# Dong's First ever TTTF Lawn Renovation 2018. (picture heavy)



## dongdong (Mar 21, 2018)

Hello lawn nuts!
Thank you for visiting!
Been a reading a lot on this forum and decided to finally post!

Tips and advice is always helpful!

We recently moved into a new house in November, and we have FrankinLawn. The lawn is a currently a mixture of fescue, Bermuda, bent grass, kyllinga, poa, nutsedge, and a mixture of a bunch of other weeds.

I'm in Sacramento, CA zone 10a.

I have about 3800 sq ft of grass. 
2,220 sq ft in the front yard.
1,660 sq ft in the back yard.

This is my first time with a lawn. it's spotty. due to the summer heat, i have nice seat stressed spots. (tried watering it, but don't think it's coming back.)
pictures of lawn:
Front yard:

































Backyard

















My wife today, finally gave me the green light to renovate! 
This will be my first lawn renovation! (prey for me, this feels real intimidating)
I have been watering deep, fert thrown down on the major holidays, and a soil test has been performed in february. 
Soil test: (before me doing anything)








My first ever soil test!
The lawn is pretty acidic. I have thrown down lime apps to help with it

4/26/18 Pennington fast acting lime @ 6 lbs per k
5/5/18 Milo app
6/25/18 Milo App
7/10/18 Grub preventer

Log:
10/22 Big update! Have been pretty busy so I haven't had time to update my journal.
Next week will be officially 1 month since i threw down seed. going to do the first cut next week. or should i wait a little bit longer? current height is at 2 inches.

Watering has been reduced to 3 times a day @ 5 mins per zone to keeping soil moist.

10/14: Racoons came looking for worms / grubs... destroyed a nice section of the reno  also looks like i have a creaping charlie problem starting...








10/3: heavy storm came, washed some seed away  also blew a lot of leaves onto the grass... (couldnt get to it without stepping on grass so i left them)









10/2: GERMINATION!!! HALLEJUAH!! The first 2 weeks I was starting to panic. I though i messed up some how LOL.









9/22
THE BIG DAY!! (in order)
-going to uhaul to rent a trailer
-rent aerator
- aerate
lime
throw down seed
tenacity at rate or tenacity before seeding?)
milo
starter fert
roll in seed
peat moss
tackifier at slopes
water water water

9/21
neighborhood has a block party.. dont want people walking on the grass. 
deep watering probably 1" of water?

9/11
glypho crab grass in back yard.
dethatch front yard. (haven't done that yet)
going to fill in spots with soil

9/10
BLKH and BLSC.

8/31
Glypho spot spray

8/27
sprayed BLKH and BLSC. not sure if it works, but why not?

8/25
Scalped front yard, broke a sprinkler head, Doh!

8/22/18
glypho spot spray again with blue marker

lawn is about 96% dead.

bought a new mower!!! $400 for an hrx217vka!.. now what should i do with my troy bilt??









update photos:









































8/17: glypho spot sprayed with vinegar

8/15/18
Lawn Scalped

8/12/18
lawn is slowly dying off. Looks like i either missed some spots, or i have something that glyphosate can't kill.

also, i have a BIG kyllinga problem. i ordered more sedgehammer, hopefully that'll arrive soon!

8/10/18
Glycosate app #2 down!

8/9/18
soil test came in!









it looks like my PH is still low, thinking about applying an app of lime after i aerate.

my copper is through the roof! any ideas how this can happen?

my lawn is slowy turning yellow, will probably apply another app of glyphosate tomorrow

8/6/18 sedgehammer down. I 1 packet

8/4/18 glyphosate down.. hurry up and die!

8/3/18
did the soil test and sent it in! going to glyphosate tomorrow!

8/2/18
Seed and soil test came in!


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Looks like you've been here for a while, so maybe I should say, welcome to posting at TLF  :thumbup:

A couple of comments:



dongdong said:


> The lawn is a currently a mixture of fescue, Bermuda, bent grass, kyllinga, poa, nutsedge, and a mixture of a bunch of other weeds.


That is a really difficult mix. Those weeds are hard to control.

The slopes in the front lawn will be a challenge. You will fight with the seed washing out. I used a tackifier on my slopes
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200675391_200675391?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Lawn%20%2B%20Garden%20%3E%20Lawn%20Spreaders&utm_campaign=TurboTurf&utm_content=57662&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI77uQiZnH3AIVA1gNCh2naAQJEAYYASABEgLFBfD_BwE. Other forum members have been using other tackifiers that may be easier to apply, but I don't remember the details at the moment.

What are you going to seed? fescue?

I have no business commenting on your soil test, but I will note that your potassium looks very low. I just want to make you aware that you may need to supplement. I use MOP (0-0-60), but SOP (0-0-50) is preferable if you can find it. Wait for someone else to comment here on your soil needs.

I'd recommend using peat moss to cover the seed if you do a renovation.

One reason to overseed now and renovate later is to get more experience caring for your lawn (e.g., applying pre-M, water coverage, mowing schedules). A renovation that involves killing those weeds and dealing with those slopes would be a challenge for anyone, regardless of experience. Not to mention the fact that you are in CA (not sure how much temps will be an issue).

If you renovate, how may glyphosate apps are you planning?


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## dongdong (Mar 21, 2018)

Thank you so much for your input! Yeah my soil test isn't exactly the best, but I have thrown down some milo and lime since then, I'm waiting for the soil test to come back to see what my current values are.

For my potassium, can I apply it when seeding?

I will be seeding a tttf blend, not sure which one yet from seed superstore.

I do plan on using a Tackifier and peat moss.

For glyphosate, I'm planning on doing two apps (possibly more) . First one, wait a couple weeks (gotta look at label).

I would love more people to chime in if possible,


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

Do you have irrigation? If not, do you have a plan to keep the whole yard moist for 2-3 weeks?

If you do decide to renovate you want to water after each app and see what comes back, then spray again, water, etc. You're basically watering to try and encourage and get up as many weeds as you can so you can kill them before seeding. With bermuda, I would start killing sooner and make sure you get it all. Also keep in mind the dormant grass will not be killed by the glypho, the grass needs to be actively growing.

If there were no bermuda I would say an overseed would be all you need..


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

dongdong said:


> For my potassium, can I apply it when seeding?


Yes, you can. In fact, potassium will likely be included in the fertilizer if you apply a starter fertilizer or a balanced fertilizer. But the issue of how much to apply to correct your deficiency is tricky and is not my area of expertise, so I cannot advise. Regardless, you usually want to avoid applying more than one pound of any nutrient over the course of a month. I would _guess_ that you will need to do multiple potassium applications over the year, in addition to what you are adding with your starter fert.



dongdong said:


> For glyphosate, I'm planning on doing two apps (possibly more) . First one, wait a couple weeks (gotta look at label).


Glyphosate will likely not help with the nutsedge. Look into Sedgehammer or another product specifically for nutsedge. Also, glyphosate may knock out the bermuda this season, but there's a good chance some of it will return next year. There are several strategies for dealing with bermuda that you may want to look into.


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## dongdong (Mar 21, 2018)

jessehurlburt said:


> Do you have irrigation? If not, do you have a plan to keep the whole yard moist for 2-3 weeks?


Yes! I do have irrigation. I recently changed the pop up sprinker heads to the new rainbird RVAN sprinkler heads. they are so much better than my old mist ones!



social port said:


> dongdong said:
> 
> 
> > For my potassium, can I apply it when seeding?
> ...


alright. I will probaby deal with the nutsedge after the overseeding, i'm not sure though.

i got my soil test today! Going to do the test then glyphoste tomorrow!


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## dongdong (Mar 21, 2018)

Got my soil test results in!










it looks like my PH is still low, thinking about applying an app of lime after i aerate.

my copper is through the roof! any ideas how this can happen?

my lawn is slowy turning yellow.. Wish the glyphosate was was faster acting! will probably apply another app of glyphosate tomorrow.


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## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

OK, so i'll chime in with somethings here.

Lime: Careful with the lime you are throwing down. I know the Pennington's lime has Mg in it. You don't want to add more MG than what you have already. You will want to add straight calcium which will help you get that PH up without adding more MG. To much MG will lead to an imbalance and turn the soil into a brick.

Avoid starter fert at this point if you can. Starter ferts come with a higher P ratio than N or K. IE 18-24-9. Get a fertilizer that has no P in it. like a 29-0-5. You can supplement more potassium (K) if needed. FYI, you don't need to get that exact ratio i listed, just something with no phosphorus (P). All fertilizers are listed in a N-P-K lineup. Like a Ringer Lawn restore if you want to go Organic or the Scotts Turf Builder (they typically have no Phos).

Now if i'm remembering right, with the soil savy test it's showing you what's available at your current PH. so as you raise the PH you'll unlock more minerals to the plants, so that P number could go even higher! And P will hang around a while in the soil. It's doesn't move very fast.

Peat. Yea, thrower down! It's just good insurance to help keep those little grass babies happy and damp! Plus it hides the seed from the birds, and helps to aid seed to soil contact. Only go about 1/8" - 1/4" of peat. Don't want them to struggle too much to reach the sunlight when they germinate.


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## dongdong (Mar 21, 2018)

LawnNerd said:


> OK, so i'll chime in with somethings here.
> 
> Lime: Careful with the lime you are throwing down. I know the Pennington's lime has Mg in it. You don't want to add more MG than what you have already. You will want to add straight calcium which will help you get that PH up without adding more MG. To much MG will lead to an imbalance and turn the soil into a brick.
> 
> Avoid starter fert at this point if you can. Starter ferts come with a higher P ratio than N or K. IE 18-24-9. Get a fertilizer that has no P in it. like a 29-0-5. You can supplement more potassium (K) if needed. FYI, you don't need to get that exact ratio i listed, just something with no phosphorus (P). All fertilizers are listed in a N-P-K lineup. Like a Ringer Lawn restore if you want to go Organic or the Scotts Turf Builder (they typically have no Phos).


Thank you LawnNerd for chiming in! I have a couple of questions:

What's a good product to use instead of dolomite lime to increase my Ph?

starter fert: Darn! i just bought a bag. i'll look into a different kind of fertilizer for the seeds.


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## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

You can get straight calcitic lime. I use a southern states for theirs, but I'm not sure if they're in cali. Name to look for is solu-cal. Stuff i get is Solu-cal just bagged for southern states.


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## dongdong (Mar 21, 2018)

Glyphosate is working! killed off most of the lawn, but there are still some green spots. (not sure if i missed the area or if its a super anti glyphosate grass.)

turns out, i have a lot of kyllinga in the yard. Ordered more sedge hammer.

Picked up some milo as well (it was on sale)

I was wondering when can i start scalping the lawn down? the home depot glyphosate said i can mow after 7 days, But i thought i needed long pieces of grass so it can absorb the glyphosate???

i'm still watering deep, twice a week, 1/2 inch per watering. is this the optimal watering for getting everything to germinate?

also, I'm thinking about applying soil conditioner and kelp help. would this be a waste of product if I applied it now? (i'm still planning to mechanically aerate)

Once again, I am super grateful for everyone helping and giving their opinions during my reno!

photos:
front:








All that green in the middle, KYLLINGA :evil: :evil: :evil: 









Backyard: (bad picture)


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## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

The turf that isn't dying (not the kylinga but the other fine stuff) looks like fine fescue. It's tough to kill in the heat since it's semi dormant. Try if you can, spray early morning (like 7am early), but the heat wave y'all are about to get out there won't help much. Or you could spray the same morning you water, just wait till the leaves are mostly dry

I'd think about scalping that soon. Once it flops over, you're gonna have a heck of time getting it out. When you scalp, bag it out.

You can apply soil conditioners and kelp, but do it after you get the kill and have scalped it out. It'll help it to work into the soil better, instead of getting lodged in all that dead grass.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Welcome to the forum! I'll add some comments, and answer a few of your questions:

1. Sta-Green Rapid Lime is Solu-Cal, as mentioned above. You can pick up at Lowes - throw down the entire bag (it covers 5k sq feet, you can use it all)

2. Are you adding anything into your glyphosate/Round-Up? What percentage are you using? The kill doesn't look too good after 2 applications. If you are using 41% glypho, 2 oz/gal should be enough. You should add a surfactant, NIS preferred but since you are killing everything you can use dish soap. 1 oz per gallon. If you want to speed up the kill, add 0.5 oz vinegal into the cocktail as well and spray in the morning. Vinegar makes toast out of foliage in direct sunlight.

3. I would scalp it in the evening, bag everything and throw away, and spray the glypho cocktail the following morning. The more stress you put on the remaining plants the easier they will be to kill - plus cutting the blades opens up the cuticles and the chemical can get right in and begin translocating to the roots.

4. Have you done the screwdriver test on the areas that were crispy brown before you glypho'd? Now is the time before you seed to address any issues hidden beneath the soil - large rocks, concrete waste, etc.

Best of luck to you :beer:


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## dongdong (Mar 21, 2018)

Thank you for you input!



Jconnelly6b said:


> 1. Sta-Green Rapid Lime is Solu-Cal, as mentioned above. You can pick up at Lowes - throw down the entire bag (it covers 5k sq feet, you can use it all)
> 
> 2. Are you adding anything into your glyphosate/Round-Up? What percentage are you using? The kill doesn't look too good after 2 applications. If you are using 41% glypho, 2 oz/gal should be enough. You should add a surfactant, NIS preferred but since you are killing everything you can use dish soap. 1 oz per gallon. If you want to speed up the kill, add 0.5 oz vinegal into the cocktail as well and spray in the morning. Vinegar makes toast out of foliage in direct sunlight.
> 
> ...


1. okay i'll see if they have some. trying to find lime in CA is strangely difficult... They do not carry lime at my lowes or home depot. I'm near a SiteOne (use to be john deer?) and they don't carry Lime as well.. Imaybe i'm not looking hard enough??

2. i am using the Home depothttps://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-2-5-Gal-Weed-and-Grass-Killer-Concentrate-77760/206643925 at the recommended rate for lawn reno 2.5 oz per gallon. I am using a NIS with it too. Never thought about using vinegar!

3. ill scalp tonight and glypho tomorrow morning!

4. yeah, i've poked in random places. so far no big rocks!

Thank you, everyone, for their input! i really appreciate it!


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## Koster (Jun 29, 2018)

@dongdong You might try looking at a local landscape supply store or tractor supply in your area.

Not sure if this will work for your application but maybe others can chime in?

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/waukesha-lime-barnlime-50-lb-bag?cm_vc=-10005


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## jocoxVT (Apr 25, 2018)

You mentioned you applied the glyphosate per HD's instructions, you kept the concentrate to 300 square feet/gallon? I am about to do the same thing and was really trying to stretch a gallon further to avoid so many refills of the sprayer.


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## dongdong (Mar 21, 2018)

jocoxVT said:


> You mentioned you applied the glyphosate per HD's instructions, you kept the concentrate to 300 square feet/gallon? I am about to do the same thing and was really trying to stretch a gallon further to avoid so many refills of the sprayer.


Yeah its 2.5 oz per gallon. per 300 sq ft. Make sure to use a surfactant! it helps!


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## dongdong (Mar 21, 2018)

update! Lawn is about 97% dead.
There are some spots of fine fescue, and fescue that are in shady spots that are just not dying!!! I'm going to try to hit it with a high concentration of glypho and vinegar app again.

who knew i can stripe dead grass?? LOL


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

The plants have to be actively growing to be killed by herbicides. Try watering the fescue spots for next two days and get them to come out of dormancy. Then hit with last app of glypho. That should get them.

Rest of the lawn looks nice and crispy!


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## dongdong (Mar 21, 2018)

BUMP! So the lawn is dead! yay! Crabgrass has emerged in the backyard. I will spray it tomorrow. going to dethatch front yard as well.

tentative plan: 
9/22 SEED DOWN!!
-going to uhaul to rent a trailer
-rent aerator
- aerate
throw down seed
tenacity at rate or tenacity before seeding?
milo
starter fert
roll in seed
peat moss
tackifier at slopes
water water water

9/21
neighborhood has a block party.. dont want people walking on the grass. so i'll seed 9/22
deep watering probably 1" of water? after party.

9/20
deep watering the night of

does this sound about right?


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

I wouldn't worry about the people walking on the seed, but you may be exhausted by that evening anyway.

If you can find starter fert with weed preventer, it's got mesotrione in it which is the same as Tenacity. Then you can skip all the work in Tenacity.


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## dongdong (Mar 21, 2018)

Finished the renovation!!!

9/23
Core aerated the lawn, was only able to do a single pass.. the chain on the aerator broke off... HD gave me a full refund!
the aerator wasn't too bad, hardest part was engaging and disengaging the spikes.

grass seed spread @ 8lbs /k
starter fert down @ rate
milo down @ rate
tenacity sprayed.
peat moss down - biggest pain in the butt! I tried to spread it with a rake, it was on too thick so i had to hand sprinkle it in. HD did not have a compost spreader.

finished the front, was too tired to finish the peat moss in the back. did it the next morning.

watering schedule: 8am 11am, 2pm, 4 pm., back: 9am, 12pm, 3pm. 5 pm. all all zones 10 mins each.

now the hard part, waiting for seeds to sprout and hoping i didnt mess anything up!


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## dongdong (Mar 21, 2018)

10/22 Big update! Have been pretty busy so I haven't had time to update my journal.
Next week will be officially 1 month since i threw down seed. going to do the first cut next week. or should i wait a little bit longer? current height is at 2 inches.

Watering has been reduced to 3 times a day @ 5 mins per zone to keeping soil moist.

10/14: Racoons came looking for worms / grubs... destroyed a nice section of the reno  also looks like i have a creaping charlie problem starting...








10/3: heavy storm came, washed some seed away  also blew a lot of leaves onto the grass... (couldnt get to it without stepping on grass so i left them)









10/2: GERMINATION!!! HALLEJUAH!! The first 2 weeks I was starting to panic. I though i messed up some how LOL.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

dongdong said:


> going to do the first cut next week. or should i wait a little bit longer? current height is at 2 inches.


That's mostly TTTF, right? Personally, I would hold out until 3 inches (really, I like to push it a little beyond that, but I keep my grass high, and I hesitate to offer that as a recommendation).

If you have a leafblower, you could blow the leaves off at this point. I'm assuming that most of the seed has germinated by now.

Without knowing your current temps, I would suggest backing your watering down--longer watering times with less frequency. It is time to begin asking your little babies to dive deeper to get water. Gradual step-down is the basic idea.
You're also going to need the soil to dry up a bit before you mow. You don't want to be out there if it is too mushy.

Raccoons and other pests sully renos all the time. You have my sympathies.


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