# RGS Alternative?



## cfinden

Hi guys,

I've been dying to try a few N-ext products, but I'm not able to get them in Canada.

SeedWorldUSA will ship to Canada and I found the following product:
https://www.seedworldusa.com/products/launch-plant-nutrient-supplement-2-5-gallons

Anyone used this before?

It looks good, price is decent.

$59.77 USD for 2.5 Gallons

Rate of use: 29-32 fl. oz./1000 sq. ft.

Guaranteed analysis:
1.00% Soluble Potash
0.36% Iron (chelated)
74.00% Manure extract
0.70% Humic acid derived from leonardite
1.00% Ascophylum dodosum (kelp extract; microbe food)
0.36% Modified polysiloxane surfactant


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## slomo

Looks like it's full of good stuff. One thing is 32oz app rate for 1,000 SF. Hope your lawn isn't large. I would say go for it and see. Not going to hurt anything. Looks like a nice alternative. On 7,000SF, probably the same price as a single app of MIlorganite. :lol:

slomo


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## cfinden

@slomo Haha ya guess it won't hurt. I was reading some of your posts where you recommended a granular humic acid that was 70% humic. I don't know how to calculate these kind of things but this product says 0.7% humic acid, so if I put down 32oz/M does that mean I'm getting 2.24oz/M of humic? How does that compare to your granular? And what benefits do you notice from application? Do you also put down fulvic? Thanks man.


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## Spammage

cfinden said:


> @slomo Haha ya guess it won't hurt. I was reading some of your posts where you recommended a granular humic acid that was 70% humic. I don't know how to calculate these kind of things but this product says 0.7% humic acid, so if I put down 32oz/M does that mean I'm getting 2.24oz/M of humic? How does that compare to your granular? And what benefits do you notice from application? Do you also put down fulvic? Thanks man.


If the product is really .7% humic, then you are only applying .224oz/M. The recommended rate for Anderson's Humic DG 2 lbs/M @ 70% which is 22.4 oz/M. I'm not saying the product you referenced isn't any good, but if you want a good humic source, your money would be better spent elsewhere.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

With 74% manure extract, maybe this product is more of a compost tea which you could produce yourself or just spread compost instead. Personally, I'd prefer a different product especially at this price point.


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## slomo

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> With 74% manure extract, maybe this product is more of a compost tea which you could produce yourself or just spread compost instead. Personally, I'd prefer a different product especially at this price point.


That's up to you sir. The mentioned Canadian product also has other ingredients too. Sounds like the OP doesn't have access to other products. Just checked his subject line, said alternative.

slomo


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## SNOWBOB11

As mentioned that humic % is very low. I believe kelp4less will ship to canada. Might want to look into there humic acid. I'm probably going to order from them next year.


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## cfinden

@slomo Thank you. It's interesting, humic and fulvic acids aren't banned in Canada (or at least not in my province) because I can buy a bottle of humic or fulvic from my local hydroponic store (these stores target people growing cannabis) ironically because it's not even legal yet. Anyways the prices at these stores is ridiculous and even less value than the link I posted.

@SNOWBOB11 I looked into kelp4less, I'm thinking of placing an order over the winter to get ready for spring. What do you think about: http://www.gardenerspantry.ca/ ? They're much closer to me and I've heard good things from other Canadians.


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## SNOWBOB11

@cfinden I don't see anything wrong with gardens pantry. There humic looks to be 80% so that is good and the price isn't too bad. I don't see them list fulvic acid but I might be missing it? I'd probably want to combine the ha with the fulvic and kelp. For just humic though I think you'd be fine using the garden pantry one.


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## Wlodyd

I just purchased from Kelp4Less for the first time, made the "Kelp Help" recipe with Kelp Extract and Humic Acid, I added 1 part Fulvic Acid per 2 parts Humic Acid to mimic the RGS label. Product was affordable, shipped super fast and mixed and sprayed very easy. I can't speak on any results yet as I just put down my first app on Monday but I basically have an equivalent solution of 6% Humic Acid, 3% Kelp Extract, and 3% Fulvic Acid. I spent like $60 and I have enough for 4 gallons of concentrate (and enough Kelp for 16 gallons).


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## samjonester

Wlodyd said:


> I just purchased from Kelp4Less for the first time, made the "Kelp Help" recipe with Kelp Extract and Humic Acid, I added 1 part Fulvic Acid per 2 parts Humic Acid to mimic the RGS label. Product was affordable, shipped super fast and mixed and sprayed very easy. I can't speak on any results yet as I just put down my first app on Monday but I basically have an equivalent solution of 6% Humic Acid, 3% Kelp Extract, and 3% Fulvic Acid. I spent like $60 and I have enough for 4 gallons of concentrate (and enough Kelp for 16 gallons).


Mind posting that recipe? What was your application rate and method?


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## cfinden

@Wlodyd that sounds perfect.

I found this product at Kelp4Less, but it doesn't have details regarding percentages of each.

https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/fulvic-humic-kelp-blend/


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## Suburban Jungle Life

cfinden said:


> @Wlodyd that sounds perfect.
> 
> I found this product at Kelp4Less, but it doesn't have details regarding percentages of each.
> 
> https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/fulvic-humic-kelp-blend/


According to @XiolaOne, the mix rates are in this thread.



XiolaOne said:


> Best is what k4l told me the strength was:
> 
> At 1 pound per gallon it will make a 6% humic, 3% fulvic, 12% amino acid solution


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## Wlodyd

Here's the baseline recipes I used, and as I mentioned I add 1 part Fulvic Acid for every 2 parts Humic Acid. So for the recipe in the link below I added 4 ounces of Fulvic Acid. There's also a recipe for an Air8 equivalent, but I think the cost of the ingredients wasn't all that much in excess of just purchasing the real product. But good if you can't get it in Canada,

https://aroundtheyard.com/index.php...and-kelp-help-plus-humates&catid=9&Itemid=117

Recipe below for 2 gallons for quick reference:
-8 oz (by weight) Humic Acid soluble https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/humic-acid/
-4 oz (by weight) Fulvic Acid https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/fulvic-acid/
-4 fluid oz Liquid Kelp Extract https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/liquid-kelp-extract/

Add to 2 gallons of tap water and mix and voila!

I applied at a rate of 2 oz per 1000 per the recommendation in the link above. But I'm going to be applying every two weeks to spoon feed tho. I assume you could go up to 6 oz per 1000 without any issues, but I need to do some math on the concentrations to confirm % volume. I'll try to do that and post an update here. Watch the video that's in the Humic Acid link above, I believe he makes a 6% HA solution, so just scale that as appropriate.

I picked up a couple 2.5 gallon F-Style jugs from US Plastics Corp, they were the cheapest I could find and I got it in like two days (but I'm in Ohio): https://www.usplastic.com/search/default.aspx?it=item&keyword=F-style jugs

You'll have leftover Kelp Extract for future batches and I purchased the 16 oz of Fulvic Acid as cost per oz was much cheaper. So when I'm through my 2 gallons I'll just need to pick up some more HA and I'll have another 2 gallons! Watch for "sales" on the HA and FA at Kelp4less, particularly if you buy more (economy of scale). Is it a huge difference than purchasing directly? no, it's not. But you can definitely save some more money with a little diligence, and with 3 young kids myself, $40 savings on my "dirt" is a big deal to the wife.


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## Wlodyd

And to follow-up, I followed that recipe a bit blindly, and per the mix rates in the posted thread you'll want to increase some of the concentrations to get an RGS clone.

That fulvic/humic/kelp blend looks like it'll work great. You can mix and match, and use whatever you want. I'm an advocate of following label directions, or some more proven recipes I've found,


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## Wlodyd

So here's the math to calculate any concentration:

% concentration = mass (grams) of solute / 100ml solution
1 oz = 28.35 grams
1 gal = 3785.41 ml

The HA you buy from K4L is 80% HA, so in 8 oz of soluble HA powder you actually have 6.4 oz of HA

So to make 1 gallon of a 6% solution of HA you need:

Humic Acid:
6% = HA / 3785.41 ml
HA = 227.12 grams = 8 oz

So you need 8 oz of actual Humic Acid per 1 gallon to get a 6% solution. Since that product I linked to is only 80% HA, you need 10 oz of the soluble HA product per gallon to get a 6% solution. The Fulvic Acid is 75% FA, so you would need the below for a 3% solution:

Fulvic Acid:
3% = FA / 3785.41 ml
FA = 113.56 grams = 4 oz

So you need 5.3 oz of soluble FA product.

So to make a 1 gal RGS clone recipe, I think the above numbers need to be bumped up (or just use 1 gal water). I think would look something like this:

RGS Clone Recipe:
-10 oz K4L Humic Acid 
-5.3 oz K4L Fulvic Acid
-4 oz liquid kelp
-1 gallon water.

Not sure about the liquid kelp concentrations. You could use the dry stuff and use 4 oz by weight for a 3% solution to mimic the RGS label. I don't think you can go wrong with these levels.... THROW 'ER DOWN!

I am no chemist, so trust my math with a grain of salt. But it seems to check out.... feel free to correct me!


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## Wlodyd

I think your best bet is to purchase the 5 lbs of the Fulvic / Humic / Kelp Blend ($60) and make a concentrate at 1lb per gallon of water.

Then apply at 2-3 oz per 1000 sq ft.

After doing all my math that's what I wish I had done! Live and learn....


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## Harts

@cfinden I used the liquid HA from Gardeners Pantry this year. Can't speak to the results as I only did two apps but I'll continue to use it next year.


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## Phaseshift

anyone know where I can get these in liquid form?


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## SoilSecrets

I've had some success with this soil amendment product from LESCO....it was a joint venture with Mirimichi Green to bring this product to market.


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## Phaseshift

SoilSecrets said:


> I've had some success with this soil amendment product from LESCO....it was a joint venture with Mirimichi Green to bring this product to market.


can't seem to find the % of each ingredient


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## SoilSecrets

Mostly like a liquid biochar carbon product with 5% humic, 5% kelp and small amount of Iron, .75% I think.


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## cglarsen

Wlodyd said:


> I think your best bet is to purchase the 5 lbs of the Fulvic / Humic / Kelp Blend ($60) and make a concentrate at 1lb per gallon of water.
> 
> Then apply at 2-3 oz per 1000 sq ft.
> 
> After doing all my math that's what I wish I had done! Live and learn....


Will be trying this exact application today. Good work figuring out a cost-effective alternative!


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## rjjrmiller

cglarsen said:


> Wlodyd said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think your best bet is to purchase the 5 lbs of the Fulvic / Humic / Kelp Blend ($60) and make a concentrate at 1lb per gallon of water.
> 
> Then apply at 2-3 oz per 1000 sq ft.
> 
> After doing all my math that's what I wish I had done! Live and learn....
> 
> 
> 
> Will be trying this exact application today. Good work figuring out a cost-effective alternative!
Click to expand...

Ordering the humic, fulivic, kelp blend. Price is right and its available to Canada.

Any feedback? Amazing how effective the youtube influencers are at creating hype on RGS.


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## cglarsen

@rjjrmiller The powder blend makes an extremely dark concentrate and should last me at least 2-3 seasons for $65. Mixes well but there will be some gummy particles that I usually filter out. I lableled the jug "RGS Clone" - good enough for me.


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## rjjrmiller

cglarsen said:


> @rjjrmiller The powder blend makes an extremely dark concentrate and should last me at least 2-3 seasons for $65. Mixes well but there will be some gummy particles that I usually filter out. I lableled the jug "RGS Clone" - good enough for me.


Are you able to smell the kelp? Hopefully a strong unpleasant smell?
The "gummy" part can be easily cleaned from a pressure sprayer? Or hose end spray only?

Still sounds good.


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## cglarsen

rjjrmiller said:


> cglarsen said:
> 
> 
> 
> @rjjrmiller The powder blend makes an extremely dark concentrate and should last me at least 2-3 seasons for $65. Mixes well but there will be some gummy particles that I usually filter out. I lableled the jug "RGS Clone" - good enough for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you able to smell the kelp? Hopefully a strong unpleasant smell?
> The "gummy" part can be easily cleaned from a pressure sprayer? Or hose end spray only?
> 
> Still sounds good.
Click to expand...

Not a strong odor but some present. The gummy stuff rinses off easily but it will clog a handheld sprayer accumulating in the pump sump. I was told the mix is 1/3 of each product. You may want to call and check on that as well. Could always order some straight kelp to increase the percentage of the mix. I'd be interested what they indicate to you.


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## Justmatson

@cfinden have you found/ looked at the products that biofert.ca has?
http://www.biofert.ca/products/liquid-fertilizers


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## Pologuy

SoilSecrets said:


> I've had some success with this soil amendment product from LESCO....it was a joint venture with Mirimichi Green to bring this product to market.


What are your thoughts on the product?


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## corneliani

SoilSecrets said:


> I've had some success with this soil amendment product from LESCO....it was a joint venture with Mirimichi Green to bring this product to market.


$135/gal ??


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## ksturfguy

corneliani said:


> SoilSecrets said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've had some success with this soil amendment product from LESCO....it was a joint venture with Mirimichi Green to bring this product to market.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $135/gal ??
Click to expand...

I thought the same thing. My local farm and home store has it and its about the same price. I was surprised at the price. Makes the N-EXT products look cheap


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## cfinden

@Justmatson I've looked at their site a couple times, looks like good stuff, do you have a BC source/distributor? You tried it?

I've been using Black Earth granular humic from Alberta, $16 for a 50lb bag


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## Justmatson

cfinden said:


> @Justmatson I've looked at their site a couple times, looks like good stuff, do you have a BC source/distributor? You tried it?
> 
> I've been using Black Earth granular humic from Alberta, $16 for a 50lb bag


I haven't tried it yet.

How do you like the granular humic?
I'm using the 24% liquid stuff from growers supplies.

In the fall I'm probably going to try a few different products from Brettyoung. The algae green and the redox c-85


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## ricwilli

Wlodyd said:


> I think your best bet is to purchase the 5 lbs of the Fulvic / Humic / Kelp Blend ($60) and make a concentrate at 1lb per gallon of water.
> 
> Then apply at 2-3 oz per 1000 sq ft.
> 
> After doing all my math that's what I wish I had done! Live and learn....


Anyone using or looking to use this on their lawn?


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## lawnphix

The best Kelp4less equivalent is Extreme Blend. RGS is 6% humic acid, and 3% each fulvic acid and sea kelp. 0.5 ounces (14 grams) per gallon per 1,000 is nearly identical to RGS. There's also Liquid Gold which is like their Triple Threat (and more) in liquid form.

I have a spreadsheet here that breaks most of those N-Ext products down into Kelp4less equivalents.


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## ricwilli

WOW!!! That spreadsheet is extremely informative. Thanks for sharing.

Question. Can Green Lawn and Turf be a substitute for RGS? I was also thinking about purchasing Extreme Blend for my trees and bushes. Would it be a redundant purchase?


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## lawnphix

Green Lawn & Turf is Extreme Blend with extra Humic acid, and an addition of molasses powder and iron. I buy both - Extreme Blend for my ornamentals and GL&T for my lawn.

They're also coming out with more blends in about 1-2 weeks... a la Dethatch, Aeration, and some others.


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## Theycallmemrr

I made my own RGS alternative(Humic Acid, Fulvic Acid and Sea Kelp) and I got a bacterial bloom in the container. What would cause this?


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## lawnphix

Theycallmemrr said:


> I made my own RGS alternative(Humic Acid, Fulvic Acid and Sea Kelp) and I got a bacterial bloom in the container. What would cause this?


How long did you let that sit before you saw this? Was the container clean?


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## rjjrmiller

The container is completely clear so if you didn't store it in a cool dark place that will happen and has happened to me with chunks that collected in the cheese cloth. I left it in the shed in the heat and it took less then a week to get furry mold on it. I won't risk putting it into the lawn.

I included a pretty large batch of concentrate made from Kelp4Less blend of humic, fulvic and kelp which I made last summer and filtered it 3 times in total took a day because I'd only check it every few hours, could have been sooner. I chose 3 filtrations because those granular I used to hate because they clogged my nozzel constantly. Now it's super saturated so when I add it to fresh water in the 2 gallon tank and fine silt that might be at the bottom of the concentrate will have plenty of new water to dissolve into. I also apply it heavily.

The Gardners pantry is an excellent choice and as a Canadian I never had an issue. Specifically the liquid humic is incredible and won't clog and saves all the filtering time....but the cost difference is huge, I went through my liquid stuff way to fast but it's such a joy to use and it is certified organic. Maybe I can order.the 2l liquid humic and save some money that way.
I posted the moldy Kelp4Less stuff twice, is there any way to salvage it, maybe if I boil it


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## ricwilli

I'm planning on making my batch as I needed. I've read somewhere, where the concentrate batch has gone bad in about a week.


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## Theycallmemrr

lawnphix said:


> Theycallmemrr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I made my own RGS alternative(Humic Acid, Fulvic Acid and Sea Kelp) and I got a bacterial bloom in the container. What would cause this?
> 
> 
> 
> How long did you let that sit before you saw this? Was the container clean?
Click to expand...

@lawnphix 
I let it sit in a cool garage maybe a week or two. The container was purchased new and put immediately into use. I did not clean it out before using it.

Maybe I should keep the jug inside next time and sterilize it before I make the next batch? I have not heard of Greene Co. RGS doing this when kept in the garage.


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## ricwilli

@lawnphix Are the mixing instructions on your spreadsheet for concentration mixes?
For example, N-Ext Greenpunch instructions calls for 16oz per 1ksqft. Would i use 16oz of the 1 gallon mix you have on your spreadsheet?


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## lawnphix

ricwilli said:


> @lawnphix Are the mixing instructions on your spreadsheet for concentration mixes?
> For example, N-Ext Greenpunch instructions calls for 16oz per 1ksqft. Would i use 16oz of the 1 gallon mix you have on your spreadsheet?


Check the 'All in One Table' tab. In this case you'd mix the listed ingredients and it would be about 4.2 ounces by weight per gallon per 1,000. That would be almost dead-nuts to what is in 18-0-1.

I took the weight of the N-Ext gallon, then the percentages of each main ingredient and converted that into ounces and grams.

They're releasing 6 new products next week (hopefully) that are a spin off of this spreadsheet (preview of those new products here)


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