# Aeration plus Sand vs Adding OM on Surface for Cool Season Lawns



## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

Guys, so whats the best practice to promote deep roots.

Aeration + Sand, open up clay for a path for water, nutrients and so roots can spread

Or adding Organics like soybean meal, alfalfa, leaves etc. and letting the earthworms work for you.

I guess the 3rd option is a lot of aerating(multiple times per season) with no topdressing. This option is the worst as it warrants owning an expensive piece of equipment.

Like, If I could aerate and add sand 1 time, it seems to be a lot of work but also not too bad for the long term benefits. Not sure 1 time is enough though.

Just wondering what the best payoff per work and money is.

1 other pro of aearating plus sand is it promotes a level lawn to boot.


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

I'm a big fan of aeration and topdressing with sand. I aerate at least twice a year and topdress at least 4 times a year. But I only have 2000 ft to deal with.
You have 4 times as much.


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

Shindoman said:


> I'm a big fan of aeration and topdressing with sand. I aerate at least twice a year *and topdress at least 4 times a year*. But I only have 2000 ft to deal with.
> You have 4 times as much.


im incredibly interested in your topdressing timing.


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## Drewmey (Oct 3, 2018)

Shindoman said:


> I'm a big fan of aeration and topdressing with sand. I aerate at least twice a year and topdress at least 4 times a year. But I only have 2000 ft to deal with.
> You have 4 times as much.


Sort of piggy backing off this thread...but I have always wondered if this becomes an issue after 5-10 years? Most of my lawn abuts a sidewalk, fence, driveway, etc. After 5+ years of this, are we not significantly raising the levels of our lawn? Is this not a negative side effect of adding something to your lawn 6 times a year?


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

MMoore said:


> Shindoman said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a big fan of aeration and topdressing with sand. I aerate at least twice a year *and topdress at least 4 times a year*. But I only have 2000 ft to deal with.
> ...


This year I did the first one on April 21 along with aeration verticutting and I would usually do it a week earlier but it was too wet. I'll do the second one in early June. Third one is usually beginning of August. These two are just a light dressing to help firm things up. Last one is beginning of Sept. along with another overseed. I'm only doing 1/8 to 3/16" of pure sand at a time. Remember that our grass is actively growing from late March until mid November. My goal is to have a dead flat lawn that will allow me to cut at 3/8" to 1/2.


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

Drewmey said:


> Shindoman said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a big fan of aeration and topdressing with sand. I aerate at least twice a year and topdress at least 4 times a year. But I only have 2000 ft to deal with.
> ...


Although my lawn areas do not border on any fixed height hardscape, I don't really see any change, but I've only been doing this for 3 years now. I'm only doing 1/8" or so at a time. And we have so much rain here our soil can get very compacted just from the rain. 
I think a lot of people put down too thick a layer of material when they topdress.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

That's too much work for me.  And I only have 2,500 SF. I like to use a soil conditioner instead.

I spray with humic, kelp, SLES (baby shampoo) and a glob or three of molasses. The molasses feeds the microbes which earthworms seem to love. The shampoo opens up the soil (and smells great.) Kelp is a fertilizer, and humic is nothing more than pulverized carbon for water retention.

I do this every weekend or so.

I mulch in anything that is brown or woody like dried leaves and shrub trimmings.

It works for me, anyway.

B


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

BXMurphy said:


> I spray with humic, kelp, SLES (baby shampoo) and a glob or three of molasses. The molasses feeds the microbes which earthworms seem to love. The shampoo opens up the soil (and smells great.) Kelp is a fertilizer, and humic is nothing more than pulverized carbon for water retention.


This is what I've done in the past but want something a bit more permenant so that these applications go feom 4-6 times a year to 1-2.

Do you apply with hose end or backpack? 
Do you water in after?


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Thick n Dense said:


> This is what I've done in the past but want something a bit more permenant so that these applications go feom 4-6 times a year to 1-2.
> 
> Do you apply with hose end or backpack?
> Do you water in after?


I suppose a lot depends on your soil. If you can't do anything with it... you can't do anything with it.

I lucked out with some pretty good soil and environment to begin with. If I were living in a desert, the effort required to grow grass would not be worth the effort.

I don't know your area but it seems to me that it might be going overboard loosening up what might be perfectly acceptable soil. Also, all that banging around might be counter-productive.

Aerating does a lot of damage - more than merely walking on it or playing a game of baseball or something. Adding sand smothers grass. You might be preventing a nice turf from taking over. Only you will know.

I was concerned about someone adding all that sand. 1/8 of an inch four times a year raises the grade a half inch. Over five years on my small lot and I would have made a 2.5 inch change. On my lot, puddles would be forming around the house. 

Anyway, for me, I just get out there in the good weather and spray it down with a hose-end sprayer. I don't water it in. I let the grass soak it all in. For me, it's relaxing.

I used to worry about accurate measurements of all the additives but this is pretty benign stuff.

I made concentrates of the humid and kelp. 100 grams to the gallon mixes up pretty well. Maybe 50 grams of SLES to the gallon. I put... I dunno... just under a half each of the humid and kelp into the sprayer bottle and top off with SLES and finish with a couple of globs of molasses. I set the sprayer to mix in the maximum amount of water. I might go over the lawn a couple of times. Maybe I should calibrate but... meh...

I have earthworms everywhere - to the point of becoming annoying. Their castings stick to your shoes like dog poo.

Murph


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

BXMurphy said:


> Thick n Dense said:
> 
> 
> > This is what I've done in the past but want something a bit more permenant so that these applications go feom 4-6 times a year to 1-2.
> ...


Dog poo line had me rolling...

I just prefer a backpack sprayer but tend to skip the watering in part.

My mix doesn't have molases, got some in this week though so need to try out.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Thick n Dense said:


> I just prefer a backpack sprayer but tend to skip the watering in part.


Gee, I don't think you are going to get enough of that conditioner down to have any impact. I bought one-pound bags of powder of each and it's taking me three years to get through those bags with a hose-end... on only 2,500 SF. 

But... you know... you gotta get your lawn-relaxation fix however you prefer. 

I sometimes think a lot of what we do is so much "wizardry." Another site waxed gloriously over Three Mule Team borax. "Hey, take a cup of that stuff and lightly coat a bag of Milorganite with it. Every lawn will benefit greatly!"

Indeed...

Murph


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

BXMurphy said:


> Aerating does a lot of damage - more than merely walking on it or playing a game of baseball or something. Adding sand smothers grass. You might be preventing a nice turf from taking over. Only you will know.
> 
> I was concerned about someone adding all that sand. 1/8 of an inch four times a year raises the grade a half inch. Over five years on my small lot and I would have made a 2.5 inch change. On my lot, puddles would be forming around the house


I don't agree with your comment that aeration does a lot of damage. Most people agree that it is beneficial to a nice lawn. Any damage from aeration is typically gone in a couple weeks. Also adding sand or any topdressing does not smother grass if it's done correctly. 
My theory behind topdressing so much is to firm up my turf so I can cut really short. I won't be doing this for the long term. This year and maybe next. After that most likely once a year to keep things level and flat. And I have yet to see any change in elevation in the twos areas where the lawn abuts pathways.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Shindoman said:


> My theory behind topdressing so much is to firm up my turf so I can cut really short.


Say, I was just thinking of you and looking around for a series of posts from, I think it was @wardconnor...

This member advocates "just do it" if you want to mow low. Sure, you'll be scalping and the lawn will look lousy for a while. Yes, you will go through some mower blades but everything will even out over time. Your lawn will recover and you'll be mowing low like a champion.

Ward participates regularly. Finding what I'm looking for is difficult. I hope he or somebody pops in for some help.

B


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Thick n Dense said:


> Guys, so whats the best practice to promote deep roots.


I tend to go off-topic. Sorry...

Answer: None of the above. Instead, water deeply and infrequently.

Standard measure: One inch of water once a week. Adjust as weather/soil conditions warrant.

(I think I went astray with what might have been the implied question: "Easiest way to deal with hard-packed clay soil so I can have a lush and healthy lawn.")  Ah, well...

B


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

@BXMurphy

What hose end do you use for your morallases applications?

I have the crappy chapin one that doesnt seem to ever put out enough.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Thick n Dense said:


> @BXMurphy
> 
> What hose end do you use for your morallases applications?
> 
> I have the crappy chapin one that doesnt seem to ever put out enough.


Yeah, if you are using the wet/dry one (which I use), it is not really that great. The first one worked as advertised. I wish I didn't break it. The replacement was a total disappointment. Used it once and threw it out. The third is so-so...

You will know immediately if you have a bad unit when you turn the dial to the different output settings. There is no "click" into place. Even a good unit has a soft sort of hesitation when you hit the output measurement but at least you can feel it. Bad units just have the dial pointer sort of point to a general area that is marked by the label. It is the same when you twist the face of the sprayer to change the water output spray pattern.

I use the fan spray pattern. It is uneven on all three of my units but you can't expect much from any hose-end sprayer.

The output is OK but I like the Scott's garden sprayer better. That's the one that comes with a bag of green crystal fertilizer. The Scott's sprayer is sold at every hardware store and well-stocked general-purpose garden center.

The Scott's garden sprayer is a real soaker but the pattern is too condensed for large-area coverage. I use it to get a half to a half inch of water on my 2,500 SF lawn when I need it. It takes a while but doing that is still faster than an oscillating sprinkler. (I've measured with tuna cans.)

I won't buy the the Chapin 6005 again because I'm now $60 dollars deep into cheap plastic. For that kind of money, I could have gotten a professional rig.

The most frustrating thing for me is the on/off switch. It is flashlight style but the "on" setting is slide down, the "off" is slide up. Just the opposite of what you would expect if you were turning on/off a flashlight. I always guess wrong... just when I don't need to be guessing.

More maddening, that switch is VERY stiff. You come to the edge of your lawn, forgetting that up is down and down is up, remember how the thing works, and now struggle with wet slippery fingers using two hands to shut it off.

The second frustration is the American/metric measurements and how it is labeled. I get that they need to accommodate, but it has to be frustrating for both sorts of users as it marked now.

I think the confusion comes from the fact that there are wet settings and dry settings in both measurement units all using the same scale. They try to separate the settings with different color inks but it is still a mess when you are only using it once a month. When you come back to it, you've forgetten what you figured out last month.  It's always a re-learning process such that you best not lose the instructions.

I have Chapin's battery-powered backpack sprayer. That product is amazing! I would buy THAT sprayer again!

By the way, I don't think there is anything out there for powder spraying. I was using it for powdered sulfate of potassium. When I use the SOP up, I will always turn to some sort of liquid version. I shouldn't need potassium again but just sayin'...

Murph


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

@BXMurphy

Grabbed a chameleon hose end sprayer from the BB today.

Puts out soooooo much more product ... and doesnt clog very happy with it.

Thanks for the advice of just buying a cheap one


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Whoa! Thank YOU for the pointer to Chameleon! I was kind of at a loss as to where to go next after my Chapin hose-end dies.

For others just tuning in.... I use the Chapin 63924 rechargeable backpack sprayer as well. THAT sprayer is an amazing unit and I highly, HIGHLY recommend it.

It is sturdy and works like a champ even after two years of light use. In this, my second year, It's getting a heavier workout. I'm pulling it out every 2-3 weeks and it still puts a smile on my face.


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

BXMurphy said:


> Whoa! Thank YOU for the pointer to Chameleon! I was kind of at a loss as to where to go next after my Chapin hose-end dies.
> 
> For others just tuning in.... I use the Chapin 63924 rechargeable backpack sprayer as well. THAT sprayer is an amazing unit and I highly, HIGHLY recommend it.
> 
> It is sturdy and works like a champ even after two years of light use. In this, my second year, It's getting a heavier workout. I'm pulling it out every 2-3 weeks and it still puts a smile on my face.


I love my chapin as well. Only thing left to decipher is how long it will last as I'm only going on my 2nd season.

I looked up the reciews of the chameleon and they are terrible says it started leaking and nonfixable. lol.

The setting has 8 .oz per gallon which is the highest I've ever seen. Great for soil conditioner !


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

It dawned on me just yesterday that I can just as easily use my backpack sprayer to put down what I need (or want to play with). That was a revelation!

My thinking is, for what small amount of "stuff" I put in that little bottle dangling off the end of the hose, I can just pour it into two gallons of water in the backpack and let 'er rip. What's the diff? Plus, how much fun is it to drag a hose around 8,000 SF? I know it's a drag for me over just my 2,500 SF...

Also, can you imagine how cool/weird my neighbors will think I am when I'm out there every weekend with that thing on?

This is my second season with my Chapin, too. I am going to whip it out every weekend now.

Soooo.... to bring this back on topic... are you going to aerate and sand or add organic matter to get deep roots (and/or level your lot)? 

Also, I think I had another revelation regarding organic matter in sandy soil and how it tends to compact the soil. Wonder if I should start a second thread?


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

BXMurphy said:


> It dawned on me just yesterday that I can just as easily use my backpack sprayer to put down what I need (or want to play with). That was a revelation!
> 
> My thinking is, for what small amount of "stuff" I put in that little bottle dangling off the end of the hose, I can just pour it into two gallons of water in the backpack and let 'er rip. What's the diff? Plus, how much fun is it to drag a hose around 8,000 SF? I know it's a drag for me over just my 2,500 SF...
> 
> ...


Yea but are you going to water after putting down using tour back pack sprayer? Remember that the product is a lot less dilutted and probably doesn't get to the soil without rain/irrigation...

Will the plants absorb SLS or kelp?

I think I will not aerate.

Reason being is the "root cycling effect", not sure If I buy into it 100% yet. 
It makes sens thought that good soil can be created but the thing I struggle with is clay is still clay no matter how much OM is added. 
I'd like to see a study that shows that grass creates a shit ton of roots and 50-70% of the die off adding OM.

Top dressing compost/peat is out the window as well. I'll just make good soil.

But on the flip side isn't core aeration+sand like adding a drainage system for water to get to your roots? 
To me, this is something that no amount of liquid aeration can supply.

Time will tell, if my roots do not hit four " inches next spring I may do it then.

I wish aerators werent so dang expensive, i cant justify buying one.

Wonder if I rent one in the fall and do like 5 passes if that would be enough to change the composition....


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Thick n Dense check my % of OM in my soil test over the last 4 years. I moved into a house that use the 10ft deep subsoil as the graded topsoil. I'm in Indiana clay and my roots are above 7in deep. I think aerating and compost will help OM more over time than sand.


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

g-man said:


> @Thick n Dense check my % of OM in my soil test over the last 4 years. I moved into a house that use the 10ft deep subsoil as the graded topsoil. I'm in Indiana clay and my roots are above 7in deep. I think aerating and compost will help OM more over time than sand.


So what's your routine?

Aerate how many times a year ?
Leave cores? 
Top dress alone or after aeration? 
Which aeator do you use ?

Also, I'm assuming you use Conditioner as well?

Also, If I owned an aeratorr, I'd go ham and aerate multiple times a year. 
This discussion is more of reward vs effort. I'm not questioning the affect of aeation and compost.

Also, many people say that the aerators at HD are crap. As they dont pull cores deep enough, this will make aearting for me less effective.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The routing is nitrogen and root cycling. I aerated a few sections in the spring after the first year and dropped 2 or 3 bags of compost in that area. I used a manual foot aerator from HD ($20) a day after a rain.

That's all I did.


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## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

I have a somewhat specific question along this topic. In heavy clay soil, my own foot traffic causes compaction along a narrow path along my property line (raised bed 12 inches from lot line). If I pull several cores using a ProPlugger from within this path would filling the holes with OM, sand, or a mixture be a better option? Would the large size of the ProPlugger cores be better or more detrimental than a traditional manual aerator? Overall, I would prefer OM addition, but due to the continual repeated compaction along this path I'm thinking sand may be a better option in this area. I have been heaving the soil with a digging fork along the path, but that remedy is short-lived.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Miggity said:


> I have a somewhat specific question along this topic. In heavy clay soil, my own foot traffic causes compaction along a narrow path along my property line (raised bed 12 inches from lot line).


If this were me and I knew the foot traffic will continue indefinitely, I'd be all about stepping stones. Why fight it, right?


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## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

BXMurphy said:


> Miggity said:
> 
> 
> > I have a somewhat specific question along this topic. In heavy clay soil, my own foot traffic causes compaction along a narrow path along my property line (raised bed 12 inches from lot line).
> ...


In the back or side yard I'd agree, but the path is from the front door, across the front yard and turning into the side yard. I don't want stepping stones in front. I'd do it on the side where it is actually the worst but I may already be encroaching on the neighbor. If surveyed, I would not be surprised to learn that my 12 inches from the lot line was actually less, leaving little room for stepping stone placement.


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

@Miggity

Maybe check with the warm season guys on this one. 90% of them use sand because its their native soil and the warm season grasses do fine in it.

Problem with compost is that it will continue to break down and not really provide structural support. Which is ok, but doesnt really stop compaction.

I do however think that the proplugger at 6" depth could really be a good way for getting Om down in soil but will be a lot of work to do this to an entire lawn. When I take plugs, I typically back fill with new fresh soil.

Maybe try some spots with sand and see how it goes? 
Courser the better.

I found a hand made aeartor that you push on a stick.
Seems like a better option that use the hand/step option but lost the link to the video. 
Maybe with Conditioner and rain this might be a feasible thing but would take forever.


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## 2xjtn (Nov 29, 2017)

Shindoman said:


> I'm a big fan of aeration and topdressing with sand. I aerate at least twice a year and topdress at least 4 times a year. But I only have 2000 ft to deal with.
> You have 4 times as much.


yep, me too. Lots and lots of aeration and sand here in the rainy PNW!!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Miggity I think you should sand cap the walking path. This involves placing sand on top of the clay soil/grass in 1/4in increments over time. I did this in my side yard path from the garage. The sand provides a firm walking surface that drains well.


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## LawnCreepsLtd (Sep 8, 2018)

@Thick n Dense I think you are spot on with your second option. I believe that the current trend of applying organics out of sprayers while no doubt effective, is time consuming and not quite necessary. I think by continually adding organic material from a combination(continually over time) of granular product( biosolids, alfalfa,seaweed, humates, composted chicken manure, etc), top dressing with a good compost now and again, mulching clippings/leaves etc, and consistently having material available for the soil food web, you will have a healthy soil profile/structure that supports that food web and gives you a natural self sustaining lush turf. On that same note, by refraining from the "-cides" you do not disrupt, alter, or chase away the beneficial microbiology in that soil. Team with the microbes, those earthworms and the rest of the soil food web. I would take it a step further and consider ditching or drastically reducing the synthetic fertilizer as well. Among other negative effects, when Chemically fed , plants bypass the microbial assisted method of obtaining nutrients, and the microbial populations adjust accordingly. Again this can all be accomplished by making good decisions and being a steward and partner to the soil. Knowing when and how to let it do it's thing and start to enjoy being our land and spend less time channeling our best golf coarse superintendent, constantly operating on our lawns.


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

@LawnCreepsLtd

Edit: just read my original post and realize that I have OM only as an option. Lets say that we are still interested in aeration for the sake of discussion.

So yea, no doubt. Always mulch mow and apply milo a couple times a year with usually a big app of alfalfa after the heat passes.

I'm trying ro get the most bang for my buck with limited uses of an aerator or even if I should bother.

would a 1 time aerate and fill with sand have a standing long term affect on the lawn? (Drainage, nutrients and air to roots)
The main reason I haverhis as an option is because it seems semi-permennant. Like adding a highway right to your roots that will at least last 5 years.

What about aerating 1 time every 2 years with many passes? Due to renting limitations
Would this change my soil composition? Is it even worth my time at that frequency?

I guess at this point seperating the added OM from aeration and sand are 2 seperate functions.

Also, Im still in the getting the lawn to thicken up stage, after that the amount of synthetics will go way down. But in a way, more top growth does make more clippings which thus feeding the soil system.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

So... I guess the real question is... how to grow a thick and lush lawn in clay soil, right? And right now, you are thinking that aerating and/or adding organic matter are your only options, correct?

And you're in Michigan...

Fate may have dealt you a cruel hand but I doubt it. I hear Michigan isn't all THAT bad... <wink>

It says that you only joined this forum just this month. Do you have your watering, mowing, feeding, and weeding basics down and have you been at it for a full season or two? Have you done some research on your county extension's website?

Maybe all you need is different grass because... grass can grow just about everywhere! Even Michigan, for Pete's sake. 

Maybe someone here with clay soil can give you a couple of pointers...

B


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

The mitten soil aint that bad. My lawn is thick and lush but cant get my roots to grow past 4" in depth.

I think i may dig 6 to 8 inches and see where the clay starts and where the roots stop in correlation.

Ultimate goal is to push the roots deep to have a better chance of surviving hot temps with less water.

I really just want to know why some people aerate and top dress with sand while others do not.

I am in the belief that if that is the best practice then we all should be doing it.

I may need a new thread with a different title. I found an old one where it had to locked by a moderator, seems like the topic is controversial like politics and religion.

Also, just started a PGR regimen, so that may help towards root growth.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

You have a thick, lush lawn but it dies off in the summer and you don't like that. Also, you don't like all the water you have to use when the hot weather arrives. Perfectly understandable. Plant a drought tolerant grass.

You want to grow roots? Check out TheRootsForum.com?  Sorry... couldn't resist... 

Want to get to the heart of the matter regarding best practices on aerating vs. adding organic matter? As you have seen, there are pros and cons that will ultimately depend on your budget for time, effort, and/or money.

Aeration is best for unlimited resources. Organic matter is second. Solid lawn management is a minimal requirement for everything.

In your situation... renovate to happiness. Maintain with lawn management. Add OM and/or aerate forever for nirvana.

Why?

You already have a great lawn with current stand of KBG and native clay soil (which does not drain well, by the way). You just want to cut down on summer watering while still working with what you have.

Change the grass or change the soil. Your call.

I think the grass is the problem but water will always be required in summer. Some folks just let it go dormant...

By the way... what is it about watering the lawn that gives you pause? Is it the time, the money, the effort, or all of the above?

Weigh the water resource constraint(s) against whatever constraint(s) you fear that are holding you back from just moving forward on aerating, adding OM, or renovating.

Or... doing it all! 

B


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Thick n Dense for deep roots, water infrequently. If you want to get, start researching ET0. I have a long term plan to write an article about it, but I've been too busy. You can start with this article from rachio

Start maintaining a 6in depth. Once the roots get there, then move to the 8in range. I have clay soils in Indiana. I started from subsoil after construction. If you look at my journal you will see 7in roots in a lawn at 1in hoc.

The subject of sand gets like politics with the believe that sand = concrete. That's not the case. Most golf greens are built on a sand based root zone. Experiment with a area of your lawn to see if you like the results.


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

@g-man 
So let me see if I understand this right.

The trick to getting deep roots is to keep a water level of saturated soil 1-2" inches below the active root level. 
But to do this, theres a caclculation called ET0 which takes in a bunch of enviromental factors like rain temp and humidity which guides our decision to put down x water at x day

Basically taking deep and infrequent watering 1 step further by ensuring water in soil is always just out of the roots reach?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Not saturated, actually the opposite. You want the root to need to go deeper to get water. So you irrigate to get the 6in of soil to 100% capacity. As the plant takes water, the sun evaporates some and some goes to the subsoil, the 6in will start to loose water. Once the capacity is getting depleted, the bottom part of the 6in should have more moisture than the top 3in (more roots at the top), so the roots tap into that moisture to survive, thus going deeper. In essence, you are stressing the lawn up to those 6in, and then you refill the tank until full (100% capacity) and do it all over again. This should be done mostly in the good growing times. During severe drought/heat is not the time to do this.

There is a ton of research around this. One from EU is pretty cool to see. I've seen roots studies with roots into the 25-30in deep (lab studies in sand). Ive seen studies on how the roots "follow" the sound/vibration of rushing water. It is a fascinating subject.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

g-man said:


> Not saturated, actually the opposite. You want the root to need to go deeper to get water. So you irrigate to get the 6in of soil to 100% capacity. As the plant takes water, the sun evaporates some and some goes to the subsoil, the 6in will start to loose water. Once the capacity is getting depleted, the bottom part of the 6in should have more moisture than the top 3in (more roots at the top), so the roots tap into that moisture to survive, thus going deeper. In essence, you are stressing the lawn up to those 6in, and then you refill the tank until full (100% capacity) and do it all over again. This should be done mostly in the good growing times. During severe drought/heat is not the time to do this.
> 
> There is a ton of research around this. One from EU is pretty cool to see. I've seen roots studies with roots into the 25-30in deep (lab studies in sand). Ive seen studies on how the roots "follow" the sound/vibration of rushing water. It is a fascinating subject.


G, you should take some time out this weekend and start a thread just to get your paper started. You could actually copy and paste what you just wrote to get yourself started.

Legit! NOW is the time to do it because summer is only a month away, right?

I'd follow along, for sure! I have a 90 year-old lawn that is just dying to try different things on before I kill it off and renovate...

B


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm on a family vacation typing in a cellphone. Typing all the address and references is hard. I still need to think how to approach the subject that shows the science behind it without making it hard to understand.


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

Second what murph said.

Appreciate the time you have put towards the during your vacation.

Geoundbreaking stuff to me, I may have to install speakers 10" deep now&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Yeah... you should be spending time with the family. That's the most important thing.

When you get back and you've had some time to decompress... and are still interested in the subject... I'd say go for it. Type up a few sentences and invite questions. You might start like... "There has been some discussion on whether it's best to aerate or add OM to open up the soil to promote a more vigorous root system. There might actually be a third way that presents its own difficulties but might work even better over time. Especially if your native and grass type and soil is.... yadda yadda..."

B


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