# Fall 2020



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The fall season is here. We are got some below average temperatures, some rains/storms and the lawns should start to recover from the summer heat. We are not out of the woods yet but things are looking good.

The Fall nitrogen program is explained in the Fall Nitrogen Blitz. The latest research continues to point that the next two month are the most important ones.


 You should start to get your nitrogen source. Search local places, talk to the local members in the home town threads. Save some $$ and buy it local. Urea is the cheapest source of N at around $15-$20 for 25lb of N (in a 50lb of urea).

Since the weather is nicer, I actually already started giving the lawn some slower release sources just to wake it up. I used XGRN this year to try using a slower release product earlier in the season.

We get this question a lot: "I'm overseeding, can I also do a lot of nitrogen?" It becomes a balancing act. You want the new grass to get more mature without excessive growth, but also benefit from the extra nitrogen in the existing lawn. Every situation is different and it is hard to tell.

To overseed or not to overseed? - I'm of the opinion that most cool season mix lawns do not need an overseed every year. They need the nitrogen to recover and get thick, but an overseed is not really always needed. Of course if you had areas with fungus (PB) that killed it, or severe drought, then you will need to overseed. If it is more than 25% damage or a 100% TTTF lawn, then overseed. Again, just my opinion from my no mix lawn and all the common areas from the HOA that never get an overseed.

 POA a - POA a does die in the summer under some conditions. It mainly involves heat stress from temperature and drought. If you keep your lawn irrigated and green thru the summer, it will survive. This year we had a rainy summer, so that helps it survive more. You will need to kill it or hand pull it this year.

Further POA a drops seed that germinate in the fall as soil temperature drop. You want to apply a prem around the first week of August to help prevent it (further north even sooner). The spring prem normally wears out around August. A split app of prodiamine in the spring does help but it will still wear out. If POA a is not a problem in your lawn, then skip it.

 Fungus - Be vigilant of fungus as the rains/heat are still with us. PB, GLS and brown patch can still cause damage. DS, Rust and LS will start to pop up later in the season. Preventive snow mold fungicide due help (see Ward's lawn).[/url].


Since we are already in 10Aug, you should really start to drop the nitrogen now. Areas further north (Michigan, WI, MN, Quebec), it was a week or so ago, but I failed to post this early enough. Remember, we want the bulk of the nitrogen in the months of August/Sept for most of the Midwest. Transition zone (TN, VA) then Sept/Oct.

Here is the 8-14 day temp map:


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Dropped my first app of fall nitrogen today. 2 lb/k AMS. Let the mowing begin.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

PSA

The wind, sun, heat, etc are causing for really high ET0 (0.32in) for areas of Kansas, Iowa, MN, NE. Your lawn will likely need 0.28in of water just for today.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

One thing I adjust at the end of the season for my rachio/ET calculations is root depth. I go from 6in to 5 or even 4in. Why? summer is hard of roots and they become less effective. If I keep it at 6in, the lawn will show stress before the next irrigation cycle.

Hopefully this is the end of summer and better temperatures will be here. Hurricane Laura can bring us some rain storms, so consider it if you are overseeding.


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## jperm47 (Jul 29, 2020)

I was planning on dropping Carbon X two weeks after seeding so as not to have the existing grass choke out the new grass and then Urea a few weeks after that / sometime in mid- October. Does that timeline / order of operations make sense?


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

@g-man thank you for posting this with the essentials. I have one question. I didnt use pgr before in my no mix lawn and I do not reel mow but with the blitz the mowing frequency and amount of clippings increase so much. I know I am bad because I bag, dont kill me but i like it that way.

Coming back to the question, what's your experience/recommendations with PGR and the blitz on a typical 2" nomix lawn. Would you recommend it? I'm just trying to see if it helps with some thickening in addition to the benefit of the blitz?


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## jeffjunstrom (Aug 12, 2019)

The northeast is supposed to get pounded with rain this weekend, so I'm hoping to get some green up soon. Dropped the HOC one notch last weekend, and will maintain it there (about 2"). Dropped 1.04#N via CX, and plan to do a 1# app of Urea this weekend. After reading the N blitz thread, I'm going to give the Heavy N Program a run.

Urea must be a hot commodity in Pittsburgh, though. The only place I could find that had it was Site One, and that was $40 for the bag. Granted that's ~2.5 apps, but definitely not the $20ish outlined above. If anyone has any hot leads on Urea that I can have delivered, let me know.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@jeffjunstrom check EH Griffith.

https://catalog.ehgriffith.com/location.php?osCsid=2eut1r27rtdck094fhifb6gad6


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@uts I don't have experience with pgr at 2in. Just try it.


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## jeffjunstrom (Aug 12, 2019)

g-man said:


> @jeffjunstrom check EH Griffith.
> 
> https://catalog.ehgriffith.com/location.php?osCsid=2eut1r27rtdck094fhifb6gad6


Damn! That's half the price I paid. Solid info.

A little pricier on some other items (I was using Tenacity, among others, as a control checking prices...DMO was definitely the best), but I'll take it for local fertilizers.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Heavy stuff in bags, shop local. Liquid in small bottles, online or local.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

g-man said:


> @uts I don't have experience with pgr at 2in. Just try it.


@uts I'm adding Anuew pgr to my fall blitz this year and I'm 2" HOC nomix. Had great results last fall with no PGR, hoping this year goes even better.

We should compare notes.


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## npompei (Sep 8, 2019)

@jeffjunstrom do you have any feed mills around you? I can get it locally here at my feed mill for $14 a bag. May be worth looking around.

We've got a cooling trend coming in the next few days so once Laura passes through on Sat. I plan to overseed on Sunday afternoon. Calling for (at this moment) heavy storms and maybe an inch of rain. I'm going to scalp, dethatch and sweep the lawn on Friday. Let the rains come to soften my hard *** ground on Saturday, then aerate Sun. afternoon and throw seed down along with Tenacity. High 70's to low 80's through the week next week which will seem like fall is here lol.

With my coming schedule with work and family life, it may be my only time to have a few days to get it all done. I have a patchwork above ground irrigation I used when seeding last year so I think I should be ok. Hope for some cooler nights and rain. That way come October, I can go hard on the Nitrogen game!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

This news article showed up in my chrome feed.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/09/06/weather/holiday-weekend-weather-forecast-record-heat-cold-snap-snow/index.html

No, your seeds will be fine. It won't kill them if you get snow (Denver area). The cold will slow down the growth and spreading. Don't walk on the lawn if it is frozen.


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## Jacks_Designs (May 4, 2020)

davegravy said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > @uts I don't have experience with pgr at 2in. Just try it.
> ...


I'm at 2.25 in HOC and just put down my 2nd APP of PGR (t-nex). I'm ramping up to full rate as I didn't want to stress the lawn to much. I'm very interested how it will affect my fall blitz.


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## bmlocal175 (Aug 25, 2020)

I'm in NY... 5.2 grams of prodiamine wdg per 1000 sq ft, is this what I'm shooting for for a split app?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Yes. You can do 3 apps of 5g/ksqft each per year on kbg/prg. Each one will give you around 3 month coverage.


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## Rig2 (Sep 3, 2018)

California laughs at your "fall is here"! Been trying to do a Reno in the back yard but in NorCal we been having a 110+ heat wave then 95+ all next week. The daylight is getting shorter but the heat is still here. Throwing seed down today since I just got hit with a since you get monday at off, we need you to work the next two weeks non stop. 
Good thing it's only grass. What survives will the strongest, Buffest grass.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

uts said:


> Coming back to the question, what's your experience/recommendations with PGR and the blitz on a typical 2" nomix lawn. Would you recommend it? I'm just trying to see if it helps with some thickening in addition to the benefit of the blitz?


At 2 inches, you can apply at higher rates than with shorter lawns. You will get the same benefits of darker color, higher density, and increased root mass. A 2 inch HOC is the same as a golf course rough so use that dosing. I would start at half rate for 1-2 applications then go to full rate.


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## Mtsdream (May 2, 2019)

Seeded mazama 4 days ago, too late to put down starter fert?


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

bernstem said:


> uts said:
> 
> 
> > Coming back to the question, what's your experience/recommendations with PGR and the blitz on a typical 2" nomix lawn. Would you recommend it? I'm just trying to see if it helps with some thickening in addition to the benefit of the blitz?
> ...


Thanks for the reply. I started with 0.13oz/M initially 10 days back but that didnt do much. I will spray at 0.25oz/M tomorrow and go from there. I think I can easily go upto 0.5oz/M. That's the rate for KBG and higher for TTTF.

My hope is to mow once a week at 2" when I am heavily fertilizing that's all. Lol


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think @chrismar did 1oz/ksqft on his 2in hoc lawn, or it was @ericgautier. Leave yourself a small control plot, so you can better judge the suppression.


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

g-man said:


> I think @chrismar did 1oz/ksqft on his 2in hoc lawn, or it was @ericgautier. Leave yourself a small control plot, so you can better judge the suppression.


Will do that def. If it's possible to do 1oz safetly. should I just jump up straight to 0.5oz/M or do a 0.25 and then a 0.5? I know what the safe thing to do is ..lol


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## bmlocal175 (Aug 25, 2020)

g-man said:


> Yes. You can do 3 apps of 5g/ksqft each per year on kbg/prg. Each one will give you around 3 month coverage.


Is this the norm for cool grass in NY or is 2 apps better and if so what is the grams per 1k just so I know?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

15g is your max. You can split that in 2 7.5g apps.


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## zackroof (Oct 27, 2019)

Regarding getting the N down now - are most doing a spoon feeding regimen or doing a full dump in the usual .75-1/1000 range?

I overseeded pretty heavily about 2.5 weeks ago and did my first N app of .3/1000 this past Sat with the idea I'll do that again and again over the next couple of weeks. Or should I just go ahead and do a full app this weekend (using Carbon X). I'm partly asking because I have a few areas that are still struggling some to come out of dormancy.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

g-man said:


> I think @chrismar did 1oz/ksqft on his 2in hoc lawn, or it was @ericgautier. Leave yourself a small control plot, so you can better judge the suppression.


1oz/ksqft is usually my target. :thumbup:


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Mtsdream said:


> Seeded mazama 4 days ago, too late to put down starter fert?


It's not too late. Best time for starter fertilizer is about 2 weeks after germination. Be gentle when walking on the seedlings, don't make any turns while on the new grass with the spreader, and keep the spreader light by only filling it partially. Presuming one is still watering multiple times per day (for a short duration) at the time of 2 weeks after germination, skip a watering and apply the fertilizer shortly before the next scheduled watering, so that the new grass is on the drier side when walking on it and spreading the fertilizer. Make the next watering double length to water the fertilizer in.


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## Mtsdream (May 2, 2019)

ken-n-nancy said:


> Mtsdream said:
> 
> 
> > Seeded mazama 4 days ago, too late to put down starter fert?
> ...


Thanks! I usually throw down before seed but went a different route this time, wish I sould have bc my soil test for my front yard had me deficient in phos


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## bmlocal175 (Aug 25, 2020)

g-man said:


> 15g is your max. You can split that in 2 7.5g apps.


What would the month coverage be for a 7.5g app?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

So far, it been a very different year. Some areas are getting a ton of rain and other like me, none. It's hard to do fall nitrogen without water. I have irrigation, but it is not the same as getting a good rain. Now we could add some colder temps to further shrink our season too.

If you don't have irrigation, then don't stress the lawn with the extra nitrogen. Some years we get a bad hand and 2020 is the year for bad stuff. There is always 2021.


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## mobiledynamics (Aug 9, 2020)

I feel ur pain. What was a dry summer....was looking forward to some H20. We got some from Isaias. I overseeded before then. Been watching the forecast like a hawk. Going rain free again this entire week and so far forecasting for next week, albeit nice pleasant -falllike weather-, zero precipitation. Grrrrr


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## npompei (Sep 8, 2019)

mobiledynamics said:


> I feel ur pain. What was a dry summer....was looking forward to some H20. We got some from Isaias. I overseeded before then. Been watching the forecast like a hawk. Going rain free again this entire week and so far forecasting for next week, albeit nice pleasant -falllike weather-, zero precipitation. Grrrrr


I'm with you. Is it wrong that I'm hoping we get any of the remnants from all of these hurricanes?!I need to get my starter fert down, been nearly 2 weeks since germ. I have irrigation but it's maybe 75-80% coverage. I'm going out on a limb and I'll say November is going to be the wettest on record... You know that's happening


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## mobiledynamics (Aug 9, 2020)

npompei -

I think you got it the wrong way. I think it will be a very Dry September, October and November

(hoping this breaks the curse now) :roll:


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

@g-man I ended up seeding on 9-3. Not the optimal window, but I am seeing growth. I wish I saw this thread initially because I would have dropped seed in Aug.

As to my question. I understand the guidance for the dates in your initial post. About 45 days before my avg first frost puts me right where you said I would have ideally have started dropping N.

Is there a temperature guidance you can offer? So for example...if we want to drop N in August, is there a temperature ceiling that we shouldn't be applying N at?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@turfnsurf 105F


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

g-man said:


> @turfnsurf 105F


Thanks. Man...what _don't _you know?!


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

ericgautier said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > I think @chrismar did 1oz/ksqft on his 2in hoc lawn, or it was @ericgautier. Leave yourself a small control plot, so you can better judge the suppression.
> ...


Thank your for this. I applied 0.5oz/M to one section and it seems to doing well.

I am going to try 0.66oz in the front and go from there. Heavy fertilizers here we come.


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## Bean4Me (May 13, 2020)

how late into the fall do you apply PGR? any issues with going into dormancy under regulation?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I try to do half rate to avoid rebound as the temps start to drop. I think @Pete1313 show me a study that it was good to keep it under regulation into dormancy.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Bean4Me said:


> how late into the fall do you apply PGR? any issues with going into dormancy under regulation?





g-man said:


> I try to do half rate to avoid rebound as the temps start to drop. I think @Pete1313 show me a study that it was good to keep it under regulation into dormancy.


Earlier spring green-up when using trinexapac-ethyl the previous fall. Time your last app to go down 1-2 weeks before your average first frost.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=192392#p192392


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## bmlocal175 (Aug 25, 2020)

I'm in Central NY and late to the game. Is it to late to apply my fall Prodiamine or just wait until spring? If not do I just do a 3 month coverage at 5g per 1000? I'll have snow on the ground here sometimes into March and April depending on how hard we get hit.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

bmlocal175 said:


> I'm in Central NY and late to the game. Is it to late to apply my fall Prodiamine or just wait until spring? If not do I just do a 3 month coverage at 5g per 1000? I'll have snow on the ground here sometimes into March and April depending on how hard we get hit.


Although late, application of a 3-month coverage of prodiamine at this time in Central NY will prevent some weeds, particularly _Poa annua_ that would otherwise still germinate this fall and be noticeable in the lawn next spring. Yes, you'll have already missed most of them, but with how inexpensive prodiamine is when purchased in the 5-pound jug, it's still worthwhile, in my opinion.

However, there's no need to apply more than 3 months of coverage now. To prevent germination in spring, you should make an early spring application at the time of forsythia bloom in your area.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

What a terrible fall season. Cold and dry. My grass is just kind of hanging around, not flying like past Septembers.

If we had warm and dry days I'd irrigate, but the low temps keep the lawn wet all day.

Looking forward to spring already!


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## Ngilbe36 (Jul 23, 2020)

Sinclair said:


> What a terrible fall season. Cold and dry. My grass is just kind of hanging around, not flying like past Septembers.
> 
> If we had warm and dry days I'd irrigate, but the low temps keep the lawn wet all day.
> 
> Looking forward to spring already!


Glad to know its bad over there too. I had a couple weeks where I could get Urea down before a rain, but now its highs of 65 and lows of 40 with no rain.


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## mobiledynamics (Aug 9, 2020)

What dry later summer/early fall ....uuggh. 
Some of the seed I seeded before remnants of Isias has sprouted and I have been cutting.
Others 

I'm going to suck it up. Going to drag a 200 footer hose....some makeshift heads and reseed this weekend.


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## Avid123 (Jul 31, 2019)

My lawn was hard hit this summer due to the heat and lack of rain (and my lack of diligence in watering and feeding, plus lots of POA A which has now turned brown). To try and recover it with the Fall N would weekly liquid/foliar apps of urea at 0.25lb N/K be better or bi-weekly granular urea of 0.5lb N/K?

Thanks


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## GreenMountainLawn (Jul 23, 2019)

Quick question about a N drop. My lawn is non irrigated and starting to show some drought stress from almost no rain for the month of Sept here in VT. Looks like some rain may return next week, so need to time my app with that. Should I still do a Fert drop (1 lb N per K) if the lawn is stressed from lack of rain? Also, had 4 nights in row of low temps in upper 20s with heavy frost every morning, so assume its slowing down on the growth side.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Avid123 I don't know what is better. The studies I referenced are all around soil application.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@GreenMountainLawn will it continue to rain in October? How many inches of rain? How frequent?

If it is stressed and your can't water it with rain, adding nitrogen it is going to stress it more. Maybe do a 0.25lb N/ksqft before the rain. If the weather improves, then do another 0.25 the week after.


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## Apple Country (Jun 10, 2019)

We have a pretty good drought going in Massachusetts and I am wondering if I should drop N again on an un-irrigated lawn.

I've made one application this blitz season, last dropping 1 pound per 1000 square feet around August 25 ahead of a good chunk of rain but things have dried out since then. I don't have any specific goals in mind beyond the routine blitz.


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## GreenMountainLawn (Jul 23, 2019)

Apple Country said:


> We have a pretty good drought going in Massachusetts and I am wondering if I should drop N again on an un-irrigated lawn.
> 
> I've made one application this blitz season, last dropping 1 pound per 1000 square feet around August 25 ahead of a good chunk of rain but things have dried out since then. I don't have any specific goals in mind beyond the routine blitz.


I had the same question few days ago as I'm in the same boat in VT..almost zero rain for all of Sept. G-Man mentioned maybe .25lb of N, but my lawn is getting more stressed by the day without rain. Next week looks like a soaker finally for the Northeast. I'm not sure if I will drop any or not, lawn looks worse now than at any point over the summer months. Never thought that would happen considering its almost OCT and temps have been cool, but no rain= stress.


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## Avid123 (Jul 31, 2019)

If I got a bit of a late start this year on my Fall N and have done only one app of 0.5N/K using urea, is it ok to go weekly at a rate of 0.5N for the next two weeks (our expected first frost here in Toronto is mid Oct so I probably don't have much time left) or would that be too aggressive (I.e. potentially burning the grass or something )?


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## Justmatson (Apr 4, 2020)

Avid123 said:


> If I got a bit of a late start this year on my Fall N and have done only one app of 0.5N/K using urea, is it ok to go weekly at a rate of 0.5N for the next two weeks (our expected first frost here in Toronto is mid Oct so I probably don't have much time left) or would that be too aggressive (I.e. potentially burning the grass or something )?


Your fine at that rate. I did 0.5N one week then 1lb the next. Just get it watered in.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Apple Country If you there is drought and you can irrigate, I would suggest not dropping nitrogen. Some years mother nature does not cooperate.

@Avid123 0.5lb/weekly will not burn your lawn. You do need to keep it watered (rain or irrigation).


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## Avid123 (Jul 31, 2019)

ken-n-nancy said:


> bmlocal175 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm in Central NY and late to the game. Is it to late to apply my fall Prodiamine or just wait until spring? If not do I just do a 3 month coverage at 5g per 1000? I'll have snow on the ground here sometimes into March and April depending on how hard we get hit.
> ...


I'm in a similar boat and trying to understand the 3 vs 6 month app right now - i.e. if early spring in my area would be around March/April - is the logic for a 3 month rate that the germination time for POA A and other weeds primarily in the next 3 months (recognizing that many have already been missed due to the delay) rather than the whole 6 month period from now until Spring?


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

W@Avid123 The question is, how much your lawn can take. Water, favourable temps are ingredients to 'suck' N in. I wouldn't go higher than 0.3N weekly. You can make up for some delays, but not 3 times faster. On other hand, any unused N will simply vanish. More or less like vit C ...


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Avid123 once the ground is frozen, there is no more germination. Applying a 6 months rate of PreM now would be wasteful (for folks in the north, transition zone is a different story).

The spring application is done before the soil gets to 50F (the point that most germination starts). It covers you until summer to prevent crabgrass and other weeds listed in the label.


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## Pezking7p (May 23, 2020)

The rain forecast is messing with me. It was forecasted to be a high chance of rain all day today starting at 8:00 am until 1:00 am. Every hour, the chance for rain gets pushed back, 100% chance of rain gets reduced to 50% (how can 100% chance of rain be reduced???), and the sun keeps shining, mocking me. It is now variously 30%-80% chance of rain from 4:00-1:00, I'm not holding my breath.

At least I turned on the germination sprinklers this morning instead of waiting for rain.


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## elgrow (Mar 30, 2020)

Pezking7p said:


> The rain forecast is messing with me. It was forecasted to be a high chance of rain all day today starting at 8:00 am until 1:00 am. Every hour, the chance for rain gets pushed back, 100% chance of rain gets reduced to 50% (how can 100% chance of rain be reduced???), and the sun keeps shining, mocking me. It is now variously 30%-80% chance of rain from 4:00-1:00, I'm not holding my breath.
> 
> At least I turned on the germination sprinklers this morning instead of waiting for rain.


Yeah this weather has been baffling. I haven't watered at all since yesterday morning anticipating the deluge today, only to find it won't hit until tonight if it even does hit.

I did get a mow in today on the new grass in case we do get a lot of rain and would have had to hold off for several days to dry out.


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## Pezking7p (May 23, 2020)

elgrow said:


> Pezking7p said:
> 
> 
> > The rain forecast is messing with me. It was forecasted to be a high chance of rain all day today starting at 8:00 am until 1:00 am. Every hour, the chance for rain gets pushed back, 100% chance of rain gets reduced to 50% (how can 100% chance of rain be reduced???), and the sun keeps shining, mocking me. It is now variously 30%-80% chance of rain from 4:00-1:00, I'm not holding my breath.
> ...


I rushed a mow in last night as well, it was still a bit too wet and I damaged a few small areas. Luckily I rushed to put down extra seed on Saturday while everything was still very wet, and it looks like all the seed has worked down into the soil (I literally can't locate seeds visually, crazy), so I'm feeling good about the deluge, if it happens. IF.

Looks pretty dark to the north of me. Not sure how far into VA you are but I hope you get some rain.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Avid123 said:


> ken-n-nancy said:
> 
> 
> > Although late, application of a 3-month coverage of prodiamine at this time in Central NY will prevent some weeds, particularly _Poa annua_ that would otherwise still germinate this fall and be noticeable in the lawn next spring. Yes, you'll have already missed most of them, but with how inexpensive prodiamine is when purchased in the 5-pound jug, it's still worthwhile, in my opinion.
> ...


What @g-man said (below) is spot-on. Basically, there's no benefit to having a pre-emergent in place from Dec 15 to March 15 for those of us in northern states or provinces where the ground is frozen or nearly so for that entire period. To prevent any spring germination of _Poa annua_ you'll want to get your pre-emergent down shortly after the ground thaws out in the spring.



g-man said:


> @Avid123 once the ground is frozen, there is no more germination. Applying a 6 months rate of PreM now would be wasteful (for folks in the north, transition zone is a different story).
> 
> The spring application is done before the soil gets to 50F (the point that most germination starts). It covers you until summer to prevent crabgrass and other weeds listed in the label.


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

@ken-n-nancy I'm still fuzzy on when to use prodiamine. I'm probably missing something obvious, but I read @Pete1313 using it relatively late in the season:



Pete1313 said:


> A quick update. Day 71. Last Sunday, 10/8, was day 64 and I put down an app of prodiamine at the .5 lbs/acre rate. I also put down another urea app just before the prodiamine.


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

Zip-a-Dee-Zee said:


> @ken-n-nancy I'm still fuzzy on when to use prodiamine. I'm probably missing something obvious, but I read @Pete1313 using it relatively late in the season:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I am not wrong the label says 60 days after germination..


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

@uts Right, I get that you have to wait 60 days, but @g-man stated that it's too late:



g-man said:


> @Avid123 once the ground is frozen, there is no more germination. Applying a 6 months rate of PreM now would be wasteful (for folks in the north, transition zone is a different story).


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Zip-a-Dee-Zee I live in Indy and Pete is in rockford, IL. We both start our reno the first week of August. That means that by the first week of Oct we can do prodiamine. My grass grows until the first week of December. Prodiamine is getting me 2 full months of protection in a lawn that is still thin from a renovation.

In a non reno year, I try to have prodiamine coverage from August to late November.

Lastly, my statement above might not be very clear, I said not to do a 6 month rate. But he can do a 3 month one.


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

@g-man Thank you for the clarification :thumbup:


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

g-man said:


> @Zip-a-Dee-Zee I live in Indy and Pete is in rockford, IL. We both start our reno the first week of August. That means that by the first week of Oct we can do prodiamine. My grass grows until the first week of December. Prodiamine is getting me 2 full months of protection in a lawn that is still thin from a renovation.
> 
> In a non reno year, I try to have prodiamine coverage from August to late November.
> 
> Lastly, my statement above might not be very clear, I said not to do a 6 month rate. But he can do a 3 month one.


 :thumbsup:


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## Glen_Cove_5511 (Jun 13, 2020)

Cool temps and lack of sun is really slowing the progress of my reno. Hoping to see some warmer temps soon.


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## Avid123 (Jul 31, 2019)

g-man said:


> @Apple Country If you there is drought and you can irrigate, I would suggest not dropping nitrogen. Some years mother nature does not cooperate.
> 
> @Avid123 0.5lb/weekly will not burn your lawn. You do need to keep it watered (rain or irrigation).


Thanks as always @g-man and @Babameca. Just wondering when you guys mention having it well irrigated, is the typical 1" of water a week sufficient or does it need to be a higher quantity or more frequent during the fall N blitz ?


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## Avid123 (Jul 31, 2019)

Avid123 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > @Apple Country If you there is drought and you can irrigate, I would suggest not dropping nitrogen. Some years mother nature does not cooperate.
> ...


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## behemyth (Jun 8, 2019)

@Avid123 I just dropped my lawn down to 1" a week over two waterings, last week I still did 1.5" in three, but its been really warm here. As long as the temps stay cooler, you should be good at 1". You just have to do it and see how your lawn responds.

Just make sure you do it in the early morning so it dries out. I did a little watering one night, and the next morning my lawn was still wet because of the cooler temps - invites fungus growth.

This year is really tricky - at least where I live. We went from constant 80-90 degree days to barely being over 60, and dropping from 60 at night into the low 40's and even the 30's.


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## Avid123 (Jul 31, 2019)

Just wanted to check that if I'm expecting overnight rain and/or potentially rain the next morning - is it safe to put down granular urea (0.5N/K) in the late evening and leave it on the grass to be watered in by the rain. I.e. If the rain starts early morning instead of the night would I be risking a burn ? Night time temps right now are around early 50s and daytime between 60-65.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

No risk of burning as long as the grass is dry when you spread it.


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## jacobpd (May 12, 2020)

g-man said:


> No risk of burning as long as the grass is dry when you spread it.


How about spray the urea (dissolved in water first and spray like 1 lb/gallon for 1k sqft)? 
Do I have to water in right away instead of over night waiting for the morning rain?
or do i have to spray right before the rain?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Spray is a different approach.

Safe to water in the morning
Urea 0.25lb with 1 gallon of water/ksqft
AMS 0.2lb with *2* gallons of water/ksqft

All others sprays, water it immediately.


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## jacobpd (May 12, 2020)

g-man said:


> Spray is a different approach.
> 
> Safe to water in the morning
> Urea 0.25lb with 1 gallon of water/ksqft
> ...


So, I do the N Blitz by spraying. I have to spray 8 times to get 1 lb of N/ksqft per month?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm not sure what you are trying to do. The blitz is a soil nitrogen plan, not foliar. If you want, you can spray 1lb of N/ksqft at once, but per my statement, you need to water it in immediately (into the soil).

I like to keep things/life simple, so I spread my fall nitrogen.


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## jacobpd (May 12, 2020)

g-man said:


> I'm not sure what you are trying to do. The blitz is a soil nitrogen plan, not foliar. If you want, you can spray 1lb of N/ksqft at once, but per my statement, you need to water it in immediately (into the soil).
> 
> I like to keep things/life simple, so I spread my fall nitrogen.


Thanks. 
The reason that I spray is that I find the urea particles become smaller after a week or two after the bag is opened.
So, I can not use the previous settings of the spreader otherwise I will apply too much urea unless I adjust the settings again. 
for spray, I can control the amount of N more precisely. This is a simpler and safer way to me. I have a push battery sprayer. It is not that bad to spray a large area.


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## Avid123 (Jul 31, 2019)

Just curious for those who apply foliar urea (I know @Harts also recommends it for smaller areas) - do you use marker dye to see where you are spraying or just do something like mow the lawn right before spraying to have some guiding lines ?


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Avid123 said:


> Just curious for those who apply foliar urea (I know @Harts also recommends it for smaller areas) - do you use marker dye to see where you are spraying or just do something like mow the lawn right before spraying to have some guiding lines ?


I spray urea and never use dye - I mow first and then use the mower lines as my guide. Back before I converted to reel mowing, I'd set up the kids toys on the yard every 1/3 just to give me some idea. The funny thing is that none of that is necessary; all you have to do is keep your eyes fixated on your end target - at least for my longest run that works.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

I just spray. No dye. Once you do it once or twice, it becomes easier. Don't over think it.


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## ThickAndGreen (Sep 8, 2017)

I like to spray in the morning when dew is on the ground so I can see my tires marks easy. I know to space out the tire marks approximately every 18 inches.


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## Avid123 (Jul 31, 2019)

@Biggylawns @ThickAndGreen How long after you spray do you water it in ? I guess it also depends on how much you're putting down right


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Avid123 said:


> @Biggylawns @ThickAndGreen How long after you spray do you water it in ? I guess it also depends on how much you're putting down right


Anything up to .3 and I wait 3 hours to let the blade absorb some then rinse off by running the sprinklers for 5-7 min (next day I do 1/4 of an inch) . Anything over .3 and I water in as soon as I'm done spraying. My apps are typically .25 and .5.


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## Marzbar (Aug 2, 2020)

g-man said:


> @jperm47 I spread mine. Keep it simple.


@g-man. Do you have any suggestions on how to spread .5 lbs of urea to cover 1000 sq. ft.? I would rather spread the urea than spray it.
Thank you in advance for your response.


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

Marzbar said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > @jperm47 I spread mine. Keep it simple.
> ...


Mix it with a half or full pound of organic stuff similar to milorganite and use a hand spreader.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Marzbar I don't mix it with anything. I just a hand spreader and I'm done in 10min.

This: 
https://www.target.com/p/scotts-whirl-hand-powered-spreader/-/A-79559568?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google&fndsrc=tmnv&DFA=71700000073585773&CPNG=PLA_DVM%2B0060H00000r4Wl0QAE-SCJ_2020_Scotts+Miracle-Gro_Flight&adgroup=PLA_Scotts+Fertilizer&LID=700000001393753pgs&network=g&device=m&location=9016049&gclid=CjwKCAjwzvX7BRAeEiwAsXExo-fSVsC3LW1IVKgUSnBmFdJRtKeh4K0rWKkMxVQT-M-nTdnj7sISFBoCmBQQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Or this:
https://gemplers.com/products/solo-portable-spreader?variant=21172327284825&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&utm_content=https://gemplers.com/products/solo-portable-spreader%3Fvariant%3D21172327284825%26utm_medium%3Dcpc%26utm_source%3Dgoogle%26utm_campaign%3DGoogle%2520Shopping&utm_term=shopify_US_2043246182489_21172327284825&gclid=CjwKCAjwzvX7BRAeEiwAsXExoz7vN8ESUvLvdWgPsA2HuBbs7PAeInd2c_fHgZEGpKWvWYo4X4owvxoCbN0QAvD_BwE

Or the one I use:
https://www.target.com/p/10-5-h-hand-held-spreader-scotts/-/A-53041427?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google&fndsrc=tmnv&DFA=71700000073585773&CPNG=PLA_DVM%2B0060H00000r4Wl0QAE-SCJ_2020_Scotts+Miracle-Gro_Flight&adgroup=PLA_Scotts+Fertilizer&LID=700000001393753pgs&network=g&device=m&location=9016049&gclid=CjwKCAjwzvX7BRAeEiwAsXExowkcjevJKgrgDREJajG6qYZqqvTVZhoC6FAYP5Sz_K961whDLDqQXxoC_08QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## jperm47 (Jul 29, 2020)

My partial reno / rehab is coming along fantastic. I've been spoon feeding Urea the past 3 weekends. I used a full 50 pound bag over 3 apps for 23k square feet. Should I go get more Urea and continue to spoon feed for the next couple of weeks or should I be switching over to Milo or Carbon-X, both of which I have in the shed ready to use


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

g-man said:


> @Marzbar I don't mix it with anything. I just a hand spreader and I'm done in 10min.
> 
> This:
> https://www.target.com/p/scotts-whirl-hand-powered-spreader/-/A-79559568?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google&fndsrc=tmnv&DFA=71700000073585773&CPNG=PLA_DVM%2B0060H00000r4Wl0QAE-SCJ_2020_Scotts+Miracle-Gro_Flight&adgroup=PLA_Scotts+Fertilizer&LID=700000001393753pgs&network=g&device=m&location=9016049&gclid=CjwKCAjwzvX7BRAeEiwAsXExo-fSVsC3LW1IVKgUSnBmFdJRtKeh4K0rWKkMxVQT-M-nTdnj7sISFBoCmBQQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
> ...


^+1 @Marzbar
Don't be intimidated with spreading low quantities of urea, just weigh it out with a digital scale, for the area you are looking to cover, and then use the smallest opening on your spreader. I can cross hatch each area with a hand spreader for even distribution (I have and prefer a manual hand spreader). I bought this scale 5 years ago and used it yesterday (replaced batteries once). I calculated the amount needed and marked it with a Sharpie on a Ziploc sandwich bag for each "zone" of my yard, and keep it in my kit. As @g-man says, it takes only a few minutes, and I find it the most rewarding and cheapest part of lawn care. The watering in takes longer. Lol


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Ready for La Nina?

Bill Kreuser posted this in the UNL Turf Info. In short, the warm water from the pacific ocean could mean a warmer/dryer winter for the west side of the midwest. Dont expect 70F for Christmas unless you are traveling to Florida. Expect the turf to turn brown from desiccation, but it survives at the crowns so dont worry.

https://turf.unl.edu/turfinfo/11_12_20_LaNina.pdf


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

g-man said:


> Ready for La Nina?
> 
> Bill Kreuser posted this in the UNL Turf Info. In short, the warm water from the pacific ocean could mean a warmer/dryer winter for the west side of the midwest. Dont expect 70F for Christmas unless you are traveling to Florida. Expect the turf to turn brown from desiccation, but it survives at the crowns so dont worry.
> 
> https://turf.unl.edu/turfinfo/11_12_20_LaNina.pdf


Northeast is supposed to be average to significantly warmer than average...if the atmospheric blocking and polar vortex behave as predicated by the November weather pattern. And it will also be about average precipitation level in the Northeast...but on the downside a lot of it could be rain (similar to last Winter). There could also be dry periods here as well in between the rain...so I'd expect both ice damage in flooded areas, and desiccation as a possibility. Probably will be a good year for dormant seeding in March...assuming the seed doesn't rot or wash away...


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