# HOC...now to go low???



## airgas1998 (May 1, 2019)

maybe I missed something, but I swore most were saying to mow high, and not low. now I see posts about mowing low...
for a novice what is the general consensus on this topic. I know a lot on here like reel mowers, but that's not happening where i'm at. is there a general guideline to follow...like in spring go low and summer high????


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

I'm mowing this entire season at 3in. When you go low, you need more water.


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## SJ Lawn (May 7, 2018)

greencare said:


> I'm mowing this entire season at 3in. When you go low, you need more water.


Same here. 3 inches all year except one notch lower for 1st mow of season (clean up some brown color) and last 2 mows of year (lessen matting from snow). Going low means more maintenance if you have the time.


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## PNW_George (May 28, 2018)

airgas1998 said:


> maybe I missed something, but I swore most were saying to mow high, and not low. now I see posts about mowing low...
> for a novice what is the general consensus on this topic. I know a lot on here like reel mowers, but that's not happening where i'm at. is there a general guideline to follow...like in spring go low and summer high????


There is another forum or two that have a few dominate members that emphatically preach an uncompromising stance on a number of topics and one is to mow high, proudly cutting at 3, 3 1/2, even 4 inches.

Nothing wrong with that but there was also a group that preferred cutting low and many of those members migrated over to this forum. That may even be one of the reasons this forum was started but I can't remember the details and don't want to speak for others.

There is no consensus. It depends on your goals, the look you prefer, growing zone, type of grass, equipment and how much work you want to put in. Cutting low is high maintenance and takes a lot of work. Cutting high can be just as rewarding, can still take some work, and you can also have an amazing looking lawn.


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## airgas1998 (May 1, 2019)

got it... all valid points...


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

For the most part hoc is a personal preference. However just starting out its probably best to mow higher for a number of reasons.

Id say regardless of hoc though, ppl tend to go a little higher in the summer


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

HOC is personal choice. Mowing low does require more work to maintain. However, I would argue that more water isn't necessarily needed.

If a reel mower isn't in your plans and you are just starting out, keep you cut height at 3-4" (depending on grass type). More important than HOC is proper maintenance practices. HOC doesn't really matter if you don't do the right things consistently to maintain your lawn.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

HOC is dependent on grass type and personal desire. There is a wide range of heights that most grasses will tolerate, but there is a smaller range where the grass is generally happier and easier to maintain. For Tall Fescue that is 2.5-4 inches. For KBG it is 2-3 inches. Those heights are generalizations and we could certainly argue that KBG is really 1.5-2.5 or 2.5-3.5, but it is not 0.25 inches and it isn't 5 inches.

The lower you cut, the harder it is to keep looking good, and the more susceptible to problems it will be. The grass just isn't as robust. There is also a limit to how low you can maintain some grasses. While dwarf Bermudas and dwarf Bentgrass bred for putting greens can be maintained at 0.125 inches, good luck keeping Bluegrass that low.

A good starting point for cool season turf, until you have a good feel for what is needed to keep the lawn happy (i.e. for novices), is 2-3 inches in spring and fall and 2.5-3.5 inches in the summer. Higher turf will tolerate heat better, but will tend to stay wet longer which isn't good for disease. Lower cutting heights also need to be cut more often. Grass maintained below one inch will likely need mowing every 2-3 days to avoid removing more than 1/3 of the blade. That 1/3 is only 0.25 inches for grass being maintained at 0.5 inches. If you are maintaining at 3 inches, you can take off 1.5 inches.

Bottom line, cut at whatever height you want as long as the grass will tolerate it.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

^+1

And more important than HOC, mow frequently.


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

Harts said:


> HOC is personal choice. Mowing low does require more work to maintain. *However, I would argue that more water isn't necessarily needed.
> *
> If a reel mower isn't in your plans and you are just starting out, keep you cut height at 3-4" (depending on grass type). More important than HOC is proper maintenance practices. HOC doesn't really matter if you don't do the right things consistently to maintain your lawn.


I have a section in the front that instantly browns overnight if it goes under 3in in a 80 degree weather. I cut at 2in last fall for overseeding and sure enough, it died back completely, even with _same _watering. That's because after I cut, we had abnormal warm temperatures (80s) for September.

I just planted KBG seeds again in that area and finally have sprouts after two weeks of persistent watering twice a day. I was afraid it wouldn't sprout because of colder temperatures and because I put pre-emergent down, but I sprinkled in some fresh soil before seeding and then sprinkled a bit more soil on top of that to help moisture retention, prevent washout, and to stop birds from eating them. Seems to have worked.


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

airgas1998 said:


> maybe I missed something, but I swore most were saying to mow high, and not low. now I see posts about mowing low...
> for a novice what is the general consensus on this topic. I know a lot on here like reel mowers, but that's not happening where i'm at. is there a general guideline to follow...like in spring go low and summer high????


It depends how hard you want to work at it (watering, if there are droughts etc). Last year I stayed at 5/8" and this year I was at 1/4" but will stay at 1/2".


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

Harts said:


> HOC is personal choice. Mowing low does require more work to maintain. However, I would argue that more water isn't necessarily needed.
> 
> If a reel mower isn't in your plans and you are just starting out, keep you cut height at 3-4" (depending on grass type). More important than HOC is proper maintenance practices. HOC doesn't really matter if you don't do the right things consistently to maintain your lawn.


True. My friend has a really nice lawn and doesn't water as much. His roots go deep! I was thinking if the OP lives in a place where there could be drought etc then that would be a problem


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

greencare said:


> Harts said:
> 
> 
> > HOC is personal choice. Mowing low does require more work to maintain. *However, I would argue that more water isn't necessarily needed.
> ...


I would look closely at that area. KBG should tolerate 80 degree weather with zero issues at any height of cut. I would bet something is up with the soil there. You may have buried debris or gravel. There may have been a tree stump that was ground with a bunch of wood chips left buried. Maybe someone was growing azaleas there and the pH is 5.5 with sky high Aluminum levels. It is worth at least sticking a soil probe 6-12 inches into the soil to see if you feel anything or even doing some exploratory digging. Maybe a soil test of just that area.


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

bernstem said:


> greencare said:
> 
> 
> > Harts said:
> ...


That area is right next to pebble rocks. Also, that area had the first seed sprout this year. Other areas were a couple of days late.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

greencare said:


> That area is right next to pebble rocks. Also, that area had the first seed sprout this year. Other areas were a couple of days late.


If it a small 1-3 inch border next to the rocks, could be heat from the rocks, but I don't think so. My KBG next to full sun blacktop (and grown ~4 inches over the edge of the blacktop) doesn't get heat stress until it is high 80s for days - 80 degrees for a day won't phase it. It doesn't go dormant until mid summer and comes back in the fall. If it is a 1+ foot wide section of turf, I would look for buried pebble stone. Start a new thread with pics so we don't hijack this one more if you want, maybe we can help you fix it.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

greencare said:


> Harts said:
> 
> 
> > HOC is personal choice. Mowing low does require more work to maintain. *However, I would argue that more water isn't necessarily needed.
> ...


Part of the reason is went brown overnight is because your grass isn't used to being cut that low. When I chopped mine down under 1" for the first time, it took 3-4 weeks for the colour to come back. But that meant cutting it every 2-3 days to maintain at sub 1". I didn't water anymore frequently than I did when my grass was 3". If you look at my journal from last year, you can see the progress and the colour in July/August when our temps are mid to high 80s.

All I am suggesting is more water may be needed in some cases, but is isn't an outright rule of thumb on low cut grass.

Glad you had success with the germination. Growing from seed is always a nervous time! Congrats.


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## Pamboys09 (Apr 16, 2019)

Depends on your taste

For me Im cruising around .5 and ive tried .375 and my lawn doesnt look good ( in my eyes, but my neighbor thinks it looks more awesome) after a few weeks. So i went back to .5


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## TimmyTurf (Oct 10, 2019)

I never thought I could mow low. For 20 years I mowed my kbg lawn at 3.5-4". I used to make fun of all the people who paid landscapers to scalp their lawns every week lol.

Then I found this forum.

I have a fairly shady back yard and 2 dogs and the last 2 wet summers destroyed my long under fertilized back yard. I kept the grass longer and it seemed to get whispy and thin which allowed the dogs to easily tear it up and it got worse whenever it was wet.

Thanks to all the knowledge on this site, I discovered I can safely apply far more fertilizer in a safe matter than I ever had thought was possible and also mow much lower for a thicker lawn.

Ive been maintaining H.o.c at 1.5" in both my front and back yard and the back has thickened up more than I ever thought possible. It seems the lower more frequent mowing really forces the sideways growth and more spreading. I'm amazed at the difference.

So far no issues but I'm sure i'll go higher come July.

Good luck....don't get sucked in like I did lol


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

TimmyTurf said:


> I never thought I could mow low. For 20 years I mowed my kbg lawn at 3.5-4". I used to make fun of all the people who paid landscapers to scalp their lawns every week lol.
> 
> Then I found this forum.
> 
> ...


Couple of questions if you don't mind.
-Do you notice a need for more watering in the summer months?
-How often are you fertilizing, and which fertilizer?
-Which mower are you using to cut frequently? I am just worried about tire ruts from frequent mowing with my personal pace. And drum roller type mowers are really expensive(>$3K).

Thank you.


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## TimmyTurf (Oct 10, 2019)

airgas1998 said:


> maybe I missed something, but I swore most were saying to mow high, and not low. now I see posts about mowing low...
> for a novice what is the general consensus on this topic. I know a lot on here like reel mowers, but that's not happening where i'm at. is there a general guideline to follow...like in spring go low and summer high????





greencare said:


> TimmyTurf said:
> 
> 
> > I never thought I could mow low. For 20 years I mowed my kbg lawn at 3.5-4". I used to make fun of all the people who paid landscapers to scalp their lawns every week lol.
> ...


Hey there. I have a 15 yo Toro personal Pace Super recycler that Is all I've ever used. It has no problems on the second to lowest setting. It will scalp spots pretty bad on the lowest.

I have Irrigation in my back yard but I never water the front. I will typically just let the front yard go longer and longer in the warmer months when it gets drier.

Last summer I had neighbors asking me how long I run my front Sprinklers and I had to tell them I never water the front lol.

I have traditionally used Only Scotts Turf builder for 18 years with no crabgrass preventer or any other pre-emergent added it's just the plain turf bullder. I used to apply it at about 1/3 more than the bag called for and had fairly nice results but I tended to get uneven coverage and a streaky look to the lawn.

I switched to Milorganite and that was nice and green and a fairly even coverage but I figure I was missing out on some phospate and potassium.

Last fall I used Ammonium Sulphate and this spring I've put down an application of Menards Starter and then a light application of Urea and then I picked up a bag of 0-0-54 Potash. Because I stopped the Milorganite I also used some Ironite. I'm going to do another application of urea next week and maybe one more towards the end of June and then i'll be done until September other than mowing.

Its definitely more complicated than what I was doing but I've already gotten a ton of compliments on the yard so far this year. I always mow a different direction to avoid wheel ruts.

I feel like I always had a very nice yard but cutting it shorter and more fert has def thickened it up and taken it to another level. Its not anywhere near some people Golf green lawns on this site though. 
. Thats a live shot from this morning. Its growing fast so thats prob about 2"s


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

TimmyTurf said:


> airgas1998 said:
> 
> 
> > maybe I missed something, but I swore most were saying to mow high, and not low. now I see posts about mowing low...
> ...


Nice job! And thank you for the detailed answer.


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