# OKC, OK Bermuda - Common



## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

24
First Time Homeowner with my Wife

We have Common Bermuda in our lawn. The sod was laid down in December and I assume because that is dormant season, I have patches because of it. Fast forward to July, I am ready to start the lawn care process.

We have *5,000 sqft* of lawn.

*MOWING*

I bought a Craftsman M230 mower.

I have it set at *1.5 inches*, what are the downsides to raising it up to 2 inches and maintaining that height?

I mow twice a week on Mondays and Thursdays.

*WATERING*

I have impact sprinklers.

I placed mason jars throughout my yard and left the sprinklers on until the jars filled up with 1 inch of water.

The front yard takes roughly 3 hours.

The side of the house takes 1 hour and 30 mins.

The backyard takes 6 hours.

*FERTILIZER*

I bought some *21-3-7* slow release fertilizer from my local TLC Store. It's their in-house premium brand.

I understand I need 1 lb of Nitrogen per 1,000 sqft.

Using my fertilizer, I took 100 and divided by 21 which equals *4.76 lbs per 1,000 sqft*.

I took 4.76 and multiplied by 5 to get the total for 5,000 sqft: *Roughly 24 lbs of Fertilizer*. I bought a 40 lbs bag.

I am putting this down on the 1st of August.

*Weed Control*

I bought some post emergent herbicide prior to finding this forum.

I bought bottles of Spectracide "Weed Stop For Lawns" and blasted my entire yard. That was on the 15th of July. I did it again yesterday after I mowed my lawn.

Should I buy a pre-emergent now or wait until fall?

Do I buy both Prodiamine and Dithiopyr? Or do I choose one?

For Post Emergent, I combine Celsius and Certainty so not too many questions on that.


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## Philly_Gunner (Apr 23, 2019)

Sounds like you are on a pretty good track. Many will recommend doing a soil sample to see exactly what your lawn needs. Also, you may want to try your sprinkler test with something like a tuna can. Mason jars may give an inaccurate measurement due to the opening being more narrow that the rest of the jar. Also, run the test by zones and not just the entire area of yard. Good luck and welcome to the forum.


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## sportsman10 (Feb 25, 2019)

Mow at whichever height that you think the lawn looks the best and the lowest height you can keep up with. Bermuda likes to be short so the shorter the better. Just be wary of the uneven parts of the lawn especially using a rotary mower. I lowered my HOC until I saw ugly scalp marks and then bumped it up one notch on the rotary.

For fertilizer, I have found that two 0.5lb N/k per month is much better than a one-time 1lb N/k. You could even go to three 0.33 lb N/k or four 0.25 lb N/k, referred to as "spoonfeeding." I like to do less N more often because it decreases the chance of an unsuccessful app (poor spreading or a storm washing some away). For new sod, you'll want a soil test to see if your turf is missing any key nutrients, then you can get better recommendations of what products/fertilizers to use.

For fall pre-emergent I would suggest using prodiamine at a 4-5 month application rate depending on when you get it down. You'll want to use an app that lasts at least until the end of February. For spring pre-emergent, I would say that you have 3 good options (1) two lower rate prodiamine apps ["split apps" - spaced appropriately] (2) One prodiamine and a later dithiopyr app (split app again, just with two different products). (3) a single 6-month prodiamine app.

:thumbup: Celsius and certainty are all you should really need and with proper pre-em and mowing, you'll be using less post-em each year. This year I really only needed (1) celsius blanket app and I'm 99% weed-free.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

If you sodded common Bermuda. What kind of common Bermuda was it?


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

Philly_Gunner said:


> Sounds like you are on a pretty good track. Many will recommend doing a soil sample to see exactly what your lawn needs. Also, you may want to try your sprinkler test with something like a tuna can. Mason jars may give an inaccurate measurement due to the opening being more narrow that the rest of the jar. Also, run the test by zones and not just the entire area of yard. Good luck and welcome to the forum.


I have it split up into front yard, backyard, and left side, right side. 🤙🏽


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

sportsman10 said:


> Mow at whichever height that you think the lawn looks the best and the lowest height you can keep up with. Bermuda likes to be short so the shorter the better. Just be wary of the uneven parts of the lawn especially using a rotary mower. I lowered my HOC until I saw ugly scalp marks and then bumped it up one notch on the rotary.
> 
> For fertilizer, I have found that two 0.5lb N/k per month is much better than a one-time 1lb N/k. You could even go to three 0.33 lb N/k or four 0.25 lb N/k, referred to as "spoonfeeding." I like to do less N more often because it decreases the chance of an unsuccessful app (poor spreading or a storm washing some away). For new sod, you'll want a soil test to see if your turf is missing any key nutrients, then you can get better recommendations of what products/fertilizers to use.
> 
> ...


I'll try my best 🤙🏽

I'll try spoon feeding

Do you mix Celsius and Certainty in the same sprayer?


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

sportsman10 said:


> Mow at whichever height that you think the lawn looks the best and the lowest height you can keep up with. Bermuda likes to be short so the shorter the better. Just be wary of the uneven parts of the lawn especially using a rotary mower. I lowered my HOC until I saw ugly scalp marks and then bumped it up one notch on the rotary.
> 
> For fertilizer, I have found that two 0.5lb N/k per month is much better than a one-time 1lb N/k. You could even go to three 0.33 lb N/k or four 0.25 lb N/k, referred to as "spoonfeeding." I like to do less N more often because it decreases the chance of an unsuccessful app (poor spreading or a storm washing some away). For new sod, you'll want a soil test to see if your turf is missing any key nutrients, then you can get better recommendations of what products/fertilizers to use.
> 
> ...


Also, why until the end of February?


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

Tellycoleman said:


> If you sodded common Bermuda. What kind of common Bermuda was it?


Sorry, I'm not sure. We bought a new construction home but it was already finished before we started looking.


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## BermudaBoy (Jun 27, 2019)

calebbo said:


> sportsman10 said:
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> > Mow at whichever height that you think the lawn looks the best and the lowest height you can keep up with. Bermuda likes to be short so the shorter the better. Just be wary of the uneven parts of the lawn especially using a rotary mower. I lowered my HOC until I saw ugly scalp marks and then bumped it up one notch on the rotary.
> ...


That's about the time when you will apply your first round of spring pre-emergent, or at least that's when I do. And, if it doesn't last until February you may end up with a nasty poa annua infestation or any other weed that likes to germinate during the cool seasons. I missed the fall pre-emergent window this past year and had to nuke the right side of my lawn due to poa.


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## sportsman10 (Feb 25, 2019)

calebbo said:


> Do you mix Celsius and Certainty in the same sprayer?
> 
> Also, why until the end of February?


Yes, tank mixing the two is completely fine. Also, I have better success with blanket apps rather than spot spraying. For spot spraying, it is harder for me to get the appropriate amount of the herbicide down. I found myself to be heavy-handed and that can damage the desirable turf. The only time I would maybe do a spot spray is to hit a nutsedge outbreak due to weather conditions. I may even use one of those ~$12 SedgeHammer+ packets since it would be easiest to mix a 1-gallon solution for spot spraying.

You need the Prodiamine pre-emergent to last through the winter because colder tolerant weeds (winter weeds around here - annual bluegrass (POA), chickweed, henbit, etc.) will germinate as the temperatures drop in the fall. So you need to get your fall pre-em down before temperatures dip too low (and definitely before the 1st freeze), to prevent the winter weeds from germinating. Most weeds won't germinate during the coldest months (Dec- early February in central OK), but you cannot apply pre-emergent when the ground is cold so you need weed germination protection until the gournd is warm enough. The spring Pre-emergent app for Prodiamine usually takes place sometime in March (in OK) - early March for unusually warm springs and late march for unusually cold springs. Last year I put my pre-em app down in mid-March, but every year is different.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Just humor me and take a picture of your lawn fo me. I want to see a close up picture of the blades up against a point of reference like a pencil. Most of the time but not always builders sod with 419.


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

BermudaBoy said:


> calebbo said:
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Oh got it!

I think I may have a problem, I didn't realize prodiamine was so expensive. I may have to look into another pre-emergent.


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

sportsman10 said:


> calebbo said:
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> > Do you mix Celsius and Certainty in the same sprayer?
> ...


Does Certainty or Celsius kill all types of crabgrass?

I went to my local DIY Lawn and Pest store and the owner said it doesn't kill crabgrass..

Also this stuff is crazy expensive! LOL


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

Tellycoleman said:


> Just humor me and take a picture of your lawn fo me. I want to see a close up picture of the blades up against a point of reference like a pencil. Most of the time but not always builders sod with 419.


I will take a picture tomorrow!


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

Okay guys, I went to the local DIY Lawn and Pest store to buy all my chemicals.

...............This stuff is EXPENSIVE........

Prodiamine is $95
Certainty is $95
Celsius is $125

I was not expecting to spend $300 on weeds hahaha

After talking to the owner of the store, he told me Prodiamine was overkill for my lawn size. I only have 5,000 square feet and he said that Prodiamine only has a shelf life of 3 years. So I would end up having wasted product in my garage.

He also told me there were other chemicals that would do the job vs Certainty/Celsius.

And he informed me that C&C does not kill crabgrass...

So I ended up with

Surflan (1QT) for $38
https://www.domyown.com/surflan-pro-herbicide-quart-p-1559.html

Q4 Plus (32oz) for $55
https://www.domyown.com/q4-plus-turf-herbicide-p-1930.html

Surfectant for $10.
https://www.domyown.com/hiyield-spreader-sticker-oz-p-19626.html

I haven't opened the bottles yet so I am open to returning them if I goofed. I got scared off with the $300 price tag haha


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## sportsman10 (Feb 25, 2019)

calebbo said:


> After talking to the owner of the store, he told me Prodiamine was overkill for my lawn size. I only have 5,000 square feet and he said that Prodiamine only has a shelf life of 3 years. So I would end up having wasted product in my garage.
> 
> He also told me there were other chemicals that would do the job vs Certainty/Celsius.
> 
> And he informed me that C&C does not kill crabgrass...


You're welcome to follow any advice you find. Prodiamine, Celsius, and Certainty are pretty much staples for anyone in this forum with a Bermuda lawn. Yes, there are alternatives but I trust those in this forum more than a guy in a store trying to sell me something. These chemicals are all quite cheap on an application basis and are chosen for specific reasons.

You way overpaid for prodiamine. It should be about $60 for 5 lbs and it does go a long way. Also, a guy in this forum named Mightyquinn contacted the prodiamine manufacturer (Quali-Pro) to ask about shelf life and was told: "As long as [Prodiamine WDG] is kept between 32-105F it does NOT have a shelf life." Believe what you want. I missed a fall Prodiamine app last year due to travel and paid severely. I will never miss again.

https://www.domyown.com/prodiamine-65-wdg-generic-barricade-p-2495.html

Prodiamine would be your main assault on against crabgrass - preventing it from even germinating. For post-emergent control of crabgrass, I used Quinclorac (~$40/lb) last year with good results. Crabgrass can be hard to control after it has germinated due to hot temperatures and plant maturity. Some products work best when the plant is small and other work better when it is large/more mature. Again, it's best to stop it with 2-3 appropriately timed pre-emergent apps throughout the year. I had lots of crabgrass last year and none this year thanks to good spring pre-emergent control

Celsius is recommended because it DOESN'T have a temperature restriction. Most other broadleaf herbicides will say to not apply when temperatures are above 85 degrees - good luck with that in the summer.

Celsius ($90) + Certainty ($95) + Prodiamine ($60) = $245 in chemicals that will last at least (3) years (assuming you believe the prodiamine will go bad). That makes it $82 per year to control 99% or more of weeds in your Bermuda. I'll bet all those chemicals would last longer (5+ years) so you could get to less than $50/ year easily. The initial cost is high but the price per app is small. Also, as you'll notice from the Marketplace on this forum, LOTS of people buy these and split the costs since a little goes a long way. Find one person to split all these with (neighbor, friend, marketplace), and you will only have to pay around $125 for 3-5 years (or more) of weed control.

I'm still learning a lot about Bermuda management, but this information is from my own experience or what I have seen repeated over and over by the pro lawn guys here. Do so some of your own research on this forum and then decide what you will do as far as weed control.


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

Update, just found Prodiamine on Amazon for $68 shipped Prime.

Just ordered it.


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## BermudaBoy (Jun 27, 2019)

calebbo said:


> BermudaBoy said:
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I'm going to use this as my fall pre-emergent. Amazon usually sells an 18 pound bag for $30 but I don't see it listed right now. I hear it does a good job of preventing fall and early spring weeds. The customer rep from Anderson's called me and told me that you only need 3lbs/1000 sq. feet so an 18 pound bag would be perfect.
https://www.amazon.com/Andersons-Barricade-Granular-Pre-Emergent-Control/dp/B00OA3L5YS/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2RJ0Q2LJMQLIJ&keywords=barricade+dg+pre-emergent&qid=1564656802&s=gateway&sprefix=barricade+dg+%2Caps%2C139&sr=8-2


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## daniel3507 (Jul 31, 2018)

Don't forget to check out the marketplace here. Lots of guys selling smaller amounts of stuff. Comes in handy with things like prodiamine and pgr since they usually only come in large containers.

Personally I picked up some prodiamine from here and I purchased a bottle of Celsius and sold some here. Certainty can be expensive but the small packs of Sedgehammer are great and easy to use when it comes to killing sedges so don't be afraid to get that instead.


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

Thanks!

I wasn't even aware we had a Marketplace.


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## sportsman10 (Feb 25, 2019)

BermudaBoy said:


> I'm going to use this as my fall pre-emergent. Amazon usually sells an 18 pound bag for $30 but I don't see it listed right now. I hear it does a good job of preventing fall and early spring weeds. The customer rep from Anderson's called me and told me that you only need 3lbs/1000 sq. feet so an 18 pound bag would be perfect.
> https://www.amazon.com/Andersons-Barricade-Granular-Pre-Emergent-Control/dp/B00OA3L5YS/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2RJ0Q2LJMQLIJ&keywords=barricade+dg+pre-emergent&qid=1564656802&s=gateway&sprefix=barricade+dg+%2Caps%2C139&sr=8-2


This Anderson product is just a granular form of prodiamine and it is quite expensive per app (~$5 per/1,000 sq ft). Prodiamine WG from Quali-Pro is around $0.15-0.30 per 1,000 sq ft so a 5K Bermuda lawn app would be $0.75 to $1.50 total, compared to $25 using the Anderson product. 1 fall and 1 spring app of the Andersons product will cost you the same as a ten-year supply of Prodiamine WG.


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

BermudaBoy said:


> calebbo said:
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That is going to be the most expensive way to apply pre-emergent.

At 3lb/M and $30/18lb, you're looking at $5/M.

Prodiamine 65 WDG is $65 for a 5lb jug. Even at the highest rate on the label (8-months of control) of 1.5lb/acre (0.55oz/M), that is only $0.44/M.


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

I bought the prodiamine! You guys are great.

Can somebody explain the ratio for the Celsius and Certainty mixture? I have a 2 gallon sprayer. I assume 1 gallon covers 1000 sqft?

I'm returning my stuff and buying C&C tomorrow.


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## daniel3507 (Jul 31, 2018)

Pay more attention to the amount of product and less attention to the amount of water. Water is just used to put it down. Calculate how much product you need for your square footage and then add that amount to however much water it takes to cover the area.

Fill the sprayer full with only water and walk your lawn spraying as normal. Then you can see how much water it takes you.


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

Tellycoleman said:


> Just humor me and take a picture of your lawn fo me. I want to see a close up picture of the blades up against a point of reference like a pencil. Most of the time but not always builders sod with 419.


I forgot to upload the pictures. Here you go!

I bought a Fiskars Reel Mower and tried it at the second lowest setting.

I mowed the entire yard this morning.

Also, I fertilized this morning. Can I spray Prodiamine on top of it or do I need to wait a certain time period?

FRONT YARD 


CLOSE UP; LEVEL


VIEW FROM STANDING 


BACKYARD




RIGHT SIDE YARD


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

@calebbo you will want to give your prodiamine app some thought. At this point there isn't much that hasn't germinated as far as crabgrass and summer weeds. You may catch a few but would be wasting a couple months of coverage. It may be best to wait till early fall so you can catch the winter weeds better. Unless there is a definite reason to apply it now I would wait. I'm in a similar boat. I didn't get a good pre em down in spring and I'm gonna let it ride till fall.


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

TN Hawkeye said:


> @calebbo you will want to give your prodiamine app some thought. At this point there isn't much that hasn't germinated as far as crabgrass and summer weeds. You may catch a few but would be wasting a couple months of coverage. It may be best to wait till early fall so you can catch the winter weeds better. Unless there is a definite reason to apply it now I would wait. I'm in a similar boat. I didn't get a good pre em down in spring and I'm gonna let it ride till fall.


The Bermuda Bible says if you haven't applied pre emergent, apply it now lol

Thats the only reason I've bought it 😂


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

+1 on what @TN Hawkeye said. That train has left the station. You could apply now and maybe catch a few late germinators but you would be shorting yourself at the end of the fall window when you will need it the most. 
If you really want to apply now, I would do a split app.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

I thought pre emergent needed to go down around Labor Day to mid September...


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

calebbo said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
> 
> 
> > @calebbo you will want to give your prodiamine app some thought. At this point there isn't much that hasn't germinated as far as crabgrass and summer weeds. You may catch a few but would be wasting a couple months of coverage. It may be best to wait till early fall so you can catch the winter weeds better. Unless there is a definite reason to apply it now I would wait. I'm in a similar boat. I didn't get a good pre em down in spring and I'm gonna let it ride till fall.
> ...


You absolutely can put it down now but like @redtwin said you will want to put down about a 3 month dose. Prodiamine is easily dialed up or down based on how you want the protection to last. Check the label for how much to apply for 3 months protection and then plan on a 6 month dose in late October or early November based on your soil temps.


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

TODAY I EFFED UP...

I did the math, I was supposed to use 0.183 ounces of Prodiamine per 1,000 square feet for a little over 2 months of protection.

I have a 5,000 square foot yard so I multiplied 0.183 ounces by 5 and rounded it up to 1 ounce per 5,000 square feet.

But then I effed up...

After a long day, I came home and mowed. I decided to put down the Prodiamine anyways. I have a 2 gallon sprayer and I put *1 OUNCE PER GALLON. PER FREAKING GALLON. I PUT 2 OUNCES OF PRODIAMINE IN MY 2 GALLON SPRAYER.*

The worst part is I was so tired I didn't realize what I had done until I had emptied the entire canister. I sprayed 1972 square feet of my back yard (approximately half).

I just told my wife and she died laughing. I have been a lawn nut the past month and she thought it was hilarious that I potentially just killed half my back yard.

I did the reverse math. 1 ounce per 1,000 square feet is equivalent to 2.7 lbs per acre. I almost freaking doubled the max dosage on the packacking which is 1.5lbs per acre or 8 months of protection.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Well, I'd say you're pretty set for the fall, early winter, late winter, and spring apps. &#129325;

In all seriousness, you are probably OK. Do a search on Prodiamine over application. Someone else did the same thing in the spring this year. You can compare rates and the effects on the turf.


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> Well, I'd say you're pretty set for the fall, early winter, late winter, and spring apps. 🤭
> 
> In all seriousness, you are probably OK. Do a search on Prodiamine over application. Someone else did the same thing in the spring this year. You can compare rates and the effects on the turf.


Ill just wait it out for the fall application time zone when the soil hits 65 degrees.

I can't believe I spaced out that bad. lol :lol:


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Here is a discussion on over-application.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4250


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

calebbo said:


> Redtwin said:
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> 
> > Well, I'd say you're pretty set for the fall, early winter, late winter, and spring apps. 🤭
> ...


Did you apply the correct amount over the rest of the yard? Just skip the 2000 sq ft area in the fall and probably spring. I wouldn't hope for too much spreading of the Bermuda in that 2000 sq ft area for a while.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Your grass doesnt look like common Bermuda. Blades are to thin.
It is better that you overdosed in the fall than spring time. I did an accident in the spring and it was horrible trying to get my bermuda to spread


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

TN Hawkeye said:


> calebbo said:
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I did.

I mixed in 4oz into 2 gallons of water. My scale doesn't have increments small enough to read 0.183 oz so I just rounded up to 2 ounces.

I'm not too worried. It's the back half of my back yard closest to the public green lane. It's already pretty filled in. As long as it doesn't die I'm happy.


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

Tellycoleman said:


> Your grass doesnt look like common Bermuda. Blades are to thin.
> It is better that you overdosed in the fall than spring time. I did an accident in the spring and it was horrible trying to get my bermuda to spread


The builders aren't very responsive so I have no idea what sod was laid down then. Thanks for the information.


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## Bmossin (May 31, 2018)

calebbo said:


> I mixed in 4oz into 2 gallons of water. My scale doesn't have increments small enough to read 0.183 oz so I just rounded up to 2 ounces.


2oz per thousand still seems pretty high, or am I missing something or messing up the math?


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

calebbo said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
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I'm confused. The first time you applied 1oz per gallon. This time did you apply 2oz per gallon? Or did you mean .2oz per gallon in the sprayer?


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

TN Hawkeye said:


> calebbo said:
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I meant 0.2 oz per gallon. I put in 0.4 oz total in 2 gallons of water.


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

TN Hawkeye said:


> calebbo said:
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It was a typo, I meant 0.2 ounces.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

calebbo said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
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Happens to the best of us. Better to type it wrong than measure it wrong. :thumbup:


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

Update:

I got rid of the Craftsman Mower. It died on me.

I replaced it with a Honda HRR216VKA.

I also got a Fiskars Stay Sharp Max Reel Mower. I have it set at 1.43" (second setting)

I mowed today and am planning on putting down my Certainty and Celsius since it has been a couple of days since i put down the Prodiamine. I already watered in the Prodiamine as well (same day as I applied it).

I was reading the labels on Celsius and Certainty and had a few questions.

*Certainty*

Most of the control instructions state to use the 1.25 oz per acre mix ratio.

It states that *1.25 oz/acre* is equivalent to *5 small scoops into 2 gallons of water for 1,000 square feet. *

I have calibrated my *two gallon sprayer* to spray 1 gallon of water per 1,000 square feet. 

So is it okay to use 10 small scoops in 2 gallons of water to cover 2,000 square feet.

I am just trying to apply 5 scoops of product every 1,000 square feet right? The dilution shouldn't matter?

*Certainty*

I have to use the 3.2g/1,000 square feet ratio to kill crabgrass.

The max rate allowed is 4.8g/1,000 square feet per year.

So do you guys normally only need 1 coat of Certainty per year?

Or do you guys do the 3.2g/1,000 square feet coat once, then next time you do 1.6g/1,000 square feet?

I'm mixing both products into my sprayer. Doing a blanket spray to ensure I kill all my weeds.


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

What kind of weed is this?


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## calebbo (Jul 30, 2019)

Bump


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