# MQ's Liquid Lawn Fertilizing Plan



## Mightyquinn

I have gotten a few questions about how and what I was going to do this year with spraying ALL my fertilizer apps this year so I figured I would post it here so if anyone else has any questions or suggestions they can put them here.

A little back story, towards the end of last year I was really wanting to do this as I already have a good Sprayer and I already apply stuff at least twice a month. My current stash of fertilizer was getting low and I knew I was going to be needing to stock up again for the coming year. The current fertilizer I was using was a Lebanon NX-PRO Fairway grade fertilizer and was a pretty good fertilizer as it was 22-0-16 and had a very small prill size of SGN 145 and also contained Iron and some Micros and was about 60% slow release. The great thing about this Lebanon fertilizer was that the prill was homogenous, which basically means that the slow release component is the same no matter if you cut or break up the prill, so the slow release isn't effected. But even at that small of a prill size, it still sat on top of my turf for a good week or two before it moved down into the soil, which for me was not good as I use my groomer and catch all my clippings so this really pushed me even more towards the liquid side.

Late last year I started doing some research on the whole topic to see what was actually feasible to do and whether it would be cost effective to actually spray instead of using a granular fertilizer. With my initial searching I was going to use already mixed liquid fertilizer that had a slow release component but that was not economically feasible as the prices were very expensive plus having to pay shipping on top of that, I even inquired at Site One and even though it was a little cheaper it still wasn't viable to go that route.

Enter cheap Urea(46-0-0) and Ammonium Sulfate(21-0-0), these two heavy hitters are both water soluble and provide a big bang for the buck as they can easily be melted down in tap water and sprayed easily, I will get back to these two in a moment. I did a little more research and found that these two can be sprayed fairly easily but require more carrier(water) to be safely applied. Everything I read said to apply with AT LEAST 2-3 gallons of water/K and not to apply more than 1 lb on Nitrogen/K per application as the salts in the fertilizer can dry out the leaf blade and cause temporary browning of the lawn. I also found that after 4 hours of the fertilizer sitting on the leaf it will absorb basically all it can in those 4 hours and then can be rinsed off and into the soil.


























I also stumbled across Nitrogen Stabilizers, which can be added to the mix to help the Urea from volatilization, denitrification and leaching. It basically allows the nitrogen to stay in the soil longer and give a "slow release" effect. This is also the same basic ingredient in UFLEXX and UMAXX fertilizers, if you have heard of them before. I will say that this stuff isn't cheap as you can only buy it in 25 lb buckets but you only need .20-.40 oz. per pound of fertilizer so this bucket will last me 10-15 years 










I also needed to add Potassium but I DO NOT need Phosphorus as my recent soil test states that I have plenty in my soil. So I wasn't able to find any Potassium Sulfate (0-0-53*) locally (but I didn't look too hard) but I was able to find it here at Greenway Biotech. It was a little more than what I wanted to pay but I needed it and will buy me some time to hunt some down locally or with in an hour or two drive. I did just recently find it at [IMG=https://www.pestrong.com/878-sop-sulfate-of-potash-soluble-fertilizer-0-0-52-50-lb.html]Pestrong[/IMG] for a little cheaper and I may go this route if I can't source it locally but I would like to get it local to keep the costs down.










The last component to my fertilizer is going to be Iron. I did some extensive research on this too as I wanted to get away from FAS(Ferrous Ammonium Sulfate) and was looking for some chelated iron that would give a more lasting effect in the lawn. I finally decided on DPTA Iron as this looks to be the most suitable chelated iron for my pH level. I may do another write up later about all different types of chelated iron there is and what is suitable for what. DPTA iron will stay stable in soil pH up to 7.0. These types of iron are a lot more expensive than Ferrous Sulfate but will also be more available to the grass for a longer period of time. This is more of a luxury additive and could be omitted if it becomes too cost prohibitive.










Let me wrap this up for now and go over my plan and costs so everyone has a good idea of what's going on. I was going to wait until I actually started using all of this but why not get the info out there and let the great minds we have here go over this.

My plan going forward is to apply 1lb of Urea, AS and PS with 2-4 oz of Iron/1,000 sq/ft(67-0-53) which will give me a little over half a pound of Nitrogen and a half pound of Potassium and I will be adding this when I spray my PGR so every 3 weeks or so I will be applying this to the lawn. I will also be adding the Nitrogen Stabilizer to help lengthen the effects of the Nitrogen. This is all just my base plan and is subject to change depending on the outcomes of my spraying. The one great thing about this plan is I can basically add or subtract anything I want at anytime I want to adjust it to current growing conditions. I also plan to spray in the evenings and water it in the following morning to get at least 4 hours on the leaf surface and to reduce any chance of burning the turf.










*COSTS*

Urea $15 for 50 lbs @ SiteOne
Ammonium Sulfate $22.55 for 50 lbs @ SiteOne
Potassium Sulfate $45 for 25 lbs @ GreenwayBiotech.com 
DPTA Iron $50 for 5 lbs @ Pestrong.com
U-Plus Nitrogen Stabilizer $193* for 25 lbs @ SiteOne

* When I inquired about this product there, they had never heard of it and didn't know exactly what it was and I didn't know exactly how much a bucket of it was going for. After they punched in the item number and brought it up, the guy was like "Is this stuff made of gold!!!" :lol: He said it goes for $300 but said to hang on and did some things on the computer and came back with the price quoted above which was WAY better. I think he gave me the contractors pricing on it which was greatly appreciated :thumbup:

I have enough Nitrogen to last me a good 2-3 years, the only thing I will need to buy more of is the Potassium Sulfate and Iron so my fertilizer budget is greatly reduced and if I can find the Potassium Sulfate locally it will even bring my cost of application down even more.

Cost per application over 8K of lawn

Urea=$2.40
Ammonium Sulfate=$3.61
Potassium Sulfate=$14.40
Iron=$10.00
U-Plus=$1.53

*TOTAL=*$31.94

This is the first time I have actually added everything up and it seems a little high but it's still way cheaper than going with pre packaged liquids and If I can source my Potassium Sulfate locally it will dramatically cut down on the costs and as you can see also is that even with the initial high cost of the U-Plus, it's price per application is relatively low. I understand that what I am doing is not for everyone but I am always willing to try something new that may give me an edge and take it to the next level.

I'm sure I left something out or forgot to mention something but If I remember I will just add it to the thread :thumbup:


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## Mightyquinn

I also updated what I did to my sprayer HERE


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## raldridge2315

Great write-up. Thanks for the input. I intend to use urea and potassium sulfate plus Blade Iron this year. I used Milo last year, but that just gets too expensive. I was able to buy Potassium Sulfate (they kept calling it Potash) at a local farm supply (feed and fert) last year for about $15 /50 lb. I think the County Coop has it also.


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## gene_stl

Very nice write up! Thank you. :thumbup:


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## Fishnugget

Looks promising MQ, looks like you did your research. I will be following to see your results!


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## Mightyquinn

raldridge2315 said:


> Great write-up. Thanks for the input. I intend to use urea and potassium sulfate plus Blade Iron this year. I used Milo last year, but that just gets too expensive. I was able to buy Potassium Sulfate (they kept calling it Potash) at a local farm supply (feed and fert) last year for about $15 /50 lb. I think the County Coop has it also.


Yeah, I need to check there as we do have some Crop Production Services around here. Yeah, I get the same "Potash" around here too, they like to call it Sulfate of Potash.


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## Ridgerunner

Great thread!
@Mightyquinn How did you determine the application rate for the iron chelate (0.2 oz/M correct?)?


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## Mightyquinn

Ridgerunner said:


> Great thread!
> @Mightyquinn How did you determine the application rate for the iron chelate (0.2 oz/M correct?)?


It's recommended on the label to apply 2-4 oz. per K

Thanks :thumbup:


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## Ridgerunner

Label, huh? Novel idea. I guess I should pay more attention to them. :dumb:


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## SGrabs33

Very nice! Looking forward to seeing your results :thumbup:


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## gijoe4500

Great info on your plan. I'd be interested in reading your potential future chelated iron post. I've got a PH around 7.5, and I know that causes issues with iron in the soil.


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## SimonR

I adopted a hybrid granular- foliar program this season and one thing I found is the rate for foliar apps is way way less than a granular app.

I use a 16-0-0 8%Fe with Stabilised N and the label rate is 250-500ml per 100m2. What I found was a very magrinal difference at the high rate compared to the lower end rate. Even at 500ml (roughly 80g actual N) there was some observed leaf tip burn. My advice would be to start really low and build up as I feel there is probably a tipping point at which the leaf can only absorb so much nutrients before it becomes a waste and increases burn potential.

Also always ensure there is water available to the plant before you apply. I would water the day of application and then a quick wash off after 6 hours.

I understand your premise to then wash off the excess into the soil for root uptake, but thats where I think having a granular there as a slow burn and to supply your trace elements as well.

Good luck, I think foliar feeding is such a better way to go but you do need a bit more cautious to ensure that you meet the plant demands with the application rate.

Simon


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## Iriasj2009

Thanks for sharing mighty! I will be on a liquid fert program myself.


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## Movingshrub

Is your ammonium sulfate *actually* ammonium sulfate? The  Site One label  I saw for site one said 21% Urea Nitrogen, derived from Ammonium Sulfate. I am making the assumption that urea nitrogen derived from ammonium sulfate and ammonium sulfate aren't the same thing; if they are the same, someone please clarify.

Did you consider ammonium nitrate? Actually, does *anywhere* still sell ammonium nitrate?



Mightyquinn said:


> I may do another write up later about all different types of chelated iron there is and what is suitable for what


This question may play into the type of iron decision. Did you consider any kind of multi-micro mix that includes iron?
There are a few soluble micro nutrient products from Brexil/Axilo; one contains Mg, B, Cu, Fe, Mn, Mo, and Z while the other contains Mg, B, Fe, Mn, and Zn. I'm still trying to get a handle on the concept of how the soil can contain all the necessary nutrients, be at the correct pH for the type of turf grass your planting, and potentially not be able to get to the nutrients either due to a lack of mobility of those nutrients or due to the elements being tied up as unavailable compounds in the soil.

I would be interested in reading that write up regarding iron type per application. I have been trying to figure out what goes into developing a fertilizer plan.

I was looking at screaming green, as an example, and trying to figure out which mixture of urea, ammonium sulfate, and milorganite, would be involved to produce a comparable product, at lower cost per pound of nitrogen.

Regarding the nitrogen stabilizer, what benefit are you looking to get considering you will be applying a fast release product every three weeks? I wouldn't think you would have any color drop off from lack of N over a three week period. Trying to smooth out peaks and valleys of nitrogen in the soil? If I understand, you are applying one pound of urea and one pound if ammonium sulfate for 0.68 pounds of N per 1,000 square feet. My understanding is that Bermuda generally calls for between 1-1.5lb of N per 1ks/sqft. So, I take it your goal of the stabilizer is to get away with a reduced overall input of nitrogen, although not that much of a reduction.


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## Mightyquinn

SimonR said:


> I adopted a hybrid granular- foliar program this season and one thing I found is the rate for foliar apps is way way less than a granular app.
> 
> I use a 16-0-0 8%Fe with Stabilised N and the label rate is 250-500ml per 100m2. What I found was a very magrinal difference at the high rate compared to the lower end rate. Even at 500ml (roughly 80g actual N) there was some observed leaf tip burn. My advice would be to start really low and build up as I feel there is probably a tipping point at which the leaf can only absorb so much nutrients before it becomes a waste and increases burn potential.
> 
> Also always ensure there is water available to the plant before you apply. I would water the day of application and then a quick wash off after 6 hours.
> 
> I understand your premise to then wash off the excess into the soil for root uptake, but thats where I think having a granular there as a slow burn and to supply your trace elements as well.
> 
> Good luck, I think foliar feeding is such a better way to go but you do need a bit more cautious to ensure that you meet the plant demands with the application rate.
> 
> Simon


Very good info Simon and I was thinking along the same lines but I know going into this there will be some trial and error. I plan on spraying in the evening here right before sunset so there will be minimal sun exposure and we also get a lot of dew forming at night too which I'm hoping will hold it over until the early morning when the irrigation goes off to water it in. I am curious at what your dilution rate is on the fertilizer you are using? How much water are you using per 100m2?


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## Mightyquinn

Movingshrub said:


> Is your ammonium sulfate *actually* ammonium sulfate? The  Site One label  I saw for site one said 21% Urea Nitrogen, derived from Ammonium Sulfate. I am making the assumption that urea nitrogen derived from ammonium sulfate and ammonium sulfate aren't the same thing; if they are the same, someone please clarify.
> 
> Did you consider ammonium nitrate? Actually, does *anywhere* still sell ammonium nitrate?
> 
> 
> 
> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I may do another write up later about all different types of chelated iron there is and what is suitable for what
> 
> 
> 
> This question may play into the type of iron decision. Did you consider any kind of multi-micro mix that includes iron?
> There are a few soluble micro nutrient products from Brexil/Axilo; one contains Mg, B, Cu, Fe, Mn, Mo, and Z while the other contains Mg, B, Fe, Mn, and Zn. I'm still trying to get a handle on the concept of how the soil can contain all the necessary nutrients, be at the correct pH for the type of turf grass your planting, and potentially not be able to get to the nutrients either due to a lack of mobility of those nutrients or due to the elements being tied up as unavailable compounds in the soil.
> 
> I would be interested in reading that write up regarding iron type per application. I have been trying to figure out what goes into developing a fertilizer plan.
> 
> I was looking at screaming green, as an example, and trying to figure out which mixture of urea, ammonium sulfate, and milorganite, would be involved to produce a comparable product, at lower cost per pound of nitrogen.
> 
> Regarding the nitrogen stabilizer, what benefit are you looking to get considering you will be applying a fast release product every three weeks? I wouldn't think you would have any color drop off from lack of N over a three week period. Trying to smooth out peaks and valleys of nitrogen in the soil? If I understand, you are applying one pound of urea and one pound if ammonium sulfate for 0.68 pounds of N per 1,000 square feet. My understanding is that Bermuda generally calls for between 1-1.5lb of N per 1ks/sqft. So, I take it your goal of the stabilizer is to get away with a reduced overall input of nitrogen, although not that much of a reduction.
Click to expand...

Let's see if I can answer some of your questions MS? 

The Ammonium Sulfate that I got came in a plastic lined paper bag (which I hate) so I transferred the 100lbs I bought to the Lowe's buckets. All the AS I have ever bought had a label similar to this Ammonium Sulfate. AS and Urea are two DIFFERENT types of Nitrogen. AS doesn't need to be broken down to be available to the plant and is immediately available while Urea needs to be broken down into a usable form first which is why you can loose some of it during that process.

I haven't every used UAN before and I don't think it's as readily available as the other two I am using and I haven't really done much research on it either so I'm not aware of it's strengths or shortcomings.

I did look into using a liquid Chelated Iron but once I did the math, it wasn't as cost effective and most of it is not as high quality as the stuff I will be trying out. I may eventually go to it depending on how it goes with what I have. As for the Micro's, I'm not really too concerned about those right now and I still have some of the "Micro Sulfate Powders" left over from my ATY days that I can add to my mix whenever I want if the need arises.

You could technically mix your own granular fertilizer and it's just some simple math but I'm not sure on what the cost saving would be. I'm not a big fan of Milorganite as I have used it in the past and never got the results others have had and it's terribly expensive down here in the South. I was applying it HEAVILY and the lawn still looked dull until I gave it some slow release nitrogen I had.

For the Nitrogen Stabilizer, yes, that is my goal is to get as much Nitrogen as I apply to the grass with as little waste as possible and to avoid any peaks and valleys. Like SimonR mentioned above, when spraying fertilizers you tend to get a more efficient use out of them so you will theoretically need less but getting the same or better results. Since I have very sandy soil most nutrients don't hang around really long so using a Stabilizer should help it hang in the soil longer and get used up by the grass. The .67 lbs/K that I am applying is just a starting point and I may adjust that up or down depending on the results and how frequently I am applying it as it will be in concert with the PGR which I will be following the GDD calendar for it.


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## Bunnysarefat

Love the plan. Iron delivery is so complex but so critical to get your grass to really pop. It drives up the cost quick. I've been very satisfied with the results from this product 
Grow More 7450 8-Ounce Organic Iron Chelate Concentrate

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004G1AON2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_oSoQAb6PC7MSH
Which is on sale for $5 so I bought several just now 

Probably not as cost effective as a home brew mix but the results were really satisfactory for me. I never used as much water as the label calls for when spraying, just watered it in in a similar fashion as you outlined.


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## LawnNerd

Nice write-up MQ!

Last fall when doing the cool season fall dance, i switched from granular to spraying Urea. It became way to cumbersome to try and sprinkle out 1/2# of Urea on 1K, and that tends to be a very uneven distribution of the N. I found that doubling the water (2gal / 1K) never gave me any burning, and since i was mentally calibrated to do 1gal / k i would spray 1gal walking N-S and then the 2nd gallon would walk E-W. You can't beat the evenness of the coverage. Tick more work, but the results speak man.

Also, i know it's a bit of a hike out here to GSO, but this is where i go for all my things turf. http://www.green-resource.com/

They sell to regular joe's, but i would call them to see what they have in stock. Their website is never updated.


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## Mightyquinn

LawnNerd said:


> Nice write-up MQ!
> 
> Also, i know it's a bit of a hike out here to GSO, but this is where i go for all my things turf. http://www.green-resource.com/
> 
> They sell to regular joe's, but i would call them to see what they have in stock. Their website is never updated.


Thank you :thumbup:

Yeah, that place is a little bit of a drive about 2 hours away or more but I'm not opposed to making the trek if I can find some Potassium Sulfate "locally" I have a few other places I'm going to call when the time comes to get some more, I have bought fertilizer from Southern Seeds in Middlesex,NC before and they had a great assortment of products and were very helpful and are a little closer


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## LawnNerd

Mightyquinn said:


> LawnNerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice write-up MQ!
> 
> Also, i know it's a bit of a hike out here to GSO, but this is where i go for all my things turf. http://www.green-resource.com/
> 
> They sell to regular joe's, but i would call them to see what they have in stock. Their website is never updated.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you :thumbup:
> 
> Yeah, that place is a little bit of a drive about 2 hours away or more but I'm not opposed to making the trek if I can find some Potassium Sulfate "locally" I have a few other places I'm going to call when the time comes to get some more, I have bought fertilizer from Southern Seeds in Middlesex,NC before and they had a great assortment of products and were very helpful and are a little closer
Click to expand...

Well when you come to install that Elay reel i'm going to win, you can swing by there on your way back! :lol:


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## WarEagle26

Mightyquinn said:


> My plan going forward is to apply 1lb of Urea, AS and PS with 2-4 oz of Iron/1,000 sq/ft(67-0-53) which will give me a little over half a pound of Nitrogen and a half pound of Potassium and I will be adding this when I spray my PGR so every 3 weeks or so I will be applying this to the lawn.
> ...
> I have enough Nitrogen to last me a good 2-3 years, the only thing I will need to buy more of is the Potassium Sulfate and Iron so my fertilizer budget is greatly reduced and if I can find the Potassium Sulfate locally it will even bring my cost of application down even more.


I may have missed something, but I'm confused how you are able to get 2-3 years out of those two 50# bags of nitrogen. If you are spraying 8k of lawn each application and using 1lb/1k (8lb/application) of each product won't that only last you about 6 applications?

EDIT: Nevermind, I guess you never said you only bought 1 bag of each of those products.  Not sure why I was thinking that. You simply bought enough product to last you a couple of years...got it.


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## wardconnor

LawnNerd said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LawnNerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice write-up MQ!
> 
> Also, i know it's a bit of a hike out here to GSO, but this is where i go for all my things turf. http://www.green-resource.com/
> 
> They sell to regular joe's, but i would call them to see what they have in stock. Their website is never updated.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you :thumbup:
> 
> Yeah, that place is a little bit of a drive about 2 hours away or more but I'm not opposed to making the trek if I can find some Potassium Sulfate "locally" I have a few other places I'm going to call when the time comes to get some more, I have bought fertilizer from Southern Seeds in Middlesex,NC before and they had a great assortment of products and were very helpful and are a little closer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well when you come to install that Eley reel i'm going to win, you can swing by there on your way back! :lol:
Click to expand...

MQ wont be able to do any swinging by anywhere because he wont have his wheels. He will be on the Greyhound bus line. You will have to pick him up and drop him off at the bus terminal. See quote from other thread below.



Ware said:


> ..........And Mightyquinn has offered to hop on a Greyhound with his tool bag and come install it. :lol:


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## LawnNerd

wardconnor said:


> LawnNerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well when you come to install that Eley reel i'm going to win, you can swing by there on your way back! :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> MQ wont be able to do any swinging by anywhere because he wont have his wheels. He will be on the Greyhound bus line. You will have to pick him up and drop him off at the bus terminal. See quote from other thread below.
> 
> 
> 
> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..........And Mightyquinn has offered to hop on a Greyhound with his tool bag and come install it. :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

And @Ware 's statement made sense at that time because i hadn't yet entered the drawing. But I entered soon enough, and that all but assures me that i'll win. No Greyhounds needed. lol


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Thoughts on adding fulvic acid to your mix?


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## Mightyquinn

I haven't really thought about it. I do have some GCF RGS I plan to use but mainly to use it up.


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## Fishnugget

Hey MQ, I just realized but I bought the liquid Iron form on amazon. The next time, I will buy the granular stuff and dissolve. I paid about 33 bucks for 1 gallon of iron. I know the granular form is cheaper and will last longer.

Check it out...I am just waiting for the Teejet tips to arrive so I can begin spraying...I cant wait!


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## Mightyquinn

Fishnugget said:


> Hey MQ, I just realized but I bought the liquid Iron form on amazon. The next time, I will buy the granular stuff and dissolve. I paid about 33 bucks for 1 gallon of iron. I know the granular form is cheaper and will last longer.
> 
> Check it out...I am just waiting for the Teejet tips to arrive so I can begin spraying.


What's the recommended application rate of the liquid iron you got? 6-9 oz/K? What are you using as a sprayer?


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## Fishnugget

Sorry I forgot to post the pic...
To answer your question, the instructions say a pint/1000 sq ft. but I think I will just try 1-2oz/1000sq ft.

I read some reviews stating their lawn turned black and "a little goes a long way".

I just want to take precautions and will post some before and after. The product is in concentrated form so a little probably goes a long way.


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## SimonR

Mightyquinn said:


> SimonR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I adopted a hybrid granular- foliar program this season and one thing I found is the rate for foliar apps is way way less than a granular app.
> 
> I use a 16-0-0 8%Fe with Stabilised N and the label rate is 250-500ml per 100m2. What I found was a very magrinal difference at the high rate compared to the lower end rate. Even at 500ml (roughly 80g actual N) there was some observed leaf tip burn. My advice would be to start really low and build up as I feel there is probably a tipping point at which the leaf can only absorb so much nutrients before it becomes a waste and increases burn potential.
> 
> Also always ensure there is water available to the plant before you apply. I would water the day of application and then a quick wash off after 6 hours.
> 
> I understand your premise to then wash off the excess into the soil for root uptake, but thats where I think having a granular there as a slow burn and to supply your trace elements as well.
> 
> Good luck, I think foliar feeding is such a better way to go but you do need a bit more cautious to ensure that you meet the plant demands with the application rate.
> 
> Simon
> 
> 
> 
> Very good info Simon and I was thinking along the same lines but I know going into this there will be some trial and error. I plan on spraying in the evening here right before sunset so there will be minimal sun exposure and we also get a lot of dew forming at night too which I'm hoping will hold it over until the early morning when the irrigation goes off to water it in. I am curious at what your dilution rate is on the fertilizer you are using? How much water are you using per 100m2?
Click to expand...

Around 4L per 100m2 which works out pretty close to 1Gal per M. I've also tried applying to a wet lawn too as a quasi increase in dilution rate which could be an option rather than having to double up on your spray apps or change nozzles etc


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## Mightyquinn

@SimonR at your dilution rate you may see some tip burn from what I have researched. I'm going to be applying at 3 times that rate, so it should help alleviate any tip burn.


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## Tellycoleman

Anyone ever look at these products by planet marvel?
They are available at advanced turf solutions. I like the Bermuda Special 25-5-20 PLUS as far as water soluble ferts.


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## Mightyquinn

Tellycoleman said:


> Anyone ever look at these products by planet marvel?
> They are available at advanced turf solutions. I like the Bermuda Special 25-5-20 PLUS as far as water soluble ferts.


Very interesting product range but it looks like they just service the Midwest. Curious as to what there prices are too.


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## Tellycoleman

Mightyquinn said:


> Tellycoleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone ever look at these products by planet marvel?
> They are available at advanced turf solutions. I like the Bermuda Special 25-5-20 PLUS as far as water soluble ferts.
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting product range but it looks like they just service the Midwest. Curious as to what there prices are too.
Click to expand...

You can get it from ebay for about $35-$45 for a 25lb bag
You can also have it ordered at any advanced turf not sure if site one sales it
It's under the nutriculture brand
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Plant-Marvel-Nutriculture-Seed-Starter-Special-Fertilizer-16-45-7-Blend-25Lb-Bag/401429236233?hash=item5d770c0a09:g:rGsAAOSwmphaRsJV
Or 
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200675399_200675399?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Lawn%20%2B%20Garden%20%3E%20Lawn%20Spreaders&utm_campaign=TurboTurf&utm_content=57660&gclid=Cj0KCQjwkd3VBRDzARIsAAdGzMB9qc4l6Mip0T-FTO2-oUz6dPJUtB4qjdno-qjimw5uyFiO-Mc0krUaAikjEALw_wcB


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## thegrassfactor

Tellycoleman said:


> Anyone ever look at these products by planet marvel?
> They are available at advanced turf solutions. I like the Bermuda Special 25-5-20 PLUS as far as water soluble ferts.


That's an awesome soluble fertilizer. All the nutriculture stuff is top notch primo!


----------



## osuturfman

thegrassfactor said:


> Tellycoleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone ever look at these products by planet marvel?
> They are available at advanced turf solutions. I like the Bermuda Special 25-5-20 PLUS as far as water soluble ferts.
> 
> 
> 
> That's an awesome soluble fertilizer. All the nutriculture stuff is top notch primo!
Click to expand...

Indeed they are and should be in the $30-$45/bag range.

Bulldog also has a nice lineup of easy to use soluble products. Have a look:

http://www.sqm.com/us/watersolubleNPKs/bulldog25520.aspx


----------



## osuturfman

osuturfman said:


> thegrassfactor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tellycoleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone ever look at these products by planet marvel?
> They are available at advanced turf solutions. I like the Bermuda Special 25-5-20 PLUS as far as water soluble ferts.
> 
> 
> 
> That's an awesome soluble fertilizer. All the nutriculture stuff is top notch primo!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed they are and should be in the $30-$45/bag range.
> 
> Bulldog also has a nice lineup of easy to use soluble products. Have a look:
> 
> http://www.sqm.com/us/watersolubleNPKs/bulldog25520.aspx
> 
> I'll also add that Site One has a good offering of soluble Lesco products that are easy work with.
Click to expand...


----------



## Mightyquinn

osuturfman said:


> osuturfman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thegrassfactor said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's an awesome soluble fertilizer. All the nutriculture stuff is top notch primo!
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed they are and should be in the $30-$45/bag range.
> 
> Bulldog also has a nice lineup of easy to use soluble products. Have a look:
> 
> http://www.sqm.com/us/watersolubleNPKs/bulldog25520.aspx
> 
> I'll also add that Site One has a good offering of soluble Lesco products that are easy work with.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I did look at those when I was researching this little project :thumbup: Good to know osuturfman :thumbup:


----------



## Davie_Gravy

@Mightyquinn what do you think of this for an online source of K https://www.gardenmaker.com/organic-potassium-sulfate


----------



## Mightyquinn

Davie_Gravy said:


> @Mightyquinn what do you think of this for an online source of K https://www.gardenmaker.com/organic-potassium-sulfate


It seems to be about the same as THIS with shipping costs. Your best bet would be to find it locally as it would save you a ton on shipping.


----------



## ryeguy

Why are you looking to get away from FAS?


----------



## Mightyquinn

ryeguy said:


> Why are you looking to get away from FAS?


Mainly just to try something different and to see the effects of it. This off season I was doing some research on Iron and discovered that their are different types of chelated iron out there depending on your soil pH. While FAS is a good product and a cheap way to add some color to the lawn, I was wanting something with a little more staying power and plus I was planning on spraying all my fertilizer applications this year and wanted to step it up a notch.


----------



## Greendoc

Have you heard of FEature 6-0-0? That is the iron and micronutrient source I add to my fertilizer applications. It is chelated with EDTA and Citric Acid. https://www.lovelandproducts.com/product/feature-soluble-6-0-0 3 lb. covers 1/2 acre at the highest rate. Really affordable as well. @$15 for the 3 lb.


----------



## Mightyquinn

Greendoc said:


> Have you heard of FEature 6-0-0? That is the iron and micronutrient source I add to my fertilizer applications. It is chelated with EDTA and Citric Acid. https://www.lovelandproducts.com/product/feature-soluble-6-0-0 3 lb. covers 1/2 acre at the highest rate. Really affordable as well. @$15 for the 3 lb.


No I have not, very interesting and I was able to find it here at e Pest Hero for $20 for a 3lb bag with Free Shipping.


----------



## Greendoc

This gets grass green. Even on alkaline and salty clay soil. A domination line is definitely made when using this. I routinely use it with soluble NPK without forming precipitates or insoluble layers.


----------



## Spammage

I've been looking for something like this, so I ordered some. Thanks @Greendoc and @Mightyquinn !


----------



## trc

Agreed FEature looks promising @ $20 shipped for 3lb. Just ordered as well to include in my pgr tank mix. :thumbup:

Whats rate per K are you having success with @Greendoc? Label states 1-2 oz per K.


----------



## Greendoc

I use 2 oz per K in at least 1 gallon of water.


----------



## Mightyquinn

I'm thinking of buying some too as this seems to be a pretty good price and product. You can get 15lbs for $88 which I plan to do if it works good :thumbup:


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Thanks for the info about FEature @Greendoc. I bought some too and will throw it in my GCF applications as well.


----------



## Mightyquinn

Colonel K0rn said:


> Thanks for the info about FEature @Greendoc. I bought some too and will throw it in my GCF applications as well.


I bought a 3lb bag too!!


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Mightyquinn said:


> Colonel K0rn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info about FEature @Greendoc. I bought some too and will throw it in my GCF applications as well.
> 
> 
> 
> I bought a 3lb bag too!!
Click to expand...

I bought it after I saw you got it haha.


----------



## ryeguy

Is an N stabilizer really necessary if you're reapplying every 3 weeks? In this post osuturfman mentions they were "shown to be ineffective relative to additional cost versus making another application of Urea."


----------



## Greendoc

if applying at 14-21 day intervals, I prefer Ammonium Sulfate for alkaline soils and Calcium Nitrate for acid soils. Only advantage to Urea is a lower salt index. But, most grasses can take 0.2 lb of N in 2 gallons of spray barring application during a lack of water. If one wants to apply more than 0.2 lb of N. Either the application volume goes up to 5 gallons or more, or else the application is watered in lightly immediately after spraying.


----------



## Mightyquinn

ryeguy said:


> Is an N stabilizer really necessary if you're reapplying every 3 weeks? In this post osuturfman mentions they were "shown to be ineffective relative to additional cost versus making another application of Urea."


I look at it as an insurance policy for what I am applying and I'm probably going to play around with the amounts I apply too. I think of it as something new to explore to see where it goes


----------



## Greendoc

Another observation. Lawns with adequate micronutrient fertility are no longer dependent on high Nitrogen levels to stay green. My purpose for applying Nitrogen is to replace tissues lost to mowing, repair from traffic or other injury, or to maintain decomposition of thatch and organic matter. If I want grass green, that color comes from a product like FEature, which contains Iron, Magnesium, Manganese, and Sulfur. I just looked at a bag, it seems like it is not far from the FAS concoction except it is chelated even further with EDTA and Citric. Looking over my records, once a lawn is grown in, I am only applying a maximum of 1/2 lb N per 1000 sq ft per month. Exception to this is if I am collecting clippings. Then rates go to 3/4 lb per month.


----------



## SGrabs33

@Greendoc Is this based on Zoysia or Bermuda?


----------



## Greendoc

Bermuda. Zoysia not in grow in is at no more than 1/4 lb N unless I am collecting clippings. If clippings are being collected, rate is 1/2 lb N per month.


----------



## J_nick

I for one think all this is way too over complicated. I'll just drop granular :bandit:


----------



## Greendoc

For sure. I saw the video @thegrassfactor posted on youtube about his bulk blended granular fertilizer order. He has an easy program to administer. Same soil, same grass, piece of cake.


----------



## stotea

raldridge2315 said:


> Great write-up. Thanks for the input. I intend to use urea and potassium sulfate plus Blade Iron this year. I used Milo last year, but that just gets too expensive. I was able to buy Potassium Sulfate (they kept calling it Potash) at a local farm supply (feed and fert) last year for about $15 /50 lb. I think the County Coop has it also.


Dang, I just paid $40 for 50 lbs. from a local feed mill. Oh well, still better than online prices.

Edit 4/18/18: I didn't actually pay $40 for 50 lbs. like I initially stated - that was just the price quoted to me over the phone. Today I actually picked up and paid for the product, and they said it was only $26 ($0.52/lb.)!


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Mightyquinn said:


> Colonel K0rn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info about FEature Greendoc. I bought some too and will throw it in my GCF applications as well.
> 
> 
> 
> I bought a 3lb bag too!!
Click to expand...

Hey, my bag is in Jacksonville. Looks like we should have them either tomorrow or day after tomorrow.


----------



## Mightyquinn

So this came in the mail today!!! I probably won't use it until later in the year as I already have some chelated Iron that I plan to use but this should last until the end of the season and if it works good I will be stocking up on it. I do like on the bag it states that it won't stain concrete since it's chelated so that will be interesting to see if it really does or not that alone may be worth paying extra for over FAS


----------



## SGrabs33

@Mightyquinn Very interested to see how this works. I'm not using FAS on my front yard because of the sidewalk and driveway proximity. Would like to find a solution and maybe this is it!


----------



## Mightyquinn

SGrabs33 said:


> @Mightyquinn Very interested to see how this works. I'm not using FAS on my front yard because of the sidewalk and driveway proximity. Would like to find a solution and maybe this is it!


I'll have to remember to keep an eye out for the stains when I spray the other chelated iron that I have as it should perform the same I would think.


----------



## SGrabs33

@Mightyquinn Ok, now that I know that I will be asking :thumbup:


----------



## Greendoc

Mightyquinn said:


> So this came in the mail today!!! I probably won't use it until later in the year as I already have some chelated Iron that I plan to use but this should last until the end of the season and if it works good I will be stocking up on it. I do like on the bag it states that it won't stain concrete since it's chelated so that will be interesting to see if it really does or not that alone may be worth paying extra for over FAS


I hook up to a customer's tap and wash down if I accidentally get any on their concrete. Before this was around, I used to use a lot of FAS+Potassium Nitrate as the fertilizer for lawns. FEature gives me time to wash off before it stains. FAS, no way. I remember having to wash down areas with either Citric or Phosphoric. The worst one was when I had my spray rig hose across a driveway and the fitting between the 100 ft segments leaked. Customer was pizzed until I washed it with Phosphoric. Left a huge orange spot right in the middle.


----------



## Stro3579

What liquid Fertilizer do you guys recommend? I want something I can spray through my Chaplin push sprayer. Will be spraying 13k sq ft. I am not sure if a soluble will work in my sprayer.


----------



## stotea

Stro3579 said:


> What liquid Fertilizer do you guys recommend? I want something I can spray through my Chaplin push sprayer. Will be spraying 13k sq ft. I am not sure if a soluble will work in my sprayer.


Why wouldn't a soluble fertilizer work with any given sprayer? The only related issue I've heard of is potential for suspended solids to clog fine-mesh filters. That shouldn't apply here, though.


----------



## Mightyquinn

stotea said:


> Stro3579 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What liquid Fertilizer do you guys recommend? I want something I can spray through my Chaplin push sprayer. Will be spraying 13k sq ft. I am not sure if a soluble will work in my sprayer.
> 
> 
> 
> Why wouldn't a soluble fertilizer work with any given sprayer? The only related issue I've heard of is potential for suspended solids to clog fine-mesh filters. That shouldn't apply here, though.
Click to expand...

Depending on the quality of the Urea or AS you buy, it may have some "garbage" in it after you melt it down. I have an old flower sieve that I can use to pour the solution through it to get these particles out but my sprayer already has an inline filter that catches everything before the pump. I'm not sure if the Chapin has one or not. With all that being said, Urea or AS should melt down relatively easily in water and should be able to be sprayed through your Chapin.


----------



## Stro3579

Mightyquinn said:


> stotea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stro3579 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What liquid Fertilizer do you guys recommend? I want something I can spray through my Chaplin push sprayer. Will be spraying 13k sq ft. I am not sure if a soluble will work in my sprayer.
> 
> 
> 
> Why wouldn't a soluble fertilizer work with any given sprayer? The only related issue I've heard of is potential for suspended solids to clog fine-mesh filters. That shouldn't apply here, though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Depending on the quality of the Urea or AS you buy, it may have some "garbage" in it after you melt it down. I have an old flower sieve that I can use to pour the solution through it to get these particles out but my sprayer already has an inline filter that catches everything before the pump. I'm not sure if the Chapin has one or not. With all that being said, Urea or AS should melt down relatively easily in water and should be able to be sprayed through your Chapin.
Click to expand...

Thanks, where can I get Urea? Also what's the best process to mix it so I dont damage my pump? Not sure if the Chaplin has a inline filter either. I prefer to be safe.


----------



## stotea

Mightyquinn said:


> Depending on the quality of the Urea or AS you buy, it may have some "garbage" in it after you melt it down. I have an old flower sieve that I can use to pour the solution through it to get these particles out but my sprayer already has an inline filter that catches everything before the pump. I'm not sure if the Chapin has one or not. With all that being said, Urea or AS should melt down relatively easily in water and should be able to be sprayed through your Chapin.


Ah, didn't realize that. Thanks for the info.



Stro3579 said:


> Thanks, where can I get Urea? Also what's the best process to mix it so I dont damage my pump? Not sure if the Chaplin has a inline filter either. I prefer to be safe.


The most economical place to buy urea is a local feed mill/ag co-op since you wouldn't need to pay for shipping. Otherwise, it can be found numerous places online. Lots of people like to mix it in a 5-gallon bucket and then pour the solution into the sprayer.


----------



## Ware

Using a Mixing Arm for Lawn Chemicals


----------



## Stro3579

Ware said:


> Using a Mixing Arm for Lawn Chemicals


Thanks


----------



## Stro3579

stotea said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on the quality of the Urea or AS you buy, it may have some "garbage" in it after you melt it down. I have an old flower sieve that I can use to pour the solution through it to get these particles out but my sprayer already has an inline filter that catches everything before the pump. I'm not sure if the Chapin has one or not. With all that being said, Urea or AS should melt down relatively easily in water and should be able to be sprayed through your Chapin.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, didn't realize that. Thanks for the info.
> 
> 
> 
> Stro3579 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, where can I get Urea? Also what's the best process to mix it so I dont damage my pump? Not sure if the Chaplin has a inline filter either. I prefer to be safe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The most economical place to buy urea is a local feed mill/ag co-op since you wouldn't need to pay for shipping. Otherwise, it can be found numerous places online. Lots of people like to mix it in a 5-gallon bucket and then pour the solution into the sprayer.
Click to expand...

Thanks


----------



## Stro3579

The reason I chose to go liquid is because my backyard is on a slope and I feel like my granules are getting washed away. Not sure if this is the best option or not.


----------



## Fishnugget

Mightyquinn said:


> So this came in the mail today!!! I probably won't use it until later in the year as I already have some chelated Iron that I plan to use but this should last until the end of the season and if it works good I will be stocking up on it. I do like on the bag it states that it won't stain concrete since it's chelated so that will be interesting to see if it really does or not that alone may be worth paying extra for over FAS


Look forward to seeing your results as I just got a few Iron stains on my backyard curbing. It really is hard to avoid if you want to get right up to the edge. Where did you purchase and how much if you dont mind me asking?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Fishnugget said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So this came in the mail today!!! I probably won't use it until later in the year as I already have some chelated Iron that I plan to use but this should last until the end of the season and if it works good I will be stocking up on it. I do like on the bag it states that it won't stain concrete since it's chelated so that will be interesting to see if it really does or not that alone may be worth paying extra for over FAS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look forward to seeing your results as I just got a few Iron stains on my backyard curbing. It really is hard to avoid if you want to get right up to the edge. Where did you purchase and how much if you dont mind me asking?
Click to expand...

I bought mine at ePestHero
It's $20 for a 3 lb bag. The more you buy the cheaper it gets.


----------



## Mightyquinn

Stro3579 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stotea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why wouldn't a soluble fertilizer work with any given sprayer? The only related issue I've heard of is potential for suspended solids to clog fine-mesh filters. That shouldn't apply here, though.
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on the quality of the Urea or AS you buy, it may have some "garbage" in it after you melt it down. I have an old flower sieve that I can use to pour the solution through it to get these particles out but my sprayer already has an inline filter that catches everything before the pump. I'm not sure if the Chapin has one or not. With all that being said, Urea or AS should melt down relatively easily in water and should be able to be sprayed through your Chapin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks, where can I get Urea? Also what's the best process to mix it so I dont damage my pump? Not sure if the Chaplin has a inline filter either. I prefer to be safe.
Click to expand...

I bought my Urea at SiteOne and seems to be a better quality than you might find at a farm store(less garbage)


----------



## Ral1121

I am planning on putting down ammonium sulfate weekly at a rate of .2#/1000. Even at this low rate of nitrogen, would I need to worry about burning and water it in?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Ral1121 said:


> I am planning on putting down ammonium sulfate weekly at a rate of .2#/1000. Even at this low rate of nitrogen, would I need to worry about burning and water it in?


How much carrier(water) are you using per K? You may be alright but I'm still figuring out this liquid fertilizing thing myself but from what I've read you should be safe.


----------



## Greendoc

0.2 lb N from Ammonium Sulfate is 1 lb. I have applied 1 lb per gallon on grass that is either well irrigated or after it has rained. I prefer applying that much material in 2 gallons to be absolutely sure there will be no problems or if I cannot turn on irrigation or water in soon after.


----------



## Ral1121

Mightyquinn said:


> Ral1121 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am planning on putting down ammonium sulfate weekly at a rate of .2#/1000. Even at this low rate of nitrogen, would I need to worry about burning and water it in?
> 
> 
> 
> How much carrier(water) are you using per K? You may be alright but I'm still figuring out this liquid fertilizing thing myself but from what I've read you should be safe.
Click to expand...

I went at my regular 1 gal/M.


----------



## Hambone79

Your going about this the wrong way if you are trying to implement a foliar program on your lawn MQ. First off, trying to spray over a 1/2 lb/N/M is never a good idea for the sprayer or grass. If you are wanting to implement foliar apps. You should do so in conjunction with granular. My greens programs always utilized both and just about any other highly qualified superintendent or highly acclaimed golf course or turf venue does as well. A lot of guys go with organics for the granular, but where the spraying comes in is in a weekly spoon feeding program. A lot of guys spray greens weekly with around .10lb/N/M or less depending on needs or season. By doing it weekly you are controlling what the plant is taking up, but you should never depend on foliar application alone. I recommend you try applying about half your rate monthly granular and the other half foliar, but broken down into weekly spoon feedings. This is the method most professional turf managers use.


----------



## Fishnugget

MQ I know you have 2 Iron products that you are trying out. I am not sure if you have used Feature 6-0-0 but I am running low on my liquid Iron from Southern Ag which is prompting me to buy the soluble 5lb bag to get more for my money. The liquid iron from Southern Ag has worked really well for me but the Feature product is enticing because its sold in smaller bags and claims little to no staining. What should I do? Buy both? :lol:


----------



## ryeguy

Hambone79 said:


> Your going about this the wrong way if you are trying to implement a foliar program on your lawn MQ. First off, trying to spray over a 1/2 lb/N/M is never a good idea for the sprayer or grass. If you are wanting to implement foliar apps. You should do so in conjunction with granular. My greens programs always utilized both and just about any other highly qualified superintendent or highly acclaimed golf course or turf venue does as well. A lot of guys go with organics for the granular, but where the spraying comes in is in a weekly spoon feeding program. A lot of guys spray greens weekly with around .10lb/N/M or less depending on needs or season. By doing it weekly you are controlling what the plant is taking up, but you should never depend on foliar application alone. I recommend you try applying about half your rate monthly granular and the other half foliar, but broken down into weekly spoon feedings. This is the method most professional turf managers use.


Can you go into more detail why purely foliar isn't the best idea?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Fishnugget said:


> MQ I know you have 2 Iron products that you are trying out. I am not sure if you have used Feature 6-0-0 but I am running low on my liquid Iron from Southern Ag which is prompting me to buy the soluble 5lb bag to get more for my money. The liquid iron from Southern Ag has worked really well for me but the Feature product is enticing because its sold in smaller bags and claims little to no staining. What should I do? Buy both? :lol:


I would try the Feature first and see what results you get first before trying something else. It's relatively inexpensive and looks very promising.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

@Mightyquinn @Fishnugget guys, I'm very impressed with the FEature product. It didn't take much to treat my whole yard, and even though I sprayed with the GCF products at the same time (which are naturally dark), the color response has been great. It normally takes a day or so for the dark color of the GCF products to wear off of the grass blades when I water, but it stayed darker this time for about 3 days, and was a nice transition to the deep color it currently has. I required 23 oz to cover my entire lot, and there's a very stark color difference between my grass, and the neighbor's grass along the property lines. My photos don't really do it any justice.


----------



## Fishnugget

Mightyquinn said:


> Fishnugget said:
> 
> 
> 
> MQ I know you have 2 Iron products that you are trying out. I am not sure if you have used Feature 6-0-0 but I am running low on my liquid Iron from Southern Ag which is prompting me to buy the soluble 5lb bag to get more for my money. The liquid iron from Southern Ag has worked really well for me but the Feature product is enticing because its sold in smaller bags and claims little to no staining. What should I do? Buy both? :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> I would try the Feature first and see what results you get first before trying something else. It's relatively inexpensive and looks very promising.
Click to expand...

Thanks MQ, I will place my order!


----------



## Fishnugget

Colonel K0rn said:


> @Mightyquinn @Fishnugget guys, I'm very impressed with the FEature product. It didn't take much to treat my whole yard, and even though I sprayed with the GCF products at the same time (which are naturally dark), the color response has been great. It normally takes a day or so for the dark color of the GCF products to wear off of the grass blades when I water, but it stayed darker this time for about 3 days, and was a nice transition to the deep color it currently has. I required 23 oz to cover my entire lot, and there's a very stark color difference between my grass, and the neighbor's grass along the property lines. My photos don't really do it any justice.


Nice.!!!....Thanks for the feedback Colonel  I didn't know you were using it as well. Its great to hear feedback from someone who had positive results. My grass got a darker green using Southern Ag Iron in one day. I am going to place my order and post my results.


----------



## Fishnugget

I ordered two 3lb bags because that is all they had!


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Fishnugget said:


> I ordered two 3lb bags because that is all they had!


Per @Greendoc, his suggestion was 2 oz/M, so 6# should last you quite a while, depending on your re-application date. Since I've got 10+ yards of sand in my future, I doubt I'll be reapplying anytime this year... maybe.


----------



## Mightyquinn

I just picked up some Sulfate of Potash (0-0-50) and Potassium Nitrate (13.7-0-46) today. I had to drive about an hour to get it but it sure beats having to pay shipping as it was a whole lot cheaper this way :thumbup: I think I'm set for Potassium for the next 2-3 years.


----------



## Alan

You can make some cool smoke bombs with the KNO3.


----------



## Mightyquinn

Alan said:


> You can make some cool smoke bombs with the KNO3.


LOL! I'd rather use it for the lawn :thumbup:


----------



## TLFU

Interesting thread. 
What is a good price for 0-0-50 50#?
What is Potassium Nitrate used for?
Also, FEature, is it 2 Oz/1K sq-ft and how often should this be applied (every week/month/etc)?
Wish you all the best on your liquid lawn fert journey.


----------



## Mightyquinn

TLFU said:


> Interesting thread.
> What is a good price for 0-0-50 50#?
> What is Potassium Nitrate used for?
> Also, FEature, is it 2 Oz/1K sq-ft and how often should this be applied (every week/month/etc)?
> Wish you all the best on your liquid lawn fert journey.


I think anywhere around $30-40 a bag is a decent price for 50#. I paid $35 a bag for mine.

Potassium Nitrate is used for Potassium but also has a little bit of fast release Nitrogen in it too.

Yes, FEature is applied at 2oz/K and can be applied whenever but I think you should get a few weeks of green out of it due to the chelated iron it has.

Thank you for the wishes on this little experiment. :thumbup:


----------



## Movingshrub

Greendoc said:


> Have you heard of FEature 6-0-0? That is the iron and micronutrient source I add to my fertilizer applications. It is chelated with EDTA and Citric Acid. https://www.lovelandproducts.com/product/feature-soluble-6-0-0 3 lb. covers 1/2 acre at the highest rate. Really affordable as well. @$15 for the 3 lb.


Why FEature over some of the other multipacks options?


----------



## Greendoc

Movingshrub said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you heard of FEature 6-0-0? That is the iron and micronutrient source I add to my fertilizer applications. It is chelated with EDTA and Citric Acid. https://www.lovelandproducts.com/product/feature-soluble-6-0-0 3 lb. covers 1/2 acre at the highest rate. Really affordable as well. @$15 for the 3 lb.
> 
> 
> 
> Why FEature over some of the other multipacks options?
Click to expand...

Copper, Boron, and Molybdenum deficiency is normally not a reason why the grass is not green. FEAture seems to focus on the elements most needed by turfgrass. The other Micronutrient mixes are targeted towards AG crops whose yield is often affected by deficiencies in those elements. However, I am one to never say never. When I am dealing with a lawn where maintenance practice included constant mowing and collection of clippings with no fertilization of any kind at all every element becomes part of the program. Yes, this is a thing in Hawaii. I will apply NPK+*ALL* of the nutrients. My typical combination includes FEAture+Miller Microplex+20-20-20.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

@Movingshrub I got 5# of Axilo Mix 5 last year, and at $15/lb, it's not exactly cheap. I can spray the yard multiple times with FEature and get great results for considerably less, with no color change. GD hit it right on the head when he said that those products are more designed to work with ag crops, and not turf, which is why the labelling on the bag is pretty generic.

I did one treatment of the whole yard with Axilo based off of the Soil Savvy test that I bought. Now that I have results from a "better" lab, I'll do another reapplication later on when I put down more lime, and see if I get any measurable changes in a few months when I test again.


----------



## jayhawk

I capriciously bought some SOP (50lbs) that turns out to be water soluble so I guess I'm going to busy spraying. what amount do you think one can safely apply each time? how freq are you applying? I know foliar is most efficient ...perhaps not apples to apples when talking granular rates?

I have FEature too - have you combined it with that in the tank of SOP http://www.sqm.com/en-us/productos/...d/ultrasol/macronutrientes/ultrasolsop52.aspx? 


reminder: I'm a zoysia grower


----------



## Movingshrub

Colonel K0rn said:


> @Movingshrub I got 5# of Axilo Mix 5 last year, and at $15/lb, it's not exactly cheap. I can spray the yard multiple times with FEature and get great results for considerably less, with no color change. GD hit it right on the head when he said that those products are more designed to work with ag crops, and not turf, which is why the labelling on the bag is pretty generic.
> 
> I did one treatment of the whole yard with Axilo based off of the Soil Savvy test that I bought. Now that I have results from a "better" lab, I'll do another reapplication later on when I put down more lime, and see if I get any measurable changes in a few months when I test again.


I could have overlooked something on the math but I thought the Axilo Mix 5 was cheaper per app. The rate is 0.25lb-2LB per acre. The price I saw was $60 for 5lb, which is $0.75oz. The cost is $3-$22 per acre per app.

The FEature product rate is 1-2oz per k, which would be 43.5-87oz per acre/2.71-5.53lb per acre.

Assuming a price of $20 for a 3lb bag, which is $0.42 per oz, that comes out to $18.27-$36.54 per acre per application.

I will say, I didn't check the reapplication interval so the FEature product might have a longer time frame between app.

Also, I am making a huge assumption that you're getting the same result from both products, and that the nitrogen aspect of the app isn't a requirement, but rather incidental.


----------



## Mightyquinn

jayhawk said:


> I capriciously bought some SOP (50lbs) that turns out to be water soluble so I guess I'm going to busy spraying. what amount do you think one can safely apply each time? how freq are you applying? I know foliar is most efficient ...perhaps not apples to apples when talking granular rates?
> 
> I have FEature too - have you combined it with that in the tank of SOP http://www.sqm.com/en-us/productos/...d/ultrasol/macronutrientes/ultrasolsop52.aspx?
> 
> 
> reminder: I'm a zoysia grower


Even though it's water soluble you should still be able to apply it through your spreader if you wish but if you do decide to spray it still, I would go with no more than 2 lbs/K(1lb of actual Potassium/K) and adding in the Feature shouldn't do any harm.


----------



## kur1j

FEature seems to be sold out in the epest supply store .


----------



## w0lfe

Yeah the only place I really see it in stock is on eBay, but it's a little higher.


----------



## balistek

kur1j said:


> FEature seems to be sold out in the epest supply store .


Glad i went ahead and bought it. USPS shows my feature arrived about an hour ago.


----------



## Alan

I'd like to see a consensus from the board of what the best bang for the buck is, whether that's MQ's original recipe on page 1, this FEature stuff or some other concoction.


----------



## kur1j

I emailed epest and they said they are expecting a shipment on Thursday.


----------



## cnet24

@Mightyquinn @Greendoc help me understand what product Feature replaced in the original recipe? Are you only spraying this, or are you combining with urea or ammonium sulfate product?


----------



## Greendoc

FEature replaces FAS. It may be used as part of a complete liquid fertilizer program. I consider a fertilizer program complete when it contains NPK+Micronutrients. Unlike FAS, FEature is compatible with most soluble NPK materials.


----------



## balistek

I knew the product (FEeature) was only 3lbs of material. I just had this preconceived idea of what it would look likes size wise. Man that bag is small. The USPS tracker said it was delivered to my home. I came home to look, and I looked by my doorstep and garage. I was like WTF. I thought there is no way it fits in my mailbox. I was wrong haha. Such a small bag. Can't wait to try it this tomorrow afternoon after work.


----------



## cnet24

Greendoc said:


> FEature replaces FAS. It may be used as part of a complete liquid fertilizer program. I consider a fertilizer program complete when it contains NPK+Micronutrients. Unlike FAS, FEature is compatible with most soluble NPK materials.


Ok- so you aren't combining the FEature with the Ammonium Sulfate then- just strictly mixing FEature and spraying? Combined w/ PGR, etc.


----------



## Greendoc

Here's what is mixed with FEature for a typical application. FEature, Citric Acid, Ammonium Sulfate, 20-20-20, Potassium Nitrate, Humic, Fungicide, or Insecticide, or Preemergent if needed. Any of those components are added according to need. Normally, there are no granules applied. No Milorganite, no Ammonium Sulfate, no lawn fertilizers. It is all liquid.


----------



## Movingshrub

Greendoc said:


> Here's what is mixed with FEature for a typical application. FEature, Citric Acid, Ammonium Sulfate, 20-20-20, Potassium Nitrate, Humic, Fungicide, or Insecticide, or Preemergent if needed. Any of those components are added according to need. Normally, there are no granules applied. No Milorganite, no Ammonium Sulfate, no lawn fertilizers. It is all liquid.


I've been struggling with knowing which type of fert to apply, when.

I've been trying to find guidelines on when to use Ammonium Sulfate 21-0-0, Calcium Nitrate 15.5-0-0, All purpose 20-20-20, or this Ammonical Nitrate + Urea blend that I keep seeing at 34-0-0 (is this basically ammonium nitrate plus urea in a blend that can't be used for explosives? Otherwise, I don't see the point.), or Urea 46-0-0.

I'm trying to answer that question to drive the foliar application mixture.


----------



## raldridge2315

Movingshrub said:


> or this Ammonical Nitrate + Urea blend that I keep seeing at 34-0-0 (is this basically ammonium nitrate plus urea in a blend


I've been using it. It's a blend of ammonium sulfate and urea. My bag says 34% nitrogen, 12% sulfur, Derived from Ammonium Sulfate and Urea. I have not been able to buy ammonium sulfate or urea in 50 pound bags this year. I normally shop at Valley Feed and Landscape Supply on AL 67. I also tried at the Morgan County Coop. The guy at the coop said that it's all going to bulk and that they can't get bagged material. So this seems to be the next best thing.


----------



## Movingshrub

raldridge2315 said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> 
> or this Ammonical Nitrate + Urea blend that I keep seeing at 34-0-0 (is this basically ammonium nitrate plus urea in a blend
> 
> 
> 
> I've been using it. It's a blend of ammonium sulfate and urea. My bag says 34% nitrogen, 12% sulfur, Derived from Ammonium Sulfate and Urea. I have not been able to buy ammonium sulfate or urea in 50 pound bags this year. I normally shop at Valley Feed and Landscape Supply on AL 67. I also tried at the Morgan County Coop. The guy at the coop said that it's all going to bulk and that they can't get bagged material. So this seems to be the next best thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah I've been using that 34-0-0 blend for my fast release N source. The Madison Co-op does have 50lb of Calcium Nitrate. I was trying to figure out if there's an advantage to using both Ammonium Sulfate and Calcium Nitrate cause then you get both the Ammonium N source as well as the Nitrate N source, considering Ammonium Nitrate is impossible to purchase.

I saw that Site one has 21-0-0 AS but I don't know the price/size per bag locally, however, MQ's OP notes "Ammonium Sulfate $22.55 for 50 lbs @ SiteOne."

Also, what's the benefit of urea as an N source? It's cheap and doesn't have a high salt content? I would think the volatilization would off set the price benefit.


----------



## raldridge2315

Movingshrub said:


> Also, what's the benefit of urea as an N source? It's cheap and doesn't have a high salt content? I would think the volatilization would off set the price benefit.


The volatilization is a problem. I've heard as much as 25% loss. $22 seems a little high. I bought 21-0-0 at the Co-op last year for $17.


----------



## Alan

raldridge2315 said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, what's the benefit of urea as an N source? It's cheap and doesn't have a high salt content? I would think the volatilization would off set the price benefit.
> 
> 
> 
> The volatilization is a problem. I've heard as much as 25% loss. $22 seems a little high. I bought 21-0-0 at the Co-op last year for $17.
Click to expand...

40% loss if everything is wrong, but commonly 20%, or an insignificant amount..it all depends according to this article:
https://www.noble.org/news/publications/ag-news-and-views/2009/may/nitrogen-losses-from-urea/

I can get 21-0-0 for $18.48/50#.


----------



## Tellycoleman

cnet24 said:


> Ok- so you aren't combining the FEature with the Ammonium Sulfate then- just strictly mixing FEature and spraying? Combined w/ PGR, etc.


I believe MQ original use of ammonium sulfate in his original mixture was to facilitate leaf absorption

From what I read Feature already has ammonium sulfate in the mixture so you don't need to add more.


----------



## Greendoc

Movingshrub said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what is mixed with FEature for a typical application. FEature, Citric Acid, Ammonium Sulfate, 20-20-20, Potassium Nitrate, Humic, Fungicide, or Insecticide, or Preemergent if needed. Any of those components are added according to need. Normally, there are no granules applied. No Milorganite, no Ammonium Sulfate, no lawn fertilizers. It is all liquid.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been struggling with knowing which type of fert to apply, when.
> 
> I've been trying to find guidelines on when to use Ammonium Sulfate 21-0-0, Calcium Nitrate 15.5-0-0, All purpose 20-20-20, or this Ammonical Nitrate + Urea blend that I keep seeing at 34-0-0 (is this basically ammonium nitrate plus urea in a blend that can't be used for explosives? Otherwise, I don't see the point.), or Urea 46-0-0.
> 
> I'm trying to answer that question to drive the foliar application mixture.
Click to expand...

You use products according to what the grass needs. When I see people talking about applying N be it from Ammonium Sulfate, Urea, or Ammonium Nitrate or blends thereof, I assume their grass has absolutely no need for anything but Nitrogen. Ammonium Sulfate is something I specify if soil pH needs to be decreased and Nitrogen applied. Purpose of Calcium Nitrate in my program is to supply Calcium and to increase soil pH while supplying Nitrogen. Purpose of Potassium Nitrate is to supply Potassium in a form that readily dissolves in spray equipment. Potassium Sulfate can be like trying to dissolve sand unless it is the special solution grade one. The 20-20-20 is another specialty product to supply NPK+ Micronutrients in a convenient formulation. It is a little expensive, but when that is needed, it works. I find out what the grass needs by getting the soil test done. With soil test in hand, I then look at the growth rate of the grass. I also look for visual symptoms of deficiency. They might look different on different grasses, but a soil test in hand helps tremendously. In my area, it is extremely rare for grass to only need Nitrogen. I had better be applying everything and not one element in isolation. Other regions may be different, but a soil test calls out those differences.

Bottom line is that there is no such thing as a one size fits all universal fertilizer. Just as in weed control, many factors are taken into account before deciding what to apply. Failure to account for those factors can result in wasted money and poor results. I am trying to get maximum results from minimal amounts of material applied. Sure, I can hit lawns with a 1 lb + of N per month and get them greener. What are the consequences of that? Direct expenses related to handling and applying massive amounts of material. Indirect expenses related to excessive Nitrogen causing surge growth, thatch, and possible increased disease. Too much N increases risk of Brown Patch, Leaf Spot, and Pythium. It also increases risk of Spring Dead Spot.


----------



## kur1j

@Greendoc So Im looking into a spraysble solution for fertilizer of N. I'm looking for which sprayable version of N would be best for my lawn. My soil is pretty acidic by default. It had lime applied to it and currently it's sitting at 6.7 (as of a week ago). But before the lime it was around 5.9 (back in November). This to me would rule out Ammonium Sulfate. I have really high Calsium (~2200ppm) so this to me would rule out Calcium Nitrate. So this leaves Potassium Nitrate, Urea, Amonium Nitrate. I don't necessarily need Potassium (i certainly could use some and I'm going to be putting some out) but don't think it's something long term I would continually use? That leaves Urea or Ammonium Nitrate. AM seems to be extremely difficult to get for whatever reason. Leaving the only thing left is Urea.

So my question is, should I be concerned with Ammonium Sulfate even having acidic soil. Would it be enough to really impact the pH thst much? Same goes for Calcium Nitrate?


----------



## Greendoc

It can impact soil pH. Keep applying it year after year as the sole or majority source of N and you may see a decrease in soil pH. Urea is probably your best N source followed by Calcium Nitrate. High Calcium is actually a good thing as long as it is not associated with high alkalinity/pH. Only thing is that Calcium Nitrate is not very easy to find.


----------



## Greendoc

It can impact soil pH. Keep applying it year after year as the sole or majority source of N and you may see a decrease in soil pH. Urea is probably your best N source followed by Calcium Nitrate. High Calcium is actually a good thing as long as it is not associated with high alkalinity/pH. Only thing is that Calcium Nitrate is not very easy to find.


----------



## iFisch3224

Mightyquinn said:


> Depending on the quality of the Urea or AS you buy, it may have some "garbage" in it after you melt it down. I have an old flower sieve that I can use to pour the solution through it to get these particles out but my sprayer already has an inline filter that catches everything before the pump. I'm not sure if the Chapin has one or not. With all that being said, Urea or AS should melt down relatively easily in water and should be able to be sprayed through your Chapin.


I'm still new here, as you can tell, but have been watching/reading/following your thread (only on page 3 or 4 thus far) but I was wondering what/how you "meltdown" granular products into a liquid form? I'm sure I may be slightly overthinking, but how do you do it, and what do you use, to achieve the end product?

Are you just using that drill paddle device previously mentioned, and agitating until fully dissolved? Just received my first bag of FEature 6-0-0 and plan on implementing a "hybrid" fert plan like yours - 3x bags of Milorganite a year (1 bag treats entire yard, so not too expensive) and then finishing my macro needs in liquid form, but accumulating the products will take a little time, and probably best to fully invest in the spring again, as I'm now just learning/reading about this, about 1/3 of the way through the St Aug season here in FL.

-Nick :thumbup:


----------



## Lawn_newbie

@Mightyquinn Do you have any timeline photos as you used the different iron products?


----------



## Mightyquinn

I just melt it down with water to put it into solution. You can't melt down all fertilizers, if they have any coating on them they won't dissolve easily in water. Almost all Urea(46-0-0) and Ammonium Sulfate(21-0-0) should be water soluble. I just dissolve it in a 5 gallon bucket and use warm water( the hotter the water is the faster/better it will dissolve). I use the paddle mixer on the end of a drill to mix it up really good.


----------



## Mightyquinn

Lawn_newbie said:


> @Mightyquinn Do you have any timeline photos as you used the different iron products?


No I do not. I have yet to use the FEature and haven't taken pictures recently since I have been crazy busy.


----------



## dwells97

I've read through this post and want to switch over to liquid fertilization. One because it looks efficient and two my old spreader died today. So no better time than now to switch. I already have a Chapin powered sprayer which should be fine for what I need to spray.

But I did not see how people determine or calculate the amount of Phosphorus or Potassium they use when they spray. Is there a rule of thumb for this? I know a soil sample would be a great guide but trying to see what to do if you do not have one?

Sorry if I missed the answer to this question in another post.


----------



## Mightyquinn

dwells97 said:


> I've read through this post and want to switch over to liquid fertilization. One because it looks efficient and two my old spreader died today. So no better time than now to switch. I already have a Chapin powered sprayer which should be fine for what I need to spray.
> 
> But I did not see how people determine or calculate the amount of Phosphorus or Potassium they use when they spray. Is there a rule of thumb for this? I know a soil sample would be a great guide but trying to see what to do if you do not have one?
> 
> Sorry if I missed the answer to this question in another post.


Calculating Phosphorus or Potassium would be the same as with granular as long as you are using a water soluble source for your Phosphorus or Potassium. One pound of Sulfate of Potash(0-0-50) dissolved in 3 gallons of water sprayed over 1K of lawn is the same as if you applied it in granular form.


----------



## dwells97

@Mightyquinn 
Thanks for the reply. So how much Phosphorus or Potassium do use when you spray. 1 pound or half pound per 1k of lawn?

I have been using 0.5 pounds of nitrogen on my lawn when I apply it granularly. Would I use the same 0.5 pounds for the Phosphorous and Potassium?

Sorry if my question isn't clear


----------



## Mightyquinn

dwells97 said:


> @Mightyquinn
> Thanks for the reply. So how much Phosphorus or Potassium do use when you spray. 1 pound or half pound per 1k of lawn?
> 
> I have been using 0.5 pounds of nitrogen on my lawn when I apply it granularly. Would I use the same 0.5 pounds for the Phosphorous and Potassium?
> 
> Sorry if my question isn't clear


Yes, but that's all relative to what your soil needs also. Having a soil test done can save you from applying stuff you don't need.


----------



## dwells97

Makes sense. Got to work on getting my soil test performed. That sounds like a key component of information that I am missing


----------



## Greendoc

Mightyquinn said:


> dwells97 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Mightyquinn
> Thanks for the reply. So how much Phosphorus or Potassium do use when you spray. 1 pound or half pound per 1k of lawn?
> 
> I have been using 0.5 pounds of nitrogen on my lawn when I apply it granularly. Would I use the same 0.5 pounds for the Phosphorous and Potassium?
> 
> Sorry if my question isn't clear
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but that's all relative to what your soil needs also. Having a soil test done can save you from applying stuff you don't need.
Click to expand...

That is the beauty of liquids. Get a soil test done, then formulate whatever the grass needs rather than trying to buy a granule. The commercial guys can order custom blended granules but the minimum order to do that is 2000 lb or more.


----------



## dwells97

I see that the soil test is a key part of the liquid plan. This is evident now. Will try and get by my County Extension office for sampling kit.

2000 pounds of a custom blended granule would last a long time on my small yard.


----------



## Stro3579

Mightyquinn said:


> I just melt it down with water to put it into solution. You can't melt down all fertilizers, if they have any coating on them they won't dissolve easily in water. Almost all Urea(46-0-0) and Ammonium Sulfate(21-0-0) should be water soluble. I just dissolve it in a 5 gallon bucket and use warm water( the hotter the water is the faster/better it will dissolve). I use the paddle mixer on the end of a drill to mix it up really good.


How can I measure Urea 46-0-0? I want to put down 0.25 lbs of N on 8,000 sq ft. I want to desolve the Urea and spray it.
I have bermuda grass. Is 0.25 lbs of N to low of a application?


----------



## Lawn_newbie

@Stro3579 The N value of 46 is the percentage out of I am assuming a 50lb bag. Thus you would have .46 x 50 = 23lb of N per bag. You need 2lbs of N for your sq ft... .25 x 8. Dividing 2/.46 gives you 4.35lb. You need 4.35lb of Urea to produce 2lb of N.

You can easily put .25lb per week.


----------



## Stro3579

Lawn_newbie said:


> @Stro3579 The N value of 46 is the percentage out of I am assuming a 50lb bag. Thus you would have .46 x 50 = 23lb of N per bag. You need 2lbs of N for your sq ft... .25 x 8. Dividing 2/.46 gives you 4.35lb. You need 4.35lb of Urea to produce 2lb of N.
> 
> You can easily put .25lb per week.


So desolve 2lbs of urea to cover 8k sq ft will give me .25 lbs? So 4lbs would be .50lbs of N? 8lbs of urea is 1lbs of N per sq ft. Correct?


----------



## Spammage

Stro3579 said:


> Lawn_newbie said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Stro3579 The N value of 46 is the percentage out of I am assuming a 50lb bag. Thus you would have .46 x 50 = 23lb of N per bag. You need 2lbs of N for your sq ft... .25 x 8. Dividing 2/.46 gives you 4.35lb. You need 4.35lb of Urea to produce 2lb of N.
> 
> You can easily put .25lb per week.
> 
> 
> 
> So desolve 2lbs of urea to cover 8k sq ft will give me .25 lbs? So 4lbs would be .50lbs of N? 8lbs of urea is 1lbs of N per sq ft. Correct?
Click to expand...

No, 4.35lb of urea would provide 2 lbs N or .25 lbs per 1000 for 8000sf.


----------



## Lawn_newbie

Nope.. you need 4.35lbs of Urea.

Out of that 4.35lbs only 46% is Nitrogen. Thus, 4.35 X .46 gives you two pounds of Nitrogen. You then want .25lbs of Nitrogen per 1000 sq/ft with a lot size of 8000 sq/ft. So, you have 8 x .25 = 2lbs of Nitrogen.


----------



## Stro3579

Lawn_newbie said:


> Nope.. you need 4.35lbs of Urea.
> 
> Out of that 4.35lbs only 46% is Nitrogen. Thus, 4.35 X .46 gives you two pounds of Nitrogen. You then want .25lbs of Nitrogen per 1000 sq/ft with a lot size of 8000 sq/ft. So, you have 8 x .25 = 2lbs of Nitrogen.


? So 4.35lbs desolved in enough water to cover my 8k sq ft will be .25lbs of Nitrogen per 1k sq ft
Correct?


----------



## Lawn_newbie

@Stro3579 4.35lbs dissolved will give you 2lbs of nitrogen. If you dissolve this in 8 gallons of water and spray 1 gallon per 1000 sq/ft, then yes you will be putting down .25lbs of nitrogen per 1k sq/ft.


----------



## Stro3579

Lawn_newbie said:


> @Stro3579 4.35lbs dissolved will give you 2lbs of nitrogen. If you dissolve this in 8 gallons of water and spray 1 gallon per 1000 sq/ft, then yes you will be putting down .25lbs of nitrogen per 1k sq/ft.


 :thumbup: thx


----------



## Stro3579

Lawn_newbie said:


> @Stro3579 The N value of 46 is the percentage out of I am assuming a 50lb bag. Thus you would have .46 x 50 = 23lb of N per bag. You need 2lbs of N for your sq ft... .25 x 8. Dividing 2/.46 gives you 4.35lb. You need 4.35lb of Urea to produce 2lb of N.
> 
> You can easily put .25lb per week.


What is the most weekly I can put down?


----------



## rhollow1

Stro3579 said:


> Lawn_newbie said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Stro3579 The N value of 46 is the percentage out of I am assuming a 50lb bag. Thus you would have .46 x 50 = 23lb of N per bag. You need 2lbs of N for your sq ft... .25 x 8. Dividing 2/.46 gives you 4.35lb. You need 4.35lb of Urea to produce 2lb of N.
> 
> You can easily put .25lb per week.
> 
> 
> 
> What is the most weekly I can put down?
Click to expand...

I would like to know this as well. Is there such a thing as to much N on Bermuda grass?


----------



## Mightyquinn

I wouldn't go more than .5lbs a week to start off with but with that amount, you will need to water frequently and mow very often to keep up with the surge of growth you will get. It will also produce a lot of thatch especially if you are not collecting your clippings. I'm not sure what limit of Nitrogen Bermuda can handle but it's pretty high for sure but you may get some side effects that may or may not be bad depending on what you are looking to do.


----------



## rhollow1

Thanks @Mightyquinn !

So right now I am sprinkling 29-0-4 over my sod/plugs to help it spread. I am also adding .5lbs of Urea to 1 gallon of water to get .25lbs of N weekly.

So now I am going to start adding some AS 21-0-0 to the mix. I will add 1 lbs of 21-0-0 to 1 gallon of water to give me .25/1k of AS. So in total I should be putting down 2lbs of liquid fertilizer (Urea/AS) for the month. Is this correct?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Sounds correct. You will be basically applying .44 lbs of Nitrogen/K.


----------



## Stro3579

Mightyquinn said:


> Sounds correct. You will be basically applying .44 lbs of Nitrogen/K.


Is there a app for the doing the math of Nitrogen on lawn?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Stro3579 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds correct. You will be basically applying .44 lbs of Nitrogen/K.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a app for the doing the math of Nitrogen on lawn?
Click to expand...

Not sure if this Fertilizer Calculator is what you are looking for but I have used it in the past but now I can do most of the math in my head :thumbup:


----------



## Stro3579

Mightyquinn said:


> Stro3579 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds correct. You will be basically applying .44 lbs of Nitrogen/K.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a app for the doing the math of Nitrogen on lawn?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not sure if this Fertilizer Calculator is what you are looking for but I have used it in the past but now I can do most of the math in my head :thumbup:
Click to expand...

@Mightyquinn :thumbup: thx


----------



## rhollow1

Mightyquinn said:


> Sounds correct. You will be basically applying .44 lbs of Nitrogen/K.


Great thanks!!

After applying this much fertilizer do you water it in or just let it soak in?

I sprayed it today at 7:30pm, but I am just letting it soak in without adding any water. Hopefully I don't end up burning it.


----------



## Mightyquinn

rhollow1 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds correct. You will be basically applying .44 lbs of Nitrogen/K.
> 
> 
> 
> Great thanks!!
> 
> After applying this much fertilizer do you water it in or just let it soak in?
> 
> I sprayed it today at 7:30pm, but I am just letting it soak in without adding any water. Hopefully I don't end up burning it.
Click to expand...

After about 4 hours the grass will absorb all that it can through the leaf so it's best to run an irrigation cycle to wash it off the leaf and into the soil where the roots can uptake the rest of it. I have noticed that I will get some leaf burn if left on the grass too long but after a mow or two the brown tips will get mowed off, so all is well again.


----------



## rhollow1

When do you usually apply it to your lawn? Morning or evening? Will I get more tip burn if applied at the hottest part of the day?


----------



## Mightyquinn

rhollow1 said:


> When do you usually apply it to your lawn? Morning or evening? Will I get more tip burn if applied at the hottest part of the day?


I usually apply it in the evening and if possible right before some rain is coming, if not I will run the irrigation for about 15 minutes per zone just to wash it off the blades. You will definitely raise your chances of tip burn if applied during the hottest part of the day. I have considered applying it in the morning with all the dew on the ground as it should help reduce tip burn since there is more moisture present. The more hydrated the lawn is the less chance of tip burn there should be.


----------



## rhollow1

Mightyquinn said:


> rhollow1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When do you usually apply it to your lawn? Morning or evening? Will I get more tip burn if applied at the hottest part of the day?
> 
> 
> 
> I usually apply it in the evening and if possible right before some rain is coming, if not I will run the irrigation for about 15 minutes per zone just to wash it off the blades. You will definitely raise your chances of tip burn if applied during the hottest part of the day. I have considered applying it in the morning with all the dew on the ground as it should help reduce tip burn since there is more moisture present. The more hydrated the lawn is the less chance of tip burn there should be.
Click to expand...

Great! Thanks for all the help!!


----------



## datcope

@Mightyquinn Silly question...where did you get that blue container?


----------



## Mightyquinn

datcope said:


> @Mightyquinn Silly question...where did you get that blue container?


LOL!!! It's a Lowe's 5 gallon bucket :thumbup:


----------



## datcope

Thanks. After all this time, I didn't know you could get a lid for it! What s simple solution to keep everything in the garage safe.


----------



## T0R0

Before I found this post I started a post about putting down Ammonium Sulfate as part of a new liquid spoon feeding app in addition to granular apps of Milo or Synthetic ferts.

This post has been a wealth of knowledge!

I'm going to start off at a really low dose of .10 N per week (little less than 1/2 lb of 21-0-0 per M) and go from there. Is there any problem doing a dose like that in 1 gal per M if sprayed in the evening? I plan on spraying around 5pm and irrigating 4 hrs later.


----------



## Robert12756

It may just be me trying to get the best and the most for my money when it comes to buying various kinds of supplies for my lawn and flower beds but I have found that it is pretty easy to replace the premixed solutions, if in fact you are using liquids for fertilizing etc. your lawn, by just doing a little reading, a little math, ordering a few pounds of the appropriate chemicals and a half dozen plastic milk like jugs and making the majority of what you need for your lawn yourself. I tried premixed lawn supplies like the NEXT products for example and found I could make virtually the same thing myself for pennies on the dollar to what GCF charges for their products and my testing shows my mixed products work as well if not better than the premixed products for a fraction of the cost and there's no shipping to boot. There are no secrets in the pre mixed bottles and the little bit of convenience does not justify the major increase in cost over mixing it yourself. Just my observation.


----------



## cglarsen

Robert12756 said:


> It may just be me trying to get the best and the most for my money when it comes to buying various kinds of supplies for my lawn and flower beds but I have found that it is pretty easy to replace the premixed solutions, if in fact you are using liquids for fertilizing etc. your lawn, by just doing a little reading, a little math, ordering a few pounds of the appropriate chemicals and a half dozen plastic milk like jugs and making the majority of what you need for your lawn yourself. I tried premixed lawn supplies like the NEXT products for example and found I could make virtually the same thing myself for pennies on the dollar to what GCF charges for their products and my testing shows my mixed products work as well if not better than the premixed products for a fraction of the cost and there's no shipping to boot. There are no secrets in the pre mixed bottles and the little bit of convenience does not justify the major increase in cost over mixing it yourself. Just my observation.


Agreed. You can't use pre-mixed / packaged liquids on any sort of acreage. I'm working on getting my fertilizer cost way down via bulk purchases and mixing my own too.


----------



## Keepin It Reel

Any updates on how well Feature worked for you guys? How often should it be applied?

I have a neighbor who uses milorganite on his 419 and maintains a hoc around 2". I just noticed my fertilizer has no iron in it but it's high in N, 34-0-0.

While mine is green the milorganite lawn appears to be a different shade...much deeper in color. Since we have the same type sod, I'm guessing this is from the added iron that I'm missing with my product.


----------



## Mightyquinn

I've been enjoying using it and I have been applying it every 2-3 weeks with my PGR app at 2oz/M.


----------



## Keepin It Reel

Mightyquinn said:


> I've been enjoying using it and I have been applying it every 2-3 weeks with my PGR app at 2oz/M.


Can you tell the color difference when you add iron to your regimen vs nitrogen alone?


----------



## Mightyquinn

MeanDean said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been enjoying using it and I have been applying it every 2-3 weeks with my PGR app at 2oz/M.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you tell the color difference when you add iron to your regimen vs nitrogen alone?
Click to expand...

I can't say either way since I have been adding some form of Iron to the lawn for so many years that I don't even think about it anymore  All I know is that it's too easy to add to the PGR and it's not terribly expensive, plus I'm getting some micro's out of the whole deal :thumbup:


----------



## Keepin It Reel

The label for Feature says, "1-2oz per 1000sqft in sufficient water for coverage". I know some products not only have a specific amount of product/sqft but also a set rate of water that it must be mixed with as well. This is where I have trouble with my Chapin hose end sprayer trying to figure out which dial to set it to vs the amount of product I have in the container.

I also have a 4 gallon backpack sprayer. With approximately 10k sqft of lawn could I mix 10oz of Feature to my 4g tank and walk the entire lawn and provide "sufficient water for coverage"?

I saw a YouTube video someone put out addressing another product and he filled his 4g backpack sprayer with just water and walked his entire lawn until it was empty to figure out the pace he would need to cover his entire lawn. Then he added the product and repeated the process.

I think this could work for some products but not all because the ratios of water may not be accurate...that is what I struggle figuring out with some products.


----------



## cglarsen

@MeanDean Iron definitely will give a shade or two darker green. When I spray I see the difference next day. I know because I've sprayed my common (treated) and it's noticeably darker than TifTuf sod I just laid (untreated) and it eventually lightens up to about the same color.


----------



## Keepin It Reel

cglarsen said:


> @MeanDean Iron definitely will give a shade or two darker green. When I spray I see the difference next day. I know because I've sprayed my common (treated) and it's noticeably darker than TifTuf sod I just laid (untreated) and it eventually lightens up to about the same color.


How frequently can iron be sprayed?

I'm going to start spoon feeding my lawn .5lbs N every 2 weeks with something like 34-0-0 or 36-0-8. Could I also spray a low dose of Feature around this same schedule?


----------



## Mightyquinn

MeanDean said:


> cglarsen said:
> 
> 
> 
> @MeanDean Iron definitely will give a shade or two darker green. When I spray I see the difference next day. I know because I've sprayed my common (treated) and it's noticeably darker than TifTuf sod I just laid (untreated) and it eventually lightens up to about the same color.
> 
> 
> 
> How frequently can iron be sprayed?
> 
> I'm going to start spoon feeding my lawn .5lbs N every 2 weeks with something like 34-0-0 or 36-0-8. Could I also spray a low dose of Feature around this same schedule?
Click to expand...

Yes, you should be fine. You will have to find out on your own what the max amount of FEature is for your lawn though. I spray 2oz/M every 3 weeks or so with my PGR app, just to give you an idea.

I assume you are going to be spraying the Nitrogen? If so, make sure what you have is fully water soluble, if not, then disregard


----------



## Keepin It Reel

I was going to do granular fertilizer because it's easy to come by here and cheap and then spray iron separately. Bad idea?


----------



## Mightyquinn

MeanDean said:


> I was going to do granular fertilizer because it's easy to come by here and cheap and then spray iron separately. Bad idea?


Not at all :thumbup: Go with it!!!!


----------



## dad311

Im a little late to the game, but great write up!


----------



## T0R0

Robert12756 said:


> It may just be me trying to get the best and the most for my money when it comes to buying various kinds of supplies for my lawn and flower beds but I have found that it is pretty easy to replace the premixed solutions, if in fact you are using liquids for fertilizing etc. your lawn, by just doing a little reading, a little math, ordering a few pounds of the appropriate chemicals and a half dozen plastic milk like jugs and making the majority of what you need for your lawn yourself. I tried premixed lawn supplies like the NEXT products for example and found I could make virtually the same thing myself for pennies on the dollar to what GCF charges for their products and my testing shows my mixed products work as well if not better than the premixed products for a fraction of the cost and there's no shipping to boot. There are no secrets in the pre mixed bottles and the little bit of convenience does not justify the major increase in cost over mixing it yourself. Just my observation.


Do you have a recipe for an RGS clone?


----------



## Keepin It Reel

Mightyquinn said:


> MeanDean said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was going to do granular fertilizer because it's easy to come by here and cheap and then spray iron separately. Bad idea?
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all :thumbup: Go with it!!!!
Click to expand...

Thank you sir.

Do you keep a separate sprayer/tank that's dedicated to your iron supplements?


----------



## Mightyquinn

MeanDean said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MeanDean said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was going to do granular fertilizer because it's easy to come by here and cheap and then spray iron separately. Bad idea?
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all :thumbup: Go with it!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you sir.
> 
> Do you keep a separate sprayer/tank that's dedicated to your iron supplements?
Click to expand...

Nope, I just double rinse everything when I'm done and I have never had an issue.


----------



## smurg

MeanDean said:


> Any updates on how well Feature worked for you guys? How often should it be applied?
> 
> I have a neighbor who uses milorganite on his 419 and maintains a hoc around 2". I just noticed my fertilizer has no iron in it but it's high in N, 34-0-0.
> 
> While mine is green the milorganite lawn appears to be a different shade...much deeper in color. Since we have the same type sod, I'm guessing this is from the added iron that I'm missing with my product.


Possibly just the iron, but have you completed a soil test recently? Could be low on P or K if all you've been applying is Urea.


----------



## Keepin It Reel

smurg said:


> MeanDean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any updates on how well Feature worked for you guys? How often should it be applied?
> 
> I have a neighbor who uses milorganite on his 419 and maintains a hoc around 2". I just noticed my fertilizer has no iron in it but it's high in N, 34-0-0.
> 
> While mine is green the milorganite lawn appears to be a different shade...much deeper in color. Since we have the same type sod, I'm guessing this is from the added iron that I'm missing with my product.
> 
> 
> 
> Possibly just the iron, but have you completed a soil test recently? Could be low on P or K if all you've been applying is Urea.
Click to expand...

I haven't yet but was considering taking a sample and sending it to Clemson to see where I stand.

I started the season with a 16-4-8 and I sprayed some humic acid (teravita sp-90). My next round of fertilizer was going to be something like a 34-0-0 or a 28-0-6.

For those that have done soil test did you use a sod plug tool or just cut small areas with a hand shovel?


----------



## smurg

MeanDean said:


> smurg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MeanDean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any updates on how well Feature worked for you guys? How often should it be applied?
> 
> I have a neighbor who uses milorganite on his 419 and maintains a hoc around 2". I just noticed my fertilizer has no iron in it but it's high in N, 34-0-0.
> 
> While mine is green the milorganite lawn appears to be a different shade...much deeper in color. Since we have the same type sod, I'm guessing this is from the added iron that I'm missing with my product.
> 
> 
> 
> Possibly just the iron, but have you completed a soil test recently? Could be low on P or K if all you've been applying is Urea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven't yet but was considering taking a sample and sending it to Clemson to see where I stand.
> 
> I started the season with a 16-4-8 and I sprayed some humic acid (teravita sp-90). My next round of fertilizer was going to be something like a 34-0-0 or a 28-0-6.
> 
> For those that have done soil test did you use a sod plug tool or just cut small areas with a hand shovel?
Click to expand...

I use a combination of a soil probe and yard Butler manual aerator. The plugger would work but you want a number of spots to mix together and sample from. It's be a large number of plugs to pull from and you'd need to keep them watered more so those cut pieces don't die out.


----------



## ThomasPI

MQ very informative and really appreciate you taking the time. Quick question for you and perhaps not a quick answer. It appears you have been "liquid" for about a year and for the moment I'll assume prior to the switch you applied your product of choice was granular and applied with a spreader. That being said and looking back over the past year, can you provide and overall cost/benefits/results analysis since the switch to granular ? General observations ?

Once our house is completed I'm going straight to a liquid application. I'm new and totally green here as you know but after reading various posts here and in particular several posts made by greendoc, I'm choosing to go liquid on the El Toro sod that we will out down. Many thanks and I also would encourage others to chime in with their own personal experiences. :thumbup:


----------



## Mightyquinn

ThomasPI said:


> MQ very informative and really appreciate you taking the time. Quick question for you and perhaps not a quick answer. It appears you have been "liquid" for about a year and for the moment I'll assume prior to the switch you applied your product of choice was granular and applied with a spreader. That being said and looking back over the past year, can you provide and overall cost/benefits/results analysis since the switch to granular ? General observations ?
> 
> Once our house is completed I'm going straight to a liquid application. I'm new and totally green here as you know but after reading various posts here and in particular several posts made by greendoc, I'm choosing to go liquid on the El Toro sod that we will out down. Many thanks and I also would encourage others to chime in with their own personal experiences. :thumbup:


I have been applying liquid only apps for about a year and a half now and I feel like I'm still trying to figure out what my limits are with it. I will say overall I am quite happy with it and will continue to use it. The one HUGE advantage to me is that the fertilizer doesn't sit on top of the grass anymore so I don't have to worry about picking it up or damaging it when I mow. I mow reel low(under .5") and collect my clippings so my turf is like carpet and whatever you apply or put on the lawn just sits on top and takes forever to work itself down into the canopy. I have tried small SGN (SGN 145) before and even though it was better, it still sat on top of the lawn and it also gets cost prohibitive once you start getting into the smaller grain sizes of fertilizer. I also made the mistake of buying some SOP that I thought was water soluble but it was not so that is the only product that I am currently applying with the spreader but once my supply of that is exhausted I will be looking for a soluble version. I also have some Potassium Nitrate(14-0-46) but I kind of hold back on using that as I want to use the other stuff up first.

As for cost, I would say that I am WAY ahead in that category as I bought 100lbs of Urea and AMS over a year ago and I still have 1 bag of Urea left and about a half a bag of AMS left. I would have to go check my receipts but I think I paid less than $100 for all 4 bags. I would spend a lot more than that on fertilizer on one year just for my lawn. I also bought some Nitrogen Stabilizer(Now that was expensive :thumbup: ) and I have been playing around with that to find out what works best for me but I don't always add it to the mix. I also like the fact that you can pretty much make your own N-P-K ratios for whatever your lawn needs and you can adjust how much or how little you put down and when only applying a small amount you will get a lot more even coverage. I would say the results are about the same right now except I usually don't get that flush of growth like I use to get when we got a good rain event as I am able to control my Nitrogen apps a lot more.

I guess to sum everything up, I don't think liquid fertilizer apps are for everyone and if you do decide to make the plunge, it may take a few years to figure everything out to see what works best for your lawn. I think after next season, I will have a really good understanding of what works and what doesn't when it comes to all of this. You do have to be more aware of what you are applying and when you are applying it as you can get leaf tip burn but so far that is the worst that has happened to me and that will be fixed after a few mowings.


----------



## ThomasPI

Thanks VERY much for the detailed response :thumbup: The cost savings is great as we all know this can get costly. I'm going to try to put together a spreadsheet containing everything from get to go and ensure I've got detailed data I can review over time. Just need to find a good example to start with.


----------



## Keepin It Reel

I have a Field King 4gal backpack sprayer. Today I added 2 gallons of straight water and walked my front and side yard which is 3k sqft. It used about 1.5 gallons to cover that area.

At a rate of 1oz/1k I would need 3oz of Feature to cover 3k sqft. So I filled up the tank to 1.5 gallons of water and added 3oz of product and walked it again.

The packaging isn't specific about how much water needs to be spayed when applying this product and just says "adequate water".

Is my method accurate? I see some guys using 3-5 gallons of water per 1k sqft and I just added 3oz of product to 3k sqft only using 1.5 gallons of water.


----------



## T0R0

MeanDean said:


> I have a Field King 4gal backpack sprayer. Today I added 2 gallons of straight water and walked my front and side yard which is 3k sqft. It used about 1.5 gallons to cover that area.
> 
> At a rate of 1oz/1k I would need 3oz of Feature to cover 3k sqft. So I filled up the tank to 1.5 gallons of water and added 3oz of product and walked it again.
> 
> The packaging isn't specific about how much water needs to be spayed when applying this product and just says "adequate water".
> 
> Is my method accurate? I see some guys using 3-5 gallons of water per 1k sqft and I just added 3oz of product to 3k sqft only using 1.5 gallons of water.


It seems like most people are doing 1 gallon per 1k sqft with a backpack sprayer. You can do 2 gallons per 1k by cutting your rates in half and spraying your yard north to south with on tank and east to west with the second tank. You may need to look into getting some different spray nozzles to adjust how much product/water your putting down per 1k or slow your walking pace down. It's easier to walk at a natural pace and get the nozzle that will give you 1 gallon per 1k at that pace.


----------



## Keepin It Reel

This unit comes with 4 nozzles and the red one is suggested for higher volume and lawns which is what I used. I hope I didn't waste the product by not getting enough water down on the foliag. Would running my sprinklers today help or does Feature even absorbed through soil?

I used this backpack sprayer in February when I applied my preM and while I don't have any major weeds, I wondered then if I'm getting enough water down to make the product as effective as it should be.

For smaller lawns what's the most effective way to apply these products and get the correct ratios down?


----------



## Keepin It Reel

It's been several days since I applied Feature and I cannot see any visible results. Perhaps its no greener than with N alone or the way I applied it didn't provide enough water. However, I did irrigate the following day so that should have helped.


----------



## Belgianbillie

Urea $15 for 50 lbs @ SiteOne
Ammonium Sulfate $22.55 for 50 lbs @ SiteOne
Potassium Sulfate $45 for 25 lbs @ GreenwayBiotech.com 
DPTA Iron $50 for 5 lbs @ Pestrong.com
U-Plus Nitrogen Stabilizer $193* for 25 lbs @ SiteOne

Do i need the nitrogen stabilizer? Should i add some phospherous? I have not done a soil test, but could it hurt if i added a bit. I am planning of switching out the DPTA Iron for the Feature.

I have 32.5k of a lawn and a 31 gallon sprayer. I am thinking i would put down roughly half a pound of N down per 1000sqft which would mean 25lbs of urea and 25 lbs of ammonium sulfate each month. Would that be enough. Right now i do fert twice a year so this is probably a step up.

What teejet nozzles should i use on my sprayer?


----------



## T0R0

Belgianbillie said:


> Urea $15 for 50 lbs @ SiteOne
> Ammonium Sulfate $22.55 for 50 lbs @ SiteOne
> Potassium Sulfate $45 for 25 lbs @ GreenwayBiotech.com
> DPTA Iron $50 for 5 lbs @ Pestrong.com
> U-Plus Nitrogen Stabilizer $193* for 25 lbs @ SiteOne
> 
> Do i need the nitrogen stabilizer? Should i add some phospherous? I have not done a soil test, but could it hurt if i added a bit. I am planning of switching out the DPTA Iron for the Feature.
> 
> I have 32.5k of a lawn and a 31 gallon sprayer. I am thinking i would put down roughly half a pound of N down per 1000sqft which would mean 25lbs of urea and 25 lbs of ammonium sulfate each month. Would that be enough. Right now i do fert twice a year so this is probably a step up.
> 
> What teejet nozzles should i use on my sprayer?


1/2 lb N being sprayed is too much. Hopefully someone with more knowledge chimes in to help you. From what I've been told 1/4 lb N per M is about the limit of a liquid application and you should wash it off the grass blade 4 hours later.

Edit: I use the red turbo teejet and red XR teejet for foliar apps.


----------



## Belgianbillie

T0R0 said:


> Belgianbillie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Urea $15 for 50 lbs @ SiteOne
> Ammonium Sulfate $22.55 for 50 lbs @ SiteOne
> Potassium Sulfate $45 for 25 lbs @ GreenwayBiotech.com
> DPTA Iron $50 for 5 lbs @ Pestrong.com
> U-Plus Nitrogen Stabilizer $193* for 25 lbs @ SiteOne
> 
> Do i need the nitrogen stabilizer? Should i add some phospherous? I have not done a soil test, but could it hurt if i added a bit. I am planning of switching out the DPTA Iron for the Feature.
> 
> I have 32.5k of a lawn and a 31 gallon sprayer. I am thinking i would put down roughly half a pound of N down per 1000sqft which would mean 25lbs of urea and 25 lbs of ammonium sulfate each month. Would that be enough. Right now i do fert twice a year so this is probably a step up.
> 
> What teejet nozzles should i use on my sprayer?
> 
> 
> 
> 1/2 lb N being sprayed is too much. Hopefully someone with more knowledge chimes in to help you. From what I've been told 1/4 lb N per M is about the limit of a liquid application and you should wash it off the grass blade 4 hours later.
> 
> Edit: I use the red turbo teejet and red XR teejet for foliar apps.
Click to expand...

It seems that the OP is putting down close to 1 lb of N per application?


----------



## adgattoni

Belgianbillie said:


> T0R0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belgianbillie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Urea $15 for 50 lbs @ SiteOne
> Ammonium Sulfate $22.55 for 50 lbs @ SiteOne
> Potassium Sulfate $45 for 25 lbs @ GreenwayBiotech.com
> DPTA Iron $50 for 5 lbs @ Pestrong.com
> U-Plus Nitrogen Stabilizer $193* for 25 lbs @ SiteOne
> 
> Do i need the nitrogen stabilizer? Should i add some phospherous? I have not done a soil test, but could it hurt if i added a bit. I am planning of switching out the DPTA Iron for the Feature.
> 
> I have 32.5k of a lawn and a 31 gallon sprayer. I am thinking i would put down roughly half a pound of N down per 1000sqft which would mean 25lbs of urea and 25 lbs of ammonium sulfate each month. Would that be enough. Right now i do fert twice a year so this is probably a step up.
> 
> What teejet nozzles should i use on my sprayer?
> 
> 
> 
> 1/2 lb N being sprayed is too much. Hopefully someone with more knowledge chimes in to help you. From what I've been told 1/4 lb N per M is about the limit of a liquid application and you should wash it off the grass blade 4 hours later.
> 
> Edit: I use the red turbo teejet and red XR teejet for foliar apps.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It seems that the OP is putting down close to 1 lb of N per application?
Click to expand...

Some of the professionals on this site commented later this thread about the rates. They suggested somewhere around 0.1-0.2 lb nitrogen per 1ksqft per app. The foliar applied nitrogen is more readily available to the plant and 1lb applied foliarly will smoke the turf. Somewhere else I saw mentioned that 0.2lb of foliar applied nitrogen is basically equivalent to 1lb of granular applied nitrogen.


----------



## Belgianbillie

Dos that 0.2 include the split between Urea and ammonium sulfate? Like 0.1 each to get 0.2, or 0.2 each?


----------



## Belgianbillie

adgattoni said:


> Belgianbillie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T0R0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1/2 lb N being sprayed is too much. Hopefully someone with more knowledge chimes in to help you. From what I've been told 1/4 lb N per M is about the limit of a liquid application and you should wash it off the grass blade 4 hours later.
> 
> Edit: I use the red turbo teejet and red XR teejet for foliar apps.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that the OP is putting down close to 1 lb of N per application?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some of the professionals on this site commented later this thread about the rates. They suggested somewhere around 0.1-0.2 lb nitrogen per 1ksqft per app. The foliar applied nitrogen is more readily available to the plant and 1lb applied foliarly will smoke the turf. Somewhere else I saw mentioned that 0.2lb of foliar applied nitrogen is basically equivalent to 1lb of granular applied nitrogen.
Click to expand...

What is the advantage of granual application then if you have to put down so much more? That you dont have to do it as often?


----------



## T0R0

Belgianbillie said:


> adgattoni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belgianbillie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that the OP is putting down close to 1 lb of N per application?
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the professionals on this site commented later this thread about the rates. They suggested somewhere around 0.1-0.2 lb nitrogen per 1ksqft per app. The foliar applied nitrogen is more readily available to the plant and 1lb applied foliarly will smoke the turf. Somewhere else I saw mentioned that 0.2lb of foliar applied nitrogen is basically equivalent to 1lb of granular applied nitrogen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the advantage of granual application then if you have to put down so much more? That you dont have to do it as often?
Click to expand...

Ease of application with granular products I suppose. Not everybody has access to a sprayer or the time to invest in spraying weekly.


----------



## T0R0

Belgianbillie said:


> Dos that 0.2 include the split between Urea and ammonium sulfate? Like 0.1 each to get 0.2, or 0.2 each?


That is total N per application. So no matter what source or sources the N comes from keep the N rate below .2 lbs per M. - Math: .20 N/ .21(for the 21% N in 21-0-0)= .95lbs of 21-0-0 per 1M to get .20 N per 1M


----------



## T0R0

Belgianbillie said:


> Dos that 0.2 include the split between Urea and ammonium sulfate? Like 0.1 each to get 0.2, or 0.2 each?


I would also advise you start out at the .10 lbs N per M rate and slowly go up on your rate to see how your grass reacts.


----------



## Tmank87

I've been applying .25lb every 14 days or so. 1 gallon carrier / thousand.

No issues at all. I typically apply in the evening when its cooler. Have never rinsed off.

I also add Feature every other (28 days) at 2oz/K


----------



## Mightyquinn

Belgianbillie said:


> Urea $15 for 50 lbs @ SiteOne
> Ammonium Sulfate $22.55 for 50 lbs @ SiteOne
> Potassium Sulfate $45 for 25 lbs @ GreenwayBiotech.com
> DPTA Iron $50 for 5 lbs @ Pestrong.com
> U-Plus Nitrogen Stabilizer $193* for 25 lbs @ SiteOne
> 
> Do i need the nitrogen stabilizer? Should i add some phospherous? I have not done a soil test, but could it hurt if i added a bit. I am planning of switching out the DPTA Iron for the Feature.
> 
> I have 32.5k of a lawn and a 31 gallon sprayer. I am thinking i would put down roughly half a pound of N down per 1000sqft which would mean 25lbs of urea and 25 lbs of ammonium sulfate each month. Would that be enough. Right now i do fert twice a year so this is probably a step up.
> 
> What teejet nozzles should i use on my sprayer?


Sorry for the late response, This totally slipped my mind :shock:

I'm assuming you haven't bought any of this? I was just posting it as an example and have switched a few of the products since starting this journey. If you are planning on spraying 1 gallon/M(1,000 sq/ft) then you will need to lower your dose of nitrogen unless you are willing to deal with some leaf burn for a week or two. You can use ALL Urea or ALL AMS, I just got both to play around with to see if their is a difference or not. The SOP(Potassium Sulfate) from Greenway Biotech is good stuff but really expensive. Try and find it locally if you can, I have since switched to a granular SOP(I thought it was water soluble but it was NOT ) and Potassium Nitrate(14-0-46) which is sprayable but needs rinsed off the blade almost immediately after application to avoid leaf tip burn. I too have also switched to FEature as I think it's a great all around Iron/Micronutrient supplement. I bought to U-Plus also to play around with to see how I could use it and the jury is still out on it. As for the Phosphorus, I wouldn't add it unless your soil test says you need it but it won't hurt anything if you do add it to the mix. I think when I sprayed 1 gallon/M I used the Red or the Blue TeeJet nozzles. The XRC for foliar apps and the AIC for soil applied apps.


----------



## Belgianbillie

Mightyquinn said:


> Belgianbillie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Urea $15 for 50 lbs @ SiteOne
> Ammonium Sulfate $22.55 for 50 lbs @ SiteOne
> Potassium Sulfate $45 for 25 lbs @ GreenwayBiotech.com
> DPTA Iron $50 for 5 lbs @ Pestrong.com
> U-Plus Nitrogen Stabilizer $193* for 25 lbs @ SiteOne
> 
> Do i need the nitrogen stabilizer? Should i add some phospherous? I have not done a soil test, but could it hurt if i added a bit. I am planning of switching out the DPTA Iron for the Feature.
> 
> I have 32.5k of a lawn and a 31 gallon sprayer. I am thinking i would put down roughly half a pound of N down per 1000sqft which would mean 25lbs of urea and 25 lbs of ammonium sulfate each month. Would that be enough. Right now i do fert twice a year so this is probably a step up.
> 
> What teejet nozzles should i use on my sprayer?
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for the late response, This totally slipped my mind :shock:
> 
> I'm assuming you haven't bought any of this? I was just posting it as an example and have switched a few of the products since starting this journey. If you are planning on spraying 1 gallon/M(1,000 sq/ft) then you will need to lower your dose of nitrogen unless you are willing to deal with some leaf burn for a week or two. You can use ALL Urea or ALL AMS, I just got both to play around with to see if their is a difference or not. The SOP(Potassium Sulfate) from Greenway Biotech is good stuff but really expensive. Try and find it locally if you can, I have since switched to a granular SOP(I thought it was water soluble but it was NOT ) and Potassium Nitrate(14-0-46) which is sprayable but needs rinsed off the blade almost immediately after application to avoid leaf tip burn. I too have also switched to FEature as I think it's a great all around Iron/Micronutrient supplement. I bought to U-Plus also to play around with to see how I could use it and the jury is still out on it. As for the Phosphorus, I wouldn't add it unless your soil test says you need it but it won't hurt anything if you do add it to the mix. I think when I sprayed 1 gallon/M I used the Red or the Blue TeeJet nozzles. The XRC for foliar apps and the AIC for soil applied apps.
Click to expand...

I am pretty lost. I should probably never have bought the sprayer. Site one near me doesnt seem to carry anything that is high in potassium and online it seems excruciatingly expensive to the point where they want you to add tons per acre of product. Do you have any other suggestions or is potassium just not needed.

I cannot wash off any product. I have an acre that is not irrigated.

Thanks for the rest of the advice though


----------



## Belgianbillie

IS it worth adding the potash? AT 53%, a 50 lbs bag will net about 25lb... Greenway biotech says to add 2 lbs per 100sqft which seems like a lot.

Other products like nucleus 0-0-21 says to add 3 oz per 1000sqft every 2 weeks or basically 1.35lb per 32.5M which is the same as a fertilizer that uses 0-0-4


----------



## Belgianbillie

What would happen if i added each 2-3 weeks.

0.24lb of N/M through the soluble urea
10 lb of Feature for the iron (same as a milorganite session)
0.1 lb/M through greenway biotech (0-0-53 55 lbs bag spread out over 9 sessions for a 32.5M lawn)

That would be the equivalent of a 25-0-2 fertilizer where i put down 1 lb per 2 weeks...


----------



## Mightyquinn

Belgianbillie said:


> What would happen if i added each 2-3 weeks.
> 
> 0.24lb of N/M through the soluble urea
> 10 lb of Feature for the iron (same as a milorganite session)
> 0.1 lb/M through greenway biotech (0-0-53 55 lbs bag spread out over 9 sessions for a 32.5M lawn)
> 
> That would be the equivalent of a 25-0-2 fertilizer where i put down 1 lb per 2 weeks...


I think you should be fine but I would only add 5 lbs of FEature per app which would be equivalent to 2oz/M which is around the recommended rate. For the Potassium, look around your area for feed stores or other Landscape supply stores, there has to be someone around you that sells it and it will be MUCH cheaper especially with all the land you have to fertilize. Also look at seed stores too. I had to drive about an hour each way to find some but it was well worth the trip since it saved so much money on shipping.

I wouldn't worry too much about the P or K until you get a soil test but if you want to add some K it won't hurt anything as the lawn uses a good amount of K just not as much as it does Nitrogen.


----------



## Belgianbillie

5lb of feature / M ? or 5lb of feature over a 32.5M yard?

For P, does it make a difference is it is sulfate or the other one? M something


----------



## T0R0

Belgianbillie said:


> 5lb of feature / M ? or 5lb of feature over a 32.5M yard?
> 
> For P, does it make a difference is it is sulfate or the other one? M something


The rate is 2oz per M... so that would be 5lb for your entire yard.


----------



## Mightyquinn

Belgianbillie said:


> 5lb of feature / M ? or 5lb of feature over a 32.5M yard?
> 
> For P, does it make a difference is it is sulfate or the other one? M something


Sorry about the confusion but I have been trying to use M=1,000 sq/ft instead of K since "K" can be confused with Potassium. I think most of the regulars here have made the switch already and I think it's just a good practice to follow :thumbup:

According to your profile you have 1 acre of lawn but if you only have 32.5M of lawn then all you would need is 4 lbs for the whole lawn.

You want Sulfate (SOP) NOT MOP which is Muriate of Potash which has chloride in it which I'm sure your lawn doesn't need. It's just a little harsher form of Potassium.


----------



## J_nick

M = 1000 in Roman numerals


----------



## Belgianbillie

Isn't that a very low amount of iron? Much lower as what is put down with milorganite?


----------



## Belgianbillie

Mightyquinn said:


> Belgianbillie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5lb of feature / M ? or 5lb of feature over a 32.5M yard?
> 
> For P, does it make a difference is it is sulfate or the other one? M something
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry about the confusion but I have been trying to use M=1,000 sq/ft instead of K since "K" can be confused with Potassium. I think most of the regulars here have made the switch already and I think it's just a good practice to follow :thumbup:
> 
> According to your profile you have 1 acre of lawn but if you only have 32.5M of lawn then all you would need is 4 lbs for the whole lawn.
> 
> You want Sulfate (SOP) NOT MOP which is Muriate of Potash which has chloride in it which I'm sure your lawn doesn't need. It's just a little harsher form of Potassium.
Click to expand...

Yea, i have a 1.1 acre lot, but i think based on the sodsolutions area calculator the back is 27500 and front is 5000.


----------



## Mightyquinn

Belgianbillie said:


> Isn't that a very low amount of iron? Much lower as what is put down with milorganite?


It may be, but FEature is foliar applied and Milo is taken up through the roots, so the grass is going to get more of it faster than with Milo.


----------



## Belgianbillie

Mightyquinn said:


> Belgianbillie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that a very low amount of iron? Much lower as what is put down with milorganite?
> 
> 
> 
> It may be, but FEature is foliar applied and Milo is taken up through the roots, so the grass is going to get more of it faster than with Milo.
Click to expand...

I actually misread. I thought the bags were 20lb but they are only 3 lb right. Do you think i will notice anything if i just put down 1 bag?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Belgianbillie said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belgianbillie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that a very low amount of iron? Much lower as what is put down with milorganite?
> 
> 
> 
> It may be, but FEature is foliar applied and Milo is taken up through the roots, so the grass is going to get more of it faster than with Milo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually misread. I thought the bags were 20lb but they are only 3 lb right. Do you think i will notice anything if i just put down 1 bag?
Click to expand...

You may just want to start off with one 3lb bag and see how it goes and see what kind of response you get. You can always up the dose on your next spray. There are no hard and fast rules when it comes to spraying fertilizers as every lawn is different and will require different amounts to get it looking like you want.


----------



## Brackin4au

EPestHero has free shipping too, so even if you just bought (1) 3lb bag to try, it's free shipping. That helps. Then as mentioned before, buying more at a time is a discounted rate. I have 21k and bought (1) bag to try, loved it, so went back and ordered the (5) bag option. Which was just a few dollars over the cost of (4) bags individually.


----------



## JTCJC

Thanks for the great thread!

One question. I just made a foliar application of Feature. How long should I wait before watering the lawn? Thanks in advance.


----------



## ktgrok

So, this seems the right place to ask this: I'm currently spraying Gordon's Lawn and Pasture 20-0-0 at 0.25lb N per 1Ksqft on a weekly basis. If I wanted to add potassium to that, would this water soluble product be the right way to do that? https://www.seedworldusa.com/products/sulfate-of-potash-0-0-52-granular-fertilizer-50-lbs
My soil test shows low potassium which is pretty typical for this area, but high phosphorus, also typical, so seems this would give me what I need. And then I also have some Lawnstar chelated iron I plan to add every few weeks. Thoughts?


----------



## Mightyquinn

JTCJC said:


> Thanks for the great thread!
> 
> One question. I just made a foliar application of Feature. How long should I wait before watering the lawn? Thanks in advance.


You can wait a few hours or overnight is fine.


----------



## Mightyquinn

ktgrok said:


> So, this seems the right place to ask this: I'm currently spraying Gordon's Lawn and Pasture 20-0-0 at 0.25lb N per 1Ksqft on a weekly basis. If I wanted to add potassium to that, would this water soluble product be the right way to do that? https://www.seedworldusa.com/products/sulfate-of-potash-0-0-52-granular-fertilizer-50-lbs
> My soil test shows low potassium which is pretty typical for this area, but high phosphorus, also typical, so seems this would give me what I need. And then I also have some Lawnstar chelated iron I plan to add every few weeks. Thoughts?


If you can get that SOP at a good price then that will be just fine to use. I wouldn't buy it online as the shipping will kill you. Try and find something similar locally if you can.


----------



## ktgrok

Mightyquinn said:


> ktgrok said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, this seems the right place to ask this: I'm currently spraying Gordon's Lawn and Pasture 20-0-0 at 0.25lb N per 1Ksqft on a weekly basis. If I wanted to add potassium to that, would this water soluble product be the right way to do that? https://www.seedworldusa.com/products/sulfate-of-potash-0-0-52-granular-fertilizer-50-lbs
> My soil test shows low potassium which is pretty typical for this area, but high phosphorus, also typical, so seems this would give me what I need. And then I also have some Lawnstar chelated iron I plan to add every few weeks. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> If you can get that SOP at a good price then that will be just fine to use. I wouldn't buy it online as the shipping will kill you. Try and find something similar locally if you can.
Click to expand...

Yeah, for fun I checked the shipping, it doubled the cost. Sigh. I think there is a Site One a few towns over, seems like something they might carry.


----------



## ktgrok

So, I got some 0-0-63 and some 21-0-0 from Sunniland Fertilizer's wholesale store, they are local to me. Applied a spray of 0.1 lbs N and 0.3lbs K per thousand square feet and the grass LOVED it. So definitely will be playing around with this, and wondering if i should get some urea to mix in as well to balance the high salt index of the AS?

Not going to worry about iron at this point, as I have Feature to mix in as needed. Speaking of which, how often to use Feature is another question. Every other week at usual dose or half rate every week or?


----------



## Mightyquinn

ktgrok said:


> So, I got some 0-0-63 and some 21-0-0 from Sunniland Fertilizer's wholesale store, they are local to me. Applied a spray of 0.1 lbs N and 0.3lbs K per thousand square feet and the grass LOVED it. So definitely will be playing around with this, and wondering if i should get some urea to mix in as well to balance the high salt index of the AS?
> 
> Not going to worry about iron at this point, as I have Feature to mix in as needed. Speaking of which, how often to use Feature is another question. Every other week at usual dose or half rate every week or?


Just a heads up, the 0-0-63 is most likely MOP(Muriate of Potash) which is a cheaper version of SOP(Sulfate of Potash) it has a lot more Chlorine in it and can be a little more harsh on the lawn. I always try to recommend getting SOP as it also has Sulfur in it which most lawns need. I would buy a bag of Urea and see what results you get from it as it may be cheaper per application over the AMS(Ammonium Sulfate).

The FEature can be added and sprayed as often as you want. You will most likely have to play around with the application amounts and frequency to see what best works on your lawn.


----------



## ktgrok

Yeah,it is Muriate, which isn't what I wanted but I didn't realize until I got it home (and the place is 30 minutes away). Shouldn't have taken a 2 yr old with me to distract me...I just didn't think to ask and the loaded it up for me so didn't see the bag. If I stick to say, about 1/3 lbs K per 1,000 (about half a pound of product) each application do you think it will hurt anything? Or even 0.6lbs K per 1,000? My soil is low on potassium, and I'd like to use this since I have it, but not if it's going to stress my lawn out. That said, I'm reading that chlorine is unlikely to be an issue in sandy soil where there is adequate rainfall. I've got tons of rain, and very sandy, fast draining soil, so it should leach right back out.

with the AMS I'm mainly concerned with burning the grass or overly acidifying the soil. If that's not a huge concern I may just stick with it. Otherwise I'll get some Urea to mix in.


----------



## Mightyquinn

ktgrok said:


> Yeah,it is Muriate, which isn't what I wanted but I didn't realize until I got it home (and the place is 30 minutes away). Shouldn't have taken a 2 yr old with me to distract me...I just didn't think to ask and the loaded it up for me so didn't see the bag. If I stick to say, about 1/3 lbs K per 1,000 (about half a pound of product) each application do you think it will hurt anything? Or even 0.6lbs K per 1,000? My soil is low on potassium, and I'd like to use this since I have it, but not if it's going to stress my lawn out. That said, I'm reading that chlorine is unlikely to be an issue in sandy soil where there is adequate rainfall. I've got tons of rain, and very sandy, fast draining soil, so it should leach right back out.
> 
> with the AMS I'm mainly concerned with burning the grass or overly acidifying the soil. If that's not a huge concern I may just stick with it. Otherwise I'll get some Urea to mix in.


I've never used MOP before so I have no idea what the limits are. As far as I know there shouldn't be any issues with burning from Potash and you are correct that the Chlorine in it shouldn't have any negative effect on your lawn but it's just something I try to stay away from if at all possible. I think it's going to come down to one of those things that you will need to experiment to see what YOUR limits are and what you feel safe at applying. Any damage that might occur will probably be fixed with 2-3 mowings :thumbup:

You can burn the lawn just as easy with Urea as you can with AMS so you will just have to decide what is best for you. What is your pH at ? That would be my deciding factor on what to use. If you have a high pH I would stick with AMS but if you are trying to raise your pH I would use the Urea as it will have less of an effect on lowering your pH.


----------



## ktgrok

Ph is 6.5, last I checked. Other tests have put it right about 6.


----------



## Mightyquinn

You are right in that sweet spot so you could go either way


----------



## ktgrok

Mightyquinn said:


> You are right in that sweet spot so you could go either way



I'm thinking, since there is sulfur in the AS, that it might be overboard to do the sulfate of potash. And as my soil is technically "excessively drained thick sand" I'm not going to worry too much about the chlorine for the moment.

Also, going to be putting down a bag of XGRN 8-1-8, mostly for the organic matter so the liquid spoon-feeding won't be my total source of N, so may stick with the AS for now, and grab a bag of Urea to mix in next time I'm picking something else up rather than make an extra trip.


----------



## TNTurf

I'm glad you guys put this together. I would need 6oz per thousand of 46-0-0 if my math is right. A 50lb bag should provide 15 applications. (Roughly) Did you guys say if I can mix this with herbicides? I have been spot spraying Celsius but seeing more spurge lately and thought about one broadcast app to catch it all.


----------



## Mightyquinn

TNTurf said:


> I'm glad you guys put this together. I would need 6oz per thousand of 46-0-0 if my math is right. A 50lb bag should provide 15 applications. (Roughly) Did you guys say if I can mix this with herbicides? I have been spot spraying Celsius but seeing more spurge lately and thought about one broadcast app to catch it all.


6oz/M of what? 46-0-0? What application rate are you shooting for?

Actually, mixing fertilizer(Nitrogen) in with a weed killer should help it work even better :thumbup:


----------



## TNTurf

Mightyquinn said:


> TNTurf said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad you guys put this together. I would need 6oz per thousand of 46-0-0 if my math is right. A 50lb bag should provide 15 applications. (Roughly) Did you guys say if I can mix this with herbicides? I have been spot spraying Celsius but seeing more spurge lately and thought about one broadcast app to catch it all.
> 
> 
> 
> 6oz/M of what? 46-0-0? What application rate are you shooting for?
> 
> Actually, mixing fertilizer(Nitrogen) in with a weed killer should help it work even better :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Correct. 6oz (weight) of 46-0-0 to apply about .2 lb of nitrogen per M. (Really I need 6.4 but just under .2 should be ok) I have read here I maybe want .2 or .1. If that is the case I was guessing 6 oz would be a good easy number to deal with.

I dont want to get this off track but I have not used any fast release nitrogen since early June. I have applied Milorganite and have been using Feature in my PGR. Lawn is deep green with no issue until recently I started to notice what was called out by Ware as Dollar Spot. My response to that is getting back on the nitrogen applications. I would rather spray than spread for the reasons named here. More even application, less product used, hopefully less chance for burn. Last two applications of granular left small burn spots all over since it was not watered in enough. I dont have irrigation so I time it with rain if I can but the rains have been too short. Anyhow, sorry for getting off track. I had no idea until I read this thread I could melt and spray the urea. With my Gregson Clark spray setup its pretty easy to get the job done so I have moved everything in that direction. Thanks.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

Hey @Mightyquinn thanks for the write up and information, this is awesome. I've read through this entire post and I'm still a bit confused about doing a Foliar application of urea. I can get the same 46-0-0 from my Site One and I have a boom sprayer calibrated to 1 gal per 1000. My lawn is 26,000 sq ft, so 26 gallons of water when I spray. I have several bags of Main Event I would like to add in and I would like to put down .25#/M of nitrogen. What would my mix rate look like? I have a hard time with the liquid conversions. Thanks!


----------



## TNTurf

Philly_Gunner said:


> Hey @Mightyquinn thanks for the write up and information, this is awesome. I've read through this entire post and I'm still a bit confused about doing a Foliar application of urea. I can get the same 46-0-0 from my Site One and I have a boom sprayer calibrated to 1 gal per 1000. My lawn is 26,000 sq ft, so 26 gallons of water when I spray. I have several bags of Main Event I would like to add in and I would like to put down .25#/M of nitrogen. What would my mix rate look like? I have a hard time with the liquid conversions. Thanks!


I use 1 pound of Feature per 8k square feet. I assume the Main Event would be the same.


----------



## Mightyquinn

Philly_Gunner said:


> Hey @Mightyquinn thanks for the write up and information, this is awesome. I've read through this entire post and I'm still a bit confused about doing a Foliar application of urea. I can get the same 46-0-0 from my Site One and I have a boom sprayer calibrated to 1 gal per 1000. My lawn is 26,000 sq ft, so 26 gallons of water when I spray. I have several bags of Main Event I would like to add in and I would like to put down .25#/M of nitrogen. What would my mix rate look like? I have a hard time with the liquid conversions. Thanks!


For .25#'s of Nitrogen/M you would need 13 lbs of Urea for 26M and if you are adding in the Main Event you would need 3.25 lbs of it for your lawn at the 2oz. rate.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

TNTurf said:


> Philly_Gunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey @Mightyquinn thanks for the write up and information, this is awesome. I've read through this entire post and I'm still a bit confused about doing a Foliar application of urea. I can get the same 46-0-0 from my Site One and I have a boom sprayer calibrated to 1 gal per 1000. My lawn is 26,000 sq ft, so 26 gallons of water when I spray. I have several bags of Main Event I would like to add in and I would like to put down .25#/M of nitrogen. What would my mix rate look like? I have a hard time with the liquid conversions. Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if you are asking about the nitrogen or the iron. Nitrogen, 46 tells you nearly half of every pound is nitrogen. If you melt and spray, .25 lb per thousand is a good number. So you would need a half pound dry per thousand to get 1/4 lb per thousand applied . 13 dry pounds will be melted and sprayed for 26k square feet. On the iron, I use 1 lb for 8k but I see some use more. If Main Event is like feature you would want about 3 lbs for your lawn. More or less wont hurt the lawn, its more about cost. It's not a one time only application this is something that is done on a repeating basis.
> 
> Hope that make sense. On the math, using dry fert you would normally go about a pound per thousand on nitrogen. So, with 46% per pound you would need two pounds of dry to get to 100%. (its 92 in reality but close enough to 100). If you want a quarter pound, you want half of the dry pound or 23%.
Click to expand...

Perfect!! Thank you both for your answers, that helps a lot. Going to allow one more week of growth with these higher temps and give this a shot next weekend. Stay tuned. 😬


----------



## Philly_Gunner

Mightyquinn said:


> Philly_Gunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey @Mightyquinn thanks for the write up and information, this is awesome. I've read through this entire post and I'm still a bit confused about doing a Foliar application of urea. I can get the same 46-0-0 from my Site One and I have a boom sprayer calibrated to 1 gal per 1000. My lawn is 26,000 sq ft, so 26 gallons of water when I spray. I have several bags of Main Event I would like to add in and I would like to put down .25#/M of nitrogen. What would my mix rate look like? I have a hard time with the liquid conversions. Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> For .25#'s of Nitrogen/M you would need 13 lbs of Urea for 26M and if you are adding in the Main Event you would need 3.25 lbs of it for your lawn at the 2oz. rate.
Click to expand...

So @Mightyquinn I decided to take the plunge yesterday. Found some 21-0-0 ammonium sulfate. I figured I needed around 30 pounds to hit my .25/M target. 100/21= 4.7, 4.7x26=123, 123x.25=30.75. I melted it down, filtered/screened it several times over to get out any debris and then mixed it with 3 lbs of Main Event. Applied it via a boom sprayer, let it sit for about 3 hours and then watered it in. Pretty sure my math and application were correct, just crossing my fingers that I see some positive results. Time will tell!!


----------



## Mightyquinn

It looks like your math is correct but you could have just put down 1 lb/M and been just fine, you lawn isn't going to know the difference between .04 lbs. :thumbup:


----------



## TNTurf

> So @Mightyquinn I decided to take the plunge yesterday. Found some 21-0-0 ammonium sulfate. I figured I needed around 30 pounds to hit my .25/M target. 100/21= 4.7, 4.7x26=123, 123x.25=30.75. I melted it down, filtered/screened it several times over to get out any debris and then mixed it with 3 lbs of Main Event. Applied it via a boom sprayer, let it sit for about 3 hours and then watered it in. Pretty sure my math and application were correct, just crossing my fingers that I see some positive results. Time will tell!!


The math is good but too long. Ha. 21 in the mix tells you roughly a quarter of the pound will be nitrogen. So, figure about a pound of dry per thousand square feet and round up a lille. A quarter rate would be 25 or .25 so 21 is about there. Follow me? Your math is fine but to shorten the process just look at the N number and figure that is a percentage. If you bought a 46-0-0 you would want half a pound per thousand to get your quarter rate since 46 is roughly double the .25. Hope that is easier to follow. Standing in the garage ready to spray I don't want to look for my slide scale. Kidding but really its pretty straight forward.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

TNTurf said:


> So @Mightyquinn I decided to take the plunge yesterday. Found some 21-0-0 ammonium sulfate. I figured I needed around 30 pounds to hit my .25/M target. 100/21= 4.7, 4.7x26=123, 123x.25=30.75. I melted it down, filtered/screened it several times over to get out any debris and then mixed it with 3 lbs of Main Event. Applied it via a boom sprayer, let it sit for about 3 hours and then watered it in. Pretty sure my math and application were correct, just crossing my fingers that I see some positive results. Time will tell!!
> 
> 
> 
> The math is good but too long. Ha. 21 in the mix tells you roughly a quarter of the pound will be nitrogen. So, figure about a pound of dry per thousand square feet and round up a lille. A quarter rate would be 25 or .25 so 21 is about there. Follow me? Your math is fine but to shorten the process just look at the N number and figure that is a percentage. If you bought a 46-0-0 you would want half a pound per thousand to get your quarter rate since 46 is roughly double the .25. Hope that is easier to follow. Standing in the garage ready to spray I don't want to look for my slide scale. Kidding but really its pretty straight forward.
Click to expand...

I know, I over think things and get caught up in the minutia of everything. Guess it's better that than making a mistake that I have to scramble to fix. Pretty excited to see the results. Thanks again for the help.


----------



## Coach8

What have you guys found is the conversion from granular to liquid on urea? After reading through the thread, it seems like in liquid form it requires less N than in granular, if I am understanding correctly. I plan on pushing my bermuda starting with my next fertilizer application doing granular 46-0-0 at .75# N/1000 every other week for a total of 1.5# of N per month, to fill in some thin spots that I still have. Once I convert to a battery powered sprayer (as soon as Sprayers Plus has the 105EX back in stock), I would like to try going all liquid. So to reach my 1.5# per month of granular N, what rate would you recommend me going with liquid?


----------



## TNTurf

Coach8 said:


> What have you guys found is the conversion from granular to liquid on urea? After reading through the thread, it seems like in liquid form it requires less N than in granular, if I am understanding correctly. I plan on pushing my bermuda starting with my next fertilizer application doing granular 46-0-0 at .75# N/1000 every other week for a total of 1.5# of N per month, to fill in some thin spots that I still have. Once I convert to a battery powered sprayer (as soon as Sprayers Plus has the 105EX back in stock), I would like to try going all liquid. So to reach my 1.5# per month of granular N, what rate would you recommend me going with liquid?


It's not that you need less liquid than granular, its that the grass (leaf blade) will burn if you apply at the same rate as dry. The .25 rate is a safe number to go with but you still need to consider the per month application rate. The .25 is just per application but overall you can get by with less dry fertilizer used per month and still have a good result. The dry is applied and not all will make it to the grass but with spraying you are guaranteed to get the food to the leaf. During the summer I am applying PGR often, about every 10 days or so and into that I add my .25 rate of nitrogen and my iron and hit it all at once. I'm not saying this is the way to go but its the way I go and I have been fine. I had a dollar spot issue last year that may have been due to lack of food, not sure, but this year I added fungicide to the mix so we will see. Good luck.


----------



## Mightyquinn

TNTurf said:


> Coach8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What have you guys found is the conversion from granular to liquid on urea? After reading through the thread, it seems like in liquid form it requires less N than in granular, if I am understanding correctly. I plan on pushing my bermuda starting with my next fertilizer application doing granular 46-0-0 at .75# N/1000 every other week for a total of 1.5# of N per month, to fill in some thin spots that I still have. Once I convert to a battery powered sprayer (as soon as Sprayers Plus has the 105EX back in stock), I would like to try going all liquid. So to reach my 1.5# per month of granular N, what rate would you recommend me going with liquid?
> 
> 
> 
> It's not that you need less liquid than granular, its that the grass (leaf blade) will burn if you apply at the same rate as dry. The .25 rate is a safe number to go with but you still need to consider the per month application rate. The .25 is just per application but overall you can get by with less dry fertilizer used per month and still have a good result. The dry is applied and not all will make it to the grass but with spraying you are guaranteed to get the food to the leaf. During the summer I am applying PGR often, about every 10 days or so and into that I add my .25 rate of nitrogen and my iron and hit it all at once. I'm not saying this is the way to go but its the way I go and I have been fine. I had a dollar spot issue last year that may have been due to lack of food, not sure, but this year I added fungicide to the mix so we will see. Good luck.
Click to expand...

+1 I basically do the same thing and I too had Dollar spot issues last year but I think it was more from my watering than from anything else. I let my Rachio do it's thing last year for the most part and even though it kept the lawn well watered, I think I was over watering which led to the lawn developing Dollar Spot. I am going to try and keep it a little more lean on the water this year and see how it goes. I still have some AMS i need to use up too but I prefer the Urea over the AMS as it doesn't seem to burn as easily.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

@Mightyquinn would there be any benefit to combining nitrate and sulfate 50/50 in the same spray, is it even tank compatible? I had given some thought to this but wondered if it was worth the effort.


----------



## Mightyquinn

Philly_Gunner said:


> @Mightyquinn would there be any benefit to combining nitrate and sulfate 50/50 in the same spray, is it even tank compatible? I had given some thought to this but wondered if it was worth the effort.


Are you talking about combining Urea and AMS? If so then yes you can, I have done it before without any mixing issues but it will make the solution "hotter" which has a higher potential for burn but anytime you increase your Nitrogen % that can happen.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

Mightyquinn said:


> Philly_Gunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Mightyquinn would there be any benefit to combining nitrate and sulfate 50/50 in the same spray, is it even tank compatible? I had given some thought to this but wondered if it was worth the effort.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you talking about combining Urea and AMS? If so then yes you can, I have done it before without any mixing issues but it will make the solution "hotter" which has a higher potential for burn but anytime you increase your Nitrogen % that can happen.
Click to expand...

My pH on my latest soil test was 7.7 so I was considering sticking with the AMS due to its higher acidity and the added benefit of sulfur. However, your comment in regards to preferring urea had me considering it instead. My last Foliar app of 21-0-0 AMS, 5 days ago, seems to have jump started the lawn, especially from a color standpoint. I'm planning to level 20 days from now so I'm really wanting to drive the growth.


----------



## Mightyquinn

There is nothing wrong with AMS I just like the bang for the buck with Urea as you usually get more for less with a 50lb bag.


----------



## Bermuda_Triangle

Has anyone been able to find Feature 6-0-0 for sale?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Bermuda_Triangle said:


> Has anyone been able to find Feature 6-0-0 for sale?


Not online, the one retailer that sold it went out of business. A lot of people, including myself, have switched to Main Event. If you spend over $100 you get free shipping so it's more cost effective.

Looks like the price went up $1 since the last time I bought some


----------



## Bermuda_Triangle

@Mightyquinn Thanks for the update!


----------



## Backyard Soldier

Mightyquinn said:


> Bermuda_Triangle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone been able to find Feature 6-0-0 for sale?
> 
> 
> 
> Not online, the one retailer that sold it went out of business. A lot of people, including myself, have switched to Main Event. If you spend over $100 you get free shipping so it's more cost effective.
> 
> Looks like the price went up $1 since the last time I bought some
Click to expand...

How would you judge their comparisons rank? You're liking same? Results good? I was fortunate to grab about 6 bags of FEature last year so I still have a good supply, but looking into future


----------



## iFisch3224

Mightyquinn said:


> Bermuda_Triangle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone been able to find Feature 6-0-0 for sale?
> 
> 
> 
> Not online, the one retailer that sold it went out of business. A lot of people, including myself, have switched to Main Event. If you spend over $100 you get free shipping so it's more cost effective.
> 
> Looks like the price went up $1 since the last time I bought some
Click to expand...

Any info or thoughts about this product?

https://www.midwestarboristsupplies.com/product/ferro-late-13-iron/


----------



## Mightyquinn

@Backyard Soldier I haven't used the Main Event yet so I can not say whether it's better or not as I am still working through the FEature I have left over.

@iFisch3224 I am sure it's good stuff but it seems a little expensive for what it is. I guess it all depends on what your soil pH is.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

Mightyquinn said:


> @Backyard Soldier I haven't used the Main Event yet so I can not say whether it's better or not as I am still working through the FEature I have left over.
> 
> @iFisch3224 I am sure it's good stuff but it seems a little expensive for what it is. I guess it all depends on what your soil pH is.


I used Main Event and it's great. Essentially the exact same. Didn't stain concrete and I definitely got a green pop from it.

@iFisch3224 that website always looks good but the shipping for their products is Murder.


----------



## FlaDave

I've used both feature and main event and imo the results were the same. Some have said the main event was underwhelming, I'm sure there's some science behind it but idk. There's also turf grass pro 6-0-0 that appears to be along the same lines. I have not tried that one but there are some here that have.


----------



## T0R0

Bermuda_Triangle said:


> Has anyone been able to find Feature 6-0-0 for sale?


Click the link below and see if you have a location near you or call the closet location and see if they can ship to you or possibly have it drop shipped to you. That's what I did and the price for 6lbs of Feature 6-0-0 was less than the online price from the retailer that went out of business.

https://www.nutrienagsolutions.com/...c=158493605.1.1589512284712&__hsfp=1971688531


----------



## iFisch3224

T0R0 said:


> Bermuda_Triangle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone been able to find Feature 6-0-0 for sale?
> 
> 
> 
> Click the link below and see if you have a location near you or call the closet location and see if they can ship to you or possibly have it drop shipped to you. That's what I did and the price for 6lbs of Feature 6-0-0 was less than the online price from the retailer that went out of business.
> 
> https://www.nutrienagsolutions.com/...c=158493605.1.1589512284712&__hsfp=1971688531
Click to expand...

Yeah, I sent out a few e-mails a few days ago. With the COVID - some places are closed while SiteOne has recently re-opened (I'm in Michigan, still TONS of cases).

Haven't heard back - if I can get a case, I'd love to share with the members here at cost + S&H.


----------



## thangkhungdien

T0R0 said:


> Bermuda_Triangle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone been able to find Feature 6-0-0 for sale?
> 
> 
> 
> Click the link below and see if you have a location near you or call the closet location and see if they can ship to you or possibly have it drop shipped to you. That's what I did and the price for 6lbs of Feature 6-0-0 was less than the online price from the retailer that went out of business.
> 
> Which location did you get it from? I tried in TX and no luck.
> 
> https://www.nutrienagsolutions.com/...c=158493605.1.1589512284712&__hsfp=1971688531
Click to expand...


----------



## Bermuda_Triangle

Just letting everyone know Main Event is sold out at Midwest Arborist Supplies.


----------



## Marlon

Movingshrub said:


> Regarding the nitrogen stabilizer, what benefit are you looking to get considering you will be applying a fast release product every three weeks? I wouldn't think you would have any color drop off from lack of N over a three week period. Trying to smooth out peaks and valleys of nitrogen in the soil? If I understand, you are applying one pound of urea and one pound if ammonium sulfate for 0.68 pounds of N per 1,000 square feet. My understanding is that Bermuda generally calls for between 1-1.5lb of N per 1ks/sqft. So, I take it your goal of the stabilizer is to get away with a reduced overall input of nitrogen, although not that much of a reduction.


Based on some research, foliar spray application of nitrogen is 1/4 the requirement of granules (1#N/1,000 sq. ft). Please confirm this. This is one of the advantages of spray - you need only to apply .25 lb N!


----------



## Jagermeister

@Mightyquinn Have you updated your fertilizer plan for 2021? How were the results from your original plan and what has changed? I am new getting into spraying liquids!


----------



## Mightyquinn

Well, I just installed TifGrand a couple of weeks ago so I will most likely will be switching it up a little bit but for right now I am basically using Urea(46-0-0), Potassium Nitrate (14-0-46) and Main Event for my fertilizers. I also have some Lesco U-Plus nitrogen stabilizer that I add into the mix but not sure how effective that stuff is. I am probably going to go towards a 1:2 ratio of N as TifGrand doesn't require as much Nitrogen as other Bermuda's.


----------



## Jagermeister

@Mightyquinn How often are you applying and how much N each time? What is your carrier volume per 1000? I can't see myself doing .25 lbs / week every week so would like to try and extend that out to 3 weeks and time with a PGR app.


----------



## Marlon

Are you getting urea and KNO3 From Lesco/site one?


----------



## Mightyquinn

I was applying about .50 lbs of Nitrogen every 3 weeks with 3 gallons of water per 1000 when I applied my PGR but that was with the Tifway 419 that I had. I haven't really fertilized the TifGrand yet as it is still feeding off the 10-10-10 I applied when I laid it. You are only going to get 2-3 weeks of feeding off of a fast release Nitrogen source unless you add a Nitrogen Stabilizer or slow release to it.


----------



## Jagermeister

I just started using The Anderson's HCU urea. Grass seems to have responded well and was easy to dissolve.


----------



## Mightyquinn

Just thought I would give a quick update to my fertilizing plan, I know a few posts back I commented on it but thought I would give a more definitive answer.

As of right now I think I have settled on Urea(46-0-0) and Potassium Nitrate(13-0-46) for my main fertilizer needs. They both easily dissolve in water and are fairly safe to spray on the lawn as I haven't had any leaf tip burn since using them. They are both also very inexpensive for the most part. I also believe Potassium is a very over looked nutrient and I think it's almost as important as Nitrogen when feeding the lawn.

The only other "fertilizer" I plan on using is Main Event Iron for the Iron obviously and the micro nutrients it has. I do plan on doing a soil test this Winter but really only expect to have to add some Lime to the lawn to raise the pH which I am sure is low.

Other than that I only plan on spraying PGR when needed, Bifen monthly, Imidacloprid quarterly and Prodiamine in the Spring and Fall. I only spray for weeds when I have enough of them to justify spraying and plan on using a wetting agent monthly starting next year.


----------



## gooodawgs

Thanks @Mightyquinn for posting this. My soil report suggested only Nitrogen this year, so I've been only spraying Urea (.25 to .5 pounds N every 2-3 weeks) and I follow your Bifen and Imidacloprid schedule. I was wondering if I need any other nutrients (outside of FeATURE every time with PGR).

How often and what rates are you doing the Potassium Nitrate? Thanks again


----------



## Mightyquinn

I have been hitting it with 1 lb of Potassium a month divided into 2 apps every two weeks. I've noticed that the grass seems a lot more drought tolerant, not sure if it's the grass or the Potassium.


----------



## Theycallmemrr

@Mightyquinn 


Mightyquinn said:


> Just thought I would give a quick update to my fertilizing plan, I know a few posts back I commented on it but thought I would give a more definitive answer.
> 
> As of right now I think I have settled on Urea(46-0-0) and Potassium Nitrate(13-0-46) for my main fertilizer needs. They both easily dissolve in water and are fairly safe to spray on the lawn as I haven't had any leaf tip burn since using them. They are both also very inexpensive for the most part. I also believe Potassium is a very over looked nutrient and I think it's almost as important as Nitrogen when feeding the lawn.
> 
> The only other "fertilizer" I plan on using is Main Event Iron for the Iron obviously and the micro nutrients it has. I do plan on doing a soil test this Winter but really only expect to have to add some Lime to the lawn to raise the pH which I am sure is low.
> 
> Other than that I only plan on spraying PGR when needed, Bifen monthly, Imidacloprid quarterly and Prodiamine in the Spring and Fall. I only spray for weeds when I have enough of them to justify spraying and plan on using a wetting agent monthly starting next year.


Do you spray both the Urea and KNO3 at the same time? If so how much of each are you spraying per M?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Yes, I do spray them both at the same time. It depends on what the lawn is telling me. I usually apply 1 lb of KNO3/M and then maybe throw in .25-.5 lbs of Urea/M. I'm trying to keep Nitrogen to a minimum and see what I can get away with. It's easier to add then to take away.


----------



## lawndog

The iron seems way too expensive with the shipping added on. Where do you buy the main event?


----------



## Mightyquinn

lawndog said:


> The iron seems way too expensive with the shipping added on. Where do you buy the main event?


I get my Main Event at Midwest Arborists Supplies. If you buy 5 bags you get free shipping. Thats what I did as I figure I'm going to use it all anyway and as long as you keep it dry it will last forever. Plus it's like getting a free bag since you aren't paying for shipping.


----------



## gooodawgs

@Mightyquinn for your potassium nitrate does it say "sprayable" on the bag? I saw some 0-0-60 at site one and it didnt indicate that it was water soluble like my urea bag says...


----------



## Marlon

The water solubility of KNO3 is: 35g/100ml, which is basically 35%!


----------



## Theycallmemrr

Mightyquinn said:


> Yes, I do spray them both at the same time. It depends on what the lawn is telling me. I usually apply 1 lb of KNO3/M and then maybe throw in .25-.5 lbs of Urea/M. I'm trying to keep Nitrogen to a minimum and see what I can get away with. It's easier to add then to take away.


@Mightyquinn 
Thank you sir.


----------



## Mightyquinn

gooodawgs said:


> @Mightyquinn for your potassium nitrate does it say "sprayable" on the bag? I saw some 0-0-60 at site one and it didnt indicate that it was water soluble like my urea bag says...


Yes it does say sprayable on the bag. Not all Potassium is sprayable. The 0-0-60 is Muriate of Potash which has Chlorine in it. I would try and stay away from that unless that is all you can get.


----------



## Marlon

Yes, KCl is not good for turf...


----------



## themac

Mightyquinn said:


> Just thought I would give a quick update to my fertilizing plan, I know a few posts back I commented on it but thought I would give a more definitive answer.
> 
> As of right now I think I have settled on Urea(46-0-0) and Potassium Nitrate(13-0-46) for my main fertilizer needs. They both easily dissolve in water and are fairly safe to spray on the lawn as I haven't had any leaf tip burn since using them. They are both also very inexpensive for the most part. I also believe Potassium is a very over looked nutrient and I think it's almost as important as Nitrogen when feeding the lawn.
> 
> The only other "fertilizer" I plan on using is Main Event Iron for the Iron obviously and the micro nutrients it has. I do plan on doing a soil test this Winter but really only expect to have to add some Lime to the lawn to raise the pH which I am sure is low.
> 
> Other than that I only plan on spraying PGR when needed, Bifen monthly, Imidacloprid quarterly and Prodiamine in the Spring and Fall. I only spray for weeds when I have enough of them to justify spraying and plan on using a wetting agent monthly starting next year.


Mightyquinn sir, first, thank you for your service.

Can you please tell me what Urea and Potassium Nitrate you are using. I can find the Urea(46-0-0), but I am having trouble finding the Potassium Nitrate(13-0-46) with those numbers.

Thanks, I appreciate it.


----------



## Mightyquinn

You may find the Potassium Nitrate in 14-0-46 also it just depends on who makes it. I would look for it by name and not number.


----------



## cokenner

Called a local garden center that I thought would carry Urea. The lady there (nice lady, been there a long time) said you can't buy 46-0-0 because of bombs. I'm in Texas. I think she doesn't know what she's talking about. I'm probably on some list now… Lol.


----------



## Mightyquinn

Lol. Yeah, I think she is mixing it up with Ammonium Nitrate(34-0-0). Try finding a farm supply or AG supply as they should carry it.


----------



## Automate

Urea can be made into explosives also https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19575193/


----------



## Mightyquinn

Automate said:


> Urea can be made into explosives also https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19575193/


Yes, but it's not regulated as much.


----------



## Automate

I wonder why?
Urea Nitrate was used for the World Trade Center bombing in New York 
Ammonium Nitrate was used for the Oklahoma City Federal Building bombing


----------



## Redtwin

Do you have a Site One near you? They carry Urea 46-0-0 here. I would also think most significant farm supply stores would carry it. As far as setting off any red flags, I think you are safe as long as you are only buying for one acre.


----------



## cokenner

Redtwin said:


> Do you have a Site One near you? They carry Urea 46-0-0 here. I would also think most significant farm supply stores would carry it. As far as setting off any red flags, I think you are safe as long as you are only buying for one acre.


There's two branches in Ft. Worth, about 1.5hrs away. I guess I could stock up when I go see family that live in that area. I'm only working with 2500sqft. Went to another local place that had a Urea plus Ammonium Sulfate 33-0-0 (23% Urea/10% Ammoniacal Nitrogen) and regular Ammonium Sulfate 21-0-0, but no 46-0-0. I guess either would work too? Can I just assume all Urea/AS is soluble in water? I'm awaiting soil tests to see what I actually need to use, but still scouting.


----------



## Redtwin

I use Urea instead of AS but both are water soluble and mix pretty easily. I switched to Urea because pound per pound of nitrogen it is the cheapest option for me. It's a fun chemistry experiment with my kids learning about endothermic vs. exothermic reactions. Mixing AS or urea in water is endothermic and will get pretty cold. Mixing calcium chloride for the pool is exothermic and gets hot.

I have found that AS is more likely to burn the tips of the turf than Urea but it could just be that I have gotten better at applying since I've been working with Urea.


----------



## WCtotheB

Redtwin said:


> I use Urea instead of AS but both are water soluble and mix pretty easily. I switched to Urea because pound per pound of nitrogen it is the cheapest option for me. It's a fun chemistry experiment with my kids learning about endothermic vs. exothermic reactions. Mixing AS or urea in water is endothermic and will get pretty cold. Mixing calcium chloride for the pool is exothermic and gets hot.
> 
> I have found that AS is more likely to burn the tips of the turf than Urea but it could just be that I have gotten better at applying since I've been working with Urea.


This is awesome insight to share. I have been using water-soluble FAS and no matter how light of an app, without surfactant, with a surfactant, I couldn't get it to not burn the tips, the results essentially wore off so fast that the slight burn wasn't worth it. I look forward to experimenting further with it and implementing the UREA, but the bulk Urea is hard for me to find locally. I will keep looking.


----------



## Monocot Master

@WCtotheB Below is a reasonably priced (at todays fert prices anyway) Urea shipped to your door, if HD offers this product in your region. Sunshine Harvest also sells soluble Potassium Sulphate and Diammonium Phosphate. I have never used their products, but I will be trying them this growing season. I have ordered the urea and SOP, and received the urea today and should have the SOP soon.

By the way, they put the wrong photo in this product listing. It should be urea, not DAP.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sunshine-Harvest-40-lbs-Box-Urea-Fertilizer-UGF-40/316885117?g_store=&source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&&mtc=Shopping-B-F_D28O-G-D28O-028_002_FERTILIZERS-NA-NA-NA-SMART-NA-NA-SMART_SHP&cm_mmc=Shopping-B-F_D28O-G-D28O-028_002_FERTILIZERS-NA-NA-NA-SMART-NA-NA-SMART_SHP-71700000064087486-58700005695909825-92700051963344737&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0tuyqKq19QIVKwaICR16KQrtEAYYBSABEgJGvfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


----------



## Mightyquinn

Monocot Master said:


> @WCtotheB Below is a reasonably priced (at todays fert prices anyway) Urea shipped to your door, if HD offers this product in your region. Sunshine Harvest also sells soluble Potassium Sulphate and Diammonium Phosphate. I have never used their products, but I will be trying them this growing season. I have ordered the urea and SOP, and received the urea today and should have the SOP soon.
> 
> By the way, they put the wrong photo in this product listing. It should be urea, not DAP.
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sunshine-Harvest-40-lbs-Box-Urea-Fertilizer-UGF-40/316885117?g_store=&source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&&mtc=Shopping-B-F_D28O-G-D28O-028_002_FERTILIZERS-NA-NA-NA-SMART-NA-NA-SMART_SHP&cm_mmc=Shopping-B-F_D28O-G-D28O-028_002_FERTILIZERS-NA-NA-NA-SMART-NA-NA-SMART_SHP-71700000064087486-58700005695909825-92700051963344737&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0tuyqKq19QIVKwaICR16KQrtEAYYBSABEgJGvfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


That's a good find on Home Depot's website :thumbup: It's not the cheapest but I think a fair price for something shipped to your door. Do you know if the SOP is water soluble or not?


----------



## Monocot Master

It is. I contacted the company directly before buying and asked that very question plus confirmation of the NPK analysis in both products. I figure if either of them are not as advertised, I would just return to my local HD.

The SOP:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sunshine-Harvest-40-lbs-Box-SOP-Fertilier-GSOP-40/316885116?MERCH=REC-_-pip_alternatives-_-316885117-_-316885116-_-N&


----------



## cokenner

WCtotheB said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I use Urea instead of AS but both are water soluble and mix pretty easily. I switched to Urea because pound per pound of nitrogen it is the cheapest option for me. It's a fun chemistry experiment with my kids learning about endothermic vs. exothermic reactions. Mixing AS or urea in water is endothermic and will get pretty cold. Mixing calcium chloride for the pool is exothermic and gets hot.
> 
> I have found that AS is more likely to burn the tips of the turf than Urea but it could just be that I have gotten better at applying since I've been working with Urea.
> 
> 
> 
> This is awesome insight to share. I have been using water-soluble FAS and no matter how light of an app, without surfactant, with a surfactant, I couldn't get it to not burn the tips, the results essentially wore off so fast that the slight burn wasn't worth it. I look forward to experimenting further with it and implementing the UREA, but the bulk Urea is hard for me to find locally. I will keep looking.
Click to expand...

Nice info, ty. Is FAS Ammonium Sulfate 21-0-0?


----------



## Mightyquinn

FAS is Ferrous Ammonium Sulfate, it's basically Ferrous Sulfate(Iron) and Ammonium Sulfate mixed together and then sprayed on the grass to give it a quick and/or darker appearance. It's mainly used for aesthetics and not figured into an actual fertilizer application.

Ammonium Sulfate is usually abbreviated as AMS or AS.

Here is some good weekend reading if you want

Ferrous Ammonium Sulfate


----------



## cokenner

Mightyquinn said:


> FAS is Ferrous Ammonium Sulfate, it's basically Ferrous Sulfate(Iron) and Ammonium Sulfate mixed together and then sprayed on the grass to give it a quick and/or darker appearance. It's mainly used for aesthetics and not figured into an actual fertilizer application.
> 
> Ammonium Sulfate is usually abbreviated as AMS or AS.
> 
> Here is some good weekend reading if you want
> 
> Ferrous Ammonium Sulfate


Sweet, thank you!

Another thought/question I have. It seems most of the folks in this thread are working with Bermuda. I have KBG in my front yard and Celebration Bermuda in my backyard. I've made some obvious adjustments for my KBG in the hotter months of the summer, but was curious what I might be weary of from your original schedule when working with KBG. I know it's the hardiest of cool season grasses, but not the superman grass that Bermuda is.

Current schedule
Feb-May .25#N/M from Urea twice a month.
June-Aug .5#N/M from Milorganite with two applications about 8 weeks apart
Sept-Nov .5#N/M from Urea twice a month. Fall N Blitz. May bleed into Dec/Jan with tapered applications depending on weather, the temps this year have been crazy (North Texas.)

I plan to mix either MainEvent or Feature in every other application.

I appreciate all of the quick responses and info. Very appreciative!


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## bhutchinson87

cokenner said:


> There's two branches in Ft. Worth, about 1.5hrs away. I guess I could stock up when I go see family that live in that area. I'm only working with 2500sqft. Went to another local place that had a Urea plus Ammonium Sulfate 33-0-0 (23% Urea/10% Ammoniacal Nitrogen) and regular Ammonium Sulfate 21-0-0, but no 46-0-0. I guess either would work too? Can I just assume all Urea/AS is soluble in water? I'm awaiting soil tests to see what I actually need to use, but still scouting.


Given that you live in the North Texas area, and everyone around here has alkaline soil, I would opt for Ammonium Sulfate. Generally, all AS is soluble but some manufacturers do put a coating on it for spreader applications. For example the APF green bag (solu-green) is made to be mixed and sprayed, but the blue bag (N-rich) is made for a spreader. I use the blue bag and it still dissolves just fine with a little agitation, however it leaves a little gunk behind from their coating.


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## cokenner

bhutchinson87 said:


> cokenner said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's two branches in Ft. Worth, about 1.5hrs away. I guess I could stock up when I go see family that live in that area. I'm only working with 2500sqft. Went to another local place that had a Urea plus Ammonium Sulfate 33-0-0 (23% Urea/10% Ammoniacal Nitrogen) and regular Ammonium Sulfate 21-0-0, but no 46-0-0. I guess either would work too? Can I just assume all Urea/AS is soluble in water? I'm awaiting soil tests to see what I actually need to use, but still scouting.
> 
> 
> 
> Given that you live in the North Texas area, and everyone around here has alkaline soil, I would opt for Ammonium Sulfate. Generally, all AS is soluble but some manufacturers do put a coating on it for spreader applications. For example the APF green bag (solu-green) is made to be mixed and sprayed, but the blue bag (N-rich) is made for a spreader. I use the blue bag and it still dissolves just fine with a little agitation, however it leaves a little gunk behind from their coating.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your input! I'm still awaiting my soil tests to be certain. I found a very informative series on nitrogen from The Grass Factor on YouTube while researching. Seems AS is a lot more efficient than UREA and is more stable at colder temps. So Spring/Fall apps like my above schedule may work out nicely with AS and I should be able to apply less #N/M. Also, with my clay soil, if my PH is good, it would take a boat load of AS to lower the PH any further. There are some other benefits he pointed out which were a bit over my head in processing how it applies to the grass. https://bit.ly/3scKqUQ Here's the video about Ammonium Sulfate, but he has other videos on Urea and its many forms.


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## p1muserfan

I'd like to spoon feed weekly some sparse lawns I'm working on, not really enough thick grass yet to apply granular. Can I mix AMS (21-0-0), MAP (12-61-0) and Potassium nitrate (12-0-46)in my Ortho hose end sprayer and spray at the 1 oz. rate? Was thinking 1lb of AMS, 4 oz. of MAP and 4oz of KN03 for an approximate total of .27-.15-.12.


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## Mightyquinn

p1muserfan said:


> I'd like to spoon feed weekly some sparse lawns I'm working on, not really enough thick grass yet to apply granular. Can I mix AMS (21-0-0), MAP (12-61-0) and Potassium nitrate (12-0-46)in my Ortho hose end sprayer and spray at the 1 oz. rate? Was thinking 1lb of AMS, 4 oz. of MAP and 4oz of KN03 for an approximate total of .27-.15-.12.


I would NOT recommend it as you won't ever get consistent results from it. I doubt you would hurt anything since you are putting it down with a lot of water. I would melt that down in solution before putting it in the Ortho.


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## p1muserfan

Mightyquinn said:


> I would NOT recommend it as you won't ever get consistent results from it. I doubt you would hurt anything since you are putting it down with a lot of water. I would melt that down in solution before putting it in the Ortho.


Yes, I am going to dissolve everything in hot water before adding it to my Ortho. My test plot will be my step daughter's backyard.


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## Memphis2830

Monocot Master said:


> It is. I contacted the company directly before buying and asked that very question plus confirmation of the NPK analysis in both products. I figure if either of them are not as advertised, I would just return to my local HD.
> 
> The SOP:
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sunshine-Harvest-40-lbs-Box-SOP-Fertilier-GSOP-40/316885116?MERCH=REC-_-pip_alternatives-_-316885117-_-316885116-_-N&


@Monocot Master did you end up having success with this SOP? I've had a very difficult time getting it to dissolve. I've tried very hot water, letting it sit overnight in the tank, aggressive agitation, etc. I'll usually get it to dissolve but it's been a battle!


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## Katodude

I bought some of this SOP also and it's incredibly hard to dissolve. I get most of it done eventually but its a slog. I will use what I have but not buying any more of it. I need to find some potassium nitrate.


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## dofdk3

Either I don't know how to use the Google machine or I can't find FEature 6-0-0 anywhere &#129335;&#127996;‍♂


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## Humbert810

dofdk3 said:


> Either I don't know how to use the Google machine or I can't find FEature 6-0-0 anywhere 🤷🏼‍♂️


I also had the same issue when I was trying to find it :lol: I gave up and went with AS 46-0-0


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## dofdk3

Humbert810 said:


> dofdk3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Either I don't know how to use the Google machine or I can't find FEature 6-0-0 anywhere 🤷🏼‍♂️
> 
> 
> 
> I also had the same issue when I was trying to find it :lol: I gave up and went with AS 46-0-0
Click to expand...

Ha! Probably the same here.

Either way, this all makes my head spin. No wonder Sunday and Simple Lawn Solutions do so well. It's easy lol


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## Humbert810

dofdk3 said:


> Humbert810 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dofdk3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Either I don't know how to use the Google machine or I can't find FEature 6-0-0 anywhere 🤷🏼‍♂️
> 
> 
> 
> I also had the same issue when I was trying to find it :lol: I gave up and went with AS 46-0-0
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ha! Probably the same here.
> 
> Either way, this all makes my head spin. No wonder Sunday and Simple Lawn Solutions do so well. It's easy lol
Click to expand...

Effective, maybe not. Easy, surely!


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## Redtwin

dofdk3 said:


> Either I don't know how to use the Google machine or I can't find FEature 6-0-0 anywhere 🤷🏼‍♂️


The Lesco 12-0-0 from SiteOne has 6% Iron and is easier to get your hands on than FEature. I've had good results with it.


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## dofdk3

Redtwin said:


> dofdk3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Either I don't know how to use the Google machine or I can't find FEature 6-0-0 anywhere 🤷🏼‍♂️
> 
> 
> 
> The Lesco 12-0-0 from SiteOne has 6% Iron and is easier to get your hands on than FEature. I've had good results with it.
Click to expand...

Coming in clutch. 💪🏻 I live 15 minutes from a Site One. Thank You!


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## dofdk3

Lesco 46-0-0 and Lesco 12-0-0. One stop shop. Easy math again. My faith is restored to go all liquid next year.


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## Mightyquinn

Just FYI here are some links to FEature/Main Event

Feature This is sold from a member here on TLF

Main Event Dry Iron If you spend $100 you get free shipping

As for the SOP from Home Depot it will NOT dissolve in water, I ended up returning mine after finding that out personally.


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## Bombers

Memphis2830 said:


> Monocot Master said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is. I contacted the company directly before buying and asked that very question plus confirmation of the NPK analysis in both products. I figure if either of them are not as advertised, I would just return to my local HD.
> 
> The SOP:
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sunshine-Harvest-40-lbs-Box-SOP-Fertilier-GSOP-40/316885116?MERCH=REC-_-pip_alternatives-_-316885117-_-316885116-_-N&
> 
> 
> 
> @Monocot Master did you end up having success with this SOP? I've had a very difficult time getting it to dissolve. I've tried very hot water, letting it sit overnight in the tank, aggressive agitation, etc. I'll usually get it to dissolve but it's been a battle!
Click to expand...




Katodude said:


> I bought some of this SOP also and it's incredibly hard to dissolve. I get most of it done eventually but its a slog. I will use what I have but not buying any more of it. I need to find some potassium nitrate.


I have no issues with it with hot water. It's not as fast as urea, but the key is you have to have more volume of water for it to dissolve reasonably. I usually do 28 oz in 3 gal of water with a mixing paddle on the drill's highest speed. If you're using several pounds, I would split it into several buckets instead of doing it in one go or trying to mix it in the tank itself.


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## Monocot Master

@Memphis2830 I have only used it once this year and yes, very hard to dissolve. I am past due for a K app so will use it again soon I think, but I will not be buying it again.

My original plan was to spoon feed NPK this year. But turf response was so slow in the spring, I went to granular for my macros. My turf looks great. Will likely stick with that program. Micros, PGR and insect, weed and fungal controls will spray from my backpack though.


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## Redtwin

Monocot Master said:


> @Memphis2830 I have only used it once this year and yes, very hard to dissolve. I am past due for a K app so will use it again soon I think, but I will not be buying it again.
> 
> My original plan was to spoon feed NPK this year. But turf response was so slow in the spring, I went to granular for my macros. My turf looks great. Will likely stick with that program. Micros, PGR and insect, weed and fungal controls will spray from my backpack though.


This is what I am currently doing and will probably stick to that after hearing everyone have trouble dissolving the SOP. I was just about to order some for the end of the season and glad to hear all your feedback before getting any.


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## Memphis2830

Bombers said:


> Memphis2830 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monocot Master said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is. I contacted the company directly before buying and asked that very question plus confirmation of the NPK analysis in both products. I figure if either of them are not as advertised, I would just return to my local HD.
> 
> The SOP:
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sunshine-Harvest-40-lbs-Box-SOP-Fertilier-GSOP-40/316885116?MERCH=REC-_-pip_alternatives-_-316885117-_-316885116-_-N&
> 
> 
> 
> @Monocot Master did you end up having success with this SOP? I've had a very difficult time getting it to dissolve. I've tried very hot water, letting it sit overnight in the tank, aggressive agitation, etc. I'll usually get it to dissolve but it's been a battle!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katodude said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bought some of this SOP also and it's incredibly hard to dissolve. I get most of it done eventually but its a slog. I will use what I have but not buying any more of it. I need to find some potassium nitrate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have no issues with it with hot water. It's not as fast as urea, but the key is you have to have more volume of water for it to dissolve reasonably. I usually do 28 oz in 3 gal of water with a mixing paddle on the drill's highest speed. If you're using several pounds, I would split it into several buckets instead of doing it in one go or trying to mix it in the tank itself.
Click to expand...

I'll try more water then while mixing then, that's a great idea.


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## Memphis2830

Monocot Master said:


> @Memphis2830 I have only used it once this year and yes, very hard to dissolve. I am past due for a K app so will use it again soon I think, but I will not be buying it again.
> 
> My original plan was to spoon feed NPK this year. But turf response was so slow in the spring, I went to granular for my macros. My turf looks great. Will likely stick with that program. Micros, PGR and insect, weed and fungal controls will spray from my backpack though.


Ive been putting down 15/15/15 at a low amount per1k each month and then adding urea to my liquid plan. I don't really need the SOP this year but was hoping to go all liquid next year if prices remain so high on granular.


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