# Update w/ pix: Has anyone used Q4 Plus herbicide on Bermuda lawn?



## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Does anyone have any experience using Q4 Plus brand of herbicide on Bermuda grass?

I bought some and it looks like it would work well on all of the different weeds I have popping up in my back yard.

I have never used it before, and I was curious if anyone else has?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts anyone has on the topic! :?


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Link to product:

https://www.pbigordonturf.com/products/herbicides/selective-herbicides/q4-plus-yellow-nutsedge-crabgrass/


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

I forgot to add I have a nutsedge invasion. Last year I had a bad crabgrass infestation, so I put down dithiopyr on March 18th.

Trying to kill any emerging crabgrass and the emerged nutsedge, along with numerous broadleaf weeds of assorted varieties....

Thanks again - if no one has tried it I will give it a whirl, but just curious if others have used it yet...!


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Two other questions:

Use rate per application at low end is 1.8 ounces per 1000 square feet.

I have a quart container, 32 ounces. My math gets me to mixing this with 17.78 gallons of water for spraying from a tow behind sprayer.

Am I right on the math?

And my last question: does it matter if I add in more water to the mix (beyond 18 gallons) to make sure I have enough to cover 11,000 square feet of lawn with blanket spray (at properly calibrated application rate)?

I am thinking of putting in 20 gallons total, because of pump cavitation as the tank level gets nearer to empty....

Thanks again for the benefit of your thoughts on the topic!


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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

I have used it. Was actually the first herbicide I ever bought. It will crush some crabgrass. It does have a temperature restriction- I learned this the hard way.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

cnet24 said:


> I have used it. Was actually the first herbicide I ever bought. It will crush some crabgrass. It does have a temperature restriction- I learned this the hard way.


Thanks for that good feedback, cnet24!

I mixed the Q4 Plus with some Alligare non-ionic surfactant, and used blue marker dye to blanket spray my entire back yard. It sprayed just fine, no issues, and it dried quickly.

PBI Gordon advertises that this works quickly, between 7 to 14 days, which is fairly fast results, and should put my front and back yard back in sequence timing wise for mowing purposes.

I will update this topic once I see the results of this all-in-one product.


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## Christech11 (Mar 26, 2019)

Have used Q4 for 2 seasons on Bermuda. Early in the season it works great when temps are below 85*. It takes a little bit of time to knock out crabgrass but most of my applications were spot, not blanket apps. In my opinion, I would not use it to tackle sedge even at the low rate because you'll more than likely experience some burn on your lawn.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

FlowRider said:


> Two other questions:
> 
> Use rate per application at low end is 1.8 ounces per 1000 square feet.
> 
> ...


Maybe my math is wrong but for 11,000 sq ft you would use just over 20oz in at least 11 gallons of water (if doing one gallon per 1000). Did you use the whole 32oz on the back?


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

I mixed up a total of twenty gallons of mixture, and used the entire 32 ounce bottle.

However, I ended up spraying just 14 gallons to cover the area I needed to spray. I still have six gallons still left in the tank.

I did spray more than a straight one gallon per 1000 square feet because I went back over the entire area again spot spraying on a lot of sedge, waxy broadleaf weeds and grassy weeds. The herbicide did slide off some on these types of weeds so I may have some yellowing in those areas, which I can live with since it is in the back yard....

Blanket spraying has somewhat stunted the growth of the Bermuda in the front yard, which is okay with me because I have not mowed it yet (since I scalped it to 1.25")...I am letting the herbicides stay on the weeds intact to make sure I kill all I can.

I am coming up on my ninth day on my front yard and the weeds out there are hurting for certain. Some are completely dead, brown and dried out (sedge in particular).

The grass did not turn yellow, it just slowed its growth vertically (to my eyes, anyway) but it is sending out runners everywhere.

It looks very green and lush, but with dying weeds all over....

I am going to carefully and closely spot spray some grassy weeds out front that the Roundup is not formulated to affect.

Then I may spray a small strip at the end of our cul-de-sac that the HOA lawn mower operators just mulch mow, to get rid of that seed generating strip.

Any left over Q4 I will just collect in an oil pan container when draining the tank, and put in a hand pump sprayer to re-spray any tough survivors....

I only saw one crabgrass plant, and it was a big one that I somehow overlooked. I sprayed that seed spreader down today, so I will know how this works on crabgrass soon.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

FlowRider said:


> I mixed up a total of twenty gallons of mixture, and used the entire 32 ounce bottle.
> 
> However, I ended up spraying just 14 gallons to cover the area I needed to spray. I still have six gallons still left in the tank.
> 
> ...


Makes sense. Thanks.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Tank volume remaining, the first tick mark is for four gallons, level is at six gallons left over....


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Here is the spray rig setup, cooling off from the morning spraying session:


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Here is a shot of a section of the back yard with the weeds that emerged post scalping:



These are all Q4 sprayed now.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

I should note that I replaced the hand spray wand on the North Star tow-behind sprayer. It worked okay but I did not like the spray pattern or volume it sprayed. The droplets were very coarse and it soaked weeds more than sprayed them to wet, which a dedicated fan spray tip fixed.

I cut it off and installed a Solo wand in its place:



I sprayed with this hand wand hanging off the left hand side of the mower, about 12 inches off the lawn. I can just set the throttle, start spraying and drive forward while steering with one hand using a John Deere steering wheel knob for better control & grip.

This way I get a very consistent spray pattern down, and can just spray a perimeter and then paint myself into the center of the lawn as I spray on.

My knee surgeon told me I may need a knee replacement in ten to 15 years.

One of my life goals is to go to my grave with my original knees on me.

This spray setup aids me in that life goal, and it makes the job fun instead of being a chore. It is still a job, and I still cook and sweat in the heat and humidity, but my knees don't ache...!


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

My land used to be a horse and cattle ranch pasture, so I have weeds pop up I have never seen before....

Maybe I should just get some goats, or a donkey pair, or some rabbits.

My bride would love those ideas...!


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Mac Daddy crabgrass (it could be dallis grass or Johnson grass too; I am not a weed ID expert; I just want to "kill 'em all!") that grew out of nowhere to this size (see, everything in Texas really is big). This grew post scalping, and even though I spread dithiopyr on March 18.

So today I hosed this bastage down.

Gotta keep an eye on it, because it looks like it wants to be a baby maker.

It may meet the Weed Hound if the Q4 cannot take it down...but I want to see if I can give it a Q4 beatdown first...!


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

I thought I should explain what I did to my lawn after trying to kill off all the nutsedge and crabgrass (and a cornucopia of other weeds) last season. I used Roundup - 18% glyphosate and Quinclorac to spot treat with hand pump sprayer while riding the mower. Ended up with lots of dead spots but it killed off the visible weeds.

I did not put down pre-emergent in fall or winter. Never knew I was supposed to, quite honestly....

I did fertilize with Scott's Turf Builder in the fall, then the yard went almost dormant. I had read this was crucial, so the lawn could store the nitrogen as starch and sugar over the winter months.

Then I researched about scalping, and as my grass started greening up I began scalping in phases, dropping down from about 4.5 inches to 1.25 inches in four steps, to minimize wear and tear on the lawn tractor.

Then in March I spread dithiopyr granules and more Scott's Turf Builder
Lawn Food out back, and Scott's Green Max out front. The Bermuda greener right up, and the weeds did the same....

So now I have sprayed both front and back. I am being very conservative out front, given the curb appeal and visibility.

So far, my science experiments seem to be working out okay. :|


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

FlowRider said:


> Mac Daddy crabgrass (it could be dallis grass)


It is dallisgrass. Paint the leaves with a Roundup/NIS mix. The weedhound won't even get close to eradicating it.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Christech11 said:


> Have used Q4 for 2 seasons on Bermuda. Early in the season it works great when temps are below 85*. It takes a little bit of time to knock out crabgrass but most of my applications were spot, not blanket apps. In my opinion, I would not use it to tackle sedge even at the low rate because you'll more than likely experience some burn on your lawn.


Thanks Christech11, I appreciate your reply!

I thought I would try the Q4 Plus because it said it would work faster than the Roundup for Lawns. I also thought it would help kill other grassy weeds, and crabgrass. I am not seeing much crabgrass (yet, anyway).

But I wanted to kill nutsedge and the other grassy weeds plus knock out as many broadleaf weeds as possible.

The Q4 Plus costs about the same as two quarts of Roundup for Lawns, and so I figured I might try it out so I can get on a mowing schedule to cut the whole yard at one time ASAP.

Plus it is getting hotter and soon it will be too hot even in the mornings to put this down, so I figured now, or much later....

Very interested in seeing how well it performs.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Makes sense. Thanks.
[/quote]

Thanks for your reply and answer on the math, TN Hawkeye!

I may end up with having more left over than I want, but i hope I can use it up in both the front and back spot spraying the grassy weeds.

Not sure how long this will stay effective once I put it into a smaller tank, but I suppose I am about to find out...! :lol:


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Spammage said:


> FlowRider said:
> 
> 
> > Mac Daddy crabgrass (it could be dallis grass)
> ...


Thanks, Spammage!

Yeah, I saw the purple center and my first instinct was it was Dallis grass.

I dug it out with my Weed Hound because I kept dwelling on it so I decided to just go get it manually.

It was really interesting - the roots were actually growing in a circle, and only about an inch deep. It was in my side yard, where I have some St. Augustine growing in a shady area behind the fence there, crowding out the Bermuda.

Another reason I fired my lawn spray and pray company. I asked them to spray the St. Aug. to get rid of it before it spread, and the guy looked at me like I was crazy. I realize now he either had nothing on his truck to do that, or did not know how to. Now it has taken over half my side yard on that side of the house. $100 a visit to spray and have to beg them to do the job right. So glad I fired that company. I have the yard looking better than those goofballs ever did.

Not a hill I want to try and climb right now to try and kill the St. Aug. I may go after it; but I am leaning toward putting a compost bin in that area.... Next year.

The dallis grass stood out, even in the area of the St. Aug. I don't see a lot of it anymore. Roundup glyphosate works when nothing else does....

I fried a lot of that last year with glyphosate and quinclorac. Cut the yard to prevent seed heads from the crab and dallis grasses.

This one laid low and even survived the scalp. It is dead now, in the trash bin.

The war against weeds is never easy to win; mostly it just is a series of battles to keep things from invading and then occupying your land.

I did learn I may not be watering properly by looking at those roots though.

Learn something new every day...!


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@FlowRider it will likely come back. If you didn't get every single piece of the roots, then it will regrow just like bermuda or zoysia will. It's also a perennial, so unlike crabgrass, winter won't hurt it. It usually takes multiple apps of glyphosate, and there are some glyphosate resistant plants too.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

@Spammage Yeah, I started researching it. I did not dig down deep with a shovel, nor did I backfill with other dirt.

If I had done that last summer, my yard would have looked like a war zone with mini-foxholes everywhere.

Instead, it had blue polka dots that turned into dead grass circles everywhere. 

I'm thinking a propane weed torch might work.

Flamethrower beats foxholes and defoliants! :twisted:

I am going to keep an eye out...dang weeds.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Update on results after ~55 hours since spraying via pictures:

Wide shot showing slumping weeds:



Shot of nutsedge dying already - note the Bermuda turf grass has been slightly impacted:



Dandelions destroyed:





Mixed salad bar of weeds, not sure what all these are, but not going to have to worry much more about that, soon:



Not sure what this weed is, maybe wild carrot, but I have a lot of it showing up this year, and it laughed at the Roundup I sprayed on it in my front yard, so now I have a little something for it still in my tank:



Here is some wood sorrel I think, neighbors yard is absolutely covered up with this stuff, and I think I have a cure for the new invaders:



Overall, I am quite pleased with how this herbicide mixture worked. It did redden and yellow the Bermuda more than the Roundup did, but I am getting much faster results, so I can see why professional applicators may use Q4 Plus to make a positive first impression for new customers.

I am happy with it so far. I am going to turn on my sprinklers to water the sulfentrazone into the root zone to try and kill off as many of the nutlets/tubers underground that I can.

I think that will help the turf recover some too.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

I should also note that I have not mowed the back yard since I scalped it down to 1.25" on April 2nd.

I had to mow the front yard, however.

Dang HOA sent me a letter, politely asking me to "mow, weed and edge."

So I did all three. I may have extended my "science experiment" just a little too far....

Dang HOA, dang weeds. It's all their fault.

At least my front yard is looking much better now....

Many thanks to The Lawn Forum and its members. I have learned a lot from this community, and I am grateful for the replies and information I have received from this website.

All the best...!


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