# Help! I smoked my Lawn!



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

So lawn was HUMMING. Started PGR this summer. Been great. This weekend I mowed in the am and put the correct amounts per square ft down bifen, TNEX, 46-0-0, Celsius, clearys 3336f. We had a ton of rain this week and forgot to water this stuff in. And now lawn is NUKED!

What can I do (if anything) what is length of refinery and are there any mixing issues with Celsius and 46-0-0? @Ware @Redtwin

Here are pics before I smoked it:




Here are after:


----------



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

Refinery = recovery


----------



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

I've had minor bronzing after PGR. But nothing like this before. Never had urea burn but usually water in morning after late application evening prior. This time I sprayed midday Saturday and never watered in …


----------



## JayGo (Jun 13, 2019)

Difficult to try to determine what caused this without at least knowing the rates you applied at. I've learned that PGR can randomly bronze even when you're turf is already u der regulation.


----------



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

I'm confident this isn't bronzing - I use medication syringes (great tip @Ware )to ensure I am correctly measuring for my lawn size. And haven't had any real issue before. Especially not this. I don't have my notes with me for rates applied. But assume all calculations are correct. Thanks @JayGo !.


----------



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

Back yard ~1650 sq ft
Clearys336F 3oz 
Bifen 1.0 oz
Propiconazole .85 oz 
6 ml of TNEX 
4 grams of Celsius
1.5lb 46-0-0

Front yard ~2750 sq ft
Clearys336F 4oz 
Bifen 1.5 oz 
Propiconazole 1.8 oz 
10 ml of TNEX 
6.1 grams of Celsius
3 lb 46-0-0


----------



## gkaneko (Dec 11, 2018)

That's not nuked. I've done way worse.

this is only coming from my experience. I try not to apply anything that might damage my lawn with a PRG application. I find that if any damage occurs, the grass cannot grow out of it and you get bronzing that lasts a long time.

Celsius has been finicky for me. so I do it seperate from PGR.


----------



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

gkaneko said:


> That's not nuked. I've done way worse.
> 
> this is only coming from my experience. I try not to apply anything that might damage my lawn with a PRG application. I find that if any damage occurs, the grass cannot grow out of it and you get bronzing that lasts a long time.
> 
> Celsius has been finicky for me. so I do it seperate from PGR.


Great insight. This is the first Celsius + PGR + urea combo I've ever done. And now last!

Amy remedy tips?


----------



## Twodollarblue (May 26, 2020)

glinget said:


> Back yard ~1650 sq ft
> Clearys336F 3oz
> Bifen 1.0 oz
> Propiconazole .85 oz
> ...


I would say your apps of .4-.5lbs of N/1000 is a bit heavy especially if applied in mid day and then not watered in. I've had mine burn the tips with way less nitrogen.


----------



## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

This isn't nuked. You burned it up with all the applications and no water. It's fertilizer burn more than likely. The other stuff wouldn't do it, the PGR could bronze it, but that looks like your fertilizer did it.

Now you've got an issue with the PGR and prop also causing a pgr effect. It'll be around until you get growth started back. Water it well, and it'll be fine with some time.


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

Thinking and presenting our inputs in 'Amount of product per 1000' is best practice, leaving the yard size out of the equation. This should also line up with the label, most of the time. To that end here's what you put down on your Front Yard:
TNex @ 0.12 floz/1000 (which is below label rate)
Celsius @ 2.21g/1000 (in between low & medium rate?)
Urea @ 0.5#.1000 (a bit high if you left it on the turf blades for too long, esp in full sun).

The turf is not smoked but you have to be aware that mixing Nitrogen into your herbicide applications can make them hotter, speeding up their uptake. Together with sitting on there too long and it's not a good situation for the plant.

I'm betting this is most likely just tip burn. Your solution is to hydrate the lawn and let it heal itself. That's the beauty of warm season turf!


----------



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

corneliani said:


> Thinking and presenting our inputs in 'Amount of product per 1000' is best practice, leaving the yard size out of the equation. This should also line up with the label, most of the time. To that end here's what you put down on your Front Yard:
> TNex @ 0.12 floz/1000 (which is below label rate)
> Celsius @ 2.21g/1000 (in between low & medium rate?)
> Urea @ 0.5#.1000 (a bit high if you left it on the turf blades for too long, esp in full sun).
> ...


Thanks! Will water in heavy and see how things look in a few days


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

glinget said:


> corneliani said:
> 
> 
> > Thinking and presenting our inputs in 'Amount of product per 1000' is best practice, leaving the yard size out of the equation. This should also line up with the label, most of the time. To that end here's what you put down on your Front Yard:
> ...


If you don't mind me asking, what individual rates were you shooting for? And what's your thinking with applying those specific products on your lawn? Why Cleary's? Why Prop? Why bifen? I see your history with DS and the mycelium/spiders.. are you now applying those products regularly as a preventative action?


----------



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

corneliani said:


> glinget said:
> 
> 
> > corneliani said:
> ...


Rereading this I accidentally that I pushed in Prop

I didn't include that. My mistake

I have added bifen for the last two sprays for spiders

Clearys due to the heavy rains / fungicide control


----------



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

corneliani said:


> Thinking and presenting our inputs in 'Amount of product per 1000' is best practice, leaving the yard size out of the equation. This should also line up with the label, most of the time. To that end here's what you put down on your Front Yard:
> TNex @ 0.12 floz/1000 (which is below label rate)
> Celsius @ 2.21g/1000 (in between low & medium rate?)
> Urea @ 0.5#.1000 (a bit high if you left it on the turf blades for too long, esp in full sun).
> ...


TNEX label for .500" HOV and lower I think I am on the money

Celsius should be medium rate

Urea was based on guidance from UGA soil report

I don't have exact sqft in my phone with me I just tried my guess from my original calcs but those sqft are close


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Like others have said, you dinged it pretty good but I've seen (and done) way worse. I agree with the others that it more than likely was the Urea and lack of watering in. The bad part is that with the T-Nex on top of the Propiconazole it will be slower to grow out but should be just fine in a couple of weeks. My neighbor just did way worse and it grew out in a week but he only applied Dismiss and no PGR or fungicides. Were you applying preventative fungicides or were you seeing issues? Although most products have a watering-in window, I like to keep the water-in products separate from the stay-on-the-leaf products. Just chalk it up as a learning opportunity. I doubt you did any long-term damage.

EDIT: With no Propiconazole you should be fine within a few mows. I'm not sure about Geo but you can push Empire through PGR with heavy Nitrogen so with the heavy urea rate you put down your recovery shouldn't take too long.


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

glinget said:


> corneliani said:
> 
> 
> > glinget said:
> ...


No worries.

I'm going to push here and I don't mean to put you on the spot... but what fungus exactly? For my TTTF, for ex, this is prime GLS season (and T-Methyl is Exactly the fungicide for that!). Not sure what fungus you'd be going after at this point in the season on your lawn.
I'm just trying to challenge you to know why you're applying each product. We can get trigger happy with all of these products at our disposal.  
I hope i'm not coming off harsh. My apologies if so.


----------



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

Redtwin said:


> Like others have said, you dinged it pretty good but I've seen (and done) way worse. I agree with the others that it more than likely was the Urea and lack of watering in. The bad part is that with the T-Nex on top of the Propiconazole it will be slower to grow out but should be just fine in a couple of weeks. My neighbor just did way worse and it grew out in a week but he only applied Dismiss and no PGR or fungicides. Were you applying preventative fungicides or were you seeing issues? Although most products have a watering-in window, I like to keep the water-in products separate from the stay-on-the-leaf products. Just chalk it up as a learning opportunity. I doubt you did any long-term damage.
> 
> EDIT: With no Propiconazole you should be fine within a few mows. I'm not sure about Geo but you can push Empire through PGR with heavy Nitrogen so with the heavy urea rate you put down your recovery shouldn't take too long.


Helpful thanks!!!


----------



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

corneliani said:


> glinget said:
> 
> 
> > corneliani said:
> ...


Honestly I have no idea! I was just going off some of my posts and feedback I got last year after some heavy mid summer rains to stay ahead of some fungus issues from having a fairly flat / hard to drain yard.

I never got a straight answer on how / best method for preventive fungicides. But I used this method similar time last year and never had any real FRing issues so I assumed try again….

Thanks for asking - have very little idea of what I'm doing but it has been working due mostly to trial and error


----------



## gkaneko (Dec 11, 2018)

it'll be fine, it just has to grow out past this damage. I recently applied too much PGR and the grass was heavily used and damaged. It took 2 months to recover from that. It'll come back


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

glinget said:


> Honestly I have no idea! I was just going off some of my posts and feedback I got last year after some heavy mid summer rains to stay ahead of some fungus issues from having a fairly flat / hard to drain yard.
> 
> I never got a straight answer on how / best method for preventive fungicides. But I used this method similar time last year and never had any real FRing issues so I assumed try again….
> 
> Thanks for asking - have very little idea of what I'm doing but it has been working due mostly to trial and error


Sometimes it's hard to get complete answers, even on here, bc there are so many factors at play. And trial & error is the best way to learn what works for your exact situation anyhow. With your Zeon turf you have to remember that Less is More though. You have one of those lazy-man grasses that require little more than grooming & hydration, where too many inputs can actually invite problems & disease. Here's what NGTurf, growers of Zeon & a trusted source, claims: https://ngturf.com/zeon-zoysia/
- disease resistant (with proper watering & fertility management)
- low inputs: 0.5 to 1#N per Year
- 1" water/week
(I know there are other resources out there that have other opinions on how to maintain Zeon.. and some of these sources seem to lump Zeon with the other Zoysia's and recommend 2-3#N/yr.. but I think most on here will agree that Zeon is pretty hands off. Again, if you throw too many things at it you'll actually create more problems.)

For your insecticides be aware that Bifen and the other synthetic pyrethroids are CONTACT insecticides with little to no preventative action. They only affect whatever comes into contact with it, and it only has a short residual. Only apply if you suspect (and ideally verify) that you have lawn pests that need addressing. If so, apply with a good amount of carrier to enter the thatch layer of the turf but do not water it in as the insecticide binds up in soil and becomes ineffective. Use Acelepryn or Imidacloprid early in the season for soil applications where you need to control grubs, etc., or want residual action.

Regarding post-emergent weed control, opt to spot spray vs blanket apps. I'm not even sure you have any weeds to spray, from the looks of your turf! Be selective in how you use your 2 blanket apps/year allotment of Celsius.

For nitrogen, I would personally go with 0.15# to 0.25#N/1000, max. If you like to spray your nutrients, as it seems you do, you can almost use your N as a kicker for your other products, at that low rate. Low & slow! Keeps you DS under control, your thatch manageable... just an all around win. You can come out of the gate in April with a higher rate, to start the season, but settle into a maintenance rate thereafter.

As for your fungicide plan, the diseases you'll need to stay abreast of are Zoysia/Large Patch (typically during the spring/fall transition periods and generally dealt with an Azoxy/Propi combo twice in the fall and again in the spring) and Dollar Spot (The Smith-Kearns DS model https://tdl.wisc.edu/dollar-spot-model/ is a good resource for this btw, and Syngenta can email you alerts based on humidty/temps when you're in a high-risk period like we are now: https://www.greencastonline.com/dollar-spot-solutions). Here's where you can sign up for all their alerts: https://www.greencastonline.com/login/signup.aspx

I installed a small 500sqft section of Zeon on the property line where my neighbors 419 was dying out (too much shade) and have been pleasantly surprised at how little input this turf requires. It's had an application of fertilizer late April and getting ready to throw down some high-K fert coming up here shortly for its 2nd and final app of the season. Other than that it's as hands off as I'd want a turf to be (centipede is so not my thing!). It reminds me a lot of my moms Emerald, but with a nicer growth habit. And you, my friend, have yours in tip-top shape!! Looks awesome.


----------



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

corneliani said:


> glinget said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly I have no idea! I was just going off some of my posts and feedback I got last year after some heavy mid summer rains to stay ahead of some fungus issues from having a fairly flat / hard to drain yard.
> ...


Really really great insights. Thanks for the details. Will include these notes in my lawn plan!! Cheers!

Also here's me taking off the "burnt ends"

Will post more progress pics as this comes in


----------



## MOJOERASER (11 mo ago)

Keep watering and 46 is a very high amount I don't like using anything that high. If that pellet or liquid doesn't get alot and I mean a lot of water it's just setting there on the lawn with 100 degree heat . I live in Oklahoma and unless the weather is going to get below 95 for a week I do t fertilize at alll. So basically I don't get to in July or August. Did the same thing you did and it took about 2-3 weeks and I watered every day to get the fert thru so it wouldn't burn anymore.


----------



## kmbell3837 (Mar 17, 2021)

Reading through all of this, are there negatives when applying nearly all lawn treatments (Fert, PGR, Bug, Fungus, Weed, Micros, etc) in a day or over a weekend? I just did most of this, minus the weeds part, over the past weekend and was worried I might "overdue" it. I was gone for a month, came back for a week (reset HOC and clean up), left for another week, and came back and applied everything. No signs of issues, but it's only been 5 days. I am just waiting to come home one day to a disaster. Also the first time I have ever applied PGR.


----------



## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

kmbell3837 said:


> Reading through all of this, are there negatives when applying nearly all lawn treatments (Fert, PGR, Bug, Fungus, Weed, Micros, etc) in a day or over a weekend? I just did most of this, minus the weeds part, over the past weekend and was worried I might "overdue" it. I was gone for a month, came back for a week (reset HOC and clean up), left for another week, and came back and applied everything. No signs of issues, but it's only been 5 days. I am just waiting to come home one day to a disaster. Also the first time I have ever applied PGR.


Just separate your applications based on needing to be irrigated or not to keep it simple.


----------



## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

@glinget impressive looking however. I remember before!

Btw, what were you going after with the Celsius?


----------



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

jayhawk said:


> @glinget impressive looking however. I remember before!
> 
> Btw, what were you going after with the Celsius?


Thanks

I've seen success with prodaimine in the early spring. Celsius mid app in June and again in July and fall prodiamine. I've got an assortment of weeds that appear in June and July and are gone after Celsius. Can't see in those pics. But they are there.


----------



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

Here's an update of recovery. So sad to see that color I've lost. But it's coming back.


----------



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

Recovery update


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

nice recovery. Are you pushing it with any foliar nitrogen?


----------



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

corneliani said:


> nice recovery. Are you pushing it with any foliar nitrogen?


I haven't sprayed anything sinced I burned the tips. I've been watering and it's been raining and I've beeen mowing lol


----------



## glinget (Mar 8, 2021)

Realllly happy with the recovery - finally can say that. I sprayed this am for the first time since I torched the tips. Chelated iron and TNEX as I've been a week or so delinquent on TNEX.

It's so painful to work so hard on these yards and screw something up. It's a learning opp for sure but damn if it isn't painful to see the regression!

Thanks all for helping me on the recovery tips.


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

I honestly think these are the best lessons. You can follow recommendations from random people without knowing what the factors are in those limiting recommendations... heck, even the label sets limits based on certain assumptions that may or may not pertain to your exact situation! But once you see for yourself what the effects are you'll know what those thresholds are and when you can/can't push it. Don't let it hold you back. You've now seen the effects as well as the recovery, and what it takes to get there. You're now a pro :thumbup: 

Btw it's cool of you to have kept the thread updated. Lots of times ppl stop posting once mishaps happen. It's good to share that knowledge.. you never know who it helps out.


----------



## Dono1183 (Oct 11, 2021)

Great recovery, the lawn looks really nice!


----------



## franktiberi (7 mo ago)

Recovery didn't take long at all and it looks great. Nice work!


----------

