# One more time.... what have I done wrong???!!!



## TheZMan (9 mo ago)

Hi All,

Me again!!!!

I really need to not ignore what's going on out here because my grass.... is not looking like many of yours. It was, but something has gone in the wrong direction.

KBG:

Total N through spring 1.6lb TOTAL applied weekly AMS sprays of 0.21 lb / M - new sod lawn from last fall.

Issues arose after treatment of 1 lb AMS + Propi / M (only watered each zone 10 minutes then 85 degrees and sunny). Not sure if I torched a lot of grass just putting it out there.

Fungicide rotation this season: Azoxy, Propi, Propi (have Thiophanate Methyl for next MOA)

Are these burned tips or fungal? It's been like this last 3 mowings, not getting any better.

Mower blades now sharpened really well.

I'm going to post an image so you can see the grass ad about 3.5 inches and now post cut at 3 inches to get an idea of what I mean.

Be gentle....


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

That looks like mower damage. Could just be from the current heat wave. Not much you can do other than mow late in the day. Keeping the grass well-watered will also help.


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## TheZMan (9 mo ago)

bernstem said:


> That looks like mower damage. Could just be from the current heat wave. Not much you can do other than mow late in the day. Keeping the grass well-watered will also help.


I agree but it's cloudy and 70 degrees right now. These blades have just been sharpened on the American Sharpener and are razor sharp.

I thought it was tearing of the grass blades but short of throwing my 2019 HRX out at this point I don't know what do to.


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## bosox_5 (Jun 20, 2018)

If the blades are sharp, they might not be spinning fast enough. Your mower might be underpowered because your turf density is high.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Check the RPM of your mower. Raise it if too low.


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## Justmatson (Apr 4, 2020)

Mower blade on the correct way?

Not questioning your intelligence... I admit I've put my blades on up side down by accident. 
Last year I had cuts that looked identical to yours. I came here asking questions and like others said check RPM. I adjusted it a bit, still the same. 
Went to sharpen the blade again and that's when I noticed it was upside down..... &#128563;


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## TheZMan (9 mo ago)

Oh wow - I just borrowed my dad's Murray from Home Depot. It just stalled 2 feet in...... is it really possible the sod got too dense for me and I'll need to upgrade mowers?


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## TheZMan (9 mo ago)

Anyone have an HRX to confirm?


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## TheZMan (9 mo ago)

Lastly.....

Maybe I had fungus and am beating it???


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

TheZMan said:


>


If you look closely at this pic, it looks like you have a mixed KBG and tall fescue stand. The KBG looks mostly fine and the TF is what is discoloring. TF starts going to seed in my yard around this same time and there is always discoloration associated with it.

Bottom line, your stand looks fine to me. I don't think you have any active disease. The dull mower blade isn't helping and that's the only thing I'd address at this point.


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## TheZMan (9 mo ago)

tgreen said:


> TheZMan said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Ok if you're not worrried I'm not. Just looks horrific post mowing. Also - sod farm said it was 100% KBG. Not doubting you at all. I've seen areas that are completely different grass sheets or cultivars.

My plan is: hold fertilizer now that summer is here. Rotate fungicides as scheduled.

I also have a pH of 7.7 and chlorosis has been the issue since last fall. Spring wasn't an issue. Iron sulfate for the win.

Appreciate all the help and feedback.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

What was your propiconazole rate? Propi 14.3, or propi 41.8? What does 10 minutes of watering equate to in inches of water? How long did you wait to water it in? Have you been applying any PGR?

Although you see it more with PGR by itself or in combination with propi, propi by itself has some growth regulating effects. Over regulation/stunting of growth can cause the brown shredded leaf tips. Let us know if you are still having aftercut appearance issues with the newly sharpened blades.


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## TheZMan (9 mo ago)

@Pete1313 
Propi 14.3. 2oz per 1K

10 minutes of irrigation = .08 inches of water, just under .10 inches....... I know (why didn't I irrigate a full cycle? Just not thinking)
Watered in within 1 hour
No PGR

The thing is - this was June 5. Now every time I mow - this is the result - yellow lawn. Will look better in 2 days but then time to cut again.

Thank you for getting in on this post.

ALSO.... HRX blades are balanced and SHARP - using the AllAmerican sharpener, very clean and consistent grind.

Do you think this is mechanical blade injury or chemical? Obviously the lawn is growing well which is always a good sign. There are no signs of thinning or grass death



I had it dialed in 2 weeks ago men....


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## Cdub5_ (Jun 12, 2019)

Hello,
I notice in the pic of your mower blade that the face of your blade looks somewhat damaged and could be abrasive to the grass. Your cutting edge may be sharp as a razor, but if that area of the blade is damaged it could be coming into contact with the grass tips and acting like sand paper.
Just an observation, something has definitely changed because your previous pics of your lawn look really great.
Hope this may help


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

If you mow early in the day and it is tearing the grass, it is doing to cause white tips when the sun bakes it. Basically it is a open wound and it will loose water until it heals. When it is hot/sunny, mow at 8pm and only if you have to.

Now the damage is there and until it grows again and you mow it off, it will look like this.


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## TheZMan (9 mo ago)

@Cdub5_ 
Awesome eye. Thank you for spotting that!!!! I have a spare ready to go. I'll scrape this off and have a look!

@g-man as always appreciate you taking a look.

Can I drop some FAS for a little pop? I'm still yet to try it and I'm a pH 7.7 guy.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Why cause more stress?


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## TheZMan (9 mo ago)

Ok no go. I was under the impression that foliar iron was more aesthetic and not as stressful as a fertilizer application but totally stand corrected.


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## macattack (Nov 2, 2020)

I was wondering if the blade is bent in some small way, and your cut isn't even.


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## MacLawn (Oct 26, 2021)

TheZMan said:


> Oh wow - I just borrowed my dad's Murray from Home Depot. It just stalled 2 feet in...... is it really possible the sod got too dense for me and I'll need to upgrade mowers?


Yes, I did a bit of a lawn redo starting fall 2020 with a soil test and correction 
Fall 2021 my old 6hp 21 Craftsman was choking on the grass. Found a used HRX and it was much better butt this mower was not adjusted correctly.
The blade clutch cable was not tight enough and the Drive speed was jot adjusted enough. To add to it when I removed the blade the secondary blade was not installed correctly.


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## MacLawn (Oct 26, 2021)

TheZMan said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Me again!!!!
> 
> ...


A blade that is to sharp will roll that sharp edge and cause poor cutting.
Dont know if true but my dad always said if you can cut your finger on the blades edge its to sharp.
He had one of those old school bench top blade sharpeners with the notch in the grinding wheel. That thing never put a "sharp" edge on a blade but was very uniform.

My lawn looked like yours back in late april. After I cut it In the morning I came home that night and it looked like someone to a tan sharpie to all my blade tips. Took a bit to grow out.


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## MacLawn (Oct 26, 2021)

TheZMan said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Me again!!!!
> 
> ...


A blade that is to sharp will roll that sharp edge and cause poor cutting.
Dont know if true but my dad always said if you can cut your finger on the blades edge its to sharp.
He had one of those old school bench top blade sharpeners with the notch in the grinding wheel. That thing never put a "sharp" edge on a blade but was very uniform.

My lawn looked like yours back in late april. After I cut it In the morning I came home that night and it looked like someone to a tan sharpie to all my blade tips. Took a bit to grow out.

My lawn right now is going through so much stuff its making me spin.
I have all sorts of issues. So im just going to make sure I have enough water and light feeding until Fall.


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## TheZMan (9 mo ago)

We just got 0.25 inches of rain last night and magically the lawn looks better. The injury is mechanical. I'll wash this blade and look at it later. Very tired from lawn stress. Will investigate as we get closer to the next cut.


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

g-man said:


> If you mow early in the day and it is tearing the grass, it is doing to cause white tips when the sun bakes it. Basically it is a open wound and it will loose water until it heals. When it is hot/sunny, mow at 8pm and only if you have to.
> 
> Now the damage is there and until it grows again and you mow it off, it will look like this.


Don't want to derail the thread but, when it comes to TTTF, it is hard to stress the ^forgoing^ too much, once air and soil temps get so high.

I have a neighbor who simply INSISTS on mowing his TTTF grass before Noon but who doesn't "get it" why his lawn takes a really drastic nose-dive every June through mid-September when daytime solar is scorching and heat can be oven-like oppressive … back in 2016-17 we discussed his frustration over-and-over like beating the proverbial dead horse … I tried every way I could think of to open his eyes to the benefits of mowing at least after the sun crested in the afternoon … he would gush over our lawn and I'd explain HE COULD SEE ME mowing later and later in the day each week, as the hotter and drier it got …

I thought we had "arrived" when he acknowledged understanding his grass blades were each trying to "heal" or "repair" immediately after being cut during the same sweltering heat-of-day he was trying to avoid by staying inside the basement of his ac'ed house. But, after trying it once or twice (and even observing less stress in the lawn the subsequent week) he said even the evenings were either too hot or humid for him when the mornings, "are so cool and pleasant - even if the grass is soaking wet." (And as he has no irr system, yes we discussed the lawn was being deprived of the only water the grass was getting via overnight / pre-dawn heavy (heavy!) dew.)

Once I provided him with a "Botany 101" slideshow PowerPoint on how plants work it was obvious his wife (a retired nurse) "got it" but, as it turns out he "really" prefers to watch something on tv (what I've no clue) in the afternoon / evenings so eventually, I took my wife's advice and shut up.

Last I heard he was going to try plugging his TTTF lawn with mail order zoysia plugs … (I know zero about zoysia so, maybe he's onto something?)

This weeks heat will crest at 97^F today - with a heat index last 102^F - so, I'll start mowing tomorrow (92^ high) sometime after 4pm (takes me about 3+ hours including edging and blowing) which will give the grass a good ~ 20 hours before being solar scorched on Friday (85^ high! :thumbup: ) … plenty of time for botany 101 to complete itself …



TheZMan said:


> We just got 0.25 inches of rain last night and magically the lawn looks better. …


That's great news! :thumbup:

Now please - send some rain my way! :lol:


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## TheZMan (9 mo ago)

A couple thoughts:

1. This was a purchased lawn of 100% KBG. If you guys see stuff in there that isn't KBG, then I'm really disappointed with the sod farm. But, this would explain the let down going into summer!!! Really though????!!!!

2. Last evening's cut was at 6pm on a 70 degree cloudy day. I will be really mindful going forward to continue to only mow evenings. I might still be messed up from the last mowing.

3. I'm going to bring this mower to a place and have them look into throttle. I got a cheap Tachometer which reads 2880 RPM.

As always I appreciate everyone for the advice and motivation to improve and get better at this. It's a fantastic community developed here.


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## TLowe (9 mo ago)

I have Tttf mixed with KBG and my grass looks exactly the same. My lawn looks great if I grow it out to 5 inches. When I cut at 4 it looks bad. 
I treated for grubs and fungus. Also sharpened my blades. My shaded back yard looks awesome. 
I'm left thinking I have weak roots from compaction at this point. 
If you solve this please update.


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## TheZMan (9 mo ago)

Hey all,

Just posting a follow up this evening as we head into the weekend. Currently Friday evening.

High temperatures of 91 incoming for Saturday and Sunday. My plan is to leave it be until Sunday night around 7pm. I would rather leave it alone prior to the short lived heat. From last cut which was Tuesday 6/21, the lawn is healthy and dominating as we had a beautiful rain day mid week.

Clearly the injury was mechanical due to the mower. I'm stumped on this one. This Honda HRX is respected mower but it's not getting the job done on this grass. I'm investigating other mowers. Unsure of what to do. I'm happy with the lawn 72 hours post cut.

Anyone maybe think coming up from 3 inches to 3.5 would help next cut?



Better shot of the blades here as well. The brown seems to go away.


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## Jersey_diy (Sep 5, 2020)

Hmmmi am thinking the mower is under powered... But also there is some sort of nutrient deficiency as well.

Your turf looks really thick.. Might need to upgrade


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## TheZMan (9 mo ago)

@Jersey_diy

pH is 7.7. Grass suffered bad chlorosis last fal 1 month post installation. I've never applied foliar iron...... until tonight - been itching to try that FAS recipe from the guide and gave it a go. 1,000 sq feet test plot.

I will grab labs this week since it leaves ample time to tweak anything if necessary.

This sod became a thick beast since last fall installation. No idea what to upgrade to......... Am I telling the wife we are getting a 0 turn for 1/3 acre?......


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Not all blades will be growing in the heat, so brown tips can linger for a while. Raising the HOC will cover up the brown tips that are not getting cut and make the lawn look better.

I often will delay a mowing if the temps are high but going to come down. I feel the stress of taking a bit more off is less than mowing in 95+ weather.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

bernstem said:


> I often will delay a mowing if the temps are high but going to come down. I feel the stress of taking a bit more off is less than mowing in 95+ weather.


^+1


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## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

I'm seeing fungus issues on the close ups. However, with the temps being so high, it is best to just wait it out before applying fungicide. The new pics look much better. I highly doubt its your mower unless it is bogging down. Just make sure the blades are sharp as it is introducing disease into the plant.


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## TheZMan (9 mo ago)

@situman

Agreed, there was a low level maybe happening. I let the lawn dry out and had also applied some Thiophanate Methyl as part of my rotation after Azoxy and Propi end of May and Early June.

Now almost 2 weeks since those close ups things are looking happy again.

The other issue which again is why I should have journaled everything and still should just do one is that the new sod was hammered badly by the sun day of installation last year. I'm very lucky it fully recovered this spring. My lawn has a subtle low level of dead grass which I think fooled me for fungus. I'll be asking around about dethatch timing and machine etc to come up with a plan for the fall.

Next year..... robot mower for the win


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## TheZMan (9 mo ago)

I really got after it sharpening those blades.

@g-man

CHECK OUT HOW CLEAN THAT CUT IS NOW!!!!!


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## jcs43920 (Jun 3, 2019)

Looks to me like the lawn is still pretty good overall but I think you need to buy a new mower blade.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

One question: are you mulching, bagging, or side discharge?

Mulching puts the most load on the engine since the clippings aren't cleared, they're cycled around and cut multiple times. Your lawn is incredibly thick, and any mower will be burdened by varying degrees mulching that turf you have there.

Try bagging, or side discharge if you can. See if it makes an improvement in cut quality.

Another option is to buy a gator high lift and/or mulching blade, they are much heavier and in my opinion the greater blade mass is less effected by thicker sections of turf.


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## TheZMan (9 mo ago)

@Jconnelly6b thanks for sticking around on both threads of mine. This whole mess started after the sod truly thickened up like crazy. It really took off. My cut quality went down for sure.

I've always mulched.

I ordered the max power high lift blade and will have it on hand for Sunday. It's a single blade but works with the HRX. Awesome reviews on this blade. I will try to bag some to see how this blade performs and will report back.


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