# Driving myself insane with grass choices



## SoCalClueless (Jun 10, 2020)

Hi everyone,

I have spent the last couple days doing a deep dive into different grasses for my lawn but have reached the point where I might just go insane. So I am looking for some sage advice. I have about 1,200 sq ft of dirt yard at my home in Los Angeles about 45 minutes east of the ocean. The qualities that I value are something that is reasonably tough since I have a medium size dog and a toddler but also something my daughter would be comfortable running around on. I would like something that is also not too water hungry, something low maintenance and of course something that is a decent value. I don't mind grasses that have a dormant period. The grasses I've narrowed it down with the prices I've found locally are:

St. Augustine - sod for $1.10 per sq ft (every gardener recommends)
Bermuda TIF 419 - sod for $0.54 per sq ft
UC Verde Buffalo - plugs for $0.54 per sq ft
RTF (tall fescue) - sod for $0.45 per sq ft
Superior Fescue - sod for $0.57 per sq ft

I wish I could go and see the grasses in person but most of these places that sell only allow people to order over the phone or online and pick up, no browsing. I am also not sophisticated enough to identify grasses in other people's yards.

Any advice anyone has would be extremely appreciated.

Thanks!


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

Your decision should be based on your commitment level to lawn care. My vote is Tif 419. If you devote some time to it, it's an incredible grass. Most people that poo poo on it are the same people mowing at 2-3" wondering why it turns brown every time. Mowed low with proper inputs and it's a great barefoot grass. I haven't worn shoes mowing my lawn in years.

To PROPERLY care for bermuda, it takes quite a bit of maintenance, primarily mowing. It should be mowed under 1" , 2-3 times/week. Probably best to have a reel mower. Fertilizer inputs are probably the highest out of all the options too.

If you want something that you mow every 7-10 days with a rotary anywhere from 2-4" and only want to fertilize sporadically, maybe St.Aug is the best choice. But that comes at a sacrifice because it's more susceptible to fungus. Plus it will take more water than Tif419.

Fescue shouldn't even be considered in LA - way too hot for fescue.


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## southernbuckeye (Sep 29, 2019)

I'd say anything but Fescue, and second the vote for Bermuda.


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

Fescues require the most amount of water and dog will tear them up pretty quick. Another vote for 419 Sod, tough, durable, and can look great mowed with a rotary and even better with a Reel. 1200 sq ft of grass..one $25 bag of fertilizer with last entire year. They are all gonna have maintenance associated with them equally..other than 419 if you end up mowing short with a reel mower. Plenty of threads showing warm season grasses on this forum. Most members here show what grass they have in there profile. I have Celebration Bermuda cut at .400" with a reel, similar to 419 but the grass blades are a little thicker and its a little darker color. Tifway 419 has been a staple at golf courses all over the US since the 70's.


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## DuncanMcDonuts (May 5, 2019)

Not to throw another wrinkle in your analysis paralysis, but if you are thinking bermuda and Tifway 419, look into TifTuf. It's a better version of Tifway 419.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

I agree with everyone above. I've grown fescue, kentucky bluegrass, zoysia and bermuda.

As long as you have enough sun, I would choose bermuda. With that being said, have you looked into zoysia? Zoysia is (pretty) tough and is less maintenance than bermuda.

As far as bermuda goes, I bet you can find other cultivars. TifTuf is allegedly more drought tolerant that 419. I've never seen t10 bermuda, but it's suppose to be lower maintenance and can be kept at a higher cut with less mowing.

I'm not a fan of St Augs for a "wear" area.

I won't even look at fescue anymore. It's a water hog in the summer, has disease issues and needs regular overseeding if you don't take care of it's problems.


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## SoCalClueless (Jun 10, 2020)

Thank you all for your advice. I was looking at these particular two fescues because they were advertised as having rhizomes that increased toughness but it sounds like from everyone that it is simply marketing nonsense and I should avoid them at all cost. I'm going to take a look at TifTuf as it sounds really interesting. Anyone have any experience with the UC Verde? It sounds like it was designed for So Cal by two ag schools (UC Riverside and UC Davis) in particular which is what drew me to look into it.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@SoCalClueless buffalograss is terrific in the right situation - if you lived in Phoenix with full sun for example. It will require little maintenance and virtually no supplemental irrigation, but it isn't really as nice to look at as the other possibilities and has some issues withstanding traffic and shade.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

@SoCalClueless I'm convinced fescue (TTTF) is all marketing and lawn businesses and Scott's in business.

My near full sun front yard is kentucky blue grass in NC, it has less disease than surrounding TTTF. I don't overseed and aerate every year like my neighbors. The bluegrass goes dormant and largely comrs back after drought, fescue is toast..
Sorry if anyone is a TTTF fan.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

DuncanMcDonuts said:


> Not to throw another wrinkle in your analysis paralysis, but if you are thinking bermuda and Tifway 419, look into TifTuf. It's a better version of Tifway 419.


I would second this .


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## DeliveryMan (Mar 1, 2018)

Just another vote for TifTuf -- it might be a bit more expensive upfront for the sod though

I have 3000 sq feet of it.. cutt at 0.5 inches -- its super soft on my feet, it tolerates my two boys playing on it for hours on end. But I would say that it does require some work with 2 cuts per week in the growing season (which may be all the time in LA)..


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## Wfrobinette (Feb 3, 2019)

SoCalClueless said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have spent the last couple days doing a deep dive into different grasses for my lawn but have reached the point where I might just go insane. So I am looking for some sage advice. I have about 1,200 sq ft of dirt yard at my home in Los Angeles about 45 minutes east of the ocean. The qualities that I value are something that is reasonably tough since I have a medium size dog and a toddler but also something my daughter would be comfortable running around on. I would like something that is also not too water hungry, something low maintenance and of course something that is a decent value. I don't mind grasses that have a dormant period. The grasses I've narrowed it down with the prices I've found locally are:
> 
> ...


Bermuda by a mile however I'd choose TifTuf over 419 any day of the week.

"Tif419 bermudagrass (released 1960) can look very nice when maintained properly. It will easily meet your needs for green lawn. TifTuf bermuda (patented 2016) is a much more modern bermudagrass that is more drought tolerant, shade tolerant, cold tolerant, and wear tolerant than older lawn grasses. That's the difference."


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## Wfrobinette (Feb 3, 2019)

SoCalClueless said:


> Thank you all for your advice. I was looking at these particular two fescues because they were advertised as having rhizomes that increased toughness but it sounds like from everyone that it is simply marketing nonsense and I should avoid them at all cost. I'm going to take a look at TifTuf as it sounds really interesting. Anyone have any experience with the UC Verde? It sounds like it was designed for So Cal by two ag schools (UC Riverside and UC Davis) in particular which is what drew me to look into it.


I wouldn't say it's marketing nonsense. It's more to do with where it grows best. I've lived in the transition zone most of my adult life and spent 8 of the last 10 years in cool season territory. I prefer cool season grasses for sure. However, my experience with them in the transition zone has been mixed. In chronological order

Transition Zone
Coastal VA
In Chesapeake, VA (sandy loam) did fescue and it performed decently even in summer but needed lots of water. Was on a well so didn't care. Needed to overseed in fall
In Va Beach(heavy Clay)I tried fescue it did ok until the summer then I had to water it a ton(city) and required heavy over seeding in fall. .

Mountains, VA
In Roanoke, VA ( clay loam) Fescue performed well but still struggled in summer and required heavy over seeding in fall.

Cool season zone
NJ and PA Bluegrass(sum) and fine fescue(shade) blends. Rocked it out in the spring summer and fall.

Charlotte, NC
Tiftuf - less water(city and no second meters allowed) green all summer. Overseed with rye in winter when dormant(never watered past October). Some neighbors went fescue and it looks like crap all summer long. And my rye blew their fescue out of the water october-March.

http://silverfallsseed.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Grass-Season-Map.jpg


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## Wfrobinette (Feb 3, 2019)

probasestealer said:


> @SoCalClueless I'm convinced fescue (TTTF) is all marketing and lawn businesses and Scott's in business.
> 
> My near full sun front yard is kentucky blue grass in NC, it has less disease than surrounding TTTF. I don't overseed and aerate every year like my neighbors. The bluegrass goes dormant and largely comrs back after drought, fescue is toast..
> Sorry if anyone is a TTTF fan.


I loved my KBG up north. I wouldn't touch it in Charlotte though. Frankly, TTTF is inferior to KBG in full sun. Shade it's a different story though.


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## Wfrobinette (Feb 3, 2019)

DeliveryMan said:


> Just another vote for TifTuf -- it might be a bit more expensive upfront for the sod though
> 
> I have 3000 sq feet of it.. cutt at 0.5 inches -- its super soft on my feet, it tolerates my two boys playing on it for hours on end. But I would say that it does require some work with 2 cuts per week in the growing season (which may be all the time in LA)..


I don't know why anyone would pay to put 419 in a lawn now. It's a 50+ year old cultivar and their are other superior varieties out there. The builders use it around here because it's cheap but landscape guys all recommend tiftuf now.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

@DeliveryMan I agree as a rule. It is cheap. For some it's the only thing you can get as sprigs. I love TifTuf, but I couldn't get TifTuf sprigs if I had a large project. The only other sprigs I've been able to find are 419 and T-10 near me.

@Wfrobinette I'm in Winston, so not too far from you. *** does ok here, late summer is rough. I agree TTTF is better in the shade, but the fungal issues, OMG. I have some dense shade and grow a red/chewing/creeping fescue mix. It needs nothing, but there is not traffic in those areas. I don't consider the chewing/hard/creeping/red fescues the same as TTTF. But as you mentioned, I wouldn't choose a cool season grass anymore.


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

Wfrobinette said:


> DeliveryMan said:
> 
> 
> > Just another vote for TifTuf -- it might be a bit more expensive upfront for the sod though
> ...


Heard that. Unbeknownst to me, I actually have TifSport. I reno'd a flowerbed last year and bought half a pallet of Tif419 assuming that's what I had. Yeah - 1 year later and that spot still sucks. Lacks color, density, everything.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I dunno... my 419 looks awesome! I got it because it was the cheapest and most available Bermuda in my area. When I did the first section, it was the only variety that was available, now I can get either Tifway 419 or Tiftuf. I recently did an additional area of 500sf and continued with 419 just for consistency. I agree Tiftuf is a bit more resilient but 419 is still a decent cultivar if properly maintained. My 419 looks better than my friends Tiftuf but my 419 didn't go dormant this past winter. I bet if we have a harsher winter, the Tiftuf would show it;s strength.


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## Wfrobinette (Feb 3, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> I dunno... my 419 looks awesome! I got it because it was the cheapest and most available Bermuda in my area. When I did the first section, it was the only variety that was available, now I can get either Tifway 419 or Tiftuf. I recently did an additional area of 500sf and continued with 419 just for consistency. I agree Tiftuf is a bit more resilient but 419 is still a decent cultivar if properly maintained. My 419 looks better than my friends Tiftuf but my 419 didn't go dormant this past winter. I bet if we have a harsher winter, the Tiftuf would show it;s strength.


Tituf was even for sale until 2016 from what I read. I may be wrong.


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## Wfrobinette (Feb 3, 2019)

probasestealer said:


> @DeliveryMan I agree as a rule. It is cheap. For some it's the only thing you can get as sprigs. I love TifTuf, but I couldn't get TifTuf sprigs if I had a large project. The only other sprigs I've been able to find are 419 and T-10 near me.
> 
> @Wfrobinette I'm in Winston, so not too far from you. *** does ok here, late summer is rough. I agree TTTF is better in the shade, but the fungal issues, OMG. I have some dense shade and grow a red/chewing/creeping fescue mix. It needs nothing, but there is not traffic in those areas. I don't consider the chewing/hard/creeping/red fescues the same as TTTF. But as you mentioned, I wouldn't choose a cool season grass anymore.


You have my lawn that I had in NJ. KBG and fine fescue blend. Best lawn I ever had.

If I ever have another cool season lawn I am going to look at those improvements in KBG and TTTF mentioned above.

I love my Bermuda but it's more work than I'd like.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

DuncanMcDonuts said:


> Not to throw another wrinkle in your analysis paralysis, but if you are thinking bermuda and Tifway 419, look into TifTuf. It's a better version of Tifway 419.


That was my thought as well. Tiftuf, Lat36, Tahoma 31, or whatever advanced hybrid bermuda equivalent is available in OP's area.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

lucas287 said:


> ...
> If you want something that you mow every 7-10 days with a rotary anywhere from 2-4" and only want to fertilize sporadically, maybe St.Aug is the best choice. But that comes at a sacrifice because it's more susceptible to fungus. Plus it will take more water than Tif419.
> ...


Also, once your dog starts sniffing for a place to pee, it just goes ahead and preemptively dies. I have found SA to be one of the worst grasses for tolerating dogs.


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