# Battery Brand Luck



## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

My Duralast Gold 350 CCA just started leaking acid after 2 seasons - was regularly on a battery tender too so I'm looking for a new brand.

Anyone have better luck with any of the other lawn tractor brands?


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

Are AGM batteries available in the size you need?


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

Shindoman said:


> Are AGM batteries available in the size you need?


Yes, hadn't even thought about that. Ordered a 12 Volt 35 Ah AGM Sealed Lead Acid from Batterymart. You've had good experience with AGMs I gather?


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## Ballistic (Mar 19, 2018)

Ive always had good luck with Deka but my new go to brand is full river AGM batteries.


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

cglarsen said:


> Shindoman said:
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> > Are AGM batteries available in the size you need?
> ...


Have them in our Motorhome. Last much longer than lead acid 6 volts and no maintenance.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

cglarsen said:


> My Duralast Gold 350 CCA just started leaking acid after 2 seasons - was regularly on a battery tender too so I'm looking for a new brand.
> 
> Anyone have better luck with any of the other lawn tractor brands?


Careful with some battery tenders. Some are "trickle chargers" that can slightly overcharge a battery by feeding it constant current. If you are getting plenty of corrosion on the positive terminal, this can be an indicator for overcharging, Chargers that can stop the charging current altogether and run a quick top-off periodically are much easier on batteries.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

MasterMech said:


> cglarsen said:
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> > My Duralast Gold 350 CCA just started leaking acid after 2 seasons - was regularly on a battery tender too so I'm looking for a new brand.
> ...


It's a BatteryMinder Charger-Maintainer-Desulfator from Northern Tool. No problem with that is there?


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

cglarsen said:


> MasterMech said:
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Seems fine. If you aren't adding water regularly or seeing lots of positive terminal corrosion, I think you are ok. I recently helped someone else with a no-start/no-crank issue and turned out his B+ cable was shot due to corrosion wicking it's way up the cable and rotting the cable inside of the insulation. He mentioned that he used a trickle charger all winter and still needed to replace the battery every other year and that's when I made the "connection".


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## rjw0283 (May 11, 2020)

I'm not a huge fan of hooking battery tenders up 24/7. I think they are good to hook up now and then for a day or two to get a good charge. Hook it up every couple months for a day, get a good charge and leave it alone for a while. I never have battery issues with this method. (On boat, golf cart, generators)
as stated above... Over Charging is bad... and leaving a battery with low volts is just as bad. Once a battery sits for a few months at very low volts... they success of bringing it back on a charger is greatly reduced.
Corrosion on positive means it's venting out the terminal, always make sure your battery is clean ( if it has vent caps) 
Corrosion on Negative terminal usually means undercharging...


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## BobLovesGrass (Jun 13, 2020)

There are few manufacurers and lots of brands.
AGM are fickle about charging.
Honestly I would choose based on preferred local retailers and warranty.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

@MasterMech @rjw0283 Maybe you guys can help me diagnose here.

So the new battery is barely getting the engine started now and probably damaged from undercharging. Voltage is 12.9 on battery charged but the charging system is clearly not working. When running WOT, voltage on battery is still 12.9. I measured voltage on alternator positive terminal at 12.5 (non-running) and 0.5 volt drop seems to be the upper end of acceptable to there. When running it's up around 18 volts at the same point. I'm wondering if this is a voltage regulator problem not sending current back to the battery? Bad alternator? Wiring/connection? Both fuses were good. Here's the charging/cranking wiring diagram:


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

cglarsen said:


> @MasterMech @rjw0283 Maybe you guys can help me diagnose here.
> 
> So the new battery is barely getting the engine started now and probably damaged from undercharging. Voltage is 12.9 on battery charged but the charging system is clearly not working. When running WOT, voltage on battery is still 12.9. I measured voltage on alternator positive terminal at 12.5 (non-running) and 0.5 volt drop seems to be the upper end of acceptable to there. When running it's up around 18 volts at the same point. I'm wondering if this is a voltage regulator problem not sending current back to the battery? Bad alternator? Wiring/connection? Both fuses were good. Here's the charging/cranking wiring diagram:


Is the voltage regulator contained to the alternator assembly or is it a separate unit on these?

EDIT: In a quick refresh, this system is much like the one's I was familiar with on the 300 series garden tractors. (330/332/322) Assuming the AC output from the alternator (measured at the regulator input) is ok, and we are working with a known good battery, the voltage regulator is a very likely (and expensive) culprit. There's a lot of info out there about righting the wrongs in these systems as they can simply fail, or overcharge, work intermittently, etc.

https://www.wfmachines.com/threads/332-voltage-regulator-probelms.5600/

BUT BEFORE YOU REPLACE THE REGULATOR, READ THIS:

If a fully charged battery is struggling to crank the engine, use a heavy jumper cable to connect the starter housing directly to Battery - or at the very least, a known good chassis ground. If it cranks over normally, you have a bad engine to frame ground, which is a cheap fix.


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## rjw0283 (May 11, 2020)

Definitely check what Mastermech said.

If it's reading 12.9 while running it's charging. 12.5 is good. I'm thinking it's something else. Definitely check all the wires/connections for corrosion/rust/ being loose.

If it's consistently reading 12.9 while running I'd say that's good. 
I've also had batteries that show good voltage and had a bad cell and as soon as you put a load on it (crank starter) it'll drop down to 4.8 volts. Most car parts stores can perform a load test or you can put volt meter on battery while you crank it, observe the volts. I've seen new batteries fail.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

MasterMech said:


> cglarsen said:
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> > @MasterMech @rjw0283 Maybe you guys can help me diagnose here.
> ...


There is an external voltage regulator near the steering column but I think the alternator assembly also has a regulator or rectifier inside it. How would I test voltage at the external regulator input? At the pins on the wiring harness? I'm very green when it comes to electrical issues. I also plan to remove, clean, and tighten down all connections and grounds that I can get access to before I replace any components.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

cglarsen said:


> MasterMech said:
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If your alternator is the typical "pancake style" with just two same colored (brown according to your schematic) wires coming off it, then it likely does not have an internal regulator. It will supply the external regulator/rectifier with -> AC <- current that then gets rectified to DC current and sent to the battery as regulated DC current, typically 13-15V depending on load and battery charge state. Measure the AC output of the alternator by backprobing the wires in the connector at the regulator, if you don't get the specified AC voltage there, then work back to the alternator itself to find the break in your circuit.

Google "Voltage Drop Testing", it's the best way to track down faults due to poor connections in most circuits.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

@MasterMech You are correct on the alternator style and 2 brown wire connection. I measured voltage at the backside of the regulator connector (on regulator side of connection) and voltage = same voltage as battery both running and not running. Throttling up/down had no impact on its voltage. BAttery was fully charged and started engine relatively quickly but still a bit weaker than the last battery although it may be 20-30 fewer CCA on this AGM batt.

Is it then a regulator issue or alternator issue?


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## BobRoss (Jul 3, 2019)

I have actually been having good luck with Everlast Maxx batteries from Walmart. They also have a 3-year warranty that is pretty simple. That and their lawn battery is only about $20.

I normally don't recommend Walmart products, but they are actually pretty decent.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

@MasterMech @rjw0283

Update - Dazed and confused....things I've done:

1. Replaced voltage regulator and the charging system indicator light on the dash came back on. So that was good but battery still was not being charged by alternator. 
2. Trace all connections, remove, clean, tighten. Check grounds, no major issues found. Confirm continuity on fuse and main fuse - all good
3. Use jumper cable test to confirm grounding is good - it was. Battery still not charging.
4. Replaced alternator - battery STILL not charging - shake head - repeat voltage drop test (correctly this time) on positive side and it's like 12.5v so there's no power getting to alternator (I assume). 
5. Took pictures below for advice.

Here's the wiring to alternator and starter - looks ok and connections are nice and tight. 


Further down the wiring bundle I find this - a diode - cannot pull apart easily. Could this be blown and causing the issue? 


Then there are some relays here, one is the Start Relay - but my assumption is this is fine or engine wouldn't start. 


How/what should I be testing to further diagnose the problem? What does a fusible link look like and how would I know if it was bad? It must be something simple at this point, right?


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

If you have battery voltage at 204 (at/near voltage regulator) with the key OFF then fusible link F2 MUST be good. Fusible links often just look like ordinary wire although the color is usually different than the main wire it's connected to.

To confirm the charging system is getting energy from the alternator, you should be measuring AC voltage, not DC, across terminals 532 and 534, hopefully this is at the connector for the VR, not the little connector at the ALT. You can certainly measure it at the ALT but this only confirms the ALT is generating current, not that it's got good connections to the VR. You should be getting something like 30+ volts AC and it should increase with engine RPM. The alternator in this system should never see battery voltage.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

MasterMech said:


> If you have battery voltage at 204 (at/near voltage regulator) with the key OFF then fusible link F2 MUST be good. Fusible links often just look like ordinary wire although the color is usually different than the main wire it's connected to.
> 
> To confirm the charging system is getting energy from the alternator, you should be measuring AC voltage, not DC, across terminals 532 and 534, hopefully this is at the connector for the VR, not the little connector at the ALT. You can certainly measure it at the ALT but this only confirms the ALT is generating current, not that it's got good connections to the VR. You should be getting something like 30+ volts AC and it should increase with engine RPM. The alternator in this system should never see battery voltage.


Thank you, very helpful. I'll report findings later.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

cglarsen said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> > If you have battery voltage at 204 (at/near voltage regulator) with the key OFF then fusible link F2 MUST be good. Fusible links often just look like ordinary wire although the color is usually different than the main wire it's connected to.
> ...


Findings: 
Battery voltage at 204 confirmed. 
Conitnuity between alternator and VR confirmed. 
AC voltage at 532 and 534 = 0. 
Voltage at alternator pins = 0 with engine operating. Seems that alternator is not working. Going to have the old and new ones tested.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

PROBLEM SOLVED with new OEM-spec 20 amp alternator (and previously installed voltage regulator) instead of the 40 amp type that was in the machine when I bought it and I was trying to replace with same. Thanks for your help @MasterMech


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