# Tiff Tuff Emergency Plz Help!



## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

This is kind of a duplicate post so apologies but I am starting to panic a little and need to save this! I've spent way too much money and time to have to redo this so plz as much input as possible is greatly appreciated!

Last picture is my sod two weeks ago, at this time about a month old…looks GREAT! Since then in GA we've had a ton of rain on and off with major humidity and not much sun! We were finally getting some sun and I was leaving on vacation for 6 days so I left sprinklers off due to yard being soaked. I figured it'd had too much water and needed some heat. Couple close up where it's thinner shows some moss maybe? Yard gets minimum 6 hours sun in all areas and has been fertilized once as well.

I expected to return home and it look better. With sprinklers being off it almost looks worse!!!

Whole lot has a minor downhill slope so I think 2-3 shorter waterings weekly is better than one deep one due to runoff. The flat spot at the bottom of the hill looks the best.

So did I just let it dry out too much the last 6 days? Do I just need to keep irrigation coming in twice a week early morning and let the water/heat do it's thing? Anything I'm missing??

I just can't believe it's gone downhill like this abs I've literally poured every ounce of energy I have into this yard project. Plz help lol!

EDIT: Also, the sod at the bottom half of the yard is only 2 weeks or so old, so it is much newer and has not been mowed yet.


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## Automate (Aug 14, 2020)

I'm no expert but I would say get some extra water on the brown areas up near the house. Getting the proper amount of water to grass on a slope can be tricky since much of the water runs down the hill. If it was a problem with too much water and fungus I would think the grass at the bottom of the hill would have the most problem since it also seems to get the most tree shade.

Also, did you do the soap test to check for bugs?


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Automate said:


> I'm no expert but I would say get some extra water on the brown areas up near the house. Getting the proper amount of water to grass on a slope can be tricky since much of the water runs down the hill. If it was a problem with too much water and fungus I would think the grass at the bottom of the hill would have the most problem since it also seems to get the most tree shade.
> 
> Also, did you do the soap test to check for bugs?


I don't think there's bugs but how do I do that just so I can double check?


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Another thing, I've cut it a couple of times at 2.5". I have not bagged my clippings. Could the clippings be covering the sod abs hurting it from getting good sun?? Just trying to think of everything…I'm panicking.


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

Supersod?

Atlanta has had more than enough water in the last 2 weeks. 2 days out of 14 no rain. You?

Moss implies it's not drying/shade however the decline seems fast .... insects/pests? (Admittingly not a SME with those)


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

1. Breathe
2. What part of Georgia are you in more specifically? The Southern part of the state got hammered with 7+ inches of rain last week and the northern part of the state saw showers most days. Do you actually have a rain gauge at your house?
3. To check for bugs, pick a random spot that looks like crap close to an area that looks good and dig yourself a shovel sized hole about 6" down. Look through there for bugs.
4. You couldn't ruin that Bermuda project at this point with it rooted if you tried. It'll be okay, panicking doesn't help anything.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

jayhawk said:


> Supersod?
> 
> Atlanta has had more than enough water in the last 2 weeks. 2 days out of 14 no rain. You?
> 
> Moss implies it's not drying/shade however the decline seems fast .... insects/pests? (Admittingly not a SME with those)


Yeah same, but I think about 4 or so with no rain here and 90+ degree days.

I'll check for bugs but I don't think I have any.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Amoo316 said:


> 1. Breathe
> 2. What part of Georgia are you in more specifically? The Southern part of the state got hammered with 7+ inches of rain last week and the northern part of the state saw showers most days. Do you actually have a rain gauge at your house?
> 3. To check for bugs, pick a random spot that looks like crap close to an area that looks good and dig yourself a shovel sized hole about 6" down. Look through there for bugs.
> 4. You couldn't ruin that Bermuda project at this point with it rooted if you tried. It'll be okay, panicking doesn't help anything.


I'm in Hoschton, about an hour north of Atlanta.

I did notice a few spots that look like fertilizer burn as well. Yard guy put down some high phosphorus starter fert last week but it was already declining before that after the immense amount of rain.

I appreciate that, makes me feel better than I couldn't kill it lol.

What should I do if it's fert burn? Or if it's not, just keep watering as usual?


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

What is this thing!?!? Army worm?!?

Is it too late or can I save this stuff and kill them somehow!?!?


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

If you don't have a rain gauge, when you go out and dig to check for bugs, legit spend some time taking note of how wet the dirt is you're digging through and if it's dry on top, how far down until you hit moisture. If it's wet at the surface (I suspect since you're growing moss) it's not a water issue.

It'll grow out of fertilizer burn, but with the water we've had statewide I'm be surprised if that was the case. Hopefully somebody closer to you can give you a closer depiction of total rainfall amount over the last 7 days. Either way you can figure it out on your own by digging to check for pets and sticking your finger in the dirt and being observant of moisture.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Found this too!

I am leaving early AM for a week for work.

What can I go get tonight if anything!?!?


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Kustrud said:


> What is this thing!?!? Army worm?!?
> 
> Is it too late or can I save this stuff and kill them somehow!?!?


Grub Killer, you want the 24 hour stuff not the season long control stuff. If you have imitacloprid spray that and water it in.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Also fwiw you're ground looks pretty moist, go to Home Depot or Lowes and get some 24 hour grub killer and a rain gauge.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

What're these brown ones!?


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Amoo316 said:


> Also fwiw you're ground looks pretty moist, go to Home Depot or Lowes and get some 24 hour grub killer and a rain gauge.


It literally just poured 5 minutes ago haha.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

https://sodsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/SodU-Insect-Identification-Infographic.pdf

Mole Crickets maybe on the second one, hard to tell from pics, check the link.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Found out what that brown thing is


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Go get yourself a bag with the active Imidacloprid and get something with the active Bifinthren. I know that will cover you for both, I dunno if Imidacloprid covers Army Worms.

Edit according to the label of the bottle I have at the house Imidacloprid does not cover armyworms, but Bifinthren does.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Looks like pests and maybe fungus.

Did you put down anything for insects and/or a fungicide ?

I doubt it's dry, we've had a metric ton of rain. Right now I'm seeing yards getting fungus in my area… or getting gross from all the water sitting.

That's said I am seeing the moths laying eggs on leaves and hardscapes, so they are coming.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

FATC1TY said:


> Looks like pests and maybe fungus.
> 
> Did you put down anything for insects and/or a fungicide ?
> 
> ...


Appreciate it! It's definitely army worms and the brown things are their cocoons. It's from the moths I believe after reading a bit like you said above. At Home Depot now so plz keep the replies coming if you know anything!

Will these bugs kill my sod or can I still save it!?


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Kustrud said:


> FATC1TY said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like pests and maybe fungus.
> ...


Nah, you aren't gonna be dirt. It's not going to die, as they are eating the green portions of the leaf material.

Get down some bifen, or something that will target the moths and the army worms.

I would stick to a monthly application rate of an insecticide going forward, as well as a fungicide program. This weather is ripe for fungus and bugs. We are in the midst of the fungus outbreak, and the bugs are cranking up. Highly suggest you find something to spray, rather a granular material that needs watered in.

I have two liquid products here that will take care of your issue if you strike out. While I can't make it up your way, I am down near the airport, and willing to try and meet Friday near the old Turner field if you want some. No charge, just let me know your square footage and I'd be happy to assist.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

FATC1TY said:


> Kustrud said:
> 
> 
> > FATC1TY said:
> ...


Much appreciated abs they is very kind! I'd definitely take you up on that but I'm leaving in the AM for 2 weeks for work. I'll have to find sketching here.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Found this.

Which rate should I use?


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Go High


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

They will most certainly not kill your sod. I've had webworms eat every bit of green off sections of my yard and it comes back just fine. Consider it a "biological scalp". Kill them and the grass will come back.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

I'm going to leave a few links to domyown for Bifen and Imida so you can order while you're gone, that way you have some on hand and ready to go when you get back as well as for future use. I basically just hitting refresh to see if you have any questions while in store so this is passing my time.

Imidacloprid - 21.4% active https://www.domyown.com/imidapro-2sc-p-2753.html?sub_id=2755
Bifenthrin - 7.9% active - https://www.domyown.com/bifen-it-p-226.html or 25.1% active - https://www.domyown.com/bifen-xts-p-1236.html


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Thank you!! I actually have liquid Bifen XTS I believe it's called. I do not have any calibrated way to spray in my grass though. I just spray around tummy foundation with it.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Kustrud said:


> Thank you!! I actually have liquid Bifen XTS I believe it's called. I do not have any calibrated way to spray in my grass though. I just spray around tummy foundation with it.


That's a really easy thing to get your setup with when you get home from your work trip.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Ok cool. I'll throw the granular stuff out tonight and PM you about the Bifen. Should the granular stuff work for now abs kill those things?

EDIT: Can too much of this granular stuff hurt my grass?


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Yeah, a lot of us spray Bifen in our yard every 30 days


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Don't forget you'll want something for grubs as well, clearly you didn't have near the number as you did army worms but there was 1 in there.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I spray Bifen XTS about every 4 to 6 weeks during the summer. My primary issues are mole crickets and webworms but it actually works on fire ants too, which can be difficult to control when it's raining a lot. I like Imidacloprid as well but I will spray my bamboo and shrubs for mosquitos so I don't like using Imidacloprid because it really puts a whooping on the bee populations.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

My yard guy is gonna come put out Top Choice tomorrow too to be safe.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Top Choice is Fipronil, I didn't think it had action on any of the pests you're seeing. In fact is the main active ingredient in Frontline Dog Flea and Tick pills among others.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

That's basically to say he's putting down something to put down something which will 
A. Target things you're already going to kill with the Bifen 
and 
B. Isn't addressing either of your actual problems.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Fipronil is AWESOME regarding fire ants but not sure it does much for webworms or grubs.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Redtwin said:


> Fipronil is AWESOME regarding fire ants but not sure it does much for webworms or grubs.


1000% agree, there's nothing better you can put in your yard for fire ants than Fipronil. Fairly positive no action on armyworms or grubs.

Edit: Last I checked Fipronil got banned for general brodcast use by homeowners in yards because of it's long half life in the soil. It's perimeter and termite treatment only afaik


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Amoo316 said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> > Fipronil is AWESOME regarding fire ants but not sure it does much for webworms or grubs.
> ...


I had a professional apply it for me and they guaranteed 12 months no ants so it must have a ridiculous residual effect. I saw not one single ant mound for the 12 months.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Redtwin said:


> I had a professional apply it for me and they guaranteed 12 months no ants so it must have a ridiculous residual effect. I saw not one single ant mound for the 12 months.


I used to use it when it was legal. The info I read said 7 year half life in soil. When i was using it, I'd do 
Full rate year 1
Nothing Year 2
Quarter Rate 1/2 in Year 3
Full rate again year 4.

This was based on what I was seeing in my yard in regards to ant hills.. When i saw the first ant hill in Y3 I'd hit it with a 1/4 app and go out full again following spring.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Wow, good to know. I've been thinking about not using them anymore abs taking that on myself anyway. This may have sealed that deal. It'll be a while before I have time to spray the Bifen. He was also gonna charge me $200 to put down the Top Choice….!

Do you think this Bifenthrin (active ingredient in Ortho) I just got at HD will solve my problem for now?

Says it kills everything including grubs. Sorry for the redundancy abs thanks a TON for all the help. Just want to be sure I 100% got a start on something before I go out of town.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

I think that will solve what appears to be your biggest problem right now which is Army Worms for sure.
I'd go out at full max rate.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Wanted to add I'm more than willing to help via PM, but I spray large volumes over large areas.

I think the smarter move would be to make a post in the equipment subforum about what kind of sprayer might best suit your needs based on what you plan to possibly apply, how big of an area you're spraying...etc.

I can chime in with my opinion, but I'm definitely not going to the best source of advice for what equipment would work best in your yard. Help calibrating something you've got or plan to get, I can be your huckleberry there as can a number of folks on this forum.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Ok great and thank you again! Just threw it down and will water in.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Kustrud said:


> Ok great and thank you again! Just threw it down and will water in.


Have a safe trip, looking forward to seeing some good pics when you get home.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Much appreciated!

How long does it take Bermuda to recover from this once the worms die?


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Kustrud said:


> How long does it take Bermuda to recover from this once the worms die?


Armyworms eat the green off the top of the grass. Once the Armyworms are dead, the green can grow again. You might show some stress which will delay greenup a little but but I'd be kind of shocked if you weren;t looking really solid by the time you return home.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

That's so good to hear! I'll be back Sat but leaving again next week for another week or more so I'm glad I was able to get something down!


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## FedDawg555 (Mar 19, 2020)

Email Brian Swartz at UGA Tifton campus. He was apart of the team that developed TIftuft. Send him pics and explain what's up. He will respond or even give you a call. He helped me when I ran into serious Pythiam issues with my Tiftuf shortly after installation. To make you feel better, he told me during its development we tried to kill the stuff and it kept coming back stronger so don't sweat how it looks now. He was right, it recovered and all is good.
[email protected]


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

FedDawg555 said:


> Email Brian Swartz at UGA Tifton campus. He was apart of the team that developed TIftuft. Send him pics and explain what's up. He will respond or even give you a call. He helped me when I ran into serious Pythiam issues with my Tiftuf shortly after installation. To make you feel better, he told me during its development we tried to kill the stuff and it kept coming back stronger so don't sweat how it looks now. He was right, it recovered and all is good.
> [email protected]


I surely will, great to know and thank you!!


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

So is my yard guy clueless or just full of crap??


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

So I found this and went ahead and sprayed the Bifen as well this AM. Didn't have time to calibrate sprayer but I took it easy and just make sure to get the product down as evenly as possible. I used .15 oz per 1k sq foot and it worked out pretty well. I figured it's not a Pre E or PGR so this should be OK and smoke those little things!

**My iPhones auto-correct has been terrible lately in case anyone was wondering**


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

@Kustrud have you applied 24 Hour Grub Killer Plus or another product with dylox/trichlorfon? In my experience Bifenthrin doesn't work fast enough to contain the damage caused by an active infestation of caterpillars.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

ionicatoms said:


> @Kustrud have you applied 24 Hour Grub Killer Plus or another product with dylox/trichlorfon? In my experience Bifenthrin doesn't work fast enough to contain the damage caused by an active infestation of caterpillars.


I have not….It's supposed to kill on contact, so we will see. I won't be able to do anything else until Sunday when I return.

Should I start to see these things dead everywhere if this is working?

I just realized, I've seen a TON of birds in my yard over the past week or more. This would explain that and give someone a heads up in the future maybe!

If you see birds pecking and eating a ton in your yard, time to check it out!


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Yes, I have a flock of starlings that politely let me know when there are webworms present.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Should I spray the Bifen again next week before going out of town just to be safe?


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

First of all, thanks a ton for the quick help! I think we caught it in time!

I am happy to report that I believe we are already looking better! I have sprayed Bifen twice at the .15 rate plus the granular stuff I put down.

**I still kick some moths up if I walk through the yard.....should I hit it one more time to be safe?**


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

A lot of us spray every Bifen every 30 days.  There's also a small "cult" of us that spray Imidacloprid every 90.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Amoo316 said:


> A lot of us spray every Bifen every 30 days. There's also a small "cult" of us that spray Imidacloprid every 90.


I will definitely make a habit of that after this ordeal!

Would it be safe to go ahead and spray one more time this week before i leave again just to be safe?


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Kustrud said:


> Would it be safe to go ahead and spray one more time this week before i leave again just to be safe?


Certainly not going to hurt anything.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Update:

I did not spray for a 3rd time yet.....

I walked through the yard today and there are still moths flying up everywhere.

Does that mean they're still here?

Or does that just mean some were developed too far along and turned into adults but hopefully
all of the larva are dead? From my understanding it's the first stage in their lifecycle that causes the damage.


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## falconsfan (Mar 25, 2019)

Search army worms on you tube for additional help. Your TT will recover but it may take some time. Also look into a Pro Plugger to help you patch some areas while we still have warm weather.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

I am not too worried about the damage at this point, I think I caught them in time. More so just want to make sure they stay dead lol.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

I don't want to beat a dead horse, just trying to see if there's an answer for this. Came out tonight and took this picture. Every single white speck you see is a moth hanging on a blade of grass. Does this mean I still have a problem or is this just the aftermath of having armyworms/webworms?

There's thousands of them.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

The moths are not a problem except that they are probably laying eggs. I am using GrubEx as a preventive for sod webworms. Details in my journal if you are interested.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

I'm just confused I guess, if I sprayed Bifen and used granular as well should I still be covered in moths??


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

@Kustrud This is where the Imidacloprid I keep mentioning comes in. Bifen is a contact pesticide and lasts in the ground for 30-90 days depending on TONS of things (rainfaill, pests treated, pH, soild drainage...etc).

The best analogy is those instant ant killer bottles you can buy. If you dump it on 100 ant mounds, your going to kill off 100 ant mounds. How many will come back and how soon? It's not a 1 for 1 comparison, but I look at Bifen the same way. Bifen for me supplies instant "knockdown" of anything it touches for about 30ish days. Imidacloprid provides "systemic" control on a 90 day basis.

That is the way I treat insects in my lawn. This isn't to say I'm an expert, this is just the best way I have found that works for me. Many other on here have found this works for them (long before I did) so there must be something to it.

If I were in your situation, exactly what I would do, is I would spray Bifen 1 more time before i go out of town again and have a bottle on Imidacloprid sitting in my garage as soon as I got back from my trip.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

10-4, thanks! I'll throw it all down! I'm not losing this battle lol!


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I really like Imidacloprid but you'll want to keep in on the ground and avoid any flowering plants or shrubs. It's very bad for your local bee populations.


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## ocean-front (Jun 21, 2020)

I had the same problem.Thanks to @Redtwin I was able to get it taken care of,BifenXTS sprayed on a regular schedule and a bug zapper to get the moths.Its amazing how effective the light is on the moths and they lay hundreds of eggs.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

ocean-front said:


> I had the same problem.Thanks to @Redtwin I was able to get it taken care of,BifenXTS sprayed on a regular schedule and a bug zapper to get the moths.Its amazing how effective the light is on the moths and they lay hundreds of eggs.


Great idea on the bug zapper! Just hang one near the backyard somewhere?


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## ocean-front (Jun 21, 2020)

Yes,I put 2 half acre lights in the far corners of my backyard.Put a trash can lid under the zapper for a night and see how effective they are.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Recovery is underway! Lots of water and hot days are helping!


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

So I am AMAZED with Bifen XTS. The worms are obviously dead and I can also walk around my backyard now without nats in my face! Thank you all for the amazing help!

Here's the before picture again followed by pictures this morning!


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

@Kustrud I'm glad you got it turned around. It's looking good but I shiver every time I look at that pebble walkway right next to the grass.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Redtwin said:


> @Kustrud I'm glad you got it turned around. It's looking good but I shiver every time I look at that pebble walkway right next to the grass.


Hahaha! It's honestly been OK. The metal edge is high enough so that I have not had to pick many rocks up!


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

I'm so glad this is back to rewarding you for all the hard work you put in back there. I'm also glad we didn't lose you from lack of oxygen to the brain while you were panicking :lol: Looking on point back there.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Amoo316 said:


> I'm so glad this is back to rewarding you for all the hard work you put in back there. I'm also glad we didn't lose you from lack of oxygen to the brain while you were panicking :lol: Looking on point back there.


LOL thanks again for the help! I was freaking out there for a moment! All good now!


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

You should consider starting a lawn journal. I see you keep posting in the warm season section. May as well consolidate all that stuff into one spot and keep up with it. I wouldn't mind following it.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Amoo316 said:


> You should consider starting a lawn journal. I see you keep posting in the warm season section. May as well consolidate all that stuff into one spot and keep up with it. I wouldn't mind following it.


Not a bad idea, much appreciated! I'm all over the place I know lol....I have transformed the front as well.....I'll do it! Again - thank you!


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