# Low dose Tenacity vs. waiting and Dimension on FF seeding?



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

It's now the last possible minute...

I'm into the beginning of green territory on the GDD tracker for base 50 crab germination temps.

Friday will be almost 4 weeks since I seeded some CRF fine fescue to fix some border areas in a yard where a snowblower took out some grass over the Winter. I seeded on April 24th. The grass is not very tall yet...maybe a half inch or less.

I can either wait 1-2 more weeks and then put down granular Dimension on those seeded areas, which are high pressure border areas (near pavement) for crabgrass...or put down a 1oz/A app of Tenacity without surfactant now to hold it over a week or two, and hope I don't kill it, since it's fine fescue seedlings that are single tiller and very short.

Not sure which to do...


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Or wait and use quinclorac.


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## Anthony Drexler (Apr 23, 2018)

I would use a crabgrass pre emergent, that is safe for new seed, like Jonathan Green crabgrass preventer plus, or something similar.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

g-man said:


> Or wait and use quinclorac.


Not going that route. Just not in the budget to buy another herbicide at this point.

Anyone else think the Tenacity is too risky? I don't know much about Tupersan, which was indirectly mentioned above by Anthony. But I seem to remember FF is sensitive to it also...?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Last year I killed some seedings with tenacity. I think it is too risky to use tenacity now. What about using tenacity as a foliar instead of quinclorac?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Wait...how much does Quin cost this year?


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## Robotussin (Oct 6, 2017)

Not sure exactly how much quinclorac costs this year but tenacity has worked well in the past for me on crabgrass as a post emergent. Since it sounds like you already have tenacity maybe spot treat with the tenacity as you see crabgrass develop? I agree with not applying tenacity as a pre-m on FF that young.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Keep in mind that FF has a lower tolerance for mesotrione. About a 1/3 lower rate than TTTF. Not sure how young FF would react with that.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Another thought...0.5 oz/A Tenacity rate without surfactant just to hold it for a couple of weeks? I've never gone that low, but recently bought some measuring spoons because the syringe from Syngenta that I've been putting up with for years is tough to use. Or maybe CVS has "real" syringes available...?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Keep in mind that FF has a lower tolerance for mesotrione. About a 1/3 lower rate than TTTF. Not sure how young FF would react with that.


You mean 1/3 the rate that TTTF can handle? Sometimes TTTF whitens at the 4oz rate, but it doesn't get killed. Say 3oz to be safe. 1/3 of that is 1oz. Cut that in half due to new grass. That's where I got 0.5oz from. I sprayed mature fine fescue at the 3oz rate without surfactant a few weeks ago and it didn't whiten at all, but the weeds certainly did. Last Summer, my old bottle of Tenacity got lumpy, so I accidentally mixed it too strong...probably 6.5oz rate, and killed a lot of fine fescue by accident while going after Nimblewill. I bought a new bottle since then, and won't be making that mistake again.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

Green said:


> Another thought...0.5 oz/A Tenacity rate without surfactant just to hold it for a couple of weeks? I've never gone that low, but recently bought some measuring spoons because the syringe from Syngenta that I've been putting up with for years is tough to use. Or maybe CVS has "real" syringes available...?


That is wayyyy below label rate and I'm betting your control would be minimal. I'm with @g-man on quinclorac. You can get generic on domyown for about 50 bucks


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I'm not basing this recommendation on a ton of experience, but I would skip the tenacity as well. Any time that I have used Tenacity, my FF bleached, and my TTTF did not. I can't say that the FF died (because I wasn't tracking it that closely), but I would certainly agree with this


Suburban Jungle Life said:


> FF has a lower tolerance for mesotrione


I would say that teacity is not worth the risk.
I believe that you can apply quinclorac only one month after FF germination.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I will wait another two weeks, and then spot treat with Dimension granular at the 3 month rate, provided everything goes ok. I'll take a look at the Quinclorac, but I think I'll be skipping that purchase. Can't buy everything!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It is $9 for 32oz concentrate. I spot treat with this and it last me years. I think it is 3oz to a gallon.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ortho-Weed-B-Gon-32-oz-Max-Plus-Crabgrass-Control-Concentrate-990601015/203686902

It as ~$6 a couple of weeks ago.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@g-man, I have used a similar three way with Quin to spot spray CG in years past, but in hindsight it was not the best use of money as it was ready to spray. It was a blue label. Have you had good results with this particular product by Ortho (Scotts)? Do you think the 2,4-D and Dicamba mess with the efficacy of the Quinclorac on CG at all? Maybe I should just get this for that price.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Yes I had good results with it. By the way it is $6 at lowes until 23May. https://www.lowes.com/pd/ORTHO-Weed-B-Gon-32-oz-Weed-Killer-Plus-Crabgrass-Control/4067588

This one works on nutsedge, but it has less quinclorac. http://www.spectracide.com/products/weed-and-grass-killers/lawn-weed-killers/spectracide-weed-stop-for-lawns-plus-crabgrass-killer-concentrate.aspx

Round up for Lawns is almost identical (to the 0.1%) to the spectricide one. https://www.roundup.com/en-us/products/lawn-weeds-bugs/roundup-lawns2-concentrate

I really wish they would sell a product without the dicamba. You have to be careful with roots when using dicamba.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

@Green this one I've used for 2 summers and is very effective on crabgrass. It has higher quinclorac than the ortho, and I'm pretty sure less dicamba (very hard to see the label claim numbers on phone). It lasts for quite a while too as I'm 2 summers in and have a little less half still.

GREEN LIGHT 7462 Wipe-Out Crabgrass Killer PLUS Concentrate - 1-Quart https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006MY5FHQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_ur2.AbJZ0PG9Y


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Thank you both for product suggestions. These combo products are actually very affordable.

@g-man. assuming Lowes will have that same price if you walk in, it's tempting to get a concentrate that will last along time, on sale for $6. And yeah, I'm not a fan of Dicamba either, after finding out it can damage trees if used too close.

@Jconnelly6b, even though the product you linked to is twice the cost and has to be ordered on Amazon, it's just as tempting, because it has more Quinclorac and less 2, 4-D and Dicamba per unit then the others, like the Ortho. I was able to find the label for it. Also, it's made by Valent, an excellent name in professional herbicides. I may just order this one, and also get some MSO from Amazon as surfactant at the same time for it, which is supposed to help with Summer weed control, when target broadleaf weeds are stressed, as well as aiding crabgrass uptake of herbicide better than non-ionic surfactant.


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