# Fertilization Schedule



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

By the looks of it, it appears most here are familiar with the "current/new" fertilization schedule now being promoted:
1. avoid late season Potassium applications (may promote snow mold)
2. Nitrogen applications beyond September are not necessary and provide no real benefit as the turf doesn't access any extra N beyond what is provided by a September feeding.

The "old/traditional" schedule was to apply a late season Potassium to harden off and strengthen the turf for winter survival and health and for a "high maintenance" lawn, apply N from late Summer through Fall with a pause to allow the turf to go into top-growth slow down, followed by a substantial winterization N application.

For a decade, I have used the "old/traditional", high maintenance schedule. Last year, I decided to try this new schedule. Has anyone else done a switch and if so, what has been your results? I realize our experience may be dependent on the region in which you are growing your cool season grass (KBG specifically) and although I'm most interested in results from those North of the the 39 lat., all experiences are welcome.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Ridgerunner said:


> By the looks of it, it appears most here are familiar with the "current/new" fertilization schedule now being promoted:


I'm not familiar with this new program. Who is promoting it? Do you have a link to the paper/study that reached these conclusions, I'm sure it's a very interesting read. It kind of makes sense with the weather getting very cold early fall up north.


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Crap. 
Gonna need Becky's help here on the N issue. It is being suggested based on U of Wisc. study on a lawn care radio program that she once posted on another site. Maybe she would be so kind as to post a link.
The potassium issue is also based on a study posted about 2 years ago on another (cough) site.
Which kind of raises the issue: Anyone here growing a Poa A. or Bentgrass lawn? Lol.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

I grew a Poa annua lawn in my back yard this year, though unintentionally lol
I recall seeing something about this new study last fall over on Mordor.


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

To be honest, Becky made me aware of the Potassium issue also and pointed out the study referred to elsewhere. I just can't find the links again.  It may have been the same pod-cast/radio show?


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

I dug up some of the links:

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/46/11/1545.full.pdf

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/turfnet/2015/10/05/frankly-speaking-with-doug-soldat-smart-fertilization-for-smart-turf-managers

http://www.golfdom.com/rethinking-fall-soluble-nitrogen-fertilization-of-cool-season-grasses/

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/46/11/1545.full

http://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/golfd/article/2012nov33.pdf


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Thanks.
I'm not sure, but I think this is the one regarding potassium :
www.stitcher.com/podcast/turfnet-radio/e/frank-chats-clint-mattox-pink-snow-mold-doug-soldat-47986720


----------



## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

I've heard of this, but have no experience with "the new way". But I can say the old way worked great so I'm not sure what the agenda is here.. If it worked great, how are they arguing that it doesn't work?


----------



## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

I'm curious... Ridgerunner can you elaborate more on your "current/new" fertilizer schedule? What you apply and dates?


----------



## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Ok, here is the Frankly Speaking podcast I remembered from 2015, which is probably the same one J4 found:
http://www.turfnet.com/blog/4/entry-1021-dr-doug-soldat-late-season-nitrogen-management/
This should be of interest:
http://purdueturftips.blogspot.com/2014/11/is-it-too-late-to-apply-my-last.html
And I take you back to the article I linked to on root growth:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/tgtre/article/1996feb1a.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwilwJ_il9TTAhUI4yYKHekbAWYQFggfMAA&usg=AFQjCNEECNyFz9sqtCq-jrv4iUUlZhGgLA&sig2=Tm2-SworRClopjlhv9IFcQ/url
Late fall and winter is prime time for root growth. Dr. Soldat is questioning how effective uptake is in the late fall.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

GrassDaddy said:


> I've heard of this, but have no experience with "the new way". But I can say the old way worked great so I'm not sure what the agenda is here.. If it worked great, how are they arguing that it doesn't work?


I don't think they're arguing that it doesn't work, I think what they're arguing is that parts of it are unnecessary(e.g part of the nitrogen doesn't get used). It doesn't really affect me, because my growing window is different than up north, but you always have to be weary of hidden agendas. Sometimes a study comes out with no peer review, then 100 articles reference that one study, then you get lobbyists referencing "hundreds of scientific articles" supporting the position. That's kind of how it works nowadays. Anyway, the way to really tell is to try it and see what the results are - if you get the same results with less nitrogen, it make sense both from a financial and an environmental perspective to reduce input.


----------



## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Dave Moody did the potassium study:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://turf.unl.edu/turfinfo/Fall%2520Fertilization.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwi9mLLXlYTUAhXE6CYKHar3D6MQFgghMAI&usg=AFQjCNG671BQImOlu5H1qV0yg0czdo3b4A&sig2=tHHlDruYlM7gApY34-notg
There is probably more info out there but this is what I found quickly.


----------



## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

the potassium one I get, but the nitrogen one I'm still not sure about.. I mean its not like its a 10x app either, winterizers are just an app of N timed right.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Sounds like Ridgerunner may be the one holding all the good info since he's actually tried it


----------



## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> Sometimes a study comes out with no peer review, then 100 articles reference that one study, then you get lobbyists referencing "hundreds of scientific articles" supporting the position. That's kind of how it works nowadays.


Very true and astute. Reminds me of _"97% of climate scientists agree" _ploy.

I'm all for less applications though, mainly because I'm a cheapskate. I also like the idea of doing a personal test and seeing what happens. OSUturfman has been shouted down and had posts censored (not on this site) for suggesting "less is more" and "more isn't always better" when it comes to certain applications like Milo, etc.


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

I can't figure out how to do multi-quotes, so I'll just do separate replies. Thanks for all of the feed back, all.
And Becky, I knew you'd come through.


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

GrassDaddy said:


> I've heard of this, but have no experience with "the new way". But I can say the old way worked great so I'm not sure what the agenda is here.. If it worked great, how are they arguing that it doesn't work?


j4c11 beat me to this on the N issue. Studies apparently show that the extra N after October isn't being utilized or more specifically only 10-20% is being taken by the turf.
The potassium issue is that excess soil K levels (presumably created by a late Fall K app has rexulted in higher incidence of snow mold on Poa A and Bentgrass.


----------



## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

I'm using a desktop, but the easiest way to multi-quote is to use the "Full Editor and Preview". Doing so will show previous replies in the thread down below the text entry box. There is a quote button in each reply and you can click it to add that quoted reply to your reply.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Ridgerunner said:


> Studies apparently show that the extra N after October isn't being utilized or more specifically only 10-20% is being taken by the turf.


Let me make sure I understand this correctly, are you saying that even though there is excess nitrogen in the soil, the grass is able to regulate its intake of nutrients and only take in what it wants/needs?


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

ericgautier said:


> I'm curious... Ridgerunner can you elaborate more on your "current/new" fertilizer schedule? What you apply and dates?


The "new schedule that I used last year was 1#N June 1, 1# N August 15ish and 1# N, P and K on September 15. About 2 1/2# less N annual and 3# N less after September than my "old" traditional schedule. Also No K after September vs. the "old" schedule

"Old" schedule used years Prior, I would do 1/2# N, P and K early to mid May, 1# N June 1, 1# N September 1, 1# N, P and K October 1, and 2# N mid to late November as the winterizer.


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

GrassDaddy said:


> the potassium one I get, but the nitrogen one I'm still not sure about.. I mean its not like its a 10x app either, winterizers are just an app of N timed right.


To be honest, I don't get the Potassium one for most cool season grasses. I've never had a snow issue even when I've used two late season apps of triple NPK for two of my late Fall feedings. Nor have I every seen an uptick on any board (or any university site) where people with cool season grasses who applied the late K feeding started reporting snow mold. Of course, I haven't seen a lot of homeowners growing Poa A or Bentgrass lawn and my personal experience is limited to Ohio.


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

dfw_pilot said:


> j4c11 said:
> 
> 
> > Sometimes a study comes out with no peer review, then 100 articles reference that one study, then you get lobbyists referencing "hundreds of scientific articles" supporting the position. That's kind of how it works nowadays.
> ...


I would like to see OSUturfman and Billy drop in so we could freely pick their brains without a pre-emptive pre-emergent.


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

dfw_pilot said:


> I'm using a desktop, but the easiest way to multi-quote is to use the "Full Editor and Preview". Doing so will show previous replies in the thread down below the text entry box. There is a quote button in each reply and you can click it to add that quoted reply to your reply.


Thanks, I'll try that next time.


----------



## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Ridgerunner said:


> dfw_pilot said:
> 
> 
> > j4c11 said:
> ...


Hahaha, amen. :lol:


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> Ridgerunner said:
> 
> 
> > Studies apparently show that the extra N after October isn't being utilized or more specifically only 10-20% is being taken by the turf.
> ...





j4c11 said:


> My understanding is that it is likely due to reduced turf activity because of lower evapo-transpiration rates and/or the turf's natural circadian cycle (which may or may not be triggered by ET).
> 
> Sounds like Ridgerunner may be the one holding all the good info since he's actually tried it


Keep in mind that these studies are directed at the needs of golf course managers and the standard is "not poorly performing turf."
My experience, on an elite KBG lawn in Ohio:
I must admit that I would not judge my lawn to appear "poorly performing" this Spring. Color was good, probably half a shade less dark than prior years. I had to start mowing as early as any prior year. The turf adequately filled in bare spots from prior year drought and even over the crop of rocks that still have a soil cover, although the rate of fill in may be a touch slower than I have previously seen.
However, the turf is not growing anywhere near as robustly as prior years (maybe a good thing for those who don't like to mow), and most disappointing, the lawn is over-all thinner. It is not the unnatural thick lush carpet it always had been. That is an unacceptable outcome by MY standards. IMO, for a lawn nut's standard of quality, I'd advise against reducing the amount of late Fall N apps. It may mean only 10 to 20% increase in Fall N uptake or maybe some of it sticks around for early Spring uptake. Whichever, whatever, it appears to make a dramatic difference based on My standards.


----------



## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Perhaps it would be good to do a late fall nitrogen fertilization but with less nitrogen than before. The issue is there is less uptake so there is leaching (adding to environmental problems). So maybe just a smaller amount would allow the grass to take in what it's capable of at that time and there would be less leaching.

I'm not finding much more on the potassium issue. It seems to be linked just to snow mold so people who don't have snow mold anyway would not be affected. "No potassium after September" was one of the things Andy taught me. Do no harm was his maxim and since potassium could be applied at other times, why take the chance if studies indicated snow mold problems. I found a piece aimed at golf courses recommending May as a good month for potassium, when needed, as it helps with drought stress.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://turf.unl.edu/turfinfo/Fall%2520Fertilization.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwi9mLLXlYTUAhXE6CYKHar3D6MQFgghMAI&usg=AFQjCNG671BQImOlu5H1qV0yg0czdo3b4A&sig2=tHHlDruYlM7gApY34-notg


----------

