# kelp 4 less mix rate



## kolbasz

Was watching @wardconnor and his latest video.

He is applying https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/powder-extreme-blend/]kelp 4 less extreme blend in the video he measures 57g per 5 gallons (of each 5 gallons going into his 20 gallons for 20k), is this to say the measurement is roughly 11.4g/M?

Is humic acid good for everyone? He mentions the benefit on hard soil and since I have a lot of clay, I thought that qualifies as hard. However, being clear across the country also means maybe it is not something I should and can use.


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## wardconnor

1 lb per acre is the mix rate. It's good for everyone.

Same stuff basically with some variation as the stuff green county fertilizer is selling.

As a disclaimer.... I WILL be using the green county fertilizer products at some point in time. I would like to try them out.


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## kolbasz

wardconnor said:


> 1 lb per acre is the mix rate. It's good for everyone.
> 
> Same stuff basically with some variation as the stuff green county fertilizer is selling.
> 
> As a disclaimer.... I WILL be using the green county fertilizer products at some point in time. I would like to try them out.


Thanks. I like the idea of the water soluble, you can put 8 products at once as opposed to what is needed with granular products.


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## kevreh

kolbasz said:


> Was watching @wardconnor and his latest video.
> 
> He is applying https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/powder-extreme-blend/]kelp 4 less extreme blend in the video he measures 57g per 5 gallons (of each 5 gallons going into his 20 gallons for 20k), is this to say the measurement is roughly 11.4g/M?
> 
> Is humic acid good for everyone? He mentions the benefit on hard soil and since I have a lot of clay, I thought that qualifies as hard. However, being clear across the country also means maybe it is not something I should and can use.


In terms of clay, check out Petes videos on youtube under the channel "gci turf services". He's in NC and has a lot of clay soil down there. He really advocates the use of humics (and more specifically the green county stuff he sells). The humics help loosen things up to promote root growth. He can take a 2-3' rod and somewhat easily drive it into the ground. Also says these humics (and fulvics) help with summer stress.


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## Pete1313

wardconnor said:


> 1 lb per acre is the mix rate. It's good for everyone.


How did you come up with the mix rate? The kelp4less mix instructions are a little fuzzy and geared more for plants. I spray the kelp4less HA and kelp products and used a commercial HA product for reference and a VA Tech article suggesting a HA:Seaweed ratio of 5:2.
Anyway, I came up with 5.25-10.5 oz/acre of HA and 2.1-4.2 oz/acre of kelp. Mixed together they are 7.35-14.7 oz/acre and your rate of 1 lb/acre seems right in line with what I came up with. I like that the extreme blend also has fulvic and amino acids and might consider switching to it after my supply runs out. How frequent are you thinking of applying?


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## wardconnor

Pete1313 said:


> wardconnor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 lb per acre is the mix rate. It's good for everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> How did you come up with the mix rate? The kelp4less mix instructions are a little fuzzy and geared more for plants. I spray the kelp4less HA and kelp products and used a commercial HA product for reference and a VA Tech article suggesting a HA:Seaweed ratio of 5:2.
> Anyway, I came up with 5.25-10.5 oz/acre of HA and 2.1-4.2 oz/acre of kelp. Mixed together they are 7.35-14.7 oz/acre and your rate of 1 lb/acre seems right in line with what I came up with. I like that the extreme blend also has fulvic and amino acids and might consider switching to it after my supply runs out. How frequent are you thinking of applying?
Click to expand...

I talked to Brandon at Kelp4less and he told me. That rate was also recommend to me by another commercial applicator who has applied it.

I would like to apply it like every 3 weeks or slightly a little more. Depending on my energy level and if I run out of steam. I have NO idea if this is too much or too little so please advise me if it is too much.


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## Pete1313

I don't think it's too little. Is it too much? I don't know either. I used a product (Black Earth dry soluble 80) as reference when coming up with my numbers for HA of 5.25-10.5 oz/acre. http://www.norganics.com/label/DS 80 ORGANIC Product Page_May 2013_LR.pdf It suggested 4-6 applications throughout the growing season. I am planning on using the lesser rate I came up with (5.25 oz/acre HA + 2.1 oz/acre kelp) but spraying with my primo/FAS apps which will be on a GDD timed interval (every 2-3 weeks). So since I'm spraying more frequently and probably 10-12 times this year, if I used the extreme blend I might use an 8 oz/acre rate.

All my thinking is based off of another product and some articles, so I would be curious what Brandon or the commercial applicator you referenced would suggest for a spray interval.


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## LawnNerd

I purchased some HA on the 13th, and it got lost (it was a Friday)... Go figure...

Well i called them on the 24th amd they we're very apologetic, and rushed my order. I got it on the 26th, with a lb of their extreme blend thrown in!

Im planning on using the extreme blend monthly right now, unless if anyone knows thats too frequent. I'm going to space the extreme blend apps 2 week off the HA apps and do each monthly. Im thinking low rates for both since that'll be a lot of HA.


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## 7474

How frequently are people using the K4L humic/fulvic/kelp blend?

K4L was advising 1tsp/gallon/1,000 weekly?

I'm all for it if that helps the lawn.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

I use the k4l humic/fulvic/kelp mix at 10g/M, every time I fert, which is once a month. I have found that it does yellow the grass if sprayed and not irrigated after in temps above 90. FYI. With some rain a week later, the grass turned green again.


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## 7474

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> I use the k4l humic/fulvic/kelp mix at 10g/M, every time I fert, which is once a month. I have found that it does yellow the grass if sprayed and not irrigated after in temps above 90. FYI. With some rain a week later, the grass turned green again.


Thanks for the reply/info.

Do you find the product to be beneficial? Or, it's cheap (or was) so why not?


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## Suburban Jungle Life

7474 said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> I use the k4l humic/fulvic/kelp mix at 10g/M, every time I fert, which is once a month. I have found that it does yellow the grass if sprayed and not irrigated after in temps above 90. FYI. With some rain a week later, the grass turned green again.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply/info.
> 
> Do you find the product to be beneficial? Or, it's cheap (or was) so why not?
Click to expand...

thegrassfactor has seen great results with RGS. I was looking for a lower cost alternative with the hopes it would be similar with results as well. I don't maintain acres like Matt does and nor do I have years of experience to see what the difference a change in a program can bring. I figured for the cost, if he has great results and the science behind it backs it up, why not try it? If you have a large lawn to maintain, then maybe try this on a small portion as a comparison without changing anything else and maybe on another small portion, use this product with a reduced N rate to see the difference between all 3 areas. If the humates (humic/fulvic) both chelate and increase availability of nutrients in the soil as well as extend release of nutrients (sprayed when applying NPK) then that's a great thing. Also, kelp has many minerals and is overall good for plant health. I view this as icing on the cake. If you have a sparse lawn or a salad bar, then I wouldn't bother. Weed control and a thick stand of turf would be my first concerns and then proper fert. This is a low cost addition to the fert and I'm seeing great results. If the cost gets too high, then I might reconsider it or do a test with half of the grass without it to see if there is any noticeable difference. Until then, it isn't cost prohibitive.

Here is my cost breakdown.
I purchased 5 lb for $55.
5 lb is 2267.96g
I use it at 10g/M
I apply it to 10M
I apply it 6 times a year.
That's enough to apply it for 3.75 years.
It costs $0.24 per M
That's $2.43 per application over 10M
It costs $14.55 per year to apply.
Comparing that to the cost of other products such as herbicides, fungicides, and grass seed this is cheap.

I'm always hunting for deals and now that this has gone up, that stinks. They do offer sales periodically so I would keep on their mailing list and wait for a sale.


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## 7474

@Suburban Jungle Life 
Thanks for the detailed info. I am of the same thought....icing on the cake. The cost of the N-Ext products is more than I want to spend.

I purchased also for $55 but the price has now increased to $80 for the 5#.

Thanks again for your reply and contributions across this site.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

7474 said:


> @Suburban Jungle Life
> Thanks for the detailed info. I am of the same thought....icing on the cake. The cost of the N-Ext products is more than I want to spend.
> 
> I purchased also for $55 but the price has now increased to $80 for the 5#.
> 
> Thanks again for your reply and contributions across this site.


 :thumbsup:


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## XiolaOne

Best is what k4l told me the strength was:

At 1 pound per gallon it will make a 6% humic, 3% fulvic, 12% amino acid solution

Now that is the concentrate. Once you dilute it, say 5oz per gallon of water in your tank, what is the %?

What is the % at 10g of powder straight into your tank at 1 gallon?

They are not very clear on their mixing rates, application rates and they don't officially list the % of how strong it is


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## Suburban Jungle Life

XiolaOne said:


> Best is what k4l told me the strength was:
> 
> At 1 pound per gallon it will make a 6% humic, 3% fulvic, 12% amino acid solution
> 
> Now that is the concentrate. Once you dilute it, say 5oz per gallon of water in your tank, what is the %?
> 
> What is the % at 10g of powder straight into your tank at 1 gallon?
> 
> They are not very clear on their mixing rates, application rates and they don't officially list the % of how strong it is


As you said, 1 lb per gallon will make 6% humic, 3% fulvic. This is the same contents in a bottle of RGS from GCF. I am using their applications rates of 3oz/M. I converted that to dry weight so I don't have to keep a mixed concentrate.

128 oz of RGS at a spray rate of 3oz/M so 128/3=42.6667
That is 42.6667 applications (M) per gallon of RGS.
1 lb of K4L is 453.92 g so 453.92/42.6667=10.63 g
That is 10.63 g per application (M)
I rounded down to 10 g /M so it's easier to remember and close enough.
I didn't calculate the % concentration but does that matter? This calc should be equivalent to using RGS at their recommended rates.

I find that K4L isn't geared toward turf but more toward the home/organic/hydroponics grower for crops. Their recommendation of weekly application seems excessive to me. Sure you can apply at their recommended rates but then you have to buy a lot more of it... That's good for them... I use RGS as the basis for my calc since they are focused on turf and their rates are labeled for turf application. Also, it's easy to compare when one of the pros said they sprayed RGS at 9oz/M, then that is the K4L humic/fulvic/kelp at 30g/M.

Maybe we should call the K4L humic/fulvic/kelp mix, K4L HFK, since they have so many different products.


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## cfinden

@Suburban Jungle Life I have a stupid question. What is the "/M" in your calculations? Like spraying RGS at 9oz/M, what is the M?


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## g-man

M is the turf industry standard for ksqft. It is used to avoid using K alone since K also means potassium. M =1000 in Roman numerals.


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## cfinden

@g-man great thank you!

Going forward I'll use M instead of K.


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## g-man

I try to use ksqft to avoid confusion, but I prefer the M since it is less typing.


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## 7474

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> XiolaOne said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best is what k4l told me the strength was:
> 
> At 1 pound per gallon it will make a 6% humic, 3% fulvic, 12% amino acid solution
> 
> Now that is the concentrate. Once you dilute it, say 5oz per gallon of water in your tank, what is the %?
> 
> What is the % at 10g of powder straight into your tank at 1 gallon?
> 
> They are not very clear on their mixing rates, application rates and they don't officially list the % of how strong it is
> 
> 
> 
> As you said, 1 lb per gallon will make 6% humic, 3% fulvic. This is the same contents in a bottle of RGS from GCF. I am using their applications rates of 3oz/M. I converted that to dry weight so I don't have to keep a mixed concentrate.
> 
> 128 oz of RGS at a spray rate of 3oz/M so 128/3=42.6667
> That is 42.6667 applications (M) per gallon of RGS.
> 1 lb of K4L is 453.92 g so 453.92/42.6667=10.63 g
> That is 10.63 g per application (M)
> I rounded down to 10 g /M so it's easier to remember and close enough.
> I didn't calculate the % concentration but does that matter? This calc should be equivalent to using RGS at their recommended rates.
> 
> I find that K4L isn't geared toward turf but more toward the home/organic/hydroponics grower for crops. Their recommendation of weekly application seems excessive to me. Sure you can apply at their recommended rates but then you have to buy a lot more of it... That's good for them... I use RGS as the basis for my calc since they are focused on turf and their rates are labeled for turf application. Also, it's easy to compare when one of the pros said they sprayed RGS at 9oz/M, then that is the K4L humic/fulvic/kelp at 30g/M.
> 
> Maybe we should call the K4L humic/fulvic/kelp mix, K4L HFK, since they have so many different products.
Click to expand...

What do you apply this with? I am using a Chapin 24v backpack and find a lot of clogging at the filter in the wand.

I was thinking of making a concentrate and allowing it to sit to possibly improve solubility instead of making it on the spot when applying.

With this thinking to make a concentrate and using 8oz of concentrate per gallon of spray to achieve the 10.63g/M.....

10.63g/8oz of concentrate
170g/gallon of concentrate
12 tablespoons/gallon concentrate
this would yield (16) 8oz concentrates or 16M

Any thoughts/feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

7474 said:


> What do you apply this with? I am using a Chapin 24v backpack and find a lot of clogging at the filter in the wand.
> 
> I was thinking of making a concentrate and allowing it to sit to possibly improve solubility instead of making it on the spot when applying.
> 
> With this thinking to make a concentrate and using 8oz of concentrate per gallon of spray to achieve the 10.63g/M.....
> 
> 10.63g/8oz of concentrate
> 170g/gallon of concentrate
> 12 tablespoons/gallon concentrate
> this would yield (16) 8oz concentrates or 16M
> 
> Any thoughts/feedback would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.


I guess I mix it for longer? I shake my sprayer. If I really need to dissolve something hard, I put it in a 5 gal bucket first and use a paint mixer on a drill for a minute. I haven't had to do that with the K4L product. When I made a concentrate, I didn't have any clogging problems. I am using a pump sprayer with a coarse fan tip.


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## 7474

> I guess I mix it for longer? I shake my sprayer. If I really need to dissolve something hard, I put it in a 5 gal bucket first and use a paint mixer on a drill for a minute. I haven't had to do that with the K4L product. When I made a concentrate, I didn't have any clogging problems. I am using a pump sprayer with a coarse fan tip.


I do the same with the 5 gal bucket and the paint mixer. 4 gal water and 3 tablespoons (~43g) for K4L. I mix for at least 3 minutes at almost full speed. I have used a red turbo teejet, red turbo twinjet and red XR 110* fan tip.

Had to remove the wand filter and scrub with a toothbrush last night in order to return flow to normal. Filter was caked in black particles.

I store the product in a screw top container sealed with a layer of plastic between the lid and container but the product is always hard when opening. I actually use the paint mixer to break up the product back into a powder before using.


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## Drewmey

7474 said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> XiolaOne said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best is what k4l told me the strength was:
> 
> At 1 pound per gallon it will make a 6% humic, 3% fulvic, 12% amino acid solution
> 
> Now that is the concentrate. Once you dilute it, say 5oz per gallon of water in your tank, what is the %?
> 
> What is the % at 10g of powder straight into your tank at 1 gallon?
> 
> They are not very clear on their mixing rates, application rates and they don't officially list the % of how strong it is
> 
> 
> 
> As you said, 1 lb per gallon will make 6% humic, 3% fulvic. This is the same contents in a bottle of RGS from GCF. I am using their applications rates of 3oz/M. I converted that to dry weight so I don't have to keep a mixed concentrate.
> 
> 128 oz of RGS at a spray rate of 3oz/M so 128/3=42.6667
> That is 42.6667 applications (M) per gallon of RGS.
> 1 lb of K4L is 453.92 g so 453.92/42.6667=10.63 g
> That is 10.63 g per application (M)
> I rounded down to 10 g /M so it's easier to remember and close enough.
> I didn't calculate the % concentration but does that matter? This calc should be equivalent to using RGS at their recommended rates.
> 
> I find that K4L isn't geared toward turf but more toward the home/organic/hydroponics grower for crops. Their recommendation of weekly application seems excessive to me. Sure you can apply at their recommended rates but then you have to buy a lot more of it... That's good for them... I use RGS as the basis for my calc since they are focused on turf and their rates are labeled for turf application. Also, it's easy to compare when one of the pros said they sprayed RGS at 9oz/M, then that is the K4L humic/fulvic/kelp at 30g/M.
> 
> Maybe we should call the K4L humic/fulvic/kelp mix, K4L HFK, since they have so many different products.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you apply this with? I am using a Chapin 24v backpack and find a lot of clogging at the filter in the wand.
> 
> I was thinking of making a concentrate and allowing it to sit to possibly improve solubility instead of making it on the spot when applying.
> 
> With this thinking to make a concentrate and using 8oz of concentrate per gallon of spray to achieve the 10.63g/M.....
> 
> 10.63g/8oz of concentrate
> 170g/gallon of concentrate
> 12 tablespoons/gallon concentrate
> this would yield (16) 8oz concentrates or 16M
> 
> Any thoughts/feedback would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...

The clogging is from the humic. K4L's humic is only 98% soluble according to their MSDS. The humic from Earthworks is 99.99% soluble according to the data sheet they gave me. I'm thinking of mixing their humic with the fulvic and Kelp from K4L (which are listed as 100% soluble).


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## samjonester

I've got a bucket that I've marked off for measuring sprayer mixes. I mix Kelp4Less extreme in that. It has the same problem with some small humic specs not dissolving.

After mixing in the bucket, I will let things settle, then dump into my sprayer. This leaves the undissolved crud at the bottom. of my bucket. If it's just K4L, I'll just dump the leftovers on whatever plant I feel like giving some extra love that day. If I've got other stuff in the mix then I just dump it where I clean out my sprayer after use.

I've been applying it at 10 grams / M. Every other week-ish on my reno, and when I fertilize or happen to be spraying something else (like PGR) for the rest of the yard. It's so cheap that I don't feel bad just spraying it whenever I feel like.

Is it annoying to deal with the insoluble crud at the bottom of a bucket? Yes... but it was much cheaper than an order of RGS when I didn't know if humic/fulvic/kelp was worth the money. I also get a good percentage of amino acids in the extreme blend, which feels good in an unscientific way. I kind of think the aminos (which come with a low does of foliarly applied N) have contributed to an immediate response when I spray it.

When I run out, I'm on the fence about whether I will get more K4L or get something like the N-Ext Bio-stimulant pack. I'm done with Milo, and think this is a better way to feed my soil. I want to dial down and be more targetted with Nitrogen. Breaking down the cost per app at 10g / M, K4L isn't _that_ much cheaper than RGS at 3 oz / M. It would be nice to use a product that was designed to be tank stable and not clog spray nozzles for pros. It was really just the initial investment that scared me away. Maybe Carbon-X will change my mind about an "all in one" (like Milo is often touted), but I don't know when I'll be able to get it as a DIY homeowner with a small lot.


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## Drewmey

samjonester said:


> Breaking down the cost per app at 10g / M, K4L isn't _that_ much cheaper than RGS at 3 oz / M.


I *am not *trying to say that RGS isn't worth it or that they are unfairly pricing a product. But when buying soluble powders, I can get 7.5 lbs of active ingredient vs. the 5.22 lbs of active ingredient in RGS...for *$20 less!* It is actually approaching twice as expensive (.0795 lbs/$ vs. .0454 lbs/$) at 1.75x the cost per pound. So until I can understand if there is a difference in quality of ingredients, I am fine taking the extra time to mix some of this stuff myself. I think the pricing difference is substantial but not huge. In my opinion it is quite a bit cheaper and also gives a lot more control with mixing different ratios (can reduce the Kelp quantity when it is really hot, etc.) I wouldn't spend that extra money on fertilizer, herbicide, etc for a different brand unless I can understand why it is better. I can see buying the RGS simply for the ease of not having to do the math or mixing though. 


EDIT: Also, what's your opinion on Amino Acids for a lawn? I haven't read much about it but you are also not the first person I have heard say that they think there could be benefits.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

@7474 I guess you aren't alone. Maybe try a concentrate and leave it there to sit. Shake it up each time you use it. I'm surprised this is such a wide spread problem though.


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## samjonester

Drewmey said:


> samjonester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Breaking down the cost per app at 10g / M, K4L isn't _that_ much cheaper than RGS at 3 oz / M.
> 
> 
> 
> I *am not *trying to say that RGS isn't worth it or that they are unfairly pricing a product. But when buying soluble powders, I can get 7.5 lbs of active ingredient vs. the 5.22 lbs of active ingredient in RGS...for *$20 less!* It is actually approaching twice as expensive (.0795 lbs/$ vs. .0454 lbs/$) at 1.75x the cost per pound.
Click to expand...

Good point! I didn't really explain what I meant by that. I was comparing the actual cost per application, not the unit cost of the material. I don't feel much difference in my budget with a difference of a couple dollars per application. Over a long period of time, you're right, the percentage difference looks substantial, or if I was covering a lot more sq ft than my small suburban lot, it would feel more substantial. I'm thinking about spending extra for the convenience in buying, mixing, spraying. I also like the idea of buying their stuff as a nod to the work Green County is doing to help lower the impact of nitrogen runoff especially in places like Florida. Maybe it's like buying a prius, though, meaning lowing carbon emissions from residential vehicles addresses such a small percentage of pollution that it's basically a waste of money. I'm not sure if lawncare creates a large enough percentage of the runoff problem compared to golf courses and farms to actually make a difference in the grand scheme.



Drewmey said:


> samjonester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Breaking down the cost per app at 10g / M, K4L isn't _that_ much cheaper than RGS at 3 oz / M.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Also, what's your opinion on Amino Acids for a lawn? I haven't read much about it but you are also not the first person I have heard say that they think there could be benefits.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I don't really know. Amino acids are good for plants in general (for creating proteins), but they do also come from other environmental sources in a lawn vs a hydroponic farm (which seems like K4L's target market). I just thought, hey why not, it's about the same price as just humic/fulvic/kelp. I don't have a good scientific way to determine whether _just_ the humic/fulvic/kelp would have given me the same response, or even a better one in my reno. Maybe it's a placebo, maybe not. I try to be scientific about what I put down, but at the same time also realize that it's a lawn and I might just be giving it organic bananas rather than conventional bananas and doing it just to feel good. :shrug: I'm also fairly new to active lawn care, and am still forming opinions and experience to drive my decisions, too.

I guess what this turned into... try different things and make a purposeful decision each time. If you treat it like an experiment, it doesn't matter if it wasn't the _best_ thing you could have done because you learned from it and can do something else next time.


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## 7474

I mixed 2 gallons of concentrate using 6 tablespoons per gallon for 5.4g/M (using 8oz concentrate per gallon application).

I actually used 16oz of concentrate per gallon of application for 10.8g/M. The concentrate was a bit frothy but I got 16 gallons of spray application (16 - 16oz concentrates)

I mixed the concentrate up a week prior and used a paint mixer to mix it frequently. I also removed the wand filter from my Chapin.

Overall, it was a significant improvement without any problems. No loss of volume or pressure and no sediment in either the concentrate bucket or the sprayer tank.

I currently have a 3 gallon bucket of concentrate mixed with 12 tablespoons (3/4 cup) per gallon. This will give (48) 8oz concentrates with 10.8g/M. This mixture is a lot less frothy than the 2 gallon concentrate I made last week.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

This past weekend, I sprayed 10g in 0.5gal/M and it was just fine. Poured the powder in, added water, swirled the mix around in my sprayer and applied. I cleaned the filter before but I need to check it to see if it caught anything. I'll look when I get home.


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## 7474

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> This past weekend, I sprayed 10g in 0.5gal/M and it was just fine. Poured the powder in, added water, swirled the mix around in my sprayer and applied. I cleaned the filter before but I need to check it to see if it caught anything. I'll look when I get home.


Well, I wish I knew what I was doing wrong.


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## 7474

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> This past weekend, I sprayed 10g in 0.5gal/M and it was just fine. Poured the powder in, added water, swirled the mix around in my sprayer and applied. I cleaned the filter before but I need to check it to see if it caught anything. I'll look when I get home.


So, 80g per 4 gallon backpack sprayer? That's ~5.5 tablespoons. I was clogging at 3 tablespoons per 4 gallons.

Like I said, I wish I knew what I was doing wrong.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

7474 said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> This past weekend, I sprayed 10g in 0.5gal/M and it was just fine. Poured the powder in, added water, swirled the mix around in my sprayer and applied. I cleaned the filter before but I need to check it to see if it caught anything. I'll look when I get home.
> 
> 
> 
> So, 80g per 4 gallon backpack sprayer? That's ~5.5 tablespoons. I was clogging at 3 tablespoons per 4 gallons.
> 
> Like I said, I wish I knew what I was doing wrong.
Click to expand...

Maybe my sprayer has a more coarse filter? I'm using a pump sprayer. I'll check the filter but it might just have bigger holes than yours. That, or I have an older mix? I bought it before GCF products were available for homeowners.

Are you getting goopy stuff or hard pieces getting stuck in the filter? Is it a cone style filter?


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## 7474

Nothing goopy, just hard pieces.

My filters are the black one in the backpack, the white poly one is in the wand. The wand filter is the one that is clogging.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

I checked the filter and I had maybe 5 hard black grains. They were small but did get caught in the filter. My filter is about 3" long so it would be a long time if I didn't clean it before I had any clogging problems. Mine looks like the white one in top right of your pic except longer. I'm surprised you are catching so much material that it reduces flow. My filter probably has larger holes but since I don't have a pump, maybe it doesn't matter for me and it is just to prevent chunks in the tip. With a pump, you probably don't want a larger piece passing through it in case it damages the pump. At your risk, you could remove the white piece... Another thought is to make a concentrate and let it sit for a bit to be sure whatever will, has dissolved. Then, strain it to remove the solids. Annoying but maybe K4L isn't the best choice next time due to this hassle. GCF products are all filtered so I haven't heard of this problem with their products except that their products can be thick at low dilution rates. Maybe try anderson's humic and the K4L kelp to make the next mix? I'm going to try that but just waiting for a kelp sale.


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## Drewmey

7474 said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> This past weekend, I sprayed 10g in 0.5gal/M and it was just fine. Poured the powder in, added water, swirled the mix around in my sprayer and applied. I cleaned the filter before but I need to check it to see if it caught anything. I'll look when I get home.
> 
> 
> 
> So, 80g per 4 gallon backpack sprayer? That's ~5.5 tablespoons. I was clogging at 3 tablespoons per 4 gallons.
> 
> Like I said, I wish I knew what I was doing wrong.
Click to expand...

I have tested with a couple different sprayers now. I got a clog with a cheap home depot pump sprayer that had *no* filter. The clog would always occur right at the very tip of the nozzle. I have had no clogs on a still cheap but nicer Roundup sprayer which has a more robust sprayer tip. The tip on the Home Depot one absolutely sucks haha. It feels and sprays like a toy, even when spraying straight water. Both low pressure and flow.

So I have a feeling that different quality sprayers are going to play some roll. I have also filtered with a small wire kitchen strainer and caught maybe two small particles when apply at 4 tsp per gallon per M, which is the application rate I am planning to use every 3-4 weeks.

My plan is to:
1. Use warm water to ensure as much is dissolved as possible.
2. Filter through a small kitchen strainer like this. https://www.amazon.com/Norpro-Stain...ocphy=9008312&hvtargid=pla-273908642829&psc=1when pouring into my tank sprayer.
3. Use a sprayer that isn't a super cheap nozzle and/or wand.
4. When possible mix the night before and put in the fridge (to make sure sea kelp doesn't go bad). I do not think this is necessary but I it obviously shouldn't hurt either.


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## g-man

Drewmey said:


> 4. When possible mix the night before and put in the fridge (to make sure sea kelp doesn't go bad). I do not think this is necessary but I it obviously shouldn't hurt either.


Hmm. Please properly label the container. I could just image someone thinking it is iced tea.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

g-man said:


> Drewmey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4. When possible mix the night before and put in the fridge (to make sure sea kelp doesn't go bad). I do not think this is necessary but I it obviously shouldn't hurt either.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. Please properly label the container. I could just image someone thinking it is iced tea.
Click to expand...

When my lady was a kid, she had GI problems and barfed all the time. She would just grab whatever was nearby for a container. One day, someone left a soda can on the counter and she used that but for some reason just left it there after. Her mom saw it later and thought someone left it out so she put it in the fridge. Later, her brother saw the soda in the fridge and decided to have some. He barfed too...


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## 7474

I am using a Chapin 24v sprayer with various teejet nozzles.

Removing the wand filter and mixing a concentrate seems to have eliminated any clogging and loss of pressure/volume.

Why do you need to refrigerate the concentrate? You mention to keep it from going bad but you have already mixed it with warm water. Seems like that would have accelerated the process?

Does GCF require refrigeration of their RGS?


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## Suburban Jungle Life

I didn't refrigerate my concentrate. Just left it in the garage with 100 deg heat. It didn't smell very good though...


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## Drewmey

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> I didn't refrigerate my concentrate. Just left it in the garage with 100 deg heat. It didn't smell very good though...


@7474. This is why. I have no evidence as to whether it is bad (in terms of the product working) or just simply smells bad. I remember seeing a Youtube video from a Kelp4Less guy who said in the comments to store in the refrigerator if not using after several days. I think it has to do with the Sea Kelp. I also imagine that RGS has something in that other 88% of ingredients that prevents the sea kelp from going 'rotten' or whatever you want to call it. Not simply 88% water.

Once you do the math to determine the number of tsp/tbs that you need in order to get the weight that you want, I find it pretty easy to just mix it when you need it. I don't even weigh it anymore. I think it is pretty accepted that the application rate does not need to be precise with these products. For example, people have thrown out 3oz RGS to like 9oz RGS per thousand sf. I feel 4 tsp gets me close enough to 3ish oz of RGS when using the Kelp/Humic/Fulvic blend.

I guess I am saying, for me, the extra work of measuring it each time is better than wondering if the product is still valid/working as intended 6 months after I mix it (or having my wife complain about the smell!).

My basic calculations, essentially I have found that 4 tsp was close enough to .45oz (weight) that I am fine not weighing anymore:


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## Drewmey

g-man said:


> Drewmey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4. When possible mix the night before and put in the fridge (to make sure sea kelp doesn't go bad). I do not think this is necessary but I it obviously shouldn't hurt either.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. Please properly label the container. I could just image someone thinking it is iced tea.
Click to expand...

Maybe iced coffee. It always sort of smells like coffee to me.


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## O_Poole

I got a bag of tan powder from a turf @#*$& guy.. It's in a ziplock bag no label "top secret" 5lbs was $200.00 after calling kelpforless I did learn the smell I describe to them was Amino Acids.. So it does have Amino acids in it.

I asked this guy a few times what is this stuff he would only tell me the same stuff they spray at the Augusta National's.. I asked him again a few months later was told it's like Anderson Foltec Fortify 6-0-0 but in powder form.. I Asked him again this week what's the NPK of this powder because you said it's hot becare with it and he answered 12-0-6.. After reading this post that's the same NPK as K4L Extreme Blend But what I have does not have the dark specs in it?

If anyone has any idea what this powder maybe let me know please.. Thanks


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## Suburban Jungle Life

You could send a sample to a lab for analysis if you were curious to the exact contents.


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## O_Poole

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> You could send a sample to a lab for analysis if you were curious to the exact contents.


Yes sir I need to call and see what the cost would be.. Thanks


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## O_Poole

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> You could send a sample to a lab for analysis if you were curious to the exact contents.


@Suburban Jungle Life

I mailed it back.. Waiting on my 200.00 Refund now


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## gmorf33

Drewmey said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't refrigerate my concentrate. Just left it in the garage with 100 deg heat. It didn't smell very good though...
> 
> 
> 
> @7474. This is why. I have no evidence as to whether it is bad (in terms of the product working) or just simply smells bad. I remember seeing a Youtube video from a Kelp4Less guy who said in the comments to store in the refrigerator if not using after several days. I think it has to do with the Sea Kelp. I also imagine that RGS has something in that other 88% of ingredients that prevents the sea kelp from going 'rotten' or whatever you want to call it. Not simply 88% water.
> 
> Once you do the math to determine the number of tsp/tbs that you need in order to get the weight that you want, I find it pretty easy to just mix it when you need it. I don't even weigh it anymore. I think it is pretty accepted that the application rate does not need to be precise with these products. For example, people have thrown out 3oz RGS to like 9oz RGS per thousand sf. I feel 4 tsp gets me close enough to 3ish oz of RGS when using the Kelp/Humic/Fulvic blend.
> 
> I guess I am saying, for me, the extra work of measuring it each time is better than wondering if the product is still valid/working as intended 6 months after I mix it (or having my wife complain about the smell!).
> 
> My basic calculations, essentially I have found that 4 tsp was close enough to .45oz (weight) that I am fine not weighing anymore:
Click to expand...

So to make sure i'm following the maths and rates correctly here.. you mix 4 tsp per gal per 1000 SF of the KHF blend? So for a 5000 SF lawn you'd mix 4 tsp * 5 KHF (20 tsp) + 5 gal water ? These seems highly economical compared to most pre-mixed solutions


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## Drewmey

gmorf33 said:


> Drewmey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't refrigerate my concentrate. Just left it in the garage with 100 deg heat. It didn't smell very good though...
> 
> 
> 
> @7474. This is why. I have no evidence as to whether it is bad (in terms of the product working) or just simply smells bad. I remember seeing a Youtube video from a Kelp4Less guy who said in the comments to store in the refrigerator if not using after several days. I think it has to do with the Sea Kelp. I also imagine that RGS has something in that other 88% of ingredients that prevents the sea kelp from going 'rotten' or whatever you want to call it. Not simply 88% water.
> 
> Once you do the math to determine the number of tsp/tbs that you need in order to get the weight that you want, I find it pretty easy to just mix it when you need it. I don't even weigh it anymore. I think it is pretty accepted that the application rate does not need to be precise with these products. For example, people have thrown out 3oz RGS to like 9oz RGS per thousand sf. I feel 4 tsp gets me close enough to 3ish oz of RGS when using the Kelp/Humic/Fulvic blend.
> 
> I guess I am saying, for me, the extra work of measuring it each time is better than wondering if the product is still valid/working as intended 6 months after I mix it (or having my wife complain about the smell!).
> 
> My basic calculations, essentially I have found that 4 tsp was close enough to .45oz (weight) that I am fine not weighing anymore:
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So to make sure i'm following the maths and rates correctly here.. you mix 4 tsp per gal per 1000 SF of the KHF blend? So for a 5000 SF lawn you'd mix 4 tsp * 5 KHF (20 tsp) + 5 gal water ? These seems highly economical compared to most pre-mixed solutions
Click to expand...

Essentially yes. But I would recommend weighing, instead of the approximate volume I mentioned. So weigh out .45 oz x 5 instead of 3 tsp x 5. Much more accurate. Then once comfortable, switch to approximating like I mentioned.


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## OnlyMayo

Drewmey said:


> gmorf33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drewmey said:
> 
> 
> 
> @7474. This is why. I have no evidence as to whether it is bad (in terms of the product working) or just simply smells bad. I remember seeing a Youtube video from a Kelp4Less guy who said in the comments to store in the refrigerator if not using after several days. I think it has to do with the Sea Kelp. I also imagine that RGS has something in that other 88% of ingredients that prevents the sea kelp from going 'rotten' or whatever you want to call it. Not simply 88% water.
> 
> Once you do the math to determine the number of tsp/tbs that you need in order to get the weight that you want, I find it pretty easy to just mix it when you need it. I don't even weigh it anymore. I think it is pretty accepted that the application rate does not need to be precise with these products. For example, people have thrown out 3oz RGS to like 9oz RGS per thousand sf. I feel 4 tsp gets me close enough to 3ish oz of RGS when using the Kelp/Humic/Fulvic blend.
> 
> I guess I am saying, for me, the extra work of measuring it each time is better than wondering if the product is still valid/working as intended 6 months after I mix it (or having my wife complain about the smell!).
> 
> My basic calculations, essentially I have found that 4 tsp was close enough to .45oz (weight) that I am fine not weighing anymore:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So to make sure i'm following the maths and rates correctly here.. you mix 4 tsp per gal per 1000 SF of the KHF blend? So for a 5000 SF lawn you'd mix 4 tsp * 5 KHF (20 tsp) + 5 gal water ? These seems highly economical compared to most pre-mixed solutions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Essentially yes. But I would recommend weighing, instead of the approximate volume I mentioned. So weigh out .45 oz x 5 instead of 3 tsp x 5. Much more accurate. Then once comfortable, switch to approximating like I mentioned.
Click to expand...

@Drewmey I know this is an old post, worth a shot. I just ordered K4L new Green Lawn and Turf. From my understanding it is their extreme blend plus some extras. For hose end sprayer (what I have) it says 1 TBSP in the sprayer then set to 1-2 oz. Lawn application says 1-2 ounces(28-56 grams) per gallon per 1000.

I am new to all this, If I follow right to make a concentrate for my 20K yard, add 20 tbsp or oz? to 1 gallon, then spray evenly over the 20K? I contacted K4L, they told me 4 heaping tbsp to a gallon for a concentrate.. that math doesn't add up for my public education math...


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## mike_b

I put down 2lb per acre of the humic/fulvic/kelp. I mix 1lb into 25 gallons and that sprays about a half acre. I don't think there is much risk to going heavy with this stuff.


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## TShir23

OnlyMayo said:


> Drewmey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gmorf33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So to make sure i'm following the maths and rates correctly here.. you mix 4 tsp per gal per 1000 SF of the KHF blend? So for a 5000 SF lawn you'd mix 4 tsp * 5 KHF (20 tsp) + 5 gal water ? These seems highly economical compared to most pre-mixed solutions
> 
> 
> 
> Essentially yes. But I would recommend weighing, instead of the approximate volume I mentioned. So weigh out .45 oz x 5 instead of 3 tsp x 5. Much more accurate. Then once comfortable, switch to approximating like I mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @Drewmey I know this is an old post, worth a shot. I just ordered K4L new Green Lawn and Turf. From my understanding it is their extreme blend plus some extras. For hose end sprayer (what I have) it says 1 TBSP in the sprayer then set to 1-2 oz. Lawn application says 1-2 ounces(28-56 grams) per gallon per 1000.
> 
> I am new to all this, If I follow right to make a concentrate for my 20K yard, add 20 tbsp or oz? to 1 gallon, then spray evenly over the 20K? I contacted K4L, they told me 4 heaping tbsp to a gallon for a concentrate.. that math doesn't add up for my public education math...
Click to expand...

Check out Lawn Phix. He worked with kelp4less on this product. He as a website and a FB page also.


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## lawnphix

Hey... let me know if you have any questions about GL&T. It's 2 parts ExtremeBlend to 1 part Humic acid, iron sulfate and molasses powder. I make no money from them, it's just all their products that I used in the past, now conveniently packaged in one.

Here's some more info;

https://lawnphix.com/products/new-kelp4less-product-for-2020-green-lawn-turf/


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## theguybrarian

lawnphix said:


> Hey... let me know if you have any questions about GL&T. It's 2 parts ExtremeBlend to 1 part Humic acid, iron sulfate and molasses powder. I make no money from them, it's just all their products that I used in the past, now conveniently packaged in one.
> 
> Here's some more info;
> 
> https://lawnphix.com/products/new-kelp4less-product-for-2020-green-lawn-turf/


Is this worthwhile to use at seeding, or are any benefits negligible at that stage? I don't want to put something down for the sake of putting something down.


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## VALawnNoob

theguybrarian said:


> lawnphix said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey... let me know if you have any questions about GL&T. It's 2 parts ExtremeBlend to 1 part Humic acid, iron sulfate and molasses powder. I make no money from them, it's just all their products that I used in the past, now conveniently packaged in one.
> 
> Here's some more info;
> 
> https://lawnphix.com/products/new-kelp4less-product-for-2020-green-lawn-turf/
> 
> 
> 
> Is this worthwhile to use at seeding, or are any benefits negligible at that stage? I don't want to put something down for the sake of putting something down.
Click to expand...

It is possible that it works and does something. I used it last year and didn't really notice too much on its own. I still have a lot left and will go with heavier rate just to get rid of it this year. My OM and CEC both went up with a recent soil test but honestly I have mixed so many things that it could be any of those things. I personally believe my top dressing of CarbonPro G, Peat Moss and Leafgro after mechanical aeration contributed more to my soil improvement than anything else but it is possible K4L and NeXT did something as well.

Here's my soil test results if you want to check out that thread for b4 and after: https://thelawnforum.com/viewforum.php?f=24


----------



## theguybrarian

VALawnNoob said:


> theguybrarian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lawnphix said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey... let me know if you have any questions about GL&T. It's 2 parts ExtremeBlend to 1 part Humic acid, iron sulfate and molasses powder. I make no money from them, it's just all their products that I used in the past, now conveniently packaged in one.
> 
> Here's some more info;
> 
> https://lawnphix.com/products/new-kelp4less-product-for-2020-green-lawn-turf/
> 
> 
> 
> Is this worthwhile to use at seeding, or are any benefits negligible at that stage? I don't want to put something down for the sake of putting something down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is possible that it works and does something. I used it last year and didn't really notice too much on its own. I still have a lot left and will go with heavier rate just to get rid of it this year. My OM and CEC both went up with a recent soil test but honestly I have mixed so many things that it could be any of those things. I personally believe my top dressing of CarbonPro G, Peat Moss and Leafgro after mechanical aeration contributed more to my soil improvement than anything else but it is possible K4L and NeXT did something as well.
> 
> Here's my soil test results if you want to check out that thread for b4 and after: https://thelawnforum.com/viewforum.php?f=24
Click to expand...

Right on. Thanks for the feedback. I guess I'm just more curious than anything.


----------

