# Pros/Cons of PGR



## Philly_Gunner (Apr 23, 2019)

I'm currently maintaining ~ 26k of 419 with a reel and have never used PGR. Honestly, I'm a little intimidated by PGR and want to know the pros and cons from some of the more seasoned members. Thanks!


----------



## Theycallmemrr (May 16, 2019)

Pros: Thicker grass, greener grass, mow less, can keep a lower HOC.
Cons: Bronzing, turf damage takes longer to grow out. Added expense and labor.


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Pros
Slows vertical growth so you don't have to mow as often
Shortens the nodes so the turf grows tighter and more compact
Increases drought tolerance

Cons
You may get a little bronzing on your first app but not really a con
If you don't keep up with the GDD and reapply at the proper interval, you could get a surge of growth (rebound).
You have to be comfortable with spraying

In my opinion, there are no cons to PGR. During the summer you will be spraying about every 10-12 days. Some may think that is a con but it gives you plenty of opportunity to keep after your other applications that can be mixed in with the PGR (Bifen is one that I include every month with one of my PGR apps, soluble fertilizers is another if you want to spoon feed).


----------



## latitude36 (Mar 27, 2019)

Pro-I would add a lot less wear and tear on your mower which equates less back lapping etc. 
Con-None


----------



## NeVs (Aug 17, 2018)

Theycallmemrr said:


> Pros: Thicker grass, greener grass, mow less, can keep a lower HOC.
> Cons: Bronzing, turf damage takes longer to grow out. Added expense and labor.





Redtwin said:


> Pros
> Slows vertical growth so you don't have to mow as often
> Shortens the nodes so the turf grows tighter and more compact
> Increases drought tolerance
> ...


if it slows growth how does it result in a thicker lawn? does the grass end up putting more energy into sprouting new blades since the vertical growth is limited??


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

NeVs said:


> if it slows growth how does it result in a thicker lawn? does the grass end up putting more energy into sprouting new blades since the vertical growth is limited??


Exactly. Here are a couple slides from a presentation that covers the general plant growth regulator classes and how they work. 
http://www.stma.org/sites/stma/files/Conference/2013_Conference/Serensits_PGRs.pdf


----------



## JayGo (Jun 13, 2019)

I dig this question, @Philly_Gunner. I will be using PGR for the first time this year, but I still have some apprehension about using it.

1st: I don't mind mowing my 5k+ sq foot lawn.
2nd: it takes the same (if not more time) to prep mix and spray than it does to just mow.
3rd: no need in tracking GDD.
4th: PGR is expensive.

However, I keep reading all the hype that it makes turf more dense. Plus, folks like @Redtwin make a whole lot of sense when they say that you can just mix your PGR with any other ferts you're going to spray anyway (which is my situation).
I figure I should at least give it a shot now that I have a big boy sprayer.


----------



## burnhagw (Oct 17, 2019)

My yard got super thick with PGR, and I needed less fert and way less water. I barely had to water, while all my neighbors were watering like crazy. I had slight bronzing but I would spike my apps with liquid iron.


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

JayGo said:


> I dig this question, @Philly_Gunner. I will be using PGR for the first time this year, but I still have some apprehension about using it.
> 
> 1st: I don't mind mowing my 5k+ sq foot lawn.
> 2nd: it takes the same (if not more time) to prep mix and spray than it does to just mow.
> ...


Consider going at half-rate, with a second pass around the edges to minimize trimming at every mow... and you may never go back! 
Oh, and greenkeeperapp.com actually keeps track of when you need to apply for optimal performance... at worse it's another place to enter your application data. For ex, mine is 'expiring' today and it's showing that I'm at 45% suppression. Pretty dummy proof, this website.


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I used Greenkeeperapp.com as well. It is awesome for computing your GDD. I also use it to track my pre-em apps, fertilizer totals, and Bifen apps. @NeVs, it shortens the node length so it still grows, just shorter and tighter.

PGR is second only to reel mowing as far as "game changers" are concerned. It's the real deal!


----------



## Philly_Gunner (Apr 23, 2019)

Man, so much to consider. I always feel like I'm on top of things and then I read another post that has me like, "ooohh I need that!" Haha. Thanks for the replies and info so far.


----------



## ocean-front (Jun 21, 2020)

You will regret not jumping in the PGR pool!Follow @Redtwin advice and set up the greenskeeper app for ALL your fertilizer and herbicide apps.Marker dye is something that will helps with the stress of your first app and enjoy the effects PGR has on your lawn.


----------



## Robertw17 (May 7, 2020)

How does PGR affect shaded areas. I have some thin spots in my zeon from shade just wondering what it would do to those areas


----------



## rjw0283 (May 11, 2020)

Yup! It's awesome! I was only on it for about 7 weeks last year. I stopped so I could do an August level. But yes it's a game changer. It really changes the makeup of the grass blades. It was at around 2 weeks when you could see a difference. 
I'll be doing another level, but this year I plan to do it in late May. After the grass is through the sand I'm going on the PGR till season's end.


----------



## Rowdy (Apr 3, 2020)

Are there any alternatives to T-Nex that won't empty my kid's college fund?


----------



## NeVs (Aug 17, 2018)

Redtwin said:


> I used Greenkeeperapp.com as well. It is awesome for computing your GDD. I also use it to track my pre-em apps, fertilizer totals, and Bifen apps. @NeVs, it shortens the node length so it still grows, just shorter and tighter.
> 
> PGR is second only to reel mowing as far as "game changers" are concerned. It's the real deal!


I think I have a bottle of tnex that I never ended up using. Just like I have a flex 21 that I have never gotten around to rebuilding the cutting unit and start reeling lol. I have all the needed parts and a new reel, just need to get errr done...

Really need to stop procrastinating cause my zoysia has thinned out a lot. My rotary is butchering the grass ends and stressing the hell out of it.


----------



## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

JayGo said:


> I dig this question, @Philly_Gunner. I will be using PGR for the first time this year, but I still have some apprehension about using it.
> 
> 1st: I don't mind mowing my 5k+ sq foot lawn.
> 2nd: it takes the same (if not more time) to prep mix and spray than it does to just mow.
> ...


If you enjoy mowing that's good, you'll still need to mow.

While it might take you just as long to mix and spray, that one mix and spray will eliminate around 1-2 mows a week. It's still a savings all the way around. If you are cutting short, you'll be cutting nearly everyday to maintain something sub .5 inches in the heat of summer.

Beyond the benefit of turf quality, you also remove the wear and tear in your equipment, as well as the wear and tear on your turf. Less mowing, less turning, less stress.

Tracking GDD is easy, even if you wanted to be exact an app will tell you....

PGR is expensive. Split it with someone. It'll last a while and it's totally worth the price of admission.


----------



## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Robertw17 said:


> How does PGR affect shaded areas. I have some thin spots in my zeon from shade just wondering what it would do to those areas


It will help it a ton. You'll be mowing it less, you'll have more leaf material and you'll have better roots. All of those will help the less than ideal conditions.

I'm going to go at it heavy this year with my TifTuf in my backyard. Lots of shade, dog and kid traffic has really beat it down along with erosion. Hoping to see more benefits from it.


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

FATC1TY said:


> Robertw17 said:
> 
> 
> > How does PGR affect shaded areas. I have some thin spots in my zeon from shade just wondering what it would do to those areas
> ...


I'm actually going to cut back to the 0.125oz rate this year, unless we'll be out of town for a week or so. Last year I waited a long time to grow out after an inflatable pool was put up a few days and another time when I managed to tip-burn the tiftuf with too much N. I'm hoping that'll be the sweet spot for me.


----------



## JayGo (Jun 13, 2019)

@corneliani, you're already using it? Are you getting that much growth already in your neck of the woods?


----------



## tcorbitt20 (Aug 31, 2018)

Just do it. You'll be glad you did.


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

JayGo said:


> @corneliani, you're already using it? Are you getting that much growth already in your neck of the woods?


I have fescue as well & use pgr on it during the spring flush. Started that last year & I like what it does. My Bermuda won't need it for another month with the cool temps we've been having this spring

I wonder how well it'll work on my shrubs & boxwoods? I despise hedging those things, they make a huge mess!
"Pgr. I put that $&!$ on everything :lol:


----------



## marcjw (Aug 28, 2020)

As a newbie I used PGR last year with great results. I couldn't keep up with the reel mowing and used it once and it basically pushed my mowing back to once per week. I also seen an improvement on color.


----------



## NeVs (Aug 17, 2018)

Any concern with using PGR on a thinned out lawn that is recovering (maybe 50% density)?


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

NeVs said:


> Any concern with using PGR on a thinned out lawn that is recovering (maybe 50% density)?


My experience is that if you want to see some top growth, keep it to a minimum. Half-rates may be the sweet spot where you get some suppression but not too much where it takes weeks to fill in.


----------



## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

Is there a rate at which I can start using PGR to avoid the bronzing? in other words can I ramp up over time?


----------



## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

ionicatoms said:


> Is there a rate at which I can start using PGR to avoid the bronzing? in other words can I ramp up over time?


Yes and no. You can read the label and look at the suggested rate for your turf and reduce by a certain percent and then increase on the next application after the appropriate GDD. It's really hard for anyone to suggest what that rate might actually be in reality because every turf type and even variety responds to PGR differently. Considering all of the different varieties of Bermuda I've got in my yard they all handle the different rates in different ways. As long as you lean towards a lower rate vs higher rate you will be fine. Word of caution, I've experimented with PGR on St Aug and reel mowing it and you can get some really awesome results and keep it really short, but some of the older varieties of St Aug don't handle even low rates of PGR very well.


----------



## rjw0283 (May 11, 2020)

If you don't want to spend the 150 plus for a gallon. They sell 8oz for under 40. If you want to try it out before you fully commit.

https://www.domyown.com/pramaxis-mec-plant-growth-regulator-p-23245.html


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

I'm splitting Tnex at $40 for 22oz. Just picked up another 2.5gal for his morning. Check out the marketplace thread. 
Sorry for the plug here.


----------



## Rowdy (Apr 3, 2020)

Anyone using T-NEX or other PGRs on Zeon zoysia and would it make sense to use PGR if I'm still using my rotary mower?


----------



## theguybrarian (Apr 11, 2020)

Any benefit to spraying newly germinated seed (Arden 15, specifically)? Or is this something more for the following season?


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Rowdy said:


> Anyone using T-NEX or other PGRs on Zeon zoysia and would it make sense to use PGR if I'm still using my rotary mower?


I don't know about Zeon but I used it on some Empire that had crept into my yard and it look better than the bermuda.


----------



## Philly_Gunner (Apr 23, 2019)

tcorbitt20 said:


> Just do it. You'll be glad you did.


Wow.


----------



## Philly_Gunner (Apr 23, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> I used Greenkeeperapp.com as well. It is awesome for computing your GDD. I also use it to track my pre-em apps, fertilizer totals, and Bifen apps. @NeVs, it shortens the node length so it still grows, just shorter and tighter.
> 
> PGR is second only to reel mowing as far as "game changers" are concerned. It's the real deal!


I tried that website and it is super confusing to me. Any other resource for tracking GDD?


----------



## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Philly_Gunner said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> > I used Greenkeeperapp.com as well. It is awesome for computing your GDD. I also use it to track my pre-em apps, fertilizer totals, and Bifen apps. @NeVs, it shortens the node length so it still grows, just shorter and tighter.
> ...


GreenKeeper App Setup Tutorial for a Homeowner :thumbup:


----------



## Philly_Gunner (Apr 23, 2019)

Ware said:


> Philly_Gunner said:
> 
> 
> > Redtwin said:
> ...


@Ware You're the man!


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

For curiosity's sake: Is there any good reason to use PGR early in the season? Say, after full greenup but before your mow schedule dictates some control? What if you used it before full greenup?


----------



## tneicna (May 6, 2019)

Ph.D Biochemist here.

Trinexapac-ethyl, the primary ingredient in Primo Max and it's generic knockoffs, its half-life is influenced by the air temperature; the warmer it is, the faster it degrades. This has been seen with hybrid bermudagrasses, Zoysia, Kentucky bluegrass etc (Lickfeldt et al., 2001; Fagerness et al., 2002; Beasley and Branham, 2007; Beasley et al., 2007).

Fagerness et al. (2002) showed that Trinexapac-ethyl provided greater growth suppression duration and magnitude of Tifway at 20/10°C day/night air temperatures as opposed to 35/25°C.

Beasley and Branham (2007) found similar trends after Trinexapac-ethyl application on Kentucky Bluegrass at 23/18°C day/night air temperatures or 30/25°C.

Those previous studies explored Trinexapac-ethyl efficacy at different air temperatures in a controlled, growth chamber experiment.

Beasley et al. (2007) and Lickfeldt et al. (2001) showed Trinexapac-ethyl applications were more effective on Kentucky bluegrass (i.e., greater magnitude and duration of growth suppression) during cooler air temperatures of the spring and fall compared with applications during summer months.

The effect of temperature on TE efficacy can be explained by the half‐life of trinexapac acid, the plant‐active form of TE, in-plant residues (Beasley and Branham, 2005; Beasley et al., 2007). Beasley and Branham (2005) reported that the half‐life of trinexapac acid at 18°C was 5.3 d in Kentucky bluegrass and 6.4 d in bentgrass, whereas the half‐life at 30°C was 3.4 and 3.1 d for Kentucky Bluegrass and bentgrass, respectively. Beasley et al. (2007) found a similar temperature effect on TE metabolism in a Kentucky bluegrass sward where the half‐life of trinexapac acid was 5.8 d after a spring TE application and 4.2 d after a summer application. However, the initial concentrations of trinexapac acid in Kentucky bluegrass were greater in summer than spring...

Going forward, Prohexadione Calcium seems to address the shortfalls of Trinexapac-ethyl, and it actually seems to be better overall. But I'll have to spend a few days on the literature to verify it. I think there are 2 products that contain P-Ca, and one of them is "Anuew"

Citations;

FagernessM.J., F.H.Yelverton, D.P.LivingstonIII, T.W.RuftyJr. 2002. Temperature and trinexapac-ethyl effects on bermudagrass growth, dormancy, and freezing tolerance. Crop Sci. 42: 853- 858. doi:10.2135/cropsci2002.0853 .

FagernessM.J., F.H.Yelverton, J.IsgriggIII, R.J.Cooper. 2000. Plant growth regulators and mowing height affect ball roll and quality of creeping bentgrass putting greens. HortScience 35: 755- 759.

BeasleyJ.S., B.E.Branham. 2005. Analysis of paclobutrazol and trinexapac acid in turfgrass clippings. Int. Turfgrass Soc. Res. J. 10: 1170- 1175.

BeasleyJ.S., B.E.Branham. 2007. Trinexapac-ethyl and paclobutrazol affect Kentucky bluegrass single-leaf carbon exchange rates and plant growth. Crop Sci. 47: 132- 138. doi:10.2135/cropsci2005.12.0453 .

BeasleyJ.S., B.E.Branham, L.A.Spomer. 2007. Plant growth regulators alter Kentucky bluegrass canopy leaf area and carbon exchange. Crop Sci. 47: 757- 766. doi:10.2135/cropsci2005.11.0432 .
Google Scholar

McCartyL.B., T.G.Willis, J.E.Toler, T.Whitwell. 2011. 'TifEagle' bermudagrass response to plant growth regulators and mowing height. Agron. J. 103: 988- 994. doi:10.2134/agronj2010.0467 .

LickfeldtD.W., D.S.Gardner, B.E.Branham, T.B.Voigt. 2001. Turfgrass management: Implications of repeated trinexapac-ethyl applications on Kentucky bluegrass. Agron. J. 93: 1164- 1168. doi:


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> For curiosity's sake: Is there any good reason to use PGR early in the season? Say, after full greenup but before your mow schedule dictates some control? What if you used it before full greenup?


I've considered applying early to reduce seed heads.


----------



## cityofoaks (Sep 8, 2020)

Philly_Gunner said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> > I used Greenkeeperapp.com as well. It is awesome for computing your GDD. I also use it to track my pre-em apps, fertilizer totals, and Bifen apps. @NeVs, it shortens the node length so it still grows, just shorter and tighter.
> ...


The Greencast website by Syngenta also has a very simple GDD tool, you enter your zip and select your base temp and how many GDD you want to accumulate before you get notified and that is it. You get emailed when it is time to reapply. I have some warm and cool season stands under PGR and have notifications set up for each. You have to research what the ideal GDD is for your application yourself but that is not too hard with all the info out there.


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

@tneicna, very interesting! So it's actually more efficient at temps that bermuda doesn't grow as fast anyway? So in theory, applying it early could give you the other benefits of PGR (density, seedhead suppression) for a longer period of time . . . and make mowing a rare event for awhile?

I have some bare spots and thin areas to fill so it's not something I feel like doing in the back . . . but the front is looking pretty nice. This will be my first year applying it, so I'm not bold enough to do something most people don't do, but it's worth thinking about in the future.


----------



## tneicna (May 6, 2019)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> @tneicna, very interesting! So it's actually more efficient at temps that bermuda doesn't grow as fast anyway? So in theory, applying it early could give you the other benefits of PGR (density, seedhead suppression) for a longer period of time . . . and make mowing a rare event for awhile?
> 
> I have some bare spots and thin areas to fill so it's not something I feel like doing in the back . . . but the front is looking pretty nice. This will be my first year applying it, so I'm not bold enough to do something most people don't do, but it's worth thinking about in the future.


Actually, TE needs /more/ applications the hotter it becomes. At 34C, its half-life is ~=1 day. You'll see rebound more quickly the hotter it becomes!

Beasley and Branham (2005) calculate it as; 
- 6.4 Day Half Life at 64°F (18°C)
- 3.1 Day Half Life at 86°F (30°C)


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

tneicna said:


> Actually, TE needs /more/ applications the hotter it becomes. At 34C, its half-life is ~=1 day. You'll see rebound more quickly the hotter it becomes!
> 
> Beasley and Branham (2005) calculate it as;
> - 6.4 Day Half Life at 64°F (18°C)
> - 3.1 Day Half Life at 86°F (30°C)


Yes, makes sense. Average air temps here don't get above 65F til late May and don't tend to get above 80 til July. Early season applications could be spaced pretty far apart.


----------



## gkaneko (Dec 11, 2018)

I'll throw in some of my experiences. I am a fairly new user of PGR
1. grass looks better, blades are shorter, closer together, very dense looking. Lots of comments on my grass since using it
2. all around less work, less mowing, don't worry about thatch as much
3. Less weeds: grass is so dense weeds cannot grow

I pair it with iron when I spray, the intensity of green is awesome.

Once you get a routine on how to spray and measure the chemicals its easy to spray. Definitely use marker spray.


----------



## Philly_Gunner (Apr 23, 2019)

gkaneko said:


> I'll throw in some of my experiences. I am a fairly new user of PGR
> 1. grass looks better, blades are shorter, closer together, very dense looking. Lots of comments on my grass since using it
> 2. all around less work, less mowing, don't worry about thatch as much
> 3. Less weeds: grass is so dense weeds cannot grow
> ...


Ok, I think I'm convinced. Gonna sand level in 2 weeks and then start when it's fully recovered. That will give me time to fine tune my sprayer.


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

Philly_Gunner said:


> gkaneko said:
> 
> 
> > I'll throw in some of my experiences. I am a fairly new user of PGR
> ...


Another convert. YES!! No turning back now


----------



## DeepC (Aug 12, 2020)

I'm convinced too ! 
I will do the front by GDD.
But can I do the backyard just occasionally, Like say once a month or once every two months, just whenever. Seams like I could still get a little benefit from occasional use. Or is it all or nothing?


----------



## Live Oak (Sep 18, 2020)

I started using PGR (TNex) on my St. Augustine for the first time in March. I use 1 tsp/gal combined with 1 tsp NIS. I have definitely noticed vertical growth suppression, but no clear improvement in turf density yet. No observable bronzing, but not really greener either. Will probably need a full growing season to really say anything definitive.


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

@DeepC Once you start PGR, you have to continue at the proper GDD or you will get a surge in growth which will work against you in the end.


----------



## Cherokee_Bermuda (May 10, 2019)

I am also officially jumping on the PGR team. TNex is on it's way. I am spraying .25# N/k of urea weekly. When I start PGR, should I continue that? I know I can combine it with the PGR, but not sure if I'll need to back off the urea. I am also going to throw in Main Event when I spray the PGR.


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

DeepC said:


> I'm convinced too !
> I will do the front by GDD.
> But can I do the backyard just occasionally, Like say once a month or once every two months, just whenever. Seams like I could still get a little benefit from occasional use. Or is it all or nothing?


If you want to maintain a uniform suppression it may be better spraying a lower rate at regular intervals. The rate regulates the amount of suppression, not necessarily the length.


----------



## Philly_Gunner (Apr 23, 2019)

I have the Northstar 31 gallon sprayer. Any recommendations for a better spray nozzle aside from doing the whole Frankenstein setup with new tubing and Teejet nozzles? Maybe just a new fan tip that I can use with the existing nozzle?


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Cherokee_Bermuda said:


> I am also officially jumping on the PGR team. TNex is on it's way. I am spraying .25# N/k of urea weekly. When I start PGR, should I continue that? I know I can combine it with the PGR, but not sure if I'll need to back off the urea. I am also going to throw in Main Event when I spray the PGR.


Is there a reason you are spraying 1 lb of Nitrogen(total) a month?


----------



## Cherokee_Bermuda (May 10, 2019)

Mightyquinn said:


> Cherokee_Bermuda said:
> 
> 
> > I am also officially jumping on the PGR team. TNex is on it's way. I am spraying .25# N/k of urea weekly. When I start PGR, should I continue that? I know I can combine it with the PGR, but not sure if I'll need to back off the urea. I am also going to throw in Main Event when I spray the PGR.
> ...


@Mightyquinn I am trying to push growth on my side and backyard. They are a little thin and could use the encouragement. Ideally I could reduce to half that rate once I see it filled in. This is my first year spraying fertilizer though. Is this too much?


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Cherokee_Bermuda said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> > Cherokee_Bermuda said:
> ...


Not if you are trying to fill in bare/thin areas. I just wanted to make sure you weren't over doing it as it will lead to other issue later in the season.


----------



## DeepC (Aug 12, 2020)

corneliani said:


> DeepC said:
> 
> 
> > I'm convinced too !
> ...


Okay I did it!!! Tnex+Fas, For the 1st time at 0.25/M on the Bermuda 419


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

DeepC said:


> corneliani said:
> 
> 
> > DeepC said:
> ...


Nice! :thumbup: 
Btw if you find that's too strong a suppression for your regular needs/likes you could go with the 0.125/M rate and still have nice controlled growth. And if you're leaving out of town or having a rainy forecast, bump it up. I like that you can be anticipatory in that way and tailor it to your circumstances.


----------



## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Philly_Gunner said:


> I have the Northstar 31 gallon sprayer. Any recommendations for a better spray nozzle aside from doing the whole Frankenstein setup with new tubing and Teejet nozzles? Maybe just a new fan tip that I can use with the existing nozzle?


People here teejet them I've never seen anything different yet


----------



## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

Are there cons to using prior to complete green-up? I'm in central NC and we've just come out of a few days at 30-40 degree night temps so things are slow going. I've got enough green-up that I scalped a bit after waiting 7 days between mowing (1" HOC) but still plenty of dormant areas, too. Last year I think I started applying it around June. I'm really not fond of mowing twice a week in April but also don't want to slow green-up.


----------



## tneicna (May 6, 2019)

Kamauxx said:


> Are there cons to using prior to complete green-up? I'm in central NC and we've just come out of a few days at 30-40 degree night temps so things are slow going. I've got enough green-up that I scalped a bit after waiting 7 days between mowing (1" HOC) but still plenty of dormant areas, too. Last year I think I started applying it around June. I'm really not fond of mowing twice a week in April but also don't want to slow green-up.


I recommend mixing some liquid N with a PGR (in warm water) The growth suppression will still remain in place, but the greenup *should* accelerate.


----------



## Rowdy (Apr 3, 2020)

When applying PGR, how much iron are people using per 1000ft?


----------



## gkaneko (Dec 11, 2018)

Rowdy said:


> When applying PGR, how much iron are people using per 1000ft?


Just follow the instructions on the iron product.

I got the 2 gallon smith sprayer on amazon. Comes with good nozzles, I like the vertical fan. It's a really good sprayer.

I had a hard time spraying 2 gallons of mix across my yard evenly. I always ran out before I finished. I think I have 1200 sqft of grass in the front, maybe more, I can't remember.

Anyway, I needed up mixing .75 tsp into 1.5 gallons, sprayed that across half my yard and the repeated for the other half. I could spray more thoroughly without having to rush any sections. I hope this makes sense.


----------



## Rowdy (Apr 3, 2020)

Yea that makes sense. I just went with the low rate of T-Nex with 1/4 oz/k iron. We'll see how that goes.


----------



## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

DeepC said:


> corneliani said:
> 
> 
> > DeepC said:
> ...


What's FAS?


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

SCGrassMan said:


> What's FAS?


Ferrous Ammonium Sulphate also known as Ammonium Iron Sulphate in some circles.


----------



## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Redtwin said:


> SCGrassMan said:
> 
> 
> > What's FAS?
> ...


Is the local SiteOne or landscape supply place likely to have that? I also have FEature on hand


----------



## DeepC (Aug 12, 2020)

SCGrassMan said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> > SCGrassMan said:
> ...


I bought 5lbs of Ferrous Sulphate from amazon. I'm going to use it for awhile since I have high ph. I think Feature may have some additional benefits that Fas doesnt. Someone with more knowledge may be able further this topic


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

SCGrassMan said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> > SCGrassMan said:
> ...


https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=211


----------



## adidasUNT8 (Jul 23, 2020)

Philly_Gunner said:


> gkaneko said:
> 
> 
> > I'll throw in some of my experiences. I am a fairly new user of PGR
> ...


Ok i'm on the same page as you. I'm in Weatherford. What part of DFW are you?

I just recently plugged about 200 plugs from my back yard to the front yard, where there was some bare spots from overgrown sweet potato vine last year. I do plan on leveling again once or twice this year as well. I'm guessing I'll hold off for 2-3 weeks until we get some more consistent hot weather, and then we'll work on the sand leveling project.

So, PGR will minimize vertical growth. Does it accelerate horizontal growth/filling in spots, or is that at what the normal Bermuda growth rate would be? My mindset is filling in the small bare spots between the newly plugged spots.


----------



## Philly_Gunner (Apr 23, 2019)

adidasUNT8 said:


> Philly_Gunner said:
> 
> 
> > gkaneko said:
> ...


I'm south of FW about 30 mins. I could be wrong but I think PGR encourages lateral growth but I don't know if it accelerates said growth.


----------



## adidasUNT8 (Jul 23, 2020)

Philly_Gunner said:


> adidasUNT8 said:
> 
> 
> > Philly_Gunner said:
> ...


Itasca area? Yeah I've heard about it encouraging lateral growth but also people were saying if you have some bare spots don't use PGR because it will take longer. Hmmm..


----------



## Philly_Gunner (Apr 23, 2019)

adidasUNT8 said:


> Philly_Gunner said:
> 
> 
> > adidasUNT8 said:
> ...


Godley


----------



## DeepC (Aug 12, 2020)

corneliani said:


> DeepC said:
> 
> 
> > corneliani said:
> ...


Holy shiz, my lawn looks fantastic today!!!!
Could it be the Tnex+fas this soon, 3 days past? I did put down phos and potassium a couple days prior but I havent had quick gains from just that in the past. I worked late today so it's too dark for a photo, tomorrow.


----------



## PGrenauer (Dec 14, 2020)

Trying to understand the GDD and the Greenskeeper App. Why if I applied PGR on my Driveway Circle area a week before any of the other areas does it have a longer lifespan?


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

PGrenauer said:


> Trying to understand the GDD and the Greenskeeper App. Why if I applied PGR on my Driveway Circle area a week before any of the other areas does it have a longer lifespan?


It must have been cooler that week. GreenKeeperApp is averaging it out over the full period so it is assuming the temps will be cooler. As you have warmer days, the reapplication date will adjust.


----------



## PGrenauer (Dec 14, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> PGrenauer said:
> 
> 
> > Trying to understand the GDD and the Greenskeeper App. Why if I applied PGR on my Driveway Circle area a week before any of the other areas does it have a longer lifespan?
> ...


Thanks for the info!


----------



## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

Robertw17 said:


> How does PGR affect shaded areas. I have some thin spots in my zeon from shade just wondering what it would do to those areas


Pgr is great for shaded areas. By reducing metabolic resources, it allows a photosynthetic deficient plant to manage with the limited sunlight (some caveats).

I didn't get too deep into this thread, but I have yet to see added drought tolerance, increased traffic tolerance, shade benefits listed as benefits of pgr use. Sure, it's nice to save money and time by fewer mowing, but pgr programs offer so much more!


----------



## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

ionicatoms said:


> Is there a rate at which I can start using PGR to avoid the bronzing? in other words can I ramp up over time?


My first app in the spring is around 10oz/acre. After that it's bumped up to 12 or 14. For putting greens it's similar, however we start at 1oz/acre and scale up to 3 over the course of 2-3 weeks


----------



## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

viva_oldtrafford said:


> ionicatoms said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a rate at which I can start using PGR to avoid the bronzing? in other words can I ramp up over time?
> ...


Thanks! I'm looking forward to my first app!


----------



## adidasUNT8 (Jul 23, 2020)

Would PGR slow the lateral growth to grow in any small thin/bare spots?


----------



## Yellow Jacket (May 8, 2021)

Rowdy said:


> Are there any alternatives to T-Nex that won't empty my kid's college fund?


It is a lot to purchase up front, but it last years. Look at it as a per application price and its pretty cheap. Maybe split a bottle with a neighbor


----------



## JayGo (Jun 13, 2019)

If I'm planning on doing some more leveling within the next 4 to 6 weeks, I assume I should wait to begin using PGR until after it's filled back in, correct?


----------



## Teej (Feb 27, 2019)

JayGo said:


> If I'm planning on doing some more leveling within the next 4 to 6 weeks, I assume I should wait to begin using PGR until after it's filled back in, correct?


Correct.


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Teej said:


> JayGo said:
> 
> 
> > If I'm planning on doing some more leveling within the next 4 to 6 weeks, I assume I should wait to begin using PGR until after it's filled back in, correct?
> ...


You could also start your PGR program and then allow it to rebound right as you are sand leveling. Buckle up if you do though, it will go nuts if you let it rebound in the middle of the summer.


----------



## nnnnnate (Apr 23, 2020)

So I did my second app of PGR last week and put the info into GreenKeeper. Looking at the GK app today and its just stacked the new details below the first one that is past its lifespan. Do you guys "X" out the old applications in that "Product Expiration Lifespan" pane of GK? Not sure if doing that would delete those details so I wouldn't be able to see historical information down the road. Thanks.


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I X out of the old one once I enter the new one.


----------



## Twodollarblue (May 26, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> I X out of the old one once I enter the new one.


I also "X" out old applications once I apply a new one.


----------



## LittleBearBermuda (Sep 25, 2020)

Twodollarblue said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> > I X out of the old one once I enter the new one.
> ...


How many GDD do you typically have left when you reapply PGR?


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I usually try and time it when it's at 0 but you have 1-2 days if not more on either end of the spectrum.


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

LittleBearBermuda said:


> Twodollarblue said:
> 
> 
> > Redtwin said:
> ...


I set my default GDD at 250 and like others I try to let it run out unless I will be out of town long enough that I'm concerned it will rebound.


----------



## TTown85 (Jan 25, 2021)

So I applied a light dose on my common bermuda (.18oz/k) and the feedback I got was to bump it up closer to .5oz/k as common can tolerate more. Do I wait until this light dose has expired based on greenkeeper or can I reapply in the middle of my current cycle? I'm only 16% into this "lifespan"


----------



## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

TTown85 said:


> So I applied a light dose on my common bermuda (.18oz/k) and the feedback I got was to bump it up closer to .5oz/k as common can tolerate more. Do I wait until this light dose has expired based on greenkeeper or can I reapply in the middle of my current cycle? I'm only 16% into this "lifespan"


I would say watch it and see if you get any suppression document it so you know what amount to spray remember no two yards are the same. There's a lot of things that go into suppression. Last year I kept following greenkeeper and my hoc wasn't taking in consideration inside the app needless to say my last app on my backyard took two months to come outta of suppression


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

TTown85 said:


> So I applied a light dose on my common bermuda (.18oz/k) and the feedback I got was to bump it up closer to .5oz/k as common can tolerate more. Do I wait until this light dose has expired based on greenkeeper or can I reapply in the middle of my current cycle? I'm only 16% into this "lifespan"


I think that was me who recommended gradually bumping it but do it at each reapplication. If you are catching your clippings you will get a better indication of how much suppression you are getting. Whether you apply .18oz or .50oz it will last about the same amount of time; what will be different is the level of suppression you see.

When it's time to reapply, I recommend increasing to .25oz and see what suppression you get. The next will be .38oz, then .50oz. If you are getting decent suppression at the .25oz then no need to bump it up from there. I'm thinking that once the summer gets rolling though, you are going to need more suppression than you need now. I was not keeping up with my 419 at .38oz last summer even though I was mowing every other day. This year I will be adjusting my fertilizer and water rates to see if that helps, but if you are wanting to push growth and spread you will not be able to cut back like that.


----------



## zcabe (May 1, 2019)

Philly_Gunner said:


> I'm currently maintaining ~ 26k of 419 with a reel and have never used PGR. Honestly, I'm a little intimidated by PGR and want to know the pros and cons from some of the more seasoned members. Thanks!


Kudos to you for maintaining that amount of turf with a reel. I struggle keeping up with my 7k of turf with reel. I say PGR is a must now. That way if you do miss a mow your not scalping. Plus the benefits of the turf thickening and drought stress is an added bonus. Just remember to always add some sort of "spoon feeding" nitrogen and some iron in on the PGR app to eliminate the bronzing. I would say if you get the greenkeeper app and enter all your info in correct and follow their guidelines for applications and measure out your applications correct it's not that much money if you think about it. Your only applying for about 5 months at the most with your apps avg 20 days in between.


----------



## Philly_Gunner (Apr 23, 2019)

zcabe said:


> Philly_Gunner said:
> 
> 
> > I'm currently maintaining ~ 26k of 419 with a reel and have never used PGR. Honestly, I'm a little intimidated by PGR and want to know the pros and cons from some of the more seasoned members. Thanks!
> ...


Thanks, definitely not for the faint of heart! I'm waiting for our current streak of rain to end so that I can level. Once I'm 75% recovered from leveling I'm gonna start PGR. Looking at mid June to 1st of July.


----------



## rbvar (May 28, 2020)

Philly_Gunner said:


> Thanks, definitely not for the faint of heart! I'm waiting for our current streak of rain to end so that I can level. Once I'm 75% recovered from leveling I'm gonna start PGR. Looking at mid June to 1st of July.


Similar boat. Anxious to start trying PGR, but need to get a leveling project done first, but don't want to start that until the weather here is consistently warm, and the Triangle just doesn't want to quit the 40 degree nights this year.


----------



## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Rowdy said:


> Are there any alternatives to T-Nex that won't empty my kid's college fund?


No


----------



## zcabe (May 1, 2019)

CenlaLowell said:


> Rowdy said:
> 
> 
> > Are there any alternatives to T-Nex that won't empty my kid's college fund?
> ...


T-nex is the generic version.


----------



## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

zcabe said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> > Rowdy said:
> ...


Yep, it is


----------



## dmouw (Jul 17, 2018)

JayGo said:


> If I'm planning on doing some more leveling within the next 4 to 6 weeks, I assume I should wait to begin using PGR until after it's filled back in, correct?


What is the verdict on if you still have fill in? Do you apply PGR or no ?


----------



## dmouw (Jul 17, 2018)

JayGo said:


> If I'm planning on doing some more leveling within the next 4 to 6 weeks, I assume I should wait to begin using PGR until after it's filled back in, correct?


What is the verdict on if you still have fill in? Do you apply PGR or no ?


----------



## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

dmouw said:


> JayGo said:
> 
> 
> > If I'm planning on doing some more leveling within the next 4 to 6 weeks, I assume I should wait to begin using PGR until after it's filled back in, correct?
> ...


If I'm trying to fill in I don't use pgr


----------



## JayGo (Jun 13, 2019)

dmouw said:


> JayGo said:
> 
> 
> > If I'm planning on doing some more leveling within the next 4 to 6 weeks, I assume I should wait to begin using PGR until after it's filled back in, correct?
> ...


It seems that you don't want to "regulate" growth if you're trying to get your turf to spread and fill in bare spots.
It may help with thin spots since PGR is supposed to promote more turf blades (which is the reason for "thicker" or "denser" turf). But as far as PGR causing your turf to shoot more stolons that would help fill in bare spots, I haven't been able to find that documented anywhere.


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I used PGR while working on filling in a couple of years ago. It will slow it down a bit but mowing low helps with fill-in and I wasn't able to mow every single day at the time. I thinking mowing super low and often is your best bet for fill-in (PGR or not).


----------

