# Existing vs new grass - Tall Fescue



## ZJGMoparman (May 18, 2019)

Hello all, this is my first post here on the forum. We built a house in 2017 and seeded our initial seeding in September of that year with 100% Bullseye. I was still very uneducated about turf grasses at this point. After doing quite a bit of research over the next several months, I decided to contact The Hogan Seed company about ordering a couple more varieties to seed the following fall (2018). I ended up purchasing a 3 variety blend of Rockwell, Rebounder, and Firewall. Areas that were previously seeded with the bullseye were seeded at a rate of 3lbs / 1,000 sq ft. New areas were seeded at a rate of 6 lbs./ 1,000 sq feet. The new grass came up great and seemed to grow like weeds all spring of this year. I'm a little concerned about the color. The bullseye that was seeded in 2017 is a dark green and seems to be very slow growing. The 3 seed blend from 2018 is growing much faster, is a much lighter green, and doesn't seem to be producing leaf blades. After I mow the new grass, it looks like a bunch of round stalks. I'm hoping that some of you can help determine what my problem is.

A couple additional pieces of information... last summer I sent soil samples off for testing. When seeding last fall I applied the recommended fertilizer at the recommended rate (5-10-5). My pH was a little high at 7.5. This spring I applied a nitrogen fertilizer at a rate of 1 lb/ 1,000 sq. Feet. Spoil is primarily clay. We've had an unusually high amount of rain since about September of 2018.

I have uploaded images showing the difference in the 2 grasses. You can see a well defined line. Also included is a close up of each grass.

I look forward to seeing you comments.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

It very well could be a mowing issue, at least partly. Maybe @social port can comment.

Unfortunately, Bullseye, arguably the best TTTF variety, is now discontinued. They don't grow it anymore. Whatever you do, don't kill and renovate that lawn!

How did it work at the 3 lbs. per thousand seeding rate, by the way?

And welcome!


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Also, for some reason it appears the three-cultivar blend is going crazy trying to seed, while the Bullseye is not. I wonder why that would be.


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## ZJGMoparman (May 18, 2019)

I've noticed that. In the established bullseye section of the yard, I have random taller pieces of what looks like the blend that is trying to seed. The areas that are only the blend are full of seeds every time I mow.

I guess I should also add that in the cooler spring months I was mowing at 3-3.5". Now that it is getting warmer, I'm mowing at the highest mower setting which measures about 4.25".

Mowing with a 60" Bad Boy Maverick.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

One thing you could try, in about a week or two, once the seedhead production starts winding down, is to cut once at 4 in, or even 3.75 in, to trim the seed stalks down, then go back to normal Summer mowing height. Don't try it unless there's sufficient rain forecast in the days following.

Do you suspect the mower blade sharpness is an issue?

The new grass may also need a touch of (extra) fertilizer at some point this Spring to help it along.


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## ZJGMoparman (May 18, 2019)

It is a brand new mower. I have mowed about 6 times with it. I can inspect the blades, but it doesnt appear that are dull.

If I apply a fertilizer, what would you recommend. Long range forecast is already showing upper 80s and low 90s for the next few weeks.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I'm not sure on this one, but here is my best input:

I wouldn't be too concerned about different growth rates for the mix and the bullseye. I'm pretty convinced that different cultivars grow at different rates. Same for color differences. Give it some time, and things will even up some, I predict.
I recently added a new cultivar to my fescue mix, and I can, for the most part, identify the new grass by its color: it is considerably lighter than my original mix.

I agree with Green regarding your blade. If possible, you want to take care of the tearing of leaf tissue before disease season hits. It could also be an rpm issue (welcome to the club! I'm going through the same thing right now).

I also agree with Green that a little extra nutrition for the new grass is a good idea. However, if temps are going to be in the 80s and 90s, I would be anxious about fertilizer right now-Even more if it is also humid. Young fescue is also quite susceptible to disease. I suspect that you've missed your safe window for extra Nitrogen.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

That stalky stuff doesn't look like fescue to me. I've never seen fescue look like that, and the leaf has a fold down the middle. Is it possible there was some annual ryegrass in the mix?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I had a similar thought process as j4c11 regarding those stalks not being fescue, but I wasn't sure. FWIW.


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## ZJGMoparman (May 18, 2019)

If there was annual rye mixed, I'm not sure where it came from. The area that is 100% of the blend with no bullseye was a field last year. I begin spraying with round up last summer to get it killed (3 sprayings spaced 2-3 weeks apart). This was completed by mid August. In late September the land was tilled and then went over with a drag harrow before seeding. I don't know where the rye would have come from.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Yea the seed stalks look a lot like my PRG lawn right now.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@ZJGMoparman what was there before? Possible that it had seeds?


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## ZJGMoparman (May 18, 2019)

It was primarily weeds. Its interesting that Fuzzewuzze said it looks like his PRG lawn. There is an area adjacent to our yard that was seeded with PRG the same time that I seeded my lawn. It's on the down hill side though, so the PRG could not have possibly washed into my fescue.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

I looked at the NTEP chart and all 3 of your seed varieties in your blend should be darker then that. All 3 are pretty high quality TTTF. Like others said that doesnt even look like fescue. Possible some of the weed seeds germinated from last year or something.


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

Check your seed label, see if you have a % of "other crop". I used a blend that was 2.31% other crop last year, which I believe was annual rye. The more I cut it, the less obvious it is, but there was a lot of it before the lawn grew in.

2.31% is a little over a pound in a 50 pound bag, of something similar in size to the TTTF seeds.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Ill point you at a thread from last year about PRG seed heads and see what you think. Looks similar to me. Could be weeds, but its the right time of year for PRG stemmy stalks. You'll really notice them when they start dying, gave my entire yard a annoying brown haze, its why i started chopping low. Mowing high just doesnt work for PRG in my experience. At least not with the elite varities i have(Banfield/Thrive/Hancock/Aspire). They look way better at 1" or so because of this very problem.
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4359

You could go look at the adjacent area and see if it looks the same


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## ZJGMoparman (May 18, 2019)

I went and pulled a piece of the grass up to take a picture. Take a look below. I'm not an expert, but I think this looks like a type of Rye Grass.

I've also attached a picture of the label on the bag of seed I put out. I'm a little concerned of this is indeed Rye Grass. There is nothing that looks like Fescue in this area of the yard.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Those seed heads are not consistent with fescue. They are more consistent with a kind of rye, but I can't make the ID beyond that. 
Your fescue seed should have been free from weed seed (as much as can be reasonably guaranteed). 
Best guess is that those seeds were already in the soil or the plants were already there.


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## ZJGMoparman (May 18, 2019)

If this is an annual rye, I'm assuming if I keep it mowed below the seed heads, it will eventually die off and I can just reseed with fescue this fall. If it's a perennial rye, I'm not sure what to do.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

That's correct. One thing at a time though. Annual rye will die in about 2 months, maybe less. Makes sense though...you killed it last year, but it must have left seeds.


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## Oregonseed (May 22, 2019)

That is definitely perennial ryegrass.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Oregonseed said:


> That is definitely perennial ryegrass.


And not a big deal, honestly, OP. It'll tend to thin out without supplemental irrigation during hot, dry stretches.

What I'm amazed about is how well the Bullseye came in at the 3 lbs seed rate.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

ZJGMoparman said:


> There is nothing that looks like Fescue in this area of the yard.


Wait...what?! I just saw this comment now. You don't see any TTTF? That could be a problem...


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## ZJGMoparman (May 18, 2019)

How do you know that it is a perennial rye vs an annual rye? I'll be reseeding this area this fall and don't want this falls seeding to be overtaken again by a perennial rye.

Also, I have mowed since my last post. It has been very hot here the past week, 90 degrees plus. I noticed the rye seems to be drying out at the base. Once I mowed all of the tall seed heads off, I can see what looks to be a few areas of fescue. It definitely isnt thick, and seems to be in patches.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

The question is how did the rye get there when you seeded a fescue mix?


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## ZJGMoparman (May 18, 2019)

Like i mentioned in an earlier post, this area was a field last year. I begin spraying with roundup late last summer to get ready for seeding in September. I'm sure there was rye in the field. I'm guessing some of the seeds were already in the soil.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@ZJGMoparman I'm not sure, but I would predict that, if that is perennial rye, it won't make it through a summer in NC. I know someone in middle Tennessee who tried to grow PRG, and it looked great until the summer. It all died, so he then seeded fescue in the fall. FWIW.


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