# Marks UK soil test results



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

pH is 5.8, I want to aim for 6.5. I already have a bag of lime. The NV is 54.

I'll try listing in lbs and sqft, as closely as is reasonable, to the conversion to kg and sqm that we in UK use.

It seems that to raise pH from 5.8 to 6.5 for 75m2 or 800sqft, I'd need 45kg or 100lb of lime.
My reno area is 75m2/800sqft. Damn I only have a 25kg/55lb bag haha. 
Please confirm or correct my math and I'll get more lime if needed.
I'll get on with spreading what I have asap.

After liming, how long to leave before starting with the next soil adjustment app? (probably SOP 0-0-50?)


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Yes, about 128 lbs/M or 100 lbs for 800 sq. ft. Recommended app rates are 25-50 lbs/M of lime every 6 months until the total recommended quantity is reached. If those are results of Mehlich III testing (appears to be), then your in pretty good shape nutrient wise except for K which should be increased. I prefer to see K around 150-200 ppm and P around 40 ppm. As a rule of thumb, I suggest a couple of weeks space between different amendment applications, but it's not necessary for K and lime. Any idea why Cu and Zn are elevated? Is that common in your area due to soil parent material, or was the area an industrial site?


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Ridgerunner said:


> Yes, about 128 lbs/M or 100 lbs for 800 sq. ft. Recommended app rates are 25-50 lbs/M of lime every 6 months until the total recommended quantity is reached. If those are results of Mehlich III testing (appears to be), then your in pretty good shape nutrient wise except for K which should be increased. I prefer to see K around 150-200 ppm and P around 40 ppm. As a rule of thumb, I suggest a couple of weeks space between different amendment applications, but it's not necessary for K and lime. Any idea why Cu and Zn are elevated? Is that common in your area due to soil parent material, or was the area an industrial site?


Hey thanks for the reply, that's good then, I can put the 50lbs of lime that I have now and 50lbs in 6 months.

I can then go on to increase the K with 0-0-50 SOP I have later on.

No real idea why Cu and Zn are elevated. We live in an old sandstone quarry. Some of the plugs I took for the soil test were in a spot that was full of various builders rubble before I removed it. Maybe that's relevant, I'm not sure


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

First lime app complete  
Edit: 25kg over 150m². I make that 33lb/M. It was actually dolomite lime, my bad.
Considering I'm doing a reno soon, seed down maybe in late August, when do you think the next lime app would be appropriate? As long as the grass seed is reasonably established, and I can walk on it a little bit, there shouldn't be anything preventing me from liming the remainder needed in December should there?

Also double checking my upcoming K app. After again referring to @Ridgerunner excellent soil testing thread, I've done some math. 
I'm referring to SOP 0-0-50 here.
Theoretically, 2lbs/ksqft or 10g/m² of will raise K levels by 18ppm. 
So an app of 6lbs/ksqft or 30g/m² will raise levels by 54ppm. Thats 5lb or 2.25kg for my 800sqft or 75m² reno area.

Is 6lbs/ksqft too much to apply in one go?
If I can get 10lbs down before my seed down date that would be nice. That would theoretically increase my K by 108ppm from 81 to 189ppm.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Touchstones:
A soil test is properly employed when it is used to identify detriments. Levels of a nutrient that are so low as to be expected to create detrimental deficiencies in the plant or levels that are so excessive as to be expected to be a detriment to the plant (toxic or impede the uptake/availability of another nutrient) or to soil structure (e.g. cause soil particle dispersion or tight soil etc.).
On the whole, for every 1 lb of N that a plant takes up, it will need/use/ take-up .13 lbs of elemental P and between .5 and 1 lb of K. This relationship appears to apply with application rates also.
Sufficiency ranges are based on thousands of ag studies, from which data points were collected on the basis that the ppm levels selected reflected a "history" that an amendment would result in plant improvement 50% of the time and result in no improvement 50% of the time, that the level did not result in detrimental plant performance (i.e. were never found to be deficient)and that the CEC was of a mid-level CEC (15ish) loam. Sufficiency levels for sand are lower (PACE) and higher for clays. Conjecture: probably due to the more expansive (deeper and pulling nutrients from a larger area) root growth in sands vs clays. Regardless, the sufficiency ranges are intended to reflect soil nutrient levels necessary for a whole season of plant growth. The goal is to raise (known as "build") nutrient levels so that they fall within the sufficiency ranges by adding nutrients at individual quantity application amounts that do not to exceed suggested maximums (conservatively for major cations and P, about 1#/M every 30 days and every 60 for P) per application. Depending on the amounts needed and the quantities removed by the plant, this can take one or more seasons/years to accomplish.
There are a couple of philosophies for amending the soil after raising (build) levels to fall within the sufficiency levels (or BS% if that's how you want to roll), although it is likely a distinction without a difference. First is the "one and done" philosophy/method. This is the traditional method employed by farmers. Based on a soil test taken at the end of the growing season, or before the growing season, nutrients are replenished to return levels to sufficiency in one shot in the Fall or the Spring. The second (again after the build) is the "maintenance" philosophy/method, where application of nutrients are "spoon fed" with every N application in amounts based on plant usage for each individual N application. The results of a soil test at the end of, or before the beginning of the growing season are used to determine the plant's nutrient usage (and loss due to other variables) and adjust the individual applications with the goal of keeping the soil test levels consistent from year to year. Then, of coarse, there is every philosophy/method in between.
By necessity, we surface apply nutrients and other amendments, but the amount applied based on the soil test are calculated for a 6" soil depth. The surface nutrient/amendment application will initially concentrate in the top level of the soil and then percolate deeper and become less concentrated as it eventually disperses throughout the 6" depth. As mentioned in the first touchstone, it's advised to limit the quantity of an application so as to avoid or reduce creating detrimentally excessive quantities in the top soil levels as the amendment percs down. There is no hard and fast limits, just suggested limits that general do not create adverse results and they are pretty conservative.



> ...anything preventing me from liming the remainder needed in December should there?


As surface applications affect the top level of soil massively, it's possible that the pH in the top soil levels could approach pH 8 after a recent lime application and as newer seedlings aren't going to have much of a root system (deep) even by December, it's possible that the higher pH (and additional Ca and/or Mg from the lime) could reduce the availability of some nutrients. Lime does create yellowing, whcih correlates with reduced photosynthesis. On the other hand, the grass should be dormant by December and people seed and raise great lawns in high pH soil. Even though, the odds of a detrimental outcome are low, the only advantage I can see is that of getting the liming over with and done. I suggest you not put down more than 25 lbs in December, but I like to avoid "oh, [email protected]" moments when it comes to low reward instances, even when the costs are very low. pH change can take 1-2 years to occur. even up to three years to the 6" depth.



> I'm referring to SOP 0-0-50 here...
> Is 6lbs/ksqft too much to apply in one go?


Same issue here with a surface applied amendment. For instance, when K:Mg ratios are less than 1:1, Mg deficiency is likely, hence the safe rate recommended is 2# of SOP/M and even 4# rates are not usually an issue. In this case, as it is a reno and current grass is expendable and as K moves relatively well through soil, applying 6# NOW (yesterday) is not likely to create any issues by seeding time in August.

I don't blame you if after all that you're saying "WTH was all that about?" Just trying to add some perspective. 
As always, use the info for guidance and make your own judgement call.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

All excellent, helpful info. Thank you for being thorough and taking the time to reply in length. :thumbup:

I'm trying to get things amended too quickly then. I wanted things amended, based on my soil test, to fall within sufficiency ranges before seed down. A kind of a once and done philosophy. After that I was thinking of simply getting a 10-2-5 fertilizer to satisfy the ongoing needs of grass. Trying to amend soil quickly works on paper but probably makes things awkward for the soil, if that makes sense.

Makes sense that after any granular application that it would mostly be in the top of the soil, taking a few years to work its way through 6 inches and deeper. I get the point that the pH of recently limed soil will be high in the top surface where I will be sowing new grass seed in about 2 months time. Let's see how the seeding goes without any further lime this year. I can get the rest down slowly next year if and when the grass is established and growing well. I'm hopeful seeding will go well, I've overseeded before but this is my first reno.
Regarding the info on K application, I'm going to have to put down some hefty doses to get my ppm up from 81 to 200 or so. To go all in and drop a lot or go slow... It's late here now and that decision will have to wait until tomorrow morning! :roll: 
Once again, thanks for the input, much appreciated


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

It's morning.
The bag of SOP I have has application rates on the label of 30-50g/m². 50g/m² is 10lbs/ksqft!  Not really what I'm seeing recommended here. Surely people have used that rate based on what the bag says but I haven't seen any negative reviews. Maybe the makers know those rates won't show noticeable negative effects and want to sell more product, who knows.

I'm going to go with 4lbs/ksqft or 20g/m² of 0-0-50 SOP today, then another app of 4lbs/ksqft or 20g/m² July 16th. I'd rather see the K perc down more gently in lighter layers than all run thru in a big chunk. I'll probably be using starter fert of 6-9-6 at seed down around mid to late August so that will provide more K then.


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## LawnHoppper (Apr 30, 2020)

Hey @Mark B ,

A UK newbie here! Just joined the forum a few days ago and looking to get my head around what my front & back garden soils are made up of as I think of what do do with the dying fescue lawns! Would you have a recommendation of who to use for a sample soil test? I am assuming you might have picked the folks who did yours for some reason e.g. the type fo test offered? Or is it all standard in the UK? I did see RHS offer at £35 a sample but hey, doesn't harm to hear what folks who have gone before think...

Many thanks. Sorry to send you back to a 2019 Thread! ;-)


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

LawnHoppper said:


> Hey @Mark B ,
> 
> A UK newbie here! Just joined the forum a few days ago and looking to get my head around what my front & back garden soils are made up of as I think of what do do with the dying fescue lawns! Would you have a recommendation of who to use for a sample soil test? I am assuming you might have picked the folks who did yours for some reason e.g. the type fo test offered? Or is it all standard in the UK? I did see RHS offer at £35 a sample but hey, doesn't harm to hear what folks who have gone before think...
> 
> Many thanks. Sorry to send you back to a 2019 Thread! ;-)


Just a note, the RHS website currently says their soil testing is closed and any samples sent will be destroyed. It seems they only test P, K and Mg along with pH, cec and texture for £35, or £30 if you are a member of the RHS.

I chose https://www.progreen.co.uk/fertiliser/soil-analysis/soil-analysis-for-lawns-amenity-turf because I was also buying a few other products. Its currently £48, the price has gone up about £10 since last year. Its a more comprehensive test with the micros tested too. It didn't include saturation ratios which I would have liked, but I got my test when I didn't know what I know now, thanks to TLF! However, it definitely sent me down the right track and I would do the same again.
I'll test again in early spring 2021 and I'll look around then, possibly call a testing lab directly to confirm about extraction methods used for testing and if they offer saturation ratio testing, as I'm getting into this a little bit more in depth these days.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

https://www.pitchcare.com/shop/soil-analysis-and-soil-testing-kits/soil-analysis-broad-spectrum-cec-500g.html
is currently £39 @LawnHoppper


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## Richard Slater (Aug 25, 2017)

The RHS test is pretty limited:



It was useful as at the time I wasn't aware of either ProGreen or Pitch Care's soil tests.


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## LawnHoppper (Apr 30, 2020)

@Mark B , many thanks for that info! I will definitely be looking at the two links (PG & PC) you shared and I would agree, the last few days of reading extremely enlightening posts on this topic from the likes of @Ridgerunner, @g-man and a few others, I sure think I need to digest and figure how much i want to bite! Great learning!

@Richard Slater , thanks for sharing the sample report. It sure does look basic compared to what @Mark B went for..this definitely gives me a good idea!


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

I am considering a soil amendment of molybdenum based on my soil test in my first post. I understand soil Mo analysis is technically imprecise however I am seeing deficiency symptoms again this year in various plants and vegtables (some stunted growth, some yellowing, also veins in leaves are affected) and also wonder how much of an effect the deficiency is having on the grass. 
I understand that ideally, I would send tissue samples to a lab to confirm, however, is there much harm in putting ammonium molybdate down to attempt to help with these issues?

A rate of 1lb/acre of actual Mo equates to 1.85lb/acre (21g/100m2) of ammonium molybdate.
Lower rates are obviously an option too.
It is an impossibly small amount to spread granular, so I would plan to dissolve it, spray it and water it in to the soil afterwards to bypass foliar uptake.
If I did this, anyone know how would it affect the ppm of Mo?
@Ridgerunner I hope you don't mind if I tag you here.

Product.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ammonium-Molybdate-Tetrahydrate-99-ACS-50gm/131884931189?epid=1462772571&hash=item1eb4f45875:g:zCMAAOSwawpXstfh

Molybdenum article.
https://www.extension.uidaho.edu/publishing/pdf/CIS/CIS1087.pdf


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Adjusting Mo levels is both out of my wheelhouse and comfort zone. Testing Mo levels isn't part of any regular testing package here in the states. Plant/turf needs/uptake of Mo is very low and soil levels of Mo availability can be improved by just raising soil pH in most cases. Deficiencies or excess levels of many nutrients could be the reason for chlorosis and the other problems you describe. I'd suggest you see if raising pH improves levels prior to attempting amending. 
Before adjusting any minor nutrient (save maybe iron), unless you want to try a standard turf fertilizer fortified with very, very small amounts of minors (SiteOne or Nutrien Agro, even Carbon Earth are sources in the U.S. for that sort of product for turf. -not sure that any contain Mo though), I'd advise anyone to perform a tissue test and make sure the minor that you think might be low is tested.
Bottom line: get your pH up and retest before going down the amending path.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Thank you for the reply @Ridgerunner  
I have applied the recommended doses of lime since my test in 2019, as per lab recommendations and a chat with you and others last year, which was much appreciated. I plan to retest in spring 2021 to allow the lime to have a thorough effect on my pH. The last lime app I made was March 2020.
It is strange that the Mo test was included on my report. I will look into a tissue test before attempting amendment.
The article I linked says: Mo-deficiency symptoms are difficult to distinguish from N and S nutritional problems and often are misdiagnosed. Mildly Mo-deficient plant leaves appear yellow, similar to their appearance when they are deficient in N or S.
I have this situation in a few plants, not so much the turf grass, so considered the ammendment. As long as it would not be toxic I considered an app of Mo.

Again from the article: 3-4lbs/acre would be toxic to many plants. 
They have a table of application rates of between 1/8 and 1lb/acre of Mo.
Maybe I can apply a low dose to my affected plants and see if there is improvement.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Let us know


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