# Is Barn Lime the same as other lime?



## mountainmoron

I'm trying to find a cost-effective source for lime.
Lowe's and Home Depot are around $4/bag. I'm not familiar with local options other than Southern States Coop which is also around $4.

Tractor supply has Barn Lime at $3. https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/waukesha-lime-barnlime-50-lb-bag

Is "Barn Lime" the same as other lime? Anyone know any better sources in NC?


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## Virginiagal

I'm not familiar with this product but from reading information on the website, it seems to be a dolomitic lime that is a mix of grit and powder from crushed limestone. So the main disadvantage may be that it is harder to apply and creates a cloud of dust when you spread it. Pelletized limestone would be easier to spread. However, it should be fine to use.


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## adgattoni

What did your soil test show regarding calcium and magnesium? If you are already within or close to sufficient levels for magnesium, skip both of these and go with a calcitic lime (Site One and Ewing have it).


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## Virginiagal

Good point, @adgattoni. I did a search for lime in North Carolina and found this site which lists some farm supply stores in NC:
https://www.bakerlime.com/locations/north-carolina/


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## Ridgerunner

The problem with Barn Lime (ag-lime) is that it is often a low quality (low percentage carbonate content- low CCE) dolomitic lime. Basically just a crushed limestone. It is also subject to lower particle size quality standards. The result is that it will usually take higher quantities and longer time for it to raise pH.


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## Virginiagal

In the QA section in the website, it's described as having a calcium carbonate equivalent of 102-104%. I used a powdered lime many years ago and once was enough, it was such a mess to spread. For a 32,,250 sq ft area, I can understand why you'd be looking for inexpensive lime. You can use up to 50 lb/1000 sq ft of dolomitic or calcitic lime (but not fast acting) per application. Your soil test should have made a lime recommendation.


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## massgrass

It's not a huge savings, but at my local Lowe's stores you can get a 10% off contractor's rate for Dolomitic Lime for quantities of 10+ 40lb bags. The Soil Doctor stuff around here worked out to $3.58 per bag.


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## Ridgerunner

Most, but not all, lime recommendations are based on applying a lime with a CCE of 100%.
So what is the CCE of Waukesha Barn lime?
According to this site a 60-69 Wisconsin lime zone index is equivalent to 70% CCE:
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/code/register/1981/307b/remove/ag28.pdf
The Wisconsin lime zone index of Waukesha Barn lime is 50-59:
https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/368973-waukesha-50-lb-shur-tred-barnlime.html
So the CCE of Waukesha Barn lime is less than 70. To compare the cost effectiveness of this product vs another lime product, you'll need to do the math. I think I gave that calculation process (or a link to it) in my thread, but as @Virginiagal mentioned, it can be messy to spread if not prilled or you'll want to use a drop spreader.


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## mountainmoron

Ridgerunner said:


> The problem with Barn Lime (ag-lime) is that it is often a low quality (low percentage carbonate content- low CCE) dolomitic lime. Basically just a crushed limestone. It is also subject to lower particle size quality standards. The result is that it will usually take higher quantities and longer time for it to raise pH.


That's exactly what I was worried about - that it might be different quality meant for other uses than applying to lawns.

And regarding your other response, I do have an old drop spreader but I'm still not sure if it would be worth it.


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## mountainmoron

Virginiagal said:


> In the QA section in the website, it's described as having a calcium carbonate equivalent of 102-104%. I used a powdered lime many years ago and once was enough, it was such a mess to spread. For a 32,,250 sq ft area, I can understand why you'd be looking for inexpensive lime. You can use up to 50 lb/1000 sq ft of dolomitic or calcitic lime (but not fast acting) per application. Your soil test should have made a lime recommendation.


Yes, the recommendation is over 50 lb/1000 sq ft so I have a lot of work and long road ahead. Another reason for trying to be cost-effective!


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## mountainmoron

massgrass said:


> It's not a huge savings, but at my local Lowe's stores you can get a 10% off contractor's rate for Dolomitic Lime for quantities of 10+ 40lb bags. The Soil Doctor stuff around here worked out to $3.58 per bag.


That's true! My local ones do that as well and I'd completely forgotten to factor that in. Might not be as big of a difference after all.


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## Ridgerunner

What lab did you use for your soil test?
Was it UNC?


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## massgrass

mountainmoron said:


> That's true! My local ones do that as well and I'd completely forgotten to factor that in. Might not be as big of a difference after all.


If nothing else, it's at least easier to spread than the powdered stuff.


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## mountainmoron

Ridgerunner said:


> What lab did you use for your soil test?
> Was it UNC?


it was the state department of ag. https://www.ncagr.gov/agronomi/uyrst.htm.


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## Ridgerunner

Thanks,
The NCDA is one of those labs that doesn't make their recommendations based on 100 CCE. They base it on a 90 CCE lime.
http://www.ncagr.gov/agronomi/buffacid.htm
Your test recommedns that you apply 40#/M of a 90 CCE lime to nutralize enough soil acidity to reach the final targeted soil pH
40# X 32 (1000 sq ft units)= 1280 lbs of 90 CCE lime.
Based on what I posted prior, let's assume the barn lime has a CCE of 60.
To calculate the amount of barn lime needed to have the same neutralizing effect as 1280# of 90 CCE lime:
1280 X90 / 60 = 1920#
1920 / 50 (bag size) = 39 bags @$3.00 ea = $117
An alternative pelletized lime, as an example:
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/lawnlime-pelletized-dolomitic-limestone which is a 40# bag of 96 CCE lime for $4.69.
Doing the math:
1280 X 90 / 96 = 1200# of 96 CCE lime is needed to have the same neutralizing effect as 1280# of the recommended lime.
1200 / 40 = 30 bags @4.69 ea = $140.70 or $24 more than the Barn lime.
Is it worth $24 to be able to broadcast a pellet vs drop spreading a crushed product? To be able to spread 700# less product? To hall 700 lbs less product from the store? Decisions, decisions Lol.
Good luck.


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## mountainmoron

Ridgerunner said:


> Thanks,
> The NCDA is one of those labs that doesn't make their recommendations based on 100 CCE. They base it on a 90 CCE lime.
> http://www.ncagr.gov/agronomi/buffacid.htm
> Your test recommedns that you apply 40#/M of a 90 CCE lime to nutralize enough soil acidity to reach the final targeted soil pH
> 40# X 32 (1000 sq ft units)= 1280 lbs of 90 CCE lime.
> Based on what I posted prior, let's assume the barn lime has a CCE of 60.
> To calculate the amount of barn lime needed to have the same neutralizing effect as 1280# of 90 CCE lime:
> 1280 X90 / 60 = 1920#
> 1920 / 50 (bag size) = 39 bags @$3.00 ea = $117
> An alternative pelletized lime, as an example:
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/lawnlime-pelletized-dolomitic-limestone which is a 40# bag of 96 CCE lime for $4.69.
> Doing the math:
> 1280 X 90 / 96 = 1200# of 96 CCE lime is needed to have the same neutralizing effect as 1280# of the recommended lime.
> 1200 / 40 = 30 bags @4.69 ea = $140.70 or $24 more than the Barn lime.
> Is it worth $24 to be able to broadcast a pellet vs drop spreading a crushed product? To be able to spread 700# less product? To hall 700 lbs less product from the store? Decisions, decisions Lol.
> Good luck.


That was, as always, very impressive.
The soil test recommends 65#/M for the front yard though so I'll try to copy you here. Front is roughly 20 of the 32k.
So lets say 40# X 12(1000 sq ft units)= 480 lbs of 90 CCE lime.
480X90 / 60 = 720#
720/ 50 (bag size) = 14.4 bags @$3.00 ea =~ $44 
and then
65# X 20(1000 sq ft units)= 1300 lbs of 90 CCE lime.
1300X90 / 60 = 1950#
1950/ 50 (bag size) = 39 bags @$3.00 ea = $117 for a total of $161

so
480X 90 / 96 = 450# of 96 CCE lime is needed to have the same neutralizing effect as 480# of the recommended lime.
450/ 40 = 12 bags @4.69 ea = $56.28 
and
1300X 90 / 96 = 1219# of 96 CCE lime is needed to have the same neutralizing effect as 1300# of the recommended lime.
1219/ 40 = 30.5 bags @4.69 ea = $143 plus $56 so let's say 200 or about $40 more than the Barn lime.

Should be right but I'm not a math person. All that effort to find its saving $40 and 12 bags to be moved. Maybe that alone is nice but then factor in the spreading method - it doesn't seem worth it. That's not even factoring in the cheaper line from Lowe's or HD. https://www.lowes.com/pd/40-lb-Pro-Care-Lime/3581994

Maybe this post will help someone else looking into it though!


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## r7k

> Is "Barn Lime" the same as other lime?


*NO*



> I'm trying to find a cost-effective source for lime.
> Tractor supply has Barn Lime at $3. https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/waukesha-lime-barnlime-50-lb-bag
> {waukesha barn lime"


to answer properly, what is lime? Other than the fruit when someone says lime with no other specification all that really means is *calcium*. That's it.

we take for granted lime = *lawn lime* = *calcium carbonate*. But depending on context lime can also means calcium oxide and calcium hydroxide (i.e hydrated lime for mortar mix} which is more reactive with acids... so conceivable u could go by a 50 lb bag of hydrated lime for $10 and _make it work_. But don't do that- not cost effective and can easily get skin burns.

*barnlime (barn-lime)* is only this: some amount of lime (calcium carbonate). There is no hard definition on barnlime, so given acid neutralizing capability there is no spec on it like on "lawn lime" bags with calcium carbonate equivalent (CCE) and effective neutralizing value (ENV). Barnline is not just calcium carbonate * it is often also some amount of sand and quartz mixed in* (which further reduce ENV which is what lawn people want). Barnlime is for the barn (horses & livestock) to throw down to help clean and remove smell.

My tractor supply in CT does not carry waukesha brand (that i know of) but currently has pennsy "barn-grip". Waukesha brand is probably only available in a certain part of the country at tractor supply stores. Mine in CT has pennsy barngrip. You'll probably see some other brand. The key point is it is *barnlime or barngrip*. Note that the waukesha brand label as shown on the internet says _non-slipping_. barnlime / barngrip, basically the same thing. It has more emphasis on the sand and quartz and whatever grit mixed in for traction, and it's intendeded use is in a wet smelly muddy environment like barns and horse stables. Tractor supply website shows waukesha brand *non-slipping* barnlime, You do NOT want this or any other barnline for your lawn to adjust pH or increase calcium. If it gritty like beach sand. Problem with barnlime is it will have much less calcium carbonate, and likely no magesium. and be much less effective at adjusting soil pH versus a "lawn lime". It is not water soluble and it would be like dumping beach sand in your yard. i'm sure you could spread one 50 lb bag of barnlime in 1,000 sqft of your level 3 wriggly field yard and not hurt anything, but it would also probably not affect anything and be a waste of money even if it were $1 for 50lb bag. Barnlime / barngrip is most putting throwing down on concete in the barn that is wet from mud and urine, and somewhat on the muddy earth (where you might sink to your ankle) just outside the door.

you said "$3" at your tractor supply, mine has barnlime for $3.19 not including tax. depot/lowes generally has 40 lb bag of *pulverized (powder)* soil doctor lawn lime for I think ~$3.50 per 40 lb bag, and the corresponding pelletized soil doctor is ~$5.50 per 40 lb bag. I just found *$2.99 per 50 lb bag* of powered lawn lime at a local garden center, it was Nesco brand. I think the pulverized/powered bagged lime is going to be most cost effective, but you really need a drop spreader ($60) to put it down because the typical broadcast spreaders will cause a big dust cloud. the pelletized lawn limes work fine with a broadcast spreader but my better judgement tells me don't believe all the hype on the label or on the internet. pelleted lime is the pulverized lime (calcium carbonate) mixed with some binder to make it a solid granule to use in a spreader, so much of the weight of pellet lime is the binder not the calcium carbonate that you want. typical application is 50 lbs lawn lime per 1,000 sqft, these fancy label 30lb bags of pellet lime that cover 5,000 sqft are ridiculous. given my looking around I think the depot/lowes at < $4 per 40 lb bag of pulverized lime or < $6 for pelletized is very cost effective (considering your time, time of day, and gas driving around)


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## mountainmoron

r7k said:


> Is "Barn Lime" the same as other lime?
> 
> 
> 
> *NO*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to find a cost-effective source for lime.
> Tractor supply has Barn Lime at $3. https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/waukesha-lime-barnlime-50-lb-bag
> {waukesha barn lime"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> we take for granted lime = *lawn lime* = *calcium carbonate*. But depending on context lime can also means calcium oxide and calcium hydroxide (i.e hydrated lime for mortar mix} which is more reactive with acids... so conceivable u could go by a 50 lb bag of hydrated lime for $10 and _make it work_. But don't do that- not cost effective and can easily get skin burns.
> 
> *barnlime (barn-lime)* is only this: some amount of lime (calcium carbonate). There is no hard definition on barnlime, so given acid neutralizing capability there is no spec on it like on "lawn lime" bags with calcium carbonate equivalent (CCE) and effective neutralizing value (ENV). Barnline is not just calcium carbonate * it is often also some amount of sand and quartz mixed in* (which further reduce ENV which is what lawn people want). Barnlime is for the barn (horses & livestock) to throw down to help clean and remove smell.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I hadn't considered that it would have other stuff added in to suit it's specific purpose. If it's sandy, I wonder if it would be good to use to level a few spots while also adding lime in?


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## r7k

if the goal is to level a few spots, in a nice yard with turf grass, I would get whatever _quality_ top soil. While barnlime @ $3 bag is relatively cheap, it would be cheaper and better to get the proper topsoil to solve that problem first, then get powdered lime @ 4/bag to fix pH/Ca/Mg problem.

in the context of lawns and nice grass, barnlime is garbage don't use it. if i figure how to post a pic of some i have i will.

ironically- barnlime is advertised as smell reducing and fixing soil. it's only real benefit is the sand/quartz content for traction. for that always muddy area outside a barn door you sink up to your ankle, need a lot of barn lime (sand content) to modify the soil. and doesn't really work. hydrated lime (hydroxide not carbonate) can dry up soil and that's getting into _soil stabilization_ like in construction and u likely wouldn't be growing grass in modified/stabilized soil like this. And for smell neutralizing urine (acid) the cheap powdered bag of lawn lime which is basically 100% calcium carbonate is more effective than sandy barnlime with unknown CaCO3 content because of sand mixed in.


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