# New Lawn First Solo Reno - Grass dying



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Hello, Located in DMV (DC Maryland Virgninia) area and with my new house came weed infested lawn. A combination of advice from the seed store and a lawn guy has gotten this far but looking for some specific advice as to where I go from here.

Rough outline of what I have done so far:



8/26 Limed bring PH up a bit
9/2 Aerated + Seeded ( 2 passes) Pennington Signature Tall Fescue 50lb bag. 
9/2 Starter fertilizer
9/6 5 bales of straw
Watered 10+ minutes every day up until 9/29 - haven't watered since
9/26 Cut first time highest setting a week ago
9/28 more starter fertilizer 
Cut again today one setting lower (grass 2-2.5" after the fact)

So my yard is roughly 6k sqft give or take, mix of sun and shade. Soil tested right around 6-6.2 depending on where I took the dirt from. Lawn was 99% weeds when we moved in and this is the only picture I have of it right after I started nuking it with some 41% glysophate (home depot brand and Round up).










After 2 - 3 weeks of weed killing, mowed short, dethatching and digging out rocks this is what it looked like. I also laid about 10 bags of top soil over that bare spot in the low part of the front yard (will come back to that later).























































Seed + Straw:













































Today after 2nd cut:






















































*Now shit that I am dealing with...*
Some type of weed which started showing up before I laid the straw down, don't know what it is but its quite prevalent. Lawn guy told me I could use a broad leaf weed killer after the 3rd time I mow it. Is that true?



















And brown/wet/dead/bare spots...I think the dead/wet are just getting to much water from the sprinklers + flower beds? Also the grass is very thin in the bare/low spot where I put top soil. I did throw some more seed down but it just doesn't seem to do well there and I don't know why.














































Also I can't seem to rake up the straw because its pretty much buried in the grass (which is thicc in a lot places) or it pulls up the grass when I try to rake it. Ok to just leave it?


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## RozWeston (May 20, 2018)

Welcome! Do you have chickens? Or pets? That's an extreme fence for a front yard.

I was, as were SO MANY other people, in the same situation as you. There's so many people out here who purchased a disaster. But believe me, you're in the right place. The upfront costs can be minimized, the work can NOT.

I'll warn you, once you get some good seed down, and you start seeing actual grass - you're going to be on Kijiji looking for a reel mower - and when that happens, there's a forum for that on here too...

Its a ton of fun, but it never ends. Thank god.

best of luck.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Haha I have a french bulldog (he is in one of the pics) but I love the look of a framed hog wire fence and it allows him to watch the world go by when he is outside.

I put in the work no doubt, probably 40+ hours over the past month or so already. Willing to do what is necessary and want a pristine immaculate lawn so show me the way lawn forum.


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

I wouldn't worry about the straw, it's going to become organic matter over time. Some of the photos look like the grass might have got too tall and flopped over. This happens due to a combo of water and the fine new grass blades being too thin and weak to support it being tall. None of the spots look really bad but there is the potential you will lose a little bit. I would stop with the starter fert and go with a fast release like urea dropping 1/4 to 1/2lbs of nitrogen per 1 k. Needs to be watered in with a minimum of 1/4" of water and 1/2" would be better. You could do that right after the next mow. Give it a couple weeks and hit it again. Just be sure to keep up with the mowing. The weeds in that one photo could be hit with some Ortho Clover, Chickweed and Oxalis killer. Mix per the label (add a non-ionic surfactant-plain dish detergent will also work) and spot spray with a fine mist just enough to cover the weed leaves.

All in all it looks really good. It's going to get a little thicker each time you mow and it will thicken even more come spring. You've definitely done a nice job for your first reno!


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Thanks man...I agree it does look great but for whatever reason I am super OCD about it. Which is odd because I am not this level of OCD about anything else. I think you are right and that I let it get too tall but that was probably just due to my lack of knowledge about when to cut it.

Done with starter fertilizer, got a link to urea fertilizer that I should pick up? This work?

https://www.amazon.com/Easy-Peasy-Urea-Fertilizer-46-0-0/dp/B071WCW6P7/ref=pd_sbs_86_t_1/142-7022911-6862015?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B071WCW6P7&pd_rd_r=7b189e31-2992-4905-b1b9-417e638bf7c8&pd_rd_w=dwKYk&pd_rd_wg=TBLJJ&pf_rd_p=5cfcfe89-300f-47d2-b1ad-a4e27203a02a&pf_rd_r=E4H8F35JMAK0Q64K6X92&psc=1&refRID=E4H8F35JMAK0Q64K6X92

And that ortho killer it won't kill the grass?


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## ScottW (Sep 16, 2019)

That urea will work, but...
At 46% nitrogen (rounded to 50% for easy head-math), the 1/2 pound N/M rate means you need 1 pound of that fertilizer per 1000 sqft of turf. So on your 6K lawn that 5-lb bag would come up slightly shy of one app at the 1/2 pound rate, or not quite enough for two apps at 1/4 pound rate. So I would buy more than 5 lbs.
Urea can be found in 50-pound bags for about $20 if you have a farmer's coop or feed store near you, or a Lesco/Site-one, maybe a Rural King, etc. Forget the big box stores, they won't have it. The same places that sell urea will also probably have ammonium sulfate which is 21-0-0.

Ortho CCO would be fine to apply now. Generally "most" selective herbicides are okay on new lawns once you've gotten a couple mows in, but always check labels to be sure.

The pics from your problem area look like there may be some small yellow/brown lesions on the leaves. With it being unusually warm lately and you keeping things moist, there is the possibility of fungus. I'm in a similar boat but just seeded 2 weeks ago today and only 9 days post-emergence. I applied propiconazole this past weekend. However, you're farther along, backing off on the watering, temps are supposed to break with overnight lows getting well below 60 into the weekend, and with you already feeding N it might grow out okay without fungicide.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

You almost certainly have fungus activity. One of the picture shows melt out. Monitor those areas and if it gets worse be ready to attack with some fungicide. Most guys here won't wait even that long. If you have in hand, just go for it.
B


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> Lawn guy told me I could use a broad leaf weed killer after the 3rd time I mow it. Is that true?


Looks like it is coming along fine. The answer to your question is yes.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Ok...I will grab a bag of urea from the farm supply store as well as some of that ortho killer. What about fungicide? What should I be looking for there? propiconazole?

And as far as watering goes I cut it back from everyday to 3 times a week for 20 minutes per zone. Not sure if that is long enough for the depth of soil required? I guess I need to measure it.


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

Just be careful with the urea. Use a scale to weigh out the correct amount. It's pretty safe when used correctly but if you get careless with it things can go very wrong. If you have any questions post them here before making any mistakes.

You've already cut it twice so the Ortho CCO will be fine at label rate and will not hurt the grass.

I'm farther south than you and we finally have cooler weather coming in this weekend. If your temps are/will be in the 70's you can probably cut back to watering once per week. I would cut the grass, drop some urea and then water. Propiconazole should help with any fungus but the cooler weather will also along with cutting back on the watering.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@ForsheeMS

Adding a scale to things I need to buy. I called the local farm store and they have 50lb bags of urea so I will go by there today and pick one up. Will grab a couple bottles of that ortho CCO as well. However they did say its too late for a fungicide. Any truth to that?

Like I said today high of 93 but its been cool for the most part leading up to today...forecast is all low 70s/high 60s for the foreseeable future. If I am watering once a week how long should I water for?


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

Since you just cut yesterday and the temps will be cool, I would drop some urea at 1/4lbs of nitrogen per 1k (going light since you just dropped the starter Monday) and hit it with 1/2" of water. Depending on temps you might be able to go more than a week before watering again. Just keep a check on soil moisture and if it's getting dry and there's no rain water again.

On the weeds, get the concentrated CCO and a 1 to 2 gallon pump up sprayer. Much cheaper this way and you can mix up whatever you think you will need. Give it a day or two after the urea and watering and spot spray the weeds. Triclopyr takes time, especially with cooler temps, so don't expect to see much damage to the weeds for at least a week.

A fungicide app now definitely won't hurt although with the cool temps the fungus will likely go away on it's own. I would have some on hand because come summer there's a good chance you will need it to ward off brown patch.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@ForsheeMS

Not sure I follow...so if my yard is roughly 6k that would equate to 1.5 lbs of urea to cover it? Or do I need to do some kind of math of nitrogen < > urea to figure out how much I need to put down? Looking at this website it says 3.3lbs to cover 6k with 46-0-0 at 1/4 lb but not sure if that is right. http://agebb.missouri.edu/fertcalc/

I have a cheapy scott's lawn spreader that I have been using: https://www.scotts.com/en-us/products/spreaders/scotts-turf-builder-edgeguard-mini-broadcast-spreader Reading online regarding urea it says to measure out a 1/4 lb, then measure a 1000sqft space, start at the lowest setting to allow the stuff to flow and cover that area.

And as far as CCO goes I read in a sprayer 1 ounce to 1 gallon to cover 200sqft, I probably got at least 1500-2k sqft to cover of that shit. Can I just cover those problem areas CCO and be done with it? No way I can spray them individually.


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## ScottW (Sep 16, 2019)

1028mountain said:


> However they did say its too late for a fungicide. Any truth to that?


Fungi need appropriate temperatures and enough moisture to proliferate. Anytime those conditions are met, fungus can take off if you don't do anything to prevent it. Blanket statements relating fungicide applications to some date on a calendar, without taking other factors into account, are not accurate. Perhaps they didn't know you've seeded and been watering. The vast majority of your neighbors' lawns around you probably don't have fungus, unless they've been watering. Not enough precip around here lately.

Normally people associate fungicide applications with late spring moving into summer, when there tends to be adequate rainfall to keep things moist combined with increasing temperatures. You put down a couple/few apps of fungicide a few weeks apart in the May-June-July time frame, and then by late July and August there's usually less rainfall and not enough moisture for fungus to take off.

Your situation is atypical because regularly watering your seed has provided sufficient moisture, combined with unusually warm temperatures for this time of year. Continuously wet soil, hot days, warm humid nights (the overnight low at my house last night was 72 with a dew point around 70)... absolute petri dish for fungus. Now with the weather about to change (hopefully for good for the remainder of this year) out of fungus' favor and with your grass fed & growing, the damaged areas should grow out okay if you skip fungicide for now. But you will want some in your arsenal next year.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@ScottW I went ahead and ordered some fungicide, Ortho CCO from Amazon and picked up a 50lb bag of 46-0-0 from the local farm supply store. Now someone tell me how much urea I need to put down because I suck at math.


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## ScottW (Sep 16, 2019)

1028mountain said:


> Not sure I follow...so if my yard is roughly 6k that would equate to 1.5 lbs of urea to cover it? Or do I need to do some kind of math of nitrogen < > urea to figure out how much I need to put down? Looking at this website it says 3.3lbs to cover 6k with 46-0-0 at 1/4 lb but not sure if that is right. http://agebb.missouri.edu/fertcalc/


Yes that is accurate. 46-0-0 means urea is 46% nitrogen by weight.
6k yard at 1/4 pound per 1000 sqft means a total of 1.5 pounds of nitrogen.
1.5 pounds divided by 0.46 (ratio of nitrogen content in urea by weight) gives 3.26 pounds of urea that you need to spread.

That is not a lot of product, and a fair bit of turf to cover. Your Scotts rotary spreader will work fine; it's what I have. Set the spreader low (2 1/4 to 2 1/2 to start, and see how she runs) and walk at a good clip. Having to make multiple passes to get the product down is far preferable to applying too much product in a localized area.
Tip: If you're applying in a back-and-forth pattern, let go of the spreader's release trigger before you start your turn-arounds, otherwise it will drop little arcs of higher concentration while you're turning. Ask me how I know... 

If you know how your yard is split between sections in terms of sq ft, it can help keep applications even. For example my 5K lawn is ~60% back yard, 40% front, with the front 40% breaking down to 25% left-of-driveway and 15% right-of-driveway. I weigh out only what's needed for a particular section, then run the spreader until empty.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@ScottW

Thanks..just going off what @ForsheeMS recommended. Hard enough trying to figure out how much urea now I got to figure out how much per area of my yard? If I had to guess the front is 70%, side 20 and back 10. So if I want to measure the front I would just do 3.3 x .7 = 2.31lbs for my front yard? So on for the rest?


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

1028mountain said:


> @ScottW
> 
> Thanks..just going off what @ForsheeMS recommended. Hard enough trying to figure out how much urea now I got to figure out how much per area of my yard? If I had to guess the front is 70%, side 20 and back 10. So if I want to measure the front I would just do 3.3 x .7 = 2.31lbs for my front yard? So on for the rest?


Getting into the LCN world, I think it is time for you to measure your lawn. You'll never have to guess after. :nod:


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## ScottW (Sep 16, 2019)

Yup, you've got it. :thumbup:

There's no law that says you have to break it down like that, but I do find it easier.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

I just did that...measured everything but its hot as hell here today so maybe not so accurate because I rushed through it. Anyways to err on the side of the caution I spread a little over 2lbs over the entire yard with spreader on a 3 1/2, anything lower than that and the pellets wouldn't come out. But man it felt like I was out there forever making passes because it was coming out so slow.


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

The more you do this the easier it will get. Took me a little while to get it figured out. I break mine up into front lawn/back lawn. It's always best to set the spreader light and do multiple passes to get even coverage. That to will become quicker and easier as you get more experience with it. Even if the measuring was off by a few hundred square feet it's no big deal when going that light.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

One of the main benefits of doing 0.25lb N/ksqft is that the risk of screwing up goes way down. Even if you double apply in a area, it is then only 0.5lb of N, which is still fine.

Make sure you water in the urea and keep the lawn irrigated.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

g-man said:


> One of the main benefits of doing 0.25lb N/ksqft is that the risk of screwing up goes way down. Even if you double apply in a area, it is then only 0.5lb of N, which is still fine.
> 
> Make sure you water in the urea and keep the lawn irrigated.


I watered it in after I spread it. Keep it irrigated? Backed off watering everyday to a couple times a week.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Aka, don't let it get to drought stress.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Going to try.

Looking at the lawn this morning and there are a lot of thin/bare sports and not sure why. Looks good from far but far from good up close. Odd that it looked so good two days ago when I cut it but this morning it just looks tired and bare. I am learning very quickly that growing grass is a real lesson in patience. :|




























Also tested soil moisture and about 2 vs 4" down so don't think its because of a lack of water.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

What height are you mowing at? Looks too long to me. I recommend 2" or around there. Also, put your mower on discharge as the suction is much stronger and it'll help to pull up the blades so they don't mat when you mow.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@Suburban Jungle Life

Higher than that the first time and somewhere around 2.5" the second time. I will shorten it down to 2" and see if it looks better. Its on discharge but both times I cut the grass it was still wet (even after waiting 2 days) so it clumped and piled up in some places. I think its too long as well because any amount of water will cause it to lay down.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> @Suburban Jungle Life
> 
> Higher than that the first time and somewhere around 2.5" the second time. I will shorten it down to 2" and see if it looks better. Its on discharge but both times I cut the grass it was still wet (even after waiting 2 days) so it clumped and piled up in some places. I think its too long as well because any amount of water will cause it to lay down.


If the blade isn't hitting dirt in any spots, you could go one notch lower. Start with 2" and see how close to the dirt you are getting.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@Suburban Jungle Life

How long should I wait to cut it again? I cut it Tuesday, watered yesterday grass is still wet today.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> @Suburban Jungle Life
> 
> How long should I wait to cut it again? I cut it Tuesday, watered yesterday grass is still wet today.


I mow as often as I can so the new grass doesn't get much cut off. I also don't mow if it's wet since it tends to just be messy. Try to use the 1/3 rule. If you maintain 2" grass, then cut around 2.5"-2.75" since that's about 1/3 of 2". You might mow twice a week unless you put out a ton of fertilizer, then maybe more. Also, make sure to water at the crack of dawn or earlier so it's dry by the afternoon and mow then. If the ground is mushy in the afternoon, the soil is still too wet. I would water every other day instead or every 3 days. The top of the soil should be a little drier but not powder. If you keep it too wet, you get disease or at a minimum, iron/N chlorosis.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Went out and measured the shit, roughly 3"... so how much can I take off the top? I measured my mower blade to ground height and it was 3" as well give or take. Having said that is just cutting it going to solve those bare/thin spots? Nothing other I should be doing other than cutting and making sure its getting enough water?


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

Stop with the water! If your temps are now in the low 70's it should go close to a week without. Adding water is just going to make the grass flop even worse. Give it a few days to dry out and cut at 2.5". If you can find a high lift blade for your mower use it. A couple days after the 2.5" cut drop it and cut again.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@ForsheeMS

Water is off until Saturday but I will just turn it off completely for now. Temp forecast is low 70s high 60s for the next couple weeks. I think I already have a high lift blade on my mower which I just got before the first cut. Its this one: https://www.acehardware.com/departments/lawn-and-garden/lawn-mowers/lawn-mower-blades/7213812

I will give it a day or two to dry out, cut it, then cut it again in a couple days after that with NO water. I know I have asked this before but is simply mowing it correctly going to fix/help the bad spots?


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

Once new grass flops it's really hard to get it to stand back up. Mow in the afternoon when it's had plenty of time to dry but before the dew settles in. You can try fluffing up those spots with a leaf blower just before mowing. If you can either get it to stand up or get enough "suction" going on the mower to pull it up and cut it there's a good chance it will be fine.

I lost an area in my 2013 reno due to flopping over. Luckily it was early enough I had time to scalp the spot and reseed. You should know within a week if it's going to make it or not.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@ForsheeMS


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@ForsheeMS

Shiat, it looks like some spots it flopped over and just died leaving bare spots underneath. The grass in those specific sports is thin/yellow/dead and it smells. Other than reseeding in those spots not sure what to do with them at this point because I don't think mowing is going to help them. Do those spot repair bags of seed work?


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Thinking out loud...could I have seeded too much? Which is what is causing the grass to fall over, mat and wither away? I also noticed that a lot of the grass that is laying down stays wet. 3 days since I watered it and its still damp. Its windy today so hopefully that will dry it out so I can mow it again.

If I can't get those ares to come back is it too late to scalp and reseed those spots?


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

Going back looking through the photos my guess is the grass was allowed to get too long. New seedlings are tender and can't support themselves once they reach a certain length and flop over. With an overseed you have the existing grass around to help support the new seedlings but with a reno it's much more important to keep the new grass short enough that it doesn't flop.

I would still try the leaf blower which will help to dry it out and possibly fluff it up enough to cut it. If the lawn is smooth enough you could try dropping the mower really low like 2" and give it a go. At this point you really don't have much to lose. If it works roll on, if not you need to get those areas cleaned up and seeded asap.

I wouldn't go with the patch kits as it will likely be different seed. Use the same seed you did the entire lawn with. Otherwise you can end up with different colors and growth rates.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Makes sense and it was LONG before my first cut, at least 4" if I had to guess. It looks to me that in some places it flopped over got wet, stayed wet. clumped together and then died.

I just went and blew it and tried to get as much as I can to stand up, some places it seemed to help but others were too far gone to make any difference. How much time do I have to clean that shit up and reseed? Meaning I may be better off to do just that in the bad spots. And If I were to do that what does it entail?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

There is still a month of growing time here. Seed today. Definitely maintain it at 2" if possible for the rest of the year and early next spring. If you want to go higher, do it mid spring after a few mows.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> There is still a month of growing time here. Seed today. Definitely maintain it at 2" if possible for the rest of the year and early next spring. If you want to go higher, do it mid spring after a few mows.


Dang this shit gets complicated fast.

I am planning on cutting at today w/mower set to 2.5". I can seed after I mow but should I clean up or treat those spots prior? Starter fert or urea along with the seeds? I still need to ortho CCO as well but I guess I can just spot treat it because my plan was to just spray the yard with one of those ortho hose sprayers.


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

I agree with @Suburban Jungle Life. Go now and pick up more seed. Wait and mow the entire lawn this afternoon as low as you can go without scalping. Clean up the spots that have flopped and are dying and get seed down. You will still have to maintain the grass that survived while the new seeds are germinating. It's not ideal but very doable.

So far I haven't put down any seed this year. It's been way too hot and dry here to make it work. My lawn will continue to grow into December unless we have unseasonably cold weather move in. My front lawn only needs touching up in a few spots and the back will need a heavy overseed due to my 6 dogs (yes, it's a yearly thing). Probably get started next week since the weather is finally cooperating.


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> Dang this s--- gets complicated fast.
> 
> I am planning on cutting at today w/mower set to 2.5". I can seed after I mow but should I clean up or treat those spots prior? Starter fert or urea along with the seeds? I still need to ortho CCO as well but I guess I can just spot treat it because my plan was to just spray the yard with one of those ortho hose sprayers.


Cut as low as you can. Won't hurt anything. No fert because that will just push the grass that made it and cause issues with the new seeds. Can't use CCO now because you can't use triclopyr 21 days before seeding. If the weeds are in areas that don't need seeding you could spot spray those areas for now but I would just wait.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> > There is still a month of growing time here. Seed today. Definitely maintain it at 2" if possible for the rest of the year and early next spring. If you want to go higher, do it mid spring after a few mows.
> ...


I would mow it at 2.5" and see if you scalp anywhere. If not, lower it one more notch and mow it again. Then, maintain it there for this fall if you didn't scalp anywhere. Bumpy ground can cause scalping. I think you were mowing too high especially for being watered. Mowing high is good if you rarely water or there is little rain and it's hot outside. When it's cooler, the soil doesn't dry out fast and also, there is less daylight so less time for the sun to dry out the lawn. When you cut short, it dries out faster. Less fungus too. New grass is too thin and floppy so it should be cut short until it gets a little thicker. I only recommend cutting high in the summer if you don't water much or at all. If you do water in the summer, you don't need to cut it high at all. If you watch youtube and see pros like someone in TN maintaining fescue at 4.5", that's fine since it is really hot there. It's not as hot here. I don't recommend that practice in our climate except for the middle of summer if it is a drier summer. This past year was a wet summer so that wasn't the best.

I would use a tine cultivator after you mow it short. It doesn't work well on long grass. Rough up the patches a little, drop seed, and rough it a little after so the seed disappears. If there is too much cut grass sitting there, you can use a rake to move it over, seed, and then move it back if you want. If the soil is damp, you won't even need to water since the seed will be sitting against damp soil. It'll take a week and will germinate. Again, cut it once it's at 2" and don't let it get past 3". Cut often if you must. The more it is cut, the more leaves each plant will grow and it'll look thicker and thicker.

I wouldn't put out any herbicides. They can stunt new grass. Focus on mowing at this point after you put out more seed. Use the herbicides in the spring after you have mowed it twice.

During this last seeding, forget using any fert. Stick to your regular fertilizer schedule for the rest of your lawn. If you don't have a schedule, seed today and put out fert 2 weeks before halloween. It'll make it look nice for the trick or treaters.

I feel cultural practices are what make lawns look the best. Mowing frequency, height, watering schedules, sharp blades, etc. Fert and herbicide are second to that.

BTW, I always run my mower on discharge. I cut only about .5-.75" off each time so there isn't a point in trying to mulch it. On discharge, the suction is much strong also which helps areas which might be a little matted.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

ForsheeMS said:


> 1028mountain said:
> 
> 
> > Dang this s--- gets complicated fast.
> ...


+1

beat me to it!


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

I have left over seed so I am good there. Pretty sure I can get down to 2" without scalping as the lawn is fairly flat and level with little to no bumps. I don't have a tine cultivator, can I use a pitch fork or a tiller (battery powered Ryobi)? I have been doing it on discharge but the last 2 times I have cut it (first 2 on new seed) it was wet and clumped and clogged up the discharge without me noticing. I cleaned the shit out of my mower yesterday and got all the wet clippings out of it.

I got no fertilizer schedule so I guess now is as good a time as any to come up with one.

So..
+Cut this afternoon at 2.5" if no scalping cut again at 2"
+Check moisture levels in bare spots
+Clean up bare spots
+Seed bare spots 
+Urea (?)in 2 weeks


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> I have left over seed so I am good there. Pretty sure I can get down to 2" without scalping as the lawn is fairly flat and level with little to no bumps. I don't have a tine cultivator, can I use a pitch fork or a tiller (battery powered Ryobi)? I have been doing it on discharge but the last 2 times I have cut it (first 2 on new seed) it was wet and clumped and clogged up the discharge without me noticing. I cleaned the s--- out of my mower yesterday and got all the wet clippings out of it.
> 
> I got no fertilizer schedule so I guess now is as good a time as any to come up with one.
> 
> ...


Looks good.

A tine cultivator is maybe $20-30 at lowes and homedepot. It is a hand tool so it's definitely manual labor. It works really, really well. It also doesn't remove much of the old grass if you don't make a ton of passes. I like how it buries the seed under the top 1/4-1/2" of soil. In these temps, you wouldn't need to water it either. If you don't fancy the manual labor route, find some way to get the seed into the soil. A pitchfork could be fine if you use it to rake the soil but at that point, I would just use a cultivator. A tiller is too aggressive. I'm sure you have some grass there and best to keep what you have and add more. A tiller is starting over. You could use a metal bow rake or hard tined metal rake to loosen the top layer and seed, then rake once more to get it into the dirt. Again, that's manual labor and might as well use the tine cultivator.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Like this? https://www.acehardware.com/departments/lawn-and-garden/gardening-tools/gardening-tools/70105

or this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ames-3-Tine-Garden-Cultivator-2917000/206297044

If so I will pick one up and go to town. I just assumed I need to bare those spots and remove whatever is there already because most of it is dead or dying.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> Like this? https://www.acehardware.com/departments/lawn-and-garden/gardening-tools/gardening-tools/70105
> 
> or this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ames-3-Tine-Garden-Cultivator-2917000/206297044
> 
> If so I will pick one up and go to town. I just assumed I need to bare those spots and remove whatever is there already because most of it is dead or dying.


The home depot version. Roll it back and forth a few times and the top layer will be loose. Drop seed and roll lightly once more and the seed disappears. Walk on it gently to flatten it.

The dying stuff will just disappear as the new stuff comes up.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Update..

Blew it, cut it to 2.5 then cut it again to 2" give or take a tenth. IMHO it looked better at 2.5 because it still hid a lot of the bare and straw, closer to 2" you see more of the imperfections. Anyways I rolled the problem spots, seeded, rolled it again and then walked over it. I tested the top of the soil in those spots and its fairly dry. Should I go ahead and water the spots I seeded?


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

First pass:








Second pass:




































Not going to lie it looks a million times better shorter and I realize its a lot tougher for the grass to lie down when its that short.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Sorry. It's going to look like crap initially but it will be thicker by Halloween. Yeah, it shows the bad areas more but best to seed them and eliminate the bad areas. The grass, old and new, will adapt to the new height and leaf out and thicken up. It's hard, but try to be patient. It will look much better soon.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Water the new seed spots if it's dry. With the cooler weather and maybe rain Monday, you might not need to water again until Wed or Thur.

Did you use the tined cultivator?


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Yeah learning patience with this. Too patient with letting the grass get to tall. Haha.

Either way it looks way better than it did prior to all of this so I am ok with it for now. Yeah I used a tine cultivator (garden weasel) that I picked up today. Seemed to work but only time will tell.

I did spray the new seed down with the hose but nothing else. I haven't watered the yard since Wednesday. Not sure how to water it moving forward. And do I cut around the areas that I seeded once it starts to germinate?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Just water everything when you need to. Old and new. Using the garden weasel, it puts the seed under the surface. Much harder to dry out so you don't need to water multiple times a day. With these temps, water every 3 days or longer as needed. I think that tool is perfect for seeding. I wish there was an affordable motorized version. An aerovator is too expensive. Maybe we can petition sunjoe to make one?

When I mow, I just mow the whole thing and walk on the baby grass. It'll pop right back up. Just don't stomp your feet on it. Also, turn the mower around on the mature grass and not the new babies. The tire can tear out the grass when you tilt it back and spin it around.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Word. I have a sun joe power washer that I use to wash my cars .

At this point should I be making sure the soil (further down) is moist and not just the top? Being new to this it's easy to water every day but trying to figure out when and how much now that's the grass has established is still beyond me.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

10/7: Problem seems to be spreading...brown/dead/wilted/bare spots appear to be more and more prevalent.

Not sure what the deal is but it doesn't seem to be getting any better. Problem only appears to be in my front yard, the side and back (albeit much smaller areas) don't seem to be suffering the same issues.

Same spots from Friday vs Today and you can see how its spread:


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Is it too dry? Could it be fungus? Post a closeup of the blades in the bad area. If you seeded the bad areas, the old grass might be suffering and dying off from dryness or fungus but it should be replaced soon with new grass. Not sure that's ideal but hey, as long as it's covered eventually.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@Suburban Jungle Life

Don't think its too dry, been watering religiously and just recently cut back last week from advice on this forum. I watered it Saturday and Sunday (by accident) and the soil is moist according to my meter. I did seed some of the bad areas on Friday but not any more since then. Without understanding what is happening I am hesitant to keep reseeding.





































For reference here is the back side of the house, ignore the bare spots as that is just rock hard ground that didn't take the seed.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

I'm not a fungus expert but my vote is for pythium. If you catch it in the morning, it looks like white cottony stuff. It loves new grass and can spread quickly. The grass dies to the ground and usually only a few plants survive. It's a problem with new grass, constant watering, and warm temps. Now that it's cooler, that shouldn't be a problem anymore. No guarantees of course. I would reseed those dying spots. The new grass will grow and in 2-3 weeks, it'll be filled up again. For a little insurance, you can spray azoxy or mefenoxam.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@Suburban Jungle Life

azoxy or mefenoxam? I bought Propiconazole is that the same shit.

I cut back on the watering and reseeding makes me think I need to reverse that and start watering it every day again, is that the case? When reseeding those spots before I removed any of the dead shit to expose the dirt, weaseled it a couple times, seeded and then weaseled over the top to cover it. Essentially leaving those spots bare of any grass or straw, is that the correct way to to do it?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Propi doesn't control pythium. It works on other stuff though but not ideal for new grass if pythium is a problem.

Now that it's cooler, it won't dry out that fast. Since you used the tool, it puts the seeds under the surface of the soil so the sun doesn't hit them. They will need a lot less water because of that. When I do that, I only water it about 2 times, once when I put out the seed and once again about 2-3 days later. I have great germination. I don't even bother with peat moss or straw. I wish I had the energy and drive to weasel the whole yard but that's insane. I use peat moss for my main seeding and germination can be spotty depending on how wet it stays, how hot it is, and how much sun we get but the seed is just broadcast and sits on the top of the soil. The weasel really changes things up and makes the process quite different. Count the days from when you seeded with the weasel. You should see germination in 5-6 days.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@Suburban Jungle Life

I'll weasel the entire thing if it's a means to an end. I just want this shit to grow. Lol


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> @Suburban Jungle Life
> 
> I'll weasel the entire thing if it's a means to an end. I just want this s--- to grow. Lol


The bulk of your lawn looks good. I would just weasel the spots which need help.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> 1028mountain said:
> 
> 
> > @Suburban Jungle Life
> ...


Yeah it looked great a couple weeks ago but seemed to start going downhill and has yet to stop. Hopefully its starts to turn for the better or I guess I just start over next fall. :|


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> > 1028mountain said:
> ...


If it is pythium, you gotta hit it hard with fungicide. I doubt it'll come back. It usually melts to the ground and turns brown. Hence the suggestion to reseed. As it dies off, the new grass will emerge and with the cooler weather, hopefully it won't get pythium again.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@Suburban Jungle Life

How do I even know if it is? My problem is I don't know what's causing it so how can I fix it? Can I pick up that fungicide in store somewhere?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> @Suburban Jungle Life
> 
> How do I even know if it is? My problem is I don't know what's causing it so how can I fix it? Can I pick up that fungicide in store somewhere?


If you see it, usually early morning, it's white and looks like cotton puffs. Otherwise, you would have to send it to a lab to test for it. Azoxy is made by Scott's and it is a granular. Called diseaseEX. Use it a double the bag rate for a curative. This may only work if you got to it early. If the grass looks wilted, it's probably too late. I would just seed again. If you want to get the azoxy to help protect the new seed, that probably isn't a bad idea.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

7:38 AM and no white substances anywhere to be found on the grass. So I don't think it's that. Got a grass guy coming over tomorrow to see if they can shed some light on it.

I cleaned up and reseeded the bad spots yesterday.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

That looks like PB damage. If you stopped watering, it will halt it. The cooler temps also help. Reseed and keep an eye on it.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

How can I reseed and not water?


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@g-man And what is 'line PB damage?'


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

PB = plythium blight

 Purdue PB article

https://turf.ces.ncsu.edu/diseases-in-turf/pythium-blight-in-turf/

Check the fungicide guide on what to use. Limiting water will drastically help.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@g-man

Ok from reading that guide PB can be treated via Propiconazole - 3? Which would be considered 'good control; of PB correct? If so I have some already...generic banner max:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GTONG8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Cool to just apply it and see if it helps?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Neither the 2 articles or the guide mentions propi as treating PB. Propi doesnt help with PB.

Subdue is the normal go to, but $$$. Segway is another but even more $$$$$$$$.

Azoxystrobin (Scott diseasex, heritage) is another option, but not as good.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@g-man

I was getting PB and BP mixed up, my bad.

You are right that shit is money but until I am sure what is going on I am not going spend it. Hell I would end up spending a fortune on all the shit I have bought to end up with a terrible looking lawn. :|


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## Avalawn T (Sep 11, 2018)

That is what is going on. I delt with the same exact thing last year. Good luck hope you have plenty of seed. That's not going away without fungicide.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@Avalawn T @Suburban Jungle Life @ForsheeMS @g-man

What did you do to get it under control? Buy a $200 bottle of fungicide? The grass is wilted in those bad spots so I assume too late to treat??

At this point I am not sure what to do. If I can't water how can I reseed? And if I can't treat it then what? Do nothing and reseed/treat in the spring? Scalp the entire front and reseed it that way?


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## Avalawn T (Sep 11, 2018)

I scraped out the dead stuff and reseeded those areas. Hand watered them so the good areas didn't get soaked. I bought Scott's disease X didn't help much until cooler temps came in. Yes if I had it to do over I would have spent 200 on the fungicide. I did this year and it was money well spent. I suspect you used to much seed that caused this in the first place. That's what I did, rookie mistakes. So after you get all the dead out dont seed too heavy. It will be fine it's just a pain without fungicide. Keep at it, some of mine didn't mature until spring but it will. Whatever you do dont cut low and start over. You have a lot of good stuff mixed in that will thicken up. Worse case scenario you over seed in the spring and again next fall. I think it looks good overall.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@Avalawn T

I did use a lot of seed probably more than I should have but like you rookie mistake.

My problem is that more and more grass is dying every day so at this rate it will all be dead soon. I'll take another picture tomorrow and you will see how bad it's getting.

So I either have to try and stop the fungus, reseed or just do nothing besides mow and reseed in the spring. But having to hand water those spots is going to be near impossible due to how many there are.

If buying that $200 fungicide will help I'll buy it.


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## Avalawn T (Sep 11, 2018)

What is your weather like now? Day time and night time temps? If it's around 70s day time and below 60 night time. I would rake out all the crap cut around 1.5 and reseed those areas Lightly, water just enough 
to get the seed up.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Tomorrow high of 61 and low of 56. After that high 60s/low 70s during the day and 50s at night for at least the next week.


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## Avalawn T (Sep 11, 2018)

You should be ok going forward then. It sucks but get the dead stuff out lightly reseed and go from there.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@Avalawn T

I'll clean it up and seed it some more today. It rained last night so do I need to water after I seed those spots?


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## Avalawn T (Sep 11, 2018)

Man that really doesn't look too bad, yeah weasel it in and get the seed moist. Water isn't the enemy just not a ton. With the temps your having you should be good going forward. Remember light on the seed in the bare spots. Each one of those seeds turns into a plant that will fill out. Your going to be fine come spring and it will look amazing.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Had 2 local companies come out with 2 very different suggestions.

#1 Wasn't sure what to do, said he would call his supplier to find out what they thought the best course of action would be. Thought maybe aerating would help to thin it out but wasn't sure. Also didn't think it was a fungus. 
#2 Said to keep watering and let the grass grow and fertilize it one more time. He said no seed, no clean up, nothing. Just water, let it grow and fertilize. Said 3.5-4" is best for TTTF but that is contrary to what you guys are saying.

What they did have in common is both said it appears I used way too much seed. Which in turn caused it to crowd and contend for resources which then caused some of it to die. But how to fix it they both didn't seem to have an answer. I too think I used too much seed as I got a 50lb bag that covered 10sqft and spread every last one of them.

Either way I am going to clean the spots up, spot seed and get some water on it. Will fertilize again in a week or two and hope for the bast.


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## Mtsdream (May 2, 2019)

Looks like you raked out the dead stuff so they wouldn't really be able to spot the fungus that was there. That looked like the pythuim i had in my yard and i dont know if anyone mentioned it but you can spread it from walking in those areas, even watering can spread it, be sure to clean your mower too. As far as height of cut, 3.5-4 inch would be for mature tttf, likely in the heat of summer, 2inch in the fall for seedlings helps them tiller and get sun to the younger seedlings


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## Avalawn T (Sep 11, 2018)

That is why I read this forum and dont have a company do my lawn. Yes to your plan. It will turn out great just a set back.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Trust me there was more when they showed up. I know this because I just filled a trash can full of dead grass and straw. Didn't matter anyway because neither of them could identify what type of fungus it was.

Regardless I am just going to roll with what I have been doing as of late and hope for the best.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Been cleaning, seeding and lightly watering the bad spots as they arise. Everyday some more grass dies/wilts but they are no match for my OCD. Good news is the new grass I do have is nice and well established. I can rake the dead shit out fairly easily and the good stuff stays put. Also starting to amass my lawn care products and picked up an EarthWay 2710 for $100 yesterday:










Probably overkill for my yard but beats the shit out of the Scotts mini edger I have been using.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

10/12: fighting an uphill battle...everyday more death but there is life in the spots I seeded last week. At this rate the entire front will be weaseled and reseeded before winter.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

10/18: I went ahead and threw 8lbs of disease-ex down in the hopes of stopping whatever is killing my grass. Whether that, the weather or my constant cleaning and re-seeding stopped it I don't know but it seems to have subsided. My front yard looks like a mine field but a lot of the reseed has germinated and starting to fill in. Unfortunately I had a ton of spots that were cleaned up and seeded later still have yet to germinate.

Was thinking to throw down another app of urea today, .025/K ? There are leaves on the ground so I would need to mulch or pick those up prior to throwing it down? It rained a shit on Wednesday (over an 1") but I would still need to water the urea in?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

It's probably the cold weather. It helps stop fungus. Good thing you reseeded! It'll be full by mid spring. As for leaves, if it isn't a solid blanket, I would mow around 2" or so with the mower on discharge, It'll chop it up a bit but the suction will be strong and pull up all the leaves. You could also bag it if you wanted. I would just mow it on discharge and maybe go over it twice it the first time isn't enough to chop up the leaves. In the cooler weather, N doesn't volatilize as quickly and is more soil stable. I would just toss it out there and I think we are getting rain Sun or Mon. I would also mow before fert.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Did any of the seedlings look like this? Die off at the tip, fish-hook like shape? The seedlings then die within a day or two. That much damage at this time of year and no other explanation almost sounds like gray leaf spot. I looked at your pics and can't tell for sure with no close ups. Gray leaf spot typically takes out seedlings a couple weeks after germination.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> 10/12: fighting an uphill battle...everyday more death but there is life in the spots I seeded last week.


Just reading your other posts. This sounds a lot like my experience with gray leaf spot last year. Grass kept dying. Continued to reseed, died again. It only stopped after we had a freeze. I seeded around this time last year and ultimately, it worked out ok. Here's some vids I did on it.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_wP7m1rjXg


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@Suburban Jungle Life I have been weaseling the shit out of it in the hopes of saving it. Its germinating but because I had to constantly weasel and seed as the grass died off there are still a fair amount of bare spots waiting to come in. I spent some time today raking leaves and cut the side and back yard but didn't cut the front because of all the germination and new grass, I am afraid I am going to ruin or kill it with the mower because there are so many spots with new growth. And I pray that it comes in nice in the spring, I cant weed control at all because of the new seed and I don't want to have done all of this in vain.

@tgreen My lawn does look like yours in the second video but whether or not I got gray leaf I can't say. I never noticed any lesions or grass tips looking like the ones in your video but I really didn't know what I was looking for in the first place. Also I just started reseeding a couple weeks ago and its coming, just slower than it did initially so it appears that the additional seed is coming in OK so far.

My Seedlings didn't look like that. Initially it all came in super thick and lush then in a couple spots it would kind of fall over, turn color, mat, eventually turn brown and have SUPER shallow roots. I assume it has/had to be a fungus otherwise why would it spread like it did? Either way the temps around here have been mid 60s during the day and 50s at night (although 45 last night) so I assume whatever I had should be done now? I will take a closer tomorrow to see if I see anything like you have in your videos.

Here is a link to all my pictures if you want to look: https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157711151789263/with/48828929192/

This is probably the best picture I have of it showing the blades:


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Couple thoughts. First, your temps are not consistent with pythium or any other nasty tall fescue disease I'm familiar with other than gray leaf spot. Looking at the pics, the only one that is somewhat closeup is the one you show. I can't zoom on it but could zoom on that same pic on your flikr page. I do see what appears to be the tip die-off I talked about. You need to look very closely on seedlings. I tried to highlight below what I'm looking at.

Pythium is active down to temps of around 65F. That's not pythium. GLS on the other hand is active down to temps near or at freezing (take a look at the twitter post below). I'm not saying that's definitely GLS but I can't imagine what else would be taking out that much new turf at those temps. What is the coldest temp you have had this Fall?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1058450629021102082


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@tgreen Lowest temp was last night at 45. Yeah I see it and I have the pic below that I just uploaded to Flickr. But those pics are when the grass was done and raked up. Before it got to that point it looked ok, just flopped over then rapidly deteriorated once it got horizontal. I never saw any lesions but I will take a gander tomorrow.

If it is GLS from your video you said nothing can really be done about it? Other than reseed and hope it takes?

Another one


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

The lesions are very difficult to see on seedlings. It's normal with GLS that tall fescue will germinate, look fine and then die after 2 to 3 weeks. Take a look at the article below. It says 4 to 5 weeks but my experience was less.

I'm fairly certain just based on your description and temperatures that is gray leaf spot. It would have started a while ago when temps were warm. Once GLS is established, it doesn't go away until you get a frost or freeze.

In terms of an action plan, I would continue to lay down seed. You want the seedlings to germinate before a frost but before GLS takes them out. Once you get a frost, seedlings should survive. Not sure if you saw my video on the seedlings but take a look, that's exactly what happened to them. Keep in mind that GLS moves fast. Your seedlings may not look exactly like what I show in the video but look for the leaf tip die-back.

https://turfpathology.ces.ncsu.edu/2018/10/gray-leaf-spot-on-the-rise-in-north-carolina/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkH26OJogw0


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@tgreen

Ok so I have been reseeding only in the spots that died out via a garden weasel. Should I be reseeding the entire area including the good spots? The rest of the new grass seems well established but I want this shit to look good come spring time so will do what it takes. Temps aren't going to go above 70 until spring and will stay in the mid to low 60s and 50/40s at night. So in theory GLS should be done or done soon right?

I read the plant doctor (http://extension.msstate.edu/publications/the-plant-doctor-gray-leaf-spot-st-augustinegrass) Thiophanate-methyl treats GLS (Bonide Infuse Lawn & Landscape Granules or Scotts Lawn Fungus Control (granules) or Heritage G ? If so should I grab some of that and throw it down?


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

You are correct that t-methyl is the best chemical for GLS labeled for home lawns according to the research. However, I ran t-methyl and it did nothing to stop the GLS. I don't know how you feel about going off label but chlorothalonil is also effective on GLS but not labeled for home lawns. There is a product called Enclave that contains both plus a couple others (tebuconazole and iprodione) that could be very effective and is not labeled for residential. If I had a do-over, I would have run that product.

The thing is the temps are getting low fast. If I were you I'd skip the fungicide that may or may not work and I would continue seeding just the ares that are dying/ dead. The ideal scenario is this: your seed germinates and a frost arrives two weeks later. The frost should take out the gls but the seedlings will continue to grow.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@tgreen @Suburban Jungle Life

Cool, will just keep doing what I have been doing and hope for the best. Question about mowing though, how do I mow the established grass alongside the seedlings? At this rate I am going to have all different heights/ages of grass.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

I would just mow it. Make 3 point turns so that you don't spin the mower in one spot.

The reason I suggested pythium is, a few weeks ago when it started, it was 90's with lows above 65. I've struggled with pythium on fresh seeding and constant watering in these temps.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> I would just mow it. Make 3 point turns so that you don't spin the mower in one spot.
> 
> The reason I suggested pythium is, a few weeks ago when it started, it was 90's with lows above 65. I've struggled with pythium on fresh seeding and constant watering in these temps.


I would have said pythium too. It was a good call. I'm still not positive it's GLS but I don't know of anything else that destructive at these cooler temps. Would be nice to have a sample sent to a lab to know for sure.


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## sheepfescue (Jul 29, 2019)

Hello. If nobody mentioned yet, apparently that weed you have is called miner's lettuce, aka winter purslane.

Regarding your lawn guy's herbicide suggestion... it is my understanding that most selective lawn herbicides can't be applied until 6-weeks after the grass is growing, or turf injury may occur.

Apparently carfentrazone and quinclorac can be applied two-weeks post-growing. 2,4-D, dicamba, triclopyr, MCPA/mecoprop, and anything else should wait until 6-weeks.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

tgreen said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> > I would just mow it. Make 3 point turns so that you don't spin the mower in one spot.
> ...


Yeah. Could be GLS or even something else. Who knows. My fungus problems seem to have stopped. The grass hasn't bounced back yet but it's not looking worse. It was also 35 degrees this morning so I'm sure that helps. It's a good thing he reseeded. I doubt the first crop will come back. In our area, the lowest it gets is usually mid teens. I had new grass with 1" roots survive last winter so he should be fine.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Like I said whatever it is/was seems to have subsided. I would send it to a lab if I knew where and what to send to them. I also reseeded some spots today but its getting hard with all the different stages of growth going on. It's a guessing game if, when and how much is going to germinate.

I also went ahead and seeded outside my fence (roughly 160sft) which I didn't do when I reno'd my entire yard. I had killed it all prior and some seed got through the fence so there is some growth with NO death which is odd. Seems like whatever killed my grass stayed within the fence. Anyways I figured I might as well seed it today and see what happens in the spring. I weaseled the shit out of it, seeded, then weaseled over it. I will throw down some starter fertilizer but wondering if I should get some peat moss and or tenacity? Farm store has tenacity for $72 8oz but for 160sqft does it make sense to even bother with it?

@sheepfescue Thanks man but I can't really do any weed control at this point because of all the reseeding I have done. I guess I could spot it but it would be a pain in the ***. I do have wild violet which is a pain to pull but hoping I can deal with weeds in the spring?


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> I also went ahead and seeded outside my fence (roughly 160sft) which I didn't do when I reno'd my entire yard. I had killed it all prior and some seed got through the fence so there is some growth with NO death which is odd.
> 
> I will throw down some starter fertilizer but wondering if I should get some peat moss and or tenacity? Farm store has tenacity for $72 8oz but for 160sqft does it make sense to even bother with it?


As far as the area outside the fence, it could be 1) that it didn't get hit with as much water, and/or 2) you didn't have the straw on it and/or 3) it wasn't fertilized as much?

I'd keep it simple at this point. I would not start spraying tenacity. Just throw out the seed and cover it a bit whether that's with the weasel or peat moss. Whatever you did to establish it initially worked and I'd keep doing that.

For the disease sample, I don't know what state you are in but look for your state university turf pathology department on the internet. There are university extension offices thorughout the state, typically. You want to know how they want the sample which is usually on their webpage and then bring it to the extension office. Usually takes a few days for results.

Let us know when you get a freeze. Good luck!


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

I weaseled, seeded, starter fertilized and threw some straw down outside the fence a couple days ago. Not going to water that are at all to see how it comes in compared to inside the fence. Not apple to apples due to the time of year but a good test for me nonetheless.

Still a lot of bare spots inside the fence but I have reseeded all of them. Reseed is coming back but its sporadic at best. Hard to not reseed them knowing I already have but without them germinating it makes me question whether the seed took in a lot of spots. I tried to find signs of GLS but all I could find was a couple bent grass tips here and there but nothing glaringly obvious.

Took some pics from upstairs which really shows how much I actually lost.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

I remember going through some of the same issues last year. So much dead turf and all dying at different times and couldn't remember where I had seeded and not. Just do the best you can. Is there a freeze in the forecast yet? Are you still noticing grass/ seedlings dying?

I know you said the seedlings don't look like mine but I'm still thinking this is GLS. I don't know of anything else this destructive at these temps. If you can get a sample to a lab, that would be ideal. Here's a couple pics of my lawn last year after GLS and as of today. So, you may still be OK.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Yeah mine does look like yours hoping it does eventually look like your second pic.

You just cleaned up and reseeded the dead areas along with help from the weather? No freeze in the immediate forecast but I imagine early-mid November I would see some freezing temps. Not seeing much death anymore, tiny bit here or there in some of the bare spots but nothing like it was.

I emailed University of Maryland to see if they could point me in the right direction for a lab sample.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@tgreen

I forgot to post these two pics of some damaged grass..does that look like gray leaf spot?


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> @tgreen
> 
> I forgot to post these two pics of some damaged grass..does that look like gray leaf spot?


No, it doesn't.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Call this lab and ask for price.

https://extension.umd.edu/plantdiagnosticlab/sample-submission-forms


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

g-man said:


> Call this lab and ask for price.
> 
> https://extension.umd.edu/plantdiagnosticlab/sample-submission-forms


Alright alright...I will call them tomorrow. We going to crack this case boys.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Called the lab and they never called me back but I did reach out to them on email and they said this:



> Thank you for the additional photos. Your lawn actually looks really good now overall! You've done a very nice job with it. It is possible that you might have some gray leaf spot (based on what we can see in your first two photos) but turf-type tall fescue is pretty resistant to it, except in very rainy years. The grass usually grows out of it as the temperatures get cooler. It is not necessary to put down any treatment for it.
> 
> The earlier dying off looked more like a symptom of damping-off disease (Pythium). You may not have seen the white mycelium if conditions were dry and since temperatures have gone down now.
> 
> A very thick turf and/or lot of watering could have contributed to these issues. It is good to mow high during the spring and summer (2.5-"3.5") but in the fall you can mow lower (2.5") to prevent winter matting and potential problems with snow mold. You may need to do additional overseeding next spring, starting in late March.


Sounds like someone from this forum lol.

Anyways I reseeded a little more and tut it again yesterday and depending on the which way you look at the lawn it doesn't look half bad. Still lots of bare spots but the grass is coming back in where I seeded. At this point just hoping it comes back in nice and lush in the spring because I don't think it will before it goes dormant.










Wondering if I can I throw down some UREA? Will it make any difference to the already established grass?


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Thanks for giving us the update. If it were me, I'd play it safe and assume the GLS is still active until first frost. It slows down with the cooler weather but I don't think you're completely out of the woods. So, I'd stay away from nitrogen and I'd water as little as possible but while still germinating the seed. You shouldn't need as much water now with the cooler weather.

I linked to this tweet earlier in this thread but this is from the turf pathologist at North Carolina on November 2 last year when low temps were in the 30's and 40's but before a freeze. The disease was still active. If I didn't experience the same thing first-hand I would have thought this was impossible.

https://twitter.com/turfbutler/status/1058450629021102082


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

One more thought for you. As I mentioned I was not able to get a mow on the new seedlings last year b/c they were too immature by the time the weather got consistently cold and growth shut down. I wasn't sure the seedlings would make it over winter but they did and it turned out fine.

The tip I have for you is to be careful once the ground freezes. In my situation, the freeze/thaw cycle caused frost heave that spit out a lot of seedlings, roots and all. If you are clearing leaves with a leaf blower (or a rake, I assume) it is easy to blow these seedlings away. I am convinced that many of those heaved-seedlings actually survived.

I think you'll be pretty much fine next year so don't lose too much sleep.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Me again.

Still watching this grass grow...lawn looks better but nowhere near where I wished it would be. Have some germination but in a lot of places that I reseeded I got nothing and not sure why. Haven't reseeded anything since 10/25 in the hopes that I could germination across the lawn but it just wasn't meant to be. Although I do seem to have good germination outside my fence which is good.

Lawn looks good from the ground but from above you can really see the lack of it in certain areas. I guess if anything I have good stand and hopefully it comes back in the spring. But if it doesn't can I seed in the spring and still weed control? Just thinking ahead to what my options are in the spring.










10/22:









11/6:









10/22:









11/6:


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Some more...


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Back again with this and having some issues with weeds and what I think is POA ANNUA, can anyone confirm? I did not put a fall pre-m down but I did put down pre-m around the first week of march but it looks like whatever this bright green shit is came up prior to then. I can pull this or kill it with round up? And I assume my only option is to reseed those spots in the fall?

And about when does TTTF wake up? I see some growth happening but other places the grass is still short and a bright shade of green compared to the rest. But I assume that is the reseed I did after it died off after my reno last fall.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Not sure anyone is looking at this but I just wanted to post some pics I took today of my lawn. Overall I am super happy with the way it turned out. Still have some spots to figure out buts light years ahead of what it was when I first posted here. Have some POA A in spots but I figure I will tackle that in the fall after I seed again.

Hardest part of all of this is waiting for the first spring after a reno to see what it ends up looking like after all the hard work.


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## npompei (Sep 8, 2019)

Looking good! @1028mountain have you be spoon feeding N? It helped mine a lot. Yours looks nice and dark!


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@npompei Yeah I have been. Hoping everything I am doing continues to keep it looking good.


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

Do you guys go as far as calculating the area under the curve? Great to put calculus to use


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> Not sure anyone is looking at this but I just wanted to post some pics I took today of my lawn. Overall I am super happy with the way it turned out. Still have some spots to figure out buts light years ahead of what it was when I first posted here. Have some POA A in spots but I figure I will tackle that in the fall after I seed again.
> 
> Hardest part of all of this is waiting for the first spring after a reno to see what it ends up looking like after all the hard work.


Thanks for the update. Was wondering what happened. Glad it worked out!


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## CanadianGrassMan (Apr 25, 2020)

Thanks for updating


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## ricwilli (Feb 18, 2019)

Just read through the whole thread. All I kept thinking was, "I hope this does not happen to me when I start my Reno". I was anxious to jump to the end while reading to see how things turned out, but kept on reading. Lawn is looking really good. Glad it turned out great. Also glad that there are knowledgeable people around here that can help in situations like you had.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Thanks guys and yes there are knowledgeable people here to help. One thing I will say is that growing grass from a complete RENO is an exercise in patience, I don't think I have had to wait this long to see the fruits of my labor for anything else.

Here are some pics I took a couple days ago:


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

A hot summer and recent irrigation has left my lawn looking a little tired. Current state is a far cry from the pics above but hopefully with the recent work I put it in will get back to that stage.

Yesterday I cut short, bagged clippings and raked the shit out of whatever dead material I could get out. I then overseeded + peat moss and sprayed Tenacity today. Now just going to water 3x @ 10mins and see how it comes on.


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## Sayn3ver (Sep 12, 2020)

Just read through this entire thread. Hopefully I don't battle the same issues. Put seed down 3 days ago on my section of Reno.

After this thread I'm making adjustments to my timers to cut back on the water a bit.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Well shit since you bumped this I figured I would post another update. My first 'overseed' w/last years Pennington seed didn't go so well as the majority of seed I put down didn't germinate and the existing grass continued its die off for whatever reason.

So I went and bought a 50lbs of Newsome TTTF mix and repeated the entire process. But this time I cut it even lower, bagged it, raked the shit out of it, seeded, peat moss'd and then rolled it in. Had much better success but still a lot of seed did not germinate especially on my side yard. I have noticed is there is a pretty clear distinction between good grass and grass that died and needed to be reseeded but why that is I have no idea.

I had irrigation installed so hoping that will make things easier moving forward but what it has done is make me question if I am putting too much or not enough water. So a blessing and a curse especially when overseeding vs a complete renovation. I have some coverage issues on the side yard with the spray heads so going to have them replace them with MP rotaters.

What I have learned is even with everything at your disposal its still no guarantee that you will have a nice lawn.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Update,

2020 I overseed with newsome TTTF blend and it filled in nicely, I also had irrigation installed and I had that big oak tree cut down. Pic below is from 10/2020 after my fall overseed.










Now that the tree is gone I am looking to include some KBG in the mix this year as my yard is pretty much full sun now without it.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Most recent pics.

Lawn is doing well for the most part. Less is more I guess and finally just going to fall blitz it and skip the overseed this fall and see how it goes. Been spot spraying some weeds here and there but for the most part just water and fungicides. Been hot as shit lately and the grass has stayed mostly green throughout.

Also finnaly put my striping kit on and mixed results. Says on the box my zone is ok for striping and I'm sure the more I use it the better it will get.


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