# Finally found a product that works better than Glyphosate



## thegrassisgreener (Apr 16, 2019)

I stopped using RoundUp a couple of years ago because of the extremely harmful health effects of glyphosate. Unfortunately I didn't have a great alternative until now. I just tried the weed and grass killer called Burnout. Label claims it's safe and you can see results in one hour. I figured that was a stretch, but thought I would give it a try. I sprayed my fence line that was full of tall Bermuda and various weeds. Literally within a few hours everything was dead! I can't really speak to how safe it is, but good lord it is powerful stuff.

As for Monsanto, the company that created RoundUp, they are being sued by thousands of people across the country right now. They were recently bought out by the pharmaceutical company Bayer. I find it interesting that Bayer now owns the chemical that is causing so many health problems, and they own the pharmaceuticals that will be able to treat these problems. Brilliant business plan if you ask me.

No matter what product you decide to use, avoiding the use of glyphosate is in everyone's best interest. Plenty of research out there now about this stuff if you're interested. 14 countries have already banned it and the US courts are finally ruling against it.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

@thegrassisgreener What extremely harmful health effects?


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Also you can but citric acid and mix it yourself. I bought 5lbs to lower my PH.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

harmful? Compared to what. This is actually way more toxic than Glyphosate. Only reason why the patent holder for the chemistry is not in court is because they were totally transparent about how toxic their product is. http://www.spectracide.com/products...ectracide-weed-grass-killer-concentrate2.aspxThis is some old chemistry dating back to the 1950s. Up until recently, no consumer products containing Diquat existed. It was strictly a product for farmers and professional applicators. With good reason. I would rather get Glyphosate on me than Diquat.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

I don't think there have been any mammal studies that have shown any carcinogenic effects of roundup. The EPA just completed another study and investigation of studies going back to the 70's and epidemiological study in like 50000 farmers spraying it all the time with no cancer issues . This is probably going to pan out as people finding an opportunity to make a buck


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

So you went from using a product with a "Caution" label, to one with a "Danger" label because of the "harmful health effects"?Oh, and you "can't speak to the safety of it". Seems like a well thought out transition.

FWIW, the EPA continues to stand behind the science.

FWIW pt deux:"We are not alleging that our clients got cancer from glyphosate alone...Roundup contains animal fats and other ingredients that increase the carcinogenicity of the glyphosate." - lawyer representing the first patient to sue monsanto.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

The surfactants used in many Glyphosate formulations are way more toxic than the Glyphosate itself


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

I moved this into the general discussion forum. Let's please keep from bashing any one particular company regardless of opinion and discuss the product in the original post only. This is a topic that could get contentious quickly.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Here is an article that helps explain the effect of California's "Proposition 65" laws, and what is happening with these rulings out of California courts.

Worth reading with a little care for added comprehension....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/amp/Monsanto-wants-Roundup-cancer-lawsuits-moved-out-13907970.php


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Oops! Sorry, my post was still processing before the moderator post appeared....


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Just to help support and show solidarity with Monsanto, Bayer, and *"Big Herbicide"*, I plan on going out and buying some RoundUp, even though I don't need any or plan on bathing in it.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Three words that can keep you healthy and let you live a long life.

Personal protective equipment.


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## thegrassisgreener (Apr 16, 2019)

I'm not providing breaking news here. Glyphosate has been linked to numerous health issues for years now. It's only getting worse as more and more research becomes available. All I'm doing is providing an alternative for anyone interested. I found a product that works and wanted to share my findings. Take it or leave it.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

thegrassisgreener said:


> I'm not providing breaking news here. Glyphosate has been linked to numerous health issues for years now. It's only getting worse as more and more research becomes available. All I'm doing is providing an alternative for anyone interested. I found a product that works and wanted to share my findings. Take it or leave it.


I don't think there is a consensus of your perspective, not that there has to be.
Plenty of people agree to disagree all the time.

With that said, thanks for posting about an alternative product.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Movingshrub said:


> thegrassisgreener said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not providing breaking news here. Glyphosate has been linked to numerous health issues for years now. It's only getting worse as more and more research becomes available. All I'm doing is providing an alternative for anyone interested. I found a product that works and wanted to share my findings. Take it or leave it.
> ...


I also appreciate you pointing out an alternative product, @thegrassisgreener. My comments were not directed at anyone other than the California law that has created a situation where TV ads can create false perceptions.

And these ads get run on television to try and sign up more people to try and sue to collect more money for these lawyers.

The point I was making is glyphosate products are getting a lot of companies sued in California, because the laws there were written in a manner that favors personal injury (plaintiffs') lawyers who can sue these companies AND even if they LOSE in court can still try and collect their attorney fees from the companies being sued. Think about that.

These lawyers have nothing to lose in suing these companies. It has become an industry unto itself.

That is precisely why Monsanto is seeking to have these cases get taken out of the court system that prevails in California.

Starbucks has been sued for not putting a Prop. 65 warning label on coffee. That is one of a thousand examples I can give you that are just based on items being sold in interstate commerce, often over the internet, and the product crosses over into California without the California-only warning label on it, that product producer is going to get sued by these lawyers.

Monsanto is a big corporate target because it has deep pockets. So is Starbucks.

That does not mean the products are unsafe; it just means that the producer of the product failed to place a warning label on its product that it may cause reproductive harm, cancer, or birth defects.

A skateboard has to have such a warning if it is sold in California, if it is painted or glued with certain types of chemicals.

Millions of dollars have been paid to settle these cases, just so these lawyers can collect on these verdicts, or if they fail to prove their case in court, can still go after their attorney's fees...!

*It may not be because the product is actually unsafe*. The product may not have had the appropriate warning label to tell people it is made out of chemicals or may contain chemicals.

The media does not understand these nuances. The media just shouts out the headline of (ridiculously) huge verdicts because it make the news interesting, and people click on the story and read what the author states, but may not KNOW.

It's a free country (for a little while longer, hopefully). We are free to buy or not buy. But there is a major difference between being a consumer, and being an informed consumer. I will continue to use glyphosate, wearing my PPE.

And I will continue to monitor these lawsuits, when they are finally in a court system that does not have laws written to make business opportunities and create jobs for a state that has an overabundance of lawyers all looking for a way to make a buck, so they lobby the Legislature to create new laws that allow them to "save the children" and make bank. :nod:


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)




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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

I hope the moderators and administrators will allow this discussion to proceed, as long as it is a civil discourse on the topic.

I believe a lot of people may have questions about the use of glyphosate, and maybe this will help clarify the issue some....

I have no allegiance to any of these producers or retailers. But the media focuses on sensationalism too much sometimes.

And not for nothing, but I am not giving up my coffee for anyone or anything, state-specific warning label or whatever else!

 :lol:  :mrgreen: :nod:


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## ram82 (Dec 19, 2018)

last year after the first round up trial in California home depot put it's hdx glysophate and round up brand sprayers on clearance at the two stores near me.i believe Costco is discontinuing along with several cities that are banning use in public areas.i have been looking for alternatives because I know how crazy California is at banning.any suggestions for cool and warm temperature mixes for flower beds especially would be appreciated(especially for broadleaves in warm weather). i have sethoxydim and ornamec for grassy.just trying to stay ahead with the knowledge available to me from the forum before it to gets banned .thank you


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

One thing to keep in mind with alternative product is how they work. Most of them work by causing foliar damage to the plant. This works for some plants, but not all. For example, POA t (or Bermuda) you want to kill it at the root. Glyphosate will do that with multiple applications.

Glyphosate is a good product and if you use the proper PPE it is safe. Similar to water, you need proper PPE too (scuba gear or life jacket).


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

No comment on the gly hysteria (ugh, I guess that was sort of a comment), but the citric acid and clove oil product would seem to just burn down exposed foliage. Does that stuff actually work on established perennial weeds? I can kill tender young annuals by pissing on them. I've yet to see any supposedly "safe" organic product or home made remedy that actually works on tough weeds (without basically sterilizing the ground for a good while).


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## Banzai51 (May 29, 2018)

viva_oldtrafford said:


> So you went from using a product with a "Caution" label, to one with a "Danger" label because of the "harmful health effects"?Oh, and you "can't speak to the safety of it". Seems like a well thought out transition.
> 
> FWIW, the EPA continues to stand behind the science.
> 
> FWIW pt deux:"We are not alleging that our clients got cancer from glyphosate alone...Roundup contains animal fats and other ingredients that increase the carcinogenicity of the glyphosate." - lawyer representing the first patient to sue monsanto.


EPA is only using studies conducted by Monsanto (now owned by Bayer). These are private studies that are NOT peer reviewed. Other countries that are restricting glyphosate are using peer reviewed studies from independent sources. The link to cancer found isn't definitive, but the possibility of a link is credible.


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## TC2 (Sep 15, 2017)

Banzai51 said:


> The link to cancer found isn't definitive, but the possibility of a link is credible.


There is a ton of data on glyphosate given the length of time it's been in use alone. It beggars belief that after at least a couple of decades of scrutiny, the best that can be offered up is "the possibility of a link is credible". Given that you can't prove a negative, that's good evidence that the risk is very hard to find so extremely likely to be very low.

Assuming that a link is "credible" is the risk more or less credible than falling downstairs, slipping in the bath, ending up in a car accident, choking on a piece of food, or being hit by a falling tree (which happened) to name a few daily, potentially life ending, risks? Risk requires context.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

TC2 said:


> Banzai51 said:
> 
> 
> > The link to cancer found isn't definitive, but the possibility of a link is credible.
> ...


Well said. Where are the bodies? When RoundUp hit the market in the late 1970s early 1980s, it was advertised as a less toxic replacement for products of that time. Farmers and VM professionals handled it as such. They also handled a lot of the more toxic products still because chemicals are like tools. When you need a 1/2 socket, a hammer will not do the job. Pliars might sometimes. Maybe a box wrench, but it is cumbersome. But each chemical has its fit, so It is extremely rare that Glyphosate was and is used to the exclusion of all other products. I have not seen this brought up in the legal proceedings.


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

Glyphosate is used all the time in agriculture at much higher volumes, exposing applicators to a lot more of the product for entire working days. If there is a link / casual relationship, then it would be there. I'm sure that me as a homeowner spritzing a few crack weeds or even spraying a lawn a couple times for a renovation, I'm not going to be affected. I honestly feel that selective herbicides and fungicides pose a greater risk, since we regularly expose ourselves, kids, and pets to direct contact with them while they're still on the leaf tissue.


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## smurg (May 30, 2018)

samjonester said:


> Glyphosate is used all the time in agriculture at much higher volumes, exposing applicators to a lot more of the product for entire working days. If there is a link / casual relationship, then it would be there. I'm sure that me as a homeowner spritzing a few crack weeds or even spraying a lawn a couple times for a renovation, I'm not going to be affected. I honestly feel that selective herbicides and fungicides pose a greater risk, since we regularly expose ourselves, kids, and pets to direct contact with them while they're still on the leaf tissue.


Who lets their kids out on the lawn with an hour or two of spraying? Regardless of what product someone puts down, that's just negligent. Fungicides are some nasty stuff specifically.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Read the whole thread.

First, any Roundup thread will tend to go this way. Just how it is.

Second, I personally rarely use Glyphosate. I've gone years without using it at times. But when I need it, I need it. It does some things that nothing else does to my knowledge, and I would hate to lose that option due to regulations. Imagine not ever being able to kill Poa Trivialis or Bermuda, and never being able to do a lawn reno again...all the time, it'll still be sprayed on some of the roundup resistant crops because farmers (who are the ones in danger if anyone is from chemical exposure) will still be allowed to use it.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Green said:


> Read the whole thread.
> 
> First, any Roundup thread will tend to go this way. Just how it is.
> 
> Second, I personally rarely use Glyphosate. I've gone years without using it at times. But when I need it, I need it. It does some things that nothing else does to my knowledge, and I would hate to lose that option due to regulations. Imagine not ever being able to kill Poa Trivialis or Bermuda, and never being able to do a lawn reno again...all the time, it'll still be sprayed on some of the roundup resistant crops because farmers (who are the ones in danger if anyone is from chemical exposure) will still be allowed to use it.


The farm use is something everyone seems to want to forget. Our entire Nation and most of the world eats plenty of gly every day. Our bodies are daily exposed from the inside. According to the greenies and bohemians turned self appointed environmental experts, we should all have cancer, kidney and liver disease. Fact of the matter is, we don't.


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## craigdt (Apr 21, 2018)

If I were smart, I'd buy up several gallons of Roundup to hoard, before it gets banned.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Interesting post on ATY from 10 years ago. Search for glyphosate, inert, and film.


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## Alan (Apr 23, 2017)

For what it's worth:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/12/health/glyphosate-cereals-ewg-study/index.html


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Alan said:


> For what it's worth:
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/12/health/glyphosate-cereals-ewg-study/index.html


They also found traces of it in several popular wines and beers.

https://foodbabe.com/breaking-roundup-found-in-beer-wine-samples-see-the-brands/


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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

dfw_pilot said:


> Just to help support and show solidarity with Monsanto, Bayer, and *"Big Herbicide"*, I plan on going out and buying some RoundUp, even though I don't need any or plan on bathing in it.


Hahahaha this got me. Well done.


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## Alan (Apr 23, 2017)

https://fullfact.org/online/monsanto-glyphosate-cancer-vaccines/


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