# Ultramate LQ compared to AIR-8 and Ultramate SG?



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Let's dissect the 3 product labels and determine what the chemical similarities and differences are likely to be between the three...


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## smurg (May 30, 2018)

Just buy the humic/fulvic/kelp blend from kelp4less and spray it at .35 oz/M. That will be much more cost efficient.


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

If what John Perry says is true, you can't simply compare the % of ingredients on the label. They claim Air-8's aeration effect is due to bottling the leonardite/KOH slurry before the humic extraction process is complete so that the reaction is completed in the soil. From what I see in their product information, the Ultramate products are all simply humic acid products - they don't claim to be a liquid aeration product.


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## stotea (Jul 31, 2017)

Of course they claim their product is special and better. They want people to buy it! If it's actually better, where's the data that says so? And even if it is technically better, is the difference significant enough to actually be noticeable? As far as I'm aware, the jury is still out on humic acid in general, let alone the various manufacturing processes.


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## Drewmey (Oct 3, 2018)

stotea said:


> Of course they claim their product is special and better. They want people to buy it! If it's actually better, where's the data that says so? And even if it is technically better, is the difference significant enough to actually be noticeable? As far as I'm aware, the jury is still out on humic acid in general, let alone the various manufacturing processes.


The jury is already out on humic acid. There are several controlled university studies that have found multiple benefits.

With that being said, Air-8 isn't about the humic. It's about the KOH. The Ultramate LQ has K but the problem is whether it is K2O or KOH? And I don't think we know. I've heard it suggested here by someone else that the pH should be tested of the Ultramate LQ, and compared with Air-8. This d be an indicator of whether it is K2O or KOH.

On that note, I don't understand why someone else is suggesting humic/fulvic/kelp blend. Sounds like more of a replacement for RGS than Air-8. Which have slightly different purposes in my mind.


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

stotea said:


> Of course they claim their product is special and better. They want people to buy it! If it's actually better, where's the data that says so? And even if it is technically better, is the difference significant enough to actually be noticeable? As far as I'm aware, the jury is still out on humic acid in general, let alone the various manufacturing processes.


This is my stance as well, which is why I'm doing a test on it in a 10x10 plot in my lawn.



Drewmey said:


> stotea said:
> 
> 
> > Of course they claim their product is special and better. They want people to buy it! If it's actually better, where's the data that says so? And even if it is technically better, is the difference significant enough to actually be noticeable? As far as I'm aware, the jury is still out on humic acid in general, let alone the various manufacturing processes.
> ...


The process to extract humic acid from leonardite shale is basically to soak the shale in a KOH solution. Air-8 isn't Air-8 because they take humic acid and add 5% KOH to it, it's created by grabbing some of the sauce as it's simmering in the pot. Allegedly that reaction continues within the soil, which creates the microfractures claimed to aerate the soil. My hypothesis is that this is why you can't replicate Air-8 simply by taking reconstituted humic and adding KOH to it: because the humic has already been fully extracted and separated, so there is no leftover reaction to take place in the soil.

So even if you find that one of these products has an identical % of active ingredients, it still might not give you the same reaction as Air-8.


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## Drewmey (Oct 3, 2018)

adgattoni said:


> The process to extract humic acid from leonardite shale is basically to soak the shale in a KOH solution. Air-8 isn't Air-8 because they take humic acid and add 5% KOH to it, it's created by grabbing some of the sauce as it's simmering in the pot. Allegedly that reaction continues within the soil, which creates the microfractures claimed to aerate the soil. My hypothesis is that this is why you can't replicate Air-8 simply by taking reconstituted humic and adding KOH to it: because the humic has already been fully extracted and separated, so there is no leftover reaction to take place in the soil.
> 
> So even if you find that one of these products has an identical % of active ingredients, it still might not give you the same reaction as Air-8.


Totally agree. I guess I should have said that it is about the reaction that the KOH creates. But I also have no idea whether Ultramate LQ has or doesn't have the same unreacted KOH/shale.


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