# Help with shopping list



## TheSwede (Jul 10, 2018)

Found this forum a couple weeks ago and I instantly fell in love with it! Yes, I am from Sweden, and the reason I am posting here and not in a Swedish or European forum is because there simply are no Swedish lawn care forums worth joining, and my french is really bad .

Anyway, to make a long story short (hehe, at least I'll try my best), I bought a house 6 years ago and the garden was in absolute awful condition. The lawn was just weeds and moss, the hedges hadn't been trimmed for decades etc and I decided I would bring that garden back to where it should be. Fitst up was trying to get some sort of a lawn back in the garden. Now, in Sweden, the regulations for non-professionals using pesticides is strictly regulated. In 2013 the only available pesticides for non-professional use was ridiculously watered out Glyphospate, and then acetic acid for non-selective herbecides (!). MCPA mixed with ample amounts of fertilizer and iron sulphate was w´hat was available for lawn nerds as selective weed killing. Now, in 2017, Glyphosphate and MCPA was banned for "non-professional use", together with acetic acid (probably because it stings if you accidently spray it directly into you eye...).

I started out applying iron sulphate in early spring 2013 and late fall to kill off the moss and the following year I applied insanely expensive MCPA fertilizer to kill off the weeds with mixed reslults. In Summer 2014 I realized that the free trade policy within EU could be used to get my hands on some slightly more potent weed killers, and I finally got a decent lawn in 2016.

The last two years has been really bad for the lawn with extreme drought during summer months. Last year I managed to keep the lawn from going completely dormant by spending a ridiculous amount of time irrigating the lawn more or less manually (in Sweden, pop-up irrigation systems for lawns in residential gardens are unusual, because usually they are unnecessary).

Fast forward to 2018 and my lawn is a mess. It was seeded as s a mix of mostly perennial rye with some KBG and red fescue(?) by the clueless previous homeowner 40 years ago and after two years of bad summers and me beeing unable to keep up with irrigation it is now 95% is dormant, and all kinds of weeds are popping up...so I have decided I'll go for an irrigation system. This year I have built a drip-irrigation system for

With that said, I travel quite a lot in work and since I'll be in Huston in early September my plan is to order a variety of the more potent stuff you guys use and then hand-carry it over the border .

So, what do I need for a lawn with my mix? The irrigation is pretty much already sorted -I have a RainBird system planned ,sized and delivered (I just have to find someone that can put it into the ground. for a reasonable cost... But when it comes to pesticides etc. I am needing some advice what to buy for my lawn:


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Well I think it depends. What you should buy depends on what you need. What are the main types of weeds you are trying to take care of? It's difficult to really say what pesticides you should buy without knowing more of what you are trying to kill. Are you able to get pre e where you live? That is a important one to use to prevent weeds from germinating. It's good that you now have a irrigation system and you seem to be getting on the right track. With a mix of rye fescue and kbg you can do a overseed when you get closer to your fall season and see how that goes.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

We have some member from Europe that also have to deal with the government restrictions. @Hieronymus @OttarLM @Richard Slater @ales_gantar Maybe they could help with sourcing local items.

I would think the two most useful ones the get would be Prodiamine and Tenacity. I doubt you will get in trouble, but you know this would be breaking the law. The next 3 would be a 3way product (Weed b Gon); tryclopyr and round up. You should be able to deal with any weed with these products.

The next one would be something for fungus, but this is hard without knowing what is giving you trouble.


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## Hieronymus (May 22, 2018)

You can try to buy some prem in the US, but I doubt you will get thru customs. Here in the Netherlands I can only use post emergents. I use products from Luxan it's called Primestar and works with most weeds. Accept Poa Annua. You will have to live with that or spot spray and seed.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Sail your own boat across the ocean?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

He plans to do just that:


> I'll be in Huston in early September my plan is to order a variety of the more potent stuff you guys use and then hand-carry it over the border


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## TheSwede (Jul 10, 2018)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Well I think it depends. What you should buy depends on what you need. What are the main types of weeds you are trying to take care of? It's difficult to really say what pesticides you should buy without knowing more of what you are trying to kill. Are you able to get pre e where you live? That is a important one to use to prevent weeds from germinating. It's good that you now have a irrigation system and you seem to be getting on the right track. With a mix of rye fescue and kbg you can do a overseed when you get closer to your fall season and see how that goes.


When I read my post now I realize that my post was a bit unclear and that I managed to delete part of the text i posted  ... But, rather than trying to edit the post, it might be better to just summarize what I would like to do with the lawn:

Kill off the leafy weeds -in the area where I live pretty much every lawn has problems with dandelion, daisy, white clover and lesser trefoil.
Eliminate Poa Annua and crab grass.
Lower the percentage of ryegrass in the lawn and increase KBG and red fescue.
Eliminate a big fairyring in the front yard.

Pre e is not easy to buy even for professionals, I'd had to start an onion farm(!) to get my hands on that in Sweden :lol:.


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## TheSwede (Jul 10, 2018)

Hieronymus said:


> You can try to buy some prem in the US, but I doubt you will get thru customs.


When buying US products I don't want to ship it for that reason -I'll simply carry it through customs myself :mrgreen:. I have done 100+ trips to the US the past 10 years or so and not once have I been stopped by the EU customs when returning  . 


Hieronymus said:


> Here in the Netherlands I can only use post emergents. I use products from Luxan it's called Primestar and works with most weeds. Accept Poa Annua. You will have to live with that or spot spray and seed.


Thanks for the info, I really appriciate it". I've applied Scott's Weedol (Fluroxypyr ,Clopyralid, MCPA) and Westland Resolva (Mecoprop-P ,Dicamba) that I bought from the UK (because the sites are in english -i speak a little german as well and I have found a site there as well that sells similar mixes under german brand names) but even if I buy the "concentrated" stuff it will take several bottles to cover my yard and it is expensive even without the shipping cost...


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## TheSwede (Jul 10, 2018)

g-man said:


> He plans to do just that:
> 
> 
> > I'll be in Huston in early September my plan is to order a variety of the more potent stuff you guys use and then hand-carry it over the border


Yes, and after reading up on the new regulations it is actually the act of selling or distributing pesticides to non-licenced persons that has been banned, not the application of it.

What pisses me off is that I, as a homeowner, suddenly am not allowed to buy any pestecides or fungicides for my lawn whatsoever, but the local golf course less than a mile away are allowed to more or less soak their turf with whatever pesticide, fungicide or what not every other day if they wanted.

Civil Disobedience? Check! :twisted:


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## TheSwede (Jul 10, 2018)

g-man said:


> We have some member from Europe that also have to deal with the government restrictions. @Hieronymus @OttarLM @Richard Slater @ales_gantar Maybe they could help with sourcing local items.
> 
> I would think the two most useful ones the get would be Prodiamine and Tenacity. I doubt you will get in trouble, but you know this would be breaking the law. The next 3 would be a 3way product (Weed b Gon); tryclopyr and round up. You should be able to deal with any weed with these products.
> 
> The next one would be something for fungus, but this is hard without knowing what is giving you trouble.


Thanks for the input -I've been reading up on Prodiamine and Tenacity and haven't really figured out if they complement each other or if you just need one of them. You say I should put both on my shopping list? Roundup is a given -I can source that from other EU countries but I might as well pick up some concentrate in the US (EU concentrates for home owners are far more diluted I believe).


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

I just have to say how awesome this site is. With all the crap going on with the US and other countries we can all get on here and talk lawn care. I realize the US and Sweden have a fairly good relationship but there have been some bumps in the road lately. It just makes me smile that lawn care can bring the world together. Sorry if that sounds like a folk song.


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## JohnP (Oct 24, 2017)

Prodiamine is a pre emergent and Tenacity is a post emergent. You can use Tenacity as a pre emergent but it doesn't have the residual of Prodiamine.


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## Hieronymus (May 22, 2018)

TheSwede said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > He plans to do just that:
> ...


When golf courses can use these products in Sweden why don't you buy it of them? Or let someone come over and do it for you. Here in the Netherlands even golf courses can't use these products. The pull out the Poa by hand from the greens.


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## TheSwede (Jul 10, 2018)

JohnP said:


> Prodiamine is a pre emergent and Tenacity is a post emergent. You can use Tenacity as a pre emergent but it doesn't have the residual of Prodiamine.


Ah, that makes sense, thanks -will get them both, then!


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## TheSwede (Jul 10, 2018)

Hieronymus said:


> When golf courses can use these products in Sweden why don't you buy it of them? Or let someone come over and do it for you. Here in the Netherlands even golf courses can't use these products. The pull out the Poa by hand from the greens.


Actually, to my knowledge pre-ems are generally not allowed in Sweden either except for onion-farming(!) so it is the same thing for golf courses in Sweden as for the Netherlands I believe, but when it comes to selective weedkillers, fungicides and non-selective weed killers they can use pretty much whatever they like.

When it comes to buying from a golf course or a farmer it all boils down to trust and personal relationships with the greenkeepers or the farmers, since they have a license for the golf-course or the crop they are cultivating, but not for taking care of the weeds in my yard. I don't have those connections...


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## Hieronymus (May 22, 2018)

If it's only about the weeds you should try the Luxan product. It's 20 euro's. First time you use it you will probably need 1 1/2 or 2 bottles. But than you can start spot spraying, you won't need that much anymore. I use about a half bottle per year now.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Ues @g-man we have restrictions, so we can only buy dicamba and some other things against broadleaf weeds. I can call someone to spray Tenacity (we have another name) and simmilar restricted stuff, but I learned that it only takes 2 afternoons of lectures and 70€ to get a license, so that's my plan.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Awesome, how is the yard this year?


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Compared to last year it is better, since it is getting sufficient ammounts of N and Fe, but currently I need a week or two to bring it back to greenness, since I just returned from my vacation.


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## TheSwede (Jul 10, 2018)

Back in the civilization again after having spent a week at our old family homestead in the middle of nowhere that happen to be uncomfortably close to one of bigger wildfires raging in the northern parts of the country right now. Missed us by about a mile but still way closer than comfort with four Canadair 415 just constantly scooping up water in the lake next to our homestead for several days before moving on...

Anyway, I had to rethink the purchase strategy since I realized that most airlines classify these products as hazardous material. So, I had to come up with a Plan B. Plan B is to use a freight forwarder, and after reading up on a few other forums I seem to have found one that will be able to ship the items to me, so I figured I'll give it a try... The items still might get caught in the customs, but that's a risk I am willing to take. Since the PGR I was thinking of getting was quite expensive I thought I'd first try with a slightly smaller order to see if it gets through, so I ordered 5lb of Prodiamine, 8oz of Tenacity and some 41% Glyphosate.

If that gets through, I'll try my luck with ordering a gallon of T-Nex and perhaps some other stuff as well. Fingers Crossed!


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## TheSwede (Jul 10, 2018)

Herbicides in da house!


As expected, my "trial order" went through customs without any problems  .
I think I'll step up the game and try my luck with some PGR next... I'm thinking of ordering a gallon of T-Nex or do you reccomed something else?

Perhaps this question should be asked in another subforum but I also have some paved paths where grass and other weeds have partly taken over -should I just use glyphospate on it or is there a better, more long-term solution to keep the paths weed free?

By the way, I must say I really like the tone in this forum -always positive and helpful! :thumbup:


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Wow! Jackpot!! You can use glyphosate and prodiamine to stop new growth.


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## TheSwede (Jul 10, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Wow! Jackpot!! You can use glyphosate and prodiamine to stop new growth.


Thanks -I kind of figured the two would make a good combo with the gly killing everything off and the Prodiamine to prevent seeds from growing. Life will be soooooooo much easier now -it has been a monumental PITA to keep the paving reasonably free from weeds and grass without an effective weedkiller at hand...


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## PokeGrande (Mar 25, 2018)

:clapping:


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