# MOOCH91's 2020 POA TRIV adventure



## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

All,

I'm using coronavirus downtime (hope you all are staying healthy!) to plan a significant clean-up of poa trivialis in my lawn.

I have a 2.25 acre property, with about 1.5 acres of lawn, northern mix, though any areas I've renovated over the last few years have been a TTTF/KBG mix. I am guessing I've got about 15% of poa triv coverage. All of it is in shady spots, and most seems to follow a natural drainage path of water through the yard.

To be honest, I'm not sure it's poa triv, or at least not all poa triv. I've often wondered if it's:
some shade tolerant poa that has lime green color
some fine fescue with lime green color
some KBG that has become deficient in some nutrient giving it lime green color
some change to the northern mix planted on the property due to the shade or wetness

I definitely have patches of roughstalk grass, with the characteristing ligule, but some of it is very fine bladed and dense, yet shallow rooted.

I honestly don't know where the triv came from. I've been in the house 6 years, and went back o pictures from my first spring in the house, and I can't see any. Now it can't be missed. Only thing I can think I possibly did was to throw down some cheap seed one time when I was trying to clean up the ruts from my first zero-turn mower use on the property. Some of the bigger patches might be in those locations. I'm convinced it followed the path of water flow, and must have been seed transfer because there are some big gaps in between patches.

My gameplan is to do a springtime kill and re-seed with TTTF. I know spring is the best time to kill triv yet the worst time to grow grass. I'm hopeful that being mostly shade, I shouldn't deal with too much crabgrass pressure. Being irrigated, I am hoping I can keep it thriving throughout the season.

I've been frustrated by this mess for years. The past few days I had been gearing up for the season, cleaning the mower, sharpening the blades; took a walk around the property and remembered how bad the triv has gotten.

Pictures to follow.


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

One of the lawn at its finest. There are patches of triv in this portion of the backyard, but only a couple of very small ones. As you can see, it's a largely sunny area.


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

Here is a couple from a few springs ago, along the left side of the property, adjacent to a drainage easement (water generally flows through this patch during heavier rains). I'm guessing it's 3-4K sq ft in this patch.

In the foreground of the second picture you can see what definitely seems to be poa triv. In the background is the finer bladed lime green grass. May be poa triv in a different growth stage, or something different. Nonetheless, both blotchy and ugly.


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

This is a current pic of the right side of the house where the growth has increased over the past couple of years. I marked out the boundaries of the patches to aid in rounding-up later. Less wet, but plenty shady over on this side.


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

And evidence that some of it is triv:



Though some is wrinkly which might be evidence of poa annua too, like I said, quite a mix:


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

Now I wait for it to grow in and become very obvious before glyphosate...


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## Wolverine (Jan 17, 2018)

That's a real kick in the balls. Definitely be done with aeration and dethatching.


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

Wolverine said:


> That's a real kick in the balls. Definitely be done with aeration and dethatching.


Interestingly I aerated the property once. And if I recall correctly, that was a year before I re-seeded a significant portion of the very back of the property. The triv is starting to show in the re-seeded area, so I'm not sure if the aeration had anything to do with the spread.

Funny too, I purchased an aerator a couple of years back thinking I'd be using it on the property every year. It's just sat in the shed since that time.


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

All,
I have a little time during lunch with work-from-home today, the rain has dried up, and I was going to apply my Dimension pre-emergent. I know I must take care around the triv areas if I'm planning to re-seed in the spring. Thoughts on how much of a distance I should maintain? Unfortunately the triv areas are mostly "downhill", so I am assuming I should avoid anything on the uphill side as well. Should make for a fun crabgrass battle later this summer. 
Thanks!


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Try covering the areas to be seeded with cardboard, so the PreM skips off it.


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

Chris LI said:


> Try covering the areas to be seeded with cardboard, so the PreM skips off it.


They are big, fairly easy to miss with the spreader. I was more concerned about wash-down in to the areas. I suspect I had an issue with a small spring seeding last year because it was downhill within 10' of an area where I had spread pre-emergent.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

mooch91 said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> > Try covering the areas to be seeded with cardboard, so the PreM skips off it.
> ...


Gotcha. PreM should be watered in for efficacy. Make sure the soil has some moisture in it, but not saturated. Then, lightly water it in, but not enough to cause runoff. The soil reacts like a sponge. If it's bone dry, water will runoff like water off a duck's back. If it's already saturated, that could also cause runoff.


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

OK, so the kill started this weekend. It might be a little early as all the grass hasn't come out of dormancy yet, but the triv was growing tall, so I figured it was worth a start. I know I'll be coming back for a second application for sure. I don't have a drone, but I have a couple of pictures to give some perspective on the kill. I'm figuring about 5000 sq ft on both sides of my yard.

Here are some approximate shots of the bigger area I glyphosated (2.5 oz/gal 41% gly):





And the smaller area on the other side of the house:


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

The more I look at my situation, I'm concluding two things:
1. I think my issues are a combination of some shade-thriving fine fescue AND poa triv. Both are pale and ugly. Most of the bigger areas I think are, in fact, a fine fescue - very fine bladed, light green grass.
2. I'm convinced I've brought in the triv myself. I've been using a combination of 85% TTTF and 15% KBG when I renovate sections, and all renovated sections are showing small patches of triv. They seem to "go away" during the summer, and not in a terrible way, they kind of disappear. But they always come back bigger in the spring.

Here is a shot of a renovated area I did 5 years back:



And here is one I did less than 2 years ago:



For the KBG, I've always used the Scotts seed. The TTTF has been a local seed supplier variety.

I'm going with 100% TTTF from this point on because I believe the potential for contamination with triv is a whole lot less due to the size of the seed.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Just a question. When did you last put seed down? Last fall?


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

Stuofsci02 said:


> Just a question. When did you last put seed down? Last fall?


Yes.

I've been renovating a small area each fall.

The picture of the first renovated area (with the trees) was completed 5 years ago.

The picture of the second renovated area (with the manhole cover) was completed a year and a half ago.

I renovated a third area last fall. No triv there yet that I can see, just some broadleaf and annual rye.


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

I know they are only shots from my window, and not the clearest, but death is beginning;


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## Wolverine (Jan 17, 2018)

Scott's seed is likely your problem. Purchase seed from a reputable dealer that offers blue or preferably gold tag certified seed. Give Hogan seed in Tennessee a call. Great people and customer service.


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

Some updates from today. Grass death continues. Clearly I missed some spots in the larger area I'm killing off. Completed a second full app of glyphosate (2 oz/gal of 41%) yesterday. It's still early in the growing season here, plus these are more shaded areas, so I suspect these are part of the reason for the fairly slow kill.


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

Coming on to being pretty dead now. One area has been slower to kill, presumably because of the cooler weather. WIll post updated death pictures shortly.

I imagine most of you will tell me it's a bad idea to punch some holes in the dead turf with an aerator before seeding?

I'm concerned about my ability to scalp the dead turf low enough to allow seed-soil contact and enough light to come through. I'm going to use my 21" push mower, and will bag what I cut, but from my recollection of doing this in the past, there is usually still a layer of dead grass that may make germination during an already difficult time more difficult. I was looking at other ways to get seed-soil contact, and I have a core aerator at my disposal.


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## Wolverine (Jan 17, 2018)

Use a slit seeder then roll in.


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

About as close to final death as I can get it:


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

mooch91 said:


> About as close to final death as I can get it:


Still debating running the aerator over it, can't get it mowed any closer with my 21" push.


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## fusebox7 (Jul 27, 2017)

I know I'm late to this but have you considered watering/feeding for a couple more months and getting into the late summer seeding window? Since you have such a significant portion that's been frustrating you, I'd hate for the triv to come right back next spring. If you fallow for a couple months you may be able to get more to come up, kill it and have better long term success. Just curious because I'm in a similar situation but I have way less property than you so will be digging mine out as much as possible. If I could, I'd kill multiple times.


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