# LED bulbs to retro fit security/motion fixtures(outside)



## Alan (Apr 23, 2017)

Any suggestions on the cheap or reasonable? I found these:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart-90-Watt-Equivalent-PAR38-Dimmable-LED-Flood-Light-Bulb-Daylight-2-Pack-5bHPR1000SW1D20/206668069?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal1_rr-_-301560599-_-206668069-_-N

But there are conflicting reviews, some people say they don't work with their security fixtures some say they do. Not sure why they wouldn't work (or would not work) with ALL since I assume the fixtures work on the same principle, no?

Also, some say it's more of a beam than a flood.

Some people's expectations are too high for everything they buy<shrug>.

Right now I'm running 75w regular plain Jane(old school) incandescent bulbs. Every time I turn around I feel like I'm changing a bulb or two. I have five(5)fixtures with two(2) bulbs each. All are motion sensor types. And a couple are set at the dusk to dawn setting, so it's somewhat dim during that time, then if motion is detected it goes full on bright.


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## Smokindog (Jun 20, 2018)

From what I know of this, it depends on the sensor. Much the same way you have to have a different sensor for many fluorescent than incandescent bulbs many sensor won't work with LEDs. I know I have one of my garage door openers that will not work with LEDs.... 

Some sensors "leak charge" and may cause an LED to flash on/off. Others have a minimum load requirement and the LED lamps don't present enough load. Still other issues can be blamed on the socket itself where the base on the LED bulb isn't able to screw down far enough to make contact (rare but it happens and can sometimes be corrected by bending the tab on the inside bottom of the socket up but BE VERY VERY CAREFUL not to damage the socket or YOURSELF) 

Look at the sensor manufacturer's website for details.


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## Alan (Apr 23, 2017)

I have a hodge podge of different fixtures. So, I guess it's a crap shoot. Buy some lights and give them a go and see if they work.


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## Alan (Apr 23, 2017)

I am reviving this thread based on my observations after purchasing the bulbs listed above. Maybe someone with an electrical background can shed some light(no pun intended) on the situation. Here's the situation. One fixture(let's start simple) with dual bulb sockets(typical). If I put one of the LED's in one socket and leave an incandescent in the other it works as it should, however, if I pull the incandescent out and put an LED in its place the fixture does not work at all(that's with both sockets populated with LED's).

Summary:
2 sockets: LED and incandescent(no problem)
2 sockets: incandescent and incandescent(no problem)
2 sockets: LED and LED(no worky)

I think it's an electrical load issue, as if the fixture doesn't see enough load with the LED's since they draw such little current.

What say you guys?


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## Smokindog (Jun 20, 2018)

Yes, this i a widely reported "work around' for those sensors requiring load as I noted above. Leaving the one incandescent provides sufficient load to satisfy the sensor. Putting in 2 LEDs does not.


Alan said:


> I am reviving this thread based on my observations after purchasing the bulbs listed above. Maybe someone with an electrical background can shed some light(no pun intended) on the situation. Here's the situation. One fixture(let's start simple) with dual bulb sockets(typical). If I put one of the LED's in one socket and leave an incandescent in the other it works as it should, however, if I pull the incandescent out and put an LED in its place the fixture does not work at all(that's with both sockets populated with LED's).
> 
> Summary:
> 2 sockets: LED and incandescent(no problem)
> ...


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## Alan (Apr 23, 2017)

You were absolutely correct. Now the question...Besides using one incandescent bulb and one LED is there some way to make the fixture or sensor think there's enough load so that two LED's will work? It really looks bad with one super bright white LED and a dirty white incandescent.


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## TravisH06 (Jun 17, 2018)

Alan
I'm a master electrician and may have a solution. My only problem is trying to explain. Haha. I think this fixture may be wired in series. The incandescent bulb completes the circuit to power the LED through the filament in the incandescent. I pulled out my meter and omhed an incandescent and led lamp. The incandescent rang out but the led didn't. You can verify this by installing only 1 led lamp in the fixture. I assume that it won't light up. If you can just hook up a neutral to each base and wire nut them to the neutral in the junction box. Take a hot from the switched side of the motion directly to the lamp bases. Also, make sure there are no wires running between the lamp bases. Let me know if this doesn't make sense.


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## Smokindog (Jun 20, 2018)

Why not just buy a new sensor that is made for LED bulbs??? They're not that expensive.


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## Alan (Apr 23, 2017)

TravisH06 said:


> Alan
> I'm a master electrician and may have a solution. My only problem is trying to explain. Haha. I think this fixture may be wired in series. The incandescent bulb completes the circuit to power the LED through the filament in the incandescent. I pulled out my meter and omhed an incandescent and led lamp. The incandescent rang out but the led didn't. You can verify this by installing only 1 led lamp in the fixture. I assume that it won't light up. If you can just hook up a neutral to each base and wire nut them to the neutral in the junction box. Take a hot from the switched side of the motion directly to the lamp bases. Also, make sure there are no wires running between the lamp bases. Let me know if this doesn't make sense.


I think that's a little over my head. I mean I know how to wire a fixture, that's pretty basic, white to white, black to black and the bare ground(if provided). Right now I have an incandescent one side and an LED in the other. It does light up that way. So apparently with one incandescent bulb installed it provides enough of a load to work correctly, but with two LED's it does not.


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## Alan (Apr 23, 2017)

Smokindog said:


> Why not just buy a new sensor that is made for LED bulbs??? They're not that expensive.


Can you provide a link.

I mean I can probably find a fixture that works with LED's for $30+? But I really don't want to replace all five of my fixtures.


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## Alan (Apr 23, 2017)

How about bypassing the sensors completely? Can I do that? I'll just light 'em up all night long via the switch. If the bulbs are meant to last 25 years I'm good with that.


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## TravisH06 (Jun 17, 2018)

Alan
Here is a crappy sketch. I'm pretty sure it'll work if you wire it in parallel and your sensor has a neutral. If you want to bypass the sensor just take the incoming hot and connect it to the switch leg on the sensor.


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## Alan (Apr 23, 2017)

Thank you @TravisH06 I replied to your PM.


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## Smokindog (Jun 20, 2018)

You're going to have to take down the fixture to replace the sensor (more than likely).

Either buy a new fixture with a new sensor to replace or cannibilize or buy just the sensor, whichever makes most sense.


Alan said:


> Smokindog said:
> 
> 
> > Why not just buy a new sensor that is made for LED bulbs??? They're not that expensive.
> ...


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Hillsdale!!


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## Alan (Apr 23, 2017)

I ended up bypassing the sensors in two fixtures, so the light is either on or off via the switch inside the house. The LED's are pretty bright. Here's a view from my neighbors house across the street.


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