# LCN advice on over-seeding... opinions...



## CTLawnNut (May 24, 2020)

Just read LCN's guide on over-seeding and two things that stood out to me that he said not to do is: don't use top soil because it'll introduce undesirable weed seeds. Seems to make sense, but if you're using Tenacity, wouldn't this help here?

And the 2nd thing that he mentioned not to do is aerate, if you can see soil after dethatching / raking e.g. your grass is thin. Mine is. So I'm trying to figure out if I need to aerate. Soil isn't hugely compacted, but not perfect. He says to use liquid aeration here. Also seems like common sense, but I'd be curious what others think.


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

Those are all just his opinions. I like his channel and enjoy his content. I keep in mind he is selling products such as liquid aeration concoctions.

I Somewhat agree with him about topsoil, but used some bagged soil in my recent overseed because I am willing to accept the risk. I used tenacity.

I mechanically aerated the bad spots of my yard to relieve compaction. I was willing to do that because I weighed the risks against the perceived benefits.

I listen to others, apply reason, and then choose my own adventure.


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## MarshalOfFire (Apr 22, 2020)

I believe in his older videos, before he started selling heavily, he advocated for mechanical aeration (his justification was it added more surface area for seed).

I like his older content better than his newer stuff...


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

Bringing in soil will usually bring along weeds. It's only bad really if it brings in undesirable grasses which can be a pain. I fallowed my topsoil and it indeed had probably a thousand weeds in 8 yards. I was doing a renovation so I just killed them all prior to putting down my seed.
After seeding I used Tenacity like you mentioned and have literally 2 weeds in my whole renovation.


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## Babaganoosh (Apr 21, 2019)

If he was selling mechanical aerators to the DIY guys he would be pushing mechanical aeration.

I do agree that unless your soil is actually compacted that you risk bringing up weed seeds. It's happened to me. I think some tenacity or the fert with tenacity in it will probably mitigate that.


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## AndyS (Jun 13, 2020)

I get the point of avoiding topsoil personally to avoid other grasses. Why pay extortionate rates for the purest grass seed to avoid other crops and then throw on a random bag of top soil?

I tried liquid aeration and mechanical aeration last year. If I'm brutally honest neither turned junk soil into gold, nor did they significantly Improve my rooting.

This year - if I have a lawn - I'll try to focus mostly on proper mowing and proper watering... the basic stuff.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Personally, I think most of LCN's earlier recommendations were basically "conventional wisdom" and included such practices as new topsoil at seeding and aeration which are "good" practices. I think that since then, LCN has taken his game to the next level and has moved up the "good, better, best" scale a little further with his cautions against new topsoil and aeration. I think that avoiding new topsoil and avoiding aeration are "better" practices. (I don't claim to know enough to champion any lawn care practices as "best.")

I think that if one's soil is already in reasonably good shape that new topsoil can cause more harm than good, due to bringing in weed seeds. Similarly, aeration can cause trouble with new weed seeds, too.

My personal preference at seed-down is to avoid new topsoil and to avoid aeration. New soil should be used only if adding soil for the purpose of leveling. If new soil is used, fallowing for about a month is helpful at reducing weeds that germinate with the new grass. Aeration should only be needed in decent existing soil if there is significant mechanical compaction present (such as from vehicles or trampling), in which case the aeration only needs to be done in the places that have the mechanical compaction.

I've followed this approach (new soil only for leveling and no aeration) on multiple previous renovations, including one ongoing currently, with "better" results. In this year's renovation area, germination looks equally good in "new soil" and "undisturbed soil" areas. I used new topsoil for the purpose of leveling. Due to time constraints, I did not "fallow" the new topsoil. I think it would have been preferred if I could have done so.

I also think that the long-term best approach is to build organic material in the soil and increase the earthworm population in one's soil. Earthworms are great natural aerators.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

If you are just overseeding why are you bringing in top soil anyways? Leveling a couple spots? If not leveling then yeah no reason to add top soil in my opinion.

Aeration is a personal preference thing. Yes it can kick up some weed seeds in your soil, but it can also help with compaction and seed to soil contact. I think you can have success without it though.


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## Lust4Lawn (Aug 4, 2020)

I recently posed the same question on the forum. My soil was not particularly compacted and was debating on renting an aerator vs slit seeder. I ended up renting the slit seeder as the seed to soil contact seems far more certain and less need to roll afterward.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

I am not a fan of aeration unless it is necessary. I think a lot of soils get compacted because most people don't understand best practices with regards to irrigation - especially with clay soil. The more you let it dry out, the harder it is going to become.

I definitely don't believe it is necessary when over seeding. I believe power raking and scalping your lawn - taking the mower deck as low as it will go - will yield the best results.

Keep in mind that liquid aeration isn't going to give you over night results. It is something that needs to be done consistently.

I got started in lawn care because of LCN. Bought his Cool Season Guide and read it cover to cover several times. That led me down the path of finding guys like Conner and Ryan (among other) and ultimately TLF. I soon realized that not all information out there is the "best" info. Sometimes it takes you own trial and error to figure what works best for you. The good thing about lawn care is it's very difficult to kill your grass. If something doesn't work in 2020, there's always 2021.


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## CTLawnNut (May 24, 2020)

Thanks guys for the thoughts.

I bought top soil to flatten out the front yard, which is pretty rough because of large moss patches. The backyard has some spots that could use leveling as well. My mistake is I bought way too much top soil. 10 cu. yards - when I only needed maybe 5-7 yards at best. I also ended up buying a hitch - haven't installed it yet - so I'll feel guilty not renting a small trailer / aerator. I guess I could forgo the rentals and the hitch will be useful for something else at some point.

I too ended up here after looking at all the DIY lawncare youtubers and like it for a wider variety of opinions. Like anything, there are many ways to skin a cat. So I'm going to stick with some of LCN's advice - no mechanical aeration. I have been on a program of applying Aerify Plus from Nature's Lawn - contains both the humic acid, root growth stuff, and the liquid aeration via ALS I believe. I'll probably just stick to that plan for now.


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## whitetrash paradise (Mar 25, 2020)

Remember LCN is teaching HIS methods for lawn care, not the ONLY methods. 
He is very good at teaching the basics to beginners and novices 
You know your yard. You know the risks. Make the choice for yourself.

Edit: LCN also seems a little bit risk adverse.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Just be prepared for that new soil to settle after this coming Winter. It will feel much flatter and more level now, but will likely settle when the ground thaws. I would switch to sand in subsequent years and bring it to true level over time.


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## mobiledynamics (Aug 9, 2020)

Just started a more serious approach to the turf over the last couple of years......

Riddle me this. I'm not following this basic principal recommendation when overseeing to aerate

..Seeds may drop 3-4" below grade ? Isn't that too -deep- for new seed anyhow. Sure opening up the turf also allows air/water. Doesn't that also when -overseeding - to allow the turn to dry out faster since there is more soil surface exposed.


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## CTLawnNut (May 24, 2020)

I think the reasoning is that it just gives more room for water to penetrate and roots to grow. However, with these liquid solutions for aeration, water penetration should be good enough. As far as the depth that a seed will grow at, I'm not clear about that yet.

I think I'll move to sand next year if the soil settles too much.


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

I've seen overseedS where the aeration holes are about the only thing with grass growing out of them. It almost looks like someone planted fescue plugs. Based on that, I am forced to conclude that falling into an aeration hole can help seed grow in spite of the depth.


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## Pezking7p (May 23, 2020)

mobiledynamics said:


> Just started a more serious approach to the turf over the last couple of years......
> 
> Riddle me this. I'm not following this basic principal recommendation when overseeing to aerate
> 
> ..Seeds may drop 3-4" below grade ? Isn't that too -deep- for new seed anyhow. Sure opening up the turf also allows air/water. Doesn't that also when -overseeding - to allow the turn to dry out faster since there is more soil surface exposed.


I have just aerated and overseeded. I do not have the ability for perfect irrigation, and some areas are just not irrigated at all.

Nearly every aeration hole in the yard, even in non-irrigated areas, has at least 1 seedling growing in it. It's pretty crazy. My aeration holes are not 3-4 inches deep, but they are easily 1-2" deep, so that is partly different. The holes are nice and moist, and hold seed in really good seed/soil contact when other factors are not perfect.

I suspect the "aerate and overseed" recommendation as a general good practice started because of this ability to improve germination in poor conditions - and most people are NOT setting up elaborate irrigation systems when overseeding, and need all the help they can get to improve germination.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Pezking7p Do you think the grass growing inside a 2in deep hole will survive? What happens when the hole collapses?


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

mobiledynamics said:


> Just started a more serious approach to the turf over the last couple of years......
> 
> Riddle me this. I'm not following this basic principal recommendation when overseeing to aerate
> 
> ..Seeds may drop 3-4" below grade ? Isn't that too -deep- for new seed anyhow. Sure opening up the turf also allows air/water. Doesn't that also when -overseeding - to allow the turn to dry out faster since there is more soil surface exposed.


I would argue that most residential aerators don't go down 3-4" consistently. You might get the odd hole that deep, but not consistently across your lawn. 2" is more common. Most people don't know to water the grass before to help soften the soil.

I'm on the side that says aerating isn't needed as much as people are told. Golf courses aerate their greens to relieve compaction,improve the surface for putting and to improve drainage. Golf courses also have hundreds of people 7 days a week walk on their greens. It is more common for compaction to occur. They also can't afford to have their greens puddle up after a heavy rainfall. That would be lost revenue for them.

Home lawns don't get a fraction of the traffic. But this is getting slightly off topic.


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## Pezking7p (May 23, 2020)

g-man said:


> @Pezking7p Do you think the grass growing inside a 2in deep hole will survive? What happens when the hole collapses?


I can't say that I know for sure what will happen, but I suspect that the grass will adjust the root level and keep on growing, just based on my past experience with throwing dirt over existing grass. This is assuming the grass is well above the soil line when the hole is filled in, though I'm not sure if you mean the hole collapses prior to the grass reaching the top of the hole. Again, I'm just answering the question of WHY I think this aerate/overseed combo is so widely recommended, even by well-known lawn care experts and professionals.

I'm not trying to be smart, I respect your knowledge as much as anyone's and I have very little experience, but I could actually mark and track a few seedlings that are in holes. For science.


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## mobiledynamics (Aug 9, 2020)

For established grass, I can see crowns adjusting up....due to soil/matter being added ontop. Or remotely even possible roots -pulling/adjusting- to pull it down. But in the sense of a young seeded plant being seeded 2-3" below grade, and then adjusting (hence, I don't get the whole the aerate/overseed) that is commonly preached. Harts might have nailed the answer though. While it may be required on high compacted turf - that same ideology has been preached/carried over to the residential blogging of things...


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## Dieseldan9 (Aug 18, 2020)

MarshalOfFire said:


> I believe in his older videos, before he started selling heavily, he advocated for mechanical aeration (his justification was it added more surface area for seed).
> 
> I like his older content better than his newer stuff...


100% agree, he is always pushing something now a days


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Pezking7p for science I think you could do 3 things: Aerate + seeds, aerate + remove the plugs + seeds, and just seeds.

My hypothesis is that the cores is what really helps. The cores land on top of the grass and with rain they breakdown a bit. They cover some grass, so that adds OM to the soil. But more importantly the plug soil provides a place for the seeds to land and grow from.

I've seen grass growing in the holes after aeration in the neighbors yard. It looks cool, but I think it always dies. Rains fill the holes and the grass roots, or the hole closes with the grass inside.

I don't overseed, so I don't have experience with these techniques. But someone should do a science experiment.


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## mobiledynamics (Aug 9, 2020)

Starting another thread in the sub forum re: the comments on the y-tubers.
Just gotta see if the TLF has a OT subform...


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## sam (Mar 10, 2018)

g-man said:


> My hypothesis is that the cores is what really helps. The cores land on top of the grass and with rain they breakdown a bit. They cover some grass, so that adds OM to the soil. But more importantly the plug soil provides a place for the seeds to land and grow from.
> 
> I've seen grass growing in the holes after aeration in the neighbors yard. It looks cool, but I think it always dies. Rains fill the holes and the grass roots, or the hole closes with the grass inside.


This is my theory as well 
I.e. The germination in holes is a red herring - just a temporary feel good thing that dies later. Which is not to say aeration doesn't help seeding, I just think it has nothing to do with a bunch of overcrowded seedlings deep in holes. Instead I think the help is the crumbling cores. They gave a good seed bed of lose dirt for other seeds to germinate and those are the seedlings that actually persist


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