# Any Honda mower gurus out there?



## mytmouse (Jan 28, 2019)

Hey guys,

I have my HRR216 that I got for 25 bucks and fixed up over the Winter and it's starting to give me some issues. The last few mows, I've noticed it kind of surging or even bogging down. I initially thought this was to my grass being a little taller due to all the rain we've been having, but now I'm even noticing that the self propel is woefully underpowered unless I'm on concrete. And when it's idling it makes this God awful rattle and a hiss like an air hose is unhooked, I can't quite tell where it's coming from. I thought I'd check to see what you guys thought. I want to say it's the carb, but I replaced that before I started using it and it was working great. So I'm at a loss.

I'll admit the mower was in rough shape when I got it, but I figured I could bring it back to life. Everyone always talks about how bullet proof the Honda engines are so I gave it a go. This is what I did before I started using it.

- new carb w/ all new gaskets
- new air filter
- changed the oil
- new spark plug
- new rod governor and throttle return spring
- new governor spring
- new thermowax
- new drive belt
- cleaned out the fuel tank
- new fuel filter

I think that's all I did to it that would affect the engine. And it sounds like this now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx329Jr-9H8&list=UUS6t8cvQZvWng0podv6tsvg&index=1

I'm going to throw some seafoam in there to see if that helps at all. If so, I guess it is the carb? I really don't want to take it to the shop. I can only imagine what a diag would cost and I'm already wayyyyy deeper in this mower than I thought I would be. Probably still sub $100, but I was hoping it would be a $50 gem! LOL Any ideas you guys have would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

Engine surging is typically a sign of the fuel mixture being lean. Plus a lean engine would definitely give the feel of being under powered. If you are running standard pump fuel with ethanol my guess is your carb is gummed up. Ethanol draws moisture and with our hot, humid weather it can happen really quickly which will cause carb issues.

For the rattle, I would check the valve clearance. In the video it almost sounds as if the valves have too much clearance.


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## Buffalolawny (Nov 24, 2018)

Test compression.

While testing look to see if the gauge fluctuates. Could be leaking air through the valves.

50w or 60w oil. Raises compression n its the rings


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## mytmouse (Jan 28, 2019)

Thank you both! I should have added that I run ethanol free only. That's why the surging threw me for a loop. It hasn't been half a season yet and it seems like the carb was causing issue.

I'll do some Googling on how to check valve clearance and compression. I'm a noob when it comes to small engine repair. I've been just learning from YouTube and Reddit! LOL


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

Does the carb have a high speed mixture screw? If so you could try backing that out a little and see if that cures it. The way I set them is run the engine wide open, slowly turn the mixture screw out until the engine just begins to run a little rough (as if the choke is slightly on) noting the position of the screw. Then turn it in slowly until the engine begins to surge slightly and note it's position. From there, adjust the screw to the middle of these 2 points and it should be pretty good.

I would still take a look at the valve clearance and make sure it is correct.


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## mytmouse (Jan 28, 2019)

@ForsheeMS I'm not sure. This is the one I put on: https://www.boats.net/catalog/honda/lawn-mower/hrr216k9-vyaa-vin-mzcg-8670001/carburetor I'll definitely check the clearance, I found a good video on YT for it as well as the compression too. I just gotta order the parts. I am assuming that I should change the oil before I take off the cover to the valves right?


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

Looking at the parts breakdown reference #4 is your adjustment screw but I don't think it's really a high speed or low speed mixture screw. Might have to play with it a little to see if it makes any changes. That carb shows a fixed main jet so a small piece of dirt or debris making it's way into the bowl could cause a lean condition. Removing the bowl and cleaning the main jet (reference# 18) will eliminate that as a possible issue. Just be sure to shut the fuel off before removing it.

When you remove the valve cover you will get a little oil to dribble out. Just put a shop rag under it before you take it off. You can change the oil before or after, doesn't really matter there. Just be sure the engine is cold when checking valve clearance since the specs are for a cold engine. Valve clearance changes as the engine warms up.


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

put some seafoam in the fuel and it will clean itself out.

It might be annoying, but I would put a full tank of fuel in there with seafoam and let it run through the tank if you don't have enough power to mow right now.


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## mytmouse (Jan 28, 2019)

Thanks @ForsheeMS I'll take a look at that jet and see if I see anything. I've pulled the carb off more times than I'd like to admit when I was trying to get the original one back to spec, so I'm cool with that. I'll order the parts I need for the valve clearance and the compression test this week.

@MMoore I'm going to do that probably right after I check the carb's jet to see if any dirt got in there. My wife grabbed me a fresh can last night! I can mow, it just doesn't sound pretty. I got through my mow yesterday but I was helping it a lot more than I used to.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

You may have some varnish, gum, and/or debris in your fuel system itself, and now it has been dissolved and vibrated some, and worked its way into your carb jet. I would flush the entire fuel system out, put on a fuel filter, flush the carb and blow the jet out, add fresh fuel, and start with a clean fuel system from cap to bowl. Anything sitting up long may have bad gas in it.

I would also put on fresh air filters (paper element and foam pre-filter), and replace the spark plug with a new properly gapped spark plug. Then fire it up and see if you have eliminated the problem. While you're at it, change the oil and blade.

That will eliminate all the usual sources of surging like you are seeing - it comes and goes, so I suspect it is fuel, not ignition.

And even if it does not, you still have just purchased things you need to do for routine maintenance anyway.... Good luck!


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## mytmouse (Jan 28, 2019)

@FlowRider I'll take a look at the fuel system too. I never did replace the fuel lines which I probably should've but I was being cheap. LOL So it's possible there was something stuck in there that I didn't clear out when I flushed the lines with fresh fuel. I haven't let the mower sit with any old gas, I know the previous owner did though. So there definitely could be some unseed buildup. What is the paper element you mention for the air filter?

I should have mentioned in my initial post. It's not that the symptoms come and go. Initially when I first got it, it surged really bad. That's why I replaced all the parts. After that, it was good to go! Ran smooth with no issues, until now.

I was hoping I'd get to troubleshooting yesterday, but Daddy duty had me busy and I'm going camping this weekend and then vacation this weekend. So I hope the Seafoam will get me through my weekend mow and then when I get back I can get in the carb and dive deeper into what's going on. Hopefully I'll return with an update of success! LOL


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

the seafoam should get you going... but it does take a bit to work.
seafoam basically blows through your carb anyways... so I would try that before pulling it apart.

I haven't gotten into the mechanicals of these engine, but its possible with the overhead cam that you need to check the valve gap.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

mytmouse said:


> @FlowRider I'll take a look at the fuel system too.
> 
> What is the paper element you mention for the air filter?


The "paper element" is the air filter itself - it is actually made from pleated paper, that is then thermo-molded into plastic to seal against the edges of the air filter box.

I would recommend Berryman's Carb and Choke Cleaner if you can find it, but Seafoam works well too. Best of luck on it!


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## mytmouse (Jan 28, 2019)

@FlowRider Ohhh gotcha! Does the Honda have the foam pre-filter? I put a new paper filter on at the beginning of the season. Thing is spotless.

Well an update. On Friday morning I went outside and cranked it up again to burn some fuel down so I could put Seafoam in. Got the seafoam in and the thing WOULD NOT start. I kept cranking and fired got it fired up, but it sounded funny. I engaged the blades just to see what would happen and it cut off. In frustration, I just took it to my local repair shop. They charge a $25 diagnosis to tell me what's going on. I also mentioned the valve clearance and the noise it makes. With me going on vacation this week that will help take some of the guess work out of things if they can just tell me what it is. Depending on the cost, I might just do it myself.

I had to mow the lawn with my push Crafstman (Don't judge me) and I need my self-propel back ASAP! LOL Thank you all that provided me input. I think it is definitely a carb issue, but I'm also intrigued about the valves too to see if it helps with power. I'll let you guys know what the say and what I end up doing. I'm just hoping it's not something serious that will make me have to junk it.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

@mytmouse

My Honda engines all have had foam pre-filters on them. It is designed to catch the large particles (clippings, etc.) from getting into the pleats on the paper element. It traps a lot of the dust and dirt as well.

Since you took the mower to the shop anyway, ask them when you go back if your unit uses a (green) foam pre-filter.

It is definitely worth a $25 fee to get the problem diagnosed. Then you can determine whether you have the skills to fix the problem, or if it would be better to have a pro wrench spinner fix it up for you. I think it was a good idea to do this diagnosis.

And no worries about the Craftsman push mower - I started out mowing with one, then finishing with a Jacobsen two-stroke reel mower. That old Craftsman and Jacobsen both ran for years, but for the life of me I do not know how they ended up....


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## mytmouse (Jan 28, 2019)

Well I got a call yesterday from the shop. All the carb guesses were correct. Sorta. Come to find out the bolts that hold the carb on backed out so there was air leaking. So the guy said he fixed it. I'm pissed because if I wouldn't have been so fast I would've saved the coin. To make matters worst they're charging me $32 for the "fix". I'm hopeful that this is because the guy didn't include the $25 diagnosis fee already. Uggghhhh. I didn't even ask him to check the valve clearance because of it is $32 to tighten 2 bolts I'd hate to see the cost to check/correct the valve clearance. I'm going to just buy the gauges off of Amazon and do it myself.

@FlowRider I did ask about the filter. This one doesn't have the foam prefilter, just the paper element. The reason I was down on my Craftsman is it's not self propelled and only cuts at a Max of 3.5". I cut at 4" with my Honda so I was afraid I'd be hacking off too much. But it actually looked good! I made sure to sharpen my blade beforehand. I just hope this heatwave won't best it up too bad! LOL

Thank you all for your help. I wish I would've just pumped my brakes and checked it out myself. I probably would've felt those bolts were loose as soon as I tried to remove them. But you live and learn I guess. It just costs! Ahahahahaha


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

if its running fine, don't worry about the valve clearance.


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## mytmouse (Jan 28, 2019)

Alright @MMoore He did say it's running fine and he didn't hear that pinging sound. So I'll take him at his word. Even with it being so old, there's no need? They don't get out of whack over time?


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

it says every 150hours in the Honda manual.


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## mytmouse (Jan 28, 2019)

I'm sure this thing has at least that! It can't hurt. It'll at least make me feel a little better ahahahahaha.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Yeah, when I mentioned something may have vibrated loose in your fuel system, I never thought it would be your carb...! :lol:

Your small engine mechanic man card...hand it over. I need to stamp it with "Loose screws and nuts are due to owner error!"

 :lol:

Well, at least now you know what was wrong. And you were man enough to tell us...all. Here's your man card back...! :thumbup:


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## mytmouse (Jan 28, 2019)

LOL I don't deny it's on me. I swore I tightened them properly when I put it back together and it ran fine for 2.5 months since my rehab. But I guess I didn't. LOL I'll take the slight on my man card... You gotta pull the carb bolts before you can install them too loose. LOL!


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## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

mytmouse said:


> LOL I don't deny it's on me. I swore I tightened them properly when I put it back together and it ran fine for 2.5 months since my rehab. But I guess I didn't. LOL I'll take the slight on my man card... You gotta pull the carb bolts before you can install them too loose. LOL!


You aren't the only one to make that mistake. I tore down a 25 year old rider I use to own to replace a bunch of stuff as it was getting really hard to get it to start and run. Replaced the spark plug, wire, ignition coil, filter, etc. Got it all back together and it still ran like crap. Took a second look at it after getting frustrated with the hard starting/idle and one of the carb bolts had almost backed out completely so the carb was just sort of hanging there with a massive air gap between it and the manifold. I tightened it back down and it ran better than ever.


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