# Spraying for Goosegrass in Bermuda



## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I have quite an outbreak of Goosegrass in my common Bermuda from some dirt I excavated in the back yard and used for leveling. Oops!

I've looked for a chemical I can spray, but it appears that something that will kill the Goose but not harm the Bermuda is hard to find. Any suggestions?

A side note, I have a lot of seedlings from seed I sowed a few weeks ago, as well as existing mature Bermuda. I'm encouraging the existing to spread as much as I can and also moving some plugs from the densest areas. Given the young seedlings I don't reckon I can spray anything, but if the mature Bermuda spreads quickly enough and does well filling in, I don't care much if the seedlings make it or not. So I'll have to wait it out a bit and see how that goes, but I still need to know what I can spray for this Goosegrass.


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

Sulfentrazone + Revolver


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

Thank you!


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

Msma


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

It appears that MSMA is not labeled for residential use. Is that something that I should just ignore? I would very much so like to be able to just spray one chemical if possible.

As a side note, there is a good bit of crabgrass coming up too. It's nowhere near as ugly as a full grown clump of Goosegrass though, but I might as well try to get that while I'm at it.

I have a lot of Bermuda seedlings coming up at maybe 1/4-1/2" tall right now, so I won't be spraying anything very soon. I'm afraid the Goosegrass may be too mature by the time I can spray it.


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## tincan (Sep 4, 2020)

Quinclorac is supposedly safe on young Bermuda grass. It controls crabgrass but I'm not sure if it also controls goosegrass.


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## blsherrill1 (May 11, 2021)

Last year I spot sprayed goosegrass with dismiss nxt. It also yellowed the bermuda in those spots but it did knock out the goosegrass. I had it bad in heavily compacted areas behind my house. When I aerate soon I will be sure to reapply preemergent afterwards in those areas.


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## Jagermeister (May 18, 2021)

mwemaxxowner said:


> It appears that MSMA is not labeled for residential use. Is that something that I should just ignore? I would very much so like to be able to just spray one chemical if possible.
> 
> As a side note, there is a good bit of crabgrass coming up too. It's nowhere near as ugly as a full grown clump of Goosegrass though, but I might as well try to get that while I'm at it.
> 
> I have a lot of Bermuda seedlings coming up at maybe 1/4-1/2" tall right now, so I won't be spraying anything very soon. I'm afraid the Goosegrass may be too mature by the time I can spray it.


I had a big outbreak of Goose last year and I call it the devil grass because not much can kill it. I spent countless hours pulling the grass as I attempted to avoid it dropping seed as much as possible. It requires an aggressive pre-m regiment and then if it does come up, you have to kill it when it is young. I have done split apps of prodiamine, an app of pennant magnum, and then an app of sulfentrazone and quinclorac (for crabgrass, doesn't kill goose) once soil temps got above 65 degress for a week straight. It is too early to tell but so far, I don't have any popping up. I will do one more app of pennant and one more of sulfentrazone in early June.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I have prodiamine and was spraying it until I decided to seed Bermuda. I wanted to hold off a year or so until this really filled in, but maybe it's the lesser of two evils. What I read goes back and forth as to whether Prodiamine hinders Bermuda from spreading and putting down new roots. I don't reckon it'll spread too well if Goosegrass takes over either.


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## southernguy311 (Mar 17, 2017)

tincan said:


> Quinclorac is supposedly safe on young Bermuda grass. It controls crabgrass but I'm not sure if it also controls goosegrass.


It definitely doesn't


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

mwemaxxowner said:


> I have prodiamine and was spraying it until I decided to seed Bermuda. I wanted to hold off a year or so until this really filled in, but maybe it's the lesser of two evils. What I read goes back and forth as to whether Prodiamine hinders Bermuda from spreading and putting down new roots. I don't reckon it'll spread too well if Goosegrass takes over either.


https://horticulture.uark.edu/_resources/pdf/turf/extension-pubs/establishing-seeded-bermudagrass-on-lawns-golf-courses-or-athletic-fields-mp477.pdf

Check this information out for how soon you can apply pre or post emergent herbicides to a newly planted bermuda lawn


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

According to that, MSMA it is! Woo!


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## Jeremy3292 (Apr 30, 2020)

Sulfentrazone is what you need. Image Weed Killer at the big box stores will do the trick.


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

@mwemaxxowner About 2 Tablespoons of MSMA per gallon of water. Apply above 80F.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

cldrunner said:


> @mwemaxxowner About 2 Tablespoons of MSMA per gallon of water. Apply above 80F.


That is for spot spraying? I have a battery powered sprayer planned to calibrate it for a broadcast spray and mix per the charts in the instructions. I sprayed prodiamine in that fashion but I don't remember how many gallons I was spraying per 1000 square feet, so I'll have to calibrate again. I have a few teejet nozzles. I probably need to know a good mix for some spot spraying too though.

Based on these posts, and what I've seen googling for information related to these, I think I may do MSMA first (it's labeled safe at 1WAE, and then Dismiss (it's labeled for 3 WAE). I'll pick back up with my split prodiamine apps later this year. I would guess getting back on a steady prodiamine regimen, and continuing with post emergent apps as needed will start to get this under control.

I want to get a boom sprayer for my tractor, but it just hasn't been in the cards financially yet so far.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I've ordered MSMA from DoMyOwn, and I got some Image off the shelf at my local TSC. I like being able to grab it off the shelf any time, and I like only having to buy $20 worth at a time. I really think it has been 3 WAE and I would be safe to spray the Image now, but I'm going to just spray the MSMA now, and the Image in a few weeks.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I'm looking for some advice again. I'm getting antsy, and I have the Image in my hands (quinclorac and sulfentrazone) but I'm waiting on the MSMA to arrive. I'd like to go ahead and spray Image.

When I look up the charts on the publication listed above for Bermuda, it lists Sulfentrazone as being safe 3 weeks after emergence, and quinclorac as being safe one week after emergence. However, the label on the Image bottle itself and the PDF labeling for it says "not safe for newly established lawns" or something to that effect.

So, so I trust the data that says those two chemicals are each safe on my new seedlings, or err on the side of caution and use the data on the Image bottle and not spray Image on my areas that are primarily new Bermuda plants? (I'll still spray it on other areas).

I also really desire to spot spray it, but I don't feel like I really have any control over how much I apply PSF with spot spraying. If I broadcast spray I can dial things in so I know how much product I'm applying PSF with reasonable accuracy. Am I just worrying about that too much?


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## marshtj (Apr 9, 2018)

Does Image have both of those active ingredients? I see the label only Lists Quinclorac of the two. Now Q4 and solitaire list both.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

Yes, it has Quinclorac and Sulfentrazone listed as active ingredients on the bottle.


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

mwemaxxowner said:


> I'm looking for some advice again. I'm getting antsy, and I have the Image in my hands (quinclorac and sulfentrazone) but I'm waiting on the MSMA to arrive. I'd like to go ahead and spray Image.
> 
> When I look up the charts on the publication listed above for Bermuda, it lists Sulfentrazone as being safe 3 weeks after emergence, and quinclorac as being safe one week after emergence. However, the label on the Image bottle itself and the PDF labeling for it says "not safe for newly established lawns" or something to that effect.
> 
> ...


I run .75oz / gallon with non ionic surfactant


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

Batsonbe said:


> mwemaxxowner said:
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> 
> > I'm looking for some advice again. I'm getting antsy, and I have the Image in my hands (quinclorac and sulfentrazone) but I'm waiting on the MSMA to arrive. I'd like to go ahead and spray Image.
> ...


Thank you, as a broadcast spray or spot spray?


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

mwemaxxowner said:


> Batsonbe said:
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I do that as a spot spray. I wouldn't spray it when temps are over 85 degrees. Also I run 1/2oz surfactant / gallon.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

marshtj said:


> Does Image have both of those active ingredients? I see the label only Lists Quinclorac of the two. Now Q4 and solitaire list both.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

Batsonbe said:


> mwemaxxowner said:
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If you've had success with that and it's safe on your Bermuda I may just follow your lead then. Just a quick spritz to wet the plants? (I've done more broadcast spraying than spot)

I did plan to spray below 85. I'm assuming that means while the temperature at the time of spraying is less than 85, as in spray later one afternoon when temps have dropped below 85, but will surely be back over the next day.


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

mwemaxxowner said:


> Batsonbe said:
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You will see some yellowing of the bermuda, like with most herbicides but it won't kill it. I just hold the nozzle over the weed spray the weed for what feels like half a second and move on to the next one. If you can avoid blanket apps that's the way to go.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

Have you also spent any time spraying MSMA?


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Once you get it under control, you'll likely want to adjust your preemergent process going forward for atleast a season. Oxadiazon would be a massive help, but again, it's pretty yucky stuff, and off label, etc.

Goosegrass also kicks up a touch later so it's more important for timing.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I was doing split apps of prodiamine, but have let it all expire and put that on hold because I knew I'd be sowing some seed, as well as encouraging the existing Bermuda to spread this year.

My hope is to start back with split apps either this winter or next spring.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

This is the result of an excavation project to remove a hump in the front that was bugging the heck out of me.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I went ahead and bit the bullet and sprayed a blanket spray of my MSMA Sunday afternoon. Upon examination I decided that there is too much weed coverage to just spot spray.

I calibrated my Ryobi 4 gal 18v backpack sprayer, and sprayed at the 1 oz/1000 square feet rate. Everything has been well watered up to this point, and was as healthy as it could be right now, so I hope the Bermuda will be okay.

I notice a little bit of yellowing in a few spots (as of yesterday afternoon) but not much.

I calibrated my sprayer to about .63 gal/1000. The MSMA instructions seem adamant I should make it work out to 1 gal/1000 of carrier, but I didn't have any larger nozzles and if I try to slow down my natural pace I'll be inconsistent. Thoughts on how important that may be? I'm wondering if the idea is coverage will be less per plant with too little carrier, even though I got enough active ingredient down.

I used a red turbo teejet nozzle. I also have a red turbo twinjet nozzle and a red AIXR nozzle, and a few regular xr nozzles. I have to spray next to some shrub beds so I was trying to minimize drift. I covered the ornamentals closest to where I was spraying with tarps.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I do have some yellowing of a lot of the weeds (not all), but NONE of the Bermuda looks the least bit stressed so far. I'll call that a win for now! I put down 1 lb/1000 of 17/17/17 and have begun to water again.

I'm sure I need to re apply in 7-10 days.

I need to decide whether the next app be just MSMA, just the Image all in one (Sulfentrazone/quinclorac), or a tank mix of MSMA and Image. Would MSMA/Sulf/Quin be too much for the grass at the same time?


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I sprayed the second app today. MSMA and Image together in the same tank. It's amazing to look out and see large, coarse leaves everywhere that are yellowed, but see fine dark green blades spread throughout too (the Bermuda). So far everything seems to be going as planned. I have Centipede too that I'm hoping to give the boot and it seems to be dying also. I hope if I can continue this course and a good prodiamine schedule I'll have a nice stand of common Bermuda and only common Bermuda.


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## marshtj (Apr 9, 2018)

So, I've hit my goose grass twice with MSMA at 2 oz per 1000 and three weeks apart, I've had some yellowing but no control.


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## crazysports457 (Jul 26, 2021)

@marshtj I was getting ready to do the exact same thing this weekend. Please let me know how yours progresses.


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## marshtj (Apr 9, 2018)

I'm honestly about ready to bite the bullet and order some Revolver.


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## crazysports457 (Jul 26, 2021)

my backup plan is using the plugger pro and pulling each one out as a plug


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

So far things are looking good. I'm sure the goose will need another application of something in a few weeks but pretty much all of it (as well as all the other non desirable stuff) shows signs of injury.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

crazysports457 said:


> my backup plan is using the plugger pro and pulling each one out as a plug


I did a little of that last year, but there is far too much to really get it that way for me.


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## crazysports457 (Jul 26, 2021)

Based on your pictures, now I'm not 100% sure what I have is goose grass. I have compared my pictures all over the internet and goose seems the closest. What do you think based on these pictures? It has very thick stalks.


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## marshtj (Apr 9, 2018)

I think I'm going to try hitting mine with Speedzone EW and Princep (Simazine) this weekend.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

MSMA or even Sulfentrazone by itself does very little long term to Goosegrass. Needs to be tank mixed with another herbicide. Goosegrass is not susceptible at all to Quinclorac. It is best left out of a mix targeting Goosegrass. When MSMA was labeled for residential and non golf turf, I applied it with Simazine and/or Imazaquin depending on which weeds were targeted. One application and done.


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## marshtj (Apr 9, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> MSMA or even Sulfentrazone by itself does very little long term to Goosegrass. Needs to be tank mixed with another herbicide. Goosegrass is not susceptible at all to Quinclorac. It is best left out of a mix targeting Goosegrass. When MSMA was labeled for residential and non golf turf, I applied it with Simazine and/or Imazaquin depending on which weeds were targeted. One application and done.


Maybe I'll try Simazine and MSMA then.

I'll add that your advice on Simazine and Tenacity cured my nimblewill problem several years back.


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## crazysports457 (Jul 26, 2021)

I will use Simazine 4L and MSMA as well. Are these amounts correct for spot spraying?

Simazine 4L: 1.5 Oz / 1 gallon
MSMA: 2 Oz / 1 gallon


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## p1muserfan (Jul 7, 2019)

crazysports457 said:


> Based on your pictures, now I'm not 100% sure what I have is goose grass. I have compared my pictures all over the internet and goose seems the closest. What do you think based on these pictures? It has very thick stalks.


That looks like dallisgrass, MSMA alone will smoke it


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

crazysports457 said:


> I will use Simazine 4L and MSMA as well. Are these amounts correct for spot spraying?
> 
> Simazine 4L: 1.5 Oz / 1 gallon
> MSMA: 2 Oz / 1 gallon


That is a lot. I would use no more than 0.5 oz MSMA and 0.2 oz Simazine 4L as a spray to wet spot spray. Prefer to see 1.5-2 oz MSMA and 0.75 oz SImazine as a broadcast spray. You are treating a golf course or sod farm with this right?


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## DFW245 (Jul 23, 2021)

crazysports457 said:


> Based on your pictures, now I'm not 100% sure what I have is goose grass. I have compared my pictures all over the internet and goose seems the closest. What do you think based on these pictures? It has very thick stalks.


Hmmm thats looking alot more like Dallisgrass. Ive got a strip full of it. My backyard was full of goosegrass, thats not it. If they ever get to the seedhead stage youll be able to tell 100. They dont look anything alike. Goosegrass resembles a thick crabgrass seedhead, whereas dallisgrass ive heard from some resembles Bahia? a little. But on dallisgrass, the black seedheads are the telltale sign as well as the bunching. Goosegrass normally has like 3-4 arms meeting at a central point at the soil(normally whiteish/silver in color the closer you get to the base) and spread outwards from there


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## DFW245 (Jul 23, 2021)

Greendoc said:


> MSMA or even Sulfentrazone by itself does very little long term to Goosegrass. Needs to be tank mixed with another herbicide. Goosegrass is not susceptible at all to Quinclorac. It is best left out of a mix targeting Goosegrass. When MSMA was labeled for residential and non golf turf, I applied it with Simazine and/or Imazaquin depending on which weeds were targeted. One application and done.


Isnt Celsius labeled for goosegrass? Its what i used for my infestation


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## crazysports457 (Jul 26, 2021)

Treating a cotton field :roll:


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

DFW245 said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> > MSMA or even Sulfentrazone by itself does very little long term to Goosegrass. Needs to be tank mixed with another herbicide. Goosegrass is not susceptible at all to Quinclorac. It is best left out of a mix targeting Goosegrass. When MSMA was labeled for residential and non golf turf, I applied it with Simazine and/or Imazaquin depending on which weeds were targeted. One application and done.
> ...


Celsius is not. Its sister product Tribute Total is. Tribute total is a mash up of Revolver, Celsius and Sedgehammer.


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## DFW245 (Jul 23, 2021)

Greendoc said:


> DFW245 said:
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hm. Thats interesting. Ive killed off all of it in my back yard just by using celsius. Let me recheck the label then, ive read wrong apparently

EDIT: Youre completely right, I used Image Red Label. smh, dont mind me. Its 105 outside


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Sulfentrazone+Quinclorac? Sulfentrazone can kill Goosegrass if it is young and multiple applications.


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## DFW245 (Jul 23, 2021)

Greendoc said:


> Sulfentrazone+Quinclorac? Sulfentrazone can kill Goosegrass if it is young and multiple applications.


I believe so yes. And it definitely took about two apps to kill them off. Maybe they were young? But they were huge I know that


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## crazysports457 (Jul 26, 2021)

Any temperature restrictions with simazine 4L or MSMA?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

crazysports457 said:


> Any temperature restrictions with simazine 4L or MSMA?


Not effective at temperatures under 80.


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## Pannellde (7 mo ago)

Jeremy3292 said:


> Sulfentrazone is what you need. Image Weed Killer at the big box stores will do the trick.


I had huge patches of goosegrass and used two applications of Image with great results. Just helping the Bermuda to take back those bare spots now.


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## marshtj (Apr 9, 2018)

marshtj said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> > MSMA or even Sulfentrazone by itself does very little long term to Goosegrass. Needs to be tank mixed with another herbicide. Goosegrass is not susceptible at all to Quinclorac. It is best left out of a mix targeting Goosegrass. When MSMA was labeled for residential and non golf turf, I applied it with Simazine and/or Imazaquin depending on which weeds were targeted. One application and done.
> ...


Once again GreenDoc you are the man. This combo worked amazingly well. I did mix it a little hotter than your recommendation and got some bermuda discoloring, but I'm sure that will recover shortly.

What is it about Simazine that makes treatments it's mixed with so much more effective?


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## Mewwwda (Jul 15, 2020)

Curious about this as well. Third year in a row being hit with goosegrass. Also have dallisgrass pop up this year. Would Sulfentrazone + Simazine take care of these or is MSMA + Simazine the way to take care of both of these nuisances?


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## Jagermeister (May 18, 2021)

Mewwwda said:


> Curious about this as well. Third year in a row being hit with goosegrass. Also have dallisgrass pop up this year. Would Sulfentrazone + Simazine take care of these or is MSMA + Simazine the way to take care of both of these nuisances?


What did you do for your pre-em program? I had tons of goose grass last year (I have a lot of thin areas) and so far this year, because of a number of split apps and post apps of sulftentrazone, I don't have any.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I did an app of MSMA, then a week later an app of MSMA mixed with Image all in one. I.a.i.o. is Sulfentrazone and quinclorac.

I am amazed at how well this worked. It smoked everything but the Bermuda and the older more mature Goosegrass. The centipede is toast, the Crabgrass toast, etc. I've never blanket sprayed selective post emergent herbicides before so this was sort of amazing to me.

Since spraying the Bermuda has really taken hold and thickened up all over, even though I have not taken any measures yet to dethatch or remove the dead weed areas.

I had goose all around in various states of maturity. The younger stuff seems dead, the older goosegrasses are injured and yellow but not gone. It'll take more to kill that but this is great progress for me. It has really helped the Bermuda get a foot hold.

I'll continue spraying blanket apps but I'm quite satisfied. Pre em applications and continuing these next few years with selective post emergents, I believe I'll be able to have a nice common Bermuda lawn without all the weeds.

It has also turned out incredibly hot here lately. Several days over 100. It seems like the high temps serve as fertilizer to the Bermuda. When the heat really went "next level" it's like the Bermuda grabbed another gear and sped up.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)




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## crazysports457 (Jul 26, 2021)

@Greendoc

I am going to follow your advice today and do : I would use no more than 0.5 oz MSMA and 0.2 oz Simazine 4L as a spray to wet spot spray.

How long before I can water the yard again?


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## crazysports457 (Jul 26, 2021)

For my dallisgrass @Greendoc suggestion of MSMA + Simazine worked like a charm. I have tried many other combos and none worked, but I saw results with this in 48 hours. Thanks @Greendoc


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## Brian_1530 (8 mo ago)

I've used Quinclorac + Sulfentrazone with good results on goosegrass and crabgrass just watch temperatures when spraying.


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## Pannellde (7 mo ago)

crazysports457 said:


> For my dallisgrass @Greendoc suggestion of MSMA + Simazine worked like a charm. I have tried many other combos and none worked, but I saw results with this in 48 hours. Thanks @Greendoc


Will MSMA not kill it on its own?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

MSMA is not particularly effective on it own. A one time kill with a combination or many applications of MSMA by itself.


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