# New TIFTUF sod with Army Worms



## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

The process the company used to sod my yard: Killed off all existing old grass and weeds over 2wk period. Removed all dead grass. Pulverized the soil down to 6 inches. Added several bales of Peat Moss and mixed that in and graded yard. Installed irrigation system. Sodded my entire yard edge to edge with 22 pallets of TIFTUF rolled on pallets with about 1 1/2 to 2 inches of red clay on bottom of sod pieces. A few days after sod was put down they sprayed a root start, fertilizer and insecticide. Weedman sprayed once in May and in June with fertilizer and insecticide, Then worms showed up after heavy rain and have been here since. I put down 40lbs of Amdro Quick Kill and sprayed Triazicide over the weekend. Yesterday late afternoon I did the soap test and in a 6' x 3' area I came up with 16 worms 1 to 1 1/2 inches long and fat from eating my grass.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Oh wow, I'm terribly sorry to hear about that! BTW, welcome to TLF, sorry this is your introductory post.

Have you contacted the contractor that installed the sod to see if you can get any remedy? 3 months seems like a pretty short window to have your yard infested with a nuisance pest like army worms.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

We have contacted and been in routine communication with the company that installed the sod. Not sure where in GA the TIFTUF came from.


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## Justin (Jun 11, 2018)

Red clay tifftuf is the worst sod I've ever encountered and sold at a premium over regular sod.

Super sod delivered 2 pallets in April for me, all of it was dead within 3 weeks. I wrote a review on their facebook page, and they shipped me 2 more pallets free of charge. I just installed it Saturday. Again what was delivered was half dead and essentially the worst looking sod I'd ever seen. All the while they are asking every day for me to remove my review.

I can ensure you that the worm infestation came from Murphy Ga where the red clay farm is located.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Justin said:


> Red clay tifftuf is the worst sod I've ever encountered and sold at a premium over regular sod.
> 
> Super sod delivered 2 pallets in April for me, all of it was dead within 3 weeks. I wrote a review on their facebook page, and they shipped me 2 more pallets free of charge. I just installed it Saturday. Again what was delivered was half dead and essentially the worst looking sod I'd ever seen. All the while they are asking every day for me to remove my review.
> 
> I can ensure you that the worm infestation came from Murphy Ga where the red clay farm is located.


I really don't understand why it's sold at a premium; licensing arrangement maybe? I'm under the impression it spreads quicker than 419 and needs less water so I would think it would undercut the cost of 419.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

I am not sure which sod farm in GA my TIFTUF came from. My sod came on pallets tightly rolled up and stacked. After a week or so it turned bright green and then the worms came last month. I tried to post a picture of my grass but this website doesn't allow it for some reason. My $11500.00 worth of grass is mostly brown and thinned out and infested with worms.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

Justin said:


> Red clay tifftuf is the worst sod I've ever encountered and sold at a premium over regular sod.
> 
> Super sod delivered 2 pallets in April for me, all of it was dead within 3 weeks. I wrote a review on their facebook page, and they shipped me 2 more pallets free of charge. I just installed it Saturday. Again what was delivered was half dead and essentially the worst looking sod I'd ever seen. All the while they are asking every day for me to remove my review.
> 
> I can ensure you that the worm infestation came from Murphy Ga where the red clay farm is located.


If I find out this is where the sod came from then your review won't be the only one there.


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

testdepth said:


> I am not sure which sod farm in GA my TIFTUF came from because a sod company had it delivered. I am trying to find out though.
> My sod came on pallets tightly rolled up and stacked. After a week or so it turned bright green and then the worms came last month. I tried to post a picture of my grass but this website doesn't allow it for some reason. My $11500.00 worth of grass is mostly brown and thinned out and infested with worms.


If it's just worms, you'll be ok...assuming you can get them under control. I use Sevin SL for breakouts, but I'm not sure it's available to homeowners.

How long after the install did it take for you to notice the worms? It seems like quite a bit of time; too long for the worms to be in the sod.

The old stuff that they took out may have been more insect resistant / or may have bren less than ideal for the worms and that's why you've never encountered this before.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

viva_oldtrafford said:


> testdepth said:
> 
> 
> > I am not sure which sod farm in GA my TIFTUF came from because a sod company had it delivered. I am trying to find out though.
> ...


Sod was on the ground mid April and we noticed the worms mid June after a heavy rain so about 2 months.


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

testdepth said:


> viva_oldtrafford said:
> 
> 
> > testdepth said:
> ...


2 months is well outside of their typical lifecycle. Your old stuff just wasn't ideal for their diet, but now you have something that they like. Sevin SL is a great curative product and Acelepryn ($$$) is a great preventative product - check labels for homeowners.

These worms didn't come in the sod, nor did their eggs.


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## pintail45 (Apr 26, 2018)

Carbaryl or trichlorfon for immediate kill, then Imidacloprid for long-term (rest of season) control.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

Sod installer included spraying fertilizer and insecticide right after it was put down. We then paid Weedman to do monthly maintenance spraying May and June and still have worms. Frustrated and angry to watch $12000 worth of grass being eaten up. Before I agreed to install TIFTUF there was never any mention of nor had I ever heard of an Army Worm.


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

testdepth said:


> Sod installer included spraying fertilizer and insecticide right after it was put down. We then paid Weedman to do monthly maintenance spraying May and June and still have worms. Frustrated and angry to watch $12000 worth of grass being eaten up. Before I agreed to install TIFTUF there was never any mention of nor had I ever heard of an Army Worm.


Don't worry too much. Yes, it sucks, but it's bermuda, and it will recover. I used to fight worms quite frequently, but then Acelepryn hit the market and I haven't had to make a curative application in 3-4 years.


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## Crabbychas (Apr 25, 2018)

testdepth said:


> Sod installer included spraying fertilizer and insecticide right after it was put down. We then paid Weedman to do monthly maintenance spraying May and June and still have worms. Frustrated and angry to watch $12000 worth of grass being eaten up. Before I agreed to install TIFTUF there was never any mention of nor had I ever heard of an Army Worm.


I would ask whoever has sprayed most recently what they used and make sure the guy spraying is putting down insecticide. I had worms eat up my yard and it sprang back fairly quickly once I got rid of the worms, but I keep seeing moths in my yard so I know they are still there. I have put down 2 apps of ortho bug-b-gone, the first app killed the worms that were currently living and the second was to kill any new ones that were still small and had just hatched. I also put down grub-ex which will get in the soil and kill them when they burrow to pupate.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

@viva_oldtrafford 
@Greendoc

You can order sevin sl off of domyown. It is a little pricey though.

Would permethrin offer just as good a nock down of armyworms at a better price?

After I would use Dominion 2l (imidacloprid) as a preventative.


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## Bunnysarefat (May 4, 2017)

I had them hit my TifTuf last year and a stout round of Bifen XTS, a liquid spray mixed with water, killed 99% of the worms overnight. You just have to let the insecticide sit on the grass without rain or irrigation for 24 hours so the worms eat the treated grass. Then water it in, that kills the tiny worms at the base of the grass. Then in 2 weeks do another treatment to hit the next generation of worms and you should be good for some time. That worked for me. You can't delay though, if you see the caterpillars out early in the morning then you're still infested. Every day they are active is big damage as I'm sure you've seen.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

OP, @viva_oldtrafford knows his stuff, and I can really empathize with you that you're absolutely sick to your stomach after forking out that much scratch and you're watching your money literally fly away. His explanation as to why you're having a breakout is very plausible, and I'd trust his knowledge from both an entomological and curative standpoint. Find out what chemicals were applied and at what rates so you're not overapplying one control to your turf if you do take this on yourself.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I do not count on pests being that susceptible to pyrethroid pesticides. They are overused and misused by both individuals and commercial people. As a commercial applicator, my go to for Armyworm is Dylox 420 SL + either Merit or Arena. Never Bifenthrin. As I was telling @thegrassfactor insects eat my lunch 12 months out of the year. I remember answering calls from concerned homeowners in October and November. They just had some Tifgrand installed and the Armyworms and Tropical Sod Webworms were eating. To the tune of $7 per sq ft. Acelepryn is out for me. Hawaii Department of Agriculture will not allow that product into the state. It is a ground water pollutant.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

My wife suggested spraying the entire yard with soapy water and when they come to the surface then spray them with insecticide to kill the worms. Maybe even a mixture of soapy water and insecticide. Not sure if it would work but sounds plausible.

Super Sod recommended only using Bifenthrrin to kill the Army Worms.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

What fertilizer do I put down to help the grass recover after the worms are dead?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

testdepth said:


> What fertilizer do I put down to help the grass recover after the worms are dead?


My vote would be any kind of fast release N, timed with pending rain, so as to avoid burning the turf.


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## JRS 9572 (May 28, 2018)

Does anyone on here think that aeration of the turf and then spraying to kill the worms would work? The aeration helping the insecticide penetrate deep into the clay soil.

Also if it is Super Sod, and they offer to re-sod again, then ask them if they would pull the next batch from the Orangeburg, SC farm. Orangeburg is on the coastal plain (pre-historic times the ocean covered it,) and it is as much a sandy soil as you will find. I know they grow Tif-Tuff there as well. Tif-Tuff wasn't available when my new home was built in 2015 and TifGrand was put in from their Orangeburg farm. No army worms. Only dollar spot. But that was due to it being put down in April, and water the heck out of the new sod.

I've had army worms on 419 about 16 years ago. One application of Diazanon (no longer made) with a miracle gro garden sprayer over the whole property and 419 was good as new in two weeks. So you can recover from this.


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

JRS 9572 said:


> Does anyone on here think that aeration of the turf and then spraying to kill the worms would work? The aeration helping the insecticide penetrate deep into the clay soil.
> 
> Also if it is Super Sod, and they offer to re-sod again, then ask them if they would pull the next batch from the Orangeburg, SC farm. Orangeburg is on the coastal plain (pre-historic times the ocean covered it,) and it is as much a sandy soil as you will find. I know they grow Tif-Tuff there as well. Tif-Tuff wasn't available when my new home was built in 2015 and TifGrand was put in from their Orangeburg farm. No army worms. Only dollar spot. But that was due to it being put down in April, and water the heck out of the new sod.
> 
> I've had army worms on 419 about 16 years ago. One application of Diazanon (no longer made) with a miracle gro garden sprayer over the whole property and 419 was good as new in two weeks. So you can recover from this.


Armyworms dwell/eat in the canopy. We need the product readily available to them (or on them) in order to get control. Put the product down and do not water it in.

If we were dealing with mole crickets, sure add water. But we're dealing with canopy/crown pests, not subsurface.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

I am in the process of contacting the company who has sprayed my yard 3 times with the last time being this past Friday. I am trying to determine what chemical they are using only because it does NOT work. Definition of insanity is spraying the same chemical over and over with the same result. Late afternoon yesterday we had a down pour of rain which left about 1 1/2 to 2 inches of standing water over the top of my sod. Live Army Worms floating everywhere. Aside from the worms the standing water also makes me call into question the grading for proper water runoff the sod installer was paid to do. So far I regret ever paying to have this sod installed!


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2018)

Maybe while waiting on that company you could spray the stuff @Greendoc or @viva_oldtrafford suggested. Couldn't hurt to slow down the damage. It sucks but it beats waiting on someone else to come around. They seem to know exactly how to treat and rid this issue.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

I have no idea where to find the chemical @Greendoc or @viva_oldtrafford suggested?

Where I live there are a couple of big box stores and a Tractor Supply.


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## Jimefam (Jun 22, 2018)

Try domyown.com you can use the link at the top of the page here also to support the site.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

firefighter11 said:


> Maybe while waiting on that company you could spray the stuff @Greendoc or @viva_oldtrafford suggested. Couldn't hurt to slow down the damage. It sucks but it beats waiting on someone else to come around. They seem to know exactly how to treat and rid this issue.


I'd be careful treating with anything before you have direct contact with the spraying company. If you do any treatment outside of what they have done they may be able to wash their hands of the situation. Document everything with photos and video with date stamps. It sucks that you have to watch your lawn get worse but it may save you the pain of having to pay for everything yourself.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2018)

TN Hawkeye said:


> firefighter11 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe while waiting on that company you could spray the stuff @Greendoc or @viva_oldtrafford suggested. Couldn't hurt to slow down the damage. It sucks but it beats waiting on someone else to come around. They seem to know exactly how to treat and rid this issue.
> ...


Yeah but the chances of them replacing sod like that this many months later is slim imo. Also how would the spraying company even know. It would be less hassle to just do it yourself.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

Update on my sod worm infestation of the TIFTUF I had put down just a few months ago. DAC Turf came back and used a granular fertilizer a week ago. We have been getting alot of rain nearly every afternoon over the last 2 weeks. The results?
My yard still looks terrible and in some places the sod looks completely dead and brown. This has been the worst experience possible and right now I would not recommend TIFTUF


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Sorry you're having a bad experience. I don't think the Bermuda cultivar to blame for being eaten by pests that weren't controlled. Fire the company and get someone else who knows how to control the pests to come in. You have plenty of growing season left for it to recover.


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2018)

testdepth said:


> Update on my sod worm infestation of the TIFTUF I had put down just a few months ago. DAC Turf came back and used a granular fertilizer a week ago. We have been getting alot of rain nearly every afternoon over the last 2 weeks. The results?
> My yard still looks terrible and in some places the sod looks completely dead and brown. This has been the worst experience possible and right now I would not recommend TIFTUF or DAC Turf to anyone!


Lots of help has been forwarded your way in this thread in regards on what to do. There's enough time this year you probably can get it looking right. I don't think it has anything to do with tiftuf as a cultivar.


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

testdepth said:


> Update on my sod worm infestation of the TIFTUF I had put down just a few months ago. DAC Turf came back and used a granular fertilizer a week ago. We have been getting alot of rain nearly every afternoon over the last 2 weeks. The results?
> My yard still looks terrible and in some places the sod looks completely dead and brown. This has been the worst experience possible and right now I would not recommend TIFTUF or DAC Turf to anyone!


Post updated pics. We'll get you on the right track.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)




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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

Have the army worms been treated and you are trying to get the grass to come back or are you still dealing with the army worms?


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## Gregau33 (Apr 15, 2018)

Man, I'm sorry. I've never seen insect damage so bad. I feel for you... 22 pallets is a lot of money. Hopefully your turf can start to recover and start to spread again


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

The upside, Tiftuf is really good at repair. Time for some fast release nitrogen.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

Ral1121 said:


> Have the army worms been treated and you are trying to get the grass to come back or are you still dealing with the army worms?


Worms have been treated several times and I have seen a couple but not as bad.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

Gregau33 said:


> Man, I'm sorry. I've never seen insect damage so bad. I feel for you... 22 pallets is a lot of money. Hopefully your turf can start to recover and start to spread again


According to the so called experts the worms only eat the tops. As you can see they eat more than that!

There is no way the amount of sod worms were not in the sod or red clay when it was delivered. They did not appear until the first hard rain after the sod was installed.


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## Gregau33 (Apr 15, 2018)

testdepth said:


> Gregau33 said:
> 
> 
> > Man, I'm sorry. I've never seen insect damage so bad. I feel for you... 22 pallets is a lot of money. Hopefully your turf can start to recover and start to spread again
> ...


I hear you. Especially since you never had issues with them in the past. Is sod company willing to replace or sell you some more at cost?


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

I am fairly certain where TIFTUF came from. There is no warranty that I am aware of.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

Sod company verified the delivery date to my home. I sprinkled the recommended mixture 24-0-11 using the recommended spreader on the right setting.


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## erdons (Apr 3, 2018)

If the worms are gone it will bounce back, Bermuda's would survive a nuclear war.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

@testdepth look at this post from my journal from this year. My renovation was mostly dead due to a late seeding, and a massive poa annua problem I did not treat. Pretty much everything you see that was green in the picture taken in March was poa. It wasn't until April that I started seeing the little bit of bermuda that survived start to green up and spread. If *I* can get my yard from the state it was at in March to where it is now, you're in good shape.


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## thegrassfactor (Apr 12, 2017)

testdepth said:


> My TIFTUF sod came from Super Sod they verified the delivery date to my home. To all those stating it will come back I just cannot believe it. I don't believe in Bigfoot, the Easter Bunny or Moth Man and for the life of my I don't see how sprinkling magic fairy dust (fertilizer) on this sod will make it some how come back to life after all of this damage. But I did it anyway and sprinkled the recommended mixture 24-0-11 using the recommended spreader on the right setting. Super Sod recommended 25-0-5 but said what I bought is fine. So disgusted, frustrated and angry the entire time laying down the fertilizer.


At some point you're going to have to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and get over it. Yes you spent a lot of money. Yes it presently looks bad. Yes it's going to recover.

You're not dealing with the boogey man, a yeti, or santa clause, this is biology. So you can either do your part to allow the biology to take place and have that nice lawn you wanted, or throw in the towel and call it quits. Regardless of your frustrations, it's time to man up or put up.

You could have gotten the army worms from the sod farm. Army worms only eat the green foliage off the plant. If it appears to be more so, that's your untrained eye looking at the damage. Are you sure you're not looking at sod webworm damage? Regardless, they're treated the same. The damage is the same.

Sod grown on clay is good sod.

Out of frustration did you stop watering? Don't. Keep going. Don't quit.

The contractor didn't warn you about because he didn't think to. Army worms are all over the news every couple of years. After 19 years in where I assume is Georgia, it probably slipped his mind since it's usually the rage and 99% of people he deals with know about them.

Army worms come in cycles. It's better to apply a systemic, as well as contact, if they surface during the growing season.

Again, the damage is purely aesthetic.

It's time to start a fertilizer program and regrow it quickly or just continue to water and let it recover on its own.

Don't worry about the weeds. It's new sod. Address them next year.

Again, I get you're frustrated, but this is a great opportunity for you to become involved and really learn what you purchased. Your purchased a biological anomoly - a monoculture stand of high performance, sensitive, plants. Sod doesn't guarantee success. It's simply a means to an end.

Lawn care isn't for everyone. It's time to ask yourself if it's right for you. If I spent $11k on sod, you better start learning and putting what you learned in the action ASAP.


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## raldridge2315 (Jul 1, 2017)

thegrassfactor said:


> testdepth said:
> 
> 
> > My TIFTUF sod came from Super Sod they verified the delivery date to my home. To all those stating it will come back I just cannot believe it. I don't believe in Bigfoot, the Easter Bunny or Moth Man and for the life of my I don't see how sprinkling magic fairy dust (fertilizer) on this sod will make it some how come back to life after all of this damage. But I did it anyway and sprinkled the recommended mixture 24-0-11 using the recommended spreader on the right setting. Super Sod recommended 25-0-5 but said what I bought is fine. So disgusted, frustrated and angry the entire time laying down the fertilizer.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

Right now I think my biggest problem is the lack of drainage in my backyard. I don't believe new sod does well submerged under water for 2 to 3 days after a heavy rain and then another few days before the surface water is soaked in but ground still squishy. The sod installer said they would grade my yard for positive drainage. It appears they graded my yard mostly flat and then left a high area where the water is supposed to drain off towards the side street. Not sure if the mud against the sandy soil creates a barrier preventing percolation or not but I end up with more standing water than ever before.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

testdepth said:


> Right now I think my biggest problem is the lack of drainage in my backyard. I don't believe new sod does well submerged under water for 2 to 3 days after a heavy rain and then another few days before the surface water is soaked in but ground still squishy. The sod installer said they would grade my yard for positive drainage. It appears they graded my yard mostly flat and then left a high area where the water is supposed to drain off towards the side street. Not sure if the mud against the sandy soil creates a barrier preventing percolation or not but I end up with more standing water than ever before.


Sounds like you need some Air8


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## sanders4617 (Jul 9, 2018)

testdepth said:


> Right now I think my biggest problem is the lack of drainage in my backyard. I don't believe new sod does well submerged under water for 2 to 3 days after a heavy rain and then another few days before the surface water is soaked in but ground still squishy. The sod installer said they would grade my yard for positive drainage. It appears they graded my yard mostly flat and then left a high area where the water is supposed to drain off towards the side street. Not sure if the mud against the sandy soil creates a barrier preventing percolation or not but I end up with more standing water than ever before.


If your grass is submerged in water for 2-3 days, that's no good. Then another few days for it to dry out from that?

When fall and winter arrive, go ahead and amplify that. Less sun and heat to dry that ground up. I'd work on getting it draining better. Like @Gibby said.. try Air8 at the least.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

Trying to figure out what professional can check the grading of my yard?

Who do you call?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)




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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

testdepth said:


> Trying to figure out what professional can check the grading of my yard?
> 
> Who do you call?


Call? Just put some wood sticks into the ground with a mallet enough so they won't fall over. Tie a string on one and stretch it to the next stake. Wrap it around a few times and tie it. Use a string level which is a bubble level in a plastic thing you hang on the string. Check in the middle to make sure your string is level and also make sure it isn't sagging. Then, measure from the string to the ground. It should drop 2.5" every 10'. More is fine but you probably don't want a lot less than that if you want it to drain. The highest part should be next to the house and the lowest part should be somewhere in your yard where the water can enter a storm sewer, go into the street, go into a stream, but somewhere off your property. Also, don't grade it toward your neighbor... Watch this starting at 1:10 to see how to set this up.

If adding soil next to the house, try to keep it 6" or more below the bottom of the siding. Make sure to compact the soil with a tamper or stomp on it with your feet. If you are already there but the soil 10' from the house is higher, start removing that soil until you are lower. Then, the water will run from next to the house, away from the foundation, and out into your yard. Then the whole yard should be graded so it moves all the water off the property. Imagine a v shape to the soil where your house is on one side and if the property is higher elsewhere, that would be the other side of the v. The water would run down the slopes into the v but you also need to grade the v so it acts essentially like a ditch and water would flow one direction and off your property. We are talking about essentially a shallow v. If this is too much work to regrade, you could measure it yourself and hire someone to use a skid steer to make quick work of it.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

Here is my backyard after the landscaper "positively graded" and laid the sod. I own a brick ranch on a concrete slab and the water is supposed to drain towards the fence in the background. The city came today and cleaned out the ditch on the backside of the fence. This photo is after a heavy rain.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Oh man, my yard used to look like that after 0.5" of rain. The problem that I have is that my yard has settled, and I have a lot of low spots that need to be levelled out. Where does that downspout connected to the drain go to? Is there any positive drainage on the yard at all? Any noticeable low spots? I can predictably tell what spots in the yard are going to take the longest to drain, and they are the first ones to fill up in my yard (front and back).

I called a drainage landscape company to come give me an estimate for remedy of my flooding/standing water issue. The contractor actually set up a transit, and shot the grades on my whole lot, and explained to me what was going on with my lot. I don't have the $10K that he quoted me to put into the lot; frankly, I'd rather renovate the kitchen and get a better ROI. But the fact that he came out and shot the grades gave me some ideas on what needs to be done to help with my situation.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

testdepth said:


> Here is my backyard after the sod company "positively graded" and laid the sod. I own a brick ranch on a concrete slab and the water is supposed to drain towards the fence in the background. The city came today and cleaned out the ditch on the backside of the fence. This photo is after a heavy rain.


I think I would be sending that pic to the company that "positively graded" your yard. It's easy to see that the highest spot is the furthest from your house. From what I've read, armyworms love wet soil and stressed plants. You have both. If you've had water like that since the sod was layed then chances are the worms weren't in the sod.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

If you aren't interested in lifting the sod and filling underneath, I would start adding layers of sand where you want it higher, near the house and patio. It'll take many layers but you can get those spots higher so the water will not be near the house. Another option is to install a drainage setup in the middle of the lawn with a tube to the lowest spot behind the fence so the water can drain so you don't have a pond. This is, of course, if there is a lower spot behind the fence for the water to exit... You could always try air8 in addition. Buy the 5 gal pack and spray it at the 9oz rate once a month for 2 months. Worked wonders for me. Maybe worth a try?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Do you have a pic of the ditch behind the fence?


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

TN Hawkeye said:


> testdepth said:
> 
> 
> > Here is my backyard after the sod company "positively graded" and laid the sod. I own a brick ranch on a concrete slab and the water is supposed to drain towards the fence in the background. The city came today and cleaned out the ditch on the backside of the fence. This photo is after a heavy rain.
> ...


I have sent several pictures to DAC Turf and Landscape and Weedman of Brunswick. Same guy owns both. They used a landscape pulverizer in my backyard. Then installed an irrigation system and laid down bales of peat moss. Then laid the 22 pallets of sod. At no time did they check the grade or use anything to grade my yard. After the first heavy rain my yard looked like the picture.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Do you have a pic of the ditch behind the fence?


Pictures showing the ditch the city cleaned for the first time in 19yrs. I was just told by my neighbor that they will come next week and clean it out all the way to the corner of my front yard.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

The ditch looks lower. You would have to measure the difference between the spot behind the fence and compare the height to the middle of your yard. If it is lower, you can install a drain to dump the water behind the fence. Check out this for an example with a pump so pitch doesn't matter. This is if you have enough height difference.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Check out the second post by 95mmrenegade. This is what proper grading is. A shallow v so all the water in the yard will collect there and then ideally, it is also pitched to a place off the property so if it keeps raining, it'll turn into a river and flow away, not a lake and just sit there.

Using that example, you can start adding sand on the sides of the yard to slowly create this grade and leave the middle lower.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

Just an update.

Everyone keeps saying this TIFTUF will recover but it is now 8/25 and my yard looks no better. Now it is infested with sod webworms. I just sprayed yet again. I was actually standing in the backyard yesterday with the owner of the company that laid the sod down. He tells me 2 large spots are dead and won't recover. While we are standing there he looks down and says "there's a worm". Then I start looking and spotting more worms. He said they were sod webworms.

His service sprayed 3 different types of chemicals and I sprayed 2. I sprayed Bifenthrin today.

We did everything we were supposed to do and followed all directions. Hired a service to take care of it. This sod did not perform well here in South East GA.


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## Gregau33 (Apr 15, 2018)

testdepth said:


> Just an update.
> 
> Everyone keeps saying this TIFTUF will recover but it is now 8/25 and my yard looks no better. Now it is infested with sod webworms. I just sprayed yet again. I was actually standing in the backyard yesterday with the owner of the company that laid the sod down. He tells me 2 large spots are dead and won't recover. While we are standing there he looks down and says "there's a worm". Then I start looking and spotting more worms. He said they were sod webworms.
> 
> ...


Did any of it survive? What would you say percentage wise what made it and what bit the dust? Sorry to hear about this... 22 pallets of sod is a ton of money.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Aside from blaming the sod farm, what is your plan moving forward?


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

Gregau33 said:


> testdepth said:
> 
> 
> > Just an update.
> ...


I would say probably 30% to 40% didn't make it.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> Aside from blaming the sod farm, what is your plan moving forward?


I put down fertilizer 2 weeks ago and some of it greened back up but most of it did not. The owner of the company that laid the sod looked at it and said "to be honest with you those sections are dead and won't come back". The 30% to 40% is what he was talking about. He is coming back to install a drain system at no cost, to get the water out of my backyard during heavy rains. Then we will discuss replacing sod.

As far as TIFTUF goes? It's not so tough and very susceptible to sod web worms and army worms and probably every other bug in SE GA. It does NOT recover well and I would save your money and do not use it.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

My sod was laid about 3 months ago. It went from this:





To this taken today. All brown areas are dead. After multiple doses of insecticide and fertilizer and then more Bifenthrin. After heavy rains I also had water sitting on the ground for days at a time and I believe that is due to the amount of clay under the sod acting like a water barrier slowing down the percolation into my sandy soil. See plug picture showing 1/2 to 3/4 inch clay compacted above the sandy soil underneath. It was delivered with 1.5 to 2 inches of red clay attached to each piece and now it has compacted to 1/2 to 3/4 inch solid red clay.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

It is consider a well drain permeable sandy loam soil. Just because it is red in color doesn't mean it's a clay soil.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

I think you're onto something with the clay on the sand. Maybe do a core aeration, rake up the cores, and back fill with sand? This should give you lots of drainage holes and help to alleviate the puddling problem. With proper drainage and getting rid of the bugs, I'm sure the grass will thrive.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

I'd expect whatever you have left to spread and fill in, assuming sufficient sunlight.

Are you going to remove and replace?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

How much time does your dog spend in the backyard?


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> How much time does your dog spend in the backyard?


I have 2 Cane Corsos that spend very little time outside.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

I have been in contact with Professor Schwartz at UGA (YOUTUBE and search TIFTUF) and he would be considered the expert on this grass as UGA developed it. I sent him all of the same information and pictures. I received his response yesterday and this is what he had to say:

Based on your last picture, it seems you've identified the underlying problem of why the TifTuf won't recover after the rain and insect damage. Soil layering is not ideal, and could be responsible for your turf decline. I really am not sure how this can be overcome without a complete renovation. In retrospect, it would have been much more ideal to buy sod from one of our TifTuf producers with sandy soils. There are several in GA and north FL. I haven't visited Buy Sod's farm in Soperton, GA but Pike Creek Turf in Adel, GA and Superior Turf in Ashburn, GA definitely have sand soils. It is odd that they/you went to so much trouble to prepare your soil (adding peat moss, etc) only to add a heavier soil on-top.

The "last picture" he is talking about is the one of the grass plug showing the red clay soil sitting on top of the sandy soil. I had no say as to what sod farm was used. I told the landscape company I wanted TIFTUF and he chose where to buy it from.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> I think you're onto something with the clay on the sand. Maybe do a core aeration, rake up the cores, and back fill with sand? This should give you lots of drainage holes and help to alleviate the puddling problem. With proper drainage and getting rid of the bugs, I'm sure the grass will thrive.


I core aerated twice in an effort to help drainage. I drove over areas that held water and when the plugs would come out you could see bubbles coming up which means to me that is the problem. I posted a response from a UGA professor and in his opinion this will not come back and it sounds like all of the sod with clay needs to be removed and sod that has sandy soil bottoms that closely match my existing yard needs to be installed.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

testdepth said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> > I think you're onto something with the clay on the sand. Maybe do a core aeration, rake up the cores, and back fill with sand? This should give you lots of drainage holes and help to alleviate the puddling problem. With proper drainage and getting rid of the bugs, I'm sure the grass will thrive.
> ...


I think redoing it would be the ideal solution but that is the most $$. When you did a core aeration did you remove the cores and back fill with sand? I think this would be the most cost effective solution. Perhaps doing this once a year or more for a few years may solve your problem for a much lower cost. Just make sure you are pulling good and deep cores. You will reduce the amount of clay on the surface and get more sand mixed into it as well as giving you drain holes. The same idea as what a golf course does. Plus, you get to level your yard with the sand.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

I had a different landscape company come out and look at my problem yard. They will tear all of the damaged, dead or dying TIFTUF completely out along with the red base soil it came with. Then start over and add topsoil to regrade my yard and then install new sod.


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

The sod company has contacted me and has said they will refund me for the 22 pallets of sod. Thanks for everyone's inputs.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

What type of sod?


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## testdepth (Jul 11, 2018)

After several discussions with the sod company about the problems I have been having, they have offered to provide me a refund for the 22 pallets of sod.

I wish to delete this topic from this forum but the owner of this website refuses to delete it. I asked nicely and politely for him to delete it but he says "no". Apparently anything you post on this particular website is here forever.

Thank you any way.

To everyone else that offered suggestions and help I appreciate it very much and thanks to all of you for your opinions.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

testdepth said:


> ...I wish to delete this topic from this forum but the owner of this website refuses to delete it. I asked nicely and politely for him to delete it but he says "no". Apparently anything you post on this particular website is here forever.


As I explained to you...

As an author here at TLF you may edit, modify or delete the contents of your own posts in an active topic as long as you are a member in good standing; however, such edits would have no effect on any quoted extracts made by other forum members. This is a public forum and we do not allow members to delete a post (or an entire topic for that matter) after another member becomes an active participant in the discussion. Doing so would disrupt the flow of the forum and the integrity of the community we have built here. If I were to delete this entire topic, it would not be fair to the other participants in this discussion. There are negative product/service reviews elsewhere on TLF, and we do not go around deleting topics just because a company ultimately offers to make it right. I would argue people actually gain more respect for a company once they see that they are willing to take care of the customer. That said, I couldn't help but notice that you are not the first TLF member that a company has tried to convince in one way or another to remove a negative review:



Justin said:


> Red clay tifftuf is the worst sod I've ever encountered and sold at a premium over regular sod.
> 
> Super sod delivered 2 pallets in April for me, all of it was dead within 3 weeks. I wrote a review on their facebook page, and they shipped me 2 more pallets free of charge. I just installed it Saturday. Again what was delivered was half dead and essentially the worst looking sod I'd ever seen. *All the while they are asking every day for me to remove my review.*
> 
> I can ensure you that the worm infestation came from Murphy Ga where the red clay farm is located.


I apologize for the inconvenience, but I am not a member of any online forum that would do what you asked me to do. I know of another lawn forum that does not even allow members to edit their own posts. Please consider this before posting _anything_ on public forums.



testdepth said:


> After several discussions with the sod company about the problems I have been having, they have offered to provide me a refund for the 22 pallets of sod...


I am glad they are offering to take care of you, and I wish you all the best. :thumbsup:

I think we have reached a point where the information content of this discussion has essentially been exhausted and further replies are much more likely to cause distress to the community than add anything of value. This topic is locked until further notice.


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