# **Urea 46-0-0 as a Winterizer?!**



## Mike1Bravo (Oct 11, 2018)

Good evening all,

As the subject states, I'm curious as to your opinion(s) on utilizing Urea Fertilizer 46-0-0 (Lesco NOS brand) as my winterizer. Located in Southern NJ. Usually, I throw down Milorganite at about 12 lbs/1k as my winterizer. However, I'm curious as to how Urea would serve me. I would imagine water it in 1/4" immediately after applying? Hopefully, we won't get too many warm days to make this thing activate? My goal is to have it wake the lawn up first thing in the spring.

Pics for pleasure.


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

Mike1Bravo said:


> Good evening all,
> 
> As the subject states, I'm curious as to your opinion(s) on utilizing Urea Fertilizer 46-0-0 (Lesco NOS brand) as my winterizer. Located in Southern NJ. Usually, I throw down Milorganite at about 12 lbs/1k as my winterizer. However, I'm curious as to how Urea would serve me. I would imagine water it in 1/4" immediately after applying? Hopefully, we won't get too many warm days to make this thing activate? My goal is to have it wake the lawn up first thing in the spring.
> 
> Pics for pleasure.


I believe there's some research and tlf member experience which indicated there is/was no benefit to a "winterizer". Granular urea is a great fall fert, esp weekly in low doses. Once you water it in it will be taken up by the plant. It's a fast acting N source so don't expect it to last until spring.


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## Tsmith (Aug 11, 2017)

The Winterizer app should be dropped after your lawn has stopped growing but before it goes dormant so it can be absorbed and stored for Spring and because of this you want to use something that is fast release. Most will time their winterizer once their mower is no longer taking clippings off by doing weekly checks.

The NOS Urea you mentioned is coated for slow release so I wouldn't recommend it for the winterizer app.

The non coated 46-0-0 Urea is what most use for the winterizer app at 2lbs N per k.

Off Topic: Since you are in NJ see if you can find a source for OceanGro which is NJ's version of Milorganite but cheaper and heavier per bag.


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## Fraust (Apr 4, 2021)

If you want spring greenup/wakeup, just fertilize in the spring. 
Emerging research, and anecdotal evidence from members here, lean toward there being no benefit at all to any kind of "winterizer" application.


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## Kigiin (Sep 10, 2021)

Nice dog


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## Obi Lawn Kenobi (Jun 20, 2021)

In the years that I have fertilized in spring I have noticed that: 1.) I get a terrible outbreak of weeds and/or grassy weeds and 2.) it exhausts my lawn due to the excessive top growth push from the high input N on top of a natural spring flush. This carries into the hot, dry months of summer and my lawn just looks plain awful as it runs out of gas from the stress. I have done a 'winterizer' app( Lesco 21-0-21 75% Polyplus) the last 2 years and have noticed a dramatic difference. This will be my first year doing the 'fall blitz' and I anxiously await the results next spring. I will be using 46-0-0 (100% FAST RELEASE) as my final app when the lawn stops growing. The 'fall blitz' isn't for everyone as it takes a lot of work and timing. Not everyone is willing to put in that kind of effort to test the results. These are just the results I see based upon my turf type, soil, growing conditions and timing and I have very unique weather patterns. It seems the anecdotal evidence people experience with a 'winterizer' app depend upon these variables.


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

Obi Lawn Kenobi said:


> In the years that I have fertilized in spring I have noticed that: 1.) I get a terrible outbreak of weeds and/or grassy weeds and 2.) it exhausts my lawn due to the excessive top growth push from the high input N on top of a natural spring flush. This carries into the hot, dry months of summer and my lawn just looks plain awful as it runs out of gas from the stress. I have done a 'winterizer' app( Lesco 21-0-21 75% Polyplus) the last 2 years and have noticed a dramatic difference. This will be my first year doing the 'fall blitz' and I anxiously await the results next spring. The 'fall blitz' isn't for everyone as it takes a lot of work and timing. Not everyone is willing to put in that kind of effort to test the results. These are just the results I see based upon my turf type, soil, growing conditions and timing and I have very unique weather patterns. It seems the anecdotal evidence people experience with a 'winterizer' app depend upon these variables.


What rates were your N apps in the spring? Did the improved appearance after a winterizer coincide with a lack of spring fert?


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

There is research based evidence out there that suggests a Winterizer app is of little benefit - although I am unable to locate the source.

I agree there is some anecdotal evidence people provide on TLF; but there is also "real" research that has been done in this area.

My advice is to try doing it and record your results the following Spring. Then don't do it the following Fall and monitor the results again. Make the decision based on your own research.


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## gasdoc (Jul 24, 2019)

At best, it is likely a waste - most is unused by the plant, see research above.

At worst, it may be actively harmful ie runoff into local waterways leading to unintended downstream consequences


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## BigBlue (Aug 27, 2021)

Harts said:


> There is research based evidence out there that suggests a Winterizer app is of little benefit - although I am unable to locate the source.
> 
> I agree there is some anecdotal evidence people provide on TLF; but there is also "real" research that has been done in this area.
> 
> My advice is to try doing it and record your results the following Spring. Then don't do it the following Fall and monitor the results again. Make the decision based on your own research.


Here is a September post from @Harts that has a link to the research and a good recap:



Harts said:


> You'll likely get mixed answers on this. I have stopped doing this, as have many others. I believe the science behind the late season app has changed and the excess nitrogen isn't stored over the Winter as previously thought.
> 
> I do know that there are members that still do it.
> 
> ...


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

I've struggled to understand urea and winterizer with respect to utilization. By the time this application happens the microbial activity is minimal at best so I don't see it being used. I do realize that at that temperature and minimal grease activity it can last a while and be used in the spring.

Ammonium sulfate though is broken down with just water and the ammonium ion is stable compared to the ammonia gas (with urease) so I feel it can be absorbed by the plant if active and he stored better in the soil.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Obi Lawn Kenobi (Jun 20, 2021)

jha4aamu said:


> What rates were your N apps in the spring? Did the improved appearance after a winterizer coincide with a lack of spring fert?


 1 lb. N/1k sq. I have yet to get into spoon feeding, mostly due to time constraints. I tried doing half apps of straight urea this fall but had difficulties spreading that small amount of product with such a small prill size out of my lesco spreader so I stopped midstream and reverted to a full app. 
Not sure if I entirely understand your second question but yes. Beginning in 2018, I dropped a winterizing app in early Nov.( I did not know about waiting for growth stoppage back then)then Did not fertilize again until after Memorial day, approx. Mid-June. I noticed the lawn greened up faster in Spring and overall looked a lot more healthy. It charged full steam ahead all through the hot and dry conditions(although I do have irrigation) of summer and never went dormant. I was getting more top growth in July and August then I did in spring. I hope this helps.


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## Obi Lawn Kenobi (Jun 20, 2021)

Harts said:


> There is research based evidence out there that suggests a Winterizer app is of little benefit - although I am unable to locate the source.
> 
> I agree there is some anecdotal evidence people provide on TLF; but there is also "real" research that has been done in this area.
> 
> My advice is to try doing it and record your results the following Spring. Then don't do it the following Fall and monitor the results again. Make the decision based on your own research.


 I have read some of the research and it just seems that it never pertains to me. They are always done by universities or county extentions in Nebraska, Iowa or Wisconsin regarding Prarie grass, TTTF or rye. I have yet to find one regarding Northern Pennsylvania and KBG.

I believe Canada has severe restrictions on fertilizer availability,application rates and frequency to a point that is almost criminal. Perhaps, these restrictions are shaping your perceptions or affect the research that is available to you. Is 46-0-0 even available to homeowners up there?

I have been in my home for 18 years. I just started winterizing 2 years ago. I have way more experience with not doing it than I have with doing it. All I can say is my lawn has been far superior the last couple years than it was in the previous 16. I do agree with your final assessment. It is not for everyone. I hope this helps.


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

Obi Lawn Kenobi said:


> jha4aamu said:
> 
> 
> > What rates were your N apps in the spring? Did the improved appearance after a winterizer coincide with a lack of spring fert?
> ...


My second question was wondering if the improved appearance was a result of less spring N, or the winterizing app. Depending on timing, rates, type of fert, etc, high amounts of spring N can lead to more weeds, excessive top growth, and cause the plant to deplete its carb storage before summer. The slow release ferts could also be feeding the lawn N during summer months when it doesnt need it.


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## Obi Lawn Kenobi (Jun 20, 2021)

uts said:


> I've struggled to understand urea and winterizer with respect to utilization. By the time this application happens the microbial activity is minimal at best so I don't see it being used. I do realize that at that temperature and minimal grease activity it can last a while and be used in the spring.
> 
> Ammonium sulfate though is broken down with just water and the ammonium ion is stable compared to the ammonia gas (with urease) so I feel it can be absorbed by the plant if active and he stored better in the soil.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


 The way I understand it is there is still enough microbial activity to break down the urea. I am no agronomist but I can't see it taking very much considering its high water solubility. This would move the product into the soil very quickly and deeply where the soil temperatures would be higher hence more bacterial activity still in play. The plants, in survival mode, still digging roots for up to 2 weeks after top growth ceases take up the excess ammonium-N where it gets stored[in the plant] as carbohydrates for later use[spring wake up]. I think the point a lot of people miss about winterizing is the idea is to get the food quickly into the soil where it needs to be stored by the plant NOT the soil for it to work properly. Thus the timing factor being VERY important which is difficult and more than your average home owner wants to take on.

I agree with you. I would prefer to use AS but I am leary due to the high salt content. I have a pH OF 7.0 and high NA in my soil already. I don't want to add fuel to a fire. However, I am considering still using it, as my winterizer app ONLY, due to the points you make above.


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## Obi Lawn Kenobi (Jun 20, 2021)

jha4aamu said:


> My second question was wondering if the improved appearance was a result of less spring N, or the winterizing app. Depending on timing, rates, type of fert, etc, high amounts of spring N can lead to more weeds, excessive top growth, and cause the plant to deplete its carb storage before summer. The slow release ferts could also be feeding the lawn N during summer months when it doesnt need it.


I would have to say both. The winterizer app gave the lawn enough food storage in the fall to have gas to green up quickly and to have overall better health. A deeper, darker green and much, much better spread. I was getting horizontal spread like I've never seen before in my lawn. I never knew it could do that. It was healing itself and kept me out of the yard which sometimes can be a good thing. I can tend to overdo stuff even with the best intentions. I never felt the need to go out and drop unnecessary product. It just plain looked good. It started looking a little hazy in early June. On June 14th I dropped .5 lb. N/1K2 urea and never looked back. 
Now keep in mind. I wasn't even doing it right. The way I was doing it was basically doing a dormant spring app dropped late in the previous fall. I can't wait to see what the results are like next spring if I can get this right. I hope this helps.


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## Mike1Bravo (Oct 11, 2018)

Are you guys tank mixing this stuff or granular only?


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## Obi Lawn Kenobi (Jun 20, 2021)

Granular only for me.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Obi Lawn Kenobi said:


> I believe Canada has severe restrictions on fertilizer availability,application rates and frequency to a point that is almost criminal. Perhaps, these restrictions are shaping your perceptions or affect the research that is available to you. Is 46-0-0 even available to homeowners up there?


We do have restrictions with chemicals but not with fertilizer - although we can't get Milo or Yard Mastery prodcuts (which is just fine).

There are zero restrictions regarding frequency and application rates. There is no criminality involved with using fertilizer in Canada.

Yes, we have Urea and Ammonium Sulfate. My perceptions are shaped by the research I have read and the advice given by respected members on TLF. Additionally, my perceptions are shaped mostly by my own experience. Having done a Urea Winterizer app one year, then not doing it the following year, I did not notice a significant difference one way or the other.

The research available to me is the same that is available to you. Internet in Canada isn't different than the US.

I encourage anyone interested to try it both ways. The great thing about lawn care is, there's always next year.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

The winterizer question always seems to bring out lots of emotions from both sides. Some swear by it, others do not see the importance.

For me I have done both ways and the main point I have taken away is as long as you have got down enough nitrogen in the early part of fall (September) when uptake is higher, the winterizer app is not necessary. Not that it will harm anything but it is more or less a wasted application. As we know this is what a lot of research is telling us and what some turfgrass professionals are saying.

If you think the lawn is lacking nitrogen in spring you can do a light application but chances are it won't be if you provided enough the previous early fall.

Now if you did not get down enough nitrogen in the early fall then maybe a winterizer would be helpful.

Here's a webinar that explains it. It's been posted a few times on the forum and was posted again in another thread by a turfgrass professional a few days ago.

https://www.turfnet.com/webinar_archives.html/fall-winter-prep-part-i-fundamentals-of-fall-fertilization-r187/


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## NJ-lawn (Jun 25, 2018)

I think I'm gonna opt out on winterizer this year. It's been such a warm fall this year I'm getting enough Nitrogen down that I don't think I'm going to miss a winterizer app. Not the only reason, that video was very clear. Seems like a waste, besides I'm blowing out irrigation early Nov


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## Obi Lawn Kenobi (Jun 20, 2021)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> The winterizer question always seems to bring out lots of emotions from both sides. Some swear by it, others do not see the importance.
> 
> For me I have done both ways and the main point I have taken away is as long as you have got down enough nitrogen in the early part of fall (September) when uptake is higher, the winterizer app is not necessary. Not that it will harm anything but it is more or less a wasted application. As we know this is what a lot of research is telling us and what some turfgrass professionals are saying.


I have 2 lbs. N down between now and Aug. 23rd. Actually, the lawn was looking quite gassed 2 weeks ago when I got home from vacation. I was so tempted to drop another half app but didn't. Man, do I regret it. This KBG is hungry! 


SNOWBOB11 said:


> If you think the lawn is lacking nitrogen in spring you can do a light application but chances are it won't be if you provided enough the previous early fall.


Arguably the worst time of the year to turn your lawn into a weed farm. 


SNOWBOB11 said:


> Now if you did not get down enough nitrogen in the early fall then maybe a winterizer would be helpful.
> 
> Here's a webinar that explains it. It's been posted a few times on the forum and was posted again in another thread by a turfgrass professional a few days ago.
> 
> https://www.turfnet.com/webinar_archives.html/fall-winter-prep-part-i-fundamentals-of-fall-fertilization-r187/


Sorry, couldn't get past the 4:46 mark where they stated the study pertains to creeping bent and annual blue grass management. I hope this helps.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

@Obi Lawn Kenobi Spring nitrogen won't turn your lawn into a weed farm. I don't know where you got this from.

It's too bad you didn't listen to the webinar. It's very interesting and from a trusted source in the turfgrass industry.

Don't worry too much about not dropping any nitrogen two weeks ago. The October nitrogen apps start to become less effective anyways.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> @Obi Lawn Kenobi Spring nitrogen won't turn your lawn into a weed farm. I don't know where you got this from.
> 
> It's too bad you didn't listen to the webinar. It's very interesting and from a trusted source in the turfgrass industry.
> 
> Don't worry too much about not dropping any nitrogen two weeks ago. The October nitrogen apps start to become less effective anyways.


I agree. I don't think spring N results in more weeds. I just don't want to push a lot of top growth, and I find timing in early spring to be a challenge due to inconsistent weather. I prefer to wait until mid May and apply a slower release blend to roll me into summer.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

+1. I use a 25-5-10 in May. Mix of fast and slow release.

Nitrogen can increase weed growth anytime of year. What's so special about the Spring? If weeds are an issue, nitrogen is the least of your worries. Use a pre emergent.


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## Obi Lawn Kenobi (Jun 20, 2021)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> @Obi Lawn Kenobi Spring nitrogen won't turn your lawn into a weed farm. I don't know where you got this from.


 Mostly reading about others troubles and my own bad experience with poa triv in the spring. 
A lot of different weeds go to seed in the fall(grassy weeds in particular). They lie dormant all winter waiting to pop alive in the spring. If you don't give them any food or water and you have a good tall stand of grass to crowd them out. They stand little chance of germinating thus naturally controlling the population without chemicals. This is particularly handly if you have to do spring over seeding or renovations. Yes, you can apply a pre-M when soil temps hit 50 degrees but don't think about throwing a grass seed out until August[unless you are removing the top layer of soil]. Personally, I think i have things under control now and will be able to apply my pre-M in the spring[finally 😀] so old habits may be dying hard but there are a multitude of other reasons why not to fertilize in the spring.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Obi Lawn Kenobi said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> > @Obi Lawn Kenobi Spring nitrogen won't turn your lawn into a weed farm. I don't know where you got this from.
> ...


I suspect most of the with Poa Triv in the spring is because it is active in cool weather and easily seen. In the hot of the summer it can go dormant. A healthy stand of turf will choke out weeds, but I don't see the relation with the fertilizer.

I have done pre-emergent the last three years (this year included) and done overseeds and reno's in the same year. You just put the pre-m down at a 3 or 4 month rate so it worn off by August.. If you are planning to throw down seed earlier than that you probably have other issues that would make your situation unique.

I don't like early spring fertilizer because I don't like to push more top growth when there is already new spring flush. Spring is also very inconsistent weather wise. We can get 70's in April and still get snow or near freezing days in early May.


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## RJM2017 (Mar 30, 2021)

What is the target temperature to drop the N down as a winterizer ?


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## NJ-lawn (Jun 25, 2018)

RJM2017 said:


> What is the target temperature to drop the N down as a winterizer ?


Usually drop winterizer when the grass stops growing.


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## Obi Lawn Kenobi (Jun 20, 2021)

RJM2017 said:


> What is the target temperature to drop the N down as a winterizer ?


If I can't go by the mow test(we sometimes get early odd ball snow storms here or days on end with sleet and hail). I look for soil temperatures @ 4 in. Depth consistently between 33 to 40 F over at least a 3 to 5 day period.


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