# Burned yard killing off crabgrass



## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

So I got a product from tractor supply labeled for Bermuda grass to kill crabgrass since my celcius app did not work. It was a mix of 2,4-d, quinclorac, and dicamba. I applied it through a bottle that hooks up to a hose. This was 2 days ago and now my yard is torched. Is this normal for this product? How long will it take my yard to recover? Thinking about also just scalping and resetting the height. Would that be a good idea or cause too much stress on the yard. Thinking if my yard already looks bad, might as well scalp to lower my cutting height.
Before 2 days ago



After spraying 2 days ago


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Looks like San Antonio saw 102°F yesterday. Way too hot to be spraying that stuff.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Bummer right before the 4th of july


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

2,4-D on low cut Bermuda in those temperatures is harsh. Supposedly, hybrid Bermuda is also marginally tolerant of Quinclorac as well. That looks like about what happens when I use Dismiss at this time of the year. Grass should grow back and be green in a couple of weeks after you scalp off the singed grass.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

I thought I could get away by doing it right before it got dark. It was around 80 when I sprayed it. I guess I learned my lesson.

@Greendoc 
Is there anything I can spray in these temps to get control of crabgrass and not torch the yard?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I use Revolver+Celsius, but that is an expensive tank mix. 80 when you sprayed, but how hot did it get the next day? It gets into the low to mid 70s after 5 here, but I can really torch a lawn if it goes above 80 the next day. Sometimes I think I am more of a meteorologist than a turf manager. It is not easy getting my customers to think about more than what they want to see that fits into the program of what they want. I need to point out wind, rain, and occasionally excessive heat.


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## rhanna (Jun 7, 2017)

Are you sure it's crabgrass and not something else? I sprayed some areas in my lawn with Celsius in the spring and then a mix of quinclorac and 2-4D a couple of weeks ago and some weeds are barely fazed. So I think maybe it's dallisgrass. I'm tempted to use a method that I saw by Jason Creel where he took a small handful of straight nitrogen and dropped it in the center of the weed.

The quinclorac/2-4D mix really hurt my lawn where I spot sprayed and it still hasn't recovered and I sprayed when the temps were under 85 for a few days. I think maybe I just over applied.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

@Greendoc 
It gets into the mid 70's over night and will get up to 100 during the day. I thought I was safe as long as when I actually applied it was not too hot. I guess not.

@rhanna

Im pretty sure it was crabgrass. Celcius kind of stunted it but it came right back. It is already yellowing and browning now after my recent app of what I put down a couple days ago. So I believe I got rid of my crabgrass but at the expense of the rest of the yard.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Here's why I say I play meteorologist. I have to think about temperature and potential for rainfall 7 days beyond when an application was made. The people that think they are getting around a temperature restriction by doing the application at 5 AM when the temperature was 79.999 degrees only to have it go up 85 or higher that day should have slept in and forgotten about it. If it goes up that high the next day or higher, still no good as you and I know.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

rhanna said:


> I'm tempted to use a method that I saw by Jason Creel where he took a small handful of straight nitrogen and dropped it in the center of the weed.


That's an interesting approach. Sounds a lot cheaper than a chemical application, quicker to apply, no tank to clean out, and, it's rainfast!


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> Here's why I say I play meteorologist. I have to think about temperature and potential for rainfall 7 days beyond when an application was made. The people that think they are getting around a temperature restriction by doing the application at 5 AM when the temperature was 79.999 degrees only to have it go up 85 or higher that day should have slept in and forgotten about it. If it goes up that high the next day or higher, still no good as you and I know.


How long does it need to be below the temp limit? One day? Two days? One week? Does the answer change if it rains?

Do you apply at lower rates instead?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

A week. In the rare instance that it is also raining, that does not matter. The combination of high humidity with heat that rain brings will torch grass. There are some herbicides I avoid using when the weather has switched from mostly cold and cloudy to warm. Lower rates are not it because that runs the risk of creating resistant weeds. If I cannot use a product at effective rates under the given conditions it is not used at all.


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## rhanna (Jun 7, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> rhanna said:
> 
> 
> > I'm tempted to use a method that I saw by Jason Creel where he took a small handful of straight nitrogen and dropped it in the center of the weed.
> ...


Easier if you only have a few spots but obviously not quicker if you had 100 spots to hand spread. Probably not a strategy you want on some of the lawns on this forum that are near perfect.
My only worry would be if I don't kill the weed from fertilizer burn, what kind of weed will I be left with when it comes back stronger.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Tried that approach. No good and for the time it takes and results I get, not worth it. In my earlier years, I torched lawns with liquid fertilizer mixing up overly concentrated mixes. Weeds handled it better than the grass on top of that.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@rhanna and @Greendoc Thanks for the prompt answer.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

So this means no one should apply Celsius over 85 degrees correct? @Greendoc
Also if this is the case what are the best herbcides for summer applications?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

CenlaLowell said:


> So this means no one should apply Celsius over 85 degrees correct?


I spray Celsius on my bermuda when temps are over 85°F.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

I tried Celsius and it did not work on the crabgrass. It gets rid of a lot of other things without burning up the yard in the summer though. That is the only reason I went to something else.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

CenlaLowell said:


> So this means no one should apply Celsius over 85 degrees correct? Greendoc
> Also if this is the case what are the best herbcides for summer applications?


No. 2,4-d product labels generally say not to apply in high temps. The OP applied 2,4-d three way in hot weather and caused damaged.

Celsius can be applied in hot temps; Hotter the better.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Forgot to add. Quinclorac isn't always so friendly to hybrid bermuda. And, no offense to the OP, sounds like he may have over applied by using a hose end sprayer. All of those factors combined add up to some unhappy Bermuda grass.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> Forgot to add. Quinclorac isn't always so friendly to hybrid bermuda. And, no offense to the OP, sounds like he may have over applied by using a hose end sprayer. All of those factors combined add up to some unhappy Bermuda grass.


You are correct. It is the last time I will ever use a hose end sprayer and try and save money. I just need to find something I can spray in the summer for crabgrass that does not break the bank. It's all good though because I learned my lesson. The yard will recover and mistakes are some of the best taught lessons in life. I used it as an excuse to scalp my yard down and lower my hoc.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Ral1121 said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> > Forgot to add. Quinclorac isn't always so friendly to hybrid bermuda. And, no offense to the OP, sounds like he may have over applied by using a hose end sprayer. All of those factors combined add up to some unhappy Bermuda grass.
> ...


I am hoping by this point most of it's going to die.

What did you apply for your pre-em, and when?


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

@Movingshrub

I applied Scott's halts end of February early March. I did not know about prodiamine yet at that point. I will definitely be moving to it here soon. Do not know when I will be applying it though as I might be overseeding.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Halts has pendemethin which is a crabgrass preventer. I just don't know that product well enough to know if you needed to do a follow up 3-4 months later, or the time of year for it to be applied in your area.
With that all being said, the Bermuda Triangle is a pretty solid approach. Get your pre-em on lock and you shouldn't have much crabgrass to deal with the next summer. You can hand pull it or brush with glyphosate.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Ral1121 said:


> You are correct. It is the last time I will ever use a hose end sprayer and try and save money. I just need to find something I can spray in the summer for crabgrass that does not break the bank. It's all good though because I learned my lesson. The yard will recover and mistakes are some of the best taught lessons in life. I used it as an excuse to scalp my yard down and lower my hoc.


Good attitude, and thank you for posting about it - I'm sure it will help someone else out down the road. :thumbsup:


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Ware said:


> Ral1121 said:
> 
> 
> > You are correct. It is the last time I will ever use a hose end sprayer and try and save money. I just need to find something I can spray in the summer for crabgrass that does not break the bank. It's all good though because I learned my lesson. The yard will recover and mistakes are some of the best taught lessons in life. I used it as an excuse to scalp my yard down and lower my hoc.
> ...


It already has. I thought that 24 hours of under-85 temperature was sufficient. I had no idea that a week of under 85 is needed.


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

It doesn't look too bad to me. Yeah it's burned but you'll be fine. Give it a month and you'll be back in business


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## Jacob_S (May 22, 2018)

Sadly I did the same thing, I'll be hitting with fert and water!


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

CenlaLowell said:


> So this means no one should apply Celsius over 85 degrees correct? @Greendoc
> Also if this is the case what are the best herbcides for summer applications?


You sure can apply Celsius over 85 degrees. Just be extremely accurate in your rates and precise in application. There is a reason for the pressure controlled hand piece and boom that I use. Also, be mindful of what kind of surfactants or additives you mix with the application. The Bayer guys added that warning about sufactants after hearing some feedback from me. I could load the spray with crop oil concentrate or Methylated Seed oil in cool weather, but had to stop doing that once it got above 80 degrees. In 85 degree weather, the most I would add is 0.25% water based non ionic surfactant. For small mixes that means 2 teaspoons or 10 ML per gallon. If I could not spray above 85, that would mean no spraying at all for years depending on which side of the decadal weather pattern I am in. Hawaii has weather patterns where it is hot for 10+ years. Then it flips to being continuously cold, and rainy for another 10+ years.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Another thing to consider @Ral1121 in the future is to look at Dimension (Dithiopyr)which will provide you PreM control and some PostM control over smaller crabgrass plants. I put that out for my friend on his 20K lawn, and there's some larger plants that powered through and laughed at us because it was so late in the season (Early May). Overall, it's been pretty good at controlling a lot more weeds than he used to have.

@Greendoc so, you're saying we _can_add some NIS at a low rate at our own discretion, right? Any added benefit of doing so?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

@Colonel K0rn When you do add NIS, that keeps the Celsius as a foliar application. Celsius without at least NIS becomes more of a soil application because the product then rolls off of leaves and then has to come back up from the roots. That is what happens to any Sulfonylurea herbicide applied without surfactants. I have not caused unacceptable damage from a calibrated application utilizing NIS. I may see some yellowing and slowing of growth, but when the entire lawn is evenly sprayed rather than individual spots it is far less obvious. Again, that is why I boom spray. Make such an application to a lawn that is glow in the dark green from a solid fertilizer program and no one would be the wiser.


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