# To glypho or not to glypho...



## tnbrews (Jun 2, 2018)

First off, let me say thanks to those of you who read this thread, along with all of the other newbie threads, and are willing to help us out. It's truly appreciated.

So the title sums it up. My wife and I bought a new build just under 2 years ago. The front yard, at just under 2k sqft, was the standard contractor mix/weed salad. The backyard was even worse. It will eventually be hardscaped, so no work will be done back there. In Spring 2017, we attempted to remedy the front yard issues, but certainly would not call it a reno. We removed construction debris; roto-tilled (won't be doing this again); used seed from a big box and then covered with straw. There were so many things done incorrectly, but I didn't realize it at the time.

So I began to research and realized exactly what I wanted. I have read the cool season lawn guide multiple times. I water deeply a couple times a week in a losing attempt to survive this Middle Tennessee summer. I have dropped milo/fert, pre- and post-emergents (starting this past spring, didn't get pre- down in Fall of 2017), and N-ext products. I aerated and overseeded with Hogan's TTTF and 10%KBG last fall. (I won't overseed with KBG going forward but will certainly use Hogan's TTTF.) I keep the grass cut tall. I keep a lawn journal. I have a soil test on its way to Waypoint, and will report back once I get the results. I did not send the test in the Spring as I should have. But in the end, I have a lawn full of weeds and dead/brown areas.

Is there 50% good turf? Yeah, probably. So my question is: do I nuke the yard and start over, or try to salvage what is there? I flip flop each day going between nuking it/starting over or overseeding with a strict pre-m/water/nutrient routine and see what happens next year.

I would like to bring in top soil and sand to help level out areas. So depending on which path I go will help determine how much I have delivered.

I have also been looking at in-ground irrigation but I just am not sure the size, shape, and slope of my yard will work well with it. So I have been looking at doing above-ground with MP rotators. I will post pictures in the irrigation forum to get input on that.

I was never one to truly care how the yard looked, as long as the grass was cut, until I owned my own house. Now I want it to be the best in the neighborhood. So thank you all for knowledge on this forum. I know with the guidance provided here that the yard will certainly become something to be proud of.


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

From your description of the lawns current condition I would say nuke it. If you were to post a pic or two I could possibly change my mind. IMO 2500k is an easy reno considering I did my 19k lawn back in 2013. For mine, 7 tandem loads of dirt was hauled in for the leveling and it took 200lbs of Hogan's TTTF seed. Spent a full day (7am to 8pm) with a skid steer and tractor/box blade combo leveling and another full day seeding and setting up a temp above ground sprinkler system.

If you do nuke it, it would be best to start as soon as possible. Then set up your sprinkler system and begin watering as if you have seed on the ground. What you're trying to accomplish is to germinate any weed seed that's laying around (and there will be more than you think). Spray anything that turns green and continue watering/nuking up until the time you seed. The closer you can get to sterile soil the better you're reno will go. In the meantime, post the soil test results and get started fixing any problems it may show. Come game day you'll be ready to roll!


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## NikeFace (Feb 14, 2018)

Welcome. Others with way more knowledge will chime in.

If it were me, I would consider 50% decent grass as being not too bad, especially considering you went in rather blind.

Is it safe to assume the KBG didn't establish? If not, I would focus on targeting what you have for weeds now, and then seed/heavy overseed with the same/more diverse TTTF in fall (cover with peat, water, water). Use the next few weeks to focus on weeds and the soil test so you start out on best foot possible.

2000 ft is manageable either way. You could take my suggestions plus use sprinklers if necessary (I have ~5000 ft with only sprinklers).

My situation was very similar to yours and turf now looks unbelievable after less than two seasons. I did not do a full reno. But, again, I think 2000 ft is reasonable for either approach - just know a full Reno will be demanding.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Welcome to TLF! Can you post some pictures - they always help narrow down problems and help out with solutions.

My $0.02 is this - Renovation are not easy. Worth it in the end but if not done properly, it can be a waste of time and money. I have not tackled one yet. I am doing a very small 200sf reno in about two weeks. This is the perfect size for me to try out something for the first time.

My suggestion (without seeing pictures), if you truly have 50% good grass, would be to identify the weeds you have, control them with post-emergents, do an overseed and apply Tenacity and a starter fert at seed down and then continue doing everything else you are doing. It will take time to eradicate the weeds and get the lawn growing thick and healthy, however, you should be able to get control back.

Of course if you want a project this Fall, then by all means!!!!!!

This Spring I took a stronger interest in my lawn. My backyard was about 30% weeds. I did a power rake, over seeded and fertilized more often and got on a regular irrigation schedule.

May 9, 2018



June 9, 2018



June 20, 2018


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

This summer has been rough. I was hanging on for dear life at the end of June; July has been kinder.

I understand the indecision. Without seeing pictures, and without soil test data, I would err on the side of overseeding.
However, if you have a lot of invasive grassy weeds like dallisgrass and quackgrass, a reno would be the best route, especially if your soil is in good shape.

So my recommendation is overseeding. But my best advice is to identify your current weeds and make sure your soil will support your seeding. At that point, make a decision on that basis.

Also, I would look to above-ground irrigation options with 2k.


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## Methodical (May 3, 2018)

If 50%, I'd start killing back the weeds. Then I'd cut low, dethatch (maybe even aerate if soil is compact), overseed, fertilize, top dress and water.

Hart's post above is a perfect example of what I'd do and have done in the past with great success. It works. No need to blow it all up. 2k sq' is very manageable even if you don't have an irrigation system.


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## Paulsprimecuts (Jun 13, 2018)

I would nuke it. About 3 times before seeding . With only 2k feet you could easily put a good compost top dressing Dow as well nuke that too. I have had great results with the mount view Ls seed ... irrigation is a must. Good luck ! Mow high!


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## tnbrews (Jun 2, 2018)

Thank you all for the input. I apologize it took a number of days to get back here and was not able to provide prompt responses to your feedback. Life got unexpectedly hectic for a short time.

@ForsheeMS That very well may become the plan.

@NikeFace Some of the of KBG established in certain areas. It would be nice to have in the mix, but not something I must have going forward. Out of curiosity, what kind of sprinklers/setup do you use?

@Harts That's a fantastic change in your yard. The more I look at mine, I wonder if I do truly have 50% good turf...haha more like I have 5% good turf. I will post pictures below, and then may post more over in the weed ID thread.

@social port Hope to have the soil test results by end of week. Your suggestion makes perfect sense. I am not against committing to the workload to reno, but if overseeding is a viable option, then I am all for it.

@Methodical You sum it up well. Even though it is only 2k, that is not a reason to nuke it and start over. It also makes sense to try to salvage, if possible.

@Paulsprimecuts Thanks, I will look into the seed option.

Get ready, this will be cringe worthy. The images that are of similar areas in the yard are from 3 weeks ago and from the last day or so. At a certain point, I was letting the yard grow to see what other weed types came up. Probably not considered a best practice, but I was curious.
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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

FYI: in addition to other grassy weeds, you have bermuda growing in pictures 7-10, and maybe others.

Bermuda is difficult to kill-it can come back next year. There are some really good threads on how to address Bermuda on the forum. Let me know if you have difficulty finding them, and I will point you in the right direction.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

I definitely see what I would assume is common Bermuda in several of the pictures. Especially in one of the close ups. I'm in East Tennessee and decided to go the direction of Bermuda. I can't tell from the photos how much bermuda you have but as one member describes it, it is a devil weed. You can fight it and try to kill it or you can give in to it and learn to love it. If you are decided on a cool season grass lawn I'm sure there are people here that can talk you through it. But given our climate here in Tennessee you might want to consider embracing Bermuda.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Damn, @social port beat me to it.


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## tnbrews (Jun 2, 2018)

Thanks @social port. I thought that might be the devil weed itself. I have read a few Bermuda threads, but only as I came across them in the forum. I will do a specific search and then report back.

@TN Hawkeye, honestly I haven't considered Bermuda until you mentioned it. I have always considered a TTTF lawn. This is something I have to quickly get up to speed on.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

It is a complete 180 from how you care for a cool season lawn. The nice thing is that it will self repair. We had a deck built and I put out weed matting under it. There was a little triangle of matting sticking out from the corner. I cut it off about a week ago and it is almost completely filled in with Bermuda runners.


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

> honestly I haven't considered Bermuda until you mentioned it. I have always considered a TTTF lawn. This is something I have to quickly get up to speed on.


There are advantages and disadvantages to both in the transition zone. TTTF does really well in spring and fall. It looks ok during the winter months but does get a little pale in extremely cold weather. Mid summer can be a little iffy too, even with irrigation. It will likely need to be overseeded each fall to keep it thick and healthy.

Bermuda will look great all summer with a little irrigation and fertilizer but you are left with a brown lawn shortly after the first good frost until sometime late April. As TN Hawkeye said, with a little TLC it will repair damaged areas all on it's own so no overseeding.

Early summer is the time to seed bermuda so going that route would give you plenty of time to get your plan together. TTTF needs to be seeded in September so going that way you would need to get started ASAP.

If you decide on reno with TTTF I would nuke it immediately and start watering a day or two after. This will begin germinating any seed that's already there. You'll probably be spraying every two weeks from now until seed down. The cleaner you can get the soil the better off you'll be.


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## tnbrews (Jun 2, 2018)

Hey @social port, I found some good threads on bermuda, especially Treating Bermuda Infestation. I know my yard in small compared to everyone else's but would a group buy for Pylex or generic be worth considering in the future?

Soil test results came in last week.

Also, have inquired about irrigation with my oddly shaped yard.

Sorry, not trying to spam links, just trying to get them in one location since I had mentioned a number of different topics in my original post. Mods, I can edit if necessary.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

tnbrews said:


> Hey @social port, I found some good threads on bermuda, especially Treating Bermuda Infestation. I know my yard in small compared to everyone else's but would a group buy for Pylex or generic be worth considering in the future?
> 
> Soil test results came in last week.
> 
> ...


Glad that you found the thread--that is the one I had in mind. I don't know why I didn't link it to begin with--that's not helpful to anyone. A pylex group buy is a great idea, but you are going to need to get 1-2 people on board, and that could be difficult. The earlier you begin your effort, the better, imo. I would not be a candidate here. Pylex does really intrigue me because of its range. A few years down the road, I might look into it as my primary herbicide, given its ability to handle all kinds of other pests, such as dallisgrass (I think). But for now, I have a winning mix for the bermuda.

I'll let you know if that changes :thumbup:

William (alpine) might part with some of his. I don't know.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

William is here https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1039&start=100


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## NikeFace (Feb 14, 2018)

Sorry for the delay... I don't have anything fancy. No inground irrigation. Just hoses relatively hidden in mulch that run to five rotating spike sprinklers. With a timer.

I really want an inground system but other big updating projects around the house are more important now. Honestly, my system is far from perfect but it worked all throughout the brutal Boston spring and summer.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

FWIW, if that was my own yard I'd nuke it with gly and start over. There are so many weeds and undesirable grasses that they would just get in the way of seeding and need to be killed anyway.

If you do decide on bermuda, I'd still nuke whatever bermuda is there as it may not match whatever bermuda you decide on.

Spay the gly, keep irrigating, and keep spraying anything green that emerges right up to seeding.


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## tnbrews (Jun 2, 2018)

NikeFace said:


> Sorry for the delay... I don't have anything fancy. No inground irrigation. Just hoses relatively hidden in mulch that run to five rotating spike sprinklers. With a timer.
> 
> I really want an inground system but other big updating projects around the house are more important now. Honestly, my system is far from perfect but it worked all throughout the brutal Boston spring and summer.


Hey no worries. I am in the same situation with other big house projects underway as well. My wife asked if we really needed a nice lawn. She trusts me when I say "yes", but I could tell she really didn't know why I cared so much "since it wouldn't increase the resale value of the house." But she is supportive nonetheless, even if she may question my sanity sometimes.

Do you leave the sprinklers in place or disconnect and then reconnect when you intend to water?


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## tnbrews (Jun 2, 2018)

Delmarva Keith said:


> Spay the gly, keep irrigating, and keep spraying anything green that emerges right up to seeding.


This is exactly what is happening! :thumbup: Have to admit, I am getting a bit excited for this little challenge. I know 2k is not of lot of yard but it will still keep me busy.


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## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

tnbrews said:


> Delmarva Keith said:
> 
> 
> > Spay the gly, keep irrigating, and keep spraying anything green that emerges right up to seeding.
> ...


I'm glad you're nuking. Dead Bermuda (shudder typing it...) is just the way i like it! I saw the pictures you posted and the hair on my neck stood up and my mind screamed "NUKE!!!!!"


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## tnbrews (Jun 2, 2018)

LawnNerd said:


> tnbrews said:
> 
> 
> > Delmarva Keith said:
> ...


Haha :lol: that is so good. There will be a mini celebration once it all starts to wither.


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## tnbrews (Jun 2, 2018)

social port said:


> Glad that you found the thread--that is the one I had in mind. I don't know why I didn't link it to begin with--that's not helpful to anyone. A pylex group buy is a great idea, but you are going to need to get 1-2 people on board, and that could be difficult. The earlier you begin your effort, the better, imo. I would not be a candidate here. Pylex does really intrigue me because of its range. A few years down the road, I might look into it as my primary herbicide, given its ability to handle all kinds of other pests, such as dallisgrass (I think). But for now, I have a winning mix for the bermuda.
> 
> I'll let you know if that changes :thumbup:
> 
> William (alpine) might part with some of his. I don't know.


What mix do you use right now for the Bermuda? I came across a few different variants in the thread, but what have you found to be the most successful.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

There are a lot of different potions that people put together. I've never compared the efficacy of the different solutions, so I can't really say if one is better than the other. 
But I can say this.
If pylex was a real option, that is the route I would take. From what I understand, it does work. And I'd get to keep my fescue in the process. That's a win-win.

I've tried fluazifop (via Ornamec) and glyphosate. Multiple applications of both. Reasonably effective, but you lose your good turf, especially with glyph. And the Bermuda can come back the following season.

I like what I am using now because of the level of expertise and knowledge of the individuals who helped me work it out. I've had excellent results thus far, but I'm only a month or two into treatment. The real question will be: what happens next season? Will the Bermuda come back? For areas that I hit three times with what I'm using now (I call it soul stealer CCO), I am feeling good about no return. A warm season member seems to have gotten a complete kill earlier this year with a similar, but possibly less effective, formulation ( I don't think that he added ammonium sulfate).

I use ammonium sulfate, triclopyr, fluazifop, glyphosate, and an NIS. I will get you mix rates if you are interested.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

social port said:


> For areas that I hit three times with what I'm using now (I call it soul stealer CCO), I am feeling good about no return.
> 
> I use ammonium sulfate, triclopyr, fluazifop, glyphosate, and an NIS. I will get you mix rates if you are interested.


If this winter is cold (or even if it's not), I will make a large wager on no return. :nod: :thumbup:


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## tnbrews (Jun 2, 2018)

Delmarva Keith said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> > For areas that I hit three times with what I'm using now (I call it soul stealer CCO), I am feeling good about no return.
> ...


I would certainly be interested if you are willing to share. It's one of those where I hope I never have to use it, but have it in the toolkit if needed.

How much damage to the good turf do you have with AS/glypho? I would imagine near a full kill?


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

I'm having good luck with a Fusilade II/Triclopyr/NIS mix. Tip: Don't read the labels, just go super heavy. It's a much slower kill than glypho and so far in my test area nothing is coming back. This will take out the good turf as well. Keep in mind, a Triclopyr app can't be seeded for 3 weeks so watch your timing on that.


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## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

tnbrews said:


> How much damage to the good turf do you have with AS/glypho? I would imagine near a full kill?


Total Kill of Fescue.  BUT, you can reseed the Fescue 24 hours after Glyphosate goes down. A month later, you're mowing the new grass.

I get why people want to use Pylex, but the price point just makes this product unrealistic. Lets say there is a 1,000 sqft area of bermuda invaded Fescue. 
1) Glyphosate - $30. Upfront cost, but will treat more.
2) 10lbs of seed - At Hogan seed (good, strong, clean seed)$2.10 per lbs - We'll say $30 + shipping. (50# bag is $150 after shipping and will cover 5k)
_____
$60 dollars and you have a great stand of turf and that devil MIGHT come back..

Now lets say you use Pylex
1) Pylex is $400-$500 for 8 Ounces.
After you kill out the Bermuda, you'll need to overseed to repair and thicken up the turf where the bermuda choked it out. 
so... 2) 10lbs of seed at $30 bucks... I know you'll only use 4-6 lbs in the overseed, but i don't know if you can buy less than 10lbs..
______
So we're at $430 - $530 and you have the same result... but the [email protected] will come back, as it takes a year or two (maybe even 3) with Pylex.

Now i know some might say "you can't factor in the cost of overseed since that happens every year, regardless of any demons lurking in your lawn" Well, i don't overseed every year.

This is just my thinking. This is not my attempt to persuade you one way or another. Just expressing my train of though in text.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Delmarva Keith said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> > For areas that I hit three times with what I'm using now (I call it soul stealer CCO), I am feeling good about no return.
> ...


I love that wager


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

tnbrews said:


> Delmarva Keith said:
> 
> 
> > social port said:
> ...


Soul Stealer CCO. Add ingredients in this exact order

Fill your tank 70 percent full with water 
Mix 3 ounces (powder) of Ammonium Sulfate per gallon of water
Add Ornamec at highest label rate (Fusilade II would be a better option if you have some)
Add Weed B Gone CCO at highest label rate (another triclopyr solution is fine as an alternative)
Add water to fill the tank to desired number of gallons
Add glyphosate (Note: Your glyphosate solution must NOT contain Diquat. Check AI label.)
Add a non-ionic surfactant
Add marking dye (optional)
Mix

Take out some bermuda.

Also, as LawnNerd says, this mix will absolutely kill your good turf. You shouldn't use this mix unless you are OK with irreparable damage/certain death of fescue.

And to add to ForsheeMS's caution about the seeding interval, fluazifop also has a waiting period. I believe Ornamec is 30 days.
Edit: Actually, just checked the label. Reseed interval for Ornamec is 14 days. Even better. I always recommend double-checking the label for the substance you are applying.


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## NikeFace (Feb 14, 2018)

I leave everything in place. Last year I left my hoses, not sprinklers, out the whole winter. I don't plan on doing that again, but everything survived and works like brand new...


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## tnbrews (Jun 2, 2018)

social port said:


> tnbrews said:
> 
> 
> > Delmarva Keith said:
> ...


Thanks for this :thumbup: I picked up some Fusilade II and sprayed the Soul Stealer CCO over the weekend. A couple neighbors came over asking what I was doing and why I had so many jugs of herbicides. They thought I was crazy to voluntarily kill my "grass." There was a decent kill response after 48hrs, but there was a huge difference from when I left for work yesterday morning and then by the time I got home. 

I am still aiming for soil and seed down on Labor Day weekend, but not going to rush the process if I need to push it a week.


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## tnbrews (Jun 2, 2018)

NikeFace said:


> I leave everything in place. Last year I left my hoses, not sprinklers, out the whole winter. I don't plan on doing that again, but everything survived and works like brand new...


Good to know. I still have a little time to figure out the hose layout. May try to figure out a QD set up so I don't have to leave the sprinklers out everyday after the new turf has been established, and just leave the hoses.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

tnbrews said:


> Thanks for this


You are welcome. I am just passing on some of the great things I've learned by being a member at the forum.


tnbrews said:


> There was a decent kill response after 48hrs, but there was a huge difference from when I left for work yesterday morning and then by the time I got home.


It's been dry. You may want to water your kill areas some.


tnbrews said:


> I am still aiming for soil and seed down on Labor Day weekend, but not going to rush the process if I need to push it a week.


All of this sounds good. The trick will be getting the bermuda to recover (if it does)in time for a second app while not having that second app push your seed down date back too far. It sounds like you are right on top of this.


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## tnbrews (Jun 2, 2018)

social port said:


> For areas that I hit three times with what I'm using now (I call it soul stealer CCO), I am feeling good about no return.
> 
> I use ammonium sulfate, triclopyr, fluazifop, glyphosate, and an NIS. I will get you mix rates if you are interested.


So the first app of Soul Stealer CCO went down two weeks ago tomorrow. Everything appears dead except the bermuda. When I pull the dead portion of Bermuda out of the ground there is a couple inches of green that would be right at the surface or below ground. I'll snap a pic if that doesn't make sense.

Fusilade says to wait 30 days between apps. So should I wait for a second app or put it down now? Should I scalp and/or prep the surface with a dethatch and then put the second app down? I don't see seed down next week as feasible at this point. So instead of rushing the process, I will make sure it is done properly. Or I can proceed with soil and seed and then use the fusilade next year on any remaining Bermuda.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

When I read "contractor's mix."


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

In TN, you still have time for seed.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

tnbrews said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> > For areas that I hit three times with what I'm using now (I call it soul stealer CCO), I am feeling good about no return.
> ...


There are lots of possibilities there, and it is hard to know which route is the best one. A lot of what we are doing to control (no, kill !) Bermuda is kind of experimental, in the sense that many of us are looking for the best option for our particular situation. 
All of this is to say that this is what I would do, though there might be better strategies.

First of all, that Bermuda should be comatose. I can't believe it is still going. That's bermuda for you. 
You are using the Ornamec for a complete kill of Bermuda, while not being concerned about your fescue. In that light, I would disregard the 30 day interval and apply soul stealer CCO to everything that is green. Strike every single molecule of green in that Bermuda.

I would not dethatch now. I would mow as low as possible and bag clippings. Save the dethatching until the very last. 
Mowing low may encourage the Bermuda to grow more vigorously. Opening up some of the tissue also may allow the Bermuda to absorb the herbicide more readily.

Continue to use the full mix of soul stealer CCO as needed until you are at the edge of your seeding interval. Then, pull back, relying on AS, gly, and NIS. Note that If you have some WBG CCO, you can add that to help until seed date is about one week out (but double check with label!). I would continue to hit with AS, gly, and NIS until a day or two before seeding.

As far as when to seed? I'm targeting around 9/7-9/18, or thereabout. I went 9/22 last year and wish I had seeded earlier. I've known people to seed as last as mid October and have decent results. I would simplify your decision in this way: would you rather have a full-ish lawn for the next year but risk having to kill some of it to get Bermuda that may return, or would you tolerate a not-so-full lawn for a year with better insurance that the Bermuda is gone?

You can certainly use fluazifop next year if your Bermuda returns, and it is safe for fescue (per the ORNAMEC label). My experience says that it is easy to damage fescue with fluazifop and no guarantees are offered in getting a Bermuda kill. Perhaps others have been more successful on this front. Personally, I like to be as aggressive as possible with a plant as aggressive as Bermuda.


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## tnbrews (Jun 2, 2018)

Sinclair said:


> When I read "contractor's mix."


The truth! My neighbors already think I'm crazy. This would just add to it!



g-man said:


> In TN, you still have time for seed.


Thanks, @g-man. I will only be a week or so behind schedule.



social port said:


> tnbrews said:
> 
> 
> > social port said:
> ...


I am willing to have a not-so-full lawn for a year with better assurance that the Bermuda is gone.

I scalped yesterday. One neighbor text me that the yard was dead, no need to decapitate it too.  I didn't spray SS CCO since the neighbors next door were having a birthday party for their kid. Decided the aroma of the fusilade II not might be pleasant for their guests (or kids if they were running into my yard). So it's going down this morning.

I plan seed down within that same time frame, 9/8 - 9/15. I didn't want to go later, but good to know your observation from last year.

After I scalped, for a split second I thought, "well a Bermuda yard might not be so bad after all." The concept of a short lawn is appealing but I can't wait to get this fescue down and germinating. :thumbup:


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

1. No, I can't imagine that overtones of Fusilade would have been added to their enjoyment. Ornamec reminds me of some kind of fuel. I used to dread the odor. Now, I kind of enjoy it. 'Ah, I love the fresh smell of Ornamec in the morning.'

2. Good luck today. Be liberal in coverage. Hit it hard :thumbup:


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

You're not winning the lawn game until your neighbours question your sanity.


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