# Mother nature has won - bermuda



## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

So, we moved into our home almost 3 years ago near Winston-Salem, NC (60 minutes north of Charlotte). I killed the lawn the first summer and planted Kentucky Bluegrass. The KBG grew well and survived last summer w/o irrigation or any overseeding. It bounced back last fall, but I noticed a little common bermuda that went dormant last winter.

Spring 2019 the KBG looked excellent, but this summer has taken its toll. I have been traveling/working and have not irrigated (I didn't have to last year). The area is full sun and we had long periods of drought and 90+ degree weather.

Bermuda has really taken hold and at this point I think even attempting to kill it is futile. Mother nature has won.

My plan is to overseed w/ perennial rye (PRG) this fall and make a bermuda plan for next summer. I'll likely keep the PRG as low as the rotary will go, or even try using my manual reel. The PRG will mostly be toast by mid-June and by that time the common bermuda grass will be off to the races. I understanding seeding PRG will slow this process down and it would be ideal to spray it out. I have young children and am trying to be as conservative with chemicals. The children and my active border collie love the backyard.

My question is, when I seed PRG in 1-3 weeks (depending on rain and temps), do you think it's worth seeding a small amount of bermuda? Technically the temps would be good for bermuda germination and I'd likely have a solid 6-8 weeks before frost damage. Even a 10-20% success with the bermuda would give me a leg up for next year.

I'm torn on the bermuda type. I would love a hybrid, but I feel confident the current common bermuda will fully take over in 1-3 years if I push it with fertilizer and a low cut. I am considering seeding an improved type, such as Arden (old Princess 77). But with uniformity in mind common bermuda grass isn't out of the question. Do yard enthusiasts ever seed common bermuda?? I know it can make a great monostand, but the thought of seeding it gives me pause.

I'm not past stolonizing or even plugging the yard late next spring. I've slowly been pulling "weed" bermuda out of my front KBG stand (part shade and looks great) to plant in the back. These stolons seem to take hold in about 7-10 days with occasional watering.

Any input or advice?

I love bermuda grass, the only downside is it being dormant in the winter. I don't think once it's established that I will overseed with rye in the winter.

Thanks.

Here is a pic taken 6/13 followed by today (8/17) of my backyard.... wow...


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## TNTurf (Mar 20, 2019)

The difference is amazing. I dont know what to tell you but if you want to go with Bermuda, its possible to make it look like the first photo.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

TNTurf said:


> The difference is amazing. I dont know what to tell you but if you want to go with Bermuda, its possible to make it look like the first photo.


Thanks. I had celebration Bermuda in a previous life, part-shade situation and it failed, but it was beautiful for the first summer. This is full sun, slight shade at the edges, I think I can make Bermuda work this time around.

A blue-muda lawn is also possible. Most people in the area has fescue-bermuda lawns anyway. But the inconsistency in texture and color really annoys me. Which makes me wonder if I'd have the same complaints with Arden/Common mix..


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## TalonII (Jul 23, 2019)

probasestealer said:


> TNTurf said:
> 
> 
> > The difference is amazing. I dont know what to tell you but if you want to go with Bermuda, its possible to make it look like the first photo.
> ...


I'm sure my situation in S. Louisiana is a little different than yours but I currently have a common/princess 77 turf war going on. While the common is a little quicker to spread, it's much thinner than the p77 and I don't see how the p77 won't take over. It may take a few years and need a little bit of help but it will def get there. If I was absolutely committed I think I could make it fully happen next summer but doubt I will have the time for it.

I'll just settle for the occasional Celsius app and over seeding. It will get there eventually.


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## smarchandiv (Aug 22, 2018)

Honestly I'd give that common Bermuda that's there now a chance. I have 20k sq feet of native common Bermuda and 14K of Tifway in different areas. I love them both.

Here's the beauty of common Bermuda - zero Maintenance. 3 weeks with no rain- no problem. No issues with chinch bugs, fungus etc. I hit it with herbicide a few times a year, fertilize some and mow it low,

Once you get it less than 2 inches it gets very very thick. I've heard people say common Bermuda does not do well cut low. At 1 inch mine is doing great.

If you let it grow for a week it produces T shaped seed heads on its own that I assume will help populate the surrounding areas.

The only down side to Common is the runners, but that's what weed eaters are for.

I use quinchlorac for the crabgrass and Katana for nutsedge, which is similar to Monument or Certainly but quicker acting ..

Good luck


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Yeah, my common does better low cut than my seeded Maya.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Man cool season grasses look so beautiful


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## smarchandiv (Aug 22, 2018)

If you are going to let the common Bermuda take over, keep the weeds out as best you can. When spring comes it seems common Bermuda is a late bloomer. Kill the spring clover ASAP. The good news is that C Bermuda is immune to just about all selective herbicides out there so can withstand any weed treatment needed. To my knowledge Round up is the only thing (off the shelf) that kills it and even with that you need 3 treatments.


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## Bbq freakshow (Mar 9, 2019)

Kill it all now and seed rye grass for winter. Then in spring quick easy kill and put down monaco bermuda seed since your in transition zone. Bermuda grows best at temps 80 and above.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

Thanks for all the replies. I'll try to keep this updated. 
@smarchandiv @ktgrok thanks for the confidence in common bermuda


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

A quick update, the power of bermuda is remarkable.

I aerated 3 weeks ago and dropped 1.5x rate of Milorganite and 1 week ago dropped urea. I've been watering and am quite impressed with the spread. The first picture is 24 days prior to the second. The next pictures is 17 days days after planting small sprigs (helmet for size reference).

I've decide to seed perennial rye this fall, cut low and push the common bermuda next summer


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

A lot of improvement over a short time


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## smarchandiv (Aug 22, 2018)

Looks great. You are on the right path.


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## Avalawn T (Sep 11, 2018)

That's the way I went with my common Bermuda back lawn. I was going to do bluemuda but I like the way it looks and next year should fill all the way in. It did help by far to break up the pre-e. I mowed every other day at 1 inch and put 10-10-10 down at the beginning of each month. Once it took off I sprayed 20-0-0 on the runner's once a week.That's 2 months apart.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

Avalawn T said:


> That's the way I went with my common Bermuda back lawn. I was going to do bluemuda but I like the way it looks and next year should fill all the way in. It did help by far to break up the pre-e. I mowed every other day at 1 inch and put 10-10-10 down at the beginning of each month. Once it took off I sprayed 20-0-0 on the runner's once a week.That's 2 months apart.


This looks great. I can't believe the difference.

I'll drop annual rye this fall (in my experience annual will not tolerate the heat like PRG) and next April/May drop my height of cut. I'll drop Pre-emergent in March (1/2 rate Dimension or Halts) and begin a heavy fertilization program in May/June depending on the bermuda green up. I may aerate again, but a low dose Dimension or Halts app will be gone by late May and will have prevented much of the crabgrass.


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## Avalawn T (Sep 11, 2018)

Sounds like a good plan but I think I read on here annual rye is not a good choice over prg. I cant remember why but maybe someone with experience will reply. I know you can smoke the perennial in the spring with MSM I believe. Thanks it was some work for sure and has a ways to go.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Avalawn T said:


> Sounds like a good plan but I think I read on here annual rye is not a good choice over prg. I cant remember why but maybe someone with experience will reply. I know you can smoke the perennial in the spring with MSM I believe. Thanks it was some work for sure and has a ways to go.


Checkouts @Cory lawn journal about annual rye. From his experience it grows ridiculously fast and is a mess to cut (wet clumps).

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3860&start=100


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

I was very happy with Yukon bermuda when I ran it. Nice color, nice texture, seemed to stay green longer and green up earlier. I had used several varieties of bermuda and Yukon was far and away my favorite.

As to annual rye, I made that mistake. Wet clumps doesn't begin to describe it. It's like trying to mow compost. For real. You cut the grass and then rake up all this crap, and turn the mower upside down to unclog it, etc. Def go perennial IMO.


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## Cory (Aug 23, 2017)

TN Hawkeye said:


> Avalawn T said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a good plan but I think I read on here annual rye is not a good choice over prg. I cant remember why but maybe someone with experience will reply. I know you can smoke the perennial in the spring with MSM I believe. Thanks it was some work for sure and has a ways to go.
> ...


I was warned here by several not to use Annual Rye, I wish I would have listened and saved my money. Looks ok from a distance but it's ugly up close. I had to pressure wash my driveway every time I mowed it because it's so wet it clumps and the juice stains everything. You have to rotary mow it, can't reel mow it because the front roller lays it down and it doesn't stand back up Someone told me before I did it that when you mow it was like putting grass in a blender, he wasn't joking.

It also killed several spots of my Bermuda. I'm not sure if was because it helped keep it from going dormant or because it had to be mowed so tall it caused fungus issues. But I had brown spots every where for a couple months after my Bermuda came out of dormancy. I ended up spraying it out with Celsius when we had a hot spell in January, glad I did because I'm not sure how much Bermuda would have died if I would get kept it.

After last years experience I'm wouldn't even want to bother with perennial rye. I'll just stick with my weed free dormant Bermuda and learn to enjoy it :lol:


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

@Avalawn T @Darth_V8r @TN Hawkeye @Cory

Thanks for the advise on annual rye. I've only used it once in a part-shade environment, it wasn't out of control, but now I'm in a full sun setting. I'll shell out a couple extra dollars for PRG.
I can get PRG for about 3/lb. I'm only planning to overseed about 2,000 sqft.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Sad to read this thread. :-( but I get it.

This might be a ton more work than your current plans. Kill the common Bermuda now (soul stealer), seed the prg and next year you have a blank canvas to start after you kill the prg. Then you can sprig Tahoma 31.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

g-man said:


> Sad to read this thread. :-( but I get it.
> 
> This might be a ton more work than your current plans. Kill the common Bermuda now (soul stealer), seed the prg and next year you have a blank canvas to start after you kill the prg. Then you can sprig Tahoma 31.


Tahoma 31, interesting read. I'd not heard of it.

Bermuda does well in my area (of transition zone). I back up to a golf course, I think they have Tif419 which does well. I'm sure they have common bermuda mixed in also.

Really looking for the path or least resistance. I considered seeding in improved varieties, but not sure it's worth the effort and may be a different color along with texture change. I've got tons of stolons to use to help it spread, just raking the dense areas creates hundreds. Slow green up would be my only concern with the common bermuda. But it's growing gang busters right now, gotta watch my dog...


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Tahoma 31 Is one of the newer Bermuda. It seems to be more tolerant of colder weathers, so it stays green longer. It also looks pretty decent (for a weed).

@osuturfman shared this image of a Tahoma 31 field in Ohio sprigged this year.


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

probasestealer said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > Sad to read this thread. :-( but I get it.
> ...


Talk to the course superintendent. If you back up to a golf course, I'm sure they wouldn't mind dumping as many tifway 419 sprigs as you can handle right in your back yard. Spread them around and water them as frequently as you possibly can and you'll have a 419 lawn with the only costs being water and fertilizer.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

Sunday (9/29) I aerated and overseeded with perennial rye. About 7lb/thousand to start. 
Now I'm looking at a high of 94 tomorrow and 96 Thursday, but smooth sailing after that with highs in the 70s and rain on the way. 
Guess I'll be syringing with the sprinkler every few hours the next few days. 
I went somewhat light on the rate as I figured I'd be seeding a second time due to the incoming heat. 
Poor lighting this morning for a shot, but here is a shot from the center of the lawn.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

So quick update. I planted perennial rye and boy did it look good...



But, it's not going to look this way in another month. With stay at home orders (quarantine) the backyard has become our second living space. That means I don't want to spray and I want the rye gone ASAP. Yesterday I opted to try some solarization, it was 84 degrees and TOASTED the PRG. I plan to move this around to kill more PRG. I did cut the entire lawn to 1" with my rotatory and went back over it with my manual reel. The PRG was 80% unphased by that step alone.



I spread 46-0-0 last week and will likely due this weekly. I'm wondering if anyone thinks it would be beneficial to wet the grass one evening then spread the urea? Thinking this might burn and finish off the PRG?
Any feedback appreciated.

Also, I got some 419 sprigs/runners/clumps and have started another area, this is really an experiment. I had planned on getting some sod, but the quarantine..


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