# My overseeding dilema



## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

I am planning to overseed this fall (September 1) my northern mutt mix of a lawn and I am stuck in paralysis by analysis trying to decide on the seed to get. My current lawn is a complete mix of tall fescue, fine fescue, rye, and kbg. Back in the spring of 2017 I had a lot of perennial beds and bushes removed by a lawn service company and they seeded the areas with a heavy dose of kbg and tall fescue and these areas of the lawn are very dark compared to the rest. I lost a lot of it to fungus leaving the area thin so I overseeded the entire lawn with a custom mix of kbg and tall fescue from Seedsuperstore. I did have some success overseeding but I don't want to continue dropping $100+ on seed from SS just for overseeding when I could do a complete renovation for a little bit more.

A renovation to get my ideal blend of kbg/tttf is not an option at this point since I am still focusing my efforts on reducing weed pressure, improving soil conditions, and fine tuning my irrigation system. Not to mention the wife thinks our lawn looks great so getting her approval to glyphosate the lawn is a topic for another day...

I'm trying to find a decent mix of tttf and kbg to help thicken the thin spots of the lawn. I contacted the lawn company I used to find out what seed they used and they said it was an off the shelf bag of Jonathon Green seed. I should just settle for this but I also came across the following:

http://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass-seed/fescue-grass-seed/combat-extreme-cold-climate-fescue-mix.html

http://www.seedranch.com/Tall-Fescue-Bluegrass-Mix-25-Lbs-p/tall-fescue-bluegrass-mix-25.htm

https://hancockseed.com/hancocks-turf-type-tall-fescue-25-lb-bag-1032.html

https://www.amazon.com/groSMART-Fescue-Blend-Blue-Certified-Pounds/dp/B01JKAJ8Q2

I just hate fine fescue and perennial rye grass and don't want to add that to the lawn. I don't know what to do as far as seed goes.


----------



## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

Hey SpiveyJr-

I'm in a similar boat, trying to nurse an old lawn back to health. I don't have direct experience trying to overseed KBG into an existing lawn, but from what I've read it is a tough thing to do successfully. I have really come to love TTTF. I like the fast germination, and the drought tolerance and it is a beautiful grass. I am looking at hogan seed for my TTTF this year. Best of luck whatever you decide.


----------



## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

I was originally going to go with 10 lbs of Bewitched/Midnight/prosperity/blueberry from SS every fall until the lawn gets to a point I am happy with but from an economic standpoint it's a waste of money. Like you said, trying to seed kbg into existing turf is difficult and given the thin spots my lawn has I'm sure I would have some success there, but my goal is to thicken the lawnand I don't think dropping kbg is reasonable at this point. I do have a 30 year old silver maple that provides mid day shade to the front yard so that too would hamper the kbg growth. Because of that tree I don't think I could ever have kbg only, but I am fine with that because I do like kbg/tttf mix.

I never thought to call hogan seed for pricing and seed suggestions. I think 25 lbs of seed would be enough to overseed my entire 6.5k sqft yard.


----------



## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

There is a siteone 15 minutes away from me. I should probably go there and see what they have for seed. Maybe I can get some fertilizer and pre-m while I'm there...


----------



## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

SpiveyJr said:


> I was originally going to go with 10 lbs of Bewitched/Midnight/prosperity/blueberry from SS every fall until the lawn gets to a point I am happy with but from an economic standpoint it's a waste of money.


I agree. At that point, might as well do a renovation.


----------



## NoslracNevok (Jun 12, 2018)

SpiveyJr said:


> There is a siteone 15 minutes away from me. I should probably go there and see what they have for seed. Maybe I can get some fertilizer and pre-m while I'm there...


I just heard of this siteone recently, I've been looking forward to checking it out, now even more if they have some of my fav seed.


----------



## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

SpiveyJr said:


> I was originally going to go with 10 lbs of Bewitched/Midnight/prosperity/blueberry from SS every fall until the lawn gets to a point I am happy with but from an economic standpoint it's a waste of money. Like you said, trying to seed kbg into existing turf is difficult and given the thin spots my lawn has I'm sure I would have some success there, but my goal is to thicken the lawnand I don't think dropping kbg is reasonable at this point. I do have a 30 year old silver maple that provides mid day shade to the front yard so that too would hamper the kbg growth. Because of that tree I don't think I could ever have kbg only, but I am fine with that because I do like kbg/tttf mix.
> 
> I never thought to call hogan seed for pricing and seed suggestions. I think 25 lbs of seed would be enough to overseed my entire 6.5k sqft yard.


can you guys please educate me on why mix in *** at all with TTF? whats the advantage? why not all tttf?


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Bkell101 said:


> can you guys please educate me on why mix in *** at all with TTF? whats the advantage? why not all tttf?


KBG has a few very significant advantages over TTTF. 
- First and foremost KBG spreads via rhizomes whereas fescue does not spread at all, so bluegrass is able to fill in and repair damaged spots. 
- It has a finer blade.
- It is significantly more cold hardy - sustained periods of freezing weather will turn fescue brown.
- It is not susceptible to brown patch, though it's susceptible to other fungal diseases.
- Can tolerate very low heights of cut with a reel mower. With fescue, it's hard to go below 2".

KBG has a few disadvantages as well:
- Hard to establish. Seed takes a long time to germinate, and then pauses for a few weeks after it does germinate. We call it the pout stage. Fescue germinates quickly and establishes fast.
- Somewhat less drought tolerant than fescue.
- Lighter in color than the elite fescue cultivars.

Mixing KBG with fescue allows them to compensate for each others weaknesses.


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> - Lighter in color than the elite fescue cultivars.


Do you have Speedway in mind here?


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

SpiveyJr said:


> I never thought to call hogan seed for pricing and seed suggestions.


I seem to remember reading that Hogan even has a KBG and TTTF mix. But if not, you can always ask for a custom blend. Outside of getting your choice of top cultivars, you are also getting a bag free from weed seeds and 'other crop.'


----------



## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

social port said:


> I seem to remember reading that Hogan even has a KBG and TTTF mix. But if not, you can always ask for a custom blend. Outside of getting your choice of top cultivars, you are also getting a bag free from weed seeds and 'other crop.'


Do they pack 25 lb bags? I can't imagine I need 50 lbs. Also, what is the average price of Hogan seed shipped?


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

SpiveyJr said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> > I seem to remember reading that Hogan even has a KBG and TTTF mix. But if not, you can always ask for a custom blend. Outside of getting your choice of top cultivars, you are also getting a bag free from weed seeds and 'other crop.'
> ...


Certainly they do for custom blends. I would imagine that their Hogan blends are also available in 25 lb bags, but I don't know for sure.
For a 50 lb bag shipped less than 200 miles, cost was around $30. I don't know how that compares with other distributors, or how distance impacts shipping costs.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

social port said:


> j4c11 said:
> 
> 
> > - Lighter in color than the elite fescue cultivars.
> ...


Rhambler comes to mind first but Speedway, Traverse 2 and Falcon IV as well.


----------



## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

social port said:


> SpiveyJr said:
> 
> 
> > social port said:
> ...


I'm going to assume $30 for shipping and not for shipping and seed? What can one expect for seed cost?


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

SpiveyJr said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> > SpiveyJr said:
> ...


About $150 for 50 lbs of seed and delivery. That is for top TTTF cultivars delivered at a location less than 200 miles from Hogan's. I don't know how much price varies each year.


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

social port said:


> j4c11 said:
> 
> 
> > - Lighter in color than the elite fescue cultivars.
> ...


I never realized that tttf was a darker green that kbg....I always thought kbg was the darkest of the cool grasses.


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@JDgreen18 I don't think you are alone there.


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Also, I think that KBG is sometimes preferred because of the blades and its ability to spread.

I've been a little obsessed with KBG for about a year, and I'm not sure why. TTTF holds its own pretty well. Check out @Budstl 's thread. His pictures offer a nice comparison between the two as grown in Missouri. 
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=195&start=80


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

social port said:


> Also, I think that KBG is sometimes preferred because of the blades and its ability to spread.
> 
> I've been a little obsessed with KBG for about a year, and I'm not sure why. TTTF holds its own pretty well. Check out @Budstl 's thread. His pictures offer a nice comparison between the two as grown in Missouri.
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=195&start=80


I really like the look of both to be honest. I just thought kbg was the king of the cool grasses in regards to color....hence the popularity


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Reading your post and scanning the replies, here's my opinion...

I'd seed a similar mix as to what you've been using...as similar as you can get. If you're still not sure, I'd look at the NTEP and see how the different cultivars in the mixes you listed rank for your area, and go with what seems the best compromise. You can't go wrong seeding a TTTF blend, or a mix of TTTF and KBG, into a mostly TTTF/KBG lawn.


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

JDgreen18 said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> > j4c11 said:
> ...


My TTTF is noticeably darker green than the America KBG it's mixed with. The Bewitched in the mix is about the same shade as the Fescue, but more blue, but that's after a few years. Originally, someone who helped me advised using lighter green KBG to mix with TTTF. I guess TTTF used to be lighter green in the past.


----------



## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

I can recommend United Seeds and their Super Turf II fescue / KBG mix should be good for overseeding what you've got. The seed itself is from top rated seed growers, good performing cultivars and it's all blue tag certified. You can't pick the exact cultivars but it sounds like that's not what you're after anyway.

http://www.unitedseeds.com/superturf2.html

Going rate for good fescue blend seed seems to be around $120 per 50 lb. (?). That's what I'm used to paying anyway.


----------



## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

Delmarva Keith said:


> I can recommend United Seeds and their Super Turf II fescue / KBG mix should be good for overseeding what you've got. The seed itself is from top rated seed growers, good performing cultivars and it's all blue tag certified. You can't pick the exact cultivars but it sounds like that's not what you're after anyway.
> 
> http://www.unitedseeds.com/superturf2.html
> 
> Going rate for good fescue blend seed seems to be around $120 per 50 lb. (?). That's what I'm used to paying anyway.


I like their selections and their prices are competitive too. The Super Turf II seems like a perfect mix for my situation. Thanks!


----------

