# I admit. I HATE my lawn



## Belgianbillie (Apr 3, 2018)

I am the lawn guy in my group of friends. Lawn Wizard. Know everything.

I hate my lawn.

It is 1 acre of clay. Moist and muddy when it rains, rock hard when it is dry., Half of it is shadow, half of it is pure sun. City shut down the well.

Mowing? Sure, but my mower wont mow higher than 2.5 inches even if it is set to 4.

Want to aerate? Sorry bro, soil is to dry. Oh soil is moist, sure, aerate. Oh now you drove over a core you pulled and you squashed the clay into the ground and now the grass under it is drying. F*ck.

Mowing is needed? Accidentally drive over all the wormdiggings? haha, sorry you just squashed clay onto your grass. Bye grass.

Under the densest trees its only grass that pulls up by touching it. Probably POA triv.

under the semi shaded area, its 50% triv. Tenacity, no impact what so ever.

Can't redo the yard, its 36000 sq ft. I've tried redoing areas, but the poa just comes back the next year.

Turn your mower? haha, rut in the grass like you slipped clay everywhere.

Maybe add compost to the yard? Guess not bro, that would be over 100 cu yards. Right, you have a bad back so you cant shovel compost anyways.

Maybe mulch and milorganite? Does little to nothing. Yea, makes the poa triv grow fast. Mulching? Ok, now you have a lot of thatch.

Almost nothing i can do to this yard is cost effective. It is 36000 feet in a suburban area. NEighbours mow but dont care. Their spirits were probably broken 10 years ago.

I want to love my lawn. I do oftne in spring when things are looking up. But it just hates me. It is abusive.

Halp.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

I hear ya. Sometimes I look out at my lawn and it disgusts me. But we're all super hard on ourselves. Folks come to my grass and think it's nice because there really aren't any broadleaf weeds anymore. But all I see is poa a and t and other weed grasses all varying colors.

I also feel you on the large size of a yard. Some here do it but I just don't have a massive renovation in me....financially or mentally  I did a partial one last year that was mostly successful but had to put off this year's for other reasons. But, I'll get to it. My grass looks better than anyone else's around me.

I'm just glad I don't live next to another member here or I would get lawn shamed :lol:

You just do what you can do now. Keep the obvious weeds down. Feed it. And get down that pre m if you aren't doing any seed work. My lawn will be a non stop process that sometimes angers me but mostly I just like being outside working on it.

See my signature below :thumbsup:

Don't give up.


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## Belgianbillie (Apr 3, 2018)

Thing is, my grass looks ok. But just ok. This year i wont be able to overseed bc i want to put down pre-emergent to stop poa a from coming back next year. Perhaps ill do a dormant overseed.

I am frustrated with the soil and the shade. I had my trees trimmed but its not enough. Aeration doesnt work bc it destroys my yard. The cores remain visible for 1-2 months and when i mow the mower squashes the clay core into the grass killing it.

I just dont know. I need to turn the mower somewhere to turn around, but all the spots (near my house and near the end of the yard) now show ruts from turning the mower.


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## Belgianbillie (Apr 3, 2018)

Furthermore, the simplicity i have, granted its an old one, pushes the grass into the ground with its rollers. Worse, all simplicities have a spot on the right size where you adjust the deck height but the rollers dont extend far enough, so that piece doesnt have rollers and when you drive over the grass it kind of pulls its back straight and ups the thatch a bit so if your grass is a bit to long, you either leave an unmowed stripe or an area where mulched grass is pulled up.

Granted, i mulch with regular high lift blades, not mulching blades. Why? Well, because the gator blades on the simplicity give a horrible cut even when sharpened. Super uneven. :'(

I am feeling sorry for myself here. I get it. But with my back giving out and the weight i;ve gained from getting chemo, i feel like nature is winning. Maybe i shoudl just do the minimum and not expect more.

Or maybe i should cut down the 100 year old trees in my yard and expose it to full sunlight. Maybe i should lure my neighbour into doing that so i can post some tree justice on reddit.com/r/legaladvice. They love tree justice there.


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## Belgianbillie (Apr 3, 2018)

Furthermore... i dont even know if i like working on it. I worked on it for 5 years now. When i moved in the bank just cut it low and seeded annual rye over it. Next year it was all weeds. the neighbors showed me a pic of the previous owners and the yard stood tall at 1-2 feet of weeds. Fuck. Then one year i did pre-emergent and kept broad weeds under control Looked amazing i thought.... then the overseed failed and poa triv popped up. Looked good in spring i thought... in summer my lawn looked like shit. Now we are at the point where poa triv survives year long. :'(


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## bellts02 (Apr 16, 2018)

Here are some ideas i think you could use to simplify your situation that will get u a good result and will reduce some stress:

1) start over with ur lawn and address each problem one at a time. 
2) pick a section to renovate this fall of about 5000 sq ft in an area that you see all the time (smaller area = less water/seed/effort)
3) pick a shade tolerant cultivar or mix of grass seeds
4) focus on reno this fall and kill poa and weeds later with tenacity (spring and fall 2019)
5) dont aerate this fall as it seems to add to some of your problems. I suspect the lawn will be fine if you skip a year.
6) repeat this process section by section, year by year until youve tackled the entire yard

I think all of the problems are stacking up to make this seem insurmountable. So the solution im oferring above is more managable and youll be reallly happy when you see that new grass next year. I did this last year and everything turned out really nicely. Btw, I also have a shady yard. Hit me up if u have questions. I can step u thru it. Heres my yard one year after reno.


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## Belgianbillie (Apr 3, 2018)

bellts02 said:


> Here are some ideas i think you could use to simplify your situation that will get u a good result and will reduce some stress:
> 
> 1) start over with ur lawn and address each problem one at a time.
> 2) pick a section to renovate this fall of about 5000 sq ft in an area that you see all the time (smaller area = less water/seed/effort)
> ...


Ok. So i cant start over with a 36000 sq feet lawn. It is to big to start over. Plus it connects to my neighbours lawn on both sides who do not take care of it so they invade.

I tried partial renovations doing 1/4th at the time, but the poa triv just invades it again. Its clay soil. I cant augment it with compost because i just cant shovel it right now with my back. Even if i could shovel it in, 1/5th of the yard at 1/2 inch would still take 8 cu yards of compost which is 50 200 feet trips with a wheel barrow.

I tried killing the poa and poa triv with tenacity. Did 2* 4oz and then 2*2 oz in spring and it didnt get rid of it. Still there, even in the height of summer. I can try again in fall, but i am thinking that i can do only 1 4oz application due to the max of 16 oz a year.

I overseeded with fescue and rye two years in a row already with little impact. I am thinking most of the brown stalks i see now are due to the rye that did take root.

That is why i am feeling so overwhelmed. I tried these things before and they just kick my ***.

optimally, i would indeed roundup one half one year and the other half the other and bring in compost and do it 100% correct. Take out several trees to open up light. However, thats too costly and i cant do it myself.

I hate to sound so defeatist. Really. But thats why i made this post. I think its time to come to terms that this just is a losing battle.


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## Belgianbillie (Apr 3, 2018)

Also, that shady yard of your has 1 tree so i am sure it gets enough sun. I have an area covered by 5 massive trees that were trimmed. Thats not even the bad spot. I have a big walnut next to a massive maple and two pines. Thinking of having them trimmed next month to let more light in and take out the two pines. Maybe thats worth the 2-3k :S.


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## Belgianbillie (Apr 3, 2018)

Man i hate to sound so negative. I appreciate your advice of course. Really. I've read a ton of posts and watched many videos and have put into effect what could be done. It just doesnt seem to work or be enough.


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## bellts02 (Apr 16, 2018)

Ok you could go nuclear this year. Glypho in fall and again in spring and through the summer, then seed in fall 2019. I gotta think that would kill the poa and guve ur new seed a chance. You may have to use that creeping red fescue with so much shade.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Where is your soil test? And pictures?


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## bellts02 (Apr 16, 2018)

I would have the pines removed just on principle - the devils tree.


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## Belgianbillie (Apr 3, 2018)

bellts02 said:


> Ok you could go nuclear this year. Glypho in fall and again in spring and through the summer, then seed in fall 2019. I gotta think that would kill the poa and guve ur new seed a chance. You may have to use that creeping red fescue with so much shade.


My wife wont let me ruin the green in our lawn for a full fall, spring and then fall again. No go.


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## bellts02 (Apr 16, 2018)

Use the nuclear option on an out of view section. Plant in that section. Then next fall use a sod cutter to transplant the new grass to the visible sections of your yard. Then repeat until you cover the whole yard.


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## Belgianbillie (Apr 3, 2018)

bellts02 said:


> Use the nuclear option on an out of view section. Plant in that section. Then next fall use a sod cutter to transplant the new grass to the visible sections of your yard. Then repeat until you cover the whole yard.


I do have a plugger. I could pull plugs from the back. I think there is KBG there, but that wouldnt grow in the shade.

I think the first step is to have those trees trimmed/removed to open up that area for light.. otherwise ill be struggling forever.

Then again, having tree trimmers and tree removes come in will rip up the lawn for ya...


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## kevreh (Apr 3, 2018)

Belgianbillie-

Have you watched Pete from gci turf's videos? He's in North Carolina, clay headquarters. He"s heavy into organic, mowing long, and things like humics, kelp, yuca, etc. There's a video where he take a metal rod and somewhat easily drives it 3' into the ground. He may be your mentor your looking for!

Point is I think you need to address your soil, as you well know. Do you have the financial means to get something like a tow behind liquid and dry spreader to use for organics, fertilizer, milk, pre m's, etc?

Can you hire someone with a bobcat to spread some good topsoil and or compost? Then maybe till it in.

If you have some $ to address these things you can turn your frustration to joy. Personally, if I was going to buy a house with a 43k ft lawn I would build several thousand into the equation for a large riding lawnmower and one of those spreaders you stand on.

In terms of those trees, have you thought of just doing a border under them and planting hostas? Then you could focus on the grass that see sun.

Last, please post pics if you can.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Also, not that you haven't thought of or already done it, but more landscaping/hardscaping to give yourself less lawn to manage. That's what I've been doing.


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## Belgianbillie (Apr 3, 2018)

kevreh said:


> Belgianbillie-
> 
> Have you watched Pete from gci turf's videos? He's in North Carolina, clay headquarters. He"s heavy into organic, mowing long, and things like humics, kelp, yuca, etc. There's a video where he take a metal rod and somewhat easily drives it 3' into the ground. He may be your mentor your looking for!
> 
> ...


I will take pics when it stops raining today so yea they are coming. Yea i watch the videos of GCI turf. I am amazed he was able to push that spike in.

I wonder what kind of stuff i need to add. I did aerify + bio once, but thats 64 dollars per treatment. Online it said you have to do it every two weeks for multiple years so that ends up pretty expensive.

Does pete come to these forums. Maybe i can ask him for a schedule of when to do what.

I wondered about toe behind sprayers, wonder how you hook that up to the mower. My mower is starting to lose quite a bit of power so perhaps its not best to hook it up to it.


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## Belgianbillie (Apr 3, 2018)

Wondering. I applied 4-4-2 in spring, but didnt get rid of it. It is dying now in summer where there is no shade...

However what if i were to apply it again in august at a 4-2-2-2 application rate. Then i would have added 20 oz instead of 16oz.

I wonder what happens. Is it just bad for the environment, or will all the grass die? Either is obviously not good, but im losing my battle against the triv and as seen in my other post, roundup is not a possibility.


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Belgianbillie said:


> I wonder what kind of stuff i need to add. I did aerify + bio once, but thats 64 dollars per treatment. Online it said you have to do it every two weeks for multiple years so that ends up pretty expensive.
> 
> Does pete come to these forums. Maybe i can ask him for a schedule of when to do what.


He sells the green county fert stuff and swears by it. Not sure what makes it different than kelp4less or other humic powders on amazon.... something tells me its good marketing, but idk.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

Belgianbillie said:


> bellts02 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok you could go nuclear this year. Glypho in fall and again in spring and through the summer, then seed in fall 2019. I gotta think that would kill the poa and guve ur new seed a chance. You may have to use that creeping red fescue with so much shade.
> ...


Do it in stages I have a pretty big yard as well...about 30k sf of grass. I did about 5000 sf this spring, doing another 11000 this fall. I agree its too much all at once. Plus the wife will be more down if your not killing the whole lawn.


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## Belgianbillie (Apr 3, 2018)

g-man said:


> Where is your soil test? And pictures?


I did a soil test where i did it at home 2 years ago. Was pretty good. I just purchased another one last week to send it.


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## Roosterchest (Aug 3, 2017)

I can't believe someone called the Pine Tree the devils tree. I love them. You want a devil tree, check out tree of heaven.


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

Have you ever had a soil structure test done to prove it as clay? Particle size plays a big role in classification.

You could always overseed with rye or tall fescue if you want to thicken up the canopy. If you have missed any pre emergent since it was planted chances are it's contaminated with poa/rough bluegrass or whatever is natively growing in the area.

Light N apps along with some milo could promote a lot of growth as you probably have a lower CEC. But without a soil test it's a guessing game.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

If you're patient and willing to take the long view, the progression goes something like this:

Mowing own lawn.

Learning about irrigation and fertilization.

Learning about weed control - pre and posts. What's effective for what. When not to apply what.

Successful Fall overseed - things are starting to look better now.

Maybe another overseed or two - getting the hang of this and turf is looking even better.

Weed control and overseed success are now second nature; would not think twice about gly all the tough weed spots in Fall and just reseed. Lawn is really looking good now.

Having weed free, strong turf is now a cake walk except for fungus control.

Start learning fungus control - weeds are now viewed as a trivial nusance compared to trying to control fungus. Turf looks so good that a single blade with a few fungal lesions stands out like a sore thumb. Total obsession begins and leads to the next phase . . .

Growth regulators, humic unicorn piss concoctions, mow at 1.00234 mm, etc., etc. Local golf course superintendent is jealous of your turf.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

@Delmarva Keith has obviously thought about this a great deal.
He has a pretty good size lawn too. I am engrossed in step III in the house I moved too one and a half years ago.
According to measurements made in the website offering to sell astro turf my lawns are about 54,000 square feet.
Irrigation is not really an option for me. The local rate for water is $41.00 per 1000 cubic feet. My lawn looks like clay even when you take a soil sample but actal analysis showed it was silty not clayey which was helpful to know.

I would encourage you to keep at it. Maybe don't worry about triv so much until you get some other stuff growing. I think the deep rooting characteristic of tttf would have me looking at that for all my overseeding. That is what I am going to do here this fall even though there seems to be some kbg in my lawn. Amongst the bermuda, and sedges. (I think I have gotten most of the dallis) I have had tinges of the kind of worry you are having because I getting on the old side to be doing this sort of thing. I actually bought a new aerator. My Mrs. is very pleasantly positive about all this but she really made fun of me when she looked out the window and saw me trying to chase this damn aerator. I wish it was a ride on. It gave me a humongous muscle strain.

Simplicity should be a pretty good mower. How are your tires? Are they fully inflated?

I have spent a fortuna on the tree service. The property was overdue. There was a little copse of trees on the corner. So pretty when they bloomed. The tree service posted a link on their FB page right after they finished my lot. "Don't plant Bradford Pears!" After an $8500 tree service bill I had to have them back twice ($2300) to clean up and then remove half a dozen Bradford Pears. And the city took away one snapped section one morning. Of course now I don't have to worry about a "shady mix" in that area any more. We have been here since mid December 2016 and since then there were four major snaps of the Bradford Pears.

I also had a big Walnut and lots of smaller ones that grew from seeds. I discover that Bradford Pears are not the only "junk trees" but that if you are not farming them for Walnut or lumber Walnut trees are undesireable too. They were removed with a 100 foot tall sweet gum (had six at the old place) and a couple of silver maples and some thickets. Walnuts secrete something called juglone that prevents other plants from growing. So I hope the removed walnuts won't be a curse on the land in years to come.

Last fall we had an "extreme drought" event here in St. Louis. Overseeding or Renovation would have failed without irrigation. This year there is extreme drought in Missouri but St. Louis is not in drought at this time.

My thoughts for you are:
Hang in there it will get better.
Don't be afraid to make your lawn look piebald for even a few years. Rome isn't built in one year. I am looking at this as like a five year project. If after five years it still looks stupid I might go back to just mowing. But in the meanwhile I am going to hammer the things I don't want in the lawn. Even if its hot out.
Use tttf because their roots go the deepest and will eventually help your soil.
I am with you about not doing a complete reno. It would have been reasonable here but too too risky for me. 
Maybe after you aerate you need to use a big lawn vac like a Billy Goat and suck up those cores and stick them into a compost heap. Let em dry in the sun and then suck em up.
There is a guy called Tom Green on you tube who is battling triv. He has tried both Tenacity and Velocity. Neither worked very well for him. I notice that a single app of glyphosate hardly bothers bermuda grass, won't kill sedges and only kills the tops of dallis grass. (3 oz per gallon sprayed to wetting) His videos I found worth watching.
If you are not seeing the results you want it may not feel therapeutic. But the battle is probably doing you some good.


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## LIgrass (May 26, 2017)

If I was in this situation I wound roundup everything, scalp..then pick a week with lots of rain in the 10-day forecast and throw down a few hundred pounds of a good blend of PRG (with KBG mixed in in the shady areas). Another option go with all TTTF.


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## craigdt (Apr 21, 2018)

Not going to lie:
43,000 sq feet is quite a lot to handle.

I'm trying to manage 7,000 at a high level and it's not easy or cheap.

43,000 is too much to do all at once, with the equipment you have and your tolerance for the nuclear option.

So break it into small chunks and set reasonable expectations.

Some of the guys here have grass nicer than my carpet, but they also have tidy little suburban yards.
You will go broke and insane trying to get similar results.

But you really will have to kill off everything a time or two to get your issues under control.

Also- ask yourself: Is it worth it?
Because it may not be.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

craigdt said:


> Also- ask yourself: Is it worth it?
> Because it may not be.


Yup. Everybody wants to be a millionaire or play for the Patriots or... pick your dream.

For most... it will not happen no matter what you do... for any number or reasons.

Kick to the curb that which you can not or will not do and... chase after that which can and will do.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Delmarva Keith said:


> If you're patient and willing to take the long view, the progression goes something like this:
> 
> Mowing own lawn.
> 
> ...


 :lol: I think you just captured the progression of tiers 1, 2, and 3


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

social port said:


> :lol: I think you just captured the progression of tiers 1, 2, and 3


Seen it so many times. It's a contagious disease. :lol:


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