# Is there a nuclear option?



## Danno99 (Aug 9, 2018)

I really enjoy working in the yard and I was hoping that this would be a relaxing thing to do as I approach retirement age.
It's been anything but  Somehow I've been cursed with Poa Annua that's all over my lawn.
I see my neighbors who never do anything to their lawns with perfect grass, and for the last 10 years I'm out on my lawn with a wheelbarrow, shovel, 5 yards of compost and topsoil in the back of the house, and every chemical, additive, that you can possibly think of in my garage. I'm tired of hand pulling, spraying, digging out, applying pre and post emergents, on my lawn. I'm not going to do it anymore.
Is there a nuclear option to totally remove all my grass, destroy any traces of any seeds that might sprout in 5 years from now, and start over? Are there any landscaping places that offer anything like this? Is there a term for this that I can Google?

Thanks for any input.


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

Danno99 said:


> I really enjoy working in the yard and I was hoping that this would be a relaxing thing to do as I approach retirement age.
> It's been anything but  Somehow I've been cursed with Poa Annua that's all over my lawn.
> I see my neighbors who never do anything to their lawns with perfect grass, and for the last 10 years I'm out on my lawn with a wheelbarrow, shovel, 5 yards of compost and topsoil in the back of the house, and every chemical, additive, that you can possibly think of in my garage. I'm tired of hand pulling, spraying, digging out, applying pre and post emergents, on my lawn. I'm not going to do it anymore.
> Is there a nuclear option to totally remove all my grass, destroy any traces of any seeds that might sprout in 5 years from now, and start over? Are there any landscaping places that offer anything like this? Is there a term for this that I can Google?
> ...


I think the solution that you are looking for would be considered a full reno. With a considerable amount of time for fallowing the soil.

Check out the renovation guide for cool season lawns.
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=16808


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## JML (Jul 26, 2021)

Worth reminding that PoaA seeds can remain dormant in the soil for 3 years. So even with a full Reno, you'll need a serious preemergent plan.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

I would say before going nuclear, share with us what your pre and post emergent plans look like during a year.

Perhaps we can help point you in the right direction, Poa A is an annual, with the right pre em program late summer, you can avoid it from coming up, so you won't be fighting it every year.

I wouldn't do a reno unless at least half your yard consists of just weeds.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Danno99, from what I understand, there actually is such an option, and it will even destroy seeds.

Solarization.

It's an involved process to do it right, but I remember @osuturfman saying he once saw it done in a home lawn, and the results were phenomenal, even a few years later after the reno...better than you might get from spraying a nonselective herbicide 3x.

The good news is that Summer is the perfect time to kill via solarization. The bad news is that takes a while, and you may only be able to do a small area in a given year depending on resources.

As a bonus, it will kill any insect pests (and beneficial ones) in the upper soil layers, too. Possibly some disease pathogens, too.


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## robjak (Mar 31, 2020)

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28914
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29888&hilit=Solarization


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## Danno99 (Aug 9, 2018)

San said:


> I would say before going nuclear, share with us what your pre and post emergent plans look like during a year.
> 
> Perhaps we can help point you in the right direction, Poa A is an annual, with the right pre em program late summer, you can avoid it from coming up, so you won't be fighting it every year.
> 
> I wouldn't do a reno unless at least half your yard consists of just weeds.


 Typically I would use Step 1 or Halts, or something similar each spring. After this I would probably only use Milorganite 3-4 times for the rest of the season, and not much else. I have zero crabgrass or weeds, unless you want to consider Poa a weed? I'll show you current pictures of my lawn. One is the front of my lawn up to the Japanese Maple, which is in pretty good condition, and the other shows beyond the maple where I'm currently pulling out the POA by hand and putting down topsoil. I think another picture shows the difference in the color of the grass. I haven't mowed lately so there are grass seed heads.






Whenever I overseed, usually without much success, I use black beauty tttf.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

I wouldn't nuke that, that seems salvageable. If you don't want Poa A, it's a weed.

The thing with Poa A is that the spring seeds wait for things to cool down, so they won't sprout until fall.
If you only do pre-m in the spring, that does nothing to stop the Poa A. You want to add a Pre-M around August/September, so you can stop germination of the seeds.

For the current season, I would just add some higher level of N fertilizer, to push the grass that's there.
I see some taller dark green grass bunches in the last picture. Unless that's just because you only have the TTTF in those spots, the lack of darker green on around it, would indicate that the rest can use some N.

If you do the fall pre-em I would skip the overseed this year. Unless you really want to do both this season.

But in that case I would oversees around the August/September timeframe (not sure how far up north you are, here in MA it would be later in September before it really starts cooling down) and on the same day put down Tenacity and 30 days later add another pre-em of Tenacity and then 60 days after that do a pre-m with Prodiamine.

If you haven't had a lot of success with the overseed, see if you can improve seed to soil contact.
Use a garden weasel on the bare spots, or perhaps rent a slice seeder if you want to do the whole yard.
Then add some good starter fertilizer and I would personally add a thin layer of peat moss.
Then just make sure you keep the soil wet at all times. However this is listed much more detailed in the guide(s) here: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1595


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## NELawn (May 7, 2019)

San said:


> Poa A is an annual, with the right pre em program late summer, you can avoid it from coming up, so you won't be fighting it every year.


In new England under the right conditions, poa-a makes it through the summer.

I have brown spots seem to die off every summer, they stay dead in the fall, but by the spring these spots come back with band new poa-a seedheads.

Even with multiple pre-m apps, I had a ton of mature poa-a in my lawn. It gets less and less every year, but only because I keep hand pulling it and keeping up a pre-m barrier.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

NELawn said:


> San said:
> 
> 
> > Poa A is an annual, with the right pre em program late summer, you can avoid it from coming up, so you won't be fighting it every year.
> ...


Yeah, it can be a battle, I've had luck by stressing it with tenacity as a post, during the hot summer time. Or like you said, pulling it.

But without the right pre-m, it's a battle that you'll be sure to lose.


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## NELawn (May 7, 2019)

Just to give the OP an idea of my yearly annual battle regime......

*just keep in my my annual Tenacity limit is 16oz, my KBG is very tolerant of it, and I can skip over-seeding because KBG spread like crazy. I couldn't do this with a non kbg lawn*

As soon as the forsythia bloom (April) I drop 1/3 of my max prodiamine app
I'll then blanket spray Tenacity at the 4oz/ac rate as soon as is start seeing poa-a seed heads. Keep in mind all the poa-a doesn't come up at the same time

10 days after that Ill hand pull what i can, but then start my spot spraying

I will spot spray at the 2oz/ac rate every 4 days, I have KBG so I get 16oz a year. Ill also hand pull where I can, sacrificing a lot of KBG as I do it

Ill stop 3 weeks before Memorial day because thats when we have a cookout and I need the lawn to look good, but to be honest by that point the KBG seed heads come out and it's impossible to tell the difference between poa-a once you start mowing the KBG seed heads.

Once we hit mid june, the KBG seedheads are gone, and the poa-a seed heads start coming back, ill usually hand pull after that point. Ill usually walk the yard before I cut and after heavy rains when its easier to pull

By early August I put down the 2nd 1/3 of my max prodiamine app

As the poa-a in my law starts to die or go dormant I pull it out, by now Ill have plenty of brown poa-a in the lawn

Mid september its my last 1/3 of my max prodiamine.

Before the soil freezes in November Ill put down a "hail mary" app of dimension pre-m, just in case we have a mild winter and the poa-a germinates late in the year.

Come spring its starts all over and I get pissed that I still have poa-a coming up.

So I guess calling it a war is an understatement, poacure is probably the only hope in this battle.


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## Danno99 (Aug 9, 2018)

I've decided that I'm not going to go nuclear and try and control it, but I'm not the most experienced at stuff like this so I'll appreciate your help. I'm willing to fight it and not bother trying to grow new grass until I'm confident that I'm getting ahead of the game. The pictures are only 1/3 of my lawn and the rest looks pretty good. I'm willing to have a dirt lawn on that one side of my driveway even it takes a season or two.
"For the current season, I would just add some higher level of N fertilizer". Sure, any suggestions? 
"You want to add a Pre-M around August/September, so you can stop germination of the seeds." Fine. I have some Prodiamine 65 WDG in my garage that I've never used. Is this what I should use? How can I get the timing to put this (or something else) down correctly? Is there a soil temperature I should be aiming for? I'm in NH, just a mile above the NH line.
I would assume hand pulling should continue? Can I use any Round-UP that I have hanging around?
And if the steps above cover this year, what should I use once the Forsythias start blooming next year?
I appreciate your suggestions. Keep them coming as I'm sure I'll have more questions down the road.

Thanks!
Dan in NH


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

Any fertilizer where the first number is high. I would say use straight Urea (46-0-0), but the risk of burning your grass is greater. Lowes has a Lesco 30-0-10 that's pretty good.

Prodiamine is good. Your soil temp target is around 70 degrees.

Hand pulling can continue, to help reduce what's there.

You can use Round-Up, but assuming it's the standard with Glyphosate, it will kill anything it touches, including your grass.

Next year I would do another application of Prodiamine, target soil temp is 55 degrees.


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## mjc440 (Dec 27, 2020)

Growth regulators in the spring should also keep the seed heads lower in the canopy and favor some of your desirable grass over the Poa annua. Aneuw seems like a decent option for this purpose.

I went from lots of Poa to much less in one year by doing prodiamine in the fall and growth regulator in the spring. I haven't found tenacity to be super effective but it will definitely help some.

However, I don't have to worry about the Poa making it through the summer though. It's already starting to die in mid June.

Good luck!


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## jcs43920 (Jun 3, 2019)

Sounds like you are playing a game of cat and mouse like most people. I would consider two apps of pre-E in the fall and two apps in the spring. If you stagger between prodiamine and dythiapier you can do four total. Also re-seeding infected areas with new top soil hardly helps because the annua seed will eventually pop back up the same time you are nursing your new seed. You need to consider using pre emergents and pushing the lawn you have to fill in the spots, or replacing bare areas with plugs or sod.


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## MissT (11 mo ago)

Maybe your lawn care measure don't suit the needs of your lawn:

Do you make soil tests to really know the conditions and needs of your soil?
Are you sure, you are applying pre- and post-emergents the right way? (soil-temperature, amount, surfactant, watering ...)
What does your regular schedule for fertilizer and water look like?


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## Danno99 (Aug 9, 2018)

"Any fertilizer where the first number is high. I would say use straight Urea (46-0-0), but the risk of burning your grass is greater. Lowes has a Lesco 30-0-10 that's pretty good."
I work at HD so I have access to many different fertilizers there. 
I get my soil tested every year. My latest results are attached.



I'm not familiar with Aneuw? Googling it shows that it's expensive.

I may not be applying post emergents correctly since I've rarely used them. Trying to learn. Checking for a soil temp map for my area.

Does my soil need anything at this point? I appreciate the suggestions.


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## Danno99 (Aug 9, 2018)

jcs43920 said:


> Also re-seeding infected areas with new top soil hardly helps because the annua seed will eventually pop back up the same time you are nursing your new seed.
> 
> What if I don't reseed? I don't have a problem with putting it off for a season or two?
> 
> ...


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## MissT (11 mo ago)

Your soil test tells you to use fertilizer without any phosphorus for quite some time. Your very high P-Level provides issues with snow-mold, poa annua and hinders iron. Reduce calcium and magnesium use more potassium. You might use ammonium-sulfate for nitrogen and add some patent potash. Try to bring your soil nutrients to the needed balance.

In terms of pre-emergents I am quite at the beginning, so I can't offer you empirical values. But as a result of my researches, spraying prodiamine 3 times a year should be a game changer in fighting poa annua and preventing new broad leave weeds. Spraying it at the right time (>soil temperature in your area!) is the key. For me the Youtube-videos of "The Lawn Care Nut"/"Lawns Across America"/Allyn Hane were very helpful.


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## Danno99 (Aug 9, 2018)

Hey all, just one quick follow up here. The area with the Poa Annual in my yard was also in an area where I needed to do some leveling. I've killed all the Poa, along with the grass, and soon I'll have a landscaping company come in and remove all the dead grass, and put down a ton of loam and have this area leveled once and for all.
My only concern is that it's been suggested that I use Prodiamine in the fall. Does the fact that I'm about to cover these dormant seeds with a few inches of loam be of any concern? Should I use the Prodiamine once before all the loam is put down? Thanks again!


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

Danno99 said:


> Hey all, just one quick follow up here. The area with the Poa Annual in my yard was also in an area where I needed to do some leveling. I've killed all the Poa, along with the grass, and soon I'll have a landscaping company come in and remove all the dead grass, and put down a ton of loam and have this area leveled once and for all.
> My only concern is that it's been suggested that I use Prodiamine in the fall. Does the fact that I'm about to cover these dormant seeds with a few inches of loam be of any concern? Should I use the Prodiamine once before all the loam is put down? Thanks again!


Prodiamine prevents seed from germination so I would not put it any where you are seeding. You can apply tenacity to suppress poa when seeding and apply prodiamine at 60d after germination.


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## Danno99 (Aug 9, 2018)

I should have added that I won't be seeding at all for the rest of the year, and I may not even seed this area until next fall. I really, really want to be able to stay on top of this Poa and I'm thinking that getting several applications of Prodiamine in while I can might keep me ahead of it? Because I won't be seeding soon, I assume it will be ok. Again, I was just wondering if I should do it before this area will soon be under a few inches of new loam.

Thanks again,


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