# POA/winter weed help



## vallecrucis (Jan 20, 2021)

Need some advice on POA in my dormant bermuda. I also have various other broadleaf type weeds. There isn't a ton, but getting more widespread enough where I don't want to hand pull all of them either.

Have been religious about pre-emergent (prodiamine only) so I'm not sure what's up.

2 Questions:

1. what do you guys treat these with that's ok to use right now with the temps lower (even though it's warm right now in NC). Image? Certainty/Celcius? Will it just work slower since it's cooler right now?

2. Should I be rotating the prodiamine in the fall/spring with something else? Not sure where all this is coming from.


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## Ppb1203 (Jun 17, 2020)

I also live in NC Triad area and sometimes have a few Poa Annua pop up here and there in my Zoysia. Seeds blow in from neighbor. I eliminate them with Certainty. Can take 3-4 weeks for plant to die, but always works for me.

Also seeds can lay dormant and then germinate 2-3 years or later.


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

If Poa is still an issue you need to apply pre emergent more frequently at a lower rate.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Yes, you can spray a selective herbicide on them like you would in the Summer but just know it will take much longer to kill it as they aren't growing as actively due to the cooler weather. Depending on how many there are you can just wait until you do your Spring scalp as that will eliminate a majority of them and even more of them will be removed if you do a verticut also.

Once you get a few seasons of caring for your lawn under your belt and have a thick and healthy lawn Winter weeds won't be so much of an issue going forward.


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## rjw0283 (May 11, 2020)

Certainty stops the growth to POA pretty quick, around 1 day. It takes 2-4 weeks for it to brown up and die, but it works well. 
You may need to adjust your prodiamine timing and rates. 
You could try using Simazine to the mix as well as it's cheap and also claims to have a post-emergence effect as well. 
People claim spectacle flo will prevent it entirely, I just cannot stomach the price.

I had a BAD poa problem around 4 years ago, every year it diminished a little by little until where it is today (no POA this year)

I'd hit it with certainty. Kill it now to prevent more seeds.

As far as what Herbicide to use, I'd base it off what you have. If you have certainty use that, or use image for poa if you have it. In my experience, Celsius doesn't work on POA.


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## vallecrucis (Jan 20, 2021)

rjw0283 said:


> Certainty stops the growth to POA pretty quick, around 1 day. It takes 2-4 weeks for it to brown up and die, but it works well.
> You may need to adjust your prodiamine timing and rates.
> You could try using Simazine to the mix as well as it's cheap and also claims to have a post-emergence effect as well.
> People claim spectacle flo will prevent it entirely, I just cannot stomach the price.
> ...


Thanks for the response. I will probably go ahead and try some Certainty on it. If i have some other broadleaf type weeds would it do any harm to mix some Celcius in there? I was going to go ahead and purchase this combo for the summer anyway since the combo seems like one of the "go-to" for bermuda.


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## rjw0283 (May 11, 2020)

You could use Celsius, it'll kill very slow in the cooler months. Or you could use anything cheap from Lowes or HD such as spectracide etc: to kill all the other weeds. Celsius is good but it earns it's money in the heat. Unless you are Targeting a weed that only Celsius will kill I'd use something with a quicker kill. 
There a max rate limitations with Celsius as well, I've never hit them but they exist.


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

@Mightyquinn and everyone else, If someone has some common bermuda that they are learning on with a POA issue could they wait for full dormancy and then apply glyphosate? I can see pairing the price of Certainty with a higher end cultivar but does it make sense with common? Not my lawn, I know very little about warm season lawns and am asking for a friend.


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## rjw0283 (May 11, 2020)

Grass Clippins said:


> @Mightyquinn and everyone else, If someone has some common bermuda that they are learning on with a POA issue could they wait for full dormancy and then apply glyphosate? I can see pairing the price of Certainty with a higher end cultivar but does it make sense with common? Not my lawn, I know very little about warm season lawns and am asking for a friend.


Some people do this. I would never do it. My wife did this when I was out of town in February a few years ago. She grabbed the wrong 1-gallon sprayer and it had glyphosate in it for the rock beds and such. The grass was dormant, or it should have been. Every spot she sprayed showed once the spring came. It recovered, but it took a while. 
Pretty sure I have a common cultivar in my front and it looks pretty decent. Common can look really good if it's given the proper care.

Certainty is expensive for around a 100 for 1.25 oz. But a 20 OZ bottle of Cryder (Same AI) can be had for 320 bucks or so, plenty of product to split with others to bring the cost down. It's sometimes listed on the marketplace here for a reasonable price.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Grass Clippins said:


> @Mightyquinn and everyone else, If someone has some common bermuda that they are learning on with a POA issue could they wait for full dormancy and then apply glyphosate? I can see pairing the price of Certainty with a higher end cultivar but does it make sense with common? Not my lawn, I know very little about warm season lawns and am asking for a friend.


I DO NOT recommend spraying Glyphosate on dormant bermuda for weeds. To me the risk isn't worth the reward, you are better off focusing on Pre and Post emergent and getting a healthy thick lawn. I guess worst case you could go to Lowe's or Home Depot and get something off the shelf to spray on the lawn that will take care of the weeds when the lawn is dormant instead of spending the money of professional products.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Poa pulls pretty easily... just saying. It may seem like a daunting task for 3000sf but if you break it up into sections and just do a little at a time, you would completely remove them instead of waiting several weeks for a herbicide to work.


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## Bombers (Jul 14, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> Poa pulls pretty easily... just saying. It may seem like a daunting task for 3000sf but if you break it up into sections and just do a little at a time, you would completely remove them instead of waiting several weeks for a herbicide to work.


This is what I've been doing with breakthrough patches. Every now and then I grab a walmart/grocery plastic bag when I let the dogs out in the yard. You'll be amazed at how much you can pull up and fill a bag even though the patches don't seem that bad looking from afar.


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## Lawn Whisperer (Feb 15, 2021)

An article on  Herbicide Resistance  from TAMU. And a NVS8jTiWFo8][/MEDIA] pre-emergent video  from TGF.


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

vallecrucis said:


> Need some advice on POA in my dormant bermuda. I also have various other broadleaf type weeds. There isn't a ton, but getting more widespread enough where I don't want to hand pull all of them either.
> 
> Have been religious about pre-emergent (prodiamine only) so I'm not sure what's up.
> 
> ...


@vallecrucis 
With a small yard you can add a second mode of action pre-emergent for very little cost. I would add a second mode of action with your prodiamine. Coastal herbicide and reading the linked thread would be my choice going forward.
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31636


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

@vallecrucis

I also have had a ton of Poa emerge this year despite applying prodiamine and Simazine this fall. I was a little late but I'm still surprised this much made it through. Back yard got dithiopyr/Simazine combo and has a bit less. I don't have irrigation and since it has been so dry I'm guessing it just didn't get activated properly.

Probably have to go back to split apps early and often approach.


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

@rjw0283 & @Mightyquinn Thanks guys! I'll make sure to pass that information along.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm in the broadcast app of glyphosate camp.

However, I'm also open to adding another MOA and/or going selective herbicide vs non selective.

Monument/revolver/katana plus simazine
Or simazine and negate

I would include AMS with the glyphosate.
For the others, I would think MSO.


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## JayGo (Jun 13, 2019)

.


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## JayGo (Jun 13, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> Poa pulls pretty easily... just saying. It may seem like a daunting task for 3000sf but if you break it up into sections and just do a little at a time, you would completely remove them instead of waiting several weeks for a herbicide to work.


This is the very first thing I always suggest to anyone who asks me about reducing/eliminating weeds.
I'll sit out there with my portable speaker and just listen to something while I hand pull weeds.

Especially if you have 3K sq ft.


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## Mikeyp_1284 (Jul 23, 2021)

Bombers said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> > Poa pulls pretty easily... just saying. It may seem like a daunting task for 3000sf but if you break it up into sections and just do a little at a time, you would completely remove them instead of waiting several weeks for a herbicide to work.
> ...


Have you had breakthrough poa after using esplanade?


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## Bombers (Jul 14, 2020)

Mikeyp_1284 said:


> Bombers said:
> 
> 
> > Redtwin said:
> ...


So far none from scanning from a distance. I'm amazed. I do still have some rogue bermuda hanging on its last color that I need to investigate to see if any POA is blended in.


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## Jagermeister (May 18, 2021)

Posting my comments from another thread.

One vote here for Negate. Good price, multiple MoAs, some pre m action. I put down two apps in the Fall and it took forever to finally kill or stunt the poa outbreak I had. Revolver will likely also be very slow when cold. I learned you have to be really patient, I mean really patient.

I was gone for a couple of weeks over Christmas and just got back. My bermuda actually greened back up again and I can see some growth. I expect with the consistent cold Temps and freezes in the next two weeks, it should be a final knockout punch.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Jagermeister said:


> ... it should be a final knockout punch.


Until it wakes up again in late Feb/early March. :lol: We really are fixin' to have a very short season of total dormancy in the Southeast. Our sidewalk edges are still very green here and that's with Tif419.


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## Jagermeister (May 18, 2021)

MasterMech said:


> Jagermeister said:
> 
> 
> > ... it should be a final knockout punch.
> ...


I agree. Same here but even large swaths of my lawn is green and with Tiff419!


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## RentalLawn (Jan 4, 2022)

Yes, we've experienced a very warm December which led to a healthy germination of poa annua during this dormancy period. My lawn is rife with poa this year. I know I put down a good application of pre-emergent, but poa has its lovely resistant ways.

I did a neat experiment with Image today: I used a hand-pump sprayer to zone-apply Image at a 1oz/1 gallon mix ratio. I applied it around noon today and returned at 5pm to reapply for quality assurance purposes and then water-in. I don't think I was seeing things, but most all of the poa was _already_ yellowing and wilting. I was rather amazed!

I'm used to applying it via hose-end sprayer at 12oz per quart bottle. I typically notice some wilting and stunted growth with 2-3 weeks after the application, but nothing like this result!

I chose to apply during this slight warm (60s) and sunny spell, so maybe that helped foliar uptake of my application.

Just trying something new and learning from the results.


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## Theycallmemrr (May 16, 2019)

Mikeyp_1284 said:


> Bombers said:
> 
> 
> > Redtwin said:
> ...


I had some breakthrough using esplanade but it seems to be on the borders of my yard (sidewalk/street/driveway) where I don't think I had good coverage. My yard has been pretty spot free of weeds using it. I also sprayed prodiamine, simazine, and a three herbicide along with it. The only issues I had were a couple of wild onion/garlic and some fescue. My backyard was nothing weeds about four years ago and every season it has gotten healthier. Something I think most don't take in consideration is pH and soil compaction when it comes to weeds and how some weeds thrive in poor soil conditions.


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## macdawgg (Jun 16, 2020)

I came across this and read what others were saying. My lawn is starting to show POA in the backyard in patches. The temps here in NC are bouncing all over the place. I have some image and wanted to know is it ok to use now or wait until the temps stabilize?


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## RentalLawn (Jan 4, 2022)

macdawgg said:


> I came across this and read what others were saying. My lawn is starting to show POA in the backyard in patches. The temps here in NC are bouncing all over the place. I have some image and wanted to know is it ok to use now or wait until the temps stabilize?


Well, depending on where you are in North Carolina, I'd just wait for a few warm days (>50°F)of ambient temperatures and dry soil to apply.

Image works very slowly, 3-5 weeks, but it works. All of my emerged poa is, at least, stunted or yellowing just before the spikelet stage (thank goodness!) due to a two-round method that I started in December. Complete kill wasn't attained due to big temperature swings here as well this year. But fortunately, we are just about to turn the corner here in the Atlanta area with soil temperatures starting to trend into the low-50s. So, I'm content with the overall results.

So, it's really up to you. You could wait until you scalp (if you do) and hand-pull the poa after or just apply it now and stay the course and wait until it dies off in April/May.


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## macdawgg (Jun 16, 2020)

Thanks!-I'll try that then!


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