# Poa triv recommendations



## MassHole (Jun 27, 2018)

So I have 2 areas with poa triv:

- I used Certainty to spot spray Aug 13
- I used Certainty to cover the whole front Aug 20 (yes, Certainty stunted the KBG in my front severely) - lesson learned, never do this again  
- dethatched mechanically 3 times after 2 weeks
- seeded 80% GCI and 20% Midnight KBG (by weight) with Scotts starter with Tenacity, Milo, and covered in peatmoss.

It's filled in nicely. I mowed for the first time on Oct 7, and the poa triv is back in the same spots. 

I think its too late to hit the spots in the front this year, so I'm looking for ideas / suggestions to control / address until I can nuke the spots next fall. Here are my ideas:
1. Tenacity spot spray this fall (late Oct, early Nov) then triple spray starting April 15, every 2 weeks 
2. Tenacity with Triclopyr spot spray this fall (late Oct, early Nov)
3. Nuke the spot late March / early April (its small, less than 100 sq ft) and reseed 80% GCI and 20% Midnight KBG (by weight) with Scotts starter with Tenacity, Milo, and covered in peatmoss, put down Lesco 19-0-7 11 lbs pre-emergent May 15.
4. Wait for the fall and nuke the spots.

I am leaning towards 1 + 3, or 2 + 3.

Thoughts?


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

MassHole said:


> So I have 2 areas with poa triv:
> 
> - I used Certainty to spot spray Aug 13
> - I used Certainty to cover the whole front Aug 20 (yes, Certainty stunted the KBG in my front severely) - lesson learned, never do this again
> ...


Im in the same boat as you with Poa Triv issues. I'm planning on using the cheaper and proven route and nuking it with glypo. I'm going to be doing a partial Reno and spot spray throughout my lawn next fall. Triv is the absolute worst. It's relentless

I'm on the fence with my smaller spots. I'm also in Massachusetts. I'd like to tackle them in the spring but I'm also concerned that the new seeds won't have enough time to develop prior to summer hitting the scene.


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

Does tenacity control poa triv? I didn't think it did.

Here's an article that talks about controlling poa triv in cool season turf, and the only way labeled for home lawns is glyphosate (may have changed - this is 4 years old).


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Option 5 - round up early in spring (now optional).

In my experience poa t is best controlled in the spring.

Why? poa t goes dormant in the summer and it takes some cool temps for it to be aggressive. You could try to hit it early in the fall (august renovation), but it is still too dormant to get killed. This means that by late fall it is growing, but the rest of the lawn is slowing down. I would take pictures from the second floor with flags or something to help locate it later. You could try the round up now (hurt it), but it could recover somewhat during the rest of the fall and early spring.

But round up in spring is key. You will hit it and hit it again when it is growing in early spring. But as summer approaches it just doesnt have too much time to recover with the heat. Your KBG will come it and cover the spots.

This might take more than one season to completely remove it, but it is the best approach to deal with it, in my opinion.


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## HomerGuy (Jun 5, 2017)

g-man said:


> Option 5 - round up early in spring (now optional).


Can Tenacity be used as a "marker" to identify poa triv? What I mean is, will Tenacity bleach poa triv, which would then highlight the areas to be sprayed with glyphosate?


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

HomerGuy said:


> Can Tenacity be used as a "marker" to identify poa triv? What I mean is, will Tenacity bleach poa triv, which would then highlight the areas to be sprayed with glyphosate?


Yes. Tenacity "lights up" _poa trivaialis_, helping in locating it in a lawn, particularly at times when the desirable grasses are growing faster and are a lighter green than in times of slower growth.

However, don't be fooled - even though the _poa trivialis_ turns white from the Tenacity (mesotrione) the _poa trivialis_ will recover.

When I identify an area of _poa trivialis_ in the lawn, I either glyphosate the entire area, including an 8" extra perimeter all the way around the triv patch, or use a sod cutter to completely cut out the section of _poa trivialis_. Actually, my preferred approach is to do both - use the glyphosate, and then cut out the top 2" of soil from the entire dead area.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

ken-n-nancy said:


> HomerGuy said:
> 
> 
> > Can Tenacity be used as a "marker" to identify poa triv? What I mean is, will Tenacity bleach poa triv, which would then highlight the areas to be sprayed with glyphosate?
> ...


Not trying to hijack the thread. Have you tried just using a sod cutter to remove it with any luck?


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> Not trying to hijack the thread. Have you tried just using a sod cutter to remove it with any luck?


Yes, I have done that, and it seems to work well, as long as the sod removed is pretty deep. I think it works well for _poa trivialis_ because triv has shallow roots. I use a sod cutter at a 2" depth and go at least 8" around the furthest extent of where I can identify any triv.

I did the "no kill" approach on a few areas this year and haven't had problems with the _poa trivialis_ returning in those spots, although the baby trivialis often hides pretty well in existing grass until about 6-8 months later, when it suddenly explodes into a little patch of primarily _poa trivialis_.

I'm hoping to write up a _poa trivialis_ article this fall, but haven't gotten a round tuit yet. Need to check and see if I have one of those hiding in the garage...


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

I'm really interested in hearing about your results. If this were to be another alternative, I certainly wouldn't mind going this route. This would cut down on the 10-14+ kill wait with glypho


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

I think @Delmarva Keith had some success killing poa triv with a tenacity/triclopyr mix at label rate.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Here is the "after" pic. I'm almost positive it was triv. When alive, it was a dense, thin bladed patch of grass of lighter color. Not necessarily unattractive but didn't match my fescue. I replanted the spot and it was indeed shallow rooted, super easy to just chew up to get the new seed in the ground. Seems like it had to be triv. Can't think of what else it could have been. Anyway, whatever it was, Tenacity plus triclopyr killed it very dead. Fast forward to today and baby fescue seedlings are sprouting there right now - awe, very cute.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Delmarva Keith said:


> Here is the "after" pic. I'm almost positive it was triv. When alive, it was a dense, thin bladed patch of grass of lighter color. Not necessarily unattractive but didn't match my fescue. I replanted the spot and it was indeed shallow rooted, super easy to just chew up to get the new seed in the ground. Seems like it had to be triv. Can't think of what else it could have been. Anyway, whatever it was, Tenacity plus triclopyr killed it very dead. Fast forward to today and baby fescue seedlings are sprouting there right now - awe, very cute.


Great to hear! Did you notice that there was a quicker kill time? Did it still hold its selective herbicide properties when you combined both products together?


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> Delmarva Keith said:
> 
> 
> > Here is the "after" pic. I'm almost positive it was triv. When alive, it was a dense, thin bladed patch of grass of lighter color. Not necessarily unattractive but didn't match my fescue. I replanted the spot and it was indeed shallow rooted, super easy to just chew up to get the new seed in the ground. Seems like it had to be triv. Can't think of what else it could have been. Anyway, whatever it was, Tenacity plus triclopyr killed it very dead. Fast forward to today and baby fescue seedlings are sprouting there right now - awe, very cute.
> ...


Kill time - was sprayed on 8/20 and the photo was taken on 8/31. Note that weather was hot so stress on the shallow rooted triv was high. For selectivity, you can see the healthy tall fescue surrounding the dead triv. No damage. I have bleached tall fescue that was under stress (from being disturbed - dug up and replaced for some irrigation lines), but if it's healthy, it doesn't flinch.


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## Jdaniel611 (Aug 12, 2018)

Here is how I handled it this year. I am also from central Mass.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Thanks for sharing. 11 days is a pretty quick kill. The fact that adding both the chemicals together and it still retains its selective properties is a positive factor.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Delmarva Keith

Do you mind sharing a few things?

What was your mixture for 1k sq ft of both products? - I'm worried of over doing it

Did you blanket spray your entire lawn or spot spray?

What type of grass do you currently have? Did you notice any residual damage/kill to your desired grass? I've got a mix of KBG, PRG and fescue. I'm sure the fescue might get hit hard with it. Trying to understand if my grass types would be effected

Did you dig up the dead Poa or just scalp it for seed prep?

Sorry for the questionaire but I'm intrigued by this method. I have a new bottle of tenacity that I'd like to use next year for reseeding and potentially killing this crap.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> Delmarva Keith
> 
> Do you mind sharing a few things?
> 
> ...


Mix was full label rates for both products. Off the top of my head that's 8 oz per acre (5.4 ml per 1,000) of Tenacity and 0.75 oz per 1,000 triclopyr ester, plus NIS. I was going after some bermuda to suppress it for an upcoming overseed and whileI was at it spot hit this patch of what I think was triv plus some bentgrass in yet another area at the same time.

It was a blanket spray of about 10,000 sq ft of an area with a lot of bermuda in it and then I spot sprayed here and there in other areas with leftovers in the tank. The spot pictured was one of those spot spray areas.

The (live) grass on that lawn area pictured is 100% TTTF. There was no noticable damage or stress to the fescue.

Seed prep was broadcast seed and then use a garden weasel to work the seed into that area. It doesn't really come across in the photo but the patch was at a corner of the property next to a road. It isn't possible to use machinery in the corners so I always work those types of areas in with a garden weasel. The dead crap sort of floats to the top and is left as "mulch" cover.

Tenacity alone and Tenacity plus triclopyr kill an amazing array of weeds. I've done blanket sprays of Tenacity alone as part of overseed prep and it does an incredible job. It does what it says it does.


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## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

Delmarva Keith said:


> Mix was full label rates for both products. Off the top of my head that's 8 oz per acre (5.4 ml per 1,000) of Tenacity and 0.75 oz per 1,000 triclopyr ester, plus NIS. I was going after some bermuda to suppress it for an upcoming overseed and whileI was at it spot hit this patch of what I think was triv plus some bentgrass in yet another area at the same time.
> 
> It was a blanket spray of about 10,000 sq ft of an area with a lot of bermuda in it and then I spot sprayed here and there in other areas with leftovers in the tank. The spot pictured was one of those spot spray areas.
> 
> ...


Can you do all of us triv sufferers a favor and recheck the area next season and give us an update? My fear is that it just forced the triv into dormancy and it will return next year. That did not stop me from ordering Triclopyr to have on hand when temps are more suitable for a good kill.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Miggity said:


> Delmarva Keith said:
> 
> 
> > Mix was full label rates for both products. Off the top of my head that's 8 oz per acre (5.4 ml per 1,000) of Tenacity and 0.75 oz per 1,000 triclopyr ester, plus NIS. I was going after some bermuda to suppress it for an upcoming overseed and whileI was at it spot hit this patch of what I think was triv plus some bentgrass in yet another area at the same time.
> ...


Will do. :thumbup: if it does the zombie won't die routine and comes back next year, it gets gly next Fall. I'm lucky it's only the one small patch.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Thanks for the info man. I'm in the same boat. I'd like to see if this stuff will really destroy it. If not, good ol glypho will take care of that. I really like the selective properties that the combo holds which is why I'm leaving towards this.
Fingers crossed this does the trick


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## MassHole (Jun 27, 2018)

So option 2 seems to have merit... Interesting...


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

MassHole said:


> So option 2 seems to have merit... Interesting...


Merit will help with insect problems but not sure it will do anything to poa triv.

Sorry that was a bad joke :lol:


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> Thanks for the info man. I'm in the same boat. I'd like to see if this stuff will really destroy it. If not, good ol glypho will take care of that. I really like the selective properties that the combo holds which is why I'm leaving towards this.
> Fingers crossed this does the trick


+1, I'd like to ADD my GRATITUDE as, due to the steep slopes and grades I am situated on, even a partial reno is not a practical option (weather coming out of the adjacent mountains is very unpredictable; and, one or more heavy rainfalls after killing surface vegetation could resort in disaster, erasing nearly all topsoil in the blink of an eye. I've already seen it happen to numerous others) so, this combo could be a real saver!!! :thumbup:


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Bad news. Some of the triv is already coming back. 

I didn't have my phone on me today and I won't be back at the location for at least a couple weeks. I'll try to remember to get another picture.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Delmarva Keith said:


> Bad news. Some of the triv is already coming back.
> 
> I didn't have my phone on me today and I won't be back at the location for at least a couple weeks. I'll try to remember to get another picture.


Oh boy! In all the areas you sprayed or in specific spots?


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

Delmarva Keith said:


> Bad news. Some of the triv is already coming back.


Ouch. I am committed; I ordered my Tenacity and Triclopyr (and some Dismiss which I needed anyway) yesterday. (Guess I'm batting 1,000 this week :roll: - contributed $50 to the NRA-ILA this past Thursday and this evening get notice about their "12 Gun Giveaway Raffle"  ... I went ahead and bought $60 worth of tickets! :lol:

'Tis okay as the combo has been reported effective on some other "Krypton-like" grassy weeds (I have broadleafs so under control I'd be yawning, were it not for these grassy weeds from Hades!)

I AM GOING TO HEED g-man's CAUTION AS TO THE CRITICAL NEED FOR STRICT CONSISTENCY IN SPRAY APP'ing THIS COMBO (I have one particular nozzle that I set aside for such app.s!)

And, not only good luck but, please do keep us posted! :thumbup:


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Came back in the one spot I had it but definitely not as much as was there. Have new baby grass in the spot so I can't spray again right now. I may hand pull it next time I'm there.

I'll spray the combo again in Spring and see what happens. Definitely seemed to have knocked it back quite a bit. It sure looked dead to me (as is seen in the earlier photo) but apparently not completely dead.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Delmarva Keith said:


> Came back in the one spot I had it but definitely not as much as was there. Have new baby grass in the spot so I can't spray again right now. I may hand pull it next time I'm there.
> 
> I'll spray the combo again in Spring and see what happens. Definitely seemed to have knocked it back quite a bit. It sure looked dead to me (as is seen in the earlier photo) but apparently not completely dead


Do you by chance have a picture of it? This stuff is awful. The world can end and this stuff would still be growing!


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> Delmarva Keith said:
> 
> 
> > Came back in the one spot I had it but definitely not as much as was there. Have new baby grass in the spot so I can't spray again right now. I may hand pull it next time I'm there.
> ...


No pics - forgot my phone. I'll be back there in a couple weeks. Will get pics.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

MassHole said:


> 1. Tenacity spot spray this fall (late Oct, early Nov) then triple spray starting April 15, every 2 weeks


I'm still pretty sure I killed some of my patches last Fall doing this. The only issues were, it killed some of the good grass too, and there was more Triv outside those patches waiting for the right conditions, so it came back in other places after the cool/wet Fall/Winter/Spring. I think I did like 4 or 5 apps, maybe more. I went slightly over the yearly max.


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## Jonslawn (Apr 30, 2021)

ken-n-nancy said:


> HomerGuy said:
> 
> 
> > Can Tenacity be used as a "marker" to identify poa triv? What I mean is, will Tenacity bleach poa triv, which would then highlight the areas to be sprayed with glyphosate?
> ...


Just read your approach. was thinking the same thing but how long after hitting the triv with glyppho did you wait to put down sod?


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