# Breaking the barrier - seeding after pre-emergent



## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

After seeing just how little good quality bermuda I have coming in this spring I'm leaning towards seeding an improved variety around June 1. Problem is *I applied Prodiamine and Simazine pre-emergent in Feb and March at 1/2 annual max rate.*

*Will another kill plus heavy, heavy, heavy aeration followed by smoothing with a drag mat (something I had planned to do anyway for leveling purposes) allow me to get good germination if I plant early June? * @Mightyquinn I know you suggested dethaching but my yard is so bare it's not worth doing. I'd plant with a slice seeder at 1/4" depth and run temporary irrigation.


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I think a verticut/dethatching in 2 directions would be more beneficial than a heavy, heavy, heavy aeration and then smoothing with a drag mat and would probably be less work. How did you plan on aerating?


----------



## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> I think a verticut/dethatching in 2 directions would be more beneficial than a heavy, heavy, heavy aeration and then smoothing with a drag mat and would probably be less work. How did you plan on aerating?


Was going to rent this machine for 8 hrs and go nuts. How do you seed in conjunction with verticutting? Before/after? Does it need to be rolled after or dragging alone fine?


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I guess if you had a ride on aerator that would be a little less work  I would drag the area after aerating to get everything level and smooth and then seed and then go over the area with a roller or a very light raking. You might want to ask @J_nick or @Tellycoleman on what they did specifically as they both had very successful seeding jobs.


----------



## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

I can verify that 50+ year old common Bermuda cut with a Greensmaster 1000 at .75" with PGR looks fantastic. Yes Latitude 36 looks better, but not the $750 per 500 sq ft. renovation cost my company charges better.


----------



## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

high leverage said:


> I can verify that 50+ year old common Bermuda cut with a Greensmaster 1000 at .75" with PGR looks fantastic. Yes Latitude 36 looks better, but not the $750 per 500 sq ft. renovation cost my company charges better.


Ok I'm going to post some current photos tomorrow. I think I have Wrangler Bermuda in large areas. You guys can advise on what you would do.


----------



## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

high leverage said:


> I can verify that 50+ year old common Bermuda cut with a Greensmaster 1000 at .75" with PGR looks fantastic. Yes Latitude 36 looks better, but not the $750 per 500 sq ft. renovation cost my company charges better.


Ok I'm going to post some current photos tomorrow. I think I have Wrangler Bermuda in large areas. You guys can advise on what you would do.


----------



## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

cglarsen said:


> high leverage said:
> 
> 
> > I can verify that 50+ year old common Bermuda cut with a Greensmaster 1000 at .75" with PGR looks fantastic. Yes Latitude 36 looks better, but not the $750 per 500 sq ft. renovation cost my company charges better.
> ...


Many others will agree. A reel mower and PGR turn a good lawn into the fairway at the local country club. Easy when you have 5000 sq. ft. expensive when you have 43.560 sd ft.


----------



## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

high leverage said:


> I can verify that 50+ year old common Bermuda cut with a Greensmaster 1000 at .75" with PGR looks fantastic. Yes Latitude 36 looks better, but not the $750 per 500 sq ft. renovation cost my company charges better.


I agree. @cglarsen you are just in your first spring going to Bermuda. Our temps are no where high enough for the Bermuda to really take off. I was lucky last year that I still had fescue mixed in to mask the Bermuda while it spread. Plus I didn't start mowing lower till June when the Bermuda was really happy. It's your call. But I would give it one season and if your not happy then plan a full Reno next summer.


----------



## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

You guys are the calm to my storm.....but seriously, this yard is beyond ugly right now. Neighbors are wondering what the heck I'm doing.

Lawn is about 50% dirt. 


20% Wild bermuda?


20% Normal looking common bermuda


10% Nut sedge? 
Larry, Moe & Curly


I can kill the nut sedge but that huge stuff on the left hand side looks to becoming more and more dominant. What is it?


----------



## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

My common Bermuda looks more like the wild Bermuda you show. The common you show looks finer bladed than mine. My initial growth this spring had large blades but after a couple mows it settled down and has more Bermuda looking blades.

That is a lot of dirt. It looks like what Bermuda you have needs to be cut down. This will encourage it to spread. With that much bare dirt you could look at buying less sod and plugging the yard. Several members here have plugged larger areas and the results were very nice.


----------



## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

TN Hawkeye said:


> My common Bermuda looks more like the wild Bermuda you show. The common you show looks finer bladed than mine. My initial growth this spring had large blades but after a couple mows it settled down and has more Bermuda looking blades.
> 
> That is a lot of dirt. It looks like what Bermuda you have needs to be cut down. This will encourage it to spread. With that much bare dirt you could look at buying less sod and plugging the yard. Several members here have plugged larger areas and the results were very nice.


Yeah I underestimate how much bermuda was in the old lawn. Most of those dirt areas were crabgrass infestations. I cut it this afternoon so I hope mine reacts like yours and gets a little finer. I am considering plugging and sprigging if nothing comes up to fill in the area. A pallet of sod makes a hell of a lot of plugs.


----------



## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

cglarsen said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
> 
> 
> > My common Bermuda looks more like the wild Bermuda you show. The common you show looks finer bladed than mine. My initial growth this spring had large blades but after a couple mows it settled down and has more Bermuda looking blades.
> ...


I don't want to give you any bad advice. I really don't know much about this whole lawn game. I completely understand wanting to make things look better now. Hopefully some people that are a lot more knowledgeable than me will chime in. My lawn looks like crap right now. I'm hoping as temps rise that it will fill in. But I really hope you don't care what the neighbors think. It's your lawn. As long as you can see what it can be, who the hell cares what they see it as now.


----------



## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

@TN Hawkeye True, I don't really care what they think but I do hate being wrong about what I had/have and how fast it would fill in - mainly because I don't want to lose my top soil with the overabundance of rain we are getting.

How does yours look currently for comparison sake? You had nice full coverage by the end of last year.


----------



## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

cglarsen said:


> @TN Hawkeye True, I don't really care what they think but I do hate being wrong about what I had/have and how fast it would fill in - mainly because I don't want to lose my top soil with the overabundance of rain we are getting.
> 
> How does yours look currently for comparison sake? You had nice full coverage by the end of last year.


I'll go get a picture in a minute. I had my son mow it short yesterday to try to get it to spread. I've got some areas that are nicely green and full but a lot of areas that are still just waking up. We've had upper 70s followed by freeze warnings so it isn't really in its comfort zone yet.


----------



## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

@TN Hawkeye That's going to look really nice this year - well done. I'm looking into plugging to help speed up my process.


----------



## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

cglarsen said:


> @TN Hawkeye That's going to look really nice this year - well done. I'm looking into plugging to help speed up my process.


If you plug you will have to kill off what you have. I just hate for you to spend that kind of money not knowing if what you have will spread enough by seasons end.


----------



## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

TN Hawkeye said:


> cglarsen said:
> 
> 
> > @TN Hawkeye That's going to look really nice this year - well done. I'm looking into plugging to help speed up my process.
> ...


I will probably just plug and sod some of the largest barren areas and see how it goes. One pallet of Tiftuf is 450 SF and about $270 at supersod. It's a bit more shade tolerant too they say. Instead of spending that money on seed I'll just get a pallet and patch bare spots.


----------

