# jrubb42's Going Low Pt II/Renovation - 2021



## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Didn't take many early season photos but had a couple shots of my dormant bentgrass issue.





Dethatched and mowed this last weekend and the yard is already miles in front of where it started last year. Ready for a good year.











I ripped out as much dormant bentgrass as possible and the plan is to seed those areas this spring as well as hit the yard with tenacity to get any other bentgrass out. Still debating about what I should do with pre-emergent because of this. I know I have other areas of bentgrass, I just don't know how big they are. I don't want to hit everything with pre emergent and not be able to seed big areas of dead bentgrass that I didn't know existed.

I'll get more pics tomorrow since I know I started this now.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Looking great... I look forward to following your Journal for another year!


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## mowww (Jan 16, 2018)

@jrubb42 Looking good, nice start to the year. Pup is loving it too. Looking forward to following things.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Thanks @Stuofsci02 and @mowww. Forgot how much I loved doing lawn work. So weird. Lol


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## SumBeach35 (Jul 11, 2019)

Looking good so far. Are you doing the multiple low rate tenacity apps for bentgrass?


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

SumBeach35 said:


> Looking good so far. Are you doing the multiple low rate tenacity apps for bentgrass?


Thanks man. Yeah, my plan is to follow the label for Bentgrass. I'm just waiting for everything to come out of dormancy before putting down my first app. Any other suggestions other than what's on the label?

Also, I'll be hitting you up for some FEature in the next week or two!


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## weirj55 (Apr 13, 2020)

Lawn is looking great for this early! I too went low last year, but not until the end of the mowing season. Looking forward to seeing more of your posts this year. Good luck with your bentgrass removal.


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## SumBeach35 (Jul 11, 2019)

jrubb42 said:


> SumBeach35 said:
> 
> 
> > Looking good so far. Are you doing the multiple low rate tenacity apps for bentgrass?
> ...


I have not had to tackle bent yet. I am not sure if i would go the tenacity route or just do gly.

I have a good stock of FEature, ready when you are!


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Looks like a lawn that will kill butt this season!


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

I'm really slacking on photos, but the yard is looking great so far. Super dark compared to everyone else's around here.

This weekend I took soil samples that I'm sending off tomorrow, put down bag rate of milorganite, 4 g/m of prodiamine, and 0.23 lbs of quick release N.

Snapped one photo of the front yard after our walk tonight. It needs a mow and I'm planning on doing that tomorrow.



As for the backyard... I'm planning on doing more with it this year. I'm planning on reel mowing the back with a manual reel mower for the season and going to see how it goes. Probably going to keep it at 3/4 of an inch. Right now it's kind of a mess and I'll begin the process of taking it low this week. I have plenty of experience with this after last year's debacle. Haha. Some issues I see with reel mowing in the back are still with the mole issues I have back there. I killed around 10 of them last year but still ended up with some dirt mounds after the snow melted, which means there's at least one still kicking. With moles comes very uneven terrain from all of the tunneling, so I'm a little nervous about that. It's pretty dang bumpy in some spots.

Also the irrigation coverage in the backyard is not great. I'm going to see what I can do to cover what I can...with what I have and fix that issue in the future. We have some other projects in the back that take precedence over that.

I should have it scalped and dethatched within the next two days.

The test plot area looks decent compared the rest of the backyard. As far what came out of winter looking the best... It would probably be the bluebank/bewitched/mazama mix. With mazama being in second. Everest looked pretty bad with most of it having a pretty strong brown tint to it (other than a dog pee spot, that spot looks insanely good!).


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Well I decided to pull the trigger on doing some video of my experiences in the lawn.

Let me know what you guys think!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WytO-en5kMw


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## mribbens (Jul 13, 2018)

Great video, like your quality is that of a TV show!!!


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Thanks @mribbens! I do video production for a living so that helps lol. It is soooo much harder doing it by yourself, while filming yourself though. I wish I could up the production value even more, but it is what it is with a one man production. Haha. Thanks for checking it out!


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## SumBeach35 (Jul 11, 2019)

Great video, interested to see your backyard progress this season.


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## The Lawn Monk (Mar 15, 2021)

Your video was awesome man, I followed your journal last year and learned a ton. You were one of the reasons I ended up getting a Greensmaster. Can't wait to follow along again this season!


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## weirj55 (Apr 13, 2020)

Sweet work on the video - funny thing, I too am a video professional by trade. I have thought about doing lawn videos too, but have held back for much the same reasons as you mentioned. Congrats on taking the step!

I'm thinking about rigging my house for reel mowing/lawn care live streams!

Lawn is looking great! Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

@SumBeach35 Thanks man. I'm curious of how the back is going to turn out also. It is super bumpy towards the back because of mole tunnels and the irrigation coverage isn't the greatest back there..I appreciate you checking the video out.

@The Lawn Monk Thanks! I'm glad you got to learn from all of my mistakes so you didn't have to live through them :lol: How are you liking the reel mowing?

@weirj55 Thanks, I've been debating on it for awhile and finally just said screw it. I don't have much time on my hands as it is...and now I'm trying to talk to a camera and set up semi decent shots while working on the yard. Probably not the smartest thing I could've done. But the feedback has been great!

I'd definitely be interested in checking out some of your live streams if you do them. That sounds much easier than what I'm doing.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Great video... it's always nice to see others doing the same things and getting results...


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## mribbens (Jul 13, 2018)

jrubb42 said:


> Thanks @mribbens! I do video production for a living so that helps lol. It is soooo much harder doing it by yourself, while filming yourself though. I wish I could up the production value even more, but it is what it is with a one man production. Haha. Thanks for checking it out!


So with going low, I have dethatched an area 3X last season and once already this year, but the area is still super thick and spongy, and looks ugly. I have the Sun Joe as well, should I lower even more and get that crap out of there? I have lowered my greens mower to just under 3/4, from 7/8, and the plan is to go down to 1/2. I am fine with it looking gross for a few weeks, not an issue, just wasn't sure exactly how to go about this. I will take pics this week for you.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

mribbens said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks @mribbens! I do video production for a living so that helps lol. It is soooo much harder doing it by yourself, while filming yourself though. I wish I could up the production value even more, but it is what it is with a one man production. Haha. Thanks for checking it out!
> ...


Yeah I would have to see photos to know exactly what you're dealing with. Is this year your first time going low with your grass? If so, you want to scalp about a 1/2 inch below your intended HOC, then dethatch, and then cut at the scalping height again.

You might not have to dethatch again if most of that dead material is already out of there, but that's the order I do things in. It's just very important to scalp below your intended HOC to give your grass room to recover and grow from that scalping point. Today is 6 days from doing those steps in my backyard and it's already recovering pretty well with less than ideal weather (no sun and below ideal temps).


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## mribbens (Jul 13, 2018)

Yes, that area is the first going low, my front yard has been trained sub 1 inch for a whole year. I will take the Sun Joe out there and heavily dethatch that area again, then scalp down to 1/2. I will send you pics of before and after. My other small issue is I had to install a new bedknife on my mower and now it's not cutting great, leaving stragglers after a double cut and not cutting paper perfectly across the reel. Might need a relief grind on the reel. Thank you!


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## hammerhead (May 14, 2019)

Awesome. Great content. You also look very confident in front of the camera. This might be the best first video on lawn youtube ever. Subscribed.


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## wizardstephen (Sep 21, 2018)

Subscribed! Great video. I really appreciated the camera and editing quality as well. I've been telling myself to make videos in the lawn, strictly for the gratification of making content. Out of curiosity, what cameras and microphone setup did you use?


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

@mribbens how did the scalp go? Is it recovering well?

@hammerhead thanks for the compliments man. Very appreciative of those. Hoping to keep the content coming all summer!

@wizardstephen thanks for noticing the production that goes into the video. It is super time consuming but worth it when it's all done. Not going to lie, I'm kind of addicted already. I have a video I'm dropping tomorrow and another one during the week. Both pretty much complete already!

As far as gear goes I use an Ursa Mini 4.6k for the interviews and a Panasonic GH5s for in the yard. Just quicker to move around with.

Microphone I use a Rode videomic pro and a audio Technica at875r.

That little Rode mic is a beast for doing things outside. I thought I was doing to have to wear a lav mic all the time but that thing picks up everything so I don't need to.

Let me know if you need any help with gear! Thanks for subscribing!


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Made a new video showing my experiences of maintaining short grass vs. long grass.

https://youtu.be/pAzs9zzwAlc


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Whaattt!?!? New YTer on the block! Man, Jay...let the grass, do videos. This looks professional! Subscribed.


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## hammerhead (May 14, 2019)

OK, I think we are ready for at least weekly content now 
Great video again! Keep it up!


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

@Babameca 😂😂 thanks brother!

@hammerhead thanks man! Tell that to my wife. She's already sick of me running around with the camera...making the yard work take twice as long. Haha. I'm honestly falling in love with doing it though. I'm glad people are enjoying the content! Consistently putting out content is definitely going to be the hard part. It does add a lot of work to an already packed schedule.


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## mribbens (Jul 13, 2018)

jrubb42 said:


> @mribbens how did the scalp go? Is it recovering well?
> 
> Well, I scalped at .70, then dethatched 3X ways, then bagged mowed all of the stuff up, and it's ugly, like super ugly. We are going to be a little cold this week, so I am thinking not much is gonna happen until temps recover on Thursday and Friday. I will try and take pics, but it's not pretty.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Really enjoyed this one. This is brand new content for youtube as far as I know. I've never seen someone go through all the pros and cons of short vs tall. Great work again!


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

bf7 said:


> Really enjoyed this one. This is brand new content for youtube as far as I know. I've never seen someone go through all the pros and cons of short vs tall. Great work again!


Thanks man. Glad you enjoyed it! Hopefully I can keep the content rolling.. that one took up some time, lol.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Newest video. I'm hoping to start doing more "journal" type things in these videos. Especially with the front yard.

https://youtu.be/23AdwZKeD8g


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

Great vid, keep it up. Love the hype intro!


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

You have the same Amazon basics scale that I use for my spray apps.. if you had a homer bucket I'd feel like I was watching myself..


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Awesome man as commented on your YT channel. Sent you a PM btw . I need to see more content from you. Man, that voice...


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

You kept mentioning dog pee spots near the beginning of your video, but I couldn't see any on your lawn... What were you referring to?? 

Love the intro, it hooked me in well. Great vid, keep it up :thumbup:


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## occamsrzr (Apr 27, 2020)

Great vid, man. I haven't been able to find many vids on spraying Urea. Definitely sets you apart from the rest of the LawnTube pack. Looking forward to the next one.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Thanks fellas! I appreciate all the feedback!


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Dude! Look who is back and back in action! Blown away that I'm just now catching this journal, and even more blown away by the content. Great videos, Jay. I love your promoting $30 fert vs. some product that's endorsed in some capacity. Truly wish you the best of luck, and perhaps one day you will be promoting your own products. &#128521;&#128077;&#127995;

I think the best piece of info I got was "whatever you let annoy you in your grass is what will annoy you". This helped me come to terms with not having the absolute most perfect lawn.

I'll stop the rant, but glad to catch ya, and I'll be subscribing for sure.


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

Binge watched all your YouTube videos last night. Great content. Do you have any experience using FAS vs Feature for foliar iron? Just wondering why a lot of people seem to prefer using the latter.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Dude love the YouTube content and I do think you've found a good niche.

You aren't catering to people just getting into the game but helping many who want to step their game up that come to these boards for advice!


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

So I've been so busy with the YouTube channel, I decided to step away from my TLF lawn journal for the year…but I've realized how much I miss the interaction and documentation through here rather than YouTube, so I'm going to try to catch up. The nice part about this is I have plenty of photos from all of the footage I've been taking while documenting my progress.

For those of you that don't know, I decided to renovate 6,000 sq ft of my front lawn. I decided to go with a Mazama, Everest, and Bluebank blend. I have mono test plots of all three in my back yard and they all look pretty similar (Bluebank looks a little more blue than the other two). Twin City seed has awesome KBG prices right now and free shipping. Way cheaper than anything else I've seen online. All blue and gold tag quality.

July 10th - First Gly App.

July 16th - Dethatched enitre lawn two different ways. Lawn wasn't completely dead yet, but we were going to put down so much topsoil and was planning to gly again that I wasn't worried about it. Anything that would survive would be hit with gly again.



July 17th- I brought in 15 yards of 50/50 sand and topsoil. I was told that the topsoil was screened at 3mm. DEFINITELY was not the case... didn't realize until we were already spreading it. At that point we were at the point of no return. It is what it is. Here are some photos of the rocks and pebbles that were everywhere.







Btw. For anyone doing a reno. Put a sign out similar to this. EVERY SINGLE PERSON that walks by and reads it, walks away laughing. If I'm outside, someone always says something about the sign and not the lawn. Saves having to repeat the same story over and over again.

I called in the troops for this project. , @MNLawnGuy1980 and another buddy from HS. My wife helped with leveling, filming, and watching the kids. It took us 1.5 days to spread everything. Holy crap was it a lot of work and very messy. We were all filled with dirt from head to toe after we were finished each day. Literally poured dirt out of the kids shoe's when were done. Lol.

We used the gorilla carts to dump everything, garden rakes to knock down the piles, and a steel drag from my neighbor to spread everything out. This drag was a life saver. I couldn't have imagined doing all of this by hand. I'd say I was extremely please with how level we got everything compared to what it was.



















Here is the video from this whole process: 




After this, I watered, watered, and watered some more.. Needed to get up as many weeds as possible.

July 30th - 2nd and final gly application

July 31st - Seed down day. This. was. A LOT. of. work.

I started out by scarifying the entire renovation area 2 different ways with the Sun Joe Scarifier. I've read multiple journals that have done this and all of them got great germination results in the ruts the scarifier created.





After this I put down seed in the screaming wind with a hand spreader. I was so pissed about the wind while doing this. The weather called for 8mph winds and it felt like gusts of 20+ mph at times. I tried my best to get it all down evenly and all things considered, I think I did.







After that, I raked in all of the seed. My God, this was one of the worst steps. My back was shot after this. Raking 6000 sq ft shouldn't have felt as bad as it did. I should've invested in a bigger rake that worked better than the one I had on hand. After that I rolled all of the seed in two separate ways with the GM1000.







End of day 1 of Seed Down

August 1st - I put down tenacity and starter fert and then started to put down my cover. This is where I took a completely unorthodox approach to my renovation. I decided to put down Futerra Netless Erosion Blankets on my entire 6000 sq ft of renovation. My motto for this was "Failure is NOT an Option". We've been in an extreme drought all year and there was zero rain in the forecast for the next 10 days, but I know how this usually works. I could see a pop up storm coming through and demolishing all of this work, so I took the extremely cautious approach and laid them down.

They cover 600 sq ft so I needed 10 of these blankets. The forecast again called for light wind and guess what? 20+mph wind gusts again. These things are a PITA putting down with wind. They blow all over the place. So it took me 6+ hours to put them all down. NO BREAKS. I was dead.









Here is the complete seed down video:   https://youtu.be/OglOfjLm2N4

August 6 - GERMINATION!!!! Had to look VERY hard. But I found a couple of random blades coming up.





August 8th - Widespread Germination!









August 15th - Which brings us up to date. Things are looking great. I have pretty even coverage everywhere. The property lines look a little thin in areas, but if I rub my hands an inch over the blankets I can feel plenty of random grass blades, so there's grass there. Just not as full as the middle of the lawn.

Some pros and cons of the blankets:

Pros:

Germination is way better than it was in the back test plots last year with Peat Moss.

They hold water VERY well.

We've had a couple of moderate rain falls (imagine that with the extended forecast that called for none) and nothing has moved. We barely got missed by a couple of HUGE downpours.

Cons:

Deciding when/if to pull them up. I tried pulling some of them up a little bit tonight and baby seedlings come with the blankets. I would say about 10% of them would come up with the blanket if I was to completely take them off. So I'm going to let the grass establish a bit more before doing so.

It's hard to tell what areas have good coverage and what areas do not. If you peel up the blankets there is a ton of grass underneath that has germinated that you cannot see without pulling up the blankets. So I'm going to have to wait to see where my thin areas are.

I had no significant downpours so it seems like a waste of money, energy, and a nuisance going forward. Now hindsight is 20/20. If I would've been obliterated by storms I would've looked back and patted myself on the back, but now, not so much. They were a great form of insurance, but just like any other insurance - if nothing happens it's a complete waste of money.

These photos do not do the germination justice. Looks way more full and even in person.















Overall, I'm happy right now. And happy to be back on the forum!


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Wow! So much progress in one update!

Looking really good. I have to say the sun joe scarifier, then seed, then roll is the way to go - looks like it's working great for you too.

I might have to steal the sign idea for when I do my front yard :lol:


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

That sign is gold! Wish I would have had it for my recent Reno. Great work, looks like great germination as well. Makes me wish I would have used my scarifier prior to tossing seed.


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

Good to have you back posting. You've been putting out great content on YT and the reno is looking great! I cannot even imagine how time consuming all of that is.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It is cool to see the lines from the scarifier in the germinated seed. Seed to soil contact is key.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Great results so far. I think you were right in going with the blankets even though they werent needed. Better safe than sorry!

I love the beginning of the video with your wife hammering the sign in!


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## MNLawnGuy1980 (May 10, 2019)

Looks great @jrubb42...have you considered leaving the blankets on the lawn, looks kind of cool, start a trend!


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## Robs92k (May 9, 2021)

Man, looks great!!

I started lifting my blankets at about 2". You're going to pull out material, but it's worth it. The last rows I took down already had moss…they hold in a LOT of moisture particularly in the low areas.

Also if you used the same netting as mine, the plastic running lines of the blankets will actually thread into the roots…I still have lines I pull out of the turf today.

Works well, but def requires extra love and work.

Keep posting, good luck…love it!


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## Bob Loblawn (Apr 10, 2020)

Looks awesome and love that sign! I'm testing out a reno in our backyard but if it goes well will do the front- will need that sign.

Looking forward to following along and best of luck!


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Thanks for all of the replies guys! I appreciate all the feedback! Since most of you commented on the sign, I got it custom made for like $20 at smartsign.com if any of you interested for any future renovations :lol:

@Robs92k When you say I'm going to "pull out material" do you mean grass out of the blankets? I'm actually going on vacation tomorrow and will not be back until Friday. My plan was to maybe take them off once I'm back. That will be 20 DAG.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

> I'm actually going on vacation tomorrow and will not be back until Friday.


In the words of @g-man

"brave"


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

davegravy said:


> > I'm actually going on vacation tomorrow and will not be back until Friday.
> 
> 
> In the words of @g-man
> ...


😂😂.. That's what the blankets were for. Only thing that could creep up on me at this point is fungus. I'm 50/50 on throwing down propi before I leave. Temps are about to get much cooler and I haven't had any issues yet.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

With the luck I've had in my reno so far I have been inspired by you and sourced 3 blankets last minute out of Iowa. Praying they make it here in time!


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

lbb091919 said:


> With the luck I've had in my reno so far I have been inspired by you and sourced 3 blankets last minute out of Iowa. Praying they make it here in time!


Im learning that taking them off is gonna be a PITA. Just warning you, lol. The insurance can't be beat though.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@davegravy I left for a week of a vacation, the day after seeding. No blankets, hand made irrigation, no remote control over timers.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

10 DAG - We have tillering. Still haven't put anything on the Reno at all other than water. Stopped my night watering. Leaving for vacation tomorrow morning and won't be back until next Friday. Here's to no fungus issues when I get back 🤞. Didn't realize we have three days left in the 90s and then we drop down to high 70s and low 80s. Might throw some urea on before I leave tomorrow morning. We'll see how much time I have.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

That's a really nice job! I look forward to more YouTube content.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Love the journal updates and YT content!

I'd pass on pushing it with urea before 90 degree temps and a vacation!


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Thanks @Jeff_MI84 and @JerseyGreens!

I should've mentioned that it's next Friday when I get back, not this Friday. So well over a week. You're probably right @JerseyGreens on the Urea. Just figured with how much water it gets all day it shouldn't have any issues. I just want to see it alot more full when I get back :lol:


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## Robs92k (May 9, 2021)

jrubb42 said:


> Thanks for all of the replies guys! I appreciate all the feedback! Since most of you commented on the sign, I got it custom made for like $20 at smartsign.com if any of you interested for any future renovations :lol:
> 
> @Robs92k When you say I'm going to "pull out material" do you mean grass out of the blankets? I'm actually going on vacation tomorrow and will not be back until Friday. My plan was to maybe take them off once I'm back. That will be 20 DAG.


Sorry it took me a while to get back…yes, grass will come up with the matting. I learned the hard way. My landscaper said it would deteriorate…then he told me they usually lift it on commercial jobs around 3".

That being said, the stringers will ultimately get buried under soil if you're irrigating. After a lot of trial and error, I found lifting the edges around the blankets, then extending your hand/arm underneath to lift straight up is the best way to not lose grass. This also helps make sure you find all the stakes.

The longer the grass, the more material you'll pick up…I might have miles of experience…lol


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## BBLOCK (Jun 8, 2020)

Bring all those over to my yard, kk thanks lol


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Today is 26 days after seed down. 19 DAG and for the most part things are looking good.

I've been gone on a 10 day vacation and the grass was ridiculously long in some areas. Other areas it barely has grown. Up to that point I have put nothing on the renovation, only water.

I gave it it's first mow yesterday with the manual reel between thunderstorms. It's been raining basically non stop for the last couple of days and will continue until Sunday morning. I threw down .25 lbs of urea yesterday in the rain because some areas definitely look it needs it, but all and all, it was probably a wasted application because of how much it has rained/will continue to rain.

The areas that are struggling the most are the areas that I filled in with a lot of new topsoil that I brought in. I'm not sure why. Also in one of those areas my seedlings are turning red/purple. Looks like some are dying off which is concerning. What would cause this? Lack of phos? I have no idea what the soil analysis is for the topsoil I brought in. Pictures below.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Looks great. I also have found with this and other Reno's that the areas with more soil do not germinate as well. Odd but seems to be true..


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Coverage looks great!

Love the shot of the germination up the tree trunk. What have your temps been like the last few days?


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## BBLOCK (Jun 8, 2020)

lbb091919 said:


> Coverage looks great!
> 
> Love the shot of the germination up the tree trunk. What have your temps been like the last few days?


@SNOWBOB11 is the master of growing grass up trees lol


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Fungus? More precisely PB. I think your covers started doing more damage than being beneficial...


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

BBLOCK said:


> lbb091919 said:
> 
> 
> > Coverage looks great!
> ...


Lol



Babameca said:


> Fungus? More precisely PB. I think your covers started doing more damage than being beneficial...


It's not Pythium Blight on Kentucky bluegrass.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Babameca said:


> Fungus? More precisely PB. I think your covers started doing more damage than being beneficial...


I have this concern as well since it's been high 90s since my seed down. These blankets do not dry out and hold the heat in like no other.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

W@SNOWBOB11 Where have you been? 
PB ON KBG. It is mine. No is not the PRG accounting for 20%. 20DAG rouhgly. Oh it has also been suggested by g-man...so.... :bandit: 
Cheers


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Babameca said:


> [email protected] Where have you been?
> PB ON KBG. It is mine. No is not the PRG accounting for 20%. 20DAG rouhgly. Oh it has also been suggested by g-man...so.... :bandit:
> Cheers
> 
> Do you mind re typing this? I have literally no idea what your say. Thanks


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Babameca said:


> [email protected] Where have you been?
> PB ON KBG. It is mine. No is not the PRG accounting for 20%. 20DAG rouhgly. Oh it has also been suggested by g-man...so.... :bandit:
> Cheers


Do you mind re typing this? I have literally no idea what your trying to say. Thanks


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@SNOWBOB11 I do. Whoever got it got it. Out of ink sorry. Hey and BTW Triv and bent are different grass types...like...very different.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Babameca said:


> Whoever got it got it.


My guess? No one did.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> > Whoever got it got it.
> ...


The owner of this journal did. Which is what I care about.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

@Babameca Chill. It's Friday. Don't be so up tight.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> @Babameca Chill. It's Friday. Don't be so up tight.


Was the Triv comment in @davegravy journal also on Friday? Damm I may have had a few many Fridays this week then.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Guys come on now...not sure how the topic of Fungus was even brought up as the OP didn't even inquire about such...

@jrubb42 - It's common for KBG seedlings to start out purple, perfectly normal. Only other reason could be heavy Tenacity spray in that area which will turn them white.

This looks great btw. 😃


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@JerseyGreens Tenacity was a further 2nd option, but they don't let me talk :lol:
I still bet on fungus. Not based on pics but on weather conditions and the mats. P deficiency at this stage is out of question.
And based on what hits most commonly new reno's fungus wise it may be PB. I am out


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Well that escalated quickly.. lol.

Thanks for all of the replies.

@lbb091919 I haven't had any fungus issues so far. I wouldn't sweat it too much. Matt from the Grass Factor thinks it's P deficiency. The purple is a tell tale sign he says. Even though I put down starter fert at seed down, he thinks it's locked up in the soil by something. Which makes sense because this is not happening in the areas that I put on minimal topsoil. The areas that have an inch plus of the newly added topsoil are germinating less, growing less, look unhealthy, and have these purple blades. I went out and examined closer and there are multiple spots with these purple blades. All in areas with 1+ inches of the new topsoil added. This topsoil is the gift that keeps on giving. Nothing but problems. The blankets are the least of my worries right now.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I talked with jrubb yesterday. I agree that the first thing to try is to give it some P. I suggested MAP since it will give him some N too. I would avoid any humic acid or iron or anything that could increase the pH.

Purple is not a sign of fungus.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

g-man said:


> I talked with jrubb yesterday. I agree that the first thing to try is to give it some P. I suggested MAP since it will give him some N too. I would avoid any humic acid or iron or anything that could increase the pH.
> 
> Purple is not a sign of fungus.


I talked with the guys from Twin City Seed and they also think it's P deficiency. They also think I may have over watered the new soil areas causing the nutrients to basically leach from the 50/50 sand topsoil.

They also said it could be one cultivar being affected more than the other 2. Being that there are healthy plants right next to the thin purple ones.

I threw down more starter fert because it's what I have on hand at the moment. It's a 24-25-4. It's supposed to rain about an inch this afternoon. Might be too much rain. We'll see. We get a break in rain for a few days after this storm coming.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

If you want to experiment a bit, go foliar with the P (bypass the soil). You can try with miracle grow for flowers in a small section. You should see an immediate response.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

g-man said:


> If you want to experiment a bit, go foliar with the P (bypass the soil). You can try with miracle grow for flowers in a small section. You should see an immediate response.


Awesome. I actually have some of that on hand. I'm gonna try it out. How cautious do I need to be while doing this?


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

I'll be interested to see the results of a foliar P spray. I would think without going crazy less cautious than spaying N on young grass.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think the rate for mature turf is 3 dry oz of P2O5/Ksqft. Since it is young, go half that. Target 1g/ksqft.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

There's a lot of N in the stuff I have. Makes me nervous to put that much foliar N on the baby grass. We're you thinking of a different product @g-man?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Not that one. Flowering one (15-30-15).


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

g-man said:


> Not that one. Flowering one (15-30-15).


I'll pick it up and try it out tomorrow. It's going to storm the rest of the night.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

23 DAG. 2nd mow. Starting to get that darker color on the right side. I'm starting to get excited. Can't wait to have consistent color throughout the entire lawn!


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## jwill (Jun 12, 2018)

Looking good! Nice work!


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

Looks awesome! Can hardly even tell blankets were ever on the ground.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Thanks @jwill and @jskierko! I swear it's starting to fill in by the hour. Here are some night shots.

My fingers are bleeding from picking metal stakes out of the ground. I used a metal detector to get most of them out of the main area. Thanks for the idea @lbb091919!


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

If she slacked the wine...you can remove the sign...maybe she did not.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

How is the purple grass?


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Soon, you won't even be able to see the blankets. Glad the metal detector idea worked. It gives me chills thinking about hitting one of those with the reel.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Wow.. really looking great. You are on the fast track now when things pick up steam. Also looking darker too!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Looks great man. Has to feel good after all the hard work!


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## mribbens (Jul 13, 2018)

Looks great


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## Robs92k (May 9, 2021)

Looks awesome jrubb!

*I still find those damn staples after a year. Really wish I would've done the metal detector trick. Nicely done.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

@Babameca she definitely didn't slack on the wine..but the sign will be coming down soon. I'm thinking after the first mow with the GM.

@lbb091919 @Stuofsci02 @Liquidstone @mribbens @Robs92k thanks fellas! I appreciate all of the support! Feels awesome to see it coming after the pout stage.

@g-man the purple seedlings are disappearing on their own. I thought they may be dying or dead but I can't find any dead grass. I think they're slowing turning green. The area that still has a large amount of them in is the area that I cut out the stump. I was nervous about putting miracle grow on that area because it is the thinnest part of my entire reno, but there's definitely enough grass there to fill in eventually. I just didn't want to kill it off. So what I did is test two small areas tonight where I could find a few areas of purple. I sprayed a rate of 2oz/m. I'll check in the morning and report back to see if I see any difference.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

@g-man it did nothing to the purple grass at the 2oz rate. Should I hit it again?

If my math is right, I'm only hitting it with .0375 lbs of P at the 2oz rate correct?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

2oz/ksqft of what?

The rate should be 3 dry oz of P2O5/Ksqft and it does need sun to process it.


----------



## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

g-man said:


> 2oz/ksqft of what?
> 
> The rate should be 3 dry oz of P2O5/Ksqft and it does need sun to process it.


I mixed 2 dry oz of 15-30-15/k. Sprayed foliar application last night. Obviously hasn't had any sun yet. I wanted to start light. I can always add more if I need to.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

2 X .30 = 0.6 dry oz of P2O5

To get 1.5 dry oz, use 5oz of the 15-30-15. The 3oz rate is for mature grass.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

g-man said:


> 2 X .30 = 0.6 dry oz of P2O5
> 
> To get 1.5 dry oz, use 5oz of the 15-30-15. The 3oz rate is for mature grass.


Got it. I thought you were giving me the rate of the product, not just the P2O5. I'll apply more in the next hour.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Still no change in the purple grass @g-man. The grass in the stump spot seems to be growing better though. Idk if it's because of the application or just starting to finally mature and grow better.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

34 days after seeding. My fallowing didn't work as good as I had hoped. Safe to say I have some weeds to take care of 😂


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Don't sweat the broadleafs. I remember being frustrated with them but they're not gonna be a problem much longer. If your tenacity doesn't take them out then next spring they won't stand a chance to 3way.

Be vigilant with grassy weeds OTOH. Hand pulling them now will save you loads of effort down the road!


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

davegravy said:


> Don't sweat the broadleafs. I remember being frustrated with them but they're not gonna be a problem much longer.
> 
> Be vigilant with grassy weeds OTOH. Hand pulling them now will save you loads of effort down the road!


Thanks for the advice Dave. I'll hunt down what I can find today. It's hard to see the grassy weeds because I've been cutting so often, but I know they're there.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Looks great. I have hand pulling the invaders. Congrats on the successful reno. Just a matter of time before it is all filled in.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Stuofsci02 said:


> Looks great. I have hand pulling the invaders. Congrats on the successful reno. Just a matter of time before it is all filled in.


Thanks Stu. Here is a photo of exactly 1 week before today. I'm pounding N and it's spreading and getting dark fast.

It's not a successful Reno until I totally avoid Triv and am not bombarded with Poa Annua. So take that back. Lol


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Explosion!!! Mine looked way 'weaker' at this stage, 2 years ago.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Wow.. what a difference. I am a week behind you. Do I get the same this week?


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Stuofsci02 said:


> Wow.. what a difference. I am a week behind you. Do I get the same this week?


I hope so. It's finally getting exciting. How much N have you been giving it? Yours looks about ready to break out.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow.. what a difference. I am a week behind you. Do I get the same this week?
> ...


I dropped 3lbs per k of 16-16-16 last Sunday. Will do the same next weekend, and then move to 30-0-4 after that with light foliar urea.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Stuofsci02 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> > Stuofsci02 said:
> ...


I may or may not have dropped 1.3 lbs of N in the last 8 days. I think that's helping :lol:


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> > jrubb42 said:
> ...


Awesome.. how did you apply? Foliar and granular?


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Stuofsci02 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> > Stuofsci02 said:
> ...


Half urea, half starter fert. Haven't applied foliar yet. I think I'm going to start that next week at a low rate.


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

Really impressive how much it's filled in. Nicely done. Maybe I missed it but what rate did you seed at?


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> > jrubb42 said:
> ...


Nice.. how much N from urea?


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Man that's dark already


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

@Zip-a-Dee-Zee thanks man! It's starting to get exciting. I put down seed at 2.5/k. My test plots did not come in this well at the same rate. They were way thinner at this point. Idk why this is coming in so thick. The blankets?

@Stuofsci02 urea was put down at 0.5 and 0.4 lbs/k. The start fert at 0.4/k.

@lbb091919 it really is. This is the exact reasons I went with these cultivars. They are all dark. Hoping it only improves with time!


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

jrubb42 said:


> @Zip-a-Dee-Zee thanks man! It's starting to get exciting. I put down seed at 2.5/k. My test plots did not come in this well at the same rate. They were way thinner at this point. Idk why this is coming in so thick. The blankets?
> 
> @Stuofsci02 urea was put down at 0.5 and 0.4 lbs/k. The start fert at 0.4/k.
> 
> @lbb091919 it really is. This is the exact reasons I went with these cultivars. They are all dark. Hoping it only improves with time!


Cool.. must have been tricky to spread evenly.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Stuofsci02 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> > @Zip-a-Dee-Zee thanks man! It's starting to get exciting. I put down seed at 2.5/k. My test plots did not come in this well at the same rate. They were way thinner at this point. Idk why this is coming in so thick. The blankets?
> ...


Oh for sure. I have a leopard spotted lawn in some areas. The more you do it, the more it disappears and starts to even out.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> > jrubb42 said:
> ...


Yeah. That's my concern. Spotty from the prills. I always do 2 lbs on the ground to try to avoid it..


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Come on man! We know you took the GM out this weekend due to peer pressure - show us some money shots!


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

JerseyGreens said:


> Come on man! We know you took the GM out this weekend due to peer pressure - show us some money shots!


+1


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

I ended up chickening out. I'm a wuss. I want more of my grass to be mature. The grass is growing too well to take two steps backwards by killing off some of the immature grass I have. To be continued.....

Here's a pic from today after my manual reel mow to hold you over 😂



Plus a night shot...


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## jwill (Jun 12, 2018)

Looks really good! That color is great!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

If the dog is already laying on the grass, you should be mowing that.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Still no mow?


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@g-man This is a well known YT tactic to attract viewers....


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Your YT video on the blankets was great! The next one should be of you running the GM on it. Sounds about the right time now...3 days since the manual reel mow.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

You captured some of the worst washouts of recent memory on that video. Nice content!

My vote...for $700... looking back it - I would have used these on my Reno for sure.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Great video! You nailed it with the pros and cons. I'm at the point where I need to start pulling my stakes before it's too late. Funny, I didn't see any red mowers in that video but I'm sure the next one will right?


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## BBLOCK (Jun 8, 2020)

So what happens now w the mats if you want to verticut, dethatch, aerate or any of those things that will have to deal w the matting underneath?


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

@Chris LI @lbb091919 the GM is coming out on the next mow. I'll make sure to get photos and videos on it. This has turned into the running joke on TLF I see :lol:

@JerseyGreens thanks for helping a guy out! Sorry you had to relive that nightmare a little bit lol.

@BBLOCK those mats slowly deteriorate. The should be gone by next year some time. That's the beauty of using the netless ones. There's nothing to deal with once they're gone


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

The good...







The bad...



@g-man thinks it may be Orchard Grass.

@Babameca thinks Annua.

I found about 10 of these all over. Most of the other ones were much smaller and no seed heads.

Hopefully I'm not in for a crazy ride with these...


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Stripes look bomb...whatever that is it doesn't look good - hopefully it lights up with your next tenacity app and you can hand pull or Gly it selectively.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Please tell me the GM strategically placed in each photo was intentional.

The double wides are looking fresh!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Thats not poa annua.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Not poa a. Not sure what it is but if it's not a ton of them just pull them while there standing out.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

I have found about 10 of those in my reno... I just pull em... Shits gonna grow..


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Goosegrass? Whatever it is...gly or pulling it will be the only option. You will be fine.


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## BBLOCK (Jun 8, 2020)

&#128079;&#128079;&#128079;&#128079;

Not clapping for the weeds tho just the mow job


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Beautiful stripes!

It looks close to poa a, but there's a difference I can't quite put my finger on.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

jrubb42 said:


> The good...


O...M...G 👌

Apparently the weed stripes just as well as KBG.

In all seriousness, if they are still around in October, you will really start to see them as the KBG gets even darker. Which is a good thing for now. Get out there with a big bucket, a flat-head, and some headphones. It should be fine.

Silver lining - more content for the channel?


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Thanks for all the compliments on the last post. I appreciate it everyone! Life is always busy over here, so I try to post when I can.

51 Days after seed down - It's filling in pretty nicely. Gotta put some plugs along the rock bed next year but other than that I think it's going to fill in on its own. I have golf ball sized areas of rust everywhere in the lawn. I need to hit it with some azoxy before work tomorrow. I'm going to mix in 0.2 lbs of N via Urea with it all. Still finding those random weeds all over the lawn. They all have seed heads, so this will be a battle for awhile I feel like.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

jrubb42 said:


> Thanks for all the compliments on the last post. I appreciate it everyone! Life is always busy over here, so I try to post when I can.
> 
> 51 Days after seed down - It's filling in pretty nicely. Gotta put some plugs along the rock bed next year but other than that I think it's going to fill in on its own. I have golf ball sized areas of rust everywhere in the lawn. I need to hit it with some azoxy before work tomorrow. I'm going to mix in 0.2 lbs of N via Urea with it all. Still finding those random weeds all over the lawn. They all have seed heads, so this will be a battle for awhile I feel like.


Looking awesome! I'm late to the party, but the weed you posted in the previous post looks identical to the goosegrass I have.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Hey this is looking really good. How are you liking the color? Still lots of time to darken up


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

@rob13psu good to know. I've never dealt with Goosegrass before. Looks to be similar to crabgrass. Pre-em work well for it?

@Stuofsci02 I am happy. It's lightened up since my tenacity app and I backed off the nitrogen. But I have test plots in my backyard and it's stupid dark compared to my other grass.

Even with tenacity, being young, and backing off the N, my current grass is about the same color as the last grass I had.

Here are some dusk photos to see the color a little better.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

I am also waiting for the tenacity bleaching to completely go away..


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

How is the purple areas recovery?


----------



## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

g-man said:


> How is the purple areas recovery?


They're filling in fine. I think the seedlings that were purple died (they ended up getting super thin and basically disappearing) but there was enough healthy plants around it to fill in. I have a feeling it was one of three cultivars that was struggling with the P deficiency.


----------



## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

The lawn is looking very nice. Successful reno for sure.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@jrubb42, that weedy grass you posted a photo of over a month ago...I can't believe no one has ID'd it yet. It's almost certainly Poa Triv. 90% sure. Only reason I'm not 100% is because I'm not seeing it in person. In fact, I just pulled some out today that looked similar. There are many varieties of Triv, with slightly different looks. If you find anymore, try my "string test" (look it up for photos) on it.

@tgreen


----------



## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Green said:


> @jrubb42, that weedy grass you posted a photo of over a month ago...I can't believe no one has ID'd it yet. It's almost certainly Poa Triv. 90% sure. Only reason I'm not 100% is because I'm not seeing it in person. In fact, I just pulled some out today that looked similar. There are many varieties of Triv, with slightly different looks. If you find anymore, try my "string test" (look it up for photos) on it.
> 
> @tgreen


It looks like it but can't say for sure. That lawn is cut much lower than mine which may account for the different look than I'm accustomed to. If it's triv it should pull up very easily.


----------



## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Green said:


> @jrubb42, that weedy grass you posted a photo of over a month ago...I can't believe no one has ID'd it yet. It's almost certainly Poa Triv. 90% sure. Only reason I'm not 100% is because I'm not seeing it in person. In fact, I just pulled some out today that looked similar. There are many varieties of Triv, with slightly different looks. If you find anymore, try my "string test" (look it up for photos) on it.
> 
> @tgreen




Here's the ligule of the plant I pulled up. I took this photo when I first found it. It's too dark to look for any to try the string test on right now, but I'll try it tomorrow.

If it's Triv, it's definitely going to be very disappointing. I've pulled out at least 50 plants sporadically all over the lawn. They are definitely everywhere. Sigh..

I haven't found any stolons with this weed though. Pulls up in clumps pretty easily.


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@jrubb42, looks like the "correct" ligule to me (for Triv). Everything else about the plant looks consistent. I assume it has the telltale Bluegrass tip, too, but can't tell from the photo.

As far as stolons, it doesn't always have them. I had some a couple of Springs ago that was a traditional bunchgrass, and was rooted so well that it was tough to dig up and pulled tons of soil with it. It also had brown pigmented areas on the lower stems. Sent it off to our local state scientists because I legitimately wasn't sure what type of grass it was, and the turf expert put it in their greenhouse to grow seedheads, because that was the only sure way to ID it. Sure enough, when I called him back a month later, he confirmed Poa Triv. There are so many "cultivars" (both natural varieties and some grown for turf use) of Poa Triv...kind of like with Poa annua, and they don't all look or behave the same. I've even seen dark green ones.

Edit: Your previous photo clearly shows the Bluegrass blade tips: https://postimg.cc/hhP6wHHy

One of the best articles I've come across so far on Triv: https://www.genesisturfgrass.com/news-event/view/rough-bluegrass-can-be-your-worst-lawn-nightmare/


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@jrubb42, a second possibility is Poa annua var reptans (Creeping Bluegrass), but any I've seen has more of the traditional Poa annua look (plus possible stolons, which mine had).

This does not look like Poa bulbosa.

It's definitely a Bluegrass. And not KBG.

My money is on Poa Trivialis (of some type). I think the ligule gives it away. Again, it's not all going to look exactly the same. It's more a species complex, just like KBG, where we have various varieties that all look a bit different. Your 9/10 photo shows seedheads, which is definitely a thing (per the above article) in Summer for Triv.

Keep pulling as many as you can...the problem will be reduced substantially versus what it would have been otherwise.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Green said:


> @jrubb42, looks like the "correct" ligule to me (for Triv). Everything else about the plant looks consistent. I assume it has the telltale Bluegrass tip, too, but can't tell from the photo.
> 
> As far as stolons, it doesn't always have them. I had some a couple of Springs ago that was a traditional bunchgrass, and was rooted so well that it was tough to dig up and pulled tons of soil with it. It also had brown pigmented areas on the lower stems. Sent it off to our local state scientists because I legitimately wasn't sure what type of grass it was, and the turf expert put it in their greenhouse to grow seedheads, because that was the only sure way to ID it. Sure enough, when I called him back a month later, he confirmed Poa Triv. There are so many "cultivars" (both natural varieties and some grown for turf use) of Poa Triv...kind of like with Poa annua, and they don't all look or behave the same. I've even seen dark green ones.
> 
> ...


Thanks for going so in-depth with this for me. I was really hoping no one would tell me this was Triv because that's the first thing I thought it was when I saw it.

This plant has been by far the biggest plant I've found since I started the renovation. All of the other plants are 1/2 to 1/3rd of this size.

If there's no stolons, shouldn't it be theoretically easier to get rid of? Pull it up before it seeds and it's basically gone?

Thanks for terrible news 😂.

Edit: just saw your second post. I'll find more tomorrow and take a bunch of pics. See if I can find any stolons on more of these plants. They've all had seed heads pretty much. It's been hard to identify because I've never had Annua or Triv before.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@jrubb42,

Just edited my 2nd post above regarding pulling it up. But yes, you're on the right track...pull it up before it "stolonzies" (or drops seed), and the problem should be much, much, less severe going forward.

I actually found a Poa Triv seedling in my (day 30?) reno area the other day. The giveaway was it was taller than the KBG, and light green. It had the ligule. Point is, it came from seed from a previous crop of Triv in the same area that had dropped seed (pre-reno...and the reason for the reno in the first place).


----------



## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Green said:


> @jrubb42,
> 
> Just edited my 2nd post above regarding pulling it up. But yes, you're on the right track...pull it up before it "stolonzies" (or drops seed), and the problem should be much, much, less severe going forward.
> 
> I actually found a Poa Triv seedling in my (day 30?) reno area the other day. The giveaway was it was taller than the KBG, and light green. It had the ligule. Point is, it came from seed from a previous crop of Triv in the same area that had dropped seed (pre-reno...and the reason for the reno in the first place).


As I'm laying here in bed, not being able to sleep because of this nightmarish news I just received. I am officially making an announcement that if I'm infested with Triv next spring, I am 100% retiring from lawn care unless I can get my hands on PoaCure. This was the ONE AND ONLY reason potentially holding me back from doing a Reno and of course I get it.

So pissed off right now. So much work went into this Reno just to destroy my lawn in the long term. I've seen too many people fight a tired/never ending/losing battle with Triv on this forum.. I'll be waving the wide flag immediately if it's bad.

Rant over. Goodnight.

Edit: Here's some updated photos before it's infested with lime green Triv everywhere next spring. Wouldn't be surprised if there's annua everywhere in it also.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

I really don't see much lime in those pictures. Is there a lot of the grass in question scattered across the lawn? I know triv can bring out aggravation but I wouldn't panic just yet.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> I really don't see much lime in those pictures. Is there a lot of the grass in question scattered across the lawn? I know triv can bring out aggravation but I wouldn't panic just yet.


I've picked probably 50 plants since the start of the Reno that are randomly scattered throughout the lawn that are Triv. I know there's a lot more hiding in it, as I haven't been as diligent picking them out lately. They're not bright lime green right now, which makes sense as the article that @Green referenced says that Triv is darker green in the fall. They're still lighter than the KBG, but still kind of difficult to see without looking for them.

I just don't see a way out of this with how sporadic it is in the lawn. I'm definitely not going to be able to get it all before winter just because it's hard to spot.

I feel like once it starts spreading via stolons, it's game over. I'm not gonna play the glypho game unless there's only a few plants here or there (which I don't see happening).


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@jrubb42, don't give up. Even if it was in your seed (which can happen even at a low amount in sod quality seed that gets past testing...I asked Bob Hogan this very question recently), there should not be that much of it. Pulling it out will get rid of most of it. And you still have the rest of the Fall and at least into next April if not beyond before it might start to really tack down and spread. Just keep at it, and dispose of it as you pull it up.

And if the seed was in the lawn already, before Reno, it would have eventually become noticeable anyway. Consider this an opportunity to germinate it and remove it.

I used straw at seeding years ago, and as a result, dealt with weedy grass...over a few years I pulled about 2,000 Timothy grass plants (the forage grass). I used to go out there and just pull up plants for an hour. Timothy doesn't spread, but the plants can get big and tough to pull over time. Today, I only find a few per year, maybe 5. Same thing applies.

If some Triv does get past you and start to spread, it's not going to take over, because you know what to look for and how to stop it. A simple series of spot glyphosate sprays in Spring done right will kill any such plants. I would just avoid moving plugs around for a while. I believe I spread Triv this way in the past. Same for core aeration and heavy dethatching.

Also, keep up a year-round pre-M barrier for a few years to burn out all the seed. Prodiamine to the rescue. That will keep your hard-earned progress from regressing. If you need to reseed spots, just disturb the soil prior, and then skip those reseeded areas on your next pre-M app.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Good advise from @Green there.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Agreed @SNOWBOB11 great advice from @Green .


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## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

You have a youtube channel right? Think about all the content you can make!


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

situman said:


> You have a youtube channel right? Think about all the content you can make!


Lol. The problem is I will never win the war. PoaCure is the only thing that will beat an infestation of Triv and I can't promote that on the channel, as it's only sold to golf courses and not legal for residential use.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Like others said, not all Triv is created equal. I had some in one area that was far easier to eradicate than other people have reported.

Don't be disheartened just yet, until you really know what you're dealing with. It might not be that bad!

See how it looks in spring and plan a round of tenacity to hilight it.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

If it was easy, everyone would be doing it and it wouldn't be fun. Doesn't sound like you have anything abnormal to me. Grab a drywall knife, some clean sand and cut out the cancer and fill in with sand. I walk the entire reno once per week and cut out anything with seed heads or just doesn't look quite right..


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@jrubb42, Sulfosulfuron is more than halfway decent, too...it's pretty decent to good (even extremely effective on some varieties of Triv). And it's a selective herbicide! It is in the herbicide class most prone to resistance, but you would be also using glyphosate and hand-pulling to combat resistance. Look for "Sertay" herbicide by Atticus. I'm not sure when it's coming out, but it's essentially a branded generic and is labeled for use on cool-season turf. Maybe we could get domyown to sell it when it does come out, as they sell other products by Atticus. I have a couple of years experience trying Certainty now (the name-brand version, as I have the old label from when it was still labeled for cool-season). Used right, it doesn't kill your good grass. I find it a useful adjunct to glyphosate. Another thing I find useful: manually cutting off any seedheads in treated areas and collecting them. Repeated mid to late Fall spot Tenacity apps can also slow down Triv to a degree, until you have the opportunity to do something more with them in Spring.


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## Sfurunner13 (Feb 26, 2019)

I always liked this quote that I saw on @pennstater2005 page, "Perfection, like infinity, is unobtainable, even at places like Augusta. It's the journey toward the goal that holds all the fun, joy, and reward." - dfw_pilot


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## SumBeach35 (Jul 11, 2019)

Green said:


> @jrubb42, Sulfosulfuron is more than halfway decent, too...it's pretty decent to good (even extremely effective on some varieties of Triv). And it's a selective herbicide! It is in the herbicide class most prone to resistance, but you would be also using glyphosate and hand-pulling to combat resistance. Look for "Sertay" herbicide by Atticus. I'm not sure when it's coming out, but it's essentially a branded generic and is labeled for use on cool-season turf. Maybe we could get domyown to sell it when it does come out, as they sell other products by Atticus. I have a couple of years experience trying Certainty now (the name-brand version, as I have the old label from when it was still labeled for cool-season). Used right, it doesn't kill your good grass. I find it a useful adjunct to glyphosate. Another thing I find useful: manually cutting off any seedheads in treated areas and collecting them. Repeated mid to late Fall spot Tenacity apps can also slow down Triv to a degree, until you have the opportunity to do something more with them in Spring.


Unfortunately, Sertay is not approved for use in his state.

I feel your pain @jrubb42 i have either triv or an orchard grass problem in my overseed.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

SumBeach35 said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> > @jrubb42, Sulfosulfuron is more than halfway decent, too...it's pretty decent to good (even extremely effective on some varieties of Triv). And it's a selective herbicide! It is in the herbicide class most prone to resistance, but you would be also using glyphosate and hand-pulling to combat resistance. Look for "Sertay" herbicide by Atticus. I'm not sure when it's coming out, but it's essentially a branded generic and is labeled for use on cool-season turf. Maybe we could get domyown to sell it when it does come out, as they sell other products by Atticus. I have a couple of years experience trying Certainty now (the name-brand version, as I have the old label from when it was still labeled for cool-season). Used right, it doesn't kill your good grass. I find it a useful adjunct to glyphosate. Another thing I find useful: manually cutting off any seedheads in treated areas and collecting them. Repeated mid to late Fall spot Tenacity apps can also slow down Triv to a degree, until you have the opportunity to do something more with them in Spring.
> ...


It might get approved in more states over time, though...always check back every so often. Then again, what good is approval if it isn't at any dealers yet, a year after it came out, either? A lot of these things do take time...but I bet it'll be available long before Poa Cure (or a generic version of Poa Cure in 20 years) is approved for yards.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Last video of the year. In depth look at the Reno.

https://youtu.be/9qwmrw5iUwU


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

A+ results - outrageous color and fill in. Doesn't look like a reno at all!

It's sad that you northern guys have to call it quits so early. Can't wait to see this again in the spring.

Learning something new all the time. I always thought seed heads meant poa a. Now I'm wondering if I have triv. Last year I was freaking out about weeds around this time - bought a tub of Poa Constrictor on impulse. I ended up selling it to another member because I didn't need it. It should be ok.

I got my Moonlight seed from Twin City. Good people!


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Hey Jesse, I just watched your video last night; great job on the reno. It was fun to watch you and Stu go through it this year as I contemplate what I'm going to do in 2022.

If we do have that Canadian meet up, we'll send you a zoom link!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Enjoyed the wrap-up video man. Love how you keep the kids involved. I try to do the same as well with my youngsters - I find it more time consuming but it's very important to get them out of the house and into the dirt with us.

Fingers crossed but one would figure that PoaCure casts a wider net by next Spring and sells some to us!

I looked at the EPA approval and nowhere in the wording does it state anything about it being sold to "golf courses only". It does state, "On the basis of information furnished by the registrant..." - lets hope they didn't shoot themselves in the foot by saying this is for golf courses only in their EPA submittal...


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Harts said:


> Hey Jesse, I just watched your video last night; great job on the reno. It was fun to watch you and Stu go through it this year as I contemplate what I'm going to do in 2022.
> 
> If we do have that Canadian meet up, we'll send you a zoom link!


Book it!!! 38,500 sqft super reno! Woot!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You still have another mow if not 2 more this year.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Stuofsci02 said:


> Harts said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Jesse, I just watched your video last night; great job on the reno. It was fun to watch you and Stu go through it this year as I contemplate what I'm going to do in 2022.
> ...


Ha. Not the whole yard. It would only be the from 10.5k.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Harts said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> > Harts said:
> ...


  Just a baby Reno like mine…


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@jrubb42 how is the lawn this year?


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

It's looking good overall. Came out of winter super slow. I was the last one to mow in my neighborhood. I've been meaning to start up my journal for this year but just really haven't found the time to get it started. Finding triv in a bunch of spots. I have a plan for it though.

I'll post more pics soon


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Looks fantastic!


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Looks amazing for a young Reno!


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

I've been following your YouTube videos...how's the N-blitz going?

FYI-Jesse "The Body" Ventura is out in force for your boys tonight on MNF.


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