# Steffen707's Lawn Journal 2021-22 Bluebank/Mazama/Bewitched Reno



## steffen707

Backstory:
I'm in Central Wisconsin, have a mixture of prg, kbg, old school TF from a sod installation that was done 20 years ago in the lawn. I love all the stripes on youtube, but realize I don't have the commitment for short reel mowing. I've got a JD GX345 with powerflow bagger. I bought the mulch kit, but its a PITA to put on/take off. In the next year or two i'm going to replace it, hopefully with an electric zero turn. I only want to mow 2 times per week. Someday i might look into plant growth regulator, but i'm a firm believer in only tweaking so many things at once or else you have no idea what is causing any issues.

I spread milorganite and a winterizer last year with a Scotts Elite spreader I bought last year. I didn't kill anything! So i'm more confident and fired my lawn guy last summer. Pretty sure he threw down lime, cuz "YOU'VE GOT PINE NEEDLES". and he was in general not reliable. They plug aerated my yard after a heavy rainfall. Looked like somebody tilled my lawn. =( It all came back, but took some time. That's when I learned about reciprocating plug aerators instead of the "star drive" kind. I think you need a pull behind, or reciprocating plugger, or else you risk the tines becoming a gigantic tiller under the wrong hands/conditions.

Here is a Before/After of my spring project. i'll post more about that later.




Future topics:
Equipment

Products - I've read about people mixing their own cocktails with surfactants and soap to aerate the lawn, while it does look less expensive, its just more math/chemistry/involvement than i'm willing to commit at this time, so i've drank the NEXT Greene County Fertilizer coolaid, bought several of their products and am starting to make the soil better (that's the plan anyway).

20 year spring cleanup project

Backyard Test Plots - RPR, HGT, RTF, Reinders 80/20


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## steffen707

Checkout these stripes Ryan Knorr & Connor Ward!


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## steffen707

This is my plan for the test plots
4 sections of 4 different grass seed.

4 sections with same grass seed overseeded into existing lawn.

each plot broken up into 2 sections each with different starter fertilizer timing applications.

Each of those sections split up with different seed coverings, Peat Moss, EZ Straw, Seed Aide and then nothing.
Should give 64-8sqft sections = 512sf


I also thought about just saying screw it and planting the Badger Blue in the whole 1000sf corner of my backyard because i'm 80% sure that's the route i'm going to go.

Badger Blue is what i'm calling Bluebank, Bewitched and Mazama. Because I live in Wisconsin, and it should grow good in Wisconsin.


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## steffen707

I've read that a good route to go to diversify your stand of grass is to pick 1 cultivar from each of these KBG types because the color (and maybe other things), should be similar and not stick out.
Compact Midnight - My pick Bluebank
Compact - My pick Bewitched
Compact America - My pick Mazama

This should diversify the qualities of your overall turf and hopefully give you better tollerance for disease, insects, drought, stress, ect. ect.

I think picking 1 from the other types and having a mix of 4-5-6, could further diversify your stand, but i wanted dark green and mostly uniform in color so I'm going with this combo (unless i change my mind, =) )

Here are some links that talk about types/classifications.
UMASS KBG Classifications	https://ag.umass.edu/turf/fact-sheets/characteristics-of-kentucky-bluegrass-cultivars
DLFpickseed KBG Classification	http://www.dlfpickseed.com/Files/Files/DLF_Pickseed_USA/Brochures_Etc/Kentucky_Bluegrass_Classification_DLFPickseed.pdf
Univ Tennessee KBG Classification	https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/W159-B.pdf


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## steffen707

My criteria for picking cultivars was these traits from the NTEP trials (https://ntep.org/) I found that I was able to have AT LEAST 2 of my 3 Elite Cultivars excel in each of the criteria below. I also tried to limit as few of the middle of the road stats as well. Bluebank sucks at greenup, but i'm willing to deal with that to get super dark green. Some concessions have to be made.

Can you buy the cultivar?

From what I can tell any SiteOne cultivars you can't buy individually and their blends don't have specific cultivars, they can change from week to week. This was too inconsistent for me.

Can you buy the cultivar in amounts YOU want? One cultivar grower told me they only sell to sod farms and in MASSIVE quantities

Will the cultivar be around in 5-10-30 years?
Genetic Color

I really like the dark lawn look, Bluebank and Mazama are some of the darkest. I've heard Bewitched gets darker in years 2-3. Time will tell.

This is such a pain because generally the early spring green up cultivars, don't have deep dark blue/green.

My lawn always looks like crap in the spring and kicks into gear after everybody elses, so i'm use to poor spring green up. It would be worth it if I have a lush dark lawn longer than everybody else
Quality in North Central Region

I figured this was a good trait. Grass that grows well in my area. Central Wisconsin can get cold. What grows well in the southern part of the transition zone, might not grow well here. Bewitched and Bluebank rated well in North Central.
Fall Color

Fall is my favorite time of year. We get about 6 months of stupid winter in Wisconsin, so I want to love my lawn until the first snowflake falls anywhere from early October to late December
Shade Ability

I have 1 slightly shady spot, 1 moderate shade, 1 moderate+ shade in my yard. My 20 year old KBG/PRG/TF lawn does pretty good in areas 1 and 2, but struggles in spot 3. I'm hoping new cultivars like Mazama and bewitched will grow their without much fuss.
Traffic Tolerance

I've got 2 young boys and a dog that plays fetch. Need good grass for this. I read Bluebank was good, Bewitched was actually THEE highest for Traffic Tollerance in its Trial year. Mazama is poor at traffic tollerance. I found it impossible to have the best of all categories. Barvette HGT is the closest, but its color is lacking. For anybody that doesn't care about dark green, i dont' know why you would look elsewhere, Barvette HGT has been dominant in most categories for YEARS.
Drought Tolerance

Not really worried about this because I can always let my sprinklers run longer, but why not look at all the ratings.
Uniformity

Who doesn't like a uniform look to their lawn?
Seedhead

I hate seedheads. Bluebank, which i think might end up 50% of my seed by weight had an 8.3 for Seedhead rating. It was the best in its trial. 
Its one reason my lawn looks crappy for so long. This also wasn't a huge contributor, but when you look at 20 years of NTEP trial data, have to whittle down the list somehow.


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## steffen707

To see how I nerded out on my NTEP quest, here's a link to my google doc. Looks like google now lets you scroll and click on tabs in google sheets that are pasted to forums....AWESOME.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bippys-BbSy3OLZc0dGKW36zZEQkLkcXIYfEiKuKuO0/edit?usp=sharing


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## steffen707

Here is a photo from fellow member @jrubb42 with his Bluebank, Bewitched, Mazama test plot.



He also did an update in this video of his test plots, update starts around 6:06 in the video. Video was posted May 19, 2021


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## steffen707

Here is a photo of bewitched and mazama test pots grown in a shady spot by @fusebox7 

He noted the Mazama on the right is darker and denser.....


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## steffen707

I'm making a 40lb batch of KBG Total cost with shipping was around $280
50% Bluebank
25% Bewitched
25% Mazama

I bought 10lbs Mazama from CD Ford https://www.cdford.com/lawn-and-garden-1/mazama-kentucky-bluegrass-10, it was like $40+23 shipping from Illinois to Wisconsin.

I bought 10lbs of Bewitched from United Seeds for $65 plus $11 shipping coming from Iowa or Nebraska.

I bought 20lbs of Bluebank from Swellseedco an offshoot of Landmark Seed Co (discoverer?) of Bluebank. https://swellseedco.com/shop/product/bluebank-kentucky-bluegrass Found a 10% off code online. It was $139 shipped.


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## JerseyGreens

BlueBank will make you very happy! I love it thus far and the NTEP trials nailed it spot on.

I had a much slower spring green up, and very little seedheads this year. Plus it's dark as heck!!


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## steffen707

JerseyGreens said:


> BlueBank will make you very happy! I love it thus far and the NTEP trials nailed it spot on.
> 
> I had a much slower spring green up, and very little seedheads this year. Plus it's dark as heck!!


Yeah, can't seem to get good spring green up with natural dark color. I think I can deal with slower green up for a super dark lawn.

Do you have a monostand of Bluebank in your front yard? I'll check out your lawn journal.

Edit: awesome to see your stripes showed up well by April 9th. I'm eager to see the rest of your thread to see more Bluebank goodness!


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## steffen707

Applied
1 gallon of 1% milk
32oz of unsulfured blackstrap molasses
5oz of Sea-K
with a final volume of 10 gallons to my 10k yard, then watered for 5min per zone. Have to use warm/hot water for the molasses to dillute. I topped it off with cool water. No idea if hot water is bad for the lawn, but warm water is probably better.

Got a bunch of rain today and for the next 3 days.

No idea if the milk molasses thing is snake oil, but its cheap, good way to practice with my Chapin unicorn sprayer.


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## Chris LI

Molasses definitely will help to feed the soil microbes. I usually spray UBM at least once in the summer. I also use them in the vegetable garden, occasionally. For milk, I think you need the unpasteurized heavy milk straight from the cow, to be most beneficial (I forget the correct term). However, the 1% couldn't hurt. I saw a thread somewhere delving into it, but can't remember if it is on TLF or ATY.


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## steffen707

I installed a bypass valve in the basement with a WIFI ball valve actuator. So now I can have hot water at my outdoor spigot.

I need to hook up a short hose to a Y at the spigot though. Yesterday it took 30 seconds of water flow to get the hot water to the end of my 100ft hose. Then if I wanted cold water, i'd have to flush another 30 seconds of hot water through the hose. not very environmentally freindly.

Can't wait to have a 3rd stall on my garage with a Utility sink! This will do for now.



I bought it on prime day for $33 shipped. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08RS64NKV?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details
It seems to be pretty well built. The manual pull ring doesn't work very well, but I shouldn't have any emergency that I need hot water at the front yard spigot, lol.

I bought another one of these for my 1" main water line. if I get a notification from my Flume 2 that there is flooding anywhere, i can shut off the water to the whole house with the app..........that's the plan anyway.

I just bought this, haven't even installed it yet. Its a Flume 2 smart home wifi water monitor. Was $150 on prime day.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08DX6MP8X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

There are other ones that are like $400-$500 that have a valve, but then you have to install it. I think my setup for about $240 which requires no cutting/soldering should work nicely.


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## steffen707

Well i've done a few things here and there to the lawn, but i've decided to not do the test plots and instead i sprayed 1/3 of the lawn with roundup to renovate.

I had 1.5 gallons of 3-4 year old roundup that I sprayed first, then sprayed 6 more gallons of new roundup from concentrate onto my 3700sf plot.

At first I was thinking I sprayed too heavily, but then read you're supposed to spray 1 gallon roundup per 300sf. I was surprised this morning, 13 hours later that I didn't notice anything, but after work I walked the plot and its definitely dying.

Totally messed up killing off perfectly fine KBG. I'm hoping the new cultivars handle the partial shade better, grow thicker and are darker green. Fingers crossed.


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## steffen707

I decided to skip the test plots and just reno 3700 of my 10k yard this year. I already bought the KBG cultivars, might as well get 1/3 of my lawn done in 2021. I'm not sure if I sprayed too much, not enough, grass was too tall, but the weeds are dead! I mowed the lawn short the other day and i'm going to hit it again with gly this weekend. I started the reno process about 4 weeks out, so I could spray 2-3 times if needed.

Damn KBG is resilliant. Neighbors are freaking out, lol.


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## steffen707

Wow, what a difference 4-5 more days makes. The pictures above were after 7 days post glyphosate. The pictures below are at day 11-12.


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## steffen707

I decided to mark up three roughly 1200sf sections, then mixed up some 4 gallons of glyphosate with lazer dye and 0.33lbs of AMS because i have hard water.

If you actually spray 1 gallon per 300sf, WOW, you really spray the area. I only used 8-9 gallons on round 1, 12 on round 2. This should toast everything else remaining.

I'm liking the "blue grass"!


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## Liquidstone

That second round of gly is going to make things super toasty! I like your choice in seed blend, it's going to be legit. I'll be following along.


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## steffen707

Liquidstone said:


> That second round of gly is going to make things super toasty! I like your choice in seed blend, it's going to be legit. I'll be following along.


Thanks. I actually read through a bunch of NTEP data and settled on those three, then saw a bunch of others on here using at least 2 of the three.

So....great minds think alike I guess.


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## Robs92k

Super cool…hope I don't ever have to do a Reno, but excited to see how that mix works in our climate. I'm thinking, if anything, I'd like to redo my mound...someday.

Cool project, thanks for sharing.


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## steffen707

Good news, I was able to get my plug aerator rental moved up a week, so i'm getting it this Friday instead of the following. So now I can dethatch/plug/topdress and regrade some stuff this weekend. That moves up my seed down date 3-4 days. yes!


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## steffen707

well I started trying to remove all the dead grass. I probably should have taken the anti-scalp wheels off the mower deck......ugh
The sunjoe does a pretty good job pulling stuff up, but it took me about an hour per 400sf to dethatch multiple times/ways, forward and backward, then mow all that stuff.
Definatly glad to have a riding mower with a powerflow bagger. push mowing all the stuff the sunjoe got up would take FOREVER.


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## steffen707

i'm taking the anti-scalp wheels off tomorrow, and also borrowing a friends push bagging mower to hopefully scalp the lawn, then I might whip any areas that still have grass.

Having rubber boots for this process is a must if you ask me.


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## M32075

That's a great kill and the clean up was no joke I'm sure you slept good that night.


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## steffen707

M32075 said:


> That's a great kill and the clean up was no joke I'm sure you slept good that night.


We'll see, I did it 2 hours ago, havn't slept yet. =)
Also, I have 2900sf of the 3700sf to go. :shock:


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## lbb091919

Just a word of caution on the SunJoe. I toasted the motor gear running the scarifier backwards too much. It does a stellar job but you run the risk of stripping that small gear.


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## steffen707

lbb091919 said:


> Just a word of caution on the SunJoe. I toasted the motor gear running the scarifier backwards too much. It does a stellar job but you run the risk of stripping that small gear.


ooh, good advice. 
Do you recommend the scarifier or the dethatch cylinder? I'll probably throw that on there and give it a whirl tomorrow. Only takes a few minutes to swap out.

The thought crossed my mind to rent a power rake even. I'm hoping the first 2 below do a solid job.
riding mower with anti scalp wheels removed
push mower as low as possible
scarifier catridge
power rake


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## lbb091919

If you're just trying to rip the dead grass out then the dethatcher cartridge will probably work better. Give both a try though!


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## steffen707

I need advice. Do I need to scrape up all of this stuff? it looks kinda like this "flap" is the thatch layer? I imagine that if I used a sod cutter it would cut just below this floppy layer.



My gut tells me no, because I haven't heard of many people using a sod cutter. I'm thinking i just need to cut as much of the grass out and then rough up this dirt/thatch stuff and seed into that?


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## steffen707

This is hard work man. i took the anti-scalp wheels off and Holy Cow, my JD can scalp. I used my neighbors push mower, then mine with the power flow bagger.......I don't know how people without riding mowers can do these renovations. Kudos to you!


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## jrubb42

steffen707 said:


> This is hard work man. i took the anti-scalp wheels off and Holy Cow, my JD can scalp. I used my neighbors push mower, then mine with the power flow bagger.......I don't know how people without riding mowers can do these renovations. Kudos to you!


Lmao.. yeah, no one said this would be a walk in the park. Hahaha.

As for the floppy part of your dead grass.. that's all sod. You do not need to cut that out.

All you need to do going forward is run the sun Joe dethatcher two separate ways to get all that dead grass out of there. Then on seed down day, put on the scarify attachment and go two different ways to create your seed bed.

You probably didn't need to go as crazy as you did with the scalping, but it definitely won't hurt. Lol.


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## steffen707

jrubb42 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is hard work man. i took the anti-scalp wheels off and Holy Cow, my JD can scalp. I used my neighbors push mower, then mine with the power flow bagger.......I don't know how people without riding mowers can do these renovations. Kudos to you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lmao.. yeah, no one said this would be a walk in the park. Hahaha.
> 
> As for the floppy part of your dead grass.. that's all sod. You do not need to cut that out.
> 
> All you need to do going forward is run the sun Joe dethatcher two separate ways to get all that dead grass out of there. Then on seed down day, put on the scarify attachment and go two different ways to create your seed bed.
> 
> You probably didn't need to go as crazy as you did with the scalping, but it definitely won't hurt. Lol.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your advice. I didn't try to scalp that much, certain areas the side of the deck actually dug in like a plow. It was fun though. Neighbors now get to see a new look to the reno.


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## steffen707

So is the sod considered soil when I'm looking for seed to soil contact?


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## jrubb42

steffen707 said:


> So is the sod considered soil when I'm looking for seed to soil contact?


Yes. I don't think I've personally read any journals where they completely take out the sod. Get all that dead grass out of there and you will have a perfect seed bed.


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## jrubb42

Looking at all of the photos again you probably don't need to dethatch again. Scarify both ways on seed down day and you're probably good. There's a lot of soil visible as it is.


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## steffen707

jrubb42 said:


> Looking at all of the photos again you probably don't need to dethatch again. Scarify both ways on seed down day and you're probably good. There's a lot of soil visible as it is.


Sweet! I'm going to plug aerate tomorrow then scarify the plugs/lawn and I'm bringing in soil tomorrow to fix some bumps and dips.
Then rolling the lawn, fixing any issues with a level lawn.

Then I'll scarify two directions on seed day, which is hopefully next week.

In hindsight I should have given myself two weeks after putting soil down.... This is my test 3700sf reno for back yard 2022, front yard 2023.
Will start 2-3 weeks earlier next time.


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## jrubb42

steffen707 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking at all of the photos again you probably don't need to dethatch again. Scarify both ways on seed down day and you're probably good. There's a lot of soil visible as it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet! I'm going to plug aerate tomorrow then scarify the plugs/lawn and I'm bringing in soil tomorrow to fix some bumps and dips.
> Then rolling the lawn, fixing any issues with a level lawn.
> 
> Then I'll scarify two directions on seed day, which is hopefully next week.
> 
> In hindsight I should have given myself two weeks after putting soil down.... This is my test 3700sf reno for back yard 2022, front yard 2023.
> Will start 2-3 weeks earlier next time.
Click to expand...

Yeah you're cutting it close for time to put seed down being in Wisconsin and putting down KBG. My seed was down 3 weeks ago. I would core aerate and drag the plugs and see how level you can get the ground with the plugs and skip the topsoil if possible. By bringing in topsoil, you're going to want to fallow any weed seeds out of it and you don't have time for that. I would get seed down ASAP


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## steffen707

Well I blew the yard with a backpack blower then plug aerated with a Billy goat. Omg is that thing awesome. A bit slow with only 4 tines, but then it's very maneuverable. My stupid drag that I paid extra for Saturday delivery is coming Monday, and the three other sources/friends for drags have not panned out. I'm learning some things on this reno for sure!


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## steffen707

That first picture was my showing my neighbors sprinklers and two muddy holes I need to address.


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## steffen707

@JerseyGreens & @g-man & @jrubb42 , can you give me some advice?
I'm in central wisconsin and should have started my reno 2-4 weeks earlier.
Today I decided I wanted to take care of my ruts and dips with pulverized soil and deal with the consequences. I hear that I should water this soil for 2 weeks? to fallow it so weeds can grow. Is 2 weeks enough?

I feel I have 5 options.
1. finish spreading soil tomorrow, spray tenacity, drop the seed tomorrow and hope the tenacity stops any unwanted weeds/grasses.
2. Fallow the soil and seed 1 week or so into September and risk the weather getting cold too soon.
3. Attempt a dormant seeding late this year.
4. Wait for spring to seed.
5. wait for next fall to seed......UGH.

Thanks.


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## jskierko

I'd get seed down ASAP. Weeds can be dealt with later. Seeding too late can have far worse consequences.


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## jrubb42

jskierko said:


> I'd get seed down ASAP. Weeds can be dealt with later. Seeding too late can have far worse consequences.


What he said. Drop seed asap. No time for fallowing at this point.


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## steffen707

roger that. Tomorrow is going to be another long day. thanks Fellas.


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## g-man

I would consider ryegrass this year without fallowing and KBG next.


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## JerseyGreens

+1 on getting down rye ASAP.


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## M32075

I can't argue rye grass to be honest I'm thinking you woke up this morning just a little sore


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## steffen707

Perennial or annual? And then you think I should kill off that grass next year and then seed with Kentucky bluegrass


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## steffen707

12:55 soil down, scarifies seed bed, McDonald's then spreading seed!


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## steffen707

Peat moss time!


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## JerseyGreens

What seed did you go with?


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## steffen707

I decided to take a chance and go with the KBG blend I put together. Fingers crossed it works out.

This is the mess i woke up to. I spoke with my neighbor and he's going to shut that zone off for 3 weeks



This little guy is amazing. I don't know why everybody doesn't own one.



I hope I was supposed to rake up all this fluff and take it off the turf. This stuff all came up when I was raking in the seed. I suppose there could be seeds stuck to that fluff, but I took it off.

I bought the small landzie because the big one was soooo expensive. I'm quite happy with it. Its light enough that I can pick it up and move it if needed without rolling it. I've heard so many people say that peat moss is messy. NOT WITH THE LANDZIE. =)


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## steffen707

This stuff is either going to work amazing, or it's going to suffocate my babies. https://www.reinders.com/products/spectac-4-10/
Time will tell. 
I think if I had a shaking jug kinda like a Scott's all in one ez seed container, it would have been more consistent. My hand spreader didn't work at all.


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## steffen707

So what is the generally accepted method to deal with washout? Take said seaeds and peat moss and toss it back onto the lawn and hope for the best?


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## steffen707

It's not even raining hard. This is going to be a difficult 14-21 days.


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## Chuuurles

That's frustrating after how much work you have put into this. No idea where u are but on the radar the storm is a decent size..


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## steffen707

Lol, smack dab in the middle of the state. What app is that, looks good.


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## steffen707

Croiky, batten down the hatches me laddies


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## steffen707

Looks like 1pm will be the worst for today.

Stupid me, didn't put down tackifier where the downspouts are.


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## lbb091919

Wow man that storm could not be more centered around you. Hoping the damage is minimal and you're back up and running quickly. This reno business is definitely not for the faint of heart.


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## Liquidstone

The ups and downs are rough especially after throwing seed down. That tackifier that you got looks legit. I'm sure it will help. Here's to hoping you can dodge any more washout.


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## steffen707

2DAS UPDATE - we weathered the first storm. Impressed with the tackifier. Water only collects two to three times per year in our swale...... Today was one of those days. Slight washout at road, but not too bad. Really impressed with the soil work I did in the backyard under my trees. Normally that's a swamp.


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## steffen707

Oh, and I posted a few pics of how beautiful the rest of the lawn looks, mostly front.
I feel like I'm in junior high again, breaking up with a cute girl cuz I want to date a cuter girl........


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## steffen707

Thank you to you guys for moral support. It's a good experience and it's only 2DAS - (days after seeding?) but hopefully I can help others out with some tips. 
Just gotta take it one day at a time.


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## steffen707

Lol, we don't get streets flooding often. I'll be real interested to see how washout from downspouts and the road have affected the seed to soil contact. Hopefully my babies are still under a bit of soil!


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## steffen707

Thanks @lbb091919 wish I thought of this last Sunday.


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## steffen707

going to throw some more seed and peatmoss onto the downspout areas after tonights Tstorm.

its funny because I wanted to do this for next spring. I use to get a huge lake under those trees, and i was wondering if it was just from snow melt in the yard or from snow melting off the roof then going over there. now I got my "temporary" 7 month setup completed. and I should be able to reuse everything for the future 2 renovations i do. sweet!


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## steffen707

Photo quality isn't amazing, but mine isn't mounted outside either and it's going through two panes of glass and an old screen. No outlets near this spot and it only uses 2.4ghz, so I need to stay within range of my router. This is the V3 version, but this $30 wyze camera is going to work great @g-man .
I took a screen capture with moist lawn so I can compare to other days and have a Rachio 3 so I can turn on sprinklers from.... Blockbuster video if I want to..... Okay Family Video...... Okay the local Red Box DVD kiosk thing.


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## steffen707

Lol, got 2.5" last night, and now we're starting the 3rd thunderstorm of the week.


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## Liquidstone

Man you are just getting pummeled. I'm sorry man. I hope you've got some more seed at the ready.


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## steffen707




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## steffen707

5 inches in 24 hours


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## Bob Loblawn

Whoa. You guys have been getting crushed with storms up north there. Sorry to see this man.

Hopefully you can asses the situation soon and have a game plan ready to go.


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## lbb091919

The Ron Burgundy meme is spot on. This sucks a big one but totally out of your control. You've controlled every variable you can and done it well. It's one of those where you just sit back, shake your head, and smile. You've got this man.


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## steffen707

Bob Loblawn said:


> Whoa. You guys have been getting crushed with storms up north there. Sorry to see this man.
> 
> Hopefully you can asses the situation soon and have a game plan ready to go.


I'm hopeful that all the seed is sitting nicely in the soil, well most of it perhaps. Fingers crossed



lbb091919 said:


> The Ron Burgundy meme is spot on. This sucks a big one but totally out of your control. You've controlled every variable you can and done it well. It's one of those where you just sit back, shake your head, and smile. You've got this man.


Thanks man. It would be really cool if I do still get decent germination. Then I can make some nice before/during/after montage.


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## jskierko

We're basically reno flood brothers. Feel your pain, but props on keeping it lighthearted.


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## steffen707

jskierko said:


> We're basically reno flood brothers. Feel your pain, but props on keeping it lighthearted.


Flood Brothers!

At least my beer fridge is full


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## steffen707

Lol, never seen the north side fill up before.


----------



## steffen707

And the storms gone. Night photo mode is cool.


----------



## steffen707

Okay, let's move past the rain, what do I do about it?
The next 10 days look semi/alright. I sowed seed on Aug 22.
Do I put down new seed everywhere, just where soil was washed away?
Nowhere and just see where it didn't germinate and deal with in spring?

Do I put down new peatmoss where there is none?

Thanks!


----------



## jwill

That's a crazy amount of rain. You can only control so much. Everything can be fixed though.


----------



## steffen707

Lmao, I forgot to skip all the sprinkler times for today, so I watered the lawn this morning.....


----------



## lbb091919

steffen707 said:


> Lmao, I forgot to skip all the sprinkler times for today, so I watered the lawn this morning.....


I mean, it was looking a little dry out there :lol:


----------



## steffen707

Since my peatmoss has been completely redistributed to my lower areas, do I need to worry about too much on top of the seeds below?


----------



## steffen707

7.65" in 36 hrs


----------



## lbb091919

That's gotta be a reno record.


----------



## steffen707

It's very early, but we've got grass babies!


----------



## Robs92k

Very nice! Congrats!


----------



## steffen707

Round 3.....4? Who knows. At least I don't have to water in my fert I threw down on the rest of lawn.


----------



## jwill

Congrats on the grass babies!


----------



## jrubb42

I honestly feel bad telling you to put seed down ASAP at this point. That's an insane amount of rain...and it's still coming..

I'm glad you're taking it in stride. Nothing you can really do at this point. I'm drinking a beer in your honor right now.


----------



## steffen707

jrubb42 said:


> I honestly feel bad telling you to put seed down ASAP at this point. That's an insane amount of rain...and it's still coming..
> 
> I'm glad you're taking it in stride. Nothing you can really do at this point. I'm drinking a beer in your honor right now.


Do you think I should put seed down because too much of it would have been washed away from the rain?

Should I put seed down where all the peat moss was washed to, or just where there currently isn't any peatmoss?

What kind of beer?


----------



## jrubb42

steffen707 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly feel bad telling you to put seed down ASAP at this point. That's an insane amount of rain...and it's still coming..
> 
> I'm glad you're taking it in stride. Nothing you can really do at this point. I'm drinking a beer in your honor right now.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think I should put seed down because too much of it would have been washed away from the rain?
> 
> Should I put seed down where all the peat moss was washed to, or just where there currently isn't any peatmoss?
> 
> What kind of beer?
Click to expand...

Summit Saga. My go to. Haha.

At this point I'm not sure what the answer is. I've never seen a reno flooded multiple times in the first week of putting seed down. I would think those flooded areas are going to need more seed. I can't imagine they haven't floated away at this point.

If it was me (I don't know if this is the right answer), I would put down 1/1.5 lbs per K on the whole Reno.. I'd rather deal with overcrowding than nothing at all going forward. Just throw it down and hope for the best.

Maybe someone else has better advice?


----------



## steffen707

jrubb42 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly feel bad telling you to put seed down ASAP at this point. That's an insane amount of rain...and it's still coming..
> 
> I'm glad you're taking it in stride. Nothing you can really do at this point. I'm drinking a beer in your honor right now.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think I should put seed down because too much of it would have been washed away from the rain?
> 
> Should I put seed down where all the peat moss was washed to, or just where there currently isn't any peatmoss?
> 
> What kind of beer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Summit Saga. My go to. Haha.
> 
> At this point I'm not sure what the answer is. I've never seen a reno flooded multiple times in the first week of putting seed down. I would think those flooded areas are going to need more seed. I can't imagine they haven't floated away at this point.
> 
> If it was me (I don't know if this is the right answer), I would put down 1/1.5 lbs per K on the whole Reno.. I'd rather deal with overcrowding than nothing at all going forward. Just throw it down and hope for the best.
> 
> Maybe someone else has better advice?
Click to expand...

Seems like a plausible solution.

Few more questions,
Should I just throw down everywhere, including on top of all the peatmoss, or rake up all the peatmoss and then throw down everywhere, lol?

If seed aren't touching soil, but sitting on top of peatmoss, will they germinate and start rooting into the actual soil 1/4-3/8" below?

Anybody else have thoughts on this?


----------



## steffen707

Weather tomorrow and on looks pretty calm.


----------



## jrubb42

steffen707 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think I should put seed down because too much of it would have been washed away from the rain?
> 
> Should I put seed down where all the peat moss was washed to, or just where there currently isn't any peatmoss?
> 
> What kind of beer?
> 
> 
> 
> Summit Saga. My go to. Haha.
> 
> At this point I'm not sure what the answer is. I've never seen a reno flooded multiple times in the first week of putting seed down. I would think those flooded areas are going to need more seed. I can't imagine they haven't floated away at this point.
> 
> If it was me (I don't know if this is the right answer), I would put down 1/1.5 lbs per K on the whole Reno.. I'd rather deal with overcrowding than nothing at all going forward. Just throw it down and hope for the best.
> 
> Maybe someone else has better advice?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seems like a plausible solution.
> 
> Few more questions,
> Should I just throw down everywhere, including on top of all the peatmoss, or rake up all the peatmoss and then throw down everywhere, lol?
> 
> If seed aren't touching soil, but sitting on top of peatmoss, will they germinate and start rooting into the actual soil 1/4-3/8" below?
> 
> Anybody else have thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't throw on top of peat moss. If the peat moss is still there, that means seed is still underneath it. Is there a lot of peat still in place? I would put down seed everywhere peat is not.


----------



## steffen707

The areas that still have peatmoss are where the flooded ponds were.
Peatmoss was washed down the slopes into the pond, then the water finally migrated through the soil, leaving a ton of peatmoss behind in those spots.


----------



## jrubb42

steffen707 said:


> The areas that still have peatmoss are where the flooded ponds were.
> Peatmoss was washed down the slopes into the pond, then the water finally migrated through the soil, leaving a ton of peatmoss behind in those spots.


Jeeze. Yeah. Idk man. If it was me, I'd shovel all the peat out and start fresh. Weather looks way better going forward. I'll let other people chime in from here.


----------



## situman

Just throw'er down and hope for best as someone likes to say. Why overthink it. It's just grass seeds. Seeds are cheap but your time is valuable.


----------



## Chris LI

I would survey and add more seed and peat moss where needed. You may want to remove the excessive amounts of peat moss that piled up, if that area is really uneven. However, I hate to disturb anything growing well, so it may be best to leave it alone. When adding more seed and peat moss, I've used flat soled shoes with a non-aggressive tread, instead of work boots. Also, I've hand sprinkled the peat moss, with grinding it up in my hands. This was to be gentle while walking on the grass babies that made it and not smother anything with chunks of peat moss. Good luck!


----------



## steffen707

I looked and there are some areas with decent seedlings, so I think I'll just avoid those and spread seed on the other areas, time to go to the store!


----------



## Chris LI

steffen707 said:


> I looked and there are some areas with decent seedlings, so I think I'll just avoid those and spread seed on the other areas, time to go to the store!


You will be amazed at how resilient the seedlings are, and how much more seed will germinate. Sometimes, just a little extra in the bare spots goes a long way, as does some TLC.


----------



## steffen707

Well I spread two bags of potting soil in the washed out areas, threw down 3lbs of seed, rolled it, spread 3.5bags peatmoss and watered in.

Let's see how round two goes. I left about 1500 square feet alone, spread on 2200ish.


----------



## jrubb42

Respect man. LFG.


----------



## steffen707

Lol, I love those nic cage movies.
Couple awesome points, there are spots where I rolled the lawn and put down peatmoss and the baby grass from a week ago is already, or still popping through. Figured the peatmoss rolling would have smothered everything.

Also look how this sprinkler is eroding the peatmoss, this wasn't happening when I had the tackifier down, leading me to think in "normal, non-9.5 inches in 60 hours seedings" that tackifier would have worked very well.


----------



## steffen707

BTW, it's way way easier to see grass babies with a peatmoss background.


----------



## lbb091919

I applaud your perseverance through everything that's happened and it's so nice to see green babies even after all that.


----------



## steffen707

lbb091919 said:


> I applaud your perseverance through everything that's happened and it's so nice to see green babies even after all that.


Thank you, hopefully the grass survives the winter. I'm just hoping for enough mowing before frost.


----------



## jrubb42

steffen707 said:


> lbb091919 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I applaud your perseverance through everything that's happened and it's so nice to see green babies even after all that.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you, hopefully the grass survives the winter. I'm just hoping for enough mowing before frost.
Click to expand...

With the way the weather has been up here all year, hopefully we have a late start to winter.


----------



## jwill

Nice job man! Good work to recover from that crazy rain.


----------



## steffen707

The green haze is coming! That really dark area back there is where all the peatmoss washed to. Glad I just left it alone. Couple interesting thoughts on this, either the seedlings clung to the dirt and sprouted, or they stuck to the peatmoss and sprouted. Either way they're able to pop up through all that peatmoss, so the next time I spread peatmoss, I don't need to be so particular about only spreading 1/8-1/4" of it. If a spot has too much it'll probably be fine.


----------



## steffen707

I broke a $43 bracket that holds my powerflow onto my JD so I made a mulching block off plate 







cuz the mulching kit is a PITA to put on and off. Gator blades with block off plate worked well, except my grass was a bit high and I had some clumping. I started to rake it cuz the bracket will take a week to arrive at the dealer.so........

I bought the best Stihl backpack blower they make. My dad has the 600model,it's nice. This one is nicer, but I won't tell him. :lol:

I can't leave clumpy grass on the lawn.


----------



## jwill

That blower is a beast!


----------



## steffen707

My dad's first stihl backpack blower lasted like 20+ years, so I figured I'd splurge.


----------



## steffen707




----------



## steffen707

A few observations based on my reno, your mileage may vary and i may have already said these before, but.

*1. * If peatmoss gets washed away, only remove it from areas that you don't want grass. My settled peatmoss areas have tons of green babies.
*2.* Grass will grow drenched, so from now on i'm going to aire on the side of wet than dry. My thick green areas were washed away with 9.5 inches of rain AND irrigation during the week and it still sprouted, or at least 1 of 3 cultivars has.
*3.* Seed will wash away. I don't know if it washed WITH the peatmoss, or the same as peatmoss, BUT....
*4.* Seed to soil contact is super important (I know the guide says this) but this is amazingly important. Without it, I would have no green except the washed out final resting locations.
*5.* My grass has been extremely strong. It sounds like other people think if you touch baby grass it will die. I walked all over my lawn, used about a 300lb lawn roller (half filled 690lb Brinly poly one) and my peatmoss roller on most of my reno. Not only did the grass continue to grow, but it has popped up through the new peatmoss. Now i wouldn't recommend walking on the lawn until you have to, but if you need to add seed or peatmoss because your reno got jacked up, I wouldn't worry about it.
*6.* Don't screw up the layer of sod/roots just below the crown of the grass blades. my aggressive rider mowing caused the deck to scrape off this layer of sod/roots/soil in many spots. As others have pointed out, this layer is what keeps the ground in tact and provides spots for the seed to "stick". a push mower set to scalp would probably be the safest way to get out as much of the dead grass as possible without running the risk of having the deck/blades dig in and tear up the sod/roots/soil. This was my number 1 screw up on my maiden reno.


Time will tell if the grass that has sprouted in the peatmoss washout final resting place will actually put roots down to the soil below, but I would assume it will. I'm concerned because there could be up to an inch or more of peatmoss in that area.


----------



## steffen707

Dang, extended forecast looks nice!


----------



## steffen707

Wow, apparently the seeds do sit in the scarifyer slits and grow in rows..... Neat!


----------



## steffen707

I decided to roll the dice and spray some NEXT green start and rgs onto the reno, got two tire stripes and some foot prints in the baby grass, we'll see if it kills it or not.


----------



## steffen707

On the non reno side I've been mowing every two days and slowly lowering from 3.5 to 2". Today I applied 0.3oz/m of Tnex and 4oz/m chelated iron. Combined with my fall nitrogen blitz lower and frequent cutting, I'm hoping the grass fills in some less full spots.

I also planted some barenbrug RTF in some bare spots in the backyard. Trying to test if RTF does a better or worse job than my KBG reno in the more shaded and higher traffic areas.

The little brown spot near the driveway is where I spilled fertilizer the other day and instead of vacuuming it up I just brushed it into the grass..... 
I certainly had a deeper dark green at 3.5"


----------



## Robs92k

That baby grass is resilient…I'd be surprised if you lost much. I walked all ove mine unfortunately pulling up matting. Had some pretty deep footprints and gashes. It turned out great.

Certainly looks like it's doing well. Front is gorgeous. Keep it up.

Lol on your little burn…that'll be fine in a month. Maybe this'll make you feel better…middle left behind the tall grass.


----------



## steffen707

Robs92k said:


> That baby grass is resilient…I'd be surprised if you lost much. I walked all ove mine unfortunately pulling up matting. Had some pretty deep footprints and gashes. It turned out great.
> 
> Certainly looks like it's doing well. Front is gorgeous. Keep it up.
> 
> Lol on your little burn…that'll be fine in a month. Maybe this'll make you feel better…middle left behind the tall grass.


Oopsie daisy. :roll: 
Yeah it'll be okay. I also have about a square foot by my hose where I mixed up some glyphosate and had some spillage on a new backpack sprayer because one of the lids wasn't on tight.

Doh, only doing that on the driveway from now on.


----------



## Robs92k

Lmao! I often mix beer and apps…should cut back on that.

Feel free to scrub that post to keep your journal clean.


----------



## steffen707

It's all good, what's your favorite barley pop for applying apps?


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> For whatever reason, the heavy peat moss areas are taking a lot longer to work themselves out, and they get really stressed in the summer. The effects of washouts can linger for years it seems.


My reno has 2 very large heavy peat moss collection spots. Did you try thinning out these spots using a pro plug to transplant them to more thin areas? That's what i think i'll try next spring after seeing how things look.


----------



## Robs92k

steffen707 said:


> It's all good, what's your favorite barley pop for applying apps?


These days Krombacher Pils or Corona…depends on the temp. I had an incident (see above) that included IPAs. You?


----------



## steffen707

For warm weather outdoors, Oso Infectious Groove, Lineys summer shandy, or Truly Lemonaide.
But the beer fridge has a lot of all day IPA, Bells Two hearted, Guinness, a few Octoberfests.

I'll occasionally get a hankering for Corona with a lime.


----------



## jwill

Coming along. Look better every day!


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For whatever reason, the heavy peat moss areas are taking a lot longer to work themselves out, and they get really stressed in the summer. The effects of washouts can linger for years it seems.
> 
> 
> 
> My reno has 2 very large heavy peat moss collection spots. Did you try thinning out these spots using a pro plug to transplant them to more thin areas? That's what i think i'll try next spring after seeing how things look.
Click to expand...

There are way too many spots for me to move plugs. A scarifier might work better to get rid of the weaker grass. I don't plan to dethatch until next year at the earliest, but we'll see.

After I got heavy rain, the peat moss created ripples across the yard, kind of like an ocean floor.



When I mow low (below 3/4"), I can still see those peat moss ripples and they are slightly lighter green. This pic isn't great, but it's the best view I have.



If I had a mulligan on my reno, I would probably try to spread out that washed up peat rather than let it be. I let it go because it seemed like most of the germ was happening there, but I later found out that too much germ isn't necessarily good. I'm not saying you should mess with it. Just saying what I would do if I went back in time.


----------



## Robs92k

steffen707 said:


> For warm weather outdoors, Oso Infectious Groove, Lineys summer shandy, or Truly Lemonaide.
> But the beer fridge has a lot of all day IPA, Bells Two hearted, Guinness, a few Octoberfests.
> 
> I'll occasionally get a hankering for Corona with a lime.


Solid selection! I've had just about all of those at some point. I just can't have more than two beers to choose from…by the time I get to beer:30 I'm done making decisions for the day.

Interested to see what happens in the moss-out areas next year. I wouldn't have thought that would be an issue.

Would you add a tackifier or blankets?


----------



## JerseyGreens

I'd leave the pest moss piles. I have them everywhere as well and it looks like fine fescue....

I'm thinning them out this year and letting mother nature do the rest.


----------



## steffen707

JerseyGreens said:


> I'd leave the pest moss piles. I have them everywhere as well and it looks like fine fescue....
> 
> I'm thinning them out this year and letting mother nature do the rest.


Yeah i'm going to leave the peat piles now that its very green there. I can fix it next year if I need to.


Robs92k said:


> Would you add a tackifier or blankets?


HA! I DID add tackifier. Only to the front part of my house. It worked great with normal type rains, but I got 9.5" in 60 hours, so..... Can't blame the tackifier. I need to read up on the blanket thing. That may be the ticket for my future renos.



bf7 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For whatever reason, the heavy peat moss areas are taking a lot longer to work themselves out, and they get really stressed in the summer. The effects of washouts can linger for years it seems.
> 
> 
> 
> My reno has 2 very large heavy peat moss collection spots. Did you try thinning out these spots using a pro plug to transplant them to more thin areas? That's what i think i'll try next spring after seeing how things look.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are way too many spots for me to move plugs. A scarifier might work better to get rid of the weaker grass. I don't plan to dethatch until next year at the earliest, but we'll see.
> 
> After I got heavy rain, the peat moss created ripples across the yard, kind of like an ocean floor.
> 
> 
> 
> When I mow low (below 3/4"), I can still see those peat moss ripples and they are slightly lighter green. This pic isn't great, but it's the best view I have.
> 
> 
> 
> If I had a mulligan on my reno, I would probably try to spread out that washed up peat rather than let it be. I let it go because it seemed like most of the germ was happening there, but I later found out that too much germ isn't necessarily good. I'm not saying you should mess with it. Just saying what I would do if I went back in time.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm going to see how my washed up peat areas are next year, and if they're problematic, then I might proactively rake up any future reno peat pile ups. I have those ripples in some spots as well.


----------



## Liquidstone

I'm worried about some of the peat build up I have as well, especially after seeing @bf7's pics of what is to come. Yet another reason like you mentioned to consider netting. It's not cheap for good reason.


----------



## steffen707

Liquidstone said:


> I'm worried about some of the peat build up I have as well, especially after seeing @bf7's pics of what is to come. Yet another reason like you mentioned to consider netting. It's not cheap for good reason.


Is the netting 100% weed seed free?


----------



## lbb091919

I don't know if the blankets would have even handled 9" in 2 days. That's some serious rain.

I originally had the Pennington straw blanket which claimed 100% weed free but I was a little suspicious of that. The Futerras are "thermally refined" wood fibers which makes me think any weed seeds that do find their way in are destroyed during processing.


----------



## steffen707

lbb091919 said:


> I don't know if the blankets would have even handled 9" in 2 days. That's some serious rain.
> 
> I originally had the Pennington straw blanket which claimed 100% weed free but I was a little suspicious of that. The Futerras are "thermally refined" wood fibers which makes me think any weed seeds that do find their way in are destroyed during processing.


I'm going to look into that for next fall. Reinders has 8'x100' blankets for like $40 I think.


----------



## bf7

Liquidstone said:


> I'm worried about some of the peat build up I have as well, especially after seeing @bf7's pics of what is to come. Yet another reason like you mentioned to consider netting. It's not cheap for good reason.


Don't worry about it. Spend more time and energy on the bare spots. The grass in the peat moss might look stressed the first summer, but it should even out over time. You won't even notice them in the spring and fall when the lawn is loving life.


----------



## steffen707

Today is 14 days after initial seeding and 7 days after the second seeding. Still have some large more shady areas that don't have much grass, hoping next 7-14 days we see some progress.


----------



## lbb091919

Wow! I don't think you have anything to worry about especially after everything that's happened. This is all going to fill in so well.


----------



## jwill

I agree. Looking really good. Nice recovery from that crazy amount of rain!


----------



## steffen707

I sprayed my non-reno yard with prodiamine 65 for the first time. I dunno if i'm early or late for fall pre-emergent, but i let er fly today.

I'm pretty new to spraying the yard, just started this year, but have already acquired 2-4 gal backpack sprayers and a push 12gal chapin.

I've been practicing with stuff that hasn't mattered if you screw it up a bit, biostimulants and some low dose fertilizers.

Spraying glyph on the reno didn't require a ton of precision, and i used a dye. So it was more practice, but with 1 gallon per 300sf, it took much slower pace or multiple passes, so its not like 1gal/1k spraying.

But today I nailed the prodiamine application. No dye, and finished the 4 gallons exactly on 4000 SF area. What a good feeling!


----------



## Robs92k

steffen707 said:


> I sprayed my non-reno yard with prodiamine 65 for the first time. I dunno if i'm early or late for fall pre-emergent, but i let er fly today.
> 
> I'm pretty new to spraying the yard, just started this year, but have already acquired 2-4 gal backpack sprayers and a push 12gal chapin.
> 
> I've been practicing with stuff that hasn't mattered if you screw it up a bit, biostimulants and some low dose fertilizers.
> 
> Spraying glyph on the reno didn't require a ton of precision, and i used a dye. So it was more practice, but with 1 gallon per 300sf, it took much slower pace or multiple passes, so its not like 1gal/1k spraying.
> 
> But today I nailed the prodiamine application. No dye, and finished the 4 gallons exactly on 4000 SF area. What a good feeling!


 Nicely done…agreed, VERY satisfying!


----------



## steffen707

It's tough to notice the changes day to day, but week by week is definitely a huge change. 
Looks nice in the morning.
The area by my oak tree must have had almost all the seed wash away as the height of the grass there now is very short.




This sprinkler head has a LA - Low Angle nozzle on it to spray under the oak branches, its the only one that's pushed the peatmoss and some soil away from the head. It'll probably all fill in.


----------



## steffen707

Got some germination on my Barenbrug RTF I sowed last minute in the backyard.


----------



## steffen707

:bandit: Dang that's looking good this morning with the dew and fog!


----------



## lbb091919

Morning dew pics just hit different. I can already see a little blue hue!


----------



## Liquidstone

This looks great, especially after all the rain you've gotten!


----------



## steffen707

Well some before pics







And after the 1" Mow with a fiskars push.









And a few of the dumb anti scalp wheel marks from my big heavy John deere gx345.


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> :bandit: Dang that's looking good this morning with the dew and fog!


These reno dew pics are the best. If you really want to get excited, take some at night with the flash on.


----------



## steffen707

Just picked these up from Amazon. Should make spraying stuff easier.


----------



## steffen707

Anybody try cytogro or hydretain on their reno?


----------



## steffen707

We're at 14 DAG started on the original seeding. Seed to soil contact is clutch!


----------



## jwill

Looking really good!


----------



## steffen707

Well nobody got back to me on the cytogro, so i'll be the guinnea pig I guess.

from https://www.reinders.com/products/57310/ "CytoGro® is an EPA registered hormone biostimulant derived from seaweed extracts. A consistent source of cytokinins and auxins, CytoGro *stimulates root growth; encourages tiller, rhizome and stolon production; increases vigor; and improves stress tolerance* for fine turf, lawns, trees, landscape ornamentals and flowering plants. Additionally, CytoGro contains hormone cofactors, such as amino acids, vitamins, proteins, carboxylic acids, mannates, and sea minerals, which allow the product to be effective at low rates. By amplifying root mass, CytoGro not only improves plant health, it also aids in the uptake of water, fertilizers and pesticides, saving both time and money.

Benefits of Use:

Promotes deeper, denser root systems
Enhances lateral growth
Speeds recovery and grow-in
Increases stress tolerance
Increases transplant survival
Maximizes nutrient uptake
Improves salinity tolerance
Retards turf senescence
Minimizes frost damage
Effective on all turf and plants
Affordable and easy to use
Compatible with growth regulators
Problem Conditions Improved

Shallow or poorly developed root systems
Weak or thin areas in turf
Wear in high traffic areas
Damage from drought, insects or temperature extremes
Harsh winter condition"
EPA submitted label: https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/058199-00003-20060627.pdf

What could go wrong, right? :shock:

It was $151 per gallon, or $60 for a quart from yard mastery. Expensive, but the application rate is 0.2oz-0.8oz/k. If I follow the "lawns rate" info on the label, its 8oz/10k in spring with 2-4oz/10k/month after that. 
So 8oz in march or april, and another 12-24oz for rest of year........Maybe I should find somebody that wants to buy half the bottle. :roll:

Yesterday I put down on the reno
7.4lbs of anderson 10-10-10 i had laying around for a spon feed of nitrogen
9oz/k of hydretain,
3oz/k of RGS
10ml/k of cytogro
and watered it in a bit. Note, I didn't have any adverse reactions to mixing hydretain, rgs and cytogro in same tank with 4 gallons water for my 4k area.

I think the directions somewhere said to water at least 1/10th inch of water to wash the hydretain off the grass blades, and I have to admit, I'm not sure if cytogro was supposed to be foliarly absorbed or not....  The directions only discussed foliar spray in the shrubs/bedding plants, nutritional deficiencies area, so i took that as, for turf its not a foliar spray. Thoughts?

put down on rest of lawn
3oz/k Humic12
3oz/k RGS
3oz/k AIR8

I also sprayed the front 36" of my non-reno area with the hydretain/rgs/cytogo concotion. I've got a few spots that the summer heat has harmed. Hoping to get my crisp lawn line back.

So far the reno looks no different. Daily changes are very hard to notice now, but week over week photos you can definitely tell more grass is coming in.


----------



## steffen707

Mowed for 2nd time at 1" according to fiskars level indicator.


----------



## steffen707

I try to look at it every two days now. Some of the slow germinating spots are coming in. Need another Mow tonight I think. It definitely looks great from the road in the mornings.

How long does it take for roots to grow downwards? I stepped wrong on a spot and the grass was just pushed off the top of the dirt, like the roots were only 1/8" long.

I've backed off to once a day watering now. Planning to go less frequent maybe starting Saturday.


----------



## bf7

I like that color.

Keep mowing as much as you can (within reason). The roots will get stronger. Using a manual reel, you don't even need to worry about the mower turns.


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> I like that color.
> 
> Keep mowing as much as you can (within reason). The roots will get stronger. Using a manual reel, you don't even need to worry about the mower turns.


Like every 3 days?


----------



## bf7

You could do it everyday if you wanted lol

Is it done pouting? Mowing will really help to thicken it up and stimulate horizonal growth, so if you aren't damaging the turf, the more the better.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Coming along very nice - this is about to takeoff with N and mowing.


----------



## steffen707

Sweet @bf7! Mowing it again tonight. I should have last night but this has been a busy week. Wife in Virginia, kids to school, double header flag football, boy scouts meeting, business dinner last night.....whew!


----------



## steffen707

JerseyGreens said:


> Coming along very nice - this is about to takeoff with N and mowing.


Mowing tonight and some more N on Sunday I think.

The reno guide says to apply .25lb N at 14DAG and 28DAG, but i've been seeing some youtubers (who are on this forum)putting down .50 N every week. That seems like a lot, but.....

should I be putting down .20-.25lbs N weekly now, or every other week like the guide says?


----------



## JerseyGreens

steffen707 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coming along very nice - this is about to takeoff with N and mowing.
> 
> 
> 
> Mowing tonight and some more N on Sunday I think.
> 
> The reno guide says to apply .25lb N at 14DAG and 28DAG, but i've been seeing some youtubers (who are on this forum)putting down .50 N every week. That seems like a lot, but.....
> 
> should I be putting down .20-.25lbs N weekly now, or every other week like the guide says?
Click to expand...

If I recall I wasn't putting down crazy amounts of N and just followed the guide.

After it's looking mature/thick then move to the fall N blitz recommendations. Weather cooperating of course.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coming along very nice - this is about to takeoff with N and mowing.
> 
> 
> 
> Mowing tonight and some more N on Sunday I think.
> 
> The reno guide says to apply .25lb N at 14DAG and 28DAG, but i've been seeing some youtubers (who are on this forum)putting down .50 N every week. That seems like a lot, but.....
> 
> should I be putting down .20-.25lbs N weekly now, or every other week like the guide says?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I recall I wasn't putting down crazy amounts of N and just followed the guide.
> 
> After it's looking mature/thick then move to the fall N blitz recommendations. Weather cooperating of course.
Click to expand...

Agree - 0.5 lbs weekly is more of a blitz rate for mature grass. A little aggressive for babies, IMO - I noticed burn on the babies with less N than that, although I was applying foliar. Maybe you could get away with more with granular.

Any time you are applying foliar spray, even on mature grass, I would not exceed 0.3 lbs N in a single app.


----------



## steffen707

Sounds good @bf7 and @JerseyGreens , I appreciate the input.

I thought 0.5lbs weekly was even too much for mature grass.

I'll stick with the reno guide then. =)

I had FOMO "my lawn could be growing faster". lol


----------



## steffen707

Time to get a compressed air rifle. Need to kill some squirrels.


----------



## steffen707

14DAS first seeding, 7DAS after 2nd seeding


29DAS for first seeding and 22DAS for second seeding.


Do I wish it was better?, sure.... But for 9" of rain in week 1 it's pretty green. I just hope the grass babies are strong enough for the upcoming frost/wisconsin winter.

This picture is showing my heavily trafficked area in foreground and reno past the green fence.


----------



## JP900++

Not looking bad. You're going to be really happy in the spring I think.


----------



## steffen707

JP900++ said:


> Not looking bad. You're going to be really happy in the spring I think.


I seeded a small spot a few years ago with ***/PRG mix and i was very surprised how it looked the next spring.

I've never mowed low before, but i'm going to try to maintain that 1" HOC on the reno moving forward. Using the fiskars manual push right now.

I'm crossing my fingers Allett comes out with a battery 20" soon. I really think i'll like the verticutter, dethatcher, scarifier ect. cartridges all for 1 machine. My "shed" is already kinda busy with a scotts elite spreader, chapin 12 gal sprayer, peatmoss spreader, pull behind aerator, sun joe, manual reel mower JD GX345, rakes upon rakes. I'm missing other stuff i'm sure.

Oh, I also Mowed it yesterday again at 1". Trying to do every 2-3 days.


----------



## steffen707

For anybody that plans to use a snow fence like this, do yourself a favor and use stakes with plastic hooks. My original stakes were smooth, so the zip ties eventually slid down, bunching the fence up. I should be able to Mow under the fence now..... DUH


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> For anybody that plans to use a snow fence like this, do yourself a favor and use stakes with plastic hooks. My original stakes were smooth, so the zip ties eventually slid down, bunching the fence up. I should be able to Mow under the fence now..... DUH


This is the most serious reno protection I've ever seen lol


----------



## Liquidstone

This looks great man. Way to hang in there!!


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For anybody that plans to use a snow fence like this, do yourself a favor and use stakes with plastic hooks. My original stakes were smooth, so the zip ties eventually slid down, bunching the fence up. I should be able to Mow under the fence now..... DUH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the most serious reno protection I've ever seen lol
Click to expand...

Big protection for a big renovation? :thumbup:

Thanks @Liquidstone! Excited for spring..... 6 months from now, lol


----------



## jrubb42

steffen707 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coming along very nice - this is about to takeoff with N and mowing.
> 
> 
> 
> Mowing tonight and some more N on Sunday I think.
> 
> The reno guide says to apply .25lb N at 14DAG and 28DAG, but i've been seeing some youtubers (who are on this forum)putting down .50 N every week. That seems like a lot, but.....
> 
> should I be putting down .20-.25lbs N weekly now, or every other week like the guide says?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing this is referring to me... I'm definitely not putting down 0.5 lbs of N every week on my new renovation. I recommended that for established grass that was very thin coming out of summer.

I hit it hard my first couple of apps and but have backed way off since then, giving it low doses every 2 to 3 weeks depending on how it's looking. Just wanted to make sure there's no confusion.


----------



## steffen707

jrubb42 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coming along very nice - this is about to takeoff with N and mowing.
> 
> 
> 
> Mowing tonight and some more N on Sunday I think.
> 
> The reno guide says to apply .25lb N at 14DAG and 28DAG, but i've been seeing some youtubers (who are on this forum)putting down .50 N every week. That seems like a lot, but.....
> 
> should I be putting down .20-.25lbs N weekly now, or every other week like the guide says?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm guessing this is referring to me... I'm definitely not putting down 0.5 lbs of N every week on my new renovation. I recommended that for established grass that was very thin coming out of summer.
> 
> I hit it hard my first couple of apps and but have backed way off since then, giving it low doses every 2 to 3 weeks depending on how it's looking. Just wanted to make sure there's no confusion.
Click to expand...

I must have misunderstood you in the video. Thanks for the clarification. =)


----------



## steffen707

I got in a quick Mow tonight after my son's flag football double header. It was completely dark, I used a headlamp. Hopefully I didn't screw up any of the reno. It was kinda nice Cu I couldn't see the grass all that well, it felt like I had way more coverage, lol.


----------



## Liquidstone

steffen707 said:


> I got in a quick Mow tonight after my son's flag football double header. It was completely dark, I used a headlamp. Hopefully I didn't screw up any of the reno. It was kinda nice Cu I couldn't see the grass all that well, it felt like I had way more coverage, lol.


I can hear the neighbors from here!


----------



## steffen707

Liquidstone said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got in a quick Mow tonight after my son's flag football double header. It was completely dark, I used a headlamp. Hopefully I didn't screw up any of the reno. It was kinda nice Cu I couldn't see the grass all that well, it felt like I had way more coverage, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> I can hear the neighbors from here!
Click to expand...

 :lol:


----------



## steffen707

Did somebody say "HUMP DAY?!"



We went to a "Safari" in Wisconsin. The camels were very friendly and tried entering the van to eat our bucket of food. :lol:


----------



## Robs92k

^wth?!? Lived in WI my whole life and haven't seen that…cows, yes…that, no. Lol…way to represent.

Looking awesome @steffen707 !


----------



## steffen707

Robs92k said:


> ^wth?!? Lived in WI my whole life and haven't seen that…cows, yes…that, no. Lol…way to represent.
> 
> Looking awesome @steffen707 !


Thanks! It's called Samba Safari in Neshkoro, WI. I think it's new this year. If you go I recommend during the week, not weekend.


----------



## steffen707

Another Mow at 1". There were parts that the grass was so thick I had to push a bit harder. Hahaha take that 9.5" reno rain!


----------



## steffen707

Applied 0.25lb/k AMS. The grannuals were not consistent shape so it was hard to get right spreader setting, also only needed 4.64lbs, so it was not a lot of material either. Ended up doing three passes with AMS and sprayed 12 gallons solution of tenacity and RGS over the AMS because I had my sprinklers blown out yesterday.
Only needed 4 gallons for 4ksqft but figured triple the water shouldn't hurt.

Got one of these sprinklers on it..... No idea how long I should water each spot. 30mins?


----------



## bf7

I would aim for about 0.1 - 0.2 inches of water per day so you end up with around 1 inch per week.


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> I would aim for about 0.1 - 0.2 inches of water per day so you end up with around 1 inch per week.


Looks like I need some tuna cans.


----------



## jskierko

Reno looks awesome, so full. Time for the fences to come down!


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would aim for about 0.1 - 0.2 inches of water per day so you end up with around 1 inch per week.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like I need some tuna cans.
Click to expand...

Rain gauges work better. You can get them at big box places for $5.

Given that we are getting close to October, you can probably start dialing back that water a little bit. Maybe go for the low end of that range. You should get some supplemental rainfall and help from the nighttime lows.


----------



## steffen707

So for all the sand guys out there. Let's say you have a 1"HOC and start sand capping and eventually you have 1" of sand capping. Does the crown of the grass stay at 1.25" under the sand, and the blades are now 2.25" long, or does the crown of the plant migrate up to near sand level?


----------



## JerseyGreens

steffen707 said:


> So for all the sand guys out there. Let's say you have a 1"HOC and start sand capping and eventually you have 1" of sand capping. Does the crown of the grass stay at 1.25" under the sand, and the blades are now 2.25" long, or does the crown of the plant migrate up to near sand level?


That's a question for Bill Nye the Science Guy.

I have nowhere near an inch of sand anywhere but I'll keep this mind next time I pull a soil core to see what's going on.


----------



## lbb091919

Check out Connor Ward's aeration video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaxZ1i5z6jw&t=309s&ab_channel=ConnorWard

At 4:00 he talks about how the cores are mostly sand because he's top dressed it so many times. The cores look at least 2" long. I think his HOC was like 1/2" in the video too. I guess you'd be fine until you've sanded your yard more times than he has?


----------



## steffen707

lbb091919 said:


> Check out Connor Ward's aeration video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 4:00 he talks about how the cores are mostly sand because he's top dressed it so many times. The cores look at least 2" long. I think his HOC was like 1/2" in the video too. I guess you'd be fine until you've sanded your yard more times than he has?


Well I just asked the same question in his video, maybe he'll reply.


----------



## steffen707

JerseyGreens said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So for all the sand guys out there. Let's say you have a 1"HOC and start sand capping and eventually you have 1" of sand capping. Does the crown of the grass stay at 1.25" under the sand, and the blades are now 2.25" long, or does the crown of the plant migrate up to near sand level?
> 
> 
> 
> That's a question for Bill Nye the Science Guy.
> 
> I have nowhere near an inch of sand anywhere but I'll keep this mind next time I pull a soil core to see what's going on.
Click to expand...

Yeah, science! 
I'm waiting for your results, whenever that happens. =)


----------



## steffen707

Well the man said the crown migrates up.


----------



## situman

If hes pulling up mostly sand, there really is no point in doing core aerations. Sand dont compact. And hes just pulling up more poa seeds to the surface. He has a poa problem and this is newly reno'd.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Didn't get a close look at a core but I definitely see OM with the sand in them. If there was no OM coming out then core aeration would be useless.


----------



## steffen707

JerseyGreens said:


> Didn't get a close look at a core but I definitely see OM with the sand in them. If there was no OM coming out then core aeration would be useless.


Doesn't there have to be OM in each core, even if it's a tiny bit? After all the grass, crowns, rhyzomes and roots are all OM.

I suppose @situman did say "mostly sand".


----------



## JerseyGreens

Good point there will always be OM.

Even a grass catcher can't get every clipping.


----------



## bf7

@steffen707 are you thinking about sanding your reno already?


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> @steffen707 are you thinking about sanding your reno already?


Hahaha, not yet, but maybe next fall? :thumbup:


----------



## lbb091919

I already want to on mine too!


----------



## steffen707

lbb091919 said:


> I already want to on mine too!


I need to see what "Elite Cultivars" do and fill in, then BEACHFRONT AVENUE!


----------



## steffen707

I had to leave my grass babies Tuesday morning. I'm at a conference in Vegas. I know what happens in Vegas is supposed to stay here, but I got to try out this great tractor last night at The Rio!


----------



## steffen707

Can you Mow with a reel mower if the grass is wet?


----------



## uts

Wet as in dew on the grass or wet as in soil being soft from the watering schedule in a reno?


----------



## steffen707

uts said:


> Wet as in dew on the grass or wet as in soil being soft from the watering schedule in a reno?


Wet from rain from a few hours ago?

It's supposed to rain tomorrow, and I haven't cut my lawn in 6 days, just got back from a work trip.


----------



## bf7

Wet grass is fine. If the soil is too wet, the mower can pull out babies. Try tugging on a few blades to see if they come out easily.

With a lightweight manual reel, even damp soil is probably not a big deal.


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> Wet grass is fine. If the soil is too wet, the mower can pull out babies. Try tugging on a few blades to see if they come out easily.
> 
> With a lightweight manual reel, even damp soil is probably not a big deal.


Sweet, the rain was delayed until later today so i got a mow in. 
When I came home I had a tiger lawn.....looks like maybe baby grass that is very fine mixed in with thicker more mature grass that has darkened up some?


----------



## steffen707

I also think i discovered why my backyard has done so poorly over the last several fall/springs.
I think my guy blows the irrigation out about a month too early, so the grass back by the pines starve for water. the grass below hardly grew at all in the 6 days i was gone, where the rest of the lawn was 1/2" or so thicker.

I'm back to manually watering the reno.
Now i need to figure out how to blow out my own system without a large compressor.....Anybody do this? I own a 40gal compressor, but its in storage until i get a shop again. so right now all i have is a small pancake style one.


----------



## bf7

The tiger lawn could be overcrowded spots from washout. Should even out some with more N.

Can't help with the irrigation. I manually water all year


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> The tiger lawn could be overcrowded spots from washout. Should even out some with more N.
> 
> Can't help with the irrigation. I manually water all year


Hmmm, time will tell. it has tiger pattern all over though. hmmmm


----------



## uts

steffen707 said:


> Now i need to figure out how to blow out my own system without a large compressor.....Anybody do this? I own a 40gal compressor, but its in storage until i get a shop again. so right now all i have is a small pancake style one.


Depending on how big the system is you could rig together a few small ones (If you can borrow from someone) or just rent from HD. I think pete1313 showed in one of his journals how he does his. Any reason to not get the 40gal ond out?


----------



## steffen707

uts said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now i need to figure out how to blow out my own system without a large compressor.....Anybody do this? I own a 40gal compressor, but its in storage until i get a shop again. so right now all i have is a small pancake style one.
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on how big the system is you could rig together a few small ones (If you can borrow from someone) or just rent from HD. I think pete1313 showed in one of his journals how he does his. Any reason to not get the 40gal ond out?
Click to expand...

No room for it in the garage right now. =(


----------



## jskierko

uts said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now i need to figure out how to blow out my own system without a large compressor.....Anybody do this? I own a 40gal compressor, but its in storage until i get a shop again. so right now all i have is a small pancake style one.
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on how big the system is you could rig together a few small ones (If you can borrow from someone) or just rent from HD. I think pete1313 showed in one of his journals how he does his. Any reason to not get the 40gal ond out?
Click to expand...

I bought a 15 gallon one from a neighbor during a garage sale and plan to do my own system this fall. It'll be nice to not be tied to someone else's schedule when it comes to stopping irrigation. I will just keep my eye on the forecast and plan on closing down the system based on that. I have read up on it and many people say its doable with a pancake compressor... just takes a long time letting it refill between zones. I also got a blowout adapter on Amazon for <$20, so just doing it myself once will pay for itself + the added convenience of operating on my schedule. I'll post about it once I end up doing it. I started my system up in the spring and it took all of 5 minutes. For what they charge to start-up/test, it's a total scam.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Tiger pattern is most likely from N granules only getting to some plants. That's why 0.25lbs per week is key because it will even out once the lighter color plants get hit with N.

Prefer 0.25 weekly vs 0.5 bi-weekly on renos for this reason.


----------



## steffen707

jskierko said:


> uts said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now i need to figure out how to blow out my own system without a large compressor.....Anybody do this? I own a 40gal compressor, but its in storage until i get a shop again. so right now all i have is a small pancake style one.
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on how big the system is you could rig together a few small ones (If you can borrow from someone) or just rent from HD. I think pete1313 showed in one of his journals how he does his. Any reason to not get the 40gal ond out?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bought a 15 gallon one from a neighbor during a garage sale and plan to do my own system this fall. It'll be nice to not be tied to someone else's schedule when it comes to stopping irrigation. I will just keep my eye on the forecast and plan on closing down the system based on that. I have read up on it and many people say its doable with a pancake compressor... just takes a long time letting it refill between zones. I also got a blowout adapter on Amazon for <$20, so just doing it myself once will pay for itself + the added convenience of operating on my schedule. I'll post about it once I end up doing it. I started my system up in the spring and it took all of 5 minutes. For what they charge to start-up/test, it's a total scam.
Click to expand...

I start mine up on my own, should probably shut it down on my own too. Can you provide a link to the Amazon adapter you got?


----------



## steffen707

JerseyGreens said:


> Tiger pattern is most likely from N granules only getting to some plants. That's why 0.25lbs per week is key because it will even out once the lighter color plants get hit with N.
> 
> Prefer 0.25 weekly vs 0.5 bi-weekly on renos for this reason.


Ohh, hadn't thought of that, makes sense. I'm due tomorrow for some more N. instead of using a 21% nitrogen source, i'd rather use a 10% with twice as much material.

I thought I was supposed to use .25N every 2 weeks. Should I be doing every 1 @JerseyGreens ?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Based on pictures I'd say you can do 0.25 weekly now.

Stick with Urea 46-0-0 or AMS 21-0-0. If your pH was on the low side use more Urea.


----------



## uts

steffen707 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tiger pattern is most likely from N granules only getting to some plants. That's why 0.25lbs per week is key because it will even out once the lighter color plants get hit with N.
> 
> Prefer 0.25 weekly vs 0.5 bi-weekly on renos for this reason.
> 
> 
> 
> Ohh, hadn't thought of that, makes sense. I'm due tomorrow for some more N. instead of using a 21% nitrogen source, i'd rather use a 10% with twice as much material.
> 
> I thought I was supposed to use .25N every 2 weeks. Should I be doing every 1 @JerseyGreens ?
Click to expand...

Mix some milo or anything similar to get a better spread of the urea. It will add some slow release and P and both will be beneficial.


----------



## bf7

Why not spray the N? You are doing a low enough rate, and the coverage is way more even.


----------



## steffen707

I got a quick Mow in on the reno before it started raining.

I'm neglecting the old lawn.........i think it knows I'm going to nuke half of it next year.


----------



## steffen707

I hit it with like .1575N/k yesterday and got a mow in too. This time I sprayed some Green Start I had leftover on it. That's why the weird amount.

@bf7 , do you have experience with spraying N? Any suggestions? I'm thinking if my spood feeding grannual is causing the leapard spots, I want to continue doing the spray.

Sadly, when I look closely at the lighter spots, there almost appears to be brown grass blades there already. I'll try to snap a pic at lunch. =/


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> I hit it with like .1575N/k yesterday and got a mow in too. This time I sprayed some Green Start I had leftover on it. That's why the weird amount.
> 
> @bf7 , do you have experience with spraying N? Any suggestions? I'm thinking if my spood feeding grannual is causing the leapard spots, I want to continue doing the spray.
> 
> Sadly, when I look closely at the lighter spots, there almost appears to be brown grass blades there already. I'll try to snap a pic at lunch. =/


I spray it almost every time.

Fill up a bucket with 4 gallons of water. Stir in your N granules. At the 0.25 lb rate, you should add about 0.75 lbs of N (1.6 lbs of urea) to that bucket and cover 3k sq ft with it. That's what I do.


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hit it with like .1575N/k yesterday and got a mow in too. This time I sprayed some Green Start I had leftover on it. That's why the weird amount.
> 
> @bf7 , do you have experience with spraying N? Any suggestions? I'm thinking if my spood feeding grannual is causing the leapard spots, I want to continue doing the spray.
> 
> Sadly, when I look closely at the lighter spots, there almost appears to be brown grass blades there already. I'll try to snap a pic at lunch. =/
> 
> 
> 
> I spray it almost every time.
> 
> Fill up a bucket with 4 gallons of water. Stir in your N granules. At the 0.25 lb rate, you should add about 0.75 lbs of N (1.6 lbs of urea) to that bucket and cover 3k sq ft with it. That's what I do.
Click to expand...

AMS will just dissolve with stirring?


----------



## bf7

My soil ph has historically been on the low side so don't have direct experience with AMS. But yes, it should dissolve. Try using warm water and letting it sit for a bit. Also use a strainer to catch any impurities when pouring into the sprayer.


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> My soil ph has historically been on the low side so don't have direct experience with AMS. But yes, it should dissolve. Try using warm water and letting it sit for a bit. Also use a strainer to catch any impurities when pouring into the sprayer.


I'll give it a shot on Sunday. I added a wireless valve and a hot water line to my front spigot a few months ago. Only used it once so far.


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My soil ph has historically been on the low side so don't have direct experience with AMS. But yes, it should dissolve. Try using warm water and letting it sit for a bit. Also use a strainer to catch any impurities when pouring into the sprayer.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll give it a shot on Sunday. I added a wireless valve and a hot water line to my front spigot a few months ago. Only used it once so far.
Click to expand...

Water in the N if you can.


----------



## steffen707

Put down a local favorite "winter coat" fert grannual this morning. 8-0-20 with some other micros. This was 0.4lb / 1000, so more than the targeted 0.25, but it'll probably be alright. Also mowed the reno again.

I'm pretty sure the pines are suckling up all moisture, and since my sprinklers were blown out a month ago, the ground is hard and the grass is thin.

Gotta blow my own sprinklers next year.


----------



## steffen707

Well Nov. 1st was our first snow, ever so lightly. pretty sure I got some powdery mildew going on. Hitting it with some propiconazole when it arrives from amazon. I've never had a fungal issue (that I know of before).


----------



## steffen707

I had already texted the Allett USA sales rep and said take me off the list last thursday, its too expensive.........

Then yesterday I had to take the 48" deck of my JD GX345 and put my snowblower on. Its a huge pain in the butt twice a year to do this. If I take the deck off in the driveway and slide it under the JD it leaves black skid marks from the gauge wheels rubbing sideways. So I did it in the lawn, ended up making a nice 8" rut.....

Then I see @moww's journal where he had fun mini-golf tourney with friends on his nice LOWWW cut lawn.......

Then I read @JerseyGreens's comments about how he likes all the attachements on his Allett. Which I too would like......

So this happened.



"As I stated in Jersey's thread, "It is easier to beg forgiveness than to seek permission." Don't tell my wife. :mrgreen:


----------



## JerseyGreens

steffen707 said:


> I had already texted the Allett USA sales rep and said take me off the list last thursday, its too expensive.........
> 
> Then yesterday I had to take the 48" deck of my JD GX345 and put my snowblower on. Its a huge pain in the butt twice a year to do this. If I take the deck off in the driveway and slide it under the JD it leaves black skid marks from the gauge wheels rubbing sideways. So I did it in the lawn, ended up making a nice 8" rut.....
> 
> Then I see @moww's journal where he had fun mini-golf tourney with friends on his nice LOWWW cut lawn.......
> 
> Then I read @JerseyGreens's comments about how he likes all the attachements on his Allett. Which I too would like......
> 
> So this happened.
> 
> 
> 
> "As I stated in Jersey's thread, "It is easier to beg forgiveness than to seek permission." Don't tell my wife. :mrgreen:


Hell effing yeah man!!! Welcome to the reel mow club. It's going to be a long winter waiting for the Spring to come! I'm pumped for you!


----------



## lbb091919

It. Was. Just. A. Matter. Of. Time. Haha

Congrats on the new toy!


----------



## bf7

Congrats! I hope you got some kind of discount for buying so close to the off-season. You can put down some sick stripes on your living room carpet in January!


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> Congrats! I hope you got some kind of discount for buying so close to the off-season. You can put down some sick stripes on your living room carpet in January!


They estimate March/April delivery.


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats! I hope you got some kind of discount for buying so close to the off-season. You can put down some sick stripes on your living room carpet in January!
> 
> 
> 
> They estimate March/April delivery.
Click to expand...

OUCH. And here I was hoping to see a Thanksgiving cut for the maiden voyage.


----------



## steffen707

I think I just discovered this very expensive battery powered Allett doesn't come with a battery.....So i can buy 1 battery that might be able to dethatch my whole yard for $250.00, 2 for $500, or an ego snowblower with 2 batteries for $700....
Guess i just bought a snowblower too!

https://www.lowes.com/pd/EGO-21IN-SS-SNOWBLOWER-KIT-RBR-AUGER/1003130716?cstrackid=f1583dbd-cc51-4182-86e3-c31d3d9e62d0&irclickid=TekUYUUhexyLRbGwUx0Mo3b%3AUkGx1wQhp1S1Tk0&irgwc=1&irclickid=TekUYUUhexyLRbGwUx0Mo3b%3AUkGx1wXRp1S1Tk0&irgwc=1&cm_mmc=aff-_-c-_-prd-_-mdv-_-gdy-_-all-_-0-_-10579-_-0


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats! I hope you got some kind of discount for buying so close to the off-season. You can put down some sick stripes on your living room carpet in January!
> 
> 
> 
> They estimate March/April delivery.
Click to expand...

Well, do you have the Allett??


----------



## steffen707

Happy spring everybody! We finally have a week ahead with no expected snow!

Man its been 5 months since I last posted. Let me fill you in. I totally ordered that Allett then totally canceled the order. It was a financially irresponsible purchase at the time, their motors aren't brushless and it doesn't come with a battery.

But last week I did a little retail therapy and bought this guy!



its expensive, but comes with 2, 12ah batteries, and i've got Milwaukee everything so I did it. Bought two high lift blades for it. I put it together today and mowed for the first time.

First thoughts, its WAY quieter than my rider. It will be much friendlier on the backyard shaded area which is always thin.

After picking up a ton of sticks, I mowed the lawn. I think I got a couple rocks and many sticks, but it handled everything like a champ. And it gave me a great reason to bust out this guy that I bought last year.

OMG, if you guys have mower blades to sharpen, this thing is awesome!!


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats! I hope you got some kind of discount for buying so close to the off-season. You can put down some sick stripes on your living room carpet in January!
> 
> 
> 
> They estimate March/April delivery.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, do you have the Allett??
Click to expand...

Hey, I was just thinking about making my first post this spring. You beat me to it.


----------



## steffen707

steffen707 said:


> Backstory:
> I'm in Central Wisconsin, have a mixture of prg, kbg, old school TF from a sod installation that was done 20 years ago in the lawn. I love all the stripes on youtube, but realize I don't have the commitment for short reel mowing. I've got a JD GX345 with powerflow bagger. I bought the mulch kit, but its a PITA to put on/take off. In the next year or two i'm going to replace it, hopefully with an electric zero turn. I only want to mow 2 times per week. Someday i might look into plant growth regulator, but i'm a firm believer in only tweaking so many things at once or else you have no idea what is causing any issues.
> 
> I spread milorganite and a winterizer last year with a Scotts Elite spreader I bought last year. I didn't kill anything! So i'm more confident and fired my lawn guy last summer. Pretty sure he threw down lime, cuz "YOU'VE GOT PINE NEEDLES". and he was in general not reliable. They plug aerated my yard after a heavy rainfall. Looked like somebody tilled my lawn. =( It all came back, but took some time. That's when I learned about reciprocating plug aerators instead of the "star drive" kind. I think you need a pull behind, or reciprocating plugger, or else you risk the tines becoming a gigantic tiller under the wrong hands/conditions.
> 
> Here is a Before/After of my spring project. i'll post more about that later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Future topics:
> Equipment
> 
> Products - I've read about people mixing their own cocktails with surfactants and soap to aerate the lawn, while it does look less expensive, its just more math/chemistry/involvement than i'm willing to commit at this time, so i've drank the NEXT Greene County Fertilizer coolaid, bought several of their products and am starting to make the soil better (that's the plan anyway).
> 
> 20 year spring cleanup project
> 
> Backyard Test Plots - RPR, HGT, RTF, Reinders 80/20


----------



## steffen707

Oct. 7 2021


Apr 11, 2022


Don't get me wrong, I know its not super green, but at least its better than the neighborhood. I can't wait till it looks as good as it did last year.


----------



## lbb091919

Welcome back and probably for the best that you decided to go a different direction on the reel. That's a lot of coin.

I must say, I am super jealous of that All American Sharpener. Those things are a nice piece. My reno looked exactly the same as yours coming out of winter. Give it time, she'll be singing in no time.


----------



## steffen707

lbb091919 said:


> Welcome back and probably for the best that you decided to go a different direction on the reel. That's a lot of coin.
> 
> I must say, I am super jealous of that All American Sharpener. Those things are a nice piece. My reno looked exactly the same as yours coming out of winter. Give it time, she'll be singing in no time.


You should get one for your honda mower blade. Once I figured out what direction the sparks would fly and I mounted it, I did a regrind on a new blade in 5 minutes and then cleaned up the already dented to sh*t stock blade in a about 5 minutes as well.

I paid my kids 5cents per stick they picked up. Gave them both like $20.00, I then blew the lawn with my Stihl backpack blower and I still had TONS of sticks that just beat the blade up badly. I actually think i'm going to have a fresh grind on the blade every 2 mows. It'll give me a good excuse to buy a milwaukee cordless grinder as well. What happens to a reel mower if you run over sticks? Does it just kick them out of the way, or does it dull the reel blade too? I'm almost thinking any reel owner should mow the first few times with a normal rotary mower just to protect their reels from rocks/sticks that have collected in Winter/Spring.

As for the mowing. I wouldn't say the Milwaukee m18 mower is quiet, but I could mow at 5am or 9pm and I wouldn't feel like I was pissing off the neighbors. I could wear my earbuds and listen to music/podcast without issue. My ears would hurt if I didn't have my 3m bluetooth ear phones on with my JD rider. Even with the electric drive assist, you get a bit of excercise in walking behind the mower. I think i'll probably keep this Milwaukee m18 mower for these reasons i listed.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Pictures look good man. Par for the course coming out of a fresh Reno. Start feeding it after it's first cut. Fast release N to start.


----------



## lbb091919

steffen707 said:


> lbb091919 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Welcome back and probably for the best that you decided to go a different direction on the reel. That's a lot of coin.
> 
> I must say, I am super jealous of that All American Sharpener. Those things are a nice piece. My reno looked exactly the same as yours coming out of winter. Give it time, she'll be singing in no time.
> 
> 
> 
> You should get one for your honda mower blade. Once I figured out what direction the sparks would fly and I mounted it, I did a regrind on a new blade in 5 minutes and then cleaned up the already dented to sh*t stock blade in a about 5 minutes as well.
> 
> I paid my kids 5cents per stick they picked up. Gave them both like $20.00, I then blew the lawn with my Stihl backpack blower and I still had TONS of sticks that just beat the blade up badly. I actually think i'm going to have a fresh grind on the blade every 2 mows. It'll give me a good excuse to buy a milwaukee cordless grinder as well. What happens to a reel mower if you run over sticks? Does it just kick them out of the way, or does it dull the reel blade too? I'm almost thinking any reel owner should mow the first few times with a normal rotary mower just to protect their reels from rocks/sticks that have collected in Winter/Spring.
> 
> As for the mowing. I wouldn't say the Milwaukee m18 mower is quiet, but I could mow at 5am or 9pm and I wouldn't feel like I was pissing off the neighbors. I could wear my earbuds and listen to music/podcast without issue. My ears would hurt if I didn't have my 3m bluetooth ear phones on with my JD rider. Even with the electric drive assist, you get a bit of excercise in walking behind the mower. I think i'll probably keep this Milwaukee m18 mower for these reasons i listed.
Click to expand...

I've had good luck with a vise and an angle grinder but maybe one day!

I dont know what would happen to a reel mower if it hit a stick, I guess it depends on how big. I usually walk the yard before mowing to pick up anything that might be a problem. It helps that I have a rotary brush on my JD that chucks anything out of the way before it would get to the reel.


----------



## steffen707

Ohh, that is a good feature to have. That's the 220sl?


----------



## lawn-wolverine

steffen707 said:


> Ohh, that is a good feature to have. That's the 220sl?


Hey steffen !
I am 7 months at our home in da U.P. of Michigan, so we are likely a tad colder than you guys (except we are on Lake Michigan).
BTW, my Dad was from somewhere near you…where are you in relation to Stevens Point?
Following you closely for motivation on my modest lawn (about 4500 sq. ft.).
I am doing:
50% Midnight
25% Bewitched
25% Mazama

This is in front.


----------



## steffen707

lawn-wolverine said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ohh, that is a good feature to have. That's the 220sl?
> 
> 
> 
> Hey steffen !
> I am 7 months at our home in da U.P. of Michigan, so we are likely a tad colder than you guys (except we are on Lake Michigan).
> BTW, my Dad was from somewhere near you…where are you in relation to Stevens Point?
> Following you closely for motivation on my modest lawn (about 4500 sq. ft.).
> I am doing:
> 50% Midnight
> 25% Bewitched
> 25% Mazama
> 
> This is in front.
Click to expand...

Lol, I live in Stevens Point!
Where in da U. P. are you? I've visited my friends 160acres near Carney MI for 30 years. I'm hunting turkey there May 12th.

I like your cultivar choices.


----------



## lbb091919

steffen707 said:


> Ohh, that is a good feature to have. That's the 220sl?


Yep, 220SL. When I first got the mower I didn't think I'd ever use the brush and considered swapping it out for a GTC. Glad I never did.


----------



## steffen707

lbb091919 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ohh, that is a good feature to have. That's the 220sl?
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, 220SL. When I first got the mower I didn't think I'd ever use the brush and considered swapping it out for a GTC. Glad I never did.
Click to expand...

What is a GTC? Is the brush always on the front brushing debris from the lawn into the bag/box before the grass gets cut?


----------



## lbb091919

Yep, I always have it engaged and it chucks junk out of the way before it can get to the bedknife. It's quite effective.

GTC on top, brush on bottom.


----------



## lawn-wolverine

steffen707 said:


> lawn-wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ohh, that is a good feature to have. That's the 220sl?
> 
> 
> 
> Hey steffen !
> I am 7 months at our home in da U.P. of Michigan, so we are likely a tad colder than you guys (except we are on Lake Michigan).
> BTW, my Dad was from somewhere near you…where are you in relation to Stevens Point?
> Following you closely for motivation on my modest lawn (about 4500 sq. ft.).
> I am doing:
> 50% Midnight
> 25% Bewitched
> 25% Mazama
> 
> This is in front.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, I live in Stevens Point!
> Where in da U. P. are you? I've visited my friends 160acres near Carney MI for 30 years. I'm hunting turkey there May 12th.
> 
> I like your cultivar choices.
Click to expand...

Wow! Hmmm, I thought I saw the town you listed as something else. Well, my Dad went to an ooooold high school right there in Stevens Point. I think they closed it down a few years ago. Then he went to and graduated from UWSP; was on the boxing team and Captain there back in the 1930's. Worked as a kid at that big old grocery (gone now) in town.
We are in Escanaba for "the good months"…June-December, where I practice on KBG. 
By the way, my backyard has 50% 'Midnight', 25% 'Bewitched' and 25% 'Skye' (you don't seem to see that a lot on here; it did incredibly well in NTEP trials in the midwest, but particularly exceptional at MSU (yes, quite a ways away from the U.P. weather). I will attempt to see how 'Skye' does in that 1/3 blend. 
The other half of my year is on the east coast (northern Virginia) where I have tended for many years a staggeringly-good looking 'Meyer' zoysia. I love the uniformity, thickness and overall toughness. Alas, it is tan for most of time I am there now ! I think my neighbors picnic on it in my absence🤣
Maybe I will get out to SP this summer and take in your "green" in person !


----------



## steffen707

lawn-wolverine said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lawn-wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey steffen !
> I am 7 months at our home in da U.P. of Michigan, so we are likely a tad colder than you guys (except we are on Lake Michigan).
> BTW, my Dad was from somewhere near you…where are you in relation to Stevens Point?
> Following you closely for motivation on my modest lawn (about 4500 sq. ft.).
> I am doing:
> 50% Midnight
> 25% Bewitched
> 25% Mazama
> 
> This is in front.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, I live in Stevens Point!
> Where in da U. P. are you? I've visited my friends 160acres near Carney MI for 30 years. I'm hunting turkey there May 12th.
> 
> I like your cultivar choices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow! Hmmm, I thought I saw the town you listed as something else. Well, my Dad went to an ooooold high school right there in Stevens Point. I think they closed it down a few years ago. Then he went to and graduated from UWSP; was on the boxing team and Captain there back in the 1930's. Worked as a kid at that big old grocery (gone now) in town.
> We are in Escanaba for "the good months"…June-December, where I practice on KBG.
> By the way, my backyard has 50% 'Midnight', 25% 'Bewitched' and 25% 'Skye' (you don't seem to see that a lot on here; it did incredibly well in NTEP trials in the midwest, but particularly exceptional at MSU (yes, quite a ways away from the U.P. weather). I will attempt to see how 'Skye' does in that 1/3 blend.
> The other half of my year is on the east coast (northern Virginia) where I have tended for many years a staggeringly-good looking 'Meyer' zoysia. I love the uniformity, thickness and overall toughness. Alas, it is tan for most of time I am there now ! I think my neighbors picnic on it in my absence🤣
> Maybe I will get out to SP this summer and take in your "green" in person !
Click to expand...

Fun stuff! My mom, dad, wife went to UWSP. I think the old HS was PJ Jacobs, and that is now a Junior High School.

I've fished on the Little Bay De'nac (sure i spelled that wrong). We loved going to Herferd and Hopps in Escanaba. Not sure if its still there.


----------



## steffen707

Wisconsin......High of 34deg on 4/26....................................High of 90 deg predicted on 5/12.

Anywho, the local university UWSP has a great site, http://schmeec1.uwsp.edu/vdv/vdv_historical.php that gives all sorts of readings. The 5cm soil temp just recently peaked over 50degF. So I threw down some crabgrass preventor with Urea on Saturday. I've been so swamped with life I didn't have time to do any spraying, so I just spread some big box type stuff. We'll see if the TOO MUCH N causes any issues. Oh well. We haven't even had 3 consecutive days of 50 deg soil temp yet. Also I don't know if that means 5cm soil temp or 25cm soil temp. I would assume the latter which is still a ways off of that for its average soil temp.



I got my sprinklers going, which is often a chore, but really easy this year. My well check valve normally is sticky.

Anybody have a good recommendation for a new check valve with bleed screws on both sides of the valve/plunger body? Its time I break down and spend big bucks on that part cuz the Menards $40 units only last about 1.5 years.


----------



## lawn-wolverine

steffen707 said:


> lawn-wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, I live in Stevens Point!
> Where in da U. P. are you? I've visited my friends 160acres near Carney MI for 30 years. I'm hunting turkey there May 12th.
> 
> I like your cultivar choices.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow! Hmmm, I thought I saw the town you listed as something else. Well, my Dad went to an ooooold high school right there in Stevens Point. I think they closed it down a few years ago. Then he went to and graduated from UWSP; was on the boxing team and Captain there back in the 1930's. Worked as a kid at that big old grocery (gone now) in town.
> We are in Escanaba for "the good months"…June-December, where I practice on KBG.
> By the way, my backyard has 50% 'Midnight', 25% 'Bewitched' and 25% 'Skye' (you don't seem to see that a lot on here; it did incredibly well in NTEP trials in the midwest, but particularly exceptional at MSU (yes, quite a ways away from the U.P. weather). I will attempt to see how 'Skye' does in that 1/3 blend.
> The other half of my year is on the east coast (northern Virginia) where I have tended for many years a staggeringly-good looking 'Meyer' zoysia. I love the uniformity, thickness and overall toughness. Alas, it is tan for most of time I am there now ! I think my neighbors picnic on it in my absence🤣
> Maybe I will get out to SP this summer and take in your "green" in person !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fun stuff! My mom, dad, wife went to UWSP. I think the old HS was PJ Jacobs, and that is now a Junior High School.
> 
> I've fished on the Little Bay De'nac (sure i spelled that wrong). We loved going to Herferd and Hopps in Escanaba. Not sure if its still there.
Click to expand...

🤗👍 How ''bout THAT!! Yep, Little Bay de Noc. We see it out our window every day, and are right there at Ludington Park. Hereford & Hops is five blocks from our house, still open, and if you get back, WE WILL treat you folks to a meal there! I think that was Dad's old high school you referenced. He was kind of a proud UWSP grad, about 1938. 
I am frustrated right now, not being there and I have never found anyone I really trust to fill in for me when gone, darn it. The "top" lawn service in town royally screwed up our years and wiped out my gardener-wife's carefully tended Irish moss (they could not discern the difference between moss and broadleaf weeds??😡)I told them that I could not insure their safety (from my wife) if they ever came back, so they never did!!
Being a north/south homeowners is horrible on lawn and garden caretaking. Without reliable help, it is near impossible to be successful!
All the best !


----------



## steffen707

I got back from an unsuccessful turkey hunt and the grass is thriving! I also just realized for the first time in 6 years of owning my home, that there are patchy spots in the front yard, I believe of rye grass and KBG. You may be able to see in this photo the lighter colored areas I think are the rye grass. this has soldified my determination to renovate the whole lawn sometime.


The rear yard you can see where the reno ended by the orange line. I think i'm going to just do half of my backyard as a reno this year and also overseed some on the bare dirt areas of the reno. This blue area has always been difficult, hoping the KBG and better water shut off in the fall timing will help this.


----------



## steffen707

So now for the questions for you kbg reno experts.
Will the KBG fill in these bare areas?



I have moss competing next to this fence line, any tips on killing the moss and not the kbg?


----------



## steffen707

Lastly, in my reno area I have these little guys, that i think are poa annua. I don't have anything like this in the other parts of my established lawn. If this is poa annua, should I pull up plugs with the pro-plugger and let the kbg fill back in, spray it with glyphosate, just keep moving it, ect ect?


----------



## lawn-wolverine

The answer is "Yes, 'Poa Annua' otherwise known as annual bluegrass. I have it in my Virginia lawn, around my zoysia (but that is neither here nor there). The point is that I mow and BAG it off twice a week, except isolated clumps of it where I choose to pull it and bag it tightly.
Here is the thing- a lawn service I have no control over does what I call "trenching" on each side of the sidewalk. That disturbs the pre-emergent from the August drop. I feel as though pre-emergent in mid-August is your best bet. Poa Annua germinates in very late August-early September (almost exactly when mid-WIsconsin to northern Michigan seeds).
Well…a choice needs to be made, huh!

BTW, we have a nearby golf course. They have a road leading up to the clubhouse and the name of that road? Yep, 'Poa Annua Lane.' Most of the golfers have NO idea &#129335;‍♂ of the "joke."


----------



## lbb091919

That first picture you should probably plug. It will go faster. The second pic will fill in on its own. I had some areas that looked similar and have since filled in nicely.


----------



## lawn-wolverine

I definitely think the KBG theory is more myth than reality.
Now Bermuda grass ? Okay, you can WATCH that stuff spread with a stop watch.

But not sure I will live long enough to see bluegrass fill in bare spots. 
Fill in t h i n areas? Yea, okay.


----------



## bf7

Yeah, I think you'll need to plug or seed in the first pic.

Is the poa a too much to hand pull? Looks like a few isolated plants. Gly / plug seems like overkill.


----------



## steffen707

lbb091919 said:


> That first picture you should probably plug. It will go faster. The second pic will fill in on its own. I had some areas that looked similar and have since filled in nicely.


so with the plugger, do you fill in every single spot, or do you do it like a grid with open spacing?

Also what do you do with the holes left by the plugger, just fill them with soil and the grass fills in?

I guess i should do some searching huh? lol


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> Yeah, I think you'll need to plug or seed in the first pic.
> 
> Is the poa a too much to hand pull? Looks like a few isolated plants. Gly / plug seems like overkill.


I could totally hand pull them, I thought I remembered some people freaking out about poa A and Triv and want to nuke each spot to make sure it never comes back......lol, But since its annual, it only comes back from seeds, right?


----------



## lbb091919

steffen707 said:


> so with the plugger, do you fill in every single spot, or do you do it like a grid with open spacing?
> 
> Also what do you do with the holes left by the plugger, just fill them with soil and the grass fills in?
> 
> I guess i should do some searching huh? lol


You do like a grid pattern with space in between. You fill the holes with the other plug. You're just swapping dirt. Or you could fill with fresh dirt. Up to you.


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I think you'll need to plug or seed in the first pic.
> 
> Is the poa a too much to hand pull? Looks like a few isolated plants. Gly / plug seems like overkill.
> 
> 
> 
> I could totally hand pull them, I thought I remembered some people freaking out about poa A and Triv and want to nuke each spot to make sure it never comes back......lol, But since its annual, it only comes back from seeds, right?
Click to expand...

A lot of people nuke triv spots. Poa a normally isn't as hard to deal with. Hand pull carefully without letting the seeds scatter. Stay on top of pre-em in the fall. If it gets hot enough, it'll die anyway. Stop the seeds from spreading and it won't come back next year.


----------



## steffen707

Much thanks @lbb091919 and @bf7!

I bought a pro plugger a year ago and never used it, time to get my monies worth.


----------



## steffen707

I hand picked a bunch of poa A this morning then set out to do the plugging. Man that pro-plugger is sweet!
I did about 150 plugs and it took me hours and hours, but just looking at the area I did it already looks better, HA!
The rest of my reno looks like the ants started 150 small ant hills, but when it grows back .........DANG, this is like a lawn that keeps on giving! I pulled 4" dirt plugs and added peat moss and 2" KBG plugs. Hopefully that wasn't a dumb move. It was a small scoop of soil for each of the kbg 2" holes, then I spread some peat moss around the plugs.

















So I did a ton of spots, but i'm thinking on this other large area in the back i might wait for fall to do another round of plugging if the other plugs were successful. If they weren't successful, then i'll just seed that whole area again. Hoping the first happens.


----------



## steffen707

speaking of plugging, this is a part of my non-reno that I shoveled snow on. even though I used the 8300 level premium Safe Step Magnesium Chloride Salt that's great for pets and lawns, it still killed parts of the grass as you can see. In the past, I just left this and eventually grass came back up through the dead stuff in 3-8 weeks (guessing).

This is where i'm clueless. Are the grass plants totally dead, and new *** actually spreads into these spots and new plants are grown, OR, is just the leaves of the grass plant damaged, and the plants will sprout new leaves?

I feel like either way, raking away the dead stuff would make this grow faster, right? Should I plug this area too?


Bonus fun, my mailbox was laying in my driveway one morning (assumed somebody hit it with a baseball bat), so I cut the plastic squarely and mounted it onto 2 4x4's Its been that way for years, but its probably time I replace it.


----------



## steffen707

I applied .8oz/k cytogro
.5oz/k Bifen IT
3oz/k hydretain tonight,
watered it in for about 25 minutes, its also supposed to rain for hours this coming morning.

I thought cytogro was a non-foliar application, but somebody said otherwise on another thread. So i looked at the directions, and in one section it says you can do either or and add iron to make it more effective, so I emailed the company to find out.

i'm really eager to show my results of my Ego select cut xp /Milwaukee m18/Toro super recycler showdown. Wont have everything done until next weekend.


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> speaking of plugging, this is a part of my non-reno that I shoveled snow on. even though I used the 8300 level premium Safe Step Magnesium Chloride Salt that's great for pets and lawns, it still killed parts of the grass as you can see. In the past, I just left this and eventually grass came back up through the dead stuff in 3-8 weeks (guessing).
> 
> This is where i'm clueless. Are the grass plants totally dead, and new KBG actually spreads into these spots and new plants are grown, OR, is just the leaves of the grass plant damaged, and the plants will sprout new leaves?
> 
> I feel like either way, raking away the dead stuff would make this grow faster, right? Should I plug this area too?
> 
> 
> Bonus fun, my mailbox was laying in my driveway one morning (assumed somebody hit it with a baseball bat), so I cut the plastic squarely and mounted it onto 2 4x4's Its been that way for years, but its probably time I replace it.


I would rake away the dead stuff and plug. But man, I'd be so sick of plugging if I were you. 150 is a lot.


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> speaking of plugging, this is a part of my non-reno that I shoveled snow on. even though I used the 8300 level premium Safe Step Magnesium Chloride Salt that's great for pets and lawns, it still killed parts of the grass as you can see. In the past, I just left this and eventually grass came back up through the dead stuff in 3-8 weeks (guessing).
> 
> This is where i'm clueless. Are the grass plants totally dead, and new KBG actually spreads into these spots and new plants are grown, OR, is just the leaves of the grass plant damaged, and the plants will sprout new leaves?
> 
> I feel like either way, raking away the dead stuff would make this grow faster, right? Should I plug this area too?
> 
> 
> Bonus fun, my mailbox was laying in my driveway one morning (assumed somebody hit it with a baseball bat), so I cut the plastic squarely and mounted it onto 2 4x4's Its been that way for years, but its probably time I replace it.
> 
> 
> 
> I would rake away the dead stuff and plug. But man, I'd be so sick of plugging if I were you. 150 is a lot.
Click to expand...

Well hopefully the new reno can handle all the plugs i'm pulling from it. I'm thinking next year I have to get the family to shovel to the road and then maybe I wont have so much die off from the salt, (I assume).


----------



## steffen707

@bf7 do you need to put the plugs on any special watering schedule? Or just water them good after initial transplant, and then water lawn like normal?


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> @bf7 do you need to put the plugs on any special watering schedule? Or just water them good after initial transplant, and then water lawn like normal?


I don't treat them any differently than the rest of the yard. Maybe just give them a good soaking right after transplanting like you mentioned.


----------



## steffen707

Nice @bf7 , My plugs seem to be surviving the transplant just fine. I figure another 300-400 plugs and the backyard part of reno will be done, LMAO.

I'm thinking of buying a robo mower. This will give me like 60-100 more hours to dedicate to other parts of the yard, life, family, excercise.......I'm also going to sell my JD GX345 with powerflow bagger, 40" snowblower, power steering, power deck/blower lift, metal cab with soft doors, glass windshield, engine coolant/cab heater and joystick snowblower chute rotator/raiser setup. I'm going to start it at $6,500 and see where it goes from there.

I've been cutting my renovation with my Fiskars at 1", but the rest of the yard is at 2.5-3"

This drew me towards the Husqvarna robo mower, because you can program it to mow different sections at different heights in the cutting schedule. I mean its only .8-2" of height adjustment, so I would still have to mow the other part .5-1" shorter, but its doable. Cons: This mower is $2,000 and you have to bury a perimeter wire and the blade isn't offset to an edge, so it doesn't get the boarder very well.

Several non-perimeter wire robo mowers, Segway, Toro, a few kickstarter type ones, let you adjust the height from settings, but Its a manual process, AND i don't think you can tell it 2 separate zones, so either its 1" for everything, or maybe up to like 2.2-2.5" for everything.

Either way I have to compromise. Either the reno is mowed tall and everything a little shorter OR.......I have to force the whole lawn to grow at 1"......I'd have more dirt than grass in the backyard, but i do plan to renovate the whole yard over the next 2-3 years anyway.

I was thinking of mowing with the Fiskars and my Ego for the rest of the year and then pick the best robo option in 2023.

I suppose another option is to buy a reel mower and go from less work to more work, lol.


----------



## Wile

Robot mower is really intriguing. I'll keep checking back to see if you get one and how it's going. If they can really mow at an 1" I think I would consider it for the backyard.


----------



## bf7

Isn't mowing half the fun of lawn care? Haha


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> Isn't mowing half the fun of lawn care? Haha


If I'm making stripes yes, but that would give me a ton of free hours to dethatch, renovate, plug, ect ect.


----------



## steffen707

Wile said:


> Robot mower is really intriguing. I'll keep checking back to see if you get one and how it's going. If they can really mow at an 1" I think I would consider it for the backyard.


Yeah I could let it Mow the backyard and then get a greensmower to throw down the stripes in the front.


----------



## livt0ride

I'm sure there will be a robot that can mow stripes eventually. Shouldn't be hard to do now that they have the initial tech setup.


----------



## steffen707

livt0ride said:


> I'm sure there will be a robot that can mow stripes eventually. Shouldn't be hard to do now that they have the initial tech setup.


its just a matter of time before the robots get bigger, then you can just download patterns for it to cut into the lawn. That would kinda take away from the fun of making stripes. But i'm totally fine with a robot mowing my lawn to maintain a height.


----------



## Wile

bf7 said:


> Isn't mowing half the fun of lawn care? Haha


Front's for show (me time) and back's for dough (more family time) 😉


----------



## JerseyGreens

A robotic greensmower will be here before we know but it will probably cost 20k especially if Allett invents it. &#128514;


----------



## steffen707

JerseyGreens said:


> A robotic greensmower will be here before we know but it will probably cost 20k especially if Allett invents it. 😂


 :lol: :lol: :lol: Its funny cuz its true!


----------



## steffen707

I moved all the JD stuff out of my shed so I can sell the JD. I then built a nice hanging rack for a bunch of tools, cleaned all the leaves out.

It's looking real good in here.


----------



## steffen707

I busted my butt again today doing about 150 more plugs in the front lawn. Looks really nice, and unless you're on the lawn can't see the dirt filled holes.

Speaking of which, I pulled apart as much of the soil from the bad plugs and mixed it about 50/50 with a soggy wet bag of peatmoss I had laying around. Maybe it'll help with the holes filling in with grass.

I'm pretty impressed with the pro plugger. Should I be doing 2" or 4" plugs? I did 4" in the front yard. Roots on most plugs went down all 4" with the deepest 0.5-1" was just pure sand. i'm sure some of you will have like 8" of roots, not there yet.


----------



## jskierko

Definitely 4" plugs. The more established roots you give it the more likely its going to be able withstand the stress of being transplanted and the upcoming stress of summer.


----------



## steffen707

jskierko said:


> Definitely 4" plugs. The more established roots you give it the more likely its going to be able withstand the stress of being transplanted and the upcoming stress of summer.


Makes sense. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## steffen707

We have grass babies!

This is my office. My business partner paid the lawn guy to plant God knows what. Must have been rye cuz it came in super fast.  Hopefully it'll handle the summer heat,its irrigated, so should be fine.

I didn't need another project so I just let them handle it.


----------



## steffen707

If you want a quick way to map out the SF of your lawn, go to https://design.irrigreen.com/. I made 3 separate boxes and noted the sf on a notepad, then take a snippet, windows+shift+s and save it, edit it and put in the sf for each section.
Its amazing how being off by a little bit on the map can make several hundred square feet of difference. I've been saying my lawn is 10k, but really its more like 8.5k. That probably explains why when I mix to 10gallons in my sprayer, I keep having leftover....


----------



## steffen707

New addition to the tool collection. 

There's a hidden screw beneath the guard on the m18 you need to take off too.

Scissors are loud, but do a great job edging and not destroying my fence.


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> New addition to the tool collection.
> 
> There's a hidden screw beneath the guard on the m18 you need to take off too.
> 
> Scissors are loud, but do a great job edging and not destroying my fence.


Nice! Definitely use ear protection.

One minor pain is that it needs greased regularly. I keep forgetting :shock:


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> New addition to the tool collection.
> 
> There's a hidden screw beneath the guard on the m18 you need to take off too.
> 
> Scissors are loud, but do a great job edging and not destroying my fence.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice! Definitely use ear protection.
> 
> One minor pain is that it needs greased regularly. I keep forgetting :shock:
Click to expand...

Yep, I always wear ear pro and listen to YouTube as I work.

I need to find a video to see where to add grease. Think I might add my own zerk fittings.


----------



## steffen707

Suck it neighbor, paying your yard people to do a 1/2 rule cut weekly. :lol:


----------



## steffen707

Can Nybody identify this? It's in my neighbors yard, it's fugly, but if it's tall fescue I'll leave it, if not, I'm going to do us a favor.


----------



## Ben4Birdies

Need closer pictures of individual plants if anyone is gonna have a chance with those.

Looks like the type of grass that only glyphosate will handle. Better hope isn't not quackgrass or bromegrass that spreads by rhizomes. I've got both of those and need to reno some big sections.


----------



## steffen707

Sounds good, I'll pick some and take a few photos tomorrow


----------



## steffen707

Ben4Birdies said:


> Need closer pictures of individual plants if anyone is gonna have a chance with those.
> 
> Looks like the type of grass that only glyphosate will handle. Better hope isn't not quackgrass or bromegrass that spreads by rhizomes. I've got both of those and need to reno some big sections.


Is this a clasping auricle?


----------



## Ben4Birdies

The photos you posted do not appear to have a clasping auricle.

This is an image online I found of the clasping auricle of quackgrass.


So it doesn't appear to be quackgrass, but I'm no expert in knowing what it is. I had something similar to that, and went to a local farmer to get an opinion. My culprit was smooth bromegrass. Unfortunately many of these pasture type grasses seem very similar.

Could be an old tall fescue as well?

Any of the options I've mentioned require roundup. I guess your options depend on if it is a spreading type or not.

Have you noticed it spreading at all? Have you been able to pull up much of the roots and see if it has rhizomes?


----------



## steffen707

Ben4Birdies said:


> The photos you posted do not appear to have a clasping auricle.
> 
> This is an image online I found of the clasping auricle of quackgrass.
> 
> 
> So it doesn't appear to be quackgrass, but I'm no expert in knowing what it is. I had something similar to that, and went to a local farmer to get an opinion. My culprit was smooth bromegrass. Unfortunately many of these pasture type grasses seem very similar.
> 
> Could be an old tall fescue as well?
> 
> Any of the options I've mentioned require roundup. I guess your options depend on if it is a spreading type or not.
> 
> Have you noticed it spreading at all? Have you been able to pull up much of the roots and see if it has rhizomes?


I'm thinking it isn't a spreading grass as i've noticed it in years past (before I really cared or knew anything about lawn care) and I don't think its gotten any bigger. Tomorrow I should have time to take a look at its roots.

I think I have 4 options.

1 Glyph the whole spot.

2 Spot glyph each plant with a foamer like i've seen on GCU Turf, https://www.amazon.com/Green-Shoots-Precision-Killer-Tough/dp/B07GBH4JBZ

3 Use a plugger to pull up the plants then just fill and reseed the spot.

4 Leave it and monitor for spreading.


----------



## steffen707

Well I almost broke the 1/3 rule this morning by spraying 30% of my products on the lawn. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Need to update my Google sheet for the bifen IT also sprayed at 0.5oz/k.

Where do I get a jumbo bag of AMS, local co-op I suppose? A bag of Amazon AMS each spray may add up.


----------



## steffen707

Oh and this ryobi sprayer is gunna be my new dedicated ant, weed, water sprayer.
I'm getting one for each chemical I spray in 1 Gallon form except the GLY backpack will stay for future renos. Yes my corner of garage is a mess.

I used it to spray water onto the driveway so the iron didn't stain the edges, easier than pulling the hose out across the sprayed lawn.


----------



## steffen707

After a bunch of back and forth I finally put my crock down and told the wife, "Please don't be mad, but i'm renovating like 500sf in the backyard starting 4th of July!

I should have done that with my reno last year, as Zone 2 sprays the reno AND this 500sf spot, but it was my first reno and I wasn't prepared.

So i'm very excited to be starting it almost a month earlier than last year. And this time i'm going to pre-germinate my grass seed and mix with milorganite to spread that out onto the reno. Should potentially save me 5 days of hoping storms don't wash it all way like it did last year.

I'm not doing the tackifier this year (even though it worked well last year), its just not necessary and cost like $50 I think.

When I do the 500sf, i'm also going to re-seed/overseed some of the more bare spots in the backyard of last years reno.

Having 1 successful reno under my belt that was about 3,000sf, this 500sf one will be cake and i'm excited to post results of the pre-germination process.


----------



## steffen707

Here is my 2022 schedule. This google sheet has a bunch of info to the right of this, but this is the main stuff. I'm keeping track of mowings after using T-Nex, to just see if my GDD that i'm using on https://lawntrack.app/ is close to ideal or not.
I'm currently at 303gdd on my first application. I don't think its going to work out to spray T-nex with my other cocktail stuff at nice 4 week intervals.....

So keep in mine that my schedules below are constantly being tweaked.


----------



## bf7

I'm pumped to see results of the pre-germ.


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> I'm pumped to see results of the pre-germ.


Me too! It'll be about a month yet.

Just sprayed the glyphosate last night. 
These first two are just showing what hacking down my 2.5-3" old grass to 1.5" looks like. the new cultivars that i've kept at 1.5" look much better. (obviously)

Foreground is the old lawn at the 2.5-3", midground is the reno i just hacked, and the far grass is last years reno that i keep at 1.5" (that's the lowest my Ego will go)




This is jut showing how much darker my lawn is than the neighbors. The guy on the corner is really struggling. He mows from about 3" to 1" every week and his grass got scorched by the road. I'm sure mine looks nicer because I cut it more frequently, water it more adequately but I also really wonder how much of the lawn looking good and staying healthy through this heat wave is all the rgs, humic12, air8, molasses, seakelp cocktail i've been spraying monthly.

I started flagging out where our eventual patio will go. I'm killing all the grass here and planting the new cultivars in case it takes us 3-5 years to make that patio, but a sizable chunk of this reno will become patio someday.



And the reno area is looking really dark with the Lazer blue dye. I was rushing a bit when I sprayed the bushes, and ended up hosing the siding pretty good.......hopefully the dye comes off without too much effort.


----------



## steffen707

Well now I've done it. Decided to build a second deck to the right of the first one, stepped down to Mike a bi-level kinda thing. I only want to get the grading, weed barrier and rocks done this year, but I just don't have a ton of time these days.

So I gotta plan accordingly to rent a dingo, get all that work done, then regrade the reno area. I should have started all that in May..... Ugh.


----------



## steffen707

And literally as I was typing that post somebody backed into my truck from across a parking lot, boo. That's quite some distance to not see a white truck behind you. Too much farting around to get it fixed, so I just told him to be more careful. He was sorry, back to my lawn planning.


----------



## steffen707

Real glad I bought this Milwaukee Lazer level. It's super convenient to set the string lines and figure out where I need to add soil.

Got the top of deck and first step layed out with nice 1/8" per foot drop, 2" over 16'. Then I'm going to add soil for the 2nd step to be onto grass. Im hoping the kbg can handle the kids and dog stepping directly onto it instead of some bricks, pavers or the like. 










I brought in three yards of pulverized soil, one at a time. Trailer weighs 1020 lbs. 1 yard of this soil was 3000lbs,so the JD did pretty well moving the 4000 lbs around the yard. 
I was going to rent a dingo to excavate some soil for the deck joists, landscape fabric and rock to go over top, but since I already have 90% of the soil smoothed out by hand, I'm just going to dig the other soil by hand too, shouldn't be too bad. I hand dug out a 5.5"x20'x24' area before for my kids playset area/wood chips under the playground thing.


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> And literally as I was typing that post somebody backed into my truck from across a parking lot, boo. That's quite some distance to not see a white truck behind you. Too much farting around to get it fixed, so I just told him to be more careful. He was sorry, back to my lawn planning.


Time to upgrade to a steel bumper?

What year is your jeep? I just had new MTs mounted the other day. I'm a sucker for the white letters out


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And literally as I was typing that post somebody backed into my truck from across a parking lot, boo. That's quite some distance to not see a white truck behind you. Too much farting around to get it fixed, so I just told him to be more careful. He was sorry, back to my lawn planning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to upgrade to a steel bumper?
> 
> What year is your jeep? I just had new MTs mounted the other day. I'm a sucker for the white letters out
Click to expand...

Wow, look at that. Both white Jeeps with black hardtop and black wheels. Is that a JK? Mine is a 2020 Gladiator. Here is a picture of it last year helping me spread top soil.


----------



## lawn-wolverine

QUESTION: Is it fair to say that for using ONE KBG variety for a moderately-shady area (only about 3.5 hours of direct sun a day) around a maple tree, as I love the look of KBG, 'Mazama' is the best go-to variety ? 
Yep, I am still here in the central U.P. Hope you are well, Steffan, in my Dad's Stevens Point !


----------



## situman

[/quote]

This is jut showing how much darker my lawn is than the neighbors. The guy on the corner is really struggling. He mows from about 3" to 1" every week and his grass got scorched by the road. I'm sure mine looks nicer because I cut it more frequently, water it more adequately but I also really wonder how much of the lawn looking good and staying healthy through this heat wave is all the rgs, humic12, air8, molasses, seakelp cocktail i've been spraying monthly.

[/quote]

You and all your neighbors are all under the same weather conditions. Watering is the most important, but your cocktail seems to bring you over the finish line. I went granular only this yr and stopped using any of the Next products and my backyard is struggling more than prior yrs with the heat and drought and this is only July!


----------



## steffen707

This is jut showing how much darker my lawn is than the neighbors. The guy on the corner is really struggling. He mows from about 3" to 1" every week and his grass got scorched by the road. I'm sure mine looks nicer because I cut it more frequently, water it more adequately but I also really wonder how much of the lawn looking good and staying healthy through this heat wave is all the rgs, humic12, air8, molasses, seakelp cocktail i've been spraying monthly.

[/quote]

You and all your neighbors are all under the same weather conditions. Watering is the most important, but your cocktail seems to bring you over the finish line. I went granular only this yr and stopped using any of the Next products and my backyard is struggling more than prior yrs with the heat and drought and this is only July!
[/quote]
Hmmm, so perhaps all that expense and effort I'm putting in is paying off......YEAH! :lol:


----------



## steffen707

lawn-wolverine said:


> QUESTION: Is it fair to say that for using ONE KBG variety for a moderately-shady area (only about 3.5 hours of direct sun a day) around a maple tree, as I love the look of KBG, 'Mazama' is the best go-to variety ?
> Yep, I am still here in the central U.P. Hope you are well, Steffan, in my Dad's Stevens Point !


Well it depends on what you're looking for. you can spend weeks combing through these reports and some people would say you're a fool because ANY elite cultivar will perform better than your average lawn, BUT........I like to maximize my success when I go through this much effort to do a renovation. here are the NTEP trials (National Turfgrass Evaluation Program)

There is a balance with all these elite cultivars. None of them has the best of everything. BARVETTE HGT® is the best overall, except for genetic color and drought tolerance. Its a lighter shade of green and doesn't mix well with others. I personally want a deep blue/green lawn and bluebank/mazama/bewitched has that going on.

Mazama actually had a relatively mediocre Overall Quality in North Central USA in its 2012-2016 trials. It had great fall/december color, it had a high genetic color (dark green). It has poor traffic tollerance of 4.0 out of 6.2, but it had the best shade ability at 6.3 of 6.3. I think it won its trial in shade ability.

So for a moderately shady spot with just 1 KBG cultivar, if that spot has low traffic tolerance, its probably the way to go.
My Bluebank/Mazama/Bewitched combination has performed great in my more shaded areas that were struggling in previous years. Is that the Bluebank, Mazama or Bewitched....who knows, but i would assume its the mazama.


----------



## lawn-wolverine

steffen707 said:


> lawn-wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> QUESTION: Is it fair to say that for using ONE KBG variety for a moderately-shady area (only about 3.5 hours of direct sun a day) around a maple tree, as I love the look of KBG, 'Mazama' is the best go-to variety ?
> Yep, I am still here in the central U.P. Hope you are well, Steffan, in my Dad's Stevens Point !
> 
> 
> 
> Well it depends on what you're looking for. you can spend weeks combing through these reports and some people would say you're a fool because ANY elite cultivar will perform better than your average lawn, BUT........I like to maximize my success when I go through this much effort to do a renovation. here are the NTEP trials (National Turfgrass Evaluation Program)
> 
> There is a balance with all these elite cultivars. None of them has the best of everything. BARVETTE HGT® is the best overall, except for genetic color and drought tolerance. Its a lighter shade of green and doesn't mix well with others. I personally want a deep blue/green lawn and bluebank/mazama/bewitched has that going on.
> 
> Mazama actually had a relatively mediocre Overall Quality in North Central USA in its 2012-2016 trials. It had great fall/december color, it had a high genetic color (dark green). It has poor traffic tollerance of 4.0 out of 6.2, but it had the best shade ability at 6.3 of 6.3. I think it won its trial in shade ability.
> 
> So for a moderately shady spot with just 1 KBG cultivar, if that spot has low traffic tolerance, its probably the way to go.
> My Bluebank/Mazama/Bewitched combination has performed great in my more shaded areas that were struggling in previous years. Is that the Bluebank, Mazama or Bewitched....who knows, but i would assume its the mazama.
Click to expand...

Well THANKS Steffan ! Yea, very low foot traffic, but I wonder exactly what constitutes "poor traffic tolerance"? Specifically, I have some variety of fine-bladed grass that is a "spring green"…SOME neighbors like it, but I hate the looks of WHATEVER it is, because it lays over (very non-erect, which makes it difficult to mow effectively and it just looks stupid laying over).
I have a mix in a front area that is Mazama, Bewitched, and Midnight. I like it but I cannot discern what is what. It's "dark" though!🤗


----------



## steffen707

lawn-wolverine said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lawn-wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> QUESTION: Is it fair to say that for using ONE KBG variety for a moderately-shady area (only about 3.5 hours of direct sun a day) around a maple tree, as I love the look of KBG, 'Mazama' is the best go-to variety ?
> Yep, I am still here in the central U.P. Hope you are well, Steffan, in my Dad's Stevens Point !
> 
> 
> 
> Well it depends on what you're looking for. you can spend weeks combing through these reports and some people would say you're a fool because ANY elite cultivar will perform better than your average lawn, BUT........I like to maximize my success when I go through this much effort to do a renovation. here are the NTEP trials (National Turfgrass Evaluation Program)
> 
> There is a balance with all these elite cultivars. None of them has the best of everything. BARVETTE HGT® is the best overall, except for genetic color and drought tolerance. Its a lighter shade of green and doesn't mix well with others. I personally want a deep blue/green lawn and bluebank/mazama/bewitched has that going on.
> 
> Mazama actually had a relatively mediocre Overall Quality in North Central USA in its 2012-2016 trials. It had great fall/december color, it had a high genetic color (dark green). It has poor traffic tollerance of 4.0 out of 6.2, but it had the best shade ability at 6.3 of 6.3. I think it won its trial in shade ability.
> 
> So for a moderately shady spot with just 1 KBG cultivar, if that spot has low traffic tolerance, its probably the way to go.
> My Bluebank/Mazama/Bewitched combination has performed great in my more shaded areas that were struggling in previous years. Is that the Bluebank, Mazama or Bewitched....who knows, but i would assume its the mazama.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well THANKS Steffan ! Yea, very low foot traffic, but I wonder exactly what constitutes "poor traffic tolerance"? Specifically, I have some variety of fine-bladed grass that is a "spring green"…SOME neighbors like it, but I hate the looks of WHATEVER it is, because it lays over (very non-erect, which makes it difficult to mow effectively and it just looks stupid laying over).
> I have a mix in a front area that is Mazama, Bewitched, and Midnight. I like it but I cannot discern what is what. It's "dark" though!🤗
Click to expand...

I think they actually put a lot of traffic on it when they test it. Like can it withstand regular football games, baseball games, golf cart traffic. So for most people its probably fine, but I wouldn't open up a neighborhood wiffleball field with it. :lol:


----------



## lawn-wolverine

steffen707 said:


> lawn-wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well it depends on what you're looking for. you can spend weeks combing through these reports and some people would say you're a fool because ANY elite cultivar will perform better than your average lawn, BUT........I like to maximize my success when I go through this much effort to do a renovation. here are the NTEP trials (National Turfgrass Evaluation Program)
> 
> There is a balance with all these elite cultivars. None of them has the best of everything. BARVETTE HGT® is the best overall, except for genetic color and drought tolerance. Its a lighter shade of green and doesn't mix well with others. I personally want a deep blue/green lawn and bluebank/mazama/bewitched has that going on.
> 
> Mazama actually had a relatively mediocre Overall Quality in North Central USA in its 2012-2016 trials. It had great fall/december color, it had a high genetic color (dark green). It has poor traffic tollerance of 4.0 out of 6.2, but it had the best shade ability at 6.3 of 6.3. I think it won its trial in shade ability.
> 
> So for a moderately shady spot with just 1 KBG cultivar, if that spot has low traffic tolerance, its probably the way to go.
> My Bluebank/Mazama/Bewitched combination has performed great in my more shaded areas that were struggling in previous years. Is that the Bluebank, Mazama or Bewitched....who knows, but i would assume its the mazama.
> 
> 
> 
> Well THANKS Steffan ! Yea, very low foot traffic, but I wonder exactly what constitutes "poor traffic tolerance"? Specifically, I have some variety of fine-bladed grass that is a "spring green"…SOME neighbors like it, but I hate the looks of WHATEVER it is, because it lays over (very non-erect, which makes it difficult to mow effectively and it just looks stupid laying over).
> I have a mix in a front area that is Mazama, Bewitched, and Midnight. I like it but I cannot discern what is what. It's "dark" though!🤗
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think they actually put a lot of traffic on it when they test it. Like can it withstand regular football games, baseball games, golf cart traffic. So for most people its probably fine, but I wouldn't open up a neighborhood wiffleball field with it. :lol:
Click to expand...

🤣Thanks my friend !!
I think, come mid-August, I will redouble my effort in my shady backyard, with 'Mazama.' Hope I can find some "Certified" stuff. Tired of that backyard looking mediocre.

On an aside, I wonder if others pause when neighbors tell you that your lawn looks "REALLY GREAT" and you are miserable with it? Not sure what to say (i.e. if you agree, it is not the truth, and your continued "fiddling" tells them you are 'nuts'…if you disagree, you sound like a snob…they accept mediocre, and you DON'T !)🤣


----------



## bf7

Ahhh nice truck man. The gladiators are sick!


----------



## steffen707

Well it's been too long since my last update. I got about 3.5 yards of pulverized soil spread out awaiting a pre-germinated seeding.

I just installed the edging around the deck today. Getting a 12 yard dumpster rolled off on Wednesday and renting a dingo next Thursday. Have about 7 yards of dirt to remove under the deck.


----------



## Wile

Seems like you have a lot happening. Excited to see the pre-germ reno. Yard looks great with the super cocktail. The NEXT products seem to produce really dark color and I love the way they look.


----------



## steffen707




----------



## steffen707




----------



## steffen707

I tried posting those photos about 5 times in the middle of nowhere upper Michigan. Finally.

I used through bolts and put another 2x10 on the inside part of that wall as well to sandwich the hollow blocks. A guy on a DIY deck forum with 50,000+ posts told me to do it, so I'm sure it'll work. Lol, sarcasm. It's better than a bunch of epoxy anchors that still only secure the ledger to one side of the hollow bricks.


----------



## steffen707

Wile said:


> Seems like you have a lot happening. Excited to see the pre-germ reno. Yard looks great with the super cocktail. The NEXT products seem to produce really dark color and I love the way they look.


Last week I also sprayed 5oz\k Dawn dish soap with the duck on the jug on the lawn. The new kbg seems to like it, the old lawn is looking kind of gray ish. Not sure if that's a coincidence or just because it's been abnormally warm recently.

The reno part of the lawn is holding strong at 1.5" ego cut. Only had one localized dry area that started to check out, but that's planted on a bunch of road base by the road.

My neighbor dug out about a foot width of the stuff stuck a boarder in the ground and planted some rye there. Think I'll tackle that project next year. Gotta replace like 6-9" of that road base with actual dirt.


----------



## steffen707

Ohh the garbage bags are each filled with about 3-4 gallons of old rock. I've been dumping 3-4 bags into each garbage pickup. It was working quite well, but now that I'm renting a dumpster, I'm just gunna dump all the rocks into that. Oh well plans change.


----------



## steffen707

I started the pregermination yesterday. Got two buckets, drilled holes in one, put my 3.75lbs of kbg into a paint strainer and zip tied it.

Used a 10lb dumbell to weight down the seed submerged in water for 24 hours.

Emptied the water, added fresh water, submerged the bag of seed a few times and emptied that water. Now the seed is sitting inside both buckets. So any water that drips out will just sink into the first bucket, there's about a two inch gap.

Need to resubmerge the seed every 12 or 24 hours. And dump the water out. Kbg should be ready in 5-7 days I've read/heard.









I'm doing this in our masterbathtoom. I don't smell anything yet, if it gets bad I'll move the buckets to the garage.

The shower makes it really easy for me to rinse before bed and when I wake up, the wifey doesn't mind too much.


----------



## steffen707

I've neglected to update my thread here for a while, but I had a 12 yard dumpster dropped off last Wednesday. I highly recommend putting plywood under the rear two wheels and the front frame area. I took last Thursday and Friday off, rented a dingo 427 from united rentals for $300 for the day and used 6 of my 8 allotted hours to move about 10yards of dirt/rock/pavers from the backyard to the front. I made sure to turn on the road, or on more plywood in my driveway, or an area I'm renovating in the back to limit grass getting killed.

Overall I only have three spots that got beat up. Going over a tree root, transitioning to the road going over my swale and the backyard where I made my final turn.

A bobcat would have done the job quicker, but would have messed the lawn up more.

Holy crap, even the 2200lb dingo (which is relatively light) compacted the grass by the turn and the tree a ton. Need to plug aerate for sure,but it's on next year's reno grass anyway.

I got two piers installed for the deck, and the ledger board up. My Milwaukee 3axis laser level is THE SHIT. It's so helpful in making these piers be exactly where I want em. I'm not using any posts, just a beam right on the pier, so it's level needs to be exact.

I discovered I had a buried 6" irrigation box I didn't know existed. Snagged the 8 wire irrigation wire. Nobody carries 8wire,except my local true value Frank's hardware. They were out too but ordered a 500ft spool and it was delivered the next day. I only needed 80' though to retrench the wire to my valve box(next year project). For this year it'll just be above ground,but under the deck.

The gorilla cart is proving to be totally worth $200. Without my JD riding mower, the cart is a godsend. 3 bales of peatmoss fit nicely in it. BTW, peatmoss has doubled since last year's reno. Good thing my wages doubled too...... :lol:  :roll:


----------



## bf7

How do you plan to dry and spread the pre-germ'd seed? I tried overseeding KBG into TTTF that way and it was a biotch. I ended up flinging it around with my hands. Total fail.


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> How do you plan to dry and spread the pre-germ'd seed? I tried overseeding KBG into TTTF that way and it was a biotch. I ended up flinging it around with my hands. Total fail.


I don't plan to dry it. 
From what I read, you mix it with milorganite and it'll stick to it. The Milo acts as a carrier for the seed so it spreads nicely.

I'll report back on Sunday how it goes. Worse case I just spread normal seed.


----------



## steffen707

Yo @bf7 , @lbb091919 , @JerseyGreens and @jskierko, you guys are all smart and have goregous lawns.

Can you tell me your opinions please on 3 questions. Keep in Mind i'm right in the middle of Central Wisconsin.


1 ----- I have 3k of 1 year old elite KBG, i'm doing a 1.5k reno and will be seeding my pre-germinated seeds this Saturday. I also have about 4k of lawn salad that I still want to look nice until it gets reno-ed in 1-2 years as well.

When should I do my fall pre-emergent prodiamine app? Should I wait for the 1.5k reno area i'm doing this fall to have grown a bit and do the whole lawn at the same time, roughly 60DAG? Should I do the 3k 1yr old and 4k salad soonish when the temps drop and then go back and do the 1.5k reno in 60DAG as per the Renovation guide (https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16808)?
The Fall Nitrogen Blitz article on the site says to do Fall PreM when soil temps drop.....Any suggestion on how much to drop before I do the pre-M?


2 ----- Do you stop doing PGR when you start Fall Nitrogen Blitz?


3 ----- When are you guys starting your Blitz?

Much thanks to any/all suggestions. I'm slowly leaning stuff and many of you are the reasons. I really appreciate it. My wife probably hates ya'll, but she doesn't have the green fever! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## lbb091919

Thanks, but I'm not that smart compared to some folks around here!

1 - I would treat the new 1.5k reno at the 60 day mark. That's a pretty important milestone and can save you from a ton of weed issues. That was late October for my reno last fall.

I would treat last year's 3k reno and the 4k salad when the time is right for your area (when soil temps are coming down and hovering around 70 F). For me, that would be late September. But would probably be sooner for you.

2 - Really personal preference. You might want to since it will be growing so fast but not necessary if you can keep up with the mowing. PGR does have its benefits outside of reducing too growth.

3 - I'm starting the blitz at the end of this month


----------



## bf7

1) I would pre-em the non-reno areas soon and the reno area at 60 DAG. 70F soil temp for several days is the general rule but I started early this year to cover myself. Certain sections of your yard are likely wetter / cooler / more shady where poa will germinate quickly

2) I stop pgr in the fall not because of the blitz but because I put down sand. If no sand I would take it through end of Sep, maybe early Oct

3) end of Aug / early Sep


----------



## jskierko

1) I would apply your pre-emergent prior to your previous application expiring. So if you applied at a 3 month rate in June, that would carry you through August. If you are not under any pre-emergent protection I'd get it down by the end of the month. Early is better than later. But as others have mentioned, several days of soil temps under 70 should be your trigger. I would treat any non-reno area when it's due and don't wait for your 60 DAG mark.

2) I use PGR during the blitz. Last year my last application was on 19-Sept. I usually try to time it so that PGR expires at least 2 weeks before the first frost so that the grass can slow its progression according to nature's schedule at the end of the year.

3) I target Labor Day weekend for the start of my blitz, then try to get 6-8 weekly apps of ~0.25 lbs N, then a 1 lb N winterizer sometime after Thanksgiving.


----------



## steffen707

Sweet! Sounds like all 3 of you said the same thing. I'll check my local university soil Temps online to see when we get to 70 deg and do the reno at 60DAG.

I've never done a blitz before, excited to see if it fills in more.


----------



## steffen707

Shoot, average soil temp is 68, guess I'm treating the lawn tomorrow!


----------



## lbb091919

There ya go! Blitz with granular is pretty easy to stay on top of. Spraying is where it can get time consuming but it's so much better


----------



## steffen707

lbb091919 said:


> There ya go! Blitz with granular is pretty easy to stay on top of. Spraying is where it can get time consuming but it's so much better


I've got a bunch of ams and installed a hot water line to my front yard hose bib, so I was going to spray it.

Do you water in the spray blitz applications? Immediately, or 4 hours later?


----------



## lbb091919

If you're spraying you'll want to rinse it off the leaves in the morning, especially with AMS


----------



## steffen707

I left work a little early and fixed a sliced sprinkler line, sprayed glyph on the reno area for the last time, sprayed the non-reno with Prodiamine, Azoxy (something going on with last year's reno where my neighbors sprinklers run wayyy too often and go on my lawn too) with AMS and some dye so I could make sure I missed the reno areas.

My pace was dead on tonight. I ran out of spray just as I covered the last of the backyard. Damn that's a good feeling. Also a bit scary because I thought I was for sure running out, but I kept walking the same pace and it lasted. 

I got a ton done today, but need to do a ton tomorrow as well so I'm ready for seed down on Saturday.

Thanks again everybody for your recommendations on things!


----------



## steffen707

lbb091919 said:


> If you're spraying you'll want to rinse it off the leaves in the morning, especially with AMS


Cool, glad I got the sprinkler line fixed first tonight.


----------



## steffen707

Luckily our thunderstorm has moved farther away from seed down Saturday. Hopefully my pre-germinated seed can already have a hold by this T-Storm.

We'll see.


----------



## lbb091919

steffen707 said:


> sprayed the non-reno with Prodiamine, Azoxy (something going on with last year's reno where my neighbors sprinklers run wayyy too often and go on my lawn too) with AMS and some dye so I could make sure I missed the reno areas.


I feel your pain there with the neighbors.



steffen707 said:


> My pace was dead on tonight. I ran out of spray just as I covered the last of the backyard. Damn that's a good feeling. Also a bit scary because I thought I was for sure running out, but I kept walking the same pace and it lasted.


I experimented listening to different songs while I spray and turns out Metallica's The Unforgiven is the perfect BPM to spray 1 gallon per thousand.


----------



## steffen707

lbb091919 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> sprayed the non-reno with Prodiamine, Azoxy (something going on with last year's reno where my neighbors sprinklers run wayyy too often and go on my lawn too) with AMS and some dye so I could make sure I missed the reno areas.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel your pain there with the neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My pace was dead on tonight. I ran out of spray just as I covered the last of the backyard. Damn that's a good feeling. Also a bit scary because I thought I was for sure running out, but I kept walking the same pace and it lasted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I experimented listening to different songs while I spray and turns out Metallica's The Unforgiven is the perfect BPM to spray 1 gallon per thousand.
Click to expand...

Oooh, I'll give that a try next week. I got to see them in concert about 3-4 years ago in Madison. They still rock!


----------



## JerseyGreens

I can't add anything else. You got some great advice already and don't need any more chefs in the kitchen.

One small curveball - I didn't apply any fall preM to my reno after planting...Mostly driven by nerves... I didn't want to mess around with any root pruning issues with my babies.


----------



## steffen707

JerseyGreens said:


> I can't add anything else. You got some great advice already and don't need any more chefs in the kitchen.
> 
> One small curveball - I didn't apply any fall preM to my reno after planting...Mostly driven by nerves... I didn't want to mess around with any root pruning issues with my babies.


I didn't PreM my reno last fall either, but that's cuz I ran out of time. This year I think I'm two weeks earlier. I'll have about 2 months to decide if I do this year.


----------



## jskierko

steffen707 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't add anything else. You got some great advice already and don't need any more chefs in the kitchen.
> 
> One small curveball - I didn't apply any fall preM to my reno after planting...Mostly driven by nerves... I didn't want to mess around with any root pruning issues with my babies.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't PreM my reno last fall either, but that's cuz I ran out of time. This year I think I'm two weeks earlier. I'll have about 2 months to decide if I do this year.
Click to expand...

Same situation for me. I reseeded a bunch of my reno the first week of September last year. So unfortunately by 60 DAG I was too far gone to get a pre-emergent down. I had some huge areas of Poa A in the reno this year. Hoping to get it under control next season. If I had the option to get it down during the reno season, I would.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@jskierko - get some PoaCure.


----------



## steffen707

JerseyGreens said:


> @jskierko - get some PoaCure.


Have you used PoaCure? Where do you buy it? I did a quick search, looks like its an Australian product. I emailed them at https://poacure.campbellchemicals.com.au/


----------



## steffen707

Man, yesterday I busted my butt to get the seed down, and I completely underestimated how much time i needed. I spent 7 hours doing this.
Re-route sprinkler head and fix wiring
Adjust all sprinklers in Reno Area
level piers 14' away from ledger 10.5" down from bottom of ledger
lay edging to be flush with soil and add 1" compacted soil then plug it
scalp grass, whip edges to dirt, Blow the debris and bag it 
scarify 2 directions to make seed bed

Then it started raining so I did the rest today, which took ANOTHER 7 hours.
scarify 2 directions to make seed bed
spread seed with milorganite
rake seed into bed lightly
1ST APPLICATION spray tenacity at 4oz/ACRE rate = 0.55 teaspoon / 1000sf first time with 0.1lbs/k AMS = 0.4762lbs of AMS per 1000sf
cover with peat moss
water in
Re-adjust the hose sprinkler and timer

Man, that Landzie peatmoss spreader is awesome! so glad I invested in that

I posted the below on the pre-emergent kbg thread, but i'll share it here too.
7 days kbg, I would have done it yesterday dat6 except it was rainy. The seed was a clumpy mess and I was worried, mixed with milorganite and it spread like butter. Such a homogeneous mixture. As long as it works, I'll never do seed the "old" way. 
It didn't stick to the paint strainer, I have my first greenish grass blade!

In the future, I'll flip the bag during each rinse, because the seed at the bottom was definitely further on than the stuff on the top of bag. (bottom was more wet, more often) 
The last photo is of the first grass baby! can't see it in the photo very well but there is green there.


----------



## steffen707

JerseyGreens said:


> @jskierko - get some PoaCure.


Grrr, the manufacturer Campbell directed me to this site, looks like only a golf superintendent can buy it?

https://www.poacure.com/pages/how-to-order-poacure


----------



## steffen707

steffen707 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jskierko - get some PoaCure.
> 
> 
> 
> Grrr, the manufacturer Campbell directed me to this site, looks like only a golf superintendent can buy it?
> 
> https://www.poacure.com/pages/how-to-order-poacure
Click to expand...

Okay, if you go to the above link, you can't buy it, if you go to this link https://www.poacure.com/collections/poacure, you can just do a normal online checkout. I didn't buy a bottle yet, $280 for 16ounces, damn! But the label (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0261/1065/6583/files/Label_PoaCure_SC_2021.pdf?v=1627359111) says 0.6oz/1000sf, so you could treat 26,666 sf with 1 bottle, or spot spray A TON. Maybe I can get 2-3 others to do a group buy? Any Takers!???! 

@JerseyGreens , have you used poacure? That would be badass to make poa BE GONE!


----------



## steffen707

Oh man, anxiety is building, even though I have a small reno this year, of course some storms coming...... Super glad I did the pre-germination thing this year, give the seeds a fighting chance to avoid washout.


----------



## steffen707

Well I figured out a new way to move soil, sand, rock, mulch.

Line your trailer with 5 gallon buckets before they dump the stuff in. Below is what 1 yard of blue basin 1.5" rock looks like in my dad's 6X10 trailer. I moved 9 buckets with my gorilla cart, I think I have to move half full buckets now. They're just too heavy, but really will speed up dumping the rock under my new deck.


----------



## Wile

Nice work on the pre-germ! Go time!


----------



## bf7

You pre-germ'd for 7 days right? Should be plenty of babies by now?


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> You pre-germ'd for 7 days right? Should be plenty of babies by now?


That's what I thought, but still no grass babies.


----------



## steffen707

@bf7, i looked closely this morning and we have liftoff! Which is really good because thunderstorms expected for 2-3 days starting tomorrow.   :shock: 
So my first round of seeding last year was 8/22, and i had grass babies on 8/28.

This year i pre-germinated for 7 days (which i think was 1-2 too much) and seeded on 8/13, and I have grass babies on 8/18.


----------



## steffen707

*2021 Renovation (My First)* 7.65" rain in 36 hours 9.5" in 60 hours https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=433948#p433948
First Seed Down -*8/22/21*
First Day Grass Babies -*8/28/21* https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=433973#p433973
Second Seed Down -*8/29/21*
14 days after initial seed down *9/5/21* https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=437251#p437251

*2022 Renovation*
Pre germination Start - *8/7/22*
Seed down day - *8/13/22*
First Day grass babies showed up - *8/18/22 * https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=522869#p522869 
14 days after initial seed down *8/27/22* - _*Will give update 9 days from now.*_

Since i'm such a veteran now, :lol: I really didn't go out and look for grass babies that hard until this morning, so maybe there were a few days earlier, but not by much comparing last years pics to this years.

So.....it took only 5 days instead of 6 to see grass babies start popping out of the peatmoss, but I pre-germinated the seed this time for 7 days too, So.......we'll see if this pre-germination thing is worth it in 1-2 weeks. I've read many times that pre-germination has a more consistent germination, so we'll see how that goes.

Next reno I think i'll do half pre-germinated, and half normal seeded, and then use all this info for my final renovation (round 4)


----------



## steffen707

I decided to try this fall blitz on last years reno. Applied
0.375lb N/k via AMS
2oz FEature
2oz Clearys 33gf

My spray tip started acting all funny halfway through the application. I swapped out for another tip and same thing happened, so I swapped ANOTHER tip and it cleared up.

I then used Blazer spray tank cleaner and sprayed 12 gallons of solution through all of my different nozzles. It seemed to clear things up on a few, but the inside of the tank is still filthy....

What do you guys do to keep your tips clean/clog free? I was thinking of just putting them in soapy water and let them soak after each application, but I don't know. I also keep losing my XRC rubber gaskets, gotta buy more.

I read some guy had good results with Erase from Precision Labs, so I ordered a quart bottle of that. 
Also read if you fill a bucket half full with water and 3 good squirts of dawn, and then agitate by submerging a pressure washer nozzle into the water, that somehow cleans them really well.

I'll try both and report back.

I love my Chapin sprayer, but these semi clogged tips are driving me nuts. I hope I don't have any dead grass from the tips dumping a bunch of solution in one spot.........we'll see.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01G7MU3H4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Wile

Congrats! Comin' in hot!


----------



## lawn-wolverine

Wile said:


> Congrats! Comin' in hot!


"Pull up Stryker. Pull up!"- 'Airplane'


----------



## bf7

Nice! From a storm standpoint, I actually had more issues after germination. There was a green fuzz over the lawn around 10 DAS, then the rain came and tore out the fresh seedlings. Washout of seed was a lesser problem.


----------



## steffen707

:shock:


bf7 said:


> Nice! From a storm standpoint, I actually had more issues after germination. There was a green fuzz over the lawn around 10 DAS, then the rain came and tore out the fresh seedlings. Washout of seed was a lesser problem.


 :shock: what are you trying to jinx me? Jk


----------



## jskierko

Did you make sure you used warm water and agitate to help dissolve everything and/or use a strainer? Sounds like you may have gotten some solid particles in your spray tip.


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> :shock:
> 
> 
> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice! From a storm standpoint, I actually had more issues after germination. There was a green fuzz over the lawn around 10 DAS, then the rain came and tore out the fresh seedlings. Washout of seed was a lesser problem.
> 
> 
> 
> :shock: what are you trying to jinx me? Jk
Click to expand...

You've been warned!


----------



## steffen707

jskierko said:


> Did you make sure you used warm water and agitate to help dissolve everything and/or use a strainer? Sounds like you may have gotten some solid particles in your spray tip.


I did use warm water and then a paint mixer. 
Do you do anything with your spray tips after you're done spraying?


----------



## jskierko

I usually just run half a tank of water through it to flush/clean it out after each application, but I haven't "cleaned" any of my spray tips this year. I disassemble and clean everything before I store at the end of the season, but that's it.


----------



## steffen707

Now you see em


Now you don't!



Finally got a yard of rock moved in the buckets. About 3/4 full, I needed 52 buckets.

Now with the piers installed, I can put the rest of the geotextile down and then need 2-3 more yards of rock....... It's about 10-11 trips from the driveway to the backyard with the gorilla cart. I need to borrow a riding mower or atv I think to move the trailer into the backyard. The first yard was a TON of work.


----------



## steffen707

I borrowed my dad's atv, wish I thought of that before I made 11 gorilla cart trips to the backyard.


----------



## bf7

The gorilla cart makes you a better man.


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> The gorilla cart makes you a better man.


That's debatable. :lol:

Work smarter not harder rings a bell. I'm looking to limit the chances of tweaking my back or neck again.


----------



## steffen707

Well the buckets in the trailer worked, but not if you want to wash your rock.

When I started this I didn't think the fines would be that big of a deal, but it created quite the sludge in my trailer.

My wife and I also decided to change rock type after the first yard, I just put all that where the deck will cover it, nobody will ever see it.


----------



## steffen707

Green haze is coming!


----------



## steffen707

Hey @JerseyGreens, how do you measure small quantities of liquid? I had to use 15ml of Sync this morning, I have a syringe with a very wide tip, it could barely suck it up. It has a 12g tip!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Graduated cylinders

https://www.amazon.com/Thick-Graduated-Measuring-Cylinder-Brushes/dp/B01ECAQPWA


----------



## steffen707

JerseyGreens said:


> Graduated cylinders
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Thick-Graduated-Measuring-Cylinder-Brushes/dp/B01ECAQPWA


Thanks bawse! Throw back to 7th grade chemistry class.


----------



## lawn-wolverine

steffen707 said:


> Green haze is coming!


 :thumbup: Hot dang! This is exciting! Thank you for sharing. I never tire of the wonder of a new lawn sprouting.


----------



## jskierko

steffen707 said:


> Hey @JerseyGreens, how do you measure small quantities of liquid?


I just use liquid medication syringes. The perks of working in a pharmacy! Most places will give you them for free though.


----------



## steffen707

jskierko said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey @JerseyGreens, how do you measure small quantities of liquid?
> 
> 
> 
> I just use liquid medication syringes. The perks of working in a pharmacy! Most places will give you them for free though.
Click to expand...

I have those, but how do you suck up liquid from a quart bottle with them? You pour out the liquid then suck up the amount you need?


----------



## jskierko

steffen707 said:


> jskierko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey @JerseyGreens, how do you measure small quantities of liquid?
> 
> 
> 
> I just use liquid medication syringes. The perks of working in a pharmacy! Most places will give you them for free though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have those, but how do you suck up liquid from a quart bottle with them? You pour out the liquid then suck up the amount you need?
Click to expand...

Exactly. I use kitchen measuring cups (marked with ounces) for my larger volume applications. That way if I'm applying 4 oz per k to a 4,000 sq ft section, its easy enough just to pour it up to the 16 oz line. For my lower volume products I keep a pack of solo cups in the garage and I just pour a ballpark amount of liquid in the cup, draw it up with the medicine syringe, pour any remainder back into stock bottle, then trash the solo cup.


----------



## steffen707

jskierko said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jskierko said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just use liquid medication syringes. The perks of working in a pharmacy! Most places will give you them for free though.
> 
> 
> 
> I have those, but how do you suck up liquid from a quart bottle with them? You pour out the liquid then suck up the amount you need?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly. I use kitchen measuring cups (marked with ounces) for my larger volume applications. That way if I'm applying 4 oz per k to a 4,000 sq ft section, its easy enough just to pour it up to the 16 oz line. For my lower volume products I keep a pack of solo cups in the garage and I just pour a ballpark amount of liquid in the cup, draw it up with the medicine syringe, pour any remainder back into stock bottle, then trash the solo cup.
Click to expand...

Cool, that was what I was thinking of. The 12g syringe needle eventually sucked up enough SYNC, but I need a better way for next time.

I'll try this and the graduated cylinders and pick.


----------



## steffen707

Today I believe is 14DAG. I've gotta compare last year's reno with this one when I'm on a computer.

Here are some photos of the progress. I'm really happy with the growth beyond the tree line, but I'm annoyed some of these other spots by the deck project are looking bare. Eh, it'll all fill in eventually.


----------



## steffen707

Last Saturday I left my heavy 0.5lb N AMS application with propiconazole on the lawn too long before watering. Probably should have watered right away. The grass is looking pretty sad. I could tell the 3-5 shades lighter green lawn happened overnight. Also, some of the fungal infected areas are now totally dead. So it was a double wammy to the lawn..... My first blitz, guess I got carried away.


----------



## lawn-wolverine

Ohhhh man, bummer! Hope things recover for you. My patchwork of large bare spots plus overseed exceeds my expectations so far, with pure 'Mazama.' That variety really seems to live up to its reputation in the shade. I am about 8 DAG.


----------



## steffen707

Awesome! 25% of my mix is mazama. Something has sprouted strongly in my shady backyard.


----------



## lawn-wolverine

steffen707 said:


> Awesome! 25% of my mix is mazama. Something has sprouted strongly in NY shady backyard.


👍👍


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> Last Saturday I left my heavy 0.5lb N AMS application with propiconazole on the lawn too long before watering. Probably should have watered right away. The grass is looking pretty sad. I could tell the 3-5 shades lighter green lawn happened overnight. Also, some of the fungal infected areas are now totally dead. So it was a double wammy to the lawn..... My first blitz, guess I got carried away.


Assuming this was a foliar app..when spraying I never go above 0.3 lbs N.

The green fuzz is looking awesome. Are you glad you went the pre-germ route?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Green fuzz is looking sweet man!

Take it a step further... when spraying AMS I wouldn't go above 0.2...plus it does better with apps that you are trying to water in like preM, certain fungicide apps, etc.

Urea all day if you want a true foliar N app.


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last Saturday I left my heavy 0.5lb N AMS application with propiconazole on the lawn too long before watering. Probably should have watered right away. The grass is looking pretty sad. I could tell the 3-5 shades lighter green lawn happened overnight. Also, some of the fungal infected areas are now totally dead. So it was a double wammy to the lawn..... My first blitz, guess I got carried away.
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming this was a foliar app..when spraying I never go above 0.3 lbs N.
> 
> The green fuzz is looking awesome. Are you glad you went the pre-germ route?
Click to expand...

I think so, but I was really hoping for a more uniform germination. Some of my seed already had tap roots before I put them on the soil, so...... Next time I won't pre germ as long.


----------



## steffen707

JerseyGreens said:


> Green fuzz is looking sweet man!
> 
> Take it a step further... when spraying AMS I wouldn't go above 0.2...plus it does better with apps that you are trying to water in like preM, certain fungicide apps, etc.
> 
> Urea all day if you want a true foliar N app.


Lol, I thought AMS was a foliar app....... Doh! 
I read the fall blitz guide, it said advanced users did up to 0.5N........... I don't have an advanced card yet. =)


----------



## JerseyGreens

steffen707 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Green fuzz is looking sweet man!
> 
> Take it a step further... when spraying AMS I wouldn't go above 0.2...plus it does better with apps that you are trying to water in like preM, certain fungicide apps, etc.
> 
> Urea all day if you want a true foliar N app.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, I thought AMS was a foliar app....... Doh!
> I read the fall blitz guide, it said advanced users did up to 0.5N........... I don't have an advanced card yet. =)
Click to expand...

That 0.5 is for granular!


----------



## steffen707

JerseyGreens said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Green fuzz is looking sweet man!
> 
> Take it a step further... when spraying AMS I wouldn't go above 0.2...plus it does better with apps that you are trying to water in like preM, certain fungicide apps, etc.
> 
> Urea all day if you want a true foliar N app.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, I thought AMS was a foliar app....... Doh!
> I read the fall blitz guide, it said advanced users did up to 0.5N........... I don't have an advanced card yet. =)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That 0.5 is for granular!
Click to expand...

FML........ Lol

Thanks for the heads up, back to 0.2N


----------



## bf7

Good to know on AMS. My soil borders on acidic so I use all urea.

Could the wet/clumping seed have anything to do with the less uniform germ? Or were the clumps totally eliminated with the milo carrier?

I had never seen the paint strainer technique until I saw you and Connor do it this year. Pretty cool.


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> Good to know on AMS. My soil borders on acidic so I use all urea.
> 
> Could the wet/clumping seed have anything to do with the less uniform germ? Or were the clumps totally eliminated with the milo carrier?
> 
> I had never seen the paint strainer technique until I saw you and Connor do it this year. Pretty cool.


I think the clumps were eliminated with the milo. I'm wondering if those spots were getting too much water, or not a lot of sun.

I have a soul PH of about 7, should I be using ams or urea?


----------



## steffen707

The last several years I lose a bunch of grass in the backyard by the trees, I have a hypothesis that the sprinkler blowout guy is blowing mine out too early, then in late fall, the trees are sucking up all the water, causing the grass to die........

So, I bought a broken 30 gallon Compressor off Facebook marketplace for $50, cleaned it up, painted it camouflage and made a manifold to charge the tank with my little 2gal Compressor, then blow my zones out myself.

Before you think $50 for a broken Compressor is expensive, a harbor freight 11 gallon tank is $60-70. I figured almost triple the size, with never flat wheels. I also figure this old craftsman tank is better made than the HF one. With the manifold, garden hose adapter thing with gauge and ball valve, spray paint, I've got about $100 into it.

I tried it this afternoon, worked like a charm. Takes 11 minutes for my Compressor to fill the 30 gallons, then I set a timer for 15 minutes to give the Compressor a rest and dump another 30 gallons through.

If I do 2 dumps per zone (probably more than enough) it'll take about 3 hrs.

If anybody wants part links or curious about how I hooked it up I can do a Lil write up.



Wonder why this won't make pressure.


----------



## steffen707

When your lawn salad 


looks better than your fairway. :shock:


----------



## lawn-wolverine

^^^ Whst do you attribute that second (bottom) picture's (in my phone's picture) kinda orange-y color on the middle there?
What is it and the cause? The Lawn Ginza says orange is of teen fertilizer burn. Different from rust of course.


----------



## steffen707

lawn-wolverine said:


> ^^^ Whst do you attribute that second (bottom) picture's (in my phone's picture) kinda orange-y color on the middle there?
> What is it and the cause? The Lawn Ginza says orange is of teen fertilizer burn. Different from rust of course.


I think it was already stressed from a fungus, then my over fertilization ended some of the more stressed spots.
Sucks, but it'll grow back.

Should I be thinning those areas out to let the grass creep in, or is it better to leave those spots?


----------



## lawn-wolverine

steffen707 said:


> lawn-wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^ Whst do you attribute that second (bottom) picture's (in my phone's picture) kinda orange-y color on the middle there?
> What is it and the cause? The Lawn Ginza says orange is of teen fertilizer burn. Different from rust of course.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it was already stressed from a fungus, then my over fertilization ended some of the more stressed spots.
> Sucks, but it'll grow back.
> 
> Should I be thinning those areas out to let the grass creep in, or is it better to leave those spots?
Click to expand...

GREAT question! I think I did some fert burn that looks exactly like that (hard to tell color on even a good phone). I overseeded mine (right or wrong) on that patch of about 5'x2' size.


----------



## steffen707

lawn-wolverine said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lawn-wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^ Whst do you attribute that second (bottom) picture's (in my phone's picture) kinda orange-y color on the middle there?
> What is it and the cause? The Lawn Ginza says orange is of teen fertilizer burn. Different from rust of course.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it was already stressed from a fungus, then my over fertilization ended some of the more stressed spots.
> Sucks, but it'll grow back.
> 
> Should I be thinning those areas out to let the grass creep in, or is it better to leave those spots?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> GREAT question!  I think I did some fert burn that looks exactly like that (hard to tell color on even a good phone). I overseeded mine (right or wrong) on that patch of about 5'x2' size.
Click to expand...

I was thinking of doing that as well, but I'm wondering if it's too late in the season to do it. Might as well give it a try I guess.

EDIT: Oh wait I can't do that, I sprayed that part of the yard with pre-m. Lol


----------



## Global Threat

@steffen707 Just wanted to say that I enjoyed your progress and write ups. It really helps out the lawn nut community a lot. Not only are you busy in life and your lawn, but you take time out to help us all out. Cheers man!!


----------



## steffen707

Well i think i've made up my mind. I sold my JD GX345 for $6,000 which is about what I had into it; however, I put 200 hours on that machine over 10 years. Not every day you get to use a piece of equipment for 10 years for free. =)

Anyways, i'm doing a bunch of landscaping next year and after renting a dingo to move 10 yards of dirt/rock, and then hand moving 4 yards of ruck with 5 gallon buckets, I think i'm ready to buy a used sub-compact JD 1025R.

I'm hoping to get one for under $10k, use it for a year or two, then sell it when my whole yard is done. Even if I lose a few thousand on the resale, it'll be worth it to save my back from all that work.

There are a few going to auction later this month in Wisconsin. Hopefully I can pick up one of them. =)


----------



## steffen707

Yesterday I got a ton of stuff done after work. I roughed up several spots that had little/no germination with my garden weasel, then spread seed by hand and cover with peatmoss.

I spread about 40lbs of sulfur. Then I sprayed some Azoxy and citogro on last years reno.

I did an AMS 0.25N, RGS 3oz, Air8 3oz, Humic 12 3oz. on last years reno and the lawn salad, but not the current 14day old reno.


----------



## steffen707

A week update on the south lawn


After my applications 2 days ago and a very cool and rainy day yesterday, the blue has come back. You can't see it very well in my photo but its there!


So, should I dethatch this area to help the living grass spread, or just let it go? It would also bring up a lot of the dead yellow grass, and reduce the BLAH hue over everything. I was thinking of maybe only doing half of it to see how it goes then do the remaining half.

Thoughts?


----------



## Ben4Birdies

steffen707 said:


> Thoughts?


If you have the time, I would do a test on part to see the difference that it would make.

Unfortunately for me, I've got too many other projects going on right now to focus on dethatching. If I get a good amount of free time, then maybe 🤔.


----------



## steffen707

Ben4Birdies said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> If you have the time, I would do a test on part to see the difference that it would make.
> 
> Unfortunately for me, I've got too many other projects going on right now to focus on dethatching. If I get a good amount of free time, then maybe 🤔.
Click to expand...

Hey, does dethatching break the pre emergent barrier of my Prodiamine?


----------



## lawn-wolverine

steffen707 said:


> Ben4Birdies said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> If you have the time, I would do a test on part to see the difference that it would make.
> 
> Unfortunately for me, I've got too many other projects going on right now to focus on dethatching. If I get a good amount of free time, then maybe 🤔.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, does dethatching break the pre emergent barrier of my Prodiamine?
Click to expand...

I cannot imagine how it wouldn't.


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> Ben4Birdies said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> If you have the time, I would do a test on part to see the difference that it would make.
> 
> Unfortunately for me, I've got too many other projects going on right now to focus on dethatching. If I get a good amount of free time, then maybe 🤔.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, does dethatching break the pre emergent barrier of my Prodiamine?
Click to expand...

I think it would depend on the setting.

I can tell you the deepest setting on the Sun Joe breaks it up well (I was trying to).

I doubt you'd break it just by removing dead material from the surface.


----------



## Wile

What kind of dethatcher? You could do a light pass to get some of the dead stuff out. I'm a fan of that for appearance. We're getting pretty late in the year to tear it up too much.

Most of the home use ones do not dig into the ground enough to really effect the pre-emergent barrier. The real power rakes might be able to, but still doesn't seem likely as you would have to dig down 1-2".


----------



## steffen707

Wile said:


> What kind of dethatcher? You could do a light pass to get some of the dead stuff out. I'm a fan of that for appearance. We're getting pretty late in the year to tear it up too much.
> 
> Most of the home use ones do not dig into the ground enough to really effect the pre-emergent barrier. The real power rakes might be able to, but still doesn't seem likely as you would have to dig down 1-2".


A sunjoe corded model.


----------



## Wile

Nice, I say have at it. Love my sunjoe


----------



## steffen707

Thanks @Wile !

I was looking over my photos from last year asking if these would fill in, can't wait to take the photos tonight of what did fill in. IT WILL AMAZE YOU, smash the like button and subscribe, lol :lol:

This is one reason i'm definately glad to have made this journal, i can go back see progress and whatnot to compare to other projects. I'm looking at my current reno thinking DAMN AREAS ARE BARE, but its probably no worse than last years. It'll fill in a bunch.

Photos taken May 15th, 2022 then 9/13/22, 
Some of these two's progress was from plugs, the dead area has been reseeded, I killed it on accident, not the turfs fault.



These two has the most noticeable difference.



These two dead spots are also my fault....but the fence line has a lot of progress.


----------



## steffen707

Grabbed some more to compare/contrast.

BTW, plugging the lawn in late May did make those areas look less bare, but I really didn't see the areas fill in until Aug/Sept. Now the areas I plugged are doing great. So im not sure if i'll plug in the future or just seed. It was a lot of work to do 100s of plugs......I think the most amazing part is that the 100s of bare dirt spots where I replaced the plugs with soil/peatmoss have totally filled in, nobody would ever know. Amazing!

These four were just from plugging. Again nothing filled in very quickly, then all of a sudden, BOOM, its almost full.







This one some of the grass on the right side of the trees is from this most recent seeding. I keep debating if I should have grass go right up to the mulch 6x6 beams. I should have seeded this strip with the rest of it......dumb, when in doubt plant more, you can always nuke it if you want....... =( next year i'll seed again i guess.


I've had such trouble keeping grass between these two trees. The next pic is what it looks like now 1 month after initial seed down with like 6-7 days of pre-germination, (1-2 too many) As you can see I almost have as much grass here as I had a month ago. =) This KBG is the shit!


----------



## lawn-wolverine

steffen707 said:


> Thanks @Wile !
> 
> I was looking over my photos from last year asking if these would fill in, can't wait to take the photos tonight of what did fill in. IT WILL AMAZE YOU, smash the like button and subscribe, lol :lol:
> 
> This is one reason i'm definately glad to have made this journal, i can go back see progress and whatnot to compare to other projects. I'm looking at my current reno thinking DAMN AREAS ARE BARE, but its probably no worse than last years. It'll fill in a bunch.
> 
> Photos taken May 15th, 2022


Outstanding!


----------



## steffen707

Just a little update. No idea why there isn't much germination on that big spot. I had grass there before........ It'll fill in, might have to do some plugging next year! 

It's possible that's because of compaction from driving the dingo Over that spot.........


----------



## steffen707

This picture is deceiving looks like it's 10" outside of the bucket, but in reality only sticks up 4"...... Don't think this will work in my chapin.


----------



## steffen707

I posted this in a new thread as well, but figured some of you smart dudes might see it here as well.

I've hired a company to blow out my sprinklers in the past, and i've had a lot of die off for my grass under trees and in the shady part of my lawn each year by spring.

They called to say they were going to blow my sprinklers out on 9/23. I feel like that's 4-6 weeks too early.

Obviously i want them blown out before ground freeze, but that should be 4-10 weeks from now.

I bought a 30gallon tank (that i'll fill up with my little pancake compressor) that i'll use to blow mine out myself this year, and I already tested it the other week, seems to work fine. 1 tank per zone is probably fine, but i'll do 3 per zone for good measure.

*I feel like them blowing out my sprinklers too early is causing the trees to suck up all the water available, and then the grass is dying. Is that possible?*

Below is the ground temps graphed by my local University of Wisconsin Stevens Point. We didn't break 40 degrees soil temp until November 13th last year.

I was thinking of waiting until I see snow forecasted with following days of cold before I blow them out. Or November 13th because opening day of Michigan Gun/Deer is 11/15 each year.

*Thoughts? Thanks! :bandit: *


----------



## Global Threat

I told my sprinkler company to wait, because I was doing a reno. They asked me when was ok. I looked at the forecast and told them. That was it.


----------



## jskierko

steffen707 said:


> They called to say they were going to blow my sprinklers out on 9/23. I feel like that's 4-6 weeks too early.
> 
> I bought a 30gallon tank (that i'll fill up with my little pancake compressor) that i'll use to blow mine out myself this year, and I already tested it the other week, seems to work fine. 1 tank per zone is probably fine, but i'll do 3 per zone for good measure.
> 
> *I feel like them blowing out my sprinklers too early is causing the trees to suck up all the water available, and then the grass is dying. Is that possible?*


9/23 is definitely too early, even for you northern folk. And I wouldn't get too caught up on the volume you are putting into each zone. Just run it long enough so it blows out the water, then mist, then basically fog, then stop. Too much air/pressure is not good for the gears in the sprinkler heads. And I agree that those trees are greedy water suckers. I have cut my irrigation in half or more over the last month and the areas around my tree rings are showing signs of stress.


----------



## steffen707

jskierko said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They called to say they were going to blow my sprinklers out on 9/23. I feel like that's 4-6 weeks too early.
> 
> I bought a 30gallon tank (that i'll fill up with my little pancake compressor) that i'll use to blow mine out myself this year, and I already tested it the other week, seems to work fine. 1 tank per zone is probably fine, but i'll do 3 per zone for good measure.
> 
> *I feel like them blowing out my sprinklers too early is causing the trees to suck up all the water available, and then the grass is dying. Is that possible?*
> 
> 
> 
> 9/23 is definitely too early, even for you northern folk. And I wouldn't get too caught up on the volume you are putting into each zone. Just run it long enough so it blows out the water, then mist, then basically fog, then stop. Too much air/pressure is not good for the gears in the sprinkler heads. And I agree that those trees are greedy water suckers. I have cut my irrigation in half or more over the last month and the areas around my tree rings are showing signs of stress.
Click to expand...

Thanks @jskierko , I've got a pressure gauge and adjustable pressure regulator on the tank, so I limit it to 45psi.

Im really excited to see how well the grass looks next spring.


----------



## steffen707

Well I don't know what happened, but my chapin has died. I can only get a dribble out of the pump and I feel no resistance in the spray wand/spray bar selector. This weekend I'll try to remove that plumbing. 

It seems like since I started spraying AMS, I've had nothing but plugged jets and pump issues..... =(.

I use put half tank hot water in, add in the AMS granules while I'm mixing with drill/paddle. But inevitably I get little chunks of stuff clogging the tips. I'm going to add an Inline filter I think. This coming off season I might step up to a 3 or 4 nozzle setup.

Update on the reno, it's slowly filling in. Gotta do some major plugging next spring, but my backyard is always problematic.

Checkout this hard as a rock dry soil picture I took in Virginia last week. Now I know what dry really looks like.


----------



## bf7

My Chapin died after half a season.

Get a My4Sons.


----------



## steffen707

I just put my winter fert down. A local place has a fertilizer program developed with the UW Extension suggestions in mind. I've used it for years and had a good lawn. I have friends that only apply this 4-5 bag per year and have pretty good looking lawns. I'm still using it for some of my fert, but other applications to get it to "great" lawn status. Home | Jay-Mar Inc | Pet & Farm Supplies The bags are 50lbs each and perfectly cover my ~9500sf lawn. I think they're now like $34 per bag. I'd rather give this local company my business than other big box stores.

Had some frost the other morning. Soil temps won't be below freezing for a while, but i'm going to do a few more mows, one more spray application and blow out the sprinklers. =( working on my basement remodel this winter and a new 3-4 tip spraybar setup for the chapin.


----------



## bf7

Cute bags


----------



## steffen707

bf7 said:


> Cute bags


yeah, i know most people on here probably prefer a more hands on picking their own sources of n-p-k, but this stuff is super convenient.


----------



## steffen707

Well nature happened today, first snow of the season.. It won't accumulate, but still, won't be long until it's all covered. I still have 1 more spray app before I'm ready to call it quits.


----------



## steffen707

I've been super busy with work, but this weekend it's supposed to hit 76 before dropping back to the 40s. So I better get the last of my yard work done. 

In other news...... Everybody that sprays AMS should put a filter into their setup before the pump, asap! 

Ive been having issues with clogged spray tips, then I discovered I never put my filters in my nozzles. Put them in then found out all this crap is coming from the AMS....... No wonder I had a pump failure.


----------



## macattack

I'd start prefiltering your liquid mix. Standard practice in the lab, and still use a filter before the pump. We do 0.45 micron or 0.20 micron prefiltering, though that's extreme. Get some 400 mesh (38 micron) or #635 mesh (20 micron) cloth, don't add particulates to the tank. It will filter that crap out. How convenient it is remains to be seen, to mix in hot water in a bucket and pour thru the sieve. A basic decanting step would also help.


----------



## steffen707

macattack said:


> I'd start prefiltering your liquid mix. Standard practice in the lab, and still use a filter before the pump. We do 0.45 micron or 0.20 micron prefiltering, though that's extreme. Get some 400 mesh (38 micron) or #635 mesh (20 micron) cloth, don't add particulates to the tank. It will filter that crap out. How convenient it is remains to be seen, to mix in hot water in a bucket and pour thru the sieve. A basic decanting step would also help.


Yeah, I probably should start doing that. I need to find a spin on lid with a spout......winter shopping!


----------



## steffen707

macattack said:


> I'd start prefiltering your liquid mix. Standard practice in the lab, and still use a filter before the pump. We do 0.45 micron or 0.20 micron prefiltering, though that's extreme. Get some 400 mesh (38 micron) or #635 mesh (20 micron) cloth, don't add particulates to the tank. It will filter that crap out. How convenient it is remains to be seen, to mix in hot water in a bucket and pour thru the sieve. A basic decanting step would also help.


I'm thinking of getting a lid with spout for a 5 gallon bucket then pour that through a mesh cloth into the sprayer. Should I put the screen over the spout on the 5 gallon bucket, or should I find some kind of 1 gallon paint strainer with elastic to go on the chapin sprayer, and i'd pour through that? Any tips on where to buy the 20-40 micron cloth? Is it easier to find it with the #635 or the 20 micron?

I think the paint strainers i found are only 200 micron, and the #635 siev's i've found must be for medical stuff, cuz they're like $200-400.








Advantech Stainless Steel Test Sieves, 8" Diameter, #635 Mesh, Full Height: Science Lab Sieves: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


Advantech Stainless Steel Test Sieves, 8" Diameter, #635 Mesh, Full Height: Science Lab Sieves: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com






EDIT: EDIT: Okay, i found some more palpable options. thinking a siev just bigger than the top of the chapin tank would be great. then I can leave the chapin strainer in place and put the sieve on top and pour through that.








LABALPHA 80 Mesh Lab Sieves, Test Sieve #80 Mesh, 4'' Diameter, 304 Stainless Steel Wire Cloth (0.2mm): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


LABALPHA 80 Mesh Lab Sieves, Test Sieve #80 Mesh, 4'' Diameter, 304 Stainless Steel Wire Cloth (0.2mm): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com


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## Ben4Birdies

steffen707 said:


> View attachment 2259


Have you been buying sprayable grade AMS?


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## steffen707

Ben4Birdies said:


> Have you been buying sprayable grade AMS?


Lol, probably not. I didn't know there was a spray able and non sprayable kind.

EDIT: I removed the label of the bag I thought I got.


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## Ben4Birdies

That’s got way more than just AMS. The label says it’s got 11 different products in it!

I’m not surprised your nozzles have been having issues. One or more of those products must not be fully dissolving in the water. Maybe it’s meant to be used with a spreader?

I’ve been buying straight AMS from a store meant for farmers, Hefty Seed Company. It says “sprayable” on the bag. I know that farmers definitely don’t want stuff messing up their sprayers.








Maybe for your micros you need to find something more water soluble if you want to be spraying them.


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## steffen707

Ben4Birdies said:


> That’s got way more than just AMS. The label says it’s got 11 different products in it!
> 
> I’m not surprised your nozzles have been having issues. One or more of those products must not be fully dissolving in the water. Maybe it’s meant to be used with a spreader?
> 
> I’ve been buying straight AMS from a store meant for farmers, Hefty Seed Company. It says “sprayable” on the bag. I know that farmers definitely don’t want stuff messing up their sprayers.
> View attachment 2453
> 
> Maybe for your micros you need to find something more water soluble if you want to be spraying them.


Crap, that was the wrong label I posted. I went back to the store, and the owner showed me pallet of that same bag you showed from Hefty that says "sprayable" on it.

Its still probably a good idea for me to mix this in a bucket before the sprayer. They also have 44-0-0 (ESN Polymer-coated Urea). I know that's not for spraying, but i might look into that for next year.

I heard AMS is better than Urea for my lawn with a slightly higher PH level. I think mine was 7.2. I'll have to go back and check.


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## bf7

+1 mix in a 5 gallon bucket with a paint mixer attached to a drill. Let sit for a few min and mix one more time.


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## Ben4Birdies

My vote would be for the AMS. The sulphate in that should help to lower your pH over time. If I was you I’d be applying primarily AMS until your pH gets down in the range of 6.5-6.7 or so.


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## Pete1313

bf7 said:


> +1 mix in a 5 gallon bucket with a paint mixer attached to a drill. Let sit for a few min and mix one more time.


+2.. I add one more step and pour thru a mesh screen when putting into the sprayer. I have stuff like this. You can mold it to fit the opening of your tank. 








Amazon.com: Ovsor 2Pcs 60 Mesh Stainless Steel Mesh16×50 inches (40.6×127cm), Woven Wire Mesh Not Easy to Rust Mesh Roll, Steel Screen for DIY Project, Floor, Hole, Garden, Vent Cover : Home & Kitchen


Buy Ovsor 2Pcs 60 Mesh Stainless Steel Mesh16×50 inches (40.6×127cm), Woven Wire Mesh Not Easy to Rust Mesh Roll, Steel Screen for DIY Project, Floor, Hole, Garden, Vent Cover: Chimney Caps - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


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## steffen707

Pete1313 said:


> +2.. I add one more step and pour thru a mesh screen when putting into the sprayer. I have stuff like this. You can mold it to fit the opening of your tank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: Ovsor 2Pcs 60 Mesh Stainless Steel Mesh16×50 inches (40.6×127cm), Woven Wire Mesh Not Easy to Rust Mesh Roll, Steel Screen for DIY Project, Floor, Hole, Garden, Vent Cover : Home & Kitchen
> 
> 
> Buy Ovsor 2Pcs 60 Mesh Stainless Steel Mesh16×50 inches (40.6×127cm), Woven Wire Mesh Not Easy to Rust Mesh Roll, Steel Screen for DIY Project, Floor, Hole, Garden, Vent Cover: Chimney Caps - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2569


Thanks for the great info Pete! I think my sprayer game will be much better next year.

I've been a bit lazy to post on here, but a few updates. I finally blew my sprinklers out on 11/6. This was almost 2 months AFTER the sprinkler blow out salesman wanted to do my system. I'm so glad I researched this, bought my own tank and did it myself. 2 more months of water for the grass as needed. The ground by the trees doesn't look hard/cracked like it did last year before winter. I also took the cap off my well line and pulled the plunger up from the check valve to let all the water back down into the well. I've heard letting that freeze in the check valve is what causes shitty check valves to die. Next time it dies i'll buy one with a bleeder valve on both sides of the checkvalve, but I'm going to see how long my current check valve will last. 

Yesterday we hit 70 degrees in central Wisconsin, this morning I woke up to 29 degrees that "felt like 19" Not the largest 1 day temp swing i've seen, but winter is finally here in time for Upper Michigan opening day of deer season on 11/15. Forcast from google says snow on the 15th. That would be really awesome to sit in my stand with a full day of snow for opening day. Can't wait!

To all the hunters out there, good luck! I hope ya'll have a great holiday season!


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