# Transition Zone



## mufugginmanny (Jul 5, 2019)

Hello everyone,

I live in the transition zone (southeast Virginia, zone 8a), and was wondering if anyone has had any luck with cool season grass. I think I wanna try KBG in the future, maybe for the backyard. I currently have some sort of bermuda grass, and it looks like it is taking over some spots that used to be bare on one side of the yard. The other side is infested with weeds, but there's a tiny spot with bermuda that might take over if I play my cards right. If not, KBG is what I want to do. It's it feasible in my area?


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## The Anti-Rebel (Feb 16, 2019)

Is it possible? Sure, but it will take a lot more inputs than Bermuda.


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## mufugginmanny (Jul 5, 2019)

The Anti-Rebel said:


> Is it possible? Sure, but it will take a lot more inputs than Bermuda.


By inputs, do you mean more water and fertilizer?


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

mufugginmanny said:


> The Anti-Rebel said:
> 
> 
> > Is it possible? Sure, but it will take a lot more inputs than Bermuda.
> ...


Probably more water and fungicides. Not sure you will need any extra fertilizer.


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## mufugginmanny (Jul 5, 2019)

Both parts of my yard get plenty of sun, with the eastern side getting shade mid afternoon (maybe 2-3pm). I've read some good things about KY-31, but really like that deep blue-green KBG color.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

mufugginmanny said:


> Both parts of my yard get plenty of sun, with the eastern side getting shade mid afternoon (maybe 2-3pm). I've read some good things about KY-31, but really like that deep blue-green KBG color.


I'm not familiar with that area of Virginia, but I would guess that your best options are bermuda and TTTF. I would pass on the KY31. 
TTTF will give you a nice color. 
KBG might work, but it will likely be an uphill battle at least starting out. An irrigation system would help, as would a healthy amount of experience in renovating and using fungicides. 
I would also check UV website to see what the common grass types are for your specific region.


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## mufugginmanny (Jul 5, 2019)

social port said:



> mufugginmanny said:
> 
> 
> > Both parts of my yard get plenty of sun, with the eastern side getting shade mid afternoon (maybe 2-3pm). I've read some good things about KY-31, but really like that deep blue-green KBG color.
> ...


Excuse my ignorance, but what is UV website? Never thought about the TTTF, but if it gives a nice color, I may be all for it.


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

mufugginmanny said:


> Both parts of my yard get plenty of sun, with the eastern side getting shade mid afternoon (maybe 2-3pm). I've read some good things about KY-31, but really like that deep blue-green KBG color.


if your objective is improving your current yard i would do a hard pass on K31. spend your money on quality seed/varieties that are going to be better in pretty much every aspect over k31.

also, UV = University of Virginia


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@mufugginmanny , yes, UV is university of Virginia. Most state university websites have information that will be helpful for you. - things like common turf types, common diseases, common weeds for your area, fertilizer app recommendations. 
Yes, look at TTTF. That will give you color that rivals bluegrass. It should be easier for you to establish and maintain as well, except for overseeding and brown patch.


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## mufugginmanny (Jul 5, 2019)

Haha dang. I'm not from out here so I didn't make the connection to University of Virginia. Thanks guys. I'll take a look at TTTF.


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## sam (Mar 10, 2018)

I've always thought Virginia Tech was the source for info about turf in Virginia rather than UVA

https://www.sites.ext.vt.edu/newsletter-archive/cses/2008-03/WhatGrass.html

https://www.pubs.ext.vt.edu/SPES/SPES-66/SPES-66.html


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## sam (Mar 10, 2018)

mufugginmanny said:


> Haha dang. I'm not from out here so I didn't make the connection to University of Virginia. Thanks guys. I'll take a look at TTTF.


Don't worry, I don't think people from Virginia don't call it UV either


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## mufugginmanny (Jul 5, 2019)

sam said:


> I've always thought Virginia Tech was the source for info about turf in Virginia rather than UVA
> 
> https://www.sites.ext.vt.edu/newsletter-archive/cses/2008-03/WhatGrass.html
> 
> https://www.pubs.ext.vt.edu/SPES/SPES-66/SPES-66.html


Virginia Tech actually has an agricultural research facility in Virginia Beach down the street from where I used to live, so that makes sense. Thanks for the links!


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

University of Virginia is UVA. But VA Tech is the university with agricultural courses and information on growing things. You can call your local extension office to get recommendations. What county or city are you in? I'm in Richmond. Most common grass here is turf type tall fescue (tttf). Some people have Bermuda or zoysia. Maybe a few might have KBG but I wouldn't attempt it. Tttf is hard enough to manage. It's great September through May or maybe even into June. But the heat is brutal in July and August and the tttf grass suffers (as would KBG). You will likely have to overseed most every September. Bermuda and zoysia thrive in the summer but turn brown in the winter. It's just dormant, not a problem, but it is brown. So if color is your concern and you can't stand brown during the winter, your best choice is tttf. Avoid rye, especially annual rye which will die in the spring. It's sold because some people with Bermuda plant annual rye each fall to have green color during the winter. Tttf and KBG will turn brown (and even die) in the summer unless you water.


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## 86halibut (Jun 23, 2019)

Not sure if it's much help but I'm in Northern VA and I managed to grow some KBG. It was a rushed renovation and I had no prior knowledge but the with the help of the internet and some patience it turned out pretty good. I say if you want KBG go for it man, it's just grass.


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## mufugginmanny (Jul 5, 2019)

Virginiagal said:


> University of Virginia is UVA. But VA Tech is the university with agricultural courses and information on growing things. You can call your local extension office to get recommendations. What county or city are you in? I'm in Richmond. Most common grass here is turf type tall fescue (tttf). Some people have Bermuda or zoysia. Maybe a few might have KBG but I wouldn't attempt it. Tttf is hard enough to manage. It's great September through May or maybe even into June. But the heat is brutal in July and August and the tttf grass suffers (as would KBG). You will likely have to overseed most every September. Bermuda and zoysia thrive in the summer but turn brown in the winter. It's just dormant, not a problem, but it is brown. So if color is your concern and you can't stand brown during the winter, your best choice is tttf. Avoid rye, especially annual rye which will die in the spring. It's sold because some people with Bermuda plant annual rye each fall to have green color during the winter. Tttf and KBG will turn brown (and even die) in the summer unless you water.


I live near the northwest corner of Chesapeake. I know about the bermuda turning brown so it doesn't bother me. It's in my front years and I'm starting to mow that a little low, hopefully it takes over, but I'm afraid it'll turn a little brown with this heat. It'll get plenty of water from me these next few days. The backyard needs love. I've been letting it do it's thing but I wanna be prepared for the fall.


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## ronjon84790 (Aug 2, 2018)

I maintain an all KBG backyard in a Zone 8b. It's more work in my dry climate, but I love it. I've been using N-ext products, organic and synthetic fertilizer, liquid peat moss, PGR, and iron this year. I've also been maintaining it at 1.25" HOC. It's been doing great this summer so far. Last Wednesday it hit 108 degrees and the heat has not let up. We average 30+ days over 100 degrees each year and have less than 10 inches of total rainfall. I've also been watering less this year due to my soil improving.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Phone number for Chesapeake extension office is 757-382-6348.


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## mufugginmanny (Jul 5, 2019)

86halibut said:


> Not sure if it's much help but I'm in Northern VA and I managed to grow some KBG. It was a rushed renovation and I had no prior knowledge but the with the help of the internet and some patience it turned out pretty good. I say if you want KBG go for it man, it's just grass.


I'd just go for it, but I'm on very limited time. The navy likes to work us to death. I also don't wanna spend the money if it's just gonna be a pain in the ***. Who knows, a few years down the road I may try it


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## mufugginmanny (Jul 5, 2019)

ronjon84790 said:


> I maintain an all KBG backyard in a Zone 8b. It's more work in my dry climate, but I love it. I've been using N-ext products, organic and synthetic fertilizer, liquid peat moss, PGR, and iron this year. I've also been maintaining it at 1.25" HOC. It's been doing great this summer so far. Last Wednesday it hit 108 degrees and the heat has not let up. We average 30+ days over 100 degrees each year and have less than 10 inches of total rainfall. I've also been watering less this year due to my soil improving.


That is crisp! I just want to roll around in it. Sounds like a lot of time and money with those supplements. I wanna start buying them. The only thing I've applied to the front is Milo. Seems to be holding up fine, but we've also been getting drenched. My grass (along with the weeds) grew quite a bit since I last cut it on Wednesday. Overall it looks pretty decent, but up close you can see all the shenanigans going on.


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## ronjon84790 (Aug 2, 2018)

Thanks! @mufugginmanny

It's a lot of work, money, and time with any type of grass. But it's a hobby and hard work pays off.


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## mufugginmanny (Jul 5, 2019)

ronjon84790 said:


> Thanks! @mufugginmanny
> 
> It's a lot of work, money, and time with any type of grass. But it's a hobby and hard work pays off.


Yeah very therapeutic!


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

You don't know until you try. I say go for it. I grow kbg in st louis.


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

I am over an hour south of Chesapeake and I have successfully had a tttf lawn for 10 years and a few of my neighbors do as well. Your challenge will be when to over seed. At recommended times it's still very hot in our area. There is a ton of great advice on this site and on you tube. Just keep in mind a lot of the others are well north of us. So that sets there lawn clock ahead and behind us! Read up on fungicides, you will need at least two from two different classes. Talk to the guys at turf and garden, they are smart guys, it's worth me driving an hour for some good advice. I have been over-seeding with their southern bell blend, it's pretty good seed. I can really say the lateral spread technology in their seed works! I have watched patches of dead poa I have killed fill in with fescue. This year I may order some of Pete's seed from gci turf, he is a good NC guy! Good luck any questions pm me!


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## sam (Mar 10, 2018)

I can't comment on KBG based on experience, but I can agree with Virginia girl's comment that for those of us live in the transition zone, TTTF is hard enough! :lol:


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## Darrell_KC (Mar 20, 2019)

Since you mentioned color and TTTF, take a look at @FORT 's renovation. That is some beautiful color for TTTF. In KC where it gets dry and damn hot in the summer, I found KBG to be a little too high maintenance. If you dont stay on it with a good watering schedule, it will brown up on you. I grew some KBG and bermuda side by side, and opted for the bermuda simply because I liked the color and that even with little maintenance, it was growing and spreading like crazy. I wouldnt have been upset with KBG but I wouldve known Id be in for a little more work. TTTF can also handle the dry spells better than a KBG would depending on how hot it gets there


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## FORT (Oct 26, 2018)

@mufugginmanny I did a full TTTF reno last year and things are going pretty good. I was battling fungus in June and first part of July but have it under control. I don't have irrigation but I have hooked up a sprinkler to the hose and have watered 2 times this year. Here are some pics from this morning. Check out my journal if you want to see more details.


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## mufugginmanny (Jul 5, 2019)

@bigdrumnc I'm gonna check out the Suffolk turf and garden this weekend. It's only a few minutes from my house
@fort I took a quick peek through your journal. Solid work!


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

This next week or so will be the test for my lawn! 10 days of my area in a heat advisory. So far my lawn has been ! We shall see, welcome summer!


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