# modrakv wet backyard issue



## modrakv (Apr 17, 2019)

This is the best image I can produce right now as I'm at work. Its from the Zillow ad when our home was sold to us (Apr 2014). You can see the hill in question. The problem area extends the entire width of the hill from the back of the garage to about 18" up the hill. With the center between those two points being the most problematic.

Also -- in the pic you can see a vehicle parked on a slab. That slab was turned into a large two car detached garage last Spring. With two four foot downspouts at the rear aimed toward my house. I am suspicious this led to my wetter than normal season last year. Thats a lot of square footage of run off that previously may have went down their pitched driveway and into the road.

I have done reading on French drains and came to the conclusion that it may not be the end-all-be-all solution due to concerns over how they perform in clay soils. I.e. water not being able to move through the clay effectively enough to find its way into the trench and drain. So for now that is my last case scenario. My second last case scenario is just to ride it out and deal with it as this is our "starter home" and plan to move within five years.

So I am in search of a chemical solution. Not too sure if there is a miracle spray out there. The Penterra reviews seemed quite good and in my novice opinion exactly what I needed.


----------



## modrakv (Apr 17, 2019)

I thought perhaps spraying the entire hill with Penterra (in addition to the low lying problem areas) would help capture some of the run off before it makes it way to the bottom of the hill. The hill is never soggy and requires regular irrigation in the Summer to keep it lush and green.

Also worth mentioning my garage has two down spouts at the back. One on each side. Last weekend I redirected the corner which you can see in the picture across the garage to the other side. I put an angle at the bottom and attached it to a 25 foot section of downspout. So i'll be sending less of my own water into my backyard. I don't see this as being a huge improvement but figured it couldn't hurt at all and was only $50 in parts plus an hour of labor.


----------



## ErosionWizard (Apr 7, 2019)

@modrakv I wish i was closer to you and could test your soil with this material I'm using at 2 houses. Depending on just how bad the soil is. You could improve your situation a lot by applying Gypsum and than PeneGator on top of that. I would be more than happy to help you out if you would be interested in doing a side by side test in your yard. The product you got on one side and gypsum and PeneGator on the other. Could be cool to see how they proform next to each other.


----------



## modrakv (Apr 17, 2019)

@ErosionWizard Thank you for the offer! Milwaukee would be quite the hike for you. Ha. I'm no pro (I just Google things) but I read that Gypsum as a topdressing isn't super beneficial. Its best when mixed into the soil. For now I'm not trying to tear out that section of lawn. Only looking to improve what is already there. It's not awful. When it isn't flooded the grass is thick, green and healthy. Just during Spring/Fall rainy seasons it's unmanageable.

For now my plan of action is firstly a Penterra app. Then when the grass is 100% growing for the year and things dry out slightly (not puddled and muddy) I will rent a core aerator (Mid-May?) followed up immediately with a Milo app and organic compost top dressing. And since I'll have the top dressing down I'll throw some new seed in there as well. Followed by more Penterra apps (monthly).

I will get before, during and after pics!


----------



## ErosionWizard (Apr 7, 2019)

@modrakv I would tend to agree with the gypsum need to be in the soil. The older way of using it is to spread it on the ground. Over time it will breakdown in the soil. Not till than will you get benefits to the ground. 
I was thinking to send you both products to test. Solution Gypsum is very different than what the regular home owner has access too. It will water down and be in the soil faster than when it has to go through the breakdown process. i would treat your hill the same as I'm doing in my yard. The gypsum fist and than PeneGator after that. Both things will help to restructure your soil so that it can function properly. These are farm products that have been helping the soil that grows our food for many years now. It will help grass grow also. I think it would be incredibly interesting to see the product you paid for up against the free PeneGator I send you. That way you can decide if one is better than the other. Just a idea. I understand if you are not interested. Thank you for the reply and I hope to see your project processing.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@modrakv @ErosionWizard I split the conversation from that thread to this one.

Modrack, I think the back of your property should be graded differently. I think you should add a drain at the bottom of the neighbors hill to drain the water toward the left and right edges of your property (assuming there is a storm water drain). I will then add soil in your yard to slope it at 5degrees towards the same drain. This will move the water out and allow it to dry up.


----------



## ErosionWizard (Apr 7, 2019)

g-man said:


> @modrakv @ErosionWizard I split the conversation from that thread to this one.
> 
> Modrack, I think the back of your property should be graded differently. I think you should add a drain at the bottom of the neighbors hill to drain the water toward the left and right edges of your property (assuming there is a storm water drain). I will then add soil in your yard to slope it at 5degrees towards the same drain. This will move the water out and allow it to dry up.


I agree all that expensive stuff can't hurt. But I think it also can't hurt to do the more afordable stuff first. No mater how much dirt work you do, the soil will be the same. The clay we all fight with has a negative charge. To help the structure we have to add material or matter that has a positive charge. Gypsum is a double positive. That is probably part of why or how it is beneficial to clay soil. If you can make the soil function better, you may not have to throw so much money at the problem. Even with out the gypsum, sounds like the product you have and the one I'm offering are both going to help the water flow in and out of the soil. The PeneGator will bond to the clay at the molecular level. I'm not exactly sure how the other one works.


----------



## modrakv (Apr 17, 2019)

g-man said:


> @modrakv @ErosionWizard I split the conversation from that thread to this one.
> 
> Modrack, I think the back of your property should be graded differently. I think you should add a drain at the bottom of the neighbors hill to drain the water toward the left and right edges of your property (assuming there is a storm water drain). I will then add soil in your yard to slope it at 5degrees towards the same drain. This will move the water out and allow it to dry up.


Thank you for creating a proper space for this. It evolved off topic a bit. :?

I will post a crude pic of my block to show exactly what we're dealing with here. Unfortunately there are no proper storm drains between the back yards.


----------



## modrakv (Apr 17, 2019)

ErosionWizard said:


> @modrakv I would tend to agree with the gypsum need to be in the soil. The older way of using it is to spread it on the ground. Over time it will breakdown in the soil. Not till than will you get benefits to the ground.
> I was thinking to send you both products to test. Solution Gypsum is very different than what the regular home owner has access too. It will water down and be in the soil faster than when it has to go through the breakdown process. i would treat your hill the same as I'm doing in my yard. The gypsum fist and than PeneGator after that. Both things will help to restructure your soil so that it can function properly. These are farm products that have been helping the soil that grows our food for many years now. It will help grass grow also. I think it would be incredibly interesting to see the product you paid for up against the free PeneGator I send you. That way you can decide if one is better than the other. Just a idea. I understand if you are not interested. Thank you for the reply and I hope to see your project processing.


Thank you for the offer. I will politely decline. I am not up for doing test sections at this time. Penegator seems quite similar to Penterra. However the liquid gyspum is intriguing. After some quick Googling I came across something at HD called Medina 1 gal Soil Activator. Is this essentially compost tea? That would be right up my alley. The reviews are all favorable and in-line with my issue. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Medina-...k9j9mo1XMPiVG8lF6PIO1TB2wC0nlbhBoCXJAQAvD_BwE


----------



## modrakv (Apr 17, 2019)

Here is my very best Google Image/ Microsoft Paint official modrakv rendering. 2019 edition.


----------



## modrakv (Apr 17, 2019)

Better pics of the wet spots!


----------



## modrakv (Apr 17, 2019)

The worst spot is the lighter shade of green between the hill and the left side of the top pic.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The very detail topview from Google maps really helped me visualize this area.

I really think you need to slope your yard close to the back hill and maybe some Michigan Spartans trenches from your lawn to the back. It looks too flat and water will puddle there. A slope towards the back help the water move and dry faster.

In the diagram your downstream neighbor has a gravel filled trench. What is the trench exit point? Could it be accumulating water that doesn't exit?

Based on the location of your neighbor fence, is part of the neighbor hill in your property?


----------



## modrakv (Apr 17, 2019)

g-man said:


> The very detail topview from Google maps really helped me visualize this area.
> 
> I really think you need to slope your yard close to the back hill and maybe some Michigan Spartans trenches from your lawn to the back. It looks too flat and water will puddle there. A slope towards the back help the water move and dry faster.
> 
> ...


I'm glad the image helped!

My neighbors gravel trench just ends at the otherside of his yard. There is no proper outlet. I assume its just dug down a foot deep and filled with rock. So it certainly stores water in it. The yard down stream from his has no trench, just lawn, like mine.

The hill is entirely my property. I own to the very top of it. Where you see the cable and yellow plastic tube coming down into the ground marks the lot line.

Where the neighbors fence ends his property still continues but it is filled in with some trees and overgrown brush. Thats where the rabbits live and is the preferred dumping location for tossing dead critters.

I've not heard of a Michigan Spartan trench. And a quick Google search only yielded college football stuff. Any links?


----------



## modrakv (Apr 17, 2019)

I should note that each lawn is stepped down about a foot or foot and a half to the next lawn. So his trench might bottom out at that point and allow the water to "spill out" on to the next lawn. In theory. I've never been over there to scope it out. They're not very sociable people. The neighbor up stream from me is great. And is willing to do whatever to help with the water situation (with me being the laborer as he has back and knee problems).


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Check this thread.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2989&p=100591&hilit=Spartan#p100591


----------



## modrakv (Apr 17, 2019)

Interesting. As of right now digging in trench/drain tile lines isn't something i'm willing to undertake. However, any benefit to core aeration followed by top dressing with a course/medium grit sand? I do intend to core aerate in a few week. I plan on throwing down my first app of Milo at that point followed immediately by top dressing with organic compost and over-seeding.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I was brainstorming and drawing sketches. You might not need to do the sand trenches.

The main thing in my opinion is to have that are graded toward the back. Sand capping is a good method. Aerating and adding sand might help but not as much as grading, in my opinion. Getting the water out of there by gravity is faster and easier than the soil moving it below grade. Plus once your neighbor has the rock trench that likely is keeping the sublayers wet, there is no easy way for the water in your area to move into.


----------



## modrakv (Apr 17, 2019)

Thank you for the input. I would agree that a proper grade would be most beneficial. I'm just trying to get away with avoiding any thing too extreme at this time. My mind could change though. Last year for whatever reason it was problematic for me. The years prior, not so much. The only thing that changed was the addition of my neighbors behind me (up hill) adding a detached garage where there once was just a slab. It has downspouts pointed toward my lawn, granted it quite a ways in from my lot line, but I believe in years priors all rain water collected on the slab merely ran down their driveway and into the road or off the side of their driveway. Now all of that is captured by the gutters and directed onto their back yard lawn. I'd love to tell them to run their downspouts off to their side lot line and into that guys yard. But thats not a proper solution.

Another odd idea that came to mind was to sacrifice that wet section and plant some type of decorative tall grass that thrives in moist/wet soil. Something that would grow tall and perhaps provide a bit of privacy for my back yard. But that would look a bit odd since it wouldn't grow on the hill and would only be a "random" area of tall out of place looking grass.


----------



## modrakv (Apr 17, 2019)

A little update. I was able to put down 14oz of Penterra over 3000+ SQ FT in the backyard on Tuesday 4/30. Yes, way more than prescribed. I timed my app at the beginning of a rainy stretch. Since I put my app down we've gotten over an inch of rain per my rain gauge. So it's as watered in as possible. I used a hose end sprayer to apply too. But I'm not so sure how it'll work. There was puddled areas when I was applying. Hard to imagine how this will get pulled into the soil when the soil is already saturated. We've basically gotten rain/snow every day for a week straight. Probably 2+ inches since last week this time. I checked the backyard yesterday and it didn't look any different than normal but it was during a rain storm when I looked. It's supposed to be sunny and 60s this weekend. We'll see how the lawn responds then.


----------

