# Arden 15 Eastern NC Rennovation



## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

Hello!

I've been following the lawn forum for a little while now and finally took the plunge to make an account and make my first post.

My wife and I recently bought a new construction in Eastern NC and the back yard was in rough shape... Our soil is extremely sandy and the total size of the back yard is about 6,800 square feet. The contractors only sodded the front yard and around the perimeter of the house, nothing past that. They also threw down a contractors seed mix that never seemed to take and barely covered anything. Needless to say, I decided to begin my own renovation and start from the bare dirt. My first step I took was removing the sod from the perimeter on the backside of the house, which came up a little too easy considering it was only pulled up by hand. To my dismay, I found tons of rocks, roots, and trash underneath. I then went on to till the entire back yard, built a lawn level drag and leveled, rolled, fertilized, seeded, rolled again, covered with straw due to budget constraints (would've preferred peat moss), watered in fertilizer manually, and finally setup my sprinklers.

Unfortunately I didn't get a lot of pictures throughout the process, as I wasn't sure if I would make a lawn journal or not.

Progression:

Day 4: Possibly first sign of Arden 15 germination?

Day 8: Starting to see more of the same seedlings popping through. 

Day 12: I feel like things are going well. Apart from the huge storm we had today that flooded a good bit of the yard... I'm very confused at this point which stuff is actually the Arden 15 and what isn't. I was hoping to be a little further along by this point, but I'm still thinking positive.

I've seen a couple of posts about this before but I still can't really tell from their pictures and my own what germinated Arden 15 looks like. Would someone be able to help me identify this? Here are the photos from today (Day 12). Is it the thicker blades or the tiny blades in the second picture? Maybe both?





Thanks for taking the time to check out my journal and if you have any tips, tricks, or advice in general, please let me know!


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## Herring (Sep 19, 2020)

I'm near Topsail, also seeded Arden 15 and having the same pop up, today is day 8. 
Looking forward to your progress!


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## rjw0283 (May 11, 2020)

@LucidLawns Your last picture is the Arden 15. (The darker green thinner bladed curlier grass)
Your first and 3rd picture looks like crabgrass with some nutsedge in there. 
I wouldn't worry much about the weeds, I'd hand pull them for now.
Just focus on the Arden 15 growing in. You can handle the weeds later if you don't feel like hand pulling.


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## kalcormier (May 9, 2021)

I'm right there with you. I put my Arden seed down 10 days ago. I had started some in some starter pods last month just to see what they look like and how fast it would germinate. But I'm having difficulty telling the arden from weeds and common coming back out in the yard.


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

Herring said:


> I'm near Topsoil, also seeded Arden 15 and having the same pop up, today is day 8.
> Looking forward to your progress!


That's awesome! It's painful to watch the first few days, but these past couple it's really been taking off. I am excited to see how yours progresses as well!


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

rjw0283 said:


> @LucidLawns Your last picture is the Arden 15. (The darker green thinner bladed curlier grass)
> Your first and 3rd picture looks like crabgrass with some nutsedge in there.
> I wouldn't worry much about the weeds, I'd hand pull them for now.
> Just focus on the Arden 15 growing in. You can handle the weeds later if you don't feel like hand pulling.


This is very troubling news. Unfortunately there are barely any spots of the thinner blades curlier grass. I'm not so sure the thicker blades are crab grass though (Definitely some nutsedge in there). The thicker bladed stuff is everywhere, and if that isn't the Arden 15 I am in some big trouble.

Here are some more pictures for reference.

Thinner blades up close:



Thicker blades:


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

kalcormier said:


> I'm right there with you. I put my Arden seed down 10 days ago. I had started some in some starter pods last month just to see what they look like and how fast it would germinate. But I'm having difficulty telling the arden from weeds and common coming back out in the yard.


It's really nerve-racking with how much the seed costs lol.


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## rjw0283 (May 11, 2020)

Can you pull some of the thicker blade stuff and post pictures? Is it from runners or is it straight roots?


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

rjw0283 said:


> Can you pull some of the thicker blade stuff and post pictures? Is it from runners or is it straight roots?


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## kalcormier (May 9, 2021)

As much as this hurts to say, I agree those blades look too thick to be Arden.

Here is a picture of Arden I planted on 5/8


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

kalcormier said:


> As much as this hurts to say, I agree those blades look too thick to be Arden.
> 
> Here is a picture of Arden I planted on 5/8


I am deeply saddened right now lol. I'm not sure where I went wrong and what to try differently. Almost 85% of the new growth I have had this past couple of weeks has been those thick blades, about 10% weeds, and 5% of the dark green thinner blades 

Does anyone have any idea what the thicker blades are?


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## kalcormier (May 9, 2021)

Looks like crabgrass. My plan is to try and stick it out for 30 days or so and see what happens. I agree with the cost of seed it is definitely stressful. In the meantime I got some starter pods going in the garage and will plug them into the yard once they are ready. This way I am certain it is the arden.

I wouldn't say all hope is lost yet. Just give it a little more time.

Edit: one of your pics above looks like baby bermuda. But was confused if what was in that pic is what you pulled up


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

kalcormier said:


> Looks like crabgrass. My plan is to try and stick it out for 30 days or so and see what happens. I agree with the cost of seed it is definitely stressful. In the meantime I got some starter pods going in the garage and will plug them into the yard once they are ready. This way I am certain it is the arden.
> 
> I wouldn't say all hope is lost yet. Just give it a little more time.
> 
> Edit: one of your pics above looks like baby bermuda. But was confused if what was in that pic is what you pulled up


That's definitely disappointing, but I'm still going to hope for the best. At this point I'm not sure what else to do other than wait. I'm definitely concerned about the lack of actual Arden germination. If the thicker blades are indeed crab grass, will that create problems for the Arden to germinate because of competing roots?

I'll probably throw down a light application of starter fertilizer because I have noticed some of the smaller blades are purple and most likely lacking phosphorus. I wish that I would've started off with a test plot to get a good feel for what it's supposed to look like. I sincerely wish you the best of luck on your lawn and I hope it turns out great!

Also which picture are you referring to that looks like baby Bermuda? The sprout that I pulled up and took a picture of was from the thick blades that were bunched together.

My dogs also just managed to kick up a chunk of the thinner blades and I feel like this is the Arden 15. Here is some pictures of it:


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## Jacobpaschall (Nov 1, 2020)

LucidLawns said:


> kalcormier said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like crabgrass. My plan is to try and stick it out for 30 days or so and see what happens. I agree with the cost of seed it is definitely stressful. In the meantime I got some starter pods going in the garage and will plug them into the yard once they are ready. This way I am certain it is the arden.
> ...


That is 100% your Arden in that picture. Anything that doesn't look like that, is not Arden. I also recently planted about 5k sq ft of Arden15. Mine is doing pretty good for 1 month old. I'd be happy to share tips if you're interested in any.


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## kalcormier (May 9, 2021)

If you scroll all the way to the top, the 4th picture down is the one I was referring to.

And I agree with @Jacobpaschall the last pic is definitely Arden 15!!


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

Jacobpaschall said:


> LucidLawns said:
> 
> 
> > kalcormier said:
> ...


It figures my dogs kick up one of the few patches of Arden that germinated lol. That's awesome news to hear your yard is doing well! And any tips you could share would be great! I would like to ask though, what is the cut off time for germination? Is it possible that only a small portion has germinated so far and more will be sprouting soon? I'm currently on day 13 and it's not looking very promising. I have about 85% of the yard covered in that thick bladed stuff (Still not 100% sure it's crab grass).


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

kalcormier said:


> If you scroll all the way to the top, the 4th picture down is the one I was referring to.
> 
> And I agree with @Jacobpaschall the last pic is definitely Arden 15!!


I definitely think you're both right on that! Although I'm still not 100% convinced the other stuff is crab grass. Either way if the thick stuff isn't Arden, I really hope it doesn't restrict the grass from coming in the way it should.


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## Jacobpaschall (Nov 1, 2020)

LucidLawns said:


> Jacobpaschall said:
> 
> 
> > LucidLawns said:
> ...


I'm not sure what the cutoff time would be. I saw my 1st germination at 7 days. That's about as quick as it gets from what I've heard. It really started popping out after about 10-12 days. I've found in the several lawns I've seeded that covering the seed with some kind of mulch is probably the biggest difference. I also put put about 75# of starter fertilizer on my 5k sq ft. I put another 50# about 20 days in. I was watering 5-8 minutes per station 4x/day. You want to keep it damp at all times without pooling.


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## rjw0283 (May 11, 2020)

I've had good results seeding areas with a thin layer of peat moss on top. It keeps the seeds moist. You don't need much.


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

Yeah my original plan was to buy peat moss and a peat moss spreader to cover the entire back yard. The only problem was the cost to do it. I had already spent quite a bit on the seed and various tools that I didn't have yet, so I opted for the cheaper option of using straw. I really wish I would've just sucked it up and bought it, because if this seed doesn't take, it would've been cheaper than buying more Arden 15…

However, I am not losing hope! I feel as though there is still a chance this yard will take off and I'm just over thinking it.


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## kalcormier (May 9, 2021)

@LucidLawns what is your watering schedule? Have you put down any fert yet?


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

kalcormier said:


> @LucidLawns what is your watering schedule? Have you put down any fert yet?


My watering schedule is 4 times a day for 20 minutes and sometimes I'll throw in another cycle if it seems like it's drying out. We have a very sandy soil so it's really hard to keep it damp with these high temps we've been getting. I also threw down a 16-4-8 fertilizer at the time of seeding.


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## kalcormier (May 9, 2021)

@LucidLawns How's it coming?


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

@kalcormier It's actually going a lot better than I thought it was going to. The Arden is really starting to take off and I'm hoping soon it will start growing some runners to fill in the bare spots. Granted there is still a crazy amount of weeds that have come in. The herbicides have arrived but I'm nervous to throw it down this soon. I'll throw together some pictures real quick.


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

Day 22 Update:

Not quite as far along with the lawn as I would like to be, but things are looking a bit better. Despite the incessant weed pressure and my dogs digging a huge hole in the center of the yard, I'm still feeling optimistic lol. I filled in the hole with some topsoil, reseeded, and top dressed it. I also threw down some 18-24-12 starter fertilizer to help with the phosphorus deficiency and it seemed to do the trick. The Quinclorac and Sedge Hammer arrived in the mail this past week, but I think I'm going to wait it out just a bit longer before spraying the lawn with it. I'm about to start spoon feeding .25 lbs nitrogen per 1000 every 7 days in hopes that this will help spread the grass into the bare areas.

The rain this past week was non stop and it definitely flooded some parts of the yard causing the growth to be a bit behind areas that didn't flood. I really want to mow the grass and I feel like it's tall enough now that it needs it. However I'm very worried about the weight of my mower tearing up the ground. Do you guys think I should wait for the roots to be more established? Also would it be better to spray herbicides, wait for the weeds to die, and then mow? Or would it be better to mow the yard as it is now, weeds and all, wait a couple of days, and then spray herbicides? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## kalcormier (May 9, 2021)

I have no idea when we should start mowing. I think I will give mine a couple more weeks. I also think you would want to spray 1st then mow. Logic being more leaf area for herbicide. I could be wrong though.


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

@kalcormier Thats what I was thinking as well. I'm worried that the grass won't fill in because of the weed pressure. I think I'll probably end up spraying this weekend.


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

Day 26:

Well it has now been 2 days since I applied Quinclorac 75 DF and Sedgehammer. All of the weeds are starting to get a yellowish tint to them, so fingers crossed they all die off! I am most likely going to have to do a second application. I'll probably do that at the 14 day mark.

The instructions say that you can start mowing 2 days after application as long as you leave the clippings. And quite frankly I've been chomping at the bit to do the first mow. I'm thinking I'll give it till Tuesday and then I'm going at it!

In other news, I just purchased my first reel mower from another fellow lawn forum user. Huge shout out to sd3 for hooking me up with a good deal on his Swardman Edwin 2.0. It has a 6 blade reel that needs serviced, a verticutter cartridge, and a grooved front roller. I have ordered a 10 blade reel, smooth front roller, and a Kawasaki engine service kit from reel rollers, and I plan on sending in the 6 blade for servicing. The mower is set to arrive on Monday, and everything else is arriving on Tuesday. I can't wait to start mowing reel low!

Would it be bad to scalp the lawn down to my desired HOC with it being such a newly established turf? What I would like to do is go as low as my rotary will allow me, and follow that up with the Swardman at a 3/4" cut. I love mowing the lawn so I would really like to eventually get that down to anywhere from 1/4" to 1/2" HOC. I'm just nervous about going too low so soon and the undulations in my yard. I also plan on top dressing next season to help with that. Any and all suggestions are appreciated!

Here is a picture of the smooth crabgrass after only 2 days:



Edit:

Here are some more pictures!









So there wasn't decent germination in the areas where the crabgrass was really dense. I'm guessing that's probably due to there being too much competition in the root zone from the weeds. It's unfortunate, but hopefully this Bermuda starts spreading like crazy when I get all of these weeds out of here!


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## Herring (Sep 19, 2020)

LucidLawns said:


> Day 26:
> 
> Well it has now been 2 days since I applied Quinclorac 75 DF and Sedgehammer. All of the weeds are starting to get a yellowish tint to them, so fingers crossed they all die off! I am most likely going to have to do a second application. I'll probably do that at the 14 day mark.
> 
> ...


Congrats on the Swardman! I think you'll be okay establishing that low height and maintaining it, depending on any major bumps and dips. Some parts of mine were over 2", I mowed at 7/8" and hope that will help with spreading laterally.


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

@Herring Thanks! I'm super stoked to use it  And yeah I think I'll end up being okay with scalping it down. Definitely hoping for some lateral growth because I really don't want to lay down more seed.

I just checked out your lawn journal and your yard is coming along great! Excited to see the future progress


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## kalcormier (May 9, 2021)

@LucidLawns Congrats on the new reel mower!


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

@kalcormier Thanks! I got a feeling reel mowing is going to be a new favorite hobby of mine :lol:


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## kalcormier (May 9, 2021)

I've been on the lookout for one as well, hopefully I can find a deal.


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## LucidLawns (May 24, 2021)

@kalcormier I hope you find one man! The deals are out there but sometimes it takes awhile for a good one to come around. It was definitely discouraging at first.


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