# Color is off



## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

Hey

Most of my lawn seems to have woken up. No crazy growth but the color seems to be coming in. I do have a decent patch of lawn that remains brown. Any ideas

Haven't fertilized at all this yr only thing I put down was Pre M.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Post a picture and maybe we could help.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)




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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

What was your fertilizer schedule like last fall?


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

Late in the fall I applied starter fert when I overseeded. Before that I probably did 3-4 apps of Milo at 3/4-1lb per K every 4-5 weeks. Lawn appeared very healthy last summer and fall before going into dormancy.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)




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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

These are some pics from last summer. My lawn and house was renovated about 3-4 yrs ago and some large trees were removed.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

I'm in the Wash DC area....is it too early to start fertilizing?


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## rockinmylawn (Mar 25, 2018)

Catlettsl said:


> I'm in the Wash DC area....is it too early to start fertilizing?


No. 
As long as the grass is growing & you do it before end of May in the mid-atlantic region aka transition zone - you'll be alright.
But the only way to salvage this year spring & summer & to confirm what ever deficiency you have - you'll need a soil test ASAP.

My lawn was green during the growing season - beautiful & regimen were somewhat like your last year south of you in the Richmond area 
I didn't do a soil test - kind of guess at it. Maybe read too much about disease problems that had never appeared before so I underfed the lawn most likely.
Didn't do as much as you with Milo - only 2 drops (May & Sept). 
Did have a drop of 10-10-10 in April & 46-0-0 in December.

Flip the switch to this spring & I have the similar issues as you: with some areas still sleeping & yellowish while lagging vs. neighbors.

This was last week:









vs. last July:


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I see a slight hill/slope in the section that is more brown. Which way does the sun hit that area? Could it be on shadow most of the time? Also, the slope might make the fertilizer rundown in a heavy downpour.

I would wait for the lawn to wake up naturally than pushing it with nitrogen.


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## rockinmylawn (Mar 25, 2018)

g-man said:


> I see a slight hill/slope in the section that is more brown. Which way does the sun hit that area? Could it be on shadow most of the time? Also, the slope might make the fertilizer rundown in a heavy downpour.
> 
> I would wait for the lawn to wake up naturally than pushing it with nitrogen.


Interesting - My house is graded with house on a crown & lawn flowing down & away to move the water.
Some of my yellow areas are at the perimeter of my lawn - some on the top of the slope & some at the bottom.


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

It's possible it's many factors but the end result just being that those areas still haven't woken up fully yet. Thinks like sunlight, water, etc can have an effect on spring greenup. If it lasts long term then you really need to investigate but I'd just start working on normal good lawn habits - mowing/fertilizing/watering and it should pick up from there.


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

Catlettsl said:


> I'm in the Wash DC area....is it too early to start fertilizing?


I'd say you can apply it. Was there last weekend and saw crab germinating everywhere.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

Just read the Fall Nitrogen Blitz. So I'm guessing I clearly under fertilized and def did not winterize hence the slow green up. Gonna get a soil test and drop 3/4lb per K of Milo and that should kick start things.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

If you wanna give it a jump start and boost the color .25lbs N from Urea or Ammonium Sulfate with some chelated iron would do the trick. Milo's slow and relies a lot on microbial breakdown which is low in cooler soil temps


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## kevreh (Apr 3, 2018)

Catlettsl said:


> Just read the Fall Nitrogen Blitz. So I'm guessing I clearly under fertilized and def did not winterize hence the slow green up. Gonna get a soil test and drop 3/4lb per K of Milo and that should kick start things.


Hey Catlettsl, I'm in Annandale, Va, right by you (not sure if your in MD or VA). Close enough....
4lbs of Milo is only ~/25 lbs of N. Not much at all and as has been mentioned Mile is slow acting with these cooler temps. Won't have much of an effect. I dropped a 1/2 lb of N a few weeks ago thats a mix of fast and slow acting Urea. Will drop another 1/2 lb in late April then thats likely it for Urea. Milo will continue to go down monthly. If you don't have a good all around N source with Urea check out a lawn supply company like Site One. Or something like Vigoro Super Green (with Iron) from Home Depot.

I think that area is just taking its time coming out of dormancy. My front yard looks like that brownish area and back like your green area. Since it looked good last year I think you can eliminate localized issues. I'd say give it a couple weeks, but who knows with these hi/low temps.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

kevreh said:


> Catlettsl said:
> 
> 
> > Just read the Fall Nitrogen Blitz. So I'm guessing I clearly under fertilized and def did not winterize hence the slow green up. Gonna get a soil test and drop 3/4lb per K of Milo and that should kick start things.
> ...


Thanks Kevreh. In this Mid Atlantic area it can be tricky year to year. Some years it feels like spring in early February some years we are still getting mid 40's in April. I really want to go by the feel of the season and what my lawn is telling me. Looking at it today I have some areas that wants to grow and some that are lagging behind.

I think you're right with a good 1/2 rate of N from a starter fert in the next week or 2 then ride it out with Milo.


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## kevreh (Apr 3, 2018)

Yep, 100 different ways to approach this. I think you meant "1/2 lb of N", not "rate"? Rate is subjective to the product you use.

This year I'm hitting my TTTF yard a little harder with the N in the spring so I can get it thickened up *and growing taller*. I mention height because I tend to mow at about 3" but want to bring that up to at least 4" to surpress weeds better (especially clover).

Of course I'll be using fungicide preventatively starting in early June and am using a Humic and Fulvic mix to help prep the soil/roots for heat stress come july.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

Makes sense. I mow at 4 plus inches. I'm also irrigated which helps root stress in the high temps.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

kevreh said:


> Yep, 100 different ways to approach this. I think you meant "1/2 lb of N", not "rate"? Rate is subjective to the product you use.
> 
> This year I'm hitting my TTTF yard a little harder with the N in the spring so I can get it thickened up *and growing taller*. I mention height because I tend to mow at about 3" but want to bring that up to at least 4" to surpress weeds better (especially clover).
> 
> Of course I'll be using fungicide preventatively starting in early June and am using a Humic and Fulvic mix to help prep the soil/roots for heat stress come july.


You see the area is expecting 5-6 inches of snow on Saturday? Craziness!


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## kevreh (Apr 3, 2018)

Hmmm, just looked that up. Apparently there's some over inflated numbers being pumped out by weather apps; https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2018/04/04/flake-news-please-disregard-snow-total-forecasts-on-your-weather-apps/?utm_term=.a9f8a8d50880


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

Quick update:

Things are starting to improve a little. Gave her a cut and threw down some starter fert 18/24/12 at .45lb N. Haven't seen much growth but temps have been up and down.

Expecting 60-76 degree weather for a few days. Gonna wait 3 weeks before I start with the Milo.


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## kevreh (Apr 3, 2018)

I think these wild temp swings have made the lawns neurotic. That's pretty much what my yard looks like. Mostly green, some growth. I do have a couple neighbors who have much thicker, greener lawns. I assume its due to their N schedule from last fall (more aggressive than mine). I overlooked the winter application, think my last drop was early Nov.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

kevreh said:


> I think these wild temp swings have made the lawns neurotic. That's pretty much what my yard looks like. Mostly green, some growth. I do have a couple neighbors who have much thicker, greener lawns. I assume its due to their N schedule from last fall (more aggressive than mine). I overlooked the winter application, think my last drop was early Nov.


Same here. No Fall N Blitz. I asked my neighbor who uses a lawn service if he's had any apps and he stated that his company has already applied some N. Based upon the looks of his I'm assuming .75-1lb N. I'm not stressing; I'm irrigated and he isn't. Come June and July I'll be lush and he'll be struggling to hold on. Lol


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Catlettsl said:


> No Fall N Blitz.


Definitely try the Fall N Blitz this year. My lawn has stayed 2-3 shades darker than my neighbors. :thumbup:


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## kevreh (Apr 3, 2018)

Eric, how much N did you drop and when in the fall? Just curious.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

kevreh said:


> Eric, how much N did you drop and when in the fall? Just curious.


I did weekly apps of Urea (46-0-0) starting in September, I got 5 apps in, @1 lb/1000. Then a winterizer app of Urea @2 lbs/1000 when top growth stopped (December for me).


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## kevreh (Apr 3, 2018)

What!? 5 apps of 1 lb each, so 5 lbs there, then 2 more in December, for a total of 7lbs? Amazing.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

@kevreh I don't think that is how it works. I am not good at calculating the total N. lol. @g-man , can you help?


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Found an NPK Calculator online, Urea = .47lbs of N per 1 lb. x 5 apps = 2.35 lbs of N + .93 (2 lbs) = *3.28* lbs of N.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Urea is 46% nitrogen by weight. So the amount on Urea Eirc used will be multipled by 0.46 to get the pound of nitrogen he used.

5 x 1lb of Urea/M * 0.46 = 2.3lb of Nitrogen/M
2lb of Urea/M *0.46 = 0.92lb of Nitrogen/M
Total Fall = 3.22lb of N/M

I applied 4.64lb of N/M last fall. I did used Milo, alfalfa pellets early in the fall.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

Wow! How much N did you drop last year in your yard?

What's you fert schedule and amount each app?



ericgautier said:


> kevreh said:
> 
> 
> > Eric, how much N did you drop and when in the fall? Just curious.
> ...


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

Why alfalfa pellets? What does that do?



g-man said:


> Urea is 46% nitrogen by weight. So the amount on Urea Eirc used will be multipled by 0.46 to get the pound of nitrogen he used.
> 
> 5 x 1lb of Urea/M * 0.46 = 2.3lb of Nitrogen/M
> 2lb of Urea/M *0.46 = 0.92lb of Nitrogen/M
> ...


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Alfalfa is an good organic source of nutirents. It is around 2.5-1-2.

It also has Triacontanol that promotes growth/spreading.


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## kevreh (Apr 3, 2018)

ericgautier said:


> @kevreh I don't think that is how it works. I am not good at calculating the total N. lol. @g-man , can you help?


Ahh, ok I see. When you said 1 lb I thought you meant 1 lb of N, not 1 lb of fert. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

Hey g-man I've seen a lot of stuff that says 2-3lbs of N a year is enough. But with a fall blitz of 3lbs N in addition to the 2-3lbs N during the spring summer...is that overkill? No root damage? Just how much N can the lawn handle?



g-man said:


> Urea is 46% nitrogen by weight. So the amount on Urea Eirc used will be multipled by 0.46 to get the pound of nitrogen he used.
> 
> 5 x 1lb of Urea/M * 0.46 = 2.3lb of Nitrogen/M
> 2lb of Urea/M *0.46 = 0.92lb of Nitrogen/M
> ...


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Catlettsl said:


> Wow! How much N did you drop last year in your yard?
> 
> What's you fert schedule and amount each app?


Last year was following a reno year so I fed the lawn real good. I'll share my notes:

7-May	OceanGro 5-5-0 (5 bags)
21-May	OceanGro 5-5-0 (5 bags)
11-Jun	OceanGro 5-5-0 (5 bags)
18-Jun	Urea 46-0-0 @1lb/M
23-Jun	Urea 46-0-0 @1lb/M
25-Jun	OceanGro 5-5-0 (3 bags)
24-Aug	OceanGro 5-5-0 (2 bags)
2-Sep	Urea 46-0-0 @1lb/M
10-Sep	Urea 46-0-0 @1lb/M
16-Sep	Urea 46-0-0 @1lb/M
21-Sep	OceanGro 5-5-0 (5 bags)
1-Oct	Urea 46-0-0 @1lb/M
6-Oct	OceanGro 5-5-0 (5 bags)
17-Oct	Urea 46-0-0 @1lb/M
9-Dec	Urea 46-0-0 @2lb/m

:twisted:

I am taking it easy this year. :lol:


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Catlettsl said:


> Hey g-man I've seen a lot of stuff that says 2-3lbs of N a year is enough. But with a fall blitz of 3lbs N in addition to the 2-3lbs N during the spring summer...is that overkill? No root damage? Just how much N can the lawn handle?


This article from Purdue Fertilizing Established Cool Season Lawns has a recomendation of 3-5lbN/M/yr. I've done calulations for my weather based on growth potential and it places me at ~5.5lb/M/yr.

I only apply nitrogen when the conditions are good (no drought) and the lawn needs it. So far this year, I might apply something in May. I also tend to use organic sources that feed more slowly. I dont have root damage.

I also know that using organics you could really push the amount of nitrogen really high (above 10lbN/M/yr). But there is a law of diminishing returns. More feed = more mowing = more water needs = more consumption of P and K too. So it becomes an overkill.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

Thanks. So my question is if I'm irritated and use organics primarily can I still push N during the hotter months? I did last year usually at a rate of .75lbs to 1lb every 4 weeks or so. My thought pattern was since I adopted the lawn June 1st I was trying to get it healthy which it responded well. Did I just get lucky or am I thinking accurately. With what you just said I definitely will be a little more aggressive with my N moving forward.

Can an irrigated lawn be ferted more with the assumption that it won't struggle drought issues?

Thx



g-man said:


> Catlettsl said:
> 
> 
> > Hey g-man I've seen a lot of stuff that says 2-3lbs of N a year is enough. But with a fall blitz of 3lbs N in addition to the 2-3lbs N during the spring summer...is that overkill? No root damage? Just how much N can the lawn handle?
> ...


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

ericgautier said:


> Catlettsl said:
> 
> 
> > Wow! How much N did you drop last year in your yard?
> ...


That's a lot of N.  Is that all the fertilizer you applied last year or did you add in any synthetic P and K as well? I'm trying to get a better idea of what my fertilizer schedule should look like this year as I'm coming off a reno last year.


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## kevreh (Apr 3, 2018)

Catlettsl said:


> Thanks. So my question is if I'm irritated and use organics primarily can I still push N during the hotter months? I did last year usually at a rate of .75lbs to 1lb every 4 weeks or so. My thought pattern was since I adopted the lawn June 1st I was trying to get it healthy which it responded well. Did I just get lucky or am I thinking accurately. With what you just said I definitely will be a little more aggressive with my N moving forward.
> 
> Can an irrigated lawn be ferted more with the assumption that it won't struggle drought issues?
> 
> Thx


When you applied N during June/July/Aug did your lawn get stressed? Did you keep it watered consistently (1" or so weekly)?

Can an irrigated lawn be ferted more with the assumption that it won't struggle drought issues? YES This is pretty much what golf courses do. Consistant feeding *and irrigation*. But if it was me I wouldn't drop more than a .5lb of N at a time and to play it safe only drop organic N Memorial to Labor day. But with enough watering maybe a half pound of N of synthetic June/July/August is do-able.

FWIW, Pete from the youtube channel GCI Turf Services has a video (What is a Lawn Care program?) where he talks about how he keeps his TTTF lawn green all summer in NC. His point is to have a balance of using humics/fulvics, mowing the right height (not short!), proper lawn nutrition including PH/Micros/N, and mechanical aeration and overseeding. He's had good success and he's in NC. !


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## kevreh (Apr 3, 2018)

ericgautier said:


> Catlettsl said:
> 
> 
> > Wow! How much N did you drop last year in your yard?
> ...


Thanks for posting that Eric. How many lb's of N is each one of those Oceangro applications? Can't figure out the N without know their bag weight.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

kevreh said:


> Thanks for posting that Eric. How many lb's of N is each one of those Oceangro applications? Can't figure out the N without know their bag weight.


Each bag is 45 lbs and covers 3000 sq ft.


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## chrismar (May 25, 2017)

kevreh said:


> Thanks for posting that Eric. How many lb's of N is each one of those Oceangro applications? Can't figure out the N without know their bag weight.


OG bags are 45 pounds.

@ericgautier perhaps I'm paranoid, but personally, I'd be a little cautious posting exact apps in one spot like that. Probably not a big deal, but as you know NJ has some pretty strict fert laws. You're not supposed to be applying any fert after 11/15 and no more than 3.2 lb/M nitrogen per calendar year.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> That's a lot of N.  Is that all the fertilizer you applied last year or did you add in any synthetic P and K as well? I'm trying to get a better idea of what my fertilizer schedule should look like this year as I'm coming off a reno last year.


Other things I applied are:
- Mag-I-Cal @9lbs/M (April, September)
- SOP 0-0-50 @2lbs/M (May, June, September)

That's pretty much it.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

chrismar said:


> @ericgautier perhaps I'm paranoid, but personally, I'd be a little cautious posting exact apps in one spot like that. Probably not a big deal, but as you know NJ has some pretty strict fert laws. You're not supposed to be applying any fert after 11/15 and no more than 3.2 lb/M nitrogen per calendar year.


True. Don't think I'll be anywhere close to that this year. Keeping it low key this season.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

ericgautier said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> > That's a lot of N.  Is that all the fertilizer you applied last year or did you add in any synthetic P and K as well? I'm trying to get a better idea of what my fertilizer schedule should look like this year as I'm coming off a reno last year.
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

This guy in my neighborhood is kicking my tail right now. He uses a lawn service and he said they have already done a fert app. Makes me not want to wait any longer.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

Catlettsl said:


> This guy in my neighborhood is kicking my tail right now. He uses a lawn service and he said they have already done a fert app. Makes me not want to wait any longer.


Just be patient, I'm betting his yard won't look that good in a few months!


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

Why don't you think it won't look as nice in a few months? Just curious...



Turfguy93 said:


> Catlettsl said:
> 
> 
> > This guy in my neighborhood is kicking my tail right now. He uses a lawn service and he said they have already done a fert app. Makes me not want to wait any longer.
> ...


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

Catlettsl said:


> Why don't you think it won't look as nice in a few months? Just curious...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well since you said he uses a lawn service I bet they juiced his yard up with nitrogen when they put pre emergent down. Once the heat hits it will probably be hit with brown patch and suffer from drought stress and depleted carbs. All depending on a number of factors with what else the the lawn company treats for and his mowing and watering practices


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## thytuff1 (Feb 13, 2018)

@ericgautier Wow... in all my years as a professional turfgrass manager with several grow-in projects under my belt I never felt the need to over do it in terms of fertilization. According to my simple addition skills it looks to me like you applied easily over 10lbs of N per 1000ft2 (most likely considerably more). We are definetly in the luxury consumption stage of turfgrass nutrient uptake. At a certain point the grass plant will get no more benefit from the added nitrogen and the putting that much nitrogen out into the environment is not necessarily the best thing. Usually 6-8 lbs of N in a grow in situation is plenty... and 2-4 lbs N in an established lawn is adequate.

I don't mean to step on anyone's toes or ruffle any feathers, and hopefully you can save some more money or spend it on other things.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

@thytuff1 I might have overdone it a tad. :lol: Definitely saving my $$ this year. I need reel mower.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

Found a pic of the landscape before it was renovated. As you guys can see my battle areas are were 2 large trees used to sit.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

These are some of my troubled areas. I have a light like green grass growing. It's almost the color of Poa T but I don't think it's Poa.

Then I have this brownish colored grass. I think it's Zoysia but not sure.

Can anyone ID these grass types and ow to rid them from my Fescue.

Thanks


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

@g-man @ericgautier can either one of you help with the last couple of questions. Have a lime greeny grass growing in my yard but its not in small clumps like ive typically seen Poa T

Also is that brownish grass Zoysia?

Thanks in advance


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

@Catlettsl man.. I am bad at id'ing stuff. Keep an eye on the brown stuff and see if it greens up when the weather warms up. If it does, then it could be zoysia.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

That looks like dormant nimblewill


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

Just an update. Most of the grass is growing vigorous and thick but I still have this patch that doesn't want to grow or thicken up.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

@ericgautier any help with this brownish patch pictured above ☝🏾


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

@Catlettsl same brown spots you mentioned before? Did it green up at all compared to what you posted before? I think it might be different type of grass.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

Take a look at the last 2 pics on page 3. There is a small section of my lawn that is still struggling to green up and grow. I posted a pic of the section of the lawn next to it to show how the rest of the lawn is growing. I know its not brown patch, its way to early for grubs and this section struggled coming out of dormancy.



ericgautier said:


> @Catlettsl same brown spots you mentioned before? Did it green up at all compared to what you posted before? I think it might be different type of grass.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

@ericgautier Take a look at the last 2 pics on page 3. There is a small section of my lawn that is still struggling to green up and grow. I posted a pic of the section of the lawn next to it to show how the rest of the lawn is growing. I know its not brown patch, its way to early for grubs and this section struggled coming out of dormancy.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Next time you fertilize, sprinkler a little bit more in that area that is struggling and see if it catches up to the rest of the lawn. My best guess, different type of cultivar that is behind the rest.


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## Catlettsl (Aug 24, 2017)

ericgautier said:


> Next time you fertilize, sprinkler a little bit more in that area that is struggling and see if it catches up to the rest of the lawn. My best guess, different type of cultivar that is behind the rest.


@ericgautier still hasn't caught up to the rest of the lawn. Been busy and haven't had a soil test.


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