# What do you use to verticut



## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

What do you use to verticut and how often do you do it?


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## jimbeckel (May 27, 2018)

I use my verticutter attachment for my Allett mower and will probably use it 2-3 this season


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

I made some fixed blades for my Bluebird power rake PR18



Edit: I use it a few times a year


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

jimbeckel said:


> I use my verticutter attachment for my Allett mower and will probably use it 2-3 this season


can you post a pic please?


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

I use a Graden with these DynaBlades.

I verticut once very severely in the spring before green up. Then, another verticut in summer not nearly as severe per the direction of one of our members.


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## jimbeckel (May 27, 2018)

Austinite said:


> jimbeckel said:
> 
> 
> > I use my verticutter attachment for my Allett mower and will probably use it 2-3 this season
> ...



Allett verticutter


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## gpbrown60 (Apr 7, 2018)

TulsaFan said:


> I use a Graden with these DynaBlades.
> 
> I verticut once very severely in the spring before green up. Then, another verticut in summer not nearly as severe per the direction of one of our members.


I would expect that those blades do one heck of a job!


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

jimbeckel said:


> Austinite said:
> 
> 
> > jimbeckel said:
> ...


Wow. That looks awesome. Everyone got the verticutter right except for Swardman! I may have to make my own.


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## lvlikeyv (Jan 26, 2019)

Would verticutting help pull out dead weeds?

First year of serious lawn care. I put down some prodiamine and Celsius. I have a good bit of dead/dying weeds that the mower is not picking up.

What is a good POA for this?

I'm guessing its not too late to verticut if I wanted to go that route?


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## Kicker (Apr 5, 2018)

J_nick said:


> I made some fixed blades for my Bluebird power rake PR18
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I use it a few times a year


do you have a parts list and/or instructions? It looks like it's just flat bar steel, some threaded rods, nuts, and spacers. Anything i'm missing?


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

@Kicker you got the gist of it, here's a little info on it. If you have anymore questions don't hesitate to ask

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1826


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

I just got my de-thatcher accessory for my Baroness. So, I am going to use this throughout the year as well. It goes in place of my groomer with longer and thicker blades spaced further apart. No idea how many times???



Edited (5/21/19) The length of the blades and groomer are the same. The thickness differs.


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

Anybody have any luck with the electric Joe dethatcher/scarifier?


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## driver_7 (Jun 28, 2018)

Durso81 said:


> Anybody have any luck with the electric Joe dethatcher/scarifier?


Yeah, I used mine this spring during green-up. I liked it a lot. It brought up a ton of material and cut through the stolons nicely. No complaints here. Should have waited 2 more days, went on sale for $40 less than I paid.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

Austinite said:


> Everyone got the verticutter right except for Swardman!


How is the Swardman vericutter wrong?


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

hsvtoolfool said:


> Austinite said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone got the verticutter right except for Swardman!
> ...


It's not a verticutter. It doesn't cut runners. The blades are too far apart and they are very thick, not blades at all really. It's more a dethatcther / tiller.


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## Groundskeeper Willie (Feb 22, 2019)

I have nothing for verticutting and it breaks my heart. The Sunjoe, which I have, may be an ok dethatcher on dormant grass but it's no verticutter. I've been thinking about a crude substitute verticutter for a very small zoysia lawn. (Like 500 ft^2) Just a 20in wide board with rows of utility blades fixed to it. 9 or 10 rows of blades spaced about 2" apart. Maybe 10 blades end to end making up each row. The blades would be epoxied into a groove. Lathing strips could be placed between rows to control the depth to which the blades would penetrate the turf. Place board sharp side down on turf. Step on it. Pick it up put it back down again, advancing in a line. Obviously this would be useless for dredging up subsurface thatch like most verticut machines will do, but it would cut stolons without ripping them up and out.


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## southernguy311 (Mar 17, 2017)

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=152&p=2113&hilit=Sisis#p2054

Follow this link to an older post of mine. Still have an use the Sisis unit. Use is 4-5X a year on my Bermuda areas, 2-3X on my Paspalum.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

@J_nick Would you say that verticutting helps with uneveness at all? If cross-hatched would it have any smoothing effect once it settles in after rainfall?


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

cglarsen said:


> @J_nick Would you say that verticutting helps with uneveness at all? If cross-hatched would it have any smoothing effect once it settles in after rainfall?


Over time yes. My lawn is fairly smooth though. I do have one spot the verticutter use to catch traction and tear up really bad. It keeps getting a little better each time I do it. I've never used it aggressively trying to smooth an area out though.


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## Passat774 (Oct 9, 2018)

Anyone using the Bosch AVR 1100?

Looking for a easy to use unit for my 5k yard, newly sodded


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

Passat774 said:


> Anyone using the Bosch AVR 1100?
> 
> Looking for a easy to use unit for my 5k yard, newly sodded


looks like a UK machine. have you see it available in the US?


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## Passat774 (Oct 9, 2018)

I saw it on eBay with but would probably need a plug adapter.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

Austinite said:


> It's not a verticutter. It doesn't cut runners. The blades are too far apart and they are very thick, not blades at all really. It's more a dethatcther / tiller.


Actually, look at the dimensions...

Homemade Bluebird: 18 cutters across 18" (spaced about 1")

Graden AIRROW: 15 cutters across 15" (spaced about 1")

Allett: 13 cutters across 17" (spaced about 1.4")

Swardman: 12 cutters across 22" (spaced about 1.75")

So we're only talking about 3/4" spread from the most narrow to the widest spacing. I can attest that my Electra 55 with the verticutter cartridge did a fine job both cutting runners and slicing the thatch. I used two passes at 90° with the v-cut and then the scarifier cartridge. After two passes with the v-cutter, I suspect 1" spacing vs 1.75" spacing makes little difference.

As for the cutter thickness, only the Allett appears to be thinner than the Bluebird, Graden, and Swardman examples above. Finally, I don't see how calling something a "blade" because it looks like a circular saw makes any difference. You can either spin slowly using a many-pointed cutter or very fast using a two-point cutter. I suspect the Bluebird and the Electra both spin relatively fast compared to the Graden or Allett. So long as it cuts a shallow groove in the thatch layer, it's good. Right?

Granted, I'm a newb and my lawn is very rough (mostly dead 18" stolons). I certainly do not understand or appreciate the finer points of grooming putting greens. Perhaps the node spacing of a well-groomed bermuda lawn is best sliced at a 1" spacing. All I really care about is getting dense growth and roots that helps to choke out weeds. Maybe I'll get there someday.


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## markjegan (Apr 28, 2019)

I bought the Joe last year and have used it at least four times. I have about 10,000 ft of Zorro Zoysia. I have used both the scarcifier and dethatcher with excellent results every time. For $100.00, you simply can't go wrong.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

hsvtoolfool said:


> Austinite said:
> 
> 
> > It's not a verticutter. It doesn't cut runners. The blades are too far apart and they are very thick, not blades at all really. It's more a dethatcther / tiller.
> ...


Actually, it doesnt matter the distance with respect to my comment. It's the "blade" itself that is a problem for me. And we call it a blade because that's what the manufacturer calls it. Unfortunately, Its not designed to CUT and we are calling it a vertiCUTTER. It does nothing that a slice seeder or the allet would do. It's a tiller. Just a very poor design and should not be marketed as a verticutter.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

Austinite said:


> Actually, it doesnt matter the distance with respect to my comment.


I only mentioned the spacing and the definition of the term "blade" because you said: _"The blades are too far apart and they are very thick, not blades at all really."_

I can't find thickness specs for the above examples. Most of them appear to be about 1/8" (about 3mm) thick. The Allett looks thinnest by far, maybe 1/16" (1.5mm) thick. The thickest look like J_nick's homemade cutters for his Bluebird power rake. Do you think the thick, square steel bars "cut" as a verti-cutter should? From his photos, it looks like it cuts the thatch layer rather than "till" the soil. Do you agree?



Austinite said:


> It does nothing that a slice seeder or the allet would do.


I watched your video using the Edwin 2.0 with the verti-cutter. It looks like you did a good job verti-cutting to me. When I used my Electra 55 in Beast Mode, it certainly sliced the stolons and turf. Since this was a Spring scalp, I deliberately set the cut a little on the deep side to open up the soil. It didn't "till" the soil, but it did bring up dirt and lots of thatch. I didn't think anything about it at the time, except I liked the results. Of course, I won't cut as deep when I do it again later this year.

I also followed your discussion with @TheTurfTamer and @N LA Hacker about the amount of dirt brought to the surface. I suspect that's your main complaint since you used the term "tiller". I can understand how the "forward rake" of the Swardman blades will bring up some thatch and soil while slicing. However, I've seen commercial verti-cutters on golf courses, and they leave behind quite a mess. They also have "rake" to the blades (like the Graden AIRROW above) and bring up significant dirt and thatch....

https://1stproducts.com/vc60-verti-cutter/

Maybe the verti-cutters used on putting greens are more refined than what's used on fairways. I think I'll keep mine like it is. I'm not even in the fairway yet, much less on the putting green. Perhaps later I'll buy another verti-cutter cartride to modify and perform mad scientist-like experiments with. For now, my lawn isn't in good enough condition to matter. But it's improving quickly.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

@Austinite , I just watched your video with the Edwin verti-cutter wrapping the long runners around the shaft. Does the Edwin have a fast spin gearing just for Rejuvination mode like the Electra? When I first tried my Electra verti-cutter, I used normal mode and got the exact same results; long stolons wrapped around the shaft. But when I figured out Beast Mode, the difference was night-and-day. When spinning the blades fast, it sliced the runners and thatch really well.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

hsvtoolfool said:


> @Austinite , I just watched your video with the Edwin verti-cutter wrapping the long runners around the shaft. Does the Edwin have a fast spin gearing just for Rejuvination mode like the Electra? When I first tried my Electra verti-cutter, I used normal mode and got the exact same results; long stolons wrapped around the shaft. But when I figured out Beast Mode, the difference was night-and-day. When spinning the blades fast, it sliced the runners and thatch really well.


The Electra can be controlled with respect to the spin, the edwin cannot. That is very interesting. Maybe I will try a section with my Electra and see if it cuts them. Thanks for the feedback!


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

You're welcome. Beast Mode rules! Works great with both the verti-cutter and scarifier. I didn't use the catch bin while verti-cutting. Instead, I came back with the scarifier and threw all the runners and thatch into the bin and bagged it up. I tried to leave behind the topsoil.

While scalping my back yard, I also experimented with Beast Mode to take a heavy 1" cut without bogging. I set the reel to spin very freely to reduce wear and noise. I obviously wasn't worred about a super-clean slice. It worked really well. I wouldn't use the reel in Beast Mode all the time, and never for a sub 1" HOC due to the risk of rocks, but for a one-time heavy cut it works great.


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

Go a hold of verticutters reels for my 3100d that work like a charm!!


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

MrMeaner said:


> Go a hold of verticutters reels for my 3100d that work like a charm!!


Nice ride.


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## smurg (May 30, 2018)

I'm kind of mad at myself for buying the greenworks dethatcher before I knew about the Sun Joe dethatcher/verticutter.

I'll give a shot at seeing what I could do in order to make a verticut cartridge for it. If that fails, maybe just sell the greenworks and buy a Sun Joe. I see myself verticutting (monthly?) a lot more often than dethatching (once/twice a season) and my yard sure could use it with a lot of grass laying down with long runners. Sun Joe includes a bag as well which the greenworks doesn't. I jimmy-rigged a manual reel grass catcher behind my greenworks with bungy cords, but it's not a pleasant sight.

If I could find a used gas verticutter, even better, but the transition-zone market is quite bare on quality used _reel low_ equipment.


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

Durso81 said:


> MrMeaner said:
> 
> 
> > Go a hold of verticutters reels for my 3100d that work like a charm!!
> ...


Thank you Durso81!! After all the problems with my other triplex, one that starts, runs and cuts exceptional its not such a chore to mow any longer. I think the verti-cutting i did this year is taking the turf over the top this year.


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## nt5000 (Jun 13, 2018)

Groundskeeper Willie said:


> I have nothing for verticutting and it breaks my heart. The Sunjoe, which I have, may be an ok dethatcher on dormant grass but it's no verticutter. I've been thinking about a crude substitute verticutter for a very small zoysia lawn. (Like 500 ft^2) Just a 20in wide board with rows of utility blades fixed to it. 9 or 10 rows of blades spaced about 2" apart. Maybe 10 blades end to end making up each row. The blades would be epoxied into a groove. Lathing strips could be placed between rows to control the depth to which the blades would penetrate the turf. Place board sharp side down on turf. Step on it. Pick it up put it back down again, advancing in a line. Obviously this would be useless for dredging up subsurface thatch like most verticut machines will do, but it would cut stolons without ripping them up and out.


@Groundskeeper Willie Have you tried anything like this yet? I am thinking of maybe sharpening my thatch rake, or doing something like you described but more like a sled that I can weight down and pull around. Hmmm...


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

@hsvtoolfool just catching up with this thread. My blades are 1/8" thick. It's more of a slice seeder than verticutter. The blades spin extremely fast and does a better job than I thought it would. I set it around 1/8" into the ground.


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## Bermuda_Newbie (Jun 15, 2018)

smurg said:


> I see myself verticutting (monthly?) a lot more often than dethatching (once/twice a season) and my yard sure could use it with a lot of grass laying down with long runners.


Could you explain what the difference is between verticutting and dethatching? I thought they were the same thing. The Swardman has what they call a scarifier which just adds another word in there and I'm not sure what does what.


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## smurg (May 30, 2018)

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> smurg said:
> 
> 
> > I see myself verticutting (monthly?) a lot more often than dethatching (once/twice a season) and my yard sure could use it with a lot of grass laying down with long runners.
> ...


The Swardman scarifier cartridge is considered a dethatcher by every other product I've seen. The main purpose from my understanding is to to catch onto thatch and pull it to the surface. It may pull up runners or rhizomes if deep enough, but since the tines aren't sharp, it will mostly just pull them to the surface and won't cut them.

Verticutting does help remove and break up thatch and the main mechanism is by cutting. From what I've gathered, full coverage with Bermuda by runners propagating isn't the most desired state. Verticutting will help cut runners and allow them to grow vertically on their individual nodes. When each node is separated they'll begin to branch out more aggressively as an individual plant and you can get even quicker coverage. Verticutting also reduces grain and can relieve compaction (same with a dethatcher I believe).


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## Bermuda_Newbie (Jun 15, 2018)

smurg said:


> Bermuda_Newbie said:
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> 
> > smurg said:
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Thank you! I'm a little nervous about spending so much money on verticutter cartridge for the swardman with the mixed reviews I'm seeing but if it does work, I think that will be a huge asset to my lawn. Thanks for the clarification.


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## smurg (May 30, 2018)

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> smurg said:
> 
> 
> > Bermuda_Newbie said:
> ...


I posted in the other thread my experience with my Sun Joe which appears to be similar to the Swardman cartridge. May not be that similar but visually they closely match. My Sun Joe did more dethatching and less cutting since the blades aren't sharpened to a point and don't seem to be setup to primarily cut. You'll notice the Swardman cartridge does look different than every commercial verticutter I've seen. Generally the blades are thinner, sharp, and closer spacing.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

smurg said:


> I posted in the other thread my experience with my Sun Joe which appears to be similar to the Swardman cartridge. May not be that similar but visually they closely match. My Sun Joe did more dethatching and less cutting since the blades aren't sharpened to a point and don't seem to be setup to primarily cut. You'll notice the Swardman cartridge does look different than every commercial verticutter I've seen. Generally the blades are thinner, sharp, and closer spacing.


I wish I could find someone to sharpen my Swardman Verticutter. I tried taking it apart and was going to replace the blades with Saw blades. But the bearings are machine pressed so there's no putting it back together for me. Really eager to make that thing work, it wasn't cheap and just collects dust right now.


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## nt5000 (Jun 13, 2018)

I did a test line manually with the thatch rake and then mowed it off. We'll see what it looks like in the morning 🤣


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## Jimefam (Jun 22, 2018)

Austinite said:


> smurg said:
> 
> 
> > I posted in the other thread my experience with my Sun Joe which appears to be similar to the Swardman cartridge. May not be that similar but visually they closely match. My Sun Joe did more dethatching and less cutting since the blades aren't sharpened to a point and don't seem to be setup to primarily cut. You'll notice the Swardman cartridge does look different than every commercial verticutter I've seen. Generally the blades are thinner, sharp, and closer spacing.
> ...


Could you not use something like a die grinder to put a little edge on the blades?


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Austinite said:


> smurg said:
> 
> 
> > I posted in the other thread my experience with my Sun Joe which appears to be similar to the Swardman cartridge. May not be that similar but visually they closely match. My Sun Joe did more dethatching and less cutting since the blades aren't sharpened to a point and don't seem to be setup to primarily cut. You'll notice the Swardman cartridge does look different than every commercial verticutter I've seen. Generally the blades are thinner, sharp, and closer spacing.
> ...


I have the swardman as well and while it will pull up long runners that aren't tacked down mine cuts pretty well and thins things out. I think it just depends on your height of cut and the depth that you are running the verticutter at. Also if you have only run it once, you may see improvements with verticut 2 and 3 in a growing season based on turf density. I haven't looked at how the verticutter is assembled, but if you can remove the blades, just flip them upside down so the "hook" is facing away from the turf while its spinning so it acts more like a flail and won't pull. I'll take a look at the assembly when I have a chance.


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## Groundskeeper Willie (Feb 22, 2019)

nt5000 said:


> Groundskeeper Willie said:
> 
> 
> > I have nothing for verticutting and it breaks my heart. The Sunjoe, which I have, may be an ok dethatcher on dormant grass but it's no verticutter. I've been thinking about a crude substitute verticutter for a very small zoysia lawn. (Like 500 ft^2) Just a 20in wide board with rows of utility blades fixed to it. 9 or 10 rows of blades spaced about 2" apart. Maybe 10 blades end to end making up each row. The blades would be epoxied into a groove. Lathing strips could be placed between rows to control the depth to which the blades would penetrate the turf. Place board sharp side down on turf. Step on it. Pick it up put it back down again, advancing in a line. Obviously this would be useless for dredging up subsurface thatch like most verticut machines will do, but it would cut stolons without ripping them up and out.
> ...


No I haven't tried it. My fabrication skills and experience are pretty lame. I'm also pretty weak on follow-through. I did use the thatching rake on the zoysia a little and then mowed it down from 1" to 3/4" to get all the grass that was growing laterally and getting out of sync with the nominal hoc. Not sure that was such a great idea. That may have been too much abuse in too little time. Also I manually test raked a little on the bermuda, and didn't like it. I have a feel for using it on zoysia. On the bermuda it just feels wrong. After that I tried a small test patch with the Sunjoe on the bermuda. It turned up what I was afraid of - lots of runners waving like tentacles in the air. Last year I tried the same experiment at a higher level of cut and saw the same kind of thing but worse. I just need a real verticutting solution there. The board with utility blades idea might work OK on the postage stamp zoysia lawn, but the bermuda lawn is too big for that. Dragging it as you suggested like a sled could work for a larger area, but in this case I also really need to break up and lift out thatch. I'm convinced that lawn is choking on its own thatch layers above and below ground. I've had to raise the height to 1" to hide the old brown stubble that I can't get rid of. 

Should have used the Sunjoe on it back in March. Significant improvements may have to wait until next year.


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## smurg (May 30, 2018)

Jimefam said:


> Austinite said:
> 
> 
> > smurg said:
> ...


Angle grinder with a flap disk would be easier to control.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

You cannot flip the blades, they are not removable without damaging the shaft and bearings.


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## nt5000 (Jun 13, 2018)

Groundskeeper Willie said:


> No I haven't tried it. My fabrication skills and experience are pretty lame. I'm also pretty weak on follow-through. I did use the thatching rake on the zoysia a little and then mowed it down from 1" to 3/4" to get all the grass that was growing laterally and getting out of sync with the nominal hoc. Not sure that was such a great idea. That may have been too much abuse in too little time. Also I manually test raked a little on the bermuda, and didn't like it. I have a feel for using it on zoysia. On the bermuda it just feels wrong. After that I tried a small test patch with the Sunjoe on the bermuda. It turned up what I was afraid of - lots of runners waving like tentacles in the air. Last year I tried the same experiment at a higher level of cut and saw the same kind of thing but worse. I just need a real verticutting solution there. The board with utility blades idea might work OK on the postage stamp zoysia lawn, but the bermuda lawn is too big for that. Dragging it as you suggested like a sled could work for a larger area, but in this case I also really need to break up and lift out thatch. I'm convinced that lawn is choking on its own thatch layers above and below ground. I've had to raise the height to 1" to hide the old brown stubble that I can't get rid of.
> Should have used the Sunjoe on it back in March. Significant improvements may have to wait until next year.


@Groundskeeper Willie I hear ya. Last year I was too aggressive with the thatch rake and ripped too much up. It eventually recovered but it took a while. I think actual cutting would definitely be better.

If it's as thick and thatchy as you're describing, maybe taking the Bermuda down to the *dirt* would help to get rid of all that mess? A good old fashioned scalp. It won't take long to grow back as long as the plant is still there below the dirt. Try it in a test spot with a string trimmer  I've done it and was surprised.

Adding *sand* is another trick to consider... Bury some of that brown stubble.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Austinite said:


> You cannot flip the blades, they are not removable without damaging the shaft and bearings.


Interesting. So the end of the reel with the gear drive is fused on? I thought I noticed set screws and assumed it could be removed and dissembled. I've got the tools to pressfit the bearings and remove them so I might risk it and try just to see.


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## hiloran (Sep 22, 2021)

I bought cheap old petrol driven German scarifier. Its heavy made and OK. Collector would be nice. Stainless steel "start" shape blades are made in local workshop with laser cutter. Blades are hold by spring force. If you hit the high spot they will slip instead of bending. Blades costs very little compared to some available in EU.


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## bgrass (Jun 1, 2018)

Classen TR-20 from Home Depot used Rentals.
Took the turf rake out and bought the verticuting attachment.


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## LittleBearBermuda (Sep 25, 2020)

bgrass said:


> Classen TR-20 from Home Depot used Rentals.
> Took the turf rake out and bought the verticuting attachment.


Very nice! Did you happen to see it for sale in the rental department? I keep looking at their on line used equipment page but it doesn't seem to change much.


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## rvczoysia (Jul 18, 2021)

I've only used the sunjoe...I'm sure it's nothing compared to other pieces of equipment, but it sure does do a good job on my zeon zoysia. Zeon is some thick dense stuff, so it says a lot about the sunjoe.


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