# Reno Mindset



## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

To the individuals that have done Reno's of their lawns, how to you guys mentally prepare for it? How do you prepare for
The potential failure or hiccups that can happen along the way? I'm going to renovate a portion of my back yard(+/- 1500 sq ft), which is nothing compared to majority of the Reno's out there. I'm going to do this next fall and spot renovate certain parts of the lawn as well. I'll be renovating because of Poa Triv
and bentgrass invasion. I was walking through the portion that I'll be renovating next and said to my self " holy shyt, this is a big kill" and felt a little overwhelmed.

This is the portion of the land that's going to get killed off next year. As you can see, it's in the shade, poor draining, constantly wet. Perfect environment for that awful Poa.

I certainly give credit to those that take the dive and kill off a big portion of not all of their lawns to start over. Its definitely to be a big mental hump to get over and push through it.


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## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

I did my first reno this fall, also because of poa triv, no irrigation installed. I did a 2000sf section on the side and partial back yard. I am glad I did not go larger or do the front yard until I have a couple reno's under my belt. I want to see my results, re-evaluate my seed choices and adjust from there. I figured if I did screw it up, I could always try to improve it later and it would still be better than the poa.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

That's a good thought. I'd be terrified about going full bore on the first try. I've been reading through a lot of people renovations. One thing that scares me the most that none of use can control is MOTHER NATURE. I'm glad that I didn't renovate this year. We got nailed with storm after storm.

But your right, I'm not sure what's worse, looking at Poa patches in a nice established lawn or bare dirt. It's something that I can't stop focusing on with my lawn, until I can get it under control. Poa is awful. Total eye to the enth degree.

Do you have a thread on your Reno? I would definitely like to see your progress and what you had to deal with.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

My first reno was 8k. My backyard was fenced in, so, if I screwed it up.. at least only a few neighbors can see. :lol: Honestly, once you get the basics down, a reno is not that bad. :bandit:










Day 65 or something... TTTF/KBG mix









2 years later, I did my front/side yards.


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## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

No, it was not worthy of a thread or journal. While I had debated doing the reno, I decided it was too expensive for this year until I found 20# bags of TTTF seed on clearance at Walmart for $9. I picked up two bags of that and 6# of KBG from a local sod farm and seeded both. It is admittedly thin but I expect it to fill in next spring.

The other thing I did was to take an underused area in my lower back yard (approx 1500sf) and I made two test plots side-by-side, one roundup and bare dirt, the other power raked and overseeded. I figured that way if I have unforeseen issues with my reno I can rent a sod cutter and cut my own sod that matches the rest of my lawn. If I do rent the sod cutter, I will also use it to remove patches of poa in the front yard and replace that with the test area sod.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

To me the 2 most important thing. 1) plan and plan and plan. See how pete1313 planned his. 2) a lot of luck is involved in a kbg Reno. Be read to roll with the punches and adjust to what mother nature throws at you (downpours, drought, fungus).


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

g-man said:


> To me the 2 most important thing. 1) plan and plan and plan. See how pete1313 planned his. 2) a lot of luck is involved in a kbg Reno. Be read to roll with the punches and adjust to what mother nature throws at you (downpours, drought, fungus).


One thing I like to do is be prepared. I'll usually purchase things in small spirts after doing research until I have everything I need. I'm definitely prepared for both drought and fungus. I'm got strobe, propricanizol and eagle 20 on the shelf ready to go. As far as drought is concerned, I'm also very fortunate to have an irrigation system. The down pours are obviously something that can't be controlled. I have already purchased EZ straw since it was on sale for next year. The majority of the equipment and chemicals are already on hand. The only thing that I haven't purchased because Bob Hogan brought up a good point, is the seed, he mentioned to wait until next spring to start looking into buying seed, since there may be other seed cultivators out there to choose from.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Miggity said:


> No, it was not worthy of a thread or journal. While I had debated doing the reno, I decided it was too expensive for this year until I found 20# bags of TTTF seed on clearance at Walmart for $9. I picked up two bags of that and 6# of KBG from a local sod farm and seeded both. It is admittedly thin but I expect it to fill in next spring.
> 
> The other thing I did was to take an underused area in my lower back yard (approx 1500sf) and I made two test plots side-by-side, one roundup and bare dirt, the other power raked and overseeded. I figured that way if I have unforeseen issues with my reno I can rent a sod cutter and cut my own sod that matches the rest of my lawn. If I do rent the sod cutter, I will also use it to remove patches of poa in the front yard and replace that with the test area sod.


The idea of having a sodding plot is great.
I wish I had a spot that I could use for that. The only problem I have is that my entire lawn front and back is out in the open.

The sod cutting of the Poa is a great idea. I only worry about the stolens not being taken away completely. Sod cutting would sure cut down on the kill/Reno time


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

ericgautier said:


> My first reno was 8k. My backyard was fenced in, so, if I screwed it up.. at least only a few neighbors can see. :lol: Honestly, once you get the basics down, a reno is not that bad. :bandit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lawn looks beautiful man! Excellent outcome. Do you have a journal thread?


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Just go for it.. no second guessing....


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> Lawn looks beautiful man! Excellent outcome. Do you have a journal thread?


Thanks! Yes - https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=218


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

You can do it! If it doesn't go well, you'll be able to fix, patch, redo anything that you aren't happy with. It's just grass, and once you know how to grow grass, you'll be able to grow it again, and again... and again. My first "reno" was a complete failure this past spring, and then this fall went much better. Here is the core of what I took away from the 2 experiences

- Make sure your watering is on point. This is the easiest way to kill a reno. Too little, or uneven water coverage will mean a patchy, thin lawn. Plan to splurge on hoses, sprinklers, timers, whatever it takes to keep the water flowing.
- Plan to start early enough that you can shrug off a major setback like a washout, disease, poor germination.
- Buy a bunch of extra seed as a reserve bank if things go awry. It's much much easier to throw down more seed that you already have than to decide to shell out again. If you don't use it, then you'll find something else to seed next year.
- Choose an area that you can afford to have an off-season on the next year if it doesn't go great.

Oh and keep a lawn journal of the process!


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Thanks guys all great points!


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

samjonester said:


> You can do it! If it doesn't go well, you'll be able to fix, patch, redo anything that you aren't happy with. It's just grass, and once you know how to grow grass, you'll be able to grow it again, and again... and again. My first "reno" was a complete failure this past spring, and then this fall went much better. Here is the core of what I took away from the 2 experiences
> 
> - Make sure your watering is on point. This is the easiest way to kill a reno. Too little, or uneven water coverage will mean a patchy, thin lawn. Plan to splurge on hoses, sprinklers, timers, whatever it takes to keep the water flowing.
> - Plan to start early enough that you can shrug off a major setback like a washout, disease, poor germination.
> ...


I can see that you used hogan for your seed?


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

I sure did! It was great buying from them, and I've been very happy so far. The germination was great, and the lawn already looks fantastic. I didn't hand select my cultivars but asked for a blend that would put up with a hot, dry, unirrigated weather in July and August, and also deal with warm, humid, wet springs and falls. I'm not sure if the blend was custom chosen or just their "standard hogan blend", but I've got a couple of well-proven cultivars, as well as a couple newer cultivars with good NTEP results. I will buy from them again.

Why do you ask?


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## KHARPS (Jun 21, 2018)

You'll feel a sense of relief once the glyphosate goes down.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

I think the grass type you pick directly impacts your mind set going into your reno. If your doing any other grass type than KBG the room for error is greater. The faster it germinates the easier IMO. Of course all the prep work is the same. Having to keep your KBG watered 4 times a day for a month so it doesnt dry out in the heat of August, worrying about every thunderstorm or heavy rains from washout. Then you get to the sprout and pout where it germinates grows to like an inch and stays there for a while. Its kinda emotional. Go read my journal and see the ups and downs I was going through lol.
All my other renos have been easy in comparison.


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

you guys are too emotional.

If it dies, you can keep throwing seed at it until it works. From my last house... having the seed you need to match what you have alredy growing at all times is the key here.


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

are you sure that area is only 1500 sq ft? It looks much bigger than that.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

For me, mental prep work is all about learning as much as possible and then planning. You need to know exactly what you are going to do. If you can also understand why you are doing what you are doing, that can help when you run into sticky situations.
Writing down all of the steps in as much detail as possible (including rates) will make go-time much easier. And make a timetable. But also realize that you are likely underestimating how long tasks will take and that you are likely to encounter unexpected problems along the way (e.g., equipment failure, uncooperative weather, a sudden state of uncertainty).

There is also wisdom in knowing when to be satisfied. The best laid plans designed to yield the best outcomes can fall short for one reason or another. It is important to learn how to recognize success rather than perfection.

If you are doing a 10k+ renovation, I can't really think of anything that can prepare you for the amount of work. It is a serious job if you are running solo. But it is also one of the best experiences that you can have, IMO. Have pain reliever like tylenol easily accessible.

Have a detailed lawn journal of your efforts. Ask questions when you run into problems. I used TLF like life support last year. A reno will expose the holes in your understanding (everyone has deficiencies). It is nice to have access to a community of people who have done multiple renos.

IMO, any time that you put so much planning and effort into something, it is emotional. Heck, just killing off your lawn is emotional. If you have a weed salad, then it is liberating. If you are killing off mixed turf so that you can do an elite mono, then you will question your sanity. 
And when you are out there for hours and hours multiple days carrying out a plan that you've designed over several months, it is awesome. And you are transforming your lawn with a few tools, a lot of knowledge, and a lot of work. There is something very powerful about starting fresh. Maybe it is just living out a day you've been dreaming about, or maybe it relates to the generative aspect of growing plants. I don't know. But I do know that seed down day is a very powerful day.

And just when you conclude that the hard work of seeding is done, you learn that waiting and watering is the hardest part.

But it is absolutely worth it in the end.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

social port said:


> For me, mental prep work is all about learning as much as possible and then planning. You need to know exactly what you are going to do. If you can also understand why you are doing what you are doing, that can help when you run into sticky situations.
> Writing down all of the steps in as much detail as possible (including rates) will make go-time much easier. And make a timetable. But also realize that you are likely underestimating how long tasks will take and that you are likely to encounter unexpected problems along the way (e.g., equipment failure, uncooperative weather, a sudden state of uncertainty).
> 
> There is also wisdom in knowing when to be satisfied. The best laid plans designed to yield the best outcomes can fall short for one reason or another. It is important to learn how to recognize success rather than perfection.
> ...


Great words! ^^

The winter before can be a tough time when you are planning to reno the next year. You will be itching to get started, and my advice is get done what you can as soon as the weather breaks in the spring. It is rewarding when you are counting down the days to glyphosate and then counting down until seed down knowing everything you wanted to complete is done beforehand. Things might come up that you had not planned for(they did for me) and you dont want to be rushing to get things done at the last minute.


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## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

@samjonester's comments are on point. All great things to keep in mind.

For me (and this is going to sound cliche), knowledge is power. Reading up on this forum or other lawn sites and articles, watching YouTube videos, etc. was really helpful. Knowing the basics (seed, fert, water) is one thing, but learning _what_ to do, _when_ to do it, _how_ to do it, and most importantly _why_ you do it were critical. Understanding the _why_ part develops those critical thinking skills that helps you build an intuition of sorts so you can deal with new or unexpected problems on the fly. I want to know as much as possible about a topic and feel like an expert (at least compared to the average joe) before I actually pull the trigger.


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## Rucraz2 (Apr 8, 2018)

I am in the same boat. I moved into my place a year ago. The nomix isn't bad from the road, but up close there's issues. My lot is a bit bigger than Petes and his journal is basically foreseeing my future. I have irrigation. But it needs some tweeking. My biggest hurdle is time, money and the wife. I did a partial reno on our last place that turned out fine. But she did not like the dead grass patches. And everyone kept asking her about it while she basically just shook her head. Ive tried to explain it to her but she doesn't understand or shes too damn stubborn. She wants a nice lawn but without the work. Even if it's just me doing the work. Trust me this has been a strain on me and our marriage. But im praying someday when the stars align I can get it done. Meanwhile I am just reading and learning from others outcomes and mistakes.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

samjonester said:


> I sure did! It was great buying from them, and I've been very happy so far. The germination was great, and the lawn already looks fantastic. I didn't hand select my cultivars but asked for a blend that would put up with a hot, dry, unirrigated weather in July and August, and also deal with warm, humid, wet springs and falls. I'm not sure if the blend was custom chosen or just their "standard hogan blend", but I've got a couple of well-proven cultivars, as well as a couple newer cultivars with good NTEP results. I will buy from them again.
> 
> Why do you ask?


I'm actually going to buy from them as well. I've seen some great turf pics of Hogan's seed. I know that seed superstore is top notch but the price of seed compared to hogan is significant. I'm glad to see another great lawn from the hogan seed. Makes my decision easier for sure.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

KHARPS said:


> You'll feel a sense of relief once the glyphosate goes down.


I think you're right. I think it's the mindset of "well there's no turning back now, let's make this work. Let's give it hell"


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

JDgreen18 said:


> I think the grass type you pick directly impacts your mind set going into your reno. If your doing any other grass type than KBG the room for error is greater. The faster it germinates the easier IMO. Of course all the prep work is the same. Having to keep your KBG watered 4 times a day for a month so it doesnt dry out in the heat of August, worrying about every thunderstorm or heavy rains from washout. Then you get to the sprout and pout where it germinates grows to like an inch and stays there for a while. Its kinda emotional. Go read my journal and see the ups and downs I was going through lol.
> All my other renos have been easy in comparison.


Thanks for your insight. I'll definitely take a look. I'm not going to lie, I love KBG characteristics and color. There's really nothing like it. I'll probably go through the KBG "honeymoon" of ups and downs when the time comes next year.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

jessehurlburt said:


> are you sure that area is only 1500 sq ft? It looks much bigger than that.


That stretch up against that side of yard is about 1500 square feet. Now on the other hand, I'm going to torch all those patches as well so it will be more than that at the end of the day.

I'm not experienced enough to nuke the entire lawn (12k sq ft) or have the nads to do so(for
Now)

That particular spot is real shady in the spring and fall. It stays damp and doesn't have the best drainage. It's a spot that essentially don't ever have to water. The dew is more than enough to keep the soil moist. I've even though about doing that portion of the Reno in the spring, given the location of the Reno and circumstances. But I'm probably stick
To the fall game plan.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

social port said:


> For me, mental prep work is all about learning as much as possible and then planning. You need to know exactly what you are going to do. If you can also understand why you are doing what you are doing, that can help when you run into sticky situations.
> Writing down all of the steps in as much detail as possible (including rates) will make go-time much easier. And make a timetable. But also realize that you are likely underestimating how long tasks will take and that you are likely to encounter unexpected problems along the way (e.g., equipment failure, uncooperative weather, a sudden state of uncertainty).
> 
> There is also wisdom in knowing when to be satisfied. The best laid plans designed to yield the best outcomes can fall short for one reason or another. It is important to learn how to recognize success rather than perfection.
> ...


Very nicely put! I have to agree with you on using this forum as a tool. I happened to stumble upon it and I couldn't believe the wealth of knowledge, experience and help everyone shares with each other. It feels like everyone is on the same team working for the same goal. Reading through everyone's posts and lawn journals have given me ideas, methods and things to look out for. I appreciate your response.


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> jessehurlburt said:
> 
> 
> > are you sure that area is only 1500 sq ft? It looks much bigger than that.
> ...


I misread your post. I see the area you're talking about. Beautiful backyard, I'll be following you to see this happen. I like the game plan of a partial Reno


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

jessehurlburt said:


> Scagfreedom48z+ said:
> 
> 
> > jessehurlburt said:
> ...


Thank you. That pic was taken in the spring when the lawn was starting to wake up. I rest of the lawn is thick, healthy and great. I can't go down the road of a full Reno just yet. The sections of Poa is what's driving me mad.


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## silvercymbal (Sep 17, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> To the individuals that have done Reno's of their lawns, how to you guys mentally prepare for it? How do you prepare for
> The potential failure or hiccups that can happen along the way? I'm going to renovate a portion of my back yard(+/- 1500 sq ft), which is nothing compared to majority of the Reno's out there. I'm going to do this next fall and spot renovate certain parts of the lawn as well. I'll be renovating because of Poa Triv
> and bentgrass invasion. I was walking through the portion that I'll be renovating next and said to my self " holy shyt, this is a big kill" and felt a little overwhelmed.
> 
> ...


I was very nervous about my own lawn work this year. Certainly far from perfect but I am so happy with the results and planning a lot more next year. There are so many great people here that you will do great! If you have any problems you are close enough write me and I will bring consolation beer  You won't need it though I think it will be great.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

silvercymbal said:


> Scagfreedom48z+ said:
> 
> 
> > To the individuals that have done Reno's of their lawns, how to you guys mentally prepare for it? How do you prepare for
> ...


Thanks buddy!


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> samjonester said:
> 
> 
> > I sure did! It was great buying from them, and I've been very happy so far. The germination was great, and the lawn already looks fantastic. I didn't hand select my cultivars but asked for a blend that would put up with a hot, dry, unirrigated weather in July and August, and also deal with warm, humid, wet springs and falls. I'm not sure if the blend was custom chosen or just their "standard hogan blend", but I've got a couple of well-proven cultivars, as well as a couple newer cultivars with good NTEP results. I will buy from them again.
> ...


I'm sure you'll be happy! Most of their cultivars tend to be lower mow types. The KBG stuff looks like it's all compact, and even many of the TTTF cultivars are low mow. From my mix, rebounder TTTF recommends 1/2"-4" and firewall TTTF recommends 1/2"-3". LS 1200 (1.5-3"), and houndog 8 (unlisted) are the only 2 of the 8 cultivars in my mix that aren't bred for a lower height. Keep that in mind. If you'd like to mow it at 4+", you'll probably need to ask specifically about that or shop elsewhere.

I personally LOVE the quick establishment of the TTTF in my mix, and I'll likely mow around 2". The lawn really looked thick at around 4 weeks. This was 45 days after seed down, and it feels like it's been there forever. The kids certainly play on it like it has been! At 35-40 days it was able to handle slides, kiddy roller coasters, whatever they threw at it. I'm not sure a 100% KBG lawn would be able to withstand their daily traffic like this already. I'm not sure how old yours are, but I saw a playset in the first picture, so it might be something to keep in mind.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Great picture man! She seems like she enjoying herself. Yes mine are young as well (3&4). The turf looks very well establish. I typically mow 4" or less. I had it at 4" this year because the heat stress was getting out it hand. At the same time, I had to stay on top of my fungicide applications because of the height. I'm going to keep it between 3-3.5" next year.

In terms of the kids, I'm not sure the kbg only would be able to handle the traffic or a heavy zero turn mower, especially around the parameter. That's where I have to contstantly ride to get to one point to another. I'm really liking your mix though. I'm sure it stripes beautifully!


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

Here's what kbg looks life for a comparison 
Day 35


Day 42


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

@Budstl thanks for the comparison! You've got what looks like similar density at the same point.

How would you feel putting daily traffic on the lawn? My kids spend a few hours a day out back starting around day 30, pushing things around, dragging sticks, and stuff. I didn't grow a 100% KBG lawn, so my guess that KBG wouldn't do well as early is just that, a guess :lol:

Between the KBG and TTTF plants in my yard, there is a definite difference. Here are a couple of plants I pulled from the same spot. The left two plants are KBG, and the right two are TTTF. This was Day 39. The crowns are much thicker in the TTTF, and it's already tillering. They just look a lot "sturdier".


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> I'm really liking your mix though. I'm sure it stripes beautifully!


Thanks! If only I had a striping kit


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

@samjonester I think it could hold up to light traffic, but not near as well as tttf at such an early stage. Kbg takes forever to get going. My lawn doesn't take on hardly any traffic, so I'll never really be able to tell.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Budstl said:


> Here's what kbg looks life for a comparison
> Day 35
> 
> 
> Day 42


That has filled in dramatically given the short amount of time. That looks almost like a 60 day pic.


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

@Scagfreedom48z+ i took these today at day 55.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Honestly looking at everyone's lawn journals that include KBG in their seed cultivators, it's really difficult not to have ***. I know it's a painful germination process but man when it's starts to spread and fill in, it's beautiful!!


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## zenmower (Jul 22, 2018)

I'm getting back into the grass game after a few years and for me the biggest lesson has been don't take on more than necessary.

Sure, the nice yard looks good and rewarding for your hard work but perspective is needed. Take your time to sort things out beginning with drainage, soil, level yard, etc. Otherwise the money on seed, fertilizer, etc will just be wasted.

Looking at the pictures, is a full kill necessary? I had about fifty percent weeds and used a selective killer of roundup then seeds and went from there. Is it perfect? No, but it is going that way and I didn't lock the kids inside during the process.

My hobbies have included everything from building off-road vehicles, diesel trucks, metal work, etc. I'm now playing around with landscaping and BBQ smokers just for giggles.

Unless you are getting paid for this then enjoy the process and just being outside in the elements. You probably won't get everything right the first time and that's ok but when you do figure it out it will be enjoyable.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

zenmower said:


> I'm getting back into the grass game after a few years and for me the biggest lesson has been don't take on more than necessary.
> 
> Sure, the nice yard looks good and rewarding for your hard work but perspective is needed. Take your time to sort things out beginning with drainage, soil, level yard, etc. Otherwise the money on seed, fertilizer, etc will just be wasted.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response! To answer your question. Not it's not going to be a full kill. At this point I'm not comfortable doing that nor do I have the help/ manpower to do that. The spots that are shown are riddled with Poa Triv and bentgrass. It's an eye sore. Some people can get over it and move on but it's a big itch that I need to scratch. It's bothersome. This will be my first time doing a partial Reno. I'm actually starting to get my ducks in a row now.

Your right, am I looking to have it exactly perfect? No. I have to get over that becuase I'm a very type A personality with wanting things to be perfect. This is why I'm was intrigued how everyone mentally prepares for a Reno. There's certainly excitement about it but a great deal of nerves that go with it I'm sure.


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## zenmower (Jul 22, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> zenmower said:
> 
> 
> > I'm getting back into the grass game after a few years and for me the biggest lesson has been don't take on more than necessary.
> ...


My biggest difference came with figuring out irrigation so I could then get predictable.

This site here also helps me on planning for soil temps >>> http://www.greencastonline.com/tools/soil-temperature

Hell, I didn't even know what made a cool season grass vs others. As I learned more and browsing this site my confidence improved alot....that plus making a schedule in excel with the various notes to track stuff.

I'm a gym rat and we track our weights, diet, etc. very detailed and I brought that mentality to this hobby also. In the gym, your gains come through diet and rest. Grass seems similar in nutrition, stress, irrigation, temps, etc.

On the weeds, I used selective round up a couple times to kill the weeds and took me a few iterations to understand how the grass and weeds responded. Then after a couple iterations of seed and milorganite I chose scotts weed and seed with mesotrione which is tenacity in granular form. That really kept the weeds under control acting as a pre-emergent to hold off new weeds giving me time to get seeds growing.

What I screwed up was not getting a soil test first but this is just something for me to play with so I wasn't that serious as I played with different sprinkler options, seeds, etc. to get a feel for things.

Now, going into winter, I'm dialing back my water for the next few weeks to get the roots a bit deeper as they chase the water. In about another month I'll start lowering the HOC before the snow hits.

It is easy to get silly with $$$ on soil amendments but I'll try it this way first to see how it handles winter & spring.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

See. Just learned something new today. That soil temp website is perfect. For pre emergent application in the spring, fall and seeding.
Thanks for sharing!


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## Grassachusetts (Dec 5, 2018)

Planted KBG sept 18th and it never left sprout and pout. First frost was about 6 weeks later (Halloweenish) 50:50 Midnight/ Alene. I'll know for sure come spring time but curious whether anyone had experienced this and if they are going to die off or survive.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Hard to tell with too many variables (dry windy cold vs wet heavy snow). I would drop more seeds in late February to take advantage of dormant seeding.


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## Grassachusetts (Dec 5, 2018)

g-man said:


> Hard to tell with too many variables (dry windy cold vs wet heavy snow). I would drop more seeds in late February to take advantage of dormant seeding.


If I do that I need to put down a starter feet with weed prevention.

What's the most effective weed & starter fertilizer to use while seeding. Scott's starter with weed prevention is going to run 400+ for my acre and needs to be done twice. I know it will work but $800 is a hefty tag. Any other proven methods?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You don't need to use Scott's product. The cheapest option is Tenacity for $60. It will cover your acre twice at the 4oz/acre rate, but this is a liquid application. Do you have the equipment to treat your property with liquid applications?

Tenacity is the same active ingredient in the Scott product (mesotrione).


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## Grassachusetts (Dec 5, 2018)

g-man said:


> You don't need to use Scott's product. The cheapest option is Tenacity for $60. It will cover your acre twice at the 4oz/acre rate, but this is a liquid application. Do you have the equipment to treat your property with liquid applications?
> 
> Tenacity is the same active ingredient in the Scott product (mesotrione).


If I'm going to buy a blower/mister for my mosquito / tic control in the spring I should be able to use that?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

No. For an acre, a tank pump and sprayer system is the best option. Some are able to be mounted on a your tractor or pulled behind.


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Grassachusetts said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > You don't need to use Scott's product. The cheapest option is Tenacity for $60. It will cover your acre twice at the 4oz/acre rate, but this is a liquid application. Do you have the equipment to treat your property with liquid applications?
> ...


I would not do this. I would get the 20v Chapin Backpack sprayer and block off a Saturday.


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## Ldware9 (May 27, 2018)

So here it is December 30th. I did a Reno to my front and side yard mid September. Due to not really getting much of a fall I am actually surprised at how well the turf is doing. I killed everything off at the end of August, tilled up the yard and spread Wild horse Kentucky bluegrass. My yard is still a bright grass. My neighbors take pride in their yards and as of now their yards have all gone dormant. We all stopped watering our yards about the same time. My entire family was as surprised and happy as me to see how well the turf was doing.


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## Wolverine (Jan 17, 2018)

I will be prepping for a 16k Reno of KBG. It's a little nerving but I have the tools to pull it off.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Wolverine said:


> I will be prepping for a 16k Reno of KBG. It's a little nerving but I have the tools to pull it off.


I hear you. I'm in the same boat. I have all the tools and resources available to pull this off.
It's definitely nerving since Mother Nature is the biggest tool and it can't be controlled.

I'll be putting down TTTF and KBG on the majority of the Reno.

The shaded areas I'm still up in the air. I've read a few different opinions but I still haven't made up my mind.

I'm planning on buying from Hogan most likely so I'll be calling him to pick his brain.


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## Wolverine (Jan 17, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> Wolverine said:
> 
> 
> > I will be prepping for a 16k Reno of KBG. It's a little nerving but I have the tools to pull it off.
> ...


Chomping at the bit here. Winter can't be over soon enough. My plan is 3 apps of gly starting June 1, fallow in between, 20 yards of top dirt for leveling and seed bed, seed down August 1. Leaning towards Bewitched, Mazama, Award blend. I have Poa problems so may mix in 20% prg, not sure yet.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Wolverine I think you will like that blend. Check out Fusebox7 reno thread.


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## Wolverine (Jan 17, 2018)

g-man said:


> @Wolverine I think you will like that blend. Check out Fusebox7 reno thread.


G-man
I have read his thread and was surprised when I saw he has the same mix I am planning on using. Can't go wrong with Bewitched or Mazama and Award is recommended for Michigan. Thanks for the heads up.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

He has a great thread and a nice looking yard. It is a shame he is a spartan fan.


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## Wolverine (Jan 17, 2018)

g-man said:


> He has a great thread and a nice looking yard. It is a shame he is a spartan fan.


Lol......Go Blue!


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Just pulled the trigger and bought my seed from SSS for the Reno. I'm still licking my wounds on the price but I'd rather pay for quality than run into a headache with something inferior with potential Poa

Going with TTTF/KBG

KBG: 40% Mazama/30% BlueBank/30% Bewitched

TTTF: 
Shady Half of lawn : Rowdy,GTL, Valkyrie LS, Titanium 2 LS
Sunny half of lawn: Regenerate, 4th Millennium, Raptor III, Amity

I'm going to most likely go with a 80/20 spread of TTTF/KBG.

What do you guys think?


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Nice picks on your cultivars! I think you won't be disappointed. You have sunny, shady, traffic, drought tolerance, etc. covered. You probably know by now I love Bewitched and have recently purchased Mazama (which I have high hopes for).

Rowdy and Titanium 2 LS have great ratings in multiple categories.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Chris LI said:


> Nice picks on your cultivars! I think you won't be disappointed. You have sunny, shady, traffic, drought tolerance, etc. covered. You probably know by now I love Bewitched and have recently purchased Mazama (which I have high hopes for).
> 
> Rowdy and Titanium 2 LS have great ratings in multiple categories.


Thanks man. I think it might have been you that brought mazama to my attention.


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