# What's going on here?



## djdonnyd (Jun 2, 2019)

All of a sudden these spots appeared in my lawn a about a month ago. I've already treated for grubs, fungus, and other insects. I'm watering regularly and I even threw down some Carbon X about 30 days ago. Any input would be appreciated.


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## nocsious (May 14, 2018)

What type of fungicide did you put down? When did you apply? When did the brown spots start showing themselves. What was the weather like leading up to the brown patches?


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## djdonnyd (Jun 2, 2019)

Disease Ex and Bio Advance was put down(followed LCN bulletproof strategy) on May 24. We did have a hot stretch with temps in the 90's leading up to the application. I applied in the morning because the bio advance says not to apply in temps exceeding 85. It was about 80 that morning. The brown patches appeared 3 days afterward according to my lawn journal.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Can you update your profile with info with the closest large city? It helps with advise.

I searched LCN site for info on your fungicides, but I could not find it. What was the product and at what rate?

This looks like a fungus. Likely brown patch.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Agree with gman it looks like brown patch but would help to see close up's of the lesions on the grass blade. Scott's diseasex is azoxystrobin which is proven very effective on brown patch and should have prevented an outbreak like you show here. A possible explanation is that azoxystrobin is a systemic and not a contact so maybe the granular diseasex didn't have enough time (either wasn't watered in enough or just not enough time) to activate in the plant. What rate did you use? 4lb per thousand?


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## djdonnyd (Jun 2, 2019)

Yes I did use 4lbs per thousand. Will update pics with closeup of the grass blade when I get home. I hear about a curative rate all the time. How much different is the curative rate from preventative?


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

djdonnyd said:


> Yes I did use 4lbs per thousand. Will update pics with closeup of the grass blade when I get home. I hear about a curative rate all the time. How much different is the curative rate from preventative?


cure rate is 4lb and prevent is 2lb. Also, 4lb gives your 28 day residual protection vs 2lb at 14 days. I think most do 4lb because you need to rotate to a different chemistry after 3 consecutive apps and azoxystrobin is probably the strongest chemistry that is easily available to homeowners. In other words, ideally, you'd like to get through a full season only using azoxystrobin on a 28 day interval. However, would be curious to hear from anyone using a 14 day residual cycle, what they rotate to, and why they choose that.


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## djdonnyd (Jun 2, 2019)

tgreen said:


> djdonnyd said:
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> > Yes I did use 4lbs per thousand. Will update pics with closeup of the grass blade when I get home. I hear about a curative rate all the time. How much different is the curative rate from preventative?
> ...


So I got some images of the grass today and it has definitely gotten worse. Maybe I should do another round of the Disease Ex. Here's some closeups.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

djdonnyd said:


> tgreen said:
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> > djdonnyd said:
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Yes, that looks like brown patch to me. If you put down 4 lb per k then I would not apply again for at least 21 days (label says 28), it won't do any good. I noticed your neighbor across the street doesn't seem to have it as bad. If they have tall fescue I would have expected to see it there too. What about other lawns in your neighborhood? Do they look same as yours? If not, there may be something you're doing that is causing the brown patch that would be good to know. Maybe too much watering? Too much fertilizer, etc? The grub and insect stuff doesn't matter. I'm not familiar with carbonX but maybe somebody on this board is and could say if that could be the culprit. Any other fertilizers you put down this Spring?


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Not being a wise guy but just to make sure, you applied this product at a rate of 4lb/K, correct? This is the first time you've used this product, correct? Asking b/c it doesn't make sense to have an outbreak like this that is getting worse in the presence of azoxystrobin. Also, I noticed your previous app was on May 24, so yeah, if I were you, I'd come in again now with another 4 lb's.


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## djdonnyd (Jun 2, 2019)

It is the first time I have used the product. I'm sure we put down 4lbs per K.

I put down some sod in some bare spots earlier and am trying to keep it wet, so I could be guilty of throwing down a bit too much water(4x a week).

Some of the lawns in the neighborhood have a little brown Patch but nothing like what I'm dealing with.

As far as the Carbon X goes, it went down at 4lbs per K. So I doubt if that is the culprit. As of today, it's been 23 days since the last app. So I will drop another app this weekend and back off my watering to see if it helps.

Thanks for the input.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

What time of the day are you watering? Can you just hose water the sod and not the whole lawn?


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## djdonnyd (Jun 2, 2019)

Watering at 5am. Good suggestion on hose watering. Going to be starting that ASAP!


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

@djdonnyd Let us know what happens. Agree with gman on reducing the watering. There are other fungicides available that are not labeled for home lawns that could help but cost $$. Azoxystrobin is one of the strongest chemistries for brown patch, label or no. I know the pain of watching your entire lawn destroyed. Happened to me last fall with gray leaf spot. You're going to need to reseed this area in the Fall but would be good to get the disease under control.


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## Wlodyd (Aug 27, 2018)

I think you got your Fungicide down too late. You said patches started showing up a month before that post, so around mid-May? A week or two before you applied? That sounds late for Tennessee either way. With that, I'd think if you put down both Azoxy and PPZ (LCN strategy) then you should see it stop about 1 week (maybe 2) after that application and start recovering.

Keep up with some regular Fungicide apps, but if going to do it regularly, I'd get a 3rd mode of action in your rotation.


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## djdonnyd (Jun 2, 2019)

So eight days ago I threw down another round of DiseaseEx and got it watered in good at the curative rate. This week it's looking better. The bottom pic is from last week and the top is right after today's cut.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

djdonnyd said:


> So eight days ago I threw down another round of DiseaseEx and got it watered in good at the curative rate. This week it's looking better. The bottom pic is from last week and the top is right after today's cut.


Great news! Thanks for giving us the update. So much advice is given on these forums and very few come back to tell us what happened.

One thing to consider is if you are now on the third app of azoxystrobin is that you need to rotate on the next one or else risk resistance. Unfortunately, the options become limited. Brown patch typically subsides around August which coincides with the overseed window so you might be good. If you need advice on a rotation, let us know.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

You know... I wonder... I just got some Neem Oil for my flowers and vegetables. The label very prominently has instructions for brown patch and dollar spot.

Would you consider using this in conjunction with your more aggressive approach? Kind of like in between applications?

The label says it controls a bunch of other stuff like rust, too. It's a thought...

B


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## mowww (Jan 16, 2018)

BXMurphy said:


> You know... I wonder... I just got some Neem Oil for my flowers and vegetables. The label very prominently has instructions for brown patch and dollar spot.
> 
> Would you consider using this in conjunction with your more aggressive approach? Kind of like in between applications?
> 
> ...


What brand did you pick up? Bayer Advanced, Bonide, Southern Ag, and another couple I am forgetting are part of this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.moscowvillager.com/news/20190514/consumers-advised-to-discard-triple-action-neem-oil%3ftemplate=ampart


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

I went with Bonide.

I was looking for larger quantities to keep costs down. There are other options.

And then you go down a rabbit hole of trying to make sure you are getting cold-pressed and not an extract. Making sure it contains azadirachtin (whaaat?). All kinds of stuff that makes you hesitate and over-research.

Get the Bonide. You will be fine.

Apply now. Worry and research later.

Murph


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## mowww (Jan 16, 2018)

@BXMurphy I was linking because a number of neem oils are produced by one mfg and were recently found to be tainted with malathion and clorpyrifos among other things.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

BXMurphy said:


> You know... I wonder... I just got some Neem Oil for my flowers and vegetables. The label very prominently has instructions for brown patch and dollar spot.
> 
> Would you consider using this in conjunction with your more aggressive approach? Kind of like in between applications?
> 
> ...


I wouldn't. Azoxystrobin is the only homeowner-available chemistry that controls brown patch that is proven scientifically. Is there any scientific evidence for neem oil controlling BP? A lot of chemistries are labeled for brown patch but they don't work. Here's some good info on BP about halfway through the link below.

https://turfpath.missouri.edu/reports/2019/06_28_19/


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

tgreen said:


> I wouldn't. Azoxystrobin is the only homeowner-available chemistry that controls brown patch that is proven scientifically. Is there any scientific evidence for neem oil controlling BP? A lot of chemistries are labeled for brown patch but they don't work. Here's some good info on BP about halfway through the link below.
> 
> https://turfpath.missouri.edu/reports/2019/06_28_19/


Yeah... I know... and then you read on neem and see that it has been used for centuries going back to India and all sorts of lore...

Who knows?

Watch... Where I am in New England, the pilgrims used to bury dead fish to grow corn. Who am I to argue? If it works, it works...

These days, you can't bury enough fish to produce on a large scale. But we're talking a home lawn here. Get you some fish on up in there. Let it rain fish! 

Seriously... nail your basics. Don't water so much that you get fungus. Use appropriate chemicals to control serious outbreaks. And then circle back to sound cultural practices to keep yourself honest.

Work some neem in there. Lube it up. He's not hurting anything with it. The neem guess is as good any other guess that I see some writers throw around.

Murph


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

BXMurphy said:


> Work some neem in there. Lube it up. He's not hurting anything with it. The neem guess is as good any other guess that I see some writers throw around.
> 
> Murph


Can you post pictures of your lawn before and after neem oil and at what temperatures you apply it?

In the previous post it seems to indicate that you have not used it. This one recommends someone to use because it is "not hurting anything".

I would advice not to use neem oil when it is hot and sunny outside.


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## djdonnyd (Jun 2, 2019)

tgreen said:


> djdonnyd said:
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> > So eight days ago I threw down another round of DiseaseEx and got it watered in good at the curative rate. This week it's looking better. The bottom pic is from last week and the top is right after today's cut.
> ...


Will do. Thanks for the input. I think one more app and I will be on the road to recovery. Thinking of the Bayer Advanced.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

mowww said:


> @BXMurphy I was linking because a number of neem oils are produced by one mfg and were recently found to be tainted with malathion and clorpyrifos among other things.


Hmph... insecticides... I am not concerned. It might actually be good to kill a few bugs while you're at it...

You know... grass has to be one of the easiest things in the world to grow. Try growing some nice roses or a fine tomato. Shoot, for the past five years, I can't get pepper #1 out of my garden. Darn it! I keep trying, though. 

Neem is this year's prayer...

B


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

djdonnyd said:


> tgreen said:
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OK, the active ingredient in that Bayer product is propiconazole. If it doesn't work and you need something stronger next year, you could look at either Prostar


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

tgreen said:


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