# Trey's 2019 Reno



## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

After 3 summers/falls of planning to do a reno, thanks to a ton of help from a bunch of people here at TLF, I'm finally putting one of these up.

Quick Overview
-We moved into our new construction home 2 years ago. We have crap fill dirt with crap grass, Triv (I'd say the best looking part of the lawn), quack, k31, yellow sedge, and weeds. We have removed almost 2 yards of larger rocks from lawn, 8 cinder blocks, a 12' rusted pipe, a 17' tree, and a roughly 400lb rock (that my neighbor cleaned and buffed and added to his landscape). I wish I would have seen the screwdriver thread when I was removing all of those. Due to the removal of all the debris, the lawn is not close to being leveled. I'll admit, I could have done much better when adding soil to try and topdress after. 
I've been amending the soil with compost and the amendments needed from soil tests to get the soil to where it is now, good on all macros, CEC 7.7 from 3.4, and OM to 2.3% from 0.4%. Backyard and side yard is 6000 sq ft. and the front is 3600 sq ft. Grabbed 7 yards of leaf compost and 3 yards of screened 50/50 mix for both new garden and lawn. Compost pile is currently fallowing, but looking good.

My plan.
-Level the backyard (8" rise and falls).
-Get at least an inch of soil as the top layer instead of a layer of rocks in some areas.
-Get good seed down. Have 25lbs Hogan's Alley and May order SS1000 for back and side yard. Planning on going with all KBG, but due to both irrigation and issues regarding our storm water easement, I may switch to a 90/10 TTTF/KBG mix in the back. I will save the rest of the Hogan's for front yard reno next year and possibly try to overseed the front this year (I know, KBG overseed is likely to be a fail).
-Construct irrigation system. Approximately 400 sq ft of 1" PVC with 11 MP3500090s and 2 MP3000360s. I will be manually turning zones on to save some cash. I already ran new 1" to 3/4" PEX from supply line to outside 3/4" ball valve and installed a vacuum break as a double check valve was far to expensive for something I'm using for a month. With new pipe and break, I am able to get 11GPM, but will only use 9GPM to avoid velocity issues.
-Extend current garden beds on the east side an extra 2' to 6'. Create a new garden bed extending from current bed in front west side to back patio, around 400 sq ft.

Timeline-Past
-Watering as needed to promote growth.
-21May Sprayed Tenacity to highlight Triv
-27May -Sprayed as much Triv as I could find. 
-16July actual 1st round of Glypho. Planned app was 05July, but weather refused to cooperate.


Rain and wind have been crazy this year. Flash thunderstorm about 45min after I finished spraying. 




-20July Started raking and removing dead grass
-21July mowed part of the lawn that was dead down to 1.25". This took almost 4hrs for about 1800 sq ft. The mower bottomed out every step.
-23July Mowed rest of backyard to 1.75"
-24July 2nd round of Glypho

Timeline -Future
-27-30July Mow low and Rake. Keep watering everyday.
-05Aug Level, wet, drag, repeat.
-Once level, add in compost for backyard. 
-Downtime in lawn - Add in 2"compost and 1" dirt to new garden beds and turn ground. Cut new edges for extended gardens.
-Setup and test irrigation at least 1wk before seed down.
-10-11Aug Rake and rake and rake
-12Aug Seed Down. Using Soil moist seed coat, Tenacity, starter fert, and Milo. 
-Roll it all in and water.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Reserved


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Can't wait to see it turn brown and crispy!


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Spraying 2nd round today.


Not as uniform as I'd like, but after raining right after I sprayed, I can't complain.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@pennstater2005 Getting there. Almost as nice as yours.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

TreyDoc said:


> @pennstater2005 Getting there. Almost as nice as yours.


There it is! I'm getting ready for round two maybe tonight after work. Mine is too thick for good seed to soil contact so I'm probably going to rent a dethatcher.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> There it is! I'm getting ready for round two maybe tonight after work. Mine is too thick for good seed to soil contact so I'm probably going to rent a dethatcher.


I have the opposite problem. The cover is pretty thinned out. Makes it hard to vacuum up with one of the worst bagging mowers. I'll be snagging a dethatcher as well to get in between the high spots and loosen up the dead mats everywhere.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Got the 2nd app done yesterday. Knocked over my glypho and lazer dye when a kid fell into the new foundation across the street. He was fine, but had to finish with round up and old school marking 600sq ft and spraying.





On a side note, the residual dye lasted about 4gal (2tanks) before completely disappearing.

If it all went to plan, it wouldn't be fun.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

That definitely looks like you have a good kill :thumbup:


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Also, what seed are you using?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

I am thinking about Hogan's Blend for a 90/10 mix, but I'm on the fence. @JDgreen18 Had a pretty similar KBG blend and said he'd rather have gone for a blend with similar growth, or a TTTF mix. Also, I'm supposed to put either PRG or TTTF in the storm water easement out back. 
The current TTTF blends Hogan's have are :
GTO, HOTROD, TURBO, FIREBIRD II.
COCHISE IV, FIREBIRD II, ROWDY, MATISSE, MICHELANGELO.

I'd like to go with SS1000, as it's the best blend for this area, but with the military discount from Hogan's, I'm leaning heavily to the GTO blend.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

Kbg really takes a long time to mature. The older it gets the nicer it gets. Tttf and kbg mixed gets you there quicker imo. I'm pretty happy with my seed from hogans tho. 
If I had to do it over in my backyard it would be only 3 cultivars all selected for even growth rate, blade width, and color.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@JDgreen18 Yeah, after all five of my test pots, I can see what you mean regarding growth rate. I've also noticed (maybe because it's a small focused area) that they have quite a large range of leaf texture/size. All said, all you're lawn areas look fantastic.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Took a look around and it looks good except for the quack grass. Think I'm going to feed those areas some more nitrogen and glypho again. I'd really like to make sure most of the quack is dead before I use the dethatcher and spread it everywhere.

On a side note, pulled up some K31 that I somehow missed in the front yard. Found a bit of quack with it too. Also, found some sod worms and chinch grubs, I think. There's also 6 spots of Pythium Blight. Yay


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@TreyDoc I recommend that you water heavily and give it nitrogen. You want to encourage the quack and any other weed to grow now, so you can kill it.

Did you apply any grub control this year?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@g-man No grub control. Haven't had a problem before. There was only 3 grubs in about a 12" diameter circle. Should I put some imidacloprid down on both front and back (reno) yard?

I may go back to original plan of renovating the front as well, as with the dead spots from killing the Triv and the diseases, it's already about 25% killed off.

I was watering, stopped when I applied 2nd round of glypho which was 3 days ago for right side and 2 days ago for left. Has it been long enough to start watering now? I know a quick release would be best, but would milo be a good choice, or some urea? I don't have any ammonium sulfate left and the new bag won't be here till Wednesday.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think you should do grub control during a reno. No point in taking a chance of loosing the young grass. Also, the bare and moist soil makes it a good area for grubs to grow.

I water like I'm growing seeds. This allows to test out the irrigation too. Urea is fast release and will be good. Save the Milo after the seeds.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@g-man Sounds good. Do you think imidacloprid along with Dylox now would be effective? From the MSU article, it says Dylox won't be effective till later. Thanks m8.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Just imidacloprid. No need to dylox. This is to prevent them growing.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Thanks again. Good luck on your reno, it's looking great.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Yesterday
Measured out and cut the grass/weeds/border of the 1' extension for front tree. Tried to mow backyard down to 1.25", but had a hard time with it. Got about 1k sq ft in about 2 1/2 hrs. Mower got stuck or stalled every step or so. 
Today
Going to take it slow, rake, mow, and put .5lb/M down in back to make sure that quack is growing for final glypho. Supposed to get .5" of rain from later this afternoon to late tomorrow.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Yesterday

Raked a bit. Ordered the Groundskeeper II. Cut the back to 1.25" twice, which took far too long. Need to replace the blade and front axle and/or wheel as it's bent from running into the uneven spots. Put down .75lbN/M or close to it. It started pouring as I was loading the fert, so I spread it by hand. Rain was nice as it was 92 out. Wish the dye would dissipate already . . .

There is still some green out there, but it's mostly clover and some fine fescues. Thinking of adding some CCO to the next glypho spot application. The K-31 and Quack are finally turning yellow and brown and hopefully, with the nitrogen, it will be dead when I run the dethatch this weekend. Still need to put down some imidacloprid for grub and sodworm control.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Busy day. 
Cut the front to 2.75" to be dethatched this weekend, then Tenacity at 4oz/acre rate along with some Triclopyr (CCO) to kill some weeds and clover (I let it build up as a nitrogen source). Then, will overseed in about 8-9 days with KBG. I wish I had just killed it off and started from scratch. May just do it yet . . .

Got a call from the rental place today to let me know I can pick up the dethatcher on Friday instead of Saturday due to a cancellation. So I went into town to pick up most of the items I ordered for the reno. Just need a seed blanket, CCO, either BioAdvanced Grub Control or BioAdvanced Complete Insect Killer (any suggestions?), and some BioAdvanced Lawn Control for the young seedlings.

Also, soaked the backyard reno with 3/4" to keep the dust down this weekend for pullin up the dead grass. Will be applying the grub insecticide on either Sunday or Monday.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think you should skip the triclopyr this close to seed day. Also tenacity only last 30days, so ideally apply it seed down day or the day after for it to cover most of the germination time.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@g-man Would it be OK for the front overseed, or take care of the clover later? If I should take care of the weeds in front, what should I use? Also, any thoughts on BioAdvanced Complete Insect Killer vs their Grub Control? I read the MSU article, but am unsure as to which product would be better this late. Thanks as always.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Here's the backyard before dethatching (the dye has still not dissipated):







White pot is the first of the new grass tests started on 09May. Still the best pot of the 5.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Can't wait to see what that looks like after destroying it with the dethatcher!


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@pennstater2005 Thanks man! Pregaming by taking the Tylenol and Motrin in a couple hours. How's your reno coming along?


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Coming good. Haven't done much since Sunday. I think I'll get the manual thatch rake out tonight :|

I'll be taking those same meds :lol:


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Finally started on the back today. Started with a pass on highest setting, didn't even fill my minuscule mower bag. Went to the second highest and this is what I got:







@pennstater2005 
Is all the dirt coming up normal? If it is, is there a way to not create a dust devil when mowing?

Random things.

Was getting hit by so many rocks, I didn't realize that I got stung 3 times. Glad I'm the only non allergic in the house.

Regardless of everything else, I'm excited about the state the soil is in.

This is a picture across the street of the foundation dirt that gets put down as "topsoil" when the houses are finished. This was basically my dirt when we moved in 2 years ago.



Wanted to add a picture of the soil now, but I can't get postimage to upload again. I'll post it later. Basically, much darker and soil tests show its much improved.

My dump spot for this project:


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Are you using the dethatcher? I was dusty as could be when dethatching and then when using the push mower to vacuum it up.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Yup. Think it's the same one you were using, BlueBird SR22. Already replaced the new (installed on Wednesday) air filter today. Longest part is mowing/vacuuming it up. Spent the last 2hrs mowing and am only done with 2/3 of the 1st pass. This may push me to go buy a new lawnmower now, just to speed this up &#128554;


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

TreyDoc said:


> Yup. Think it's the same one you were using, BlueBird SR22. Already replaced the new (installed on Wednesday) air filter today. Longest part is mowing/vacuuming it up. Spent the last 2hrs mowing and am only done with 2/3 of the 1st pass. This may push me to go buy a new lawnmower now, just to speed this up 😪


Beats the heck out of raking it up by hand! Yeah I rented that SR 22 too. Good luck!


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Trying to finish up the backyard. Started raining on a 0% chance around 1100 and looks like it is letting off some.





While it was raining, I ran to Tractor Supply and grabbed a lift blade, a 2.5gal Glypho on sale (plus $10 off), and some surfactant. Was planning on grabbing a 4' x 16' cattle feedlot panel to use for leveling, but somehow I forgot about the size and drove the Explorer into town.

I stopped to check out a new load of topsoil at the yard closest to my house. It was the cleanest I've seen there, but appeared to be a lot of little rocks, with a little bit of soil thrown in. I did like the mix of topsoil and masonry sand. Not sure if that's something I should use.

Time to go play in the mud.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Seed bed is looking good :thumbup:


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Finished up with the dethatcher today. Front yard had no issues. Last pass on the back yard, the power rake turned into a tiller. Got about 1.5" dirt up, but not much of the dead grass. Not sure if it was because of the rain or not, but not to much of a big deal. Going to drag with pallet, then rake it out with the landscape rake. Then fallow, level, fallow, level, etc. until seed down.

Any suggestions/criticisms are always welcome and appreciated.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Raked the mini side yard this morning.



Made a back to school run with the youngins. Came back to some crazy heat and 2,4,-D being sprayed all around, as all of my immediate and close by neighbors use the same lawn care company. Not sure why, but that smell has always made me sick.

Still need to finish raking and mowing the front



And the back . . .







Planning on raking up the grass with the bow, if needed, then leaf rake, and finally using the landscape rake to smooth and level.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Due to the non stop rain from the night of the 5th until now, I haven't had a chance to do anything. Unfortunately, the rain is supposed to start up again later today and rain on and off until Saturday night.

Not sure if I should try and rake up the excess dead grass and try to level, or wait for everything to dry. I don't want to compact or mess anything up, but I'm way behind.

Any tips or suggestions would be great, thanks.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

I haven't been able to do much with the rain and sogginess, so I marked the extended and new garden beds. I'm going to be spreading the compost so I can stop watching the compost tea go down the drain.

I also brought the front down to 1.25" so I can overseed as soon as I finish removing rocks and junk.

Also, working on removing rocks an inch or bigger if I can. Not sure if there's an easier way, but I'm just picking them by hand and digging the larger ones by hand.

Raking was pulling up to much soil with the dead grass, so I'm going to wait til it's good sand dry. I have to save what little good soil as I can. Did find 2 armyworms while testing the raking. It'll die soon enough.

Fun times.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Got a few issues.

The front had a ton of dead grass, but little thatch. Went over a little area with the thatch rake and found some deep thatch of around 2". Could easily pull up the grass with the thatch.

EDIT: the first picture was supposed to show how the top 1.5" of roots were not in the soil, but in the thatch.



May have to just run over all 3600sq ft with the thatch rake, as I think the unevenness of the ground is what caused the power rake to not pull it up.

The back is having the same issue. Lots of dead grass still in the soil and lots of thatch still coming up with the thatch rake. Lots of soil was pulled up at the second highest level on the power rake, so I'm not sure if renting it again and dropping it would work. It might end up just tilling the ground.

You can see some of the areas I went over with the thatch rake and how much it's pulling up. Not sure if I did something wrong with the power rake, but the thatch rake seems much more effective, but much more time consuming.







Will try some more manual thatch and dead grass removal today.

Any tips and suggestions are always appreciated.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Can you get a harley rake? Can you set your mower to the lowest level and use it to scalp those areas with a bag?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@g-man I could get a Harley or landscape rake but would cost over $350 for the rental (either rake and skid steer are 2 separate rentals @ $150/ea)and delivery/pickup fee. I'm currently trying the mower method, which is getting a fair amount, but there is a lot it's not touching and I'm stalling out due to the mounds of dirt.

I'm going to finish trying to mow as much as possible. Any suggestions?

Your reno is looking fantastic! Good to see those babies.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Keep using the mower and then rake the rest.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Will do. Thanks much.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@g-man @pennstater2005 and anyone else. I'm wondering if I need to remove all of this?





When I dig to remove it, it comes out in big clumps like this.



Then, it I have these 1-3" depressions to the next area.



I even have these mats where there is no grass. My initial thought was thatch, but it seems far to deep in some places and way to hard to pull out. Do I need to get this all out? If so, is there an easier method to get it out, rather than using a thatch rake and straight shovel?

As always thanks for any and all suggestions/criticisms.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

If you can't see soil it needs to have more removed. I bought a thatch rake a couple years ago and it was awesome to get more stuff up.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> If you can't see soil it needs to have more removed. I bought a thatch rake a couple years ago and it was awesome to get more stuff up.


That's what I'm using, it's just very slow going. In about 4.5hrs, the perimeter is all I've gotten done (roughly 350-400sq ft). I get stuck with the thatch rake, then have to pull out the square edge and remove like I'm cutting sod. Then rake it all into a pile.

Gonna take awhile, but it will get done :twisted:


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

TreyDoc said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> > If you can't see soil it needs to have more removed. I bought a thatch rake a couple years ago and it was awesome to get more stuff up.
> ...


It's a pain but worth it. When is your seed going down?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@pennstater2005 It was supposed to be this past Saturday. Was going to plan for the 15th, but now it looks like I'm going to have to push it back to sometime at the end of August.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Okay. Looking at the pictures some of the thick clumpy stuff could probably stay. It just needs roughed up enough to see the soil.

Whatever you can rake up with the thatch rake without going hard at it. I started that way but would've removed way too much stuff.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Thanks m8. I get a break tomorrow, supposed to rain around 0.5". Told the kids they can stay up for the meteor shower. We'll see if any of them make it. Hope all stays well at your place.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Can you set the mower with the bag to pick stuff up? You likely need to set the mower that the deck hits the soil.

The first images looks too thick. There are other options, but you will need a burn permit.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@g-man The mower can't get lower. It won't pick it up until it's ripped out anyways though. The power rake wasn't able to tear this up either. I'm up for any tips you got m8.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

A burn permit and a weed torch is an option. The warm season guys do it to their Bermuda. But this is dangerous. Like you need multiple layers of protection around a fire to your house and neighbors. I know someone that burn his shed down.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

TreyDoc said:


> Thanks m8. I get a break tomorrow, supposed to rain around 0.5". Told the kids they can stay up for the meteor shower. We'll see if any of them make it. Hope all stays well at your place.


Appreciate it. I gotta get outside and check the skies now :thumbup:


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Weed eater to the thick areas too.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Currently on the 4th thatch rake then rake the debris. Filled 27 Lowe's paper bags so far, as well as 14 wheelbarrow loads to the not so vacant lot across the street. It's getting there. Still have quite a bit of dead sticking up and a lot of babies I didn't plant popping up. Might try dragging the pallet around with some screws sticking out and see if I can't get more pulled up. Just from all the raking, it has leveled itself pretty well. There are still some extreme spots as well as a lot of green netting still underground from the original landscaper.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Very nice work!!


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Everything's almost set. The kids and I raked everything up and piled everything into 17 Lowe's paper bags!







Everything is as close to level as I think I'll get it for now. I'm sure I can get it more level once grass has gotten some roots in. Ran the makeshift pallet drag over a few times and just pulled up some dried grass and green netting. That is something I'm not sure if I should continue to remove or leave for erosion control.

Today was a chill day for everyone. It was nice for everyone to just relax as a fam and do basically nothing!

I still need to:
- mow one last time to get remaining dead grass low after rakings.
- edge the new and extended beds before seeding. 
- blanket spray glyphosate on grass babies I didn't plant and weeds.
- spray Tenacity on front and seed (same time as backyard).
- (after seed) remove mulch on garden beds, replace w/ compost.
- mark sprinkler spots as I will be manually moving 2 sprinklers.
- seed, Tenacity, peat/coconut coir bare areas, fert, and water!

Unfortunately, it looks as though we will be having some rain/storms for the next 4 days, so until it changes, on a holding pattern and just double checking everything.

As always, any tips/suggestions/criticisms are greatly appreciated.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Seed bed looks great! The possible storms are making me want to hold off as well.

17 bags is a lot of stuff :thumbup:


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Just wanted to update with plan due to rain. Going to rake loose debris that has become more apparent after rain. Then mow this afternoon due to a break in rain. Don't really want to when it's wet, but I think I'll be alright. Then I'll spray with glypho tomorrow, or on Tuesday as I should get about 12hrs of rain free time. Going to drag nail pallet to loosen either tomorrow, Wednesday, or Thursday depending on weather. Seed as soon as weather permits.

Babies that shouldn't be there.



Loose debris, current seed bed, weeds, and rocks that I have to remove.

















Plastic netting, should I remove?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> Seed bed looks great! The possible storms are making me want to hold off as well.
> 
> 17 bags is a lot of stuff :thumbup:


Thanks m8. Looks like the temps and weather should be breaking by Thursday. I'm hoping to have everything ready to seed as soon as it does. Do you think I should loosen soil as close to seed down or a day or two before?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Also, front yard overseed is ready for seed and Tenacity. Scalped to 1.25". Removed as much debris as possible. Leveled with topsoil mixed with compost. Will spray Tenacity with surfactant to kill abundance of weeds and use as pre-m on bare spots.







Have some germination in test spot from gas company tearing up part of lawn. Didn't water or add fert.



Front tree bed extension. Need to knock mound down and spread compost. Not going to plant anything till next spring, so will worry about soil next year.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

TreyDoc said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> > Seed bed looks great! The possible storms are making me want to hold off as well.
> ...


I took my hard rake the day of seeding and roughed everything up. Then used the back of a plastic rake to cover up about half of the seed or so. Then I rolled it in.

I actually put down my seed, tack, and straw today.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> I took my hard rake the day of seeding and roughed everything up. Then used the back of a plastic rake to cover up about half of the seed or so. Then I rolled it in.
> 
> I actually put down my seed, tack, and straw today.


Nice man! I hope everything goes as well as possible for you m8. I will hopefully be seeding the backyard on Thursday (KNOCK ON WOOD!!).


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

TreyDoc said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> > I took my hard rake the day of seeding and roughed everything up. Then used the back of a plastic rake to cover up about half of the seed or so. Then I rolled it in.
> ...


Good luck. Thursday is supposed to be nice as far as I can tell from the forecast.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Got the front yard over-seeded today. Mixed 0.8oz seed coat with 4# KBG blend on just over 3000sq ft. Will spray Tenacity tomorrow on front, dress with peat and be water ready on front. Also, finished extension of tree bed with help from the baby. He helped get rid of the rocks and worms. He helped take the first picture.





Will be spraying Glyphosate on backyard tomorrow and edging last bit of beds. Plan is to break up soil on Thurs, drop seed, fert, roll, spray Tenacity, and water. We'll see how the weather is, but barring any craziness, I will get it down, at the latest, by this weekend.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Yesterday sprayed Glyphosate over backyard and Tenacity over front overseed. Will be seeding weather permitting tomorrow, Friday at the latest. Will be using Milo as a starter, seed, Tenacity, and some seed blankets on slopes.

Another note, all over the lawn, there is a lot of moss. I raked it up, but it's coming back faster than I've ever seen.

As the irrigation situation is not what I wanted I may be adding some TTTF around the 1st if I'm struggling with the irrigation.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Can you spray some iron? It will kill the moss.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@g-man I do have some iron. Will spray that tomorrow. Thanks for that.
I'm considering ordering either the SS1000 (Regenerate, Raptor 3,Amity, 4th Millenium - 50# for $214), or Hogan's (GTO, Hotrod, Turbo, Firebird 2 - #50 for $140). Any recommendations on TTTF cultivars for near Erie PA? NTEP has the best turf grass quality for University Park going to the Hogan's, but disease resistance (top issue for me) going to the SS1000.

I'm on the opposite side of the state and a step down in zone from N.J. and University Park. I usually go off northeast overalls to pick, but I'm not sure how to pick which would be best overall quality and disease resistant. Any suggestions from anyone would be greatly appreciated.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Hope you get to put you seed down tomorrow! Wish I could give some advice on TTTF but I've never planted any. @ericgautier might be able to give a little insight.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Unless you're hell bent on the highest visual quality rating, and plan on spending $$$$ on buying and applying fungicides, I would opt for the disease resistance. My area tends to have fungus issues due to high humidity and my TTTF tends to get hit with brown patch. My kbg tends not to have as many fungus issues.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

@TreyDoc If you are concerned about disease then go with SS blend. I've been very happy with my Hogan TTTF mix though.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Thanks @ericgautier @Chris LI @pennstater2005 . I'm still planning on trying out the KBG first and if things aren't going too well by the first week of September, I'll get some TTTF. I just want to be as prepped as possible. I just need some tips from @iowa jim on how to properly move a sprinkler around when seeding KBG.

Having quite a bit of trouble with the weather. What was supposed to be a week of sun from today till next Wednesday, is looking like a week of rain. Might try seeding in wet soil, but have not looked much into it. Anyone have any thoughts or references?

Front overseed has been going good. Haven't had to water once since throwing the seed down. After last nights rainfall, most of the peat and compost ended up in the street/gutter. Now we have become a bird haven. My wishful thinking is that they are taking care of my grub n sodworm problem, not trying to eat the tiny KBG seeds. Will probably add some extra seed and topping when I finally seed the backyard.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Maybe you could try seeding mulch. It should help to reduce the washouts on slopes. I've used it successfully, but only have a slight slope to contend with. In recent years, I've switched over to peat moss and have seen better germination rates, so I prefer to use it now. If you apply some of both products, that may be helpful.

PennMulch, Covergrow by Profile and Seed Accelerator by Pennington are some seeding mulch products.


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

TreyDoc said:


> Thanks @ericgautier @Chris LI @pennstater2005 . I'm still planning on trying out the KBG first and if things aren't going too well by the first week of September, I'll get some TTTF. I just want to be as prepped as possible. I just need some tips from @iowa jim on how to properly move a sprinkler around when seeding KBG.
> 
> Having quite a bit of trouble with the weather. What was supposed to be a week of sun from today till next Wednesday, is looking like a week of rain. Might try seeding in wet soil, but have not looked much into it. Anyone have any thoughts or references?
> 
> Front overseed has been going good. Haven't had to water once since throwing the seed down. After last nights rainfall, most of the peat and compost ended up in the street/gutter. Now we have become a bird haven. My wishful thinking is that they are taking care of my grub n sodworm problem, not trying to eat the tiny KBG seeds. Will probably add some extra seed and topping when I finally seed the backyard.


There is no real secret to it, just walk gingerly as best you can. I ran my hoses over the patio then threw a flower bed and that helped keep the hose on the lawn to a minimum. I also did not water properly i watered twice a day very heavy and the second watering was right before dark that way the lawn would stay wet until at least noon the next day. I did get some rust at the end of September but it wasn't to bad and no sign of it in the spring. I did use soil moist seed coat and i think that helped. I ended up with no damage at all. One other thing i did was pound pvc end caps in the lawn at ground level that way i new exactly where to place my sprinkler when moving it. I used 6" end caps and they looked a little large at first but with the grass growing around the edges they turned out to be just right. So now when i water during a dry spell i don't have to adjust anything and you can not see them on the lawn until you get to about 5 to 10 feet away from them. This is still a lot of work and you will get tired of dragging hoses around but it is doable and i had 12,000 sft. Any thing i can help with i will be glad to. good luck


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@Chris LI Thanks for the tips m8. I looked into those, but the slopes are pretty steep, up to 45deg. I'm going to try a seed blanket, hoping that it will also help with erosion control on the steep slopes. For the rest of the yard, I think I might just try a section with nothing, one with peat, one with coconut coir (if I can figure out how to spread it), one with compost, and one with Pennington slope master. Already have the coir and compost and a bit of peat.

@iowa jim I'm gonna go grab some end caps and try that out. I was thinking of using little stakes, but now that I think about how I probably wouldn't be able to find them later, I think I'll go with the big white plastic. I don't know how gingerly I can step, but I'm 109lbs lighter than last year, so that may help :nod: .


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Got a break in the rain until tomorrow afternoon (hopefully). Going to:
-Blanket glypho this morning. 
-Let dry for 2hrs. 
-Finish the edging on new beds while drying. 
-Spread compost and soil on new beds, or at least pile it on and spread later. 
-Drag nail pallet to loosen soil (would like to wait to let glypho work a bit better, but we'll see).
-Throw down the seed with soil moist! If time is an issue, throw it down tomorrow morning.
-Rake, Roll, Milo, Roll, Tenacity, Seed blanket, water.

If I can get it all done today, I will. I really want to let glypho sit as I seem to already have about 1200-1300 sq ft of grass babies coming in. I'll see what feels right later in the day


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

TreyDoc said:


> @Chris LI Thanks for the tips m8. I looked into those, but the slopes are pretty steep, up to 45deg. I'm going to try a seed blanket, hoping that it will also help with erosion control on the steep slopes. For the rest of the yard, I think I might just try a section with nothing, one with peat, one with coconut coir (if I can figure out how to spread it), one with compost, and one with Pennington slope master. Already have the coir and compost and a bit of peat.
> 
> @iowa jim I'm gonna go grab some end caps and try that out. I was thinking of using little stakes, but now that I think about how I probably wouldn't be able to find them later, I think I'll go with the big white plastic. I don't know how gingerly I can step, but I'm 109lbs lighter than last year, so that may help :nod: .


Thats great that you lost that much weight, i am a petite 280lbs. so you won't have a problem. I need to find some of your will power and lose some of this weight.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Can't wait to see it! Lots of pics :thumbsup:


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

:thumbup:


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Quick glyphosate question. I was waiting for dew/moisture dried up and was wondering if I should scarify with bailed pallet and then spray instead of vice versa? Any thoughts are suggestions are greatly appreciated.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

TreyDoc said:


> Quick glyphosate question. I was waiting for dew/moisture dried up and was wondering if I should scarify with bailed pallet and then spray instead of vice versa? Any thoughts are suggestions are greatly appreciated.


Didn't see this until now. Honestly not sure it matters. Did you get seed down?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Nope. Spent all day trying to spray then rake. My glypho tank started leaking and hissing, so I ran to the local hardware store and grabbed the only larger than a gallon sprayer they had, Roundup 4 gallon. Worked good until about 2 gal in and then just wouldn't hold any pressure. Emptied it (into a 5 gallon bucket) and switched the handle and checked the rings, but couldn't see anything (not that I know what to look for). So, I thought I'd drag it up, ended up almost breakin my back. 2hrs later, nada. Just not enough weight on the pallet. Grabbed the bow rakes with the girls and we tried to rake it up, but were getting nowhere. I ran down to the hardware store, exchanged the tank, and grabbed the dethatcher. Close to being a great seedbed instead of a rock. We finished raking, gotta pick up a few piles tomorrow, then see if I need to do an opposite pass. Level, Roll, rake, seed, roll, water. The eldest actually went to bed early so she can get up at dawn to help me. I didn't tell her I wasn't planning on getting up at dawn, so now I'm getting up at dawn . . .


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Now you're getting up at dawn :lol: Good for her!

That stinks about the tank. You'll definitely have a good seed bed though.


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## gregfromohio (Aug 14, 2019)

pennstater2005 said:


> Can't wait to see it! Lots of pics :thumbsup:


Me too! Very interested is the ss1000 blend


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Getting up early.




1st pass at height 2 raking complete.







Thinking about either another pass at height 2, maybe 3, to get a little bit more dead up and to get some more loose soil to help level some low areas. Middle (south) and west side barely scratched the surface. @pennstater2005 any suggestions?

@g-man Would double rate Milo work as starter fert? I have some 18-24-4 and 24-24-6 and 18-5-9 as well, but would like to not use synths since there is a high chance of runoff right to storm sewer.

Last soil test was PH 7.1, K high at 203 ppm, and P optimum range at 90 ppm.

Thanks as always all.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You can use Milo for P if your soil needs P. The N is not that useful since most of it will be in the subsoil from all the irrigation during seeding.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

It looks like you have plenty of soil exposed for excellent seed to soil contact. More than I did.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> It looks like you have plenty of soil exposed for excellent seed to soil contact. More than I did.


I always seem to take it a bit too far . . .

3rd and final pass at 3rd setting.



Going to run the pallet, rake, pallet, roll, rake, seed, roll, water!


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Why are you going to roll after the pallet? I would personally just seed after that then roll it in. I used the back of a plastic rake after I seeded just to cover about half of the seed. Then I rolled. Just thoughts.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

I thought it was going to be deeper than it is. A lot of what looked like soil is just a bunch of dead stuff.



Gonna follow you're suggestion and 
-rake 
-pallet 
-rake again (if needed. Testing something out in a moment)
-mix 2 batches of 7# seed with soil moist 
(2lbs X 6k X 1.15 [85% germ] / 2)
-seed
-Milo at bag rate
-roll
-Tenacity
-seed blanket (maybe) on slope
-water back then front overseed
-shower
-return rentals
-run the kids to Wally for some extra school stuff
-get groceries
-clean the car
-water
-clean the tools
-replace blade/filter/oil on lawnmower
-water if needed
-shower
-eat
-baby time/baby sleep
-and pass out.

Hopefully the rain that was supposed to come stays away unless it's a pleasant drip 💧.

Then tomorrow, before first water, I'd prefer to blanket spray, but I want to at least spot spray glyphosate with a 1gal. Not sure if I want to try the exchanged roundup 4 gal tank. Don't want to use my field king for glypho. We'll see.

I can't keep a schedule anyways . . .


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

I'm having a tough time with this green netting everywhere. It's creating huge areas of low spots. Found 42 rusted stakes today alone too. The dead debris is also hard to separate from the soil and netting, so I feel like I'm losing a lot of soil. Probably in my head. Almost there.







Original potted grass (white pot) is going good. Some powdery mildew and dollar spot. Added some Milo and 10-10-10 on 15Aug and it appears to be growing out of it. I'll add the other pots later on tonight.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Didn't quite finish yesterday. I'm a bit worried about some rain on Tuesday-Wednesday. Could get up to 2.2" of rain, .6" over 4hrs on Tuesday morning and 1.6" over 10 hours starting at 2000 Tuesday night. Not sure if that is going to be too much, but we'll see.

Today's plans:
-rake up piles of debris
-finish edging on bed
-quick rake
-mix seed with soil moist
-spread seed
-rake in
-Roll
-spread Milo
-Roll
-seed blanket on slope
-Tenacity pre-m at 8oz/A (total 12oz/Acre for the year)
-spot spray glyphosate
-Roll light if needed for foot prints 
-wait a couple hours, mow front, add more seed to front, possibly tenacity pre-m at 4oz/A (total of 12oz/A for the year)
-water front and back


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@g-man What is the ideal phosphorus amount to lay down per 1000?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Purdue recommends 1.5lb of P/ksqft at seeding for a reno. I've never done this much. If you soil is not deficient, I don't think it needs it.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

It was at 90ppm/180lb/A (Mehlich 3 ICP) on 27Jun2019. I'll just go at 1lb/M.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

This green netting is going to be the death of me. Nearly every pile is this:









That green is not live grass . . . (I know, I suck at pictures)

I've been working on the lawn for about 13hrs. I haven't even finished raking half of the lawn yet. Turns out, I have 2-3 layers of this green netting. Not sure how it got above ground, probably the power rake, but it is impossible to rake anywhere. It gets caught rips a huge hole in the ground and exposes even more netting. I can't even fill in the spots without the netting getting caught on something and ripping more. I try and leave as much as possible, but now I have netting sticking up everywhere.

There's about 3500sq ft that it covers, and I'm a bit anxious about the reno. I have to return the power rake and roller tomorrow by 0800 and the roller is rented out for a week. I cannot find another push one for rent with 40mi. I would just buy one, but my wife has made it pretty clear that she knows I'm already over budget.

As a last ditch effort, I may just try and spread the piles out and just seed. Or just run the power rake through it all. I know it's not optimal, but I'm unsure of what else to do.

Any suggestions? Thanks for any and all help.

@pennstater2005 @g-man


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

What is the green netting? What's it made of?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

It's plastic, I believe, that is held in with a ton of rusted stakes. What it looks like is they may have done it for erosion, but I don't know why they layered it. They also put it all throughout the backyard, not just the slope.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

The grass will probably root right through and around it. I would get the seed down soon. If you had grass there before that was growing okay I don't see any reason why this seed won't do well.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Here's a picture of what it looks like and how it comes up.





It comes up in chunks, that is near impossible to get anything out of.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> The grass will probably root right through and around it. I would get the seed down soon. If you had grass there before that was growing okay I don't see any reason why this seed won't do well.


I'm sure it will, the problem is, there are areas that are pretty low and new low divots from the netting that I'm tying to fill and smooth over. When I do that, even with a straight edge, netting gets caught and rips up more.

Even just raking up the piles/after the piles to spread the mounds of dirt just pulls more.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Was your whole yard sod when they build the house? That net looks like what they use for sod to keep it from falling apart. It is a pain. It is likely made of nylon, so a torch(safely) should melt it.

I would not stress too much about it. Remove what you can see and drop your seeds.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@g-man I'm not sure if it was sod. I do know they had to do the lawn twice (didn't turn out to well).

I just got finished collecting all the piles. I went through and tugged a bit and cut all the netting as close to the ground as possible. I then spread the dirt around by hand. Ill see how it turned out in a couple hours.

I can only imagine what my neighbors might've thought if they saw me in the middle of the night crawling around with shears and a bunch of paper bags . . .

Plan is wake up at 0530, spread seed and fert, then roll. Gotta finish some shopping, so I can relax for a few days. Then I'll spray Tenacity then water. I already have the seed divided into 2 7# bags and seed coat divided into two 1.5oz bags. Milo and starter ready to go. 3#/M of 18-24-6 and 7#/M Milo pro 6-4-0. Tenacity at just under 8oz/A, 6tsp/6M. Going heavy, as there was lots of weeds popping up during fallow.

Will see what happens . . .

Thanks @pennstater2005 and g-man for the help.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Dang! You were working to almost 2 a.m.? Nice!!


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> Dang! You were working to almost 2 a.m.? Nice!!


Kinda nice at that time. Didn't have to fix much this morning either. Except I had gotten two boxes with ready to go supplies. One had my rubber boots, gloves, eyewear, and mini scale. The other had the M-binder and extra seed coat. When I took out the trash/recycling, I must have taken them out . . . I'm an idget.

Got the seed and fert rolled in along with Tenacity at 4oz/A. Spreading the seed was a pain. Had gusts of 45mph and sustained winds of 15mph. Had to start, stop, rake, repeat. Put a straw blanket down on part of the slope. It got all tangled and the stakes broke. No more Greenscape products.

Gonna run tonight through Wednesday morning, so we'll see how it goes. I may try to screen the rest of the compost (the rows were under trees and have lots of branches) and dress over as much as I can.

Front is doing well. Getting a lot of white in the front and a few babies showing up.

Thanks for all the help so far everyone. It's going to be nice to relax a bit, especially since the kids are heading back to school tomorrow


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Okay time to wait for some germination!!! So the trash company took that stuff or you remembered first?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

I missed it. I was looking to apply it with the fert and couldn't find it. It's my fault, I put it next to the recycling along with the bags of debris. I called the recycling center and they said they will try and keep an eye out for them.

In the mean time, I'm deciding whether to screen the compost we have. The other option is to grab something like Slopemaster. I figure I'll just skip a Penguins game to cover it :| I was thinking about peat, especially since my PH has gone up to 7.1, but I would need about 21 bags of Peat Moss. I could also grab another 50lbs of M-binder. We'll see.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Having some trouble with the wind. Having sustained of 21mph and gusts of 50mph. Oscillators are all over the place. Doesn't look much better for the next few days.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Edit: Currently using Melnor DuraTek Oscillators

Edit 2: Think I might try hand watering. We're supposed to get 13hrs of rain starting at 1400, but the lawn dried up quick this morning from last nights rain.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Not too much to do with winds like that. The rainbirds on spikes that I'm using are fairly resistant to the wind as they're a pretty intense output. How much would you have to hand water?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Focus your heavy watering at night (11pm). This should be the time with less wind and give the soil time to absorb the water. The day waterings is to keep it from drying out. Not much you could do with wind.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> Not too much to do with winds like that. The rainbirds on spikes that I'm using are fairly resistant to the wind as they're a pretty intense output. How much would you have to hand water?


6k reno and 3.5k overseed :lol: I was thinking of trying out some rotary sprinklers and hand water whatever is still dry. Did the rainbird cause any issues with the seed or soil? I may have to try that one out.

Luckily for today, got some long, slow rain, and a brief downpour that let me see where the problem spots will be.

2 gutters end here, which used to create a puddle almost to the house and down towards the storm sewer. Not anywhere as bad after filling up the low spots.


Side of house that was very low. The whole side would turn into a lake. Not perfect, but I'm much happier with what I'm seeing now.


No rain in the forecast for 7 days, but all are 16mph+ wind days.



g-man said:


> Focus your heavy watering at night (11pm). This should be the time with less wind and give the soil time to absorb the water. The day waterings is to keep it from drying out. Not much you could do with wind.


That sounds like a plan. Ill water good n long at 11pm and whatI can during the day.

Much appreciated guys.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

No issues but I had peat down. And now I have straw down. So it takes a bit more impact from the water better than bare soil I would imagine. I would stick with what you're doing unless it absolutely isn't working.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Day 8 (yesterday, 27Aug19) of front overseed and she has babies! All the bare spots that were seeded and covered with peat have babies. 3 of 5 bare spots covered with compost have babies. I found a few in between existing thin grass, but I can't be sure.



Tenacity is working it's magic.









Planning on giving it a little Milo in a few days, as I didn't put any fert down at seeding (only Milo at 8lb/M in May). Also planning on cutting back on the water, to not aid fungus anymore than I already have.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

2 DFS



pennstater2005 said:


> No issues but I had peat down. And now I have straw down. So it takes a bit more impact from the water better than bare soil I would imagine. I would stick with what you're doing unless it absolutely isn't working.


Takes a bit more time then my fallow practice runs, but it's getting done. On pics 3&5 you can see the dry spots due to the wind. Hand watered them. On pics 4&5, you can see the areas that dried before I finished watering the rest of the lawn. Those are the same as this morning though, so I think I will make sure to mulch those areas tomorrow with the compost I already screened.
Ready with the ale whenever you want that straw removed 











I have noticed some baby grass coming up in places. I know it's not the KBG, I think it may be some PRG coming from natural seed. Not going to try to deal with it now, maybe once it's larger, I'll pull as much and deal with the rest later.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Attempting to walk gingerly on wet soil is quite a task. I'm not taking exactly the same path twice, so as to spread out the footprints and not end up with a large compacted area. I figure a spread out, not so compacted area will be better. I'm going to try watering twice a day for 20min each zone, once at night and once around noon. I'll see how it goes and adjust accordingly.

I'm debating what will be the best strategy for once everything germinates (knock on wood). Thinking about getting a smooth bottom shoe and apply some cooking oil or some dish soap, so that I disturb as little as possible. I could have the middle child do it all and only put about 1/3 of the weight on the ground :twisted:.

As for the end of the 2nd DAS, I'm quite content. Got a bunch of things I could do, do better, or shoulda done, but I'm at where I'm at and it coulda been a lot worse. Thanks again to all that have helped so far and for the help that is to come.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Cooking oil? For what?


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

g-man said:


> Cooking oil? For what?


To gently slide across his tiny little grass babies when the time comes without inuring them. Am I right @TreyDoc? Please tell me I'm not right.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@pennstater2005 That's the theory! Or a least to make the bottom of the shoes less likely to (grab) the baby grass when walking across. I have no clue if it'll help, but I figure it can't be worse than walking across them when they're wet with regular shoes.

I figure I can try a few things out, since I know I'm going to have to fix some things later anyway. I may be switching to a dedicated sprinkler and hose in each zone (like I'm supposed to). I would need 5 more of these sprinklers and 3 more 50' hoses. I'll see.

On another note, they found my boots, gloves, and goggles, but no scale. Picked those up last night. Hopefully they find the other box.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Was your tackifier in that box? I walk over my grass and have since pretty early on. As long as you don't turn hard while walking it'll be fine.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

It was/is in the one that hasn't been found (yet) . . . I have to make sure I go from start to nighbors' yard instead of turning around after placing.

Getting a lot of footprints from not walking all the way around.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Oil on grass could cause problems. Just walk carefully it will be fine.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

g-man said:


> Oil on grass could cause problems. Just walk carefully it will be fine.


Good to know. Glad I posted here first. Thanks m8.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

4 DAS

RENO BABIES?!?!







Right next to road that was a haven for everything you don't want in a lawn. Anyway to tell if these are good or bad?

EDIT: Checked about 12 other spots and there are babies at all of them. Mostly sporadic, but 3 spots where there are nice groupings.

Front overseed



Going to grab a couple rotors and impacts (thanks for the recommendation @pennstater2005) today. Going to place around the edge and on the corners, so that I should only have to walk on the lawn in 2 spots (hopefully).


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Yeah buddy! It's coming in :thumbup:

With the impacts I find the rainbirds water more close and far but a little less in between. I just use the screw adjustment on the rainbird for a few minutes to get more where it needs it. All in all though they've worked it great. You can really fine tune those it just takes a bit of practice to figure it all out.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@pennstater2005 I tried them out, but they threw a bit too much stuff around. They did get some pretty good distance even with the screw adjustment.

Made a simple setup of 4 zones (possibly 3 once I switch the sillcock with the ball valve and pex I already made, I love Sharkbite). One with oscillator pointing straight up for 4'x48', one with 3 and one with 4 Orbit h2o's, and 2 h2o's. Head to head from at least one direction on all. Don't think it's too important for a temp setup. May be used again though. I'm alright with a mild overlap in the middle and no sprinkler. This way, there is only about 15' of hose on the seed mat and nothing at all on the lawn. Might switch the h20's with pgp ultras, as they are more consistent (I believe) and cheaper. Dunno, I'll see.

Got a lot of onion grass coming up. Some unwanted grass sprouting as well. Big storm that was predicted for tomorrow, looks like it will be missing us.

Can I still toss a bit of compost on lawn? Or should I not risk messing with the seedlings?

Front overseed is doing far better than I had expected. Established grass has not recovered from low cut and has only grown an average of 0.3" as of today. More sprouts everywhere and some have reached an inch tall. Might throw a very small dose of Milo on the open areas, as I don't want too much of the established grass growing fast. Poa A is bleached as well as many weeds. Looks like some Triv is back, but I don't think I'm going to worry about that now. It's time to relax a bit.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

I spoke too soon and it looks like the storm is heading this way (again). Looks like about 2.5" tomorrow night and 1.5" from 2000-0400. Hopefully, it's spread out enough that everything will be good. Debating on running all the way into town during Labor Day weekend to grab a bit of slope master to try and help. I could also get some more compost down, but not sure that would help . . .


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

TreyDoc said:


> I spoke too soon and it looks like the storm is heading this way (again). Looks like about 2.5" tomorrow night and 1.5" from 2000-0400. Hopefully, it's spread out enough that everything will be good. Debating on running all the way into town during Labor Day weekend to grab a bit of slope master to try and help. I could also get some more compost down, but not sure that would help . . .


Ugh nothing worse than this hopefully isn't as bad as forecasted....fingers crossed


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Let's hope they're wrong on the rain. How is the irrigation working out?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@JDgreen18 @pennstater2005 Thanks guys,

Irrigation is working out surprisingly well. Still have to adjust for wind and water dry spots, but when it's calm, it all gets done. Just figuring out how to match precipitation rates with no data on the sprinklers, but average GPM for the different spray patterns. 
Blew out one of the 100' 3/4" hoses. Gonna run and exchange tomorrow. I know there's nothing I can do, but I wanna watch the storm. At the very least, I can see where the problem spots are.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

And so it begins . . .  :shock:













At least the new grade is keeping the water flowing to the storm sewer instead of back to the house. :banana:

EDIT: You can see it better in these pics


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Oh boy. I know that feeling :|


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Reno - 8 DAS
Overseed - 7 DAG

Finally got to check out the lawn after the heavy, then long, steady rain. There's pretty widespread germination and some areas in the middle that have come in quite well. There is a lot of erosion and seed displacement. Not sure what to do with the piles of debris (dead stuff) that have formed all over. I want to rake them, but know that's probably a bad idea. I can't fix the soil issue now, but I am planning on adding some soil/sand to re level everything out. There are places where a bunch of runaway seed gathered and sprouted and is forming a dense forest. Probably will have to pull some out or try to plug a bit after they stop pouting. Spread some seed on 2 areas I'm betting that will need more.

Trying to fix the irrigation as the storm messed most of it up. Getting one big area that is now a dead spot, so I'm going to add another 2 sprinklers in the middle of the lawn after tonight's rain storm.

The front overseed is doing well. I'm planning on some spoon feeding either today or tomorrow on the bare spots only, just to give them some P&K. There were some spots that washed out, specifically where there was a little extra peat. I think the peat just pulled all the seedlings out when it flooded.

All in all, thankful that it wasn't worse.

Bunch of unorganized photos of seedlings and debris buildup. Still not sure how to take pictures with my wife's iPad . . . Will edit in a bit.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

9 DAS
First time I can see it all starting to come up.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

I see that light green hue! Have you seen any of that green netting?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Unfortunately. There's a bunch in the back that has come up after the storms. Grass is growing all around and through it. Hopefully, I'll be able to cut it out so it doesn't rip the grass and soil up. Can't do much about it right now, so I'll worry about it later (meaning: too lazy to do anything about it now). A lot of babies in the areas that had erosion too.

We are supposed to have 7 days of low 70's and partly cloudy skies. We'll see how long we actually get though. It is going to be very windy with ~20mph winds everyday.

Looking forward to mowing in a few weeks. Going to go pick up a cheap reel today to do the front. Boss said no to a Swardman :evil:


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

I want you in my life!


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Just buy it.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

I would, but wifey will make me sleep with it . . .


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Need some advice regarding fungicides. I was planning on spraying Propiconazole 14.3 between 2 and 3 leaf stage to help with root development and establishment, as well as prevent some diseases. Is there something else I should be applying before, along with, or after? I'm new to fungicides and have read a bunch here, but am still a bit confused on which fungicides to use and how to not have diseases become resistant.

I'm also going to be grabbing some FEature, 50lbs Urea (my other bag got soaked, when someone left the garage windows open), Ammonium Sulfate (trying to find the best price), some Ferrous Iron, Milky Spore (recommendations on where and how much needed for this fall), Dylox (not sure if I should as I have seen many moths laying eggs, but also some Monarch and tiger swallowtail butterflies,), cracked corn, and alfalfa. That's everything on the list. Any suggestions here would be great as well.

Currently have: 6oz Tenacity, 9 bags of Milorganite Professional 6-4-0, 2 50lb bags of Green Magic 18-5-9, 100lbs of Lawn Food 10-0-2, 2 gal surfactant, ~ 5lb Urea salvaged, 10lbs of MoP, and assorted post emergent herbicides.

Any help is always appreciated.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

RENO - 4 DAG 11 DAS

Grass is coming up fairly uniformed. The path/valley going from one side of lawn to storm sewer is coming in thick and heavy. I'm guessing that the washouts pushed a lot of extra seeds there. The storm sewer hill, is filling in very nicely, which is where I was the most concerned about. Still having to adjust sprinkler positions depending on the wind situation.











Getting earthworm mounds and castings (I think) everywhere. Not sure there's anything I can do, or would want to do.











OVERSEED - 10 DAG 18 DAS

Front overseed is coming nicely. Cutting the grass today that is overshadowing the new grass(only at 2.2" at the highest) to 1.75" using a Scott's reel (only reel I've used, but I can still tell it's not the best). Free nitrogen (clover) is coming back from Tenacity burn with a vengeance, as is Annua. Will be spraying again in a couple weeks.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Looking good! What do you think of the orbit sprinkler?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> Looking good! What do you think of the orbit sprinkler?


Unimpressed. Every single sprinkler has a different pattern for each setting. Small setting on one shoots a straight stream, while another shoots out a partial mist with the stream. I understand they are mass produced and are simply stamped plastic, but it has truly made grouping the sprinklers and trying to match precip rate extremely difficult. I end up having to set the corners on small, 180's at medium, and 270 on large. Nowhere mear close, but that's all I can do. I end up having to "turn off" the corners and letting the 180+ run a bit longer. All, but 2/10, leak unless on the large setting. Not so much the fault of the sprinkler, but no setting at all does well with the wind. If I wasn't getting so much impact from the Rainbird impact, I would have gone with a bunch of those.
The good thing about the Orbits, is that I can string 4 on one line, and having 3 on one bib and 4 on the other, I can run all 7 at the same time with no issues.
I truly wish that I had just gotten either some MP3500's or some ultras with 2gpm nozzles. Not only would I be able to match precip, but it would have cost about 1/2 the price. May still return the Orbits and order the Hunters, just debating whether it's worth it at this point.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

On a side note, both pots I planted at seed down, decided not to germinate. They were pampered with their perfect soil, inside temperature (not near vents), and better than outside watering. All of the other pots I've started since April, have come up amazingly. Dunno.


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

@TreyDoc how do you like the scott's reel mower? I am thinking about getting a manual one. I want to try a small section of my lawn out. I don't think I could reel the entire lawn, since I have no irrigation.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Mrotatori said:


> @TreyDoc how do you like the scott's reel mower? I am thinking about getting a manual one. I want to try a small section of my lawn out. I don't think I could reel the entire lawn, since I have no irrigation.


Full disclosure, it's the first and only one I've used. Out of the box, it seems well constructed and durable. 
-Assembly is a bit difficult, as instructions are vague. Better off just going off of the pictures on the box (or watch YouTube vid). 
-Adjusting the initial height settings (2"-3") is easy enough. If you want to cut lower, it takes about 5-10 minutes to adjust. 
-Cut quality isn't bad at all. 
-The issue I keep coming across, is lots of grass not being cut, even after 2 perpendicular passes. It's not high grass, less than 2.25" even at the highest spots, but cutting to ~1.75" for some reason, just doesn't give an even cut. My front yard is a bit bumpy, but I don't seem to have the issue all over. Not sure of the cause.
-The bag seems to be more of a gimmick (it is a universal bag). I tried moving it more left and right of center, but same results. I may have been moving too fast, not sure, but very little goes in the bag. After about 1800sq ft, this is all I had in the bag.





-Comfort is great.
-Use is good. Takes a bit of getting used to. I wish there was a lock for the handlebars, so it wasn't constantly moving up and down.
-I was expecting this to be quiet. It is not. I understand why it's loud, as the blades are constantly going over the cutting blade. I just wasn't expecting it to be that loud.
-There are no stripes, but following the wheel marks is easy enough. I'm sure there are rollers for reel mowers.
-Everything I've stated, could very well be user error. 
I grabbed this reel specifically because of the bag. I think I may try out the Fiskars at Lowe's and grab a bag for it. Not sure. I still got 87 days to return it, so I want to play around with this and see if I can figure out some of the issues.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@Mrotatori I spent quite a bit of time with the reel mower, and I can't recommend it. The back wheels have become loose, the front wheels have become unbalanced, the bag is a gimmick, and the quality overall, just doesn't match the price. I know many folks here have a Fiskars, and not even having used one, I would say try that first.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Front Overseed - 20 DAS 12DAG

Coming in and looking good. Cut it down to 1.625" yesterday (most of it). Established grass is turning a nice dark green. Haven't put any fert down yet. Will wait about another week or so. Only going to water once a day for 6 minutes.









Reno - 13 DAS 6 DAG

Starting to come in fairly uniform all across the back. There are thicker areas, where the seed has settled after the washouts. A few bare areas that I tossed some soaked seed onto. Plugs will be my next choice if I should need.

The grass coming up in and around the straw blanket is near 3". Not sure why it's growing so fast, but I'm not complaining.

Lots and lots of earthworm mounds coming up. There are around 12 every square foot. They have disrupted some seedlings, but I don't think, in the lawn term, they will hurt anything.

Going to reduce watering to twice a day to minimize risk of disease. Having a difficult time with both sprinklers and wind. 4 Orbits have busted so far and the wind has been absolutely insane. Yesterday, we had gusts to 55mph. I may go back and grab some more Rainbird impacts that @pennstater2005 recommended. I think the babies should be ok now and won't go flying anymore.

Not much else to do on the lawn, but water and wait. Going to finish screening compost and laying 3" along new beds and removing and replacing old wood mulch on existing beds with the compost that has larger chunks in it.





















Also, the neighbors turf management folks accidentally sprayed about 2' into my yard (more, but 2' of seeded area) all down the ~ 130' side (picture below). They sprayed with 2,4 d, triclopyr, foliar nitrogen, granular nitrogen, and prodiamine. I'm hoping that won't mess with the seedlings, as that shaded strip on the side is a pain.


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

TreyDoc said:


> @Mrotatori I spent quite a bit of time with the reel mower, and I can't recommend it. The back wheels have become loose, the front wheels have become unbalanced, the bag is a gimmick, and the quality overall, just doesn't match the price. I know many folks here have a Fiskars, and not even having used one, I would say try that first.


Thanks for letting me know


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Looks great. How is the straw mat thingy working? I see germination underneath it anyway. Did you get the rainbirds?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@pennstater2005 Straw mat is doing surprisingly well. It did roll up on itself in a few spots, but it doesn't seem to have hurt anything. It's currently the best spot of the whole reno, with growth already over 3". Going to be a pain trying to get it out, I think. Gonna need some knowledge from someone more experienced than I (or just cut the mat).









You can see my neighbors weeds going nuts, right on the edge of the reno.

Did not get the Rainbirds, as they are not sold at the local Home Depot anymore this year. All they had left are Orbit brass impacts. I'm thinking of ordering them from Lowe's tonight. Debating on getting the TimeMaster return at HD for $459. So many good deals on lawn mowers right now. If I do go back into town, I'll see if SiteOne has them. Tomorrow is supposed to be sunny, a high of 84, and fairly windy, so I think it would be a perfect day to try them out if I can find them.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

I got the rainbirds from Amazon. $13 or so. I would remove the mat as the grass comes up and it won't wash away. Even if it's in sections.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> I got the rainbirds from Amazon. $13 or so. I would remove the mat as the grass comes up and it won't wash away. Even if it's in sections.


That's much better than the $20 from Lowe's. Remove it around the time of the first mow? I would prefer removing it now, I'm just worried about pulling up the new grass. I'm thinking of just cutting it in 1' squares.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Rainbirds here....

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00002N8NR?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

Spikes here.....

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00LORAFGM?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

The longer it stays in the harder it will be to remove. Where the grass isn't yet I'd leave it and where it is I'd take it out as able.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Going to try and remove all of the straw mat today. Going to wait till it dries up a bit, so I will hurt as little as possible walking on the newbs. I'll worry about the stray straw when the grass gets more mature.

@pennstater2005 thanks for the links. I ordered 4 last night. I was thinking of using the spikes from the H2O's until I take them back (I'm cheap, I know).


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Front Overseed

Going to attempt to reel mow to 1.5". Apply compost at 1/4". Apply 2lbs/M of Green Magic and 2lbs/M of Milo. Total of .48lbs N/M. Water it in and enjoy.

Reno

Removing straw mat. Seeding bare areas.

Garden

Screening compost as much as possible. Using unscreened for mulch on garden beds. Screened for lawn and new garden beds.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Got the straw mat up. Didn't know there was a bit of tackifier on the netting, but I got it all up without to much damage. I'm impressed. There is far better germination and growth here than anywhere else. Some areas have just under 3", with the average around 2". It's funny looking at the ditch, as you can see that something was different there. Tomorrow's plan is to finish covering reseeded areas.







The rest of the reno is going well. Lots of worm castings.







Reseeded a bunch of areas and started topdressing with coconut coir. Went through just over 6.5cu ft, have 7 bricks left (2.2cu ft /brick).



Front overseed got cut to 1.5" and 3lb/M Green Magic 18-5-9.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

10 DAG

Had a crazy storm all last night. Got almost 1.75" in 40 min and 2" more through the night.





Lost all the seed from two days ago and there is a lot of baby grass that has been washed elsewhere. There's supposed to be another storm tomorrow, so I'm not going to do anything today. I will throw down some more seed this weekend. I know it may be a bit late to do much, but I'll see what happens.

One good thing was, we got to see the best thunder and lightning storm I've ever seen. That was absolutely phenomenal.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Oh boy. Sorry man. We got the same heavy downpours. All I can say I is areas I thought were wiped out ended up filling in. Good luck.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> Oh boy. Sorry man. We got the same heavy downpours. All I can say I is areas I thought were wiped out ended up filling in. Good luck.


That's the reason I put KBG down  If it doesn't come in all the way, I have about 12 plugs from pots to put in that should help for next spring and fall. Planted another 3 pots to double that amount. I hope they do better than the last 2 pots that didn't germinate.

I am impressed though, that the drainage is still doing what it's should. There is one spot on the East side that no longer pools at the house into the yard, but pools a bit smaller away from the house. The other is on the west side and besides a small area of about 6", the water is no longer pooling all along the basement wall. It's flowing quite well down to the storm sewer. I'll fix the big area next year and the small area once it's had some time to dry up. Now, if I can get the township to fix the storm sewer and stop it from flooding into the yard . . .


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

I have noticed quite a bit of moss beginning to appear. Is there anything I can do at this point? Or should I wait till after I mow? Also, how can I keep it from happening in the first place? I've tried keeping it as "dry" as possible, but the rain doesn't seem to listen to me . . .

Thanks in advance.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Reno - 19 DAS, 12 DAG

Had another awesome lightning storm along with 2.67" of rain last night. I thought I lost quite a bit of baby grass along with a ton of seed, but it looks as though a lot of grass is covered with mud turned dirt. I got some stood back up using the blower, but I'm not sure what to do about the rest. I used my hand to "rake" the soil and debris on the sloped areas. Getting some fairly deep ruts from the shifting soil, but I will address that next year.
I am going to drop some more seed in all the bare areas and then drop a light amount all over. It's late, but I hope it may help. I pulled a bunch of weeds and removed some unearthed large rocks.
The grass on the ditch slope is having some crazy growth. I will probably cut it tomorrow @ 2". Only a small amount of the reno has stopped pouting, so I will wait for a few days to mow the rest.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

How's it coming? Saw the moss comment. Maybe Scott's MossEX? Not sure about with new seedlings.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Do you have a black layer?
What about pH?

Maybe some soil amendments (i.e. lime, greensand), or even plain sand can help. If it's time for N, maybe mixing in some iron (FAS, FeATURE, etc.), along the lines of the MossEx suggestion of @pennstater2005.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> How's it coming? Saw the moss comment. Maybe Scott's MossEX? Not sure about with new seedlings.





Chris LI said:


> Do you have a black layer?
> What about pH?
> 
> Maybe some soil amendments (i.e. lime, greensand), or even plain sand can help. If it's time for N, maybe mixing in some iron (FAS, FeATURE, etc.), along the lines of the MossEx suggestion of @pennstater2005.


I am going to try and get some iron on the reno. The main trouble area is on the east side that gets all morning till early afternoon sun and shade for everything else. Most of the reno is just getting sporadic spots of moss shooting up, but seems to be doing alright after not getting any moisture since the last storm (late Friday 13Sept-early Saturday 14Sept). I just want to be careful and not put down too much iron.

Reno - 14 DAG, 21 DAS

The grass is starting to come back to life! Quite a bit of growth, with some spotty areas around 3". The west side strip is the only consistent area, with all grass close to 3". The slope area is getting close to 3.5" in a few spots, so I am going to need to cut at least the slope and west side tomorrow. Pretty excited about this first mow. Going to have to be with the rotary, as I no longer have the reel mower. Sharpened up a new blade today and gave the mower a quick cleaning after mowing the overseed for the first time with the rotary. Also going to start with .25lb N/M weekly.
There are quite a few bare areas, that have almost none to no growth at all. I'm planning on plugging, but not sure when I should plug from pots. 2 pots currently have leaf spot, so I'm trying to baby them out of it before I will plug.







Overseed - 20 DAG, 28 DAS

First rotary mow at 1.75". Looks fantastic. Lots of bare areas have filled in and I am seeing lots of new blue coming up throughout the yard which was unexpected. Looking forward to watching everything develop and spread. Planning on a weekly .25lb N/M for the overseed as well.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Reno - 23 DAS, 16 DAG

Mowed @ 1.75" except for slope which was mowed @ 2.25" because there were areas around 3.25" tall. I cut quite a bit more of the reno than I thought I would. There are quite a few weeds coming in, so I picked what I saw as I was mowing. Didn't knock down too many worm castings, but hopefully that'll resolve itself in the future.
I was worried about using the rotary, but (knock on wood) everything seems to have worked very well. I'm a bit worried about quite a few bare spots and a few far to thick spots. Possibly using the thick spots as plugs down the road.

Got done a bit late, so I didn't want to water enough for some urea and propiconazole. I will get the urea down in the morning @ .2lb N/M and the propi in the afternoon.

Will organize, delete, and label photos tomorrow. I wasn't able to get pictures of the rest of the yard tonight. I'll snap some more tomorrow.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

18 DAG, 25 DAS

Applied 2.75lbs of Urea over 6k for .21 lbs N/M. Watered in with .25". Coming in really well and starting to fill up. Just mowed 2 days ago at 1.75" (2.25" on the slope) and there is already multiple spots around 2.5".

I'm getting a bit tired of the having only 2 sprinklers and 3x50' hoses and a 25' hose. It's taking quite a bit longer (25 min each spot, 5-10 min reset in between), but I think, much more efficient than before due to wind issues.

East side

East side 2

Backyard looking West

Backyard looking East

West side strip


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Watering is challenge in a reno. Even with in ground irrigation, I still stressed about coverage.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Your reno is looking really nice! Keep on doing what you're doing. Coverage looks tight. You are showing us how it's done. My work keeps me nuts April-August, so I never really find time to do a reno, but you're thread really gives me the itch! I will continue to follow!


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

g-man said:


> Watering is challenge in a reno. Even with in ground irrigation, I still stressed about coverage.


I've been trying to switch to a 2 a day watering, but I'm worried I'm either giving too much or not enough :evil:. It's worse now, as I want to keep everything "perfectly" moist without over watering for the urea.



Chris LI said:


> Your reno is looking really nice! Keep on doing what you're doing. Coverage looks tight. You are showing us how it's done. My work keeps me nuts April-August, so I never really find time to do a reno, but you're thread really gives me the itch! I will continue to follow!


Thanks for that. I am lucky that I have the time to do all of this. I tend to make things a lot harder than they need to be and probably could have done all the prep in half the time :lol:. Also, doing a overseed in the front and creating around 450 sq ft of new beds and extending current beds (neither of which I have finished), made everything much more complicated. Although the overseed has gone unexpectedly well, the triv is coming back hard, so it seems I will have to do a reno on the front next year.

Plus, I couldn't have possibly have figured any of this out without the advice from all of y'all on this forum. Couldn't have done this without the help. *** kissing over. :spiteful:


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Reno - 26 DAS, 19 DAG

I just watered once today, but deeply. All I did was mow the west side strip down to 1.25".



Plan is to mow again Monday, drop fert on Fridays, and water 1-2 times daily.

Overseed - 33 DAS, 25 DAG

Mowed at 1.25" and put down .2lb N/M (urea) and watered in. Filling in nicely, although I am finding more Triv every time I go out front. Keeping the height at 1.25" til October and fert every Saturday. Water once daily and heavy twice a week.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Three quick questions.

Can I drop 3lbs/M of Milo now (in between my weekly urea apps) for the FE and P? I don't want to apply to much N, but I need to get some P and FE down as I haven't gotten any down since seed down. 
How often can I mow? I'd like to try and start mowing at 1.25", but I don't want to cut more than 1/3. 
With my second Tenacity application, should I apply pre or post and at 4oz/acre or 8oz/acre? I've applied 8oz/acre so far this year.

Thanks all.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Not sure about milo in between urea. I've never done it. When I mow new grass I tend to stick to the 1/3 rule more than with mature grass. I wouldn't think you would need to be mowing more than twice a week. I'm mowing once right now.

It's looking very good.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@pennstater2005 thanks m8. How was the camp out? Hope the squitos were friendly and stayed away. As of today (possible 2nd mow), it looks like every 4 days will be good to cut the lawn, so the areas growing far faster than others, are cut safely.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Camp out was good. I don't sleep in tents do I watched Notre Dame lose to Georgia which was just great.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

30DAS, 23DAG
Is a fungicide at this time of year warranted? Lows are going to below 60 in a week and humidity is averaging out to about 61%. I am down to once a day watering. I can put propiconazole (bayer advances) and/or azoxy (disease ex) if needed.

Thanks in advance all.

Will update reno progress tonight.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

TreyDoc said:


> Is a fungicide at this time of year warranted? Lows are going to below 60 in a week and humidity is averaging out to about 61%. I am down to once a day watering. I can put propiconazole (bayer advances) and/or azoxy (disease ex) if needed.
> 
> Thanks in advance all.
> 
> Will update reno progress tonight.


I just applied one as I am dealing with a bit of rust.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@pennstater2005 @g-man and anyone else. Could you guys help with fungus ID? I know there's rust, but not sure if the rest is leaf spot, or a combo of things. Thanks all.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

TreyDoc said:


> @pennstater2005 @g-man and anyone else. Could you guys help with fungus ID? I know there's rust, but not sure if the rest is leaf spot, or a combo of things. Thanks all.


Looks like some red thread as well.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

27DAG/34DAS

A lot has happened in the last week. I have not had much time at all to spend on the lawn and have not been home to water 2 of the days. The lawn has progressed pretty well, although it hasn't been getting as much water as I would prefer over the past week. Regardless, it is coming in pretty well and I have mowed three times now and fertilized twice.

I am starting to get a bit of rust in the reno and a lot of light green spots. I thought it may be drought stress, then rust (a partial cause), then figured it may be newer seedlings showing themselves as the mature ones darken up, and now I'm pondering that it might be a bit of all of them along with grub damage. I had put down some Complete Insect Killer around seed down, but I'm not sure if it took. While trying to check/remove Triv in the front overseed, I pulled up a patch of Triv. In a 7"x5" area, there were 13 big ole grubs. I'm thinking that they may be causing the stress on the grass and causing the fungal diseases in the post above to become so prevalent in the overseed. If the C.I.K didn't work in the front, not sure how to check if it worked in the reno. Not exactly sure what to do.

I mowed yesterday at 1.75". Today, I applied .2lbs N/M of AMS to reno and did an extra long (.5") watering. Lots of purslane and some other weeds coming up, but I am going to hold off on the Tenacity for a few days, to give the newer grass a bit more time.

I decided not to put Azoxy down at all and scrap anything else on the overseed. I will just reno next year. There's just too much that needs fixing in the front.

Any suggestions on if I should still put Azoxy of Propiconazole, iron, Dylox, and anything else you can recommend. Thanks in advance.















Bedroom Pictures


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

I put down bayer advanced 24 hr grub killer down. It says it worked in 24 hrs. I have read it takes five days. Also be sure to water in per the directions. I did see quite a few grubs come up after a day or so. I am not sure if it kills all of the grubs. Grub ex does not work at this time of year. I had a lot of grubs throughout my yard this year. They killed part of my Reno from last fall. I was not pleased. I plan to put grub ex down next year and repair some of the damaged spots.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Looking great! I've got light spots and a touch of rust as well. I'm just sticking with the light urea getting it ready for bed soon.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@Mrotatori I will have to put some down along with some Imidacloprid to help with the European crane flies. I guess that it didn't stick before, so I'm gonna have to try again.

@pennstater2005 thanks man! Yeah, I feel bad for the neighbor as his yard has been taken over by rust. Thankfully, I'm only seeing small amounts at the border to his lawn in the reno.

I gotta kill the crane flies and grubs. Going to add some Milo, thinking .18N/M, to the reno. Im hoping that won't be too much N, but I want to nip the rust now, especially if I can w/o fungicides. Then I can get some compost down, Tenacity sprayed, a few more apps of urea/AMS, and a few mows. Should I be planning on putting a pre em down this year? Or is it too late? Going to spot treat as much Triv as possible (again) in the front for next years reno.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@g-man can I apply Propiconazole (BioAdvanced) and/or azoxystrobin (disease ex) and be fine to spray Tenacity in a few days?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Preventive?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

g-man said:


> Preventive?


Yes and no. There's a few spots of rust near property line and 2 small areas of leaf spot.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Then do both and don't do the tenacity.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

38DAS/31DAG

Thank you @g-man for the advice. I applied the curative rate of Disease Ex (Azoxystrobin) to the reno on Wednesday the 2nd. Hopefully got it down in time as I noticed quite a bit more affected areas. 99% of the areas, are late germinators that haven't opened up/gotten dark green and started tillering. The other 1% is in the areas where the seed bunched up after the heavy rains. Going to thin those areas out next spring by plugging (or any other solutions recommended). Not sure how I missed the disease before. Today is humid, wet, overcast, and 75F. Glad I got the fungicide down yesterday.

I'm going to suspend nitrogen for at least 10 days(?), wait at least 10 days for Tenacity, and suspend mowing for a bit (any recommendations on how long is greatly appreciated).

The maturest grass is growing well, with about 40-50% of the lawn at least 2.75". I figure I can let it grow about 1/2" before cutting to 2.25" or wait even longer for the fungicide till it hits 3.9" to cut it back to 2.75". Any advice on this is always greatly appreciated.

Any thoughts on a pre-m for this fall? Annua already seems to be everywhere along with some Triv.

Thanks all.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

@TreyDoc

Did you get the pre m down?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> @TreyDoc
> 
> Did you get the pre m down?


Nope. We've had nothing but straight rain since Thursday night, plus I haven't had any time for the lawn. I was planning on putting something down, but the Annua is everywhere along with a ton of weeds. Not sure if I should still put some prodiamine or dythiopyr down. I'm hoping to at least get a Tenacity spray in, but I may hold it, as the disease is still hanging around. I am hoping the Disease Ex I put down will help stem the disease, but there a few new areas popping up (although, where the Azoxy got into the neighbors yard, you can see the huge difference as his leaf spot has turned into green grass :lol: ), along with a ton of powdery mildew. I'm sure not mowing and the constant wet, humid, and overcast days haven't helped the situation either. Hoping to mow tomorrow and do some hand weeding.

42DAS/35DAG

The healthy areas are coming in pretty well:




Line where Azoxy helped neighbors lawn. Also, you can see long area where leaf spot is present.



New areas:









Old Areas:


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@pennstater2005 , do you think putting prodiamine down now would still be beneficial?


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

I have a lot of that same yellowing in my new grass. Prodiamine after seeding recommendation (I think they reference over seeding) is not to be done until 60 days after seed application. Too early and you can stunt new seedling growth.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> I have a lot of that same yellowing in my new grass. Prodiamine after seeding recommendation (I think they reference over seeding) is not to be done until 60 days after seed application. Too early and you can stunt new seedling growth.


I'll have to wait a couple of weeks then. Can't find any info on Dimension other than wait till secondary roots are in. I'm assuming that's the same timeframe then. I'll get the Tenacity down on Thursday and hopefully there will be enough runoff to act as a temporary pre emergent until I can toss some prodiamine down.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

40DAG

Lawn is doing well in most areas. Gave .28lbs N/M yesterday. Changed mowing height to 2.25" for most of lawn and 2.75" for the shady/quick growing areas. Had to move the hoc up, as the bumps and castings are getting kind of crazy. Planning on aerating and possibly lawn raking heavy in the spring and adding a small amount of sand, soil, and compost mix to get to some resemblance of smooth and level. Going to spray some Tenacity at 4oz/A with 1.5TBS AMS/Gal. Might put some Barricade down in 12 days, but I don't know if it is going to be worth it this late.

The areas with melting out are not spreading (that I can tell), but are still on a decline. Didn't expect it to heal up and go back to normal, but I'm still rooting (  ) for a good recovery. The powdery mildew has invaded the super shady side. Time to see if any of the shade resistant cultivars will shine. If not, I'll throw some TTTF there in the spring.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

That is coming along really well. Has the yellowing grown out?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> That is coming along really well. Has the yellowing grown out?


Somewhat. There are 2 areas that are turning red/black, finishing their death spiral. The rest seems to be coming along much better than that, but still yellow and wilted. Nowhere near as bad as my neighbors' lawns (most of which had their lawns sprayed with fungicide on Friday) where large sections are near death. No more spreading that I can tell, but it does seem like the whole lawn is stressed. My wife noticed this morning and I can't seem to get it out of my head.

Instead of tenacity today, I gave it a long deep soak to see if that'll help along with the urea from two days ago. Not the best for keeping the fungus at bay, but not sure what else to do. Just have to wait a few days to see.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@TreyDoc Hey how is this lawn doing in 2020?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

My apologies, this turned into a SUPER LONG POST!

It's been a minute! I've been delaying this, as my frustration has built. Had a crazy past 6 months, but thankfully everything seems to be leveling out.

To fill in the gap, I kept mowing until the grass grew no more. I did get a half dose prodiamine app down on the 2nd of November. Don't think it was enough, there was too much rain, or I put it down too late as the lawn is now dominated in many areas with annua and some of my favorites, Triv, and some other badies. The main areas of unwanteds, is where the diseased KBG ended up dying and can't seem to get a foothold. There ended up being quite a bit of dead areas followed by junk stuff filling in. Leaf spot is back and I'm not sure if I will throw some Disease Ex, spray some Azoxy (or any other recommendations as 10% of at DMO is still going on for fungicides), or just let it go to save some $. I would like to treat, as I need to fertilize the grass that refuses to grow (nearly all) and specifically the grass that still is lying vertically (about half of the good grass).

I did get some dithiopyr down at the half rate on 07Apr. Thought I'd switch up the Pre-M. That didn't work as I now have goose all over and crab popping up in spots.

The lawn is going to need some work and time. I'm fine with that. I sprayed Tenacity at the 4oz rate on 16May. Got some bleaching going on with the annuals, but not much on grass yet. Going to glypho as much undesirable perennial grass as possible after a second app of Tenacity. I'm going to continue to cut at 1.75" to 2.25" as I'm not cutting anything except Annua, broadleaf, and weedy grass, and continue bagging as everything is going to seed. Really think I should be applying some nitrogen soon, but would love some input on that.

I'm thinking of doing the front, as it is currently being overrun by Triv, Clover, and Red Thread and LS. Got a bit frustrated at the backyard and decided to take it out on the Triv in the front. 4 gal later and the thought occurred to me of how to fill it. So, I may end up doing the front on a new budget, with a TTTF/KBG 90/10%.

As always, any tips, suggestions, and/or criticisms are greatly appreciated.

@g-man just saw your post. Not what I had hoped to be posting this year, but it is what it is.

Here are some belated and current pics.

02Nov19





26Nov19 - You can see a lot of the LS damage.







30APR20







04May20







18May20







Fungus



Some Baddies

















Bonus. Front yard with some bluegrass that actually filled in.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Tenacity is kicking in and the bleaching is pretty nice to see. The grassy weeds are taking off, but bleaching has begun. The LS is starting to affect more of the bluegrass, especially the large areas where it is not growing or standing up. Going to throw down curative rate disease ex and thinking about some Milo, Lawn Food, or some AS. Not sure if the AS would make the disease ex less effective. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Also thinking of some K, as I just collected my soil sample yesterday, just to hopefully help out just a bit.

Did 4 1' squares to check for grubs and thankfully, had only 5 at the most. Going to skip grub ex this year (as it is also a bit late).

Going to try and mow the weeds and hopefully some of the grass once it stops drizzling today. It has rained non stop since the evening of the 20th and is going to start again tonight for 5 more days.

Any thoughts, suggestions, and/or criticisms are greatly appreciated.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

The lawn is finally starting to look like a lawn. The Tenacity along with the orthos, has killed or knocked back most of the junk. Gave .5N/K via Milo on the 27th along with Disease Ex at the curative rate. Grass has started to perk up and I'm actually cutting good grass now. Still have a few spots where it is all still horizontal.





Was going to spoon feed today, but the rain report is .96" rain over 3 hours tomorrow and decided to wait. I will be doing a second app in the back of Tenacity and will throw a small amount of AS in with it. Unfortunately, I've found 19 Triv spots and am a bit too shaky to wipe, so I used a little mist spray bottle on them. No browning at all yet.

I have been crazy busy getting the new garden beds done and we got all of the plants in three days ago. Looking forward to tomorrow to see how level I actually was able to get all the beds.

I've also been trying to get the front reno ready by spraying the nearly 20% Triv areas constantly. Only 2 spots are staying brown. All the rest have regrown and most are laying down like nothing happened. I think I might just blanket and get it over with. I am making a bean shaped garden to hide utilities and can get that done while farrowing. I'll make a new thread for that though.

Any suggestions and/or comments are always welcome.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Things are looking pretty good. Trying to keep the grass watered, but having a challenge of it with the current sprinklers. Compared to the neighbors, the lawns looking pretty well. Have 3 areas that just refuse to grow. Not sure what to do. I put pictures below.

A bit of fungal pressure, but not to much at the moment (knock on wood). 2 larger areas next to neighbor and on the hill to the storm sewer. Pictures below.

Clover and oxalis refuse to leave. 2 apps of Tenacity (4oz/acre) and 2 apps of CCO have slowed them down, but they refuse to die. I've started pulling as much ox as possible, but they seem to spring back up overnight.

Thinking about putting some more dithiopyr down, unfortunately it has nitrogen tied to it and with soil temp at 81F and air temps in the upper 90's, I really don't want to push. Planning on some prodiamine in the fall, but I'm a bit tired of constant weed pressure. We'll see.

Any comments, criticisms, suggestions are always appreciated.







Three areas that just have not grown. They stay low and grow horizontally, but have never stood up.







Larger areas where the grass is having trouble. They do almost connect as the last picture is just to the right of the one before it.


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## Baretta (Apr 8, 2019)

Having the same problem with Oxalis and clover. Would have hoped Tenacity would take care of that.


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