# Landscape Bed Chemical Treatments



## cnet24

I'd like to start treating my landscape beds myself- currently, I am dealing with some weed pressure, fast-growing ornamentals, and insect issues. What/when do you apply to control this? I'm looking for chemicals in line with what is used on the lawns, but safe for landscape beds.

Ex: Landscape pre-emergents (something better than Preen)
Insecticides/Fungicides safe for ornamentals
Post Emergent Herbicides (I'd assume glyphosate?)
PGR equivalent?

I've never done any research and a complete novice on this side of lawn care. Any plans are greatly appreciated!


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## Ecks from Tex

Pre-em - Snapshot granular 
Fungicides - whatever you do on your lawn just different rates

Post-em - Dismiss. And Glyphosate if necessary. Do not apply foliar


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## cnet24

Thanks @Ecks from Tex . Do you know of a PGR equivalent?


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## Ecks from Tex

cnet24 said:


> Thanks @Ecks from Tex . Do you know of a PGR equivalent?


For shrubs and ornamentals? I have been using Cutless .33G Landscape Growth Regulator but have been considering trying Atrimmec PGR because it's a foliar application which I prefer. Cutless seems to do very well on shrub regulation and will really cut down on your maintenance, but it's absorbed into the roots and I always have a hard time figuring out the application rate. Plus, I've been expiranmentint with PGR on roses because I really find that avoiding doing major pruning in June makes the plant healthier all summer. But in Feb they are trimmed basically to the hardwood. So with a foliage PGR I feel a little more in control of when growth regulation begins and how long it must last.

This is a work in progress and I'm still sort of in the research phase on Atrimmec.


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## cnet24

@Ecks from Tex I did an application of Atrimmec yesterday on some boxwoods and Holly. I applied at 2oz/gallon and essentially sprayed to make all leaves wet.


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## Greendoc

Ecks from Tex said:


> cnet24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks @Ecks from Tex . Do you know of a PGR equivalent?
> 
> 
> 
> For shrubs and ornamentals? I have been using Cutless .33G Landscape Growth Regulator but have been considering trying Atrimmec PGR because it's a foliar application which I prefer. Cutless seems to do very well on shrub regulation and will really cut down on your maintenance, but it's absorbed into the roots and I always have a hard time figuring out the application rate. Plus, I've been expiranmentint with PGR on roses because I really find that avoiding doing major pruning in June makes the plant healthier all summer. But in Feb they are trimmed basically to the hardwood. So with a foliage PGR I feel a little more in control of when growth regulation begins and how long it must last.
> 
> This is a work in progress and I'm still sort of in the research phase on Atrimmec.
Click to expand...

Cutless acts by getting involved with Gibberelic Acid, much like how Trinexepac does in grass. Atrimmec controls growth by killing buds and stopping apical dominance. Hedges treated with Atrimmec act by first showing yellowed and killed shoots, then acting as if they were trimmed. Atrimmec affects plants as if they were constantly cut and trimmed. Cutless reduces length of shoots, but does not kill them. I would not apply Atrimmec to roses.


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## Ecks from Tex

Greendoc said:


> Ecks from Tex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cnet24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks @Ecks from Tex . Do you know of a PGR equivalent?
> 
> 
> 
> For shrubs and ornamentals? I have been using Cutless .33G Landscape Growth Regulator but have been considering trying Atrimmec PGR because it's a foliar application which I prefer. Cutless seems to do very well on shrub regulation and will really cut down on your maintenance, but it's absorbed into the roots and I always have a hard time figuring out the application rate. Plus, I've been expiranmentint with PGR on roses because I really find that avoiding doing major pruning in June makes the plant healthier all summer. But in Feb they are trimmed basically to the hardwood. So with a foliage PGR I feel a little more in control of when growth regulation begins and how long it must last.
> 
> This is a work in progress and I'm still sort of in the research phase on Atrimmec.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cutless acts by getting involved with Gibberelic Acid, much like how Trinexepac does in grass. Atrimmec controls growth by killing buds and stopping apical dominance. Hedges treated with Atrimmec act by first showing yellowed and killed shoots, then acting as if they were trimmed. Atrimmec affects plants as if they were constantly cut and trimmed. Cutless reduces length of shoots, but does not kill them. I would not apply Atrimmec to roses.
Click to expand...

Definitely not applying attrimmec to roses, seeing as from what I've read it is likely to discourage blooms entirely.

I've got about 5-6 different shrubs im interested in regulating. Been researching it heavily. I have a lot of asian jasmine groundcover, where the root systems are scattered and not easily located. For that, I need something with a foliar application, which is why I've been researching attrimmec.

All in all, I definitely prefer the Cutless (or PGRs with similar modes of action) because it is from the mode of PGR that is a gibberelic inhibitor/blocker. That mode of action may block shoots and upward growth, but it also encourages thicker growth, drought resistance, and disease resistance. I have two problems, though. First being that I need a PGR that can perform with foliar application, and cutless is only granular. I researched other SePro alternatives like topfloor, etc., but their labels just did not seem to match my application needs. My second problem is that I do not think Cutless will work well on my roses, but could be 100% wrong on that one.

The farther down the rabbit hole I go, I start running into greenhouse PGRs like B-Nine and A-Rest, which seem interesting for flower pots and possibly even my roses.

Not sure, I honestly started just writing a summary of it so I could get it all straight. Probably will post it on here so other's can benefit from it as well once I'm done.


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## Ecks from Tex

cnet24 said:


> @Ecks from Tex I did an application of Atrimmec yesterday on some boxwoods and Holly. I applied at 2oz/gallon and essentially sprayed to make all leaves wet.


Interesting! Let me know how it goes. With the boxwoods, cutless is stellar. But attrimmec is 50% cheaper and could achieve a similar result on those hardwood shrubs, so let me know how it progresses. I've very interested in the first 2-3 weeks; maybe photos?

But like @Greendoc said, use caution with attrimec. It is a chemical pincher. Pinching is just the greenhouse term for pruning, which is traditionally done "mechanically" ie, by hand or with a tool. Attrimec does the exact same thing chemically.


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## Darrell

Fascinating.

Have you used PGRs on annuals or perennials? I love coleus. This time of year they are getting too tall and going to seed. Could you use a PGR when an annual achieves its desired height?


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## Ecks from Tex

Darrell said:


> Fascinating.
> 
> Have you used PGRs on annuals or perennials?


Perennials but PGRs actually were used early on for annuals and are widely used for annuals today. It's by far their most popular use.



> I love coleus. This time of year they are getting too tall and going to seed. Could you use a PGR when an annual achieves its desired height?


Yes. Growers in Nurseries use PGR to regulate plant height and to delay flower blooms so that plants bought at the store don't bloom until the consumer gets them home. But you have to find the right PGR, which in that world is extremely complicated. I have been doing a write up on it for my own personal use but will probably post it once done for others. I am finally starting to understand how it all works together. What I have learned is that often the best result is achieved when you tank mix PGRs with different modes of action to achieve the perfect result you are looking for in the flower.


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## Darrell

I would be most interested in that write up. I've ordered annual seeds from growers in the past. Their instructions include how to apply PGR's for those growers who will be sending their plants to retailers. I knew that these big companies did it, but for some reason it never crossed my mind to consider using a PGR in my landscape.

There's certainly a lot to think about. For annuals such as Coleus I would simply want to limit apical growth. For perennials and roses I would not want to affect their flower production. I'm sure it's difficult to walk that fine line between limiting mature height without limiting flower production.

Great info, Ecks.


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## Greendoc

For limiting height and vigor, the PGRs that work by interacting with Gibberelic acid are the best. Cutless 0.3 G is one. Then there is A-Rest, Bonzi, Sumagic, and their off patent equivalents. Broadleaf plants are extremely responsive to these products. Measuring the right dosage might become interesting. They also work differently if applied to the soil. Leaves are not highly absorbent, but roots take up the product readily.


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## Darrell

Granular vs foliar application...

Wouldn't a foliar app give you more control over target height? How do you control final height with a root application? I'm sure I'm making a novice assumption that you apply a foliar application when your plant reaches target height and it magically stops growing. I bet it's not that easy, is it?


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## Greendoc

Not that easy at all. You have to also figure out how long it takes between time of application and when that growth control kicks in. What the greenhouse growers do is a real art. They try out dosages on a few flats before doing the entire crop. They have also been doing it long enough to know how weather, humidity, and light levels affects response to the products. Granular application with Cutless is actually pretty predictable. Cut plants back to desired height. Apply and it is good. Foliar application gets funny because not all plants respond to foliar application equally. You also do not want the spray drifting onto plants that are sensitive. A handful of the Cutless under unruly shrubs is pretty manageable. I will apply Atrrimec on a buckwild hedge with no other plants near by.


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## Darrell

Does Cutless inhibit/affect flower production?


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## Greendoc

No. It mostly affects height. Attrimec is actually used to stop unwanted flowering and fruiting in trees because of its ability to kill flower buds.


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## Ecks from Tex

Greendoc said:


> For limiting height and vigor, the PGRs that work by interacting with Gibberelic acid are the best. Cutless 0.3 G is one. Then there is A-Rest, Bonzi, Sumagic, and their off patent equivalents. Broadleaf plants are extremely responsive to these products. Measuring the right dosage might become interesting. They also work differently if applied to the soil. Leaves are not highly absorbent, but roots take up the product readily.


Do you think I can regulate Asian Jasmin with Atrimmec?

I found this article discussing Cutless results in asiatic jasmine, but I truly don't understand how you get an effective application when you have the stuff as groundcover or growing on a fence somewhere. I have no idea where the root systems are or where they go.

On the other hand, this 1994 study found Atrimmec significantly reduced horizontal growth on asiatic jasmine.

Really not a lot of literature out there on how these growth regulators work in landscaping. Which is why I like Cutless so much.


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## Ecks from Tex

Darrell said:


> Granular vs foliar application...
> 
> Wouldn't a foliar app give you more control over target height? How do you control final height with a root application? I'm sure I'm making a novice assumption that you apply a foliar application when your plant reaches target height and it magically stops growing. I bet it's not that easy, is it?


Cutless granular is hands down the best option for anyone wanting to control basic woody ornamentals, even flowering ornamentals, who does not have experience in PGRs. I can attest the rest of the PGRs are pretty complicated and truly an art once you start using them off the lawn. You have to test on small samples first because you truly never know what the effects will be for most plants that are not specifically labeled.


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## Greendoc

Ecks from Tex said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> For limiting height and vigor, the PGRs that work by interacting with Gibberelic acid are the best. Cutless 0.3 G is one. Then there is A-Rest, Bonzi, Sumagic, and their off patent equivalents. Broadleaf plants are extremely responsive to these products. Measuring the right dosage might become interesting. They also work differently if applied to the soil. Leaves are not highly absorbent, but roots take up the product readily.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think I can regulate Asian Jasmin with Atrimmec?
> 
> I found this article discussing Cutless results in asiatic jasmine, but I truly don't understand how you get an effective application when you have the stuff as groundcover or growing on a fence somewhere. I have no idea where the root systems are or where they go.
> 
> On the other hand, this 1994 study found Atrimmec significantly reduced horizontal growth on asiatic jasmine.
> 
> Really not a lot of literature out there on how these growth regulators work in landscaping. Which is why I like Cutless so much.
Click to expand...

Atrmmec will stop growth for sure. The way I use it is to cut back the unruly plant/hedge/shrub to desired size, then I spray. When the bud kill occurs, the plant is stopped at that height and size.


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## Ecks from Tex

Greendoc said:


> Ecks from Tex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> For limiting height and vigor, the PGRs that work by interacting with Gibberelic acid are the best. Cutless 0.3 G is one. Then there is A-Rest, Bonzi, Sumagic, and their off patent equivalents. Broadleaf plants are extremely responsive to these products. Measuring the right dosage might become interesting. They also work differently if applied to the soil. Leaves are not highly absorbent, but roots take up the product readily.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think I can regulate Asian Jasmin with Atrimmec?
> 
> I found this article discussing Cutless results in asiatic jasmine, but I truly don't understand how you get an effective application when you have the stuff as groundcover or growing on a fence somewhere. I have no idea where the root systems are or where they go.
> 
> On the other hand, this 1994 study found Atrimmec significantly reduced horizontal growth on asiatic jasmine.
> 
> Really not a lot of literature out there on how these growth regulators work in landscaping. Which is why I like Cutless so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Atrmmec will stop growth for sure. The way I use it is to cut back the unruly plant/hedge/shrub to desired size, then I spray. When the bud kill occurs, the plant is stopped at that height and size.
Click to expand...

I'm going to get some and try it. I just want to regulate my groundcover so I don't have to trim it so often.

Looks like I will have Cutless for the beds, Atrimmec for the groundcover, and then something like Configure/A-Rest/Bonzi, Sumagic, B-Nine, etc. (GA Inhibitors) for any specialty flowering or plant applications.


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## Greendoc

Atrimmec has been my best friend for jackwagons that want hedges 8 ft tall and hundreds of feet long.


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## Darrell

Cool way they used a combo PGR for those petunias.

https://youtu.be/rLS0Bqf_Q28


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## cnet24

@Greendoc will Atrimmec cause lateral growth? I'm using it to spray some Holly shrubs that have grown a little out of control the past two years. I cut them back and left some small holes and hoping they will fill in.

Appreciate all of your responses on this forum. I really think your perspectives provide some great info here.


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## Greendoc

It will cause lateral growth. Same like how pruning the tips regularly causes lateral growth. I use it especially when a hedge reacts to being trimmed by looking thin. The Atrimmec makes the hedge thicken up. The non chemical way is to constantly trim.


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## SCGrassMan

@Ecks from Tex , @Greendoc - couple of quick questions as I have a client that needs some shrubbery and bed help. The Snapshot, is that a 1,2 or 4 times a year application?

Also, for a foliar feeder for a variety of shrubs, like Boxwoods and the like, what do you like?

How about for insect control on boxwoods? They have some sort of issue going on where little bits of them turn yellow and die off. Looks like spider mites or something similar.

Thanks guys!


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## Greendoc

That is a 1 x a year application. However, I do not personally use Snapshot. Do not recommend it either unless it can be watered in immediately. The Trifluralin that is part of the preemergent herbicide will evaporate in the sun unless it is watered in. I prefer applying the same Prodiamine used for lawns mixed with Gallery DF. Lasts longer than Snapshot as well.

For plants, my foliar looks like 20-20-20 soluble+FEature. Yes, FEature is for shrubs and ornamentals too. Keeps green foliage green even in more challenging soils.

Get a positive ID on what is damaging the Boxwoods. What kills mites does not kill insects and visa versa. in the old days, I would spray it with now banned insecticides that worked equally well on both insects and mites. Now products are less toxic and more selective.


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## SCGrassMan

Greendoc said:


> That is a 1 x a year application. However, I do not personally use Snapshot. Do not recommend it either unless it can be watered in immediately. The Trifluralin that is part of the preemergent herbicide will evaporate in the sun unless it is watered in. I prefer applying the same Prodiamine used for lawns mixed with Gallery DF. Lasts longer than Snapshot as well.
> 
> For plants, my foliar looks like 20-20-20 soluble+FEature. Yes, FEature is for shrubs and ornamentals too. Keeps green foliage green even in more challenging soils.
> 
> Get a positive ID on what is damaging the Boxwoods. What kills mites does not kill insects and visa versa. in the old days, I would spray it with now banned insecticides that worked equally well on both insects and mites. Now products are less toxic and more selective.


Appreciate it, thanks!  Always very helpful.


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## Ecks from Tex

SCGrassMan said:


> @Ecks from Tex , @Greendoc - couple of quick questions as I have a client that needs some shrubbery and bed help. The Snapshot, is that a 1,2 or 4 times a year application?
> 
> Also, for a foliar feeder for a variety of shrubs, like Boxwoods and the like, what do you like?
> 
> How about for insect control on boxwoods? They have some sort of issue going on where little bits of them turn yellow and die off. Looks like spider mites or something similar.
> 
> Thanks guys!


Like Greendoc said, it must be watered in. I don't have a commercial operation like he does, so I prefer it. I have found certain flowering plants in my landscape are sensitive to prodiamine and dithiropyr, which is what led me to a landscape-oriented pre-em that is rated for more woody ornamentals and flowering plants.

You can find snapshot in smaller quantities at Seed Ranch's website. Cheaper cost of entry.

The one thing I have been interested in trying is Freehand Herbicde. It is rated as a pre-emergent for sedges, and given its ingredient list I think it will work. Next one I buy will be Freehand.

And on foliar fertilizer - I use Southern Ag 20-20-20 on everything, including annual flowers. It is an excellent blend of primary nutrients and micronutrients. All of these 20-20-20 fertilizers are a knockoff of old Peters General Purpose 20-20-20. But there's a reason the blend is so widely copied, because it gets results across the board.


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## Greendoc

Freehand can be super harsh on some plants. More so than Prodiamine. Other thing I use in rotation with Prodiamine is Ronstar. Ronstar is legal and labeled for landscape areas. Of course, label is followed including the direction that I am to water in the application immediately.

20-20-20 is familiar to nurseries, greenhouses, and even golf guys. It is a product that delivers results without tricks, hacks or caveats. I am one of the few lawn guys in the US that even uses it and I get the results from it.


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## SCGrassMan

Do yall have links for some of these things? I found snapshot and prodiamine and gallery, but not having much luck on FEature. Also I found some 20-20-20 liquid fert but if you have a brand you like and or a link on DoMyOwn that would be great!


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## Greendoc

http://www.agrian.com/labelcenter/results.cfm?quicksearch=FEATURE 6-0-0I think just about all 20-20-20 solubles are copies of the Peters General Purpose. Only difference is that you do not pay the Peters price.


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## Ecks from Tex

Southern Ag 20-20-20 https://www.domyown.com/southern-ag-202020-soluble-fertilizer-p-8943.html


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## Ecks from Tex

Snapshot 10 lb bag https://www.seedranch.com/Snapshot-2-5-TG-Pre-Emergent-Herbicide-10-Lbs-p/snapshot-tg-10-lbs.htm


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## Ecks from Tex

Greendoc said:


> Freehand can be super harsh on some plants. More so than Prodiamine. Other thing I use in rotation with Prodiamine is Ronstar. Ronstar is legal and labeled for landscape areas. Of course, label is followed including the direction that I am to water in the application immediately.
> 
> 20-20-20 is familiar to nurseries, greenhouses, and even golf guys. It is a product that delivers results without tricks, hacks or caveats. I am one of the few lawn guys in the US that even uses it and I get the results from it.


That's what I was concerned about with freehand. I guess not a good option for me


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## SCGrassMan

Greendoc said:


> http://www.agrian.com/labelcenter/results.cfm?quicksearch=FEATURE 6-0-0I think just about all 20-20-20 solubles are copies of the Peters General Purpose. Only difference is that you do not pay the Peters price.


Where can I buy it though?


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## SCGrassMan

Ecks from Tex said:


> Snapshot 10 lb bag https://www.seedranch.com/Snapshot-2-5-TG-Pre-Emergent-Herbicide-10-Lbs-p/snapshot-tg-10-lbs.htm


Thanks. I have 12,000 Sq Ft of beds to treat, so I'll need a 50 lbs bag 

Appreciate yall both. Always super helpful.


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## Ecks from Tex

SCGrassMan said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.agrian.com/labelcenter/results.cfm?quicksearch=FEATURE 6-0-0I think just about all 20-20-20 solubles are copies of the Peters General Purpose. Only difference is that you do not pay the Peters price.
> 
> 
> 
> Where can I buy it though?
Click to expand...

Amazon/Ebay

https://www.amazon.com/Feature-6-0-0-Water-Soluble-Micronutrients/dp/B076TFPB1Z

It's funny because I actually do the same thing as Greendoc except I've been tank mixing the actual individual ingredients such as sulfur and magnesium. I really don't know why because Feature is easier


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## Greendoc

SCGrassMan said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.agrian.com/labelcenter/results.cfm?quicksearch=FEATURE 6-0-0I think just about all 20-20-20 solubles are copies of the Peters General Purpose. Only difference is that you do not pay the Peters price.
> 
> 
> 
> Where can I buy it though?
Click to expand...

EPesthero is where everyone gets it from if they are not commercial and not near an Agrium branch that sells it. I have the good fortune of having an Agrium branch on the island that supplies chemicals and fertilizers to the golf courses.


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## SCGrassMan

Greendoc said:


> SCGrassMan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.agrian.com/labelcenter/results.cfm?quicksearch=FEATURE 6-0-0I think just about all 20-20-20 solubles are copies of the Peters General Purpose. Only difference is that you do not pay the Peters price.
> 
> 
> 
> Where can I buy it though?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> EPesthero is where everyone gets it from if they are not commercial and not near an Agrium branch that sells it. I have the good fortune of having an Agrium branch on the island that supplies chemicals and fertilizers to the golf courses.
Click to expand...

So do ya'll tank mix 20^3, and FEature and apply foliar to shrubs and whatnot?


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## Greendoc

I do. My mix rates comes out to 3 lb of each per 100 gallons of mix.


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## SCGrassMan

Greendoc said:


> I do. My mix rates comes out to 3 lb of each per 100 gallons of mix.


Us mere mortals have to mix 4 gallons at a time  Should I use my "Standard" 110 degree TeeJet mister? Any recommendations about watering or not watering before or after?


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## Greendoc

The small volume mixes are about 2 teaspoons of the powders per gallon. use the standard 110 TeeJet tips and never to plants that are in need of water. Water before or else the plants may scorch. Keep this off of plants in bloom. The Iron will leave brown spots in the flowers.


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## SCGrassMan

Excellent dude. Thanks!


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## Ecks from Tex

SCGrassMan said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SCGrassMan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where can I buy it though?
> 
> 
> 
> EPesthero is where everyone gets it from if they are not commercial and not near an Agrium branch that sells it. I have the good fortune of having an Agrium branch on the island that supplies chemicals and fertilizers to the golf courses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So do ya'll tank mix 20^3, and FEature and apply foliar to shrubs and whatnot?
Click to expand...

yep and then throw 'er down

sometimes i'll mix in some humic products if i am feeling frisky

i also am not afraid at all to mix above the tsp rate for 20-20-20 (within reason). I usually do a rate of 1 tablespoon per gallon though.


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## cnet24

So if I am reading this correctly, technically I could mix in PGR (atrimmec), 20-20-20 water-soluble fert, and FEature together and spray as one application? I know PGR should be applied right after the hedges are trimmed, so I would apply at the beginning of the year right as my hollys and boxwoods are showing first signs of new growth?


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## Ecks from Tex

cnet24 said:


> So if I am reading this correctly, technically I could mix in PGR (atrimmec), 20-20-20 water-soluble fert, and FEature together and spray as one application? I know PGR should be applied right after the hedges are trimmed, so I would apply at the beginning of the year right as my hollys and boxwoods are showing first signs of new growth?


Negative. I am pretty sure it is not a good idea to mix attrimec with fertilizer. I think the label may advise against that. Could be wrong though.

I would apply the PGR when the growth reaches the expansion you want,, which could be at start of year or could be mid-spring, just depending on your preference. Then trim and apply. The only caution would be not to apply PGR too late in the season.


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