# Flooding basement-Waterguard recommended



## Keepin It Reel (Feb 20, 2019)

We are looking to purchase a new basement home and are currently under contract. We are in the due diligence period and had a foundation specialist scheduled to view a few concerns we had this morning. Thankfully we had a really bad thunderstorm last night and when we arrived at the home today the basement was flooded. We notified the listing agent and they had people on site right away to address the issue.

Apparently the water is entering the house through the front wall that is completely underground. The backside of the basement is a full walkout. There are several different sites for water intrusion and they are wanting to install a Waterguard system which is essentially a full french drain with a sump pump. My concern is this approach still allows and promotes water entering the house but it's the only way to address the problem for this house.

Does anyone have any experience with the Waterguard system?


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

I know nothing about the system but from what you explained so far I would not buy that house.From what you explained it seems like the basement could be living space. Would you be comfortable living down there? Just seems like it will be a constant headache.


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## Babaganoosh (Apr 21, 2019)

M32075 said:


> I know nothing about the system but from what you explained so far I would not buy that house.From what you explained it seems like the basement could be living space. Would you be comfortable living down there? Just seems like it will be a constant headache.


Living space or not. I'd also advise to skip this particular house.


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

It can be waterproofed they've just got the wrong contractor. Anything can be done for the right price.....wether that will happen or not I would think would be dependant on the price you get on the house and what concessions will be made.

My second thought on this is that this isn't anything new and the sellers are well aware of this. This isn't the first time that it's rained hard there. What else are they hiding?


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## Tadow781 (Oct 11, 2019)

Skip the house or be prepared to dig down to the foundation. It's usually an easy dig because of the sand backfill, but it likes to cave in after a certain depth. But getting to the drain tile and correcting any issues there might be necessary. I built a house and canned my contractor after many oversights. I had to dig out my foundation to install the XPS foam board, but I only went to frost depth and the local code enforcer was cool with it considering the situation.

Like always, check surrounding slope and make sure the lawn drains away. My old house had one downspout that gave me problems froze up once, fell off another time, and both those times I would get water in that corner. My new house has a big basement window that never got trimmed out or sealed up properly from the outside, with a driving rain can get water through and into the basement. But this is not the basement or drain tiles problem, this is a design problem and needs to be fixed on the OUTSIDE of the house by diverting water away from the house.

Just like the lawn, right way and ok ways. I don't know anything about the French drains other than they are interior systems and I get your concerns about purposely bringing water into the house to get it back out.


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

As a builder myself I can tell you that the point of concern (& repair) would be to stop the water intrusion through the concrete wall, not to collect it once it comes in. There are ways to do that - albeit not cheap - but it keeps the moisture from entering the home, not to mention the furtherance of any possible weakening of that wall (the slab acts as a stabilizer on the vertical walls. That wall would require a much differently designed footing if built w/o a slab from the get-go). 
The solution they're recommending, though not familiar with that particular brand, is a general solution used throughout the country on crawl spaces and/or basement homes. It essentially requires a channel to be dug up along the inside perimeter of the basement, filled with gravel, and sloped down to a collection point - where it gets pumped back outside. That channel will forever have to remain open and visible.. no floor covering, etc. And the moisture in the room will have to be dealt with by a dehumidifier.
The best solution would require excavating around the exterior of the house down to the footing, repairing the water entry points, and adding a waterproofing membrane system (not just tar, but a physical corrugated membrane that gets attached to the exterior walls that diverts the water down to a collection point on top of the footings, and out following grade). I use a system called J Drain but there are a few similar concept products out there. Here's a picture of what that would look like.

Best of luck!



EDIT: I see @Tadow781 has the same thoughts as me when it comes to dealing w this. He is a quicker typer though :lol:


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## Keepin It Reel (Feb 20, 2019)

Gilley11 said:


> It can be waterproofed they've just got the wrong contractor. Anything can be done for the right price.....wether that will happen or not I would think would be dependant on the price you get on the house and what concessions will be made.
> 
> My second thought on this is that this isn't anything new and the sellers are well aware of this. This isn't the first time that it's rained hard there. What else are they hiding?


The home is currently owned by a relocation company and the owners have moved to Florida for their jobs. When a relo company acquires a home they conduct very thorough inspections to ensure they're not buying a money pit themselves. I have reviewed all the inspection reports they have on file.

2 years ago the basement leaked and the owners filed the claim against their insurance policy. When we were looking for homeowners insurance our broker was able to see the previous claim. At the time they said the water intrusion came from clogged gutters and the water backed up and seeped into the home.

Here we are 2 years later and the home has been vacant, gutters full again, and after a massive rain the basement floods again. This time a reputable foundation company came out to assess the situation and he advised me it'll be atleast $25k to correct the problem and that doesn't address the new flooring, drywall that must be cut out, and water clean up.

His proposal was to install a french drain system in front of the home to catch as much water as possible and the entire perimeter of the home around the basements footer will have their Waterguard drain system installed with a sump pump to catch any water that may enter.

Once this system is installed you can completely finish the room with drywall and flooring of your choice. None of this work is exposed and you'll never know it's there according to them. The entire remediation, correction, contractors involved etc..will likely exceed $50k and be filed against the owners current policy.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

MeanDean said:


> Once this system is installed you can completely finish the room with drywall and flooring of your choice. None of this work is exposed and you'll never know it's there according to them. The entire remediation, correction, contractors involved etc..will likely exceed $50k and be filed against the owners current policy.


If this is the case, I'm kinda in the camp that says let them fix it and then buy it knowing you have a house that is fixed.

If you pass on this house and buy a different one, it's less of a known quantity - will the second home's basement flood? If it does, it's on you. Versus buying a house that had a problem, was fixed correctly and shouldn't have future problems. Something to consider.


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## Keepin It Reel (Feb 20, 2019)

dfw_pilot said:


> MeanDean said:
> 
> 
> > Once this system is installed you can completely finish the room with drywall and flooring of your choice. None of this work is exposed and you'll never know it's there according to them. The entire remediation, correction, contractors involved etc..will likely exceed $50k and be filed against the owners current policy.
> ...


I totally agree. As long as they're willing to do it correctly and not cut corners we will proceed with the purchase of the home.

I guess the hardest part is finding reputable information on this stuff and people that have experienced it.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

@MeanDean

Here is a video worth watching before you make a final decision about fixing and buying this house:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K04hoNWFV0


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## Tadow781 (Oct 11, 2019)

I think one should consider is it a wet basement or a basement that gets wet under certain conditions. That's where if the gutters were clogged and overflowing, was there window wells that filled up? Things of that nature, because you can dig down and install foundation "solutions" all day long, but if your basement floods from the sky, the foundation walls are likely not the problem and will properly handle ground water just fine. If the basement drys out and is dry under normal conditions, I'd say the solution is keeping surface water away from the foundation i.e. proper grading and gutters, making sure window wells drain properly, etc.

Again, I finished a basement in a house I lived in for a couple years, never had any water intrusion. Then my gutters downspout extension froze once during a Michigan thaw period (snow melt from roof, hit frozen gutters and could get it away from the house)and also had the downspout extension fall off once and wouldn't ya kow it, water right in that corner where they were located. And a decent amount. Heck, I even saturated a portion of my unfinished basement wall by forgetting about a soaker hose. But once that was corrected, no more water and it all dried out perfectly fine. I even had my backyard flood one year to about 20' from the house, but no water in the house and I'd say that was saturated ground. Point is, when I did get water in the house, it wasn't a basement problem, it was the fact I didn't keep the surface water off the house. This was a block wall with none of the new foundation wall protections on the market today.

I guess if I had two solutions and one choice, one being keeping water away from the house and another taking care of the water after it's against the house, I'd choose the first option.

Tough call on a new purchase...good luck!


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## Keepin It Reel (Feb 20, 2019)

Tadow781 said:


> I think one should consider is it a wet basement or a basement that gets wet under certain conditions. That's where if the gutters were clogged and overflowing, was there window wells that filled up? Things of that nature, because you can dig down and install foundation "solutions" all day long, but if your basement floods from the sky, the foundation walls are likely not the problem and will properly handle ground water just fine. If the basement drys out and is dry under normal conditions, I'd say the solution is keeping surface water away from the foundation i.e. proper grading and gutters, making sure window wells drain properly, etc.
> 
> Again, I finished a basement in a house I lived in for a couple years, never had any water intrusion. Then my gutters downspout extension froze once during a Michigan thaw period (snow melt from roof, hit frozen gutters and could get it away from the house)and also had the downspout extension fall off once and wouldn't ya kow it, water right in that corner where they were located. And a decent amount. Heck, I even saturated a portion of my unfinished basement wall by forgetting about a soaker hose. But once that was corrected, no more water and it all dried out perfectly fine. I even had my backyard flood one year to about 20' from the house, but no water in the house and I'd say that was saturated ground. Point is, when I did get water in the house, it wasn't a basement problem, it was the fact I didn't keep the surface water off the house. This was a block wall with none of the new foundation wall protections on the market today.
> 
> ...


It's rained quite a bit over the past few weeks and we haven't noticed any issues with the basement. What happened Sunday night resulted in tornadoes for our area and really unusual storms. It was perfect timing considering our closing is coming up in a few weeks. I don't believe the wet basement is from typical rain otherwise we would have seen problems before now.

We just received the estimate from the foundation company and the total for repair/corrections only was $40k!


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

I just googled their solution and see how it works... they basically install a similar-acting system that I mentioned needing applied to the exterior wall and shift it to the interior, with a wall membrane that 'captures/directs' the water down the wall into the gutter that is installed at the edge of the slab.

Has it been determined why/how the water is making its way through? Is it seepage/percolation? Or are there cracks allowing water to come through the wall. I ask because if it's a crack/separation then that needs to be fixed from the exterior, if at all possible. Stop water intrusion. If it's percolation that means the cement walls are saturated with water to the point that they drain to the inside. (You can divert some of that water from the exterior but if it's good ol southern clay you have as backfill - very likely btw - it tends to hold water).

Lastly, the liquid water is one part of the problem, addressed by the drain system they're proposing, but then you'll have the gaseous water (humidity) that will required addressing. I would make sure to have that part addressed as well as you don't want the humidity buildup to cause drywall mold issues, etc. It seems like you really love the home and would prefer to buy it so don't let me scare you off, but at least you're going in this with your eyes wide open. Kudos to you for that.


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## Keepin It Reel (Feb 20, 2019)

corneliani said:


> I just googled their solution and see how it works... they basically install a similar-acting system that I mentioned needing applied to the exterior wall and shift it to the interior, with a wall membrane that 'captures/directs' the water down the wall into the gutter that is installed at the edge of the slab.
> 
> Has it been determined why/how the water is making its way through? Is it seepage/percolation? Or are there cracks allowing water to come through the wall. I ask because if it's a crack/separation then that needs to be fixed from the exterior, if at all possible. Stop water intrusion. If it's percolation that means the cement walls are saturated with water to the point that they drain to the inside. (You can divert some of that water from the exterior but if it's good ol southern clay you have as backfill - very likely btw - it tends to hold water).
> 
> Lastly, the liquid water is one part of the problem, addressed by the drain system they're proposing, but then you'll have the gaseous water (humidity) that will required addressing. I would make sure to have that part addressed as well as you don't want the humidity buildup to cause drywall mold issues, etc. It seems like you really love the home and would prefer to buy it so don't let me scare you off, but at least you're going in this with your eyes wide open. Kudos to you for that.


The drywall is coming down today or tomorrow to see if the foundation walls themselves are being compromised by nearby trees and signs of cracks. Currently they are saying the seepage is coming from the driveway and cracks around the foundation. The water is getting into the cracks and following the path of least resistance.

Their estimate does include a dehumidifier to keep things dry in addition to the full drainage system, sump pump, concrete lift in the garage using a spray in foam that expands, and some other things.

If the work is done correctly and comes with a solid guarantee then we are ok proceeding with the purchase. We understand basements can leak and there are viable solutions to remedy the issue. We just want peace of mind the work is done correctly.


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## Tadow781 (Oct 11, 2019)

I'd say, still even with cracks, water should not becoming through. Concrete cracks, grout shrinks, their is always going to be cracks or gaps in foundations to some degree and most do not leak because of them. I have multiple cracks that run vertical up my walls at the form seams and they don't leak. And my sump pump runs 24/7/365.

To cracks, I would say this, if you leave water sitting against your walls, they will leak at the cracks, but not because of the cracks.


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