# Too much seed during overseed?



## Dieseldan9 (Aug 18, 2020)

Massachusetts here just down 150 pounds of lesco prg/*** 80/20 mix over approx 20k

I have the itch to put down another 50 pounds concentrating on the thin areas.

Should I wait 4 weeks to see how it looks?

Approximately 700 of that was seeded from bare dirt.

Can u actually put down too much seed?


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## jtuber (Sep 15, 2020)

Too much seeds would overcrowd your grass, causing some of them to die out, just like weeds choking out your grass.


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## Dieseldan9 (Aug 18, 2020)

jtuber said:


> Too much seeds would overcrowd your grass, causing some of them to die out, just like weeds choking out your grass.


Do u think 10 pounds per thousand is too much?

My grass too most people was excellent so I was not thin before I am just looking to graduate to stage 3 in the loony bin 👍


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## wino_tim (Jan 3, 2020)

7.5# per M on an overseed of an already decently thick turfstand is a heavy amount, especially with 20% of that being KBG. That said, you can assume that relatively little of that KBG is going to germinate or establish.

If you have truly thin spots, throwing down a little more seed into them isn't the worst thing in the world, but I wouldn't do another full overseed. At a certain point you are wasting money, encouraging the grass to compete against itself (as @jtuber mentioned), and setting yourself up for disease problems next season.


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## jtuber (Sep 15, 2020)

Why dont you folow the seed company's recommendation?


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## samzone7a (Jul 14, 2020)

7.5 is almost full seeding range for most TTTF


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## Dieseldan9 (Aug 18, 2020)

jtuber said:


> Why dont you folow the seed company's recommendation?


I did the guy at siteone said 10 pounds thousand


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## Dieseldan9 (Aug 18, 2020)

wino_tim said:


> 7.5# per M on an overseed of an already decently thick turfstand is a heavy amount, especially with 20% of that being KBG. That said, you can assume that relatively little of that KBG is going to germinate or establish.
> 
> If you have truly thin spots, throwing down a little more seed into them isn't the worst thing in the world, but I wouldn't do another full overseed. At a certain point you are wasting money, encouraging the grass to compete against itself (as @jtuber mentioned), and setting yourself up for disease problems next season.


I think I Wil do that I still have around 15 pounds left over so will hit those again


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## jeffman2 (Apr 8, 2019)

As the baby grass grows it will fill in. It may not be until next year that the new seedlings fully fill in, but I wouldn't put any more seed down. Anyway it's getting late to our seed down


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## Factor (Oct 10, 2019)

Dieseldan9 said:


> 10 pounds per thousand is too much?


Only if I am selling you seed No.

3-5 pounds per 1000. You need a 100 pounds.

https://ag.umass.edu/home-lawn-garden/fact-sheets/lawn-renovation-overseeding

https://turf.umn.edu/news/consider-dormant-seeding-your-lawn-fall


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## kk07 (Sep 2, 2020)

Isn't it too late to be overseeding in MA at this time now?


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## Dieseldan9 (Aug 18, 2020)

kk07 said:


> Isn't it too late to be overseeding in MA at this time now?


I am not sure the next few days is cold.

I am getting worried and I did mine 9 days ago


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## Dieseldan9 (Aug 18, 2020)

Factor said:


> Dieseldan9 said:
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> 
> > 10 pounds per thousand is too much?
> ...


Wow great article thanx!


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## kk07 (Sep 2, 2020)

Dieseldan9 said:


> kk07 said:
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> > Isn't it too late to be overseeding in MA at this time now?
> ...


ok, that sounds better. I also did mine 12 days ago. I am also worried about upcoming low temps but no frost yet this month based on many weather applications/websites (according to accuweather, mid-late Oct is where the frost temps are being predicted). I'm already seeing the seedlings and they are about 0.5-1.5" tall now but still small needles at this point. Hopefully, the first frost will be as late as it can be.


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## Factor (Oct 10, 2019)

Dieseldan9 said:


> Wow great article thanx!


Yep most states and counties have University-based research related to most anything. Since you are in MA I picked it and one from a further North for a comparison. The county you are in I am sure has an Agriculture Extension office for U of Mass. They are a great resource just look them up.

Remeber if you go somewhere that sell stuff they usally will sell all you ask for.. Like buying a car "I mean you want the cool stereo right"


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## Factor (Oct 10, 2019)

kk07 said:


> Dieseldan9 said:
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> > kk07 said:
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https://ag.umass.edu/home-lawn-garden/fact-sheets/lawn-renovation-overseeding
The article general speaks of renovation and overseeding together. So think of timing as the same.
Timing
Renovation during late summer (August 15 - September 15) generally yields the best results. Minimal weed competition as well as cooler temperatures and ample rainfall usually follow late summer renovation, thus providing a favorable environment for new seedlings. Late summer seeding must be accomplished early enough to allow the grass to become well established before the onset of cold weather in order to enhance winter survival. Renovation may be attempted during spring if absolutely necessary. During late spring, however, extensive weed competition coupled with summer drought and heat stress can reduce the probability of success.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

I'm in Ma and I overseeded a week before Labor Day. This way you buy yourself some time to throw down extra seed if you have any fungus outbreak or bare spots. The later you go, the smaller window. I learned my lesson from last year. I underestimated the amount of time everything would take and I was still able to get a great outcome but ran out of time and I dropped seed on 9/8 last year


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Dieseldan9 said:


> Can u actually put down too much seed?


Yes, you can absolutely put down too much seed. Less is better especially since you are using KBG which is rhizomatous. Too many grass plants will fight for nutrients and water and will result in overall weaker, shallower rooted grass plants. It may all stay green through the winter, but come next year when warmer temps and less regular rainfall are the norm, you are more likely to experience dieback. Ask me how I know. :roll:

Less is more unless you are selling grass seed.


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## Dieseldan9 (Aug 18, 2020)

Thanx for all your hell guys

I wish I could have seeded earlier but work crazy hours and needed my irrigation guy to expand my zones.

Plus cleared some brush to make room for more grass

I hope I am not too late but I see some mid 70s next week which should help


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Dieseldan9 said:


> Thanx for all your hell guys
> 
> I wish I could have seeded earlier but work crazy hours and needed my irrigation guy to expand my zones.
> 
> ...


Where in MA are you? I'm near Springfield and generally people seed here until Oct. 1 with success. Although it was 34F this morning!


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Deadlawn said:


> Dieseldan9 said:
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> > Thanx for all your hell guys
> ...


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## sheepfescue (Jul 29, 2019)

I don't think you can over-do it; for golf courses and athletic fields, 100 pounds per 1000 sq ft is recommended for overseeds.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

sheepfescue said:


> I don't think you can over-do it; for golf courses and athletic fields, 100 pounds per 1000 sq ft is recommended for overseeds.


Can you point to an article with that recommendation?


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

Wow, 100 lbs? You sure that isn't supposed to be 10 lbs?


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## dport (Oct 13, 2019)

g-man said:


> sheepfescue said:
> 
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> > I don't think you can over-do it; for golf courses and athletic fields, 100 pounds per 1000 sq ft is recommended for overseeds.
> ...


I think he's right. Plenty of articles out there about courses overseeded at 1000 pounds per acre, which I believe is about 100 pounds per 1000sq ft. Also, have seen specific TTTF rates of 30 pounds per 1000sq ft at courses. Source below.

https://gsrpdf.lib.msu.edu/?file=/2000s/2000/000101.pdf

Edit, I think my math is off, perhaps it's 50 pounds per 1000? On my phone and tied up.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Deadlawn said:


> Dieseldan9 said:
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> > I hope I am not too late but I see some mid 70s next week which should help
> ...


The best time for seeding at our latitude in New England has already gone by. However, seeding until the start of October can work for some of the grass types in a standard "northern mix" at our latitude. (I'm about 50 miles further north than Springfield, MA, although further east.)

In specific, the perennial ryegrass of a "northern mix" is quick to germinate and establish. The fine fescue isn't quite as quick, but will also do, well, fine, at our latitude in late September. Any Kentucky bluegrass in a northern mix that is seeded around October 1 isn't likely to make it before winter. At least that has been my experience on multiple prior seedings done around October 1st.

The original poster was looking to seed a PRG/KBG mix, in which the PRG will do well seeded at this time. If anybody else reading is looking to seed exclusively Kentucky bluegrass at our latitude in New England, the best time for that was about 5 weeks ago. In our area, KBG seed sown today will likely germinate and survive the winter, but won't get mature enough to need mowing before May 2021. (Been there, done that.)

But don't just take my word for it, the reference that @Factor provided from the U. Mass article on Lawn Renovation & Overseeding talked about both timing --"Renovation during late summer (August 15 to September 15) yields the best results" -- and provided a table of seeding rates for various seed mixes. (See links below.)

Personally, I like that how UMass referred to the time for renovation as being "late summer." National-level advice generally talks about "fall" for seeding, but that isn't right for New England, the northern US (Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, etc.) or Canada. It would really behoove us northerners to promote the proper seeding time as being "late summer" rather than fall.

*UMass Extension Article on Lawn Renovation & Overseeding*
Web Page: https://ag.umass.edu/home-lawn-garden/fact-sheets/lawn-renovation-overseeding
PDF Version: https://ag.umass.edu/sites/ag.umass.edu/files/fact-sheets/pdf/renovation_overseeding.pdf


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

1 acre = 43.5 ksqft

1000/43.5 = 23lb/ksqft


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## Factor (Oct 10, 2019)

ken-n-nancy said:


> I like that how UMass referred to the time for renovation as being "late summer."


Right. The OP is in Massatuchetts. That is why I linked the UoMA info. Yalls climate is way differnet up there. Yalls late summer is most likley like our early fall.

I usally trend the weather in my area instead of going by a month or "season"


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## JERSEY (Sep 9, 2018)

*as a general rule increasing the seeding rate by 50 % to compensate for poor conditions.*

egggzactly. unless your perfect, a little extra isnt going to hurt.

I know alot of people say its bad.......but alot of it isnt going to make it anyways in the real world...

more is better than less in my book.....and the weather is a huge variable.https://ag.umass.edu/home-lawn-garden/fact-sheets/lawn-renovation-overseeding



Dieseldan9 said:


> Factor said:
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## JERSEY (Sep 9, 2018)

Deadlawn said:


> Dieseldan9 said:
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> > Can u actually put down too much seed?
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I am asking how you know...................................................................................................................


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## JERSEY (Sep 9, 2018)

as for dormant seeding, how will it germinate when your pre emergent is applied in early spring?



Dieseldan9 said:


> Factor said:
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## Dieseldan9 (Aug 18, 2020)

Deadlawn said:


> Dieseldan9 said:
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> > Thanx for all your hell guys
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Raynham.... Yes last few days been very cold

I have no germination and it has been 9 days


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Dieseldan9 said:


> Raynham.... Yes last few days been very cold
> 
> I have no germination and it has been 9 days


I looked you up on the USDA Zone map and it looks like you are in Zone 6B, so you are actually a bit warmer than I am here. You're also closer to the ocean, so you have more moderating effects from the water and less likely to have an early frost. I'm in the valley, so there are greater swings here between day and night temps.

As far as germination rates:

Perennial Rye: 5-10 days.

Tall Fescue: 10-14 days.

Red and Chewings Fescue: 6-10 days.

Hard Fescue: 7-14 days.

Bluegrass: 14-30 days.


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

JERSEY said:


> Deadlawn said:
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> > Ask me how I know. :roll:
> ...


Ummm, because I did this last fall and although it started out well and was green all winter and through early spring, grass blades were thin even though it was KY-31. This is a grass which characteristically has thick blades and sends down deep roots, however, by spring, the roots were still only around 2 inches deep. As soon as daytime temps were above 70 in May, it started browning. It was mostly dead by mid-June. There are a few surviving clumps left here and there which have since sent down deep roots.

That's how I know. :nod:


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Deadlawn said:


> JERSEY said:
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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

g-man said:


> sheepfescue said:
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> > I don't think you can over-do it; for golf courses and athletic fields, 100 pounds per 1000 sq ft is recommended for overseeds.
> ...


@sheepfescue no source? Made up number? 10lb /1000sqft?

At 100lb/ksqft you will likely be topdressing with seeds and walking on seeds instead of soil.


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## Factor (Oct 10, 2019)

g-man said:


> topdressing with seeds and walking on seeds instead of soil.


Totally my thought too. :thumbup:


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

g-man said:


> g-man said:
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> > sheepfescue said:
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10lbs per 1000 sq ft sounds way more accurate than 100lbs per sq ft. The recommended rates for seeding are:

Ryegrass: 8-10 lbs per 1000 sq ft.

Bluegrass: 2-3 lbs per 1000 sq ft.

Fescues (except red): 5-6 lbs per 1000 sq ft.

Red fescue: 4-5 lbs per 1000 sq ft.


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## Apapknarf (Oct 3, 2018)

This is the chart from site 1 if that helps.


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

Temps will be around 80 this week, so hopefully that sticks around for a bit.


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Zcape35 said:


> Temps will be around 80 this week, so hopefully that sticks around for a bit.


Of course at higher temps, you will need to be more vigilant about keeping the seed moist.


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## Dieseldan9 (Aug 18, 2020)

Apapknarf said:


> This is the chart from site 1 if that helps.


Wow that is a hell of a find

So my guess on my new lesco spreader was about right.

Thanx for that


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## Dieseldan9 (Aug 18, 2020)

Zcape35 said:


> Temps will be around 80 this week, so hopefully that sticks around for a bit.


Yes I know 👍👍

I have irrigation so running it 3 times per day


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## Apapknarf (Oct 3, 2018)

No problem. My site 1 guys are great. Very friendly to diy novices. When I bought my seed they had me take a picture of the chart so I wouldn't forget what setting / lbs of seed they recommend.


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## Apapknarf (Oct 3, 2018)

No problem. My site 1 guys are great. Very friendly to diy novices. When I bought my seed they had me take a picture of the chart so I wouldn't forget what setting / lbs of seed they recommend.



Dieseldan9 said:


> Apapknarf said:
> 
> 
> > This is the chart from site 1 if that helps.
> ...


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