# Recommendations for topsoil/sand ratio



## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Planning a reno over 1700sqft this fall and looking to do some leveling. Mainly where the yard meets the concrete I need to raise it up, on average, about 3/4". One section of the hell strip (about 20sqft) needs to come up about 2 inches and there are a few other areas I need to float out about the same.

With that said, I've contacted a local supplier and they have two topsoil mixes available, both pulverized. One is a 50/50 mix of black topsoil and sand and the other is a 70/30 topsoil to sand mix.

I'm leaning towards the 70/30 but want to see what others think. Thanks!


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## Kiza (Oct 30, 2019)

I always liked leveling with new soil that had a similar composition to my own. You can always do a Mason Jar test and see what percentage of clay, silt, and sand you have in your current soil. Then adjust accordingly with your new soil or get the closest fit.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

My current soil is some heavy red clay (31 CEC). I wouldn't dare try to add more and level it without heavy equipment. The goal here is to add some substance to the concrete transitions as well as creating a good seed bed for the reno.

I'm not opposed to leveling with just sand in the future but I know I'll be stuck with it when I do.


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## Jagermeister (May 18, 2021)

I have the same issues in my backyard where I lost the grass and then the topsoil washed away. I am now left with very hard clay, probably hydrophobic. I would like to amend the soil with something that holds together better than sand so was thinking I needed a new layer of topsoil and then something like netting to hold it in place until the grass comes back in. Let us know what you figure out.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Well, I decided on 70/30 so that I can build it up in areas and hopefully the sand will offer some drainage. My plan is to get it pretty good for this reno and then only have to add sand for minor spots in the future.


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## PALawnGuy5 (Apr 19, 2021)

lbb091919 said:


> Well, I decided on 70/30 so that I can build it up in areas and hopefully the sand will offer some drainage. My plan is to get it pretty good for this reno and then only have to add sand for minor spots in the future.


Keep us posted on how it turns out for you. I have heavy clay myself and have debated which mixture to level the bumpy parts of my yard as well. I've heard pros and cons to different levels of sand on heavy clay and want to be sure before I make the situation worse. The back part of my property line turns into a creek when we get heavy rain.


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## PNW_George (May 28, 2018)

Difficult to know what a 70% topsoil to 30% sand mix actually is because the topsoil itself might have sand in it. Your local agricultural college should have recommendations for your climate, typical soil type and best grass to grow. They are useful guides but not gospel. My local college WSU for example recommends the following.

"The ideal soil texture for a lawn is a sandy loam. A soil of this type contains 60-70% sand and 30-40% combined silt and clay. If the soil is a natural sandy loam or loamy sand containing as much as 70% sand, no alteration is recommended."

I have used 100% sand to top-dress for the last few years but that doesn't mean it's the best choice for everyone.


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## macattack (Nov 2, 2020)

I am going to try a 1:1:1 of topsoil:compost:sand. My local supplier will custom make what i need. I have a test batch ready to mix and try. Need to mow a ~200 sq ft section of the lawn down to something manageable. Its at 4" HOC right now. Figure it needs to be down to 2" or less. I'll do this in the backyard so if it goes horribly wrong, no one will see it. I already have my 40" R&R rake. I need roughly 6 cubic yards. Thought i would have had this completed last month and it seems like a massive undertaking. Maybe i now wait til fall renovation in August/September.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Just ordered a 36" rake from R&R today. Definitely nervous/anxious that it turns out ok and it doesn't get out of hand since I've never done anything like this.


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

lbb091919 said:


> Just ordered a 36" rake from R&R today. Definitely nervous/anxious that it turns out ok and it doesn't get out of hand since I've never done anything like this.


I got one, and it works fabulously. Makes filling holes so much easier.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Ok, flipping the script on this thread. Went down the soil layering rabbit hole last night and I'm curious to see what others' thoughts are on this.

The material I plan to use contains an estimated 30% sand. I read through a few university extension articles which say NOT to apply sand to a clay soil because it can fill the tiny gaps in the clay and make it even more difficult to work with. I also read some threads on this board where some very knowledgeable members claim that's a myth and it's fine to add sand on top of an existing clay soil. From my reading, many suggested aerating and topdressing with compost to amend clay soil. My soil is already low in OM so I'd love to do that, BUT I know that's eventually going to settle and I'll be back to where I started.

*Here's my dilemma:* As I mentioned before, I need to raise some areas about 2-3" and about 0.5-1" on the driveway/sidewalk transitions. I'd love to stick with my topsoil/sand mix, bring those areas up and ride off into the sunset with my level yard. But by bringing in this topsoil am I causing more layering issues because it's not similar to my native soil and is stacked on top of the clay? The builder did apply some topsoil (probably a VERY thin layer) and the sod has about an inch layer of whatever soil it was cut from too.

I have woods in the back of my property so I could dig out that soil and use it but it's very tough to work with, contains a lot of rock and God knows how many weed seeds. Do I need to just bite the bullet and use that?

A lot going on here, I know, but I am the type that likes to overanalyze a little and do things the right way the first time instead of trying to pick up the pieces after the fact.


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## Bombers (Jul 14, 2020)

Have you dig a test hole or plug to see what your actual composition is? Pick a discrete spot and take out a square chunk about the width and depth of a shovel and evaluate that.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Contractor dug two 3ft holes yesterday for deck posts so I'll take a look at the walls of those and get a good photo. I also realized I have not done a mason jar test so that's on the agenda for tonight most likely.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

PNW_George said:


> Difficult to know what a 70% topsoil to 30% sand mix actually is because the topsoil itself might have sand in it.


Exactly. Topsoil almost always is part sand itself.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

PNW_George said:


> "The ideal soil texture for a lawn is a sandy loam. A soil of this type contains 60-70% sand and 30-40% combined silt and clay. If the soil is a natural sandy loam or loamy sand containing as much as 70% sand, no alteration is recommended."


Question for you. Where does the silt come from? Is it something that is produced by organic matter accumulation over time? Or is it strictly a geological process, like weathering of larger particles? Silt is usually the missing ingredient in any topdress or leveling mixes I've made, and I have no idea how to add it in because I don't think it's available on the market. Ever see a bag of silt for sale, lol?


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

This has me thinking I also need to get a sample of my supplier's topsoil offerings and run some tests on it.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I bought two tri-axles of topsoil for my reno (see 2020 journal).

The blend had a significant amount of sand in it already - which I love now as it helps with water percolating down into my native soil.

I rented an asphalt roller to speed up settling the new soil. I highly advise that to anyone getting a significant amount of topsoil.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> I bought two tri-axles of topsoil for my reno (see 2020 journal).
> 
> The blend had a significant amount of sand in it already - which I love now as it helps with water percolating down into my native soil.
> 
> I rented an asphalt roller to speed up settling the new soil. I highly advise that to anyone getting a significant amount of topsoil.


I've read through your reno thread a couple times actually. I cringed after the nurse destroyed all that hard work. I think you mentioned that the soil you brought in was a close match to your native soil? I love the idea/concept of sand, I'm just hesitant to make a decision at this point.


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## PNW_George (May 28, 2018)

Green said:


> PNW_George said:
> 
> 
> > "The ideal soil texture for a lawn is a sandy loam. A soil of this type contains 60-70% sand and 30-40% combined silt and clay. If the soil is a natural sandy loam or loamy sand containing as much as 70% sand, no alteration is recommended."
> ...


Silt is one of the three groups that define *soil texture* and is based on size. Sand, Silt, clay.

Soil structure is the arrangement of these soil texture groups as well as organic matter.



> Soil structure is the arrangement of the soil solid particles (sand, silt, and clay) allowing for open pore space between the particles. The ideal soil components include: air 25%, water 25%, minerals 45%, and OM 5%. Structure is determined by how the individual units are arranged, bound together, or clumped to form aggregates resulting in the arrangement of soil pore spaces between them. The clumping is the result of OM (carbon) and biology activity such as earthworms and fungi." Carbon is the food for the soil that builds the aggregates and makes the glue. Green plants take in carbon dioxide from the air and secrete carbon exudates into the soil." © Paul Carter WSU"


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

lbb091919 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> > I bought two tri-axles of topsoil for my reno (see 2020 journal).
> ...


Texture wise it was very close to my existing soil with the exception of sand/compost and other amendments added into it. Before I was using WayPoint for my soil tests - I used MSU which would tell you what your soil is: Silt Loam / Silt Clay, etc...when I tested the topsoil it came back the same "category" as my existing.

Honestly I'd say look for referrals, online reviews, or grill the topsoil seller with questions: where is the soil coming from? Has it been tested? What size screens has it gone through? If they start BS-ing just pass.

You'll be able to know within 2-3 minutes if they know what they are talking about. I feel like this is more important than the final composition (still very important).


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