# Dealing with HOAs



## Phids (Sep 24, 2020)

I moved into into a new subdivision in late 2019 and it was the first time I've had to deal with an HOA. So far, I feel as if the HOA is more of a burden than a benefit. There is a long list of rules which restrict all sorts of things, such as any planting new plants in the front yard, trees anywhere on the lot, and even type of grass on the lawn. I can ask for approval to make changes, and hope they are merciful. This just seems like a kind of stupid way to live, though.

Has anyone else had much experience dealing with HOAs before? Or resistance from HOAs in approving basic landscaping requests?


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

It goes both ways. My HOA is asleep at the wheel, collecting dues and not enforcing the covenants or providing the services they promise. Meanwhile, we have folks parking trucks on the sidewalks, parking boats, RV's, utility trailers etc in their driveways for extended periods (expressly prohibited in the covenant), parking extra vehicles in common areas, retention ponds get mowed 1x year at best, common area buildings falling into disrepair, etc. In a 'hood where the new homes are selling for $500k+.

Give it a whirl, jump through the hoops. Most of the time, these covenants aren't to restrict you from making positive improvements. But they are there to prevent alterations in poor taste, maintain a somewhat uniform curb appeal and minimum standard of maintenance in order to protect property values, and maintain clear streets/drives, fire access, etc. For all but the simplest requests (ie. replace/add tree), a visual aid from a proposal goes a long way in getting the architectural committee to share your vision, especially if it bends the covenant rules a bit.

As for it being a stupid way to live, it's more of a personal choice. I'm a rural guy at heart, but I knew going in that having my own workshop, fixing vehicles/equipment on the side, wasn't going to happen. I wasn't going to be able to start a goat/chicken/gorilla farm, and planting a couple acres of sweet corn was out of the question as well. So I farm the grass, and enjoy the social aspects of our 'hood while hoping that the HOA stays relaxed and becomes a bit more responsive once more control is handed over to the residents. (After new construction is complete)


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## Phids (Sep 24, 2020)

MasterMech said:


> Give it a whirl, jump through the hoops. Most of the time, these covenants aren't to restrict you from making positive improvements. But they are there to prevent alterations in poor taste, maintain a somewhat uniform curb appeal and minimum standard of maintenance in order to protect property values, and maintain clear streets/drives, fire access, etc.


That's good to hear, and it sounds like the most sensible reason for an HOA's existence. Maybe I'm just too fearful of being micromanaged. What got me annoyed was last summer, when I wanted to change the type of tree that the developer had planted from an oak to a maple, I decided to ask the HOA about this and assumed they'd just tell me it was not a problem. But the HOA master told me I had to fill out an application, take a photo, and get it approved before I could do it. All for a tree in the exact same place? Meanwhile, I've had two neighbors put up fences around their yards without getting my approval first, which I thought went against the HOA rules, so who knows how closely they're policing their own rules....


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## rhanna (Jun 7, 2017)

Phids said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> > Give it a whirl, jump through the hoops. Most of the time, these covenants aren't to restrict you from making positive improvements. But they are there to prevent alterations in poor taste, maintain a somewhat uniform curb appeal and minimum standard of maintenance in order to protect property values, and maintain clear streets/drives, fire access, etc.
> ...


I became a board member of my HOA a few months ago. We have about 50 homes in the neighborhood and the HOA is fairly understanding but they do enforce rules. We have a retired guy that's been the president for the last few years.

I wouldn't worry about them asking for more documentation. It's more for their records than anything and the neighbors that installed the fence without approval could have the HOA force them to remove it (If they refuse I'm guess the HOA could hire someone and tear it down and have them foot the bill).

Sounds like your HOA might have more rules than us if it's telling you the grass type but in the end when you purchased the house you agreed to the HOA rules that come with it. It's kind of like the disclaimers almost no one reads and just agrees.

I would rather live in the middle of nowhere without HOA but I also have an elementary age child and he's getting more social skills than I had growing up where my closest friend was 10 miles away.


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

I was on the HOA and ARC committee at my last house in that neighborhood. If your looking to do something to improve you house, lawn flowerbeds etc...Its best to obviously read the covenants and restrictions first. Then draw/sketch something up to give to the ARC committee to approve. Even if you have something outside of the restrictions the ARC committee can give you a variance and approve it. Best to just get everything in writing or e-mail. You should be fine with anything to improve the curb appeal of your house. They are mainly there to enforce things @MasterMech was talking about.


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## Herring (Sep 19, 2020)

We received a friendly notice that our door color didn't match our shutters when we first moved in. We then painted both to match and they looked better than before. It was strange to think I paid someone to give me that notice, but I do believe when done right having an HOA helps our property value vs not having one.


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

I'm not interested in dealing with any hoa busybodies. I refuse to live anywhere that has a hoa. Works for me. Hopefully your hoa works for you.


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## MarkV (Mar 22, 2017)

My wife spent two years on our board and I was on the two years after her.

I can't speak to as how your HOA does things. But the way we handled architectural reviews was an email came in with what ever request; the board (we only had five people at most so all board members we on all committees) would discuss and vote on it, and give a reply.

One can think this is a stupid way to live, but if one buys a home in an HOA, one must deal with it.

My advise to all homeowners in HOA's is to get involved as much as possible. It's been my experience that very few people help. If you offer to help in any way (offer to be on the review board perhaps) it will not be turned down.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

As pointed out, you chose to purchase in an HOA. You can't piss and moan about a choice you made.

I live in a master planned community that grew into a very large 2000 home set up. Complete with a huge lake, boat ramp, 8-9 playgrounds, 3 or 4 pools, community center, multiple entrances to landscape, a golf course, etc.

People buy in here because of the values, because the hoa USED to nag on folks for things like mold and mildew on your siding. Mailbox looking sad, weeds, trash cans visible from the road, etc.

Ours got lax, and like many, when I wanted to redo stuff you figure you need to ask. I sort of asked, I put in the paperwork to the board but I went ahead with my renovation regardless, as I knew it was in good taste, was within their covenants and would not be an issue.

One thing they used to say was two tree per front yard mandatory. What this did in a community with lots of mature trees was shade out all lawns. Finally people are now 15 years later dealing with erosion, roots and minimal grass. Thankfully people recognize it, or see others starting to cut out the Bradford pears and the river birches and replace with better choices and only 1 tree.

If you need a new tree, do it, more so if it's within the covenants of the community. Tell them it died, they'd be none the wiser to push the issue.

Ride around into communities where people don't take care of their homes, and don't get any pushes from a HOA and see how gross they look. Pink shutters, unkempt landscape, or zero landscape if that. Broke down cars, boats and mowers out front. It's unsightly, and I agree their choice to live like that, but don't act like it's a group infringing on your freedom, because you signed the agreement at closing.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

@FATC1TY i live in a neighborhood with no HOA and a few people complain endlessly about the one guy with 5 cars parked in his front yard. He is within the law. It seems there's always folks who don't understand the function on an HOA (or the consequences of NOT having one) and complain accordingly.

Whining should come with a fee. LOL


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

ionicatoms said:


> @FATC1TY i live in a neighborhood with no HOA and a few people complain endlessly about the one guy with 5 cars parked in his front yard. He is within the law. It seems there's always folks who don't understand the function on an HOA (or the consequences of NOT having one) and complain accordingly.
> 
> Whining should come with a fee. LOL


No doubt. I mean, my next move will be more rural, more land, no one to police my actions or choices. It'll be great, and I won't be affected by the guy 20 acres over who I've never met because his property is overgrown by 6 ft.

On the other side of it, yeah I hate there is someone judging your home, and taking good money I paid to send me a notice to spend more money or deny my requests. For what it's worth I can't think of many times I've heard people say they got denied...

I do appreciate people being told by the HOA to spray and mow. I do appreciate them telling people to not put out trash and yard debris more than 48 hours before pick up. They don't grill them, but it's kind of an understood variance.

I appreciate people updating their landscapes somewhat, and I get some folks just don't have the cash for a lot. I gey there are hard times, lost jobs and people lash out when the HOA says to pressure wash and someone doesn't have the $200 for the job, and go ballistic online about it. Tough luck, you paid and signed a legal agreement, it didn't have any amendments for "short on cash". It's just the same as keeping your other bills current


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## Phids (Sep 24, 2020)

ionicatoms said:


> @FATC1TY i live in a neighborhood with no HOA and a few people complain endlessly about the one guy with 5 cars parked in his front yard. He is within the law. It seems there's always folks who don't understand the function on an HOA (or the consequences of NOT having one) and complain accordingly.
> 
> Whining should come with a fee. LOL





FATC1TY said:


> As pointed out, you chose to purchase in an HOA. You can't piss and moan about a choice you made.


The issue isn't really "whining" about an HOA, but about how heavy-handed HOAs should be and how to deal with them. Obviously they provide some value, and obviously we choose to live with them (though in my town there weren't many options, if any, for new construction without an HOA). However, just as people criticize their governments for too many restrictions, it's fair to criticize harsh HOAs.

It sounds like some people here view HOAs in a kinder light, which is good to hear. I think my negative reaction was due to the long list of rules, some of which would prevent me from doing even basic things to beautify my home, and uncertainty over enforcement. But the more I drive around the neighborhood, the more I have been seeing projects/trees put up which I assume have been approved by the HOA, so maybe they're not as iron-fisted as I thought.


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## Phids (Sep 24, 2020)

FATC1TY said:


> On the other side of it, yeah I hate there is someone judging your home, and taking good money I paid to send me a notice to spend more money or deny my requests. For what it's worth I can't think of many times I've heard people say they got denied...
> 
> I do appreciate people being told by the HOA to spray and mow. I do appreciate them telling people to not put out trash and yard debris more than 48 hours before pick up. They don't grill them, but it's kind of an understood variance.


Those are some of the common sense rules that most everyone can agree on. General upkeep of the house exterior and yard are good things to enforce. It's the other rules that are the problem. Like those which would prevent me from planting gladiola bulbs in my own back yard because they can grow over 36", or which prevent me from changing out an ugly shrub that the developer planted in the front yard to a prettier one. Sometimes organizations have rules on the books that they keep in place, probably to scare people into compliance, even if they don't intend to enforce them. If that's the case, then so be it. On the other hand, if they would actually ding someone for a beautiful 48" flower growing in the back yard where few could ever see it....


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

Phids said:


> The issue isn't really "whining" about an HOA, but about how heavy-handed HOAs should be and how to deal with them. Obviously they provide some value, and obviously we choose to live with them (though in my town there weren't many options, if any, for new construction without an HOA). However, just as people criticize their governments for too many restrictions, it's fair to criticize harsh HOAs.


If I am living in any neighborhood, it is going to be regulated by a HOA/POA (Home Owners Association/Property Owners Association). If I am living on acreage, the better scenario would be without one. However, the average person has pretty low expectations for themselves neverless their lawns or homes upkeep. Therefore, both associations are there to protect your property values from these people.

I have served a three year term on my POA and it was a pretty thankless job. Everyone brings you their perceived problems without first trying to address them with a neighbor. Nobody wants the job except for those who are controllers. Here lies the problem with these associations. You get a board full of control freaks who want to control every aspect of the neighborhood. They enforce the rules that they deem important and forget about the ones that they are not adhering to themselves. It's like any typical government where there are rules for thee, but not for me.

I suggest that you read your CC&R's to fully know what is expected and allowed in your neighborhood. Then, you do not need to ask for permission on anything as it is clearly stated. As you start pointing out where the board members are failing according to the CC&R's...They start to leave you alone. 

During Covid last year, our association decided that they were not going to open the gates for an Open House or garage sales! :shock: Then, they backtracked into stating that they weren't given enough times notice when I emailed the entire community about their power overreach. I asked them where in the CC&R's they had that kind of power?

If you don't like your CC&R's you should rally enough residents to change them. Most people in neighborhoods are pretty like minded for the most part or they would be living somewhere else.

Good luck :thumbup:


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Phids said:


> FATC1TY said:
> 
> 
> > On the other side of it, yeah I hate there is someone judging your home, and taking good money I paid to send me a notice to spend more money or deny my requests. For what it's worth I can't think of many times I've heard people say they got denied...
> ...


The types of plantings and heights are rather odd, I'm with ya there. As long as it's not visible to the road I wouldn't and should care what someone does in their own yard. That's silly.

For instance, I have restrictions on fencing type and height in my neighborhood. Then I have even stricter conformance for living on the golf course. I also can't do some things in my yard like a shed, unless it matches my home. Again, kind of silly but I get where the optics are.

I say use your best judgement and add value to your home. I'd rather ask forgiveness than permission for some things.


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## frekwentflier (Oct 27, 2020)

I would never live in a suburban neighborhood without an HOA. I've fixed up flip houses in multiple non-HOA neighborhoods, and most of them looked pretty bad. Multiple cars parked everywhere, cars on cement blocks, unkept yards, damaged houses, trash in the yards, etc. HOAs are not perfect, but at least they try to provide some rules to keep the neighborhood looking decent. This helps property values for all residents.

That being said, even if my HOA required that I ask permission to plant some shrubs, I wouldn't bother. They're never going to notice something that small.

I, and I believe most HOAs as well, are more concerned with the big stuff. Fences, out of control lawns, too many cars, etc.

The one main thing I don't like about my HOA is their no shed policy. I don't see anything wrong with having a well-built shed in the backyard, mostly out of sight. But most of the houses here have 2.5 - 3 car garages, so the understanding is the extra garage space is your shed. I see their point, but even a 2.5 car garage can fill up quickly when you're a lawn care nut.


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## MarkV (Mar 22, 2017)

frekwentflier said:


> The one main thing I don't like about my HOA is their no shed policy.


That does seem ludicrous. There has to be a way to amend your CC&R. Maybe this is a project you could take on (getting the CC&R changed that is) to make some change in your neighborhood.

Our CC&R's say sheds under 6' (we all have 6' fence so you "shouldn't" be able to see it) are no problem. Anything 6'+ needs approval. What approval means that the shed color match the house trim and shingles are the same color as the house.


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## Bean4Me (May 13, 2020)

My HOA experience has been mixed. When I first moved into the neighborhood the guy 2 houses down was horrible. He would report me for every infraction. I knew who it was because we had a little bit of a disagreement shortly after I moved in and ever since then I would constantly get hit up by the HOA for every little thing that happened. Fast forward to the 2008 financial crisis where this guy lost his house and I've had zero issues with my HOA. I've bent the rules slightly but none of my neighbors care and they do the same. As others have said, I just avoid any big changes and it seems to be just fine. I wish I could have a shed. I wish I could have a big garden. But overall I like the neighborhood.


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## Phids (Sep 24, 2020)

Bean4Me said:


> My HOA experience has been mixed. When I first moved into the neighborhood the guy 2 houses down was horrible. He would report me for every infraction. I knew who it was because we had a little bit of a disagreement shortly after I moved in and ever since then I would constantly get hit up by the HOA for every little thing that happened. Fast forward to the 2008 financial crisis where this guy lost his house and I've had zero issues with my HOA. I've bent the rules slightly but none of my neighbors care and they do the same. As others have said, I just avoid any big changes and it seems to be just fine. I wish I could have a shed. I wish I could have a big garden. But overall I like the neighborhood.


I didn't realize that people would be that petty to report neighbors, except maybe in major cases. Since I moved in to my new development, I've seen quite a few people with what appear to be non-conforming yards, but I wouldn't feel like reporting them. Heck, neighbors on both sides of my house put up fences (without first notifying me as I thought they were supposed to do), so it is what it is.


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## rhanna (Jun 7, 2017)

I just asked the board if I could put a shed in my backyard and was shot down. I tried to find a large storage "bin" or anything that wasn't labeled as a shed but they aren't big enough. I had planned on putting pool supplies and my push mower inside the shed.

I had a neighbor last year complain when we were installing our pool. The installers built a mound of dirt over the sidewalk to protect it and I guess he expected them to remove the mound and build it back up everyday. He stopped the workers one day and complained to them about it and was telling them what to do. I told the workers to ignore him, I'm paying the bill and they are working for me not him.


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## Burnie (Jun 13, 2020)

rhanna said:


> I just asked the board if I could put a shed in my backyard and was shot down. I tried to find a large storage "bin" or anything that wasn't labeled as a shed but they aren't big enough. I had planned on putting pool supplies and my push mower inside the shed.
> 
> I had a neighbor last year complain when we were installing our pool. The installers built a mound of dirt over the sidewalk to protect it and I guess he expected them to remove the mound and build it back up everyday. He stopped the workers one day and complained to them about it and was telling them what to do. I told the workers to ignore him, I'm paying the bill and they are working for me not him.


Could always put up a storage Tent. :lol:

https://www.figisgallery.com/product/instant-outdoor-storage-tent/1234958-1


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