# Bluemuda - can it be done in South Texas??



## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

Thanks for calling me out on documenting @Bmossin ! I'm terrible at documenting things - but this time it's different/unique and I think a lot of members would be interested in the results.

I have ordered 10# of Turf Blue HGT by Barenbrug and plan to overseed my ~2,500 sq ft here within the next month. Here's my proposed order of operations:

1) Spray TNEX
2) Scalp. Not just a baby scalp either. 
3) Dethatch/Scarify 
4) Overseed and topdress
5) Water, water, water.

My situation is probably a bit different than most. The builder should have never put any bermuda variety in my backyard. There's probably 100 sq ft that get 8 or more hours of sun. The rest is shaded by trees or my house. Plus, Boerne is kind of weird. It's one of the coolest places in the hill country - literally, not just figuratively. Almost always 5 degrees cooler than San Antonio. Usually it's even cooler than DFW. Combine these two factors (shade and rarely over 100 degrees) with irrigation and I think I can make Turf Blue HGT last ALL YEAR ROUND.

What makes me so sure of this? Well, last year I overseeded with PRG. It went great! I had a beautiful lush winter lawn. Loved the color, loved the stripes...and best of all, I'm not allergic to it like i am bermuda. Let's fast forward to earlier this year. In order to take advantage of a long international vacation, I decided to do three things:

1) Scalp
2) Spray MSM to kill off the PRG
3) Heavy level

I thought SURELY this would kill off any PRG. Boy was I wrong,...

I still have PRG! Mind you it's here and there and not consistent (because of MSM) but it has survived A LOT of N apps, A LOT of heat, and a major level. What I've come to learn is that on the spectrum of cool season grasses, PRG ranks pretty low in heat tolerance. It's kind of the redheaded stepchild of cool season grasses. I don't think anyone has mono stands of PRG and most complain that it just dies out no matter what a few years in. If it can survive, even short term, why should KBG survive? KBG, at least Turf Blue HGT, is also more shade tolerant than PRG. Again, I don't know much about cool season grasses.

Lastly, if heat does become a problem, KBG generally doesn't die, it just goes dormant. Once cooler weather arrives, it should spring back to life just as the bermuda is waning.

Here's a bunch of links for everyone to geek out on! :

https://www.golfindustryshow.com/docs/librariesprovider6/2019-documents/2019-free-sessions/tuesday/turf-solutions-ii-tricks-of-the-trade/bluemuda--changing-the-way-we-grow-grass--transition-zone-by-gregg-munshaw-phd-and-brad-nevitt.pdf?sfvrsn=1f36e33e_2

https://sportsturfonline.com/2018/07/24/best-management-practices-on-bluemuda-athletic-fields/

https://twitter.com/hashtag/bluemuda?lang=en

https://www.mosportsturfconsulting.com

https://www.turfnet.com/blogs/entry/1579-talking-bluemuda-with-brian-winka-cfsm/

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/4020257/j4c11-s-fall-renovation-overseeding

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10975


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

Also, a shout out to @@j4c11. Your thread on Houzz played a big role in me deciding to do this!


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## Bmossin (May 31, 2018)

:thumbup: subscribed


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

lucas287 said:


> Also, a shout out to @@j4c11. Your thread on Houzz played a big role in me deciding to do this!


Oh no! Please accept my apologies :lol:


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

I'm going to get this party started on Sunday while my wife is working. Yes, I know it hasn't even cooled down and the air temps are far from optimal...I know! BUT, I want the bermuda to recover fully before our first frost and if i wait too much longer that won't happen!

On Saturday, I am thinking about buying this: https://www.ewingirrigation.com/catalog/product/view/id/17054/?SID=gepc38agvaesk0pfp2c26q2256

But since I am top dressing and my seed is YellowJacket coated: https://www.barusa.com/professional-turf/turf-technologies/yellow-jacket-enhanced-seed-coating it might be redundant/unnecessary to use something like that.

As well as a cubic yard of top dressing from Stone and Soil. It's made from San Antonio waste water sludge and sand.

Current HOC is a shaggy 1.25", so,..

1) I'll take it down to around .5"
2) I'll run my new SunJoe dethatcher across in a few different directions. I'll probably use the scarifier cartridge to make similar rows to what an overseeder/verticutter does. 
3) Use my broadcast spreader to spread the HGT @ 4 #/M. 
4) Top dress and work in with a drag mat. 
5) Spread hydromulch fertilizer. 
Steps 4 and 5 might be reversed (any advice??)

Water, water, water after that!


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

j4c11 said:


> lucas287 said:
> 
> 
> > Also, a shout out to @@j4c11. Your thread on Houzz played a big role in me deciding to do this!
> ...


Yeah! Look what you started! But really, your thorough documentation gave me confidence that if maintained properly (not to dissimilar than my current practices) that it fare summer stress just fine. I currently use Penterra, T-nex, FEature, etc...all products that should help the bluegrass thrive.

Also, check out the label I posted. Looks like Barvette comprises nearly 30% of the mix! And it's got a good amount of Barserati now too.


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

Hybrid Bermuda takes a recommended .38 oz/M of Tnex. I usually spray about half that and get great suppression.

KBG on the other hand calls for much higher rates...but that also corresponds to a much higher HOC. I will be aiming for 1" year round. I'm thinking I'll just keep doing what I'm doing .2 oz/M and it should be fine. Besides, KBG should actually grow inversely to bermuda...right? Slower in warmer temps? Faster in cooler temps?


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

Been a couple weeks since I posted an update (pics to follow).

Sep. 8th
*Scalped
*Dethatched
*Seed went down 
*sorry no pics of this

I've been monitoring my watering and adjusting as needed and have a lot of germination. Certainly not as fast as ryegrass but could see my first little green sprouts on day 6/7. The bermuda is recovering nicely too so from a distance you can't really tell what's what.

Our weather conditions are FAR from ideal for overseeding KBG, but once again, I wanted the bermuda to FULLY recover before going into dormancy. Doesn't look great into October either,...whatever survives this initially must be pretty tough and should be able to survive after 8 months of maturity before next summer.



Also, everyone should know I have the worst overseeding practices. Two rowdy hunting dogs are impossible to keep from galloping about. Plus, I've continued to walk on it as if it didn't seed at all. If this succeeds for me - it should work for almost anyone!


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

@lucas287

How did your bluegrass reno turn out?


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

j4c11 said:


> @lucas287
> 
> How did your bluegrass reno turn out?


I had a feeling this would happen - months would go by with no activity on my part! I'm now a proud father with a little boy turning 5 months in a couple days. Now I know what people meant when they said they don't have time! Whew.

Anyways - it's going great! Being so busy with our baby turned out to be a good thing because KBG requires some patience. I didn't even take progress pics because of how disappointed I was. It really didn't start taking off until a month ago and since then it's been really nice. Are there color differences? Absolutely! Do i care? Nope. My backyard is for the family and dogs. My main goal is to have green grass from fence to fence including under trees. Something that the shade-challenged bermuda cannot do.

One of the pics is a close shot of kbg next to celebration bermuda. Speaking of, now that the temps are rising and the sun is out longer - that bermuda is starting to fire up! I expect within the next month that I'll really get a good feel for how well they look together.


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

My HOC goal is right at 1" this year. I've tried 1.5", 2" and I just can't do it. Too used to reel low bermuda. Plus is makes the dog pee spots look even worse when the grass is longer!

So that short HOC is my only concern with hot weather,...


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

Also, KBG spreads like mad! Dog pee kills it dead but within a month it'll fill in a 4-6" circle. I should take some progress pics just to show everyone how it stolonizes and spreads. If it survives, or even goes dormant, and comes back during the winter, this is a game changer!


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

Tried the whole 1" HOC thing - it's just not for me. I even tried letting the front yard (all Tifsport) get that tall and I just can't do it. Once you go reel low there's no going back! My cal trimmer doesn't really cut lower than .5" so it's difficult to go REEEL low simply because I can't scalp any lower. So my new goal HOC is .65" (bench height). That's probably pushing the limits of KBG in South Texas, but, we shall see!

So, in prep for this new HOC I did a scalp down to .5" and it was the least painful scalp I've ever done! It's still green - which is weird coming from bermuda  the pics are pretty awful because my smartphone sucks, it doesn't really capture the green very well. I also watered for the first time this year as I tuned up my sprinkler heads. Since I don't want to push KBG growth too much, I plan to keep the backyard strictly spoon fed - maybe even just milorganite or Houactinite. I'll still spray PGR/Fe/Extreme blend every few weeks but I'm really trying to modify my practices to see if I can reasonably keep the KBG alive this summer. Plus, I have a baby boy now and pretty soon he'll be crawling all over the backyard so I want to try to keep the chemicals to a minimum.


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

Oh also - in the top picture, the dead rectangular spots - that's where we had some rocks sitting for about a week as we thought about putting a little flower bed in. Also, there are lots of pee spots  I'm mulching my other side yard and going to train the pups to go pee over there!

Another thing is that I have not, and probably won't ever, spray a fungicide. I've never needed to spray it on bermuda so I don't have any and don't feel like investing in it either. If the KBG can't survive here without it, then that's how it'll be!


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

Remember in my first post when I talk about the weather in Boerne being cooler than San Antonio and even surrounding areas?? Just snapped this pic of the evening news! It's almost always 5-8 degrees cooler than San Antonio. And that means our weather is more similar to North Texas/OK and I think that plus shade goes a long way to support fescue/KBG growth.


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

Another thing I forgot to disclose. I seriously thought my KBG seed had failed in the fall because of how bad the sprout and pout was. So I got a little too antsy and bought some TTTF. I found a great cultivar for sale over on the cool season side, it's called Raptor III. That stuff is doing great! It is actually blending quite well with the bermuda too. We'll see how it does in the heat though!


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## jbcarter14 (Aug 12, 2018)

How did your yard look over winter? I have been putting PRG these last few years but on my two side yards it lasts almost all summer even with me spraying it a few times with certainty. I was thinking about throwing some of this https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass-seed/fescue-grass-seed/combat-extreme-southern-zone.html down instead of PRG this year. I really like the PRG look and feel and get a good 5 months out of it. Thinking this could last longer and maybe just a light overseeding every year.


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

@jbcarter14 it looked pretty good throughout winter. But my goals are much different during the winter. I don't care so much about aesthetics as I do about making sure there's just grass because of my two dogs. If I left the dormant bermuda it would just turn to mud in spots. So in the winter, I just chill and let it get shaggy and don't really even water. With that said, it still looked pretty decent.

I cogitated on that exact blend from Outside Pride. Ultimately, decided to go with the TurfBlue HGT mix. It's well documented to blend decently with bermuda but I got really inpatient with how slow it was compared to PRG. I thought the whole thing had failed. So, I bought some SPF-30 and some Raptor III TTTF. Randomly threw that seed out favoring the edges and under my trees where the bermuda struggles. BUT - I wish I hadn't done that! I wish I had been patient. There's a lot of color variation in m lawn now.

Ideally lol the TTTF will just die during the summer and the KBG will go dormant and return once it cools off. I'm only going to water 1" week when needed so honestly it all might die lol


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

@jbcarter14 I don't actually have pics over the winter because I was ashamed at how bad it looked! Plus I was distracted with our newborn


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## jbcarter14 (Aug 12, 2018)

That sounds pretty similar to my situation. I have an 80 pound Golden that during the winter destroys the yard if I just leave it Bermuda. Rolls in the grass and brings it in the house. Also I have a toddler that still likes to get out in the yard all winter. Its actually some of the best time to get out. The 6-7 months I have PRG, I think it looks the best. But come June it looks bad and thin if I don't get rid of it earlier. I will probably give it a shot on the sides of my house where it is more shady. Ill check out the TurfBlue mix.


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

A very similar situation! So in your case the PRG dominates and the bermuda isn't able to coexist. I suspect that will happen with the KBG to a certain extent too, but since it's more of a rhizomatous grass than a clumpy grass it might coexist better with another rhizomatous grass? Idk! Guess we'll see!


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

And just like that, poof, 6 weeks has gone by. Here's an update on some of my observations.

*KBG doesn't like dull blades. I notice this more than bermuda alone. 
*It grows incredibly fast with mild temps. (3 days and spots have grown close to an inch)
*Spreads nicely. 
*Haven't noticed any heat stress - YET. 
*Very dense. 
*Dog pee kills it dead - then the bermuda starts overtaking the dead spot in no time.

The color difference of KBG vs Tifsport isn't THAT bad. You notice it most in the early morning dew. Bermuda turns kind of blue and the KBG is still green. Once that burns off and in the direct sunlight it blends decently. The problem is that darn TTTF I put nervously put down. I really hope it just dies off this summer.

And finally, some pics.


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