# Horrible Reel "Scalp Marks" in my Bermuda?



## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

Hey everyone,

Overall it's been a good year for me and my TriKing. However, all of a sudden my bermuda is starting to look much worse, and I'm getting this horrible strange uneven "scalping" effect from the mower.





So, here's my thoughts on it, and I'd like to get others' as well.

- #1, I know it's late in the year, and those stems are probably getting tall and so that is contributing to the effect
- I'm also probably having a PGR "rebound", as it's now been well over a month since I sprayed. I don't see the since in putting down more this late. Am I wrong?
- I have been having issues with my front left reel, as the RTB adjuster bolt seems to slip out of the thread, making it difficult to either tighten or loosen one side of the reel. I will be checking that today, and seeing if it's just uneven. 
- I'm also going to do another backlap.
- Yes, I'm pretty much a complete newbie as it comes to riding reel mowers in general, but I've learned a lot. I did successfully backlap a couple months ago, and it was cutting quite nicely for a while at .75" (what it was set at when purchased):





- So I'm thinking about raising the HOC quite a bit (by a reel's standards), maybe up to an inch or more. This is so hopefully I can avoid a scalp this late in the season by keeping it mostly green going into the first frost (Usually is the second or third week of October for us. Seems to get later every year.) It will be my first attempt at this, and for some reason it seems much more complicated than the RTB procedure, so any tips on this would be a huge help also. I do have the materials to make my own adjuster, so we'll see how it goes.

Anyway, I'm a bit discouraged at this point, as it was really starting to look nice, so any insight into the above is appreciated.

Thanks!


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## Philly_Gunner (Apr 23, 2019)

Just a though but have you checked tire pressure?


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## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

Philly_Gunner said:


> Just a though but have you checked tire pressure?


Hmm, well that's a good thought, I will add that to the list. Thanks!


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## coreystooks (Aug 6, 2019)

Tire pressure wouldn't have an effect since the cutting units ride on their own rollers. You said you're rebounding from PGR, how long has it been between mows? Could have just gone too long between mows. The other likely cause is something I was dealing with about a month ago is that the bermuda just got so thick to the point where my mower was floating on parts and not on others causing it to scalp like yours in places. The only way to correct that is to verticut but going into September it may be too late especially with you being a bit further north. I would just raise the HOC slightly to finish out the season and then start next year with a good scalp all the way to the dirt.

Edit: Also I would verify the HOC to be the same all the way across the bedknife on all of the reels just to rule that out, sometimes the simple things can get us.


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## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

coreystooks said:


> Tire pressure wouldn't have an effect since the cutting units ride on their own rollers. You said you're rebounding from PGR, how long has it been between mows? Could have just gone too long between mows. The other likely cause is something I was dealing with about a month ago is that the bermuda just got so thick to the point where my mower was floating on parts and not on others causing it to scalp like yours in places. The only way to correct that is to verticut but going into September it may be too late especially with you being a bit further north. I would just raise the HOC slightly to finish out the season and then start next year with a good scalp all the way to the dirt.
> 
> Edit: Also I would verify the HOC to be the same all the way across the bedknife on all of the reels just to rule that out, sometimes the simple things can get us.


Ok good points @coreystooks. As far as time between mows, I'm trying to go no longer than 3 days, but we've had some heavy rains come through and I think the last mow was 4 days from the last. But yes, my main goal right now is to raise the HOC and hope for the best.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

andymac7 said:


> coreystooks said:
> 
> 
> > Tire pressure wouldn't have an effect since the cutting units ride on their own rollers. You said you're rebounding from PGR, how long has it been between mows? Could have just gone too long between mows. The other likely cause is something I was dealing with about a month ago is that the bermuda just got so thick to the point where my mower was floating on parts and not on others causing it to scalp like yours in places. The only way to correct that is to verticut but going into September it may be too late especially with you being a bit further north. I would just raise the HOC slightly to finish out the season and then start next year with a good scalp all the way to the dirt.
> ...


I was getting the exact same thing with my GM1000. I believe it was caused by what @andymac7 mentioned above. I have done four verticutting sessions over the past month and it has significantly improved the aftercut appearance and reduced the edge of the mower scalping. I agree that it is too late in the season for you to do a verticut in Ohio but something to think about next season. I plan on verticutting about every 10-15 days next season.


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## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

Redtwin said:


> andymac7 said:
> 
> 
> > coreystooks said:
> ...


Wow @Redtwin that seems to be really frequent verticutting! But hey, if it works, right? And what machine are you using for the job? I just talked the wife into the TriKing this year, so I'm not looking to shell out a ton of money on equipement, if you feel my pain :roll:

And just fyi, southern Ohio is a very different climate from most of the state  We're a good 10-12 degrees warmer than Columbus much of the time, and we're 2 hours away.


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## RangersFC (Jul 29, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> andymac7 said:
> 
> 
> > coreystooks said:
> ...


I plan on doing the same thing next year - verticut often. What are you currently using? I have a Swardman with a verticutter attachment, but it just isn't sharp enough and just pulls up runners. I was thinking of getting something similar to Ware's setup - a Classen TR-20 with the verdict attachment.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

The need for that much verticutting, suggests too much growth being pushed. Secondly, I look at reel set up as well. The reels that do not have enough relief angle ground into the reel blades and have a worn bedknife tend to have more problems with the grass not being actually cut. Last thing is actual height of cut. I see more problems with aftercut appearance when the grass is being kept too tall with a reel.


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## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> The need for that much verticutting, suggests too much growth being pushed. Secondly, I look at reel set up as well. The reels that do not have enough relief angle ground into the reel blades and have a worn bedknife tend to have more problems with the grass not being actually cut. Last thing is actual height of cut. I see more problems with aftercut appearance when the grass is being kept too tall with a reel.


Interesting @Greendoc. I was pushing growth in the beginning of the season, as I had some areas that needed to fill in. And yes, I've also noticed "rippling" with my TriKing, as if the grass is being "pulled up" at times instead of being snipped off. My temporary fix was to just drive slower, which did seem to help overall.

Also, let me ask a somewhat off-topic reel-newb question.. Is there some sort of unspoken rule for cutting while driving in reverse? I see the "up-and-down" maneuver a lot whenever I watch demos or videos of reel mowers, almost as if they stop and restart the cutting units every time they make a pass. Am I nuts for thinking this? Lol.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

@RangersFC @andymac7 I am just using a SunJoe. I have very sandy soil so it cuts through with ease. I wish it was a little wider but you can't beat it for the price. I bought it used from a friend for $60.

Thanks @Greendoc for the input. I have been moderately pushing growth this year but was pushing very hard last year and just had never done any verticutting. It was starting to do what I call "rafting" where flat sections of stolons would just pop up. I was also getting what felt like the rear roller fishtailing in the thicker spots so I feel it was getting to dense and needed to be thinned out. I recently replaced the bedknife but my reel is in need of a relief grind so that may be the issue. I also still have some leveling issues. The reason I have done so much verticutting is that I wanted to do passes in all directions. I am done beating it up for now and will allow it to get pretty again. It doesn't look too bad and the fishtailing and scalp marks have improved drastically. As far as the plan to do it every 10-15 days next season, this was based on a second-hand conversation with one of the local golf superintendents who mentioned that they veritcut "often" and he wished they could do it more often. I highly value your opinion so if I am overdoing things I greatly appreciate you telling me to simmer down. My every 10-15 day calculation was based on doing it every 5th mowing session which would allow me to rotate the direction.


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## cutigers08 (Aug 16, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> andymac7 said:
> 
> 
> > coreystooks said:
> ...


What are you using to verticut?


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## Passat774 (Oct 9, 2018)

I had the same thing occur, I raised my hoc and it now looks much better. Went from .65 to .80 and the apperance is much better.

I may take the suggestion and light verticut tomorrow.


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## potterwc (Jul 1, 2019)

andymac7 said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> > The need for that much verticutting, suggests too much growth being pushed. Secondly, I look at reel set up as well. The reels that do not have enough relief angle ground into the reel blades and have a worn bedknife tend to have more problems with the grass not being actually cut. Last thing is actual height of cut. I see more problems with aftercut appearance when the grass is being kept too tall with a reel.
> ...


I had the ripple effect and slowed down the frequency of cut on my 220E which reduced the rippling greatly, then I went with a thicker bedknife since I am mowing at 0.52" and it has completely disappeared. just a thought if you haven't considered your reel's set up.


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## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

Wow! Well, although my first HOC adjustment experience was not very fun, what a big difference after raising it up! This is about 1 1/8".


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## southernbuckeye (Sep 29, 2019)

Looking great! You could look into a groomer for your reel and engage it every other mow or so to keep thatch under control


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## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

southernbuckeye said:


> Looking great! You could look into a groomer for your reel and engage it every other mow or so to keep thatch under control


Thanks @southernbuckeye !

I do have a groomer I use about every other mow, and I did dethatch this spring.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

@andymac7 I'm having some of the same scalp marks showing up recently so I was contemplating a heavy verticut or raising HOC. I imagine your groomer is a big advantage too. Do you have grass catchers on your machine?


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## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

cglarsen said:


> @andymac7 I'm having some of the same scalp marks showing up recently so I was contemplating a heavy verticut or raising HOC. I imagine your groomer is a big advantage too. Do you have grass catchers on your machine?


Hey @cglarsen. As I understand in my limited knowledge, verticutting is a little more for clearing away thatch and debris and getting more air circulation to allow the grass to further thicken up. Others can correct me if I'm wrong. It certainly doesn't hurt, that's for sure.

If you're seeing what I was, it was simply elongated stems that needed to be "reset" to a lower height. So, I would suggest simply lowering the HOC down a 1/2", bagging/sweeping up the clippings, then raise the HOC back up a 1/2" or maybe even more, depending on the height you like your grass. Since it's still July, the bermuda would green back up in no time, and you shouldn't see nearly the brown stems as you do now.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

@andymac7 If the scalp marks are caused by the mower floating on the turf, then thinning the canopy by verticutting is what would fix it. If you are just getting scalp marks without the float, then the HOC reset you described is what is in order.


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## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

Redtwin said:


> @andymac7 If the scalp marks are caused by the mower floating on the turf, then thinning the canopy by verticutting is what would fix it. If you are just getting scalp marks without the float, then the HOC reset you described is what is in order.


Yup, makes sense.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

Redtwin said:


> @andymac7 If the scalp marks are caused by the mower floating on the turf, then thinning the canopy by verticutting is what would fix it. If you are just getting scalp marks without the float, then the HOC reset you described is what is in order.


My Tahoma is getting extremely dense and that's where I've been seeing it the worst so I think it's floating. Is this the time of year to start verticutting or should it have been performed already?


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I think you are good to verticut anytime the grass is growing vigorously. I see the streaks worse in the thicker areas as well.


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## ZachUA (Dec 28, 2018)

If you liked the old height of cut that you were keeping it at, then you may consider doing a reset on the hoc by scalping it and then allowing it to grow back up to the original cutting height. Raising the height of cut also works, but eventually the brown will catch back up to the new green you have on top.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

@andymac7 this is a good resource to bookmark:

Toro Aftercut Appearance Troubleshooting Guide


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## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

Ware said:


> @andymac7 this is a good resource to bookmark:
> 
> Toro Aftercut Appearance Troubleshooting Guide


This is great, thanks @Ware :thumbup:


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## JayGo (Jun 13, 2019)

Ware said:


> @andymac7 this is a good resource to bookmark:
> 
> Toro Aftercut Appearance Troubleshooting Guide


It is impressive to see the amount of educational resources that Toro makes available with regard to their reel mowers. They make me want to buy one of their machines.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Hey, I'm going to bring this old thread up again as I had a rookie mistake which was causing streaks all the way across my pattern. I was checking the HOC on my Flex 21 using the front roller and rear drum like I do with my GM1000. While troubleshooting why I was getting the streaks, I completely removed the cutting unit to backlap and check bearings. I then measured HOC between the two rollers on the cutting unit and it was way different than using the rear roller. I guess my rear drum is not level or alligned perfectly with the cutting unit but all it does is push it around so by correcting the adjustment on the unit, I no longer have the constant streaking. It still floats some in the thick areas but I can deal with that.


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## JayGo (Jun 13, 2019)

@Redtwin, I'm trying to visualize this am having trouble. How did you check if the rear drum was level?


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I couldn't. The streaking went away when I measured my HOC from the front two rollers and ignored the drive drum on the Flex 21. On the GM1000 there is only one front roller so you have to use the drive drum.


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## Boy_meets_lawn (Sep 27, 2020)

The floating heads you check hoc and parallel with the front and rear rollers. The rear drum doesn't play into setup at all, all it does is propell the mower.

On a fixed unit the rear drum needs to be checked for parallel as it affects hoc.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Boy_meets_lawn said:


> The floating heads you check hoc and parallel with the front and rear rollers. The rear drum doesn't play into setup at all, all it does is propell the mower.
> 
> On a fixed unit the rear drum needs to be checked for parallel as it affects hoc.


This is the lesson I learned. I was using the rear drum on my Flex21 and it was not level and causing the streaks. My cut quality looks awesome now.


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