# Poa annua control in tall fescue?



## Oregonseed (May 22, 2019)

Curious what people are using to control poa annua in established tall fescue lawns. I have had mixed results with various products, what do you use? When do you apply?


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

Best method is pre-m. I prefer prodiamine as I spray it and it's much cheaper that way. Get it down before the POA germinates and it will eliminate nearly all of it. Another app in the spring. If it's already germinated Tenacity works but is slow and will take several apps to completely kill it.


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## troksd (Jul 27, 2018)

Oregonseed said:


> Curious what people are using to control poa annua in established tall fescue lawns. I have had mixed results with various products, what do you use? When do you apply?


Ethofumesate is most effect at controlling Poa. U will need 3 applications. Tank mixing with Tenacity will enhance the control, but will reduce seed germination. Mix of Tenacity, Ethofumesate (Prograss, Poa Constrictor..)and Carfentrazone (Quicksilver) will kill the remaining Poa in early spring / late Winter.

Tenacity and Ethofumesate (Poa Constrictor) as pre-emergent.

A mix of Tenacity, Quicksilver, and Ethofumesate as post-emergent

Tnex to reduce seeds heads


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## ConvexityGrass (Oct 7, 2020)

Is there danger in tank mixing? Etho label has me paranoid (along with questions from the wife).

Also in general, just how dangerous is Ethifusemate?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

I've used a combination of pre-M and Tenacity. Of course, some biotypes may not respond to Tenacity due to natural resistance, so your results may vary. the grass factor has a great recent video on Tenacity. One thing I learned from it is that the ability to prevent Poa annua with it (e.g. when seeding) tends to be weak at best. As such, I almost always add a non-ionic surfactant to it. The post-emergence capability of the Mesotrione, especially with repeated apps, tends to zap or at least weaken any seedling Poa annua.

This year, I used Tenacity from September through early to mid October, and didn't apply my regular pre-M until last week. We'll see how that goes. I also switched up my pre-M AI...normally I was using Prodiamine or sometimes Dimension in late Summer, but this time I tried Team.

The area that used to have the worst infestation also got Certainty over the Summer prior to the Tenacity in September, but that's another story, and it was mostly for Poa Trivialis. Ironically, the biotype I have in that area may be resistant to that herbicide (which also ironically isn't even labeled for cool season turf anymore, but I have the old label still and will continue using it as long as I have it). Or, it could have been Poa Supina rather than Triv...but that's another other story. Bottom line, that stuff should have also knocked out any annua that tried to germinate, and it likely did, because I'm not seeing any.


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## cityofoaks (Sep 8, 2020)

PGRs have a profound effect on poa anna, if you can't use preemergent due to overseeding then pgr like Primo Maxx etc... will control poa so severely it won't even produce seed heads.


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## jcs43920 (Jun 3, 2019)

Depending on how bad the poa problem is you can hand pull it, use pre-emergents, liquid tenacity with Liquid fertilizer, dig and re-plug. Or spot glyphosate.

What I've done with my yard is just go out early in the morning when the ground is wet and hand pull it by the roots. Then have pre-emergents down in the fall and spring. If there is any real bad areas dig it out and repair with sod.


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## NELawn (May 7, 2019)

I have yet to figure out my poa-a problem.

I have a KBG lawn, so always assumed any bare patches would fill in on their own. Last year in an attempt to kill the poa-a once and for all I really stretched out the watering and counted on pre-m apps to keep it away.

It really hurt the lawn overall, but to my horror the poa-a did come back by October. Tenacity has never seemed to work great on the poa-a in my lawn and last year I tried to encourage KBG spread so passed on the Tenacity.

This year I babied the lawn back with twice a week watering to get it back to health and fertilized after the labor day.

The poa-a that survived the summer is striving, I am going to have to decide what to do. In guess hand pulling works 100%, but may do a Tencity app to get the seed heads to come up and ID it.

I really wish I could use something to take care of mature poa-a that survives the summer...


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

If you know how to apply it, two applications spaced 21-28 days apart of ethofumesate in the late fall/early winter will leave you 99% Poa free. In NC, Thanksgiving + Christmas are good times to apply. Etho is pre+post


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## ConvexityGrass (Oct 7, 2020)

CarolinaCuttin said:


> If you know how to apply it


I'm not sure I'm 100% on how to apply it


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

ConvexityGrass said:


> CarolinaCuttin said:
> 
> 
> > If you know how to apply it
> ...


Low carrier volume (roughly 1 gallon per thousand), spray only dry turfgrass (no dew!), add some AMS at 0.1-0.2 lbs N/M if available (not required, but helpful) and leave the spray on the leaf undisturbed for at least 24 hours. No irrigation, no mowing, no rain, and limit foot traffic as much as possible. Feel free to wash it in 36-48 hours after application.


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## nikmasteed (Apr 30, 2020)

@CarolinaCuttin 
I sprayed some ethofumesate about a week ago at label rates in 1gal/k in my fescue. I do see some minor effect on some areas of poa annua, but it's not clearly having efficacy.

Does etho provide much of a visual damage/impact to the poa? Also, I sprayed it in late afternoon/early eve and although the grass was dry, its definitely possible that dew started to form within a few hours after my application. Do you think that reduced efficacy?

I do know that it takes multiple apps and will do it again in 2 more weeks (and maybe a 3rd app in Dec?) but certainly would like to increase my knowledge on applying this herbicide as I'm taking it on. Thanks in advance!


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## Babaganoosh (Apr 21, 2019)

I actually just sprayed ethofumesate yesterday. Another application will be going down in four weeks. We'll see what happens


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## Michael58 (Aug 16, 2020)

I just ordered Ethofumesate to spray in about a week, I'm still mixed on spraying it with Tenacity or not. Are you using a NIS with Ethofumesate? If you spray it with Tenacity, does Tenacity+NIS affect it at all? My plan was to use Tenacity right around the same time anyway to get another 30 days of pre-M from it.

Also, the label says Ethofumesate has pre-M qualities for poa annua, but it doesn't say how long that lasts?


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

nikmasteed said:


> @CarolinaCuttin
> I sprayed some ethofumesate about a week ago at label rates in 1gal/k in my fescue. I do see some minor effect on some areas of poa annua, but it's not clearly having efficacy.
> 
> Does etho provide much of a visual damage/impact to the poa? Also, I sprayed it in late afternoon/early eve and although the grass was dry, its definitely possible that dew started to form within a few hours after my application. Do you think that reduced efficacy?
> ...


The label says that it works as a post emergent through the two leaf stage, I'm going to do a small test plot this year but I don't know how effective it is on mature Poa plants. I assume it does something, but I'm not sure exactly how much.

Definitely do at least a second applications and see what happens, but as long as the grass was dry when you applied it and it had an hour or so to stick to the leaf then even if a little dew formed it shouldn't have hurt your uptake provided that it got over 24 hours without my irrigation or rain. Also, a little bit of AMS with the herbicide has worked well in my experience, so if you have it you can throw a little in there.


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

ConvexityGrass said:


> CarolinaCuttin said:
> 
> 
> > If you know how to apply it
> ...


@CarolinaCuttin I am just curious, you have mentioned this before. What do you have to know to apply it?


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

Bigdrumnc said:


> ConvexityGrass said:
> 
> 
> > CarolinaCuttin said:
> ...


Low carrier volume (roughly 1 gallon per thousand), spray only dry turfgrass (no dew!), add some AMS at 0.1-0.2 lbs N/M if available (not required, but helpful) and leave the spray on the leaf undisturbed for at least 24 hours. No irrigation, no mowing, no rain, and limit foot traffic as much as possible. Feel free to wash it in 36-48 hours after application.

If you didn't make a fall application then don't do one in the spring, it won't do anything. Ideally you do at least 2 well-timed apps in the fall.


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

No mso?


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## Michael58 (Aug 16, 2020)

Be careful not to overapply like I did in one spot, it killed off my TTTF...


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

I hand pulled a 5 gallon bucket of annua this weekend. It's not as bad as it sounds. Put on your favorite podcast and hang out in the yard for an hour or two a day.1000sf should be easy mode.


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

Lawn Noob said:


> I hand pulled a 5 gallon bucket of annua this weekend. It's not as bad as it sounds. Put on your favorite podcast and hang out in the yard for an hour or two a day.1000sf should be easy mode.


Same. I've been walking the lawn pulling it every day this week. This is my first year paying attention to Poa A. I overseeded with Tenacity last fall, but have it in areas that were thin from overseeding. Doing it after some rain helps too. I spot sprayed some Tenacity in a couple of the thin spots that had a dense bunch of young sprouts of PoA and it seems to have knocked them back too even though Tenacity doesn't label as a post-em for Poa A.

Hoping there is a return on investment in future years to hand pull and prevent this year from laying seed.


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## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

My expectations from fighting POA Annua is to expect a war of attrition. A single application won't eliminate it completely but it will knock it down. Keep on the pre-m and eventually things will be fine, just don't expect instant results.


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## smsrmdlol (Nov 29, 2020)

stevehollx said:


> Lawn Noob said:
> 
> 
> > I hand pulled a 5 gallon bucket of annua this weekend. It's not as bad as it sounds. Put on your favorite podcast and hang out in the yard for an hour or two a day.1000sf should be easy mode.
> ...


Hmm I should do this


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

So what happens if you do apply pro grass in the spring? What could one expect????!


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

Following. Does it make any sense to kill it? Unless you can before it drops seeds you still have to do a pre-m in the fall. Is it best to let the heat kill it?


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

Captquin said:


> Following. Does it make any sense to kill it? Unless you can before it drops seeds you still have to do a pre-m in the fall. Is it best to let the heat kill it?


I think the post-emergent strategy is usually applied around Thanksgiving and Christmas, so it's probably too late now. Also post-e for Poa A is $$$. I'd say it is better to hand pull what isn't intermingled, and then get on top pre-em in the Fall.

Cutting and bagging the next ~6wks may make sense to minimize seed if you have a lot. Seeds forming heavily here in my neighborhood. I recall heat killing it around mid-May. Maybe late May for VA then.


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

Bagging makes sense. May need to try that. Stuff is prolific and hard to control if overseeding


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## jojo67 (Mar 27, 2021)

Has anyone tried Xonerate 2sc (active ingredient amicarbazone)? It came up in a Google search as a post-emergent option.

Last fall (9/27) I sprayed Right Line (ethofumesate) and again 1/30/21, with little to no effect. Guess I'll try Tenacity, or maybe Xonerate 2sc?

Poa annua seems to be really blowing up this year in south Charlotte. It's all over my neighborhood now, and I don't recall really noticing it before.


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## Kissfromnick (Mar 25, 2019)

jojo67 said:


> Has anyone tried Xonerate 2sc (active ingredient amicarbazone)? It came up in a Google search as a post-emergent option.
> 
> Last fall (9/27) I sprayed Right Line (ethofumesate) and again 1/30/21, with little to no effect. Guess I'll try Tenacity, or maybe Xonerate 2sc?
> 
> Poa annua seems to be really blowing up this year in south Charlotte. It's all over my neighborhood now, and I don't recall really noticing it before.


2 apps of Xonerate 2sc will kill poa A.


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## jjainseattle (Jun 8, 2020)

I'm going with Prodiamine 65 WDG in the spring to knock down the crabgrass and then a second application in the fall to get at the Poa...Here's hoping!


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## Pezking7p (May 23, 2020)

If I applied a 4 month app of pre-M (prodiamine) in February, and I apply pre-m in the fall, is that enough to knock out the poa a thats popped up in my yard this year? Should I hand pull, too?

I don't think it's bad enough to spend money on chemicals for me.

I didn't get to do pre in the fall because I overseeded.


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

I think hand pulling is worthwhile.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Prem only helps with the seeds in the ground. The plants already on your lawn will be dropping more seeds soon. For those, you need to 1) chemical removal 2) mechanical removal or 3) hope for a hot and dry summer to kill them. In my irrigated lawn, they survive.


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## Pezking7p (May 23, 2020)

g-man said:


> Prem only helps with the seeds in the ground. The plants already on your lawn will be dropping more seeds soon. For those, you need to 1) chemical removal 2) mechanical removal or 3) hope for a hot and dry summer to kill them. In my irrigated lawn, they survive.


My understanding of pre-M was that it allowed seeds to germinate but root growth was blocked so the plants die. I also thought that poa died in the heat, for me maybe may-June timeframe?

I assumed the few plants I have (which are loaded with seed heads) will die soonish, and the seeds they drop in the meantime will be killed after germination by PreM.

Are you saying that I should be more concerned with the seeds that are being dropped?

I guess what I am asking is, if I'm OK with the amount of poa I have currently, can I stop it spreads by using PreM or should I spend the time to remove plants now?

Just want to make sure My understanding of poa, seeds, and PreM are correct before I have a poa lawn.

🙏


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Prodiamine will provide around 95-99% effectiveness in preventing poa a from getting established from seed. Nothing is 100%. The less seeds you have in the soil, the best.

The ones in your yard might die in the summer heat. Maybe. Sometimes. In a HOA common area without irrigation and no rain, then yes they most likely die. In a well cared lawn with irrigation, they will survive and or thrive.


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## Pezking7p (May 23, 2020)

g-man said:


> Prodiamine will provide around 95-99% effectiveness in preventing poa a from getting established from seed. Nothing is 100%. The less seeds you have in the soil, the best.
> 
> The ones in your yard might die in the summer heat. Maybe. Sometimes. In a HOA common area without irrigation and no rain, then yes they most likely die. In a well cared lawn with irrigation, they will survive and or thrive.


Thank you sir. Much appreciated.


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## Jersey_diy (Sep 5, 2020)

troksd said:


> Oregonseed said:
> 
> 
> > Curious what people are using to control poa annua in established tall fescue lawns. I have had mixed results with various products, what do you use? When do you apply?
> ...


What was the rate you put down Etho, Tenacity, and Quicksilver? Standard rate? Think I could substitue quicksilver with speedzone?


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## troksd (Jul 27, 2018)

Sorry for the late reply.

I use 1oz of Ethofumesate/k, a low rate of Tenacity, and 1 syringe of Carfentrazone to treat 5.1k lawn.



Jersey_diy said:


> troksd said:
> 
> 
> > Oregonseed said:
> ...


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## Kissfromnick (Mar 25, 2019)

If you see it pull it off. My neighbour is always laughing on me when I'm walking around and pulling something out but always asking me why I have no weed. Remember one year of seeds = seven years of weeds!!!


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## thebmrust (Jun 29, 2020)

Kissfromnick said:


> If you see it pull it off.... Remember one year of seeds = seven years of weeds!!!


🤔🤢 I'll be dead before I make it to a level two lawn. 😭😭😭


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## Stegs (Aug 29, 2017)

This fall i plan on doing a heavy overseed with TTTF in a established bluegrass lawn

I will be putting seed down mid august, and spraying poa constrictor at the same time

poa constrictor is ok to spray with TTTF seeding (can be done at the same time)

I plan on doing 2-3 apps of poa constrictor this fall, along with my normal prodiamine app

Ill see what comes thru next spring (poa A) and hit it again next spring


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## Mtnbikerva (May 2, 2021)

Stegs said:


> This fall i plan on doing a heavy overseed with TTTF in a established bluegrass lawn
> 
> I will be putting seed down mid august, and spraying poa constrictor at the same time
> 
> ...


How did it work out?


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## Mtnbikerva (May 2, 2021)

jojo67 said:


> Has anyone tried Xonerate 2sc (active ingredient amicarbazone)? It came up in a Google search as a post-emergent option.
> 
> Last fall (9/27) I sprayed Right Line (ethofumesate) and again 1/30/21, with little to no effect. Guess I'll try Tenacity, or maybe Xonerate 2sc?
> 
> Poa annua seems to be really blowing up this year in south Charlotte. It's all over my neighborhood now, and I don't recall really noticing it before.


How well Did it work?


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## Mtnbikerva (May 2, 2021)

troksd said:


> Sorry for the late reply.
> 
> I use 1oz of Ethofumesate/k, a low rate of Tenacity, and 1 syringe of Carfentrazone to treat 5.1k lawn.
> 
> ...


Results? Thank you


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## Jersey_diy (Sep 5, 2020)

The results were good but for the first month the lawn looked terrible because all of the poa was getting toasted. But it did a great job at reducing the amount of poa the next year. I think if I did it in the fall it would have been a way bigger kill rate.


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## Jay20nj (Jul 25, 2018)

Not as bad as it sounds cuz its even worse! I pulled 3, 5 gallon buckets in about 1500 sq feet. Have a blister on my poa picker… it sucks. Podcast shmodcast. Picking poa is awful.


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## Stegs (Aug 29, 2017)

Mtnbikerva said:


> Stegs said:
> 
> 
> > This fall i plan on doing a heavy overseed with TTTF in a established bluegrass lawn
> ...


Sorry for a slow reply. It seemed to work well. I dont see much poa a this spring

Im not poa a free, but it seems down as of right now.

I will say this, here in michigan it has been a very cold, wet spring. Soil temps are hovering around 50....

alot of kbg is just starting to turn green.

last fall i did the etho apps, and sprayed prodiamine.

this spring so far i have sprayed etho, prodiamine and did a fert app on april 1 with dithiopyr built in the fert

I think etho will hit it hard, but still pre emergent is just as important to break that cycle


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