# What is this? (Dense growth that looks like grass but thinner blades)



## Lawnmower_Man (Oct 1, 2017)

Hi guys,

Just curious about some inconsistent KBG grass that suddenly started to take place over the past couple of weeks.

Below is a closeup of what my KBG looks like in my lawn, along with a photo of some of the strange thick but fine patches (of what I hope is KBG) that has shown up in a couple places of my lawn.





*What is this stuff?

Is it anything I should be concerned about?*

I put new sod in my lawn late last year, and have only given this lawn one dose of 16-16-16 fertilizer about six weeks ago, along with a regular monthly dose of Alfalfa Horse Ration and Cracked Corn (as per recommended by the community here). However, there are some bits of corn in my grass that seems to be covered in mold (not sure if that matters).

Things have been dry, hot, and humid up here in Toronto, with inconsistent but heavy rainfall. The roots of my lawn are yellow, but the blades are a nice green (has been like this all summer). Same goes for this strange dense growth.

Any info is much appreciated.


----------



## Lawnmower_Man (Oct 1, 2017)

Is this "Chewing Fescue" grass? (I just looked it up online)

If so, is this something that can overtake my lawn and make it look less attractive?

Not sure how this occurred, but it's in the very early phase (only two patches on my lawn). Not sure what the next steps should be.


----------



## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

Grab the fine blades in the bottom picture and pull up gently. Does it pull out very easily like the roots were eaten off by grubs? Does it have stolons (like rhizomes, but above ground)? If it has stolons, grab a beer, drink it and then grab another before looking up the price of Xonerate herbicide. Looks like Poa trivialis to my untrained eye. I just discovered I have approximately 2000sf of it that I thought was just some weird shade loving type of grass.


----------



## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

First off, that first photo is awesome!

In the second photo, I have a horrible time identifying grass types from photos. That said, it sure looks to me like it could be _poa trivialis_. In cooler, drier regions, _poa trivialis_ goes dormant in the summer. However, in my area (similar latitude to you) where there's a fair bit of summer rainfall and I have a fair bit of shade, the _poa trivialis_ continues growing all summer. It looks a lot like what is in your photos. The _poa trivialis_ I get is also a lot "floppier" than the KBG - it likes to fall over when it gets longer.

Getting rid of it isn't easy. I just wrote up my latest plan in a different thread recently: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2746#p83839

Welcome to the club.


----------



## Lawnmower_Man (Oct 1, 2017)

Miggity said:


> Grab the fine blades in the bottom picture and pull up gently. Does it pull out very easily like the roots were eaten off by grubs? Does it have stolons (like rhizomes, but above ground)? If it has stolons, grab a beer, drink it and then grab another before looking up the price of Xonerate herbicide. Looks like Poa trivialis to my untrained eye.


Yes it pulls up easy and it does seem to look like stolons...or grubs, I dunno. Here is a photo:



However, my regular KBG has a similar issue that has been going on all summer, where the blades of the grass are completely yellow at the base, yet the blades always seem to be healthy and green the rest of the way.

Here is a photo of my KBG:

Is this normal?



*
Would it simply be easier to eliminate the Poa Trivialis by simply carving out that section of sod (a few inches deep) and replacing it with some new KBG sod?*


----------



## Lawnmower_Man (Oct 1, 2017)

ken-n-nancy said:


> Getting rid of it isn't easy. I just wrote up my latest plan in a different thread recently: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2746#p83839
> 
> Welcome to the club.


Thanks. We only have 3% Roundup here in Canada, but it's still pretty effective.

Does Poa spread quickly? 
I have a potential donor section of my lawn that I may be able to take the sod from (I will be adding some more paving stones into the area).

Not sure if I need to use RoundUp at all in this case.


----------



## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

I'm almost more incline to think it's bentgrass than triv. It's been so hot and dry this year I don't think triv could be so green. Plus it pulls up like how bent does. If it is bent, tenacity is an option. Other than that round up and dig up that area and plug with the same type of sod.


----------



## Harts (May 14, 2018)

www.lawnproducts.ca carries RoundUp concentrate that you can't get in Ontario. I'm in Mississauga and have ordered from them with no issues.


----------



## Lawnmower_Man (Oct 1, 2017)

Thanks.

So, is using RoundUp necessary...or can I simply just carve this stuff out and replace with KBG sod?

Also, why does all my grass have yellow base (toward the root) but green the rest of the way. Is this normal?


----------



## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

Lawnmower_Man said:


> Would it simply be easier to eliminate the Poa Trivialis by simply carving out that section of sod (a few inches deep) and replacing it with some new KBG sod?


Yes, in fact it is the preferred method. Glyphosate has been shown to be ineffective long term. Pull the grass manually and then remove the top 1" of soil to a diameter of 8-12" larger than the Poa was to also remove the stolons preventing reinfestation. Dispose of removed plant material and soil offsite. See my older posts for several photos to compare to your own. My county extension just confirmed mine is Poa trivialis.


----------



## Harts (May 14, 2018)

I don't have the experience to tell you if Glypho is the "best way." The link was merely a reference to let you know that we have options to get better products than the watered down crap our government has allowed.

As for the brown/yellow stalks you are seeing.....are you 100% certain that you purchased 100% KBG sod? Most lawns up here have a mixture of KBG, PRG and fescue. The brown stalks look like they could be PRG - I and a few others from the GTA on this board have a similar issue in the summer. It isn't something I am worried about.


----------



## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

Just to be clear, I didn't mean to imply that glyphosate is wrong or won't help - it will. Just don't expect it to be a total kill like it is with most weeds. This will be a multi year battle and there is no quick fix, especially on a homeowner scale and budget.


----------



## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Lawnmower_Man said:


> So, is using RoundUp necessary...or can I simply just carve this stuff out and replace with KBG sod?


Before resorting to roundup, do you have tenacity as it looks like bent grass to me. Spot spray and see if it gets bleached.

Although I'm a bit more cavalier and just go straight to roundup when clump of random grassy weeds pop up.



Lawnmower_Man said:


> Also, why does all my grass have yellow base (toward the root) but green the rest of the way. Is this normal?


What is your HOC right now? To me the yellow base is the shoot of the plant leading to crown. Higher cut of height, the shoot / crown grows up higher and then you have the green leafy portion. Mine was like that when I used to maintain a taller stand.


----------



## Harts (May 14, 2018)

@Miggity, I hope my "best way" comment didn't offend you. It certainly wasn't meant to.


----------



## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

Harts said:


> @Miggity, I hope my "best way" comment didn't offend you. It certainly wasn't meant to.


Not at all, but it did make me rethink my phasing and it sounding negative. I currently have over 3000sf of mostly poa triv and have been researching how to fix it once and for all. Sounds like there is no easy way to do it. I may go the nuclear route, but by using both Certainty and RoundUp for a better kill rate. Certainty is for warm season grasses, but if I'm killing the rest of the lawn anyway I don't see a downside other than cost.


----------



## Wolverine (Jan 17, 2018)

It looks 100% like bent grass. Tenacity will take it out. Be very careful with Certainity in cool season grass, I sprayed a spot last fall for Triv and am still in recovery mode. Very potent stuff with zero tolerance for mixture amounts.


----------



## Lawnmower_Man (Oct 1, 2017)

zeus201 said:


> Lawnmower_Man said:
> 
> 
> > So, is using RoundUp necessary...or can I simply just carve this stuff out and replace with KBG sod?
> ...


Oh, my 'Height of Cut' is pretty much as high as my lawnmower can go. Probably like 3 inches or something. Your explanation makes sense, considering how high I cut my grass.

Not sure if we have Tenacity in Canada, I'll look into it.

But now that I look at my lawn more closely, it looks as though I have a huge infestation (with several clumps all over my lawn).

Not sure if it makes sense trying to replace everything with sod.

Does tenacity selectively kill this bent grass once and for all? Or should I just go with the sod replacement?


----------



## Wolverine (Jan 17, 2018)

2 apps of Tenacity will kill bent grass.


----------



## jurkewycmi (Jun 3, 2018)

We dont have tenacity up here

order through https://www.seedworldusa.com/products/tenacity-herbicide

They ship to Canada. Could order other unavailable products at the same time, save on shipping.


----------



## Harts (May 14, 2018)

^ +1. To make it worth while, I'd look at getting pre-ems too - prodiamine or dimension. Surfactant and marking dye are other products we can't get here.

At shipping. Choose USPS. It will take a little longer but you will save on paying duties when it gets to the border.


----------



## Harts (May 14, 2018)

@Miggity good to hear. For what it's worth your post didn't come across as negative.


----------



## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Looks like bentgrass to me also. You can definitely permanently get rid of a patch of bent by just aggressively raking it with a dethatching rake when the ground is wet, replace the topsoil that will tear out with its shallow roots, and reseed. I had a couple of patches of it last year and just ripped them out that way. All gone this year.


----------



## Lawnmower_Man (Oct 1, 2017)

Just one more question or two...

1. Since I have to mow my lawn in the meantime...is it BAD to do so (does mowing over the bentgrass cause it to spread)?

2. Also, worst case, what is the drawback if I simply just let it co-exist with my KBG?


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Bentgrass spreads over time (at least the type that usually ends up in lawns in my area does...Creeping Bentgrass).


----------



## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

zeus201 said:


> Lawnmower_Man said:
> 
> 
> > So, is using RoundUp necessary...or can I simply just carve this stuff out and replace with KBG sod?
> ...


FYI, Poa Trivialis will bleach with Tenacity as well. So this won't distinguish between the two.


----------



## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

^ True. At least bentgrass will die off completely with tenacity. The triv will remain but at least OP will know after a couple applications.


----------



## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

Tenacity, marking blue, prodiamine and propiconazole make a nice Seedworld order.


----------

