# Monaco Bermuda grass?



## ScottM29

So, I live in the transition zone and have decided the best alternative for my back yard is bermuda grass after trying to beat it. :roll: Right now, the common Bermuda is doing well (and winning) since I've adjusted my cultural practices & fertilization schedule. More or less cutting lower, about 1.5 -2" with my rotary mower 2 times a week and fertilizing every 2 weeks with about 0.5lbs of N +/-. I have about 4k sq ft and the common is about 70% coverage. My goal is to kill and re-seed with a better Bermuda variety next year that would be appropriate for my area. Early research lead me to either Riviera or Yukon. The hard part is that I've never seen either of them up close and in person. So when I called the folks at Johnston Seed Co to ask questions about Riviera Bob Wiebelt asked if I knew about Monaco? "Nope", was my profound response. He said it was basically a newer variety of Riviera. He was kind enough to send me a small sample from a order that had been returned so I could see up close and in person. I knew it was too late this year to do too much but I thought I'd plant a test plot and document. I figure I could share with the group and let you all see the result as well as get some good feed back on how to move forward next spring/summer (if I like it)….the common is not too bad and I never thought I'd type that last part (ha ha) :lol: 
Sunday July 22nd - Seed in the ground. I got a small planter and some dirt from the local hardware store.





Watered by hand first few days and then after that we've had rain every day or should I say EVERY DAY since. Temps have been warm/hot upper 80s low 90s tons of humidity and very little sunlight. I need some sun to heat these little babies up!!!
Pictures from August 1st.





I'll try to add new pics every few days if there is interest.
Thanks-


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## Tellycoleman

interesting? I will follow along. Only thing bad about new grasses you dont know what chemicals they are sensitive to.
Imagine being the first with Yukon bermuda and applying a total broadcast spray of quinclorac.
Same could be true. I say go for it!!!!!! renovation 2019 baby!!!


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## Colonel K0rn

How do you expect to reel mow that grass with it in the planter?


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## ScottM29

Tellycoleman said:


> interesting? I will follow along. Only thing bad about new grasses you dont know what chemicals they are sensitive to.
> Imagine being the first with Yukon bermuda and applying a total broadcast spray of quinclorac.
> Same could be true. I say go for it!!!!!! renovation 2019 baby!!!


Thanks Telly. I would assume it needs to be treated much like Riviera based on what he told me. I'll try to get some pics tonight when I go home we had two nice warm sunny days finally. Should I get it any fert or milo? I've only watered it thus far.


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## ScottM29

Colonel K0rn said:


> How do you expect to reel mow that grass with it in the planter?


I'll hire this guy.....


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## Tellycoleman

I would ONLY use milo if you had it. or maybe miracle gro


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## ScottM29

Monaco grass as of Sunday the 5th. Finally getting some warm & sunny weather....


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## sanders4617

Very interested in the Monaco. I just seeded the Riviera. It has done very very well, but I didn't even know about that cultivar of theirs.

I seeded July 23, but we've had more sun. With temps generally in upper 80s until the last couple days of temps at 92-94.

I need to get an up close picture. They look identical at this point.


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## ScottM29

sanders4617 said:


> Very interested in the Monaco. I just seeded the Riviera. It has done very very well, but I didn't even know about that cultivar of theirs.
> 
> I seeded July 23, but we've had more sun. With temps generally in upper 80s until the last couple days of temps at 92-94.
> 
> I need to get an up close picture. They look identical at this point.


Sanders4617 - we seeded one day apart and I feel like your germination is crushing mine?!? MY first week was very cloudy and rainy, but I'm guessing yours was too if in live in AL. Keep posting picks it will be cool to compare the 2 types. Why did you choose Riviera over Yukon? Just curious.


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## sanders4617

May be because of you planting in that raised bed?

I've been applying GCF products to help as well - Humic12/RGS/Air8/MicroGreene

I also have done 1 round of Ammonium Sulfate at .2lb of nitrogen per 1000.

I chose Riviera because I had called Hogan Seed and was ordering a different type of grass, and decided that I'd try out some seeded Bermuda on a plot in the backyard (that has no trees blocking sun). He suggested the Riviera to me - claimed it was the best seed they had there (for Bermuda). He never mentioned Yukon to me.

So I didn't really do any research, just trusted his judgement.

Since then, I've read that Yukon may be a little better - but it's not much difference.

As far as weather goes.. we had a week period of pretty cloudy - with a couple big rain days. But we've had a decent amount of sun as well.


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## ScottM29

Here is last night the 9th of August - 18 days after seeding. Still thought I might be a little further along at this point (fuller). I noticed some of the blades are a little white as they make it to the surface. Is this normal? Never really paid that much attention before :shock:


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## sanders4617

Was there enough seed to get good coverage in that little area? And I didn't notice any white color to the blades of the Riviera as it made it to the surface.


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## sanders4617

Any updates on your grass?


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## ScottM29

Sorry guys - we are on vacation this week. Here are pics from last Saturday the 11th of Aug. This is 20 days after seeds in the ground.


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## ScottM29

Tuesday August 14th - 23 days after seeding.


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## ScottM29

Oh Boy came home from vacation today to this....it is really taking off!!! 
Today is 8/18 this is 27 days after seeding. I think I might have to break out the scissors tomorrow







Starting to get some good runners!!


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## sanders4617

Looking good! Pretty much indentical to what the Riviera is doing. I think it's a very good grass cultivar. Definitely a great alternative to sod.


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## ScottM29

sanders4617 said:


> Looking good! Pretty much indentical to what the Riviera is doing. I think it's a very good grass cultivar. Definitely a great alternative to sod.


Got any updated pics?


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## sanders4617

I need to take some up close pictures. One with my son was yesterday, the other was Wednesday. I had to reseed the bare area.

You can see the progression on my link in signature. I've been cutting mine though at 1" for past week.


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## ScottM29

Today is 8/21 one day short of a month. Gave it a bit of a snip - snip this morning?


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## jonthepain

My wife replanted my windowboxes with flowers last week. 

I miss using the scissors on my pet turf.


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## jonthepain

btw nc state gave monaco very high marks at their field day a few weeks ago. This is after 4 yrs.


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## sanders4617

@jonthepain Did they mention how it compares with Riviera? I'm debating going with Riviera or the Monaco if I seed my whole back yard. That or sprigs.


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## ScottM29

jonthepain said:


> btw nc state gave monaco very high marks at their field day a few weeks ago. This is after 4 yrs.


Oh thanks for the info. I had no idea this grass had been around so long. I was under the impression it was pretty new


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## ScottM29

Today's update:
8/22 one month. I noticed some yellowing this morning...not sure what this is about. We did get a boat load of rain Monday night. could it be too much water? Ideas??? Should I sprinkle a little milo?







But I did give it a fresh cut after work tonight :thumbup:


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## jonthepain

Monaco is new, the trials are just ending now after 4 years. If I can find my field day folder I'll post whatever they had on the various cultivars. I do remember, however, that Dr. Miller said that Monaco is an improved version of Riviera by the same breeder.

Too much water is indeed a possibility.


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## sanders4617

@ScottM29

Here is a picture looking straight down. Took this evening, low light.

Seeded July 23 and was overgrown today. Cut it down just before the picture. Not quite as short as I had been cause of 1/3 rule.


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## ScottM29

sanders4617 said:


> @ScottM29
> 
> Here is a picture looking straight down. Took this evening, low light.
> 
> Seeded July 23 and was overgrown today. Cut it down just before the picture. Not quite as short as I had been cause of 1/3 rule.


Man that looks FANTASTIC!!! Great work!!!


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## jonthepain

:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## sanders4617

Thanks. I've been applying GCF products and spoon feeding fertilizer to a strict schedule. Also been watering very strictly. I think all the above together makes for a successful turf.


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## ScottM29

Here is a picture my wife took for me yesterday August 26th (1 month & 4 days). I'm out of town all week so it is a bit unkept. She took the picture for me, but if I ask her to trim it with scissors she might think I'm crazy. :? Looks to be filling in nicely, not too sure on the color.



As I mentioned I'm out of town this week. I'm in Cooperstown NY for a week of baseball with my son. Major props to the crew up here - the fields are AMAZING. After 13 weeks of baseball with 104 teams each week - dont know how they do it.
Here is a pic of my son's HR ball. As a "grass nerd" I had to snap the pic.



More pics in a few days when we get back home.


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## sanders4617

With the Riviera.. I think the color is nice, but nothing yet that screams wow. I don't know how it will change or react as it gets more mature though. I have some wild common that butts right next to the Riviera, and the Riviera definitely has a better tone of green than the common.

Unfortunately, all signs aim towards me using a Dingo/Harley Rake and leveling my entire lawn, which will include the new Bermuda.


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## ScottM29

sanders4617 said:


> With the Riviera.. I think the color is nice, but nothing yet that screams wow. I don't know how it will change or react as it gets more mature though. I have some wild common that butts right next to the Riviera, and the Riviera definitely has a better tone of green than the common.
> 
> Unfortunately, all signs aim towards me using a Dingo/Harley Rake and leveling my entire lawn, which will include the new Bermuda.


@snaders4617 - Funny you should make the comparison to the common bermuda grass. I was having the same thought about my yard yesterday. I like the Monaco and I'm sure it will look fantastic, but I have really good looking large patches of common in my yard that have a nice green color and texture to them. Not sure I will have the time it takes for a full reno next summer with family activities growing at a geometric rate. Here is a pic of my common from a week ago



It would be easier to order a proplugger and cut and paste what I have....I love the idea of a full reno & beautiful turf grass - aughhhhhh so hard. Glad I have the winter to ponder


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## jonthepain




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## Tellycoleman

Hmmm


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## sanders4617

The Riviera I have looks great to be honest. I would have no problem seeding my whole backyard with it - an that may be what I end up doing.


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## ScottM29

Update from Saturday Sept. 1st. I've lost count on the days. Still have some "yellowing" and not quite as deep green as I was expecting. I know it's too early to tell plus I have not been giving it much except a few handfuls of milo here and there.


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## ScottM29

Quick update for those of you who are still curious. Yesterday is day 54 (i think)....
Temps are still upper 80's with lots of humidity. I've given a "handful" of milo about 10 days ago. 
I was thinking the Monaco would be a finer blade, I think if that is what I want I will have to go with a Tif 419 or a Celebration. Not sure how well they do in the dreaded transition zone...





After a quick snip...



Any guesses on this type of Bermuda? It's in the park downtown where they hold lots of outdoor concerts. it is beautiful. I'd say its about 1.5" and cut with a rotary mower....


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## ScottM29

(Last Friday:
temps still warm mid 80s in the day and low 60s at night



Now this is the what I believe to be common bermuda in the back yard on the same day:



I do see some slight improvements in color and texture. I'd say its going from a toyota to a lexus (if that much)

But I think if I'm going to do a reno in the spring I'd want to go "Ferrari" with maybe a TifWay 419 (that is the pic of the grass above)


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## sanders4617

I'm with you! I think I'm definitely gonna be sprigging this next year. Riviera is nice.. but it's still not quite up to vegetative level. Good luck


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## ScottM29

The Tifway 419 is totally on a different level (to me). I just don't see the cost/benefit trade off to killing my common and doing a reno with the Riviera. Too much time and effort for a marginal gain. I think next spring I might kill off a 20'x20' patch in the back and buy some plugs and let them fill in. Then I can have my own donor nursery and plug and chug a few smaller sections at at time. It will give me something to do. I know it will take a few years, but I'm ok with that. Maybe by the time it all fills in I'll know what the heck I'm doing - or not.


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## ScottM29

sanders4617 said:


> I'm with you! I think I'm definitely gonna be sprigging this next year. Riviera is nice.. but it's still not quite up to vegetative level. Good luck


The Tifway 419 is totally on a different level (to me). I just don't see the cost/benefit trade off to killing my common and doing a reno with the Riviera. Too much time and effort for a marginal gain. I think next spring I might kill off a 20'x20' patch in the back and buy some plugs and let them fill in. Then I can have my own donor nursery and plug and chug a few smaller sections at at time. It will give me something to do. I know it will take a few years, but I'm ok with that. Maybe by the time it all fills in I'll know what the heck I'm doing - or not.


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## ENC_Lawn

ScottM29 said:


> sanders4617 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm with you! I think I'm definitely gonna be sprigging this next year. Riviera is nice.. but it's still not quite up to vegetative level. Good luck
> 
> 
> 
> The Tifway 419 is totally on a different level (to me). I just don't see the cost/benefit trade off to killing my common and doing a reno with the Riviera. Too much time and effort for a marginal gain. I think next spring I might kill off a 20'x20' patch in the back and buy some plugs and let them fill in. Then I can have my own donor nursery and plug and chug a few smaller sections at at time. It will give me something to do. I know it will take a few years, but I'm ok with that. Maybe by the time it all fills in I'll know what the heck I'm doing - or not.
Click to expand...

I acutally think this is a good idea. In hindsight I wish I would of done that as well. With a fast growing grass like Bermuda...a nice 1,000 square feet of SOD in my area is only about 600 dollars with delivery. Buy the pro plugger and with some patience you can have a beutiful yard at a fraction of the price.


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## William

So I have common Bermuda. Would it be any benefit to overseas with Riveria or a different Bermuda blend?


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## FlaDave

William said:


> So I have common Bermuda. Would it be any benefit to overseas with Riveria or a different Bermuda blend?


From what I've gathered its really not a good idea. I spread some seed in a test area before joining this forum and it looks completely different from my common. A nice lawn should be uniform texture and color. Each cultivar has certain subtle differences that can be noticeable up close and even from a distance (more so color wise.) Overseeding an established bermuda lawn will lead to little or no germination. Also depending on who you ask, common bermuda could be wild common(seeded type) or tif 419 I believe(sterile type, sod/plug/sprig only.) If you are determined to seed a new cultivar of bermuda, your best bet is to kill off your existing grass before seeding.


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## William

Thanks.... I presume common. It was soded from the builder and my presumption is they used the cheapest they could get. It was full of beetles and other insects. Thanks to MQ's thread those are all dead now. I have aeraterated, fertilized. A bit later I de-thatched and fertilized. I was hoping to stress it out to where it would die, think week zero of ranger school, but no such luck.


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## sanders4617

@William if you get it under a good program, that Bermuda will look good. Pre emergent is huge.

And then a good consistent fertility program with watering (when needed)... plus a very consistent mowing schedule. Dont break the 1/3 rule.

That alone (plus spot treating weeds) will give you an incredible lawn. Especially since you've already got the bugs out and done the aeration and dethatch.

And to top it off.. you could always add some soil enhancements like Humic.. and fungicide haha.

Now you've spent a good bit, but you got a great lawn. In theory.


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## TN Hawkeye

sanders4617 said:


> @William if you get it under a good program, that Bermuda will look good. Pre emergent is huge.
> 
> And then a good consistent fertility program with watering (when needed)... plus a very consistent mowing schedule. Dont break the 1/3 rule.
> 
> That alone (plus spot treating weeds) will give you an incredible lawn. Especially since you've already got the bugs out and done the aeration and dethatch.
> 
> And to top it off.. you could always add some soil enhancements like Humic.. and fungicide haha.
> 
> Now you've spent a good bit, but you got a great lawn. In theory.


Absolutely agree with this. While it may not ever be as soft or as dark green as some of the other Bermuda cultivars, a common Bermuda lawn can be a very nice yard. I'm in year one of transitioning my front yard from mostly fescue to hopefully all common Bermuda. I've made some mistakes along the way but there is a lot of solid advice and knowledge here to guide you. Starting as a complete newbie to Bermuda I was able to get the Bermuda to spread and thicken up in part of one season. Be sure to post progress pics. Those are the best.


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## William

So in another thread I posted my "dethatch" results. With such a new lawn I was surprised. Yard is max 16 months olds. Anyhow here are the high points of my dethatch.


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## William

TN Hawkeye said:


> sanders4617 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @William if you get it under a good program, that Bermuda will look good. Pre emergent is huge.
> 
> And then a good consistent fertility program with watering (when needed)... plus a very consistent mowing schedule. Dont break the 1/3 rule.
> 
> That alone (plus spot treating weeds) will give you an incredible lawn. Especially since you've already got the bugs out and done the aeration and dethatch.
> 
> And to top it off.. you could always add some soil enhancements like Humic.. and fungicide haha.
> 
> Now you've spent a good bit, but you got a great lawn. In theory.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely agree with this. While it may not ever be as soft or as dark green as some of the other Bermuda cultivars, a common Bermuda lawn can be a very nice yard. I'm in year one of transitioning my front yard from mostly fescue to hopefully all common Bermuda. I've made some mistakes along the way but there is a lot of solid advice and knowledge here to guide you. Starting as a complete newbie to Bermuda I was able to get the Bermuda to spread and thicken up in part of one season. Be sure to post progress pics. Those are the best.
Click to expand...

Very nice lawn.


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## William

Oh, I know I have weed issues and put down Celsius to combat it.


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## ScottM29

TN Hawkeye said:


> sanders4617 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @William if you get it under a good program, that Bermuda will look good. Pre emergent is huge.
> 
> And then a good consistent fertility program with watering (when needed)... plus a very consistent mowing schedule. Dont break the 1/3 rule.
> 
> That alone (plus spot treating weeds) will give you an incredible lawn. Especially since you've already got the bugs out and done the aeration and dethatch.
> 
> And to top it off.. you could always add some soil enhancements like Humic.. and fungicide haha.
> 
> Now you've spent a good bit, but you got a great lawn. In theory.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely agree with this. While it may not ever be as soft or as dark green as some of the other Bermuda cultivars, a common Bermuda lawn can be a very nice yard. I'm in year one of transitioning my front yard from mostly fescue to hopefully all common Bermuda. I've made some mistakes along the way but there is a lot of solid advice and knowledge here to guide you. Starting as a complete newbie to Bermuda I was able to get the Bermuda to spread and thicken up in part of one season. Be sure to post progress pics. Those are the best.
Click to expand...

TN Hawkeye - That "common" bermuda looks fantastic - great work. If I could get my existing bermuda that thick I know I would not look into a full reno next year -


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## TN Hawkeye

Thank you. I put it through a little stress last month with Celsius but it has bounced back. I'm really looking forward to next year.


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## J_nick

I renovated with Riviera last growing season. Check out my Reno in my signature. I did a recap on page 13 of the highlights if you don't want to read the whole thing.

On the debate about would it be worth it to convert common to an improved cultivar I would do it again without hesitation. I maintained common at .75-.825" and while I haven't let the Riviera get up that high .375-.625" it's a night and day difference between the two. I can try to get some close up pics tomorrow to show you how dense it is.


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## ScottM29

J_nick said:


> I renovated with Riviera last growing season. Check out my Reno in my signature. I did a recap on page 13 of the highlights if you don't want to read the whole thing.
> 
> On the debate about would it be worth it to convert common to an improved cultivar I would do it again without hesitation. I maintained common at .75-.825" and while I haven't let the Riviera get up that high .375-.625" it's a night and day difference between the two. I can try to get some close up pics tomorrow to show you how dense it is.


@J_nick Pics would be fantastic. I did enjoy your Riviera reno, read it 2 or 3 times :thumbup: My issue is HOC, I don't have a reel mower yet and if I go much below 1.5" with my Honda I get "nice" scalp marks. I want to do more leveling with sand this spring as well as verticutting. I would hope that would help thicken up the grass. I want to do a full reno in the back yard, but right now and next year my weekends will be compromised with 13U baseball. But until then I want the lawn I have to look as nice a possible (that's way I'm here)... Do you recommend verticutting & leveling together or apart? Should one be done before the other? OR is that a waste of time and I should hold off until I can nuke the yard?


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## J_nick

They aren't the greatest pictures. It's been misting here all day.


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## ENC_Lawn

TN Hawkeye said:


> sanders4617 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @William if you get it under a good program, that Bermuda will look good. Pre emergent is huge.
> 
> And then a good consistent fertility program with watering (when needed)... plus a very consistent mowing schedule. Dont break the 1/3 rule.
> 
> That alone (plus spot treating weeds) will give you an incredible lawn. Especially since you've already got the bugs out and done the aeration and dethatch.
> 
> And to top it off.. you could always add some soil enhancements like Humic.. and fungicide haha.
> 
> Now you've spent a good bit, but you got a great lawn. In theory.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely agree with this. While it may not ever be as soft or as dark green as some of the other Bermuda cultivars, a common Bermuda lawn can be a very nice yard. I'm in year one of transitioning my front yard from mostly fescue to hopefully all common Bermuda. I've made some mistakes along the way but there is a lot of solid advice and knowledge here to guide you. Starting as a complete newbie to Bermuda I was able to get the Bermuda to spread and thicken up in part of one season. Be sure to post progress pics. Those are the best.
Click to expand...

TN Hawkeye....that might be the best pic of common bermuda I have ever seen.


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## TN Hawkeye

ENC_Lawn said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sanders4617 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @William if you get it under a good program, that Bermuda will look good. Pre emergent is huge.
> 
> And then a good consistent fertility program with watering (when needed)... plus a very consistent mowing schedule. Dont break the 1/3 rule.
> 
> That alone (plus spot treating weeds) will give you an incredible lawn. Especially since you've already got the bugs out and done the aeration and dethatch.
> 
> And to top it off.. you could always add some soil enhancements like Humic.. and fungicide haha.
> 
> Now you've spent a good bit, but you got a great lawn. In theory.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely agree with this. While it may not ever be as soft or as dark green as some of the other Bermuda cultivars, a common Bermuda lawn can be a very nice yard. I'm in year one of transitioning my front yard from mostly fescue to hopefully all common Bermuda. I've made some mistakes along the way but there is a lot of solid advice and knowledge here to guide you. Starting as a complete newbie to Bermuda I was able to get the Bermuda to spread and thicken up in part of one season. Be sure to post progress pics. Those are the best.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> TN Hawkeye....that might be the best pic of common bermuda I have ever seen.
Click to expand...

Thank you. It's struggling a little now as temps are cooling off. I got my pre-em down so I'm interested to see how weed pressure is this winter. I still have some pesky fescue popping up but nowhere near where it was in the spring. I hope next season to lower it down some and really get the color dark.


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## ENC_Lawn

TN Hawkeye said:


> ENC_Lawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TN Hawkeye said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely agree with this. While it may not ever be as soft or as dark green as some of the other Bermuda cultivars, a common Bermuda lawn can be a very nice yard. I'm in year one of transitioning my front yard from mostly fescue to hopefully all common Bermuda. I've made some mistakes along the way but there is a lot of solid advice and knowledge here to guide you. Starting as a complete newbie to Bermuda I was able to get the Bermuda to spread and thicken up in part of one season. Be sure to post progress pics. Those are the best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TN Hawkeye....that might be the best pic of common bermuda I have ever seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you. It's struggling a little now as temps are cooling off. I got my pre-em down so I'm interested to see how weed pressure is this winter. I still have some pesky fescue popping up but nowhere near where it was in the spring. I hope next season to lower it down some and really get the color dark.
Click to expand...

What HOC are you using in the picture?


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## TN Hawkeye

ENC_Lawn said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ENC_Lawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> TN Hawkeye....that might be the best pic of common bermuda I have ever seen.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. It's struggling a little now as temps are cooling off. I got my pre-em down so I'm interested to see how weed pressure is this winter. I still have some pesky fescue popping up but nowhere near where it was in the spring. I hope next season to lower it down some and really get the color dark.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What HOC are you using in the picture?
Click to expand...

2.75". I was quite amazed at how quickly the Bermuda spread and thickened up when I scalped down from 4.25" to 2.25" and let it grow up to 2.75". Id like to be at either 1.75" or 2.25" next year. I'm sure I'll find out during the spring scalp just how much leveling I'll need to do to get to 1.75".


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## ScottM29

November 2nd Update:
So I took these pictures this weekend. I know it has been a while but thought a few of you might be asking about the color. We have had 3 or 4 nights down into the low 40s a week or so ago. Now we are going to hit the 70's later this week so it is a bit of a roller coaster. The yard which I believe is common bermuda is holding color better than I thought it would. I haven't had to cut it in a week so it has just about stopped growing. I may transplant this over by my shed as it looks to blend well together.





The spot at the top was from the bottom falling out of our fire-pit :roll:


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