# Thinking about a lawn renovation in the spring time



## 98rzvr6 (Sep 26, 2018)

Hey guys, I just recently joined this forum and really loving it so far. I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan and my lawn consists of a lot of PR grass, some old turf type fescue and some *** and whatever else there is. Im really thinking about completely killing off my yard next year in the spring time and only put down the GCI Turf Tall Type fescue grass seed, I really love that look and it seems like it is much more resistant to the heat stress. My grass looks pretty good now but I would like that deep dark green look and I am wondering if I just have to scalp my yard as low as i can and then just add a bunch of seed over that or do i have to completely remove all of the old grass, get new top soil and then seed? Thanks for the help guys


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## 98rzvr6 (Sep 26, 2018)

Just to add, i have around 12k square feet and I do have irrigation


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

Here is a good video to start with. Most who renovate completely kill their lawns with glyphosate. What you described is refered to as overseeding if you do not kill the existing grass. Seeding in the spring is tough. The grass will come up fine, but it is very difficult to keep it going through the summer heat. Most do renos in the fall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrafN8nq5AQ


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Welcome to TLF!

Agree with Jesse. Spring seeding is tough. Hell, fall seeding can be tough! If you haven't already give the Cool Season Lawn Guide a read.


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## 98rzvr6 (Sep 26, 2018)

Thanks guys, i really appreciate it. Lets say i do kill all of the old grass and just leave it, put some new seed down from GCI, will the old grass somehow come back or no? I will need a new layer of top soil, right?


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## GMM (Jul 18, 2018)

98rzvr6 said:


> Thanks guys, i really appreciate it. Lets say i do kill all of the old grass and just leave it, put some new seed down from GCI, will the old grass somehow come back or no? I will need a new layer of top soil, right?


Unless you just missed spraying it, that old grass is dead. You'll also need to physically remove a lot of it before throwing down new seed.

You don't have to bring in new topsoil, I did my entire renovation using just a slit seeder with no top dressing and it is working out fine.


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## Wolverine (Jan 17, 2018)

Welcome to the site. I am in Zeeland just west of you. My plan is to kill and fallow starting in May probably 3 times. I have leveling to do and will plan on a KBG seed down date of August 1. I also have irrigation.


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## Belgianbillie (Apr 3, 2018)

I always felt that spring seeding can be doable as long as the area you are overseeding is covered by shade?. If it is full sun i wouldnt dare.


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

IMO the biggest problem with spring seeding is the weed control. DO NOT skip Tenacity and get a real pre-emergent down as soon as possible (once the new grass has been mown a few times) The number of lawns I've seen this summer that seeded in the spring and are now 100% crabgrass is crazy.

I actually found establishment and growth easier in the spring but I do have a sprinkler system. The front slope I had to do in the spring because the fall I tried germination blankets that prevented growth. That slope came in thicker faster than when I did the rest in the fall.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

I think it really depends on the type of grass you want to plant. For kbg I would not even consider it with the cooler temps of the soil it would take forever for it to germinate. A lot of things can happen in that time. Now for tttf & rye that is very doable as long as you do good prep work. I did 2 renos this spring with just northern mix seed and both made it through the summer.
You need to have an irrigation plan...this is probably your most critical step.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

As everyone has said, Spring is very difficult. But if you don't want to wait, the steps you will want to take are:

2-3 rounds of Glyphosate a week apart. Water and Nitrogen in between each app to encourage more growth so you can kill all of it. Scalp in between each app as well. After the last app, scalp to remove as much dead grass as you can.

Then add soil to level any uneven areas. Seed, Starter fert, roll, tenacity, peat moss, water.

The issue with doing a complete reno in the Spring is when to start. If you do 3 rounds of glyphosate, that's 3 weeks right there. Even if you start at the end of March, assuming all of your snow is gone and the freezing temperatures won't come back, that takes you almost to the end of April before you are getting your seed down. That doesn't give you much time for the grass to establish to the point it can handle the summer heat.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Are there any warm season grasses that are not extremely difficult to kill (obviously not Bermuda/Zoysia)?

If so, has anyone tried seeding a warm season grass in the spring and kill it for a fall seeding?

Kind of like the reverse of PRG winter seedings down south.

I imagine the issue with this is that warm season grasses are all hard to remove once established...


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Harts said:


> As everyone has said, Spring is very difficult. But if you don't want to wait, the steps you will want to take are:
> 
> 2-3 rounds of Glyphosate a week apart. Water and Nitrogen in between each app to encourage more growth so you can kill all of it. Scalp in between each app as well. After the last app, scalp to remove as much dead grass as you can.
> 
> ...


For those that suffer with bermuda/zoysia, this becomes a bigger problem since they come out of dormancy in late spring. Then seeding really happens in early to mid summer.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

98rzvr6 said:


> Hey guys, I just recently joined this forum and really loving it so far. I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan and my lawn consists of a lot of PR grass, some old turf type fescue and some *** and whatever else there is. Im really thinking about completely killing off my yard next year in the spring time and only put down the GCI Turf Tall Type fescue grass seed...


In general, spring renovations of cool-season grasses are more challenging than fall renovations.

However, the further north one is, the greater the likelihood of success. Once one gets far enough north (say Edmonton, Canada) the spring renovation actually has a higher likelihood of success than the fall renovation.

So, being in Michigan, you've got a better shot than most of the USA in doing a successful spring lawn renovation.

Success also increases with grass types that germinate and establish faster. PRG is faster than TTFF or FF, which are faster than KBG. TTFF gives you a reasonable shot, as it's also pretty heat-tolerant.

You're too late for fall. The worst that can happen in the spring renovation attempt is that it fails, you end up with mostly weeds, then kill it all off in late July and try again in the fall. Best case, you have a reasonable-looking lawn by the 4th of July.

Better to try a 2019 spring renovation at this point than to try to squeeze in one before winter this year.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Mozart said:


> Are there any warm season grasses that are not extremely difficult to kill (obviously not Bermuda/Zoysia)?


Crabgrass.

Tenacity wipes it out with just about 100% control, and wouldn't adversely affect most cool-season grass seedings.

However, the thought of intentionally seeding crabgrass into the lawn kind of makes me cringe. I also have no idea where one could actually buy crabgrass seed!


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

ken-n-nancy said:


> Mozart said:
> 
> 
> > Are there any warm season grasses that are not extremely difficult to kill (obviously not Bermuda/Zoysia)?
> ...


:lol: very true!! I'm sure a little crabgrass seed goes a long way haha. Good time to harvest seed from roadside public property :lol:

On that note, maybe Nimblewill is an option? Less ugly than crabgrass (IMO) but reasonably easy to control with Tenacity.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Harts said:
> 
> 
> > As everyone has said, Spring is very difficult. But if you don't want to wait, the steps you will want to take are:
> ...


@Suburban Jungle Life that's exactly the point. You won't get a complete kill on a lawn that isn't growing in the early spring. I know my lawn doesn't really start to grow out of dormancy until sometime in April, depending on weather.

Looking at the OP's location as Grand Rapids, it's on a similar latitude as Toronto. And although most Americans think it snows year round up here, there are places in the US that get far more snow and much colder winters than we do in the Greater Toronto Area :lol:

With all that being said, if I tried a Spring reno, I most likely wouldn't get to killing the grass until mid-April. That takes me into May before seed goes down.

It isn't impossible to do. But there are many more factors working against you then there are in the Fall. After seeing the amount of time, effort and money I put into my reno this past August (and it was only ~ 200sf), I would want to make sure I have as many variables working in my favour as possible. I would NOT want to re-do this and waste everything that went into it.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

For Michigan, you could start the kill in late May and seed in July. If you have irrigation, then it is just keeping it watered thru late July/August. I think fusebox7 did this for his reno.


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