# should I be worried this TTTF wont germinate?



## bentz69 (Jun 12, 2018)

I am 7 days post seeding GCI TTTF 6lbs/1k sqft. I am only worried because I sprayed prodiamine in April at a 7 month rate. However, I scratched the soil surfuce throughly and core areated with several passes....

Before seeding I did the following on 8/31,

Cut low (1.75")
Raked/removed clippings
Detached with 2 passes, raked and blow clean. Removed appx 25 bags of thatch over 8k sqft of lawn
core aerated with numerous passes using a tow-behind 
seeded with GCI TTTF 6lbs/1k sqft
lighlty raked the whole lawn to turn the seed for good soil contact
drove the JD x300 tractor over the lawn literally 50-60x in place of a roller
spread scotts starter fert and scotts diseaseEx

I have been watering 6x/day for roughly 9 minutes per zone (I have 7 zones). each watering cycle is broken up to water for 3 minutes at a time then skip to the next zone to avoid puddling in the bare dirt. The ground is always moist

I am starting to see some sprouting in a few areas as of 2 days ago but it looks strange. Meaning, large bare dirt areas are only sprouting in small sections.

Do I need more paitence or is there a problem here? The existing grass is easily over 2.5 inches at this point.


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## The_Urban_Griot (Aug 29, 2020)

It takes time. Depending on the cultivar and other environmental factors like soil temp, it can take up to 14 days to germinate. I have seen times where I saw nothing for days and then one morning there is a sea of lime green seedling.


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## Ngilbe36 (Jul 23, 2020)

I threw down some extra GCI Cool Blue seed I had in a few areas that I HAD put down fall pre-em already. I wasnt expecting anything to happen, but I had about 3 cups of seed left in my bucket. I ripped the soil up good. With no irrigation besides rain. I am seeing grass babies in under 7 days. So I think there is an issue on your side of the fence. 
My properly prepared and irrigated reno was germinating in 4 days.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

Keeping things wet will slow down the germination. Are these slower spots wetter than others?


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## bentz69 (Jun 12, 2018)

The_Urban_Griot said:


> It takes time. Depending on the cultivar and other environmental factors like soil temp, it can take up to 14 days to germinate. I have seen times where I saw nothing for days and then one morning there is a sea of lime green seedling.


I'm hoping it's just time. But the way it appears to be growing in small patches has me concerned.



Ngilbe36 said:


> I threw down some extra GCI Cool Blue seed I had in a few areas that I HAD put down fall pre-em already. I wasnt expecting anything to happen, but I had about 3 cups of seed left in my bucket. I ripped the soil up good. With no irrigation besides rain. I am seeing grass babies in under 7 days. So I think there is an issue on your side of the fence.
> My properly prepared and irrigated reno was germinating in 4 days.


There is germination in plenty of areas of but uniformly wide spread



badtlc said:


> Keeping things wet will slow down the germination. Are these slower spots wetter than others?


I was under the impression that the ground should be moist essentially all the time to prevent the seed from drying out.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

bentz69 said:


> I was under the impression that the ground should be moist essentially all the time to prevent the seed from drying out.


Moist, yes. Wet, no. There is a balance.


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## bentz69 (Jun 12, 2018)

badtlc said:


> bentz69 said:
> 
> 
> > I was under the impression that the ground should be moist essentially all the time to prevent the seed from drying out.
> ...


I'll back down some of the zones by a few minutes to see if that helps but my gut says there's more to it than just some extra water


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## pinocchio (Jul 29, 2020)

I'm in the same boat with KBG. It's been about 9 days and this is what I have. I may have been trying to keep my grass too wet as well.


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## bentz69 (Jun 12, 2018)

pinocchio said:


> I'm in the same boat with KBG. It's been about 9 days and this is what I have. I may have been trying to keep my grass too wet as well.


They say kbg takes up to 21 days to germinate so you still have some time. I'm seeing 4 to 10 days for tttf.

I am on day 10 post seeding and this is where I'm at. I think I'm in trouble. Any of the pros out there have any recommendations for me? @Harts @g-man Should I even bother throwing down more seed? Can I wait till the end of September to try again? Temperatures are still in the 80s at this point. Or am I looking at a spring seeding


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Is that TTTF? If so and if it were me I would break up all the bare ground (garden weasel or sturdy rake), throw a ton of seed down and pray.

And what is really odd is for my complete RENO I used straw (no irrigation) and grass came in everywhere but my overseed + peat moss w/irrigation has been hit or miss.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The pictures look too moist/wet. It could cause some rot if it is staying too wet. You might need a flashlight picture in the am to see the grass better.


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## CDarb (Jan 28, 2020)

I'm on Long Island as well...

6 times daily seems like a lot of water. I live mid island and I watered 8am, 11am, 2am, 5;30am for 5 minutes a zone. I put down straight Rye, got germination in 3 days. Seed down was on the 8/23...I have mowed 2 times already, getting dense now.

Yes different grass types, and depending on your area could be very different soil types. But 6 times a day seems like a lot.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

I was thinking the same thing - the soil looks really wet. Use the flashlight when it's dark. You might see some grass barely poking through. If not, drop more seed but I would also drop 1 or 2 of your cycles. If your first one is early morning and you have a lot of dew, I would start later. Too much water can be as detrimental as not enough. Perhaps more so.


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## mobiledynamics (Aug 9, 2020)

What is the technique when dropping/reseeding more seeds in new germinated areas ? Never have done a 2X ?

Can't exactly - scratch- the surface and IME, just throwing seed down and not even putting S2S contact kinda is a mixed bag in germination in itself ?


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## bentz69 (Jun 12, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> Is that TTTF? If so and if it were me I would break up all the bare ground (garden weasel or sturdy rake), throw a ton of seed down and pray.
> 
> And what is really odd is for my complete RENO I used straw (no irrigation) and grass came in everywhere but my overseed + peat moss w/irrigation has been hit or miss.


Hard to tell from the pictures but the taller grass is not the new seed. If you can zoom in youll be able to the small patches of new tttf.



g-man said:


> The pictures look too moist/wet. It could cause some rot if it is staying too wet. You might need a flashlight picture in the am to see the grass better.


Last night and into today we received at least 1.5 - 2" of rain. Ill take some pics tonight



CDarb said:


> I'm on Long Island as well...
> 
> 6 times daily seems like a lot of water. I live mid island and I watered 8am, 11am, 2am, 5;30am for 5 minutes a zone. I put down straight Rye, got germination in 3 days. Seed down was on the 8/23...I have mowed 2 times already, getting dense now.
> 
> Yes different grass types, and depending on your area could be very different soil types. But 6 times a day seems like a lot.


My watering times were 5am, 9am, 12pm, 3pm, 7pm, midnight. Early morning and into the afternoon was 9 minutes per zone (3 min water followed by a soak for 15 minutes, 3 times to complete 9min per zone). Evening and night was only 6 minutes a zone. This way prevented any puddles/run off and the ground was always moist. I wouldn't call it "wet". Right before a morning or afternoon cycle was scheduled to start, the ground definitely dried up in the 3 hour window.



Harts said:


> I was thinking the same thing - the soil looks really wet. Use the flashlight when it's dark. You might see some grass barely poking through. If not, drop more seed but I would also drop 1 or 2 of your cycles. If your first one is early morning and you have a lot of dew, I would start later. Too much water can be as detrimental as not enough. Perhaps more so.


We did receive major rain last night and into today. Prior to this rain storm, there has been only one other day that rained.

I already removed the midnight cycle and backed down the other 5 cycles to only 6 minutes



mobiledynamics said:


> What is the technique when dropping/reseeding more seeds in new germinated areas ? Never have done a 2X ?
> 
> Can't exactly - scratch- the surface and IME, just throwing seed down and not even putting S2S contact kinda is a mixed bag in germination in itself ?


Good question.....


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

that was definitely a lot of water. I was only watering my KBG seed 4 times a day during 95F weather with sun and high winds and even that was a bit too much water. 3x/day worked better.


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## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

badtlc said:


> Keeping things wet will slow down the germination. Are these slower spots wetter than others?


do you mean tooooo wet? because keeping things damp will speed up germination.


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## bentz69 (Jun 12, 2018)

badtlc said:


> that was definitely a lot of water. I was only watering my KBG seed 4 times a day during 95F weather with sun and high winds and even that was a bit too much water. 3x/day worked better.


Dialing back the water is the easy part. Just hoping that is the answer. I can certainly buy another 25lb bag of seed and likely get it spread in the next 2 weeks.


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## ricwilli (Feb 18, 2019)

The ground looks to wet in some of those pics. I also seeded with GCI seeds. I threw down 9lbs/ksqft. The issue that I am having now is that my clay soil is to compact.


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## bentz69 (Jun 12, 2018)

ricwilli said:


> The ground looks to wet in some of those pics. I also seeded with GCI seeds. I threw down 9lbs/ksqft. The issue that I am having now is that my clay soil is to compact.


How long ago did you spread the seed? Any pictures for comparisons sake


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## ricwilli (Feb 18, 2019)

I started seeing seedling around 4-5 days, though I declared day of germination on the 6th day. You can click on my reno link in my bottom signature.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

ricwilli said:


> The ground looks to wet in some of those pics. I also seeded with GCI seeds. I threw down 9lbs/ksqft. The issue that I am having now is that my clay soil is to compact.


I would question if your soil is too compact. Grass can grow in less than ideal places - between patio stones and sidewalk cracks to name a few.

What seems to be the issue you are having?


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

Here's my GCI TTTF seeding at 10 days.


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## ricwilli (Feb 18, 2019)

Harts said:


> ricwilli said:
> 
> 
> > The ground looks to wet in some of those pics. I also seeded with GCI seeds. I threw down 9lbs/ksqft. The issue that I am having now is that my clay soil is to compact.
> ...


Screwdriver test was a fail. You see the squares on the lawn in the pic below, that is the Harley Rake prints. LOL. Even that had a hard time with the ground. I just posted a pic in my reno thread of the aerator plugs on my neighbors yard. They were barely an inch long.


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## bentz69 (Jun 12, 2018)

@g-man @Harts

Night pics show a little germination in small patches but it's not uniform at coverage all. There are still large areas with nothing. Should I throw more seed? If so, will trying to loosen the soil with a rake disturb the new seedlings already there? I feel like the window for seeding is closing and I would have to buy another bag of tttf from GCI or use the other bag I already have which is 45%prg/45%fine fescue/10%kbg


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

That's thin. I would throw more seeds.


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## bentz69 (Jun 12, 2018)

g-man said:


> That's thin. I would throw more seeds.


Sounds like the plan. Instead of trying to loosen th2 dirt by taking and probably ripping out the new grass, would throwing down a few yards of top soil be a better idea? Perhaps a 1/4" layer

Unfortunately GCI is sold out of 100% tttf. They only have a 85 tttf/15 kbg mix left


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

Buy a garden weasel and loosen up just the needed areas. Works great.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Long island here also. Cut back on your watering. We had tremendous rain storms last week did your seed get washed away? If you had the rain I did I would say it definitely did. If so losen up the soil again add more seed. Cut your watering back to 3 times a day 10 mins a pop. 10am,2 pm,5pm. Early mornings not necessary should be a dew on the seed. Late watering no .


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## bentz69 (Jun 12, 2018)

M32075 said:


> Long island here also. Cut back on your watering. We had tremendous rain storms last week did your seed get washed away? If you had the rain I did I would say it definitely did. If so losen up the soil again add more seed. Cut your watering back to 3 times a day 10 mins a pop. 10am,2 pm,5pm. Early mornings not necessary should be a dew on the seed. Late watering no .


The local weather station said that crazy rain storm we had last week or so gave 2.5" to my area. It's possible that some got washed away. I'm still seeing more germination from my original seeding two weeks ago. However, there are still plenty of spots that are bare so I will be throwing down more seed after I make a cut next weekend. Existing grass is around 4" and the new tttf that germinated early is approaching 3"


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## bentz69 (Jun 12, 2018)

bentz69 said:


> M32075 said:
> 
> 
> > Long island here also. Cut back on your watering. We had tremendous rain storms last week did your seed get washed away? If you had the rain I did I would say it definitely did. If so losen up the soil again add more seed. Cut your watering back to 3 times a day 10 mins a pop. 10am,2 pm,5pm. Early mornings not necessary should be a dew on the seed. Late watering no .
> ...


Some areas did fill in nicely


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Definitely some areas did fill in nice. Add some seed where you know it needs other areas will fill in and look much better as time passes. This is what a young overseed looks like be patient it will look really good in about a month. Next spring fantastic.


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## bentz69 (Jun 12, 2018)

Repeat in head...."its a marathon, not a sprint"

HOC 3"

Still have some thin spots but I pray the kbg that I spread on the second overseed attempt will fill in during the spring


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@bentz69 Looks great man!


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Wow that looks fantastic. Keep cutting it helps with tillering. If possible cut twice a week. Patience is paying off. Feed it also it's young grass needs food


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## Old Hickory (Aug 19, 2019)

bentz69 said:


> Repeat in head...."its a marathon, not a sprint"


Yep. If you prepared right and implemented right then you need to let those play out.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

bentz69 said:


> Repeat in head...."its a marathon, not a sprint"
> 
> HOC 3"
> 
> Still have some thin spots but I pray the kbg that I spread on the second overseed attempt will fill in during the spring


I would cut shorter due to all the grass laying over. Lower cut will also help that KBG make it.


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## bentz69 (Jun 12, 2018)

M32075 said:


> Wow that looks fantastic. Keep cutting it helps with tillering. If possible cut twice a week. Patience is paying off. Feed it also it's young grass needs food


Twice a week :shock: 

It has been 7 weeks since the first overseed with scotts starter fert and I have 2 types of fert on hand. I have urea but I really dont want to spray (kinda lazy) and I am not familiar with spreading granular urea. I also have scotts lawn food (32-0-4) which is super easy to calculate and spread.



badtlc said:


> I would cut shorter due to all the grass laying over. Lower cut will also help that KBG make it.


Good point.


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## jimmythegreek (Aug 7, 2020)

Cutting 2" on new grass is key amd cut as often as possible. It makes it thicken up amd grow better. And feed it the granular is fine as long as you take into account how much fast amd slow release is in there


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