# Zero Turn Experts - Blade Dilema



## STI_MECE (Aug 4, 2020)

I have a 2020 Scag Tiger Cat II that is eat blades quickly. From the dealer, I had the mulching baffles put in, discharge chute blocked and the mulching blades installed.

Per scag their mulching blades are hi-lift. The standard blades provide an optimum amount of lift, which is "the best combo for cutting in wet and dry conditions."

The first go around, the cut was pristine, and the deck blowout was horrid. Fast forward 10 hours on the mower, the cutting performance is dwindling, deck blow out, still horrid. I then learned frequent sharpening of blades is required for peak performance. Got an Oregon sharpening device, then later realized I cant sharpen my Scag mulching blades because they have a bend along the cutting side of the blade making sharpening a total pain if not impossible to sharpen the whole cutting side.

After* ten hours*, the mulching blades were shot, they had a rather sizeable divot in them. Forgive me, this was the best picture i had of the mulching blades. I have 3 on this mower, but only took a pic of one. 


I then put the standard blades on, with the mulching baffles still on. The first cut was great, and even better no more deck blowout. Fast forward 6 hours on the mower (two mow sessions), and the blades are already shot. 


Now I have a set of Scag low lift blades on the way. I am going with low lift due to the fact that maybe sand is eating my blades. I plan on sharpening these after every mow and keeping a sharp edge on them.

Would removing the mulching baffles on the deck help lower the abrasion?

Now I am in a conundrum where if I remove the mulching baffles, and blocked chute, I could probably get away with standard blades again.

I tell you what, I would not mind going back to my damn honda push mower on 5 acres! That thing never complained. Between the deck cleaning and sharpening on 3 blades of this ZTR after every mow, I have half a mind to trade this in, go buy a tractor with a nice brush hog.


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## Automate (Aug 14, 2020)

With the curved cutting edge can't you sharpen them by hand with an angle grinder?


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

When I purchased my Exmark 48" I had the mulch kit installed by the dealer. At the time my dealer told me a mulch kit will kill the performance of any mower. It wasn't long before I had the mulch kit off and was mowing with regular blades. I couldn't have been happier. It's a personal preference type of thing I guess.
I also no longer sharpen my own blades but back when I did I used an angle grinder with a flap disc. Short learning curve and it did a great job.


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## STI_MECE (Aug 4, 2020)

SWB said:


> When I purchased my Exmark 48" I had the mulch kit installed by the dealer. At the time my dealer told me a mulch kit will kill the performance of any mower. It wasn't long before I had the mulch kit off and was mowing with regular blades. I couldn't have been happier. It's a personal preference type of thing I guess.
> I also no longer sharpen my own blades but back when I did I used an angle grinder with a flap disc. Short learning curve and it did a great job.


What was the mower doing that made you remove the mulching baffles?


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

STI_MECE said:


> SWB said:
> 
> 
> > When I purchased my Exmark 48" I had the mulch kit installed by the dealer. At the time my dealer told me a mulch kit will kill the performance of any mower. It wasn't long before I had the mulch kit off and was mowing with regular blades. I couldn't have been happier. It's a personal preference type of thing I guess.
> ...


The deck would clog bad any time the grass was remotely wet (dew, etc.) Also, especially when I was feeding the lawn heavily, it would clump if I went more than a couple days between mowing. I just changed to the original blade & deck and never looked back.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

SWB said:


> STI_MECE said:
> 
> 
> > SWB said:
> ...


On significant acreage with no risk to the public from flying debris, I'd go side-discharge and mow often enough to keep clipping volume under control. Then again, if you're mowing that often, a mulch kit usually works just fine too, unless you're mowing in wet conditions.

Sandy soils are hell on mower decks and blades. That's been a problem for southern regions since rotary mowers were invented. Low lift blades and mulching configurations will help with the wear issues. Growing thicker turf that keeps the sand where it belongs helps a bunch too. Commercial cutters that have to cut everything from manicured lawns to dust-bowl weed fests go through blades like tissues.

As far as sharpening mulching blades with the wave profile, hand-sharpening with angle grinder or using something like the RBG grinder with the mulch blade attachment is the way to go. Note that the bevel angle is often different on the two different levels of the blade. Upper edge is often a shallower angle and finer edge.

http://www.rbggrinders.com/mulchplate.html

I had a 2181-P setup in a trailer (mobile rig) that did well.

EDIT: I also have a method with rotary blades where I just square the cutting edge to a 1/64" - 1/32" (<1mm) square face edge instead of going to a fine edge. Just lightly drag the blade across the grinding surface once or twice. Really helps in tougher grasses, I used to do it to a greater extent with bush-hog blades too as they frequently go over woody plants. Fine edges get bent/damaged easily compared to a square face. ALL rotary blades tear the grass to cut it, and a razor edge only out-performs a square edge for a little while before it's ready for re-sharpening.


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## STI_MECE (Aug 4, 2020)

Yes my lawn is sort of a mixed bag at the moment. I am not living there as the house is being remodeled and I have everything from semi decent areas o Bermuda, to weed infested only areas, and then patchy areas where weeds are growing and pure sand. I will try pulling the mulching baffles and going with side discharge and low lift blades. Hopefully i can still generate enough lift to cut the tall stemmy weeds.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

I sharpen by hand with a file as needed. The clumping under the deck is because even dry grass is wet on the inside. It's tough sometimes honestly.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Definitely don't need the Mulch kit. Side discharge and if you have a pool or landscape you are worried about shooting clippings into them buy a chute blocker you can drop when you are going by those areas or just make a couple passes blowing the grass away from beds.

Definitely shouldn't be going through blades that quickly. I'm not cutting Bermuda but I run side discharge and high lift blades on my Gravely.


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## STI_MECE (Aug 4, 2020)

Yes no pool or beds to worry about at the moment. I can buy a operator controlled discharge chute that I will consider later if things work out with it discharging to the side.

I will probably have to mulch in the winter time though....maybe. I have quite a few trees on my property which can cover my entire lawn if all the leaves fell. That was one of my main motives for getting the mulching kit. It worked like a charm in the winter.

I am hoping the blades will be able to mince up the grass enough so that the clippings aren't thrown on top of the grass willy nilly. I like the fresh cut grass look with no grass clippings left behind. From what I read, if lo-lift and side discharge leaves the clippings behind, I should start trying different blades with more lift ie. standard or mulching blades.The lift in the blade will help spread the clippings better and also, cut them up just as tad more.

I am dying to start living there so i can start pushing growth in the grass...our contractor is on month 7 of the remodel, 2.5 more months to go.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

If you mow often enough you won't even see the clippings after side discharging. If you get behind, you could just double cut it and that would take care of your clipping issues.

Leaf wise again you could just double cut it. That's what I usually do. Also at times I'll use my push mower and bag where the leaves are the heaviest.

Scag has arguably the best deck in business so you should be able to get it dialed in eventually.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

ksturfguy said:


> If you mow often enough you won't even see the clippings after side discharging. If you get behind, you could just double cut it and that would take care of your clipping issues.
> 
> Leaf wise again you could just double cut it. That's what I usually do. Also at times I'll use my push mower and bag where the leaves are the heaviest.
> 
> Scag has arguably the best deck in business so you should be able to get it dialed in eventually.


It's funny, in the Northeast, we loved the Exmark Tricycler decks and the UltraCut decks (x03 and x04 series, circa 1998-2005ish) and considered them the best, but in certain areas, they wore out too quickly due to the massive (for the time) airflow and blade speed. The warm-season grasses in those areas just didn't demand that kind of lift so there was little advantage over other designs. Their response was the Triton (x05 series) decks which had a bomb-proof spindle design but proved to be too difficult to get them dialed in with all of the adjustable baffling and possible blade options. Not that you couldn't get it dialed in, just that most didn't want to be bothered. They wanted 60" decks, 30+ HP, and expected it to cut perfectly, anywhere, anytime, all conditions. It started eroding sales and the answer was a return to the x04 UltraCut design but with the improved spindles and deck plate reinforcements.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

MasterMech said:


> ksturfguy said:
> 
> 
> > If you mow often enough you won't even see the clippings after side discharging. If you get behind, you could just double cut it and that would take care of your clipping issues.
> ...


Yeah I'm guessing best deck probably differs region to region. Just from the research I've done and checking out sites like lawnsite, it seemed the 2 that kept getting mentioned the most were the SCAG velocity deck and the John Deere 7 iron.

Now in dry cutting conditions I've heard great things about exmark as well. I have a Gravely and I think it cuts good so my guess is all major commercial brands will leave a great cut but some do perform a little better than others in wet tall grass.


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## AllisonN (Jul 4, 2020)

I have 2 7 iron decks. One on a 652r and z930m. Both have mulch on demand. The baffles close and chute is blocked. I may sharpen around 30 hours but generally will get 50-60 out of a set. Not much sand I deal with, but around the 30 hr mark the blade will cut in some the same as yours, but it's not nearly as bad. I don't run the gator blades though.


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## STI_MECE (Aug 4, 2020)

Beyond good cutting decks I hope a indestructible blade is made at some point lol If only someone made a mowing blade sharpening service like the dollar shave club lol


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

STI_MECE said:


> Beyond good cutting decks I hope a indestructible blade is made at some point lol If only someone made a mowing blade sharpening service like the dollar shave club lol


The Deere 7-Iron blades were about as close as it came to indestructible. Like bush-hog blades when compared to other commercial blades. Scag blades are known for high-hardness as well. That is, as long as you don't ruin them on a grinder by over-heating them.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

ksturfguy said:


> Now in dry cutting conditions I've heard great things about exmark as well. I have a Gravely and I think it cuts good so my guess is all major commercial brands will leave a great cut but some do perform a little better than others in wet tall grass.


It was a simple formula for Exmark back then, well-built, competitively priced, slinging high-quality blades at relatively high speeds. They also were offering collection systems that were years ahead of competing solutions. I think fewer people were cutting in the rain back then too. The industry was a bit less competitive. But for high volume or wet conditions, I'll take a 7-Iron (especially later versions) any day.

Gravely, Grasshopper, etc were all pretty minor brands back then (circa 2000-2005). Ferris was in it's infancy,

Scag was (at the time) running/pricing on their prior reputation and not offering much other than durability issues. (52" belt-drive walks that ate transmissions 2x a season, floating deck walks that busted their front frames, ALL 48"+ fixed deck walks that would loosen up at the frame mounting holes and oblong the holes, we ended up welding a lot of frames together. Advantage decks that would bend from commercial ab-"use". Saw a LOT of Z's that had the fronts of the decks curled under like a potato chip. Glad to see a lot of these issues turned around these days.

Deere was just getting serious about commercial mowing equipment and had just introduced the 7-Iron on riding equipment. 7x7 series. Great mowers, but high price due to the lack of dealer volume discounts that were standard with other OEM's and didn't significantly out-perform competing units (with 1 exception, wet conditions). Also had a few minor durability issues with the early 1st gen units. Loved selling these units to homeowners/farmers/estates though.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

@MasterMech do you service these different machines or do you own a lawn care business? You seem to be pretty knowledgeable


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

ksturfguy said:


> @MasterMech do you service these different machines or do you own a lawn care business? You seem to be pretty knowledgeable


I've been out of the game (pretty much anyways) for 10+ years now. I was a pro-wrench for a great dealer that carried Deere, Stihl, Exmark, Husqvarna, Toro and a few others.


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## STI_MECE (Aug 4, 2020)

@MasterMech

Unrelated question kind of haha. Do you know what his cap is for? Lol it seems as if it should be removed during operation.

It seems with the cap removed the cooling fan would be able to draw air through this tube and allow for better airflow to keep the engine cool. This is a Kawasaki FT730V 26 hp


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## STI_MECE (Aug 4, 2020)

Wow I see the function now. There is a slit on the cap and the fan blows air out it doesn't draw it through.

Epic fail. So it stays lol


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

STI_MECE said:


> @MasterMech
> 
> Unrelated question kind of haha. Do you know what his cap is for? Lol it seems as if it should be removed during operation.
> 
> It seems with the cap removed the cooling fan would be able to draw air through this tube and allow for better airflow to keep the engine cool. This is a Kawasaki FT730V 26 hp


You'll actually see that duckbill type cap (it's actually called a valve or dust ejector) on many engine air cleaners. Yours looks a little different? (Can't see from the top down) but dust is usually spun out in the air cleaner housing and accumulates behind the ejector. When the engine is shut down, the engine will rock back against compression creating a brief positive pulse and, poof, spits out the dust.

Always mount the air cleaner covers with this cap facing down. Yours looks like it's built in Facing down so it cannot be mounted incorrectly and the air cleaner receives pre-cleaned air from the engine cooling fan so it would constantly eject dust and debris when the engine is running.


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## STI_MECE (Aug 4, 2020)

That was a glorious post. Thanks for the insight

Mower is ready. Time to see how this goes. Mulching baffles are off as well. Back to side discharge


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## STI_MECE (Aug 4, 2020)

It was clumping pretty bad although it was wet because of rain and I had to cut. It can definitely chomp through the grass easier because there is less drag.


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## AllisonN (Jul 4, 2020)

STI_MECE said:


> It was clumping pretty bad although it was wet because of rain and I had to cut. It can definitely chomp through the grass easier because there is less drag.


I guess since I run Deere and have mulch on demand if it is wet or thick because it's out of control I'll mulch the first pass then open the deck to dispense the finer clippings. Can't stand leaving clippings on any customers yards.


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## STI_MECE (Aug 4, 2020)

I guess since I run Deere and have mulch on demand if it is wet or thick because it's out of control I'll mulch the first pass then open the deck to dispense the finer clippings. Can't stand leaving clippings on any customers yards.
[/quote]

Scag makes a operator controlled discharge chute. I'll probably place an order on that. I hate the clippings as well. Drives me nuts


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

How much are you cutting off to leave that much clippings? Must be getting fairly tall.


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## AllisonN (Jul 4, 2020)

STI_MECE said:


> I guess since I run Deere and have mulch on demand if it is wet or thick because it's out of control I'll mulch the first pass then open the deck to dispense the finer clippings. Can't stand leaving clippings on any customers yards.


Scag makes a operator controlled discharge chute. I'll probably place an order on that. I hate the clippings as well. Drives me nuts
[/quote]

I would say that it would be worth it if it was me.


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## STI_MECE (Aug 4, 2020)

ksturfguy said:


> How much are you cutting off to leave that much clippings? Must be getting fairly tall.


It was at least 4.5 inches. The Bermuda at least. The problem is the weeds grow alot taller than the Bermuda so I got stringy weeds. Lol I will keep this lawn better maintained once I finally live here. It's been an SOB trying to upkeep the lawn while it's getting remodeled


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## 95mmrenegade (Jul 31, 2017)

STI_MECE said:


> I have a 2020 Scag Tiger Cat II that is eat blades quickly. From the dealer, I had the mulching baffles put in, discharge chute blocked and the mulching blades installed.
> 
> Per scag their mulching blades are hi-lift. The standard blades provide an optimum amount of lift, which is "the best combo for cutting in wet and dry conditions."
> 
> ...


What kind of fuel consumption are you seeing? Mine seems extremely poor compared to past mowers.


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## STI_MECE (Aug 4, 2020)

What kind of fuel consumption are you seeing? Mine seems extremely poor compared to past mowers.
[/quote]

I think i use about 5-6ish gallons over a 3.5 hour period.


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## STI_MECE (Aug 4, 2020)

Wanted to come in here and give my feedback on the changes I have made.

The low lift blades have been performing great if I stick to the sharpening every 6 hours. I have 5 cuts in total which is about 30 hours worth of cutting.

The Oregon blade sharpener I got is helping. Although it's not 100% perfect but it's more so related to the low lift blades from scagg. It's not completely flat so I do have to maneuver the blade alittle bit to make sure I can get a sharp edge all the way down the blade.

I think I got the blade sharpening pretty close to 30 degrees now. I found used two speed squares on the blade to guesstimate what the angle Is lol.

OH and my flipping operator controlled discharge chute finally arrived this week. I'll be putting it on this weekend. Just in time for fall.

The main issue with me chewing through blades was not maintaining them and then the blade eventually develops that divot in the pics above. With me sharpening regularly, I have kept them looking much nicer.

Once I start maintaining my grass regularly I believe everything will be even easier to maintain. House still isn't ready. Not even close. Still cutting the grass on weekends when I can.


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