# My TTTF Renovation with special guest Flo



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

My apologies right off the bat as these first couple posts will be very wordy and not many pictures to share. I have a lot of "back story" to tell to bring you up to speed and I'm also just now getting around to start this lawn journal as I'm about to throw down some seed. Hopefully future posts will have more eye candy for content.

My wife and I (then gf) bought our house in June 2015. What you see below is basically what we had when we moved in in August. Lots of green, but it was all clover, wild violet, dichondra, etc. All things you'd expect to find in such a shady front yard. It's hard to tell from the other pictures as the yard obviously wasn't the main focus (but it's all I've got to show) but half of the front yard was essentially covered in overgrown shrubbery and trees. There was one patch by the driveway that had what I think is zoysia (it receives the most sun) but other than that. It was weeds.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kY13DFUf6kDG7nv_1Bp-kjaX1tF1kmJAKA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RS4q2SykJTu-5WOafibTNnscgfA2_gLDQw/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Qkl0rhATs1IKXdjHpAnoYkoIsU0q5j33Tw/view?usp=sharing

The first year we lived in the house I decided there were too many weeds to try to grow grass in the yard so I bought some OTC WeedBGon and started spraying figuring I would kill weeds that fall and winter and start planting grass seed the following spring. Back then, I knew very little about lawn care other than how to mow, edge, and blow. I also learned the hard way that trees look nice and provide shade in the spring/summer but cheese and rice do they drop a ton of leaves in the fall (still trying to figure out how to manage that one). I had some mild success killing weeds, eventually eradicating most of the clover and dichondra, but the wild violet still persists to this day. We also tackled clearing out the front portion of our yard that was overgrown. Again, I don't have many pictures to share as I'm more of a "let's just do it" person than someone who likes to document things. Here is just one picture showing the progress after removing some overgrown bushes/shrubs around our well pump and a few trees. Obviously, I hadn't gotten rid of all the clover and dichondra at this point. We also trimmed back the azaleas, which had gotten quite large for my liking.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q84cwuC1Cz1yBPMeYi4l9gnSDfyMI9Xwuw/view?usp=sharing

In 2017, we were getting married and my wife wanted to be able to show off the house (and the yard) so it was time to get serious about growing some grass. I doubled up on my WeedBGon applications trying to clear as many weeds out as possible. After prepping the yard, I put down way too little of some Scott's Southern Gold Mix and possibly even some of their Dense Shade mix. I had good results, however. The grass came in quickly and continued to grow through spring, even though it was a bit thin. At this time, I was only using Scott's starter fert and their seasonal weed & feed to help kill new weeds. Unfortunately, I have no pictures of this time period.

At this point, my novice lawn care knowledge level began to show itself. I neglected the lawn most of that summer and fall. I relied on mother nature to do the watering and stopped fertilizing for the most part except for maybe a fall weed & feed application. I had a lot of a die off this winter, mostly due to neglect. As previously mentioned, I still have a LOT of trees that put down a LOT of leaves in the fall. It's hard to keep up with them and there were times last year when I couldn't (or didn't) get around to gathering them up before a rain storm so that ended up matting down and smothering the grass, which ultimately killed it.

This spring, the grass came out quite thin so I got ready to put down some more Scott's Southern Gold Mix. I overseeded (again probably too little), applied starter fert and watered. I didn't touch the grass for 4-5 weeks. It had gotten _really_ overgrown as you can imagine but I was happy to see grass coming through. I mowed the grass for the first time at my usual level (around 2") and applied a spring weed & feed as some new weeds had begun to pop up since my overseed. I noticed afterwards that I could see my mower wheel marks more easily than normal but didn't think much of it at the time. Almost immediately after this application (maybe a day or two) we got pounded with rain for a week straight. By the 3rd or 4th day I could tell my grass wasn't doing well. When the rain stopped, I could STILL see my wheel marks from the last time I mowed, and the grass was beginning to yellow/thin. About a month later, most all of my grass had died and I was left with a little bit of fescue. I still have no idea what happened. Maybe I applied too much starter fert, maybe it was the rain, maybe it was disease? By the end of this summer the yard had become a you pick 'em book of weeds (clover, crabgrass, nimblewill, sedge, etc.), with a little patch of zoysia still hanging on. This is where we pick up with my fall renovation.


----------



## Abru (Sep 24, 2018)

Your house looks amazing. I hope your recovery program will be successful. What are your plans for this fall? What type of grass seed will you choose, and are you going to change anything in the watering department? I'm jealous of your trees, but I see how it can influence the grass negatively. You could try putting down circular edging with mulch around the trees. I see that one of your trees has that already, but it might be worth expanding that. It'll even save you a bit of money since you would need less seed and fert . It'll tie the yard together, too. Good luch and keep us updated!


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

So around June/July I began entertaining the idea of reseeding my front yard and started searching for some online resources. I'm a member of several car forums so I figured there had to be something for lawn care but every time I searched something specific online I always got a Scotts/Pennington or other article type results. Never any forums. Until I found this site and another that seems more directed to lawn professionals (definitely not me). I also started watching some Youtube videos and noticed the same guys coming up no matter what I searched. Since then, I've become very familiar with channels such as the Lawn Care Nut (I even bought a "throw'er down" t-shirt for seed down day), the Grass Factor, Jason Creel and Lawn Care Life, and even How To With Doc to a lesser extent. Huge shout out to those guys for doing what they do along with the great folks here (Ware for the warm season quick links and G-man for the cool season quick links specifically) for all your knowledge and helpful posts. I have to say, this site has some of the highest volume of new threads every day from what appears to be lots of newbies but the answers are always courteous and helpful (not true of a lot of other communities I've been a part of) so hats off to all you guys and gals for that! Enough ranting back to the topic at hand...

Armed with this new knowledge, my plan for my front yard was as follows:
-Kill off what remained of the grass and weeds with Glyphosate
-Pull weeds/vines and cut down unnecessary trees/shrubs/foliage
-Bring in some top soil to fill in the holes, ruts, and low spots from pour drainage
-Aerate
-Seed, starter fert, and milo
-water
-water
-water

Here is what the grass, uh I mean yard, looked like after the summer. All the grass seed I had previously planted was all but gone. You'll also notice a large bare spot by the fence. Right after I got married, we decided to use some of our wedding money to have a very large, very DEAD maple tree taken down. This opened up the front of the yard to get a ton more light but there was a lot of wood chips from the stump grinding and the ground was very compacted and lumpy from the heavy equipment being run through the yard. I cleaned up the majority of the wood chips, but I think there are still quite a lot of small pieces. Hopefully they don't interfere with my grow too much. We also got a really bad storm this past summer that literally blew over a mature Crepe Myrtle so that had to be removed as well. This also allowed more light in but I would have preferred to keep that tree if possible.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vukHbE-c-KzHhF4iV8mlK-Z1Y1WMvsRPtA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fatLbW0CUpyco4uk2JDnJftz1OqylL8grQ/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vK6Xqgd3U-yVGP1hcHFMIb1lKcHN9nU4AQ/view?usp=sharing

These pictures were taken 8/27, two days after my first round of glyphosate. I didn't have enough mixed to do the whole yard nor did I have enough time so I made up two gallons and just went to town until I ran out. My second application was one week later on 8/31. I'm not sure how effective that one was as I had gotten my new sprayer parts in so I was using a different method than the first time. It also started to sprinkle right as I was finishing so I'm not sure it all got absorbed by the plants. Either way, I got enough of a kill that I was left with basically bare soil for my reno.

The next step was about increasing sunlight as much as possible for my front yard. We already had a huge tree removed (and then the crepe myrtle that fell) which opened up a ton of light for the front of the yard. However, the far end of my yard is so shaded that about the only thing that grows over there is moss. This will be a huge challenge. Unfortunately, I didn't take any before/after pictures of this process but you'll see the results later when I show the prepped yard. Essentially what I did was remove a bunch of undesirable trees as well as pull all the english ivy growing through the fence and into my yard. I also spent the better part of a day cleaning up the fence line near the road.


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

Let's back up for a second and talk timeline. I was originally planning for this whole renovation to take place in mid to late August or early September (I was very eager to actually have grass again and reading all the posts from you folks up north had me antsy) and I was prepared to do it, but the weather just wasn't cooperating. One of the first weeks in August we had air temps in the mid 80s which is cool for this area and this time of the year. I thought "great, fall has come early", but this cool weather had me fooled. We were then blasted with two straight weeks of temps in the mid to upper 90s. It was literally two of the hottest weeks all summer. Doing more research, the soil temps just weren't cool enough to allow for a good result had I decided to seed then anyway.

As September rolled around, I kept my eye on the extended forecast as well as the soil temp maps waiting for the perfect weekend to do my reno. After the first week in Sept., it seemed that the weekend of 9/15 would finally be the perfect time to get all this work done. I had everything planned and ready to go... then we found out Hurricane Florence was heading straight for us. Local weatherman were forecasting as much as 12" of rain at one point so everything got put on hold and I'd have to wait for a better weekend. We hunkered down and waited for the flooding, but luckily it never came. It rained off and on Saturday, but mostly was just windy. On Sunday, it rained basically all day. But it was a slow, steady rain rather than an all day down pour. In total, I think we only got 2-3" of rain. We were very fortunate not to get hit as hard as some of the coastal areas of North and South Carolina.

In the end, I think Hurricane Florence actually did me a favor as all that rain helped saturate the soil for me, which would make it easier to do my aeration. Looking at the extended forecast after Florence, it seems as though the temps have cooled off for good now. My new date was then the weekend of 9/22 (this past weekend). And that's when the _real_ work would begin.


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

Now for the "good stuff" you've all been waiting for. The activities from the this past weekend and where I currently stand.

Going in to this past weekend, I had everything lined up and ready to go (or so I thought). I had 4 bags of Milo (of which I had to search high and low to find locally), some starter fert, 8 yards of top soil being delivered Saturday morning, grass seed (more on that later), and I would rent an aerator for the day. It was going to be a busy weekend for sure.

My day began by taking a trailer full of yard debris to the landfill I had accumulated in the weeks prior when I started cutting down the undesirable trees. From there, I booked it straight to Home Depot to rent an aerator. Now, I didn't want to leave it to chance that I would get there and NOT be able to get an aerator so I called them Wednesday to reserve one for Saturday only to be told "we don't reserve equipment. It's first come first serve." That's a little frustrating, but no problem. Their website tells me how many they have available for rent and as of Friday night, there were 3 so I was in good shape. So I get to Home Depot no later than 8:30, stand in line for what felt like an hour because there's only 1 guy working and everybody in the world is there to rent equipment. I see at least two aerators sitting around so I know they're not out. I'm just anxious to get my equipment and get going. It's finally my turn. I walk up to the associate, I tell him I'm there to rent an aerator and... he tells me they're out. (-_-) Apparently the two I saw sitting around were broken and not in circulation. I desperately look online for other places to rent equipment, but as I feared, those places cater more to businesses and are only open M-F. So I'm not aerating my yard this year. Looks like I'll have to attack my soil compaction issue chemically rather than mechanically.

On that topic, what are everyone's opinions of the N-Ext products? Are they a good substitute for mechanical aeration? How quickly (or slowly) do they work? Can I use those products after a reno like this or have I missed the boat entirely on addressing my compaction issue this year?

Up next on the docket was top soil. I don't have any pictures to show, but take my word for it. My yard had lots of ruts, low spots, and holes to address. I wasn't aiming for perfect, but I definitely wanted an overall smoother yard than I had before. The area where we had the big maple tree removed was my main concern along with the area along the driveway. I needed to bring that area up several inches to be level with the concrete. I ordered 8 cubic yards of top soil for the job from the local landscape supply company. Why 8 yards? Because that's all their truck would carry and I wasn't paying for multiple delivery fees (yes I'm cheap and trying to do this reno on a budget). When it was all said and done, I really could have used about 10 yards but I made do with the 8.

I don't own any equipment for spreading/leveling dirt so I shoveled wheelbarrow after wheelbarrow full of dirt to all the necessary spots BY HAND, dumped it BY HAND, spread it out with a garden rake and transfer shovel BY HAND, and tamped it down with the shovel BY HAND (and sometimes by foot). My wife volunteered to help with this part and thank god she did because I'd probably STILL be out there spreading dirt if it weren't for her help. I *seriously* underestimated the amount of time and effort it would take to do this part. The next time I level my lawn, I'll be sure to invest in some equipment to speed up the job. But here are the fruits of that particular labor. The lawn definitely has fewer holes and I've brought up several of the low spots but I'm sure there will still be some areas that could use some additional work (maybe next year). Plus having some top soil for the seed to germinate and root down into rather than compacted clay can only be a good thing in my opinion.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_rqNvvPdUjnQUHv2TW2mTGtkEmt9xPK-eg/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eP23Uo_LOAJUxU8p8gtKyoXshtG2oz6xiw/view?usp=drivesdk

Seeing as how I underestimated the time it would take to spread the top soil, I basically spent all weekend doing this part. It actually wasn't until yesterday that I got to put my seed down. When it came to seed I did a lot of reading up on what types of tall fescues would do well in shady, hot & humid environments with good drought resistance (I don't have a sprinkler system and can't always get around to watering). There were so many cultivars and blends available I was almost paralyzed by the choices. I had decided to use a blend from SSS that was recommended for shady yards in the transition zone. But when that blend suddenly went missing from their site (presumably because they were sold out with no replenishment date) I had a mini panic attack. I called and emailed a couple of places asking for recommendations and ultimately settled on my second choice which was a blend from United Seeds. I wasn't sold on them at first because while they tell you which cultivars are in their blends, they don't tell you how much of each one you'll get. My yard is approximately 5500 sqft and I also planned to address my side yard as well which is about 600 sqft. I wanted to really "throw'er down" since I have a bare yard so I ordered 60lbs of seed with the plan to put it down at a rate of 10lbs/1000sqft. When it showed up at my door, here was the composition.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10gW7u6rs57wwpF6jPNOgRgBR0OvAo8i2UA/view?usp=sharing

Overall not a bad mix. The Titanium 2 will do well in the shaded parts of my yard (admittedly I wish the percentage of this had been higher), while all of them have good disease resistance. Spyder and Firecracker specifically do well in drought conditions so they should hold up well in the hot summer months around here.

I'm not sure if you'll be able to see much in the pics but here is my yard after putting down 50lbs of seed in my front yard. All those little white specs are seeds (duh). That calculates out to about 9lbs/1000sqft. Holy cow was that a lot of seed. It seemed like even more seed because my only spreader is a Scotts mini so I had to fill that sucker 5 or 6 times to the brim to spread it all on one of the top settings (either 10 or 12 out of 14 on the rotary dial). I decided to hold off for now on doing the side yard (more on that later).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BMCO-AozYQakdy_DbqrUJsq6Q5cvdpGOow/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y1W2Gm6704XfMa7wB0Gr9cqEmXr_9e9FQg/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c_GCnBL9W1XO2wd_0JUTVciDOnkpwGGr8Q/view?usp=sharing

I had less starter fert on hand than I originally thought so I will actually need to go by Lowe's this evening and pick some up and put it out. I did, however, put down an application of Milo at roughly 6.5lbs/1000sqft (one full bag). Originally I wanted to do 5lbs/1000sqft to get around .25lb N from the Milo. This would mean I need about 3/4 of a bag. I would also put down a little more than 3lbs/1000sqft (1.1 15lb bags) of Scotts starter fert which would give me roughly .75lb N for a total of 1lb N per 1000sqft but just the way my yard is sized and how the bags come from the store I decided to do a full bag of Milo and a full bag of Scotts starter fert. A full bag of Milo on my lawn equals out to 6.5lb/1000sqft (36/5.5k) application rate or .39lb N per 1000sqft. Scott's starter fertilizer is a 25-25-4 and comes in a 15lb bag rated to cover 5000sqft. This equals out to 2.73lb/1000sqft (15/5.5k) or .68lb N per 1000sqft. Total N per 1000sqft would then be 1.08lb so it works out pretty well all though the ratios of fast release vs slow release is a little different now.

That basically brings us to today, where I am in the water, water, water phase. I hope to have pictures next week showing germination.


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

The side of my yard is prepped for the fall reno as well. It received a thin layer of top soil, but mostly I was trying to fill a couple holes and bring up a rut from water draining off my house. The picture below illustrates my challenge with this part of my yard. The top soil was put down Saturday. On Sunday, I came out and raked all the leaves up. This picture was taken Monday after I got home from work, a mere 30 hours after last raking this section of the yard. I'm worried that the leaves falling will smother the seed and prevent any sunlight from reaching them, thus stunting my grow. The majority of the leaves appear to be coming from two small Maple trees. Does anyone see any harm in holding off with this part of my reno until these maples have dropped most of their leaves?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IRuWZY0suesa3igegMQj7V0UQ5cu4TVUuA/view?usp=drivesdk


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

Abru said:


> Your house looks amazing. I hope your recovery program will be successful. What are your plans for this fall? What type of grass seed will you choose, and are you going to change anything in the watering department? I'm jealous of your trees, but I see how it can influence the grass negatively. You could try putting down circular edging with mulch around the trees. I see that one of your trees has that already, but it might be worth expanding that. It'll even save you a bit of money since you would need less seed and fert . It'll tie the yard together, too. Good luch and keep us updated!


Thanks for the kind words Abru! I've added quite a bit of content since your post yesterday. Take a look!

I think I'm going to do pine straw around the trees but I want the grass to grow in first to sort of tell me where it needs to go. The pine straw should definitely make things easier in the mowing department as there are many roots visible around the trunks and I'm always afraid I'm going to run over one and tear up my mower.


----------



## Abru (Sep 24, 2018)

You seem very passionate about your project, which is nice to read. I too have watched a dozens and dozens of lawn care videos on YT and read up on all sorts of studies, which has been really helpful. I'm currently in a similar situation where I'm redoing my lawn. This is my first year as a homeowner, so everything I do to the lawn is a first. That can be a little scary, since some investments are costly, and you just hope for the best. Last weekend, I sprayed my lawn with Quinclorac because crabgrass has almost completely ruined my fescue. (I did not put down a pre-emergent since I knew nothing about lawn care last spring). The Quinclorac is working great, and I'm preparing to dethatch and reseed asap. I have a question for you about the timing of the seeding. I know that fescue has certain recommended temperatures for the time of seeding. Currently, the temperatures in my area are still well up in the 80's, while my fescue seed likes 60/75 degrees for germination. I could wait until we reach these temperatures, but by that time, it might be october/november while I like plenty of time to establish the lawn before winter. So the question I have for you is: Do you feel confident about germination rates while temp's are around 80 degrees? Or is it okay for seed to stay in the soil while it 'waits' for optimal temperatures? Thank you very much.


----------



## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

@Abru I seeded on Sept 1 and had temps in the low 90's for the first few days. Everything germinated very quickly. If it's sunny and hot, you'll just need to keep on top of watering in the middle of the day, since it'll be easier for things to dry out.


----------



## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

@quattljl Nice prep work! Can't wait to see germination shots!

RE: side yard
You'll want at least 6 weeks until frosts set in. Not sure when that is for you in SC. You may be able to get away with less time, but then you're risking winter kill. When will they be done shedding leaves?


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

@Abru I'm in the same boat as you with my back yard. I seeded with the Scott's fescue mix in the spring of 2017 (again wrong time of year). I had good results but didn't do any follow up weed killing and now my backyard is 60-70% crabgrass.

As for germination with fescue, I think the more important thing to consider is soil temps rather than air temps. For example, my weather here will be in the low to mid 80s through September most years but my soil temps are already down into the mid 70s.


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

@samjonester first frost could be as early as November 1st or as late as December 1st. It can vary quite a bit around here.

I'm not too sure when the maples finish dropping their leaves. I've never paid that close attention to it to be honest. Hopefully it's soon though as they've already changed colors. The oak trees are still completely green. In general though, I'll be picking up leaves from mid/late August straight through Thanksgiving.


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

Today is day 5 since seed down and I'm starting to see germination in a few spots. Unfortunately, I also saw this today when I walked outside.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lVQ6rdyX8Wa97ro5l9I2tLCOW04ok8Qk1w/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jNaHQSH3hw6FHoMy6kMQ-m_Zk-Lzz6kAxQ/view?usp=drivesdk

Anybody know what this is? Looks like a fungus of some kind. Is it anything to worry about? Is there anything I can do to prevent it from getting worse?


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Your pictures links are not visible.


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

Should be visible now. I didn't have sharing enabled.


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

Day 6 we have solid germination!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1614QKB3kjr4LCHpD_nkkqm2FZCnSmcMMEw/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14jEsSuCJPET-dDwpkd0lbGC2Cul9RvfW-g/view?usp=sharing

Question for the masses: I know the grass won't need mowed for at least another week but I'd like to get these leaves up so they don't shade out the new grass. Is it safe to run my push mower over the seedlings to pick up the leaves?


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

The other item on the docket for this weekend was to seed my side yard. I went ahead and raked up all the leaves that fell over there in the last week and put down seed and starter fert. And this is why I was reluctant to buy from United Seed.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rcuA-Rf7-2zAUXf89pREyZhk0iz5RvcU7Q/view?usp=drivesdk

I needed 60lbs for my reno and because of the way they sell seed, that means I bought one 50lb. bag and one 10lbs. bag. I went to open the 10lb bag and noticed the seed blend in it. Don't get me wrong, all of these are good TTTF cultivars. And maybe I'm just being picky here but I would have preferred to have more say as to which kind and how much of each cultivar I got in my blend.


----------



## Abru (Sep 24, 2018)

I'm glad you have lots of germination! Your fungus could be white patch or Pythium blight, but honestly I know very little about lawn diseases. I found an article on tall fecue diseases, and it lists a few fungi. It looked similar to what you have. Here's the article: http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1168/ANR-1168.pdf

How do you irrigate your new seedlings? Not that I think I can solve the fungus problem, but I would like to know if you have any tips or tricks for me. I hope to seed in the next few days an I am planning to use my impact sprinkler and move it around until I get 100% coverage (and repeat that process a few times a day). What system do you use yourself?


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

I think you may be right about it being Pythium. We had heavy rains Wednesday and Thursday and maybe even Friday, which I think may have caused it. Unfortunately, there was nothing I could do about it. Today was actually the first day I've watered the grass since Wednesday.

Since I don't have an irrigation system, I just drag a hose around with an oscillating sprinkler. I don't know how all these people have time to water their grass multiple times a day (assuming they don't have an irrigation system). They must all be retired with nothing else to do :lol:. I water once a day after I get home from work.

As far as tips and tricks, just make sure to keep everything moist. You don't need to drown the seed in water everyday. I only water for about 10 minutes per spot in my yard right now. That's mostly due to having clay and also because I'm working with bare soil. Also, keep an eye on the forecast. Don't water if it's supposed to rain and water for a little longer if you have a day or two with temperature spikes. Let mother nature do the work for you when possible.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

quattljl said:



> . I don't know how all these people have time to water their grass multiple times a day (assuming they don't have an irrigation system). They must all be retired with nothing else to do :lol:. I water once a day after I get home from work.


Most of us do work and travel for work. I think the average member age should be around 35-45. We just use a timer, wife or work from home during a reno.

My reno timer(old):


----------



## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

FWIW, Firecracker SLS also does well in partial shade. I think you're on the road to a great lawn.

I buy from United Seeds and the blends have been good cultivars with no weed seed and good germination. As a bonus, the LS varieties tiller aggressively.


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

@g-man That's a good idea. I might have to invest in one of those for next summer (and some more sprinklers). I think I'll survive the rest of this growing season with my current setup.

@Delmarva Keith thanks for the words of encouragement. Maybe it's a moot point since I'm using a blend anyway, but I just don't want a hodge podge of grass cultivars that don't blend well with one another or don't have good performance for my growing conditions (shade, humidity, drought). I may not have as much input with United Seed, but their cultivars are good like you said. Plus their prices are definitely better than SSS, which was my other choice for seed.


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

I didn't get to take any pictures yesterday after the official one week mark because I was fixing my leaf blower so I snapped a couple quick ones this morning (day 8). I have to say, it looks better in person lol.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1J4IhWoFq_zOazivcKstaifP1WuEWslv4eA/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M_GvVifzHymU2kJp9em8EBDIfSYIuoJNWg/view?usp=drivesdk


----------



## Abru (Sep 24, 2018)

How's the current situation? Is it hot and dry in SC, too?


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

It is hot, yes. Summer is just not ready to relinquish its grip yet.

I need to take some updated pictures and post them. Everything is coming in very nicely. I'm very much looking forward to being able to do my first mow early next week.

There are a few areas that are struggling due to washout from the heavy rain we got right after I seeded. These are also areas that I didn't get to level with top soil because I didn't have enough. I've thrown some extra seed down in these spots so we'll see how they do. The dry weather will actually help me get some traction here as I don't have to worry about heavy rains or too much rain washing the seed away.

I also think I need to go ahead put down some DiseaseEx. I'm still seeing some pythium in places and I don't want it to get out of hand or damage my new seedlings.


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

Quick post weekend update. No pics unfortunately. I promise to take some today after my 1st mow.

I ran out and put some DiseaseEx down at curative rate on Friday. I haven't been inspecting the lawn every morning and by the time I get home in the afternoon it tends to disappear so I had thought it was gone. Unfortunately, it has thinned the lawn some so I'm now wishing I had acted sooner. Ironically, it seems to be the worst in the one small part of my yard that gets the most sun. This application seems to have cleared up a lot of it, but I still noticed some this morning. I might buy another bag and put some more out today to try and knock this stuff out.


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

Day 14 update! My first mow was today! Dang that felt good. Lawn looks much better now that it's all a uniform height. HOC was somewhere between 2.5 and 2.75. Might go down near 2" in a week or two.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LPNz-U5r7IxNOIYcj5D-bHegTqFmXzrNAw/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ul9bWhDp3_aroW0jqvzwYFgLQ71rNgGkrQ/view?usp=drivesdk

I've got a small chickweed issue in the front part of the lawn. I didn't spray anything before I seeded. Might spot spray with Tenacity. Is it safe to use Tenacity at this point?

Here's a quick update on my side yard as well. This is 7 days post seed down. The seedlings are actually tall enough to mow as is but I'll give them another weeks worth of root growth before I give it a mow.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nKZoiwHRjfyVL6fC0Z1IY5O5f-Z5uBAOsw/view?usp=drivesdk


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

Day 24 and 18 days post germination. 2nd mow was this past Saturday. It's looking really good in some spots, not so good in others. The Pythium really did a number on several areas and the heavy rains haven't helped. When it rains here, it's not a slow, steady rain. We get hammered and it makes the grass lay over. This is probably contributing to some of the die off I've been seeing. I essentially overseeded/reseeded those areas on Tuesday right before we were supposed to get some rain, which I thought would be good. But once again, it came down hard and heavy. I even added in some Scott's Patchmaster to help hold the seed in place. We'll see how well that worked in 5-7 days.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14eZa24bfGiCexcFo8_RRG8cJ5ziU9UvPYQ/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fbhaiM7M1c4UENBbFO7CpadxDnJhKxjaSg/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UsdNN7eazCtE_4pekEIyhms0CkvtF7s2Gw/view?usp=drivesdk

Here are some close ups of the washout and fungus damage after I reseeded with Patchmaster on Tuesday.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1asdvZHhJZOka4_rYYKtOPa5VLVtODGK9tg/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19rdTaMGkj4rRqJMxTBfdmOOLlSLxE82ynw/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c2Zl2zyASUYE2O7VdtRmz8SC4TNgUwOIjQ/view?usp=drivesdk

Here's the side yard today. First mow on this was also on Saturday after 7 days since germination. I waited to seed this due to the trees dropping so many leaves early but I also missed out on a couple heavy rains which I think would have caused some issues otherwise. This area is coming in beautifully minus the spot up against the house.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iJFG8AF6FxTxhGeMtfWYIS3fSK5wKe2mzQ/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x6oIrfa0XFwHUlTTFwCGRNsa4p5k4xaNiQ/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GFGwc1SupBhzFZBavQG-A4PRDIHEXjUuGg/view?usp=drivesdk


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Looking really good! I wouldn't worry too much about the weeds. You can hand pull them if there aren't too many. Once it's been 4 weeks after germination, you can spray tenacity if you want. Otherwise, you can focus on weed control in the spring. Don't forget to put down prodiamine this fall, usually 60 days post germination. It'll help stop more weeds...


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

I'll probably spot spray in some of the areas where the weeds are heaviest. Other than that, I'll leave it until spring since I reseeded several thin spots. Soil temps have plummeted in the last 2 weeks and I need all the warm weather I can get to help these seedings germinate and develop.

I bit the bullet and ordered some RGS and Air-8 since I couldn't get my hands on an aerator when I needed it. There were enough people that had good experience with it that I decided to give it a shot and see how it does. Anything I can do to help my seedlings and roots establish in this compacted clay soil will be a plus. I put an application down at the high rate yesterday.

Also I think I'm going to do one more application of DiseaseEx tomorrow. I'm still seeing some yellowing and die off of grass if it gets matted down or bunched together.


----------



## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

quattljl said:


> I'm still seeing some yellowing and die off of grass if it gets matted down or bunched together.


Maybe also keep an eye on the water. I've killed more than my share of seedlings with too much (soil around here can have low infiltration and if you're not on site every day to look after it, all hell can break loose with just a little too much on the timer each day).

Symptoms are what you describe - yellows and dies. Established grass can survive waterlogged in cool weather for a month at a time. Seedlings definitely won't make it more than a couple days.


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

Delmarva Keith said:


> Maybe also keep an eye on the water. I've killed more than my share of seedlings with too much (soil around here can have low infiltration and if you're not on site every day to look after it, all hell can break loose with just a little too much on the timer each day).
> 
> Symptoms are what you describe - yellows and dies. Established grass can survive waterlogged in cool weather for a month at a time. Seedlings definitely won't make it more than a couple days.


I'll be careful then. I've cut way back on my watering to once, maybe twice a week and I've gotten very little rain help. What makes it difficult is that there are parts of the yard that I'm seeing the yellowing but 2 feet over the clay soil is dry and cracked, which obviously makes it difficult for seedlings to sprout.


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

Mowed again yesterday (sorry no pics this time). I also put down a bag of DiseaseEx across my approx. 6k sqft yard, so I went a little lighter than the preventative rate. I just wanted to get a little something down since I reseeded some bare spots and need to keep the soil moist. Speaking of bare spots, my seedlings have come up and are about 3/4" or 1" tall now so it looks like my reseed and PatchMaster plan was a success.

I also put down a full dose of Milorganite in preparation for Halloween (and because it was due). My yard is completely fenced in and there are strips of unmanaged "natural areas" on either side of me in the neighbor's yards so I have no direct domination lines. But believe me, I am dominating with a uniform, green lawn in late October. I might not have the best landscaped yard (yet!) but it's definitely the best looking lawn. Now I just need to get rid of all the overgrown bushes in front of my yard by the road so everyone else can see it!


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

Another mow in the books today. Looking really good since my last app of Milorganite last Monday. I also spot sprayed Tenacity on all the areas where I had some weeds popping up. I'll be anxious to post some pics of the white splotches in the yard.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D5VPnftvyZQ0vbqcTgzhXah-kz_Gedid5g/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1APHC2Tn8f9g5VFzTHUs71C-dLni8CITDmw/view?usp=drivesdk


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

So I just realized I never updated this thread or followed up after winter. (pics at the bottom)

Everything was basically status quo from December through early March. As the lawn started to really wake up, I noticed there was a LOT of poa coming in. Some spots were worse than others but I will for sure need to get down my prodiamine this fall.

My plan coming into spring was to skip the pre-emergent in favor of a spring over seed. There were several areas that were really thin going into winter and it left parts of the lawn a little muddy. Instead of pre-emergent, I would do a blanket app of Tenacity to knock back some problem weeds as well as trying to stunt the poa. Looking back 2 months later, I don't think the overseed was actually needed except in one small spot because the lawn has thickened up so much on it's own.

On March 16th, I put down a blanket app of Tenacity, some Scott's starter fert at 3lb/k, an app of RGS to help the new seedlings, and I spread the rest of the leftover grass seed from my reno on the thin areas (about 10lbs). Ultimately, this overseed failed. Our son was born March 26th (12 days early) so my lawn was completely neglected with no mowing or watering (and no rain help) for nearly 2 weeks. It killed me knowing I had wasted all that seed and having overgrown grass but some things are more important.

As we head into late spring/early summer, things are looking good so far. I did a soil test through Soil Savvy which came back better than expected, especially if you compare it to the soil test from my back yard (see lawn journal link in signature). The poa is already starting to die back a little and I'm mostly weed free outside of that. I just put down one last app of fertilizer on Monday or Tuesday (my days are running together now). This time I put down some Milo at about 8lbs/k to get 1/2lb N. I likely won't fertilize again until fall as soil temps are already rising over 70. I may play with some potash and/or iron supplements though. The color looks decent in the pictures, but not as deep green as I'd like in person. Perhaps that's just the way it is this time of year though.

Now for the good stuff, the pictures! I took these this morning after my midweek mow yesterday.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1StVMG_efKujq8w8MCOar_drQxFPlwaG0Aw/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18BSj3bepQ9uMewNMG23NIKR2wVS7zG74FA/view?usp=drivesdk
The dead spots by the sidewalk are from an overspray of Round Up trying to kill crack weeds. I thought I was being very careful when spraying but obviously I wasn't careful enough.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OV3wbt9EjaaNXyBaFY_EwDjsGWE715_qog/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FDopOX3HAkYgaBAmAcUHYSbHg6FmxlVPhQ/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VJWAouPz5veQ3cXWnGedjco4yHNSgz7cog/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15Vb1UK1RpMfL5ZMOyTMhjjgUlqrnaiQEjQ/view?usp=drivesdk


----------



## Abru (Sep 24, 2018)

Wow your work really paid off. How has it held up during the heat of summer? Did you water it much? Congratulations on getting a son!


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

Abru said:


> Wow your work really paid off. How has it held up during the heat of summer? Did you water it much? Congratulations on getting a son!


Ugghhh! It's been a disaster! It's basically been 90+ and humid as hell since Memorial Day weekend. There's been a couple exceptions but not many. Rain has been few and far between. When we have gotten some, it's always a gully-washer type downpour that occurs late evening and overnight; prime fungus growing/spreading conditions! I've lost basically everything to either fungus or drought/heat despite watering 3 days a week and putting down 3 fungicide apps. I'll actually be starting a "re-renovation" thread in a couple weeks so be sure to keep an eye out for that one.

I appreciate the congrats on our son. It's been a fun adventure so far.


----------

