# Newbie with soil test back.



## Gr8tdanedad (May 31, 2020)

Hello all...
Looking for any and all guidance to help address my soil in hopes of doing some bare patch/small Reno this upcoming fall. Apparently Indianapolis area is notorious for alkaline soil and this only confirms my suspicion. I just recently started perusing the forum and am thankful for any guidance.. my specs: 15,000 sq ft, 3 year old home, standard cool season sod kbg/prg/fescue mix (obviously on top of mediocre soil).. I've done minimal maintenance over the past two seasons and also have severe areas of compaction (thank you Great Dane).. I definitely have tempered expectations, but I would like to address as much as realistically possible..

I started taking over in March, put down milo at bag rates, speedzone initially for weeds (missed ideal Prem time line, but put prodiamine down late May), Jonathon green love my soil over compacted area and tried to incorporate some compost over these areas.. Just got my soil results back after getting adequate probe samples..

Thanks in advance.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

For the next soil test, you can cut the middle man and maybe save some $$. Hamilton County is just sending the soil samples to A & L great lakes. You can send them directly.

This is a typical Indy soil and one after a new house construction. Barely any organic matter in the soil. It will take years to get it in a good spot. Try to always mulch mow and mulch all the fall leaves.

pH is high. Mine is the same. We live near a lot of limestone. We also have hard water. The high pH will make iron not as available. Trying to lower it is almost impossible and costly. It is easier to learn how to deal with it.

Phosphorous (P) is very low and so is potassium (K)

The easy approach, use balance fertilizer. The main negative right now is that it delivers nitrogen in the summer, when it might not be ideal.

The other approach is using individual products for P and K. A fertilizer called "starter" is normally high in phosphorous and not so much in nitrogen. For K, you can get SOP at Advance Turf Solutions (116st and 37).

Remaining challenge is iron. You can use milo (it gets expensive) or another chelated source (scott green max, XGRN), but watch your nitrogen. The other option is using a spray iron (FAS), but it gets more complex.


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## Ri22o (May 6, 2020)

Following this for some additional advice for my lawn since it seems to be rather similar to yours and I am also in Westfield (just North of the Kroger on 32). If I find anything that makes my lawn turn around, I will definitely let you know.

Also, my wife is on the hunt for a Great Dane right now, so any advice on that would maybe score me more points for working on the lawn...


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## Gr8tdanedad (May 31, 2020)

Ri22o,
We are just south of there on Carey Rd, in Oak Manor... Yeah, please let me know if you find any good local supplies, ideas.. g-man seems to be spot on, short of getting my PhD in turf science I'm gonna try and follow his steps. I may also try a few small areas FAS..

Definitely recommend getting a Great Dane.. here's the link to our dog's breeder.. 
https://www.kelleysbluegrassdanes.com/

Shaun


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## Ri22o (May 6, 2020)

Gr8tdanedad said:


> Ri22o,
> We are just south of there on Carey Rd, in Oak Manor... Yeah, please let me know if you find any good local supplies, ideas.. g-man seems to be spot on, short of getting my PhD in turf science I'm gonna try and follow his steps. I may also try a few small areas FAS..
> 
> Definitely recommend getting a Great Dane.. here's the link to our dog's breeder..
> ...


Oh, you're not too far away then. Maybe we can get together some time and talk grass while my wife bothers your dog.

There is a Site One not far from us on Hague that I have bought from before. They have been helpful with questions and don't treat you like you're an idiot.

I have started using N-Ext liquid products, if you have any questions about that. Other than that, I am learning too. I know more than my neighbors, but still a lot to learn. We built in 2016 and have crappy, builder grade dirt. My soil test does not look too awfully different from yours. My plan is to throw down lots of 13-13-13, Menards Organic, and some starter fert to bring up my P and K.


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## Gr8tdanedad (May 31, 2020)

Ri22o

That sounds awesome to me... I just got the N-ext products as well.. sprayed them last night... I was looking at starting some PGR Tnex once I correct all the soil deficiencies..
my wife thinks I'm crazy... Let's for sure get together sometime for sure! PM me your contact info.


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## Ri22o (May 6, 2020)

Gr8tdanedad said:


> Ri22o
> 
> That sounds awesome to me... I just got the N-ext products as well.. sprayed them last night... I was looking at starting some PGR Tnex once I correct all the soil deficiencies..
> my wife thinks I'm crazy... Let's for sure get together sometime for sure! PM me your contact info.


Any updates? Mine seems to be doing a little better, but it's still too early to tell.

I sent a message but not sure if it actually sent or not though since it is in the Outbox and not the Sent folder.


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## icepickjazz (Apr 8, 2018)

Gr8tdanedad said:


> Ri22o,
> We are just south of there on Carey Rd, in Oak Manor... Yeah, please let me know if you find any good local supplies, ideas.. g-man seems to be spot on, short of getting my PhD in turf science I'm gonna try and follow his steps. I may also try a few small areas FAS..
> 
> Definitely recommend getting a Great Dane.. here's the link to our dog's breeder..
> ...


@Ri22o @Gr8tdanedad I'm right around the corner from Shaun in Brookside and could almost drive a golf ball from my front porch to his house. Slight exaggeration, i can probably see his roof my house. Happy to chat with you as well. I've seen photos of Ri220 yard and the N-ext products seem to be doing well for him. I believe g-man is using those products as well. Will be watching your progressions' with those products.

A few years ago I gave up and threw in the towel s and did full renovation in the back and followed up later with a front renovation with 100% ***. Let me know if you ever get to that point. Life's priorities have taken me away from the lawn the past several years, but getting it back in shape this year. For this season I have gone route per the soil guide and applied separate AMS, SOP, and MAP to address my high PH, Low P and K issues.

For this season I have gone route per the soil guide and applied separate AMS, SOP, and MAP to address my high PH, Low P and K issues.


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## Gr8tdanedad (May 31, 2020)

Hey @icepickjazz . Lawn looks awesome!!! You're definitely right by us and probably could drive a golf ball over here. Our backyard is easy to spot on Carey road-big Great Dane running wild with urine spots everywhere. Lol

I'm starting to seriously consider a full scale Reno. I need to get an irrigation system this season and it would be awesome if I could hire out some of the manual labor, to aerate, drop topsoil screened compost, etc. prior to throwing down seed. Did you happen to contract out any parts of your Reno?!

As of now, just trying to throw down SOP, MOP (picking up tomorrow) as well as the N-EXT products.. I would love to find some 0-60-0 to help out as well..

Thanks for any and all input.


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## icepickjazz (Apr 8, 2018)

@Gr8tdanedad When I did the lawn reno, I did it all all the manual labor. Will send you a PM with some suggestions for companies to hire out some of the work. While not the best practice, I didn't put down topsoil or compost. I just killed the grass, scalped as low as possible, aerated, seeded, fertilized, and watered. That was it. I did that for both the backyard reno and the front yard reno which were a few years apart. When I renovated my lawn I followed the steps outlined here: https://www.agry.purdue.edu/turfnew/tips/2007/07_16lawnimprovement.htm When it came time for seeding I rented a Lawn Solutions Turf Revitalizer.

When i started the backyard reno my wife didn't understand and the neighbors thought I had gone mad. I killed all the grass and then took the lawn mower and scalped it down as low as possible. They took some pics of the crazy guy cutting dead grass.

All kidding aside, the results of the reno far exceeded my expectations. The neighbor's have sent me links in the past showing the google aerial photos and how green the grass is even from space. Although the most recent aerial is not nearly as good as the prior photo. Best compliment, a couple of years ago a halloween, one of the trick or treaters shouted out "Dad, this grass feels like carpet!" My wife thought I was crazy until she walked barefoot in the grass, and then she too understood.

As a side note, I just picked up one of the Chapin 97902 Sprayers and finished the mods, and just used it for the first time the other day. Think i'm going to really like it.

Happy to assist where I can.


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## Ri22o (May 6, 2020)

icepickjazz said:


> @Gr8tdanedad When I did the lawn reno, I did it all all the manual labor. Will send you a PM with some suggestions for companies to hire out some of the work. While not the best practice, I didn't put down topsoil or compost. I just killed the grass, scalped as low as possible, aerated, seeded, fertilized, and watered. That was it. I did that for both the backyard reno and the front yard reno which were a few years apart. When I renovated my lawn I followed the steps outlined here: https://www.agry.purdue.edu/turfnew/tips/2007/07_16lawnimprovement.htm When it came time for seeding I rented a Lawn Solutions Turf Revitalizer.
> 
> When i started the backyard reno my wife didn't understand and the neighbors thought I had gone mad. I killed all the grass and then took the lawn mower and scalped it down as low as possible. They took some pics of the crazy guy cutting dead grass.
> 
> ...


I may need to have you stop by and give me some opinions.


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## icepickjazz (Apr 8, 2018)

Ri22o said:


> I may need to have you stop by and give me some opinions.


@Ri22o Happy to assist where I can. Although I have seen some of your drone shots and your grass is looking really good. I'm interested in following your fertilization products and results.


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## Ri22o (May 6, 2020)

icepickjazz said:


> Ri22o said:
> 
> 
> > I may need to have you stop by and give me some opinions.
> ...


Mainly just looking for affirmation from someone who is as into grass as I am. I have neighbors who appreciate their lawns, but I would say they do it just so it looks nice but with no real goal or wanting to be the best. They would also think me crazy just at the mention of burning it all down.

The backyard has definitely started coming around and I hope it stays on the up. I was able to make it to Advanced Turf Solutions and threw down 1 lb/k of 0-0-50 last night.


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## Ri22o (May 6, 2020)

Gr8tdanedad said:


> Hey @icepickjazz . Lawn looks awesome!!! You're definitely right by us and probably could drive a golf ball over here. Our backyard is easy to spot on Carey road-big Great Dane running wild with urine spots everywhere. Lol
> 
> I'm starting to seriously consider a full scale Reno. I need to get an irrigation system this season and it would be awesome if I could hire out some of the manual labor, to aerate, drop topsoil screened compost, etc. prior to throwing down seed. Did you happen to contract out any parts of your Reno?!
> 
> ...


How's it looking? Any improvements?


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## Gr8tdanedad (May 31, 2020)

@Ri22o . Some areas looking much better, other areas are super drought stressed. Looking at finally getting an irrigation system installed end of August. Definitely planning a partial reno shortly thereafter. So recently I've been following the soil recommendation remediation guidelines and put down: 
MAP: 2Lbs/1000
SOP: 1.5Lbs/1000
Sulfur (tiger 90): 1Lb/1000
I plan to follow the renovation guideline as posted by @g-man.. What are your thoughts on adding topsoil (menards) and aerating (significant compaction areas) after roundup? Should I try and have all soil amendments done prior to irrigation install?


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## Ri22o (May 6, 2020)

Gr8tdanedad said:


> @Ri22o . Some areas looking much better, other areas are super drought stressed. Looking at finally getting an irrigation system installed end of August. Definitely planning a partial reno shortly thereafter. So recently I've been following the soil recommendation remediation guidelines and put down:
> MAP: 2Lbs/1000
> SOP: 1.5Lbs/1000
> Sulfur (tiger 90): 1Lb/1000
> I plan to follow the renovation guideline as posted by @g-man.. What are your thoughts on adding topsoil (menards) and aerating (significant compaction areas) after roundup? Should I try and have all soil amendments done prior to irrigation install?


The ability to irrigate whenever you want, and on a regular schedule, will make a huge difference.

I'm still up in the air with my backyard. It is definitely doing better, but I am not quite happy with the vast mix of grasses I have going on. I guess I will see how it is later on this year.

I found that Ryan Knorr has a good set of videos on the Youtubes documenting his renovation. He sprayed several applications of Roundup, scalped, dethatched, aerated, topsoiled, and then seeded. (If I remember correctly)

Does Menards have topsoil back in stock? It seems every time I have gone those rows of shelves have been completely empty.


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## icepickjazz (Apr 8, 2018)

Ri22o said:


> I'm still up in the air with my backyard. It is definitely doing better, but I am not quite happy with the vast mix of grasses I have going on. I guess I will see how it is later on this year.
> 
> I found that Ryan Knorr has a good set of videos on the Youtubes documenting his renovation. He sprayed several applications of Roundup, scalped, dethatched, aerated, topsoiled, and then seeded. (If I remember correctly)


The vast array of grasses, plus clumping fescue, plus large gaps of no growth is finally what drove me to to my renovation. I followed similar approach, sprayed 2 applications of roundup, scalped, dethatched, aerated, fertilized and seeded. The seeder I used (Lawn Solutions Turf Revitalizer) served dual purpose, it could be used as both a dethatcher and as seeder.

According to Purdue the sweet spot for fall renovation in Indiana is Aug 15 - Sept 15. If you you renovate with ***, I would recommend the Aug 15 - Sept 1 range for seeding. *** is such a slow germinator the earlier the start you can get the better. When my house was built the seed went down around oct 1. It started to germinate but was not established enough and after the first winter, barely any came up the following spring.


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## Gr8tdanedad (May 31, 2020)

Thanks for all your info and previous guidance... That's essentially exactly what's driving me nuts.. My only issue is waiting on sprinkler install.. before I start round up I wanna make sure it's gonna be installed before August.. still awaiting a confirmation.. so we shall see..


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