# [Soccer] Field Renovation



## Hexadecimal 00FF00 (Sep 20, 2018)

I know this isn't the forte of this forum but I figure you folks will have some good input.

I have been approached about renovating a field into a soccer field. The land used to be a soccer field, long ago, but without proper maintenance it has turned into a mess over the years. The field is flat but not smooth/level - has ankle twisting undulations and peaks and valleys and cracks and is overrun with weeds. What grass exists is common Bermuda. 
I was asked because I have a nice yard and they know I have some equipment. The people essentially want me to turn this field into my yard. What they don't realize is that the work I put in to my 0.2 acres of grass is a whole lot different than what this 1.25 acres needs.

I don't have "big" equipment to work in that capacity so I figured I'd split the field in half to make the project manageable. In my yard I'd simply bring soil and/or sand in and spread it with my drag mat and leveling rake. I feel this project is beyond that approach though... maybe needs a box blade run over it - or even till or disc - either way roll it after then drag it. But I don't have a way to pull a box blade or tiller... my John Deere D130 lawn tractor if I could even rig up the box blade would get beat up if it could even pull the box blade effectively. My Ford F250... of any use??

Maybe I forgo the box blade or tilling and simply bring in soil to level with my drag mat. That approach, I think, will need more soil than tearing it up and rolling. Would still need soil on top after that but I don't think as much. Maybe tearing it up and rolling won't help.

So more randomness: the property is owned by a church and the people that approached me have a soccer team which rents usage of the field from the church. The team will not cover [much of] the cost, the church will cover none. My thought was I'll collect whatever money I can from the team and foot the difference myself as a "donation to the church" which I can itemize on my taxes.

Thoughts???


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

First, it sounds like someone who doesn't own the field, has approach you, and asked you to improve the condition of a property that neither part has an ownership stake in, for free. Why are you doing this for free? Has anyone from the church itself talk to you about this? Are you a member of that church?

Secondly, what is the desired outcome? Is the goal to stick with the common bermuda and just smooth it out, or are you trying to turn this into a full on legit soccer field? Those generally have a small crest and grade towards each touchline to encourage draining. Does the field have irrigation? Is it used year around? If there is any downtime, how long is it?


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## Hexadecimal 00FF00 (Sep 20, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> First, it sounds like someone who doesn't own the field, has approach you, and asked you to improve the condition of a property that neither part has an ownership stake in, for free. Why are you doing this for free? Has anyone from the church itself talk to you about this? Are you a member of that church?


The people two people that contacted me are both church members. That's how the team-church rental agreement came about it. The team was in a pinch and needed a place so the church member got in touch with the church. I am not a church member but have a family and friend connection to the team which is how they ended up contacting me.

Knowing the project can't be done on a shoestring budget I offered financial assistance in addition to equipment (whether I own it or rent it or even hire out dirt work) and labor.



Movingshrub said:


> Secondly, what is the desired outcome? Is the goal to stick with the common bermuda and just smooth it out, or are you trying to turn this into a full on legit soccer field? Those generally have a small crest and grade towards each touchline to encourage draining. Does the field have irrigation? Is it used year around? If there is any downtime, how long is it?


The goal is to stick with Bermuda but have a level (most importantly safe) field for practice. The field is currently used on occasion but it's difficult and unsafe. It's used when their primary practice field is not available - unavailable mostly due to heavy and frequent rain we've had around Dallas lately such that the league does not allow access to keep the fields in good shape.

It's a 7-on-7 league. The teams normally practice on full (game) fields. I'm aware of the grading.

The field has irrigation. The team plays year round - two practices per week and two games per week. But, again, this is not their primary field so I think I could pull off splitting the project in half... do one half of the field while they use the opposite then switch when the first half is ready to be used. They have two practices per week and two games per week.

The rental also includes mowing. The church has the same outfit that mows the main church grounds mowing this field now too. Mowing only though - no weed or feed.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

My opinion matters not, but I would probably pass. It's always flattering to be asked for help, but I would focus your energy, budget and time on your own lawn.

Alternatively, recruit volunteers to raise the money and do the work. If safety is a concern and the field is really a priority for the team, you should have no problem finding plenty of help.

Also check into what it takes to acquire/maintain an applicators license in your state - which you will likely need if you are applying anything to property you don't own.


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## Hexadecimal 00FF00 (Sep 20, 2018)

Ware, ha! If you only knew about my lawn... the reason I signed up here a few days ago! Relative to the average residential lawn - sure - mine is nice. But compared to many lawns I've seen here it's a big project waiting to start.

Yes, safety really is first and foremost. In the eight (?) practices there so far we've had a couple rolled ankles, one was bad. Then there's the matter of a proper surface such that the balls don't make strange bounces and maintain course. I'm hopeful for help and I believe some is available. How much remains to be seen. We'll see when it comes time to get dirty.

Very good point about the applicator license. I hadn't thought about that. Guess I'll be visiting the Texas Dept of Ag. Don't want to get a license though. Just wanna make a nice practice field. <bahhumbug>


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

Grading a field without the right equipment sounds miserable. Maybe you could help by finding the right pros to hire that out to. You'll probably want to audit the irrigation system. The sprinklers and lines may significantly impact the cost to grade / till / whatever. Then if you want to grow some bermuda, have fun!

I would definitely make a spreadsheet to estimate expenses and I'm sure some people here would help fill out items if you have questions. You could even estimate the costs of hiring out some of the things you'd rather not do (maybe mowing). Make one optimistic estimate and one absolute worse case estimate. The truth of the cost will be somewhere in the middle, and likely higher than you'd like to think.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

I think you may have given the primary reason to pass on this project and not known it. "The field is currently used on occasion... It's used when their primary practice field is not available...." If this is something you want to do I don't see any of us talking you out of it. But it seems like a lot of time and money to create a "side b**ch" field for them. Not to in any way insult your ability, but if their primary field is unplayable how much better do you think this field will be? Aside from a license that has been discussed, has their been any discussions about liability for injuries caused by the field? Right now the field is not good, but there are expectations when someone begins caring for a field. Without proper funding and help it just seems like a lot to undertake.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Ask the flock to spread enough sand to cover the entire field in 1/2 inch, then we'll talk.


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## Hexadecimal 00FF00 (Sep 20, 2018)

TN Hawkeye, you also brought up good points. But I'll respond to a couple points that need clarification.

The whole facility where the primary fields are is a flood area. The church field is fine though which is why the team can still practice there after heavy rain.

It's not that I want to sign up for more work. I'm simply willing to help them out. The church will also benefit though in a less significant way. But only if I can find a way that it makes sense. And not to be too personal but time and money are not an issue. Though I could absorb the entire cost to hire out making a spec-perfect football pitch without batting an eye I'd rather not. I want others to have a financial stake, some sweat equity too, as well because in the end I don't want them to continue to turn to me for ongoing maintenance (labor and/or cost).

The only experience I have in dirt work is a single back yard project at my house. Having never operated a skid steer before I moved, spread and graded about 65 yards of dirt in one day around my newly built pool. That was not a small project and it turned out fantastic... I'm more lucky than good though. On to more important matter, liabilities.

The rental includes protections for the church such that the team is playing at their own risk. In our litigious society, I've been thinking about this in terms of what is my liability if I'm the one rehabbing this field into something safe and playable and the somebody gets hurt. Is a parent going to sue me? Realistically, probably not but I'd be a fool to not protect myself which adds more to the project.

The more I discuss this with you folks the more my interest changes - into less/different involvement. The church and team need to sort out the dirt work (as somebody already suggested) then I come in at the end and help with simply growing nice grass. But any knucklehead can grow grass, I'm proof.

I'm glad I started this thread. I appreciate all the feedback.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

The one thing I don't think any of us want to do is talk you out of something you are excited to do. However with excitement needs to be precaution. This would definitely be something you can look back on when completed and have extreme sense of pride and accomplishment. But to quote Dr. Harrison Wells from The Flash " I urge restraint." Have the discussions with the church and the team about the end goal. Lay out the steps to get there and who will be responsible financially and physically. Make sure that you are included in the non-liability waver. And then have a blast getting dirty and growing some grass.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

If you still want to do this. I would aearte and drag the cores to get the surfaces more leveled (see Pete1313 thread). I would then use sand to finish the leveling. OSUturfman shared this in a different tread and it looks interesting.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5829&p=100563&hilit=spartan#p100563


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

TN Hawkeye said:


> The one thing I don't think any of us want to do is talk you out of something you are excited to do. However with excitement needs to be precaution. This would definitely be something you can look back on when completed and have extreme sense of pride and accomplishment. But to quote Dr. Harrison Wells from The Flash " I urge restraint." Have the discussions with the church and the team about the end goal. Lay out the steps to get there and who will be responsible financially and physically. Make sure that you are included in the non-liability waver. And then have a blast getting dirty and growing some grass.


+1


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## Hexadecimal 00FF00 (Sep 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> ...aearte and drag the cores to get the surfaces more leveled (see Pete1313 thread).


This was a part of my initial thinking before I thought through it more and subsequently posted, but , really, how much will this help? Along with those two activities I could apply pre and post-emergent and overseed rye. How far will that get me?

While I'm waiting on responses from the Texas Dept of Ag, the team, the church, my lawyer, an equipment rental contact and a contact to hire out to I'm trying to do some legwork to get rough estimates of costs from both ends of the spectrum (minimal work/cost to full tilt), for the amount of work/various steps and the expected result.


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## Hexadecimal 00FF00 (Sep 20, 2018)

FYI - I received a response from the Texas Dept of Ag inquiring about the need for a state applicator license where an individual is applying product as a donation to the church. A "Certification and Compliance Specialist" responded with...



> No. Since there is no compensation, and general-use products are being applied, there is no license required for this situation.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

God Bless Texas


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Hexadecimal 00FF00 said:


> FYI - I received a response from the Texas Dept of Ag inquiring about the need for a state applicator license where an individual is applying product as a donation to the church. A "Certification and Compliance Specialist" responded with...
> 
> 
> 
> > No. Since there is no compensation, and general-use products are being applied, there is no license required for this situation.


Awesome!


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## osuturfman (Aug 12, 2017)

Hexadecimal 00FF00 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > ...aearte and drag the cores to get the surfaces more leveled (see Pete1313 thread).
> ...


Even though I'm 1,500 miles away, I would be happy to help you in any way I can on your project. I have a consulting business on the side in which I write, manage, and close out contracts for sports field maintenance and renovation projects. You would be surprised at the stark differences between good and bad contractors who do (or attempt to) work on sports fields.

Any questions, please feel free to ask. Thanks!


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## Hexadecimal 00FF00 (Sep 20, 2018)

osuturfman said:


> Any questions, please feel free to ask. Thanks!


Thank you very much.

And, thanks to all to that responded.


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

If you decide to take this on, I know I'd subscribe to a journal that documents it!


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