# Battle of the 30" mower



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

I have long debated the commercial route to satisfy my needs, but a nice commercial mower with floating deck is not in the budget. It just is not worth it.

So, I have accepted that the 30" mower is likely my best best. In this space there are a few, but the only 2 I have looked at are the Toro and the exmark. I am curious if anyone has had experience with either and also, what is your opinion and why maybe.

It seems the Toro is the right fit as the engine has more power, but I also read that it won't get me through my entire 13k sqft. Not that filling gas is a negative, but it tells me fuel efficiency is just not good. I also saw some people with motor issues.

I know Briggs can be ok, I mean my 20+ year old tractor has one, so it could be random failure. The exmark has a Kawasaki, but it seems way under powered. I think if it had the 200+cc then I wouldn't be so hesitant to go exmark with the commercial build. While they are made by the same company, you can totally see the build quality on the exmark, it just looks beefy.

Anyway, just curious what people think. Thanks.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

I recently had to buy a new mower for my new (to us) digs.

I considered spending WAY WAY too much on a zero turn. In the end I think I came up with a reasonable compromise.
Exmark and Toro both looked very good to me, and unless you got the odd bad model you would likely be OK. The nearest Mower store to me and one where I have bought lots of small equipment from is an Exmark dealer. They are built like tanks.

I started out looking at Grasshopper because I was told that was the best machine there is. A local Grasshopper dealer is also a Hustler dealer and he said I needed to look at the Hustler. It has 25hp and one of things I liked about the Grasshopper was the flip up deck which this model of Hustler also has. The dealer in violation of the instruction manual stood on the deck and operated the deck lift , which lifted the rear of the mower off the ground. The deck on the Hustler is a heavy duty fabricated unit. It has big reinforcement disks where the spindles are and bigger spindles that Home Depot mowers. It was about 2/3 the price of a Grasshopper of the same general size and hp.

Nobody ever got fired for getting the one with more horsepower. Get the biggest engine you can manage to afford.
Like buying a house , stretch your finances as far as you can. You will be living with your purchases for a long time.
The commercial grade mowers are much more solidly built. On the other hand for what they cost you often can buy multiples of cheaper ones. But the sting of the high price will fade but the enjoyment of getting the right one will last.

I have a large lawn and considered a 60 inch. But I am glad I went with a 54 because I am pretty sure I would have had to adjust my technique and pattern because of excessive width. I don't have problems with scalping.(except on the biggest molehills but their days are going to be very numbered! :evil: ) But wider usually means faster.

https://www.lowesforpros.com/lawn-mowers/worldlawn-337-cu-cm-32-in-key-start-self-propelled-rear-wheel-drive-commercial-gas-lawn-mower-with-mulching-capability_g2621475.html
These look good to me. The Lawn Care Nut gave the unit a lukewarm review mostly due to cutting height issues. I think it just did not fit his style of cutting and did not give him the "enjoy the mow" experience he looks for.

I don't think for most end users , worrying much about who built the engine is very fruitful. They all make better ones and less good ones. See where the engine is in the matrix of their products. Then take good care of it buy keeping clean oil in it and hopefully buying one that has a pressurized oil system with a spin on oil filter like a car. Keep the cooling fins clear and in the spring peek inside to make sure no rodents have taken up residence in the cooling fins (this happened at work and nobody noticed till the very large Briggs single cylinder seized up. Yours truly took his MoJack and mechanic tools to work and swapped engines.).

There are many many good choices out there.

PS:At the time I bought my Scott's (made by Murray, spring 1999) at Home Depot , it was the widest deck and highest hp that they had (52" 20 hp ) It was about 2700 dollars which was about half of what a commercial mower or tractor cost. It still runs very well although needs a muffler in the worst way.


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

Or, I stick with the 21". Was just at home depot, they have a hrx 217 for 485


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

gene_stl said:


> I recently had to buy a new mower for my new (to us) digs.
> 
> I considered spending WAY WAY too much on a zero turn. In the end I think I came up with a reasonable compromise.
> Exmark and Toro both looked very good to me, and unless you got the odd bad model you would likely be OK. The nearest Mower store to me and one where I have bought lots of small equipment from is an Exmark dealer. They are built like tanks.
> ...


Do hp and cc go hand in hand or can lower cc have equal or more hp than the mower with higher cc?


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

Generally speaking cc displacement is well correlated with horsepower. There was some big lawsuit or FTC action against the motor manufacturers for overstating power so they have started highlighting displacements and torque. All it does is make stuff even more confusing. :evil:
But all yard equipment engines are normally aspirated and designed to run on fairly low octane fuel (ie relatively low compression) so cc s are almost as good a quantity as horsepower.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Hp vs cc depends. A flat or L-head engine will make significantly less power compared to an OHV or OHC engine of equivalent displacement. Torque @ xxxx RPM is a good way measure HP  but torque specs are usually just xx lb/ft or Nm and the torque peak of the engine is rarely advertised.

The 30" mowers are the one case where I have heard multiple accounts of the engine not having enough power for some conditions. Most mowers are very over-powered. 22+hp v-twins running 42" riding lawn tractors case in point.

The bru-ha-ha a few years back was well deserved in my opinion. Engine mfgs were advertising max HP produced by the engine, calculated by heat and fuel consumption. Rather than actual brake HP. Like that's going to be a useful number...... Anybody remember 7 hp engines on Craftsman 21" walk-behinds?


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## glenmonte (Sep 15, 2017)

I have the Exmark. I bought it right before Toro made their changes, otherwise I probably would have went with the Toro for the engine. I hear ya on the Briggs, but I think their older stuff was "lesser" quality than their newer commercial stuff. I have about 12k to cut with it, and to be honest, it's sometimes quicker to just zip through once with a 21 than twice with the 30, or once with the 30 and keep stopping to clear the deck. Most problems are mulching and, yes, even side discharge in the spring. Bagging, mulching leaves, cutting every other month besides April and May are all pretty good. As a matter of fact, the bagging comes out the be the greatest benefit because of bag size- less times stopping, like your concern with fuel. I usually just top off each time before starting, but I don't think it takes more than 2/3 tank, so you won't be stopping to refuel. As a matter of fact, I even got through with my 21 inch lawn boy with honda on a tank without stopping.

Bottom line, I'd be very careful about spending close to 2,000 for a new machine, and if I could do it over again, I'd look at a used Toro 32 Inch T-Bar for a similar price. I even had mine up on Craigslist for the first half of the season just to see if I'd get any bites for a decent price (all low ballers, so most cost effective to just keep it and use it instead of losing on the deal).

If you were in the area, I'd let you take it for a spin now (works great) and next spring (meh) just to see what I mean.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

glenmonte said:


> I have the Exmark. I bought it right before Toro made their changes, otherwise I probably would have went with the Toro for the engine. I hear ya on the Briggs, but I think their older stuff was "lesser" quality than their newer commercial stuff. I have about 12k to cut with it, and to be honest, it's sometimes quicker to just zip through once with a 21 than twice with the 30, or once with the 30 and keep stopping to clear the deck. Most problems are mulching and, yes, even side discharge in the spring. Bagging, mulching leaves, cutting every other month besides April and May are all pretty good. As a matter of fact, the bagging comes out the be the greatest benefit because of bag size- less times stopping, like your concern with fuel. I usually just top off each time before starting, but I don't think it takes more than 2/3 tank, so you won't be stopping to refuel. As a matter of fact, I even got through with my 21 inch lawn boy with honda on a tank without stopping.
> 
> Bottom line, I'd be very careful about spending close to 2,000 for a new machine, and if I could do it over again, I'd look at a used Toro 32 Inch T-Bar for a similar price. I even had mine up on Craigslist for the first half of the season just to see if I'd get any bites for a decent price (all low ballers, so most cost effective to just keep it and use it instead of losing on the deal).
> 
> If you were in the area, I'd let you take it for a spin now (works great) and next spring (meh) just to see what I mean.


What was you height of cut? Cool season lawns in your area aren't usually -that- tough unless you are cutting extra low.


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## glenmonte (Sep 15, 2017)

That was cutting at 4-4.5 inches. I keep it high.


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

My mower now is a John Deere je75. My issue with it is if the grass starts getting long I cannot mulch. Which is what is said about the 30" mowers. Once grass is wet and a little long, they cannot mulch right and leave clumps. For that, there is little reason for me to replace my John Deere if I'm going to be in the same spot cut wise.

Maybe my issue is simpler and comes down to missing blade rpm etc. I've had the mower 10 years and never touched the belt.

Maybe it just needs a solid tune up and maintenance. Spend 100 and revive the old beast. If that's all it is after all.

There is also the possibility that I am way over thinking things and the 30 will be fine regardless, compared to my current arsenal. Which thwn also begs the question, if I am putting 100+ into the John Deere am I better off with the Honda at 500.


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

glenmonte said:


> I have the Exmark. I bought it right before Toro made their changes, otherwise I probably would have went with the Toro for the engine. I hear ya on the Briggs, but I think their older stuff was "lesser" quality than their newer commercial stuff. I have about 12k to cut with it, and to be honest, it's sometimes quicker to just zip through once with a 21 than twice with the 30, or once with the 30 and keep stopping to clear the deck. Most problems are mulching and, yes, even side discharge in the spring. Bagging, mulching leaves, cutting every other month besides April and May are all pretty good. As a matter of fact, the bagging comes out the be the greatest benefit because of bag size- less times stopping, like your concern with fuel. I usually just top off each time before starting, but I don't think it takes more than 2/3 tank, so you won't be stopping to refuel. As a matter of fact, I even got through with my 21 inch lawn boy with honda on a tank without stopping.
> 
> Bottom line, I'd be very careful about spending close to 2,000 for a new machine, and if I could do it over again, I'd look at a used Toro 32 Inch T-Bar for a similar price. I even had mine up on Craigslist for the first half of the season just to see if I'd get any bites for a decent price (all low ballers, so most cost effective to just keep it and use it instead of losing on the deal).
> 
> If you were in the area, I'd let you take it for a spin now (works great) and next spring (meh) just to see what I mean.


yeah, I 100% don't want this. If I am spending 2k I would be super annoyed, but even at 1k I do not expect clumping, etc. I see this as a waste as the 40% I save in width is quickly lost in time to clear the deck. I know it won't be all the time, but when I go I want to go. I only want to stop for weeds. A part of me wants to go get the HRX 217 at HD for 485, then sell my John Deere and call it a day.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

kolbasz said:


> My mower now is a John Deere je75. My issue with it is if the grass starts getting long I cannot mulch. Which is what is said about the 30" mowers. Once grass is wet and a little long, they cannot mulch right and leave clumps. For that, there is little reason for me to replace my John Deere if I'm going to be in the same spot cut wise.
> 
> Maybe my issue is simpler and comes down to missing blade rpm etc. I've had the mower 10 years and never touched the belt.
> 
> ...


That JE75 is one of the best 21" rotary machines EVER. Not really a stellar mulcher in tough conditions but they do fine in normal to lighter stuff, especially cutting high. I have yet to see anything in the 21" class match the cut quality with a sharp blade and the bag on. They have great vacuum and really pack the bag well. Side discharge is different with the left side rear chute setup but they eat the tall stuff almost as good as the old 2-stroke LawnBoys did. Plus, that little Kawi will live forever with proper care. Yours has the oil filter kit? All of them were pressure lube OHV engines. Much better power for their time than the typical flat-head Briggs.

I'd keep that mower alive as long as possible!


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

So what your saying is take it in for a proper service, tuning, belt etc. It used to be good and I never had mulching issues, but lately, unless it barely grew I get clumps. Maybe my issue is just a lack of rpm.

Guess it is worth the small investment. The wheels are bare, never gave it much thought but should I replace these too, does it make a difference in the 21" realm?


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

kolbasz said:


> So what your saying is take it in for a proper service, tuning, belt etc. It used to be good and I never had mulching issues, but lately, unless it barely grew I get clumps. Maybe my issue is just a lack of rpm.
> 
> Guess it is worth the small investment. The wheels are bare, never gave it much thought but should I replace these too, does it make a difference in the 21" realm?


You can spend a fair bit of $$ in parts on it but it's one of those machines that can be restored to like new performance over and over again. Bare wheels aren't much of a problem unless you have traction issues. Run 'em until they fall off!! The JX85 had steel ball-bearing wheels but those are NLA from Deere and the JX85 itself is quite rare.

I had the same mower in a Briggs powered, push-only, version. (14PZ) It mulched cool-season grass pretty well as long as I had the mulch plug fully seated and the right blade on it. Deere makes 2 blades for that mower, a bag/discharge only and a mulch version. In my experience, the mulch blade bags and discharges just as well as the bagging version. RPM's are pretty critical to getting any mower to work well. A tune-up sounds like a splendid idea.


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

MasterMech said:


> A tune-up sounds like a splendid idea.


Yeah, I have had the machine 10 years now. I received it used from my father in law when we moved into the house. In the time I have had it, I bought an air filter, replaced a wheel bolt after it snapped in half, replaced the oil, sharpened some blades and greased the wheels at the grease point like twice (I only learned of this 2 years ago).

The most major work was done last year, when I had to replace the blade brake clutch.

As far as things wrong with it, I know the battery for the electric start is dead and the transmission cable is snapped so I have one speed which is max.

Other than that, the machine has never given me much of a headache. Really, the only issue I have now is that I am having to bag because mulching performance is sub par, so cut time is way up. I really would much rather spend the money on a tune-up to rejuvenate this puppy, especially if you say it is one of the best 21" mowers of its time. With a statement like that, I feel the minor issues of the 30" mowers discussed would still be super annoying, because those issues don't solve much for me other than getting a wider cut and shorter cut time.

P.S. I think you just breathed new life into this JX75. I never knew it had a rear/side discharge, my father in law picked it up somewhere and it only had the plug and bag, never realized there was a side discharge option. The few times I did rear, I put a stick to hold the door open and wore pants...

the part is 30$.

I am getting it and also some skid guards because I can. I am also considering the oil filter adapter, I don't know why exactly, but I am thinking about it. Would it make a difference other than looks?

One of the front height adjusters is worn, going to get the jx85 plate to remediate this too.


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

just ordered $160 in parts, some skid guards, wheel height brackets as my front ones are worn, so might as well add the rear too, ordered a transmission cable to repair that and have some control, etc..

guess that ends the 30" mower discussion.

Guess all that is left is a tune up to ensure the engine is running well as there is a small issue where it sometimes sort of hesitates as I start a run in each direction and it first hits some grass etc.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

kolbasz said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> > A tune-up sounds like a splendid idea.
> ...


Those were a $900+ machine toward the end of the production run. Deere ran the molds for that deck until the cosmetic defects became too obvious and then cut production. Sad day when I sold my last JX75. The 14PZ, 14PB, 14SZ, 14SB, and 14SE all share the same basic design as the JA65, JX75, JE75, and the JX85.

Regarding the oil filter, it's expensive and does provide a filter where none was before. But I highly doubt you would notice any extra longevity and simply halving the change interval would probably yield similar and more affordable results. But if I was restoring a JA/JX to keep, I'd probably want the filter. :lol: but I am a guy who has downsized to a 4hp mower with a kickstand, so what do I know? 😆


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

What are the cosmetic defects? Just curious


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

kolbasz said:


> What are the cosmetic defects? Just curious


There was mostly some pitting that was getting pretty obvious, and resulting in a less than desirable surface finish, especially on a 21" W/B that was approaching the $1,000 price point.


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

Hmm, who knows, I never noticed anything till now so maybe mine is ok


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## Nomo (Jun 6, 2017)

Here is a thread I started about the Toro Time Master.

http://www.thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1278

I've used it 3 times since I've gotten it. It has rained every week since I bought it so I ended up cutting wet grass each and every time. The mower powers through almmost anything but it will create a lot of gunk under the deck. The blades still run fine even under those conditions.

I can't speak towards longevity but I love it. Plus it puts the other mowers in the neighborhood to shame. What's that...a 22" mower? Hahaha


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

Thanks. I am most intrigued by the conflicting reports of deck clogs, but let's see how things are after a few more mows and the spring growth.

For now, I am excited about my revived John Deere, the wife told me to stop talking about it.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

kolbasz said:


> Hmm, who knows, I never noticed anything till now so maybe mine is ok


It likely is. I've never seen one in the wild with such defects.


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

dropped my mower for a tune-up, new belt install, throttle cable. Then, we wait for spring.


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