# What type of grass seed to use where 80% of the season is shaded?



## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

I have an area in the front of my house that faces North that gets minimal Sun until right in the middle of summer. Should I use a dense shade mix or should I use a shade tolerant type grass seed? Like I said it's pretty shaded for majority of the year.

I believe my current mixture would be Kentucky bluegrass and perennial ryegrass but it's shaded enough and damp enough that I actually have moss growing in that area.

Let me know your thoughts


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## zjfriedman (Jun 21, 2019)

I've had great results with Jonathan Greens Black Beauty seed


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

You want a blend or mix with at least half the seed being Chewings and/or Creeping Red Fescue in this situation. The grass may still struggle, but these are the very best for shade. Look for named varieties as well.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

Green said:


> You want a blend or mix with at least half the seed being Chewings and/or Creeping Red Fescue in this situation. The grass may still struggle, but these are the very best for shade. Look for named varieties as well.


So I believe Scotts Sun & Shade has chewings and/or Red Fescue in it... could that potentially be an option. I know the *** and PRG in that mix would not make it though.

Or, would it be better to look for a Chewings/Red Fescue mix mainly?

Thanks


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## PNW_George (May 28, 2018)

A Fine Fescue Blend of Chewings FF and Strong Creeping FF could be a good option. A concern is in your original post you mention it is damp. Fine Fescue does best in soil that drains well. If it is soggy and damp most of the time, FF will not do as well. Adding sand and good drainage can address this if needed.

A mix that includes some KBG and or PRG while still having the majority of seed made up of Chewings FF and Strong Creeping FF would be a good option. Go by seed count percentages if you can. KBG seed is so much smaller than FF seed and by weight should be a small fraction of the FF weight. You can always buy a FF blend and then add a separate application of a mix that includes KBG and PRG in order to get the percentages you want.


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## oredigger (Oct 2, 2019)

Sort of uncommon and I don't have much experience with this, but Poa Trivalis is supposedly good for shady AND soggy conditions. I'm trying it out this year in the part of my lawn that is always damp and shaddy.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

PNW_George said:


> A Fine Fescue Blend of Chewings FF and Strong Creeping FF could be a good option. A concern is in your original post you mention it is damp. Fine Fescue does best in soil that drains well. If it is soggy and damp most of the time, FF will not do as well. Adding sand and good drainage can address this if needed.
> 
> A mix that includes some KBG and or PRG while still having the majority of seed made up of Chewings FF and Strong Creeping FF would be a good option. Go by seed count percentages if you can. KBG seed is so much smaller than FF seed and by weight should be a small fraction of the FF weight. You can always buy a FF blend and then add a separate application of a mix that includes KBG and PRG in order to get the percentages you want.


Thanks for the reply. I will definitely take that into consideration. It's damp right now but we've had a lot of rain. I guess I'll have to see what it does in the summer to get a better idea. I don't think it stays damn all summer long but we've had a crazy amount of rain the last 3 weeks.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

oredigger said:


> Sort of uncommon and I don't have much experience with this, but Poa Trivalis is supposedly good for shady AND soggy conditions. I'm trying it out this year in the part of my lawn that is always damp and shaddy.


Most people try to get rid of poa. You're going to add it?


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## oredigger (Oct 2, 2019)

yeah, this part of my lawn has so much poa that I don't feel I have much to lose. Nothing else seems to grow in this shady and damp area


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## confused_boner (Apr 5, 2021)

My GCI fescue does amazing on the north side of the house


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## SnootchieBootchies (Mar 23, 2021)

I just accept the small portion of my lawn that dies off every late fall due to lack of sun. The plus side is it's easy to spring seed and carry through late fall given the lack of scorching sun. So early spring I kill the moss that inevitably grows, rake out, then seed. Not ideal, but works well. My front yard shady spots still get a few hours of sun and Mazama KBG has flourished in those spots....but it's never completely devoid of sun, just short periods.


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## 2L8 (Mar 18, 2019)

derowe82 said:


> oredigger said:
> 
> 
> > Sort of uncommon and I don't have much experience with this, but Poa Trivalis is supposedly good for shady AND soggy conditions. I'm trying it out this year in the part of my lawn that is always damp and shaddy.
> ...


The better alternative is Poa supina. It feels comfortable in the same conditions as Pt, but also has the same light green color.

For me Ps works well in the shade. Only in summer you have to be careful that it does not dry up.


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## vancwa (Oct 28, 2021)

oredigger said:


> yeah, this part of my lawn has so much poa that I don't feel I have much to lose. Nothing else seems to grow in this shady and damp area


The grass seed dealer I use here in Portland sells poa triv seed for locations that dont get sun, say the narrow side yard with walls or fences surrounding that keep it in constant shade. The sales people jokingly say it would grow at the bottom of your closet. Maybe no joke.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

Site One has the shady mix with the above mentioned fescues.


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

derowe82 said:


> I believe my current mixture would be *Kentucky bluegrass and perennial ryegrass*....................


Probably the worst choice for a shady area. Fine fescues are your best bet for shade - these include creeping red, Chewings and hard fescue. Some newer tall fescue cultivatars (TTTF) will grow in shade as well, but I would still use mostly fine fescues.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

Thanks all.


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

I believe poa supina has been adapted to shady conditions and does well in more moist soils. I could be wrong on that second part.


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## Lawnbadix (10 mo ago)

Poa Supina owner here, go for it when you got wet ground and make sure to fertilize it regularly. That's how it rolls. It likes to get cut lower than other shade tolerants for sure and won't be ugly just as Trivialis is gonna be. It's robust af but takes 1 winter to start establishing, this is most important for it to really start going.
3 years with Supina you'll have it everywhere. It's a quiet sexy poa as well and outperforms anything I'm aware of.

Edit: Spelling during rush fixed.


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## Old Hickory (Aug 19, 2019)

Lawnbadix said:


> Poa Supina owner here


I would like to see some photos of your lawn, if you would. I'm not sure I've seen a poa supina lawn.


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

Not to shill out PV because I have it but Pro Vista does well in the shade.


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## Old Hickory (Aug 19, 2019)

What I've discovered in the past 3 years is that "shade" has several different definitions. Some lawns get a few hours of direct sunlight and they are called shaded. Some lawns get all-day filtered shade and they are called shaded.

I get a few hours of direct sunlight with the majority of hours being filtered shade. All the shade is provided by very large oak trees in neighbors' yards. I have Black Beauty Ultra and it has adapted very well to the conditions. That said, if you have many trees then you'll need a fine fescue as the moist, shaded, and competing with tree roots conditions call for that type of grass.


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## Lawnbadix (10 mo ago)

Old Hickory said:


> I would like to see some photos of your lawn, if you would. I'm not sure I've seen a poa supina lawn.


I'd like to suggest you to take a look at the german channel PerfectGreen on YT, he has established PS. I just started mine in last years summer heat but it's already started taking over because I watered regularly, fertilized the shit out of it and used some Primo Max II to push it. It's flowering rn. However I'll add some photos when I'm back home again.
It feels really nice to put your naked feets on it. Note it's light green so you won't notice infestation of other Poa usually. Also it's regenerating itself and outcompetes any other grass afaik which is why I mainly decided to go for it.


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

MarkB who has a journal here has a Poa Supina lawn(s), he is in the UK. I had it for one year but decided to replace with Rye, I don't have a shade issue and wanted a darker grass type. My neighbour has it still, doesn't look great as he never feeds it and cuts twice a month, but it is dense and I've seen no die off of notice.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

I'm 3 weeks into a poa supina reno right now - (located in NJ). I don't have any input to add other than it germinated in about 14 days, with 5 consecutive days of sub 40 temps. The color was lime green up until today when it darkened several shades (currently, some areas with heavy growth are almost as dark as prg I planted).

Question for Supina users:
If you do Reno with supina, does the lack of sunlight affect the germination? Everybody uses this for heavily shaded areas but what's the minimum amount of light per day needed for germinate/survival? 1 hr, 2 hrs.. 30 min lol


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## Lawnbadix (10 mo ago)

From my experience (already shared this in another forum) Poa Supina starts germination after 8 days already.
Germination does not need light.
Moisture and air is enough to get enzymes running for any seed. Urban legend says lawn seed needs light but that false statement.
However, the lawn blades do indeed need light to utilize photosynthesis.

I already said you need 1 year to get Supina started but forgot to add that you need that 1 exact winter for the rhizomes popping up (some fancy dna stuff). I can verify that 100%.


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## Lawnbadix (10 mo ago)

One example of my formerly heavily overgrown and underperforming shadow side.
Sun only during morning hours.

It's mainly KBG and Poa Supina with some very small part Rye and Fescue (without any bentgrass %). Or maybe it's getting taken over by Triv, however I cannot seem to find it confirmed being as ugly like supposed to be if so. Mow <4 cm instead <1.5 cm atm because I'm lazy watering every day with the heat coming up. Gonna add more soon. Pic is from today morning.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

derowe82 said:


> I have an area in the front of my house that faces North that gets minimal Sun until right in the middle of summer. Should I use a dense shade mix or should I use a shade tolerant type grass seed? Like I said it's pretty shaded for majority of the year.


I'm kind of late to the party with regard to seeing this thread (been working on the lawn instead of reading TLF), but I have the same situation at my house in New Hampshire. How much sun you get on the north side of the house during the year will depend upon your latitude. The distance from your house that is shaded will also depend upon the height of your house. I'm at a latitude of about N 43° with a two story house, so the roof is about 20 feet above the ground.

Michigan is a big state - Detroit is at N 42° and Sault Ste Marie is at N 46° so there's a big variation there. The further north one is, the worse this shade problem gets, as further north the sun just doesn't get very high in the sky, even in midsummer.

Basically, I have found that the ground that is within about 8 feet of the north side of our house doesn't get enough sun to sustain grass long-term without gradual decline over the years. Even weeds and _Poa trivialis_ don't do very well in this area - any bare spots I get tend to fill in with moss instead of with weeds. That "8 feet distance" isn't a sharp line - basically it's a continuum, with closer to the north side of the house being worse, and further away being better. By about 12-15 feet from the house, grass grows without any apparent deficit.

When I renovated this area, I seeded with a quality (elite-level) shady mix, with 90% fine fescues and 10% Prosperity KBG. The grass germinated well, and looked great the first year. Steady decline ensued, however, and I've never been able to reverse it. I estimate that probably about 25% loss occurs each year, so that although it looked great the first year, and good the second year, by the fifth year, I was down to about 25% coverage.

Re-seeding every couple years could provide reasonable results, but such a shady area will never be a thriving area of lawn, and definitely not an area which would be tolerant of wear.

It took me longer than it should have, but I eventually decided that other shade-tolerant plants were a much better solution. I've switched over to hosta in one section and pachysandra in another section. Both of them love the shade and make the area look nice, although they're not lawn. I'd highly suggest you try something other than grass in this area.

Depending upon how you want to use the area and the look that appeals to you, options range from pavement, crushed rock, or mulch to shade-loving plants such as hosta or ferns.


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Lawnbadix said:


> One example of my formerly heavily overgrown and underperforming shadow side.
> Sun only during morning hours.
> 
> It's mainly KBG and Poa Supina with some very small part Rye and Fescue (without any bentgrass %). Or maybe it's getting taken over by Triv, however I cannot seem to find it confirmed being as ugly like supposed to be if so. Mow <4 cm instead <1.5 cm atm because I'm lazy watering every day with the heat coming up. Gonna add more soon. Pic is from today morning.


Wow, that sure is a nice stand of turf.


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## Lawnbadix (10 mo ago)

Currently I'm about 10 months in after complete renovation on these 3 main test spots. Fun part is I did pick a shade tolerant cool season lawn in mainly sun area because of the domination it provides granted you will ever irrigate. Weed free 95% (5% to overseed) because it cannot find any way in.
Annual bluegrass will be hard to spot inside her big sister plus gets outcompeted so less care/labor/chemical for that.

Most realistic shot color I could archive.
KBG (Kentucky Bluegrass/Poa Pratensis) vs SBG (Supine bluegrass/Poa Supina) difference is big outside normal day light condition. One of the darkes vs one of the lightest green species. However as one could see in my last post in the sun you won't notice any much difference.

First on sun side where I removed 100s of Supine plants by hand when I thought it's annual bluegrass. It not yet outcompeting the KBG (plus I oversod pure KBG couple times).





Under tree shots, more shaded area so it already dominates:





Tried to get the leaves away, ended up almost pulling it. Rhizomes grandmother making it hard.







Kids playground, also sun area.


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