# Powhatan's 2019 Lawn Journal



## Powhatan

2018 Journal

*January*​_Third year establishing lawn. No irrigation. Low rate nitrogen feeding and soil improvement amendments will be the focus. I do not plan on applying fungicides this season._​

Hand-pulled some weeds: orchard grass, bittercress, spurge, and marestail; and some poa trivialis from nearby woods ... fed all those to the composter. Edit: Hand-pulled one poa annua that started to show a seed head.

*February*​

Mailed soil sample to Virginia Tech Soil Lab for testing.

Hand-pulled some weeds: orchard grass and poa annua ... fed all those to the composter.

Late winter dormant overseed whole yard 8#/M - 75# DLF Pickseed KY-31 coated, 10# Scotts Southern Gold TTTF coated, and 10# Southern Belle TTTF. Soil temp 54F @ 2" depth.

*March*​

Wild birds been eating some of the overseed so put down some reserve KY-31/TTTF seed. First week of Mar is forecasted 40sF/20sF, then the warm up begins 60s/40s with rain showers.

Hand-pulled weeds: several poa annua and some hairy bittercress starting to flower, fed those to the composter.

The forsythia and daffodils starting to bloom in lower part of county. Put down 1st preM app (mesotrione) 22# Scotts Starter Plus Weed Preventer & 50# alfalfa pellets. Soil temp 46F @ 2" depth, temp anticipated to be in 50s by middle next week along with higher air temps.

Soil temp warmed-up to 53F. The mesotrione preM is starting to light up poa annua, I hand-pulled several and fed them to the composter.

Received soil sample test results from Va Tech - pH 6.6, CEC 8.5, and OM 3.1%. P, Ca, and Mg at high amounts so no need to apply more, need nitrogen and K.

Starting to see grass seed germination. Soil temp 59F @ 2" depth.

Native plant roots starting to sprout.

Sprayed several orchard grass clumps with EcoLogic Weed & Grass Killer.

*April*​

Hand-pulled weeds: poa annua and poa trivialis, bagged them and disposed in county waste removal. Lots more undesirable poa clumps to eradicate, I'll spray those with EcoLogic Weed & Grass Killer later in the week once it warms up again.

Sprayed numerous poa trivialis clumps with Dr. Earth Final Stop weed & grass killer, used whole gallon jug. Need another gallon jug, several more clumps to spray.

Sprayed a 2nd round of Dr. Earth Final Stop on the poa triv clumps.

Sprayed 1st round of Roundup Weed & Grass Killer (glyphosate) on several poa triv and poa annua clumps.

Sprayed Roundup For Northern Lawns Ready-to-Spray (includes quinclorac) to kill all weeds. Two weeks later, this RTS did not kill the poa triv.

Planted four Encore Azaleas and three Iris.

Mulch mowed, set HOC to 4". Put down 22# Andersons Humic DG, 50# LESCO 19-0-7 Dimension Crabgrass Preventer Fertilizer, and 30# EcoLogic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer.

Put down Scotts LawnSoil to raise low lawn spots.

*May*​

Mulch mowed, lowered HOC to 3.75". My summer HOC will be either 3.5" or 3.25" to allow good canopy airflow and minimize humidity moisture surface retention.

Sprayed glyphosate on several poa trivialis clumps.

Mulch mowed, lowered HOC to 3.5". Put down 25# Carbon X, Scotts GrubEX (chlorantraniliprole) 1x10M, and 30# EcoLogic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer.

Spot sprayed non-selective Mirimichi Green Weed Control Concentrate @ 13% mix rate on several gravel driveway weeds and unwanted grass clumps.

Air temps in the 90sF for a few days in late May.

Mulched mowed, lowered HOC to 3.25" for more air flow. Put down Scotts Topsoil to raise low spots

*June*​

Added border gravel and some more mulch in the Encore Azalea bed.

Spot sprayed Mirimichi Green Weed Control Concentrate @ 13% mix rate on orchard grass clumps and gravel driveway weeds.

Put down 40# EcoLogic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer.

Air temps staying in the 80sF. Receiving random seasonal afternoon/evening thundershowers.

Added more mulch to the Encore Azalea and native plant beds.

Started harvesting KY-31 seeds.

Hand-pulled various weeds from the gravel driveway and fed those to the composter.

Submitted mystery plant (poa triv suspected) samples to Virginia Tech lab. Identified as Rough Bluegrass (poa trivialis).

Summer is here, air temps climbing back up to the 90sF.

Hand-pulled a few nutsedge weeds from lawn edge in back yard. This same area has some rust disease on mostly PRG.

*July*​

Hot and dry previous 3 weeks. Shadier parts of lawn KY-31 grass height up to 4" - 6" while sunnier parts TTTF lawn no growth and in early dormancy. Raised HOC from 3.25" to 3.50". Increased chance of thundershowers for next several days. Received 0.82" of rain after 3+ weeks of no rain.

Sprayed organic Garden Safe Brand Fungicide3 (70% neem oil) on rust disease areas.

Put down 40# EcoLogic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer.

Lowered HOC from 3.50" to 3.25". Noticed some brown patch spots in the side and backyard areas that receive morning and late afternoon shade, sprayed Garden Safe Brand Fungicide3.

Finished harvesting KY-31 seeds, about 1/2 pound collected.

Mid to late Jul air temps mid-90s to 103F with little to no rain. Jul 23 cold front came through and dropped air temps and rain.

Mulch mowed, Raised HOC to 3.50". Put down 50# Ringer 9-0-2 organic fertilizer.

Sprayed another round of organic Garden Safe Brand Fungicide3 (70% neem oil) on brown patch disease areas, much less infected blades, areas greening up.

Picked up about 5 GL bucket amount of soil obstruction rocks from the front and side yards, lots more to pick up.

Late July air temps back up to mid-90s to 100F.

*August*​
The encore azaleas have yellowing leaves indicating iron deficiency. Put down 3/4 cup Pennington UltraGreen Azalea, Camellia & Rhododendron Plant Food 10-8-6 around each plant.

Hand-pulled several Annual Sedges. The majority are growing at the entrance and to the side of the gravel driveway. The spring applied preM protection layer probably wore off this late in summer.

Picked up several small soil obstruction rocks. Used the leaf rake to dethatch some dead grass areas.

Later half of month cooler temps almost Fall like.

*September*​
Hot 97F with higher humidity. Lowered HOC to 3.25" due to high rain chance later in the week from hurricane Dorian.

Noticed young poa trivialis coming up. Sprayed glyphosate 50.2% concentrate mixed @ 3 tbs/1 gl on all young poa trivialis weeds in the spring kill poa t dead patch areas.

Grass grew to ~6", raised HOC to 4".

Some young poa trivialis I sprayed about two weeks ago either I missed or didn't die. Sprayed again glyphosate 50.2% concentrate mix @ 3 oz/gl on all young poa trivialis weeds in the spring kill poa t dead patch areas.

Lowered HOC to 3.50". Several days of recent and forcasted warm air temperatures and no rainfall, hooked up Orbital water timers and sprinklers, set watering schedule to damp irrigate at three different times during the day.

Grass height 5+", mulch mowed lower @ HOC 3". I only overseeded the back and side yards, I'll overseed the front next spring. Overseed - 40# Scotts coated TTTF Southern Gold, 6# Scotts coated TTTF/CRF Dense Shade, 3# DLF Pickseed coated KY-31, 2# Scotts coated PRG, and 1.5# Outsidepride coated White Clover. The back and side yards receive the most shade during day that's why I put down the creeping red fescue mix. The whole lawn I put down 80# alfalfa pellets and 28# Scotts Foundation Soil Improver.

48 hours post seed down white clover germination and emergence.

4 days post seed down grass germination and emergence.

*October*​
99.5F record high temperatures first few days of month, last significant rainfall >0.50" was on Aug 2.

Cooler seasonal temps arriving. Planted Southern Wax Myrtle trees to make a hedge row. Adjusted watering timers from daily 3 cycles 5 minutes to daily 2 cycles 8 minutes.

Hand-pulled various weeds. Poa trivialis coming up in random areas, obviously didn't kill enough this spring.

Mulch mowed whole yard grass & leaves using gas push mower with sharp blade, set deck to highest setting HOC 3.50". Sprayed N-Ext RGS & Air-8 "Compaction Cure" app. on front yard. Put down 25# Carbon X on whole yard.

Received very much welcomed steady rain.

New grass 3"+ and mature grass 7"+ height. Ground has seasonal dampness; pulled up water timers, hoses, and sprinklers. Mulch mowed grass & leaves with sharp blade and lowered HOC to 3.25". Sprayed N-Ext RGS & Air-8 "Compaction Cure" app. on back and side yards. Good steady rain forecasted tomorrow and later in the week.

Overseeded the last of my 10+ month old grass seed supply TF/TTTF/PRG on the whole yard. Soil temps on average will still be in the 50sF by end of next month. If the seed don't take, no biggie, it will be considered an organic material amendment.

*November*​
Hand-pulled various weeds. Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.25".

Hand scattered ~100 each "Pink Swamp" butterfly milkweed seeds over three different garden areas. Put down ~.75#N/M Scotts fertilizer ~70% fast release nitrogen. Sprayed N-Ext RGS & Air-8 "Compaction Cure" app. over whole yard. That's the last of the lawn maintenance applications for the year.

*December*​
Hand-pulled various weeds. Mulch mowed leaves.


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## Powhatan

@Green I noticed this clump with what appears to have a prominent mid-vein with two parallel veins and a boat tip. I wonder if this is some TBG characteristic HBG we discussed last month. It's even got some new growth coming out of the collar.

Mid-vein with two dark parallel lines (veins). 


Underside with mid-vein and what appears to be two dark parallel veins.


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## Green

@Powhatan, I saw Bluegrass that looked like that a few months ago in my back lawn, and I honestly don't know why it looks like that. I had not planted HBG there. I wanted to photograph it but didn't ever get to. Glad you did.

I suppose it could be HBG or TBG. But could it also be a reaction to the cold or something else? Its weird... it almost looks like a cross between KBG and Tall Fescue, which I think is technically impossible. I would cut it out, pot it indoors and try to grow it. And then maybe submit it to an expert or turfgrass breeder. That's what I would do if it were me. Or at least submit the photos.

Speaking of crosses, a TF/PR cross is possible. They're doing it for forage already, and call it rye-fescue. I hope they start doing it for turf soon, too. That will be cool.

I've also seen some other cool stuff, like Tall Fescue that had alternating green and white veins. I think that must have been due to Tenacity a couple of months prior. But it's still not the typical reaction...usually the whole cross section whites if it's going to...and much sooner.

Also watch that KY-31 plant for rhizomes in the Spring. It looks like it's going to start spreading a bit due to how the deer trimmed it. I think leaving the lower leaves longer and cutting the upper ones encourages spreading in Tall Fescues.

48 degree soil means you're definitely going to still have sporadic growth until the ground cools a bit more. We are at 40 and lower 40s here, and it basically doesn't grow at all. Maybe a little on a warm sunny day after rain, but that's about it. It still spreads underground a little, though. We are soon to get colder...tomorrow.


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## Powhatan

Air temp 22F, wind chill 10F, ground surface is frozen. Not much happening with the lawn today.


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## Powhatan

No wind, good day to fell this dead oak tree. I'll put a cable high up attached to a come along to pull down combined with a hinge cut at the tree base, so hopefully the tree falls away from house. Neighbors will cut the trunk into fireplace length logs for their use.


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## Powhatan

Felled exactly where wanted it to go. :beer:


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## Powhatan

I plan to put down a winter dormant overseed later this month. I may not need a higher KY-31/TTTF mix overseed 8-10#/M rate, maybe lower 6-8#/M. Just split the difference and do 8#/M.


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## Powhatan

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7188


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## Powhatan

Past few days been warm, so decided to send in a soil sample for testing. Soil temp 52F @ 2" depth. I took 2" depth cores from 10 random areas all around yard to make a composite submission sample. Last sample I submitted was back in 2017 which was the first year establishing the lawn.

The actual 52F soil temp was lower than the current GreenCast reading, but very close to the 24-hour average temp. In about three weeks I'll probably need to put down PreM. The Forsythia bloomed in my area at the end of February according to my 2018 notes. March typically will have one or two cold snaps before the April green-up.

Most of the soil sample areas look like this.



Box mailed to Virginia Tech soil lab. Paid for routine and organic matter tests.


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## Powhatan

Soil temp 45F @ 2" depth. I'll be overseeding the yard probably within the week or so. Air temps will be in 50s/30s with mixed days of sun and chance of light rain/snow showers.

Cherry Blossoms making appearance. Past few days been in the 70s.


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## Powhatan

Late winter dormant overseed whole yard 8#/M - 75# DLF Pickseed KY-31 coated, 10# Scotts Southern Gold TTTF coated, and 10# Southern Belle TTTF. Pushed the seed into the ground using the riding mower's tires while broadcasting the seed. I kept a little of each seed type just in case I missed an area when seed starts germinating. Forecasted air temp 50s/30s with light rain/snow showers for the next ten days. Last year's germination occured on Mar 1.

3rd year overseeding in late winter. My property is surrounded by trees and in early spring there are less leaves and this allows maximum sunlight down to the entire lawn throughout the day. I don't irrigate; the late winter snow melt and early spring rains provide the needed water.

2nd year using KY-31 as the majority lawn grass. Last year I noticed a lot of KY-31 held green growth color for longer going through summer than the other grass types I have.


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## Powhatan

The light green grass in center right is around a water well pipe head, it is orchard grass that the home builder put down. The other light green stuff random around is annual ryegrass that was a KY-31 seed bag contaminant.


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## Powhatan

The sun came out after a week of rain showers. Soil temps are still in the high 40s - 48F @ 2" depth. Weather forecast says another 10 days of 50s/30s. Probably mid-March I'll put down the 1st preM app (mesotrione). Then late April the 2nd preM app (dithiopyr).

Intresting, the GDD Tracker also shows mid-March getting to be the optimum time to put down preM. That confirms what I was guessing.



The moss is _*very*_ active.


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## Ortho-Doc

Just spent an hour reading your lawn journals. Great job. Motivated to try some KY31!


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## Powhatan

Ortho-Doc said:


> Just spent an hour reading your lawn journals. Great job. Motivated to try some KY31!


Thanks

I admit KY-31 is not for the typical residential urban lawn, but it can be a good grass alternative for those that want to have a low maintenance turf.

If you buy KY-31 from Tractor Supply, buy the DLF green bag (coated) Oregon grown, as that has a lot less weed seeds than the white bags that are non-coated. Also, I've noticed the Missouri grown in either green or white bag usually has more weed seeds than the Oregon. I know there are online vendors that sell KY-31 but I don't know if what they sell has less weed seed amounts.


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## Powhatan

Sun is out and it's feeling like an early spring day, but the soil isn't quite at the right germinating temps yet. 2" depth - 43F in the shade and 47F in the sun. We've had plenty of rain showers, the ground is slightly moist, and the grass seeds are waiting for the right temps. I've seen several Canadian geese formations flying north. Raccoon, opossum, rabbit, deer, and wild birds have been visiting the yard looking for a snack.

I raked some leaves from the nearby woods and placed around the lawn's bordering trees. It's free and natural mulch, returning nutrients that the tree grew. No need to worry about potential contaminants from store bought mulch.


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## Powhatan

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7188


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## social port

Hey @Powhatan , I'm wondering what you are planning to do with that moss. Are you going to leave it alone?


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## Powhatan

social port said:


> Hey @Powhatan , I'm wondering what you are planning to do with that moss. Are you going to leave it alone?


@social port that's a good question, a real thinker :gum:

I've been adding lime to bring up the pH and OM to loosen the soil plus to hold more nutrients, and starting this season I plan to put down humic/carbon. I've trimmed up the bordering trees as much as I can, but I really don't want to cut any down unless they are dying.

Most of the moss right now is growing near the house where there's usually some kinda shade. For the short term, I do have a bag or two of Scotts Moss Control I can put down. For the long term, I plan to put down Radar Chewings Fine Fescue around the shadier sides of house and yard. The "shadier" is a moving target throughout the year: different sun angles, tree leaves, and house blocking. But mostly the shadier areas are N, NE, and E sides of house. If the FF doesn't work, I'll probably have to put down some type edging such as gravel.


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## social port

I have some moss to deal with as well. I don't think that mine is from pH. Tennessee had the wettest winter since, I believe, 1988. That, combined with shade around the foundation of my house, has generated a lot of moss. That Scott's moss control might actually be the sensible response for my situation, so thanks for the idea.

I suppose that complications from shade is one drawback from having a property such as yours. I always feel like I've been in some kind of nature spa when I look at your pictures. Probably lowers my blood pressure, too.


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## Powhatan

Watching for the forecasted 70F warm-up today. Soil temps currently still in the 40s.

Edit: mid-afternoon air temp climbed to 63F and soil temp 53F.


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## Powhatan

Received soil sample test results from Va Tech lab - pH 6.6, CEC 8.5, and OM 3.1%. P, Ca, and Mg at high amounts so no need to apply more, need nitrogen and K.

I'm guessing with higher CEC and OM numbers my soil is holding on to nutrients longer than I thought a sandy loam soil tendency to leach quicker.

2019 results:

I had only applied about 75#/M of the 100#/M lime recommendation, so not sure why Ca and Mg are so high. Could be the various other lawn product's "filler" material. And the high P amount, I thought I was conservative applying that.



2017 results:


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## Powhatan

Starting to see some germination. Soil temp 59F @ 2" depth.


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## Powhatan

Grass is loving the warmer weather. Haven't noticed widespread seed germination yet. Once that happens, it will probably be late April before the first mow. I'll have to cut the grass high tops using either the hedge shears or Stihl trimmer.


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## Powhatan

Freezing fog this morning.


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## Powhatan

Here the grass seedlings come. :yahoo: Air temps been 60s/30s and soil temps in the mid 50s.


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## Chris LI

Grow baby, grow!


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## Powhatan

Chris LI said:


> Grow baby, grow!


Last year I noticed wide germination on Mar 1 and this year Mar 22. Mother nature has her own timetable. :wink:


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## Powhatan

Riding mower tune-up maintenance day. Inspected rider, mower deck, and belts. Changed spark plugs, oil and filter, air and gas filters. Removed a small layer of dried grass under mower deck. Greased fittings and removed mulch blades to have the local John Deere sharpen them.

The native plant roots I planted last fall are starting to sprout.


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## Powhatan

Sunny and air temp 61F. Sprayed several orchard grass clumps with *EcoLogic Weed & Grass Killer*. Label says best to spray when sunny and above 60F. The orchard grass may not be 100% actively growing right now, but they have been growing faster than the surrounding lawn turf grass. We'll see what the target clumps look like in 24 hours.

Here's one of the larger orchard grass clumps before I sprayed it.



Edit: Over 24 hours later.

Looks like the big clump is dying, might need another shot.



Edit: 72 hours later and most target clumps look like they're going.


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## Powhatan

Sprayed a 2nd *EcoLogic Weed & Grass Killer* application on the larger orchard grass clumps for good measure. The centers are dying, but outer blades are still green. Then I sprayed several smaller clumps that I didn't spray earlier in the week.

While spraying, I noticed more poa annua all over the lawn. Seems there's been more poa annua this year than last even though I put down a fall Dimension (dithiopyr) preM in Nov, maybe I didn't put down enough.


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## Powhatan

24+ hours later after the 2nd grass and weed killer app ... the big orchard grass clump is finally going.



Not to be misidentified as tall fescue, orchard grass, or crabgrass. It's early spring and this foxtail weed is showing it's seed heads now.


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## Powhatan

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7188


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## Powhatan

*To help minimize poa trivialis from spreading - DO NOT mechanical aerate!*​
The below picture is from spring 2018; I didn't realize what they were then, now I have several of these clumps. They are growing faster than the surrounding good grass and their canopy blades are starting to cover the desirable grass. I'm going to spray these with EcoLogic Weed & Grass Killer to hopefully start knocking them down. It'll be a multi-year battle I'm sure. :fight:


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## social port

These grassy weed id's are so tough. I would have never tagged that as triv.
I had a good experience with that EcoLogic last year. I tried it after reading a journal entry of yours.


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## Powhatan

No *EcoLogic Weed & Grass Killer* product is available in my local area and not available for ship to store order. Very strange.

*Dr. Earth Final Stop Weed & Grass Killer* has the same ingredients as the EcoLogic product, is available so I'll try that.


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## Powhatan

*Dr. Earth Final Stop Weed & Grass Killer* first application. The poa triv will probably will need a 2nd and possibly 3rd application. The real test will be after the foliage dies, if the roots are dead as well.

Poa triv clumps lit up.



Poa annua dying.


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## Powhatan

Sprayed a 2nd round of Dr. Earth Final Stop on the poa triv clumps. I'm spraying the clumps closest around the house working outwards. On the ones I previous sprayed now that they are lit up, the 2nd round I'm spraying further around the permitter of the clump working back to the center to get maximum coverage.


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## Green

Looks like bluegrass in the very front of that last photo.

You have not mowed just yet, right?


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Looks like bluegrass in the very front of that last photo.
> 
> You have not mowed just yet, right?


The small stuff could be some HBG, it's mixed all over.

No, haven't mowed yet. I've been using the hedge shears to trim the high tops around the permitter of the house.

Got new grass coming up all over and I'm waiting for those to get higher before mowing. Waiting on the young ones is giving me time to kill the poa triv. After the mow I plan to put down Andersons humic DG and the 2nd preM using LESCO 19-0-7 Dimension Crabgrass Preventer Fert.


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## Powhatan

Put up a *Flies Be Gone* trap in the front yard - works great :thumbup:

I haven't mowed yet. The mature clumps are a lot greener now and starting to fill out, the turf is coming up slow and steady. I'll give it fertilizer probably late in the month.

Sprayed 1st round of *Roundup Weed & Grass Killer* (glyphosate) on several poa triv and poa annua clumps. The Dr. Earth product I've been using appears to be working killing the poa triv but seems needs over 2 applications on medium to large clumps. I'm trying Roundup to see if it will take less applications for a kill - save some $.

Going over my lawn notes & pictures, the poa triv clumps first appeared Oct 2017. At the time I didn't know what they were. The house was built in 2016. I've noticed a majority of triv clumps are in areas were the ground was dug up to put down utilities: power transformer in front yard and leach field distribution piping in back yard. To make matters worse, when I used the mechanical aerator I probably distributed the plant parts all over the yard.

Here are some larger poa triv clumps after being sprayed previously twice with Dr. Earth. They are mostly dead, but still have some green blades, so I'm kicking harder with Roundup.



Some poa triv clumps appear to be thinning out or laying down. I'll try to spray most of them before they go dormant for the summer. :fight:


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## Powhatan

Planted encore azaleas.


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## 440mag

Powhatan, fantastic journal!

I'll try and follow as I seem to be "blessed" with orchard grass and my usual practice of "solving" many (most) pest problems "with my credit card" doesn't look like it'll be a main option in this instance - definitely interested in and curious about both the EcoLogic and Dr.Earth options!

Hope your weekend activities go well!


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## Powhatan

Thanks 440mag.

Seems the larger orchard grass clumps need about 2 to 3 hits of spray for a kill. I also find it easy to pull them up when the soil is moist.


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## Powhatan

Looks like most, if not all, what I've been identifying as poa trivialis clumps may be junglerice clumps.

*Edit: Va Tech plant ID confirmed it's poa trivialis not junglerice.*

Tenacity + Quinclorac are the recommended AI to kill the junglerice. I don't have a spray tank system so I'll be using a ready to spray (RTS) product with quinclorac to hopefully kill the many junglerice clumps. Thanks Jconnelly6b


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## social port

@Powhatan FYI: I made a quick trip to my local Lowes the other day. I looked for the Eco-logic spray. Lowes did have some in stock, but only a few bottles, and they were labeled as a clearance item. My guess is that the bottles were leftovers from last year.
I didn't see an alternative product like Dr. Earth.


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## Powhatan

@social port I haven't seen the EcoLogic spray or Dr. Earth at Lowes either. I've been buying Dr. Earth from HomeDepot; I noticed they haven't restocked their inventory yet.

EcoSMART Organic Weed & Grass Killer and Bayer Advanced NATRIA Grass & Weed Killer are some other organic grass & weed killers. Their ingredients aren't similar to EcoLogic or Dr. Earth. I spot checked inventory on some online vendors, none in stock. Again, very curious.


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## Powhatan

Here's that tall fescue clump growing in the non-fertilized gravel road ditch area that I took a picture of in mid-Feb. I haven't cut it yet, it's getting to be over a foot tall (no super juice). Looks like seed head stems growing on the left clump.


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## Powhatan

Sprayed *Roundup for Northern Lawns Ready-To-Spray* (includes quinclorac) all over yard to kill the junglerice clumps and any other weeds. Hopefully within a week the weeds will be dead or dying.

*Edit: Va Tech plant ID confirmed it's poa trivialis not junglerice.*


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## Powhatan

This isn't the snake I mentioned earlier, this one is bigger. I took the picture after throwing this snake out of the garage. He looks pissed.


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## Powhatan

Trimmed the grass high tops from around the house using the hedge shears. Cut the gravel road ditch weeds using the double edge weed cutter.

It's been two days since spraying the junglerice weeds and others. Nothing spectacular happing yet as expected, but overall the target weeds kinda appear like they are starting to loose their vigor. I did a double spray on junglerice weeds - fingers crossed.


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## Powhatan

Wow, native plant youngster going to town showing a bloom. All the native plants I planted are suppose to be deer resistant, hope that holds true.



Noticed another junglerice weed with seed heads. Ironically, this clump is located in the same area as the previous one I pulled. These clumps with the seed heads don't have many blades. I wonder if this weed for lack of the correct technical term, has co-species, something like male & female, the larger clumps male and smaller with seeds the female. I'm probably wrong, just a curious guess.

In the below picture I see four junglerice clumps, a bigger one to the right, in the middle is a smaller one with the seed heads, and right below that are two small ones. The RTS product I sprayed is having a noticeable effect starting to turn the stems/blades light and yellow. The poa annua clumps in the bottom are turning yellow. The brown spots are where I previously sprayed either Dr. Earth or glyphosate.

*Edit: Va Tech plant ID confirmed it's poa trivialis not junglerice.*


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## Powhatan

Speaking of seed heads, the KY-31 are starting to produce.


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## Powhatan

First mulch mow of the season, set HOC to 4". Put down *Andersons Humic DG* (thanks Doc), *LESCO 19-0-7 Dimension Crabgrass Preventer Fertilizer*, and *EcoLogic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer* (ticks are active now). All mixed 102 lb total and broadcasted @ 8#/M.


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## mowww

Looking good! When you mixed all products together did you have any trouble with some settling down and others coming to the top of the spreader?


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## Green

@Powhatan, any ideas for telling apart Triv and jungle rice that doesn't yet have seedheads? I think I have some of both, and it makes no sense to use glyphosate on the jungle rice if Quinclorac will kill it without damaging the good grass. But it's so hard to tell apart from Triv at this point.

PS: https://www.google.com/amp/s/drhealthbenefits.com/food-bevarages/staple-food/health-benefits-jungle-rice/amp
Wow


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## Powhatan

mowww said:


> Looking good! When you mixed all products together did you have any trouble with some settling down and others coming to the top of the spreader?


Thanks @mowww

No problem spreading out the mix. The products I used for this application all had somewhat similar size prills. The EcoLogic one did have smaller with the larger prills, but the whole mix seemed to feed out the hopper gate evenly.

With that JD tow spreader there's usually a small amount of product left at the bottom that doesn't drop out so I have to manually spread by hand the last of it.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Powhatan, any ideas for telling apart Triv and jungle rice that doesn't yet have seedheads? I think I have some of both, and it makes no sense to use glyphosate on the jungle rice if Quinclorac will kill it without damaging the good grass. But it's so hard to tell apart from Triv at this point.
> 
> PS: https://www.google.com/amp/s/drhealthbenefits.com/food-bevarages/staple-food/health-benefits-jungle-rice/amp
> Wow


@ green

*Edit: Va Tech plant ID confirmed it's poa trivialis not junglerice.*

I think the biggest visual difference is the maroon colored sections on the stem in between the collars.

That RTS product I sprayed had 1.80% quinclorac. I may need to spray again with a higher concentrate if I can find another RTS product. It's been almost a week since I sprayed and the junglerice clumps seem to be hanging on with some green, maybe I need to wait longer before trying another product.


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## Green

Did it have those maroon colored stems from the beginning, or did that come after it had been growing a while? I know I've seen that before.


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## Powhatan

@Green

This picture taken Mar 2018. At the time I started seeing these last year, I had no idea what these might be, but since they looked odd I suspected they were some type of undesirable grass/weed so I started taking pictures to document.

*Edit: Va Tech plant ID confirmed it's poa trivialis not junglerice.*

The large junglerice clump in the middle I would characterize in it's pre-teen stage. The maroon color collar areas are fairly close to each other and towards the bottom of the stems. This characteristic is what made me think when I started seeing these again in 2019, that the clumps were poa trivialis, not knowing they are actually junglerice. My lawn may have some poa t, but I believe it's probably all junglerice weeds that I'm seeing.

In the picture: In top left it looks like there are two junglerice rhizome/tillers surfacing. In the bottom right I believe those are two small junglerice clumps, but don't really see maroon, so not sure.


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## Powhatan

Looks like the HBG is sprouting seed heads.



This larger junglerice clump has a seed head. The clump has a tint yellow to it. I hope it's the RTS product I sprayed almost a week ago having an effect and killing it.

*Edit: Va Tech plant ID confirmed it's poa trivialis not junglerice.*


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## Green

Ok. I'll get out there and try to ID them!


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## Powhatan

Due to recent discussions, I'm going back to calling the weed clumps I'm killing to poa trivialis instead of junglerice.

*Edit: Va Tech plant ID confirmed it's poa trivialis not junglerice.*

Here's the area that has the bulk of poa trivialis. I've been spraying using either Dr. Earth Final Stop or Roundup (glyphosate) non-selective herbicides in 1 gallon RTU (ready-to-use) to kill the clumps going from outside permitter to inside. Some of the brown killed areas are starting to show some minor green growth in the center area so I spot sprayed those again. Dr. Earth is a little cheaper than Roundup, but seems to take at least 2 applications to kill a medium to large weed/grass clump.


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## social port

That's a very pleasing color, @Powhatan . I'm just imagining how this is going to look once that alien grass finally decides to leave your property.


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## Powhatan

@social port it does look pleasing. The Southern Belle TTTF blend and HBG holds the majority darker color. I've noticed the KY-31 typically looks darker in the spring then goes lighter during the summer. There's probably a foliar biological process term for the seasonal color change, but that escapes me right now, something to do with the amount of chlorophyll. :mrgreen:


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## Powhatan

Planted three Iris Matinata bulbs in the same bed that I planted the encore azaleas. Should be some nice color variety if all stays alive.

Sprayed *Dr. Earth Final Stop* on several poa trivialis clumps that I haven't sprayed before. Since I've mowed, the poa triv clumps don't readily stand out, I mainly look for the maroon stems to find them. But, I did notice several clumps starting to mat down, such as in the below picture. Don't know if that's due to the Roundup RTS I sprayed about two weeks ago having some effect or air temps getting higher causing them to start going dormant. Or maybe they are starting to give up cause they know the killer spray is coming for them. :spiteful:



Used my new *Fiskars 4-Claw Weeder* to pull up several orchard grass clumps. A good weeder tool, but it also pulls up a lot of earth, so have to back fill the small holes it's creating.



Put down two bags of *Scotts LawnSoil* to raise some low spots. I didn't see any foreign objects included in the bags. The soil was nice earthy dark.


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## Powhatan

Such a nice spring day, let's take a look at the back woods and lake.


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> Since I've mowed, the poa triv clumps don't readily stand out, I mainly look for the maroon stems to find them.


Yeah, I put off mowing the areas with the Triv and/or red-stemmed Poa species because of this. I have this theory it'll be easier to kill before mowing. Grass is starting to get high, though. Hopefully I can do some spraying tomorrow evening and mow the next day or something.

Btw, I noticed the red-stemmed Poa species has somewhat dark colored leaves.


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## ChadStokes

I'm dealing with this crap too.. ordered my bewitched kbg from Seedsuperstore last summer....looks like what hit you too.


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## pennstater2005

Beautiful property @Powhatan.


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## g-man

@ChadStokes that looks like clasping auricles. It looks more like annual ryegrass. Check the leaf tip.


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## Powhatan

ChadStokes said:


> I'm dealing with this crap too.. ordered my bewitched kbg from Seedsuperstore last summer....looks like what hit you too.


@ChadStokes good news for you, that one has clasping auricles, suspect it's annual ryegrass. The summer heat will kill it.


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## Powhatan

Thanks @pennstater2005. Like they say, lawn care is a marathon, not a sprint.


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## Powhatan

The KY-31 growing in the road ditch is turning into a monster size without any human applied inputs.


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## social port

Hey @Powhatan, do I remember you using KY31 from TSC?

The reason I am asking is that I am looking to recommend KY31 as a low-input option to a friend. And I suspect that there are strains of KY31, with some being better than others. You seem to have a nice variety.


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## Powhatan

@social port TSC is correct. I get DLF Pickseed coated green bag OR grown. That one has a lot less weed seeds than the white bag non-coated OR or MO grown.

I sent an email to DLF about a year ago asking for details about the KY-31 seed but never received a reply.


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## social port

Thanks @Powhatan; that is a good tip, and I will pass it along.


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## OnTheOxbow

Hey @Powhatan I'm trying to put together a group buy on a pallet of carbon x fertilizer. It's 40 bags. We should be able to get it for less than half the retail price. I'm not gaining much traction with other rva memebrs. They suggested asking you. Just throwing out the offer.


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## Powhatan

@OnTheOxbow thanks for the offer. Currently I foresee using a maximum of 2 bags per season (1/2 bag per app), that low amount probably wouldn't help offset a group buy.


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## Powhatan

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7188


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## Powhatan

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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed at HOC 3.75". Trimmed the grass around the house and the weeds in the road ditch using a string trimmer.

A young fawn came running through the woods that probably lost momma.


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## Powhatan

Front yard coming along very well.


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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed, lowered HOC to 3.5". Put down *Carbon X* 25#, *Scotts GrubEX* (chlorantraniliprole) 1x10M, and *EcoLogic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer* 30#. All mixed 83# and applied @ 6.5#/M.

I purchased non-selective herbicide *Mirimichi Green Weed Control Concentrate* and a 3 gallon hand-pump spray tank. I plan to use a higher 15% mix rate to continue killing the poa trivialis clumps. I hope using a concentrate will be cheaper in the long run than continually buying 1 gallon Dr. Earth or Roundup (glyphosate) RTU jugs.


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## g-man

@Powhatan I don't think the mirimichi product is a good one for POA t. It is ammonium nonanoate. It will give you a quick burn of the leaves, but not of the roots. Round up will be a better option.


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## Powhatan

g-man said:


> I don't think the mirimichi product is a good one for POA t. It is ammonium nonanoate. It will give you a quick burn of the leaves, but not of the roots. Round up will be a better option.


@g-man thanks for heads up.

Is this the product Roundup Weed & Grass Killer Super Concentrate that I need to mix with?


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## g-man

That works. There are cheaper versions. Look for glyphosate in it and only glyphosate.


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## Powhatan

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## Powhatan

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## Powhatan

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## Green

Powhatan said:


> The hanging things appear to be the pollinator anthers and filaments.


Aka. flowers.

I had some grass that I let seed for a few months in the past, and I saved the seed. I'd love to test it out. I even saved some Triv seed.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Aka. flowers.


Oh, that's what those pollen articles meant when they said grass flowers. Thanks for the hint. :thumbsup:


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## Powhatan

Looks like I'm loosing my window this spring to glyphosate the poa trivialis. The air temps are warming up (90s next week) and I'm seeing what looks like thinning dying areas. May be kinda hard to see in the below picture, the middle area that looks like a horse shoe is the dying area. I do have some PRG, so it might be that, more than likely it's the poa trivialis going dormant for the summer.

I don't plan on putting down fungicides, that will be a waste trying to "save" dormant poa trivialis. Besides, any fungus may actually put a good hurt on the triv.


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## Powhatan

Fowler's toad - They eat bugs & insects in the lawn & garden.

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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.5". I think the Carbon X iron gave it some darker green.

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## social port

Oh, I see that darker green. No doubt about it. It looks phenomenal.


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## Green

Yeah, that PR will be fine with a few days in the 90s as long as there's enough rain. Using disease to kill Triv is smart. Dollar Spot is a big one for that.


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## Powhatan

social port said:


> Oh, I see that darker green. No doubt about it. It looks phenomenal.


Thanks. I'm enjoying the nice color. Won't be long before the heat comes on.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Using disease to kill Triv is smart. Dollar Spot is a big one for that.


I've seen it mentioned in some edu documents and YouTube vids saying that poa trivialis is susceptible to some turf diseases. Gotta attack triv at different angles. With all the dead spots I've created in the back yard I have to overseed this fall any way.


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## Powhatan

Spot sprayed *Mirimichi Green Weed Control Concentrate* @ 13% mix rate on several gravel driveway weeds and unwanted grass clumps.

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## Powhatan

The Mirimichi Green Weed Control Concentrate did a good job of killing the orchard grass. There's some spots I missed that I'll spray later.

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## Powhatan

I noticed an area in the front yard that the house blocks the morning sun. Looks like helminthosporium disease is active again. We've had recent higher temps and humidity. Next time I mow I'll lower HOC to 3.25" to increase air flow.

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## social port

Great picture, @Powhatan. About half of the pictures in your thread look like they also belong in the cool pictures thread.


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## Powhatan

Mulched mowed, lowered HOC to 3.25" for more air flow. That will probably be my summer cut height. The majority poa trivialis is located in the back and side yards, so if those areas get fungal infections I'm not going to worry about it. I need to fall overseed in those areas any way.


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## Powhatan

Summer is coming on :gum:

Put down more topsoil in low spots. Put down mulch in native plant beds.


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## Powhatan

Local Weather Undreground station reported 93F for high today, didn't beat the 97F record. But, the 103F heat index sure made if feel hot.

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## Powhatan

Mid to upper 90sF forecasted this week. Grass blades have some curl. Very small noticeable helminthosporium disease random throughout the lawn with some minor rust disease on the lawn edges. Grass needs another cut, but since it's stressed right now, I'll wait till after receiving some rain that's forecasted later in the week.

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## Powhatan

The day old Iris bloom did not like today's 97F heat. I hope it comes back.

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## Green

Very nice photos, @Powhatan .

So, I have looked through my grass several times and tried to figure out which Bluegrass blades are the HBG, but so far I'm not sure. Any tips on identifying it? I have KBG as well, and have no idea which is which...it all looks the same.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Very nice photos
> 
> So, I have looked through my grass several times and tried to figure out which Bluegrass blades are the HBG, but so far I'm not sure. Any tips on identifying it? I have KBG as well, and have no idea which is which...it all looks the same.


Thanks @Green

The HBG Fahreheit 90 and SPF 30 cultivars sowed in fall 2017 I understand to look very much like KBG, but I can't find any official ID pictures to compare with. I see dark green obvious looking KBG characteristic grass and I also see lighter green KBG/PRG characteristic grass, as well as the obvious TF/TTTF. I pull on the lighter green thinking it might be poa trivialis; it's rooted very firm and hard to pull up. Being currently hot and dry the triv is supposed to be dormant now, so I believe the lighter green I'm seeing are either HBG or PRG. I did sow some PRG last fall and the year before that, so some of that is probably still in the lawn. Paul's Prime Cuts showed a lawn with light green HBG with no mention what cultivar it was.

Edit: I spot checked some of the lighter green grass and it appears to be PRG confirming against ID pics/characteristics.


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## Powhatan

Finally received some rain last night. Grass was dry enough by noon to mulch mow @ 3.25".

I was curious, so I moved away the dead poa trivialis blades and stems. Look what's still green laying and waiting to spring back up. I guess I need to rake these dead areas and expose the still live roots to sun UV to dry them out. I used a combination of RU glyphosate and Dr. Earth Final Stop to "kill" them several weeks ago.


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## Powhatan

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7188


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## Powhatan

Added border gravel and more mulch.

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## Powhatan

Several weeks ago I sprayed glyphosate and Dr. Earth Final Stop on several mystery plant stems/clumps to try and kill them. In some of the dead clump areas I'm noticing green roundish bumpy roots. I suspect these roots are still alive.

*Edit: Va Tech plant ID confirmed it's poa trivialis.*

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## Budstl

Give this a try.
https://weedid.missouri.edu/weedKey.cfm


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## Powhatan

Budstl said:


> Give this a try.
> https://weedid.missouri.edu/weedKey.cfm


Thanks for the link.

I says its Kentucky Bluegrass from the selections I entered - can't be right.

But … there's no selection for that distinctive round bumpy root system. Wish I knew the correct horticulture term to describe this root structure I'm seeing.


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## Budstl

@Powhatan looks like a rattle snake. I wonder if it could be considered bulbs. It's quite interesting.


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## Powhatan

I spoke to my local extension office about plant ID. They said to bring in the sample to their office and if they can't ID it they will send it to the Va Tech lab, no cost.


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## Green

@Powhatan, that certainly looks like it could be either Triv or the Hybrid Bluegrass.

You don't have any KBG, right? If you did, I'd add that as a third possibility.

I wonder if the stuff you sprayed (glyphosate or the natural products) could have done something to the roots to make them look like that...

You could very well have a somewhat roundup resistant grass on your hands...


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> that certainly looks like it could be either Triv or the Hybrid Bluegrass.
> 
> You don't have any KBG, right? If you did, I'd add that as a third possibility.
> 
> I wonder if the stuff you sprayed (glyphosate or the natural products) could have done something to the roots to make them look like that...
> 
> You could very well have a somewhat roundup resistant grass on your hands...


@Green, no KBG put down unless a seed bag was contaminated. Fall 2017 was the only time I put down HBG.

Yes, the roots sure do look very strange. I wonder if they are proxy seeds if the stem is detached. I thought of planting a few to see what happens.

I may not have sprayed enough for these that have the green roots. I have other clumps that most, if not all, of their roots are total brown, hopefully dead.

Sure will be interesting to see what appears this fall and especially next spring. I was hoping to kill a majority of these plants this spring.


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## Green

@Powhatan, you know what else? Those don't look like just any roots either, but rhizomes specifically. But why did they get lumpy? That is the question. Environmental conditions? Soil conditions? Herbicides? Disease? Pest invasion? I would take the questioning for your extension scientists along that direction.


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## Powhatan

Update on the monster KY-31. The recent higher temperatures and dryness have caused the blades to curl and thin, making the seed head stalks really stand out. Some of the blades are drying out and some have a few leaf spot disease lesions. But overall, the plant appears healthy otherwise considering no supplemental fertilization has been applied.

Seeds are turning brown. I understand the seeds can be harvested when the head turns yellow/brown, typically 20 to 30 days from when the seed head flowered.

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## Powhatan

Dropped off several mystery plant samples at my local extension office. I also gave them pictures of the mystery plant when it was larger in early spring.


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## Powhatan

This helminthosporium fungal diseased area is very noticeable as of yesterday afternoon. This is the most concentration of a fungal area I've noticed so far this year. It's located in the front yard in an area that receives late afternoon and early evening sun with some house & tree shading throughout the day. Our precipitation amounts have recently increased, with higher chance of an afternoon thundershower, thus the humidity levels are staying elevated.

The disease appears to be mostly leaf spot and what appears to be rust pustules. Some of the wider blades TF/TTTF are diseased but the majority are smaller blades, either HBG or PRG. I see glossy underside blades so I'm thinking that is PRG.

I wasn't going to apply any fungicides this year, but if this diseased spot starts getting larger, I'll start spraying organic *Garden Safe Brand Fungicide3* (R-T-S) in this area.

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## Green

@Powhatan , there are definitely some PR and/or TTTF blades infected/effected/affected. Sometimes it's hard to tell PR from TTTF in photos when the backside is showing.


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## Powhatan

I believe the mystery plant is looking more like a typical turf poa trivialis plant.

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## social port

Nice work, @Powhatan. Amazing shots.


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## Powhatan

Thanks @Green and @social port for visiting and providing feedback. Appreciate it. Ya'll get :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Powhatan

Nothing back yet from Va Tech about the mystery plant ID sample I submitted.

Past week or so, we've had almost daily afternoon & evening thundershowers. Luckily the fungal presence seems to be staying minimal on random blades/stems with mainly helminthosporium disease and some what looks like brown patch lesions.

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## Powhatan

Yesterday the sun came out and by late afternoon the grass was dry enough for a cut, mulch mowed @ HOC 3.25".


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## Powhatan

The gravel road ditch's monster KY-31 cousin. It's been growing in the side yard. It's had the benefit of receiving some fertilizer and humic acid when the rest of the lawn got it. It appears to be a little grass blade fuller than it's cousin thats been growing in the gravel road ditch without fertilizer, both have similar overall health and size appearance.

Practically all it's seeds are brown, just need the top portion of the stems to turn brown and dry so the seeds pull away easily for harvesting. Don't know if the seeds will be viable; it will be interesting to find out.

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## Powhatan

I noticed today in the middle of some of the dead areas that I had previously sprayed the mystery plant, there are now what appears to be tall fescue looking plants growing.

I moved the soil away from one of the them. Kinda looks like white rhizomes? I did put down Southern Belle TTTF in 2017 and 2018 that included lateral spread (LS) cultivars. I wonder if that is what these are. If so, they are strong spreaders.

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## Green

@Powhatan, interesting updates. I'm as curious as you are.

I have a question about the KY-31. What brand was it that you like? Because I can get standard uncoated seed apparently from Barenbrug through True Value (is that the Missouri seed?). And via HD there's DLF seed, which is coated but if you assume 50% weight for the coating (?), it ends up costing more than double. I also assume the coating is similar to the one Scotts uses and helps retain water if you can't water often (which I wouldn't be able to do). But given how rugged KY-31 is, does the coating really make a difference? It appears the Scott's Tall Fescue/HBG mix I planted in the corner of my grandfather's yard last year is now dead, already. It looked ok 2 weeks ago. I think it's a lot of asphalt under the ground there being a corner, but I bet the KY-31 would make it.


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## Powhatan

@Green, I'm using DLF Pickseed KY-31 purchased from TSC. Yep, there's less seed in the coated bag, but I noticed that the coated version has a lot less weed seeds than the non-coated. In addition, the MO grown coated or un-coated had more weed seeds than the OR grown. This year's offerings may be different.

The DLF seed bag doesn't say the purpose of the coating, but I presume similar to Scotts for water absorption and some fertilizer. I rely (hope) on rain water to keep the seeds/soil moist for germination. Sometimes I hand spray the whole yard with a single garden hose if no rain for several days, but I try to sow seeds when a week or so of rain is forecasted, and hope the seeds don't wash away.

When I've looked online to purchase KY-31, the product descriptions never say how much/type weed seeds are included. I feel more comfortable handling the seed bag and reading the label so I know what I'm getting.

Those fescues growing in the dead areas sure were a surprise to me. I'm guessing they are spreading from the surrounding live grass. I haven't put down any new seed since early spring. I can't imagine they are sprouting from the mystery plant green bumpy root things, but who knows. The several plant ID samples I gave to Va Tech were smaller in size and their roots were all attached to those round bumps.


----------



## Green

@Powhatan, thanks. Since I'd be going for cost savings above all else, I might have to go for the Barenbrug uncoated/Missouri cattle farm stuff if I do that.

I'm hoping more of those corners don't die out, but we'll see. I'm assuming the brown grass is dead. I don't think first-year grass can go dormant, but maybe some of the HBG took and will help everything to spread back later in the year.

One way to possibly tell if the Tall Fescue is from a rhizome (without digging) is to see how loose the plant is in the soil. Rhizomes don't tend to have good roots for a while. If it moves a lot, chances are good. Those do kind of look that way (versus being from seed that never germinated), and they do look like rhizomes below the stems (those thin white roots).


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## Powhatan

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## Powhatan

Started harvesting KY-31 seeds. The gravel ditch clump already has dried seed stems laying down, so took those. The upright steams aren't quite ready yet, I'm guessing another week.

I'll place gravel ditch KY-31 seeds and side yard KY-31 seeds in separate brown bags for while to let them dry further, then place the respective seeds in separate sealed sandwich bags and put them in a dry cool storage area until ready to plant them. When I plant them, I'll sow the respective seeds in separate lawn areas to see if there might be a difference in germination and/or growth.

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## Powhatan

Visited a neighbor yesterday evening and some of the ducks that frequent our lake came by for a snack. I don't know what type of ducks these are. The black male is very possessive of food and will chase away deer that get too close.



90sF temps and afternoon thundershowers forecasted all this week, time to give the lawn a cut. Still has some good green color, but definitely showing signs of stress.


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## Powhatan

No noticeable patches of active fungal disease present, just random blades have some. That may change as higher temps with elevated humidity is coming on.


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## social port

Powhatan said:


> the lawn looks decent going into summer considering I don't irrigate.


One thing that I often see in middle Tennessee: Fescue lawns with moderate shade from trees fare better during the summer -- fewer areas of discoloration from heat and drought as well as deeper color overall.


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## Powhatan

Here's a brown patch area about 1.5' across that's probably been forming for some days now.


----------



## Powhatan

The mystery plant identification report:

Plant Disease Clinic
Price Hall Room 106, 170 Drillfield Dr.
School of Plant and Environmental Sciences Virginia Tech


----------



## Green

That's a new one. Maybe a type that grows in VA? So weird.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> That's a new one. Maybe a type that grows in VA? So weird.


@Green

Good example of what you see in pictures online don't always match exactly what you find in your yard.

First year for me really knowing about this grassy weed and trying to control it. Now that I know definitively what I'm dealing with, I plan to hand pull up any grass stem/root beads I find and put them in a paper bag for several weeks to dry out before disposing of them. I'll probably be spraying glyphosate again next spring. I'm going to transplant several ferns to the back corner where I sprayed most of the poa triv clumps to hopefully outcompete any poa triv there.


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## Powhatan

The April planted Encore Azaleas producing their first buds for the summer cycle. I've been watering the mulch bed somewhat moist on non-rain days.

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## Chris LI

Green said:


> That's a new one. Maybe a type that grows in VA? So weird.


+1^ It looks alien.


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a new one. Maybe a type that grows in VA? So weird.
> 
> 
> 
> +1^ It looks alien.
Click to expand...

I think they're going to have to rename it Bumpy Bluegrass. Hope I never see this type. There's nothing online about it. It looks sick.


----------



## Powhatan

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a new one. Maybe a type that grows in VA? So weird.
> 
> 
> 
> +1^ It looks alien.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think they're going to have to rename it Bumpy Bluegrass. Hope I never see this type. There's nothing online about it. It looks sick.
Click to expand...

I suspect those stem/root beads have the capability to seed sprout, especially if some are left in the soil sub-surface after pulling the top surface plant structure up. Target plants need a well dowsed glyphosate coverage during active growth to get maximum translocation to all it's roots. Even then after foliar death, probably need to investigate the bare soil and remove any remaining beads. Which reminds me I wrote previously in my journal …

*Don't mechanical aerate with poa trivialis growing in the turf !!!​*


----------



## Chris LI

Powhatan said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> +1^ It looks alien.
> 
> 
> 
> I think they're going to have to rename it Bumpy Bluegrass. Hope I never see this type. There's nothing online about it. It looks sick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suspect those stem/root beads have the capability to seed sprout, especially if some are left in the soil sub-surface after pulling the top surface plant structure up. Target plants need a well dowsed glyphosate coverage during active growth to get maximum translocation to all it's roots. Even then after foliar death, probably need to investigate the bare soil and remove any remaining beads. Which reminds me I wrote previously in my journal …
> 
> *Don't mechanical aerate with poa trivialis growing in the turf !!!​*
Click to expand...

Unless you desire a monostand of it! :shock:

I made that mistake several years ago, and am still paying for it. He's not kidding.


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## Green

So far, no regrowth on mine. 3x glyphosate seems to have totally wiped it out. I'm going to be planting plugs in one area soon, so we'll see if anything came back when I dig.

I wonder if it looks like that because you caught it in the act of sending out new stems.


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## Powhatan

Speckled Wood Lily native plant with some type of infection. It's been that way for a couple weeks. A similar plant about a foot away is not infected.

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## Powhatan

Nice summer sunny cool day 82F with low comfortable 39% humidity, don't get that often this time of year. :gum:

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## Powhatan

Rust disease making an appearance again at a lawn edge. This area has a mix of KY-31, TTTF, HBG, and PRG. The darker wider blades are the KY-31. There are also a couple nutsedge weeds in the lower left. The rust (yellowing) is mainly in the middle and over to the right.

In this same general area there have been some rust last year and the year before. I don't bag when I mow, guess I need to start doing that, at least in this area to possibly reduce/eliminate the rust outbreaks.

I'll spray some organic Garden Safe Brand Fungicide3 on this area if the rust area gets larger. The daytime air temps are in the 90sF and thunderstorm rain is a hit or miss daily chance. The grass is slow growing right now and in no hurry for a cut.

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## social port

Powhatan said:


> The grass is slow growing right now and in no hurry for a cut.


I'm surprised to hear that. My fescue and my bluegrass haven't slowed much since the spring. They are both ready to be mowed at about 4 days, especially the bluegrass.


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## Powhatan

social port said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The grass is slow growing right now and in no hurry for a cut.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised to hear that. My fescue and my bluegrass haven't slowed much since the spring. They are both ready to be mowed at about 4 days, especially the bluegrass.
Click to expand...

Last cut was one week ago @ HOC 3.25". Today the lawn height is ~3.5". The more sunnier front yard has barely grown above ~3.25".

The closest Weather Underground station is less than 2 miles away as the crow flies, last recorded rainfall on Jun 13 received .90" precipitation. Last half of June the average daily high temps have been ~90F. Looking like a typical hot dry summer so far.

My yard's soil surface is very dry and almost feels like hard concrete now. The new house construction really messed up it's structure. This year I started applying humic and biochar, and later will start the Air-8 and RGS apps to relieve compaction.


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## Powhatan

The local weather station recorded 102F this afternoon - yikes

One of the outside AC condensers made a heck of a racket starting up, I thought it was broken. It's a dang black snake keeping cool from the heat.

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## Powhatan

This area receives the most sun. Most of the brown dormant grass will green back up when rains return.

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## Powhatan

Been hot and dry previous 3 weeks, but not bad enough for Poplar trees to stress and start dropping leaves yet. Typical summer hot temps continue into next week with a slight increased chance of isolated thundershowers.

Last grass cut was two weeks ago. In shadier parts of lawn the KY-31 grass height up to 4" - 6" while sunnier parts lawn showing no appreciable growth or in dormancy. Mulch mowed, raised HOC from 3.25" to 3.50". String trimmed cut the weeds growing the gravel road ditch area.

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## Powhatan

102F today - Take a pic before all the grass turns brown

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## Green

Powhatan said:


> 102F today - Take a pic before all the grass turns brown


So happy it was only 90 here today.


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## Powhatan

I sprayed organic fungicide on the rust disease corner yesterday morning. Don't know how quickly results should appear, but there are a lot less raised pustules this morning than before. Blades still have yellowing on them, I guess that will stay until it grows out of it.

Received much needed 0.82" of rain yesterday evening.

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## Powhatan

Put down EcoLogic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer 40#.

July 4 - Hot and dry for previous 3+ weeks.

July 5 - Received 0.82" rain the night before. Decent amount of green perked up this morning.

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## Powhatan

Received my N-Ext Compaction Cure package. I'll start spraying this Sep and Nov, then Apr and Jun. I don't want to mechanical aerate still having poa trivialis so we'll see how well the N-Ext products work. Last five days have received some daily afternoon thundershowers.

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## Powhatan

Lowered HOC from 3.50" to 3.25".

Noticed some brown patch disease spots in the side and backyard areas that receive morning and late afternoon shade. I sprayed organic Garden Safe Brand Fungicide3 (Ready-To-Spray) in those areas. That spray did a good job of removing rust disease pustules and is also labeled for brown patch.

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## Powhatan

Been receiving late afternoon thundershowers. Lawn is getting some green back. I plan to put down slow release (8.53% WIN) organic Ringer 9-0-2 fertilizer. The newer formula includes: feather meal, soybean meal, blood meal, alfalfa, molasses, and sulfate of potash.

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## Powhatan

Harvested all the seed from the gravel road KY-31 plant. From Feb starting out as a little clump, then in May when it flowered to start growing seeds. All with no supplemental fertilizer growing in natural local acidic soil.

I don't have a small scale to accurately measure but I'm sure it's less than 1/2 pound. There may have been ~5% seed left on the individual stalks as I removed them. This fall I'll plant some seeds in flower pots, along with some store bought KY-31 seed as a control group, to see if any growth differences.

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## Powhatan

Give it some shade with moisture, and the "string of beads" poa trivialis will grow during hot summer.

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## Powhatan

103F today - had a "few" lightning strikes with the evening thundershowers


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## social port

Hey @Powhatan, have you noticed any response from the Garden Safe Fungicide3 app?

Can't believe that temperature! 103!


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## Powhatan

social port said:


> Hey Powhatan, have you noticed any response from the Garden Safe Fungicide3 app?
> 
> Can't believe that temperature! 103!


@social port I did a quick visual of the BP areas this morning. They don't appear to be getting larger and I didn't notice any new spots forming.

With the high heat yesterday, moisture overnight, then high heat again today, I anticipate new fungal activity to appear. I planned to spray another neem oil app this weekend for a 7 day interval, but with the current high heat wave I'll have to wait to sometime next week when the temps drop down to the "cool" 80s. I also want to put down some Ringer since most of the grass is green and still growing during the summer (for now).


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## Powhatan

103F again today reporting from a local Weather Underground station, not the official airport reading.

This area receives full sun mid-day. This is late afternoon when the house blocks the setting sun. The Brown Patch areas are in the foreground. They are about the same size as last week. Soon as it gets a little cooler <90sF during the day next week I'll put down some more neem oil.

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## Green

That's a testimonial for KY-31. I think I'll get some for my family member's lawn where the TTTF/HBG died out near pavement. In that lawn, the KY-31 and some grassy weeds are the only thing still green.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> That's a testimonial for KY-31. I think I'll get some for my family member's lawn where the TTTF/HBG died out near pavement. In that lawn, the KY-31 and some grassy weeds are the only thing still green.


It does have it's niche. Why fight mother nature, use what works for the situation. :thumbup:


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a testimonial for KY-31. I think I'll get some for my family member's lawn where the TTTF/HBG died out near pavement. In that lawn, the KY-31 and some grassy weeds are the only thing still green.
> 
> 
> 
> It does have it's niche. Why fight mother nature, use what works for the situation. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Speaking of which, how did your HBG do with dormancy the first year? Did much make it through where it was totally brown?


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## Powhatan

With recent evening thundershowers, most areas of the lawn the grass is up to 6"+ tall. Definitely will be breaking the 1/3 cut rule next mow.

10 days ago sprayed neem oil 70% in this Brown Patch area. With recent rains and high temps/humidity, looks like it hasn't spread wider (knock on wood). The inner area looks greener. I'll still spray some more neem oil when the temps drop next week.

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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a testimonial for KY-31. I think I'll get some for my family member's lawn where the TTTF/HBG died out near pavement. In that lawn, the KY-31 and some grassy weeds are the only thing still green.
> 
> 
> 
> It does have it's niche. Why fight mother nature, use what works for the situation. :thumbup:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speaking of which, how did your HBG do with dormancy the first year? Did much make it through where it was totally brown?
Click to expand...

Don't know honestly if some went dormant, but I saw green HBG in Aug.


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does have it's niche. Why fight mother nature, use what works for the situation. :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of which, how did your HBG do with dormancy the first year? Did much make it through where it was totally brown?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't know honestly if some went dormant, but I saw green HBG in Aug.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah...those were the shots where I remembered seeing PRG but not HBG. Not sure if it was how it photographed, or if I was looking at a different grass.


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## Powhatan

Not ready for what looks like Bermuda to take over the cool season grass lawn. I yanked these out by the roots.

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## Green

Now that's one thing I don't have to worry about here...yet. There are people in the Northeast starting to play around with the newer, more cold tolerant Bermudas. Not sure if that's a good idea...it could eventually become invasive here, too. Zoysia is bad enough.


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## social port

@Powhatan. Keep your eye on that bermuda area. I would be impressed if you got rid of it by hand-pulling, but I'm hoping for the best. If you notice more, the quicker you hit it, the better. It spreads quickly.


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## Powhatan

The KY-31 seems to love growing in the heat.


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## Powhatan

Thundershowers on their way to lower the temp and drop some nutritious rain. Almost time to cut the grass jungle and feed it some organic fertilizer. :yahoo:

Seeing lots more of these seed stalks. Even under stress the grass wants to reproduce ... crazy.

KY-31 went to seed last year in July also.

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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed, Raised HOC to 3.50". Put down 50# Ringer 9-0-2 organic fertilizer.


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## Powhatan

Mowed weeds growing in the gravel road ditch area with my iPush walk behind mower and trimmed up the trees.

Sprayed another round of organic Garden Safe Brand Fungicide3 (70% neem oil) on brown patch areas, had enough neem oil left over so I sprayed most of the lawn as a preventative.

This is the largest BP area initial noticed about 2 weeks ago. Lot less brown infection blades and more green filling in.

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## Powhatan

Got up to 98F today. Picked up about 5 GL bucket amount of soil obstruction rocks from the front and side yards, lots more to pick up.


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## Powhatan

social port said:


> Keep your eye on that bermuda area. I would be impressed if you got rid of it by hand-pulling, but I'm hoping for the best. If you notice more, the quicker you hit it, the better. It spreads quickly.


@social port and @Green they snuck back. Didn't see these yesterday. I hand-pulled a little deeper after taking this pic. Next time more drastic moves. :fight:


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> I noticed something curious in the pic. The red arrow is pointing to something coming up next to the tall fescue. I wonder what that is (lateral spread ?). I'll have to keep an eye on it.


Could be anything. But if it's a cool-season grass, my bet is HBG since it's the most prolific spreader of everything you have. We'll see.

I was reading something yesterday that even Hard Fescue has rhizomes, much like Tall Fescue.


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## social port

During this time of year, I have found that the color of bermuda blends well with fescue, which makes it difficult to notice.
Of course, that raises the question: If it blends in so well, what's the big deal? Just leave it. The stand is uniform, at least in terms of color.
Then, before you know it, it has taken over, and it is shooting seedheads up everywhere.


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## Powhatan

This grass clump (PRG ?) didn't get the memo about needing 1" of irrigation weekly to be heathy & survive. It's been growing in the gravel driveway that receives afternoon through early evening direct summer sun. The surrounding rocks absorbing heat I'm sure are giving the roots a hot foot.

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## Powhatan

The encore azaleas have yellowing leaves indicating iron deficiency. Put down 3/4 cup *Pennington UltraGreen Azalea, Camellia & Rhododendron Plant Food 10-8-6* around each plant. Thanks @Dawgvet

Edit: A week later and a couple of rain showers, no new yellowing, the fertilizer worked.


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## social port

Powhatan said:


> This grass clump (PRG ?) didn't get the memo about needing 1" of irrigation weekly to be heathy & survive. It's been growing in the gravel driveway that receives afternoon through early evening direct summer sun. The surrounding rocks absorbing heat I'm sure are giving the roots a hot foot.


What?! That looks better than some of my grass that is growing in well-tended soil.
The shade is the secret, perhaps?


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> This grass clump (PRG ?) didn't get the memo about needing 1" of irrigation weekly to be heathy & survive. It's been growing in the gravel driveway that receives afternoon through early evening direct summer sun. The surrounding rocks absorbing heat I'm sure are giving the roots a hot foot.


It has the veins, right? I think I could barely see them on one blade when zoomed all the way in. If so, then yes, it's PR. I have had some survive growing in the road in front of my lawn in the past...in asphalt. You know how hot that stuff gets? In fact, right now there is some grass there (KBG this time).


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## social port

Green said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This grass clump (PRG ?) didn't get the memo about needing 1" of irrigation weekly to be heathy & survive. It's been growing in the gravel driveway that receives afternoon through early evening direct summer sun. The surrounding rocks absorbing heat I'm sure are giving the roots a hot foot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has the veins, right? I think I could barely see them on one blade when zoomed all the way in. If so, then yes, it's PR. I have had some survive growing in the road in front of my lawn in the past...in asphalt. You know how hot that stuff gets? In fact, right now there is some grass there (KBG this time).
Click to expand...

I've developed a concept of PR that is defined by beautiful color, quick establishment, superb stripe-ability, and intolerance of substantial heat or cold temps. I've heard and read of its temperature intolerance from multiple sources. What am I to think now? Exception to the prototype? Or is it simply a more complicated grass than captured by the concept?


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## Powhatan

social port said:


> What?! That looks better than some of my grass that is growing in well-tended soil.
> The shade is the secret, perhaps?


Rain overcast clouds were moving in when I took the pic. That part of the driveway and front yard receives the bulk of the afternoon direct sun. That clump on the driveway is just to the right of this front yard area that was baked on Jul 4. It's ironic that PRG survives this far into summer. Since I don't irrigate, maybe the grass is accustomed to rain "deep & infrequent" showers. We still have a month & half or more of summer left so turf conditions will probably change.



Green said:


> It has the veins, right? I think I could barely see them on one blade when zoomed all the way in. If so, then yes, it's PR. I have had some survive growing in the road in front of my lawn in the past...in asphalt. You know how hot that stuff gets? In fact, right now there is some grass there (KBG this time).


Yes, it has veins. It's darker green like the other clumps I thought were HBG. Since I've been wrong in the past, I didn't want to up front say it was PRG. Over the weekend I was removing small rocks near that area in the yard when the sun was beating down ... and YES the rocks were ouch HOT. Amazing where grass finds places to grow.


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## Powhatan

Received some thundershowers this week. No rain forecasted today so letting the grass dry out before cutting. Haven't noticed any new fungal outbreaks. I sprayed neem oil as a preventative last week. I'll spray some more after grass is cut.


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> Yes, it has veins. It's darker green like the other clumps I thought were HBG. Since I've been wrong in the past, I didn't want to up front say it was PRG.


I used to think TTPR was TTTF, myself...

Question on collecting seeds for later use. How do you get the seeds off the stalks so nicely after drying?


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Question on collecting seeds for later use. How do you get the seeds off the stalks so nicely after drying?


Similar steps as listed here with some differences:

- During harvest period, pulled stalks off grass clump that seed end had mostly dried/brown, collected those in a paper bag and placed bag in shed building to further dry out.
- Held non-seed stalk end with one hand and with the other hand placed thumb and forefinger pressure right above seed area, then slid down seed end to release seeds. The seeds that were dry and loose fell into a paper bag. I repeated a few times to get any remaining seeds. Some seeds stayed on stalk so didn't worry about those.

First time doing all this so we'll see if I harvested at the right time and let the the seeds dry enough or possibly too long. I found this article with video; the experts check seed moisture to know when optimum harvest time.


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## Powhatan

Dang bermuda growing again.

This time went down about 6" and dug up more roots. That little one on the left I found while digging down.

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## Powhatan

Young poa trivialis coming up. :crying:

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## Green

Powhatan said:


> Scotts PRG growing next to a KY-31. It's surprising to me that several PRG sowed last fall still growing and doing well even after several hot dry summer days.


Yeah, pretty sure I still have some left that was planted 8+ years ago. Some of it definitely hangs around over time. And it's not just Summer here that's tough on it...Winter, too.

And that one is definitely PR. I wonder if that's one plant that's spreading, or multiple plants from multiple seeds, by the way.

Thanks for the tips on collecting seed. I'm in the process of doing it now.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> And that one is definitely PR. I wonder if that's one plant that's spreading, or multiple plants from multiple seeds, by the way.


I mixed 3.5 lbs of Scotts PRG with some TTTF at the end of last Sep overseed after my KY-31 overseed earlier that month pretty much drowned due to Hurricane/Tropical storms. There's random darker grass PRG clumps all over the yard. I haven't noticed if any spread, I'll try to remember to look for that.



Green said:


> Thanks for the tips on collecting seed. I'm in the process of doing it now.


Your welcome.


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## Powhatan

First year encore azaleas doing well this summer bloom cycle.



I think this is a type of sumac tree/bush but I haven't been able to identify it yet. The winged insects love the white panicles on top.



Don't step on the copperhead.


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## social port

Powhatan said:


> Don't step on the copperhead.


 :shock:

Oh no problem, Powhatan. I wouldn't stop running until I hit the floor inside the house.


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## Powhatan

Fall lawn plan:

Sep:
- N-Ext RGS & Air-8 "Compaction Cure" app.
- 25 lbs Carbon X 24-0-4 fertilizer @ 0.50#N/M.
- Soil temp average 70F late Sep optimum PreM application window.

Oct:
- Overseed KY-31 & TTTF approx. 80/20 mix. Lots of killed poa trivialis patches in back yard to fill in. Will probably be killing more triv next spring.

Nov:
- N-Ext RGS & Air-8 "Compaction Cure" app.
- 28 lbs Scotts 32-0-10 fertilizer @ 0.70#N/M.
- PreM, 20 lbs Sta-Green Crabgrass Preventer (dithiopyr) @ 1.6#/M approx. 3 month coverage. Will miss late Sep 70F temp drop optimum pre-M target date due to Oct overseed.
- Mulch leaves Nov & Dec.


----------



## Powhatan

social port said:


> Oh no problem, Powhatan. I wouldn't stop running until I hit the floor inside the house.


One of the many benefits of living close to nature, gotta watch out for the poisonous inhabitants especially while walking the dog.


----------



## social port

Powhatan said:


> Lots of killed poa trivialis patches in back yard to fill in.


Do you have a plan for how you are going to remove the dead triv and grass and get the patches ready for seeding?


----------



## Powhatan

social port said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of killed poa trivialis patches in back yard to fill in.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a plan for how you are going to remove the dead triv and grass and get the patches ready for seeding?
Click to expand...

The dead triv stems & foliage parts from spring are already withered and gone. Any remaining green live triv "bead" stems/roots I've been exposing as much as possible to the sunlight to dry & kill them as I find them. There's some small triv plants appearing from the left behind beads in some of the dead patch areas, I'll probably hand-pull those and get as much plant structure as possible. I'll rough up the bare ground possibly using a Garden Weasel before overseeding.

I've noticed lots more live triv beads in various other parts of the lawn. I don't know if those triv plants will clump standout like they did earlier this spring as several of us noticed, or look more typical light green tall growing grass.

Long term battle :fight:


----------



## Powhatan

Poplar trees dropping summer leaves. I mowed four days ago, the organic fertilizer and rain are giving the grass a growth kick.


----------



## Powhatan

I found this tree's identification. It's _Aralia spinosa_ or commonly named Devil's Walking Stick. Once I determined that the leaf arraignment was called "bipinnate" it was easier to find the tree ID.



Sharp spines you don't want to walk in hand with - ouch.


----------



## Powhatan

Much mowed @ HOC 3.50".

It's been about a week since I dug up bermuda roots, nothing re-appearing. Hopefully (fingers crossed) I got all the roots.


----------



## Powhatan

Brown patch area one month after three neem oil applications.


----------



## Powhatan

Five days later needs another cut. Got some rust disease appearing; it's hungry for more nitrogen.


----------



## Powhatan

98F today and very humid. Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.50".

Hand-pulled several annual sedge weeds, being dark green color they blend in well with the surrounding grass so kinda difficult to see them. I've noticed them in areas where the lighter green nutsedges pop up.

Looks like an oak tree is dying, all it's leaves are turning brown. I'll cut it down if no leaves appear next spring.

I want to add more white clover into the yard than what's already there. I'll mix a pound or two with the rest of grass seed when I overseed this fall and next spring. I understand the deer and rabbits like clover, heck I don't have do a last mow for the year due to the wild animals eat the grass almost down to the crown in early winter.


----------



## Powhatan

These annual sedge weeds are proliferating as much as poa annua does. Next year gotta make sure preM extends further into summer.


----------



## social port

Powhatan said:


> Next year gotta make sure preM extends further into summer.


Does dithiopyr control sedges?


----------



## Powhatan

social port said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Next year gotta make sure preM extends further into summer.
> 
> 
> 
> Does dithiopyr control sedges?
Click to expand...

According to the NCSU Annual Sedge article the two preM that are recommended are: mesotrione, MOA 27 (4 SC) (Tenacity) or sulfentrazone + prodiamine], MOA 14 + 3 (4 SC) (Echelon).

Since sedge is not a grass apparently it needs two different MOA for chemical control.

Bonide Sedge Ender has active ingredients sulfentrazone + prodiamine and is a preM and postM herbicide.

I'll probably do two preM apps next year, one early spring MOA 3 and the other early summer MOA 3 + 14.


----------



## social port

I came across the prodiamine + sulfentrazone mix earlier today while researching preM for another project. I was left uncertain about the effectiveness. My reasoning: prodiamine by itself isn't a great option, and I know sulfentrazone only as a post-emergent. 
I also saw a branded formulation of the same mix of herbicides, so there must be something I am missing.

I liked the option of pennant magnum at 50-60 day intervals (per U Tenn), but I'm not sure if it ok for cool season turf. It is pricey, too.


----------



## Green

You can get Echelon in a Bonide brand. Greendoc and I discussed it. But I guess it's rough on Fescue certain times of the year...and is a better post-emergent than pre-M.


----------



## Powhatan

Had several thunderstorm cells go over the house last night, lots of lighting and rain. Power was out for about 6 hours, ran the portable generator to run the water well pump and charge the cell phones. Thanks *Dominion Energy* for quick restore.

One of many juvenile toads I've seen this morning. Don't need to put down insecticides, they eat: Crickets, Flies, Worms, Spiders, *Grubs*, Slugs, Snails, Mice, Lizards, Snakes, and Small Fish.


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## social port

It looks like that could be a hybrid sticking up between the two trees, or perhaps bluegrass.

I can't believe how little growth has slowed this summer. It sounds like the summer has been similar for you.


----------



## Powhatan

social port said:


> It looks like that could be a hybrid sticking up between the two trees, or perhaps bluegrass.
> 
> I can't believe how little growth has slowed this summer. It sounds like the summer has been similar for you.


Sure does look like some boat tips there. I hope it's the HBG and not poa t 

Hot and dry prior to July 4 with slow growth, since then have had almost a weekly afternoon thundershower to keep soil somewhat moist. Also, I started this year putting down soil improvers: humic acid and biochar. Pete @ GCI says _"get your dirt right"_ :thumbup:


----------



## social port

Powhatan said:


> Pete @ GCI says "get your dirt right"


 :lol: Love it. :thumbup:


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## Powhatan

Picked up several small soil obstruction rocks. Used the leaf rake to remove some dead grass debris. Mulch mowed HOC @ 3.5".


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## social port

Powhatan said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Next year gotta make sure preM extends further into summer.
> 
> 
> 
> Does dithiopyr control sedges?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to the NCSU Annual Sedge article the two preM that are recommended are: mesotrione, MOA 27 (4 SC) (Tenacity) or sulfentrazone + prodiamine], MOA 14 + 3 (4 SC) (Echelon).
> 
> Since sedge is not a grass apparently it needs two different MOA for chemical control.
> 
> Bonide Sedge Ender has active ingredients sulfentrazone + prodiamine and is a preM and postM herbicide.
> 
> I'll probably do two preM apps next year, one early spring MOA 3 and the other early summer MOA 3 + 14.
Click to expand...




social port said:


> I came across the prodiamine + sulfentrazone mix earlier today while researching preM for another project. I was left uncertain about the effectiveness. My reasoning: prodiamine by itself isn't a great option, and I know sulfentrazone only as a post-emergent.
> I also saw a branded formulation of the same mix of herbicides, so there must be something I am missing.
> 
> I liked the option of pennant magnum at 50-60 day intervals (per U Tenn), but I'm not sure if it ok for cool season turf. It is pricey, too.


Looks like my reasoning misled me. Apparently, sulfentrazone also doubles as a PreM for nutsedge :? See Greendoc and Green around the middle of p. 1.


----------



## Powhatan

social port said:


> Looks like my reasoning misled me. Apparently, sulfentrazone also doubles as a PreM for nutsedge :? See Greendoc and Green around the middle of p. 1.


Thanks for the info.


----------



## Powhatan

Since I have HBG and poa trivialis I was curious what these BG looking grasses I'm currently seeing in the lawn.

Definitely rhizomatous with boat tips. I don't see the string of beads stems/roots so not looking like poa t. I pulled back a collar and didn't see a ligule. So I'm believing these are HBG.


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## Green

Looks like KBG (which you don't have) so HBG is a valid ID.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Looks like KBG (which you don't have) so HBG is a valid ID.


Thanks @Green

When I see these lighter green areas (red circled areas) my initial thought is poa t, but I've read that some (maybe all ?) HBG cultivars are lighter green. Heck, the surrounding KY-31 looks darker compared to the HBG. These lighter green areas currently have some degree of fungal infection that I don't plan to treat. Next month the whole lawn will start receiving the fall nitrogen feeding. Once the HBG gets fed with nitrogen & iron they should start to turn darker green and blend in better with the KY-31.


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## Powhatan

KY-31 giving me a hint this morning it's ready. Hang in there, just need to wait another month for seed down.


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## Powhatan

Went to a few TSC stores to check on their DLF coated KY-31 seed selection. All the seed bags had the noxious poa annua seed, so won't be buying KY-31 seeds this fall. Since I use preM I don't get excited about some weed seeds being included (no lawn is 100% weed free), but that's too much poa annua to deliberately introduce. The MO grown seeds usually have a lot more weed seeds than the OR grown.



I have about 10# of DLF coated KY-31 seeds and 5# of Scotts coated Southern Gold TTTF left over from last overseed to use this fall. I'll need to buy additional 40# Scotts coated Southern Gold TTTF to use. I plan to also put down 2# of coated white clover - added biodiversity.

I'll probably be killing more poa trivialis clumps next spring and leaving dead patches so I don't need to put down high priced certified grass seed this year.


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## Powhatan

Ready for another trim. I'll bring the HOC down to 3.25" due to high rain chance later in the week from hurricane Dorian. 97F and humid today - yuck


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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.25".

Poa trivialis coming up from the ashes and getting a head start before lawn grass overseed. Probably spray glyphosate before seed down.


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## Powhatan

Sprayed glyphosate 50.2% concentrate mixed @ 3 tbs/GL on all young poa trivialis weeds in the spring kill poa t dead patch areas. I'll spray again in a couple of weeks. Anticipate performing fall overseed either late Sep or early Oct.


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> Sprayed glyphosate 50.2% concentrate mixed @ 3 tbs/1 gl on all young poa trivialis weeds in the spring kill poa t dead patch areas. I'll spray again in a couple of weeks. Anticipate performing fall overseed either late Sep or early Oct.


Wow. So, it's still hot where you are. By contrast, it looks like a cool September here (70s and some 60s for highs forecast the next two weeks...last days in the 80s are Tuesday and Wednesday).

And you still have Poa Trivialis coming up...amazing. This is the time of year in your area when stuff should really be stressing out from Summer on the South side. Is this on the North side or shaded?


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Wow. So, it's still hot where you are. By contrast, it looks like a cool September here (70s and some 60s for highs forecast the next two weeks...last days in the 80s are Tuesday and Wednesday).
> 
> And you still have Poa Trivialis coming up...amazing. This is the time of year in your area when stuff should really be stressing out from Summer on the South side. Is this on the North side or shaded?


Daytime highs this past month been mid-80s to upper 90s, mostly 90s. The lows have been getting down to 60s. I expect another week or so of higher day temps before they start their fall descend.

All the surrounding tree leaves cast varying degree of filtered shade to full sunlight on the lawn throughout the day as the sun arcs over. Mid-day is most direct sun on the back yard. The front receives the bulk direct sun mid-afternoon to early evening. Spring is actually better for growing grass in my yard due to a lot less tree leaves to block the sunlight.

The soil temp today was 80F @ 2" depth. The poa trivialis I'm guessing are germinating from the "string of beads" pieces that didn't die this past spring when I sprayed. I guess it's kinda good that I didn't re-seed grass in the dead patches, now I can see where the poa t is coming up and can target them directly with the glyphosate.


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## Green

They must be lumpy like that because they were about to throw out new stems from those areas...that's all I can figure.

By contrast, none of the Triv that I killed and left unseeded has come back. But some didn't die where I used selective herbicides on it instead of glyphosate in damp, partly shaded areas, despite essentially over a month straight around 90 degrees. That stuff has a very different look...it looks like fine fescue, almost. Almost 100% positive it's a cultivar of Triv, though. My plan, believe it or not, is to hit it with multiple apps of Tenacity every 2 weeks, starting tomorrow...it's already weakened from the Certainty herbicide I used several times this Summer, so maybe this will help kill some of it.


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## Green

@Powhatan, how wide does your KY-31 get? I measured some TTTF blades today at one extreme where they don't get trimmed often, and they were 5/16ths and 6/16ths inch wide.

I also saw a grass root with lumpiness, sort of like your beads on a string Triv, but a little different. I'm not sure what type of grass it was, but it could have been Triv. There were small roots coming out of each lump. They were not succulent like yours...just brown and thin.


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## Powhatan

@Green I'm out of town this week so can't provide an exact measurement, but in the below pic the uncut mature KY-31 leaf is about as wide as the crabgrass leaf.


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## Powhatan

Grass grew to ~6", raised HOC to 4".

Some young poa trivialis I sprayed about two weeks ago either I missed or didn't die. Sprayed again glyphosate 50.2% concentrate mix @ 3 oz/GL on all young poa trivialis weeds in the spring kill poa t dead patch areas.



Plan to spray N-Ext RGS & Air-8 "Compaction Cure" app. within the next week or so to start loosening the soil.

10 day forecast has air temps in high 80s to low 90s. Beginning of Oct still looking like a good target time to overseed for me. I don't irrigate. Coated grass seeds, rain and some hand held hose watering, with cooler air temps, is what I depend upon for grass germination in the fall. Scotts coated grass seeds treated with _Apron XL - protection against soil-born fungus_.


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## Powhatan

Here's some poa trivialis that I needed to spray again.



Large mature wolf spider.


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## Powhatan

Soil temperature is 73F @ 2" depth this morning, same as the 10 year average on the GreenCast tool. Getting closer to overseed. Air temperature forecast for late this month is mid to low 80s, but unfortunately no generous rainfall % - super computer algorithms don't know everything. :wink:


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## Powhatan

Feeling like fall. Morning radiation fog this week. Day air temps still averaging mid to upper 80s, but night air temps dipping down to 60s/50s; it was 47F this morning. Even the soil temps went down this week, 63F @ 2" depth, that's lower than the GreenCast tool.

I'll spray a N-Ext RGS & Air-8 "Compaction Cure" app. this weekend. Then, next week or so I'll overseed. I'll put down Scotts Foundation Soil Improver and alfalfa pellets along with the grass seed. 2nd mow after germination I'll put down Carbon X. Low rate nitrogen and soil improvement amendments is the focus this year.

Also will be doing some landscaping and gardening activities, planting four Southern Wax Myrtle (nitrogen fixing) trees and several milkweed plant seeds.


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## Green

@Powhatan, I ordered the KY-31 seed locally, but had to reject it when I saw the label...there were 98 Poa Triv seeds per lb, and a few other weeds that I am not familiar with, like Curly Dock. I will post the label for you later.

I'm still considering trying to find a better, cleaner seed lot tonight to order from. Do you know which brands are cleanest currently?


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## Powhatan

@Green I've only bought DLF Pickseed coated (green bag) KY-31 from TSC. TSC also sells DLF Pickseed non-coated (white bag). The non-coated usually has a lot more weed seeds than the coated, also MO grown usually has more weed seeds than OR grown. This year's DLF offering has too much poa a noxious weed seeds so I won't being using that.

I've seen Pennington KY-31 sold at Lowe's, HD, and Walmart. I probably checked their seed tag a couple years ago when I initial sowed KY-31, but I don't recall the weed content. It was probably higher than DLF at the time. That being said, as you probably know the weed content varies from year to year.

Never bought any KY-31 seed from online vendors as their site don't show seed tag or weed content.


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## Powhatan

It's been very warm and dry, the ground feels rock solid.

100 years ago in 1919 in early Oct, Richmond VA had record high 90s, so our current early fall high temps are nothing new.

Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.50". Soil temp warmer 76F @ 2" depth.

I planned on spraying a N-Ext RGS & Air-8 "Compaction Cure" app. this weekend, but thought it would be a good idea to soften up the "rock solid" ground so the N-Ext product has better penetration into the soil profile. So I hooked up two Orbit water timers with sprinklers and set those to water three different times during the day. I may have to continue to use this irrigation to keep grass seeds moist when I overseed if we don't receive any appreciable rain within the next 2 weeks.


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## Chris LI

Powhatan said:


> I planned on spraying a N-Ext RGS & Air-8 "Compaction Cure" app. this weekend, but thought it would be a good idea to soften up the "rock solid" ground so the N-Ext product has better penetration into the soil profile. So I hooked up two Orbit water timers with sprinklers and set those to water three different times during the day. I may have to continue to use this irrigation to keep grass seeds moist when I overseed if we don't receive any appreciable rain within the next 2 weeks.


I'm very interested in your results. I don't have the time or patience for powdered SLS, so I've used the typical baby shampoo apps without much progress (I know the concentration is much lower). I applied some Simple Lawn Solutions liquid aerator this week (different A.I., but much more concentrated), and am very intrigued on the Air-8 from N-Ext, and have been researching it through various means. I appreciate your experiences/opinion on the product. Thanks.


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## Powhatan

Very busy day today.

Planted four Southern Wax Myrtle trees, placed mulch around base. I purchased them from a NC online nursery, very good quality and service. Thanks Tar Heels.

Air temps this week 90s80s day / 60s night, but the following week forecasted to be 70s day / 50s night. Soil temperature today was 70F @ 2" depth. Good time to overseed.

Still somewhat too hot (according to label) to apply a N-Ext "Compaction Cure" app.

Grass height 5+", mulch mowed lower @ HOC 3". A little bit of breaking 1/3 rule to stunt for overseeding.

I only overseeded the back and side yards. We'll probably put up some Halloween decorations on the front lawn, so I'll overseed the front next spring.


40# Scotts coated TTTF Southern Gold, 6# Scotts coated TTTF/CRF Dense Shade, 3# DLF Pickseed coated KY-31, 2# Scotts coated PRG, and 1.5# Outsidepride coated White Clover. The back and side yards receive the most shade during day that's why I put down the creeping red fescue mix.

The whole lawn I put down 80# alfalfa pellets and 50# Scotts Foundation Soil Improver. I was curious about the Scotts product to try it. Below is what the improver looks like:





Installed two Orbit water timers (two watering stations each) connected to four impact sprinklers to water the back and side yards only. Each watering station runs in succession (don't all run at the same time - not enough water pressure). Currently set to water three times during the day time for 10 minutes every four hours. The Y adapter left side connection is my garden hose that I can use independently of the timer.


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## Green

I used the Scott's Foundation stuff once this Spring. No idea if it was more that or the Calcitic Lime needed that helped, but the area looks much better this year, and last year's overseed held up great. So something was effective. I still have not fertilized the area since June or July. I'm due for it, but it still looks good.

Last year, for overseed, I did the opposite as you, adding TTTF and HBG to the mostly CRF/KBG mix that was there (though I did add in some more PR/CRF/KBG as well). Similar to you, I now have a Tall and Fine Fescue, Bluegrass, and Ryegrass mix on at least 2,000 square feet. This year I just have to spot seed some of the areas where I killed the Triv this Spring.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Last year, for overseed, I did the opposite as you, adding TTTF and HBG to the mostly CRF/KBG mix that was there (though I did add in some more PR/CRF/KBG as well). Similar to you, I now have a Tall and Fine Fescue, Bluegrass, and Ryegrass mix on at least 2,000 square feet. This year I just have to spot seed some of the areas where I killed the Triv this Spring.


 :thumbup: Polyculture and increasing biodiversity I believe is primary to a healthy turf and enviroment. Even though I had some lawn fungus (rust, brown patch, and net blotch) this summer, I didn't apply synthetic fungicides, only spot sprayed organic neem oil on some areas.


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## Powhatan

Barrel Owl


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## Powhatan

48 hours post seed down the coated White Clover is starting to germinate before the PRG and TTTF.


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## Powhatan

Lowered watering time to 6 minutes for each watering cycle. Seeing some mushrooms and minor grass yellowing, have not noticed any mycelium in the morning. No grass germination yet, just clover. Seeing lots multi-leg insects going about their biological business on the soil surface.

High air temps still staying in the 90s80s this week with no rain. After next weekend, the forecast is still calling for lower air temps along with chance of rainfall.


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## social port

Hey, @Powhatan, I think that I am going to need a small amount of topsoil this year. I'm not wild about Scott's topsoil, but that foundation improver is intriguing. I'm guessing, however, that the foundation improver should not be considered an alternative to topsoil; presumably the foundation improver is more akin to compost? I am really lacking in my knowledge of soil, so that bag analysis doesn't mean much to me.


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## Powhatan

social port said:


> Hey, Powhatan, I think that I am going to need a small amount of topsoil this year. I'm not wild about Scott's topsoil, but that foundation improver is intriguing. I'm guessing, however, that the foundation improver should not be considered an alternative to topsoil; presumably the foundation improver is more akin to compost? I am really lacking in my knowledge of soil, so that bag analysis doesn't mean much to me.


@social port it's my understanding that both the improver and compost have soil amendment mineral type ingredients but the compost has the additional decaying organic material and humus.

"The Most Important Soil Amendment No One Ever Talks About"
https://www.growingagreenerworld.com/rock-minerals-as-soil-amendments/


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## social port

Powhatan said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, Powhatan, I think that I am going to need a small amount of topsoil this year. I'm not wild about Scott's topsoil, but that foundation improver is intriguing. I'm guessing, however, that the foundation improver should not be considered an alternative to topsoil; presumably the foundation improver is more akin to compost? I am really lacking in my knowledge of soil, so that bag analysis doesn't mean much to me.
> 
> 
> 
> @social port it's my understanding that both the improver and compost have soil amendment mineral type ingredients but the compost has the additional decaying organic material and humus.
> 
> "The Most Important Soil Amendment No One Ever Talks About"
> https://www.growingagreenerworld.com/rock-minerals-as-soil-amendments/
Click to expand...

Ah...that's the significance of the volcanic ash, then.


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## Powhatan

Lowered sprinkler watering time to 5 minutes for each cycle.

4 days post seed down the grass babies are joining the clover. :yahoo:


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## Green

social port said:


> Hey, Powhatan, I think that I am going to need a small amount of topsoil this year. I'm not wild about Scott's topsoil, but that foundation improver is intriguing. I'm guessing, however, that the foundation improver should not be considered an alternative to topsoil; presumably the foundation improver is more akin to compost? I am really lacking in my knowledge of soil, so that bag analysis doesn't mean much to me.


I saw weeds growing out of the Scotts topsoil bags. No good. But what I did use, is their garden soil (white and green bag - Miracle-Gro brand) no issues with it. Seems to be a good product. Mix in some sand or clay to match your own soil if you have to (I mix sand).


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## social port

Green said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, Powhatan, I think that I am going to need a small amount of topsoil this year. I'm not wild about Scott's topsoil, but that foundation improver is intriguing. I'm guessing, however, that the foundation improver should not be considered an alternative to topsoil; presumably the foundation improver is more akin to compost? I am really lacking in my knowledge of soil, so that bag analysis doesn't mean much to me.
> 
> 
> 
> I saw weeds growing out of the Scotts topsoil bags. No good. But what I did use, is their garden soil (white and green bag - Miracle-Gro brand) no issues with it. Seems to be a good product. Mix in some sand or clay to match your own soil if you have to (I mix sand).
Click to expand...

I am looking for topsoil. Currently, I have compost and sand. Getting topsoil that is weed free is always a concern. Sounds like the scotts garden soil is more like compost, or can you say?


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## Green

social port said:


> Sounds like the scotts garden soil is more like compost, or can you say?


That's correct. But it's Miracle-Gro branded. There are a few pieces of rock or plastic and some uncomposted stuff like small sticks that are partly composted, but overall it seems like good stuff. I mix with sand to create topsoil.


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## Powhatan

99.5F reporting from local Weather Underground station. The last significant rainfall >0.50" was on Aug 2 - yikes.

Good news is the temps are forecasted going lower after today.


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## Powhatan

6 days post seed down areas of yard that are receiving the irrigation have lots of emergence. Since my sprinklers don't reach the whole yard, I have areas that the grass seeds are still sitting there. Hopefully they are still viable and with "some" forecasted rain within the next week they will start to germinate. If not, I'll re-seed again those areas when I seed the front yard next late winter dormant seeding.


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## social port

Congrats on the germination!
Still so hot there--2 degrees hotter than where I am. I bet the rain will be welcomed. We might get some in Tennessee, too, in a couple of days.


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## Green

I looked at the US map, and everyone from DC and St. Louis down, in the East, has been in the 90s. A lot of the country hasn't a taste of Fall yet.


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## Green

@Powhatan, does that Triv seedling have a seed attached to it or is it from stolons?


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## Powhatan

social port said:


> Congrats on the germination!
> Still so hot there--2 degrees hotter than where I am. I bet the rain will be welcomed. We might get some in Tennessee, too, in a couple of days.


Thanks. Finally have some cooler days coming, but the forecast for precipitation still looks depressing.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Powhatan, does that Triv seedling have a seed attached to it or is it from stolons?


@Green I don't see anything that appears to be a stolon, must of germinated from a poa triv root stem "string bead" that was left in the soil from a former live plant. I'm noticing several new poa triv plants in the back yard that I'll have to deal with next spring.


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## Powhatan

Seasonal cooler temperatures arriving.

Planted four more Southern Wax Myrtle trees, making a hedge row.

Clover & grass emergence ~7 days now. Adjusted water timer schedule from daily 3 cycles 5 minutes each to daily 2 cycles 10 minutes each.

Ground is damp in the morning, no mycelium noticed, some new grass seedlings appear to have yellowish base stems so hopefully I'm not watering too much.


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## Powhatan

Moved two sprinklers in back yard to areas that have not received irrigation coverage to start watering non-germinated grass seeds. Slightly rearranged all hoses so to not keep laying on the same spot. Lowered watering cycle time from 10 minutes to 8 minutes, don't want to encourage fungus growth.

Hand-pulled various weeds, easily comes up with the loose dry ground.

Poa trivialis making a come back in some spring kill patches. They'll probably shade out the young desired grass of much needed sun. Other than shade, the compacted sandy soil with less than desirable drainage is encouraging the continued poa t growth.


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## Powhatan

Clover & grass emergence ~10 days now. Several new grass are tillering and are ~2" in height. Maybe this weekend I'll give it a cut using the rotary push mower with a sharp blade.

Shadier sides of house the ground feels a bit too damp to me, I think it needs less watering time. Adjusted timer watering cycles down to 7 minutes each. Small chance of rain forecasted for next two days, I'll suspend irrigation and evaluate needing a cycle run.


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## Powhatan

Received a trace of rain (misting) yesterday. Resumed daily timer watering. Next forecasted rain is next week. This fall's precipitation so far is very depressing.


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## Green

@Powhatan, I finally found the quote I wanted to show you a long time ago:

"*Cultivar 'Seabreeze' is a hybrid between slender 
creeping red fescue and chewings fescue but is released as a slender creeping red fescue cultivar.*"

I thought you'd find this useful as I know you've been looking into Chewings Fescue for potential future overseeding. The advantage of this hybrid is the rhizome activity, unlike a regular Chewings. It's also resistant to low rates of glyphosate, 4-6 oz per acre rate.

I ordered a pound of Hard Fescue (Jetty) to experiment with. We'll see how that goes. I'll dormant overseed a small area under a pine tree with it in March.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Powhatan, I finally found the quote I wanted to show you a long time ago:
> 
> "*Cultivar 'Seabreeze' is a hybrid between slender
> creeping red fescue and chewings fescue but is released as a slender creeping red fescue cultivar.*"
> 
> I thought you'd find this useful as I know you've been looking into Chewings Fescue for potential future overseeding. The advantage of this hybrid is the rhizome activity, unlike a regular Chewings. It's also resistant to low rates of glyphosate, 4-6 oz per acre rate.
> 
> I ordered a pound of Hard Fescue (Jetty) to experiment with. We'll see how that goes. I'll dormant overseed a small area under a pine tree with it in March.


Thanks @Green. The Seabreeze cultivar looks interesting. I'll tuck that away in my lawn notes for possible future use.

Before I got involved with killing poa trivialis this past spring I was thinking of putting down some chewings fescue. Hogan Seed quoted me $3.75 per pound for Zodiac, $20 shipping for 10 pounds, ~$95 total for 20 lbs. SSS Zodiac price is $133.00 for 25 lbs. I didn't want to invest the higher $$$ cost on grass seed for now since I'll probably be killing more poa t with surrounding grass patch areas again this coming spring,

I'm hoping the addition of spreading white clover along with creeping red fescue will give the poa t some competition in conjunction with trying to get more sunlight and better soil drainage in the backyard. Realistically, I don't believe my lawn will ever be 100% poa t free.


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## Powhatan

Back and side yards where I've been irrigating, mature grass height 6"+ and new grass ~3". Front yard receiving no irrigation, grass that's still greenish height ~4" and other parts of yard at base of trees grass is brown dormant.

Mulch mowed whole yard grass & leaves using gas push mower with sharp blade, set deck to highest setting HOC 3.50".

Sprayed N-Ext RGS & Air-8 "Compaction Cure" app. on front yard. The ground is almost hard as a brick.

Put down 25# Carbon X on whole yard.

60% chance of rain tomorrow and 40% on Wednesday - fingers crossed.


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## Powhatan

Some of the poa trivialis kill patches don't have new grass coming up. Not sure if seeds got moved around or something else is affecting new growth. I put down some more TTTF/PRG seeds 90/10% mix in all the kill patch areas.


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## Powhatan

23 days post grass & clover seed down. New grass height 3"+, mature grass height 7"+. I'll mulch mow @ HOC 3.25" later today once the grass dries more from the morning dew.

Air temps 60s/40sF, soil temp 55F @ 2" depth. Ground is staying damp from recent rain and seasonal dampness. I haven't noticed any obvious fungal disease. I took up irrigation water timers, hoses, and sprinklers.

New growth fill-in in the back and side yards looks decent. I didn't overseed the front yard so I'll do that next year when I do a late winter dormant seeding.


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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed grass & leaves using gas push mower with sharp blade, set deck to HOC 3.25".

Sprayed N-Ext RGS & Air-8 "Compaction Cure" app. on back and side yards.


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## Chris LI

Powhatan said:


> Ground is staying damp from recent rain and seasonal dampness. I haven't noticed any obvious fungal disease. I took up irrigation water timers, hoses, and sprinklers.


How about deep soil moisture? I know you had a bad fall drought. We did too. I'm curious as to what your opinion is on current conditions at the 4"-6" level. Do you have a moisture meter? Hopefully, you'll get a little rain from the system passing through GA/NC.


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## Powhatan

Chris LI said:


> How about deep soil moisture? I know you had a bad fall drought. We did too. I'm curious as to what your opinion is on current conditions at the 4"-6" level. Do you have a moisture meter? Hopefully, you'll get a little rain from the system passing through GA/NC.


Don't have a moisture meter, just use my hand touch sensitivity meter. :wink:

The moisture is mainly on the surface to just barely below surface horizon. My lawn soil is mostly sand with low OM and CEC, so once the soil moisture is nil combined higher temps, the soil gets be like a brick. The soil amendments I'm putting down will improve the soil over time.

A couple weeks ago when I dug the holes for some trees, I dug down about 4" to 8" ... the sandy soil was very dry and hard.

We're getting steady light/moderate rain this morning and it's forecasted for most of the day. :yahoo: Good timing mowing the grass and spraying RGS & Air-8 yesterday.


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## Powhatan

Irrigation, overseed, and mowed HOC 3.25". Just need to get those poa trivialis kill patches to fill in.


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## Chris LI

Looking good after the overseed. I'll be following your progress with the Air-8 and RGS. I'm looking to try those two products, in particular. You have a lot of free OM with all those trees, for leaf mulching. If you blow the leaves from the wood line onto the lawn, you could pick up a little extra. :mrgreen:


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## Green

@Powhatan, are you considering putting down fertilizer on the new grass areas specifically in October or early November?


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## Powhatan

@Green not putting down fert in any specific grass areas, I'm ferting the whole yard.

I put down alfalfa pellets at seed down ~3 weeks ago, last weekend I put down Carbon X, and RGS this weekend. Mid next month I'll put down Scotts 32-0-10 and RGS, that will probably be my last for the year.


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## Powhatan

Chris LI said:


> Looking good after the overseed. I'll be following your progress with the Air-8 and RGS. I'm looking to try those two products, in particular. You have a lot of free OM with all those trees, for leaf mulching. If you blow the leaves from the wood line onto the lawn, you could pick up a little extra. :mrgreen:


Thanks @Chris LI. I'll do another Air-8 and RGS app next month, then two more next spring. I don't know how soon I'll be able to notice a difference, but I'm sure the magic juice will help.

Yep, I'll have lots and lots of leaves to mulch. I also like using them for tree base mulching, use what nature is already providing. :thumbup:


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## Powhatan

Used the Stihl blower to fluff up the young grass leaning over from yesterday's rains, more rain is expected tomorrow.


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## Powhatan

Overseeded the last of my 10+ month old grass seed supply TF/TTTF/PRG on the whole yard. Soil temps on average will still be in the 50sF by end of next month. If the seed don't take, no biggie, it will be considered an organic material amendment. I'll winter dormant overseed next Feb with fresh seed.


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## Powhatan




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## Powhatan

Soil temp 65F @ 2" depth.

Noticed some new grass emergence. I doubt these are from recent Oct 23 overseed 3 days ago. Probably from either Sep 26 or Oct 14 overseed, suspect more likely Oct 14 date. I pulled up the sprinkler irrigation on Oct 19, so these guys have received moisture from a couple rainfalls and ground dampness.


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## Powhatan

Had some light showers/misting this morning. The sun came out, humidity rose, and air temp climbed to 83F; had to turn the house A/C back on. Grass needs a cut, but with new grass starting to come up now, I'll wait a week or so to mow again.


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## Stuofsci02

Very nice property!


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## Powhatan

Stuofsci02 said:


> Very nice property!


Thanks, it's a work in progress.


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## Powhatan

Mulched mowed grass & leaves @ HOC 3.25". Rain showers forecasted today and tomorrow. Air temps next week forecasted to drop 50s/30sF for a few days - burr.


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## Powhatan




----------



## Green

Powhatan said:


> Mulched mowed grass & leaves @ HOC 3.25". Rain showers forecasted today and tomorrow. Air temps next week forecasted to drop 50s/30sF for a few days - burr.


We are going to get those temps, too. But it will be a bigger shock for you, as we are already in the 60s (and 40s at night) here.

Lucky you...you got to mow. Here, it's been a constant mist for about 2 days now, and everything is saturated.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> We are going to get those temps, too. But it will be a bigger shock for you, as we are already in the 60s (and 40s at night) here.
> 
> Lucky you...you got to mow. Here, it's been a constant mist for about 2 days now, and everything is saturated.


Maybe you'll get another mow or two in, if nothing else but to mulch leaves. I didn't write down my last mow for last year. Looks like I was mulching leaves into late Nov, then early Dec the deer started to eat the grass almost down to the crown.

By mid next month I need to put down my last fertilizer and a N-Ext RGS & Air-8 compaction cure app. I also need to sow some butterfly milkweed seeds in two or three areas.


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## Powhatan

84F today, very warm for Halloween.

Lots and lots more leaves to fall yet. Gonna fire up the cowboy kettle this weekend, suppose to be in the 30sF.


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## Powhatan

My end of season grass cutters are back, munching on yummy fescue clover mix.


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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.25".


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## Powhatan




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## Powhatan

Soil temp 57F @ 2" depth. Rain is forecasted tomorrow evening. Air temps forecasted to dip to near and below freezing most of next week with a chance of snow late in the week.

Hand scattered ~100 each "Pink Swamp" butterfly milkweed seeds over three different garden areas.

Put down ~.75#N/M Scotts fertilizer ~70% fast release nitrogen with some potassium. Sprayed N-Ext RGS & Air-8 "Compaction Cure" app. over whole yard.


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## Powhatan

Soil temp 50F @ 2" depth. Grass grew ~1" from last Saturday. Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.25". I randomly spread ~2 lb of clover seed over the back and side yards ~9M SqFt when I overseeded late Sep, a little clover seed goes a long way.


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## Powhatan

*2020 Lawn Plan*​
Late Winter:


Dormant overseed with fescue and shade grass seeds KY-31/TTTF/FF.

Spring:


Hand-pull or spot spray weeds with Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control.

Spot treat grass fungus with Garden Safe organic neem oil ready-to-spray.

Bioadvanced "Complete Insect Killer" - using this mostly for grubs and ticks.

Spray N-Ext RGS & Air-8 "Compaction Cure" app.

Very light overseed with Outsidepride white clover.

Low nitrogen slow release organic fertilize.

Mulch mow grass @ HOC 3.5".

Summer:


Hand-pull or spot spray weeds with Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control.

Spot treat grass fungus with Garden Safe organic neem oil ready-to-spray.

EcoLogic organic "Lawn & Yard Insect Killer"- using this mostly for ticks.

Low nitrogen slow release organic fertilize.

Mulch mow grass @ HOC 3.5".

Early Fall:


Hand-pull or spot spray weeds with Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control.

Moderate overseed with fescue and shade grass seeds KY-31/TTTF/FF.

Low nitrogen slow release organic fertilize.

Mulch mow grass & leaves @ HOC 3.5".

Mid Fall:


Hand-pull weeds.

Fast & slow release nitrogen organic/synthetic fertilize.

Mulch mow grass & leaves @ HOC 3.25".


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## Green

•Low nitrogen fertilize with Nutrients PLUS "The Whole Shebang".

Ever used this one before? The only one that seems to be sold around here is the standard Screamin' Green. A long time ago, I also found some with Prodiamine as well, which I finished up this year.

Another thing you might be interested in, is a bacterial biofungicide...I have been using one for a few years with good results. It works best for prevention, when used once a month or so. That way, you can be more proactive and less reactive. Not sure how into blanket spraying you want to be, though.

Also, have you decided what type of fine fescue you're going to use? I don't recall if you already used some or not. I would think Hard Fescue would be the most heat tolerant...on par with KY-31 most likely.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> •Low nitrogen fertilize with Nutrients PLUS "The Whole Shebang".
> 
> Ever used this one before? The only one that seems to be sold around here is the standard Screamin' Green. A long time ago, I also found some with Prodiamine as well, which I finished up this year.
> 
> Another thing you might be interested in, is a bacterial biofungicide...I have been using one for a few years with good results. It works best for prevention, when used once a month or so. That way, you can be more proactive and less reactive. Not sure how into blanket spraying you want to be, though.
> 
> Also, have you decided what type of fine fescue you're going to use? I don't recall if you already used some or not. I would think Hard Fescue would be the most heat tolerant...on par with KY-31 most likely.


@Green, I created a homeowner account at my local SiteOne and noticed they stock and sell at a lower cost similar items I use. I haven't used any of their products yet but looks like good quality stuff. Their inventory says they currently have Nutrients PLUS "Screamin' Green" and Nutrients PLUS "The Whole Shebang" in stock.

Good idea to apply a preventatives. Broadcasting granulars is more my thing than mixing & spraying liquids. Not that I'm that old, but I know some few years from now I won't be able to tote sprayers and hoses all over the yard. So, I'm trying to promote a healthy lawn environment so it can better naturally defend itself.

I'm going with LESCO seed products next year. It's lower cost and I'm sure it will have no or low weed seed amounts. I've previous thought about buying particular seed cultivars, but realized once the seed germinates no one is gonna know what cultivar it is. The SiteOne says: LESCO "All Pro Transition Tall Fescue Seed Blend" is 100% Turf-type Tall fescue-3 varieties and the LESCO "Shade Seed Mixture" is 30% Chewings Fescue, 30% Creeping Red Fescue, 15% Hard Fescue, 15% Turf-type perennial Ryegrass-1 variety, 10% Kentucky Bluegrass. My lawn still has majority KY-31 so the seed quantities I'm putting down are lower seeding rates mostly to fill in thin areas.


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## Powhatan

Rained yesterday morning then some snow late in the afternoon. 71F ~36 hours ago and 21F this morning. Snow was a month earlier this year than 2018 & 2017.


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## Green

Wow. All we got the other day were a few small flakes in the air at one point that were easy to miss.


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## Powhatan

We received barely enough snow to cover the ground, maybe ~1.5". It's all gone now. Last two years we've had snow on Dec 9'th, let's see if this year is the same.


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## Powhatan

Air temp 44F and soil temp 47F. Hand-pulled some orchardgrass and poa trivialis. Mulch mowed grass and leaves @ HOC 3.25", cut about .5" top growth.


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## Powhatan

Wind blowing lot's more leaves down, can't tell I mulched yesterday.


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## Powhatan

Air temp 53F and soil temp 49F.

Hand-pulled some poa trivialis patches. I can tell they are poa t by the darken stems they are forming similar to what the older plant has.

Mulch mowed grass and leaves @ HOC 3.25", cut about .5" top growth, some of the CRF patches had taller growth.


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## Green

Interesting. As you know, I've been pulling up Triv lately as well. But I'm not seeing the dark brownish stems this time of year. In fact, I'm seeing very little in the way of stems...mostly leaves, with some stolons and roots. It seems to be in spreading mode right now. I've been using the string test to ID it, mostly.

As far as grass seed, I think some of my October planted seed may have died in a couple areas. I'll be adding more in the Winter and Spring, like last year, which worked well.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Interesting. As you know, I've been pulling up Triv lately as well. But I'm not seeing the dark brownish stems this time of year. In fact, I'm seeing very little in the way of stems...mostly leaves, with some stolons and roots. It seems to be in spreading mode right now. I've been using the string test to ID it, mostly.
> 
> As far as grass seed, I think some of my October planted seed may have died in a couple areas. I'll be adding more in the Winter and Spring, like last year, which worked well.


I noticed the new poa trivialis crop appearing in early Sep about three weeks before I overseeded with desirable grass seed. The soil temps in early Sep were in the high 70sF. In the latter part of Aug the air Hi/Low temps had dipped down from the 90sF to 80F/60F with a little bit of rain showers. I guess the conditions became suitable enough for an environmental wake up call to get the poa t growing again.

I just emailed the Va Tech extension office and asked if they could provide the exact scientific name for the "string of beads" rough bluegrass biotype identified in the plant specimen report they sent me in Jun.


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## Chris LI

Powhatan said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. As you know, I've been pulling up Triv lately as well. But I'm not seeing the dark brownish stems this time of year. In fact, I'm seeing very little in the way of stems...mostly leaves, with some stolons and roots. It seems to be in spreading mode right now. I've been using the string test to ID it, mostly.
> 
> As far as grass seed, I think some of my October planted seed may have died in a couple areas. I'll be adding more in the Winter and Spring, like last year, which worked well.
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed the new poa trivialis crop appearing in early Sep about three weeks before I overseeded with desirable grass seed. The soil temps in early Sep were in the high 70sF. In the latter part of Aug the air Hi/Low temps had dipped down from the 90sF to 80F/60F with a little bit of rain showers. I guess the conditions became suitable enough for an environmental wake up call to get the poa t growing again.
> 
> I just emailed the Va Tech extension office and asked if they could provide the exact scientific name for the "string of beads" rough bluegrass biotype identified in the plant specimen report they sent me in Jun.
Click to expand...

That awful triv came back with a vengeance this fall. It would have a better NTEP rating for turfgrass quality than the surrounding turf, because it looks better. It reminds me of the goats who have a defense mechanism in which they scream, fall over and pass out. A little bit later, they pop up and get back to work. I see the parallel to the triv looking like it craps out in the summer, when it hits dormancy, and recharges and dominates in the fall.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some orchardgrass, poa trivialis, and other.

This patch I noticed being lighter green with no dark stems, but has the "string of beads". Appeared to be poa trivialis to me so I pulled it up.



A bigger patch with the same "string of beads".



Another lighter green with basal rosette, probably a weed. I've seen these before this size but it was early in the year. If I'm not mistaken, I believe these turned into the larger poa trivialis with seed heads.



Below pic taken earlier this year in Apr. Poa trivialis with seed heads. A lot of us thought they were junglerice weeds. The plant sample I submitted to Va Tech confirmed it was poa trivialis (Rough Bluegrass).


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> Hand-pulled some orchardgrass, poa trivialis, and other.
> 
> This patch I noticed being lighter green with no dark stems, but has the "string of beads". Appeared to be poa trivialis to me so I pulled it up.
> 
> 
> 
> A bigger patch with the same "string of beads".


Dang, those are some thick stolons. Other than their thickness and shape, that is what most of my Triv currently looks like. I think the "beads" (actually, the spaces between them) are nodes, where new roots or stems can grow from. The stolons on mine do have some nodes, but they're much smaller and don't really indent like that...I don't notice them unless I'm looking for them, and they sometimes have root fiber(s) attached to them, I believe.


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## Powhatan

Still have some leaves to come down, mainly oaks.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some more orchardgrass, poa trivialis, and other. Pushed down mole tunnels starting to appear near the edge of the lawn. The wind is blowing down lots of leaves, no use mulching today.


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## Powhatan

Air temp and soil temp both 49F. Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.25". Not much top growth cut, mostly leaves. With so much leaves that fell recently I had to make several passes to get the leaves small enough to drop below canopy. Almost daily during the evenings deer been eating grass in the back yard. I've seen the opossum in the the front yard where the mole tunnels are, hope he gets that tunneler.


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## Powhatan

Been looking for one of these to appear. Definitely a poa weed, suspect poa annua.



Composter not quite fully cooked. Amazing how much organics cooked down to. This container was over half full about six months ago.


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## Powhatan

Air temp 41F and soil temp 47F with some light rain this morning. Not much top growth overall except KY-31, they are ~3.75" from Friday's HOC 3.25". Lot's of green color still.


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## Powhatan

Checked temps at sunrise this morning. Air 25F and soil 39F @ 2" depth. Not much top growth or new fallen trees leaves this past week. I may just blow off the fallen leaves instead of mulch mowing them. Deer are eating more frequently in the back yard and now in the front yard. They don't seem to be eating the endophyte infected KY-31 yet, just the NoMix varieties and clover - nature is performing the last mow of the season for me.


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## Chris LI

That's a cool, frosty photo. Color still looks great!


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## Powhatan

Chris LI said:


> That's a cool, frosty photo. Color still looks great!


Yep, it was a bit nippy. The weather is bouncing around again. High 70F this Tuesday, then Friday low 38F with a chance of snow.


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## Powhatan

There's was enough fallen leaves on the lawn so I decided to mulch them with the riding rotary mower. Not much leaves left on the trees so that was probably the last mulch mow of the year.


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## Powhatan

Visual thermometer says "COLD" this morning.


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## Stuofsci02

Ha... our definitions of cold are quite different...


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## Powhatan

Stuofsci02 said:


> Ha... our definitions of cold are quite different...


You're right, it's all relative. So no, Virginia doesn't get as "cold" as other places.

Forty years ago I lived and worked for several years in Alaska, up and down the whole Aleutian island chain, the Bering Sea, and southern Arctic Ocean. You could say it got "cold" there.


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> Blades look thin enough, I'm thinking that's a creeping red fescue amongst the KY-31.


I would agree, some of that probably is. Seems to have the distinct FF look. Those plants will also tend to get bigger over time, faster than the KY-31, due to higher rhizome numbers.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blades look thin enough, I'm thinking that's a creeping red fescue amongst the KY-31.
> 
> 
> 
> I would agree, some of that probably is. Seems to have the distinct FF look. Those plants will also tend to get bigger over time, faster than the KY-31, due to higher rhizome numbers.
Click to expand...

Thanks @Green


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## Powhatan

It's been a typical late Fall, air temps bouncing between 50sF and 20sF, soil temp now is 48F.

Apparent nil top growth, overall still holding decent green color. Clover seems to be still spreading, a little seed goes a long way. Beech tree leaves are brown color and staying (marcescence) on the tree per normal.


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## Powhatan

Four-leaf clover :yahoo: Here's to good luck for the coming growing season :beer:


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## Powhatan

Air temp this morning 22F, soil temp near house 36.1F and away from house the top surface of soil was frozen.

Emptied composter, placed finished compost on flower bed. Blew off some large fallen leaves. Lots of deer and rabbit "fertilizer" pellets on the lawn. Hand-pulled some poa trivialis. I need to cut down two dead oak trees next month.

These lime green clumps located on the shadier side of house looked like poa trivialis so I pulled them.


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## Powhatan

Weather forecast for rest of this year has no snow and the temps will be about the same as today. Air temps 50s/20sF, soil temp 36F.


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## Powhatan

Short sleeve weather, high air temp 64F today and 72F tomorrow, very similar to last year. Soil temp is 49F. Hand-pulled some small weed clumps poa annua and poa trivialis.


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> Edit: I spot checked some of the lighter green grass and it appears to be PRG confirming against ID pics/characteristics.


I have seen light green PR as well. Like anything else, it varies. But it kind of gets you concerned, because from a distance you think it might be Triv.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I spot checked some of the lighter green grass and it appears to be PRG confirming against ID pics/characteristics.
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen light green PR as well. Like anything else, it varies. But it kind of gets you concerned, because from a distance you think it might be Triv.
Click to expand...

The lighter larger green patches I'm seeing now are growing slightly taller than the surrounding darker colored grass, at this point I'm not sure what to make of those light green patches. The single light green clumps that look like weeds I'm pulling those. The ones in the damp shade near the house are definitely poa trivialis.


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## Green

@Powhatan, as usual you want to check for veins to see if it's PR. Sounds like you've already ruled out TF and FF (which also have veins).


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