# j4c11 Reno - Get the best lawn on the block with this one weird trick



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Kill it and start over :lol:


----------



## Khy (Jul 27, 2018)

Am I missing something here?


----------



## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)




----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Too early in the season for green dye.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Is this the most click-baity title in the history of TLF? :lol:

It's not snake oil, it's glyphosate. Alas, we say goodbye to our old friend Turf Blue HGT, and hello to a new challenge - the Transition Zone Midnight Monostand (TZMM for short, pronounced tazam).

Seed down hopefully this weekend.


----------



## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> Is this the most click-baity title in the history of TLF? :lol:
> 
> It's not snake oil, it's glyphosate. Alas, we say goodbye to our old friend Turf Blue HGT, and hello to a new challenge - the Transition Zone Midnight Monostand (TZMM for short, pronounced tazam).
> 
> Seed down hopefully this weekend.


Good luck! I was hoping it was snake oil though


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> Alas, we say goodbye to our old friend Turf Blue HGT, and hello to a new challenge - the Transition Zone Midnight Monostand (TZMM for short, pronounced tazam).


Where is my applause smiley?
I can't wait!
A midnight mono is on my short-list as well.


----------



## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

why kill it? It looks great


----------



## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

john5246 said:


> why kill it? It looks great


Serial renovator. It's like a disease.


----------



## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

"lawn companies hate him"


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

john5246 said:


> "lawn companies hate him"


 :lol: even more when they see that midnight coming up in the great state of NC


----------



## Kaba (Mar 29, 2019)

:lol: You're a terrible person, I totally bit the bait hahaha. Good job!


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

john5246 said:


> "lawn companies hate him"


The water company loves him.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Seed down today. Usual process - scalp, bag, scalp, bag, dethatch, bag, dethatch, bag, dethatch, bag , popiconazole + azoxystrobin, Tenacity, spread seed.

Now we wait. Looks like high 80s and cloudy next week, so great conditions for (relatively) fast germination. Of course they can hardly get tomorrow's weather right so who knows.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@j4c11 prodiamine?


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

g-man said:


> @j4c11 prodiamine?


Sorry I meant propiconazole. Fixed it. Thanks for catching that.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Sprinkler timer decided to randomly reset itself today while I was at work. All the schedules were wiped out and the seed was not watered all day in 90+ degree heat.

I replaced the batteries and hopefully it goes better tomorrow. I think I'm early enough in the renovation that it should be ok.


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> Sprinkler timer decided to randomly reset itself today while I was at work. All the schedules were wiped out and the seed was not watered all day in 90+ degree heat.
> 
> I replaced the batteries and hopefully it goes better tomorrow. I think I'm early enough in the renovation that it should be ok.


I'm curious to know what it is that made you land on Midnight. There are a number of options that might do well in the t'zone; so why Midnight? :mrgreen:


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

social port said:


> I'm curious to know what it is that made you land on Midnight. There are a number of options that might do well in the t'zone; so why Midnight? :mrgreen:


After a few years of trying out HGT, my goals for this renovation were :

- Great color first and foremost
- Kentucky Bluegrass for spreading and dormancy recovery
- Monostand for uniformity 
- Good drought tolerance and dormancy recovery

I've been testing Midnight in a small area of my yard for a couple years now. It has done as well as HGT, and the color is much much better. Midnight also consistently does very well in NTEP tests in NC. I considered a Mazama monostand, but decided for Midnight because the seed is widely available, cheap, and having been around for a long time I have some confidence it's not going to just disappear off the market in a few years and leave me stranded. I considered a mix with Mazama, but in the end I decided I want a perfectly uniform lawn.


----------



## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

:thumbup: I will be following this thread and any others related to the reno. Thanks for the fun intro.


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious to know what it is that made you land on Midnight. There are a number of options that might do well in the t'zone; so why Midnight? :mrgreen:
> ...


 :thumbup: I also prioritize color -- above all else. I'm really interested to see this thing unfold over the next year.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Starting to see germination at day 6. Just here and there, maybe 5%, but nice to see little green shoots poking up.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Pics or it didn't happen.







In reviewing the picture it looks like more germination than I saw just with the naked eye.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Found 3 small mounds of seed this evening. Looks like the ants have been busy gathering up the seed off the lawn, making piles, and are now hauling the seed from the piles to their winter food store. Industrious little creatures.


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> Looks like the ants have been busy gathering up the seed off the lawn





j4c11 said:


> Industrious little creatures


If you are trying to grow Midnight, that is just wrong, industrious or not. :lol:


----------



## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

I've been waiting for this thread.  I think you were the inspiration for a KBG push further south for a few folks (well, at least for me). Looking forward to seeing how Midnight fares through dormancy. Are you still planning to push PGR? Or you think you'll get enough color without? Also, have to say, seeing this had me going to back to the latest NTEP data and I just noticed Jacklin's "After Midnight." I don't see too many references to it outside of NTEP data at this point, but it also looks very interesting.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

vnephologist said:


> I've been waiting for this thread.  I think you were the inspiration for a KBG push further south for a few folks (well, at least for me). Looking forward to seeing how Midnight fares through dormancy. Are you still planning to push PGR? Or you think you'll get enough color without? Also, have to say, seeing this had me going to back to the latest NTEP data and I just noticed Jacklin's "After Midnight." I don't see too many references to it outside of NTEP data at this point, but it also looks very interesting.


Being this is the first year I won't let it go dormant next summer, maybe the following year. I applied PGR to my test Midnight plot and it takes on a dark blue hue, it's absolutely amazing - all of sudden the name Midnight seemed so appropriate. I definitely intend to apply PGR next spring and through summer for enhanced color and for increased drought tolerance. For this fall though I'm just going to let it be, just give it plenty of N and let it mature a little.

Germination is looking good thus far. It even germinated on the curb where some landed- yes, right on top of cement. I think I got the water dialed in just right, and the temps in the 90s helped. Going to wait until Saturday to see if any spots need more seed.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Update at 2 weeks. I think the 90s heat is slowing down growth some. Germination has been good, pretty even with no bare spots thus far, except one area which was iffy to start with being at the far edge of sprinkler coverage. Though from the pictures it may look like there's bare areas, there's grass there, it's just very young.

Applied a little bit of urea and potassium sulphate since I only put down phosphorus at seed down.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

45 day update. Some yellow patches from herbicide(sulfentrazone), but recovering. Mulch ring around tree needs cleanup, grass sprouted all over the mulch.


----------



## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Wow! That is some serious color!! You wanted color and uniformity first and foremost and you got it :thumbsup:


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Good grief!!!!


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

pennstater2005 said:


> Wow! That is some serious color!! You wanted color and uniformity first and foremost and you got it :thumbsup:


Yeah it's (mid)night and day vs HGT. Granted I'm pushing some serious urea urea right now. I expect it to peak mid November (if it survives the Halloween trampling from little feet) :thumbup:


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Another update, most of the herbicide yellowing is gone. Have some small sparse areas that will just have to fill in. Lost a bit of color as the temps have stayed in the high 70s and grass is growing really fast "stretching out" the chlorophyll. Might slow it down some with PGR. Sprayed the mulch areas with glyph, waiting for all that to die so I can apply fresh mulch. Applied potassium nitrate.

Overall, at day 50, I'm ready to call this one a success. I'm going to keep it at 2"-2.5" through next spring and prepare for the summer battle.

Debating whether to take down the "do not step on lawn" sign, or just leave it there permanently :lol:


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@j4c11 that color looks like a mature lawn. Awesome.


----------



## MassHole (Jun 27, 2018)

What was the sulfentrazone for?


----------



## SJ Lawn (May 7, 2018)

j4c11 said:


> Another update, most of the herbicide yellowing is gone. Have some small sparse areas that will just have to fill in. Lost a bit of color as the temps have stayed in the high 70s and grass is growing really fast "stretching out" the chlorophyll. Might slow it down some with PGR. Sprayed the mulch areas with glyph, waiting for all that to die so I can apply fresh mulch. Applied potassium nitrate.
> 
> Overall, at day 50, I'm ready to call this one a success. I'm going to keep it at 2"-2.5" through next spring and prepare for the summer battle.
> 
> Debating whether to take down the "do not step on lawn" sign, or just leave it there permanently :lol:


Beautiful results !! What was your seeding rate ? Any peat moss on top ? Did you roll ?

Keep the updates coming !


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

MassHole said:


> What was the sulfentrazone for?


Nutsedge. Due to the frequent watering and heat I got some very healthy clumps that started to shade and crowd the seedlings underneath. The bluegrass stood no chance. I've seen this enough times that I knew I'd end up with bald patches once the cool weather arrived, so I decided to roll the dice and spray so I would at least have time to drop more seed if need be. It injured the bluegrass pretty good, probably set it back 10 days, but it worked out in the end.



SJ Lawn said:


> Beautiful results !! What was your seeding rate ? Any peat moss on top ? Did you roll ?
> 
> Keep the updates coming !


Thank you! I seeded at about 4 lb per thousand. I use a little more seed than recommended to account for heat, damage from various creatures, uneven water coverage, mechanical damage from mowing, and unforeseen circumstances. The seed was not covered, it was not rolled, it was simply spread on well exposed soil and watered. In previous years I found that KBG seed germinates better on the surface exposed to the light than covered.


----------



## TimmyTurf (Oct 10, 2019)

Amazing stuff! Greenest green ive ever seen. No sign of thatch anywhere. Super impressive for being so young.


----------



## ArtOfWar626 (Oct 31, 2019)

Overall great thread! That Intro had me! lol

I'd say your reno was an overall success. Your lawn looks great!


----------



## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Wow! I would change that sign out for two different signs:

"Get Off My Lawn" (My kids used to do impressions of me saying this, in an old man voice.)

"Sod Companies-Don't Even Think About It!"

Really nice work! I see you still have the patches of sod in the mulch bed. I hope you are leaving it over the winter for a sod farm for a Pro Plugger, for any bad spots in the spring. :nod:


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Spring update, the grass is taking off. I lowered the hoc to 2" and I plan on keeping it here, I like it, it looks neat. Will start PGR (and fungicide) next week to pre-condition before the summer heat. Still have a few spots where the grass is a little sparse, but the lower hoc makes it far less noticeable. Just going to let the bluegrass do its thing and fill in. For a newly seeded lawn I'm pretty content with the results. Now the hard part begins, getting it through summer.


----------



## JERSEY (Sep 9, 2018)

j4c11 said:


> Another update, most of the herbicide yellowing is gone. Have some small sparse areas that will just have to fill in. Lost a bit of color as the temps have stayed in the high 70s and grass is growing really fast "stretching out" the chlorophyll. Might slow it down some with PGR. Sprayed the mulch areas with glyph, waiting for all that to die so I can apply fresh mulch. Applied potassium nitrate.
> 
> Overall, at day 50, I'm ready to call this one a success. I'm going to keep it at 2"-2.5" through next spring and prepare for the summer battle.
> 
> Debating whether to take down the "do not step on lawn" sign, or just leave it there permanently :lol:


you did a great job.
that midnight is real nice
congrads.

hard to beat kyb @ 2.0-3.0 inchs LOVE IT


----------



## jprez (Oct 25, 2019)

That is is some beautiful green grass. You make this renovation thing sound easy. I might try my hand at it. Thanks for posting.


----------



## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

Looking fantastic @j4c11.


----------



## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

@j4c11 I renovated with Turf Blue in the fall and read some of your posts before doing so. How did you like it overall? Did you have it in any shady areas? If so, how was performance there? Thanks and good luck with the Midnight!


----------



## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

Tip: Learn what to do and spend lots of time on it yourself.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Captquin said:


> @j4c11 I renovated with Turf Blue in the fall and read some of your posts before doing so. How did you like it overall? Did you have it in any shady areas? If so, how was performance there? Thanks and good luck with the Midnight!


Overall Turf Blue is excellent grass. It forms a thick carpet-like lawn, is disease free, and self-repairs quickly. Its only flaw is that it's a lighter compared with other bluegrasses, but if you're ok with that you can't beat it. One of the cultivars in the mix puts out these lime-green shoots in early spring, almost as light as Poa T, and it irked me to no end. It does darken by about mid-May.

Barvette is one of the top performing cultivars in shade trials, if not the very top, I don't recall. I still have Turf Blue in my back yard where it's shaded (2-3 hours of direct sun), and it performs very well. I kept Turf Blue there because there's a dog running around, so between its excellent shade tolerance and fast self-repair, Turf Blue is the best fit.


----------



## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

Two dogs and two kids. Outstanding to hear!


----------



## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Bravo man looks beautiful.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

May update. Now spraying PGR and fungicide twice a month. Untreated areas of Midnight elsewhere in my yard are getting hit hard with rust, no trace of rust in the treated areas. Spoon feeding N to maintain color in the form of potassium nitrate. I'm seeing certain spots dry out and go into drought stress pretty quickly even after rain, so those will be a challenge through summer. Plan on applying Lesco Moisture Control soon to hopefully remedy that to some extent. Continuing to mow at 2" and seeing good spreading as a result.

@mod would you mind moving to lawn journal, I plan on continuing to post updates.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

End of May update. It's been raining for two weeks so haven't been able to spray PGR in time. Rolling with genetic color, which is pretty nice. Weekly apps of azoxystrobin resolved some yellowing patches nicely. Midnight FTW.



Blades are pretty sharp, but I haven't been able to cut due to rain, so it got pretty long. bogged down the mower a bit resulting in less than stellar cut. Hopefully I can clean it up next cut. 


Continuing to apply urea at spoon feeding levels. So far so good. Sprayed Hydretain Plus couple of weeks ago to help with water penetration and hopefully buy a few more days of drought tolerance. PGR app tomorrow.


----------



## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

That's some nice density. Midnight is looking fantastic. If it wasn't for you i wouldn't have done my kbg reno in st louis fall of 2017. Props dude. I absolutely love kbg.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=447


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Mid-June update. The summer struggles have begun.


----------



## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Here we go again!

This summer's crusade against bermuda with triclopy and pylex has produced significant collateral damage. There was probably enough to recover on its own by spreading, but I wanted to speed things along and hey, fretting over little seedlings is the best part of lawn care. Time for a bluegrass overseed!

8 days post seed down. Had sufficient Midnight seed left over from last year. A good portion of the green here is from the new seed.


----------



## Pezking7p (May 23, 2020)

Wow. Good luck. It was looking stellar.

Your neighbor must hate you for how bad you make them look.


----------

