# Iriasj2009 Renovation



## Iriasj2009

I will start killing my Bermuda this weekend with 2 rounds of roundup 10-14 days apart and will be seeding PRG for the winter. 1st or 2nd week of May, I will spray round up and rent a sod cutter to remove the turf. Will be laying Tifgrand Bermuda right after.

Planning on mowing the rye between .5"-.75" as long as I can keep up with the mowing. Rye grass grows so fast. 
I will be needing guidance and recommendations.

I will be posting a lot of pics!

I was maintaining at .4" but I stopped mowing week ago and fertilized it heavy to really get her growing right before the kill.

PS. House is getting a makeover as well.


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## Ware

Looks good - only a member of TLF would kill a 99th percentile lawn. :lol:

I am overseeding PRG in my back yard this year, and hope to maintain in the 5/8 - 3/4" range. Depending on the weather, I hope to get that project going within the next couple of weeks.

I'm excited to follow your progress! :thumbup:


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## Redtenchu

Excited for you Iriasj!


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## Iriasj2009

Ware said:


> Looks good - only a member of TLF would kill a 99th percentile lawn. :lol:
> 
> I am overseeding PRG in my back yard this year, and hope to maintain in the 5/8 - 3/4" range. Depending on the weather, I hope to get that project going within the next couple of weeks.
> 
> I'm excited to follow your progress! :thumbup:


We will never have the perfect lawn at least In our eyes, but it doesnt mean we can stop trying haha. Im sure me and all the members on here are anxious to see how your backyard winter project turns out! Looks like I'll be overseeding late October.


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## Iriasj2009

Redtenchu said:


> Excited for you Iriasj!


Thanks but honestly I wish I didn't have to start over. I think the celebration would have eventually took over but that process could of taken several years. Perennial rye grass is a beautiful grass but given the shorter days and renovation itself, I'm not as excited for the project. I feel I've been renovating the last couple years and im now ready to just mow and maintain lol. I'm expecting a great rye lawn tho


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## Guest

Looking forward to following this. I've been interest in tifgrand and tiftuf for awhile. I'm curious to see how you like this. The celebration you have is beautiful.


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## Iriasj2009

firefighter11 said:


> Looking forward to following this. I've been interest in tifgrand and tiftuf for awhile. I'm curious to see how you like this. The celebration you have is beautiful.


Thank you firefighter. Celebration gets super dark in color once it gets above 1/2" and I would highly recommend it. Im also curious on how the tifgrand will perform


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## Guest

I know from reading they celebration does well or better than other Bermuda's in shade. Do you have any comment on that? Seems tifgrand is suppose to do well there too.


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## pennstater2005

Ware said:


> Looks good - only a member of TLF would kill a 99th percentile lawn. :lol:
> 
> I am overseeding PRG in my back yard this year, and hope to maintain in the 5/8 - 3/4" range. Depending on the weather, I hope to get that project going within the next couple of weeks.
> 
> I'm excited to follow your progress! :thumbup:


I was thinking "why would you take a picture of your lawn from so far away"? Good luck and I you could probably rent a sod cutter and sell off your existing lawn :lol:


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## Iriasj2009

firefighter11 said:


> I know from reading they celebration does well or better than other Bermuda's in shade. Do you have any comment on that? Seems tifgrand is suppose to do well there too.


I'll eventually give my review on how the tifgrand holds up in the shade vs celebration. 
Celebration does exceptionally well but with 2 conditions, it needs at least 4 hours of CONTINUOUS sunlight and needs to be mowed no less than .75" but it looks best at 1". I have a few spots that I tried to mow it below .5" and it was struggling. Right now I stopped mowing and my shady areas are about 1"-1.5" tall and it looks great. Not super dense up close but it looks full. I'll take some pics tomorrow. Here a pic of a shady area taken earlier this summer.


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## Iriasj2009

pennstater2005 said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks good - only a member of TLF would kill a 99th percentile lawn. :lol:
> 
> I am overseeding PRG in my back yard this year, and hope to maintain in the 5/8 - 3/4" range. Depending on the weather, I hope to get that project going within the next couple of weeks.
> 
> I'm excited to follow your progress! :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking "why would you take a picture of your lawn from so far away"? Good luck and I you could probably rent a sod cutter and sell off your existing lawn :lol:
Click to expand...

Lol Thanks! I just got done talking to my neighbor and he was like "dont kill, instead, put it in my backyard".


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## Iriasj2009

My wife being silly, I'm glad that we liked the color of the house. Trim, windows, shutters, should be completed tomorrow. I was able to get home early enough to catch the sun hitting the lawn. It's about .75"-1". It's the greenest it's looked all year.


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## Iriasj2009

This morning I spot sprayed most of the sedge that broke out. Tomorrow is the big day. I will use a combination of round up+fusilade+surfactant to begin the killing process. I'm sure all my neighbors will be nodding their heads again and thinking, what's is he up to now... then my wife was trying to talk me into keeping what i currently have lol.

I might have to drag all that brush to an empty lot down the street if the city doesn't pick it up within a month. Because of hurricane Harvey, they are backed up. I had called before dragging all that to the yard and was told that they were on schedule but apparently they are not. Just for anyone wondering lol


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## scarlso2

Wow the house and the grass look great! Can't wait to see the results


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## J_nick

Good luck man :shocked:


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## Iriasj2009

Playing with the morning dew right before I put her to sleep. There's no turning back now


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## Iriasj2009

J_nick said:


> Good luck man :shocked:


Thanks man!


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## Iriasj2009

8days post spray. Mowed down to .5" on Wednesday/Thursday. I will be setting the groomer down to .10" and HOC to .25" and will give that a try. Then I will fertilize and water it well for the next 2 weeks.


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## Iriasj2009




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## J_nick

Man that looks like crap :lol:


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## Spammage

Looking good (except for the over spray on the neighbors St Augustine  ). Can't wait to see how this turns out for you next year.


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## Iriasj2009

J_nick said:


> Man that looks like crap :lol:


Haha I almost bought some green lawn paint :lol:


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## Iriasj2009

Spammage said:


> Looking good (except for the over spray on the neighbors St Augustine  ). Can't wait to see how this turns out for you next year.


Thanks! And Yea, whoops, it will recover before he even notices. I'm actually going to help him get his st Augustine in shape next year. He already fired tru green :lol:


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## Colonel K0rn

You know you've arrived when you dead lawn looks better than the neighbor's live lawn.


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## Iriasj2009

Colonel K0rn said:


> You know you've arrived when you dead lawn looks better than the neighbor's live lawn.


Lol Thanks colonel, I also see a lot of progress on your Reno too! Next year will be a big year for you


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## Iriasj2009

Spammage said:


> Looking good (except for the over spray on the neighbors St Augustine  ). Can't wait to see how this turns out for you next year.


After looking at the pictures, I noticed that what is shown is actually my neighbors sod webworms having a feast. I was careful when spraying as not to overspray much. Either way overspraying was inevitable and my neighbor was aware of what I'm doing.

Anywho, seed is down! 
Wednesday- sprayed glypho.
Friday-mowed @ .33" and verticut one way. Cleaned up and spread about 7lbs of seed.
Sunday- spread another 20lbs of seed.

Plan was to seed on Friday at full rate but we had heavy rain in the forecast Friday-Sunday. So I decided to throw out some seed and wait for the rain and finish up the job once the rain changes passed by. Really Heavy rain Sunday morning.


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## Iriasj2009




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## pennstater2005

Good prep work there. That really is like 90% of it, isn't it? Worth it though. It looks like a nice seed bed. Good job :thumbup: Keep the pics coming!


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## Iriasj2009

pennstater2005 said:


> Good prep work there. That really is like 90% of it, isn't it? Worth it though. It looks like a nice seed bed. Good job :thumbup: Keep the pics coming!


Thank you. I haven't fertilized and I'm planning in doing so a week after it comes up with a balanced fert. Pics were taken Friday morning before I went out of town. I wanted to verticut in 2 dierections but I ran out of time, but one direction will suffice. More pics coming soon. .


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## Iriasj2009

Gotta work on my straight lines. Currently mowed at 1.10". A bit thin but should thicken up.


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## Mightyquinn

Looking good Iriasj !!!!! I am definitely thinking of going this route next year, I LOVE the over seeding look!

I'm not sure if you mentioned it or not but what kind of seed(Rye grass) did you use?


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## Ware

Iriasj2009 said:


> Gotta work on my straight lines...


Ha, same here! It stripes so easy that everything shows! :thumbup:


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## Mightyquinn

Ware said:


> Iriasj2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta work on my straight lines...
> 
> 
> 
> Ha, same here! It stripes so easy that everything shows! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Both of your stripes look great to me :thumbup: But I know what both of you are saying as the camera hides some of the imperfections that us lawn nuts can see in our own lawns :lol:


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## Iriasj2009

Mightyquinn said:


> Looking good Iriasj !!!!! I am definitely thinking of going this route next year, I LOVE the over seeding look!
> 
> I'm not sure if you mentioned it or not but what kind of seed(Rye grass) did you use?


Thanks man! I bought the seed from HD, Penningtons Fairway supreme PRG. I ended up using 40#s.

It's GREAT and if you don't mind mowing all winter then go for it!


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## J_nick

Looking good man! Definitely grew a lot over the past week.


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## Redtenchu

Nice Work Iriasj!


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## wardconnor

Ware said:


> Looks good - only a member of TLF would kill a 99th percentile lawn. :lol:


I shall not mention how many times this idea has crossed my mind for my patch of happiness. Primarily in the back.


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## Iriasj2009

J_nick said:


> Looking good man! Definitely grew a lot over the past week.


Thanks!! It's not as dense as I thought it'd be by now, but it's looking better.


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## Iriasj2009

Redtenchu said:


> Nice Work Iriasj!


Thanks red!


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## Iriasj2009

wardconnor said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks good - only a member of TLF would kill a 99th percentile lawn. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> I shall not mention how many times this idea has crossed my mind for my patch of happiness. Primarily in the back.
Click to expand...

 :lol:


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## Iriasj2009

Ware said:


> Iriasj2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta work on my straight lines...
> 
> 
> 
> Ha, same here! It stripes so easy that everything shows! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Your stripes look sick especially in that video you made!


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## Iriasj2009

Fertilized 2 days ago. HOC 5/8".


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## Ware

:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cavan806

Iriasj2009 said:


> Fertilized 2 days ago. HOC 5/8".


HOLY S#^$!
That looks so good. I am sold on the winter PRG. I have so much work to do...and I cant wait to get started on it next season. Its going to be a long winter.

Cheers!


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## Iriasj2009

Cavan806 said:


> Iriasj2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fertilized 2 days ago. HOC 5/8".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HOLY S#^$!
> That looks so good. I am sold on the winter PRG. I have so much work to do...and I cant wait to get started on it next season. Its going to be a long winter.
> 
> Cheers!
Click to expand...

Thank you cavan806!
It is a beautiful grass but I'll warn you, it will keep you busy all winter too lol.


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## Iriasj2009

HOC 3/4"




























Domination shot?



















Sorry didn't blow off the clippings yet.


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## Ware

Dude, you're killing it. :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## dfw_pilot

Holy Wow!


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## Redtenchu

Dilly-Dilly!


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## Ware

Dilly Dilly!

https://youtu.be/D8Cb5Wk2t-8


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## Iriasj2009

Ware said:


> Dilly Dilly!


Lmao this is too funny, thanks you guys! I figured with all the Bermuda lawns turning brown that I could help with some lawnporn haha.


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## J_nick

Dang, looks great! I've been thinking about PRG for next year but I think I'm liking the break from mowing too much :lol:


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## Iriasj2009

J_nick said:


> Dang, looks great! I've been thinking about PRG for next year but I think I'm liking the break from mowing too much :lol:


Yea man definitely a lot of mowing, reason why I raised the HOC. I'm not sure when and if I will be using a PGR..


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## Mightyquinn

Your lawn looks amazing Iriasj!!!! Do you plan on overseeding with PRG next year with the TIfGrand? BTW, what kind of PRG seed did you use?


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## Iriasj2009

Mightyquinn said:


> Your lawn looks amazing Iriasj!!!! Do you plan on overseeding with PRG next year with the TIfGrand? BTW, what kind of PRG seed did you use?


Thanks mighty! 
I bought the seed from HD, Penningtons Fairway supreme PRG.

I'm not sure if I will be overseeding again since my growing season is so long. It's tempting but we will see. Here my Bermuda can keep its color (at least the celebration did) all the way until the first HARD frost which usually happens in January. once the temps warm up, the Bermuda comes back pretty fast.


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## ABC123

Wow.


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## SGrabs33

Looks Great!


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## Iriasj2009

SGrabs33 said:


> Looks Great!


Thank you!


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## Iriasj2009

ABC123 said:


> Wow.


 :bandit:


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## Iriasj2009

Pic from DEC 8ths snow.

I will be taking more pictures tomorrow. Weather has been gloomy and soggy since our rare snow day. It hasn't been very fun keeping up with mowing. I did mow it down to 1/4" last weekend and applied 15lbs of seed. i have also not fertilized in order to keep it tamed. Hopefully we get more sunshine. Despite the weather, I have managed to keep it at .5". Today I mowed and edged.


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## Iriasj2009

Didn't take pics yesterday as it was a bit cloudy. Sun finally broke out today. Ground is very soggy but not looking bad considering all the rain we have had. I need to FERTILIZE.


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## Ware

That's amazing. I anticipate quite a few PRG overseeding projects on TLF next year. :nod:


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## g-man

All that picture is missing is a home plate or ward's flamingos.


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## J_nick

Ware said:


> That's amazing. I anticipate quite a few PRG overseeding projects on TLF next year. :nod:


+1 looks amazing man


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## Iriasj2009

Ware said:


> That's amazing. I anticipate quite a few PRG overseeding projects on TLF next year. :nod:


More pics to look at next year haha.


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## Iriasj2009

g-man said:


> All that picture is missing is a home plate or ward's flamingos.


Haha :lol:


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## Iriasj2009

J_nick said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's amazing. I anticipate quite a few PRG overseeding projects on TLF next year. :nod:
> 
> 
> 
> +1 looks amazing man
Click to expand...

Thanks jnick!


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## Mightyquinn

Looking great as always Iriasj !!!!! Can't wait to see the TifGrand this Summer


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## Iriasj2009

Mightyquinn said:


> Looking great as always Iriasj !!!!! Can't wait to see the TifGrand this Summer


Thanks mighty, yea I hope everything goes as planned. Got a drone for Xmas so hopefully I get some nice shots and video of the transition.


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## Mightyquinn

Iriasj2009 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking great as always Iriasj !!!!! Can't wait to see the TifGrand this Summer
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks mighty, yea I hope everything goes as planned. Got a drone for Xmas so hopefully I get some nice shots and video of the transition.
Click to expand...

Can't wait!! :thumbup:


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## MrMeaner

wow!! That's friggin awesome!!


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## Iriasj2009

MrMeaner said:


> wow!! That's friggin awesome!!


 :mrgreen:


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## balistek

will you do an overseed next year considering new sod in the spring time for you. As stated many times, and well deserved. Yard looks amazing. People must be slowing down and staring that stark difference in appearance


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## Iriasj2009

balistek said:


> will you do an overseed next year considering new sod in the spring time for you. As stated many times, and well deserved. Yard looks amazing. People must be slowing down and staring that stark difference in appearance


Thank you balistek! People definitely stop by and stare haha especially when I'm the only one mowing this time of year.

I will not be overseeding at all after this season unless I change my mind later on. 
If you're asking if I'm overseeding since it would be on freshly installed Bermuda, I'm sure the Bermuda would be able to handle the overseed but I would think it would slow things down in the spring since the root system wouldn't be as mature yet.

These last couple of weeks have been rainy and cold and I honestly don't feel like mowing as much although keeping up with it has its rewards.


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## Iriasj2009

Took some footage with my new JDI Spark drone. Mowed and fertilized, it's supposed to dry out and be a lot sunnier so hopefully the PRG bounces back. Color is uneven and definitely needs all the nitrogen I gave it. I will upload aome footage as soon as I'm done editing.


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## Iriasj2009

https://youtu.be/st5AKY3iLrg


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## J_nick

Nice video man! We're gonna see some sweet videos this year


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## Redtenchu

That. Was. Awesome.


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## raldridge2315

J_nick said:


> Nice video man! We're gonna see some sweet videos this year


+1!!


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## Iriasj2009

Redtenchu said:


> That. Was. Awesome.


Just needs music


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## Iriasj2009

raldridge2315 said:


> J_nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice video man! We're gonna see some sweet videos this year
> 
> 
> 
> +1!!
Click to expand...

Thanks guys!
I hope more people get on board with posting more vids!


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## Iriasj2009

Before


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## Colonel K0rn

Wow.


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## Ware

Good stuff. Looks great!


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## Iriasj2009

So first off, thanks for all the votes everyone! it's been a while since I've posted, but Here's an update. 
I scalped/groomed the lawn down to .25" about 3-4 weeks ago. Groomer was set right at soil level. No pics but I did take a vid about a week later so I'll post that later. Since then the PRG has been struggling since its been dry. The idea is to encourage whatever Bermuda to grow which it has been.

So change in plans as to what I will be sodding with. Found out that I would have to go to San Antonio or dallas if I wanted to go with Tifgrand Bermuda. So I decided to just go with Latitude 36.

I'm planning on spraying the lawn with a roundup/fusilade mix next weekend, wait 4 weeks and spray whatever survives before i use a sod cutter set at 2" deep.

Here what looks like today.


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## gijoe4500

I'm surprised you can't get tifgrand in Houston. A lot of the sod farms are out that way near Bay City.

Did you try King Ranch Turf Grass? They have a Katy location. Their site isn't loading on my phone though so I can't check.


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## Iriasj2009

I lost all of my palm trees due to all the freezes/snow/freezing rain this winter so I will be pulling those out next week. The side strip will be sprayed out too. I also started leveling/plugging/sprigging a section of the sidestrip where it gets a lot of shade with zoysia. It should blend in well with the latitude.


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## gijoe4500

gijoe4500 said:


> I'm surprised you can't get tifgrand in Houston. A lot of the sod farms are out that way near Bay City.
> 
> Did you try King Ranch Turf Grass? They have a Katy location. Their site isn't loading on my phone though so I can't check.


Got it to load. King Ranch Turf Grass does have tifgrand. So that option might not be out for you


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## Iriasj2009

gijoe4500 said:


> I'm surprised you can't get tifgrand in Houston. A lot of the sod farms are out that way near Bay City.
> 
> Did you try King Ranch Turf Grass? They have a Katy location. Their site isn't loading on my phone though so I can't check.


I was told by king ranch that they would charge me an expensive freight fee to just bring it to their location in Katy. I cant remember if the number for champion turf was even good. I called about a month ago and can't remember all the details but basically it seemed that I would have to go to San Antonio or dallas area to get tifgrand. Maybe I missed something, but I kinda gave up and decided to go with latitude. I guess I will try again tomorrow.


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## Colonel K0rn

One thing you could consider is the cost of just renting a U-Haul and motoring it to your own home? Have someone with a forklift offload it for you. Remember, they're going to make money off of you one way or another. Sorry to hear about the palm trees, and I was thinking, "Man, he's going to have another new lawn!"


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## Iriasj2009

gijoe4500 said:


> gijoe4500 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised you can't get tifgrand in Houston. A lot of the sod farms are out that way near Bay City.
> 
> Did you try King Ranch Turf Grass? They have a Katy location. Their site isn't loading on my phone though so I can't check.
> 
> 
> 
> Got it to load. King Ranch Turf Grass does have tifgrand. So that option might not be out for you
Click to expand...

Okay now I remember, king ranchs website has it listed BUT after talking to one of the reps, they told about a freight charge. Basically that I would have to pay for them to get it shipped to their location or mine. I have a truck and trailer so I don't want to pay for any shipping.


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## Iriasj2009

gijoe4500 said:


> gijoe4500 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised you can't get tifgrand in Houston. A lot of the sod farms are out that way near Bay City.
> 
> Did you try King Ranch Turf Grass? They have a Katy location. Their site isn't loading on my phone though so I can't check.
> 
> 
> 
> Got it to load. King Ranch Turf Grass does have tifgrand. So that option might not be out for you
Click to expand...

I'll confirm tomorrow but why would they charge me a freight charge to get it to their location?!!


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## Iriasj2009

Colonel K0rn said:


> One thing you could consider is the cost of just renting a U-Haul and motoring it to your own home? Have someone with a forklift offload it for you. Remember, they're going to make money off of you one way or another. Sorry to hear about the palm trees, and I was thinking, "Man, he's going to have another new lawn!"


That was my initial plan but after calling, I was told that they were going to charge me a frieght charge just to get it to their location?!!

Yea man it's a bummer that they didn't make it but o well.


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## Iriasj2009

Gijoe, colonel, 
Thanks for the tips, I will call around tomorrow and find out exactly who has it and how much for me to pick it up. I just remember not finding anywhere/anyone that I could just pay for the sod it self without any shipping/freight charges and without going all the way to San Antonio or dallas area. Tifgrand.com was the only website I found that listed all the growers. If I can pick it up in bay city I will, but I haven't found a number that I can call. I believe the one listed in the tifgrand website either doesn't work or was told that they didn't grow it.


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## Spammage

Irias, Turfgrass Producers of Texas is showing only these two farms for Tifgrand in Texas:

Quality Turf Farms	(800) 392-2010
2-1 Turf, LLC.	(254) 893-2121

2-1 is in DeLeon (North Central Tx, SW of Fort Worth) and Quality is in West Columbia which looks to be maybe about an hour South of you.


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## Iriasj2009

Spammage said:


> Irias, Turfgrass Producers of Texas is showing only these two farms for Tifgrand in Texas:
> 
> Quality Turf Farms	(800) 392-2010
> 2-1 Turf, LLC.	(254) 893-2121
> 
> 2-1 is in DeLeon (North Central Tx, SW of Fort Worth) and Quality is in West Columbia which looks to be maybe about an hour South of you.


Thanks spammage, seems like quality should be my best option. I can't remember if I called them or not but I will be calling them ina bit.


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## Redtenchu

Iriasj2009 said:


> I lost all of my palm trees due to all the freezes/snow/freezing rain this winter so I will be pulling those out next week.


That sucks, I always liked those Trees!


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## Iriasj2009

Redtenchu said:


> Iriasj2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I lost all of my palm trees due to all the freezes/snow/freezing rain this winter so I will be pulling those out next week.
> 
> 
> 
> That sucks, I always liked those Trees!
Click to expand...

Yea man it does, they were getting so big too


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## Alan

I asked about those palms last year or the year before and you mentioned that they survived then. I lost one, one of those years and lost the other one this past winter(I only had 2 queens). Mine were getting big too, but not nearly the size of yours. Bummer for sure.


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## Iriasj2009

Alan said:


> I asked about those palms last year or the year before and you mentioned that they survived then. I lost one, one of those years and lost the other one this past winter(I only had 2 queens). Mine were getting big too, but not nearly the size of yours. Bummer for sure.


I remember you asking alan, crazy that they didn't make it this year, but I wasn't expecting them to after such a cold winter.


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## mrigney

One note if you decide to go the Uhaul route (b/c that's what I did last year w/my Celebration). The wheel well on the UHaul is about 3" to narrow to fit a pallet. So I acutally had to unload the sod off the pallets at the sod farm and just pile it up loose in the back.

One other note...if you believe the weight limits on the UHaul trucks, you can probably only "safely" carry 4-5 pallets of sod (using a rough estimate of 2k pounds per pallet). Not saying I didn't push over that limit a little bit w/no issues


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## Iriasj2009

mrigney said:


> One note if you decide to go the Uhaul route (b/c that's what I did last year w/my Celebration). The wheel well on the UHaul is about 3" to narrow to fit a pallet. So I acutally had to unload the sod off the pallets at the sod farm and just pile it up loose in the back.
> 
> One other note...if you believe the weight limits on the UHaul trucks, you can probably only "safely" carry 4-5 pallets of sod (using a rough estimate of 2k pounds per pallet). Not saying I didn't push over that limit a little bit w/no issues


Thanks for the heads up Mrigney!
I will be needing 6 pallets total. 
I have a friend with an F250 and a trailer that's supposed to help me out. But that was the plan, to unload the sod pieces and make them fit lol. I'll be driving my truck up there as well to fit a pallet.
I remember picking up a pallet of tif 419 and it wasn't nearly as heavy as the celebration. My Chevy was able to handle a pallet of celebration with no issues tho.


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## Iriasj2009

Okay got it figured out.
King ranch is a no go.
Champions turf farm is a no go, they don't produce it anymore. The number on the tifgrand website is no good either. Had to go to their website to find a working number.

So I'll be driving to west Columbia to quality turf farms to pick up my tifgrand Bermuda. 
I don't know why I didn't call them up before. 
Sod date will be delayed as they won't have any ready until late may.

So tifgrand it is!!


----------



## gijoe4500

Bad ***. Glad you get to have the turf that you were wanting all along.


----------



## Spammage

Iriasj2009 said:


> So I'll be driving to west Columbia to quality turf farms to pick up my tifgrand Bermuda.
> I don't know why I didn't call them up before.
> Sod date will be delayed as they won't have any ready until late may.
> 
> So tifgrand it is!!


Glad you will be able to get what you want!


----------



## Alan

From where you live to W. Columbia won't be a bad drive at all. It sure beats a trip to SA.


----------



## J_nick

Glad you got it figured out. Pushing the date back will just ensure you get a good kill


----------



## Iriasj2009

gijoe4500 said:


> Bad @ss. Glad you get to have the turf that you were wanting all along.


Me too!! Thanks for the help!


----------



## Iriasj2009

Spammage said:


> Iriasj2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I'll be driving to west Columbia to quality turf farms to pick up my tifgrand Bermuda.
> I don't know why I didn't call them up before.
> Sod date will be delayed as they won't have any ready until late may.
> 
> So tifgrand it is!!
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you will be able to get what you want!
Click to expand...

Yep!! Thanks for the help!


----------



## Iriasj2009

Alan said:


> From where you live to W. Columbia won't be a bad drive at all. It sure beats a trip to SA.


Gps said 80 mins away!


----------



## Iriasj2009

J_nick said:


> Glad you got it figured out. Pushing the date back will just ensure you get a good kill


Yea that's what I was thinking. I'm thinking I'm still going to spray this weekend and It should give me plenty of time to see if anything survives. Brown lawn here we go lol.


----------



## Mightyquinn

Glad to hear you were able to get some TIfGrand!!! I was getting worried there as I can't wait to see a Reel Low TifGrand lawn!!!


----------



## J_nick

Iriasj2009 said:


> J_nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you got it figured out. Pushing the date back will just ensure you get a good kill
> 
> 
> 
> Yea that's what I was thinking. I'm thinking I'm still going to spray this weekend and It should give me plenty of time to see if anything survives. Brown lawn here we go lol.
Click to expand...

Let me know if you want another applications worth of Fusilade


----------



## Iriasj2009

Mightyquinn said:


> Glad to hear you were able to get some TIfGrand!!! I was getting worried there as I can't wait to see a Reel Low TifGrand lawn!!!


I had a feeling you were gonna be bummed out if I didn't use tifgrand haha.


----------



## Iriasj2009

J_nick said:


> Iriasj2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J_nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you got it figured out. Pushing the date back will just ensure you get a good kill
> 
> 
> 
> Yea that's what I was thinking. I'm thinking I'm still going to spray this weekend and It should give me plenty of time to see if anything survives. Brown lawn here we go lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me know if you want another applications worth of Fusilade
Click to expand...

Thanks man but I still have plenty :thumbup:


----------



## Iriasj2009

Sucks that I will be killing this soon...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brMZU5UHsYk


----------



## J_nick

I didn't know you still had your McLane! Nice double cut PGA style


----------



## Iriasj2009

J_nick said:


> I didn't know you still had your McLane! Nice double cut PGA style


Imagine using the greens mower there?!! That thing is a life saver.


----------



## Ware

Iriasj2009 said:


> Imagine using the greens mower there?!! That thing is a life saver.


That would be brutal.


----------



## SGrabs33

@Iriasj2009 It's a shame you lost those trees. Might be the only tree ever where you don't have to worry about roots. Grass looks great, as always.


----------



## Iriasj2009

Ware said:


> Iriasj2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine using the greens mower there?!! That thing is a life saver.
> 
> 
> 
> That would be brutal.
Click to expand...

I'll be upgrading to a swardman in the near future ha


----------



## Ware

Iriasj2009 said:


> I'll be upgrading to a swardman in the near future ha


No joke?!


----------



## Iriasj2009

SGrabs33 said:


> @Iriasj2009 It's a shame you lost those trees. Might be the only tree ever where you don't have to worry about roots. Grass looks great, as always.


Thanks man!
Yea it was disappointing but loosing a tee shrub that's in front of my house was a real bummer. I'll be replacing it too but not sure with what yet.


----------



## Iriasj2009

Ware said:


> Iriasj2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be upgrading to a swardman in the near future ha
> 
> 
> 
> No joke?!
Click to expand...

I'll be needing it for my backyard.


----------



## Iriasj2009

Not much of An update but still 3-4 weeks away from sodding. I see some Bermuda coming back. I will start watering a bit more to get it growing before spraying my last app of glypho. I did take a vid with the drone and I'll be posting that as soon as I'm done editing it.

Added some more brick edging and currently working on the flower beds and backyard.


----------



## Ware

A month had passed since your last update. I was starting to worry. &#128513;


----------



## Movingshrub

I'm planning for the same type of reno for 2019 with Tiftuf. I gathered you're using the glyphosate and fluazifop mixture. Out of curiosity, are you doing multiple apps, if so how many, and are you reapplying based on time-line or new growth?

With that all being said, the advice I got from Clemson was to hit the grass with some fast release N to spur growth after each application.

Are you using triclopyr as well? I don't think it's required - just was curious.


----------



## Iriasj2009

Ware said:


> A month had passed since your last update. I was starting to worry. 😁


Haha yea I've been busy with my backyard and flower beds. Not minding the break but the dead lawn is making pretty sick lol


----------



## Iriasj2009

Movingshrub said:


> I'm planning for the same type of reno for 2019 with Tiftuf. I gathered you're using the glyphosate and fluazifop mixture. Out of curiosity, are you doing multiple apps, if so how many, and are you reapplying based on time-line or new growth?
> 
> With that all being said, the advice I got from Clemson was to hit the grass with some fast release N to spur growth after each application.
> 
> Are you using triclopyr as well? I don't think it's required - just was curious.


Not 100%accurate on dates but here's a quick summary.

Last fall (September/October) Temps were still in 90s.

-Started feeding/ watering the lawn heavy and quit mowing 10-14 days before the kill. 
-First app of glypho/fusilade went down.
-2 weeks later I sprayed again with just glypho. 
-2 weeks later i sprayed my last app of glypho At full rate 2 days before overseeding with rye.

This spring

-Scalped the lawn down to .25" with the groomer set at ground level and used a starter fertilizer to encourage any Bermuda to grow and try to burn/thin out the PRG. 
-fertized weekly with fast realese fertilizer. 
-applied glypho/fusilade at full rate. 
-week later applied glypho to knock out the remaining green. 
-today (about two weeks later)
-planning on watering my lawn every other morning and will be throwing some starter fert 1-2-1 ratio. 
-I will be spraying my last app of glypho 2-3 days before I install the tifgrand which will be 3-4 weeks from now.
-I'm also renting a sod cutter and I will set it as low as it can go (~2.5") to remove as many rhizomes as possible.

Hope this helps!!


----------



## Movingshrub

I think the correct approach is to break it into two seasons, just like you are doing. It just stinks to have a brown lawn for that period of time. Kudos to you for the sod cutter; I am unwilling to go that route.

I keep considering applying rye as well it so that I can have green grass from October through April, then apply additional apps of glyphosate and fusillade to clean up any Bermuda the following spring. This would likely entail MSM or monument to smoke of all of the rye. I'd almost rather talk you on the phone than blowing up the forum about the details. If you're up for that, please let me know via PM.

Did you use any other herbicides for the rye removal? Did it negatively impact your timeline for Bermuda removal?


----------



## Iriasj2009

Movingshrub said:


> I think the correct approach is to break it into two seasons, just like you are doing. It just stinks to have a brown lawn for that period of time. Kudos to you for the sod cutter; I am unwilling to go that route.
> 
> I keep considering applying rye as well it so that I can have green grass from October through April, then apply additional apps of glyphosate and fusillade to clean up any Bermuda the following spring. This would likely entail MSM or monument to smoke of all of the rye. I'd almost rather talk you on the phone than blowing up the forum about the details. If you're up for that, please let me know via PM.
> 
> Did you use any other herbicides for the rye removal? Did it negatively impact your timeline for Bermuda removal?


Pmd you. 
No herbicides for the rye grass, just a very aggressive grooming and no water.


----------



## Iriasj2009

Sod removal has begun, hopefully sod goes down this weekend. I'm exhausted so I'll just share a couple of pics.


----------



## SGrabs33

@Iriasj2009 :shock:

Looking forward to the progress!


----------



## Ware

SGrabs33 said:


> ...Looking forward to the progress!


+1 :thumbup:


----------



## Movingshrub

Iriasj2009, I hope your prep work is going well!

I had some questions on your fall herbicide applications.

How did you backwards plan the herbicide apps in the fall to kill off the existing stand of bermuda? Did you start applying X number of weeks before the first frost? Base it on GDD? I imagine you want to have a complete kill but also don't want to kill it off any earlier than necessary, but also don't want to wait so late that you don't get enough applications in before the end of the season. Did you also only include fusillade in the first application in September? The rest sounded like they were just glyphosate.

Concerning the rye grass - did you put any pre-em down before or after seeding? Were you using PGR on the PRG?

What led you to use the sod cutter? Was it just for rhizome and debris removals and/or to get the new sod at the correct depth, relative to your driveway and sidewalk?

Were you concerned about the PRG impacting your Bermuda spring green up, and therefore, the spring herbicide clean up applications of glyphosate and fusillade?


----------



## pennstater2005

No wonder you're exhausted. I hung up a few ferns yesterday and called it a night :lol:


----------



## Iriasj2009

Movingshrub said:


> Iriasj2009, I hope your prep work is going well!
> 
> I had some questions on your fall herbicide applications.
> 
> How did you backwards plan the herbicide apps in the fall to kill off the existing stand of bermuda? Did you start applying X number of weeks before the first frost? Base it on GDD? I imagine you want to have a complete kill but also don't want to kill it off any earlier than necessary, but also don't want to wait so late that you don't get enough applications in before the end of the season. Did you also only include fusillade in the first application in September? The rest sounded like they were just glyphosate.
> 
> Concerning the rye grass - did you put any pre-em down before or after seeding? Were you using PGR on the PRG?
> 
> What led you to use the sod cutter? Was it just for rhizome and debris removals and/or to get the new sod at the correct depth, relative to your driveway and sidewalk?
> 
> Were you concerned about the PRG impacting your Bermuda spring green up, and therefore, the spring herbicide clean up applications of glyphosate and fusillade?


Movingshrub, as soon as I get a chance I will try to answer all of your questions. I ran into some hipcups and hopefully this will help others who are trying to do the same type of renovation.


----------



## Movingshrub

No hurry. I know you're busy with your renovation. This is what I was hoping to discuss with you on the phone but I am having a hard time juggling two kids and finding a time during daylight hours to chat, plus this way, others get to benefit from the answers.

I am very eager to see your Tifgrand lawn once established. Tifgrand was a strong contender for me when selecting a cultivar.


----------



## Guest

Good luck! I feel your pain. I've removed 1200 sq ft of sod twice now, without any machinery other than a sod cutter and a cooler full of beer. It can be challenging on the hot summer days lol


----------



## Iriasj2009

Movingshrub said:


> Iriasj2009, I hope your prep work is going well!
> 
> I had some questions on your fall herbicide applications.


1.) How did you backwards plan the herbicide apps in the fall to kill off the existing stand of bermuda? Did you start applying X number of weeks before the first frost? Base it on GDD? I imagine you want to have a complete kill but also don't want to kill it off any earlier than necessary, but also don't want to wait so late that you don't get enough applications in before the end of the season. Did you also only include fusillade in the first application in September? The rest sounded like they were just glyphosate.

My overall plan was to basically hit the Bermuda with 2 rounds of glypho in the fall and 2 in the spring.

(Sept23)First app: fusillade and glypho at full rate.
(Oct18)Second app: 5 days before overseeding, I used glypho only because I was planning on overseeding with rye. 
I definitely had no worries to achieve a complete kill since I was going to overseed in the fall, but a complete kill is not possible with just 2 rounds of herbides.

2.) Concerning the rye grass - did you put any pre-em down before or after seeding? Were you using PGR on the PRG? 
No pre-em before or after. 
No PGR either although I probably should have.

3.) What led you to use the sod cutter? Was it just for rhizome and debris removals and/or to get the new sod at the correct depth, relative to your driveway and sidewalk?
Precisely used it for the reasons you listed. I ended up using a depth of 1 inch which was disappointing. I couldn't go any deeper because I was unable to roll the sod for removal. the root system was too weak to hold the sod together. Maybe If I would have removed it while the rye grass was still alive I might have been able to go deeper.
I could have gone deeper if I would have rented a bob cat to remove all the dirt but there was just no time for that. 
1 inch deep got the majority of the mat layer off and I had a good base to work with.

4.)Were you concerned about the PRG impacting your Bermuda spring green up, and therefore, the spring herbicide clean up applications of glyphosate and fusillade?

Not at all. 
March 19, I decided to scalp the lawn down to .25" and set the groomer down to dirt in order to remove as much rye grass as possible and encourage whatever Bermuda to grow. Luckily we had very little rain or else I think the rye grass would have bounce back. Herbicides would have been applied if I need to in order to slow down the rye grass.
so this worked perfectly since it really stunted the rye grass and the Bermuda was able to start peeking its head out. I kept the lawn around .3 inches afterwards, and started pushing fast release fertilizer. The rye grass didn't like it while the Bermuda just took off.

Overall everything went as planned except for going 2.5 inches deep with the sod cutter.
If I had more time, I would've definitely used the sod cutter at 2.5 inches and rented a bobcat to remove all of the dirt.


----------



## Iriasj2009

firefighter11 said:


> Good luck! I feel your pain. I've removed 1200 sq ft of sod twice now, without any machinery other than a sod cutter and a cooler full of beer. It can be challenging on the hot summer days lol


Thanks! I didn't think It was going to be as much work as it was, but luckily I had a lot of help.


----------



## Movingshrub

Thanks for fielding my questions.

How much of the Bermuda survived the fall applications for fusillade and glyphosate?


----------



## Iriasj2009

okay sod is down!
Im pretty disappointed with the quality of the sod. it was green but they kept the tifgrand tall and leggy and 25% of the pieces looked pretty rough. im definitely calling them and complaining but I cant just go back for a refund lol. I made it work and with multiple sandings, the lawn should be nice and smooth again. 
The finish product is looking ROUGH!
I will take some pictures this evening after work. I didn't get to take as many pictures as I wanted since it was just too hot and I was just super busy trying to finish.
Next 2-3 weeks im going to just water.

Im sorry for not being so detailed like others are but feel free to PM me for questions or simply post your questions here.


----------



## Iriasj2009

Movingshrub said:


> Thanks for fielding my questions.


Feel free to give me a call at any time and I can be more clear on any of the questions that you have.

How much of the Bermuda survived the fall applications for fusillade and glyphosate?

Lets just say that within 2-3 months, I would have had a full lawn again without sodding.
Bermuda is just tough to get a complete kill. 
hopefully the 2 apps in the spring were able to kill off most of what survived.

I can say this, below 1 inch, there were almost no roots/rhyzomes/ stolons.


----------



## Iriasj2009




----------



## Guest

I think you will like the tifgrand. The color is very dark. If I was going to strictly reel cut my front I would have stuck with tifgrand. The tiftuf rolls I got from SuperSod we're in awful shape, but have recovered nicely within about two weeks.


----------



## Iriasj2009

firefighter11 said:


> I think you will like the tifgrand. The color is very dark. If I was going to strictly reel cut my front I would have stuck with tifgrand. The tiftuf rolls I got from SuperSod we're in awful shape, but have recovered nicely within about two weeks.


I think I will too, it lost its color quick. They cut the sod Friday morning but I didn't install it until sat around noon. Now I'm just watering the crap out of it and praying for some rain.


----------



## Iriasj2009

Now I just gotta finish the flower beds and the edging around the crape myrtle.

I'm hoping to have it in top shape by the end of the season. For now it's looking ROUGH.


----------



## Ware

Iriasj2009 said:


> ...I'm hoping to have it in top shape by the end of the season. For now it's looking ROUGH.


I have full confidence. :thumbup:


----------



## Spammage

Ware said:


> Iriasj2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...I'm hoping to have it in top shape by the end of the season. For now it's looking ROUGH.
> 
> 
> 
> I have full confidence. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

+1 - your early pics look good. I think that will bounce back nicely.


----------



## Thor865

Glad ya got it down! 1lb N every 2 weeks is what I did to mine and it was green in no time

Although I am surprised just by looking at the sod that it wasn't more green coming from the sod farm


----------



## Iriasj2009

Thor865 said:


> Although I am surprised just by looking at the sod that it wasn't more green coming from the sod farm


It was green when I picked it up but Definitely one of the worst sod farms I've ever been to. The guy who loaded me up basically told me that they have been having issues watering their fields. The sod was super dry. 
No big deal, I should have her In shape in no time. I will be using starter fertilizer until it's nice and rooted.


----------



## Alan

We(at least me, where I am) haven't received any decent amount of rain in at least 3 weeks..ugh!! I'm glad I'm on a well and basically have water for free.


----------



## Thor865

It was green when I picked it up but Definitely one of the worst sod farms I've ever been to. The guy who loaded me up basically told me that they have been having issues watering their fields. The sod was super dry. 
No big deal, I should have her In shape in no time. I will be using starter fertilizer until it's nice and rooted.
[/quote]

Let the competition begin!


----------



## Iriasj2009

Alan said:


> We(at least me, where I am) haven't received any decent amount of rain in at least 3 weeks..ugh!! I'm glad I'm on a well and basically have water for free.


Same here man, no rain. So my water bill is going to suck. O well.


----------



## Iriasj2009

Thor865 said:


> Let the competition begin!


IT. IS. ON.!!!!


----------



## Thor865

Iriasj2009 said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let the competition begin!
> 
> 
> 
> IT. IS. ON.!!!!
Click to expand...

Since my Tifgrand is still smothered and recovering from leveling. I need to see some green. Any updates on yours?


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Iriasj2009 said:


> Now I just gotta finish the flower beds and the edging around the crape myrtle.
> 
> I'm hoping to have it in top shape by the end of the season. For now it's looking ROUGH.


Man that sod install looks like *crap*. I hope you fired the contractor. They should have at least used a harley rake. :tease:

I know you'll have your yard looking like a champ in a few months. I'm eager to see how your sanding round goes once you get it greened up. You've definitely got the green thumb to pull this off! Nice work so far. Maybe Bud will bring you some natural irrigation, but not too much?


----------



## Iriasj2009

Thor865 said:


> Since my Tifgrand is still smothered and recovering from leveling. I need to see some green. Any updates on yours?


I will take some pics first thing in the morning.
It is greening up nicely but still a ways to go. 
Yours will be back to normal before you know it.


----------



## Iriasj2009




----------



## Thor865

Iriasj2009 said:


>


Looking good and dark green!


----------



## raymond

Looking good &#128077;&#128077; by the end of summer it should be 100% greened up and filled in


----------



## Iriasj2009

Thanks guys! Getting some rain so that should help!!


----------



## Iriasj2009

Colonel K0rn said:


> Iriasj2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now I just gotta finish the flower beds and the edging around the crape myrtle.
> 
> I'm hoping to have it in top shape by the end of the season. For now it's looking ROUGH.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man that sod install looks like *crap*. I hope you fired the contractor. They should have at least used a harley rake. :tease:
> 
> I know you'll have your yard looking like a champ in a few months. I'm eager to see how your sanding round goes once you get it greened up. You've definitely got the green thumb to pull this off! Nice work so far. Maybe Bud will bring you some natural irrigation, but not too much?
Click to expand...

Colonel, 
I somehow overlooked your comment!
Thanks, but I already fired my brother in law, sister, and my wife lol. 
I've been working so much and had so much prep work that after picking up the sod and seeing the condition of it. I really didn't care how nice it went down. Luckily I had some volunteers to help out. 
This rain has been exactly what I've needed! I don't mind if it rains for the next 2 weeks haha.


----------



## Iriasj2009

First mow at around 2"


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Hey, that's looking nice. What HOC are you shooting for to maintain once it's grown in? How long do you anticipate that will take?


----------



## Iriasj2009

Colonel K0rn said:


> Hey, that's looking nice. What HOC are you shooting for to maintain once it's grown in? How long do you anticipate that will take?


Thanks man. Actually I'm not 100% sure how long it will take. Hopefully I can get it down to .25"-.5". My growing season is longer down here. 
I'm giving it 10-14 more days to root before I start taking her down and top dress it


----------



## Iriasj2009

It's dark by the time I make it home. I'm slowly bringing the HOC down. Crabgrass everywhere but I have a lilttle treat for it.


----------



## Movingshrub

I know this will sound crazy. What about a blanket app of quinclorac?


----------



## pennstater2005

That's really greening up. I'm feeling the crabgrass pressure as well!


----------



## Thor865

Movingshrub said:


> I know this will sound crazy. What about a blanket app of quinclorac?


You sir are living on the edge.

I'm doing an app on my Tifgrand with Celsius and monument to take care of all the crabgrass and other weeds that I'm unsure of what they are.


----------



## Movingshrub

Thor865 said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know this will sound crazy. What about a blanket app of quinclorac?
> 
> 
> 
> You sir are living on the edge.
> 
> I'm doing an app on my Tifgrand with Celsius and monument to take care of all the crabgrass and other weeds that I'm unsure of what they are.
Click to expand...

Very different price point between those two apps. I was trying to think of what would take care of the crabgrass and linger in the soil as a pre-em without the root pruning impact of prodiamine or dithiopyr.

Oxadiaon smells and doesn't get rid of the crabgrass. I know monument lingers and seems to go after poa but unsure if the residual impacts grassy weeds; same uncertainty for Celsius. I know quinclorac will likely smoke the crabgrass and also has a pre/post effect.

Another option would be just Celsius with a MSO I suppose. How does monument do "young" sod?


----------



## Thor865

Movingshrub said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know this will sound crazy. What about a blanket app of quinclorac?
> 
> 
> 
> You sir are living on the edge.
> 
> I'm doing an app on my Tifgrand with Celsius and monument to take care of all the crabgrass and other weeds that I'm unsure of what they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very different price point between those two apps. I was trying to think of what would take care of the crabgrass and linger in the soil as a pre-em without the root pruning impact of prodiamine or dithiopyr.
> 
> Oxadiaon smells and doesn't get rid of the crabgrass. I know monument lingers and seems to go after poa but unsure if the residual impacts grassy weeds; same uncertainty for Celsius. I know quinclorac likely smoke the crabgrass and also has a pre/post effect.
Click to expand...

I may have to look into that then!


----------



## Iriasj2009

Movingshrub said:


> I know this will sound crazy. What about a blanket app of quinclorac?


Isn't quinclorac not recommended when temps are above 85 deg?
Currently i only have celcius and certainty at my disposal and am not planning on buying anything else.

Celcius should do the trick but it makes me nervous using it on young sod. I'm gonna test it on a small area and see how the Bermuda handles it.


----------



## Iriasj2009

pennstater2005 said:


> That's really greening up. I'm feeling the crabgrass pressure as well!


Yes it is! I'm surprised on how much crabgrass popped up. I'm even curious if it's crabgrass that was already In the sod as I'm getting everywhere and not just the seems.


----------



## Movingshrub

Iriasj2009 said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know this will sound crazy. What about a blanket app of quinclorac?
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't quinclorac not recommended when temps are above 85 deg?
> Currently i only have celcius and certainty at my disposal and am not planning on buying anything else.
> 
> Celcius should do the trick but it makes me nervous using it on young sod. I'm gonna test it on a small area and see how the Bermuda handles it.
Click to expand...

Are you going with the lowest rate to try to suppress the crabgrass or the higher rate to try to kill it?

Regarding the temp - I never see anything listed on the quinclorac label about application in warm weather aside from the always constant warning about applying to stressed turf. However, hybrid bermudagrass cultivars are "moderately tolerant" to quinclorac.

The reason it crossed my mind is that quinclorac has a soil residual.

"Quinclorac has soil residual activity and will provide approximately 20 to 30 days of residual crabgrass control.
https://njaes.rutgers.edu/e233/


----------



## Iriasj2009

Movingshrub said:


> Are you going with the lowest rate to try to suppress the crabgrass or the higher rate to try to kill it?
> 
> Regarding the temp - I never see anything listed on the quinclorac label about application in warm weather aside from the always constant warning about applying to stressed turf. However, hybrid bermudagrass cultivars are "moderately tolerant" to quinclorac.
> 
> The reason it crossed my mind is that quinclorac has a soil residual.
> 
> "Quinclorac has soil residual activity and will provide approximately 20 to 30 days of residual crabgrass control.
> https://njaes.rutgers.edu/e233/


I guess my main priority is to start leveling as soon as possible. currently the lawn is leggy and bumpy AF. 
I don't wanna spray any herbicides that might slow the growth down. I had good results when leveling celebration 3 weeks after installation but I'm not sure if tifgrand is as aggressive, but I'm still going to start scalping this weekend down to almost dirt and then I'm throwing sand down. 
So that being said, I might just spot treat as much posible and will take care of the crabgrass once it fills in.


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## DSchlauch

I may have overlooked if you addressed this, but why the change from Celebration to Tifgrand?

Looking good!


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## Iriasj2009

DSchlauch said:


> I may have overlooked if you addressed this, but why the change from Celebration to Tifgrand?
> 
> Looking good!


Thanks!!

Long story short, I had a lot of tifway Bermuda mixed in and I hated the difference in color.


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## Iriasj2009

So i started leveling the yard this weekend but I was only able to bring in 2 yards of sand. I still need one more yard of sand and once it starts growing through I will add sand to any low spots. 
I basically used my rotary at its lowest setting and scalp. Then I tried using my reel mower to go lower but the mat layer was so thick that I couldn't run the reel mower. So I decided to create a greens area and I used my landscape blade to remove practically all the top growth. The rest of the yard I left alone and spread the sand. We had a heavy downpour the following day and it really knocked down the sand into the canopy.

I will start maintaining the "greens" at .25" and lower the height down to .125".

The rest I will mow keep at .375"


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## nt5000

Iriasj2009 said:


> So I decided to create a greens area and I used my landscape blade to remove practically all the top growth.


Interesting! Looking forward to this. :thumbup: 
I'd really like to see some pics of the scalp before you added sand if you have any.

Now, I have SO many questions! haha :fool: 
1. What HOC did you scalp to in the greens area and other area?​
I have been curious about this as a potential method for being able to maintain HOC at a mower's lowest setting.
*2. If my mower only goes to 1", could I just take it all down to the deck with a string trimmer and then maintain at the lowest setting (assuming it's level enough?) *​
I always read on here, "scalp down to the dirt!" and "you can't kill bermuda with a lawn mower!" 
3a. What about with a string trimmer or LB?​3b. Are there occasions where it is better to leave some stolons/mat layer if it looks alive?​I think I learned my lesson about ripping too deep with a thatch rake already... :roll:


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## Guest

Looking good! Can't wait to see the finished product.


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## Iriasj2009

nt5000 said:


> I'd really like to see some pics of the scalp before you added sand if you have any.
> 
> Now, I have SO many questions! haha :fool:
> 1. What HOC did you scalp to in the greens area and other area?​
> I have been curious about this as a potential method for being able to maintain HOC at a mower's lowest setting.
> *2. If my mower only goes to 1", could I just take it all down to the deck with a string trimmer and then maintain at the lowest setting (assuming it's level enough?) *​
> I always read on here, "scalp down to the dirt!" and "you can't kill bermuda with a lawn mower!"
> 3a. What about with a string trimmer or LB?​3b. Are there occasions where it is better to leave some stolons/mat layer if it looks alive?​I think I learned my lesson about ripping too deep with a thatch rake already... :roll:


No pics. I've been slacking with progress pictures simply because by the time I get done I'm all worn out and the last thing I want to do is take any pics lol but I will try my best to take more.

Taking down to dirt won't kill the Bermuda but it will definitely set you back until it comes back. I've even applied 5 apps of a combination of roundup and fusilade and I still had Bermuda survive.

1.) I literally scalped it down to dirt using my maruyama landscaping blade. Goal was to start with a clean slate. Yes it will take longer for it to recover but it will come back.

2.) yes, if you're trying to maintain at your mower lowest setting then you definitely need to go lower.

3a.) if a string trimmer is all you have then go for although depending on the area it might be some work but doable. Again, I used my landscape blade which worked like a charm.

You can do what I did to the "non greens area", scalp using you mowers lowest setting, add sand, and then you should be able to maintain it at the same setting. Of course, I will be using a reel mower. This way you don't have to hit it with the string trimmer.

3b.) depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Putting greens are constantly verticutted/aerated/topdressed in order to maintain a firm surface, and reduce any sponginess/ scalping. 
If you have a lot of brown/dead stems "thatch", then you want to try to remove as much material as possible. You don't have go down to dirt if your planning on maintaining at 1" with a rotary.

I think the best approach for you is to scalp, detach without digging into the soil, scalp again, and you should be able to maintain at your mowers lowest setting without having to use a string trimmer.

I hope I answered your questions but feel free to ask me more.

So what happened whenever you used the detach take?


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## Iriasj2009

firefighter11 said:


> Looking good! Can't wait to see the finished product.


Thanks! Hopefully in 6-8 weeks I'm able to share some pics worth sharing lol


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## nt5000

Thank you, that is helpful! Sorry for hijacking your thread :lol:



Iriasj2009 said:


> You can do what I did to the "non greens area", scalp using you mowers lowest setting, add sand, and then you should be able to maintain it at the same setting.


 :thumbup: Good suggestion. I've seen this mentioned before. Adding a significant amount of sand is effectively raising the HOC above the crowns.



Iriasj2009 said:


> If you have a lot of brown/dead stems "thatch", then you want to try to remove as much material as possible. You don't have go down to dirt if your planning on maintaining at 1" with a rotary.


I am using a manual Scotts reel until I get a GM, so that's where my 1" limit comes from. Regardless, I now realize it's not necessary to scalp that low for a 1" maintenance HOC.



Iriasj2009 said:


> I think the best approach for you is to scalp, detach *without digging into the soil*, scalp again, and you should be able to maintain at your mowers lowest setting without having to use a string trimmer.
> 
> I hope I answered your questions but feel free to ask me more.
> 
> So what happened whenever you used the detach take?


I think this is the key thing I learned. If I went too deep it would rip/pull long stolons and roots out. (I guess this is the reason to verticut before aggressive dethatching.) I just used it on a small expiriment area and put a few bags of sand down. Yes, it did eventually fill in. Now sedge is popping up in the areas I used the rake, which I'm thinking might from exposing the soil? Things are slowly but surely starting to make sense.


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## g-man

@Iriasj2009 6 to 8 weeks for a picture? That's too long. Where is the drone video?


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## Iriasj2009

nt5000 said:


> Thank you, that is helpful! Sorry for hijacking your thread :lol


Haha no worries. 
What kind of fertilizer are u applying and how often?


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## Iriasj2009

g-man said:


> @Iriasj2009 6 to 8 weeks for a picture? That's too long. Where is the drone video?


No lol I'll be posting updates but that's how long it might be before I have something worthy of showing. As for the drone footage, the last video I made was after I killed off the rye I think. I will post it first chance I get. Hopefully sat i get to take more drone footage.


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## nt5000

Iriasj2009 said:


> nt5000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you, that is helpful! Sorry for hijacking your thread :lol
> 
> 
> 
> Haha no worries.
> What kind of fertilizer are u applying and how often?
Click to expand...

This is my first season with a lawn and I was *completely* winging it until I found this forum a few weeks ago. 
Put down ~1.5 lbN/k of NitroPhos 15-5-10 weed & feed at the beginning of March. Urea.
Then I put ~.75 lbN/k of NitroPhos 15-5-10 imperial fertilizer at the beginning of April. All 15% Ammoniacal Nitrogen and no Urea.

Then a lawn service put down 1 lb N/K of "20-3-10 fert w/ Prodiamine( pre-em)" on June 5th and that's it.

So reguarding the spot in the pictures, the last fert was applied a week before I ripped the grass out (and probably what was left of the fert with it) with the thatch rake. Then I just put down sand on top.

A much shorter answer would have been that the spot filled in without fertilizer, lol.


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## Iriasj2009

Pics taken yesterday evening. Today I'm mowing and going to lay down .5lbs of nitrogen. I'm seeing a lot of green peeking through the sand so hoping to for it to take off.

And yes lots of crabgrass but I'm gonna give it 2-3 more weeks before I spray it out. I sprayed my hell strip with celcius 3days ago and the bermuda seems unharmed. All the crabgrass is already yellowish red.


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## Iriasj2009

Added sand near all of the edging.


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## Iriasj2009

Just made it back from vacation. Before I left 12 days ago, I sprayed celcius/certainty and 2 days later I mowed it down to 1/4". Today I set the HOC to .42" and once I'm able to topdress again, I'm hoping to bring the height down to .33". I'm also wanting to aerate soon but we will see. I need to spray pesticides soon.

Here are some pre vacation pics:









Post vacation before mow:











Post mow:


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## Stellar P

Iriasj2009 said:


>


How come you put pavers on the property line? Physical Barrier for the St Aug/Bermuda or neighbor's mowing habits?

I've considered doing the same thing because neither of my neighbors can cut a strait line. Unfortunately my HOC is taller than theirs. I wish I had Bermuda every time after they've done their DWI mow.

Looks good by the way! :thumbup:


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## Iriasj2009

Thanks  
I had extra pavers so I decided to go with a physical barrier. im not worried about the st Augustine creeping in but I think this will give it a cleaner look.


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## Thor865

Glad to see my Tifgrand brother doing well. Now a fight to the lowest hoc! Ready, set, go!


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## nt5000

Thor865 said:


> Glad to see my Tifgrand brother doing well. Now a fight to the lowest hoc! Ready, set, go!


🍿😃


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## Iriasj2009

Thor865 said:


> Glad to see my Tifgrand brother doing well. Now a fight to the lowest hoc! Ready, set, go!


Yea I haven't been able to post as much but now I'm back and hopefully able to see what this tifgrand is all about. 
So far I'm liking the appearance more than celebration. It is finer and I like its color better. 
Hopefully it is as resilient as the celebration was. I think as for the HOC, I'm going to experiment and see what I thinks looks best for my liking. I've always loved the "greens" height look but I've always noticed that people really complimented my lawn when it was maintained higher between .5"-.75" since it looks greener and it is "spongier". 
Anywho I'm hoping to go as low as I can this year and go from there!


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## Iriasj2009

Verticut in 2 direction Aug 10th then scalped down to .3" and Heavily Aerated sat aug 18. Picked up all the cores as my aeration was to create Chanels for better water and fertilizer infiltration. I still need to fertilize and topdress. 
After analyzing my lawn, I realized that I will need several more levelings before I can really drop the height. For now I'm going to maintain at .42".

Pics after scalping down to .3".


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## Movingshrub

Looking good!


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## jayhawk

Maybe you just need something like https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5291#p92646 .


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## Iriasj2009

Movingshrub said:


> Looking good!


Thanks!


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## Iriasj2009

jayhawk said:


> Maybe you just need something like https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5291#p92646 .


Haha that might just work


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## Iriasj2009

Finally got the chance to sand today. It's hard to take pics whenever your tired and sweaty so I'll be taking some tomorrow morning once I clean up. 
Set the mower to .375" and groomer to .3". I'm going to slowly bring down the groomer to .2". No more greens area as my wife said it would look weird lol but I just wanted to see if I could reach a greens height. The lawn is just not there yet so hopefully I can finish off the season at .375".


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## Iriasj2009

Some pics


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## Visitor

Nice to see a manicured Bermuda lawn in Houston. Maybe it's me, but I really don't see much bermuda here, and when I do, it's usually poorly maintained.


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## Iriasj2009

Visitor said:


> Nice to see a manicured Bermuda lawn in Houston. Maybe it's me, but I really don't see much bermuda here, and when I do, it's usually poorly maintained.


It's not just you. St Augustine is simply the norm in the Houston area because of all the trees out here and it is easily grown because of our wet climate. I see you are growing celebration Bermuda, great choice!


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## Mightyquinn

Looking great Iriasj!! I had been wondering how things were going with the Tifgrand but I just haven't been on here that much recently. Can't wait to see it come next year when it's in all it's glory  I also like what you did with putting the boarder/barrier of stone against the neighbors lawn, that's a nice touch and I too have thought of doing that.


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## Visitor

It's not just you. St Augustine is simply the norm in the Houston area because of all the trees out here and it is easily grown because of our wet climate. I see you are growing celebration Bermuda, great choice!
[/quote]

Celebration ended up a necessity due to the limited sun exposure but it has worked out thus far. People in my neighborhood usually think I have turf. Not sure how they don't see me out there almost daily diddling around with something. Seeing your PRG success in Houston confirmed my plans to overseed this year.


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## Visitor

Iriasj2009 said:


> It's not just you. St Augustine is simply the norm in the Houston area because of all the trees out here and it is easily grown because of our wet climate. I see you are growing celebration Bermuda, great choice!


Celebration ended up a necessity due to the limited sun exposure but it has worked out thus far. People in my neighborhood usually think I have turf. Not sure how they don't see me out there almost daily diddling around with something. Seeing your PRG success in Houston confirmed my plans to overseed this year.


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## Iriasj2009

Mightyquinn said:


> Looking great Iriasj!! I had been wondering how things were going with the Tifgrand but I just haven't been on here that much recently. Can't wait to see it come next year when it's in all it's glory  I also like what you did with putting the boarder/barrier of stone against the neighbors lawn, that's a nice touch and I too have thought of doing that.


The pavers definitely gives the yard a cleaner look.
Me too man, slow progress but hopefully by this time next year I have it where I want it to be.


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## Iriasj2009

Visitor said:


> Iriasj2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not just you. St Augustine is simply the norm in the Houston area because of all the trees out here and it is easily grown because of our wet climate. I see you are growing celebration Bermuda, great choice!
> 
> 
> 
> Celebration ended up a necessity due to the limited sun exposure but it has worked out thus far. People in my neighborhood usually think I have turf. Not sure how they don't see me out there almost daily diddling around with something. Seeing your PRG success in Houston confirmed my plans to overseed this year.
Click to expand...

I see, I'm debating if I want to start my backyard renovation with a PRG overseed. 
Just know that celebration can get real thick and in order to have an even germination rate, you will need to open up the canopy well before you overseed.


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## erdons

Iriasj2009 said:


> Visitor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iriasj2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not just you. St Augustine is simply the norm in the Houston area because of all the trees out here and it is easily grown because of our wet climate. I see you are growing celebration Bermuda, great choice!
> 
> 
> 
> Celebration ended up a necessity due to the limited sun exposure but it has worked out thus far. People in my neighborhood usually think I have turf. Not sure how they don't see me out there almost daily diddling around with something. Seeing your PRG success in Houston confirmed my plans to overseed this year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see, I'm debating if I want to start my backyard renovation with a PRG overseed.
> Just know that celebration can get real thick and in order to have an even germination rate, you will need to open up the canopy well before you overseed.
Click to expand...

On that note are you seeding PRG into your tif this year or too early in year 1?


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## Iriasj2009

@erdons

I'm probably never going to overseed the front yard anymore. Too much work (not really other than prep and mowing)and I don't mind the break from mowing. Besides, here in Houston, I can probably keep the lawn green from March-December so a 2 month break isn't so bad. There's even years that we receive only a minor freeze and I bet the lawn would stay green longer. The back yard is gettting a make over which is why I might consider overseeding it.


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## Iriasj2009

So I want to wrap up this thread since im pretty much done with my renovation from Celebration to Tifgrand Bermuda. I will post a couple of pictures in a couple of weeks once the yard has fully healed from last weeks topdressing. I do see where Celebration is coming back here and there so that's a bummer but at least the Tifgrand blends in better with Celebration than tifway did.

Since last weeks topdressing, I have applied PGR. I have also started a Liquid fertilization program and I will be using Milorganite as well. Currently I am mowing at .5" and will be maintaining at this height until the beginning of next season.

So far I am very happy with the tifgrand and I will start a Journal of my own.


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## Iriasj2009

Watering in the penterra since it decided not to rain. I left it on for over 24hrs and it yellowed the blades a bit but hopefully it bounces back soon.


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## Iriasj2009

Finally able to take some pics with sunshine in them. HOC .55" 
Should be starting my journal soon.


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## Hexadecimal 00FF00

Your shadow has a slight "halo". It's like you're a turf god...



Iriasj2009 said:


>


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## Iriasj2009

Hexadecimal 00FF00 said:


> Your shadow has a slight "halo". It's like you're a turf god...
> 
> 
> 
> Iriasj2009 said:
Click to expand...

Lol far from it. But ill take it as a compliment haha


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## Stellar P

Iriasj2009 said:


> Hexadecimal 00FF00 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your shadow has a slight "halo". It's like you're a turf god...
> 
> 
> 
> Iriasj2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol far from it. But ill take it as a compliment haha
Click to expand...

Dude is definitely playing on God Mode!


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## kur1j

@Iriasj2009 Do you feel it was absolutely necessary to cut the sod out? I was thinking of sprigging my yard instead of sodding it all. As long as i can get ground contact (so breaking up the soil with a tiller or even a harley rake) I would think the sprigs would take. Is there a reason why you did the whole sod cutting?


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## Movingshrub

Iriasj2009 said:


> Finally able to take some pics with sunshine in them. HOC .55"
> Should be starting my journal soon.


That looks, SO good.


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## UFG8RMIKE

wow very nice


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## Iriasj2009

kur1j said:


> @Iriasj2009 Do you feel it was absolutely necessary to cut the sod out? I was thinking of sprigging my yard instead of sodding it all. As long as i can get ground contact (so breaking up the soil with a tiller or even a harley rake) I would think the sprigs would take. Is there a reason why you did the whole sod cutting?


Sorry for the late reply as I haven't been on the forum much. It wasn't absolutely necessary but I wanted to remove as much of the celebration Bermuda since it's such an aggressive Bermuda.


----------

