# Dethatch in hot summer



## Texas_Bermuda (Sep 1, 2018)

Hi i think this zoysia needs to be dethatched. Is it advisable to scalp AND dethatch this late in season? Im in texas, 95+ daily. What is the process for this? Im reading, pre-em, scalp, dethatch, 0.5#/k N. Is there a fungicide i could put down in the heat?

I should mention, currently using pgr so that will slow vertical recovery.


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## dubyadubya87 (Mar 10, 2020)

Listen to those who have had zoysia longer weigh in, but I'd be more concerned at the short amount of time it would have to recover this growing season. I would wait until next spring if it was mine. I'd love to do a leveling on mine, but am waiting.


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## sirwired (May 21, 2020)

Hard to say without a soil core if you need it at all. But you *do* need to sharpen those mower blades... much of your grass ends look pretty ragged. That alone will help with greening.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@Texas_Bermuda you would be fine as long as you can irrigate every few days, but scalping is all that it needs. Make sure you remove the clippings. When you get aggressive this time of year, the top few inches of soil will dry out very quickly. The recovery should be fine as your zoysia growth should be rapid with the heat. If you want to decrease recovery time, plan your scalp to when the PGR app will wear off. Keep in mind that the shaded areas will take longer to recover, and I would get back on the PGR quickly after recovery. I wouldn't worry about a fungicide this time of year unless you are getting rain daily for several days.

Edit - and I agree that your blade(s) isn't sharp enough.


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## Texas_Bermuda (Sep 1, 2018)

@Spammage heres a pic of a core. Do we need a scalp? And i must suck at blade sharpening because ive tried and tried!


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@Texas_Bermuda that is the only way to get rid of the brown stemmy growth above the soil surface. The ideal time for doing this is in the Spring, but since you didn't have the grass then, it wasn't possible. You can leave it this year if you want and scalp in the Spring, but you would be fine to do it now. I use my dethatcher to help thin the canopy to make scalping easier, but you shouldn't need to do this in the shaded areas. Dethatching can and will remove living plant too, and doing that in shaded areas isn't advisable. These are pictures from an August dethatch a couple of years ago, but this was only done in full sun areas. This was also being maintained at about an inch at the time, and was scalped to dirt in the Spring.





Sharpening rotary blades isn't scientific. An angle grinder and 80 grit sanding disc is all I use, and sharpening a rotary blade takes just a minute or two. Try to maintain the original angle on the blade and don't forget to get the underside of the blade too. You may find that you have to sharpen your blade every 2-3 weeks to keep it sharp enough for the zoysia, as it dulls blades quickly.


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## PGunn (May 17, 2020)

I'd save the manual labor and give N-EXT DThatch a try. It is suppose to work best in high heat. I will be applying this weekend for the first time, so I cant speak to the results, but its an easy application. "Apply as needed during warmer months (aids in microbial activity) 6-9 ounces per 1,000 sq. ft. as often as every 3 weeks depending on thatch layer thickness. Initial application may yield a green-up flush as nutrients that were held in the thatch are released. Product is safe to use on all turf and soil types"


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## bradleymichael (Jun 3, 2020)

Not to hi-jack this thread but I just ordered the SunJoe Scarifier/Dethatcher and it will be arriving on Saturday. I'm much like a kid on Christmas as in I want to open it up and use the thing as soon as I get it. I'm in NW Arkansas and the temps have been pretty high but we just had some decent rain last night and today. Would it be safe to use the scarifier? I have irrigation and can water it as much as needed.


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## PGunn (May 17, 2020)

bradleymichael said:


> Not to hi-jack this thread but I just ordered the SunJoe Scarifier/Dethatcher and it will be arriving on Saturday. I'm much like a kid on Christmas as in I want to open it up and use the thing as soon as I get it. I'm in NW Arkansas and the temps have been pretty high but we just had some decent rain last night and today. Would it be safe to use the scarifier? I have irrigation and can water it as much as needed.


I used a sunjoe last week and it worked really well, the problem I had is how long it took to do almost 9k sqft. You have to walk really really slow with that thing, but I was impressed with how well it did.


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## Wretched (Jul 20, 2020)

I use the Sunjoe on my bermuda and it works great!! On July 17 I did a Scalp to dirt, dethatch with sunjoe, sand leveling and aerated... This is today for a comparison picture. I'm just North of you in Oklahoma with relative weather. It came back very strong, thick. Top is July 30, Bottom is day of reno July 17.

Hope this helps!


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## DFWLawnNut (Jul 7, 2020)

Zoysia is a slow regrower after scalping and dethatching. Its definitely going to stress it, but you have plenty of time for it to recover here in Texas. Its not going to drop soil temps here for awhile.

This is farther north, but he does it too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUUgWDXc7zc


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## Texas_Bermuda (Sep 1, 2018)

Ok im sold. The sunjoe dethatcher just arrived. Will scratch away tomorrow, bag it, cut it down to maybe 1". then add 0.5#N and water it in. Good plan??


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)

Wretched said:


> It came back very strong, thick. Top is July 30, Bottom is day of reno July 17.


WOW! That is a wicked bounceback!


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## JayGo (Jun 13, 2019)

First off, I don't have zoysia nor do I know anything about it.

I scarify my lawn every 4 to 6 weeks, and after a few lengthy chats with Roland Hall from Allett he suggests scarifying the lawn every 2 weeks! 
Having said that, as long as you don't rake the lawn on the lowest setting (work your way down to the lowest setting over a few times of using the machine), the turf won't have much damage to recover from. The goal is to remove the debris while not damaging the plant.


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## Texas_Bermuda (Sep 1, 2018)

Wretched said:


> I use the Sunjoe on my bermuda and it works great!!


Thanks, yall have been super helpful. I have tried so hard on the damn grass this year and if this doesnt result in a greener lawn im goin to artificial turf. :bd:


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## Texas_Bermuda (Sep 1, 2018)

Alright friends, i went for it. Machine raked gently, and picked up, double cut it high, put down 0.5#/k AMS and some water. Just got pounded w a good ol texas rainstorm to top it off. We'll see! Thanks for the help.

before



After


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## DFWLawnNut (Jul 7, 2020)

So the "Doc" just put out a video where he says dont dethatch bermuda ever, only aerate it. I questioned this in the comments and he just replied "Its bermuda. You dont do that to bermuda" No real science behind it, but I cant imagine if you are mulching year after year that pulling up thatch is a bad idea. My lawn recovers from it just fine. I guess him aerating is a way around getting product into the soil similar to removing the thatch barrier. I say do both. *shrugs*


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I just verticut my bermuda and did a mid-season scalp. I'm not sure of the effectiveness of dethatching vs. verticutting but if you are mulching I would think that it wouldn't hurt to dethatch. My problem was not thatch; I needed to thin the canopy in order to scalp and break up the stolons.

I hate to keep talking bad about anyone but I seriously doubt Doc knows what the heck he is talking about. He's just now getting around to reel mowing this season... that alone shows me he is always a step behind.


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## DFWLawnNut (Jul 7, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> I just verticut my bermuda and did a mid-season scalp. I'm not sure of the effectiveness of dethatching vs. verticutting but if you are mulching I would think that it wouldn't hurt to dethatch. My problem was not thatch; I needed to thin the canopy in order to scalp and break up the stolons.
> 
> I hate to keep talking bad about anyone but I seriously doubt Doc knows what the heck he is talking about. He's just now getting around to reel mowing this season... that alone shows me he is always a step behind.


I think he started out as a nice guy (and still is from what I can tell), but he got on the Andersons train and saw the money coming in and never got off. I mean you gotta pay the bills so I understand but it does feel a little shilly pushing less product for more money even if its a good product.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

DFWLawnNut said:


> So the "Doc" just put out a video where he says dont dethatch bermuda ever, only aerate it. I questioned this in the comments and he just replied "Its bermuda. You dont do that to bermuda"


This actually isn't horrible advice. What many here are doing with powered dethatchers is more akin to a poor man's verticut. Dethatching bermuda or zoysia with a pull-behind dethatcher like what would typically be used on cool season grass is a bad idea, unless you are trying to create your own sprigs.


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## MRunion (May 30, 2018)

Agreed on the horrible advice. I also questioned his suggestion on not dethatching or verticutting bermuda. I question his backgound in golf courses...


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## DFWLawnNut (Jul 7, 2020)

MRunion said:


> Agreed on the horrible advice. I also questioned his suggestion on not dethatching or verticutting bermuda. I question his backgound in golf courses...


Yeah I saw your question on there as well and wondered if you were on here too lol. MrMadeInThe80s is me haha.


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## MRunion (May 30, 2018)

Yeah.. I was surprised that he took a hard stance on not dethatching or verticutting... I shrug my shoulders watching his videos and have to wonder if he's not just learning as he goes. I remember a year or two ago when he put a video up on how to "Level" the tire spots in his yard, using his hands... fast forward a couple of years and now he's got sand, a leveling rake, etc.. At one point he also said that his John Deere was the best thing for a Bermuda lawn... If he truly has a background in golf courses, he would have been reel mowing and leveling with sand from the beginning.


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## Hapa512 (Mar 22, 2020)

MRunion said:


> Yeah.. I was surprised that he took a hard stance on not dethatching or verticutting... I shrug my shoulders watching his videos and have to wonder if he's not just learning as he goes. I remember a year or two ago when he put a video up on how to "Level" the tire spots in his yard, using his hands... fast forward a couple of years and now he's got sand, a leveling rake, etc.. At one point he also said that his John Deere was the best thing for a Bermuda lawn... If he truly has a background in golf courses, he would have been reel mowing and leveling with sand from the beginning.


Maybe when Anderson's comes out with a dethatcher or verticutter he'll change his tune....LOL I'm he does have a $3,000 aerator as his disposal, so he can use it everyday if he wants to?


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## Harley (May 3, 2020)

DFWLawnNut said:


> So the "Doc" just put out a video where he says dont dethatch bermuda ever, only aerate it. I questioned this in the comments and he just replied "Its bermuda. You dont do that to bermuda" No real science behind it, but I cant imagine if you are mulching year after year that pulling up thatch is a bad idea. My lawn recovers from it just fine. I guess him aerating is a way around getting product into the soil similar to removing the thatch barrier. I say do both. *shrugs*


Who is Doc?


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Harley said:


> DFWLawnNut said:
> 
> 
> > So the "Doc" just put out a video where he says dont dethatch bermuda ever, only aerate it. I questioned this in the comments and he just replied "Its bermuda. You dont do that to bermuda" No real science behind it, but I cant imagine if you are mulching year after year that pulling up thatch is a bad idea. My lawn recovers from it just fine. I guess him aerating is a way around getting product into the soil similar to removing the thatch barrier. I say do both. *shrugs*
> ...


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## DFWLawnNut (Jul 7, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> Harley said:
> 
> 
> > DFWLawnNut said:
> ...


LOL 
He's nobody inconsequential. Just search YouTube for him.


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## potterwc (Jul 1, 2019)

Wretched said:


> I use the Sunjoe on my bermuda and it works great!! On July 17 I did a Scalp to dirt, dethatch with sunjoe, sand leveling and aerated... This is today for a comparison picture. I'm just North of you in Oklahoma with relative weather. It came back very strong, thick. Top is July 30, Bottom is day of reno July 17.
> 
> Hope this helps!


Oklahoma has had a much more forgiving summer this year than central Texas. For example, here in San Antonio I have dealt with 100+ nearly every day since 1st week of July and only two rains since then plus add on a watering restriction. But in fairness we have longer for the grass to recover but my personal opinion would be to wait until the spring because rain isn't guaranteed here.


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## potterwc (Jul 1, 2019)

Harley said:


> DFWLawnNut said:
> 
> 
> > So the "Doc" just put out a video where he says dont dethatch bermuda ever, only aerate it. I questioned this in the comments and he just replied "Its bermuda. You dont do that to bermuda" No real science behind it, but I cant imagine if you are mulching year after year that pulling up thatch is a bad idea. My lawn recovers from it just fine. I guess him aerating is a way around getting product into the soil similar to removing the thatch barrier. I say do both. *shrugs*
> ...


I'll pass on the Doc's advice......seems antiquated to me....I like to reach out to the closest agricultural extension's office for real recommendations.


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