# Spray Nozzles For N-EXT Products



## ccanad (May 24, 2018)

I have a Chapin 24V backpack sprayer with a 3-nozzle boom. Which Tee-Jet nozzle would you guys recommend for these products:

RGS
9-0-1 Greene Start
18-0-1 Greene Punch


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

ccanad said:


> I have a Chapin 24V backpack sprayer with a 3-nozzle boom. Which Tee-Jet nozzle would you guys recommend for these products:
> 
> RGS
> 9-0-1 Greene Start
> 18-0-1 Greene Punch


I don't think that sprayer setup is going to work well for those particular products. For example, the GreenePunch 18-0-1 label says to apply it at a rate of 12-18 oz per thousand with a recommended dilution rate of 20:1. So that means the application rate for your tank mix would be something like 252-378 oz per thousand (double check my math). I don't think the Chapin 20V pump is going to give you the volume you're going to want - not to mention you would be refilling the 4 gallon backpack _a lot_. I think that's why guys like Allyn and Pete are encouraging the use of a hose end sprayer for those products.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Okay, so I found a different label that says 16oz per thousand for warm season turf at a dilution rate of 7:1, so that would only be like 128oz (1 gallon) per thousand. That sounds much easier to accomplish, but I'm still not sure if you're going to be able to get there with a 3-nozzle boom on the Chapin 20V.


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Have you tested the 3 nozzle boom? I have the same setup and dont get a good spray pattern using my Chapin 20V. I think that sprayer doesn't have enough PSI to support the 3 nozzles. I was planning to hack it into a 2 nozzle boom come spring.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Ware said:


> Okay, so I found a different label that says 16oz per thousand for warm season turf at a dilution rate of 7:1, so that would only be like 128oz (1 gallon) per thousand. That sounds much easier to accomplish, but I'm still not sure if you're going to be able to get there with a 3-nozzle boom on the Chapin 20V.


What I'm I missing here. How does 16oz per gallons get to 128 oz per gallon? Dilution rate?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

CenlaLowell said:


> What I'm I missing here. How does 16oz per gallons get to 128 oz per gallon? Dilution rate?


Note the rate is 16oz per thousand square feet, not 16oz per gallon. So 16oz of product goes in the tank for every 1,000 square feet.

Then the label recommends a dilution rate of 7:1. So for every ounce of product you need to add 7oz of water... 7oz water x 16oz of product = 112oz of water per thousand.

Add the 16oz of product plus the 112oz of water, and you're at 128oz per thousand.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Ware said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> > What I'm I missing here. How does 16oz per gallons get to 128 oz per gallon? Dilution rate?
> ...


Understood :thumbup:


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## ccanad (May 24, 2018)

@Ware

Ok, I have an Ortho Hose End Sprayer, so that should work out fine.

The only bummer is that the tank on the sprayer only holds 32oz, which at the 16oz/1K Sqft application rate for Greene Start and Green Punch, only gets me 2000 sqft per fill. I have 10K sqft in my front yard alone, and the same in the back.

To hit that recommended 20:1 dilution rate, looks like I'll need to set the dial to 6 (oz/gal), which would take me a little under 3 min minutes to empty the tank for 2000 sqft of coverage (trust the math...). So maybe a half an hour to do the whole front yard when adding in the tank mixing, etc...

I guess that's not too bad on time.

I'm just going blow through each gallon of this quickly...


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## ccanad (May 24, 2018)

[Posted this on LCN Facebook group, figured this group could help too!]



Got busy last night. First time applying with ortho sprayer. I have a large lawn and it was a long process. 10K front yard alone takes 5 refills, due to the small 32oz size of the ortho tank. That is a pain in the *** for sure.

The application went ok, learned to be a little more efficient during each refill. Originally worked the math for the 20:1 dilution rate to use the 6oz dial setting, but I really had to move to hit each 2K sqft span in the 2.5 minutes. That wasn't worth it, so I dialed back to 4oz dial setting and that got me into a nice rhythm. I did run into the issue with the hose screen clogging up, but found a fix for that on a JTLK video.

Given the size of my lawn, I'm seriously considering finding a good tow behind tank sprayer that I can attach to the back of riding mower. I found one that may suit my needs, NorthStar 21 Gallon w/ boom, which is towable.

I just don't think the ortho hose end spray method is going to suit my needs for lawn size. (Posted a picture for scope)

I currently have a battery backpack sprayer, and this is my normal routine for applying herbicides and pesticides. I have much more control on items that require precision.

However, the N-EXT products require massive dilution (20:1 ratio), which is why GCF recommends a hose-end sprayer. Given the size of my yard, it's a total pain in the *** to keep refilling the tiny Ortho tank every 2000 sqft. Therefore, I am looking into other alternatives that allow a much larger tank.

For example, if I want to get a 21 gallon tank, I could add 20 gallons of water and 1 gallon of Greene Punch 18-0-1 that would cover 8000-10000 sqft for a 13-16 oz/1K sqft application rate. This would be the ideal case scenario. Has anyone here attempted this type of setup?

Any other ideas? I'm sure some of you out there have experienced this same problem.


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

@ccanad I use this and am happy with it Blue Mule Hose End Sprayer. I've been meaning to call Blue Mule to get the 40 degree tip. Same concept as the Ortho but with more capacity and durability.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Anyone think it would be OK to spray the product using less water and then water it in? Seems like it should accomplish basically the same end result - get the product down into the soil and get the plant growing to take it up.


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## LowCountryCharleston (Jun 21, 2018)

ccanad said:


> [Posted this on LCN Facebook group, figured this group could help too!]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## LowCountryCharleston (Jun 21, 2018)

Grass Clippins said:


> @ccanad I use this and am happy with it Blue Mule Hose End Sprayer. I've been meaning to call Blue Mule to get the 40 degree tip. Same concept as the Ortho but with more capacity and durability.
> Wow, those look really nice. Have you tried them with the N-EXT products? That's the reason I went with the Ortho Sprayer. I'd be curious to know how blue mule works with those products. Which model sprayer do you use?
> 
> Thanks!


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## LowCountryCharleston (Jun 21, 2018)

Grass Clippins said:


> @ccanad I use this and am happy with it Blue Mule Hose End Sprayer. I've been meaning to call Blue Mule to get the 40 degree tip. Same concept as the Ortho but with more capacity and durability.


Those are really nice. What Sprayer model are you using and how well does it work with the N-ext products.

Thanks,


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

@LowCountryCharleston I use the Hose-End Spray-All 50. The Compact Spray-All 50 could be nice for smaller yards. If someone where to get one, I would recommend they call Paul at Blue Mule to ask about exchanging the 20 degree fan nozzle for a 40 degree fan nozzle. It's tough to get good coverage with the 20 degree nozzle. I like mine a lot, but then again it's easy to like it when the alternatives are junk, last time I was at Lowe's they had the Ortho on clearance for $2.38 and that's probably what it's worth.


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## Chuck S (Nov 5, 2018)

I've not had any issues with these products and my 4-gallon powered Chapin sprayer (other than getting on my back when full!) using whatever nozzle it came with. I'm only doing 3000 - 4000 square feet which I've marked and eyeballed into 1000 sf sections. At an application rate of 1 gallon of 1:7 mixture per thousand square feet I easily manage with a single fill and a lot easier than dragging a hose around the yard.

-- Chuck


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## NewLawnJon (Aug 3, 2018)

Delmarva Keith said:


> Anyone think it would be OK to spray the product using less water and then water it in? Seems like it should accomplish basically the same end result - get the product down into the soil and get the plant growing to take it up.


N-Ext says you can go as low as 1:7 ratio and water it in for 15-20 minutes.


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

@NewLawnJon You are correct. Almost everything calls for 7:1, except 18-0-1 but even that's unclear. The 18-0-1 label states 7:1, but the application instructions state 20:1. Even if you are using a 7:1 ratio, the 18-0-1 calls for between 12 to 24 oz per 1,000 square feet. At the 24 oz rate you're covering around 2,600 square feet per 4 gallon run. Greene Start calls for 16 oz per 1,000 square feet which would cover 4,000 square feet per 4 gallon run. I believe that's why GCF and LCN preach the Hose End for these two products.

As far as dilution ratios go...I've surmised that people are going to do what they're going to do and the guy selling backpack sprayer nozzle assemblies is going to tell you to use backpack sprayer for everything.


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## ccanad (May 24, 2018)

Grass Clippins said:


> @ccanad I use this and am happy with it Blue Mule Hose End Sprayer. I've been meaning to call Blue Mule to get the 40 degree tip. Same concept as the Ortho but with more capacity and durability.


Just getting around to seeing this reply. Thanks for the info. That backpack hose end sprayer is pretty sweet.

I'm seriously just considering getting a towable attachment for my riding mower and calling it a day. A 21 gallon tank is perfect for that 20:1 ratio. Basically I can dump the whole gallon in and get 8K-10K coverage depending on my application rate. Just need to find the best option for the right price.


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## NewLawnJon (Aug 3, 2018)

Grass Clippins said:


> @NewLawnJon You are correct. Almost everything calls for 7:1, except 18-0-1 but even that's unclear. The 18-0-1 label states 7:1, but the application instructions state 20:1. Even if you are using a 7:1 ratio, the 18-0-1 calls for between 12 to 24 oz per 1,000 square feet. At the 24 oz rate you're covering around 2,600 square feet per 4 gallon run. Greene Start calls for 16 oz per 1,000 square feet which would cover 4,000 square feet per 4 gallon run. I believe that's why GCF and LCN preach the Hose End for these two products.
> 
> As far as dilution ratios go...I've surmised that people are going to do what they're going to do and the guy selling backpack sprayer nozzle assemblies is going to tell you to use backpack sprayer for everything.


Regardless of the method used for application of the 18-0-1 the hose end or backpack are going to require several refills. On the 20oz/M and 7:1 ratio a backpack would get you 3500 square feet, and an Ortho hose end would be around 2,000 square feet. I know that Allyn Hayne mentioned one of the N-Ext products plugging up the Ortho (not sure if it was the GreenePunch or Micro), but they get thick and are a struggle to put down at the rates needed regardless of method.


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## iFisch3224 (Jun 11, 2018)

NewLawnJon said:


> Grass Clippins said:
> 
> 
> > @NewLawnJon You are correct. Almost everything calls for 7:1, except 18-0-1 but even that's unclear. The 18-0-1 label states 7:1, but the application instructions state 20:1. Even if you are using a 7:1 ratio, the 18-0-1 calls for between 12 to 24 oz per 1,000 square feet. At the 24 oz rate you're covering around 2,600 square feet per 4 gallon run. Greene Start calls for 16 oz per 1,000 square feet which would cover 4,000 square feet per 4 gallon run. I believe that's why GCF and LCN preach the Hose End for these two products.
> ...


I've had problems mixing with the Ortho on anything more then two products. I did an application of RGS at 9oz and Microgreene at 6oz and had no issues spraying.

If I were to apply 6oz of RGS, 6oz of Humic and 6oz of Microgreene or Air8 it gets clogged. It seems 3 or more products is where I get issues. I think John made a video on this a while back, about something in one of the products that causes mixing issues.


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

ccanad said:


> Grass Clippins said:
> 
> 
> > @ccanad I use this and am happy with it Blue Mule Hose End Sprayer. I've been meaning to call Blue Mule to get the 40 degree tip. Same concept as the Ortho but with more capacity and durability.
> ...


That would definitely be better and more fun than the ortho.


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

NewLawnJon said:


> Grass Clippins said:
> 
> 
> > @NewLawnJon You are correct. Almost everything calls for 7:1, except 18-0-1 but even that's unclear. The 18-0-1 label states 7:1, but the application instructions state 20:1. Even if you are using a 7:1 ratio, the 18-0-1 calls for between 12 to 24 oz per 1,000 square feet. At the 24 oz rate you're covering around 2,600 square feet per 4 gallon run. Greene Start calls for 16 oz per 1,000 square feet which would cover 4,000 square feet per 4 gallon run. I believe that's why GCF and LCN preach the Hose End for these two products.
> ...


I agree, it's hard to determine which would be a bigger pain in the A. If you want to use 18-0-1, the correct way, on larger lots you have to get creative. I use a high capacity hose end sprayer, see photo below, that holds 512 ounces of juice and gets 28:1 dilution. No refills required... :gum: Another option would be a tow behind sprayer. I honestly think that it might be easier for a lot of people to forget about liquid fert and stick with granular. Bio Stems are real easy to lay down with a backpack sprayer or sprayer-mate, 18-0-1 is a different story.


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

iFisch3224 said:


> NewLawnJon said:
> 
> 
> > Grass Clippins said:
> ...


I had clogging with a 3oz Humic-12 and 3 oz Microgreene (1:1 ratio). Humic-12 might be the culprit. I guess you have to mix it up really well.


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## iFisch3224 (Jun 11, 2018)

Grass Clippins said:


> iFisch3224 said:
> 
> 
> > NewLawnJon said:
> ...


It could be - I thought it might be Air8, but I might be mistaken. That causes things to clump up/not mix well when adding more than 1 other product.


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

iFisch3224 said:


> Grass Clippins said:
> 
> 
> > iFisch3224 said:
> ...


Update. It was in the 60's today in GA so I spent a little time outside spraying. I always mix Humic-12 with Microgreene and Air8 with RGS, I think they recommend that on the instructions. I noticed that Microgreene has a very fine silt that was cloging up the filler neck filter on my tank, probably the coldwater water kelp. I added plenty of extra water this time so I didn't get any clogging but I can definitely see how that stuff could get attach to the Air8 sludge and cause problems.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Grass Clippins said:


> NewLawnJon said:
> 
> 
> > Grass Clippins said:
> ...


How is that gun your spraying with? Got any links to that product?


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## TommyTester (Jul 3, 2018)

I'd suggest a Venturi Siphon at the front end of your hose setup. Very cheap on Ebay or Amazon. With some calibration and it can eliminate all those refill stops needed with the other methods, and far less messy. It's useful for other mix products as well. I'd use it with a 5 gallon pail. What do you all think?

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4K3G24gMzU[/media]

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lue2jNJTgo[/media]


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

@CenlaLowell If you click the link below that says "Blue Mule Hose End Sprayer" it will take you to all the info. I need to put together a built sheet for anyone interested. The sprayer is pretty good but it's not the ultimate solution. The GCF products are really messy so if the sprayer is not set up perfectly it can get out of hand quickly. Your limiting factor is the water hose, if you need more than 75 foot of water hose to work with then I'd say it's a no go. Anything more than that ruins the experience and takes you out of the rhythm that needed to be acurrate.


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

@TommyTester I agree 100%. Anything that would allow you to move the siphon closer to the water source is the way to go. This eliminates the burden of dealing with a larger diameter water hose. If someone were to experiment with cheap version, and they like it, then they could always step up to a more accurate model like this:

https://www.laffertyequipment.com/products/975057/

This company sells individual parts to build your own version, I'm sure that stainless steel cart is not cheap.


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## TommyTester (Jul 3, 2018)

Grass Clippins said:


> @TommyTester I agree 100%. If someone were to experiment with cheap version, and they like it ....


I ordered one  one to play with.

When I first looked into this idea, it was to use with my Orbit traveling sprinkler set-up, which I've calibrated to deliver nearly the same amount of water per square foot over a 5000 foot area. I thought I could use this to apply a light amount of N, like Miracle Gro, using this method. This particular Venturi Siphon may not be the one I ultimately end up with, but it is cheap enough to gain some experience. The key to these is good water flow, so it should work OK with a single garden hose nozzle or sprinkler head. (It's not for drip irrigation)

I'll run some tests with my lawn lab assistants, and post the results in the next few weeks.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

TommyTester said:


> Grass Clippins said:
> 
> 
> > @TommyTester I agree 100%. If someone were to experiment with cheap version, and they like it ....
> ...


You have a tough job Mr. Tester. I'm just glad you're willing to deal with such terrible work conditions to make us all smarter. I'm sure you dread the days you have to run tests with the hose.


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

@TommyTester You'd be wise to get those girls proper back support while their on the clock. Otherwise it's a workers comp claim waiting to happen.


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## TommyTester (Jul 3, 2018)

TN Hawkeye said:


> You have a tough job Mr. Tester. I'm just glad you're willing to deal with such terrible work conditions to make us all smarter. I'm sure you dread the days you have to run tests with the hose.


Si Si :bandit:


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## TommyTester (Jul 3, 2018)

Grass Clippins said:


> @TommyTester You'd be wise to get those girls proper back support while their on the clock. Otherwise it's a workers comp claim waiting to happen.


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## LowCountryCharleston (Jun 21, 2018)

Grass Clippins said:


> @ccanad I use this and am happy with it Blue Mule Hose End Sprayer. I've been meaning to call Blue Mule to get the 40 degree tip. Same concept as the Ortho but with more capacity and durability.


Those are really nice. Which version do you own and how do you like it compared to the ortho version. 
Thanks!


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## jmac1986 (Jul 31, 2018)

Grass Clippins said:


> @CenlaLowell If you click the link below that says "Blue Mule Hose End Sprayer" it will take you to all the info. I need to put together a built sheet for anyone interested. The sprayer is pretty good but it's not the ultimate solution. The GCF products are really messy so if the sprayer is not set up perfectly it can get out of hand quickly. Your limiting factor is the water hose, if you need more than 75 foot of water hose to work with then I'd say it's a no go. Anything more than that ruins the experience and takes you out of the rhythm that needed to be acurrate.


I'd be interested in knowing what all you bought to put that together. The Ortho just isn't working for me


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

@LowCountryCharleston & @jmac1986 I'll do a finally thought on the Blue Mule this weekend, supposed to rain. The model I bought and a good bit of other information is listed here.


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## LowCountryCharleston (Jun 21, 2018)

Grass Clippins said:


> @LowCountryCharleston & @jmac1986 I'll do a finally thought on the Blue Mule this weekend, supposed to rain. The model I bought and a good bit of other information is listed here.


Curious if you were able to use the Blue Mule and how it all went?

Thanks


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## TommyTester (Jul 3, 2018)

I tested one of these units. It has a rather low mixing ratio (6:1 to 20:1). OK for garden use, but likely not for irrigation. Need one in the >100:1 range. Interesting to play with.

[media]https://youtu.be/oMG75_mPdFw[/media]

My Channel


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

TommyTester said:


> I tested one of these units. It has a rather low mixing ratio (6:1 to 20:1). OK for garden use, but likely not for irrigation. Need one in the >100:1 range. Interesting to play with.
> 
> [media]https://youtu.be/oMG75_mPdFw[/media]
> 
> My Channel


If you mixed your concentrate 5:1 (water:concentrate) would that not get you 100:1 on the 20:1 setting?


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## TommyTester (Jul 3, 2018)

Grass Clippins said:


> If you mixed your concentrate 5:1 (water:concentrate) would that not get you 100:1 on the 20:1 setting?


Here's the way I figured it (as an example).

A full box of Miracle Gro Lawn food covers 4000 sq ft. (36-0-6). 1 box has 4 packs of 1000 sq ft dry powder each.

I have 4800 to cover in one sprinkler run, so if I just use 1 box it will provide a max of 30-0-5 in a vat of 49 gallons.

I'd rather spread the feeding over 4 sprinkler cycles, using 1 pack per cycle into 49 gallons. (7.5-0-1.25) to be precise.

====
BTW, I ran a series of additional tests this morning and the highest mix ratio I can get reliably with this thing is 56:1, suggesting I could get by with a 14 gallon vat (instead of 49). That's not bad to provide 4 hours of go juice.

I think I can get a 15 gallon container from a local dairy farmer for free. It's a common container size. Stay tuned.



====== UPDATE ======
One question I need to answer is "Does this thing's mixing ratio hold steady from 1 to about 7 GPM?" I know my particular water service/sprinkler/hose combination uses 3.25 GPM, so I will have to check that the 56:1 ratio that I mentioned is indeed valid at that GPM.


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