# JerseyGreens 2020 Lawn Reno - BlueBank KBG Mono - Front



## JerseyGreens

Good morning guys - I've been posting Questions all over the place, in our NJ Group...and other lawn reno journals. It's time I get this bad boy started - here we go!

Background - Moved into this home a year ago, it's new construction. Contractor used junk seed in order for me to close on the house. Had a very successful Fall Overseed but I have the reno bug. No point in nursing this lawn to great lengths if it's not exactly what I'm looking to have on my property.

Going with a 100% Monostand BlueBank (new Midnight).

Here is the timeline which I'll keep updating - the future dates are all estimates depending on the weather:

*7/8/2020: First Round of GLY*
~7/14/2020: Bring cut down to 2.5" (currently 3.5'')
*7/15/2020: Second Round of GLY*
~7/21/2020: Scalp as low as possible and bag. I may manually rake.
~7/23/2020: Bring in 36-40 yards of Premium Blend Topsoil

Get soil test done on new compost/topsoil (assume it will be acidic)
*~7/29/2020: Third round of GLY*
*~8/5/2020: Fourth and final round of GLY*
*~8/9/2020: Spot Spray GLY*

8/21/2020: SEED DOWN
​
 Final leveling/picking up rocks, debris, etc.
​
 Hand rakes 6500 sq feet - woof
​
 Seed down
​
 Spray Tenacity + Azozy
 - Ended up heavy handed on this, will report back.
​
 Roll Lawn
​
 Spread Peat Moss
​
 Water
​
 Relax

8/30/2020: Germination. DAG: 1
9/17/2020: 0.25 Lbs N per K via Granular AMS
1 Week Later: 0.25 lbs N per K via Granular AMS
1 Week Later: 0.25 lbs N/K CX GRN + 3 days later 0.15 lbs N per K Granular AMS (booster N)
1 Week Later: 0.5 lbs N per K via Granular AMS
1 Week Later: 0.5 lbs N/K CX GRN + 3 days later 0.15 lbs N per K Granular AMS (booster N)
1 Weeks later: Milo @ 0.5 lbs N per K + 3 days later 0.15 lbs N per K Granular AMS (booster N)
2 Weeks later: 1 1bs N per K via Granular AMS
2 Weeks later: 1 lbs N/K CX GRN + 3 days later 0.15 lbs N per K Granular AMS (booster N)
The last app comes in around Thanksgiving and I'll shut it down

Current Questions for our Community (when answered I'll go ahead and list the general consensus and my decision here):​
Will the contractor using the skid steer cause any compaction issues, if so, should I add in an app of Air8 the next day after it's spread out?

Should I aerate a day or two before the new topsoil is coming in - no major compaction issues, would be wish list item?

I want to get in on the PGR game...and get in on it while they are babies - Ryan Knorr had luck with this. Read through multiple PGR Guides but would love input here. - *My Fellow local lawn guys have said there is major downside here and very little upside using PGR on green babies. Will wait until Spring*

Live on a main road - delivery guys and gals always walking on lawn - should I add caution tape or is that just too much? - *Consensus is to use it, people already think I'm a Lawn Nut - who cares!*

I assume there is no need to dethatch/scarify since I'm covering the entire reno area with new topsoil

I have an irrigation system - what is the best practice to fallow; estimated time per zone?

I think that's it for starters...I'm an Underwriter by trade which basically means I ask questions for a living. Thank you already to those that have helped me get this far, and Thank you to those new members jumping in to help this become successful. It can be left unsaid but I will end up having more questions!


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## JerseyGreens

Before Pictures - one day before first round of GLY. 











I know...I'll dig out the tree stump. Builder planted a tree that was barely alive...


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## JerseyGreens

Kill/Prep & Seed Down pictures

Will apply second round on Wednesday (1 week from first round)



Full Sun GLY Stripes, ha!


Toasted


First tri-axle of premium topsoil delivered 7/23


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## JerseyGreens

Reserved for Pictures


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## JerseyGreens

Reserved for Pictures


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## Alex1389

One minor thing -- before your first app of Gly, I would not bring down your cutting height, especially with these temperatures. You want your lawn as healthy as possible before Gly, and a reduction in HOC might stunt it a bit. Recommendation would be to keep original HOC and water the heck out of it prior to first Gly. Then a couple days after first Gly, I would start bringing your HOC down before the grass flops over.

Also, make sure you are fallowing in between the Gly apps to ensure all weed seeds germinate, especially after bringing in fresh top soil!

Good luck! Looking forward to seeing the results.


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## JerseyGreens

Thank you @Alex1389 - made the change!

Heat has been brutal...


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## Biggylawns

Use caution tape. Multiple people on here, myself included, have used it and I will use it again this year too. The last thing you want is to put in all that work and for somebody to mess it up.


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## JerseyGreens

Done - change made above. Screw it...I'll look boogie but no one is going to hurt my babies...


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## gregonfire

Biggylawns said:


> Use caution tape. Multiple people on here, myself included, have used it and I will use it again this year too. The last thing you want is to put in all that work and for somebody to mess it up.


+1

I surrounded the hell strip with stakes and caution tape due to people parking in front of my house. Same with my front porch, since our mailman likes to walk across the grass to get to the next house.


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## gm560

I know you have a lot of area to cover but you might want to try to use peat moss everywhere you seed. Its not going to do much to prevent washout on hills, but it will help maintain moisture and hide the seed from birds. It sucks spreading it, its messy, non trivial in cost but it does help. There are other cover options, too. I used mulch pellets and it worked okay. I think the areas I used peat worked out better.


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## gm560

Watering is easy with irrigation. You almost cant water too frequently, but can water too much, if that makes sense. I think I did it 5 times a day. Starting morning, 5:30am, 10 am, 1 pm. 3pm, 6pm, something like that. Each one only for 5-10 min.... and I have MP rotators, so that's not a ton of water.


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## doverosx

Planning a soil test on the new top soil?

Are you married to milo? A synthetic P will be available to the seedlings much sooner.


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## JerseyGreens

Didn't think about a soil test on the new topsoil but I will add that to the list.

I'm adding Milo plus LESCO starter fert which is synthetic.


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## DiabeticKripple

i second the peat moss on the whole area if you can.

in all the dog pee spots ive tried to fix, the ones without peat didnt germinate. the ones that had it did. i think it helps BIG TIME in holding the moisture, especially when the sun is out. Keeps the birds off too.


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## JerseyGreens

Alright Alright...I'll take a nice long break and get cracking on the Peat Moss.

Do any of you have a "top notch" peat moss that doesn't have a bunch of debris that easily gets stuck in my compost roller?


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## DiabeticKripple

not sure what you get down there, but there stuff in the green and white bag has lots of debris, while there's an all black bag that doesnt have the debris in it. sorry i cant remember the brand.


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## cfinden

@JerseyGreens this stuff has very little chunks, wood pieces, etc. 
https://www.homedepot.com/p/3-cu-ft-Peat-Moss-3001-CFC003P/205883917


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## JerseyGreens

Thank you!!


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## JerseyGreens

Found another forum where @g-man said it was cool to start super low at 5ml/k for PGR on a lawn reno. I'll do that around day 60.


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## Biggylawns

I think the the 60 day post germination is for pre-em, not PGR. No need to do PGR in October around here, most stop in mid-Sept.


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## JerseyGreens

Thanks for the input - can I do it sooner, say 30 days post-germ?


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## gm560

I would personally wait on the PGR until spring on a full reno. I doubt much good would come of it and there could even be some serious downside. If you are itching to get out and spray, some propiconazole will likely provide more benefit. Just my two cents.


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## JerseyGreens

You guys got it - I'll wait until the Spring. Removed the PGR note from the reno. Thanks!

Key questions left are:
Spreading topsoil; hand vs skid steer (potential compaction but it will "mat" it down avoiding any topsoil runoff)
Do I need to dethatch/scarify/drag mat given I'll be putting down 1.5 - 2'' of topsoil (assume thats already a solid seed bed).


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## dleonard11122

Have you already secured a contractor to spread the topsoil? If so, do you mind sharing what you're going to pay for the truckload of soil and having it spread?


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## JerseyGreens

I did - I'm paying a little bit more but doing it by hand to avoid compaction from a full size CAT Skid.

I'm paying cheap - $850 to get it spread/raked. 2 Tri-Axles full of Soil...

Since I plan to get into reel mowing - this will by far be one of the most important steps (other than seed down day).


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## dleonard11122

That sounds reasonable. I just tilled and tried to finish grade my 25k back lawn this fall and had so-so results. It's a bit bumpy, but I'm not reel mowing either. I might get a truck load of soil or sand to spread at some point too.


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## JerseyGreens

Tilling it a big no-no unless you go back over and compact it back down with something like a CAT Skid.

Probably why you have the bumps.

You can always level now like you stated - good luck!


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## shadowlawnjutsu

I'm also renovating this fall and I live near by. I'm in Hackettstown and will be seeding Bluebank & Mazama. I'm excited to see the monostand bluebank. I'm actually thinking to do a monostand in a small area. I've been searching for pictures of bluebank result but I don't see a lot. So I'm just relying on the NTEP. Good luck!


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## dleonard11122

JerseyGreens said:


> Tilling it a big no-no unless you go back over and compact it back down with something like a CAT Skid.
> 
> Probably why you have the bumps.
> 
> You can always level now like you stated - good luck!


Yeah, it did get compacted back down a bit with the tractor I was using to pull the large pallet around. After that, I was able to pull the pallet with my mower and it was significantly firmer.

I knew tilling would mess up the grade a little, but in my case it was already jacked and I had introduced a bunch of compaction by creating tons of deep ruts in the spring. I should have just waited until summer to do the patio when the ground was firmer but oh well.


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## JerseyGreens

After looking through a bunch of lawn reno journals and being a fan of Ryan Knorr - I'm thinking of adding a low mow PRG to the lawn reno...KBG/PRG stripes are absolutely stunning.

What do you guys think?


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## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> After looking through a bunch of lawn reno journals and being a fan of Ryan Knorr - I'm thinking of adding a low mow PRG to the lawn reno...KBG/PRG stripes are absolutely stunning.
> 
> What do you guys think?


I think it will add more thickness to the lawn. I'm actually thinking about doing it in my shady/slope area. My experience in ryegrass is that it gets a bunch of seed heads in the spring compared to my bluegrass. They said PGR can suppress it but I haven't tried PGR last spring before seed heads starts to pop out.


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## JerseyGreens

Going 100% Mono and will see how things shape up next Spring.

Just gave it a cut - first round of GLY going down early AM tomorrow.

How is your kill coming along?


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## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Going 100% Mono and will see how things shape up next Spring.
> 
> Just gave it a cut - first round of GLY going down early AM tomorrow.
> 
> How is your kill coming along?


It's been 2 days already since I sprayed glyphosate. Yesterday I don't see a big difference. Today I see a very little browning. I started watering this morning. My neighbor cut down a big tree that covers a lot of my backyard, now I have a very little shade on the spot where I plan to test the Mazama. I will still have a small area to test the Mazama mono and a Bluebank mono, just for the sake of testing it. But mostly, I will be mixing a 50% Mazama and 50% Bluebank.


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## JerseyGreens

I think you will be happy with that mix.

Not sure if you follow Ryan Knorr on youtube but he reno'd with Mazama, and Bluebank...he loves both but said the Mazama was a shade darker in color.

Keep in mind that side of his yard only gets 2-3 hours of sunlight.

I'm not worried about having a 100% BlueBank turf.


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## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> I think you will be happy with that mix.
> 
> Not sure if you follow Ryan Knorr on youtube but he reno'd with Mazama, and Bluebank...he loves both but said the Mazama was a shade darker in color.
> 
> Keep in mind that side of his yard only gets 2-3 hours of sunlight.
> 
> I'm not worried about having a 100% BlueBank turf.


I watched that video where he tested bluebank, mazama and midnight. I was also reviewing the ntep sheets, bluebank has 6.7 while mazama has 7.7 in genetic color so it just makes sense.


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## JerseyGreens

makes great sense.

I only leaned to BlueBank due to my recurring issues with Fungus in my area.


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## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> makes great sense.
> 
> I only leaned to BlueBank due to my recurring issues with Fungus in my area.


I'm sure you'll get the best result from a Bluebank mono. I'm excited to see how it turns out.


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## JerseyGreens

Point of no return for me is tomorrow AM folks!

Looked at the eraser label and it says 1G per 300 sq feet...no chance I can take that Gal to K ratio...I would be refilling 4.3 times!

Eraser already has a surfactant in it - I plan on watering it in 2-3 hours after its dry.

Would you guys really follow the recommendation ratio per Gallon here or go with your normal calibration?


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## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Point of no return for me is tomorrow AM folks!
> 
> Looked at the eraser label and it says 1G per 300 sq feet...no chance I can take that Gal to K ratio...I would be refilling 4.3 times!
> 
> Eraser already has a surfactant in it - I plan on watering it in 2-3 hours after its dry.
> 
> Would you guys really follow the recommendation ratio per Gallon here or go with your normal calibration?


I asked the same question in the Lawn renovation guide . I ended up using 7ounce/gallon/1K sqft as recommended by @g-man. I also added 1 ounce of surfactant per gallon since I'm not sure if knockout have surfactant.


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## g-man

You can go lower too. 4oz/g/ksqft will work. Spike it with AMS to lower the water pH and increase uptake.


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## shadowlawnjutsu

g-man said:


> You can go lower too. 4oz/g/ksqft will work. Spike it with AMS to lower the water pH and increase uptake.


What's AMS?


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## g-man

Ammonium Sulfate (21-0-0). A fast release nitrogen.


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## JerseyGreens

Thanks @g-man !

I know coverage definitely matters - so you're saying definitely stick to 1G = 1K here?

With my calibration I'm usually at .615G per K.

4G sprayer / 6,500 sq feet.


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## g-man

For this more water is better. If you are planing on a single gly application, then try to do 2 tanks (8G) into the 6ksqft. Multiple gly applications, then you can take the risk of what gets missed in the first go around, you will catch in the second, third, ...


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## JerseyGreens

You got it - 2 tanks it is! I did a 2 tank split for my fungicide and it worked out well. I'll do the same here.

Thanks!


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## Jconnelly6b

Interested to see how this turns out! Best of luck. Below is a link for Ammonium Sulfate that I use during gly apps, I use one TBS/gal.

Amazon: Ammonium Sulfate


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## JerseyGreens

Jconnelly6b said:


> Interested to see how this turns out! Best of luck. Below is a link for Ammonium Sulfate that I use during gly apps, I use one TBS/gal.
> 
> Amazon: Ammonium Sulfate


Thanks for the link - just purchased. I'll use it on my 2nd app.

Went heavy with this one plus put Milo down at bag rate I want to say 10 days ago...Grass is growing like crazy as the Milo is taking into effect. I think it will be a great kill.

Will use AMS on the next few rounds...

Just realized I need another Gal or 2 or Eraser...crazy how quick 128oz can get used up. I put a serious dent in it this morning.


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## JerseyGreens

Nice soaking t-storm just passed through...perfect to get that GLY worked into the plant.

It was well past dry fast at this point.


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## JerseyGreens

Side kill looks decent...some Clover is FIGHTING to stay alive.

2nd app is this Weds (1 week from first).

Going to follow the 1G per 300sq feet and go HEAVY on the GLY - there is absolutely no chance at residual GLY in the soil affecting seed germination right?

Also just got the AMS delivered - will add that to the next cocktail.


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## JerseyGreens

Looks like I started the scalping process too late - most of the lawn has matted down.

Since I'm covering the entire area with topsoil, any foreseeable issues with having basically a layer of dead grass, hay, at this point sandwiched under my new grass growing?

Have to assume it's just OM breaking down into the soil but wanted to ask.


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## Joy83

Hi I'm in northern NJ in Emerson and just applied my first round of glypho on Jul 18. Going with a 40/30/30 of Mazama, bewitched, and bluebank. Excited to see how your mono comes out!


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## KoopHawk

Good luck Jersey! I think you'll be really happy with it. I planted a Bluebank Mono this spring. Today is day 54 after seed down and it is filling in quite well despite some crazy heat/wind early on. I snapped a couple of pics. The mature green color is really starting to take over and I still have some whitening from my follow up Tenacity application. Top growth has been slow following an application of propiconazole with its growth regulation side effect. I snapped a couple of pics after the 2nd mow at 1.75". The dark spot in the 2nd pic is the darkest, thickest spot in the yard. 3rd pic is a close up of that area. Can't wait to see it take off once we get some cooler fall temps.


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## JerseyGreens

Wow. Looks great for being such a young lawn!

You pulled that off as a Spring Reno!? Great results. Making me very excited. What was your seeding rate?

2.5 - 3lbs per K?

@KoopHawk


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## KoopHawk

JerseyGreens said:


> Wow. Looks great for being such a young lawn!
> 
> You pulled that off as a Spring Reno!? Great results. Making me very excited. What was your seeding rate?
> 
> 2.5 - 3lbs per K?
> 
> @KoopHawk


New construction and I couldn't get it past the boss to wait until fall to seed. She wanted to kids to be able to play in the yard this year. I've been pleasantly surprised. The extended forecast when I planted was for high 70s and low 80s. Perfect right? Day 4 was 95 degrees and it didn't dip below 98 degrees for 6 days after that and 20+ mph winds to boot. Lots of dragging hoses around to supplement the irrigation system. I was beat.

I ended up being right around 2.5 lbs per k. I think that is a good rate. Bumping it up to 3 lbs might not be a bad idea if you want to have it thicker quicker. It really is filling in nicely at 2.5 lbs tho.


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## JerseyGreens

I'm so glad you wrote on my Reno journal. Do you have a journal of your own? I want to see this baby grow!

I have full sun just like you and I cannot wait for it to come in.


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## Kiza

Where did you get the topsoil from?


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## JerseyGreens

Topsoil Pros. Owner's name is Jeff.

It's being spread now. Looks like real good stuff.


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## JerseyGreens

Go time.


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## gm560

JerseyGreens said:


> Go time.


This is when you crack a white claw and watch someone else do the work.

Feels like 98 and no cover in sight. :shock:


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## JerseyGreens

I got them pizza and cold drinks. They napped under my Oak Tree.

I told them to finish tomorrow if it's too hot. They are just plowing through it. I would def not be able to do this.


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## jrubb42

JerseyGreens said:


> Go time.


Holy shit. That's a lot of topsoil haha. Good luck man. I'm rooting for you from a far!


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## JerseyGreens

Ended up being 40+ CY on 6,500sq feet.

Went on nice and thick.

Now I have to fallow the heck out of it. That's a lot of soil for stuff to sneak in. Good thing the temps are so high in NJ that we are nowhere near Safe Seed Down day.


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## JerseyGreens

Nice seed bed waiting for the KBG!

Fallow time.


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## shadowlawnjutsu

Looking good @JerseyGreens!


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## KoopHawk

Looks awesome! Hopefully no downpours from now until September  Do you have irrigation? And since I am fully invested in your reno now, is it really your plan to put down 8.5 lbs N per K from seed down to Thanksgiving? Can it handle that much N? The reason I ask is I am only planning on putting down around 6 lbs N per K and I have an 11 week head start on you.

Giving mine another cut tonight. We've gotten some nice cool nights with mid-80s for highs. The top growth is really starting to take off and the color is maturing nicely.


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## JerseyGreens

Hopefully no downpours is right!!

@KoopHawk I'm going to rethink the N per K amounts as I'm going to strictly us CX GRN for my spoon-feeding. Found it at a good price locally.

Between pushing the growth and fall blitz I'll end up around 6 - 8.5 N per K before Thanksgiving.


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## KoopHawk

I've been spraying .25lb of urea weekly and will continue thru fall. I also have a milo app and an app of 10-0-20 planned in the next couple of weeks. That'll put me at just under 4lb of N per K from August till winter.


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## gm560

JerseyGreens said:


> Hopefully no downpours is right!!
> 
> @KoopHawk I'm going to rethink the N per K amounts as I'm going to strictly us CX GRN for my spoon-feeding. Found it at a good price locally.
> 
> Between pushing the growth and fall blitz I'll end up around 6 - 8.5 N per K before Thanksgiving.


I think that is too much fertilizer, especially for seedlings, but probably for mature, too.


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## JerseyGreens

Just went back and checked my first page - yeah it's way too much N.

I'm going to redo my fert rates once I pick up the CX.


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## KoopHawk

gm560 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully no downpours is right!!
> 
> @KoopHawk I'm going to rethink the N per K amounts as I'm going to strictly us CX GRN for my spoon-feeding. Found it at a good price locally.
> 
> Between pushing the growth and fall blitz I'll end up around 6 - 8.5 N per K before Thanksgiving.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that is too much fertilizer, especially for seedlings, but probably for mature, too.
Click to expand...

Glad I am not the only one. I know new grass craves N but that seemed a bit excessive.


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## JerseyGreens

Yup. Def too much N planned.

Going to cut back considerably.

@KoopHawk why did you go liquid and not granular?


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## Kiza

Did you mix the old soil with the new or just spread the new soil on top. If the latter, aren't you basically creating two layers of soil or soil stratification? From my understanding, when your grass germinates, it will grow fairly well, then it will start dying. There's enough good topsoil there so that enough of the water gets trapped at the top new soil layer, leading to shallow roots and the grass eventually gets rotted from the bottom up. Does anyone know more about that phenomenon?


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## JerseyGreens

I did not mix the two together and that stratification happens when you layer two extremely variant types of soil such as silty clay with loamy sand.

I checked the paperwork on this topsoil and it closely resembles my native soil type: mineral clay loam. The topsoil is sandy clay loam which is OK as that sand will help with leveling.

I'm not concerned at all especially since my native soil was not compacted. I just stuck a soil probe down 8inches without any pushback. Those roots will have no issue working themselves down.

The soil gurus here can jump in here as well.


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## bf7

I am following this journal closely as I am also doing a 100% KBG reno. My area is about 9.5k sq ft and I am going with 33% Prosperity / 33% Moonlight SLT / 33% Blue Velvet. I strongly considered Bluebank.

I ordered about 10 yards of topsoil to level, spreading myself. Your soil looks better than mine. I agree with you that if the topsoil brought in matches your native soil, shouldn't have issues, especially if you are keeping up with your humic apps and don't have compaction.


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## JerseyGreens

No pressure with so many people keeping an eye on me now!

@bf7

How out of level is that 9.5k SQ feet? That 10 yards will go on very thin but still add great OM. Nice seed mix you got going there!

Do you have a journal?


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## bf7

LOL no jounral yet but I've been thinking about it. I don't think I take enough pics.

It's not terribly bumpy but definitely needs some work. Most areas just need .25 - .5 in, but others need 1-2 in. I will absolutely need more topsoil. The 10 yards was just my initial order to see where it got me.

Below are what little pics I've taken so far...my first gly app was on 6/29. First pic is back yard one week after kill, also shows my makeshift above ground irrigation system. Second is on 7/15. I've done 3 gly apps so far as well as power rake and scalp multiple times. Third pic is a bad angle view of my topsoil in the driveway.

What made you choose Bluebank if you don't mind me asking? The charts on SSS comparing the various KBG varieties that they sell caught my attention. Bluebank seems like an all pro.


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## JerseyGreens

Kill looks good. You are primed for that topsoil now!

I went with BlueBank due to its better grades for Fungus resistance. No such thing as fungus resistance by any means but its highly rated in that category - which I deal with a lot in my neighborhood.

Color, texture, turf quality all grade very high but the fungus resistance tipped the scale for me.

It was a toss up between BB and Mazama.


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## KoopHawk

JerseyGreens said:


> Yup. Def too much N planned.
> 
> Going to cut back considerably.
> 
> @KoopHawk why did you go liquid and not granular?


Is the XGRN 8-1-8? Make sure you're not putting down too much K too.

I went liquid (Urea) so I could get more even coverage with such small amounts of fertilizer. And I've been spraying fungicides and herbicides too so it is one less step to throw Urea in there too. A couple weeks ago I put down .25 N of 10-10-10 granular and you can tell the coverage can't be great due to the small amounts.


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## Kiza

JerseyGreens said:


> I did not mix the two together and that stratification happens when you layer two extremely variant types of soil such as silty clay with loamy sand.
> 
> I checked the paperwork on this topsoil and it closely resembles my native soil type: mineral clay loam. The topsoil is sandy clay loam which is OK as that sand will help with leveling.
> 
> I'm not concerned at all especially since my native soil was not compacted. I just stuck a soil probe down 8inches without any pushback. Those roots will have no issue working themselves down.
> 
> The soil gurus here can jump in here as well.


Sounds good :thumbup:


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## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> Kill looks good. You are primed for that topsoil now!
> 
> I went with BlueBank due to its better grades for Fungus resistance. No such thing as fungus resistance by any means but its highly rated in that category - which I deal with a lot in my neighborhood.
> 
> Color, texture, turf quality all grade very high but the fungus resistance tipped the scale for me.
> 
> It was a toss up between BB and Mazama.


Thanks! I wanted to go monostand but had trouble landing on a single cultivar that I really loved. I ended up going with the blend for the supposed added disease resistance - each cultivar is from a different bluegrass family (Prosperity: Compact America, Moonlight SLT: Compact, Blue Velvet: Compact Midnight). And based on my research these are some of the "bluest" bluegrasses available which was an aesthetic quality important to me. Their NTEP scores were also solid in PA.

My only real deterrent from Bluebank was I couldn't find many pics of an established lawn, guessing because it's relatively new. I'm sure it will look amazing.


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## JerseyGreens

KoopHawk said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. Def too much N planned.
> 
> Going to cut back considerably.
> 
> @KoopHawk why did you go liquid and not granular?
> 
> 
> 
> Is the XGRN 8-1-8? Make sure you're not putting down too much K too.
> 
> I went liquid (Urea) so I could get more even coverage with such small amounts of fertilizer. And I've been spraying fungicides and herbicides too so it is one less step to throw Urea in there too. A couple weeks ago I put down .25 N of 10-10-10 granular and you can tell the coverage can't be great due to the small amounts.
Click to expand...

All valid points - safe to say that I need more advice/need to rethink my spoon-feeding and fall N blitz over the next few weeks. I'm thinking it will have to be a combination of XGRN, Urea (granular or liquid), and Organic N (OceanGro).

@g-man followed your latest reno, do you recap what you applied to your backyard reno on one comment? Looked through it - you put down AMS (assume liquid), Urea, XGRN, MAP - on top of Axozy and Tenacity. If you put it one spot that would be insanely helpful!

This definitely isn't easy!


----------



## g-man

I'm not sure I understand the request. I used all those products, but not all at once.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@g-man not a request wondering if I missed it in your journal.

Did you recap your spoon feeding/Fungicide/herbicide regime on one comment? If not its fine I'll just take notes by looking through your reno posts and timestamps. You note DAG on each one so it won't be too hard.


----------



## gm560

g-man said:


> I'm not sure I understand the request. I used all those products, but all at once.


I think you meant not all at once? Hoping to avoid a disaster, haha.


----------



## g-man

gm560 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I understand the request. I used all those products, but all at once.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you meant not all at once? Hoping to avoid a disaster, haha.
Click to expand...

Yes, typo. Not all at once.


----------



## gm560

This what you are looking for @JerseyGreens?

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=254404#p254404

The DAG area covers it in general terms, but I think what you are asking for in terms of Fungicides, soil amendments, would depend more on your specific situation... ie soil, weather, etc which of which is unknown at this point in time.


----------



## JerseyGreens

gm560 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I understand the request. I used all those products, but all at once.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you meant not all at once? Hoping to avoid a disaster, haha.
Click to expand...

Haha that would definitely be a disaster.

It's beautiful seeing and making irrigation adjustments when fallowing topsoil. Very easy to see. Seeing spots that are being watered too heavily and others too lightly. Hope I don't have to change out heads to make everything sing right.


----------



## g-man

Oh, during the weeks after the Reno.

- Fast N weekly at around 0.25lb of N/ksqft. Mostly AMS than urea. I do it in granular (1lb ams/ksqft).

- my soil P is low, so I use MAP for P. I think I did 0.5lb of P/ksqft 2 weeks apart.

- tenacity at seed down, (30days was my plan but weeds pressure was low), and then prodiamine at 60day.

I think I did propi for rust. No preventive fungicides.

I did use xgrn at some point too.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> Oh, during the weeks after the Reno.
> 
> - Fast N weekly at around 0.25lb of N/ksqft. Mostly AMS than urea. I do it in granular (1lb ams/ksqft).
> 
> - my soil P is low, so I use MAP for P. I think I did 0.5lb of P/ksqft 2 weeks apart.
> 
> - tenacity at seed down, (30days was my plan but weeds pressure was low), and then prodiamine at 60day.
> 
> I think I did propi for rust. No preventive fungicides.
> 
> I did use xgrn at some point too.


BINGO - thank you man! @g-man


----------



## KoopHawk

@JerseyGreens

I am not seeing any yellowing and the color is coming along nicely. It is also filling in better than I was hoping at this point. The light green is the younger color and the darker green areas are the more mature color. The camera really doesn't do it justice IMO. It really seems to highlight the little Tenacity bleaching that is left, especially in the foreground. Looks much better in person! The forecast is calling for 70s for highs and low 50s for lows over the next 7-10 days. It should really take off if that holds true. Also the bare spot towards the top was much bigger a month ago. It is filling in really well. I thought I might have to reseed that area but by the end of the growing season I expect it to fill in itself. If I get some time this weekend I'll try to put everything together in a journal. I've been trying to take pictures along the way. I am on day 62 (since seed down) and I am extremely happy with Bluebank up to this point.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Looks great. what kind of rig are you spraying all of that with weekly?


----------



## KoopHawk

Just a standard NorthStar 21 gallon tow behind sprayer. Takes me about 20 minutes to spray, 10 min of prep and 10 min to cleanup.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200646314_200646314


----------



## JerseyGreens

Nice! I'm on the edge of buying a reel mower...and converting some of my hillier/unused portions of my yard into wildflower / wild grass mix...sort of like what you have in the back of your yard.


----------



## uts

Following this closely.. 40 yards of topsoil .. yard of premium topsoil here goes for $40... I need to reconsider my lawn budget.. lol


----------



## JerseyGreens

uts said:


> Following this closely.. 40 yards of topsoil .. yard of premium topsoil here goes for $40... I need to reconsider my lawn budget.. lol


Same here. I just got very lucky with finding an extremely cheap price.

I just planted a small area of extra grass seed I had laying around. If it all germinates then I got a steal.


----------



## JerseyGreens

...hope my wife doesn't know about this journal yet...

Just bought myself a Swardman Electra 55cm.

Shh....


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> ...hope my wife doesn't know about this journal yet...
> 
> Just bought myself a Swardman Electra 55cm.
> 
> Shh....


Wow, that's exciting!


----------



## JerseyGreens

I just rolled my Reno area with a lawn roller - half full of water. Some portions were a breeze to push down. Looks great.

Other areas...were compressing nearly 2-3 inches and very wet.

I'm guessing it's just air pockets/normal settling of new dirt. The areas that were very wet did have more topsoil put down in those areas as to level low spots.

Should I be concerned? I'll take all the pointers I can get!


----------



## bf7

I'm having this issue too with the settling of new soil after several days. Almost like I'm back where I started with low spots. I just keep adding dirt / re-leveling.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> I'm having this issue too with the settling of new soil after several days. Almost like I'm back where I started with low spots. I just keep adding dirt / re-leveling.


@bf7 are those areas staying wetter than others?


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having this issue too with the settling of new soil after several days. Almost like I'm back where I started with low spots. I just keep adding dirt / re-leveling.
> 
> 
> 
> @bf7 are those areas staying wetter than others?
Click to expand...

Not noticably wet (no puddles) but I can see some cracks in those spots leading me to believe extra moisture is collecting there. I think the areas become compacted from the water and then expand when they dry, creating the cracks. Adding more soil or shifting around existing soil helps. I'm glad I started early to catch these things.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Good idea. I'm going to pull back on the fallow sprinkler settings I have running on my rachio.

Let it dry out a bit and hit it with my level rake.


----------



## JerseyGreens

I might rent of these for the day and truly get a level surface before seed down...

https://www.hercrentals.com/us/rentals/compaction-paving//rollers.html

Yes...it "may" compact my soil but that is exactly what I need to do with all of my new soil. Plus these machines are not super heavy either.

Would prefer if I could pay a landscaper to do this but most of them said they have to rent it any way (adding to their quoted price).

Anyone have experience with using one of these?


----------



## KoopHawk

I don't think I would want to compact the soil that much using one of those machines. My soil was so packed down from the grading and leveling that I had to rent a soil conditioner to even get seed in the ground. I think I would continue with your roller then rake to even the low spots as best as possible.

If the areas are overly wet, you may not be compacting the soil much but maybe just moving the water around?


----------



## JerseyGreens

KoopHawk said:


> I don't think I would want to compact the soil that much using one of those machines. My soil was so packed down from the grading and leveling that I had to rent a soil conditioner to even get seed in the ground. I think I would continue with your roller then rake to even the low spots as best as possible.
> 
> If the areas are overly wet, you may not be compacting the soil much but maybe just moving the water around?


I'm torn at this point TBH. Let's see how much I get quoted a price to get this done.

If the price isn't right then it's a pass.

It's not overly wet/muddy at all...but for being in the 90s it shouldn't be wet. Just acting like an airy sponge right now until it gets fully compacted.

Pointers for those in the future who read this - go with a contractor using a skid steer if you are throwing down 2 inches+ of topsoil...you will get a cheaper price (my guys were nearly equal) and get that little bit of extra machine compaction that would be beneficial in helping speed up the settling of new topsoil.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Just got .36 inches of rain in 17 minutes at my neighbor's weather station. Ohh...my...


----------



## JerseyGreens

Well. What a crappy day.

You guys won't believe this but I just had a visiting nurse think my entire front yard was pavement and she did a 360 on it.

I don't even know where to begin...


----------



## OnTheLawn

Holy smokes! That's such a shame, but hopefully things dry out quickly. Should get sun here this afternoon and all of tomorrow.


----------



## JerseyGreens

I get that the driveway and yard were reflecting due to water but she didn't realize it 3 feet in that hey my wheels are spinning????

She better have liability insurance because I'm not paying to get this fixed!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

That's so irritating! I guess the nurse wanted to park near the entrance and didn't realize it's the lawn.


----------



## JerseyGreens

I guess that's what she was thinking but...

I'll talk to the agency - they should have property damage of others insurance sublimit on their policy. God knows how many sprinkler heads she hit (if any).


----------



## KoopHawk

LOL Oh no!!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Good thing the earth is forgiving by nature...everything is fixable...

Have to wait a bit before I can check if she damaged my irrigation system - that could be expensive if any underground pipes got fudged up...


----------



## jrubb42

Holy shit. Man... That is unreal. Connor ward had some similar stuff happen with his last reno. Be glad it didn't happen with seed down already. You at least have the opportunity to fix it this way.

Just looked at the photo again. Just wow. She literally drove all the way through you yard. She's definitely not the brightest bulb on the tree. You have a right to be frustrated.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@wardconnor did I outdo the Suburban making a U-turn on your Reno area? See above.

Mine only happened during a freaking Tropical Storm...


----------



## MJR12284

Wow - that is unreal. Just....incredible stupidity. Thankfully you have some time to fix it and she didn't do this after seed down!


----------



## JerseyGreens

jrubb42 said:


> Holy s---. Man... That is unreal. Connor ward had some similar stuff happen with his last reno. Be glad it didn't happen with seed down already. You at least have the opportunity to fix it this way.
> 
> Just looked at the photo again. Just wow. She literally drove all the way through you yard. She's definitely not the brightest bulb on the tree. You have a right to be frustrated.


Legit unreal. Like you can't make this up. It happened in slo-mo too. I opened my front door like what is happening and she just continued on...kept going...reminded me of our college days doing donuts in snowstorms...I'm still baffled at what happened...


----------



## KoopHawk

She was just trying to help you pack down that new topsoil!!


----------



## JerseyGreens

KoopHawk said:


> She was just trying to help you pack down that new topsoil!!


You know what - she must follow my journal...I was asking about how to compact the soil down in spongy areas...guess she did me a favor!?


----------



## JerseyGreens

I'll probably rent a harley rake this weekend + 5 yards or so of extra soil and fix the mess...

I know it's awesome to fallow soil but I might get seed down too after the harley rake...can deal with the weeds with tenacity. I don't want to deal with a mess like this again...

And - Do Not Enter signage is definitely going up around the perimeter.


----------



## MJR12284

What did you end up going with to level the topsoil you put down? I saw you mentioned a skid steer. Or did you decide on the Harley? How many inches did you end up putting down? I've got 4200 sq ft that I'll need at least 1 inch for and then more in some places. Do you think asking my soul guy to use a skid steer is worth it?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Great question.

In some areas I went thick - some low spots easily got 3+inches. If I had to do it all over again I'd Harley rake the entire yard first and relevel as much as possible with existing soil. Then come in with an even 1.5-2.5inch of topsoil across the board.

I'm going to rent a Bobcat MT85 with a soil conditioner attachment (closely resembles a Harley rake) and rework the entire Reno area. Also bringing in 5 more yards of soil for the famous donut on my front yard...

Once I have a good level on everything I'll just go to town with that bobcat. Use it's tracks to compact everything down. Then I'll add a nice serving of Humic acid and sit back/fallow.

I'm putting caution tape up during the fallow stage. Sad I have to do that but I can't afford another idiot driving on the semi-finished product.


----------



## JerseyGreens

MJR12284 said:


> What did you end up going with to level the topsoil you put down? I saw you mentioned a skid steer. Or did you decide on the Harley? How many inches did you end up putting down? I've got 4200 sq ft that I'll need at least 1 inch for and then more in some places. Do you think asking my soul guy to use a skid steer is worth it?


I never answered your question - I originally had guys bust their tails and do it by hand. Did a great job but I had uneven settling / compaction of the topsoil. I vote use machinery and actually compact it in place - especially if you plan on going thick with the new topsoil.


----------



## Jconnelly6b

JerseyGreens said:


> Once I have a good level on everything I'll just go to town with that bobcat. Use it's tracks to compact everything down. Then I'll add a nice serving of Humic acid and sit back/fallow.


On Matt Martin Q&A sunday evening he mentioned humic acid has a detrimental effect on seedlings. He also mentioned he pulled it from all his products because they didn't notice any positive effects.

I'll look later and see if I can find any articles on it, but wanted to at least share with you.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Jconnelly6b said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once I have a good level on everything I'll just go to town with that bobcat. Use it's tracks to compact everything down. Then I'll add a nice serving of Humic acid and sit back/fallow.
> 
> 
> 
> On Matt Martin Q&A sunday evening he mentioned humic acid has a detrimental effect on seedlings. He also mentioned he pulled it from all his products because they didn't notice any positive effects.
> 
> I'll look later and see if I can find any articles on it, but wanted to at least share with you.
Click to expand...

Thanks for letting me know about this. The science behind Humic acid has always been mixed. At my old house I could swear by it helping turn that lawn around. If the Bobcat doesn't do much compaction then I shall skip the Humic acid.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Key reason why the regulars like @g-man say do not skip the fallow step.



There is only so much Tenacity can do - these looks like nuts(edge) hidden in the soil - they can live for a long time in that soil.


----------



## g-man

It looks like crabgrass, but it doesn't matter. Gly all of that.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> It looks like crabgrass, but it doesn't matter. Gly all of that.


Ah Gotcha.

We've had our fair share of spotty T-storms. Trying to figure out when to hit it with GLY.

From your experience how rainfast is GLY with AMS?


----------



## g-man

4hrs is the norm. In reality 1hr on a sunny day.


----------



## OnTheLawn

Jconnelly6b said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once I have a good level on everything I'll just go to town with that bobcat. Use it's tracks to compact everything down. Then I'll add a nice serving of Humic acid and sit back/fallow.
> 
> 
> 
> On Matt Martin Q&A sunday evening he mentioned humic acid has a detrimental effect on seedlings. He also mentioned he pulled it from all his products because they didn't notice any positive effects.
> 
> I'll look later and see if I can find any articles on it, but wanted to at least share with you.
Click to expand...

If you do find anything, definitely tag me in it as well! I listened to that Q&A and he's mentioned it another time as well about the seedlings ability to utilize the available phosphorous, or something along those lines. The way Ryan talked about it on the Q&A was like Humic acid devours the available phos and the plant can't utilize it. They didn't go into much detail and apparently there was a Carbon Earth newsletter that went out about it, but I can't find that newsletter.

I'm curious about this mainly because I'll be using the N-EXT seeding pack, which has an app of Humic and RGS two weeks prior to seed down, as well as an app of RGS at seed down. Now I'm not sure if there's a difference when the sea kelp is added to the Humic, which is what RGS is. Hopefully can find more details on this.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@OnTheLawn I would recommend sticking to what you are comfortable with doing. Lots of people put down RGS at seeding. If there was anything catastrophic about doing that this Community would have shared it by now.

If there is scientific truth behind P getting locked up by humic acid then you counteract that with dropping starter fert at seed down.


----------



## Jconnelly6b

To be practical, sometimes I think "how have things worked before?"

Seed has been germinating on its own for millions of years without any chemical assistance. We only add starter fert because we remove all the decaying organic matter that would otherwise be in the soil (leaves, last years tall uncut grass that decomposed in the spring, etc) and those would provide a great amount of phosphorus and nitrogen.

The little seeds have all the food the grass plant needs to germinate and start growing. As long as your aren't sowing seeds in a cooked clay oven, they will grow.

Just to keep in mind the base condition that has existed forever.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Jconnelly6b said:


> To be practical, sometimes I think "how have things worked before?"
> 
> Seed has been germinating on its own for millions of years without any chemical assistance. We only add starter fert because we remove all the decaying organic matter that would otherwise be in the soil (leaves, last years tall uncut grass that decomposed in the spring, etc) and those would provide a great amount of phosphorus and nitrogen.
> 
> The little seeds have all the food the grass plant needs to germinate and start growing. As long as your aren't sowing seeds in a cooked clay oven, they will grow.
> 
> Just to keep in mind the base condition that has existed forever.


All solid points for those that are watching this reno journal closely.

Key reminder is - don't overthink things too much, I sure was for awhile...hell you can see me bouncing around all over the place on this journal...

Everyone in my town now thinks I have lost my g'damn mind....I was compacting the front with a 1 Ton asphalt roller today - lots of fun. First of all it freaking worked great. Basically a hand roller on steroids. I'm going to finish up tomorrow and share pictures. My Dad was over and said I'm crazy for compacting it that much...took my soil probe and pulled a 5-6 inch core in 3 areas I went over with the roller. He was shocked.

Organic Matter > Compaction...always...Microorganisms at work in soil are a beautiful thing.

Stay tuned.


----------



## Zcape35

Looks like it is coming along! It's a shame about the car driving through the lawn. Were any irrigation lines messed up?
I'm basically at the same point as you with my Reno, fallowing and waiting for seed down.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Zcape35 said:


> Looks like it is coming along! It's a shame about the car driving through the lawn. Were any irrigation lines messed up?
> I'm basically at the same point as you with my Reno, fallowing and waiting for seed down.


Nope got super lucky. Lines are down 6-8inches and she got close to 3 heads but didn't run over any.

Sounds like her company is going to reimburse me for the added cost.


----------



## Zcape35

JerseyGreens said:


> Zcape35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like it is coming along! It's a shame about the car driving through the lawn. Were any irrigation lines messed up?
> I'm basically at the same point as you with my Reno, fallowing and waiting for seed down.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope got super lucky. Lines are down 6-8inches and she got close to 3 heads but didn't run over any.
> 
> Sounds like her company is going to reimburse me for the added cost.
Click to expand...

Maybe an eye exam is in her future lol


----------



## JerseyGreens

Here it is folks - the soil test. Everything looks good but I have to get the pH up. Was going to use Cal Turf Pro at 7.7Lbs per K 
- basically one bag. I want to target 10Lbs per K but really don't want to buy 2 bags!

(https://www.siteone.com/en/091001-cal-turf-pro-granular-soil-amendment-sgn-220-50-lb/p/152702)



Anything else I'm missing?

And yes, I'll probably skip a starter fert as all looks well.


----------



## OnTheLawn

Yep, definitely skip the starter fert. Even K is well up there. Cal Turf Pro should work well being calicitic and will bump that pH quickly before seed down if that's the plan. You're in decent range though so I think even if you held off until late fall to apply you'd be fine. Either way should work though.


----------



## JerseyGreens

After a long weekend playing around with an asphalt roller and more topsoil (heavy on sand/less compost) I fixed the mess left by the nurse.

After:


Before:


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Looks better! Have you started seeding?


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Looks better! Have you started seeding?


No sir. Unfortunately I will still fallow for another 7-10 days. Re-rolling the dirt probably shifted around a ton of weed seeds.

Your ETA is this week right?


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks better! Have you started seeding?
> 
> 
> 
> No sir. Unfortunately I will still fallow for another 7-10 days. Re-rolling the dirt probably shifted around a ton of weed seeds.
> 
> Your ETA is this week right?
Click to expand...

Yes, it's going to be this week. Probably on wednesday night. I think I'm done with fallowing. This morning I saw a tiny bits of weeds/grass in some area but It's not a lot. I sprayed them with gly. Today is the last day I spray with gly. Whatever is left, I hope tenacity will take care of it.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Right on. Sending green dust your way!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Right on. Sending green dust your way!


Thanks!

I have one question though. How do you apply AMS? I can't dissolve it completely. What I do is mix it in hot water and no matter how hard I mix it it doesn't dissolve completely. So I just get whatever liquid is in there and then filter out the solid parts.


----------



## Kiza

You could always lower the AMS concentration and spray it twice. There's a max on how many solutes you can mix into a solution.


----------



## JerseyGreens

^+1 just add less.

Also I'd highly recommend buying a drill bit paint stirrer. Works wonders when getting into spraying.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

I do have a drill bit stirrer, I'm trying to dilute 4 tbsp to a liter of water on a small bucket. So I guess I'll just lower the concentration. Thanks!


----------



## JerseyGreens

1 tbsp per Gallon!!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> 1 tbsp per Gallon!!


I was trying to dissolve it on a small amount of water before I mix it in to my sprayer that should contain 2 gallons. I still got the measurement wrong using 4 tbsp in 2 gallon sprayer. Will try to mix it in 2 Gallon/2tbsp.


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 tbsp per Gallon!!
> 
> 
> 
> I was trying to dissolve it on a small amount of water before I mix it in to my sprayer that should contain 2 gallons. I still got the measurement wrong using 4 tbsp in 2 gallon sprayer. Will try to mix it in 2 Gallon/2tbsp.
Click to expand...

No worries - it should definitely mix no problem now. Good luck!


----------



## MJR12284

JerseyGreens said:


> After a long weekend playing around with an asphalt roller and more topsoil (heavy on sand/less compost) I fixed the mess left by the nurse.
> 
> After:
> 
> 
> Before:


Great job fixing this mess. Looks ready for seed!


----------



## Biggylawns

You should put seed down tomorrow if you can. Weather forecast looks amazing for growing.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Thank you @MJR12284 ! Lots of work but I'll be renting one of these rollers every few years after the ground is done thawing to roll it out. Worked beautifully. Nicely compacted but I can stick a 8inch flathead through it with some pressure.

@Biggylawns target date is Saturday or Sunday!
8/12 Final sprinkler adjustments 
8/13 Scratching up 1/2 - 1inch of topsoil tomorrow/filling in any remaining low areas with topsoil. Bag Rate Humichar.
8/14 Final GLY App
8/15 or 8/16 Seed down!


----------



## ericgautier

Lots of hard work in here! :thumbup: Can't wait to see the progress.


----------



## bf7

I was also targeting Saturday or Sunday for seed down but it is supposed to rain all weekend here :x of course after we just went through a 10 day dry spell


----------



## JerseyGreens

Things change so quickly in the month of August weather wise. Got heavy Tstorms in forecast for Sunday which means I'm not gambling this weekend. Will push it another week.

More fun to grow/kill weeds.


----------



## OnTheLawn

Definitely push it off. Hoping the rain holds off here but even still I wouldn't risk it. I'm hoping to have my soil spread by Saturday night and then we'll see what the weather holds for Sunday. Like you said though, more opportunity for more crap to germinate and the temps are right where we want them for a while.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Things change so quickly in the month of August weather wise. Got heavy Tstorms in forecast for Sunday which means I'm not gambling this weekend. Will push it another week.
> 
> More fun to grow/kill weeds.


That is so true! I'll probably move the actual seeding if there's gonna be a heavy rain but I might throw down just a little bit of seeds to my problem area and some shaded areas just to get it started, no peat moss yet.


----------



## KoopHawk

It'll rain when you are ready to seed then a couple weeks afterwards you won't be able to buy any rain when you want it.


----------



## JerseyGreens

What do you guys think I should do to now break up the first 1/2 inch of soil?

I know many used drags mats back and forth.

Just went to town with a landscape rake. Scratching back and forth. Works the best but definitely back breaking stuff.

Maybe rent a slice seeder and just go on the deepest setting a few different ways?

Thanks!

Took about 5 minutes to do this patch. Tough work though.


----------



## OnTheLawn

Grab a manual dethatching rake and use the curved end. Works like a knife to break it up and loosen the soil. I wouldn't worry too much about it though. Are you adding a top dressing/peat moss?


----------



## JerseyGreens

OnTheLawn said:


> Grab a manual dethatching rake and use the curved end. Works like a knife to break it up and loosen the soil. I wouldn't worry too much about it though. Are you adding a top dressing/peat moss?


Ah yes dethatch rake would work much better.

Yup I'm topdressing with peat moss. I could technically throw the seed on the soil/roll/topdress. Fair point.


----------



## OnTheLawn

Oh then don't even worry. Get the dethatch rake anyway cause it works great. If I were you, and what I plan to do, is spread seed and then rake it in with the dethatching rake just to loosen up the soil and get the seed slightly covered. Then roll and cover with peat moss. Don't overthink it.


----------



## JerseyGreens

OnTheLawn said:


> Oh then don't even worry. Get the dethatch rake anyway cause it works great. If I were you, and what I plan to do, is spread seed and then rake it in with the dethatching rake just to loosen up the soil and get the seed slightly covered. Then roll and cover with peat moss. Don't overthink it.


Great point. I'm going to pick up a dethatch rake and get it loosened up with some good blood, sweat and tears. Looks fairly sharp. Should quicken things up for sure.

@ 6,500 sq feet I'm legitimately at the top end of doing a reno with manual labor - wheelbarrows, landscape rakes, etc...but hey I'm enjoying it!


----------



## OnTheLawn

6,500 Is a good size, but just for loosening soil and raking in, not terrible. For actual manual dethatching I would strongly advise against it haha. 1,400 sq ft made me want to lose my mind. But yea for what you need it for shouldn't be too bad.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Haha for sure that would be tedious!

This is just to get some soil broken up that's all. KBG really only needs to be in 1/8 inch of soil. I won't drive myself crazy. Soil looks compacted but I can easily get a flathead through everywhere.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Thank you @OnTheLawn for the recommendation!

Same 5 minutes of time. About triple the area vs just landscape rake.



Can you guys say incoming seed bed!!


----------



## OnTheLawn

Heck yea! Such a versatile tool for only $20.


----------



## MJR12284

Great suggestion. I have the same concern since I just spread my topsoil today and now plan to water and roll for the next 2 weeks. I'm thinking I will need to get out there with a dethatching or similar take to rough it up for seed down.

Looking great good luck with your seed down!


----------



## JerseyGreens

I can't begin to tell you how valuable renting that asphalt roller was for me. My yard is fully dry/drained in a few hours after some rain. Really compacted the new soil into the old. Whereas before it would be a spongy wet mess for over a day.


----------



## JerseyGreens

When you start getting a little OCD with the R&R level lawn.



I wish my Reno was less SQ feet. I really do. It would probably come out immaculate.


----------



## OnTheLawn

Looking great and ready for seed! My fine tune leveling is happening on Thursday and I'm dreading it because I'm such a dang perfectionist. Thankfully I don't have a Level Lawn and only a landscape rake haha. I'd be out there for 16 days with a LL.


----------



## Zcape35

Time for the marble test!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Wow, look at that levelling!


----------



## JerseyGreens

OnTheLawn said:


> Looking great and ready for seed! My fine tune leveling is happening on Thursday and I'm dreading it because I'm such a dang perfectionist. Thankfully I don't have a Level Lawn and only a landscape rake haha. I'd be out there for 16 days with a LL.


Oh man. It's going to come out I'm warning you. Then once you get sweat in your eyes you will just stop and go shower haha.

I can be out there all day with my level lawn. I live on a main road and people in town have coined me the dirt guy haha - I'd prefer lawn nut...but it's been just dirt for nearly a month now!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Zcape35 said:


> Time for the marble test!


Hmm never heard of that before. What is that?


----------



## Zcape35

[/quote]
Hmm never heard of that before. What is that?
[/quote]

A furniture company used to have commercials and they would show how nice and straight the couch seams were by rolling a marble down them. :lol: I guess you had to be there!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Can't catch a break. The entire seed bed was ready after hours of work yesterday...

And then this...



I'm just going to seed/roll/and move on. I can't keep leveling and re-leveling. Will deal with it via sand/compost...


----------



## JerseyGreens

I also cannot trust any weather sites right now because they are not picking up this odd T-storm pattern we are in...getting bombarded everyday, multiple times a day with a T-storm that go un-forecasted!


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> OnTheLawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking great and ready for seed! My fine tune leveling is happening on Thursday and I'm dreading it because I'm such a dang perfectionist. Thankfully I don't have a Level Lawn and only a landscape rake haha. I'd be out there for 16 days with a LL.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man. It's going to come out I'm warning you. Then once you get sweat in your eyes you will just stop and go shower haha.
> 
> I can be out there all day with my level lawn. I live on a main road and people in town have coined me the dirt guy haha - I'd prefer lawn nut...but it's been just dirt for nearly a month now!
Click to expand...

They are calling me the grass killer in my neighborhood. And after I put up caution tape by my hell strips, my neighbor made me a sign that said "keep off my f-ing dirt".

Your seed bed looks (looked?) great. Sorry about the storms. I lucked out. We got 1 inch of rain a few hours before I put seed down. It was never in the forecast. I was so close to throwing down seed the day before the rain - fortunately I didn't. Anyway, It hasn't rained since (and should be nothing in the near future), but the temperatures are not ideal. Looking at near 90 degree highs a week from now. Gonna have to crank up my water bill.


----------



## JerseyGreens

It's death by a 1000 cuts. Looked beautiful yesterday but I wanted to fallow another 7-10 days. Also noticed the high temps next week.

I might do what you did - seed down tomorrow or Friday into a nicely moist seed bed. Roll and move on. 
Either that or let everything re-harden and rake til the death of me later on!

I still have minor grading issues which is going to happen in the flattest of yards!


----------



## Zcape35

I feel like all you can do is give it your best effort. You could always fallow a little longer or level a little more. In the end you just gotta call it and "Throw er down"


----------



## bf7

Haha it really is a matter of picking your poison. I would highly recommend throwing it down after a heavy rain. I think it ended up working out perfectly, assuming you roll after seed. All the seed rolled right into the top 1/8 inch of mud and it is firmly entrenched in there now. I can walk all over yard without disturbing the seed. I feel like a heavy storm now wouldn't do much damage.

Also if you go that route, make sure to do a light raking before seed.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Legit poison...Baring anything absolutely crazy I'm seeding Friday. Just took the day off.

Hopefully its still a little "muddy" - if not, I'll run the sprinklers on the fallow quick run beforehand.

Will lightly drag my 48inch rake everywhere before throwing 'er down.
Might do GLY app tomorrow but honestly I'm to the point of dealing with the weeds later (let tenacity "highlight" them).


----------



## bf7

I had similar thoughts about the weeds. There were so few of them that I just spot sprayed 1 day before seed - no blanket apps since I killed the old grass. My biggest fear is poa triv seeds that I may have failed to fallow out. Tenacity won't control that.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> I had similar thoughts about the weeds. There were so few of them that I just spot sprayed 1 day before seed - no blanket apps since I killed the old grass. My biggest fear is poa triv seeds that I may have failed to fallow out. Tenacity won't control that.


Poa T by far will be the biggest pain come next spring if our topsoil has any it but you GLY it up and let the KBG fill in. Really the only thing I've found work on these forums from users.

That is the beauty of KBG. I've been a TTTF Guy my entire life... excited to grow a spreading grass type!


----------



## g-man

Drop the seeds. Don't let perfection get in the way of good enough. Spread the seeds and do one last gly app the day after if you want. The rest just trust that you handled the 95% of the weeds and will kill it next year.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> Drop the seeds. Don't let perfection get in the way of good enough. Spread the seeds and do one last gly app the day after if you want. The rest just trust that you handled the 95% of the weeds and will kill it next year.


Going down tomorrow - Pictures to follow!


----------



## Zcape35

Good luck, looking forward to some pics!!!


----------



## JerseyGreens

The time is near!


----------



## Zcape35

I see dirty hands and clothes in your future! lol


----------



## JerseyGreens

Zcape35 said:


> I see dirty hands and clothes in your future! lol


haha hands were already filthy by the time I left...there was a wide open ripped bag sitting there. I rummaged through it with my hands to make the quality checked out...pretty good stuff - didn't see too much crap in it.


----------



## Squire515

Hey JerseyGreens, hope your Reno is going well. I just joined this forum and read your journal, and I'm pretty sure I live down the block from you. On our evening walks I noticed another homeowner was doing a Reno, and the pictures of your yard look familiar.

Anyway, I just planted seed on the 18th. I planted 90% tttf shade mix and 10% Mazama KBG from seed superstore on 5500 sq ft, which is one side of my front lawn. A lot of bags of peat moss were ripped at the HD!

I didn't roll the seed in, instead I raked it in and covered with peat moss. I'm pretty sure that fluke thunderstorm washed my seed away, so if you happen to drive by a home that is half weeds and half patchy expensive grass and mud, that's me!


----------



## JerseyGreens

@Squire515 honestly the prep looks pretty good. That Tstorm was absolutely crazy. Way too much rain in less than 30mins. Hoping the pattern has changed.

Do you live on Stony Brook? We take evening walks as well but I would recognize a Reno if I saw one!


----------



## Squire515

Thank you, and yes I do. All the way at the end towards country club though, so you may not make it down this far.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to fill in a lot of bare spots in the next few weeks.

Did you plant your grass yet? The weather looks perfect.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Going down today. I'll be out there for the majority of the day. Feel free to drop by and say hello!


----------



## gm560

Game Day!


----------



## Squire515

Ah I'm at work all weekend, but good luck!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

gm560 said:


> Game Day!


Good luck @JerseyGreens!


----------



## KoopHawk

JerseyGreens said:


> Going down today. I'll be out there for the majority of the day. Feel free to drop by any say hello!


I see several cold beers in your future!


----------



## ludawg23

Good luck man - you got this!

Enjoy that cold beer once you're done!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Thank you guys!

Spent 4 hours hand raking to loosen up the top 1/4 inch. And yeah. I did some leveling again.

I see some weed pressure but I'll deal it with some other time. I may get gutsy and GLY tomorrow...if I can walk haha!!

Taking a halftime break.

Seed is weighed out. 
Roller is full of water and ready to go. 
Tenacity and Azoxy are on standby. 
And the dreaded peat moss cubes are staring me down at the goal line.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Stairway to Heaven.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Taking a quick break before peat moss time. Hope I'm done before daylight ends. Almost there...

Used a turbo teejet nozzle on the fly and ended up putting the Tenacity and Azoxy down HEAVY. At the upper limits of both application rates.

Do you guys think I'll be OK and some just washes out?


----------



## OnTheLawn

Oh heck yes!!! Best of luck sir, looking great so far. Weather should be nice for you as well.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Lol thanks. Oh heck yes to the stairway to heaven or my fudge up on the tenacity and Azoxy? Haha


----------



## OnTheLawn

For the stairway to heaven haha. As for the tenacity and azoxy, should be ok. The new grass may germinate with white tips but it should be fine.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

You really did a great job! Looks like you're gonna have a very good coverage.


----------



## JerseyGreens

No Reno would be complete without Peat moss running out. Also ran out of tackifier.





That's all folks. Let's see if the tenacity and Azoxy mess anything up.


----------



## JerseyGreens




----------



## OnTheLawn

Looking great! Did you spread peat moss by hand or did you use a spreader? Coverage looks great.


----------



## synergy0852

Looks great! Can't wait to see the results of all that hard work!


----------



## JerseyGreens

OnTheLawn said:


> Looking great! Did you spread peat moss by hand or did you use a spreader? Coverage looks great.


Started with one and ditched it. Did the rest by hand.

Exhausted...


----------



## JerseyGreens

Thank you @synergy0852 !


----------



## SNOWBOB11

It looks like you've done a excellent job. Very smooth and level.


----------



## Squire515

Looks great! What's your schedule look like with watering?

Right now I'm doing 20 mins per zone twice a day, but it's staying too wet I think.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Squire515 said:


> Looks great! What's your schedule look like with watering?
> 
> Right now I'm doing 20 mins per zone twice a day, but it's staying too wet I think.


Thank you!

That's a bit much if you ask me.

Trim it down to 4x per day and less time per zone.

I shoot for 5am/8am/11am/2pm/5pm/8pm
Roughly 5-7 mins per zone. Side yard gets like 3 mins because there are 6 heads in that small area.


----------



## bf7

Nice! Props for getting all that down in one day. The peat moss took me into the day after seeding. Yours looks nice and smooth.

For my areas in full sun with mid 80s temps and no rain, I'm actually needing to run 15-20 min per zone every 2.5 hours to keep everything moist. That being said I don't have in ground irrigation. I'm sure you've got everything down from your observations when fallowing.

1-4pm is extremely difficult for me to keep from drying out. I'm actually adding a middle of the night watering (abbreviated cycle) to help soak the soil some to hopefully carry into the next day. I'll stop this once I get germination.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Good job @bf7 for adding in that overnight soak. Should help a ton during the day for you.

I shouldn't have packed all this into one day to be honest. That's where I made the potentially major screw up with spraying...only time will tell...


----------



## bf7

You should be ok. Fungicides I don't think have much potential to harm. For Tenacity, I think as long as you didn't go way over the 8 oz per acre, there is nothing to worry about. If you were planning several more apps in the fall, you might just have to put down a little less for those so not to exceed the annual max.

My plan was to put down 5 oz per acre. I always go a little overboard with my front lawn and accidentally used 7.5 oz per acre or something like that. For the remainder I ended up using 4.5 oz per acre. Will let you know if growing conditions are any different in the overapplied zones.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> You should be ok. Fungicides I don't think have much potential to harm. For Tenacity, I think as long as you didn't go way over the 8 oz per acre, there is nothing to worry about. If you were planning several more apps in the fall, you might just have to put down a little less for those so not to exceed the annual max.
> 
> My plan was to put down 5 oz per acre. I always go a little overboard with my front lawn and accidentally used 7.5 oz per acre or something like that. For the remainder I ended up using 4.5 oz per acre. Will let you know if growing conditions are any different in the overapplied zones.


I pretty much did the same thing. Went very light on the other part of my yard. I'll know right away if something is wrong on the other side.

Looking out for your germ pics sometime soon!!


----------



## bf7

:thumbup: hoping to see green babies around end of weekend!


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> :thumbup: hoping to see green babies around end of weekend!


yup I think you will. Right around 6 days since seed down?

I give those without in-ground irrigation props on a day like today. It's 90 degrees with serious wind gusts. I'm letting the peat moss tell when it needs more water.

Still fine tuning GPM nozzle changes as the day progresses...Back is killing me...but...still...have to go on!

If I keep the soil wet with these super hot temps the next 2 days I'll (HOPEFULLY) be in good shape to see babies mid-week.


----------



## bf7

Yup day 6. I'm wondering if germ will be delayed a bit since I wasn't watering correctly the first 3 days. That didn't apply to every zone though - should at least see some sprouts tomorrow or Monday. The changes I made to sprinkler settings, frequency, and duration were game changers. The ground feels / looks much better. Chance of rain tomorrow too, albeit they are storms.

You're right - the watering is a huge PITA. 90 degrees here too. I'm running irrigation basically all daylight hours to cover the 10k sq ft. Thinking maybe I should have seeded different sections one at a time. Jealous of the in ground but the sprinkler timers are pretty legit!

I'm sure you're in great shape to have success.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Please stay South...


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

&#128591;&#127996;&#128591;&#127996;&#128591;&#127996;


----------



## KoopHawk

@JerseyGreens https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=16081


----------



## bf7

Did the storm hit you?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Not today. Stayed south.

Have to survive tomorrow and Tuesday. Showing T-storms. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Alex1389

Any germination yet??


----------



## JerseyGreens

At 3 days!?!?

Here is a practical joke...this is some sort of grassy weed so I believe. Or it's germ...idk.


----------



## JerseyGreens

All jokes aside with the soil temps it's going to happen quickly per my thoughts.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> At 3 days!?!?
> 
> Here is a practical joke...this is some sort of grassy weed so I believe. Or it's germ...idk.


I also got some little grassy weeds before I started to see some germination. Even in areas where I didn't use straw. I'm just hoping that tenacity will kill it later on. And I can see some are starting to turn yellow but not all.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Even if it doesn't as long as whatever comes out responds to GLY we should be fine down the line. Just GLY it and let KBG self repair.


----------



## Alex1389

JerseyGreens said:


> At 3 days!?!?
> 
> Here is a practical joke...this is some sort of grassy weed so I believe. Or it's germ...idk.


Ahh I thought you dropped seed earlier. Three days is too early. I'm not sure what that is that germinated though...


----------



## JerseyGreens

Alex1389 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> At 3 days!?!?
> 
> Here is a practical joke...this is some sort of grassy weed so I believe. Or it's germ...idk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh I thought you dropped seed earlier. Three days is too early. I'm not sure what that is that germinated though...
Click to expand...

Few guys doing Reno's this year threw down before me they all got germ.

I don't know what that is but I did throw a handful of a nomix to test the topsoil I put down a few weeks ago. Thought it washed out...guess it washed down to this area. I pulled most of it out that was in reach.

Getting excited for germ mid week!


----------



## bf7

Yeah, I was seeing them too about 3 or 4 days in. They are hard to tell apart from the good stuff. I've been hand pulling but I don't think that strategy will work much longer.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Nothing to report this AM.

Weeds coming up in the "heavy" tenacity + Azoxy area are germinating but getting toasted.

I don't think I'll see decreased germ there. Maybe some sprouts that are a bit bleached.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Game time again.


----------



## Squire515

Haha I'm playing the same game down the block! My trusted weather app, DarkSky, has been failing me miserably.

I planted tttf/KBG last Tuesday and have a decent amount of germination. However, is seems as though it only germinating in the areas that the peat moss washed to during that fluke storm.

How long would you wait to fill in the bare spots?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Squire515 said:


> Haha I'm playing the same game down the block! My trusted weather app, DarkSky, has been failing me miserably.
> 
> I planted tttf/KBG last Tuesday and have a decent amount of germination. However, is seems as though it only germinating in the areas that the peat moss washed to during that fluke storm.
> 
> How long would you wait to fill in the bare spots?


Been using 3 weather apps - none of them can be trusted this time of year...they are mostly failing me too.

Hmm - how long ago did you seed?
is the TTTF seperate from the KBG or in one mix? If the TTTF is separate no harm in throwing down in some bare areas. I'd still give it some time though - you seeded last week right?


----------



## Squire515

Looks like I need to start looking at other apps as well. I seeded last Tuesday, the 18th, and the KBG and tttf were in one mix. There are some spots that have zero signs of germination too. What a disaster.

Also, sorry I hijacked your journal with my questions.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Alright folks so I called Syngenta - maker of Tenacity. They said if I ended up at the upper rate of 8oz by accident on my lawn Reno I should be fine. They leave in a buffer on those ranges.

If in 3 weeks the germ'd KBG is still stressed/whiten everywhere then I'll need to throw down some more seed. He said there is a chance that since it's a super elite/sod quality seed that it may push through with no harm. Let's see!

Spoke to Brett at Prime Source - maker of Azoxy Select. He said I'll be fine as well given I didn't go completely out of my skis with the app rate. He eluded to the anecdotal evidence of applying fungicide at seed down benefiting the new seedlings having some serious truth, only issue is no major University has tested the theory extensively leaving doubt with some people. It simply protects the new seedlings from fungus when they are babies - he said of course that will help!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Squire515 said:


> Looks like I need to start looking at other apps as well. I seeded last Tuesday, the 18th, and the KBG and tttf were in one mix. There are some spots that have zero signs of germination too. What a disaster.
> 
> Also, sorry I hijacked your journal with my questions.


You are at day 5 from seed down...give it another week or so and send me pictures (or start a journal) and this community can help you decide on throwing more seed or not!


----------



## Squire515

Ok, will do. I started a journal a few days ago, but didn't get any responses. Thanks for your help.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Squire515 said:


> Ok, will do. I started a journal a few days ago, but didn't get any responses. Thanks for your help.


Add link to your signature!


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> Alright folks so I called Syngenta - maker of Tenacity. They said if I ended up at the upper rate of 8oz by accident on my lawn Reno I should be fine. They leave in a buffer on those ranges.
> 
> If in 3 weeks the germ'd KBG is still stressed/whiten everywhere then I'll need to throw down some more seed. He said there is a chance that since it's a super elite/sod quality seed that it may push through with no harm. Let's see!
> 
> Spoke to Brett at Prime Source - maker of Azoxy Select. He said I'll be fine as well given I didn't go completely out of my skis with the app rate. He eluded to the anecdotal evidence of applying fungicide at seed down benefiting the new seedlings having some serious truth, only issue is no major University has tested the theory extensively leaving doubt with some people. It simply protects the new seedlings from fungus when they are babies - he said of course that will help!


Nice to have confirmation. My germ is by far the best in the areas I overapplied. 99% sure it has nothing to do with my spray, but heck, maybe I'll try the high end everywhere else too.


----------



## SumBeach35

Read through your journal, Looks good and wish you luck. Cant wait to see results


----------



## JerseyGreens

Had another person living in the area stop by and bet someone sprayed a chemical on my lawn - I said sure did...your looking at the guy that did - haha!

All jokes aside - grass seeds (exterior part) are opening up now...counting down the days to see babies.

Assume at this point i'm fairly close to seeing some green.

Tenacity is murdering the weeds coming out with that high rate.


----------



## OnTheLawn

That tenacity rate will definitely kick some weed butt. Should be super effective against Poa too, which is awesome.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Now let's see what it does to the KBG babies. Hope the babies laugh in Tenacitys face ha.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Is this germ? Weeds? Some weird old seed?



I had my caution tape setup well before seed down day as many of you know...the crazy 360 in my lawn...

There a few areas that I didn't get the roller through because it was too tight. Both of those areas are showing this growth. :shock:


----------



## OnTheLawn

Hmm, is it just those areas and you cant see germination anywhere else? If you didn't have the roller on those areas they're obviously going to be less compacted, so maybe a little more airflow speeding things up?

Could be germ though!


----------



## JerseyGreens

OnTheLawn said:


> Hmm, is it just those areas and you cant see germination anywhere else? If you didn't have the roller on those areas they're obviously going to be less compacted, so maybe a little more airflow speeding things up?
> 
> Could be germ though!


I see it other places too just sproadic. This is one place where it's more in one area.

Will keep an eye on things tomorrow.

Neighbors think I'm nuts out there with a flashlight right now.


----------



## bf7

Haha don't worry, the neighbors already think you're nuts by now.

The shorter ones, it's possible. The longer ones just look too long to be sprouts on day 4-5. Hope I'm wrong though!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Is this germ? Weeds? Some weird old seed?
> 
> 
> 
> I had my caution tape setup well before seed down day as many of you know...the crazy 360 in my lawn...
> 
> There a few areas that I didn't get the roller through because it was too tight. Both of those areas are showing this growth. :shock:


Some of it could be germ, others look too tall for a 4 days period. I had some tall grass popping out during my first few days, I knew it wasn't the KBG. When I started to see the KBG pop out on the 6th day, I can identify it because it's so short and tiny and I can see that uniform height all over when I look very closely. It's like less than half a centimeter.


----------



## JerseyGreens

It's about 10 degrees cooler than the past few days yet the dirt is drying out much more quickly due to the winds today.

I thought it would have been easier to keep the moisture in today!


----------



## bf7

I think today should be the day. No pressure.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> I think today should be the day. No pressure.


Today would indeed be day 6 since seed down.

Let's hope u can find some widespread germ. It's still sporadic as of last night!


----------



## bf7

It appears right around day 10 is when germ starts to explode. I'm pretty darn happy with the way my front and north side is filling in. In the back, this morning I am just starting to see green fuzz in most areas. I'll get some pics up at some point.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

It will only look better everyday after day 6.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Yeah I'm still not seeing much at all unless I look down real close at seed that was just laying on the ground.

A lot of mind worked it's way down into the soil to the point I can't even notice seed!

I'm thinking it's going to be a few more days before I see solid babies breaking through.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Looking like Day 6 is the magic number to start getting down low to look for babies. @shadowlawnjutsu, @synergy0852 and @bf7 all found some on the same day.



@synergy0852 - there is that grassy weed that I was talking about - the longest grass. Laughing at the tenacity - no bleaching at all.


----------



## synergy0852

I'm curious what that looks like as it matures. Here's the two I'm unable to identify. The thicker one is in all the wet areas and the other wirey one is random and I only see maybe a handful.

Pics


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Looking like Day 6 is the magic number to start getting down low to look for babies. @shadowlawnjutsu, @synergy0852 and @bf7 all found some on the same day.
> 
> 
> 
> @synergy0852 - there is that grassy weed that I was talking about - the longest grass. Laughing at the tenacity - no bleaching at all.


Could that be ryegrass?


----------



## JerseyGreens

synergy0852 said:


> I'm curious what that looks like as it matures. Here's the two I'm unable to identify. The thicker one is in all the wet areas and the other wirey one is random and I only see maybe a handful.
> 
> Pics


The one all the way to the right is young crabgrass. mine aren't an inch tall before the overdose of Tenacity hits them - will be easy to deal with.

The first 2 pictures concern me a bit as they look like some type of Poa - definitely post those on your journal for input.


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking like Day 6 is the magic number to start getting down low to look for babies. @shadowlawnjutsu, @synergy0852 and @bf7 all found some on the same day.
> 
> 
> 
> @synergy0852 - there is that grassy weed that I was talking about - the longest grass. Laughing at the tenacity - no bleaching at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Could that be ryegrass?
Click to expand...

TBD - if it just keeps growing one long straight stalk of grass then yes, most likely ryegrass. Impressive how Tenacity was developed to work on certain weeds, grass weeds but for the most part doesn't (usually) effect growing baby grass...


----------



## bf7

Congrats sir! Welcome to the germ club!

To me it seems like since more KBG is coming in I'm noticing less of the grassy weeds, but maybe they are just getting mixed in now and harder to spot.


----------



## Alex1389

JerseyGreens said:


> Looking like Day 6 is the magic number to start getting down low to look for babies. @shadowlawnjutsu, @synergy0852 and @bf7 all found some on the same day.
> 
> 
> 
> @synergy0852 - there is that grassy weed that I was talking about - the longest grass. Laughing at the tenacity - no bleaching at all.


Congrats on the grass babies!


----------



## synergy0852

JerseyGreens said:


> synergy0852 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious what that looks like as it matures. Here's the two I'm unable to identify. The thicker one is in all the wet areas and the other wirey one is random and I only see maybe a handful.
> 
> Pics
> 
> 
> 
> The one all the way to the right is young crabgrass. mine aren't an inch tall before the overdose of Tenacity hits them - will be easy to deal with.
> 
> The first 2 pictures concern me a bit as they look like some type of Poa - definitely post those on your journal for input.
Click to expand...

I was telling g-man the other day I thought that one was smooth crabgrass and I'm used to seeing hairy crab around here. The other one I'm clueless on. Can't get a good ID on picture this or Google lens but there's so few of them I've just been hand pulling them. I think I'm going to try hand pulling everything before I mow on Sunday hopefully.

Congrats on the germination!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Had some washout this morning and blasted that peat full of soon-to-be germ-ing seed right back into the yard, LOL!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKjhq7ESNm8


----------



## JerseyGreens

Yard is a swimming pool. Destroyed.


----------



## bf7

Oh no!! Any pics of the yard?


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Oh no!! Any pics of the yard?


Went out with a flashlight no phone.

I understand what you meant when you said you saw more germ after washout. I see a ton of green babies just now with a flashlight.

Time will tell now. Water does whatever it wants. This was a brutal storm.

It's going to be hard for me not to broadcast more seed tomorrow...somebody stop me!


----------



## ksturfguy

Hopefully the damage won't be too bad when you look in the morning.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Knockout punch. This should be the last of it. Glad this came on day 6 and not...day 1 or 2.


----------



## Jay20nj

Man ive been watching these storms coming all evening. Im in howell. Hopefully they miss me a bit. Starting now. Just planted mazama tuesday


----------



## JerseyGreens

Jay20nj said:


> Man ive been watching these storms coming all evening. Im in howell. Hopefully they miss me a bit. Starting now. Just planted mazama tuesday


Good luck man. It's coming right for you.

I def got a ton of washout. Little River veins all over the yard.


----------



## KoopHawk

Little veins should easily fill in. Hopefully you can fill them and just let it spread.


----------



## JerseyGreens

KoopHawk said:


> Little veins should easily fill in. Hopefully you can fill them and just let it spread.


Just reviewed your entire journal. Getting everything ready to start soaking the rest of my seed.

Any pointers or just follow what you did in the journal?


----------



## bf7

Wouldn't be a true reno without these challenges. We're all in the same boat.

In my opinion day 6 is relatively good timing for this. Late enough that most of your seed is settled in, and early enough that you aren't losing germ'd seedlings.

But yeah, double-edged sword. Obviously more bad than good, but you get a big spurt of germ and don't have to water for a while.


----------



## KoopHawk

JerseyGreens said:


> KoopHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Little veins should easily fill in. Hopefully you can fill them and just let it spread.
> 
> 
> 
> Just reviewed your entire journal. Getting everything ready to start soaking the rest of my seed.
> 
> Any pointers or just follow what you did in the journal?
Click to expand...

Honestly I'm not sure that it helped with the soil temps being warm. I did the experiment in my garage in February so it was a constant 55 degrees give or take.


----------



## JerseyGreens

KoopHawk said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KoopHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Little veins should easily fill in. Hopefully you can fill them and just let it spread.
> 
> 
> 
> Just reviewed your entire journal. Getting everything ready to start soaking the rest of my seed.
> 
> Any pointers or just follow what you did in the journal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Honestly I'm not sure that it helped with the soil temps being warm. I did the experiment in my garage in February so it was a constant 55 degrees give or take.
Click to expand...

Good point. I'm seeing widespread germ at 6 days. What do I gain by soaking 5 days versus throwing seed down tomorrow, let's say...

One day at a time. I'll send pics out once we get daylight. Fingers crossed.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

You should be good at day 6. Just look at @synergy0852'S journal. He still got a good coverage even after a heavy rain at day 6. How much inch of water did you get last night?


----------



## KoopHawk

They way you put the seed down (raked-seed-rolled-peat) I think your seed will be fine in the areas that didn't visibly wash out, the veins you mentioned, and those should easily fill in next year.


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> You should be good at day 6. Just look at @synergy0852'S journal. He still got a good coverage even after a heavy rain at day 6. How much inch of water did you get last night?


0.8 inches in 30 minutes.

I definitely have a lot of washout. Where exactly remains TBD.



Piles of dirt/peat moss all the way on the other side of my driveway.


----------



## bf7

Yup this mess looks familiar.

How much seed did you put down per 1,000? I read that ideal is around 2.5 lbs, but I went with 3 lbs. Hoping whatever I lost / lose just falls within that half pound difference.

Pretty sure I will need serious re-seeding though. Still haven't decided yet if I'm going to do it this weekend or next.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Yup this mess looks familiar.
> 
> How much seed did you put down per 1,000? I read that ideal is around 2.5 lbs, but I went with 3 lbs. Hoping whatever I lost / lose just falls within that half pound difference.
> 
> Pretty sure I will need serious re-seeding though. Still haven't decided yet if I'm going to do it this weekend or next.


Put down 2.5 lbs per K.

I'm in the wait and watch next 2 days as germ is popping up in many places.

There are a few areas that I absolutely need to re-seed - just difficult seeing those piles of dirt/seed and asking yourself where the heck did that come from!


----------



## jrubb42

JerseyGreens said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should be good at day 6. Just look at @synergy0852'S journal. He still got a good coverage even after a heavy rain at day 6. How much inch of water did you get last night?
> 
> 
> 
> 0.8 inches in 30 minutes.
> 
> I definitely have a lot of washout. Where exactly remains TBD.
> 
> 
> 
> Piles of dirt/peat moss all the way on the other side of my driveway.
Click to expand...

Tough break man. Once your renovation fills in and you get over this hump, it will just be one more thing to look back on and be proud of defeating the adversity you faced. I'm rooting for you from the sidelines!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Seeing green fuzz in a number of areas throughout the lawn.

Others are bare - will go out with flashlight.

@g-man and for others - if I have very spotty germ would you recommend I add a reel low rye to my....once upon a time kbg Mono? Jumping ahead of the gun but just asking.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

You wanted a monostand. Don't back out right away just because you had some washout and slow germination. Give it time and reseed with more KBG if you need to.


----------



## g-man

Day 6 since seed down. Patience. Let it germinate. You still have plenty of time. My 2018 Reno had a bunch of downpours. I think I ended dropping seeds into the middle of sept. It all worked fine.


----------



## JerseyGreens

SNOWBOB11 said:


> You wanted a monostand. Don't back out right away just because you had some washout and slow germination. Give it time and reseed with more KBG if you need to.


And I still do. 100% don't get me wrong.

Just want to be prepared that's all!

Hard finding anyone who reel mows a KBG+PRG mix. I hate...those...stalks! Haha


----------



## jrubb42

JerseyGreens said:


> Seeing green fuzz in a number of areas throughout the lawn.
> 
> Others are bare - will go out with flashlight.
> 
> @g-man and for others - if I have very spotty germ would you recommend I add a reel low rye to my....once upon a time kbg Mono? Jumping ahead of the gun but just asking.


Personally, I wouldn't. I would end up regretting it in the future if you truly want a mono. You can always put down more Bluebank seed now/soon. And if it comes in spotty in the spring you can add more seed then (obviously harder to have success but plenty of people have done it). It will mature and fill itself in a lot. I wouldn't panic quite yet.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> Day 6 since seed down. Patience. Let it germinate. You still have plenty of time. My 2018 Reno had a bunch of downpours. I think I ended dropping seeds into the middle of sept. It all worked fine.


Patience is a virtue! Growing KBG is stressful man!

We are pregnant with number 2 on the way and I'm more worried about my Reno at the moment. Dear wife said she's gonna...kill me if I'm out there any more.... :lol:


----------



## KoopHawk

JerseyGreens said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Day 6 since seed down. Patience. Let it germinate. You still have plenty of time. My 2018 Reno had a bunch of downpours. I think I ended dropping seeds into the middle of sept. It all worked fine.
> 
> 
> 
> Patience is a virtue! Growing KBG is stressful man!
> 
> We are pregnant with number 2 on the way and I'm more worried about my Reno at the moment. *Dear wife said she's gonna...kill me if I'm out there any more*.... :lol:
Click to expand...

Join the club lol.

I'd wait a week or so then reseed any spots that are still bare. I think you'll be surprised how many seeds are still there. Don't add any PGR! You're going to love the Bluebank.


----------



## OnTheLawn

Listen you, don't go gettin all squirrelly on us cause of a wash out now! Patience. This is a marathon, not a sprint.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Have that green haze almost everywhere - including the overdosed on Meso area...will look out for bleaching.

I have areas with none or very little growth - both of those spots stay very wet due to my grading, and irrigation in those particular areas.

Have others noted that their "wettest" parts of a reno take the longest to see germ as the seed never gets the necessary oxygen (drying out) in order to germ in a timely fashion?

I may hand throw more seed down in those areas - I know, I know that's not great technique!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Also please tell me peat moss decomposes like compost without messing up the grade because I have areas with a thick layer of peat due to the way things washed out.

Thanks guys!


----------



## bf7

For me, germ was actually higher in the wetter areas (more shade). The full sun is taking the longest by far.

I am also curious about the peat piles.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Have that green haze almost everywhere - including the overdosed on Meso area...will look out for bleaching.
> 
> I have areas with none or very little growth - both of those spots stay very wet due to my grading, and irrigation in those particular areas.
> 
> Have others noted that their "wettest" parts of a reno take the longest to see germ as the seed never gets the necessary oxygen (drying out) in order to germ in a timely fashion?
> 
> I may hand throw more seed down in those areas - I know, I know that's not great technique!


That would be the same for my yard. The wettest part of the yard has very little germination. Good thing you mentioned because I'm starting to wonder why. It's an area where it gets little to no sun at all and it never dried out during the first few weeks because the sprinkler heads there is the same zone as other sprinkler heads in sunny area. Most of the grass babies are thickening up now but that specific area looks like it's just having germination for a few days.


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have that green haze almost everywhere - including the overdosed on Meso area...will look out for bleaching.
> 
> I have areas with none or very little growth - both of those spots stay very wet due to my grading, and irrigation in those particular areas.
> 
> Have others noted that their "wettest" parts of a reno take the longest to see germ as the seed never gets the necessary oxygen (drying out) in order to germ in a timely fashion?
> 
> I may hand throw more seed down in those areas - I know, I know that's not great technique!
> 
> 
> 
> That would be the same for my yard. The wettest part of the yard has very little germination. Good thing you mentioned because I'm starting to wonder why. It's an area where it gets little to no sun at all and it never dried out during the first few weeks because the sprinkler heads there is the same zone as other sprinkler heads in sunny area. Most of the grass babies are thickening up now but that specific area looks like it's just having germination for a few days.
Click to expand...

Then we are in the same boat with those areas.

Are you finally seeing more germ in those wet areas now? How is everything else coming along?


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have that green haze almost everywhere - including the overdosed on Meso area...will look out for bleaching.
> 
> I have areas with none or very little growth - both of those spots stay very wet due to my grading, and irrigation in those particular areas.
> 
> Have others noted that their "wettest" parts of a reno take the longest to see germ as the seed never gets the necessary oxygen (drying out) in order to germ in a timely fashion?
> 
> I may hand throw more seed down in those areas - I know, I know that's not great technique!
> 
> 
> 
> That would be the same for my yard. The wettest part of the yard has very little germination. Good thing you mentioned because I'm starting to wonder why. It's an area where it gets little to no sun at all and it never dried out during the first few weeks because the sprinkler heads there is the same zone as other sprinkler heads in sunny area. Most of the grass babies are thickening up now but that specific area looks like it's just having germination for a few days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then we are in the same boat with those areas.
> 
> Are you finally seeing more germ in those wet areas now? How is everything else coming along?
Click to expand...

I am seeing germination but not as thick as the other areas. Will post some picture of that area later on my update. The good news is that it's not the first time I renovated that area and I can say that the previous one was successful. That's why I'm not too worried. It just takes a while before you see it as thick as the other areas.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Day 9 post seed down. Overall looks a lot better at night with the flashlight will share those tonight.

DAG: 1










**This area concerns me as trouble as most of the washed out seeds ended up in the driveway nearby.**

Planning on using a hand spreader and broadcasting more seed in some problem areas. The areas that are low/puddle from the sprinklers have very little germ.

What do you guys think?


----------



## SNOWBOB11

I think you should add more seed to the washout. Almost September. Need to get things going.


----------



## JerseyGreens

SNOWBOB11 said:


> I think you should add more seed to the washout. Almost September. Need to get things going.


Yup that is the plan.

I promise it looks a lot better at night. The green hue is many places with the exception of washout and very wet areas.

I'm going to broadcast more seed right on top in those areas today. Not sure if I want to lightly roll it in though.


----------



## g-man

Drop more seeds. It looks like a lot of washout.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> Drop more seeds. It looks like a lot of washout.


Roger that.

Waiting for the winds to die down. 10+ mph at the moment.

I'll roll the seeds in since I'm doing a large part of it now.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Should I buy more tackifier or Penn mulch or just let the seeds do their thing?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Hey guys -

I just threw down the rest of my seed. I see what @bf7 meant by seeing a ton of seed just sprouted laying there on the dirt or peat moss. Not in the soil.

Couple of lessons I've learned:
Screw the peat moss next time it just hinders the eventual rooting into soil!
I know tilling is a big no no but I think the top 2-3 inches of soil needed to be disturbed before seed down. I raked maybe the top 1/2 inch only. 
I never got my grading spot on...worked endless weekends to figure this out but never nailed it.

Now the good - I found a GOLD mine at the end of my driveway.

A huge mountain of sandy dirt with all of my ripe BlueBank seeds just sitting in there. Many had sprouted. Shoveled it into my 50lb spreader and hand broadcasted it throughout the yard (after the rest of my seed). Got 2 hoppers full - this made me happy because these seeds are going to come out immediately.

Now...I lightly water the new seed and hope for no...more...storms.

I'll send night time pics for your honest feedback. If I need to just call it quits and slice seed elite ryegrass into this so be it...I'll have a sissygrass/KBG mix for a few years. One step at a time though!


----------



## bf7

I think the peat moss is good assuming NO WASHOUT.

Under normal circumstances, your seed is in the soil, peat moss on top. Peat retains water, better germ, seed stays in the soil, sprout grows through peat, peat decomposes into ground.

Under washout circumstances, the rain moves everything in its path - peat, seed, sprouts, some soil, whatever it wants to move. Your seed or sprouts then end up in a pile of peat.

Washouts just suck in general.

As I'm out in the yard re-seeding today, I'm noticing that it jacked up all my levelling too. Nothing I can really do now because there are new seedlings germing everywhere.

I would blame the washouts you are experiencing over the peat moss or soil prep for any lack of success you see. But it looks like you have some great germ areas. Better than mine, and you're 4 days behind me!

How much more seed did you drop?


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> I think the peat moss is good assuming NO WASHOUT.
> 
> Under normal circumstances, your seed is in the soil, peat moss on top. Peat retains water, better germ, seed stays in the soil, sprout grows through peat, peat decomposes into ground.
> 
> Under washout circumstances, the rain moves everything in its path - peat, seed, sprouts, some soil, whatever it wants to move. Your seed or sprouts then end up in a pile of peat.
> 
> Washouts just suck in general.
> 
> As I'm out in the yard re-seeding today, I'm noticing that it jacked up all my levelling too. Nothing I can really do now because there are new seedlings germing everywhere.
> 
> I would blame the washouts you are experiencing over the peat moss or soil prep for any lack of success you see. But it looks like you have some great germ areas. Better than mine, and you're 4 days behind me!
> 
> How much more seed did you drop?


Whatever I had - about 8lbs, little more than 1 lb per 1,000 + the seed stuck in the soil - couldn't even begin to guess how much that was.


----------



## bf7

Yeah it's very possible we are dropping too much seed prematurely, but I'd rather deal with some overcrowding / fungus later than a mud lawn. Gotta react swifty to these setbacks.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Yeah it's very possible we are dropping too much seed prematurely, but I'd rather deal with some overcrowding / fungus later than a mud lawn. Gotta react swifty to these setbacks.


I don't know yet. I might be a negative Nancy here but I'm not liking my Reno at this point.

Stupid washouts!

You thinking about throwing starter fert down today? We are Walking all over our crying babies!


----------



## bf7

No starter fert today, maybe tomorrow. I had too much else to do

Now you have me thinking about urea. When am I going to do my first app now? I have 2 sets of grass growing, 2 weeks apart.

Tell me about stepping on the babies. I rolled them too lol. They seem alright. They've been through hell. The roller was about 1/3 full.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Hell and back bud!

I didn't roll. Really praying on the weather forecast.

My non wash out areas look on point which makes this even more frustrating...


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> No starter fert today, maybe tomorrow. I had too much else to do
> 
> Now you have me thinking about urea. When am I going to do my first app now? I have 2 sets of grass growing, 2 weeks apart.
> 
> Tell me about stepping on the babies. I rolled them too lol. They seem alright. They've been through hell. The roller was about 1/3 full.


+1 on this question - sounds like we have similar thinking. My large areas of germ will probably need a mow the pace they are going at right now...

Questions:
I'm counting today 1 DAG even though I have spotty germ, is that OK?
Should I throw down starter fert to help those potential deeper more wet seeds push germ through?


----------



## bf7

Man that looks great! You would be screamin green everywhere if it weren't for that washout.

I am also wondering when to start counting DAG. My germ is just starting to blow up today, after the 3 day hurricane period where everything stalled. I might start with today but I still have several areas in the back without germ.

Yours is even tougher because you have a big area with good germ and another big area that got washed out completely.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Man that looks great! You would be screamin green everywhere if it weren't for that washout.
> 
> I am also wondering when to start counting DAG. My germ is just starting to blow up today, after the 3 day hurricane period where everything stalled. I might start with today but I still have several areas in the back without germ.
> 
> Yours is even tougher because you have a big area with good germ and another big area that got washed out completely.


Thanks man. Will let the experts help out. Crazy how similar our Reno's are going. Both major washout. Both reseeded today.

@SNOWBOB11 @g-man can you please jump in when you get a chance?

You guys are helping both @bf7 by replying. Thanks!

When should we count DAG (for urea, tenacity, etc)
Starter fert down tomorrow to help the reseed
I have very distinct areas of washout vs beautiful thick germ - should I treat them separately or will that just be royally confusing?


----------



## SNOWBOB11

It's up to you when you want to start counting DAG. I would at about day 6 from seed down as that's when you usually start to see germination start in most cases.

I'm a fan of early fertilization on a new reno. When I renovated my front lawn in 2017 I started weekly apps of nitrogen at 15 days after seed down. That is probably a bit on the early side though and probably not necessary.

I'm renovating my neighbors lawn with 100% KBG as well and last week Wednesday was 3 weeks after seed down and I gave the lawn it's first spoon feeding of urea. .20 lb N/1000 sq ft.

I will continue weekly nitrogen throughout September.

The nitrogen really does help start to get things to thicken and tiller.


----------



## JerseyGreens

SNOWBOB11 said:


> It's up to you when you want to start counting DAG. I would at about day 6 from seed down as that's when you usually start to see germination start in most cases.
> 
> I'm a fan of early fertilization on a new reno. When I renovated my front lawn in 2017 I started weekly apps of nitrogen at 15 days after seed down. That is probably a bit on the early side though and probably not necessary.
> 
> I'm renovating my neighbors lawn with 100% KBG as well and last week Wednesday was 3 weeks after seed down and I gave the lawn it's first spoon feeding of urea. .20 lb N/1000 sq ft.
> 
> I will continue weekly nitrogen throughout September.
> 
> The nitrogen really does help start to get things to thicken and tiller.


Thank you!

So it doesn't really matter if you end up dealing with washout/reseeding just go with the date I saw overall germ?

I'll drop .25N per K via Lesco starter fert which I believe is Urea based. Now spreading such a small amount of N through my rotary spreader should be a site for sore eyes ha!


----------



## KoopHawk

Jersey, did you put down any N when you seeded? That'll make a difference when you'll want to start spoon feeding. I put down just under 1 lb N per M at seed down so I didn't start spoon feeding until about 4 weeks DAG. I was spoon feeding via a pull behind sprayer and didn't want to tear up the new seedlings by getting in them too soon. I would feel much better about walking on new seedlings. Seedlings have everything they need to survive the first couple weeks (except water).


----------



## JerseyGreens

KoopHawk said:


> Jersey, did you put down any N when you seeded? That'll make a difference when you'll want to start spoon feeding. I put down just under 1 lb N per M at seed down so I didn't start spoon feeding until about 4 weeks DAG. I was spoon feeding via a pull behind sprayer and didn't want to tear up the new seedlings by getting in them too soon. I would feel much better about walking on new seedlings. Seedlings have everything they need to survive the first couple weeks (except water).


Nope, was just going to let mother nature supply all the food through the seed in the early stages. Which I'm still okay doing but with my wrech of reseeding I'm thinking on throwing fert down tomorrow and some cover mulch over the bare washout areas.

The crazy part is some seedlings are ever so slightly emerging from those completely bare areas. Extra seed will only help.

What a wild ride.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

JerseyGreens said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's up to you when you want to start counting DAG. I would at about day 6 from seed down as that's when you usually start to see germination start in most cases.
> 
> I'm a fan of early fertilization on a new reno. When I renovated my front lawn in 2017 I started weekly apps of nitrogen at 15 days after seed down. That is probably a bit on the early side though and probably not necessary.
> 
> I'm renovating my neighbors lawn with 100% KBG as well and last week Wednesday was 3 weeks after seed down and I gave the lawn it's first spoon feeding of urea. .20 lb N/1000 sq ft.
> 
> I will continue weekly nitrogen throughout September.
> 
> The nitrogen really does help start to get things to thicken and tiller.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> So it doesn't really matter if you end up dealing with washout/reseeding just go with the date I saw overall germ?
> 
> I'll drop .25N per K via Lesco starter fert which I believe is Urea based. Now spreading such a small amount of N through my rotary spreader should be a site for sore eyes ha!
Click to expand...

For me yes I would go with the initial time you saw widespread germination.

If you have a hand held spreader it makes it a lot easier to spread the small amount of fert over the area.

I agree with no nitrogen at seed down.


----------



## bf7

@SNOWBOB11 @KoopHawk @JerseyGreens

Do you use urea or AMS for your N source? I'm going to use straight urea (46-0-0) and having trouble wrapping my head around spreading only 0.43 lbs of granules per 1k via my broadcast spreader for a spoon feed that would equate to 0.2 lbs of N. I was planning to dissolve the granules in water and spray it. Curious how other people are spreading.


----------



## MJR12284

bf7 said:


> @SNOWBOB11 @KoopHawk @JerseyGreens
> 
> Do you use urea or AMS for your N source? I'm going to use straight urea (46-0-0) and having trouble wrapping my head around spreading only 0.43 lbs of granules per 1k via my broadcast spreader for a spoon feed that would equate to 0.2 lbs of N. I was planning to dissolve the granules in water and spray it. Curious how other people are spreading.


My plan is to dissolve Urea and spray it. I posted a question about this in the general Cool Season Forum. Dissolving allows for more uniform application and quicker intake by the plant via foliar application.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

bf7 said:


> @SNOWBOB11 @KoopHawk @JerseyGreens
> 
> Do you use urea or AMS for your N source? I'm going to use straight urea (46-0-0) and having trouble wrapping my head around spreading only 0.43 lbs of granules per 1k via my broadcast spreader for a spoon feed that would equate to 0.2 lbs of N. I was planning to dissolve the granules in water and spray it. Curious how other people are spreading.


I have used urea. It can be done on the lowest setting of your hand held spreader. You can dissolve as well to make it easier. I would water in right away if you do spray.

Only reason I didn't use AMS for my neighbors lawn is because I am running short and wanted to make sure I have enough for my own lawn for this fall. AMS is easier to spread as you need more lb per k for the same N percentage.


----------



## KoopHawk

bf7 said:


> @SNOWBOB11 @KoopHawk @JerseyGreens
> 
> Do you use urea or AMS for your N source? I'm going to use straight urea (46-0-0) and having trouble wrapping my head around spreading only 0.43 lbs of granules per 1k via my broadcast spreader for a spoon feed that would equate to 0.2 lbs of N. I was planning to dissolve the granules in water and spray it. Curious how other people are spreading.


I use urea and if you can spray it go that route. At such a low rate (.2 lb of N) there is very little chance to burn with urea so it is pretty hard to screw up. The general consensus is that the grass is able to absorb most of the N within the first 4 hours then you can water the rest in after that. At such a low rate I'm not sure it is necessary but I do water it in after especially if it is hot.


----------



## JerseyGreens

KoopHawk said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @SNOWBOB11 @KoopHawk @JerseyGreens
> 
> Do you use urea or AMS for your N source? I'm going to use straight urea (46-0-0) and having trouble wrapping my head around spreading only 0.43 lbs of granules per 1k via my broadcast spreader for a spoon feed that would equate to 0.2 lbs of N. I was planning to dissolve the granules in water and spray it. Curious how other people are spreading.
> 
> 
> 
> I use urea and if you can spray it go that route. At such a low rate (.2 lb of N) there is very little chance to burn with urea so it is pretty hard to screw up. The general consensus is that the grass is able to absorb most of the N within the first 4 hours then you can water the rest in after that. At such a low rate I'm not sure it is necessary but I do water it in after especially if it is hot.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing - just found granular AMS near me for a good price. I'll try hand broadcasting the early stages and if/when it starts filling in I'll think about the spray route.

Reseeded yesterday - lets see what happens. Sprinklers ran for only 2-3 minutes per zone and I have water pooling in the same areas where there is little to no germ. I have to figure out why that soil isn't "absorbing" water as it should be doing a lot quicker...


----------



## bf7

Is it a low spot or in the shade? Could be the clay is fully saturated from all the rain and can't absorb any more. Clay can retain water for a long time. I have a couple places like this that are both high shade and low spots.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Is it a low spot or in the shade? Could be the clay is fully saturated from all the rain and can't absorb any more. Clay can retain water for a long time. I have a couple places like this that are both high shade and low spots.


it's a low clay spot, full sun - which isn't out today.

right near the middle of the pictures with little germ - since it's the middle of the yard it gets hit with 2, 360 / 4GPM rotary sprinkler heads.

I'm seeing a theme with my lack of germ - yes it's washout but it's in the "middle" of my yard which is staying very wet.

might drop those 2 middle heads to 2.5's...you know...since we have no issue walking on the babies haha!


----------



## gm560

JerseyGreens said:


> Thanks for sharing - just found granular AMS near me for a good price. I'll try hand broadcasting the early stages and if/when it starts filling in I'll think about the spray route.


Where did you find the AMS?


----------



## JerseyGreens

gm560 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for sharing - just found granular AMS near me for a good price. I'll try hand broadcasting the early stages and if/when it starts filling in I'll think about the spray route.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you find the AMS?
Click to expand...

SiteOne Branchburg put in an order at a Maryland location.

~$21 a bag. Got 2 of them - they had 8 available but I'm not keen on storing large amounts of AMS...sort of explosive - ha!

Give them a call - I'm sure they can take an order over the phone and let you know once its in.


----------



## gm560

I think ammonium nitrate is the explosive fertilizer you hear about on TV shows. I think ammonium sulfate is actually the opposite and is used as a flame retardant. Someone can correct me if I am wrong. Not a chemist.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Dropped 0.2 Lbs N per K of 14-20-4 only on areas showing life.
The bare reseeded areas will get penn mulch - idea here is that the mulch wick away excess moisture that is traditionally keeping these areas very wet and also act like a tackifier.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Dropped 0.2 Lbs N per K of 14-20-4 only on areas showing life.
> The bare reseeded areas will get penn mulch - idea here is that the mulch wick away excess moisture that is traditionally keeping these areas very wet and also act like a tackifier.


Why drop 0.2lbs of nitrogen? Isn't it too early for the spoon feeding? Or you're dropping it for phos for root growth?


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dropped 0.2 Lbs N per K of 14-20-4 only on areas showing life.
> The bare reseeded areas will get penn mulch - idea here is that the mulch wick away excess moisture that is traditionally keeping these areas very wet and also act like a tackifier.
> 
> 
> 
> Why drop 0.2lbs of nitrogen? Isn't it too early for the spoon feeding? Or you're dropping it for phos for root growth?
Click to expand...

Dropped it for both - not too early. My areas that have good growth are 1+ inches now, just speeding up my timeline a little bit on those babies that's all.


----------



## gregonfire

Sorry to hear about your issues man.. did you use any sort of tackifier to hold things in place?


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dropped 0.2 Lbs N per K of 14-20-4 only on areas showing life.
> The bare reseeded areas will get penn mulch - idea here is that the mulch wick away excess moisture that is traditionally keeping these areas very wet and also act like a tackifier.
> 
> 
> 
> Why drop 0.2lbs of nitrogen? Isn't it too early for the spoon feeding? Or you're dropping it for phos for root growth?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dropped it for both - not too early. My areas that have good growth are 1+ inches now, just speeding up my timeline a little bit on those babies that's all.
Click to expand...

That was quick. I might drop mine next weekend. I still don't want to step on it until the most of it is in 1 inch.


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why drop 0.2lbs of nitrogen? Isn't it too early for the spoon feeding? Or you're dropping it for phos for root growth?
> 
> 
> 
> Dropped it for both - not too early. My areas that have good growth are 1+ inches now, just speeding up my timeline a little bit on those babies that's all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was quick. I might drop mine next weekend. I still don't want to step on it until the most of it is in 1 inch.
Click to expand...

Oh buddy I walked all over it yesterday for throwing more seed - felt like a bandaid coming off, I'm walking all over it now (just have to make sure it isn't too wet).


----------



## JerseyGreens

gregonfire said:


> Sorry to hear about your issues man.. did you use any sort of tackifier to hold things in place?


It happens man - where the seed is flourishing it looks amazing. The rest should catch up in a week or so.

I used tackifier only on my "slope" if you want to call it. Looks like it held up a decent amount.

I should have used a tackifier everywhere to be honest but hey we all learn from our first reno...just like our first girlfriends.


----------



## fairwaysupreme

@JerseyGreens

Hey Jersey...how are you making out?

I've enjoyed reading your journal.

Any new photos?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Doing OK. Looks a lot better at night. Filling in during the day.

Pausing all irrigation because I have muddy areas in the middle.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Doing OK. Looks a lot better at night. Filling in during the day.
> 
> Pausing all irrigation because I have muddy areas in the middle.


I am also holding off my irrigation. Aside from the rain that we're getting today. I want to let the wet areas dry a little bit. I only turn on the sprinklers in the morning and the water by hand the whole day if I need to. Good thing I'm working from home, I can watch the lawn.


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doing OK. Looks a lot better at night. Filling in during the day.
> 
> Pausing all irrigation because I have muddy areas in the middle.
> 
> 
> 
> I am also holding off my irrigation. Aside from the rain that we're getting today. I want to let the wet areas dry a little bit. I only turn on the sprinklers in the morning and the water by hand the whole day if I need to. Good thing I'm working from home, I can watch the lawn.
Click to expand...

The crazy part is that those super wet muddy areas are the bare parts of my Reno.

Unfortunately I can't hand water. I'll probably readjust the spray of the remaining heads to keep them from hitting the areas I am trying to dry.


----------



## Di3soft

@JerseyGreens 60 days DAG or after seed down, I was curious about using PGR on new seedlings as well


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> @JerseyGreens 60 days DAG or after seed down, I was curious about using PGR on new seedlings as well


Not doing it this year - got too many other things to worry about getting this right before first frost!


----------



## Di3soft

gotcha, ill start in spring then


----------



## fairwaysupreme

@JerseyGreens

You're going to be fine...all that will fill in nicely.

You've got a pair of balls to do a full reno....and it looks like you pulled it off

I did a very heavy overseed on my own lawn with Everest KBG....I put the seed down on August 8th...I scalped the existing lawn, groomed it, and threw down about 5lbs of KBG seed per 1,000 feet.

I've been watering the hell out of it..it's really slow to come up...but I think it will be worth the wait. I wanted to do a full reno...,but not enough time to really do it right...


----------



## KoopHawk

JerseyGreens said:


> Doing OK. Looks a lot better at night. Filling in during the day.
> 
> Pausing all irrigation because I have muddy areas in the middle.


That is looking really good. A year from now it will be very nice!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Just got word that Reel Rollers won't be getting any Electra's for the remainder of this year...

Next possible time frame to get one would be in 2021...

I could get an Edwin by mid November but screw that - some of you mentioned a local NJ guy cleaning up and selling reel mowers, can someone share his contact info with me please?

Thanks!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Just got word that Reel Rollers won't be getting any Electra's for the remainder of this year...
> 
> Next possible time frame to get one would be in 2021...
> 
> I could get an Edwin by mid November but screw that - some of you mentioned a local NJ guy cleaning up and selling reel mowers, can someone share his contact info with me please?
> 
> Thanks!


That might be Brad Fox. I can see him everywhere from facebook Marketplace, turfnet and eBay. Looks like he has a lot of used reel mower for sale.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Alright guys - I'm going to keep it absolutely real with you...it's with sad disappointment that I show you these shots but I need advice from my TLF brothers.

I have a tale of 2 renos...literally - I have close to 3,500 square feet coming in amazing on my side yard, hell strip, and two sides of the front yard...the middle section is absolutely terrible. It's stays overly wet and it waterlogged.

Give it to me real - yes I threw down extra seed on Sunday but this isn't the best environment for growth not matter how I cut it... Where you see the black dirt is where I started raking around that wet sprinkler...put everything on hold for a minute to run this by you guys here first.







I have 10ish more lbs of bluebank on order...I can realistically rake all of the bad/water logged spots up and throw down that - or just call it quits with the KBG this year and throw something else down.


----------



## Zcape35

How much of that did you seed on Sunday? I'm sure that none of that would be germinating yet regardless of the soil condition.


----------



## g-man

How many vacations days you have left?


----------



## gm560

Why is it waterlogged? Any idea? Is it from storms or is that sprinkler leaking? It looks like I see some germination in those spots and it is still relatively early. Mine didn't look much different at the same point....


----------



## JerseyGreens

Zcape35 said:


> How much of that did you seed on Sunday? I'm sure that none of that would be germinating yet regardless of the soil condition.


No seed germ-ing from that batch - just sitting on the soil waiting to pop any day.



g-man said:


> How many vacations days you have left?


I'll do whatever it takes - I have 10+ vacation days left. Give me the lowdown and I'll follow suit.



gm560 said:


> Why is it waterlogged? Any idea? Is it from storms or is that sprinkler leaking? It looks like I see some germination in those spots and it is still relatively early. Mine didn't look much different at the same point....


It's not really grading - everything is relatively "flat" -ish. The areas that have caked up soil were areas that I added a sand heavy (what it looked) like topsoil to help when that lady drove over my lawn. It ended up being CLAY heavy...looked sandy when I bought it...


----------



## JerseyGreens

Closer shots of problem areas. Excuse me for the hickory tree junk. Love that tree but boy it sucks this time of year.







Thoughts?
Rake it....throw more seed and cover with Lesco seed accelerator...or...I don't know!


----------



## KoopHawk

gm560 said:


> *Why is it waterlogged?* Any idea? Is it from storms or is that sprinkler leaking? It looks like I see some germination in those spots and it is still relatively early. Mine didn't look much different at the same point....


I agree. I think figuring out why it is staying waterlogged is more important that adding more seed at this point. I'd adjust my sprinkler heads accordingly to let this area dry up some. A couple of my heads settled and the immediate area around them was always wet and I had poor germination. I recently just reseeded them.

Worst case scenario you may have some reseeding to do next spring.


----------



## gm560

Honestly looking at those pictures I think it looks par for the course for 12 days after seed down with a midnight type kbg mono. I don't see many if any places with zero germination (i had some) and you still likely have seeds from the first batch that have not even germinated yet. I don't think midnights like Bluebank are known for jumping out of the ground.


----------



## g-man

I think the best thing will be to go on vacation. Go to the beach for a few days. Don't look at it until Saturday/Sunday. The seeds you dropped on Sunday are not going to germinate in 3 days. 

If it is too wet, back off frequency or duration.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> I think the best thing will be to go on vacation. Go to the beach for a few days. Don't look at it until Saturday/Sunday. The seeds you dropped on Sunday are not going to germinate in 3 days.
> 
> If it is too wet, back off frequency or duration.


Haha wow!!! I thought you were going to put me to work with vacation days.

I'll hand throw some seeds on that patch that I raked like a mad man.


----------



## gm560

@g-man throws a mean curve ball.


----------



## JerseyGreens

KoopHawk said:


> gm560 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why is it waterlogged?* Any idea? Is it from storms or is that sprinkler leaking? It looks like I see some germination in those spots and it is still relatively early. Mine didn't look much different at the same point....
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. I think figuring out why it is staying waterlogged is more important that adding more seed at this point. I'd adjust my sprinkler heads accordingly to let this area dry up some. A couple of my heads settled and the immediate area around them was always wet and I had poor germination. I recently just reseeded them.
> 
> Worst case scenario you may have some reseeding to do next spring.
Click to expand...

Absolutely great question. It's perplexed me this entire Reno how that area remains wet for so long. I should have dug down to see if that's where the builder hid tree stumps or crap in...I digress.

I'm changing 4 heads to 5000+ with check valves today. Plus making some nozzles low angles. I will say that dark patch of dirt I raked up was getting hit by close to 6 heads.


----------



## g-man

Rake? Why?


----------



## KoopHawk

g-man said:


> I think the best thing will be to go on vacation. Go to the beach for a few days. Don't look at it until Saturday/Sunday. The seeds you dropped on Sunday are not going to germinate in 3 days.
> 
> If it is too wet, back off frequency or duration.


I'll agree with this. KBG is all about patience and it will drive you crazy. There's germination there. You should get more germ. Tinker with your irrigation for more even coverage. Hurry up and wait.


----------



## JerseyGreens

No no I'm not raking anything. Raked that part near the sprinkler because it was dug up and was a mess nearby. I thought the spongy water feeling was coming from a thick layer of peat so I started raking it a bit.

I won't rake anywhere else. Promise.


----------



## gm560

Just to get ahead of things... you are about to get into the sprout and pout stage. You might want to stock the liquor cabinet


----------



## bf7

You rolled when you seeded Sunday, right? And there have been no big washouts since then? I would bet in a week or so you will see some much better germ here. I wouldn't go into panic mode until at least mid-Sept. I am seeing the biggest improvements within the last couple of days (days 15-16). KBG is a grind.


----------



## jrubb42

gm560 said:


> Just to get ahead of things... you are about to get into the sprout and pout stage. You might want to stock the liquor cabinet


😂😂


----------



## JerseyGreens

gm560 said:


> @g-man throws a mean curve ball.


I'd call that a mean changeup!


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> You rolled when you seeded Sunday, right? And there have been no big washouts since then? I would bet in a week or so you will see some much better germ here. I wouldn't go into panic mode until at least mid-Sept. I am seeing the biggest improvements within the last couple of days (days 15-16). KBG is a grind.


Yes rolled the super bare middle spot...just walked over the other areas I threw extra at.

No major T-storms since Sunday. Fingers crossed.


----------



## JerseyGreens

gm560 said:


> Just to get ahead of things... you are about to get into the sprout and pout stage. You might want to stock the liquor cabinet


I have 4 chapters to this reno after seed down. A good amount is getting close to this stage...

I see why most sod farmers do not grow 100% KBG now..they would lose their mind for a living...


----------



## fairwaysupreme

@JerseyGreens

Hang in there fella...you will be fine....just let it come up...I know it's painful but if you reseeded any bare areas you will be fine


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Just looked at the close up photos. It's really not that bad. For me, as long as there's few seedlings within 1/2 to 1 foot area, that should be good. Give it another three days and it should look a lot better.


----------



## DiabeticKripple

dont overthink it! throw some seed down by hand and then just let it ride until winter! youll be fine!

i had a mud hole on the side of my house, i didnt think it would fill in, but now it has and looks awesome.


----------



## JerseyGreens

DiabeticKripple said:


> dont overthink it! throw some seed down by hand and then just let it ride until winter! youll be fine!
> 
> i had a mud hole on the side of my house, i didnt think it would fill in, but now it has and looks awesome.


Thanks for all of the support.

This is a big week. Days 14-21. I'll assess it next week and take it from there!


----------



## g-man

Tomorrow, 6am, flashlight pictures?


----------



## OnTheLawn

This is why getting seed down early is a good thing. Remember, you still have time with ideal air and soil temps to get more seed down if need be. I'd just wait it out for a bit, take some time away from overthinking this whole thing, and come back to it in a week or so like others have mentioned. It's all good! Again, marathon, not a sprint. You've got buffer time built in here to rectify any issues once it all truly starts to grow in.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> Tomorrow, 6am, flashlight pictures?


I'll try my best!

Took your advices and skipped town for the day.


----------



## JerseyGreens

OnTheLawn said:


> This is why getting seed down early is a good thing. Remember, you still have time with ideal air and soil temps to get more seed down if need be. I'd just wait it out for a bit, take some time away from overthinking this whole thing, and come back to it in a week or so like others have mentioned. It's all good! Again, marathon, not a sprint. You've got buffer time built in here to rectify any issues once it all truly starts to grow in.


I'm excited to show you guys the early morning pictures. It's indeed a marathon. Just a stressful one given I planted a compact type KBG.

I'm seeing the main lawn shoot have other shoots coming out of the main even though some are 1/2 inch. Is this common? My bad if they aren't called shoots but I'm sure you guys will understand what I'm saying.


----------



## SumBeach35

g-man said:


> Tomorrow, 6am, flashlight pictures?


Is that the official best way to check on reno's?? :lol: :lol:


----------



## g-man

Yes. You get to see all the growth from the night before.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@g-man as promised.

DASD: 16
DAG: 7

It's official. There are at least 4-5 seedlings coming up in a all sandy "rivers" if you want to call them. Short, frequent watering is helping them.





















The side yard where I used M-binder tackifier and the hell strip are absolutely crushing it.

Pardon the dirty sidewalk and hickory nuts/tree debris. I'm going to focus on property cleanup today. Focusing too much on the lawn lately.

It was nice getting away to upstate NY yesterday. Seeing this today - I'm fully on board with this filling in substantially this fall and fully next spring.

Thanks everyone!!


----------



## g-man

:thumbup:


----------



## OnTheLawn

There ya go! Incredible what a difference the right lighting and some time can make.


----------



## bf7

Looks like a completely different yard. Amazing.

See what I meant about the morning dew shots - they are a huge confidence booster.

Your tributaries will fill in easily. At least yours are sandy. Mine are hard clay.


----------



## Lust4Lawn

I'm very happy to see this turn around for you. What a roller coaster of a reno.


----------



## ruxie88

:thumbup:


----------



## JerseyGreens

What DAG timeframe do you guys pick for hitting it with N.

@SNOWBOB11 I believe you said 15? Please mistake me if I'm wrong.

Going to hit it with Milo at bag rate at 15 DAG. One bag gets me 0.29 lbs N per K. 
Then my urea N spoonfeeding will begin at 21 DAG and continue until Thanksgiving. 
Going to mix in CX GRN at some point and go light on Urea that particular week.

Throwing down DiseaseEX at some point this week even though temps are cooling down a bit. I don't have overcrowding issues so putting this off...clearly. :lol:
Tenacity at 45 DASD (in lieu of 30 since I have way too many overseed dates post washout).


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Looking great! After all the washouts that you've been through it's finally showing a very good coverage. Very excited to see what your lawn would look like.

What are those crystals I see in one of the photos?


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Looking great! After all the washouts that you've been through it's finally showing a very good coverage. Very excited to see what your lawn would look like.
> 
> What are those crystals I see in one of the photos?


I have a super close up camera on my phone - thats a zoomed in shot of Sand.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

JerseyGreens said:


> What DAG timeframe do you guys pick for hitting it with N.
> 
> @SNOWBOB11 I believe you said 15? Please mistake me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Going to hit it with Milo at bag rate at 15 DAG. One bag gets me 0.29 lbs N per K.
> Then my urea N spoonfeeding will begin at 21 DAG and continue until Thanksgiving.
> Going to mix in CX GRN at some point and go light on Urea that particular week.


I think this is a good plan. You'll see things starting to tiller and thicken once you start fertilizing.

Coverage is looking good by the way. Good on you for sticking with it. Only going up from here.


----------



## MJR12284

JerseyGreens said:


> What DAG timeframe do you guys pick for hitting it with N.
> 
> @SNOWBOB11 I believe you said 15? Please mistake me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Going to hit it with Milo at bag rate at 15 DAG. One bag gets me 0.29 lbs N per K.
> Then my urea N spoonfeeding will begin at 21 DAG and continue until Thanksgiving.
> Going to mix in CX GRN at some point and go light on Urea that particular week.
> 
> Throwing down DiseaseEX at some point this week even though temps are cooling down a bit. I don't have overcrowding issues so putting this off...clearly. :lol:
> Tenacity at 45 DASD (in lieu of 30 since I have way too many overseed dates post washout).


I like this plan too and was thinking of doing the same. What's the reason for Milo instead of straight Urea at DAG15 or so?


----------



## JerseyGreens

MJR12284 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> What DAG timeframe do you guys pick for hitting it with N.
> 
> @SNOWBOB11 I believe you said 15? Please mistake me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Going to hit it with Milo at bag rate at 15 DAG. One bag gets me 0.29 lbs N per K.
> Then my urea N spoonfeeding will begin at 21 DAG and continue until Thanksgiving.
> Going to mix in CX GRN at some point and go light on Urea that particular week.
> 
> Throwing down DiseaseEX at some point this week even though temps are cooling down a bit. I don't have overcrowding issues so putting this off...clearly. :lol:
> Tenacity at 45 DASD (in lieu of 30 since I have way too many overseed dates post washout).
> 
> 
> 
> I like this plan too and was thinking of doing the same. What's the reason for Milo instead of straight Urea at DAG15 or so?
Click to expand...

Little bit of Phos before the strictly N spoonfeeding.


----------



## KoopHawk

JerseyGreens said:


> What DAG timeframe do you guys pick for hitting it with N.
> 
> @SNOWBOB11 I believe you said 15? Please mistake me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Going to hit it with Milo at bag rate at 15 DAG. One bag gets me 0.29 lbs N per K.
> Then my urea N spoonfeeding will begin at 21 DAG and continue until Thanksgiving.
> Going to mix in CX GRN at some point and go light on Urea that particular week.
> 
> Throwing down DiseaseEX at some point this week even though temps are cooling down a bit. I don't have overcrowding issues so putting this off...clearly. :lol:
> Tenacity at 45 DASD (in lieu of 30 since I have way too many overseed dates post washout).


A bag of Milo or bag rate? Bag rate is .77 N, .5 P.


----------



## KoopHawk

JerseyGreens said:


> What DAG timeframe do you guys pick for hitting it with N.
> 
> @SNOWBOB11 I believe you said 15? Please mistake me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Going to hit it with Milo at bag rate at 15 DAG. One bag gets me 0.29 lbs N per K.
> Then my urea N spoonfeeding will begin at 21 DAG and continue until Thanksgiving.
> Going to mix in CX GRN at some point and go light on Urea that particular week.
> 
> Throwing down DiseaseEX at some point this week even though temps are cooling down a bit. I don't have overcrowding issues so putting this off...clearly. :lol:
> Tenacity at 45 DASD (in lieu of 30 since I have way too many overseed dates post washout).


A bag of Milo or bag rate? Bag rate is .77 N, .5 P.


----------



## MJR12284

Gotcha. Did your soil test show low Phos?


----------



## JerseyGreens

KoopHawk said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> What DAG timeframe do you guys pick for hitting it with N.
> 
> @SNOWBOB11 I believe you said 15? Please mistake me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Going to hit it with Milo at bag rate at 15 DAG. One bag gets me 0.29 lbs N per K.
> Then my urea N spoonfeeding will begin at 21 DAG and continue until Thanksgiving.
> Going to mix in CX GRN at some point and go light on Urea that particular week.
> 
> Throwing down DiseaseEX at some point this week even though temps are cooling down a bit. I don't have overcrowding issues so putting this off...clearly. :lol:
> Tenacity at 45 DASD (in lieu of 30 since I have way too many overseed dates post washout).
> 
> 
> 
> A bag of Milo or bag rate? Bag rate is .77 N, .5 P.
Click to expand...

One bag. 
1.92 Lbs N across 6,500 SQ feet


----------



## JerseyGreens

MJR12284 said:


> Gotcha. Did your soil test show low Phos?


So I have to discount my original soil test a bit because I added new topsoil at the goal line to clean up some issues.


----------



## JerseyGreens

https://www.greencastonline.com/tools/pestoutlooks.aspx

When one fungus pressure comes down...always seems like another one is ready to go up.

Just sharing this with those of us working on Reno's. Controlling fungus pressure in the first few years of a new lawn is crucial to its long term success!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> https://www.greencastonline.com/tools/pestoutlooks.aspx
> 
> When one fungus pressure comes down...always seems like another one is ready to go up.
> 
> Just sharing this with those of us working on Reno's. Controlling fungus pressure in the first few years of a new lawn is crucial to its long term success!


When are you planning to spray propi? You had azoxy in seed down, right?


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.greencastonline.com/tools/pestoutlooks.aspx
> 
> When one fungus pressure comes down...always seems like another one is ready to go up.
> 
> Just sharing this with those of us working on Reno's. Controlling fungus pressure in the first few years of a new lawn is crucial to its long term success!
> 
> 
> 
> When are you planning to spray propi? You had azoxy in seed down, right?
Click to expand...

Throwing down granular diseaseEX soon. Maybe tomorrow. Put down Azoxy at seed down.


----------



## Lust4Lawn

@JerseyGreens isn't Disease Ex azoxy based?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Lust4Lawn said:


> @JerseyGreens isn't Disease Ex azoxy based?


It is indeed.


----------



## OnTheLawn

I would opt for a Propi spray once you hit 2-3 leaf stage. Supposed to help establish young grass as well as prevent disease pressure. Then hit it again with Disease Ex/Azoxy in a couple weeks.


----------



## JerseyGreens

OnTheLawn said:


> I would opt for a Propi spray once you hit 2-3 leaf stage. Supposed to help establish young grass as well as prevent disease pressure. Then hit it again with Disease Ex/Azoxy in a couple weeks.


That works too.

With fungus preventatives I like to go back to back with a product and then switch it up.

Meaning the next 2 rounds will be Propi/Propi after the granular diseaseEx.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Azoxy down at 3lbs per 1k granular. 
Mowed the hell strip at 1inch. Had nice clippings coming off there.

Watering and that's it.

I can see why others say DASD 14-21 are mind blowing with a KBG Reno. It's getting there.


----------



## Zcape35

It's still like watching paint dry though, I wish I could skip like 14 days of waiting.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Zcape35 said:


> It's still like watching paint dry though, I wish I could skip like 14 days of waiting.


I hear ya. I was excited and brought the reel mower to the main parts of my yard....0 clippings came off...I was like well ok let me go and pout!

Also forgot how bad granular Azoxy smells. Woof.


----------



## Zcape35

I'm not sure I've smelled Azoxy even though I've used it. Next time I'll take a wifferoonie.


----------



## OnTheLawn

@JerseyGreens if you think granular azoxy smells bad, get your hands on some X Soil and put that out! Wheeeeew.


----------



## g-man

@JerseyGreens no pictures?


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> @JerseyGreens no pictures?


I'll take some 6am shots. Was sweating my tail off and went in to shower.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Slept through some nice heavy rain this AM and didn't get up - I'll make it happen tomorrow!


----------



## KoopHawk

Pics or it didn't happen


----------



## g-man

Excuses


----------



## JerseyGreens

@g-man @KoopHawk you guys are killing me!

DASD: 20
DAG: 11









@OnTheLawn check out those peat moss tributaries that hit me my first week from washout. It's slowly but surely trying to close them up. Once it gets N it will close them further.


----------



## OnTheLawn

It'll get there! Thankfully you're working with KBG which will do some spreading and filling on its own. Looking good though so far for 11 DAG, especially co side ring the washouts you had.


----------



## JerseyGreens

OnTheLawn said:


> It'll get there! Thankfully you're working with KBG which will do some spreading and filling on its own. Looking good though so far for 11 DAG, especially co side ring the washouts you had.


Thank you!

Looked back at some previous pictures I've posted and it's night & day.

Getting away that one day (per @g-man advice) really helped me understand this is a long ride. If it doesn't completely fill in, OK - it will happen over time which I'm fine with now.


----------



## KoopHawk

It looks like there is a little green in those washout areas already. Everything I see should fill in nicely. I had a couple of kitchen table sized areas that were pretty well bare that filled in considerably over the summer. I just looked back at my day 16 (10 DAG) and Day 31 (25 DAG) pics and you're going to see considerable change over the next 2 weeks. I went out to see if I could find a couple of the bare spots from my Day 31 pics and most of them are filled in already. You'll be really happy with your coverage and have a nice stand in a year.

What's up with the pinwheels?


----------



## JerseyGreens

KoopHawk said:


> It looks like there is a little green in those washout areas already. Everything I see should fill in nicely. I had a couple of kitchen table sized areas that were pretty well bare that filled in considerably over the summer. I just looked back at my day 16 (10 DAG) and Day 31 (25 DAG) pics and you're going to see considerable change over the next 2 weeks. I went out to see if I could find a couple of the bare spots from my Day 31 pics and most of them are filled in already. You'll be really happy with your coverage and have a nice stand in a year.
> 
> What's up with the pinwheels?


Freaks out the birds that come to eat my seeds...now that I don't have much seed out there I'll probably take them down.

Although it's been freaking out the deer at night so I might leave them!


----------



## KoopHawk

I thought maybe you were trying to attract neighborhood kids to run thru your mud!


----------



## JerseyGreens

KoopHawk said:


> I thought maybe you were trying to attract neighborhood kids to run thru your mud!


It's not mud. Come on man!


----------



## dleonard11122

As someone with a TTTF lawn, I'm so jealous of the ability for your lawn to fill in.


----------



## JerseyGreens

dleonard11122 said:


> As someone with a TTTF lawn, I'm so jealous of the ability for your lawn to fill in.


I will say that it's been unbelievably stressful growing a 100% kbg lawn. The time, energy and money will pay off for sure though!


----------



## dleonard11122

I imagine the upfront cost is slightly higher, but over time you're absolutely going to save on not having to do overseeding.


----------



## JerseyGreens

dleonard11122 said:


> I imagine the upfront cost is slightly higher, but over time you're absolutely going to save on not having to do overseeding.


Honestly I'm pretty excited about the self repair capabilities. That's the main reason I went this route.

Yes, I want to reel mow and all of that good stuff being that I picked a compact type but first and foremost is the spreading ability.


----------



## bf7

Haha the pinwheels! You sir apparently know every trick in the book. Those birds are driving me nuts! I've been knocking on the windows from inside the house to spook them.

Disappointed you didn't go full scarecrow though.

Everything is looking great by the way. Washouts really test your patience and problem solving skills. If we come out with great yards after this, we can do anything. At least we know the next reno will be a cakewalk.


----------



## Zcape35

Seriously... you should've gone full scarecrow. 
I have a large amount of very fat Robins that were eating all my worms but they didn't eat the seed. I think the seeds were too small as only the little Finchs ate them.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Switching this up and making my first Fert app via CX Start: 8-24-4 for a Phos boost.

Yes, I got a soil test done and it was fine with Phos but with the crazy amounts of rain we've had I'm assuming some of that Phos leached deeper into the soil, not fully accessible by the shallow roots.

0.25 Lbs N per K = 3 lbs of XStart per K or 19.5 Lbs total product.

Putting this down on Sunday.
Supplementing on Weds with Granular AMS at 0.15 lbs N per K = 4.6 Lbs total. This is just for a jumper N app as 2% of the total 8% of N from CX Start is slow release poultry poop aka not making any quick impact.

I'm ready to start filling some of this lawn in!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

It's looking really great now. You must be excited to wake up every morning. You think you're in the pout stage already?


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> It's looking really great now. You must be excited to wake up every morning. You think you're in the pout stage already?


Thank you!

It looks a lot better today than the day I posted pictures.

Oh yeah, full blown pout stage on the original seed. It's weird because the hell strip was done pouting a week ago but not the rest. I know I raked a lot deeper on the hell strip - thinking that was the main reason why.

How are you holding up? I bet you must be mowing every few days since you are spoon-feeding.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> dleonard11122 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I imagine the upfront cost is slightly higher, but over time you're absolutely going to save on not having to do overseeding.
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly I'm pretty excited about the self repair capabilities. That's the main reason I went this route.
> 
> Yes, I want to reel mow and all of that good stuff being that I picked a compact type but first and foremost is the spreading ability.
Click to expand...

The other advantage of KBG's self-repair is that since one doesn't need to overseed, one can apply a fall pre-emergent, too, to cut down on unwanted germination of invaders such as _Poa annua_ and _Poa trivialis_.

KBG does require some extra patience to get started, though? Definitely not for those demanding instant gratification.


----------



## JerseyGreens

ken-n-nancy said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dleonard11122 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I imagine the upfront cost is slightly higher, but over time you're absolutely going to save on not having to do overseeding.
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly I'm pretty excited about the self repair capabilities. That's the main reason I went this route.
> 
> Yes, I want to reel mow and all of that good stuff being that I picked a compact type but first and foremost is the spreading ability.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The other advantage of KBG's self-repair is that since one doesn't need to overseed, one can apply a fall pre-emergent, too, to cut down on unwanted germination of invaders such as _Poa annua_ and _Poa trivialis_.
> 
> KBG does require some extra patience to get started, though? Definitely not for those demanding instant gratification.
Click to expand...

Honestly, it's amazing. I need to take close up pictures but I've seen some single seedlings at the 4-5 stem stage with a tiller. I had to look close but when I did my jaw almost dropped that one seedling did that.


----------



## Squire515

Looking good, Greens. Lookin good.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Squire515 said:


> Looking good, Greens. Lookin good.


Have you driven by recently?

Finally starting to look like a lawn again during the day.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Honest question here - and @g-man please don't tell me to go on vacation again!



I can't tell between the old grass roots and the new. Do you guys think I'll have any issues with the new grass roots piercing through my native soil after getting "lazy" rooting in the crumbly topsoil?


----------



## g-man

The others are not honest questions? And yes, stay off the yard. 

If the roots worked in the old soil, why are they not going to work again? The roots will find a way. Don't worry.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> The others are not honest questions? And yes, stay off the yard.
> 
> If the roots worked in the old soil, why are they not going to work again? The roots will find a way. Don't worry.


Yes, the others were honest questions - some are intended for my lawn buddies here to be my therapists, and others are questions in areas that I am completely clueless on!

Thank you, @g-man


----------



## UMStevo

What is your plan for filling in bare spots if they don't fill in? Curious as I will have to do the same thing with my Reno.

Seed, rake, Peet moss just like your initial seeding?


----------



## JerseyGreens

UMStevo said:


> What is your plan for filling in bare spots if they don't fill in? Curious as I will have to do the same thing with my Reno.
> 
> Seed, rake, Peet moss just like your initial seeding?


At this point, nothing. Feed and mow until the grass doesn't grow anymore. Whatever doesn't fill in will in the Spring.

I reseeded twice due to washout and won't be throwing down any more seed.

If you are about to throw down more seed then just throw it down, lightly roll - or I just walked all over the parts I seeded. Did the trick for the most part.


----------



## ludawg23

JerseyGreens said:


> UMStevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is your plan for filling in bare spots if they don't fill in? Curious as I will have to do the same thing with my Reno.
> 
> Seed, rake, Peet moss just like your initial seeding?
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, nothing. Feed and mow until the grass doesn't grow anymore. Whatever doesn't fill in will in the Spring.
> 
> I reseeded twice due to washout and won't be throwing down any more seed.
> 
> *If you are about to throw down more seed then just throw it down, lightly roll - or I just walked all over the parts I seeded. Did the trick for the most part.*
Click to expand...

I will need to do this on the bare spots of my reno. Do you need to rough up the soil a little or did you just drop seed down and roll/step on it?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Drop seeds and walked. No need to rake because you might disturb seedlings that aren't quite visible.

Raked an area only when I had to repair a sprinkler at the base of the fitting.


----------



## ludawg23

JerseyGreens said:


> Drop seeds and walked. No need to rake because you might disturb seedlings that aren't quite visible.
> 
> Raked an area only when I had to repair a sprinkler at the base of the fitting.


ok great - thank you!


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> Honest question here - and @g-man please don't tell me to go on vacation again!
> 
> 
> 
> I can't tell between the old grass roots and the new. Do you guys think I'll have any issues with the new grass roots piercing through my native soil after getting "lazy" rooting in the crumbly topsoil?


Your topsoil looks great. I thought you said it was high clay!

I think my topsoil looks like your native soil on clay steroids.

Grass seems to be doing fine though. Guess I can't complain. Those little roots are relentless.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@bf7 I was blessed with a decent native soil - added lots of OM via compost and humic acid after I moved in.

I had a few areas where I used 3 yards of clay/sandy topsoil for fixing late in the game.

Actually putting one bag of this later today since I can't spray Propi (sprayer needs a charge).

https://mirimichigreen.com/products/lesco-carbonpro-g/

The compost is derived from Pig Manure so by nature it's going to have to have some N and P - I'm thinking it's probably a 1-1-0 or 2-2-0. Only putting one bag down on all 6,500 sq feet. This is not my first fert app - just a soil amendment.


----------



## JerseyGreens

DASD: 24
DAG: 15

After everything she's been through. Trying to resemble a lawn again!



Applied Lesco CarbonPro G. Basically compost/biochar. 
One bag. Came out to 6.15 lbs per K. No fert, although it has pig manure in it so probably a little N and P.

Day 9 for reference:


----------



## Zcape35

It's looking great you must be pumped. Looks like we are in the same boat having pretty even germination almost everywhere with some thinner patches. Fortunately it's KBG!


----------



## bf7

Love the before and after. She's been through hell, that's for sure. Starting with the nurse / wannabe monster truck driver.


----------



## psider25

That's awesome. I'm 2 weeks behind you ( day 7 since seed down) and hope to recover from washout just as well... also racing the oak leaves and hickory nuts.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Get ready to start mowing soon. It comes up on you faster than you think.

Are you planning a mulch ring under the big tree trunk.


----------



## JerseyGreens

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Get ready to start mowing soon. It comes up on you faster than you think.
> 
> Are you planning a mulch ring under the big tree trunk.


Already had to mow the hell strip once. The front is interesting. Lots of different heights on the grass. Plus some seedlings are growing sideways. Hard to explain. Hope they all straighten up. :?

There is an elongated mulch ring on that hickory tree. Keep of parallel with the house. Long term plan is to make a mulch bed connecting the hickory and oak trees with new plantings.


----------



## jhealy748

Just got done catching up on your journal and it's been a great read! Typical that these things are always full of drama! I had a construction worker drive right through mine delivering materials after it was seeded as well as a horse this spring come running through during a rain storm and things are still coming together really well. The bare spots will fill no problem it just takes time and n! I'm an I dependent agent and an agency owner so entertaining to catch some insurance puns here and there as well lol. Who do you uw for? Excited to see this come together and you have an amazing looking home!


----------



## JerseyGreens

jhealy748 said:


> Just got done catching up on your journal and it's been a great read! Typical that these things are always full of drama! I had a construction worker drive right through mine delivering materials after it was seeded as well as a horse this spring come running through during a rain storm and things are still coming together really well. The bare spots will fill no problem it just takes time and n! I'm an I dependent agent and an agency owner so entertaining to catch some insurance puns here and there as well lol. Who do you uw for? Excited to see this come together and you have an amazing looking home!


Thank you!

Sounds like you had one hell of a roller coaster Reno too... Not sure why people are inclined to drive through our yards but I digress.

I'm at Nationwide E&S/Specialty Property. Hurricanes and wildfires keep me up at night.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Don't mind me...I'm just going to eat this seedling right in front of your face!!



Best way to nuke these guys?


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

That's not grub right?


----------



## ken-n-nancy

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> That's not grub right?


No, that's not a grub. That's a caterpillar of some sort. Not a kind I'd expect to see in the lawn, either. I'm guessing it may have fallen out of a tree, vegetable garden, or flower garden, and is looking to make a chrysalis or a cocoon (depending upon whether its a moth or butterfly and my lepidopterist days are too far in my past to identify the specific type of caterpillar...)


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> That's not grub right?


Looked like a blue grub but maybe I'm mistaken.


----------



## JerseyGreens

ken-n-nancy said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's not grub right?
> 
> 
> 
> No, that's not a grub. That's a caterpillar of some sort. Not a kind I'd expect to see in the lawn, either. I'm guessing it may have fallen out of a tree and is looking to make a chrysalis or a cocoon (depending upon whether its a moth or butterfly and my lepidopterist days are too far in my past to identify the specific type of caterpillar...)
Click to expand...

Thank you. It was right at the base of a tree which makes good sense.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> Don't mind me...I'm just going to eat this seedling right in front of your face!!





ken-n-nancy said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's not grub right?
> 
> 
> 
> No, that's not a grub. That's a caterpillar of some sort. Not a kind I'd expect to see in the lawn, either. I'm guessing it may have fallen out of a tree, vegetable garden, or flower garden, and is looking to make a chrysalis or a cocoon (depending upon whether its a moth or butterfly and my lepidopterist days are too far in my past to identify the specific type of caterpillar...)
Click to expand...

OK, I couldn't resist trying to identify it. Back when I was collecting butterflies and moths as a youngster, such identification was a difficult task, which involved poring through many pages in various books, reading descriptions, and referring to color palettes in the middle of the guidebook.

Now, with the magic of the Internet, it's a lot easier.

I'm pretty confident that's the caterpillar of the moth _Nadata gibbosa_. The moth is commonly known as the "White-Dotted Prominent Moth" and the caterpillar is commonly known as the "Green Oak Caterpillar."

What kind of tree was it under?

Apparently, it regularly eats oak leaves, but also eats birch, alder, maple, willow, plum, and cherry tree leaves. too. It won't hurt your grass.










More info than you probably ever would have wanted to know about it:
https://bugguide.net/node/view/1798
https://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species/Nadata-gibbosa


----------



## JerseyGreens

Thank you @ken-n-nancy - that is exactly it.

Under an oak tree. The color was absolutely stunning. I could have watched it for much longer. Beautiful.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> Under an oak tree. The color was absolutely stunning. I could have watched it for much longer. Beautiful.


Well, there it is. Tree ID by caterpillar found underneath... 

If only we knew of a caterpillar that selectively ate _Poa trivialis_, I'd work on breeding hundreds of them...


----------



## JerseyGreens

DASD: 26
DAG: 17

Applied 1.5oz per K Propi and 6oz per K Air8


----------



## OnTheLawn

Get us some pics, will ya?!


----------



## JerseyGreens

OnTheLawn said:


> Get us some pics, will ya?!


Will do tomorrow. No real change from Monday. I sprayed and went back in quick. Didn't spend too time out there.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Looks like I may have caught the fungus bug - I noticed some yellowing in the distance on my last updated pictures but not widespread like this.

I put down Granular Azoxy on Sunday and Propi yesterday.







Let me know what you guys think!

The close-up doesn't look terrible and not much I can do as Azoxy and Prop were both put down recently. Is it screaming for some food possibly?


----------



## OnTheLawn

The weather has been odd so not surprised some of the renos are doing weird things. Especially the KBG crowd. From the research I've done about the pout phase, this stuff happens because the plant is focused almost solely on what's going on beneath the soil. It should be ok and the systemic apps of propi and azoxy will keep most of it at bay. Whatever the plant is going through will likely grow out once plant gets out of pout and then whatever doesn't make it will fill in. Speaking from pure research here and no experience, but from what I gathered that's the consensus.

Looking good though! Focus on the majority. Most of what you have out is healthy looking KBG that is going to fill in tremendously once the roots are done doing what they need to do.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@OnTheLawn thanks man.

I'm waiting on @g-man to tell me to go on another vacation. The close up really doesn't look bad. Something is brewing though which worries me. However the fungicides are down so can't do much other than cut back on watering more.


----------



## g-man

Why Air8 in the middle of the reno?

Back off on watering and add some N. Granular.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> Why Air8 in the middle of the reno?
> 
> Back off on watering and add some N. Granular.


Thank you!

Screwdriver test wouldn't get past the topsoil layer without forcing my way into the native soil.

Sent some pictures to Dr. Weaver at GCF and he OK'd me using it/watering in right away.

I don't think is from the KOH because the yellow-ish hues were showing signs on a pic I took 10 days ago. Just very noticeable today. The weather is all over the place here. @bf7 @shadowlawnjutsu and myself just had fungus jump up in the past 24-48 hours.


----------



## bf7

@JerseyGreens it doesn't look bad. I noticed the slight browning from a distance a few days ago. As of today there are probably 8-10 small patches where it looks like the seedlings won't recover but there is plenty of green surrounding them. I'm waiting for the morning I wake up and it's running rampant. Crossing my fingers. We've put down the fungicides. I let the lawn dry out this morning before the first watering.

I think @OnTheLawn makes a great point about the weather. It can't be easy for seedlings to adjust rapidly from extreme humidity to cold nights, while being wet for much of the day. I feel like some disease is almost inevitable in these conditions. I'm banking on the advice from others here that once fert applications start, the more competitive grass will overtake the sickly ones and the fungus will gradually disappear. I'm probably going to drop some starter fertilizer (granular) within the next day or two.


----------



## g-man

I don't see fungus. I see potential for chlorosis. KOH is very high in pH and I dont think it is a wise choice in the middle of a Reno since I don't know what it can do to iron availability.

Too much water can be a problem with nutrient availability. Hence why I suggest to back of from watering and feed it fast granular nitrogen.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> I don't see fungus. I see potential for chlorosis. KOH is very high in pH and I dont think it is a wise choice in the middle of a Reno since I don't know what it can do to iron availability.
> 
> Too much water can be a problem with nutrient availability. Hence why I suggest to back of from watering and feed it fast granular nitrogen.


Fair points. You have my word. No more crazy stuff going down on this reno except granular AMS/CX products (when it warms up again)/and more fungicide per normal intervals.

I'll get granular AMS down at 0.25Lbs N per K later today.
Will move to watering once a day - I'm still at 3 light waterings due to my reseeds but they all germed...thinking that my 5pm watering was never fully drying out.

Also my PH was on the "low-ish" end side per the soil test...didn't think the KOH would tip the scales much...but again, no more of that nonsense on my yard. My bad.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@bf7 the competition is on with the healthy grass right now - food will help. The more mature blades near that Electric pole are a dark, healthy green. Those are the same ones that I showed that are spreading.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

What is KOH?


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> What is KOH?


Potassium Hydroxide - main ingredient in Air8 that I put down yesterday for a "chemical aeration".

I'm hitting myself because of course GCF said it was OK to use on my reno - they stand to make a profit by me using it.

In all honesty though it was watered in within 5 minutes of application - shouldn't be that...BUT if my PH in the first 2 inches of soil get super alkaline it would mess up the Iron uptake causing chlorosis aka yellow hues across the reno. Luckily I was on the acidic side per my soil test awhile back.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is KOH?
> 
> 
> 
> Potassium Hydroxide - main ingredient in Air8 that I put down yesterday for a "chemical aeration".
> 
> I'm hitting myself because of course GCF said it was OK to use on my reno - they stand to make a profit by me using it.
> 
> In all honesty though it was watered in within 5 minutes of application - shouldn't be that...BUT if my PH in the first 2 inches of soil get super alkaline it would mess up the Iron uptake causing chlorosis aka yellow hues across the reno. Luckily I was on the acidic side per my soil test awhile back.
Click to expand...

Whatever we're seeing it's probably not from KOH. It's probably because of too much water. Although I just water once everyday, I still spray by hand whenever I see the peat moss dry. I'll tune down my watering. Probably make it deeper and infrequent. I'll try twice a week. I think that should be fine especially with the weather that we have right now, I don't see the sun a lot lately.


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is KOH?
> 
> 
> 
> Potassium Hydroxide - main ingredient in Air8 that I put down yesterday for a "chemical aeration".
> 
> I'm hitting myself because of course GCF said it was OK to use on my reno - they stand to make a profit by me using it.
> 
> In all honesty though it was watered in within 5 minutes of application - shouldn't be that...BUT if my PH in the first 2 inches of soil get super alkaline it would mess up the Iron uptake causing chlorosis aka yellow hues across the reno. Luckily I was on the acidic side per my soil test awhile back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whatever we're seeing it's probably not from KOH. It's probably because of too much water. Although I just water once everyday, I still spray by hand whenever I see the peat moss dry. I'll tune down my watering. Probably make it deeper and infrequent. I'll try twice a week. I think that should be fine especially with the weather that we have right now, I don't see the sun a lot lately.
Click to expand...

I am 100% watering too much...thinking about my reseed but at this point screw em. Going to once a day.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is KOH?
> 
> 
> 
> Potassium Hydroxide - main ingredient in Air8 that I put down yesterday for a "chemical aeration".
> 
> I'm hitting myself because of course GCF said it was OK to use on my reno - they stand to make a profit by me using it.
> 
> In all honesty though it was watered in within 5 minutes of application - shouldn't be that...BUT if my PH in the first 2 inches of soil get super alkaline it would mess up the Iron uptake causing chlorosis aka yellow hues across the reno. Luckily I was on the acidic side per my soil test awhile back.
Click to expand...

Ugh. I have probably put down 2 or 3 Air8 apps since seed down. Thought it would be good for the roots in my clay. My iron levels were off the charts per my soil test so hoping that helps me out. My pH was also slightly acidic. I'll stop the Air8.


----------



## ricwilli

g-man said:


> I don't see fungus. I see potential for chlorosis. KOH is very high in pH and I dont think it is a wise choice in the middle of a Reno since I don't know what it can do to iron availability.
> 
> Too much water can be a problem with nutrient availability. Hence why I suggest to back of from watering and feed it fast granular nitrogen.


Glad I was following this thread. My plan was to apply Air8 this weekend. Looks like I will need to put the jug away till next year. Don't know how the grass is suppose to grow in the compacted areas. Hopefully the RGS can help a little.

Lawn is looking good......


----------



## g-man

Grass can grow on the cracks of concrete. The roots will find a way. We been growing grasses for hundred of years without any of these products.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@g-man can I throw down XSTART instead of just pure AMS - I'm thinking these little guys are wanting a little more in their bellies.

Like newborns getting sick of just milk or formula and wanting something to eat.

XSTART is a specialty starter fertilizer unlike any other on the market. Featuring ammonium sulfate, monoammonium phosphate, sulfate of potash, zinc sulfate, biochar, composted poultry manure, and infused with the root hair promoting peptide, it is designed with seed establishment in mind. Featuring a synergistic effect between acidifying N sources to keep phosphorous in solution and zinc sulfate complex with protein hydrolysate, the nutrients are able to be utilized immediately upon water. The synergy between zinc, poultry manure, phosphorous, and peptides provides the best of all available tools - NPK & biostimulant - to give seedlings their best foot forward. Though low in nitrogen, XSTART provides an unexpected kick.

If I don't notice the N kick within 3-4 days - I'll throw down 0.15 lbs per N via AMS. I didn't put down starter fert at seed down just a heads up.

Let me know your thoughts - thanks!


----------



## KoopHawk

g-man said:


> Grass can grow on the cracks of concrete. The roots will find a way. We been growing grasses for hundred of years without any of these products.


This. Sometime less is more. Feed it when its hungry. Water it when its thirsty. Watch it grow. Or in this stage, watch it pout! :thumbup:

g-man why the granular N suggestion?


----------



## g-man

@JerseyGreens I would throw down a fast release fertilizer (urea or ams). See how it responds.

@KoopHawk only because I fear the JerseyGreens will want to try a foliar feed on this young grass. It can be sprayed if it is immediately irrigated.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> @JerseyGreens I would throw down a fast release fertilizer (urea or ams). See how it responds.
> 
> @KoopHawk only because I fear the JerseyGreens will want to try a foliar feed on this young grass. It can be sprayed if it is immediately irrigated.


10-4.

Agree with @g-man here - spraying Humics, fungicide, even Tenacity can be done with some level of "rookie-ness". Spraying N without watering it in could spell trouble real quick if you get heavy-handed...


----------



## Zcape35

You are going to cut back on watering now? What is your new schedule going to be? I am at 24 DAG so I need to do this as well.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Once a day. 11am.


----------



## Zcape35

How long, are you going to double the time your were watering before? I was watering for about 4 minutes or so and am thinking about going to 8 minutes but just the one time per day. (My center rotors put out almost 5 GPM)


----------



## JerseyGreens

I'm also at 3-4 mins per zone 3x a day.

yes, doubling that 1x a day.

if it's dry by 6pm tomorrow then I'll tweak it by doing a manual cycle and soak - but definitely going to be 1x a day.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Threw down 0.25lbs N per K of granular AMS (tends to acidify the soil so this will take away any extra alkalinity my air8 app did yesterday).

Any tips on using a manual Wizz spreader for this?

Went out fairly evenly on the 1 setting (about 8 foot throwing width) but thinking of using setting 2 next week. A chunk dislodged and a bunch came down in one area - will keep a close eye on that but not concerned with the small about of N that I'm starting with.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Took another close pic. The more I look at this the more it screams nutrient deficient rather than fungus. Although I do see some yellowing. All I can do is keep an eye on it.



Most dense area due to washout:


----------



## bf7

Are you seeing the yellowing mainly in the dense washout zones?

Tomorrow I'm spreading 0.3 lbs N/k of 18(urea based)-24-12 granules with hand spreader. Then the following week I'll start straight urea foliar applications at 0.2 -0.25 lbs N/k.

Also reducing water to 1x per day in late morning. Funny how we are all reaching these milestones simultaneously.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Are you seeing the yellowing mainly in the dense washout zones?
> 
> Tomorrow I'm spreading 0.3 lbs N/k of 18(urea based)-24-12 granules with hand spreader. Then the following week I'll start straight urea foliar applications at 0.2 -0.25 lbs N/k.
> 
> Also reducing water to 1x per day in late morning. Funny how we are all reaching these milestones simultaneously.


We are all located in similar growing zones. If not the same one so makes sense.

The yellowing is random. It's not everywhere. Like that dense portion barely has any yellowing. Whereas the 1st picture is less dense but has some yellow leafs.

Maybe it's the Azoxy / Propi saving what it can!


----------



## bf7

Yeah I'm praying the N evens out all my lime green patches. I hate it.

I'm at a loss to explain the dichotomy between front and back. I know I've said this before, but the front is a lush dark green. The back is so spotty with colors and thin. An extra extra long pout.

The disease is also very random. It's in some spots that are relatively dry which doesn't make much sense.

I will never understand how grass works.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Yeah I'm praying the N evens out all my lime green patches. I hate it.
> 
> I'm at a loss to explain the dichotomy between front and back. I know I've said this before, but the front is a lush dark green. The back is so spotty with colors and thin. An extra extra long pout.
> 
> The disease is also very random. It's in some spots that are relatively dry which doesn't make much sense.
> 
> I will never understand how grass works.


It can be many different reasons. We are learning on the fly and like many here have taught us - time will tell. The work we are putting in now is for a nice lawn in 2021.

For all we know your backyard and my front may take off once it gets food which it's getting now.

You got this!


----------



## bf7

No, you got this!!

Honestly wouldn't be surprised if the back ends up looking better in the end. I feel like the front is almost too dense this early.

Your N is down. Time to crack open a cold one, sit back and enjoy.


----------



## jhealy748

Poor insurance guys worry too much we've been trained for it! I swear I think I have a disease every other day I mow.


----------



## JerseyGreens

jhealy748 said:


> Poor insurance guys worry too much we've been trained for it! I swear I think I have a disease every other day I mow.


I basically get paid to assume risk on behalf of an Insurance company...I find it easier analyzing the Freedom Tower data points easier than my lawn...

One being a fixed asset and the lawn...hell it changes every day at this point!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Posting this here as purely a journal entry when I look back this down the road.



Thinking the yellowing is due to that wet layer and lack of nutrition.


----------



## KoopHawk

Once you're able to back off watering you'll be able to let that problem area dry out in between waterings. That should really help with your color as the grass matures.


----------



## JerseyGreens

KoopHawk said:


> Once you're able to back off watering you'll be able to let that problem area dry out in between waterings. That should really help with your color as the grass matures.


Indeed. I had surface water issues/muddiness during the Reno which I fixed by changing out some heads and more waterings but less times.

Didn't realize that inch was still muddied up under the soil. Definitely looks like N deficiency as well which I'll cure over the next few weeks.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Drinking that N up like it's kool aid. Hasn't looked this good to date.

We have lift off.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@ken-n-nancy we were talking about this on the renovators forum but you helped me figure out that my Reno is lagging due to my new babies fighting for N that is being taken up by the decomposition of this under the topsoil:



I'm shooting in the dark here as it would be hard for any of us to figure out the right answer but given my situation do you think I should be maybe at 0.5 lbs N per K for spoon-feeding weekly given these circumstances/competition in the soil for N?

If I could rewind I would have thrown down an insane amount of OceanGro on this dead grass before spreading topsoil but you live and learn!


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> @ken-n-nancy we were talking about this on the renovators forum but you helped me figure out that my Reno is lagging due to my new babies fighting for N that is being taken up by the decomposition of this under the topsoil:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm shooting in the dark here as it would be hard for any of us to figure out the right answer but given my situation do you think I should be maybe at 0.5 lbs N per K for spoon-feeding weekly given these circumstances/competition in the soil for N?
> 
> If I could rewind I would have thrown down an insane amount of OceanGro on this dead grass before spreading topsoil but you live and learn!


OK, so all that dead grass (what is that, about a 4 inch height of cut?) was left there and just buried under the new top soil? How much soil went on top of that?

Wait, maybe that's in the reno thread somewhere... Let me read a bit... OK, looks like you (well, your work crew, actually ) spread 40 cubic yards on 6,500 sqft -- that's a depth of 2 inches on average, which seems consistent with the soil core you posted for us a few days ago.

OK, now I'm trying to figure out what you've applied so far since seed-down. Did you apply any fertilizer at seed down? If so, what?

Reading through the recent entries in your journal, it seems like you applied 0.25#N/ksqft of granular AMS on Thursday, Sept 17th? Have you started to see a color change from that yet? I see a photo you posted on Friday, Sept 18th that sounds like you feel it's positive, but that's still pretty early to see a marked change.

Often, a too-lightly-applied granular fertilizer will result in a "splotchy" look, with darker green (well fed) and lighter green areas (underfed) areas. Are you seeing anything like that? The danger is that since grass turns yellowish for a lot of different reasons, It can be hard to tell if the yellowish areas are the under-fertilized or over-fertilized areas. I recently saw a picture that @Babameca posted in davegravy's journal that shows what we think is underfertilized new KBG with a light granular urea app. (See below.) If you see that sort of thing, it's probably a plea for more fertilizer! (Although it could be a warning against too much fertilizer, but I think that would look more solid green with yellow splotches, rather than what the picture below looks like, which is solid yellowish-green with green splotches.)









Anyway, I'd wait another day or two to see what the response looks like to the fert you already applied. If it looks like a positive response, I'd apply the 0.5#N/ksqft you suggest and wait and see how the response is to that before deciding what to do next. One step at a time...

(Although the right thing might be weekly 0.5#N/ksqft applications, but if you do that for a few weeks, that amounts to a monthly total of 2#N/ksqft, which new KBG can handle, but you'll need to be real careful about overlaps, because if you end up applying double that in places (i.e. 4#N/ksqft in a month) you're going to have overfertilization problems.)


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Oh, and I should have mentioned that typically overfertilization from a granular fertilizer will show something similar to a dog urine spot -- where there's a yellowish or dead area surrounded by tall green grass. That happens when the too-fertilized section dies out, but the thriving ring of tall grass around the dead spot was basically given as much nitrogen as it can handle and goes into super-growth mode. There's one of those a few houses down our street in a recently-seeded section of shoulder that I should take a picture of to post as an ideal example of a dog urine spot. Need to remember to take a pic next time I walk by it...


----------



## JerseyGreens

@ken-n-nancy I love how in depth you get with your responses.

Around 3.5inch HOC got buried. 2 inches of topsoil. I thought this would be beautiful OM over time. Slipped my mind that even compost doesn't speed up unless you add N.

No starter fert.
No fert until the .25 lbs N on Thursday. I see a slight response. Could also be all my reseeding germ making the overall lawn look healthy. 
I'm thinking of 0.25 lbs of N from AMS and 0.25 lbs N from CX GRN or CX START. Just more macros and throwing in some PK.

One day at a time. I'll decide tomorrow or Monday on how to proceed but appreciate you letting me know the benefits and potential pitfalls of overapplying.

Thanks!


----------



## JerseyGreens

ken-n-nancy said:


> Oh, and I should have mentioned that typically overfertilization from a granular fertilizer will show something similar to a dog urine spot -- where there's a yellowish or dead area surrounded by tall green grass. That happens when the too-fertilized section dies out, but the thriving ring of tall grass around the dead spot was basically given as much nitrogen as it can handle and goes into super-growth mode. There's one of those a few houses down our street in a recently-seeded section of shoulder that I should take a picture of to post as an ideal example of a dog urine spot. Need to remember to take a pic next time I walk by it...


Great point. My hand spreader dumped a ton of AMS on an area once a large chunk was broken up/clogging the spreader. If that area doesn't show fert burn in 24-36 hours it's going to absolutely conclude in my mind that I need to hit everything harder. Keeping an eye on that area.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Oh, another trick I meant to mention, but forgot to include while looking through your old posts...

If you're not sure what to do, sometimes it makes sense to treat a section of the lawn differently (kind of like a control in a scientific experiment) to test out the approach. If you think more fertilizer is the thing to do, but aren't really sure, you could leave a section unfertilized. Or, you could apply 0.25#N/ksqft to half the lawn and 0.50#N/ksqft to the other half.

If you find that the 0.5#N/ksqft section looks better after 3-4 days, you can always add more to the 0.25#N/ksqft section to get it back on track.

If you find that the 0.5#N/ksqft section all turned yellow, well, then at least you only stunted half the lawn...


----------



## JerseyGreens

ken-n-nancy said:


> Oh, another trick I meant to mention, but forgot to include while looking through your old posts...
> 
> If you're not sure what to do, sometimes it makes sense to treat a section of the lawn differently (kind of like a control in a scientific experiment) to test out the approach. If you think more fertilizer is the thing to do, but aren't really sure, you could leave a section unfertilized. Or, you could apply 0.25#N/ksqft to half the lawn and 0.50#N/ksqft to the other half.
> 
> If you find that the 0.5#N/ksqft section looks better after 3-4 days, you can always add more to the 0.25#N/ksqft section to get it back on track.
> 
> If you find that the 0.5#N/ksqft section all turned yellow, well, then at least you only stunted half the lawn...


Yes! Get a little bill nye the science guy on this Reno. I am definitely doing this!!


----------



## Alex1389

JerseyGreens said:


> Drinking that N up like it's kool aid. Hasn't looked this good to date.
> 
> We have lift off.


FWIW, your renovation is miles ahead of where my renovation was around this time last year. This is going to look great by Halloween.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> Drinking that N up like it's kool aid. Hasn't looked this good to date.
> 
> We have lift off.


That is some serious top growth! I would be all over mowing this today if you didn't already.

Not sure if it was the N or your re-seed or what, but definitely some horizontal action happening too. I can barely see those bare spots anymore.

Patience is a virtue my friend.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Thank you @Alex1389 - yours looks great for a year old!

@bf7 - no mowing yet. It's still stuck. Its at 1.5in at some spots. My manual reel can't pull these delicate blades into the reel. The hell strip is mowed every 3-4 days though.

Many gaps have filled in due to the reseed for sure. Still slow growing. It's enjoying whatever is happening underground at the expense of up top.

The N is kicking in. The overall yellow/unhealthy hues are starting to turn green. Upon closer examination the fine blades are trying to thicken up/mature with the food.

X START doing down tomorrow.

I'm going to do every Thursday 0.25 lbs N from AMS and every Sunday or Monday 0.25 lbs N from X START or X GRN. Will do this until the daytime temps cap out at high 50s then transition all to AMS since the organic fert will take longer to break down in low temps.

Game time!

FYI - in my case I'm needing the extra N for a few reasons. For other renovators please follow the Reno journal or mentors helping you as each Reno is different!


----------



## JerseyGreens

9/10:


9/20:


Progress.


----------



## Zcape35

Hell yes, glad to see this making great progress!!!


----------



## OnTheLawn

Great progress!! Looking very good sir. Considering all that this reno went through, you've done a hell of a job.


----------



## Squire515

JerseyGreens said:


> Squire515 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking good, Greens. Lookin good.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you driven by recently?
> 
> Finally starting to look like a lawn again during the day.
Click to expand...

Yes I drove by a few days ago on my way to that butcher shop near you. It looks great!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

That's looking great! Few more days and you'll be mowing like crazy.

Why XSTRT/XGRN?


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> That's looking great! Few more days and you'll be mowing like crazy.
> 
> Why XSTRT/XGRN?


I think it's on the verge of waking up for sure which means I'll get much needed steps with my manual reel mower.

The XSTRT just because I never added any starter fert and I think some Phos will help. Nothing scientific to this - with one bag I'll get two apps out of this and call it a day.

The XGRN because it has some sulfur/calcium/iron + the biochar and peptides. Plus @g-man kind of did a test plot so to speak on his lawn reno where he showed one side which had some XGRN added to the spoon-feeding and it clearly helped.

Keep in my mind the above 2 will only supply 50% of my total spoon-feeding N. The other 50% will remain AMS/Urea.


----------



## JerseyGreens

DASD: 30!
DAG: 21

Been a month folks - what a ride.

Took out the blower and got some leaves off the lawn.

Applied 0.25# N per K via XSTART (8-24-4)

AMS app from this past Thursday is showing visible signs of "green-ing" up the overall lawn. Thanks to those that noticed it was N issues causing it.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> DASD: 30!
> DAG: 21
> 
> Been a month folks - what a ride.
> 
> Took out the blower and got some leaves off the lawn.
> 
> Applied 0.25# N per K via XSTART (8-24-4)
> 
> AMS app from this past Thursday is showing visible signs of "green-ing" up the overall lawn. Thanks to those that noticed it was N issues causing it.


Time flies! Feel just like yesterday when we're trying to kill and prep our soil. Great to have you guys on this journey!


----------



## Lust4Lawn

So are you now doing weekly spoon feedings?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Lust4Lawn said:


> So are you now doing weekly spoon feedings?


Yes and no - I'm doing 2 spoon feeds of 0.25# N apiece. One usually on Sunday/Monday, and the other on Weds/Thurs.

I made a miscalculation on my reno. If you look back - my topsoil was spread on top of a thick/matted down layer of grass. Dead grass that had a ton of micro/macro nutrients in it...I decided to let it decompose over time and make great OM 2-3 inches under my topsoil...

Well to kickstart that process it requires a significant amount of N (before it can start returning N back). That decomp process is competing against my seedlings for N - hence why I'm pushing 0.5# per week but split apps.

I may pair this down based on how the lawn starts to look.


----------



## JerseyGreens

DASD: 30 / DAG:21

Officially done pouting on the original seed germ. .


----------



## SNOWBOB11

It's looking good. It's at this point that you realize yes you are going to have a lawn again .


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> DASD: 30 / DAG:21
> 
> Officially done pouting on the original seed germ. .


Nice! Does this mean you are ready to mow or are you waiting for the re-seed babies to grow first?


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> DASD: 30 / DAG:21
> 
> Officially done pouting on the original seed germ. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice! Does this mean you are ready to mow or are you waiting for the re-seed babies to grow first?
Click to expand...

I'll take a whirl with the manual reel today or tomorrow. If I get clippings great, If not then I'll cut the hell strip only.

Doesn't help that I got a 7 blade manual reel which I think is also making it more difficult to get the fine blades cut.


----------



## dleonard11122

What HOC are you going to aiming for with this lawn?


----------



## JerseyGreens

1 inch


----------



## JerseyGreens

@bf7

No dice on cutting the front yard. No clippings. 

A lot of the growth is at the multi leaf stage/maturing, its just growing very close to the ground versus upright.

Maybe the Phos I threw down will help the seedlings get a backbone (by rooting deeper).

Lateral/compact growth is an extremely good thing to see but I need to cut this at some point!!


----------



## bf7

I feel like your reno is a mirror image of my backyard. Can't mow it but I'm seeing so much spreading progress everyday. No need to worry.

How much P did you put down?


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> I feel like your reno is a mirror image of my backyard. Can't mow it but I'm seeing so much spreading progress everyday. No need to worry.
> 
> How much P did you put down?


0.75# per K.
8-24-4 and damn CX products stink. My whole garage is stanking!

I have a theory that spots of my yard that are getting full day light... I mean from nearly dusk til dawn are still pouting/moving laterally...no reason to grow taller for more sun as they are shined on all day.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like your reno is a mirror image of my backyard. Can't mow it but I'm seeing so much spreading progress everyday. No need to worry.
> 
> How much P did you put down?
> 
> 
> 
> 0.75# per K.
> 8-24-4 and damn CX products stink. My whole garage is stanking!
> 
> I have a theory that spots of my yard that are getting full day light... I mean from nearly dusk til dawn are still pouting/moving laterally...no reason to grow taller for more sun as they are shined on all day.
Click to expand...

Hahaha can't avoid a little stanking in this hobby. I put down about half the P that you did last week.

That would make a lot of sense since my backyard literally gets sun all day.

I thought KBG was supposed to thrive in the sun but my shady spots look divine!


----------



## JerseyGreens

@bf7 it does thrive in the full sun, just takes some time before it needs that top growth in full sun I guess.

I'm not stressing - @KoopHawk got his first mow in at day 45 on his bluebank mono - I'm 2 weeks away from that point. It's getting there.


----------



## KoopHawk

I think you guys are on to something with this full sun - pout idea. My lawn is 100% full sun all the time besides what is shaded by the house at dusk and dawn. I am approaching day 120 and I still have a lot of areas that aren't getting cut with my deck set at 2". Especially where the grass my be a little thinner, there is no competition for sunlight and therefore no reason for the plant to have vertical growth...

Since I'm still "working" from home, I ran outside and snapped a couple of pics.

One of my thinner spots. A lot of grass under the 2" mark.









This spot is doing well. Lots of grass pushing up over 2.5".









This is my thickest spot. Makes sense that it is pushing 3" fighting for sunlight.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Firstly - thank you for running out and taking pictures at multiple different locations.

Secondly - absolutely love the way the BlueBank blades/texture look, but I'm biased!

Lastly - I'm hoping the experts can chime in on our theory. Maybe the compact Midnight type KBG cultivars in full sun absolutely grow at a snails pace as they get enough sunlight even being so short.

I'm going to add some pics as well. The competition areas - around my home, around the trees/electric pole are exceeding 3 inches...the grass not being shaded at all...just hanging out...shooting new blades out/tillering/happy.


----------



## bf7

KoopHawk said:


> I think you guys are on to something with this full sun - pout idea. My lawn is 100% full sun all the time besides what is shaded by the house at dusk and dawn. I am approaching day 120 and I still have a lot of areas that aren't getting cut with my deck set at 2". Especially where the grass my be a little thinner, there is no competition for sunlight and therefore no reason for the plant to have vertical growth...
> 
> Since I'm still "working" from home, I ran outside and snapped a couple of pics.
> 
> One of my thinner spots. A lot of grass under the 2" mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This spot is doing well. Lots of grass pushing up over 2.5".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is my thickest spot. Makes sense that it is pushing 3" fighting for sunlight.


This grass is only 120 days old AND was a spring reno? Looks amazing!


----------



## JerseyGreens

@bf7 looks great right!?

Also brace yourself - he has an area pouting for 120 days+. I'm thinking our yards are going to seriously get good mows in next Spring. Just being pragmatic!

At least you can mow your front yard reno. I got nada, haha!


----------



## bf7

Haha I'm just going to pretend I didn't hear that part about the 120 pout. But maybe ours will come up sooner since his was dealing with summer heat for a big portion of the period.

A guy can dream.

If you call pivoting a hunk of metal around a ton of nooks and crannies "mowing", then yes, I still have the front. It's way more fun to mow the big open spaces. This is getting ridiculous!


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Haha I'm just going to pretend I didn't hear that part about the 120 pout. But maybe ours will come up sooner since his was dealing with summer heat for a big portion of the period.
> 
> A guy can dream.
> 
> If you call pivoting a hunk of metal around a ton of nooks and crannies "mowing", then yes, I still have the front. It's way more fun to mow the big open spaces. This is getting ridiculous!


it sure is!

I can see how a greensmower would be ideal in our situation because it helps the grass stand up and then get cut...manual reels will struggle with lawn creeping so close to the ground.

Loving this weather though - seriously perfect weather to grow grass in our area!


----------



## bf7

No doubt. Perfect weather. Great for dropping N too - the devil on my shoulder is saying get out there and make it rain fert. The angel says I must wait until Friday :x


----------



## KoopHawk

bf7 said:


> Haha I'm just going to pretend I didn't hear that part about the 120 pout. But maybe ours will come up sooner since his was dealing with summer heat for a big portion of the period.
> 
> A guy can dream.
> 
> If you call pivoting a hunk of metal around a ton of nooks and crannies "mowing", then yes, I still have the front. It's way more fun to mow the big open spaces. This is getting ridiculous!


I'm hoping the daytime heat, warm nights, lack of rain, and long, sunny days of summer were a contributing factor to the pout too!


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> I don't see fungus. I see potential for chlorosis. KOH is very high in pH and I dont think it is a wise choice in the middle of a Reno since I don't know what it can do to iron availability.
> 
> Too much water can be a problem with nutrient availability. Hence why I suggest to back of from watering and feed it fast granular nitrogen.


FYI - this did the trick.

Thank you for all of your help!


----------



## JerseyGreens

When do most folks curtail the fungicide apps during a reno in the Northeast?


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Personally, we have never used a fungicide on any of our renovations, but we have always seeded near 2.0 - 2.5 # / ksqft range and haven't had to deal with real dense seedlings, other than when we've had washout into a pile.

If you have fungus issues on your regular lawn that normally have you treating in the fall, I'd treat the renovation the same as what you've found works for the mature lawn.


----------



## JerseyGreens

ken-n-nancy said:


> Personally, we have never used a fungicide on any of our renovations, but we have always seeded near 2.0 - 2.5 # / ksqft range and haven't had to deal with real dense seedlings, other than when we've had washout into a pile.
> 
> If you have fungus issues on your regular lawn that normally have you treating in the fall, I'd treat the renovation the same as what you've found works for the mature lawn.


Great thanks! We have quite a lot of fungus pressure in my area although in years past once the nights got cooler I never put anything down.

I may do one last prop/Azoxy mixed app once I'm able to and call it a day!


----------



## bf7

ken-n-nancy said:


> Personally, we have never used a fungicide on any of our renovations, but we have always seeded near 2.0 - 2.5 # / ksqft range and haven't had to deal with real dense seedlings, other than when we've had washout into a pile.
> 
> If you have fungus issues on your regular lawn that normally have you treating in the fall, I'd treat the renovation the same as what you've found works for the mature lawn.


I am getting burned by the seedlings that washed into piles of peat moss. They are coming in very light green and a lot of them have fungus. It's the biggest concern I have for my reno right now. @ken-n-nancy in your experience, do the lighter colors go away as the darker, healthier plants spread? I am hearing this from other people but trying to gather as many opinions as possible.

I have already put down azoxy and the lawn is dry for most of the day and night. Most the lawn is looking good but these lime green spots scattered throughout are pretty unsightly.

Are you getting any of this @JerseyGreens?


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> ken-n-nancy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, we have never used a fungicide on any of our renovations, but we have always seeded near 2.0 - 2.5 # / ksqft range and haven't had to deal with real dense seedlings, other than when we've had washout into a pile.
> 
> If you have fungus issues on your regular lawn that normally have you treating in the fall, I'd treat the renovation the same as what you've found works for the mature lawn.
> 
> 
> 
> I am getting burned by the seedlings that washed into piles of peat moss. They are coming in very light green and a lot of them have fungus. It's the biggest concern I have for my reno right now. @ken-n-nancy in your experience, do the lighter colors go away as the darker, healthier plants spread? I am hearing this from other people but trying to gather as many opinions as possible.
> 
> I have already put down azoxy and the lawn is dry for most of the day and night. Most the lawn is looking good but these lime green spots scattered throughout are pretty unsightly.
> 
> Are you getting any of this @JerseyGreens?
Click to expand...

I am absolutely getting this. It's a mix of lack of nutrients of those seedlings competing for food and fungus. My hope is that enough of them survive the winter and make it through to next spring and spread accordingly. I'm not thinning anything out on purpose although it crossed my mind.

Letting mother nature pick which ones survive.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ken-n-nancy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, we have never used a fungicide on any of our renovations, but we have always seeded near 2.0 - 2.5 # / ksqft range and haven't had to deal with real dense seedlings, other than when we've had washout into a pile.
> 
> If you have fungus issues on your regular lawn that normally have you treating in the fall, I'd treat the renovation the same as what you've found works for the mature lawn.
> 
> 
> 
> I am getting burned by the seedlings that washed into piles of peat moss. They are coming in very light green and a lot of them have fungus. It's the biggest concern I have for my reno right now. @ken-n-nancy in your experience, do the lighter colors go away as the darker, healthier plants spread? I am hearing this from other people but trying to gather as many opinions as possible.
> 
> I have already put down azoxy and the lawn is dry for most of the day and night. Most the lawn is looking good but these lime green spots scattered throughout are pretty unsightly.
> 
> Are you getting any of this @JerseyGreens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am absolutely getting this. It's a mix of lack of nutrients of those seedlings competing for food and fungus. My hope is that enough of them survive the winter and make it through to next spring and spread accordingly. I'm not thinning anything out on purpose although it crossed my mind.
> 
> Letting mother nature pick which ones survive.
Click to expand...

Good deal. My only regret is right after the storms, I wish I had spread the piles of peat out more before they sprouted. Live and learn. Nothing really we can do now except like you said, try to break them up which I also think will do more harm than good.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am getting burned by the seedlings that washed into piles of peat moss. They are coming in very light green and a lot of them have fungus. It's the biggest concern I have for my reno right now. @ken-n-nancy in your experience, do the lighter colors go away as the darker, healthier plants spread? I am hearing this from other people but trying to gather as many opinions as possible.
> 
> I have already put down azoxy and the lawn is dry for most of the day and night. Most the lawn is looking good but these lime green spots scattered throughout are pretty unsightly.
> 
> Are you getting any of this @JerseyGreens?
> 
> 
> 
> I am absolutely getting this. It's a mix of lack of nutrients of those seedlings competing for food and fungus. My hope is that enough of them survive the winter and make it through to next spring and spread accordingly. I'm not thinning anything out on purpose although it crossed my mind.
> 
> Letting mother nature pick which ones survive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good deal. My only regret is right after the storms, I wish I had spread the piles of peat out more before they sprouted. Live and learn. Nothing really we can do now except like you said, try to break them up which I also think will do more harm than good.
Click to expand...

Same here, all the area that got washed where the peat moss piled up tends to have a yellowish color but right beside it is a bare spot. I hope it could fix itself without having to do anything. If it stays that way next spring, I will be aerating that area.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

bf7 said:


> ken-n-nancy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, we have never used a fungicide on any of our renovations, but we have always seeded near 2.0 - 2.5 # / ksqft range and haven't had to deal with real dense seedlings, other than when we've had washout into a pile.
> 
> If you have fungus issues on your regular lawn that normally have you treating in the fall, I'd treat the renovation the same as what you've found works for the mature lawn.
> 
> 
> 
> I am getting burned by the seedlings that washed into piles of peat moss. They are coming in very light green and a lot of them have fungus. It's the biggest concern I have for my reno right now. @ken-n-nancy in your experience, do the lighter colors go away as the darker, healthier plants spread? I am hearing this from other people but trying to gather as many opinions as possible.
Click to expand...

I haven't had big issues with too-dense patches in the past. I only recall one time I had a very overly dense patch, which was in a very late-seeded renovation. As a result, it didn't have any fungus issues in the fall (due to being so late in the season) and in the spring, I think it kind of just thinned itself out as it was a quite shady area.

I'll take a look through old lawn journals and see if I can find a pic...

Did find an old pic from our 2015 side lawn renovation journal (taken on 2015-09-21, day 12 after seed-down):









Another photo showing context in lawn at Day 16:









A photo the following spring at early green-up at Day 228 (24 April 2016):









Photo two months later when everything caught up at Day 273 (8 June 2016):


----------



## JerseyGreens

@ken-n-nancy can't find that patch now!

I'm still amazed at how you survived a reno without mowing it and it was mature enough to withstand winter.

Goes to prove that these little seedlings we all have will be just fine and if they haven't done so - will take off in the Spring!


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> @ken-n-nancy can't find that patch now!
> 
> I'm still amazed at how you survived a reno without mowing it and it was mature enough to withstand winter.
> 
> Goes to prove that these little seedlings we all have will be just fine and if they haven't done so - will take off in the Spring!


Well, the seed-down date was way too late for all-KBG in New Hampshire. You're absolutely right though -- those little seedlings are a lot tougher than we give them credit for.

Also, I think we usually think of winter being the worst challenge for the grass -- probably because we would surely freeze to death if left outside all winter. However, I've come to learn that winter is nowhere near as big a problem for our cool season grasses as summer -- summer is the time that really challenges a lawn, especially a young one. Hence, the recommendation for fall seeding, rather than spring seeding...


----------



## bf7

@ken-n-nancy excellent time lapse! Your lawn ended up looking beautiful. I hope you didn't reno that area again!

All of this is making me feel better. I don't think I will freak out about the lime spots anymore unless they are still there at the end of the spring. I just hope the disease doesn't spread to the healthy grass.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

bf7 said:


> @ken-n-nancy excellent time lapse! Your lawn ended up looking beautiful. I hope you didn't reno that area again!
> 
> All of this is making me feel better. I don't think I will freak out about the lime spots anymore unless they are still there at the end of the spring. I just hope the disease doesn't spread to the healthy grass.


I haven't renovated that area again. I have repaired a few patches in it where _Poa trivialis_ returned. There's still an ongoing battle there with _Poa trivialis_ but I haven't re-renovated it, as I don't think doing so would cure the problem. Grass still struggles there because of too much shade (even for Bewitched) but it's hanging on, albeit thin in the shady areas. The only real cure is to get more light there by taking down more trees.

I'll stop hijacking JerseyGreen's thread, but for encouragement that your reno (and @JerseyGreen's) is doing great, and that even if it has trouble spots, that they'll fill in. Below is the last "overhead" photo (which is the most critical view, by far) of our 2015 reno before winter, and a second photo of it when I finally considered the renovation to be worthy of a "graduation photo."

Day 42, 2015-10-21: (last progress before winter)









Day 273, 8 June 2016: (graduation photo)


----------



## JerseyGreens

Give this man a round of applause - @ken-n-nancy - I crown him the official KBG Reno Therapist!


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> Give this man a round of applause - @ken-n-nancy - I crown him the official KBG Reno Therapist!


Ha! Only because I've done enough bad renovations to make everybody else's "normal" renovation comparatively awesome! 

I'm also posting these "it will be okay" postings as much as a reminder to myself -- looking at our current ongoing renovation's slow, slow, progress in 4 weeks makes it seem hopeless. I'm needing the reassurance to be reminded how much things will turn around the next spring as much as all of you!


----------



## KoopHawk

Those October to June reno pics are incredible!


----------



## JerseyGreens

The color is finally coming through after the food started.

9/17:


9/21:


9/25:


I can tell right now I'm going to love a mono. When everything looks exactly the same it will be very satisfying!


----------



## JerseyGreens

DASD: 34 / DAG: 25

0.25# N per K via granular AMS

Cut the hell strip. 
Tried cutting the main front yard. Some comes off but not much.


----------



## bf7

Looking nice and dark! It's exciting. I noticed a pretty dramatic difference in color within 12 hours of putting down urea. Love it.


----------



## g-man

Are you watering in the evening?

Do you have a top view, like from the window?


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> Are you watering in the evening?
> 
> Do you have a top view, like from the window?


No. Sprinklers were on during this pic because I had just thrown down the AMS. I'm at once a day at 11am. If it was windy I top it off at 3pm.

Aerial pictures are terrible but a lot of it can't pick up the reseedlings.









Before:




I'm hoping the washed out areas start looking like the thick portions soon.

Thoughts? @g-man


----------



## g-man

I don't know why you posted the before images. At first I did not noticed and I was thinking, he needs prg or sod.

The first image is the worst area and it will continue to fill in. Don't expect to play football in that area for Thanksgiving, but it should fill. In month, you should be able to move plugs from the side of the house to that area using a pro plugger.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> I don't know why you posted the before images. At first I did not noticed and I was thinking, he needs prg or sod.
> 
> The first image is the worst area and it will continue to fill in. Don't expect to play football in that area for Thanksgiving, but it should fill. In month, you should be able to move plugs from the side of the house to that area using a pro plugger.


Ah. You thought those before pictures were current? If that was my current state of this Reno I'd be crying...

I take it as a compliment that you didn't tell me to throw more seed down. 👏


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Those washout area looks a lot better. It's really a waiting game. Pretty soon it'll fill in like there was no washout. A lot of my washout area has improved after 2 weeks. But the days within those two weeks feels like nothing is happening. But when I compared the pictures it gave me a big smile.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Color continuing to deepen.
Front should be mowable this week.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> Color continuing to deepen.
> Front should be mowable this week.


Looking good!


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> I don't know why you posted the before images. At first I did not noticed and I was thinking, he needs prg or sod.
> 
> The first image is the worst area and it will continue to fill in. Don't expect to play football in that area for Thanksgiving, but it should fill. In month, you should be able to move plugs from the side of the house to that area using a pro plugger.


Appreciate the pro-plugger idea. Any science to it, or just pick the plugs out of a super thick area and relocate them to extremely bare areas in a month or so and water them in nicely?

2/4/6 inch setting?

Thanks!


----------



## JerseyGreens

ken-n-nancy said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Color continuing to deepen.
> Front should be mowable this week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking good!
Click to expand...

Thanks! Pretty amazing to see this deep of a color this early in the game. Always heard KBG takes a year or 2 before it gets that iconic dark green color.

A few of us this year are seeing amazing color - @bf7 is as well. Obvious correlation to Iron being available in the soil but...I'm amazed.


----------



## bf7

That color is sweeeet man! 0.5 lbs per week, right? The Bluebank is eating that s**t up. Hopefully you can get some clippings this week. I have many spots that are surging up but it's going to be a while before I can do a "blanket" mow.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> That color is sweeeet man! 0.5 lbs per week, right? The Bluebank is eating that s**t up. Hopefully you can get some clippings this week. I have many spots that are surging up but it's going to be a while before I can do a "blanket" mow.


Basically, if not every 7 days then every 8-9. Throwing down the rest of that CX STRT stanking up my garage early this week.

I may skip out on using any CX GRN this year as I don't want too much K in the lawn before winter. It raises the chances of Snow mold.

That should come in handy for the Spring Green-up though!


----------



## Di3soft

JerseyGreens said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know why you posted the before images. At first I did not noticed and I was thinking, he needs prg or sod.
> 
> The first image is the worst area and it will continue to fill in. Don't expect to play football in that area for Thanksgiving, but it should fill. In month, you should be able to move plugs from the side of the house to that area using a pro plugger.
> 
> 
> 
> Appreciate the pro-plugger idea. Any science to it, or just pick the plugs out of a super thick area and relocate them to extremely bare areas in a month or so and water them in nicely?
> 
> 2/4/6 inch setting?
> 
> Thanks!
Click to expand...

I also want to know this, have some very thick spots I could pull plugs from, I'm 46 dag not sure when I could do this


----------



## g-man

I use the full 6 in and move from the thick spot to the thin spot. I did it in November. They wont spread this year, but they will ready in spring.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> I use the full 6 in and move from the thick spot to the thin spot. I did it in November. They wont spread this year, but they will ready in spring.


Perfect thanks! I'll make that happen in Nov. It's spreading on its own like wildfire. Definitely ready for a good mow.


----------



## Jay20nj

Looking much better. Ill never forget that washout day. I avoided a lot of what you got but still lost a good portion of the back. Pro plugger is easy, just tedious. Bring headphones. Takes a while


----------



## JerseyGreens

Thanks @Jay20nj! It will be a relaxing Thanksgiving. Just plugging away.

The morning below was rough - I remember watching the dirt/seed/peat washing into the street the night before:


Today:


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

The further along I get on this reno, the more I realize how good KBG spreads. Looking at your last photo it didn't look like you had a washout. We're almost near the finish line. I think this is the most exciting part of the reno where you just have to mow it, feed it and watch haw it gets better everyday.

By the way, your lawn is starting to look better than your neighbors.


----------



## bf7

How are your peat moss bumps feeling Jersey? Mine still feel pretty darn bumpy. I can't tell if the bumps are all peat or some of it is actually uneven soil. I know theoretically they should decompose but annoying not knowing if I will have a flat lawn next year. Grass is growing higher in the bumps so it gives the lawn an unkept appearance, even the day after I mow.

Not sure if the below gif will work but while we're sharing memories of that sick washout feeling in the moment, here you go. All that hard work flowing down the sidewalk, and not knowing what the future will hold. The pain lessens a bit with every passing day.



I have an area in the far back that I seeded for the first time 2 weeks ago. Had no rain since then. Came in like a dream - perfectly even germ and so flat. I can only imagine if our whole yards had that kind of luck.


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> The further along I get on this reno, the more I realize how good KBG spreads. Looking at your last photo it didn't look like you had a washout. We're almost near the finish line. I think this is the most exciting part of the reno where you just have to mow it, feed it and watch haw it gets better everyday.
> 
> By the way, your lawn is starting to look better than your neighbors.


The below gif worked. Heartbreaking but here we are now with beautiful lawns coming in. No looking back now!

Tough to say about those peat mounds. I'll know if the manual reel is jumping all over the place. From a distance the lawn looks relatively flat. Plus I'm not seeing insane wet, pooling of water areas which would mean we messed up the grading big time. I think all in all. Aerate/topdress every fall for a few years and we will be money.


----------



## bf7

Good points. You going to topdress with sand?


----------



## Zcape35

@bf7 that is the saddest GIF ever! haha
Jersey it looks like you are rocking and rolling for sure. The coverage is looking awesome!


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Good points. You going to topdress with sand?


Yessir. I'm getting into reel mowing so that will be a must next Fall until I get things just right. Don't think I'm going to do 2021 Late spring but we shall see.

Hopefully my topsoil doesn't settle too much over this winter/spring given I was rolling an asphalt roller on this yard for nearly 8 hours one weekend. Good times.



@wardconnor is going to love this one! Had lots of looky Lou's that weekend...


----------



## JerseyGreens

Thanks @Zcape35 - just trying to catch up to your awesome progress!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Me too, I have a messed up grading before and during seeding. Those storms that we had are really tough. Topdressing with sand will be my project next fall.


----------



## JerseyGreens

DASD: 41
DAG: 32

She got her first cut!

Mower: Kensington 20H
Fuel: AV100LL - if you know - you know baby!
First oil - Amsoil Full Synthetic small cycle engine 10W-30


----------



## OnTheLawn

Amazing! Looking incredible my friend, well done. That mower as well!!! Jealous... come spring we're going to have a LOTM contender here.


----------



## JerseyGreens

OnTheLawn said:


> Amazing! Looking incredible my friend, well done. That mower as well!!! Jealous... come spring we're going to have a LOTM contender here.


Thank you man! The reno class of 2020 has been awesome - we seriously need to get together in 2021.

I owe this progress to all of those mentors that helped me along the way - I found myself following instructions at crazy pathways with this reno...30 pages deep, tons of questions...and here we are.

Hope I made those mentors proud.

Yeah I know @g-man my stripes will get cleaner over time! :lol: Saying it before you say it!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Wow! That look fantastic!!


----------



## OnTheLawn

Yup, the mentors here who get involved help out so much. I owe @g-man a ton for getting my reno started a few weeks earlier than I initially planned. Immediately hopped into my journal and told me to get seed down sooner and thank goodness I took his advice.

Such a great community here! We've had quite a few Jersey renos this year so we should absolutely plan a get together and talk about all the stressful anxious moments we had along the way!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Thank you @shadowlawnjutsu!

@OnTheLawn I'm in for a local meet up. @bf7 should make the drive and come too. I keep thinking he's a Jersey guy to but forget he's from PA!


----------



## Zcape35

Lovin the stripes, there's just something about stripes on some sexy low turf haha


----------



## Lust4Lawn

So you went from having a landscaper to a Kennsington? Talk about jumping ahead! I've used your thread as a guide quite a bit along the way too. Everything looks like it came together nicely even after a rough start and someone Duke's of Hazard-ing your reno.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Lust4Lawn said:


> So you went from having a landscaper to a Kennsington? Talk about jumping ahead! I've used your thread as a guide quite a bit along the way too. Everything looks like it came together nicely even after a rough start and someone Duke's of Hazard-ing your reno.


Haha! Thank you!

I always cut my lawn at my last house. This one had too much yard and I didn't have a tractor. I'm reel mowing the Reno area and asking the landscaper for a significant discount for just cutting the back.

The kensington is an easy entry into reel mowing. Albeit an expensive investment. If I Reno the back next year...well then I'll have to start looking for a 1600.


----------



## bf7

Dude...that is a true work of art. Bare spots? POOF...gone!

That mower is a godsend. Never let it go.

I'm speechless. Incredible progress this week.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Dude...that is a true work of art. Bare spots? POOF...gone!
> 
> That mower is a godsend. Never let it go.
> 
> I'm speechless. Incredible progress this week.


Thanks man. Still tons of spreading for it to do but I was shocked once I stepped back and saw the lawn. Makes everything worth it.

Plan on keeping that mower for a very long time that's why I'm using overkill fuel and oil in it.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


>


Sweet! Isn't it amazing how when you back up and get the look that somebody else gets driving down the street, that it looks awesome?!



JerseyGreens said:


> She got her first cut!
> 
> Mower: Kensington 20H
> Fuel: AV100LL - if you know - you know baby!


Congrats on the first cut, and the new mower! Are you a private pilot in your free time (you may have had some of that before the lawn hobby, right?) or just going to the airport to get ethanol-free gas?


----------



## Zcape35

I'm using only premix fuel in mine, I think the cost is like $20 for just under a gallon but I don't wanna have any issues ever. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@ken-n-nancy such a great feeling. I think reel mowing will continue to get more popular in the states.

No pilot experience here - just have a small airport near me that has the fuel available to the general public. $5 a gallon but the mower barely goes through any when I use it. Plus it's awesome smelling a racecar track while mowing!

I know it has very low lead in the fumes but I'm not too worried about it...lots of folks on here use this fuel if available in their equipment. I believe @Ware does.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude...that is a true work of art. Bare spots? POOF...gone!
> 
> That mower is a godsend. Never let it go.
> 
> I'm speechless. Incredible progress this week.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks man. Still tons of spreading for it to do but I was shocked once I stepped back and saw the lawn. Makes everything worth it.
> 
> Plan on keeping that mower for a very long time that's why I'm using overkill fuel and oil in it.
Click to expand...

What was the height before and after cut?

I've never experienced the thrill of striping before, but I bought the Big League kit for my rotary mower a few weeks ago. You have me wanting to break it out early.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude...that is a true work of art. Bare spots? POOF...gone!
> 
> That mower is a godsend. Never let it go.
> 
> I'm speechless. Incredible progress this week.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks man. Still tons of spreading for it to do but I was shocked once I stepped back and saw the lawn. Makes everything worth it.
> 
> Plan on keeping that mower for a very long time that's why I'm using overkill fuel and oil in it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was the height before and after cut?
> 
> I've never experienced the thrill of striping before, but I bought the Big League kit for my rotary mower a few weeks ago. You have me wanting to break it out early.
Click to expand...

Mixed bag. Some 3 inches. Some 1 inch that didn't get touched.

It's 1.25 inch now. Yes I broke some of the 1/3 rule but it's going to be fine.

Get a cut in!


----------



## Biggylawns

that mower is looking sharp @JerseyGreens


----------



## JerseyGreens

Biggylawns said:


> that mower is looking sharp @JerseyGreens


Thanks - definitely built to last. Was honestly worried about that before I bought it but she's tough.

Where you moving to man?


----------



## KoopHawk

JerseyGreens said:


>


I didn't realize you lived next to a cow pasture. You domination line with your neighbor is going to be awesome.


----------



## JerseyGreens

KoopHawk said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't realize you lived next to a cow pasture. You domination line with your neighbor is going to be awesome.
Click to expand...

 :lol:

Really nice family though. I rented a Aerator from HD with them (only for my back and other side) and walked them through the process of overseeding a few weeks ago...I help where I can.


----------



## Alex1389

Looking really good @JerseyGreens! How are you liking the Allett? I like the way my turf looks with the JD220, but my back doesn't enjoy mowing with it.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Alex1389 said:


> Looking really good @JerseyGreens! How are you liking the Allett? I like the way my turf looks with the JD220, but my back doesn't enjoy mowing with it.


I absolutely love it.

Insanely easy to maneuver. I used the turf rake before mowing - got a lot of the leaves up, hickory nuts, sticks, etc. before mowing. Main reason why I got it was the cartridge system.

I do believe I'll end up with a 1600 at some point in my reel mowing life but this was a great, albeit, expensive start.


----------



## Di3soft

@JerseyGreens turf rake part of the Allet? or do you have one separate? I feel like I need something before reel mowing


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> @JerseyGreens turf rake part of the Allet? or do you have one separate? I feel like I need something before reel mowing


Turf rake part of the Allett - I'd highly recommend at least hand raking your yard before putting an expensive, sharp reel on it. Taking care of the reels start with a clean yard.


----------



## Di3soft

JerseyGreens said:


> Di3soft said:
> 
> 
> 
> @JerseyGreens turf rake part of the Allet? or do you have one separate? I feel like I need something before reel mowing
> 
> 
> 
> Turf rake part of the Allett - I'd highly recommend at least hand raking your yard before putting an expensive, sharp reel on it. Taking care of the reels start with a clean yard.
Click to expand...

Yea I make sure to walk it before mowing always, dont know if a turf rake will help with worm castings though, leafs arent an issue.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Di3soft said:
> 
> 
> 
> @JerseyGreens turf rake part of the Allet? or do you have one separate? I feel like I need something before reel mowing
> 
> 
> 
> Turf rake part of the Allett - I'd highly recommend at least hand raking your yard before putting an expensive, sharp reel on it. Taking care of the reels start with a clean yard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yea I make sure to walk it before mowing always, dont know if a turf rake will help with worm castings though, leafs arent an issue.
Click to expand...

They should honestly based on seeing this thing put in work. Yeah it ripped out some baby grass but very little (was on the highest setting). It was ripping out shallow weeds. Pretty cool.


----------



## Di3soft

wondering if I should just get the ego nylon brush attachment and if it would work well for what I want, but guessing I wouldn't want to use it until the grass is fully filled in.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> wondering if I should just get the ego nylon brush attachment and if it would work well for what I want, but guessing I wouldn't want to use it until the grass is fully filled in.


I have that. Works great on sidewalks. My driveway. Think it would be tough on grass. Now mature grass 2-3 years old. No problem.


----------



## gregonfire

Nice progress man! It's gonna look insane in the spring. Great job


----------



## Biggylawns

JerseyGreens said:


> Biggylawns said:
> 
> 
> 
> that mower is looking sharp @JerseyGreens
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks - definitely built to last. Was honestly worried about that before I bought it but she's tough.
> 
> Where you moving to man?
Click to expand...

Looking in the holmdel or colts neck area. Market is insane with everybody fleeing NYC so we pushed a move off until things calm down, which hopefully is early 2021. I'm sure your area is seeing a huge jump too.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Biggylawns said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biggylawns said:
> 
> 
> 
> that mower is looking sharp @JerseyGreens
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks - definitely built to last. Was honestly worried about that before I bought it but she's tough.
> 
> Where you moving to man?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking in the holmdel or colts neck area. Market is insane with everybody fleeing NYC so we pushed a move off until things calm down, which hopefully is early 2021. I'm sure your area is seeing a huge jump too.
Click to expand...

Great area to be living - both towns are nice.

Yeah houses won't be on the market for more than 7-10 days right now. Insane.


----------



## bf7

Put down your Tenacity yet?


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Put down your Tenacity yet?


Nope, not yet.

Most likely tomorrow. Want to do it on a warmer day.

How about yourself?


----------



## bf7

Not yet. Waiting a few more days just to get the re-seeds to around 28 days old.

The weeds have died down quite a bit. Guessing it was the colder weather.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Not yet. Waiting a few more days just to get the re-seeds to around 28 days old.
> 
> The weeds have died down quite a bit. Guessing it was the colder weather.


I'm with you. The weeds and grass really slowed down the past 7-10 days. I haven't even put down extra N for awhile. It's just cruising. Not pushing it.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Too soon?

Thinking about swapping out my Honda engine on the Allett in the off season.

Has a 120gx on it...needs a 160gx to be honest. Hmm. Would love some input from my reel low family watching this!

Before people ask - it's a bit sluggish right now. Could use the extra HP & torque.


----------



## JerseyGreens

The amazing spreading ability of KBG...I'm sold - probably going to reno the backyard and right side yard with KBG next fall.

9/25 Overhead Pictures:







10/6:







I'm going to take the front roller off the Allett on my next cut and use the high wheel kit - the baby grass gets pushed down by the front and doesn't get back up before the reel hits it.

Overall I'm very happy with this wild Reno!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Those bare spots are filling in nicely. What's your HOC? And how often do you mow?


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> The amazing spreading ability of KBG...I'm sold - probably going to reno the backyard and right side yard with KBG next fall.
> 
> 9/25 Overhead Pictures:
> 
> 
> 10/6:
> 
> 
> Overall I'm very happy with this wild Reno!


Looking great! Some good comparison photos of establishment showing the rapid increase in density that happens with KBG after "sprout and pout" finally ends.

However, I just want to mention that the "spreading" we are seeing in our KBG renovations at this point is, I think, largely the tillering and expansion of each individual seedling which started out as a single blade of grass around Day 5-14, now turning into a little clump of grass with maybe as many as 20-30 blades and expanding in size to maybe the diameter of an apple.

The "real spreading" of KBG by rhizomes being sent out from parent plants to form whole new plants is something that doesn't really happen in significant amounts until the grass is quite a bit more mature, such as next spring. Spreading by rhizomes is what will close up bare spots in an established lawn - typically bare areas the size of a dinner plate will look reasonably filled-in after one additional growing season (spring or fall) with spring being the time of most rhizome growth and development.

I think what we're seeing now isn't really the "spreading" (via rhizomes) that is characteristic of KBG, but the tillering and filling in that happens with any adolescent cool season grass.

What's really cool about KBG, though, is once "sprout and pout" ends, a renovation that appeared stalled and seemed like it wasn't going anywhere suddenly takes off and begins to look like a lawn! It's a great feeling!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

That means we haven't seen the best of it yet. Excited to see more growth in spring!


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Those bare spots are filling in nicely. What's your HOC? And how often do you mow?


1.25inch per the ruler test but for sure I know it's not cutting it evenly.

Put the high wheel assembly on today / front heavy roller off. Should get a much better cut tomorrow.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Thank you @ken-n-nancy - you are truly a great teacher. It's easy just to feed us...but your teaching us how to hunt and I love it!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Threw down the open bag of CX STRT I had laying around...my wife had enough of the garage smelling like crap!

That's the last of any slow release I'll be throwing down. Warm, sunny day - hoping a good amount of it melts into the soil.

Still debating on the Tenacity...don't see much weed pressure at the moment.


----------



## Lust4Lawn

JerseyGreens said:


> Still debating on the Tenacity...don't see much weed pressure at the moment.


I'm in the same boat. I'm a little behind your DAG but I'm thinking maybe around 45 DAG.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Lust4Lawn said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still debating on the Tenacity...don't see much weed pressure at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in the same boat. I'm a little behind your DAG but I'm thinking maybe around 45 DAG.
Click to expand...

I did my 2nd app of tenacity because I had a lot of weed pressure on the areas where I used straw. Now it looks like it's been taken care of. I don't see a lot of weed pressure. But also, I'm thinking of doing a third app and that's because I don't want to give the winter weeds a window to germinate. My only worry is that when I do a third app, which is probably on 10/18, it might not have enough time to recover. My Prodiamine schedule is on 10/27 so that's 9 days without protection if I don't spray Tenacity.


----------



## OnTheLawn

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Lust4Lawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still debating on the Tenacity...don't see much weed pressure at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in the same boat. I'm a little behind your DAG but I'm thinking maybe around 45 DAG.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did my 2nd app of tenacity because I had a lot of weed pressure on the areas where I used straw. Now it looks like it's been taken care of. I don't see a lot of weed pressure. But also, I'm thinking of doing a third app and that's because I don't want to give the winter weeds a window to germinate. My only worry is that when I do a third app, which is probably on 10/18, it might not have enough time to recover. My Prodiamine schedule is on 10/27 so that's 9 days without protection if I don't spray Tenacity.
Click to expand...

Don't overthink it. Priority will be getting prodiamine down ASAP, 60 DAG. I wouldn't bother with another blanket app of tenacity. Instead I would wait through that nine days, put down your prodiamine, and then wait to see what comes up that snuck through. If anything does come up, spot spray with post emergent tank mix including tenacity.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

OnTheLawn said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lust4Lawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in the same boat. I'm a little behind your DAG but I'm thinking maybe around 45 DAG.
> 
> 
> 
> I did my 2nd app of tenacity because I had a lot of weed pressure on the areas where I used straw. Now it looks like it's been taken care of. I don't see a lot of weed pressure. But also, I'm thinking of doing a third app and that's because I don't want to give the winter weeds a window to germinate. My only worry is that when I do a third app, which is probably on 10/18, it might not have enough time to recover. My Prodiamine schedule is on 10/27 so that's 9 days without protection if I don't spray Tenacity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't overthink it. Priority will be getting prodiamine down ASAP, 60 DAG. I wouldn't bother with another blanket app of tenacity. Instead I would wait through that nine days, put down your prodiamine, and then wait to see what comes up that snuck through. If anything does come up, spot spray with post emergent tank mix including tenacity.
Click to expand...

Looks like that's what I would do. Asked the same question to @g-man and he said that I should just wait. So I'll just wait for the Prodiamine schedule.


----------



## bf7

@JerseyGreens are you also skipping next Tenacity app and going straight to prodiamine?

That sounds like a safer route for the KBG, but ideally I'd like to get something down that has post-em properties to highlight the bad stuff. Any harm in doing Tenacity and then prodiamine say, 2-3 weeks later?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Yes I'm skipping and just doing Prodiamine at 60 DAG.

Going to apply Azoxy+prop tomorrow for good order.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Found some good sod to spread into bare areas. Finally got to edging.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> Found some good sod to spread into bare areas. Finally got to edging.


Nice!

Actually, with the soil being a bit above the pavement, you are going to find that KBG continually trying to escape from the lawn and extend into the sidewalk...

A nice problem to have, though!


----------



## JerseyGreens

ken-n-nancy said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Found some good sod to spread into bare areas. Finally got to edging.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice!
> 
> Actually, with the soil being a bit above the pavement, you are going to find that KBG continually trying to escape from the lawn and extend into the sidewalk...
> 
> A nice problem to have, though!
Click to expand...

Your telling me I have my own mini Sod factory? That is awesome!


----------



## SumBeach35

JerseyGreens said:


> Found some good sod to spread into bare areas. Finally got to edging.


I did the exact same thing after i edged last weekend.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Put down 2oz per K Propi and 0.75oz per K Azoxy.

Have fungus issued bleeding into the reno. It's not bad but widespread. Could be older growth that I'm seeing after cutting lower but still not taking chances.


----------



## Collywood

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> I did my 2nd app of tenacity because I had a lot of weed pressure on the areas where I used straw. Now it looks like it's been taken care of. I don't see a lot of weed pressure. But also, I'm thinking of doing a third app and that's because I don't want to give the winter weeds a window to germinate. My only worry is that when I do a third app, which is probably on 10/18, *it might not have enough time to recover*. My Prodiamine schedule is on 10/27 so that's 9 days without protection if I don't spray Tenacity.


Can you plz elaborate on what I've bolded in your comment? I was planning on applying tenacity when I apply prodiamine, separately for foliar vs soil application, and wasn't too concerned with overapplication since I'd use a low dose of Prodiamine with not much growing season left here.

Are you implying it's bad to apply tenacity later in the season as the KBG won't have enough time to recover if it's bleached a bit? My understanding was the bleaching was purely cosmetic, but if it's actually slight damage that it usually recovers from when growing strong then I think I should skip tenacity as well. Thanks!


----------



## bf7

I think I'm going to skip blanket Tenacity too. However taking happy medium and going to spot spray what I can see. The weeds are concentrated in certain spots.

Any pics of the fungus?


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Collywood said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did my 2nd app of tenacity because I had a lot of weed pressure on the areas where I used straw. Now it looks like it's been taken care of. I don't see a lot of weed pressure. But also, I'm thinking of doing a third app and that's because I don't want to give the winter weeds a window to germinate. My only worry is that when I do a third app, which is probably on 10/18, *it might not have enough time to recover*. My Prodiamine schedule is on 10/27 so that's 9 days without protection if I don't spray Tenacity.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you plz elaborate on what I've bolded in your comment? I was planning on applying tenacity when I apply prodiamine, separately for foliar vs soil application, and wasn't too concerned with overapplication since I'd use a low dose of Prodiamine with not much growing season left here.
> 
> Are you implying it's bad to apply tenacity later in the season as the KBG won't have enough time to recover if it's bleached a bit? My understanding was the bleaching was purely cosmetic, but if it's actually slight damage that it usually recovers from when growing strong then I think I should skip tenacity as well. Thanks!
Click to expand...

I'm just thinking that if the grass was bleached, it will not have enough time to grow and push the bleached blade out since it's already getting colder. I still have some bleached area from tenacity until now. That's from the tenacity I applied on 9/18.


----------



## SumBeach35

If you have already mowed a handful of times. Just spray it with a three way herbicide and be done with it.

I also say skip the tenacity.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> I think I'm going to skip blanket Tenacity too. However taking happy medium and going to spot spray what I can see. The weeds are concentrated in certain spots.
> 
> Any pics of the fungus?


Here is a picture.

One of my neighbors a few houses down said he's noticed insect damage to his lawn.

Not sure what this is - I was thinking fungus.


----------



## bf7

It's so hard to diagnose stuff. Too much water, too little water, under-fertilize, over-fertilize, grubs, dog pee - most of it looks the same to me. Hopefully someone can help pinpoint it.

If I had to guess, maybe the N burn like I think I have. Are you still putting down 0.5 lb/k per week? Hard to believe you would have gotten fungus with the decrease in water and colder temps.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> It's so hard to diagnose stuff. Too much water, too little water, under-fertilize, over-fertilize, grubs, dog pee - most of it looks the same to me. Hopefully someone can help pinpoint it.
> 
> If I had to guess, maybe the N burn like I think I have. Are you still putting down 0.5 lb/k per week? Hard to believe you would have gotten fungus with the decrease in water and colder temps.


Thanks for looking!

It's looking like the same yellow that it got when it was under-fertilized. I slowed down the N big time as temps dipped. I'll pick it back up to 0.25lbs N per K weekly.

If it was fungus then that will be stopped dead in it's tracks from my azoxy+propi app.

N and cutting until the clippings stop now...maybe Air8+RGS on a warm day. Maybe.


----------



## JerseyGreens

DASD: 54
DAG: 45

Mowed at 1 inch. I'm addicted.









The turf has an overall fungus type look to it. Got a close up shot too. Can anyone identify this please?

@ken-n-nancy @g-man @Harts

There are thousands of crane flies in my neighborhood right now and also around my lawn. Could they have ravaged the lawn this quickly?

I put Azoxy+Propi this weekend so nothing more I can do on that front. I water maybe once a week during N apps.

Please let me know your thoughts guys!

I have the dethatcher cartridge on my Allett - I have no issues ripping that through some of those dead/diseased blades. I see plenty of healthy growth around the yellow stuff.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> The turf has an overall fungus type look to it. Got a close up shot too. Can anyone identify this please?


Yes, that looks to me that there could be some fungus in there. I'm horrible at ID'ing specific types. Also, in the photo I have quoted above, there is an area near the upper right side that looks like it's either really wet soil, or some white fuzzy stuff, or ??? What's going on in that area? Have you had a lot of rain recently? Could this be new fungus due to very wet conditions?



JerseyGreens said:


> There are thousands of crane flies in my neighborhood right now and also around my lawn. Could they have ravaged the lawn this quickly?


I haven't experienced any problems with crane flies, so they're out of my area of knowledge.



JerseyGreens said:


> I put Azoxy+Propi this weekend so nothing more I can do on that front. I water maybe once a week during N apps.


If you've already applied Azoxy+Propi, then that should take care of any fungal issues, if accompanied with proper cultural practices. Avoid excess water, don't overdo it on fertilization,

I presume you already know this, but fungicide won't cure damaged grass blades. Once the blades are damaged, they will still that way until the grass grows enough for the damaged portions to be cut off.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Thank you @ken-n-nancy. We got about 1.25 inches of rain recently so definitely wet conditions.

They upper right area in that one picture is just an open sandy topsoil area with just a few seedlings growing in it.

I'll take the dethatcher cartridge and carefully go over the Reno area to get some of this diseased stuff out.

Goes to show you that the nights getting are cool but daytime temps near 70 can still grow fungus.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> Thank you @ken-n-nancy. We got about 1.25 inches of rain recently so definitely wet conditions.
> 
> They upper right area in that one picture is just an open sandy topsoil area with just a few seedlings growing in it.


OK. It almost seemed like there might be reflections there from standing water (a mini-puddle), which is always a sign of too wet.



JerseyGreens said:


> Goes to show you that the nights getting cool but daytime temps near 70 can still grow fungus.


Even if it is cool, too wet is hardly ever good from a fungal perspective. It seems that no matter what the temperature is, there's some sort of fungus that will thrive. One of our scourges up here is "snow mold" which loves the wet, wet conditions in the spring under melting snow -- right at about 32F - 35F. There are surely some fungi that prefer the 45F-60F conditions, too.


----------



## bf7

Stripes are sick! Getting real dense. I think 7/8 - 1 inch is the sweet spot.

Watch to see if the fungus gets more purple or pink. Red thread and pink patch do better in cooler conditions. I get it all the time.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Stripes are sick! Getting real dense. I think 7/8 - 1 inch is the sweet spot.
> 
> Watch to see if the fungus gets more purple or pink. Red thread and pink patch do better in cooler conditions. I get it all the time.


From a distance it looks amazing - still have to learn how to make straight stripes haha.

I just notice the fungus because we've literally been spoonfeeding these babies for 2 months. Also I think cutting under the hood aka this low has possibly exposed stuff that could have been there for Lord knows how long. The majority of yellowing/dying is on very thin blades which could mean it's a lot older.

I'm excited to give the scarifier cartridge a shot tomorrow. If I see too much good grass coming out then I'll kill it right away.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

First of all, I envy those stripes!! It looks amazing. It'll only get better as your grass matures.

I also have some of those fungus but it's not widespread. It is only visible when you look close enough. I think that's because of the rain. I put down azoxy last saturday before we got a lot of downpour. I'm planning to put down propi on saturday. Probably my last app. Not too worried about the fungus. We did what we can to protect our grass.


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> First of all, I envy those stripes!! It looks amazing. It'll only get better as your grass matures.
> 
> I also have some of those fungus but it's not widespread. It is only visible when you look close enough. I think that's because of the rain. I put down azoxy last saturday before we got a lot of downpour. I'm planning to put down propi on saturday. Probably my last app. Not too worried about the fungus. We did what we can to protect our grass.


Agreed - and at this point I know there are enough plants in my lawn that if some get a bug and die off the rest will make up for it.

It actually looks a lot better this morning which means that the fungus was most likely stopped dead in it's tracks after my fungi application this past weekend.

I'll hit it with a little N later (once the morning Dew dries off) to help it along.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Not surprised by the fungus.

The change of the sun angle has caused a decent amount of my reno to be shaded most of the day.

Those sections are still crazy wet due to the morning dew - any advice? I can go out with my blower every morning to help speed it along if that's the case.



I want to put down granular AMS but I'm afraid it's just going to stick to all the wet blades and burn them.


----------



## Di3soft

@JerseyGreens Im not sure your of your temp but the dew usually dries up by noon for me,also is there a reason you cant spray AMS? then water it in a little while later


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> @JerseyGreens Im not sure your of your temp but the dew usually dries up by noon for me,also is there a reason you cant spray AMS? then water it in a little while later


Honestly have never sprayed N to be honest. I guess that's a good idea at this point!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> @JerseyGreens Im not sure your of your temp but the dew usually dries up by noon for me,also is there a reason you cant spray AMS? then water it in a little while later


For simplicities sake for me to get 0.25 Lbs N per K I have to apply 7.7lbs of AMS.

I basically use the same 7.7Lbs but melt it into my carrier - which will only be 4.5 G up to the very top of my backpack sprayer? Comes out to .7G per K.

Water in immediately?

Thanks!


----------



## bf7

To get my 0.25 lbs N/k using urea, I fill up a 5 gallon bucket about halfway with warm water, drop in 5 lbs of urea granules, and stir - dissolves in minutes.

It takes 3 backpacks to spray my whole yard evenly. So I just divide the liquid in the bucket into thirds and fill up the backpack each time with however much additional water is needed to fill it. Shake it up and spray away.

I water immediately.


----------



## Di3soft

I leave n over night when I spray

And I would aim for 1 G water so you may need to fill it twice


----------



## JerseyGreens

Well OK then - I have a project for next Thursday's N App - thanks gents!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Just threw down 0.25 lbs N per K via granular AMS. Watered in...it's windy so I hope all glass blades dry before night.

Going to try liquid next week.


----------



## KoopHawk

JerseyGreens said:


> Di3soft said:
> 
> 
> 
> @JerseyGreens Im not sure your of your temp but the dew usually dries up by noon for me,also is there a reason you cant spray AMS? then water it in a little while later
> 
> 
> 
> For simplicities sake for me to get 0.25 Lbs N per K I have to apply 7.7lbs of AMS.
> 
> I basically use the same 7.7Lbs but melt it into my carrier - which will only be 4.5 G up to the very top of my backpack sprayer? Comes out to .7G per K.
> 
> Water in immediately?
> 
> Thanks!
Click to expand...

The foliar uptake of the N severely plateaus between 3 and 4 hours after application. IIRC I think something like 80% is absorbed at the 4 hour mark and not much more happens after that. At such low rates of N the burn chance should be minimal. I wait at least 3 hours before watering. I've also waited till the next morning before watering. I use Urea with 1 ga carrier tho.


----------



## JerseyGreens

DAG: 47

Brought her down to 3/4 inch. Jumping around a little due to grading and no front roller. Not bad though.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Not bad at all! Great looking stripes. Show us some crisscross pattern next time!


----------



## OnTheLawn

Looking great brotha! Those stripes are real for real. Coverage looks incredible too, filling in nicely after all the washout craziness.


----------



## bf7

Nice! The Bluebank still stripes great at 3/4". Maybe it's that mower. 8 blade? Great cut.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@shadowlawnjutsu thanks man! Trying to burn in the long ones before trying anything crazy. Definitely going criss cross before the season is over!

@OnTheLawn thanks bro! Yup. I still have patchy areas but nothing that a proplugger and Spring won't fix.

@bf7 thanks pal! Def stripes very good. It's a 6 blade actually. I am liking the Allett a lot. High quality machine. I can't wait to put the front roller back on.


----------



## Zcape35

Looks like you are starting to have fun! Boy these Reno's are stressful, I can't wait til the end of next Spring to see what all our lawns look like.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Put down another dose of 0.25 lbs N per K...this lawn is HUNGRY! That decomp level of my old grass/thatch is really taking N away from my babies.

I can't wait for the day when that Fungi/Bacteria/organic N gives back more some 2-3 inches down. Basically building a layer of fertile gold.

Also dropped 15 lbs of Lime per K via Cal-Turf - stuff isn't cheap when it comes to lime but I like that it's coated in humates. Stuff smelled just as bad as CX products (good sign).

Have to hit a total of ~60 lbs of Lime per K...decided on getting there slowly (18-24 months) instead of sprinting to that goal.


----------



## JerseyGreens

DAG: 51

The more mature the blades get the better they look color wise. It's funny that my re-seed in bare spots has a darker green look as those seedlings matured quicker, built up more leaf structure and are capable of pulling up more nutrients since they have space to be free. I definitely have some overcrowding in this Reno but hope it all works out.



In dire need of a mow...hope it dries out for one later this afternoon.


----------



## bf7

Definitely darkening up! Are you still planning prodiamine at 60 DAG?


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Definitely darkening up! Are you still planning prodiamine at 60 DAG?


I think so. The soil is plenty warm right now for it to get into it.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Now I'm starting to play around with my machine. Put the front roller back on. Blades are fairly mature now.





Had one looky lou pull over and ask about my Allett and another jogger give me two thumbs up!


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely darkening up! Are you still planning prodiamine at 60 DAG?
> 
> 
> 
> I think so. The soil is plenty warm right now for it to get into it.
Click to expand...

Man those are some killer double wide stripes! Color is looking so nice. Those N apps are doing wonders.

I might go earlier than 60 DAG. I think the label says 60 days after seed or second mow so I'm guessing most people just layer in the extra time as a hedge. You'll probably be fine waiting but the weed pressure in my yard is alarming right now.


----------



## bf7

Also I feel like we are the only people updating our journals. Need to hear from all the reno'ers!


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Also I feel like we are the only people updating our journals. Need to hear from all the reno'ers!


I think a lot of our crew is getting ready to hibernate over Winter.

I'm still getting substantial clippings every 2-3 days from a Mow although I can see things slowing down in ~2 weeks.

I don't know if I got lucky or the heavy Tenacity at seed down...knock on wood...after that crabgrass died out from those first cool nights I haven't gotten much weed pressure.

What rate of Prodiamine are you going with?


----------



## bf7

Such a shame. Now seems to be the best time for glamour shots.

Not sure yet. Maybe the 4 month rate. What about you?

When are you planning your last N feeding?


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Such a shame. Now seems to be the best time for glamour shots.
> 
> Not sure yet. Maybe the 4 month rate. What about you?
> 
> When are you planning your last N feeding?


3 month rate on the Prodiamine. I think 0.5oz/Acre.

Last N app will be at my average annual frost date per @ken-n-nancy advice. I think it will end up being halloween-ish.


----------



## bf7

Well shoot, my average first frost is 10/11 - 10/20.

I really want to squeeze in one more feeding. I've dropped 1.6 lbs N/1k total this fall (I think less than ideal) and we've been super warm this week. We did have a freeze on 10/17 though.


----------



## psider25

bf7 said:


> Well shoot, my average first frost is 10/11 - 10/20.
> 
> I really want to squeeze in one more feeding. I've dropped 1.6 lbs N/1k total this fall (I think less than ideal) and we've been super warm this week. We did have a freeze on 10/17 though.


Are you all considering putting down a "winterizer" app of N this year (_after grass stops growing but before ground is frozen hard_) to make up for not getting as much N down as you hoped. I definitely did not get as much N down as I hoped due to late start. Also I kind of think the large rain events washed some of the N from starter fert that did get down deeper than the seedling grass roots? I never understood if the same thing could happen with a winterizer app of N --> get washed down into the soil deeper than the grass roots by the time spring comes.


----------



## JerseyGreens

psider25 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well shoot, my average first frost is 10/11 - 10/20.
> 
> I really want to squeeze in one more feeding. I've dropped 1.6 lbs N/1k total this fall (I think less than ideal) and we've been super warm this week. We did have a freeze on 10/17 though.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you all considering putting down a "winterizer" app of N this year (_after grass stops growing but before ground is frozen hard_) to make up for not getting as much N down as you hoped. I definitely did not get as much N down as I hoped due to late start. Also I kind of think the large rain events washed some of the N from starter fert that did get down deeper than the seedling grass roots? I never understood if the same thing could happen with a winterizer app of N --> get washed down into the soil deeper than the grass roots by the time spring comes.
Click to expand...

I definitely won't be doing that since I'll be getting a shot of N from the decomposition of my old grass/roots/thatch 2-3 inches underground.

KBG loves N but I wouldn't push it too much at all once you stop getting clippings. Let it harden, "sleep" for the winter without being confused. Strictly my thoughts that's all.


----------



## bf7

psider25 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well shoot, my average first frost is 10/11 - 10/20.
> 
> I really want to squeeze in one more feeding. I've dropped 1.6 lbs N/1k total this fall (I think less than ideal) and we've been super warm this week. We did have a freeze on 10/17 though.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you all considering putting down a "winterizer" app of N this year (_after grass stops growing but before ground is frozen hard_) to make up for not getting as much N down as you hoped. I definitely did not get as much N down as I hoped due to late start. Also I kind of think the large rain events washed some of the N from starter fert that did get down deeper than the seedling grass roots? I never understood if the same thing could happen with a winterizer app of N --> get washed down into the soil deeper than the grass roots by the time spring comes.
Click to expand...

I won't be doing a winterizer either. I'll probably do one more feeding in a few days and put the sprayer down. The grass is still growing fairly vigorously now but the forecast is calling for a major chill down.

The way I see it, as long as we start early (Aug seed down), start feeding as soon as the grass is ready (around end of pout), and keep a consistent spoon regimen until the grass slows, pretty hard not to have success. If you ask most people on here, I think they would tell you that is a good recipe and the winterizer app is of less importance.

How much total N did you get down @psider25?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Just tossed a football around with some friends.

They were baffled by the lawn. Said it's basically turf.


----------



## JerseyGreens

DAG: 54

Color continues to impress. Things might be slowing down but mine is already above 1.25 inches in many spots. Just keeps on growing! Mow tomorrow.

I might mess around with a criss-cross pattern if the sun comes out and helps me see the stripes.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Still getting lots of clipping. Its getting colder out but this isn't letting up.

Dropped possibly my last 0.25 Lbs of N per K today.



Fatties on a diagonal.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Question to those reel mowing in colder temps.

When do wrap up the season with watering? From my understanding low mowed grass requires more water - does that hold true when it gets colder out?
What HOC do you wrap the season up at?

@g-man - should be my last question for the season! (I know you reel mow in colder temps). Thanks!


----------



## psider25

JerseyGreens said:


> Question to those reel mowing in colder temps.
> 
> When do wrap up the season with watering? From my understanding low mowed grass requires more water - does that hold true when it gets colder out?
> What HOC do you wrap the season up at?
> 
> @g-man - should be my last question for the season! (I know you reel mow in colder temps). Thanks!


Very interested as well. Need to schedule a date to get someone to bring out one of those giant compressors to blow out my irrigation. Supposed to get down to 29 here tonight (maybe flurries in the AM  )but the long term forecast shows lows remaining above freezing


----------



## g-man

Did you read this ET and irrigation guide ?

I keep my last HOC at the same as fall.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> Did you read this ET and irrigation guide ?
> 
> I keep my last HOC at the same as fall.


No I didn't but after a quick read that blew my mind. I'll have read it in depth later today.

Thanks on the HOC. I'll keep that the same. Just curious when do you winterize your system?


----------



## g-man

Irrigation system? I did last week. It was nice weather day so I blew it. It is in my journal.


----------



## JerseyGreens

If today was my last N app then I totaled 1.75 Lbs N per K over the past 6-7 weeks.

For the experienced reno-ers is this a good target/goal for the start?

I'm probably done throwing anymore down as it's getting colder out.


----------



## uts

JerseyGreens said:


> If today was my last N app then I totaled 1.75 Lbs N per K over the past 6-7 weeks.
> 
> For the experienced reno-ers is this a good target/goal for the start?
> 
> I'm probably done throwing anymore down as it's getting colder out.


I think keeping in mind the spoon feeding of 0.25lbs/M, you fed 7 times which corresponds well to your reno. Maybe you did slight li y heavier apps.

I think next spring is going to be key where you will be pushing N much more than this year. Considering you are irrigated you could probably push the grass all season to fill and thicken up in any area that might be needed.


----------



## JerseyGreens

uts said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> If today was my last N app then I totaled 1.75 Lbs N per K over the past 6-7 weeks.
> 
> For the experienced reno-ers is this a good target/goal for the start?
> 
> I'm probably done throwing anymore down as it's getting colder out.
> 
> 
> 
> I think keeping in mind the spoon feeding of 0.25lbs/M, you fed 7 times which corresponds well to your reno. Maybe you did slight li y heavier apps.
> 
> I think next spring is going to be key where you will be pushing N much more than this year. Considering you are irrigated you could probably push the grass all season to fill and thicken up in any area that might be needed.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the confirmation. No more N for me this Fall.

Good point on the filling in - I was going to plug some thin spots from thicker areas but I may not even do that any more as a lot is filling in.

I know rhizomatic activity doesn't usually start until the Spring after but I'm seeing things fill in that aren't from just tillering!


----------



## bf7

uts said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> If today was my last N app then I totaled 1.75 Lbs N per K over the past 6-7 weeks.
> 
> For the experienced reno-ers is this a good target/goal for the start?
> 
> I'm probably done throwing anymore down as it's getting colder out.
> 
> 
> 
> I think keeping in mind the spoon feeding of 0.25lbs/M, you fed 7 times which corresponds well to your reno. Maybe you did slight li y heavier apps.
> 
> I think next spring is going to be key where you will be pushing N much more than this year. Considering you are irrigated you could probably push the grass all season to fill and thicken up in any area that might be needed.
Click to expand...

Should we really be putting down more N in the spring than in the fall? I've been trying to do a fall N blitz, obviously on a lesser scale than I would on mature grass, but expecting the need for N to decease in the spring. I thought the seedlings would store the nutrients over the winter to be used in the spring. Is this a "one off" situation for renos? I'm just a noob trying to learn.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@bf7 oh yea buddy from the reno journals I've followed you have to push N hard with other macro/micro nutrients come Spring and next Fall for it to thicken up.

KBG drinks N like kool aid. Downfall is we may be mowing every other day this Spring/summer.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> @bf7 oh yea buddy from the reno journals I've followed you have to push N hard with other macro/micro nutrients come Spring and next Fall for it to thicken up.
> 
> KBG drinks N like kool aid. Downfall is we may be mowing every other day this Spring/summer.


Wow I'm glad I asked. Good to know. Are you planning to do more fast or slow release in the spring?

I already ordered my first jug of t-nex for next year. As much as I love mowing every 2 days, my wife despises it. But I can't give up the sub 1 inch HOC, especially after investing in a reel mower. Hoping I can get away with around 2 mowings a week with the PGR.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> @bf7 oh yea buddy from the reno journals I've followed you have to push N hard with other macro/micro nutrients come Spring and next Fall for it to thicken up.
> 
> KBG drinks N like kool aid. Downfall is we may be mowing every other day this Spring/summer.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow I'm glad I asked. Good to know. Are you planning to do more fast or slow release in the spring?
> 
> I already ordered my first jug of t-nex for next year. As much as I love mowing every 2 days, my wife despises it. But I can't give up the sub 1 inch HOC, especially after investing in a reel mower. Hoping I can get away with around 2 mowings a week with the PGR.
Click to expand...

Combination of both. CX products and fast release.

I'm on the PGR train as well. 2 mowings a week would be perfect.


----------



## Di3soft

So I used t-nex once this year on the reno and can safely say that 2 mowing a week is very doable. even when cutting twice a week I was getting tiny clippings, I havent cut in 9 days because of the weather and most likely wont be able to for another few days. Ill report back on how much it chops off when I am able to mow.


----------



## uts

bf7 said:


> uts said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> If today was my last N app then I totaled 1.75 Lbs N per K over the past 6-7 weeks.
> 
> For the experienced reno-ers is this a good target/goal for the start?
> 
> I'm probably done throwing anymore down as it's getting colder out.
> 
> 
> 
> I think keeping in mind the spoon feeding of 0.25lbs/M, you fed 7 times which corresponds well to your reno. Maybe you did slight li y heavier apps.
> 
> I think next spring is going to be key where you will be pushing N much more than this year. Considering you are irrigated you could probably push the grass all season to fill and thicken up in any area that might be needed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Should we really be putting down more N in the spring than in the fall? I've been trying to do a fall N blitz, obviously on a lesser scale than I would on mature grass, but expecting the need for N to decease in the spring. I thought the seedlings would store the nutrients over the winter to be used in the spring. Is this a "one off" situation for renos? I'm just a noob trying to learn.
Click to expand...

I will start of by saying that most of what I am writing right now is based on the reno journals that I have been reading multiple times such as Pete1313. When I was looking through my notes, I saw he put down 1.2 or 1.4lbs of N at seed down and another 6 x 0.4lbs (approx 0.35-0.45) of N that season = 3.6lbs just in the fall. I think there was also a winterizer app of 0.75lbs of N.

The following season I saw he put down 4.5lbs of N for the season.

I have seen other journals where people have used almost 6lbs of N for the season following the reno depending on how much you want to push, well divided between spring and fall. The spring was usually the same spoon feeding for 6 weeks or so puts you around 2-3 pounds of N and the rest in the fall. You can also put down some organic/slow release in the summer if you have irrigation.

Also note that the amount of N also defers depending on how much you spray vs granular. Foliar is more effective and I think therefore I have seen less used in some journals where as only granular was higher. That said urea is about 20 bucks for a 50lb bag so not a big deal.

Hope this helps.


----------



## JerseyGreens

uts said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uts said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think keeping in mind the spoon feeding of 0.25lbs/M, you fed 7 times which corresponds well to your reno. Maybe you did slight li y heavier apps.
> 
> I think next spring is going to be key where you will be pushing N much more than this year. Considering you are irrigated you could probably push the grass all season to fill and thicken up in any area that might be needed.
> 
> 
> 
> Should we really be putting down more N in the spring than in the fall? I've been trying to do a fall N blitz, obviously on a lesser scale than I would on mature grass, but expecting the need for N to decease in the spring. I thought the seedlings would store the nutrients over the winter to be used in the spring. Is this a "one off" situation for renos? I'm just a noob trying to learn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will start of by saying that most of what I am writing right now is based on the reno journals that I have been reading multiple times such as Pete1313. When I was looking through my notes, I saw he put down 1.2 or 1.4lbs of N at seed down and another 6 x 0.4lbs (approx 0.35-0.45) of N that season = 3.6lbs just in the fall. I think there was also a winterizer app of 0.75lbs of N.
> 
> The following season I saw he put down 4.5lbs of N for the season.
> 
> I have seen other journals where people have used almost 6lbs of N for the season following the reno depending on how much you want to push, well divided between spring and fall. The spring was usually the same spoon feeding for 6 weeks or so puts you around 2-3 pounds of N and the rest in the fall. You can also put down some organic/slow release in the summer if you have irrigation.
> 
> Also note that the amount of N also defers depending on how much you spray vs granular. Foliar is more effective and I think therefore I have seen less used in some journals where as only granular was higher. That said urea is about 20 bucks for a 50lb bag so not a big deal.
> 
> Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Wow...my targets are bullish for next year but not that high. Some of our mentors this year did ask us not to push it so much in the beginning and a lot of folks said pass on any starter fert at seed down.

All things being equal, I'm more than satisfied with my lawn right now at the N levels I put down.

Next Spring will be a completely different story though as I have some bare spots.


----------



## bf7

Interesting. That is a lot of N.

We'll have to regroup on here come spring time to share strategies. I need to chill out for now.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

bf7 said:


> Should we really be putting down more N in the spring than in the fall? I've been trying to do a fall N blitz, obviously on a lesser scale than I would on mature grass, but expecting the need for N to decease in the spring. I thought the seedlings would store the nutrients over the winter to be used in the spring. Is this a "one off" situation for renos? I'm just a noob trying to learn.


I would mention that I would be wary of putting down too much N in the spring. I've had trouble in the past with too much N in the spring leading to fungus trouble in the summer. There's a balance to be had between pushing growth and avoiding fungus.

I had never seen any fungus problems in our lawn until the summer after our side lawn 2015 Bewitched KBG renovation. That seed-down date was too late, so the lawn was very sparse getting through winter. To really encourage spreading in the spring, I applied regular helpings of Bay State Fertilizer (Boston's Milorganite) right through into the summer. Spring comes late here -- first mowable growth wasn't until 9 May 2016. As soon as I saw any growth, I started with the fertilizer, applying 2.1#N/ksqft in May, 2.3#N/ksqft in June, and another 0.6#N/ksqft in July. The grass loved it and filled in great. I've posted photos in other threads, but the establishment from very sparse at the beginning of May to a lawn by the middle of July, was quite impressive. However, it came to a bad end....

Being completely unprepared for fungus, I had a real fungal issue by late July. I ended up nearly losing the entire monostand. In hindsight, I think I should have been more reserved on the heavy nitrogen in the spring.

In our 2018 Front Lawn Bewitched & Prosperity KBG Renovation, I seeded earlier and thus had time to get more N down in the fall (1.7#N/ksqft) and then was very light with fertilizer in the spring. (1.1#N/ksqft in May, 0.7#N/ksqft in June, and then no more until late August to start the fall here in NH.)  The lawn came in well, still had good spreading in the spring, and didn't suffer the fungus problems we had with the heavy nitrogen of the side lawn a few years earlier. However, I think I was too light on fertilizer, having some issues with insufficient color in some areas.

I think the right balance for spring fertilization of a first-spring KBG lawn is somewhere in between those two experiences. Also, with better fall establishment, less "push" is required in the spring.

In this year's renovation, I have applied a total of 3.4#N/ksqft this fall, and will probably try to fertilize more in line with our 2018 renovation in the spring (that is, around a total of 2#N/ksqft, probably split into three applications with the first right after the grass starts growing, the next about 3 weeks later, and the last one about 3 weeks after that) and then no more fertilizer until late August.

Anyway, I think for the greatest success with a KBG renovation, it is best to get seed down in August and fertilize steadily and frequently after "sprout and pout" ends into the fall, getting as much N down as one can without encouraging fall disease. That seems to be what most of the folks in this year's Cool Season Renos thread have done. Then, in the spring following, a more moderate approach can be taken, with the last spring fertilizer being a month before the summer heat arrives, to avoid pushing fast, lush growth into the fungal pressures of summer weather with warm, humid nights.


----------



## OnTheLawn

Just catching up here. A lot of the newer KBG cultivars also really do well if not pushed as hard. 2lbs/M of N is a good target when spoon feeding, so at 1.75 I'd call it good. Remember, these cultivars are bred and designed to be stressed and mistreated and still perform well. This is discussed in one of the Ryan Knorr podcast episodes about renovation fertilizing post establishment, specifically related to KBG.

Anyways, hard to believe we're almost at the end of these renos! Our 2021 journals are going to be a fun follow and next summer we'll get out first true test. Looking forward to it! Now I get to spend all winter researching which KBG cultivar to over seed my TTTF with next fall...


----------



## JerseyGreens

Great points @ken-n-nancy and @OnTheLawn!

One thing we all need to figure out is a good preventative fungicide program...crucially important the first year as they are still babies.


----------



## bf7

ken-n-nancy said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Should we really be putting down more N in the spring than in the fall? I've been trying to do a fall N blitz, obviously on a lesser scale than I would on mature grass, but expecting the need for N to decease in the spring. I thought the seedlings would store the nutrients over the winter to be used in the spring. Is this a "one off" situation for renos? I'm just a noob trying to learn.
> 
> 
> 
> I would mention that I would be wary of putting down too much N in the spring. I've had trouble in the past with too much N in the spring leading to fungus trouble in the summer. There's a balance to be had between pushing growth and avoiding fungus.
> 
> I had never seen any fungus problems in our lawn until the summer after our side lawn 2015 Bewitched KBG renovation. That seed-down date was too late, so the lawn was very sparse getting through winter. To really encourage spreading in the spring, I applied regular helpings of Bay State Fertilizer (Boston's Milorganite) right through into the summer. Spring comes late here -- first mowable growth wasn't until 9 May 2016. As soon as I saw any growth, I started with the fertilizer, applying 2.1#N/ksqft in May, 2.3#N/ksqft in June, and another 0.6#N/ksqft in July. The grass loved it and filled in great. I've posted photos in other threads, but the establishment from very sparse at the beginning of May to a lawn by the middle of July, was quite impressive. However, it came to a bad end....
> 
> Being completely unprepared for fungus, I had a real fungal issue by late July. I ended up nearly losing the entire monostand. In hindsight, I think I should have been more reserved on the heavy nitrogen in the spring.
> 
> In our 2018 Front Lawn Bewitched & Prosperity KBG Renovation, I seeded earlier and thus had time to get more N down in the fall (1.7#N/ksqft) and then was very light with fertilizer in the spring. (1.1#N/ksqft in May, 0.7#N/ksqft in June, and then no more until late August to start the fall here in NH.) The lawn came in well, still had good spreading in the spring, and didn't suffer the fungus problems we had with the heavy nitrogen of the side lawn a few years earlier. However, I think I was too light on fertilizer, having some issues with insufficient color in some areas.
> 
> I think the right balance for spring fertilization of a first-spring KBG lawn is somewhere in between those two experiences. Also, with better fall establishment, less "push" is required in the spring.
> 
> In this year's renovation, I have applied a total of 3.4#N/ksqft this fall, and will probably try to fertilize more in line with our 2018 renovation in the spring (that is, around a total of 2#N/ksqft, probably split into three applications with the first right after the grass starts growing, the next about 3 weeks later, and the last one about 3 weeks after that) and then no more fertilizer until late August.
> 
> Anyway, I think for the greatest success with a KBG renovation, it is best to get seed down in August and fertilize steadily and frequently after "sprout and pout" ends into the fall, getting as much N down as one can without encouraging fall disease. That seems to be what most of the folks in this year's Cool Season Renos thread have done. Then, in the spring following, a more moderate approach can be taken, with the last spring fertilizer being a month before the summer heat arrives, to avoid pushing fast, lush growth into the fungal pressures of summer weather with warm, humid nights.
Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing! This is so helpful to know what can happen under a few different scenarios of N inputs. Almost like a sensitivity analysis. I have put down a total of 1.8 lbs this fall, and I think I'm going to shoot for around 2.5 lbs in the spring.

What number are you targeting for the spring @JerseyGreens?


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## JerseyGreens

@bf7 - great question.

I have to remember that I have this decomposing 2-3 inches under my topsoil and at some point (maybe already doing this) it's going to start shooting N back into the root zone of my new lawn.



With that said I'm thinking 2.5 - 3lbs of N this Spring...basically 0.25 lbs of N per K every week until I notice it getting juiced up N from below (which will be an educated guess).


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## JerseyGreens

Tried some wave stripes today. Got a little checkerboard effect as my diagonal doubles burned it well last weekend.


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## OnTheLawn

Love wavy stripes. Looks awesome! I gotta get a striping kit for the rotary for next spring.


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## bf7

I wish I could get these nice defined stripes! That is a sweet mower you have there. Is this still 3/4"?

Are you putting anything else down in November (N, weed control, fungicides)?


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## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> I wish I could get these nice defined stripes! That is a sweet mower you have there. Is this still 3/4"?
> 
> Are you putting anything else down in November (N, weed control, fungicides)?


Thank you. That's an inch. It got overgrown so moved it up and will do 3/4 on Tuesday.

Actually just went out and put N just as it started to drizzle. With the warm weather this week - I'm going to push it one last time.

I have some weeds but nothing crazy. I'm just going to tackle that in the spring.

Actually haven't even put my Prodiamine down. :shock:


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## bf7

I was thinking same thing. A whole week with temps in the 60s coming up so I'm chomping at the bit to sneak another spoon feeding in. How much did you put down?

Prodiamine probably doesn't matter at this point. I bet you are better off letting the roots do their thing if you aren't seeing a lot of poa. I'm hoping the warmth will wake up my poa so I can slam it with Tenacity in these closing weeks.

If I see a big snow coming before the ground is frozen I think I'll put down a final propi to prevent snow mold. Other than that I'm done with fungicides.


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## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> I was thinking same thing. A whole week with temps in the 60s coming up so I'm chomping at the bit to sneak another spoon feeding in. How much did you put down?
> 
> Prodiamine probably doesn't matter at this point. I bet you are better off letting the roots do their thing if you aren't seeing a lot of poa. I'm hoping the warmth will wake up my poa so I can slam it with Tenacity in these closing weeks.
> 
> If I see a big snow coming before the ground is frozen I think I'll put down a final propi to prevent snow mold. Other than that I'm done with fungicides.


Sounds like a very good plan.

Put down my usual - 0.25 lbs N per K.

Good call on a final Propi app. I'm telling you different fungus live at different temps. My Reno took off after I did that Axozy/Propi tank mix.

I'd recommend any future reno-ers to have a strong preventative fungicide program planned for that season and the entire next growing season. Take no chances.


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## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking same thing. A whole week with temps in the 60s coming up so I'm chomping at the bit to sneak another spoon feeding in. How much did you put down?
> 
> Prodiamine probably doesn't matter at this point. I bet you are better off letting the roots do their thing if you aren't seeing a lot of poa. I'm hoping the warmth will wake up my poa so I can slam it with Tenacity in these closing weeks.
> 
> If I see a big snow coming before the ground is frozen I think I'll put down a final propi to prevent snow mold. Other than that I'm done with fungicides.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like a very good plan.
> 
> Put down my usual - 0.25 lbs N per K.
> 
> Good call on a final Propi app. I'm telling you different fungus live at different temps. My Reno took off after I did that Axozy/Propi tank mix.
> 
> I'd recommend any future reno-ers to have a strong preventative fungicide program planned for that season and the entire next growing season. Take no chances.
Click to expand...

Agree! I'm putting down azoxy this week when temp is in the 60s.


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## JerseyGreens

The most real shots to see your progress...the overhead pics - it was my understanding that rhizomes don't really began their work until the Spring after a KBG reno but this is filling in much more than I'd expect just from tillers...who knows but I'll take it!





I'm not going to plug anything this Fall - cant wait to see what the future holds!


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## shadowlawnjutsu

Very nice! I wouldn't worry on those little bare spots it should fill in next spring. It's also a good test to see how the KBG spreads.


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## JerseyGreens

5/8 inch. I think this is the sweet spot.



You can see the bare spots better. Let's see what happens to them come Spring time!


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## SNOWBOB11

With your lawn getting lots of sun those bare areas are going to fill in with no issue next spring. Spoon feed it next spring and you'll be amazed how much it will thicken up.


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## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> 5/8 inch. I think this is the sweet spot.
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the bare spots better. Let's see what happens to them come Spring time!


Seriously man what's the secret to low mow hard stripes? From far away I would have guessed this was cut at like 4 inches. Phenomenal!


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## JerseyGreens

Thanks @bf7 - it's a lot of walking back and forth on them to "burn" them in.

I'll have to cut again today - that last AMS app is really pushing the grass...need to remind myself to stop with the N - even if we get another warm week later in Nov. I love the look but I'm getting tired of mowing (especially doubles!)


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## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> Thanks @bf7 - it's a lot of walking back and forth on them to "burn" them in.
> 
> I'll have to cut again today - that last AMS app is really pushing the grass...need to remind myself to stop with the N - even if we get another warm week later in Nov. I love the look but I'm getting tired of mowing (especially doubles!)


Haha I feel you. I put down more N today. It's too tempting.

I'll have to try going over the stripes a few times. Want to try double wide too. I'm going to raise the HOC a bit. Too much color loss for me at 3/4, but it looks like yours gets darker when you go lower!

Don't say you're tired of mowing now, you'll be missing that reel in January!


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## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks @bf7 - it's a lot of walking back and forth on them to "burn" them in.
> 
> I'll have to cut again today - that last AMS app is really pushing the grass...need to remind myself to stop with the N - even if we get another warm week later in Nov. I love the look but I'm getting tired of mowing (especially doubles!)
> 
> 
> 
> Haha I feel you. I put down more N today. It's too tempting.
> 
> I'll have to try going over the stripes a few times. Want to try double wide too. I'm going to raise the HOC a bit. Too much color loss for me at 3/4, but it looks like yours gets darker when you go lower!
> 
> Don't say you're tired of mowing now, you'll be missing that reel in January!
Click to expand...

Very true man...I'll probably be wiping the reel mower down multiple times in depression come January.

Do you have a grooved front roller? I know you were looking into a reel with less blades, maybe a flat front roller would be a good investment as well given you are targeting 3/4 inch as HOC.


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## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks @bf7 - it's a lot of walking back and forth on them to "burn" them in.
> 
> I'll have to cut again today - that last AMS app is really pushing the grass...need to remind myself to stop with the N - even if we get another warm week later in Nov. I love the look but I'm getting tired of mowing (especially doubles!)
> 
> 
> 
> Haha I feel you. I put down more N today. It's too tempting.
> 
> I'll have to try going over the stripes a few times. Want to try double wide too. I'm going to raise the HOC a bit. Too much color loss for me at 3/4, but it looks like yours gets darker when you go lower!
> 
> Don't say you're tired of mowing now, you'll be missing that reel in January!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very true man...I'll probably be wiping the reel mower down multiple times in depression come January.
> 
> Do you have a grooved front roller? I know you were looking into a reel with less blades, maybe a flat front roller would be a good investment as well given you are targeting 3/4 inch as HOC.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's grooved. What's the advantage of a flat roller?

I was looking into reels and I think they only go down to 9 blades on my model, so I might just stick with 11 until it needs replaced and settle for doing multiple passes. Not so bad but just pisses off the wife.


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## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haha I feel you. I put down more N today. It's too tempting.
> 
> I'll have to try going over the stripes a few times. Want to try double wide too. I'm going to raise the HOC a bit. Too much color loss for me at 3/4, but it looks like yours gets darker when you go lower!
> 
> Don't say you're tired of mowing now, you'll be missing that reel in January!
> 
> 
> 
> Very true man...I'll probably be wiping the reel mower down multiple times in depression come January.
> 
> Do you have a grooved front roller? I know you were looking into a reel with less blades, maybe a flat front roller would be a good investment as well given you are targeting 3/4 inch as HOC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah it's grooved. What's the advantage of a flat roller?
> 
> I was looking into reels and I think they only go down to 9 blades on my model, so I might just stick with 11 until it needs replaced and settle for doing multiple passes. Not so bad but just pisses off the wife.
Click to expand...

From what I've read (not experienced), the front smooth roller really makes better stripes. The grooved roller is best for standing the blades up to get cut.

I actually noticed my quality of last cut was pretty bad (front roller pushed down many blades that didn't stand back up in time before the reel hit em) so I'll take off my front roller and give it a cut today. Then in two or so days come back with the front roller on to get those stripes.


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## bf7

Got it. Pros and cons for each I guess.

I wonder how much of the stripe comes from the front roller vs the drum. My naive gut says the drum is heavier and would push the grass down better, but I am clueless. Curious to see your cut after removing the roller.


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## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Got it. Pros and cons for each I guess.
> 
> I wonder how much of the stripe comes from the front roller vs the drum. My naive gut says the drum is heavier and would push the grass down better, but I am clueless. Curious to see your cut after removing the roller.


Will share later but from afar - the stripes are not nearly as clean/dark but from close up the cut it so much better given the younger blades!


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## JerseyGreens

@bf7 - 5/8" and no front roller. Much better quality of cut...stripes are still coming out good.

Noticing a yellow haze again - will snap some shots. Went a bit long on my last fungicide app but this worries me a bit because I've put down a hefty amount of Azoxy and Propi this reno...whatever is living in my soil will become resilient sooner rather than later which concerns me.


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## bf7

Wow, looks awesome. Your yard has a nice green glow.

Sorry to hear about your yellow problem coming back. I definitely don't see it in that pic.


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## JerseyGreens

There is a better shot of it. Could have just been the lighting but I'm not sure.

If it's not fungus then it's hungry for N...but I need to stop that now. It's a tossup. Not sure how to counteract.


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## Biggylawns

Lawn looks good. Did u put down any iron? Maybe a mis-spray or some poa a? You should look into a dif frac group now so you can rotate next year. G-man's signature has a link to dif frac codes along with a cost analysis (overall and by app/k).


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## JerseyGreens

Biggylawns said:


> Lawn looks good. Did u put down any iron? Maybe a mis-spray or some poa a? You should look into a dif frac group now so you can rotate next year. G-man's signature has a link to dif frac codes along with a cost analysis (overall and by app/k).


Thanks man!

No iron except for the minimal amount in CX STRT.

I have FEature on hand but figured to wait until the spring to get into that game but I'll think about it with the warm temps.

It's not poa a - it happens in places where my washouts moved to an overcrowded area. They are fighting for nutrients and also a breeding ground for fungus.

I'm going to take my Allett turf rake out and go over the lawn. It won't necessarily thin out those areas but I'm suspecting it will give some more room for the healthier ones trying to mature. Survival of the fittest.

My old grass/thatch is also decomposing 2-3 inches down which is fighting the grass for N.


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## JerseyGreens

Sprayed Clearys 3336F at 3oz per K...fungus amongst us.

Had to get back in for a call but I can snap some pictures later.

Be on the lookout!


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## bf7

So you went with the Cleary, nice! That's one expensive treatment!


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## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> So you went with the Cleary, nice! That's one expensive treatment!


Yeah man. $60 for a bottle isn't cheap! Especially with the application rates.


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## JerseyGreens

As promised here is a close-up picture of the worst area.

Any idea what kind of fungus this might be?

Applied Clearys 3336F yesterday...hoping for the best outcome at this point.



Grass blades are wet as it just started to rain here. I actually did a full reno as I got sick and tired of how the fungus would destroy my TTTF lawn...guess I just need to ride this out with fungicides until the ground freezes.


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## SNOWBOB11

Could be rust. It always seems to be a issue on a new KBG lawn. Do the paper towel test to see if you get a yellow residue. If you do then it's rust.


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## bf7

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Could be rust. It always seems to be a issue on a new KBG lawn. Do the paper towel test to see if you get a yellow residue. If you do then it's rust.


I just tried this on my fungus spots, and although it was slight, there was some residue on the paper towel. Thanks for the tip.


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## JerseyGreens

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Could be rust. It always seems to be a issue on a new KBG lawn. Do the paper towel test to see if you get a yellow residue. If you do then it's rust.


Great idea - and thank you!

Will try the test once the rain stops.


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## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could be rust. It always seems to be a issue on a new KBG lawn. Do the paper towel test to see if you get a yellow residue. If you do then it's rust.
> 
> 
> 
> I just tried this on my fungus spots, and although it was slight, there was some residue on the paper towel. Thanks for the tip.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure I'm going to apply a fungicide regime until first snow or soil getting to ~35 degrees...this is wild!

Also Cleary's is supposed to do well against Rust per the Fungicide Guide - Propi is not good for it.


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## bf7

Sweet. I will be putting down Clearys tomorrow! Thanks for checking that!


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## JerseyGreens

My bad. Propi is actually real good for Ru.

I was reading the fungicide guide too quickly!


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## JerseyGreens

Hopefully this wasn't my last "real" cut - got a good amount of clippings.


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## Alex1389

JerseyGreens said:


> Hopefully this wasn't my last "real" cut - got a good amount of clippings.


Looking good! I think we have another 2 weeks or so of mowing here.


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## bf7

Jealous! Barely anything in the basket for me. I could see maybe another 2-3 mows prior to Thanksgiving given how mild this month has been. I think last year I was done in early November so not complaining.


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## JerseyGreens

Thanks @Alex1389 - your lawn is maturing nicely. Can't wait to mine in a year.

@bf7 it could have been all of the rain but with the temps dropping dooms day is near. I already bought the tools for backlapping...sad days ahead.


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## JerseyGreens

Loving the color this late in the season.





Clearys did good work.

The added bonus of a short cut lawn is that the leaves are just blowing across the lawn like a carpet into the street or neighbors yard!


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## SOLARSUPLEX

What HOC are you maintaining in these latest pics? Things are looking really nice! Have you had to use PGR this year?


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## JerseyGreens

SOLARSUPLEX said:


> What HOC are you maintaining in these latest pics? Things are looking really nice! Have you had to use PGR this year?


Thank you!

Not yet on the PGR. Will wait until next growing season.

HOC is 3/4"


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## SOLARSUPLEX

3/4" seems to be the sweet spot in my book. Keep it up!


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## JerseyGreens

Another sad milestone - just winterized the irrigation system...cruising into winter now.

I think we will be cutting for another ~2 weeks though...


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## JerseyGreens

And I wanted to do my last cut of the year today and wrap up the reno journal:



:lol:


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## Chris LI

Rats! On the bright side, you're getting some slow release H20. It must enhance color, because the grass always seems to be greener after a snow event. With temps expected to rise over the next couple of days, hopefully you will get that mow in.


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