# Bahia to Bermuda renovation



## ktgrok

So, the Bahia in our yard has passed it's point of no return. When we bought the house it wasn't great, and several children and much neglect later it is nearly gone, replaced by nutsedge and other weeds. My husband hates lawn work, and works two jobs so my oldest son took over, but he also hates lawn work and now is working full time, so I decided to take it over myself. Turns out, I LIKE working in the yard, who knew? I started by just putting in some beds for flowers. I realized the mower was set too low for Bahia and raised it, started mulching instead of bagging, and fertilized, but eventually realized it was a lost cause, and decided to go nuclear. I chose Bermuda as the new lawn due to cost (can buy seed) and because I have common bermuda invading anyway, so I figured in a way the lawn itself was choosing to be Bermuda - if you can't beat em, join em, right?

Step 1 - water. We inherited a bizarre ancient irrigation system with the house, and although some heads did work my husband never used it because why water a lawn you don't like anyway - or such was his thinking. So what started out as me replacing a few heads turned into me digging trench after trench to find all the lines, by hand, through roots and rocks. In several places the maple tree had sent roots over two feet into the irrigation pipe, through broken risers. (I've told my children I will disown them if they ever plant a maple tree or put down landscape rock in their yards). I found the weirdest, most inefficient sprinkler system ever with my digging, along with 2 forks, a necklace, and a plastic hand  Seriously, almost no straight lines, several actual C shaped curves, and in on section 45 feet of pipe that go nowhere and do nothing. So I basically redid the whole darned thing myself. In 98 degree heat. By myself, as a stay at home mom, with kids running around and 2 yr old helping. It was a memorable experience 

Step 2 - kill it all. I sprayed round up on the yard on Memorial day. So far some of it is dead, some of it is yellow. Probably going to need to do another application, since there is so much nutsedge. May try doing it with the hose end sprayer this time?

Step 3 - rake it up, level it out. Not sure exactly which to do first? Also not sure if I should just scalp it with the mower, and hand rake the best I can to get the crap out, or if I should go ahead and rent a power rake from Home Depot? I know it's meant for pulling thatch but I've heard it might help in pulling out the dead grass/weeds? Also going to get a yard of fill dirt to finish filling in the trenches from the irrigation exploration/installation. Maybe another yard of compost to spread on top of everything before seeding?

Step 4 - Seed with Maya Bermuda seed. I ordered 10 pounds from Hancock seed for my not quite 3K front/side yard. May put a bit in the backyard as well - most is mulch due to trees/dogs/etc but we used to have some grass in the sunny areas and would like to0 again. They are small areas, and I'd just fence them off to keep the dogs out while the grass grows.

Questions: 
1. I'm not sure if I should put anything OVER the seed? Just rake it into the soil, or put peat moss, or compost, or something on top?
2. Is the power rake worth renting, for pulling out dead grass/weeds/etc or just hand rake and not worry about it? Would it help with leveling things out?
3. I ordered some "root ruckus", which is a liquid with kelp, humic acid, and microrrhyzae in it. It's made locally, so seemed worth trying, but I don't know if I should use it before seeding, after seeding, after germination, or what?
4. I have a TON of buried/partially buried landscape rocks from nearly 2 decades ago, mostly lava rocks, that some previous homeowner thought would be great. How much of those do I need to get up? I mean, the weeds and common bermuda are growing so maybe it's not a huge worry?

Pics are before I started on the lawn, right after I put the flowers in, and of the irrigation project. I'll continue to add photos as I proceed.


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## UFG8RMIKE

Quite the project, I applaud your efforts. I'm no expert so can't help much on a seeding job but you will want to level best you can prior to seeding, which includes getting the rocks up, getting all the old dead grass, roots, etc up, etc.

Did you fix all the irrigation with all new straight runs? What was there looks like a disaster, lol.

.


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## ktgrok

UFG8RMIKE said:


> Quite the project, I applaud your efforts. I'm no expert so can't help much on a seeding job but you will want to level best you can prior to seeding, which includes getting the rocks up, getting all the old dead grass, roots, etc up, etc.
> 
> Did you fix all the irrifation with all new straight runs? What was there looks like a disaster, lol.
> 
> .


Almost all new, yes. there were a few spots I kept, or worked with what was there, but the job went much faster/easier when I pretended I was working from scratch. Because yeah, a disaster. They actually tunneled under the sidewalk in three different places, for reasons I cannot fathom, and rather than installing sprays in a regular pattern they had a few random sprays and then a giant rotor out in the corner of the hell strip and one more in the middle of the yard, on the same zones as the sprays mind you. So basically two sprinklers for most of the yard, a bunch of pipe that went nowhere, and then 3 heads in a 2ft x 10ft area. I've got pretty good coverage now, and even added some drip irrigation for the potted plants.

I'm still considering extending the mulch around the tree to the driveway and sidewalk, given all the exposed roots and increased shade there. Not sure if I will try growing grass there and then decide, or just mulch it now, and maybe put a bench there or something, for when I'm out watching the kids.


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## ktgrok

Photos of the side yard when I took over and after putting in the butterfly garden . I moved those solar panels to the backyard (trying to get a company to reinstall them after putting on a new roof...or convince my husband to do it), cleaned out the cooler my son left out there and put it away, moved the chair back where it goes, and put in a butterfly garden outside the kitchen window.


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## ktgrok

This is the backyard...it's going to be a longer project just due to trying to stagger what I do so the dogs don't destroy it. Right now there is a bit of grass/weeds on the side of the house, you can just see it peaking around the corner there. Same on the other side. The rest was mostly dirt so I put mulch down. Going to try to do grass in most of that side area. Not going to try to do grass in the area behind the pool as it is shaded by oaks and covered in oak leaves and has a swing set on it. Well,t hat and that there is landscape fabric under some of that, buried under the dirt about 2 inches down. For reasons...?


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## ktgrok

More of the irrigation photos...the valve box was totally buried and one of the valves (the leaking one it turned out) was encased completely in a mesh of maple roots - think living brillo pad saturated with dirt. I got to play "root or wire?" trying to excavate it. I finally ended up shooting water down there with the hose to dislodge the dirt in the roots, then used the shop vac to suck it up so I could see what I was doing. Oh, and found a bunch of snake eggs in there too


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## ktgrok

This past weekend was supposed to be for me to work on the yard, instead we had dog stuff going on.....On Saturday the husband and I snuck away to meet a potential new dog for our family, and signed the paperwork to adopt her! The kids don't know yet, we won't pick her up until we get back from our vacation, so the 8th or 9th probably. She's a goldendoodle possibly with some husky as well, from the local Golden Retriever Rescue. I've been on their waiting list since November! (I NEVER thought I'd own a golden doodle! I make fun of people who buy golden doodles!) Then sunday I was on the road most of the day to transport our foster dog across the state so she could meet another foster, as the potential adopter wants to adopt both and needs to know if they get along - thankfully they do.

I did find time to re-spray the entire yard with roundup. I tried using the hose end sprayer briefly, but don't have marker dye and was afraid it wasn't working right so went back to using the hand can to mix and spray. This was application number 2. I didn't get as good a kill as I expected from the first application, and realized that it was because it has been so hot/dry that the grass was basically dormant and not processing the stuff. I hadn't been irrigating since I wanted it to die, but that actually delayed the process it seems. Everything was yellowing, but not all dead yet. I also made some progress on the irrigation in the backyard, not quite done putting that in. Hoping to finish today, and we leave for vacation on Wednesday the 5th.

Also going to go out and dig up/sift the spots with the landscape rocks today, and then have my husband pick up a yard of fill dirt to fill in the trenches from the irrigation, level things, etc. IF there is time I'll rent the power rake tomorrow, but honestly, I doubt we will get to that before leaving for vacation. Seed will arrive the day we leave, and I wasn't going to seed and then leave town anyway.

So goal is prep today and tomorrow, go on vacation from the 5th-8th. Then on the 8th or 9th drive the foster dog we have to her next placement, and pick up the dog we are adopting. Then seed. Oh, and I need to put up some kind of barrier to keep the dogs off the part of the backyard that I'm seeding. My plan is to do it in stages back there, so they don't trample it.


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## ktgrok

So we are getting there, slowly! Ended up doing a total of 3 rounds of glyphosate. Also did use a tiller, but just very shallowly, to get up some of the landscape rocks the previous people put down, and it helped loosen things up so I could level it, and tore up the old sod. I raked everything out (SO MUCH STUFF!) and then today finally put down seed on the main portion. I raked, then used a drop spreader to put down the seed, then raked again to cover lightly with dirt. Then started applying EZ Straw, which is mulched straw with a tack agent in it that makes a glue/gel to hold things in place. I went with that because of the daily thunderstorms we have been having. Unfortunately, it started to rain before I could finish putting it down, and the seed that got rained on was brought up to the surface again! I had to rake it again, then put down the EZ straw in those areas. Ran out of EZ straw and will try to find more tomorrow plus I'm going to rent a lawn roller tomorrow to press the seed in more firmly in hopes of keeping it covered!


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## TN Hawkeye

ktgrok said:


> So we are getting there, slowly! Ended up doing a total of 3 rounds of glyphosate. Also did use a tiller, but just very shallowly, to get up some of the landscape rocks the previous people put down, and it helped loosen things up so I could level it, and tore up the old sod. I raked everything out (SO MUCH STUFF!) and then today finally put down seed on the main portion. I raked, then used a drop spreader to put down the seed, then raked again to cover lightly with dirt. Then started applying EZ Straw, which is mulched straw with a tack agent in it that makes a glue/gel to hold things in place. I went with that because of the daily thunderstorms we have been having. Unfortunately, it started to rain before I could finish putting it down, and the seed that got rained on was brought up to the surface again! I had to rake it again, then put down the EZ straw in those areas. Ran out of EZ straw and will try to find more tomorrow plus I'm going to rent a lawn roller tomorrow to press the seed in more firmly in hopes of keeping it covered!


I can't wait to see how this turns out. You have been busting hump on your lawn. I hope it turns out like you want. Keep the pictures coming.


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## ktgrok

Thanks! I totally meant to take photos today, but my phone battery died as I started, lol. Took these yesterday I think? 

While tilling I found 35 bricks buried in the side yard!!! Dug them all up, and cursed the previous owners. 

I had a full pick up truck bed full of dirt (about 1 yard) under that tarp when I started. Distributed it to the yard in the low spots. It's fill dirt, not top soil, so basically matches my current soil perfectly.


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## ktgrok

Re raked, rolled, and applied peat moss. Still. Have more to do, ran out of peat moss for the seeded area and still need to seed the side yard.


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## WDE46

Nice work so far.

Since you're about to seed, I'll post what I learned recently from my zoysia seeded area. Made some mistakes and had some successes.

1. Peat moss was great for keeping it moist.
2. Erosion control is a must. I would probably put out an erosion blanket over it all at least for the first 2-3 weeks. Maybe tacky straw would also work.

A chunk of my seed and peat moss was washed away in a massive downpour maybe a week after I did it. Then 4 weeks later another huge rain washed out a ton of the rest of the peat moss. Luckily the zoysia was emerged and most remains. The areas where peat moss remain have very good growth so I know peat moss with a starter fert is the way to go. It just needs some help with erosion!

I used about 2.5 of those bags you have for 1000 square feet.


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## ktgrok

Done! Now it's about keeping it moist . Oh and some areas got EZ Straw with tack, some got plain straw, and some got peat moss. We will see which does best. I willl saw that straw is way easier to put down , cleaner, and cheaper .


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## ktgrok

So despite 3 rounds of round up I have surviving common Bermuda popping up again. That stuff is impossible to kill! Anything I can do about it or just accept I will always have some and hope the maya bermuda out competes it when it comes in? Seeded on Friday, today is Tuesday, maybe seeing a tiny bit of germination but could be weeds.


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## ktgrok

Definitely have some germination! Today is 4 days after seeding the main lawn, 3 days after seeding the side lawn. Just a few sprouts, and lots of little weeds, but definitely seeing some baby grass.


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## ktgrok

It's growing!


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## LawnRat

That's a lot of work but you're getting there, good luck! I'm curious to see how the bermuda does down here.

In my area "Florida topsoil" is the same as fill dirt, just $10 more per yard! Both are full of new fun weeds to research.


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## ktgrok

So there are still areas with no or little germination (day 10 after seeding) but the areas that germinated quickly are nearly mowing height! Thinking I'd better buy that manual reel mower sooner rather than later - I'm thinking since it is so light it will be the best choice for the first few cuts at least. 
I spent an hour last night and again tonight pulling up virginia buttonwood by hand - I have a few big patches and don't want it stealing the sun and water from my grass! But the difference in the last few days in the amount of grass growing is amazing!


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## Colonel K0rn

Since it hasn't been said so far, I applaud your efforts in your lawn renovation. You've put a ton of work into it, and thankfully you've got some assistants to help you out! The manual reel is a joy to use when you've got a new lawn growing. I still use mine, when my lawn got really tall and I didn't want to scalp it down to dirt. You'll learn that bermuda is a very tough and aggressive growing grass. I had the best results with mine when I was spoon feeding it. Make sure that you don't use your sprayer that you had roundup in for any other applications other than Roundup. It would suck to kill some new grass when you're trying to kill specific weeds.


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## ktgrok

Colonel K0rn said:


> Since it hasn't been said so far, I applaud your efforts in your lawn renovation. You've put a ton of work into it, and thankfully you've got some assistants to help you out! The manual reel is a joy to use when you've got a new lawn growing. I still use mine, when my lawn got really tall and I didn't want to scalp it down to dirt. You'll learn that bermuda is a very tough and aggressive growing grass. I had the best results with mine when I was spoon feeding it. Make sure that you don't use your sprayer that you had roundup in for any other applications other than Roundup. It would suck to kill some new grass when you're trying to kill specific weeds.


Thank you! Yes, a TON of work. All this started with me planning on just replacing a few sprinkler heads, lol. And good reminder on the sprayer. I know theoretically I could clean it, but I don't trust it. Also, it has a bit of a leaky seal anyway, so plan to get another sprayer anyway.


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## ktgrok

So, two weeks today, and lots of grass, but also lots of weeds. 
I'm starting to rake up (gently) the straw, as in some places it is getting compacted down into a mat and keeping the sun off the grass I think. There are also some areas in the peat moss section that I got the peat moss too deep, or the tons of rain we got washed it into low spots making it too deep, not sure, but either way I'll be adding more seed tomorrow. Also had some dry spots caused by sprinklers that were a bit crooked, and will reseed those areas and hit them with the hose if straightening the sprinklers doesn't fix the issue. Hoping to fertilize tomorrow as well, and put down fire ant control. 
Got my soil savvy results back - results look pretty good! Putting down a balanced fertilizer tomorrow that will add more K, and will search out some potash for later. A bit concerned by the acidity of the soil (5.8), but I'll keep an eye on that. But everything else was in the green zone! I applied milorganite about 6 weeks ago, guess it worked


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## ktgrok

15 days - lots of grass, some bald patches. Put down some more seed in the bald patches, still picking weeds.


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## ktgrok

You can see the dry spot in that picture above, the sprinkler is slightly angled backwards so I need to fix that.


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## Chocolate Lab

More pics, please? I bet it's grown a lot in the last few days.


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## ktgrok

Getting thick in some areas!

And the hell strip is filling in pretty well, much fewer weeds in this area.

You can see that the shade from the maple is an issue, that or the roots stealing water, or both. I've started adding extra water to these areas and put down some extra seed and a bit of peat moss. 

Some of the wild bermuda is coming back, and growing like crazy with the fertilizer and water. I pulled some, but honestly, seems futile. Hoping it will blend at least. 



And the weeds. That's been the big issue, I have a few areas that look like this. Some have a decent amount of baby bermuda under the weeds, some are just weeds. If I ever did this again I'd have a better plan for weeds. Quinclorac will be here Saturday and I'll spray, but I wish I'd had it on hand to start using way earlier. I spend about 2 hours a day picking them, and there are still a ton.


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## FlaDave

That's coming along great! Once you're able to hit those weeds with celsius and get pre-em down, it will be smooth sailing. That looks more than enough good grass to have a full lawn by fall.


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## ktgrok

Side yard is looking good! That's a shadow from the fence, not a color difference. The bare patch at bottom right in second photo is where the 35 bricks I dug up were stacked, going to put a plant and mulch there anyway. More grassy weeds on this part of the lawn but I'll handle those.but it is mostly the maya bermuda. This is less than 3 weeks after seeding!


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## UFG8RMIKE

Lookin good.

.


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## TN Hawkeye

ktgrok said:


> Side yard is looking good! That's a shadow from the fence, not a color difference. The bare patch at bottom right in second photo is where the 35 bricks I dug up were stacked, going to put a plant and mulch there anyway. More grassy weeds on this part of the lawn but I'll handle those.but it is mostly the maya bermuda. This is less than 3 weeks after seeding!


MAN this has been such a cool project to watch. I bet it's gonna look amazing by Halloween.


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## ktgrok

So I have two pretty bare spots in the yard that I thought were maybe just not getting hit evenly by the sprinklers, so I fiddled with that, put down more seed, and put down some peat moss. Just had a thunderstorm and all the peat moss got washed off, along with a good amount of seed, into the grass near it. I'm thinking now that those spots were bare because the same thing happened, and the seed got washed away during the big rainstorms we had right after I seeded. Not sure what to do now, other than spread it back out again. Worst case I guess I can cut some plugs from the good areas once they are more established and fill it in that way.


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## LawnRat

If I had a lawn that could be seeded I'd try and make my own plugs. Some disposable cups with drainage holes, add sand, seed, water, cover with Saran Wrap so they stay wet. 1 month later you've got plugs. Worth a try?


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## ktgrok

LawnRat said:


> If I had a lawn that could be seeded I'd try and make my own plugs. Some disposable cups with drainage holes, add sand, seed, water, cover with Saran Wrap so they stay wet. 1 month later you've got plugs. Worth a try?


That' a great idea!!! I may do that.


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## LawnRat

ktgrok said:


> That' a great idea!!! I may do that.


If you can match up cup size with one of these, planting would be simple!


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## ktgrok

What would you use to grow them as far as soil? Pull some dirt from the backyard, (might get weeds), potting soil, sand mixed with potting soil?


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## ktgrok

Side yard at 21 days. I gave the yard a mow after I took this.


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## LawnRat

ktgrok said:


> What would you use to grow them as far as soil? Pull some dirt from the backyard, (might get weeds), potting soil, sand mixed with potting soil?


In Florida I'd probably just use the sterilized all-purpose or play sand...you don't want any weeds! Roots spread through sand quick, and I'd bet a 4" tall cup would be full of roots after a month. Use the clear cups and you can see when it's ready to transplant. I'd probably mix a tsp or tbsp of Milo with the sand prior to watering and seeding.

I guess you can mix in something like perlite or peat (I hate peat) to hold water for after the seeds germinate. When seeding ornamentals, using potting soil, I water the cups thoroughly, then seed, then put saran wrap over the cup...the plastic wrap does not come off and it gets no more water until after germination. It should stay wet in there, even with just sand, but check just in case. You should see a lot of dew under the plastic wrap during some of the day.

To reduce the need to water cuttings and seedlings I usually use a makeshift "greenhouse". An old aquarium (upside-down, or with clear cover) works great. So does a simple frame made of chicken wire, bamboo stakes etc covered with plastic wrap.

Experiment with soils, fert , watering, take pics and let us know what works best!

Your lawn is coming along great...I'm watching closely because I may want to give bermuda a try down here someday. Nobody else has it in my area...not sure why.


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## ktgrok

Planned to spray the quinclorac tonight, but it was thundering and lightening, and we got a bit of rain. then the rain stopped, but it was still thundering and looked like it would start up again...except it never did. I pulled weeds but didn't spray, as I didn't want to spray and then have it get washed off minutes later by rain that, it turned out, didn't come 

New plan was to spray tomorrow morning, before it gets too hot, but the forecast is saying scattered thunderstorms all day long, so not sure I'll be able to. sigh.


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## Colonel K0rn

@ktgrok FWIW, I germinated some grass in peat pots, and had several ready to plant in just under a month. 

I used these pots to fill in some bare spots in my yard, while also using the ProPlugger to fill in others. Plugging will definitely help you speed up coverage. Also, don't be completely obsessed with 100% coverage the first year of seeding and growth. Look at your yard renovation as a 3 year commitment. You'll be way ahead of the game by then. If you wanted a complete yard out of the box, that's what sod is for. But for your hard work that you've put into it, you'll appreciate it when you've got a solid slate to look at. Keep up the good work, and don't sweat the weeds this summer. Get your PreM down when it's time, and this time next year, you'll be amazed at the dividends your sweat equity is paying.


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## ktgrok

Thanks! I admit today it felt nice to have my daughter say how nice the lawn was 
The minor weeds are no big deal, but the florida pusley does stress me out, just because it grows so thick SO fast it can smother the new grass in no time. Of course, that will be an ongoing battle as long as my neighbor has a yard full of it.


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## ktgrok

Sprayed the Quinclorac today, since the forecast changed and it was going to be dry after all. A bit frustrated by the whole process, but I figure it's a learning experience. I realized 1. I am too heavy with my spraying...so I did dilute a bit for the second half the yard to make up for my heavier volume if the tmakes sense. Also learned to hold on to the measuring spoon better when rinsing it....thought I was so smart to rinse it over the tank so any residue went into the tank...then dropped it into the tank, lol.

Also frustrated because quinclorac works best with MSO, but it also says not to use any additive, including MSO, on newly seeded grass. So I didn't, and yeah, you could see it did NOT want to stick to the Florida Pusley at all. Hopefully it will at least get the remaining Bahia trying to come back, and the grassy weeds, and maybe slow down the Pusley at least.

This is a photo of the side yard - it's protected from all the neighborhood weeds by the fence, so looks the best. Day 22 since seeding on that area.


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## ktgrok

Yesterday I mowed again, it had been 5 days and that was way too long...ended up taking way too much off. I should have raided the HOC and then just mowed again a day or so later, instead I took off about half the length of the blade.  I'm hoping it isn't too upset about it. 
Pulled more weeds, sigh. Also finding a LOT of Bahia that is trying to come up, not from old stolons but new seedlings which I guess I shouldn't be surprised about given that my neighbor's yard is Bahia and he has a ton of seed heads right now. At least, I'm pretty sure those are Bahia - picture below. Also a few patches of common bermuda, which I pull out as much as I can but try not to worry too much about - mainly because there is nothing I can do about it.

I was never able to get the Quicksilver via amazon due to them STILL having shipping issues with Florida, so I bought the small bottle and shipped it to a friend in North Carolina, who will ship it to me when she gets it. Ridiculous, and will take a while to get to me, but it is what it is. And a generous person on the board is mailing me some Celsius for when the grass is ready for it.

I can definitely see discoloration from the Quinclorac, but it is still growing super fast. Going to fertilize again this weekend - if not sooner, and see if that helps it come back to dark green more quickly. Also, lots of tiny little bermuda sprouts in the bare places where I added more seed. Only truly bare spots are the big areas in the front where the seed/peat/straw/everything gets washed away. Tons of peat all around the ares where it washed off, but not much ON that area. I am growing some plugs in peat pots to put there.

Now my question is, how long does it take bermuda to go from seedlings that grow UP to mature grass that spreads OUT?


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## Chocolate Lab

> Now my question is, how long does it take bermuda to go from seedlings that grow UP to mature grass that spreads OUT?


I planted my Monaco bermuda reno only a little over a month ago, and I can say that early last week, I had a small area in the corner where my driveway and street meet that was bare hardpan, with only spurge and purslane growing. (Probably where the sprinklers weren't hitting.) I dug it out by hand, threw down a little organic fertilizer, and watered by hand there. Literally two days later it was almost covered with the bermuda.

So the answer is it doesn't take long, only about 3 to 3.5 weeks in my case. I did mow at about 1.25" with a manual Fiskars reel to try to encourage spreading. (I'll try it lower now that's it's cooled off slightly from 100 to 94 or so.)


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## ktgrok

Photos, day 28.


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## ktgrok

Chocolate Lab said:


> Now my question is, how long does it take bermuda to go from seedlings that grow UP to mature grass that spreads OUT?
> 
> 
> 
> I planted my Monaco bermuda reno only a little over a month ago, and I can say that early last week, I had a small area in the corner where my driveway and street meet that was bare hardpan, with only spurge and purslane growing. (Probably where the sprinklers weren't hitting.) I dug it out by hand, threw down a little organic fertilizer, and watered by hand there. Literally two days later it was almost covered with the bermuda.
> 
> So the answer is it doesn't take long, only about 3 to 3.5 weeks in my case. I did mow at about 1.25" with a manual Fiskars reel to try to encourage spreading. (I'll try it lower now that's it's cooled off slightly from 100 to 94 or so.)
Click to expand...

How often do you mow?


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## Chocolate Lab

I've only mowed it a couple of times. Of course it only really started looking like a lawn in the last 10 days or so. The jump mine made from about 12 days after seeding to about 17 days after seeding was amazing. Yours is to that point, so I think it will be spreading like crazy very shortly.

Are you fertilizing much? I did put down some 10-20-10 mixed with Ammonium Sulfate -- I got lucky when my Home Depot closed out some 21-0-0 bags marked down from $10 to $1.10 a bag -- but on the low end, as I don't have much experience with chemical fertilizers and didn't want to risk harming it. I've mostly fertilized with some chicken litter fert that's very close in analysis to Milorganite.


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## ktgrok

I put down about .3lbs of N/P/K per thousand using 10-10-10 not quite 2 weeks ago. Going to repeat tomorrow.


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## Chocolate Lab

I'm no expert, but that sounds good to me. I keep reading on there that it can take maybe more than conventional wisdom says.

BTW, I think yours is coming along great. I bet it's covering everything in a matter of days.


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## ktgrok

Let's hope so! Right now I'm getting really fast vertical growth, but not lateral. Except of course from the common bermuda that is mixed in in a few places, that I never managed to totally kill (despite 3 applications of roundup).


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## ktgrok

Grass in the main yard is looking a bit stressed. I'm sure that's partly from the quinclorac I sprayed a week ago, but I sprayed that on the side yard too and it looks better. The side yard gets less direct blasting sun, so it stays more moist. I'm thinking that when i started cutting back the watering frequency on the main yard I did it too quickly, and it is not happy about it. My soil is so sandy that everything dries up very quickly, so cutting back when the roots are still pretty shallow probably meant it was getting stressed. Upped the watering today, so we will see what happens. Doesn't help that multiple times I canceled the watering because it was supposed to rain in the next hour, only to have it rain everywhere BUT my street. The whole town keeps getting downpours and my house is dry dry dry. With heat in the mid 90s that's just not working for the poor grass without a lot of help. I also ordered a 20lb bag of Sulfate of Potash today, as my soil test showed low potassium and I know that potassium can effect drought stress, etc. Hopefully that will help as well.


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## ktgrok

Good: Lawn guys working on the neighbor's lawn asked about mine, and complimented me on the job I'm doing with it 

Bad: Found these guys eating my new grass!!!! I'd been wondering why I had areas that the grass just looked like stalks, for lack of a better term...it's because these dudes were munching all the blade off!

I also learned today that "Frass" means caterpillar poop.

I applied triazicide to the lawn at dusk, while walking through the freaking moths. Now I know why all those birds keep coming to to my lawn! thinking that's why there are so many wasps flying around my lawn as well - bet they are the parasitic ones that were going after the caterpillars.


----------



## Chocolate Lab

Any updates?


----------



## ktgrok

Utter frustration is the most accurate update I can give. The darned caterpillars are KILLING ME! Rather, killing my grass. I have both sod webworms and army worms and nothing I do is killing them off. I've tried granular - two different active ingredients, and there are maybe fewer but still plenty of all sizes from big to little. About to go put out some liquid spray that has imidacloprid and cyfluthrin in it. The poor grass is just ravaged in areas. I thought I hated the weeds, but I hate the caterpillars WAY more.


----------



## Chocolate Lab

Ugh, sorry to hear that.

I wonder if an organic solution might work: Diatomaceous Earth. I know it works well on slugs and soft-bodied insects -- it dessiccates them. Could be worth a try for not much money at a farm store.


----------



## Coldsprings

Nature abhors a vacuum(and a pretty lawn). &#128514; Stick with it! Looking way better than when this thread started.


----------



## ktgrok

Chocolate Lab said:


> Ugh, sorry to hear that.
> 
> I wonder if an organic solution might work: Diatomaceous Earth. I know it works well on slugs and soft-bodied insects -- it dessiccates them. Could be worth a try for not much money at a farm store.


I think diatomaceous earth has to be dry to work - we are finally getting our rainy season, so I think it would just wash into the soil. I think that is what is happening to everything I'm putting down. Tried the spray tonight, a few hours AFTER the rain, so should get some good contact time between now and the next storm. And the imidacloprid in it gets absorbed into the grass itself to continue to poison the bugs that eat the grass, so when it does rain there will still be something working, hopefully.


----------



## ktgrok

Coldsprings said:


> Nature abhors a vacuum(and a pretty lawn). 😂 Stick with it! Looking way better than when this thread started.


Thank you! At least the Pusley is dying off, and what is left will hopefully die from the Quicksilver I did today. The neighbors keep complimenting me on how good the lawn is looking, and from a distance it isn't horrid, but up close the caterpillar damage in breaking my heart. I keep telling myself "it's bermuda, it will come back" and hoping it is true.


----------



## ktgrok

Oh, and in fun additions I've now got dollar weed too  Honestly, that kind of just made me feel like it's a real Florida lawn now, lol. Can't have a Florida lawn without some dollar weed now and then, right?


----------



## Chocolate Lab

ktgrok said:


> I think diatomaceous earth has to be dry to work - we are finally getting our rainy season,


You are right and I'm very jealous of your rain... 100 degrees, super dry, and 20 mph winds here. 

Good luck. I'm looking forward to seeing some close ups of how dense your maya will get.


----------



## ktgrok

Some photos from today. Not sure how far out I am now, lol....5 weeks, given or take a day.

Some photos are pre-mowing today, all are pre-edging/trimming. 



Dollarweed in the side yard. 

One of the dense patches in the side yard. Nice and squishy. 

Common Bermuda that refuses to die. At this point I'm kind of ignoring it as it is better than bare dirt right there, and that spot gets less water from the sprinklers and gets super hot from the asphalt. Once the sodworms/armyworms are gone and the Maya starts sending out stolons I'll brush the common with glyphosate and let the maya try to take over. For now it's bette than the other "weeds" in the yard so it can stay. I just keep trimming it back so it doesn't spread too much.

The Florida Pusley and Purslane dying, finally. Also you can see how thin the bermuda is from the army worms...it's just stems, and so sad looking. 

More Pusley dying. More army worm damage in the bermuda around it.


----------



## ktgrok

Video of that dense area - about 2 inches tall maybe? https://www.facebook.com/katie.loeschmeyer/videos/10156648150928666/


----------



## ktgrok

I think the caterpillars are dead!!!!!1

I didn't even check this morning, I didn't have the heart to check and find them again. But after mowing, edging, trimming, and then swimming with the kids, cleaning the pool filter, etc I felt Zen enough to check. Ran out and did the soapy water test on 4 areas and didn't see a single army worm, sod webworm, or anything else for that matter!!!!!!! I was seeing three per area before, easily.

I think spray vs granular made the difference. And the imidicloprid in the spray I used should keep working for a while, on any lingerers. Will keep this in mind for other critters in the yard as well. And will probably retreat in a week, just to be sure, or sooner if I find the buggers in the yard.

In the meantime, I can't say what a relief this is! The weeds are starting to turn toasty - even more so than when I took the photos earlier today - dollar weed is curling up nicely, and with the caterpillars gone it's a matter of fertilizer and water - and the rainy season seems to finally be starting! Oh, and LOTS of mowing. Raised the HOC today, to more like 2 inches, just because I couldn't keep up, even mowing every 3 days. I was breaking the 1/3 rule every time. Plus I figure this gives the poor chewed up blades a bit more surface area to photosynthesize as they come back from the caterpillars.

I still have the big bare spots, where every time I tried to seed it it got washed away. (there is a TON of peat moss and straw in the surrounding grass now because of that.) At this point I have a few plugs growing in pots, and I cut away the overgrown area around the water shut off box and transplanted it today. Will cut a few plugs if need be in a while, once the rainy season is full force and things are growing well, to fill that in.


----------



## Chocolate Lab

Thanks for the vid of the density. It looks great! And I'm sure with the rain it'll spread like crazy over the old weedy and bare areas.


----------



## ktgrok

In a funny aside, the other day my husband implied that I was spending too much time on the lawn. What he meant was that he was worried I was going to overdo things and should take a break, but the way he said it was less than appreciated. I got upset, he felt guilty, and later when I sent him to get some propane for the old falling apart grill he came home with a whole new grill as an apology and a thank you for all the work I've done on the yard.

I suppose he figures happy wife, happy life  And he likes that I do the yard work and the grilling


----------



## Greendoc

ktgrok said:


> I think the caterpillars are dead!!!!!1
> 
> I didn't even check this morning, I didn't have the heart to check and find them again. But after mowing, edging, trimming, and then swimming with the kids, cleaning the pool filter, etc I felt Zen enough to check. Ran out and did the soapy water test on 4 areas and didn't see a single army worm, sod webworm, or anything else for that matter!!!!!!! I was seeing three per area before, easily.
> 
> I think spray vs granular made the difference. And the imidicloprid in the spray I used should keep working for a while, on any lingerers. Will keep this in mind for other critters in the yard as well. And will probably retreat in a week, just to be sure, or sooner if I find the buggers in the yard.
> 
> In the meantime, I can't say what a relief this is! The weeds are starting to turn toasty - even more so than when I took the photos earlier today - dollar weed is curling up nicely, and with the caterpillars gone it's a matter of fertilizer and water - and the rainy season seems to finally be starting! Oh, and LOTS of mowing. Raised the HOC today, to more like 2 inches, just because I couldn't keep up, even mowing every 3 days. I was breaking the 1/3 rule every time. Plus I figure this gives the poor chewed up blades a bit more surface area to photosynthesize as they come back from the caterpillars.
> 
> I still have the big bare spots, where every time I tried to seed it it got washed away. (there is a TON of peat moss and straw in the surrounding grass now because of that.) At this point I have a few plugs growing in pots, and I cut away the overgrown area around the water shut off box and transplanted it today. Will cut a few plugs if need be in a while, once the rainy season is full force and things are growing well, to fill that in.


If you cannot keep up with mowing, mow lower and cut back on the fertilizer


----------



## Greendoc

My idea of the 1/3 rule is to take down 1/3 of the total height on the first pass and then take down another 1/3 off of that. Repeat until the Bermuda is at 1/2"

The 1/3 rule is from research done on non irrigated cool season grass mowed with a rotary in relation to how much stress is imposed by mowing at various heights. Not relevant to reel low warm season turf.


----------



## ktgrok

Ok, good to know that Bermuda won't get cranky if I take off too much. Any thought as to if lower or higher is better while recovering from the army worm damage? The blades are so chewed I wasn't sure if giving more length would help with photosynthesis, or if cutting shorter would help with spreading.


----------



## Greendoc

Mow it lower. High mowing gives the Armyworm more places to hide and more to eat.


----------



## Greendoc

Following the 1/3 rule as it is commonly advertised is a sure way to get a thatchy and hard to manage warm season lawn. In warm season grass, with the exception of St Augustine, the goal should be to maintain 1/2" even if it means taking off more than 1/3 at a mowing.


----------



## Coldsprings

If you upgraded to a self propelled mower you could save time and be able to cut it every day😝 <End peer pressure>


----------



## ktgrok

LOL, I love my manual reel! And with it, I feel safe mowing with the kids in the yard with me, as I can hear them if they need something.


----------



## ktgrok

Just found 5 damned caterpillars. I don't know what I did to anger the lawn gods, but it must have been something terrible to bring this plague upon my house.

In all seriousness, I think I'm going to end up having to call someone to come out and treat the lawn professionally, just because i think that will be more cost effective than over $200 in dylox spray concentrate.

Actually, I think first step is to check out the local you do it pest control shop tomorrow and see about getting a concentrate that I can mix up and spray thoroughly rather than the big box store hose end spray. Then if that doesn't work I will call a professional on monday.


----------



## ktgrok

So thanks to @FlaDave I now have some Celsius! Question is, when to use it. I sprayed Quicksilver on 7/18. Fertilized with at a low rate on 7/12. I NEED to mow tomorrow - should be doing it right now but want to let the Spinosad I put down for armyworms do its thing a bit longer.

I Want/Need to put down:
Celsius
Gordon's Lawn and Pasture Liquid Fertilizer 20-0-0 with micros (low, spoon feeding dose)
A humic/kelp blend

When and what order would you do this? Keeping in mind the yard is recovering from army worm damage and it is hot hot hot here. Any spraying would be done in the evening just before dusk. Oh, and PUsley and purslane and some of my other weeds require the high rate of Celsius, which I hate to do in this heat on stressed grass, so I was thinking if I do it sooner, I could use the lower rate, while the weeds are already stressed from the Quicksilver. But that might be backwards, if they are stressed from the quicksilver maybe they won't even uptake the Celsius, and better to wait?


----------



## ktgrok

Ok, it is currently pouring rain. Hoping it dries a bit by evening, and then I will apply Spinosad to the side yard (ran out last night). Then tomorrow will have to mow, will do it in the AM probably. Then I will use the kelp/humic stuff and the liquid fertilizer. With liquids, better to use it right after a rain or several hours before or? Usually rains in the afternoon. Then wait 1-2 days, then celsius, then wait 1-2 days, and then mow again.

Caterpillar control will be as needed, rotating products.


----------



## Greendoc

Medium rate of Celsius + Quicksilver in the same spray is a standard app for me.


----------



## Way2low01

Wow, quite the undertaking! It appears your efforts are paying off nicely, well done! Nothing more satisfying than rolling up the sleeves and making it happen.


----------



## Coldsprings

Any visible live caterpillars today? Or has it been too rainy to investigate?


----------



## ktgrok

Coldsprings said:


> Any visible live caterpillars today? Or has it been too rainy to investigate?


I checked a few spots earlier today, and only found one, a big fat one. My understanding is the really big ones are hard to kill no matter what you use, so not surprised. Not sure if there really aren't any small ones left, or if it was the time of day that I checked - super hot/sunny so I know they were hiding. It seems even the soapy water may not flush them out in that sun. I should go check now, with it being overcast/cooler/rainy and edging up on evening. But I kind of don't want to know, lol.


----------



## ktgrok

Ok, just checked. It's wet and still drizzling, and I don't know if that impacts anything, but didn't find ANY!!! Crossing my fingers! Now I just need it to dry up enough for me to spray the Spinosad on the side yard (didn't do that last night). I didn't check there, that area was less impacted to begin with, but want to treat it anyway.


----------



## ktgrok

Put down the Spinosad on the side yard, and had some left over so hit the more infested areas of the front yard as well. Was happy to note a DRASTIC reduction in moths compared to last night. Not sure what that means, as i know the caterpillars, not the moths do the damage, but it seems like a good sign!


----------



## Coldsprings

Do the moths look like this? Looks like moths are part of the Army worm life cycle. If so, not seeing as many might def be a good thing.

http://entoweb.okstate.edu/ddd/insects/armyworm.htm


----------



## ktgrok

Yes, they are definitely the army worm moths. Not sure if the ones I've been seeing are new ones laying eggs, or newly hatched out ones, or what. But definitely less! There were SO many last nights and less than a dozen tonight.


----------



## ktgrok

Checked this morning - no caterpillars!!!!!!
Still seeing a few moths, but far fewer. 
I'll probably repeat the Spinosad this coming weekend. The university studies I read made it seem very effective, and also more rain fast than some other options. Plus, I think spraying so late in the evening probably helped. I also hit tons of moths with it while spraying, so I think that helps control the population too. Who knows. But starting to be hopeful!


----------



## ktgrok

I didn't get a photo yet, but I've got stolons!!!! The hell strip, which germinated first, has stolons!!!! Woohoo! That means the other areas shouldn't be far behind


----------



## Coldsprings

Emotional rollercoaster these lawns! &#128541;


----------



## ktgrok

Coldsprings said:


> Emotional rollercoaster these lawns! 😝


Seriously!!!!!


----------



## ktgrok

Sprayed Chelated Iron last night. Today I mowed, taking it down another notch on the manual reel. I am somewhere between 1" and 1.25" now. Also pulled some weeds, more of the Florida Pusley, as the more mature ones may not get killed by the Celsius and it was nice and relatively cool out, so why not. Realizing that I think the armyworms really got their foothold in that stuff - it has nice broad leaves and makes a dense matt, shading them from the sun. They hung out under their, nice and cool and shady, munching up all the grass that was struggling in between the weeds, and on the weeds themselves a little, and then moved out from there. So pulling them up should help keep them from hiding, maybe. Ad get some sun down on the sad bits of bermuda remaining in those patches.

It was interesting to see the bleached tips of the bermuda when I was mowing today, assuming that is from the Celsius? Wouldn't think the iron or low does of fert I applied would do that (0.25lbs N/1K). Mowed it right off.


----------



## TN Hawkeye

ktgrok said:


> Sprayed Chelated Iron last night. Today I mowed, taking it down another notch on the manual reel. I am somewhere between 1" and 1.25" now. Also pulled some weeds, more of the Florida Pusley, as the more mature ones may not get killed by the Celsius and it was nice and relatively cool out, so why not. Realizing that I think the armyworms really got their foothold in that stuff - it has nice broad leaves and makes a dense matt, shading them from the sun. They hung out under their, nice and cool and shady, munching up all the grass that was struggling in between the weeds, and on the weeds themselves a little, and then moved out from there. So pulling them up should help keep them from hiding, maybe. Ad get some sun down on the sad bits of bermuda remaining in those patches.
> 
> It was interesting to see the bleached tips of the bermuda when I was mowing today, assuming that is from the Celsius? Wouldn't think the iron or low does of fert I applied would do that (0.25lbs N/1K). Mowed it right off.


I got yellowing from Celsius as well. Gladly take some yellowing as a trade off for the weeds it got rid off.


----------



## ktgrok

I Figure the lawn just got highlights, LOL.


----------



## ktgrok

And now, just for fun, I think I have fungus. We've been getting a ton of rain, particularly in the evening, so grass is sitting wet all night. Will be picking up disease ex tomorrow I guess.


----------



## Coldsprings

With the caterpillars gone you need something to do, right?


----------



## ktgrok

A fungus among us?


----------



## ktgrok

You can sort of see the darker brown throughout, that's the fungus. Not spots, but just spread throughout.


----------



## ktgrok

Guessing the fungus is leaf spot. Applied Azoxystrobin and Propiconazole today, and will hold off on anymore fertilizer for now. Also did some weeding. Darned Florida Pusley! 
Also need to put down another app of Spinosad or something, but forgot to order it and everywhere local was out, so that will have to wait until Sunday when some gets delivered.


----------



## ktgrok

Went to the local county extension office today for their weekly plant clinic. Rechecked soil ph in the areas that are still bare and ph was 6.5, which should be fine for Bermuda. Interestingly that's significantly higher than the Soil Savvy test (which did include other areas of the yard), which was 5.9. 
They were not much help otherwise...seems I probably know more about fungus than they do, so other than shrugging and saying, "yeah, given all the rain, probably fungus, follow the directions on the label of whatever product you are using" they didn't do anything for me. I think the fungus is better - seeing less spots, but some of the grass is now dry/white. Not sure if that is the progression of the fungus or damage from propiconazole.

Rechecked for armyworms with soapy water test - still not seeing any! So glad. Weeds are dying still, I'm going to have BIG bare patches when they go away. Also, the grass is greening up from recent spoon feeding of fertilizer, or the kelp/humic/fulvic, or both. I'm doing 0.25 N per 1M weekly. Part of me wants to up that, to encourage spread, the other part is scared to do that given the fungal issue. @Greendoc any thoughts on that? I'm using the Gordon's Lawn and Pasture fertilizer, 20-0-0, with some micros in it. Thought of switching it up and using the Miracle Gro all purpose at 1 pound (of dry powder) per 1M, which would be a similar amount of N but add some P and K. My P is already high here in sandy Florida, so don't really need that, but could use the K. Good idea to maybe alternate those? I know they make a lawn one too, but the lawn one is less K from what I remember.

Mowing about every 36-48 hours, at between 1" and 1.25". Only taking the tips off that way. And I do enjoy mowing, although I'm staring to wonder if it's the lawn work that is so relaxing, or if it's just a contact high from the smoke blowing over from my neighbor's favorite "medicine"...seems every time I mow the lawn I get to smell that. I wouldn't mind, except I've only once really gotten to enjoy the "freshly cut grass smell" because his "pain medicine" covers up the smell so much! Need to turn that guy onto edibles instead, lol.

Trying to realize how good the lawn looks, given that it was a salad bar two months ago, and the weed pressure from the neighbor's yard (he apparently is a fan of all forms of weed, lol), the armyworms AND sod webworms which have hit the Central Florida area hard, and now fungus that is in pretty much every yard in the area. Yes, I have some big bare patches, from where the seed/peat kept washing out, but the neighbor lent me a plug cutter I'm going to use once the fungus clears up (assuming I should wait, right?) and I'll cut some plugs from the side yard and put them in those bare spots. And yes, it is thinner than I'd like still (mental note - use more seed than you think you want!) but you can only see that when you are right up on it, from a distance it looks good.

Also still trying to decide what height of cut is best. I LOVE the photos of @ThickLawnThickWife 's lawn, which I know is at least 2inches. But I also want this to SPREAD and thicken up, which everyone here says means mowing low. I'm thinking where I am at is maybe the in between compromise - and it is in the range the University says to mow for common, but again, seeded varieties vary so much, don't know what is best for MY variety. And it is hard to judge when it has looked best, given all the other factors (armyworms, fungus, etc). Maybe I'll contact the university that developed the variety and ask their opinion! I've had great luck reaching out to university professors locally, might as well try it!

Still working on getting the rocks out of the freaking back yard, so we can put down sod. But I also have a deadline with my publisher for mid august, and have only written about 2/3 of the book...so can't justify much time back there working on it. Hoping that I can sod even into the fall if need be? I'm also working on prepping for the school year as I homeschool my kids, so yeah...time is an issue. I may start a separate thread about the backyard, as it is UGLY, has totally different issues, and will be sodded Celebration rather than seeded Maya.


----------



## Coldsprings

That is good news on the soil PH. Had you done any lime applications or was that the existing condition?


----------



## ktgrok

Coldsprings said:


> That is good news on the soil PH. Had you done any lime applications or was that the existing condition?


Nope, no lime. We've got a sandy soil that is usually pretty basic, I think from the limestone we sit on. If anything, I was worried it would be too basic, but years of maple and oak leaf deposits seem to have corrected that issue, if it ever existed. I pulled samples from some different areas, perhaps I got more areas that used to have oak leaves on them last time?


----------



## ktgrok

Pulled more weeds, will post photos of where we are at as soon as they upload from my phone.
Full view of front - doesn't look terrible from that far away, lol. 


Full Side yard view.


Side Yard, you can see the areas damaged by the fungus, or maybe that is some scalping, or both?


Close up of some of the thinner areas in side yard, not sure if that is the progression of the fungus, damage from the propiconazole in this heat, or what. 


Same area - side yard


View of the thin areas by the mulch. Those are filling in now, but if they don't come in well I'll just extend the mulch bed.


Front area of side yard - my property ends at the light post. 


Bare patches in the front. the white sand area was where the seed and peat moss/straw kept washing out. The bare areas that have some darker color are where I picked out the weeds - they were so thick they crowded out the grass. 


Close up of bare patch


Parking Strip/Swale/HellStrip whatever you call it. That brown spot is a pee spot from my dog, lol. Mail box has water issues - may may a bed around it if it doesn't fill in.


Weeds - so many weeds. At least they are dying. 


close up of the bare patches starting to fill in.


Also weeds


Florida Pusley weed - check out that root! 


Close up of biggest bare patch. You can see the deep layer of peat and straw below it, where it kept washing out.I've given up seeding it, will put some plugs in soon, from the side yard. But you can see it is starting to fill in. I did put in there a sort of plug from edging around the water meter, and it took. Also putting sprigs from edging there now.


----------



## ktgrok

went back and labeled and organized all the photos in the post before this, if you missed it. Seeded on June 14th, photos taken July 30th.

And adding this photo to show why it is worth the work!


----------



## Coldsprings

That is the biggest and most colorful caterpillar I have ever seen!


----------



## Redtwin

Coldsprings said:


> That is the biggest and most colorful caterpillar I have ever seen!


 :lol: I love the lawnmower, too!


----------



## ktgrok

Coldsprings said:


> That is the biggest and most colorful caterpillar I have ever seen!


Funny enough, her nickname is "bug". As in "baby bug" or "Rosie-bug". So she got a bit upset when I said I was getting rid of the bugs in the grass, lol! Had to explain I didn't mean her!


----------



## ktgrok

New weed fun! (not)
Some of what I thought was crabgrass in my yard is dying after the Celsius application, but I have other sections that are now obviously something else and the celsius didn't phase it. It's spreading, and I need to kill it. Thinking goosegrass or maybe torpedo grass? I have quinclorac and celsius on hand, or could paint it with roundup if that's the better option. Or both. The neighbor does have doeveweed, but this looks different, like fatter common bermuda (which I also have a ton of, and have just decided to embrace - if you could see the other yards in the neighborhood, you'd understand that a 100 percent bermuda yard, even of different types of common, would be dominating).

Also have a ton of Florida Pusley that is dying, with grass slowly starting to move into the areas it was, but a few patches that are either new or didn't die. Going to have to pull or spot spray or both. Thinking I'll mix up one gallon of Celsius and spot spray those plus some other weeds, maybe this weekend. And treat whatever the weird grass thing is.

Oh, and I mowed today - meant to do it last night but it poured all night. I raised the blade, as the lower height looked bad with all the tree roots, uneven areas, etc. If we end up staying in this house I will need to level, but I'm praying we can move within a year, and for resale a slightly higher cut of fairly nice bermuda will still go a long way, especially in a neighborhood dominated by bahia and weeds.

Also having second thoughts about sodding Celebration Bermuda in the back. I LOVE the way bermuda feels under the foot compared to St. Augustine, but man, the pee spots! My dogs are usually in the back but I was working with one out front and she peed on the new grass and just that one time left a huge brown spot. (granted, she really had to go, but still!). I don't remember seeing pee spots like that when I've had St. Augustine grass. So maybe St. Augustine would be better for the back, since I will have three 70 pound dogs peeing back there?


----------



## ktgrok

After reading labels and examining the lawn I went ahead and ordered some Dismiss from Seedworld. Even paying for 2 day priority mail it was the cheapest place. I know some say it is damaging in hot weather, but the label doesn't give any warnings, and common bermuda is supposed to be the most tolerant to it, so I think I'll try it, spraying in the evening to be careful.


----------



## Coldsprings

In this case it makes sense to DISMISS the warnings of others. &#128541;


----------



## ktgrok

Coldsprings said:


> In this case it makes sense to DISMISS the warnings of others. 😝


Lol. 
Seriously though, it is labeled for all my problem weeds, including goosegrass, cylindrical sedge, globe sedge, florida pusley, and purslane. Makes sense to try it.


----------



## Redtwin

I sprayed mine in the evening and had no damage to 419 or common. I used .25oz/K which is just under the high dose.


----------



## ktgrok

Redtwin said:


> I sprayed mine in the evening and had no damage to 419 or common. I used .25oz/K which is just under the high dose.


Thats exactly the rate I was planning on.


----------



## ktgrok

Put all my applications, etc into a spreadsheet. Because I am behind on my writing deadline and procrastinating big time, lol.Also, looking at this I realized it has only been a week since I sprayed Celsius! I thought it was two weeks...need to be more patient!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KDQGSxiqo_qrMXIsZopXSqfV2Mid4b_rLYxsyWx_NHM/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## cousineau18

ktgrok said:


> New weed fun! (not)
> Some of what I thought was crabgrass in my yard is dying after the Celsius application, but I have other sections that are now obviously something else and the celsius didn't phase it. It's spreading, and I need to kill it. Thinking goosegrass or maybe torpedo grass? I have quinclorac and celsius on hand, or could paint it with roundup if that's the better option. Or both. The neighbor does have doeveweed, but this looks different, like fatter common bermuda (which I also have a ton of, and have just decided to embrace - if you could see the other yards in the neighborhood, you'd understand that a 100 percent bermuda yard, even of different types of common, would be dominating).
> 
> Also have a ton of Florida Pusley that is dying, with grass slowly starting to move into the areas it was, but a few patches that are either new or didn't die. Going to have to pull or spot spray or both. Thinking I'll mix up one gallon of Celsius and spot spray those plus some other weeds, maybe this weekend. And treat whatever the weird grass thing is.
> 
> Oh, and I mowed today - meant to do it last night but it poured all night. I raised the blade, as the lower height looked bad with all the tree roots, uneven areas, etc. If we end up staying in this house I will need to level, but I'm praying we can move within a year, and for resale a slightly higher cut of fairly nice bermuda will still go a long way, especially in a neighborhood dominated by bahia and weeds.
> 
> Also having second thoughts about sodding Celebration Bermuda in the back. I LOVE the way bermuda feels under the foot compared to St. Augustine, but man, the pee spots! My dogs are usually in the back but I was working with one out front and she peed on the new grass and just that one time left a huge brown spot. (granted, she really had to go, but still!). I don't remember seeing pee spots like that when I've had St. Augustine grass. So maybe St. Augustine would be better for the back, since I will have three 70 pound dogs peeing back there?


Quick question on your celcius app. How long after you sprayed did you notice the crabgrass dying off?


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## ktgrok

I'm not quite sure - a few days at least before it started looking a bit rough. it's still not totally dead, but it's turning funny colors and not looking great, lol.


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## cousineau18

ktgrok said:


> I'm not quite sure - a few days at least before it started looking a bit rough. it's still not totally dead, but it's turning funny colors and not looking great, lol.


good deal, thanks.


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## Coldsprings

@ktgrok Fyi the spreadsheet isn't publicly accessible. I'm assuming you intended for it to be. Its funny bc all of my projects end up in a spreadsheet but I am not quite sure how this lawn project hasn't. I keep looking back at my journal thread to recall application dates so a spreadsheet is a no brainer. Thanks for the idea!


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## ktgrok

So after watching a video on large area grow in of Bermuda by @thegrassfactor (and a few hours of his lawn and garden show, etc) I contacted him for some advice. Going to up the fertilizer, and also give T-nex a try, which I was able to purchase via the marketplace here. Hoping to push the roots and stolons and see what happens. Which means I'll be putting down another app of the 20-0-0 today, but I want to try to get over to the Sunniland retail location near me and see about getting some soluble potassium to mix in first. 
I may also try mixing things up at some point and do some of the new Xgrn 8-1-8 granular monthly, while continuing to spoon feed liquid. That way I get some extra organic matter into my sandy soil to help hold the nutrients. Tried to order some today from LCN but they've got it set up so that it automatically sends it via priority mail at a cost of over $100 - I'm assuming that is some kind of bug in the system.


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## Coldsprings

Very interested in how the TNEX works for you so early in the game. It makes sense though. I thought I would share this picture of the backyard of a house we are flipping to remind you how bad bahia sucks. This is about 2 weeks of growth during which time it got no water.


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## ktgrok

ugh! thank you, lol. Yeah, it's fine from a distance while driving by, but a PIA to mow and worse to use the trimmer on. And NOT good for kids to play on. I will say, the only lawns in my area that haven't had any fungal issues are the bahia, but i figure that's cause even the fungus doesn't like the stuff, lol.


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## ktgrok

Ok, so after reading this, I am DEFINITELY picking up some potassium. I've been putting it off as it's hard to find, only applied it once and in a form that wasn't ideal. But reading this, I definitely need to get on it. I ordered some Xgrn today that is 8-1-8, (already have plenty of phosphorous) and am going to try to get to the Sunniland store today to see what I find. If not today, tomorrow for sure.
"Potassium is second only to N in the amounts required to sustain turfgrass quality and growth. "
https://journals.ashs.org/horttech/view/journals/horttech/23/3/article-p347.xml


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## JWAY

ktgrok said:


> New weed fun! (not)
> Some of what I thought was crabgrass in my yard is dying after the Celsius application, but I have other sections that are now obviously something else and the celsius didn't phase it. It's spreading, and I need to kill it. Thinking goosegrass or maybe torpedo grass? I have quinclorac and celsius on hand, or could paint it with roundup if that's the better option. Or both. The neighbor does have doeveweed, but this looks different, like fatter common bermuda (which I also have a ton of, and have just decided to embrace - if you could see the other yards in the neighborhood, you'd understand that a 100 percent bermuda yard, even of different types of common, would be dominating).
> 
> Also have a ton of Florida Pusley that is dying, with grass slowly starting to move into the areas it was, but a few patches that are either new or didn't die. Going to have to pull or spot spray or both. Thinking I'll mix up one gallon of Celsius and spot spray those plus some other weeds, maybe this weekend. And treat whatever the weird grass thing is.
> 
> Oh, and I mowed today - meant to do it last night but it poured all night. I raised the blade, as the lower height looked bad with all the tree roots, uneven areas, etc. If we end up staying in this house I will need to level, but I'm praying we can move within a year, and for resale a slightly higher cut of fairly nice bermuda will still go a long way, especially in a neighborhood dominated by bahia and weeds.
> 
> Also having second thoughts about sodding Celebration Bermuda in the back. I LOVE the way bermuda feels under the foot compared to St. Augustine, but man, the pee spots! My dogs are usually in the back but I was working with one out front and she peed on the new grass and just that one time left a huge brown spot. (granted, she really had to go, but still!). I don't remember seeing pee spots like that when I've had St. Augustine grass. So maybe St. Augustine would be better for the back, since I will have three 70 pound dogs peeing back there?


@ktgrok 
In case you haven't seen this topic on doggy wee wee
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12208&p=196720#p196720


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## Symbiont01

@ktgrok Sulfentrazone is great stuff. I mean, its got an incredibly fast burn down time and is a great kicker to a three way herbicide for very lethal results (prostrate spurge, my nemesis, doesnt stand a chance). It is HOT though, so be sure not to use any surfactants with it when its over 80 (or will get over 80) and you may see some turf burn when it gets over 90 when you have sprayed when it was under 85. But, if you dont mind it dinging you grass a little in high temps, its a great herbicide, especially for yellow nutsedge. I make up a spray bottle with 1/4 teaspoon of sulfentrazone (39.6%) in a quart of water and spray that nutsedge and it gets smoked fast...its yellow the next day and brown a day later. I buy generic sulfentrazone instead of Dismiss because its cheaper, but comes at the same concentration.


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## ktgrok

Didn't make it to Sunniland yesterday, but did check and they have 0-0-62 at the location a bit farther from me about 35 minutes. Going to get up there today - it's a 50lb bag for $20, so worth the drive.


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## ktgrok

@ktgrok 
In case you haven't seen this topic on doggy wee wee
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12208&p=196720#p196720
[/quote]

LOL, that was my thread


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## ktgrok

Symbiont01 said:


> @ktgrok Sulfentrazone is great stuff. I mean, its got an incredibly fast burn down time and is a great kicker to a three way herbicide for very lethal results (prostrate spurge, my nemesis, doesnt stand a chance). It is HOT though, so be sure not to use any surfactants with it when its over 80 (or will get over 80) and you may see some turf burn when it gets over 90 when you have sprayed when it was under 85. But, if you dont mind it dinging you grass a little in high temps, its a great herbicide, especially for yellow nutsedge. I make up a spray bottle with 1/4 teaspoon of sulfentrazone (39.6%) in a quart of water and spray that nutsedge and it gets smoked fast...its yellow the next day and brown a day later. I buy generic sulfentrazone instead of Dismiss because its cheaper, but comes at the same concentration.


I didn't use a surfactant, and I'm seeing a bit of maybe some frosting of the grass tips, but otherwise grass looks like it handled it okay. And the new weeds are already dying, so yay!


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## ktgrok

Made a trip to the Sunniland Wholesale Store yesterday - what a neat experience! I had to go into the manufacturing office to figure out where the storefront was...it was back around behind the warehouses and down a driveway, to a different warehouse, but I found it. Basically just an office inside a warehouse, not an actual store. But it turns out they not only have their regular fertilizer products (at wholesale prices!) but also lots of other stuff, including Quali-pro products like herbicides, etc. Again, all at wholesale prices! And the guy there said that anything I want that they don't have they can probably get within a day or two - just ask. They also have a new line of liquid fertilizers, but I didn't get a chance to really explore that yet.


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## ktgrok

Tried to put down PGR today but the neighbors kept trying to talk to me and got me all distracted and I messed up. So I did the math and I think I put down basically half of what I'd planned to do, rate wise, on the front and side, and a full app on the swale. 
So front and side yards each got 0.1 oz T-Nex, 0.1 lbs N, and 0.3lbs K, per thousand square feet
Swale got 0.2 oz T-Nex, 0.2lbs N, and 0.6lbs K, per thousand square feet. 
So, yeah...not quite the plan, but not bad distribution considering I was thinking on the fly of how to distribute what was in the tank as evenly as possible, once I'd messed up.

My hope is that the PGR encourages rhizomes and a healthier grass with more dense structure. But since only one section got the full dose, we shall see.


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## ktgrok

Holy crap what a difference a day can make! Not sure if it was the little bit of ammonium sulfate I put down last night (0.1 lbs per 1,000) or the potassium (0.3lbs per thousand) or just the total amount of nitrogen this week being more (0.6lbs total in the past week vs 0.25lbs per thousand previous weeks) or what. I can't imagine the PGR is doing anything this quickly at such a low dose (0.1 oz/thousand). Or maybe it's just maturing, but it looks so much better this evening than yesterday! Like, it looks like real, mature grass instead of spindly seedlings. It was thin and sad looking, and now the actual grass blades are just more robust. Seriously, it went from looking depressed to like it is ready to party. THRILLED. I had a super crappy week and NEEDED this!


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## Coldsprings

It means nothing without pictures. &#128518;


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## ktgrok

Coldsprings said:


> It means nothing without pictures. 😆


Ugh, I know, pics or it didn't happen, right?
Promise, tomorrow. Not sure the difference will be as visible in photos, but I'll try. It's just so much happier, for lack of a better description.


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## ktgrok

So, not sure you can see a difference in the photos, but you can in real life. 
Today is about 50 something days after seeding.


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## LawnRat

Looking good @ktgrok!


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## Chocolate Lab

ktgrok said:


> Holy crap what a difference a day can make! Not sure if it was the little bit of ammonium sulfate I put down last night (0.1 lbs per 1,000) or the potassium (0.3lbs per thousand) or just the total amount of nitrogen this week being more (0.6lbs total in the past week vs 0.25lbs per thousand previous weeks) or what. I can't imagine the PGR is doing anything this quickly at such a low dose (0.1 oz/thousand). Or maybe it's just maturing, but it looks so much better this evening than yesterday! Like, it looks like real, mature grass instead of spindly seedlings. It was thin and sad looking, and now the actual grass blades are just more robust. Seriously, it went from looking depressed to like it is ready to party. THRILLED. I had a super crappy week and NEEDED this!


 :thumbup:

Maybe we're learning that Maya just takes a little longer to thicken up than some varieties.

Have you considered putting down even more nitrogen now that it's maturing a little?

Also. I know you've answered this, but could a reel mower be in your future? Lower mowing would increase the density I'm sure. Maybe even just a manual reel right now? Those things are always all over Craigslist or Facebook for cheap.


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## ktgrok

Chocolate Lab said:


> ktgrok said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy crap what a difference a day can make! Not sure if it was the little bit of ammonium sulfate I put down last night (0.1 lbs per 1,000) or the potassium (0.3lbs per thousand) or just the total amount of nitrogen this week being more (0.6lbs total in the past week vs 0.25lbs per thousand previous weeks) or what. I can't imagine the PGR is doing anything this quickly at such a low dose (0.1 oz/thousand). Or maybe it's just maturing, but it looks so much better this evening than yesterday! Like, it looks like real, mature grass instead of spindly seedlings. It was thin and sad looking, and now the actual grass blades are just more robust. Seriously, it went from looking depressed to like it is ready to party. THRILLED. I had a super crappy week and NEEDED this!
> 
> 
> 
> :thumbup:
> 
> Maybe we're learning that Maya just takes a little longer to thicken up than some varieties.
> 
> Have you considered putting down even more nitrogen now that it's maturing a little?
> 
> Also. I know you've answered this, but could a reel mower be in your future? Lower mowing would increase the density I'm sure. Maybe even just a manual reel right now? Those things are always all over Craigslist or Facebook for cheap.
Click to expand...

That is definitely a possibility, that it just takes a while. It also I think may grow more with rhizomes than stolons compared to the common, so less obvious? 
I'm actually using a manual reel. I was trying to mow a setting lower but when it was so scraggly looking that seemed to stunt it a bit, I think there wasn't enough leaf surface for photosynthesis or it wasn't healthy enough to handle it or something. Now that it is really leafing out I think I will try again. Other issue is my lawn is NOT level. I did level before putting down seed but then the rains hit hard, like monsoons, for a few days right after I put down seed and un-leveled it :roll: I also have exposed roots from the Maple tree, which are hidden if the grass is longer but visible if I go down another notch. Thinking I may go down another notch next mowing, and keep it low for a bit despite looking funky, to encourage thicker growth and then can always raise it back up for visual appeal/hiding roots later on.

I'm struggling to get it to grow in a few places, not sure if due to shade in those spots (along house and fence) or due to fact that water tends to sit there when it rains hard (nearly daily) so it gets water logged, or if the soil is compacted a bit there comparatively from that standing water. I put down a VERY healthy dose of some humic/kelp/mycorhyzai/liquid compost stuff today...actual put that stuff plus a packet of miracle grow all purpose plant food into a gallon watering can and hit those areas (filled it twice total for the various areas). Might help. Might not. Worst case I can expand the mulch bed on the side of the house, and add one near the fence. Probably going to expand the mulch bed around the maple tree as well but waiting as that area got a later start due to wash out, so may still thicken up, and we also may shell out the money to have our trees trimmed...guy is mostly going to do the back oaks but said he would thin out that maple as well so that may be enough. The guy is a magician with trees - he did the neighbors giant oaks and it was a night and day difference regarding sunlight, so I'll let him do his work and then see what happens. Let the grass find it's own level as Allyn Hane says.

I REALLY want to hit it with more nitrogen and potassium, but not sure when I can, and how much? I've done such small amounts lately I'm not sure how to go from here. Timeline for the last doses of nitrogen, all foliar sprays, are:
8/3 0.25lbs per 1K (Gordon's 20-0-0 with micronutrients, half is Urea and the rest Ammoniacal and Nitrate forms)
8/7 0.3lbs per 1K (Gordon's 20-0-0 with micronutrients)
8/8 0.1lbs per 1K (ammonium sulfate)

Last iron was 8/4, the Lawnstar 6% chelated iron, at 1.5oz per 1K

I'd love to put down a bit more nitrogen and the FEature that I just got later tonight. My husband has been out of town for a week and gets home tomorrow, so would love to give it an extra burst to look good when he comes home. Think I could?


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## ktgrok

It's the worlds saddest domination line, but it's there.


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## Chocolate Lab

ktgrok said:


> I REALLY want to hit it with more nitrogen and potassium, but not sure when I can, and how much? I've done such small amounts lately I'm not sure how to go from here. Timeline for the last doses of nitrogen, all foliar sprays, are:
> 8/3 0.25lbs per 1K (Gordon's 20-0-0 with micronutrients, half is Urea and the rest Ammoniacal and Nitrate forms)
> 8/7 0.3lbs per 1K (Gordon's 20-0-0 with micronutrients)
> 8/8 0.1lbs per 1K (ammonium sulfate)
> 
> Last iron was 8/4, the Lawnstar 6% chelated iron, at 1.5oz per 1K
> 
> I'd love to put down a bit more nitrogen and the FEature that I just got later tonight. My husband has been out of town for a week and gets home tomorrow, so would love to give it an extra burst to look good when he comes home. Think I could?


I wish others would chime in because it sounds to me like you're doing everything right. Maybe it could take more, though? Maybe push the ammonium sulfate until you actually see some signs of stress?

I was going to say that with all the rain and your sandy soil, the nutrients wash away much faster than with my dry clay soil so you can push it more, but you're doing a lot of that with foliar apps, so I'd think the nitrogen is definitely being taken up by the plant. I haven't done foliar feeding of my lawn yet, but when I've done it on other plants over the years it's worked amazingly well.

Anyone?


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## ktgrok

So, I didn't put it down that night, due to life, but I did yesterday. So 0.1lb N on 8/8 and then again on 8/12. Also did the 0.3lbs potassium again plus 1oz Feature per 1 tho usand soft. And threw in some of the Garden Safe Fungicide from Southern Ag as that does seem to be keeping the fungus at bay despite the incredible humidity. (it is 90% humidity right now!)
And it looks AWESOME today!!!!

Also, I have some thin areas where the ground is compacted a bit (as much as sand can be) from water puddling there. The other day I put down the kelp/humic/microrhyzae stuff, a healthy amount mixed in a watering can with a packet of miracle grow plant food, and then the next day applied a mix of molasses and shampoo at 3oz each per thousand, but heavier in those spots. And they are DEFINITELY doing better - much better. Grass got greener and "plumper" rather than pale and spindly. More blades coming in. Big difference. So, no idea what did it - was it from relieving compaction so the water isn't pooling there as much or was it something in the miracle gro - either the extra potassium or the phosphorus? It has gotten plenty of nitrogen, so not that. Who knows, but it worked. Might repeat the miracle gro feeding weekly in those areas


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## Chocolate Lab

> kelp/humic/microrhyzae


I guess some of this is a little controversial with the conventional/non-organic types, but I've had great luck with this kind of stuff on other plants over the years. The molasses, too. Big fan of the organics.

It's looking great now. Amazing how fast things can perk up when everything hits right.


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## ktgrok

Chocolate Lab said:


> kelp/humic/microrhyzae
> 
> 
> 
> I guess some of this is a little controversial with the conventional/non-organic types, but I've had great luck with this kind of stuff on other plants over the years. The molasses, too. Big fan of the organics.
> 
> It's looking great now. Amazing how fast things can perk up when everything hits right.
Click to expand...

I figure it can't hurt, and kelp has been used by nurseries for years to stimulate root growth, and the humic has been used for years to help with soil structure, so was worth a shot. The molasses was more for the areas where I killed a ton of weeds with the idea it would help with the breakdown of the dead material. And the soap to help the water penetrate the soil instead of sitting on top. My sand tens to be pretty weird about that. And I had some shampoo I didn't like so figured might as well get some use from it. Between the apple scented shampoo and the molasses and the pro-biotic fungicide I add to everything that has a yeasty smell the kids said the lawn smelled like thanksgiving, lol.

I'm sure stuff like the Next De-thatch and liquid aeration are great, but reading the label they are humic, soap, molasses, bacteria...I had molasses and soap already, I had humic, and the fungicide is a probiotic and the kelp product had bacteria and beneficial mycorhyzae so seemed close enough.


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## ktgrok

Noticed a few suspicious looking areas and poured some soapy water on them. Found one small caterpillar, either a young army worm or a sod webworm. Not sure which. Might have seen a second but I lost track of the first so not sure, lol. 
Checked my records and it has been about 2 weeks since I applied the last round of Spinosad. Going to do it again tomorrow. I also put down Grub Ex a bit ago, which has supposedly a residual action for prevention, but with all our heavy rain I'm not sure anything has much residual in the soil, not sure about the plant itself. May try to find some imidacloprid as well. At least I caught it early this time, just some thinned out areas with brown/dry blades that sort of look like drought stress....except this time I KNEW it wasn't that since it has been raining daily, lol.

Also saw what looked like a mound from a mole cricket, and maybe a second one. I have Bifentrhin so may mix that with the Spinosad, or see if mole crickets are killed by imidacloprid, if I get that.


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## ktgrok

So I just mowed and it had been 2 days and barely took anything off. Was stumped and then realized it was probably the Propiconazole stunting it a bit. Hate what that stuff does to the grass, but letting the fungus continue wasn't an option. Putting down Disease Ex after dinner tonight as well. Trying to remember Matt Martin saying that with Bermuda it is all about 'Burn and Bounce Back". The medicine dings it but it will come back.

Saw a big ant carrying a dead caterpillar, possibly sod web worm? Also seeing the webworm moths in the yard. Put down dylox yesterday which hopefully helps, and if the grubs and mole crickets are gone maybe the mole will leave.


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## ktgrok

Still dealing with disease, and also realized I have areas dealing with drought stress. Going to correct that. 
And then, because why not, I took it down from 2" to between 0.75 and 1" with the manual reel. That was a workout!
I'd have gone lower but to do that you actually have to take the wheels off and replace them and that was not something i Had time for with a storm rolling in. Going to have my husband do that for me maybe tomorrow, then drop down a bit more and then go back and maintain at 1" I think.


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## Coldsprings

I somehow havent been getting notifications for your posts so I am playing catch up today. Lawn is looking nice! Did you ever notice any change after your PGR application?


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## ktgrok

Coldsprings said:


> I somehow havent been getting notifications for your posts so I am playing catch up today. Lawn is looking nice! Did you ever notice any change after your PGR application?


Definitely noticed a big difference! Grass was healthier, looked more mature, more blades, etc. I'm completely annoyed with myself for letting it come out of regulation. When I did it very shortly thereafter came down with leaf spot, and I let the height get too high, etc. So now I'm dealing with fungus and just took down the height and hoping to be able to apply again soon.


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## ktgrok

Finished the scalping project today. Lowered the manual reel as far as it could go and barely managed to get across the parking strip. The grass was wet which didn't help, but mostly it was actually hitting dirt - and that's the most level part of my yard. So I finished that area and then raised it a bit to do the rest of the yard. Still a huge amount of effort to push it, but it was now scalping and isn't I hadn't raised it I would have been basically re-grading the ground. I did double cut, and between yesterday and today filled my giant trashcan with clippings. I can't believe how fast the yard dried today after watering -i'm actually getting water down to the soil and the leaves are drying, so I'm really glad I did this - especially with a hurricane coming in a few days! Going to get lots of rain and this way it won't sit wet and rotting with fungus.

I'm also thinking this is a good time to thrown down a little bit of sand along the edge of the sidewalk in the spots where the soil level is way below the sidewalk level. It makes mowing a huge pain and although I'm not going to totally fix it right now I can at least get it a bit better without much work given it's scalped so low.

I also need to fix at least one sprinkler head that is spraying weird, and really ought to move another and add one more. Not sure that's going to happen right now, but in the mean time I'm using a small sprinkler on a hose to get the dryer spots. Seems what I was attributing to possible shade or insect issues is just dry spots.

Now to decide if I should put down some fertilizer. Standard wisdom is not to push N or growth in general with leaf spot, but it's such a great time to do it and really get the granular onto the ground. So may do a 1/2 pound of N with 8-1-8 XGRN or something, not sure yet.
In good news, I got the mole with the trap. In bad news, there is another mole on the other side of the driveway, he didn't make it far onto the property and is coming from the neighbor's yard, so I'm hoping he just turns around and goes back. I will put down repellant tomorrow, and will grab another sonic spike thing for that side. I also set up the trap over there just in case.


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## Coldsprings

That looks really good but I think you will really be pleased in a day or two when it starts to green back up from the scalp!


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## ktgrok

Ok, so it still looks funky up close between the scalping and the fungus, but from across the street it looks pretty good, lol! No wonder the neighbors keep complimenting me - up close I can see all the brown and the thin spots and the weeds, but they don't see that. This was taken last night just before the winds picked up from Dorian (hence the boarded up windows). We were having an impromptu block party to share snacks and all the kids played in my yard the whole time 
Oh, and that area of lawn that is longer in the bottom right is my neighbors - it's mostly crabgrass and nutsedge there.


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## ktgrok

This is what I'm up against, and why I am so eager to be able to apply pre-emergent once the bermuda finishes filling in. These are photos of my neighbor's yard, the one that butts up agains my yard. Across the street is just as bad, one being a random assortment of weeds and the other 80% nutsedge. 
Again - these photos are NOT my yard! Just showing why I'm having such a hard time with weeds.


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## ktgrok

90 days after seeding. Just mowed it - needs to be edged.


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## Coldsprings

Those pics of weeds had me worried for you! Glad its not your problem. Your lawn is looking pretty solid. How much more growing season to you think you have left down there?


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## ktgrok

Not sure - it's definitely still growing though. Had slowed down a bit due to the dry weather I think, but we got a sprinkle of rain and it grew half an inch in an hour I think, lol. No bare spots left at all, just thin spots. The worst area is near the tree, I think it just sucks up too much water. I will probably just give in and extend the mulch bed to the sidewalk and be done with it.


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## ktgrok

This is the area that used to have those big bare areas - definitely no bare spots now! The brown area there was not getting enough water, but otherwise doing well.


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## ktgrok

Struggling to keep the bed knife to reel alignment correct on the manual reel, and mowed with the rotary a few times. Accidentally scalped it fairly good the day before Halloween - so no domination there. Spent time trying to get the manual reel back in order today and mowed again. Definitely better cut, but still having issues. I think part of it is that it is just too light, and in some places actually loses traction for a second or so, etc.

Looks like it is time for a gas powered reel. 
(thin area in bottom left is where the maple tree is - going to just enlarge the mulch bed around it when it cools off a bit. Grass doesn't want to grow there)


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## ktgrok

Oh, in other news I saw a bunch of moths today when mowing, and found an army worm. Sprayed what I had on hand - bifenthrin and imidacloprid - and ordered some more Spinosad that I'll pick up at Tractor Supply tomorrow.

In better news, I got to tour the Sunniland fertilizer plant yesterday with some fellow lawn care enthusiasts - and got a bag of this stuff right off the production line.


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## AtomskACS

It's been 3 years. How's that lawn doing??


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