# Looking for opinions on best seed type for 1/2" HOC in the Pacific Northwest.



## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

New guy here. Found this Forum a few months ago and it's great! I'm in Vancouver B.C. Canada. I've been lawn obsessed for about 3 years now. My lawn looks great, but it has quite a few different types of grass so it looks splotchy and inconsistent colorwise. I think the only solution is a full reno so I am starting to plan one for late summer. I love some of the very old lawns in the old neighbourhoods of Vancouver. Very fine bladed and consistent color. I have a Caltrimmer that will cut down to about 5/8" 
before the bed knife starts to dig in sometimes, but I'm going to hopefully switch to a Swardman Electra soon. I'll be asking lots of questions over the next few months as this sure seems like the best place for real world info about trying to accomplish what I'm after.
I'll start with grass types. For the last 1 1/2 yrs I have tried overseeding with a Fine Fescue/Colonial Highland Bent Grass blend. I've had some success with this but I feel like it will never completely overtake the sod blend of mostly PRG and KBG that we laid down before I got obsessed with my lawn. 
Is a FF and Colonial Bent the right choice for our mild wet climate? I'm only about 10 miles away fro the ocean. We only get snow once or twice a year. I have an irrigation system that works well but needs a bit of tweaking and I have a very level flat lawn. I've top dressed 4 times in the past 1 1/2 yrs with sand and it's really stating to firm up nicely. 
I'm fortunate to have a local turf products supplier that has many years of greens keeping experience and is happy to come by and offer his advice and give me great deals on all the products I need.
I'm nervous about the reno (my wife thinks I'm nuts.). I love spending time working on the lawn so if I plan things right and with a little luck I'm sure I can succeed. 
Thanks in advance,
Dale


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

Here's a couple pics that show the various shades of grass


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## DTCC_Turf (May 26, 2018)

I'd go with the fine fescue/colonial bent. Fine fescue doesn't need a lot of water or fertilizer.


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## DTCC_Turf (May 26, 2018)

Here's a great example:
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3240


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## Ecks from Tex (Apr 26, 2018)

I know absolutely nothing about cool season grass and have nothing to contribute other than to tell you that I'm pretty dang jealous of that backyard :lol: Good luck dude. The lawn definitely has a mix but it still looks awesome and that view .....wow. Plus Vancouver is 10/10.


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

DTCC_Turf said:


> Here's a great example:
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3240


LOL, I remember George's lawn from another forum. That was my inspiration for the 
Colonial/Fescue blend. He also got me drooling over a Dennis.


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

Ecks from Tex said:


> I know absolutely nothing about cool season grass and have nothing to contribute other than to tell you that I'm pretty dang jealous of that backyard :lol: Good luck dude. The lawn definitely has a mix but it still looks awesome and that view .....wow. Plus Vancouver is 10/10.


Thank You, Ecks. We are very fortunate to have such a beautiful location.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

What about bent and ryegrass?


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

g-man said:


> What about bent and ryegrass?


Is ryegrass a very fine blade similar to the bent?


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

perenial rye grass is very thin


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## Rule11 (May 5, 2018)

This is what I use and it is very good. Greater Seattle area.


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## Rule11 (May 5, 2018)




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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

Rule11 said:


>


Rule11, very nice! Where did you purchase that blend?


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

Rule11 said:


> This is what I use and it is very good. Greater Seattle area.


Pangea glr is an excellent cultivar! I have a monostand of it


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## Rule11 (May 5, 2018)

Inside source, but the lable says it all Puget Sound Specialties. You could do a search to see if they have a web site or contact info. That's the best I can offer at the moment.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Turfguy93 said:


> Pangea glr is an excellent cultivar! I have a monostand of it


I would like to see how it looks on a monostand.


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

Rule11 said:


> Inside source, but the lable says it all Puget Sound Specialties. You could do a search to see if they have a web site or contact info. That's the best I can offer at the moment.


Not much luck with Puget Sound Specialties but I did find that VIP 3 blend at Seedland for $159 
for 50 lbs. 
Would PRG have a darker green color than Fine Fescue?


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## Rule11 (May 5, 2018)

I believe it's a touch darker but not positive. Not a bad deal for the 159. It germinates very quick and is durable and soft. You will love that. But that fine fescue looks great too.


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## PNW_George (May 28, 2018)

Hi Shindoman,

I believe we exchanged some comments on another forum some time ago.

Attempting to get a consistent color while allowing PR in your stand is a losing proposition. Not only is it a coarser grass, it tends to have a much darker green color. It took me a couple years to phase out all my PR and I still have a handful of blotches that crop up.

The advantage of PR in my mind is the ability to control Poa. It is a hardier grass and there are a number of pre and post herbicides available to keep it under control. I have not found an effective poa treatment that doesn't hurt either the colonial bentgrass or the fine fescue and I am not confident there are any available that would work on a pure fine fescue blend.

I have not used any herbicides on my lawn in 3 or four years and while in previous years I would hand pull some and spot treat other poa patches with round up, this year I am letting it ride. The poa is there but it actually blends well with the lighter color FF. Now that my FF is more established and I can cut my watering down, I am curious too see if the poa will take a hit and the FF will fill in the patches.

PR might be a great option, I would love to follow your progress if you decide to go that route. Not that I will change but I'm getting bored and always welcome a new challenge and might not be able to help myself.

I love PR but compared to FF it is a much wider blade. You cut PR and it has a flat tip. You cut FF and it still looks like a pointed blade. A healthy, mature FF stand cut short looks like a thick, finely weaved carpet. The other day the FedEx delivery man complimented me on my lawn and asked me if it was real. I first thought, yes I use a reel mower, but that is not what he meant.

Looking forward to your decision; either option will be great.

Regards,

George


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

g-man said:


> Turfguy93 said:
> 
> 
> > Pangea glr is an excellent cultivar! I have a monostand of it
> ...


I'll take a picture of it tomorrow afternoon and post it


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

PNW_George said:


> Hi Shindoman,
> 
> I believe we exchanged some comments on another forum some time ago.
> 
> ...


I'm not real sure what your climate is like but if it's cool and wet poa will make a darn good turf. The tightest most upright turf I've ever seen was poa. It's disease resistance may be very poor but when it's good it's really freaking good


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## PNW_George (May 28, 2018)

Turfguy93, in the PNW, after 10 years, all the golf course greens become poa. Even Chambers bay that started with unique FF tee thru green is converting to poa greens now. I think they have converted a half dozen so far. The poa greens are perennial though, not annual. If the poa in my yard becomes perennial I will be OK with that.

It is the seed heads that can look bad, not the grass itself.

Regards,


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## Rule11 (May 5, 2018)

PNW_George said:


> Turfguy93, in the PNW, after 10 years, all the golf course greens become poa. Even Chambers bay that started with unique FF tee thru green is converting to poa greens now. I think they have converted a half dozen so far. The poa greens are perennial though, not annual. If the poa in my yard becomes perennial I will be OK with that.
> 
> It is the seed heads that can look bad, not the grass itself.
> 
> Regards,


That is a great point! It is those dreaded seed heads that ruin the look. That is what I am just starting the battle. Tenacity the other day for the first time. So here we go


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

George, you are right there seem to be very few herbicides to battle the Poa that are safe for bent and FF. Did you ever try Xonerate? I believe I remember you talking about trying it out. Poa is always a part of the equation around here. And some of the nicer golf courses are Poa. 
That soft fine look of the FF I see in some of the old neighbourhoods in Vancouver looks amazing. 
A lot of good useful info from everyone here on TLF. Glad I found it.


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

Rule11 said:


> PNW_George said:
> 
> 
> > Turfguy93, in the PNW, after 10 years, all the golf course greens become poa. Even Chambers bay that started with unique FF tee thru green is converting to poa greens now. I think they have converted a half dozen so far. The poa greens are perennial though, not annual. If the poa in my yard becomes perennial I will be OK with that.
> ...


Tenacity is not safe for FF or bent. Good Luck.


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

George, what blend of FF and Colonial do you have and where did you source the seed?
Thanks


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## PNW_George (May 28, 2018)

Shindoman said:


> George, what blend of FF and Colonial do you have and where did you source the seed?
> Thanks


I have been getting my seed from Seed Research of Oregon. They keep changing what they offer so I have used a few blends and mixes.

I started with their Fairway Links Mix; By weight: 49.37% SR5130 Chewings Fescue, 38.80 % SR5250 Creeping Red and 9.88% SR7150 Colonial Bentgrass.

They no longer offer Fairway Links and I have needed to replace SR5250 Creeping Red with Ruddy Strong Creeping and SR7150 Colonial with Puritan Colonial. I haven't added Colonial in my over seed for the last two years.

SR 5130 Chewings
http://www.sroseed.com/Files/Files/SRO_USA/Tech_Sheets/Turfgrass/Fine_Fescue/SR_5130_ts.pdf

Ruddy Strong Creeping
http://www.sroseed.com/Files/Files/SRO_USA/Tech_Sheets/Turfgrass/Fine_Fescue/Ruddy_ts.pdf

Puritan Colonial
http://www.sroseed.com/Files/Files/SRO_USA/Tech_Sheets/Turfgrass/Bentgrass/Puritan_ts.pdf

Consider their Champion Fine Ryegrass if you go that route
http://www.sroseed.com/Files/Files/SRO_USA/Tech_Sheets/Turfgrass/Perennial_Ryegrass/Champion_Fine_ts.pdf

They even have Two Putt Poa reptans - Perennial Poa annua or creeping bluegrass seed available.

I order from Wilbur-Ellis Company, Agribusiness Division. If you call or email Seed Research of Oregon they could give you Vancouver suppliers.

Regards,


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

Thank you George,
much appreciated!


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

g-man said:


> Turfguy93 said:
> 
> 
> > Pangea glr is an excellent cultivar! I have a monostand of it
> ...


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

Turfguy, that's impressive!


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

Shindoman said:


> Turfguy, that's impressive!


Thank you! Still needs a lot of work


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I agree that looks great and super leveled.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

g-man said:


> I agree that looks great and super leveled.


Thanks @g-man having a single cultivar of grass really helps it look smooth but trust me it needs a lot of sand lol


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## Rule11 (May 5, 2018)

PNW_George said:


> Shindoman said:
> 
> 
> > George, what blend of FF and Colonial do you have and where did you source the seed?
> ...


I was curious how to purchase seed from SROO. Went to their website but couldn't find a page to purchase. So I sent them an email. I am thinking about trying that 2 Putt blend. I am in the middle of a 1100 sq ft back yard renovation. I figured maybe ride the Poa train since it is so prevalent up here in the PNW.

Thoughts


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

I sourced a FF/Bent blend from a local small supplier. Not going to do a full renovation. Going to start overseed/topdress right away and again in early August at 1 1/2 lbs. per K. Then do a full dose in early Sept. Wish me luck!


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