# Day 10 KBG. Is this too patchy?



## Pandaluv (4 mo ago)

Seeded (Mazama, Bluebank, and Midnight) 10 days ago on bare dirt. Covered it with topsoil. Did not roll which I regret. Got washout 4 days after seeding. Raked everything to fix it and added a bit more seed (~.5lb per 1k). Saw significant germination on day 8. Now day 10 and it looks so patchy. The backyard and sideyard look similar. I'm worried it won't fill in properly. This is my first lawn reno/seeding and I put in sooo much work into this, as I'm sure all of you can relate. I really don't want it to turn out like crap.


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## cleohioturf (Jul 20, 2020)

some of the areas look bare but I cant tell entirely from picture distance. I would give it a week, if you think you have enough time still yet after that to get more seed down. Some KBG can be slow, you might be in a different situation in a weeks time. If not by then, I would throw some more.


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## Beer-Ghost (Jun 30, 2021)

looks pretty good for 10 days. Bluegrass is slow to germinate and grow from seed.
Drink your favorite adult beverage and watch KBG do its thing.Try not to worry about the millions of baby grasslins you just planted.


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## NJlawnguy (8 mo ago)

At night, ideally with no light shining on that area, take a flashlight and crouch down to shine the light parallelly across your lawn. You can get a better idea of how much has sprouted thus far.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Looks like a 10 day old bluegrass renovation… I usually re assess after 21 days to determine if more seed is needed or not. 10 days is just too soon to know.


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## KoopHawk (May 28, 2019)

Does it look dry? Or is it just me?


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

Id make sure the bare/patchy areas are staying moist. In the photos it looks like there are a few dry spots.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

This is what mine looked like on days 10 or 11.





Day 41 today.



I only threw seed down three times after because of birds and not missing an area. Stay the course.


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## Pandaluv (4 mo ago)

Jeff_MI84 said:


> This is what mine looked like on days 10 or 11.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd be so happy if my yard looks like that. It looks great! Problem for me is that it's late in the season and I can't reseed until spring. I know it will look great next fall, but I wanted a nice lawn after not having a lawn since late July.


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## Pandaluv (4 mo ago)

@jha4aamu 
@KoopHawk

I've been watering a ton, actually probably too much if I'm being honest. Those pictures were taken right before its first watering of the day.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@Pandaluv I've been told that kbg could still look patchy come the spring. The only thing I lucked out on, was not having a washout. I would have been 3-4 days ahead has I not had a downpour the day I wanted to drop seed. The advice I followed from others with irrigation systems, was 2min per zone at 6 times a day. Then day 30 switch to once a day in late morning for the same amount of time (10-12 minutes for me), then water like normal 2-3 days apart from day 45 on.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Looks fine for day 10…. Stay patient..

Here is my day ten on my best spot this year.



Day 36


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## dmackaravitz (Jun 23, 2021)

Here is the same blend as you @ 10 days. I seeded on 8/31





Here is after 18 days..slow as can be. I have been throwing some seed down in some areas, we had some major rains that had all my peat moss floating.


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## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

10 days is nothing for KBG so give it another 20 days. I would not hesitate to throw more seed down if you dont see more germinations by this weekend. You have at least close to 2 more months before winter hits. So you golden.

Btw, where did you get that Bluebank/Mazama/Midnight mix from? Been looking for it myself.


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## NELawn (May 7, 2019)

Jeff_MI84 said:


> @Pandaluv I've been told that kbg could still look patchy come the spring. The only thing I lucked out on, was not having a washout. I would have been 3-4 days ahead has I not had a downpour the day I wanted to drop seed. The advice I followed from others with irrigation systems, was 2min per zone at 6 times a day. Then day 30 switch to once a day in late morning for the same amount of time (10-12 minutes for me), then water like normal 2-3 days apart from day 45 on.


Actually plan on like two to three seasons to really look great and spread like crazy. Next spring it will start out patchy, feed it a lot so it it has what ti needs to thicken up. You won't get the spreading right away the first year, but plan on babying it through the summer, water it a lot because the roots are shallow. Plan on fungicide and pre-m to keep weed free, the first summer is always full of chemicals.

The 2nd summer you will notice more spreading, its really impressive when you feed it and it starts to take off. You can stretch the watering a little, but plan on lots of water.

If you make it to the third year it's awesome, you will have the thick carpet of green people talk about. Now you can water deep and Infrequent.

Throughout this whole time, especially the phase your in now learn to tell the difference between poa-a and KBG. Tenacity only does so much,you have to hand pull any poa-a you see coming up. It took me three springs to get rid of mine. I really wish I would have hand pulled or sprayed tenacity on the young poa-a, the poa-a really made it look like I had more KBG come up,than really did.


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## KoopHawk (May 28, 2019)

Pandaluv said:


> @jha4aamu
> @KoopHawk
> 
> I've been watering a ton, actually probably too much if I'm being honest. Those pictures were taken right before its first watering of the day.


Good deal. Keep it moist. Day 10 is way too early to reseed. Start taking pictures a week apart and compare the progress. About every two weeks you should see significant improvement. If you stare at it every day it will drive you nuts because it will seem like nothing is happening. KBG will test your patience!


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## Pandaluv (4 mo ago)

situman said:


> 10 days is nothing for KBG so give it another 20 days. I would not hesitate to throw more seed down if you dont see more germinations by this weekend. You have at least close to 2 more months before winter hits. So you golden.
> 
> Btw, where did you get that Bluebank/Mazama/Midnight mix from? Been looking for it myself.


I got it from seedsuperstore. Their standard s1100 mix has those 3 KBG with some TTTF, but I made it custom without the TTTF. Germination started days ago and fortunately, there is a noticeable difference today. I also did the flashlight test last night and even patches that I thought were bare have a good amount of germination. My nerves have eased a good amount today. I think this reno is going to end up fantastic, even with the washout. Today is the first day I can see the darker evergreen color. I will post an update in a few days once it fills in better.


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## Pandaluv (4 mo ago)

KoopHawk said:


> Pandaluv said:
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> 
> > @jha4aamu
> ...


It's definitely a patience tester haha. I did the flashlight test last night and there seems to be fantastic germination, even in areas that look bare in the day (for example, in the second pic closest to me, that spot looks completely bare but there's a ton of germination not visible in the day). I think it will fill in real nice by the end of the month. This is from a few hours ago.


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## Pandaluv (4 mo ago)

NELawn said:


> Jeff_MI84 said:
> 
> 
> > @Pandaluv I've been told that kbg could still look patchy come the spring. The only thing I lucked out on, was not having a washout. I would have been 3-4 days ahead has I not had a downpour the day I wanted to drop seed. The advice I followed from others with irrigation systems, was 2min per zone at 6 times a day. Then day 30 switch to once a day in late morning for the same amount of time (10-12 minutes for me), then water like normal 2-3 days apart from day 45 on.
> ...


Thank you for the advice! I started watering as per your recommendation. I have been watering about 4 times a day, but for about 5min each zone. Also been hand watering the few parts that seem to dry up faster. I did put down tenacity and know it's working since all the weeds currently growing have turned white. Thankfully there's very few weeds since I did 4 rounds of glyphosate. I was only planning on doing 2, but sprinkler installment took much longer than expected. The only "weeds" right now (you can see them in the pics), is chives. I have chives planted in one part of my garden and I guess it spread. I'm frankly not worried about it because it's so noticeable and I can use a brush to spread glyphosate on it (I don't want to dig them out for obvious reasons) and/or I believe just cutting the grass short will eventually kill the chives. I would go out and kill them right now, but I've decided not to disturb the yard until it requires its first mow. I don't think I ever had poa in my yard before, but I'll keep an eye out for it. With the new top soil I put down, who knows what other weeds will crop up

Since you brought up chemicals, I have a few questions. I had a soil test done and both backyard and frontyard were similar enough to treat them the same. Basically, low on K, on the border of being too acidic, and optimum N and P. Literally the day before germination (day 7), I put down 5.5lbs per 1k of 0-0-48 (sulphate of potash) and 15lbs per 1k of lime (I need about 40lbs total to raise pH to optimum levels, decided to do multiple feedings instead of all 40). 
Anyway, when should I put down more fert? Which type? Do I really need to add more N and P even though I'm at an optimum range already? Also, what fungicide do you recommend? When should I spread/spray it? Is it vital? I frankly don't want to use fungicide because as someone with a bio background I know how incredibly necessary fungi is to soil health. I would hate to kill off all the necessary fungi along with the problematic ones. I'd rather let some of my grass die and reseed those areas than kill off all the fungi. Unless it's going to wipe off the entire lawn, then that a different story.

Also, here's my soil test.


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## Pandaluv (4 mo ago)

NJlawnguy said:


> At night, ideally with no light shining on that area, take a flashlight and crouch down to shine the light parallelly across your lawn. You can get a better idea of how much has sprouted thus far.


I did this last night and it eased my nerves right away. Even in areas I thought were completely bare had significant germination. Realized that I have fantastic germination now! There is a pretty substantial difference from yesterday as well. I have great confidence that by the end of the month, I'm going to have an almost completely filled in lawn. So exciting!


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## NELawn (May 7, 2019)

As far as your lime and potash recommendations.......

I would wait on potash and lime until next year. Both of those take years to change your soil, your focus this year is getting that KBG through winter, spring, and next summer. Don't rush soil amendments that take years to show up in our soil tests. There is plenty of time next year.

As far as fertilizer....

Generally your not supposed to put down ferlizer until 30 days after germination. Its because KBG does this thing called sprout and pout. It basically come up and just sits there living off the nutrients in its seed, before it starts to grow on its own and develop roots. Fertilizing it too soon means the roots don't get established because your giving it easy nitorgran.

Most people don't follow this, but most people try to strike a balance and wait 30 days when most of your germination was under way. I personally wait until 3-4 weeks before my average first frost. Then I put down a fast acting fertlizer like urea. Although Urea is really advanced level stuff, something like Miloganite is a lot safer.

I would not put Milo down too much after october 1st though, as it would take to long to break dow. maybe shoot for October 1st for an app of Milo and call it a year, then plan on hitting it well next spring. With fast acting urea I throw down small qunatities every week that go directly to the new grass.

After that the best thing you could do it is winterize it once the grass stops growing for the winte sometime in November or December. You basically wait for the grass too stop growing, you know this when you cut the lawn and your not really cutting anything. Then you put down 1# of Nitrogen per 1,000sf, I water in Urea. Urea is much safer in novermeber because your grass isn't growing anymore.

This winterize nitrogen app will be stored in the roots for next spring. Your new lawn will get a running start for next spring. You don't want a slow release fertilizer for this winterizer app, you want it to get to the roots quickly.

Lastly don;t forget to drop some Dimension as a pre-m 30 days past germination. In someways its too late, but it can prevent some of the poa-a .

You won't get two cuts within 30 days for KBG hey suggest, but you can get one pre-m in that might block some of the poa-a. make sure the pre-m is dimension and not prodiamine, because prodiamine can't be put down on new grass, Dimension only needs two cuts or 30 days.

Don't forget to look up what young; newly germinated poa-a looks like. It looks kind of stalky. not leaf like. the young KBG looks different, if you can hand pull the young poa-a when the reno is just starting it will save years worth of hassle and heart ache.


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## NELawn (May 7, 2019)

Missed the fungicide part of your post.....

In the past I tried a natural preventative fungicide route with something called Serenade. I put it down biweekly and it was supposed to be good fungus to fight the bad fungus. I always started it in early May, but I got hit with fungus every single august that would kill large swaths of my KBG. Every spring those ares grew back, but it was like starting from scratch. The key is to have a thick healthy lawn in August so it only gets better going into the following spring.

This year I tried a preventative approach with spraying commercial fungicide. I developed a schedule based on posts from this forum. I got barely any fungus at all. My lawn in August never looked better.

I hear you about wanting to be natural, but the KBG coombes first, worry about advanced level soil health once you get through one or two summers. By that point you will have an established KBG lawn and can go the natural route, or at least thats what I wish i did. I lost too much time going the natural route and recovering every spring.


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## NJlawnguy (8 mo ago)

Pandaluv said:


> NJlawnguy said:
> 
> 
> > At night, ideally with no light shining on that area, take a flashlight and crouch down to shine the light parallelly across your lawn. You can get a better idea of how much has sprouted thus far.
> ...


Pretty wild right? Really happy to know that this has helped though and that you're on the right side of things now. Happy growing!


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## Pandaluv (4 mo ago)

@NJlawnguy @NELawn@KoopHawk @situman @dmackaravitz @cleohioturf @Beer-Ghost @Stuofsci02 @Jeff_MI84 @jha4aamu@SNOWBOB11

Today is officially 2 weeks since the first seeding and the 1st week since the second light seeding to compensate for the washout (0.5lbs per 1k).

Very pleased with the results! I'm positive it will fill in nicely and become more uniform with time. I still expect to see more germination this coming week due to the second seeding. Eagerly waiting for when it comes out of sprout and pout!

PS The tall chives are an eyesore, as well as the few leaves and branches (high winds these past few days). Holding off on going on the yard and disturbing it until it needs to be mowed.


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## Pandaluv (4 mo ago)

@NELawn

Thank you for all the advice and the time it took you to write all that! I appreciate it.

As far as fertilizers go, I did already put down sulfate of potash as it was recommended from the soil test. I was planning on putting fert down after my first mow which is probably going to be mid October if it even happens. So the milo will basically do nothing this year right? I'll put it down in the beginning of October, I think the grass will be able to tolerate some disturbance. I don't mind spraying urea, how much should I spray? I was thinking of doing that after the first mow to just give the grass some last umph before winter, maybe some potassium as well for the roots. I'm frankly very happy thus far, I know I have a good foundation to work with and that it will fill in nicely next year with some tlc.

As far as herbicides, I put down tenacity (0.5tsp per 1k) 3 days after seeding. I can see it working, the few weeds that have popped up have turned white. The only thing that's currently thriving that isn't grass is the wild onion. I don't mind though since it sticks out like a sore thumb and it's going to be real easy to spot for when I brush glyphosate the day before I mow. Should I still put down dimension even though I sprayed tenacity? Will dimension kill the wild onions? It would be nice if it also did that, ha. 
Whatever I need to do for this lawn I'll do it. I don't mind the labor.

Do you have a link to the fungicide schedule? I'll heed your advice and experience.


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## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

Tenacity will kill it.


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## Pandaluv (4 mo ago)

dmackaravitz said:


> Here is the same blend as you @ 10 days. I seeded on 8/31
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would love to see an update so I can gauge where I’ll be next week. The 2nd pic is fairly similar to my results so far.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Skip the Milo. Soil temps aren't warm enough. 

Urea can be done at 0.25lb N per 1,000 sf each week. I'd wait until after the first cut. 

Speaking of cutting, make sure to cut when the first of the grass gets just over 2". Keep cutting frequently. After 3-4 cuts you can adjust to your normal height. 

Do not be put off if your lawn isn't thick and lush this Fall. It won't be. Growing grass from seed, especially KBG, requires patience. It will get better and fuller with time. It will look better next Fall and even better the following year.


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## Pandaluv (4 mo ago)

Harts said:


> Skip the Milo. Soil temps aren't warm enough.
> 
> Urea can be done at 0.25lb N per 1,000 sf each week. I'd wait until after the first cut.
> 
> ...


I was looking at the grass blades today and I think they’re just starting to get out of sprout and pout so I might be able to squeeze in a mow or two before winter. If I can get one week of the grass growing with urea, I’ll be very happy. Do you know of any fast acting potassium I can use and if so at what rate? At what soil temps should I spread milo in the spring?

Thank you for the encouragement. I’m actually very happy with how it’s turning out so far, considering the washout. I know there’s nothing more I could have done better considering the circumstances. All the weeds that have popped up now are turning white thanks to tenacity. Even the wild onions are dying. There’s really not that many or large truly bare spots. The spots that look bare in the pics are thin areas that will fill up nicely come spring. I also have more than enough seeds to reseed/overseed the bare/thin spots just in case. It’s going to look mint come late spring, I’ll make sure of it. My plan come spring is to aerate the front again since it’s heavy clay and even though I did aerate before seeding, it needs more of it. Top dress it with mushroom compost in those areas to amend the soil. There’s also some areas that will need some extra leveling.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

I would avoid potassium apps this late if you experience prolonged snow cover of 45+ days. This can increase the risk of snow mold come next Spring.

I'm of the opinion that the majority of home lawns do not need to be aerated. We don't deal with heavy compaction like sports fields do. Plus, many times proper irrigation can alleviate hard soil. If you just aerated, you don't need to do it again in the Spring. If you feel like you have to aerate, I would give the new grass one full growing season. You goal beginning in the Spring is to help the new grass establish and spread. Do a Spring nitrogen blitz for 4-6 weeks to really push the KBG then apply the Milo sometime in May/June. The takeaway - give your grass a lot of nitrogen next year. I would aim for 4-5lb N per 1,000 sf for the season. 

Lastly, you don't need to overseed KBG. Feed it nitrogen and it will spread. You shouldn't ever have to overseed your lawn if you follow best practices for feeding, irrigation and cutting.


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## dmackaravitz (Jun 23, 2021)

Pandaluv said:


> Would love to see an update so I can gauge where I’ll be next week. The 2nd pic is fairly similar to my results so far.


Here it is today. Got its first mow, still very patchy. I mowed right around 1". Some grass was 2-3" some was <1". Will try to do a second urea application tomorrow of .2lbN/k.


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## Pandaluv (4 mo ago)

Hey all, with the weather in the northeast now about to turn I wanted to do one last upgrade for this year. There are some areas that are patchy and haven’t gotten out of sprout and pout even this much time after germination. I sprayed liquid fertilizer twice and not planning on putting anything else down until spring. Overall, I’m fairly happy. Looking forward to filling this lawn in next year.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You should do more nitrogen. Granular.


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## Pandaluv (4 mo ago)

g-man said:


> You should do more nitrogen. Granular.


Isn’t it too late now? Going to dip into freezing temps in a week. Was thinking of waiting for spring to throw granular fert down. I’ll do it tomorrow if it’s worth doing.


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## robjak (Mar 31, 2020)

Soil temps are still fairly high. Couldnt hurt. Much colder air is coming next week.


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