# A Tale of Two Lawns



## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

Looking for some help on this crazy front lawn of mine. I was told the grass was Bermuda Tif 419. I think this is only partially true...have a look and any thoughts are welcomed!

One lawn with what appears to be two grasses. I think both are Bermuda?


Grass on the right...


Grass on the left...


Grass from the right side with a strand of the grass from the left...


So am I crazy or are the different? Will one eventually take over the other? After over a year all I see is a distinctly different lawn. Also the grass on the left this is as green as it has ever been. The grass on the left certainly suffers from compaction (I have aerated twice and will do so again next spring).


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## N LA Hacker (Aug 17, 2018)

That looks more like common bermuda to me


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## BlakeG (Jul 17, 2018)

N LA Hacker said:


> That looks more like common bermuda to me


+1

It looks like the 419 sod stopped at the beginning of the ditch line on the right and the rest was seeded Bermuda to to the left.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Those are some thick stolons. Most of what I find in mine are half that size. Everything is bigger in Texas.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Agree - I would guess the area near the road was either seeded or maybe whatever was native to the lot before your home was constructed. What happens is homes are built to a price point, and builders know most homebuyers would rather have things like taller ceilings, more trim or [insert amenity here] than pay for 30k square feet of sod if it isn't required by covenant. Sod is just another line item with an allowance on the bid sheet, so it's not uncommon (around here anyway) to only see sod laid on the disturbed area around the home on larger lots like yours.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

Thanks @Ware, @N LA Hacker, @TN Hawkeye, @BlakeG for the feedback. The builders on this project are required to sod front, sides and certain portion of the back. My lot was the first home built and the model for this builder (there are 4 so called custom builders). When we found the subdivision there was one other homeowner and some spec homes. All lots are 1 acre plus and we now have almost 40 homeowners.

Back to the grass...rumor has it the builder had issues trying to put in a lawn. Supposedly he tried hydro seeding and it wouldn't take. I was not here and cant confirm exactly what happened but the end result is what I have to deal with. Questions: 
- two different types of bermuda correct?
- what are my options?
- the left side would be the least amount to replace so would this be the best option?

I hate seeing two versions of bermuda. The right side greens up nicely and spreads well. The left side just sits there and does almost nothing. If it would at least green up I may be able to live with it. So Im thinking just keep aerating and try to get it to thicken up like the right side. Im willing to go another year or should I just replace and move on since that area is less than 3k sq ft?


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

"It was the best of lawns, it was the worst of lawns, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity. . ."

Maybe the 419 will slowly take over the common. If not, you can try and knock it back with Fulsilade and plug or sod your improved variety as the budget allows.


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## N LA Hacker (Aug 17, 2018)

So if the soil is the same and hydrology allows it, I would sod or plug the ditch. To save money you could just buy one pallet of 419 and patchwork the ditch, fill in the low spots with sand and then plug in between.


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## Jacob_S (May 22, 2018)

That is not all bermuda, leaf shape and especially that runner in the last pic. To me, and i could be off base, but that runner looks like maybe St Aug. but i'd say that no that is not all bermuda not even common, leaf is all wrong.


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## SC-Bermuda (Jul 16, 2018)

Jacob_S said:


> That is not all bermuda, leaf shape and especially that runner in the last pic. To me, and i could be off base, but that runner looks like maybe St Aug. but i'd say that no that is not all bermuda not even common, leaf is all wrong.


I was thinking the same, the leaf shape from the grass on the left looks like something other than Bermuda, also it looks lighter colored than even common Bermuda.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

@Jacob_S, @SC-Bermuda, What could it be? Should I take more pics?


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## N LA Hacker (Aug 17, 2018)

Yes, please take more pictures.  It could be st. aug. That might be why it's struggling. You're cutting it low like the Bermuda.


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## Jacob_S (May 22, 2018)

I am personally leaning towards St Aug mixed in.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Reno it... Use soul stealer mix...


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Jacob_S said:


> That is not all bermuda, leaf shape and especially that runner in the last pic. To me, and i could be off base, but that runner looks like maybe St Aug. but i'd say that no that is not all bermuda not even common, leaf is all wrong.


That was my first thought looking at that runner. That's why I brought up the thickness but I couldn't really tell.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

More pics of the bad side...













One more look up close of the good side...


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

+1 on st augustine. I didn't notice it at first but after looking at it harder, it sure does look like st Augustine. Definitely pull some more runners and post pictures of them.


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

Oops I'll take it back, from the pics you just posted, it definitely looks like common Bermuda grass.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Iriasj2009 said:


> Oops I'll take it back, from the pics you just posted, it definitely looks like common Bermuda grass.


+1

I'm no expert, but I think so too.


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## N LA Hacker (Aug 17, 2018)

Yeah, it's mostly common Bermuda. Looks like some goose grass and nutsedge mixed in for good measure.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

What a mess I seem to have here!


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## N LA Hacker (Aug 17, 2018)

Could be worse for sure. Do you have irrigation out there?


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

N LA Hacker said:


> Could be worse for sure. Do you have irrigation out there?


Yep plenty of inground sprinklers for sure...


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## Ahab1997 (Jun 30, 2018)

Hit a test spot with quinclorac. If you get a negative response, then you've got some good evidence pointing to St Aug.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Ware said:


> Iriasj2009 said:
> 
> 
> > Oops I'll take it back, from the pics you just posted, it definitely looks like common Bermuda grass.
> ...


+2 - I think the close ups are making the leafs look larger than they really are. Your thumb against the pic definitely confirms it isn't St Augustine as that blade would be nearly as wide as your thumb.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

So the consensus seems to be common Bermuda. Thats fine but how do I improve it? Would this work next spring?

Option 1
- scalp area to at least 1"
- aerate the area
- sand over the area
- use "Pro Plugger" to transfer from the good side

Option 2
- scalp area to at least 1"
- aerate the area
- sand over the area
- place new sod over the top

Could be both options are terrible and my feelings will not be hurt as I have never dove into the depths of lawn care at this level @Iriasj2009, @Spammage, @N LA Hacker, @Ware??


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

@J_nick has made a spectacular renovation - I'd lean on his opinion.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

dfw_pilot said:


> @J_nick has made a spectacular renovation - I'd lean on his opinion.


Thanks daw...I will look into it. just need to make sure Im headed in the right direction!


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## FlaDave (Jul 10, 2018)

I'm thinking if you aren't happy with that grass, you're going to need to kill off that area the best you can first. That grass is just going to grow right back if you don't. If sod is in your budget that's probably the way to go. If you're up for a project you can have some fun plugging or sprigging that section from your current lawn. Skip the scalping, save the sanding for after you get the grass established in that area again.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

FlaDave said:


> I'm thinking if you aren't happy with that grass, you're going to need to kill off that area the best you can first. That grass is just going to grow right back if you don't. If sod is in your budget that's probably the way to go. If you're up for a project you can have some fun plugging or sprigging that section from your current lawn. Skip the scalping, save the sanding for after you get the grass established in that area again.


Appreciated FlaDave....whatever gave you the idea I don't like, cant stand, hate this one area of my lawn  Its like two-face from Batman every time I look at it!

As for this area of the lawn it goes down and back up a ditch. Since there is already something there to help protect runoff Im leaning toward taking on the project of plugging just based on the ideas you threw out. Just not sure or confident about how to go about it just yet. I will wait for a few more suggestions to come in then throw out a game plan to see how it looks to the TLF community...

Again I appreciate the feedback so please stay tuned...


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I think it ultimately depends on your goals, but the common will always be there unless you get a complete kill. Common just doesn't mix well with improved varieties. I think you would always be able to see it.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

Ware said:


> I think it ultimately depends on your goals, but the common will always be there unless you get a complete kill. Common just doesn't mix well with improved varieties. I think you would always be able to see it.


Well darn...One main goal...have the entire front lawn look like one yard not two (at least for now).


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## N LA Hacker (Aug 17, 2018)

Yeah, ctrav, you'll definitely have to kill the common. Just scalping and covering up will piss it and you off.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@ctrav yep, unfortunately you will need to kill it, water like crazy, kill it again, and then put down some 419 to match. You can have a nice lawn with common, but you will never be able to get rid of the differences when you mix it with a hybrid.

The best hope if you choose not to kill it would be to use a PGR on only the common. It will slow down the growth rate and give it an appearance more similar to the 419.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

As others have said, you'll need to kill it before thinking about replacing it with a better cultivar. If you're serious about renovating that section next year kill it ASAP. Weaken it before going into dormancy then spray it at least 2 more times in the spring.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

J_nick said:


> As others have said, you'll need to kill it before thinking about replacing it with a better cultivar. If you're serious about renovating that section next year kill it ASAP. Weaken it before going into dormancy then spray it at least 2 more times in the spring.


This.

You will want fusilade, triclopyr, and glyphosate. Now, if that's your plan.
Expect to spray again in four weeks, and again in the spring, likely 2-3 times.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

@J_nick, @Movingshrub...looks like I have some decisions to make. I appreciate the feedback for sure. I think my first step is to have a frank discussion with the builder to try and figure out what happened and appeal to his sense of "doing the right thing". My appeal may fall on deaf ears but its worth a try.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

ctrav said:


> ...I think my first step is to have a frank discussion with the builder to try and figure out what happened and appeal to his sense of "doing the right thing". My appeal may fall on deaf ears but its worth a try.


Definitely worth a shot. If he offers to sod it, I would probably ask them to hold off until spring so that you can get a good kill on whatever is there.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

ctrav said:


> J_nick, Movingshrub...looks like I have some decisions to make. I appreciate the feedback for sure. I think my first step is to have a frank discussion with the builder to try and figure out what happened and appeal to his sense of "doing the right thing". My appeal may fall on deaf ears but its worth a try.


Well, a few decisions.

Can you live with common bermuda in your yard?
If not, are you expecting someone else to pay for it? Does the answer to this question change the answer to the first question?

If you can't live with it, and are going to change it no matter what, then you need to accept that getting a high kill rate means spraying over two seasons to maximize chance of success. Bermuda is hard to kill.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

If the builder flat out rejects your offer, maybe s/he could meet you in the middle and get the sod for you at the contractor price instead of yours.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> ctrav said:
> 
> 
> > J_nick, Movingshrub...looks like I have some decisions to make. I appreciate the feedback for sure. I think my first step is to have a frank discussion with the builder to try and figure out what happened and appeal to his sense of "doing the right thing". My appeal may fall on deaf ears but its worth a try.
> ...


My wife can live with it much easier than I can! Let's just see what the builder has to say first...I don't like the idea of "trying to kill the common stuff...


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

What options are you expecting from the builder? What do you consider to be "doing the right thing"?


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> What options are you expecting from the builder? What do you consider to be "doing the right thing"?


Our home was the second home occupied but first built in this development, the builder is one of 4 builders, currently our builder has the most homes built within the complex. The builders are required to sod the entire front, sides and a portion of the rear yards. Part of being the first home built in the community I think there were growing pains and mistakes made.

So my expectations are that the builder will look at the discrepancy and work with me towards a solution. I will request to see the work order as it will be specific as to what was ordered for the lot. In the interest of fairness Im willing to work with the builder with one desired outcome...a consistent lawn! All of the 40+ other homes have that and mine should be no different. If at the end of the day the builder says nope, not going to happen, then I will figure it out. If that means trying a couple of different solutions then thats ok.

I don't want to pick a fight, just take a look and ask yourself would this be ok for your home??? All will be well no matter what


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## N LA Hacker (Aug 17, 2018)

If it's in the covenant, they have to honor it. If they try to argue that it's the same cultivar, that's an easy win for you.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

N LA Hacker said:


> If it's in the covenant, they have to honor it. If they try to argue that it's the same cultivar, that's an easy win for you.


Yes sir it is in there...


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## Kicker (Apr 5, 2018)

i've used the "would you expect this to be in front of a model home" approach before and it worked well for me.

in fact, we had to contact our builders warranty department recently (well after the warranty period) because of tile grout issues we've had in our master shower.

They brought in several different people to look at it and decided a complete rebuild of the shower/tub surrounding area will need to happen.

Keeping a level head and a decent understanding (which you have for this issue) goes a long way with them, i feel like. I don't think you'll have any issues finding a resolution with them.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Even if the builder opts to sod it, you are still going to want to kill off the existing common Bermuda.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

Kicker said:


> i've used the "would you expect this to be in front of a model home" approach before and it worked well for me.
> 
> in fact, we had to contact our builders warranty department recently (well after the warranty period) because of tile grout issues we've had in our master shower.
> 
> ...


Good feedback @Kicker


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