# New grass flopped over



## Bkell101

Hey all,

I recently overseeded. We have had tons of rain and part of my yard is a slight slope so the run off from the rain has flopped over the new grass and it looks matted down.

I remember someone saying not to let the new grass grow too tall that it flops over because it won't recover. In this scenario the rain did it. Am I ok? Anything I can do? Take the blower to it?


----------



## cfinden

How tall is it? Have you mowed yet? When was seed down?

Mowing might suck it back up.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze

If its flopped over its fine fescue, or ridiculously long other grass. You can try to blow it up but its just going to continously flop over and its a bitch to mow because it lays flat and doesnt cut properly.


----------



## STL

Some of my new KBG seedlings flopped over from the rain too. It should stand back up on its own. If not, you could vary lightly rake it a bit to help.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Gentle use of a leaf blower will help a lot. How tall is the grass? 2 inches? 3 inches? 5 inches?

What is the height at which you normally maintain the grass? How tall is the old grass at this point?


----------



## JDgreen18

I have this same problem, I was waiting to mow as my mix had fine and tall fescues and kbg. It was pretty tall maybe 3.5 inches we got a heavy rain and it all layed over. ( not matted down tho) A blower does help, I did cut it yesterday but the push mower doesnt have enuf power to suck up the blades. I will try my rider this week..
I think if its matted down you have to try and rake it a little to get air flow or it will rot from lack of air and not drying out.


----------



## Bkell101

cfinden said:


> How tall is it? Have you mowed yet? When was seed down?
> 
> Mowing might suck it back up.


New grass is about 2.5 inches

I guess bag it?


----------



## Bkell101

FuzzeWuzze said:


> If its flopped over its fine fescue, or ridiculously long other grass. You can try to blow it up but its just going to continously flop over and its a b---- to mow because it lays flat and doesnt cut properly.


The lawn company said it's tall turf type fescue but who knows...does fine fescue fall into that bucket?


----------



## Bkell101

JDgreen18 said:


> I have this same problem, I was waiting to mow as my mix had fine and tall fescues and kbg. It was pretty tall maybe 3.5 inches we got a heavy rain and it all layed over. ( not matted down tho) A blower does help, I did cut it yesterday but the push mower doesnt have enuf power to suck up the blades. I will try my rider this week..
> I think if its matted down you have to try and rake it a little to get air flow or it will rot from lack of air and not drying out.


K good point. I'll try and rake it up a little. Then maybe bag mow for the suction?


----------



## FuzzeWuzze

Bkell101 said:


> FuzzeWuzze said:
> 
> 
> 
> If its flopped over its fine fescue, or ridiculously long other grass. You can try to blow it up but its just going to continously flop over and its a b---- to mow because it lays flat and doesnt cut properly.
> 
> 
> 
> The lawn company said it's tall turf type fescue but who knows...does fine fescue fall into that bucket?
Click to expand...

No TTTF is much better, although without seeing photos its hard to know. Fine fescue is easy to identify in pictures.


----------



## Mozart

What kind of rake works best for lifting matted down grass? A plastic leaf rake? I'm thinking the metal rake might be too sharp.

I'll need to stand mine up once we get a break from all this rain...


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Personally, I find a leaf blower works extremely well and is very gentle if one doesn't use more power than is needed. (Full power is NOT needed!)


----------



## Bkell101

ken-n-nancy said:


> Gentle use of a leaf blower will help a lot. How tall is the grass? 2 inches? 3 inches? 5 inches?
> 
> What is the height at which you normally maintain the grass? How tall is the old grass at this point?


I've done 4 inches all summer. Old grass is 6 inches now. New grass is about 2.5 inches I think.

Here is a pic of the type of grass


----------



## Bkell101

Mozart said:


> What kind of rake works best for lifting matted down grass? A plastic leaf rake? I'm thinking the metal rake might be too sharp.
> 
> I'll need to stand mine up once we get a break from all this rain...


I tried the plastic leaf rake: grass pulled up

I tried my hand: takes forever

I tried the blower: just blows it over the other way

😩


----------



## Bkell101

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Bkell101 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FuzzeWuzze said:
> 
> 
> 
> If its flopped over its fine fescue, or ridiculously long other grass. You can try to blow it up but its just going to continously flop over and its a b---- to mow because it lays flat and doesnt cut properly.
> 
> 
> 
> The lawn company said it's tall turf type fescue but who knows...does fine fescue fall into that bucket?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No TTTF is much better, although without seeing photos its hard to know. Fine fescue is easy to identify in pictures.
Click to expand...

Can you tell type of fescue even when it's in the new phase? I posted the pics


----------



## Bkell101

Bkell101 said:


> Mozart said:
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of rake works best for lifting matted down grass? A plastic leaf rake? I'm thinking the metal rake might be too sharp.
> 
> I'll need to stand mine up once we get a break from all this rain...
> 
> 
> 
> I tried the plastic leaf rake: grass pulled up
> 
> I tried my hand: takes forever
> 
> I tried the blower: just blows it over the other way
> 
> 😩
Click to expand...

It is still a little damp so maybe I'll try again when totally dry?

Also noticed that it's like all stuck together too


----------



## JDgreen18

Maybe try and cut it short...the vacuum might just lift up the blades and cut them. I know it might not be the best option but what else you gonna do.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze

Looks like Fine fescue to me, not TTTF, probably Chewings. It was probably part of whatever mix they put down. You probably do have TTTF in there somewhere.

Im guessing your grass area's look like this(Fine Fescue)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YiSI_CN4Jfo/U_Hm864sZiI/AAAAAAAADz8/cjewIhyq8MQ/s1600/DSC_0117.JPG

Not this(Tall fescue)
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-48YZ0Eyy2vU/U_HnJscuIEI/AAAAAAAAD0E/aO-RiigLsA0/s1600/DSC_0118.JPG


----------



## MichiganGreen

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Looks like Fine fescue to me, not TTTF, probably Chewings. It was probably part of whatever mix they put down. You probably do have TTTF in there somewhere.
> 
> Im guessing your grass area's look like this(Fine Fescue)
> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YiSI_CN4Jfo/U_Hm864sZiI/AAAAAAAADz8/cjewIhyq8MQ/s1600/DSC_0117.JPG
> 
> Not this(Tall fescue)
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-48YZ0Eyy2vU/U_HnJscuIEI/AAAAAAAAD0E/aO-RiigLsA0/s1600/DSC_0118.JPG


Nice side by side. Are these both from your yard?


----------



## FuzzeWuzze

MichiganGreen said:


> FuzzeWuzze said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like Fine fescue to me, not TTTF, probably Chewings. It was probably part of whatever mix they put down. You probably do have TTTF in there somewhere.
> 
> Im guessing your grass area's look like this(Fine Fescue)
> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YiSI_CN4Jfo/U_Hm864sZiI/AAAAAAAADz8/cjewIhyq8MQ/s1600/DSC_0117.JPG
> 
> Not this(Tall fescue)
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-48YZ0Eyy2vU/U_HnJscuIEI/AAAAAAAAD0E/aO-RiigLsA0/s1600/DSC_0118.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> Nice side by side. Are these both from your yard?
Click to expand...

No i just googled fine fescue and found a Purdue site with them 
http://purdueturftips.blogspot.com/2014/08/fescue-you-mean-theres-more-than-one.html

I naplam'd my property to get rid of all fine fescue i cant stand the look of it.


----------



## MichiganGreen

Haha, same. Do grasses go in and out of style like anything else I wonder? I hate fine rescues as well, feels old fashioned. I feel like I used to see it at my grandparents .


----------



## Mozart

@ken-n-nancy's leaf blower suggestion is a good one (@JDgreen18 also suggested this in another thread). What I've noticed is that blow dried grass will stand up on its own with time. Wet grass sticks to the ground. So even if your leaf blower is just blowing the grass over in a different direction you are also removing water droplets from the blades and breaking any existing mycelium webs.

The grass below was 100% matted down last week after a heavy downpour and I blew it dry to prevent fungal issues. The grass was resting on the ground, dry, when I was done.

We've had several days of rain since, with no further intervention on my part. The grass is mostly standing upright now.

@MichiganGreen I agree with you - I think fine fescue looks "old" when it's not 100% green (looks worn in summer) but during spring a healthy fine fescue lawn looks beautiful.


----------



## JDgreen18

@Mozart that's filling in nicely


----------



## Mozart

JDgreen18 said:


> @Mozart that's filling in nicely


Thanks  The weather hasn't been cooperating so I haven't had much time to work in the yard and update my lawn journal. Hoping for some drying off today so I can do a lunchtime mow before more rain tonight/tomorrow. Mowing wet grass is so messy.


----------



## MichiganGreen

Mozart said:


> @ken-n-nancy's leaf blower suggestion is a good one (@JDgreen18 also suggested this in another thread). What I've noticed is that blow dried grass will stand up on its own with time. Wet grass sticks to the ground. So even if your leaf blower is just blowing the grass over in a different direction you are also removing water droplets from the blades and breaking any existing mycelium webs.
> 
> The grass below was 100% matted down last week after a heavy downpour and I blew it dry to prevent fungal issues. The grass was resting on the ground, dry, when I was done.
> 
> We've had several days of rain since, with no further intervention on my part. The grass is mostly standing upright now.
> 
> @MichiganGreen I agree with you - I think fine fescue looks "old" when it's not 100% green (looks worn in summer) but during spring a healthy fine fescue lawn looks beautiful.


ahh, so true so true.


----------



## Bkell101

ken-n-nancy said:


> Personally, I find a leaf blower works extremely well and is very gentle if one doesn't use more power than is needed. (Full power is NOT needed!)


As an update:

Kind of bummed, I tried everything but just couldn't get the grass to stand back up or really dry out. The weather went from 60's and tons of rains to high humidity into the 90's x 2 days. The parts that were matted down from rain runoff on the barely slopes areas are also somewhat shaded.

I used the blower. I used my hands. I used the rake gently. I tried to bag mow and feel like it only made it worse. Meanwhile, other parts of the lawn were needing watered since the heat has been so high. So I hand watered the dry spots. Still there is no coming back for the matter down grass. Sticky green sludge like stuff with all the blades stuck together. I resorted to raking it up today after a second mow (let the old grass get to 6.5 inches then mowed to 4" then two days later took it to 3") and reseeding those areas again. My hopes are low at this point and I feel pretty defeated. Lawn went from looking great to right back to where I started.


----------



## Bkell101

Any criticisms or advice for next year? What should I have done differently? I'm considering throwing in the towel and sodding those areas since I've failed at seeding those same exact areas twice now.


----------



## Bkell101

These are from 36 hours after the rain storms right before the heat came. It doesn't show the matted down spots during that time I don't think. I'll try and post what it now looks like after second mow and 2 days of 85-90 with humidity.


----------



## PA Lawn Guy

Have you considered lowering HOC slightly?

I used to mow on my mowers highest setting. Experimented a bit and the grass stands up MUCH better with a lower HOC. At roughly 2" now and like it a lot better.... YMMV of course.


----------



## g-man

^+1 with that shade 2in should be better.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze

Don't buy seed with chewings or creeping fine fescues.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Bkell101 said:


> ken-n-nancy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I find a leaf blower works extremely well and is very gentle...
> 
> 
> 
> As an update: Kind of bummed, I tried everything but just couldn't get the grass to stand back up or really dry out. .... Still there is no coming back for the matter down grass. Sticky green sludge like stuff with all the blades stuck together.
Click to expand...

Ouch! I can't say I've ever seen or heard of that happening before -- especially not the "green sludge" problem!

A first mowing is usually recommended when the new grass is about 2.5" tall or so. I wonder if the increased height of the new grass before your first mowing is/was a factor?


----------



## Bkell101

ken-n-nancy said:


> Bkell101 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ken-n-nancy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I find a leaf blower works extremely well and is very gentle...
> 
> 
> 
> As an update: Kind of bummed, I tried everything but just couldn't get the grass to stand back up or really dry out. .... Still there is no coming back for the matter down grass. Sticky green sludge like stuff with all the blades stuck together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ouch! I can't say I've ever seen or heard of that happening before -- especially not the "green sludge" problem!
> 
> A first mowing is usually recommended when the new grass is about 2.5" tall or so. I wonder if the increased height of the new grass before your first mowing is/was a factor?
Click to expand...

I think you are totally right. I only mowed to maybe 3" per the lawn care company's suggestion (who was doing the overseeding). I saw on here people mowing super low and using a regulator, which is why I asked them.

Lookin back, the old grass being too high from the beginning and growing tall put me in a predicament. Mow the 6" grass and trample the new grass vs wait and risk shading out new grass. Also, I went from 6" to 4" for the first mow to stick to the 1/3 rule which I feel like is mowing too high for newly overseeded lawn (per g mans references).


----------



## Bkell101

PA Lawn Guy said:


> Have you considered lowering HOC slightly?
> 
> I used to mow on my mowers highest setting. Experimented a bit and the grass stands up MUCH better with a lower HOC. At roughly 2" now and like it a lot better.... YMMV of course.


That makes sense. I have half the yard in sun and half the yard in shade. Separated by a walkway. Mow one side high and one side low? It's obvious that the type of grass that has grown under and around the oak trees is different type than the sunny side of the walkway. (Fine vs tall fescue I believe). I just am nervous about cutting the sunny side to 2 inches given what people have said about mowing tall fescue at 4"


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

2" is just fine for tall fescue. Keeping it tall in the middle of a hot summer can help reduce the amount of watering it may need but nothing wrong with maintaining it at 2". It won't look great if you cut from 4+ to 2" but it'll look fine after a few weeks. You probably shouldn't maintain it under 1". That's a bit too low for TTTF.


----------



## Bkell101

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> 2" is just fine for tall fescue. Keeping it tall in the middle of a hot summer can help reduce the amount of watering it may need but nothing wrong with maintaining it at 2". It won't look great if you cut from 4+ to 2" but it'll look fine after a few weeks. You probably shouldn't maintain it under 1". That's a bit too low for TTTF.


I don't think I have much to lose so I'll try it. 😀. Unless there here strongly disagree.


----------



## Khy

Bkell101 said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2" is just fine for tall fescue. Keeping it tall in the middle of a hot summer can help reduce the amount of watering it may need but nothing wrong with maintaining it at 2". It won't look great if you cut from 4+ to 2" but it'll look fine after a few weeks. You probably shouldn't maintain it under 1". That's a bit too low for TTTF.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think I have much to lose so I'll try it. 😀. Unless there here strongly disagree.
Click to expand...

I had similar problems as you're saying here with my newly seeded TTTF areas. This week out of sheer anger, I went and dropped my HOC to 2" in those areas. And it definitely helped a lot. Still some laying down but it pulled a lot of it up. I did stop watering for like two days when we had some overcast and then I let it dry out a bit in the morning and ended up mowing Saturday when it was around 80 and sunny at like Noon. It was dry enough that the blades didn't have water on them anymore, but the soil was still moist. That seemed to do the trick for me though. I think it was just all the watering from overseeding and then a weeks worth of rain that pushed everything down.

I'm going to try mowing 2-3 more times at 2" and see how that goes in terms of lifting everything up and then I'll try to let it come up a bit more. Ideally I'd like to cut everything at around 3" in the future.


----------



## g-man

@Khy FYI nothing wrong with keeping it at 2in until next spring.


----------



## Khy

g-man said:


> @Khy FYI nothing wrong with keeping it at 2in until next spring.


Yeah, I'm debating right now. I may just keep it at that 2-2.5" range. I definitely like the look more of that height than the 3.5-4" range I leave it at in the dead heat of summer.

That said, apparently it's just going to be 80 here in NJ until December and then it'll randomly just implode to 15 degrees out of nowhere. We've basically lost fall and spring. Just winter and summer now lol


----------



## Bkell101

ken-n-nancy said:


> Bkell101 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ken-n-nancy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I find a leaf blower works extremely well and is very gentle...
> 
> 
> 
> As an update: Kind of bummed, I tried everything but just couldn't get the grass to stand back up or really dry out. .... Still there is no coming back for the matter down grass. Sticky green sludge like stuff with all the blades stuck together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ouch! I can't say I've ever seen or heard of that happening before -- especially not the "green sludge" problem!
> 
> A first mowing is usually recommended when the new grass is about 2.5" tall or so. I wonder if the increased height of the new grass before your first mowing is/was a factor?
Click to expand...

Here is what it looks like now 😩. Right back where we started. It was all lush green till the monsoons came and the 100% humidity without sun here in Cincinnati.


----------



## Bkell101

I had extra seed in the garage so I threw some out there. Low hopes at this point.

Is any type of sod shade tolerant? My understanding is that it's grown in the sun.


----------



## PA Lawn Guy

TTTF sod would likely be somewhat shade tolerant.


----------

