# Soil test results from Waypoint analytics



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

So I've been reading and asking a lot of questions regarding soil tests which might pertain to my own soil test results. Making this thread for my soil test results so I'm not hijacking everyone else's threads with my own questions .

Since these soil tests Lyme was applied last year (Nov/Dec). Not sure how much as I didn't apply it. The lawn company that was under contract for when we built our house to maintain the lawn the first year did.

I have applied .5lb/1k of 19-19-19 at end of april and then 1lb/1k of N of 24-0-11 which has 40% slow release and 6% iron at the end of May.

These are the soil tests. The first one from Soil Savvy was April/may time frame if I remember correctly. The other test was from a local nursery/feed and seed place late summer timeframe. Between those tests 19-19-19 was applied monthly at 1lb/1k.

I have a soil test from Waypoint Analytical in the mail right now and will post the results when I get them.

April/May test.


Aug test.


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

I paid today but don't have the complete soil test back yet only the s3m test results (i got the texture test as well which isn't back).

So I don't have a nice pretty report.

But here are the numbers that I have so far.

I did some comparing to @g-man posted results and mine seem to be in line with his results. Granted a few of mine are pretty high. Is there anything extremely abnormal?


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The nice pretty report should be in your email address you gave them.

Overall it doesn't look bad. From a quick look, maybe some phosphorus.


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@g-man I called and asked about the pretty report and he said that they don't send out the pdf results until all tests are done. He said they are super backlogged due to the texture sample. He did offer to send me a preliminary report pdf because of that.

S3M results.


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Why are they recommending me to throw out so much NPK when my numbers aren't that far off the P and K in particular. I know that N doesn't mean much.


----------



## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

kur1j said:


> Why are they recommending me to throw out so much NPK when my numbers aren't that far off the P and K in particular. I know that N doesn't mean much.


I don't follow your question. Are you asking why they are suggesting all purpose versus just straight nitrogen?

Also, on your micros - I haven't used but continue to consider these two products.

Axilo Mix 5
Iron 4.0%
Boron 0.5%
Mo 0.1%
Mn 4.0%
Zn 1.5%
Cu 1.5%

Brexil Combi
Fe 6.8%
Boron 0.9%
Mo 0.2%
Mn 2.6%
Zn 1.1%
Cu 0.3%


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@Movingshrub

I was just meaning that them recommending 1lb/1k of P and 3lbs/1k of K seems to be a lot.

Also how long would I expect that to last? If they recommend me amend it with 3lbs/1k of K, how long can I expect it to stay in a suitable range?

Yup, saw you mention those last night, but the Fe (iron) on those are a lot lower than FEature.

I ended up finding this which is basically identical to FEature it seems.

https://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=1600


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

also found this one but not sure if it's non staining. I'm also not sure if there is a big difference between the % of Fe. Seems like a lot of iron sources range between 1-10%. Is more better?

https://m.pestrong.com/?url=https://www.pestrong.com/search.php%3forderby=position&orderway=desc&search_query=micronutrients+&submit_search=Go#2902


----------



## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

kur1j said:


> @Movingshrub
> 
> I was just meaning that them recommending 1lb/1k of P and 3lbs/1k of K seems to be a lot.
> 
> ...


Definitely not the expert in this area.

When you say age are you taking frequency of application?


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Their recommendation is for the entire year. I think you selected optimal bermuda, so that's what they recommended. The lawn will loose some potassium over time, so just 3lb/M is not that much. Do you mulch your clippings ? If so, you could skip the K this year and see if it drops next year. A 125ppm is sufficient in my opinion.

I do think you should improve the phosphorus. MLSN recommend above 21ppm. You are at 15 and will loose some if you don't mulch. I think their 1lb recommendation will be good too to not over do it.


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@Movingshrub Sorry auto correct got me. I just meant thst FEature has a lot more Iron in it than the others I found.


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

g-man said:


> Their recommendation is for the entire year. I think you selected optimal bermuda, so that's what they recommended. The lawn will loose some potassium over time, so just 3lb/M is not that much. Do you mulch your clippings ? If so, you could skip the K this year and see if it drops next year. A 125ppm is sufficient in my opinion.
> 
> I do think you should improve the phosphorus. MLSN recommend above 21ppm. You are at 15 and will loose some if you don't mulch. I think their 1lb recommendation will be good too to not over do it.


Did you mean 3lb/Month on Potassium with 3lb/M? I do not bag my clippings. Sorry, what is MLSN?

So I know the N is short lived but these admendments of P and K I'm just unsure of how long I can plan around not having to add more P and K. For example, if I go and put out exactly 1lb/1k of P and exactly 3lb/1k of K and if I didn't play any more P and K and just cut the grass, return the clippings and apply 1lb/1k of N, how long would it take before I would be low on P and K? Would it be a month or 2? Or would it be next year until I would need to apply more P and K? I know this might sound rudimentary but not sure how to formulate the question.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

3lb/M = 3lb/ksqft. A M is 1000 sqft. MLSN = Minimum Level Sustain Nutrition. It is an approach for the how low you could have the nutrients and have a good turf. It is one of multiple approaches.

Nutrients move thru the soil and get use up. N and K need to be maintained, P stays unless you remove your clippings. How long it takes to go too low, it depends on soil structure, amount of irrigation etc. But we are talking months. Just re test next year and add if needed, nothing to worry about.

To clarify, don't apply more than one pound of P or K per ksqft per month. So one application of P and 3 of K this year and that's it. You have a pretty good soil.


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@g-man Ahh, that makes sense. Okay so if I get my amendments in I could theoretically just apply N for the rest of the year (e.g. 34-0-0)? Granted by that time growing season be about over haha.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I just found your previous post. @Ware could merge this with the other one (page 1)

So you applied, potassium at the end of May. And also some lime in Nov. That could skew your results reflecting higher ppm that real and higher pH. Did you sample 0 to 4 in deep 0 to 6? 1 to 4in? Multiple places?

I would definitely apply the pottasium and re test next year right before green up/scalping.


----------



## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Done.


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

g-man said:


> I just found your previous post. @Ware could merge this with the other one (page 1)
> 
> So you applied, potassium at the end of May. And also some lime in Nov. That could skew your results reflecting higher ppm that real and higher pH. Did you sample 0 to 4 in deep 0 to 6? 1 to 4in? Multiple places?
> 
> I would definitely apply the pottasium and re test next year right before green up/scalping.


Yeah, I've applied K twice this year. Once with the 19-19-19 (end April) and then once with the 24-0-11 (end may). Each time was about .5lb of K. The lawn care company late last year put out lime in November. Not 100% sure how much. Their contract ended that same month so I know nothing else has been done to the yard except what I've done to it.

Do you really think the lime would have screwed with the pH that much?

I used my garden spade dug about .5-4" deep and grabbed soil. I dug 12 holes spaced roughly even apart. I then put it all in a ziplock bag, shook it and mixed it up the best I could. I then sent that in.


----------



## BenC (Mar 27, 2018)

Realize that lab recs are not the same as agronomist recs. Oscar over at waypoint is a great guy and super on point, but can only provide "lab recs" without consulting with you on your cultural practices. Also, be cautious comparing results from one lab to another. For instance, there's no way your base sat %'s could change that much between the Waters lab sampling date and and the Waypoint sampling date, the difference is human error/bias, I would trust the lab tech who does more samples/day which I believe is Waypoint, as that test is based off of a saturation paste extract which is super subjective. That said, you have real nice soil. Your fert application rates should be what I call maintenance rates, rather than build or corrective rates with the exception of potassium. With a 12.7 meq CEC you could hold more K I think in your soil. On grass crops I like potassium uptake to happen in the fall/pre dormancy primarily.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I agree with BenC and yes Oscar is a great guy.

Kur1j, your soil is nice. I wish I had it instead of mine. It is just hard to tell what effect your applications could have on your soil. You will be fine and should have a great lawn with your soil.


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@BenC Fair enough. I just don't know if I screwed up something with my sampling. What does the base sat %'s indicate? Do you think it would be reasonable to test again later in the year as well next year?


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@g-man Thanks. I appreciate the help and information! Do you think I should just avoid putting anything on it for the next few weeks (other than N) and sample again to get a better reading?


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I don't think you need to sample again this year. Apply some phosphorus and some potassium this year and then sample/test again next year.

Lawn care is a marathon. Things takes time to move thru the soil and have a lasting effect. If you want some faster uniform soil, then you will need to till your entire yard. And even then, it will still take time. I doubt you want to destroy your current Bermuda, right?


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@g-man Fair enough.

Nope, not particularly. Wife might not be thrilled with that haha. I'll plan on going and getting me a bag of P and K tomorrow!

Thanks again!


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Bags of just p and just k are not that easy to find. For P, look at bags called "starter fertilizer". For K, that's a harder one. You will find MOP (0-0-60), but SOP (0-0-50), is nicer to the soil. Ask in the local/city folder to see if other members know where to find it.


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@g-man Thanks! Oddly enough I know where to get bags of P and K. Triple superphosphate (0-46-0) and 0-0-60 Potassium chloride. What is in the harm of using the 0-0-60 instead of the 0-0-50? I'll ask to see if they carry it regardless.

Its rather annoying because I can't find anything else around here locally that isn't astronomically expensive, or they just don't carry any options.


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Ok another stupid question, what on the soil test indicates good or bad soil?


----------



## BenC (Mar 27, 2018)

kur1j said:


> What is in the harm of using the 0-0-60 instead of the 0-0-50?


I personally don't care for the chloride portion of it, there is potential for salt burn. With SOP you can at least use some of the sulfate


----------



## BenC (Mar 27, 2018)

kur1j said:


> Ok another stupid question, what on the soil test indicates good or bad soil?


Your CEC is really good, organic matter is really nice. Nutrient concentrations are close to where they should be, pH is just fine. Sat %'s are a little out of wack, k and mg are below optimum b/c ca is a little higher than it should be. I don't think there is anything you can do about it though, and it's very far from the worst problem you could have. Like a first world problem


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

BenC said:


> kur1j said:
> 
> 
> > What is in the harm of using the 0-0-60 instead of the 0-0-50?
> ...


So if that's the case would it be better to just get something with a lower K and some N? Like. 22-0-11? I'm pretty sure the place didn't have the 0-0-50. I'll ask though.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

mixes are (22-0-11) are mixes of different products. Most likely MOP. I think some of scott mixes are SOP.


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Well I got lucky. i was able to to get some 0-45-0 and then they were able to order 0-0-50 for me. should be there by thursday.


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@g-man

Here is the updated soil test with the texture results. The result information is really surprising to me in them saying anything about sand.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I just noticed something I did not notice the first time. Andy in ATY called out when Mn was higher than iron as possibly causing yellowing. He recommended to up the iron. I have never researched this topic.

Again, great soil.


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Sorry, what is ATY? Regardless, that's very interesting. I honestly don't know much about how all of the micronutrients affect the grass, other than iron making it green up. I'll look more into this. I've got some micronutrients and cheated iron on order.

Thanks appreciate the compliments. Honestly I was told that we have really crappy soil. Good to hear that, thst isn't the case.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

ATY = around the yard (aroundtheyard.com) It is the lawn forum must of us used to be at a year ago. Andy is the admin and does soil interpretations/recommendations.

This report references a ratio of 3:1. I keep researching it, but I would recommend not adding more Mn (FEature) and adding iron only. https://www.gcsaa.org/docs/default-source/research-and-information/ipm-planning-guide/reference_soil.pdf?sfvrsn=2


----------



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@g-man Oh that looks interesting. Thanks I'll read and look into that.

I have some Axilo and some generic Sprint 330 (chelated iron only) on the way. Hopefully I get to put some of it out this weekend.


----------

