# Advice on unhealthy patches (St Aug)



## TXAggie13 (Aug 28, 2018)

Hey All -

Been lurking for a while and just now decided to make an account. I'm in southern region (Texas) and have a St. Aug lawn. The yard was in really rough shape about a year ago when I bought the house but it's come along very nicely with some work.

The last week or so I've noticed a couple of spots in my back yard that I thought were just hot spots. The grass isn't growing as much as the rest of the yard and you can tell there is some dieing off. Does anyone have any guesses as to what's happening and any recommendations for treatment? I've dealt with army worms before and I don't have any sign that this is those guys - can't see any crawling around in the evening, no "chew off" lines, etc.

Let me know what you guys think. I appreciate the help!

Healthy portion:

Damaged portion:

Overall area:


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## Gregau33 (Apr 15, 2018)

What about grubs? Grub damage on a St. Augustine yard looks like dry spots at first. Actually it looks exactly like your bottom picture. If it is grubs treat it fast.


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## Stellar P (Apr 13, 2018)

Maybe heat and drought stress. I've got some areas of my front lawn that look the same and my problem is definitely from drought during our hot weather (HTX). What are your watering habits? I see a lot of the blades that are folding in on the center line, making more of a "V". St Aug does this to conserve water loss through the blade.

A heads up on disease too... St Aug is susceptible to disease, and I noticed a lot of frayed tips on the blades. Look at sharpening your mower blade. The ripped/frayed tips give the pathogen/disease more opportunity to enter the plant.


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## thatlawnguy (Aug 16, 2018)

It could also be chinch bugs. If you look down deep into the grass on the border of the good and bad grass near the soil you can see them, it will take a while sometimes. They are usually in the hottest driest part of the lawn (up against sidewalls, etc). Lately if I get a spot like that I just spray it with bifenthrin and move on.

-tlg


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

I have a spot in my yard like this. My sprinkler was missing this spot and I never paid attention to it. Lack of water would be the first thing I would check, then check for chinch bugs second. If the spot gets worst after watering that's a insect(chinch bugs) problem.


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## TXAggie13 (Aug 28, 2018)

Stellar P said:


> Maybe heat and drought stress. I've got some areas of my front lawn that look the same and my problem is definitely from drought during our hot weather (HTX). What are your watering habits? I see a lot of the blades that are folding in on the center line, making more of a "V". St Aug does this to conserve water loss through the blade.
> 
> A heads up on disease too... St Aug is susceptible to disease, and I noticed a lot of frayed tips on the blades. Look at sharpening your mower blade. The ripped/frayed tips give the pathogen/disease more opportunity to enter the plant.


I water 2-3 times a week. I'd say around 1" per run. I know one thing I need to change is when I water. Since I don't have a automatic system, the only time I'm able to water is in the evenings after work. I'm really questioning fungus since I know that's not ideal for drying.

I did notice the rips this mow as well. I just sharpened my blade a few weeks ago....really need to double check I didn't do something like install it upside down.


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## TXAggie13 (Aug 28, 2018)

I went ahead and did a treatment with Round Up Bug Destroyer. We had a lot of June bugs here so also wanted to treat as a preventative anyway (even though I'm late). I'm going to watch it and see how it reacts. I noticed a couple of spots that made me think fungus as well. What would you guys recommend putting on for a fungicide?


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## thatlawnguy (Aug 16, 2018)

For a fungicide try something with azoxystrobin or propiconazole. Typically you want to diagnose the fungus and then pick the fungicide since some work better on certain diseases and then the same fungicide won't do anything for a different disease. Azoxystrobin or propiconazole are fairly broad ones (but they don't work on everything) and for the disease I've experienced this year (grey leaf spot) they both work with azoxystrobin working better and giving you a longer time between reapplications (although in your pictures I do not see evidence of grey leaf spot). You should be able to find one or both at your local home improvement store (link below has brand names).

Here's a link to a post in the Cool Season Section all about fungicides: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4042

-tlg


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## Stellar P (Apr 13, 2018)

TXAggie13 said:


> Stellar P said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe heat and drought stress. I've got some areas of my front lawn that look the same and my problem is definitely from drought during our hot weather (HTX). What are your watering habits? I see a lot of the blades that are folding in on the center line, making more of a "V". St Aug does this to conserve water loss through the blade.
> ...


Sounds like you're getting plenty of water. And because you're moving the sprinkler around, you'd know if that area wasnt getting hit. Like @CenlaLowell said, insect pressure could be the problem. I just got Taslar P insecticide, and havent done my first app, so I cant recommend it. Although your watering habits may increase your chances of disease, I didn't notice any Grey Leaf Spot. The fungicide guide that @thatlawnguy linked to has been my go to.


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## TXAggie13 (Aug 28, 2018)

As an update - I inspected a little closer last night and did find a few gray leaf spots. There wasn't a ton of it, but definitely found some. Will treat with a fungicide as well to be sure.


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## Stellar P (Apr 13, 2018)

TXAggie13 said:


> As an update - I inspected a little closer last night and did find a few gray leaf spots. There wasn't a ton of it, but definitely found some. Will treat with a fungicide as well to be sure.


I'm just about to finish off my grey leaf spot using those 2. Then I can do an app of Celsius on a stress free lawn. The Azoxystrobin has done very well to knock back the fungus. If it doesn't rain in the next 2 days, I can get the Propiconazole down.

*My Fungicide game plan:*


July 15th - Azoxystrobin...00.31% (Scott's DiseaseEx) - Front yard only @ preventative rate (I misread the label and should have applied at the curative rate)

July 27th - Azoxystrobin...00.31% (Scott's DiseaseEx) - Front yard @ preventative rate and back yard @ curative rate (hard to time back yard apps because of dogs)

August 30th (Tomorrow) - Propiconazole...14.3% (Quali-Pro) - Front and back @ 2 oz/1000 sq ft

September 8th - Azoxystrobin...00.31% (Scott's DiseaseEx) - Front and back @ preventative rate

September 15th- Propiconazole...14.3% (Quali-Pro) - Front and back @ 1 oz/1000 sq ft

That'll give me 2 weeks of recovery and then I'll do an app of Celsius and Prodiamine.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Stellar P said:


> TXAggie13 said:
> 
> 
> > As an update - I inspected a little closer last night and did find a few gray leaf spots. There wasn't a ton of it, but definitely found some. Will treat with a fungicide as well to be sure.
> ...


So the end of September is when your going to put the Celsius down? If so, what are you estimating temperatures to be around that time?


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## Stellar P (Apr 13, 2018)

@CenlaLowell 
Some NOAA data shows that highs start to decrease from 95 degrees around now. Dip below 90 around mid/late September, but with occasional highs around the low 90s. Averages are in the upper 80s at the beginning of October with the random 90-91 degree day, so I think that will be an optimal time to do a Celsius App without worrying about heat restrictions. The weekend of September 29th is what I'm shooting for.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Stellar P said:


> @CenlaLowell
> Some NOAA data shows that highs start to decrease from 95 degrees around now. Dip below 90 around mid/late September, but with occasional highs around the low 90s. Averages are in the upper 80s at the beginning of October with the random 90-91 degree day, so I think that will be an optimal time to do a Celsius App without worrying about heat restrictions. The weekend of September 29th is what I'm shooting for.


Do you have a link to that exact page because I went to the site, but I can not find how you got that information. I was trying to plan when I was going to spray dismiss and Celsius this fall.


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## iFisch3224 (Jun 11, 2018)

Too many group 11 applications (Scotts Disease Ex). If anything, go Scotts (group 11), Eagle 20 (group 3) and Clearlys 3336 (group 1).

That will give you multiple modes of action and different AI's (active ingredients). Fungus quickly adapts to the same AI and become immune to it.


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## thatlawnguy (Aug 16, 2018)

For those with St. Aug how many are running a preventative fungus program? I'm not but I'm always interested to see what I can learn from others' experiences.

-tlg


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## iFisch3224 (Jun 11, 2018)

thatlawnguy said:


> For those with St. Aug how many are running a preventative fungus program? I'm not but I'm always interested to see what I can learn from others' experiences.
> 
> -tlg


I definitely, will, after 4 months of battling fungus. (and it's the most expensive thing I've bought all year [fungicides])

Will keep class 11 (Disease Ex), class 3 (Eagle 20) and class 1 (Clearlys3336) all on hand next year. So I can apply the group 11 around late spring (for us), Eagle 20 (because so far it has worked best for me) in the early/middle summer, and group 1 (Clearlys3336) in mid/late summer.


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## Stellar P (Apr 13, 2018)

thatlawnguy said:


> For those with St. Aug how many are running a preventative fungus program? I'm not but I'm always interested to see what I can learn from others' experiences.
> 
> -tlg


I'll definetly be doing one in the spring. It's so humid down here that Gray Leaf Spot is just about guaranteed. 


iFisch3224 said:


> Too many group 11 applications (Scotts Disease Ex). If anything, go Scotts (group 11), Eagle 20 (group 3) and Clearlys 3336 (group 1).
> 
> That will give you multiple modes of action and different AI's (active ingredients). Fungus quickly adapts to the same AI and become immune to it.


Propiconazole is a group 3 fungicide. See Suburban Jungle Life's post below from theFungicide Guide Thread. I'll be doing (group 11 > group 3 > group 11 > group 3). The lack of alternating is what will cause fungal resistance (Hopefully my 1 week delay in group 11 to the front yard didn't create this, but I'm not worried). If I am unable to prevent the GLS from fully vanishing this fall, I'll start doing an extra MOA in the spring.


Suburban Jungle Life said:


> *FRAC Group 1*
> 
> *Thiophanate Methyl - 1*
> An, BD, BDS, *BP*, CR, CS, *DS*, FB, FP, GLS, LB, *LP*, LS, NRS, PSM, SDS, SM, RT, Ru, SP, SS, TP, YP, ZP
> ...





CenlaLowell said:


> Stellar P said:
> 
> 
> > @CenlaLowell
> ...


I'll have to do some digging. I found it on my work computer yesterday and now I'm off 5 days for labor day. I'll PM it to you when I find it.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

:thumbup: When I got into fungicides, my wallet really started complaining... Just keep in mind the per app cost. Some of these products are cheap, maybe $10 for a bottle, but per M, it can cost up to $30. Bananas!


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## thatlawnguy (Aug 16, 2018)

@Stellar P by no means am I fungicide expert but have you considered the mix of group 3 and group 11 that @thegrassfactor uses? You go down at a low rate of each at the same time and it sounds like it gives better control than alternating. I've never tried it but thought it could be applicable to your situation.

-tlg


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## iFisch3224 (Jun 11, 2018)

thatlawnguy said:


> @Stellar P by no means am I fungicide expert but have you considered the mix of group 3 and group 11 that @thegrassfactor uses? You go down at a low rate of each at the same time and it sounds like it gives better control than alternating. I've never tried it but thought it could be applicable to your situation.
> 
> -tlg


I have, yes. Used max rate on the group 11 (granular) and lowest mix rate for group 3 or group 1 AI.


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## Stellar P (Apr 13, 2018)

thatlawnguy said:


> @Stellar P by no means am I fungicide expert but have you considered the mix of group 3 and group 11 that @thegrassfactor uses? You go down at a low rate of each at the same time and it sounds like it gives better control than alternating. I've never tried it but thought it could be applicable to your situation.
> 
> -tlg


Headway G is a combo granular with group 3 & 11. I've seen others recommend it, but within a alternating program. Not familiar with thegrassfactor's fungicide program. I bet the group 3 & 11 combo would work for me as a preventative in the springtime, but right now I need curitave rates and multiple alternating doses because the Gray Leaf Spot is out of control. That comic is definetly something I'll be trying out.


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## thatlawnguy (Aug 16, 2018)

@Stellar P If interested here is his video on it: 



(jump to 7:30 if you just want to hear him talk about the mix). Basically it is a mix just like Headway (half rate of each) and he uses it as a curative (for brown patch in this case) and has a 28 day residual vs. 14 for just propiconazole. If that is the case it could possibly save a little money by spacing out half of your reapplications.

-tlg


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## iFisch3224 (Jun 11, 2018)

Group 11 granulars typically last 28 days. I will use a group 11 granular in the spring and summer, here in FL. Liquid apps in between. At least that's my plan for 2019.


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## Stellar P (Apr 13, 2018)

thatlawnguy said:


> @Stellar P If interested here is his video on it:
> (jump to 7:30 if you just want to hear him talk about the mix). Basically it is a mix just like Headway (half rate of each) and he uses it as a curative (for brown patch in this case) and has a 28 day residual vs. 14 for just propiconazole. If that is the case it could possibly save a little money by spacing out half of your reapplications.
> 
> -tlg


Nice! Thanks for the video link. Definitely going to look into mixing the two for next year as a preventative. That spreader is Bad-A!


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## TXAggie13 (Aug 28, 2018)

As an update:

Did the Bug Destroyer treatment on 8/28 and noticed an improvement pretty quickly. Stopped spreading and after a good watering and natural shower, it greened up again.

I noticed the gray leaf throughout spot checking the yard and also did a treatment a few days ago with Disease Ex. A decent rain came through today too so I have high hopes it'll be cured.

Before:



After Bug Destroyer and heavy watering:


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## iFisch3224 (Jun 11, 2018)

Looks strong!! Nicely done!!


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## thatlawnguy (Aug 16, 2018)

Nice recovery and you got the fungicide down just in time for all this rain. :thumbup: Going forward keep an eye on those areas. In my backyard I usually see insect pressure start in the same spots.

-tlg


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## TXAggie13 (Aug 28, 2018)

Thanks for all the guidance everyone. I was kicking myself not seeing the leaf tears earlier. Pulled my blade again and it was butter knife dull. I guess getting the yard healthy and thick again takes its toll on a blade. Im definitely going to keep a closer eye on it from now on.

This yards been a labor for the last 18 months. We bought the house and it was an absolute wreck. All weeds and was about 12 inches deep when we viewed the house. Wife and I bought the house as a fixer upper but the yard was definitely something I knew I needed to tackle. Lurking on here has been a great help.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

I've got a question for everyone. Have y'all notice grey leaf spot coming up even though you're spraying fungcides. I'm spraying once a month, this is my first year doing this, and I found a small patch of grey leaf spot. Of course I sprayed it with propiconazole at the cure rate, but m wondering how can I stop fungus peroid?

As of now I have on hand : propiconazole, 3336 clearlys, and Eagle 20.

Still need to order aramda


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## iFisch3224 (Jun 11, 2018)

CenlaLowell said:


> I've got a question for everyone. Have y'all notice grey leaf spot coming up even though you're spraying fungcides. I'm spraying once a month, this is my first year doing this, and I found a small patch of grey leaf spot. Of course I sprayed it with propiconazole at the cure rate, but m wondering how can I stop fungus peroid?
> 
> As of now I have on hand : propiconazole, 3336 clearlys, and Eagle 20.
> 
> Still need to order aramda


Good morning - 

I would do a "perimeter" spray of the spot(s). ie 1-2' circle/square around the problem area with said fungicide to help prevent the fungus from spreading, and just keep a good eye on surrounding areas of spots/problem areas on the healthy grass to make sure it isn't creeping or spreading.

For instance, when I did a blanket app of post-emerg weed, I also did 2 (about 3-4') passes on either of my neighbors' yard, to kill/prevent further weeds from spreading into my yard.

Now if your question is how you can stop it, period, I don't think you can. Preventative is going to be the best thing you can do. Since I had patches/spots all over the entire yard (front, sides and back) I've just been doing blanket apps of the entire yard this year, to prevent any outbreaks from totally consuming any part of my yard.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

iFisch3224 said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> > I've got a question for everyone. Have y'all notice grey leaf spot coming up even though you're spraying fungcides. I'm spraying once a month, this is my first year doing this, and I found a small patch of grey leaf spot. Of course I sprayed it with propiconazole at the cure rate, but m wondering how can I stop fungus peroid?
> ...


Hey,

What teejet tips do you use to spray your fungicides? I'm trying to pin point why I'm still having problems when I'm spraying all these chemicals in my yard.


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## iFisch3224 (Jun 11, 2018)

CenlaLowell said:


> iFisch3224 said:
> 
> 
> > CenlaLowell said:
> ...


What _problems_ are you "having"?


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

iFisch3224 said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> > iFisch3224 said:
> ...


After all three months of spraying I'm still finding grey leaf spot in my yard. It's not bad enough that you can tell without pulling a sampke, but I thought it should be gone by now. I don't know you watch videos where people spray and the fungus is gone in two weeks. Maybe my expectations is out of wack.


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## iFisch3224 (Jun 11, 2018)

CenlaLowell said:


> iFisch3224 said:
> 
> 
> > CenlaLowell said:
> ...


Could have been worse than, in the videos. I've been battling it all year - we have had "prime" fungus growing conditions nearly all year - and if you got it early, and didn't control it, I'm finding it hard to keep it from dying off completely.

High humidity, lots of rain, and moderately high temps (mid 90's). What's your weather like?


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

iFisch3224 said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> > iFisch3224 said:
> ...


High humidity, always morning dew on the grass, 90-100 temps, very little rain


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## iFisch3224 (Jun 11, 2018)

CenlaLowell said:


> iFisch3224 said:
> 
> 
> > CenlaLowell said:
> ...


I still have it, believe it or not.. (taken this morning)


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Looks can be deceiving



Heartbreaking



@iFisch3224


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## iFisch3224 (Jun 11, 2018)

Yes they can.. yard looks good as well.

Remind me again on what you're using, how often and are you applying at max rates?

I know you mentioned the "top 3" earlier..


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

iFisch3224 said:


> Yes they can.. yard looks good as well.
> 
> Remind me again on what you're using, how often and are you applying at max rates?
> 
> I know you mentioned the "top 3" earlier..


3336 1oz/1k propiconazole 2oz/1k, I forgot how I applied eagle
Been applying once a month


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## thatlawnguy (Aug 16, 2018)

Here's a link to some info on grey leaf spot. Go down to the table and they rate the effectiveness of various fungicides. https://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheet/gray-leaf-spot-on-st-augustinegrass/

If you're only applying 1x per month that might be okay for some (azoxystrobin = 28 days) but for others like propiconazole, 3336, and eagle 20 will need to be reapplied/rotated after 14 days. When you say once per month are you only applying one fungicide once a month or all three once a month?

-tlg


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## iFisch3224 (Jun 11, 2018)

CenlaLowell said:


> iFisch3224 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes they can.. yard looks good as well.
> ...


I'd be applying max rate every 7-10 days. Maybe every 14 days if it isn't too rainy. Most of these recommend to apply every 14 days. Matt @ thegrassfactor recommends something between 7 and 10 days.


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