# Take all patch / take all root rot / Bermuda decline



## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

I'm trying to do a Bermuda grow-in on my front yard (4K sqft) after the previous owners neglected the lawn for years. I started with about 30% Bermuda and would say I'm up to about 70% coverage all thanks to the valuable information from this forum!

I believe I have take all root rot which is impacting some spots in the lawn. I have sections of weak Bermuda, no growth, and I am easily able to pull up the grass and see that the roots are tiny (1/8-1/4 of an inch). Some sections have already completely died.

The research I've done has found that the best approach is preventative fungicides in the spring and fall. I did do a preventative app of Propiconazole and azoxy in the spring. I'm thinking it wasn't strong enough or it helped some areas of the lawn, but I just wouldn't know the difference.

The second thing I've found, is using peat moss top dressing to help lower the soil ph. And lastly using compost top dressing is supposed to help but only if you decide to go organic. Fungicides will kill the beneficial fungus in the compost.

I've applied curative rates of Thiophanate Methyl and azoxy on 6/6. Then on 6/10 I added 8 compressed bags of 3.2 cubic yards of peat moss spread over 4000 Sqft. Then on 6/14 I applied curative rates of Thiophanate Methyl and propiconazole.

Over the same time frame I've spoon fed .75 lbs of nitrogen, applied an application of micro green, RGS, humic 12, and panterra. My soil PH is 6.8.

I've seen some visual improvements in certain sections. Other sections still look the same.

Am I doing anything wrong? Any other suggestions to help achieve 100% grow-in by season end? Should I add more peat moss only to the sections that are struggling? Should I try foilar feeding?

Edit:
Prime Source Propiconazole 14.3 Select and Cleary 3336 F were applied 2 oz per 1000 in 2 gallons of water using turbo teejet 11004 (red) at 60 psi.

Scott's disease x granular 4lbs per 1000.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Easyluck said:


> I'm trying to do a Bermuda grow-in on my front yard (4K sqft) after the previous owners neglected the lawn for years. I started with about 30% Bermuda and would say I'm up to about 70% coverage all thanks to the valuable information from this forum!
> 
> I believe I have take all root rot which is impacting some spots in the lawn. I have sections of weak Bermuda, no growth, and I am easily able to pull up the grass and see that the roots are tiny (1/8-1/4 of an inch). Some sections have already completely died.
> 
> ...


Can you add some photos? There are some very smart fungus specialists on here that may be able to spot something you're missing.


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

Here are some photos.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I would not assume anything without a soil test. yes a soil test. pH, nutrient levels. That makes a difference as to how well Bermuda performs. Take all Patch does not commonly affect rough cut common Bermuda growing on dirt. Normally a problem on golf greens mowed at 0.1" growing on sand and not fertilized at high levels.


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

Here is my soil test results from earlier in the year.



Soil texture is a Loam.



And 30 foot away from the above pictures the turf looks like this.


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

I think my soil test indicates that fertility is good but could someone with more expertise confirm?

I'm taking a tissue sample to the local county extension this afternoon to determine what disease or pest I'm dealing with.


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

Take all root in Bermuda...I'd be surprised. Microscope is the best to determine they say.

I have, had root rot and those require niche fungicide$


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

Did you maybe overdo the pre-m in those areas, or rain washed more pre-m to those areas? Hard to tell but I think I see some chemical root-pruning in that pic.

I applied pre-m early in my attempted grow-in after advice from the internet...bad idea.


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

It's possible. I've been holding off on reapplying a 2 month rate of prodiamine for that very reason.

I applied dimension on 2/9 0.75 oz per 1000.

Then I did a low rate of prodiamine 0.2 oz per 1000 on 3/20.

I've done 30 day intervals of 1 oz per 1000 permethrin starting on 3/20.

On 5/1, I did a blanket application of blindside at .15 oz per 1000 and did a repeat application on 5/20 at 0.08 oz per 1000.

I submitted a tissue sample to the local county extension today. They said tomorrow or Monday I would have the results.


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

Update from the county extension.

"Ninety percent of the roots are stunted and clubbed. This is usually the result of dinitro-aniline herbicide injury (prodiamine, Barricade, etc.).

Of course, these stunted roots make the grass easy to pull up. This condition is often confused with nematode injury."

I applied 0.2 oz per 1000 (.56 Lbs./A or the 90 day control rate) of prodiamine on 3/20. The label states not to exceed more than 0.3 oz./1000 sf when sprigging. For a grow-in I thought 0.2 would be ok.

I did calibrate my sprayer and I used 4 gallons of water to treat 4000 sf. I first noticed symptoms about 70 days after that application. Today would mark 94 days post application. Only some sections of the lawn are showing symptoms. Since applying fungicide and peat moss, the grass is turning greener and it feels firmer to the ground.

Is it likely that pre-emergent is the cause?

Another close-up from last week.



This is from last week.



This is 7 days later.



Any additional thoughts would be appreciated.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

If you have clubbed roots, from pre em apps, quit applying prodiamine, dithiopyr, or pendametalin.

Your options are:
1 Go post em only until the roots recover.

2. Ignore the label and switch to oxadiazon for your pre em apps until your roots recover.

3. Go post em only until fall and then use siamzine and monument for your pre/post em for poa managment, along with a very likely broadcast app of glyphosate in late January or early February when everything is dormant.

My vote, oxadiazon now. 0.25lb of N a week, cut regularly, irrigate infrequently, and quit messing with it, and then evaluate your pre em decision in September/October.


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

Thanks @@Movingshrub !

Again I've only applied a full rate of dithiopyr late winter and a follow up low rate of prodiamine. My 12,000 sf lawn only has a few scattered and grouped areas where this is an issue. I've aerated and I've attempted to sprig the areas using a screw driver to dig a hole 4-6 inches to set the sprig in.

I guess Im a little surprised to hear that pre-m is the cause and am trying to understand how that could of happened. Perhaps I had a sprayer malfunction in those areas or walked too slow. Idk I feel a little silly if that's the case.

Maybe I'll send in a sample for nematodes. Is that even a possibility or would it be best to just continue with good cultural practices?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

That is Pre damage. When Nematodes are a problem all of the grass turns yellow and some of it dies in patches. Roots are not necessarily clubbed. They are missing with Nematodes.


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

Thanks @Greendoc !

I'm sure you thought of this but just to put my mind at ease could Trichodorus/Paratrichodorus (stubby root nematodes) be the cause?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Not likely. Your grass is too green for that to be an issue.


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

Ok thanks again!


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Wondering if instead of just focusing on Nitrogen it wouldn't be a good idea to so something more balanced, to help with root growth, stress, etc...like a starter fertilizer or 20-20-20 or 10-10-10 or something?


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## lilslugger (Aug 7, 2019)

Bermuda. Any ideas on what the yellow, sickly looking grass clumps are suffering from? Everything to the right of the yellow line is sod that I laid down a couple years ago so the color has never quite matched the rest of the yard, but it's always done better in terms of color and growth. This year the sod area has been slow to green up and has some parts that are doing just fine and others that are yellowed and like small tufts. I put down DiseaseEx this week. Will apply iron supplements in May. I'm thinking it suffered from excessive water retention in that area, can address with sand in May.

Based on what I've read, do I have nematodes or Bermuda decline? The yellowed tufts come up with little to no roots.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

There were some unseasonable cold fronts that came through this spring and pretty much has slowed us all down. Patience is certainly on order for me too. Other than that... did you put down any pre-m this year? Any chance it could have overlapped and gone on heavy in that area? Also, how much sun does that area get? It looks close to the house.


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## Jeremy3292 (Apr 30, 2020)

How would PreM have caused clubbed roots in an established lawn? This wasn't new sod you put PreM down on; the roots would already below the PreM barrier line...


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Jeremy3292 said:


> How would PreM have caused clubbed roots in an established lawn? This wasn't new sod you put PreM down on; the roots would already below the PreM barrier line...


Just asking...

High traffic area where stolons won't tack properly could cause this look. It's not about what is there and established, it's about the Bermuda being able to repair itself from whatever ails it (worms, fungus, insects, traffic, drought).


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## lilslugger (Aug 7, 2019)

@Redtwin @Jeremy3292 I did put pre-em down at a rate of .375oz/k on Feb 22. I could have overlapped and gone heavy but not intentionally. The area is next to the house but it gets full sun during the day. It does retain water as it's a bit of a low spot between the tree and the house though. I rolled the high spots around that section in April after heavy rains in an attempt to reduce the low spot., maybe the pressure was too much? I'm just not sure why the roots are gone.


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## Jeremy3292 (Apr 30, 2020)

lilslugger said:


> @Redtwin @Jeremy3292 I did put pre-em down at a rate of .375oz/k on Feb 22. I could have overlapped and gone heavy but not intentionally. The area is next to the house but it gets full sun during the day. It does retain water as it's a bit of a low spot between the tree and the house though. I rolled the high spots around that section in April after heavy rains in an attempt to reduce the low spot., maybe the pressure was too much? I'm just not sure why the roots are gone.


I wouldn't expect PreM to have any clubbing effect on an established lawn; I put heavy apps of PreM down on my lawn personally. See article below (I don't know how accurate it is, but it made sense to me).

http://www.garden-counselor-lawn-care.com/preemergent-for-crabgrass-in-bermuda.html

Also, I am in upstate SC and we've had a VERY mild spring so I'm trying to keep telling myself to not worry too much about the lawn (except for your standard fert apps, maint, etc.) until at least Memorial Day. We've only had a few days in the 80s this year. Later this week the high is 66 and the low is 40! Unheard of for this time of the year.


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## Hashwad (Mar 27, 2019)

It looks like I'm having the same problem. Noticed some small areas throughout the fron and back yard. The little tufts looked kind of sickly and dense. I tug on them and they come up with no roots


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

I was told that it's very possible when you see clumps like that with short roots you have a bermuda stunt mite problem. There is no cost efficient way to get rid of them. Only thing you can do is focus on bettering your turf


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

That doesn't look like "witch brooming" you will see from nematodes. That looks like something eating your roots (maybe grubs or mole crickets). It could be root rot but have you done a dish soap test? What does the area it came from look like?


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

So I can give an update. I had my soil tested for nematodes last year to rule that out. Below is the report. Some but not enough to cause any significant damage.

So I accepted that I over applied. As the season progressed I continued mowing, watering and fertilizing and the Bermuda completely filled in.

Then as the fall approach, I noticed what I thought was Bermuda all season long, growing tall But the seed heads were very different. Turns out that that section of the lawn was nimblewill.

Nimblewill has shallow roots and when it tried to spread across bare dirt that had pre-m applied to it, it caused clubbed roots. The Bermuda had some problems tacking down but was eventually able to penetrate the soil.

I think the pre-m definitely slowed the rate of my Bermuda grow in. If I did a Bermuda grow in again, I think I would use a very low rate of prodiamine or look for a pre-m with a different mode of action. The good news is the stunted roots of the nimblewill killed some of it.


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## Hashwad (Mar 27, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> That doesn't look like "witch brooming" you will see from nematodes. That looks like something eating your roots (maybe grubs or mole crickets). It could be root rot but have you done a dish soap test? What does the area it came from look like?


Yep. Turn out I got a Billbug problem. I had done a soap test up came up with nothing. Did another soap test a couple of days ago and found several adult Hunter Billbugs. I think when I did my first test, they were in the larval stage. Got some Telstar on the way.
I tell ya, this lawn has been a chore to correct, Its come a long way from last year. I have reached "Good from a far, but far from good"


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