# Cutting the Cable Cord



## aarogb

Hi Everyone,

Our Spectrum bill has ballooned to $190.00 a month and I am really trying to knock it down. I have heard about Youtube TV and Sling among others.

I was curious if any of you have tried these or any others? Do you like them? Have they saved you a lot of money?

Thanks

Aaron


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## Mightyquinn

I cut the cord about 4-5 years ago and haven't looked back and don't miss it at all and barely watch any TV now. You need to make a list of what shows/stations you can't live without and then base your streaming services off of that.

When I cut the cord I bought a TIVO Romio and a good outdoor antenna so I could still get local stations and then we just went with Netflix and Hulu for TV shows that the wife likes to watch. I was paying about the same as you were with DirecTV and it was just getting ridiculous as I found myself watching shows just because they were on, now I find myself with a lot more "free" time as I am not consumed with what's on TV anymore.


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## dfw_pilot

+1 @Mightyquinn. We cut the cord 8 years ago and haven't missed it at all. OTA antenna plus a Tivo Romeo and we're set. Add YouTube/Netflix/Prime to taste.

Besides more free time and lower blood pressure, my kids don't hardly know we have TV at all, haha.


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## TulsaFan

We fired Cox roughly in 2015. Purchased a Tivo Romeo with lifetime subscription and added a 1TB harddrive.

Started streaming with SlingTV. Then, went to Directv Now (AT&T TV) and was a beta tester for them. Switched back to SlingTV when they added Discovery because At&T kept increasing their prices.

Super happy that I left Cox!

I live in a neighborhood that has fiber for my broadband needs.


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## TN Hawkeye

We cut the cord about a year ago. Went with an OTA antenna, Netflix, Disney plus, and YouTube tv. Saving about $60 a month. Just be prepared that your internet bill will go up if you have it in a bundle now.


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## Grass Clippins

If you're lucky enough to be in a Locast area you won't need an antenna for local channels. Download the app and you're good to go.


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## Getting Fat

cut the cord here about 10 years ago. buy youtube TV during football season only. Netflix + prime + OTA = all you need. 2 kids, house has 1 TV.


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## Ware

Fiber internet, YouTube TV, Netflix and Prime. I don't know if I'm saving anything, but it beats the hell out of dealing with Cox. :thumbup:

Unfortunately, I think I paid $35/mo when I signed up for YouTube TV - it's about $70/mo now. :|


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## TN Hawkeye

I'm really starting to sour on Netflix. Since so many channels have started to have their own streaming service it seems like the quality of their selection has gone down in the last year. Some of their original content is good but I'm not sure if it's worth the monthly price.


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## BermudaBoy

I cut the cord about 6 years ago and haven't looked back. I have Netflix, "borrowed" my brother's Disney Plus account and have AT&T TV Now(the Mrs. wanted some type of live TV and I get a nice deal on it through my phone plan). I pay $125/month and that covers my internet (400 down/20 up) and all of the streaming services I use. Anything that's not on my streaming services I find online and throw on my media server and keep it moving.


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## Thejarrod

I don't really consider myself a cord cutter because I've never had cable tv and we also pay for content, it's just not through a cable tv service. Here is our setup. 
1. All TVs have Roku platform in some way ( native in the TCL tv or roku stick). It's important to make sure your tv is able to accept antenna input. 
2. Antenna on the roof. Indoor antenna stink compared to one on the roof. 
3. In addition to Over the air tv , we have amazon prime, Netflix, Disney, boomerang (classic cartoons for the kids) 
So we don't pay for cable tv, but we PAY for lots of content.


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## wiread

8 years without any cable. Do have Netflix and Prime. I obviously don't miss it and could do without netflix or prime. About the only thing I like to do is throw on a good science/nature/war documentary after everyone has gone to bed on occasion. But I could survive without it i'm sure.


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## Harts

I have started the process of doing so in prep for our move in a few weeks. My TV service was $105/ mth and I realized that outside of the sport channels (TSN and Sportsnet in Canada) I don't really watch anything else.

I'll be adding the streaming service for both TSN and Sportsnet which are approx. $20 each/mth - which will save me $65 per month. I'm already paying for Netflix and Disney+ so those don't factor in to my savings.


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## MasterMech

Been off the sauce since 2011 when DirecTV thought they were worth $200/mo. I'm not a sports fan, and the MSM isn't worth the price of admission so I don't miss it at all. Happy to be without in fact. I now live in an area with better OTA coverage, I may go that route one day just because. We have access to Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, Prime, AppleTV (free for now) and I spend most of my downtime on YouTube skipping ads and watching Lawn/Car/Farming vids.


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## Powhatan

How are you people accessing streaming services when cutting the cable cord?


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## MasterMech

Powhatan said:


> How are you people accessing streaming services when cutting the cable cord?


Cut your cable package back to internet only. Many have found they can live without VoIP telephone and massive TV packages that are typically included in cable service bundles. Your internet bill will probably rise somewhat but you still end up with a significantly lower bill overall.


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## Powhatan

MasterMech said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> How are you people accessing streaming services when cutting the cable cord?
> 
> 
> 
> Cut your cable package back to internet only. Many have found they can live without VoIP telephone and massive TV packages that are typically included in cable service bundles. Your internet bill will probably rise somewhat but you still end up with a significantly lower bill overall.
Click to expand...

Dropping services ... oh I see. I'm showing my age here. Decades ago cutting the cable cord meant exactly that, no cable/satellite service to the house. Those streaming subscription services (Hulu, Netflix, Apple TV, etc) and wireless data services bring costs back up and will continue to. It's a catch 22.


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## MasterMech

Powhatan said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> How are you people accessing streaming services when cutting the cable cord?
> 
> 
> 
> Cut your cable package back to internet only. Many have found they can live without VoIP telephone and massive TV packages that are typically included in cable service bundles. Your internet bill will probably rise somewhat but you still end up with a significantly lower bill overall.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dropping services ... oh I see. I'm showing my age here. Decades ago cutting the cable cord meant exactly that, no cable/satellite service to the house. Those streaming subscription services (Hulu, Netflix, Apple TV, etc) and wireless data services bring costs back up and will continue to. It's a catch 22.
Click to expand...

One could argue that utilizing the streaming services is superior vs the "old" way of broadcast TV/Cable and a DVR, even if the cost were to equalize. And even though I'm not a sports fan, I get tired of the warning letters that so and so isn't happy with their contract and channels x, y, and z will be unavailable as of xx/xx/xxxx for an indefinite period. And no, your cost of service will not decrease for this period either BTW.

I am one of few whose internet is not supplied by the cable company. But that will probably change in the next 6-12 months as our neighborhood gets fiber internet installed throughout. (finally!)


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## g-man

There is another saving with going with just internet and streaming services, fees. Broadcast fees, regional fees, equipment fees, access fees, and any other fee comcast adds to your bill.


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## MasterMech

g-man said:


> There is another saving with going with just internet and streaming services, fees. Broadcast fees, regional fees, equipment fees, access fees, and any other fee comcast adds to your bill.


I wonder how long this will be an advantage of streaming services? It's not as if the content is changing dramatically, just the delivery methods. So what happens when we're all on streaming services and Uncle Sam and the Broadband providers realize the shrinking revenue? :|


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## g-man

This is going to be the real problem.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/11/comcasts-data-cap-finally-goes-nationwide-in-expansion-to-12-more-states/

Last month we did 920GB. A 1.2TB limit is very close. Zoom virtual class, work video web meetings, netflix and disney plus do use a lot of bandwidth. Comcast has plenty of capacity, they are just trying to get another revenue stream replace the cable tv one.


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## etakmit

I got rid of my directv and went with youtube TV. their pricing continues to increase however. For now it's still significantly cheaper. On top of it I have Prime and Disney + and Hulu bundle (as part of my VZW phone plan).


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## Thejarrod

Thanks for that link @g-man 
I'm right on the edge of 1.2, and just tipped over it This month. I had no idea. We never get a bill.


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## Ware

> ...YouTube TV started at $35/month in 2016 and rose to $40/month in 2018. By 2019, Google raised the streaming TV service's price to $50/month, and last year, it rose yet again to $65/month. YouTube TV nearly doubled in price in four years, which is far more egregious than anything we've seen in the cable/satellite industry... Source


I hate it, but it's still easier than dealing with Cox Cable. :|


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## testwerke

Just ditched Cox for gigabit fiber from the local electrical coop. Full symmetric gigabit connection with no bandwidth cap. Hoping it stays unlimited forever. It's $10 cheaper per month for 1000/1000 over the Cox 300/30 connection.


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## Getting Fat

Ware said:


> ...YouTube TV started at $35/month in 2016 and rose to $40/month in 2018. By 2019, Google raised the streaming TV service's price to $50/month, and last year, it rose yet again to $65/month. YouTube TV nearly doubled in price in four years, which is far more egregious than anything we've seen in the cable/satellite industry... Source
> 
> 
> 
> I hate it, but it's still easier than dealing with Cox Cable. :|
Click to expand...

FYI - you can pause YouTube TV subscriptions.

I only want cable for football. That's it. I subscribe from Aug 15 to after the Super Bowl. I then pause my subscription (which pauses my billing) until next Aug 15. Takes 3 minutes to do online. No transferring to "cancellation department" or "billing department" or whatever other games they play. No fees whatsoever to do so.


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## Phids

Kind of lost interest in most football in the last year, but once in a while if I might want watch a game, I could do it for free using Locast. I don't think it's available in all markets yet, but you get local broadcasts for free. College games on ESPN3 have also been a good option for several years.


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## nichord

Amazon has the Fire TV Recast box that can use your digital antenna to get your live tv into a dvr system. You can add additional Fire TV sticks to other TVs to get stations and DVR on other TVs. Between Prime, Dis+, Apple+ and HBO Max that comes with other services then I barely watch TV other than news after cutting the cord last year. COX has run some internet deals lately with unlimited cap on their fiber service (which I picked up with my ATT promo expired a few months back). ATT will remove the CAP if you have unlimited data on mobile with them. Data CAPS are real peta and have to be aware if you are streaming a lot after cutting the cord. It is the cable companies way of getting your money in the wake of losing cable service from them. SUCH A FRAUD!


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## TN Hawkeye

g-man said:


> This is going to be the real problem.
> 
> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/11/comcasts-data-cap-finally-goes-nationwide-in-expansion-to-12-more-states/
> 
> Last month we did 920GB. A 1.2TB limit is very close. Zoom virtual class, work video web meetings, netflix and disney plus do use a lot of bandwidth. Comcast has plenty of capacity, they are just trying to get another revenue stream replace the cable tv one.


Both my wife and one of my sons likes to sleep with the tv on. When we cut cable I knew this was going to be a major issue with our data usage. I bought a fairly inexpensive HD antenna and used the cable junction box on the side of the house to give access to the entire home. Now my sons sleeps with PBS Kids on and we sleep with the Buzzer channel on.


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## g-man

I gave up on comcast. Switched to fiber (metro net) without data caps. They still need to bury the fiber in the lawn, but that's a small price to pay to not having to monitor how much data my kids are using.


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## Reel Low Dad

g-man said:


> I gave up on comcast. Switched to fiber (metro net) without data caps. They still need to bury the fiber in the lawn, but that's a small price to pay to not having to monitor how much data my kids are using.


You may want to just bury it yourself. I learned the hard way.


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## g-man

I did the areas around the mulch beds and sprinklers at 6in deep. All they have to do is a straight line on the side of the house around 60ft long. It is just too long for me to do it by hand.


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## AndyS

In the age of COVID going high bandwidth (a gig where possible) and cutting the cord just enables us to do more with less.

Working from home / occasional school days over video / more connected devices... It helps with it all.

I don't regret going YouTube TV for a minute, but I do wish they'd replace that music during the ad breaks...


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## Ware

AndyS said:


> I don't regret going YouTube TV for a minute...


Same, but I got this email from Roku this morning. I really despise these types of disputes. I was hoping I had left this sort of thing behind when I got rid of cable, but apparently not...


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## AndyS

Ware said:


> AndyS said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't regret going YouTube TV for a minute...
> 
> 
> 
> Same, but I got this email from Roku this morning. I really despise these types of disputes. I was hoping I had left this sort of thing behind when I got rid of cable, but apparently not...
Click to expand...

Yeah, these types of 'content wars' drive me crazy. Ditto between Amazon and Google. I hope it all calms down, because the only one that really loses in these battles are the customers.


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## Belgianbillie

I do 70 dollar 300mbps Internet from Spectrum/Comcast. Honestly, with my amazon prime, netflix, hulu and hbo max im pretty set, but still paying (10+16+7.99+14.99) a lot. In total about 120. Much happier than cable though.


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## ionicatoms

We bought the YouTube Premium subscription (good for 5 accounts) back during the election (to avoid ads) with the intention of stopping it but it turns out none of us can tolerate YouTube ads anymore....


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## Phids

ionicatoms said:


> We bought the YouTube Premium subscription (good for 5 accounts) back during the election (to avoid ads) with the intention of stopping it but it turns out none of us can tolerate YouTube ads anymore....


I started paying for Google Play Music as my main streaming service (before it was consolidated into YouTube Premium), which automatically came with YouTube Premium as a perk. Being able to watch YT without ads has made it a much more enjoyable experience. Also, it allows YT videos to be downloaded, which makes taking flights all the more enjoyable.


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## ionicatoms

Phids said:


> Also, it allows YT videos to be downloaded, which makes taking flights all the more enjoyable.


Great tip! I didn't know. Thx


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## Ware

These content disputes (e.g. YouTube TV vs. NBC) drive me crazy. Between the price hikes and content disputes,streaming services are becoming just as bad as the cable companies we left.


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## Amoo316

Ware said:


> These content disputes (e.g. YouTube TV vs. NBC) drive me crazy. Between the price hikes and content disputes,streaming services are becoming just as bad as the cable companies we left.


Agreed. I joined Youtube TV the last year of the Fox Regional Sports contract which they weren't able to renew. Now we're facing down losing NBC networks as well.

I'm currently test driving FUBO TV. The big loss there is TBS & TNT for me during basketball season.

I have no issue with competition in the market, but the exclusivity things always bother me. Now that we've got all of the networks trying to prop up their own streaming services and get a slice of the pie, I'm not thirllled with the direction any of it looks to be going. If things continue this way it's going to be like picking a commercial style television package where you pay $5 here, $7 there to get the channels you really want and trim all the fat.


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## Phids

Speaking of, a few weeks ago Locast closed its doors after it lost a legal dispute. It was the only company that offered streaming of local network channels for free. It was a non-profit company, but apparently the courts didn't like what it was doing, and put the smack down. Now I can't watch local channels unless I hook up an antenna, and that's a bit iffy.


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## falconsfan

You may be able to save some money by using spectrum mobile. We have Xfinity mobile and it's far cheaper than Verizon. They use Verizon towers so the coverage is identical. Worth a look.


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## Thick n Dense

Check out kodi and Pluto... free sources.

Cables a joke. Its almost like they want us to cancel it.

The more people that cancel the higher the price goes.


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## Drix

Dropped cable went Satellite in 2007. 10 mins before the ball dropped going into 2008 the dish died canceled all of it. Hulu just started and was free then, we paid the extra for Hulu plus for no commercials. I found myself with extensive extra time not watching TV and haven't looked back. The only think have now is Cable internet and if home 5G gets to my area and is fast enough I wont have that either. Between my Plex, Hulu, Netflix, and Amazon there is sufficient entertainment when I don't have anything else to do.


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## ALPHA

I wanted to get Spectrum at my new house, got quoted 38K to run a line. So I got StarLink instead. Streaming is via Apple TV and life is good! The speed from Spectrum was better but too cost prohibitive.


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## MasterMech

Thick n Dense said:


> ....
> 
> Cables a joke. Its almost like they want us to cancel it.
> 
> The more people that cancel the higher the price goes.


It's almost like the broadcasting companies WANT us to switch to mini-bundles and microtransactions ...... :nod:

It works for me, I'm not really into sports, and the news is... well... not worth paying for. Let's leave it at that.

Everything the kids, the wife, and I want to watch is available via YouTube, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney+ (which includes Hulu and ESPN+), or Apple TV+. I might consider springing for YouTube Premium just to make the ads go away. They aren't bad if you are watching longer videos, but when you get into the 5-10 minute stuff.... yeesh. Add all of that up on top of my bill for Internet service, and I'm paying close to what I was for DirecTV back in 2009, and getting a bunch more content.


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## ionicatoms

MasterMech said:


> I might consider springing for YouTube Premium just to make the ads go away.


We have no plans to drop YouTube premium. I had fully expected to drop it after the election season, but it's so nice to avoid the ads.


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## Amoo316

Do y'all really not run adblock plus and Adblock for Youtube?

I have them on both firefox and chrome on every screen I own.


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## ionicatoms

Amoo316 said:


> Do y'all really not run adblock plus and Adblock for Youtube?
> 
> I have them on both firefox and chrome on every screen I own.


Does it work on a Samsung TV or a Nintendo Switch?


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## MasterMech

Amoo316 said:


> Do y'all really not run adblock plus and Adblock for Youtube?
> 
> I have them on both firefox and chrome on every screen I own.


LG tv for me is my part screen for YT.


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## Amoo316

Sorry guys, I just assumed everybody watched youtube on the CPUs like I do, then I remember not everybody is rocking 2 32" screens


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## Ware

Amoo316 said:


> Sorry guys, I just assumed everybody watched youtube on the CPUs like I do, then I remember not everybody is rocking 2 32" screens


Yeah most people use mobile devices. Traffic on this site is over 65% mobile, around 31% desktop, and 3% tablet. I bet YouTube is even higher.

I mostly use the YouTube mobile app. When I want to view it on a larger screen, I send it from the YouTube app on my phone up to the smart TV in whichever room I'm in. They have really streamlined that process - it functions like Apple AirPlay.


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## Ware

It sounds like YouTube TV and NBC extended their deal, so I won't have to figure out another way to watch the race at Talladega today.


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## Frankzzz

Cut the [cable] cord and added a big OTA antenna above the roofline, 6 or 7 years ago.
84 channels. And they're in better quality than they were on cable. It's great.
Then I added a Roku and get tons more free content. Plenty of great free Roku channels - Pluto, Xumo, Roku Channel, Crackle, Tubi, Popcorn Flix, IMDb TV, Plex, WatchFreeFlix, Peacock TV, Stirr, Fawesome, FilmRise.
No subscriptions for anything so I don't pay a penny.


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## Amoo316

Ware said:


> Amoo316 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry guys, I just assumed everybody watched youtube on the CPUs like I do, then I remember not everybody is rocking 2 32" screens
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah most people use mobile devices. Traffic on this site is over 65% mobile, around 31% desktop, and 3% tablet. I bet YouTube is even higher.
> 
> I mostly use the YouTube mobile app. When I want to view it on a larger screen, I send it from the YouTube app on my phone up to the smart TV in whichever room I'm in. They have really streamlined that process - it functions like Apple AirPlay.
Click to expand...

ABP works on mobile


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## Ware

Amoo316 said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amoo316 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry guys, I just assumed everybody watched youtube on the CPUs like I do, then I remember not everybody is rocking 2 32" screens
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah most people use mobile devices. Traffic on this site is over 65% mobile, around 31% desktop, and 3% tablet. I bet YouTube is even higher.
> 
> I mostly use the YouTube mobile app. When I want to view it on a larger screen, I send it from the YouTube app on my phone up to the smart TV in whichever room I'm in. They have really streamlined that process - it functions like Apple AirPlay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ABP works on mobile
Click to expand...

Again, I prefer the functionality of the YouTube app.


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## lawndog

How can you block ads on the Youtube app? Always getting them when I stream from phone to tv.


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## Ware

lawndog said:


> How can you block ads on the Youtube app? Always getting them when I stream from phone to tv.


YouTube Premium is the only option I am aware of.


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## Ware

First NBC, then Roku, now Disney. These YouTube TV disputes are exhausting. Access to the ESPN networks is one of the only reasons I have YouTube TV, so I paused my subscription this morning until they sort it out. It's extra frustrating/coincidental that this happened on the same day the college football bowl games kicked off.


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## g-man

I actually like the outcome of this one for now. They reduced the monthly price by $15/month. I can't agree these channels cost $15/month. There is no incentive for Disney to keep their cost down. The ideal scenario is for YouTube to provide it as an add on, but I'm sure Disney won't agree to that.

ABC, Disney, ESPN, and national geographic.

I already pay the Disney plus for the kids.


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## ionicatoms

I hope more streaming providers enable API's so devices like the TiVo Stream 4k can hide all these fragmented services behind a single content interface.

Even though the TiVo Stream is a buggy, clunky first generation device, I can definitely see the promise.


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## Ware

g-man said:


> I actually like the outcome of this one for now. They reduced the monthly price by $15/month. I can't agree these channels cost $15/month. There is no incentive for Disney to keep their cost down. The ideal scenario is for YouTube to provide it as an add on, but I'm sure Disney won't agree to that.
> 
> ABC, Disney, ESPN, and national geographic.
> 
> I already pay the Disney plus for the kids.


Correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding the only way to get access to the ESPN channels is to be subscribed to a streaming service like YouTubeTV, Sling, or Hulu + Live TV that offers them. So for anyone with any interest at all in consistent access to live sports, YouTube TV is not really a viable option until they renew the agreement with Disney.

I will not stay subscribed to YouTube TV without ESPN, even at the reduced price, because I will need to subscribe to one of their competitors to watch most of the upcoming bowl games and the college football playoffs. I may be biased, but I think YouTube TV is underestimating the number of subscribers who rely on their service for access to ESPN - especially this time of year.

We also subscribe to Disney+ for the kids, so at this moment I am leaning toward the Hulu + Live TV/Disney+/ESPN+ bundle. At $72.99/mo, it's about the same price I have been paying separately for YouTube TV and Disney+.


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## g-man

Ware, I dont watch live ESPN sports, so I dont know. In the end we are paying for the privilege to watch 20mins of ads and 40min of some content.


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## Herring

Recently added a digital antenna for the local channel college football games. For ESPN coverage I search "College Football" on YouTube and filter to live. I've found most games are on there being streamed by users. The quality of the stream is hit and miss and I wouldn't rely on it for hosting a game day party, but I do like saving the money on cable. Also I've found this will not work for any NFL games at all.


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## synergy0852

@Ware it appears YTTV has reached a deal with Disney. ESPN and other channels should be back shortly!


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## Ware

synergy0852 said:


> @Ware it appears YTTV has reached a deal with Disney. ESPN and other channels should be back shortly!


Just saw the email. Great news.


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## Katodude

So what is everyone using for an antenna. I need a Omni directional since 3 channels are in one directions, and the fourth is in an opposite direction.


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## Thejarrod

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0074H3JCS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

i've had this for about 3 years. works great for us. my situation is that I'm 24 miles away from the local Philadelphia stations and I mounted to the roof. if you have not already done this, check out https://www.antennaweb.org/ and enter your address to see what they recommend. Roof mount is by far my preferred method.


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## TulsaFan

FWIW...last week my Tivo Roamio OTA would turn on like normal with the welcome start up screen, then all lights on the front of the TiVo started flashing together (Red, blue, orange, green) and the welcome screen didn't advance.

After doing a little online reading, I replaced the OEM wall wart with this 12v 3 amp power supply from Amazon. Turns out after seven years, the original power supplied had failed and not the hard drive. Very happy that this $10 part made for an extremely easy fix.


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## DFW_Zoysia

aarogb said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Our Spectrum bill has ballooned to $190.00 a month and I am really trying to knock it down. I have heard about Youtube TV and Sling among others.
> 
> I was curious if any of you have tried these or any others? Do you like them? Have they saved you a lot of money?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Aaron


Recently went with YouTube TV and we love it.


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## jerrywil

We did it 2 years ago and never had any regrets. 
I mostly watch FuboTV. We have a firestick at home and that works just fine.
Ipvanish is one of the important things which have to be downloaded too https://www.firesticktricks.com/ipvanish-on-firestick.html. Or would you recommend any alternatives?


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## Overtaxed

The ultimate TV setup, IMHO, is a combination of:

Roku (to view on a TV)
Plex (to distribute content)
Sonnar (to direct the download of content and organize)
Newbin (to download content)
uTorrent (to download content)

Never watch a commercial again. Available anywhere you have Internet. Plays perfectly on a TV, tablet, phone. Download content if you want to go offline. It's an absolutely wonderful system.


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