# Fungicide Guide (cool season focus)



## Suburban Jungle Life

Fungicides are used to correct and prevent fungus from damaging turf. There are 2 common rates. Curative: cures a current fungus problem. Preventive: prevents a fungus problem. It is best to only use a fungicide with 1 Mode of Action (MOA)/FRAC Group no more than two consecutive applications. Resistance to fungicide is a real problem and we don't want to add to this problem. Therefore, it is best to combine 2 or more fungicides on a rotation or even in 1 application. This list is for fungicides approved for residential use. There are many other very effective fungicides but they are not labelled for residential use. Always wear protective clothing per the product label.


The italics are products which may be available in local home improvement stores.
Granular products can be spread using a fertilizer spreader.
Fungus in red generally has excellent control, green has good control, blue is ok control, and black is unknown regarding efficacy.
The $ sign is for the cost of one bottle of the product and the # sign is for the cost of application per 1000 sq ft based on a 1-5 scale, 1 being the lowest. Cost is based on preventive rate of BP or the most common fungus it treats and the smallest quantity available. Larger quantities are usually much lower #.

Anthracnose (An), Bentgrass Dead Spot (BDS), Bermudagrass Decline (BD), *Brown Patch (BP)* Brown Ring (BR), Copper Spot (CS), Crown Rot (CR), *Dollar Spot (DS)*, Downy Mildew (DM), Fairy Ring (FR), Fusarium Blight (FB), Fusarium Patch (FP), Gray Leaf Spot (GLS), Gray Snow Mold (GSM), Leaf Blight (LB), Leaf Smuts (LSm), Leaf Spot (LS), *Large Patch (LP)*, Melting Out (MO), Mini Ring (MR), Necrotic Ring Spot (NRS), Pink Patch (PP), Pink Snow Mold (PSM), Powdery Mildew (PM), *Pythium Blight (PB)*, Pythium Damping Off (PDO), Pythium Root Dysfunction (PRD), Pythium Root Rot (PRR), Red Leaf Spot (RLS), Red Thread (RT), Rust (Ru), Septoria Leaf Spot (SLS), Snow Mold (SM), Southern Blight (SB), Spring Dead Spot (SDS), Stripe Smut (SS), Summer Patch (SP), Take-all-patch (TAP), Typhula Blight (TB), Waitea Patch (WP), Yellow Patch (YP), Yellow Tuft (YT), Zonate Leaf Spot (ZLS), Zoysia Patch (ZP)

*FRAC Group 1*

*Thiophanate Methyl - 1*
An, BD, BDS, *BP*, CR, CS, *DS*, FB, FP, GLS, LB, LS, NRS, PSM, RT, Ru, SDS, SM, SP, SS, TAP, YP, ZP
_Bonide Infuse Lawn & Landscape_ (granular) $/####
Cleary 3336 DG Lite (granular) $$/###
Cleary 3336 EG $$/#
Cleary 3336 F $/###
OHP 6672 4.5F $$$$/#
OHP 6672 50 WP $/##
Quali-Pro TM 4.5 $$$$/#
Quali-Pro TM 85 WDG $$$/##
_Scotts Lawn Fungus Control_ (granular) Discontinued? $/###
Transom 4.5F $$$$/#
Transom 50 WSB $/##

*FRAC Group 3*

*Myclobutanil - 3*
An, *BP*, CR, CS, *DS*, FB, FP, GLS, *LP*, LSm, MO, NRS, PSM, PM, RT, Ru, SDS, SLS, SP, ZLS

Eagle 0.62G (granular) $$/#####
Eagle 20 EW $/###
_Ferti-Lome F-Stop_ (granular & liquid) $/######
_Ferti-Lome F-Stop RTS_ $/######
_Monterey Fungi-Max_ $/#######
Prime Source Myclo 20EW $/###
Quali-pro Myclobutanil 20EW T&O $$$/#
_Spectracide Immunox Multi-Purpose Fungicide for Gardens_ $/######

*Propiconazole - 3*
An, *BP*, CS, CR, *DS*, FB, FP, GLS, GSM, *LP*, LS, LSm, MO, NRS, PM, PP, PSM, RT, Ru, SDS, SLS, SP, SS, TAP, YP, ZLS, ZP

Banner Maxx II $$$$$/##
_Bayer Advanced Fungus Control for Lawns_ (granular & liquid) $/####
_Black Flag Extreme Insect Plus Fungus_ (granular & liquid) $/####
_Bonide Infuse Systemic Disease Control_ $/#######
Dorado Fungicide $$$$/#
_Martin's Systemic Fungicide RTS_ $/######
Prime Source PPZ 41.8 $$$/#
Prime Source Propiconazole 14.3 Select $/##
Prophesy 0.72G (granular) $$/#####
Quali-pro Propiconazole $/#
_Spectracide Immunox Fungus Plus Insect_ $/######

*Triadimefon - 3*
An, BD, *BP*, CS, *DS*, FB, FP, FR, GLS, GSM, *LP*, LS, MO, PM, PSM, RT, Ru, SB, SP, SS, TAP, TB, ZP

Bayleton 50 $$$$/####
Bayleton FLO $$$$$$/##

*Triticonazole - 3*
An, *BP*, BR, *DS*, FP, PSM, GSM, *LP*, LS, NRS, PP, PSM, RLS, RT, Ru, SP, TAP, TB, YP, ZP

Trinity $$$/#

*FRAC Group 4*

*Mefenoxam (Metalaxyl) - 4*
DM, *PB*, PRR, YT

Prime Source Regulate Select $$$$$/#
Quali-pro Mefenoxam 2 AQ $$$/##
Subdue GR (granular) $$$/####
Subdue MAXX $$$$/##

*FRAC Group 7*

*Fluopyram - 7*
*DS* *controls nematodes

Fluopyram 500 SC by Bayer ?/?

*Flutolanil - 7*
*BP*, FR, GSM, *LP*, MR, PP, RT, SB, YP

ProStar 70 WG $$$$/#####

*Fluxapyroxad - 7*
*BP*, *DS*,* LP*, SM, SP

Xzemplar $$$$/####

*Isofetamid - 7*
*DS*

Kabuto Fungicide SC $$$/##

*Penthiopyrad - 7*
An, *BP*, *DS*, GSM, *LP*, LS, PM, PP, RT, Ru

Velista $$$$$/###

*FRAC Group 11*

*Azoxystrobin - 11* (doesn't control dollar spot)
An, *BP*, FP, FR, GLS, GSM, LS, *LP*, MO, NRS, *PB*, PP, PSM, PRR, Ru, RT, SB, SDS, SP, TAP, TB, YP, ZP

Azoxy 2SC $$$/##
Azoxy 50 WDG $$$$/##
Heritage G (granular) $$/#####
_Scotts DiseaseEX_ (granular) $/###
Strobe 2L $$$$$/#
Strobe 50WG $$$$/##

*Fluoxastrobin - 11*
An, *BP*, BR, *DS*, FP, FR, GLS, LS, MO, NRS, *PB*, PDO, PM, PP, PRD, PRR, PSM, RT, Ru, SB, SDS, SM, SP, TAP, TB, WP, YP, ZP

Fame (granular) $$/####
Fame SC $$$$$/##

*Trifloxystrobin - 11*
An, *BP*, BR, *DS*, FP, FR, GLS, LS, MO, NRS, *PB*, PDO, PM, PP, PRD, PRR, PSM, RT, Ru, SB, SDS, SM, SP, TAP, TB, WP, YP, ZP

Compass 50 WG $$$$$/###

*FRAC Group 21*

*Cyazofamid - 21*
*PB*, PDO, PRD

Segway $$$$$/######

*Combination Products*

Armada 50 WDG: Trifloxystrobin - 11 & Triadimefon - 3 $$$/##
Headway G (granular): Azoxystrobin - 11 & Propiconazole - 3 $$/#####
Pillar G Intrinsic (granular): Pyraclostrobin - 11 & Triticonazole - 3 $$/#####
Quali-pro Strobe Pro G (granular): Azoxystrobin - 11 & Propiconazole - 3 $$/#####
Exteris Stressguard: Fluopyram - 7 & Trifloxystrobin - 11 $$$$$/##

*Organic & Alternative Fungicides*

Actinovate SP - OMRI listed (Bacteria)
Bonide Liquid Copper Fungicide
Bonide Neem Oil
Bonide Orchard Spray (Sulfur)
Double Nickel 55 - OMRI listed (Bacteria)
Double Nickel LC - OMRI listed (Bacteria)
_Dr. Earth Final Stop_ - OMRI listed (Oil)
EcoVia 3in1 -OMRI listed (Oil)
Monterey Complete Disease Control - OMRI listed (Bacteria)
Monterey Consan 20
_Natria Disease Control for Lawns_ (Bacteria)
_Organocide 3in1 Garden Spray _(Oil)
_Rhapsody by Bayer _(Bacteria)
SePRO Camelot O - OMRI listed (Copper)
Southern Ag Garden Friendly Fungicide - OMRI listed (Bacteria)
ZeroTol 2.0 - OMRI listed

Edit:
The 2020 Rutger Chemical Control  publication is now available. It is great resource for how to treat most fungus.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Sample preventive fungicide program with 4 MOA:
Azoxystrobin 28 days
Propiconazole 14 days (labelled for 21 days but that didn't work for me)
Thiophanate-methyl 14 days
Flutolanil 14 days

3 MOA:
Azoxystrobin 28 days
Propiconazole 14 days
Thiophanate-methyl 14 days


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## Turfguy93

Make sure the product you're using is labeled effective for the disease you're trying to prevent/treat.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Turfguy93 said:


> Make sure the product you're using is labeled effective for the disease you're trying to prevent/treat.


Think I should add in what they treat or that might be too cluttered? Second post?


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## MarkAguglia

Turfguy93 said:


> Make sure the product you're using is labeled effective for the disease you're trying to prevent/treat.


I know I tried to use the Scott's Fungus Control to cure rust fungus last year, which doesn't work (it doesn't state rust in the description). This year I used the Scott's Disease Ex and haven't had a rust problem (does list rust). Would be good to list what they do or don't prevent. Thanks for doing this.


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## vnephologist

NC State TurfFiles is kinda my go-to for treatment effectiveness. I know there are lots of others... https://www.turffiles.ncsu.edu/diseases-in-turf/


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## jessehurlburt

This is an awesome guide so far! Thanks for putting this together.


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## Alpine

@Suburban Jungle Life Thank you so much for putting this together. As a newbie have been looking for a fungicide program - both preventative and curative. This is perfect! Thanks again for doing this.


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## g-man

This is great. We needed this. I'm going to link it to the Cool Season Guide for future reference. :thumbup:

Myclobutanil is sold as Spectracide Immunox Multi-Purpose Fungicide for Gardens Spray Concentrate (1.5% ai) at Lowes. It says garden in the tittle but it does have the lawn rate/directions in the label.


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## Killsocket

This is awesome info. Thanks! Can I borrow it for my lawn journal?
I just got done with an Eagle 20/Scott's Disease Ex/Eagle 20 treatment. First time using fungicides and just amazed how well my lawn is now!


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## Turfguy93

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Turfguy93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Make sure the product you're using is labeled effective for the disease you're trying to prevent/treat.
> 
> 
> 
> Think I should add in what they treat or that might be too cluttered? Second post?
Click to expand...

I like using this
http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agcomm/pubs/ppa/ppa1/ppa1.pdf


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Turfguy93 said:


> Make sure the product you're using is labeled effective for the disease you're trying to prevent/treat.


Added the diseases...


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Killsocket said:


> This is awesome info. Thanks! Can I borrow it for my lawn journal?
> I just got done with an Eagle 20/Scott's Disease Ex/Eagle 20 treatment. First time using fungicides and just amazed how well my lawn is now!


Enjoy! For all to share!


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## Suburban Jungle Life

g-man said:


> This is great. We needed this. I'm going to link it to the Cool Season Guide for future reference. :thumbup:
> 
> Myclobutanil is sold as Spectracide Immunox Multi-Purpose Fungicide for Gardens Spray Concentrate (1.5% ai) at Lowes. It says garden in the tittle but it does have the lawn rate/directions in the label.


Thanks. Added.


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## IowaLawn

What do you mean by Mode of Action - is that the group number? So like don't put any Group 3 down more than twice in a row?

And is the concept behind a granular that it penetrate the soil (so applying dry is fine) or do you want it to stick to the grass blades? (apply when grass is wet) Or does it depend on if it's curative or preventative?


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## Suburban Jungle Life

MOA is how the fungicide attacks the fungus. It could be through respiration, sterol biosynthesis in membranes, or many other ways. All the listed ones in the OP are only 1 MOA each. There are fungicides which attack through multiple MOA. It is easier for a fungus to become resistant if the same MOA is utilized over and over. The fungus will mutate and now be resistant to that fungicide. If you use 2 MOA or more, the fungus has to go through multiple mutations, which is much less likely to occur.

Fungicides are classified by group. In the OP, there are 2 with the same group, therefore they attack using the same MOA. It wouldn't be good to rotate thoes 2 because they use the same MOA.

Ideally, you would use at least 2 groups each time and rotate with another set of 2 different groups. The problem is the high cost and the limited number of available fungicides for residential use. The combination fungicides is an offer by manufacturers for ease of use. You can always buy the separate fugicides and mix them yourself.

The granular is just an easy application for the homeowner. Like applying granular fertilizer. It usually costs more though compared to concentrates. Not everyone is comfortable with spraying. The granular does take a little longer since it has to be absorbed through the roots and needs to be watered in. The sprays will attack the fungus directly on the leaf as well as be absorbed through the roots. Faster acting.

Curative is usually just a higher rate to have a better chance of success. Preventive is usually about half the rate and for longer periods. It is easier to kill a little bit of fungus (preventive) than an infestation (curative).


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## Killsocket

Is it considered group 3 and group 11 are the best combo's? Or can you mix and match any different group number? I just am not sure.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Killsocket said:


> Is it considered group 3 and group 11 are the best combo's? Or can you mix and match any different group number? I just am not sure.


You can mix any of them! Some don't cover specific fungus so 3 and 11 are a good mix to get wide coverage. There are other mixes, even up to 4 but they aren't labeled for residential.


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## Green

What about the other fungicides with similar chemistries? Such as other --conazoles. What was it...tebuconazole or something? I couldn't use the mention function from the tablet. Are they not labeled for residential use anywhere?


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Green said:


> What about the other fungicides with similar chemistries? Such as other --conazoles. What was it...tebuconazole or something? I couldn't use the mention function from the tablet. Are they not labeled for residential use anywhere?


I didn't find any tebuconazole labeled for residential. Did you? It is a group 3 so with two choices already...


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## Green

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about the other fungicides with similar chemistries? Such as other --conazoles. What was it...tebuconazole or something? I couldn't use the mention function from the tablet. Are they not labeled for residential use anywhere?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't find any tebuconazole labeled for residential. Did you? It is a group 3 so with two choices already...
Click to expand...

I'm sure someone here will reply; people on here have used it.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

There are many other fungicides available. They aren't labeled for use on residential lawns. Many of them also require use of a respirator with a vapor filter. Some of them are very good but I don't think recommending products for off label is the best thing to do. You are free to use anything you want but just be safe.

Boscalid, chlorothalonil, Etridiazole, Fenhexamid, Fludioxonil, Fluopicolide, Iprodione, Pyraclostrobin, tebuconazole, Triticonazole


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## g-man

Tebuconazole is sold as Bayer Advance Disease Control For Roses, Flowers & Shrubs, but it is not labeled for lawn use.

I agree with Suburban Jungle Life. Lets not recommend using products that are not labeled for residential lawns.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Added more options if anyone was looking for choices. Also use bold for a few common problems.


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## NoslracNevok

I've created a google sheet of herbicides and the types of plants they're effective with. It makes a snap of picking the best herbicides (use the filter/sort). I'll share it once finished.

I may tackle Fungicides as well, even though I've little knowledge in the subject.


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## Bkell101

Seems like groups 1,3,11 are more economical however if you are applying 3-11 together and then you want two more groups for a followup treatment that leaves you with group 1 plus one of the more expensive groups right? Any specific products that are outside of group 1,3,11 that aren't >100$ on amazon?


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## Rule11

This is great info. I have just gotten started with treating my turf with PGR, Herbicides, insecticides, and other items. But have not even looked into Fungicides yet. Trying not to overload my available GB space in this brain of mine. But anyway, I have noticed some mushrooms the past month or so. White ones and brown ones. Any action suggestions?


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Rule11 said:


> This is great info. I have just gotten started with treating my turf with PGR, Herbicides, insecticides, and other items. But have not even looked into Fungicides yet. Trying not to overload my available GB space in this brain of mine. But anyway, I have noticed some mushrooms the past month or so. White ones and brown ones. Any action suggestions?


Yeah. Fungus is a tough one. Especially IDing them. Most mushrooms in the lawn aren't of concern. Just mow them or kick them over if you wish. They are the fruiting bodies of the fungus in the soil. They tend to grow on decomposing wood. You may have some bits of wood in the dirt. Nothing to be concerned about. If you have fairy ring, that would be bad but otherwise, I wouldn't worry. If you see your grass turning brown and dying, that is the fungus that I would try to do something about, not mushrooms. :thumbup:


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## Rule11

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Rule11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is great info. I have just gotten started with treating my turf with PGR, Herbicides, insecticides, and other items. But have not even looked into Fungicides yet. Trying not to overload my available GB space in this brain of mine. But anyway, I have noticed some mushrooms the past month or so. White ones and brown ones. Any action suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. Fungus is a tough one. Especially IDing them. Most mushrooms in the lawn aren't of concern. Just mow them or kick them over if you wish. They are the fruiting bodies of the fungus in the soil. They tend to grow on decomposing wood. You may have some bits of wood in the dirt. Nothing to be concerned about. If you have fairy ring, that would be bad but otherwise, I wouldn't worry. If you see your grass turning brown and dying, that is the fungus that I would try to do something about, not mushrooms. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Thank you for the insight. Much appreciated! I have 1 brown spot, about 4" in diameter. But just 1. I was thinking it maybe where some Round Up escaped my focus when spraying the road curb. Since it was only 1 I was hoping that was my mistake. I could shoot a photo this afternoon


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Bkell101 said:


> Seems like groups 1,3,11 are more economical however if you are applying 3-11 together and then you want two more groups for a followup treatment that leaves you with group 1 plus one of the more expensive groups right? Any specific products that are outside of group 1,3,11 that aren't >100$ on amazon?


Yeah. 3 & 11 are the common ones and thiophanate-methyl from group 1. I would recommend looking at the per application cost for 1000 sq ft. Some of them are expensive but you get a lot so the cost is actually low, just gotta spring for the bottle first. The other choice is to try and cycle through the 3 and use something like this schedule:

Azoxystrobin 28 days
Propiconazole 14 days
Thiophanate-Methyl 14 days
Azoxystrobin 28 days
Propiconazole 14 days
Thiophanate-Methyl 14 days

This gives 4 months of preventive control while using 3 MOAs. Depending on how long and harsh your summers are, this could get you through until fall. At that point, you will overseed or pound fert to fill any lost spots anyway even if you came up a few weeks short.

Another option is to get Xzemplar. It is pricey at $240 but the cost per 1000 sq ft is $4.42. If you buy the Scotts DiseaseEX and use it at the preventive rate also, that costs $3.67/M excluding taxes. So, it does cost more but use it sparingly. So, then you can use this plan instead:

Azoxystrobin 28 days
Propiconazole 14 days
Propiconazole 14 days
Thiophanate-Methyl 14 days
Thiophanate-Methyl 14 days
Azoxystrobin 28 days
Xzemplar 21 days
Propiconazole 14 days
Propiconazole 14 days
Thiophanate-Methyl 14 days
Thiophanate-Methyl 14 days
Azoxystrobin 28 days

This gives you almost 8 months of control. Unless you live in the south, I don't see how you would need this much time. Also, you only used the xzemplar for one application for the year. The bottle will cover 54,000 sq ft. I would prefer to use this preventive schedule and not worry about fungus being a big problem. You can also substitute Xzemplar with some other MOA but I try to mix a 4th MOA in between so the fungus gets attacked differently than constantly repeating the same products.

If you want to use a curative due to a current problem, use something like this:
Azoxystrobin & Propiconazole at the same time.
Then, 14 days after that application, switch to this schedule:
Propiconazole 14 days
Thiophanate-Methyl 14 days
Thiophanate-Methyl 14 days
Azoxystrobin 28 days
Propiconazole 14 days
Propiconazole 14 days
Thiophanate-Methyl 14 days
Thiophanate-Methyl 14 days
This plan gives you a curative up front and switches to a preventive. Since you are combining MOAs, you can make this combo at a preventive rate but it works like a curative. This is a copy of Headway G. Use preventive rates of DiseaseEx 2lb/M and Propiconazole 1oz/M.

These schedules should have you covered for the majority of diseases but of course, not everything. Hope this helps.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Rule11 said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rule11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is great info. I have just gotten started with treating my turf with PGR, Herbicides, insecticides, and other items. But have not even looked into Fungicides yet. Trying not to overload my available GB space in this brain of mine. But anyway, I have noticed some mushrooms the past month or so. White ones and brown ones. Any action suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. Fungus is a tough one. Especially IDing them. Most mushrooms in the lawn aren't of concern. Just mow them or kick them over if you wish. They are the fruiting bodies of the fungus in the soil. They tend to grow on decomposing wood. You may have some bits of wood in the dirt. Nothing to be concerned about. If you have fairy ring, that would be bad but otherwise, I wouldn't worry. If you see your grass turning brown and dying, that is the fungus that I would try to do something about, not mushrooms. :thumbup:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for the insight. Much appreciated! I have 1 brown spot, about 4" in diameter. But just 1. I was thinking it maybe where some Round Up escaped my focus when spraying the road curb. Since it was only 1 I was hoping that was my mistake. I could shoot a photo this afternoon
Click to expand...

Pics would be great. Try to show the parts you sprayed and where you may have spilled/dripped/boo booed. Maybe share it in this thread? More people to help ID it if fungus is a potential problem.


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## Rule11

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Rule11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. Fungus is a tough one. Especially IDing them. Most mushrooms in the lawn aren't of concern. Just mow them or kick them over if you wish. They are the fruiting bodies of the fungus in the soil. They tend to grow on decomposing wood. You may have some bits of wood in the dirt. Nothing to be concerned about. If you have fairy ring, that would be bad but otherwise, I wouldn't worry. If you see your grass turning brown and dying, that is the fungus that I would try to do something about, not mushrooms. :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the insight. Much appreciated! I have 1 brown spot, about 4" in diameter. But just 1. I was thinking it maybe where some Round Up escaped my focus when spraying the road curb. Since it was only 1 I was hoping that was my mistake. I could shoot a photo this afternoon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pics would be great. Try to show the parts you sprayed and where you may have spilled/dripped/boo booed. Maybe share it in this thread? More people to help ID it if fungus is a potential problem.
Click to expand...

I will do that today. Thanks


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## Alpine

I am a newbie to lawn care and especially fungicides. In reading through the Fungicide Guide it looks like I would start fungicide applications in early May and continue through August. Does that sound right? This would give a 4 month coverage.

Also, what about the some of the biologics like Serenade, Champion. What is their place in a fungicide program?


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## ericgautier

Alpine said:


> Also, what about the some of the biologics like Serenade, Champion. What is their place in a fungicide program?


I had good luck w/ Serenade. But spraying every 10-14 days got tiring. If you can keep up with the spraying, I say go for it!

I get the 2.5g of Serenade here. For my area, I start spraying Serenade mid May @4oz/k until end of season or I run out. No rotation either, just Serenade every 10-14 days.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Alpine said:


> I am a newbie to lawn care and especially fungicides. In reading through the Fungicide Guide it looks like I would start fungicide applications in early May and continue through August. Does that sound right? This would give a 4 month coverage.
> 
> Also, what about the some of the biologics like Serenade, Champion. What is their place in a fungicide program?


I didn't include any biological fungicides due to a few practicality concerns. Some are gram negative and have a very short shelf life or specific storage requirements like refrigeration to ensure the viability of the microbes. Also, they are generally preventive not curative. They need to colonize in order for them to out compete or attack pathogens. Not to say they aren't effective though. The list was for chemical fungicides (products which tend to be more commonly available and easier to store for long term) and it wasn't an exhaustive list of all fungicides. Though, many farmers are seeing benefits from a 2 tied approach. Use biofungicides to weaken pathogens and then use chemical fungicides to finish the job. This leads to fewer applications of chemicals.

For an organic program, you could use products like Southern AG Garden Friendly Fungicide or Simple Success Companion as well as other organic products which use acids, metals, or phosphorous for control such as ZeroTol, Eco-Mate Armicarb, or many of the copper and aluminum options.

I hope I didn't give the impression that chemical was the only option. On a side note, is serenade labeled for turf?


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## Alpine

Thanks guys! I'm really getting an education on this forum. I appreciate all the help.


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## LawnNerd

g-man said:


> T
> I agree with Suburban Jungle Life. Lets not recommend using products that are not labeled for residential lawns.


I agree with this, except for Abound. https://www.keystonepestsolutions.c...Wo-2R3nG1P5SBQs_jmVqe-FfFpZzWlToaAjaXEALw_wcB

It's the same formula and AI as Azoxy 2sc it's just not labeled for turf because it's labeled for agriculture. There is no more harm to the applicator or others than Azoxy 2sc. I use http://prime-sourcellc.com/products/azoxy-2sc-select/ for applications directions.

I only bring this up because the cost savings on a oz per k really makes Azoxystrobin affordable, Especially for the big lawn guys.


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## Turfguy93

LawnNerd said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> T
> I agree with Suburban Jungle Life. Lets not recommend using products that are not labeled for residential lawns.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with this, except for Abound. https://www.keystonepestsolutions.c...Wo-2R3nG1P5SBQs_jmVqe-FfFpZzWlToaAjaXEALw_wcB
> 
> It's the same formula and AI as Azoxy 2sc it's just not labeled for turf because it's labeled for agriculture. There is no more harm to the applicator or others than Azoxy 2sc. I use http://prime-sourcellc.com/products/azoxy-2sc-select/ for applications directions.
> 
> I only bring this up because the cost savings on a oz per k really makes Azoxystrobin affordable, Especially for the big lawn guys.
Click to expand...

It's against the law to use a fungicide off label no matter the active ingredient. If that wasn't the case I would strictly buy ag because $$$


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## jbaav

Thanks for this information. Dealing with a little brown spot issue in my lawn currently. Spread Prophesy this morning and will use this guide to pick my next fungicide.


----------



## Rule11

Ok all, here are some photos of the small white shrooms that have been popping up in my front side strip. Also is the 1 brown spot that appeard but it came about after I sprayed the expansion seems in curb. So I was just thinking I had a drop or 2 of Round Up while spraying the area.


----------



## Budstl

Looks like a dog pee spot rule11


----------



## Rule11

Love dogs. But not ones that pee. I work so hard to keep my lab from doing his business on the lawn. But our sidewalk can be busy for walkers. Maybe a nice sign will help


----------



## kolbasz

Suburban Jungle Life said:



> The problem is the high cost and the limited number of available fungicides for residential use.


I believe from experience that Propiconazole is the cheapest amongst them. In an effort to not get super crazy, which others fall in the sub 100$ range? I started down the list and most were $150+.

Just figure it saves time to just ask. Plus I figure it a good way to see what others are using.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

kolbasz said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is the high cost and the limited number of available fungicides for residential use.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe from experience that Propiconazole is the cheapest amongst them. In an effort to not get super crazy, which others fall in the sub 100$ range? I started down the list and most were $150+.
> 
> Just figure it saves time to just ask. Plus I figure it a good way to see what others are using.
Click to expand...

Thiophanate-methyl and myclobutanil are also reasonable. Azoxystrobin is good but the scotts product is a little pricey. If you spring for a $200 bottle of one of the other options, it is half the cost per application vs the scotts. I like to break it down to cost/M. Yes, you can buy a granular for $80 but it doesn't cover a lot compared to the concentrate which does cost more up front but is a lot lower per M. I tried not to include products which were above $300. I think there is only 1 or 2 that high. Granted, the cost per application may be reasonable, it is a big jump. I'll add a price structure so people have an idea when looking for products.


----------



## kolbasz

@Suburban Jungle Life I saw the new pricing details in the OP, but can you clarify how to read those. I want to make sure when I am looking at them that I am reading them correctly. I assume $$$ is how expensive and ### is how far the product goes, but I want to make sure


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

kolbasz said:


> @Suburban Jungle Life I saw the new pricing details in the OP, but can you clarify how to read those. I want to make sure when I am looking at them that I am reading them correctly. I assume $$$ is how expensive and ### is how far the product goes, but I want to make sure


The $$$ is how much a product costs. So, if it is a $, that is usually below about $50. $$ is up to $100. $$$ is about up to $150ish. $$$$ is around the $200 range.

### is for the cost of application per 1000 sq ft. Some products are very concentrated or come in large quantities so while 1 package might cost a lot, the package covers a lot of area.
# is about $1 per 1000 sq ft (or M).
## is around $2/M.
### is about $3/M.
#### is about $4/M.
##### is around $5/M.
###### is off the chart and somewhere between $5 and up but I found there many of those were $10-$15 per M.
####### is way off the chart and costs upwards of $30/M.

So, a product like $/####### costs maybe $12 for the bottle but it costs $30 per 1000 sq ft to apply. If you have a 200 sq ft lawn, that might be just fine but if you have a 12,000 sq ft lawn, that would be bananas to even consider. I imagine most people will look for something in between for a balance of product costs and application cost.


----------



## kolbasz

@Suburban Jungle Life this is all awesome info.

so being cheap, cn I go:

-Quali-pro Propiconazole $/# or-Prime Source PPZ 41.8 $$$/# (is the high % better?)
- Cleary 3336 EG
-Quali-pro Myclobutanil 20EW T&O 
-Armada 50 WDG

2 group 3, 1 group 1 and a combo 11/3

Is this OK? If I cut out the back, I should get good range treating just 6k of 13k. My thinking is over the course of the slow winter months, buy one product a month and then it is not so crazy.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

kolbasz said:


> @Suburban Jungle Life this is all awesome info.
> 
> so being cheap, cn I go:
> 
> -Quali-pro Propiconazole $/# or-Prime Source PPZ 41.8 $$$/# (is the high % better?)
> - Cleary 3336 EG
> -Quali-pro Myclobutanil 20EW T&O
> -Armada 50 WDG
> 
> 2 group 3, 1 group 1 and a combo 11/3
> 
> Is this OK? If I cut out the back, I should get good range treating just 6k of 13k. My thinking is over the course of the slow winter months, buy one product a month and then it is not so crazy.


I would probably skip the Quali-pro Myclobutanil 20EW. It is a group 3 and the propiconazole options cover the majority of the same types of fungus but include even more. Also, the armada has a group 3 so that is too many of the same MOA. I think it is best to go with different groups so you can rotate MOA and not have resistant fungus to deal with.

With your plan, maybe use the armada as a curative when you have a problem since that is 2 MOA and should be quite effective. Then, switch to the cleary for a couple apps before switching to a propiconazole choice for another couple apps for a preventive program.

Another option would be to skip the armada also and instead get Azoxy 2SC. This would be your group 11 and you can add propiconazole into the mix and spray both at the same time for an effective replacement of armada. But, on a preventive program, you have a product without a group 3 to apply.

I don't think a higher % is any better. It just has a higher concentration of the active ingredient in the bottle. You just end up using less of it per application. The $/# was only meant to be a guideline. I just did the actual calculation. Prices as of today from domyown.com.
Quali-pro 32oz is $1.46/M
Quali-pro 128oz is $0.70/M
PPZ is $0.39/M
Big difference! In the guide, I considered anything from $0.00 up to about $1.90 to be represented by one $ symbol. It isn't a perfect system but it gives a ball park. As you can see, the costs can still be quite different.

Let's say you choose the PPZ based on price/M. It's the cheapest but due to the high concentration, there is a lot of product in the bottle. Using the 0.37 fl oz rate for 2 weeks as a preventive, and lets say you applied it 4 times spread throughout the year on the 6M of lawn. The 1 gal bottle would last you 14 years. I'm not sure that is the best way to go. I do wonder how well the product would hold up for that length of time until you use it all.

Maybe consider getting the 1 gal of Quali-pro instead. It is $40 cheaper up front even though the cost per M is closer to double. The 1 gal bottle using it at 1 fl oz/M for 6M of lawn with 4 apps, that would last 5 years. This is what I might consider instead. This is where the balance of up front cost vs cost per app needs to be weighed in.

I price shop multiple sites to save some more. I usually look at these sites: domyown, doyourownpestcontrol, amazon, pestrong, solutionsstores. I'm sure there are many more if you look around.


----------



## osuturfman

*Here's some information on 14.3% AI propiconazole VS. 41.3% AI propiconazole on the Other Site last year.*

Don't worry about AI percentages. A better way to evaluate these two products is on cost per thousand square feet (abbreviated here forward as "M").

Let's take a look at a typical rate comparison between the two products:

Product 41.3 - $99/gallon
0.37 FL oz/M is a typical rate

Product 14.3 - $90/gallon
1.0 FL oz/M is a typical rate

See the attached picture for the math. Multiply across the top and bottom, canceling like units when they occur on both top and bottom of your unit analysis.



Now, why is Product 14.3 over 2.5X the cost of Product 41.3? Technology! More specifically the formulation technology used to build the product.

Product 41.3 is formulated as an emusifiable concentrate (EC). EC is an older formulation technology whereby higher AIs content with larger molecule sizes are mixed with surfactants and natural petroleum inerts to coat the leaves and get the AI into the plant.

Product 14.3 uses a newer formulation technology known as microencapsulation. Microencapsulation still uses emulisfers as inerts and carriers (and in a much higher ratio to AI than a standard EC) but the AI molecules are somewhere between 10-100X smaller than a standard EC. The microencapsulated AIs have been proven to have higher efficacy and better residual than older EC formulated AIs. That means stretching intervals in between applications of Product 14.3 longer than that of Product 41.3.

One other note with EC formulations, the petroleum-based inerts can be "hot", causing phytotoxicity. Do not use the EC products in temperatures above 85 degrees F at the time of application. It's OK to spray in the morning (cooler temps) though on a day that it will 85+ degrees F. No issue with the micro-encapsulated emulsions applied during hot periods.

One of the most important aspects of using a microemulsion product as opposed to the older technology of the emulsifiable concentrate is AI molecule size. The AI molecules in a microemulsion can be on the order of 1000X smaller than that of an EC product. What's also important here is, that propiconazole is not a true systemic fungicide and is an acropetal penetrant. This means that leaf coverage is absolutely crucial is getting smaller molecules into the plant.

From experience, I can tell you that while Product 41.3 is less expensive per M, I have never seen it work well on its own. Typically, most professional applicators will add another fungicide in along with it. That costs more money and now you're up in the range of just using Product 14.3 by itself.

The products are formulated to be effective at the label rate. Efficacy has many variables and only some of which you, the applicator, actually can control. Cost is just a function price divided by area coverage. Once you can test and feel confident in a product's efficacy cost is just one of the considerations and not the only consideration. When I made the calculations above, I used rates for each product that I am confident will be effective for most turfgrass diseases that propiconazole is labeled for.

With regard to the percentage of AI or the "strength" of a product; the manufacturer takes that into account when labeling and listing use rates. The products are formulated to be effective at the label rate. Efficacy has many variables and only some of which you, the applicator, actually can control. Cost is just a function price divided by area coverage. Once you can test and feel confident in a product's efficacy, cost is just one of the considerations and not the only consideration. When I made the calculations above, I used rates for each product that I am confident will be effective for most turfgrass diseases that propiconazole is labeled for.

I hope this helps.


----------



## osuturfman

Two more really important points when it comes to evaluating fungicides and their performance on your property.

1.) *Intervals*

Tracking your intervals between sprays is vital. When tracking this simply means keeping a log of your applications and possibly some photos of your lawn at the time of application. The questions you should answer in the exercise include:


Which, if any, diseases were present prior to your spray?
How many days after your last spray did you see a breakthrough, if any, of new disease?

Pushing your intervals is where you are ultimately going to save money and make the biggest difference for your turf. For example, if you are on a 21 day interval and coming into a cooler, drier weather pattern at day 20, pump the brakes on the sprayer and see how long you can ride out those improved conditions.

Tracking these intervals along with corresponding weather conditions will give you better information to plan your program for seasons to come.

2.) *Costing*

Something that's been helpful for me over the last 15 years or so of tracking these intervals is not only costing products by their cost per unit area, but also by cost per unit area per day of efficacy. That is to say, if I'm only getting less than half the interval out of a less expensive product, is it really worth it for me to spray it? This approach also takes into account labor for me/time for you to apply. Why apply a cheaper product twice if I can be money ahead on spraying something once that has a higher sticker price?

Just a couple more things to think about when considering products for your program.


----------



## PokeGrande

@Suburban Jungle Life

So I just went to pick up a bag of Scott's Lawn Fungus Control from local Home Depot. They've now replenished with DiseasEx. I put down one app of DiseasEx 4 weeks ago and none before that. Prior fungicide apps before that were propiconazole. Can I put down another bag of the DiseasEx/azoxystrobin? Or go back to the propiconazole for this next app?

Thanks.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

PokeGrande said:


> @Suburban Jungle Life
> 
> So I just went to pick up a bag of Scott's Lawn Fungus Control from local Home Depot. They've now replenished with DiseasEx. I put down one app of DiseasEx 4 weeks ago and none before that. Prior fungicide apps before that were propiconazole. Can I put down another bag of the DiseasEx/azoxystrobin? Or go back to the propiconazole for this next app?
> 
> Thanks.


If you've had good control so far, you can use the diseaseex one more time. I wouldn't use it more than 2 times in a row. Then, switch to the propiconazole or thiophanate-methyl. Both are available in products at home depot/lowes. It looks like scotts may be phasing out the Lawn Fungus Control. I still see it locally but others are finding it harder to get.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Thanks @osuturfman. Good info. Regarding the intervals, it is cheaper to track the weather using greencast or some other site to see what the disease pressure is. If it has cooled off and humidity is lower, then one could wait before re-applying. The problem is for a professional, they don't have that luxury. The turf should be protected at all times since they won't be able to hit all their clients the day before disease pressure increases. I wait until disease shows up on a lawn before I start it on a program. For some reason, some lawns just don't seem as susceptible. Perhaps because they have good air flow and full sun.


----------



## kolbasz

One thing I learned from this thread is about the groups. While I have not applied it yet, I have a bag of Lesco T-storm, it has Thiophanate-methyl (71), a group , which would be a good MOA alternative to the Propiconazole I have applied.

Albeit, a one time shot, but still I learned it is a different group, etc, so that is a plus to this forum and the work of @Suburban Jungle Life as I probably would not otherwise know this. I do know it was expensive at 67.99 for a 30# bag.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

kolbasz said:


> One thing I learned from this thread is about the groups. While I have not applied it yet, I have a bag of Lesco T-storm, it has Thiophanate-methyl (71), a group , which would be a good MOA alternative to the Propiconazole I have applied.
> 
> Albeit, a one time shot, but still I learned it is a different group, etc, so that is a plus to this forum and the work of @Suburban Jungle Life as I probably would not otherwise know this. I do know it was expensive at 67.99 for a 30# bag.


 :thumbup: Thanks. Glad the guide was of some use. It took some time to write up...


----------



## osuturfman

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Thanks @osuturfman. Good info. Regarding the intervals, it is cheaper to track the weather using greencast or some other site to see what the disease pressure is. If it has cooled off and humidity is lower, then one could wait before re-applying. The problem is for a professional, they don't have that luxury. The turf should be protected at all times since they won't be able to hit all their clients the day before disease pressure increases. I wait until disease shows up on a lawn before I start it on a program. For some reason, some lawns just don't seem as susceptible. Perhaps because they have good air flow and full sun.


Glad you enjoyed the write-up.

I'm not sure what you mean by cheaper to track disease pressure via Greencast or another site?

With regards to the intervals, what I wrote up is assuming an application has already been made and we're nearing the late stages of the interval. More or less trying to relate the techniques golf course and sports field managers use to extend intervals into something a homeowner can do by observing their local weather conditions. Lawn care operators are in a totally different boat, you're right.

With respect to susceptibility to pathogens, the Disease Triangle is always at work.



In this concept, we have a lot of control over the Host as we can choose species and cultivars that have better resistance to known pathogens. You mentioned sun and air movement, both great examples of we as growers controlling the Environment side of the Disease Triangle. The Pathogens will always be there but, the two other sides of the Disease Triangle will influence those inoculum/population levels.

Again, my goal here is to inform and spur thought of those trying to do this sort of stuff on their own. I hope it helps whoever reads along.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Sorry. I meant to track disease pressure and apply as needed instead of being on a constant fungicide diet. So, if you put a treatment down and it is rated for 4 weeks but at the end of that time, the weather is great and disease pressure is low, you just let it go without a fungicide. When the forecast calls for high temps/rain/high humidity etc, then you put down a fungicide a day or two before. This way, you may be able to skip a week or two here and there in order to save some $$.


----------



## PokeGrande

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> If you've had good control so far, you can use the diseaseex one more time. I wouldn't use it more than 2 times in a row. Then, switch to the propiconazole or thiophanate-methyl. Both are available in products at home depot/lowes. It looks like scotts may be phasing out the Lawn Fungus Control. I still see it locally but others are finding it harder to get.


Thanks. Thought you could but I usually see it used just once before rotating to another Group. Perhaps due to azoxystrobin being more expensive than others.

Back in May when just beginning to learn about this, it was suggested that Scott's DiseasEx was a good product. Went online and it said one of my local Home Depot's had 10 or so in stock. When I got there, it was actually the Lawn Fungus Control. I was disappointed as I had not yet seen that AI mentioned but I got it anyway as I felt I needed to get something down at that time and hadn't ordered the propiconazole yet. Turns out that thiophanate-methyl is a good fungicide to use in a rotation. And so I was disappointed this time when they did not have the Lawn Fungus Control but had the DiseasEx! Anwyway, back in May, it seemed Home Depot (or Scott's) was in process of replacing their Scott's fungicide product.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

PokeGrande said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you've had good control so far, you can use the diseaseex one more time. I wouldn't use it more than 2 times in a row. Then, switch to the propiconazole or thiophanate-methyl. Both are available in products at home depot/lowes. It looks like scotts may be phasing out the Lawn Fungus Control. I still see it locally but others are finding it harder to get.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. Thought you could but I usually see it used just once before rotating to another Group. Perhaps due to azoxystrobin being more expensive than others.
> 
> Back in May when just beginning to learn about this, it was suggested that Scott's DiseasEx was a good product. Went online and it said one of my local Home Depot's had 10 or so in stock. When I got there, it was actually the Lawn Fungus Control. I was disappointed as I had not yet seen that AI mentioned but I got it anyway as I felt I needed to get something down at that time and hadn't ordered the propiconazole yet. Turns out that thiophanate-methyl is a good fungicide to use in a rotation. And so I was disappointed this time when they did not have the Lawn Fungus Control but had the DiseasEx! Anwyway, back in May, it seemed Home Depot (or Scott's) was in process of replacing their Scott's fungicide product.
Click to expand...

Hehe. Just can't win huh?


----------



## Stellar P

Am I able to apply Scott's DiseaseEx this evening and then water it in tomorrow morning? Will having the dry granule sit in the yard for 12 hours do anything negative? Will this compromise the products efficiency at all?

Applying a fungicide to my back yard is a timing nightmare because of my fur babies. Luckily they will be at grandma and grandpa's house this weekend. We are leaving the house at 8 am on Saturday for a weekend getaway and I'd like to apply it after I get off work and then just water it in before we leave in the morning. I don't get home from work until 6:30 so I don't think I'll have enough daylight/high temps to dry out the leaf blade before dark.


----------



## PokeGrande

Stellar P said:


> Am I able to apply Scott's DiseaseEx this evening and then water it in tomorrow morning? Will having the dry granule sit in the yard for 12 hours do anything negative? Will this compromise the products efficiency at all?


That's what I've done the two times I've applied this product. Don't know if right or wrong but that's what I did.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Stellar P said:


> Am I able to apply Scott's DiseaseEx this evening and then water it in tomorrow morning? Will having the dry granule sit in the yard for 12 hours do anything negative? Will this compromise the products efficiency at all?


Having the DiseaseEx granules sit on the soil will not compromise their effectiveness once they are eventually watered in. Neither will it do anything bad to the grass. However, they don't start to do any benefit to the lawn until they are watered in.



Stellar P said:


> We are leaving the house at 8 am on Saturday for a weekend getaway and I'd like to apply it after I get off work and then just water it in before we leave in the morning.


Sounds like a fine plan. Only risk is a heavy downpour to come through overnight and wash away the granules rather than watering them in gently. I'd suggest going ahead with your plan and then eyeing the forecast carefully. If there's a significant risk of evening downpours, water the DiseaseEx in on Friday night. Even though your evening watering will keep the lawn wet overnight, that would already be the case anyway, if natural downpours are on their way overnight.


----------



## Fg lawn

Applied Scott's Disease Ex last night and watered in this morning. Got Eagle 20ew in today - is it OK to apply the Eagle 20 tonight in addition to the Disease Ex which was applied last night? Have some brown patch breaking out and didn't want to loose a day which is why the Disease Ex went down as it was readily available.....

Thanks for any feedback!


----------



## g-man

Yes you are ok


----------



## Turfguy93

Fg lawn said:


> Applied Scott's Disease Ex last night and watered in this morning. Got Eagle 20ew in today - is it OK to apply the Eagle 20 tonight in addition to the Disease Ex which was applied last night? Have some brown patch breaking out and didn't want to loose a day which is why the Disease Ex went down as it was readily available.....
> 
> Thanks for any feedback!


It's okay to apply but azoxystrobin is great on brown patch so you could wait 14-21 days and apply eagle then to lengthen your control


----------



## Green

@Suburban Jungle Life, I see you keep adding things, including organics. I use Serenade biofungicide, another bacteria, which you should definitely add to the list. No resistance issues, and I don't even bother with normal PPE because it's so non-toxic.

Also, you might consider putting a line space between each group heading and subsequent listings within each category, for ease of reading.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Green said:


> @Suburban Jungle Life, I see you keep adding things, including organics. I use Serenade biofungicide, another bacteria, which you should definitely add to the list. No resistance issues, and I don't even bother with normal PPE because it's so non-toxic.
> 
> Also, you might consider putting a line space between each group heading and subsequent listings within each category, for ease of reading.


Thanks for the suggestions. I view it as a living doc so I'm trying to keep it current. For serenade, did you see grass on the label? I couldn't find it.


----------



## Stellar P

Green said:


> Suburban Jungle Life, I see you keep adding things, including organics. I use Serenade biofungicide, another bacteria, which you should definitely add to the list. No resistance issues, and I don't even bother with normal PPE because it's so non-toxic.


I'm interested in these bio-fungicides too. I've got dogs in the back yard, so I have to be mindful of my apps and timing. I'd prefer to just spray them in the face as I do my passes and not worry!


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Stellar P said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> Suburban Jungle Life, I see you keep adding things, including organics. I use Serenade biofungicide, another bacteria, which you should definitely add to the list. No resistance issues, and I don't even bother with normal PPE because it's so non-toxic.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm interested in these bio-fungicides too. I've got dogs in the back yard, so I have to be mindful of my apps and timing. I'd prefer to just spray them in the face as I do my passes and not worry!
Click to expand...

Check the OP. There are many which are OMRI listed for organic gardening. Though, I do recommend spraying and waiting an hour or 2 to dry before letting the dogs loose.


----------



## Stellar P

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Stellar P said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> Suburban Jungle Life, I see you keep adding things, including organics. I use Serenade biofungicide, another bacteria, which you should definitely add to the list. No resistance issues, and I don't even bother with normal PPE because it's so non-toxic.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm interested in these bio-fungicides too. I've got dogs in the back yard, so I have to be mindful of my apps and timing. I'd prefer to just spray them in the face as I do my passes and not worry!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Check the OP. There are many which are OMRI listed for organic gardening. Though, I do recommend spraying and waiting an hour or 2 to dry before letting the dogs loose.
Click to expand...

Will do. :thumbup:


----------



## g-man

FYI, Just because something is organic/natural, it doesn't no lt mean it is safe. In example, cyanide.


----------



## Stellar P

g-man said:


> FYI, Just because something is organic/natural, it doesn't no lt mean it is safe. In example, cyanide.


True. Just makes me worry less about the intensity these products have on cellular bodies.

People can overdose on water.


----------



## Turfguy93

g-man said:


> FYI, Just because something is organic/natural, it doesn't no lt mean it is safe. In example, cyanide.


+1 serenade(rhapsody) is a caution label just like almost every other modern fungicide


----------



## Green

Turfguy93 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, Just because something is organic/natural, it doesn't no lt mean it is safe. In example, cyanide.
> 
> 
> 
> +1 serenade(rhapsody) is a caution label just like almost every other modern fungicide
Click to expand...

But since it's ok to use on vegetables the day before picking, it's very non toxic. I have to admit, in the beginning I was concerned about using bacteria, but there has been no issue shown with people if it gets on skin. Now, if a person have a bad cut and are immuno compromised, and it gets in, who knows. People need to weigh the risks themselves.

When I took microbiology class, we never wore eye protection, and some of those bacteria could actually make people sick.


----------



## Green

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Suburban Jungle Life, I see you keep adding things, including organics. I use Serenade biofungicide, another bacteria, which you should definitely add to the list. No resistance issues, and I don't even bother with normal PPE because it's so non-toxic.
> 
> Also, you might consider putting a line space between each group heading and subsequent listings within each category, for ease of reading.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions. I view it as a living doc so I'm trying to keep it current. For serenade, did you see grass on the label? I couldn't find it.
Click to expand...

Some labels have it. Not all do. But it's all the same bacteria, grown by Bayer.


----------



## 7474

Thanks for this thread, especially the differentiation between 14.3 and 41% propiconazole. I too was looking at the 41% as a cheaper alternative to the 14.3. Now I know the difference and will be sticking with the 14.3

Regarding Scott's disease ex, I had absolutely no effect. Fortunately, they have a money back guarantee since I have 20k sqft. Used the propiconazole 14.3 and had amazing results.


----------



## Turfguy93

Green said:


> Turfguy93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, Just because something is organic/natural, it doesn't no lt mean it is safe. In example, cyanide.
> 
> 
> 
> +1 serenade(rhapsody) is a caution label just like almost every other modern fungicide
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But since it's ok to use on vegetables the day before picking, it's very non toxic. I have to admit, in the beginning I was concerned about using bacteria, but there has been no issue shown with people if it gets on skin. Now, if a person have a bad cut and are immuno compromised, and it gets in, who knows. People need to weigh the risks themselves.
> 
> When I took microbiology class, we never wore eye protection, and some of those bacteria could actually make people sick.
Click to expand...

So isn't daconil I believe and it's a warning label


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Turfguy93 said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turfguy93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> +1 serenade(rhapsody) is a caution label just like almost every other modern fungicide
> 
> 
> 
> But since it's ok to use on vegetables the day before picking, it's very non toxic. I have to admit, in the beginning I was concerned about using bacteria, but there has been no issue shown with people if it gets on skin. Now, if a person have a bad cut and are immuno compromised, and it gets in, who knows. People need to weigh the risks themselves.
> 
> When I took microbiology class, we never wore eye protection, and some of those bacteria could actually make people sick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So isn't daconil I believe and it's a warning label
Click to expand...

I realize there are many available products which take care of fungus but I'm sticking with products specifically labelled to be applied to residential lawns. This of course does exclude a lot of available products. As a reference document which anyone can use, I don't want to include off label use. If a professional lawn care operator were to get caught using products off label, they can be hit with fines and lose their pest license. On top of that, they are required to disclose what products they applied and they would have to lie about what they used. For these reasons, I am keeping this post to only include products labelled for residential lawns. Everyone is free to use whatever they want and feel comfortable with applying. Feel free to discuss the use of off label products in this thread as well but I won't include them in the OP.


----------



## Turfguy93

Yeah I know I was just saying that daconil is considered by many one of the more harmful fungicides these days and if you spray it on tomatoes they can be harvested the next day just like serenade. @Suburban Jungle Life


----------



## Green

@Suburban Jungle Life, like I said, some of the labels have lawns on them, and some don't. Here's one that does:

https://www.natria.com/shop/natria-disease-control

Label listing lawns on it: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5ae8d84fee1759223c4de494/t/5b2a7781562fa7411849afbe/1529509762460/706140+Natira+Disease+Control+28oz+RTS.pdf

It's the exact same product, but with a different name.


----------



## GoPre

My apologies if this has been discussed, I searched the thread to no avail, I think.

What would you pals suggest is the least toxic curative to soil microbes and/or earthworms?


----------



## g-man

@GoPre , I don't understand the question or context. Fungus are part of the soil microbes.


----------



## STL

See if what you're trying to treat is on the label for azoxystrobin or propiconazole. As far as earth worms, you should be fine with those and most others. Research out of the University of Kentucky has found thiophanate methyl to be severely toxic to them though, so I would avoid that one if that's a concern of yours.


----------



## GoPre

g-man said:


> @GoPre , I don't understand the question or context. Fungus are part of the soil microbes.


My bad, and I understand fungus is part of the biology. I guess I'm asking is there a "selective" fungicide that isn't toxic to beneficial soil microbes and earthworms. (i.e. Tenacity to KBG) I feel like I work hard to improve that variable of my lawn, only to nuke the microbe population when I am forced to lay a fungicide.

@STL, thank you for the reply. I strive to save my natural aerators!


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Green said:


> @Suburban Jungle Life, like I said, some of the labels have lawns on them, and some don't. Here's one that does:
> 
> https://www.natria.com/shop/natria-disease-control
> 
> Label listing lawns on it: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5ae8d84fee1759223c4de494/t/5b2a7781562fa7411849afbe/1529509762460/706140+Natira+Disease+Control+28oz+RTS.pdf
> 
> It's the exact same product, but with a different name.


Thanks. Added to OP. I agree with you regarding some products labelled for lawns and other products with the same ai not being labelled for lawns. As I had said in a previous post, the LCO can still lose their license for using the non labelled product on a lawn. For the majority of the products listed in the OP, the ai is listed so one could buy the ag version and probably save more money on it. If anyone is interested, this is a place to shop for possibly lower cost ag versions of herbicides and fungicides. I'm not against using ag versions, I'm just not going to post products with off label use for legal reasons. I'm thinking about getting a pest license and the last thing I should be doing is recommending off label use.


----------



## Green

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> Suburban Jungle Life, like I said, some of the labels have lawns on them, and some don't. Here's one that does:
> 
> https://www.natria.com/shop/natria-disease-control
> 
> Label listing lawns on it: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5ae8d84fee1759223c4de494/t/5b2a7781562fa7411849afbe/1529509762460/706140+Natira+Disease+Control+28oz+RTS.pdf
> 
> It's the exact same product, but with a different name.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. Added to OP. I agree with you regarding some products labelled for lawns and other products with the same ai not being labelled for lawns. As I had said in a previous post, the LCO can still lose their license for using the non labelled product on a lawn. For the majority of the products listed in the OP, the ai is listed so one could buy the ag version and probably save more money on it. If anyone is interested, this is a place to shop for possibly lower cost ag versions of herbicides and fungicides. I'm not against using ag versions, I'm just not going to post products with off label use for legal reasons. I'm thinking about getting a pest license and the last thing I should be doing is recommending off label use.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Totally agree. That said, I bought the AG version in a 2.5 gallon jug this Spring, and am almost through it. Trying to make it last. No outbreaks yet. The smaller bottles get expensive, though. Thanks for allowing off-label use discussions in your thread. And thanks for the link.


----------



## Green

Heads up on Scotts Thiophanate Methyl ("Lawn Fungus Control")...

I'm trying to figure out what's going on...whether or not it's discontinued now that they have Azoxystrobin.

Ace Hardware only had the Azoxy. Same with Lowes. HD had one more bag of the Thio, so I bought it since it's a small bag and I almost never use synthetic fungicides...in case it's discontinued. I already have Headway G and liquid Propiconazole.

Scotts was of little help. They said it's being renamed to "Lawn Disease Control" or something similar, and does not appear to be discontinued according to their internal listings, but it's not listed on their website anymore. The person tried to give me a link, but it redirected to the DiseaseEx (azoxy) product. I told them and they apologized, and weren't sure why.

So, either it's being discontinued, or being repackaged/renamed.


----------



## PokeGrande

Green said:


> Heads up on Scotts Thiophanate Methyl ("Lawn Fungus Control")...
> 
> I'm trying to figure out what's going on...whether or not it's discontinued now that they have Azoxystrobin.
> 
> Ace Hardware only had the Azoxy. Same with Lowes. HD had one more bag of the Thio, so I bought it since it's a small bag and I almost never use synthetic fungicides...in case it's discontinued. I already have Headway G and liquid Propiconazole.
> 
> Scotts was of little help. They said it's being renamed to "Lawn Disease Control" or something similar, and does not appear to be discontinued according to their internal listings, but it's not listed on their website anymore. The person tried to give me a link, but it redirected to the DiseaseEx (azoxy) product. I told them and they apologized, and weren't sure why.
> 
> So, either it's being discontinued, or being repackaged/renamed.


Back in May, I was looking for DiseasEx and my local HD showed it in stock. When I got there, however, it was still the Lawn Fungus Control. When ahead and bought, used it and then ordered DiseasEx online to use later. A couple months later, went to HD to get Lawn Fungus Control and they only had DiseasEx!!! lol

Anyway, 3-4 weeks ago my local Lowe's had the Lawn Fungus Control still in stock. All that to say I don't know what's going on either.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

PokeGrande said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heads up on Scotts Thiophanate Methyl ("Lawn Fungus Control")...
> 
> I'm trying to figure out what's going on...whether or not it's discontinued now that they have Azoxystrobin.
> 
> Ace Hardware only had the Azoxy. Same with Lowes. HD had one more bag of the Thio, so I bought it since it's a small bag and I almost never use synthetic fungicides...in case it's discontinued. I already have Headway G and liquid Propiconazole.
> 
> Scotts was of little help. They said it's being renamed to "Lawn Disease Control" or something similar, and does not appear to be discontinued according to their internal listings, but it's not listed on their website anymore. The person tried to give me a link, but it redirected to the DiseaseEx (azoxy) product. I told them and they apologized, and weren't sure why.
> 
> So, either it's being discontinued, or being repackaged/renamed.
> 
> 
> 
> Back in May, I was looking for DiseasEx and my local HD showed it in stock. When I got there, however, it was still the Lawn Fungus Control. When ahead and bought, used it and then ordered DiseasEx online to use later. A couple months later, went to HD to get Lawn Fungus Control and they only had DiseasEx!!! lol
> 
> Anyway, 3-4 weeks ago my local Lowe's had the Lawn Fungus Control still in stock. All that to say I don't know what's going on either.
Click to expand...

I'll probably leave it until spring and see if it is still available then.


----------



## rockinmylawn

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Yeah. 3 & 11 are the common ones and thiophanate-methyl from group 1. I would recommend looking at the per application cost for 1000 sq ft. Some of them are expensive but you get a lot so the cost is actually low, just gotta spring for the bottle first. The other choice is to try and cycle through the 3 and use something like this schedule:
> 
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days
> Thiophanate-Methyl 14 days
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days
> Thiophanate-Methyl 14 days
> 
> This gives 4 months of preventive control while using 3 MOAs. Depending on how long and harsh your summers are, this could get you through until fall. At that point, you will overseed or pound fert to fill any lost spots anyway even if you came up a few weeks short.
> ...


I overseeded yesterday & am watering 5x a day for 4 mins per zone.
With humidity, high temps still prevalent in Central VA - coinciding with the everyday watering needs of an overseeding - when & how would I want to start apply either Propiconazole - 3 (Quali-pro Propiconazole) or 
Myclobutanil - 3 (Eagle 20 EW)??


----------



## ken-n-nancy

While referring to my favorite fungicide table today I realized that I've been meaning to share it in this thread, but haven't gotten around to it yet...

I often refer to an excellent table from the University of Georgia Cooperative Extension's Guide to Turfgrass Fungicides which is a fantastic resource on the topic of selection of a specific fungicide for a particular lawn disease or to cover a couple different diseases if you have more than one disease issue in your lawn. The table can be located on pages 30 and 31, which I've also linked to directly below for ease of reference.

If you like the table, it would behoove you to look at the whole booklet -- it has lots more detail and useful information about all the items in the table, including dosage rates, repeat intervals, and related information.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Thank you @ken-n-nancy. This is something missing in this guide. Efficacy. While many products are labelled for a fungus, some are more effective than others. I wasn't sure how to incorporate this aspect as efficacy can change over time including resistance.


----------



## g-man

I wasn't sure where to place this. Since it deals with dollar spot and fungicide research, I'm adding it here. Amazing that they were still able to do the research after all the flooding they had.

https://twitter.com/uwpaul/status/1041711651727335426


----------



## NoslracNevok

I've put this info on a google sheet to making it little easier for me to sort by different things. It's a preliminary version of a sheet as part of a full workbook I'm putting together for my own lawn journal/calendar/planner.

Thought you all may find it useful as well. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I7-mmHd-HmHhZHLg3JS2TDKI1tJzLtovHkVVeYMwe_I/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

@NoslracNevok Interesting way to organize it by fungus. I choose by AI since you can quickly look to see what products covered a lot of different types of fungus. Thanks for assembling the spreadsheet. I sure it will be a useful reference. That must have taken some time to assemble!


----------



## Wlodyd

I love this place.... you guys are awesome. Thanks @NoslracNevok and @Suburban Jungle Life in particular for all this information. This checks a huge box for me as I've been rattled with disease year after year. I'm learning now and going to do everything I can to be proactive to prevent and quickly treat ongoing!


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Wlodyd said:


> I love this place.... you guys are awesome. Thanks @NoslracNevok and @Suburban Jungle Life in particular for all this information. This checks a huge box for me as I've been rattled with disease year after year. I'm learning now and going to do everything I can to be proactive to prevent and quickly treat ongoing!


 :thumbup: I think the hardest part is identifying the disease. If you have had constant problems with disease, if you can ID them, consider a reno with newer, more disease resistant cultivars. I know it is a lot of work but if you have been considering a reno, it's another good reason to add to the list. Check out NTEP reports to see which cultivars are more resistant to the common diseases you are dealing with. Other than a reno, make sure you have good cultural practices to reduce disease pressure and combine that with a preventive fungicide program. If the pros can do it, we can too!


----------



## Wlodyd

Yup, I've considered a reno. I've got an original contractor's mix from when the house was built 17 years ago, so I'm sure the cultivar has something to do with it. I beat up my existing turf pretty good and did a heavy overseed this fall, so hopefully a lot of that takes root and will help.

Going to focus on "Tier 2" level of program on my turf next year and see how it goes. I have two young kids and a 3rd on the way, so it's tough to go without a lawn (or keep them off growing grass!) for a significant period of time. Down the road I may consider renovating just the front, or a portion of the back and see how it goes.


----------



## NoslracNevok

@Suburban Jungle Life You can sort by any column; AI, Fungux, MOA, FRAC group. The most useful part (for me) of your OP, is the #/$ system, quite clever. I'm deciding the best way of transcribing that portion and avoiding convolution of the sheet.

@Wlodyd Without sheets, I'd be lost in many areas of life.


----------



## Mozart

I have an active rust problem. Google says that this may be due to insufficient nitrogen which seems unlikely because I've been doing the fall Nitrogen blitz.

I'm planning to apply Propiconazole at the curative rate to my entire lawn (the rust has an irregular pattern but seems to be fairly widespread).

Is it alright if I also apply Nitrogen? On one hand Google says lack of N causes rust, but on the other I've heard/read that Nitrogen makes fungal issues worse.

Does anyone know how long it will take to resolve using Propiconazole, and is azoxystrobin better?


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Mozart said:


> I have an active rust problem. Google says that this may be due to insufficient nitrogen which seems unlikely because I've been doing the fall Nitrogen blitz.
> 
> I'm planning to apply Propiconazole at the curative rate to my entire lawn (the rust has an irregular pattern but seems to be fairly widespread).
> 
> Is it alright if I also apply Nitrogen? On one hand Google says lack of N causes rust, but on the other I've heard/read that Nitrogen makes fungal issues worse.
> 
> Does anyone know how long it will take to resolve using Propiconazole, and is azoxystrobin better?


Both are supposed to be good for rust. Maybe combining them might be even more effective since you are using multiple MOAs. Most fungal problems leave a lasting mark on the leaf so to get rid of the look, it has to grow out and be mowed off. I'm not sure if rust does leave a mark on the leaf or not. If not, once cured, the grass should look nice. If it does leave visible damage, then you have to mow it off... Sorry, I'm not that familiar with rust. I haven't experienced it myself. Brown patch and pythium, sure. All the time!


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

NoslracNevok said:


> @Suburban Jungle Life You can sort by any column; AI, Fungux, MOA, FRAC group. The most useful part (for me) of your OP, is the #/$ system, quite clever. I'm deciding the best way of transcribing that portion and avoiding convolution of the sheet.


I listed the actual dollar amounts on the 3rd page. The problem is the costs keep going up for most products so I choose to symbolize it instead of using numbers. This way I can double check costs once a year and the guide should hold true for most products. That pricing took quite a while to put together...


----------



## g-man

Rust spores affect the leaf by preventing photosynthesis. The fungicide gets rid of the spores and spreading, but the lawn needs to grow new leaves to recuperate. Clean your mower between areas with rust and areas without it. Bag the clippings in the rust area and dispose them.

The recovery in the fall is slow with less sun, colder temps and more humid days. In a young grass it might not recover until next spring or at all.


----------



## Mozart

Thanks for the feedback @Suburban Jungle Life and @g-man.

My plan will be:
1) apply Propiconazole only (only found propi at store)
2) clean mower blade
3) mow baby grass
4) mow seemingly unaffected areas
5) mow affected areas

Might mow first before propi.

No rust found on baby grass yet, thankfully.

I think it makes sense to mow when the grass is damp. My thinking is that this will help keep spores down. Hate to clean up a big mess but the alternative might be worse.


----------



## g-man

more steps:

5) mow affected areas while bagging.
6) in the street with a hose, clean mower/shoes after mowing affected areas. Dont walk the affected areas. Dont let the dog into the affected areas.
7) keep feeding nitrogen (it helps with rust).


----------



## Mozart

g-man said:


> more steps:
> 
> 5) mow affected areas while bagging.
> 6) in the street with a hose, clean mower/shoes after mowing affected areas. Dont walk the affected areas. Dont let the dog into the affected areas.
> 7) keep feeding nitrogen (it helps with rust).


Thanks these extra steps are helpful. Not sure if I can hose down my Ego mower (it's battery powered - does that matter?) but if not I will try to be thorough in wiping it down.


----------



## NoslracNevok

@Mozart Ego says not to clean using water, I do it anyway.

"remove any build-up of grass and leaves on or around the motor cover (do not use water). Wipe the mower clean with a 
dry cloth." (page 24 of pdf)

https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/1f/1f25ae13-a6b9-4a59-b852-c90a6048e0c4.pdf


----------



## Stellar P

This post was in Warm Season Lawns. Wondering if any of you can comment on the topic?

I've put a lot of effort to rid my lawn of Gray Leaf Spot. I stopped adding Nitrogen. I alternated different modes of action (Azoxystrobin and Propiconazole) with overlapping applications during the appropriate windows of opportunity. Maintained good watering habits. I'm at a loss. I walked through the back yard this past weekend because it's becoming a little bit overgrown due to missed mows for a abandoned Celsius app and weather. The Gray Leaf Spot is very prominent in my lawn. I seriously just want to quit for the year. If I do decide to let the fungus go into the winter will it be like starting off new in the spring, or will the lawn still have the fungus from the time it comes out of dormancy?


May 13th - Last Nitrogen App
FRONT & BACK - MILO @ 1 lb N/M


July 15th - Scott's DiseaseEx (Azoxystrobin...00.31%)
FRONT YARD - 2 lbs/M - Preventative rate


July 27th - Scott's DiseaseEx(Azoxystrobin...00.31%)
BACK YARD - 4 lbs/M - Curative rate


Aug30th - Propiconazole...14.3%
FRONT YARD - 3.2 oz/M (Measurement mistake - Label rate = 1-2 oz/M)
BACK YARD - 2 oz/M


Sept 19th - Scott's DiseaseEx (Azoxystrobin...00.31%)
FRONT % BACK - 2 lbs/M - Preventative rate


Sept 30th - Fall Pre-Emergent App - Prodiamine 65 WDG

I'm beyond frustrated. I can't wait until I move and decide to put down a grass type that is less prone to disease

***EDIT: Changed 1-2 oz/M of Scott's DiseaseEx to 2-4 lbs/M


----------



## g-man

Do you have a thread with pictures?


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Are they sure it is grey leaf spot? If so, I'm confused on the measurements you listed for scotts diseaseex. 2oz/M? That doesn't make sense to me. It is 4 lb/M for a curative rate and for 14 days before putting down another fungicide app. Azoxystrobin is supposed to work well on GLS. For some reason, if that doesn't work, as a last resort, I would hit it with a liquid version of a mix of azxoystrobin, propiconazole, and thiophanate methyl with NIS. It also has to grow out so usually, it'll actually look worse for a week or more while new growth emerges and the old is mowed off. As g-man said, pics would be really helpful.

So, July 15 on the front was a preventive rate of azoxy. That is only if they didn't see it yet as that rate is to help prevent the disease from developing. Then, 45 days later, they hit it with propi at a curative rate but propi is only OK on GLS, not great. If they have an existing GLS outbreak, why the big wait between apps? A curative rate only lasts 14 days and it is double the preventive rate since you need a lot more to knock back an outbreak. Three weeks later they put down another preventive rate? I don't think they used enough fungicide to control their GLS outbreak.


----------



## Stellar P

g-man said:


> Do you have a thread with pictures?


No Thread. These were taken tonight.











Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Are they sure it is grey leaf spot? If so, I'm confused on the measurements you listed for scotts diseaseex. 2oz/M? That doesn't make sense to me. It is 4 lb/M for a curative rate and for 14 days before putting down another fungicide app. Azoxystrobin is supposed to work well on GLS. For some reason, if that doesn't work, as a last resort, I would hit it with a liquid version of a mix of azxoystrobin, propiconazole, and thiophanate methyl with NIS. It also has to grow out so usually, it'll actually look worse for a week or more while new growth emerges and the old is mowed off. As g-man said, pics would be really helpful.
> 
> So, July 15 on the front was a preventive rate of azoxy. That is only if they didn't see it yet as that rate is to help prevent the disease from developing. Then, 45 days later, they hit it with propi at a curative rate but propi is only OK on GLS, not great. If they have an existing GLS outbreak, why the big wait between apps? A curative rate only lasts 14 days and it is double the preventive rate since you need a lot more to knock back an outbreak. Three weeks later they put down another preventive rate? I don't think they used enough fungicide to control their GLS outbreak.


I'm pretty sure it is Gray Leaf Spot. I modified my above post to reflect the correct preventative and curative rate. Good eye. Not sure what I was thinking.

I was under the impression that Azoxystrobin had a 28 day residual and 14 days for Propiconazole. Regardless, I didn't dedicate the time to get the Fungicide down in time for the front yard. Honestly, the front Is looking nice. The back yard is getting is arse kicked! I went with Propiconazole as my second mode of action because it was recommended as a decent group 3 for St Aug (Fertilome Liquid Systemic Fungicide II - I think @Ecks from Tex recommended it. AI is Propiconazole.) What is a better group 3 for Gray Leaf Spot? I did a preventative rate for my last app because I simply assumed that a curative rate would be a lot for my grass type to handle. Lesson learned I guess. I'm going to look into incorporating a group 1 into the mix in Spring 2019.

EDIT: Typo


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Stellar P said:


> I'm pretty sure it is *Gay Lead Spot*.


Umm... Is that a club?

Great pics! Love it with the paper background. Really easy to see the detail! This should be the go to method of pics!! :thumbup:

With azoxy, 28 days at 2lb/M is the preventive rate. This rate should be used before disease is present when conditions promoting disease are high. i.e. high humidity, warm temps, high nitrogen levels. If you only see a tiny bit, you might be ok with the preventive rate. If it is widespread, you should use the curative rate which is 4lb/M for 14 days. After that time, you should run a second app at that rate again or switch to thiophanate methyl also at curative rate. After 30 days from initial app, it should be cured and then switch to preventive rates of whichever products you choose. You can run preventive rates all summer back to back or check the weather and put it down when conditions for fungal pressure are high. i.e. the day before hot, humid, rain, etc. If you are at the end of the 28 days for your preventive rate and the weather is drier at that time without rain, you can hold off on the next app. Also, be sure to cycle through a few MOA's or you might end up with a resistant fungus to azoxy and it'll be harder to cure.


----------



## Ecks from Tex

Stellar P said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a thread with pictures?
> 
> 
> 
> No Thread. These were taken tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are they sure it is grey leaf spot? If so, I'm confused on the measurements you listed for scotts diseaseex. 2oz/M? That doesn't make sense to me. It is 4 lb/M for a curative rate and for 14 days before putting down another fungicide app. Azoxystrobin is supposed to work well on GLS. For some reason, if that doesn't work, as a last resort, I would hit it with a liquid version of a mix of azxoystrobin, propiconazole, and thiophanate methyl with NIS. It also has to grow out so usually, it'll actually look worse for a week or more while new growth emerges and the old is mowed off. As g-man said, pics would be really helpful.
> 
> So, July 15 on the front was a preventive rate of azoxy. That is only if they didn't see it yet as that rate is to help prevent the disease from developing. Then, 45 days later, they hit it with propi at a curative rate but propi is only OK on GLS, not great. If they have an existing GLS outbreak, why the big wait between apps? A curative rate only lasts 14 days and it is double the preventive rate since you need a lot more to knock back an outbreak. Three weeks later they put down another preventive rate? I don't think they used enough fungicide to control their GLS outbreak.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty sure it is Gray Leaf Spot. I modified my above post to reflect the correct preventative and curative rate. Good eye. Not sure what I was thinking.
> 
> I was under the impression that Azoxystrobin had a 28 day residual and 14 days for Propiconazole. Regardless, I didn't dedicate the time to get the Fungicide down in time for the front yard. Honestly, the front Is looking nice. The back yard is getting is arse kicked! I went with Propiconazole as my second mode of action because it was recommended as a decent group 3 for St Aug (Fertilome Liquid Systemic Fungicide II - I think @Ecks from Tex recommended it. AI is Propiconazole.) What is a better group 3 for Gray Leaf Spot? I did a preventative rate for my last app because I simply assumed that a curative rate would be a lot for my grass type to handle. Lesson learned I guess. I'm going to look into incorporating a group 1 into the mix in Spring 2019.
> 
> EDIT: Typo
Click to expand...

If I recall, at the time, you were looking for an over-the-counter fungicide. I recommend the Fertilome if that's the case. But if you are looking for a better product, you can get it at do my own, etc.


----------



## g-man

@Stellar P I think you should start a thread to get a more targeted recommendation and keep this thread more general to fungicides. I noticed that you also used Celsius at some point. I'm not sure mixing it with a fungus is not great.


----------



## Stellar P

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Stellar P said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it is *Gay Lead Spot*.
> 
> 
> 
> Umm... Is that a club?
Click to expand...

 :lol: I'm having some real typo problems lately. I wasn't paying close enough attention to my composition while watching the ALCS.



Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Great pics! Love it with the paper background. Really easy to see the detail! This should be the go to method of pics!! :thumbup:


I agree with making it the standard. I saw someone else post with the blade on paper and the blade profile just popped out to me. Can't remember who it was, but thanks of the idea whoever you were.



Suburban Jungle Life said:


> With azoxy, 28 days at 2lb/M is the preventive rate. This rate should be used before disease is present when conditions promoting disease are high. i.e. high humidity, warm temps, high nitrogen levels. If you only see a tiny bit, you might be ok with the preventive rate. If it is widespread, you should use the curative rate which is 4lb/M for 14 days. After that time, you should run a second app at that rate again or switch to thiophanate methyl also at curative rate. After 30 days from initial app, it should be cured and then switch to preventive rates of whichever products you choose. You can run preventive rates all summer back to back or check the weather and put it down when conditions for fungal pressure are high.* i.e. the day before hot, humid*, rain, etc. If you are at the end of the 28 days for your preventive rate and the weather is drier at that time without rain, you can hold off on the next app. Also, be sure to cycle through a few MOA's or you might end up with a resistant fungus to azoxy and it'll be harder to cure.


Hot and Humid = Mid March to Mid October on my side of town. I'd be single if I had to spend fungicide money on the yard throughout a consistent 7-7.5 month program. Fungicide has cost me a majority of my budget for lawncare once I opened that box. I guess during the mid summer (July-August) when temps are ~100 degrees, the intense heat might make the disease pressure less due to drying out the blades quicker.

Regardless, I see adding a better MOA (group 1) in Spring 2019 + having a more detailed gameplan of my (Spring - Fall) Fungicide residuals and overlapping apps. Now that I think about it, I'm glad that I've faced these hurdles. Hands on experience has no substitute in learning.



Ecks from Tex said:


> If I recall, at the time, you were looking for an over-the-counter fungicide. I recommend the Fertilome if that's the case. But if you are looking for a better product, you can get it at do my own, etc.


I'm actually considering going with my original route of Chlorothalonil, even though I talked myself out of doing the app for environmental, health/safety and pet reasons. I'll take the winter to contemplate what I'll move forward with. @gatormac2112... I know you did a couple apps of it. What is your verdict?

Found the thread where we talked about it.

Excerpt from the above thread: 


Ecks from Tex said:


> If you are concerned, you can easily pick up a fertilome systemic fungicide at ACE for $20. I use a more expensive product called Eagle 20 most of the time but fertilome has a good entry level fungicide.



You're right. I wasn't trying to discredit your advise. I just took the recommended AI and jumped in with both feet. In hindsight, you obviously recommended a better group 1 fungicide.



g-man said:


> @Stellar P I think you should start a thread to get a more targeted recommendation and keep this thread more general to fungicides. I noticed that you also used Celsius at some point. I'm not sure mixing it with a fungus is not great.


If you want to (re)move my post, no worries. I wasn't trying to muddy the water with info specific to my situation. Just tried to get eyes on it. I'll create a separate post from here on out. :crying:


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

@Stellar P Over the winter, put together a preventive fungicide program and compare pricing. Preventive is half rate usually and longer intervals so it does cost less than constantly chasing it after the fact with a curative. Especially if you have extended conditions for fungus. On the first page, I gave some examples of what you could do. Plenty of time to run numbers...


----------



## Stellar P

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> @Stellar P Over the winter, put together a preventive fungicide program and compare pricing. Preventive is half rate usually and longer intervals so it does cost less than constantly chasing it after the fact with a curative. Especially if you have extended conditions for fungus. On the first page, I gave some examples of what you could do. Plenty of time to run numbers...


Will do. Thanks for all your input. :thumbup:


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

I added in some efficacy ratings. I used a few sources and some of them contradict each other but I did what I could.


----------



## Hauss316

I purchased some clearys 3336 and heritage G for a bad case of grey leaf spot. Should I apply both at once for the first treatment?


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Hauss316 said:


> I purchased some clearys 3336 and heritage G for a bad case of grey leaf spot. Should I apply both at once for the first treatment?


Both combined would give you better control as you are attacking the fungus from two different modes. As a curative, you could do a combo of both at preventive rates. If you have a really bad outbreak, then its up to you, but you could run both at curative rates. Won't be cheap though...


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

I thought the Scotts Lawn Fungus Control was going to be discontinued. I didn't find it on the Home Depot website but a few Lowes in my area still have it. One has 33 bags in stock! Anyone else still seeing stock?


----------



## PokeGrande

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> I thought the Scotts Lawn Fungus Control was going to be discontinued. I didn't find it on the Home Depot website but a few Lowes in my area still have it. One has 33 bags in stock! Anyone else still seeing stock?


Saw a bag or two in my local Ace Hardware over the weekend.


----------



## Green

PokeGrande said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the Scotts Lawn Fungus Control was going to be discontinued. I didn't find it on the Home Depot website but a few Lowes in my area still have it. One has 33 bags in stock! Anyone else still seeing stock?
> 
> 
> 
> Saw a bag or two in my local Ace Hardware over the weekend.
Click to expand...

My Ace has none, only DiseaseEx, but I bought the last bag HD had in early Sept.

Did the name or bag design change?

Only one Lowes in my area lists 3 in stock. Sounds like they're running down the supply they have.

As far as HD, I don't even see it listed anymore online.


----------



## g-man

Scott's website doesnt have the old version anymore. https://www.scotts.com/en-us/products/insect-grub-disease-control


----------



## PokeGrande

The Lowe's closest to me has 31 in stock. None of the other Tulsa area Lowe's have any in stock according to their website.


----------



## Dontech

Hey guys, I have been reading this post because I am trying to get a fungicide plan together for next year. So far from reading this I have come up with the following rotation. I am looking for comments to make sure I am doing this correctly. please advise if I am wrong.

Clearys 3336F 2oz/m 14 days
Azoxy .5oz/M 28 days
Propiconazole 2oz/M 14 days

Would this be a good rotation and application rate for each of the listed products as a preventative application of each?
Is there a better schedule/application rate for each?

I have tall fescue 1 acre and live in south Jersey/


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

@Dontech Good 3 to rotate. In the OP, the # is the cost per 1M. With 40M, it's going to add up real fast. Cleary 3336EG is much lower cost/M. Also, all the products in the OP were priced on smallest quantity available. Shop around and compare prices for large quantities to save more $/M. You can easily go from $120 per app to $40 with the same product. Check out the quick links at the top of the page to compare prices as well as pestrong.com and chemicalwarehouse.com


----------



## Dontech

Are my application rates close to what they should be for preventative applications??

Thanks for the help!


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Dontech said:


> Are my application rates close to what they should be for preventative applications??
> 
> Thanks for the help!
> 
> Clearys 3336F 2oz/m 14 days
> Azoxy .5oz/M 28 days
> Propiconazole 2oz/M 14 days


If those are the products you choose,
Cleary 3336F at 2oz/M is fine for dollar spot but brown patch is labelled at 4oz/M. 14 days. Keep in mind, the max annual is 8oz/M. You can start low and if you start seeing breakthrough, use 4 in the future.

Which azoxy? 2SC or 50 WDG?
50 WDG is 0.2 oz/M for preventive at 28 days.
2SC is 0.38 floz/M for 28 days.

Which brand propiconazole? There are many different formulations and concentrations.
The 14.3% is 1 floz/M labelled for 21 days but I didn't find that to be effective. I use it at 1 floz/M for 14 days. It's not that expensive so if you wanted to use it at 2 floz/M, you could do that too.


----------



## Dontech

Okay. Thanks for the help so far. 
Let me ask this. I choose those fungicides just from the research here, trying to find and put together a solid proactive schedule of products at resonable cost. I am very new to the world of fungicides and have just usually battled through the year and fixed damage in the fall. Are there any schedules of products and application rates that you guys run that have been affective? It may be better to start that way then to try and put something together from scratch with little experience. I do have a larger yard so that is a factor. I do use spray equipment for my herbicides and bio stimulants.

Or stick with what I have so far?
Thanks guys!


----------



## jdc_lawnguy

g-man said:


> Tebuconazole is sold as Bayer Advance Disease Control For Roses, Flowers & Shrubs, but it is not labeled for lawn use.
> 
> I agree with Suburban Jungle Life. Lets not recommend using products that are not labeled for residential lawns.


Over the last few weeks I have been digging into fungicides a bit. I am wondering if anyone knows why some are labeled for residential and others aren't. It seems like a lot of the more economical fungicides, such as TM/C WDG, are labeled for golf course but not residential?

Wondering if anyone knows how these classifications are made? Is it up to the manufacturer, or a regulatory body? Does it have to do with the precautions needed during application? I am really just a noob try to better understand and expand my knowledge base.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

jdc_lawnguy said:


> Over the last few weeks I have been digging into fungicides a bit. I am wondering if anyone knows why some are labeled for residential and others aren't. It seems like a lot of the more economical fungicides, such as TM/C WDG, are labeled for golf course but not residential?
> 
> Wondering if anyone knows how these classifications are made? Is it up to the manufacturer, or a regulatory body? Does it have to do with the precautions needed during application? I am really just a noob try to better understand and expand my knowledge base.


Thiophanate-methyl is fine for residential. TM/C contains Chlorothalonil which isn't. If you read the label for Chlorothalonil, you should wear a respirator with an organic or chemical filter. In the residential setting, they expect people to ignore the label and walk barefoot after being sprayed. Chlorothalonil can irritate skin and cause eye damage. Since it's not safe in that regard, it is excluded from residential use.

As for who makes this determination, I'm not sure. Probably EPA. Some regulating body has deemed it not safe enough for that application. The manufacturer probably has to pay for testing before it can be approved so they can sell it for that application. I'm sure some manufacturers don't feel it's worth that cost so there may be other products which are excluded but not for health reasons.

Does this mean you can't use it? With soil residuals, it can test positive for use if you are wondering about getting in trouble for off label use. Chlorothalonil is labelled for residential use on shrubs and landscaping so you can have it at home. Most people don't go rubbing up and touching shrubs... If you did use it for the lawn, I would keep that to yourself...

For home use, the three economic ones are: thiophanate-methyl, propiconazole, and azoxystrobin. Be sure to buy in bulk, buy generic, and compare app prices between different brands and on all these sites or locally if available: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7


----------



## jdc_lawnguy

@Suburban Jungle Life thanks. Your response is very helpful and reinforces a lot of the conclusions I had come to after reading through this and some of the labels and SDS's.


----------



## Stellar P

jdc_lawnguy said:


> Over the last few weeks I have been digging into fungicides a bit. I am wondering if anyone knows why some are labeled for residential and others aren't. It seems like a lot of the more economical fungicides, such as TM/C WDG, are labeled for golf course but not residential?
> 
> Wondering if anyone knows how these classifications are made? Is it up to the manufacturer, or a regulatory body? Does it have to do with the precautions needed during application? I am really just a noob try to better understand and expand my knowledge base.


I made this post, below, a while back in another thread about algae in someone's lawn.
3rd and 4th link talk about the fungicide's toxicity and why being a negligent applicator can harm the populations around you. Easy to die from inhalation! It's some nasty stuff. I'm sure the EPA is in charge of regulation for fungicides. Don't quote me on it, but It makes sense.



Stellar P said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not labeled for home lawns........
> 
> 
> 
> Link to another post where I did the conversion for (Oz/Gallon/1000 Sq Ft.) of Daconil (AI = Chlorothalonil). 7th post from the top.
> 
> I bought the Daconil from Home Depot as a quick decision for gray leaf spot. Chlorothalonil was one of the recommended active ingredients on this TAMU website. @Ecks from Tex got me second guessing the product I was going to use and although I was able to come up with a application rate for Daconil, I looked further into WHY it was not labeled for lawns. Consensus seems to be that it has a high toxicity to marine life and the water supply. Home owners aren't always the best at controlling runoff from their turf, which will end up in the water supply. Especially if you've got heavy clay soil. I know this is an older article (2003), but it also highlights the disadvantages to having it accessible to irresponsible applicators.
> 
> I live close to a lake that supplies water to a large county in suburban Houston, feeds into Lake Houston which supplies water to Houston itself. So I decided to not use the Daconil (Chlorothalonil).
Click to expand...


----------



## iFisch3224

Interesting - I live about 300 feet from a large lake that is channeled into 2 other large lakes, some of which the Bass Master Classic fishing tournament is held, and definitely want to respect the waterways as well. I have yet to use Daconil, but it makes sense now that I should pay a little more attention to what I'm applying and why (especially in regards to fungicides).

So far this year I've used Eagle 20, Scotts DiseaseEx granular and 1 application of Clearly's 3336.


----------



## jdc_lawnguy

@Stellar P, thanks for the info. The environmental impact is definitely a concern.

My inquiry was truly that intellectually curiosity. As an analyst, I like to see things end to end, not just accept them as is, so I appreciate you sharing this level of info.

Being fairly new to fungicides I have looked pretty closely at not just the labels, but the SDS. I want to ensure I have a good grasp on what I am putting on my lawn and what I should be using for PPE.

There isn't much sense in putting all this work in, if I am not going to be around to admire it.


----------



## 440mag

Just had to stop what I am in the middle of (online ordering chemicals for the 2019 season) to post a HUGE shoutout and THANK YOU and endless Gratitude for posting this guide!!!!

It ... is ... INDISPENSIBLE!!!!

I was up at 4:30 and, after doing a complete inventory of what we have on-and and then reviewing my log notes from last season THIS GUIDE SAVED ME COUNTLESS HOURS of research, Research and MORE RESEARCH to avoid applying ineffective or contra-indicated products AS WELL AS spending unwisely / unnecesarily.

Up a couple hours now herself, and being a retired auditor, the wifey occassionally walked by on her way to coffeemaker, would glance over my shoulder and comment, "*Whomever took the time to contribute that work is a Saint!*"

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

440mag said:


> Just had to stop what I am in the middle of (online ordering chemicals for the 2019 season) to post a HUGE shoutout and THANK YOU and endless Gratitude for posting this guide!!!!
> 
> It ... is ... INDISPENSIBLE!!!!
> 
> I was up at 4:30 and, after doing a complete inventory of what we have on-and and then reviewing my log notes from last season THIS GUIDE SAVED ME COUNTLESS HOURS of research, Research and MORE RESEARCH to avoid applying ineffective or contra-indicated products AS WELL AS spending unwisely / unnecesarily.
> 
> Up a couple hours now herself, and being a retired auditor, the wifey occassionally walked by on her way to coffeemaker, would glance over my shoulder and comment, "*Whomever took the time to contribute that work is a Saint!*"
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


 :thumbsup: :beer: Glad it was helpful! I use it as my own reference too...


----------



## Alex1389

Quick question on this. If I were to use the below plan, how would I get dollar spot control during the Azoxystrobin rotation period?

3 MOA:
Azoxystrobin 28 days
Propiconazole 14 days
Thiophanate-methyl 14 days


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Alex1389 said:


> Quick question on this. If I were to use the below plan, how would I get dollar spot control during the Azoxystrobin rotation period?
> 
> 3 MOA:
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days
> Thiophanate-methyl 14 days


While this plan is economical, available at local home stores, and it does greatly reduce outbreaks of fungus, I wouldn't use this as a curative plan. It is designed as a preventive plan both to reduce cost through lower rates and reduce the chance of fungus outbreaks. It doesn't cover every type of fungus and there is a chance (albeit lower) of fungus outbreaks on this type of plan. All three types of fungicide don't control every type of fungus. Using them one at at time and at half rate only reduces the chance of an outbreak at the benefit of cost and reduced chemical usage. If you see damage from fungus, you should switch to a curative plan including curative rates which are normally double and combining 2 or more MOA's is a good idea until the problem is corrected before switching back to a preventive plan.

If you want a more fool proof type of plan (no guarantees with nature though), I would recommend using 2-3 MOA's at once and be sure to rotate to an additional 2-3 MOA's. You would need 5-6 MOA's with a broad spectrum which probably won't be available on a residential setting. If you add chlorothalonil and a few others, then this becomes more realistic but they aren't labelled for residential use on turf.

I have problems with brown patch so I focus on that. If you are dealing with dollar spot and brown patch, perhaps consider a mixed plan such as this using preventive rates. It will cost more though.
App 1: Azoxystrobin & propiconazole
App 2: 2 weeks later, propiconazole
App 3: 4 weeks later, Thiophanate methyl & Fluxapyroxad or Penthiopyrad
App 4: 6 weeks later, ZeroTol
App 5: 7 weeks later, ZeroTol
8 weeks later, repeat at App 1.
Reserve use of mefenoxam for times of seeding, high humidity, and watering when pythium blight is a bigger problem.


----------



## Alex1389

Thanks, @Suburban Jungle Life!

I mainly deal with dollar spot and brown patch, but the dollar spot usually seems to resolve without too many issues. I could probably just forego preventative treatments on it during the Azoxy rotation and hope for the best.


----------



## Green

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> I thought the Scotts Lawn Fungus Control was going to be discontinued. I didn't find it on the Home Depot website but a few Lowes in my area still have it. One has 33 bags in stock! Anyone else still seeing stock?


Guess what I saw as HD today! A full row of the Scott's Thiophanate Methyl. Will post a photo soon. That was indoors. Just under $20/bag.

On the other side of the wall (outside in the garden center) they had 2 rows of the Scott's Azoxy for $10.98 per bag.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Green said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the Scotts Lawn Fungus Control was going to be discontinued. I didn't find it on the Home Depot website but a few Lowes in my area still have it. One has 33 bags in stock! Anyone else still seeing stock?
> 
> 
> 
> Guess what I saw as HD today! A full row of the Scott's Thiophanate Methyl. Will post a photo soon. That was indoors. Just under $20/bag.
> 
> On the other side of the wall (outside in the garden center) they had 2 rows of the Scott's Azoxy for $10.98 per bag.
Click to expand...

Wow. The scotts azoxy is $20 here! You got it cheap!

Here, home depot doesn't have any scotts thio. Lowes only has it in 1 store here. It might be a little early though in the season for fungus here so maybe they haven't stocked yet.

I wonder if you are seeing new old stock or if they decided to continue it. It's nice to have the options for rotation. What are others seeing?


----------



## ryeguy

This is my second year caring for my lawn. I had no fungal issues last year even when going pretty heavy on the N. I live in Michigan, so summers are mild.

I'm looking for general advice on a fungicide strategy. Should I just have some on hand and be reactive? Or should I go the preventative route even though I don't have enough experience to know the types of fungal issues my lawn could experience and don't know what disease conditions look like?

Said differently, would you say that a preventative program is ideal if you are ok with the cost and labor, just to be safe? Or is it something you grow into once you observe your lawn over the years?


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

ryeguy said:


> This is my second year caring for my lawn. I had no fungal issues last year even when going pretty heavy on the N. I live in Michigan, so summers are mild.
> 
> I'm looking for general advice on a fungicide strategy. Should I just have some on hand and be reactive? Or should I go the preventative route even though I don't have enough experience to know the types of fungal issues my lawn could experience and don't know what disease conditions look like?
> 
> Said differently, would you say that a preventative program is ideal if you are ok with the cost and labor, just to be safe? Or is it something you grow into once you observe your lawn over the years?


I would say it depends on your climate, fungal history, and your standards (how ocd you are). In the transition zone with cool season grass, fungus tends to be more common. If you live in an open area and have plenty of wind, it doesn't rain all the time, it isn't super humid, etc., maybe you just have minimal fungus problems. If they are minimal and you just get a touch here and there but they clear up without any damage, maybe save your $. Fungicides can be quite pricey. Perhaps, observe the lawn and be reactive the first year if you see a problem. In transition areas, some places will lose large patches of grass if they don't use fungicides. Some lawn maintenance plans over do and/or poorly time the fert and water and they have more fungus to deal with but of their own doing. If you experience fungus, you could use a curative and then keep a preventive plan the rest of summer/high fungal pressure times. With 5M, local store bought products can get pricey if you need it. If you haven't noticed it in the past, maybe just wait to see if you have a problem or not. If cost is no concern, stick with a curative this year and use a preventive plan next year based on your experience with fungal pressure. I don't usually recommend more chemicals if you don't need it. In Michigan, maybe your summers are great but you might experience snow mold and need fungicides in late fall/early spring. Again, go based on your experience in your yard.

TLDR: Use curative as needed. If lots of fungus this year, use preventive next year.


----------



## SpiveyJr

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the Scotts Lawn Fungus Control was going to be discontinued. I didn't find it on the Home Depot website but a few Lowes in my area still have it. One has 33 bags in stock! Anyone else still seeing stock?
> 
> 
> 
> Guess what I saw as HD today! A full row of the Scott's Thiophanate Methyl. Will post a photo soon. That was indoors. Just under $20/bag.
> 
> On the other side of the wall (outside in the garden center) they had 2 rows of the Scott's Azoxy for $10.98 per bag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow. The scotts azoxy is $20 here! You got it cheap!
> 
> Here, home depot doesn't have any scotts thio. Lowes only has it in 1 store here. It might be a little early though in the season for fungus here so maybe they haven't stocked yet.
> 
> I wonder if you are seeing new old stock or if they decided to continue it. It's nice to have the options for rotation. What are others seeing?
Click to expand...

FYI - Amazon has Scott's Disease Ex for $11 shipped. I just ordered 2 right now and it will be here tomorrow.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

SpiveyJr said:


> FYI - Amazon has Scott's Disease Ex for $11 shipped. I just ordered 2 right now and it will be here tomorrow.


Thanks for sharing! Great price! Now everyone can get in on it!!! It's cheaper than many spray options too!


----------



## N LA Hacker

Limit of 3 in case anyone was wondering.


----------



## jjepeto

SpiveyJr said:


> FYI - Amazon has Scott's Disease Ex for $11 shipped. I just ordered 2 right now and it will be here tomorrow.


Thanks for the heads up, I grabbed 2 bags also.


----------



## Stellar P

N LA Hacker said:


> Limit of 3 in case anyone was wondering.


How many amazon accounts are you limited to?
:lol: :rofl:


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Stellar P said:


> N LA Hacker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Limit of 3 in case anyone was wondering.
> 
> 
> 
> How many amazon accounts are you limited to?
> :lol: :rofl:
Click to expand...

OMG.


----------



## gm560

I think you guys found a glitch in the matrix. $19 for me


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

gm560 said:


> I think you guys found a glitch in the matrix. $19 for me


Oh man. What happened? I checked it earlier and it was on sale.


----------



## ryeguy

gm560 said:


> I think you guys found a glitch in the matrix. $19 for me


I just checked an amazon price tracker and it shows the price dropped for just 24 hours. It's back to the normal price of $19 now, which is what it has been at since January. Guess we missed out 

Still a buck cheaper than my local home depot though.


----------



## Riverpilot

Just curious if anyone here uses Serenade as preventative? It seems to work well when I can keep up with the treatments, every two weeks or every week depending on conditions. Last year I did a lousy job getting it down and ended up with rust and I think dollar spot.

I may try Lesco Eagle granular this year if conditions are bad.


----------



## CenlaLowell

I know there not mentioned in the guide but has anyone tried syngenta abound or Bayer exteris stress guard? Pros and cons?


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

CenlaLowell said:


> I know there not mentioned in the guide but has anyone tried syngenta abound or Bayer exteris stress guard? Pros and cons?


Abound is just azoxy but not labelled for grass. The guide includes products only labelled for grass.

Exteris looks like a good product. It's a combo of a 7 and 11. It doesn't specify residential on the label but it does say "other turf areas" which is open to interpretation. Each product individually does say residential though so I added it to the list. Fluopyram on it's own is labelled only for dollar spot but it also states it controls nematodes which they left out on the exteris label. Not sure why they would do that. Combos are always a good choice in a fungicide program!

If you wanted, you could roll your own 7 and ll combo with penthipyrad if you want a wider range of controls or isofetamid for a lower cost but only dollar spot just like fluopyram. As for their choice of trifloxystrobin, you could substitute azoxy.

I haven't run the numbers to see if rolling your own could reduce cost but if exteris is $281.25 for 2.5 gal and brown patch rate is 2.1 floz, that's $1.85/M which is a good price for a combo product. If you can find a lower price, then hey, why not? I would consider using this but I have a bunch of azoxy so I wouldn't want to overlap.

Rotating exteris with a group 1 & 3 would be a great program. 2.5 gal of exteris is a lot but a split would make it more reasonable and accessible.


----------



## stotea

Riverpilot said:


> Just curious if anyone here uses Serenade as preventative? It seems to work well when I can keep up with the treatments, every two weeks or every week depending on conditions. Last year I did a lousy job getting it down and ended up with rust and I think dollar spot.
> 
> I may try Lesco Eagle granular this year if conditions are bad.


I started using Serenade ASO last year. I still had powdery mildew and rust, but neither was as severe as the year prior. There are several other variables involved, of course, so I can't say for certain whether or not the Serenade actually helped. The biggest downside is how frequently it needs to be applied.


----------



## Riverpilot

stotea said:


> Riverpilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just curious if anyone here uses Serenade as preventative? It seems to work well when I can keep up with the treatments, every two weeks or every week depending on conditions. Last year I did a lousy job getting it down and ended up with rust and I think dollar spot.
> 
> I may try Lesco Eagle granular this year if conditions are bad.
> 
> 
> 
> I started using Serenade ASO last year. I still had powdery mildew and rust, but neither was as severe as the year prior. There are several other variables involved, of course, so I can't say for certain whether or not the Serenade actually helped. The biggest downside is how frequently it needs to be applied.
Click to expand...

Application rate is definitely a minus for me as well. However, I like the fact that it's, supposedly, less harmful to the good bacteria in the ground. Here I try to get my organics in the lawn up and then put on a fungicide and bam...


----------



## Bigdrumnc

So was is plain ol daconil safe for a garden but not a lawn?????? I never have gotten a straight answer, not even from my extension agent!


----------



## g-man

Daconil(Chlorothalonil) was labeled for lawns and gardens. The label was updated to remove home lawns due to cancer concerns(if I recall correctly) with kids playing in the lawns after application. It is still used in agriculture, gardens (eg. tomatoes) and golf courses. You can buy the concentrate at most big box stores for use on garden and shrubs. It is very effective on some fungus.


----------



## kolbasz

Quali-pro Myclobutanil 20EW T&O $$$/# or the ppz 41.8

Which is more cost effective? Go the farthest? Both are similarly priced


----------



## kolbasz

Do the combination products eliminate the need to rotate, such as Armada?


----------



## ryeguy

kolbasz said:


> Do the combination products eliminate the need to rotate, such as Armada?


I haven't found a combo fungicide product that doesn't recommend rotation on the label, including Armada. I'm sure it reduces the need but doesn't eliminate it.


----------



## kolbasz

ryeguy said:


> kolbasz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do the combination products eliminate the need to rotate, such as Armada?
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't found a combo fungicide product that doesn't recommend rotation on the label, including Armada. I'm sure it reduces the need but doesn't eliminate it.
Click to expand...

I guess the question is, if you have an 11/3 combo, do you now need to rotate in a non 11/3 or can you go with a 3 only like ppz, etc?


----------



## g-man

Rotate means to use a different MOA. The 3 is not being rotated in your example.


----------



## kolbasz

g-man said:


> Rotate means to use a different MOA. The 3 is not being rotated in your example.


Ok, perfect, that's what I wanted to confirm. I was thinking that, but wanted to be sure before getting just a 3.


----------



## kolbasz

help me out here. Just want to confirm my numbers.
BP numbers

myclobutanil:
1 gallon, 153$
1.2 oz/M, 106 M total per jug
$1.44/ M

PPZ 41.8:
1 gallon, 133$
.37 - .73 oz/M, 175 M total per jug at .73
$0.76/ M

PPZ 14.3:
1 gallon, 88$
1-2 oz/M, 128 M total per jug at 1oz
$0.68/ M

PPZ 14.3 is cheapest at the low rate, but as soon as I go past 1oz rate or lower the rate on PPZ 41.8 then the 41.8 is best.

Looking for the best bang for the buck product. I had PPZ 14.3 in the past, figure invest in one main and then as my alternate I can go to site one and pick up something granual. Or, if there is a recommended altrnative in the similar price range, I am all for it.


----------



## drenglish

I saw the golf course superintendent gearing up today to spray something so I went over to complement him on the greens and progress so far this spring and to ask what he was about to apply. He said he's putting down Xzemplar (fluxapyroxad) for prevention of dollar spot.

We talked about grasses and weeds for a while. I was sporting a TLF hat (thanks @Ware ) and said he should check the community out when he can. He mentioned that they use the greencast pest outlook site for a lot of the apps on the course which leads me to my question....

Right now we are approaching highs of 70s and lows of 50s in my area for the next 10 days with some rain - when should I consider starting preventative applications? This is my first year stepping my game up to this level and last year I didn't apply any preventative, only treatment and that was in June. Greencast shows no risk for the next 3 days, so not sure what the golf course is basing their application on...I know they've probably been doing things, hopefully correctly, for a lot longer than I've cared to mow my lawn.

I have azoxystrobin liquid and granular, propiconazole granular, and thiophanate-methyl granular to use this year.


----------



## drenglish

Well, I found where the golf course potentially gets their timing from. Greencast recommends preventative apps for dollar spot to start March 25 for Arkansas courses(golf green, and bentgrass). So there's that. But, my lawn's not a bentgrass green.

I'll keep reading some if the papers linked in earlier posts and try not to complicate things too much.


----------



## g-man

My Smith Kerns dollar spot probability is about to hit 20%.


----------



## osuturfman

Early season dollar spot control has been proven to reduce incidence in the summer and fall. Essentially, as innoculum breaks dormancy you're trying to knock down what's there to get ahead of it.

If you're reading papers, check our Dr. Michael Boehm for Ohio State. He did a great deal of work 15 to 20 years ago about dollar spot control, and in particular, early-season control. His work showed using a contact tank mixed with a local penetrant was the best option on DS, early season. Now with label changes, contacts aren't available on residents turf any longer. Propiconazole alone is still a very good option.

Xzemplar and Emerald are excellent products but, very expensive in relative terms. The two most effective control strategies that you control are N inputs and dew removal. If you get those two things right, the need for fungicides on lawn height turf should be next to nothing.


----------



## Shawn E

I have group 3 group 11 and group 1. On day one I will spray group 3&11. 2 weeks later I will spray group 1. Then start over 2 weeks after that?basically spraying 2 groups that are 2 weeks apart from each other and four weeks apart from the last treatment of that group. Does that seem correct?


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Shawn E said:


> I have group 3 group 11 and group 1. On day one I will spray group 3&11. 2 weeks later I will spray group 1. Then start over 2 weeks after that?basically spraying 2 groups that are 2 weeks apart from each other and four weeks apart from the last treatment of that group. Does that seem correct?


Could you list the products you have and what fungus you are having trouble with? Also, do you want a preventive program, curative, or a combo?


----------



## Shawn E

I'm in Iowa zone 5 I believe. I have azoxystrobin and PPZ both in liquid form. I just want to do a preventative program this year. I am going to get something from group 1 so I have 3 MOA. Just trying to get the intervals correct. Is it every 2 weeks I'm doing a treatment? First 2 weeks PPZ and Azoxy? Next 2 weeks group 1? Then repeat in 2 weeks?


----------



## kolbasz

@Suburban Jungle Life 
How do you feel about the combination of ppz 41.8 and tm4.5?

Seems to be a solid price to performance combo, class 1 class 3.

Also, if it says 2-3.5 oz, what is the recommended sweet spot of sorts. One would think with the cost of fungicides you want the lowest, but then you risk disease, no?


----------



## jdc_lawnguy

Shawn E said:


> I'm in Iowa zone 5 I believe. I have azoxystrobin and PPZ both in liquid form. I just want to do a preventative program this year. I am going to get something from group 1 so I have 3 MOA. Just trying to get the intervals correct. Is it every 2 weeks I'm doing a treatment? First 2 weeks PPZ and Azoxy? Next 2 weeks group 1? Then repeat in 2 weeks?


I asked this question last fall. Here is what I am running as a program.

PPZ - 14 Days
TM 4.5 - 14 Days
Azoxy - 28 Days

Rinse repeat


----------



## kolbasz

jdc_lawnguy said:


> Shawn E said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in Iowa zone 5 I believe. I have azoxystrobin and PPZ both in liquid form. I just want to do a preventative program this year. I am going to get something from group 1 so I have 3 MOA. Just trying to get the intervals correct. Is it every 2 weeks I'm doing a treatment? First 2 weeks PPZ and Azoxy? Next 2 weeks group 1? Then repeat in 2 weeks?
> 
> 
> 
> I asked this question last fall. Here is what I am running as a program.
> 
> PPZ - 14 Days
> TM 4.5 - 14 Days
> Azoxy - 28 Days
> 
> Rinse repeat
Click to expand...

Thanks. What rates are you running for preventative

Which ppz are you running


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

kolbasz said:


> @Suburban Jungle Life
> How do you feel about the combination of ppz 41.8 and tm4.5?
> 
> Seems to be a solid price to performance combo, class 1 class 3.
> 
> Also, if it says 2-3.5 oz, what is the recommended sweet spot of sorts. One would think with the cost of fungicides you want the lowest, but then you risk disease, no?


TM is labeled for residential at 1.75floz/M. That is on the low side but combined with propi at a preventive rate, I would consider that a curative as they both control many similar types of fungus.

Running one fugicide at a low rate does increase risk as it won't control every type and some fungus requires higher rates. By mixing 2 moa with similar targeted fungus both at preventive rates, that acts more as a curative. Look at the rates of the combo products in to op. They work well but are running preventive rates of each individual fungicide.


----------



## SpiveyJr

ryeguy said:


> gm560 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you guys found a glitch in the matrix. $19 for me
> 
> 
> 
> I just checked an amazon price tracker and it shows the price dropped for just 24 hours. It's back to the normal price of $19 now, which is what it has been at since January. Guess we missed out
> 
> Still a buck cheaper than my local home depot though.
Click to expand...

It's back to $11!


----------



## Ryan1+2

SpiveyJr said:


> ryeguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gm560 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you guys found a glitch in the matrix. $19 for me
> 
> 
> 
> I just checked an amazon price tracker and it shows the price dropped for just 24 hours. It's back to the normal price of $19 now, which is what it has been at since January. Guess we missed out
> 
> Still a buck cheaper than my local home depot though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's back to $11!
Click to expand...

I guess I missed it....$ 18.99


----------



## lambert

Bigdrumnc said:


> So was is plain ol daconil safe for a garden but not a lawn?????? I never have gotten a straight answer, not even from my extension agent!


Here is an article from 2003 around the time Daconil lost its residential labeling:

http://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/golfd/article/2003mar47.pdf

Keep in mind Daconil is still sprayed all over golf courses and other sports fields and many ornamentals and even vegetables.


----------



## Scagfreedom48z+

Massachusetts is picking up where it left off. RAIN RAIN RAIN! Relentless since the fall 2018. Ive got a few spots in the lawn that seem to have red thread. I'm not sure if this was from over the winter or because of this wet spring we are having.

Anyway, has anyone been in a situation where they want to throw down a fungicide but can't find an ideal time to get it applied because of the forecast? I've got eagle, azoxy, prop, and clearys. All seem to need to become rainfast.

I've also only spoon fed my lawn 2x's with a 12-24-18 starter Fert at 1lb/M

It's crazy, it's April and I'm starting to see fungus already. This pretty darn early for this!


----------



## Bigdrumnc

Thank you lambert


----------



## ryeguy

DiseaseEx is $11 on amazon again. Quick!


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

ryeguy said:


> DiseaseEx is $11 on amazon again. Quick!


Thanks! Just got some!


----------



## Ortho-Doc

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> ryeguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> DiseaseEx is $11 on amazon again. Quick!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! Just got some!
Click to expand...

Dittto. Thank you!


----------



## lambert

ryeguy said:


> DiseaseEx is $11 on amazon again. Quick!


Thanks. Just ordered three bags. I swear that stuff is just rebadged Heritage packaged for Scotts.


----------



## ericgautier

Anyone know if Azoxystrobin, Propiconazole, and/or Thiophanate-methyl can be safely mixed w/ PGR?


----------



## Scagfreedom48z+

lambert said:


> ryeguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> DiseaseEx is $11 on amazon again. Quick!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. Just ordered three bags. I swear that stuff is just rebadged Heritage packaged for Scotts.
Click to expand...

That was a quick sale. Can't find that deal anymore


----------



## lambert

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> lambert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ryeguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> DiseaseEx is $11 on amazon again. Quick!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. Just ordered three bags. I swear that stuff is just rebadged Heritage packaged for Scotts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was a quick sale. Can't find that deal anymore
Click to expand...

I think is was only up for a couple of hours.


----------



## JDgreen18

I was at Site One today. I was talking to them about a fungicide plan. They sell EAGLE 0.39% Granular Turf Fungicide. It was $75
For those of you that would rather use a granular instead of a spray. I plan on using this and Heritage G as my plan if action. I do have liquid eagle 20ew as well. I attached the label if anyone wanted to see.


----------



## Scagfreedom48z+

After an application of fungicides, what's the typical safe and effective wait time to mow after application?


----------



## CenlaLowell

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> After an application of fungicides, what's the typical safe and effective wait time to mow after application?


Most label will either tell you when the product dries or so many hours. This all depends on the product label.


----------



## Scagfreedom48z+

CenlaLowell said:


> Scagfreedom48z+ said:
> 
> 
> 
> After an application of fungicides, what's the typical safe and effective wait time to mow after application?
> 
> 
> 
> Most label will either tell you when the product dries or so many hours. This all depends on the product label.
Click to expand...

I used the rest of my eagle that I had left and finished the rest of the lawn with prop. I didn't see it anywhere on the eagle product label. I sprayed it over 24 hours ago


----------



## CenlaLowell

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scagfreedom48z+ said:
> 
> 
> 
> After an application of fungicides, what's the typical safe and effective wait time to mow after application?
> 
> 
> 
> Most label will either tell you when the product dries or so many hours. This all depends on the product label.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I used the rest of my eagle that I had left and finished the rest of the lawn with prop. I didn't see it anywhere on the eagle product label. I sprayed it over 24 hours ago
Click to expand...

Eagle label


----------



## j4c11

ericgautier said:


> Anyone know if Azoxystrobin, Propiconazole, and/or Thiophanate-methyl can be safely mixed w/ PGR?


I mix both Azoxystrobin and Propiconazole in every batch of PGR. FAS too. Kill 3 birds with one stone. No issues :thumbup:


----------



## GoPre

Both models I utilize for dollar spot just spiked up out of nowhere. Luckily my Serenade will be here Monday!


----------



## cmcgill

Is Serenade effective as a curative or just as a preventative?


----------



## rockinmylawn

I want to apply preventatively to my transition zone TTTF lawn.

When is the best time to start on this?


----------



## GoPre

cmcgill said:


> Is Serenade effective as a curative or just as a preventative?


More preventative, I believe. I'd like to use it this year and do my best to stay away from the others unless I absolutely need it. Keeping the soil microbes and earthworms in mind.


----------



## ryeguy

GoPre said:


> cmcgill said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is Serenade effective as a curative or just as a preventative?
> 
> 
> 
> More preventative, I believe. I'd like to use it this year and do my best to stay away from the others unless I absolutely need it. Keeping the soil microbes and earthworms in mind.
Click to expand...

Is there evidence that synthetic fungicides negatively affect microbes or earthworms?


----------



## Wlodyd

https://extension.psu.edu/earthworms

This articles discusses some research on insecticides and relative toxicity to earthworms. I would say yes, there's proof it's bad for earthworms, and logically that makes sense. To what degree? I dunno.... And how does that impact the overall earthworms population, and respective Impacts to the ecosystem in our lawns?


----------



## GoPre

ryeguy said:


> Is there evidence that synthetic fungicides negatively affect microbes or earthworms?


I've read a few studies, I don't have them on hand. I'm sorry.

I do recall someone on this forum mentioning Azoxystrobin isn't too bad on earthworms.

Edit: I will also add my own personal experience. I did seem to notice a decline in my earthworm activity after applying Scotts fungus control. I'll stress it was an observation, I didn't really note other potential variables.


----------



## ryeguy

GoPre said:


> ryeguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there evidence that synthetic fungicides negatively affect microbes or earthworms?
> 
> 
> 
> I've read a few studies, I don't have them on hand. I'm sorry.
> 
> I do recall someone on this forum mentioning Azoxystrobin isn't too bad on earthworms.
> 
> Edit: I will also add my own personal experience. I did seem to notice a decline in my earthworm activity after applying Scotts fungus control. I'll stress it was an observation, I didn't really note other potential variables.
Click to expand...

I would be a bit more cautious than this. There are so many different AIs in fungicides and so many products that it seems counterproductive to lump them all into some negative microbe and earthworm-killing category. I find it hard to believe that literally all of these have a negative effect. Each of them work differently. Nature doesn't understand synthetic vs not.

It's also unlikely that organic fungicides are a one stop shop. We have carefully engineered synthetic fungicides and still have to rotate 2-3 of them to build an effective preventative program. There's no way that Serenade or organic fungicides sidestep this problem and allow you to just spray one product down as a preventative.


----------



## PDXYZ

I have 5,000 square feet of perennial rye, bluegrass, and chewings fescue in Portland, Oregon. After two years of severe fungus infestation and ineffective efforts to contain it, this spring I got out the big guns, starting a rotation of 3 types of fungicide (based on FRAC groups; two applied so far, the third coming in 10 days).

How long do I have to keep this up? Of course I'll observe application limits and switch out chemicals as needed, but do I keep going all year? Until summer's drier weather sets in and then pick up again in fall? The lawn looks great right now and I'd like to keep it that way, but what's it going to take?


----------



## GoPre

ryeguy said:


> GoPre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ryeguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there evidence that synthetic fungicides negatively affect microbes or earthworms?
> 
> 
> 
> I've read a few studies, I don't have them on hand. I'm sorry.
> 
> I do recall someone on this forum mentioning Azoxystrobin isn't too bad on earthworms.
> 
> Edit: I will also add my own personal experience. I did seem to notice a decline in my earthworm activity after applying Scotts fungus control. I'll stress it was an observation, I didn't really note other potential variables.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would be a bit more cautious than this. There are so many different AIs in fungicides and so many products that it seems counterproductive to lump them all into some negative microbe and earthworm-killing category. I find it hard to believe that literally all of these have a negative effect. Each of them work differently. Nature doesn't understand synthetic vs not.
> 
> It's also unlikely that organic fungicides are a one stop shop. We have carefully engineered synthetic fungicides and still have to rotate 2-3 of them to build an effective preventative program. There's no way that Serenade or organic fungicides sidestep this problem and allow you to just spray one product down as a preventative.
Click to expand...

Understood, which is why I mentioned that some (guess I only mentioned one) AIs aren't as bad, and why I stressed my personal experience was simply an observation. I do recall a few studies that had noted many fungicides toxicity to earthworms. Again I'm real sorry I don't have them on hand.

This route is simply a preference on my part, and I have the synthetic on standby.


----------



## gm560

I have been using Serenade and am interested in a rotational program of bio fungicides with different modes of action. I stumbled on this slide deck:

http://wrir4.ucdavis.edu/events/2017_SLR_Meeting/Presentations/PlantDiseaseManagement/1%20Manker%20D%20IR4%20Bacillus%20Plant%20Disease%20Biopesticides%20April%202017.pdf

The Nova Green Companion looks interesting. Anyone have any experience with this or any of the other products named besides Serenade?


----------



## rockinmylawn

My fungicide roster comprise of:
Cleary 3336 F (1)
Eagle 20 EW (3)
Azoxy 50 WDG (11)

I want to preventatively & proactively deter disease this summer for 1st time doing it myself.

When is the right time to begin applying?


----------



## PokeGrande

@rockinmylawn



Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Sample preventive fungicide program with 4 MOA:
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days (labelled for 21 days but that didn't work for me)
> Thiophanate-methyl 14 days
> Flutolanil 14 days
> 
> 3 MOA:
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days
> Thiophanate-methyl 14 days


Last year (first year for preventative plan), I used the latter 3 MOA. I started once temps got into the 90's and high humidity. Normally mid-June but by mid-May last year temps were in the mid-90s so that is when I started. Looking at my log (~4,500 sq ft):

5/10: bag of Scott's Fungus Control (Thiophanate-methyl)
5/24: propiconazole 14.3 @ 2 oz per M
6/7: propiconazole 14.3 @ 2 oz per M
6/22: bag of Scott's DiseasEx
7/18: bag of Scott's DiseasEx
8/13: bag of Scott's Fungus Control
9/2: propiconazole 14.3 @ 2 oz per M

Seemed to work well for me.


----------



## PokeGrande

I now have a Gregson Clark spreader mate so I'm looking to apply everything foliar/with a sprayer. I've already started applying fertilizer/nitrogen this way (warm season turf). I have not quite 5,000 sq ft of TTTF that I treated so it was easy to just apply one bag of both Scotts Fungus Control and DiseasEx for my Thiophanate-methyl and azoxystrobin applications. For each of those bags applied to 5,000 sq ft, that would be at the preventative rate, correct? And to get the correct comparison to the liquid products, I would use the lower end of the suggested rate?

For instance, Azoxy 2SC Select --> 0.38 - 0.77 fl oz per 1,000 sq ft at application interval of 14-28 days. So is the preventative rate (or comparative rate to DiseasEx) 0.38 oz per M every 14 or 28 days?


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

PokeGrande said:


> I now have a Gregson Clark spreader mate so I'm looking to apply everything foliar/with a sprayer. I've already started applying fertilizer/nitrogen this way (warm season turf). I have not quite 5,000 sq ft of TTTF that I treated so it was easy to just apply one bag of both Scotts Fungus Control and DiseasEx for my Thiophanate-methyl and azoxystrobin applications. For each of those bags applied to 5,000 sq ft, that would be at the preventative rate, correct? And to get the correct comparison to the liquid products, I would use the lower end of the suggested rate?
> 
> For instance, Azoxy 2SC Select --> 0.38 - 0.77 fl oz per 1,000 sq ft at application interval of 14-28 days. So is the preventative rate (or comparative rate to DiseasEx) 0.38 oz per M every 14 or 28 days?


Bag rate for the scotts is preventive rate. 1 bag at 5M for 30 days for diseaseex. Curative rate is 2.5M for 14 days.

Azoxy 2SC Select is the same idea. 0.38 for 30 days is preventive rate. 0.77 for 14 days is curative rate.


----------



## PokeGrande

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> PokeGrande said:
> 
> 
> 
> I now have a Gregson Clark spreader mate so I'm looking to apply everything foliar/with a sprayer. I've already started applying fertilizer/nitrogen this way (warm season turf). I have not quite 5,000 sq ft of TTTF that I treated so it was easy to just apply one bag of both Scotts Fungus Control and DiseasEx for my Thiophanate-methyl and azoxystrobin applications. For each of those bags applied to 5,000 sq ft, that would be at the preventative rate, correct? And to get the correct comparison to the liquid products, I would use the lower end of the suggested rate?
> 
> For instance, Azoxy 2SC Select --> 0.38 - 0.77 fl oz per 1,000 sq ft at application interval of 14-28 days. So is the preventative rate (or comparative rate to DiseasEx) 0.38 oz per M every 14 or 28 days?
> 
> 
> 
> Bag rate for the scotts is preventive rate. 1 bag at 5M for 30 days for diseaseex. Curative rate is 2.5M for 14 days.
> 
> Azoxy 2SC Select is the same idea. 0.38 for 30 days is preventive rate. 0.77 for 14 days is curative rate.
Click to expand...

Thank you! Much appreciated for this confirmation.


----------



## rockinmylawn

PokeGrande said:


> @rockinmylawn
> 
> 
> 
> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sample preventive fungicide program with 4 MOA:
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days (labelled for 21 days but that didn't work for me)
> Thiophanate-methyl 14 days
> Flutolanil 14 days
> 
> 3 MOA:
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days
> Thiophanate-methyl 14 days
> 
> 
> 
> Last year (first year for preventative plan), I used the latter 3 MOA. I started once temps got into the 90's and high humidity. Normally mid-June but by mid-May last year temps were in the mid-90s so that is when I started. Looking at my log (~4,500 sq ft):
> 
> 5/10: bag of Scott's Fungus Control (Thiophanate-methyl)
> 5/24: propiconazole 14.3 @ 2 oz per M
> 6/7: propiconazole 14.3 @ 2 oz per M
> 6/22: bag of Scott's DiseasEx
> 7/18: bag of Scott's DiseasEx
> 8/13: bag of Scott's Fungus Control
> 9/2: propiconazole 14.3 @ 2 oz per M
> 
> Seemed to work well for me.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback @PokeGrande.

You are a little further south than me but it does give me a fair representation of when to start.

How were your results?


----------



## PokeGrande

rockinmylawn said:


> PokeGrande said:
> 
> 
> 
> @rockinmylawn
> 
> 
> 
> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sample preventive fungicide program with 4 MOA:
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days (labelled for 21 days but that didn't work for me)
> Thiophanate-methyl 14 days
> Flutolanil 14 days
> 
> 3 MOA:
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days
> Thiophanate-methyl 14 days
> 
> 
> 
> Last year (first year for preventative plan), I used the latter 3 MOA. I started once temps got into the 90's and high humidity. Normally mid-June but by mid-May last year temps were in the mid-90s so that is when I started. Looking at my log (~4,500 sq ft):
> 
> 5/10: bag of Scott's Fungus Control (Thiophanate-methyl)
> 5/24: propiconazole 14.3 @ 2 oz per M
> 6/7: propiconazole 14.3 @ 2 oz per M
> 6/22: bag of Scott's DiseasEx
> 7/18: bag of Scott's DiseasEx
> 8/13: bag of Scott's Fungus Control
> 9/2: propiconazole 14.3 @ 2 oz per M
> 
> Seemed to work well for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the feedback @PokeGrande.
> 
> You are a little further south than me but it does give me a fair representation of when to start.
> 
> How were your results?
Click to expand...

I think I had very good results as I didn't have any noticeable diseases to my eye. I will be doing same thing this year but plan to spray all my fungicides, not just propiconazole. Temps supposed to be in upper 80s all this week so hopefully I don't have to start this soon.


----------



## PokeGrande

So I can order from Lowe's online and pickup at my local Lowe's 6.75 lb bags (5,000 sq ft coverage) of Scott'e Lawn Fungus Control for $10.18, a 40% discount.

That would be cheaper than the Cleary's 3336 F. Can't find Cleary's 3336 EG, the TM 85 seems to be out of stock and the 4.5 products in the 2.5 gallon containers would take me 6-8 years to use in my rotation. Has anybody used OHP 6672 50 WP before?


----------



## CenlaLowell

PokeGrande said:


> So I can order from Lowe's online and pickup at my local Lowe's 6.75 lb bags (5,000 sq ft coverage) of Scott'e Lawn Fungus Control for $10.18, a 40% discount.
> 
> That would be cheaper than the Cleary's 3336 F. Can't find Cleary's 3336 EG, the TM 85 seems to be out of stock and the 4.5 products in the 2.5 gallon containers would take me 6-8 years to use in my rotation. Has anybody used OHP 6672 50 WP before?


Unless you like using wettable powder, but I have OHP diythpor and that stuff makes a mess. Never again will I buy wettable powders


----------



## PokeGrande

CenlaLowell said:


> PokeGrande said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I can order from Lowe's online and pickup at my local Lowe's 6.75 lb bags (5,000 sq ft coverage) of Scott'e Lawn Fungus Control for $10.18, a 40% discount.
> 
> That would be cheaper than the Cleary's 3336 F. Can't find Cleary's 3336 EG, the TM 85 seems to be out of stock and the 4.5 products in the 2.5 gallon containers would take me 6-8 years to use in my rotation. Has anybody used OHP 6672 50 WP before?
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you like using wettable powder, but I have OHP diythpor and that stuff makes a mess. Never again will I buy wettable powders
Click to expand...

Ok, good to know. Thank you for the info.


----------



## 985arrowhead

PokeGrande said:


> So I can order from Lowe's online and pickup at my local Lowe's 6.75 lb bags (5,000 sq ft coverage) of Scott'e Lawn Fungus Control for $10.18, a 40% discount.
> 
> That would be cheaper than the Cleary's 3336 F. Can't find Cleary's 3336 EG, the TM 85 seems to be out of stock and the 4.5 products in the 2.5 gallon containers would take me 6-8 years to use in my rotation. Has anybody used OHP 6672 50 WP before?


I can t get the Fungus control shipped to my store! Delivery only and they want $100🤯.

I tried to add 2 bags of that and diseasex to my cart and buy/pick up at store and my jaw dropped.

I picked up 2 bags of diseasex today and put down a second app of propiconazole today and will switch to disease x in 2 weeks.

Will try to find 3rd agent for mid June to rotate.
May just order some clearly 3336.


----------



## Ecubed

Thinking of picking up the diseaseex as a preventative in my TTTF. I know it needs to be watered in, but weather is projecting 5-6 inches of rain Saturday into Sunday. Is that too much water or will it still be effective?


----------



## Ge0rdi3brit

I would check the bag to be 100% sure, but that seems like too much water to me. Generally, when products need to be watered in, they mean a half inch to inch of water.


----------



## rockinmylawn

General question: is disease monitoring a year round effort or seasonally?

I have TTTF in the transition zone & yellowish grass blades interspersed in with healthy blades in one big area of my lawn. This makes this area look thinner & less green vs. other areas.

At first I thought it was winter kill & it didn't wake up as fast as other parts of the lawn.
So laid down some fert - had done fall blitz with no final app last year - in April but this area is still yellowish. 
We did have a lot of rain all last year but the remaining areas of the lawn have come back strong.

Rest of lawn looks good, lush & healthy.
Upon inspection it appears it could be any of the spotted or patch disease as I see an odd spot here or there amongst the more prevalent solid yellow blades.


----------



## Drewmey

rockinmylawn said:


> General question: is disease monitoring a year round effort or seasonally?
> 
> I have TTTF in the transition zone & yellowish grass blades interspersed in with healthy blades in one big area of my lawn. This makes this area look thinner & less green vs. other areas.
> 
> At first I thought it was winter kill & it didn't wake up as fast as other parts of the lawn.
> So laid down some fert - had done fall blitz with no final app last year - in April but this area is still yellowish.
> We did have a lot of rain all last year but the remaining areas of the lawn have come back strong.
> 
> Rest of lawn looks good, lush & healthy.
> Upon inspection it appears it could be any of the spotted or patch disease as I see an odd spot here or there amongst the more prevalent solid yellow blades.


I think I am just on the other side of the mountain from you. Over in the Shenandoah Valley, all I have to do is watch for fungus from later spring to the end of summer. I have never had any fall fungus issues or even early spring. You may be in a hair warmer climate than me that could possibly push it from mid-spring to late summer. It seems to be the combination of heat and moisture that really makes it bad for me. I especially have trouble in shaded areas because they stay damp even as it gets warmer.


----------



## BC7269

Great thread. Just put mine down today. Put down group 3 Propiconizole and also group 11 Azoxystrobin. May follow up with another app of Azoxystrobin in 30 days.


----------



## minifarmer

What do you all recommend for Take All Root Rot and grey leaf in a St Augustine Lawn? I've been rotating disease ex and the Bayer ppz each month since march here in Houston (it's always humid here).


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

minifarmer said:


> What do you all recommend for Take All Root Rot and grey leaf in a St Augustine Lawn? I've been rotating disease ex and the Bayer ppz each month since march here in Houston (it's always humid here).


I would add in one more MOA. Probably thiophanate-methyl or maybe even zerotol 2.0.


----------



## kolbasz

ericgautier said:


> Anyone know if Azoxystrobin, Propiconazole, and/or Thiophanate-methyl can be safely mixed w/ PGR?


I mixed PGR with PPZ 41.8 the other day and things seem OK.


----------



## g-man

kolbasz said:


> ericgautier said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know if Azoxystrobin, Propiconazole, and/or Thiophanate-methyl can be safely mixed w/ PGR?
> 
> 
> 
> I mixed PGR with PPZ 41.8 the other day and things seem OK.
Click to expand...

DMI fungicides have a growth regulator effect to them. Mixing them with PGR can cause problems. Pete1313, HLG and others have reported the I'll effects. One of the recent TurfNet podcast discussed this from Oregon. They did test plots with different DMIs so supers can see the effect. Chlorothalonil was one with better performance.


----------



## Pete1313

I think the turfnet podcast said that Propiconazole was better then some of the other DMIs, but I had the grass turn alittle ugly and seemed over regulated mixing Propiconazole with trinexapac-ethyl.


----------



## g-man

Yes you are right. Banner.


----------



## Jconnelly6b

Off topic but @Drewmey what part of SVA are you from? I grew up in Harrisonburg, and am actually heading down this evening to spend the holiday with my family.


----------



## Drewmey

Jconnelly6b said:


> Off topic but @Drewmey what part of SVA are you from? I grew up in Harrisonburg, and am actually heading down this evening to spend the holiday with my family.


I'm in Harrisonburg. Grew up there and now live there again. Not a huge lawn because I live really close to downtown.


----------



## kolbasz

Pete1313 said:


> I think the turfnet podcast said that Propiconazole was better then some of the other DMIs, but I had the grass turn alittle ugly and seemed over regulated mixing Propiconazole with trinexapac-ethyl.


So it messed up the grass? By over regulated you mean it exaggerated the pgr affects?


----------



## Pete1313

kolbasz said:


> So it messed up the grass? By over regulated you mean it exaggerated the pgr affects?


It thinned it alittle, color was off and sickly looking, and I didn't need to mow for a while. It recovered fine, but not the way you want the grass to perform whether or not you are applying the fungicide because of an issue. I really wanted the combo to work, and @HoosierLawnGnome mentioned to me once about maybe watering the app in. I haven't tried that yet. The second time I even went low at .125oz/M of T-nex mixed with 1oz/M of Propiconazole 14.3 in a 1gal/M spray volume.


----------



## kolbasz

Pete1313 said:


> kolbasz said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it messed up the grass? By over regulated you mean it exaggerated the pgr affects?
> 
> 
> 
> It thinned it alittle, color was off and sickly looking, and I didn't need to mow for a while. It recovered fine, but not the way you want the grass to perform whether or not you are applying the fungicide because of an issue. I really wanted the combo to work, and @HoosierLawnGnome mentioned to me once about maybe watering the app in. I haven't tried that yet. The second time I even went low at .125oz/M of T-nex mixed with 1oz/M of Propiconazole 14.3 in a 1gal/M spray volume.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, hogy this makes things tough. I tank spray 13k so it is 1.5 hours, I put as much as I can at once since time doesn't yield multiple applications.

Good thing I caught yesterday's disease ex sale. At least the granular I can throw down pretty easy.


----------



## Pete1313

kolbasz said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kolbasz said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it messed up the grass? By over regulated you mean it exaggerated the pgr affects?
> 
> 
> 
> It thinned it alittle, color was off and sickly looking, and I didn't need to mow for a while. It recovered fine, but not the way you want the grass to perform whether or not you are applying the fungicide because of an issue. I really wanted the combo to work, and HoosierLawnGnome mentioned to me once about maybe watering the app in. I haven't tried that yet. The second time I even went low at .125oz/M of T-nex mixed with 1oz/M of Propiconazole 14.3 in a 1gal/M spray volume.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hmmm, hogy this makes things tough. I tank spray 13k so it is 1.5 hours, I put as much as I can at once since time doesn't yield multiple applications.
> 
> Good thing I caught yesterday's disease ex sale. At least the granular I can throw down pretty easy.
Click to expand...




kolbasz said:


> I mixed PGR with PPZ 41.8 the other day and things seem OK.


@kolbasz, you mentioned mixing the two the other day. Maybe a week ago? How is the lawn responding? It might be too early to tell, but am curious as I would like the combo to work. I see you used the 41.8 instead of the 14.3. If it has a good response, please share any other differences you might have done regarding rate, tank mix order, if you added anything else to the tank, or if you irrigated afterwards.


----------



## HoosierLawnGnome

Pete1313 said:


> kolbasz said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it messed up the grass? By over regulated you mean it exaggerated the pgr affects?
> 
> 
> 
> It thinned it alittle, color was off and sickly looking, and I didn't need to mow for a while. It recovered fine, but not the way you want the grass to perform whether or not you are applying the fungicide because of an issue. I really wanted the combo to work, and @HoosierLawnGnome mentioned to me once about maybe watering the app in. I haven't tried that yet. The second time I even went low at .125oz/M of T-nex mixed with 1oz/M of Propiconazole 14.3 in a 1gal/M spray volume.
Click to expand...

Off the top of my head, I can't remember if I've applied Podium + Propiconazole together or not - I'd have to dig through my records - that would definitely be an exception of experiment as I often like to wash Propiconazole off the foliage after a while down the plant into the root zone, and I like to leave Podium on the foliage as long as possible. I have definitely applied them within days of each other before, but separately.


----------



## Pete1313

@HoosierLawnGnome, you talked about putting them in the same tank two different times last year with me in this thread over at ATY.
https://aroundtheyard.com/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24464#p328160


----------



## HoosierLawnGnome

Ah, thanks. I really need to start logging stuff separately.

Last year I was throwing lots of stuff at it simultaneously given time and could often only cut weekly.

I didn't get fungus or turf thinning and browning but my turf color suffered. I chalk it up to less frequent mowing, low cuts, and using Proxy with Podium.

It took a month of regular mowing this year for it to lose the yellow tones.

I stopped using Proxy this year halfway through the spring and went to just Podium and color improved, so that's different as well.

This year I've done 1 pint of Propacanazole with FAS combos.

I've also done 1 pint triclopyr + podium + proxy + FAS.

Ive also done 1 pint triclopyr + podium + fas.

So hard to compare apples to apples with last years drastically different maintenance


----------



## jdc_lawnguy

Hi All, general question.

I put down Azoxy 2SC in late April. Earlier this week i put down TM 4.5, but then noticed some Melting out which TM is not labeled for. I hit it with PPZ 14.3 and Azozy 2 SC at a curative rate.

My question is what should I put down for my next App.


----------



## jhov415

Has anyone tried this?

http://www.cdms.net/ldat/ld99N000.pdf


----------



## g-man

@jhov415 FYI, this is a agriculture product, not meant for turf. The % are lower than other turf products.


----------



## jhov415

g-man said:


> @jhov415 FYI, this is a agriculture product, not meant for turf. The % are lower than other turf products.


Thank you


----------



## rockinmylawn

Put down Cleary 3336 F on my 6.5K sqft lawn.
Came in a 36 Oz bottle.

@ 2 -4 fl oz per 1,000 sq ft bottle is almost over 1/2 empty now.

Can see this being pricey every 2 weeks.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

rockinmylawn said:


> Put down Cleary 3336 F on my 6.5K sqft lawn.
> Came in a 36 Oz bottle.
> 
> @ 2 -4 fl oz per 1,000 sq ft bottle is almost over 1/2 empty now.
> 
> Can see this being pricey every 2 weeks.


Best is to buy in bulk and shop around. Quick example below. The guide uses the lowest quantity available which is also the most expensive. Gonna take some research to save $$ but if you compare the samples below, for 4 apps a year, you could easily save $52.27.

domyown.com Clearys 36 oz 41.25%ai 2oz(labelled max for residential)=$2.94 or $19.11 per app

domyown.com Clearys 2.5gal 41.25%ai 2oz(labelled max for residential)=$1.58 or $10.28 per app

domyown.com Qualipro TM oz 46.2%ai 1.75oz(labelled max for residential)=$0.93 or $6.04 per app


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

jdc_lawnguy said:


> Hi All, general question.
> 
> I put down Azoxy 2SC in late April. Earlier this week i put down TM 4.5, but then noticed some Melting out which TM is not labeled for. I hit it with PPZ 14.3 and Azozy 2 SC at a curative rate.
> 
> My question is what should I put down for my next App.


Are you aiming for a preventive program or curative as needed?

Curative, see what it looks like in 2 weeks. It needs to be growing and routine mowing to see it get better. Check the new growth. I would hit with prop and azoxy again if needed after that time. If growth looks good, probably just let it go.

Preventive, see new growth and if cured, probably continue with prop only, then switch to TM twice and then azoxy then prop again. That's the next 4 months...


----------



## jdc_lawnguy

Thanks @Suburban Jungle Life

I am going preventative, so will hit with Prop at 14 days. Then restart the rotation with TM.


----------



## Green

Any ideas how to get roughly the correct rate of fungicide down on patch reseeds with a handheld spreader? I guess just guess...? Or is it better to use a sprayable/foliar fungicide, like liquid Propiconazole for this (as prevention) since it's easier to spot spray than spot apply a granular?


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Green said:


> Any ideas how to get roughly the correct rate of fungicide down on patch reseeds with a handheld spreader? I guess just guess...? Or is it better to use a sprayable/foliar fungicide, like liquid Propiconazole for this (as prevention) since it's easier to spot spray than spot apply a granular?


You could measure the average size patch and weigh the granular. See if you need a tablespoon amount or whatever it is and then estimate with your hand. Then grab some and try to sprinkle evenly. Not perfect but close enough.

Scotts azoxy is 10 lb for 5M. So, 10x16/5000=0.032oz=0.9g. So, 1 g per 1 sq ft. 3 sq ft patch, 3g. Weigh it and pour it in your palm. Remember that amount. Bigger patch, use more. Curative, grab and spread twice on one patch. Close enough...


----------



## Green

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any ideas how to get roughly the correct rate of fungicide down on patch reseeds with a handheld spreader? I guess just guess...? Or is it better to use a sprayable/foliar fungicide, like liquid Propiconazole for this (as prevention) since it's easier to spot spray than spot apply a granular?
> 
> 
> 
> You could measure the average size patch and weigh the granular. See if you need a tablespoon amount or whatever it is and then estimate with your hand. Then grab some and try to sprinkle evenly. Not perfect but close enough.
> 
> Scotts azoxy is 10 lb for 5M. So, 10x16/5000=0.032oz=0.9g. So, 1 g per 1 sq ft. 3 sq ft patch, 3g. Weigh it and pour it in your palm. Remember that amount. Bigger patch, use more. Curative, grab and spread twice on one patch. Close enough...
Click to expand...

That's another possible method. Thank you.


----------



## jjepeto

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> 3 MOA:
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days
> Thiophanate-methyl 14 days


I have a question about this that may have been answered but this thread is incredibly long to read all the posts.

Do you use each of these in series or parallel? Two examples...

Example 1:
Day 0 - azoxy (wait 28 days)
Day 28 - Propiconazole (wait 14 days)
Day 42 - TM (wait 14 days)
Day 56 - azoxy(wait 28 days)
etc.

Example 2:
Day 0 - azoxy (28 days), prop, TM (14 days)
Day 14 - prop, TM
Day 28 - azoxy, prop, TM
Day 42 - prop, TM
Day 56 - azoxy, prop, TM
etc.

Basically, since each product has a different MOA and covers different fungi, are they independent of one another (all on their own timelines) or once one wears off you apply the next?


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

jjepeto said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3 MOA:
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days
> Thiophanate-methyl 14 days
> 
> 
> 
> I have a question about this that may have been answered but this thread is incredibly long to read all the posts.
> 
> Do you use each of these in series or parallel? Two examples...
> 
> Example 1:
> Day 0 - azoxy (wait 28 days)
> Day 28 - Propiconazole (wait 14 days)
> Day 42 - TM (wait 14 days)
> Day 56 - azoxy(wait 28 days)
> etc.
> 
> Example 2:
> Day 0 - azoxy (28 days), prop, TM (14 days)
> Day 14 - prop, TM
> Day 28 - azoxy, prop, TM
> Day 42 - prop, TM
> Day 56 - azoxy, prop, TM
> etc.
> 
> Basically, since each product has a different MOA and covers different fungi, are they independent of one another (all on their own timelines) or once one wears off you apply the next?
Click to expand...

Are you using a preventive program all season or curative as needed?


----------



## jjepeto

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Are you using a preventive program all season or curative as needed?


The question was more of a preventative program question for the long term future, but I am currently doing curative.


----------



## Drewmey

jjepeto said:


> I have a question about this that may have been answered but this thread is incredibly long to read all the posts.
> 
> Do you use each of these in series or parallel? Two examples...
> 
> Example 1:
> Day 0 - azoxy (wait 28 days)
> Day 28 - Propiconazole (wait 14 days)
> Day 42 - TM (wait 14 days)
> Day 56 - azoxy(wait 28 days)
> etc.
> 
> Example 2:
> Day 0 - azoxy (28 days), prop, TM (14 days)
> Day 14 - prop, TM
> Day 28 - azoxy, prop, TM
> Day 42 - prop, TM
> Day 56 - azoxy, prop, TM
> etc.
> 
> Basically, since each product has a different MOA and covers different fungi, are they independent of one another (all on their own timelines) or once one wears off you apply the next?


I am doing preventative but have this same question. I am hoping that it is Example 1


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

jjepeto said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you using a preventive program all season or curative as needed?
> 
> 
> 
> The question was more of a preventative program question for the long term future, but I am currently doing curative.
Click to expand...

Example 1.

Pros, lower cost, multiple moa to rotate, longer term plan possible.

Cons, higher chance of an outbreak, probably won't fix an existing problem, bigger chance of a resistant fungus.

Example 2.

Pros, good chance of fixing all fungus problems.

Cons, used 3 moa so nothing to rotate after that, high cost.

I would use one at a time so you can rotate moa. It's not a perfect solution unfortunately. Yes, while on TM, you may get a fungus it doesn't control but hopefully while rotating moa, it won't be bad before the next product gets down. Also, there is soil residual of all these products so I would run each probably two times before switching to another moa. Many labels also say to lay off a moa if you used it a lot for up to two years to reduce the chance of resistant strains. Some spray propi only for years on end because it always worked for them. Well, one day that isn't going to work anymore.


----------



## Belgianbillie

I feel a bit downtrodden about the cost of all this. I have 32k to protect and it just seems inhibitly expensive.

1 treatment of azoxy would be 180 bucks. One treatment of Prop 14.3 quite a bit less, maybe 20 bucks. Do that 2 times a year and you are at 500 buckaroos.


----------



## jjepeto

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> jjepeto said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you using a preventive program all season or curative as needed?
> 
> 
> 
> The question was more of a preventative program question for the long term future, but I am currently doing curative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Example 1.
> 
> Pros, lower cost, multiple moa to rotate, longer term plan possible.
> 
> Cons, higher chance of an outbreak, probably won't fix an existing problem, bigger chance of a resistant fungus.
> 
> Example 2.
> 
> Pros, good chance of fixing all fungus problems.
> 
> Cons, used 3 moa so nothing to rotate after that, high cost.
> 
> I would use one at a time so you can rotate moa. It's not a perfect solution unfortunately. Yes, while on TM, you may get a fungus it doesn't control but hopefully while rotating moa, it won't be bad before the next product gets down. Also, there is soil residual of all these products so I would run each probably two times before switching to another moa. Many labels also say to lay off a moa if you used it a lot for up to two years to reduce the chance of resistant strains. Some spray propi only for years on end because it always worked for them. Well, one day that isn't going to work anymore.
Click to expand...

Great response, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for taking the time to explain.


----------



## Drewmey

Belgianbillie said:


> I feel a bit downtrodden about the cost of all this. I have 32k to protect and it just seems inhibitively expensive.
> 
> 1 treatment of azoxy would be 180 bucks. One treatment of Prop 14.3 quite a bit less, maybe 20 bucks. Do that 2 times a year and you are at 500 buckaroos.


Azoxy would be waaay cheaper if you are accepting of using Abound Flowable Fungicide. It *is not* labeled for lawn use but does incidentally have the same active ingredient amount as Azoxy 2SC Select. So theoretically following that label would work similarly to Azoxy 2SC Select. Whether this is right or wrong, ethical, etc. is not something I will comment on. You should do the research and decide for yourself.

If you ever do something like this, make sure you follow the most stringent PPE, application maxes, etc. for *both* labels. In this case, Azoxy 2SC Select is labeled for Residential Lawns, so the risk is not whether the _active ingredient_ is safe/should be used on a lawn. However, with other products, for example, Chlorothalonil, there is *no product* with this ingredient that is labeled for Residential Lawn use. Therefore, using that product on a lawn presents entirely different risks and legal/ethical issues in my opinion. You need to understand *why* these products are or are not listed for residential use. For Chlorothalonil, it is potentially unsafe for children (or at least perceived, I haven't done heavy research). In the case of Abound/Azoxy 2SC Select, it is more the case of labeling, insurance, remaining inactive ingredients, etc. Using either on your lawn might not be legal, but in my opinion, one is definitely a more flagrant offense than the other.

If ok with that approach, 32,000sf would cost more like $20 for preventative (rounded math: 32k sf x .4oz/ksf = 12.8 oz. / 128oz/gal x $200/gallon = $20) and $40 for curative (pretty much double the volume).


----------



## Drewmey

Belgianbillie said:


> I feel a bit downtrodden about the cost of all this. I have 32k to protect and it just seems inhibitly expensive.
> 
> 1 treatment of azoxy would be 180 bucks. One treatment of Prop 14.3 quite a bit less, maybe 20 bucks. Do that 2 times a year and you are at 500 buckaroos.


Also, Scott's DiseaseEx is $17-$19 (when not on sale). It covers 5ksf at the preventative rate, therefore (7) bags covers your 32k sf and would cost $119 - $133 (plus your tax). But shouldn't be $180.


----------



## Belgianbillie

How long after putting down fungicides is it safe for kids to come back on the lawn


----------



## Drewmey

Belgianbillie said:


> How long after putting down fungicides is it safe for kids to come back on the lawn


I would make sure to follow the label. I imagine it could be different depending on the ingredient and/or the application method (liquid vs. granular). I personally would not let my kids get on the lawn after applying a granular fungicide until it had been both watered in and dried. With liquid, at least until it is dried or the time listed on the label (most stringent). If the label for that active ingredient has something to make me uneasy, personally I wouldn't use it at all.


----------



## kolbasz

Pete1313 said:


> kolbasz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It thinned it alittle, color was off and sickly looking, and I didn't need to mow for a while. It recovered fine, but not the way you want the grass to perform whether or not you are applying the fungicide because of an issue. I really wanted the combo to work, and HoosierLawnGnome mentioned to me once about maybe watering the app in. I haven't tried that yet. The second time I even went low at .125oz/M of T-nex mixed with 1oz/M of Propiconazole 14.3 in a 1gal/M spray volume.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, hogy this makes things tough. I tank spray 13k so it is 1.5 hours, I put as much as I can at once since time doesn't yield multiple applications.
> 
> Good thing I caught yesterday's disease ex sale. At least the granular I can throw down pretty easy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kolbasz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I mixed PGR with PPZ 41.8 the other day and things seem OK.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @kolbasz, you mentioned mixing the two the other day. Maybe a week ago? How is the lawn responding? It might be too early to tell, but am curious as I would like the combo to work. I see you used the 41.8 instead of the 14.3. If it has a good response, please share any other differences you might have done regarding rate, tank mix order, if you added anything else to the tank, or if you irrigated afterwards.
Click to expand...

I mixed the 41.8, pgr, and tenacity. I'm backpacking 13k so at 1.5 hours I m not splitting it up. Overall the grass handled the mix fine. Growth slowed, poa bleached, however, the red thread was not phased
Picked up some disease ex on sale and plan to throw it down this weekend, along with another app of pgr and tenacity. Also adding an app of lesco weed n feed before the heat comes. After that, I need to get some insect control down at the end of the month I believe.

At the end of the day, things seemed OK and it is starting to get growing again as the pgr wears off


----------



## N LA Hacker

Is this brown patch or rust or something else?


----------



## g-man

@N LA Hacker that's a warm season grass, right? I'm not sure how much the cool season members can help.


----------



## N LA Hacker

@g-man Didn't realize it until after I posted it. I'll delete it. Well crap, I can't. You're more than welcome to.


----------



## Belgianbillie

does one mix 14.3 prop with surfactent?


----------



## kolbasz

Belgianbillie said:


> does one mix 14.3 prop with surfactent?


I Did...


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

kolbasz said:


> Belgianbillie said:
> 
> 
> 
> does one mix 14.3 prop with surfactent?
> 
> 
> 
> I Did...
Click to expand...

Hey. Me too.


----------



## JDgreen18

I have been on a preventative fungicide plan this year. So far I used 2 apps of Heratage g with an Eagle 20ew in between. Anyway I have a little something going on but I'm not sure it's disease as I can see any lesions. The top portion of some of the blades are going yellow with some dying. 
This is only affecting my kbg and not the tttf side of my lawn.
My first thought was it was leaf spot but I'm not so sure..


----------



## Belgianbillie

I sprayed prop 14.3 at 2 oz/1000 to treat for brown patch. It seems azoxy is the better choice. Can i put that on within a week or should i wait 14 days?


----------



## tgreen

JDgreen18 said:


> I have been on a preventative fungicide plan this year. So far I used 2 apps of Heratage g with an Eagle 20ew in between. Anyway I have a little something going on but I'm not sure it's disease as I can see any lesions. The top portion of some of the blades are going yellow with some dying.
> This is only affecting my kbg and not the tttf side of my lawn.
> My first thought was it was leaf spot but I'm not so sure..


I think this is iron chlorosis. Just saw this on another guy's post here

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10730


----------



## tgreen

Belgianbillie said:


> I sprayed prop 14.3 at 2 oz/1000 to treat for brown patch. It seems azoxy is the better choice. Can i put that on within a week or should i wait 14 days?


yes, you can apply them at same time or now. There is a product called Headway that combines them both. If you're treating for brown patch, I think you can skip the propy and just go with azoxystrobin/ scott's diseasex. No harm though if you feel like applying the propy too.


----------



## Apapknarf

Would something like Captan 4L be a good candidate to use for melting out / leaf spot?


----------



## Scagfreedom48z+

I applied the 3 punch knock out yesterday afternoon of strobe, prop and clearys I have a few different break outs happening in my lawn such as brown patch, leaf spot and red thread. All the rain and humidity is taking a toll for sure.

My only concern is that it rained today. We had rain on and off all day. I'm concerned that I just wasted my time and money because the render may have rendered my app ineffective. What do you guys think?


----------



## Mrotatori

does anybody have any thoughts what this might be? it's from a fall kbg reno.


----------



## Lilbabykenny

Can someone help me out here? Is this melting out? Leaf spot? Brown patch? I recently brought my hoc down to 2" from 3", as I wanted to experiment at the hoc this season, I was probably 6 cuts in at that hoc and had the expected browning/yellowing, which now has subsequently turned into this. T-nex was applied at .75oz per 1k, for the first time after the second cut about 2.5 weeks ago. I thought some of this might have been caused from too high of a rate for the first go around. Bio advanced liquid was applied as well as diseas ex 4 days ago. Really don't know where to go from here, as I don't know what I'm dealing with, should I return to the 3" hoc?
This is mostly kbg and prg as far as I know.
Located in the Chicagoland area where cool temps and tons of rain were pervasive.


----------



## Drewmey

Does anyone know if you can track mix FAS with Azoxy 2SC? Any compatability that issues.


----------



## Scagfreedom48z+

Hi Guys. I'm reposting this. Should I wait and see if the application was effective? We are finally out of the woods with the rain for the next 5 days or so. So I have a window to reapply if needed.

I applied the 3 punch knock out yesterday afternoon of strobe, prop and clearys I have a few different break outs happening in my lawn such as brown patch, leaf spot and red thread. All the rain and humidity is taking a toll for sure.

My only concern is that it rained today. We had rain on and off all day. I'm concerned that I just wasted my time and money because the render may have rendered my app ineffective. What do you guys think?


----------



## g-man

@Scagfreedom48z+ I don't think you should. Check the labels for rain fast, but I think you are ok.

Is the problem getting worst?


----------



## Scagfreedom48z+

g-man said:


> @Scagfreedom48z+ I don't think you should. Check the labels for rain fast, but I think you are ok.
> 
> Is the problem getting worst?


I haven't noticed any worsening. We got hit with a good amount of rain Thursday and Friday. The weekend has been dry and warm. I mowed yesterday and the lawn seems to look pretty good. Not new outbreaks or worsening of pre existing fungus.


----------



## jrubb42

So I found myself with leaf spot and melting out a couple weeks ago and treated it with Azoxy and bought some Propiconazole for another MOA. My question is even with hot weather on the way finally (high 80s to mid 90s), should I still be applying fungicides all the way through summer? Should I wait until closer to the end of summer to continue?

Should my maintenance change at all? (fertilizer, humic acid, etc.)


----------



## 440mag

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> rockinmylawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Put down Cleary 3336 F on my 6.5K sqft lawn.
> Came in a 36 Oz bottle.
> 
> @ 2 -4 fl oz per 1,000 sq ft bottle is almost over 1/2 empty now.
> 
> Can see this being pricey every 2 weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> Best is to buy in bulk and shop around. Quick example below. The guide uses the lowest quantity available which is also the most expensive. Gonna take some research to save $$ but if you compare the samples below, for 4 apps a year, you could easily save $52.27.
> 
> domyown.com Clearys 36 oz 41.25%ai 2oz(labelled max for residential)=$2.94 or $19.11 per app
> 
> domyown.com Clearys 2.5gal 41.25%ai 2oz(labelled max for residential)=$1.58 or $10.28 per app
> 
> domyown.com Qualipro TM oz 46.2%ai 1.75oz(labelled max for residential)=$0.93 or $6.04 per app
Click to expand...

That last option (here: https://www.domyown.com/tm-45-fungicide-p-16591.html ) is the way I'm going, when I reorder chemicals next Jan/Feb.

I am having a last cup o' joe before I go out and spray Clearys 3336 on 15k+ sf, for first time. I should've read the label and app. rate more closely when ordering as, even through I am applying at preventative rate, I may just make it this year with this lone 36oz bottle. :-( (I am rotating between 2 back-to-back apps each of: 1) Eagle (myclobu...), 2) Azoxy and 3) the thiophanate; 2 back-to-back apps of thiophanate should get me through July, the Eagle in August and the Azoxy in Sept. but, I'll likely have to use Eagle again in October (I've found Late summer and early Fall to be THE WORST times in my locale for the various "patch" fungal outbreaks.

Anyway, I had to make sure the wife was sitting down (and right after she commented how nice the yard looked!) to "brace" her for the $170 outlay next year but, SJL's breakdown helped ( :thumbup: ) and she understands now why I move the big, bulk containers of chemicals out of the garage and down into the unfinished basement before freezing weather arrives (I keep a fan going in the garage all summer and I don't think it ever exceeds 85^F in there (chems are kept in a metal chem storage cabinet in an always shaded corner of the garage)

Sure wish I'd researched a little more last Jan/Feb and gone with the TM 4.5 instead of the Clearys though. Oh well, they say "a lesson bought is worth two lessons learned"! :thumbup:

Edit 4 hours later: well, I musta been dreamin' cuz, no way that 32oz bottle of Clearys is gonna last through an entire 2nd app which I need it for :roll: And boy, does that stuff FOAM up a lot when agitated; I was only able to get a total of 3 gallons in a 4-gallon sprayer! It's gonna torpedo the boat/jet ski gas budget for 1/2 of one of these summer months but, I don't see my being able to hold out until next season before ordering that 2.5 gals of QualiPro TM 4.5 ...

I do have some Armada on hand (Grps 3 / 11) so, I wonder if there's any harm in just alternating between 2 back-to-back app.s each of: 1) Eagle (myclobu...), 2) Azoxy and 3) Armada , for the remainder of this season?


----------



## 440mag

jrubb42 said:


> So I found myself with leaf spot and melting out a couple weeks ago and treated it with Azoxy and bought some Propiconazole for another MOA. My question is even with hot weather on the way finally (high 80s to mid 90s), should I still be applying fungicides all the way through summer? Should I wait until closer to the end of summer to continue?
> 
> Should my maintenance change at all? (fertilizer, humic acid, etc.)


I apply fungicides at preventative rates all summer long - just make sure you read (and re-read!) the labels, particularly for any notes regarding "phyto-toxicity," etc. (Also, I apply as soon after daybreak as I possibly can (start in the dark if I have to). Either that or right after sundown and before dark.


----------



## Belgianbillie

I have brownpatch or leaf spot. I applied the curative rate of prop 14.3. It looks a bit better but is not gone. Should i do a curative rate of azoxy or could i get away with another curative rate of prop 14.3 or a regular rate of azoxy. Its 1 acre so that much azoxy is expensive vs. prop 14.3


----------



## 440mag

Belgianbillie said:


> I have brownpatch or leaf spot. I applied the curative rate of prop 14.3. It looks a bit better but is not gone. Should i do a curative rate of azoxy or could i get away with another curative rate of prop 14.3 or a regular rate of azoxy. Its 1 acre so that much azoxy is expensive vs. prop 14.3


My understanding is that two (2) sequential applications of the same FRAC / MOA is not contraindicated - all other Label guidance being followed of course. OTOH, I don't think there is any harm in applying Azoxy (say, if you were out of prop 14.3) but, if you have disease present, I'm not sure why I would not use the curative rate (?)

Edit: I spent one summer in Wisconsin and it was glorious - hope the weather for y'all right now is as wonderful as I remember it being then! :thumbup:


----------



## jrubb42

440mag said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I found myself with leaf spot and melting out a couple weeks ago and treated it with Azoxy and bought some Propiconazole for another MOA. My question is even with hot weather on the way finally (high 80s to mid 90s), should I still be applying fungicides all the way through summer? Should I wait until closer to the end of summer to continue?
> 
> Should my maintenance change at all? (fertilizer, humic acid, etc.)
> 
> 
> 
> I apply fungicides at preventative rates all summer long - just make sure you read (and re-read!) the labels, particularly for any notes regarding "phyto-toxicity," etc. (Also, I apply as soon after daybreak as I possibly can (start in the dark if I have to). Either that or right after sundown and before dark.
Click to expand...

Thank you! This is the only advice I have gotten on this subject and I've asked a few different times. Appreciate the feedback!


----------



## Ecubed

So I have some sort of fungus in patches, and I have a few questions about what to do. Monday I applied diseaseEx (azoxystrobin) at curative rate. With the high temps, do I quit watering all together until the disease is gone(if possible)?

I have been mowing at 4 inches since mid May and have always mulched my clippings. I wonder if maybe the thick tall grass and all the clippings has created a fungus habitat. Should I bag during the summer? And should I bag while the disease is present?

This is something new to me, and would appreciate any tips or dos and do nots.


----------



## tgreen

Ecubed said:


> So I have some sort of fungus in patches, and I have a few questions about what to do. Monday I applied diseaseEx (azoxystrobin) at curative rate. With the high temps, do I quit watering all together until the disease is gone(if possible)?
> 
> I have been mowing at 4 inches since mid May and have always mulched my clippings. I wonder if maybe the thick tall grass and all the clippings has created a fungus habitat. Should I bag during the summer? And should I bag while the disease is present?
> 
> This is something new to me, and would appreciate any tips or dos and do nots.


You have tall fescue in the transition zone and it's July so you likely have brown patch like everyone else. Good move on the azoxystrobin which should slow down any disease progression. You should continue to water as normal (deep and infrequent). If it hasn't rained since you ran the azoxystrobin then go ahead and water it in now. I bag but a lot of people don't. I haven't seen any academic studies on brown patch bag vs no-bag but I don't think bag vs no-bag is that critical of a point. Ideally, if you can bag then do it. If that's a big deal (like your municipality doesn't take the clippings) then don't bag and don't lose sleep over it.


----------



## StarRaider

I would not bag since azoxy is a systemic and any available fungicide in the clippings would get used by the grass. The disease lives in the soil anyways so bagging is not getting rid of any appreciable fungal "mass".


----------



## Ecubed

tgreen said:


> Ecubed said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I have some sort of fungus in patches, and I have a few questions about what to do. Monday I applied diseaseEx (azoxystrobin) at curative rate. With the high temps, do I quit watering all together until the disease is gone(if possible)?
> 
> I have been mowing at 4 inches since mid May and have always mulched my clippings. I wonder if maybe the thick tall grass and all the clippings has created a fungus habitat. Should I bag during the summer? And should I bag while the disease is present?
> 
> This is something new to me, and would appreciate any tips or dos and do nots.
> 
> 
> 
> You have tall fescue in the transition zone and it's July so you likely have brown patch like everyone else. Good move on the azoxystrobin which should slow down any disease progression. You should continue to water as normal (deep and infrequent). If it hasn't rained since you ran the azoxystrobin then go ahead and water it in now. I bag but a lot of people don't. I haven't seen any academic studies on brown patch bag vs no-bag but I don't think bag vs no-bag is that critical of a point. Ideally, if you can bag then do it. If that's a big deal (like your municipality doesn't take the clippings) then don't bag and don't lose sleep over it.
Click to expand...

I watered the azoxy in this morning, but it has been super hot and humid. I am able to bag and have someone take my lawn clippings so I may do that for a bit. Such a disappointment for what was a pretty darn good lawn for my 2nd overseed. I love this forum and appreciate everyone sharing their experiences. I've learned so much since joining.


----------



## Ecubed

Just remembered the other questions... should i apply that bayer propiconazole product? if so, when? and when or should I reapply the diseaseex?


----------



## 985arrowhead

Ecubed said:


> Just remembered the other questions... should i apply that bayer propiconazole product? if so, when? and when or should I reapply the diseaseex?


2 weeks on the diseasex if you are still seeing disease. I probably would put down again at the prevent rate anyway and you can apply prop now as it is a different MOA.


----------



## Ecubed

985arrowhead said:


> Ecubed said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just remembered the other questions... should i apply that bayer propiconazole product? if so, when? and when or should I reapply the diseaseex?
> 
> 
> 
> 2 weeks on the diseasex if you are still seeing disease. I probably would put down again at the prevent rate anyway and you can apply prop now as it is a different MOA.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the info, does it do more harm than good if i do curative rate on it again when maybe preventative would be adequate?


----------



## 985arrowhead

No but as others in this thread have mentioned is not to use the same MOA for more than 2-3 applications before switching to another MOA.

This year I am using a group 1, 3 & 11 fungicide in my program and alternating them monthly.


----------



## Reaper

Not sure if this question is appropriate to post here, but is it wise to use a fungicide (Scotts DiseaseEx) on a lawn that will have a 1 year-old running/crawling around? Should I use one of the organic fungicides?

I guess the same question could be asked for any chemicals applied to a lawn...


----------



## 985arrowhead

Mowed and did a little yard clean up Incase this weather changes.


----------



## Alpine

Are there any temperature restrictions for propiconazole? Temps in my area are going to be 90+ all week. 
Per the label _"In Florida, do not apply Quali-Pro Propiconazole 14.3 to bermudagrass golf course greens when temperatures exceed 90°F"_.... Does that mean KBG, PRG and others are OK?


----------



## 985arrowhead

985arrowhead said:


> Mowed and did a little yard clean up Incase this weather changes.


Wrong thread


----------



## Ecubed

Alright it's been 4 days since application of azoxy. Not seeing much improvement. I am going to put out some propiconazole tonight after I mow or should I apply in the morning? Should I cut a bit lower than the usual 4 inches?

And also what about fertilizer? I have not put out any nitrogen since beginning of May, I have read some things that say to never put nitrogen down when you have disease but, I Have read some things that say it's good to put down nitrogen to "grow the disease out"? Any thoughts on which is better?


----------



## g-man

@Ecubed 4 days since you water it in? Is it getting worst? It won't heal in 4 days. Granular is even slower.


----------



## Ecubed

g-man said:


> @Ecubed 4 days since you water it in? Is it getting worst? It won't heal in 4 days. Granular is even slower.


Yes it's granular, and yes 4 days since watering it. And doesn't seem to be getting worse. Guess it's a wait and see approach. What about the nitrogen app? Yay or nay?


----------



## g-man

Since you been without N since May, then do no more than 0.25lb N/ksqft.


----------



## Drewmey

Alpine said:


> Are there any temperature restrictions for propiconazole? Temps in my area are going to be 90+ all week.
> Per the label _"In Florida, do not apply Quali-Pro Propiconazole 14.3 to bermudagrass golf course greens when temperatures exceed 90°F"_.... Does that mean KBG, PRG and others are OK?


I don't really have an answer for you, but just wanted to note that the "In Florida" part implies that it may be a _legality_ issue more than a _harm the grass_ issue in my opinion. Because it can get just as hot, humid, etc. in Texas, Alabama, Southern California, etc.

I don't know the laws in Florida, but you would technically be following the label if you applied when greater than 90 if you didn't have bermuda grass.


----------



## Alpine

Drewmey said:


> Alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are there any temperature restrictions for propiconazole? Temps in my area are going to be 90+ all week.
> Per the label _"In Florida, do not apply Quali-Pro Propiconazole 14.3 to bermudagrass golf course greens when temperatures exceed 90°F"_.... Does that mean KBG, PRG and others are OK?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really have an answer for you, but just wanted to note that the "In Florida" part implies that it may be a _legality_ issue more than a _harm the grass_ issue in my opinion. Because it can get just as hot, humid, etc. in Texas, Alabama, Southern California, etc.
> 
> I don't know the laws in Florida, but you would technically be following the label if you applied when greater than 90 if you didn't have bermuda grass.
Click to expand...

Thanks @Drewmey - I realized it might be state regulatory related after I posted. I plan to do a preventative 1 oz. app early in the morning when it's still a bit cool.


----------



## Ecubed

g-man said:


> Since you been without N since May, then do no more than 0.25lb N/ksqft.


Okay thank you g man


----------



## rockinmylawn

Does it matter if I have tallish -not hyper growth- grass & apply fungicide?
Trying not to mow in this hot weather & grass still < 4" range.


----------



## Ecubed

When you apply curative rates of fungicide will the grass ever return to it's former glory or is the fungicide more of a "stop the bleeding" kind of curative?

I have noticed my fungus is no longer spreading but the spots the disease hit are not looking any better.

When I apply my next round of fungicide, should I use a curative rate or preventative?


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Ecubed said:


> When you apply curative rates of fungicide will the grass ever return to it's former glory or is the fungicide more of a "stop the bleeding" kind of curative?
> 
> I have noticed my fungus is no longer spreading but the spots the disease hit are not looking any better.
> 
> When I apply my next round of fungicide, should I use a curative rate or preventative?


The parts of the grass blades that have turned brown and died from the fungus are dead. The application of the fungicide will not restore life to the dead portions of the grass blades.

However, the application of the fungicide will stop the spread of the disease -- you won't have more newly-dead grass.

However, in order for the dead grass blades to no longer be apparent in the lawn, you need to wait long enough for those blades to resume growing from the crown at the base of the blade (presuming that the crown survived), and for the dead portions of the blades to "grow out." Depending upon the rate of the growth of your grass and your height of cut, that could take anywhere from a few days (with a very low height-of-cut and fast growing blades) to as long as 3-4 weeks (for a taller height-of-cut or a period of slower growth.)


----------



## Ecubed

ken-n-nancy said:


> Ecubed said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you apply curative rates of fungicide will the grass ever return to it's former glory or is the fungicide more of a "stop the bleeding" kind of curative?
> 
> I have noticed my fungus is no longer spreading but the spots the disease hit are not looking any better.
> 
> When I apply my next round of fungicide, should I use a curative rate or preventative?
> 
> 
> 
> The parts of the grass blades that have turned brown and died from the fungus are dead. The application of the fungicide will not restore life to the dead portions of the grass blades.
> 
> However, the application of the fungicide will stop the spread of the disease -- you won't have more newly-dead grass.
> 
> However, in order for the dead grass blades to no longer be apparent in the lawn, you need to wait long enough for those blades to resume growing from the crown at the base of the blade (presuming that the crown survived), and for the dead portions of the blades to "grow out." Depending upon the rate of the growth of your grass and your height of cut, that could take anywhere from a few days (with a very low height-of-cut and fast growing blades) to as long as 3-4 weeks (for a taller height-of-cut or a period of slower growth.)
Click to expand...

Thank you for the info, I'm way up at 4" so looks like it will be a long wait for me


----------



## canyoncove

*DISREGARD!!! 
*
So I used Eagle 20ew twice to get rid of some dollar spot and brown patch, and it really did the trick.

I want to now KEEP it from coming back.. being that Eagle looks like it's in the FRAC Group 3, any suggestions on what I should use next? Something from Group 1? I wouldn't mind using a granular this time, as it was a little tedious putting down the Eagle from a spray tank over 6K sqft.

Any suggestions would help.. this is fungus season here in GA.. Hot & Humid!!!

GREAT THREAD btw!!


----------



## g-man

@canyoncove be careful with the recommendations of this thread. It is a cool season one and Bermuda might not like all of the fungicides.


----------



## canyoncove

g-man said:


> @canyoncove be careful with the recommendations of this thread. It is a cool season one and Bermuda might not like all of the fungicides.


Crap!! Thank you.. I didn't realize it..


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

canyoncove said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> @canyoncove be careful with the recommendations of this thread. It is a cool season one and Bermuda might not like all of the fungicides.
> 
> 
> 
> Crap!! Thank you.. I didn't realize it..
Click to expand...

The OP is still a good reference for what's available. Just read the label carefully for any restrictions on bermuda. I did list warm season fungus like large patch and others.


----------



## gmorf33

Hey all - newbie here. I've been reading through this guide, watching youtube videos, etc. I'm a single income provider, so i have to be fairly frugal in my lawn care obsession and want to make sure i'm getting the best bang for my buck on things.

I am looking at a combination of fungicides for my fescue lawn, and after watching some of the big youtubers talk about mixing 2 products (azoxy + prop) at preventative rates together, you remove most of the need to rotate because using 2 MOA's simultaneously reduces the risk of resistance to basically nill. I see the combo that guys like TheGrassFactor like is 1/2 curative rate of both products + a humic/fulvic acid + optional micros and put it all down together for as long as necessary.

I've already ordered a bottle of PPZ noted in the Guide, I've been going back and forth between the 2nd product. Azoxy or the TM4.5. It seems like both do similar things.. my main concerns are brown patch and possibly dollar spot, but it looks like axoxy doesn't controll DS, which might tip me towards TM4.5

From my calculations..
- Azoxy SC comes out to about $2.9 per 1000sqft at the .38oz rate.
- TM4.5 comes out to about $0.93 per 1000sqft at the 1.75 oz rate.

So price wise, TM4.5 looks like the winner, and control wise TM4.5 looks like the winner.

My question is, what am i overlooking? Can TM4.5 be mixed with PPZ + humic acid in a solid cocktail like TGF and CGIPete talk about, or is there something with TM4.5 i need to be aware/concerned about in using in this manner?


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Added a new FRAC group! Not that anyone would buy it...


----------



## ThomasPI

Outstanding guide thanks !


----------



## Methodical

Anyone have any experience with Armada 50 wdg fungicide? This fungicide has two modes of action (3 and 11)and is in powder form. I've seen a few reviewers say it was hard to mix or keep mixed as the product would not stay suspended. I wanted to get some feedback from you'll though.

I'm planning for next season round of fungus and was thinking using Armada (2 action mode) with Clearys 3336F (Mode 1) for a reasonably price fungus program. Also, on the table is using Scotts DiseaseEX in the program.

Thoughts.

Thanks...


----------



## Matix99def

If possible, could someone please suggest a preventative schedule or rotation for eagle 20 and Clearys 3336f. Issue is i accidentally ordered 64 oz of cleary and didn't realize on eagle it's only 16oz. Can I go 2 apps of clearly 2oz/k one app of eagle 1oz/k each app at 14 day intervals And repeat??


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Matix99def said:


> If possible, could someone please suggest a preventative schedule or rotation for eagle 20 and Clearys 3336f. Issue is i accidentally ordered 64 oz of cleary and didn't realize on eagle it's only 16oz. Can I go 2 apps of clearly 2oz/k one app of eagle 1oz/k each app at 14 day intervals And repeat??


I would use each for 2 apps and repeat once so you have 8 apps total. Then consider a third MOA to throw in there. Maybe azoxy.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Methodical said:


> Anyone have any experience with Armada 50 wdg fungicide? This fungicide has two modes of action (3 and 11)and is in powder form. I've seen a few reviewers say it was hard to mix or keep mixed as the product would not stay suspended. I wanted to get some feedback from you'll though.
> 
> I'm planning for next season round of fungus and was thinking using Armada (2 action mode) with Clearys 3336F (Mode 1) for a reasonably price fungus program. Also, on the table is using Scotts DiseaseEX in the program.
> 
> Thoughts.
> 
> Thanks...


Sorry. Looks like no one responded. Wdg should stand for water dissolvable granule. Maybe try hot water if it's a problem but it should dissolve. I haven't personally used Armada.


----------



## The Anti-Rebel

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Methodical said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have any experience with Armada 50 wdg fungicide? This fungicide has two modes of action (3 and 11)and is in powder form. I've seen a few reviewers say it was hard to mix or keep mixed as the product would not stay suspended. I wanted to get some feedback from you'll though.
> 
> I'm planning for next season round of fungus and was thinking using Armada (2 action mode) with Clearys 3336F (Mode 1) for a reasonably price fungus program. Also, on the table is using Scotts DiseaseEX in the program.
> 
> Thoughts.
> 
> Thanks...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry. Looks like no one responded. Wdg should stand for water dissolvable granule. Maybe try hot water if it's a problem but it should dissolve. I haven't personally used Armada.
Click to expand...

Well technically WDG stands for water dispersible granule. But that's just nit-picking.


----------



## Matix99def

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Matix99def said:
> 
> 
> 
> If possible, could someone please suggest a preventative schedule or rotation for eagle 20 and Clearys 3336f. Issue is i accidentally ordered 64 oz of cleary and didn't realize on eagle it's only 16oz. Can I go 2 apps of clearly 2oz/k one app of eagle 1oz/k each app at 14 day intervals And repeat??
> 
> 
> 
> I would use each for 2 apps and repeat once so you have 8 apps total. Then consider a third MOA to throw in there. Maybe azoxy.
Click to expand...

@Suburban Jungle Life sorry, I just had a baby and my brain is fried hah. I dont understand your schedule. Are you saying just do 2 cleary, 2 eagle, 2 clearly and 2 eagle? I don't want to get azoxy. It was hard enough getting what I have into Canada. Which is why I want to get schedule to get the most out of what I have


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

The Anti-Rebel said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Methodical said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have any experience with Armada 50 wdg fungicide? This fungicide has two modes of action (3 and 11)and is in powder form. I've seen a few reviewers say it was hard to mix or keep mixed as the product would not stay suspended. I wanted to get some feedback from you'll though.
> 
> I'm planning for next season round of fungus and was thinking using Armada (2 action mode) with Clearys 3336F (Mode 1) for a reasonably price fungus program. Also, on the table is using Scotts DiseaseEX in the program.
> 
> Thoughts.
> 
> Thanks...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry. Looks like no one responded. Wdg should stand for water dissolvable granule. Maybe try hot water if it's a problem but it should dissolve. I haven't personally used Armada.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well technically WDG stands for water dispersible granule. But that's just nit-picking.
Click to expand...

 :thumbup:


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Matix99def said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matix99def said:
> 
> 
> 
> If possible, could someone please suggest a preventative schedule or rotation for eagle 20 and Clearys 3336f. Issue is i accidentally ordered 64 oz of cleary and didn't realize on eagle it's only 16oz. Can I go 2 apps of clearly 2oz/k one app of eagle 1oz/k each app at 14 day intervals And repeat??
> 
> 
> 
> I would use each for 2 apps and repeat once so you have 8 apps total. Then consider a third MOA to throw in there. Maybe azoxy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @Suburban Jungle Life sorry, I just had a baby and my brain is fried hah. I dont understand your schedule. Are you saying just do 2 cleary, 2 eagle, 2 clearly and 2 eagle? I don't want to get azoxy. It was hard enough getting what I have into Canada. Which is why I want to get schedule to get the most out of what I have
Click to expand...

You got it.


----------



## Matix99def

Hmm, that will make my eagle20 run out fast and I'm stuck with just clearys. Hoping to get a bit more apps than that before having to reorder the eagle20.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Matix99def said:


> Hmm, that will make my eagle20 run out fast and I'm stuck with just clearys. Hoping to get a bit more apps than that before having to reorder the eagle20.


How many months do you need to cover?


----------



## Matix99def

5.5 ideally. But I may do 1.5 months in spring and 1.5 months in early fall. And leave the July August apps. So 3 apps each. 2 cleary and an eagle in the middle??


----------



## g-man

@Matix99def I don't think you can have that much fungus pressure in your area. I live in a warmer area and I don't need to do that much fungicide. What fungus do you normally have issues with ?


----------



## Matix99def

Honestly, this is only year two so I don't know. It was brand new sod last year. I had some leaf spot? towards the end but not too bad. More of a preventative measure right now. And frankly, I'm just assuming that may/June and Sept/oct are my pressure months


----------



## Methodical

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Methodical said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have any experience with Armada 50 wdg fungicide? This fungicide has two modes of action (3 and 11)and is in powder form. I've seen a few reviewers say it was hard to mix or keep mixed as the product would not stay suspended. I wanted to get some feedback from you'll though.
> 
> I'm planning for next season round of fungus and was thinking using Armada (2 action mode) with Clearys 3336F (Mode 1) for a reasonably price fungus program. Also, on the table is using Scotts DiseaseEX in the program.
> 
> Thoughts.
> 
> Thanks...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry. Looks like no one responded. Wdg should stand for water dissolvable granule. Maybe try hot water if it's a problem but it should dissolve. I haven't personally used Armada.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. I will probably go with it and see how it goes.


----------



## spud

:thumbup: Just ordered 1 Gal. Abound 22.9 azoxy, from Chemical Warehouse.

$195.00 and free shipping!


----------



## Babameca

@g-man . After lasts year reno I am obviously afraid not to lose everything. You commented a Canadian about the pressure duration. How would you lay down a preventive schedule for Northern folks like us. I was struggling to find a detailed map or tracker to show fungicide pressure (except of one type of fungus). From what I read, there almost always some kind of fungus pressure. I may be completely wrong. Can you elaborate on this. Knowing the products what they treat and how to rotate them is one thing, when to use them is a Pandora box for me.


----------



## g-man

The list of fungus and products is too long. The rutger article on fungus/products have a ton of info. You can use this to track so issues (extrapolate to Canada). http://www.greencastonline.com/tools/pestoutlooks.aspx

The only fungus I do a prevention is dollar spot because I had plenty of issues with it. I use a model to time the prevention. For the rest I just walk the yard and treat immediately. I also prevent condition that promote fungus (over fertilize, over water).


----------



## cldrunner

spud said:


> :thumbup: Just ordered 1 Gal. Abound 22.9 azoxy, from Chemical Warehouse.
> 
> $195.00 and free shipping!


This is such a great deal. I did the same about two weeks ago and used my first 16 oz. They had fast shipping and great price.


----------



## Methodical

Matix99def said:


> Honestly, this is only year two so I don't know. It was brand new sod last year. I had some leaf spot? towards the end but not too bad. More of a preventative measure right now. And frankly, I'm just assuming that may/June and Sept/oct are my pressure months


@Matix99def are your using the preventative rates or are you using a heavier dosage?


----------



## bernstem

@Matix99def @Babameca I agree with @g-man that I would be surprised if there is enough disease pressure in Cancda to need a 2 week interval for prevention. You may not even need any fungicide, honestly. I personally would keep what you have on hand for treatment in case you have a breakout and save prevention for known recurrent issues. That means that you would not do any prevention now and likely go for 1-2 years without a preventive regimen.

If you have a known recurrent fungal issue or live down in the lower midwest near the transition zone, then it is a different story. What you would use for prevention will depend on what you have to deal with.

That being said, here is my take on fungal prevention in Bluegrass. TTTF is different.

Common diseases that may need fungicide treatment for KBG are summer patch and dollar spot. Rust and Powdery Mildew can often be treated without chemicals, but can get bad enough that chemical treament can be considered.

Dollar spot is more of an issue in hot climates as it prunes roots in the spring and the grass then can't take up enough water when it gets hot. It is best treated by preventive fungicide applications in the spring. The Strobilurins (e.g. Azoxystrobin) are your go-to for treatment. Applied at the high rate they will give you 4 weeks of coverage. You want to water it in as it needs to get to the root zone to treat summer patch (a root disease) and is an upwardly mobile systemic. That means that it will go from roots to shoots, but not from shoots to roots.

Summer Patch is more of an issue in the summer heat. Again, in Canda, you may not have much issue with Summer Patch. It is a leaf disease and is best treated with systemic fungicides or contact fungicides applied to the leaves. The DMI fungicides (e.g. Propiconazole) are good options for management. Preventive applications are typically started later in the growing season (on home turf) than for Summer Patch. Almost all of the DMI fungicides are also growth regulators and will slow growth. Be careful applying at the same time as growth inhibitors.

There are other fungicide options for treatment of these and other diseases, but the DMIs and Strobilurins are easy to use and readily available. Thoiophenate-Methyl is probably the next most common fungicide for lawns now that Daconil is prohibited for home lawn use. It is a non-systemic so if you are treating root diseases you water it in, but for leaf diseases you leave it to dry on the lawn.

A decent rotation for prevention would be Azoxystrobin, followed by Propiconazole+Axoxy, then Propiconazole alone. That is three months of coverage, but if you have very high summer patch pressure or a long growing season, you may want to use something in the third application to cover Summer Patch as well. Options are Thiophenate-Methyl or Penthiopyrad.

To sum up, that is a lot of chemicals and expensive. Though you may have some damage from lack of prevention before it gets treated, I would wait to see what you are dealing with before starting on chemicals. You should also look very closely at your overall cultural practices as they will significantly influence how much disease you have to deal with. The last thing to consider are products like Serenade that use bacteria or beneficial fungi to prevent diseases.


----------



## Babameca

@bernstem Very educative. Thanks!


----------



## Ohio Lawn

bernstem said:


> @Matix99def @Babameca I agree with @g-man that I would be surprised if there is enough disease pressure in Cancda to need a 2 week interval for prevention. You may not even need any fungicide, honestly. I personally would keep what you have on hand for treatment in case you have a breakout and save prevention for known recurrent issues. That means that you would not do any prevention now and likely go for 1-2 years without a preventive regimen.
> 
> If you have a known recurrent fungal issue or live down in the lower midwest near the transition zone, then it is a different story. What you would use for prevention will depend on what you have to deal with.
> 
> That being said, here is my take on fungal prevention in Bluegrass. TTTF is different.
> 
> Common diseases that may need fungicide treatment for KBG are summer patch and dollar spot. Rust and Powdery Mildew can often be treated without chemicals, but can get bad enough that chemical treament can be considered.
> 
> Dollar spot is more of an issue in hot climates as it prunes roots in the spring and the grass then can't take up enough water when it gets hot. It is best treated by preventive fungicide applications in the spring. The Strobilurins (e.g. Azoxystrobin) are your go-to for treatment. Applied at the high rate they will give you 4 weeks of coverage. You want to water it in as it needs to get to the root zone to treat summer patch (a root disease) and is an upwardly mobile systemic. That means that it will go from roots to shoots, but not from shoots to roots.
> 
> Summer Patch is more of an issue in the summer heat. Again, in Canda, you may not have much issue with Summer Patch. It is a leaf disease and is best treated with systemic fungicides or contact fungicides applied to the leaves. The DMI fungicides (e.g. Propiconazole) are good options for management. Preventive applications are typically started later in the growing season (on home turf) than for Summer Patch. Almost all of the DMI fungicides are also growth regulators and will slow growth. Be careful applying at the same time as growth inhibitors.
> 
> There are other fungicide options for treatment of these and other diseases, but the DMIs and Strobilurins are easy to use and readily available. Thoiophenate-Methyl is probably the next most common fungicide for lawns now that Daconil is prohibited for home lawn use. It is a non-systemic so if you are treating root diseases you water it in, but for leaf diseases you leave it to dry on the lawn.
> 
> A decent rotation for prevention would be Azoxystrobin, followed by Propiconazole+Axoxy, then Propiconazole alone. That is three months of coverage, but if you have very high summer patch pressure or a long growing season, you may want to use something in the third application to cover Summer Patch as well. Options are Thiophenate-Methyl or Penthiopyrad.
> 
> To sum up, that is a lot of chemicals and expensive. Though you may have some damage from lack of prevention before it gets treated, I would wait to see what you are dealing with before starting on chemicals. You should also look very closely at your overall cultural practices as they will significantly influence how much disease you have to deal with. The last thing to consider are products like Serenade that use bacteria or beneficial fungi to prevent diseases.


Great post. Would you be interested in giving your opinion on TTTF? I have a new lawn (planted last August). Deciding if I do preventative fungicide or wait to see if I have fungus issues. (My Lawn is SS1000 and had good NTEP numbers)


----------



## bernstem

Ohio Lawn said:


> Great post. Would you be interested in giving your opinion on TTTF? I have a new lawn (planted last August). Deciding if I do preventative fungicide or wait to see if I have fungus issues. (My Lawn is SS1000 and had good NTEP numbers)


I don't have any real experience with TTTF and diseases. Generally speaking, the overall philosophy would be the same. Try not to use chemicals unless you know you have or know you are going to have a problem. The specific diseases, however, are different with some overlap, and why a northern mix lawn can be advantagous over monostand or single species blend. My impression is that TTTF has fewer disease issues than KBG, but that is quite a generalization and doesn't necesarrily hold true for all lawns. I would defer to the TTTF experts for specific management.

It is also very helpful to diagnose the specific disease as that may change cultural management. Diagnosis, though, is like some of the grassy weed ID threads - very hard to do.


----------



## Methodical

Ohio Lawn said:


> bernstem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> Great post. Would you be interested in giving your opinion on TTTF? I have a new lawn (planted last August). Deciding if I do preventative fungicide or wait to see if I have fungus issues. (My Lawn is SS1000 and had good NTEP numbers)
> 
> 
> 
> @Ohio Lawn
> 
> From my experience with TTTF, the fungus I've had to deal with is brown patch. If the conditions are right, it will strike really fast...one day nothing, the next brown patches. My practice is to start the preventive rate when the conditions are right/present for brown patch...high temps, high humidity and lots of rain, especially late evening or night rain where the grass stays wet. I rotate the modes of action between modes 1 (Cleary 3336F), 3 (Myclobutanil)and 11 (Azoxy-Scotts granular). If you do get a fungus always bag the clippings to prevent spreading the disease.
> 
> Here's some reading for you.
> 
> https://www.domyown.com/brown-patch-treatment-guide-a-555.html
> 
> https://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheet/brown-patch-large-patch-diseases-of-lawns/
Click to expand...


----------



## Jeremy3292

Can anyone help explain to me a good preventative fungicide routine for bermuda? Application times (spring and fall?) and how often?


----------



## Ohio Lawn

gmorf33 said:


> Hey all - newbie here. I've been reading through this guide, watching youtube videos, etc. I'm a single income provider, so i have to be fairly frugal in my lawn care obsession and want to make sure i'm getting the best bang for my buck on things.
> 
> I am looking at a combination of fungicides for my fescue lawn, and after watching some of the big youtubers talk about mixing 2 products (azoxy + prop) at preventative rates together, you remove most of the need to rotate because using 2 MOA's simultaneously reduces the risk of resistance to basically nill. I see the combo that guys like TheGrassFactor like is 1/2 curative rate of both products + a humic/fulvic acid + optional micros and put it all down together for as long as necessary.
> 
> I've already ordered a bottle of PPZ noted in the Guide, I've been going back and forth between the 2nd product. Azoxy or the TM4.5. It seems like both do similar things.. my main concerns are brown patch and possibly dollar spot, but it looks like axoxy doesn't controll DS, which might tip me towards TM4.5
> 
> From my calculations..
> - Azoxy SC comes out to about $2.9 per 1000sqft at the .38oz rate.
> - TM4.5 comes out to about $0.93 per 1000sqft at the 1.75 oz rate.
> 
> So price wise, TM4.5 looks like the winner, and control wise TM4.5 looks like the winner.
> 
> My question is, what am i overlooking? Can TM4.5 be mixed with PPZ + humic acid in a solid cocktail like TGF and CGIPete talk about, or is there something with TM4.5 i need to be aware/concerned about in using in this manner?


Does anyone have thoughts on this? I thought the same thing.


----------



## badtlc

I tried searching but haven't found anything on what to do AFTER application of fungicide.

I have put down 2 granular applications (17 days apart) of fluoxystrobin and watered it in the following morning each time. It has been hot and dry here. I would assume for systemic fungicide to work, the grass has to be actively growing, correct?

I am having a hard time telling if the fungus is not dying off or if the grass is getting brown from the hot dry weather. Is there any point to fertilizing after fungicide application to help make sure the grass is growing? I'm afraid to put any fertilizer down for it will also feed the fungus.


----------



## bernstem

@badtlc Grass does not need to be actively growing for systemics to work as long as the roots take it up it will get carried to anything green, though if it is dormant it won't get carried into dormant tissue. If your current fungicide is not working, it either isn't a fungus or you have misdiagnosed the disease and the fungicide used is not effective against what you actually have.


----------



## badtlc

bernstem said:


> @badtlc Grass does not need to be actively growing for systemics to work as long as the roots take it up it will get carried to anything green, though if it is dormant it won't get carried into dormant tissue. If your current fungicide is not working, it either isn't a fungus or you have misdiagnosed the disease and the fungicide used is not effective against what you actually have.


I definitely had a fungus. It looked kinda like leaf spot (yellow/orange with black dots within the yellowish areas). It hit my younger grass from last fall overseeding the hardest. All the thin bladed, young fescue just got obliterated.

My grass just isn't growing much right now so I was concerned there isn't enough green blades to really do work against the fungus.

I guess I'll just keep watering and let it be.


----------



## Bermuda_Triangle

Do liquid fungicides degrade over time?


----------



## jellysgreen

if i spray MOA 3 & 11, does this control grubs? I'm in NJ. Newbie on the quest for the perfect lawn


----------



## g-man

@jellysgreen no. Fungicides do not control grubs. In the Pest folder there is a thread around grubs control (prevention and cure).


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 You are 're-learning; your lawn with the low cut now. Fungus pressure will be higher and most visible (which good for ID but bad for appearance). I would suggest you to closely monitor for outbreaks and have azoxy and propi on hand (to start with). A journal with the symptoms, time of the year and weather conditions at this point, will make you customize your approach and eventual apps more efficient. This is probably the most challenging part of turf management, the deseases. You can follow syngenta or Bayer calendar (for your region) for fungicides, break the bank and be desease free, or you can go the 'hard' way and apply only when and what is needed and save for a Corvette lol.


----------



## KoopHawk

Are all Azoxystrobin 22.9% products created equal? Or does the product have to be specific to turf grasses?


----------



## g-man

The ingredients should be in the label along with the approved plants to use. Check both active and inactive ingredients.


----------



## Stellar P

I think my tank (4G) will become oversaturated with trying to spray curitive rates of Azoxy, Clearys and Prop in one mixture. Just a combination of my last experience spraying and an assumption.

Tank mix 1: Azoxy & Prop & Surfactant
Tank mix 2: Clearys & Surfactant

Both tank mixes will be right after one another. Will first app affect how well the 2nd app can adhere to the blade? Foliar application.


----------



## g-man

@Stellar P why are you doing 3 fungicides at the same time? Did you tested to see if they are compatible?


----------



## Stellar P

g-man said:


> @Stellar P why are you doing 3 fungicides at the same time? Did you tested to see if they are compatible?


I meant to do a 14 day rotation for each mix.
Day 0: mix 1
Day 7: mix 2
Day 14: mix 1
Day 21: mix 2
... and so on with this pattern until disease pressure reduces to move to a preventative rate/interval.

Problem is, I missed my day 7 app. To keep each fungicide on its minimum day rotation at the curitive rate, I want to spray both tank mixes on day 14 and resume the pattern.

Tank mixing order : 
*
Prime Source Azoxy 50 WGD Select*(*Azoxystrobin 50 WP*, other WG or dry flowable formulations, wettable powders and flowable (aqueous suspensions)

*Clearys 3336F* (water soluble bags, wettable powders, dry flowables, *liquid flowables*, emulsifiable concentrates, soluble materials.

*Quali Pro Propiconazole 14.3* (wettable powders, dry flowables, liquid flowables, *emulsifiable concentrates*.

I didnt see anything on their labels that would highlight their non-compatabiliy.

Azoxystrobin Label - Spray Solution Preparation @ bottom of page 4 & top of page 5

Clearys Label - Tank Mixing Instructions @ middle of page 3

Propiconazole Label - Tank Mixing Instructions @ bottom of page 3 & top of page 4

After reviewing this text again, I think I should have done a compatibility test. The Azoxy and Propiconazole was really thick at the beginning of the spray. I had to take the nozzle off and spray some out, and then it started to spray with an appropriate flow.


----------



## bernstem

Cleary's especially likes to settle in the tank. I pre-mix it to help prevent that. If you don't mix it well, you will get a highly concentrated spray at the beginning. In my experience, the others can do it as well, but aren't as bad.


----------



## Di3soft

Going to pick up some propi for fall seeding, if needed when do I apply it on baby grass?


----------



## KoopHawk

Di3soft said:


> Going to pick up some propi for fall seeding, if needed when do I apply it on baby grass?


I believe on the label it says it can be applied once the grass hits the 2-3 leaf stage which is very early. Looking back at my notes, I applied propi on day 35 after germination. It has a growth regulator effect too. It took a good 2 weeks after application at the 2oz rate before I started to notice the topgrowth start to take off. Talk about an extended pout phase.


----------



## Di3soft

KoopHawk said:


> I believe on the label it says it can be applied once the grass hits the 2-3 leaf stage which is very early. Looking back at my notes, I applied propi on day 35 after germination. It has a growth regulator effect too. It took a good 2 weeks after application at the 2oz rate before I started to notice the topgrowth start to take off. Talk about an extended pout phase.


awesome, thank you


----------



## rockinmylawn

Is there any guidance on temperature range for Azoxy (22.9%) application?

Thinking about laying down some this afternoon even though it will be usually hottest in my area @ 4-5pm.


----------



## KoopHawk

@rockinmylawn I typically wait until just before sunset when it starts to cool off to do my spraying. The winds tend to die down too so there is less drift. Then I water in my fungicide/N cocktails before the next morning.

Question for the board: As far as watering in fungicides, reading the label of prop, it recommends 1 ga carrier for foliar spray and 2-3 gallons for crown/root diseases. Does watering in the fungicide after around a 4 hour foliar uptake period achieve the same thing as increased carrier amounts to get the fungicide to the soil?


----------



## rockinmylawn

KoopHawk said:


> @rockinmylawn I typically wait until just before sunset when it starts to cool off to do my spraying. The winds tend to die down too so there is less drift. Then I water in my fungicide/N cocktails before the next morning.


@KoopHawk Do you overthink it like I do on the watering in of fungicide that late in the day?

Thanks for the fedback!


----------



## EricsLawnscapes

Just ordered 1 gallon of Abound (azoxystrobin) from Keystone pest Solutions. Cost per k sq ft is about $1.20 but it's $200 for the gallon. I have about 16k sq ft to treat, though. Cheapest I have found anywhere. FYI. (Not affiliated with the retailer, just the only place I could find the product in 1 gallon size). Domyown has 2.5 gallon jug.


----------



## TampaBayFL

@EricsLawnscapes ..... I have been using Scotts disease EX for azoxystrobin at $13/bag and each bag is good for roughly 4k sq ft. this comes out to $3.25 per 1000 ft.², and I thought I was getting off cheap! I like your $1.20 per 1000 ft.² a lot better😁


----------



## KoopHawk

EricsLawnscapes said:


> Just ordered 1 gallon of Abound (azoxystrobin) from Keystone pest Solutions. Cost per k sq ft is about $1.20 but it's $200 for the gallon. I have about 16k sq ft to treat, though. Cheapest I have found anywhere. FYI. (Not affiliated with the retailer, just the only place I could find the product in 1 gallon size). Domyown has 2.5 gallon jug.


Abound is more labeled for orchards than turf isn't it? IIRC the grass section doesn't list nearly as many disease treatments as the azoxy listed on DMO, for example. Does that matter? They're both 22.9% azoxy...


----------



## TampaBayFL

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Sample preventive fungicide program
> 
> 3 MOA:
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days
> Thiophanate-methyl 14 days


Thank you for this......I am following it as of this week.


----------



## g-man

@TampaBayFL this is a cool season guide. Check that these work on your warm season lawn.


----------



## TampaBayFL

Goodpoint @g-man .......I have mainly been considering the summertime weather which most of us share, but I certainly better think about the type of grass as well, especially as the seasons change.


----------



## bernstem

KoopHawk said:


> Abound is more labeled for orchards than turf isn't it? IIRC the grass section doesn't list nearly as many disease treatments as the azoxy listed on DMO, for example. Does that matter? They're both 22.9% azoxy...


Active ingredient is what matters. Though not the case here, if the percent active ingredient is different you will have to adjust application rates. Other than that they should work the same and cover the same diseases. If the percent AI is the same, there is a good chance they rolled off the same assembly line and just had a different label slapped on the bottle.

It is fairly common for Ag labeled versions of lawn chemicals to be cheaper per application. Calliso (same AI and percentage as Tenacity), for example, is less then half the price per ounce compared to Tenacity, but you have to buy a gallon of it.


----------



## KoopHawk

bernstem said:


> KoopHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abound is more labeled for orchards than turf isn't it? IIRC the grass section doesn't list nearly as many disease treatments as the azoxy listed on DMO, for example. Does that matter? They're both 22.9% azoxy...
> 
> 
> 
> Active ingredient is what matters. Though not the case here, if the percent active ingredient is different you will have to adjust application rates. Other than that they should work the same and cover the same diseases. If the percent AI is the same, there is a good chance they rolled off the same assembly line and just had a different label slapped on the bottle.
> 
> It is fairly common for Ag labeled versions of lawn chemicals to be cheaper per application. Calliso (same AI and percentage as Tenacity), for example, is less then half the price per ounce compared to Tenacity, but you have to buy a gallon of it.
Click to expand...

Thanks bern. I assumed that was the case but it is reassuring to have a little verification.


----------



## TampaBayFL

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> 3 MOA:
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days
> Thiophanate-methyl 14 days


@Suburban Jungle Life ......Do you find it best when using the above application spacings to be only applying one of the fungicides at a time?

For instance, if on the first day Azoxy went down, would you wait a week before applying the Propiconazole, then another week for the Thio, etc? Then maintain the 14 day spacing on each of these and then have an overlap with the azoxy every other time (since the space in between applications is twice as long?)


----------



## Methodical

bernstem said:


> Cleary's especially likes to settle in the tank. I pre-mix it to help prevent that. If you don't mix it well, you will get a highly concentrated spray at the beginning. In my experience, the others can do it as well, but aren't as bad.


I agree Cleary definitely settles to bottom. I always mix the product in a bucket with a drill and *THIS Mixer* before pouring into the sprayer. I also shake the back sprayer every so often while applying the product.  I never bought into adding water and product into the sprayer and just shaking it, especially when using dry mixture products. I use the FLOWZONE variable pressure sprayer and can apply products pretty quickly and not really have to worry about product settling. This backpack sprayer is a beast.


----------



## TreyDoc

I have leaf spot/melting out and summer patch running through my *** blend. On 06July, I put down Azoxy at curative. On 29July I put down preventative rate of both Propiconazole and Azoxy together. Can I put Azoxy and Thiophanate-Methyl tomorrow, 12 Aug and then just resume Propi, Thio, Azoxy rotation? I know SP is not going to be cured, but hopefully I can just prevent as much spread as possible. Also, is there anything I can do to better prepare for next year?

Thanks all.


----------



## Methodical

rockinmylawn said:


> Is there any guidance on temperature range for Azoxy (22.9%) application?
> 
> Thinking about laying down some this afternoon even though it will be usually hottest in my area @ 4-5pm.


Unlike Herbicides, I have not seen any temperature warnings on the fungicides I use (Cleary 3336F, Propiconazole or Myclobutanil), however, I apply these products during the coolest part of the day...early morning or late evening (temperature dependent). I irrigate the lawn prior to applying these or any other products in the summer, so that the lawn is not under any unnecessary stress.


----------



## Easyluck

@Suburban Jungle Life should you add Metconazole (Tourney) polyoxin D (affirm) and pyraclostrobin (insignia). I believe they are all labeled for residential.


----------



## Matthew_73

I am new to Fungicides... I really have not seen any disease in my lawn.. I am in the middle of a lawn reno.. Front is 10 DAG Back will be seeded in a few weeks.. I ordered Propi and would like to know if there are others I need or getting Propi was not needed... With the exception of Pythium, Propi will cover most, correct?


----------



## Old Hickory

Does the appearance of mycelium in the lawn *always* equal Pythium infection or does it appear with other diseases? And if so, which? Thanks


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Old Hickory said:


> Does the appearance of mycelium in the lawn *always* equal Pythium infection or does it appear with other diseases? And if so, which? Thanks


Mycelium in the lawn can appear due to many different causes, many of which are benign, some of which are signs of diseases, and some of which are urgently bad (such as Pythium). Telling them apart relies upon use of other symptoms, environmental conditions, and recent preventative or curative fungicide treatments.


----------



## kk07

Hi all,

Before I spend $125 on Azoxy 2SC, I want to really make sure it kills the rust fungus on the lawn. I read the fungicide guide page 1 and RU is listed in Red, meaning it treats the rust well.

The only reason I am asking here to double check is because when I read the label (pdf link below), it does not list the rust in the Target Diseases column of in the Turf diseases table (see page 4).

https://www.domyown.com/msds/Azoxy_2SC_Select_Label.pdf

It does list the rust for the ornamental plants (they even listed 4 different species under Rusts).

TIA!


----------



## daveNJ

I am going to apply some granular Propiconazole to treat a rust outbreak on my lawn. The forecast calls for 2 to 3 inches of rain the next two days. Is this too much rain? Should I wait until after the rain to apply this? Thanks.


----------



## lifeandmylens

Hi all, first of all thank you for putting this together.

Looking for some feedback on my 2021 Fungicide preventative plan. I already own the fungicides listed.

Started taking care of my lawn myself this year (mostly TTTF) and had lots of fungus this year, and looking back on pics when I paid someone to maintain it, it looked like I had lots of fungus then too. This year I had Pythium, some brown patch (I think) and I think I am getting some leaf spot now (GLS is my thought, but not sure).

That said, my watering in 2021 will be substantially improved (deep and infrequent), which, alone may help prevent some fungus in and of itself.

I'm in Nashville with a long and hot, humid summer. I've done lots of research on this, but still have tons to learn and am curious on your thoughts. I realize this is a rather extreme (and expensive) preventative plan.

Another thought is to add in Enclave in lieu of some of the treatments for another MOA especially towards the late summer, early fall. I do not own that yet.

May 1
Azoxystrobin & Propiconazole 28 days

June 1
Thiophanate-Methyl & Mefenoxam 14 days

June 15th
Thiophanate-Methyl & Mefenoxam 14 days

July 1
Azoxystrobin & Propiconazole 28 days

Aug 1st
Thiophanate-Methyl & Mefenoxam 14 days

Aug 15th
Thiophanate-Methyl & Mefenoxam 14 days

Sept 1st
Azoxystrobin & Propiconazole 28 days

Sept 15th (Approx seeding time - lots of water and still bouts of humidity)
Thiophanate-Methyl & Mefenoxam 10 days

Sept 25th
Thiophanate-Methyl & Mefenoxam 10 days

Oct 5th (Oct can still be in the 80s sometimes and humid)
Azoxystrobin & Propiconazole 28 days

Thanks in advance.


----------



## CarolinaCuttin

lifeandmylens said:


> Hi all, first of all thank you for putting this together.
> 
> Looking for some feedback on my 2021 Fungicide preventative plan. I already own the fungicides listed.
> 
> Started taking care of my lawn myself this year (mostly TTTF) and had lots of fungus this year, and looking back on pics when I paid someone to maintain it, it looked like I had lots of fungus then too. This year I had Pythium, some brown patch (I think) and I think I am getting some leaf spot now (GLS is my thought, but not sure).
> 
> That said, my watering in 2021 will be substantially improved (deep and infrequent), which, alone may help prevent some fungus in and of itself.
> 
> I'm in Nashville with a long and hot, humid summer. I've done lots of research on this, but still have tons to learn and am curious on your thoughts. I realize this is a rather extreme (and expensive) preventative plan.
> 
> Another thought is to add in Enclave in lieu of some of the treatments for another MOA especially towards the late summer, early fall. I do not own that yet.
> 
> May 1
> Azoxystrobin & Propiconazole 28 days
> 
> June 1
> Thiophanate-Methyl & Mefenoxam 14 days
> 
> June 15th
> Thiophanate-Methyl & Mefenoxam 14 days
> 
> July 1
> Azoxystrobin & Propiconazole 28 days
> 
> Aug 1st
> Thiophanate-Methyl & Mefenoxam 14 days
> 
> Aug 15th
> Thiophanate-Methyl & Mefenoxam 14 days
> 
> Sept 1st
> Azoxystrobin & Propiconazole 28 days
> 
> Sept 15th (Approx seeding time - lots of water and still bouts of humidity)
> Thiophanate-Methyl & Mefenoxam 10 days
> 
> Sept 25th
> Thiophanate-Methyl & Mefenoxam 10 days
> 
> Oct 5th (Oct can still be in the 80s sometimes and humid)
> Azoxystrobin & Propiconazole 28 days
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Subdue (mefenoxam) has an extremely high risk of resistance development. I know azoxystrobin is labeled for pythium but it's not useful once the disease pops up and it only works okay as a preventative. Use mefenoxam only once you see pythium present and at seed down (one application only). Get some phosphites and spray every 14 days during the growing season foliarly (low carrier volume, don't water in). Phosphites are cheap, they have low use rates, and I'm sure you could do a split with someone if you wanted. They are great at preventing a pythium outbreak when applied successively and preventatively. Subdue is your last line of defense unless you buy something else, so don't render it unusable by spraying it with no rotational partners throughout the season. Never spray two successive applications of Subdue without tank mixing it with another fungicide labeled for pythium.

If your main concerns are pythium and brown patch, this is what I would do.

Pythium: Do not water unless the turf needs water. Water in the early morning if possible. Every 14 days spray foliar phosphites. Do not tank mix with other fertilizers except urea. Check compatibility before mixing phosphites with anything except urea. Shorten interval to 7 days during periods of high disease pressure. If breakthrough occurs, spray mefenoxam at the max rate allowed by the label.

If pythium is bad for you then you will need another fungicide. I'd need to check which ones are labeled for residential lawns but some things to look at are Fore (mancozeb), Segway (cyzamofid), and Banol (propamocarb).

Brown patch: Do not water unless the turf is telling you that it needs water. Water in the early morning if possible. Do not give the turf more than 0.4 lbs N/M monthly from June to August. Maintain the turf at the proper mowing height going into the summer, the goal is to make it through.

Start preventatively treating when nighttime lows get above 60° F for three consecutive nights. Use azoxystrobin on a 28 day rotation, thiophanate-methyl on a 14 day rotation, and propiconazole on a 14 day rotation. Suppose you look at the forecast and see on June 12th that you have the first string of 3 nights above 60° F for the year. This means it's time to start treating preventively in anticipation. Using this as an example:

June 10th: Propiconazole
June 24th: Thiophanate-methyl 
July 8th: Azoxystrobin 
August 5th: Propiconazole
August 19th: Thiophanate Methyl
September 2nd: Azoxystrobin

By the time the last azoxystrobin app wears off, you are probably out of the woods as far as brown patch, temps at night will be below 60° F. If you happen to see a breakthrough, raise the rates and shorten the interval for the next application. If you are managing your water properly I don't see how any brown patch will get through a program like this.

Regarding watering, I'm growing TTTF in SC and I like to wait to see the first (mild) signs of drought stress before putting any water down. The first signs are the leaf blade shrinking and getting thin and needle-like. I'm not saying you need to wait until it turns purple or brown, just wait until it starts to tell you it needs water.

Once I see stress, I pound it hard with water in the morning knowing that the roots will suck it up quickly and the sun will dry out the soil by sunset that night. The best disease prevention program is good management practices!


----------



## lifeandmylens

Thank you very much! This is excellent info for me to have. In the past I have definitely watered poorly and over watered. I will look into phosphites, I haven't heard of that yet.

What about tackling what I believe to be Gray Leaf Spot which has appeared early fall this year due to probably all the watering from the overseeding.

And then we get rains from the hurricanes that move up the country and it's always followed by cloudy days with high temps and humidity (how fun).

Currently my lawn is soaked from 3-4 inches of rain and the disease (what looks like melting out of new seedlings with some GLS looking spots on them too) is spreading. But the grass is still wet and tomorrow will be 80, cloudy and humid so not expecting it to dry tomorrow either. Guessing I should wait to treat it until it dries?

So would like to treat what I currently have going on. But also have a preventative plan in place for this new disease also.


----------



## CarolinaCuttin

@lifeandmylens One of the most important things with respect to pest management is proper identification. Can you get a picture of what you are seeing to see if we can make a confident ID? From far away, close up of affected plant, close up of leaf, etc.

You don't want to start throwing stuff down until you're sure what you have going on.


----------



## lifeandmylens

CarolinaCuttin said:


> @lifeandmylens One of the most important things with respect to pest management is proper identification. Can you get a picture of what you are seeing to see if we can make a confident ID? From far away, close up of affected plant, close up of leaf, etc.
> 
> You don't want to start throwing stuff down until you're sure what you have going on.


Ok thank you.

Here are the newly seeded areas from further away:


















And close ups (yellowing and small patches becoming sunken and slimy):


















































And blades (Seedling blades dying, older grass blades showing spots):


----------



## CarolinaCuttin

@lifeandmylens Yeah I'm agreeing with that diagnosis. What have you put down in the last 60 days and what dates for each app?


----------



## lifeandmylens

CarolinaCuttin said:


> @lifeandmylens Yeah I'm agreeing with that diagnosis. What have you put down in the last 60 days and what dates for each app?


Ok thanks. I put down:

Azoxystrobin .4oz/M Aug 14th (preventative)

Propiconazole 1 oz/M at seeding (Sept 4th)

Mefenoxam 1 oz/M Sept 10th (knocked it out right away)

Mefenoxam 1 oz/M Sept 21st (didn't know better and put down another dose just in case per label)

My plan was going to be a curative rate of strobe tank mixed with either prop or clearys. Or possibly purchase Enclave knowing it may take a week to arrive. But open to your guidance.


----------



## CarolinaCuttin

@lifeandmylens If you want to treat for it, I would tank mix Azoxy and Cleary's for GLS, that will absolutely decimate it. It will also give you a month's worth of protection from any other issues that arise.

Enclave will do a fantastic job as well but keep in mind any product containing chlorothalonil is not labeled for application to residential lawns, including Enclave. Do with that info what you wish.

It looks like you have pooling of water on the turf near the cement pad around the pool. If you have standing water for multiple days after heavy rains, there isn't going to be a spray program good enough to keep the turf clean in those areas, the best bet is to sod cut those areas and grade it properly so that it runs down to the pine straw.


----------



## lifeandmylens

@CarolinaCuttin Thank you again!! You've been so helpful. A few follow up questions:

1) If I spray tomorrow and the grass is slightly wet (wont have rained for 24 hours, but still wet and then wet from dew) will that be ok, or should I wait for totally dry grass blades say in 2 days?
2) Should I use a surfactant with fungicides like 3336f and strobe? I find mixed answers on this online and no real info on the labels for turf.
3) Would you do anything differently than your suggested plan above to add prevention for GLS in 2021?
4) No N until this is cleaned up, right?


----------



## CarolinaCuttin

@lifeandmylens

1. You need this spray to hit the leaf blade and stay there. Spraying with a lot of dew or moisture on the leaf can cause some of the spray to fall off the leaf. Exactly how much you can get away with is something you'll have to be the judge of, you want the spray on the leaf and not messed with until it's dry.

2. Always read the label when looking for that info, if it were me I would not use one unless the label says one can/should be used. After reading the Strobe label, I would not use one.

3. Probably not, those three fungicides control GLS (but propiconazole doesn't do a great job) even though the program is built for brown patch management.

4. Yes definitely no N for at least a week or two, and I would consider waiting until November. By then the hurricane threat will be mostly gone and temps will be low enough to keep disease pressure down.


----------



## lifeandmylens

@CarolinaCuttin Thank you so much!


----------



## lifeandmylens

@CarolinaCuttin sprayed the Strobe+3336F today!

A couple more questions for you.

For the phosphites you mentioned for next year, something like this? https://www.domyown.com/phostrol-fungicide-p-21783.html

And finally, with GLS, I'll obviously bag clippings, but should I lower HOC to dry it out or keep around 3" which is what I currently have been cutting at after overseeding?


----------



## CarolinaCuttin

@lifeandmylens That's perfectly fine, but it isn't labeled for turf so there's no telling what else is in it or what rates to use. I use Phite 0-0-26 @ 3 oz/M and even with 3 straight days of rain and warm nights my bentgrass is clean as a whistle.

I would not cut it lower, I would maintain a low-stress HOC (3 inches sounds great) especially during periods of drought or high disease pressure.


----------



## lifeandmylens

@CarolinaCuttin thank you! I will keep it at 3".

Re: Phite 0-0-26 - since its potash will this raise potassium levels in my soil?


----------



## CarolinaCuttin

lifeandmylens said:


> @CarolinaCuttin thank you! I will keep it at 3".
> 
> Re: Phite 0-0-26 - since its potash will this raise potassium levels in my soil?


It will slightly, I believe 3 oz per thousand is roughly 0.07 pounds of K per thousand. It's a very small amount but it is something.

However, so will the fungicide you linked to since it has potassium phosphite in it as well. The only difference is that the fungicide isn't required to give you a nutritional analysis.


----------



## lifeandmylens

CarolinaCuttin said:


> lifeandmylens said:
> 
> 
> 
> @CarolinaCuttin thank you! I will keep it at 3".
> 
> Re: Phite 0-0-26 - since its potash will this raise potassium levels in my soil?
> 
> 
> 
> It will slightly, I believe 3 oz per thousand is roughly 0.07 pounds of K per thousand. It's a very small amount but it is something.
> 
> However, so will the fungicide you linked to since it has potassium phosphite in it as well. The only difference is that the fungicide isn't required to give you a nutritional analysis.
Click to expand...

Thank you again! I will order some. Use every two weeks in the growing season, low carrier volume and spray maybe the opposite weeks that I put down a fungicide?


----------



## CarolinaCuttin

@lifeandmylens Yes, spray at 3 oz/M every 14 days, lower the interval to 7 days during periods of high disease pressure. I spray at 50 gallons per acre (1.15 gal/M) but anything close to 1 gal/M should be fine.

I haven't tried tank mixing it with anything except urea. No issues with urea but phosphites are very finicky, so you have to do a jar test before mixing with other products.


----------



## lifeandmylens

@CarolinaCuttin Understood. Ordered it. Thank you for all your help!


----------



## slash8118

Summer Patch question: NC State recommends: "Two to three applications on 28-day intervals provide excellent summer patch control in most situations."

That implies that SP is not a threat in mid/late Summer? Is this the case or do fungicide applications need to continue as long as soil temps are 65+?


----------



## bernstem

@slash8118 It likely depends on pressure and conditions. I have not found two applications to be sufficient, but it is very possible I am doing something else to increase my Summer Patch pressure. I would be interested to hear from people with good results with two applications.


----------



## Copat

attempting to wrap my head around all of the fungicide applications......What would be a straight forward granular plan that is easily accessible at the box stores/feed stores? TIA


----------



## VALawnNoob

Copat said:


> attempting to wrap my head around all of the fungicide applications......What would be a straight forward granular plan that is easily accessible at the box stores/feed stores? TIA


Scott's DiseaseEx

That said, you should read up on the guide and know if you are trying to cure existing condition or prevent a future one. You would to use the best fungicide for what you are using it for.


----------



## Stro3579

BC7269 said:


> Great thread. Just put mine down today. Put down group 3 Propiconizole and also group 11 Azoxystrobin. May follow up with another app of Azoxystrobin in 30 days.


What type of grass do you have?


----------



## Copat

@VALawnNoob I have new lawn (new construction home) with some bare/patchy spots remaining. In this patchy spots I've noticed this. Haven't been able to identify exactly what it is as of yet.


----------



## VALawnNoob

Our grass in VA is just coming out dormancy. Maybe let things grow out a little first? 
Fungicide propiconazole has some PGR effects so not sure if right now is the best time to spray. We should wait for active growing time to see if leaf blades really do have fungus. Sometimes they can grow out of it.

Also, are you spring seeding to fill in some of the bare spots?


----------



## Copat

Thank you for the help! @VALawnNoob

Yep - I just laid down some more titan Rx about 10 days ago and have noticed new germination. I have also just started to apply .25LB of urea every week for the next 4-6 weeks. Back in feb I put down Jonathan green crab grass preventer + fertilizer. It's composed of tupersan which is supposedly safe for seeding. I'm also going to add down humanic and kelp meal. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

My house was complete back in ocotiber and I put down 3 bags of titan rx. It came in decent but there is definitely a lot of barespots. I wish I would have thrown down some KBG or rye to get me through the spring/summer before overseeding in the fall. I'm really new to the lawn care game so I'm trying to absorb as much knowledge as possible


----------



## Csantucci

Copat said:


> attempting to wrap my head around all of the fungicide applications......What would be a straight forward granular plan that is easily accessible at the box stores/feed stores? TIA


I alternate scotts disease x from home depot and bioadvance from Lowes. 2 different modes of action. I alternate them every two months during high pressure. But not everywhere has a lowes and home depot.


----------



## Deltahedge

I'm excited to get my order with Propiconazole 41.8% and Azoxystrobin 22.9% today. I've never had my yard on a routine fungicide plan, and I am ready to do it this year and see the results. This is a great thread.


----------



## LawnMavrik

I've ordered Headway G understanding the guide has it as high cost per app but I like the idea of using the dual MOA as a preventative measure that I can spread as a granular. I had brown patch last season in the TTTF. Want to mitigate. What is the timing recommendation for getting in front of fungus disease? For some reason was thinking there is a formula using dew point and temperature combined to estimate likelihood of conditions being right to apply fungicide. Anyone aware of such a thing we can use as a tool?


----------



## ionicatoms

@LawnMavrik I believe you need to start applying preventive apps at least a month ahead of the time when conditions are conducive to outbreaks. I tried to follow this strategy last fall to avoid large patch, and it turned out that a month wasn't enough lead time for me. Maybe I needed a larger dose? or maybe I should have been cutting at much less than 4". Not sure. It did allow me time to catch the disease early to limit my impact, but I wasn't successful at preventing it altogether.


----------



## LawnMavrik

@ionicatoms ive heard varying approaches with regard to HOC and disease resistance and any adverse conditions for that matter. For TTTF I saw a comment that a taller HOC during summer is better especially if NOT on a fungicide program as the longer grass leaf in fescue stores much of the nutrients needed to endure stressful conditions. Tradeoff being more mass and surface area for moisture to persist.

A month ahead of initial outbreak makes sense to me however, in my novice opinion


----------



## Alowan

What About Diphenoconazol? Cant Seem to find it on the list?


----------



## Lawndad

I know most fungicides say apply every 14 to 28 days when conditions are favorable for disease but how exactly do I determine if I should apply it at 14 days or if the 28 day mark is good?

Summer is always hot and humid in NJ and it seems like Summer always has favorable conditions. I don't want to waste money by applying too early. Should I be looking at humidity and temperature? How and what exactly am I using as a gauge to determine if 28 days is okay and no need to go at 14 days?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Lawndad said:


> I know most fungicides say apply every 14 to 28 days when conditions are favorable for disease but how exactly do I determine if I should apply it at 14 days or if the 28 day mark is good?
> 
> Summer is always hot and humid in NJ and it seems like Summer always has favorable conditions. I don't want to waste money by applying too early. Should I be looking at humidity and temperature? How and what exactly am I using as a gauge to determine if 28 days is okay and no need to go at 14 days?


Fungicides always have a range. If I apply the low amount I'm only going to get 14 days. If I go with the upper amount then I'll take it 28 days.

The caveat is Propi...I only get 14 days out of an application regardless if I do 1oz or 2oz per K.


----------



## Lawndad

JerseyGreens said:


> Lawndad said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know most fungicides say apply every 14 to 28 days when conditions are favorable for disease but how exactly do I determine if I should apply it at 14 days or if the 28 day mark is good?
> 
> Summer is always hot and humid in NJ and it seems like Summer always has favorable conditions. I don't want to waste money by applying too early. Should I be looking at humidity and temperature? How and what exactly am I using as a gauge to determine if 28 days is okay and no need to go at 14 days?
> 
> 
> 
> Fungicides always have a range. If I apply the low amount I'm only going to get 14 days. If I go with the upper amount then I'll take it 28 days.
> 
> The caveat is Propi...I only get 14 days out of an application regardless if I do 1oz or 2oz per K.
Click to expand...

I am using Pillar G and Clearys 3336 both granular. Pillar said 3#/1k SF. There was no other numbers to dial it up or down. I'm trying to see when my Clearys would go down, 14 or 28 days after....?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Lawndad said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lawndad said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know most fungicides say apply every 14 to 28 days when conditions are favorable for disease but how exactly do I determine if I should apply it at 14 days or if the 28 day mark is good?
> 
> Summer is always hot and humid in NJ and it seems like Summer always has favorable conditions. I don't want to waste money by applying too early. Should I be looking at humidity and temperature? How and what exactly am I using as a gauge to determine if 28 days is okay and no need to go at 14 days?
> 
> 
> 
> Fungicides always have a range. If I apply the low amount I'm only going to get 14 days. If I go with the upper amount then I'll take it 28 days.
> 
> The caveat is Propi...I only get 14 days out of an application regardless if I do 1oz or 2oz per K.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am using Pillar G and Clearys 3336 both granular. Pillar said 3#/1k SF. There was no other numbers to dial it up or down. I'm trying to see when my Clearys would go down, 14 or 28 days after....?
Click to expand...

I've never used granular fungicide. If you have no fungus pressure then take it 28 days per the label. If you think fungus is present even the slightest bit go 14. That's what I would do.


----------



## Lawndad

JerseyGreens said:


> Lawndad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fungicides always have a range. If I apply the low amount I'm only going to get 14 days. If I go with the upper amount then I'll take it 28 days.
> 
> The caveat is Propi...I only get 14 days out of an application regardless if I do 1oz or 2oz per K.
> 
> 
> 
> I am using Pillar G and Clearys 3336 both granular. Pillar said 3#/1k SF. There was no other numbers to dial it up or down. I'm trying to see when my Clearys would go down, 14 or 28 days after....?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've never used granular fungicide. If you have no fungus pressure then take it 28 days per the label. If you think fungus is present even the slightest bit go 14. That's what I would do.
Click to expand...

Looks like every 14 days then because Summer is inevitable to have some mind of pressure. Thanks for the insight.


----------



## MrJangles82

LawnMavrik said:


> @ionicatoms ive heard varying approaches with regard to HOC and disease resistance and any adverse conditions for that matter. For TTTF I saw a comment that a taller HOC during summer is better especially if NOT on a fungicide program as the longer grass leaf in fescue stores much of the nutrients needed to endure stressful conditions. Tradeoff being more mass and surface area for moisture to persist.
> 
> A month ahead of initial outbreak makes sense to me however, in my novice opinion


Yes, i think i saw the same comment you are referring to - taller HOC during summer in general for Tall Fescue, especially if not on a fungicide program. But then today, landscaper came by and immediately said my lawn had fungus and that the grass was too tall (just cut it two days ago at to 4"). He said the taller the grass, the more more it will block the sun from soil and allow for moisture to build or be kept overnight, which will inevitably lead to fungus. He suggested I was improperly watering and leaving grass too tall. Ironically, i had been cutting grass at 3" up until maybe 3-4 weeks ago, upped it to 3.5" and then cut it at 4" for first time two days ago. Ugh.

He recommended i go back down to lower HOC and mow twice every week. So, I'll go down to 3.5" and trying to determine curative fungicide treatment plan for my tall fescue.


----------



## Old Hickory

MrJangles82 said:


> He recommended i go back down to lower HOC and mow twice every week. So, I'll go down to 3.5" and trying to determine curative fungicide treatment plan for my tall fescue.


And bag your clippings if you suspect active fungus.


----------



## Overtaxed

> And bag your clippings if you suspect active fungus.


Never thought of that (embarrassed to say), but it makes sense. Get the spore infested blades out of there, right? Is this a general recommendation dealing with fungus? I've just never seen anyone mention it before, but it certainly seems reasonable!


----------



## Stellar P

Overtaxed said:


> And bag your clippings if you suspect active fungus.
> 
> 
> 
> Never thought of that (embarrassed to say), but it makes sense. Get the spore infested blades out of there, right? Is this a general recommendation dealing with fungus? I've just never seen anyone mention it before, but it certainly seems reasonable!
Click to expand...

Yes. It is standard practice to reduce disease pressure when the disease is already present.


----------



## Overtaxed

Stellar P said:


> Overtaxed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And bag your clippings if you suspect active fungus.
> 
> 
> 
> Never thought of that (embarrassed to say), but it makes sense. Get the spore infested blades out of there, right? Is this a general recommendation dealing with fungus? I've just never seen anyone mention it before, but it certainly seems reasonable!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. It is standard practice to reduce disease pressure when the disease is already present.
Click to expand...

Thanks Stellar, learned something new today! I'm in the fight with some fungus right now, so I'll absolutely start doing that. Again, makes perfect sense, fewer spores is better than more spores, I just never thought about it.


----------



## MrJangles82

Old Hickory said:


> MrJangles82 said:
> 
> 
> 
> He recommended i go back down to lower HOC and mow twice every week. So, I'll go down to 3.5" and trying to determine curative fungicide treatment plan for my tall fescue.
> 
> 
> 
> And bag your clippings if you suspect active fungus.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the tip! Fortunately already been bagging clippings thus far this year. Had some patches of POA, so we were bagging in attempt to avoid the POA spreading. This past weekend we ended up just picking them by hand, so I'm glad you mentioned this because we were going to start mulching the clippings. Thank you!


----------



## Lawndad

Well, my BP came back this year and last year it killed a decent amount of my grass. Last year, I ran Scotts Disease EX, Propi (liquid) and some Clearys (liquid) which obviously didn't help.

This year I applied Pillar G and 15 days later I applied Clearys 3336 (granular). Clearys was just a few days ago. I'm worried it's going to continue to spread and kill my lawn much earlier than it did last year.

I have TTTF in NJ, I don't water much and if so early in the AM, my mower's blades are sharp and I applied Double Dark 16-0-0 %6 Fe a few weeks ago (3#/1k sf).

What should be my go to kill for this BP now? Spraying Azoxy....?


----------



## Old Hickory

Lawndad said:


> Well, my BP came back this year and last year it killed a decent amount of my grass.


BP meaning Brown Patch? Or do you mean PB pythium blight? Looks like PB and if so then look at Mefenoxom.


----------



## Lawndad

Old Hickory said:


> Lawndad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, my BP came back this year and last year it killed a decent amount of my grass.
> 
> 
> 
> BP meaning Brown Patch? Or do you mean PB pythium blight? Looks like PB and if so then look at Mefenoxom.
Click to expand...

I am %99 sure Brown Patch. Last year, I had my local county extension confirm that for me. It has the same cotton mycelium as last year and looks dead in those spots.

Edit: It's not greasy either which led me to BP as well.


----------



## Darth_V8r

Lawndad said:


> Old Hickory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lawndad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, my BP came back this year and last year it killed a decent amount of my grass.
> 
> 
> 
> BP meaning Brown Patch? Or do you mean PB pythium blight? Looks like PB and if so then look at Mefenoxom.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am %99 sure Brown Patch. Last year, I had my local county extension confirm that for me. It has the same cotton mycelium as last year and looks dead in those spots.
> 
> Edit: It's not greasy either which led me to BP as well.
Click to expand...

Consider Broadform Fungicide or Luna Experience. Same ingredients - Fluopyram and Trifloxystrobin. Very effective against quite a wide range of diseases. It's the same main ingredients as Extersis Stressgard, but much higher concentration. Added benefit of being able to keep a nematode infestation at bay


----------



## Matthew_73

OHP 6672 50 WP $36.98 8 apps at low rate and 4 apps at high rate..

Would this work as a temp for this season and then next, get a bigger quantity?


----------



## Camman595

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Sample preventive fungicide program with 4 MOA:
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days (labelled for 21 days but that didn't work for me)
> Thiophanate-methyl 14 days
> Flutolanil 14 days


Does this mean apply Azoxystrobin, then 28 days later apply Propiconazole, then 14 days later apply Thiophanate-methyl, then 14 days later apply Flutolanil, then 14 days later start the cycle again?

Or does it mean apply Azoxystrobin every 28 days and apply Propiconazole & Thiophanate-methyl & Flutolanil 14 every 14 days?


----------



## Old Hickory

I take it as meaning the first.


----------



## corneliani

Camman595 said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sample preventive fungicide program with 4 MOA:
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days (labelled for 21 days but that didn't work for me)
> Thiophanate-methyl 14 days
> Flutolanil 14 days
> 
> 
> 
> Does this mean apply Azoxystrobin, then 28 days later apply Propiconazole, then 14 days later apply Thiophanate-methyl, then 14 days later apply Flutolanil, then 14 days later start the cycle again?
> 
> Or does it mean apply Azoxystrobin every 28 days and apply Propiconazole & Thiophanate-methyl & Flutolanil 14 every 14 days?
Click to expand...

Don't view this as a hard & set instruction set as much as a list of varied fungicides with different MOA's that can be used to control against most common fungus outbreaks in the home lawn. These products would ideally be tank-mixed in some sort of combination to give you those different MOAs in each app (the consensus seems to be that this offers the best defense for fungicide resistance, as well as highest efficacy per app). The "art" of which fungicide to apply & at what interval is something that should really depend on what disease you're trying to prevent and the pressure you're facing - hence why labels have that "apply when conditions are favorable for disease development" statement. This will differ depending on your turf type, location, soil OM, etc etc etc.

For a quick gameplan/overview, most of us have 3-4 months of fungus season to contend with (approx 4-6 preventative applications). Azoxystrobin allows for 2-3 continuous apps before recommending changing MOAs. TM allows for 4 yearly apps of 2oz/1000 (or 2 apps of 4oz for curative). Not sure on Prop but I tend to use it more as a tank-mix than a stand-alone app. Either way these 3 products themselves should cover you for 4-6 apps, and the addition of a Group7 (Velista?) would really take you to the next level. Ideally cultural practices together with the right cultivar turf will eliminate the need for such expensive synthetic fungicides. It would be a win/win all around for that to happen. But for highly maintained turf this may always be a necessity.

...

For me in Atlanta my fungicide season starts in early-mid May and I'm mainly concerned with BP & GLS. There's a chance of DS early in the season when the nights are still cold and dew forms on the turf so I start my season off with Propiconazole (either alone or tank mixed with TM or Azoxy, depending on how hot/muggy things got). I like it here because it's still cool enough where temp restrictions don't kick in, and any growth regulation it causes is a welcome respite. 
If the weather is especially wet & muggy I may have to apply another app as early as 14 days but if things are normal I try to wait the full 25-28 days that Azoxy gives me. This is all a judgement call. I usually rely on Azoxystrobin to carry me through the early summer months (tank mixed w Propiconazole or TM) and after 3-4 apps I'll switch to TM (with or without Prop). If weather is still hot during overseeding window an application of Prop will wrap up my season. I usually anticipate 5-7 apps per season in my southern climate.


----------



## Camman595

@corneliani Thank you for the very informative explanation. That helps a lot. I have never dealt with fungicides before (even though I had fungus, but didn't realize it). I am now getting into caring for my lawn and don't want to lose ground to something that is easily preventable. I am doing a reno on my front yard and I am using 3 top-quality cultivars of TTTF.


----------



## kk07

Hi, I have TTTF-KBG lawn that I seeded on labor day. I am seeing some yellow spots. My last fungicide app was on 09/30 with Propiconozol 14.3. I have been spoon feeding urea too 0.25 lb N weekly. I am thinking of applying azoxy 2sc this weekend. My question is how late can I apply fungicides before the winter? Like is there a minimum temperature that the fungicide would work?


----------



## Jeff_MI84

When you start to notice lesions on the blades going into winter, when do you start reapplying in the spring?

Once soil/ surface temperatures get to a specific range? After the first few mows?


----------



## Green

Jeff_MI84 said:


> When you start to notice lesions on the blades going into winter, when do you start reapplying in the spring?
> 
> Once soil/ surface temperatures get to a specific range? After the first few mows?


Depends on whether the disease overwinter and remains active or not. Some subside over Winter and begin again later in the year rather than Spring.


----------



## Green

kk07 said:


> Hi, I have TTTF-KBG lawn that I seeded on labor day. I am seeing some yellow spots. My last fungicide app was on 09/30 with Propiconozol 14.3. I have been spoon feeding urea too 0.25 lb N weekly. I am thinking of applying azoxy 2sc this weekend. My question is how late can I apply fungicides before the winter? Like is there a minimum temperature that the fungicide would work?


The label should give you temperature info. Also, try to identify at least what disease family you're dealing with. Eg. Leaf spot vs rust, etc.


----------



## kk07

Green said:


> kk07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, I have TTTF-KBG lawn that I seeded on labor day. I am seeing some yellow spots. My last fungicide app was on 09/30 with Propiconozol 14.3. I have been spoon feeding urea too 0.25 lb N weekly. I am thinking of applying azoxy 2sc this weekend. My question is how late can I apply fungicides before the winter? Like is there a minimum temperature that the fungicide would work?
> 
> 
> 
> The label should give you temperature info. Also, try to identify at least what disease family you're dealing with. Eg. Leaf spot vs rust, etc.
Click to expand...

I read the propiconazole 14.3 label. I can't find any temperature information for melting out. It only mention the application interval which is 14 days. Can you point me to the label with such temp info?


----------



## Jeff_MI84

@Green thank you. I suppose I'll just be more vigilant once the lawn greens up in the spring and I begin mowing.


----------



## Jeff_MI84

@kk07 if you can, try reaching out to the manufacturer. I did that for Eagle 20ew (Dow AgroSciences). It seems like the regional reps are very helpful. I was told by their representative that I didn't (or shouldn't) need to spray below 50° for DS or MO.


----------



## Green

kk07 said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kk07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, I have TTTF-KBG lawn that I seeded on labor day. I am seeing some yellow spots. My last fungicide app was on 09/30 with Propiconozol 14.3. I have been spoon feeding urea too 0.25 lb N weekly. I am thinking of applying azoxy 2sc this weekend. My question is how late can I apply fungicides before the winter? Like is there a minimum temperature that the fungicide would work?
> 
> 
> 
> The label should give you temperature info. Also, try to identify at least what disease family you're dealing with. Eg. Leaf spot vs rust, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read the propiconazole 14.3 label. I can't find any temperature information for melting out. It only mention the application interval which is 14 days. Can you point me to the label with such temp info?
Click to expand...

I would also do some online searching in that case, if no one here knows. I know some fungicides can be used be used in low temps, but I'm not sure which ones.


----------



## SouthernTiftuf

I have read through a lot of this thread and it has some great info and I just have some follow up questions for my bermuda being laid in MArch.

Should I apply Azoxystrobin a couple of days after the sod is laid? It makes sense in my head to do tis with all of the watering I will be doing. Is there any risks or negatives to this?

When do you stop applying fungicides throughout the year? I have seen anything from August to November so I am not sure when is the best time and if extending it later poses any harm to the grass?

How do insecticides play into this? I have seen a lot about fungicide but also want to avoid things like grubs in the yard so how often and when should this be applied to be preventative?

Thank you in advance to any replies and thank you to everyone else for the knowledge I have gained from this thread!


----------



## Ware

@SouthernTiftuf for bermuda you should probably ask those questions in the warm season subforum. If you can't find an applicable thread, feel free to start a new one with your questions.


----------



## g-man

@SouthernTiftuf and to add to what Ware said. This guide is for cool season grasses. Some of the fungicides here can actually harm some of the warm season lawns. Dont follow this guide without more research.

Also, bermuda is barely growing in March (from my limited knowledge). I would be concern with bermuda sod so early. But I'm a cool season guy and I think bermuda is a weed, so dont listen to me. Ask in the warm season folder.


----------



## Lawn Whisperer

g-man said:


> … to add to what Ware said. This guide is for cool season grasses. Some of the fungicides here can actually harm some of the warm season lawns. Dont follow this guide without more research.


This guide is linked on the  warm season guide subforum  by @Ware .


----------



## spaceman_spiff

Are combo fungicide products recommended?

I currently have on hand:
- DiseaseEx (11) for Rust/PB
- Propriconazole 14.3 (3) for an alternative MOA for Rust

And I just ordered some Headway G (3/11) for Rust/PB, but mostly for a second MOA for PB that doesn't cost a billion dollars since it seems my PB is becoming resistant to DiseaseEx.

Is this an ok strategy? Or are there other reasonably-priced other MOA products I should consider? It seems most of the stuff that covers PB is expensive.


----------



## bernstem

spaceman_spiff said:


> Are combo fungicide products recommended?
> 
> I currently have on hand:
> - DiseaseEx (11) for Rust/PB
> - Propriconazole 14.3 (3) for an alternative MOA for Rust
> 
> And I just ordered some Headway G (3/11) for Rust/PB, but mostly for a second MOA for PB that doesn't cost a billion dollars since it seems my PB is becoming resistant to DiseaseEx.
> 
> Is this an ok strategy? Or are there other reasonably-priced other MOA products I should consider? It seems most of the stuff that covers PB is expensive.


Rotating from a class 11 to another class 11 is not the best and does not help prevent resistance. You want to rotate to a different class. My preferred fungicide rotation uses class 11, 3, and 7. Class 7 tend to be expensive. Combo products are fine, but you still want to rotate classes.


----------



## spaceman_spiff

bernstem said:


> spaceman_spiff said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are combo fungicide products recommended?
> 
> I currently have on hand:
> - DiseaseEx (11) for Rust/PB
> - Propriconazole 14.3 (3) for an alternative MOA for Rust
> 
> And I just ordered some Headway G (3/11) for Rust/PB, but mostly for a second MOA for PB that doesn't cost a billion dollars since it seems my PB is becoming resistant to DiseaseEx.
> 
> Is this an ok strategy? Or are there other reasonably-priced other MOA products I should consider? It seems most of the stuff that covers PB is expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> Rotating from a class 11 to another class 11 is not the best and does not help prevent resistance. You want to rotate to a different class. My preferred fungicide rotation uses class 11, 3, and 7. Class 7 tend to be expensive. Combo products are fine, but you still want to rotate classes.
Click to expand...

In that case, any recommendations on a different class for PB that doesn't cost $500/bottle?  The list in the OP seems to suggest not, unfortunately.


----------



## Wile

I don't know that many besides Mefanoxam that control PB.

I too am in a similar situation. I'm wondering if its worth going 2 MOA and 3 AI since the cost of adding another MOA is more than I can do this year. I'm mainly looking to control DS with some help on BP and SP. I have Propicanizole, Thiophanate Methyl, and Azoxystrobin. I'm limited to 4 sprays with the TM and running back to back Propi apps in between, for dollar spot, in a 26 week period. The Azoxy is my kicker for about 3.5-4 months of coverage. My thought is I can cheaply add Myclobutanil to give me at least another active ingredient so that I'm not spraying the same AI and Frac group twice in a row. Any thoughts on whether this is worth it? Or should I just stick to my 2 MOA and 2AI to control DS?


----------



## Turf Jitsu

When would you all recommend to apply a preventative application?


----------



## bernstem

Turf Jitsu said:


> When would you all recommend to apply a preventative application?


Prevention should be targeted at the likely disease fungus so depends on what you are fighting. If you don't have a known fungal issue, then preventive applications are probably not necessary. I don't know much about TTTF diseases.

For KBG, Dollar Spot and Summer Patch are the two major diseases. Propiconazole will prevent Dollar Spot. Azoxystrobin will prevent Summer Patch. Applications should be timed based on the disease. For Summer Patch, you want to apply when soil temps are at 65 degrees. For Dollar Spot, you would apply based on a predictive model like the Smith-Kerns Dollar Spot model.


----------



## Wile

Turf Jitsu said:


> When would you all recommend to apply a preventative application?


It's going to depend on what diseases you are looking to control and are the conditions ripe for disease? It's important to identify those times and know what your turf type is most susceptible too. Something like TTTF would be very susceptible to Brown Patch and we would want to look at when conditions are favorable for disease to set in and how can we keep the turf healthy enough before disease pressure is high. This would be the time I would start using a preventative. If you download the sygenta app, they have all sorts of different diseases per grass type and what the conditions are to look out for, and recommendations on how to combat it. Or maybe someone on here has done that too and can link it.


----------



## Turf Jitsu

Thanks for answering my question


----------



## eric1104

Looking for some input on a fungicide plan for this season. My question seems similar to @Wile's question above....which is not surprising because we both have KBG and are in the same area. Last year was my first in the area...I was unprepared. No plan in place and was slow to react to the fungus outbreaks when they arose. The main observation was DS and LS/melting out pressure. I also encountered what I believe to be PB late in the season (mostly due to atypical fall conditions - wet/warm/humid for extended period). Finally, I have observed snow mold for the second season, which should not be surprising since we've had nearly complete snow cover Dec-Feb/March.

I believe my cultural practices are good. Outbreaks only seemed to occur when environmental conditions were favorable for disease.

I now have on hand: propiconozole, azoxystrobin, thiophanate-methyl, and penthiopyrad (Velista). I've been playing around with some different orders/combinations. Still very much a work in progress, but I'm thinking the early propi will cover me for DS, I threw in a Velista app to help with the LS/melting out I saw fairly early last year, moving to thiophanate-methyl for residual DS and decent BP/SP coverage, and then moving to Azoxy for continuing BP/SP coverage. Finally, some late azoxy/propi combination apps around expected snow cover.



Any comments on this are welcome. I'm new to preventative fungicide applications.

I plan to pay closer attention to the environmental conditions (especially the Kerns DS model). With fungicides on hand, should I go with the plan or just react to DS/LS conditions and treat anything else I encounter on a curative basis?


----------



## Jeff_MI84

This year is my first foray into preventative fungicide apps. I mostly deal with DS, LS or MO. I plan on rotating between Eagle 20EW, Propiconazole, Heritage SC, Cleary 3336, Headway G and DiseaseEx.

MO and LS seem to happen only in the backyard and DS and maybe LS in the front. I do get alerts for DS from Greencast. If I really want to get on the ball, what percentage is best to go out and do a preventative application, only once it gets to 20% or once it's creeping up in the teens? Also, is there anything I need to be weary of in regard to Propiconazole? Does too much overlap or a high concentration in one spot burn the grass, or is it best to apply earlier in the day/ later and night and water in sooner than later?


----------



## CDR

I know it's desired to rotate classes however if you simply went with a combo like Pillar G which has 11 & 3 in it, can you just use that straight through with no rotations?

If not, then just stick with an 11 and a 3 and maybe toss in one more and rotate monthly.


----------



## ajahrendt07

Hello everyone. Fungicide plans are the only thing that really scare me and kind of confuse me to be honest. Therefore, I'm hesitant to commit. I want to start an affordable preventative program because I want to also start PGR this year. I live in the Dakota's and have primarily KBG. I am not super familiar with diseases and funguses that are common in my area. That's why I was hoping someone else here was from the Dakota's or the area and has a good affordable program for common fungus in the area. I see that I should rotate between two different MOA's to avoid resistance. I was hoping someone would have a good plan so I'm sure of my actions prior to dropping money and possibly messing it up. Thanks!


----------



## ScottW

Jeff_MI84 said:


> ... I do get alerts for DS from Greencast. If I really want to get on the ball, what percentage is best to go out and do a preventative application, only once it gets to 20% or once it's creeping up in the teens? Also, is there anything I need to be weary of in regard to Propiconazole? Does too much overlap or a high concentration in one spot burn the grass, or is it best to apply earlier in the day/ later and night and water in sooner than later?


I know this reply is super late, but...
I use gddtracker and when it was saying DS likelihood was in the >=20% range I could see a few lesions lower down in the turf, say about 1" above the soil. Running a 3" HOC that means getting on my knees and poking around to actively look for it, as opposed to waiting for it to become visually obvious. I sprayed propiconazole at the 1 oz/M rate a week ago today, and so far so good. Better to prevent than cure and DS comes around every spring for me. Smith-Kerns model predictions in the teens might be a bit early just based on my own anecdotal observations, but 20-30% range and I'd hit it for sure.

Definitely do not apply propi if you are using or plan to use any PGRs. I did that two years ago because I didn't know better and my lawn looked like *** for 6 weeks. Propi has a PGR effect of its own. IIRC that effect is slight but long lasting (like 20% for 800 GDD). It's also a bit phytotoxic in warmer weather, but I've usually rotated to other fungicides once it gets warmer anyway to target BP. If you intend to use a PGR then you will probably want to use a non-group 3 fungicide for DS.

Otherwise I've had no issues with propi at either the 1 oz or 2 oz rate. You're not going to burn the grass if you overlap a little. I always spray in the evening (just how it works with my work schedule) and it stayed on the grass for a day and a half before we got rain. There was also a low dose of urea and TG ProPhite in the tank. Totally fine.


----------



## NJ-lawn

Does anyone use a biofungicide program like Serenade? Wondering what you think as far as suppression? How often you apply and how much?


----------



## Wile

NJ-lawn said:


> Does anyone use a biofungicide program like Serenade? Wondering what you think as far as suppression? How often you apply and how much?


@jskierko I believe you use serenade.


----------



## Jeff_MI84

@ScottW thanks. I don't use PGR now so I would be good. I started paying closer attention to the blades the past week or so, thinking it was about time.


----------



## jskierko

Wile said:


> NJ-lawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone use a biofungicide program like Serenade? Wondering what you think as far as suppression? How often you apply and how much?
> 
> 
> 
> @jskierko I believe you use serenade.
Click to expand...

I do. I used Serenade exclusively in 2020. No other preventative fungicide was used. I did not have any fungal outbreaks that required action. Take that with a grain of salt though, as I killed off most of my lawn in mid July and most of my fungal issues arise later in the summer. Last season I rotated azoxy, propiconazole, and clearys as preventatives (did not incorporate Serenade) and still battled some late season fungal outbreaks. This year I am combining the Serenade with my antifungal regimen, so I will put down 2oz/K every 3 or so weeks. Ultimately it's hard to reach a conclusion given that I haven't used it exclusively for an entire season. What I saw in the half season though was promising.


----------



## NJ-lawn

jskierko said:


> Wile said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NJ-lawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone use a biofungicide program like Serenade? Wondering what you think as far as suppression? How often you apply and how much?
> 
> 
> 
> @jskierko I believe you use serenade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do. I used Serenade exclusively in 2020. No other preventative fungicide was used. I did not have any fungal outbreaks that required action. Take that with a grain of salt though, as I killed off most of my lawn in mid July and most of my fungal issues arise later in the summer. Last season I rotated azoxy, propiconazole, and clearys as preventatives (did not incorporate Serenade) and still battled some late season fungal outbreaks. This year I am combining the Serenade with my antifungal regimen, so I will put down 2oz/K every 3 or so weeks. Ultimately it's hard to reach a conclusion given that I haven't used it exclusively for an entire season. What I saw in the half season though was promising.
Click to expand...

Ok I've had some luck with Serenade also. I may continue this summer, in fact I sprayed today @2oz/k. I use a little more often. I spray every 7-10 days. It ends up being a lot of work because I like to spray by itself, without chemicals like PGR. That's why I go back and forth about going chemical route, usually chemicals are every 28 days or so.


----------



## Jeff_MI84

Applying granular fungicide a few hours after it rains, before another storm…. Yay or nay?


----------



## ajahrendt07

NJ-lawn said:


> jskierko said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wile said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jskierko I believe you use serenade.
> 
> 
> 
> I do. I used Serenade exclusively in 2020. No other preventative fungicide was used. I did not have any fungal outbreaks that required action. Take that with a grain of salt though, as I killed off most of my lawn in mid July and most of my fungal issues arise later in the summer. Last season I rotated azoxy, propiconazole, and clearys as preventatives (did not incorporate Serenade) and still battled some late season fungal outbreaks. This year I am combining the Serenade with my antifungal regimen, so I will put down 2oz/K every 3 or so weeks. Ultimately it's hard to reach a conclusion given that I haven't used it exclusively for an entire season. What I saw in the half season though was promising.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok I've had some luck with Serenade also. I may continue this summer, in fact I sprayed today @2oz/k. I use a little more often. I spray every 7-10 days. It ends up being a lot of work because I like to spray by itself, without chemicals like PGR. That's why I go back and forth about going chemical route, usually chemicals are every 28 days or so.
Click to expand...

So if I were to use serenade could I use it solely and not have to rotate? I am looking for a semi simple approach to a preventative for KBG because I am looking to start PGR. Therefore propi won't work in conjunction with PGR and I need to address common KBG diseases like DS, SP, melting out, etc.


----------



## Wile

Jeff_MI84 said:


> Applying granular fungicide a few hours after it rains, before another storm…. Yay or nay?


Usually good if a systemic. Although granular doesn't have the best coverage. Which product are you using?


----------



## Jeff_MI84

@Wile Headway G.


----------



## Wile

I believe headway should be watered in since it's propi and azoxy.


----------



## Jeff_MI84

Yes, hence wanting to do it with tonight's rain.


----------



## NJ-lawn

@ajahrendt07 that's my plan. You don't rotate it but from my experience you need to apply more often like 7-10 days and it's not a very good curative. It's mainly a preventative so you need to go the chemical route if you get an outbreak. My two cents


----------



## ajahrendt07

Ok thanks. Yea I'm new to fungicides and trying to figure out a simple plan that won't kill the bank. For what I'm seeing, using multiple modes of action on a rotation from different groups is killer cost for preventative.


----------



## Jeff_MI84

How much does Propiconazole slow the growth of grass?


----------



## Wile

Jeff_MI84 said:


> How much does Propiconazole slow the growth of grass?


When I had access to the green keeper app they estimated 10-30% depending on rate and if I remember correctly somewhere between 400-800 gdd. I was applying 1oz/M at the time.


----------



## Jeff_MI84

@Wile thanks. That'll help some, with the 2 1/8" of rain we got.


----------



## Want2BS8ed

Thanks @Wile. That is helpful. In some ways as the green keeper app has gotten more granular, some functionality no longer applies to the typical homeowner (understandable given their focus on golf courses). This is part of an exchange I had with Bill Kreuser in early April…

Me: _Headway G is still not showing up in the Total Clipping Suppression tile under Program Builder/Growth. I don't think it's just Headway G though. I tried to input future apps of Propiconazole 14.3 and Banner Maxx as a test and neither of those were showing up either._

Bill Kreuser: _I think it isn't working, because we only started to make these DMI models. They are extremely labor intensive and only have them for bentgrass greens and fairways. We are making them for bluegrass, ryegrass and bermudagrass this summer._

No mention of timing on tall fescues or roughs… in the meantime, your input was helpful in guesstimating total suppression when using with a PGR


----------



## Wile

@Want2BS8ed @Jeff_MI84 my pleasure. This is why I love TLF. Your exchange with BK is so helpful as well. Also, I was using Propiconazole 14.3 for those numbers.


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## ScottW

https://greenkeeper.blog/2020/05/05/pgr-gdd-models-v2-0/
See Table 1.
"Suppression ranged from 10-25% and duration of suppression ranged from 800-1200 GDD (based 0C)."
With propiconazole showing 3 out of 5 rating both for suppression and duration, an estimate of 20% for 1000 GDD seems like reasonable round numbers.


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## Green

ScottW said:


> https://greenkeeper.blog/2020/05/05/pgr-gdd-models-v2-0/
> See Table 1.
> "Suppression ranged from 10-25% and duration of suppression ranged from 800-1200 GDD (based 0C)."
> With propiconazole showing 3 out of 5 rating both for suppression and duration, an estimate of 20% for 1000 GDD seems like reasonable round numbers.


"The amount of suppression varies with product and application rate."

Wonder what rate that was for. We need data!


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## Jeff_MI84

Is it a bad idea to apply fungicide on a drought/ heat stressed lawn?


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## bernstem

Jeff_MI84 said:


> Is it a bad idea to apply fungicide on a drought/ heat stressed lawn?


Depends on the fungicide. In most cases it is fine, but some fungicides, such as the DMI class which includes Propiconazole, can slow growth and recovery cause some browning. Some older fungicides that are not used much anymore can also be stressful/damaging when applied in higher temperatures.

I have used Azoxystrobin, Clearys, and Velista in the heat without problems. I have used Propiconazole as well in the heat without issues, but I have also seen burned tips with it - particularly when combined with growth regulators.


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## Jeff_MI84

@bernstem thanks. I'll hold off on applying Cleary's.


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## LawnDoc16

Moderators: Please remove if not appropriate.

Besides the controversy of whether or not it should be used on residential lawns, does anyone have info on Chlorothalonil and how it relates to being applied before or after seeding? Did a blanket app of azoxy already and looking at this since it doesn't have resistance issues and is cost friendly.

Read the label a few times online and it doesn't say much about seeding. Tempting option but don't want to impact any over-seeding end of summer/early fall and obviously understand the cautions around it.


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## bernstem

Jeff_MI84 said:


> @bernstem thanks. I'll hold off on applying Cleary's.


Clearys should be fine in the heat. If you need to treat a disease, then I would apply. If it is a preventive application, then it is reasonable to wait a few days for better weather.


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## Jeff_MI84

@bernstem I gotcha. I was more curious in regard to drought stricken areas.


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## g-man

@LawnDoc16 if you buy the powder, use a respirator. Avoid walking on the grass for 24hr after dry and not barefoot. I don't love it for seeding. It coats the leaves with a white residue.


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## isuhunter

Does anyone have experience with Navicon?

I'm used to ag chemicals and the per thousand rate of this product (which is exact same as Veltyma in crop production) has a higher higher use rate per acre.


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## TheZMan

Just putting this one out there. I did Azoxy and Propi this week. 
I did it at 9pm and irrigated well before the AM sun.
Daytime temps are currently solid 85-88 and soil is 72-75.
I will report anything unusual if it happens with the Propi in the heat. I do not use PGR. I'm usually first to complain so I will note if there's any issues.


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## ScottW

isuhunter said:


> Does anyone have experience with Navicon?


No but the label says it's a 2-in-1 product containing a Group 3 and a Group 11 fungicide.
Don't know how cheap you're able to source it, but on google shopping I only see it at pestrong where a 37 oz bottle is $580. It's used at ~ 0.85 oz per 1000, so each app on my 5K lawn would cost me $66. Presumably the ag guys buying in bulk would be able to buy it for less, but if I want to combine Groups 3 + 11 I can do that a crap-ton cheaper by tank mixing propiconazole and azoxy.


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## Jeff_MI84

Has anybody heard of, or used Pinpoint? I was talking to a regional representative from Nufarm about Cleary's 3336 and he recommended Pinpoint, which is a group 11.

https://cdn.nufarm.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/2018/10/30144842/18157_Nufarm_PIB_Pinpoint_PIB_16-TO-0005.pdf


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## Riva Man

Curious, why Velista over Xzemplar on prostar. Also Group 7's. Just used Xemplar 17 days ago. Did a good job for less..?


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## Riva Man

Has anyone tried Enclave. Inexpensive and 4 groups in one. Makes me wonder if it could just be used every 14 and forget all the rest?? Any Iprodione/Chipco usedrs? It adds a entirely new group for Brown Patch. I am In Maryland and Brown Batch is a long battle year after year. This is the first year I have mostly beat it. How about Armada as your 3 & 11 combo. Mixing Pro and Azoxy gets expensive as a 3 &11. Last question also regarding 3 & 11. Anyone used Pillar SC yet? Site One is jumping up and down about it..


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## Riva Man

By the way for 336 users Talaris is 46% and is $185 At Do My Own


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## viper00085

Riva Man said:


> Has anyone tried Enclave. Inexpensive and 4 groups in one. Makes me wonder if it could just be used every 14 and forget all the rest?? Any Iprodione/Chipco usedrs? It adds a entirely new group for Brown Patch. I am In Maryland and Brown Batch is a long battle year after year. This is the first year I have mostly beat it. How about Armada as your 3 & 11 combo. Mixing Pro and Azoxy gets expensive as a 3 &11. Last question also regarding 3 & 11. Anyone used Pillar SC yet? Site One is jumping up and down about it..


Never used Enclave per se, but have some Chipco 26019/26GT in my arsenal and mix it with 3336F as a rotation partner to my Strobin/DMI mix. Does a great job against Brown Patch, red thread and leafspot/melting out type targets. Lacks against GLS and hence the 3336F partner. Back in my golf days, 26GT, 3336F and Daconil was a common and effective app.

I am a Pillar SC/G fan, as I have used BASFs Lexicon for a while which has that same pyraclostrobin in it and its really solid against Brown patch. Throw that newer conzale formulation in their and it should be a winner, heard its less harsh on the turf in heat vs traditional ppz.


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## Riva Man

One last question . Some of you are beating Brown Patch with only 2 groups of products being rotated?


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## Riva Man

I mean using only two groups of two to rotate. Like 3 & 11 then 1 & 7 back and forth?


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## Scagfreedom48z+

Regarding xzemplar, does it need to be watered in right away or left on the leaf blade for 24 hours? I tried find this and can't seem to get the answer


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## Riva Man

No. And I have ended this round of Xzemplar. Good for 14 days but not curative of the few spots of BP I had. By day 18 I had a BP disaster. Just put down Lesco Twosome heavily Sunday.


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## Riva Man

3&11 is next. Has to be a cheaper way to do 3 & 11.


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## NJ-lawn

I noticed what seems to be dollar spot……I do weekly apps of serenade but with the conditions being right for dollar spot it's been hard to control/ prevent.

I also been spraying pgr all season and due for another app on Saturday. Little concerned treating the fungus and keeping the pgr going at same time. Should I stop pgr for now and concentrate on the dollar spot?

I have Propiconazole and Clearys 3336. Since I do not use chemical fungicides very often, when should I irrigate? Before app or how long after?


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## Wile

I would plan to irrigate right after if you can with systemics. Buffer your solution down to 5-6pH to keep its effectiveness from being nullified by hard water. If you're on a pgr, or plan to be, start with the Clearys for 14 days and then rotate to the propiconazole for 14 if the model is still high. While on propi drop the pgr or do a much lower rate of pgr. If the damage is really bad I would stop pgr for a bit.


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## Overtaxed

> Has to be a cheaper way to do 3 & 11.


Abound is shockingly cheaper than the lawn labeled versions of azoxy:
https://www.keystonepestsolutions.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=320&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp320&sc_intid=320&gclid=CjwKCAjw0dKXBhBPEiwA2bmObYAhnuHVs5KQlZcCP205WALlS5tXDlvHwub5ioUjqRI2dwJfOipC9xoC-14QAvD_BwE

I combine that with prop:
https://www.domyown.com/prime-source-ppz-418-fungicide-p-12192.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw0dKXBhBPEiwA2bmObRBNcjZRsCTXS7qg_cFshRD1ypmKXaeHKPmYmGJUavVBTBm2WKt09RoCtX4QAvD_BwE

Cost per app is pretty darn low when you go this way. Abound works out to about $1/per 1K sq/ft each application (200 bucks for 128 oz; I use .77oz/1K when I spray). Prop is almost exactly the same (200/gallon, I typically use .7oz/1K).

Total price comes out around $2/1K/application. That's pretty darn reasonable, IMHO. If you try to use the lawn labeled azoxy, the price is a whole lot higher.

Also, for those that don't know, Velista is also available as an ag chemical under the brand name Fontelis:
https://www.keystonepestsolutions.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=594&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp594&sc_intid=594&gclid=CjwKCAjw0dKXBhBPEiwA2bmObeEcn54J5lCx0RF_Moehz62w6mYnJsgpS9XG63mE3rdBK6GcseROUxoCoKoQAvD_BwE

That can get you a 3/7/11 for a pretty reasonable cost. Just make sure you do the conversations on Fontelis, it's not a 1-1 with Velista (17%AI vs 50%AI, IIRC).


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## Riva Man

Twosome is doing very well so far. Good curative. Some of the BP areas that got away are bouncing back already. I like the thought of 3/7/11 but in using three groups I would only have Twosome to rotate with. I have this rotation of three stuck in my mind. I am thinking Twosome (1/2), 3/11 then just seven next year. But it could change overnight. Seeing that I can't go past 14 days with Xzemplar pushes me to Velista likely, or Prostar. A few extra days is a good thing. Especially if it rains on 14, 15 and 16. On the 3/11 I do wonder about newer strobins and zoles as far as purely for BP. I believe someone alreay commented on the newr ones being better. Now, back to spraying my wiregrass with Pxlex....Best product ever.


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## Jeff_MI84

Can/ would you spray Xzemplar after mowing? I would think no, but it's not like Propiconazole.


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## Riva Man

Zero Tol. I remember Suburban Jungle showing this as part of his fungus program. He used it alone and twice in a row. Anyone else used this. I haven't found anyone using it but it says Brown Patch and Dollar Spot. And it is cheap.


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## e_dawg

Sorry if this has been covered already in this thread, but I read through the first 7 pages and didn't see it.

Are you supposed to just treat the area(s) that are noticeably affected, or should you treat the entire lawn?

My mowing service mowed our lawn before I was able to get the fungicide.


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## bernstem

@e_dawg I would treat the whole yard in most cases. Mowing and lawn care can spread disease so you don't want to leave untreated areas.


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## e_dawg

Would it be okay to use a curative dose for the noticeably affected areas and a lower preventative dose for the rest of the lawn?

Or go full blast for the entire lawn?


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## bernstem

@e_dawg either is fine. Depends how much disease pressure you think there is in the unaffected areas, and how much pressure there will be in the near term.


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## Green

Anyone know how long Propiconazole 14.3 at the 1oz rate typically works to prevent Rust? Can I get a month out of it?


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## e_dawg

Many thanks @bernstem .


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## LawnOCDfanatic

I did a Reno 30 days ago of KBG and RPR. At seed down I applied diseaseEX. I just had 4 straight days of rain, so I’m a little worried about the RPR. Would propiconizol be a good app now? Thanks


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## SNOWBOB11

I’ve used propi on a reno at close to that 30 day mark and it’s worked for me.


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## LawnOCDfanatic

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Sample preventive fungicide program with 4 MOA:
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days (labelled for 21 days but that didn't work for me)
> Thiophanate-methyl 14 days
> Flutolanil 14 days
> 
> 3 MOA:
> Azoxystrobin 28 days
> Propiconazole 14 days
> Thiophanate-methyl 14 days


I ordered Bionide Infuse (Thiophanate) granular. Says It should prevent for 4 weeks. I’m getting it for Rye Grass to prevent GLS as this I believe is the time of year it is susceptible. You mentioned 14 days. What do you think?


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## lawn_error

I’m in the transition zone and am putting together a preventative fungicide plan/rotation for my Reno. My question this fall is when are you OK to stop applying? I’d assume you base on soil temp but what is the cut off? For instance can we assume if soil temps are below 60 for a week we’re okay to stop applying? Or would you just base the plan on calendar date/ first freeze then make adjustments based on the weather ?


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## confused_boner

It really depends on the specific pest/disease you are currently trying to prevent/cure. 

Each one is unique in terms of what conditions will lead to it being or becoming more of a threat.

This article has a really good breakdown of common turf diseases caused by fungi towards the bottom if you scroll down: 

Lawn Diseases: Prevention and Management Guidelines--UC IPM (ucanr.edu)


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## lawn_error

So there are parts of my lawn that have a lot of moisture due to springs. I know the longer term solution is to tap it and route the water around the yard (apparently something that had been done at the house years ago, but the spring house was filled in). I’m looking to do preventative in the meantime to try and establish the turf. It would be okay if an area doesn’t make it, it’s a bigger property, but would like to keep it in check for the first year or two. The seed mix might as well be a blue note KBG monostand (>80%) other varietals are bolt, quantum leap, and legend. I have product on hand to do the recommended 3 group rotation suggested at the start of this guide.


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## ThickAndGreen

Is it okay to put down Azoxy two times in a row if it's spread out a month and a half? Or do you need to rotate no matter how long in between applications?


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## Jeff_MI84

For Propiconazole 14.3, what temperature is too low to apply it? If I spray it when it is in the upper 40’s and it gets down to the upper 30’s the next morning, is it okay?


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