# Scott's Winterguard Weed and Feed?



## doodah12 (Oct 1, 2020)

I've recently started a new lawn, about 6 weeks now, and it's growing in pretty well, haven't done the first mow yet. 
Will probably mow within 2 weeks, and then will fertilize with Scott's Winterguard.
I'm inclined to use the weed and feed version, but my neighbor thinks I should use the regular version without weed control.
Any opinions??
Thanks!


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

How tall is your new grass? 6 weeks is a long time not to have mowed. New grass should be cut once it gets just over 2" and needs to be cut frequently to promote growth.

What's the weather like where you are? It's getting late in the season to be feeding. I'm going to guess that you should have started feeding a few weeks ago.

Ideally you want a fast release source of nitrogen. I would skip the weed and feed.


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## GrassOnTheHills (Jul 3, 2020)

Harts said:


> How tall is your new grass? 6 weeks is a long time not to have mowed. New grass should be cut once it gets just over 2" and needs to be cut frequently to promote growth.
> 
> What's the weather like where you are? It's getting late in the season to be feeding. I'm going to guess that you should have started feeding a few weeks ago.
> 
> Ideally you want a fast release source of nitrogen. I would skip the weed and feed.


OP, I agree on all counts here. Even with KBG I imagine you would have mowed a couple times by now. Personally I am 35 DAG on my last bit of overseeding on my reno and I am not planning to do any herbicides. Weed pressure isn't that bad for me though. I will tackle what's left in the Spring. My only real gambling is that I did not do any pre-M to combat poa annua, so we'll see how bad that bites me in the butt.


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## doodah12 (Oct 1, 2020)

I read this online:

For new grass you want to be sure the grass has reached at least 3 ½ inches in height, if not more, before cutting for the first time. This should take about 8 weeks, so be patient! When you are able to cut for the first time, you will want to make sure you follow good cutting techniques and mow high.
Backyard Boss › how-long-after-pla...
How Long After Planting Grass Seed Can I Mow? - Backyard Boss

That's why I've waited to mow for the first time, is this wrong?


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## SOLARSUPLEX (Aug 4, 2020)

For what its worth, weed and feed has 2,4-D and Mecoprop-p. 2,4-D is a common herbicide and one that i sprayed on my 'newish' lawn without any negative impact. I'm unsure on how Mecoprop-p would interfere with new turf.

From scotts website: Delay application on newly seeded, sodded or sprigged areas until new grass has been mowed 4 times.

I'd pass and plan to attack weeds early spring - A lot will die off in the winter anyway.

Since you are in NJ and get snow, i'd get out there and cut it once at 2/3 of whatever height it is now, and then 2/3 of that height again next week. I assume you have not been spoon feeding nitrogen since you are asking about fertilizer. Not sure if its too late in the season for any N to get into the plant, but its so cheap its worth trying.


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## doodah12 (Oct 1, 2020)

Thanks, I'll mow shortly.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

doodah12 said:


> I read this online:
> 
> For new grass you want to be sure the grass has reached at least 3 ½ inches in height, if not more, before cutting for the first time. This should take about 8 weeks, so be patient! When you are able to cut for the first time, you will want to make sure you follow good cutting techniques and mow high.
> Backyard Boss › how-long-after-pla...
> ...


This is where my recommendation came from: https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ay/ay-3-w.pdf

One of the biggest mistakes you can make is waiting too long to cut. IMO and that of Purdue Univ, waiting for the grass to get to 3.5" counter productive. New grass needs to be cut early and frequently to promote tillering and growth.

Cutting back new grass to approx. 2" for the first 3-4 mows helps to spur more growth. After that, you can adjust to your normal HOC.

My advice would be to cut it now and apply nitrogen. I wouldn't wait a few more weeks. Especially in NE US. You really don't have much time left in your growing season.


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## doodah12 (Oct 1, 2020)

So Scott's normal Turf Builder which is 32-0-4, would be OK?


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## doodah12 (Oct 1, 2020)

I'm confused about which fertilizer to use now.
I read this about fall fertilizers :
'In September, your lawn will be in recovery mode. A good dose of nitrogen rich fertilizer is just what's needed. A 20-8-8 will give it that slow growth. Be sure to apply fertilizer again in late fall with 13-25-12. The extra phosphorus will stimulate root growth late into the season.' 
So should I just go with 13-25-12??


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## VALawnNoob (Jun 9, 2020)

doodah12 said:


> So Scott's normal Turf Builder which is 32-0-4, would be OK?


if this is the yellow bag, doesnt it have herbicide in it? make sure u dont use the wrong one incorrectly on new grass


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## SOLARSUPLEX (Aug 4, 2020)

You're really aiming for nitrogen with this application. Nitrogen is the first number in each of the X-X-X labels.

Its possible to achieve the same level of nitrogen on the lawn from a 10-10-10 as it is a 20-8-8, however the former product will require physically twice as much to be applied to the lawn. For new cool season lawns, the typical rule of thumb is .25lb of nitrogen per 1000sq/ft per week as a ramp up. The physical amount of product you need to drop to achieve that nitrogen level will be entirely dependent on the ratio of nitrogen in your bag. Getting into things, there are different types of nitrogen which you can read and watch videos about to better understand. The short answer is quick release and slow release which have their own sets of pros and cons.

You're signature says you have 1000 sqft, so to get 1lb of nitrogen on the lawn in this application and using the 32-0-4, you need roughly 3lb of product in your spreader to get that level. I believe the normal scott turf builder does not have an herbicide so you dont risk damaging anything. The yellow weed & Feed is the one with the herbicide.

I'd also caution reading into the information scotts puts out, remember their goal - Marketing to sell product. Learn through the cold season forum what is necessary for your specific situation and follow the plan.


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## doodah12 (Oct 1, 2020)

Thanks!


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## doodah12 (Oct 1, 2020)

Sorry, I'm confused again. 
So, the Scott's regular turf builder all season fertilizer is 32-0-4.
So, youre saying to fertilize how much every week?


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## SOLARSUPLEX (Aug 4, 2020)

Have a look in here: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16808

Specifically this section:

14 days after germination (DAG) - Apply a fast nitrogen source (eg. urea, AMS) at a low rate (0.2lb of N/ksqft).
21 days after germination- look for no germination zones and apply more seeds if needed. Start tweaking the irrigation to go a little longer and less frequent. Again, all based on your weather.
28 DAG - Apply tenacity (4oz/acre rate no nis) and it depends on the weed pressure.
28 DAG - another spoon feeding of nitrogen and maybe some milo.
around 28 DAG or whenever the grass is above 2in in height - mow at 1.5 to 2in. Yes be careful in the turns but it will be fine. Let the soil dry a hair before mowing. A manual light weight push reel mower helps. Keep mowing at this height for ~4 weeks. Keeping it below the 2in mark helps the grass to grow tilers and spread.
45 days - more nitrogen as needed. Keep using a fast nitrogen source.
60 days - Apply a PreM (prodiamine). Continue feeding the lawn and add P and K if your soil needs it.
Herbicides and PreM after seeding


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

I would seriously read the cool season guide and associated links - reno guide, over seed guide and fall N blitz.

This time of year, urea or ammonium sulfate are the best options. The are quick release nitrogen sources. No phosphorus and no potassium. Given how late it is, use whatever you have that isn't weed and feed then check out the cool season guide this Winter. Lots of information that might be confusing at first but will give you a solid foundation going into 2021.

I would aim for 0.5lb N of whatever fert you have.


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## always_creative (Aug 28, 2020)

deleted


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## doodah12 (Oct 1, 2020)

Thanks for all the help


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

There are many sources of advice on the internet. Plenty of guides to read and some might conflict each other.

One of the benefits of this forum is that you can see the journals of the members giving you advice. Some of us post details on every product and rate we use. You see the good and the bad via all the progress pictures. Therefore if the journal shows a good looking lawn in a similar weather than yours, then I think it is a good bet to follow the advice of that member.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

^+1


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

always_creative said:


> What is the source of this? The idea that extra phosphorus will stimulate late season root growth is not supported by research, and there is evidence that it makes winter damage worse. See page two here: https://turf.unl.edu/turfinfo/Fall%20Fertilization.pdf


Potassium? Didn't see Phos mentioned at all.


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## always_creative (Aug 28, 2020)

Green said:


> always_creative said:
> 
> 
> > What is the source of this? The idea that extra phosphorus will stimulate late season root growth is not supported by research, and there is evidence that it makes winter damage worse. See page two here: https://turf.unl.edu/turfinfo/Fall%20Fertilization.pdf
> ...


Comment deleted, my brain wasn't working when I wrote it


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