# Arden 15 putting green test plot



## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

It seems like almost everyone on this website has reel cut bermuda so I had to see for myself what all the hubbub is about. I haven't seen any bermuda in my neck of SWF, so i've never even inspected a bermuda lawn up close in person. Before making any kind of switch from my St. Aug, which is slowly coming along nicely, I wanted to spend a season with some bermuda.

Until last year this whole side lot was very thick with hundreds of Brazilian pepper trees. I spent months with a chainsaw, then dug out the stumps of the big trees (by hand). The ground is coarse sand filled with coral boulders, rocks, seashells and trash. I hear that 50 years ago neighborhood kids used to hang out and fish here, and I found a lot of their trash and lead sinkers.

The "green" is only going to be about 300sf. Rather than just planting a square blob of grass I decided to shape it like what a putting green may look like, although I don't think I'll be cutting it low enough to putt on. I'm thinking of starting it at 3/4" and go from there, which will still look enough like a green next to 4" St. Aug.

First I raked the plot down about 6" to remove all the junk. In just this small area I removed thousands of pounds of rock of all sizes and added it to my rip-rap seawall. Just a small percent of it:





Then I spent weeks spraying glyphosate, lightly raking to expose new weed seeds and pebbles, watering daily...rinse repeat many times. Here is my only grounds crew that helps daily, #Floridaproblems.



This morning I finally seeded! I scratched the surface with a leaf rake, put down a half pound of seed, lightly went over the area with the back of the leaf rake, then spread a dusting of peat moss. I walked over the area to press everything down and then watered. Have my timer set to 5min every hour in the middle of the day and will cut that back at night. My test pots starting germinating on day 4 and I'm hoping for the same here.


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## Bamadmbfan (Oct 15, 2018)

Keep us posted. I'm currently redoing my green now. Ill be interested to see how the Arden green turns out!


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

Will do @Bamadmbfan!

I waited for a dry period to seed, but this is Florida so I staked down one side of a 25' X 25' tarp just in case I had to roll it out quickly. And tonight a huge storm came through so I rolled it out. I planned on "tenting" it to keep the airflow going but the wind was too high and I just had to gett'er done. It's been on 1 hour now and as soon as this passes I'll pull it off immediately. I'm expecting some germination very soon (tonight) so this was the worst possible timing. I didn't want to do it but it beats the alternative, I think. We got about 3" of rain so far in 1 hour.


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

The tarp was filling up fast and I was afraid of the water rushing back under it, so I put a sump pump in the lowest part, my soon-to-be sand trap. It's filling as fast as it's pumping, but it'll work.

It's watering the stubborn crabgrass I sprayed with gly last week...


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

4 hours later I finally just pulled the tarp. Still raining but the heavy stuff is hopefully gone. lost the pump for 30 minutes when we lost power. Looks ok with my headlamp, will have to see tomorrow in the daylight.

Note to self: If I ever decide to seed my whole lawn...DON'T do it in the rainy season!


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

Day 4: The day started out great. I woke up to find about 10% of the seeds germinated. There was no damage from the tarping last night. Every hour it seemed like the amount of grass popping up doubled. By noon I'd say at least 75% germinated.

Then a band of rain popped up on the radar headed my way. It was a thin band and moving fast, so I figured we'd get some rain for 5 minutes. I didn't want to crush or smother the new grass so i decided not to tarp it. Bad idea. As the storms crossed the harbor they grew 5X the size, and it poured for almost an hour, dumping inches of rain. The sand and peat moss washed all over the place, and filled up my sand trap. Surprisingly, half the grass survived, but I'm disgusted at the unevenness of the surface now. Worst part is another bigger storm is about to hit. Going to try and tent it.


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

Earlier tonite:



Tarp is off for the night. I was just out with the flashlight (it's actually easier to see the tiny grass blades at night with a light at the right angle) and it seems salvageable.

It's supposed to storm the next few days...

I'm gonna make this work somehow.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

What about getting one of those pop up tent/canopy things that people take to the beach or tailgating or whatever? I think I saw them at Sam's club recently, and amazon has them. The one we have, you can leave it so the legs are only half height, which might keep the area dryer. Or I know some people lay burlap down on top of the seeded area - lets the water through but the rough fabric traps the seed I guess? 
https://www.****ssportinggoods.com/p/quest-q64-10-x-10-instant-up-canopy-19queuq6410x10nstodr/19queuq6410x10nstodr?camp=CSESG_92700045481649679_pla_pla-345237809213&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=CjwKCAjwm4rqBRBUEiwAwaWjjNBwxwAFMlL8rd_R6pLjA4cupMtexZvl4uHl5L034zciXi37zffiMRoC_nEQAvD_BwE


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

I thought about the 10x20 carports, but i'd need two to cover the area. I'm just hoping the roots can hold things in place soon.

Things this morning look better than I feared, with baby grass covering about 80% of the area. There is going to be a lot of rain and not much sun today and tomorrow...not sure if the roots can handle it yet.


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

You've got live bermuda in that area now. That means you will need to drown it in glyphosate if you ever decide you DON'T want it there. IMO keep on what you're doing, but don't stress out about it too much.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Yeah, glyphosate did pretty well at killing my Bahia off, as opposed to the wild bermuda that resurrects from the ashes over and over again, lol. I still have some Bahia issues, but that's from the seeds being blown in from all the neighbors I think, not coming back from where I killed it. At least, I assume so, because the Bahia I get now is small, seedling like, not coming up from stolons/rhizomes with deep roots like the bermuda that keeps coming back.


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

adgattoni said:


> You've got live bermuda in that area now. That means you will need to drown it in glyphosate if you ever decide you DON'T want it there. IMO keep on what you're doing, but don't stress out about it too much.


Haha, that's what I hear. I'm more worried about the dirt becoming so uneven I won't be able to use a reel mower during grow-in. I assume I can't add sand and level for quite a while?


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## Coldsprings (Jul 16, 2019)

I read something from a guy who was trying to germinate zoysia. He used clear poly to basically create a green house over the seeded sections of his lawn. Used bricks to keep the edges in place and I believe some of that black drainage pipe to keep some air space between soil and plastic.


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

Coldsprings said:


> I read something from a guy who was trying to germinate zoysia. He used clear poly to basically create a green house over the seeded sections of his lawn. Used bricks to keep the edges in place and I believe some of that black drainage pipe to keep some air space between soil and plastic.


That is similar to how I germinate potted seeds, I just water once and cover with saran wrap. But once it starts germinating the plastic has to come off. I don't see why it can't be done for lawn seed, just need a huge tarp. I don't think seeds need light so I don't think it has to be clear.


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

Day 9: Growth has seemed to stall the last few days. The new grass is very visible in the dark areas the rain washed all the peat moss (and probably seed) into. There is plenty of grass in the lighter sandy areas but still very hard to see. It ain't looking too pretty, but after nonstop rain storms the past week I guess things could be worse. I am afraid to walk on it yet to pull the weeds...should I be?

My test pots, which were planted 5 days earlier, needed their first "mow" yesterday as they were getting near 2"! So I'm hoping for an explosion of growth in the next few days. Weird thing is, the test pots without any fert grew much faster than the ones with a bit of fert. I added more fert to the pots yesterday to see the reaction before giving the green any more.



Bobcat checking out my work this morning:


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## Coldsprings (Jul 16, 2019)

My Arden was painfully slow during the first 2 weeks but then it explodes after that. I suspect it uses the first bit of energy to develop roots. As far as walking on it, I walked on mine every day for weed roundup.


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

Thanks @Coldsprings , good to know. I'' wait a few days and start pulling. Most of the weeds are some type of vine that doesn't spread out so i'm not in too much of a rush. Got some either spurge or Florida pusley coming up but is too small to easily grab and pull yet.


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

Day 12: The torrential rains finally slowed, and the sun even started coming out on day 10. I'm happy with the progress the past few days. I pulled my beat up Scotts reel out of the shed, gave her a backlapping and set the HOC to about 1"...it won't be long till I need it.

A lot of seed was washed out from some areas and I was going to add some more seed, but I decided to wait and see how it fills in on it's own first. Doing a small area like this first is teaching me a lot about what to do and what not to do when and if I do my front lawn. I have new respect for those of you who seeded large areas!


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

@Coldsprings @LawnRat

Yep I agree with Coldsprings.

My Arden 15 and Princess 77 Bermuda both germinated and sat still for a couple of weeks...then they took off.

When I spoke to Pennington last year they advised me that Princess 77 would sit for a while before spreading. Arden 15 is a better version of Princess 77 and is suppose to establish a little faster.

If you look at the NTEP studies on Princess 77 ...if you look at the 30,60 and 90 day establishment periods...Princess 77 was always lagging behind most cultivars until around the end of the season and then it catchs up.

The good news is Princess 77 was one of "if not the most" dense of the seeded cultivars, I believe going off memory.

Your lawn will look fantastic around day 60!


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

Motherboard fried on my posting laptop and it took a week for the replacement so here is a summary of the progress.

After a couple days of sun and a growth spurt I had to start mowing on day 13. The grass is growing about 1/2 inch a day so daily mowing and bagging is necessary. Problem was I didn't have a grass catcher bag, and I wasn't impressed with the crappy ones on amazon so I made my own out of an old Tupperware drawer (in last pic). It clips on in a second and works well!

Day 16: Started to tiller and spread!



Day 19: Starting to fill in some washed out spots



Day 22:



Day 25, today: Missed yesterday's mow and had to take off much more than 1/3rd of the blades right before this pic . Considering we only had a few sunny days and daily rain storms since day 4 it is coming along nicely. Not too much weed pressure yet but I pulled more than usual the last couple days so I'm hoping to be fully filled in and thickened up soon.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

This looks great. Thanks for the Arden 15 update.


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## Coldsprings (Jul 16, 2019)

Looking good! Really curious to see how the Arden does below 1/2inch. I am down to 5/8 inch on mine and it handles it well.


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

Day 31:

The grass is spreading well beyond my planned green, which was expected of course. I'm planning on cutting the green low with the reel, then get a second cheap push reel for a slightly higher fringe area when it grows in. Surrounding that is all kinds of weeds/tree seedlings that most lawn books never mention...cause most are the crazy invasive forest trying hard to reclaim the area! Little Brazilian pepper trees, palm trees, mimosas, air potatoes, all kinds of vines...and all the usual baaaad lawn weeds. Mowing this crap with my side discharge tractor is just throwing their seeds everywhere.

My plan now is to gly the area (~2k sf), smooth the ground a bit, and throw down the rest of my seed (only a half pound, so It's going to take a while to fill in). I'm not going to go too nuts prepping the ground because it's only going to be mowed once a week with the tractor in the 2" range. I'm curious how it will look at that height with the low cut green in the middle.

Notice the area on the right in the first pic where the tarp was folded up for about two weeks. It still is weed free almost 3 weeks after removing the tarp. Seems it got all the weed seeds to germinate from the heat and killed them off good....much better than 4 rounds of gly did!


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Since you only have 1/2 lb of seed, and are going to be cutting it higher and maintaining a distinction between that and the green, would it make sense to buy a bit of cheaper bermuda seed to do that area? Just a thought, since seeding at a low rate may mean more weed issues as it grows in. I think you can get 5lbs of La Prima XD for like $30.


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## justin144 (Jul 27, 2019)

Next spring I'm going to try killing some of my Common Bermuda and planting Arden and see if the common creeps back in or the Arden creeps out.


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

ktgrok said:


> Since you only have 1/2 lb of seed, and are going to be cutting it higher and maintaining a distinction between that and the green, would it make sense to buy a bit of cheaper bermuda seed to do that area? Just a thought, since seeding at a low rate may mean more weed issues as it grows in. I think you can get 5lbs of La Prima XD for like $30.


Thanks for the suggestion. I thought about it, but just in case I convert my st aug lawn to Ar15 I don't want multiple strains that might cause problems in the future. Seed, no matter how expensive, will be the cheapest investment with the longest benefit...or longest headache, over the life of the lawn...and I don't want to do something I may regret later.

I'm not going to worry about the weeds in the new seeding area for a while. I just want some grass there that can eventually fill in. Right now, killing weeds in the area means bare dirt, since it is 100% weeds. I figure I'll hit the area with some cheap selective weed killer in the fall or spring and the bermuda can do the rest.

Next week I'm going to give the "fringe" area a dose of Celsius + probably dismiss and see how it takes it. If it harms it no big deal. I'm not going to seed the new area too close to the old for this reason, I'll let them grow together over time.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Gotcha, that makes sense.


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## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

Very cool project! And that DIY catcher is pretty great, too.


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

Chocolate Lab said:


> Very cool project! And that DIY catcher is pretty great, too.


Thanks! The catcher is funny looking...like a drawer on wheels, cause that's what it is. But hey, it works .

The goal of this project is to do everything wrong and see if I can still get it to turn out somewhat good. <--Story of my life!


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## Solisesc (May 27, 2019)

Your catcher is absolutely awesome  I did buy the shitty one from Amazon long ago, and after seeing yours I'm going to copy your idea but add a top to it so the grass doesn't fly when I'm cutting fast  Thanks for the idea, it's great!!

Btw, I'm killing my 2 lawns right now (backyard and frontyard) in order to plant Arden 15 this spring. I planted common bermuda last year, so I'm no expert, but it was good learning because I planted 3 different zones at 3 different times and with 3 different methods and I've learned a lot through the year, so I'm up to the challenge now  I'll keep you updated


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

@LawnRat How's the green looking now? Great project!


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

Solisesc said:


> Your catcher is absolutely awesome  I did buy the s--- one from Amazon long ago, and after seeing yours I'm going to copy your idea but add a top to it so the grass doesn't fly when I'm cutting fast  Thanks for the idea, it's great!!
> 
> Btw, I'm killing my 2 lawns right now (backyard and frontyard) in order to plant Arden 15 this spring. I planted common bermuda last year, so I'm no expert, but it was good learning because I planted 3 different zones at 3 different times and with 3 different methods and I've learned a lot through the year, so I'm up to the challenge now  I'll keep you updated


Thanks! How did your catcher turn out? I picked up a larger push reel and now I have to make a new one.


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

cglarsen said:


> @LawnRat How's the green looking now? Great project!


Thanks for asking @cglarsen . It looked great most of the fall, and ok much of the winter, but... I haven't done much with it yet this year because we haven't had a drop of rain since December...crazy for SWF. I've been doing very minimal watering (I'm cheap and lazy) so it's burnt up. Cutting it at about 1.25" with the tractor so far this year, which also scalps in spots. When we start getting rain I'll get a little more serious. Yesterday I sprayed the walkway between the Arden and the STA with gly. My plan is to keep shifting that walkway towards the grass I don't want to keep until it's gone.

That patch of Floratam on the left was started with a few sprigs late last year, and it handles these desert-like conditions much better than the Arden. Spreads faster too. I'm starting to see the answer to why not many people down here in SW Florida grow bermuda lawns...we are lazy people and want a lazy-man's grass!


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