# My choice of seed for fall reno - opinions



## Stegs (Aug 29, 2017)

After reading many threads about hogan seed company, i decided to give them a call yesterday. I spoke with a guy named steve.

Told him what i had going, where i lived, and that i had irrigation.

He suggested the following seed for me based on my zip code here in Michigan

He suggested a 80% TTTF and a 20% KBG blend

The TTTF is made up of 5 different culitvars :
1.Rockwell
2. Rebounder
3.ls1200
4.GTO
5. Hotrod

The KBG is made up of 4 different types

1. everglade
2. nuglade
3. award
4. midnight

I told him about my brown patch i had in my Turf Gem II seed, and told him i was a little leary about more TTTF and dealing with brown patch all the time

He asked me about my mowing height. I told him i did around 3.75 to 4"

His reply was "well there is your problem, I bet it layed down when you mowed and thats where your disease started" (he was absolutely right

he told me all these TTTF cultivars should be mowed no more than 3" where i live with irrigation. This blend of seed has a suggested mowing height of 2.5 to 3" max in the summer heat

Anyway, what do you guys think? Never used hogan seed before, and its pretty pricey vs what i can get locally.....but these seem to be all top ranked cultivars

Your opinions?


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## fusebox7 (Jul 27, 2017)

Stegs said:


> After reading many threads about hogan seed company, i decided to give them a call yesterday. I spoke with a guy named steve.
> 
> Told him what i had going, where i lived, and that i had irrigation.
> 
> ...


Not sure why they suggested the TTTF/KBG blend... maybe to be "safe". But more importantly not sure why the 4 different Midnight types of KBG... maybe someone else can chime in on that. Personally (and many others will tell you this in Michigan) KBG will go the furthest for you. If you irrigate and feed it occasionally, it's going to perform the best. No winterkill, very good summer (drought) dormancy and no need to overseed, ever. EVER!  Also, the newer KBG cultivars adapt to many cutting heights and will perform highly at them... I've had mine from 7/8" to over 5 inches (and in some places it's 12"!) and it's still dark green and showing no signs of disease (no fungicides) ::knock on wood::


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## Stegs (Aug 29, 2017)

thats kinda what i was thinking.

I can get a mix locally. well 2 different mixes actually

1 mix is 40% KBG (made up of bonaire, brooklawn and waterworks) and 60% PRG (which is Vip 3)

the other mix is the same seed, but with 70% KBG and 30% VIP 3 PRG

Either of these mixes is quite a bit cheaper (over 200 dollars cheaper and i get more LBS of seed.)

I want to make TTTF work, but i dont like the fact it needs to be overseeded yearly.

Im guessing he was planning on the hogan mix with 20% KBG would be aggressive enough to limit the overseeding??


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## fusebox7 (Jul 27, 2017)

Stegs said:


> thats kinda what i was thinking.
> 
> I can get a mix locally. well 2 different mixes actually
> 
> ...


Maybe someone with a larger lawn can chime in. For me, I went 100% KBG since I have full (almost) irrigation coverage and 7500 sq ft. of lawn. You have over 4x that so I can understand wanting a quicker germinating species (TTTF/PRG) but I guess it just depends on how finicky you'll end up being with how it looks once established  In full retrospect as much as I love my 3-way KBG stand, I'd probably do a monostand if I could do it again (since turf uniformity is an unrivaled trait in my opinion).

Everyone has different priorities so if yours is safeguarding the full establishment then go with your gut on the TTTF/KBG mix that Hogan recommended. Their suggestions are pretty unanimously accepted from what I've seen on the forums.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

How much sun fo you get? When I talked to Hogans thats one of the topics we talked about. I get full sun in my backyard thats why i went with thier kbg blend. He saud it wouldn't fo well in shady areas...needed at least 6 hours of sun to fo its best.


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## Stegs (Aug 29, 2017)

Each has its pros and cons.
Long term goals is a dark green lawn, that can handle the sun/heat and not need constant fungicide applications

TTTF seems like that would be a no brainer, but from what im reading, it sounds like these new varieties of KBG can handle alot more heat/drought and still be aggresive growers


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## Stegs (Aug 29, 2017)

JDgreen18 said:


> How much sun fo you get? When I talked to Hogans thats one of the topics we talked about. I get full sun in my backyard thats why i went with thier kbg blend. He saud it wouldn't fo well in shady areas...needed at least 6 hours of sun to fo its best.


this area im doing is a gradual slope away from my house, down to my barn

It gets sun just about all day until late in the day.

I told him i have about 6" of topsoil and then about 30 feet of sand.....literally. I live on a dune

Maybe thats why he leaned more towards TTTF....it would have a better chance getting that south west sun??

I got a phone call into BOB that works at hogan. Im going to see if he cant price me out something like a 60/40 blend of KBG and PRG....maybe stay away from more TTTF.

My local guy that i normally get seed from, well his price for 200lbs of 70% KBG and 30% PRG is 490 dollars. almost 200 less than hogan and its bonair, brooklawn and waterworks.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Stegs said:


> I want to make TTTF work, but i dont like the fact it needs to be overseeded yearly.
> 
> Im guessing he was planning on the hogan mix with 20% KBG would be aggressive enough to limit the overseeding??


I have a TTTF (Hogan blend) & KBG backyard that I reno'd back in 2014 and haven't overseeded since. :thumbup:


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## Stegs (Aug 29, 2017)

ericgautier said:


> Stegs said:
> 
> 
> > I want to make TTTF work, but i dont like the fact it needs to be overseeded yearly.
> ...


May I ask what your % of each were? was it 80% TTTF and 20% KBG? or more KBG


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## SJ Lawn (May 7, 2018)

Stegs said:


> JDgreen18 said:
> 
> 
> > How much sun fo you get? When I talked to Hogans thats one of the topics we talked about. I get full sun in my backyard thats why i went with thier kbg blend. He saud it wouldn't fo well in shady areas...needed at least 6 hours of sun to fo its best.
> ...


Is the seed from your local guy "clean" ?

PRG may be suffer winterkill in your area.

The 4 KBG cultivars in Hogan's suggested mix are very highly rated per NTEP trials.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Stegs said:


> May I ask what your % of each were? was it 80% TTTF and 20% KBG? or more KBG


Aprox. 8000 SQ FT
45 lbs TTTF (Bullseye, Turbo, Hemi, Falcon V & Faith)
9 lbs KBG (Bewitched, Blueberry & Prosperity)

80/20 looks like. :thumbup:


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## sanders4617 (Jul 9, 2018)

80/20 can be deceiving. Because you would seed 8-10lb per 1000 with TTTF and like 2-3lb for KBG? So you're actually getting a more even mix.

Of course Hogan recommends like 6lb/1000 on new lawn whereas most of your TTTF guys are saying 10lb/1000.


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## Stegs (Aug 29, 2017)

GREAT INFO EVERYBODY!!

I just got off the phone with BOB, the owner of hogan seed. We talked for almost 45 minutes. What a guy! He is awesome

I told him exactly what i told stephen, and he went into more depth about the seed.

After spending 45 minutes on the phone with the owner himself....i was blown away by how helpful they are.

I went ahead and ordered the seed he recommened. When he told me about how they mix seed based on quality over quantity......thats what i want.

And from what i read on the Hogan company, it sounds like they are the people to get seed from...

it was alot of money, but he by far was the most helpful. I feel 100% confident about my purchase now.

And yes, the 80/20 split of seed, will end up being closer to 60/40 once it matures he said. So i got my mowing/fert and herbicide/fungicide instructions from the owner himself!!!

Im so excited now!!


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## 01redcrew (Jun 16, 2017)

They are hands down very helpful. I just ordered 90 tttf and 10kgb for my back yard


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

@Stegs glad you got Bob on the phone. I spent 45 minutes on the phone with him this spring, and he's unbelievably knowledgeable without being pushy. He will sell you whatever seed you want, but tries to steer you in the right direction.


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## fusebox7 (Jul 27, 2017)

Stegs said:


> Im so excited now!!


Congrats! That's the goal


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

sanders4617 said:


> 80/20 can be deceiving. Because you would seed 8-10lb per 1000 with TTTF and like 2-3lb for KBG? So you're actually getting a more even mix.
> 
> Of course Hogan recommends like 6lb/1000 on new lawn whereas most of your TTTF guys are saying 10lb/1000.


Yeah, because thete is a lot of KBG in there.


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## sanders4617 (Jul 9, 2018)

Green said:


> sanders4617 said:
> 
> 
> > 80/20 can be deceiving. Because you would seed 8-10lb per 1000 with TTTF and like 2-3lb for KBG? So you're actually getting a more even mix.
> ...


I bought straight TTTF and he recommended 6lb/1000 to me. I'm going around 8-10 most likely.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

sanders4617 said:


> I bought straight TTTF and he recommended 6lb/1000 to me. I'm going around 8-10 most likely.


4-6 lbs is usually for overseeding; usually 8-10 is recommended for new seeding, as you say. Occasionally up to 12.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

Stegs said:


> it was alot of money, but he by far was the most helpful. I feel 100% confident about my purchase now.


This was my first impression as well....wow expensive....but when you think about it its not really that much more than Scotts turf builder. I did a reno this spring not know the difference in seed quality I bought Scotts turf builder sun and shade mix. I paid like $55 for a 20 pound bag plus tax. I just ordered 50 pounds of the par 5 mix around $180 delivered. So it really is only like a $40 difference. Plus if you factor in that there are no weeds or other crop in Hogans blend its a no brainer. Oh and dont forget about the quality of the cultivators....


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## LIgrass (May 26, 2017)

JDgreen18 said:


> Stegs said:
> 
> 
> > it was alot of money, but he by far was the most helpful. I feel 100% confident about my purchase now.
> ...


That 20lb bag from the box store was most likely only 10lbs of seed + 10lbs of seed coating (look at the label) meaning the Scotts was more expensive!
Here's a sample Scotts label - notice the coating is 50% of the bag weight. It's very slick and most have no clue they're being shorted 50%.


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## Stegs (Aug 29, 2017)

Yes guys, I did spend more on seed than what my local guy sells, but after talking with bob for 45 minutes i could tell he took great pride in the quality of his product. He knows that his seed is more than turf merchants....but all his seed is top performing cultivars

He told me about proper mowing/fert and watering for the new seed. What to do and when to avoid brown patch and summer stress (as best as possible of course)

And from what i read about hogan seed (not only from the quality of their seed) but as a company....im glad i spent the extra money

I also rented a toro dingo with a harley rake yesterday....that should help me with the reno process!!

Im hoping to do another round up app sometime middle of next week......but things are already looking crispy 4 days into the first roundup app!

Im thinking about doing a lawn journal and taking pics of the progress.......not sure if i can keep up with all of it...but i will try!


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## sanders4617 (Jul 9, 2018)

@Stegs How did the dingo and harley rake work out for you? I'm planning on renting one in a couple weeks to smooth out my yard. Gonna get it for a week and see what all I can knock out.


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## Stegs (Aug 29, 2017)

Oh man worked great!
It's still a lot of work, there is some final taking and soil prep to be done, but what a life saver

I just got done with it yesterday. I have until this coming Friday to rake out the lawn and get the final grade.

It will be a smooth lawn in the end!

I got some pics of the progress so far...I'll truly and upload them


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## sanders4617 (Jul 9, 2018)

@Stegs Awesome can't wait to see them!

Some what is the final stuff you gotta do after the Harley rake? Trying to prepare myself for what I gotta do. Lol

Unfortunately.. I'll be seeding rye grass afterwards until the Spring so I can do Bermuda. So I don't get full benefits of a nice seed bed, but I'll have a smooth yard!


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## Stegs (Aug 29, 2017)

I sprayed my old lawn with r.u.

It was dead for about 2 weeks, the Harley rake does a great job of breaking it up and setting the grade....like fill in low spots and take out high spots

I will be doing some final raking....basically to really smooth things out....take out a few high spots where I couldn't get with the machine

I got to clean up along the 3dge of the drive...
And around all my irrigation heads!

Think of it as a rototiller that only goes down about 4 to 6 inches and breaks up the topsoil

My seed is going down this coming weekend...the toro hydro slit seeder is rented for the 24 thru 27th

I'll be putting down about 250lbs of seed....mostly hogan tttf and kbg.

Some shadier areas will be getting turf merchants tttf, kbg, prg mix

I'm excited for it! I was told by hogan that with ground temps above 55 degrees I should expect tttf to germinate in 5 to 7 days


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

I mow at 3.75 in. It's the perfect compromise in my area with irrigation.


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## Stegs (Aug 29, 2017)

Sorry i didnt get pics last night. Here in west michigan we had rain last night starting around 7:30pm

So when i got home from work i quick ran out and did as much as i could before the rain came. I will try and get some pics uploaded tonight or tomorrow of what the lawn looks like now. (or i should say bare dirt)

Tonight i have planned to cut a few tree roots that are sticking up, use a rake/garden hoe around the sprinkler heads and continue to rake out what i can.

I may have to bring in some dirt to raise up the area right around my irrigation heads....so they sit flush with the soil

trying now to get as much done in the few hours i have after work. Its crunch time!!!


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