# Introduce new KBG into existing KBG



## Deere Jr (Dec 7, 2017)

Planning for next year!

What is the best/recommended way to introduce a new cultivar of KBG into an existing *** blend? This would be like an overseed of sorts. I would be doing this in the spring and I understand that fall is ideal. I'm looking to get a bit darker color. The current grass is a northern mix, heavy with KBG. It's about an acre.

I don't want to go the nuclear option of killing the existing grass off as it's in decent shape. I have irrigation, pull behind spreader and boom sprayer. My current regimen has been:
Dimension in the spring, milorganite in June, and a couple applications of synthetic fertilizer in the fall. I usually spray tenacity in the fall as well to help control weeds.

Throughout the growing season I also spray a PGR mix of tnex and anuew. I now at 2.5" in the summer and 1.5" in the spring and fall.

I know that overseeing into KBG isn't the best as the new seedlings have a hard time establishing. Right now I'm thinking of scalping to under 1", heavy dethatching, spraying growth regulator a little heavy to knock the current grass back a while to get as much sunlight as possible to the new seed.

I need more advice on this as I am sure there are better thoughts out there.


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## Deere Jr (Dec 7, 2017)

Here's a pic of the existing lawn from a few weeks ago.


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## themishmosh (Jul 3, 2020)

I think your lawn is too nice to be successful


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

I doubt it would be successful at all with a canopy that thick.


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## CrackedCornCrack (Jan 25, 2020)

So I'm going a little counter culture here. Take a look at how quickly the bluegrass recovers here :

https://www.golfindustryshow.com/docs/librariesprovider6/default-document-library/education/2017-conference-presentations/fraze-mowing-what-is-it-and-could-i-use-it-on-my-course-presentation-by-aaron-patton-phd.pdf?sfvrsn=dbcc173e_0

And I ****THINK**** you could essentially scalp your bluegrass to the dirt, slit seed new kbg, water like a Reno and you'd be good to go.

MAYBE


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Have you thought of adding iron into your program? It's something to think about as adding new KBG cultivars may not give you the colour you desire, if you have success with growing it in at all.

Give the FAS thread a read. Many cool season lawns have been enhanced with this program.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Look into how sports fields overseed. They're thick, yet they overseed for insurance. The thing is, they probably drop more seed than you'd want to risk in a home lawn. You simply don't have the traffic they have, so you don't need a lot of seed.

Otherwise, you'll need to dethatch the heck out of the lawn to open up space (preferably evenly...easier said than done). And of course mow it low.

A PGR would help, too. One idea is to apply it when the HOC is around 2.5 inches at half rate and then again a few days later after the scalp to equal full rate and get all the blades wet with it. This will result in a major suppression of growth of the existing grass...more than with a normal, single full-rate app, I believe.

Then treat it like a reno...roll the seed in, apply peat moss, and water correctly.

You may never get the amount of new seed you want to take, depending how aggressive your existing grass cultivars are. Choose your new ones carefully.

This is a very invasive thing to do in Spring before Summer; if you do it, please document carefully and let us know how it goes. I don't know how the new grass would compete with the old for water all Summer.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Try some iron instead, that grass is way too nice to beat up for an overseed, especially when the chances of success are quite low.


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## NateDawg24 (Sep 11, 2019)

I tried an overseed of KBG into a mostly KBG yard this year to try to introduce newer cultivars. It failed with the exception of a few bare areas where I had cut back a plant. KBG just takes too long to establish and with all the water the seeds take to get established your existing lawn will grow to fast. I did everything I could think of to help it be successful (pgr, drastic scalp, scarify, etc). I am planning a reno next year. I would suggest either working with what you have or killing it and starting again.

If you had a really unhealthy yard maybe it would work but your's looks way too good for this to work imo


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

^+1


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## JP900++ (Aug 24, 2018)

So I agree it will be tough with that solid and thick coverage you have. If money is no (not much of an) object I say go for it. I'd do what was mentioned here, plus an aeration to get some soil coverage and open spots. I think if you time it right putting seed down a few days before and another PGR app just before germination you might buy yourself just enough time. Now getting seeds to grow... maybe keep your existing turf mowed as short as possible and mowed often. Fighting the rebound will be tough. At the end of the day (in a few months)the only thing you're out is some time and money. If it works awesome.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

CrackedCornCrack said:


> So I'm going a little counter culture here. Take a look at how quickly the bluegrass recovers here :
> 
> https://www.golfindustryshow.com/docs/librariesprovider6/default-document-library/education/2017-conference-presentations/fraze-mowing-what-is-it-and-could-i-use-it-on-my-course-presentation-by-aaron-patton-phd.pdf?sfvrsn=dbcc173e_0
> 
> ...


I agree with this approach. Most likely chance for success.


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## gregfromohio (Aug 14, 2019)

JP900++ said:


> So I agree it will be tough with that solid and thick coverage you have. If money is no (not much of an) object I say go for it. I'd do what was mentioned here, plus an aeration to get some soil coverage and open spots. I think if you time it right putting seed down a few days before and another PGR app just before germination you might buy yourself just enough time. Now getting seeds to grow... maybe keep your existing turf mowed as short as possible and mowed often. Fighting the rebound will be tough. At the end of the day (in a few months)the only thing you're out is some time and money. If it works awesome.


In addition to all of this above (scalp, aerate, pgr), you would probably need to double the seed dropped (because most of it won't make it), pre-germinate the seed in water filled trash cans) and then mix it with milorganite or peat moss to broadcast spread and then cut it with a manual reel mower for two months. Obviously a full kill is the way to go, but if you look at my lawn journal even that is no guarantee. I've been thinking about growing 500 to 1000 one inch or 1.5 inch plugs laid out in a grid pattern to blend in some elite KBG. I will need to make my own tool for this out of some thin wall conduit or something like that. The other thing I've been contemplating is growing my own sod with elite KBG somewhere and transplanting it with a sod cutter. Since my front yard is highly visible and parts of my back yard are not, I may grow the KBG in the back and if it looks good.....transplant it to the front, then replant the back, and repeat. There is also a vacant lot in my neighborhood that I'm sure the owner would probably agree to let me grow a kick *** stand of bluegrass on.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

I'll never tell someone not to do something. But I really think supplementing with iron throughout the season along with frequent N applications from Urea or AS will do wonders for your current grass. Your lawn looks hungry.

You're talking about over seeding KBG, in the Spring no less. I truly believe you can get the lawn you want with the grass you already have.


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## jcs43920 (Jun 3, 2019)

Your lawn looks pretty good as it is but I was in a similar situation last year and here's what I did.

I used round up and tenacity to kill off any poa annua/triv or bentgrass. Waited a couple weeks than in the mid summer. Yes mid summer super hot in July I scalped my grass as low as I could go and cut off all watering so it would stunt the turf and give time for new KBG to germinate. I then dethatched my lawn with a power rake going over it a couple times, ariated and then over-seeded and top dressed with peat moss.

The idea of doing it in the summer is so my KBG would slow way down in growth or even go dormant and would allow time for my new seedlings to sprout. This also made it less likely for poa annua to germinate or take off because the solid temp was around 80 degrees. Then I watered very light and frequently just enough to keep the seed damp but not give a good watering to the grass. I went with Midnight, Bewitched, and Award. I also applied Scotts starter fert with tenacity to help aid in keeping poa annua from germinating. The KBG started coming up around 10 days which is faster than I expected but I believe due to the warmer soil temperatures. I continued to water light and frequently for about a month then tapered off less frequently. I did have to mow at about 10 days which I'm sure hurt some of the seedlings but I did it anyways because I didn't want the existing grass to get too high and hog all the sun. After a couple months the yard is looking good. I did experience a little poa annua and triv that tried to come back but I have been controlling it with pre-emergents and hand pulling.


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## JeffR84 (Apr 25, 2020)

Do you sharpen your blades often? Cutting that low with a rotary motor requires really sharp blades. If your not getting a clean cut it causes a little bit of a hazy look, which can make the grass look a lighter green.

Like others have mentioned, definitely try liquid iron.

I have KBG sod that the builders laid, the first 2 summers I wasn't happy with the color. This year I focused on getting my my NPK right, foliar iron every 2-3 weeks and fixing my pH and my grass is much darker this year.

Not saying this will be the case for you, but some food for thought.


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## Deere Jr (Dec 7, 2017)

Thank you so much for the replies. What a great forum! I really appreciate it.

I was afraid that some would say the established grass will make it too difficult for new seedlings. I think your probably right.

I get a lot of compliments on the turf, but like many on this forum, I'm never satisfied. There is always room for improvement! Regarding the mower, yes I use a rotary. I have a Jacobsen tri king, but it's such a pain when the grass gets just a little too long, it's worthless. I keep the blades on my rotary sharp. I have a couple sets of blades.

I think I'll take the advice of incorporating FAS into my regimen. 2 questions about that. 
1) Can I tank mix FAS with other products like fungicides or growth regulators? and,
2) Where is a good source for FAS? I will be spraying an acre at a time. It needs to be non staining as I have concrete landscape curbing, concrete driveway, and stamped concrete patios.

Thanks again for all the replies.


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## Deere Jr (Dec 7, 2017)

jcs43920 said:


>


Great lawn jcs!


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## JeffR84 (Apr 25, 2020)

@Deere Jr I'm not an expert on FAS but I do know that it stains concrete. Perhaps you should look into Feature 6-0-0. It is chelated so it doesn't leave any stains. It is a little bit more expensive than FAS but it's probably also a little more convenient.

You can buy Feature here:

https://i-want-feature.square.site/


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