# Overseeding Methods + Lawn Advice



## jboss10 (Jul 30, 2018)

Hi All,

*Lawn + Grass Seed options:*



http://imgur.com/O7lF8fF


Long read, if you can bear with me, thank you!

I'm in CT - USDA Zone (7a/6b). I live on the shoreline so temperatures are typically not as hot therefore we kind of border the 7a/6b Zone. I currently have a lawn service coming for applications now just for this first year until I got my head on straight to figure out what to do with the lawn, they will be done come Fall and I'll take over.

I have spent hours trying to figure out how to proceed with my lawn. I just sent a soil sample of the back, front, and side yard to the location extension office and will get results in 1-2 weeks. I put down a lime application in the Spring because I have a lot of moss in the yard (wooded area and poor drainage is what I suspect) It was the first thing I read so I ran out and did it - a little more knowledgeable now. The yard looks a heck of a lot better than it did back in the early Spring. The applications from the lawn service I think have really helped it out. Half of the backyard looks pretty good and the other half is just bare/spotty and mossy. Front yard is not as mossy but the soil is compact and is pretty spotty as well.

The backyard (south side) gets a decent amount of sun throughout the day. I'd say half of it gets 4+hrs and then as the sun moves to the west the other side gets about 5+hrs. The front yard is the north side so it doesn't get as much but was actually surprised to see that it gets more than I thought. The front yard also slopes down a bit as well. The side yard is well, just a mess. It's the east side but the sun gets blocked by the woods on that side. It does get a few hours in the afternoon but that's about it. Just cleared out a ton of brush/sapplings/low hanging branches in the hopes of more air flow last weekend (not in the pictures).

Now to my question and this is one I have spent countless hours researching. I'm in a pickle between slit seeding and core aeration this Fall. I'm thinking the last weekend of August to do the work. What do you guys recommend based on the images? Slit seeding I heard can be a little tough on the turf but you get better germination.

*Slit Seeding/Core Aeration w/ broadcast*
I've heard the following from other forums + researching:

1). If slit seeding, don't use the hopper. You'll end up wasting seed if it's not properly calibrated plus all the turns and such. So, a few guys recommended to broadcast the seed after mowing really short then slit seed the lawn (N-S, E-W passes) to get the seed in. This way you have more control of your seed (especially when I'd be paying $100-$120 for 50#).

2). Slit seeding with hopper - skeptical due to potentially wonky rental equipment and loss of seed - It's a Billy Goat

3). Core Aeration (method that seemed more doable) - Core aerate 2/3 passes or as much as you can handle. Bare spots go over 4-5 times to almost till the soil then broadcast - Rental equipment is

4). Or, Core Aerate then broadcast then go over it again with another pass of aeration.

5). Might just lean towards the combo. Do core aeration 3rd weekend in August then do the slit seeding 1st or 2nd weekend in September.

Starter Fertilizer - Although, the lawn service company will be coming out again in August/Sept/October. Not sure if putting Starter down on top of their services would be good for the seed.

And, of course, the most important, water water water.

*Grass Seed:*
I have a lawn and garden center that sells Lebanon ProScape seed/fertilizer and the guy is working with me on the prices. You can see the varieties available in the link above. He recommended the Procscape Sport Turf Mix but am wondering if I even't want any Perennial Rye in the lawn. But, maybe 20% would be good. At first, I was thinking going for the Superior Sun and Shade mix due to the chewing/red fescues but he said he wasn't a fan of them and that with the amount of sun I get the TTTF and KBG should do fine. Or, just do the A-LIST pure TTTF.

I just would like some feedback, what you guys experience, best way to go about it as I've never done either. I can rent a Ryan's Core Aeration and they also have a Billy Goat slit seeder.

If more pictures + information are needed to help assess this more just let me know!

Thanks!


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

I'm not a huge fan of slit seeding, remember it "closes" the hole behind it somewhat, so I'm not sure broadcasting afterwards will help much. BUT, it will help to remove thatch and allow the seed to make better soil contact if you spread after using the machine. I think if you can calibrate it correctly and the lawn is flat, I would certainly use the hopper.

I'd vote for core aeration in your situation, but remember that will bring more weed seeds to the area. Is your yard compact?

Honestly, I don't do either these days. I mow short (slowly bring down the height of cut over weeks) and rake the yard to remove thatch and then broadcast the seed.

I would use Scott's start with mesotrione. Meso is the active ingredient in Tenacity, has some pre-emergent effect while your fescue and bluegrasses germinate. Caution with creeping fescues and possibly perrenial ryte.

On to the seed, if you have shade avoid rye. If it's dense shade, go with creeping fescue blend. If you have enough light just do TTTF and fescue. Look for 0% weed seeds.


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## jboss10 (Jul 30, 2018)

Thank you much for the kind reply and advice. I posted pictures of my current yard situation plus grass seed options. Let me know if the link worked out ok for you.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

link doesn't work for me


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## jboss10 (Jul 30, 2018)

Hmm, interesting. It works ok on my end if you click the picture in the first post. I'll look into it just so others can see the seed/yard.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

It works now.

I would do A or D. I recognize the TTTF cultivars in A more than B.

Zinfandel is a bluegrass I know people use, but I have no experience with. I would almost consider doing A/B for TTTF and trying to source your own KBG (from Hogan's, Pawnee Buttes, Seed SuperStore). I would think NuGlade or another shade tolerant KBG would be more useful.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Fellow CT guy here. I would go with one of the TTTF/KBG mixes for sure.

One thing you could do to help overseeding, is to stop watering your existing grass a couple of weeks before, and mow it down to about 2 in. Let it bake in the sun a bit and go dormant. Then detatch with the slit seeder or a hand rake like the Groundskeeper. Then overseed using the spreader at around 5 to 6 lbs per thousand, splitting it in two directions. Core aeration before this is optional, but might be a good idea if your ground is hard. I've done it almost every way possible...aration, aeration and detatch, no aeration, etc. All work, and peat moss after the seed helps. I've even detatched after aerating, but didn't like doing it that way...too messy.

The Scotts or Lebanon starter with Meso fertilizers that were mentioned are helpful, too, for weed prevention.

Talk with the lawn service guys and make sure you and they are coordinated. More starter fertilizer is fine, and won't hurt anything. Tell them not to use any weed control this year, and to skip the August fertilizer app all together, since all they would do is to run over your seed with their spreader, and tear it up, and maybe use herbicides that would affect your seed. Maybe have them do the aeration instead, but make sure you drop seed right after that.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

The are two guys here in St. Louis that seem to be promoting "Winning Colors" They are both very experienced turf guys and seem to do whatever they do based on years of zeroing in on the best experiences. Other than meeting them recently and hearing about Winning Colors here I don't know anything.

I do know that no one ever got fired for using a Lebanon product on their turf. They have been selling into the golf course industry since before my first lawn in 1977. I became aware of them then because they sold Tupersan containing fertilizers which I used on my first house. It worked great!

If you use a slit seeder with a planting disc and set it shallow it won't roll down over the seed. It will leave a harrowed row. Some people like to roll over that. I won't. I think you set the depth for one quarter to one half inch when you actually seed.


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## jboss10 (Jul 30, 2018)

I think I'm at the point of going forward with the following:
1) Monitor weather conditions over the coming weeks and prepare for overseed. Probably going to shoot for the 2nd weekend in September. 
Analyze soil test results once it comes in. 
2) Buy a few more sprinklers/hose, 4-port hose timer, and SoilMoist seed cover, grass seed, fertilizer. 
3) Work with lawn service to make sure they don't interrupt my overseed. 
4) Core Aerate - multiple passes!
5) Manually prep bare spots to get soil ready. 
6) Fertilze
7) Overseed - 5/6lbs per M
8) Water, water, water

Decent plan?


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

Some make the case to wait on the fertilizer until it germinates. I am going that route this year.


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## jboss10 (Jul 30, 2018)

Ah good to know, thank you. Also, I know to mow low but what is "low". Maybe the 2nd to lowest setting on the mower?


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

jboss10 said:


> Ah good to know, thank you. Also, I know to mow low but what is "low". Maybe the 2nd to lowest setting on the mower?


The appropriate answer is as low as you can go without hurting the current turf. I don't know your mower settings but a notch or two below the middle is probably where you want to be.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

probasestealer said:


> jboss10 said:
> 
> 
> > Ah good to know, thank you. Also, I know to mow low but what is "low". Maybe the 2nd to lowest setting on the mower?
> ...


That'll probably end up being around a 2 inch setting.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

jessehurlburt said:


> Some make the case to wait on the fertilizer until it germinates. I am going that route this year.


I go one further and wait until I've mowed once or twice. With a mechanical reel mower there's no way I could damage much by waiting until then.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@jboss10, I would strongly suggest not going later than Sept. 15th or so for TTTF in your area. That would be the absolute latest that would work well in an average year. I would actually go earlier if you can. (Fellow CTers, note that in Zone 6b, the first week in Sept. is the latest you'd want to aim for with TTTF...speaking as someone who has tried everything from early August to late October). My early October reno was not fun...


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## jboss10 (Jul 30, 2018)

Green said:


> @jboss10, I would strongly suggest not going later than Sept. 15th or so for TTTF in your area. That would be the absolute latest that would work well in an average year. I would actually go earlier if you can. (Fellow CTers, note that in Zone 6b, the first week in Sept. is the latest you'd want to aim for with TTTF...speaking as someone who has tried everything from early August to late October). My early October reno was not fun...


Thank you for the advice! I will most certainly take it. When do you recommend then? In 2-3 weekends maybe? That way, I can reserve the aerator and my brother's time/truck to help out.


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## jboss10 (Jul 30, 2018)

Another quick question for aeration - How many passes is too many? I was thinking of doing a minimum of 2 on the established turf, maybe 3? As for the bare spots, 3-4 passes? The machine I'm renting is the Ryan's Lawnaire IV, I believe. Do you think a 24-hour rental is needed rather than 4 hrs, including transport time? The lawn is about 15-16K sq. ft. and all flat except a very slight slope in the front.


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

jboss10 said:


> Another quick question for aeration - How many passes is too many? I was thinking of doing a minimum of 2 on the established turf, maybe 3? As for the bare spots, 3-4 passes? The machine I'm renting is the Ryan's Lawnaire IV, I believe. Do you think a 24-hour rental is needed rather than 4 hrs, including transport time? The lawn is about 15-16K sq. ft. and all flat except a very slight slope in the front.


You should be able to do it and get it returned in that time. Home Depot told me they pro rate their rentals last time I rented an aerator. Don't forget to rinse it off or its a $75 charge. Don't ask how I know. :? (I loaded it back up and brought it to a buddy's house and rinsed it off)

Def more passes on the bare areas.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

jboss10 said:


> Thank you for the advice! I will most certainly take it. When do you recommend then? In 2-3 weekends maybe? That way, I can reserve the aerator and my brother's time/truck to help out.


You generally want enough time until first frost for the grass to have started tillering. You can use average first frost a guesstimate, but some websites are not accurate for certain areas with their calculators. In my area, it's Oct. 14-18 or so. The grass starts to slow down after that as the ground cools. For TTTF, you'd want around 6-8 weeks. So if your first frost tends to be, say Nov. 1, you want to start 6 to 8 weeks before if possible. For KBG, it's more like 10 weeks. A mix of KBG and TTTF is in between. Think back to when you usually get frost, or look at several websites to help figure it out. Again, some are not so accurate. Luckily I found data from the CT experimental station's website that was more accurate. You also don't want to push lots of fertilizer after first frost. It's probably ok to have a trickle from slow release, but you probably want to stop dumping lots of N around the time things start slowing if you're spoon feeding or blitzing, or it might stress the roots.


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## jboss10 (Jul 30, 2018)

Good to know - I looked online and the shoreline for CT looks to be about the last week of October (Oct 21 - 31). Thanks again.


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## jjp2222 (Jul 19, 2018)

Where are you getting that frost data?


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## jboss10 (Jul 30, 2018)

jjp2222 said:


> Where are you getting that frost data?


https://www.plantmaps.com/interactive-connecticut-first-frost-date-map.php


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## jboss10 (Jul 30, 2018)

Hey Guys -

I have re-thought my plan of attack in a couple weeks. For obvious reason, I'm only going to focus on overseeding my back yard this fall. When I realized how much watering I would need to do for 15K sq. ft + cost of all the materials, it kind of seemed like a lot for one person. I'm going to focus on the 11K square feet back yard, all flat, even turf. I will still aerate the front yard as I'll have the machine anyways.

I'm trying to put together an irrigation system together that will work for my system. I'm on well, unfortunately, and pressure isn't great. I get a little more than 5GPM out of a 50' hose on the end. I went out yesterday and bought the Hunter PGP rotors and thew them on some spikes with 1/2" to 3/4" risers. They seem to work wonders and seem to through a nice arc, consistently. Here is my question - I'm reading their site and it's telling me ~.4 in/hr of precipitation. Does that seem like the norm/average for gear-driven rotors? Seems like a long time for the water to need to be on to not even get .5 inch of water on the grass. Even with the different nozzles, I think you need to be pumping like 8GPM through these things to get .8in/hr.

I looked at some of the RainBird precipitation/hr and some of them say between .2-1.2 in/hr. Am I missing something here? Do some of the RainBird's and other models doing more with similar nozzles + pressure to be putting out that much water in one hour? What do you guys recommend? I really like the PGP's, they seem to be well made and do a good job when I was doing some test runs. Ideally, I'd like to be able to run 2-PGP's at the same time on one nozzle on my sprinkler timer without a huge decrease in pressure. This way, I can do 6 PGPs on the 10-11K of lawn which I'm thinking should be sufficient for good coverage. Pairing this with, 2-3X a day watering at 20mins a piece?

I'll leave it to the professional to help out  
Thanks!


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## jboss10 (Jul 30, 2018)

So - I re-read my post and excuse my ignorance, please. I just did a little more researching and found the following:



I have the blue nozzles - So, I probably can run 2 of the PGPs at the same time (2.5GPM and not sure of the pressure though) and still get the .4in/hr which would be ideal.


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## BlackThumb (Aug 4, 2018)

Just remember that is 0.4in/hr average over a triangular/hexagonal pattern with 40-60% overlap.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

A slow precipitation rate is desired to avoid run off. You want the soil to absorb the water. Some soils (clay) take forever to absorb. I cycle my zones to give it more time to absorb and I have a 0.4in/hr zone. The only negative of 0.4in/hr is that it take a long time to do the entire yard.


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## jboss10 (Jul 30, 2018)

So if I run them at 30mins a piece (twice a day), would that be sufficient watering for new seedlings? Yard is partially shady so it seems like it can retain the water a little bit better. I'm hoping 6-7 heads will be enough to do the 10k square feet


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## jboss10 (Jul 30, 2018)

I didn't want to start a new thread but have a few more questions before my overseed:

1) Noticing more crabgrass in the yard (not in huge areas exceot) just here and there. If I plan to overseed on 8/18 should I just grab some Ortho Crab Grass and spot spray (add some dish soap to the concentrate to help break down the waxy coating on the crabgrass)? I probably should have done this weeks ago but here I am. I've been reading recommendations on putting down Tenacity but don't think I would do the entire yard with a spray I would go for granules if I could. I just want to start to get something down so the crabgrass doesn't choke out the new seedling.

2) Should a Tenacity-like product be put down at the time of overseeding?

3) Overseeding plan:
a) Rent the Ryans IV aerator
b) Going to go down one more step on HOC on my mower this week. I have 7 pegs and dropped from 7 to 6 and might 
drop down to 4 this time week. Next week, before the overseed, I'll drop it to 2 or 3. Need to actually measure grass 
length though. What's a good height when overseeding? Cut the grass to 2..0 - 2.5"?
c) Wait to use starter fertilizer after the TTTF start to take?

4) Decided to do 90% TTTF + 10% KBG


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