# davegravy's 2020 journal (now with reno!)



## davegravy

First thing's first. Here's where we're starting this year:





 Thread with my first ever soil test and results discussion

*Plan for the near future:*


 Figure out my fert plan
 Prodiamine app
 FAS app
 Figure out when to start Aneuw apps
 Spot spray some 3way in one section which has which has a speedwell outbreak
 Spot spray dandelions with 3way


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## davegravy

Dropped 0.275oz/ksqft prodiamine today, dodging the areas I dormant seeded in Feb.

The back got a little more than the front (I had to pick up the walking pace to finish the front before the tank ran dry, plus it was a bit breezy in the front)

I may do a light prodiamine app 2 months from now in the front just to extend a bit into fall. Or maybe switch to tenacity to be safe.

My *** experimental reno in the back yard does not look well. Not growing (unlike like the rest of my grass) and still has a very sickly yellow haze just like it had in the fall. I dormant seeded it in Feb but seeing very little germination (some though). Maybe I should have gotten a separate soil test for this area since the previous owner had it as a garden and I've had it tarped over for a couple seasons.







The front area dormant seed is also not seeing much activity yet.


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## Matix99def

Someone may chime in as to why this is, but I believe they say to wait 2 mows before you apply pgr. Have you got any further in your fert plan?


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## davegravy

Updated my last post with pics



Matix99def said:


> Someone may chime in as to why this is, but I believe they say to wait 2 mows before you apply pgr. Have you got any further in your fert plan?


I've done 4 mows already but the 1st was charity, the 2nd and 3rd were probably only making clippings on 70% of the lawn. I'll wait another week or two till the growth really picks up.

For fert plan I need 5lbs K and 4lbs N per ksqft. Plus I'd like to also get a bit of acidification going so I picked up a 50lb bag of sulfer which I'll mix in with my fertilizer apps.

Draft plan is as follows (all values are lbs of product per ksqft, not lbs of AI):

*
urea = 46-0-0
SoP = 0-0-50
*

*Apr 25*
2 lb SOP
0.5 lb urea

*May 9*
0.5 lb urea
2.5 lb sulfur

*May 23*
2 lb SOP
0.5 lb urea
2.5 lb sulfur

*June 6*
0.5 lb urea
2.5lb sulfur

*June 20*
0.5 lb urea
2 lb SOP
2.5 lb sulfur

*Jul 18*
2 lb SOP

*Aug 15*
2 lb SOP

*Aug 22*
*fall blitz start, weekly apps of 1lb urea*

*Oct 10 (give or take, weather depending) *
*last fall blitz app of 1lb urea*


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## Babameca

Can you clarify when you say 2lbs of SOP how much effective K you are putting. Same for all the rest. I dont see any Nitrogen for 3 months on a row! That's a long stretch while only using Urea. That s...t ain't last in the soil for long. If your soil is alkaline, you may think of replacing Urea with AS. I don't see any organic stuff: micros, Kelp, Humic, Fulvic
Here is mine for refrence


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## davegravy

Babameca said:


> Can you clarify when you say 2lbs of SOP how much effective K you are putting. Same for all the rest. I dont see any Nitrogen for 3 months on a row! That's a long stretch while only using Urea. That s...t ain't last in the soil for long. If your soil is alkaline, you may think of replacing Urea with AS. I don't see any organic stuff: micros, Kelp, Humic, Fulvic
> Here is mine for refrence


SOP is approx. 50% potassium, so what I show is 5lbs worth over the season. Urea is 50% nitrogen, and sulfer is 100% sulfer.

My understanding is you don't generally want to be applying N during the summer months, so I split it to have 25% of my seasonal N in the spring and 75% in the fall (for the blitz). You think I should spread it more evenly eh?

I should note that what's not shown is that I'll be spraying FS bi-weekly through the season and mixing AS or urea with that but just light foliar doses which shouldn't change my net annual N much.

Also not shown - I have Humic which I'll likely put down regularly throughout the season too, I heard there's no such thing as too much so I'll just throw it down as regularly as possible when it's convenient. I don't have any other organics, I'm not sure I'm sold on their efficacy and I'm already adding a bunch to my lawn routine from last year so if I add them in it'll probably be next season.


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## Babameca

@davegravy I understand now. Are you so much deficient on K? That's a lot of K for a season IMO.
Your test plot (and any bare spots) will need more N in spring to try to spread faster. I am also guessing you will do 2 apps per month (every other week?) to make Urea available. Monthly Urea won't hold up. It is too volatile.
And yes you can still give 0.5 Early June and late August. Our summer heats are way shorter than in US and sometimes completely missing (I personally remember few seasons when temps never held up above 30 for long). Irrigation should be on point though. I am putting my last 'spring' fert in July and it is an FMS which supplies N for up to 16 weeks. And total 2.25lbs of N for spring. My lawn is new and will need help to spread further. Phosphite (not phosphate) is also another 'gimmick' that is not a gimmick :lol:. Golf corse superintendents swear of it. 
And last, I forgot, the other 2 macro nutrients next to sulfur are Ca and Mg. You have enough of this in the soil?


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## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy I understand now. Are you so much deficient on K? That's a lot of K for a season IMO.
> Your test plot (and any bare spots) will need more N in spring to try to spread faster. I am also guessing you will do 2 apps per month (every other week?) to make Urea available. Monthly Urea won't hold up. It is too volatile.
> And yes you can still give 0.5 Early June and late August. Our summer heats are way shorter than in US and sometimes completely missing (I personally remember few seasons when temps never held up above 30 for long). Irrigation should be on point though. I am putting my last 'spring' fert in July and it is an FMS which supplies N for up to 16 weeks. And total 2.25lbs of N for spring. My lawn is new and will need help to spread further. Phosphite (not phosphate) is also another 'gimmick' that is not a gimmick :lol:. Golf corse superintendents swear of it.
> And last, I forgot, the other 2 macro nutrients next to sulfur are Ca and Mg. You have enough of this in the soil?


Check out my soil test thread:

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=16343

I'm very low on K.

I can add some N to early June and Late august, no sure how critical it is that I keep N to 4lbs for the season. I suspect it's fine to go a bit over.


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## Babameca

@davegravy Look at how much N Pete was pushing some years:
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=248351#p248351
If you can keep up with the mowing, there is nothing wrong to go at 5-6lbs. Again, if the grass is full and dense, you don't need to.
Your magnesium is not low but the Ca/Mg ratio is very off. Adding magnesium will help correct it. It is not the absolute value that matters, but the saturation ratio. That is not IMO, being told. Adding Epsom Salt will not alter your pH.
Your Sulfur input is going to bring you at about 7-7.2pH. I guess you planned to keep on going next season.
Looking forward to see your progress!


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## davegravy

*April 26th:
*

Applied 2lb/k SOP
*April 30th:
*

Finally got some decent rain (0.3"). No more in the forecast 
Spot sprayed a bunch of broadleaf weeds with 3way
Spot sprayed some wild violet and poa A with tenacity

*TODO: *

Recalibrate my backpack sprayer
Break out the lawn sprinklers
Sharpen my mower blade
Get some urea or AS spoon feeding going.
Get some foliar iron down
Spot spray 3way, the victoria speedwell infestation is getting closer and closer to going to seed
Get some Aneuw PGR down


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## davegravy

Applied FAS and 0.18oz/k Aneuw today.

Tenacity test spot sprays are clearly visible now, quite lit up.

There's something going wrong in a large section of my backyard. Looks like melting out or some kind of fungus... lots of yellowing and thinning. But why would a fungus be active this time of year when its been so cold and dry? We had a very dry April but still (I thought) lots of moisture left in the soil and it doesn't look like drought stress. I'm a bit late putting down nitrogen, don't know if that could explain it considering it's a localized problem. Really confusing.


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## Babameca

Looks really nice man!


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## davegravy

Babameca said:


> Looks really nice man!


Thanks, from the side it does but there's a storm coming (fungus).


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## davegravy

Put down and watered in 0.25lbs /k of N and some humic.

Cut and bagged clippings (due to melting out)

Here's some full sun shots.





Shows a bit more clearly the rear yard areas that are starting to struggle (dark brown patch in the middle, yellow patches at the back)


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## davegravy

We're finally out of the spring freeze. Applied 0.25lbs N and 1lbs K/k today (but the SOP app was painfully uneven).

The lawn is thinning more in the yellow patches, the patches are growing, and there's more patches. My fungicide order is stuck at Seedworld.

First sulfur application tomorrow now that it's warmed up (2.5lbs/k).


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## davegravy

I ran the sun joe over the worst part of the leaf spot outbreak. Wasn't much thatch but I wanted all the fungus-infested grass that's died in the past month out of there. 


Still some lesions so I'm gonna keep it dry and not push the N yet


It's worst in that one spot. The lesions and thinning out is pretty wide spread across the yard but not as severely as that strip at the back.


Amazing the difference in colour you get from a different camera exposure. It's like my clorosis is gone!


Front is still happy:


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## jrubb42

@davegravy I could be completely off here, so take it with a grain of salt, but do you think that area has something to do with water collecting in a low spot. You cant help but notice it goes straight across your yard. Judging by your photos, it looks like the lowest part of your yard is in the middle but maybe it's low in that area also. Have you had problems in that area in the past or just this year?


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## Babameca

@davegravy Just my 100% personal take on this, I would have sent a sample somewhere to define the pathogen and 2. Recall latest weather data and water inputs. In instances similar to the scenario, I would run a preventive fungicide just in this area for a piece of mind....Grass of what I can see will recover in no time.


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## davegravy

jrubb42 said:


> @davegravy I could be completely off here, so take it with a grain of salt, but do you think that area has something to do with water collecting in a low spot. You cant help but notice it goes straight across your yard. Judging by your photos, it looks like the lowest part of your yard is in the middle but maybe it's low in that area also. Have you had problems in that area in the past or just this year?


Interesting. The grading is higher where I'm standing taking the photo and slopes down towards the back of the yard but the low point is the circled area which you can see has a bit of a darker haze to it. It's the second worst part of the yard in terms of amount of thinning and lesions going on. 


I have this kind of thing happen all over the yard every year. Usually it starts early-mid June, not so early in the spring. And usually it's everywhere with equal severity not so concentrated. Might be a different cause but certainly has the same visual appearance.


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## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Just my 100% personal take on this, I would have sent a sample somewhere to define the pathogen and 2. Recall latest weather data and water inputs. In instances similar to the scenario, I would run a preventive fungicide just in this area for a piece of mind....Grass of what I can see will recover in no time.


Good idea. Although, I don't think we've ever had a spring like this before. Never had a string of 18C weather and grass bouncing out of winter followed by 2 weeks of very cold with almost no rain. Any suggestions for where to get testing?

And yeah I'm definitely keeping fungicides on hand from now on. If my seedworld order ever arrives


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## Babameca

@davegravy To be honest I have no idea of a lab. Post in the main section. Some of the pro's have done this I am sure.
We are entering summer temps here, followed by a more seasonal ones a week out. I am also confused along with my grass, what to do...It is bone dry and I water 2 times a week.


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## davegravy

@jrubb42 I was just looking through my pics from last summer and noticed something peculiar.



The area which is currently dying out was one of the few areas that was green in the summer heat. Lines up with your theory that this area is getting more water somehow. I haven't been watering this season so it's not a sprinkler positioning thing. Maybe drainage, but I've never seen standing water or soil compaction here. Will take a closer look.


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## jrubb42

davegravy said:


> @jrubb42 I was just looking through my pics from last summer and noticed something peculiar.
> 
> 
> 
> The area which is currently dying out was one of the few areas that was green in the summer heat. Lines up with your theory that this area is getting more water somehow. I haven't been watering this season so it's not a sprinkler positioning thing. Maybe drainage, but I've never seen standing water or soil compaction here. Will take a closer look.


Yeah if water drains to that area because it is lower than others, it will still moist longer - which invites fungal issues easier. May be something to investigate after you get hit with a lot of rain or you water. Once the rest of the yard is dry, take a peak and see how moist that area is.


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## davegravy

Pulling through this heat wave without too much damage. Yellow haze is starting though :?



First season I've noticed / paid attention to seed heads. My neighbours, who both tend to have very little issue with their yards (for very little effort) compared to me, have way more KBG in their lawns. Makes me want to do a reno.


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## Stuofsci02

Your KBG will continue to fill in.. Patience.... Spring always is a disappointment because we always remember the good times from last fall....


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## davegravy

Some decent rainfall today (finally!) so I got out the sprayer and applied humic plus 0.25lbs N/k from AS while it rained. Usually I do urea, this is my first time doing AS as a soil application and I'm hoping the grass will respond better with the slight extra bit of acidification it provides (my soil is pH 7.6.)

After spraying I had a bit extra left in the tank so decided to do an experiment. I went to one of my areas that's struggling and sprayed a 2ftx2ft area three extra times (so it got a 1 lb N/k rate) I did the same thing in another area that's hurting. Will be curious to see how the areas respond and if it's an indication my grass is struggling because it's hungry.


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## Stuofsci02

Good plan... the rain is great even if it derailed my mow for today...


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## jrubb42

davegravy said:


> Some decent rainfall today (finally!) so I got out the sprayer and applied humic plus 0.25lbs N/k from AS while it rained. Usually I do urea, this is my first time doing AS as a soil application and I'm hoping the grass will respond better with the slight extra bit of acidification it provides (my soil is pH 7.6.)
> 
> After spraying I had a bit extra left in the tank so decided to do an experiment. I went to one of my areas that's struggling and sprayed a 2ftx2ft area three extra times (so it got a 1 lb N/k rate) I did the same thing in another area that's hurting. Will be curious to see how the areas respond and if it's an indication my grass is struggling because it's hungry.


Have you noticed any difference with the AS? How did your experimental areas fair?


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## davegravy

jrubb42 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some decent rainfall today (finally!) so I got out the sprayer and applied humic plus 0.25lbs N/k from AS while it rained. Usually I do urea, this is my first time doing AS as a soil application and I'm hoping the grass will respond better with the slight extra bit of acidification it provides (my soil is pH 7.6.)
> 
> After spraying I had a bit extra left in the tank so decided to do an experiment. I went to one of my areas that's struggling and sprayed a 2ftx2ft area three extra times (so it got a 1 lb N/k rate) I did the same thing in another area that's hurting. Will be curious to see how the areas respond and if it's an indication my grass is struggling because it's hungry.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you noticed any difference with the AS? How did your experimental areas fair?
Click to expand...

Very slight but I think the grass is a shade greener with the AS so I'm going to keep going with it. Regarding the experimental areas I can't really see much difference to be honest - if there's any difference it's very subtle.

I'm suddenly getting more and more of these little patches of KBG popping up all over my backyard that are about 2-3" in diameter, dark green and thick/dense. I figure they're either a modern cultivar from an overseed a couple seasons ago finally getting established, or the elemental sulfur I put down early May is finally breaking down with the heat and the KBG loves the localized acidity. They're growing exceptionally well even in areas which got ravaged and thinned out in late April early May I guess from fungus or something. I'm going to be applying more sulfur soon and I'm hoping these small patches spread, take over the whole yard, and make it wonderful


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## Babameca

Do a test plot. Cover a small area with some plywood or a plastic bag when spraying FAS, paint the corners and evaluate the effect later.


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## davegravy

Was wondering why my pictures always look so much better than the lawn looks in real life. I turned off the "scene optimizer" in my app and now things look more realistic!



I'll turn it back on for photos I send to my coworker who I'm in competition with 😜

@Babameca i just applied FAS at 4oz FS/k and covered a small section as a control plot.

Also since the last photo I raised the HOC one notch. Somewhere around 2.5-3in now I think.


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## davegravy

Burn marks from my latest fertilizer application (don't try to melt down and spray SOP - it doesn't work well)



Even without the burn marks the lawn doesn't look happy. Here is my beacon of hope:



I renoed this little area with a spaere seed mix last spring and it's absolutely trouncing the rest of the yard. It actually responds to FAS, and it didn't flinch at my killer SOP spray.

Ok it's getting a bit of help in the picture from early morning shade but trust me it's looking good and goes to show how badly the rest of my yard needs a reno. I think I just have cruddy old cultivars from 1960.


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## Kaba

Did you spray your SOP with a hose end or a backpack?

I tend to spray fert with a hose end to get it watered in more...


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## davegravy

Kaba said:


> Did you spray your SOP with a hose end or a backpack?
> 
> I tend to spray fert with a hose end to get it watered in more...


Backpack. Challenge with my hose end is it won't hold much product. I'd have to do probably 5 or 6 applications, and based on how big a pain it is to dissolve each application would take a while.


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## davegravy

@Babameca

Germination test Day 5. PRG is off to the races, KBG still revving its engine.


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## Babameca

@davegravy That repeats my reno experience. CSI is pretty dark, so zero regrets. It will shield the lazy KBG from downpours. Watch out, one variety will take forever to pop. It is still very, very compact. I assume it is the Award. Very nice looking though.


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## Stuofsci02

Which seed is this?


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## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> Which seed is this?


 Low Mow Bluegrass Tee Mixture from Oscseed. 

Same as @Babameca used I believe


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## Babameca

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which seed is this?
> 
> 
> 
> Low Mow Bluegrass Tee Mixture from Oscseed.
> 
> Same as @Babameca used I believe
Click to expand...

Mine was No8. 35% Everest.
@Stuofsci02 Can get GQ Champion from my supplier. You wanted PRG? or still hovering the flag? :lol: :bandit:


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## SNOWBOB11

@davegravy You decided not to go all KBG?


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## davegravy

SNOWBOB11 said:


> @davegravy You decided not to go all KBG?


Correct. I like the benefit of the quick germination (protection from washout) and from several accounts I've read the kbg tends to mostly push out the PRG after a few years.


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## Stuofsci02

Babameca said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which seed is this?
> 
> 
> 
> Low Mow Bluegrass Tee Mixture from Oscseed.
> 
> Same as @Babameca used I believe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mine was No8. 35% Everest.
> @Stuofsci02 Can get GQ Champion from my supplier. You wanted PRG? or still hovering the flag? :lol: :bandit:
Click to expand...

Yes I am definitely interested. I've decedide to repair the back this fall with a prg overseed. I'll be doing a lot of other projects so full Kbg Reno just isn't in the cards.

@davegravy when did you order this and did you pick it up or get it shipped?


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## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> @davegravy when did you order this and did you pick it up or get it shipped?


Ordered a couple weeks ago, picked up next day - it's all stocked I believe.


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## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy when did you order this and did you pick it up or get it shipped?
> 
> 
> 
> Ordered a couple weeks ago, picked up next day - it's all stocked I believe.
Click to expand...

Did you have to go to Waterloo area to pick it up? How much did you order? Thanks for the info!


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## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy when did you order this and did you pick it up or get it shipped?
> 
> 
> 
> Ordered a couple weeks ago, picked up next day - it's all stocked I believe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you have to go to Waterloo area to pick it up? How much did you order? Thanks for the info!
Click to expand...

Happy to help. Yes, I drove to Waterloo. Stopped by on our way to my in laws (London).

For the non-residential mixes with elite cultivars they don't deal in less than 50lb bags so that's what I got.


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## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ordered a couple weeks ago, picked up next day - it's all stocked I believe.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you have to go to Waterloo area to pick it up? How much did you order? Thanks for the info!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Happy to help. Yes, I drove to Waterloo. Stopped by on our way to my in laws (London).
> 
> For the non-residential mixes with elite cultivars they don't deal in less than 50lb bags so that's what I got.
Click to expand...

Awesome! If you don't Ming me asking, how much was the 50 pounder?


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## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you have to go to Waterloo area to pick it up? How much did you order? Thanks for the info!
> 
> 
> 
> Happy to help. Yes, I drove to Waterloo. Stopped by on our way to my in laws (London).
> 
> For the non-residential mixes with elite cultivars they don't deal in less than 50lb bags so that's what I got.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Awesome! If you don't Ming me asking, how much was the 50 pounder?
Click to expand...

It was either $350 or 380, can't remember.


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## davegravy

Had to take off for a week and didn't get my irrigation set up fully in time, only one side. Looks like pushing root growth in the spring and fall did good things for drought tolerance.

Finally dominating neighbours



Bit of stress on the right side where I don't have irrigation yet but it's still a vast improvement over this spring and last summer.



Now that I'm in the groove I'm gonna nuke it all? Seems crazy, but yes!


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## Babameca

Yes, yes!
Exact same story here. I started over when my lawn was at its best since I have a yard... :nod:


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## Stuofsci02

@davegravy Looks great... Is there a reel in your future?


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## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> @davegravy Looks great... Is there a reel in your future?


Do it. You'll fall in love.... No pressure...but seriously. Do. It.

I thought I loved lawn care last year when I was cutting high...pffff. The amount of comments and compliments I get these days is on a whole another level. The low game is so addicting.

:lol:


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## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> @davegravy Looks great... Is there a reel in your future?


That's the dream 😛 I haven't yet gotten to figuring out the logistics and if it's at all practical for me - but I fully intend to look into it.


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## davegravy

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy Looks great... Is there a reel in your future?
> 
> 
> 
> Do it. You'll fall in love.... No pressure...but seriously. Do. It.
> 
> I thought I loved lawn care last year when I was cutting high...pffff. The amount of comments and compliments I get these days is on a whole another level. The low game is so addicting.
> 
> :lol:
Click to expand...

From what I've seen on TLF the biggest impact qualities of a lawn are (not sure the order):

1) green in the heat of summer when everyone else is brown
2) low mow / striped
3) dark colour

I've got #1 figured out, working on #3, hopefully #2 soon after 😛


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## jrubb42

davegravy said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy Looks great... Is there a reel in your future?
> 
> 
> 
> Do it. You'll fall in love.... No pressure...but seriously. Do. It.
> 
> I thought I loved lawn care last year when I was cutting high...pffff. The amount of comments and compliments I get these days is on a whole another level. The low game is so addicting.
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I've seen on TLF the biggest impact qualities of a lawn are (not sure the order):
> 
> 1) green in the heat of summer when everyone else is brown
> 2) low mow / striped
> 3) dark colour
> 
> I've got #1 figured out, working on #3, hopefully #2 soon after 😛
Click to expand...

I'd agree 100% with your assessment. The hardest part for me was getting from high to low, which you will have no issue with because you're renovating.

The only obstacle in your way is buying a greensmower. The rest is cake!


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## davegravy

jrubb42 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do it. You'll fall in love.... No pressure...but seriously. Do. It.
> 
> I thought I loved lawn care last year when I was cutting high...pffff. The amount of comments and compliments I get these days is on a whole another level. The low game is so addicting.
> 
> :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I've seen on TLF the biggest impact qualities of a lawn are (not sure the order):
> 
> 1) green in the heat of summer when everyone else is brown
> 2) low mow / striped
> 3) dark colour
> 
> I've got #1 figured out, working on #3, hopefully #2 soon after 😛
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'd agree 100% with your assessment. The hardest part for me was getting from high to low, which you will have no issue with because you're renovating.
> 
> The only obstacle in your way is buying a greensmower. The rest is cake!
Click to expand...

I see, so you're advocating doing it now rather than later to avoid the transition pain 😛. Fair.

I know you're being facetious but obstacles include my better half, where to store the thing, will it work well on the degree of slope I have, where can it be serviced around me, how expensive is maintenance, etc.

Just haven't done any research yet. The other day I jumped off a dock into water I knew to be damn frigid and I have similar anxiety around pulling the trigger on roundup-ing the yard. I can't see past that step yet lol.

Maybe as I'm impatiently waiting for my kbg to pass the sprout and pout stage will be the right time 😜


----------



## jrubb42

@davegravy those are all fair rebuttals. I kind of forgot that I was planning on going low in March, so I had a couple months of research without any other yard work to tend to (or anything else on my mind really).

I was planning a renovation until a couple days ago and the hardest part for me was thinking that I had to gly the whole yard. So trust me I feel you on that! If you really are planning to go low sometime in the near future, I'd recommend keeping you mowing height lower than higher - just for the ease of transition. I know renovating is stressful enough so I'll leave you alone now. Just something to think about lol.


----------



## davegravy

jrubb42 said:


> @davegravy those are all fair rebuttals. I kind of forgot that I was planning on going low in March, so I had a couple months of research without any other yard work to tend to (or anything else on my mind really).
> 
> I was planning a renovation until a couple days ago and the hardest part for me was thinking that I had to gly the whole yard. So trust me I feel you on that! If you really are planning to go low sometime in the near future, I'd recommend keeping you mowing height lower than higher - just for the ease of transition. I know renovating is stressful enough so I'll leave you alone now. Just something to think about lol.


I did a one notch drop on my mower last August and the lawn looked just awful for weeks so I hear you loud and clear :nod: One nice thing with the reno is I hope to get the yard seriously level so I should be able to cut lower than I am with the rotary without scalping. That should help things like you say when I move to a reel.

And you don't have to "leave me alone" I appreciate the encouragement :bandit:


----------



## Harts

@davegravy I just wanted to clarify one thing regarding scalping - it is very difficult to scalp with a reel mower. My backyard is FAR from level and I have yet to scalp my yard. You should certainly try to obtain the most level yard you can get, but don't ever think it's not "level enough" and let that discourage you from getting a reel (if you end up deciding to go that route in the future).


----------



## davegravy

Harts said:


> @davegravy I just wanted to clarify one thing regarding scalping - it is very difficult to scalp with a reel mower. My backyard is FAR from level and I have yet to scalp my yard. You should certainly try to obtain the most level yard you can get, but don't ever think it's not "level enough" and let that discourage you from getting a reel (if you end up deciding to go that route in the future).


Ahh yes, a definite benefit to reel mowing. But I do recall someone on here (I think it was @jrubb42 ) dropped their HOC drastically when they switched to reel mowing and the result was the entire lawn got scalped. So I'm hoping to avoid that by mowing as low as possible with my rotary for now, and to do that levelling is much more critical I expect.


----------



## jrubb42

@davegravy yes that was me. Haha. But honestly it would not have been a big deal if I would've just scalped BELOW my intended HOC. I kept cutting over and over at the same HOC and therefore repeatedly scalped my lawn over and over again....Fun times. Lol.

If I had to do it all over again I would have scalped down to 3/8 or 1/2 inch and brought it back to 1 inch after that initial scalp.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy There is nothing pratcitcal aroung lawn care... It is a passion.
Agree 100% with @Harts . A cilynder mower WILL make your yard flatter. It will first, cut, much more even. And, second, will slowly over time flatten the soil too.
You are heading into a reno. It is the best time to start cutting low. @jrubb42 suffered a lot with a 2'' HOC spoiled child. When you start low from scratch, you will avoid all the frustration.
Picking a reel mower IMO is not about the brand, but how it is going to be maintened aka maintenability cost.
I paid 50% more for older mower, but have the luxury to get it picked up, fixed/sharpenned and delivered back to me at low cost and fast (2-3 days turnover). It is also stored away for the winter by the same guy.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy There is nothing pratcitcal aroung lawn care... It is a passion.
> Agree 100% with @Harts . A cilynder mower WILL make your yard flatter. It will first, cut, much more even. And, second, will slowly over time flatten the soil too.
> You are heading into a reno. It is the best time to start cutting low. @jrubb42 suffered a lot with a 2'' HOC spoiled child. When you start low from scratch, you will avoid all the frustration.
> Picking a reel mower IMO is not about the brand, but how it is going to be maintened aka maintenability cost.
> I paid 50% more for older mower, but have the luxury to get it picked up, fixed/sharpenned and delivered back to me at low cost and fast (2-3 days turnover). It is also stored away for the winter by the same guy.


You guys are kiling me :lol: You're like my personal fitness trainer but for lawncare.... "don't wimp out on me, you can do more!" I love it 

I just don't want to bite off more than I can chew for the season, but I will seriously consider what you're suggesting.


----------



## davegravy

The red rectangle is the area I think I've decided I'm targetting for the reno. It's 46ft x 55ft. I have irrigation coverage now for this area, as well as the small 4' wide strip at the bottom but I need a walking path to get to and from the shed (for lawnmower etc) and also a place to run a hose so I can water the section at the very back (I'll move an oscillating sprinkler between that and the "L" cutout behind the garage which is now grass).

Next year I'll get irrigation going to the remaining backyard areas and reno them plus the frontyard.

As an aside, building and testing an irrigation system while trying to actually water the grass to keep up with this heat is very challenging.

Wednesday I'm looking at putting down the roundup. So nervous...


----------



## jrubb42

davegravy said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy There is nothing pratcitcal aroung lawn care... It is a passion.
> Agree 100% with @Harts . A cilynder mower WILL make your yard flatter. It will first, cut, much more even. And, second, will slowly over time flatten the soil too.
> You are heading into a reno. It is the best time to start cutting low. @jrubb42 suffered a lot with a 2'' HOC spoiled child. When you start low from scratch, you will avoid all the frustration.
> Picking a reel mower IMO is not about the brand, but how it is going to be maintened aka maintenability cost.
> I paid 50% more for older mower, but have the luxury to get it picked up, fixed/sharpenned and delivered back to me at low cost and fast (2-3 days turnover). It is also stored away for the winter by the same guy.
> 
> 
> 
> You guys are kiling me :lol: You're like my personal fitness trainer but for lawncare.... "don't wimp out on me, you can do more!" I love it
> 
> I just don't want to bite off more than I can chew for the season, but I will seriously consider what you're suggesting.
Click to expand...


----------



## Stuofsci02

@davegravy ... You don't need to bow to peer pressure and get a reel mower. There's nothing wrong with a generic 2.5" HOC. Just think of it as the Rick Astley of mowing heights.. At 2.5 inches its never gonna let you down....


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> @davegravy ... You don't need to bow to peer pressure and get a reel mower. There's nothing wrong with a generic 2.5" HOC. Just think of it as the Rick Astley of mowing heights.. At 2.5 inches its never gonna let you down....


Thanks for that... I'll just be Rickrolling my rotary along


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Is it too much hassle to include the stirpe. You can walk on the new grass. Not ideal, but it will be a more complete project IMO.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Is it too much hassle to include the stirpe. You can walk on the new grass. Not ideal, but it will be a more complete project IMO.


Hmm good point. Suppose I could include it but still limit my walking to that strip. Maybe then just do plug repair next year for any damaged areas. I could cut the back area low and hit it hard with pgr so it won't need a mow in a while, store the mower in the garage for front yard cuts.

I have some plastic sheeting I should probably put along the fence line so I don't get roundup overspray on the neighbour's plantings eh? Put it back up at seed time so I don't fill her garden with grass...


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy sheeting is good. I had my wife walking along when I was spaying holding a 6 foot carboard. After seeding, I had to be pulling(and still am) KBG from my garden beds. It is great, I use it for plugging small holes from animals...


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy ... You don't need to bow to peer pressure and get a reel mower. There's nothing wrong with a generic 2.5" HOC. Just think of it as the Rick Astley of mowing heights.. At 2.5 inches its never gonna let you down....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thanks for that... I'll just be Rickrolling my rotary along
Click to expand...

LOL...


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy sheeting is good. I had my wife walking along when I was spaying holding a 6 foot carboard. After seeding, I had to be pulling(and still am) KBG from my garden beds. It is great, I use it for plugging small holes from animals...


I'm happy to have extra KBG in my garden beds  The neighbour however has already given me grief. The joys of chainlink fencing


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy No fences here (not allowed by the city for aesthetic reasons, cedars are ok). My KBG slowly creeps into my neighbor's...


----------



## davegravy

OMG it's raining!!!! like, hard.

Also day 10 of germination test:


A few still ungerminated, not sure if it's more than should be expected...


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy You have PRG to be mowed, one KBG already tillering, one just germinating and one that is still doing nothing. One more week or so fot the lazy one. But it is (IME) the prettiest.


----------



## davegravy

When we have to put down a pet because of old age/illness, we always take a last photo to help us remember.

Here she is in her final moments. She had a nice inch of rain after a month of almost nothing and was happily soaking that up when we gave her the sleeping medicine. Was very difficult to bring myself to do it, but I know it's for the best and there's a better future ahead.



I wrote a eulogy but I'll spare you from it 

Still have to roundup spray the final strips next to the neighbours but I lost the light and wanted to take my time with that.


----------



## Stuofsci02

I shed a tear...


----------



## davegravy

Also I gave CA a shot for the first time. 1 gallon of carrier, measured my water pH at 7.6. A 1/2 teaspoon of CA brought it down to 3.8. Then I added 1.7oz AS, brought it down to pH 3.2. Then 3oz of FS, which stayed nice blue-green coloured. Sprayed it this evening on the front yard and going to rinse in the morning. Fingers crossed it works better than past applications.


----------



## davegravy

Anyone know, once my grass is good and dead and I'm fallowing, do I need to water so deeply? Presumably I'm only concerned with weed seeds in the top couple inches of soil?


----------



## Babameca

davegravy said:


> Anyone know, once my grass is good and dead and I'm fallowing, do I need to water so deeply? Presumably I'm only concerned with weed seeds in the top couple inches of soil?


Keep on watering if it does not break the bill. Not every day, but give it a good soak 12-24 hours after the glypho. Spice up your apps with AS. The tenacity at seed down will take care of the rest. If you dont have a major Poa T or other unkillable weed problem, you will be perfectly fine!
Goodbye Dave's lawn! Long live Dave's lawn! :bandit:


----------



## BBLOCK

anxiety level?


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> anxiety level?


7/10... What if the roundup doesn't work because there was so much dew last night, and I just wasted it all. What if it works but the new lawn doesn't establish and I have a garbage yard for a year... These are the thoughts running through my head 😅


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> BBLOCK said:
> 
> 
> 
> anxiety level?
> 
> 
> 
> 7/10... What if the roundup doesn't work because there was so much dew last night, and I just wasted it all. What if it works but the new lawn doesn't establish and I have a garbage yard for a year... These are the thoughts running through my head 😅
Click to expand...

The roundup will work.... But there is always risk with the new lawn. I assume you will use Tenacity at seed down? Peat Moss too?


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Here it comes...
Patience. Roundup works slowly, and the slower it is, the better. Give it a week, 10 days. You have plenty of time. With the heat we have and stretched falls you are on for success!
I started later, forgot a spot that was seeded 10 days later and still made it up. KBG is an alpha grass. Once it gets going...


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBLOCK said:
> 
> 
> 
> anxiety level?
> 
> 
> 
> 7/10... What if the roundup doesn't work because there was so much dew last night, and I just wasted it all. What if it works but the new lawn doesn't establish and I have a garbage yard for a year... These are the thoughts running through my head 😅
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The roundup will work.... But there is always risk with the new lawn. I assume you will use Tenacity at seed down? Peat Moss too?
Click to expand...

Tenacity I have. Peat moss I'm hoping to but haven't gotten to sourcing/pricing it, which I feel I should get on top of. Was just about to call about topsoil/sand delivery for next week.


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 7/10... What if the roundup doesn't work because there was so much dew last night, and I just wasted it all. What if it works but the new lawn doesn't establish and I have a garbage yard for a year... These are the thoughts running through my head 😅
> 
> 
> 
> The roundup will work.... But there is always risk with the new lawn. I assume you will use Tenacity at seed down? Peat Moss too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tenacity I have. Peat moss I'm hoping to but haven't gotten to sourcing/pricing it, which I feel I should get on top of. Was just about to call about topsoil/sand delivery for next week.
Click to expand...

Peat moss is $8-$10 per bag. You will probably need 12 bags IMO... Easy to get at TSC, home depot.... Just plan on getting only 2-4 bags at a time depending on what type of car you have


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The roundup will work.... But there is always risk with the new lawn. I assume you will use Tenacity at seed down? Peat Moss too?
> 
> 
> 
> Tenacity I have. Peat moss I'm hoping to but haven't gotten to sourcing/pricing it, which I feel I should get on top of. Was just about to call about topsoil/sand delivery for next week.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Peat moss is $8-$10 per bag. You will probably need 12 bags IMO... Easy to get at TSC, home depot.... Just plan on getting only 2-4 bags at a time depending on what type of car you have
Click to expand...

Thanks. Just need enough to barely cover the seed right?

Any suggestions for how much topsoil/sand mix I should get for levelling 2750sqft?

I'm looking at these

http://www.earthcosoils.com/media/Earthco-Prices-2018.pdf

Specifically the 60/40 Topsoil/Sand Mix or the Triple/Sand Mix. Ideal if I don't need to mix stuff myself.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Peat moss yes, dusting on only.
For the levelling, do you need grading or only levelling? There are plenty of calculators for that and even the supplier can tell you how much do you need, based on how thick do you want to go. In your case, have more is better, than running out.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Peat moss yes, dusting on only.
> For the levelling, do you need grading or only levelling? There are plenty of calculators for that and even the supplier can tell you how much do you need, based on how thick do you want to go. In your case, have more is better, than running out.


I don't really know if it's so severe I need to call it grading. There are a few bad ~4-5" deep but narrow valleys around, but mostly it's just a bumpy ride for my lawn mower. There's one maybe 5' x 10' area that could be raised a few inches.

I've seen those calculators but I have no idea what to put in for the thickness of top dressing I want. Quarter inch? Half inch? Like I said I have some areas that need more than others.

I figure if I focus on / target the major stuff, I can smooth the minor stuff with sand top dressing year over year in the future.


----------



## Stuofsci02

If you need to fill in areas I would look at 70% sand and 30% soil. For the rest you could probably use the same or all sand. If you are only doing 2750 sqft you can cut the peat moss I mentioned in half.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Go with 1/2'' to 3/4''. I put 1/4 sand this spring and in an week it has vanished inside the canopy. Do you plan to aerate and dethatch?


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Go with 1/2'' to 3/4''. I put 1/4 sand this spring and in an week it has vanished inside the canopy. Do you plan to aerate and dethatch?


Thanks. Dethatch yes, aerate no. My soil is so sandy, compaction is a foreign concept. I don't have a ton of thatch either but I'm planning to use the sun joe scarifier before seed down as a sort of slit seeder, which will probably pull up some thatch


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> If you need to fill in areas I would look at 70% sand and 30% soil. For the rest you could probably use the same or all sand. If you are only doing 2750 sqft you can cut the peat moss I mentioned in half.


For soil I assume you mean screened topsoil, not some of the other products out there...

So when you did it did you order sand and soil separately and mix it yourself? I've seen videos of some doing this, but seems like adding a lot of work to an already big job.


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you need to fill in areas I would look at 70% sand and 30% soil. For the rest you could probably use the same or all sand. If you are only doing 2750 sqft you can cut the peat moss I mentioned in half.
> 
> 
> 
> For soil I assume you mean screened topsoil, not some of the other products out there...
> 
> So when you did it did you order sand and soil separately and mix it yourself? I've seen videos of some doing this, but seems like adding a lot of work to an already big job.
Click to expand...

I didn't do it yet....


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy 70/30 is basically pure sand. Great to level on, but dries out like nothing you can immagine.
You will need a spot on 5-6 times a day watering for 3 weeks. Just keep in mind. The peat will help a bit.


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you need to fill in areas I would look at 70% sand and 30% soil. For the rest you could probably use the same or all sand. If you are only doing 2750 sqft you can cut the peat moss I mentioned in half.
> 
> 
> 
> For soil I assume you mean screened topsoil, not some of the other products out there...
> 
> So when you did it did you order sand and soil separately and mix it yourself? I've seen videos of some doing this, but seems like adding a lot of work to an already big job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't do it yet....
Click to expand...

Oops lol I misread and thought @Babameca wrote that one!


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy I did top soil (30ish % sand, dirt and some compost). For the levelling this year it is 70/30 USGA sand. Barely 1/4'' per app for 2 apps, spring and fall. The ugly pile on all of my pics is the remaining part.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy I did top soil (30ish % sand, dirt and some compost). For the levelling this year it is 70/30 USGA sand. Barely 1/4'' per app for 2 apps, spring and fall. The ugly pile on all of my pics is the remaining part.


But did you mix yourself or you found a product premixed?


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Both times premixed


----------



## davegravy

48 hours after FAS spray. I had added CA this time and it looks like I'm not getting any of the annoying blackening that I got spraying earlier in the year without it, and maybe even a bit of greenup... it's hard to say.

I remember there was a few patches that had some pretty obvious chlorosis happening that I can't really see anymore, so it might have darkened those areas and done not much to the rest.



Babameca said:


> @davegravy Both times premixed


This would be my preference, but there seems to be limited options around here. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. Lots of vendors carry topsoil and sand as separates, and the topsoil undoubtedly has some sand in it, but unlikely 70%. I'll keep digging.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy call golf courses near you, ask them where do they get it. @RozWeston where did you get yours?


----------



## RozWeston

Babameca said:


> @davegravy call golf courses near you, ask them where do they get it. @RozWeston where did you get yours?


Took me a while to find this place, but here ya go. Super easy to deal with, but NOT cheap! I paid way more for the 80/20 mix than any of the other guys who do lawn vids.

https://hutchesonsand.com/sports-fields/topdressing-sands-mixes/


----------



## davegravy

RozWeston said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy call golf courses near you, ask them where do they get it. @RozWeston where did you get yours?
> 
> 
> 
> Took me a while to find this place, but here ya go. Super easy to deal with, but NOT cheap! I paid way more for the 80/20 mix than any of the other guys who do lawn vids.
> 
> https://hutchesonsand.com/sports-fields/topdressing-sands-mixes/
Click to expand...

Thanks Roz. I have a lot fewer sqft than you so hopefully it won't break the bank as bad. I'll give them a call.

Do you remember did you order enough for 0.5"? 0.75?


----------



## davegravy

What's that feeling called when you apply a bunch of granular fertilizer and just as you finish a nice system rolls in and gradually drops an inch of rain on you?

It's like spa day for your lawn.


----------



## davegravy

Day 13 germination test. Some of these just germinated, just a few still ungerminated.



Impressed with the length of the roots that pushed straight through the paper towel.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy How's the belate lawn doing


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy How's the belate lawn doing




... I THINK I'm seeing a bit of a brown haze starting


----------



## davegravy

Lawn in the reno area is starting to matt / lie down in places. It's 3" right now. I'm wondering when I should start bag mowing.


----------



## g-man

Yes you should. You should drop that hoc too.


----------



## davegravy

g-man said:


> Yes you should. You should drop that hoc too.


Thanks for confirming that. Dropped hoc from 3" to 2". Clear difference now between the reno and non reno area


----------



## Babameca

Here it goes...in only a few days, you will clearly see if you missed some areas, but from the pictures it looks like you were pretty good.


----------



## DAM Lawn

Looking more like a municipal lawn now minus the weeds.


----------



## davegravy

DAM Lawn said:


> Looking more like a municipal lawn now minus the weeds.


Accurate 🤣


----------



## davegravy

Poa Triv hanging on for dear life. Interesting that it's taking much longer to die than the rest. It is more shaded which probably contributes.



I called a couple golf courses. One discouraged using a sand/soil mix and said go 100% screened topsoil and do pure sand topdressing every year to level after the turf is established. The other referred me to Hutchinson Sand (same place @RozWeston used)

*Hutchenson Sand:*

Has 60/40, 70/30, and 80/20... so I requested a quote but I'm bracing for a big $ figure.

*Earthcosoils*
http://www.earthcosoils.com/media/Earthco-Prices-2018.pdf

They recommended premium topsoil which is 50-60% compost, 10-30% sand, 10-30% peat-loam, screened at 1/4". Not enough sand I figure. I asked about the 60/40 soil/sand mix and the representative said that's more for commercial uses - but didn't really identify why that was a problem. It's also 1/4" screened which seems pretty coarse to me (is it?)

EDIT I just saw this on their site:



Could be a good choice??

*Supersoils*

https://www.supersoils.com/shop (under "Golf Course Products"...)
They have two 80/20 products, one where the 20 is peat and one where the 20 is compost. For both the 80 is USGA sand.  Nevermind, not available. They do have divot mix though which seems to have high sand content.

I'll be honest I'm not sure I know what I'm doing with the soil part of this reno!


----------



## jrubb42

davegravy said:


> Poa Triv hanging on for dear life. Interesting that it's taking much longer to die than the rest. It is more shaded which probably contributes.
> 
> 
> 
> I called a couple golf courses. One discouraged using a sand/soil mix and said go 100% screened topsoil and do pure sand topdressing every year to level after the turf is established. The other referred me to Hutchinson Sand (same place @RozWeston used)
> 
> *Hutchenson Sand:*
> 
> Has 60/40, 70/30, and 80/20... so I requested a quote but I'm bracing for a big $ figure.
> 
> *Earthcosoils*
> http://www.earthcosoils.com/media/Earthco-Prices-2018.pdf
> 
> They recommended premium topsoil which is 50-60% compost, 10-30% sand, 10-30% peat-loam, screened at 1/4". Not enough sand I figure. I asked about the 60/40 soil/sand mix and the representative said that's more for commercial uses - but didn't really identify why that was a problem. It's also 1/4" screened which seems pretty coarse to me (is it?)
> 
> EDIT I just saw this on their site:
> 
> 
> 
> Could be a good choice??
> 
> *Supersoils*
> 
> https://www.supersoils.com/shop (under "Golf Course Products"...)
> They have two 80/20 products, one where the 20 is peat and one where the 20 is compost. For both the 80 is USGA sand. I'm not sure which one I'd want to pick of the two options?
> 
> I'll be honest I'm not sure I know what I'm doing with the soil part of this reno!


I've seen this question come up multiple times on this site (including myself) and no one has really gotten a straight answer that I've seen.

Why was the one golf course so adamant on going 100% screened topsoil and sand after? I'm just curious of his reasoning behind that.


----------



## davegravy

jrubb42 said:


> Why was the one golf course so adamant on going 100% screened topsoil and sand after? I'm just curious of his reasoning behind that.


I was too but he seemed to kind of dodge the question and I decided not to push him on it since I was getting free advice.

Also every soil supplier I call reacts with surprise when I say I want so much sand in the mix for a residential lawn. I try to defend my preference by saying I'm told soil tends to shift and doesn't maintain its level like sand does, but I get these long pauses in response and it's like I'm speaking greek to them :lol: Frustrating!

Maybe I should just say I'm a golf course and I need product for a very small fairway.

Also other than Hutcheson, I'm generally disappointed by the lack of knowledge the representatives of these soil suppliers have. It's like their job description is limited to taking orders and scheduling deliveries, they get annoyed if you ask questions about the product...


----------



## BBLOCK

haha because it's not normal to care about dirt.

i have a couple buddies who own landscape companies and I've asked them where do I get a 80 sand 20 organic material mix and they have no idea...

so that doesn't help me, but I'll likely make my own just trying to figure out what I should use as the organic material.

but I also have access to some small equipment that could help me mix it and I have a dump trailer to bring it home. but im very interested in what you go with here. So much effort to source things.


----------



## jrubb42

davegravy said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why was the one golf course so adamant on going 100% screened topsoil and sand after? I'm just curious of his reasoning behind that.
> 
> 
> 
> I was too but he seemed to kind of dodge the question and I decided not to push him on it since I was getting free advice.
> 
> Also every soil supplier I call reacts with surprise when I say I want so much sand in the mix for a residential lawn. I try to defend my preference by saying I'm told soil tends to shift and doesn't maintain its level like sand does, but I get these long pauses in response and it's like I'm speaking greek to them :lol: Frustrating!
> 
> Maybe I should just say I'm a golf course and I need product for a very small fairway.
> 
> Also other than Hutcheson, I'm generally disappointed by the lack of knowledge the representatives of these soil suppliers have. It's like their job description is limited to taking orders and scheduling deliveries, they get annoyed if you ask questions about the product...
Click to expand...

So glad I'm not alone in this. I called three different places to get advice and they had no idea what they were talking about or they would act dumbfounded that I asked them about soil mixes. Craziness. If it's any consolation, I landed on getting 50% soil/50% sand when I picked out mine...Reno had to be cancelled though..


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy @jrubb42 Don't over think the initial layer at seed down. As long it is as much as possible weed seeds free, it is ok. More sand % will make the job keeping it wet a galore! I did the avreage Joe topsoil last year and it all ended just fine! Then I started topdressing with sand. FYI Dave, I paid 27CAN per ton for the USGA mix. Not bad. But it came from far and the transport was more expensive than the 8 tons I oredred. It rounds up at 600ish clicks...  Do top soil if you know it is clean.
From now on, I get my buddy F150 and get 2 tons at a time...for 54$ :bandit:


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy @jrubb42 Don't over think the initial layer at seed down. As long it is as much as possible weed seeds free, it is ok. More sand % will make the job keeping it wet a galore! I did the avreage Joe topsoil last year and it all ended just fine! Then I started topdressing with sand. FYI Dave, I paid 27CAN per ton for the USGA mix. Not bad. But it came from far and the transport was more expensive than the 8 tons I oredred. It rounds up at 600ish clicks...  Do top soil if you know it is clean.
> From now on, I get my buddy F150 and get 2 tons at a time...for 54$ :bandit:


I'm concerned because @Harts has said on a few occasions that plain topsoil gave him trouble and that the sand is critical to having a levelling that lasts. I suppose I could buy some bags of sand from the hardware store to mix in just for the few worst low spots and use pure topsoil everywhere else. Then switch to pure sand for levelling in future years.

Also I assume the peat moss topping will help with the problem of sand and seed drying out that you mention.


----------



## Harts

davegravy said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy @jrubb42 Don't over think the initial layer at seed down. As long it is as much as possible weed seeds free, it is ok. More sand % will make the job keeping it wet a galore! I did the avreage Joe topsoil last year and it all ended just fine! Then I started topdressing with sand. FYI Dave, I paid 27CAN per ton for the USGA mix. Not bad. But it came from far and the transport was more expensive than the 8 tons I oredred. It rounds up at 600ish clicks...  Do top soil if you know it is clean.
> From now on, I get my buddy F150 and get 2 tons at a time...for 54$ :bandit:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm concerned because @Harts has said on a few occasions that plain topsoil gave him trouble and that the sand is critical to having a levelling that lasts. I suppose I could buy some bags of sand from the hardware store to mix in just for the few worst low spots and use pure topsoil everywhere else. Then switch to pure sand for levelling in future years.
> 
> Also I assume the peat moss topping will help with the problem of sand and seed drying out that you mention.
Click to expand...

I feel like I've created a monster for you Dave! Since you have nuked your lawn, I wouldn't hesitate too much about using soil to level. Part of my issue with soil for leveling comes from laying it over existing grass. You can't put too much down at the risk of smothering your grass. I feel like a little soil doesn't do much to level.

However, you are renovating. You have the ability to put down as much as you want. Your grass is already dead. I would just make sure you roll it really well to compact it. I would also water it to help it settle prior to seed down, if you can, then add a little more in any areas where low spots have popped back up.

If you are looking at the mix of sand/compost or sand/peat, I would get the peat. You can't trust what is in the compost. You are likely to get wood chips and other debris you don't want in your lawn.

Additionally, as long as you use Tenacity at seed down you won't have to worry too much about weeds.


----------



## davegravy

Harts said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy @jrubb42 Don't over think the initial layer at seed down. As long it is as much as possible weed seeds free, it is ok. More sand % will make the job keeping it wet a galore! I did the avreage Joe topsoil last year and it all ended just fine! Then I started topdressing with sand. FYI Dave, I paid 27CAN per ton for the USGA mix. Not bad. But it came from far and the transport was more expensive than the 8 tons I oredred. It rounds up at 600ish clicks...  Do top soil if you know it is clean.
> From now on, I get my buddy F150 and get 2 tons at a time...for 54$ :bandit:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm concerned because @Harts has said on a few occasions that plain topsoil gave him trouble and that the sand is critical to having a levelling that lasts. I suppose I could buy some bags of sand from the hardware store to mix in just for the few worst low spots and use pure topsoil everywhere else. Then switch to pure sand for levelling in future years.
> 
> Also I assume the peat moss topping will help with the problem of sand and seed drying out that you mention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I feel like I've created a monster for you Dave! Since you have nuked your lawn, I wouldn't hesitate too much about using soil to level. Part of my issue with soil for leveling comes from laying it over existing grass. You can't put too much down at the risk of smothering your grass. I feel like a little soil doesn't do much to level.
> 
> However, you are renovating. You have the ability to put down as much as you want. Your grass is already dead. I would just make sure you roll it really well to compact it. I would also water it to help it settle prior to seed down, if you can, then add a little more in any areas where low spots have popped back up.
> 
> If you are looking at the mix of sand/compost or sand/peat, I would get the peat. You can't trust what is in the compost. You are likely to get wood chips and other debris you don't want in your lawn.
> 
> Additionally, as long as you use Tenacity at seed down you won't have to worry too much about weeds.
Click to expand...

Ok thanks for that, definitely seems like it'll be much easier (and cheaper!) to source straight topsoil.


----------



## davegravy

OK, so here's my plan for the near future. Let me know any issues you see.

* Order soil
* Scarify (I applied a 4 month rate Prodiamine around Apr 15, that should expire by seed down, but I'm not taking any chances so I want to break up the barrier a bit before I cover it with topsoil)
* Spread soil / level
* Roll
* Fallow
* More round up
* Fallow

Then around Aug 15:

* Round up
* Quick re-level with remaining soil for anything that's settled/sunk.
* Scarify
* Tenacity
* Spread seed
* Spread peat
* Roll


----------



## BBLOCK

u got this. how's the wife taking it lol


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> u got this. how's the wife taking it lol


Surprisingly well  She did say the lawn looks like a half-shaven dog right now, maybe I should have renoed the whole yard lol. Also she questioned why I killed it after spending so much time and money on improving it. Tried to explain none of that was wasted but not sure the message made it through  I'll just have to make sure she's blown away by the final product.


----------



## BBLOCK

davegravy said:


> BBLOCK said:
> 
> 
> 
> u got this. how's the wife taking it lol
> 
> 
> 
> Surprisingly well  She did say the lawn looks like a half-shaven dog right now, maybe I should have renoed the whole yard lol. Also she questioned why I killed it after spending so much time and money on improving it. Tried to explain none of that was wasted but not sure the message made it through  I'll just have to make sure she's blown away by the final product.
Click to expand...

yeah your lawn is just moving into adulthood now, it knows what it wants to be when it's all grown up. just have to kill the child first before it can be an adult lawn. lol

she'll want to be making grass angels next summer lol


----------



## jrubb42

davegravy said:


> BBLOCK said:
> 
> 
> 
> u got this. how's the wife taking it lol
> 
> 
> 
> Surprisingly well  She did say the lawn looks like a half-shaven dog right now, maybe I should have renoed the whole yard lol. Also she questioned why I killed it after spending so much time and money on improving it. Tried to explain none of that was wasted but not sure the message made it through  I'll just have to make sure she's blown away by the final product.
Click to expand...

Tell her everything you put down made the soil healthier. So money and time were not wasted because it drastically improved the soil over time. Then she will probably say...."why are you bringing in more soil then?" lmao.


----------



## Babameca

My wife just said: You are crazy... and let me do my thing.
Today...she loves the lawn, but still thinks I am crazy. Go figure. She may be right.


----------



## davegravy

jrubb42 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBLOCK said:
> 
> 
> 
> u got this. how's the wife taking it lol
> 
> 
> 
> Surprisingly well  She did say the lawn looks like a half-shaven dog right now, maybe I should have renoed the whole yard lol. Also she questioned why I killed it after spending so much time and money on improving it. Tried to explain none of that was wasted but not sure the message made it through  I'll just have to make sure she's blown away by the final product.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tell her everything you put down made the soil healthier. So money and time were not wasted because it drastically improved the soil over time. Then she will probably say...."why are you bringing in more soil then?" lmao.
Click to expand...

Yup, I did, and she stared back at me with those "you're so full of s---" eyes. I haven't told her about the soil yet. Waiting for the right moment to bring that up lol


----------



## davegravy

I can still drop the HOC one more setting on my rotary. Any reason why I shouldn't do that after roundup's got a complete kill (still a few areas with a bit of green, particularly the triv patch)? I feel like it would make it easier to see leveling issues.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Drop the HOC when it's time to drop the soil down. Now, still alive leaf tissue shoud be enough to get future glypho apps. The 'fuller' the kill, the better. Patience... :mrgreen:


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Drop the HOC when it's time to drop the soil down. Now, still alive leaf tissue shoud be enough to get future glypho apps. The 'fuller' the kill, the better. Patience... :mrgreen:


Sounds good. On the topic of future glypho apps... It's been 1 week since I applied, and most of lawn has gone fairly brown. There are a few thin strips I clearly missed (not quite enough overlap) which I spot treated yesterday.

There are a couple larger areas that I obviously didn't miss because they started to go brown but in the last day or so seem to have gotten more green, as if they survived the roundup and are recovering. Then there's the shady area where I have Triv which has browned a bit but nowhere near as much as the rest of the lawn. I'll try to snap a photo later of the progress and lack of progress.

The guide doesn't show the 2nd roundup application until the week after next, after I put down topsoil. I just wanted to make sure I shouldn't move it up in the schedule based on any of these things.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy I may have missed it...when is your seed down date? or better your next steps date


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy I may have missed it...when is your seed down date? or better your next steps date


Planned seed down is around Aug 15. I was planning to do topsoil sometime between this weekend and Wednesday next week depending on personal life.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Isn't it this early for soil down? 3 weeks prior to seeding. I assume you want a full kill, at least for the Poa T. Are planning to dig it out or you will let it be.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Isn't it this early for soil down? 3 weeks prior to seeding. I assume you want a full kill, at least for the Poa T. Are planning to dig it out or you will let it be.


According to @g-man 's guide



> T minus 4 weeks - The ground should be fairly clear and you can start to get it smooth. Address any dips/hills. Keep watering and check your irrigation coverage. The dry/wet soil makes it easy to spot issues now. *If you need to get top soil, now is the time, so you can fallow it too.* Use a hose/timer to complement your irrigation if needed. Continue the watering to grow weeds.


I'm actually a bit late based on this.


----------



## Babameca

I see.


----------



## RCUK

Good luck @davegravy I'm planning seed down August 15th also


----------



## davegravy

So I have my irrigation tuned for even coverage pretty well using tuna cans. What I'm not entirely sure about though is how long to run each zone to keep the surface moist.

I'm starting at 10 minutes per zone per run, at 8am, 11am, 2pm, 5pm, and 9pm. To get an idea where I sit with that, I took my tuna cans and filled them with soil. I'm going to be checking them periodically for dryness, especially right before sceduled runs on hot sunny days.

I decided "why not" and mixed in some grass seed too with the soil - long shot but if I can get it to germinate and survive through the height of summer I should have no problem in late August.

Thanks @RCUK


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Keep the tuna can results for later...when you have grass. For new seeding, you will have to be very experimental. Just before every cycle examine the soil on every zone. Right after watering do the same. No puddles after watering and no bone dry soil at top layer just before cycle. I would skip 1 cycle, start earlier (6 am) and finish earlier.
Overcast days you may have to tune down. Very hot full sun days you may have to water more. I was constantly changing this for the first 2 weeks. Then it becomes less demanding. Don't overthinking it right now. You need the soil down and then you can start experimenting.
You got this!


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Keep the tuna can results for later...when you have grass. For new seeding, you will have to be very experimental. Just before every cycle examine the soil on every zone. Right after watering do the same. No puddles after watering and no bone dry soil at top layer just before cycle. I would skip 1 cycle, start earlier (6 am) and finish earlier.
> Overcast days you may have to tune down. Very hot full sun days you may have to water more. I was constantly changing this for the first 2 weeks. Then it becomes less demanding. Don't overthinking it right now. You need the soil down and then you can start experimenting.
> You got this!


There's a decent chance I might have to be away for a few days after seed down, so I want to make sure I understand my irrigation today as best as possible so I can remotely manage it if I need to, while watching the weather of course. I have remote control with my smartphone so I can tweak things remotely.

One nice thing about my sandy soil is my drainage is excellent and I've never seen pooling. The hunter MP rotators are gentle low output, so I feel like there's minimal risk of causing washout. If in doubt I feel I should lean towards applying too much water rather than too little.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy You are somehow right, more is better than not enough. But not for long. I've seen few times last year in this forum, people driving this to seed rot. I was away 5 days right after seed down (with the whole family). No remote control. A neighbour was passing by to check on it. Many things with my reno were a pure luck...in my favour.
Most of us tend to overdo when stakes are high. I had perfect KBG germination in the asphalt cracks next to my lot... :lol: 
Still cleaning the mess. Those seeds were completely left to the elements.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy You are somehow right, more is better than not enough. But not for long. I've seen few times last year in this forum, people driving this to seed rot. I was away 5 days right after seed down (with the whole family). No remote control. A neighbour was passing by to check on it. Many things with my reno were a pure luck...in my favour.


Definitely agree that good balance is best.

That said, in my paper towel test, the seed was constantly soaked for ~15 days and germinated very happily without rot. I shouldn't be gone that long (I hope!)


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy I was to return the popcorn machine back. @jrubb42 called off and @Stuofsci02 is still hovering around like Prince Hamlet, but now I have a good reason to keep it. It will be exciting to follow your project (and see you panicking quite often...)


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy I was to return the popcorn machine back. @jrubb42 called off and @Stuofsci02 is still hovering around like Prince Hamlet, but now I have a good reason to keep it. It will be exciting to follow your project (and see you panicking quite often...)


Thanks (I think?  ). Oh yeah, I haven't updated my anxiety level in a while.

*Anxiety level: 4/10*

Topsoil was just delivered. This weekend (and probably into next week) is leveling time. Picking up the costco sized ibuprofen at some point.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy :lol: . Tylenol (the red bottle from Costco, slow release 700mg) works miracles. Take 2, before you start! Trust the old fart  I play tennis and table tennis and sometimes it is the only way to get thru my week.


----------



## jrubb42

@davegravy how'd the wife take the soil showing up? Haha. And @Babameca I got my little test plot with Everest in it for you still! You can get a small bowl of popcorn for my project :lol:


----------



## davegravy

jrubb42 said:


> @davegravy how'd the wife take the soil showing up? Haha. And @Babameca I got my little test plot with Everest in it for you still! You can get a small bowl of popcorn for my project :lol:


Better than she took the whole lawn dying very quickly. Apparently I didn't effectively communicate that part and so a kids playdate she arranged in the backyard with the sprinkler had to be modified slightly. Ooops.

My advice: show your wife a picture of what your lawn will look like after roundup.


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 You simply made a very smart and educated choice with Everest :lol:. I am teasing y'all...


----------



## davegravy

Scarified one direction and cleaned up.



Tomorrow the other direction (90 degrees) and then the levelling starts.

You can tell how beat I am from how lopsided the photo is.


----------



## jrubb42

She's crispy!! Are you going to dethatch before leveling? Just what you want....more work! Haha. Just curious for your reasoning, if you're not going to.


----------



## davegravy

jrubb42 said:


> She's crispy!! Are you going to dethatch before leveling? Just what you want....more work! Haha. Just curious for your reasoning, if you're not going to.


Not entirely sure what the difference is between scarifying and dethatching. My understanding is the sun joe I'm using gets thatch up pretty effectively. I don't have much of it to begin with.


----------



## jrubb42

davegravy said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's crispy!! Are you going to dethatch before leveling? Just what you want....more work! Haha. Just curious for your reasoning, if you're not going to.
> 
> 
> 
> Not entirely sure what the difference is between scarifying and dethatching. My understanding is the sun joe I'm using gets thatch up pretty effectively. I don't have much of it to begin with.
Click to expand...

Dethatching rips out all of the thatch and dead grass (the stuff you just killed). And I've used the Sun Joe before. It's ridiculously good at it. I've never used the scarifier attachment, but what I've seen is that the scarifier cuts into the ground and doesn't get up as much debris...I could be wrong about that though? This is just what I assume...


----------



## FuzzeWuzze

Even though they say not too, i recommend pulling the Sun Joe backwards when you think you've finished. You'll pull out way more stuff. Ive done it for all my renos with no issues.

I assume they say not too because it rips the shit out of everything, which isnt really the point of a dethatcher, but its what you want in this case.

Also lower that bad boy to the ground and run over your yard before you seed, it creates great trenches for seed. No need for a slit seeder.


----------



## davegravy

jrubb42 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's crispy!! Are you going to dethatch before leveling? Just what you want....more work! Haha. Just curious for your reasoning, if you're not going to.
> 
> 
> 
> Not entirely sure what the difference is between scarifying and dethatching. My understanding is the sun joe I'm using gets thatch up pretty effectively. I don't have much of it to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dethatching rips out all of the thatch and dead grass (the stuff you just killed). And I've used the Sun Joe before. It's ridiculously good at it. I've never used the scarifier attachment, but what I've seen is that the scarifier cuts into the ground and doesn't get up as much debris...I could be wrong about that though? This is just what I assume...
Click to expand...

I've now used both attachments... My estimation is the scarifier gets out as much material, if not more than the other attachment, plus it cuts nice slits in your soil (useful if you might have a prodiamine layer to breach, or you want to drop seeds in them)


----------



## davegravy

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Even though they say not too, i recommend pulling the Sun Joe backwards when you think you've finished. You'll pull out way more stuff. Ive done it for all my renos with no issues.
> 
> I assume they say not too because it rips the s--- out of everything, which isnt really the point of a dethatcher, but its what you want in this case.
> 
> Also lower that bad boy to the ground and run over your yard before you seed, it creates great trenches for seed. No need for a slit seeder.


Thanks for the suggestion! I'm torn because I've read a bunch of cases of people stripping the drive gear on their sun joe. i'm a little cautious about abusing it, it's seemingly not the most ruggedly built tool. On the other hand it's not expensive to replace.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy I will chime in too (I know you have enough 'angels' watching over you). You can scalp your grass now. It will make your 2nd pass way easier. Bag it. Your blade may be caput after that, but... I mean will need to be sharpened. It looks very crispy.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy I will chime in too (I know you have enough 'angels' watching over you). You can scalp your grass now. It will make your 2nd pass way easier. Bag it. Your blade may be caput after that, but... I mean will need to be sharpened. It looks very crispy.


Interesting you say that, I dropped the mower down and did a couple strips late yesterday as a test. It was slow going - the bag wasn't filling as the bagging chute constantly kept clogging which I had to keep unclogging. The mower didn't seem to be cutting so much as ripping dead grass out - the same function as the sun joe.

I was wondering if it would be faster to do the 2nd scarifier pass first and then scalp.

In any case it's thinned out nicely and there's a good bit of exposed soil beginning to show.

Neighbour asked if we were putting in a pool or something lol.


----------



## jrubb42

davegravy said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not entirely sure what the difference is between scarifying and dethatching. My understanding is the sun joe I'm using gets thatch up pretty effectively. I don't have much of it to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> Dethatching rips out all of the thatch and dead grass (the stuff you just killed). And I've used the Sun Joe before. It's ridiculously good at it. I've never used the scarifier attachment, but what I've seen is that the scarifier cuts into the ground and doesn't get up as much debris...I could be wrong about that though? This is just what I assume...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've now used both attachments... My estimation is the scarifier gets out as much material, if not more than the other attachment, plus it cuts nice slits in your soil (useful if you might have a prodiamine layer to breach, or you want to drop seeds in them)
Click to expand...

I stand corrected then. I just bought one a couple months ago. Good to know!


----------



## Stuofsci02

Babameca said:


> @davegravy I was to return the popcorn machine back. @jrubb42 called off and @Stuofsci02 is still hovering around like Prince Hamlet, but now I have a good reason to keep it. It will be exciting to follow your project (and see you panicking quite often...)


Hey.. What did I do? I never said I was doing a reno :?


----------



## Babameca

@Stuofsci02 :lol: Teasing you man!


----------



## davegravy

Inside feeling some mild heat stroke... It's a hot one today! All the dethatching and scalping done. Next up, soil leveling.



While I'm thinking of it, when you're scalping, don't just dump the mower bag straight into a yard waste bag. I was doing this and there was as much dirt as clippings, so my yard waste bag was half full but heavy as F.

Dump the bag out in a pile on your lawn and at the end toss the pile around with your rake like a salad. All the dirt will settle back into the lawn and then you can bag just the clippings.


----------



## BBLOCK

too much Canadian love in here...


----------



## davegravy

No leveling today but with the big storm inbound I realized our garage downspout points right at the pile of topsoil on my driveway. Either I needed to duct the downspout around the pile, move the pile to the backyard, or live with a soaking wet pile of soil and a bunch of runoff. I moved the pile, finished and tarped it just as the downpour started. A bunch of extra work I could have avoided but at least the pile is a lot closer to its final destination now.



... and the grass under it will be good and dead

0.4" inches rain in about 20 minutes.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Looks great. We got around 1/4" at 2 pm. I assume your pile was moved by 1...


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> Looks great. We got around 1/4" at 2 pm. I assume your pile was moved by 1...


We were shovelling like no tomorrow as the clouds rolled in but yes 

Got a bit more leveling done after it dried off.

My property slopes in one direction and the water flowing downhill cuts out trenches at least one of which is pretty wide. The leveling rake is a bit narrow but the 8' long 2x4 works great for this macro levelling which i'm targeting first. I'll use the leveling rake for when I get to micro leveling
.


----------



## Stuofsci02

I am excited to watch the progress. Are you going to manually reel the new sprouts?


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy I am glad you ended up with top soil. You are regrading. Sand/peat would have been a pretty bad choice.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy I am glad you ended up with top soil. You are regrading. Sand/peat would have been a pretty bad choice.


For some reason I considered regrading to involve surveying and using a bobcat. I suppose I am regrading to some degree.


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> I am excited to watch the progress. Are you going to manually reel the new sprouts?


Hadn't thought about that. The idea is it's lightweight and so easier on the seedlings?


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am excited to watch the progress. Are you going to manually reel the new sprouts?
> 
> 
> 
> Hadn't thought about that. The idea is it's lightweight and so easier on the seedlings?
Click to expand...

Yes... and a cleaner cut so it is not pulling them out of the ground..


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am excited to watch the progress. Are you going to manually reel the new sprouts?
> 
> 
> 
> Hadn't thought about that. The idea is it's lightweight and so easier on the seedlings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes... and a cleaner cut so it is not pulling them out of the ground..
Click to expand...

Hmm, or should I just put that money towards a powered reel?


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy There is rough grading and fine. Levelling with sand is 1/2'' max IMO and in very limited cases (surface wise) up to 2''.
As per @Stuofsci02 absolutely go and get a push reel mower. Scott's from home depot, use it for the project and then return it. No cost involved. Sorry, that's the Eastern talking in me... :lol: , but I did exactly that with my Jackobsen to be delivered later. If I had no $$$, I would have jumped to a wider manual reel instead, like a good Fiskars. It is addictive...


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hadn't thought about that. The idea is it's lightweight and so easier on the seedlings?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes... and a cleaner cut so it is not pulling them out of the ground..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hmm, or should I just put that money towards a powered reel?
Click to expand...

IMO having a manual push reel is a must. Some will disagree for sure, but I use mine all the time. It goes where my Toro can't, to get small tight areas. It's light weight on new seedlings.

Have a look on Kijiji. You can get them for $50-$100 for a good one.


----------



## DAM Lawn

It's coming along. Great work so far! My back aches just looking at this.


----------



## davegravy

Me right now


----------



## Zcape35

Looks like it's coming along nicely, you are ahead of me by about a week. Looking forward to following the progress! :thumbup:


----------



## davegravy

So a lot of what I'm filling in with topsoil is valleys dug out by rain that's exited the two downspouts at either side of the rear of my house, and flowed downhill.

With the big rain we just had today, I can see my efforts already being undone, even though I directed my downspout away from where it's historically flowed.



What's the best way to handle this? I'm going to have my seed washed out in these areas and have big deep valleys again in no time.

Is there a way to "diffuse" the rain from my downspouts so that it flows downhill in a more spread out manner?


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy When I bought my house I had serious water puddling issues. One of my basement windows filled in as aquarium, half way with water after a heavy rain. I have a lot of experience with this from my previous/first house ever, where all back was levelled against the house. Long story short, I made someone dig a 'channel' 6'' deep and extended those downspouts away. He used some textile to cover the 'pipes' and they end away from my grass (in garden beds or trees). I can show you pics tomorrow, if interested. That's extra work... but you will never have that problem anymore. Of what I can see, you can go side ways, which is much less digging... :?


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy When I bought my house I had serious water puddling issues. One of my basement windows filled in as aquarium, half way with water after a heavy rain. I have a lot of experience with this from my previous/first house ever, where all back was levelled against the house. Long story short, I made someone dig a 'channel' 6'' deep and extended those downspouts away. He used some textile to cover the 'pipes' and they end away from my grass (in garden beds or trees). I can show you pics tomorrow, if interested. That's extra work... but you will never have that problem anymore. Of what I can see, you can go side ways, which is much less digging... :?


Would love to see the pics to get a better idea of what you mean. Also can you clarify what you mean for me going sideways?


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy It's freaking dark outside, flashlight? Or you can sleep tonight? :lol: Dammm...I am going out


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy It's freaking dark outside, flashlight? Or you can sleep tonight? :lol: Dammm...I am going out


Oh I meant tomorrow! No rush :lol:


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy 
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hS83XZcPTW8tvME66

Does this help? It runs a perforated pipe with textile. You can run it at any direction as long as you have decent slope. The big basement window you see, was filled half way under heavy rain. I run same setup at all my downspouts, even have some 'dead end' pipes in low spots to divert water, simply because the only possible regrading would have brought the water back to the foundation of the house.


----------



## jrubb42

@Babameca you're dedicated! :lol:


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 wait for my work to come back. Will be gone in a dime... And yes! If I made mistakes I would do whatever it takes to help others avoid them. Collective learning.


----------



## jrubb42

@Babameca I feel you 100% with the work. I'm usually traveling a lot or stuck in the office. Once home I'm playing with the kids. So having this opportunity to take care of the yard this summer has been awesome. We all appreciate how much you try to help us all out!


----------



## Babameca

jrubb42 said:


> @Babameca I feel you 100% with the work. I'm usually traveling a lot or stuck in the office. Once home I'm playing with the kids. So having this opportunity to take care of the yard this summer has been awesome. We all appreciate how much you try to help us all out!


Team Canada/MN forever! :bandit: :nod: :thumbup: . After 50 000 miles a year and/or 150 flights and 14-16 hours work days (when travel in or out same day) to get off the cage, lawn is the perfect oasis... I really wished to have more patience for my 4 years old...the old fart with me smells retirement :bd: Let's say I am not used to be home, and home doing nothing. OCD? Maybe.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/hS83XZcPTW8tvME66
> 
> Does this help? It runs a perforated pipe with textile. You can run it at any direction as long as you have decent slope. The big basement window you see, was filled half way under heavy rain. I run same setup at all my downspouts, even have some 'dead end' pipes in low spots to divert water, simply because the only possible regrading would have brought the water back to the foundation of the house.


This is great, I think I understand the concept. The hole at the end of the video - any water that isn't absorbed into soil through the perforations comes out here?

I suppose I could run these pipes the whole length of my yard into the park behind me. There's a public storm drain just past my property line.

Not sure what the rules are on that.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Yes any excess water runs out. Sometimes it washes my wood chips lol. What I was thinking and trying to save you work, is that you can run at 45 degrees towards your fence (left and right). That may create 'low' spots over time along the fence, but it will be 1000 times better than now. Way less digging. Being at full reno and having top soil, I think, now is the time to solve that issue. Any further info you may need, let me know.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Yes any excess water runs out. Sometimes it washes my wood chips lol. What I was thinking and trying to save you work, is that you can run at 45 degrees towards your fence (left and right). That may create 'low' spots over time along the fence, but it will be 1000 times better than now. Way less digging. Being at full reno and having top soil, I think, now is the time to solve that issue. Any further info you may need, let me know.


I'm just not sure about having a random pipe discharge in the middle of the yard (well, at the perimeter, but still). If I had a flower bed or something to hide it in like you that would be nicer. I feel like the right solution is to take it underground all the way to the end of the property where the hedge is, but that's a big job I'm not sure I'm going to get to this year.

As a short term solution I'm thinking of: connecting the two downspouts together with perf pipe but above ground (along the back walkway of the house), so that the origin of rainwater will be more widely distributed. As long as there's enough perforation area it should not limit the flow.

There might be a few washout areas I'll need to use the pro plugger on but I figure it should be better than what I have now?


----------



## davegravy

So according to the reno guide I'm supposed to do another roundup application this weekend but I really don't see anything green anywhere. I'm going let it lie and fallow the new topsoil next week while I'm away (cottage week) and reassess Aug 1st.


----------



## Kaba

Lookin' good out there, good luck its going to be a roller-coaster next 3 months for you, but you will get through it successfully!


----------



## Matthew_73

jrubb42 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's crispy!! Are you going to dethatch before leveling? Just what you want....more work! Haha. Just curious for your reasoning, if you're not going to.
> 
> 
> 
> Not entirely sure what the difference is between scarifying and dethatching. My understanding is the sun joe I'm using gets thatch up pretty effectively. I don't have much of it to begin with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dethatching rips out all of the thatch and dead grass (the stuff you just killed). And I've used the Sun Joe before. It's ridiculously good at it. I've never used the scarifier attachment, but what I've seen is that the scarifier cuts into the ground and doesn't get up as much debris...I could be wrong about that though? This is just what I assume...
Click to expand...

I've heard the scarifier is like slit seeing without the seed.


----------



## Kaba

Is it too late to save your fine fescue??

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3240


----------



## davegravy

Kaba said:


> Is it too late to save your fine fescue??
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3240


Haha yeah I've seen that lawn before, pretty killer. Also my neighbour has a FF lawn (not as nice as that one) but somehow manages to keep it looking far better than I have. It's still a nomix but looks to have much more FF % than even mine does. I'll try to grab a photo when I get a chance.

I will say my front yard this summer (and my back until I killed it) is doing way better after the pampering it got last fall and this spring. Not sure if it was the K correction, or PGR and pushing root growth, tweaking I did to watering, or something else I changed. But I've got hands down the best lawn on the street for the first time ever... the only one devoid of dormant spots and none of that brown haze. Feels good.


----------



## davegravy

Matthew_73 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not entirely sure what the difference is between scarifying and dethatching. My understanding is the sun joe I'm using gets thatch up pretty effectively. I don't have much of it to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> Dethatching rips out all of the thatch and dead grass (the stuff you just killed). And I've used the Sun Joe before. It's ridiculously good at it. I've never used the scarifier attachment, but what I've seen is that the scarifier cuts into the ground and doesn't get up as much debris...I could be wrong about that though? This is just what I assume...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've heard the scarifier is like slit seeing without the seed.
Click to expand...

It leaves definite grooves in the soil. Looked pretty cool after I did 2 passes at 90deg. I haven't run a proper slit seeder, I suspect they may cut a bit deeper.

Definitely will be running the the sun joe scarifier again right before seed down. Now that I have my yard level I should get consistent grooves over it all.

Two passes, seed down, roll, peat covering.


----------



## DAM Lawn

I've got the sunjoe too, haven't used it yet but was planning too before overseeding this year. I'm not doing a full reno like you, just an overseed and was wondering if the scarifier would be too aggressive. Did you use it on the lowest setting?


----------



## davegravy

DAM Lawn said:


> I've got the sunjoe too, haven't used it yet but was planning too before overseeding this year. I'm not doing a full reno like you, just an overseed and was wondering if the scarifier would be too aggressive. Did you use it on the lowest setting?


I did use the lowest. I think it's too aggressive for an overseed (unless you want an aggressive overseed)


----------



## Kaba

I used the lowest setting last year when I did my overseed and I was super happy with it, like I was like omg this is amazing... Until I blew the motor on the sunjoe because I hit the iron main water valve in my lawn with the scarfier attachment.

Use flags if you are using the sunjoe near or below the soil surface lol.


----------



## davegravy

Kaba said:


> I used the lowest setting last year when I did my overseed and I was super happy with it, like I was like omg this is amazing... Until I blew the motor on the sunjoe because I hit the iron main water valve in my lawn with the scarfier attachment.
> 
> Use flags if you are using the sunjoe near or below the soil surface lol.


In the Amazon reviews I read there are tons of people who have blown their joe, often times just in soil that's heavily compacted when used on the lowest setting. These things are not commercial build quality. Then again they're so cheap if your have to replace them a time or two it's not the end of the world.


----------



## davegravy

At long last, all the topsoil is down. Let the fallowing begin.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy It is satisfying! I know...I did this and seeding same day on 6000sqf and hurted for a long time after... Now it is a wait and glypho? Miso worked great for me skipping that step.


----------



## BBLOCK

davegravy said:


> At long last, all the topsoil is down. Let the fallowing begin.


is that a swale that runs through your yard and the neighbours?


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy It is satisfying! I know...I did this and seeding same day on 6000sqf and hurted for a long time after... Now it is a wait and glypho? Miso worked great for me skipping that step.


Yup, wait and glypho. Could do miso but I'm kind of curious how much weed seed is in this soil. I'm hoping not much and I can get away with spot spraying glypho instead of blanket. We shall see.

Will likely do miso as well just before seed down to be extra careful.


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> At long last, all the topsoil is down. Let the fallowing begin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is that a swale that runs through your yard and the neighbours?
Click to expand...

Don't think so. Over the years water running downhill has eroded "fingers" into the soil, doesn't look like any of these were intentional drainage features put in by the builder.


----------



## BBLOCK

davegravy said:


> BBLOCK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> At long last, all the topsoil is down. Let the fallowing begin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is that a swale that runs through your yard and the neighbours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't think so. Over the years water running downhill has eroded "fingers" into the soil, doesn't look like any of these were intentional drainage features put in by the builder.
Click to expand...

okay gotchya, but where the house sits is higher, and the shed ground on that side of the yard looks higher and then in the middle it looks lower than both sides. hard to tell from pics for slope, but are you worried about wash outs on that slope at all, are you using blankets at all? i'm just curious

usually they try and slope the water towards the back of the property but it looks like from the pics the water would get trapped in the middle like a valley and possibly pool there? i'm just wondering what the plan is if you get a big hard rain. and is that spot traditionally very wet after rains? didn't want to regrade the yard while you're at it and slope it so the water runs to the back of the yard and not the middle?


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBLOCK said:
> 
> 
> 
> is that a swale that runs through your yard and the neighbours?
> 
> 
> 
> Don't think so. Over the years water running downhill has eroded "fingers" into the soil, doesn't look like any of these were intentional drainage features put in by the builder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> okay gotchya, but where the house sits is higher, and the shed ground on that side of the yard looks higher and then in the middle it looks lower than both sides. hard to tell from pics for slope, but are you worried about wash outs on that slope at all, are you using blankets at all? i'm just curious
> 
> usually they try and slope the water towards the back of the property but it looks like from the pics the water would get trapped in the middle like a valley and possibly pool there? i'm just wondering what the plan is if you get a big hard rain. and is that spot traditionally very wet after rains? didn't want to regrade the yard while you're at it and slope it so the water runs to the back of the yard and not the middle?
Click to expand...

Ahh I see what you're saying. Bit of an optical illusion, shed is actually a low point or close to it. The house sits up quite a bit but after about 30percent of the way into the yard the slope is mostly done and it's pretty flat to the end of the yard.

The slopes are gradual enough not to be too concerned with washout. I measured them at once point and posted in the reno thread, was advised not to bother with germination blankets.

For washout the biggest risk is my downspouts which seem to cause a lot of localized erosion, but it's not so much due to slope.


----------



## BBLOCK

davegravy said:


> BBLOCK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't think so. Over the years water running downhill has eroded "fingers" into the soil, doesn't look like any of these were intentional drainage features put in by the builder.
> 
> 
> 
> okay gotchya, but where the house sits is higher, and the shed ground on that side of the yard looks higher and then in the middle it looks lower than both sides. hard to tell from pics for slope, but are you worried about wash outs on that slope at all, are you using blankets at all? i'm just curious
> 
> usually they try and slope the water towards the back of the property but it looks like from the pics the water would get trapped in the middle like a valley and possibly pool there? i'm just wondering what the plan is if you get a big hard rain. and is that spot traditionally very wet after rains? didn't want to regrade the yard while you're at it and slope it so the water runs to the back of the yard and not the middle?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahh I see what you're saying. Bit of an optical illusion, shed is actually a low point or close to it. The house sits up quite a bit but after about 30percent of the way into the yard the slope is mostly done and it's pretty flat to the end of the yard.
> 
> The slopes are gradual enough not to be too concerned with washout. I measured them at once point and posted in the reno thread, was advised not to bother with germination blankets.
Click to expand...

ok, right on, that's what i was curious about, it looks a lot diff with no grass lol

im pretty excited to see what this thing looks like come october!!!

how are the nerves now? now that you're well on your way! probably feels good.

neighbors still think you're putting in a pool? lol


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBLOCK said:
> 
> 
> 
> okay gotchya, but where the house sits is higher, and the shed ground on that side of the yard looks higher and then in the middle it looks lower than both sides. hard to tell from pics for slope, but are you worried about wash outs on that slope at all, are you using blankets at all? i'm just curious
> 
> usually they try and slope the water towards the back of the property but it looks like from the pics the water would get trapped in the middle like a valley and possibly pool there? i'm just wondering what the plan is if you get a big hard rain. and is that spot traditionally very wet after rains? didn't want to regrade the yard while you're at it and slope it so the water runs to the back of the yard and not the middle?
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh I see what you're saying. Bit of an optical illusion, shed is actually a low point or close to it. The house sits up quite a bit but after about 30percent of the way into the yard the slope is mostly done and it's pretty flat to the end of the yard.
> 
> The slopes are gradual enough not to be too concerned with washout. I measured them at once point and posted in the reno thread, was advised not to bother with germination blankets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok, right on, that's what i was curious about, it looks a lot diff with no grass lol
> 
> im pretty excited to see what this thing looks like come october!!!
> 
> how are the nerves now? now that you're well on your way! probably feels good.
> 
> neighbors still think you're putting in a pool? lol
Click to expand...

I'm really excited too. I've been really selling it to friends and family who ask, justifying all the effort by the fact it's gonna be a big difference, so I'm a bit anxious about it only being a marginal improvement or none at all and looking like a schmuck lol.

But in general, feeling a lot better about it. I have all I need to finish the job so no more sourcing stuff and worrying about shipping delays etc.

One neighbour came over and gave me her deepest sympathies on the lawn. I tried to explain I killed it on purpose to put in a golf-course grade lawn but she thought I was joking. She said "I guess you've learned not to cut it so short when it's so hot out".

:dunno: I just let it go... Imagine though if you could get such a thorough kill just from scalping it!


----------



## BBLOCK

well thats good because this was a great summer to "naturally" kill your lawn lmao
no complaints from her then...


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy 100% apply miso at seed down, but go low at 4oz/acre or 3ml/M. I had zero whitening on germination.


----------



## davegravy

Now I have the topsoil down it's easy to see watering issues. Soil is drying out between waterings.

Started a thread here about it:

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21151


----------



## davegravy

Having a hard time finding the Scotts 20" reel mower which seems to get good reviews. Amazon has it but I'd rather use a brick and mortar store.

Found this which seems to be the same thing just rebranded:

https://www.homehardware.ca/en/20-reel-mower-with-grass-catcher/p/5122402?page=search-results%20page


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Having a hard time finding the Scotts 20" reel mower which seems to get good reviews. Amazon has it but I'd rather use a brick and mortar store.
> 
> Found this which seems to be the same thing just rebranded:
> 
> https://www.homehardware.ca/en/20-reel-mower-with-grass-catcher/p/5122402?page=search-results%20page


The Fiskar 17" Stay Sharp is a very good manual reel. I use mine often...


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having a hard time finding the Scotts 20" reel mower which seems to get good reviews. Amazon has it but I'd rather use a brick and mortar store.
> 
> Found this which seems to be the same thing just rebranded:
> 
> https://www.homehardware.ca/en/20-reel-mower-with-grass-catcher/p/5122402?page=search-results%20page
> 
> 
> 
> The Fiskar 17" Stay Sharp is a very good manual reel. I use mine often...
Click to expand...

Where'd you get yours? Having trouble finding it in Canada also. Seems to be not alot of selection here other than the sun joe model


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Yo...when is seed down?
Buy any reel mower now, It will do the job. Then you can buy something to keep. Now, it is not the time to buy and keep. Prices and availability...
Fiskars is next day delivery:
https://www.amazon.ca/Fiskars-Inch-Staysharp-Push-Mower/dp/B006FALDOG/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=reel+mower&qid=1596306476&s=lawn-garden&sr=1-8


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Yo...when is seed down?
> Buy any reel mower now, It will do the job. Then you can buy something to keep. Now, it is not the time to buy and keep. Prices and availability...
> Fiskars is next day delivery:
> https://www.amazon.ca/Fiskars-Inch-Staysharp-Push-Mower/dp/B006FALDOG/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=reel+mower&qid=1596306476&s=lawn-garden&sr=1-8


Home Depot has 90 day returns right now, I think Amazon is still just 30 day... Not sure how long I'll need it. I might just get the sun joe from HD even though it has bad reviews. I suspect a lot of those reviews are people mowing overgrown grass or something.

Seed down I was planning for Aug 15 but with the cool temperatures I might do it sooner. We have a few straight days of rain in the forecast and once that's finished and I'm back at home I'll try to make a decision.


----------



## Kaba

I got my scotts on kijiji for $40. There were tons last year, have you tried looking for a used one?


----------



## davegravy

Kaba said:


> I got my scotts on kijiji for $40. There were tons last year, have you tried looking for a used one?


There's some beat up looking units around that price. How hard is it to sharpen the blades if they're in rough shape?


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having a hard time finding the Scotts 20" reel mower which seems to get good reviews. Amazon has it but I'd rather use a brick and mortar store.
> 
> Found this which seems to be the same thing just rebranded:
> 
> https://www.homehardware.ca/en/20-reel-mower-with-grass-catcher/p/5122402?page=search-results%20page
> 
> 
> 
> The Fiskar 17" Stay Sharp is a very good manual reel. I use mine often...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where'd you get yours? Having trouble finding it in Canada also. Seems to be not alot of selection here other than the sun joe model
Click to expand...

I got mine at CT... last September.


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Kaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got my scotts on kijiji for $40. There were tons last year, have you tried looking for a used one?
> 
> 
> 
> There's some beat up looking units around that price. How hard is it to sharpen the blades if they're in rough shape?
Click to expand...

Very hard.. pass on any beat up ones.


----------



## BBLOCK

anyone tried the Lee valley one? there's a couple in my area for sale decent prices


----------



## Kaba

The only issue with mine was the foam handle had a tear in it, blades were in good shape, needed a light oil and it could cut paper no problem.

You can buy lapping compound sharpening kits which is quite simple for a minor sharpening.

Mine was listed for like $90 and I just told the guy I know this is low, let me know if it doesn't sell but all I can offer is $40. And he took it.


----------



## Kaba

I should mention I have the 18" and not the 20"


----------



## davegravy

I'm going to visit a $45 option on Tuesday for the 20" classic. We'll see.

@Babameca here's what I cooked up for the my downspout diffuser. It's perforated flex piping. The perforations are pretty small and infrequent, so I'm half expecting it to back up in heavy rain. If it does I will enlarge the holes with something sharp. I can bury this stuff too later when I have more time.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy This is great, but dead ended, will explode in 5 min under heavy rain. I would cut, not holes, but long slices horizontally, all along towards the yard. Yes, it will leak, but will distribute the flow. Get ready for some wash outs, but it will fill in with the time.
Also, even if it looks tidy, you'd maybe better to split the irrigation hoses apart. This way you will have 2 smaller lines not growing, but they will fill much faster than one 3 inches stripe...


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy This is great, but dead ended, will explode in 5 min under heavy rain. I would cut, not holes, but long slices horizontally, all along towards the yard. Yes, it will leak, but will distribute the flow. Get ready for some wash outs, but it will fill in with the time.
> Also, even if it looks tidy, you'd maybe better to split the irrigation hoses apart. This way you will have 2 smaller lines not growing, but they will fill much faster than one 3 inches stripe...


I'm not a mechanical engineer but my thinking was it should not explode as long as the total opening area from all the perforations summed together is greater than or equal to the crossectional area of the downspouts.

You may be right that I need more openings, and I like your idea of horizontal slits. I'll be playing with it, and watching it closely with my rain coat /umbrella.

Hoping for another deluge before seed down so I can test this and get it tuned. I have to re-level some areas again after the washout from today's rain.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy It seems like forever since I last used the Reynolds number...anyhow, yes experimenting maybe a good option.


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got my scotts on kijiji for $40. There were tons last year, have you tried looking for a used one?
> 
> 
> 
> There's some beat up looking units around that price. How hard is it to sharpen the blades if they're in rough shape?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very hard.. pass on any beat up ones.
Click to expand...

This guy makes it look easy, lol. Randomly showed up in my YouTube feed


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's some beat up looking units around that price. How hard is it to sharpen the blades if they're in rough shape?
> 
> 
> 
> Very hard.. pass on any beat up ones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This guy makes it look easy, lol. Randomly showed up in my YouTube feed
Click to expand...

Yeah, just a simple afternoon project... that guy did an amazing job though...


----------



## davegravy

Hey all, some people have asked for more info on how I ran my irrigation as they plan their own setups. I was hoping to get it more finished before posting this but I've been tight on time lately, and on the road. Here's a quick tour video I threw together this morning.

A few notes:


yes, I know I need to support the manifold properly on the side of the house. It's on my list 
will need to blow out the poly in the winter, not sure yet the best way to do that. 
if there's any more detail anyone's looking for let me know what specifically and I'll do my best.
I bought almost everything from irrigationdirect.ca. I followed their tutorial for designing a system and adapted it slightly as shown in my video.


----------



## BBLOCK

nice setup!


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Holy s...t! David!
I feel like a miserable amateur watching this... I seriously feel like a new YT channel has been born!
This is not a Joke! The amount of planning and effort you have put into it, makes me believe, we may have another Canadian LOTM contender next year. Hat down bro.
B


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Holy s...t! David!
> I feel like a miserable amateur watching this... I seriously feel like a new YT channel has been born!
> This is not a Joke! The amount of planning and effort you have put into it, makes me believe, we may have another Canadian LOTM contender next year. Hat down bro.
> B


Thanks man! I've learned a lot and it's been fun (and back breaking). Hope I can pass some of it on to others!

Also I wouldn't agree that you're an amateur 😉


----------



## davegravy

Just got a major downpour.

The perf pipe didnt explode but also did nothing to help. I found water coming out of the first foot or so, then a bit at 3', nothing beyond that. The water all flowed back and reconnected with the main valley.

I tried repointing them to the outside edges of the yard... no difference.

Check out these lakes I have.





I have good drainage and these will be gone soon after the rain ends. I raised these areas with topsoil but clearly not enough. I think it's a major regrading job to fix.

Now that I've watched it in action I don't think anything quick/easy I can do with the flex piping is going to solve this. I think I'm just going to have to hope for no major storms until the seedlings are rooted. If unlucky I'll reseed areas where there's washout.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Just got that storm here. It was a doozy... 0.5" in 15 min. I had a river going out the swale between my house and my neighbors.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy It did work! The water from your downpours did not dig canyons in the back! When at bare soil (trust me I have lived that) the most gentle rain can push soil down. What you see is the effect of heavy rain over the yard. You have low spots...fine. But if you had those pipes leading straight on, you would be devastated now. ditches few inches deep all along... There is nothing to retain soil, not the same as when you had a thick carpet of roots underneath.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy It did work! The water from your downpours did not dig canyons in the back! When at bare soil (trust me I have lived that) the most gentle rain can push soil down. What you see is the effect of heavy rain over the yard. You have low spots...fine. But if you had those pipes leading straight on, you would be devastated now. ditches few inches deep all along... There is nothing to retain soil, not the same as when you had a thick carpet of roots underneath.


Pictures don't show it well but there's definite trenching. Not severe, and I can probably fill them with the bit of leftover topsoil I have.

I think i'll buy a bit of non-perf tubing to put before the perf section. There was a lot of water pooling against the side of the house because so much water came out the first set of perforations.

Glad I'm figuring this all out now before seed down


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Agree. Everyone has an unique slope/yard/soil. I learn along with you. Priceless place (forum) to be.


----------



## davegravy

I did prodiamine at the 4 month rate on April 19th. I just remembered this when I was thinking about dropping seed early (this week).

I should be ok right? I scarified in 2 directions, added a bunch of new topsoil (although very thin in the high areas), and I'll scarify 2 more times before seeding.

I'm just concerned because I haven't had much weed germination while I've been fallowing. Possibly this is just really good weed-free topsoil I brought in?


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> I did prodiamine at the 4 month rate on April 19th. I just remembered this when I was thinking about dropping seed early (this week).
> 
> I should be ok right? I scarified in 2 directions, added a bunch of new topsoil (although very thin in the high areas), and I'll scarify 2 more times before seeding.
> 
> I'm just concerned because I haven't had much weed germination while I've been fallowing. Possibly this is just really good weed-free topsoil I brought in?


I don't think the new topsoil would be affected by your pre-m barrier in the old turf. I think you'll be fine. 4 months is up in two weeks anyhow, and with the new soil and scarifying you should be good. KBG takes two weeks to germinate anyhow, so you should be well past your date if seed down is 1-2 weeks away..


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did prodiamine at the 4 month rate on April 19th. I just remembered this when I was thinking about dropping seed early (this week).
> 
> I should be ok right? I scarified in 2 directions, added a bunch of new topsoil (although very thin in the high areas), and I'll scarify 2 more times before seeding.
> 
> I'm just concerned because I haven't had much weed germination while I've been fallowing. Possibly this is just really good weed-free topsoil I brought in?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the new topsoil would be affected by your pre-m barrier in the old turf. I think you'll be fine. 4 months is up in two weeks anyhow, and with the new soil and scarifying you should be good. KBG takes two weeks to germinate anyhow, so you should be well past your date if seed down is 1-2 weeks away..
Click to expand...

Right. Also I assume it's not the case that it's 100% effective up until the 4 month date and then suddenly 0% effective, it's a gradual decline, so worst case I'd get slightly reduced germination.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Double checked the label. At 4 months rate, it says overseeding can be done in 4 months. The latest heavy rains may have helped as well.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Double checked the label. At 4 months rate, it says overseeding can be done in 4 months. The latest heavy rains may have helped as well.


4 months would mean I need to wait another couple weeks. The question is if I can seed a bit early given all the other prep I've been doing / will do which should help defeat the barrier.

Ideally I'd like to take advantage of the cool August weather we're having, and also pay down some WAF (wife acceptability factor) debt.


----------



## Kaba

In my fun experience, I was weed free (of any significance anyways) for like 5 weeks and then all of a sudden I had weeds like small trees (mostly spurg and Johnson Grass) explode everywhere.

For good measure I would round up one last time before seed down/as soon as you see some pop.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy IME ryegrass popped 5 days in. First KBG emerged 3-4 days later. Last cultivar took maybe 2 weeks. In theory you may alter final results and have lower density this fall. Not a huge issue, it will thicken up.
If I was you, I would wait. You have plenty of time. The worst will be for you to wait for germination and wondering if it will kick in. All said, if you applied Exactly the 4 months rate... In any case, I would go no less than 4lbs/M.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy IME ryegrass popped 5 days in. First KBG emerged 3-4 days later. Last cultivar took maybe 2 weeks. In theory you may alter final results and have lower density this fall. Not a huge issue, it will thicken up.
> If I was you, I would wait. You have plenty of time. The worst will be for you to wait for germination and wondering if it will kick in. All said, if you applied Exactly the 4 months rate... In any case, I would go no less than 4lbs/M.


4lbs/M seed rate you mean? I think the bag recommends 5lbs/M

The other factor which is probably the largest (now I think of it) is that I need to be travelling for the last week in August. This is a week which will be critical for monitoring watering /waiting for germination - if I stick with my original plan of Aug 15 seed that is.

Alternatively, if I seed this week I should already have germination by my departure date, so watering will need less babysitting.

Of all the seeding attempts I've made in my life, the biggest disasters have been from poor watering (too much/too little) leading up to germination. I'm thinking that being physically home to babysit watering is the best strategy.


----------



## davegravy

Kaba said:


> In my fun experience, I was weed free (of any significance anyways) for like 5 weeks and then all of a sudden I had weeds like small trees (mostly spurg and Johnson Grass) explode everywhere.
> 
> For good measure I would round up one last time before seed down/as soon as you see some pop.


I've seen this too, with my test KBG patch last fall. Definitely will do a roundup right before seed, and also use Tenacity.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy I left for 5 days with my family the day after seed down (in my journal). I had no remote control over to watering. I washed out some areas and moved seed around due to poor water stream. And again it turned fine. Downpours will be your worst enemy. I was hoping and got almost no rain weather. Having the watering part at your control makes a difference. BTW the babysitting is for the first 6 weeks. I did not back off on water for 4 weeks, which by some standards was way too long. All in all, you are the one making the calls. We...just eat popcorn...


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy I left for 5 days with my family the day after seed down (in my journal). I had no remote control over to watering. I washed out some areas and moved seed around due to poor water stream. And again it turned fine. Downpours will be your worst enemy. I was hoping and got almost no rain weather. Having the watering part at your control makes a difference. BTW the babysitting is for the first 6 weeks. I did not back off on water for 4 weeks, which by some standards was way too long. All in all, you are the one making the calls. We...just eat popcorn...


Ideally I'd be home for it all, but I figure the seedlings are less sensitive than ungerminated seed to a bit of drying out.

There are risks with every option: poor germination from prodiamine if I seed this week, bad watering if I seed Aug 15, early frost if I wait until I'm home on Sept 1. Just need to choose and make the best of it.


----------



## Stuofsci02

There will always be challenges. I had to leave several times for business during a seeding project. It will be fine, especially if you have someone at home that can check on it for you.


----------



## capples3

Just saw this whole journal, good luck with it, you have put a TON of work into it. Can't wait to follow along for seed down!


----------



## davegravy

capples3 said:


> Just saw this whole journal, good luck with it, you have put a TON of work into it. Can't wait to follow along for seed down!


Thanks! I think I'm gonna drop seed Friday or Saturday. Forecast looks really good temperature-wise. Some risk of thunderstorms a week out but that's typical.


----------



## davegravy

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I picked up this scotts 20" classic off Kijiji for $45 about 10 minutes from my house. Had some cosmetic wear but no dings or anything on the blades. Just some minor corrosion I expect will come off with a sharpening. I went over my front lawn with it and it seemed to work the way I imagined it should.

I noticed a few rogue tall plants that when I went over they didn't get cut. Had to go over them a few times before they finally cut so it might need some adjustment /sharpening.

The cut looks way nicer than the rotary... And i found myself wanting to keep dropping the HOC and doing another mow. The Rick Astley mow's days may be numbered.


Roundup going down on reno area weeds tonight.


----------



## Kaba

Congrats buddy! Kijiji all the way haha


----------



## Stuofsci02

@davegravy ... looks great and congrats on the new family member. For $45 you can't go wrong. It great to see you following the traditional path to Turf crazy.... have you been on Facebook market place yet checking for greens mowers?


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> @davegravy ... looks great and congrats on the new family member. For $45 you can't go wrong. It great to see you following the traditional path to Turf crazy.... have you been on Facebook market place yet checking for greens mowers?


How did you know? :lol: Been browsing a few places but not really sure what I should be looking for exactly. Is there a primer somewhere on how to shop for these things?


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy ... looks great and congrats on the new family member. For $45 you can't go wrong. It great to see you following the traditional path to Turf crazy.... have you been on Facebook market place yet checking for greens mowers?
> 
> 
> 
> How did you know? :lol: Been browsing a few places but not really sure what I should be looking for exactly. Is there a primer somewhere on how to shop for these things?
Click to expand...

Haha... we all end up there eventually.... I am not sure about a primer, but the three you want to look for are the Toro greensmasters, John Deere 220/260 and Jacobsen. Jacobsen seems to get less love than the other two, but @Babameca has one. There is a place in Newmarket that has some used stock. At least they did when I was looking.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Good working condition, great reel shape (7 blade!), able to cut 'high' (1'') and mostly (even at higher price) servicing close to you (as much as possible). @Stuofsci02 Jacobsen rocks!
Those, low reel count, high cut walk behind (normally used for alleys) are a dying animal. To reduce labour cost golf courses buy more ride-ons. Get one, when it is still the time.


----------



## DAM Lawn

davegravy said:


> Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I picked up this scotts 20" classic off Kijiji for $45 about 10 minutes from my house. Had some cosmetic wear but no dings or anything on the blades. Just some minor corrosion I expect will come off with a sharpening. I went over my front lawn with it and it seemed to work the way I imagined it should.
> 
> I noticed a few rogue tall plants that when I went over they didn't get cut. Had to go over them a few times before they finally cut so it might need some adjustment /sharpening.
> 
> The cut looks way nicer than the rotary... And i found myself wanting to keep dropping the HOC and doing another mow. The Rick Astley mow's days may be numbered.
> 
> 
> Roundup going down on reno area weeds tonight.


I must admit it is addictive. Same as you, picked up a manual reel off kijiji a few weeks ago. I keep dropping the hoc to get below the seed stalks with the intent to raise it back up a notch or two. Problem is everytime I drop it down, I like it too much and don't raise back up! Endless seed stalks!


----------



## davegravy

Seed is down and rolled. Still need to spray tenacity and cover in peat moss, but it's windy so I'm deciding just to start watering now and I'll do the remaining work tonight or tomorrow morning.


----------



## BBLOCK

Godspeed good sir


----------



## Babameca

Same here, but all done on my Project 1. No peat moss.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Start the clock for germination..


----------



## Kaba

Congrats man!!


----------



## jrubb42

Wishing you luck man. Grab a drink or two. You deserve it. The hard part is finally done! Other than the stress of the waiting game!


----------



## Chris LI

+1 on congrats on seed down.


----------



## davegravy

Tenacity down and 12 bags of peat moss down. I wasn't successful at getting it as thin as some people.

Now watering in the past moss. Interesting that I put quite a bit of water down and it turned really dark, but brushing a bit of peat moss off the top revealed bright (dry) peat moss beneath. I guess I gotta really hit it with a bunch of water to get it wet right through.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Looks good... Was the peat moss you put down dry or still moist from the bag. I find once peat moss drys out it is really hard to get to absorb water again....


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> Looks good... Was the peat moss you put down dry or still moist from the bag. I find once peat moss drys out it is really hard to get to absorb water again....


It was very dry. Even though it was a light breeze today, peat dust was blowing all around. Messy job, I'm still blowing it out my nose  Probably easier to spread than if it was moist.

Yeah it seems to be hydrophobic. I'll just keep at it with watering. Fortunately I watered in the soil pretty well before top dressing with peat moss, so hopefully it's still moist at seed level. I figure the peat is at least going to slow down evaporation, even if it's dry.

Danged birds don't seem to mind digging through peat moss to get at the seed. I was hoping it would help there.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Looks awesome! Peat moss is thick! I am still 'dreaming' of:
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2500
It will a life saver for topdressing.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Looks awesome! Peat moss is thick! I am still 'dreaming' of:
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2500
> It will a life saver for topdressing.


I'm going to need a bigger shed for all the lawn equipment I want to collect...


----------



## davegravy

The thunderstorm that was forecast for today fizzled out. Nice dry weather forecast for the next 10 days except for maybe a few mm rain on the weekend. So far I'm feeling good about my choice to pull the trigger early.

Anxiously checking for grass babies way too often.


----------



## davegravy

HAAAA-le-lu-jah
:yahoo:


----------



## rob13psu

Congrats on the grass babies!


----------



## Babameca

Hallelujah!!!! Few more days and KBG will pop.


----------



## Stuofsci02

That was fast... What was the seed blend?


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> That was fast... What was the seed blend?


http://oscturf.com/Seed_PremiumTee.htm

*Mixture #2*
25% Award Kentucky Bluegrass
25% Beyond Kentucky Bluegrass
25% NuGlade Kentucky Bluegrass
25% CSI Perennial Ryegrass


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was fast... What was the seed blend?
> 
> 
> 
> http://oscturf.com/Seed_PremiumTee.htm
> 
> *Mixture #2*
> 25% Award Kentucky Bluegrass
> 25% Beyond Kentucky Bluegrass
> 25% NuGlade Kentucky Bluegrass
> 25% CSI Perennial Ryegrass
Click to expand...

Oh yeah... That is the one I want to do next year...


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was fast... What was the seed blend?
> 
> 
> 
> http://oscturf.com/Seed_PremiumTee.htm
> 
> *Mixture #2*
> 25% Award Kentucky Bluegrass
> 25% Beyond Kentucky Bluegrass
> 25% NuGlade Kentucky Bluegrass
> 25% CSI Perennial Ryegrass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yeah... That is the one I want to do next year...
Click to expand...

Come check it out later this fall and see if it's for you :bandit:


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://oscturf.com/Seed_PremiumTee.htm
> 
> *Mixture #2*
> 25% Award Kentucky Bluegrass
> 25% Beyond Kentucky Bluegrass
> 25% NuGlade Kentucky Bluegrass
> 25% CSI Perennial Ryegrass
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah... That is the one I want to do next year...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come check it out later this fall and see if it's for you :bandit:
Click to expand...

I may just do that. Are you going to be keeping it low?


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah... That is the one I want to do next year...
> 
> 
> 
> Come check it out later this fall and see if it's for you :bandit:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I may just do that. Are you going to be keeping it low?
Click to expand...

I'll be cutting it low with the manual reel for this fall. Up in the air still if I'll get a powered reel longer term, or let it grow out a bit and go back to the rotary.


----------



## Kaba

@Stuofsci02 if you go look at it make sure you fill your pockets with FF seeds and drop them out while you walk just like in the shawshank redemption. Watch Dave lose his mind 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## davegravy

Kaba said:


> @Stuofsci02 if you go look at it make sure you fill your pockets with FF seeds and drop them out while you walk just like in the shawshank redemption. Watch Dave lose his mind 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


  I swear... I would find out where you live and release an army of voles onto your lawn! :lol:


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy joke aside, moles may visit you soon. soft and wet, they love getting off the garden beds and yard corners, get more courageous and get in. I've had plenty. Consider I live in a forest per say... animals of all kinds are a common thing. We almost adopted a deer eating my apples...but she got married, kids...you know. Still running the rant but rarely coming to say hello.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy joke aside, moles may visit you soon. soft and wet, they love getting off the garden beds and yard corners, get more courageous and get in. I've had plenty. Consider I live in a forest per say... animals of all kinds are a common thing. We almost adopted a deer eating my apples...but she got married, kids...you know. Still running the rant but rarely coming to say hello.


Birds and squirrels mostly so far, fingers crossed it stays that way!

Not too many animals around my area... unless you count the people in the park. They throw their bags of dog poo over the cedar hedge into my yard. Maybe after the reno I'll remove the hedge to reveal the manicured golf-grade turf and they'll feel too guilty to fling their garbage on it?


----------



## davegravy

Not sure what significance this has, if any. Noticing lots of earthworms have come up to the surface and died. Flies having a feast.

I did spray imidacloprid back in early Jul.


----------



## NateDawg24

davegravy said:


> Not sure what significance this has, if any. Noticing lots of earthworms have come up to the surface and died. Flies having a feast.
> 
> I did spray imidacloprid back in early Jul.


How much imidacloprid did you put down? Perhaps with all the watering it pushed the chemical down further to where the earthworms are? I put some down earlier this year (label rate) with the hopes of thinning out the dew worms population. I had only about 4 dead worms I found and it was all the first week after putting it down.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Need some pics today...... keep the content coming..


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> Need some pics today...... keep the content coming..


My bad, I was so busy gawking over it I forgot to share 😅

Green peach fuzz:


----------



## BBLOCK

woot woot!!


----------



## Stuofsci02

Wow... CSI strikes fast..


----------



## davegravy

NateDawg24 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what significance this has, if any. Noticing lots of earthworms have come up to the surface and died. Flies having a feast.
> 
> I did spray imidacloprid back in early Jul.
> 
> 
> 
> How much imidacloprid did you put down? Perhaps with all the watering it pushed the chemical down further to where the earthworms are? I put some down earlier this year (label rate) with the hopes of thinning out the dew worms population. I had only about 4 dead worms I found and it was all the first week after putting it down.
Click to expand...

Hmm, interesting.

I checked and it was actually June 14th I put it down and I did 0.6 fl oz /M.


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> Wow... CSI strikes fast..


I have whiplash.

The other night I remembered I needed something in the shed but thought "meh I'll get it tomorrow, plenty of time till germination still". Yeah, no.


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow... CSI strikes fast..
> 
> 
> 
> I have whiplash.
> 
> The other night I remembered I needed something in the shed but thought "meh I'll get it tomorrow, plenty of time till germination still". Yeah, no.
Click to expand...

Did you see @Babameca champion GQ. Looks like a lawn after 5 days.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Yes! Now another few days and the lazy KBG MF will start popping up. Get ready for the sprout and prout phase. Painful, but SO rewarding!
@Stuofsci02 If this PRG survives the winter, I am sold on doing any over seeding lawn project for tier 2 at any property. I don't truly believe yet Canada may produce a sustainable tier one pure PRG lawn...yet. To follow.
@NateDawg24 We discussed I think worms already. The only things that work by order:
1. Sevin (old formula). Banned almost everywhere. 
2. Thiophanate-methyl or better know as 3336 fungicide. Not legal in Canada.
3. Saponin based fertilizer. Banned, not long ago in Canada


----------



## davegravy

@Babameca few days? How about not...



Baby KBG (I assume).

I think i'll mark this as DAG = 0 (days after germination)


----------



## SNOWBOB11

@davegravy That is definitely poa you have germinating there.

Poa pratensis. :nod:


----------



## davegravy

SNOWBOB11 said:


> @davegravy That is definitely poa you have germinating there.
> 
> Poa pratensis. :nod:


Lol. I almost don't care what it is as long as it's not Festuca rubra


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Yes! That's one cultivar, wait for lazy one... Day 17 was my first mow. Get ready!


----------



## davegravy

Anyone think this is worth pursuing?

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-lawnmower-leaf-blower/kawartha-lakes/2-greens-mowers/1511857679

Price seems suspiciously low for 2 units. Waiting to hear if they'll sell one unit separate. Says the belt is broken which I don't expect is a major repair.


----------



## davegravy

davegravy said:


> Anyone think this is worth pursuing?
> 
> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-lawnmower-leaf-blower/kawartha-lakes/2-greens-mowers/1511857679
> 
> Price seems suspiciously low for 2 units. Waiting to hear if they'll sell one unit separate. Says the belt is broken which I don't expect is a major repair.


Nevermind. Just realized I could zoom the photo and I'm seeing a lot of corrosion.


----------



## Stuofsci02

@davegravy Unless you are looking for a project I would pass. Without seeing the reels it is impossible to say. I got my mint Flex21 for $900.

Those might be good for parts machines though if you could get the pair for $300.


----------



## davegravy

I took apart the push mower I got cheap on Kijiji. Adjusted the bed knife, put on some lapping compound and ran the reel backwards with a corded drill.

Cuts paper nicely now across almost the entire reel. There's a small section in the middle that struggles but I don't know how to fix that other than wearing down the sides.

It's a bit tougher to push now but it's giving a way better cut it seems. Looking forward to using it on the reno.

Tenacity turning weeds yellow/white, but also the tips of some grass babies:


----------



## Kaba

@davegravy did you buy the sharpening kit or the compound on its own? I was looking to pick up some compound myself


----------



## davegravy

Kaba said:


> @davegravy did you buy the sharpening kit or the compound on its own? I was looking to pick up some compound myself


The kit, didn't see the compound available on its own.


----------



## davegravy

Kaba said:


> @davegravy did you buy the sharpening kit or the compound on its own? I was looking to pick up some compound myself


The kit, didn't see the compound available on its own.


----------



## Kaba

I know I've been trying to source the compound on its own too. Likely going to need to go to an industrial supplier/machinery to find some on its own.


----------



## g-man

Check an auto part store. It might be more sticky, but it will work.


----------



## davegravy

Kaba said:


> I know I've been trying to source the compound on its own too. Likely going to need to go to an industrial supplier/machinery to find some on its own.


Now that I bought the kit :

https://americanlawnmower.com/collections/replacement-parts/products/31035

I didn't go straight through to checkout so may not ship to Canada.

Now if only I could find a bed knife replacement. Mine still has some life in it but getting to the end of the adjustment range.


----------



## SodFace

Lee Valley might have your back

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/garden/garden-care/tool-maintenance/101917-lapping-compound-for-hand-mower-sharpening-kit?item=PA807


----------



## Kaba

@SodFace I tip my hat to you, thank you!

@g-man I will also check some auto suppliers too thank you!


----------



## davegravy

Starting to become obvious where the thin areas are that will need a re-seed.



Especially the shaded area right along the back of the house that was formally all Triv. Water is pooling there big time even on a light watering, and barely any germination happening.

Been super lucky with no downpours/washout so far. Knock on wood.


----------



## Stuofsci02

From that pic I don't think you need to reseed... it is looking good... give it time!


----------



## Babameca

+1. It will fill in. Germination is far from being over. If it makes feel better, throw some now. You are getting the last train on KBG.


----------



## DAM Lawn

Looking awesome...great job!! It will do nothing but keep filling in, however I am always heavy handed with seed. When it doubt throw more out!


----------



## Stuofsci02

It is usually the thin areas that come in the best the following year....


----------



## davegravy

I know you gotta worry about washout with rain, but what about impact craters from hail? 

...in August.

https://youtu.be/fZuJ2ceqXc0


----------



## g-man

Hail can cause some serious damage.


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> I know you gotta worry about washout with rain, but what about impact craters from hail?
> 
> ...in August.


Oh man.. At least they were baby hail.


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know you gotta worry about washout with rain, but what about impact craters from hail?
> 
> ...in August.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man.. At least they were baby hail.
Click to expand...

Yup pretty small. I got anxious anyways 😛


----------



## davegravy

The storm took a branch (with leaves) off a neighbour's tree and dropped it in the middle of my reno.

Don't really want to walk on the reno yet but if I don't the seedlings under the branch are gonna die.

I'll step lightly but I assume it should be ok?


----------



## Sinclair

A few foot prints won't hurt. Try not to pivot or twist your foot at all. Consciously think about putting your foot straight down and lifting it straight up.


----------



## Babameca

I would also add, walk straight to it. Don't try to do the perimeter. Center of the lawn will most of the time be the best looking.


----------



## Stuofsci02

@davegravy any more pics from today. Was looking great yesterday...


----------



## davegravy

Retrieved the branch, and did my best cartoon sneak walk. Neighbours think I'm really insane now.

Got a better closeup view of more areas of the yard while I was out there. The areas that look thin have good PRG germination but there's little to no sign of KBG still. Meanwhile KBG has sprouted in many places but has stalled at less than half an inch. I imagined sprout n' pout happened a little later.

Found this bad boy growing near the branch, big and tall. KY-31 maybe? Looks maybe a bit bleached from tenacity but mostly unaffected?





Sorry @Stuofsci02 I dropped the ball on pics yesterday. Later today when the sun is better!


----------



## NateDawg24

davegravy said:


> Kaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know I've been trying to source the compound on its own too. Likely going to need to go to an industrial supplier/machinery to find some on its own.
> 
> 
> 
> Now that I bought the kit :
> 
> https://americanlawnmower.com/collections/replacement-parts/products/31035
> 
> I didn't go straight through to checkout so may not ship to Canada.
> 
> Now if only I could find a bed knife replacement. Mine still has some life in it but getting to the end of the adjustment range.
Click to expand...

Sounds like I may be late for this but I believe you can use this product for your reel sharpening and is at Canadian Tire
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/permatex-valve-grinding-compound-42-g-0380410p.html
Under features it even states reel mower sharpening.


----------



## Matix99def

Yea, I use that on mine. No issues.


----------



## davegravy

Shaded area with poor germination (used to be all Triv):




Area with great germination:



Overall:


----------



## Stuofsci02

I love it!! @davegravy ... How long since seed down now? 10 days? Already starting to look like a lawn again.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Looks great! Where is the video of the cartoon walk???
That looks like weed to me. Double check if it is not quack grass. If only few, nothing to worry about at this point.
I would throw just a bit more seed in the shadowy area. IME you may have winter die off, due to slow germination. PRG may cover up. Over a few seasons KBG may cover up, but definitely with PGR! That changed my game under my trees.


----------



## Kaba

Looks amazing man! Very good work


----------



## davegravy

Thanks all! Yes @Stuofsci02 10 days past seed down.

When should I plan my first mow? @g-man's reno guide says 28 DAG at 1.5-2" HOC but the PRG is already 2.5-3" in places and I' m afraid by 28 days it'll be a mile long.

Can I expect the PRG to slow down and the kbg to catch up? Don't want to cut now, the kbg hasn't even all germinated.


----------



## g-man

Keep at 1.5-2.0in range. If it is at 2.5, go mow.


----------



## davegravy

g-man said:


> Keep at 1.5-2.0in range. If it is at 2.5, go mow.


Thanks. I just want to make sure you saw the bit about KBG. The PRG is tall but the KBG is just sprouted /sprouting.

To be extra sure, I'm not at risk of doing serious damage to the very young stuff as long as mow&walk carefully?

Just being extra cautious because the internet is littered with people saying don't walk on very young seedlings. The internet is often wrong of course...


----------



## g-man

That's the problem with prg. It grows too fast and shades the kbg. If you don't mow it, the kbg will suffer. If the kbg is less than 0.5in, you can cause some damage by walking on it. Just be careful.


----------



## davegravy

g-man said:


> That's the problem with prg. It grows too fast and shades the kbg. If you don't mow it, the kbg will suffer. If the kbg is less than 0.5in, you can cause some damage by walking on it. Just be careful.


Yeah the KBG is definitely less than 0.5" in many places. The seed mix is only 25% PRG and there looks to be a good bit of space between PRG plants. Looks like there's still lots of light getting down to the KBG.

If shading out the KBG is the main reason to cut the PRG I'm tempted to wait a few more days for the KBG to establish.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Day 17 was my first mow. 20% PRG makes for a sparse coverage. I wouldn't worry yet of a shadowing effect.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Day 17 was my first mow. 20% PRG makes for a sparse coverage. I wouldn't worry yet of a shadowing effect.


Thanks. Day 17 after germination or after seed down?


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Seed down. Look at my journal and compare your coverage.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Seed down. Look at my journal and compare your coverage.


Good idea. Looks very similar!

(except I didn't miss an entire square area :banana


----------



## Sinclair

davegravy said:


> Anyone think this is worth pursuing?
> 
> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-lawnmower-leaf-blower/kawartha-lakes/2-greens-mowers/1511857679
> 
> Price seems suspiciously low for 2 units. Waiting to hear if they'll sell one unit separate. Says the belt is broken which I don't expect is a major repair.


I've been watching this ad for some time.

He's down to $500. I bet he'd take $400. It's getting very close to a justifiable risk.

Even if both machines need a new reel, bed knife, and front rollers...it's getting to the point where you could fix both machines, sell one, and come out with a free mower.


----------



## davegravy

Sinclair said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone think this is worth pursuing?
> 
> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-lawnmower-leaf-blower/kawartha-lakes/2-greens-mowers/1511857679
> 
> Price seems suspiciously low for 2 units. Waiting to hear if they'll sell one unit separate. Says the belt is broken which I don't expect is a major repair.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been watching this ad for some time.
> 
> He's down to $500. I bet he'd take $400. It's getting very close to a justifiable risk.
> 
> Even if both machines need a new reel, bed knife, and front rollers...it's getting to the point where you could fix both machines, sell one, and come out with a free mower.
Click to expand...

If it wasn't such a long drive I'd go see them. So much corrosion though, makes me wonder how well they were cared for and what else could be about to break.

Been watching the classifieds and there's pretty dismal supply. Maybe it picks up at the end of the season with golf courses retiring equipment?


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> Over a few seasons KBG may cover up, but definitely with PGR! That changed my game under my trees.


Can you elaborate? I've been using Anuew on my front lawn which gets a fair bit of tree shade. I haven't noticed it doing any better, it's still quite thin. It's not even an area with a lot of FF (other parts of my front yard are all FF)


----------



## davegravy

davegravy said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over a few seasons KBG may cover up, but definitely with PGR! That changed my game under my trees.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you elaborate? I've been using Anuew on my front lawn which gets a fair bit of tree shade. I haven't noticed it doing any better, it's still quite thin. It's not even an area with a lot of FF (other parts of my front yard are all FF)
Click to expand...


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Yes. For the first time I am able to sustain and spread KBG under my trees. No sun, and competition for tree roots made it a lost cause. Until my reno. Only 2 things changed. Award KBG (pretty darn high scores for shade...don't know why everyone goes Mazama...) and 2nd, T-Nex. PGR's are named to improve heat AND shade tolerance.
Anyhow. My back yard is the original Nomix and looks awesome under regulation in 30-50% sun exposure.
I have a stripe 3 feet wide that can't get any sun by now due to the angle the sun is moving. Will definitely follow up for you.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Yes. For the first time I am able to sustain and spread KBG under my trees. No sun, and competition for tree roots made it a lost cause. Until my reno. Only 2 things changed. Award KBG (pretty darn high scores for shade...don't know why everyone goes Mazama...) and 2nd, T-Nex. PGR's are named to improve heat AND shade tolerance.
> Anyhow. My back yard is the original Nomix and looks awesome under regulation in 30-50% sun exposure.
> I have a stripe 3 feet wide that can't get any sun by now due to the angle the sun is moving. Will definitely follow up for you.


Yeah let me know.

I'm tempted to put a plug of my new elite grass in the front to see how it thrives in the shade compared to the nomix.


----------



## Kaba

My experiment with 5 left over elite sod rolls in the front flopped. Too much shade. Need to overseed some FF lol.


----------



## davegravy

Kaba said:


> My experiment with 5 left over elite sod rolls in the front flopped. Too much shade. Need to overseed some FF lol.


 :shock:


----------



## davegravy

Kaba said:


> My experiment with 5 left over elite sod rolls in the front flopped. Too much shade. Need to overseed some FF lol.


Know if your sod had any shade tolerant cultivars in it?

Want a small sample of my seed mix to see how the NuGlade and Award do for you?


----------



## davegravy

This morning's progress. A bit of new germination still happening but slowed way down. Some nice tillering in PRG and even some of the older KBG.



Some spots got OK PRG germination but little to no KBG germination and other spots have lots of KBG so I'm a bit concerned about uniformity. I guess it will work itself out in the long run since all the cultivars are spreading type?

Going to do first (careful) mow before I leave today for a week, and also toss down a bit more seed and peat on the thin shaded area. Got my wyze cam setup through the back window so I can continue to post update pics (although crappier image quality)


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> This morning's progress. A bit of new germination still happening but slowed way down. Some nice tillering in PRG and even some of the older KBG.
> 
> 
> 
> Some spots got OK PRG germination but little to no KBG germination and other spots have lots of KBG so I'm a bit concerned about uniformity. I guess it will work itself out in the long run since all the cultivars are spreading type?
> 
> Going to do first (careful) mow before I leave today for a week, and also toss down a bit more seed and peat on the thin shaded area. Got my wyze cam setup through the back window so I can continue to post update pics (although crappier image quality)


You coverage looks fantastic. You have nothing to worry about.... This will be all filled in about 3 weeks....


----------



## BBLOCK

where u going for a week! are you anxious to be leaving your grass babies?


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> where u going for a week! are you anxious to be leaving your grass babies?


Cottage north of Parry Sound, so only 2.5 hrs away if I need to run back home.

I am nervous, but not nearly as much as I would have been if I'd seeded on the 15th as planned. Things are pretty well established now I think. Long as my irrigation system doesn't blow up a la @Stuofsci02 things should be good. With remote control and video monitoring I feel safe.


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> BBLOCK said:
> 
> 
> 
> where u going for a week! are you anxious to be leaving your grass babies?
> 
> 
> 
> Cottage north of Parry Sound. I am nervous, but not nearly as much as I would have been if I'd seeded on the 15th as planned. Things are pretty well established now I think. Long as my irrigation system doesn't blow up a la @Stuofsci02 things should be good.
Click to expand...

You mean the part that I am ripping up and moving?


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBLOCK said:
> 
> 
> 
> where u going for a week! are you anxious to be leaving your grass babies?
> 
> 
> 
> Cottage north of Parry Sound. I am nervous, but not nearly as much as I would have been if I'd seeded on the 15th as planned. Things are pretty well established now I think. Long as my irrigation system doesn't blow up a la @Stuofsci02 things should be good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean the part that I am ripping up and moving?
Click to expand...

Lol, the part that blew up and took out your whole back yard (except for those beautiful green polka dots)


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cottage north of Parry Sound. I am nervous, but not nearly as much as I would have been if I'd seeded on the 15th as planned. Things are pretty well established now I think. Long as my irrigation system doesn't blow up a la @Stuofsci02 things should be good.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the part that I am ripping up and moving?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, the part that blew up and took out your whole back yard (except for those beautiful green polka dots)
Click to expand...

Nah.. Nothing blew up there except the town I live in banning watering for 10 days during the hottest part of the summer. Once it was dormant I made no effort to bring it back....


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the part that I am ripping up and moving?
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, the part that blew up and took out your whole back yard (except for those beautiful green polka dots)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nah.. Nothing blew up there except the town I live in banning watering for 10 days during the hottest part of the summer. Once it was dormant I made no effort to bring it back....
Click to expand...

Guess I misread... what caused those green patches around your sprinkler heads then?


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, the part that blew up and took out your whole back yard (except for those beautiful green polka dots)
> 
> 
> 
> Nah.. Nothing blew up there except the town I live in banning watering for 10 days during the hottest part of the summer. Once it was dormant I made no effort to bring it back....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guess I misread... what caused those green patches around your sprinkler heads then?
Click to expand...

Just that the sprinkler heads put out a little more water right around the heads. Especially mine since the heads are a little low due to some top dressing I did a few years ago which means some of the spray hits right at the head. These areas had more moisture in the soil and so they stayed greener longer...


----------



## BBLOCK

davegravy said:


> BBLOCK said:
> 
> 
> 
> where u going for a week! are you anxious to be leaving your grass babies?
> 
> 
> 
> Cottage north of Parry Sound, so only 2.5 hrs away if I need to run back home.
> 
> I am nervous, but not nearly as much as I would have been if I'd seeded on the 15th as planned. Things are pretty well established now I think. Long as my irrigation system doesn't blow up a la @Stuofsci02 things should be good. With remote control and video monitoring I feel safe.
Click to expand...

awesome! yeah hopefully you don't get any frozen sprinklers. an issue I've been dealing w.


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBLOCK said:
> 
> 
> 
> where u going for a week! are you anxious to be leaving your grass babies?
> 
> 
> 
> Cottage north of Parry Sound, so only 2.5 hrs away if I need to run back home.
> 
> I am nervous, but not nearly as much as I would have been if I'd seeded on the 15th as planned. Things are pretty well established now I think. Long as my irrigation system doesn't blow up a la @Stuofsci02 things should be good. With remote control and video monitoring I feel safe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> awesome! yeah hopefully you don't get any frozen sprinklers. an issue I've been dealing w.
Click to expand...

I had one nozzle in the first batch that froze but I fixed it. That's a good point I should inspect before I go and make sure none of the others have developed this issue.


----------



## Kaba

Your grass will be on cruise control now, enjoy the vacation from it! You'll come back home ready to mow!!


----------



## davegravy

Did a couple last minute tasks before taking off yesterday.

Threw more seed and peat down on a couple spots which were pretty bare



First mow!


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Looks awesome! And too worried about bare. KBG will unleash in a few weeks. Next spring only pictures will remind you of 'bare spots'... Just because the shadowy areas, I think, you have to consider PGR next year...


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Looks awesome! And too worried about bare. KBG will unleash in a few weeks. Next spring only pictures will remind you of 'bare spots'... Just because the shadowy areas, I think, you have to consider PGR next year...


I already have Anuew, can't say it's done much for me on the front with the (high FF%) Nomix


----------



## Babameca

What is FF? :lol:


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> What is FF? :lol:


I think you're joking but not sure 😛

Fine fescue, and if you are joking I have another emoji for you that the moderators will probably censor 😉


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy I do. Not sure this 'weed' is even on the label. Anyhow, plenty to explore from now on.


----------



## BBLOCK

I think that's his way of saying you'll be doing a front reno next year lol


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> I think that's his way of saying you'll be doing a front reno next year lol


 :lol:

Don't worry I've already started working on the wife but I think she needs to see the backyard prove itself first.

Also I'm worried like @Kaba I have too much shade to support even the NuGlade variety.

I think later this fall I will take a plug from the back yard and put it in the shadiest front yard spot to see how it fares.


----------



## davegravy

What do you all think of this guy?

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-lawnmower-leaf-blower/belleville/turf-mower-toro-greensmaster-flex-21/1519865593?utm_source=Gmail&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_content=app_android

What are the main questions I should be asking to assess value? For example are there some components prone to breaking that are expensive or difficult to source?


----------



## Babameca

Good reel, no leaks. Motor running smooth. A lot can break and it is mostly expensive, but those are made like tanks. @Stuofsci02 anything about the floating head? It also runs electric motor if I am not wrong.
BTW I may see a leak on the right side, or it is just overgreasing. Also, is it 'jacked up' and how many blades is the reel.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Get that mower. If you don't I might need to. It is an hour from me. Swing by on the way back and compare to mine. I can't tell how many blades are on the reel, or if it has the high HOC kit. You will need the high HOC kit which is about $100.

I'm dead serious. Let me know if you are going to pass on this..


----------



## Sinclair

I sent that kijiji ad to @MMoore ...but he might miss out!


----------



## davegravy

Well I'm way up north on vacation till Monday, it's a 9hr drive roundtrip from here. Understandably my wife doesn't like the idea of me running off on a road trip in the middle of our retreat for a mower, though I personally would consider it 😕

So I I'll have to see if it's still available next week, which sounds unlikely given the demand... Bad vacation timing!

@Stuofsci02 I'm surprised you're interested in it given your already have one. Something wrong with your current unit?


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Well I'm way up north on vacation till Monday, it's a 9hr drive roundtrip from here. Understandably my wife doesn't like the idea of me running off on a road trip in the middle of our retreat for a mower, though I personally would consider it 😕
> 
> So I I'll have to see if it's still available next week, which sounds unlikely given the demand... Bad vacation timing!
> 
> @Stuofsci02 I'm surprised you're interested in it given your already have one. Something wrong with your current unit?


Nothing wrong with my current one.. In fact it is running great. I just love these machines and they are hard to find. $650 CAD for one in good condition is a bargain. I'd like to swap out to an 8 blade reel (I have 11), so having a second one would be sweet..... Besides my wife says I need another mower..... she may have ended that with "like I need a hole in my head", but I tuned out for that part...


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I'm way up north on vacation till Monday, it's a 9hr drive roundtrip from here. Understandably my wife doesn't like the idea of me running off on a road trip in the middle of our retreat for a mower, though I personally would consider it 😕
> 
> So I I'll have to see if it's still available next week, which sounds unlikely given the demand... Bad vacation timing!
> 
> @Stuofsci02 I'm surprised you're interested in it given your already have one. Something wrong with your current unit?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing wrong with my current one.. In fact it is running great. I just love these machines and they are hard to find. $650 CAD for one in good condition is a bargain. I'd like to swap out to an 8 blade reel (I have 11), so having a second one would be sweet..... Besides my wife says I need another mower..... she may have ended that with "like I need a hole in my head", but I tuned out for that part...
Click to expand...

Rofl

Go buy it and sell me the one you like less. Then you can make you, me, and your wife happy in one shot 😜


----------



## davegravy

Wyze cam update


----------



## Babameca

It will be mow time at your return. It already is IMO.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> It will be mow time at your return. It already is IMO.


Yeah I cut it before I left at 2" as I didn't want to break the 1/3 rule. Probably should have cut at 1.5". Oh well...


----------



## g-man

Going on vacation during a reno? brave.


----------



## davegravy

g-man said:


> Going on vacation during a reno? brave.


Yeah @BBLOCK had the same comment.😳

It was reno during vacation or no reno for another year, and @Babameca convinced me it could be done so I rolled the dice. I will blame him fully if it fails 😛


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Enjoy the time off with your family! The rest is just ....grass.


----------



## MMoore

Messaged about that mower. If one of you get it that's great but come cut my lawn with it once and a while. &#128517;


----------



## Stuofsci02

MMoore said:


> Messaged about that mower. If one of you get it that's great but come cut my lawn with it once and a while. 😅


I messaged her. I don't really need it, so if someone else on the forum wants it, then go for it. If not I will go take a look and buy it if its as good as it looks.


----------



## BBLOCK

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Enjoy the time off with your family! The rest is just ....grass.


 @davegravy

hopefully living grass? lol

yeah. i wonder how many times you checked the cameras today? im going to say 45...


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy Enjoy the time off with your family! The rest is just ....grass.
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy
> 
> hopefully living grass? lol
> 
> yeah. i wonder how many times you checked the cameras today? im going to say 45...
Click to expand...

Higher likely 😛

Hey... as the sun angle changes throughout the day, the grass looks a bit different so I need to check.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> The rest is just ....grass.


Says the guy with 14 lawn projects! 🤣

So if I come home to an overgrown forest, how gradually do you think I need to bring it back to 1.5" with the push mower?

I know with a mature lawn I would do it pretty slowly, but with young grass I'm guessing it's even more sensitive... Or maybe not because it hasn't been trained at a set height yet?

I'm thinking I would mostly be stressing the PRG by mowing a bit aggressively, the kbg will still probably be less than 1.5". Maybe I don't worry about stressing the PRG because it might equalize the growth rate a bit?


----------



## MMoore

Stuofsci02 said:


> MMoore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Messaged about that mower. If one of you get it that's great but come cut my lawn with it once and a while. 😅
> 
> 
> 
> I messaged her. I don't really need it, so if someone else on the forum wants it, then go for it. If not I will go take a look and buy it if its as good as it looks.
Click to expand...

She message you back?

I haven't gotten anything


----------



## Stuofsci02

MMoore said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MMoore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Messaged about that mower. If one of you get it that's great but come cut my lawn with it once and a while. 😅
> 
> 
> 
> I messaged her. I don't really need it, so if someone else on the forum wants it, then go for it. If not I will go take a look and buy it if its as good as it looks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She message you back?
> 
> I haven't gotten anything
Click to expand...

Nope... Nothing...


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> MMoore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I messaged her. I don't really need it, so if someone else on the forum wants it, then go for it. If not I will go take a look and buy it if its as good as it looks.
> 
> 
> 
> She message you back?
> 
> I haven't gotten anything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope... Nothing...
Click to expand...

Weird, I got an answer on Aug 24



> Yes, it was used on a golf course a few years ago. It was very well maintained, I bought it from the greens manager for my own golf green in my front yard. I do not know when it was last serviced.


And then no response to my followup. May have sold?


----------



## Stuofsci02

Thanks @davegravy .. Maybe if she doesn't respond to me it will save me some money. I hope one of you guys can get it.


----------



## MMoore

She just responded. Its an 11 blade reel.

I also think im going to back out because i just bought a bunch of bike bits and i think i would be sleeping in the car if i get another mower right now. ("we don't need electronic shifting for a bicycle")
if someone buys it and doesnt want/need it next year let me know.


----------



## davegravy

MMoore said:


> She just responded. Its an 11 blade reel.
> 
> I also think im going to back out because i just bought a bunch of bike bits and i think i would be sleeping in the car if i get another mower right now. ("we don't need electronic shifting for a bicycle")
> if someone buys it and doesnt want/need it next year let me know.


Ok so I might actually have a shot at this then
... though I might have to sleep a few nights in the car 😛

Any idea if I should be able to fit this thing in the back of a compact SUV with seats down? Sheet of plywood as a ramp to get it up and into the trunk?


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy look at overall width in the manual (online) all the rest will fit with little disassembly. Go get it champ! 11 blades is not ideal but price....I paid double for mine.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy look at overall width in the manual (online) all the rest will fit with little disassembly. Go get it champ! 11 blades is not ideal but price....I paid double for mine.


Thanks, out of curiosity why is 11 blades non-ideal? I would have thought more is better.


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy look at overall width in the manual (online) all the rest will fit with little disassembly. Go get it champ! 11 blades is not ideal but price....I paid double for mine.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, out of curiosity why is 11 blades non-ideal? I would have thought more is better.
Click to expand...

The 11-blade reel is better for lower heights. At 3/4" and higher it misses some blades of grass. I have to double cut because of this. You can change the reel...

FYI the Flex 21 just fit in my minivan.


----------



## jrubb42

@davegravy I fit a GM1000 in the back of my mid sized SUV no problem (with the back seats down). Just put an old blanket down or tarp and lean the mower back onto it's handle. If you have sandbags, I'd throw one on the handle and one by the back roller so it doesn't shift around.

I agree with @Babameca, 11 blade is not ideal but @Stuofsci02 has an 11 reel and the high cut clip kit and it looks like it cuts pretty damn well. Sounded like it was around $100. Wayyy cheaper than a new 8 blade reel, which is the route I went with my GM1000.


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy look at overall width in the manual (online) all the rest will fit with little disassembly. Go get it champ! 11 blades is not ideal but price....I paid double for mine.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, out of curiosity why is 11 blades non-ideal? I would have thought more is better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The 11-blade reel is better for lower heights. At 3/4" and higher it misses some blades of grass. I have to double cut because of this. You can change the reel...
> 
> FYI the Flex 21 just fit in my minivan.
Click to expand...

Yikes, I imagine a minivan has a wider trunk opening than my cSUV. Do you remember if it was height or width that was the tight dimension? I imagine you could easily remove the handle to save some height but width would be tough to shrink down.

Also, any tips on how to visually tell how much life is left in the reel?


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Old but gold (beyond page 10):
https://cdn2.toro.com/en/-/media/Files/Toro/Commercial/education-technical-references/service-training-guides/09168sl_5-4-2018.ashx?la=en&hash=1531E3CD624D41D0E5C07157493AFECD0FF67BEE


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, out of curiosity why is 11 blades non-ideal? I would have thought more is better.
> 
> 
> 
> The 11-blade reel is better for lower heights. At 3/4" and higher it misses some blades of grass. I have to double cut because of this. You can change the reel...
> 
> FYI the Flex 21 just fit in my minivan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yikes, I imagine a minivan has a wider trunk opening than my cSUV. Do you remember if it was height or width that was the tight dimension? I imagine you could easily remove the handle to save some height but width would be tough to shrink down.
> 
> Also, any tips on how to visually tell how much life is left in the reel?
Click to expand...

The width of the opening is not an issue. It was more the length and height. I had it sitting in the back of my minivan flat and the handle was touch the roof. You could tip it back for sure, but that makes it longer. I think you would want at least 5ft of length in your back to handle it. Also you will need ramps. There is no way you can pick that up and put it in without having someone else there to help you and even then......

What kind of SUV do you have?


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 11-blade reel is better for lower heights. At 3/4" and higher it misses some blades of grass. I have to double cut because of this. You can change the reel...
> 
> FYI the Flex 21 just fit in my minivan.
> 
> 
> 
> Yikes, I imagine a minivan has a wider trunk opening than my cSUV. Do you remember if it was height or width that was the tight dimension? I imagine you could easily remove the handle to save some height but width would be tough to shrink down.
> 
> Also, any tips on how to visually tell how much life is left in the reel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The width of the opening is not an issue. It was more the length and height. I had it sitting in the back of my minivan flat and the handle was touch the roof. You could tip it back for sure, but that makes it longer. I think you would want at least 5ft of length in your back to handle it. Also you will need ramps. There is no way you can pick that up and put it in without having someone else there to help you and even then......
> 
> What kind of SUV do you have?
Click to expand...

Good to know, thanks.

Mazda cx-5. I think I'd have 5ft length from trunk to back of front seats... will measure.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Old but gold (beyond page 10):
> https://cdn2.toro.com/en/-/media/Files/Toro/Commercial/education-technical-references/service-training-guides/09168sl_5-4-2018.ashx?la=en&hash=1531E3CD624D41D0E5C07157493AFECD0FF67BEE


Thanks, I just got through this.

Grinding concerns me, looks like something which would need dealer service and not something you can do yourself. How often is grinding needed typically (at homeowner workloads) and how expensive is it?

Seems like it should be easy to visually assess how much life is left in the bed knife, but how close you are to the service limit on the reel seems like it will need calipers? I guess at this price if I have to drop a few hundred to replace the reel it's not the end of the world.

@Stuofsci02 where did you source your high hoc kit? This kit isn't listed under available accessories for the 04022 model on the Toro site. How do I make sure it's compatible?

Edit : hmm.. It shows up for the 260000001 - 260003000 serial # range but not for any of the later serial numbers...


----------



## davegravy

Wyze cam update. Dreaming of cutting this.


----------



## Stuofsci02

@davegravy ... The high HOC kit came installed from the previous owner. He gave me the box it came in so I can check when I get home from work.

Did Nancy get back to you? She told me it was available and I asked her if I could come look at it.. She has not responded...


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Wyze cam update. Dreaming of cutting this.


Just throwing this out there, but why didn't you just bury your center pipe for your sprinklers so you don't need to pull it up and down? Probably would have taken an extra 2 hours?

Cheers...


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> @davegravy ... The high HOC kit came installed from the previous owner. He gave me the box it came in so I can check when I get home from work.
> 
> Did Nancy get back to you? She told me it was available and I asked her if I could come look at it.. She has not responded...


She did respond but I told her I couldn't come until next week so I'd follow up if it's still available.


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wyze cam update. Dreaming of cutting this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just throwing this out there, but why didn't you just bury your center pipe for your sprinklers so you don't need to pull it up and down? Probably would have taken an extra 2 hours?
> 
> Cheers...
Click to expand...

Same reason I didn't bury any of the perimeter piping. We're planning a fairly major house reno and relandscaping (likely adding flower beds and a back deck). Consequently all our head positions will likely need to change and I don't want to dig the whole system up to rejig it.

You might argue I should have waited on the turf reno but Covid was our 3rd year postponing the project and I just got too anxious to wait.


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wyze cam update. Dreaming of cutting this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just throwing this out there, but why didn't you just bury your center pipe for your sprinklers so you don't need to pull it up and down? Probably would have taken an extra 2 hours?
> 
> Cheers...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same reason I didn't bury any of the perimeter piping. We're planning a fairly major house reno and relandscaping (likely adding flower beds and a back deck). Consequently all our head positions will likely need to change and I don't want to dig the whole system up to rejig it.
> 
> You might argue I should have waited on the turf reno but Covid was our 3rd year postponing the project and I just got too anxious to wait.
Click to expand...

Fair enough....


----------



## davegravy

Wyze cam update



Can't wait to mow this tomorrow. I'm thinking I'll go over it a few times gradually lowering hoc with the push reel and then finish with the rotary as a vacuum only (not cutting, just bagging). Might break the 1/3 rule but only on the PRG, I want to make sure the kbg isn't shaded out.

Curious to know if those white specs are weeds that the tenacity has bleached. When is Wyze releasing a 4k cam?

Hopefully going out to visit Nancy on Tuesday or Wednesday. Waiting for her to confirm.


----------



## Babameca

Most probably bleached weeds, bit could be just fallen leaf.


----------



## davegravy

Turns out they're weeds but not bleached. I thought tenacity when used as pre-emergent bleached weed seedlings white and killed them before they got very mature. Can't see any evidence of that and there's plenty of weeds but maybe less than other seeding projects I've done previously.

I hand pulled the most mature broadleaf weeds and about 2 dozen quackgrass plants. I'm concerned about the amount of baby spurge plants. That stuff spreads like wildfire and can choke out grass like nothing else.

Most of the lawn was like this with lots of KBG growing between sparse PRG. It's still pretty short, less than an 0.5" in many places (maybe this is the lazy cultivar @Babameca mentioned)



This one area has insanely dense PRG. I doubt any kbg will survive in there.



A bit overgrown



I did 3 passes with the push mower gradually working the HOC down to 1.5", then l vacuumed up the clippings with the rotary.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Finally... lol... been waiting to see your progress. It looks really good...


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Tenacity does not stop all. I am more concerned about your quackgrass than the spurge. The latter is a seed master but low Par3 app knocks it down in 24h! And it is annual! Prodiamine early next year will put it in your memories for good. Quack you have to do one by one. If you have it now, it will come back.
It looks so FULL and dense! And don't worry about PRG taking over KBG. It never happens on the long run. Start pushing N now!


----------



## g-man

Why are you removing clippings?


----------



## jrubb42

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Tenacity does not stop all. I am more concerned about your quackgrass than the spurge. The latter is a seed master but low Par3 app knocks it down in 24h! And it is annual! Prodiamine early next year will put it in your memories for good. Quack you have to do one by one. If you have it now, it will come back.
> It looks so FULL and dense! And don't worry about PRG taking over KBG. It never happens on the long run. Start pushing N now!


I've dealt with quackgrass since I moved into my home and it's the devil. My backyard is so full of it, it's unreal. My front yard had a small amount. Since mowing low in my front yard, you don't even know it's there. It hates being mowed low and you thin it out/camouflage it no problem going low. Just another reason to jump on the reel low train. Ha.

If you don't plan on going low, get rid of that sh*t NOW... It will invade your yard and kick it's *** if you don't do anything about it.


----------



## davegravy

g-man said:


> Why are you removing clippings?


I definitely plan to leave the clippings when mowing regularly, going forward.

I was away a week, the PRG was overgrown and I cut a lot off. I thought because the clippings were so long and there was so much of them I'd risk smothering the kbg which is still very short. I'm guessing you're gonna tell me I could have left them?


----------



## g-man

Yeah. Keep the nutrients in the soil and dont risk sucking up the kbg/ walking over multiple times. Removing clippings removes NPK.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Tenacity does not stop all. I am more concerned about your quackgrass than the spurge. The latter is a seed master but low Par3 app knocks it down in 24h! And it is annual! Prodiamine early next year will put it in your memories for good. Quack you have to do one by one. If you have it now, it will come back.
> It looks so FULL and dense! And don't worry about PRG taking over KBG. It never happens on the long run. Start pushing N now!


Good news, I don't think it is quackgrass after all. After researching, the stuff I was pulling was too shallowly rooted. Came up extremely easily and no rhizomes/stolons. I'll try to ID it better tomorrow.

Do you agree it's too soon to apply 3way? General recommendation is after 2-4 mows, which I've done, but if I'd planted 100% KBG I wouldn't have mowed yet once. Some of the KBG is very small/young.

I will do another round of tenacity next week to hopefully help with new weeds germinating.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy I wouldn't worry about broadleafs now, considering having KBG. Huge salads, just pull out.


----------



## davegravy

Replaced the traction control cable on my lawn boy. $20 part that took me over 2 hours to replace due to silly design. Also discovered the traction power belt rubs against one of the control cable cable management anchor nuts, and the belt is getting worn. Seems like a major design flaw.

No reply from Nancy in a few days, looking unlikely that it's still available. Would be nice if she took the auction down so I can stop holding my breath.


----------



## davegravy

Water main burst under my neighbour's driveway and I should have seen it coming but a city worker came up to and said they were shutting off the street in 30mins to repair it. This was after I just finished spraying 0.5lbs/k N (from urea) on the non-reno grass, and was about to set up the sprinkler to water in.

I scrambled to fill the bathtub, some kitchen pots and other high priority wife requests, and then in the last 15 minutes I ran around the yard with the hand sprayer to give the grass a quick wash off. I should be ok right?


----------



## SNOWBOB11

davegravy said:


> Water main burst under my neighbour's driveway and I should have seen it coming but a city worker came up to and said they were shutting off the street in 30mins to repair it. This was after I just finished spraying 0.5lbs/k N (from urea) on the non-reno grass, and was about to set up the sprinkler to water in.
> 
> I scrambled to fill the bathtub, some kitchen pots and other high priority wife requests, and then in the last 15 minutes I ran around the yard with the hand sprayer to give the grass a quick wash off. I should be ok right?


You should be fine. Did they say how long the water would be off for?


----------



## davegravy

SNOWBOB11 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Water main burst under my neighbour's driveway and I should have seen it coming but a city worker came up to and said they were shutting off the street in 30mins to repair it. This was after I just finished spraying 0.5lbs/k N (from urea) on the non-reno grass, and was about to set up the sprinkler to water in.
> 
> I scrambled to fill the bathtub, some kitchen pots and other high priority wife requests, and then in the last 15 minutes I ran around the yard with the hand sprayer to give the grass a quick wash off. I should be ok right?
> 
> 
> 
> You should be fine. Did they say how long the water would be off for?
Click to expand...

4 hours. Just came back on and I have the sprinkler going, taking a risk with fungus I know.


----------



## Stuofsci02

I think you'll be fine.. With the cold weather that we have coming over the next weeks, I am not concerned for fungus anymore.


----------



## g-man

What was you carrier rate?


----------



## Babameca

@Stuofsci02 Fungus never settles. Some like cozy warm, some cool, some even cold. All love it wet.
If you check the greencast.ca disease model for your area (or any area) One fungus pressure will go down, while another one will awake.


----------



## davegravy

g-man said:


> What was you carrier rate?


0.8gal/M.

(Wasn't too concerned about it because I was going to water in)


----------



## g-man

At that carrier, I think you are fine not to water it in immediately. If you had an overpass error, then that could be a problem.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Babameca said:


> @Stuofsci02 Fungus never settles. Some like cozy warm, some cool, some even cold. All love it wet.
> If you check the greencast.ca disease model for your area (or any area) One fungus pressure will go down, while another one will awake.


Yeah, but risk is quite low right now. Even on the greencast model everything is low risk with exception of Anthracnose which has "some risk".. It rains at night and dews are heavy now, so in reference to @davegravy concern about rinsing his app of N and not being able to let the grass dry, I would not loose sleep... It is going to be wet most nights now anyhow...


----------



## davegravy

Thanks all for the reassurance!


----------



## davegravy

Ok, possible fungus alert?

After finishing up my first spoon feeding (0.2lbs N/k) spray on the reno I noticed a couple areas where the little KBG is yellowish (or at least lighter green).

Pics:











Suspend spoon feeding and put down some fungicide? I have propi, axozy, and chlorothalonil available. Also I'm still doing 4x a day watering, suppose I could drop down to 2x/day by now?

The PRG is growing like gangbusters, I've been mowing daily at 1.5" and I'm borderline breaking the 1/3 rule on each mow. Big picture looks good, filling in nicely:


----------



## Stuofsci02

I would reduce the watering so that the grass drys in between. Twice per day IMO.


----------



## synergy0852

This looks strikingly similar to what I am seeing in my reno! No clue what it is, just going to monitor it and if it gets worse I'll be spraying azoxy.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

@davegravy I would spray a fungicide. Also reduce watering a bit. Don't let it dry for too long though. The KBG is still young.


----------



## davegravy

SNOWBOB11 said:


> @davegravy I would spray a fungicide. Also reduce watering a bit. Don't let it dry for too long though. The KBG is still young.


Thanks, I have no fungicide experience though. Which is the best choice for this situation? I assume I should do a curative rate at this point.


----------



## g-man

Azoxy


----------



## SNOWBOB11

davegravy said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy I would spray a fungicide. Also reduce watering a bit. Don't let it dry for too long though. The KBG is still young.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I have no fungicide experience though. Which is the best choice for this situation? I assume I should do a curative rate at this point.
Click to expand...

As g-man says azoxy. Yes curative rate.


----------



## davegravy

The yellowing was definitely more pronounced today.

I watered this zone at 12:15 and 4:15 today and the area with the yellowing was still very wet on the grass blades at 6:30pm. Other areas were dry. I'm going to shift the watering for this zone to earlier as it gets shade a bit before other areas in the evening. There's no drainage issues in this area so I don't know how else to explain the leaves being so damp. It was also very windy today so I'm a bit surprised.

Azoxy 2SC down at 0.77 fl oz / 2.3gal h2o /M. Will water in at noon tomorrow. Fingers crossed.


----------



## davegravy

... And just as I finished posting that it started raining. Forecast said 30%... 
:crying:

Did I mention I also just finished spreading FAS + Anuew on the front yard? 
:crying:

I threw a tarp over the worst yellowing area on the reno.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy soaked looking blades=Pythium. Look at my journal, I had exact same issue.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy soaked looking blades=Pythium. Look at my journal, I had exact same issue.


Soaked looking? There were actual beads of water on the leaf blades, and running my hand over them they felt wet. I watched your video a while ago and I don't remember beads of water, let me know if I'm remembering incorrectly.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy page 4 of my journal. 6 weeks after seed down.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy page 4 of my journal. 6 weeks after seed down.


Thanks, I read to page 6, looks like it happened much later in the season for you and you ended up not really taking action against it?


----------



## davegravy

davegravy said:


> ... And just as I finished posting that it started raining. Forecast said 30%...
> :crying:
> 
> Did I mention I also just finished spreading FAS + Anuew on the front yard?
> :crying:
> 
> I threw a tarp over the worst yellowing area on the reno.


The amount of rain that fell right after I applied azoxy was a bit over 1/16". That's still enough, I expect, to completely prevent the azoxy from having a foliar / contact benefit.

1/16" is equivalent to 40 gallons of carrier H2O over 1000sqft, that's 10x to 20x the carrier recommended on the azoxy label.

Given that this happened, should I spray another fungicide or wait a bit and see?


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy yes it was later. I think i did azoxy. It did not recover. What was dead was gone. But just in a few weeks it filled in. Hold on another azoxy app for now.


----------



## mensreaj23

@davegravy Great reno so far! I started around the same time as you and my lawn is looking similar with all the PRG coming up. I haven't cut it yet because when I stepped on it in a few areas all the grass got flattened and stayed down for the next couples of days. Did that happen to you too? If so, and if that is normal, then I'll mow ASAP.


----------



## davegravy

mensreaj23 said:


> @davegravy Great reno so far! I started around the same time as you and my lawn is looking similar with all the PRG coming up. I haven't cut it yet because when I stepped on it in a few areas all the grass got flattened and stayed down for the next couples of days. Did that happen to you too? If so, and if that is normal, then I'll mow ASAP.


Thanks!

It stays flattened for about a day for me. I would imagine the longer it is the longer it will take to stand itself back upright. You also don't want it super long as the PRG can shade out the kbg.

What length is yours at now approximately?


----------



## mensreaj23

oh ok ... damnit, I thought I was helping it! It is now 2" - 2.5".

Rained last night and going to be cloudy here the rest of the day so I don't think it is going to dry our even for me to cut. Looking at the weather forecast, lots of rain coming.

thanks


----------



## BBLOCK

Where's the update pics at. are you striping it w the manual reel mower or what?! &#128578;


----------



## davegravy

mensreaj23 said:


> oh ok ... damnit, I thought I was helping it! It is now 2" - 2.5".
> 
> Rained last night and going to be cloudy here the rest of the day so I don't think it is going to dry our even for me to cut. Looking at the weather forecast, lots of rain coming.
> 
> thanks


That's not too bad. I cut mine to 1.5" and have been mowing daily with the push mower without any ill effects.


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> Where's the update pics at. are you striping it w the manual reel mower or what?! 🙂


Haha I'll grab a new pic later today.

Been using the manual reel, yes, but I don't find it really stripes (except the wheel marks which don't count ). Jonesing for a greens mower.


----------



## davegravy




----------



## damanpal

Nice!!
Mine is nowhere close as it is KBG only and taking it's sweet time.


----------



## Sinclair

damanpal said:


> Nice!!
> Mine is nowhere close as it is KBG only and taking it's sweet time.


My neighbour who put down a bag of seed from Home Depot last weekend has taller grass than I do after a month.


----------



## BBLOCK

Sinclair said:


> damanpal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice!!
> Mine is nowhere close as it is KBG only and taking it's sweet time.
> 
> 
> 
> My neighbour who put down a bag of seed from Home Depot last weekend has taller grass than I do after a month.
Click to expand...

haha same, guy across the street super happy w his Costco seed doesn't even list seed types! I just keep saying. guess we'll see who's doing better come spring lol


----------



## BBLOCK

davegravy said:


>


wow look at that colour coming in. looks good man!


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


>


Looks Awesome... Will look even better once you are mowing with a powered reel that stripes....


----------



## davegravy

Thanks all!

Back to the fungus (I think?).



It's gotten very slightly more yellow over the course of a week since azoxy. I've barely watered in that time and I haven't watered at all the last few days as we had some brief light downpours and overcast cool weather. The soil has remained wet and I've had the leaf blower out a few times to make sure the leaves stay dry. It's only the lazy KBG variety that germinated last which is very young and growing low and laterally that's getting this.

I'm not seeing a lot of growth in the yellowed plants but it's hard to say if it's standard sprout and pout or stunting from whatever its ailment is.

Suggestions? Keep waiting and watching?


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Here is a pic that may calm you down:
It happened after my first urea app (granular) and it lasted for a while. It is the lazy KBG that is too young IMO and/or granular not going everywhere. I had a similar experience with my reno No1 and it vanished 4-5 days later. In my case it took weeks.


----------



## Babameca

On a different page, it looks aswesome! I am little surprised by the amount of weeds I see... Not something to worry about this year, just as reference.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> On a different page, it looks aswesome! I am little surprised by the amount of weeds I see... Not something to worry about this year, just as reference.


Thanks, there is a lot of weeds even though I used tenacity at seed down. Most of them are a woody stemmed weed like most tree saplings. I used my smartphone plant ID app and it says Mulberry. I suspect just from regular mowing they will die, and if not I'll spray them in the spring.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Here is a pic that may calm you down:
> It happened after my first urea app (granular) and it lasted for a while. It is the lazy KBG that is too young IMO and/or granular not going everywhere. I had a similar experience with my reno No1 and it vanished 4-5 days later. In my case it took weeks.


This gives me hope. Thanks!


----------



## Stuofsci02

I wouldn't be worried. This reno was a huge success IMO and you can sit back now and watch it do it's thing. Well done! Excellent prep!


----------



## damanpal

I am seeing it spreading too. A few more patches popped up. Some say it is the lack of nutrients the grass is getting before of too much water in the soil. Wait and watch I guess.


----------



## Harts

I'm with Stu. This is a massive success. When you look back at your most recent pics in mid Oct, you'll realize how much it has progressed. Congrats. The hardest part is over.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

davegravy said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> On a different page, it looks aswesome! I am little surprised by the amount of weeds I see... Not something to worry about this year, just as reference.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, there is a lot of weeds even though I used tenacity at seed down. Most of them are a woody stemmed weed like most tree saplings. I used my smartphone plant ID app and it says Mulberry. I suspect just from regular mowing they will die, and if not I'll spray them in the spring.
Click to expand...

Why wait until spring to deal with the weeds? Do a follow up tenacity app 30 days post germination which you should be coming up on if I'm not mistaken?

Do you have propiconazole?


----------



## davegravy

SNOWBOB11 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> On a different page, it looks aswesome! I am little surprised by the amount of weeds I see... Not something to worry about this year, just as reference.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, there is a lot of weeds even though I used tenacity at seed down. Most of them are a woody stemmed weed like most tree saplings. I used my smartphone plant ID app and it says Mulberry. I suspect just from regular mowing they will die, and if not I'll spray them in the spring.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why wait until spring to deal with the weeds? Do a follow up tenacity app 30 days post germination which you should be coming up on if I'm not mistaken?
> 
> Do you have propiconazole?
Click to expand...

Yeah I've got a tenacity app planned for tomorrow and after discussing a bunch in @g-man's reno thread (IIRC) the consensus seems to be it's a pre-emergent application not foliar post-emergent. I had wondered aloud about using NIS for post emergent foliar app and then washing it into the soil after a few hours for pre-emergent control but the idea didn't get any traction.

Yes I have propi. Think I should drop some?


----------



## SNOWBOB11

I'm going to do a follow up tenacity app on my neighbors renovation soon and will add in NIS. It's a small lawn but there is higher weed pressure than I would like to see.

I am also going to do a app of propi as I'm seeing similar yellowing as you are. I already did azoxy last week but I'd like to be safe and make sure I catch anything before it spreads.


----------



## Baretta

Looks great! Had the same problem with the yellowing. Had die off. I easied off on the watering. Gave a low dose of urea and it looks to have improved. Had to throw down more seed.


----------



## davegravy

Tenacity at 4oz/acre (no NIS) and humic acid down on the reno just as the sun was setting. Left it on the leaf for a bit of post emergent control (hopefully). Will water it in early tomorrow morning.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

I haven't been reading along in this journal regularly, but popped in today and just had to comment on a few things.

First off, this is an awesome renovation -- keep up the great work!



davegravy said:


>


I know a lot of folks on this forum are all about the "reel low" grass and stripes, but I absolutely love the look of uniform color. I think the above looks awesome! I'll take the above in preference to stripes any day! Well done!



Babameca said:


> @davegravy Here is a pic that may calm you down:
> It happened after my first urea app (granular) and it lasted for a while. It is the lazy KBG that is too young IMO and/or granular not going everywhere. I had a similar experience with my reno No1 and it vanished 4-5 days later. In my case it took weeks.


As an FYI, I had the exact same look as the above in the 2018 front lawn renovation (Bewitched & Prosperity KBG). The splotchiness persisted for many weeks, too. I think the issue was actually that the yellowing grass is starving for nutrients. I had been "spoon feeding" quick-release urea as fertilizer (46-0-0) at a low rate and I think the problem was simply that the granules were too widely spread to give uniform coverage. I was very wary of overfertilizing, as in my 2015 Bewitched KBG renovation I overfertilized in the spring and even though the grass did great in May and June, it was wonderfully long and lush going into late July and when the humidity arrived on all that lush, tender grass, disease spread like wildfire and I wasn't sufficiently experienced with disease diagnosis and response. I nearly lost it all due to disease. It wasn't until about a year later that it got back to where it was before the outbreak.

In any case, I have a hypothesis (unverified and really still just speculation) that the patchy look is due to having some places that receive sufficient fertilizer and look good due to having a random grouping of granules together. Other places only have a granule or two, which isn't enough for the grass, so it looks sickly, yellow, and starved.

@Babameca, I'm curious if when your grass recovered from the patchy look, had you done anything recently beforehand that you think was responsible for the improvement?

I'm thinking that I need to be a little more generous with the fertilizer this time around and will use a finer prill fertilizer. I've also wondered if spraying the urea (instead of granules) would help with uniformity?


----------



## Sinclair

@ken-n-nancy you're absolutely right that the splotches are due to the urea prills being large and very few and far between at spoon feeding rates.

Spraying the urea or simply increasing the rate and/or frequency is the way to mitigate.

I've gone well beyond the recommended rate and application frequency. No harm done.


----------



## davegravy

ken-n-nancy said:


> I haven't been reading along in this journal regularly, but popped in today and just had to comment on a few things.
> 
> First off, this is an awesome renovation -- keep up the great work!
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know a lot of folks on this forum are all about the "reel low" grass and stripes, but I absolutely love the look of uniform color. I think the above looks awesome! I'll take the above in preference to stripes any day! Well done!
> 
> 
> 
> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy Here is a pic that may calm you down:
> It happened after my first urea app (granular) and it lasted for a while. It is the lazy KBG that is too young IMO and/or granular not going everywhere. I had a similar experience with my reno No1 and it vanished 4-5 days later. In my case it took weeks.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As an FYI, I had the exact same look as the above in the 2018 front lawn renovation (Bewitched & Prosperity KBG). The splotchiness persisted for many weeks, too. I think the issue was actually that the yellowing grass is starving for nutrients. I had been "spoon feeding" quick-release urea as fertilizer (46-0-0) at a low rate and I think the problem was simply that the granules were too widely spread to give uniform coverage. I was very wary of overfertilizing, as in my 2015 Bewitched KBG renovation I overfertilized in the spring and even though the grass did great in May and June, it was wonderfully long and lush going into late July and when the humidity arrived on all that lush, tender grass, disease spread like wildfire and I wasn't sufficiently experienced with disease diagnose and response. I nearly lost it all due to disease. It wasn't until about a year later that it got back to where it was before the outbreak.
> 
> In any case, I have a hypothesis (unverified and really still just speculation) that the patchy look is due to having some places that receive sufficient fertilizer and look good due to having a random grouping of granules together. Other places only have a granule or two, which isn't enough for the grass, so it looks sickly, yellow, and starved.
> 
> @Babameca, I'm curious if when your grass recovered from the patchy look, had you done anything recently beforehand that you think was responsible for the improvement?
> 
> I'm thinking that I need to be a little more generous with the fertilizer this time around and will use a finer prill fertilizer. I've also wondered if spraying the urea (instead of granules) would help with uniformity?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the compliments! I do really like the uniform look too. It's certainly cheaper than buying and maintaining a greens mower 😉. There's something appealing about the exoticness of stripes (they're exotic outside of TLF that is).

As for the yellowing I have sprayed all my fast release N (only one spoon feeding on the reno to date). Now, the area which is yellow is right on the edge of the reno so its possible I didn't quite complete a spray strip fully to the edge. So your theory might hold up. Interesting that none of the PRG is yellowing, just the youngest KBG. Will see if the situation changes after my next spoon feeding in a few days.


----------



## Babameca

@ken-n-nancy Since that event, I only spray Urea. I bought 100% UMAXX(46-0-0 soluble not granules) and mix it with the straight one if I want to get on the high app rates and still have an even feed. I will only spread SCU and SPCU (AS aside) urea at higher rates, knowing coverage will be even and is my pre summer only heavy app. I hit a 20-0-12 in early June that is 75% coated Urea.


----------



## damanpal

In my case, these yellow/brownish patches started even before the first urea application. It is still getting worse. I just hope it doesn't kills a lot of grass.


----------



## davegravy

Squirrel / raccoon activity is maddening :evil:


----------



## BBLOCK

davegravy said:


> Squirrel / raccoon activity is maddening :evil:


im feeling your pain. constant squirrel activity!

neighbours on the back street couple houses down i just found out, that they foster orphan squirrels. I mean who feeds and brings into their home tree rats! it's annoying to have constant holes all over your property to squirrels burying peanuts


----------



## davegravy

Chapin 24V battery died. They're sending me a new one but they're on backorder 4 weeks :/

Thought to myself I'll order a 2nd battery in the meantime just to have a backup in the future. Sold out everywhere.

Looks like my N blitz will be granular now...

No more humic, PGR, fungicides, spoon feeding :crying:

*UPDATE* McMaster-Carr website claims to have stock. I placed an order and it says delivery Friday! Fingers crossed. I love that place.


----------



## davegravy

If my tank mix of humic, urea and water is sitting in a 5gal bucket until my battery shows up, will it still be good to use?


----------



## davegravy

Apparently I have some more work to do on my spray technique. Bleaching from the 2nd app of tenacity (4oz/acre rate) but there's bad striping.



Did my 2nd spoon feeding today.


----------



## davegravy

Double mow


----------



## synergy0852

This doesn't look like a fresh reno at all @davegravy. Excellent work!


----------



## BBLOCK

looks great Dave!


----------



## Babameca

Juicy! Wait for it to mature. It will amaze you every week, over and over again for some time now.


----------



## Kaba

Looks great man!!!!


----------



## Stuofsci02

It's looking very good. It is going to be awesome mid Oct as it darkens.


----------



## davegravy

Thanks everyone!



Stuofsci02 said:


> It's looking very good. It is going to be awesome mid Oct as it darkens.


I was just wondering when to expect darkening. Also should I hold off on my FAS until next year? What about PGR?


----------



## Kaba

I would not PGR it. Likely won't really need FAS with all the N you'll be giving it


----------



## davegravy

Kaba said:


> I would not PGR it. Likely won't really need FAS with all the N you'll be giving it


Would be nice to mow a bit less frequently, but the Anuew label doesn't say anything about applying to new grass so I'll probably play it safe.

As for N, the reno guide I'm following has a few spoon feedings but it's not a ton compared to the N blitz.


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Thanks everyone!
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's looking very good. It is going to be awesome mid Oct as it darkens.
> 
> 
> 
> I was just wondering when to expect darkening. Also should I hold off on my FAS until next year? What about PGR?
Click to expand...

I FASed and PGRed my small reno last year at 6 weeks. No issues and it came in amazing. I already PGRed my front Rye grass overseed when it was 3 weeks old.


----------



## Zcape35

:thumbup: It's looking awesome and filling in great.


----------



## Kaba

My 2 cents is I wouldn't mess with PGR until established you're really only talking about a few less mows over the next 30 days, and if there are some weaker areas PGR could really slow them down a ton (similar to if you have diseased areas and have PGR down).

I went into the blitz after my overseed last year and it stayed green til May, it was glorious.


----------



## davegravy

Kaba said:


> My 2 cents is I wouldn't mess with PGR until established you're really only talking about a few less mows over the next 30 days, and if there are some weaker areas PGR could really slow them down a ton (similar to if you have diseased areas and have PGR down).
> 
> I went into the blitz after my overseed last year and it stayed green til May, it was glorious.


So your vote is for blitz and no pgr... Ie me mowing a lot 😛. Need me a powered reel...


----------



## Kaba

Thank me later &#129315;


----------



## davegravy

Fresh mow, starting to really shine. Tenacity bleaching almost gone.


----------



## Babameca

Beautiful!! Push N as much as you can. That's a lot of mowing, but...


----------



## Harts

Babameca said:


> Beautiful!! Push N as much as you can. That's a lot of mowing, but...


+ 1 Lawn looks amazing. Well done Dave.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

I might have missed it but I was curious if you did add a surfactant when you sprayed tenacity? I know you weren't decided which way to go.


----------



## davegravy

SNOWBOB11 said:


> I might have missed it but I was curious if you did add a surfactant when you sprayed tenacity? I know you weren't decided which way to go.


I kind of split the difference between foliar and soil application. I didn't use NIS but I did leave it on the leaf overnight for 6-8 hours before watering in early morning. There's no mention on the tenacity label regarding how soon you have to water in.

I can't claim it killed any existing broadleafs but it certainly knocked them back. They're wilted below the grass HOC and barely growing. Not visible from an angle.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> Beautiful!! Push N as much as you can. That's a lot of mowing, but...


Don't know how you do it below 1". I'm at 1.5" and mowing every 2 days is borderline breaking 1/3 rule. I guess next year when I start PGR it'll be a bit easier.

I'm not really complaining, I love mowing 😛


----------



## Sinclair

davegravy said:


> Don't know how you do it below 1". I'm at 1.5" and mowing every 2 days is borderline breaking 1/3 rule.


Mow every day, duh! :lol:


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy I can't tell you...I started PGR in May. Did not stop since. I mow every 3 or 4 days and I definitely stay below 1/3... today was a little exception, but as I mentioned in my journal, I think the GDD model starts being off at low temps (below 15).


----------



## Kaba

I mow every day now, or every 3rd day when I'm on PGR. You kinda start to look forward to it 

Your lawn came in amazingly!!!


----------



## BBLOCK

lets see the newest pic, i wanna see the colour

are you still running the hose up the middle of the yard w the sprinklers in the middle?


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> lets see the newest pic, i wanna see the colour
> 
> are you still running the hose up the middle of the yard w the sprinklers in the middle?


Out with a cold the last week so fell behind on yardwork. Glad to be back at it.







The non-reno grass is still a bit darker, so we have further to go.


----------



## davegravy

I think I'm going to not use PGR next year at least on the front yard where it's more shady. Last year when I did the FNB I had great fill in from the summer damage. This year with FNB and PGR - nothing. It's green but getting zero growth (vertical or lateral) except in sunny sections.

I had decided to try it based on others who claimed it helped with shade performance.


----------



## BBLOCK

really filling out!

what's w the stakes in the ground?


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> really filling out!
> 
> what's w the stakes in the ground?


Oh I'm trying these out to line up my spray passes. I had been using the mower lines but I was getting banding and I think these work better.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy The way it goes, you will easily kick my a//s, next fall. Looks much fuller than mine back then. I may suggest you to re-consider PGR for shade. It may actually help sustain grass that struggles in the shade. I experience exactly that in my back yard.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy The way it goes, you will easily kick my a//s, next fall. Looks much fuller than mine back then. I may suggest you to re-consider PGR for shade. It may actually help sustain grass that struggles in the shade. I experience exactly that in my back yard.


I may be ahead in the reno because of a bit higher PRG % (25 instead of 20).

You use Tnex whereas I use Anuew? I wonder if that's why we are having a different experience with shade performance. I'm also using it on nomix whereas you are KBG mostly.

I'm going to bring some plugs from my reno and plant in the shade as a test to see how they grow.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy My back yard is NOmix oversseded with what I put upfront. It gets the same treatment as the rest of the yard (lots of bio stimulants)


----------



## davegravy

Construction site 2 doors down took an interesting twist... Not sure what this backyard shed is destined to become.

Starting to think about putting in a cedar hedge next year.



Reno is doing well, still growing quickly.


----------



## BBLOCK

grow room?

grass is looking mint


----------



## BBLOCK

any luck with finding a reel mower?


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> any luck with finding a reel mower?


None, but I've been checking the classifieds frequently.

I believe there's a company here that sells refurbs but they're a good bit more $ and I haven't worked the boss up to going for that yet.


----------



## BBLOCK

davegravy said:


> BBLOCK said:
> 
> 
> 
> any luck with finding a reel mower?
> 
> 
> 
> None, but I've been checking the classifieds frequently.
> 
> I believe there's a company here that sells refurbs but they're a good bit more $ and I haven't worked the boss up to going for that yet.
Click to expand...

Turf care?

They have a Toro for 4k...

yeah i just kept checking and one day someone had posted one two hours ago. I msg'd right away. went and got it next morning. it's way more satisfying than rotary mowing that's for sure. you'll get one


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBLOCK said:
> 
> 
> 
> any luck with finding a reel mower?
> 
> 
> 
> None, but I've been checking the classifieds frequently.
> 
> I believe there's a company here that sells refurbs but they're a good bit more $ and I haven't worked the boss up to going for that yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Turf care?
> 
> They have a Toro for 4k...
> 
> yeah i just kept checking and one day someone had posted one two hours ago. I msg'd right away. went and got it next morning. it's way more satisfying than rotary mowing that's for sure. you'll get one
Click to expand...

Congrats! Yeah I keep hearing how great it is, can't wait to join the club 

Yes, Turf Care was what I was referring to


----------



## davegravy

Putting down my last 0.5lb/M of N from AS today. Still getting some decent top growth but slowing down for sure.

In the front yard there's a 2 foot area that has this white film going on :



I've been backpack spraying my AS then watering in right after during the FNB. I wonder if my sprinkler missed this area and it's burn from sitting on the leaf?


----------



## Babameca

It is not a burn, just AS dry down. Urea will do the same.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> It is not a burn, just AS dry down. Urea will do the same.


Oh interesting. Never saw this before I switched from urea to AS.


----------



## Babameca

Any crystal structured water soluble substance will turn back to its crystalline state once water is gone.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

@davegravy Looks like powdery mildew.


----------



## Sinclair

PM. Ugly and harmless.

Might be time to slow down on N and water.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> Any crystal structured water soluble substance will turn back to its crystalline state once water is gone.


Right. So then it is an indication this area didn't get watered in as well, otherwise the product would be washed off the leaf into the soil...


----------



## Babameca

davegravy said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any crystal structured water soluble substance will turn back to its crystalline state once water is gone.
> 
> 
> 
> Right. So then it is an indication this area didn't get watered in as well, otherwise the product would be washed off the leaf into the soil...
Click to expand...

Correct!
As the others suggest, could be PM only if this is definitely an area with very little sun exposure.


----------



## Sinclair

If it was a salt residue from evaporated AMS, you wouldn't see perfectly clean blades next to entirely white blades.

It's appears as though some of his cultivars are more PM resistant than others.

I've had PM in full sunlight areas when I get over-zealous with water and nitrogen this time of year.


----------



## g-man

Get a hose/bucket of water. Apply it to the area. If after 30min it is still white, then it is not a crystal substance. It looks like PM to me.


----------



## davegravy

g-man said:


> Get a hose/bucket of water. Apply it to the area. If after 30min it is still white, then it is not a crystal substance. It looks like PM to me.


Aha... unlike the white stuff on my boots, the stuff on the turf does not seem to be soluble. Only way to get it off was to wipe grass blades aggressively with my finger.

This is definitely a shade area. I've never seen PM on my lawn before but I've also never gone quite this late with nitrogen. Will call it a wrap now, thank you!


----------



## g-man

Maybe it was there before but you never noticed. I think an organic approach is to spray milk on it.


----------



## davegravy

Reno is still needing a cut every 3 days. Rest of the lawn is slowed down.


----------



## Stuofsci02

That looks tight... still on the lookout for a greensmower?


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## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> That looks tight... still on the lookout for a greensmower?


Thanks. I am, yeah - haven't seen anything this fall except a unit in Ottawa which is a bit further than I want to travel.


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## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That looks tight... still on the lookout for a greensmower?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I am, yeah - haven't seen anything this fall except a unit in Ottawa which is a bit further than I want to travel.
Click to expand...

Swardman? :thumbup:


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## BBLOCK

was the one in ottawa a JD? prob from the same guy i got mine from, he had two.


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## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> was the one in ottawa a JD? prob from the same guy i got mine from, he had two.


No it was a Toro Flex 21


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## davegravy

Wife wants to buy an exercise bike. Think she'd mind riding one of these?


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## Babameca

@davegravy :lol:


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## davegravy

Anyone following, future updates will be posted in  My 2021 Lawn Log (with flex21!)


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