# Milorganite/ July 4th/ and Summer Heat



## grasshead

Just curious what everyone's opinion is on using Milorganite in the heat of the summer.They recommend an application for Cool-Season Grasses on Memorial day/July 4th/Labor day/ and Thanksgiving.I always thought it was recommended not to add nitrogen in the hot part of the summer when grass does not want to grow.Just curious...are you putting it on July 4th or not?


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## Virginiagal

No. I'm not using it at Thanksgiving either when the microbes are not active. Their application date instructions make no sense for cool season grass.


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## GrassDaddy

I still apply it. I'm not doing it weekly but it's slow release so it's all good. KBG loves the N ;-)


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## kolbasz

GrassDaddy said:


> I still apply it. I'm not doing it weekly but it's slow release so it's all good. KBG loves the N ;-)


See! this is the stuff that makes it sooooo difficult and confusing. You have the science and then the other.

Currently I am in the other. But maybe just partly. While hot, it has not been crazy. Early July is the start, I put 72# on 6k grass June 24 ( I went a week early). My synthetic schedule has me at about 2 week for an app of 25-0-6. Which in reality takes me to the end of August.

So, are we really feeding the summer heat? I feel the heat comes now and into August, so in reality, we are not technically feeding in the heat, just before it.

Then September hits and boom, hit the milorganite or do we? Gosh, I just don't know any more...

We need a sticky dedicated to app schedules specific to the grass and location to see a comparison of sorts. They will be all over the board, but still, it would be a better way to gauge what one is doing compared to others.

Learn what to add or cut out perhaps?


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## g-man

Look at GrassDaddy location. RI. That's a very different climate than yours in Ohio.

There is no schedule with grass. The lawn cant tell the time or day. You need to see and adjust base on your location/weather that year. The guideline is to avoid pushing grow when the temperature are high (above ~85F). Pushing grow means adding fertilizer. Avoid more than 1lb of N per 1ksqft per rolling month.

You threw Milo in June 24 and it will last around a month in your soil, so it will feed thru July. Why do you feel the need to add more? What do you think you will gain or miss out from applying more fertilizer?

In August, the temperature starts to drop. Once the temps are below 80F, then start feeding at 1lb of N/ksqft/month. You continue doing this until your average first frost date (~25Oct for me) and then stop adding more fertilizer. ~4 weeks later, the grass will stop growing (you dont see more grass clippings) and then you apply one last 1lb/ksqft of a fast acting nitrogen for the year (winterizer). There are other models for winterizing, but this is the one I use.


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## Virginiagal

Grasses have somewhat different fertilizer appetites (KBG takes more than tall fescue, fine fescue needs even less). Climate makes a difference. Someone in Maine could probably fertilize all summer long but those of us in the transition zone shouldn't. Most states put out publications on fertilizing. I looked for Ohio and didn't see anything but Indiana is close by. Here are Purdue's publications (there is one on fertilizing):
https://turf.purdue.edu/homeowner.html
Some states have fertilizer laws about when fertilizer can be applied (and how much) and when it can't.


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## kolbasz

g-man said:


> Look at GrassDaddy location. RI. That's a very different climate than yours in Ohio.
> 
> There is no schedule with grass. The lawn cant tell the time or day. You need to see and adjust base on your location/weather that year. The guideline is to avoid pushing grow when the temperature are high (above ~85F). Pushing grow means adding fertilizer. Avoid more than 1lb of N per 1ksqft per rolling month.
> 
> You threw Milo in June 24 and it will last around a month in your soil, so it will feed thru July. Why do you feel the need to add more? What do you think you will gain or miss out from applying more fertilizer?
> 
> In August, the temperature starts to drop. Once the temps are below 80F, then start feeding at 1lb of N/ksqft/month. You continue doing this until your average first frost date (~25Oct for me) and then stop adding more fertilizer. ~4 weeks later, the grass will stop growing (you dont see more grass clippings) and then you apply one last 1lb/ksqft of a fast acting nitrogen for the year (winterizer). There are other models for winterizing, but this is the one I use.


you have a valid point with this. Therefore, I will apply only to the backyard, where I did not apply anything since May. Or, is it best to let it run its course and wait for September?


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## j4c11

Milorganite is 40% water soluble N, so it's probably best to avoid using it in the summer on cool season grasses. Unless you're up north where summers are cool(er).


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## kolbasz

Virginiagal said:


> Grasses have somewhat different fertilizer appetites (KBG takes more than tall fescue, fine fescue needs even less). Climate makes a difference. Someone in Maine could probably fertilize all summer long but those of us in the transition zone shouldn't. Most states put out publications on fertilizing. I looked for Ohio and didn't see anything but Indiana is close by. Here are Purdue's publications (there is one on fertilizing):
> https://turf.purdue.edu/homeowner.html
> Some states have fertilizer laws about when fertilizer can be applied (and how much) and when it can't.


I just took a look at this breifly and it is certainly not what I have been doing. It is very not regimented, call it the 4 step plan as I have been raised on. Or the every 6-8 week plan.

Instead, what this tells me is to do my pre-emergent, apply some N in the spring (call this may/june) and then wait till the end of august when you get crazy with the N.

My only question with all this is what is one to expect from their lawn in the summer heat? so far I have managed to stay green, but perhaps this is simply because I have kept it watered? Have I been tricking myself to think this was the result of good fertilizing techniques?


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## kolbasz

j4c11 said:


> Milorganite is 40% water soluble N, so it's probably best to avoid using it in the summer on cool season grasses. Unless you're up north where summers are cool(er).


haha, what do we consider the north?


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## g-man

The north - The largest region of the Seven Kingdoms, the dominion of House Stark extends from the border of the New Gift, which is controlled by the Night's Watch, to the southern edge of the Neck far to the south.

from http://awoiaf.westeros.org


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## Budstl

Lmao g-man.


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## kolbasz

g-man said:


> The north - The largest region of the Seven Kingdoms, the dominion of House Stark extends from the border of the New Gift, which is controlled by the Night's Watch, to the southern edge of the Neck far to the south.
> 
> from http://awoiaf.westeros.org


Oh yeah, there. Guess I don't fall into that area


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## Virginiagal

Cool season grass is a C3 plant and does not do photosynthesis efficiently in hot weather. Soil temperature for maximum root growth is 55-65 degrees F. Àir temperature for maximum crown growth is 60-77 degrees. At 90 degrees shoot growth stops. At 77 degrees (soil temperature) root growth stops. At 80 degrees (soil temperature)and above, roots die back. Cool season grass can lose 75% of its roots over the summer as a normal thing. Nitrogen in the summer pushes growth toward the shoots at the expense of the roots, which are having a hard time already.


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## kolbasz

Virginiagal said:


> Cool season grass is a C3 plant and does not do photosynthesis efficiently in hot weather. Soil temperature for maximum root growth is 55-65 degrees F. Àir temperature for maximum crown growth is 60-77 degrees. At 90 degrees shoot growth stops. At 77 degrees (soil temperature) root growth stops. At 80 degrees (soil temperature)and above, roots die back. Cool season grass can lose 75% of its roots over the summer as a normal thing. Nitrogen in the summer pushes growth toward the shoots at the expense of the roots, which are having a hard time already.


This makes good sense, when it is 80+ outside, not much is going on and fertilizer is wasted when it is promoting growth that will only stress the plant. Instead, good watering will keep a healthy lawn green in the heat?

One question regarding the roots and water. If the roots are automatically getting shorter, why do we say water long and deep in the summer? Does this promote them to get deeper while getting shorter?


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## GrassDaddy

You should be doing long and deep before the summer to "train" the roots. Then in the hot summer they should already be deep. The problem is if you water frequently and shallow, the roots have no need to go deeper so they will be shallow to begin with.

I've never heard of them losing 75% of their roots - do you have any links for that? (I'm not questioning you but rather like to read more about this stuff)


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## ales_gantar

Any idea how long it takes for Milorganite and Milirganite-like fertilizers to start working?


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## kolbasz

GrassDaddy said:


> You should be doing long and deep before the summer to "train" the roots. Then in the hot summer they should already be deep. The problem is if you water frequently and shallow, the roots have no need to go deeper so they will be shallow to begin with.
> 
> I've never heard of them losing 75% of their roots - do you have any links for that? (I'm not questioning you but rather like to read more about this stuff)


Ah, so the long and deep starts in the spring as opposed to when it gets hot...I just fired my system up in June as we had a week in the 90's...Guess I was doing it wrong.


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## Virginiagal

Two articles on roots:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/tgtre/article/2000oct1a.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjhxei-kffUAhVMPz4KHbmpCBIQFggdMAA&usg=AFQjCNE0QWZg_GAgqh_K7nBbwiWzBZcDZw

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/tgtre/article/2000nov9.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwj27aOIkvfUAhVGWz4KHbBnBrwQFggdMAA&usg=AFQjCNE4oNRvF7z3L8HsrQec1O8wO037eQ


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## Virginiagal

And one on managing summer heat stress. Drought preconditioning (deep and infrequent watering) help the roots prepare but once the heat is really on, lighter and more frequent watering is better.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/tgtre/article/2000jun1a.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiz4vX2kvfUAhXMaT4KHfMaAXUQFggvMAM&usg=AFQjCNH-Zykgg0QhTUMT1SQc9StfXvDC2w


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## Virginiagal

While we're talking about nitrogen in summer, I typed up some notes for Lawndad in a discussion on his fertilizer use. I'll copy them here:

Here is some information from my notes of Robert Carrow's Turfgrass Soil Fertility and Chemical Problems about nitrogen. When N is very high, there can be a decline in number of tillers and density, partly due to shading, inadequate mowing frequency, and limited carbohydrates. Above medium N there is a rapid loss of carbohydrate reserves in cool season grass with addition of more N. Warm season grass is less suspectible but there is a possibility of depletion of reserves if N is consistently applied at high rates. Drought resistance is highest at medium to low N. Tolerance to stress drops at high N. Grass is more susceptible to wilting as N increases. From low to medium N the tendency is for no further thatch. At high N thatch levels increase. When turf density is lost to weed competition, pests, or traffic, additional N is needed to improve density. Adequate water needed too. If N is too low, weeds may predominate. Higher N tends to enhance poa annua at the expense of other cool season grasses, especially when applied in the spring. Under high N there are thinner cell walls, more succulent tissue, low carbohydrate levels, and grass is more susceptible to pythium and brown patch. Low N results in slow growth, senescence of leaves, thin weak plants which are more susceptible to dollar spot, rust, red thread, and pink patch.


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## LIgrass

Virginiagal said:


> Cool season grass is a C3 plant and does not do photosynthesis efficiently in hot weather. Soil temperature for maximum root growth is 55-65 degrees F. Àir temperature for maximum crown growth is 60-77 degrees. At 90 degrees shoot growth stops. At 77 degrees (soil temperature) root growth stops. At 80 degrees (soil temperature)and above, roots die back. Cool season grass can lose 75% of its roots over the summer as a normal thing. Nitrogen in the summer pushes growth toward the shoots at the expense of the roots, which are having a hard time already.


Very interesting, and thanks for the follow up links. Good info!!

In one of the links it says higher HOC increases photosynthesis and food production. Is there a way to increase this if you're already at max height? How do golf courses do it?


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## kolbasz

what is hoc?


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## wardconnor

kolbasz said:


> what is hoc?


Height of cut


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## kolbasz

wardconnor said:


> kolbasz said:
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> what is hoc?
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> Height of cut
Click to expand...

thanks, that was the thought after i posted


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## Ware

kolbasz said:


> wardconnor said:
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> kolbasz said:
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> what is hoc?
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> Height of cut
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> Click to expand...
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> thanks, that was the thought after i posted
Click to expand...

There is an Acronyms/Glossary thread in the Articles & FAQs subforum. :thumbup:


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## kolbasz

Ware said:


> kolbasz said:
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> wardconnor said:
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> Height of cut
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> thanks, that was the thought after i posted
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> Click to expand...
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> There is an Acronyms/Glossary thread in the Articles & FAQs subforum. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Thanks ware, super helpful


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## grasshead

First of let me say....a lot of knowledge of some of the top posters from this site...Virginiagal can you be my neighbor so i can stop over and ask you a hundred questions a day LOL .... GrassDaddy i watch all your videos and nice to see your kids involved ...Wish i had all your energy  I do believe for me and my location that Milorganite might be best applied Memorial day and then Labor day.Not unusual here to see continuous low 90's and little rain for 10 to 14 days at a time.If i lived in RI i could see putting it down when ever you want.Every summer can be different at each location and the one here looks be pretty normal except for a lack of rain fall ...90 to 95 and needing rain. I like what g-man said...(There is no schedule with grass. The lawn cant tell the time or day. You need to see and adjust base on your location/weather that year)And i like j4c11 comment on (Milorganite is 40% water soluble N, so it's probably best to avoid using it in the summer on cool season grasses. Unless you're up north where summers are cool(er) ...... I need to add iron to my yard as it is low ...but sounds like i need to wait till Labor day...I guess for July and August... its mow high and stay off it. Thanks everyone


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## ales_gantar

I fertilized heavily and now I'm cooling it. At least I know what to do and not do next year.


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## Miller_Low_Life

I use Milorganite 4 to 5 times a year. I just wait for the lawn to tell me when it needs it, if that makes any sense? If it's still a beautful green color I let it be. I have a problem with brown patch so when I start to see it I like to have the added N instead of Fungicide. I'd rather just try and let it grow through. That's just me though. If you're irrigating properly during the whole year added a summer dose of Milo isn't going to hurt you. At least in zone 5. I also like to add some early to late November. I don't rake I just mulch my leaves so the added N helps add to the nutrients the soil is getting from the leaves.


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