# Water penetration of Verticut vs Non-Verticut.



## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Found this video while searching for more information about verticutting equipment. The demonstration shows the difference of water penetration with and without verticutting. I'd prefer if the water application was done at a slower consistent rate to mimic rainfall or irrigation.

With my lawn on a hill, I find this very interesting, please let me know what you think.

https://youtu.be/yPrTba-OG3c


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

It makes sense but I didn't care for the video too much as he was just throwing water on it and a lot was spilling off. I do think it's important to verticut/ aerate and add sand to help water and nutrients get down to the roots through the organic matter that builds up over time. It's even more important the lower you mow.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Red are you planning to buy a verticutter or convert your 220B?


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Both, wife purchased a cheap electric verticutter from Amazon for Valentine's Day. I'll try it out for my spring scalp, but I dought it'll work in thick healthy Turf. The last 220B will be a project for verticutting, much like what SimonR has done.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I think a converted reel mower is the ticket when it comes to verticutting. You get the benefits of 1) near infinite depth adjustment, and 2) being able to contour the lawn the same way a greens mower does with the drum and front roller.

Those are the biggest drawbacks/limitations I see with my Classen Turf Rake. It behaves more like a rotary push mower with regard to depth adjustments and rolling on four wheels.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Ware said:


> I think a converted reel mower is the ticket when it comes to verticutting. You get the benefits of 1) near infinite depth adjustment, and 2) being able to contour the lawn the same way a greens mower does with the drum and front roller.
> 
> Those are the biggest drawbacks/limitations I see with my Classen Turf Rake. It behaves more like a rotary push mower with regard to depth adjustments and rolling on four wheels.


+1 with Greens mowers (front and rear rollers) being best. Next I would say a TruCut with a front roller due to more HOC adjustments over something like a McLane


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Depending on how deep you are wanting to verticut, A converted greens mower may not have the power to cut through the thick rhizomes of Bermuda. Where a dedicated verticutter should have the power to get the job done.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> Depending on how deep you are wanting to verticut, A converted greens mower may not have the power to cut through the thick rhizomes of Bermuda. Where a dedicated verticutter should have the power to get the job done.


I was wondering about this being an issue. There are ways to get more hp out of a lawn mower engine though. Especially the Honda engines, have you ever been to a lawn mower race?


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> Depending on how deep you are wanting to verticut, A converted greens mower may not have the power to cut through the thick rhizomes of Bermuda. Where a dedicated verticutter should have the power to get the job done.


SimonR doesn't seem to have any issue. It would all depend on the mower; I could see someone having issues with a belt driven 3hp Mclane.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I feel like it would be hard to achieve that clean verticut appearance with one that rolls on wheels versus a drum/roller...


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## touchofgrass (Feb 17, 2017)

Redtenchu said:


> Found this video while searching for more information about verticutting equipment. The demonstration shows the difference of water penetration with and without verticutting. I'd prefer if the water application was done at a slower consistent rate to mimic rainfall or irrigation.
> 
> With my lawn on a hill, I find this very interesting, please let me know what you think.


I am with the other guys and don't really care for this video. I think he wasted a lot of the potential of the water by just dumping it on there. He should've either done a time-lapse video of a sprinkler system over them side by side maybe or poured the water slowly to avoid the spillage over the sides.

Obviously the verticut allowed more water to penetrate, but I felt like it could've allowed even more of a noticeable difference if done correctly.

Just my two cents


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## Wes (Feb 15, 2017)

All great thoughts above. I think the video still has value in that it shows another advantage of verticutting. Obviously, a more scientific approach would yield more accurate data - but it appears to prove the point.

His method of dumping the water over the top of the grass creates quite a bit of variables. It actually reminds me of Ian Malcolm explaining chaos theory in Jurassic Park.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cVLUPwrSmU

According to the verticutting video, you are getting a 20% increase in water penetration - but this is specific to this soil profile. It would be interesting to see (using a more controlled experiment) how other soil types are affected. Essentially, it should be the same as the thickness of the turf is what is initially slowing the water penetration, but it still piques my curiosity.

Even 7th grade level science experiments have their merit. If they show a possible outcome that is beneficial, someone else can always come behind them with a higher quality experiment to substantiate the findings - or prove them false.


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Redtenchu said:


> I'd prefer if the water application was done at a slower consistent rate to mimic rainfall or irrigation.





Mightyquinn said:


> It makes sense but I didn't care for the video too much as he was just throwing water on it and a lot was spilling off.





touchofgrass said:


> I think he wasted a lot of the potential of the water by just dumping it on there. He should've either done a time-lapse video of a sprinkler system over them side by side maybe or poured the water slowly to avoid the spillage over the sides.





Wes said:


> His method of dumping the water over the top of the grass creates quite a bit of variables.


I think we all agree the video/experiment should've been done differently. 

I'm excited to see the benefits of verticutting first-hand this year. Keeping the turf under 0.50 inches for the season was a challenge, the turf density was awesome, but caused some "hydrophobic like" issues. I'm hoping to open the canopy of turf to create better water/nutrient/air penetration.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Are you planning on using any wetting agents this year in addition to the verticutting?


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> Are you planning on using any wetting agents this year in addition to the verticutting?


I haven't looked into it much, but should.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I've always enjoyed this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KEfcwPGV5Y&t=14s


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Definitely a great example, thanks for sharing the video Ware!


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## Wes (Feb 15, 2017)

WOW!

So does the surfactant need to be in the water during irrigation, or is it something that can be applied to the soil separately through spraying?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Wes said:


> WOW!
> 
> So does the surfactant need to be in the water during irrigation, or is it something that can be applied to the soil separately through spraying?


It can be applied through spraying. Just like mixing up anything else you would apply to your lawn. (Celsius, Prodiamine, Primo.....)


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## Wes (Feb 15, 2017)

Is this something special, or would shampoo work?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Shampoo "can" work to a certain extent but you won't see any results like you did in the video. You would need a specialized wetting agent to get the effects of the video. I just purchase some of this Tournament Ready, it's suppose to be pretty good stuff and I know others on here have used it but I don't know what the outcome was. I want to say the wetting agent in the video is Cascade(NOT the dishwasher soap  )


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## Wes (Feb 15, 2017)

I would be interested to see a write up on this product once you start using it. I'm especially curious about the application rate necessary to solve your problem.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Here is part of the label instructions.


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## Wes (Feb 15, 2017)

So are you planning to go with the golf green and tees rate, monthly maintenance, or lawn care rates?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Wes said:


> So are you planning to go with the golf green and tees rate, monthly maintenance, or lawn care rates?


That's a really good question, I haven't really thought about that yet. I think once it arrives, I will start coming up with a plan of action. I still have over a gallon of Lesco Moisture Manager left over from over a year ago so I will probably use that as my first app and then go from there. I will probably do some more research too on TR.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I started using Tournament Ready last season on the monthly maintenance treatment schedule for greens and tees - 8oz per thousand, followed by monthly applications at 4oz per thousand. I didn't apply any over the winter months though.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Well, I just found this and will probably go with the Monthly Maintenance Treatment Schedule. 8 oz/K initially then 4oz/K every month there after.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Ware said:


> I didn't apply any over the winter months though.


So you haven't been watering weekly throughout the winter like DFW_Pilot's neighbors :lol:


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

J_nick said:


> So you haven't been watering weekly throughout the winter like DFW_Pilot's neighbors :lol:


Haha, no kidding. They are probably part of the reason why we stay with water restrictions year round, but maybe on the bright side, they are helping to fund the water district with plenty of revenue.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

dfw_pilot said:


> J_nick said:
> 
> 
> > So you haven't been watering weekly throughout the winter like DFW_Pilot's neighbors :lol:
> ...


Some people just don't know any better. The installer set the controller up for summer months and it probably hasn't been touched since. I've been itching to dewinterize mine lately. I ordered some water proof wire nuts since a gopher chewed a wire in half but unfortunately they are lost somewhere around DFW via FedEx smartpost.


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> Depending on how deep you are wanting to verticut, A converted greens mower may not have the power to cut through the thick rhizomes of Bermuda. Where a dedicated verticutter should have the power to get the job done.


I had my local CC golf course super bring a greens mower with verticutter heads to my house last fall and verticut my yard. made a mess but it had no problems cutting the thick celebration Bermuda stolons in my yard.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Those verticutter heads are spendy but look awesome. I bet they did great.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Very good to know MM!!! It's always good to have some first hand knowledge of something like that.


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> Very good to know MM!!! It's always good to have some first hand knowledge of something like that.


Well I.m about to find out, Toro recommends on going 1/4" max into the soil profile on the verticut reels I have. I think part of the reason for this is the reel motors can overheat and hydraulic pressures go way up cutting to far into the soil. My yard is broken up into smaller areas in front because of sidewalks and driveways ex 1000k, 1800k 3000k, etc.. I plan on doing each section then letting the machine rest while cleaning up each section. .


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## atc4usmc (Apr 1, 2017)

Someone tell me more about converting a rotary mower to a verticutter....


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

atc4usmc said:


> Someone tell me more about converting a rotary mower to a verticutter....


It's possible to convert a *reel* mower to a verticutter. It would take a lot of engineering to convert a *rotary* mower but I guess anything is possible.


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

I think they have spring tine dethaching blades for rotary motors but converting a rotary to verticutter just would not happen. Yeah could probably convert reel to verticut but getting the right parts and pieces plus the time spent figuring it out you could probably just find a decent used one.

I verticut about 3/4 of my front yard today... it was a little wet from last nights rain. The mower did a good job but I only had the cutting units set to maybe 1/8-1/4" don't have gauge or measuring shims yet. A lot but not a ton of stuff was pulled up and being fairly damp kept the dust down picking up all the debris. gonna wait till it all dries out and finish the front and rear yard... maybe this weekend.


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