# Grocery Store Tackifier?



## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

So, I need a reality check here... With that bastard Gordon and his rain headed this way, I've been frantically trying to find a tackifier for my reno locally and on the interwebs to no avail. In looking around, I noticed that the primary ingredients used in hydromulch tackifier is PAM and guar gum. I also found this study on hydromulch alternatives to guar. It basically concluded xanthan gum could be used as an fine alternative to guar. Xanthan is commonly used as a thickening agent in baking and cooking and can be bought at grocery stores. It looks like the hydro mulch rate of guar is 30-40#/acre or roughly 0.7-0.9#/m.

Am I crazy for considering putting this stuff down in an attempt to protect seeds from washout?

https://pubag.nal.usda.gov/catalog/55267
(full text PDF available if you scroll down a bit)


----------



## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

I've used the ezstraw seeding mulch from lowes and recommend it. It has a tackifer in it. I used it on some slopes and had server storms and it held everything in place..


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

jessehurlburt said:


> I've used the ezstraw seeding mulch from lowes and recommend it. It has a tackifer in it. I used it on some slopes and had server storms and it held everything in place..


I would use this if available or as a last resort, get straw or something with pieces larger than peat moss or compost and cover with geo textile fabric or a porous landscape fabric. Then use stakes to secure it to the ground. It'll be pretty hard to lose your work under that. Of course, you'll have to remove later...


----------



## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

I'll second the EZ straw recommendation. And one bale goes a long way. I used it very lightly.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

STL, I used the m-binder product and had a washout. The m-binder did not work for me. It held a layer of soil together, but the water pushed the soil from underneath (think of a mudslide). I think I had an extreme condition. It might work fine in a flat surface.

M-binder is made from plantago gum.

I found this report for xanthan on soils. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0950061814011702

I think the only thing crazy is to do nothing. I'm going to give this a try today. PAM tackifier https://www.domyown.com/profile-flocloc-p-9598.html


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Our local news latest forecast.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

g-man said:


> STL, I used the m-binder product and had a washout. The m-binder did not work for me. It held a layer of soil together, but the water pushed the soil from underneath (think of a mudslide). I think I had an extreme condition. It might work fine in a flat surface.
> 
> M-binder is made from plantago gum.
> 
> ...


This was my experience with m-binder. It kind of formed a crust which slid a little but I didn't have to deal with torrential rain. Maybe applying m-binder with more water? I'm not sure how to get it deeper to hold together more material vertically.

I'm eager to hear your results with PAM!!


----------



## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

Thanks for the feedback fellas! I think I'm going to go with a combo of EZ straw and xanthan gum. I put down a light layer of compost so I don't want to get too crazy with more top dressing, but to @g-man's point, I need to do something. That gif is terrifying BTW! Lol

@Budstl you used EZ straw, yeah? Have you noticed the tackifier effect at all?


----------



## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

@STL well i don't think i lost any seed from one of the storms we had a few days after seeding. I'm getting pretty good germination. I will say that the ez straw says 99% weed free if that were to concern you at all. I payed $10 a bale.


----------



## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

Would easy straw be of benefit if germination has already occurred or will it hurt the tiny seedlings?


----------



## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

The straw is very processed and theres plenty of tackifier to keep everything in place. I have a pretty steep slope I seeded on this month It it works well for some serious storms. When you rub your hands together spreading it, you'll notice the tackifer powder coming out first. I found it worked best by spreading that powder over a section, then spreading the straw over the powder. It's worked great for me.

They said, I get the tier 3 guys being weary of the possible 1% weed seed


----------



## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

drenglish said:


> Would easy straw be of benefit if germination has already occurred or will it hurt the tiny seedlings?


I would not cover them after germination, personally.


----------



## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

Well. Looks like I'm just going to stand out there like Gandalf and keep ole Gordon from passing through us.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

From NOAA 1-3 days precipitation totals.


----------



## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

@g-man woof! Not looking good.

@jessehurlburt do you recall how much rain you got when you used the EZ Straw? We're supposed to get up to 5 inches over about two days and not sure if it will stand up to that or just make more of a mess to clean up.


----------



## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

STL said:


> @jessehurlburt do you recall how much rain you got when you used the EZ Straw? We're supposed to get up to 5 inches over about two days and not sure if it will stand up to that or just make more of a mess to clean up.


I did not get 5" in two days, that is for sure. I just checked the historical precipitation for that week and I had two storms within 3 days that were between 3/4 and 1" all at once. I don't know all the details of your situation, but I will always use this stuff when seeding with any kind of slope. I can tell you, once you water it, it really glues itself down nicely. If you get 2"+ within a few hours that is going to be tough regardless of what you use. Worth a shot if you don't have any other options.


----------



## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

@jessehurlburt wow, that's great. Thanks for the info!


----------



## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

So, germination just started and I'm seeing seedlings here and there starting to poke up. I think I'm going to still apply the EZ Straw despite the risk of walking on it. What do you guys think, any other reason not to that I may be overlooking?


----------

