# Cenlalowell Bermuda kill off trial



## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Here's what I'm trying start this fall. I will try to kill off the Bermuda in my yard. The yard I have now is about 60/40 or 50/50 give or take.

First the chemicals I have on hand

Tenacity+simizine
Ethofumesate+atrazine
Glyosphate

Wish me luck in this endeavor


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Okay first experiment

This section is about 590 sq ft and has about 60/40 ratio with St Augustine in the lead.


Now I've sprayed this with ethofumesate 1/2 oz+atrazine 4 oz. Both are label rates and this took place on 9/4/19.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Here's the shot I'm probably going to use from here on with this area. It shows some discoloration, but I don't know if that's from pure heat or my chemicals


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Next area this section is 80%st Augustine and 20% Bermuda


I sprayed ethofumesate 1.1 oz+atrazine 8oz in 1 gal of water.


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## hkfan45 (May 11, 2019)

Would you say this has been effective? Or too early to tell? Any damage to the st. Aug? What air temperatures are you spraying at?


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

hkfan45 said:


> Would you say this has been effective? Or too early to tell? Any damage to the st. Aug? What air temperatures are you spraying at?


I think it's to early to tell. No damage to the St Augustine and the only time I spray is between 5-6 am. I will buy a 1/2 gal of ethofumesate and a gallon of atrazine for the spring and I will make a clear determination next year


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

I fertilized with 36-0-0 on those two areas


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

New update. Still don't understand this. 


Some areas of the Bermuda loss color and this area loss all color. Now, the article I read said it was better to do this in the spring also. So, I will hit it hard in the spring time as well.

I'm using XR teejet nozzles and now I'm wondering if it would be better to use the TT teejet??? Advice


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

I spot sprayed a spot in the front yard and now I'm 100% it works as far as browning it out and stunning growth. 


What I don't know is how long will this last and should I increase the rate of atrazine for even more effectiveness


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## hkfan45 (May 11, 2019)

what are your mixture rates for atrazine and Ethofumesate? Per 1K


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## hkfan45 (May 11, 2019)

CenlaLowell said:


> I spot sprayed a spot in the front yard and now I'm 100% it works as far as browning it out and stunning growth.
> 
> 
> What I don't know is how long will this last and should I increase the rate of atrazine for even more effectiveness


what are your rates for the two chemicals?


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

hkfan45 said:


> what are your mixture rates for atrazine and Ethofumesate? Per 1K


Atrazine 8 oz and ethofumesate 2.25 oz 1k. I'm going to increase the atrazine by 2 oz every time I spray or until the St Augustine can't handle it


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

1 week update. It definitely has gotten worst off I don't know if the pictures do it justice.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Update

Ok I now have a better understanding of this experiment. One there's no killing Bermuda short of glyosphate and maybe plyex(cool season).

Next, what seems to happen is more of a suppression. Bermuda turns really dark brown, but it's not dead at all. So I read the label and I sprayed this at the wrong time of season. Which is posted here⬇⬇⬇⬇


So here is the new update of the lawn. This process will work but you will need to be very patient. Also this will not lead to a 100% removal of Bermuda in my opinion, but I'm just trying to get to 90/10


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Sprayed ethofumesate and atrazine this morning.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

End of the season review.

First, this combination of chemicals does work for SUPPRESSION. there will not be any kill off of Bermuda what so ever. So the goal here is to see how much I can The St Augustine to take over.

Since this is a spring time combination I will spray next year in March and April then towards the end of the 2020 season see if the St Augustine has made any headway.

Lord willing


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

CenlaLowell said:


> hkfan45 said:
> 
> 
> > what are your mixture rates for atrazine and Ethofumesate? Per 1K
> ...


Hey @CenlaLowell, I think we talked about this combo last year so I'm very interested in your results!

Question, what strength Atrazine are you using? The only liquid atrazine I have is made by Hi-Yield. It's in 32oz bottle but only has 4% AI (max legal strength I can get I think). So 8oz/m of that would be only 0.32oz AI, or a little under 1 pound/acre...Is yours different? Max rate of atrazine AI is about 2lbs/acre I believe.

I'm going to try the lazy route to suppress or kill my invasive bermuda in my front yard this year with this cheap weed and feed with 1.39% atrazine. By my math 4lbs of prills/m (bag rate) would contain 0.89oz of atrazine...or 2.45lbs/acre. I think yearly max is 2.5lbs/acre.

I hit the lawn with a healthy dose last night and plan to spoon feed it weekly or bi-weekly the rest of the year to limit runoff. Maybe the bermuda won't like the constant harassment...time will tell! Good luck with your trials.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Vigoro-33-3-lb-10-000-sq-ft-Florida-Weed-and-Feed-22570-1/205566242


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

LawnRat said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> > hkfan45 said:
> ...


What I'm thinking is the suppression would be enough to let my st Augustine win the battle. My Atrazine is 4% as well. I'm going to spray this week coming, I believe and this is what I'm using. I never thought about weed and feed with atrazine. Seems like an expensive undertaking especially if you have a big yard.

http://m.pestrong.com/site/pestrongmobile/default?orderby=position&orderway=desc&search_query=Rightline&submit_search=Go&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pestrong.com%2Fsearch.php#2525

https://www.domyown.com/southern-ag-atrazine-weed-killer-for-st-augustine-grass-p-2091.html

Let's hope for the best


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

CenlaLowell said:


> What I'm thinking is the suppression would be enough to let my st Augustine win the battle.


That's my hope too.



CenlaLowell said:


> I never thought about weed and feed with atrazine. Seems like an expensive undertaking especially if you have a big yard.


I think you would need about 22 ounces of that liquid to equal the same amount of atrazine as 4 lbs of the granular W&F. Without doing too much drunken math, $11 per M for the liquid Vs about $4.25 for the HD granular/m? Plus you get the N and K...

My plan was to buy the cheaper W&F from Walmart...it has a similar concentration of atrazine as the HD stuff in a bigger 20lb bag for only $11 (~$2.50/m), but they were out of stock when I got there so I went to HD. www.walmart.com/ip/Rite-Green-St-Augustine-14-0-6-Weed-Feed-Lawn-Fertilizer-20-Lb/16782620

After learning the expensive way that the best broadleaf herbicide for my Floratam turned out to be the cheapest I own (MSM turf), I have no problem trying the cheapest solution possible. Celsius and Certainty left me wondering why I bought them...

I think the atrazine has some pre-M properties, so maybe spoon feeding all season will keep the common bermuda seeds from sprouting too? Dunno, can't hurt.

Great find on that Rightline stuff! Last year I was looking at Prograss or Poa Constrictor $$$$ for the same AI. Your mobile links are unreadable on a PC, just an FYI....


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

LawnRat said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> > What I'm thinking is the suppression would be enough to let my st Augustine win the battle.
> ...


Celsius and Certainty are really good products as well. Matt Martin did a video on MSM and why people should use a sparingly. Okay on to the task at hand. Remember atrazine is going to turn your Bermuda brown so I'm only doing this experiment in the spring and maybe fall. Fingers crossed


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Update.

I made a big mistake last season but it did not effect the outcome at all. Just a waste of expensive chemical. Here's what happened I sprayed at 2.25 oz per 1k of ethousmate when I should have been spraying at 0.5 oz 1k. I pulled the label for Rightline etho


Poaconstrictor a.i. 14% and Rightline is 42% oh well you live and learn.

Anywho, I sprayed Rightline, lawnstar surfactant, turf Mark, and atrazine and label rates. Over 10k of my yard using the trailer sprayer




I will do this again in 21 days and that will be it until the fall.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

New experiment

I sprayed atrazine, tenacity, and MSO surfactant in this area. I actually went further out then this but I'll use this as a Snapshot. 


We will see how it goes
This area is about 5x24 total. I didn't paint the whole section though. Area 100% Bermuda


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Mistake made but still something valuable learned. I was spraying ethousmate, atrazine, and lawnstar surfactant two weeks ago. First thing is that I stopped for a second while the pump was still running outcome


I learned not to do that again, but I also learned that the only thing that is damaged is the Bermuda.

Next I don't think I sprayed enough to get the outcome I should have because the Bermuda never turned brown this time( only in that spot).


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## mowww (Jan 16, 2018)

Fun to follow, thanks for the updates.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Okay I'm spraying the whole yard trying to suppress Bermuda, but I'm documenting the section










Since I put my fence up I section over 2,333 for the backyard. So I will dump heavy amount of ethofusmate atrazine plus a surfactant. I will keep the Bermuda brown back here. Two weeks ago I sprayed so I'm probably going to spray again shortly.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Sprayed this section today.

2 gallons
1 oz ethofusmate
16 oz atrazine
1.25 oz of lawnstar surfactant

I'm probably spraying t Nex/iron on this section to reduce top growth and promote spread.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Spray time

2 gallons

T Nex .30 oz
Prosolutions 15-0-0 16 oz
RGS 12 oz (last of this product)
Lawnstar surfactant 1.25 oz

Goal here is to promote spread while ethofusmate mix is doing the suppressing. Will revisit in 14 days


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

CenlaLowell said:


> New experiment
> 
> I sprayed atrazine, tenacity, and MSO surfactant in this area. I actually went further out then this but I'll use this as a Snapshot.
> 
> ...


Okay tenacity definitely works took a while and my application was horrible telling by the results




Now I'm thinking I can use this mixture also when trying to suppress Bermuda.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Fertilizer only the st Augustine areas in my section. Had some left over Scott's Green max that I used.

Plus it actually rained it in for me, Yes


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Where I use tenacity+atrazine in the test area I noticed what some people mentioned and that is st Augustine turns pale as well.


So that's probably a no go for me or when I spray it I will make sure st Augustine is not in the area already


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## acegator (May 31, 2018)

The Bermuda looks good though


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

I noticed on the label, it says:

"Tenacity may cause temporary whitening of turfgrass foliage. In general, symptoms appear five to seven days after 
application and last for several weeks. A repeat application to the same site causes less whitening of the plant 
tissue."

That's kind of interesting. Wonder why a repeat application would cause less whitening.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

acegator said:


> The Bermuda looks good though


No, no, no I have to kill it


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

ionicatoms said:


> I noticed on the label, it says:
> 
> "Tenacity may cause temporary whitening of turfgrass foliage. In general, symptoms appear five to seven days after
> application and last for several weeks. A repeat application to the same site causes less whitening of the plant
> ...


Maybe it builds little resistance up to the chemical. That's my thinking at least


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Today sprayed

2 gallons

16 oz atrazine
1 oz ethofusmate
1.25 oz lawn star surfactant

First day of summer I will stop spraying this until the fall


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Today

2 gallons

.50 oz T Nex
1.25 oz lawn star surfactant
16 oz prosolutions 15-0-0

Increase t Nex to see how it effects it st Augustine


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## balistek (Jun 5, 2017)

Hoping your trials lead to a viable solution


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

balistek said:


> Hoping your trials lead to a viable solution


Here's what I can say so far. If I keep the st Augustine healthy all season it will win out imo.

After that I'm going to increase the rate of ethofusmate in my mix probably in the fall to produce this effect


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Sprayed

1/2 gallons

.50 oz Axozystrobin
.50 oz Propiconazole

Only hit the st Augustine

Notice: okay I wasn't a true believer of this t Nex stuff but I have cut my back yard the whole month. That stuff is amazing


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## balistek (Jun 5, 2017)

I can relate to the strife associated with keeping st Augustine healthy. I cut mine lower hoping to offset fungus. I don't know. Apps of fungicide only go so far. Otherwise. Luck of the draw I guess


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

balistek said:


> I can relate to the strife associated with keeping st Augustine healthy. I cut mine lower hoping to offset fungus. I don't know. Apps of fungicide only go so far. Otherwise. Luck of the draw I guess


Other than fungicides what I'm changing this year is adding more potassium and phosphate to the lawn. Im also adding much less nitrogen too. I have decided to go with 8-24-24.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Sprayed

2 gallons

1 oz pennant magnum
1 oz bifen it

Tomorrow probably watering it in


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

CenlaLowell said:


> Sprayed
> 
> 2 gallons
> 
> ...


Is that your only application of pennant for the year?


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

TSGarp007 said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> > Sprayed
> ...


Yes it is. Sprayed the low amount over 2,333 sqft


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Sprayed

2 gallons

2 oz ethofusmate
16 oz atrazine
1.25 oz of lawnstar surfactant

St Augustine is taking off back here. I'll keep increasing the etho from here on out. I'm looking for that same result I got from the over spray in the front.

Next thing

There's definitely an increase in spread from the st Augustine


This area here is about 90% Bermuda we will see how I do by fall time



Until next time


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

Keep it up! Awesome work.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Sprayed 2 gallons

T Nex .25 oz/1k
Paclo .50 oz/1k

Curious to see how long it lasts in the Louisiana heat


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

It's crazy how much st Augustine has spread. The first pic is from three years ago. We had only been living here for a year at the time 


I sprig plenty of areas that year and water them for three weeks. Goal was to get st Augustine to take hold. Now



Man this is crazy how good the st Augustine is doing over the years.


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

Looks great! Are those mostly crepe myrtles in the yard? What's the shorter one with pink flowers, kind of in the middle of the picture. I see those around also, they look a lot like the crepe myrtles, but have a darker trunk and grow slower. Personally hoping that if you trim them, you only trim them to encourage vertical growth and eventually end up with a tall tree with a beautiful, flowering canopy. I had to take mine out b/c they were just way too close to the house, and someone had already started the cycle of myrtle 'murder.'

What's the status of that problem you were dealing with that looked like fungus?


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

TSGarp007 said:


> Looks great! Are those mostly crepe myrtles in the yard? What's the shorter one with pink flowers, kind of in the middle of the picture. I see those around also, they look a lot like the crepe myrtles, but have a darker trunk and grow slower. Personally hoping that if you trim them, you only trim them to encourage vertical growth and eventually end up with a tall tree with a beautiful, flowering canopy. I had to take mine out b/c they were just way too close to the house, and someone had already started the cycle of myrtle 'murder.'
> 
> What's the status of that problem you were dealing with that looked like fungus?


That's a crepe myrtle also. I have them all over the yard. Yes, I trim them to make them look like trees. No fungus for now, fingers crossed, my soil test showed pH was to high so maybe that stopped the fungicide from working correctly. Putting down 21-0-0 AMS to change that.

Like this




Thanks man


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Okay here's some more pics of st Augustine growth over time.

Jun 2016


Today







Bermuda and weeds were all over in the first pic and now you can see then Bermuda that's left.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

I stand corrected. @TSGarp007 


I really don't know why this is happening all the time. Maybe because my pH was high and soil not correct. I have plenty of different fungicides so I know that's not it. Maybe it luna pushing the fungus through. The grass is high so when I cut it that will tell that. Fingers crossed


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

What was your pH when you tested? Hopefully the cut helps out.

While beautiful, your grass always seems to be a little light in color compared to mine. Not sure if it's just the pics or what.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

TSGarp007 said:


> What was your pH when you tested? Hopefully the cut helps out.
> 
> While beautiful, your grass always seems to be a little light in color compared to mine. Not sure if it's just the pics or what.


7.6 I believe. The color difference could be the type of St Augustine turf or maybe I don't put enough iron on mine.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

CenlaLowell said:


> I really don't know why this is happening all the time. Maybe because my pH was high and soil not correct. I have plenty of different fungicides so I know that's not it.


UF says atrazine and nitrogen can make St. Augustine more susceptible to gray leaf spotting. Worth considering.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pp126


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Ok, I made a big mistake in the backyard. I thought spraying t Nex and Paclo would have it spread, but that is not what I experienced so far. I'm letting it Rebound and will fertilizer once a week there.



The front yard has made plenty of st Augustine spread though. You live and learn.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

What's your opinion of Tenacity? Are you giving up on it for bermuda suppression?


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

ionicatoms said:


> What's your opinion of Tenacity? Are you giving up on it for bermuda suppression?


Yes, I use tenacity only in my roundup so I can see kill off faster. It's to hard on st Augustine turf to get any results on Bermuda.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Theres some areas I messed up this year but for the most part this guy is correct.

https://youtu.be/r_tbZAw7qTs


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Ok, I'm back at it. Here's the plan for this year is to spray twice in the spring and once in the fall. I will be using rightline etho 2sc, Southern ag atrazine, duo stick MSO.

Following label rates the first time






Wish me luck


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Okay fellas

I sprayed rightline etho 4sc, atrazine sprayed with TT1104 next time I will use XR11004



On this section



Clean up time


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## JLavoe (Jun 8, 2020)

Try Fusilade in your tank.. that's a great kicker.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

Fusilade on St. Aug? Haven't seen any guidance on this before. Sounds risky.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

JLavoe said:


> Try Fusilade in your tank.. that's a great kicker.


While it is used for control or suppression of Bermuda it is not labeled for st augustine.


@ionicatoms


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## JLavoe (Jun 8, 2020)

@ionicatoms @CenlaLowell You guys are 100% correct.. I didn't read back and just assumed you were killing off bermuda on it's own. It will smoke St Aug too.. Lol my bad :bandit:


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## mjh648 (Sep 1, 2020)

I have some Bermuda in one area that is spreading aggressively. Found runners trying to spread out that were probably 3-4' long. Also have some areas that had some sod installed that already had Bermuda mixed in it so not too happy about that. Might try to cut out the 90% Bermuda area and sod with reliable SA but unsure as to my plan for the spots that are probably 60% SA/40% Bermuda. Might join the good fight with this cocktail yall are using to suppress Bermuda. Have you ever tried using AMS to boost effectiveness?


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

mjh648 said:


> I have some Bermuda in one area that is spreading aggressively. Found runners trying to spread out that were probably 3-4' long. Also have some areas that had some sod installed that already had Bermuda mixed in it so not too happy about that. Might try to cut out the 90% Bermuda area and sod with reliable SA but unsure as to my plan for the spots that are probably 60% SA/40% Bermuda. Might join the good fight with this cocktail yall are using to suppress Bermuda. Have you ever tried using AMS to boost effectiveness?


Yep AMS is no good bermuda loves it. Greendoc informed me not to run any nitrogen at all. If I had areas with 90% bermuda I would spray glysophate, mow lower and repeat the process.

Sod cutter WILL NOT work. When I did the flower bed this year I used one and without plastic sheeting the bermuda would have still came through. Dealing with bermuda is going to be the long game so take pictures and buckle up.

Good luck


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## nitrobass24 (Mar 6, 2021)

I'm about to start my battle against Bermuda in my St. Aug here in Dallas. I have some Asulox, Prograss, and Atrazine that i am going to test out.

Do you feel that increasing the rate of the Ethofumesate to double the label helped with the suppression of the Bermuda or is it the Atrazine doing the heavy lifting? I'm going to test all of them alone at first, but any insights you can share are appreciated!

Also at 8oz of Atrazine, I assume you are using the GUP 4% formulation, correct?


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

nitrobass24 said:


> I'm about to start my battle against Bermuda in my St. Aug here in Dallas. I have some Asulox, Prograss, and Atrazine that i am going to test out.
> 
> Do you feel that increasing the rate of the Ethofumesate to double the label helped with the suppression of the Bermuda or is it the Atrazine doing the heavy lifting? I'm going to test all of them alone at first, but any insights you can share are appreciated!
> 
> Also at 8oz of Atrazine, I assume you are using the GUP 4% formulation, correct?


4% atrazine is correct.
Really have no idea which one is doing the heavy lifting. I just go with label rates for now. 
I never used auslox before.

Does it work? Yes but be prepared for length of time you need. Also I refer to this chart only when I was looking for chemicals that would suppress Bermuda.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

CenlaLowell said:


> Okay fellas
> 
> I sprayed rightline etho 4sc, atrazine sprayed with TT1104 next time I will use XR11004
> 
> ...


I finally was able to put my second application down only thing I changed was using XRC nozzles


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## UltimateLawn (Sep 25, 2020)

@CenlaLowell , what's the latest on the Bermuda kill off results? Have you reached a final recommended formulation?


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

UltimateLawn said:


> @CenlaLowell , what's the latest on the Bermuda kill off results? Have you reached a final recommended formulation?


@UltimateLawn 
No I haven't this mix works and it definitely brown Bermuda out, but it takes TIME and PATIENCE. So I take it month by month over here.

I'm also thinking you spray this mix in the middle of summer and it should burn the Bermuda. Look at this


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

How's it going now?


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

TSGarp007 said:


> How's it going now?


I stopped posting to this thread because I decided to go in the opposite direction. I killed of the st Augustine and kept the Bermuda. Can you kill Bermuda in st Augustine yes but you need the perfect conditions for it to happen. I kept getting hit with GLS and the Bermuda would make crazy gains when that happened.

Good luck


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## UltimateLawn (Sep 25, 2020)

I'm with @CenlaLowell . I'm starting to accept both Bermuda and StAug together. The Bermuda handles high stress areas, particularly under North TX sun or fungal attacks. The StAug looks really nice cut high.


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

Interesting... It was a tall task to be sure. So far I've kept mine at bay just by hand pulling it and trying to keep the SA healthy and cut high. I don't see any now, but I'm sure it will pop up again once it starts getting really hot. (edit: I only have a little bermuda in a few spots in my yard).


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