# Slingblade Renovation



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

OK. The time has come for me to advance from Tier 2 into Tier 3. Feel i have spent the last two years with solid Tier 2 status, but the more experienced i have become, the more i see what used to be smaller issues with my lawn become large and significant. Time to burn both sides and front sections for a total of a 4K SQ FT lawn renovation. My neighbors think im crazy, and i believe a little upset that i will be outdoing them even more now. My wife is flabbergasted, and I've planned for forgiveness. Ive stopped trying to explain.

I am planning for the Fall for Renovation. Planning started weeks ago, and i am continuing to research and obtain knowledge, and @Babameca has been very insightful, and has given me solid feedback on questions.

Im following the Reno guide from @g-man , and have walked backwards from the last step of 60 days after germination. As of now - planning on seed down date early August, but will adjust accordingly.

Currently building my checklist, and slowly acquiring the things on this list - as to not be a huge hit on budget at once. Supply check list and estimated cost seen below.

I will use this thread to provide updates on my plans, check list, and some things that have been learned along the way.

Please wish me luck, as the only encouragement i am getting is on this forum. God bless The Lawn Forum!!!

Supply Checklist and Cost:


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Lawn as of 05/29/2020:









And here is the grass mix I can no longer tolerate....filled with KY-31:


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Sling,

Have you considered adding a second TTPR cultivar? For a top tier lawn, you're at the whim of seed availability for future repairs. By having two Ryegrass varieties instead of just a single one in your mix, you increase the chance of having consistent seed types available for many years. After all, you'll be wanting to stick with only the original cultivars for future spot repairs.

An example of this is my back lawn. It's a lot like one you're planning, with 3 KBG varieties (but with TTTF instead of TTPR). I am so glad I used two TTTF cultivars. Since seeding the renovation in Fall 2013, one of my TTTF varieties was discontinued but it was replaced with a direct successor. More recently, the other TTTF cultivar has been discontinued as well, but I still have a little of that seed left. One of my 3 KBG cultivars in the mix has had good availability this entire time for the most part, with a few hiccups here and there. Another of the three has been tough to get for going on two years, and has not been grown for several years even though it's technically still current (but I can't get any). The third KBG cultivar I have in the lawn is tough to get (with rumblings about discontinuation), but I managed to get a few lbs a couple of years ago. The net effect is that I have some seed of one of the original TTTF cultivars (until I run out or the seed goes bad with age), the successor of the second TTTF, and two of the 3 KBG cultivars (for now).

Food for thought. You can plug with the KBG, but it doesn't work as well with the PR, since it doesnt have rhizomes to fill in the donor spot. If you have a larger repair to do, it can also be an issue in and of itself to get enough plugs and have the donor and repair areas maintain a homogeneous look. Seed can be very helpful! In my opinion, these nuances are worth a consideration in a tier 1 lawn.

As I mentioned in your other thread, Apple SGL is another good choice that I've been using for a year now. There is also Apple 3GL.

I'm not a fan of using more than say, 6 cultivars in a mix, though, if you want that tier 1 look. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@Green thanks for the insight, and your feedback is being strongly considered. Few questions though....

1.) for repairs, such as a patch, it would still need to be similar to the mix spread across the lawn, correct? Meaning if I have 4 cultivars, I want the same four, or closest to the four (i.e. only 3 available) for that patch vs. not just use one cultivar for the patch.

2.) Would you increase the 20% of PRG overall, or just add a second PRG for a 10/10 split to equal the 20%


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Lawn Renovation Timeline


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Slingblade_847 said:


> @Green thanks for the insight, and your feedback is being strongly considered. Few questions though....
> 
> 1.) for repairs, such as a patch, it would still need to be similar to the mix spread across the lawn, correct? Meaning if I have 4 cultivars, I want the same four, or closest to the four (i.e. only 3 available) for that patch vs. not just use one cultivar for the patch.


Correct. Ideally I want to maintain the same mix for repairs. But you can always take plugs if needed, and fill in with seed as well. I haven't done that in my tier 1 back lawn due to my Poa triv problem...plugs would spread it around. I have almost gotten rid of it in that lawn finally, this year.



Slingblade_847 said:


> 2.) Would you increase the 20% of PRG overall, or just add a second PRG for a 10/10 split to equal the 20%


I think you are good at 20% total. So 10% each. It should produce about a 50/50 lawn (PR seedlings are more aggressive than other species, especially the newer cultivars, and many of those also do have a bit of spreading ability when mature, too). I like a ~3 lbs per thousand square feet seeding rate for 80/20 mixes of KBG/PR. Check my math to be sure. Make sure you are definitely below the max KBG seeding rate, since you have PR in the mix too. E.g. 3x0.8=2.4 lb. I think 3 lbs is the absolute max ever recommended for KBG alone, and you would be below that at the 3 lb rate for the mix.

I think the mix I've been using to reseed killed Triv spots in my side lawn is also an 80/20 KBGR mix like the one you plan to use.


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

One other thing to keep on mind: the new lawn almost certainly will be less drought tolerant due to grass types used, and also require more frequent irrigation (due to grass type and newness of grass).


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Green said:


> Slingblade_847 said:
> 
> 
> > @Green thanks for the insight, and your feedback is being strongly considered. Few questions though....
> ...


@Green - when you say "It should produce about a 50/50 lawn" - you are saying i should get 50/50 specifically to the PRG, and not that my lawn will be 50 KBG/50PRG, correct? Just wanted some clarification for my own piece of mind. Truly appreciate the detail you have provided me - very insightful.


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Slingblade_847, I did mean 50 percent KBG and 50% PR in the final lawn. But don't quote me. It depends on a lot things, like weather at seeding time. We only have so much control over the final lawn composition. Nature impacts it, too. Remember the KBG is slower, so the PR grows faster with less seed and competes well with less total seeds. It could also be 70 percent KBG in the final lawn, for example. Or 10% KBG on the other extreme, with different conditions but the same seed ratio.

Contrary to popular lore though, I find percent PR decreases over time and KBG increases. Our regions are pretty tough on PR in both Winter and Summer. But I've also seed PR rebound in some years and do really well after losing quite a bit in other years. But I've never seen PR "take over" years after seeding in my own lawn, like one or two of the studies showed. At best, it seems to recover back to the original condition present a year or so after seeding.


----------



## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Depending how much you plan to spray in the future, you my want to consider a battery powered sprayer rather than a pump sprayer. For 2-3 times per year, the pump will be fine, but if you are planning every 2 weeks or so, you definitely should consider a battery sprayer. If you are thinking of foliar fertilization, then I would definitely go battery powered.

Those bluegrass choices are top tier. Looking forward to this.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@Green thanks for the clarification! At first I was a bit alarmed. I was wanting a 80/20 mix on my final lawn. However, on another feed I went at length with @Babameca and @bernstem and had recommended the addition of the PRG, and you took it one step father to add the 2nd cultivar. Fully believe you know what you are all talking about much more than I do. Sticking with the mix! Modified a bit from above to add the second PRG cultivar.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Soil test has been ordered. Went with the $31 option. Probably more than this guy needs, but go big or go home at this point.

http://agrienergy.net/lab-services/



Excited to see my results, but feel fortunate to live in the Midwest with black gold. I used a hand trowel to get 4-5" into the soil. Collected from 8 spots across my 4K sq/ft planned renovation area. Was glad this didn't take much effort, relieved any soil compaction concern.


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Slingblade_847 said:


> @Green thanks for the clarification! At first I was a bit alarmed. I was wanting a 80/20 mix on my final lawn. However, on another feed I went at length with @Babameca and @bernstem and had recommended the addition of the PRG, and you took it one step father to add the 2nd cultivar. Fully believe you know what you are all talking about much more than I do. Sticking with the mix! Modified a bit from above to add the second PRG cultivar.


Looks good.

Get the cleanest seed you can. Every bit helps. But nothing is guaranteed 100% weed free, even sod certified seed. Don't be alarmed if you see a bit of annual Ryegrass popping up here and there (looks like bright green tall fescue). It's been common in seed the past few years. But it's easy to get rid of if there is a little, by pulling, and it dies back in the second Summer (year after seeding). Also *** seed can have Poa Trivialis in it. Many of us have seen that come up.


----------



## Wolverine (Jan 17, 2018)

Call Hogan Seed for your elite cultivars. Great people and half the price of SSS. Blue and Gold tag varieties available. Ford seed also has Mazama at 4 bucks per pound. Shop around and save some loot.


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Slingblade_847 Well, the concept of going with more than 3 grass varieties has now been drilled even more into my mind after doing some calling around to seed suppliers. It sounds like, going forward, only one of my original varieties will be available for certain, plus the second version of one of the others. So, two of the original five in my case...one each of both species in the mix.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@Wolverine - Thank you for the Hogan referral! Holy S**T - you were not joking! 1/2 price from SSS?? At least. Custom blends as well, with a cost per pound, not 10lb increments. Also, the gentleman i talked to had several tips and was very knowledgeable.

@Green - thanks again for the follow up on what to consider. Hopefully my varieties will continue to be available in the years to come. But i see your point. The more, the better chances moving forward. Who do you use for seed supplier? I guess based on the YouTube channels, i thought SSS was best in business. Then i thought - probably because they get FREE seed - lol. Also, my conversation with Hogan seed led me to some compelling questions that you and i have covered previously re: 80/20 KBG/PRG mixes (mostly you providing, and me listening - lol). Going to get a new topic on the subject in the Cool Season discussion.


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

I use whoever I can...whoever has what I'm looking for. As you've seen, it's a lot of calling, talking, asking them things, etc. That includes Hogan. I have had 45 min long conversations with them in the Winter. I purchased from them back in March or April, and have since 2012, a number of times. They didn't have much in PR last year. Try United Seeds in Nebraska for that. I've never bought from SSS or Preferred Seed...too much $$$ to mail order from either to another state.

Edited to add: Yeah, hopefully. But none are grown forever. One of mine came out before I was born, so they can have long runs.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Ok, seed from Hogan is on its way. After talking with the service rep, here is my final selection:

80/20 KBG/PRG Mix

KBG:

Midnight (5lbs)
Blue Note (5lbs)
Award (5lbs)

PRG:

Sideways (10lbs)
Banfield (10lbs)

KBG and PRG will come blended but separately (i.e. Bag #1 ALL KBG - .Bag #2 ALL PRG). Will be seeding the KBG prior to the PRG. I was hesitant on the Blue Note, given it scored lower on genetic color in the NTEP, but service rep said exactly what i have heard on this forum - in that i would be hard pressed to really notice any difference in color in elite cultivars. Between the elite cultivars, they will all mix well together, and he assured me that Blue Note was a great selection, and scored highest in overall Turf quality. I guess i will see. I should have ordered a month ago. I was unaware there is a supply issue this late in season. Anyways, the seed is on its way!!!


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Not bad. Hopefully one of the Ryegrasses will be around for a while.

You have 2 Midnight types in there. There's still time to add one more class of KBG if you want, but there are no rules. Just bringing it up.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Seed received. Can't say enough about the service from Hogan.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Dead lawn walking. Put down the napalm/glyphosate earlier today. I am weary in effect, as grass is very near dormancy with Current heatwave (constant 90s)and no water/rain. Also realized I'm gonna need more than one bottle over this renovation....at least one more 32oz. Regardless, some should take, I'll start irrigation once weekly, and apply as needed over the course of the next month+, including fallowing for topsoil.


----------



## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Looks pretty green still. You should be ok with the dormancy issues. Definitely got the property line marked out. I like it! Good luck brother! I'll be renovating through you this year. LFG!


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

More on the Glypho -

#1 - the sense of relief to finally kill and have this first step over and done with was exceptional. Just a "Ok, here we go, and no turning back now a**ho*e." kind of moment.

Key points:

Didnt realize how quickly the glypho would go. The label said "21 gallons" -i thought i had a lifetime supply. Thank god i read the directions. 2.5oz per gallon/per 300 sqft - NOT 1,000 sqft.

I ended up using 27 ounces of the 32 oz bottle. Which means, according to the label - what was supposed to cover 3.2K sqft (27 oz), i applied over ~4K (~32 oz required). I really thought that i had provided an even application, but apparently missed about 5oz over the entire 4k sqft lawn (if you follow my logic there). Hoping this will still be enough for a a righteous kill, but thinking i will be ok, because the recommendation on the label was the highest recommended application.

24 hrs after application, and i BELIEVE i see it taking effect in some areas - but right now its like watching water boil in the same room im watching for the paint to dry in. Hoping for dramatic effect post 48-72 hrs, and see where i missed from having to refill so often. Im sure ill be shocked to see what i missed when i think i had such an even application.....


----------



## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

I would consider buying some spray marker dye when you are ordering more gly. If your experience is anything like mine, you will have random weeds show up all over after your lawn is dead, it will be very helpful in your spot spraying efforts.

Also I see where you have marked out your property line. What i did was use a scrap piece of cardboard from a large box to prevent over spray into my neighbors lawn and keep that line tight.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Ok. Another issue discovered. And another issue to drive me insane. I have about a 300-400 sqft section of crap soil. Decided to do some more "screwdriver testing" and the diagnosis sucks. A.) the soil is compacted, and almost a different color from the rest of my yard B.) when performing the screwdriver test, I hit several rocks about 5-7" deep. Not a bunch of big rocks, but more like seems there is gravel under there. My best guess is it's base from when they poured the driveway, as this section is right next to my driveway.

Game plan:
Rent a rear tine or hydrologic tiller and till 8-10" deep in that area. Sift all soil to separate the rocks/large debris. Bring in compost, manure, and top soil to till back in/mix with the rest of this soil.

So now I need the tiller for two jobs. One being the turning of crap soil, and the other to be to level out the areas where the soil is above sidewalk and driveway (3-5" in some areas). Because I need the tiller to do this, I'm going to try and use the tiller as my dethatcher for the rest of the yard as well, and knock down the lumps all over my yard. THEN bring in the topsoil to level things out. Ugh. Geesh. It never ends.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think you should dig the soil up first, remove the rocks by shovel and then place the soil back down and add more soil. I had 12inches of gravel by my driveway.


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

@Slingblade_847

Im in LITH and I think im going to burn my lawn down this week, I also just ordered from hogan seed today, very similar mix to yours. So Ill be following this thread. Also about the rocks, from people that owned houses in my neighborhood they said its about 6 inches of topsoil everywhere and a shit load of gravel below that.


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

Also where are you getting your soil from? im thinking of getting 2 yards of topsoil and 2 yards of mason sand from whispering hills for topdress and level before seeding.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@Di3soft

Howdy Neighbor!! I'm going to use Beans Farm I think. All their prices are online, and will do custom mixes topsoil/compost/sand whatever you want at the custom blend rate. Talked to him today actually. Only $20 delivery for being father from Hampshire. Otherwise prices include delivery. I'll check out your suggestion as well.

You happen to have a dethatcher, rear tine tiller, sod cutter, and a roller?! Lol. These are all things I may need to rent. It's adding up quickly.


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

Slingblade_847 said:


> @Di3soft
> 
> Howdy Neighbor!! I'm going to use Beans Farm I think. All their prices are online, and will do custom mixes topsoil/compost/sand whatever you want at the custom blend rate. Talked to him today actually. Only $20 delivery for being father from Hampshire. Otherwise prices include delivery. I'll check out your suggestion as well.
> 
> You happen to have a dethatcher, rear tine tiller, sod cutter, and a roller?! Lol. These are all things I may need to rent. It's adding up quickly.


thats not bad, whispering hills is 50 just for delivery ill have to look at beans farm. I don't have those unfortunately, I will need to rent a dethatcher and roller as well. luckily im only redoing the front yard so its a little cheaper. im right by lakewood and algonquin rd so im sure our soil is pretty much the same 

For rentals check out Eds Rentals they are very fair priced and right down algonquin by pyott. Rented a few times from them.


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

@Slingblade_847

Yea the costs are adding up this year haha, bought a Greensmaster 1000 and the front will be mowed short and bought a My4Sons sprayer which will be here friday( just dont tell my wife ), Had to spot kill about a dozen spots of clumping fescue so now debating if I just want to kill the whole front yard and start over

also my mix of seed from hogan is 5lbs of PHD PRG and 5lbs of Midnight, Blue Note, Award and New Glade KBG. He said put down KBG first and a few weeks later put down the PRG


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Yeah, that is my plan as well. KBG down, then PRG. We probably talked to the same service rep. Did he say "throw PRG on the concrete, spit on it, and it will germinate"? He also said that throwing the PRG on top of peat moss isn't an issue. PRG will germinate on top, find the soil, and pull itself down. In short, the seed to soil contact isn't as an issue with KBG.


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

I dont think we did, the one I talked to just talked to me about different amounts of seed per pound of KBG and PRG and when to put what down.


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Slingblade_847, one thing that'll probably be different, going from Tall Fescue with a little PR to half PR in the lawn, is that you might see worse red thread. Unless of course you had 50% PR already. But you should see an improvement in brown patch.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@Green appreciate you looking out, and I'll keep an eye out. Honestly I couldn't even tell you the % mix I have, other than 25% being KY-31!!

Currently am having a glypho predicament. Sprayed on Saturday, current state of lawn seen below. This heat wave probably ain't doing me any favors. Thinking of mowing a notch lower, and hitting it again tomorrow and up the dosage to 3.0 oz/gallon vs. the recommended 2.5. Hopefully this will give me complete kill by this Weekend. Then can start dethatch/topdress/leveling/fallow process.


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

I think you'll be ok if you water before doing anything else (assuming no rain). Mowing first will probably just force dormancy faster, and my guess is another immediate glyphosate app might just be partly wasted. But let's hear some other theories from people who have actually been in that predicament.

When did you water (or get rain) last?


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It will take a week or more to really go brown. I would bag mow now and start taking it lower. It is easier to remove the dead stuff now than once it gets really brown.

You had good coverage of the gly. I only see one spot you missed.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Well...the purchases keep piling up, but feel I am nearing the end of the procurement.

Went ahead and got a new spreader (echo RB-60). Seems incredibly sturdy compared to the crap Scotts one I had. Has the edge guard which was a must and the reasoning for a new spreader. Was happy to see this product was actually manufactured by Echo, and not just licensed by Echo (like my sprayer &#128577.

I keep buying irrigation supplies. Two sprinklers: melnor 3k sqft & Melnor 4.5k sqft (I'll be shocked if this actually does sqft indicated). And the 4 hose melnor timer. God. Wish there was 5 hose. I'm fearing one big blind spot. I have a lot of mapping ideal placement of sprinklers ahead of me.

Tenacity and propi fungicide on its way. Buying this type of stuff for the first time. Feel like I just joined a club.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Second blanket spray of glyphosate today. This time used turf mark. Paid homage to the forum while we left to get lunch, and finished when I got back Now I will undoubtedly have a complete burn and should be able to spot spray here on out.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

I keep messing with my irrigation/sprinklers, and boy am I getting frustrated. How the hell these sprinklers get away with advertising "4,500 sq ft" is beyond me. Perhaps they test them hooked up to a fire hydrant. The melnor 4500 may cover 1,500 at most. I've come to terms with going to have to water a lot of perimeter and blind spots by hand.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Over the past few days I've scalped, dethatched, and beginning to topdress. The labor of the top dressing was more than I had expected, and I expected it to be bad. Working on building some sort of drag.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Busted open the bag of KBG on 07/11 and planted some seed in this glass. Had germination as early as one week later, and here we are post 10 days of seed down in glass.


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

@Slingblade_847 I dont know if you ordered your soil yet but I found a place called JCK topsoil that is local to us and priced the same but they will do custom mixes and deliver it. Nice thing is after they mix it, they screen it three times down to 3/8th of an inch. im getting my 4 yard mix today. Figured Id let you know.


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

completely missed page 3, ignore my previous comment...


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@Di3soft 
God Bless America.....wish you would have caught me a week prior. Not very happy with the boulders that came out of the topsoil I had delivered.


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

Sorry bud, so far I only found maybe a handful rocks 1" and over 1/2"


----------



## Matthew_73 (Jul 9, 2019)

Slingblade_847 said:


> And here is the grass mix I can no longer tolerate....filled with KY-31:


I hear ya.. I have a yard most would want... But just like they say, good from far, far from good... I see 3-5 different shades of green patches of certain types of grass types... Stalky PRG... Ugh....


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@Green @Babameca @g-man

Fellas- I am having an "oh sh*t" moment. April 15th I put down prodiamine at 3lbs/ksqft with .38 active ingredient. When I started this Reno I wasn't worried because I thought I only did 1/2 of what was intended to be a split app. But as I was organizing my ferts I decided to gander at the label and realized how much I'm fact I put down. So here I am...sweating bullets. Either way I need to throw down seed and see what happens and pushing seed down to AUG 15th. Please tell me how exactly screwed I am. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Slingblade_847 
0.11oz pure prodiamine is the rate for 3 months. You put down 0.18oz/M. That's roughly 4.5 months no go. I think the label also states to leave additional 30 days pre seeding window. I would abort.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@Babameca forgive my ignorance but how do you get to the .18/m? I put down granulated. Did you convert?


----------



## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

This is the exact reason I aborted my renovation. I started a thread about it and I'm pretty confident I would've been able to get good germination by following everyone's recommendations here (just didn't want the extra work and stress).

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=20244

I know your situation is a little different than mine and it looks like you already put down your topsoil, which might make aerating a ton more work, but you do have options.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

I can't abort. I can't aerate. I've dethatched with commercial grade dethatcher and added in 1/4 of topsoil. I'm beyond the point of no return, and my wife will take me behind to woodshed if I sink any more significant money. All I can do now is hope that the epic rains we got in May was enough to push out enough pre-em for germination. This honestly makes me sick to my stomach. I consider myself somewhat an intelligent guy, and this is a bone head mistake.


----------



## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Why couldn't you still aerate? You would have to re-level the cores (which is what I was saying about the extra work) but I think it's still doable? Unless the budget is completely tapped out at this point for the rental? Which it sounds like may be the case...


----------



## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Slingblade_847 said:


> @Babameca forgive my ignorance but how do you get to the .18/m? I put down granulated. Did you convert?


48oz (3lbs) x 0.38/100=0.1824oz


----------



## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

I just looked further up your reno. I don't why would apply preM with reno in head. The only way to break the vapour barrier will be to tiller the whole thing, water, glypho again, level and then start.


----------



## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

I believe you should be okay. It may impact germination a little but the labels on these products look say do not overseed for 4 months with the 3 lbs rate you put down.

3lbs of the 0.38% Granular is the 0.50lbs/A rate. Granular labels say this is 4 months of coverage

The way I look at it is you will be 4 months to the day if you throw KBG down Aug 15. Even more time until the PRG. Also you have done plenty of work already to rough up the soil. I say go for it and just buy an extra bottle of bourbon for the nerves.


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Slingblade_847, I think you're fine. That's like the 4 month rate. Unless seed down is next week, you should be out of the woods, especially in a sunny area. It's possible humic acid might help degrade the herbicide faster, too. But now that you killed and scalped, the sunlight will do a job on it.

And with PR, you can cheat a bit with the barrier duration anyway...the seedlings are that vigorous and fast.

Bottom line: if you stick to the 8 Aug timeline, and raked beforehand and dropped and spread topsoil, it will be just fine.

By the time the KBG germinates (5-14 days or so) you'll be just fine, too.

Spray some humic, too...can't hurt anything. Peace of mind that you did one more thing that *might* help (but it'll be fine anyway).


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

@Slingblade_847 I just placed an order for the ingredients for https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&p=3002#p3002 FAS water soluble. They only do 50lbs bags of each but the price is good if you are interested I could split it with you since you are local. 20 bucks total for 25lbs of each? Other wise this will last me years haha


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@Green @gm560

Thank you for the encouragement!! I was crunching numbers myself and found I put down a 130lb/acre rate which converted to a 4 month north zone application. Given the record rain fall, unusual heat (possibly hotter than transition zone) I was banking on exactly what you have outlined.

I've been doing some heavy raking and did some dragging as well, after commercial grade dethatching. Hoping I've beat the soil up enough. Plus brought in the 5 yards to top dress.

Question. Do you have a preferred Humic product and if so, where do you purchase? I see lots of product at drastically different prices.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Current state of yard. Post dethatching, topdressing, dragging, and raking. Have been fallowing some...but now I'm full blown fallowing mode.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@Di3soft

Definitely interested. I'll private message you, or feel free to do the same.


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Humic - Kelp4less is good, especially when there are sales. But I honestly haven't been using anything. Just haven't gotten around to applying that type of stuff in a long time.

Prep looks good. Careful with that soil...hopefully it stays put.


----------



## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

@Green I know how you feel about the Humates. I did them for a few years, then stopped. I restarted this year, but they definitely don't give any immediate results. For me, that makes them a bonus application if I want to do a bit extra. When I am running out of lawn energy, they are the first to drop off the to-do list.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@bernstem @Green

Good to know fellas, and appreciate the tips. I'm trying to hit perfection, and keep adding things to my list for soil prep. I'll cross off the Humic in hopes to reduce some stress. Just seems there is a craze surrounding Humic/kelp. I'll think of adding once I have establishment.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Well with some unforeseen unfortunate events, I had to head out of town and won't be back until later Saturday afternoon. I had planned on seeding Saturday, but I guess I'll wait until Sunday.

I was able to squeeze in my last blanket spray of glyphosate. Seemed t like fallowing helped a lot. The top soil brought in a ton of these weeds, and I'm not sure what they are:





It would appear to some that I may be trying to farm these. Lots of them. Everywhere. Hope the same volume doesn't turn up when I'm bringing my grass up.


----------



## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Looks good. Better to smoke these weeds out now. Maybe even one more gly just before seed down.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

^ +1 do one more Gly.


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

@Slingblade_847 did you get a chance to try the teejet I have you? Curious on your thoughts


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@Di3soft 
Teejet worked great! Appreciate you handing that over...for free! Nice being essentially neighbors.

The one thing I regret is not having battery powered backpack which was suggested, but I had already purchased and used the pump action. I see a battery powered one in my procurement next spring.

I will do one more app of gly Saturday when I get home, after I rake and prep for seed down on Sunday. My Thursday app I just dumped 18oz of gly in 4 gallons and let it rip. Didn't have much time to be precise. I'll do better this blanket spray.


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

nice man, good prep work itll all turn out well. the weather is looking good for the next few weeks


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

and anytime you need tools or whatever just let me know I have just about everything needed, and I recently got a sunjoe and the rotary scissors


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@Di3soft

Thanks my man. How about you drop off the greens master next spring, I'll give it back sometime over next summer? Jokes. Hopefully I'll get one sooner or later. Anyway, appreciate the offer! ...you may regret it.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Ok Fellas -

Tomorrow (08/16) is the big day. Seed down damnit. Already stressed. Here is tomorrow's agenda:

Glyphosate in the early morning and then:

1,) Hard raking (get that soil loose!)
2.)Seed down damnit!
3.) Light raking (get that seed covered)
4,) Roll and roll (two directions)
5.) Tenacity .5oz/gallon
6.) Scotts DiseaseX (azoxy)
7.) Starter Fert
8.) Peat Moss
9.) Water, Water, Water. 
10.) .....will the grass to grow

@Di3soft @synergy0852 
@Green 
@bernstem

Would you change the order of anything above?


----------



## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Slingblade_847 Order looks good to me but please double check your Tenacity rate. Hoping it's just a typo and supposed to be tsp.


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

@Slingblade_847 yea tenacity is 5ml per gal not 15ml at 4oz/acre rate


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@synergy0852 
Thanks for looking out buddy, and I did do .5tsp/gallon. Geeze could you imagine it I did the 5oz?!


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Well. Epic failure today, at least it feels that way. I god the seed down, tenacity, azoxy, and starter fert, but I was beat, and didn't have enough daylight to get the peat moss done.

One huge pain was the roller I borrowed. Might as well had a built in sprinkler, as it leaked like a colander. Probably would have had better luck with a compost spreader. Made a huge mess, and wouldn't keep weight. But it was better than nothing....

So in the AM, I'll finish the peat and begin to water.


----------



## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Peat will be fine in the AM. Waiting to water won't hurt.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Well. It kicked my a$$, but I managed to get through it, and seed was down on 8/16, but couldn't get the Peat down, as I ran out of daylight. 8/17 is what I'm declaring as my seed down date, as that is when irrigation began (~3pm). When I started this, had no clue the effort it would take. Hard work has never bothered me, but it seemed that everything struggled to hit perfection. I can't recall one thing that at the end of it I thought "yep, EXACTLY how I wanted it...". The one thing I didn't plan for was the stress of it not going perfectly. My other hobby, and probably my first is wood working. I can always fix things to be perfect in woodworking. Lawn renovation? Take what you get!! But it's been a learning experience for sure. I've worked hard, and just hope to reap rewards, but only time (and water) will tell.

Here is some final days before seed down chronological order photo history:

BEFORE glypho, heavy raking, fine raking:



After steps 1-10 mentioned in previous post (i.e. gly, rake, seed, tenacity, etc.)



As it stands currently with damp soil/peat:


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

@Slingblade_847 looking good man :thumbup:


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

That's going to come in great.


----------



## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

That looks good. Nice and level.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

I've been hitting the water like crazy. My setup is oscillating sprinklers set up in 5 zones. As soon as I see peat drying up, I set them off for 10-15 minutes.

Keep checking to ensure the soil is damp, and it is. Very hard to keep up between 1-6pm. As I'm 100% sun at these times. This wind has done me no favors either.

I've also gotten in the habit of a heavy soaking around midnight. Crazy how much more efficient the same 10-15 minutes gives me with no wind with cooler temps.

I've honestly forgone the timer aspect. I just use the melnor to set the manual timer for whatever zone needs it the most. Honestly, I would have bought the device to do this alone.


----------



## BBLOCK (Jun 8, 2020)

Slingblade_847 said:


> I've been hitting the water like crazy. My setup is oscillating sprinklers set up in 5 zones. As soon as I see peat drying up, I set them off for 10-15 minutes.
> 
> Keep checking to ensure the soil is damp, and it is. Very hard to keep up between 1-6pm. As I'm 100% sun at these times. This wind has done me no favors either.
> 
> ...


are you using the melnor RainCloud? that's what I'm currently using


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@BBLOCK 
This is what I use.


----------



## BBLOCK (Jun 8, 2020)

gotchya I'm sure it's good. I went w the wifi one so I could water from my phone when I'm not home during the day. it has an app. not the best app in the world but seems to work okay.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@BBLOCK 
Luckily, I don't return to the office until JAN 3rd!! So I'm home full time. Can walk away from the computer and walk the perimeter and determine what zone needs it and when.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Seed down and watered at 3pm on 8/17. 6 days later we have germination. Very select areas currently, and only few. Excited all the same.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Well excitement was not long lived. The sections of germination are in probably all of 15-20 1"x1" sections. In theory, you would think that once you saw germination in one section, you would essentially see SOME germination in all areas. I understand that I'm only six days in, and am lucky to have germination at all. Still a level of stress associated with it. Going to try and discipline myself to only check germination areas every 24 hrs. I doubt I can stay disciplined....


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Only 1in x 1in? Hmm. Do you have more seeds?


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@g-man sorry, 1'x1' sections. I do see SOME germination in other areas, just not as dense as the 1x1 sections. And the majority I'd say >99% has no germination at all. I've got 6.5# left for 3.5k sqft if needed. My thought is I'm pretty early in germination phase, so hold out another week before panic mode.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

I got a little ingenuity while waiting for grass to grow.

Built and staked in some hose guides:



Built some hose holders out of some wire I had laying around:



Screwed a large hook into an 8' piece of quarter round, so I no longer have to walk on the lawn for sprinkler placement. Previously had to walk out for a sprinkler that had to be flip flopped. No more!


----------



## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Slingblade_847 said:


> Well with some unforeseen unfortunate events, I had to head out of town and won't be back until later Saturday afternoon. I had planned on seeding Saturday, but I guess I'll wait until Sunday.
> 
> I was able to squeeze in my last blanket spray of glyphosate. Seemed t like fallowing helped a lot. The top soil brought in a ton of these weeds, and I'm not sure what they are:
> 
> ...


I think these might have been cucumbers. I had them everywhere this year because I evidently made the mistake of putting a cucumber in the compost bin at some point or another. I spread the compost in my flower beds in spring and I was fighting them all season long. A few got to be pretty significant in size bc I got lazy.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@synergy0852, @Di3soft and anyone else reading this journal with experience....

First day of germination...hurray!!!, but wait....why isn't it anywhere else? Second day, and every day after it appears to double and spread at the same rate, and if it keeps up at this rate, I should have a fully germinated lawn in a week!

However, I am still noticing some bare spots with nothing (8 days after seed down).

I'm curious as to know if you have shared this same experience, albeit I'm only 8 days after seed down, and if the bare spots you noticed at the dawn of germination ever actually filled in?


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

I did notice some of them start to fill in more. But I also threw down an extra pound of KBG and then a week later the full prg seed. So my results are a little different


----------



## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

I was/am still getting minor new germination at 21 days after starting to water the seed. Give it some more time. Maybe another week and throw down some more seed if you still don't see anything.

FWIW one thing I noticed was my wettest areas were slower to germinate than the areas that dried out faster forcing me to water which led to the wet spots being even more wet.


----------



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

+1 KBG seed can take up to 3 weeks. You seeded 1 day before me. The vast majority of my lawn is not germ'd yet. I expect to see the most activity this coming week. I had a washout yesterday (not sure how much seed was lost, but lots of peat), so I'm probably going to look into re-seeding a little earlier than I wanted to (2-2.5 weeks after seed down). If it wasn't for that, I'd be waiting out the 3 weeks.

Don't introduce any new seed yet. From what I can see you are in great shape. Lots of green from far away. And what's there should start spreading faster if you put down N.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

So here I am, 10 days after seed down. Every morning feels like Xmas morning seeing the amount of new germination. I suspect that to subside in the very near future, as anything that will germinate is close to doing so.

We have big storms in our forecast.

@g-man @Green 
@bernstem

Do you think I'm in the clear on washout, or still at high risk? When is germinated grass babies rooted enough to avoid most washout?


----------



## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

I think you are OK. If you do have any, you will be able to see it since you have germination. Not much you can do about it at this point.


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Yeah, it'll take at least a few more days to tell for sure if there are gaps appearing. Any heavy rain could take un-germinated seed with it. It probably won't take the germinated seed, unless the soil is loose, which I don't think it is based on your prep work.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Ok, here I am at 11 days after seed down. Honestly I'm thrilled with my results so far, especially with the largest plot of front yard. I do have a few bare spots in the smaller section. Supposed to have some significant weather today, so hoping my grass babies don't wash out. How discouraging that would be. After storms, I'm going to introduce more KBG seed to my bare areas, and re-cover with peat. Seems the bare areas are where some peat washed away with irrigation. These spots are rather limited. I will wait another 10 days after new seed to determine PRG needs, and what I may or may not put down.

Large Plot:


Smaller Plot with more bare spots:


Up close of bare spot example:


----------



## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Looking good man! Glad you've gotten a lot germination. I know you were worried for a bit. Just checked out your radar and it looks like you're sitting pretty good weather wise. A lot of the big storms stayed north.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@jrubb42 , my man!

Thanks. Yeah, I'm pretty happy this far. I've been following your journal as well. Quite impressive and looking forward the the results of test plots.


----------



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Filling in nicely! Hope the storms stayed away. You've seen my journal so you know freshly germinated grass is very susceptible to washout, at least in my soil.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Here I am at 12 days after seed down. New germination coming daily, but has definitely slowed down the past two days. I have put some more seed down on large bare areas along with some peat. Going to give it another week before I decide how and how much to introduce more seed. I'm thinking .5lb KBG/ksqft & 1.5lb PRG/ksqft applied as an overseeding.

FRONT LAWN:



SIDE FRONT:



HELL STRIP 1:



HELL STRIP 2:


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Alright. These jack a**es over on this "2020 Cool Season Reno Forum" thread, specifically @JerseyGreens , @bf7 , and @Carlson have all convinced me to go 100%KBG.

However, I will be continuing to evaluate, and I've got 20lbs of PRG on standby.....juuuuussst in case.

EDIT: NOT monostand, just 100%KBG.


----------



## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

KBG all the way. Don't you dare put in that sissy grass. You have more than enough germination with the KBG you have happening!


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Slingblade_847 said:


> ...have all convinced me to go monostrand.
> 
> However, I will be continuing to evaluate, and I've got 20lbs of PRG on standby.....juuuuussst in case.


So confused...
What did you seed with already?


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@Green 
Guessing you are confused on me saying "monostrand" when you saw me put down 3 varieties of KBG (midnight/blue note/award). Honestly I am a bit confused on this myself.

I get these emails from the LCN for buying product from Yard Mastery. After I had followed everything told to me here and after my seed down, he released his seeding guide. In that guide, he explained "monostrand" as a single variety (i.e. KBG, PGR, TTTF). Then someone on the other forum told me to "stick with a mono".

Anyway, based on your comment, I think I got it wrong. Monostrand is a single CULTIVAR vs. VARIETY.

Correct? If so, I'll edit the above post.

I trust more on this forum then the emails I receive from LCN, but still like to read.


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

I think monostrand refers to a single cultivar, but you puts down a blend of ***. I could be wrong :bd:


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Monostand is when you only use one cultivar (eg. Bewitched, blue note, award, midnight). The next is a kbg blend. Monostand must be a new term from LCN.

In regards to sissygrass. I would leave it out. You can always add it later if you want.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Well. Since my whole debacle of watering everything with my sprinkler setup (car, neighbors car, windows, patio furniture, deck, etc.) I've turned to hand watering. Honestly I have found it enjoyable, and amazed with the efficiency vs the oscillating sprinklers. Takes me about 5 minutes per zone, and has given me much more control on dryer/wetter areas. I can hit 100% of my lawn from perimeter without stepping foot on grass. Now I have around 71 sprinklers I won't be using (exaggerating).


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Curious what people's thoughts are if I need to try and drop more seed. My worst areas:

PHOTO A:



PHOTO B:


PHOTO C:


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

g-man said:


> Monostand is when you only use one cultivar (eg. Bewitched, blue note, award, midnight). The next is a kbg blend. Monostand must be a new term from LCN.
> 
> In regards to sissygrass. I would leave it out. You can always add it later if you want.


@Green @g-man 
Thanks for setting me straight


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Well its been a moment since I've updated with any progress photos. About 4-5 days ago I just threw some seed around the yard in bare spots. Then we had epic rains. I see hardly any germination from that seed, but I'm done throwing more seed this season, and no plans of adding PRG.

So here I am, 25 days from seed down, and 18 DAG:


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

You'll be mowing soon. And then fertilizing. Success!

Also, re: PRG...I never really heard of the cultivars they sold you. I think you can pretty much guarantee that one or more of the KBG cultivars will be available for years to come, should you need to kill, redo sections, have damage, etc.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You don't need more seeds. Feed it some N and it should spread this year.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Alright. It's been a minute since I've updated anything on here. And truth be told I've been behind the ball. Today marks 26 DAG, and it's the first time I've applied any fert since seed down.

I applied 3lb/k of XSTART (8-24-4), mixed with equal parts 3lb/k of Menards Natural (4-3-0). The combined ferts gave me 6.5% fast release and 1.5% slow. This equals .39lb/k - slightly above the recommended .25 and hoping for no burning on the younger grass In pout or just coming out. Also hoping 1.6lb/k of P won't be an issue.

Have also had some watering issues. How an oscillating sprinkler is more efficient then a hose, I'm still trying to wrap my head around, but based on looking at the grass, it's apparent the oscillating is putting down more water. Anyways....I'm figuring it out.

From a distance the main grandstand of my lawn is looking like a lawn. I will get some up close shots after I mow tomorrow.


----------



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

This is looking super dark already. Not sure if it's color response from the fert or KBG getting more mature or the lighting from your previous pics, but I'm very impressed. It certainly appears you nailed this reno despite your watering challenges. Us above ground folks have our work cut out for us!


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Here I am officially at 28DAG. Have only applied one fert app, and have mowed three times. Current height is at 1-1/4".

Photos start with my worst areas. Full sun and not trying to cover up anything with the dusk photos. I imagine this won't fill in by end of this season, but I have hope by end of next spring.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Got a 4th mowing in. More N to be dropped Friday or Saturday (09/25-09/26). Going to mix urea in with some milo for even application. Also going to buy Humic/Fulvic/Kelp blend from kelp4less. I've heard mixed things on applying this stuff, but for $20/lb should give me plenty to mix up a concentrate and apply via hose end sprayer. Gives me something else to do as I am growing bored. I wouldn't pay the astronomical costs for the jugs on yard mastery.

Also, I am skipping the tenacity app. My weed pressure is incredibly low. Perhaps one broadleaf in every 10'x10' area. I am getting some KY31 that keeps coming up, and it's annoying. Thought it may have been goose grass, but it's the KY31 coming back to say "I'm still here m-effer...". Perhaps I'll keep trying to pull it or paint it with glypho come spring.

Also, it's hard to pick up in the photos, but I can see some of the grass maturing into a darker color. A few weeks ago my lawn looked radioactive compared to all the dormant yards around me. Hoping it keeps transforming into deeper greens. I can't pick out the different cultivars, and have no clue how I'd identify.

In this photo the sun just went down over the neighbors house, which makes for even lighting, but it is a "glamour shot".


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Well this went over real well with the wifey. I was expecting the bill to be high....but good lord! I guess it's what I get for renovating in 95+ degree droughts.


----------



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Slingblade_847 said:


> Well this went over real well with the wifey. I was expecting the bill to be high....but good lord! I guess it's what I get for renovating in 95+ degree droughts.


Haha I was pleasantly surprised by mine. $241 for the period 6/9 - 9/11. I had budgeted up to $1k for the summer / fall. Regardless I will not be showing anything to the wife. Hopefully yours at least covers a quarter and not a month.

Don't get me wrong, I despise washouts, but at least they bring this number down a wee bit.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

bf7 said:


> Slingblade_847 said:
> 
> 
> > Well this went over real well with the wifey. I was expecting the bill to be high....but good lord! I guess it's what I get for renovating in 95+ degree droughts.
> ...


Oh. This was a ONE month period. Apparently the village charges triple the rates if 20k gallons is exceeded. I called to negotiate. TBD.


----------



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

OUCH. I used 36k gallons over the 3 months but I would say 90% of it was in the last month.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Dropped .5lbs of 46-0-0 urea/ksqft mixed with 4lbs Menards Natural (poor man milo)/ksqft.

Analysis on N in this mix is as follows:

.23lb Urea
.14 slow release natural N
.002 water soluble N
------------
TOTAL N: .372lbs/ksqft

This may seem high, but given .142 is slow release, I'm not worried. Was easier to use the Menards filler vs. tank mixing and then watering.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

And I mowed again today (5th mowing total)before throwing down the fert. Here we are in full sun, 39 days from seed down/32DAG:


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

That looks awesome dude!


----------



## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

Looking good! Sucks aboit the water bill. Its a necessary evil to have a nice lawn.

Cool to have some local neighbors to compare progress with!


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Well eff me. Just when I thought things were going great and I was in the home stretch, I think I've got some fungal issues.

@Green 
@bernstem 
@Di3soft 
@jrubb42

Callin in you boys for your valued opinion. My best guess is rust or dollar spot. I have propi on hand and thinking of hitting it with 2oz/ksqft.

From a distance, you can see various shades of green. I thought it was the lawn maturing and turning a deeper color. Now I think it may also be some fungus creeping in. I imagine it's a mix of both. The youngest grass really seems to be suffering. My other thought is it could be localized burn from urea? Not sure, hope you all have some insight.

Here is far out shot showing different variations of green:



Here are some close ups:


----------



## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

I noticed a little bit of leaf spot, but not a lot. Azoxy usually works best for leaf spot but propi will do if that's all you have. I'd experiment by dropping some urea in a small controlled yellow area also. It could suffering from chlorosis from too much water and not enough nitrogen. It's hard to get even coverage with granular urea.

It definitely shouldn't be burnt with the amount of N you put down.

Doesn't look like rust to me from what I've seen. Maybe someone else has a different opinion.


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

Yea I don't really see too much fungus maybe a little melting out


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

Also may be needing more nitrogen I've seen some yelllowing before when it needed it


----------



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

The soil does look pretty wet. What's your watering schedule now?

I would put down the propi and only water in the morning if you aren't already. Surface doesn't need to be wet all the time anymore. Plenty of moisture underneath where the roots are. Keep up with your N feedings. Stronger grass will take over the yellow / lighter green / fungus infected grass.


----------



## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Probably a little fungus and a little bit of uneven nitrogen application. Apply fungicide being you have it and continue to apply nitrogen. It should be ok soon enough.


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Slingblade_847, unfortunately, it looks like it's too early to tell what disease it is, and if it'll get worse or not.

That's what the rust looked like when it first started, but that may not be rust. It took 2-3 weeks to get the traditional rust spots starting.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@Green i guess it's a good thing if too early to tell? Hit it with propi and hope for the best?

Do you all water in your propi or let it dry on leaf? Also, can you mix AS with propi? Couldn't find direct answers to these questions in researching.


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

I mix propi with urea, so yea you can mix it with AS


----------



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

My PPZ 41.8 label says it is most effective when allowed to dry before rainfall.


----------



## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

I'm not seeing anything crazy. I see some late germinating grass (likely KBG).. I see some mild disease symptoms, but nothing crazy. I would reduce watering and applying Propiconazole won't hurt. For this I would do a foliar application. Root disease is generally a summer issue, and, in the fall, even new turf should be able to outgrow root issues so I don't see a pressing need to water it in.

I would chalk up the color difference to *** vs PRG and quicker establishment of the ryegrass. Look and see if they are different species. The Ryegrass may have longer roots and access to deeper soil layer with more nutrients. If you added a layer of an inch or so of topsoil, the added soil will have a different nutrient profile and that may be contributing.

Bottom line, it is fall and the grass should be able to outgrow most anything that is affecting it.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Thanks fellas! Appreciate all the feed back I've gotten. So I applied ~1.5 oz/ksqft of propi mixed in with 2.5 lbs of 46-0-0, which gave me .32lbs N/ksqft. Was a bit conservative on the N provided I just dropped a spoon feeding on FRI. Letting it dry, but rain on its way about 4-5 hours after application.

Just to clear a few things up that people were questioning...

I had cut back on water a week or so ago. I water about once a day for a good soak. Since water bill and recommendations, will cut back to a good soaking every other day.

Also, I am 100%KBG now, given the coverage I accomplished I nixed the PRG.

Thanks again all.


----------



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Good deal. I would recommend using a rain gauge and aim for an inch per week. I don't want to discourage you from watering if you were getting the right amount. I am still watering everyday but making sure it is only morning. That way the blades are dry by the afternoon and throughout the night. The seedlings get the water they need but fungus pressure is low.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Target 0.08in per day. Temps dropped for us.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Ok, Dropped another .26N/k again today, and in between light rains. Was perfect storm and very happy with how I hit it just at the right time.

N applications to date:

09/19: .39N (XSTRT + milo)
09/25: .372 (granular Urea/milo)
09/27: .32N/k - sprayed urea with propi
10/01: .26N/k - sprayed urea

Looking at this schedule, it may seem a bit overboard, but given the amounts accounted for in the granular urea, and slow release from milo, I'm not all that concerned. I guess we will see how it starts reacting. Next feeding is scheduled next MON/TUES when the temps get back up.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Mowed for the 7th time on 10/06, and added .295N/k on 10/07.

N applications to date:

09/19: .39N (XSTRT + milo)
09/25: .372 (granular Urea/milo)
09/27: .32N/k - sprayed urea with propi
10/01: .26N/k - sprayed urea
10/07: .296N/k - sprayed urea

42 DAG:


----------



## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

Looks awesome man


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

First I've seen the grass since December 2020 after 2020 reno...


Will be waiting for it to dry up a tad, then rake, then blow. Perhaps edge.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Just pulled the trigger on a My4sons backpack sprayer. Have heard nothing but good things about these. Excited. I think I will put down something like .10lbs/k of N on the next 50+ degree day just to test and calibrate.... Should make the prodiamine app easy peasy this year, as well as everything else.

Have the Super Recycler with Honda motor on order.

Need to get the checkmate striper

Debating on lawn roller.....


----------



## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Don't bother with a lawn roller. For the minimal amount of use you will get out of it, just rent it when/if you need it. They also take up way too much space to store for the 363 days of the year when you won't use it.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

bernstem said:


> Depending how much you plan to spray in the future, you my want to consider a battery powered sprayer rather than a pump sprayer. For 2-3 times per year, the pump will be fine, but if you are planning every 2 weeks or so, you definitely should consider a battery sprayer. If you are thinking of foliar fertilization, then I would definitely go battery powered.
> 
> Those bluegrass choices are top tier. Looking forward to this.


I was browsing last years journal and came across this and laughed. I should have headed the warning. I thought I was going to need elbow replacement surgery by the end of fall last year. ...so this year I upgraded.


----------



## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Ok, closing this journal out. Here is the spring grass in March coming out of winter. Here is the 2021 Journal  Slingblade 2021 Journal


----------



## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Very nice! A battery sprayer is such a game changer, you will actually look forward to spraying.


----------

