# Rookie needing advice on Soil Sample



## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

Hey guys, new to the forum and I just got my first soil test back. I sent it to the local university but they don't go into as much detail as most of the ones I have seen. Here are my values and would appreciate any advice. Especially with pH as it appears to be high. Also, any ideas on why my magnesium levels are so high? Also, I am confused on the Potassium as they indicate I'm below optimum but other tests I've seen indicate the levels should be between 38-72 ppm. Thanks in advance.

Phosphorus (P)	2 ppm	
Potassium (K)	87 ppm	
Magnesium (Mg)	232 ppm	
Calcium (Ca)	4912 ppm
CEC	26.7 meq/100 g
Soil Type	Mineral (Clay loam)	
Soil pH	8
Lime Index	0
Organic Matter	2.6 %

P.S. I plan to get a more comprehensive test in the fall so any recommendations on a decent option would be appreciated.


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## r7k (Jan 25, 2019)

for reference here is my sample i did at UCONN, was their standard $12 test, mailed in soil sample in ziplock via usps flat rate box.

https://soiltest.uconn.edu/sampling.php

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=14140&p=223547#p223547


```
Modified Morgan

soil pH                                  4.8    (1:1 H2O)
buffered pH                              5.8    (Mod. Mehlich)
Est. Cation Exch Capacity               11.5    cmole+/100g

Base Saturation                          %  (this is not ppm)
calcium                                 14           suggested 40-50      below optimum   {649 lbs/acre}
magnesium                                6           suggested 10-30      below optimum   {154 lbs/acre}
potassium                                1           suggested   2-7      below optimum   {117 lbs/acre}
phosphorus                             -----                                    below optimum   {5 lbs/acre}

Element                                ppm      soil range in CT
boron                                     0          0.1 - 2.0
copper                                  0.2          0.3 - 0.8
iron                                   14.5          1.0 - 40.0
manganese                               2.5          3.0 - 20.0
zinc                                    1.7          0.1 - 70.0
sulfur                                 22.0        10-100
aluminum                              179.5        10-300

recommendation limestone 175 per 1000 sqft for target pH of 6.6
```
normal levels in ppm per google


```
normal ppm
phosphorus               15-50
potassium               120-510
magnesium               140-270
calcium                 700-1300
```
my thought would be to focus on using ammonium-based fertilizers from now on, which inherently have an acidifying affect. How much, I don't know, but it would move you in the right direction (unlike my lawn with low pH).


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## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

Thanks for the response. I didn't look too close to what they were testing but it is in the description. I think I'll look into some of the labs referenced on the forum in the future. Elemental sulfur seems to be the cheapest option for me to try and lower the pH so I may look into that. I guess it could take a couple years to bring it down by 1 but have to start somewhere. I read that a difference of 1 provides something like 10K more iron availability so it may be why I don't get the nice deep green color out of my fertilizer.


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## r7k (Jan 25, 2019)

for your soil pH,... I like the $7 Luster Leaf rapid test pH soil test kit. You can amazon it or find them locally.
Just the pH kit.

my soil at 4.8 pH showed orange red on the kit, likewise for other soils i did it on which I oil did a uconn soil test on and my rapidtesting jived the soil report numbers. So for what little it costs, do yours and if the rapidtest shows hard green then you can be confident you know you have high soil pH. Then you can retest yourself just the pH at your convenience and when you get into the puke color region (pH around 6) then you know you're good.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Kdog060 Can you post the actual test results? If it is MSU, it might be good enough. The values are not that meaningful without knowing the test methods.


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## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

@g-man the problem is it's not even in a .pdf format. I could just screenshot it but it's easier if I just give you the link to the report. Other than my name I don't believe their is any sensitive data. See below:

https://homesoiltest.msu.edu/your-results/code/3M854G

Also, I wanted to stay organic this year but I think I'll need to supplement with potash to hit my numbers. My plan is to use milorganite for May and June and Lawn Restore for July and finish with milorganite in August and September. My thoughts are for Nitrogen 1 lb in May followed by .5 lb in June and .5 lb in July (Lawn Restore) and 1.5 lb in both August and September. That will give me 5 lbs for the year. That will more than give my Phosphate needed but they recommend 1.3 lbs of Potassium for the year. Lawn Restore would only give me about .22 well short of the recommendation. Lastly, I'm concerned I'll need to invest in Elemental Sulfur to try and eventually get my pH down around 7 if possible. Any thoughts on that?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)




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## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

Thanks for posting that. How did you create the image? Also, do you think their recommendation on Nitrogen is a bit low? From my research on KBG it seems to be in the 5-6 lb range.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Phosphorous is very low. Potassium can be improved.

pH is high (normal for your area) and you can try elemental sulfur, but I dont think it will make the 6in of soil to change. Learn how to deal with high PH. I explained it in the soil remediation guide.

3-4lb of N/ksqft per year is more typical.

Check the soil remediation guide for products/rates to use.

Yes I just use windows Snipping Tool.


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## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

Okay it sounds like trying to lower the pH is not promising. I will look into SOP and FAS to resolve the pH and potassium issues. If you think 4lbs on nitrogen will be sufficient I'll just skip the June application and lower the August and September amounts to 1 lb. I just read somewhere you aren't supposed to put down more than 1 lb per application. Don't know why that is. My lawn has been neglected for awhile and I haven't been consistent in my fert apps. I'm now retired so I have more time to focus on the lawn.

I did pick up some Prodiamine granular and plan to put down two applications in the fall and one next spring. I've got a myriad of weed issues going on an one of them I believe is quackgrass. Fortunately it's only in a small area but I plan on waiting until later and possibly try the wiping technique with Glypho. I also picked up some Humic Acid/Kelp to try and improve the soil a bit. I know the jury is still out on it's effectiveness but I figure it's worth at least a $60 investment to see if it helps.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

I suggest you also skip the July Lawn Restore. Summer is not a good time to fertilize cool season grass. I suggest the Milorganite now if you haven't used anything this spring, then wait until mid to late August. You can use a balanced fertilizer like 10-10-10 to give you 1 lb of N, P, and K all at the same time. Then another application in September will get you all the phosphorus recommended and more than enough potassium. 3-4 lb of N a year is sufficient.


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## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

Thanks for the response. The reason I wanted to use Lawn Restore is I have no Potassium in the soil otherwise. My understanding is that is important for handling stress/drought so I thought it would be good for summer. I already put down 1 lb on Nitrogen with Milorganite. As I mentioned, I'm trying to limit the synthetic ferts as much as possible. It may be impossible due to the potassium deficiency. Any recs on a good brand. I see HD sells Hyponex 13-13-13 and Ace has Greenview 10-10-10. What about putting Lawn Restore down in June as opposed to July? I would think getting some K would be good before summer, no?


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

If you want some potassium before summer, look for Sulfate of Potassium (SOP) 0-0-50. Second choice, Muriate of Potassium (MOP) 0-0-60. If you've already applied Milorganite, you have fertilized enough for now for nitrogen. Lawn Restore looks to be 9-0-2, so it doesn't give you much potassium. You don't need any more nitrogen in June or July. The 13-13-13 or 10-10-10 are both fine. Two applications this fall would suffice for your soil test recommendations. If you find SOP or MOP, you could use that for your potassium and continue with your Milorganite for N and P.


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## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

Yeah the SOP is the problem as I can't seem to find it anywhere local and with shipping it's like $75. I didn't want to use MOP due to the chloride. Might have to rethink things. Plus, I already bought the Lawn Restore and don't want to have it sitting in my garage until next year. I may have to use it for one of my fall applications.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

If you don't want a bag of Lawn Restore in your garage, you wouldn't want a 50 lb bag of SOP hanging around for a few years (10 lb on 5000 sq ft to get 1 lb of K per 1000 sq ft). Some organic sources for potassium are kelp meal and greensand. Wood ashes have potassium. The balanced fertilizers are way more economical and won't damage anything. It's up to you.


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## Lawn Whisperer (Feb 15, 2021)

Kdog060 said:


> ... I am confused on the Potassium as they indicate I'm below optimum but other tests I've seen indicate the levels should be between 38-72 ppm...


I'm not sure of the soil test extraction method that MSU uses, but  Ridgerunner's Soil Test Thread  explains the different optimum levels for different soil test extraction methods and several optimum level from several labs or studies. 


Kdog060 said:


> ... the SOP is the problem as I can't seem to find it anywhere local and with shipping it's like $75.


Try searching or posting in your home town thread,  Michigan , regarding where to find SOP in your area.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Search for Advance Turf Solution in Michigan. If close, they sell the SOP.


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## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

@g-man I did post in the Michigan forum. In searching all the posts it seems that everyone else is having the same problem. I checked out the ATS web site but didn't see SOP as an available product. I'll try calling them to confirm.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I went to my local one today. Here are the prices and part numbers

AMS - MC10077 - 50lb - $21
MAP - MC10055 - 50lb - $28
SOP - EC1999 - 50lb - $46


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## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

@g-man Thanks I'll try calling them in the morning and see if they carry it at my local store. Have you used this product before? If so, any tips on applying related to safety? Also, are the K levels the same in all three products? I know you prefer SOP.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I mostly use these 3. They are all safe products. I use the rates i posted in the guide.

Map is for phosphorus (you need this), SOP is for potassium and AMS is for nitrogen. The main benefit of the 3 separate products is that I can choose which one to apply when. For example today I only did SOP.


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## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

g-man said:


> I mostly use these 3. They are all safe products. I use the rates i posted in the guide.
> 
> Map is for phosphorus (you need this), SOP is for potassium and AMS is for nitrogen. The main benefit of the 3 separate products is that I can choose which one to apply when. For example today I only did SOP.


 I think I'll get the phosphorus with my other fert apps but will definitely look into it. By my calculations two more applications of Milorganite at 1 lb Nitrogen should give me a total of 10.2 lbs of P for 5000 sq ft. Which should give me just over 2 lbs per 1000. Unless my math is off. I take it you just use these products for ferts. What is the percentage of each of these?


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## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

@g-man One last question on the SOP. What spreader setting did you find that worked for applying?


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## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

Virginiagal said:


> If you've already applied Milorganite, you have fertilized enough for now for nitrogen.


 I'm confused. By the recommendations below they are saying to apply .5 lb in June or July and then another 1 lb in August and September. I've only applied 1 lb so far in April so why would I not want to apply the .5 lb this spring? I would only be putting 3 lbs total for the year if I don't.



http://imgur.com/quhGSX9


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

I can't find any U Michigan articles on when to fertilize. I think the soil test times are wrong. July is a terrible time to fertilize with nitrogen. Call the lab and talk to them about it, Here's a Perdue article explaining best times to fertilize cool season grass:
https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ay/ay-22-w.pdf


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## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

Virginiagal said:


> I can't find any U Michigan articles on when to fertilize. I think the soil test times are wrong. July is a terrible time to fertilize with nitrogen. Call the lab and talk to them about it, Here's a Perdue article explaining best times to fertilize cool season grass:
> https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ay/ay-22-w.pdf


 Well disregarding July what about June? How else could I get the recommended 4 lbs of Nitrogen in a year if I don't have a 2nd application in the spring? I've heard you should do 1/3 of the total in spring and 2/3 in the fall. If 4 lbs is the goal I should be putting down at least 1.3 in the spring and 2.7 in the fall. I thought 1.5 in spring and 2.5 in the fall would be a good strategy. What are your recommended application dates and quantities for the year?

P.S. The soil study was done at MSU the agricultural university in the state.

Even if I follow the medium recommendation from Purdue I still need a second application in the spring. I've only put down 1 lb so far in mid April. My thought was another .5 by mid June and then 1 lb in September and October and possibly .5 in November but it could be snowing by then in Michigan. I would have 3.5 lbs at the least.
[media]https://imgur.com/a/KE0sfP2[/media]


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I don't use spreader settings. Weight the amount you need for your lawn sqft and apply that amount using the smallest setting that will flow. Try to go in multiple directions.

Nitrogen 3-4lb is just a guideline. Feed the lawn to maintain a healthy grow of 1-1.5in/week. Some years, 2lb will do. Others might need more.


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## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

g-man said:


> Nitrogen 3-4lb is just a guideline. Feed the lawn to maintain a healthy grow of 1-1.5in/week. Some years, 2lb will do. Others might need more.


 Well I need to have a plan to start. My lawn has been neglected for awhile so I doubt it's getting too much Nitrogen. I get you might have to change the ratios and amounts year to year but I would like to have at least a plan for this year and I can reevaluate next year. Are you saying another .5 lb before summer would be a bad thing or a waste of money? If so, it sounds like my only option is 1 lb in September and October as I can't count on November here. I'm also confused by the "no more than 1 lb rule". Is that because of potential burn or just that the lawn can't process it? Since I'm using Milorganite I don't think that burn would be a concern. Any feedback is welcome as I'm still learning. I have inground sprinklers and a Rachio controller so irrigation is not an issue. I'm also retired so cutting 2-3 times a week is no problem either.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Do the 1/2 lb in June if you like. Then a lb in late August/early Sept., a lb in late September/early October, and maybe a lb in late October/early November. If you think your grass is sluggish or the color is off and needs a boost from some nitrogen, it's ok to fertilize. Fall is the time to push growth. In spring the grass naturally has a growth spurt, without fertilizer. If you push it In the spring, you can deplete the carbohydrate reserves (they're going to top growth, not to roots) which is a bad thing right before the stress of summer. In summer cool season grass has a hard time doing photosynthesis and it's best not to push it to grow. Let it be and water when it needs it. Too much nitrogen in the spring can also contribute to fungal issues. When the weather turns cold in the fall, the microbes slow down and Milorganite needs those microbes to be active to provide nitrogen. You might consider a synthetic for the October, November fertilizations.


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## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

Thanks for the advice. I read the Turf grass Utilization Guide from Penn State and found this passage.

If late fall fertilizer applications are not made, a moderate amount of fertilizer may be desirable in early spring. Typically, rates of 0.5 to 0.75 pound of nitrogen per 1,000 square feet allow early spring green-up of lawns without excessive foliar growth. Since 0.5 pound of nitrogen per 1,000 square feet does not supply enough nitrogen to carry the turf through the summer months, a late spring application is probably needed. A late spring application can be made in late May or early June; rates can vary from 0.75 to 1 lb. *Fertilizer containing slow-release nitrogen is desirable at this time of year because it can supply limited amounts of nitrogen to turf in early to midsummer.*

I also went back and calculated the amount of Nitrogen I put down in late April and discovered I only put down .75 lbs. My plan is to throw down the Lawn Restore (1 bag) in early June which will give me another .45 lb so I'll end up with about 1.2 lbs for the spring. That should suffice until late summer/early fall and I can put down another 2 lbs. Considering I didn't put any fert down late fall last season it sounds like it should be a good strategy.


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## robjak (Mar 31, 2020)

"A late spring application can be made in late May or early June; rates can vary from 0.75 to 1 lb"

I would add that this is weather dependent. Most years in Northern Pennsylvania, an Late May /Early June feeding would be advisable as grass grows good through June. But this year is hot and dry. Mostly likely will skip this year.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Sounds like you have a plan. If you leave your clippings on the lawn when you mow, they provide organic fertilization too.


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## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

Virginiagal said:


> When the weather turns cold in the fall, the microbes slow down and Milorganite needs those microbes to be active to provide nitrogen. You might consider a synthetic for the October, November fertilizations.


 Any recommendations for the fall synthetic applications? I have all the local places as well as a Site One in my area.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Any balanced fertilizer, like the ones you referenced earlier, will give you P and K. The Milorganite is giving you P. Do your calculations and once you've met the P and K needed for the year, you can go with just N. Maybe you'd even want to join in the annual fall Nitrogen Blitz party. I think they mainly use urea. Ammonium sulfate is the most acidic of the nitrogen fertilizers so you would probably want that instead to help lower pH a bit.


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## Kdog060 (May 19, 2021)

Virginiagal said:


> Ammonium sulfate is the most acidic of the nitrogen fertilizers so you would probably want that instead to help lower pH a bit.


I thought I read somewhere that the sulfur in this is not the one that would help lower pH or am I confusing this with something else? If not, that sounds like a good idea. Is this cheaper than urea? I've just about given up on lowering the pH as the consensus is it would be a waste of time.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Elemental sulfur lowers pH. The fertilizers have sulfur in sulfate form which does not affect pH. All nitrogen fertilizers are somewhat acidic. They won't make a big difference in pH. I haven't priced them. You can check around at wherever you buy supplies.


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