# Reel Question?



## nagol (Mar 22, 2017)

With the wealth of knowledge on this forum, I hope to get a lot of feedback on this question.

I know many of you have, had or still own many different reel mowers, and I know many people have their brands that they like. But knowing what you know now, what mower would you go with? And many factors could go into this decision. Dependability, how well it cuts, HOC, maintenance...etc.

From what I have seen, most (not all) start out with a Tru-cut, McLane and move into a greens mower of some kind. I'm just trying to get an idea for a future purchase.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I think it has a lot to do with what your HOC is going to be. If you are planning on cutting anywhere around .500" I would go with a greens mower and you can't go wrong with any of the big 3(Toro, JD or Jacobsen) or Baroness &#128512; If you plan on maintaining at or below .500" a groomer is a good option to have. Several of us here have them and the verdict is still out on how useful they really are but I think we will know for sure by the end of the season. We are still figuring out how to use them as to how low to set them and how often to use them. If I think of anything else I will be sure to add it here.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

I'd advise to skip the Tru-Cut/McLane and go straight to the good stuff. Less hassle, less money than buying in a sequence, easier to work with, heavier, more solid, etc.

Anecdotally, the shop that works on and sold me my GM1000 told me to stay away from older Jacobsens as they had lots of issues in the strength of steel, cracks, and other problems. He made a lot of money working on them. He said the newer ones (read: expensive) are much better. On that account, I'd stick with Toro/JD, but you really can't go wrong on a homeowner level with any of the big names.

Also, finding a unit that at least has the option to add a groomer is a nice plus.


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## nagol (Mar 22, 2017)

I have read that the greens mowers are easier to work with. Why is that? Easier to find parts...


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

nagol said:


> I have read that the greens mowers are easier to work with. Why is that? Easier to find parts...


Yes, they are fairly easy to find parts for and they are designed to be worked on so they can be fixed fast and easy since at a golf course down time on equipment is not a good thing. All the adjustments are really easy to do also. Granted the HOC is not as fast and easy as on a TruCut but you don't usually adjust your HOC that often and it only take about 5 minutes to do it on a greens mower. You will need to buy an Accugage or make one yourself like in this thread HERE


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

I third that, I bought a new 27" Tru-cut was around $2k new a couple years ago because what I had would not mow some tight areas between my fence and trees and a big dog kennel my back yard. I don't plan on selling it and upgrading because it does the intended job I need it for and does ok but not like a greens mower would do.

Thing is you can find a used heavy duty commercial golf course mower of your brand choice built with much higher tolerances and heavy duty parts and optional accessories for less than new homeowner units like the tru-cuts.

My dad always told me if you buy something buy the best, you may be out a little extra money but wont be sorry in the long run when a cheaper unit fails. Not for mowers per se but This is so true these days on all the cheap stuff coming out of China, they just don't build stuff worth buying that last very long. I always research everything I buy and always try and get the best product for the intended use that i can find.. I just feel it should last longer and I will always be happy with the purchase.


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## fp_911 (Apr 10, 2017)

This was a similar question I was asking myself about two weeks ago. I kept seeing some of the regulars touting the advantages of the greens mower compared to a reel mower.

I ended up going straight from a rotary to a Toro Greensmaster 1000 greens mower. This one allows me to go up to 1 inch HOC so I thought that would be perfect and would give me the flexibility later on to lower the height if I want to. I've only used it once but am really impressed with the way it operates and the way it cuts.

If you look for a used greens mower there are some deals out there. Sure they'll be old units but as long as they're mechanically maintained then they're quite a bargain. Consider I got mine for about 7% of original list price, I'm pretty satisfied with the purchase.


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

I agree with all the posts above when comparing a new TC/Mclane to a used Greens mower.

I would, however, add that finding a used Mclane under $200 to use for a season is still a good idea! Some people don't realize how much work is required to keep a healthy lawn of any size @ or below 0.50 inches.

Spending $300-$2k on a greens mower can be a major investment based on your income level.

We have multiple members on this site with *amazing lawns* only using a simple McLane reel.

Just my $0.02


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

MrMeaner said:


> My dad always told me if you buy something buy the best, you may be out a little extra money but wont be sorry in the long run when a cheaper unit fails.


"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the cheap price is forgotten."


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

wardconnor said:


> MrMeaner said:
> 
> 
> > My dad always told me if you buy something buy the best, you may be out a little extra money but wont be sorry in the long run when a cheaper unit fails.
> ...


Yes that it Wardconner!!


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I agree with everyone above. I started with a rotary, bought a new Tru-Cut C27-H, took some time off from the lawn, and came back with a 2009 Toro Greensmaster 1000. I also have a John Deere 220E now.

The greens mowers are built better than the homeowner units (deisgned for more frequent use), I think things like reel to bedknife adjustments and backlapping are easier, and HOC settings are more infinitely adjustable (versus setting notches).

Greens mowers theoretically probably have a better cut, but like Redtenchu said, I had some of the best looking grass I've ever had when I was mowing at 3/4" with my Tru-Cut. There are just a lot of other variables that can influence turf appearance.

The biggest downside I see to a greens mower is you're buying a used piece of equipment, and there are reasons golf courses depreciate these things out and replace them. You may get one with no problems at all that was just part of a fleet that was due for replacement, or you may get one that needs some work. Most things can be fixed, but working on a mower or waiting on a part to arrive can be stressful when the grass is due for a cut.

Finally, I would give the "maneuverability" edge to the Tru-Cut. With some practice you can get really good with a greens mower, but tight spaces are probably easier with a homeowner model. The greens mowers just weren't designed for mowing close to obstructions or making tight turns inside fences, etc. But again, some practice helps here.


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## DR_GREENTHUMB (May 24, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> I think it has a lot to do with what your HOC is going to be. If you are planning on cutting anywhere around .500" I would go with a greens mower and you can't go wrong with any of the big 3(Toro, JD or Jacobsen) or Baroness 😀 If you plan on maintaining at or below .500" a groomer is a good option to have. Several of us here have them and the verdict is still out on how useful they really are but I think we will know for sure by the end of the season. We are still figuring out how to use them as to how low to set them and how often to use them. If I think of anything else I will be sure to add it here.


@Mightyquinn 
I resurrected this due to the fact that I just got a groomer and don't know how to use it. I am currently @ .46 and didn't know how often to use it, when to use it, or anything about it. It's a bladed groomer, TIA.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

DR_GREENTHUMB said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> > I think it has a lot to do with what your HOC is going to be. If you are planning on cutting anywhere around .500" I would go with a greens mower and you can't go wrong with any of the big 3(Toro, JD or Jacobsen) or Baroness 😀 If you plan on maintaining at or below .500" a groomer is a good option to have. Several of us here have them and the verdict is still out on how useful they really are but I think we will know for sure by the end of the season. We are still figuring out how to use them as to how low to set them and how often to use them. If I think of anything else I will be sure to add it here.
> ...


Why not start a new thread about it and we can discuss it there? I'm sure you are not the only one with questions :thumbup:


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## Philly_Gunner (Apr 23, 2019)

Ware said:


> I agree with everyone above. I started with a rotary, bought a new Tru-Cut C27-H, took some time off from the lawn, and came back with a 2009 Toro Greensmaster 1000. I also have a John Deere 220E now.
> 
> The greens mowers are built better than the homeowner units (deisgned for more frequent use), I think things like reel to bedknife adjustments and backlapping are easier, and HOC settings are more infinitely adjustable (versus setting notches).
> 
> ...


Sorry to quote a 3 year old post but I noticed you have a 220E. What's your overall opinion of it? I'm looking at getting one myself. It would be my first greens mower.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Philly_Gunner said:


> Sorry to quote a 3 year old post but I noticed you have a 220E. What's your overall opinion of it? I'm looking at getting one myself. It would be my first greens mower.


I no longer have it. I'm mowing with a Toro GM1600. I think @Thor865 has it now. @g-man also has one. They are nice mowers.


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## Philly_Gunner (Apr 23, 2019)

Ware said:


> Philly_Gunner said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to quote a 3 year old post but I noticed you have a 220E. What's your overall opinion of it? I'm looking at getting one myself. It would be my first greens mower.
> ...


Thanks for the tags, I'll reach out to them. Any reason you went with the 1600 instead?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Philly_Gunner said:


> ...Any reason you went with the 1600 instead?


Wide stripes are the best stripes.


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## Pamboys09 (Apr 16, 2019)

Ware said:


> Philly_Gunner said:
> 
> 
> > ...Any reason you went with the 1600 instead?
> ...


Agree, GM1600 Club!!! forever. :nod:


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## Jimefam (Jun 22, 2018)

Ware said:


> Philly_Gunner said:
> 
> 
> > ...Any reason you went with the 1600 instead?
> ...


Would you consider the swardman a comparable choice to those greensmowers for cut quality etc? Have a small front yard with lots of turns and short runs and considering selling the jake and getting an electra.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Jimefam said:


> Would you consider the swardman a comparable choice to those greensmowers for cut quality etc? Have a small front yard with lots of turns and short runs and considering selling the jake and getting an electra.


To me the Swardman mowers do not feel as durable as a greens mower, but with everything there are tradeoffs.


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## Thor865 (Mar 26, 2018)

Philly_Gunner said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with everyone above. I started with a rotary, bought a new Tru-Cut C27-H, took some time off from the lawn, and came back with a 2009 Toro Greensmaster 1000. I also have a John Deere 220E now.
> ...


I have both a 220e and 1600. Go to my 2020 lawn journal last page and I did a somewhat brief overview of both comparing and contrast


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## Jimefam (Jun 22, 2018)

Ware said:


> Jimefam said:
> 
> 
> > Would you consider the swardman a comparable choice to those greensmowers for cut quality etc? Have a small front yard with lots of turns and short runs and considering selling the jake and getting an electra.
> ...


Makes sense and I must say the 526 has been absolutely flawless since ive had it with just the normal maintenance. Maybe im just imagining how easy it would be to make tight turns and picturing me casually floating across the lawn instead of wrestling the 526 at every turn. Must say my traps have been developing nicely from all the rows i do with it. Wonder if reelrollers would rent me a demo unit for a week. Thank you for the feedback.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

I'm going to ramble abstractly about my thought process when I was shopping for my first reel mower last year.

Swardman, Tru-Cuts, Cal-Trimmers, McClanes, Allet "home" line, and so forth are all general-purpose "pro-sumer" mowers. In contrast, greens mowers are professional tools. It's a no-brainer that greens mower are a higher design and build quality that produces the finest cut possible.

We only compare these products because it's feasible to buy a used greens mower and "rehab" it for the same (or less) money as buying a new consumer mower. How much does a new John Deer 220E cost? Does it make sense to compare the design and performance of a $10K mower against a $2K mower? Frankly, I'm shocked at how good the "pro-sumer" models perform in this context.

The trade-offs of using greens mowers around the house are significant.

The first thing I noticed in videos was how darn FAST greens mowers move. I noticed the Tru-Cuts and McClanes also have this issue. I suspect it's a limitation of a gas mower drivetrain. A heavy, fast mower is more physically demanding to use around a small yard. The result is that many greens mower fanatics have lawns with sparse and/or geometric landscaping to make mowing with a fast, heavy mower feasible. While this may be due to personal preference, I also suspect there's a feedback-loop where the mower affects the landscape design.

I'm in my 50s and in good health, but I must mow slow and carefully in my front yard due to curvy hardscaping and other navigation hazards. *For this, a lighter mower offering an infinitely variable walking pace is a huge benefit.* I was really spoiled 6 years ago by my Ego mower's speed control lever. I could mow fast on the straightaways and slow to a crawl in the curves.

So I decided to get all-electric reel mower with a variable speed drive. My only choices were Allet and Swardman. Allet only offers a tiny 17" model for the European market. The recent Allet professional C34e is ludicrous price/size for most homeowners. Now if Allet ever offers a C27 e-model, they will probably get my money.

Ignoring the initual cost, the biggest downsides to Swardmans are A) it's European and B) it's a rather young company. These factors means the support chain is narrow and fragile. It can be very frustrating when things go wrong.


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## coolturf (Mar 11, 2020)

"The first thing I noticed in videos was how darn FAST greens mowers move."

I don't agree with the speed comment regarding greens mowers going too fast.

I have used a '98 John Deere 220A, a 2001 Toro Greensmaster 1000 and a 1980's Jacobsen PGM22. Every one of them would cut grass at idle, which is pretty slow. And they all turn on a dime. And all of these handle well and can hug a curvy bed line.

What greens mowers don't do well is go backwards. I have seen the McClane pushed back and forth like a manual push reel. Advantage McClane on that one.

I've never used a Swardmans, or Allet, but they look great. I love the "cartridge" concept!

Just my two cents.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

My old GM 1000 will also mow at barely above idle. It is very easy to handle at that speed even in 100 sq ft spaces or the 3 ft wide hell strips next to the street. A greens mower cannot run backwards. It cannot be pulled and pushed back and forth like a Tru Cut or McLane. But, that is not how a reel mower should be handled to get a nice finish on the grass.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> My old GM 1000 will also mow at barely above idle.


+1. I never used it much above idle. Another benefit to this is that they are very quiet when used just above idle.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I can be mowing at someone's house without having the neighbors screaming at me to shut it off at 6 PM or else getting the police called on me.


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## RCARASITI (Jul 25, 2020)

After some research it seems like the 22qa5 reel on the 2015 220e cut is pretty easy to adjust and maintain.. height adjustment is one nut that adjusts both sides..reel to bed knife the same and you can backlap with the flip of a switch. Picked it up for a steal imo.. 1200 bucks for a 2015 with under 1000 hours. Pick her up Friday and bringing straight to a dealer to get a once over.. I can say though..these commercial machines are absolute monsters..huge and heavy and built to last.. certainly a little intimidating..but like a poster said above- I Always want to go overboard with almost everything in life..so for my 5k lawn...this is no exception.


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## NClawnnut78 (May 23, 2018)

I can tell you the only John deer dealer is Revels Tractor in Fuquay in the Raleigh area and you could have gotten a rebuilt from scratch one there. they get them from golf courses all over our area and rebuild them from scratch even repaint the plastic green. rebuild motor, reel, chains and so on. However In my opinion which it may be wrong I would go with allett 20 inch modular system. Its like a swardman however they listened to the customers and now have a commercial grade Honda engine on them. They have a yard rake. If your yard is like mine and has leaves, stones, bark, sticks, nuts your reel will not like those. I own a trucut H2O and love the ability to run at slower speeds and change HOC on the fly. however its a Tank and a grease hog. Also adjusting the bedkife is a pain. I am learning backlapping is your friend with trucut. I just like Allett due to the fact its geared for more than just mowing the lawn its a multi use platform. I also own a toro prostipe 560 while I am converting my lawn from tall Fescue to Tiff Tuff bermuda. In the end its really what you want and what will work in your yard.


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## thompwa (Aug 26, 2019)

I see you're in N. Alabama. There are a good number of reel owners here and the hometown thread is active. I'm sure most people would be open to you checking out a few in the area if you reached out.

On another note, the Weeks Auction down in Moultrie Georgia is an option to buy a used greens mower. Usually happens every winter. I know a lot of folks in the area have gotten their mowers at very reasonable prices down there. Some may need a little work here and there, but you can get a good deal.


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## mad_man (Apr 15, 2020)

Greendoc said:


> My old GM 1000 will also mow at barely above idle. It is very easy to handle at that speed even in 100 sq ft spaces or the 3 ft wide hell strips next to the street. A greens mower cannot run backwards. It cannot be pulled and pushed back and forth like a Tru Cut or McLane. But, that is not how a reel mower should be handled to get a nice finish on the grass.


Looking to pick up a toro GM1000 before next season and lower the HOC to .5 in-.75 in, but I have a few questions before I make the commitment.

Considering that the Toro GM1000 is big and bulky would it be a good fit for a yard like this (1250 sq ft 25x50), where the grass runs up to the rock wall? Or would it be too big of a pain? I know with the transport axles it will limit how close I can get anyways.

I usually run my rotary along the wall (you can see my tire marks) and do my perimeter passes first as it is easy to move and get into the corners. I don't mind using a trimmer for some edge work. But, I'm worried that I may not be able to cut enough of my yard (near the rock walls or corners) with the Toro to make it worth the purchase. Unless I go about attempting to lift and move in into place every time I hit a corner. My fear is that I would be using a trimmer for a lot of my yard because of the size and weight of the Toro.

Would I be better suited with a California trimmer or something more easily manueverable?

EDIT: Don't mind the fescue and dirt patches by the house. I am attempting to get rid of it and have the Bermuda spread which is not really working for me.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

What if I told you that is how most of the lawns I use the GM 1000 on are laid out. Walled in. What I do, is make perimeter passes getting as close as I can to the walls without hitting them with the transport axles . The remainder, I trim with the rotary scissors.


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## mad_man (Apr 15, 2020)

Walled in. Perfectly put, in A LOT less words. That is the exact issue. I don't have a driveway to run off into.

Do you make a rounded pass along the perimeter? Or do you attempt to man handle the machine in the corners?

Rotary scissors my exact plan once I buy the ego trimmer. Thanks!


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I give myself 2-3 passes along the perimeter. The way I turn and handle the mower is way different as well. Cowboying the mower like how you see and hear people doing where they are turning the mower while it is moving forward at full speed is not done. I disengage the drive, tip the front up, and slowly pivot the mower on the rear roller into the next pass.


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