# Question on Melting Out in New KBG Reno



## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

I have some pretty bad spots of melting out (and powdery mildew) in my KBG blend reno. I skipped 13 days of N to not encourage the disease and put Disease Ex down at the curative rate on 02Oct. I'm wondering if I should put more Disease Ex down, switch to Propiconazole (I know it's not nearly as effective), apply some N for all the not effected grass that is hungry, or just do nothing.

Thanks in advance for any help.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Curious why you think you have melting out and powdery mildew. Looks like your low temps are in the 30's and 40's?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Do you have images ?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@g-man @tgreen Thought I had added these before. My bad.

Side Strip: PM with MO (I think)







Line goes down lawn of healthy grass on right, infected areas run throughout on the left. Runs about 13'x40'. You can kind of see the difference in color and growth in the picture. It's easy to see the difference in person.



Here is one of many areas:



Close ups of same area:





Close ups of 2 other areas:




I can get some above ground pictures tomorrow to show the bigger patches if needed. I appreciate any insight you guys can give.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Between the diseasex and the low temps, it's hard to believe that is a big disease outbreak. Have you used tenacity? In your first pic, are the neighboring healthy yards also KBG? If it's disease, you wouldn't expect to see all the straight lines.

Let's say it is disease for argument sake. Temps in the 30's and 40's are not conducive to further development so I would not do more fungicide.

You said you skipped fertilizer. Do you mean you have not put down any since seeding? If so, I would get fast release N on it now.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@tgreen I used Tenacity on seed down. I decided to wait on post germination app due to the disease pressure. The neighbor has a small amount of KBG, mostly FF and PRG. They also spend around $1000 a year on lawn care (insecticides, fertilizers, fungicides, herbicides). They just had the first baby, so haven't been mowing. I thought it was odd seeing that area in a straight line as well. Most of the others are more patchy.

Any idea what else it may be? I would not be surprised that I am wrong as I don't have much experience with diseases and am still learning from guides and folks here at TLF and extensions from Fungicide Guide. The areas I think are PM developed and spread quickly. Walking on it causes white clouds to go flying. The areas I labeled as LS/MO are light green to yellow to red to tan to dead in some areas. Lesions are dark, brown and some purple. The grass infected does not grow. No mycelium present anywhere that I have seen.

I skipped a weekly feeding. Put .28N/M urea down on 11Oct. Current 7 day soil temp at 3" is 59F. Green cast 5 day is showing 52.8.

Here are some pics showing the bigger areas and also another neighbors back that has gone red dead.

East Side - about 5 hrs sun currently. Top right is not disease, poa Annua colony.



SE side - 8+ hrs sun currently. PM in left middle with LS/MO and the 3 large light green/yellow LS/MO areas.


S Side - Full sun. Left middle is patch of yellow/red areas. Middle is larger area.


SW Side - Full sun. Patch in middle has PM and yellow wilting grass. Long stretch has PM on right side, yellow, red, and some dead throughout. Neighbor in top middle has something running through. Neighbor on right didn't get fungicide in time and has sporadic areas of rust and LS/MO, but nowhere near as bad as top.


Thanks for any and all help. Any recommendations on anything else I should be doing is also greatly appreciated.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

I wish I could give you something more definitive. If it were me, I'd probably spray propiconazole but that's only b/c I have some on hand and know it wouldn't hurt anything. I'm not sure I'd go out and buy it. I use propi for powdery mildew mainly on my dogwood trees and it is effective, if that's what it is. If it is disease then I agree with your call on powdery mildew. Not so sure about melting out.

Do you know what varieties of KBG you used? Most new cultivars rate highly on powdery mildew but there are a handful that rate very poorly, like some of the Barenbrug product and midnight.

The cool temps should take care of your problems, if they haven't already. With lows in the 30 and 40's it could also be the case that the disease is no longer active and just needs time to grow out.

I think that come spring/ early summer, you will not even remember this episode. I think your grass will be fine.

I couldn't tell if you were saying you're doing 0.25 lb/N per week, every week and just skipped one. If so, that sounds fine. If not and you've only done 0.25 since seeding then that could be part of the problem, i.e., not enough N.

Was asking about tenacity b/c the grass almost looked bleach. I agree with your decision not to spray tenacity now.

Last thing, it sounds like you've picked up a lot from your research. You made the right call with diseasex and also backing off the N in case it was disease. Like I said, wish I could give you something more definite. Maybe others will give you more info.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

My main comment, do you have a sprayer that could use azoxy in liquid vs the granular? Melting out is a tough one since it spirals out of control. Do apply some N, just don't go too high.

Check this link for other good fungicides. http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agcomm/pubs/ppa/ppa1/ppa1.pdf


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Is some of that grass white?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

tgreen said:


> Do you know what varieties of KBG you used? Most new cultivars rate highly on powdery mildew but there are a handful that rate very poorly, like some of the Barenbrug product and midnight.
> 
> I think that come spring/ early summer, you will not even remember this episode. I think your grass will be fine.


Varieties- Award, Blue Note, Everglade, Jackpot, Legend, Midnight, NuGlade, and Rugby II.

I'm glad to hear you say that 


pennstater2005 said:


> Is some of that grass white?


Yup 


g-man said:


> My main comment, do you have a sprayer that could use azoxy in liquid vs the granular? Melting out is a tough one since it spirals out of control. Do apply some N, just don't go too high.
> 
> Check this link for other good fungicides. http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agcomm/pubs/ppa/ppa1/ppa1.pdf


I have a sprayer that has had nothing but milk and water in it. Thought that the milk may work as a curative on the PM as well. Will spraying Azoxy be ok after applying granular? Thanks for the link on fungicides.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Is that due to Tenacity? (mesotrione)


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> Is that due to Tenacity? (mesotrione)


Nope. Held off on the second app. Not sure if it would be wise or even still help this late in the season. Your lawn is looking fantastic btw.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

TreyDoc said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> > Is that due to Tenacity? (mesotrione)
> ...


Is it white or is that the camera giving it the hue? Thanks by the way!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Check the label, but I think azoxy is every 14 days at curative.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> Is it white or is that the camera giving it the hue? Thanks by the way!


It's white. Makes white clouds if walking through.



g-man said:


> Check the label, but I think azoxy is every 14 days at curative.


Ok. I just wasn't sure with back to back apps and it being a high risk for resistance with LS/MO. Is it worth putting it down with cooling temps?


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

@pennstater2005 I took a couple more pictures to show the issue areas.

Closeup.


Random PM/LS/MO in yard.


Close up of plant.




Plant with PM/LS/MO


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## KoopHawk (May 28, 2019)

TreyDoc said:


> @pennstater2005 I took a couple more pictures to show the issue areas.
> 
> Closeup.


I used to get similar white discharge in my side yard that didn't receive a whole lot of sun. Typically later on in the year. I'm interested to see what the consensus is. I never really noticed any damage to the grass that you are in some of your other pictures tho.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Looks like powdery mildew. And maybe dollar spot in a few other pics.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

Just finished mowing. I think my mower got into that powder


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

TreyDoc said:


> Just finished mowing. I think my mower got into that powder


Is it improving at all?


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

If it's killing you and you're itching to do something then pick up a bottle of propiconazole and spray it. It may or may not work as powdery mildew is easier to control preventatively. I've never had an outbreak like that on my turf but have had it on dogwoods. It's basically cosmetic. It supposedly stunts growth slightly but I haven't seen it. You should be fine. Next year, you might spray the propiconazole preventatively.


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## TreyDoc (Aug 16, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> Is it improving at all?


Yup, In most places it's halfwayish gone. I did try a 50/50 milk/water mix on a small section, but I don't really notice a measurable difference.



tgreen said:


> If it's killing you and you're itching to do something then pick up a bottle of propiconazole and spray it. It may or may not work as powdery mildew is easier to control preventatively. I've never had an outbreak like that on my turf but have had it on dogwoods. It's basically cosmetic. It supposedly stunts growth slightly but I haven't seen it. You should be fine. Next year, you might spray the propiconazole preventatively.


I'm more than happy to not apply any fungicide till next year. When I was cleaning the mower, it made me think of the end of Scarface for some reason.

Thanks for your help guys.


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