# Waypoint vs soil savy



## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

So I just got my reports back from waypoint and my pH is allot lower then what soil savy has it at. My soil savy test were just back at the end of December.

Waypoint had my back pH at 4.5
Soil save had my back at 5.77

Waypoint had my front at 4.9
Soil savy had my front at 6.05









Also do you think the high phosphorus in my back yard is do to my 2 dogs pee and poop?

Any other input on my tests appreciated.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Durso81 can you describe your soil sample depth and what products you have recently apply?


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

g-man said:


> @Durso81 can you describe your soil sample depth and what products you have recently apply?


4"-5" depth. Applied 34-0-0, RGS, air 8, humic 12, 7-0-0. And last year I ran the 34-0-0 and a 25-0-11 I haven't applied anything with phosphorus in probably 2 years. I am really amazed at the difference in soil ph.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

From 0in to 4-5in or from 4in to 5in (throwing away 0-4in)? I just want to be clear because it matter with P.

I think you should ignore the soil savvy results.


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

g-man said:


> From 0in to 4-5in or from 4in to 5in (throwing away 0-4in)? I just want to be clear because it matter with P.
> 
> I think you should ignore the soil savvy results.


0 to 4-5" only threw away the very top with grass.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Ok. Your pH is low. Bermuda can handle it, but getting closer to 6.0 will be better. The way to do that is with lime. They calculated you will need 130lb/ksqft for the front and 180lb/ksqft for the back. But you should only apply it in 50lb applications every 6 months. This means that it will take a few seasons to correct this. At some point you will need to switch to a calcitic lime to avoid the mg from getting to high.

The CEC is on the low side for the front. This means your soil can't hold on to nutrients too much. You will benefit from more frequent applications and lower rates (eg. Every 2 weeks at half rate vs. once a month at full rate.)

Potassium is low. I recommend SOP (0-0-50) at 2lb/ksqft on every growing month.

Phosphorus is low on the back. Triple super phosphate (0-46-0) at 2lb/sqft/month.

For nitrogen, keep using the 34-0-0.


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

g-man said:


> Ok. Your pH is low. Bermuda can handle it, but getting closer to 6.0 will be better. The way to do that is with lime. They calculated you will need 130lb/ksqft for the front and 180lb/ksqft for the back. But you should only apply it in 50lb applications every 6 months. This means that it will take a few seasons to correct this. At some point you will need to switch to a calcitic lime to avoid the mg from getting to high.
> 
> The CEC is on the low side for the front. This means your soil can't hold on to nutrients too much. You will benefit from more frequent applications and lower rates (eg. Every 2 weeks at half rate vs. once a month at full rate.)
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the info. Yeah I was applying the 34-0-0 at .50lbs N per 1k every 2 weeks.

3 questions.

1. Is there anyway to improve soil CEC? Or is it what it is unless you replace your soil?

2. You say phosphorus is low in the back, but according to waypoint it's super high. I assume this has to do with the depth and what I included in my samples?

3 I was going to be trying carbon x this season would that be fine?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

1) organic matter will increase the cec a little. The composition of your soil is what determines your CEC. You will need to change soils to really change it. But dont worry about it, you can have a great lawn.

2) I got confused. Front could use more P.

3) yes you can use carbonx


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

g-man said:


> 1) organic matter will increase the cec a little. The composition of your soil is what determines your CEC. You will need to change soils to really change it. But dont worry about it, you can have a great lawn.
> 
> 2) I got confused. Front could use more P.
> 
> 3) yes you can use carbonx


Thanks


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

CEC is dependent on soil clay and OM content. Pound for pound OM (more accurately, humic substances: HA, FA and and humin, not just OM, which can include raw, undecomposed plant and animal tissue and it can take 2-10 years for OM to decompse int humic substance) has a much higher CEC than does clay and I wouldn't recommend adding clay to soil. It just doesn't work out well. It has been estimated that every 1% of humic substance can increase CEC by 2 meq. A soil with a CEC of 4 is capable of holding the minimum quantities of nutrients (MLSN). It no real benefit to the turf to have more nutrient stored in the soil than what the plant can use ( Caveat: see my thread and the discussion of banking sufficient nutrients to insure availability)Your CEC is estimated to be around 10 for the back and 6 for the front. Your problem is that about 50% of the CEC sites are occupied by H+ rather than nutrients. Raising pH will remove H+ and open CEC sites for nutrients to occupy. Before you run out and try to raise your CEC with humates, keep in mind that to increase soil organic substance content by 1% will take nearly 500 pounds of humate/M. However, any increase to CEC, even if small, can help improve nutrient availability in a low CEC soil and pay dividends.
Edit: I should also point out that studies have indicated that additions of greater than 20 lbs/M of HA have resulted in decreased plant performance.


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

Ridgerunner said:


> CEC is dependent on soil clay and OM content. Pound for pound OM (more accurately, humic substances: HA, FA and and humin, not just OM, which can include raw, undecomposed plant and animal tissue and it can take 2-10 years for OM to decompse int humic substance) has a much higher CEC than does clay and I wouldn't recommend adding clay to soil. It just doesn't work out well. It has been estimated that every 1% of humic substance can increase CEC by 2 meq. A soil with a CEC of 4 is capable of holding the minimum quantities of nutrients (MLSN). It no real benefit to the turf to have more nutrient stored in the soil than what the plant can use ( Caveat: see my thread and the discussion of banking sufficient nutrients to insure availability)Your CEC is estimated to be around 10 for the back and 6 for the front. Your problem is that about 50% of the CEC sites are occupied by H+ rather than nutrients. Raising pH will remove H+ and open CEC sites for nutrients to occupy. Before you run out and try to raise your CEC with humates, keep in mind that to increase soil organic substance content by 1% will take nearly 500 pounds of humate/M. However, any increase to CEC, even if small, can help improve nutrient availability in a low CEC soil and pay dividends.
> Edit: I should also point out that studies have indicated that additions of greater than 20 lbs/M of HA have resulted in decreased plant performance.


Lol should have paid attention in science 😂. I got the jist though. Not gonna fret over the CEC. Just gonna keep course work on raising the pH, apply the nutrients it needs, humic. My yard looked it's best it has last season so it can only get better. Thanks for the info on CEC.


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