# Bf7 2020 Reno - Prosperity / Moonlight SLT / Blue Velvet KBG



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

9,500 sq ft
North Pittsburgh, PA
New construction (2 years old)
No irrigation (using above ground sprinkler timers)
Previous lawn - mix of Pennington sun / shade, GCI TTTF, and Blueberry KBG
Home builder originally seeded November 2018 and very little germinated. Essentially started with bare dirt and re-seeded myself in Spring 2019.

Pics of previous lawn:
Back yard in Fall 2019 (probably the best it has ever looked)


Front yard in Summer 2019


New seed will be 33% Prosperity KBG, 33% Moonlight SLT KBG, 33% Blue Velvet KBG. I chose these cultivars because they can give off a nice blue hue at certain angles. Each cultivar also comes from a different KBG family for added disease tolerance (Prosperity - Compact America, Moonlight SLT - Compact, and Blue Velvet - Compact Midnight).











Soil test from Spring 2020:


Timeline so far:
6/13 - 10 lbs/1k sq ft all purpose fertilizer 10-10-10 & dolomitic lime
6/27 - 10 lbs/1k sq ft all purpose fertilizer 10-10-10 & dolomitic lime
6/29 - Glyphosate @ 8 oz/1k sq ft
7/7 - Scalp @ 2"
7/8 - Glyphosate @ 8 oz/1k sq ft
7/10 - Scalp @ 0.75"
7/12 - Power rake, 4 passes
7/13 - Scalp @ 0.75"
7/14 - Glyphosate @ 8 oz/1k sq ft
7/15 - Groundskeeper dethatch rake
7/16 - Scalp @ 0.75"
7/17 - 8/1 - Spread 10 yds topsoil
7/29 - Air8 / RGS / Humic 12 / MicroGreene @ 8 oz each/1k sq ft
7/30 - 10 lbs/1k sq ft all purpose fertilizer 10-10-10 & dolomitic lime

Pic of lawn after kill:


Pic of lawn today (part way through topsoil):


Future timeline:
Spread additional 10 yds topsoil
Seed down date - 8/15
Slit seeder to prep seed bed, starter fertilizer 18-24-6, seed 3 lbs/1k sq ft with drop and broadcast spreaders, roll, tenacity, top dress 15 bales peat moss, water, spoon feed N

Wish me luck.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

20 yds of topsoil is all spread (by hand, took about 3 weeks). Going to order 3 more yds to polish off certain areas.

Also doing another Air8 / RGS / Humic / MicroGreene app and a final gly this week.

Planned seed down date still next weekend (8/15).



Believe it or not, still finding gremlins like this hiding in my soil. Only a few inches of this was exposed before I dug it out.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Looks great!

Learning from experience with putting down such a thick layer of topsoil. Roll. Roll. Roll.

Have to get it compressed somehow. Want to see light footsteps when walking on it. I was sinking my shoes in after a decent rain!

Awesome seed bed right there!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> Looks great!
> 
> Learning from experience with putting down such a thick layer of topsoil. Roll. Roll. Roll.
> 
> ...


Thanks! There are a few spots I probably should be rolling. But the vast majority of lawn I get light footprints. I think I put down an average thickness of about 0.7" across the entire yard. I have been trying to press down with the landscaping rake as hard as I can when I spread.

Decent seed bed, has a lot of those little clay pebbles. I'm a little concerned about some areas that are only pebbles on top of dead scalped grass. You can see them in the pic with the giant stick.

Were you able to fix those giant donuts in your yard? That was insane by the way...


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

The pebbles should move down if you roll often. Water. Roll. Rake if you see it's uneven before rolling.

Do you plan on reel mowing?

And yes, just finished up busting my butt all weekend. Rented a small asphalt roller and got more sandy topsoil. My back isn't happy haha!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@JerseyGreens Haha a nice big scoop shovel helps so you don't have to bend over so many times.

I should have bought a roller  I am renting one on seed day, but I think I would've gotten enough use beforehand to justify a purchase. I think too late now.

Reel mowing is a possibility down the road but not within the next year. I was planning to cut at 1.5 - 2" with push mower.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Taped off and ready to seed.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Seed is down. Actually had planned to do it over the weekend but held back due to small chances of storms. As of Sunday evening it hadn't rained a drop and only 15% chance overnight. I was kicking myself for delaying the seed. Then, we got smacked with ~1 inch in about an hour overnight. Man, am I happy I waited. Those forecasts are so tough to follow.

Anyway, the rain last night made things pretty muddy today. I think it was a good for the seed falling into a moist seed bed. After I rolled it, the seed was pressed firmly in the soil, which is now fairly compacted from the wet / roll effect. I can walk in most areas now without disturbing the seed. Will be interesting to see how these ground conditions impact germination.

Also applied Tenacity at 5 oz / acre, Azoxy at low preventive rate, and started peat moss. Will finish peat tomorrow. Initial watering schedule will be 8am, 11am, 2pm, 5pm, 8pm at 7-10 min per zone (total of 10 zones).


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## stripes3 (Oct 17, 2019)

Where did you find the prosperity and blue velvet?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

stripes3 said:


> Where did you find the prosperity and blue velvet?


Prosperity - Pawnee Buttes. They had all 3 of my cultivars on their price list, but when I called in early July, this was the only one in stock. It is gold tag sod quality, $4.20 per lb + shipping. When the seed arrived the tag stated it was tested in 11/2018. I was a little put off by this at first but I've read that germination rates can actually improve after the first or second year. Making sure what I didn't use yet is properly stored.

Blue Velvet - Hogan. Was listed on their website but when I called they said it wasn't in stock and didn't even know it was listed. Apparently though they have a business relationship with DLF Pickseed where they are able to ship directly from the manufacturer to your home, so that's how I got it. It is blue tag quality (0% weed and other crop). Tested in 7/2020, interestingly. I paid $4.75 per lb + shipping.

I think shipping was around $50 for each of my cultivars. 50 lb bags of each.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

I am a little concerned about my seed bed. The surface feels hard when I walk on it, and there are no footprints. It takes considerable pressure to push my finger through it

I dropped seed on Monday about 6 hours after a heavy rain (the ground was muddy). Before seeding, I lightly raked with Groundskeeper dethatching rake. After seeding, I rolled with the roller almost all the way full. I'm afraid the roller was too heavy and overly compacted the muddy soil.

Most of the seeds are pressed firmly into the soil, which I think is the goal. However I'm not sure if the seedlings will be able to penetrate the hard surface. Yesterday I put down Air8 and RGS at the max rate.

Any other suggestions? Has anyone had good germination in these soil conditions? Pics below of some areas where the peat moss eroded away and seeds are visible.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

No experience in these conditions but keep it wet and you should be OK. Grass grows in the crack of a sidewalk so it can traverse these conditions.

I have no experience with Air8 and RGS so can't speak on that front. Plenty of folks use it on their Reno's though. Hope they chime in here.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Great point. I am increasing my irrigation frequency to every 2 hours. I'm finding every 3 hours isn't sufficient to keep everything perpetually moist in full sun.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Those pictures worry me because it looks very dry. Increase the frequency and maybe the duration too.


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

Looks like some great prep!
I would water a little more though in areas where it's dry like that. Maybe toss a little peat in those areas?


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Low and behold the same thing happens to my topsoil after a heavy rain and it dries out.

I think we ended up with soil that has a high clay content - not really good...but I'll rest my case.

Agree that adding a very light compost/peat moss combination over bare areas will help.

Outside of that the only thing you can do is just stay on top of the watering.

Is it like this everywhere?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@g-man definitely doing this. If it's only the watering, that's something I can adjust. Compaction getting in the way would concern me more. I'm a little confused because those close up pics were taken this morning right after a morning watering and an evening watering last night. Perhaps the areas without peat are drying out really fast - I will need to correct. Given I have almost 10k sq ft which is mostly full sun, I'm going to be running irrigation the majority of daylight hours.

@Zcape35 thanks. I thought my prep was good until this happened. I am picking up more peat to fill these spots. Thought 15 bales would be enough but the stuff doesn't stay put! This was a nice even coating when I first put it down, and now...



@JerseyGreens I think you are right. This is the first significant rain we've had in weeks, and it just happened to be right before my seeding. I had no idea the soil would react that way because it hadn't done that for the entire 3-4 weeks I was fallowing. It is like this everywhere...except in the small spots around my sprinklers where a little water leaks out and collects. Those areas I can push my finger through easily. Based on that, pumping out more water everywhere should solve my problems.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You likely need more than 0.15in of irrigation per day. Wind plays a big factor. Do you know how much are you watering?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

g-man said:


> You likely need more than 0.15in of irrigation per day. Wind plays a big factor. Do you know how much are you watering?


We have had a lot of wind this week - good call. I'll place my rain gauge around one of my sprinklers to see how much water I'm getting.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Whatever it takes, don't let it dry up.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I have to ask, any spots showing germ yet!?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> I have to ask, any spots showing germ yet!?


We have babies! 

Funny, I've been checking all day and didn't notice anything. I saw your post and thought, heck, I'll try one more time. Bam! This is on the north side (most shady part) of my yard.

Some of the blades are much longer than the others. Not sure if those ones are weeds?


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Congratulations!! See grass can even grow in clay soil if it's stays wet!

The longer ones are weeds. Will worry about that later.

@synergy0852 
@shadowlawnjutsu 
@bf7

Congratulations on all of you getting germination!

No pressure...all eyes on me and @OnTheLawn right behind me.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@JerseyGreens thank you!! The clay was starting to worry me but this is certainly progress. We'll see how the seedlings hold up.

This is actually part of the area where I overapplied Tenacity - apparently going a little heavy doesn't impede germination. To clarify I didn't go over 8 oz / acre but more than the 5 oz / acre I was shooting for.

Some of the grassy weeds have white tips but appears they aren't dying...hoping I don't get an infestation of something immune to Tenacity.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Heck yes! More babies!! Can't wait to see more progress and continued success here. And @JerseyGreens we're almost in the fight! Today was a bit discouraging with the crazy rain, but I'm encouraged seeing results like this.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> Heck yes! More babies!! Can't wait to see more progress and continued success here. And @JerseyGreens we're almost in the fight! Today was a bit discouraging with the crazy rain, but I'm encouraged seeing results like this.


You will be putting us KBG folks to shame this fall with your TTTF. I used the GCI blend last year for my overseed. Amazing stuff. I think Pete changed the cultivars since then, but I would buy anything with his name on it. Learned so much from that guy's videos.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@bf7 yea I just mentioned it in my journal, but my gosh am I impressed with the little I've been able to use his seed so far. The test plots I planted germinated in four days, which is impressive enough. But the plot I did in combo with the N-Ext GreenePOP is over an inch already. My first signs of germination were on Friday and it's now Sunday. Insane and incredibly impressive.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

@bf7 congratulations! Wait for a couple of days and you can see the green from a far.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> @bf7 congratulations! Wait for a couple of days and you can see the green from a far.


Thanks!! Ahhhh the wait is killing me!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Had some minor washout today, but the pain was greatly diminished after spotting the baby bluegrass.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Germination is much more widespread this morning, but mostly in the high shade and areas with more peat. Assuming they are getting the most moisture. Have to look really close to see them but they are all over the place now.





Also I'm no expert but big mushrooms growing should be a sign of good things happening in the soil, right?


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I see them. Coming up slowly.

Mushrooms are a double-edged sword. Means soil has good OM but also means you have a higher potential for fungus issues.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> I see them. Coming up slowly.
> 
> Mushrooms are a double-edged sword. Means soil has good OM but also means you have a higher potential for fungus issues.


Saw mushrooms this morning too but not that big ones. Does that mean we should take lower down the watering?


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

@bf7, Same here I noticed that there's more germination on the partially shaded area. Like the ones below the tree. But I also have a fully shaded area at the side of the house that has little to no germination at all.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Remain calm my friends. The germ rate for this early is like 20%. That's why you have to keep up with watering a full 3-4 weeks before slowing it down to get that percentage up.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> Remain calm my friends. The germ rate for this early is like 20%. That's why you have to keep up with watering a full 3-4 weeks before slowing it down to get that percentage up.


Agree! Will keep my watering schedule.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@JerseyGreens good info, thanks. To think my clay has good OM running through it, after all this obsessing over how poor it was! That area actually was a rut that I levelled and has a relatively thick layer of the topsoil I brought in. This makes me feel better. I'll just need to make sure I stay on top of my fungicide apps. Propi going down in 2-3 weeks.

@shadowlawnjutsu did you go heavier on the Mazama in the full shade section?


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

bf7 said:


> @shadowlawnjutsu did you go heavier on the Mazama in the full shade section?


No, its 50/50 mix all over. I might reseed with mazama if I have to.


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## billw (Jul 19, 2020)

Did you fix the wind issue while watering? I just switched to low angle nozzles and they are awesome.

What is your watering schedule? I have a section of lawn that gets dry like yours and I want to make sure it stays wet. Just dropped seed today!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Looking good! The weather has been crazy unpredictable the past 3 days here. Like playing the lottery with your seed down date.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@billw your seed bed looks great! The wind isn't much of an issue anymore since I changed my sprinkler setting. Before the water was coming out too light. Still changes direction slightly in high wind, but it meets my needs.

My schedule changes daily, but typically I'm doing something like 4am, 8am, 11am, 1:30pm, hand water any dry areas, 5pm, 8pm. 15 minutes per zone for full sun areas. 10 minutes per zone for sun / shade. I'm starting to get germ so I'll probably stop doing the 8pm cycle soon. Just keep it wet and make sure the peat is in place - you will have success. My back yard that is full sun is struggling to get germ, I believe because of my irrigation issues during days 1-3. Hoping the seeds didn't actually die out during that time and they are just on a slight lag.

@MJR12284 thank you! Did you drop seed yet? So many of you Jersey guys on here - I know you have been dealing with some crazy storms. In western PA it has been uncharacteristically hot for this time (85-90 degrees) with a few storms passing through. A storm hitting after you drop seed probably isn't as bad as you would expect. I think there is something about the natural water...the grass just started popping out of the ground after the heavy rain here yesterday, even in the washout areas.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Big storm came through today. This one was pretty discouraging. My peat moss is all messed up now. I'm not sure how much seed got moved around. Possibly more storms coming today and throughout this week.





It appears the germ areas are still in place. Not sure if it's common for sprouted seedlings to wash out? There are a few places where it sort of looks like they washed into a pile, but I think they may have just been underwater and laid sideways.



On a lighter note, can now see some germ areas from far away (see green haze right of tree).



It has been 8 days since seed down. Still no germ in the back yard which sits in the sun all day.

I guess nothing to do now except wait and see what comes up in the next 1.5-2 weeks. Then go at it again.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Reno worst nightmare. Deep breath - give it some time and reassess washout areas.

I do see quite a bit of soil washed out but you are how many days since seed down? A lot of that seed should have worked its way deeper into the soil by now.

The pile of germ'd seed that you see - let it dry out and try to pick one up to see what happens. Looks like they are fallen over but tough to tell from the picture.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

That's a big one! I would reseed with a very small amount of seed with that kind of washout. I'm sure a lot has germinated but it will be all over the place. 
It's not yet too late. Just patch it up and it should be fine by september.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@JerseyGreens 8 days. I hope you are right. After inspecting the whole yard, there is a decent amount of seed that washed out into piles of peat moss, but I am thinking most seed is still buried in the soil. Here's an example:



I'm basically trying to take as many handfuls as I can from these piles and flinging them around bare soil areas. I'm concerned about the bare soil drying out now, but I don't want to spread a ton more peat because there are more storms in the forecast.

@shadowlawnjutsu my issue is that a lot of the seeds are just now on the brink of germination, so I'm not really sure where I need to patch up yet. As JerseyGreens mentioned, some seeds are worked into soil and not visible - I don't want to mistake those as washout areas and throw down more seed. I think new seed would require roughing up the soil a bit and I don't want to mess up any seedings that are about to germinate. I'll probably give it at least a week or so to see where green is lacking and seed again.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

Don't worry you still have a lot of time left.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Don't worry you still have a lot of time left.


Thanks for the encouragement. This is why we start early!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@bf7 just do nothing for a few days. I think the "seeds" you notice in the peat is the seed husk that separate. Keep the areas moist and let's see what happens in a few days.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@g-man that was my plan, thank you!

Despite how scary these heavy rains are, I find a ton of germination right after they come through. Baby sprouts throughout the backyard now (not there yesterday)...I think there is something special about natural water. Just wish it didn't have to fall down all at once.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Beautiful light rain would be awesome for all of us but just not our luck.

Sounds like day 6-7 are when folks are seeing germ. I'll be on the button soon to look for germ. Oh boy!


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

Hang in there, I am in the same boat with some crazy weather blowing through. It's tough making decisions based on things you can't see and others that haven't happened yet. (My worst weather happened 3 days after seed down) so I broadcast more seed.
Just keep picturing the end result in your mind.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Zcape35 said:


> Hang in there, I am in the same boat with some crazy weather blowing through. It's tough making decisions based on things you can't see and others that haven't happened yet. (My worst weather happened 3 days after seed down) so I broadcast more seed.
> Just keep picturing the end result in your mind.


Gutsy call throwing down extra seed 3 days in - must have been a tropical storm or something serious.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Zcape35 just got up to speed on your journal. Holy cow! Yours looked like a damn swimming pool. And now you have the long awaited green fuzz! Good work. Looks like your original seed down was 2 days before me.

I'm not worried about running out of seed - I bought 150 lbs, which is 120 lbs more than I needed lol. I'm just praying I have a lawn before November or I'm going to be the laughing stock of the neighborhood.

@JerseyGreens I thought you had germ on day 3 :lol:


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

:lol: yeah I don't know what that stuff is to be honest, must be some old seed I threw down Lord knows when.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

bf7 said:


> @billw your seed bed looks great! The wind isn't much of an issue anymore since I changed my sprinkler setting. Before the water was coming out too light. Still changes direction slightly in high wind, but it meets my needs.
> 
> My schedule changes daily, but typically I'm doing something like 4am, 8am, 11am, 1:30pm, hand water any dry areas, 5pm, 8pm. 15 minutes per zone for full sun areas. 10 minutes per zone for sun / shade. I'm starting to get germ so I'll probably stop doing the 8pm cycle soon. Just keep it wet and make sure the peat is in place - you will have success. My back yard that is full sun is struggling to get germ, I believe because of my irrigation issues during days 1-3. Hoping the seeds didn't actually die out during that time and they are just on a slight lag.
> 
> @MJR12284 thank you! Did you drop seed yet? So many of you Jersey guys on here - I know you have been dealing with some crazy storms. In western PA it has been uncharacteristically hot for this time (85-90 degrees) with a few storms passing through. A storm hitting after you drop seed probably isn't as bad as you would expect. I think there is something about the natural water...the grass just started popping out of the ground after the heavy rain here yesterday, even in the washout areas.


Not just yet. My seed down date is tentatively this coming Sunday and let me tell you...I am TERRIFIED of the upcoming forecasts with all these double hurricanes and what not! I am wishing you best of luck from this most recent storm. Good news is you do still have some time to reseed if needed. I'll really be screwed if we get a huge rainfall a week or so after my seed down!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@MJR12284 good luck to you too. I don't think the actual damage will be as bad as the pics would indicate. I try to look at the bright side - the soil gets a nice soaking (I barely had to water today) and I found a lot of germination after the storm. Would it have been there anyway? Who knows...but it's a fact that I found my first green babies after a mini washout and a decent portion of backyard germ after a big washout.

I think you would still have time for a follow up seed. I mean, most people out there don't start until at least Labor Day anyway. Just gets a little riskier with each passing day.


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## Carlson (Apr 16, 2020)

Ouch on that storm! I'm worried about potential washing out this coming weekend myself - I've had fescue sprouts move in the past from tok much rain, but usually there is enough that held on that it fills in OK.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Carlson said:


> Ouch on that storm! I'm worried about potential washing out this coming weekend myself - I've had fescue sprouts move in the past from tok much rain, but usually there is enough that held on that it fills in OK.


Yeah I am pretty worried about this afternoon / evening. Another big system supposed to be moving in. So ridiculous - it hasn't rained all summer here. I am not all that concerned about seeds washing at this point. It's all my sprouts getting ripped out. I'm just now getting widespread germination.

The forecast actually says 100% chance and uses the words "heavy thunderstorms". The other day when my yard flooded the chance was like 30%.


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## Carlson (Apr 16, 2020)

I'll be sending good mojo to my south as the afternoon progresses! Hopefully the germination is dense enough that the seedlings hold.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Carlson thank you!! ray:


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Are you having trouble keeping your soil moist today?

These heavy winds are wrecking havoc over here. I might have to go out with a hose end sprayer and walk all over it to get some water in this....BRUTAL!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> Are you having trouble keeping your soil moist today?
> 
> These heavy winds are wrecking havoc over here. I might have to go out with a hose end sprayer and walk all over it to get some water in this....BRUTAL!


Lol I'm doing alright with watering. I gave it a good soaking at 3am and 8am this morning. We have the heavy wind but I think it's like 10 degrees cooler here. Most days I inevitably have to go out and hand water the poor coverage areas.

Today my only concern is the monsoon predicted to pass through in a few hours! Tomorrow and Saturday too. So many delicate newborns out there :|


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

Same stuff here, it just down poured on us with more on the way. I don't have the wind you guys are dealing with though.


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

My irrigation JUST popped on too, thankfully I can hear it from the office. (no your role bro)


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Zcape35 said:


> Same stuff here, it just down poured on us with more on the way. I don't have the wind you guys are dealing with though.


Have you noticed any germinated seedlings wash up after a storm? I never see anyone talk about that, only seed washout. The seedlings hurt even more than losing seed.


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

Like that? Haha
I got that at around the 9 day after seeding mark.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Zcape35 said:


> Like that? Haha
> I got that at around the 9 day after seeding mark.


Ugh...so awful. I'm on day 10. Thought I would be in the clear by now. I'm wondering if most of my lawn will have to come from my follow up seed once these hurricanes are over.

I also wonder if those piles of peat all over the place will screw up my levelling. I'm afraid to touch them because they have seedlings growing in them.


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

I wasn't to concerned about the peat here, I figured my greensmower would flatten it out. You'd think a roller might flatten those sections out once the grass is more established.
Or get a greens roller lol


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Well... unfortunately I was not spared from the 2nd major washout of this reno.

Again, I think most of my seed is in place but I was worried about germ'd sprout washout. I found quite a few of them on the driveway / sidewalk. I think a bunch of them that are still in the yard were pulled out as well.

Glad that I went with the upper end of 3 lbs seed / 1k, so there should be some backup baked in.

And replacing all this peat moss again will be fun. Probably won't do that for another few days since there are more storms coming.

Just really aggravating. Like, what ever happened to slow and steady rain? It doesn't exist anymore. Either 90 degrees and sunny, or this crap.


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

Such a pain, that is a nasty storm. 
I bet you still have a whole lot of good germination going on (where it's supposed to).


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Zcape35 said:


> Such a pain, that is a nasty storm.
> I bet you still have a whole lot of good germination going on (where it's supposed to).


Yeah overall we are probably still ok. The grass that has been there for a couple of days at least is still going strong. The ones that wash up most likely just germ'd very recently, so you lose that batch.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Much more damage throughout the night. Total since last evening, 1.5 inches. It was essentially 2 downpours that lasted about 15 min each. And, it's not over. Forecast is very grim the next 2 days.

Finding thousands of little grass plants that were uprooted, and a lot of times it's hard to tell what survived vs what didn't. Any germination I get from one rain is just swept away by the next rain. And these are the days my germination is apparently at it peak.

Don't know how I'm going to fix this. Please, someone make me feel better with a success story after dealing with something like this.


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

Well... the more germination you get the more added seeds will hold in place. So you may feel like your losing but you're gaining momentum. 
My last Reno had severe washout and by the end of fall I was styling.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Zcape35 said:


> Well... the more germination you get the more added seeds will hold in place. So you may feel like your losing but you're gaining momentum.
> My last Reno had severe washout and by the end of fall I was styling.


Thanks. Doing my best to keep my eyes on the end game.

When you added more seed, how did you get seed to soil contact without hurting the freshly germ'd grass? I'd be afraid to rake or roll.


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

This was last years Reno, I just broadcast it from mulch beds. 
This year I also had to add more seed, I walked on my babies and they screamed in pain. Seriously though, I just walked on them and a broadcast with a hand spreader. No rolling or raking. I'm sure germ rates will be a bit lower but oh well. I would wait until the big storms pass you by though.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Absolute destruction. Another inch of rain in a matter of 30 minutes, and it's still far from over. I'm on day 11 after seed down. I'm estimating that 50-75% of what has germinated now has been yanked out of the ground or matted down / underwater to the point where it won't recover.

I'm starting to think I will need to re-seed the entire yard, and I don't want to wait too long. Probably going to drop a second round (maybe 1-2 lbs per 1k) of seed this Sunday after the storms have passed. Can anyone convince me that this is a bad idea?



This was one of my better looking areas and now it is basically toast. Most of my grass looks like this



Close up


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I wish there was something I could other then ask you to take a deep breath and reassess in a few days.

At a minimum get prepared to throw down more seed once the rainy weekend is over.

I'm screwing more peat moss and raking anything up. Throwing it down right on top and Living on a prayer.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@JerseyGreens :lol: Who's remaining calm here? I'm not the one talking about mixing in sissy grass! LOL

All jokes aside, hurricane is supposed to end tomorrow afternoon. Here is my plan of action:

Tonight - drown in my sorrows with pumpkin ales / try to take my mind off the lawn

Saturday - spend some quality time in my basement weighing out / blending some fresh seed. Mixing with Soil Moist Seed Coat this time. Possibly pick up another roller and a couple more peat bales.

Sunday - seed down! (take 2)

Highs in the 70s for the next 2 weeks. Watering on cruise control.

Maybe too early for both the re-seed and the pumpkin beer, but when life throws you a curve, you just need to man up and avoid a mud lawn at all costs.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Haha!!! Maybe it's not so sissy anymore!

I'm going to analyze the hell out of my back up options before picking one. You sir have picked a very good plan of action.

Good luck!


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@bf7 
Man, I feel for you, and I have every confidence that this will work out. Next year when the next guy with 3+ washouts is freakin out, you're going to provide the reassurance and show your lawn of the month photo.

Keep on keeping on, and your perseverance will overcome Mother Nature.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Slingblade_847 said:


> @bf7
> Man, I feel for you, and I have every confidence that this will work out. Next year when the next guy with 3+ washouts is freakin out, you're going to provide the reassurance and show your lawn of the month photo.
> 
> Keep on keeping on, and your perseverance will overcome Mother Nature.


Thank you for the encouragement man! Let me know if you know anyone accepting applications for washout of the month. Got plenty of those photos!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

The totals are in...4.5 inches of water in a little over 24 hours. It came in 5-6 waves that each lasted no more than 30 min.

Clean up time!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

haha washout of the month - I love that!!

Are you reseeding everywhere or just patches where you see absolutely nada?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> haha washout of the month - I love that!!
> 
> Are you reseeding everywhere or just patches where you see absolutely nada?


Planning to drop another 1.5 lbs / 1k everywhere, unless anyone tells me that is a horrible idea between now and tomorrow.

I'm basically declaring anything that germ'd from days 6-12 a total loss. A big portion of it died. And the stuff that survived, I'm not even sure will establish correctly or thrive after taking that beating. I'm not going to gly it or anything like that, but just assume it's not good grass anymore.

There should still be germination from the original seeding for days 13-21. That plus my 2nd seed, hopefully I will end up at a good total. Probably more than I need but a little extra in there for good measure. I'm assuming germ rate will be lower for 2nd seeding. Not raking prior but will be lightly rolling.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Where are the pictures of the lawn from today?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@g-man here are some pics from today. The green you see is deceiving though, because when you get up close, much of the grass is pulled out of the ground.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Ok, seed. If you have a roller, try to roll afterwards.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Seed down round 2.

What a beautiful day to be seeding.

You got this!


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

Get at it! I think you should be hurricane free. (fingers crossed)


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@bf7 let's get at it!! Can't wait to see how it all comes out.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Thanks guys! Sunny and high of 75 today, and similar forecast for the next couple weeks. Also woke up to some major green up in the backyard this morning. All good signs!


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Let's see the green!!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Slingblade_847 said:


> Let's see the green!!


It's still at the point where it doesn't show well in pics, but I promise it's there.

You can also see it better when it's surrounded by peat moss, but all mine washed away...


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Yep! I see the hues. Pictures never to the justice of new germination. So glad you got a head start on those areas, and not 100% wash.


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

There is hope for sure!


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## Carlson (Apr 16, 2020)

I can see the green haze setting on. A couple more days and it'll be less camera-shy for sure.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Carlson said:


> I can see the green haze setting on. A couple more days and it'll be less camera-shy for sure.


He posted a picture earlier today on the 2020 Reno page. Looking solid.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Time for progress pics. 16 days after original seed down and I'm calling it 3 DAG (widespread).

Germination is still pretty spotty but I'm no longer seeing any large areas with nothing happening.

Man, does it look good at night. Yesterday evening my fiance's parents were pulling out of our driveway. The headlights beamed across the yard and I almost jumped out of my shorts at all the tiny grass blades I saw.

More storms this week so I'm dealing with some more washout. The 1.5 lbs of seed / 1k that I dropped last weekend should help offset the major washout I had before and the smaller washout I am dealing with this week.

This weekend should be another fungicide app (propi), and more pumpkin ales.

















Yes, I meant to include this.


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

Looks like it's started to fill in, that must be a huge relief. Your In-laws must've been shocked to see you get excited and run around without pants on! :lol: 
Enjoy the beers!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Zcape35 said:


> Looks like it's started to fill in, that must be a huge relief. Your In-laws must've been shocked to see you get excited and run around without pants on! :lol:
> Enjoy the beers!


Yes sir, I hope they aren't around for my first mow!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I give you props for staying calm - mine is basically looking just like yours and I'm freaking out...

Maybe its that I have a second kid coming or what but I'm on edge haha!


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

It's getting a nice coverage now. Wait till the sun is out and you'll see how fast it changes. Congratulations!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> I give you props for staying calm - mine is basically looking just like yours and I'm freaking out...
> 
> Maybe its that I have a second kid coming or what but I'm on edge haha!


We both dealt with harsh washouts. I'm just realizing patience is paying off. I'm confident that my second seeding on Sunday will come up like my first. Follow up seed bare spots in mid-Sept. That plus some N spoon feedings to facilitate spread, should be in good shape in October.

Pretty PO'ed about the weather though. The forecast as of the weekend was a dry week with highs in the 70s. It has been nothing but t-storms hovering in the low 80s. My yard is flooding 2-3 times a day. The below is almost a live shot.

I am in a similar boat with major life events coinciding with reno...getting married in 2 weeks lol. Congrats on the little one!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> It's getting a nice coverage now. Wait till the sun is out and you'll see how fast it changes. Congratulations!


Just waiting for mine to look like yours!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> > I give you props for staying calm - mine is basically looking just like yours and I'm freaking out...
> ...


Congratulations on the upcoming wedding pal!

When did you reseed? If this is the first Tstorm since reseeding I think u are good.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@JerseyGreens re-seeded Sunday. Not the first storm. We've probably gotten 5 of these mini downpours since early yesterday. Like 0.25 inches each time lasting about 15 min. Nothing compared to the hurricanes but still can't get a break from this crap.

I'm not noticing much peat or seed washed up this time so I'm not that worried. I most likely re-seeded too heavy anyway.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Proof that KBG will germinate anywhere. I should have levelled the yard with asphalt instead of clay.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Day 18 after seed / 5 DAG. I have to say I am very impressed with the progress in the past week. Lawn was basically bare last weekend after the hurricane. Don't believe me, look at my pics from last Saturday. Anyone out there (@JerseyGreens) still concerned about bare spots - don't worry. Essentially all my germination is coming after 13 days. Still many areas that need to fill in but the strides taken this week have calmed me down quite a bit from my washout hysteria.

I went from thinking I would have a mud lawn to now being worried about overcrowding from my re-seed!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Looking proper!

If all of your major germ happened after 13 days then thats the day I'm currently on.


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

I'm glad its starting to rebound. :dancenana:


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

Wow, that's a great progress!


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## Carlson (Apr 16, 2020)

That is looking really good. Looking like you'll have full coverage in no time.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Day 24 after seed / 11 DAG. Still a lot of brand new germination happening from re-seed 11 days ago. Most spots should fill in. In the backyard there are a few low areas that get hit hard by washouts. Probably will throw a little seed at them this weekend. Hopefully the last seeding I'll have to do this year.

Applied a dose of propi and Air8 / RGS last weekend.

I think some of the early germinators will be ready for a mow this weekend. My manual reel only has 3 height settings (0.75", 2", and 2.75"), so I'm going to cut at 2". That is most likely the HOC I'll end up going with long term anyway.

In addition to annual ryegrass (I believe), getting a lot of crabgrass popping up now, especially of the smooth variety. Confused why it would take a month of fallowing / light watering + a month of aggressive watering for it to germinate, but I digress...been hand pulling as much as I can. Next Tenacity app should help smoke the crabgrass.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

:thumbup:


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## Carlson (Apr 16, 2020)

Man that color is already amazing my man.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Carlson said:


> Man that color is already amazing my man.


Thanks! It's getting there. Excited to see what some N does to it.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Day 29 after seed / 16 DAG. Temps are much cooler this week so I'm expecting growth to slow a bit. Right now it's around 40 and supposed to dip into the 30s this weekend. Adjusted irrigation schedule to 1-2 "heavy" (10-15 min) waterings in the morning and 1 "light" (5 min) watering in the afternoon.

Today I'm doing a second mow on the front / sides (might try the back too) at 2" and hand pulling more weeds.

Within 1-2 weeks should be first N spoon feeding. Fresh germination from re-seed everywhere. Most of the original seeding is out of pout and ready for urea but I don't want to burn the new little guys.

Near the end of the update pics are some areas that were hit hard by washouts and I am debating throwing more seed at. @g-man your insight would be much appreciated. I am leaning towards letting most of them go.











This overcrowded lime green spot next to the tree is really bugging me and I'm considering trying to thin it out.












And here are the thin spots.

#1

#2

#3

#4 (hard to see in pic but there are little sprouts throughout)

#5

#6

#7 (I think this is the worst because a lot of the green is weeds)


Another view of the lime green spot taken last week. This brings out the color contrast more.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Throw some seeds in those thin areas, but don't give them any special treatment, just keeping going ahead like you did not apply seeds.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

g-man said:


> Throw some seeds in those thin areas, but don't give them any special treatment, just keeping going ahead like you did not apply seeds.


Will do, thank you!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Looking stellar!

Fall wants to skip this year and go straight to Winter...need the temps to stay up so our seedlings can thicken up!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@JerseyGreens thanks! You're absolutely right. It seems like just yesterday I was battling 90+ heat and wind to keep the ground moist. Mother nature is not being kind to our renos this year. Summer to winter with a nice helping of washouts in between.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

bf7 said:


> @JerseyGreens thanks! You're absolutely right. It seems like just yesterday I was battling 90+ heat and wind to keep the ground moist. Mother nature is not being kind to our renos this year. Summer to winter with a nice helping of washouts in between.


It was literally yesterday (10 days ago) - we weathered this reno, I can't imagine how experienced we would be going into the next one.

Mother nature really throwing us curveballs and we are hanging tough!


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## Carlson (Apr 16, 2020)

I wouldn't worry about the lime green crowded spot too much - the stronger plants should outcompete the weaker ones in that spot soon enough I think.

This is getting exciting!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Carlson said:


> I wouldn't worry about the lime green crowded spot too much - the stronger plants should outcompete the weaker ones in that spot soon enough I think.
> 
> This is getting exciting!


Indeed! That seems to be the consensus - leave it alone and it will balance out with fertilization and mowing. I'll probably hit it a little harder with the fungicides too - not sure if that helps but I don't think it would hurt.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Getting ready to feed your babies?

I think my yellowing is due to N deficiency along with some water-locking between my native and topsoil.

The food should help - hope you get it down soon!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> Getting ready to feed your babies?
> 
> I think my yellowing is due to N deficiency along with some water-locking between my native and topsoil.
> 
> The food should help - hope you get it down soon!


Got it down this morning! 0.3 lbs N/1k granular.

Used the Scott's hand spreader. I loved it. I feel like I got a more even spread than I do with my Lesco 50 lb. Much more efficient than I expected.

I saw the diagram of your soil - that was excellent. I want a pull a core but I'm afraid I'll cringe when I put it next to yours.

Soon enough, we'll be talking about green instead of yellow, purple, and brown.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Definitely agree on the Scott's hand spreader. Went down nice and easy. Although a little heavy/awkward on the forearms when it's got 7.5lbs of material in it!

Pull a soil sample - seriously. I learned a lot by looking under the hood. That didn't come out like butter. The last 2 inches I was pushing hard to get as far as possible. I've used a ton of humates and compost on my native soil over the past 18 months. Sounds like you've used a good amount of Air8. You will be fine. I'd love to see it.

As far as the N. Oh man it gets to work quick. Get the popcorn ready. Come Sunday the back is going to pop!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@JerseyGreens haha alright I'll get a core and post it probably Sunday. Getting married tomorrow (I guess today now) so I won't be out in the yard.

I was wondering how quickly the N would start working. I thought the granules might take longer but I hope you're right!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

My man. Last night as a single man sitting around talking about lawn care. Hopefully with a cold one in his hand.

Congratulations and enjoy tomorrow!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> My man. Last night as a single man sitting around talking about lawn care. Hopefully with a cold one in his hand.
> 
> Congratulations and enjoy tomorrow!


 :lol: of course! Can't think of a better way to spend my last night. Thanks man!


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> > My man. Last night as a single man sitting around talking about lawn care. Hopefully with a cold one in his hand.
> ...


Congratulations @bf7! Have fun!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Thanks @shadowlawnjutsu! It was a beautiful day (couldn't have asked for better during these times), but despite being newlywed and slightly hungover, I'm already wanting to get back to work outside!


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

Congrats!!!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Zcape35 thank you!!!


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## JP900++ (Aug 24, 2018)

Congratulations!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

First day as a married man. Love you babe but my lawn is killing me. See you at dinner haha!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JP900++ said:


> Congratulations!


Thanks!!



JerseyGreens said:


> First day as a married man. Love you babe but my lawn is killing me. See you at dinner haha!


Hahaha I mean, she knew what she was signing up for. Just goes to show how lucky we are to live with people who put up with our antics. Shout out to all the significant others!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Meant to say lawn is calling you.

You might be killing the wifey but for sure she signed up for this!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Gave the front its third mow yesterday. The back is still not ready for a mow with vertical growth currently at various stages from 0-2 in. But it is filling in fairly well.

I'm pretty pleased with the dark color in all areas where seeds didn't get washed together. Those are coming in a lighter shade of green. Hoping N will help even everything out. I'm not really seeing the blue tones that these cultivars are known for yet, except when there is morning dew. I'm confident the colors will come in time.

The clippings produced by the manual reel are absolutely gorgeous. Very nice, soft texture unlike anything I've had in my previous yard. Gets me excited for the future when the lawn matures.







In the corner is the most dense area that actually has good color. It only gets a few hours of sun in the morning and shade the rest of the day.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

That color is popping!

This is game, set, match. Crushing it!


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## Carlson (Apr 16, 2020)

Looking good man - and congrats on the wedding!


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

Looking really good! Color is popping out.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

bf7 said:


> Gave the front its third mow yesterday. The back is still not ready for a mow with vertical growth currently at various stages from 0-2 in. But it is filling in fairly well.
> 
> I'm pretty pleased with the dark color in all areas where seeds didn't get washed together. Those are coming in a lighter shade of green. Hoping N will help even everything out. I'm not really seeing the blue tones that these cultivars are known for yet, except when there is morning dew. I'm confident the colors will come in time.
> 
> ...


@bf7 What kind of manual reel mower are you using?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

psider25 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > Gave the front its third mow yesterday. The back is still not ready for a mow with vertical growth currently at various stages from 0-2 in. But it is filling in fairly well.
> ...


I'm using the Great States model. Solid, well built mower. My only complaint is that it only has 3 HOCs (0.75", 2", and 2.75"). I've been mowing at 2".

Great States 815-18 18-Inch 5-Blade Push Reel Lawn Mower, Grey https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007ZK5V2/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_tSlAFbMDMNHYN


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Alright here is my 6 inch soil core @JerseyGreens

Honestly not as bad looking as I expected.

First dark layer - peat moss
First lighter layer - topsoil that I brought in
Second dark layer - I think compost the builder put down that hasn't decomposed completely
Second lighter layer - native soil

Hard for me to tell where the new grass roots end and old ones begin. The old roots it appears were reaching down at least 6" which I think is a good sign.

If anything I like that the color of the topsoil layer is similar to the native soil so we have a decent match.

I pulled the core right after watering this morning. Nothing felt overly wet or dry. However I'm not sure I'm getting enough water after switching to once per day. I ran the sprinkler for 25 min at 8am when temp was around 40, and the rain gauge only read ~0.08". I think I need to increase the duration almost double, but doing this for 8 zones means I'm going to be running irrigation for basically all morning and part of afternoon. Seems like overkill. Either my water output is super low or I failed to realize how much water almost 10k sq ft needs.



Core broken up


----------



## GrassOnTheHills (Jul 3, 2020)

bf7 said:


> psider25 said:
> 
> 
> > bf7 said:
> ...


Hopefully this is good news -- you're mistaken about the HOC settings. I've been successfully cutting at 1.5" and 1.25" during my reno with the same mower. Read the manual here and under Precise Cutting Height Adjustments on page 4 you can see what you need to do to achieve in-between HOCs. It takes a bit of playing/tinkering but it's not bad at all once you get the hang of it.


----------



## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

bf7 said:


> Alright here is my 6 inch soil core @JerseyGreens
> 
> Honestly not as bad looking as I expected.
> 
> ...


Where is all the crazy clay you are talking about? That's a good looking core man. Glad you pulled it and are making irrigation changes as warranted.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@GrassOnTheHills wow, apparently I am terrible at reading directions! This is definitely good news. I have been wanting to try cutting at 1.5". Thank you!

Sorry for the bad press, Great States. Then again, I did have another complaint - changing HOCs is a pain compared to my other mowers. That complaint still stands.


----------



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > Alright here is my 6 inch soil core @JerseyGreens
> ...


Haha I guess I needed to look under the hood. Thanks for suggesting that.

The topsoil just looks so bad on the surface once it dries out, but the grass is doing ok. I was making too many assumptions about what was underneath.


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## GrassOnTheHills (Jul 3, 2020)

bf7 said:


> @GrassOnTheHills wow, apparently I am terrible at reading directions! This is definitely good news. I have been wanting to try cutting at 1.5". Thank you!
> 
> Sorry for the bad press, Great States. Then again, I did have another complaint - changing HOCs is a pain compared to my other mowers. That complaint still stands.


Whoa, I actually just read the Precise Cutting Height Adjustments section and you do NOT need to get that complex. The 1.25" and 1.5" HOC is easily hit by just a combination of moving the roller up or down and then choosing the correct hole on the frame. I.e sometimes you need to move the roller DOWN (which would actually make it higher) but then choose a LOWER hole on the frame, and vice versa. I think at 1.25" I'm on the bottom hole of the roller but the 2nd from top hole of the frame. for 1.5" I was at the second to last (counting down) hole on the roller but the top hole of the frame (I think). So just fiddle with those 2 things and you can hit most desired HOCs I think.


----------



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

GrassOnTheHills said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > @GrassOnTheHills wow, apparently I am terrible at reading directions! This is definitely good news. I have been wanting to try cutting at 1.5". Thank you!
> ...


Ahhhhh got it. I was wondering why the roller had adjustments too. I think I set it at the middle hole on both the frame and the roller. Now I'm not even sure if I was truly cutting at 2". I will try what you did to get 1.5".

@OnTheLawn you are using the Great States mower, right? What HOC are you using and how did you set it?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Yup I'm using it. I'm not mowing the reno quite yet (first mow will likely be on Thursday on the TTTF), but I've been using it for some other areas and really like it. I currently have it at 2.5" (I'm fairly sure that's where it is, I haven't really gotten a good look yet). The kicker is that I'll be mowing the TTTF lawn and then the Mazama plot at different heights, so I'm working on finding a good combination between the two height adjustment positions that can easily be changed just by moving the roller.

So, I currently have the wheels set in the middle hole. This puts the highest setting with the roller at 2.5" and I believe the lowest setting at 1.25", but again I haven't really gotten a good look yet to be certain and I may be off on those numbers.

What I'm going to do possibly Thursday morning is run through all of the settings and make a chart. It'll take a while, but it'll be a great resource not even just for me, but here as well for everybody. So I'll set it in the top hole at the wheels and then run through each hole at the roller, then drop it to the second hole on the wheels and each at the roller, etc.

I guess it'll be nine different settings achievable with the two adjustments that can be made. I'll report back when I have the heights worked out.


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## GrassOnTheHills (Jul 3, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> Yup I'm using it. I'm not mowing the reno quite yet (first mow will likely be on Thursday on the TTTF), but I've been using it for some other areas and really like it. I currently have it at 2.5" (I'm fairly sure that's where it is, I haven't really gotten a good look yet). The kicker is that I'll be mowing the TTTF lawn and then the Mazama plot at different heights, so I'm working on finding a good combination between the two height adjustment positions that can easily be changed just by moving the roller.
> 
> So, I currently have the wheels set in the middle hole. This puts the highest setting with the roller at 2.5" and I believe the lowest setting at 1.25", but again I haven't really gotten a good look yet to be certain and I may be off on those numbers.
> 
> ...


I was literally going to do the same thing, so if you wouldn't mind tagging me when you do... I'd appreciate it


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> Yup I'm using it. I'm not mowing the reno quite yet (first mow will likely be on Thursday on the TTTF), but I've been using it for some other areas and really like it. I currently have it at 2.5" (I'm fairly sure that's where it is, I haven't really gotten a good look yet). The kicker is that I'll be mowing the TTTF lawn and then the Mazama plot at different heights, so I'm working on finding a good combination between the two height adjustment positions that can easily be changed just by moving the roller.
> 
> So, I currently have the wheels set in the middle hole. This puts the highest setting with the roller at 2.5" and I believe the lowest setting at 1.25", but again I haven't really gotten a good look yet to be certain and I may be off on those numbers.
> 
> ...


You are the man. Please tag me too wherever you post that. Thank you!!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Absolutely brotha will do! Grass is looking great by the way, very nice color popping now!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> Absolutely brotha will do! Grass is looking great by the way, very nice color popping now!


Thanks, your GCI is kicking some serious tail as well! I can't tell you had any washout now. Excellent work.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Dropped urea this morning (0.25 lbs N / k) via sprayer. Watered in immediately. I might start doing this every 5-6 days to get things moving. Winter approaching rapidly this year.


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Ding Dang, Man!! Look at this! A month ago it was washout city. Unreal recovery my man. Congrats.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Slingblade_847 said:


> Ding Dang, Man!! Look at this! A month ago it was washout city. Unreal recovery my man. Congrats.


Thanks man! Thanks to all the folks here who talked me off the ledge. I think it was you who said I could be future LOTM back when I was down in the dumps. The encouragement really made a difference in motivating me and it shows in the lawn.


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

bf7 said:


> Slingblade_847 said:
> 
> 
> > Ding Dang, Man!! Look at this! A month ago it was washout city. Unreal recovery my man. Congrats.
> ...


Ha! That was me. Now your on point for next years renovators who suffer wash out. I doubt few if any will have it to the level you experienced. I was always waiting for the "washout of the month (WOTM)" thread to open up for your nomination....and to win it unanimously. Great job brother.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Day 40 after seed / 27 DAG. Mowed at 1.5". The darkest front yard on the block is back! The fact that this can be achieved in under 6 weeks shows how much we care and how much the rest of the world doesn't :lol:





Here is the backyard "glamour shot", if you can call it that. Eh...still not mowable!


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Man! That is looking terrific @bf7 . The dark color is "mind blown" type of s**t. Keep it up, keep it up....


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Looking great man. Super dark. Good work on a successful reno!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Slingblade_847 thanks buddy! This is part where we stop regretting the reno and the neighbors start wishing they had hopped on the looney train back in July!

@jrubb42 I've seen your journal and all I have to say is #lawngoals. Coming from you this is extremely high praise!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Man, looking absolutely amazing! Color is looking incredible and this is going to be absolutely next level come Halloween. Well done!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@OnTheLawn I'm pretty shocked. These are older KBG cultivars. They took a fairly long time to germinate (most in the 3-4 week range), but man, do they come out of the bag with great color. Only 2 spoon feedings so far. Can't wait to see their potential.

The kind words are much appreciated!


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

@bf7 thanks for the kind words man! I appreciate it! What is your HOC plan going to be next year? Any thoughts of reel mowing?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

jrubb42 said:


> @bf7 thanks for the kind words man! I appreciate it! What is your HOC plan going to be next year? Any thoughts of reel mowing?


Sure thing! Probably somewhere in the 1-2 inch range. The main issues I have with going any lower are 1) losing color and 2) the unevenness of my lawn. Prior to seed I levelled with topsoil similar to my native by hand with a landscaping rake and got it nice and smooth. Well I'm afraid I didn't do my homework on proper levelling because when hurricane Laura ripped through, it made a bumpy mess again. Not nearly as bad as before, but I think it removed the possibility of low reel mowing (for now). I will try to fine tune the problem areas next year and hopefully I can get it flat without having to reno again. May experiment with sand - we'll see. Need to research that some more.

Really digging the color I'm getting at 1.5 inches. I might try to go a little lower my manual reel. Anyway, I don't think I'll be going back from KBG. This stuff is the bomb 👌


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@bf7 - my man - I saw in the 2020 reno thread you had some yellowing and was spoon feeding, so I circled back to your journal. I see you said your dropping urea @ .25/ksqft via spray application. Did you hit your yellow areas harder, or it just started coming around with the urea every 5-6 days at these rates?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Slingblade_847 said:


> @bf7 - my man - I saw in the 2020 reno thread you had some yellowing and was spoon feeding, so I circled back to your journal. I see you said your dropping urea @ .25/ksqft via spray application. Did you hit your yellow areas harder, or it just started coming around with the urea every 5-6 days at these rates?


Correct sir. I've done 2 spoon feedings so far. The first was on 9/18 and it was 0.3 lbs/k via granular starter fert. Second was on 9/24 0.25 lbs/k via urea spray. Will do another urea spray 0.25 lb/k tomorrow, 9/30, so I'm doing 6 day intervals. The color has gradually improved ever since a few days after the first feeding. Urea took it to the next level.

I didn't treat the yellowish areas any different. Tried to apply as evenly as possible to avoid burn, even though it's a low rate of N. I also watered in immediately after. And when I say immediately, I mean I worked in sections - spray front, water front, spray side, water side, etc. I've read that you can let it sit on the leaf for foliar absorption, but I thought the safest route would be to water and let it enter the roots. With fast release you'll notice the difference soon enough - for me it was within 12 hours.

Most of the former light green or yellow areas are now either spotted with dark green or completely dark green.


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## Carlson (Apr 16, 2020)

That is looking real good my dude. Even the back is filling out - with KBG you'll be perfect come springtime!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Carlson said:


> That is looking real good my dude. Even the back is filling out - with KBG you'll be perfect come springtime!


Yeah man, I can't say I'm disappointed at this point given the washout. Could have been way worse.

Now it's weed city. I guess Tenacity wore off. Need to plan second app soon.


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

It's filling in great and I'm in the same boat with Tenacity. I am going to apply since weed pressure is slowly building.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Have you done a follow up of tenacity yet?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Zcape35 and @OnTheLawn over the past few days the weeds have multiplied maybe 3x in my backyard. I'm not totally sure what's happening. I'm thinking it must be the Tenacity wearing off combined with the many thin areas there, as well as weeds that like colder weather. Spent a couple hours pulling with a screwdriver today. There are barely any weeds in the front yard because the KBG is dense there.

I think @JerseyGreens was planning his follow up Tenacity this weekend. I will likely do the same.

Ideally I would like to wait until some of my seedlings mature more but I don't think I can put it off much longer.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Yessir - I plan on striping (hopefully) with my new mower that's coming. Don't want to let the surprise out yet on that front!

Once I have nice stripes it will be easy breezy hitting it Tenacity and "staying in my lane".


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

What kind of weeds are we talking about? If they're going to be killed off by first frost, I wouldn't fret too much and then make your next blanket app of tenacity somewhere around 35-40 DAG of the first seed you put down. The seedlings coming up will be ok and if any get knocked down and out by the tenacity, rather that then let the weeds continue to come up. It's KBG, it'll fill in. Tenacity is best at what it does when follow up apps are made, so focus more on the majority of more mature grass than the minority.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> What kind of weeds are we talking about? If they're going to be killed off by first frost, I wouldn't fret too much and then make your next blanket app of tenacity somewhere around 35-40 DAG of the first seed you put down. The seedlings coming up will be ok and if any get knocked down and out by the tenacity, rather that then let the weeds continue to come up. It's KBG, it'll fill in. Tenacity is best at what it does when follow up apps are made, so focus more on the majority of more mature grass than the minority.


All kinds of crap. Crabgrass and broadleaf which I'm not worried about. There are a lot of different grasses coming up, and I'm not sure what they are. Some of them look similar to pictures of poa a that I've seen. Those ones appear in patches.

Lawn is about 50/50 original seed vs re-seed. Original seed is 32 DAG (will be 35 DAG on planned Tenacity day) and re-seed is somewhere around 20 DAG.

What rate do you use for follow up app? Do you mix in surfactant?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

If it's 50/50 and it's that close, I'd wait til 28 DAG of reseed and do a blanket app at the 4oz/A (0.55 teaspoons/M) rate. No surfactant. It's gonna light up whatever made it through and make it easier to spot problem grassy weeds, which you can then go out and spot spray or hand pull. Will also give you another 30 days of pre-em coverage. Then once you hit 60 DAG I'd put out a pre-em and the first frost will knock out whatever annuals are hanging around.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Thanks @OnTheLawn that is super helpful!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Day 53 after seed / 40 DAG. Haven't updated in a while - busy with work. A couple of days ago I decided to screw it and go low with the manual reel - no regrets! The below shots are all around 7/8" - 1".

By the way, I am definitely in the market for a greens mower now!

Best compliments I've gotten from neighbors so far:

-"Closest thing I've seen to Augusta National"
-"My friend thought it was fake grass"

:lol: safe to say, I will be keeping the low cut look.

This weekend I am planning 5th spoon feeding, propi, and (maybe) Tenacity.













The ugly... trouble spots. Some didn't get enough water and others suffered more from washout. Plan to hit these hard with the ProPlugger. Also full of weeds.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

Look how green those grass are! It looks so dark even under the sun. You're starting to dominate your neighbors!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Look how green those grass are! It looks so dark even under the sun. You're starting to dominate your neighbors!


Thanks! I thought I'd have to wait til next year for the dark green. Very blessed to have my lawn back already, let alone an upgraded version 🙏


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Wow! That's basically sums it up. You are going to put the local sod companies out of business! I haven't been able to catch up on everyone's journals with work, life, etc, so I just had a chance to read yours, and it's a fantastic project, with great documentation. I will be following, learning and enjoying. Color and density are amazing! As it continues to darken with maturity, it will be even more impressive.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

bf7 said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> > Look how green those grass are! It looks so dark even under the sun. You're starting to dominate your neighbors!
> ...


My front is not that green yet. Maybe it's the cultivar. I notice mazama is darker than bluebank. But yours are even darker.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Chris LI haha thanks man. Trying to document as much as possible so people in the future can see it's possible to have success after you think a hurricane has annihilated your reno. In fairness, the guy next door to me actually has a nice yard, but he's getting an in ground pool installed so bobcat machines have destroyed it. One of the guys working on his pool thought my yard was sod and asked how much I paid for it. He couldn't believe it was from seed, although he knew it was bluegrass. He said people are paying around $200 to have 400 sq ft of sod laid around their pools. Don't know if that's a good price or not, but for my yard, that would have cost $5k! My seed was around $600 for three 50 lb bags, and I only used 30% of it.

Something else I thought was amusing - about a week ago I noticed another house in my neighborhood had gly'd their whole yard. I have no idea if it was in response to my reno, but still funny. I hope they're using ryegrass!

@shadowlawnjutsu I'm sure your cultivars will darken significantly over time. They are newer than mine and all develop differently. Bewitched I think is an example of one that starts out light and becomes darker than most after a few years. I kind of knew what to expect with Prosperity and Moonlight. Renos including these seeds are documented on ATY (not so much here). I have not seen any photos of Blue Velvet or any yards with the exact combination I have. But my goal in selecting them was to have the "bluest" yard I've ever seen. The blue should start to come out as they mature.


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## Carlson (Apr 16, 2020)

Looks beautiful! Very dark and very nicely filled in.

I'm debating doing more tenacity in my yard - it might be cooling off enough that the few weeds are no real threat in my area.


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## SumBeach35 (Jul 11, 2019)

Quite the roller coaster of a reno for you in the beginning. Enjoyed the read, Keep up the good work @bf7


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

That's looking great, you cut it low and now you're hooked too. It's nice to walk on right?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Thanks all!

@Carlson I'm skipping second blanket of Tenacity. The label actually says to avoid it. I just went around and spot sprayed today. I'll keep doing that and hand pulling poa weeds until prodiamine.

@SumBeach35 I feel like most renos are roller coasters, and we all end up with nice yards in the end, because we won't quit until we get there. Lesson learned - remain calm.

@Zcape35 it's incredible to walk on and feel. You are using a greensmaster, right? I'm looking at GM 1000s and most of them are 11 or 14 blade reels. I'd prefer an 8 blade - the 1600s have them but they are like twice the cost. I'd like to keep it around 1".


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

Yes sir, mine does have an 11 blade reel. As of now it's cutting perfect and I don't see any visual issues. Maybe that will change down the road as my turf thickens but I have some really dense areas and it cuts perfect at any speed.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Zcape35 said:


> Yes sir, mine does have an 11 blade reel. As of now it's cutting perfect and I don't see any visual issues. Maybe that will change down the road as my turf thickens but I have some really dense areas and it cuts perfect at any speed.


Nice! Does yours go up to or over 1"? I read that some of the older models only go up to 1/2".


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

Mine is from around 2000 so it's older and it's 7/8" currently but I had it at 1". I think it would go to around 1.25 but haven't tried. 
I love that machine


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Finally got around to see you recent pictures. This is looking great man!

Also agree the darkness you got on such a young lawn is amazing! This is going to mature into something beautiful next Spring.

Ah I'm glad you have the reel low bug now too! Get one. You will seriously love it!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> Finally got around to see you recent pictures. This is looking great man!
> 
> Also agree the darkness you got on such a young lawn is amazing! This is going to mature into something beautiful next Spring.
> 
> Ah I'm glad you have the reel low bug now too! Get one. You will seriously love it!


Thanks dude! I think the 300+ ppm iron level in my soil has something to do with the rich color.

I'm addicted now 🤙 looking all over the place for mowers. I want either used Toro, JD, or Tru Cut, but up north they are tough to come by.

You should try dipping down to an inch or lower if you haven't yet!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Yeah man I'm going to go to 1 inch next cut. Maybe Thurs if things dry out.

So much rain and wet leaves on the lawn right now. Thank the Lord we got some fungicide down recently!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> Yeah man I'm going to go to 1 inch next cut. Maybe Thurs if things dry out.
> 
> So much rain and wet leaves on the lawn right now. Thank the Lord we got some fungicide down recently!


I actually skipped my propi app that I was planning last weekend. Reason being I wanted to avoid the PGR side effect of propi as I was hammering N and pushing growth in this home stretch of warmer weather. I think my last azoxy app wore off so just monitoring closely right now. Western PA has been very dry lately and I am seeing very little disease.

Make sure to get some pics up of that low cut!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Looks like the mild weather could be around another 1-2 weeks. The lawn has been responding well. I'm watering the entire lawn by hand once a day in the early morning. Some quality time between me and my turf! Allows me to examine everything up close on a regular basis.

I'm battling some type of unfriendly looking grass weed. Assuming it's either poa a or poa triv so trying to pull all of it. I've mowed my front yard 10+ times so I will probably give it prodiamine soon (around 60 days after seed). The back is not ready yet and may not be until end of October (around 60 DAG). Hoping soil temps will remain on the warm side.

Starting to see a little blue tone. The lighter patches on the left are the aforementioned weeds.


Pure evil




Sky view to emphasize bare spots.


The former "lime green" spot next to the tree which is now a healthy dark green.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

I really love that color! If my lawn won't get that green next spring, I'll overseed with a bit of Moonlight SLT.

Is that a Poa Annua? I'm bad at identifying poa annua/poa triv. To me anything that is light green and has flat crown I pull it up.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> I really love that color! If my lawn won't get that green next spring, I'll overseed with a bit of Moonlight SLT.
> 
> Is that a Poa Annua? I'm bad at identifying poa annua/poa triv. To me anything that is light green and has flat crown I pull it up.


Haha I wouldn't mind seeing that! Check out this link to someone who did a Moonlight SLT monostand:
https://aroundtheyard.com/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=7068

Not sure which KBG variety is driving the color - maybe it's just a happy blend. I wish I could see what a Prosperity or Blue Velvet monostand looks like. I have yet to find any.

I strongly believe this weed is one of the bad poas. I'm terrible at identifying too. They are so hard to pull out whenever they are mixed in with dense KBG. Just nasty stuff. Can't wait til I can get my pre-m down.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

The grass weeds are KILLING me. I can see it's noticably worse from the pics a week ago. Doing my best to get them out by hand and inevitably pulling out some KBG that is mixed in. Not sure if roundup would be better approach but my reasoning is I'd rather have to look at bare spots than yellow spots. My plan is to move plugs to these spots maybe in a couple of weeks.

I am blaming the topsoil. If it's poa annua or some other cool season weed I don't think it could have been fallowed out easily in July.





Still have a few more patches to pull.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

You can paint it with gly but I'm just pulling weeds. I know a lot of seedlings come up but it will fill in later. I just press back down on the hole lol.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> You can paint it with gly but I'm just pulling weeds. I know a lot of seedlings come up but it will fill in later. I just press back down on the hole lol.


Lol every discussion on here somehow degenerates into tips and holes!

Are you getting this patchy stuff (ignoring crabgrass)? I don't care if I pull up some seedlings but I'm terrified that this crap is all over the place and I just can't see it yet.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> > You can paint it with gly but I'm just pulling weeds. I know a lot of seedlings come up but it will fill in later. I just press back down on the hole lol.
> ...


Either I'm just pulling up crabgrass OR I have this stuff too just can't see it it.

I'm only pulling crabgrass though. Luckily.

Haha tips and holes. Our Reno's are getting R rated man!


----------



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Got my reel! John Deere 220B.



First mow!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Oh shoot! Y'all KBGers ain't messin around... there's a small part of me that wishes I had gone full KBG so I could mow reel low, but with my schedule and working retail it would be near impossible to keep up with it.

Looks great! Color is deepening nicely and very even. Great stuff.


----------



## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

bf7 said:


> Got my reel! John Deere 220B.
> 
> 
> 
> First mow!


Oh hell yes! Welcome to the reel low life pal!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> Oh shoot! Y'all KBGers ain't messin around... there's a small part of me that wishes I had gone full KBG so I could mow reel low, but with my schedule and working retail it would be near impossible to keep up with it.
> 
> Looks great! Color is deepening nicely and very even. Great stuff.


Haha I am wondering if I bit off more than I (i.e, my wife) can chew with the mowing frequency. Hoping PGR will help settle it down. The motor and 22 inch width certainly help speed up the process vs the Great States.

Just a few weeks ago I didn't think greens mower would even be in my 2 year plan. But after more research decided to take the plunge. I didn't realize these machines are so adept at avoiding scalping. The cut is so clean vs a rotary and the grass was getting too thick for the manual reel. It was very choppy.


----------



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > Got my reel! John Deere 220B.
> ...


Thanks bro! This is not "real low" yet (around 1 inch), but the feeling is there! 👍


----------



## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I love this crew.

First to do full Reno's
Then learning how to reel mow together. 
Now will learn the ins and outs of PGR...

It's like going back to school to get a master's degree with your friends!


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

Wow, another reel mower. Congratulation!


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

Looks grrrrrreat! Lol
Looks like a sweet mower too.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Zcape35 said:


> Looks grrrrrreat! Lol
> Looks like a sweet mower too.


Thanks Tony lol. The dealer I got it from also had several GM 1000s but they were about 5 years older and maxed out at 0.75". The JD gets close to 1.25". It came from a high end golf course where I believe it was treated well. Happy with my choice.


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

Hells yeah, you must love that turf. I think most people would do it if they had the time and the mower. (And they were a bit obsessed like we are)


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

Welcome to the club, bite the bullet and go below 1 inch first cut on the Reno was 21mm and been there since. I did a pgr app on oct 2nd at .3oz per ksqf and it has done great. I still like to mow twice to three times a weeks, the front yard has tiny tiny clippings now. Should be wearing off with in the next two weeks depending on temp


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I second that. Brought it down to 3/4 or so and the grass finally got the point that it's going to be cut super low and is going lateral a lot more.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

I plan to lower it. Wanted to ease into it first time. Lower should result in cleaner cut since it's 11 blade.

I was doing slightly below 7/8" with the manual reel. There were barely any clippings at 1" with greens mower. For the most part it just made some cool stripes.

I was struggling with it in my 1k sq foot front yard where there are trees and other obstacles. Not very fun starting and stopping. Hard to get any good stripes going. Any tips from those with small yards are welcome!

👎



👍


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

its just a matter of getting used to it, I have obstacles in my yard and do well with them, just slow the throttle all the way down and go around them slowly.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Thanks @Di3soft! I figure it will just take some time. Felt like I was doing an aeration out there the first time!


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

Haha yea for sure man, it's a beast the first few times


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Put down 6th spoon feeding this morning. 0.3 lbs N/1k. Waited 10 days since the last app due to burnt tips noticed last week. We are supposed to get a mini heat wave over the next few days with highs approaching 80.

Yard is lit up like a Christmas tree with bleached poa annua.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

Is that the poa constrictor that lit up your yard?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Is that the poa constrictor that lit up your yard?


Tenacity


----------



## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

bf7 said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> > Is that the poa constrictor that lit up your yard?
> ...


DId you spot spray or broadcast? Whatever you did I don't see the other good turf whitened at all. Good job.


----------



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > shadowlawnjutsu said:
> ...


Spot treatment. If you look close at the last few pics there are some weeds that aren't white. So either I missed those or they popped up after I sprayed. Fortunately that's the back section of my yard that I care the least about. Most of the yard is clean (so far). The white spots are in the background below.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

We will get the weeds choked out over time. Beauty of KBG.

What a wild 2 months...I'm going to miss you guys come Winter, haha!


----------



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> We will get the weeds choked out over time. Beauty of KBG.
> 
> What a wild 2 months...I'm going to miss you guys come Winter, haha!


Haha I go into dormancy in the winter much like the grass. Pretty much lose all interest in the lawn. I'm sure all of us will be back here in the spring competing for LOTM.


----------



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Slightly improved stripes in the front with the JD. Still need a lot of work to practice maneuvering around the tight spaces.





Some criss cross action in the back.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Looks good! Still can't get over this color.

Go lower!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> Looks good! Still can't get over this color.
> 
> Go lower!


Lol I might try taking her down to 3/4" next time!


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## Agiuliano10 (Apr 21, 2020)

what rate are you mixing for your spot treatment on the poa a?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Agiuliano10 said:


> what rate are you mixing for your spot treatment on the poa a?


On the Tenacity label there are directions for spot apps. I used this - 1/2 tsp Tenacity into 1 gallon of water over 1k sq ft. Doing the math I think it's equivalent to ~3.6 oz/acre rate.


----------



## Agiuliano10 (Apr 21, 2020)

bf7 said:


> Agiuliano10 said:
> 
> 
> > what rate are you mixing for your spot treatment on the poa a?
> ...


Got it. Thanks!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Finally finished plugging all the patches where I ripped out poa a that was trying to take over my front yard. This stuff sucks. Wasted over 100 plugs that could have been used in washout areas.

May be moot at this point but barricade is going down next weekend.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

Great job on plugging those bare spots. Now we can see how fas the KBG can cover that.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Very good job!

Plugging away with those burnt tips baby. haha I had to do it!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@shadowlawnjutsu @JerseyGreens haha thanks guys. I could take that further but my journal is PG-13.

Do not underestimate the amount of work it takes to plug some seemingly measly areas. That was probably a full day's worth of work spread out over a week. I could be just inept when it comes to the ProPlugger, but I was constantly hitting stuff underground that made the process pretty grueling.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Dropped fert today for the 7th and final time this season - 0.2 lbs N/1k. That brings the total to 1.8 lbs N/1k.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

bf7 said:


> Dropped fert today for the 7th and final time this season - 0.2 lbs N/1k. That brings the total to 1.8 lbs N/1k.


Bittersweet. I taped up my bag of AMS y'day. Until Spring for the fert.

I promise no more jokes. That was the last and final one!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

How often are you cutting right now? Getting used to the reel life?

My lawn just ain't quitting yet...which I'm OK with!


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> How often are you cutting right now? Getting used to the reel life?
> 
> My lawn just ain't quitting yet...which I'm OK with!


I'm still mowing twice a week. But leaves are dropping faster now, I can't keep up. Especially when it's wet the past few days.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> > How often are you cutting right now? Getting used to the reel life?
> ...


Same here...with the reel - we have to blow the leaves off the lawn first (which is a pain if the wind is blowing - which it has been lately), and then cut. These are times where I do miss the rotary - everything happens at once...


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> How often are you cutting right now? Getting used to the reel life?
> 
> My lawn just ain't quitting yet...which I'm OK with!


I was cutting every other day since I got the greens mower, lowering slightly each time - I think first and second cuts were at 1 1/16", third was at 7/8", and latest was at 3/4". It cooled down significantly (30 degree drop in daily highs) so I'm expecting the mowing frequency to drop as well. I'll have to get back to you on exactly what that new frequency is. It's been 2 days since the last mow and I will not be mowing today.

I really like the mower, but I think I want to install a reel with less blades - may be a good winter project. The 11 blade does an ok cut around 3/4", but that height doesn't stripe as well as I would like. Also loses some color. Increasing the height results in a pretty sloppy cut, unless I go over the yard 2 or 3 times, which isn't feasible for 10k sq ft. I think a ~1 inch HOC with lower blade reel would be a better fit for me.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

72 days after seed / 59 DAG. Put down blanket 2 oz / acre of Tenacity and 3 month rate of Prodiamine.

Planning two additional 2 oz / acre apps of Tenacity prior to end of fall.

The war on poa has begun.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

75 days after seed / 62 DAG. Halloween pics. Double cut at 0.75" with JD 220B.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Looks great brotha! Something to be proud of.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

This looks fab. Looks like you are getting used to the reel now!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@OnTheLawn @JerseyGreens thanks gents! Still not getting stripes I want in the front due to all the obstacles but getting a cleaner cut. The double mow helps a lot. Mowing the wide open back yard is a blast.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Either a severe case of powdery mildew or I went a little heavy on the Tenacity.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Haha - very funny! Hope that knocks out some weeds.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> > How often are you cutting right now? Getting used to the reel life?
> ...


Most people double mow with reel mowers every time. I had a JD 180b with 11 blade reel and it looked sloppy above 1/2. You need a lower blade count. Once I switched to an 8 blade it was 1000% better. If you want a deeper green then a higher hoc is the way to go. I've been down to .25 and it looks like an off green vs 3/4+. I just can't stand 1 inch or higher grass now that I've been down so low - my friends and wife think I'm insane because I say it's so long hah. Reno looks great too!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Biggylawns said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > JerseyGreens said:
> ...


Haha thanks man. I am coming to the realization that I will need to double mow to get the look that I want. 3/4-1" should be my sweet spot. I really want to keep the deep color and get nice stripes. I don't need a golf green. An inch would still be like 1.5 inches lower than the next lowest lawn in my neighborhood lol

How did you like the JD? I couldn't find an 8 blade replacement for mine, only a 9 blade on R&R. Do you know where I could find an 8 blade (or less), or would you take the plunge on the 9 blade?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Well I lied before about being done with nitrogen and decided to do another fast release feeding today given the warm up. 0.3 lbs N/k, bringing the total for the reno to 2.10 lbs N/k.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

bf7 said:


> Well I lied before about being done with nitrogen and decided to do another fast release feeding today given the warm up. 0.3 lbs N/k, bringing the total for the reno to 2.10 lbs N/k.


Good call. With these temps it will drink it up. I just cut today and did 2 days ago...I got serious clippings.

It just won't quit...you will likely find yourself cutting 2-3 times this week.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > Well I lied before about being done with nitrogen and decided to do another fast release feeding today given the warm up. 0.3 lbs N/k, bringing the total for the reno to 2.10 lbs N/k.
> ...


👍 Looking forward to it, actually hope I need to mow daily!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Sprayed another 2 oz/acre blanket Tenacity and hand pulled some poa a today. Excluding spot applications, I have done the following so far:

8/17 seed down pre-m (no NIS) 5 oz/acre
10/28 post-m (NIS) 2 oz/acre
11/6 post-m (NIS) 2 oz/acre

I believe the spot apps actually worked to kill some poa a. It must be easier to get while it's young. Hence my last minute charge here before it blows up in the spring. The way back section of my yard that was littered with white spots a couple weeks ago is now green again and much fewer weeds. I haven't been pulling anything back here since I spot sprayed. Although some of it was crabgrass likely killed by frost / freeze.

10/20


11/6


Hope to get one or two more 2 oz/acre apps in prior to winter.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Yesterday I hand watered the entire lawn in the morning, being careful not to step on the frosted grass. Then let it dry out and mowed in the afternoon - first mow in a week. Turns out the wood block I was using to measure my HOC before wasn't perfectly level, and I think I was previously cutting somewhere closer to 1/2". I wasn't a huge a fan. Makes me want to invest in a gauge.

I *believe* the current HOC is 13/16". Barely any clippings despite an N app this week, due to the super low cut last weekend. I like the higher height much better for color and striping.

Another guy working on my neighbor's pool attempted to compliment the grass but thought it was bermuda. Don't know whether to take that as an insult.

I think I will keep doing the double wide stripes in the back. Still figuring out the front.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Got dumped on this morning with 3/4" of rain. I think the lawn liked it but now noticing some mini disease outbreaks in certain areas. They can't be seen from a distance yet. My first inclinations are rust or leaf spot.

Debating whether to throw down some fungicide. My two options are propi or thiophanate-methyl. Looks like propi has better control but trying not to slow down top growth.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I'm terrible at diagnosing fungus just know thats def fungus related.

Give the clearys a shot especially if you've put down a good amount of Azoxy and Propi thus far.

Have to keep the fungus guessing.

I'm not showing it but I'm definitely concerned with my last batch of issues because top growth has slowed and I don't want root rot happening over the next month plus.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Hey! Great journal! Hi from Wales, UK.&#128075;&#127996;
I read your journal thru recently, thanks for posting&#128077;&#127996;&#128578; You're doing a great job, love that color&#128064;

I'm just seeing your latest pics and thought about pink snow mold/microdochium nivale possibly rearing its ugly head. Looks similar to my situation. Just to be clear however, I haven't had it specifically confirmed. Just an option. Maybe melting out, as the tips seem to be suffering while the base of the leaf looks better.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@JerseyGreens Keep us posted on the results of your Clearys app.

Azoxy is definitely out since I've used it twice on the reno. Used propi once like 2 months ago. I would use propi without hesitation if not for the growth regulation. I want the KBG to push through the Tenacity impacts asap. The small amount of clippings I got yesterday was pretty discouraging.

It appears Clearys has so-so control over these diseases. I might give it a shot.

@Mark B thank you! Much appreciated! First time I've talked to someone from Wales. My mom's side of the family is of Welsh descent, so this very cool for me!

Snow mold would have been one of my last guesses, given that we had one light snow and it was only on the ground for a few hours, but you never know. I am terribly under-qualified at diagnosing. Melting out is definitely a possibility. Are you combatting it with fungicides?


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

bf7 said:


> @Mark B thank you! Much appreciated! First time I've talked to someone from Wales. My mom's side of the family is of Welsh descent, so this very cool for me!
> 
> Snow mold would have been one of my last guesses, given that we had one light snow and it was only on the ground for a few hours, but you never know. I am terribly under-qualified at diagnosing. Melting out is definitely a possibility. Are you combatting it with fungicides?


Glad to bump into you! Wherabouts in Wales is your mum from?

Pink snow mold seems to be a little different to grey snow mold (typhula), which is active during prolonged periods of snow cover.
Pink snow mold/microdochium nivale seems able to develop when wet and well fertilized, with minimal snow cover and is active especially at 30-60F. 
As always, diagnosing a disease is notoriously difficult without a leaf tissue sample lab test. I hope it works out for you.

This link is great for some research, hope it useful.
https://ag.purdue.edu/btny/Lists/Publications/Diseases%20of%20Turf.aspx


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Mark B said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > @Mark B thank you! Much appreciated! First time I've talked to someone from Wales. My mom's side of the family is of Welsh descent, so this very cool for me!
> ...


No clue haha. My mom didn't come from there, but I believe her great grandparents, or someone up the family tree did. That's pretty much the extent of my knowledge on the subject.

Thanks for the link. I had no idea there was a grey snow mold, or that pink snow mold could develop with minimal snow. Very helpful to know!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Almost forgot to post yesterday's mow, 13/16". 86 days after seed / 73 DAG. Clippings... again few and far between. I feel like the growing season is rapidly drawing to a close now :crying:


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

^^^ What a beauty ^^^

I think a few of us are...sadly...going to be getting in our last mows within the next 2 weeks give or take...


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> ^^^ What a beauty ^^^
> 
> I think a few of us are...sadly...going to be getting in our last mows within the next 2 weeks give or take...


Haha thanks! Let's face it, everyone in the reno class of 2020 killed it.

To add insult to injury, I ran out of pumpkin beers last weekend. I need to move on to Christmas ales. What a depressing time.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

You're definitely killing it! Color looks phenomenal! You may need to go on a little search, but there are probably a few pumpkin ales around. If you haven't tried it, but see it on the shelf, try PumKing from Southern Tier. It's my favorite. If you happen to traverse L.I., I would be able to give you a few to try. I've been saving them up after a cold day of leaf mulching, but it's been so warm, I'm holding off, and sticking with my IPA's and DIPA's.

Seriously, PM me if you're out here and interested.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Chris LI said:


> You're definitely killing it! Color looks phenomenal! You may need to go on a little search, but there are probably a few pumpkin ales around. If you haven't tried it, but see it on the shelf, try PumKing from Southern Tier. It's my favorite. If you happen to traverse L.I., I would be able to give you a few to try. I've been saving them up after a cold day of leaf mulching, but it's been so warm, I'm holding off, and sticking with my IPA's and DIPA's.
> 
> Seriously, PM me if you're out here and interested.


Thanks man! Yeah, I'm definitely making a beer run this weekend to see what's still out there. Big fan of the pumking. This year I got a 4 pack of the pumking nitro cans... delicious. My favorite in the style though is a toss up between Schlaflys and Whole Hog. Both have a nice pumpkin pie taste.

That was smart to save yours for the nippy weather. I don't have the self control. Call me crazy, but I'm not an IPA guy - feels like I'm biting into a grapefruit. I'm partial to Belgians and stouts.

I'll hit you up if I'm up there again. I've been to a couple concerts at Jones Beach but traveling is so hard nowadays.

Longest post I've written on here unrelated to lawn care! Don't hate it!


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

:thumbup: Love it and I'll have to check them out! When it gets real cold out, I gravitate to imperial porters and stouts. Cheers! I get lazy and should post in the beer thread.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Color looks great! Very dark already.

As far as the beers, no pumpkin left in this area either and we've moved onto the Christmas seasonals. One of my favorites is Fireside Chat by 21st Amendment, eagerly anticipating its release.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> Color looks great! Very dark already.
> 
> As far as the beers, no pumpkin left in this area either and we've moved onto the Christmas seasonals. One of my favorites is Fireside Chat by 21st Amendment, eagerly anticipating its release.


Thank you! That's also a solid choice! My favorite holiday seasonal is Troegs Mad Elf. Need to be careful with that stuff. Goes down easy despite an 11% ABV.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Wanted to provide an update on Tenacity, since I've been obsessing over it lately. To recap, I did two separate blanket apps at the 2 oz/acre rate with NIS. I'm at 16 days since first app and 7 days since second app. I have observed extremely minimal, if any, bleaching on the KBG. As the label says whitening generally appears after 5 to 7 days, I'm not going to worry much about it anymore. Also I sprayed it when weather was unseasonably mild. Although I hoped to squeeze in another round, I'm holding off until spring since temps are back down to normal.

I am seeing bleaching / wilting / shriveling on some poa a, although it's not widespread. What I'm starting to find is that I don't have as many weeds as I thought. My suspicion is that one of my cultivars is sending up lighter green shoots and also feels different than the others. It looked bad when I mowed low. After I raised the HOC, it looked much better and regained color. I no longer believe my yard is being overrun with weeds. Hindsight 20/20, I wouldn't have done the Tenacity, but at least it helped me draw some conclusions going into winter (and, hopefully weakened whatever poa a is there!).

The majority of the weeds are near property lines so I have a strong feeling seeds are coming from neighbors yards and not from the topsoil I brought in.















This guy is a monster but the Tenacity is tearing him a new one.



No visible bleaching from afar. The front is still way ahead of the back in terms of progress this fall. It's a much deeper green, and I feel like many seedlings in the back are still in pout, believe it or not. Apart from the minor poa a invasion along my neighbor's yard where I chose to rip out turf and move in plugs, I couldn't have asked for a better front yard. I am absolutely in love with the color.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Since Tenacity is lighting up small isolated spots, you could pop them out with a weeding tool. I used a Fiskars long-handled weeder and went to town a couple of years back after lighting up a bunch of Poa A, and it worked great. You could fill them in with a little topsoil and call it a day. Kbg should fill in on its own. If you found a larger spot, you could pull plugs from a donor area and fill them in. Lawn looks great! I've been following.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Chris LI said:


> Since Tenacity is lighting up small isolated spots, you could pop them out with a weeding tool. I used a Fiskars long-handled weeder and went to town a couple of years back after lighting up a bunch of Poa A, and it worked great. You could fill them in with a little topsoil and call it a day. Kbg should fill in on its own. If you found a larger spot, you could pull plugs from a donor area and fill them in. Lawn looks great! I've been following.


Thank you sir! I definitely plan on doing some pulling soon. Flat head screwdriver has worked well for me. I had big poa patches in the front yard and decided rip everything out and use the ProPlugger before they spread. That was a lot of work. Fortunately it doesn't look like anything that significant now. I will likely just pluck and let the KBG fill in. I'll go after the ones with seed heads first.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

:thumbup: I love my Pro Plugger! I'm glad you have one, too. It definitely helps.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Today put down 0.73 oz / 1k of propi 41.8, mainly to help prevent spread of rust.

Still no bleaching of KBG from Tenacity apps.

Last mow was Saturday and grass hasn't grown much since then. I'm thinking I have 1 or 2 cuts left.


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

@bf7, just read through the journal. Phenomenal bounceback from the early washouts! The reno process is stressful enough and to throw that nonsense in there, yikes I'd have been a wreck.

My one question is: why 150 lbs of seed? Was that (50 lb bags) all that was available for purchase or are you planning on unloading it somehow?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

jskierko said:


> @bf7, just read through the journal. Phenomenal bounceback from the early washouts! The reno process is stressful enough and to throw that nonsense in there, yikes I'd have been a wreck.
> 
> My one question is: why 150 lbs of seed? Was that (50 lb bags) all that was available for purchase or are you planning on unloading it somehow?


Thanks brother! For the kind words and for taking a spin through the journal. Your Bewitched mono is looking awesome. My postimg.cc is currently acting up but I could see your latest pics and you have some great density going into winter. I've read Bewitched develops insane color after a few years so definitely exciting days ahead. I can promise you won't regret a reel mower if you end up taking that plunge.

Regarding the seed, I originally wanted 25 lbs of each cultivar. Unfortunately (maybe because they are older varieties) there weren't a whole lot of sources. I think for 2 out of the 3, there was only the 50 lb option. And then for the last one, just decided to keep it consistent. I might try to get rid of my remaining stash eventually - stay tuned. I'm afraid to part with it now in case I need to re-seed heavily or decide to do something crazy like a monostand with one of them. Either way they are being stored a cool dry spot in my basement.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

I decided to put down a winterizer app of urea today at 0.6 lbs N/1k. And with that, went through an entire 50 lb bag of urea on the reno!

Here's the rundown of fertilizer apps this fall:

8/17 (seed down) - Starter fert @ 0.6 lbs N/1k
9/18 - Starter fert @ 0.3 lbs N/1k
9/24 - Urea @ 0.25 lbs N/1k
9/30 - Urea @ 0.25 lbs N/1k
10/6 - Urea @ 0.25 lbs N/1k
10/14 - Urea @ 0.25 lbs N/1k
10/20 - Urea @ 0.3 lbs N/1k
10/26 - Urea @ 0.2 lbs N/1k
11/5 (unplanned / 70s temps) - Urea @ 0.3 lbs N/1k
11/25 (winterizer) - Urea @ 0.6 lbs N/1k

Total N - 3.30 lbs/1k
Total N after germination - 2.70 lbs/1k


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Not entirely sure whether this is dormancy or disease, but keeping an eye on it. I don't plan on putting down any more fungicides. If it's disease, the freezing temps next week should prevent it from getting any worse, and we'll see how the lawn can repair itself in the spring.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Final mow of the season. 103 days after seed / 90 DAG.


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

Awesome work, enjoy the offseason!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

jskierko said:


> Awesome work, enjoy the offseason!


Right back at you, have a good a winter man!


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