# Brand new Bermuda sod is dying!!



## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

I'm new to this forum and looking for help. I just built a new home and put 20 pallets of Celebration Bermuda in 3 weeks ago. I was watering it daily and it was looking great until this week when we've had rain every day, and some areas are a marsh. Those areas are where the sod is dying. Other areas that drain well look fine. I can't control mother nature, but I'm just wondering if if the sod will recover once it dries out?? It's looking absolutely dead as nails in the areas I'm referring to.

One thing to mention is that our gutters haven't been installed yet so the areas of concern literally have water being funneled to them when it rains. Once the gutters get installed, it will help tremendously, but I just want to know if the sod will recover.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

Hi Nate...Im not one of the experts on here but from what I understand its fairly difficult to kill Bermuda!

Questions:
- has it stopped raining
-is the saoked areas still flooded or has it drained (no standing water)
- did you take pics of problem areas

Once the rain stops if the flooded areas clear up in a couple of hours then that is good even if ground is still mushy. I took pics of my problem areas when I had serious flooding in some areas last year and that helped me decide how I wanted to address it. In the end as the grass matured over this past year the flooding is greatly reduced and I have no standing water after about 20 minutes.

Im sure if you post a couple of pics it would be helpful for the experts to help you. Best of luck...


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

Haven't taken any pics. We don't live in the house yet, but I'll take some pics later today.

No rain today, thankfully. First dry day this week. The ground is very mushy, but no standing water. Hoping to see a significant change today.

My landscaper said it's very hard to kill Bermuda. He compared it to weeds. Hope he's right.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Welcome to TLF!!!

How soon until you move into the house? See if your landscaper can fertilize it once all the heavy rain stops in your area or if you can do it yourself. Most likely the sod got a lot of it's nutrients washed away with all the rain and since it most likely has very shallow roots there isn't a lot of area for it to pull nutrients from. A good balance fertilizer like 10-10-10 or a dedicated starter fertilizer would be best to use. Your landscaper is correct that bermuda is HARD to kill especially once it's established.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

Im fairly certain you will be in great shape... Get a soil test in the spring(feb/mar) then you will know exactly what to feed your lawn based on soil conditions. This alone will put you miles ahead and enable you to have a game plan. There is also a lawn journal section here on TLF which I think is very beneficial!

Prior to joining TLF I was just doing what I thought I should do and it turns I was doing things wrong for sure. Just watering alone (the right way) has transformed my yard. Im predicting an awesome lawn next year compared to last although it won't ever be as nice as some of these guys here on TLF...


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

See there @Mightyquinn is already on it. He has provided me with most excellent advice and guidance!!


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

So I found this grub looking thing in the grass, but as you can see from the pic, it's in green grass. The other pics are what I'm concerned about. You can even see the indentation of the water pouring off the roof in 1 pic.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

When I re-did my trees I found grubs in my mulch beds. I put down Dylox to kill them and will take preventive action next summer.


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

Headed to Lowes today. Any recommendation on both a fertilizer and insecticide would be appreciated.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

How many SQ Ft are you trying to cover? That would be the key and get this Bayer Advanced Grub Killer Plus! I say get the Bayer brand since you are headed to Lowes... As for fertilizer I think @Mightyquinn advised to use starter fert or a balanced 10-10-10.

Good luck


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

welcome to TLF
How much sun are the areas getting that are brown in color?
Bermuda requires 6 hours of direct sunlight minimum to thrive and grow healthy. That is 6 hours of unfiltered (not threw the tree) light. You have a tree behind your fence. Since the house isnt finished I would make sure who's property that tree lies on. 
I believe I have read that celebration bermuda does better with a little more nitrogen then normal.
It is tough to tell you what type of fertilizer to get wilthout telling us your yard size. Do you know how many sq ft of sod they installed? A very large yard as you stated is always in the eyes of the beholder. Very costly if you put down celebration in more than 20,000 square feet
If it is very large then i would not use milorganite. it will be to expensive to apply and give your grass enough nitrogen.
A formulation with 20-?-? is a good start. Do you have a spreader?


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

Got the 10-10-10 that was suggested. Bought a different brand of grub killer though.

We put down 20 pallets of sod, each covering about 400 square feet. So I guess we put down about 8,000 square feet of sod. Most of the yard gets plenty of sun. The areas that are dying get good afternoon sun. But the entire week it rained and there was no sunshine whatsoever. Probably not a good formula for brand new sod.


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## thatlawnguy (Aug 16, 2018)

That looks like an armyworm to me. What is the active ingredient in the grub killer you bought?

-tlg


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## erdons (Apr 3, 2018)

Looks like it's dying because of lack of sun...


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

erdons said:


> Looks like it's dying because of lack of sun...


Haven't had a lick of sunlight in 5 or 6 days until today. We've got a few days of sunshine coming so we'll see....


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

thatlawnguy said:


> That looks like an armyworm to me. What is the active ingredient in the grub killer you bought?
> 
> -tlg


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Did you roll your sod after instillation?
Did you get 2 bags of 10-10-10?
If so put it down


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## tcorbitt20 (Aug 31, 2018)

That is absolutely an army worm. They'll destroy a yard in just a few days. Left untreated the rest of your green grass will be brown, too.


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## thatlawnguy (Aug 16, 2018)

:thumbup: That AI should kill them. It's probably the last thing you want to do after the last 2 weeks of rain but don't forget to water it in.

-tlg


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

Tellycoleman said:


> Did you roll your sod after instillation?
> Did you get 2 bags of 10-10-10?
> If so put it down


Yes and yes


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

Now kick back and have a drink of choice... As you can see lots of opinions and these guys are good. First lesson learned...make sure the problem is correctly identified (thought they were grubs but turned out to be army worms). Other items of interest: shaded areas, drainage, insects, soil test and a plan of attack for next year!


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

Didn't quite need 2 bags of 10-10-10. Had half a bag left. Had the broadcast spreader set to 7 so it went on liberally, hopefully without over doing it. I sure hope this works. I spent a lot of money on this sod.


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

ctrav said:


> Now kick back and have a drink of choice... As you can see lots of opinions and these guys are good. First lesson learned...make sure the problem is correctly identified (thought they were grubs but turned out to be army worms). Other items of interest: shaded areas, drainage, insects, soil test and a plan of attack for next year!


At this point I'm wondering if there will be a next year. Some of those area went from green to dead in just a few days.

The shade problem is an issue in spots so I'm not sure what to do about that. And with the days getting shorter, sunlight is getting less and less by the day.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

nateredmon said:


> ctrav said:
> 
> 
> > Now kick back and have a drink of choice... As you can see lots of opinions and these guys are good. First lesson learned...make sure the problem is correctly identified (thought they were grubs but turned out to be army worms). Other items of interest: shaded areas, drainage, insects, soil test and a plan of attack for next year!
> ...


Well it will go dormant in just a bit so you have time to sort it out. I dont think your sod is dead by any means! As it is your sod goes all the way up to the house so creating some boarders is an option. Prior to the rain how did you usually water the new sod? Can you share a few more pics with overall view to generate ideas? When do you actually move in?


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## Rockinar (Jul 21, 2017)

That not a grub. That's a fall Army Worm. That's what's killing your lawn, not the rain.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

Found this online...

Q: Two days after realizing my bermuda lawn had army worms it was brown. We killed the caterpillars but the grass is still not green. Will the grass recover this year?

A: If the bermudagrass was reasonably healthy, it will green-up just fine next spring. Armyworm caterpillars come from eggs laid by small moths. They often come in on new sod but existing lawns can be infested if the moths are blown up from Florida on strong winds. They do not overwinter in north Georgia. Armyworms only eat the grass leaves, not the stem or roots. Since the lawn is so thin now, be sure to apply a pre-emergent weed control immediately to prevent winter weeds from sprouting.

http://blog.supersod.com/fall-armyworms-in-lawns

Hope is alive!


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

ctrav said:


> nateredmon said:
> 
> 
> > ctrav said:
> ...


Around here, grass doesn't go dormant until late December. We won't even get a freeze until late November at the earliest.

We have an irrigation system so I've been watering it twice a day up until this week when it rained every day. We move in in about 10 days or so.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

nateredmon said:


> ctrav said:
> 
> 
> > nateredmon said:
> ...


Im in the DFW area so about the same conditions. First frost is projected around nov 22. How long had you been watering the new sod? If it was all turning green then you should still be fine. You put down the fert (10-10-10) which is good. Now dont overwater! We have had plenty of rain thes past week and after tomorrow we should be good for awhile.

As for watering I use to water 3 times a week but from advice here I started watering once a week (deep watering). This is one of the things that is transforming my lawn! Look into it if you have not done so. Now would be a good time to transition to this way of watering since we have had so much rain.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Good advice given so far however i would NOT transition to only 1 watering a week just yet. Wait until your grass is established. With that said you can water to much so if your a soggy sloppy mess you do need to cut back.
Can you still pull up a corner of your sod? ( It looks like you can) Keep watering until you have good rooting and then cut back.

Invest in Bifen and ImidaPro for current and future insects. apply Bifen monthly and ImidaPro every other month and forget about bugs.

No you did NOTput down to much fertilizer. 
I personally would have put down the entire second bag which would have been around 1.2 pounds per 1000. But being new to the hobby I can also understand your hesitance. 
Next time however maybe put down 1 bag every 2 weeks
Why? you may ask
When you put down one pound of Nitrogen a month the grass will absorb as much as it can and the rest will be waisted by way of run- off or volitization in the air. 
SO with that said most if not all of the fertiliazer you put down yesterday will be gone 20-25 days from now. (depending on the temperature) 
Then you hit it again with nitrogen for next month. Get alot of surge growth then it begins to starve again.
Better to apply one bag of you fert (0.5-0.6 pounds per 1000) every 2 weeks.
Still giving your lawn a little over 1 pound of nitrogen a month. Which you probably need.
But also giving your grass a continual feeding.

Just a different way to look at it. Determine the best way for you that fits your lifestyle and time commitments.


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

Is it okay for me to mow the grass the day after I put that fertilizer down? Or should I just let it grow for a few more days?


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

nateredmon said:


> Is it okay for me to mow the grass the day after I put that fertilizer down? Or should I just let it grow for a few more days?


With all the rain I would wait till it drys out.


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

Tellycoleman said:


> Good advice given so far however i would NOT transition to only 1 watering a week just yet. Wait until your grass is established. With that said you can water to much so if your a soggy sloppy mess you do need to cut back.
> Can you still pull up a corner of your sod? ( It looks like you can) Keep watering until you have good rooting and then cut back.
> 
> Invest in Bifen and ImidaPro for current and future insects. apply Bifen monthly and ImidaPro every other month and forget about bugs.
> ...


There are some spots in the healthy areas that I can't pull the corners up any more. The spots that are apparently dead can easily be pulled up but there's also a lot of roots showing and growing too.

I'll follow your advice on the fertilizing and watering, although we have several more days of rain forecasted for this week. Should I stick with 10-10-10 or move on to something else next time?


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

ctrav said:


> nateredmon said:
> 
> 
> > Is it okay for me to mow the grass the day after I put that fertilizer down? Or should I just let it grow for a few more days?
> ...


I have areas that drain well and get a lot more sun than others and those areas are dry. I was only going to mow those areas. I'd just tear the wet areas up.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Wait did you water in your fertilizer with about a half inch of water?
You should if you havent.
NEVER apply quick release fertilizer to wet grass!!!
DId you???
If so turn on your sprinklers now and water in. You purchased quick release fetilizer and applying it to wet grass can burn the grass blades. It wont kill your grass just make it ugly for 2-3 weeks
You do not need to stress out your lawn anymore than you have to

https://youtu.be/6hQttpkkj7w


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

I only apply a balanced fertilizer like you put down twice a year
Spring and fall.
The rest of the time I apply just nitrogen.
With That said you need a soil test to determine what you need.
Find the formulation thats best for your lawn size. 10-0-0 might be good
I would NOT get 40-0-0. For someone new to the hobby you could easily burn up your lawn with that.
If you use a 20-0-0 then 1 bag will give you 1 pound of N over 10,000 feet.
So sticking with a smaller number like a 10-0-0 or 8-0-1 would be easier for your lawn size.
@nateredmon


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

Some have asked for some pics. I sent pictures of the bad spots. These are pics of the good areas. Oddly enough, the big area near the street is where I found the army worms. But the good news is that I found 2 more today that were dead less than 24 hours after applying the insecticide.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

nateredmon said:


> Some have asked for some pics. I sent pictures of the bad spots. These are pics of the good areas. Oddly enough, the big area near the street is where I found the army worms. But the good news is that I found 2 more today that were dead less than 24 hours after applying the insecticide.


That's a beautiful property...congrats!


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

ctrav said:


> nateredmon said:
> 
> 
> > Some have asked for some pics. I sent pictures of the bad spots. These are pics of the good areas. Oddly enough, the big area near the street is where I found the army worms. But the good news is that I found 2 more today that were dead less than 24 hours after applying the insecticide.
> ...


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

Tellycoleman said:


> Wait did you water in your fertilizer with about a half inch of water?
> You should if you havent.
> NEVER apply quick release fertilizer to wet grass!!!
> DId you???
> ...


I watered it heavily last night after applying the fertilizer and insecticide.


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## thatlawnguy (Aug 16, 2018)

Good job and as ctrav said your new property looks great. You will find the armyworms in the green areas (often in the border between brown and green) as they move where the food is and are generally active at night. Keep an eye on the lawn and there's a good chance you'll have to reapply in a few weeks but those dead worms are a good sign.

-tlg


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

Has anyone used 13-13-13 on Bermuda before? At my old house we had St Augustine and it worked wonders on that grass.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@nateredmon 13-13-13 are just numbers to represent the N (nitrogen), P (phosphorus), and K (potassium) percentage in the fertilizer. With the same numbers, this is considered a balanced fertilizer. Most of the 13-13-13 fertilizers I've seen were all fast release, and so may be what your grass/situation needs, or it may not be. A slow release product is more expensive, but feeds the lawn more consistently over a longer period of time.

A soil test will let you know if you need to apply P and/or K, but otherwise you may be spending money on product you don't really need. If you aren't going to get a soil test, then a balanced fertilizer app either in Spring or Fall is a good idea to replenish the nutrients your grass uses. If you don't already know, the goal is usually to apply 1lb of N per 1000 sf of lawn. For the 13-13-13, you would apply 7.69 lbs per 1000sf to apply one pound of N, P, and K.


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

Spammage said:


> @nateredmon 13-13-13 are just numbers to represent the N (nitrogen), P (phosphorus), and K (potassium) percentage in the fertilizer. With the same numbers, this is considered a balanced fertilizer. Most of the 13-13-13 fertilizers I've seen were all fast release, and so may be what your grass/situation needs, or it may not be. A slow release product is more expensive, but feeds the lawn more consistently over a longer period of time.
> 
> A soil test will let you know if you need to apply P and/or K, but otherwise you may be spending money on product you don't really need. If you aren't going to get a soil test, then a balanced fertilizer app either in Spring or Fall is a good idea to replenish the nutrients your grass uses. If you don't already know, the goal is usually to apply 1lb of N per 1000 sf of lawn. For the 13-13-13, you would apply 7.69 lbs per 1000sf to apply one pound of N, P, and K.


What should the setting on my broadcast spreader be on to achieve the numbers you listed?


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

nateredmon said:


> Spammage said:
> 
> 
> > @nateredmon 13-13-13 are just numbers to represent the N (nitrogen), P (phosphorus), and K (potassium) percentage in the fertilizer. With the same numbers, this is considered a balanced fertilizer. Most of the 13-13-13 fertilizers I've seen were all fast release, and so may be what your grass/situation needs, or it may not be. A slow release product is more expensive, but feeds the lawn more consistently over a longer period of time.
> ...


That question has way to many variables for me to give you an answer. Is it a rotary spreader or drop spreader, is the prill small or large, will you be making one pass or two, etc. Most fertilizer products have recommended spreader settings on the back of the bag for some of the most popular spreader types. If it does, that will hopefully help you figure out what setting you need to use. You may get some help from the spreader operator's manual if you can find one.

Until you get a basis, I would start with a lower setting, go over the entire yard (you will need to measure the yard to know how much product you need), and then evaluate how much product you applied at a given setting and adjust accordingly. If you are concerned about it, buy a bag of Milorganite as a test run, because you can't really use to much of it. Once you get a feel for it, you will be able to adjust in the future based on the product prill size and quantity being applied.


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

Just wanted to give an update on my grass situation. I'm noticing a lot of green sprouts of grass all over the yard, so it looks like the insecticide worked on the worms.

I showed a picture of the worms to my landscaping guy and he called them "sod web worms" and said that they fall from the trees during the fall? Not sure, but he's giving me a gallon of a liquid insecticide tomorrow to use in a sprayer. So my question would be whether or not I can or should use it so soon after putting down the other stuff. Please advise...

Otherwise, it looks like my worries can ease.


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## ajmikola (Feb 18, 2017)

Shade is kryptonite to sod. That looks like enough shade for cool season grass.........


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

nateredmon said:


> Just wanted to give an update on my grass situation. I'm noticing a lot of green sprouts of grass all over the yard, so it looks like the insecticide worked on the worms.
> 
> I showed a picture of the worms to my landscaping guy and he called them "sod web worms" and said that they fall from the trees during the fall? Not sure, but he's giving me a gallon of a liquid insecticide tomorrow to use in a sprayer. So my question would be whether or not I can or should use it so soon after putting down the other stuff. Please advise...
> 
> Otherwise, it looks like my worries can ease.


You have to tell us what kind he is giving you before we can make any determination on when you should use it. Remember you will have to apply insecticide more than once because worms hatch at different stages.


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

Tellycoleman said:


> nateredmon said:
> 
> 
> > Just wanted to give an update on my grass situation. I'm noticing a lot of green sprouts of grass all over the yard, so it looks like the insecticide worked on the worms.
> ...


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## slomo (Jun 22, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> Welcome to TLF!!!
> 
> How soon until you move into the house? See if your landscaper can fertilize it once all the heavy rain stops in your area or if you can do it yourself. Most likely the sod got a lot of it's nutrients washed away with all the rain and since it most likely has very shallow roots there isn't a lot of area for it to pull nutrients from. A good balance fertilizer like 10-10-10 or a dedicated starter fertilizer would be best to use. Your landscaper is correct that bermuda is HARD to kill especially once it's established.


What, no world famous Milorganite? LOL

slomo


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## slomo (Jun 22, 2017)

nateredmon said:


> Has anyone used 13-13-13 on Bermuda before? At my old house we had St Augustine and it worked wonders on that grass.


Bermuda will eat anything thrown down on it. Synthetic or organic doesn't matter. It will eat all the N you can buy.

slomo


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## nateredmon (Sep 15, 2018)

slomo said:


> nateredmon said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone used 13-13-13 on Bermuda before? At my old house we had St Augustine and it worked wonders on that grass.
> ...


I've heard of people putting ammonia in a garden sprayer and using it on Bermuda. Something about the nitrogen in the ammonia?? Is this a real thing??


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

nateredmon said:


> Has anyone used 13-13-13 on Bermuda before? At my old house we had St Augustine and it worked wonders on that grass.


The folks who did my soil test as well as others here recommended 13-13-13 for my lawn so I'm going to use it next year.


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## slomo (Jun 22, 2017)

nateredmon said:


> slomo said:
> 
> 
> > nateredmon said:
> ...


yes it's real.

slomo


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