# Would like some advice



## Bombsquad85 (Jul 26, 2021)

Hey guys, I posted my intro here https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30707
So I won't double post it.
But I was wondering if anyone can confirm this for me... my neighbor had a landscaper at his house so I asked him about clearing some brush from the back yard then he got to talking about the grass. He said all the bright grass is actually weeds and recommend a fertilizer regiment (although not through him bit through someone else). I would prefer to do the work myself due to the fact I find tending to the lawn one of my few forms of R&R lol

I'm in SE Massachusetts and seeded with Black Beauty fescue mix

Like I stated in my welcome post, I plan on dethathing, aerating and overseeding next month. But if there's anything else I could do to make the most of the mess I've been handed I'd appreciate it.


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## LawnMavrik (Sep 22, 2020)

I'm confident most of the off-color vegetation is not desirable turf but it's hard to tell from the pics what everything is. The last picture with weeds looks like Doveweed. Sorry but I can't personally recommend anything for control if that's what's growing. Before treating I would confirm.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Last picture looks like crabgrass from the other pictures it's impossible to see what weeds or undesirable grass you have. Close up pictures of any weed or undesirable grass would help


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## jingobah (May 6, 2019)

Definitely looks like crabgrass……


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## Bombsquad85 (Jul 26, 2021)

Thanks guys. I'll grab some close up shots tomorrow afternoon.


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## Bombsquad85 (Jul 26, 2021)

Here's another image. This I posted in the intro thread
Not sure if it helps


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## SnootchieBootchies (Mar 23, 2021)

Good news is that isn't poa triv!


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## Overtaxed (May 9, 2021)

That's crabgrass. You need something with quinclorac in it to get rid of that. Drive XLR8 is the normal go-to. Get some MSO (methylated seed oil) to go with it, follow the directions and hammer that stuff.

Drive is mostly selective for crabgrass. It'll kill some other stuff, but, if you have other weeds, I'd follow the Drive up with a tri mix, (Speedzone is a well known/good brand). That'll kill all the other broadleaf grasses that might be in the lawn.

Once that it done, then do your overseed. Late Aug in northern areas, mid-Sept in warmer areas (assuming you're growing cool season grass). Water is a few times a day and wait, you'll have a great lawn by the time winter rolls in.

That'll get you to "very good". If you want to go all the way, just hit the entire lawn with Roundup now, then, in 4 weeks, hit anything that came back again with Roundup. Then reseed. That'll get you a pure stand of whatever you plant, and allow you get to "OMG, look at that lawn" status if you take care of it well. Depends how far you want to go, I did the selective route in my lawn, but, if I knew then what I know now, I would have just blasted it with Roundup. My old lawn was at least 50% crabgrass and weeds. If I'd blasted it wouldn't have been much different and would have killed all the weedy grasses (I had a problem with nutgrass this spring which probably wouldn't have happened if I'd just burned everything down).

I just saw your in Mass and you reseeded last year. I'd hit the crabgrass with Drive ASAP (like immediately), let it die out, and then by the time the fall comes, you'll be ready for a reseed. If you can irrigate, I'd recommend you add some KBG (Kentucky Blue Grass) in your overseed. Scalp as low as you can get your mower, then overseed with a mix of what you already have and KBG. KBG spreads and will fill in gaps and should blend nicely with your TTTF mix.

Sorry, one more edit, I looked harder at your pictures, you have some non-crabgrass weeds too. I'd go with Speedzone (or any tri-mix) along with the Drive to clear out the other weeds.

How "good" do you want it to be? The better you want it, the more work and the more extreme your methods will need to get.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

That crabgrass will die off with the first frost this late fall but will come back next year even worse. You can start killing it off now then around labor day do a heavy over seed after a de thatch. This winter come up with a pre M plan also know as crabgrass preventer and get your hands on the supplies for it and apply early spring this is extremely important or your back to a crabgrass festival next summer all over again.


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## Bombsquad85 (Jul 26, 2021)

Overtaxed said:


> That's crabgrass. You need something with quinclorac in it to get rid of that. Drive XLR8 is the normal go-to. Get some MSO (methylated seed oil) to go with it, follow the directions and hammer that stuff.
> 
> Drive is mostly selective for crabgrass. It'll kill some other stuff, but, if you have other weeds, I'd follow the Drive up with a tri mix, (Speedzone is a well known/good brand). That'll kill all the other broadleaf grasses that might be in the lawn.
> 
> ...


Ok wow! Thank you that is a lot to digest.

I guess I would like the balance of wow and very good but at somewhat of a budget lol.

What is this drive and speed zone? I'm new to the lawn care lifestyle bit I'm digging it. I've always loved having a nice lawn.

Where do I get drive and speed zone. I'd like to apply it asap and then seed before winter comes so that I am set up better for the spring.

I dont think my wife would be pleased with me if I sprayed round up everywhere... at least not this year lol. Between loam, tool rentals, seed and fertilizer I wish I never got I'm in over $1000 this year lol (I realize that might be pennies to the dollar to some lol)

But again thank you for the informative response ill have to read it a couple times.

Also thank you to everyone else!

As far as the speedzone and drive are these the right products?

SpeedZone Lawn Weed Killer Boadleaf Herbicide 20 Oz. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C4Y24RM/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_6T2RSAJNY3T137WNAAN9

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0058W42QS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_A20DZVMD0DXE442GW6Z0


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## Bombsquad85 (Jul 26, 2021)

M32075 said:


> That crabgrass will die off with the first frost this late fall but will come back next year even worse. You can start killing it off now then around labor day do a heavy over seed after a de thatch. This winter come up with a pre M plan also know as crabgrass preventer and get your hands on the supplies for it and apply early spring this is extremely important or your back to a crabgrass festival next summer all over again.


What do you recommend for a pre M plan?

Before I seeded in the spring I put a crabgrass preventer down.... apparently that didn't work lol. I do have some left over so maybe I didn't apply enough? I applied it per the directions on the bag.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Bombsquad85 said:


> M32075 said:
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> > That crabgrass will die off with the first frost this late fall but will come back next year even worse. You can start killing it off now then around labor day do a heavy over seed after a de thatch. This winter come up with a pre M plan also know as crabgrass preventer and get your hands on the supplies for it and apply early spring this is extremely important or your back to a crabgrass festival next summer all over again.
> ...


Since you're new to lawn care keep it simple for now I recommend Lesco stonewall 0.68 you can pick it up at your local Lowe's. Remember that a application of crabgrass preventer in the spring will stop your spring over seed from germinating. Crabgrass preventer in the spring and over seed in the fall and you will have a great lawn with some fertilizer applied a few times a year.


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## Bombsquad85 (Jul 26, 2021)

M32075 said:


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So should I plan onthat stuff in the spring and skip the overseed this fall? Or continue with the plan to overseed this fall and apply the stonewall in the spring?

And what's the difference between the stonewall and the Drive XLR8 recommended above?


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Drive is a selective crabgrass killer and stonewall is a preventative. Stonewall will not kill your existing crabgrass. Me personally would roundup anything growing on your lawn that's not grass . After it dies off de thatch and over seed this late summer. Next early spring put down the stone wall and probably a split application of it. Right now concentrate on killing the crabgrass and your over seed. Over the winter you can read up on your pre M plan


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## Bombsquad85 (Jul 26, 2021)

M32075 said:


> Drive is a selective crabgrass killer and stonewall is a preventative. Stonewall will not kill your existing crabgrass. Me personally would roundup anything growing on your lawn that's not grass . After it dies off de thatch and over seed this late summer. Next early spring put down the stone wall and probably a split application of it. Right now concentrate on killing the crabgrass and your over seed. Over the winter you can read up on your pre M plan


Gotcha. Thanks.

So I think what I'm going to do since I have a lot of crabgrass mixed in, I don't think I'm going to round up because I'd basically be killing the entire yard. I think I'm going to try Drive and spray everything. I have some sprayers I could use. Then seed at the end of the month. Then I'll put the stonewall down in the spring. Sorry might be a dumb question, but what do you mean a split application of it?


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

I like the plan. You will apply stone wall twice through the growing season to get full crabgrass preventative coverage . After the early spring application you will apply again about 10 weeks later.


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## Bombsquad85 (Jul 26, 2021)

M32075 said:


> I like the plan. You will apply stone wall twice through the growing season to get full crabgrass preventative coverage . After the early spring application you will apply again about 10 weeks later.


Thank you.

Side note. I took some more pictures of some spots with weeds. As you can see there is a large section of my lawn that was part of the "reno" this past spring that looks to be taken over by crabgrass


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Bombsquad85 said:


> M32075 said:
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Drive will kill the clover and definitely all if not most of the weeds


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## Bombsquad85 (Jul 26, 2021)

M32075 said:


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Awesome thanks for that. I've been seeing a lot about tenacity across YouTube but not much of Drive (at least by brand name) but that was one of the first (if not the first) recommendations for me. Maybe I'll go with Drive and maybe use Tenacity as a Pre E?


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Bombsquad85 said:


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Tenacity at seed down is a good idea if you want to do it I personally never used tenacity . I personally never used drive but I'm guessing it's a faster kill of crabgrass and weeds then tenacity. As far as using tenacity as a weed and crabgrass killer it's a bad decision there's much better and faster products.


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## Bombsquad85 (Jul 26, 2021)

M32075 said:


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I've noticed that. I searched tenacity here and saw some conflicting info to what I've sen on YouTube. And according to the Herbicide thread here looks like drive XLR8 and a pre e would be best suited for me. I'm going to try the stonewall stuff in the spring.

Basically looks my plan of action consist of spraying drive, waiting a couple weeks, dethatch, and over seed. Then in the early spring put down the stonewall and then some fertilizer (which I will need to research for the spring time).

I really hope its a mild winter as far as snow is cconcerned .


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Bombsquad85 said:


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It's a good basic doable plan and you should like the results. After two weeks check your weed and crabgrass situation if you still have some spray again for the complete kill. I'm not sure if you have a irrigation system if not your going to have to figure something out your going to need to keep that seed moist for about two weeks. Also I highly recommend starting a journal guys here in this forum will help you out with any hiccups that hit. Start it soon put in your pictures and game plan for feedback before you pull the trigger


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## Bombsquad85 (Jul 26, 2021)

Ok and another question... is there any reason I would go with this over say.... food coloring haha

Liquid Harvest Lazer Blue Concentrated Spray Pattern Indicator 8 Ounces Perfect Weed Spray Dye, Herbicide Dye, Fertilizer Marking Dye, Turf Mark and Blue Herbicide Marker https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01G7M309M/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_K18K8NR372TX9838DETB?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I would like to see what I spray so I don't double up on it


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## Bombsquad85 (Jul 26, 2021)

M32075 said:


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Thank you!

I will keep the pictures going.

I dont have an irrigation system, my town actually just passed a ruling that you need to have a well dug for future irrigation systems...    but I have sprinklers and I'm actually planning on a DIY irrigation system

How long is it typically normal to wait to seed after Drive?


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

As per product label 7 days prior to seeding or 28 day's post seeding. The sooner the better but it also has a heat warning to use below 80 degrees or could harm good grass you want to keep. I think it's no big deal you're over seeding anyway


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## Bombsquad85 (Jul 26, 2021)

M32075 said:


> As per product label 7 days prior to seeding or 28 day's post seeding. The sooner the better but it also has a heat warning to use below 80 degrees or could harm good grass you want to keep. I think it's no big deal you're over seeding anyway


Good to know. Thanks. I haven't looked at the label yet. I'm gonna try to order it this weekend.

Do you have any opinion of the dye?

There's. High probability that I will get pulled away from spraying to deal with my 4 month old or 5 year old so I'd like to keep a tab on where I left off. I just don't know if it's necessary to buy the laser Dye or if simple food coloring would suffice


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Bombsquad85 said:


> M32075 said:
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> > As per product label 7 days prior to seeding or 28 day's post seeding. The sooner the better but it also has a heat warning to use below 80 degrees or could harm good grass you want to keep. I think it's no big deal you're over seeding anyway
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That I have no clue. I would go check a website called Do my own.com they carry Drive xlr8 and loaded with good information on it and how to apply and other products you might need with it.


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## Overtaxed (May 9, 2021)

I use something called Dynamark. Get it at Tractor Supply, it's blue. It's still kind of hard to see. The good news, at least from my experience, Drive isn't terrible toxic to good grass. If you overlap a bit, it's not the end of the world.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/dynamark-blue-spray-indicator-1-qt

As others have said, no PreM this year. Drive (maybe twice to get it all) with some Trimec will smoke any non-grass weed. Then hit it with your seed, then, around Feb, drop your first dose of PreM. That'll keep the poa from germinating in the spring and all your grass will be up by then, so you won't hurt germination.

While Drive will kill most stuff, I'd honestly hit it with both Trimec and Drive. You'll need Trimec anyway next year to kill any broadleafs that come up. Honestly, Drive is so special purpose, that's the one that I'd try not to buy, but, in your case, you need it because of all the crabgrass. I use Drive rarely now, but I use Trimec all the time to clear out any garbage that gets in the yard. Probably 1-2X a month, I'll do some spot spraying, and it's almost always Trimec, occasionally with some Drive in there if I'm seeing any crabgrass. Believe it or not, crabgrass is really easy to control, preM will stop almost all of it from coming up, and Drive will smoke any that makes it through. The nasty stuff is the grassy weeds, those are much harder to get rid of. Clover and crabgrass, the 2 most common problems in many lawns are also the easiest to fix.

I'd skip Tenacity for now. That's a bit of a special product, it's not really a general purpose thing. People use it for a lot of stuff, but there are better chemicals for most problems. I have bottle upon bottle of chemicals for my lawn, garden and farm. I have no Tenacity, I've never needed it. Trimec to blast broadleaf, Drive for crabgrass, Sulfentrazone for nut grasses, more fungicides than I care to mention. Tenacity is nice because it hits a lot of stuff, but it's really not necessary for what you're trying to do.

Shopping list:

Drive XLR8
https://www.domyown.com/drive-xlr8-herbicide-crabgrass-killer-p-1520.html

Trimec:
https://www.domyown.com/gordons-trimec-classic-broadleaf-herbicide-p-10321.html

MSO (mix it in with the Drive):
https://www.domyown.com/prime-source-duo-stick-p-12239.html

-or-

Trimec with Drive already mixed in:
https://www.domyown.com/trimec-crabgrass-concentrate-p-21919.html
(this is more expensive per sq/ft, but if your lawn isn't that big, it might be a good option)

<drop seed>

And then in the late winter, drop this:
https://www.domyown.com/prodiamine-65-wdg-generic-barricade-p-2495.html

That'll keep the crabgrass from coming back next year. You'll probably want to do Prodiamine in the late winter and then again in the early summer to get good control of the annual weeds.

Wait till you get into fungicides, that's when these lists get crazy.


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## jingobah (May 6, 2019)

Skip the Tenacity, it's painfully slow to kill anything. Just kill the crabgrass now, use what has been recommended above, you have time even if it takes a couple applications, no need to use round up at all. There may be some grass beneath those weeds or not. Overseed in the fall, feed it, any crabgrass that pops back up will die in the winter, !!!apply a pre-m in the spring!!!… feed it, BOOM….


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## Bombsquad85 (Jul 26, 2021)

Overtaxed said:


> I use something called Dynamark. Get it at Tractor Supply, it's blue. It's still kind of hard to see. The good news, at least from my experience, Drive isn't terrible toxic to good grass. If you overlap a bit, it's not the end of the world.
> 
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/dynamark-blue-spray-indicator-1-qt
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> ...


Thank you all. So much great info!


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## M1SF1T (Jun 1, 2021)

I'd definitely apply a full spray of a 3 way herbicide plus quinclorac.

Q4 is a 3 way with quinclorac if you want an all in one product, but you can tank mix a 3 way with quinclorac too if you want the option to spray them separately.

Get a surfactant too.


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