# CitraBlue St. Augustine



## ktgrok

Anyone actually seen or used this, or have any experience with it? I like the improved disease resistance, and the more lateral growth. I need something to put in the kids play area in the backyard, mostly full sun but a bit gets some shade from oaks, fence, etc. If I like it I'll see how shade tolerant it is and consider extending it into other areas where the dogs run.


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## CenlaLowell

Your going to remove the st Augustine you have?? The reason I ask is because this variety probably won't produce the same color as your turf now. They're selling it online also.

https://sodsolutions.com/product/citrablue-st-augustine-plugs/


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## ktgrok

I don't have St. Augustine. I had Bahia, then killed it and planted Rye for the winter. Now I've killed off the Rye and need to put down a warm season grass. Because other areas of the yard are more shaded, it makes sense to put St. augustine down versus the bermuda I was going to do, so I can have the same throughout the yard. (rest of the yard is Bahia and dirt/weeds)


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## lambert

If I were installing St. Augustine in Florida I'd go with Floratam.


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## ktgrok

lambert said:


> If I were installing St. Augustine in Florida I'd go with Floratam.


That was my original plan, but the disease resistance of the CitraBlue is very very tempting. And it was designed by UF, so local, and tested in local areas. So many lawns battle fungus that something more resistant would be great. (not to mention the whole viral whatever it is that kills floratam).

It supposedly is more shade tolerant than Palmetto as well, from what I'm hearing.


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## ionicatoms

I haven't seen it yet, but the information put out by UF looks really good. I was thinking ProVista but having second thoughts.


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## lambert

ktgrok said:


> lambert said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I were installing St. Augustine in Florida I'd go with Floratam.
> 
> 
> 
> That was my original plan, but the disease resistance of the CitraBlue is very very tempting. And it was designed by UF, so local, and tested in local areas. So many lawns battle fungus that something more resistant would be great. (not to mention the whole viral whatever it is that kills floratam).
> 
> It supposedly is more shade tolerant than Palmetto as well, from what I'm hearing.
Click to expand...

Looks interesting. Hopefully it will prove to be as good as advertised.


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## ktgrok

I want to say Floratam is the only other St. Augustine designed at least in part by UF, but can that be right? If so, Floratam sure stood the test of time, even if it didn't hold on to its chinch bug resistance, etc.


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## CenlaLowell

Being resistance to disease is a really good thing. Interesting....

It's sold in plugs so we already have an example of how to grow it in thanks to Allyn Hane. How much area are you going to plug @ktgrok


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## CenlaLowell

ionicatoms said:


> I haven't seen it yet, but the information put out by UF looks really good. I was thinking ProVista but having second thoughts.


Are you planning on removing what you have or just plugging bare areas??


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## ktgrok

I am going to get a pallet of sod, not plugs...don't want to deal with the weeds while waiting for plugs to grow in, and it's only a smallish area. I've already killed everything off - just need to put something down. I have bermdua seed, but that would mean keeping the kids off of the area even longer, and with the whole stay at home thing with the pandemic I'd like them to be able to get out there to play ASAP. Plus, the rest of the yard has more shade than bermuda will tolerate, so I'd have to do two different things if I put bermuda in the play area.


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## ionicatoms

CenlaLowell said:


> ionicatoms said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen it yet, but the information put out by UF looks really good. I was thinking ProVista but having second thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you planning on removing what you have or just plugging bare areas??
Click to expand...

If I can't beat this bermuda, I'm going to renovate with something else.


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## CenlaLowell

ionicatoms said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ionicatoms said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen it yet, but the information put out by UF looks really good. I was thinking ProVista but having second thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you planning on removing what you have or just plugging bare areas??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I can't beat this bermuda, I'm going to renovate with something else.
Click to expand...

 Bermuda definitely can be overtaken. The question is how much time and money are you willing to put into it


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## ionicatoms

I ordered CitraBlue plugs tonight. I'll get them in the ground and provide updates going forward.


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## turbopenguin

Congrats! I just installed Citrablue sod on the 11th and loving it so far. Noticeably darker green/blue tint than my neighbors st Augustine. It also grows considerably slower


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## ionicatoms

@turbopenguin thanks, I'm just doing a test at this time, not a full reno. Can you give us some photos of your CitraBlue from the street from time to time?

I am under the impression that CitraBlue is a very stable, consistent-looking grass throughout the year, even if not the absolute best looking grass at certain points in time.


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## CenlaLowell

ionicatoms said:


> I ordered CitraBlue plugs tonight. I'll get them in the ground and provide updates going forward.


Good send some pics and information because I'm curious about this


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## Greyleafspot

They always say it's improved when they come out with a new type. Palmetto was supposed to be amazing. Floratam is better hands down


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## ionicatoms

@Greyleafspot I have to disagree with you a little bit there. Palmetto has its particular advantages over Floratam. My lawn will look awesome over the winter in comparison to my neighbors who have Floratam. It is more shade tolerant too. On the flip side, Palmetto doesn't seem to be as robust as Floratam when it comes to disease and stress. Its color isn't deep green over the summer. So I would say there are certainly reasons why a person might choose one over the other.

As for CitraBlue, I think it's too soon to dismiss as marketing hype. The data I've seen is pretty impressive.


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## ionicatoms

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0PZAyzbfWQ[/media]


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## Buffalolawny

Should have a good idea what you are dealing with after 2 months after sod install.

From the stress from harvest, transport, laying, growing of the new roots and stolons. And with the added weather involved.

I wonder if its along the strain of buffalo like Buffalo - Shademaster - Matilda

https://www.turffinder.com/varieties/shademaster

https://www.turffinder.com/varieties/matilda

https://buffaloreview.com.au/compare-turf


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## ktgrok

How is the densitity compared to floratam and palmetto?


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## ktgrok

Greyleafspot said:


> They always say it's improved when they come out with a new type. Palmetto was supposed to be amazing. Floratam is better hands down


If you had an area with dogs and shade..say between the fence and the house, side yard, with some oaks at one end - would you still do floratam vs palmetto? The zoysia I put in the backyard is great on the side fenced off for the kids - but in the dog area is getting destroyed. It just can't grow fast enough to overtake the damage, and it is so dense that the urine scalds it fast, versus trickling through like seems to happen in st. augustine. (that's the theory I've read, as to why st. augustine handles dog pee better than bermuda and zoysia anyway).

Plus, if I have to replace patches here and there it is cheaper and easier to grab a few pieces of st. augustine sod than to get my hands on a few pieces of palisades sod around here. So thinking I may replace that area with st. augustine, and do the side of the yard in the front of the house as well, as I planted bermuda there but it doesn't get enough sun for bermuda.


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## ionicatoms

@ktgrok I don't know. Slide 21 of this presentation says "Increased canopy density" but it's not clear how that is determined.

My Palmetto loves the shade under my oak; I wouldn't expect it to do well with dogs; but I don't have have any to know for sure.


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## turbopenguin

Here's some pics of mine. Sod was installed on 9/11. First pic is 7 days after install. The rest were taken yesterday/today. 
Looking at the last 3 pictures, I think I'm definitely having some issues with fungus/insects. Any help would be appreciated.

#4 and #5 are in the front, near the garage. Does this look like insect damage? Sod webworms?

Picure #6 is on the side of the house that does not get much sunlight. It has also been raining a ton here lately so it's getting real nasty. No idea what it is but I'm guessing a fungus of some sort.

1. 

2. 

3. 

4. 

5. 

6.


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## ionicatoms

Firstly, I think it looks gorgeous. I love that deep green color.

I don't see signs of webworm. I'm not sure what's going on with those spots. I hope we get some answers!


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## ionicatoms

Got my flat of CitraBlue in today. Was very surprised to find snails in it!













[media]https://youtu.be/KMur8n5luYg[/media]

I just sent an email to Sod Solutions. Will see what they say.


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## turbopenguin

Wow that is pretty wild! Wonder what they'll say. Grass is looking good though!

Not to hijack your thread again, but I lifted up a few pieces along the edge of my property that aren't doing too well and found some grubs I think. I lifted 4 pieces (not difficult to lift at all, no roots apparently) and found a grub under 3 of them. Is this a sign of a bigger problem/possible infestation?

I put down Triazicide (Spectracide hose spray) and Bifenthrin (ortho bug b gone hose spray) on 9/13. On 10/4, I saw a bunch of moths as I walked through the grass so I put down GrubEx and another application of Triazicide. Confused how these guys are even here!


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## ionicatoms

@turbopenguin

From MSU Extension:



> Do not use products containing ONLY lambda-cyhalothrin, gamma-cyhalothrin, bifenthrin, deltamethrin, cyfluthrin or permethrin for grub control. Products containing only these ingredients will not work for grub control because the active ingredient binds with organic material and will not move down to where the grubs are feeding. These products work well for above-ground feeding insects that live on the grass leaves or soil surface, but not for insects that feed on the roots.


Read section 2 for products that will work.

You might try a root growth stimulator to get the rooting to kick in to gear.


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## turbopenguin

@ionicatoms Wow, I feel like I've been duped! Thank you for the link and info!
Any suggestions on RGS? I put down some carbon pro g that I picked up from siteone a couple weeks ago.


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## ionicatoms

I couldn't say. I would consider whatever products are specifically labeled for root growth. For my plugs, I'll use milorganite.


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## ionicatoms

ionicatoms said:


> Got my flat of CitraBlue in today. Was very surprised to find snails in it!


Ok, so this is a follow-up. Sod Solutions still hasn't e-mailed me back. I called up the farm shown on the label (Todd Valley, which has their own website and it appears you can order directly from them at a lower price) and the receptionist took my complaint and called me back a few hours later after speaking with the greenhouse manager. He said the snails would die on their own and I didn't need to do anything. Well, maybe it's true. I had to go to Ace for another reason, so I checked what they had on hand. They had two options for $10. One product was iron phosphate, the other was sulfur based. I decided to buy neither.

Instead I sprayed 32 oz of water mixed with 1/4 oz of palm national over the flat last night. I haven't seen any snails since. I planted my first plugs tonight. Will do more tomorrow.


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## Oillife

Literally made an account to discuss Citrablue. I bought plugs back in March and compared to Floratam it's an incredibly slow grower. Everything you've read about it is true regarding drought, shade, color and fungal resistance but if you can bet it won't be filling in very fast.


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## ionicatoms

How far apart were your plugs on install? How much N did you feed it this year?


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## Oillife

12 inches apart, not exactly sure on the precise N levels but it got a quarter bag of Milorganite and plenty of backyard chicken manure. It is supposed to be a slower grower which will work out perfectly once it's filled in.


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## Rogers1

I have a video of citrablue on YouTube. It's still holding up good. But in one particular spot I know for sure I packed top soil too heavy and it's in the shade and it doesn't like it at all. So it thinned out and look like fungus. I knew it like well drained sandy soil so that was on my part. I likes water a little more than advertised too but don't over do it. I'm on the Mississippi gulf coast and it can get dry from time to time. I also fertilized it with malorganite and it seems to love it. Another thing is I ordered grass plugs as well before I laid my sod and a lot of weeds grew in between them but now they are aggressively overtaking the weeds. It's really good turf you just have to do your maintenance to keep it looking good.


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## Darth_V8r

ktgrok said:


> The zoysia I put in the backyard is great on the side fenced off for the kids - but in the dog area is getting destroyed. It just can't grow fast enough to overtake the damage, and it is so dense that the urine scalds it fast, versus trickling through like seems to happen in st. augustine. (that's the theory I've read, as to why st. augustine handles dog pee better than bermuda and zoysia anyway).


This has been the opposite of my experience with SA. The dog pee flat destroys it. Sometimes I swear it just dies pre-emptively while the dog is sniffing for the perfect spot. The zenith I have been plugging with has tolerated it far better. Maybe I'm doing something wrong...


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## ionicatoms

*Update on the CitraBlue plugs from Todd Valley. *

I planted the plugs on Oct 10. Here's where they are at 6 weeks later.

Left side is "After," right side is "Before."









Top is "before," bottom is "After."



So far, I really like it. It's showing good potential. I'm really excited to see where it's at by the beginning of summer. The color is really interesting.


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## ionicatoms

Update on CitraBlue test spot at the property boundary. It's doing very well.


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## Sfladodson

I put in 1700 sq ft in last sept. It is a slow grower and is not as shade tolerant as advertised. I started mowing mine at 3 inches and then bumped it up to the top setting and it is doing much better. I have two large dogs and they tear it up pretty easy and the urine spots take forever to fill in. I haven't had any issues with water and seems to be pretty drought tolerant. It lives up to the disease resistance because I had to treat my floratam in my front three to four times more during the rainy season this year. I did have some issues with sod webworms from the farm but that was easily cured.


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## Darth_V8r

ionicatoms said:


> Update on CitraBlue test spot at the property boundary. It's doing very well.


Really appreciate all the info you've shared on this so far. How are you seeing the CB compete vs the palmetto? How has the CB done so far this winter?


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## ionicatoms

Too soon to see any competition pressure. I'll probably know more by summer.

Winter performance has been really good. All three test spots retained their color. I read that with CB, there are times during the year when other grasses will look better, but CB is supposedly very consistent throughout the year. My winter results seem to corroborate that allegation. My wife doesn't like how low it is right now; it's obviously different from standard St. Aug. in terms of its growth habit. I told her to reserve judgment until it fills in and grows out to about 3". We will see.

So far, I'm optimistic.


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## ionicatoms

Sprayed one of my CitraBlue test spots (the one by the driveway) with Atrazine, Ethofumesate and MSO today. Will let you guys know if anything weird happens.


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## ionicatoms

ionicatoms said:


> Sprayed one of my CitraBlue test spots (the one by the driveway) with Atrazine, Ethofumesate and MSO today. Will let you guys know if anything weird happens.


No harm so far. I think it might be time to throw some milorganite on these spots. They did very well over the winter.


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## ionicatoms

Well, the Oak has been dumping leaves all over my front yard. But here's another update on the CitraBlue. It's really looking good!


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## mjh648

that's a fat stolon


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## ionicatoms

One week since last update on the three test spots.

By the driveway:


Color contrast is pretty evident:


Filling in slowly:


More fat stolons for @mjh648:


Out by the street, at the property boundary. Harder to see the difference in this location.


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## mjh648

had some very large stolons at the end of last years growing season. So large that they would just stick up in some areas of the yard because of how rigid they were. Went around and place about 40 rocks in my yard to try to get them to attach. Had a potash and lime application with some organic fertilizer. Wonder what was the leading factor of that.


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## bags402

Hey! I literally just made an account because info seems so scarce on CitraBlue and this topic is by far the most informative Ive seen in my weeks long search! Im about to cover the backyard in my recently bought home with it and I have some questions. How would you actually rate the shade tolerance, compared to how its advertised as the most shade tolerant variety? I have a large tree on one side of my yard that covers a lot of my lawn, but most of my lawn gets at least some sunlight as the day goes by.


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## ionicatoms

Welcome @bags402

@Sfladodson reported that it's not as shade tolerant as advertised. I have one test spot in a shady area (by the street) and it is doing fine so far. I guess you could say the jury is still out.


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## ionicatoms

Another YouTube report on a new CitraBlue installation.

https://youtu.be/BGHCbnfNzMg


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## bags402

Thanks for the resource. Its really a shame how few testimonials there are about this grass, I guess since its only been out for a few months.

Maybe Ill start a channel and give weekly updates on my lawn, so more people can get some info about this new strain.


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## ionicatoms

By the driveway, the CitraBlue is growing right over the top of the Bermuda (so far, it hasn't exactly been hot).



In the backyard, the CB is taking ground.



At the boundary, the CB is blending in with the Palmetto nicely.


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## Sfladodson

bags402 said:


> Hey! I literally just made an account because info seems so scarce on CitraBlue and this topic is by far the most informative Ive seen in my weeks long search! Im about to cover the backyard in my recently bought home with it and I have some questions. How would you actually rate the shade tolerance, compared to how its advertised as the most shade tolerant variety? I have a large tree on one side of my yard that covers a lot of my lawn, but most of my lawn gets at least some sunlight as the day goes by.


As long as you have some direct sun during the day you should be good. I installed 1600 sq ft last sept and the only issue I have is near my fence which runs east to west. The strip near the fence is very sparse but it gets 1 hour of direct sunlight at best. The fungus resistance is great. Already had to put 2 apps on my floratam but nothing on the citra blue so far with no issues.


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## ionicatoms

It's raining today. Was looking out the window and was a little surprised by the CitraBlue patch standing out so much among the Palmetto.


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## CenlaLowell

ionicatoms said:


> It's raining today. Was looking out the window and was a little surprised by the CitraBlue patch standing out so much among the Palmetto.


That wild it looks totally different. So it looks like it won't match any other type of st Augustine


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## Darth_V8r

CenlaLowell said:


> ionicatoms said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's raining today. Was looking out the window and was a little surprised by the CitraBlue patch standing out so much among the Palmetto.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That wild it looks totally different. So it looks like it won't match any other type of st Augustine
Click to expand...

I had ordered plugs a few weeks back, and they showed up Thursday. It definitely will not blend in with Palmetto. As long as it outcompetes the palmetto, I don't care. I don't know much about the other varieties. When you're looking at it side by side, the blade on citrablue seems about 50% again thicker than the palmetto blade.


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## Sfladodson

Here are a couple pictures of mine. This was laid last Sept. The ones near the fence are shaded almost all day. Fence runs east to west and neighbors trees are grown up on the other side. Also ignore the oxalis. I am taking care of that this weekend.


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## Darth_V8r

Looks great @Sfladodson -- what has your maintenance regimen looked like so far?


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## Sfladodson

Darth_V8r said:


> Looks great @Sfladodson -- what has your maintenance regimen looked like so far?


Very little so far. I will being spraying the oxalis this week. Mostly just spoon feeding with propeat and liquid fert. every 3 or so weeks and insecticide every 3 months. Plus the usual humic and sea kelp whenever I feel the need to spray something. So far no fungicide whereas my floratam has been treated twice this year. I see gray leaf spot every now and then but it grows out without any issues.


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## ionicatoms

ionicatoms said:


> Another YouTube report on a new CitraBlue installation.


Here's a 3week update. Doesn't look as good as @Sfladodson, but looks great considering how new it is.

[media]https://youtu.be/Wx8_QjJU82A[/media]


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## Live Oak

ionicatoms said:


> ionicatoms said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another YouTube report on a new CitraBlue installation.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a 3week update. Doesn't look as good as @Sfladodson, but looks great considering how new it is.
> 
> [media]https://youtu.be/Wx8_QjJU82A[/media]
Click to expand...

That filled out pretty nicely relative to his first video. I've thought about it and think I'm going to hold off on CitraBlue plugs and wait until sod is available in my area (TX...might be a while) so I can do the whole yard in one go. In the meantime, I'm gonna plug some areas that did not survive the freeze with Palmetto, assuming it's still considered the most shade tolerant of SA varieties?


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## ionicatoms

My Palmetto is happiest in the shade.


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## ionicatoms

Backyard:









Property boundary:



By driveway (I don't understand why the photo is colored the way it is - looks greener in real life):


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## CenlaLowell

Will it blend well? It doesn't look like it from those pics.


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## ionicatoms

CenlaLowell said:


> Will it blend well? It doesn't look like it from those pics.


I'm not sure that it will blend very well. At this point, the best indicator of its blending capability is at the property boundary. I imagine that if I repeated the plugging process throughout the Palmetto, I would probably end up with a mottled appearance because the color of the CitraBlue is observably different. That being said, I think it looks ok at the property boundary. I doubt most of my neighbors even notice the dark streak.


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## Darth_V8r

The stuff I sprigged a month ago has not yet really started to spread. If you're lucky, you won't end up with a mottled appearance, because it'll takeover and kill off the palmetto. From the pics, it does look like its winning?

Also, is there some invading bermuda in one or two of those pics also, or are those just really small leaves?


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## ionicatoms

Darth_V8r said:


> Also, is there some invading bermuda in one or two of those pics also, or are those just really small leaves?


The patch by the driveway is right in the middle of a Bermuda hotspot that I tilled up a section of for the CB plugs. The backyard is sprinkled with Bermuda. So far, the CB is growing right over the bermuda. I don't know if it is capable of choking it out our not.


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## ionicatoms

Darth_V8r said:


> From the pics, it does look like its winning?


Too soon to tell. It's doing well, but will it be thick enough to beat healthy palmetto? I don't know.


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## ionicatoms

Update on plugs.

Backyard test spot:



Front yard test spot:


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## ionicatoms

Update on plugs.

Backyard test spot:



Property boundary test spot:


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## Central_Texas_SA

It looks like the Citrablue is doing well.....I am not sure I would ever get used to the color of it. Maybe if the entire yard were the same, the color would not look so off. Is the area by the property line getting choked out by the native yard?


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## ionicatoms

Central_Texas_SA said:


> Is the area by the property line getting choked out by the native yard?


I don't think so, but I don't really have a good way to measure it. I remember planting it in a line rather than in a square, so the appearance may be deceiving. I suspect that it's going to just sort of blend in with the pre-existing Palmetto.


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## kb02gt

ionicatoms said:


> My Palmetto is happiest in the shade.


Truth. So is my Floratam.


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## ionicatoms

Property boundary test spot (now with PGR applied):


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## TampaBayFL

Bumping this thread a bit.......

I am in the process of removing my Empire Zoysia (the fungal issues are just too much) and am considering a switch to Citra Blue. I would be using sod. Does anyone have any updated experience with this cultivar when laid as sod? Ive read alot of the tech info (and even watched a 90 minute tech session with the UF turf expert who created this cultivar and the initial impression is that its a breakthrough (but of course I suspect this needs to be tempered with some reality and the "hype" recognized).

Is this truly worth considering over the time tested Floratam and Palmetto cultivars? If so, what performance areas is significantly improved over these old time varieties?


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## Redtwin

Sorry to see the Empire go. Is ProVista available in your area?


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## TampaBayFL

Redtwin said:


> Sorry to see the Empire go.


Battling this over and over has gotten old . I literally stopped babying the lawn for a little over a month and you can see the before and after. Even the golf course/resort areas that had zoysia were replaced with St Aug last year because they got tired of the hassle as well. Maybe it's just not well suited to the soil here, who knows. The community I live in is about 900 acres in total, and I don't think I ever saw a square foot of it that had Empire that consistently looked good :-(. Its too bad is it is a fantastic looking turf when it is doing well.


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## TampaBayFL

And before anyone asks, you don't even want to know how much fungicide I was applying to the lawn. It was probably unconscionable :-(. Using 3 or 4 MOAs on a stringent schedule......its just too much.


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## TampaBayFL

Redtwin said:


> Is ProVista available in your area?


Not that I have seen, but I'm going to ping some suppliers this week out of curiosity. It seems like it's decent stuff.

Edit..... looks like a supplier about half an hour for me carries it✔.


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## CenlaLowell

TampaBayFL said:


> And before anyone asks, you don't even want to know how much fungicide I was applying to the lawn. It was probably unconscionable :-(. Using 3 or 4 MOAs on a stringent schedule......its just too much.


This!!! Is definitely the reason I removed my Raleigh st Augustine. Just don't think the soil was right for it


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## GPO Man

You are going to love the ProVista. I'm a month in to re-sodding my backyard with it and it looks fantastic. I just did my second fertilizer application today.


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## TampaBayFL

GPO Man said:


> You are going to love the ProVista. I'm a month in to re-sodding my backyard with it and it looks fantastic. I just did my second fertilizer application today.


Thats great to hear....as after spending a few hours "using the Google machine to search the internets" 🤪Im learning that theres just not a huge amount of independent data out there for alot of this stuff. No one has had these newer cultivars long enough to really determine if they are a new mousetrap or not.


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## TampaBayFL

I havent bought the Provista yet.....Im
not sure I want the slower growth vs Floratam. I wont have a huge area to maintain so mowing frequently isnt a big deal. I almost think Id prefer this as a tradeoff for the rapid healing of Floratam. The slower growers (Provista being one by all accounts), if damaged, seem to take forever and a day to fill back in. Empire Zoysia already taught me about that, LOL


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## TampaBayFL

GPO Man said:


> You are going to love the ProVista. I'm a month in to re-sodding my backyard with it and it looks fantastic. I just did my second fertilizer application today.


One thing that does intrigue me about this grass quite a bit is the ability to cut it lower. Are you planning to maintain it lower than standard St Augustine?


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## TampaBayFL

I think Im going to take the plunge and try Citra Blue on my re-sod. Ive talked with a number of my neighbors as well, and I think about half a dozen may also remove their Bermuda and do the same at the same time so we may end up with a small test street of Citra Blue.


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## GPO Man

TampaBayFL said:


> GPO Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are going to love the ProVista. I'm a month in to re-sodding my backyard with it and it looks fantastic. I just did my second fertilizer application today.
> 
> 
> 
> One thing that does intrigue me about this grass quite a bit is the ability to cut it lower. Are you planning to maintain it lower than standard St Augustine?
Click to expand...

I'll keep them the same at 4". I still haven't mowed my ProVista yet and it's been almost 5 weeks.


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## Darth_V8r

I put in a bunch of test plugs of citrablue. It looks great, but seems to spread really slowly here in SC. That said, it stays nice and dark. I planted it in he middle of a large patch area to test its disease resistance, and it is definitely better than Palmetto. But after a full year, it still has not filled in the area that I plugged on 8" intervals.


----------



## ionicatoms

Darth_V8r said:


> But after a full year, it still has not filled in the area that I plugged on 8" intervals.


I'm seeing the same thing. CitraBlue may need two seasons for a full evaluation. This species seems to put most of its growth toward stolon/root/crown. The plant is very dense compared with Palmetto. You can feel the difference with your fingers. It's no wonder they think CitraBlue will hold up to wear and tear. It is a freaking beast compared to Palmetto.

Here is a sample of both.

CitraBlue on Left, Palmetto on Right


CitraBlue on Top, Palmetto on Bottom


Preliminary assessment: Plugging CitraBlue is not a practical approach.


----------



## TampaBayFL

ionicatoms said:


> Darth_V8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1649695683[/url] user_id=6604]
> But after a full year, it still has not filled in the area that I plugged on 8" intervals.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm seeing the same thing. CitraBlue may need two seasons for a full evaluation. This species seems to put most of its growth toward stolon/root/crown. The plant is very dense compared with Palmetto. You can feel the difference with your fingers. It's no wonder they think CitraBlue will hold up to wear and tear. It is a freaking beast compared to Palmetto.
> 
> Here is a sample of both.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Preliminary assessment: Plugging CitraBlue is not a practical approach.
Click to expand...




Darth_V8r said:


> I put in a bunch of test plugs of citrablue. It looks great, but seems to spread really slowly here in SC. That said, it stays nice and dark. I planted it in he middle of a large patch area to test its disease resistance, and it is definitely better than Palmetto. But after a full year, it still has not filled in the area that I plugged on 8" intervals.


This is valuable feedback, thank you for providing it. I had absolutely zero intent of going to plugging route, even if it did fill in fast there's no way I want to spend my summer pulling weeds between the plugs, lol.

My only concern with this cultivar is that if it does become damaged, the repair appears like it would be painful compared to the faster growing varieties. So, if I wimp out my Plan B approach will be to go with bitter blue. That one grows as robustly as floratam but can still can handle some shade.


----------



## TampaBayFL

In those photos above it looks like a Citra Blue has almost twice as many leaves&#129327;


----------



## ionicatoms

TampaBayFL said:


> In those photos above it looks like a Citra Blue has almost twice as many leaves🤯


I updated the post to label the samples, because I see more leaf on the Palmetto sample than on the CB, but the CB definitely has some opportunity for shortened inter-nodal distance.


----------



## TampaBayFL

ionicatoms said:


> TampaBayFL said:
> 
> 
> 
> In those photos above it looks like a Citra Blue has almost twice as many leaves🤯
> 
> 
> 
> I updated the post to label the samples, because I see more leaf on the Palmetto sample than on the CB, but the CB definitely has some opportunity for shortened inter-nodal distance.
Click to expand...

But now you have me liking that Palmetto! But, anecdotally I just seem to hear that this one is one of the more disease prone of all of the Saint Augustine.


----------



## TampaBayFL

ionicatoms said:


> TampaBayFL said:
> 
> 
> 
> In those photos above it looks like a Citra Blue has almost twice as many leaves🤯
> 
> 
> 
> I updated the post to label the samples, because I see more leaf on the Palmetto sample than on the CB, but the CB definitely has some opportunity for shortened inter-nodal distance.
Click to expand...

And my eyes probably need to be checked as the palmetto has a more blue tinge to it than the Citra on my computer screen 

The Citra looks alot stouter though.


----------



## ionicatoms

LOL yeah hard to tell by color with the samples upside down and both covered with humic.

Palmetto, when not on PGR or not "heavily" fertilized, has a lighter green color which tends toward the centipede color range. But when it's fertilized, it takes on more blues.

Overall I expect CitraBlue will have more stability in its color throughout the year.


----------



## TampaBayFL

As I look at the images more closely, the Citra certainly has a "less dainty" appearance to it.


----------



## TampaBayFL

Field of Citra Blue.


----------



## TampaBayFL

Close up of stolons.


----------



## TampaBayFL

Samples next to a perfect "lawn".😁


----------



## Redtwin

TampaBayFL said:


>


----------



## ionicatoms

LOL @Redtwin

I wonder what they are feeding that beast. Also I wonder about thatch buildup in CitraBlue.

@TampaBayFL which farm did you visit? Sometimes I visit Palm Harbor.


----------



## TampaBayFL

@Redtwin I was thinking similarly when I saw these vicious stolons in person. They are crazy thick and the farm reported that they see very aggressive horizontal growth (aka it fills in fast).


----------



## TampaBayFL

@ionicatoms they told me this field was in need of feeding as it had been a number of months. Thatch can be a problem I was told if it is maintained at the usual 4" Floratam heights. They recommend 2-2.5" max and then it is no problem. This is how they keep it in the field and it looks awesome. Its so thick its like a mat, but its not "squishy" feeling like Floratam/Bitterblue, etc are when they are thick.

This field was in Ruskin (Bay Breeze Farms). Super super nice folks there!


----------



## TampaBayFL

This horrible Zoysia mess will be all dirt within hours!


----------



## CenlaLowell

TampaBayFL said:


> This horrible Zoysia mess will be all dirt within hours!


Damn another turf bites the dust


----------



## TampaBayFL

CenlaLowell said:


> TampaBayFL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This horrible Zoysia mess will be all dirt within hours!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn another turf bites the dust
Click to expand...

Yeah.......but I honestly cant have this stuff out fast enough. Just too many issues in keeping it happy in my yard.

That said.....in order to say nice things about it at its memorial service today.........we can finish by showing it in its prime.


----------



## Redtwin

I'm sure Allyn Hane and I are both disappointed to see the Empire go away. There must be something different in the soil down there. It kicks butt up here in the panhandle.


----------



## TampaBayFL

I saw what LCNs Empire looked like on one of his recent videos......its not looking good. Looks like it was hit with fungus. The bane of Zoysia in some areas it appears.......

Its also sooooooo slow to start growing in the Spring. Compared to St. Aug its a major laggard down here.


----------



## TampaBayFL

Redtwin said:


> There must be something different in the soil down there. It kicks butt up here in the panhandle.


----------



## Redtwin

@TampaBayFL I don't have a soil test up here to compare to yours. I saw that on Allyn's last video as well. I assumed it was just a hard scalp but honestly Empire has never scalped like that for me. I asked him what was going on in the comments but he never responded. I was probably one of 100,000 comments on his video though. He mows it way too high and hasn't leveled yet out of fear of Torpedograss. My ditch is full of Torpedograss and I dare it to peak out.


----------



## TampaBayFL

@Redtwin ....pure speculation on my part, but Im wondering if in areas where Empire doesnt really go dormant that it is more susceptible to fungus (or at least looking worse because of it since its still green in the winter).

I did notice that LCN keeps the Zoysia high (I did the same sometimes for variety, and it does look kinda cool that way). It also hides thin/diseased areas better as well (and also obviously reduces the need to mow quite a bit).


----------



## TampaBayFL

Redtwin said:


> My ditch is full of Torpedograss and I dare it to peak out.


You are just itchin' to bust out the Quinclorac! I blasted torpedo in a neighbors Zoysia with it and it works like a champ. But, that stuff is persistent......


----------



## CenlaLowell

TampaBayFL said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TampaBayFL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This horrible Zoysia mess will be all dirt within hours!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn another turf bites the dust
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah.......but I honestly cant have this stuff out fast enough. Just too many issues in keeping it happy in my yard.
> 
> That said.....in order to say nice things about it at its memorial service today.........we can finish by showing it in its prime.
Click to expand...

What happened to the beautiful yard


----------



## Redtwin

My neighbor used to mow his Empire super high (3-4 inches). He had surgery one time so I mowed for him. It looked good from a distance but was a super thick and thatchy mess up close. Once I mentioned it to him he allowed me to scalp to dirt the section between his driveway and my yard. When he and the Empire recovered, he ended up scalping the rest of the yard. He now keeps it between .75" and 1.25" with his HRX. I want to say it could be that I mow lower which improves air flow but neither lawn has ever had a fungus issue at either super high or super low HOC. We are both still dealing with some remnant SA right along the property line that we are treating with Quinclorac so I think that is keeping the Torpedograss hiding in the ditch.


----------



## TampaBayFL

CenlaLowell said:


> What happened to the beautiful yard


Rhizoctonia I suspect.


----------



## TampaBayFL

Redtwin said:


> but neither lawn has ever had a fungus issue at either super high or super low HOC.


I am insanely jealous 

Every yard with Zoysia in my neighborhood has fungus to some degree.


----------



## CenlaLowell

TampaBayFL said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> but neither lawn has ever had a fungus issue at either super high or super low HOC.
> 
> 
> 
> I am insanely jealous
> 
> Every yard with Zoysia in my neighborhood has fungus to some degree.
Click to expand...

Sounds like me when I had st Augustine Raleigh.


----------



## TampaBayFL

The Citra Blue will go down this week........fingers crossed it all goes well. The samples have just been sitting on sandy soil for less than a week and they have already put out a gazzilion new roots, so I trust this stuff will adjust quickly.


----------



## ionicatoms

I'm thrilled to have an active forum user install this stuff to give us some more real life testimony.


----------



## TampaBayFL

ionicatoms said:


> I'm thrilled to have an active forum user install this stuff to give us some more real life testimony.


It will be going into at least 4 yards on my street in the next week or so.....Ill keep reporting on how it goes.


----------



## TampaBayFL




----------



## GPO Man

7 weeks after install and I still don't have to mow my ProVista. Looks beautiful.


----------



## TampaBayFL

GPO Man said:


> 7 weeks after install and I still don't have to mow my ProVista. Looks beautiful.


One of my neighbors installed Provista and another Bitter Blue at roughly the same time and the Bitter Blue looks like it has added a few inches of vertical growth and the Provista looks the same as at installation. The BB lawn doesnt even look like it was recently sodded, almost looks "normal"....the Provista still has the obvious new lawn look (where one can see the sod edges, etc).....BUT.....the patience of the provista owner will pay off in the years to come with the reduced mowing. The BB lawn will be mowed 2x/week in summer most likely.

We will see where the Citra Blue falls on this spectrum. I suspect closer to Provista. I plan to maintain at ~2" as recommended by the grower. That seems craxy to me up front, but in looking at my sample pieces, at maybe 2.5" tall, it clearly needs to be mowed.

The other weird thing about Citra is that the seed heads have this curved appearance that I dont recall seeing on other St Augustine grasses.


----------



## Darth_V8r

TampaBayFL said:


> ionicatoms said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TampaBayFL said:
> 
> 
> 
> In those photos above it looks like a Citra Blue has almost twice as many leaves🤯
> 
> 
> 
> I updated the post to label the samples, because I see more leaf on the Palmetto sample than on the CB, but the CB definitely has some opportunity for shortened inter-nodal distance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But now you have me liking that Palmetto! But, anecdotally I just seem to hear that this one is one of the more disease prone of all of the Saint Augustine.
Click to expand...

Just say "NO" to the palmetto. It spreads really good, and for a few years will do ok. About the time it looks lush and full, like it's finally arrived, here comes the disease intolerance. The only thing that has kept the diseases somewhat in check is the expensive fungicides. Like Fluopyram. You'll start losing half your yard to large patch, TARR, and anything else that comes along, like small pox and the measles. It's a frustrating turf. You can resod, and it takes off again, and then a few years later, it hits again. Some of the sod farms near here stopped selling it because they were getting too many complaints.

Do what you want, by all means, but I seriously do not recommend palmetto. It's aggressive, but not hardy.


----------



## TampaBayFL

Darth_V8r said:


> Just say "NO" to the palmetto. It spreads really good, and for a few years will do ok. About the time it looks lush and full, like it's finally arrived, here comes the disease intolerance. The only thing that has kept the diseases somewhat in check is the expensive fungicides. Like Fluopyram. You'll start losing half your yard to large patch, TARR, and anything else that comes along, like small pox and the measles. It's a frustrating turf. You can resod, and it takes off again, and then a few years later, it hits again. Some of the sod farms near here stopped selling it because they were getting too many complaints.
> 
> Do what you want, by all means, but I seriously do not recommend palmetto. It's aggressive, but not hardy.


Citra Blue is what I ended up going with. This is a small gamble (as its so new) but the reported performance (and its aesthetics) are what decided it on my end.


----------



## Nemesis

I'm heavily considering CitraBlue for my lawn. I live in the greater Tampa area, have some shaded areas in my back yard, and love the color (as well as the disease resistance). My concern is dogs. Does anyone have any experience with dogs on this grass yet? It's slow growing, so I worry about plugging the areas and then having time to recover yearly.


----------



## TampaBayFL

I dont think any St Augustine is going to stand up to active dogs.


----------



## ionicatoms

Nemesis said:


> My concern is dogs. Does anyone have any experience with dogs on this grass yet? It's slow growing, so I worry about plugging the areas and then having time to recover yearly.


Of all the St. Aug's, CitraBlue will hold up the best on resisting wear. However, if you do have wear-through, my experiments with plugging have been disappointing.... I used the small plugs (1"x1") from Sod Solutions.

It may be that the larger "super" plugs (3"x3") do better; I suspect they would. If it was me, I would maintain my own supply in an area protected from dogs/wear.


----------



## TampaBayFL

Citra Blue went down in my yard and a couple of neighbors over the weekend.


----------



## TampaBayFL




----------



## TampaBayFL

TampaBayFL said:


> The BB lawn doesnt even look like it was recently sodded, almost looks "normal".....


The bitter blue that went down in my neighborhood is unbelievable. It has been an absolute beast. It's about two weeks after being sodded and it has completely grown in and it doesn't even have any visibility of shock whatsoever. It is 100% rooted as well. I pulled on some different areas of it and it doesn't budge.


----------



## TampaBayFL

ionicatoms said:


> It may be that the larger "super" plugs (3"x3") do better; I suspect they would. If it was me, I would maintain my own supply in an area protected from dogs/wear.


You could be right about that. When I went to the sod farm and asked them how quickly their fields grow in to become sellable they said it doesn't take any longer than Floratam.


----------



## ionicatoms

TampaBayFL said:


> they said it doesn't take any longer than Floratam.


Well, I call BS even though I can't back it up. 😛


----------



## Redtwin

My parents got Bitter Blue back in the early 80s up in Citrus County about 70 miles North of @TampaBayFL. They only got enough to do three rows around their pool and it looked ridiculous but that stuff took off and filled in the rest of the yard by the following season. Is CitraBlue an improved version of Bitter Blue? If I remember correctly, Bitter Blue was advertised to be more resistant to chinchbug damage.


----------



## ionicatoms

@Redtwin

https://patents.justia.com/patent/PP32645

"FIG. 3-Shows the pedigree of the claimed plant in which it was selected as a seedling from the cross of 'NUF-216' (unpatented) and 'Floraverde'. 'NUF-216' is a seedling from 'FX-10' (U.S. Plant Pat. No. 7,852) by an unknown open-pollinated male, and 'Floraverde' resulted from the cross of 'FL-1997' (unpatented) x 'FL-1721' (unpatented)."


----------



## Redtwin

ionicatoms said:


> @Redtwin
> 
> https://patents.justia.com/patent/PP32645
> 
> "FIG. 3-Shows the pedigree of the claimed plant in which it was selected as a seedling from the cross of 'NUF-216' (unpatented) and 'Floraverde'. 'NUF-216' is a seedling from 'FX-10' (U.S. Plant Pat. No. 7,852) by an unknown open-pollinated male, and 'Floraverde' resulted from the cross of 'FL-1997' (unpatented) x 'FL-1721' (unpatented)."


----------



## ionicatoms

Redtwin said:


> Is CitraBlue an improved version of Bitter Blue?


Doesn't seem to be the case


----------



## TampaBayFL

And if you want to further geek out......on YouTube Dr. Kenworthy of UF (the patent holder) goes into further detail on the development, testing, etc of Citra Blue. Ive traded a few emails with him as well.


----------



## TampaBayFL

Redtwin said:


> and it looked ridiculous but that stuff took off and filled in the rest of the yard by the following season.


I am literally shocked at the Bitter Blue establishment rate. I think one can even hear the grass creaking as it grows.


----------



## Redtwin

TampaBayFL said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> and it looked ridiculous but that stuff took off and filled in the rest of the yard by the following season.
> 
> 
> 
> I am literally shocked at the Bitter Blue establishment rate. I think one can even hear the grass creaking as it grows.
Click to expand...

Here's a clip of Bitter Blue growing onto a police car...


----------



## TampaBayFL

The Citra is growing in alot faster than I expected. Its only been about 5 days and the sod lines are starting to blur and the growth in the middle of each piece is rather visible. In this lousy security camera photo from above it's hard to see, but the color is also notably changing as well. It is getting much bluer.


----------



## TampaBayFL

My neighborhood has been sod central in the past week. There must have been 50 pallets laid. From what I can tell, I think probably 30 were Provista, 10 were Citra Blue, and the balance Palmetto. All Bermuda (Celebration) or Zoysia (Empire) removals.


----------



## TampaBayFL

Redtwin said:


> Here's a clip of Bitter Blue growing onto a police car...


No joke! I looked at the Bitterblue lawn again today (which was planted maybe three weeks ago) and it is unbelievable..... Incredibly tall, thick and established.


----------



## GPO Man

It feels very weird spraying glyphosate all over my ProVista. Several days later, the lawn is blue/green while the wild Bermuda is turning yellow. &#128526;


----------



## ionicatoms

Looking good, @TampaBayFL!


----------



## TampaBayFL

The Citra Blue is adapting well. It looks pretty decent after about 8 days. I'm hoping after about a month it will look fully grown in. The color doesn't come through correctly on my photos (It looks more "limey" in the photos than it is in reality). I definitely notice that it has a strange and interesting blue color in the green. One can definitely spot this is some type of oddball St. Augustine from a distance. It doesn't look like any other that I am aware of. Whether that is a pro or con depends on what ones aesthetic preference is🤪


----------



## ionicatoms

I'm hoping to see it in person next time I come down!


----------



## Darth_V8r

TampaBayFL said:


> The Citra Blue is adapting well. It looks pretty decent after about 8 days. I'm hoping after about a month it will look fully grown in. The color doesn't come through correctly on my photos (It looks more "limey" in the photos than it is in reality). I definitely notice that it has a strange and interesting blue color in the green. One can definitely spot this is some type of oddball St. Augustine from a distance. It doesn't look like any other that I am aware of. Whether that is a pro or con depends on what ones aesthetic preference is🤪


picture on the bottom almost looks fake lol


----------



## GPO Man

I'm curious what the growth rate of your CitraBlue is. My ProVista hardly grows at all but it looks great. I applied Hydretain to mine yesterday as it seems a bit thirstier than my Floratam (likely because it's in the back yard baking in the sun all day.)


----------



## TampaBayFL

Darth_V8r said:


> TampaBayFL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Citra Blue is adapting well. It looks pretty decent after about 8 days. I'm hoping after about a month it will look fully grown in. The color doesn't come through correctly on my photos (It looks more "limey" in the photos than it is in reality). I definitely notice that it has a strange and interesting blue color in the green. One can definitely spot this is some type of oddball St. Augustine from a distance. It doesn't look like any other that I am aware of. Whether that is a pro or con depends on what ones aesthetic preference is🤪
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> picture on the bottom almost looks fake lol
Click to expand...

That side of the house is settling in faster (its more shaded as well) so the color seems "bluer".


----------



## TampaBayFL

GPO Man said:


> I'm curious what the growth rate of your CitraBlue is. My ProVista hardly grows at all but it looks great. I applied Hydretain to mine yesterday as it seems a bit thirstier than my Floratam (likely because it's in the back yard baking in the sun all day.)


Ill find out soon.....Im sure mine is still in shock as its only been ~10 days. But, some individual pieces, which are less shocked, do seem to be growing relatively quickly. I debated mowing them but am waiting.

Im also watching the other houses in the neighborhood with Provista as well for growth rate. They are all too new to judge just yet. Most are shocked hard core. IMO, the batch of sod was waaaaay too dried out right off the pallets.


----------



## TampaBayFL

ionicatoms said:


> I'm hoping to see it in person next time I come down!


Come on down!


----------



## TampaBayFL

The Citra Blue is establishing nicely. Here it is 14 days after installation. I gave it it's first gentle mow at about 2.75 inches. The recommended height is 2 to 3 inches. I went on the high side initially but may try and see if I can maintain at 2 inches once it is established. I think it would look pretty cool at that height.


----------



## TampaBayFL

Here is a close up. This is definitely a different looking Saint Augustine. One can tell from a distance that something is "odd" about it.

As far as I can tell, every piece appears pretty much fully rooted after 14 days so I'm hoping that it will be pretty much established within a month.


----------



## GPO Man

That looks similar to the ProVista in my back yard. It looks very different next to Floratam. I still haven't mowed it since I installed it on March 1st.


----------



## TampaBayFL

GPO Man said:


> That looks similar to the ProVista in my back yard. It looks very different next to Floratam. I still haven't mowed it since I installed it on March 1st.


That is interesting. The supposed provista that has gone into my neighborhood (and a ton of it has gone in in the past month), looks a lot like Floratam. So, I'm starting to wonder if that's what they actually got........ I guess we will see over time once it gets settled in what it looks like.


----------



## TampaBayFL

Yikes, according to Sod solutions.......1.5" mowing height!?!?! I would love to try, but I don't think I'm going to be that gutsy.


----------



## GPO Man

Floratam on left, ProVista on right. That's my actual lawn where the two meet, not two merged photos.


----------



## ionicatoms

@GPO Man if you spray the Floratam with PGR, I expect it will look more like ProVista.


----------



## GPO Man

In terms of length or color also?


----------



## ionicatoms

GPO Man said:


> In terms of length or color also?


Both. Floratam will darken when it grows more slowly.

Here's an example of what PGR will do on St Aug-Palmetto:


----------



## TampaBayFL

ionicatoms said:


> GPO Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> In terms of length or color also?
> 
> 
> 
> Both. Floratam will darken when it grows more slowly.
> 
> Here's an example of what PGR will do on St Aug-Palmetto:
Click to expand...

Wow, that palmetto looks a lot better when it gets a little bit darker. I haven't seen a ton of Palmetto as only a few houses near me have it, but it does seem a little bit more limey green normally.


----------



## ionicatoms

TampaBayFL said:


> Wow, that palmetto looks a lot better when it gets a little bit darker. I haven't seen a ton of Palmetto as only a few houses near me have it, but it does seem a little bit more limey green normally.


Yeah, it seems you really have to fertilize Palmetto heavily (more than I'm comfortable with anyway) to bring out the dark greens… or use PGR.


----------



## TampaBayFL

Here is the Citra Blue 21 days after sodding and after mowing at about 2.25". It seems like it's establishing nicely.


----------



## TampaBayFL

This stuff really can be mowed low. If someone wants a Bermuda type look, this may be the St. Augustine cultivar that can get the closest.

This is about 35 days after sodding and mowed at a nominal 2.25" but with extra weight added to my lousy Ryobi battery electric mower. It really does cut better with about 10 lb added to it. I think these light mowers just float too much otherwise. In the closeups one can see the cut isnt half bad. I learned this from Allyn Hane in one if his battery power mower reviews where he noted he had to pull up on the mower handle to get a decent cut (as the front bobs too much otherwise).


----------



## TampaBayFL

As a test, last week I even mowed it with my Sunjoe reel! It actually looked pretty good (I used the indicated 50mm setting) . But, it's much harder to mow than with a rotary so I'm not going to bother with that approach going forward.


----------



## ionicatoms

Looking good!


----------



## TampaBayFL

ionicatoms said:


> Looking good!


I'm starting to believe the UF claim of as low as 1.5" for this stuff. Looking at mine at 2.25" there's a lot of room to go lower before scalping will start. I'm not planning to go there though, my lawn is not flat enough.


----------



## TampaBayFL

While mowing this morning I saw a few of those pesky white/gray moths flying around and when I looked very closely in one area I think there are some caterpillars interested in dining on Citra Blue.

I blasted the lawn with both Bifen and Imidicloprid😁


----------



## Redtwin

Yep, I see a couple of chew marks. You Bifen/Imidacloprid cocktail should fix it. Otherwise it's looking pretty good. That's a really nice cut you are getting. Are you still reel mowing?


----------



## TampaBayFL

Redtwin said:


> Yep, I see a couple of chew marks. You Bifen/Imidacloprid cocktail should fix it. Otherwise it's looking pretty good. That's a really nice cut you are getting. Are you still reel mowing?


Thanks for confirming. I've put down granular bifen (0.1%) at like 3lb/1k twice previously, it clearly wasn't getting the job done :-( So, I went liquid 7.9% this time at the 1 oz/1k rate (along with liquid imidicloprid 1.47% at 9 oz/1k) so hopefully this will take care of business. I'll probably follow up with another bifen in a few weeks.

As for the cut, I'm moderately happy with it. The cut in those photos is just with my cheap 40 V Ryobi rotary at a nominal 2.7". I did give the blade a manual sharpening this morning before mowing as well. It seems to do a decent enough job, but I don't think it's a match for a good gas powered Honda. I sooooooo want to buy an HRX, but just can't justify it for my small lawn. The battery powered mower is just so convenient in my case.


----------



## kb02gt

In regards to growth rates, at least with ProVista my understanding is they were able to alter/reduce the plant hormone gibberillin, which is found in seaweed. My personal experience so far is that the seaweed does help push growth at least in the cooler spring. Have yet to try it out in the hot summer months. It could however be coincidence as seaweed has many other benefits.


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## TampaBayFL

I gave mine a dose of sea kelp a week or so ago just for yucks. I'm not sure if it made any sort of difference or not, but it probably can't hurt&#129322;


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## Spammage

Gibberellic acid affects both cell elongation and cell division. This is what pgr suppresses. If you want to give your grass a big kick in growth, spread horse/rabbit alfalfa pellets on the yard. You will have to irrigate after and then run over it with a mulching mower, but your grass will definitely get a growth boost.


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## TampaBayFL

Spammage said:


> Gibberellic acid affects both cell elongation and cell division. This is what pgr suppresses. If you want to give your grass a big kick in growth, spread horse/rabbit alfalfa pellets on the yard. You will have to irrigate after and then run over it with a mulching mower, but your grass will definitely get a growth boost.


In your opinion does this work better than just throwing down high synthetic N?


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## kb02gt

TampaBayFL said:


> Spammage said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gibberellic acid affects both cell elongation and cell division. This is what pgr suppresses. If you want to give your grass a big kick in growth, spread horse/rabbit alfalfa pellets on the yard. You will have to irrigate after and then run over it with a mulching mower, but your grass will definitely get a growth boost.
> 
> 
> 
> In your opinion does this work better than just throwing down high synthetic N?
Click to expand...

A bit different actually. More stolon growth with seaweed, but more grass blade growth with N.


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## GPO Man

kb02gt said:


> In regards to growth rates, at least with ProVista my understanding is they were able to alter/reduce the plant hormone gibberillin, which is found in seaweed. My personal experience so far is that the seaweed does help push growth at least in the cooler spring. Have yet to try it out in the hot summer months. It could however be coincidence as seaweed has many other benefits.


I'm convinced it doesn't grow at all vertically 😂 I installed my ProVista March 1st in Florida/9B and I still haven't had to mow it. I have to mow my Floratam 2x per week at 4". They both get the same fertilizer applications. Otherwise, I think the PV looks great and I love the bluish tint.


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## TampaBayFL

ionicatoms said:


> GPO Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> In terms of length or color also?
> 
> 
> 
> Both. Floratam will darken when it grows more slowly.
> 
> Here's an example of what PGR will do on St Aug-Palmetto:
Click to expand...

What rate are you using on the Saint Augustine?


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## ionicatoms

TampaBayFL said:


> What rate are you using on the Saint Augustine?


I found 0.10 floz per k to be a little more aggressive than I really wanted. It's safe, but would not exceed! You need a syringe to measure this stuff out.


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## TampaBayFL

ionicatoms said:


> TampaBayFL said:
> 
> 
> 
> What rate are you using on the Saint Augustine?
> 
> 
> 
> I found 0.10 floz per k to be a little more aggressive than I really wanted. It's safe, but would not exceed! You need a syringe to measure this stuff out.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice.....I may try some PGR later this summer and see how Citra Blue reacts. Ill start looooooow😁

Just to be 100% sure, I assume the 0.1 fl oz/1k was with the usual Primo (or similar) 11.3% trinexapac-ethyl concentration?


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## ionicatoms

Yes. I bought the small bottle of Pramaxis.


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## Darth_V8r

This might be relevant to the discussion here. I had, as mentioned earlier in this thread, plugged citrablue into some areas that are struggling with fungus in my Palmetto as a test. It isn't always easy to immediately see the difference in areas where the two grasses are blended, but is still majority palmetto.

I realized if I go out and inspect after watering 1" of water, it's a lot like the morning dew effect on grass varieties. I found the CB is taking over, although it is still quite a bit slower than I expected. Right now, I think it spreads faster than zoysia, but slower than centipede.

Either way, I can confirm it will outcompete palmetto - especially in areas of the yard that already have previously experienced large patch. I'm looking forward to CB taking over those areas completely. It does do well in the shade, but palmetto still seems a bit better in the shade overall, except for the sensitivity to diseases.


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## ionicatoms

One of my three test spots is in deep shade; the CitraBlue appears to have been completely overtaken by Palmetto. At this point, I really can't recommend using plugs for a CB renovation.


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## TampaBayFL

Ive been DRENCHING my Citra Blue to really get it to establish and have found the limit . This has happened in only a few small areas and one would need to look for it, but it's there.

We been getting morning lows in the high 70s-low 80s and coupled with the high humidity and my overwatering, Ive overpowered my fungicide regimen🤪. I stopped watering.....but now weve gotten 2+" of rain a day.😋


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## TampaBayFL

I've been playing around with mowing heights on the Citra Blue and also switching between a rotary and a manual reel. The manual reel definitely looks better. I've mowed it as low as 2" with the reel and it seems to take it just fine. I'm kind of digging it at the lower height.


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## Jeri

We have cleared our backyard in prep for Citrablue sod and are wondering if the shallow well sulfur water will kill Citrablue? My understanding is the Citrablue is a form of St Augustine and all the rules that apply to Floratam/St Augustine are the same for it. Has anyone experienced how it does with Sulfer watering? We are on the barrier islands near cocoa beach. Also, the local nursery said St Augustine is ok to be put down directly on sand and doesn't require top soil. any thoughts? thank you <3


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## franktiberi

My front yard is heavily shaded--it only gets 3-3.5 hours of direct sunlight a day. The Tiftuf that the builder installed did terribly. I had CitraBlue installed in the middle of July and maintained it at 2.5" with my Great States reel mower, cutting 3 times a week.

The CitraBlue has performed well at that height, but the areas in heavier shade closer to my house have started thinning. I stopped mowing about 2 weeks ago and picked up a Fiskars reel mower so I could cut at 4". I didn't think I would like it this high, but I'm loving it. It looks so much fuller than it did at 2.5".


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## ionicatoms

Looks great!


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## franktiberi

ionicatoms said:


> Looks great!


Thank you! I'm excited to start using PGR next season and see how it improves the CitraBlue's performance in shade.


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## Redtwin

That looks awesome @franktiberi! @TampaBayFL How is your CitraBlue holding up? What HOC are you currently at?


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## franktiberi

Thank you @Redtwin!

Anyone using PGR on their CitraBlue? If so, what are you using and at what rate did you start noticing an effect?

I've got a 10 sq. ft. test plot I established from plugs last year. On 8/25 I put 0.15 fl. oz./gal. Pramaxis (label rate for SA) on the bottom half of my test plot and didn't notice any effect. On 9/8 I bumped it up to 0.20 fl. oz./gal. I'm just now noticing the growth on end of the stolons is thicker and there some seems to be some vertical growth suppression compared to the top half of the plot. I'm not noticing any difference in color though; that could be due to regular applications of iron.


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## bbbdkc79

@Jeri I'm just south of you in Melbourne (Suntree area). I just recently had the whole yard re-sodded with it, and I am very happy with the results. I will need to do a scalp early next year, since the sod that was put down was on the older side and had already had a significant amount of thatch. Send me a PM and I'll give you my address.


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## franktiberi

Here are some comparison pics of CitraBlue stolons under PGR regulation that I took today at my test plot.

I've treated the bottom half of the test plot with Pramaxis (T-Nex 11.3%) twice as follows:

 8/25/22: 0.15 fl. oz./gal. (label rate)
 9/8/22: 0.20 fl. oz./gal

This test plot is in very heavy shade; it only gets about 1 hour of direct sunlight per day. Always cool to see PGR in action.


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## FATC1TY

These are some of the best looking STA lawns. If I lived down in Florida and was forced into it with conditions this would be something I'd want installed.

How low is the lowest someone has maintained it with decent sunlight ?


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## franktiberi

FATC1TY said:


> These are some of the best looking STA lawns. If I lived down in Florida and was forced into it with conditions this would be something I'd want installed.
> 
> How low is the lowest someone has maintained it with decent sunlight ?


Although I'm not sure what type of St. Augustine he has, @813king maintains his St. Augustine at less than .5": https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39523

CitraBlue naturally grows laterally more than vertically in good sun, so I imagine one would have no problem maintaining CitraBlue at low heights like @813king does.


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## 813king

I maintain my Floritam St Augustine @ 0.386 height of cut all year just south of Tampa Florida.


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