# Lawn help for first time home buyer.



## MrLayhe (Aug 7, 2020)

Hi everyone,

I made a post prior but I unfortunately didn't have any pictures or enough information to provide to get the information I was looking for.

So basically, my lawn is in rough shape. It has lots of divots, unevenness, weeds and bare patches.

We aren't too concerned about weeds, or having a perfect lawn. We really just want it level and have some even grass (no bare spots). Girlfriend won't let me use weed killer btw.

I bought one of the soil tests from my local hardware store, and it shows that the ph is neutral, nitrogen very low, phosphorus medium, and potash high.

I would like to try and tackle this in the spring, although I know fall will yield better results.

I've attached some pictures, and hopefully someone can't point me in the right direction. The big sand spot is from a pool that the previous owners had. Also, I should mention I'm fairly close to a lake; and the town only uses sand in the inter here not salt. I feel like there may be a lot of sand in the soil around here lol.

Thanks!!


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

if leveling is your main concern, and you arent able to/interested in a weed free yard, I would cut the yard as low as you can and order several yards of top soil and spread that with a drag or something similar. Id also rake up any debris and bare spots to hopefully get better results when overseeding.


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## SOLARSUPLEX (Aug 4, 2020)

I'd rent or borrow some kind of gas/electric tilling machine and just tear up the entire back yard. Do your best to rake away anything organic that is easy to get rid of and then level things out since the soil will be a bit softer. depending on the condition of what you're left with you can drops seed and peatmoss and hope for germination. Whatever weeds were/are present wont have died and will likely continue to plague. After tilling you could bring in sod which might have a slightly higher chance of turning into a 'grass' backyard.

You're at a major disadvantage for pretty much everything by banning any 'weed killer' in the project.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Since when does the girlfriend call the shots on lawn care. Man up and kill those weeds &#128514;


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## MrLayhe (Aug 7, 2020)

Thanks everyone. Would it make sense to aerate, seed and fertilize? Or by the pictures, does it look like that won't help? I really don't want to spend the money for sod. Would it be wiser for me to rent a sod cutter and re seed?


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## MrLayhe (Aug 7, 2020)

M32075 said:


> Since when does the girlfriend call the shots on lawn care. Man up and kill those weeds 😂


Haha I ordered par 3, and she is afraid of the puppy getting sick so it's just sitting in the garage lol


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## SOLARSUPLEX (Aug 4, 2020)

OH well with animals around that are openly exposed i completely agree with her decision to not use chemicals. My advice with that included would be to get a small snow fence with stakes for $15 and set up an area from the door that the dog will get to use while you are working back there. Leave a good foot of space between anything you spray and the fence and the dogs area will be fine.

Aerate, seed, and fertilize will likley result in some germination, but you'll also be feeding the weeds and whatever else you have growing back there that will likely outgrow your new grass much quicker.

Nuke the entire place and start from scratch. you can spray gly over a weekend and take the dog out in the front.


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## MrLayhe (Aug 7, 2020)

SOLARSUPLEX said:


> OH well with animals around that are openly exposed i completely agree with her decision to not use chemicals. My advice with that included would be to get a small snow fence with stakes for $15 and set up an area from the door that the dog will get to use while you are working back there. Leave a good foot of space between anything you spray and the fence and the dogs area will be fine.
> 
> Aerate, seed, and fertilize will likley result in some germination, but you'll also be feeding the weeds and whatever else you have growing back there that will likely outgrow your new grass much quicker.
> 
> Nuke the entire place and start from scratch. you can spray gly over a weekend and take the dog out in the front.


When you say nuke it, do you mean with the par 3 or completely kill the grass and weeds?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

There is not much grass in this lawn. The front is very bare. Round up is safe to re-entry after 12 hrs. Do the front one day and the back the next for the dog. This will kill all you have there and allow a clean new canvas.

I would then rake to get the soil loose and spread grass seeds. Something with ryegrass will grow fast mixed it with a creeping red fescue. Water to keep it moist at all times.

Sod will be faster (still do the round up), but more expensive.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Don't aerate unless your soil is compacted. I would also stay away from tilling the yard unless you're going to kill everything and then fallow to see if any weeds pop up after tilling.

I agree that you're hands are somewhat tied if you do not use any chemical options for weed control.

G-man has the best advice, especially if you're not looking to get too crazy with this hobby. I know it's difficult when your significant other is opposed to chemicals. Most of us have kids and/or dogs and we find a way to make it work. Most chemicals are safe to re-enter the lawn within 24 hours; some are safer sooner.


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## northwoods-lawn (Sep 9, 2020)

Pretty much what g-man said.... Round-up the front and back on separate days. Wait a few days for the die-off to take effect, then get a lawn rake which will make it easier to level the high spots. You can also get a few bags of masons sand from a big box store and spread it out over some of the areas that need extra leveling, unless you want to haul-in a few tons of sand to do a complete level start.
Then put down a heavy amount of ryegrass with some creeping fescue mixed-in. If you have the means, cover it with some peat moss and water at least two to three times a day for the first couple of weeks to get it started. Just keep the new seed moist during germination so it will have a good start and have good roots. Top growth will follow.


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## SOLARSUPLEX (Aug 4, 2020)

MrLayhe said:


> SOLARSUPLEX said:
> 
> 
> > OH well with animals around that are openly exposed i completely agree with her decision to not use chemicals. My advice with that included would be to get a small snow fence with stakes for $15 and set up an area from the door that the dog will get to use while you are working back there. Leave a good foot of space between anything you spray and the fence and the dogs area will be fine.
> ...


Glyphosate is the 'nuke' option.


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## MrLayhe (Aug 7, 2020)

Hey everyone, thanks for the replies.

So my only issue is that after doing research, it appears that glysophate is banned in my province (Ontario).

I know they do sell some form of it, but i believe it may be very diluted.


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## BBLOCK (Jun 8, 2020)

MrLayhe said:


> Hey everyone, thanks for the replies.
> 
> So my only issue is that after doing research, it appears that glysophate is banned in my province (Ontario).
> 
> I know they do sell some form of it, but i believe it may be very diluted.


Yeah... We're all having to deal w it.

A few options if you want to pursue.

Goto Quebec...

Know a farmer...

Order some.

Check out our local forum for Ontario under Canada and you can find all the options

Here's a good one 
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3638


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## MrLayhe (Aug 7, 2020)

northwoods-lawn said:


> Pretty much what g-man said.... Round-up the front and back on separate days. Wait a few days for the die-off to take effect, then get a lawn rake which will make it easier to level the high spots. You can also get a few bags of masons sand from a big box store and spread it out over some of the areas that need extra leveling, unless you want to haul-in a few tons of sand to do a complete level start.
> Then put down a heavy amount of ryegrass with some creeping fescue mixed-in. If you have the means, cover it with some peat moss and water at least two to three times a day for the first couple of weeks to get it started. Just keep the new seed moist during germination so it will have a good start and have good roots. Top growth will follow.


So, after trying to convince the girlfriend for the use
Of chemicals, it's still a no go. Lol.

I was thinking for the front lawn as alternative, what if I rent a sod cutter. Remove a layer, and then reseed? What's your thoughts?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Since changing girlfriends is out of the question, a sod cutter to remove 2in could work, but then you need to bring 2 in of soil. The new soil can have weeds so you are back to chemicals. If you bring soil and then lay sod, then that could work. But your cost are then very very high.


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## MrLayhe (Aug 7, 2020)

g-man said:


> Since changing girlfriends is out of the question, a sod cutter to remove 2in could work, but then you need to bring 2 in of soil. The new soil can have weeds so you are back to chemicals. If you bring soil and then lay sod, then that could work. But your cost are then very very high.


Haha definitely out of the question. We're not all that worried about the appearance of weeds right now. We just want some green to develop in the front, since it's visibly struggling to grow. Is there a cheaper alternative to laying sod, and the use of chemicals?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

What about just throwing seeds? The weeds will still be there, but at least there will be some grass.


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## MrLayhe (Aug 7, 2020)

g-man said:


> What about just throwing seeds? The weeds will still be there, but at least there will be some grass.


Yeah? I can definitely try that. My soil test said I was low in nitrogen, although it was a cheap diy test from home hardware.

Is there a fertilizer and seed combo you recommend? Should I rent an aerator?


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Reputable soil tests do not test nitrogen levels. It's moves through the soil quicker than most other elements and so any reading you get is not going to be accurate. I also wouldn't trust a soil test purchased from a big box store. Most of us are sending soil samples to the US for analysis. But I don't think you're wanting to be at that level, so I wouldn't even worry about it.

You don't need to aerate unless your soil is compacted. Take a screw driver and stick it into the ground. Easy or hard? Easy - no aeration needed. Really difficult to get it to go in 2-3"? Aeration will help in this case. I doubt your soil will need it.

Honestly, if you want something easy and aren't getting into lawn care for the hobby, than any seed from the big box store will work. Any fertilizer will work for regular feedings. I wouldn't worry about fertilizer at the time of seeding.

The 3 best things you can do to have a nice lawn are:

1) Cut often - 1 to 2x per week
2) Water at least once a week - general rule is 1" per week all at once
3) Feed your lawn 3-4 times a year. For a beginner and someone just wanting a nice lawn, I would feed it in end of April, end of May, end of August and end of September

If all you did was those 3 things consistently, you will be very happy with the results. Especially if chemicals are out of the equation.


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## MrLayhe (Aug 7, 2020)

Harts said:


> Reputable soil tests do not test nitrogen levels. It's moves through the soil quicker than most other elements and so any reading you get is not going to be accurate. I also wouldn't trust a soil test purchased from a big box store. Most of us are sending soil samples to the US for analysis. But I don't think you're wanting to be at that level, so I wouldn't even worry about it.
> 
> You don't need to aerate unless your soil is compacted. Take a screw driver and stick it into the ground. Easy or hard? Easy - no aeration needed. Really difficult to get it to go in 2-3"? Aeration will help in this case. I doubt your soil will need it.
> 
> ...


I really appreciate this. I'm going to cut this weekend and seed. Do you suggest leaving the clippings? Or should I bag them?


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

All depends on how much you're cutting off. If the clipping are going to be small, leave them on the lawn. If you're cutting an inch or more off, I would bag them.


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## MrLayhe (Aug 7, 2020)

Harts said:


> All depends on how much you're cutting off. If the clipping are going to be small, leave them on the lawn. If you're cutting an inch or more off, I would bag them.


Awesome thanks. Last question haha. The previous owner had a garden bed along the perimeter of the fence. I've removed all the crappy plants she had, along with the roots. All that's left really is I'm assuming potting or garden soil?

Should I remove some of this to plant the grass, or will it germinate?


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

I am a firm believer in aerating and overseeding. I did this consistently for spring and fall for two years. Look at the results. Also, the key for me is going from synthetic to organic. Slow-release will feed your lawn over several months and create soil microbial activity.



Just getting started. My goal is to have carpet grass. I would not till the lawn unless your nuking. Dethatching is ok. Based on the pics you provided you have moss, clover, and bare spots in many areas of your lawn. Overtime once you treat this they will continue to go away. But the key for you is to remove the weeds and begin the process of getting seed into your lawn to strengthen your lawn.


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

Follow the instructions on when re entry is safe, and it's safe. Weed control is worth it.


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## MrLayhe (Aug 7, 2020)

Harts said:


> Reputable soil tests do not test nitrogen levels. It's moves through the soil quicker than most other elements and so any reading you get is not going to be accurate. I also wouldn't trust a soil test purchased from a big box store. Most of us are sending soil samples to the US for analysis. But I don't think you're wanting to be at that level, so I wouldn't even worry about it.
> 
> You don't need to aerate unless your soil is compacted. Take a screw driver and stick it into the ground. Easy or hard? Easy - no aeration needed. Really difficult to get it to go in 2-3"? Aeration will help in this case. I doubt your soil will need it.
> 
> ...


It's been two weeks, and I'm starting to see grass starting to grow! It's very fine, and maybe half and inch high. I've been watering three times a day on average, but still haven't used a fertilizer. Should I use something, or just keep doing what time
Doing?


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

If you didn't do a starter fert, a modest amount would help. If you did, leave it.


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## DiabeticKripple (Apr 14, 2019)

If you aren't concerned about weeds, here is what I would do.

Dethatch first, get all the crap off the surface of the soil.

Aerate to help oxygen and nutrients get to the roots, also loosens up the soil.

Bring in any soil you need to level the yard, a mixture of topsoil and sand would be good for this.

Overseed with perennial ryegrass and Kentucky blue grass, you should be able to find a mix at a local garden store where they sell their own seed mixtures.

Once you seed, spread some starter fertilizer down and make sure you water a few mins multiple times a day to keep the seeds moist.

Stay off the lawn for 2 weeks to let the seedlings grow.

With good cultural practices (watering, mowing, fertilizing) you should end up with a nice lawn that is mostly weed free by the fall, next year will be even better.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

@MrLayhe I would wait until you've cut the grass once before using fertilizer. Here is my advice:

Cut when the first of the new grass reach 2". Cut it back to 1.5". You will only cut maybe 15% new grass but that's okay. Keep cutting it frequently at 1.5", 3-5 times and then you can adjust to your normal HOC.

Make sure to back of the irrigation the day before you cut to allow the ground to dry.

Don't worry about the grass being so young. It will bounce back.

After the first cut, you can throw down 0.5lb N per 1,000.


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