# Jumping Into the... Shallow... End (Chappy's Log)



## ChappyEight (May 9, 2018)

Taking a quick break from my YouTube education on lawn care to make this post.

@g-man made the (great) suggestion that I list my goals and what I'm hoping to accomplish so I can get more tailored feedback. So, this post will serve the dual purpose of providing exactly that, in addition to becoming a running log of my lawn for the year. You can find my original post here.

*QUICK STATS:*

*Lot size:* 10,800 SF
*Actual grass:* 7,120 SF
*Front yard & sides:* 3,350 SF
*Back yard:* 3,770 SF

*GOALS:*

Learn the "why" in addition to the "how" of creating a great lawn.
Eventually have a lawn that is thick, healthy, and enjoyable to work on.
While I'd love to go full turf engineer, with two young kids, a full time job, and having to take some professional licensing exams, that may or may not be possible. So, I don't expect Wrigley Field level turf when there is simply no way I can put that much time into it. However, I don't want to skimp out and do the bare minimum either. In other words, I'm probably not going to be doing a reno any time soon, rather I'm hoping to improve it over time.
To my shame, a small inkling of me wants to make my new neighbors jealous. They both take decent care of their yards, from what I can tell so far; looks as though one neighbor pays TruGreen to come out every so often and the neighbor on the other side simply keeps it mowed tidy (don't think they fertilize because there are some definite weeds embedded in there).
I'd like to eventually pass this knowledge down to my boy (he's 9). My Dad is a big yard nut but without the internet, he just figured out his own system which is pretty much a Spring and Fall application of Scott's TurfBuilder. His yard has always looked nicer than anyone else's around him, but it's less than where I think I'd like to be.
LEARN. It's tough to make these goals now simply because I'm so naïve in all this. It will be interesting to see if/how they change as time moves on.

Now comes the part of the post where I show my utter naivety in all things proper lawn care…

*PROVISIONAL STEPS*
Being _completely_ naïve about all this, I figured I'd at least make a "to-do" list of what I've gathered so far in the week or so since I began this journey. I realize this list is likely ALL wrong, but I'm hoping you all can help me refine and revise it to an actionable plan. I'm trying to model this after "Tier 2" in this post but I'm not exactly sure where to jump on the train, so-to-speak.


Take pictures and document the lawn. Post to TLF for identification of grasses, advice, and suggestions.
Raise mower up to 3 ½". (When should I switch to 2 ½"?)
Get blades sharpened.
Start a treatment log. (Any apps for this? I'm a tech geek and always look for apps.)
Get a late spring treatment of some kind down. (PreM? Too late in the season for this? Should I go with a nitrogen treatment instead?)
Is it too late in the season to apply GrubEx?
Purchase a sprinkler? (This one has me a bit concerned simply because water in my area isn't cheap. So, I'm curious how much I'll spend by running the sprinkler.)
Soil testing. (Any recommendations near Indy?)
Mow/edge/trim regularly through the summer.
Overseed in August? Should I even do this yet?
In the fall (September) perform the Fall Nitrogen Blitz. Also, spray for winter annuals weeds.
Should I aerate?

Again, those steps above I realize may be totally wrong or way out of whack. Just wanted to get something on paper for you guys to dissect.

Thanks again, really appreciate all the advice!

- Chappy


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Soil testing -
The lab used for the test is important. In general you want a test that provides clear results with a guide on what to apply for the year. Doing yearly reports with the same lab, using the same test methods and the same sampling method will provide you with a trend of your soil. Soil Testing Services thread guides you in finding a local lab that knows your state typical soil/test methods.  Waypoint Analytical has an easy to read results for a low price of $16.50(2018). For *indy* I would request the SW1 test ($26.50 since we have high pH soils) at the TN site. Ship via USPS small box.

More indepth knowledge : TheGrassFactor has a nice video for it. All about soils

Treatment log
Write down what you applied to the lawn and when. It helps understand mistakes and keep track of nitrogen levels. I use an online excel file (google sheets) that I could access from the phone. Here is an example of it:  Log + Tenacity + Prodiamine Calculator 

GrubEx - Not to late, do it as soon as possible.

PreM - Go to menards/home depot/lowes and buy a crabgrass preventer (any brand) that has the active ingredient *Dithiopyr*. You are a bit late, but it is still worth it. The dithiopyr has some post emergent (kills stuff already growing) action to it, so it will be helpful. Apply it as soon as possible per the bag recommendations and water the lawn after it.

Indy local sources of lawn stuff:
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1654&p=41365&hilit=local+sources#p30577


----------



## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

Welcome Chappy!!


----------



## ChappyEight (May 9, 2018)

Thanks @jessehurlburt! And, as always, really appreciate you taking the time, @g-man.

I'll pick up some PreM and GrubEx and get it put down ASAP. Also, tonight I'll take some pics of my lawn and some problem areas that my untrained eye has noticed and get them posted up on this thread.

In the meantime, as I work today I'll throw on the soil testing vids to figure out exactly how to do that.

Thanks again.


----------



## ChappyEight (May 9, 2018)

Okay, going to pick up the following tonight:


GrubEx (28.7 lb. bag)
Scotts Crabgrass Preventer (2-10 lb. bags)

And here's an elementary question, when you say to water the lawn immediately after, it brings a couple quick questions to mind:


For my 7,200 SF yard, I'm assuming the one 28.7 lb. bag of GrubEx and 2 bags of Crabgrass Preventer is sufficient?
Do I just water with the hose or do I need to purchase a couple sprinklers? If sprinklers, any suggestions?
Does it matter what time of day I apply both the GrubEx and the PreM?
Can I apply each product at the same time and then water?
Do I need to put up warning flags after I do a treatment of any of this stuff? We have neighborhood kids who like to run through the yard to come visit my kids.

Thanks again,
Chappy


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Short answers because I have to pick up the kids.

Scott is not Dithiopyr.

1. The bags will say 5k or 10k. Follow the bag instructions.
2. You could use rain. A flat oscillating sprinkler will work. Most product want 0.5in of water. Use an empty tuna can to measure the inches of water applied.
3. no
4. Yes
5. Do the kids read flags and follow the instructions on the flags? Apply late in the evening and let them know not to walk that night.


----------



## ChappyEight (May 9, 2018)

Thanks @g-man for taking the time. Going to grab a sprinkler, the Dithiopyr, and the GrubEx from Lowe's tomorrow and apply tomorrow night. Just got in from taking pics of the lawn. Will post up here in a bit after the little ones go to bed.


----------



## ChappyEight (May 9, 2018)

Was able to get out and snap some pictures of the yard today...
-------------------------------------

*Satellite View:*









*Back Yard:*









*Random shots of the turf from different places in the yard:*






















































*Large, exposed roots in back (Not sure how to deal with these):*









*Bare patches in the back where the previous owner had a swing set:*


















*Tree out front (not sure what type):*


















Observations and suggestions encouraged!


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It looks like a northern mix. There are some weeds, but nothing significant. It needs to be mowed with a sharp blade and it looks like it could use some nitrogen. The PreM will provide it.

I noticed the lab with flags of what looks like invisible fence. That could be a problem in the future. Dog pee is high in salts and urea. Urea is nitrogen and in his concentrations it will kill the lawn. You will notice dead spots with very green tall grass around it from the pee. There are pills that force the dog to drink more water (dilutes the pee). I also have a lab and I trained him to pee in a mulch area only. It takes 2 weeks and it solves that problem.

There is nothing you could do about the roots. If you cover them, it will likely kill the tree. Is it a maple? Must maples are shallow root and suck the water from the grass.


----------



## ChappyEight (May 9, 2018)

g-man said:


> It looks like a northern mix. There are some weeds, but nothing significant. It needs to be mowed with a sharp blade and it looks like it could use some nitrogen. The PreM will provide it.


Awesome. It's interesting you mention needing a sharp blade because I was just watching one of the LCN videos last night and he was saying the exact same thing about the blades being frayed and that meaning a sharpened blade is needed.



g-man said:


> I noticed the lab with flags of what looks like invisible fence. That could be a problem in the future. Dog pee is high in salts and urea. Urea is nitrogen and in his concentrations it will kill the lawn. You will notice dead spots with very green tall grass around it from the pee. There are pills that force the dog to drink more water (dilutes the pee). I also have a lab and I trained him to pee in a mulch area only. It takes 2 weeks and it solves that problem.


Great observation. I like your idea of moving them to a mulch bed. I'll work on that the next couple weeks. As you probably know, they're pretty smart so it shouldn't be too much of an issue.



g-man said:


> There is nothing you could do about the roots. If you cover them, it will likely kill the tree. Is it a maple? Must maples are shallow root and suck the water from the grass.


That stinks. I'm not sure on the type as I've not looked at it that closely yet. I'll have a look tonight.

----------------
As usual, sincerest thanks again for your insights. Looking forward to getting the GrubEx and the Dithiopyr applied this evening. Which reminds me, one question on the Dithiopyr, does it matter if it's granules or liquid (or is it even offered in both)?


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You won't find it in liquid at any big box stores. Granular would be easier. I know Menards sells it, but they don't sell grubex. Home Depot, I'm not sure. I don't think Lowe's does. Lowe's doesn't have a large variety and it is more expensive. Walmart and Meijer might have it.


----------



## ChappyEight (May 9, 2018)

Good to know. Lowe's and Walmart are closest to me but, since I work downtown, I have easy access to any of those places. Maybe I'll swing by Menard's on the way home and grab the Dithiopyr then get the Lowe's near home.

Again, appreciate the insights.

On a side note, had a chat with one of my neighbors last night who pays ~$500 for TruGreen to take care of his lawn. He said he used to do it but that it never looked any good. From what I can tell, the only thing TruGreen is really doing is helping him to avoid dandelions because, other than that, he's got quite a few weeds.


----------



## ChappyEight (May 9, 2018)

Ah, looks like I found what you were talking about from Menard's: MENARDS® PREMIUM Crabgrass Preventer Lawn Fertilizer - 5000 sq. ft. (Northern Climate)

Between this, the GrubEx, and the impact sprinkler I bought, methinks I should be good to go to apply this weekend. Thanks for the crash-course to get me going.

Once I get this stuff down and start mowing with a sharp blade, I'm assuming I can look forward to spending the summer learning and making a gameplan for the fall?

Should I do anything with the bare spots or just wait until the fall and seed them?


----------



## ChappyEight (May 9, 2018)

Okay, just a quick update...

This past Friday I put down some GrubEx, Dithiopyr, and Milorganite. I also went through and spot-sprayed some weeds. Put down 1/2" water on it that evening and then overnight we got roughly 3/4" rain on top of that.

Interested to see where it goes from here. The lawn is definitely thin in some spots. Also, a lot of my grass appears to have feathing/seed stuff on top. Is that the fescue? I'm assuming it's not a weed? Here's a pic (I can try to get more of a close-up of the blades I'm talking about if you need me to)...



Thanks again for all the help getting going!

- Chappy


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

There is a mix of grass in there. The seedheads are normal for this time of the year. Just keep mowing them off with a sharp blade.


----------



## ChappyEight (May 9, 2018)

Gotcha, thanks.


----------



## ChappyEight (May 9, 2018)

Bad news, the tree I posted pics of is an Ash with bad signs of Borer damage. Going to have to be removed. Now to figure out what to put in its place...


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Please no maple or pear.


----------



## ChappyEight (May 9, 2018)

Definitely not. I've got an arborist coming near the end of the week. I just want something slightly unique but that won't get gigantic and won't have such a dense canopy that my grass dies.

On a side note, I'm praying this is just KBG or Fescue seeding and not Poa...


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It is a Northern mix. Just keeping mowing it. It looks long.


----------



## ChappyEight (May 9, 2018)

You were right, it was pretty long. I stopped freaking out and started listening to you. Been irrigating and mowing and my lawn is the only lawn on the block still green. I definitely have some brown creeping in, but I'm too much of a novice to know if this is heat stress or something more serious like brown spot (and the blade I'm holding was cut a month or so ago with my old mower, hence the raggedness):







I'm also trying to develop a gameplan of how to repair the lawn in my parking strip:





Should i just get some topsoil this fall, fill it in and seed it?

Really enjoying the start of this journey so far. Oh, and this HRX217 is awesome...


----------



## ChappyEight (May 9, 2018)

Had my soil tested and got the results back today. Any help with what I'm looking at would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

This doesnt look like the SW1 or the SM3 standard test from waypoint.

pH is high, so I recommend using Ammonium Sulfate (AS) as the main source of synthetic nitrogen. Iron will not be available thru the soil, so FAS or Milo would be my choices.

CEC is 20, so the soil will hold on to nutrients pretty good.

The lawn needs potassium (K). they are recommending 4lb/ksqft for the year. Dont apply more than 1lb/ksqft per month. SOP (0-0-50) is the ideal choice. You will find it at Advance Turf Solutions in Fishers. MOP will be another option.

I like to target 50ppm for phosphorous. Your level are sufficient, but it is up to you if you want to get go from 22 to 50. If so, there are multiple options. Milo is one. A starter fertilizer is another one. Triple super phosphate (0-45-0) is another one.


----------



## ChappyEight (May 9, 2018)

Thanks @g-man. I asked for the SW1 so I'm not sure why that's not what I got. I'm going to send a sample from my back yard in this week and I'll make sure they get it correct with SW1 this time.

So, if I'm reading this correctly, my soil isn't quite as awful as I thought?


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

This seems like an S1M. How much they charged you?


----------



## ChappyEight (May 9, 2018)

$10


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

For the record: The Waypoint SW1 or the SM3 are "should do" tests for at least the first test and maybe even the second year test IMO. If the non-major cations and P levels are sufficient, then you can use the S1M to just monitor the major cations, pH and P for the next couple of years and save some $.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Thanks for the info. I'm trying to keep track of their prices since they don't post them. So far

S1M - $10 - major cations
S3M - $16.50 - complete 
SW1- $26.50 - better for high ph


----------

