# Help me decide - Honda vs. Toro



## CPA Nerd

Hi all. I am in the market for a new mower. I am trying to decide between a Honda HRR216VKA ($399) or Toro Recycler 20332 ($359).

Important to me:

-Great mulcher - I have a demanding job and a wife and 1 year-old at home, so sometimes I may break the 1/3 rule and only mow once a week. I'd like to be able to mulch without clumping. I realize that any mower will clump if grass is wet, underside is filthy, grass is too long, or a combination of the above. Just trying to get the best mulching mower that I can.

-Good suction and ability to pick up leaves - I have a handful of large trees that drop a lot of leaves in a short window in the fall.

-I currently have Husqvarna self propelled and I really enjoy being able to control the pace. If I want to slow down over thicker grass or a big pile of leaves, I simply ease up on the self propel trigger and it goes slower. I think that's a +1 for Toro Personal Pace.

-Easy to maintain - I want something that's easy to tune up and find parts for.


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## theconcretevegan

I need some help in this as well as I am looking for the same features but just can spend the money for the hxr217. I hear great things about Toro and Honda, but if anyone is will to share, that would be great.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

I have the honda. I like it. Works well. Cuts at 4" if you want. The drive is weak so if you are on a hill, you will also need to give the mower a push. I used a craftsman mower and the drive on that is so violent, it almost rips out some grass as it starts. You can hold the mower in place and it'll dig into the dirt and make ruts. I wish the honda was like that but alas... Maybe the plastic version, higher end one, is. Not sure. I haven't used any toro mowers so I can't compare. Sorry. I choose the honda hoping it is like their cars and just lasts forever. I am having the wheels get stiff when I back up so it looks like I need to sand the drive rods smooth. Common problem on the cheaper honda. FYI.


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## CPA Nerd

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> I have the honda. I like it. Works well. Cuts at 4" if you want. The drive is weak so if you are on a hill, you will also need to give the mower a push. I used a craftsman mower and the drive on that is so violent, it almost rips out some grass as it starts. You can hold the mower in place and it'll dig into the dirt and make ruts. I wish the honda was like that but alas... Maybe the plastic version, higher end one, is. Not sure. I haven't used any toro mowers so I can't compare. Sorry. I choose the honda hoping it is like their cars and just lasts forever. I am having the wheels get stiff when I back up so it looks like I need to sand the drive rods smooth. Common problem on the cheaper honda. FYI.


Thanks for sharing. Spinning machete, haha. :lol:


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## silvercymbal

CPA Nerd said:


> Hi all. I am in the market for a new mower. I am trying to decide between a Honda HRR216VKA ($399) or Toro Recycler 20332 ($359).
> 
> Important to me:
> 
> -Great mulcher - I have a demanding job and a wife and 1 year-old at home, so sometimes I may break the 1/3 rule and only mow once a week. I'd like to be able to mulch without clumping. I realize that any mower will clump if grass is wet, underside is filthy, grass is too long, or a combination of the above. Just trying to get the best mulching mower that I can.
> 
> -Good suction and ability to pick up leaves - I have a handful of large trees that drop a lot of leaves in a short window in the fall.
> 
> -I currently have Husqvarna self propelled and I really enjoy being able to control the pace. If I want to slow down over thicker grass or a big pile of leaves, I simply ease up on the self propel trigger and it goes slower. I think that's a +1 for Toro Personal Pace.
> 
> -Easy to maintain - I want something that's easy to tune up and find parts for.


The Honda's are really amazing. I used the 217 for a smaller area and mulching or bagging is very well done. They have had some drive issues which is disappointing but their quality of build and engines are #1 in my opinion. Even used they fetch incredible prices when selling too.


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## dfw_pilot

You won't go wrong with either. Which one has a dealer closer to you?


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## Miggity

I bought an HRX217 10 years ago. I change the oil every year, replace the air filter every other year and it has not been back to the shop since I bought it. Cuts and mulches well, Honda engines can't be beat in this size range. No Toro experience to share, sorry.


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## g-man

If garage space is a concern, the Toro stow away is a really nice feature.


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## Green

Toros have side discharge. Hondas don't. That might be a big deal. Also, the two blade scissor setup versus standard single blade is a huge difference (not saying one is better). Finally, you can get a Toro with a Honda engine, but most are Briggs. Also, the cutting heights are a bit different.

Also, I believe with Toro Personal Pace, there is no way to push manually without the drive assist unless you velcro the engine bail down to the personal pace handle, and then push with the metal fixed handle behind it. Someone can correct me if wrong.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Honda has rear discharge. I use it all the time and prefer it to the mulching mode. The vacuum power is really strong when discharging and it stands up the grass nicely. Also, you don't blow clippings into your flower beds. You do get your shoes and bottoms of your pants covered in grass though...


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## CPA Nerd

Maybe I don't need a new mower after all. Maybe just a new blade. I have had my mower six years and have never replaced the blade. I sharpen it but it's got some nicks in it.

Considering that sometimes I bag and sometimes I mulch, what blade do you guys recommend? Would a Gator G3 like the one below be sufficient for bagging and mulching? Or would it not generate sufficient suction for bagging?

https://www.oregonpartsonline.com/oregon-part-95-615/


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## Green

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Honda has rear discharge. I use it all the time and prefer it to the mulching mode. The vacuum power is really strong when discharging and it stands up the grass nicely. Also, you don't blow clippings into your flower beds. You do get your shoes and bottoms of your pants covered in grass though...


How does the rear do as far as allergies or airway irritation? So, it does get on your shoes...


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## ABC123

You could always make sure it's running at the correct rpm also.


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## William

Toro with a honda engine.


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## kaptain_zero

I think you will find the Honda is a slightly better mulcher than the Toro Recycler.

If cleaning up leaves in the fall is an issue, I'd prefer the side discharge of the Toro. The side discharge lets me corral the leaves to the middle of my yard and when I have a deeper pile in the middle, I switch to mulch to chop them up and then to bagging and go over the entire lawn. That trick saves me a ton of bags (2 instead of 12). But if that's not an issue for you, I think the Honda might have the edge in mulching.

I ended up with the Toro Super Recycler and the only time I saw *anything* left on the lawn when mulching was one time when it was quite wet and I had a few clumps show up. When the lawn is dry, I never see anything, but...... it's the Super Recycler and not the regular Recycler. The Honda is probably in the same league as the Super Recycler as far as mulching goes.

The Toro Personal Pace system is really nice too..... Tough choice!


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Green said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> Honda has rear discharge. I use it all the time and prefer it to the mulching mode. The vacuum power is really strong when discharging and it stands up the grass nicely. Also, you don't blow clippings into your flower beds. You do get your shoes and bottoms of your pants covered in grass though...
> 
> 
> 
> How does the rear do as far as allergies or airway irritation? So, it does get on your shoes...
Click to expand...

The rear discharge is pointing down so it blows it at the ground but it moves enough air that it continues along the ground and gets on your shoes. If you mulch or bag, your shoes will stay clean. It doesn't blow anything up so it doesn't affect me while walking behind it. If it is really dry, it can pick up dust but that applies to most mowers which have good suction.


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## CPA Nerd

I am leaning toward the Honda.

Does the self propel always go the same speed, or can I change speeds throughout the mow based on how hard I press the handles down?


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## ABC123

Honestly I would finance one that has power reverse. Looks like you can get a mail in rebate for $300 with a $500 purchase. Most are 0% for 18 months. https://www.toro.com/en/financing/lawn-and-garden-equipment


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## Suburban Jungle Life

CPA Nerd said:


> I am leaning toward the Honda.
> 
> Does the self propel always go the same speed, or can I change speeds throughout the mow based on how hard I press the handles down?


Speed is based on how hard you push the lever.


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## CPA Nerd

Hi all. I still have not purchased a new mower!

Here is a question that I haven't found a good answer to in searching old threads: how does the Toro Personal Pace work when you need to pull backwards? Say I'm mowing up to the house, flower bed or another object and need to do several back and forths. On my mower and on a Honda, you just disengage the self propel a couple feet before you need to reverse (just push it manually the last couple feet to allow the self propel mechanism to disengage so you can roll the wheels backward).

On the Personal Pace, you cannot disengage PP and still push the mower forward because the self propel mechanism is in the handle. So how do you get right up to an object, then reverse? Does the self propel disengage and the wheels roll backwards smoothly or does it lock up?

I am not interested in the Powereverse model. I don't like the idea of a mower coming at my feet.


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## ctrav

CPA Nerd said:


> Hi all. I still have not purchased a new mower!
> 
> Here is a question that I haven't found a good answer to in searching old threads: how does the Toro Personal Pace work when you need to pull backwards? Say I'm mowing up to the house, flower bed or another object and need to do several back and forths. On my mower and on a Honda, you just disengage the self propel a couple feet before you need to reverse (just push it manually the last couple feet to allow the self propel mechanism to disengage so you can roll the wheels backward).
> 
> On the Personal Pace, you cannot disengage PP and still push the mower forward because the self propel mechanism is in the handle. So how do you get right up to an object, then reverse? Does the self propel disengage and the wheels roll backwards smoothly or does it lock up?
> 
> I am not interested in the Powereverse model. I don't like the idea of a mower coming at my feet.


I just push down on the handle to raise the front end and back up. I also raise the front end when reversing my course. This keeps or helps to eliminate the "swirls" on my lawn since it needs leveling...


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## Green

@CPA Nerd, I ended with a Toro, non-Personal Pace finally. Honda engine. So best of both worlds.

I can easily disengage the self propel with the standard handle, even when going forward, unlike the Personal Pace handle. With either handle, the self propel stops soon after you disengage the handle. With the personal pace, you actually have to stop pushing to do that, and let the handle go back to its default position. As it does so, the mower may roll forward a couple more inches.

Note that turning and lifting up the front wheels is tougher with a large set of reset wheels. The balance is totally different than with small wheels.


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## kaptain_zero

Personal Pace handle is above the regular handle. If you want to push forward a tiny bit in a manual mode (I need to quite often on my small lot), I just drop my thumbs to the regular handle underneath the personal pace handle and twist my wrists to pull back and disengage the PP system, allowing me to do whatever I need to do. While my explanation may seem involved.... it really isn't and becomes second nature. Once I've pushed forward or pulled back what I need to do, I just put my thumbs back up on the PP handle and start walking.


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## CPA Nerd

Green said:


> @CPA Nerd, I ended with a Toro, non-Personal Pace finally. Honda engine. So best of both worlds.
> 
> I can easily disengage the self propel with the standard handle, even when going forward, unlike the Personal Pace handle. With either handle, the self propel stops soon after you disengage the handle. With the personal pace, you actually have to stop pushing to do that, and let the handle go back to its default position. As it does so, the mower may roll forward a couple more inches.
> 
> Note that turning and lifting up the front wheels is tougher with a large set of reset wheels. The balance is totally different than with small wheels.


Thanks for sharing your experience. Do you prefer this to the Personal Pace? Which model Toro has a Honda engine without Personal Pace?


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## CPA Nerd

kaptain_zero said:


> Personal Pace handle is above the regular handle. If you want to push forward a tiny bit in a manual mode (I need to quite often on my small lot), I just drop my thumbs to the regular handle underneath the personal pace handle and twist my wrists to pull back and disengage the PP system, allowing me to do whatever I need to do. While my explanation may seem involved.... it really isn't and becomes second nature. Once I've pushed forward or pulled back what I need to do, I just put my thumbs back up on the PP handle and start walking.


Thanks. So you have to essentially switch handles? With my current mower, I just release my finger from the self propel when I'm a couple feet away from where I'll need to back up. When you pull back on the PP, you do it with the regular handle, not the PP handle, correct? Doesn't that turn the mower off, though? I'm missing something. How do you keep the mower on, but disengage personal pace and use in "non-self propelled" mode?


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## quattljl

The Toro PP system has a fixed handle just like any other push mower. The personal pace handle/mechanism is attached to this fixed handle and slides forwards as you walk. The retractable start lever is attached to the personal pace mechanism so you hold it and the personal pace handle while it runs. Take a look at the 360* pictures of a personal pace mower on any site that sells them and it will all make sense. Pretty much the only time I need to even touch the fixed part of the handle is when starting it.

To reverse with the mower, you simply stop walking and pull the mower backwards. The PP handle is spring loaded so if you aren't actively pushing on it (like what happens when you're moving forward) the handle returns to the neutral position and the mower stops moving. There is no additional movement of the personal pace handle in the reverse direction as you pull it back.


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## kaptain_zero

The photo shows how you hold the personal pace handle. Imagine just dropping your thumbs down to the handle below and using them to push the mower forward for a few inches in tight spots without motor assist. You can pull the mower backwards with the personal pace handle. I find I prefer personal pace as it moves the mower as fast as I wish to walk.... no having to "keep up with it" like I have to with other styles. I also believe I saw a recent LCN video where his Honda mower would leave clippings behind instead of mulching them completely, but it was difficult situation and yet the Toro Super Recycler mulched it all with no trace left on the grass.

There is no one perfect mower for everyone.... but there is a perfect mower for you.


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## TNTurf

I have been using Honda mowers with hydrostatic transmissions for just over 20 years now. You set your top speed, pull the handle all the way and it goes the speed you set. When going around something you let off the handle a bit and it slows. The drive wheels are on the rear. I also get the one with the blade clutch. You start the engine but the blade does not start until you pull the handle. So, if you bag you can leave the mower running while you empty the bag which you cant do with a mower that spins the blade full time. I have no idea how long it would take to wear down the body of the mower, it is a poly of some kind that I think must last forever. The metal parts will go way before it does.

That said. The hydrostatic transmission is not serviceable and slows over time. The mower I have now is on full speed and just fast enough that I am not complaining yet. I will in a year or two. The auto choke on the engine, for me anyhow, has been a feature I can do without. My HRB216 didn't have that and we go along great. The part that is the issue can be swapped pretty easy but bummer you might have to do it.

I have no experience with the Toro Rotary but know they make a lot of great products. I would be willing to try one but probably never will since I have had Honda so long and will go Honda again when its time to replace this one.


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## CPA Nerd

kaptain_zero said:


> The photo shows how you hold the personal pace handle. Imagine just dropping your thumbs down to the handle below and using them to push the mower forward for a few inches in tight spots without motor assist. You can pull the mower backwards with the personal pace handle. I find I prefer personal pace as it moves the mower as fast as I wish to walk.... no having to "keep up with it" like I have to with other styles. I also believe I saw a recent LCN video where his Honda mower would leave clippings behind instead of mulching them completely, but it was difficult situation and yet the Toro Super Recycler mulched it all with no trace left on the grass.
> 
> There is no one perfect mower for everyone.... but there is a perfect mower for you.


Ah, I get it now. I am dumb. Thank you.

So basically, I'd mow right up to the flower bed, for example, stop, the PP handle disengages/comes back up, basically even with the static handle, and since the PP handle is back up (not engaged), my thumbs are right next to the static handle and I can push down/forward on it with my thumbs to push the mower forward while not engaging PP at all.

Such a tough decision. I like being able to just push a lever on the mower and go such as with a Honda, but I also like the idea of "just walking" with the PP and having more of a leisure mow. I have heard people's thumbs get sore with Honda Smart Drive, but I really wouldn't know until I mow with it.


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## ericgautier

The Toro 20332 was my first mower and loved it (my brother has it now and it still mows awesome). The Personal Pace system is easy to use. No knobs or levers to worry about. The only thing I wished I sprung for when I bought it was the blade stop model especially when/if you are bagging.


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## driver_7

Get the HRX model with the blade stop if you go Honda. I bought an HRR when I didn't know any better, but wanted a Honda. You won't regret the HRX.


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## CPA Nerd

717driver said:


> Get the HRX model with the blade stop if you go Honda. I bought an HRR when I didn't know any better, but wanted a Honda. You won't regret the HRX.


What's the benefit other than a bigger engine (likely not necessary?), blade stop (I don't need it because I rarely bag), and a nexite deck (isn't steel good enough).

Don't get me wrong, I know there's value in the HRX, but if my goal is to just get a great, clean cut, won't the HRR match the HRX?


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## MMoore

I went HRX after replacing an older mower that the deck rusted out on. I want it to last forever.

The hydrostatic drive is powerful.
blade stop is great, I use it when people are walking by and I want to be polite.... or when something needs to be moved like a kids toy, a lawn chair, pool stuff, etc.

The bigger engine with my somewhat thick lawn I would say is a requirement. lowering my HOC I can still maintain my normal cutting speed but you can hear it working. when I dropped to scalp it REALLY had to work even at a slower pace.


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## kaptain_zero

CPA Nerd said:


> Ah, I get it now. I am dumb. Thank you.


As an old boss once told me: "Ask a stupid question and you'l feel foolish for a few minutes. Don't ask a stupid question and you will remain an idiot for the rest of your life!"

Needless to say, I never worried about sounding dumb or asking stupid questions after that.



CPA Nerd said:


> So basically, I'd mow right up to the flower bed, for example, stop, the PP handle disengages/comes back up, basically even with the static handle, and since the PP handle is back up (not engaged), my thumbs are right next to the static handle and I can push down/forward on it with my thumbs to push the mower forward while not engaging PP at all.


Correct.



CPA Nerd said:


> Such a tough decision. I like being able to just push a lever on the mower and go such as with a Honda, but I also like the idea of "just walking" with the PP and having more of a leisure mow. I have heard people's thumbs get sore with Honda Smart Drive, but I really wouldn't know until I mow with it.


I have no idea if thumbs get sore when using other mowers. I just like being able to vary my walking speed at my leisure without having to adjust anything. But as mentioned, that's MY TASTE, yours may be different.



CPA Nerd said:


> What's the benefit other than a bigger engine (likely not necessary?), blade stop (I don't need it because I rarely bag), and a nexite deck (isn't steel good enough).


Benefit of a larger engine? None, unless the smaller engine is too small. Engine size requirements will depend on the actual load, so if you want to swing those fancy Honda blades, you'll need more power, just for that. If you run into heavy grass, you'll need more power for that too! The "Super Recycler" uses a twisted single blade.... it looks to be quite efficient, requiring less power than the multiblade stuff I see some Honda mowers or even the "gator" type blades used on the regular Toro Recycler. Think in terms of mowing your lawn with a broad sword OR a Katana. Both will cut the grass, but that broad sword is going to need more power to swing quickly enough. The Katana, being much lighter and sharp will require less power to be wasted on just getting the thing move. The actual cutting action relies on momentum, so minimising drag on the blade is important unless you just want to throw more power at it (read larger engine). As the old aeronautical designers used to say: "You can make a brick fly, if you use a big enough engine."

Plastic vs Steel vs Cast Aluminum:

All 3 materials make great mower decks, but...... there are tradeoffs with each type.

Plastic or Nexite (likely a fiber reinforced type of plastic): corrosion resistant and durable, but can be difficult to repair if something breaks... perhaps a moot point as it is very strong, but a loose bolt could eventually strip out threads of the Nexite and it may not be an easy fix.

Steel: Heavy, but very strong, resistant to impacts but unfortunately susceptible to corrosion (rusting). Repairs are often easy with regular welding techniques.

Cast Aluminum: Light weight, corrosion resistant, durable and repairable by welding, but not as easy to weld as steel. TIG welding would be the likely way to do such. My last mower was cast aluminum (Jacobsen Super Bagger) and the deck was in excellent shape after 34 years!

So, today I have a Toro Super Recycler, just the bog standard one without the blade clutch. It starts easy enough.

I looked at the regular recycler, but I prefer the aluminum deck and superior mulching of the Super Recycler, so to save money, I skimped on electric start, blade clutch and the optional Honda engine. Note though, if you opt for the blade clutch, you loose the extra wings above the blade that keep the clipping circulating inside the deck while it's mulching. I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but I wanted the best mulching I could get and decided to live without the clutch.


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## TN Hawkeye

ericgautier said:


> The Toro 20332 was my first mower and loved it (my brother has it now and it still mows awesome). The Personal Pace system is easy to use. No knobs or levers to worry about. The only thing I wished I sprung for when I bought it was the blade stop model especially when/if you are bagging.


Absolutely agree on the personal pace. I've had about every kind of self propelled in the past (except the Honda Smart Drive) and can say the PP is the best. While I've been down with my back my wife and my 11 year old son have both mowed with my mower. No adjustments were needed to the machine. They both simply walked at their preferred speed. There was a learning curve but they both got it pretty quickly. I've been extremely happy with the Toro.


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## FlowRider

For those of you who may not have seen the Honda Smart Drive system, here is what it looks like when you are behind it:



Sorry for the slightly out of focus iPotato picture. But this does show the relationship between the Smart Drive Control paddle switch and the drop of the handle bars where you can place your hands during normal operation.

Also, note that you can adjust the position of the Control to five different positions, depending on what you like. I have mine set up to where I can grab the handlebars with my fingers and wrap my thumbs around the paddle switch. You also have to hold the Blade Control with your hand(s) since it functions like a dead man's switch - if it is not held in place, the motor and the blades are switched off by what is effectively a kill switch.

Here's a quick video clip showing how it works in actual use:






As you can see in the video, the Smart Drive allows you to set your own pace as to how fast you want to walk behind the mower. And it is variable in its actuation - meaning if you want to barely move the wheels forward, you can just feather the paddles to very fluidly engage the drive wheels so you can literally creep the chassis forward, inching along as you go.

I really like both of these features. I like to adjust my speed depending on terrain, slope, what I am cutting around, etc. I use this mower to cut in around bushes, flowerbeds, tree rings, street sign poles, and my favorite yard art, the big red fire hydrant that graces my front sidewalk. I also can creep up to the curbs without going off the curb, when cutting in there.

For people who say the paddle switch hurts their thumbs, the last frames in the video show how not to even use your thumbs to use the paddle switch. I just rest my hand on the switch and grab on. It requires no usage of thumbs to use.

I can walk along the edge of curbs, feet in the street, and mow with one hand with one side of the four wheels (two wheels) resting on the curb, which lets you chamfer the edge of your edged outside trim once you are done edging. Looks real nice, and I have to say some of the neighbors tend to gawk at how easily I can mow with just one hand. It is fun!

Backing up is easy - let go of the paddle switch, and roll backwards. You do get some resistance from the drive system, so it does not roll freely backwards, but if you complain about stuff like that, maybe you should just stay inside in the A/C. If you have noodles for arms, you might complain it requires some exertion. If so, go back in the house, and hire someone.

Me, I have no problems with either mowing or backing up - if you have ever run a push mower, it takes about the same effort level. As the old saying goes: "If you cannot run with the big dogs, stay on the porch." Or sit inside with the A/C on. :lol:

Things I don't like? If you want to dump the bag, you have to kill the motor and blades. It is not a huge issue, and I usually stop and wipe the sweat off me with a towel so I can keep the salty sweat out of my eyes, and change to a dry headband. So it can be a benefit to allow you to recover, especially in the coming 100+ heat indexes of the brutal Texas summers.

And, yes, you will have to pull the rope handle to start the mower again. Or you can sit on the porch or in the A/C instead.

It does blow some dust, pollen, and silica crud around you, depending on the season. At times, I can look like Pig Pen on the Charlie Brown cartoons. But I get even more dust running the Hoover God John Deere "material collection system"...!

If you don't like turning the water brown when you first get in the shower, stay on the porch or join the ladies in the A/C.... 

I wear a nuisance particulate mask. Why? Because I like my lungs clear and my sinuses even clearer. You should too. :thumbup:

Get the kind with the malleable aluminum noise piece if you wear glasses or eye pro. And put some hearing pro on too.

You need to wash off the grass clippings bag and let it air dry to keep it from stinking like old mowed grass. I keep mine in the garage, so I wash it when I am done, stand it up in the Texas sun for about 10 minutes, and it is drier than Texas sand....

What do I like? It's a Honda. It starts on the second pull when cold - it has an automatic choke, so it runs a little rich then After that, it cranks on one pull. If you can't crank it on one pull, you belong on the porch or sitting with the ladies in the A/C. Try the lemonade, I've been told it is very refreshing! 

It cuts like a precision instrument. Twin blades. Can mulch or bag with the flip of a switch and removal/adding of the bag.

I had another Honda before this one, the $750 model with the Xenoy plastic composite space age never-gonna-rust deck. It had variable speed control for the motor, a manual choke, and a similar drive system. It lasted 20 years and my neighbor bought it off me for $260 when I moved. I could tell he always wanted it.... So when I needed a new one, Honda.

Four year warranty (usually three year) but Honda was having a Spring Fling or some sort of "buy it now" promotion.

My other one never went to the shop. Not once. Ever. I do my own maintenance. Air, oil, fuel filter and oil change, spark plug once a year, and run ethanol free premium. It has a carburetor, so ethanol fuel gums up if it sets up. Thanks EPA.

I have never had or used a Toro, so I cannot comment on them. The best lawn service in my 'hood uses them, though. They seem to work just fine, never saw one fail.

They also like my John Deere and I think they would kill for the North Star sprayer. I was out spraying weeds with the fan tip to smoke some resurgent nutsedge in a drive-by spot blanket-spraying session. Every time I looked up, they were all eyeballing me. Owner gives me the thumbs up. They use hand pumps and backpack sprayers. I think that may change.

So. would I recommend you buy a Honda mower? Without a shadow of a doubt, absolutely. In my book, they rule. YMMV.


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## kaptain_zero

Watch out for one of the most dreaded maladies around:

It's called "Paralysis by Analysis".

It's a terrible state of being..... The only cure is to pick the top 3 or so things that matter TO YOU, and pick the one "whatever it is" that fills those needs and be done with it. It may not be the perfect choice, but it IS your choice. Then it behooves us to remember that if you want to win the race, you have to "run whatcha brung". You will never win with the one you "wished" you had, only the one you do have.

Any of the mowers we've talked about in this thread will get the job done competently, so pays your moneys and takes your choice. :mrgreen:


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## dfw_pilot

kaptain_zero said:


> You will never win with the one you "wished" you had, only the one you do have.


_Of all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these, 'what might have been.'_


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## kaptain_zero

I figured seeing I was mowing MY lawn and had my phone with me, I'd snap a ciuple if photos illustrating how I drop my thumbs when needed, which was much less often than I thought.


----------



## CPA Nerd

@FlowRider and @kaptain_zero thank you both very much for the extremely detailed posts and for sharing your experiences.

I think I just need to find a way to try out both the HRR and Super Recycler. I have no doubt on the cutting ability of either; I just want the most comfortable mow. If I am unable to do that, I think I'll just suck it up and buy the Super Recycler. I have seen many excellent reviews of each, but I have seen more negative (although still not many) reviews of the HRR. I've seen things like the suction isn't good, it leaves a line of clumps near a tire, and leaves uncut grass. I'm sure I'd be happy with either, though.


----------



## FlowRider

@CPA Nerd You're most welcome!

I think either mower you are comparing will likely get the job done.

On my Hondas I have never had any issues with clumping, uneven or incomplete cuts, stragglers, or leaving grass behind. A lot of those issues sound like mowing grass that is too tall or too thick, and any mower will choke if you cram the mower's cutting chamber with too much vegetation or overload it. We all know this.

These comparison threads can leave other brand owners feeling defensive or maybe needing a cookie to feel better, or something, so I try not to step on anyone's toes.

I am not an "influencer" or work for anyone, nor am I paid to review or endorse - I am a homeowner who runs available equipment, and like you, want value in exchange for my capital. I do know a lot about engines from decades of experience, so I know motors, which is the heart of these beasts, so I do know how to pick them. And keep them running strong. Because that matters more than anything to me. I don't want to pay extra for repairs; just parts....

Honda is having a sale now, better deal than I got too. Still can get an extended warranty for free.

I humbly submit to you that there may be a quality business reason why a manufacturer would offer such a deal for free. Think about it. I can assure Honda would have all the data they need on that decision.

https://powerequipment.honda.com/promotions

As to test driving, my John Deere dealer let me test drive both mowers when I bought mine. I drove the tractor around inside their lot, and I started the Honda in their shop area, which I asked to see. That will tell you a lot about any dealership. And it lets you see what brands are breaking - so keep your eyes open - there is good intelligence there.

They might even let you mow their yards some. I just did that with a tractor I am thinking about buying.

Just like asking a pretty girl to dance. They might say no.

Or, you might just end up dancing.

Buying equipment should be a fun experience. I truly enjoy going to select my machines. I make it fun for everyone, as it should be. And I get a baseball cap out of every deal. Because I have made it fun.

Tell them you are a serious buyer, and they may let you get better treatment than the average guy who just walks into the showroom.

Ask me how I know. I really know how to dance, and I have a whole lot of baseball caps to choose from.


----------



## CPA Nerd

Here's another potentially stupid question. I tinkered with both the SR and HRR at a dealer in the showroom. The SR rolls backward freely, but the Honda gives a lot of resistance going backwards even without self propel, simply rolling it back and forth. Is there less resistance when the motor was running?

My current mower rolls freely back and forth when it's not turned on, as did the Super Recycler.


----------



## FlowRider

@CPA Nerd

The issue you describe is usually caused by the shop not properly checking and then correctly adjusting the Smart Drive Cable. Sometimes these shops use "assemblers" that are not trained service technicians, so they do not set this adjustment properly when they just put the machines together.

The adjuster jam nut has to be loosened, with the engine off. Then the technician (or properly trained "assembler") is supposed to pull the mower back without pushing the Smart Drive control.

The proper procedure requires the adjuster to be marked (using a paint pen is easiest) and the adjuster is supposed to be turned in the "Tighten" direction one turn at a time until the wheels lock up when pulling the mower rearward. Once this starting point is set, then the adjuster has to be turned in the "LOOSEN" direction eight (8) complete revolutions (which is why you mark the adjuster with paint). Once this adjustment has been made, the tech is supposed to tighten the jam nut to lock the adjuster in place. That properly sets the Smart Drive cable so the clutch works properly.

Some shops actually have the sales staff, or sometimes parts people, put the equipment together when things slow down in the front of the shop. These guys usually get it right, but some newbies have no clue and just happy slap stuff together to put it on the floor to display it.

That is why you want to make sure things run right before you leave the dealership, or accept delivery. Check the mower out and make sure it operates properly.

It is covered under the warranty, but it is best to just get it right before you leave the dealer. A good one does it for you...!


----------



## FlowRider

By the way, the above procedure will take someone all of five minutes, if they know what they are doing, 15 if not....

It is also spelled out in the owner's manual. One simple cable adjustment, and there is no issue. But it has to be set up right.

Oh, and if you are really needing to operate in reverse a lot, I think Toro makes a Super Recycler with self-propelled reverse.

Best of luck with your decision, and remember, don't leave the dealership unless and until you are happy with the mower.

You are putting down your hard-earned money to buy new equipment. It is their job to earn your hard-earned money...!


----------



## FlowRider

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoipxpA7Ins


----------



## CPA Nerd

Thanks again for the informative posts. I don't need to go in reverse any more than the average person. I just was wondering about the Honda. It makes sense that it is likely just the cable needing to be adjusted.

Assuming I bought it at Home Depot, is it spelled out in the manual how to do this properly? Don't they come assembled already in the box adjusted properly from the factory?


----------



## FlowRider

Yes, the Smart Drive cable adjustment procedure is in the Owner's Manual. It is much easier to do than to read about it,.

The mower comes shipped with assembly required to save space during transport. Have to assemble bars, etc. Easy.

If you buy at Home Depot, be sure and check that the Owner's Manual is included. They may even service it initially for you.

Be sure to register your unit for the free year of extended warranty if you get the Honda, unless Home Depot does it for you.

Ordinarily I would suggest buying one from a dealer, so you will have a place to go for service, and any warranty repairs.

With my Hondas, I never went back. Just be sure to shut off the fuel petcock (valve) and run it out of fuel before you store it for the winter. I run premium fuel in mine, too. No ethanol to evaporate off and turn into gummy varnish.... Runs cooler, too!


----------



## CPA Nerd

I would hope that it comes with the cable adjustes properly already. Perhaps the one at the dealer I tinkered with was not adjusted properly.


----------



## dfw_pilot

dfw_pilot said:


> You won't go wrong with either. Which one has a dealer closer to you?


I still recommend buying at a dealer, not a box store.


----------



## kaptain_zero

I'll have to second that comment. A good dealer is worth far more than the few dollars you *might* save at a big box store.


----------



## CPA Nerd

I will buy at a dealer to build the relationship and so that I can ask questions and have a resource for things, such as the cable adjustment that we discussed. However, doesn't a Toro or Honda dealer service Toros/Hondas for regular maintenance and warranty work regardless of where they were purchased?


----------



## FlowRider

Yes, an authorized dealer will service your mower no matter where you bought it. They will sell you parts you need for maintenance, etc., too.

Having a good relationship is very important though, and that usually starts with the initial visit and eventual purchase.

I have found that buying from a lawn and tractor dealer in your local area is a much better experience because they know their product better, and you get better service after the sale.

The hourly staff at big box stores rarely know much, and don't care what happens to your mower once it leaves the store (or before that, really).

I'm on a first name basis with the store manager, sales and parts staff at my dealer. They take good care of me because we do have that rapport. I don't know the service guys yet, and most of them would require me to speak Spanish, which I don't. (Texas). I haven't needed service yet. The top sales guy is bilingual if needed, so that is a plus.

Dealership route is the way to go, for sure.

You can see the whole lineup, too.


----------



## CPA Nerd

Gonna just keep being indecisive here.

How do the Super Recyclers bag? Good suction or mediocre?

How about leaf mulching? I have a few large trees and about three weeks of fall each year requires a fair amount of cleanup.


----------



## dfw_pilot

This may be out dated info, but I believe you can't buy the same top models at the box stores vs the dealers.


----------



## CPA Nerd

dfw_pilot said:


> This may be out dated info, but I believe you can't buy the same top models at the box stores vs the dealers.


The HRX is available at Home Depot but the Super Recyclers are not.


----------



## kaptain_zero

CPA Nerd said:


> Gonna just keep being indecisive here.
> 
> How do the Super Recyclers bag? Good suction or mediocre?
> 
> How about leaf mulching? I have a few large trees and about three weeks of fall each year requires a fair amount of cleanup.


My Super Recycler seems to do a decent job of suction.... perhaps not the best (I keep thinking my Jacobsen Super Bagger was better... but I don't really know), but I'm fine with it.

Leaf mulching.... If you have a large number of leaves, you're not going to mulch them into the lawn with ANY lawnmower. I usually toss my side discharge on the mower and corral the leaves into a pile by going round and round, then switch to mulching to chop them up and after a couple of passes, I'll switch to the bag and suck as much as I can up. This drastically reduces the number of paper bags I need to use as I have no where to put the mulched leaves.

Shopping at a big box store for your mower and then trying to get *free* advice and help from a local dealer is bad form. The handy dandy advice you get from your local dealer is well worth the few dollars you might have to pay to buy from them and they will likely shy away from doing the same to someone who bought their mower elsewhere to save a few nickles. The reason big box stores can undercut the prices is precisely because they don't pay for training staff to offer after sales service in the same way.

Yes, the local dealer has to provide warranty service on a mower bought from big box store, but only because he/she has to, as per their agreement with the manufacturer. There is no real money in warranty work..... and damhikt. So be nice to the local people who go out of their way to help you out if you help them by buying from them. That said, if the price seems waaay too high, perhaps it is, and you can and should question it.


----------



## Green

CPA Nerd said:


> Which model Toro has a Honda engine without Personal Pace?


20379. That's what I recently bought, because it was the only one with the Honda engine I could find. But it's on its way out. Hopefully they'll have other Honda engine models in the future.


----------



## CPA Nerd

kaptain_zero said:


> CPA Nerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gonna just keep being indecisive here.
> 
> How do the Super Recyclers bag? Good suction or mediocre?
> 
> How about leaf mulching? I have a few large trees and about three weeks of fall each year requires a fair amount of cleanup.
> 
> 
> 
> My Super Recycler seems to do a decent job of suction.... perhaps not the best (I keep thinking my Jacobsen Super Bagger was better... but I don't really know), but I'm fine with it.
> 
> Leaf mulching.... If you have a large number of leaves, you're not going to mulch them into the lawn with ANY lawnmower. I usually toss my side discharge on the mower and corral the leaves into a pile by going round and round, then switch to mulching to chop them up and after a couple of passes, I'll switch to the bag and suck as much as I can up. This drastically reduces the number of paper bags I need to use as I have no where to put the mulched leaves.
> 
> Shopping at a big box store for your mower and then trying to get *free* advice and help from a local dealer is bad form. The handy dandy advice you get from your local dealer is well worth the few dollars you might have to pay to buy from them and they will likely shy away from doing the same to someone who bought their mower elsewhere to save a few nickles. The reason big box stores can undercut the prices is precisely because they don't pay for training staff to offer after sales service in the same way.
> 
> Yes, the local dealer has to provide warranty service on a mower bought from big box store, but only because he/she has to, as per their agreement with the manufacturer. There is no real money in warranty work..... and damhikt. So be nice to the local people who go out of their way to help you out if you help them by buying from them. That said, if the price seems waaay too high, perhaps it is, and you can and should question it.
Click to expand...

Thanks. The HRR is only $20 more at the dealer than the box stores. No problem there. The Super Recycler is not even available at any box stores, to my knowledge.

I think I am basically set on the Super Recycler. I've read enough reviews of people saying the HRR or HRX have suction issues, leave blades of grass lying down, etc. I also think, but don't know for sure because I've never used it, that I will like the Personal Pace better than Smart or Select Drive. I like to zone out while mowing and get lost in my thoughts. I very much like a "leisure mow," as the Lawn Care Nut calls it. I have an average amount of obstacles but nothing crazy. A few trees to mow around, a fairly large mulch bed, up against the house, and that's about it. Probably 80% of my time mowing is simply back and forth. Personal Pace sounds nice and relaxing. Oh, and only one blade to sharpen, too.

Last (I think) dumb question: I know both Toro and Honda say 87+ octane with 10% or less ethanol is fine. That's your basic gas station gas. I've seen people say to get ethanol free. There isn't a station within 40 miles that has ethanol free gas. I'll ask at the dealer, but will I be okay with regular gas station premium fuel?


----------



## Green

I think there is currently a Super recycler with Honda engine as well, if you're looking for that...


----------



## kaptain_zero

Yes, your mower will run fine on 87 octane with 10% ethanol, however.... ethanol can increase corrosion inside the fuel system (carburetor etc.) and thus pure gasoline is preferred, or better yet, the synthetic fuels sold at most small engine dealers. Toro, for example, has their own brand if I recall correctly. The synthetic fuels are great, but they are not cheap. Some contractors find it worth the extra cost when compared to the cost of downtime and repairs, but I think they use mostly the 2 cycle stuff in chain saws, trimmers and the like, not their mowers, which use a whole lot more fuel. If you are willing to pay the price, the synthetic fuel is great stuff.

I live in Canada and all Premium (high octane) fuel sold in Canada is ethanol free. Mid and regular grades do have 10% ethanol. In the US, I think I heard that in some states you can purchase ethanol free gas for small engine use which is preferred over the 10% stuff. If you never let the mower sit for weeks on end without use, you can get away with the regular stuff, but I'd add some stabilizer to the gas, to be on the safe side. I do that with the premium gas I purchase here and once a month I empty that gas can into my car and get a fresh batch. Come the end of season and I just follow the manufacturers instructions on how to prep the engine for storage. I empty the fuel tank and then run the engine until it dies, and I also see if I can restart after a minute or two... We need all the fuel out of the carb to prevent any corrosion.

I service the engine (oil change) when I put it away for the winter. There can be some acid buildup from combustion bypass during use and there are solids in the engine oil that will settle over the winter months, so I change the oil in the fall to prevent that and besides... I'm so raring to go and get mowing in the spring that it just makes sense to have all the servicing already done, with a freshly sharpened blade and all.... I just need to get fresh gas, fire it up and then off I go!

As for a Honda engine, yes it's an available option on the Super Recycler, but it's at a premium cost that *I* don't think it's worth. Still, to each his own.... if you feel Honda engines are better and you are fine with the price premium, go ahead and fill yer boots!

I think you'll like the Super Recycler.... it sounds like it will fit your style of mowing perfectly with the personal pace system.

And, when you do buy a mower (any mower), buy a second blade at the same time. You can then just swap blades when it needs sharpening and sharpen the blade that came off the mower at your leisure.


----------



## dfw_pilot

kaptain_zero said:


> fill yer boots!


LOL. I haven't heard that one in a while. For me, it harkens back to my Aussie buddies in Hong Kong.

Carry on.


----------



## MMoore

kaptain_zero said:


> Yes, your mower will run fine on 87 octane with 10% ethanol, however.... ethanol can increase corrosion inside the fuel system (carburetor etc.) and thus pure gasoline is preferred, or better yet, the synthetic fuels sold at most small engine dealers. Toro, for example, has their own brand if I recall correctly. The synthetic fuels are great, but they are not cheap. Some contractors find it worth the extra cost when compared to the cost of downtime and repairs, but I think they use mostly the 2 cycle stuff in chain saws, trimmers and the like, not their mowers, which use a whole lot more fuel. If you are willing to pay the price, the synthetic fuel is great stuff.
> 
> I live in Canada and all Premium (high octane) fuel sold in Canada is ethanol free. Mid and regular grades do have 10% ethanol. In the US, I think I heard that in some states you can purchase ethanol free gas for small engine use which is preferred over the 10% stuff. If you never let the mower sit for weeks on end without use, you can get away with the regular stuff, but I'd add some stabilizer to the gas, to be on the safe side. I do that with the premium gas I purchase here and once a month I empty that gas can into my car and get a fresh batch. Come the end of season and I just follow the manufacturers instructions on how to prep the engine for storage. I empty the fuel tank and then run the engine until it dies, and I also see if I can restart after a minute or two... We need all the fuel out of the carb to prevent any corrosion.
> 
> I service the engine (oil change) when I put it away for the winter. There can be some acid buildup from combustion bypass during use and there are solids in the engine oil that will settle over the winter months, so I change the oil in the fall to prevent that and besides... I'm so raring to go and get mowing in the spring that it just makes sense to have all the servicing already done, with a freshly sharpened blade and all.... I just need to get fresh gas, fire it up and then off I go!
> 
> As for a Honda engine, yes it's an available option on the Super Recycler, but it's at a premium cost that *I* don't think it's worth. Still, to each his own.... if you feel Honda engines are better and you are fine with the price premium, go ahead and fill yer boots!
> 
> I think you'll like the Super Recycler.... it sounds like it will fit your style of mowing perfectly with the personal pace system.
> 
> And, when you do buy a mower (any mower), buy a second blade at the same time. You can then just swap blades when it needs sharpening and sharpen the blade that came off the mower at your leisure.


not all 91 in Canada is ethanol free.
Honda owners manual suggests not letting the tank and such sit dry for long storage.


----------



## kaptain_zero

MMoore said:


> kaptain_zero said:
> 
> 
> 
> I empty the fuel tank and then run the engine until it dies, and I also see if I can restart after a minute or two... We need all the fuel out of the carb to prevent any corrosion.
> 
> 
> 
> not all 91 in Canada is ethanol free.
> Honda owners manual suggests not letting the tank and such sit dry for long storage.
Click to expand...

I was not aware that there were provinces that didn't provide ethanol free Premium gas.... I learned something new! :thumbup:

As for Honda recommending NOT to let the fuel tank sit dry during storage, it is because they chose to use a painted steel fuel tank, which will rust internally if there is a break in the coating, but this will also happen if you leave an ethanol based fuel without corrosion prevention additives in it, as ethanol will attract water from the air and the fuel tank cap must allow air to enter or escape in order for the engine to run.

Toro uses a polycarbonate fuel tank so it won't corrode, and the internals of the carburetor will be sufficiently protected if you use a fuel stabilizer, no matter if you use fuel with or without ethanol, as long as you run it dry at the end of the season, and Toro recommends this in their manual.


----------



## MMoore

kaptain_zero said:


> MMoore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kaptain_zero said:
> 
> 
> 
> I empty the fuel tank and then run the engine until it dies, and I also see if I can restart after a minute or two... We need all the fuel out of the carb to prevent any corrosion.
> 
> 
> 
> not all 91 in Canada is ethanol free.
> Honda owners manual suggests not letting the tank and such sit dry for long storage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was not aware that there were provinces that didn't provide ethanol free Premium gas.... I learned something new! :thumbup:
> 
> As for Honda recommending NOT to let the fuel tank sit dry during storage, it is because they chose to use a painted steel fuel tank, which will rust internally if there is a break in the coating, but this will also happen if you leave an ethanol based fuel without corrosion prevention additives in it, as ethanol will attract water from the air and the fuel tank cap must allow air to enter or escape in order for the engine to run.
> 
> Toro uses a polycarbonate fuel tank so it won't corrode, and the internals of the carburetor will be sufficiently protected if you use a fuel stabilizer, no matter if you use fuel with or without ethanol, as long as you run it dry at the end of the season, and Toro recommends this in their manual.
Click to expand...

that's interesting. I will have to look but my '19 hrx I didn't think the tank was metal. will have to look again.


----------



## Dewiz

CPA Nerd said:


> kaptain_zero said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CPA Nerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gonna just keep being indecisive here.
> 
> How do the Super Recyclers bag? Good suction or mediocre?
> 
> How about leaf mulching? I have a few large trees and about three weeks of fall each year requires a fair amount of cleanup.
> 
> 
> 
> My Super Recycler seems to do a decent job of suction.... perhaps not the best (I keep thinking my Jacobsen Super Bagger was better... but I don't really know), but I'm fine with it.
> 
> Leaf mulching.... If you have a large number of leaves, you're not going to mulch them into the lawn with ANY lawnmower. I usually toss my side discharge on the mower and corral the leaves into a pile by going round and round, then switch to mulching to chop them up and after a couple of passes, I'll switch to the bag and suck as much as I can up. This drastically reduces the number of paper bags I need to use as I have no where to put the mulched leaves.
> 
> Shopping at a big box store for your mower and then trying to get *free* advice and help from a local dealer is bad form. The handy dandy advice you get from your local dealer is well worth the few dollars you might have to pay to buy from them and they will likely shy away from doing the same to someone who bought their mower elsewhere to save a few nickles. The reason big box stores can undercut the prices is precisely because they don't pay for training staff to offer after sales service in the same way.
> 
> Yes, the local dealer has to provide warranty service on a mower bought from big box store, but only because he/she has to, as per their agreement with the manufacturer. There is no real money in warranty work..... and damhikt. So be nice to the local people who go out of their way to help you out if you help them by buying from them. That said, if the price seems waaay too high, perhaps it is, and you can and should question it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks. The HRR is only $20 more at the dealer than the box stores. No problem there. The Super Recycler is not even available at any box stores, to my knowledge.
> 
> I think I am basically set on the Super Recycler. I've read enough reviews of people saying the HRR or HRX have suction issues, leave blades of grass lying down, etc. I also think, but don't know for sure because I've never used it, that I will like the Personal Pace better than Smart or Select Drive. I like to zone out while mowing and get lost in my thoughts. I very much like a "leisure mow," as the Lawn Care Nut calls it. I have an average amount of obstacles but nothing crazy. A few trees to mow around, a fairly large mulch bed, up against the house, and that's about it. Probably 80% of my time mowing is simply back and forth. Personal Pace sounds nice and relaxing. Oh, and only one blade to sharpen, too.
> 
> Last (I think) dumb question: I know both Toro and Honda say 87+ octane with 10% or less ethanol is fine. That's your basic gas station gas. I've seen people say to get ethanol free. There isn't a station within 40 miles that has ethanol free gas. I'll ask at the dealer, but will I be okay with regular gas station premium fuel?
Click to expand...

@CPA Nerd 
You won't be disappointed with the Super Recycler.

I had 2 Honda HRX's with the 200 GCV engine and both had suctions issues while leaving uncut strips of grass that I took them both back and finally got a Toro Super Recycler with the Honda engine model 20382. I didn't need the next model above the 20382 Super Recycler cause I didn't want the blade stop function since I hardly ever bag.

What I like about the Super Recycler over the HRX is that it's a lot lighter than the HRX by 25 pounds or so, so maneuvering around shrubs, trees, edging, etc was less of a pain in the rear. It glides on the concrete a lot easier than the HRX and the Personal Pace system is WAY better than Honda's butterfly throttle control system. There were several cases where my thumbs would get sore while pushing down the lever. I would place my palms on the lever instead of my thumbs and within a few minutes later my thumbs are back on the lever.

I mow my grass now at 3 3/4" since the SR doesn't have a 4" height setting (does have a 4 1/2" setting) and mow every 4 days and it doesn't leave strips of uncut grass that my HRX did. My lawn now has that sharp buzz cut look after every mow something that I wasn't used to seeing with my HRX.


----------



## ZachUA

Which one will cut the lowest?


----------



## CPA Nerd

Dewiz said:


> CPA Nerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kaptain_zero said:
> 
> 
> 
> My Super Recycler seems to do a decent job of suction.... perhaps not the best (I keep thinking my Jacobsen Super Bagger was better... but I don't really know), but I'm fine with it.
> 
> Leaf mulching.... If you have a large number of leaves, you're not going to mulch them into the lawn with ANY lawnmower. I usually toss my side discharge on the mower and corral the leaves into a pile by going round and round, then switch to mulching to chop them up and after a couple of passes, I'll switch to the bag and suck as much as I can up. This drastically reduces the number of paper bags I need to use as I have no where to put the mulched leaves.
> 
> Shopping at a big box store for your mower and then trying to get *free* advice and help from a local dealer is bad form. The handy dandy advice you get from your local dealer is well worth the few dollars you might have to pay to buy from them and they will likely shy away from doing the same to someone who bought their mower elsewhere to save a few nickles. The reason big box stores can undercut the prices is precisely because they don't pay for training staff to offer after sales service in the same way.
> 
> Yes, the local dealer has to provide warranty service on a mower bought from big box store, but only because he/she has to, as per their agreement with the manufacturer. There is no real money in warranty work..... and damhikt. So be nice to the local people who go out of their way to help you out if you help them by buying from them. That said, if the price seems waaay too high, perhaps it is, and you can and should question it.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. The HRR is only $20 more at the dealer than the box stores. No problem there. The Super Recycler is not even available at any box stores, to my knowledge.
> 
> I think I am basically set on the Super Recycler. I've read enough reviews of people saying the HRR or HRX have suction issues, leave blades of grass lying down, etc. I also think, but don't know for sure because I've never used it, that I will like the Personal Pace better than Smart or Select Drive. I like to zone out while mowing and get lost in my thoughts. I very much like a "leisure mow," as the Lawn Care Nut calls it. I have an average amount of obstacles but nothing crazy. A few trees to mow around, a fairly large mulch bed, up against the house, and that's about it. Probably 80% of my time mowing is simply back and forth. Personal Pace sounds nice and relaxing. Oh, and only one blade to sharpen, too.
> 
> Last (I think) dumb question: I know both Toro and Honda say 87+ octane with 10% or less ethanol is fine. That's your basic gas station gas. I've seen people say to get ethanol free. There isn't a station within 40 miles that has ethanol free gas. I'll ask at the dealer, but will I be okay with regular gas station premium fuel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @CPA Nerd
> You won't be disappointed with the Super Recycler.
> 
> I had 2 Honda HRX's with the 200 GCV engine and both had suctions issues while leaving uncut strips of grass that I took them both back and finally got a Toro Super Recycler with the Honda engine model 20382. I didn't need the next model above the 20382 Super Recycler cause I didn't want the blade stop function since I hardly ever bag.
> 
> What I like about the Super Recycler over the HRX is that it's a lot lighter than the HRX by 25 pounds or so, so maneuvering around shrubs, trees, edging, etc was less of a pain in the rear. It glides on the concrete a lot easier than the HRX and the Personal Pace system is WAY better than Honda's butterfly throttle control system. There were several cases where my thumbs would get sore while pushing down the lever. I would place my palms on the lever instead of my thumbs and within a few minutes later my thumbs are back on the lever.
> 
> I mow my grass now at 3 3/4" since the SR doesn't have a 4" height setting (does have a 4 1/2" setting) and mow every 4 days and it doesn't leave strips of uncut grass that my HRX did. My lawn now has that sharp buzz cut look after every mow something that I wasn't used to seeing with my HRX.
Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing your experience. I am ready to pull the trigger. Just need to get my dad to let me borrow his car or help me on a weekend because I suspect it may be a tight fit in my Honda Accord.


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## FlowRider

You own a Honda Accord, and you have a chance to buy a mower, and yet you don't want another Honda in the garage? K.

Best of luck with your decision, and I hope whatever you pick works out for you.

Me, later on I'm gonna fire up my Honda and go trim the liriope back in my flower beds, and finish cutting in my yard edges.


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## ericgautier

@CPA Nerd did you pick it up yet? I might pick one up myself. I found a used SR4 (20056) locally. It has blade stop and electric start.


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## CPA Nerd

ericgautier said:


> @CPA Nerd did you pick it up yet? I might pick one up myself. I found a used SR4 (20056) locally. It has blade stop and electric start.


I have not. We had a death in the family, work has been busy, we have a couple relatives coming into town, and this weekend is Father's Day. Too much going on!

Good find on the used one. I have been looking but haven't found anything worth checking out. Plus, selfishly, I kind of want a shiny new one. I haven't had a new mower, ever.


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## glenmonte

ericgautier said:


> @CPA Nerd did you pick it up yet? I might pick one up myself. I found a used SR4 (20056) locally. It has blade stop and electric start.


I just got a 36 inch, and I'm thinking about off loading a year old 20383. Would you want to take a look? Easy to throw in the back of my truck and meet you somewhere.


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## ericgautier

glenmonte said:


> I just got a 36 inch, and I'm thinking about off loading a year old 20383. Would you want to take a look? Easy to throw in the back of my truck and meet you somewhere.


Tempting... sending you a PM.


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## CPA Nerd

Hey guys, I found a SR20381, three years old with a picture of receipt for the purchase. He says it runs like new and has maintenance records. $225. Claims he only used it 1.5 seasons and decided to get a bigger mower.
.
Any reason not to jump on it? Not being mechanically inclined, what should I look out for?


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## ctrav

CPA Nerd said:


> Hey guys, I found a SR20381, three years old with a picture of receipt for the purchase. He says it runs like new and has maintenance records. $225. Claims he only used it 1.5 seasons and decided to get a bigger mower.
> .
> Any reason not to jump on it? Not being mechanically inclined, what should I look out for?


Is it what you want
Does it fit your budget
Have you seen it
Offer $175 cash in person after looking it over, starting it up (should start on first or second pull), check the blade, wear on the wheels. Plan on changing oil and filter but look over the records...


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## FlowRider

CPA Nerd said:


> Hey guys, I found a SR20381, three years old with a picture of receipt for the purchase. He says it runs like new and has maintenance records. $225. Claims he only used it 1.5 seasons and decided to get a bigger mower.
> .
> Any reason not to jump on it? Not being mechanically inclined, what should I look out for?


One reason: it is out of its warranty coverage period. So if it does break, you are going to pay out of pocket to fix it....

Do you know anybody who is a decent mechanic? Can you take them along to look at it before you buy it?

You could ask one of the Toro service center mechanics to come check it out - might be worth paying him $50 to avoid getting stuck with a problem that will cost a lot more if you don't know what to look for...just saying.

That is why I buy new. Get full warranty coverage, take care of the unit, never spend any money on repairs. Life lesson.

But its your money, and I do not know your financial situation (although most CPAs I know do pretty well...) - your call...!


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## CPA Nerd

I test ran the Toro PP today. Feels way different than a typical self propelled mower. When I turned around, I found I was still pushing a bit on the PP and jolted forward as I was trying to turn around. I was used to just letting go of the self propel lever on my mower as I'm getting ready to turn.

I'm sure I'd get used to it, but my initial impression is that I feel less in control and may prefer the full in control feel of the hand levers on a typical self propelled mower.

I never have this kind of trouble making decisions. I had no hesitation buying my car, accepting my job, or getting engaged, but I'm so wishy washy about a stupid lawn mower!


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## FlowRider

I do not think it is wishy washy to take into consideration whether or not you can safely operate the mower as designed.

It is far better to find things out before you buy than to have to go to a reconstructive plastic surgeon if you do get injured.

That is why I like Honda's blade control. Something happens, let it go. Blade stops right then and there. Kill switch engaged.

You can trip over hidden obstructions. You can stumble when you walk. Power mowers amputate. Better safe than sorry....

I met a man named "Nubbie." I knew his real name. I asked him how he became Nubbie. Held up his hand, middle and index finger were missing. Just the first knuckle of each remaining. He looked at me and smiled, and said "Farm accident."

Again, I don't think you can go wrong with either of the two mowers you are looking at. But make sure it works for YOU.... :thumbup:


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## CPA Nerd

FlowRider said:


> I do not think it is wishy washy to take into consideration whether or not you can safely operate the mower as designed.
> 
> It is far better to find things out before you buy than to have to go to a reconstructive plastic surgeon if you do get injured.
> 
> That is why I like Honda's blade control. Something happens, let it go. Blade stops right then and there. Kill switch engaged.
> 
> You can trip over hidden obstructions. You can stumble when you walk. Power mowers amputate. Better safe than sorry....
> 
> I met a man named "Nubbie." I knew his real name. I asked him how he became Nubbie. Held up his hand, middle and index finger were missing. Just the first knuckle of each remaining. He looked at me and smiled, and said "Farm accident."
> 
> Again, I don't think you can go wrong with either of the two mowers you are looking at. But make sure it works for YOU.... :thumbup:


Thanks for your perspective. I like EVERYTHING about the Honda better except one thing: I fear that I'm going to have the uncut grass problem that I've read about. I mow pretty high, mulch at 3.5+ inches every time.

I can rear discharge, creating more suction, but then do I sacrifice some of the mulching performance and end up with larger clippings? If so that kind of defeats the purpose because my goal is a great mulcher.


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## kaptain_zero

I don't think there is a better way to learn things than watch an LCN video!

Here's one on the Personal Pace setup and common issues:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8HARSzLUJI&t=7s


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## CPA Nerd

I FINALLY bit the bullet today and bought the Super Recycler model 21381. Can't wait to take it on its maiden voyage.


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## lambert

CPA Nerd said:


> I test ran the Toro PP today. Feels way different than a typical self propelled mower. When I turned around, I found I was still pushing a bit on the PP and jolted forward as I was trying to turn around. I was used to just letting go of the self propel lever on my mower as I'm getting ready to turn.
> 
> I'm sure I'd get used to it, but my initial impression is that I feel less in control and may prefer the full in control feel of the hand levers on a typical self propelled mower.
> 
> I never have this kind of trouble making decisions. I had no hesitation buying my car, accepting my job, or getting engaged, but I'm so wishy washy about a stupid lawn mower!


You are just not used to personal pace yet. It is very easy to use once you get a feel for it.

Both the SR and the HRX are well made mowers that will get the job done. I like the SR better; it is just lighter and more nimble and I find the HRXs a bit bulbous. I suppose Honda had to make the HRX deck sort of bulbous to make it rigid enough since it's made out of plastic. I think you will like your new Super Recycler; I think it's the best homeowner 21" rotary available.


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## ericgautier

CPA Nerd said:


> I FINALLY bit the bullet today and bought the Super Recycler model 21381. Can't wait to take it on its maiden voyage.


Congrats! Let us know your thoughts after trying it out for awhile. :thumbup:


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## TN Hawkeye

lambert said:


> CPA Nerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> I test ran the Toro PP today. Feels way different than a typical self propelled mower. When I turned around, I found I was still pushing a bit on the PP and jolted forward as I was trying to turn around. I was used to just letting go of the self propel lever on my mower as I'm getting ready to turn.
> 
> I'm sure I'd get used to it, but my initial impression is that I feel less in control and may prefer the full in control feel of the hand levers on a typical self propelled mower.
> 
> I never have this kind of trouble making decisions. I had no hesitation buying my car, accepting my job, or getting engaged, but I'm so wishy washy about a stupid lawn mower!
> 
> 
> 
> You are just not used to personal pace yet. It is very easy to use once you get a feel for it.
Click to expand...

+1 The first time I used my personal pace system it almost jerked my shoulders out of socket. It took several mows to really get the hang of it. By the 5th mow I was whipping turns and starting and stopping with no issue. You will love it.


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## FlowRider

You should have just gone with a customized lawn mowing solution:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_zmIwUtU1k


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## CPA Nerd

ericgautier said:


> CPA Nerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> I FINALLY bit the bullet today and bought the Super Recycler model 21381. Can't wait to take it on its maiden voyage.
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats! Let us know your thoughts after trying it out for awhile. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Will do! I think the maiden voyage will be tomorrow evening, but it depends on the weather.


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## CPA Nerd

FlowRider said:


> You should have just gone with a customized lawn mowing solution:


Work smarter, not harder!


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## CPA Nerd

The maiden voyage of the Toro Super Recycler is complete.

I mowed five days after my last mow and brought the HOC to 3.25 (I previously mowed at 3.75), violating the 1/3 rule pretty much across the entire lawn. It did not bog down at all and I did not see any clumps. My previous mower would have been leaving clumps and visible clippings all over the place and would be bogging down routinely. I think the deck design is what makes this mower so great. I was able to mow faster than I did with my other mower as well. Not speed walking, just a regular medium walking pace.

The Personal Pace is easy to operate and I got the hang of going back and forth quickly. The PP bar squeaks every time I engage it, nothing wrong with it mechanically but rather annoying. I'm sure there's something that I could oil, but I haven't had a chance to figure that out yet. Any thoughts?

The wheels are outstanding and it is so easy and smooth to push the mower when it's not running, such as from the garage to the lawn, across the driveway, etc.

Since I got model 21381, it has the isoflex handle. The ride was smooth, although because I'm not used to it, it felt flimsy at first. That's the design, though, so you don't feel the bumps and the mower deck stays down. It worked fine. I don't really have a preference on it.

The Toro 159cc engine ran and sounded like every Honda engine I've ever heard.


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## ctrav

CPA Nerd said:


> The maiden voyage of the Toro Super Recycler is complete.
> 
> I mowed five days after my last mow and brought the HOC to 3.25 (I previously mowed at 3.75), violating the 1/3 rule pretty much across the entire lawn. It did not bog down at all and I did not see any clumps. My previous mower would have been leaving clumps and visible clippings all over the place and would be bogging down routinely. I think the deck design is what makes this mower so great. I was able to mow faster than I did with my other mower as well. Not speed walking, just a regular medium walking pace.
> 
> The Personal Pace is easy to operate and I got the hang of going back and forth quickly. The PP bar squeaks every time I engage it, nothing wrong with it mechanically but rather annoying. I'm sure there's something that I could oil, but I haven't had a chance to figure that out yet. Any thoughts?
> 
> The wheels are outstanding and it is so easy and smooth to push the mower when it's not running, such as from the garage to the lawn, across the driveway, etc.
> 
> Since I got model 21381, it has the isoflex handle. The ride was smooth, although because I'm not used to it, it felt flimsy at first. That's the design, though, so you don't feel the bumps and the mower deck stays down. It worked fine. I don't really have a preference on it.
> 
> The Toro 159cc engine ran and sounded like every Honda engine I've ever heard.


Good your happy with the TSR!


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## kaptain_zero

What ever you use on the squeek, make sure it's a Dry lube so it doesn't attract dust which will just hasten wear. There are spray graphite, PTFE and such that spray on wet, but dry in a matter of minutes. My guess is a spring, control cable or some such, rubbing somewhere.

Otherwise, it sounds like you are happy with your choice, but remember that even a Toro mower should follow the 1/3 rule! &#128513;


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## CPA Nerd

kaptain_zero said:


> What ever you use on the squeek, make sure it's a Dry lube so it doesn't attract dust which will just hasten wear. There are spray graphite, PTFE and such that spray on wet, but dry in a matter of minutes. My guess is a spring, control cable or some such, rubbing somewhere.
> 
> Otherwise, it sounds like you are happy with your choice, but remember that even a Toro mower should follow the 1/3 rule! 😁


It sounds like it is right at the PP handle. Maybe I'll just spray it and push the handle up and down a bit and see if that takes care of it.


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## kaptain_zero

CPA Nerd said:


> It sounds like it is right at the PP handle. Maybe I'll just spray it and push the handle up and down a bit and see if that takes care of it.


Yep, a spritz of some type of dry lube should do the trick. Avoid things like WD40 etc. as they will remain wet and mix with dust, becoming a grinding paste that will wear stuff out prematurely.


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## CPA Nerd

kaptain_zero said:


> CPA Nerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like it is right at the PP handle. Maybe I'll just spray it and push the handle up and down a bit and see if that takes care of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, a spritz of some type of dry lube should do the trick. Avoid things like WD40 etc. as they will remain wet and mix with dust, becoming a grinding paste that will wear stuff out prematurely.
Click to expand...

Thanks! WD40 makes a dry lube that my orange box store has. I think it's a PTFE spray.


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## kaptain_zero

CPA Nerd said:


> kaptain_zero said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CPA Nerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like it is right at the PP handle. Maybe I'll just spray it and push the handle up and down a bit and see if that takes care of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, a spritz of some type of dry lube should do the trick. Avoid things like WD40 etc. as they will remain wet and mix with dust, becoming a grinding paste that will wear stuff out prematurely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks! WD40 makes a dry lube that my orange box store has. I think it's a PTFE spray.
Click to expand...

We're still waiting for your final report, the one that says you've licked the squeak and love the mower! :mrgreen:


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## CPA Nerd

kaptain_zero said:


> CPA Nerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kaptain_zero said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, a spritz of some type of dry lube should do the trick. Avoid things like WD40 etc. as they will remain wet and mix with dust, becoming a grinding paste that will wear stuff out prematurely.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! WD40 makes a dry lube that my orange box store has. I think it's a PTFE spray.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We're still waiting for your final report, the one that says you've licked the squeak and love the mower! :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

I haven't done anything else yet besides that first mow. I may mow again tonight, although it's only been six days and it's been 90+ degrees for several days now. Some parts of the lawn need a mow but others (full sun areas) look like it barely grew.

I can't replicate the squeak in the garage so it either worked itself out or it only happens while the engine is running.

I do love the mower. It is an incredible mulcher.


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## ericgautier

CPA Nerd said:


> I do love the mower. It is an incredible mulcher.


Good to hear!


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## CPA Nerd

I mowed yesterday. It had been six days since my last mow and we had some heavy rains over the weekend, so several areas of the lawn were quite long. This thing mulches the crap out of grass that my old mower wouldn't go two feet in without clumps. It is truly a fantastic mulching mower. I have no experience with the Hondas and I'm sure they're also fantastic mulchers, but I can't imagine anything mulching _better_ than this. I see no trace of anything. It feels like such a luxury after 3 years with my other mower having to constantly stop and kick clumps around with my feet to spread them out, go very slow, overlap so much, or go over areas twice. Now, with this mower, I don't even think about it. I just mow.

Not surprisingly, it still squeaks when I engage the self propel, and it sounds like it's coming from near the handle. Not sure what I would even lubricate to help. It's more of a minor annoyance than anything.

I tried to increase the responsiveness of the PP by moving the cable down and it helped(when engaging PP it jumped forward quicker than before) but then the mower wouldn't pull backwards, even when disengaged and rolled out. I loosened the cable again and now it pulls backwards fine. I'd like to find the sweet spot and get a little more responsiveness but also be able to pull the mower backwards. I'll tinker with it before my next mow.


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## kaptain_zero

CPA Nerd said:


> I mowed yesterday. It had been six days since my last mow and we had some heavy rains over the weekend, so several areas of the lawn were quite long. This thing mulches the crap out of grass that my old mower wouldn't go two feet in without clumps. It is truly a fantastic mulching mower. I have no experience with the Hondas and I'm sure they're also fantastic mulchers, but I can't imagine anything mulching _better_ than this. I see no trace of anything. It feels like such a luxury after 3 years with my other mower having to constantly stop and kick clumps around with my feet to spread them out, go very slow, overlap so much, or go over areas twice. Now, with this mower, I don't even think about it. I just mow.
> 
> Not surprisingly, it still squeaks when I engage the self propel, and it sounds like it's coming from near the handle. Not sure what I would even lubricate to help. It's more of a minor annoyance than anything.
> 
> I tried to increase the responsiveness of the PP by moving the cable down and it helped(when engaging PP it jumped forward quicker than before) but then the mower wouldn't pull backwards, even when disengaged and rolled out. I loosened the cable again and now it pulls backwards fine. I'd like to find the sweet spot and get a little more responsiveness but also be able to pull the mower backwards. I'll tinker with it before my next mow.


Mulching... yes, it doesn't get much (any?) better than the Toro Super Recycler.

A dry squeak from the PP handle area can be difficult to nail down.... If you can live with it, it might just stop on it's own. It could be something like a bit of plastic flashing from the molding process that will wear off with use. If it persists... you bought it at a dealer so you would be taken care of, and so that's where you should take it if it continues to bother you.

Personal Pace adjustment is a personal (DOH) thing and it will take some diddling to get it exactly where you like it. About the roll out thing... I find I have to drop my thumbs and pull back on the PP handle for the last foot or so before pulling back as the PP handle springs are quite light and sometimes don't completely push the handle back when I stop.

If you adjust the cable too tight, it won't release (as you discovered). You may find that you can slack that cable a bit more once you get used to the machine. I NEVER feel the mower engaging the drive system. I just push it like a normal mower and it just feels really light to push, exactly the way I like it. I HATE machines that are more active and make ME keep up with the pace!

Regards

Christian aka

Kaptain "Glad we didn't steer you wrong" Zero


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## CPA Nerd

kaptain_zero said:


> If you adjust the cable too tight, it won't release (as you discovered). You may find that you can slack that cable a bit more once you get used to the machine. I NEVER feel the mower engaging the drive system. I just push it like a normal mower and it just feels really light to push, exactly the way I like it. I HATE machines that are more active and make ME keep up with the pace!
> 
> Regards
> 
> Christian aka
> 
> Kaptain "Glad we didn't steer you wrong" Zero


I want it to be a little "active." Right now the PP handle needs to be pushed in say, 1 inch before it starts moving (I'm just making that up, but it's probably in the ballpark). I want that to be less, say a half inch, so that it is more responsive.

Really, these are just insignificant details. I'm very happy with the mower and cut quality. I feel like it leaves better looking grooves in the tire tracks and keeps that "just mowed" look longer. Maybe because they're meatier tires than the plastic ones on my old Husqvarna, or maybe they're a little wider, who knows? I don't know if the grooves are deeper or what, but the lawn looks great. Not matted down too much in the tire tracks, just a nice look to it.

Thanks for all your posts and helping me out! I probably still would have been on the fence without all the helpful replies in this thread! :thumbup:


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## CPA Nerd

OP here.

More than two months after purchase, I still love the Super Recycler. With the summer heat, I did not mow as often (maybe every 7-9 days) because most of the grass wasn't growing much, but I have a couple shady areas where the grass grows throughout the summer at the same rate as spring. Thus, that grass was extremely long each time I mowed. The Super Recycler mulched it up and didn't bog down. I did have a couple spots where I wouldn't say it clumped, but left visible clippings along the wheel line. However, when coming back, I just overlapped a bit more and it cleaned it all up.

The mower is fantastic at mulching. I side discharged one time and it did a great job. I haven't bagged yet, but will be this weekend in preparation for a bit of overseeding and seeding a couple bare spots here and there.


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## kaptain_zero

I'm glad you are happy with your choice, and yes, you are getting the same results as I did. My old Jacobson mower had better bagging suction, but not by very much. I have no regrets as the mulching more than makes up for it. And, for the record... I *THINK* the old mower had better bagging, but it's so close, it might just be my fuzzy memory! :mrgreen:


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