# Leveled ground, To Seed or to Sod?



## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

I finally finished leveling my ground to the best of my abilities. I am ready for grass and plan to use bermuda Tifway 419 with the perennial rye.

I am having a tough time deciding between seeding my back yard or using sod. Here are the advantages/disadvantages I see to both. I am new at this so please don't be afraid to give me your input or call me out where I am wrong.

*Sod*

Advantages
-Instant gratification. No wait times for growth, instant green
-Wont need to seed Bermuda in the Spring
-Will make my ground more level? Let me know what you think about this one

Disadvantages
-More Expensive than seed $500 vs $50-100
-Will raise my ground slightly higher than seed, about 1/2" (prefer low ground)
-Installation more labor intensive than throwing seed

*Seed*

Advantages
-Cheaper
-Easy to install, just spread the seed
-Ground will be nice and low

Disadvantages
-No instant gratification
-Wait time for growth
-Will have to fill in spots that have no growth overtime
-Will have to add Bermuda Seed in the Spring

I don't know, typing it out now, I feel like just taking the $500 hit and adding sod. I don't think it will be that difficult to install.

I'm curious what everyone thinks, my Dad is helping and he is telling me to just throw the seed to save money. He says it grows fast.

You guys are the experts, I'm just an amateur. Let me know!


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

Oh yeah, this is for 900 sq. feet of backyard. I live in Cali guys, real estate is pricey over here.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

What is your plan for the lawn after it has matured? Going with sod will get you a higher quality turf over seed, generally speaking. It may be a little more work up front but once you are done all you have to worry about is watering it. With only 900 sq/ft you could be done in just a few hours.

If it was me, I would sod as it's not too much more money and you are almost guaranteed on the outcome.


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

I agree with MQ, the Sod will also take less water and have less weeds during the establishment period. I'm guessing water will add some big $$ to your budget in the California market.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

If it's only 900 sqft then I would sod for sure. $500 seems high for 2 pallets of 419


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

J_nick said:


> If it's only 900 sqft then I would sod for sure. $500 seems high for 2 pallets of 419


You have to figure in the tax in CA :lol:


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> What is your plan for the lawn after it has matured? Going with sod will get you a higher quality turf over seed, generally speaking. It may be a little more work up front but once you are done all you have to worry about is watering it. With only 900 sq/ft you could be done in just a few hours.
> 
> If it was me, I would sod as it's not too much more money and you are almost guaranteed on the outcome.


Thanks for your input Mightquinn.

My plan after lawn has matured is to keep it low like the golf courses out here in Palm Springs. 

I didn't know sod would be higher quality turf than seed. I also calculate I can be done in 2-4 hrs because I am a newbie.



Redtenchu said:


> I agree with MQ, the Sod will also take less water and have less weeds during the establishment period. I'm guessing water will add some big $$ to your budget in the California market.


Thanks Red...
I don't know how much more my water bill will be because I have desert landscape in the front and dirt in the back.

Does perennial rye seed have weeds? Reason I ask is I bought a new home with a backyard full of dirt. I added irrigation and have been watering it and to my surprise have not grown any weeds for about a month now.

I figure it will be a lot more for water but I did install the Rachio Controller and its hooked up to a local weather station. So...I hope it saves me $$$ on water.



J_nick said:


> If it's only 900 sqft then I would sod for sure. $500 seems high for 2 pallets of 419


Im buying it at 55cents/sq ft. and that price is actually without tax. Add another 50 bucks with tax.



Mightyquinn said:


> J_nick said:
> 
> 
> > If it's only 900 sqft then I would sod for sure. $500 seems high for 2 pallets of 419
> ...


Yes, everything in Cali is tax, tax, tax.


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

Looks like I am going with sod....

Before I do that i will add concrete curbing for the planters. I think this will make it easier for me to install the sod.


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

My suggestion would be to get a gas powered reel mower first, *THEN* weigh out the options on whether to seed or lay down.

I am just kidding. I sorry to say that I can not offer an advise on bermuda seed vs sod. I mow a cool season lawn.


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

wardconnor said:


> My suggestion would be to get a gas powered reel mower first, *THEN* weigh out the options on whether to seed or lay down.
> 
> I am just kidding. I sorry to say that I can not offer an advise on bermuda seed vs sod. I mow a cool season lawn.


Well... I will admit I have my sights set on a John Deer reel mower but I want to get that sod down first.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

I think the decision is real easy given you cannot establish hybrid Bermuda varieties like 419 from seed. What variety of seed were you planning to try?


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

MasterMech said:


> I think the decision is real easy given you cannot establish hybrid Bermuda varieties like 419 from seed. What variety of seed were you planning to try?


I did not know that....goes to show how much I know. :thumbup:

It makes no difference because I just laid down Tift 94 or TifSport today and my back, legs are hurting. It took me all day and I got about 80-90% of it completed. I will finish tomorrow morning.

From reading about Tift 94 it seemed like a better product than Tift 419.


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

I got much more completed than the pic shows.

What do you guys think for a newbie? Not too bad?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Looks great Fishnugget!!! Looks like you also did a great job on your prep work as it already looks pretty smooth.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Looks great!


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Very nice!


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Great job!


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> Looks great Fishnugget!!! Looks like you also did a great job on your prep work as it already looks pretty smooth.


Thanks Mightquinn, it means a lot. I did put in a a lot of time in the prep work. However, I did find some low areas while setting it down but I am very happy with it. However, spending the time in the prep work made all the difference. It looks more professional.

To level the dirt I sectioned off an area using two galvanized conduit pipes and added dirt. Then I smoothed that out level with a 2x4. Sort of how they do it with the paver sand. It was tedious and tiresome but well worth the effort.


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

Ware said:


> Looks great!


Thanks Ware!


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

pennstater2005 said:


> Very nice!


Thanks! :thumbup:


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

MasterMech said:


> Great job!


Thank you MasterMech.


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

Finished! It took my about 10-14 hrs to complete. Sorry, I am slow and not used to installing sod as a day to day thing.

Here are some more pics.....

My next question is how to program my Rachio Gen2 for watering. What do you guys recommend. I was thinking of doing three 10 minute watering intervals every 4 hrs. Probably start at 8am, 12pm, and 4pm? What do you guys think?

Ive been reading it should be like this when sod is first laid down. Thanks.

Ok onto the pics.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

What are your daily temps at right now? You just want to water it enough to keep the sod moist for the next 1-2 weeks and then when it has rooted(when you can no longer easily pull a piece of sod up by hand) you can start to back off the watering. Have you applied any fertilizer recently?

Looks great and I hope you get more sun than what it shows in the pictures


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> What are your daily temps at right now? You just want to water it enough to keep the sod moist for the next 1-2 weeks and then when it has rooted(when you can no longer easily pull a piece of sod up by hand) you can start to back off the watering. Have you applied any fertilizer recently?
> 
> Looks great and I hope you get more sun than what it shows in the pictures


Right now my Temps are in the 80's. No, I have not applied any fertilizer. I thought that didn't start until after a month?

I hope so too, I did not realize but I do get a lot of shade in my back yard. I am going to pay more close attention tomorrow.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

What direction does your house face(N,S,E or W)? It is almost Winter so the sun will be pretty low in the sky this time of year, as long as it is getting 6-8 hours of sun you should be alright.

You may want to put down a complete fertilizer like 10-10-10 or even a starter fertilizer to help feed the new sod so it can lay down some good roots as you will be giving it a lot of water over the next few weeks and it will be using a lot of what is in your soil and what it came with from the sod farm.


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> What direction does your house face(N,S,E or W)? It is almost Winter so the sun will be pretty low in the sky this time of year, as long as it is getting 6-8 hours of sun you should be alright.
> 
> You may want to put down a complete fertilizer like 10-10-10 or even a starter fertilizer to help feed the new sod so it can lay down some good roots as you will be giving it a lot of water over the next few weeks and it will be using a lot of what is in your soil and what it came with from the sod farm.


The front of my house faces the South direction. Im keeping an eye on it today but here in Indio, Coachella, Palm Springs it is always sunny out here.

How do I spread the 10-10-10 fertilizer? Is by hand the best way?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

You will probably be getting some shade issues all Winter as your house will shade some of the lawn closest to the house.

I don't really recommend spreading the fertilizer by hand as you won't be nearly as accurate as you think you will be  I would just go get a Scott's hand Broadcast Spreader since you are only fertilizing a very small area.


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

Thanks for all your help Mightquinn.

I going to go today to my local hardware store "Home Depot" and pick up that 10-10-10 fertilizer and spreader.

How often should I fertilize?

Your right about the shade, I see more shade along the front area closest to my house.

Is my grass doomed in that area?

I actually planned on adding pavers to that front area to extend my concrete patio. I just did grass for now because it was a lower cost option and it gives me time to save up for all the other things I plan to do to the back yard, BBQ, Pergola, Pizza Oven etc.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Your backyard is about 500 sq/ft right? If so, put out about 2.5 lbs of the 10-10-10 over the WHOLE backyard and then do it again about 2 weeks from now. That one bag will last you quite awhile in that small of a lawn.

The lack of sun may create some issues along the side of the house but once Spring rolls around you might be alright. I have the same issue along my back fence area but it always seems to recover decently during the Summer.


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

Actually, I measured incorrectly. Its about 1500sq ft. Talk about being off.

Well its good to know there is hope . I would hate to have it die. I went out today and we have overcast. Of all the sunny days here, today is overcast :roll:

I will just triple your calculation.


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

OK it has been one week since I placed the sod down. It has not attached, I've been adjusting the sprinkler heads for proper coverage.

My question is when should I give it the first mow? I've been reading anywhere from 3-8 weeks or when it has attached. Also, I imagine I should not use a front reel mower as the HOC would be too low.

So should I use a rotary mower and cut off an inch and cut twice a week to bring it down. When can I begin to use a greens mower? Thanks. I apologize for the newbie questions.


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

I won't mow new sod until it has attached. Usually freshly laid sod is very uneven and can take many months to a full season to totally mess together. During that period you are more likely to scalp areas. So the HOC needs to be set to not scalp durning that time.


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

high leverage said:


> I won't mow new sod until it has attached. Usually freshly laid sod is very uneven and can take many months to a full season to totally mess together. During that period you are more likely to scalp areas. So the HOC needs to be set to not scalp durning that time.


So then, I wont need a reel mower to cut the grass anytime soon until after winter season?

I should mow with a rotary instead?

Let me know, thanks.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Depending on how much you will be cutting off, I would say using a reel mower would be less damaging than a rotary to new grass as it's not "sucking" the grass up and whacking it off and instead is cutting it like scissors. But I would wait until it's rooted itself to the ground before mowing at all as you want it to use all it's energy to set roots and not top growth right now.


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> Depending on how much you will be cutting off, I would say using a reel mower would be less damaging than a rotary to new grass as it's not "sucking" the grass up and whacking it off and instead is cutting it like scissors. But I would wait until it's rooted itself to the ground before mowing at all as you want it to use all it's energy to set roots and not top growth right now.


Thanks Mightyquinn, that actually makes sense. I have no problem giving it another month to cut. I had my eyes set on a John Deere 220c but when i went back, they sold it, dope! However, the sales rep is says they get them all the time and he is going to try and sell me the stores demo unit.


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

Update:

I cut my sod on for the first time on Dec. 1st. I used a honda mower for the first cut and left it about an inch tall. This past Thurs. I cut it again at 1" and I fertilized with a 10-10-10 fertilizer I bought.

My question is, where do I go from here. My lawn is not perfectly level. Their are some small dips I am itching to fill with sand.

When can I start leveling with sand?

Also, when can I start cutting lower than an inch?

I do plan to buy a used greens mower. Should I do that first before I sand level. I figure the rollers may help to even out some areas? Also, I am watering every am for 5 minutes now. Grass looks good to me.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

What are your average temps during the Winter?

I would wait to level until your grass is actively growing(having to mow more than once a week). You might be able to get away with adding some sand to the really bad parts of the lawn if you are getting some growth still, just make sure you don't cover the grass blades completely.

I wouldn't worry about going lower than 1 inch until you get a GM but once the lawn is growing good you can level at any time with or without a GM. If your sod has rooted and can't be easily pulled up by hand, you can go ahead and start backing off the daily watering and start spreading your watering days out. As you are shooting for deep and infrequent watering as much as you can, it will cause the roots to dig deeper in the soil to get to the water.


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

Thanks for replying MQ.

My average high in winter in Indio CA is 75-80F
My average low in winter is 45-60F

I think parts of my lawn are well rooted and some are not. For example the back areas (north side) is where the sun hits most and those areas seem to have rooted well. However, the front area of my backyard which gets a lot of shade right now probably needs more time to root.

The grass is growing because I mowed it in one week and got clippings.

Should I let the Rachio controller control the watering days? Right now I have it on my programmed settings (water daily at 9am for 5 min.) but I can program it to sync with the local weather station and allow it water based on the weather.

Or I could program to water for 5 minutes every other day.

My biggest peeve right now is stepping and feeling the bumps in my lawn. I feel the unevenness in certain areas and it bothers me, talk about OCD. However, I think your right, I will stick with the plan, back a little off the water and let the grass deep root itself. In the meantime I will be hunting for a GM.

One of things I've noticed about GM's is everyone says good things about the JD but I see more folks using the Toro GM's. Are they superior? Just something I noticed. Thanks for all the help MQ!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Warning, I'm a cool season guy that was bored and started reading warm season threads. The warm season guys will correct me if I'm wrong.

1) if the sod is not rooted, then you could lift and add more soil to get it more even.
2) until the sod is established, don't use the rachio smart features. Keep watering using a program. The smart features assumes established lawns (crop factor).
3) 5min seems way too short. How many inches of water do you get in 5min? In 30min?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

g-man said:


> Warning, I'm a cool season guy that was bored and started reading warm season threads. The warm season guys will correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> 1) if the sod is not rooted, then you could lift and add more soil to get it more even.
> 2) until the sod is established, don't use the rachio smart features. Keep watering using a program. The smart features assumes established lawns (crop factor).
> 3) 5min seems way too short. How many inches of water do you get in 5min? In 30min?


I agree with 1-3 above. :nod:


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

g-man said:


> Warning, I'm a cool season guy that was bored and started reading warm season threads. The warm season guys will correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> 1) if the sod is not rooted, then you could lift and add more soil to get it more even.
> 2) until the sod is established, don't use the rachio smart features. Keep watering using a program. The smart features assumes established lawns (crop factor).
> 3) 5min seems way too short. How many inches of water do you get in 5min? In 30min?


Thanks g-man.

1) I would say 90% or more has rooted. The areas where I can still lift some is the front edges where my patio ends but I do hear roots snapping when I pull.

2)I will skip the rachio smart features.

3) I was watering for 8-10 min and started to get flooding in low sports of my grass. 5-6min seems to be the sweet spot. I will have to do the water cup test and measure how many inches I get when the sprinkles are on. 30min would seem very excessive.


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

Ware said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > Warning, I'm a cool season guy that was bored and started reading warm season threads. The warm season guys will correct me if I'm wrong.
> ...


Thanks for the feedback.


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