# Reno without Roundup (For next year)



## Teelow (May 23, 2019)

Is it possible to do a reno on a lawn without roundup? The lawn is less than 5k sq.ft. I'm guessing my fiance read an article and now doesn't want to risk the big C. I'm fine with using it, but she doesn't seem to want to compromise. I'm really bummed out about it. Is there another way to do it? The lawn has never been established. I tried leveling this year, but I would like to do a full reno next year to regrade the lawn to try and get rid of how uneven the lawn is and do my first seeding. Any help would be appreciated.


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## Jgourley124 (Feb 21, 2019)

Sure, till it all up, level and plant seed. There is also other alternatives to glyphosate for grass killer, IE the DIY one is vinegar, salt, and dawn soap.

Personally I would have her read studies on glyphosate, but with anything this can be a very controversial topic. https://gmo.geneticliteracyproject.org/FAQ/is-glyphosate-roundup-dangerous/. Glyphosate is prolly the easiest and fastest way to kill off all grass.


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## mowww (Jan 16, 2018)

Finale or Cheetah Pro would provide similar results and ease of applying.


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## GrassFarmer (Sep 21, 2017)

Just use roundup and say you sprayed vinegar on it lol


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

The science doesn't support the Big C. It's a tenuous link at best, and that's for constant, repeated, high level exposure at that.

Does your fiancé drink coffee or alcohol?

I know...it's hard to convince someone who has made their mind up.


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## Teelow (May 23, 2019)

@MDJoe She rarely drinks either of those. Not for health reasons or anything like that. She doesn't want to risk it, especially for the kids. Which is why I don't want to try to fight too hard for it. I mean I would agree that it would be the exposure in great amounts that could increase the risk, but I'm not sure how to convince her without making it seem like I'm risking the health of the kids for something I want to do. Lawn work has been one of the few things I enjoy right now, and finding out I can't do the reno with roundup makes me sad because I'm not exactly good financially which is part of the reason why I'm waiting until next year. Round up would be easiest and cheapest way that I know of to start the reno next year.


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## npompei (Sep 8, 2019)

I used an Organic alternative as I'd really not like to contribute to Monsanto as they are one of the world's ugliest companies. I know people on here will say it's not a problem but if higher concentrations of something will cause you to become sick, I don't know why you'd want to knowingly use it? I have kids and a dog and am on well water. So I'd rather not spread that stuff all over my yard. Maybe small amounts here and there are one thing but my yard is 30k sq.ft. so it would take a large amount to kill it off.

This stuff worked pretty well for me - https://shop.synateksolutions.com/collections/weed-control/products/prizefighter


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

To be honest, Prizefighter looks worse than RoundUp as far as the label warnings...IJS.


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

Teelow said:


> @MDJoe She rarely drinks either of those. Not for health reasons or anything like that. She doesn't want to risk it, especially for the kids. Which is why I don't want to try to fight too hard for it. I mean I would agree that it would be the exposure in great amounts that could increase the risk, but I'm not sure how to convince her without making it seem like I'm risking the health of the kids for something I want to do. Lawn work has been one of the few things I enjoy right now, and finding out I can't do the reno with roundup makes me sad because I'm not exactly good financially which is part of the reason why I'm waiting until next year. Round up would be easiest and cheapest way that I know of to start the reno next year.


You could try smothering it, but 30k is a lot to cover to do it that way...


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

Use a sod cutter and cut away all the existing weeds and turf. Then bring in topsoil level and seed. Use tenacity at seed down. You will get pretty good results doing this as I have done this in the past. Any weeds that pop up afterwards can be handled after you get an established turf.


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

I know for a fact I can't change my wife's mind on things either, but this is still good advice for most things in life:


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

The total size of the property is irrelevant. The amount of product applied is the same per sqft.

Glyphosate is one of the most widely used chemicals in farming, so we are exposed to it everyday. Would I drink the stuff.. No. Would I roll around in it... No... But hours after applied it is safe, however I typically wait 24 hours before declaring the area sprayed safe.

If you want the highest chance of success, this is the best way to do it..


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

The biggest issue with glyphosate has to do with it ending up in your food. No bueno and it is getting worse. Skin exposure is bad, too. Crop dusters and farmers who physically deal with it in mass quantities are getting cancer at alarming rates. It will also destroy the living portion of your soil. Be sure to use soil conditioners that will restore microbial activity to the soil after using glyphosate. But be warned that since glyphosate lingers for essentially ever, you may need to regularly replenish the microbials to keep the soil balanced and healthy.

If you think you might ever have a garden, avoiding the glyphosate is a good move.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

badtlc said:


> The biggest issue with glyphosate has to do with it ending up in your food. No bueno and it is getting worse. Skin exposure is bad, too. Crop dusters and farmers who physically deal with it in mass quantities are getting cancer at alarming rates. It will also destroy the living portion of your soil. Be sure to use soil conditioners that will restore microbial activity to the soil after using glyphosate. But be warned that since glyphosate lingers for essentially ever, you may need to regularly replenish the microbials to keep the soil balanced and healthy.
> 
> If you think you might ever have a garden, avoiding the glyphosate is a good move.


Do you have sources regarding farmers getting sick at an alarming rate and it lingering in the soil forever while destroying microbes etc.


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

badtlc said:


> The biggest issue with glyphosate has to do with it ending up in your food. No bueno and it is getting worse. Skin exposure is bad, too. Crop dusters and farmers who physically deal with it in mass quantities are getting cancer at alarming rates. It will also destroy the living portion of your soil. Be sure to use soil conditioners that will restore microbial activity to the soil after using glyphosate. But be warned that since glyphosate lingers for essentially ever, you may need to regularly replenish the microbials to keep the soil balanced and healthy.
> 
> If you think you might ever have a garden, avoiding the glyphosate is a good move.


https://www.acsh.org/news/2018/10/09/if-you-accept-science-you-accept-roundup-does-not-cause-cancer-13490


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

Stuofsci02 said:


> badtlc said:
> 
> 
> > The biggest issue with glyphosate has to do with it ending up in your food. No bueno and it is getting worse. Skin exposure is bad, too. Crop dusters and farmers who physically deal with it in mass quantities are getting cancer at alarming rates. It will also destroy the living portion of your soil. Be sure to use soil conditioners that will restore microbial activity to the soil after using glyphosate. But be warned that since glyphosate lingers for essentially ever, you may need to regularly replenish the microbials to keep the soil balanced and healthy.
> ...


Google glyphosate soil persistence studies and you'll find many. There are a combination of factors leading to glyphosate persisting in soil such as over use, specific soil conditions, etc. Europe is more ahead of the USA in this research but american universities are starting to study this (I think Iowa State has a few).

Here is a starting point: https://sustainablepulse.com/2017/10/17/new-groundbreaking-research-shows-glyphosate-persists-in-soil/

Here is a link discussion recent revelation on how glyphosate impacts more than plant health include the soil and animals:
https://www.soilassociation.org/media/7202/glyphosate-and-soil-health-full-report.pdf

For the health issues, I can tell you all the crop dusters from my home area are getting cancer along with several HS friends who handle/execute machine based spraying.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

MDJoe said:


> badtlc said:
> 
> 
> > The biggest issue with glyphosate has to do with it ending up in your food. No bueno and it is getting worse. Skin exposure is bad, too. Crop dusters and farmers who physically deal with it in mass quantities are getting cancer at alarming rates. It will also destroy the living portion of your soil. Be sure to use soil conditioners that will restore microbial activity to the soil after using glyphosate. But be warned that since glyphosate lingers for essentially ever, you may need to regularly replenish the microbials to keep the soil balanced and healthy.
> ...


That article is talking about physical exposure to glyphosate and not consumption via food. There are no safety studies on the consumption of glyphosate.

The exposure studies have all been thoroughly discredited via peer reviews. There is no evidence that physical glyphosate exposure is safe. The lack of studies showing anything is the basis to say it is safe.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

I think this thread is getting off course the OP asked if a reno can be done without the use of glyphosate. The answer to this question is yes.


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

badtlc said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> > badtlc said:
> ...


I'll check out your second link. The first one is a propaganda website with no credibility.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/sustainable-pulse/


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## Rucraz2 (Apr 8, 2018)

Use a tarp. I have seen people do it. I have done it on accident. 10x50ft section killed in 26hrs on my lawn on a 90* day. Kids wanted a giant slip and slide and I couldn't get it picked up right away.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

JDgreen18 said:


> I think this thread is getting off course the OP asked if a reno can be done without the use of glyphosate. The answer to this question is yes.


Agreed. Let's please keep this topic focused on the OP question.



JDgreen18 said:


> Use a sod cutter and cut away all the existing weeds and turf. Then bring in topsoil level and seed. Use tenacity at seed down. You will get pretty good results doing this as I have done this in the past. Any weeds that pop up afterwards can be handled after you get an established turf.


I like this advice. Till it, cut it, smother it, what ever you want to do with the existing before but mesotrione(tenacity) will be you friend after seed down followed by a better pre-m a few months after seed down. That is assuming you would be ok with using these other chemicals.


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## Teelow (May 23, 2019)

Thanks for the help everyone. I appreciate all the input.


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## Factor (Oct 10, 2019)

Teelow said:


> Is it possible to do a reno on a lawn without roundup? The lawn is less than 5k sq.ft. I'm guessing my fiance read an article and now doesn't want to risk the big C. I'm fine with using it, but she doesn't seem to want to compromise. I'm really bummed out about it. Is there another way to do it? The lawn has never been established. I tried leveling this year, but I would like to do a full reno next year to regrade the lawn to try and get rid of how uneven the lawn is and do my first seeding. Any help would be appreciated.


Well what kind of grass do you have and any adjoining neighbors have? Then what do you want to have for grass? Example if you have Bermuda and to want *** or TTTF. You will have to do something. If you have *** and or TTTF and want zoysia or Bermuda. Then just seed and it will choke out as it goes.


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## Teelow (May 23, 2019)

@Factor I'm honestly not sure what grass I have. I got the house this year in April and the lawn was really let go. First time getting into lawn care. From looking I think I have a fescue mix. There was a lot of clumping fescue that I was able to spray with glyphosate before she read the article. As of now I'm planning on renovating with perennial rye grass when I do the reno. Mainly because it seems KBG needs a lot of attention to do well. I considered TTTF, but I'm not sure I like the wider blade look. I could always change my mind later. I have almost a whole year to think about it.


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## Cory (Aug 23, 2017)

Mirimichi makes a non selective organic grass killer https://mirimichigreen.com/mg_products/weed-control-concentrate/


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## Factor (Oct 10, 2019)

Ok like some have said you don't need herbicide. Technically soil, seed and water is bare minimum. It all goes uphill or down hill from there depending on how you look at it.

A good soil test is the first thing to do. If you haven't got one yet.


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