# Liquid humic acid question



## Justmatson (Apr 4, 2020)

Looking for suggestions for application rate.
I know humic comes in a wide range of percentages so I'm a bit confused about how much to use per 1000.

The bottle I just picked up doesn't have application rates for lawns... hope someone can give some advice. 
It is 24% humid acid. 1-2tsp per gallon of water?
I plan on foliar spraying this with my backpack sprayer. 
Which brings me to one more question... can I just add it when I do urea or other foliar apps?

Thanks!


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

I would look hard for the label, but if there is no info at all, 1.5-3 oz/M is about right for 24% humic. You can mix urea and humic with no problems.


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## Justmatson (Apr 4, 2020)

@CarolinaCuttin 
There is a label, I'll post it, but the rates on the label seem awfully low (I could be wrong) this is my first time getting into humic acid.
Thanks.


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

@Justmatson Unfortunately, it doesn't list the type of application you want to do (spray) but I'm basing my recommendation on the label for Greene County Fertilizer's product called Humic12 (12% humic acid). I just halved the rate since you have 24% and came up with 1.5-3 ounces. A little more or a little less wont hurt anything.


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## Justmatson (Apr 4, 2020)

@CarolinaCuttin

Much appreciated!


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

I would be skeptical of humic acid though. I haven't seen a good study proving it's effectiveness in turf. I do have some myself with a kelp blend. I spray it along with some SLS soap. IMO the kelp and the soap do more than the humic acid which I"m skeptical does anything.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

john5246 said:


> I would be skeptical of humic acid though. I haven't seen a good study proving it's effectiveness in turf. I do have some myself with a kelp blend. I spray it along with some SLS soap. IMO the kelp and the soap do more than the humic acid which I"m skeptical does anything.


Unfortunately there many studies proving the benefit. I personally have one from 4 golf corses in my province trying a 'fancy named' product which is basically Humic and Fulvic acid. It is a soil amendment and it is not a miracle pill. I don't see my retirement savings climbing every 2 hours, but certainly they will over the course of 30 years...


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

From what I've been told by people that know much more than me, humic is only beneficial when applied with other things and does next to nothing on its own. I'm pretty sure that I've wasted quite a bit of it by thow-n-r-down thinking that it was going to be beneficial to the soil when applied on its own.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Gilley11 What are the other things...that are not already in the soil...? I assume people apply Calcium when they are deficient, not because they expect an instant green up... same for anything else except of N and Fe. With this in mind I swear those are the only 2 things that actually work. On the label of any Humic containing product I have seen it is clearly written that is a PART of a complete maintenance programme. Just a small part IMO


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## Justmatson (Apr 4, 2020)

@Babameca

I agree with you. 
Ya this is my first time using it but have researched it for sometime now. My idea/goal for this use is to free up some of the tied up nutrients in my clay heavy soil. Started a reno 30 days ago and doing everything I can to help my baby kbg get well established before summer. 
It was cheap enough so I figured I'll experiment with it. I know if it wasn't that beneficial golf courses wouldn't be using it. Pretty much all the golf courses around me uses Redox. Some of their products are
humic based.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Justmatson What is interesting is that golf corses are behind on soil fertility and only now (read few years) they are catching up. I don't know the exact reason to be honest, but growing grass in sand is not cost effective for sure. Not giving enough 'food' to the micro world in the soil depletes the most genuine basics of the biochemical loop. Farmers learned that the hard way. I consider humic a 'snack' for the little folks that we can't see working hard decomposing clippings ans leaves and turning them to OM. I am not all organic at all like some Milorganite guys, but like to know my microbes are fed once in a while. Using Sustane and some local chicken manure 1-2 times a year.
Good luck with the Reno! It is behind me now. 8 months in and looks good!


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

Babameca said:


> john5246 said:
> 
> 
> > I would be skeptical of humic acid though. I haven't seen a good study proving it's effectiveness in turf. I do have some myself with a kelp blend. I spray it along with some SLS soap. IMO the kelp and the soap do more than the humic acid which I"m skeptical does anything.
> ...


Can you link to this? And I meant a good study, like from a university.


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

@Babameca golf courses use sand for water management, repairability and playing consistency.


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## alt-brian (Sep 14, 2018)

I am going to WAY oversimplify this.

Humic acid, fulvic acid, Organic Matter and biochar are all doing roughly the same thing... increasing the carbon in your soil.

Of course there are major differences between each and what form that carbon is, but it is all carbon based.

Carbon is amazing, it "grabs" hold of things on the molecular level really well. We use it to filter air and water BECAUSE it grabs hold of so many things.

Most of our lawns have less carbon than is optimal for plant growth. That is why we add OM, humic/fulvic acids and biochar.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

+1 @alt-brian It is also worth noting that Humic Acid is very end stage OM. Compost, lawn clippings, etc. are very early. They perform different function in the soil, and healthy soil probably needs both.

If you were to take an old growth midwest prairie, kill it off and plant lawn grass, that is going to have a balance of pretty much everything you might need since it has been an active, stable, ecosystem growing grasses for thousands of years, and you can almost certainly grow a phenomenal lawn on it from day one without adding anything.

If you dig a hole, build a house, and strip off the topsoil during construction, the soil ecosystem is gone. All you have is sand/silt/clay in some percentage. There is virtually no organic matter and the thousands of years nature spent building that topsoil is gone with the topsoil or mixed into such a large volume of fill that it might as well be gone, and you will need to add a lot of things to grow a phenomenal lawn on it.

If you want that healthy ecosystem back, you can either give nature a few hundred+ years to do it, or you can try to jump start the process. Organic matter will help, but it will take years (decades?/centuries?) to get the end stage components that make really healthy soil. That is where adding Humic Acid and Fulvic Acids come in (though they are only a part), or at least that is what a lot of people currently think.

Golf courses (and most sports fields) are different than lawns. One of their primary concerns is how well a ball rolls and bounces, everything becomes secondary to playability and serves to enhance that. Most of us don't care how well a ball rolls on our lawns, and if we do it still isn't usually the primary concern. It is important to remember that when we think about lawn care. Much of what golf courses do will help us, but not all of it, and some things can be downright bad for our lawns.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@john5246 I just googled a few. I have pptx from local study that is still not released so I can't share it.
https://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/tgtre/article/1999aug6.pdf
https://www.jhbiotech.com/docs/Humic-Acids-on-BentGrass.pdf
As other said, if you know you have rich organic soil under your feet, that you built over many years you are free to skip humates.


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## LawnDetail (Apr 15, 2020)

Just like anything else in life. If some people can't physically see results then it must not be working. I believe it's a beneficial part in getting your dirt right.


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## Justmatson (Apr 4, 2020)

I really appreciate all the info guys! 
Learned a lot with this information. With the fertilize I'll be using (Poultry eggshell base organic, which also contains humic and fulvic) i think ill be giving my baby grass its best chance to flourish.

Here's a couple pics I just took. Sorry its raining here, but not sorry haha. I don't know what it is with rain water but the grass just took off! 
It's day 19 since germination 30 days since seed down.


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## LawnDetail (Apr 15, 2020)

Looks like you got off to a great start


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

LawnDetail said:


> Just like anything else in life. If some people can't physically see results then it must not be working. I believe it's a beneficial part in getting your dirt right.


Then we should be able to measure it's effect through a soil test.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Justmatson said:


> I really appreciate all the info guys!
> Learned a lot with this information. With the fertilize I'll be using (Poultry eggshell base organic, which also contains humic and fulvic) i think ill be giving my baby grass its best chance to flourish.
> 
> Here's a couple pics I just took. Sorry its raining here, but not sorry haha. I don't know what it is with rain water but the grass just took off!
> It's day 19 since germination 30 days since seed down.


How tall is that grass? Have you cut it yet?


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## Justmatson (Apr 4, 2020)

@Harts 
Those pics I think were from around day 30 since seeding. 
I cut it at 2" once before day 30. Not 100% of the grass was at 2" yet. Still doing its sprout and pout thing.
I do have this narrow strip about 5' wide along my driveway and flower bed that grows insanely fast. Its weird.

Today is day 50 for me and I've cut it 4-5x keeping it at 2"

I'm thinking of lowering it a bit. Our weather is staying fairly cool and lots of rain now.
What do you think? Keep it at 2" or should I be ok to go lower?

Want it to thicken up more and encourage the roots to grow.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

I asked because the grass looked quite long in those images. It could just be poor depth perception on my part.

Is today day 50 post seed down or post germination?

What do you plan to keep the HOC at once it is established? If you've cut it that many times, you should be okay to start establishing your normal HOC.


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## Justmatson (Apr 4, 2020)

@Harts

Day 50 post seed down. 38 days post germination. 
For HOC I'm not sure yet.... being young grass and our summers can get very hot I'll probably keep it longer this year, well at least for summer. 
Just want to make sure it survives summer being a spring seeding.
This yard gets a ton of sun, especially afternoon sun.


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## occamsrzr (Apr 27, 2020)

john5246 said:


> LawnDetail said:
> 
> 
> > Just like anything else in life. If some people can't physically see results then it must not be working. I believe it's a beneficial part in getting your dirt right.
> ...


We can. It influences CECs. It influences organic matter. We can measure these via a soil test. Adding humic acids is a long-term strategy to increase both of these.

Just because you're not buying a bottle with "humic acid" doesn't mean you're not applying humic substances. Applying peat moss, compost, vermicompost, composted manure, mulching grass and leaves will all eventually end up increasing the amount of humic substances in the soil. Using mined leonardite is just a shortcut to get a very concentrated amount of humic substances.

Studies to back up the influence of humic substances on plant growth, nutrient uptake, and the ability to deal with environmental stressors:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1164556306000379
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01904169809365424
https://acsess.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.2136/sssaj1976.03615995004000060023x
http://www.harvestgrow.com/.pdf%20web%20site/Humates%20General%20Info.pdf
https://acsess.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.2136/sssaj2001.1744
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1002016010600872
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0929139316304863
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1556/0806.45.2017.064
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11099-017-0745-9
https://content.sciendo.com/view/journals/johr/25/2/article-p59.xml
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Effect-of-humic-acid-and-mulches-on-some-of-tall-Kazemi-Salahshoor/48a01ade873aea191e3e2f538f07506ed279108f
http://www.koreascience.or.kr/article/JAKO201831854885151.page
https://acsess.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.2134/cftm2018.07.0053
http://www.koreascience.or.kr/article/JAKO201730475991838.page

It's not a be-all-end-all solution but it helps your soil in the long run and ag research the world over has given examples of it being beneficial.


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## Norton (Oct 4, 2019)

So is there a consensus on, or suggestions for, the best value liquid humic to buy compared to GCF Humic12 or RGS?


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## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

Live Earth.


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## hogmaster (Dec 29, 2021)

AMLeo.com currently has a sale where shipping is free on orders of $100 or more. I just ordered two 40-lb bags of humic acid. It's a good deal.


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