# Bermuda Fertilizer and Crabgrass Advice



## joeltx (Mar 19, 2019)

Hi there,

I'm pretty frustrated at my lawn and need some expert help. In my old house, I had a lawn care service that did a nice job. In this new house, I've been trying DIY and it's utterly failing. So, one more try at DIY and I might give up and try some service.

I think I need help with
* Fertilizer selection
* Aggressive Crabgrass Control
* Clover Abatement

What I know
The lawn right now is a combination of bermudagrass, crabgrass, and clover. The bermuda has been getting thinner and thinner over the past few years and is getting taken over more and more by the crabgrass.

A LusterLeaf rapitest soil kit shows
Nitrogen Deficient (N1) 
Phosphorus Adequate (P2) 
Potash Depleted (K0) 
Ph Neutral (about 7)

They have some instructions on what those levels might mean for lawn fertilizer
http://www.lusterleaf.com/img/instruction/1601-soiltestkit_instructions.pdf
I think it is recommending a 14-0-5 mix. Hoping I read that right.

Treatments to-date
January - I put down some granular pre-emergent. That worked pretty well. Dandelions and such have been minimal
Last weekend - Sprayed Ortho Weed B Gon + Crabgrass control - the crabgrass growth has slowed but it still really strong.

Questions:
1. Is there a general commercial fertilizer I can use or do I need to go more exotic? I see some 29-0-10 products that are all weed and feed. Scotts is not compatible with Bermuda. Sta-Green is ok for Bermuda but not available in my area. The general fertilizers are have high Nitrogen (30-0-4) or mixes with too much P & K (15-5-10).
2. Suggestions for dealing with a high concentration of crabgrass. Some parts of the lawn may be 1/3 crabgrass to Bermuda.
3. If I deal with the first two, will that choke out the clover or do I need to do something else?

Thanks in advance for all of your ideas and help. 
-Joel


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## sanders4617 (Jul 9, 2018)

You've already got crabgrass growing that strongly?

I'd be interested in pictures of the lawn. I think that would give everyone a much better idea and more tailored plan of attack.


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## joeltx (Mar 19, 2019)

sanders4617 said:


> You've already got crabgrass growing that strongly?
> 
> I'd be interested in pictures of the lawn. I think that would give everyone a much better idea and more tailored plan of attack.


Sure thing. What's the best type of pictures? I've got some detailed ones but no good overview pictures. If you'd like something different, I'm happy to shoot different areas, angles, and crops.


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

joeltx said:


> sanders4617 said:
> 
> 
> > You've already got crabgrass growing that strongly?
> ...


The likelihood of having mature crabgrass in Austin right now is slim to none. What you are seeing is a winter grassy weed. Without better pics I'd guess Orchard grass or Italian rye grass.


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## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

As mentioned earlier, what you have is likely not crabgrass (doesn't look like it to me anyway). Your pre-emergent application, if done correctly, should thwart most crabgrass germination.

The Ortho Weed-B-Gon is not a one and done type product being an OTC herbicide with lower AI concentrations. It will take multiple applications, just stay on top of it. I think the label states you can respray after 6 weeks. That will take care of your clover, crabgrass, and dandelion issue along with many other broadleaf weeds.

For fertilizer, I would stay away from the weed & feed stuff since you've already put down the Weed-B-Gon. If you want something you can pick up at your local Lowe's/Home Depot/Ace/etc., grab a bag of the regular Scotts Turfbuilder or similar. You just want something with no pre or post emergent additives and low/no phosphorus given your soil analysis. If you want an organic fertilizer, Ringer Lawn Restore is a good choice for your situation. It's a 10-0-6 composition so you'll get the N and K you need with no P.


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## joeltx (Mar 19, 2019)

high leverage said:


> The likelihood of having mature crabgrass in Austin right now is slim to none. What you are seeing is a winter grassy weed. Without better pics I'd guess Orchard grass or Italian rye grass.


Oh interesting. The non-bermuda grass has a single clump with a some thick shoots at the base like a St Augustine runner (but not a runner, just a thick shoot) I assumed that was a hallmark of crabgrass. I'll take some close up pictures tonight. Whatever it is, it's growing at 2x-3x the rate of the regular lawn so it gets tall quickly.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

joeltx said:


> high leverage said:
> 
> 
> > The likelihood of having mature crabgrass in Austin right now is slim to none. What you are seeing is a winter grassy weed. Without better pics I'd guess Orchard grass or Italian rye grass.
> ...


Could be dallisgrass.


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## Copper1291 (Mar 14, 2019)

I'm no expert but that may be quackgrass. Google it and it has a very similar appearance to crabgrass and spreads due to rhizomes. From what I'm reading on a non selective of effective against it.


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## Symbiont01 (Nov 20, 2018)

I'm in Central Texas myself (Georgetown) and I definitely see some rescuegrass in those photos (and we have a shitton of it in this area). Although we cant see it in the pictures because it looks like you just cut it, the seed head is very distinctive and ID is a dead giveaway. There could also be some dallisgrass in there as well, but again without the seed head the ID is hard for me. Celsius herbicide will knock out that rescuegrass along with the other broadleaf weeds you have and prodiamine pre-emergent will help with new growth. Because rescuegrass is a cool season weed, you will want to make sure you apply pre-emergent in September to knock back recurrence next year.


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## thesouthernreelmower (Aug 28, 2018)

Do you have a siteone near by?


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## joeltx (Mar 19, 2019)

thesouthernreelmower said:


> Do you have a siteone near by?


Sorry, what is siteone?


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Pull some of the different looking ones, swallow any UT pride you may have, and go to your county extension office. They should be able to identify what you have growing.


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## joeltx (Mar 19, 2019)

Spammage said:


> Pull some of the different looking ones, swallow any UT pride you may have, and go to your county extension office. They should be able to identify what you have growing.


Haha. Ok. Good call. Thanks

Oh, and thesouthernreelmower, I did find there is a SiteOne near me


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## thesouthernreelmower (Aug 28, 2018)

They can help you out


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

joeltx said:


> Scotts is not compatible with Bermuda.


I'm not sure where this came from but plenty of Scott's products work on Bermuda. However, it's pricey for what it is, hence the suggestion to look at Lesco brand at SiteOne.

Have you read the links in the sticky at the top of the Warm season forum? Make sure and check out the Bermuda Bible. Read it five or six times.

Some of those weeds will be tough to get rid of. Stick with it, have patience, and enjoy the marathon; it's not a sprint. Welcome to TLF.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

Site One has good products and good folks to help out. Plus the give a n ice discount to vets if applicable.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

ctrav said:


> Site One has good products and good folks to help out.


Careful, lots of locations don't have helpful staff, especially if you aren't a contractor. My local SiteOne will sell guys like me the absolutely wrong fert and herbicides - I only know better because of TLF.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Spammage said:


> joeltx said:
> 
> 
> > high leverage said:
> ...


+1 this is exactly what this is, imo. I've had this in my yard since I moved in. Glyphosate has helped me tremendously. What I did is when the grass was getting ready to go dormant I sprayed three rounds of glyphosate.

Good luck


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## joeltx (Mar 19, 2019)

A couple of updates

I took 5 samples to the local ag extension and got them identified (thank you for the tip @Spammage )

Sample #1 Dalisgrass (bingo @Spammage )
Sample #2 Crabgrass
Sample #3 Rescuegrass (bingo @Symbiont01 )
Sample #4 Annual Bluegrass (Wintergrass)
Sample #5 Bermuda

Now I've got a place to start at least.

So far this year, I've got down on the lawn
* Amaze in late Jan
* Ortho Weed-B Gon spray post-emergent 2 weeks ago
* Scotts Turf Builder Southern Lawn Food 32-0-10 - Tuesday

The Texas A&M Folks Sent me their resource guide for dealing with these weeds

So... From here
#1) I've got people coming to the house in 3 weeks and the current state may make horticulturalists blanch but for this event I'll take the current state to a moonscape of dead plants from Roundup or digging them up. I'd like to save aggressive measures until mid-April
#2) In terms of urgency, it seems like the Dallisgrass is first. The rescuegrass isn't ugly and the annual bluegrass looks dormant. I'd like to at least slow/halt the progression of the Dallisgrass while formulating a plan for what to do overall. It needs to be something that doesn't kill the Bermuda in the process. The Texas A&M Doc has a bunch of suggestions that are a bit over my head.

#3) There's one section I'll post that had gone pretty bare from my brown thumb. The only green in that spot is basically Dallisgrass. Feels like it's going to require re-planting grass in some way. I'll post a picture to get advice on whether to/how to go to dirt and re-plant.

Thanks everyone. @dfw_pilot , loved your reference to a marathon and not a sprint.


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## Symbiont01 (Nov 20, 2018)

For the crabgrass use quinclorac with some methylated seed oil. I had some crabgrass last year and that mix just smoked it.

For the rescuegrass, Celsius at the high rate with methylated seed oil will smoke that too (you may need a second application on the tough mature ones). The Celsius should also suppress the poa so that it doesnt seed further. Use prodiamine as a pre-emergent to cut back on new weeds. The prodiamine apps I have done have cut back big time on new rescuegrass in my lawn as well as the poa. As for the dallisgrass, just nuke it with glyphosate and sprig in some new Bermuda.


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

How bad is the Dallisgrass infestation?

Do you like to break rules/ laws?

As many will point out there is a herbicide available that can selectively remove the Dallisgrass. However it is not labeled for use on residential lawns.


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