# Lawn TOO thick?



## gmbpilot757 (Jun 7, 2021)

Odd enough question but I have heard that your lawn can be TOO thick.

I overseeded last fall with GCI TTTF. First time I'd been able to do it since buying our house 3 years ago. I've got to say the color has not filled in the way I'd hoped. Looking at the lawn you think it's got a nice green to it. Standing overhead and looking down there seems to be a lot of brown/yellow blades mixed in. I've included some photos of what I'm pulling out. I dethatched last year before overseeding so is all stuff that has essentially died off and become somewhat of a thatch due to the lawn being too thick? All the blades pictured have been pulled/uprooted, not from a loose layer.

If you've got insight I'd appreciate it. Getting tired of seeing all this yellow/brown from above.


----------



## Factor (Oct 10, 2019)

I read a few of you other posts. 
What is the reading of your last soil test.

If you have been feeding it like you should and haven't gotten the response you think you should then. Something might be off in the soil. Like high or low PH.

Some of the first pic looks like brown patch. When was your last fungus app?


----------



## gmbpilot757 (Jun 7, 2021)

Haven't done a soil test yet. I want to do it at the beginning of the season prior to the application of the first round of fert. So planning on springtime.

I've been feeding every 6-8 weeks. It could very well be that something is off with the pH. We have pretty crummy clay soil here but have introduced quite a bit of Mac nutrients into the soil over the last 24 months.

Last app of fungus control was about 8 weeks ago before it started getting hot here in KY. It's been a dry and hot summer but now the humidity is coming back.

This hasn't been a problem the last 2 years as I've been whipping the lawn into shape. It's just been this year since I overseeded. Might just be a coincidence.


----------



## Retromower (Jan 28, 2021)

It seems to me like having a lawn that is too thick is a good problem to have. Most of us would love to have that problem.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It looks like fine fescues going brown with TTTF in there.


----------



## gmbpilot757 (Jun 7, 2021)

Retro,

I tried not coming off as a pompous arse about it being too thick  But I have read that it can be a problem. Too much grass competing can lead to some dying off. Not sure if that's what's going on here.

g-man, it's a TTTF GCI seed I overseeded with last fall. I believe the original sod is 5 yrs old and was a 80/20 TTTF/KBG mixture. Who knows what else was in the lawn when we bought the house 3 yrs ago. Seems it is some of the newer blades that have been withering away this year. No oblivious spots or rings indicating fungus.

I should note that I have been mowing this at 4.5" over the summer and over the last month have brought it down to 4.25". Been following the "higher is better" mantra this year.


----------



## 2L8 (Mar 18, 2019)

I have the same problem here and also suspect that too much competition between the grasses leads to the death of individual plants or leaves. There is either a lack of light, nutrients or water. Newly established lawns always look very good for the first six months and then dead leaves form.

I have been mowing 1/2 " lower this year to 1.5 " and fertilizing biweekly with 2.5 g/m² N (0.5 lbs/1000 ft²) and it seems to be somewhat better. But that may be because this summer is much cooler and wetter than the last few. I forgot to treat one area the same as the last few years.


----------



## jbacker7 (Jun 29, 2021)

In that first picture there are some ROUGH cuts on the blades that are green. That is only one picture, but do you need to sharpen your mower blades? May lead to an improvement in color there. Looks like it may be thirsty too.

You might try some molasses or liquid dethatching product to see if it will help eat some of that up for you until you are ready to dethatch this fall. Just make sure you have temps above 80 when you apply any dethatching product.

I'm with you though, looks like you've got some trash in there that needs to come out.


----------



## gmbpilot757 (Jun 7, 2021)

jbacker,

Thanks. New blades were put on earlier in the season. I'm thinking the rough cuts are from taking off a bit more with the last cut than I should have. I thought the same thing with the liquid de-thatcher. Planning on doing that next week when we're back up in the 90s. The lawn is irrigated and is watered 4x a week for 40 min in each of the 4 zones.


----------



## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Further to what @g-man said, in my experience if you do have fine fescue in your lawn the only way to be rid of it is a full reno. I tried overseeding for years and the fine fescue always clawed its way back and out-competed.

Hopefully it's just lawn debris. Much easier to deal with 😉


----------



## Old Hickory (Aug 19, 2019)

g-man said:


> It looks like fine fescues going brown with TTTF in there.


So the fine fescue is dormant and should return in the fall?


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Dormant or some of it dead, but like the phoenix it will be born again.


----------



## jimmythegreek (Aug 7, 2020)

You also said you water 4 times a week. Drop that to 2x weekly or every 3rd day and compensate with longer run times. 4x is too often


----------



## johnklein25 (Apr 22, 2021)

I agree that there may be some fine fescue in the lawn. I'm a little surprised no one has suggested mechanical dethatching/power raking (yes, I know the photo isn't "thatch"). A power rake would get a lot of that dead stuff out of there. 30k sq ft of lawn is a lot to dethatch tho. You'd probably get a 30 gallon can of dead stuff per 1k sq ft, making it no only a lot of sq ft to power rake, but you'll also have a lot of material to dispose of.


----------



## gmbpilot757 (Jun 7, 2021)

Thanks for the replies. @johnklein25 ,I dethatched last fall prior to aerating and overseeding. Planning on doing it again. And you are correct, it a lot of land to cover, especially when they say NOT to use more than 1 extension cord with the Sunjoe.

@jimmythegreek , I initially thought the same thing with the watering frequency. I was doing 3x a week for 40min per zone but when the heat crept up this year I felt like the grass started to struggle, so I added a day. Might back it down again. The issue we have here is the clay soil and the potential for runoff if you soak for too long.


----------



## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

gmbpilot757 said:


> @jimmythegreek , I initially thought the same thing with the watering frequency. I was doing 3x a week for 40min per zone but when the heat crept up this year I felt like the grass started to struggle, so I added a day. Might back it down again. The issue we have here is the clay soil and the potential for runoff if you soak for too long.


Have you heard about the technique where you water in stages with breaks in between to allow the water time to absorb into the soil? You can experiment with how many breaks to take and how long each one needs to be, until you find a scheme that gets your desired amount of water down without runoff/pooling


----------



## jimmythegreek (Aug 7, 2020)

I have clay too here as a sub base. I break the water up 20 min 3 zones at 5am then start over at 6am. Next day I do the 2 back zones same way. 3 day cycle between the waterings


----------



## gmbpilot757 (Jun 7, 2021)

@davegravy and @jimmythegreek , that's exactly what I do. 20 min per zone all the way through, then back through a second time at 20 per zone. Seems to work well.


----------



## Want2BS8ed (Jun 25, 2021)

FWIW (and I was kinda surprised at this as well) on silty-clay/clay, Hunter is recommending total time be divided into 8 minute increments with a 30 minute "soak" time between.

Also, and I know you don't want to hear this, but I'm going to jump on both bandwagons; you need to sharpen your blades and you have a fungal infection that should probably be addressed before fall overseeding.


----------



## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

gmbpilot757 said:


> Thanks for the replies. @johnklein25 ,I dethatched last fall prior to aerating and overseeding. Planning on doing it again. And you are correct, it a lot of land to cover, especially when they say NOT to use more than 1 extension cord with the Sunjoe.
> 
> @jimmythegreek , I initially thought the same thing with the watering frequency. I was doing 3x a week for 40min per zone but when the heat crept up this year I felt like the grass started to struggle, so I added a day. Might back it down again. The issue we have here is the clay soil and the potential for runoff if you soak for too long.


And make sure that one extension cord is the correct gauge if it's wrong it can burn out the motor


----------



## macattack (Nov 2, 2020)

Looks like my lawn, minus the nice green part. I have no irrigation. It looks great until i dig between the blades. Normal grass lifecycle of fescue. I either need to rake all that death out, or will dethatch it out of there. Think i need to bag more often, maybe every 4th mow. I mow at 4", always some clumps, unless I can mow twice as often. Not happening, who has time.


----------



## spaceman_spiff (Feb 5, 2021)

Rachio website has a good cycle and soak chart. Shows average intake rate of different soils/slopes and how long you can run different types of nozzles before you need to soak.

https://support.rachio.com/en_us/smart-cycle-and-manual-cycle-and-soak-features-r1_FwL1Kw


----------

