# 2021 Renovations Questions



## steffen707

I sprayed my 3700sf plot of 3.5" KBG with about 9 gallons of roundup concentrate on August 1st with a backpack sprayer. The bottle said 300sf per gallon, so I was close; however, today, its not all brown. It seems like the top 2.5-3" of grass blades are brown, but the rest isn't brown.

I just watched GCI's new video and he smoked his 4.5" TTTF and didn't cut it until after it was dead.

Do I just need to be patient and wait another week, or do I need to cut the grass low and then spray it again?

Did I spray it too heavy and it just "burned the blades" but it didn't get down to the roots?


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## SNOWBOB11

I would spray it again now, wait 2 days and scalp with the lowest setting on your mower. It looks like you might have missed a few areas which is fine. You'll get them on the next round.


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## steffen707

SNOWBOB11 said:


> I would spray it again now, wait 2 days and scalp with the lowest setting on your mower. It looks like you might have missed a few areas which is fine. You'll get them on the next round.


Can one spray the grass too much?


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## SNOWBOB11

steffen707 said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would spray it again now, wait 2 days and scalp with the lowest setting on your mower. It looks like you might have missed a few areas which is fine. You'll get them on the next round.
> 
> 
> 
> Can one spray the grass too much?
Click to expand...

I'm sure there is a limit to glyphosate but your not close and you need to re apply. Too much green.


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## steffen707

SNOWBOB11 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would spray it again now, wait 2 days and scalp with the lowest setting on your mower. It looks like you might have missed a few areas which is fine. You'll get them on the next round.
> 
> 
> 
> Can one spray the grass too much?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sure there is a limit to glyphosate but your not close and you need to re apply. Too much green.
Click to expand...

Ugh, just read that photosynthesis doesn't happen at night, (duh!), I sprayed the lawn at like 5pm. next time i'll do it in the morning.

Also I have water with PH OF 7.0-7.2 that I mix in my sprayer. I've been reading I should add Ammonium Sulfate to my hard water to let the glyphosate work better. can anybody tell me how much AMS to be adding per gallon of glyphosate mix?


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## lbb091919

steffen707 said:


> Ugh, just read that photosynthesis doesn't happen at night, (duh!), I sprayed the lawn at like 5pm. next time i'll do it in the morning.
> 
> Also I have water with PH OF 7.0-7.2 that I mix in my sprayer. I've been reading I should add Ammonium Sulfate to my hard water to let the glyphosate work better. can anybody tell me how much AMS to be adding per gallon of glyphosate mix?


You want 0.5lbs N per ksqft.


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## cubsfan24

Love this guide. I always revert back if I have any questions.


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## Alowan

I only have acess to Myclobutanil 0,0075% (premixed) and difenoconazol (that I Can mix myself). And generally have had to use little to no fungicide on my lawn before killing it for reno.

I cannot seem to find any info on those and seedlings. Anyone have any idea if I Can use one of those on my new reno?


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## jha4aamu

steffen707 said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can one spray the grass too much?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure there is a limit to glyphosate but your not close and you need to re apply. Too much green.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ugh, just read that photosynthesis doesn't happen at night, (duh!), I sprayed the lawn at like 5pm. next time i'll do it in the morning.
> 
> Also I have water with PH OF 7.0-7.2 that I mix in my sprayer. I've been reading I should add Ammonium Sulfate to my hard water to let the glyphosate work better. can anybody tell me how much AMS to be adding per gallon of glyphosate mix?
Click to expand...

I usually just grab a handful of AS and add it to my mix.


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## nameless

So I did a reno before reading this forum but have a question if you don't mind.

At 21 AG you say to seed bare spots that didn't take, how is the best way to protect that area during mowing do we just make sure to not roll over that area with wheels? Also if we are spoon feeding nitro is that an issue?
My first mow at 3" killed some grass with the wheel marks so I am a little wary and let the lawn get a little longer before second mow I think it is 4" now.

I seeded with PRG Pangea, it came in pretty good overall one area a little thin but the grass seems so fragile I am afraid to mow or walk on it.
One side I planted 7-21 mowed on 8-1 for pic reference. Second side plant 7-25 on right





Not sure what the tall grass looking shoot ups are but Scotts starter with weed control turned them white eventually


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## jha4aamu

nameless said:


> So I did a reno before reading this forum but have a question if you don't mind.
> 
> At 21 AG you say to seed bare spots that didn't take, how is the best way to protect that area during mowing do we just make sure to not roll over that area with wheels? Also if we are spoon feeding nitro is that an issue?
> My first mow at 3" killed some grass with the wheel marks so I am a little wary and let the lawn get a little longer before second mow I think it is 4" now.
> 
> I seeded with PRG Pangea, it came in pretty good overall one area a little thin but the grass seems so fragile I am afraid to mow or walk on it.
> One side I planted 7-23 mowed on 8-1 for pic reference. Second side plant 7-25 on right


A manual reel would be ideal for cutting areno. Usually you want to do that before it gets to 3 or 4in.


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## nameless

I have been told those tall sprouts are nutsedge


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## jha4aamu

Yep. Def looks like nutsedge


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## Chuuurles

Not sure where to post this..

I have two NON-elite seed options in stock. My plan was to seed 80% KBG 20% PRG. Living in Toronto I feel like my window for seeding KBG is closing fast, coupled with the amount of shade I have and having to wait on irrigation install (aug 18). I am now leaning towards straight up Champion GQ.









Thoughts??


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## steffen707

Do you know on average when the first frost happens in Toronto? I'm in Wisconsin and it could happen in september or november.

The PRG should germinate faster so you can get more mowings in than the KBG.


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## g-man

With KBG, it is all about risk. The longer you wait, the more you risk it taking longer to germinate, getting a washout and having to re start, getting cold earlier this year. It is just too many unknowns. So for Michigan, I would target 01Aug, for Indy 15Aug, for Louisville 01Sep, for Nashville, TN 15sep. With other grasses, you can move those days a week or two.

I seeded a shade area reno on 31Jul this year. It is 100% KBG and currently it is around 1/2in long.


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## Chuuurles

steffen707 said:


> Do you know on average when the first frost happens in Toronto? I'm in Wisconsin and it could happen in september or november.
> 
> The PRG should germinate faster so you can get more mowings in than the KBG.


its a bit random, early october to early november. This graphic has it late October.



thanks @g-man the more I think about it the more i am shying away from KBG. Kinda bummed but trying to be realistic.


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## steffen707

g-man said:


> I seeded a shade area reno on 31Jul this year. It is 100% KBG and currently it is around 1/2in long.


Ugh.....So i'm a month late....lol


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## nameless

Just a note on other reno's

I started with Scotts regular starter fertilizer hoping weeds wouldn't be an issue this late and I didn't have a lot of weeds before kill. When I saw those shoot ups about 5 days in I added Scotts starter with weed control and it killed the existing nutsedge. I added the weed control version to my second sow which was 4 days later and I didn't get nutsedge on that side so either that side didn't get them or the weed control stopped them. Bottom line it works!
Is there a reason not to use starter fertilizer with weed control in spring or even year round?

This is pic after adding starter with weed control (I think it is pre emergent) after they were a few inches tall, not sure what the round leaf is in picture but looks like the leaves of a shrub I removed and planted over the area with grass.


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## rhart

My question is how much dead matter do I need to get rid of before seeding? I know the more the better, but do I need to get rid of all of it? I started with glyphosate 4 weeks ago and have done 3 rounds and have scalped with the rotary and bagged. I have also used the dethatcher in two different directions. There is still quite a bit of dead matter. I know many people bring in topsoil to level etc. My area is flat already so no issues there. Thanks for any help.


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## davegravy

That's probably enough. How low did you scalp it? Can you go lower? I see some green in there, consider another gly app.


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## steffen707

rhart said:


> My question is how much dead matter do I need to get rid of before seeding? I know the more the better, but do I need to get rid of all of it? I started with glyphosate 4 weeks ago and have done 3 rounds and have scalped with the rotary and bagged. I have also used the dethatcher in two different directions. There is still quite a bit of dead matter. I know many people bring in topsoil to level etc. My area is flat already so no issues there. Thanks for any help.


Burn it! That's what I'm gunna try.


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## rhart

davegravy said:


> That's probably enough. How low did you scalp it? Can you go lower? I see some green in there, consider another gly app.


I went down as low as my rotary mower would go. I plan on one more round of gly on Sat then seed on Sunday.


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## g-man

It is probably enough, but can likely go lower with the mower.

Be careful with burn it! Get a fire permit. The conversation with your home insurance (and the significant other) will be interesting if you damage the house.


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## davegravy

g-man said:


> It is probably enough, but can likely go lower with the mower.
> 
> Be careful with burn it! Get a fire permit. The conversation with your home insurance (and the significant other) will be interesting if you damage the house.


Also the health effects of inhaling combusted glyphosate may not have been very thoroughly studied.


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## Duxwig

Re: scalping and normal rotary mowers.
As a ghetto man's low scalp: Say your mower goes to 1". Is that fine? What about taking the weed wacker to chop it further, mow/bag, and head from there?


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## steffen707

davegravy said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is probably enough, but can likely go lower with the mower.
> 
> Be careful with burn it! Get a fire permit. The conversation with your home insurance (and the significant other) will be interesting if you damage the house.
> 
> 
> 
> Also the health effects of inhaling combusted glyphosate may not have been very thoroughly studied.
Click to expand...




g-man said:


> It is probably enough, but can likely go lower with the mower.
> 
> Be careful with burn it! Get a fire permit. The conversation with your home insurance (and the significant other) will be interesting if you damage the house.


Both good thoughts. There is more to it than simply lighting a match. Thanks for elaborating.


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## 86halibut

rhart said:


> My question is how much dead matter do I need to get rid of before seeding? I know the more the better, but do I need to get rid of all of it? I started with glyphosate 4 weeks ago and have done 3 rounds and have scalped with the rotary and bagged. I have also used the dethatcher in two different directions. There is still quite a bit of dead matter. I know many people bring in topsoil to level etc. My area is flat already so no issues there. Thanks for any help.


Is there a spongy thatch layer on top or are you down to bare soil?


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## rhart

86halibut said:


> rhart said:
> 
> 
> 
> My question is how much dead matter do I need to get rid of before seeding? I know the more the better, but do I need to get rid of all of it? I started with glyphosate 4 weeks ago and have done 3 rounds and have scalped with the rotary and bagged. I have also used the dethatcher in two different directions. There is still quite a bit of dead matter. I know many people bring in topsoil to level etc. My area is flat already so no issues there. Thanks for any help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a spongy thatch layer on top or are you down to bare soil?
Click to expand...

No there is no spongy thatch layer...I will scalp it one more time tomorrow and then run the dethatcher over it a few more times. The burning was not in the equation for me.


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## steffen707

I was told I should spray some tackifier to the seed/peat moss on my slopes.
The local reinders has this stuff, https://www.reinders.com/products/spectac-4-10/ but I have no idea if I can simply mix this in a backpack sprayer. The label and website make it sound like you need one of those big hydraulic spray seeders for this.

Can I just mix this stuff at the right amount in a backpack sprayer without gumming anything up?

Do you put the seed/peat moss down first then spray?

The label says 40 lbs per 1000 gallons per acre.

1000 gallons per acre equates to 2.29 gallons / 1000sf.
EDIT: 22.9 Gallons per 1000sf........

And if 40 lbs covers 43,560 square feet. Then would I take 40 lbs / 43.560 (1000 sf units) = 0.9183lbs of tackifier per 1000sf?

So mix 0.9183lbs tackifier to 22.9 gallons of water per 1000sf? That's going to suck.

So a 4 gallon backpack sprayer would use 1/5.725 of the gallons needed for 1000sf, so 4 gallons would cover 174.67SF, using 0.1604lbs of material.

So if I did this right its 0.1604 lbs of tackifier per 4 gallons would cover 174.67 SF. Too bad I have to buy 10 lbs of it...

is my math right? If it is, this would be a good story problem for a senior high math class. "THIS kids, is why you need to learn math! So that you can spray tackifier down on your lawn renovation project when you're 38, have 2 kids, a dog, a wife, and a lawn you love dearly........"


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## steffen707

steffen707 said:


> I was told I should spray some tackifier to the seed/peat moss on my slopes.
> The local reinders has this stuff, https://www.reinders.com/products/spectac-4-10/ but I have no idea if I can simply mix this in a backpack sprayer. The label and website make it sound like you need one of those big hydraulic spray seeders for this.
> 
> Can I just mix this stuff at the right amount in a backpack sprayer without gumming anything up?
> 
> Do you put the seed/peat moss down first then spray?
> 
> The label says 40 lbs per 1000 gallons per acre.
> 
> 1000 gallons per acre equates to 2.29 gallons / 1000sf.
> 
> And if 40 lbs covers 43,560 square feet. Then would I take 40 lbs / 43.560 (1000 sf units) = 0.9183lbs of tackifier per 1000sf?
> 
> So mix 0.9183lbs tackifier to 2.29 gallons of water per 1000sf?
> 
> is my math right? If it is, this would be a good story problem for a senior high math class. "THIS kids, is why you need to learn math! So that you can spray tackifier down on your lawn renovation project when you're 38, have 2 kids, a dog, a wife, and a lawn you love dearly........"


I did it right! i'm a fricken genious!



This handy chart is from here, https://www.fssystem.com/Portals/0/Conversion%20tables%20for%20web.pdf


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## steffen707

Grass Daddy suggested spraying the tackifier over the peatmoss. I'll give this a shot with a cheap sprayer and hope for the best I guess, unless anybody else chimes in before I put seed down.

Or do i use my 12 gallon chapin electric and risk gumming up the pump?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDLT5Tx_TvM


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## steffen707

does anybody have experience with backpack spraying "tackifier" after a renovation? will it gum up the sprayer?


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## SweLawn

Now its time for seedown (my second reno) for my kbg reno, i have fallowed the steps in the renovationguide. I have some questions about tankmixing:
Can i mix tenacity and roundup?

In my last reno i had a really big problem with grubs and other soil insects (birds digging), i dont want this to happend again. 
Can i mix pyrinex (chlorpyrifos) with roundup and tenacity?

Is chlorpyrifos safe on grasseeds?


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## nameless

I am no expert but the seed needs to reach the soil and it looks like you have material blocking that from happening in some areas in lower right of picture


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## steffen707

after I rake my seed in, should I spray the tenacity before or after putting peat moss over the seed?


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## steffen707

steffen707 said:


> I sprayed my 3700sf plot of 3.5" KBG with about 9 gallons of roundup concentrate on August 1st with a backpack sprayer. The bottle said 300sf per gallon, so I was close; however, today, its not all brown. It seems like the top 2.5-3" of grass blades are brown, but the rest isn't brown.


in case others are doing renos now too, just wanted to share, days 9-14 the grass really browned up.
ALSO, i used blue dye for round 1 and 2. I won't use dye in round 2 again, because it made everything blue/green and I feel like it wont look brown for 10-14 days from 2nd application, will make identifying what's still green and growing more difficult.


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## SweLawn

Seeddown 2 dags ago (kbg midnight mono), (new topsoil, leveling, tenacity, etc). Next week off from work just to water and monitoring soil moistr....
And today the RAIN from hell :  seeds floting around)
(Acording to the wether forecast this rain should not come... but it did)

So what should i do now? Try so reseed areas/spots were seeds are gone or should i make a reseed of the total area?
A new 4oz blanket of tenacity?


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## g-man

Do you have pictures? For sure no more tenacity.


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## SweLawn

Got home from work now...... its a total disaster... at least half of the top soil and seed are out on the Street. I dont know what to do.

I bought the seeds from USA, almost a month delivery time, it will be too late to seed all over again if i order now. I have maybe 2 pounds left.

I have started to collect all the soil with much seed in it, I will spred it out on the floor I the greenhouse for 2 days (it will rain for 24h more), then try to spred the soil (with much seed in) again.

Area is a out 2200sqf

If you have any advice for me so tell me. :roll:
Got topsoil/mud/seeds in the basment/garage also, (second picture to the right ), stop in the drainage outside garage.


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## steffen707

I need advice. Do I need to scrape up all of this stuff? it looks kinda like this "flap" is the thatch layer? I imagine that if I used a sod cutter it would cut just below this floppy layer.



My gut tells me no, because I haven't heard of many people using a sod cutter. I'm thinking i just need to cut as much of the grass out and then rough up this dirt/thatch stuff and seed into that?


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## davegravy

steffen707 said:


> I need advice. Do I need to scrape up all of this stuff? it looks kinda like this "flap" is the thatch layer? I imagine that if I used a sod cutter it would cut just below this floppy layer.
> 
> 
> 
> My gut tells me no, because I haven't heard of many people using a sod cutter. I'm thinking i just need to cut as much of the grass out and then rough up this dirt/thatch stuff and seed into that?


Don't sod cut it, the old roots help hold the soil structure together and prevent erosion. Scarify if you can (with for example the sun joe scarifier) then seed into the grooves it leaves.


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## JerseyGreens

I'm glad to come across this thread during my morning coffee...we had a very similar one last year for the 2020 reno-ers...lots of camaraderie and friendship happened there.

@steffen707 - leave all of that there it will help hold the seed down. You just have to scratch the soil surface before throwing seed.


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## JerseyGreens

SweLawn said:


> Got home from work now...... its a total disaster... at least half of the top soil and seed are out on the Street. I dont know what to do.
> 
> I bought the seeds from USA, almost a month delivery time, it will be too late to seed all over again if i order now. I have maybe 2 pounds left.
> 
> I have started to collect all the soil with much seed in it, I will spred it out on the floor I the greenhouse for 2 days (it will rain for 24h more), then try to spred the soil (with much seed in) again.
> 
> Area is a out 2200sqf
> 
> If you have any advice for me so tell me. :roll:
> Got topsoil/mud/seeds in the basment/garage also, (second picture to the right ), stop in the drainage outside garage.


Take a very deep breath sir...

Questions (I ask a lot - apologies if you have a journal already):
How many days ago did you get seed down?
What kind of grass are you trying to grow - Kentucky Blue, Rye, Fescue?
Did you do a real good job of rolling in the seed into the scratched topsoil?

In regards to all of the washout soil/seed you collected. I had wheelbarrows of stuff as well but just took a shovel and threw the stuff back onto the yard. Not sure if letting it dry is a good idea as the seeds will die in the greenhouse (if its warm).


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## steffen707

JerseyGreens said:


> I'm glad to come across this thread during my morning coffee...we had a very similar one last year for the 2020 reno-ers...lots of camaraderie and friendship happened there.
> 
> @steffen707 - leave all of that there it will help hold the seed down. You just have to scratch the soil surface before throwing seed.


Lmao. So hacking the soil surface isn't necessary?

Tips for my next reno.


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## steffen707

I discovered I had a very soft area in my lawn today and created a big divot/hole. I plan to just fill this in with soil and seed over it, but am I missing something? Will this sink hole just happen again? I discovered my neighbors sprinkler hammers this area. Is this type of thing from way too much water? Any other things I should know?

Thanks,


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## JerseyGreens

steffen707 said:


> I discovered I had a very soft area in my lawn today and created a big divot/hole. I plan to just fill this in with soil and seed over it, but am I missing something? Will this sink hole just happen again? I discovered my neighbors sprinkler hammers this area. Is this type of thing from way too much water? Any other things I should know?
> 
> Thanks,


Tell your neighbor to fix that sprinkler head!
No you aren't missing anything. Sinkhole won't happen again as long as you compress the new soil into the existing very well.


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## Lawn Noob

steffen707 said:


> I discovered I had a very soft area in my lawn today and created a big divot/hole. I plan to just fill this in with soil and seed over it, but am I missing something? Will this sink hole just happen again? I discovered my neighbors sprinkler hammers this area. Is this type of thing from way too much water? Any other things I should know?
> 
> Thanks,


Is there a swale between you and the neighbor? At my place there is a swale between us that runs the water out from between the houses to the street. That area is often mushy. I just stay off it on rainy days. There really little to be done about it unless we were both willing to route rain leaders elsewhere.


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## steffen707

I'm almost filled in the area then I'll roll it, also asking him to turn that zone off for three weeks and then I'm offering to move his sprinkler heads because he's not Uber handy.


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## lbb091919

JerseyGreens said:


> I'm glad to come across this thread during my morning coffee...we had a very similar one last year for the 2020 reno-ers...lots of camaraderie and friendship happened there.
> 
> @steffen707 - leave all of that there it will help hold the seed down. You just have to scratch the soil surface before throwing seed.


I remember that thread. This year's group of renos has been very fun to follow along with too. Glad to be a part of it.


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## shadowlawnjutsu

I'm following along this year's reno group. It's always fun to watch renos. It's the most exciting part of lawncare. Good luck to the 2021 reno-ers!


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## steffen707

After a 15.5 hour day.....its mostly in mother natures hands now.
Finished spreading soil, leveling, rolling out a huge mud pit.
Scarified in 2 directions at 45deg angles so they don't look straight from the road.
seeded with like 6 passes, raked in, rolled, tenacity
Rolled peat moss down, then tried spreading tackifier from Reinders. It was the consistency of baking soda.
Mostly went down well, but some parts were clumpy, not sure how it'll affect the germination.....
watered it in, then plug aerated the rest of the yard, almost in the dark.
returned my dad's trailer, loaded up the aerator then took the most fabulous shower. lol
I Forgot to take a final photo, but this landzie peatmoss spreader was by far the easiest part of today.


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## steffen707

How long do you guys run your sprinklers to keep seeds moist?

The guide has times, but not duration 8am, 11am, 2pm, 5pm maybe 9pm.

I know my location, temp, humidity, wind, ect. will dictate things, but what's a good starting duration, 5 minutes?


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## Niqjones

Hey guys, I'm in the central valley/northern California area and I'm getting ready to seed my GCI Cool Blue seed. I have my irrigation system complete, leveling done and ready to go! My plan was to seed Labor day weekend, but I'm wondering if it will still be too hot? How important is it to be in the 60°-75° range, or do I just need to water it more frequently? Thanks for the help.


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## Alowan

Anyone who Can check my math - I am a bit unsure if I am doing it right.

I need to Apply a small amount og N as Per the reno guide.

0,2lb N/sqft

I have 250sqft. So I need to Apply 0,2/4 Lb N

So 0,05 lb N. 
I am using 25-0-0 AMS. So 25% of it are N. 
So I need to use 0,2 lb of my AMS product.

Are this correct? Might be confused bt the same Numbers popping up so much and just wants to be sure. Thanks in advance.


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## cubsfan24

I always like following along on renovation blogs. I almost did one last year, but instead just glypho'ed a few spots, and I'm glad that's what I ended up doing instead. Good luck OP!


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## steffen707

cubsfan24 said:


> I always like following along on renovation blogs. I almost did one last year, but instead just glypho'ed a few spots, and I'm glad that's what I ended up doing instead. Good luck OP!


Every step of the way, I was like "wtf am I doing?". Neighbors think I'm nuts cuz my turf is already the best on the street.

My wife just keeps shaking her head.

In my heart I know it'll work out, but in my mind I keep thinking, can't turn back now. Glyph being first step has its advantages.

What other choice do you have? :lol:
Early morning photo. Tackifier looks like a disease. Should have seen me walking around yesterday holding a small plastic bag of whitish powder with a respirator on, grabbing handfuls of said powder and sprinkling it on the lawn like I'm a mad scientist. If my neighbors don't think I'm crazy now I'm in the clear.


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## Marzbar

steffen707 said:


> cubsfan24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always like following along on renovation blogs. I almost did one last year, but instead just glypho'ed a few spots, and I'm glad that's what I ended up doing instead. Good luck OP!
> 
> 
> 
> Every step of the way, I was like "wtf am I doing?". Neighbors think I'm nuts cuz my turf is already the best on the street.
> 
> My wife just keeps shaking her head.
> 
> In my heart I know it'll work out, but in my mind I keep thinking, can't turn back now. Glyph being first step has its advantages.
> 
> What other choice do you have? :lol:
> Early morning photo. Tackifier looks like a disease. Should have seen me walking around yesterday holding a small plastic bag of whitish powder with a respirator on, grabbing handfuls of said powder and sprinkling it on the lawn like I'm a mad scientist. If my neighbors don't think I'm crazy now I'm in the clear.
Click to expand...

I hear you man. My wife keeps asking me why I don't just get someone to take out the old grass and put in sod. I'm starting to think she's right. Here's what my reno looks like. I'm waiting for some clear weather for seeding.


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## SweLawn

JerseyGreens said:


> SweLawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got home from work now...... its a total disaster... at least half of the top soil and seed are out on the Street. I dont know what to do.
> 
> I bought the seeds from USA, almost a month delivery time, it will be too late to seed all over again if i order now. I have maybe 2 pounds left.
> 
> I have started to collect all the soil with much seed in it, I will spred it out on the floor I the greenhouse for 2 days (it will rain for 24h more), then try to spred the soil (with much seed in) again.
> 
> Area is a out 2200sqf
> 
> If you have any advice for me so tell me. :roll:
> Got topsoil/mud/seeds in the basment/garage also, (second picture to the right ), stop in the drainage outside garage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take a very deep breath sir...
> 
> Questions (I ask a lot - apologies if you have a journal already):
> How many days ago did you get seed down?
> What kind of grass are you trying to grow - Kentucky Blue, Rye, Fescue?
> Did you do a real good job of rolling in the seed into the scratched topsoil?
> 
> In regards to all of the washout soil/seed you collected. I had wheelbarrows of stuff as well but just took a shovel and threw the stuff back onto the yard. Not sure if letting it dry is a good idea as the seeds will die in the greenhouse (if its warm).
Click to expand...

Pictures 2 days from seeddown.
Kbg, midnight.
I used the roller alot.
The greenhouse is not warm, just put the seed/soil there to "protect" it from the heavy rainfall.

The seed/soil are now back on the "lawn" , I have seen some seeds germineting, I orderd new seeds that will arrive on friday (fedex express delivery). No heavy rain in the forecast, first frost here (average) around october 10.
Question: Should I use the roller to make soilcontact for "new" seeds or should I try to water in them? (Will the roller damage the newly germinated seeds?)


----------



## spaceman_spiff

rhart said:


> My question is how much dead matter do I need to get rid of before seeding? I know the more the better, but do I need to get rid of all of it? I started with glyphosate 4 weeks ago and have done 3 rounds and have scalped with the rotary and bagged. I have also used the dethatcher in two different directions. There is still quite a bit of dead matter. I know many people bring in topsoil to level etc. My area is flat already so no issues there. Thanks for any help.


Yeah, I have the exact same question. Lawn newbie here as of this spring. I would love to nuke my turf salad front yard (TTTF, PRG, FF, maybe KBG?) next year and have been trying to follow this to get as much info.

Leaving the roots would keep the top soil in tact and prevent erosion, but what happens to the dead blades of grass? Do they just become thatch over time? Would it prevent new seed from growing in thick?


----------



## JerseyGreens

SweLawn said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SweLawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got home from work now...... its a total disaster... at least half of the top soil and seed are out on the Street. I dont know what to do.
> 
> I bought the seeds from USA, almost a month delivery time, it will be too late to seed all over again if i order now. I have maybe 2 pounds left.
> 
> I have started to collect all the soil with much seed in it, I will spred it out on the floor I the greenhouse for 2 days (it will rain for 24h more), then try to spred the soil (with much seed in) again.
> 
> Area is a out 2200sqf
> 
> If you have any advice for me so tell me. :roll:
> Got topsoil/mud/seeds in the basment/garage also, (second picture to the right ), stop in the drainage outside garage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take a very deep breath sir...
> 
> Questions (I ask a lot - apologies if you have a journal already):
> How many days ago did you get seed down?
> What kind of grass are you trying to grow - Kentucky Blue, Rye, Fescue?
> Did you do a real good job of rolling in the seed into the scratched topsoil?
> 
> In regards to all of the washout soil/seed you collected. I had wheelbarrows of stuff as well but just took a shovel and threw the stuff back onto the yard. Not sure if letting it dry is a good idea as the seeds will die in the greenhouse (if its warm).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pictures 2 days from seeddown.
> Kbg, midnight.
> I used the roller alot.
> The greenhouse is not warm, just put the seed/soil there to "protect" it from the heavy rainfall.
> 
> The seed/soil are now back on the "lawn" , I have seen some seeds germineting, I orderd new seeds that will arrive on friday (fedex express delivery). No heavy rain in the forecast, first frost here (average) around october 10.
> Question: Should I use the roller to make soilcontact for "new" seeds or should I try to water in them? (Will the roller damage the newly germinated seeds?)
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have this under control. 
No need to roll new seeds in just hand throw and walk on them.


----------



## steffen707

spaceman_spiff said:


> rhart said:
> 
> 
> 
> My question is how much dead matter do I need to get rid of before seeding? I know the more the better, but do I need to get rid of all of it? I started with glyphosate 4 weeks ago and have done 3 rounds and have scalped with the rotary and bagged. I have also used the dethatcher in two different directions. There is still quite a bit of dead matter. I know many people bring in topsoil to level etc. My area is flat already so no issues there. Thanks for any help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have the exact same question. Lawn newbie here as of this spring. I would love to nuke my turf salad front yard (TTTF, PRG, FF, maybe KBG?) next year and have been trying to follow this to get as much info.
> 
> Leaving the roots would keep the top soil in tact and prevent erosion, but what happens to the dead blades of grass? Do they just become thatch over time? Would it prevent new seed from growing in thick?
Click to expand...

Good question!

One piece of advice, start the killing of lawn 3-4 weeks before you think you should. You can always sit and look at dirt for a few weeks then seed down at the most oportune time. You can't ever go back and give yourself more time.
This is especially true if you're going to be adding any soil. You're supposed to let the soil sit so weed seeds can germinate, I think this is called "fallowing". I was under the gun and just threw down the seed yesterday and hope the tenacity stops any weeds from germinating, but its not ideal.

Also if you are going to do any soil fixing/adding, make sure you have your drag on hand. Don't order it last minute, cuz then when it doesn't show up, you have to do it all by hand. ASK ME HOW I KNOW.... lol

Have a backup plan, a landscape rake or a level lawn. I bought a 48" R&R one, it was AMAZING!!! I would have been up shits creek without a rake if I didn't have that.

Best money spent in order. Sun Joe dethatch/scarifier, R&R level lawn, landzie peatmoss roller, scotts drop spreader.
lol, I think i just rattled off $600 of tools. you sure you want to do this?


----------



## spaceman_spiff

steffen707 said:


> spaceman_spiff said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhart said:
> 
> 
> 
> My question is how much dead matter do I need to get rid of before seeding? I know the more the better, but do I need to get rid of all of it? I started with glyphosate 4 weeks ago and have done 3 rounds and have scalped with the rotary and bagged. I have also used the dethatcher in two different directions. There is still quite a bit of dead matter. I know many people bring in topsoil to level etc. My area is flat already so no issues there. Thanks for any help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have the exact same question. Lawn newbie here as of this spring. I would love to nuke my turf salad front yard (TTTF, PRG, FF, maybe KBG?) next year and have been trying to follow this to get as much info.
> 
> Leaving the roots would keep the top soil in tact and prevent erosion, but what happens to the dead blades of grass? Do they just become thatch over time? Would it prevent new seed from growing in thick?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question!
> 
> One piece of advice, start the killing of lawn 3-4 weeks before you think you should. You can always sit and look at dirt for a few weeks then seed down at the most oportune time. You can't ever go back and give yourself more time.
> This is especially true if you're going to be adding any soil. You're supposed to let the soil sit so weed seeds can germinate, I think this is called "fallowing". I was under the gun and just threw down the seed yesterday and hope the tenacity stops any weeds from germinating, but its not ideal.
> 
> Also if you are going to do any soil fixing/adding, make sure you have your drag on hand. Don't order it last minute, cuz then when it doesn't show up, you have to do it all by hand. ASK ME HOW I KNOW.... lol
> 
> Have a backup plan, a landscape rake or a level lawn. I bought a 48" R&R one, it was AMAZING!!! I would have been up s--- creek without a rake if I didn't have that.
> 
> Best money spent in order. Sun Joe dethatch/scarifier, R&R level lawn, landzie peatmoss roller, scotts drop spreader.
> lol, I think i just rattled off $600 of tools. you sure you want to do this?
Click to expand...

Thanks!

And of those $600 in tools, I think I already have all of them except the peatmoss roller. I kind of went nuts when I moved into this house last year and started reading these forums. You guys put a hurting on my wallet already, haha.

I think my biggest concern would be getting a nastygram from my HOA for having a dirt lawn for a 4-6 weeks. And also explaining to my wife why I want to kill our grass :lol:


----------



## steffen707

spaceman_spiff said:


> Thanks!
> 
> And of those $600 in tools, I think I already have all of them except the peatmoss roller. I kind of went nuts when I moved into this house last year and started reading these forums. You guys put a hurting on my wallet already, haha.
> 
> I think my biggest concern would be getting a nastygram from my HOA for having a dirt lawn for a 4-6 weeks. And also explaining to my wife why I want to kill our grass :lol:


Eh, tell the HOA you're making it better. I'm on my first reno this year and i've never used peatmoss before, only straw, or EZ straw, but I can attest the peatmoss roller is awesome because it mostly spreads evenly.

WAY WAY WAY better than I could ever rake peatmoss or spread by hand. Also I wouldn't want to rake the peatmoss over the seed anyway after I rolled the seed in. Probably not an issue if you're careful but at hour 13 of my long sunday reno, I was just in "I NEED TO GET THIS SH*T DOWN" mode, not at all in a careful mood, lol. :lol:

Oh, also being able to judge the amount of mositure on the soil with the darkness of the peatmoss is nice. with the straw, i had no idea how wet it was.


----------



## zAmbitionz

Im a little late, but am also in the middle of a renovation. 
It took me 3 rounds of glyphosate to kill my yard. 2 full sprays and 1 spot spray of some shady low stress areas.


----------



## lbb091919

zAmbitionz said:


> Im a little late, but am also in the middle of a renovation.
> It took me 3 rounds of glyphosate to kill my yard. 2 full sprays and 1 spot spray of some shady low stress areas.


Same here. Some of the fescue scattered about was very resilient


----------



## steffen707

lbb091919 said:


> zAmbitionz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im a little late, but am also in the middle of a renovation.
> It took me 3 rounds of glyphosate to kill my yard. 2 full sprays and 1 spot spray of some shady low stress areas.
> 
> 
> 
> Same here. Some of the fescue scattered about was very resilient
Click to expand...

#1 mistake I made is not giving myself enough time this year. Going to glyph a month earlier next time to make sure all grass/weeds died, and any new grass/weeds from soil addition has plenty of time to grow/die


----------



## whitetrash paradise

I was 2 days after seed down and we got an unexpected thunderstorm.

In the middle part where the washout happened, I put down Scotts Lawn Soil to help fill in a trench that ran down the parkway.

When I look at the washout areas, i can still see a few seeds here and there. Should I put some more seed down or wait until germination starts and see how things are?

Seed is 365SS.


----------



## steffen707

The reno guide says "14 days after germination (DAG) - Apply a fast nitrogen source (eg. urea, AMS) at a low rate (0.2lb of N/ksqft)."
is it safe to assume, this can be applied with a rotary spreader? and one sound just be careful and walk lightly, then get off the young grass?
I think i asked this before, but don't know if I got an answer. are the Days after Germination from the first seed that sprouts, from when "most of them have sprouted"? When the last has sprouted?

Much thanks..


----------



## steffen707

I posted this 5 days ago, does anybody know the answer to this? @jskierko @g-man @bf7 @Liquidstone 
The reno guide says "14 days after germination (DAG) - Apply a fast nitrogen source (eg. urea, AMS) at a low rate (0.2lb of N/ksqft)."

I think i asked this before, but don't know if I got an answer. are the Days after Germination from the first seed that sprouts, from when "most of them have sprouted"? When the last has sprouted?

Much thanks..


----------



## Liquidstone

steffen707 said:


> I posted this 5 days ago, does anybody know the answer to this? @jskierko @g-man @bf7 @Liquidstone
> The reno guide says "14 days after germination (DAG) - Apply a fast nitrogen source (eg. urea, AMS) at a low rate (0.2lb of N/ksqft)."
> 
> I think i asked this before, but don't know if I got an answer. are the Days after Germination from the first seed that sprouts, from when "most of them have sprouted"? When the last has sprouted?
> 
> Much thanks..


I wouldn't get too technical with it. It's certainly different with a mix of say PRG and KBG but your makeup is all KBG. I know you had washout which makes things tougher. Since you dropped more seed, I would wait until you see sufficient germination on that and go from there.


----------



## g-man

Did you counted how many seeds you dropped? If so, then go count how many leaves you see germinated. Do this everyday. Divide the total germinated over the total applied. If it is greater than 76.7% and you are past a full moon, then count that day as your germination one. Otherwise wait a day. If you get a blue moon, subtract 2 days.

It doesn't matter. Just pick a day when most of the grass / areas look to have germination. The important thing is to track your herbicide applications from that general day and not from seed down day.


----------



## steffen707

g-man said:


> Did you counted how many seeds you dropped? If so, then go count how many leaves you see germinated. Do this everyday. Divide the total germinated over the total applied. If it is greater than 76.7% and you are past a full moon, then count that day as your germination one. Otherwise wait a day. If you get a blue moon, subtract 2 days.
> 
> It doesn't matter. Just pick a day when most of the grass / areas look to have germination. The important thing is to track your herbicide applications from that general day and not from seed down day.


Crap, we had a blood moon, not a blue moon, what then? :mrgreen:

Sounds good, that's what I figured, but wanted to double check.


----------



## g-man

Add 2.5 days


----------



## JerseyGreens

&#129315;


----------



## lbb091919

g-man said:


> Did you counted how many seeds you dropped? If so, then go count how many leaves you see germinated. Do this everyday. Divide the total germinated over the total applied. If it is greater than 76.7% and you are past a full moon, then count that day as your germination one. Otherwise wait a day. If you get a blue moon, subtract 2 days.


This sounds like me trying to explain anything lawncare related to my wife


----------



## JerseyGreens

lbb091919 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you counted how many seeds you dropped? If so, then go count how many leaves you see germinated. Do this everyday. Divide the total germinated over the total applied. If it is greater than 76.7% and you are past a full moon, then count that day as your germination one. Otherwise wait a day. If you get a blue moon, subtract 2 days.
> 
> 
> 
> This sounds like me trying to explain anything lawncare related to my wife
Click to expand...

I've come to realize that there are a lot of smart people on these forums - many of them engineers!!


----------



## davegravy

JerseyGreens said:


> lbb091919 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you counted how many seeds you dropped? If so, then go count how many leaves you see germinated. Do this everyday. Divide the total germinated over the total applied. If it is greater than 76.7% and you are past a full moon, then count that day as your germination one. Otherwise wait a day. If you get a blue moon, subtract 2 days.
> 
> 
> 
> This sounds like me trying to explain anything lawncare related to my wife
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've come to realize that there are a lot of smart people on these forums - many of them engineers!!
Click to expand...

That's what this all books down to... Ecological engineering 😉


----------



## Jeff_MI84

How many days before aerating and putting seed down do you scalp the lawn?


----------



## lbb091919

I scalped 10 days before aerating.


----------



## Jeff_MI84

lbb091919 said:


> I scalped 10 days before aerating.


I didn't know it was good to do it that long before. So in between scalping and seed down, do you stop watering or do it at a bare minimum?


----------



## bf7

steffen707 said:


> I posted this 5 days ago, does anybody know the answer to this? @jskierko @g-man @bf7 @Liquidstone
> The reno guide says "14 days after germination (DAG) - Apply a fast nitrogen source (eg. urea, AMS) at a low rate (0.2lb of N/ksqft)."
> 
> I think i asked this before, but don't know if I got an answer. are the Days after Germination from the first seed that sprouts, from when "most of them have sprouted"? When the last has sprouted?
> 
> Much thanks..


Sorry for the delay man. I see you already got answers, but I'll throw in my experience.

I checked my reno journal, and here is how everything shook out:

8/17: initial seed down at 3 lbs KBG per K
8/23: first sign of germ
8/23-8/29: insane washouts
8/30: Re-seeded entire lawn at half rate (1.5 lbs KBG per K)
8/31: widespread germ (0 DAG)
9/18 - Starter fert granular @ 0.3 lbs N/1k
9/24 - Urea spray @ 0.25 lbs N/1k
9/30 - Urea spray @ 0.25 lbs N/1k
10/6 - Urea spray @ 0.25 lbs N/1k
10/14 - Urea spray @ 0.25 lbs N/1k
10/20 - Urea spray @ 0.3 lbs N/1k
10/26 - Urea spray @ 0.2 lbs N/1k
11/5 (unplanned / 70s temps) - Urea spray @ 0.3 lbs N/1k
11/25 (winterizer) - Urea spray @ 0.6 lbs N/1k

Total N after germination - 2.70 lbs/1k

0.25 lbs every 6 days is probably heavier than what most people do, but I started later than I wanted and tried to make up for it. I noticed some minor burning of the tips a couple of times but that's it. They went away after the next mow. I think overall the reno turned out well.

Here is the full story if you are interested:

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21439


----------



## uts

Had a quick question.

Im exactly 3 days after seed down (Friday evening). I noticed this patch of grass coming up. This def can't be the KBG seed germinating. Can I just spray glypho or deal with it later?


----------



## SNOWBOB11

uts said:


> Had a quick question.
> 
> Im exactly 3 days after seed down (Friday evening). I noticed this patch of grass coming up. This def can't be the KBG seed germinating. Can I just spray glypho or deal with it later?


If that were me I would spray with glyphosate but do it now. You still have at least 2 days before KBG will germinate.


----------



## uts

SNOWBOB11 said:


> uts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had a quick question.
> 
> Im exactly 3 days after seed down (Friday evening). I noticed this patch of grass coming up. This def can't be the KBG seed germinating. Can I just spray glypho or deal with it later?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that were me I would spray with glyphosate but do it now. You still have at least 2 days before KBG will germinate.
Click to expand...

Did it just before typing this. Thank you.


----------



## PANICiii

I did a renovation with TTTF and I'm now at 28 DAG. Looking great so far. Last week (21 DAG), I did add more seeds to bare spots made by Squirrels &#128063;️ and also spread a bit of seeds everywhere over thiner spots, knowing a lot may not succeed because it was not rolled into the soil. The bare spots seeds were stepped on and covered with peat moss. 
I see germination on the newer seeds that were added at 21 DAG which is good.

My problem now the existing grass is overgrowing (4inch + in some spots) and I'm not sure if it's more important to mow the existing grass or to let the new germination progress. I cannot just mow around the seeded bare apots because I also spread seeds a bit everywhere (to thicking it up a bit).

Also, I'm skipping the Tenacity at 28DAG and Nitrogen for now I think because of the new seed germination. So I followed the guide and it worked well but now at 28DAG I'm not sure what to do with mowing since I've added seeds at 21DAG and they are just starting to germinate (was slow because of lots of rain and not much sun/heat I think).

Any advice? Should I ignore the new seeds and mow the grass? It's gonna be like 6 inch long in a week I think.


----------



## g-man

Just ignore the new seeds. They are likely to survive.


----------



## PANICiii

Thanks g-man, will do. I'm going to get back to mowing. Should I also stick with the guide and fertilize? (.2 lb of N) Was just scared for the new germinated plants, because earlier in the reno we wait 2 weeks for the first spoon feed.


----------



## g-man

Yes do nitrogen. Which one is more important to you? The 90% of the yard that has germination or the 10% new seed spots? The 90% right? If you only had 50%, then that would be different approach.


----------



## PANICiii

Thank you again, and thanks for all your contribution on this forum. I'm learning so much in the last 2 years (new to lawn care).


----------



## TravisT

I'm reading through other reno threads, most are further north than I am, but I'm seeing some pretty impressive thickening of lawns in a relatively short amount of time. I have great coverage, but very little growth/thickness and I'm about 15 DAG. I'll probably do the first mow this weekend, but it probably won't take too much off.

I've spoonfed N and applied Humic12 and RGS so far. I'm still on a seeding watering schedule at the moment, but plan to up the duration and cut down the frequency a little. Any tips to get some additional growth? More water maybe?

This was from a few days ago, even more coverage this afternoon.


----------



## g-man

I would not use humic at seeding. If i recall correctly it could make phosphorus less available.


----------



## bernstem

@TravisT I wouldn't increase watering with that good of germination. It seems to be doing well now. Spoon feed Nitrogen weekly and stay the course. You probably don't need to mow new KBG at 2 weeks. That will thicken a lot with Nitrogen and a few weeks.


----------



## steffen707

TravisT said:


> I'm reading through other reno threads, most are further north than I am, but I'm seeing some pretty impressive thickening of lawns in a relatively short amount of time. I have great coverage, but very little growth/thickness and I'm about 15 DAG. I'll probably do the first mow this weekend, but it probably won't take too much off.
> 
> I've spoonfed N and applied Humic12 and RGS so far. I'm still on a seeding watering schedule at the moment, but plan to up the duration and cut down the frequency a little. Any tips to get some additional growth? More water maybe?
> 
> This was from a few days ago, even more coverage this afternoon.


what type of grass did you put down?


----------



## TravisT

g-man said:


> I would not use humic at seeding. If i recall correctly it could make phosphorus less available.


@g-man I hadn't read that. Good to know, and I'll do some more reading on the subject.



bernstem said:


> @TravisT I wouldn't increase watering with that good of germination. It seems to be doing well now. Spoon feed Nitrogen weekly and stay the course. You probably don't need to mow new KBG at 2 weeks. That will thicken a lot with Nitrogen and a few weeks.


@bernstem Should I keep watering as I was for seeding (daily) or start pulling back a little on frequency but increase duration?

@steffen707 
It's the SS1100 KBG blend from SeedSuperStore.com.


----------



## rickyracer

Quick question for you guys,
I am on day 12 and getting patchy germination all over the lawn
Since there's still seeds everywhere, i'm keeping the ground moist and still water 3 times a day

How do you guys mow when you're still expecting seeds to germinate? Do you just mow wet?


----------



## Harts

rickyracer said:


> Quick question for you guys,
> I am on day 12 and getting patchy germination all over the lawn
> Since there's still seeds everywhere, i'm keeping the ground moist and still water 3 times a day
> 
> How do you guys mow when you're still expecting seeds to germinate? Do you just mow wet?


What you are seeing is the PRG and fescue germinate. The KBG likely hasn't started yet or is just starting. You aren't close to mowing yet.

You do not want to mow when the ground is wet. General rule is to back off on the watering before mowing.

You'll want to make the first cut when the first of the new grass is about 2".

EDIT: Just saw your other post. Your neighbourhood looks like Mississauga.


----------



## rickyracer

Harts said:


> rickyracer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quick question for you guys,
> I am on day 12 and getting patchy germination all over the lawn
> Since there's still seeds everywhere, i'm keeping the ground moist and still water 3 times a day
> 
> How do you guys mow when you're still expecting seeds to germinate? Do you just mow wet?
> 
> 
> 
> What you are seeing is the PRG and fescue germinate. The KBG likely hasn't started yet or is just starting. You aren't close to mowing yet.
> 
> You do not want to mow when the ground is wet. General rule is to back off on the watering before mowing.
> 
> You'll want to make the first cut when the first of the new grass is about 2".
> 
> EDIT: Just saw your other post. Your neighbourhood looks like Mississauga.
Click to expand...

thank you, yes it is mississauga!

I got wash out twice in the past week.. if you recall last weekend's storm (after labour day) and then the one on Monday... both times i saw seeds all along the curb.

So i've re-seeded after each of the washouts, + the original seeding... i'm losing track of everything..


----------



## Harts

@rickyracer just sent you a pm.


----------



## Jeff_MI84

5-6 days after germination for TTTF (11 days after seed down) is 2.25" pretty good having used starter fertilizer?


----------



## bernstem

TravisT said:


> @bernstem Should I keep watering as I was for seeding (daily) or start pulling back a little on frequency but increase duration?


I would continue to water like you are expecting more germination until 3 weeks after seeding. At that point, I would start to decrease frequency and increase duration. How much depends on weather an local conditions.


----------



## Kstawski

So I'm 2 weeks after germination and will be putting down fertilizer this weekend. My soil test from spring indicated that my phosphorus was through the roof and my potassium was high. Am I good with just spoon feeding 46-0-0 or do I still throw down starter fertilizer? I should've taken a new soil test but it is what it is at this point.


----------



## Lust4Lawn

Kstawski said:


> So I'm 2 weeks after germination and will be putting down fertilizer this weekend. My soil test from spring indicated that my phosphorus was through the roof and my potassium was high. Am I good with just spoon feeding 46-0-0 or do I still throw down starter fertilizer? I should've taken a new soil test but it is what it is at this point.


Yes. Just apply N2. I had a very potassium deficient soil test for my Bluebank reno and I didn't add any potassium until the spring after the reno and had zero issues.


----------



## Blue1987

My seed day was on 9/6/2021 (first week had heavy rain which resulted in some washout, added more seed) and I'm currently on day 13. The seed has germinated to about 3 inches so far. In some areas 4+. Also some areas baby grass are growing.

a)Do I need to cut the grass now? (Reel mower or rotary?) 
b)When do I need to add more seed to areas that are bare? 
c)When should I add more fertilizer ? 
d) When should I apply more tenacity ?

Your help will be truly appreciated .

Yard Size: 3,300 sf Grass Seed : GCI TTTF Fertilizer: Lesco Starter Fertilizer


----------



## steffen707

Blue1987 said:


> My seed day was on 9/6/2021 (first week had heavy rain which resulted in some washout, added more seed) and I'm currently on day 13. The seed has germinated to about 3 inches so far. In some areas 4+. Also some areas baby grass are growing.
> 
> a)Do I need to cut the grass now? (Reel mower or rotary?)
> b)When do I need to add more seed to areas that are bare?
> c)When should I add more fertilizer ?
> d) When should I apply more tenacity ?
> 
> Your help will be truly appreciated .
> 
> Yard Size: 3,300 sf Grass Seed : GCI TTTF Fertilizer: Lesco Starter Fertilizer


I don't know where you live, but I had similar situation. Seeded, first week 9.5" of rain, reseaded 70% of reno, now I got some germination fron week 1 that's tall, and new babies that are short mixed all over. I started cutting the whole reno and as new grass comes in, it'll eventually be tall enough that the manual reel mower will cut it.

I'm doing short kbg though, not tttf, so I'm not sure how it applies to you.

My overall thinking is baby grass is tougher than we think. Be careful to not twist your feet when you walk, use flat shoes to spread out your weight, nothing with a heel, like a work boot or much boot.

Take your time avoid twisting and the grass will probably keep growing. Do you have any photos @Blue1987?


----------



## bernstem

Blue1987 said:


> My seed day was on 9/6/2021 (first week had heavy rain which resulted in some washout, added more seed) and I'm currently on day 13. The seed has germinated to about 3 inches so far. In some areas 4+. Also some areas baby grass are growing.
> 
> a)Do I need to cut the grass now? (Reel mower or rotary?)
> b)When do I need to add more seed to areas that are bare?
> c)When should I add more fertilizer ?
> d) When should I apply more tenacity ?
> 
> Your help will be truly appreciated .
> 
> Yard Size: 3,300 sf Grass Seed : GCI TTTF Fertilizer: Lesco Starter Fertilizer


You can/should mow now if the new grass is 3+ inches. If you have large areas of baby grass, but no tall grass, you can skip those areas. If they are mixed together just mow them. You may loose some seedlings, but the benefits generally outweigh the downsides. If you have a reel mower, that will be gentler on the new grass.

You can start spoon feeding now if you want or wait 2 weeks to start spoon feeding. Apply at 0.2-.25 lbs N/1k weekly for spoon feeding. If you don't want to spoon feed, I would wait 2 weeks to apply granular at .75-1 lbs N/1k.

At 2 weeks germination is mostly done. You can re-seed bare/thin areas now, but will have to continue watering frequently to germinate the new seed. Consider a preventive application of Propiconazole to prevent fungal issues with the high watering frequency.

Apply Tenacity at 4 weeks after germination if you are concerned about weed pressure.


----------



## Kstawski

Is there a special Urea 46-0-0 that's water soluble or can I grab any Urea 46-0-0 and mix it with water?


----------



## g-man

Kstawski said:


> Is there a special Urea 46-0-0 that's water soluble or can I grab any Urea 46-0-0 and mix it with water?


Any should work, but since you have a small lawn, use DEF(diesel exhaust fluid) from Walmart, auto parts, gas station. 10oz = 0.1lb of N.


----------



## Kstawski

g-man said:


> Kstawski said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a special Urea 46-0-0 that's water soluble or can I grab any Urea 46-0-0 and mix it with water?
> 
> 
> 
> Any should work, but since you have a small lawn, use DEF(diesel exhaust fluid) from Walmart, auto parts, gas station. 10oz = 0.1lb of N.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I have a very small lawn lol


----------



## Blue1987

steffen707 said:


> Blue1987 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My seed day was on 9/6/2021 (first week had heavy rain which resulted in some washout, added more seed) and I'm currently on day 13. The seed has germinated to about 3 inches so far. In some areas 4+. Also some areas baby grass are growing.
> 
> a)Do I need to cut the grass now? (Reel mower or rotary?)
> b)When do I need to add more seed to areas that are bare?
> c)When should I add more fertilizer ?
> d) When should I apply more tenacity ?
> 
> Your help will be truly appreciated .
> 
> Yard Size: 3,300 sf Grass Seed : GCI TTTF Fertilizer: Lesco Starter Fertilizer
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know where you live, but I had similar situation. Seeded, first week 9.5" of rain, reseaded 70% of reno, now I got some germination fron week 1 that's tall, and new babies that are short mixed all over. I started cutting the whole reno and as new grass comes in, it'll eventually be tall enough that the manual reel mower will cut it.
> 
> I'm doing short kbg though, not tttf, so I'm not sure how it applies to you.
> 
> My overall thinking is baby grass is tougher than we think. Be careful to not twist your feet when you walk, use flat shoes to spread out your weight, nothing with a heel, like a work boot or much boot.
> 
> Take your time avoid twisting and the grass will probably keep growing. Do you have any photos @Blue1987?
Click to expand...


----------



## Blue1987

bernstem said:


> Blue1987 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My seed day was on 9/6/2021 (first week had heavy rain which resulted in some washout, added more seed) and I'm currently on day 13. The seed has germinated to about 3 inches so far. In some areas 4+. Also some areas baby grass are growing.
> 
> a)Do I need to cut the grass now? (Reel mower or rotary?)
> b)When do I need to add more seed to areas that are bare?
> c)When should I add more fertilizer ?
> d) When should I apply more tenacity ?
> 
> Your help will be truly appreciated .
> 
> Yard Size: 3,300 sf Grass Seed : GCI TTTF Fertilizer: Lesco Starter Fertilizer
> 
> 
> 
> You can/should mow now if the new grass is 3+ inches. If you have large areas of baby grass, but no tall grass, you can skip those areas. If they are mixed together just mow them. You may loose some seedlings, but the benefits generally outweigh the downsides. If you have a reel mower, that will be gentler on the new grass.
> 
> You can start spoon feeding now if you want or wait 2 weeks to start spoon feeding. Apply at 0.2-.25 lbs N/1k weekly for spoon feeding. If you don't want to spoon feed, I would wait 2 weeks to apply granular at .75-1 lbs N/1k.
> 
> At 2 weeks germination is mostly done. You can re-seed bare/thin areas now, but will have to continue watering frequently to germinate the new seed. Consider a preventive application of Propiconazole to prevent fungal issues with the high watering frequency.
> 
> Apply Tenacity at 4 weeks after germination if you are concerned about weed pressure.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much! I just ordered a bottle of Propiconazole. What's the rate for preventative ?


----------



## Kstawski

g-man said:


> Kstawski said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a special Urea 46-0-0 that's water soluble or can I grab any Urea 46-0-0 and mix it with water?
> 
> 
> 
> Any should work, but since you have a small lawn, use DEF(diesel exhaust fluid) from Walmart, auto parts, gas station. 10oz = 0.1lb of N.
Click to expand...

For foliar app, do I use a surfactant?


----------



## g-man

No foliar in a reno


----------



## Kstawski

g-man said:


> No foliar in a reno


Got it, so water it in immediately?

What about established turf, surfactant?


----------



## g-man

Water in immediately.

For mature, you don't need surfactant.


----------



## bernstem

Blue1987 said:


> At 2 weeks germination is mostly done. You can re-seed bare/thin areas now, but will have to continue watering frequently to germinate the new seed. Consider a preventive application of Propiconazole to prevent fungal issues with the high watering frequency.


Thank you so much! I just ordered a bottle of Propiconazole. What's the rate for preventative ?
[/quote]

Rate varies depending on formulation, so check the label.


----------



## bernstem

bernstem said:


> Blue1987 said:
> 
> 
> 
> At 2 weeks germination is mostly done. You can re-seed bare/thin areas now, but will have to continue watering frequently to germinate the new seed. Consider a preventive application of Propiconazole to prevent fungal issues with the high watering frequency.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you so much! I just ordered a bottle of Propiconazole. What's the rate for preventative ?
Click to expand...

Rate varies depending on formulation, so check the label.


----------



## steffen707

I'm use to putting down a "winter blend" of fertilizer on my lawn around October 15 before the snow Flys.

I'm new to renovations and spoon feeding. Do I just keep spoon feeding every two weeks until the snow Flys on my renovation?


----------



## steffen707

steffen707 said:


> I'm use to putting down a "winter blend" of fertilizer on my lawn around October 15 before the snow Flys.
> 
> I'm new to renovations and spoon feeding. Do I just keep spoon feeding every two weeks until the snow Flys on my renovation?


Anybody? @g-man


----------



## SNOWBOB11

steffen707 said:


> I'm use to putting down a "winter blend" of fertilizer on my lawn around October 15 before the snow Flys.
> 
> I'm new to renovations and spoon feeding. Do I just keep spoon feeding every two weeks until the snow Flys on my renovation?


Usually it's best to finish up spoon feeding around your average first frost (not the first frost for the season). Looks like for central Wisconsin it's around the end of September or early October.


----------



## snapdown91

Ready to put seed down for an overseed today, but we're coming off of 4 straight days of rain (about 4"-5") that just ended this morning. Scalped yesterday when we had a period of no rain.

My yard is very saturated and muddy in spots. Should I give it a day to absorb the water before seeding? Or throw it down today? TTTF.


----------



## San

steffen707 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm use to putting down a "winter blend" of fertilizer on my lawn around October 15 before the snow Flys.
> 
> I'm new to renovations and spoon feeding. Do I just keep spoon feeding every two weeks until the snow Flys on my renovation?
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody? @g-man
Click to expand...

I won't comment on spoon feeding for a renovation, but with regards until when you stop, is when the grass stops growing. So if you are regularly mowing and notice you're not cutting anything anymore, you can also stop the spoon feeding.


----------



## steffen707

SNOWBOB11 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm use to putting down a "winter blend" of fertilizer on my lawn around October 15 before the snow Flys.
> 
> I'm new to renovations and spoon feeding. Do I just keep spoon feeding every two weeks until the snow Flys on my renovation?
> 
> 
> 
> Usually it's best to finish up spoon feeding around your average first frost (not the first frost for the season). Looks like for central Wisconsin it's around the end of September or early October.
Click to expand...

So just keep spoon feeding, don't switch to something like a "winterizer"?


----------



## SNOWBOB11

steffen707 said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm use to putting down a "winter blend" of fertilizer on my lawn around October 15 before the snow Flys.
> 
> I'm new to renovations and spoon feeding. Do I just keep spoon feeding every two weeks until the snow Flys on my renovation?
> 
> 
> 
> Usually it's best to finish up spoon feeding around your average first frost (not the first frost for the season). Looks like for central Wisconsin it's around the end of September or early October.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So just keep spoon feeding, don't switch to something like a "winterizer"?
Click to expand...

Yes. Just keep spoon feeding. No need for a heavy dose of nitrogen as the final app.


----------



## nolo-

Hi All,

Question re: 1st mow on a new renovation - should I bag the clippings or mulch?

It's GCI TTTF seed if that matters. I'm 5 DAG and I plan on putting down more seed in some bare spots before the 1st mow.

Thanks!


----------



## dgrove12

@TravisT - How's the SS1100 coming along? Mine is still pouting big time. Came it quicker than I thought it would but it's been an inch tall for a couple weeks. Don't look at all the weeds and rocks 



The TTTF is much further along:


----------



## Jeff_MI84

How many members here have had a reno or overseeding that didn't work out due to various factors then waited until the following season to make it better?

If so, what went wrong and were you fine with some bare spots or thin areas?


----------



## TravisT

dgrove12 said:


> @TravisT - How's the SS1100 coming along? Mine is still pouting big time. Came it quicker than I thought it would but it's been an inch tall for a couple weeks. Don't look at all the weeds and rocks
> 
> 
> 
> The TTTF is much further along:


I've had what I would consider good results. I have a trampoline in the yard, and it's really growing well under that. I'm not sure if that was due to the shading or that it diffused some of the rain/washout. Check my Reno thread for more details.


----------



## TravisT

Jeff_MI84 said:


> How many members here have had a reno or overseeding that didn't work out due to various factors then waited until the following season to make it better?
> 
> If so, what went wrong and were you fine with some bare spots or thin areas?


Last year, I started my partial Reno too late in the season, didn't have good watering, had considerable washout, and my boxer puppy tore through the area a few times. It didn't go well, and in mid Oct I folded and put down annual rye to prevent me from having to deal with the mud all winter. By mid spring, the rye had died off, but my KBG had come in nicely. Still have a few bare spots but impressive from where it was last year.

What I think went wrong was I waited too late in the season. Seed went down in mid September, which resulted in lower temps, slower germination and no time to reseed any areas that didn't germinate.


----------



## Jeff_MI84

@TravisT i had to delay the start of my seeding because the lawn service (that I am dropping at the end of the year), put down a herbicide with a label that stated to not seed for 3-4 weeks. This was despite the fact that I told them I was using Tenacity at seed down.

I figured that PRG was risky at this point and didn't want need grass that didn't make it into the spring. I have germination in the front and back (just noticed today). I'm even more anxious to kill it all next July. This season was more or less a lessons learned and trial for a reno. The side of my house is only 135sqft and I dropped seed the day before Labor Day. So now I know to not delay next year. Next spring I am doing everything myself for the first time in years, no more relying on misinformation or bad timing. I have two more applications and they were planning on putting fertilizer down tomorrow (one week after my last seed down date)'and I had to tell them not too so the new grass wouldn't get blocked out from the existing grass shooting up.

We had a cold front and endless rain this week, after a period of temperatures in the mid 80's. Last fall I had slit seeded on 9/11 and by this time I had a lot of success. Like I said, lessons learned.


----------



## Sphero43

20 DAG - will this new grass darken up with time? Should I consider spraying a little iron down to help? It's SS1000 Tall Fescue blend (Avenger II, 4th Mill, Raptor III, Amity)


----------



## Kstawski

So I completely renovated with a KBG mix. Due to some washout, there's a patch, about a square foot or so, that's really dense and majorally overcrowded and there's sections that are pretty bare - would you recommend that I try to and transplant small sections of the dense area to the bare patches? (If yes, what's the best way to do it) It's 24 DAG and the grass is about 2" and I just reel mowed it down to 1.5" today


----------



## g-man

You will need pictures to see what thin is. You might not need to do anything.


----------



## Kstawski

g-man said:


> You will need pictures to see what thin is. You might not need to do anything.


Here is the overcrowded area (25 DAG)



Here is the thin area (the obvious visible seedlings are also 25 DAG, but there are also some seedlings mixed in that are in the pout phase about 10 DAG)


----------



## TravisT

I'm no expert, but last year I had very similar results to your thin areas. By early this year, it had filled in nicely. I didn't want to wait that long, but in my experience, it will fill in if you give it time.


----------



## Kstawski

TravisT said:


> I'm no expert, but last year I had very similar results to your thin areas. By early this year, it had filled in nicely. I didn't want to wait that long, but in my experience, it will fill in if you give it time.


That's what I'm thinking too. I was actually more concerned that the overgrown area is much too dense and if I needed to thin it out, I could put some plugs into an area that could use it


----------



## JerseyGreens

@Kstawski - I wouldn't pull plugs at 25DAG. Those roots are too young to go through that process (my personal opinion).

The thin areas - I see lots of green. Should fill in with N this year and even more so next Spring.

Those overcrowded areas were littered all over my Reno. Took some time but I got them thinned out with scarifying. You will be fine.


----------



## MattR

My reno is going great. I have two areas that are around 6-7k sf each and both have come in great so far. There are some thin areas that are filling in and I think I'll be in a great spot for next year. One section was seed down 8/28 and the other was 9/2. Both have been mowed 4-5 times already! I swear it is growing .5-1" a day! I used mesotrione and starter fertilizer at seed down and then have put down about .3 lbs of nitrogen 9/15 and 9/22. With all this growth, should I keep with the nitrogen? Between work, family, and getting dark early, it's hard to find time to keep cutting it. To stay within the 1/3 rule, I have had to get to 4" and I am still struggling to keep up.


----------



## TravisT

Got some baby stripes on the Reno!





Second cut this morning.


----------



## Harts

MattR said:


> My reno is going great. I have two areas that are around 6-7k sf each and both have come in great so far. There are some thin areas that are filling in and I think I'll be in a great spot for next year. One section was seed down 8/28 and the other was 9/2. Both have been mowed 4-5 times already! I swear it is growing .5-1" a day! I used mesotrione and starter fertilizer at seed down and then have put down about .3 lbs of nitrogen 9/15 and 9/22. With all this growth, should I keep with the nitrogen? Between work, family, and getting dark early, it's hard to find time to keep cutting it. To stay within the 1/3 rule, I have had to get to 4" and I am still struggling to keep up.


This looks great. If keeping up with mowing is difficult, then stop the N apps. Or reduce it down to 0.1 or 0.2lb N.

With each passing week in the Fall, the grass is taking in less and less N. You're probably not far from top growth ceasing anyways.

If you can, keep up the apps. You won't be sorry. But life gets in the way and at the end of the day, it's just grass.


----------



## Kstawski

Another day, another question:

Backstory: For the last few nights, racoons have been digging 1-3 holes each night in my renovation. My neighbor has been leaving cat food out at night for the local cats and has been attracting every animal from the local Forest preserve. I'm going to ask her to bring the food in at night, but she's not very reasonable so I'm anticipating her to say no.

I don't have grubs, and to be safe I spread trichlorfon Tuesday night to kill anything the raccoons maybe hunting for. I ordered a motion sensor sprinkler that I will set up tonight to try and keep them at bay.

In the morning I've been carefully putting the plugs of grass back into the dirt and gently pressing them in and I've been keeping the grass moist throughout the day so they don't dry out. My question is, is there anything else I should be doing to ensure those areas don't completely die off?

Here are some pics of the damage:


----------



## whitetrash paradise

1 month + 1 day from germination, 365ss establishes fast. Have been trimming the tops at 1".


----------



## VALawnNoob

Can I spray this as N source first feeding 2-3 weeks DAG? It is marketed as slow release but has 12% Urea to be absorbed foliar so wondering if this can work?

https://brandt.co/media/8914/brandt-converge-srn-18-3-6-canada-label.pdf
Guaranteed Analysis
Total Nitrogen (N) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18.00%
0.6% Nitrate nitrogen
12.0% Urea nitrogen
5.4% Other water soluble nitrogen*
Available Phosphate (P2O5) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.00%
Soluble Potash (K2O) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6.00%
Copper (Cu) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.05%
0.05% Chelated copper
Iron (Fe) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.10%
0.10% Chelated iron
Manganese (Mn) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.05%
0.05% Chelated manganese
Zinc (Zn) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.05%
0.05% Chelated zinc
Derived from potassium nitrate, triazone, methylene urea, urea, potassium polyphosphate, copper EDTA, iron EDTA, manganese EDTA and zinc EDTA.
* 5.4% Slowly available nitrogen from triazone and methylene urea.
General Information
BRANDT CONVERGE SRN 18-3-6 brings it all together in one highly efficient, foliar nutritional product. The fully chelated micronutrient package can be taken up
either by foliar or soil absorption. The unique blend of ingredients provides quick
greening to turfgrasses without rapid top growth.
Rate Recommendations
For professional use, apply twice a month as a foliar spray early in the morning
or late in the day for best results. Allow foliar sprays to dry thoroughly before
irrigation to insure even foliar uptake.
For Warm or Cool Season Turfgrasses:
Maintenance: 4 fl oz per 1,000 sq ft or 1.25 gallons per acre.
Renovation: 6 fl oz per 1,000 sq ft or 2 gallons per acre.
Overseeding: 8 fl oz per 1,000 sq ft or 2.5 gallons per acre, applied at least semimonthly after seeds have begun to germinate. Most effective when used as part of
an overall overseeding nutritional program.


----------



## Kstawski

VALawnNoob said:


> Can I spray this as N source first feeding 2-3 weeks DAG? It is marketed as slow release but has 12% Urea to be absorbed foliar so wondering if this can work?
> 
> https://brandt.co/media/8914/brandt-converge-srn-18-3-6-canada-label.pdf
> Guaranteed Analysis
> Total Nitrogen (N) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18.00%
> 0.6% Nitrate nitrogen
> 12.0% Urea nitrogen
> 5.4% Other water soluble nitrogen*
> Available Phosphate (P2O5) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.00%
> Soluble Potash (K2O) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6.00%
> Copper (Cu) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.05%
> 0.05% Chelated copper
> Iron (Fe) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.10%
> 0.10% Chelated iron
> Manganese (Mn) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.05%
> 0.05% Chelated manganese
> Zinc (Zn) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.05%
> 0.05% Chelated zinc
> Derived from potassium nitrate, triazone, methylene urea, urea, potassium polyphosphate, copper EDTA, iron EDTA, manganese EDTA and zinc EDTA.
> * 5.4% Slowly available nitrogen from triazone and methylene urea.
> General Information
> BRANDT CONVERGE SRN 18-3-6 brings it all together in one highly efficient, foliar nutritional product. The fully chelated micronutrient package can be taken up
> either by foliar or soil absorption. The unique blend of ingredients provides quick
> greening to turfgrasses without rapid top growth.
> Rate Recommendations
> For professional use, apply twice a month as a foliar spray early in the morning
> or late in the day for best results. Allow foliar sprays to dry thoroughly before
> irrigation to insure even foliar uptake.
> For Warm or Cool Season Turfgrasses:
> Maintenance: 4 fl oz per 1,000 sq ft or 1.25 gallons per acre.
> Renovation: 6 fl oz per 1,000 sq ft or 2 gallons per acre.
> Overseeding: 8 fl oz per 1,000 sq ft or 2.5 gallons per acre, applied at least semimonthly after seeds have begun to germinate. Most effective when used as part of
> an overall overseeding nutritional program.


Not sure about using this fertilizer, I just know you shouldn't do foliar apps on seedlings, the N needs to be watered in.


----------



## cyrjm

I see comments saying no foliar apps during a reno...I have a bunch of 18-0-1 GreenePunch I'd like to use up, can I use that to spoonfeed but just water it in right after application?


----------



## bf7

cyrjm said:


> I see comments saying no foliar apps during a reno...I have a bunch of 18-0-1 GreenePunch I'd like to use up, can I use that to spoonfeed but just water it in right after application?


That's fine on kbg. Spray around 0.25 lbs N/k. Water in immediately. No issues.

This is assuming the grass is at least a couple of weeks old.


----------



## Blue1987

I'm 28 Days into Reno..... I haven't fertilized since seed day, the grass is looking great with a few bare spots. 
What if I don't have any Urea, can I use some Starter Fertilizer (Lesco 18-24-12)I used on seed day? If so, do I spoon feed (0.25)it weekly?


----------



## bf7

Blue1987 said:


> I'm 28 Days into Reno..... I haven't fertilized since seed day, the grass is looking great with a few bare spots.
> What if I don't have any Urea, can I use some Starter Fertilizer (Lesco 18-24-12)I used on seed day? If so, do I spoon feed (0.25)it weekly?


Absolutely. Any N source works. I've never tried dissolving starter fert, but no reason you can't throw it in the spreader. The 0.25 rate is good on a reno.

I like the Lesco starter fert.


----------



## Blue1987

bf7 said:


> Blue1987 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm 28 Days into Reno..... I haven't fertilized since seed day, the grass is looking great with a few bare spots.
> What if I don't have any Urea, can I use some Starter Fertilizer (Lesco 18-24-12)I used on seed day? If so, do I spoon feed (0.25)it weekly?
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely. Any N source works. I've never tried dissolving starter fert, but no reason you can't throw it in the spreader. The 0.25 rate is good on a reno.
> 
> I like the Lesco starter fert.
Click to expand...

Thank you!


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## JP900++

Fyi. I've been doing the Brandt 18-3-6, because I have it, and have had no issues. I did an application at about 1/2 strength a week after I saw good germination and felt safe to walk on the lawn, the other application was last week. I feel safe enough now to do a regular app. I've had no issues, and things have filled in well-too well in some spots.


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## bf7

@Blue1987 I should have added - the only time I would hesitate to use starter fert is if your soil already has high P.


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## VALawnNoob

JP900++ said:


> Fyi. I've been doing the Brandt 18-3-6, because I have it, and have had no issues. I did an application at about 1/2 strength a week after I saw good germination and felt safe to walk on the lawn, the other application was last week. I feel safe enough now to do a regular app. I've had no issues, and things have filled in well-too well in some spots.


Thanks for your experience. I applied this morning. A big part of why I felt it was safe despite the "no foliar" comments here is that the label referenced overseeding and renovation. I don't see why Brandt would put that there if it wasn't safe.

_Renovation: 6 fl oz per 1,000 sq ft or 2 gallons per acre.
Overseeding: 8 fl oz per 1,000 sq ft or 2.5 gallons per acre, applied at least semimonthly after seeds have begun to germinate. Most effective when used as part of an overall overseeding nutritional program._


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## steffen707

I applied tenacity at seed down, then added it per the reno guide at 28DAG. Most of the weeds are turning white by 36DAG, but i'm wondering should I apply another dose of tenacity in a couple weeks before snow flys?


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## MattR

My reno is going very well. The front is doing terrific and you can *almost* not tell where the new and old grass meet in color. I see the fine fescue to mix line, but no one else does 

I want to put down some more nitrogen (.2#/k per week) but the grass is not really ever drying out. Between some overcast, heavy dew, and cooler days, I haven't had to water in 3-4 days and the ground is still moist. Should I put down spray some urea and water it in? Spread it as granular?


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## g-man

I prefer granular. You will need to sprinkle some water to help it dissolve.


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## MattR

When do people think it's safe to have some traffic on the renos? I'm 6 weeks from seed down, probably mowed 6 or 7 times.


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## spaceman_spiff

MattR said:


> When do people think it's safe to have some traffic on the renos? I'm 6 weeks from seed down, probably mowed 6 or 7 times.


My toddlers waited until 5 mins after germination. You should be good to go :lol:


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## mattb

My 2021 PRG reno looks great from afar, but less than perfect close up. I'm 50 days post seed down, although had to deal with with Ida and the other august storm which caused some wash outs (and subsequent additional seeding). I've been applying .25N per K for the past few weeks.

Will this thicken up or should I add more seed since the next week or so seems to have above average temps?


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## g-man

What product are you using for nitrogen? Do you have a soil test from a good lab?


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## mattb

g-man said:


> What product are you using for nitrogen? Do you have a soil test from a good lab?


Urea.

Yes, got a soil test earlier in the year (UConn Extension) that showed P and K in optimal range but Ph low (5.5) which I've hopefully brought up over the past few months with lime.

I did forgot to mention that I think I had a bit of fungus from over watering (larger KBG reno on the same irrigation zones as the PRG so I had to keep up with the 4x daily watering for longer than than it needed). I dropped the curative rate of disease-x 2 weeks ago and I have seen improvements since.


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## uts

Can anyone help me ID this in the reno. This one spot didnt grow much but only this came up.


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## ovmus

Worth it to mix a bit of this KBG in with my TTTF from United Seed on a full reno? I was thinking a 50/50 split of 4th Millenium and Traverse 2 but not sure if I should add a pinch of this KBG that's been collecting dust. Thoughts?


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## uts

@ovmus your united seed is free of weed and other crop, the Scott's is not. I would not mix it.


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## gm560

uts said:


> Can anyone help me ID this in the reno. This one spot didnt grow much but only this came up.


Could be wrong, but I am thinking that is poa annua. Basing this on the shape of the leaves, the color and the waves at the base of some of the leaves in your first picture.


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## uts

gm560 said:


> uts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone help me ID this in the reno. This one spot didnt grow much but only this came up.
> 
> 
> 
> Could be wrong, but I am thinking that is poa annua. Basing this on the shape of the leaves, the color and the waves at the base of some of the leaves in your first picture.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Will fill a bucket tomorrow!


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## Chris LI

uts said:


> gm560 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone help me ID this in the reno. This one spot didnt grow much but only this came up.
> 
> 
> 
> Could be wrong, but I am thinking that is poa annua. Basing this on the shape of the leaves, the color and the waves at the base of some of the leaves in your first picture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you. Will fill a bucket tomorrow!
Click to expand...

+1 on the Poa A ID. The squiggly leaf blades caught my eye. Good luck with the picking.


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## Kstawski

So I've had a rabbit enjoying the KBG renovation and has been feeding on the new grass and resting in the same areas so often that they're matted.

He's been avoiding the trap so far and doesn't mind the motion activated sprinkler. Is there anything I can do to vitalize the areas he's been chilling in. Lightly raking hasn't really done anything. I've been mowing weekly at 2" and applying .2lbs of area weekly.


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## lbb091919

Probably not much you can do except for get rid of him and wait for the KBG to fill in those areas.

I bet those spots will be gone by the end of next spring


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## Grass in Mass

Should I be worried about this yellowing and patchy color? I applied granular urea on the 9th so not sure if maybe it's burn? I cut it on the 18th too too about 2".


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## Grass in Mass

Should I be worried about this yellowing and patchy color? I applied granular urea on the 9th so not sure if maybe it's burn? I cut it on the 18th too too about 2".


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## g-man

How much of what exact product did you apply and when?


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## probara

whitetrash paradise said:


> 1 month + 1 day from germination, 365ss establishes fast. Have been trimming the tops at 1".


Glad to see your awesome quick results! I just bought a bag of this from United Seeds.


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