# Pushing growth with Nitrogen



## Chuckatuck89 (Mar 28, 2019)

After making some needed landscaping changes this winter and babying the new sod last year, Im ready to push my Celebration for some aggressive growth/spreading early this season before I start the PGR.

Whats the favorite method for weekly N applications in regards to cost and ease of application? Yard size is 3k sqft and I have a spreader, tank sprayer, and ortho hose end sprayer. Is 0.5N/k per week a good target once I get steady warm temps?


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

I sprayed 0.5 lb N/k per week by dissolving urea in a hose-end sprayer. That was cheap and easy for 2500 sq ft and worked really well.

Just be prepared that when the aggressive growth hits, it hits hard. Before I knew it I was cutting off more than 1/3 by mowing every other day. I'm not sure when you'd need to start PGR to head that off.


----------



## Topcat (Mar 21, 2017)

Last year I sprayed .5lb/1000 to push my Tiftuf. I did this over several weeks. I will NOT do that again. I was cutting daily to keep it in check. Several weeks into it I had to dethatch and the thatch build up was outrageous.

Edit- I also had to dethatch and verticut twice within weeks of each other to get the thatch out of the turf. I did start PGR and growth slowed but my personal lesson for that experience was go lighter on N application this year and start PGR sooner rather than later.


----------



## Chuckatuck89 (Mar 28, 2019)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> I sprayed 0.5 lb N/k per week by dissolving urea in a hose-end sprayer. That was cheap and easy for 2500 sq ft and worked really well.
> 
> Just be prepared that when the aggressive growth hits, it hits hard. Before I knew it I was cutting off more than 1/3 by mowing every other day. I'm not sure when you'd need to start PGR to head that off.


Thanks, would you mind sharing the specs like how much water you used to dissolve the urea and what setting you had the hose end sprayer on? Thats about 1lb of urea per 1000sqft right?

Im still working from home every day so should be able to stay on top of the mowing, also Im on a rotary so it's not super short. My goal is to fill in some bare spots where I removed a flower bed around a small tree and where the small tree was blocking the sun too much. Once thats filled in I will dial it back and probably start the PGR.


----------



## Getting Fat (Dec 31, 2019)

Bermuda - how'd you spray using a hose end? Mix it then put it in hose end and spray an area then refill?


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

Chuckatuck89 said:


> Thanks, would you mind sharing the specs like how much water you used to dissolve the urea and what setting you had the hose end sprayer on? Thats about 1lb of urea per 1000sqft right?





Getting Fat said:


> Bermuda - how'd you spray using a hose end? Mix it then put it in hose end and spray an area then refill?


I have a Bonide hose-end sprayer. I put in the requisite amount of urea (and yes, about 1 lb per ksqft which is about a pint of urea granules per k by volume) then filled it with HOT water and swished it around til it was dissolved. (Hot water can dissolve urea even if the urea fills about half the container; cold water wouldn't dissolve it nearly as well.)

I couldn't tell you what setting I had the sprayer on . . . if I recall correctly I set it somewhere in the middle (2 oz/gal maybe?), then just covered the yard in multiple passes at different directions 'til it was gone. For a small yard, that works just fine. For a larger yard I'm sure you'd want to dial it in a little better to save time.

Now, I did the front (600 sq ft) and back (1900 sq ft) separately. I think if I'd done them together, it may have been hard to dissolve all of the urea in one go. So you may want to plan to either do the same, or do 0.25lb/k twice.

The way I figure it, some of this ended up being absorbed foliarly but most of it probably got to the soil. And I'm good with that.


----------



## Jason229 (Apr 4, 2020)

How would you push Bermuda growth with granular?


----------



## JOrasanu (Apr 9, 2021)

You wait for the water to cool down before spraying right or does water temp not matter?



Bermuda_Rooster said:


> Chuckatuck89 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, would you mind sharing the specs like how much water you used to dissolve the urea and what setting you had the hose end sprayer on? Thats about 1lb of urea per 1000sqft right?
> ...


----------



## Chuckatuck89 (Mar 28, 2019)

Topcat said:


> Last year I sprayed .5lb/1000 to push my Tiftuf. I did this over several weeks. I will NOT do that again. I was cutting daily to keep it in check. Several weeks into it I had to dethatch and the thatch build up was outrageous.
> 
> Edit- I also had to dethatch and verticut twice within weeks of each other to get the thatch out of the turf. I did start PGR and growth slowed but my personal lesson for that experience was go lighter on N application this year and start PGR sooner rather than later.


Sounds like I need to keep an eye on it. I might even transition to just pushing the area I want to spread. Thanks for the input


----------



## Chuckatuck89 (Mar 28, 2019)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> Chuckatuck89 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, would you mind sharing the specs like how much water you used to dissolve the urea and what setting you had the hose end sprayer on? Thats about 1lb of urea per 1000sqft right?
> ...


This sounds similar to what I was doing with diesel exhaust fluid last year, which was 20 oz per k to get down 0.25lb N. Since the straight urea is about a pint per lb it sounds like I could get the whole yard with one ortho container full which would be nice.

What's your source for urea?


----------



## rjw0283 (May 11, 2020)

@Chuckatuck89 If you have a SiteOne near you, they carry 50LB bags of Urea 46-0-0 for about 30 bucks


----------



## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Jason229 said:


> How would you push Bermuda growth with granular?


Same way, figure what pure urea you have like a 46-0-0 and shoot for .25# of N per 1k sqft. Don't buy the expensive slow release, you want basic fast action urea.

Just be ready to mow and mow and mow.


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

JOrasanu said:


> You wait for the water to cool down before spraying right or does water temp not matter?


With the amount of hose water it'll mix with, the temp is no worry. It won't be hot when it hits the grass.



Chuckatuck89 said:


> This sounds similar to what I was doing with diesel exhaust fluid last year, which was 20 oz per k to get down 0.25lb N. Since the straight urea is about a pint per lb it sounds like I could get the whole yard with one ortho container full which would be nice.
> 
> What's your source for urea?


For 3k I'd be careful. For my sprayer that would be totally full of granules, and I'm not sure if I could add enough water for it to dissolve in. But maybe your sprayer is bigger.

I get my urea from the local Co-op, and it costs less than $20 for 50 lbs. Hard to beat that.


----------



## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

Topcat said:


> Last year I sprayed .5lb/1000 to push my Tiftuf. I did this over several weeks. I will NOT do that again. I was cutting daily to keep it in check. Several weeks into it I had to dethatch and the thatch build up was outrageous.
> 
> Edit- I also had to dethatch and verticut twice within weeks of each other to get the thatch out of the turf. I did start PGR and growth slowed but my personal lesson for that experience was go lighter on N application this year and start PGR sooner rather than later.


@Topcat I agree with you. Linked below is an article on the dangers of over fertilizing. It leads to more problems.

https://www.sundaygardener.net/problems-with-over-fertilization/

Dangers of Over-Fertilizing

Over-fertilizing is not just costly and, in the long run, ineffective: it can also permanently harm your lawn and bring many bad effects. The main problem with over-fertilizing cycles is that repeated use of high-nitrogen fertilizers are like giving your lawn a drug. Like many drugs, your lawn will become addicted.

When your lawn is addicted to this type of fertilizer, it will need more and more amounts of the nitrogen feed for results to show. Such high amounts of fertilizer will eventually ruin and completely damage your lawn.

Lots of nitrogen will encourage grass to produce lots of leaf growth, which will make the lawn green up. However, this same leaf growth is bad in excessive amounts because it will pose a problem. You will need to cut it more, several times per week. After about a year of this, you will notice your *lawn becoming spongy* and *attracting fungal diseases*. This 
happens because all that leaf growth has decayed into the lawn, creating a thick layer of thatch. Natural organic decomposition process simply can't cope with that. It means it will build up more and more.

Over time, it will create a big mess on your lawn. The only way to fix it is to resort to drastic lawn regeneration work. It will cost you a lot of money and time. All of this can be avoided with a proper fertilization routine.

https://thelawnsolutions.com/how-to-fix-an-over-fertilized-lawn/
Feed weak grass less fertilizer

If the lawn you are caring for has robust and healthy grass, feel free to use the full dose as recommended by the fertilizer manufacturer.

If the lawn is in poor condition, then you may have to coax it back to life gently. Adding too much fertilizer can actually be detrimental, and the grass may not be able to absorb it all. Feed a weak lawn lightly until you have given it the full dose over a few days or weeks.


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

JOrasanu said:


> You wait for the water to cool down before spraying right or does water temp not matter?


It's actually a cool science experiment to see how quickly the water cools off as soon as it hits the urea. It won't be hot when it hits the grass. I think the technical term for the reaction is endothermic. Anyway... I think it's cool but I'm kind of nerdy that way.


----------



## Jason229 (Apr 4, 2020)

FATC1TY said:


> Jason229 said:
> 
> 
> > How would you push Bermuda growth with granular?
> ...


So would putting down 34-0-0 monthly at 2lbs per 1000 do the trick as well? I don't have the time to do it weekly. My local feed store doesn't have 46-0-0


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Redtwin said:


> JOrasanu said:
> 
> 
> > You wait for the water to cool down before spraying right or does water temp not matter?
> ...


+1 When I started spraying liquids, it was amazing how cold the water got when you added the Urea, AMS or Potassium Nitrate to hot water. I should have gotten my temperature probe and checked the temp before and after that would have been really neat to see.

As for the OP's original question, I would NOT recommend pushing growth of your bermuda lawn unless it is really thin and weak. There is no need to be applying 1 lb/M of Nitrogen monthly on your lawn as it will just create other issues down the line that you will have to deal with. I would shoot for around .5 lbs/M/month and go from there and try and spread that out as much as you can with whatever kind of fertilizer you have or like to use.


----------



## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Jason229 said:


> FATC1TY said:
> 
> 
> > Jason229 said:
> ...


If you can't spoon feed then go with one application a month, at .5# of N per 1k. With your fertilizer that comes out to right around 6 pounds of your 34-0-0 to cover your 4000sq ft.

If you wanted to really push it for any reason, then do the above every two weeks and I'm quite sure you'll see growth pushed. If you don't have time to apply weekly, you likely don't have time to mow I would assume, so I'd be careful fertilizing and not keeping up with the maintenance of it.


----------



## Jason229 (Apr 4, 2020)

FATC1TY said:


> Jason229 said:
> 
> 
> > FATC1TY said:
> ...


----------



## Topcat (Mar 21, 2017)

@Jason229 my comments are not meant to discourage you but to enlighten. Pushing growth comes with a huge time commitment in terms of time spent with daily mowing and mid-season dethatch that might have been unplanned. I would have never believed that I'd have to cut my lawn daily, but facts. Bermuda can grow aggressively when given a lot of N - especially if you have hot and sunny weather.


----------



## Jason229 (Apr 4, 2020)

Topcat said:


> @Jason229 my comments are not meant to discourage you but to enlighten. Pushing growth comes with a huge time commitment in terms of time spent with daily mowing and mid-season dethatch that might have been unplanned. I would have never believed that I'd have to cut my lawn daily, but facts. Bermuda can grow aggressively when given a lot of N - especially if you have hot and sunny weather.


Oh I no way did I take it that way, if anything I'm grateful for your advice. My wife has been on my *** about having grass in the back, so your advice is my appreciated. I actually just put down some 15-0-15 down & I just picked up some 34-0-0. I will start the weekly feeding next month or can I start sooner?


----------



## Topcat (Mar 21, 2017)

Jason229 said:


> Topcat said:
> 
> 
> > @Jason229 my comments are not meant to discourage you but to enlighten. Pushing growth comes with a huge time commitment in terms of time spent with daily mowing and mid-season dethatch that might have been unplanned. I would have never believed that I'd have to cut my lawn daily, but facts. Bermuda can grow aggressively when given a lot of N - especially if you have hot and sunny weather.
> ...


As soon as you have good green up (close to 100%) you can start feeding Nitrogen.


----------



## Jason229 (Apr 4, 2020)

@Topcat ok good deal, probably late may to early June. I'm about 80% now & it looks like temps are dipping back down to the mid 70's all of next week.


----------



## Chuckatuck89 (Mar 28, 2019)

Mightyquinn said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> > JOrasanu said:
> ...


Thanks Quinn,

perhaps I misunderstood some other posts on here. I was under the impression that if you are trying to get Bermuda to spread, water, fertilizer, and mowing low are your best options.

What would be your recommendation to fill in a completely bare area about 50 sqft as quickly as I can manage?


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

You are correct on what you said if you want it to spread but if you are trying to fill in an area you can take plugs from the good areas and transplant them to the bare areas. Look into buying a ProPlugger, it makes the job almost enjoyable.


----------



## mjh648 (Sep 1, 2020)

@Topcat are you dethatching your SA? Is so how? Every time I take a rake to my SA it's like nails on a chalkboard watching all my runners get pulled up.


----------



## Topcat (Mar 21, 2017)

mjh648 said:


> @Topcat are you dethatching your SA? Is so how? Every time I take a rake to my SA it's like nails on a chalkboard watching all my runners get pulled up.


This year I simply scalped my St Aug as low as my rotary would go. I did not dethatch it. However I have dethatched it years ago and it did recover. I pulled out my Swardman this year and did a test patch and decided to not dethatch this year. The patch I tried is filling back in but your results could vary. At Aug doesn't have rhizome like Bermuda. If you pull out too many healthy stolons the lawn will not recover.


----------



## mjh648 (Sep 1, 2020)

@Topcat what does scalping the SA do? The thatch is an accumulation of decomposing blades right? Does taking off all that grass expose more thatch making it quicker to decompose?


----------



## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

@Topcat, what height does that lowest setting correspond to on a flat surface? I'm trying to figure out how to do this. I went down to 2.75" this year, and it was fine everywhere _except_ the edges against a mulch bed where I have the living edge. In summary, I think I can safely go lower then 2.75" in most areas.


----------



## Topcat (Mar 21, 2017)

To not hijack a thread that has nothing to do with scalping St Aug, I will start a thread on topic.


----------



## JOrasanu (Apr 9, 2021)

How much water did you use? I think I'm overthinking it



Bermuda_Rooster said:


> Chuckatuck89 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, would you mind sharing the specs like how much water you used to dissolve the urea and what setting you had the hose end sprayer on? Thats about 1lb of urea per 1000sqft right?
> ...


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

JOrasanu said:


> How much water did you use? I think I'm overthinking it


That question has two answers-- I fill up the inside of the sprayer with hot water to dissolve the urea, so there's that one. And then the setting on the sprayer determines how much additional water the urea solution gets mixed with as you spray, and I believe I usually set it around 2 oz/gal, though this allows for multiple passes.


----------



## Chuckatuck89 (Mar 28, 2019)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> JOrasanu said:
> 
> 
> > How much water did you use? I think I'm overthinking it
> ...


This brings up another question: can you add too much carrier water when doing foliar feedings? I suppose at some point you could but are you pretty safe just setting the hose end sprayer to whatever setting you feel comfortable for your walking speed?


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

Chuckatuck89 said:


> This brings up another question: can you add too much carrier water when doing foliar feedings? I suppose at some point you could but are you pretty safe just setting the hose end sprayer to whatever setting you feel comfortable for your walking speed?


When I do this with a hose-end sprayer, I don't really consider it foliar for the reason you identified. It's too much carrier. My guess is 25-50% of the urea, at most, stays on the leaves while the rest hits the soil. And I'm fine with that.

If I wanted to do a true foliar feeding I would not use a hose-end sprayer at all.


----------

