# K4less extreme blend help!



## Liledgy (Aug 21, 2018)

I have 1 pound of the extreme blend powder and am confused (conflicted) on how much to use to make a 1 gallon concentrate to spray my lawn. I've read to use the whole pound, use 8oz. And then put 3oz in a gallon sprayer per 1000 sf. 
The directions (as others have stated) are geared more towards plants vs lawn applications. 
Thanks for helping this newbie!


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

I feel that with products like this, there isn't _really_ a wrong answer. One one side you're wasting your money if you apply too little because it won't do anything. On the other, you're wasting your money because you put down more than can actually be used by the lawn. The good news is that it can't really hurt your lawn.

I personally am using it at 10g powder / M and not making the concentrate. That roughly the same as using 3oz concentrate / M, where the concentrate is 1 lb powder in 1 gal water.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

For reference, I mixed the K4L humic/fulvic/kelp at 8oz per 1 gal for a concentrate. I used that at 4oz/M when it was over 85 outside and it yellowed the lawn. It recovered a week later once we had some rain and was just fine after. I don't water in my apps. I'm pretty sure it was the heat combined with the kelp which did it. So, can you use too much? If you water it in, probably not but if you do a foliar app and keep it that way (not water it in) there may be a point which it is too much...

Assuming it's not 85+ outside, I like the 10g/M rate but that is for the humic/fulvic/kelp mix. That's what I'm going to use once I finish the concentrate. The liquid in the bottle stinks now. I think the kelp is fermenting... Probably best to keep it dry. The extreme blend has other stuff so maybe you could go at a higher rate. Either way, humates really complement fert so I would spray and fert the same day.


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

Good point about watering it in @Suburban Jungle Life!

RGS, which is the well marketed version of the humic/fulvic/kelp as a concentrate, recommends watering in the product unless it's applied with a hose end sprayer.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

samjonester said:


> Good point about watering it in @Suburban Jungle Life!
> 
> RGS, which is the well marketed version of the humic/fulvic/kelp as a concentrate, recommends watering in the product unless it's applied with a hose end sprayer.


I never water it in and haven't had a problem. This was the first time. So if it's over 85, I'd water it in. Otherwise, probably not.


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## Khy (Jul 27, 2018)

Are the percentages and such on the K4L stuff similar to RGS in terms of the amounts of fulvic, humic, etc.? I've tried to find a label for it on their site but haven't seen anything in terms of % rates at the recommended dilution rates.


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## Drewmey (Oct 3, 2018)

Keep in mind that the powder mixture you are using has different rates of each (Humic/Fulvic/Kelp/Amino).

For example, the Extreme blend is is 70% amino powder, 10% fulvic powder, 10% humic powder, 10% kelp powder. On top of that, the amino powder is 50% amino acids, fulvic powder is 75% fulvic acid, the humic powder is 80% humic acid and the kelp powder is 100% kelp. So in my opinion it is really 35% amino acids, 8% humic acid, 7.5% fulvic acid, and 10% kelp. I do not feel lawns are a good application for this product as it will likely be insufficient levels of humic/fulvic/kelp. Probably wouldn't want to up the dosage to counteract that because the amino acids are a 14-0-0 NPK. Sprayed foliarly, I could imagine that plus the kelp causing some yellowing or burnout at really high dosages at certain temperature conditions.

I am currently trying out a pound of the Humic/Fulvic/Kelp blend. They have told me that it is a 1/3 split across the board. Therefore it is ((1/3)*.8)=26.67% Humic Acid +((1/3)*.75)=25% Fulvic Acid + 33.33% Kelp. With my 5,000sf lawn, I do not like to use concentrates more than I need that day, so I directly mix the powder into an old milk jug half full with hot water. Shake vigorously before pouring into my sprayer tank. My first try was with a relatively low dose, so not to much input on whether high dose will clog a sprayer but no problems thus far.

As far as mimicking the dosage of RGS, the picture below is what I am going to be using to get roughly 4%-4%-4% active ingredient (really more like 3.9%H-3.85%F-4.15%K) vs. the RGS giving you 6%-3%-3%. You could buy extra humic to add to the blend (or buy all three separately and blend yourself) but I feel this is close enough for some testing.

Rates:


Calcs:


Cost/gallon or cost/sf with a set dosage depends heavily on the amount of powder that you buy. I think I remember calculating that buying 1 lbs was similarly priced to RGS in terms of lbs/$. So I wouldn't go that route if strictly doing it for cost savings. Buying 5 lbs on the other hand was much cheaper in terms of lbs/$ of active ingredient.

At 5,000sf, it looks like I will get about 3.5 - 7 uses out of 1 lbs. This should get me through 3/4 of a 'lawn' year (as I would use less often if using a higher dosage and I don't intend to be out apply in the snow during 3-4 months of winter). If I like it, I'll buy 5 lbs which will last me a long time.

No word yet on whether this is equal or inferior to RGS. And quite frankly, I won't be the one to be able to answer that question. The quality of the Humic may play a role and I am of the understanding that humic acid, as far as its structure(?) can vary in size. So some products might be more effective than others. I have also heard that GCF are reacting the humic to make it more available to the soil vs granular humic. Although I don't understand if that reaction is different than the reaction with potassium that these powder vendors are using to make it soluble (hence the 0-0-4 NPK).


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## Ahab1997 (Jun 30, 2018)

Strong first post, I must say.

If anyone wants to set up a controlled study (similar to Allyn Hane's experiment he's running now) between the proposed K4L alternative and RGS, that would be very interesting.


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## Liledgy (Aug 21, 2018)

I just got around to mixing/applying some of the k4l extreme blend. I mixed 8oz with a half gallon of water and it is Was THICK. As others stated, the humic isn't really a powder its much more course. Before pouring it in a hose end sprayer I strained it with a harbor freight paint strainer. The first 32oz sprayed ok, but I had to start and stop the hose end sprayer to keep it from clogging. When I poured in the second half of concentrate, the strainer-funnel was completely packed with what appeared to be humic (brown). 
Next time I will try and let it dilute overnight to see if the extreme blend mix breaks down more into a liquid. Using a paint mixer with a drill didn't seem to mix it up enough.


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## Khy (Jul 27, 2018)

Ahab1997 said:


> Strong first post, I must say.
> 
> If anyone wants to set up a controlled study (similar to Allyn Hane's experiment he's running now) between the proposed K4L alternative and RGS, that would be very interesting.


This would indeed be interesting. That said, I think it'd have to be a multi-year study on controlled plots. As even if there's say a 20% quality differential it likely wouldn't show for years, if ever or at least there's be no easy quantifiable way to test for it.

I guess in theory, Humic is supposed to assist in raising CEC levels. You could mix plots in like a 98% sand soil, get soil tests done on each plot (should all be very low CEC) and then continue application from there and see how your CECs adjust year over year.

Obviously there's other things that humic helps with but I'm thinking from a sheer numbers standpoint of "THIS ACTUALLY WORKS" you'd have to do that. So it'd take some funding for sure. As for it to be a 'proper' study you'd probably need like 2 controls, 2 K4L and 2 GCF. Just to ensure there's not some weird scenario where one of the plots somehow develops more organic matter than the other.

So you're talking like... 6 soil tests probably twice a year and then dosing of K4L and GCF on whatever schedule you come up with (probably heavy for the sake of the test showing results faster?). And then from there just a simple matter of coming up with a very basic fertilization program and seeing how the soil tests vary. See if K4L, GCF separate themselves from the control in terms of nutrient availability and CEC/OM. And see if either of them separates from the other as well.


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