# MY PLAN - i keep debating with myself



## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

First thing- I'm in Maryland. We've had a warm summer with a decent amount of rain but nothing crazy like last year. My area seemed to miss alot of the storms so we're probably borderline dry this year. I have about an acre to 1 1/2 acres. I'm going to split between the front and back yards.

I have different needs in both but I'm torn as to what to do.

Front yard-this part of the yard is thin with a ton of weeds. I've worked with Tric4 this year to get rid of a lot. So this fall I'd like to overseed but I also want to put a pre-em down to make the weeds better next year. What should I do? I've also heard great things about the nitrogen blitz and wanted to try that?

So my initial plan right now is lay down the pre-em and do the nitrogen blitz and overseed in the spring. What do you think?
Thinking of use Prodamine and liquid urea for the nitrogen

back yard-This lawn in a little thicker....weeds are there but not as prevelant as the front yard. There are good sized patches back here that need seeded. Is it possible to put the nitrogen down in places and seed in other places?

Last question- side yard- we sodded a portion and weeds are trickling in already. What should I do with this sections?
We also have to move some of the sod in the next month to a different location. Should I treat that with anything this fall/early winter?

Thanks so much for your input. It's tough because I want quick results but I read different things everywhere I go


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Fescue doesn't spread like KBG. I would seed. A thick stand of grass helps to reduce the amount of weeds. You can also spray mesotrione and ethofumesate when seeding fescue. That'll stop the weeds. You can do 2 apps of each and before winter, use prodiamine. Then, early next spring, again with prodiamine. You'll have very few, if any, weeds. Probably only grassy types.

If you don't want to get fancy with the herbicides, just seed this fall. Be sure to rough up the surface prior to seeding and use a roller to press the seed into the soil. You'll have a great lawn and in early spring, use a pre-emergent like prodiamine for summer weeds. It won't be perfect but it's the cheaper route.

If you have areas where there is enough grass and you feel you don't need to seed, spray herbicides to kill the weeds. Most herbicides have reseed intervals of a few weeks. Weeds will always grow if there is opportunity. Remove that opportunity with thick grass and pre-emergent. It's not perfect so you will have to spray weeds on occasion.


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

thats great. That way I can do both!So timing wise, would you

-spray both the herbicides in one treatment/combine?
-spray before I seed or after?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

mpoland33 said:


> thats great. That way I can do both!So timing wise, would you
> 
> -spray both the herbicides in one treatment/combine?
> -spray before I seed or after?


I combine them and spray together. They are soil applied so I don't use any adjuvants. I seed first, roll it, then spray. Last, if you want, top with peat moss. Then water but just until wet, not runoff.


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> mpoland33 said:
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> > thats great. That way I can do both!So timing wise, would you
> ...


one more question, would you nix the nitrogen all together this year then? or still lay it down?


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

I've been looking at those 2 herbicides and can't seem to find them by that name. I found Tenacity for the mesotrione, but havent found anything for the other.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

mpoland33 said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
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You don't need it at the time you seed. Once the grass grows a couple inches, I would put it out. Also, you should mow it at that point, even if it only cuts a small amount off the top. I would put out fertilizer 2 weeks later again. The young plant will do well with fertilizer to help push it to get big. Have you done a soil test? If not, I would use a starter fertilizer for the first one, something like 24-25-5. Put 0.5 lbs of N and you need to calculate how much that would be based on which fertilizer you choose and the property size. Then switch to regular synthetic fert 2 weeks later. Something like 29-0-5 at 0.5 lbs N, again calculating the amount needed. At this point, it'll be sometime in October and I would do it once more. It'll be thick and lush for Halloween! Oh, and mow it often. It helps with tillering (more leaves per plant). I usually keep it around 2" for fall but up to you on your preference. If you scalped it for seeding, this is easy. I do mow it taller in mid to late summer though as I don't irrigate.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

mpoland33 said:


> I've been looking at those 2 herbicides and can't seem to find them by that name. I found Tenacity for the mesotrione, but havent found anything for the other.


Here. Best to use a desktop and not their mobile version site.


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> mpoland33 said:
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Sorry, I have no idea why I'm just seeing this. Okay let me see if I can put all this together so I'm understanding in order.

First week or so of September, seed, spray spray mesotrione and ethofumesate, two weeks later use a starter fertilizer...the next week use mesotrione and ethofumesate again for the 2nd app. The next week nitrogen application.....2 weeks later nitrogen application....then early November use Prodamine.....

Sound right? I'm nervous to mix things I shouldnt...do you think these will be good?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

mpoland33 said:


> First week or so of September, seed, spray spray mesotrione and ethofumesate, two weeks later use a starter fertilizer...the next week use mesotrione and ethofumesate again for the 2nd app. The next week nitrogen application.....2 weeks later nitrogen application....then early November use Prodamine.....
> 
> Sound right? I'm nervous to mix things I shouldnt...do you think these will be good?


Week 1: Prep, seed, roll, mesotrione and ethofumesate
Week 2: Germination
Week 4: Fertilizer (I would go with 0.5lbs N/M and repeat every 2 weeks until early Nov. Be sure to use Urea or AMS, and maybe for this first one, use 10-10-10 or similar) and Ethofumesate (2-3 weeks after germination, you can wait until week 5 if you want)
Week 6: Mesotrione (4 weeks after germination), Fert
Week 8: Fert
Week 10: Prodiamine (60 days after germination), Fert

Example and what I do:
Week 1, Sept 1: Prep, seed, roll, mesotrione and ethofumesate
Week 4, Sept 22: Fert, ethofumesate
Week 6, Oct 6: Fert, mesotrione
Week 8, Oct 20: Fert
Oct 27: Spray foliar iron in front yard for extra dark for Halloween
Week 10, Nov 3: Fert, prodiamine

That's it for the year. MD prohibits fert at Nov 15. Anyway, it isn't growing much at this point. This has stopped all my poa-a and almost all weeds. In the early spring maybe early to mid April, put out prodiamine again to stop summer weeds. You'll be amazed how great the lawn will look. I would also do some light spring fertilizing.


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

This is fantastic. Thank you so much for taking all this time to help me out. I'm going to see what happens. I'm excited.

Why does MD prohibit fert in November? I had never heard of that


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

on the fertilizer end..would something like drexel AMS supreme work? I'm looking for something that is liquid and couldn't find urea liquid


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

mpoland33 said:


> This is fantastic. Thank you so much for taking all this time to help me out. I'm going to see what happens. I'm excited.
> 
> Why does MD prohibit fert in November? I had never heard of that


No fert after Nov 15. Its on the umd website. I guess they passed the law to reduce runoff into the Chesapeake Bay. Probably too many algae blooms.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

mpoland33 said:


> on the fertilizer end..would something like drexel AMS supreme work? I'm looking for something that is liquid and couldn't find urea liquid


I think that is for mixing with herbicides. I wouldn't buy that just to spray AMS. 1 gal contains 3.4 lbs of AMS. Go to rural king and get a 50 lbs bag of spray grade AMS for $12. You just add water and bingo, sprayable AMS. Though, if you want to use it as fertilizer, I would buy granular. Easy to spread and you don't have to rinse off the leaf tissue like you do for spraying AMS.


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> mpoland33 said:
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> > on the fertilizer end..would something like drexel AMS supreme work? I'm looking for something that is liquid and couldn't find urea liquid
> ...


THis is going to sound dumb and probably is, haha..but granular I would have to use a spreader right? I have between 1 and 2 acres and I only have the pull behind spray tank. I'm just using it as a fert


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

mpoland33 said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
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Yeah. Granular would have to use a spreader. You can't spray it since it doesn't dissolve well or has small lumps or clay which will clog a sprayer.

No dumb questions! Better to be sure.

If you can only spray, then head to rural king. It's a lot and it's cheap. A bit of a hike but worth it. It's also spray grade so it is free of dirt or other stuff and it is ground up small so it dissolves quickly in water. The one big problem with spraying high amounts of AMS is you have to water it in quickly. You can damage the grass if you spray it and leave it since the grass will absorb it through the leaves. You need to rinse it off.

Otherwise, you could spray low amounts of AMS but do it once a week instead. I'm not super knowledgeable on foliar maintained lawns. I guess you could spray maybe 1/8 lbs N/M with plenty of carrier to start. If the grass doesn't look sad after, maybe try upping to 1/4 lbs N/M. It'll get risky at some point. If you have a super big tank, you could use tons of carrier and spray a higher amount and probably be ok.


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

also, the label on AMS I just read says do not apply under stress. We havent had rain in weeks- I know I'm not spraying until next month- but I'm assuming brown grass would constitute stress right?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

mpoland33 said:


> also, the label on AMS I just read says do not apply under stress. We havent had rain in weeks- I know I'm not spraying until next month- but I'm assuming brown grass would constitute stress right?


AMS is N which tells the plant to grow. If it isn't thick and green, it's stressed. Brown is definitely stressed. The more you tell the plant to grow, the more it needs of all the other nutrients including water and sun.


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

Hello again,
I'm wondering if by these pictures, what do you think about the lawn being too stressed to start seed, spray, and nitrogen




I'm heading to Front Royal this week to buy some AMS


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

I will say that SOME of the brown is from my using the weed killer a couple months ago...and it has rained some lately.


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## Rp9110 (Feb 18, 2019)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> mpoland33 said:
> 
> 
> > First week or so of September, seed, spray spray mesotrione and ethofumesate, two weeks later use a starter fertilizer...the next week use mesotrione and ethofumesate again for the 2nd app. The next week nitrogen application.....2 weeks later nitrogen application....then early November use Prodamine.....
> ...


Awesome looking plan and I'm also a Marylander. May have to follow a similar plan, Picking up some seed (link below) later this week.

https://themillofbelair.com/products/bel-air-3-way-tall-fescue-grass-seed?variant=7568035741732


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

@Rp9110 Looks like good, clean seed!


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## Rp9110 (Feb 18, 2019)

@Suburban Jungle Life

Picked it up and it ended up being a slightly different mix. Still looks pretty good though.



http://www.mdturfcouncil.org/resources/Documents/TT-77%20Recommended%20Turf%20Cultivars%20For%20Certified%20Sod%20Production%20And%20Seed%20Mixtures%20in%20Maryland%202019.pdf


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> @Rp9110 Looks like good, clean seed!


With it being so hot and me being away on my week 3, I decided to wait to seed until this week (probably after our 94 degree Thursday

On your previous post, you mentioned using 10-10-10 this first fert. Would it be okay to use the AMS? I ask because I went to Rural King and loaded up on AMS so I think I have plenty more than I need so wanted to use it

Also, on week 4 when I fert and spray the E, am I able to combine those in the same spray?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

@mpoland33 In my neck of the woods, every soil test has shown to be very low in P and K. You could just spray the AMS but that's only N. Have you done a soil test? New grass likes P. Kinda interesting that you prefer spraying. I think you can get liquid P and K but it's gonna cost more than granular and you'll probably have to get it online. You can mix AMS and ethofumesate if you want. Keep in mind, if you spray AMS, use a low rate or water the grass after. Not sure how you will water 2.5A but maybe time it before it rains? If you use a higher rate, you could brown the whole lawn.


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

just saw this. Thanks so much. So I bought the AMS. I only have a sprayer AND I have a combo aerator/seeder pull behind. Would the pull behind work? If so, what setting/number woud I use on it? If that's the case too, what would you use for P and K for new lawns? When we were doing our week by week, would the P and K take the place of the Fertilizer?


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## Methodical (May 3, 2018)

mpoland33 said:


> This is fantastic. Thank you so much for taking all this time to help me out. I'm going to see what happens. I'm excited.
> 
> Why does MD prohibit fert in November? I had never heard of that


Below is a link to information on the MD fertilizer law that took affect in 2013. FYI. Professionals can apply fertilizers just beyond the November 15th date.

I use the November 15th date to apply my last 46-0-0 app.

Note: the info provided in the thread is good. I always go for thicker lawn as my 1st option as it will help choke out the weeds, especially with KBG, but TTTF poses a different challenge since it doesn't spread like KBG, so you have to make a choice sometimes - overseed or treat for weeds - and walk a thinner line.

https://mda.maryland.gov/Pages/fertilizer.aspx


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## Naidu (Aug 25, 2019)

If you are in Maryland you can pick up 4TH MILLENNIUM from http://newsomseed.com/ (Local)50 pounds is ~100$.


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