# Columbus, OH ***, FF, TTTF: Fix & Beef up



## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Started earlier this year, starting point (patchy and weedy):



Also, this happens 5 -10 times a year in the back and kills all the grass and moss has taken root, plan on bringing in topsoil and regrading, then making a spot for water to sit that is not bare dirt. Need to cut down two trees, so no reason to let that kill all the hard work, so next year:





(YES, THERE IS A GOOSE IN OUR TEMP POND)

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Milorganite in early May, aerated in late May, company I used tore up large patches of grass going too fast and turning quickly:







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Dealing with (still) unknown dead patches (working on identifying cause) and what might be creeping bent grass.






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Current state (better than last fall when I got it):



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This week hand pulled all the (probably) creeping bent grass, topsoil + starter fertilizer + seed. Given the rain we have had and is forecasted, I overseeded the front and back yard to see if they can't take root (seed is cheap).


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Looks like you've been busy. What seed did you use?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Fun project!


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> Looks like you've been busy. What seed did you use?


Probably the wrong kind  seemed to have the right mix for what my lawn already has..


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

small amounts, but the weed and other seed is annoying crap that can certainly lead to larger percentages of annoyance because they dominate the good grass. could be nothing though.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

kolbasz said:


> small amounts, but the weed and other seed is annoying crap that can certainly lead to larger percentages of annoyance because they dominate the good grass. could be nothing though.


I did a spot spray of Tenacity last night over the bare spots and edges where the "Creeping Bent grass" likely still has some hold. I tried to go a foot out from the visible patch, but as I looked again it seems it was starting to go wider. Hopefully the Tenacity will keep the weeds at bay and kill off any remaining Creeping Bent grass.

Need to do a fungus spray this week, but waiting on the blu dye from Amazon. We have had amazing rain all spring and summer, sadly I did not know that means I should have sprayed for fungus to keep it at bay. Lesson learned, lots fo dead spots middle of the lawn now...


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

New hillbilly lawn stripping kit.



Two weeks after Milo application:







As you can see, there is a nice turn as everyone from our street has to go in and out (dead end, we at the front for about 30 houses). I maximized stripping so that the sun is directly behind as they turn the corner to come home after work  The neighbor before me help create a "dramatic" effect.

Got massive germination only days later. Rushed it to take advantage of the storms, didn't even need to water!











Problems:

Milo, heavy rain, hot hot hot, and high humidity = that weird white stuff. I hear it "harmless" and the high heat should allow it to dry out and die. Can anyone confirm?









I believe the brown patch is dead from fungal spray, but it did some massive damage... uggg:

















Another round of fungal spray and tenacity in 3 weeks.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Looks like I will be doing a heavy fall overseeding for all the dead patches...


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would not do tenacity or more nitrogen until those patches start to recover and our heat lowers.

Nitrogen will push for grow which will require more water in addition to the water the plant is using to "cool" down from the heat. The leafs "sweat". The sweat then is moisture that allows the fungus to grow. Since you already have fungus, I think it is best to avoid more problems with extra nitrogen. I do apply a small amount(0.20lb/M) of nitrogen to my damaged areas, but it is a very fast acting one. Fast acting allows some control instead of slow release.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

g-man said:


> I would not do tenacity or more nitrogen until those patches start to recover and our heat lowers.
> 
> Nitrogen will push for grow which will require more water in addition to the water the plant is using to "cool" down from the heat. The leafs "sweat". The sweat then is moisture that allows the fungus to grow. Since you already have fungus, I think it is best to avoid more problems with extra nitrogen. I do apply a small amount(0.20lb/M) of nitrogen to my damaged areas, but it is a very fast acting one. Fast acting allows some control instead of slow release.


For clarity, by nitrogen you mean the Milo? That was applied 2 weeks ago before I knew I had those issues... and/or knew better :shock:

Does Tenacity impact nitrogen?

My understanding is that those patches won't grow back and I need to patch and reseed?

So much I don't understand... so sorry for all the questions. It is why I am here.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Milo, cracked corn, or synthetic, any form of nitrogen going forward. Let the lawn recover with the nitrogen it has before additional nitrogen.

Tenacity does not impact nitrogen. Tenacity is a herbicide and with the heat/fungus it could cause more damage to a stress lawn. Hence why I think you should hold off until things improve.

Sometimes the patches recover. The main goal now is for them not to spread/grow.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

That was what I thought, but hate to assume anything at this point.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Seem to have stabilized the brown patch. Have one more fungaside application to go. We have gotten pretty decent rain so grass still thick and growing.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Question, should I clean out all the dead grass and leave bare with the hope the good grass starts filling in or leave the dead grass until I'm ready to overseed?

Luckily we have had so much rain in this heat given I out the Milo down before I got your guys excellent feedback not to... :lol:


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

steensn said:


> New hillbilly lawn stripping kit.


 :lol: I tried striping with rebar attached. I put my rebar in a pvc pipe, so it was a hillbilly deluxe model. It looks like yours worked much better than mine :thumbup:


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

social port said:


> steensn said:
> 
> 
> > New hillbilly lawn stripping kit.
> ...


Sounds too fancy for me 

This is actually working really well. It's a lot of metal... not sure how much you used.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Yeah, I can see that it is working for you. Even more impressive is that you are getting those results with, I'm guessing, a sub$15 investment.

I used only 1 piece of rebar. Looks like you've tripled that.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Sub-$10, it was the 24" bar from Home Depot. I used 4 of them and cut to length (not a 24" deck). Drill a few holes in the guard and ziptied it in. It is pretty heavy. Only issue is going backwards, it drags underneath but not far enough to hit anything.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Was gone for 1.5 weeks and forgot to turn irrigation off from the light settings I had for keeping new seed wet (3x day in from yard for 20 min). While everyone else's yard is going dormant... mine it in power mode. Did a real fast hand aerator on some harder areas I could feel. Here are some shots PRE-cut (will be out tomorrow).









Got some nutsedge



Reseeding going well in the shady spot. It's been 90's for three weeks basically... so the section in the direct sun is not great.







Seeding from earlier in the year(new b-ball hoop) looking great other than the white from previous Tenacity application:





I need to do another application of fungaside after I mow, 2/3 applications. Some of the smaller areas have recovered a bit bit will need to do a big reseeding for fall. Given the temps and results from full sun spot, I assume I can't start fall reno till early Sept.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

I'm also not 100% sure I have a full tttf lawn. Seems to be a mix of tttf, Fine fescue and Perenial rye. Fine fescue dominates the heavily shaded backyard, transitioning to tttf and rye in the front. But I have no idea at this point...

New seeding:





Shaded section:





Full sun section:







Did second of three (recommended) PROPICONAZOLE fungaside on Sat; cocktail also included liquid aerate, blue marking dye, and Tenacity @50% than normal application. First time with blue marking dye, I can't imagine I ever did a lawn spray correctly without it... showed pretty fast how poorly I covered the lawn before. It did a great job putting color on the fungus dead spots


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Finally got out Google Earth, mapped out the sections in my yard into 1,000 sq/ft areas.


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## Creel (Jul 2, 2018)

I did the hillbilly striper tonight too haha.
Your lawn is looking like the one I inherited a couple months ago, in regards to the different mixes in certain areas. I'm hoping an overseed of either full KBG or KBG/PRG in the fall can help make everything more thick and full like my last lawn. Anyways though the lawn is looking great.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Cool, yeah, not too far away either. My first (rookie) thought was just to get it healthy and green. Then work on improving the mix. I already have the best lawn on the block with just that goal, but I want it to jump full perfection if I can. Lots of work to do, but it'll get there


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## Creel (Jul 2, 2018)

Yeah same here. I've been trying to at least see if can keep it green and work on getting the soil somewhat good for fall aeration, overseed, and peat moss with some leveling in some areas. I figure if it can grow grass now once I get it all fixed it should become a bit easier to keep it looking good.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

#cantwait



Three days since the cocktail spray seems to be doing magic on the weeds. Creeping bentgrass is all almost dust (mostly from first application) and new nutsedge/others turning white as snow. That stuff is amazing.


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## Creel (Jul 2, 2018)

Can't wait to see how those work out for you. I've been debating ordering those but since on previous lawn just milorganite did so well I keep leaning towards that.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Creel said:


> Can't wait to see how those work out for you. I've been debating ordering those but since on previous lawn just milorganite did so well I keep leaning towards that.


Still working on the plan. I am going to start tracking as recommended in the "Cool Season Guide" so will put together the spreadsheet this weekend. Then put together application plan rest of year for the new additions and the rest.

Still trying to figure out if I should do urea this fall if I plan on overseeding heavily to repair the dead spots.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Weather forecast is looking great for growing grass so I'm taking advantage. Not thrilled with my mix from before, so overseeding with some higher % fescue should help.



Pulled all the dead spots (my yard never really went into hibernation), thatch and roots all hand pulled with kids help. LOTS of dead spots...

Went to Home Depot, got topsoil w/starter fert (worked well for me in the past, though $7 per bag vs $2 per bag for non-fert version seems suspicious) and seed. They restocked Milo, so of course I stocked up 



I hand laid all the topsoil first on every bare spot. Then hand laid the seed, followed up with a hand mix of the soil and seed to ensure soil contact. Yes, that was a LONG process.









Lot more there than what the pictures show. Took the remaining seed and threw it down in the front yard as I would for overseeding, then used some leftover contractors mix in the backyard (not focus till next year).



Finally, I threw down some start fert I have used in the past I like, little lightetr rate than normal.



Now I just wait as the irrigation system runs a LIGHT schedule just to moisten the new seed.


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## Powhatan (Dec 15, 2017)

steensn said:


> Went to Home Depot, got topsoil w/starter fert (worked well for me in the past, though $7 per bag vs $2 per bag for non-fert version seems suspicious) and seed. They restocked Milo, so of course I stocked up


@steensn - $7 per bag for Scotts LawnSoil is the same price also around here. I was thinking of buying a few of these.

I've read mixed reviews of people finding foreign items in the bags. What's been your experience?

This person found a hose clamp:

https://photos-us.bazaarvoice.com/photo/2/cGhvdG86aG9tZWRlcG90/63e33110-1cf9-5f6c-9eac-1343f21a4e04

https://homedepot.ugc.bazaarvoice.com/profiles/1999aa/6hw83fk3o4e1zu42o8l3wwjou/profile.htm


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Powhatan said:


> @steensn - $7 per bag for Scotts LawnSoil is the same price also around here. I was thinking of buying a few of these.
> 
> I've read mixed reviews of people finding foreign items in the bags. What's been your experience?
> 
> ...


In total this year I've bought about 10 bags, hand dropped all of it. Most I've found is stocks and mulch pieces, nothing worse. My issue is I'm not sure the $2 a bag top soil + adding my own fert isnt cheaper. But I like the convenience and it seems to have great results for my yard under heavy watering


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## bellts02 (Apr 16, 2018)

Might i ask what in the hell is going on in the picture where a person is head down in a hole, and appears to be installing a bball goal? Theres so much going on there that needs explaining.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

bellts02 said:


> Might i ask what in the hell is going on in the picture where a person is head down in a hole, and appears to be installing a bball goal? Theres so much going on there that needs explaining.


Ha! Those are my kids diggIng the hole for the b-ball hoop. Took them all day and by the time they got to the bottom they decided it was better for my older daughter to hold onto my son and have him dig the bottom by hand instead of a shovel... it was pouring rain so they basically were just grabbing slop at that point.

They destroyed the grass around it...

Was so funny we couldn't help but take a picture of it.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Mowed today, all the rain we got and watering for the seeding made my lawn go nuts again. Missed a mow... oops.







Lawn is getting SUPER thick! Closeups of a few sections of the yard.







Overall, the spots where we pulled the dead grass, topsoil, seeded, peat missed, and watered have started to push in, some germination too.



Depending on rain I have scheduled the next few days to get RGS down, Milo, and Scott's disease control. Rain and watering for seeding should do well for these.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@steensn, it looks good...

But I'm trying to understand your lawn composition. You mention TTTF in the title, but you keep buying seed mixes with a lot of FF and PR. I'm a bit confused as to what types of grass you have in which areas.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Green said:


> @steensn, it looks good...
> 
> But I'm trying to understand your lawn composition. You mention TTTF in the title, but you keep buying seed mixes with a lot of FF and PR. I'm a bit confused as to what types of grass you have.


I'm confused too.. why I keep changing it after someone tells me what I have (see previous post asking). It seems I have sections of each depending on the sun/shade . I bought the wrong seed the first time, so I overseeded with TTTF and KBG this last round with seed I used the time before. I'll be cutting down the big tree in the front, it has ash bore in it and dying like all the other ash trees in the area. That should give me a mostly sun yard and I'll have to go sun mix fully.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

steensn said:


> I'm confused too.. why I keep changing it after someone tells me what I have (see previous post asking). It seems I have sections of each depending on the sun/shade . I bought the wrong seed the first time, so I overseeded with TTTF and KBG this last round with seed I used the time before. I'll be cutting down the big tree in the front, it has ash bore in it and dying like all the other ash trees in the area. That should give me a mostly sun yard and I'll have to go sun mix fully.


Because of your location, I'm sure you have a good amount of TTTF, but I'm not sure I can see any in the closeups. There also appears to be a lot of KBG and some PR and FF. Assuming there's a lot of TTTF already, you can't go wrong using TTTF and KBG, especially in sunny areas.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Green said:


> steensn said:
> 
> 
> > I'm confused too.. why I keep changing it after someone tells me what I have (see previous post asking). It seems I have sections of each depending on the sun/shade . I bought the wrong seed the first time, so I overseeded with TTTF and KBG this last round with seed I used the time before. I'll be cutting down the big tree in the front, it has ash bore in it and dying like all the other ash trees in the area. That should give me a mostly sun yard and I'll have to go sun mix fully.
> ...


I've been talking with the Hogan guys, they are awesome, and I'll be getting a great mix from them after a month or so for the fall and next year. Should start to move away from anything PR and solidify likely just the two.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Agreed. It browns out bad in the heat in full and near full sun areas. Bob Hogan gave me the same advice. And he strongly believes in heavily using TTTF for most Northern and transition areas. A little PR goes a long way in mixes. You can add in FF in really shaded areas. I would save the mixes with FF for that purpose.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@steensn the lawn is really coming together. Good color and thick, thick, thick. Looks great :thumbup:


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Green said:


> Agreed. It browns out bad in the heat in full and near full sun areas. Bob Hogan gave me the same advice. And he strongly believes in heavily using TTTF for most Northern and transition areas. A little PR goes a long way in mixes. You can add in FF in really shaded areas. I would save the mixes with FF for that purpose.


Always learning, what I wouldn't give to go back a few months and tell my "younger" self a few tips...


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

As part of the midday watering, I threw down the first batch of RGS. Lessons learned, using the ortho end sprayer I found constantly changing rates of application. One 1,000 ft section is chugged out in 30 seconds, the other it took 5 minutes. Could be user error... but will have to have some more time to play with it.

Milo down as well.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Dropped some Air8 and Microgreene down tonight. Let's see what it's got!


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Got down the Humic12 tonight! Doing them all seperate got me some good practice on the ortho end sprayer, feels like I have it down finally in my different sections.



One thing I noticed, I had put some Microgreene early (last week) on a hydrangea earlier in the year that looked almost dead (laid over, roasted from the sun). Today the leaves and stems are totally transformed! Strong, perky, up off the ground. I don't believe anything is magic... but miracle grow and water was barely keeping it alive. Flowers still toast... but on the right track.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Mowed the backyard today for the first time in three weeks. It gets almost no sun, if I mow it more than every few weeks it is matted and doesn't cut. It's SUPER thin, but from far away and the right light it looks darn good 

I haven't put anything on this but some Milo, disease control, and starter fert with seed. Two trees on the left will come down in spring, then we'll drop some topsoil and reseed. Fun for next year!



Lowered the HOC to 2.5" a little early. Tons of rain an irrigation, never had to deal with dormancy... but did cause some disease. So as I continue to water for reseeding I'm going a little lower to let air in.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

I'm going to start shootIng some squirrels... so my seeding was going great, then they started digging up the ground and killed all the germination!!!

So I say screw it, I'm going plugs. Next day, they tore out all the plugs and dried them out!!!



Started taking the height down to let airflow in. Some fungus came back... awesome.

How does anyone's lawn look perfect!?!?


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

So, I replugged the places where the stupid squirrels dig them all up, added a pretty heavy amount of plugs. Hope this is a better approach than seeding.

I did a Humic/air8 spray on all the bare spots, lawn seems to be filling in nicely. Why was completely bare spots a month or so ago is almost filled in:



There are surely some spots that need to fill in still... I had a heck of a fungus problem. May need to do some plugs on the larger patches. But overall, filling in nicely. Cut today, snapped a quick (non-cleaned) pic while I was mowing. I have reduced HOC to 2.5"



I have noticed some thatch buildup and have purchased some N-Ext D-Thatch to start a program around that on top of the other N-Ext products I have. I want to leave all the nitrogen from the dead grass on the lawn, so I will be trying this. Also nabbed some kelp/fish mix to add to my sprays as an extra booster.

I am scheduled to make another run of N-Ext applications next week as I did prior.

Will be buying Urêa this week to try my first nitrogen boost to help fill in the lawn this fall. Gonna be bananas!!!


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Got a new toy! Super easy to put it, took about 30 Mon to replace the old one. Love the app!


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Did all the N-Ext product today with a quick water in afterwards with the RainMachine. Rainmachine allows you to make some fancy cycles fast and easy. Did a quick 6-10 depending on zone and selected two cycles per zone. Automatically splits it to 3-5 each and lets it soak in a bit in between cycles.

KHB plugs starting to spread and establish where my failed seeding took place. Wish I knew about plugging earlier this year 

Off to grab Urea so I'm ready for the fall Nitrogen blitz!


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Almost down to 2", few more cuts and I'll drop it all the way down. Also, all the sidewalks and driveway are now fully power washed. Next spring we'll need to do a big landscaping remodel after trees come down... looking ugly!


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

I broke something...

Front lawn.



By street


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@steensn your lawn is looking phenomenal, IMO.
When I see spots like the ones above, I investigate
Heat stress
Lack of water
Disease
Grubs

Based on those photos I lean towards 1 and 2, but that is best treated as a guess without further info.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Good feedback. We've had tons of rain, so much I even turned off irrigation. We had a cool down, I fertilized with a fert I've never used B4, and then we unexpectedly jumped up to 85-90 for a week. I'm mildly confident that it was bad timing on heat and fert app. The *** held out fine, some of the PR that filled in this summer took a beating as well as some weeds (bright side).


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

steensn said:


> bellts02 said:
> 
> 
> > Might i ask what in the hell is going on in the picture where a person is head down in a hole, and appears to be installing a bball goal? Theres so much going on there that needs explaining.





steensn said:


> Ha! Those are my kids diggIng the hole for the b-ball hoop. ... Was so funny we couldn't help but take a picture of it.


I'm so glad somebody else asked what that pic was about -- I couldn't figure it out either!



steensn said:


> I broke something... Front lawn.


Hmm. What have you applied to the lawn in the most recent 2 weeks?


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Fertilizer, N-Ext products (all 5), fungus control (last app of 3) w/fish kelp mixed in. One thing I noticed is the pattern I sprayed (three mower stripe) has a different level of green for some. One strip is crazy green, the other lighter. Tomorrow I'll look deeper to see if maybe the spots with more issues are in the lighter stripes where soemthing went wrong.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

I knew it!!! Just couldn't find the buggers little stupid things are now coming out on mass scale killing half my lawn!!! Grub killer goes out ASAP!


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Well, I left for a work trip in Europe for two week, had a guy mow for me while I'm out... and he basically scalped my lawn. This is bad... real bad. I'm not even sure if I should waste my time this year anymore. Maybe throw some milo down and start the year out next year right with the proper pre-emergence and fungus protection.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would not use Milo. Just spoon feeding of AS. It will be fine.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

g-man said:


> I would not use Milo. Just spoon feeding of AS. It will be fine.


I was also considering setting it all on fire and walking away...


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Perfect growing weather this week. Just feed it and it will be fine.


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Walmart with some deals on starter fert ($3.50) and urea ($5.50), loading up.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

steensn said:


> Well, I left for a work trip in Europe for two week, had a guy mow for me while I'm out... and he basically scalped my lawn. This is bad... real bad. I'm not even sure if I should waste my time this year anymore. Maybe throw some milo down and start the year out next year right with the proper pre-emergence and fungus protection.


That's how you learn! From now on you will always give any substitute mowing guy a target HOC, won't you!


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

Green said:


> steensn said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I left for a work trip in Europe for two week, had a guy mow for me while I'm out... and he basically scalped my lawn. This is bad... real bad. I'm not even sure if I should waste my time this year anymore. Maybe throw some milo down and start the year out next year right with the proper pre-emergence and fungus protection.
> ...


I did, problem was he didn't know what his true HOC actually was and when I saw his rig one side was sagging... it was so bad....


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## steensn (Jun 25, 2018)

So... this year was a great learning year. It all went to crap in the end though. Latest is a storm killer a tree, we brought in a arborist to clean it all up and found carpenter ants have basically eaten all the tree hollow. So we dropped 5 mature trees and DESTROYED the lawn. Next year... next year...


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