# Middle TN Reno



## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

Hi guys I have some questions about my upcoming renovation this fall. The first is about my tall fescue choice. I've been testing some in some containers the last few weeks. Here is what I've found.
1. Primetime tall fescue, burlingham seeds. Mix of bullseye, GTO, and Hot Rod. $64.99 a 50lb. Bag. (My only concern is the price is cheap for these varieties.) This is not a blue tag seed. Is this legit or probably something they just throw in from their warehouse..
2. Defiance xre with speedway, blackwatch 2, and grande 3. $80.00 a bag.
3. "Top Choice" tall fescue from co-op $80.00 a bag. Seems like a real fine slow grower. Alliance seeds..?

Also plan on double core aeration, seeding,, then slice seeding it with one pass into the soil. Starter fertilizer and lime. My question is after that do I use Tenacity on the bare soil? Or wait until the grass has germinated for a couple weeks?


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

I was also wanting some opinions on TSC brand groundworks tall fescue. I've tested this seed also and I have to say it germinates very quickly and looks pretty healthy. It consists of Garrison, speedway, and "VNS" (variety not stated). Does anyone know what the mystery seed could be? Is it a lower scoring ntep seed or would they possibly even put KY 31 in there!? Like I said for the price it's tempting and definitely germinates. Thoughts?


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Vols_fan08 said:


> Hi guys I have some questions about my upcoming renovation this fall. The first is about my tall fescue choice. I've been testing some in some containers the last few weeks. Here is what I've found.
> 1. Primetime tall fescue, burlingham seeds. Mix of bullseye, GTO, and Hot Rod. $64.99 a 50lb. Bag. (My only concern is the price is cheap for these varieties.) This is not a blue tag seed. Is this legit or probably something they just throw in from their warehouse..
> 2. Defiance xre with speedway, blackwatch 2, and grande 3. $80.00 a bag.
> 3. "Top Choice" tall fescue from co-op $80.00 a bag. Seems like a real fine slow grower. Alliance seeds..?
> ...


Speedway is one of the best fescues for the transition zone. See if you can get a bag of 100% Speedway. I think I have a picture of my Speedway reno 2 years ago.



Yep, I do. 30 days post renovation.

No need to core aerate at all. Just scalp, dethatch, broadcast the seed and cover with peat moss or grass clippings. Tenacity get sprayed right on top of the seed on the bare soil. I'd recommend spraying propiconazole right along with it to protect against fungus.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would spend the money in good seed. Long-term you will save money with less headaches (is. getting rid of poa trivia).


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

g-man said:


> I would spend the money in good seed. Long-term you will save money with less headaches (is. getting rid of poa trivia).


Wow that's some beautiful fescue. Thanks for the help gman I may just run on up to Hogan's in Nashville and get all speedway. So what did you put on after 30 days? Tenacity? Even though you do it at seeding?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Tenacity could be applied to the soil(prevent weeds) and as a foliar (kill weeds but not the young grass).

Therefore apply it at seed down and after germination until you could switch to common herbicides.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Vols_fan08 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > I would spend the money in good seed. Long-term you will save money with less headaches (is. getting rid of poa trivia).
> ...


I had to have Speedway special ordered directly from SRO. If Hogan has it or can order it for you, please let me know I want to buy some as well. Last year I couldn't get any because the entire crop had been badly contaminated with weed seed.

The Tenacity at seeding should hold the fort for 30 days. Don't spray Tenacity as post-emergent on fescue it will bleach real bad, KBG is far more tolerant. By the time you get to 30 days you should be close to being able to use regular herbicide.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

What's up, Vols_fan08. We're probably not far from one another, as I live 1-2 hours from Nashvegas. 
I know of the First Choice seed you mention, but so far I have not been able to learn much about it. I've used the 19-19-19 fertilizer from the coop several times. It is reasonably priced.
I will be purchasing seed from Hogan's as well this fall. I don't see Speedway listed on their website, but hopefully they can order it for you.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong: Should he not aim for 3 cultivars, especially given the fungal susceptibility of fescue in the region?


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

g-man said:


> Tenacity could be applied to the soil(prevent weeds) and as a foliar (kill weeds but not the young grass).
> 
> Therefore apply it at seed down and after germination until you could switch to common herbicides.


Roger, thanks


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

social port said:


> What's up, Vols_fan08. We're probably not far from one another, as I live 1-2 hours from Nashvegas.
> I know of the First Choice seed you mention, but so far I have not been able to learn much about it. I've used the 19-19-19 fertilizer from the coop several times. It is reasonably priced.
> I will be purchasing seed from Hogan's as well this fall. I don't see Speedway listed on their website, but hopefully they can order it for you.
> 
> Someone please correct me if I'm wrong: Should he not aim for 3 cultivars, especially given the fungal susceptibility of fescue in the region?


 Thats why I wandered if the trio seed from Burlingham would be better for fungus. I personally think the seed from co op is crap. I like their fert and lime though. I'm in Lawrenceburg area.


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> Vols_fan08 said:
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> > g-man said:
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Thanks I'll let you know what they say. Just out of curiosity how much was it when you ordered it from SRO a bag?


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Vols_fan08 said:


> Thanks I'll let you know what they say. Just out of curiosity how much was it when you ordered it from SRO a bag?


I went through SeedSuperStore, Drew was kind enough to order it for me. It was the same as the other cultivars he stocks, so you're looking at about $180 for 50lbs if you use him.


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> Vols_fan08 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks I'll let you know what they say. Just out of curiosity how much was it when you ordered it from SRO a bag?
> ...


Wow that's pretty expensive for round here. My cousin gets speedway and Grande 3 in Knoxville at a nursery for 100 a bag. But online shopping is what it is...


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Vols_fan08 said:


> Wow that's pretty expensive for round here. My cousin gets speedway and Grande 3 in Knoxville at a nursery for 100 a bag. But online shopping is what it is...


SSS is probably the most expensive place to buy seed, but it had to be special ordered and whatnot, there was none around me. I have located another online source, we'll see what the price, he is working on ordering it from SRO. Fescue seed is being harvested right now, so it should be fresh off the field :thumbup:

Oh, if you can find seed, buy it now. Don't linger too long, stocks are about to quickly get depleted as fall approaches.


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

So that brings up another question I have since Fall is approaching. What is everyone's opinion on transition zone seeding for TTTF. They day late summer early fall. I know here in southern middle Tennessee in early September it is still super hot and dry it seems these past few years. Still stick with around first week of September? Or actually wait until the first week of fall? Heck even October here doesn't feel like fall anymore &#128548;


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

I seeded first week of September last year, they forecasted nice 70s and rain and it ended up being in the 90s for a couple weeks straight with no rain. Of course, that meant heavy watering, which in turn meant heavy fungus, which wiped out my entire renovation. Moral of the story:

- Wait for the weather to actually cool off, so probably 2nd or 3rd week of September. 
- Weather forecasts beyond the next 2 days are pretty much useless.
- Apply fungicide at seeding time.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Use your judgment. The earlier you seed the more growth it can get in before winter. However if the weather is super hot, the seed will dry out quickly. TTTF germinates a lot faster than KBG and, if Tennessee is like Virginia, November has plenty of growing days. So you can afford to wait if it's still really hot. The seed will like the warm soil. Keeping the seed moist is the problem.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I will be prepared to reseed anytime after September 1st. However, I don't think I'll actually do it until at least mid September. Last year we had maybe three days of very light rain for the whole month. I recall temperature highs ranging from the mid 80s to upper 90s.
So I have an adaptive plan: reseed between 9/15-9/30 unless we have sustained cooler temperatures before then.


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

social port said:


> I will be prepared to reseed anytime after September 1st. However, I don't think I'll actually do it until at least mid September. Last year we had maybe three days of very light rain for the whole month. I recall temperature highs ranging from the mid 80s to upper 90s.
> So I have an adaptive plan: reseed between 9/15-9/30 unless we have sustained cooler temperatures before then.


I agree with you on the middle of September. Last year was horrible and dry. You could light a match in Tennessee and the whole state would burn. It seems like the summer came late this year as far as temps. So I figure the fall temps will be pushed back a little.


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

Okay guys need some opinions. I've got the yard killed and scalped for the most part. Still trying to get these Bermuda patches killed. I've got some low spots that need leveled with topsoil. I can get screened topsoil easily. Here's my worry about topsoil around here... Will it have Bermuda seed in it? After spending all this time erradicating what I already have then bringing it back in! What are yalls thoughts? Should I just till what I have here and try to level or take a chance on new weed seed?


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

I wouldn't worry too much about the topsoil having Bermuda seed in it. Even if it does it won't have enough time to established/ store carbs to make it through the winter dormancy.


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

J_nick said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about the topsoil having Bermuda seed in it. Even if it does it won't have enough time to established/ store carbs to make it through the winter dormancy.


Okay thanks!


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

Glad this salad bar is dead/dying


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## luderiffic (May 1, 2017)

I reno'd Labor Day Weekend last year and it went fine. It was hot and dry, but just kept it wet and it exploded. I used Titan RX TTTF and it turned out really well. Handled the heat this summer. About $70/bg at the local warehouse.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Vols_fan08 said:


> J_nick said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't worry too much about the topsoil having Bermuda seed in it. Even if it does it won't have enough time to established/ store carbs to make it through the winter dormancy.
> ...


There is also the matter of what your other options are. Topsoil is probably the best choice for the clay in our area, wouldn't you say?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Vols_fan08 said:


> Glad this salad bar is dead/dying


Crispy weeds. That's a lot of progress.
I'm really looking forward to seeing how that defiance turns out.


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

luderiffic said:


> I reno'd Labor Day Weekend last year and it went fine. It was hot and dry, but just kept it wet and it exploded. I used Titan RX TTTF and it turned out really well. Handled the heat this summer. About $70/bg at the local warehouse.


Thanks for the motivation :thumbup: I was gonna go with Titan RX but it's $90 a bag here.. I couldn't find much info on ntep about how it scored. It looks like pretty grass from all the pics on their site tho.


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

social port said:


> Vols_fan08 said:
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> > J_nick said:
> ...


I think so. My thing is, you know these nurseries bought this topsoil from a construction company that pulled it out of a ditch and screened it more than likely. :roll: probably Bermuda and all kinds of nasty stuff lol. Just makes me think


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

social port said:


> Vols_fan08 said:
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> 
> > Glad this salad bar is dead/dying
> ...


I am too SP. What did you end up going with? I know we are both looking at mid September.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Vols_fan08 said:


> social port said:
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> > Vols_fan08 said:
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 Turbo, firecracker, and Cochise 4. Still need to order when I get some reliable free time.


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

Hey guys, I've been researching TTTF for my backyard and noticed Preferred Seed has both 4th Millennium and Traverse 2, which are both top 10 NTEP 2016 in Knoxville and Raleigh.


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

vnephologist said:


> Hey guys, I've been researching TTTF for my backyard and noticed Preferred Seed has both 4th Millennium and Traverse 2, which are both top 10 NTEP 2016 in Knoxville and Raleigh.


That place has a good rep. Do you know how much?$


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## micahp (Aug 29, 2017)

Vols_fan08,

What's your plan for watering? That looks like a good size reno. I'm in the process of one as well, and trying to figure my watering out.


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

Vols_fan08 said:


> vnephologist said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys, I've been researching TTTF for my backyard and noticed Preferred Seed has both 4th Millennium and Traverse 2, which are both top 10 NTEP 2016 in Knoxville and Raleigh.
> ...


They both look like $7/lb(1)-$2.69/lb(50).


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

micahp said:


> Vols_fan08,
> 
> What's your plan for watering? That looks like a good size reno. I'm in the process of one as well, and trying to figure my watering out.


The local volunteer fire department is coming out to water for me 😁. For about 10-14 days. Good lord willing some rain help out also.


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

I've got baby fescue germination in 5.5 days! Coming up the best through the aeration holes! Man I'm excited! I'm gonna post some baby pics this weekend.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Been wondering.

That's awesome! Congrats


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

social port said:


> Been wondering.
> 
> That's awesome! Congrats


Thanks SP! You're next :bandit:


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Yup yup.

You have nearly an acre, right? And you have no irrigation? How are you handling all of the watering?


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

Volunteer fire department has watered it 3 times this week. Best I could come up with lol. I dontate to them every year. They fill up in a nearby creek.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Vols_fan08 said:


> Volunteer fire department has watered it 3 times this week. Best I could come up with lol. I dontate to them every year. They fill up in a nearby creek.


Holy cow. I thought you were joking when you said that earlier. :lol:


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## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

Huh.... I have a Volunteer fire dept. Less than a mile from me. Maybe I need to go make friendly with them....


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

LawnNerd said:


> Huh.... I have a Volunteer fire dept. Less than a mile from me. Maybe I need to go make friendly with them....


I would lol. It's worth a shot


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

social port said:


> Vols_fan08 said:
> 
> 
> > Volunteer fire department has watered it 3 times this week. Best I could come up with lol. I dontate to them every year. They fill up in a nearby creek.
> ...


No sir :mrgreen:


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

Germination in 5 days. Aeration holes germination doing great.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Nice. Did you end up doing a triple pass?


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

social port said:


> Nice. Did you end up doing a triple pass?


Just a double. We were flat worn out. I'll probably have to do a pull behind next year although they pull crappy plugs.


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

For those curious this is AST 1001, 7001, and 9001, Tall fescue. Sold at my local CO-OP labeled as top choice tall fescue. They are in the NTEP trials in the older data. I'm very impressed with the color on day 15.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Already has a nice color. My neighbor uses that stuff. Works great for him.

I thought you bought defiance?


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

social port said:


> Already has a nice color. My neighbor uses that stuff. Works great for him.
> 
> I thought you bought defiance?


I did. I used Defiance for the big parts of my yard. I wanted to use this in a small spot to see how and which ones hold up better. The AST is 15 dollars cheaper a bag.. I like little test and competition 😁


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

A good example of the same spot filling in and maturing.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Did you ever make a decision about which you like better: TopChoice vs Defiance?


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

social port said:


> Did you ever make a decision about which you like better: TopChoice vs Defiance?


It's really hard to tell the difference tbh. I think the top choice is a little darker.. can't really tell the difference unless you get up close. I think I'll mix them in the future honestly. 

Here's the TC cut at 3 inches


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

7 weeks from seeding. Still not weed free yet but good Color.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Looking great! I love the color.


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## JohnP (Oct 24, 2017)

Beautiful view.


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> Looking great! I love the color.


Thank you sir. That's in part with your help :thumbup:


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

JohnP said:


> Beautiful view.


Thank you sir!


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Awesome color. I'd call that a successful reno.


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

social port said:


> Awesome color. I'd call that a successful reno.


Thanks. Not bad for the size of yard I reckon


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