# Drain issues, level issues, front yard issues... everything issues



## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

Hello to everyone, I apologize in advance for the long winded post but I try to be as detailed as possible. I'm in Southern Oklahoma and still adjusting to not being near water like I have been my whole life. We bought this house in the colder months when the grass and drainage issues weren't as obvious.

As of right now I hired a local lawn company I fully trust in who seem like a great family run business. No promises made and said to keep the faith and be patient which I'm struggling with oh so hard. So far he sprayed pre and post emergent over the last few months.

The house was rented for 3 years so it was neglected bad. Here are my main issues I'm hoping to get some guidance on.

-The back yard is growing grass now that it's spring. I see the obvious patches of fescue and think I'm OK leaving them for now. There are weeds but I can see progress and they aren't over taking the lawn. I have added gutters to the entire back side to help with flooding along the house near the patio.

- The back yard floods bad when it rains. The worst area is along the fence, it will usually take 2-3 days to fully dry if we have good sun. I am really trying to avoid the french drain route if possible. I'm starting to wonder if some slide grading/leveling will help the issue. Is it possible to alleviate drainage simply by aerating an getting better grass to grow in thick here? With the clay soil I have here in Oklahoma, is sand even an option? I figured if I dump a ton of sand/good compost in the middle area where the patio drops off, it would hopefully level out better leading to my neighbors fence line. I I plan on having my guy throw down some sod in the real bad areas out back and keeping my dogs off it for a few weeks to help this issue.

On to the front yard. The back yard has grown enough for me to cut 2-3 times already while the front just seems absolutely stunted. I want a nice front yard and its frustrating how orange and bairn it looks. I understand concerns with seeding this time of year but really want to take a crack at it. But after reading more on this site, you all seem against seeding bermuda for the most part so I'm curious on your advice. As of right now, next week hes coming to aerate and fertilize my front and back yard. I was thinking of going to local place that sells quality screened top soil and compost and seeding the crap out of the lawn and then lightly top dressing/leveling out the front yard. If I go this route is there a recommended seed? I also have an extension office I plan on getting soil tests done separately for the front and back yard. At this point I'm all in for fixing it while trying my best to be patient. If you've read this far I sincerely appreciate it. Oh and fly navy!


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

I won't talk you out of seeding the Bermuda if your mind is set on it. Just know that there is very little chance that the 2 grasses will match. If you are willing to sacrifice uniformity for speed of fill in then go for it. I wouldn't spend a lot of money on an expensive seed. Especially if you are going to mow with a rotary. But if you can be patient, let him aerate and fertilize and keep it watered it will take off and spread. Maybe talk to him about light doses every two weeks to encourage steady growth instead of spikes every 4 weeks.


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

Another aspect I didn't mention is I'll only be here ~4 years. So I want a nice yard but won't have long term to really fix every aspect. Since the front is so bad already I don't think I'll mind uniform issues. With that being said is there a recommended seed that balances performance with economy? I've seen Yukon, blackjack, etc.


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

Any other suggestions?


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

I don't have much experience but I'd just go with a common Bermuda you could get at the big box stores to save the most money since you're just wanting a rapid fill in.


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

I'll look into that. I also won't feel as bad if it doesn't work 100% as it will be a lot cheaper.


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## driver_7 (Jun 28, 2018)

I feel you on drainage issues. I'm over in NW Arkansas, we likely have very similar soil (clay) compositions. This stuff just doesn't move water too well subsurface. Therefore, I'm about to install 70ft of full-blown French drain (16" wiDe :lol:, 12" deep) with a sump pit and pump to get rid of it. Like you, I'm tired of waiting for days for it to dry out. Unfortunately some sort of drainage assistance is probably needed for your situation, with our soil type it's just going to keep flooding your yard.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

717driver said:


> (16" wife, 12" deep)


I've heard guys brag before but that one takes the cake.


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## Philly_Gunner (Apr 23, 2019)

TN Hawkeye said:


> 717driver said:
> 
> 
> > (16" wife, 12" deep)
> ...


Beat me to it! 🤣🤣🤣


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

717driver said:


> I feel you on drainage issues. I'm over in NW Arkansas, we likely have very similar soil (clay) compositions. This stuff just doesn't move water too well subsurface. Therefore, I'm about to install 70ft of full-blown French drain (16" wife, 12" deep) with a sump pit and pump to get rid of it. Like you, I'm tired of waiting for days for it to dry out. Unfortunately some sort of drainage assistance is probably needed for your situation, with our soil type it's just going to keep flooding your yard.


Damn. I know French drains would work but I'm stuck on the cost. I was quoted around 2300.00 and the expensive part seems to be going under my side walk out front. Doesn't seem impossible but seems like a pain. I just hate to dump too much money into a place I might not be for that long. Just noticed your username too, nice to see a fellow pilot.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

You can do French drains yourself. When I quote commercially it's $15-$18 a linear foot. More than half that is labor cost. If you don't mind running a trencher, or digging trenches manually, you could do it yourself for probably 25% of that, and get a really nice result.


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

SCGrassMan said:


> You can do French drains yourself. When I quote commercially it's $15-$18 a linear foot. More than half that is labor cost. If you don't mind running a trencher, or digging trenches manually, you could do it yourself for probably 25% of that, and get a really nice result.


I'm just stuck with planning it out. As far as placement, how many catch basins, etc


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## driver_7 (Jun 28, 2018)

Philly_Gunner said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
> 
> 
> > 717driver said:
> ...


I'm dead. 😆😆🤣😭

I couldn't figure out why I got quoted so many times in a boring post about drainage. Hahaha!


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## driver_7 (Jun 28, 2018)

flynavy812 said:


> 717driver said:
> 
> 
> > I feel you on drainage issues. I'm over in NW Arkansas, we likely have very similar soil (clay) compositions. This stuff just doesn't move water too well subsurface. Therefore, I'm about to install 70ft of full-blown French drain (16" wife, 12" deep) with a sump pit and pump to get rid of it. Like you, I'm tired of waiting for days for it to dry out. Unfortunately some sort of drainage assistance is probably needed for your situation, with our soil type it's just going to keep flooding your yard.
> ...


Yeah man! Go Navy! I'm flying with a Navy guy this week, better than the guys from COS. .

I would kill for a $2300 quote. I'm about $9,500 in with this new plan. Paid out $3,000 last year to a terrible contractor who did a crap job and skipped town. Glad he didn't get the final payment.

I just want to be able to use the yard again when it rains. The dog is a mess. The house is a mess. It's awful. I'd probably agree to any price right now, which isn't a good idea. I want to do it myself, I just don't have the days off in a row to do it.


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

I'm trying to find a balance since this is my first home and I plan on selling in roughly 4 years. I'm already pissed I didn't catch the issues before buying but it was winter and I'm naive. Next house I'll be looking for so much more stuff the lawn being one.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

flynavy812 said:


> SCGrassMan said:
> 
> 
> > You can do French drains yourself. When I quote commercially it's $15-$18 a linear foot. More than half that is labor cost. If you don't mind running a trencher, or digging trenches manually, you could do it yourself for probably 25% of that, and get a really nice result.
> ...


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

Here is original French drain quote. Originally quoted with gutters too, I found someone cheaper and had gutters put all around the back. Don't notice a huge difference to be honest. The whole yard floods but the back right is the worst and the side yard is completely flooded for days. I was thinking truckload a week of sandy loam mix to help grade. On the side, bring in good soil to fix grade and eventually use crushed granite and give up on grass.


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## Texas MH (Jan 20, 2019)

flynavy812 said:


> Any other suggestions?


You might first try bringing in some top soil or sand and raising that area's profile. I've had some low spots where water pooled and adding more soil helped a lot. It will also encourage grass growth that can be of help too. Definitely a quicker and cheaper option to consider. Good luck!


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

Texas MH said:


> flynavy812 said:
> 
> 
> > Any other suggestions?
> ...


As far as what soil to use should I keep it simple? Local place has a few options I put below. They are 50-60.00 a ton.

Garden Ready

Composed of screened dark brown sandy loam fortified with 35%
Dark Forest and 3% Gypsum

Rich Mix
Composed of screened dark brown sandy loam fortified with 30% Prairie Gold and 3% Gypsum

Topsoil
Screened, dark brown, sandy loam


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## Texas MH (Jan 20, 2019)

@flynavy812 I'd avoid any mix with compost as it will break down. Normally that's good, but not for what you're trying to do. The gypsum might help the soil with drainage. I don't know the difference between Dark Forest and Prarie Gold, so just ask the folks you're getting it from which would work best for what your trying to do.

A Truck Bed Cargo Unloader is about $60 on Amazon and definitely worth getting if you're going to go pick up the soil yourself. You can unload a yard of dirt in about 1m with little effort. I usually just crank out enough to shovel right into a wheelbarrow so I don't have to get up in the bed of the truck to shovel it out.

This might not be a complete fix, but it will certainly help, especially the middle part of your yard


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

Texas MH said:


> @flynavy812 I'd avoid any mix with compost as it will break down. Normally that's good, but not for what you're trying to do. The gypsum might help the soil with drainage. I don't know the difference between Dark Forest and Prarie Gold, so just ask the folks you're getting it from which would work best for what your trying to do.
> 
> A Truck Bed Cargo Unloader is about $60 on Amazon and definitely worth getting if you're going to go pick up the soil yourself. You can unload a yard of dirt in about 1m with little effort. I usually just crank out enough to shovel right into a wheelbarrow so I don't have to get up in the bed of the truck to shovel it out.
> 
> This might not be a complete fix, but it will certainly help, especially the middle part of your yard


I see that Harbor Freight also carries a unloader, might need to check it out. I can use my 20% off coupon and get some free China crap as well :lol:

My logic is to definitely do it in stages and be patient. We had a downpour yesterday and you could clearly see a depression towards the center of my backyard where it sits low. We had good sun today and it dried up about 85% of the way, with the exception of that area by the fence that is just awful. I'm definitely concerned because it just kills any chance of Bermuda spreading and leaves dead grass/thatch everywhere onc@flynavy812

After talking to rear neighbors its obvious the previous renters didn't care, he said he could pull weeds by reaching over the fence, that's how bad it got. So I know it won't happen overnight. I have some patches where the Bermuda is seriously lovely and thick and just looks nice. And others where I'm getting some poor results.


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## Texas MH (Jan 20, 2019)

@flynavy812 I bet all your neighbors are glad you moved in!


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

Texas MH said:


> @flynavy812 I bet all your neighbors are glad you moved in!


I think so, I didn't realize how frowned having renters could be. I've always been a super respectful renter and still cared about my lawn but some people just don't care I guess. It's frustrating I can't fix it as fast as I want so I'm really trying to work on my patience.


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

Update. Tore out crappy tree out front, I definitely saw some grub worms while doing so. Soil is squishy with my feet but we did have a ton of rain. There is green stuff all over top layer (algae)? I throw down some Bermuda sod in a panic and it looks like Frankenstein now, felt like I had to do something. Lawn guy should be aerating and overseeding soon. I also bought two pounds of quality common Bermuda from a local turf company for when the time comes. Any suggestions?


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

Backyard is coming along. I threw down some milo because I can't help myself and feel like I need to do something. Its fun to watch the bermuda spread, it really is filling in areas. I asked this in the leveling thread and nobody responded so hopefully someone does here..

I can see the issue while standing out back. I have a good grade coming from my patio but then it sinks in towards the middle of the lawn, and then back up towards the neighbors fence. I'm confident this is part of my drain issue. The question is, bring in a few yards of sandy quality loam, or use straight sand to help alleviate this middle section?


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## Texas MH (Jan 20, 2019)

@flynavy812 I would go with soil to do the grading/correct the drainage issue. It will do a little settling over time, so next spring you can fine tune the grade with some sand if you want to take it up a notch.


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

Texas MH said:


> @flynavy812 I would go with soil to do the grading/correct the drainage issue. It will do a little settling over time, so next spring you can fine tune the grade with some sand if you want to take it up a notch.
> [/@flynavy812
> 
> Ok thanks, the Bermuda really is taking off. I overseeded with a fescue blend because I'm too impatient and didn't know what I was doing. So now it's sprouting like crazy too which I'm sure won't last.


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## mtroo (Jul 31, 2018)

Fixing the grade will send the water to the front of the house? Moving the problem to the neighbor's yard may not be a crowd pleaser. It would seem the grade should be adjusted, but you may still ultimately need a French drain.


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

mtroo said:


> Fixing the grade will send the water to the front of the house? Moving the problem to the neighbor's yard may not be a crowd pleaser. It would seem the grade should be adjusted, but you may still ultimately need a French drain.


The only reason I'm considering this route is I finally met my rear neighbor and he had some insight. He said he also corrected his lawn and all water should be flowing from my house onward towards his. So mine slopes down from patio and then has a small low point. So I am thinking if I shallow this out it will allow the full grade to carry the water. But yes I absolutely agree I don't want to pass the issue along. The grass is a weak brown now in these areas from what I'm assuming is water saturation?


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

Anybody have any idea what this is? My entire yard has what essentially looks like micro and piles. They are tiny crumbles littered everywhere. No ants that I can see.


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## smurg (May 30, 2018)

flynavy812 said:


> Anybody have any idea what this is? My entire yard has what essentially looks like micro and piles. They are tiny crumbles littered everywhere. No ants that I can see.


Could be earthworm castings which is a good sign for your lawn.


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

smurg said:


> flynavy812 said:
> 
> 
> > Anybody have any idea what this is? My entire yard has what essentially looks like micro and piles. They are tiny crumbles littered everywhere. No ants that I can see.
> ...


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

Well, while I did waste some seed experimenting in the backyard, I didn't in the front. When we moved in, the front was worse than the back. I was told by 5 different people that I would need to wait 2-3 seasons for a turnaround but its definitely possible. While my neighbors lawn greened up around May, min was still just so barren and orange from all the clay. I wish I took more photos because looking back I don't even remember when it started to grow and fill in.

I bet the record rain helped it recover, but I do want to toot my own horn as well. I mowed often, put down some Michiganite, and a few other random apps to experiment and have fun with it. I've had 3 neighbors tell me how great it looks and it feels good to hear. I might not have the BEST lawn on my street but I'm moving on up pretty quick I would say.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

flynavy812 said:


> Well, while I did waste some seed experimenting in the backyard, I didn't in the front. When we moved in, the front was worse than the back. I was told by 5 different people that I would need to wait 2-3 seasons for a turnaround but its definitely possible. While my neighbors lawn greened up around May, min was still just so barren and orange from all the clay. I wish I took more photos because looking back I don't even remember when it started to grow and fill in.
> 
> I bet the record rain helped it recover, but I do want to toot my own horn as well. I mowed often, put down some Michiganite, and a few other random apps to experiment and have fun with it. I've had 3 neighbors tell me how great it looks and it feels good to hear. I might not have the BEST lawn on my street but I'm moving on up pretty quick I would say.


Looking great. When tooting your own horn it's ok if no one else recognizes the song. :thumbup:


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## Texas MH (Jan 20, 2019)

@flynavy812 Looking good :thumbup: Well done


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

French drain install is tomorrow, I'm a little anxious because I'll probably be at work for most of it. I'm mainly concerned because my yard looks fricken good finally and now they will have to trench it up. Hoping for a quick recovery, I know its possible considering how barren it was when I moved in.


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## flynavy812 (May 15, 2019)

Well, I was super excited for the drains, but its not happening. They kept rescheduling me, they never ordered the utilities to be marked, its a nightmare. After emails without responses and no returned calls, I'm at a loss. I sent one last email with a timeline of events hoping to at least explain my frustration and I get a call from a lady saying they will not be doing business with me. Wow, really do love the military I guess.


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