# PHXCobra's Arizona lawn journey



## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

To start things off, I live in Phoenix. 300 days of sunshine a year, not much rain, and a lot of heat. My wife and I bought this house 2 years ago.

When we bought the house the backyard had a non-operational sprinkler system, native soil, and waist high weeds. (Dune buggy not included, but the shed was so that's a win)






We got the sprinkler system working properly, on a timer. Got all the weeds yanked, leveled and had some BOBSod installed from West Coast Turf. It's the same stuff that was used in Bank One Ballpark (now Chase Field) where the Arizona Diamondbacks play. I wanted something that would hold up to a decent amount of traffic and would hold up to the Arizona summers. Had some rose bushes and a tree installed and had the back yard that was the envy of the neighborhood. The nursery that put in our rose bushes and tree actually commented that my lawn was the best he'd seen that summer.


It did ok but we had a rabbit problem and a shade tree that was providing a little too much shade early and so the grass didn't like it.




I overseeded with BOBSeed in the fall. It's the same winter stuff they use to overseed at the farm so I was very happy with it. Looked amazing and I couldn't have been happier.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Awesome. For those that don't want to go look it up, it looks like BOBSod®[/sup] is a hybrid bermuda and BOBSeed[sup]® is their own blend of PRG for winter overseeding. :thumbup:


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

Then it all took a turn for the worse.

Since then we overseeded again for the summer, which as I've learned from this board, was a mistake. I used the Pennington seed from HD, covered that with manure, and got it going. The quality was never as good as I wanted but it grew and was mostly green so I couldn't complain too much. Wife and I spent 2 weeks in Europe and it was neglected so cutting it down when we got back led to some yellow. I didn't know about the 1/3 rule then.





This winter overseeded again with Pennington Rye from HD (couldn't find BOBSeed that was in stock) and it grew well. The below pictures are after 1 week of growth cut to the same length in January of this year. Also, the blades are pretty wide on the real tall stuff and it is seemingly always wet even if I water it once, 4 days before the mow.





To prep for the upcoming transition I have cut watering back to twice a week for 6 minutes each zone (3 zones in 1800-2000 sq/ft) as opposed to three times a week for 9 minutes each zone. I mowed on Sunday 3/18 and will be mowing today 3/21/18 to try and keep the height reasonable and help the Bermuda come back. I have also lowered my mowing height to the 2 setting on My Troy-Built TB110, normally mow on 3. Will be lowering it all the way down in a couple weeks when its time for the rye to die out the rest of the way.

I will get before and after pictures today to post. The weekend of April 7th and 8th I will be renting an aerator and verti-cutter and going to work to hopefully aid the Bermuda in coming back.


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

For fertilizer I used 20-20-20 monthly for the first season and the grass really liked it. HD no longer carried it so now I use 15-15-15 and have kinda struggled to maintain the yard I want. It has been suggested to me on this forum I get a soil sample to find out what I have and what I need to really make this thing go. Any critiques and or advice is greatly appreciated.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@PHXCobra Do you still have the dune buggy?

One thing I noticed is that in almost all the pictures you posted there is a lot of shadow. Maybe it was the time of day you took the pictures, but Bermuda needs sun, lots of sun.


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

@g-man I don't. It didn't come with the house. IIRC it was V6 Chevrolet powered.

Time of day we do have one large shade tree and it caused some thin areas.


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## dsotm (Feb 21, 2018)

Sweet another Phoenician!


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

Todays pre and during mowing pics. If anyone has any idea how many different types of grass and what kinds that would be nice to have an idea


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

And the finished product. The Troy-Built does a pretty good job of striping


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

dsotm said:


> Sweet another Phoenician!


Which side of the valley do you live in?


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## dsotm (Feb 21, 2018)

PHXCobra said:


> dsotm said:
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> > Sweet another Phoenician!
> ...


Northwest, near Norterra


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

dsotm said:


> PHXCobra said:
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Nice. I work at I-17 and Deer Valley. Live at Lake Pleasant and Deer Valley.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

I was in Phoenix in early January this year, saw quite a few nice yards, many that I suspected had been overseeded for the winter. I didn't mind visiting in Jan, not so sure about July...


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I think all your varieties of grass is from your BOBSod, bermuda seed and rye grass. I would recommend you spraying out the rye as soon as possible so that it quits competing with the bermuda. At what rate were you applying the 15-15-15?


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Ok 
I am trying to get the timeline correct 
Bermuda Sod installed 2016 
Over seeded with rye fall 2016
Over seeded with rye spring/summer 2017 and added manure
Over seeded with rye fall 2017

Rye is very fast growing and depending on the height of cut will compete and shade out your bermuda sod. I wouldnt overseed anymore this year. Give you bermuda grass a chance to grow.
You had a backyard that was the envy of the neighbors when you had bermuda grass. Since then you have overseeded with rye grass for a year and a half and the quality of your lawn has gone down.
In my opinion you need to get your bermuda lawn back.
edit= Get a soil test to see what your soil needs as far as fertilizer is concerned


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## thegrassfactor (Apr 12, 2017)

Rye has allelopathic tendencies. You have to spray it out


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

Tellycoleman said:


> Ok
> I am trying to get the timeline correct
> Bermuda Sod installed 2016
> Over seeded with rye fall 2016
> ...


Close. Overseeded with Bermuda seed in the spring last year.

I applied the triple 15 With my Scott's spreader using the setting specified on the bag.


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

thegrassfactor said:


> Rye has allelopathic tendencies. You have to spray it out


I don't think that's the case in AZ or desert climates. The rye isn't going to survive the summer. Just cut back on water stress it as it heats up and it'll die out. Keep it cut short so the Bermuda gets sun and it will take over.


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## thegrassfactor (Apr 12, 2017)

PHXCobra said:


> thegrassfactor said:
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> > Rye has allelopathic tendencies. You have to spray it out
> ...





PHXCobra said:


> thegrassfactor said:
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> > Rye has allelopathic tendencies. You have to spray it out
> ...


Stress response from natural death will be the production of alleles. That's why spraying it out will inhibit the enzymatic response. I'd crank up the N rates and soil "agitation"


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

Looks great PHXCobra, it looks like your on the right path. Im sure it will look even better for you in no time. Good job.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

+1 on killing the rye. True it is not necessary but you are trying to get your lawn to look awsome! Reducing the stress of your bermuda by spraying the rye will give your Bobsod a quicker growth response. If you are sick with the flu you will live but if you take nyquil-sudafed-and trimedex- you will get over the flu 3-4 days quicker. Get the analogy Rye grass = Flu and Nyquil = MSM Turf.

At what rate were you putting down the 20-20-20 and same question for the 15-15-15?
To get a pound of N you need 5 pounds per 1000sqft of the 20-20-20 but you need 6.6 pounds of the 15-15-15. Did you put down more? I would get a soil test ASAP. You might need PH adjustment. Also you might not need a balance fertilizer like a 20-20-20. My soil test this year showed that on my side yard i didnt need any P and K so a balanced fertilizer would be a waste.

What is your watering schedule during the summer? Do you know exactly how much water you are putting down every week?
Are you using pre-emergents?
We want you to be the envy of your neighbors again!!!


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Tellycoleman said:


> +1 on killing the rye...


+2


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

@Ware @Tellycoleman 
What do you recommend I use to kill it? I have a dog that uses it multiple times a day, a cat that sneaks out and tries to eat grass occasionally and kids that play in it almost daily


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I'm using MSM Turf to kill my PRG.


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

Ware said:


> I'm using MSM Turf to kill my PRG.


Is there enough in that bottle to treat my yard for rye and my parents 5000 sq ft lawn for clover?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

PHXCobra said:


> Is there enough in that bottle to treat my yard for rye and my parents 5000 sq ft lawn for clover?


Yes, for _many_ seasons.

The label rate for ryegrass is only like 0.5 oz/acre (0.325 g/M). The highest label rate is 1 oz/acre (0.65 g/M) for a single application. You'll definitely want to use a gram scale to weigh it.

Also note that it calls for NIS at a rate of 0.25% by volume (0.32 oz/gal). You can check the label I linked above for a list of the weeds it controls.


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

Well i didn't officially kill the Rye but it's basically dead. Water stress and 90 degree heat got the job done.

Been mowing at the lowest setting for my Troy-Bilt for about 2 1/2 weeks now. Talked the wife into renting an aerater and dethatcher. Got that done on Saturday morning and my what a difference.

Aerated first, did short ways and long ways. Grabbed the "power rake" and dethatched one way, mowed, dethatched the other way, mowed again. It definitely thinned it out. Most of the aeration holes are pretty much full or what got left behind by the mower after dethatching but I'm sure plenty of water is getting down in it. Couple during pics with the little helpers.


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## Fishnugget (Sep 29, 2017)

Looks good PHXCorbra, the hard work will pay off.

My son does the same thing, as soon as he sees I am going to mow he grabs his mower and waits for me to start mowing. Its hilarious.


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

Green up is coming in. This is after today's mow. Only 97 outside today



Can anyone tell me if there is anything I can do about this? The darker green is what we want. It's BOBSod that we planted originally. The lighter stuff is I'm guessing what I planted like a dummy. Anyway to target just the lighter stuff?


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Negative ghost rider, there's no herbicide to target Common bermuda in a stand of hybrid Bermuda


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

J_nick said:


> Negative ghost rider, there's no herbicide to target Common bermuda in a stand of hybrid Bermuda


That's what I thought. I may just leave it or try to yank it out in spots throughout the summer and see if I mostly remove it that way.


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

It's definitely filling in nicely in most areas. Still have some sprinkler work to do I think. 




The obligatory golf ball shot and another to show depth.





Not a bad cut for a rotary eh?


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## coreymays22 (Apr 25, 2017)

[quote

The obligatory golf ball shot and another to show depth.





Not a bad cut for a rotary eh?
[/quote]

Now that is a flyer lie

Yard looks great btw


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

coreymays22 said:


> Now that is a flyer lie
> 
> Yard looks great btw


Yea for sure.

Thanks. I guess the little extra water, high temps, and milorganite I fed it have really let the BoBSod Bermuda explode. I think the heat is killing off the common stuff because before I mowed all of the stuff I didn't want was yellow and dead looking.


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

I know we definitely don't have it as bad as those with the hurricanes but I kinda wish it would stop raining so I can overseed with PRG. My Bermuda has been really running wild recently.

2nd question. Can I do a leveling before i oversees or should I wait? If I have to wait for this Bermuda to go dormant I'd like to try and level it a little


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

Ever since I've overseeded the yard has done ok but not great. Had our first frost last night and I believe everything held up well. Need my PRG to spread to the edges and fill in still. Don't think it really ever will. I haven't had the opportunity with two little ones around the holidays to give the yard the care it needs.

Can anyone explain why I have the lines from my walking spreader with milorganite? These lines are from the application with the seed and they've stayed since then.


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## Bradymco11 (Jul 11, 2018)

I think the wheels from the spreader press the seed into the soil giving the seed better soil contact and cause it to germinate a little quicker and thicker. I used to get this too then I started renting a roller when I overseed. Going over the lawn with a roller after seeding helps it be more uniform.


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

Lawn has really responded to warmer temps and the triple 15 I put down. Was looking fairly yellow and patchy. This is after today's cut. Much better. Dog is leaving her mark but whatever. Also have some clover I need to get out of it and figure out what caused those yellow lines where I payed down fertilizer with the PRG seed


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## PHXCobra (Mar 20, 2018)

Ware said:


> PHXCobra said:
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> > Is there enough in that bottle to treat my yard for rye and my parents 5000 sq ft lawn for clover?
> ...


Finally bought the MSM (only took 2 years) and plan to apply it to kill everything except the bermuda. At what rate should I apply it to kill the rye (label says .25) and all of the random clover stuff I don't even know how to identify while leaving my bermuda alone for the most part?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

PHXCobra said:


> Ware said:
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I would apply at the 1/2 oz per acre rate.


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