# Runners won't tack



## M311att (May 22, 2017)

My Bermuda is trying to spread but the runners just sit on top of the bare spots. Also, alot of my grass seems to be just laying on top of the ground. Imagine if you were to blow a poorly glued toupee. That's how alot of my lawn acts if I hit it with a blower. The guy at site one this morning suggested that my fert company's choice of preemergent may be the reason for this. Any truth to that? I'm not sure what they use but he suggested something that would be a shoot inhibitor vs a root inhibitor.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Almost correct. A strong root inhibiting herbicide can do that. The three I am thinking of includes Pendimethalin, Oryzalin, or Indaziflam. Those three are used because they offer strong control of Crabgrass, Goosegrass, and Poa Annua. I would not use those herbicides on a lawn that needs to repair thin or bald areas because of the root inhibition. Moderate rates of Prodiamine or else Simazine do not do that.


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## reidgarner (Jun 18, 2018)

I had/have the same issue. I had a service up until this year and they were using Specticle (indaziflam). A lot of companies have begun to use it in the past few years. It works extremely well, but at the expense of root pruning. Agree with @Greendoc , look at prodiamine and Simazine. If you really wanted to be safe you could look at Ronstar (oxadiazon) which has a shoot inhibition MOA as opposed to root inhibition. But you can't use the liquid version on actively growing Bermuda and the granular version is pretty pricey. Maybe even skip the pre in those bald areas and just deal with the weeds on a hand-pull basis.


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## M311att (May 22, 2017)

Well I was considering eliminating the service anyway so it looks like it's going to be before they can get the fall app down. Thanks guys. Should I be ok for next season if I change over to prodiamine?


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## reidgarner (Jun 18, 2018)

Yeah just follow the label rates. You may want to look at using a lower rate than normal until your Bermuda fills in and deal with a few pop up weeds. It's one of those damned if you do damned if you don't type situaishes. I'm going to hit my bald areas with a half rate and see if that helps going forward.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Prodiamine at low to moderate rates is tolerated by Bermuda needing to fill in. I rather see Specticle used during the Winter or non growing season. in Hawaii, I use Prodiamine in the Spring months then Specticle when the grass is semi dormant during the Winter months and never on a thin or patchy lawn.


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## rhollow1 (Jun 28, 2018)

I am having a similar issue with my runners. Does Dimension also cause root inhibition?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Yes. Dimension is one I forgot about.


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## rhollow1 (Jun 28, 2018)

Is there anything that can be done to help them root since I already put down the dimension? I am fertilizing weekly already.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Sand topdressing. Make the runners root in the sand.


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## rhollow1 (Jun 28, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> Sand topdressing. Make the runners root in the sand.


Thanks!!


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## Bogart (Jun 23, 2018)

How long will it take for the PE to break down if applied a little too heavy. I have the same issue by putting down Prodiamine in the Spring and Summer. I have watered a lot and we have had a hot summer. I thought the problem would be gone by now but still seems to be happening. Might have to try the sand.


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## reidgarner (Jun 18, 2018)

Bogart said:
 

> How long will it take for the PE to break down if applied a little too heavy. I have the same issue by putting down Prodiamine in the Spring and Summer. I have watered a lot and we have had a hot summer. I thought the problem would be gone by now but still seems to be happening. Might have to try the sand.


 What Pre-M did you use and what rate?

Sand can definitely help. Maybe try a mix of 80% sand 20% organic material. Mushroom compost is good and is easy to come by. My favorite organic material is Erth Food. It's literally human sh*t mixed with peanut shells but man, does it make grass grow.


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## Bogart (Jun 23, 2018)

I don't remember the rate I put it down. This was before I made a journal and started tracking everything. What do you do about thick areas of the lawn where it is also happening?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Would a core aerate help? Maybe use an aerovator? Heavy dose of humates like RGS or something along with soil disruption? On a small scale, perhaps use a garden weasel?


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Would a core aerate help? Maybe use an aerovator? Heavy dose of humates like RGS or something along with soil disruption? On a small scale, perhaps use a garden weasel?


Nope it doesn't help. Just time
I overdosed dimension in February and it just now started taking down despite RGS Air8 humid lots of rain and heat. 
Aeration just made weeds come up in the aeration holes but the Bermuda didn't tack down. 
It's gonna take time and I'm going to take @thegrassfactor advice when I asked if I should apply anything in the fall. 
He said get a good post emergent and don't apply again until next year. I am ready for the winter weed war!!!


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## Bogart (Jun 23, 2018)

I was planning on not putting any pre-emergent this fall and a light application next spring. I didn't think it would last this long.


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## rhollow1 (Jun 28, 2018)

I went ahead and added some potting soil over the areas that don't tack on. @Greendoc recommend sand, but I had a couple of bags of potting soil laying around. Hopefully this helps a little.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Potting soil will work. Now that I see the actual area, my worst fears have been confirmed. Nothing but the low rate of Prodiamine or else Simazine should have been applied. The other pre s are not good.


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## rhollow1 (Jun 28, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> Potting soil will work. Now that I see the actual area, my worst fears have been confirmed. Nothing but the low rate of Prodiamine or else Simazine should have been applied. The other pre s are not good.


Thanks for the help! Next year I will only apply Prodiamine.


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## gatormac2112 (Sep 14, 2017)

This is only a problem with pre e's? Post emergents don't have this effect?

I use prodiamine as pre and Celsius/certainty as post


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## Rick S (Feb 21, 2021)

I am having the same issue with my runners not tacking down and it sounds like it's because of my pre-emergent chemicals.

Question: Bermuda spreads by stolons and rhizomes. 
The stolons are on top - and they won't tack down.
The rhizomes are below the surface and spread below the surface.
Will the rhizomes still spread, pop up through the surface, and live - or are my pre-emergents stopping them also?


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Usually a light topdress will help stolons tack down even with pre-em in effect.


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## Highlife159 (May 19, 2021)

Redtwin said:


> Usually a light topdress will help stolons tack down even with pre-em in effect.


Can confirm this. I have a pretty large spot in the back yard that I've been trying to get to fill in but I put down Specticle FLO this spring. I put down some 50/50 sand and potting soil in the spot a little over a week ago and the spot is already probably 50% filled in. I did another smaller area with just sand and it seems to be doing just as good so I think the main thing is to just give the runners some thing to put roots into that doesn't have the pre-em barrier.


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## Mikeyp_1284 (Jul 23, 2021)

Redtwin said:


> Usually a light topdress will help stolons tack down even with pre-em in effect.


So what exactly is considered a light top dress. I'm having a few patches of bare spots after using esplanade this year. The only thing that's growing in them is sedges.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Put down about a 1/4" to 1/2" of sand and brush it out until you see green poking through.


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## monsonman (Dec 9, 2020)

This was a dead spot from dog pee coming into spring. I put about 6 plugs in the area and the runners spread quickly, but were growing across the bare area, so i put a little sand down to bring the bare areas up to match the rest of the grass/ plugs.

Filled completely in within 3-4 weeks to where you wouldnt have known it was all dead in early April. :thumbup:

My bermuda seems to love the sand and it seems to accelerate the recovery/ fill in tremendously, versus just letting the grass fill in on its own.










ETA: These two pictures below were taken 2 weeks apart.


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