# Overseeding in CT



## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

I am new to this forum, and have found that you guys are very knowledgeable when it comes to lawncare. I moved into my house in Nov 17 in Connecticut. I applied my milgroantite applications in the spring and summer. I noticed that 1/2 my yard had a lot of bare spots. I aerated in the spring and tried to seed. The seed did not germinate that well. I think I probably aerated to early. So by mid July I noticed that my lawn had been attacked with crab grass. I was not expecting to see so much crabgrass. My previous house in CT, had hardly any crabgrass. I took care of it though, unlike the previous owner of my existing house. I know it's to late to prevent now, but I want to get more grass down in the fall by overseeding. Yesterday I scalped the grass that is overgrown with crabgrass. I raked and transported the clippings. I would like to aerate this and overseeding. I am not sure if when I should overseed. Should I wait till September 1 or start now? I want to put down kbg but the other part of the grass is perennial ryegrass. Will this look odd? What else can I do to improve this area in the fall? Any suggestions are welcome. I will put some pics of what it looks like now after the snapping and the other half of the grass that is in decent shape.


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

Hey Mrotatori-

Welcome to TLF! I also in CT and had a similar challenge last summer. The difficulty you face is the crabgrass is occupying the bare areas you want to seed with good grass. The seedlings cannot compete with the mature crabgrass. The crabgrass will die with the first good frost, but then it is too late to seed. Timing wise, if you were to use quinclorac or another post-emergent herbicide you would need to wait 30 days to seed and that puts you outside the typical window for seeding in CT. You could try handpulling as much as you can, but with large areas that can quickly become tiresome. A non-selective like roundup will kill the crabgrass (and anything else) and allow you to seed right away. You could hit the worst areas with roundup and then seed the next day. By the time the crabgrass turns crunchy, you will start to see germination of the new grass. Again, roundup will also kill your good grass, so you'd need to weigh this out.

Next year, get a pre-emergent down in the spring to prevent the crabgrass and then seed again in late August.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@jessehurlburt, LCN mentions in his latest video that the label for his 75% quinclorac says 7 says to seed. That's a lot better than 30.


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

Thanks I was wondering about using a post emegent like quinclorac. I just want to be sure that I can seed, but don't want to waste money on seeding when it might not work. I see that Primesource Quinclorac 1.5L Select (Drive XLR8) Liquid Crabgrass Killer can be applied 7 days before seeding. This would only be a selective, so that's good. Is it to early to put kbg seed down and when would it be to late?


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

Green said:


> @jessehurlburt, LCN mentions in his latest video that the label for his 75% quinclorac says 7 says to seed. That's a lot better than 30.


Good to know! Thanks for correcting me, Green. :thumbup:


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Mrotatori said:


> I see that Primesource Quinclorac 1.5L Select (Drive XLR8) Liquid Crabgrass Killer can be applied 7 days before seeding. This would only be a selective, so that's good. Is it to early to put kbg seed down and when would it be to late?


That would be perfect timing where I am. Definitely not too early. Actually Aug 15 is a great planting date for KBG.

But I would apply it on the next dry day so you don't delay seeding too long.

What is the existing good grass in that area? If it's mostly PR, you have a lot of prep work ahead in order to get KBG seed to germinate and survive, which we'll discuss...but hopefully it's not PR.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Mrotatori @Green

The answer is more complex. The product label has a table (page 11) with what seed could be applied/used before seed, at seed down and after seed. For TTTF, you could use it at anytime. For PR ok 7 days prior and at seed down, but until 28day post. KBG and Fine Fescues, ok 7 days prior, not ok at seed down and until 28days.


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

@Green I am pretty sure it is PR. You mention a lot more prep work, what would that entail? Also, will it look strange to have some KBG and PR next to each other?


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

@g-man thanks for the reply about the label


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

@jessehurlburt thanks for the info. What part of CT do you live in?


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

@Green the existing good grass in the area that I want to seed *** is probably PR. I think most of the area that I scalped, see pictures, was covered in crabgrass. So, I really don't think there was much PR. I had a ton of bare spots in early spring. In early spring I aerated and seeded, but the grass did not germinate well. The crabgrass over took that half of the lawn. There is more sunlight in that section, compared to the other section, which has 3 trees providing coverage


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Mrotatori said:


> @Green the existing good grass in the area that I want to seed *** is probably PR. I think most of the area that I scalped, see pictures, was covered in crabgrass. So, I really don't think there was much PR. I had a ton of bare spots in early spring. In early spring I aerated and seeded, but the grass did not germinate well. The crabgrass over took that half of the lawn. There is more sunlight in that section, compared to the other section, which has 3 trees providing coverage


That should be no problem. As long as there are green crabgrass leaves left, I'd spray quinclorac on the next dry day. Wait a week, and then scalp again, dethatch (I like the groundskeeper II rake), broadcast KBG seed in two directions, cover lightly with peat or Triple start hydro mulch, and start watering!

I'd use around 1.5 lbs of seed per thousand square feet in this case...that's a high overseeding rate. Close to double that on completely bare spots.

You'll end up with a PR/KBG mix, which makes a nice lawn. I once did the same, except using a KBG/TTTF mix. I ended up with a three species mix. If you'd like, you can sprinkle a tiny amount of PR seed in any bare spots to help blending. I mean a tiny amount...it's probably good to have a few lbs on hand anyway for spot seeding repairs.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

By the way, on that cut a week from now before you seed...if you can bag mow the clippings, I think you'll save a lot of time and be more successful as well.

Also, I would use either Tenacity or Scotts/Lebanon starter fertilizer with Mesotrione (same thing, but granular in the fertilizer) at time of seed down to suppress the crabgrass seeds that are there while your new grass comes in.


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

@Green yes I plan to bag the clippings. I will take the clippings and dispose of them. The bagging and clippings will be manual, since I don't have a bagger. I have a pull behind dump cart that helps with this process. The scalping pictures above were bagged manually. It took me a few hours, not to bad. I ordered the quinclorac and mso last night. They will be here between Friday and Wednesday. I need to find somewhere to get the kbg. I have a local garden store called Better lawn and garden or CT Turf. I am not sure of their see quality. Do you or anyone else know of any CT dealers or online that provide good seed? ( 0 percent weeds of course) it looks like I will be overseeding on September 1st now. Does this give enough time for kbg to geminate?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Mrotatori said:


> @Green yes I plan to bag the clippings. I will take the clippings and dispose of them. The bagging and clippings will be manual, since I don't have a bagger. I have a pull behind dump cart that helps with this process. The scalping pictures above were bagged manually. It took me a few hours, not to bad. I ordered the quinclorac and mso last night. They will be here between Friday and Wednesday. I need to find somewhere to get the kbg. I have a local garden store called Better lawn and garden or CT Turf. I am not sure of their see quality. Do you or anyone else know of any CT dealers or online that provide good seed? ( 0 percent weeds of course) it looks like I will be overseeding on September 1st now. Does this give enough time for kbg to geminate?


The two seed wholesalers/retailers in CT I know about and have purchased from are Hart Seed in Wethersfield and New England Seed in East Hartford. Call them up and ask about pricing and weed/other crop content...it would be the fastest way to get seed. I know Hart has America and Mazama KBG and Fiesta 4 PR in stock currently, for example. If you go in, you can avoid the shipping, but both will ship.

There are other companies in other states as well that will ship. United Seeds (midwest), The Hogan company (TN), Pawnee Buttes, Williams, Seed Superstore, and others. There's a thread listing some more.

I would use at least 2 or 3 different KBG cultivars from at least two categories, if not 3. You can check NTEP for ratings in different areas.

I'd shoot for earlier if you can, but if ypu don't have any time until Sept 1, you'll have to make do.


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

@Green Thanks I will check out those two in CT. I would really like to seed earlier than Sep 1st, but it all depends on when I get the quinclorac. If it comes Friday, I can seed by next Friday/Saturday which would be August 24/25th. The latest the delivery will be is Wed August 22nd. That would put me in the timeframe of August 29th. I am hoping that I have enough time to germinate and get root growth for the kbg. The month of October in CT can be unpredictable. Last year we had a pretty warm period until November. I just hope the weather sticks for this year too. I was thinking of doing a 70/80/90 % KBG and 10/20/30% PRG mix. Does this make any sense or should I just go 100% KBG? Any recommendations on KBG types?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Mrotatori said:


> @Green Thanks I will check out those two in CT. I would really like to seed earlier than Sep 1st, but it all depends on when I get the quinclorac. If it comes Friday, I can seed by next Friday/Saturday which would be August 24/25th. The latest the delivery will be is Wed August 22nd. That would put me in the timeframe of August 29th. I am hoping that I have enough time to germinate and get root growth for the kbg. The month of October in CT can be unpredictable. Last year we had a pretty warm period until November. I just hope the weather sticks for this year too. I was thinking of doing a 70/80/90 % KBG and 10/20/30% PRG mix. Does this make any sense or should I just go 100% KBG? Any recommendations on KBG types?


Personally, I'd go 100% KBG, except in the bare spots, where I'd do 10-15% PR. There's enough PR in your lawn already.

Most PR is very dark green. Is yours? Can you post a few shots including close-ups of it? That will dictate what color KBG you can get away with.


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

@Green 
Here are three groups of pictures. The first is the good PRG area, and the second is the scalped area. How do I ensure good soil to seed in the scalped areas? I don't think my PR is an extremely dark green. What color KBG do you suggest?

This is an overhead view of the whole lawn.


PR Area






Scalped Area


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Thanks. I wasn't expecting that! It's either the lighting, or your PR is light green. Is there fine fescue mixed in?

To get good seed to soil contact, you'll want to rake well right before seeding and then possibly tamp the ground by walking on it or driving a riding mower on it or using a roller after you seed. Consider peat moss, too.

The groundskeeper II rake is available at Ace.

Hopefully there is enough crabgrass material left for the quinclorac. It should regrow over the next week to some exfent. The quinclorac will also serve as a pre-emergent to prevent more crabgrass for a few weeks...another reason to try to time seeding a week after. If not, the starter fertilizer with Mesotrione or liquid Tenacity might be options. Bbut honestly, if I had Quinclorac, I'd take advantage of using it.

If you don't have dark green grass, you can get away with just about any KBG except the very darkest ones. I would definitely suggest a compact America type in your blend for disease tolerance. Some examples of this class are America, Rhapsody, and Mazama. America is light to medium green. I believe Rhapsody is darker, and Mazama is definitely a dark green color, but probably still not the darkest of all KBG. You should also consider adding other classes, such as a compact midnight class cultivar, and/or a compact cultivar or aggressive cultivar or BVMG cultivar, etc. There are a bunch of types. Princeton 105 is an excellent example of one from another class, as well.

Basically, try to get 2-4 KBGs of different types, and try to match color to what you have by avoiding the very dark ones. There's tons of really good KBGs around, and I'm just giving examples as a guide.

As far as PR, if you need a bit, you might want to find a light green type, or else it might stick out, because it tends to be darker than KBG these days, and would most certainly be darker than your existing grass. The only light green PR I know of is Barenbrug RPR, but there might be others if you ask around. Or just skip it totally.


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

@Green I don't know if there is fescue in the lawn. We just moved here last winter. Thanks for the details


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