# Killing Bermuda in St. Augustine (the easy way?)



## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Just want to throw out there a new idea i have been testing recently. Noticed the attempts i would make to kill Bermuda would still leave behind some St. Augustine. Especially the lighter i would go on the spraying. It seems Bermuda is extremely sensitive to this Spectracide product contain (dicamba, fluazifop, and diquat). Only a light (almost atomized misting from just above knee height) was required to produce the results below. I started in an area that was loaded with Bermuda but had some St. Aug here and there. Then on the edges i spread out more into the areas with better and more dense st. aug. I know this stuff absolutely roasts Bermuda. My real goal here is to find out how well the St. Aug recovers as it does get a bit dinged up. Just want to mention that the spots you may see on the St. Aug is from a recent fungus battle.

The product i used was:



This is day 2 of the results so far.


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## UltimateLawn (Sep 25, 2020)

This is encouraging and I have some interest. I continue to battle bermudagrass encroachment in my StAug.

Spectracide markets this as a non-selective killer. Maybe it is taking a bit longer for the StAug to uptake the product than the bermuda. How long ago did you spray it?


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## nitrobass24 (Mar 6, 2021)

Following. I've been running a mix of Etho, Atrazine and Asulox. Atrazine has a heat restriction of 85*, but I've been spraying it when its well above to really roast the Bermuda. Actually just sprayed today, nice and hot with load of sun. It's the hottest ive sprayed it so well see if it damages the St. Aug or not.


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## UltimateLawn (Sep 25, 2020)

@nitrobass24 , is your StAug exposed to full sun, dappled light or shade?


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Day 3 Update: (st. aug still looking good amidst the shriveled up bermuda)
- another goal here will be to see if the bermuda recovers. if it does would have be from the roots because those blades are torched.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

UltimateLawn said:


> @nitrobass24 , is your StAug exposed to full sun, dappled light or shade?


Yeah the areas sprayed were full sun. 1 of there areas will start getting some shade about 6:30pm though.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

nitrobass24 said:


> Following. I've been running a mix of Etho, Atrazine and Asulox. Atrazine has a heat restriction of 85*, but I've been spraying it when its well above to really roast the Bermuda. Actually just sprayed today, nice and hot with load of sun. It's the hottest ive sprayed it so well see if it damages the St. Aug or not.


Yes, this the combination i was planning on running next year, possibly without the Assulox, but maybe with Basagran to get some of the broadleaves. Although today was the hottest you have sprayed it, how did it do on the days that were not has hot? Did the St. Aug hold up well?


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

UltimateLawn said:


> This is encouraging and I have some interest. I continue to battle bermudagrass encroachment in my StAug.
> 
> Spectracide markets this as a non-selective killer. Maybe it is taking a bit longer for the StAug to uptake the product than the bermuda. How long ago did you spray it?


Its only been 3 days so far. Completely agree on the uptake possibly taking longer for the St. Aug. However i have so much bermuda encroaching that i was willing to try anything. About 3 months or so at the side of the house i told myself that i did not care if the St. Aug dies im just going to torch this Bermuda. But i noticed the St. Aug was stilling hanging on. So to make sure my eyes did not deceive me, this is the official trial i am doing. I tried the Ortho Grass B Gon with Fluazifop (which actually works good on Torpedo) but not so well on the Bermuda. I tested both products side-by-side and the Spectracide was the clear winner for me. What is amazing is how little of the product that is needed to make the Bermuda brown. Even though i did a somewhat atomized spray, i feel i could get away with less. Another interesting thing i found was that "Ortho Grass B Gon with Fluazifop" will kill the St. Aug which i already knew, but this ingredient is also in the Spectracide and Fluazifop is a slow but thorough translocator, so will give this about 2 weeks. If the St. Aug is still there and hangs on, then this would be a very good thing. And afterwords will apply to the whole backyard. Its supposed to rain the entire week here. so will also see how that affects things.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

hmmmmm, but if fluazifop translocates slowly and this roasted the Bermuda quickly, then im willing to bet its the Diquat that has something to do with this. I've used this product many many times on Torpedo and will not again because one of the main issues was that it would do a quick knockdown on the Torpedo, but never translocate the whole root system. And the torpedo would simply grow back. And (thinking in my head) since Torpedo is in the same family as Bermuda, i now wonder if this Spectracide product will get to the roots of the Bermuda, or simply grow back. Now that i think about it, the Bermuda did brown the very next morning after spraying the previous evening. This part does not sound promising, but am holding out some hope.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Here is a related thelawnforum.com thread: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3735&start=80

- Apparently Diquat is incredibly dangerous as well.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Only reason why that ready to spray Spectracide is relatively safe and sold to consumers is the low concentration of Diquat in it. I am familiar with Reward, which is 37~% Diquat Dibromide. Skin contact is hazardous. Ingestion is potentially fatal. What I believe you are seeing is rapid contact kill of the Bermuda foliage. However, not enough Fluazafop was applied to actually kill it. St Augustine is way more sensitive to Fluazafop vs Bermuda, but when sprayed with the mix lightly, only spot or contact injury occurs at first. Really hoping the Fluazafop does not go systemic in the St Augustine.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> Only reason why that ready to spray Spectracide is relatively safe and sold to consumers is the low concentration of Diquat in it. I am familiar with Reward, which is 37~% Diquat Dibromide. Skin contact is hazardous. Ingestion is potentially fatal. What I believe you are seeing is rapid contact kill of the Bermuda foliage. However, not enough Fluazafop was applied to actually kill it. St Augustine is way more sensitive to Fluazafop vs Bermuda, but when sprayed with the mix lightly, only spot or contact injury occurs at first. Really hoping the Fluazafop does not go systemic in the St Augustine.


Yes i did notice the when spraying Orthos (fluazipof) only product on my St. Aug in hope it would not hurt it but they fluazifop did do significant damage to the SA. Yeah am also hoping it does not to systemic into the St. Aug. And if it does, hopefully it can recover from the minimal amount applied. And it was indeed rapid, overnight really. Took a look this afternoon and SA still looking good. Wish i could fast forward to 2 weeks from now. My thinking is that anything that burn the tip that good wont get the roots, this is what happens everytime i use it on torpedo, it just grows right back, however the torpedo does have a much longer root system.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Day 7 results. So far so good. St. aug blades still have grey leaf spot, and we are now getting a lot of rain. Just added some azoxy to the area. Grass was kept long to help with it surviving. Will be mowing shortly at 4.5 inches.


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## UltimateLawn (Sep 25, 2020)

If this is only bermuda foilage death (not root/rhizome), it would seem that would be enough to slow it down when doing battle between bermuda and potentially stronger StAug.

Thanks @kb02gt , Still following this one...keep the updates coming!


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

UltimateLawn said:


> If this is only bermuda foilage death (not root/rhizome), it would seem that would be enough to slow it down when doing battle between bermuda and potentially stronger StAug.
> 
> Thanks @kb02gt , Still following this one...keep the updates coming!


You got it. I'll try to post if i notice anything new happening. It seems like there has been some extra growth in that area but hard to tell at the moment. Hoping the St. Aug can hold out just a few more days.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

As of this morning. 
Note: Some thinning of grass blade (maybe soil compaction) and fungus issue. May drop some clearys 3336f later today or tomorrow. This is occurring everywhere and not just in the spots i sprayed. Still though the st. aug is a bit dinged. It was being choked out by the Bermuda, and im sure the dicamba, diquat, fluazifop combo has not helped.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

After a 4.5 inch mowing. Considering the use of a light layer of compost or some liquid dethatch or both.


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## UltimateLawn (Sep 25, 2020)

@kb02gt , fungus issue aside...it looks like the Bermudagrass is getting toasted and the StAug appears to be hanging on. Also, I used to have an Ego, but I could not get the blade height anywhere near to 4.5". I didn't know the Ego could cut that high. My Honda (Ego Replacement) cuts at 4 inches and that is significantly higher than I could ever get with the Ego. FWIW, my Ego was the first generation. I don't know if the current model is yours, but the Ego site states "7-position cutting height adjustments: 1.5"- 4" ".

Of course, if I could only get a push mower with a 6" cut then that would be nice! Right now length and the shade created by StAug blades themselves is the only reasonable non-chemical control I have for the Bermuda.

I have a lot of areas that are 50/50 mix of StAug and Bermuda. Often times I just want to slow the bermuda to help the StAug get thick enough to stop it much better. If I had more shade, then the bermuda would struggle against the StAug, but here in the summer under full sun it works the other way. Maybe with your approach that might be enough to weaken the bermuda to give the StAug a chance against it.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

UltimateLawn said:


> @kb02gt , fungus issue aside...it looks like the Bermudagrass is getting toasted and the StAug appears to be hanging on. Also, I used to have an Ego, but I could not get the blade height anywhere near to 4.5". I didn't know the Ego could cut that high. My Honda (Ego Replacement) cuts at 4 inches and that is significantly higher than I could ever get with the Ego. FWIW, my Ego was the first generation. I don't know if the current model is yours, but the Ego site states "7-position cutting height adjustments: 1.5"- 4" ".
> 
> Of course, if I could only get a push mower with a 6" cut then that would be nice! Right now length and the shade created by StAug blades themselves is the only reasonable non-chemical control I have for the Bermuda.


After a recheck, indeed looks like 4.5 inches for blade height. Whew. Was starting to 2nd guess myself there for a second. I suppose it would be possible to get a 6in height with larger wheels added to it, or some sort of thick band placed around the wheel. I do know when i purchase this Ego mower last year, there had been 1 or 2 modes before it.





UltimateLawn said:


> I have a lot of areas that are 50/50 mix of StAug and Bermuda. Often times I just want to slow the bermuda to help the StAug get thick enough to stop it much better. If I had more shade, then the bermuda would struggle against the StAug, but here in the summer under full sun it works the other way. Maybe with your approach that might be enough to weaken the bermuda to give the StAug a chance against it.


Same here with the 50/50 areas. In the full sun it is hard to keep the St. Aug thick. I do find that a 2-3 min spritz at like 11am & 1pm helps tremendously. But maybe not during the transition zone when disease pressure is high. This month the fungus has seemed relentless. Also according to @Greendoc , Bermuda prefers the surface level water and also prefers and strengthens with added Nitrogen. Was planning to add a dose of MILO @ 1/2 rate (1x/year) but will hold off as not to spur the Bermuda.

Good news: Pics below taken today about 3 hours ago and here the St. Aug is looking a lot better after a fungicide treatment and seems to be filling in the area quite well. I think this is day 8 now and at this point i see no ill effects on the St. Aug. Also good news is that this method seems to suppress the torpedo a little bit. However i know from experience the Torpedo will grow back even after a heavy spray of this stuff. But its carb stores may be getting depleted.

Bad news: The Bermuda stolons still seems a bit green in some places. I cannot tell if it was that way after the initial spray or if it came back. However, there is an area i sprayed about 1 month ago with a slightly heavier mist and the Bermuda is still dormant in that area. I did not include that as a test area because there was no real amount of St. Aug in it. However today, there is St. Aug in that area. Next weekend i will a larger chunk of an area. It too is about a 50/50 mix. So i definitely know what you mean about that. Its a terrible look in the yard for sure. Will also be re-spraying this very same area again, just to see how the St. Aug is affected, and to attempt a more permanent kill on the Bermuda.





@Greendoc if you mix a quick "tip burner" herbacide (diquat for example), with a slow release herbacide (halosulfuron, fluazifop, for example). Will the slower acting part of the mix still be taken up fully by the plant/weed?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

That is dosage dependent. When I attempt to combine Diquat with Fluazifop, I apply a 1/4 rate Diquat with the maximum rate of the Fluazifop. However, just know that what you spray with that is highly likely to re grow. Bermuda and Zoysia are examples of grassy weeds that will re grow even if that mix makes them look dead. I get better results from using the Fluazifop by itself and just waiting the 3-4 weeks.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> That is dosage dependent. When I attempt to combine Diquat with Fluazifop, I apply a 1/4 rate Diquat with the maximum rate of the Fluazifop. However, just know that what you spray with that is highly likely to re grow. Bermuda and Zoysia are examples of grassy weeds that will re grow even if that mix makes them look dead. I get better results from using the Fluazifop by itself and just waiting the 3-4 weeks.


Thanks a ton for your response on this topic. Hmmmm, so the fluazifop can take up to 4 weeks to work. In that case i will wait longer to see if my st Aug dies. Sometimes I wonder if its just quicker to kill all of it and replant.


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## DocGeo (Mar 25, 2021)

@kb02gt Thank you for creating this topic! I am in the same situation as you, have Bermuda creeping in and fighting against my st. augustine. Do you have any updates on the progress in your yard? Fingers crossed that st. augustine is still alive for ya!


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## nitrobass24 (Mar 6, 2021)

kb02gt said:


> Yes, this the combination i was planning on running next year, possibly without the Assulox, but maybe with Basagran to get some of the broadleaves. Although today was the hottest you have sprayed it, how did it do on the days that were not has hot? Did the St. Aug hold up well?


Realized i never responded. The St Aug seems unaffected by this mix. However, my most recent application seemed to do no noticeable damage to the Bermuda at all, which leaves me a bit perplexed. It's almost as if I sprayed water.


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## nitrobass24 (Mar 6, 2021)

Also @kb02gt its been about 4 weeks, is the St. Aug still holding on?


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

nitrobass24 said:


> Also @kb02gt its been about 4 weeks, is the St. Aug still holding on?


The St. Augustine has held on very well and looks (good, at least now anyway) ......... However i also had a bad case of grey leaf spot having a field day in my yard. You might be able to see how spotted some of the leaves are.

But St. Augustine growth was stunted. However it was stunted throughout my entire backyard. Therefore i cannot say it was stunted due to the herbacide. Most likely stunted due to the grey leaf.

As far as the Bermuda, i mean it looked torched. @greendoc had mentioned that the herbacide may not travel the entire root system.

The St. Aug is starting to fill in the area, however after all this rain it seems the Bermuda is getting a little strength back.

I will be doing another spray on another area with a bermuda/st.aug mix. The grass is tall enough to do so. I do this because the Bermuda seems to grow taller than the St. Aug, so when i spray the mist im hoping that all it hits is bermuda.

Because there was a good bit of Bermuda in that area, there was also a lot of brown dead bermuda, post spray.

Will post pictures a bit later today after work.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)




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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

I'll tell you what it's much easier to go in the other direction. Good luck


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Thinking you mean the Atrazine/Ethofumesate combo. Yeah i dunno, im thinking of just torching it all with fluazifop. The sides and the back. Then plugging or sodding it all. And in the meatime have that said combination on hand just incase. Or . . . just get the ethofumesate since ive got the atrazine , then go to town with it.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

kb02gt said:


> Thinking you mean the Atrazine/Ethofumesate combo. Yeah i dunno, im thinking of just torching it all with fluazifop. The sides and the back. Then plugging or sodding it all. And in the meatime have that said combination on hand just incase. Or . . . just get the ethofumesate since ive got the atrazine , then go to town with it.


If your going to sod it all then just use glyosphate. No I was meaning keep the Bermuda and get rid of the st Augustine. Haha


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

CenlaLowell said:


> kb02gt said:
> 
> 
> > Thinking you mean the Atrazine/Ethofumesate combo. Yeah i dunno, im thinking of just torching it all with fluazifop. The sides and the back. Then plugging or sodding it all. And in the meatime have that said combination on hand just incase. Or . . . just get the ethofumesate since ive got the atrazine , then go to town with it.
> ...


Lol, as the saying goes if you cant beat em join em. If i do go that route am leaning towards bitter blue since i do like that st. augustine look, and i think the bitter blue will be a little more durable. Whats back there now is a mixture of floratam and palmetto.


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## UltimateLawn (Sep 25, 2020)

NO!!! @kb02gt , fight the good fight! I'm with you!

Of course all of the hassle of trying to keep my StAug happy while at the same time losing the battle against bermudagrass encroachment has me thinking of options.

I'm leaning towards a Palisades Zoysia front yard....maybe next season.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

@kb02gt My parents had bitter blue in their yard and it did extremely well just North of you in Citrus County.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

UltimateLawn said:


> NO!!! @kb02gt , fight the good fight! I'm with you!
> 
> Of course all of the hassle of trying to keep my StAug happy while at the same time losing the battle against bermudagrass encroachment has me thinking of options.
> 
> I'm leaning towards a Palisades Zoysia front yard....maybe next season.


I hear ya man. Dunno yet. I dont want to give up the fight but at the same time i just watched a guy down the street from me roast his entire front yard like 2 months ago, has since resodded and is now back up an running in 2 months. The battle against Bermuda will take much longer than that. But im not going to do anything i guess until i figure out how to prevent bermuda and torpedo from coming in from the neighbors yard. Otherwise its a lost cause i think.

This video was just released and has some good tips. So maybe this may need to be something i do every year at least on the side of the house.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> @kb02gt My parents had bitter blue in their yard and it did extremely well just North of you in Citrus County.


Hey that's good to know. Yeah Citrus is just right down the road. How did it do fungus wise when disease pressure was high?


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

None that I remember but I was not a lawn nut back then. The only damage I remember it getting is when they put down the wrong weed-n-feed. It got decimated but eventually came back. I don't ever remember any issues with leaf spot of rhizoctonia.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> None that I remember but I was not a lawn nut back then. The only damage I remember it getting is when they put down the wrong weed-n-feed. It got decimated but eventually came back. I don't ever remember any issues with leaf spot of rhizoctonia.


This is definitely reassuring. If i decide to keep St. Aug, i cannot see going any other way, especially since it mixes well with Floratam.

Also just saw this video on different Zoysia varieties. Its resistance to quinclorac is very appealing.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

kb02gt said:


> Also just saw this video on different Zoysia varieties. Its resistance to quinclorac is very appealing.


Yeah, if your budget can handle the higher price, I would definitely go with one of the zoysias. You'll have a lot more weapons in your holster and there are varieties that can tolerate some shade. The ability to use Quinclorac was one of the reasons I swapped out my SA/centipede front yard to Empire Zoysia.


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## nitrobass24 (Mar 6, 2021)

Well I'm gonna give it a whirl. I've been doing the Attazone/etho mix all year and feel like the Bermuda did more damage than I did.

Picked up some of this spectra code concentrate and ran the low rate 16oz/1000 today. Going out of town until the 12th, let's see what happens.


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## nitrobass24 (Mar 6, 2021)

So here's the 48 hour update on the Spectracide thanks to the wife.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

nitrobass24 said:


> So here's the 48 hour update on the Spectracide thanks to the wife.


Yeah these are some great pictures. And aside from the Bermuda the St. Aug blades are looking healthy. Thanks for posting and sharing. This is exactly what my lawn had looked like as well post application. Today when i go out there its hard to tell which area was sprayed but the Bermuda did die down in said area. I'd say the St. Augustine was a bit stunted but never yellowed or died. This was good especially since the St. Aug also had grey leaf spot at the time. I still have a good bit of thatch in the area from dead Bermuda as well as some Bermuda stragglers but thats about it. Your post has reminded me i need to get out there and do another light round off this stuff.

As a side note, 2 days ago i hit the side of the house using the Ortho version of this product at full strength. Its called Ortho ground clear. The idea is to kill everything and re-sod. There is some St.Aug in that area so will monitor and post pics of that progress as well.

One thing i am curious about however is whether or not to use any Nitrogen. Bermuda loves nitrogen therefore i will need to make sure not to put down any N apps around the same time.


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## Mack (Nov 27, 2020)

My floratam SA is just over a year old and now I wish would've got the ProVista SA cause I didn't know about the wild Bermuda problem. I have thick patches of Bermuda in certain spots of my yard. Still looks good from distance but it's annoying seeing that that Bermuda.


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## nitrobass24 (Mar 6, 2021)

Yea I'm debating if I can sod this late in the season.


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## UltimateLawn (Sep 25, 2020)

@nitrobass24 , I've thought the same questions and I dropped some sod about 2+ weeks ago. It can be done, but time is running out. Fall is approaching and if we have another killer winter the sod may not have established enough.

My logic is if it isn't there yet, then just leave it after dormancy. Having done three different sod lays this year, I can say that the April/May drop is doing stellar while the July/August drops have struggled to root and survive.


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## nitrobass24 (Mar 6, 2021)

Two week update. It's certainly done some damage to my St aug, but it's overgrown and under watered since I've been on vacation.

Bermuda is very damaged. Might need a second app to really kill it off but will wait until next season to do that and let the st aug recover here as much as possible before going dormant.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

This is a tough task! I need to put out a reward for anyone who successfully kills Bermuda permanently. Rooting for yall, hope someone figures it out, would love to get rid of it in my back yard.


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## UltimateLawn (Sep 25, 2020)

@nitrobass24 , I will definitely continue to follow these updates. As it is I'm already picking out my bermuda-heavy areas to glypho next spring. So difficult dealing with bermuda when your StAug is in full sun.


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## nitrobass24 (Mar 6, 2021)

So not to be a Debbie Downer but I guess my situation was worse than I realized. Just mowed and it's clear there is tons of green Bermuda underneath. Especially where it was thick, the stolons are undamaged on the Bermuda.

Sprayed some green county D-thatch to try and speed up the decomposition process on the burnt grass as well.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

This was a few days after doing a very heavy application in a test area. About 1/2 gallon of product in a 300 sq ft area. Now this was not the Spectracide, but the Ortho version of the same thing. The diquat amount differs slightly. You can see grey leaf spot on the st. aug. Indeed the Bermuda is heavily damaged. I plan to replace the turf in this area if i can get an underground fence installed. I am going to do another heavy app. This time i will attempt to kill everything in the area. Hopefully the St. Aug does survive. Something i have noticed is that the damage St. Aug gets from a 1st dose application is mostly tip burn.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

nitrobass24 said:


> Sprayed some green county D-thatch to try and speed up the decomposition process on the burnt grass as well.


I wonder if you scalp it followed by a misting application if that would make any difference?


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

For the 2nd app am definitely considering a mix of seaweed+iron+K, or seaweed+micros+k. i cannot see the Bermuda surviving a 2nd app of this stuff. And i dont think any amount of iron, potassium, or seaweed will help it. But i think it could help the st. aug. Maybe.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

kb02gt said:


> For the 2nd app am definitely considering a mix of seaweed+iron+K, or seaweed+micros+k. i cannot see the Bermuda surviving a 2nd app of this stuff. And i dont think any amount of iron, potassium, or seaweed will help it. But i think it could help the st. aug. Maybe.


Just something to keep in mind, anything you feed the St Aug you're also feeding the Bermuda.

After my first MSM + Quinclorac app on my centipede trying to remove it from the bermuda I fertilized after about a week. I had the same thought as you. Centipede went from weak and looking terrible to back to full strength thanks to rain and fertilizer app. Basically had to start over.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Amoo316 said:


> kb02gt said:
> 
> 
> > For the 2nd app am definitely considering a mix of seaweed+iron+K, or seaweed+micros+k. i cannot see the Bermuda surviving a 2nd app of this stuff. And i dont think any amount of iron, potassium, or seaweed will help it. But i think it could help the st. aug. Maybe.
> ...


Thanks for the reply. This is interesting indeed. Sigh . . . , welp, ive just scraped that plan, lol. I don't want to take too many chances here, especially because there is only so much the st. aug can take. Yeah like you i would have been shocked to watch something like that happen.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

kb02gt said:


> Amoo316 said:
> 
> 
> > kb02gt said:
> ...


Yeah there's pics in my journal. It was going to need a second app to finish it off for good, but it legit went from deaths door to back to full strength in less than 10 days. I was like wtf, really.


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