# Pre-Emergents



## ahartzell (May 18, 2017)

What are the pros/cons of the different pre-emergents you guys use? I was going to order some Prodiamine to spray around September. The 2.5gal is expensive and from label makes it sound complicated to mix/spray. It would last like 15yrs though.

I also thought the granular Barricade...just because it's easy to throw in a spreader and put it down. Is there a reason people don't use the granular? I'm kind of tired of spraying something every few weeks :lol:


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

The Prodiamine is expensive initially but significantly cheaper in the long run. I've used granular but spraying seems to be more effective.

It's definitely more time consuming than granular but I was surprised at how fast it went one I sectioned off the yard in 1000sq ft. areas.

The first time I sprayed Prodiamine I used too much but luckily it rained and I was saved!


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

For spraying, the Prodiamine 65 WDG (Wettable Dispersible Granule) carries a cheaper up front cost than the Prodiamine 4L (liquid).

Here is a thread that discusses the granular option.


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## balistek (Jun 5, 2017)

So is it the general consensus that Prodiamine is the go to pre-em? I have SA, and I really want to be aggressive this fall with pre-em treatment. I have plenty of weeds that I would like to prevent next season. Has anyone had much experience wth Pennant Magnum? I've heard LCN talk about it on youtube


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## Rockinar (Jul 21, 2017)

I never used Pre em before this year and had serious weed issues up till this year. This year I just used the Scotts stuff along with Weed/Feed (yeah..yeah..I know better) in early Mach and it worked great. Probably 90% less weeds than last year and no crabgrass. Last year both my front and back yards were infested with crab by tis time of year. I have a bottle of Dimension but decided I don't want to mess with the liquids. Seems like a lot of room for error and with granuals you're not fighting winds (really windy where I live) and weather.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

I think it depends on what you are trying to prevent and your current turf grass. Dimension/Dithiopyr, Baracade/Prodiamine, and Pendamethalin all seem to be very effective. I *think* wetable granuals of prodiamine tend to be the most cost effective over the long term currently. With that being said, there is something to be said for rotating method of action of the chemical pre-em to help prevent resistance.


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

I was in your situation where I was debating on a granular pre emergent. I had never used a WDG and I was concerned about unfer or over applying and damagjng my soil.

My grass in the backyard was infested with crabgrass. I was out everyday hand pulling the pesky weed up. After under applying once, I was advised to do another application. Since then I haven't had to do a post emergent application as my yard is about 95% free. I live on a hill and the wind is on average around 8-15 miles per hour and i was concerned with drift and over application.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that its a little intimidating with the risks, however, it is worth it as the effects last for 6 months or more.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Getting close to needing to toss out the September-ish time frame for the fall pre m.

Having had a spray and pay service until recently, I haven't done my own pre m, and based on the success of the former company they haven't either!!

Prodiamine is on my list. I'm leaning towards the granular type to broadcast, but open to getting the WDG and buying the push cart sprayer for my roughly 4000sq ft.

I don't have many issues with different weeds, just sedge and goosegrass, and goosegrass is my nemesis and the biggest issue I have.

Oxadiazon sounds like something I need to put down as well. Anyone have a preference or experience with a source or application method ?

With that said- prodiamine down in fall, another app in early spring ( probably end feb/early March ) and then the oxadiazon in what April?

Thanks!


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

FATC1TY said:


> Getting close to needing to toss out the September-ish time frame for the fall pre m.
> 
> Having had a spray and pay service until recently, I haven't done my own pre m, and based on the success of the former company they haven't either!!
> 
> ...


Granular Prodiamine wouldn't be cost prohibitive on 4k square feet, so that's definitely an option if you don't want to spray it.

A push sprayer would work great, but in my mind you have a lawn size where a Chapin 20V backpack sprayer would probably serve you equally well.

I have never used Oxadiazon, but for Prodiamine I split the annual max and apply half in spring and half in fall.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Sorry to keep bringing up old threads, guys.

Do your own has 10% off pre emergent right now. All of them!

I have a vicious case of goosegrass. Probably because of the lack of reliable pre m this lawn company has put down in the past.

I don't have much else. Occasional sedge, crab grass, and clover from neighbors yards creeping around sometimes. I did have poa one year but didn't return this yr.

I'm leaning towards the granular ronstar g stuff.... anything someone could recommend better/ cheaper ? Goosegrass is my main driver here to control. Need some help to really change my yard around for next yr.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

FATC1TY said:


> Oxadiazon sounds like something I need to put down as well. Anyone have a preference or experience with a source or application method ?
> 
> With that said- prodiamine down in fall, another app in early spring ( probably end feb/early March ) and then the oxadiazon in what April?
> 
> Thanks!


Why are you leaning towards ronatar/oxadiazon? Is it just for the goosegrass control? Prodiamine, pendamethlin, and dithiopyr work pretty well against goosegrass but not quite as well as oxadiazon.

If you apply ronatar, I think to ronatar granular is the only way to go. Ronatar-Flo requires that the Bermuda be dormant if I recall correctly. I don't know the temp/time of year for goosegrass germination but that's going to drive your application timeline. If you use ronatar, don't spit applications; Do the full amount upfront.

Also, the off brand oxadiazon granular tends to be the same cost so take your pick.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> FATC1TY said:
> 
> 
> > Oxadiazon sounds like something I need to put down as well. Anyone have a preference or experience with a source or application method ?
> ...


Yes. Main drive is the goosegrass. It's 97 percent of the total weed population I have.

Would you do a full amount in fall, or wait to use it in the spring?

I was thinking half app of granular prodiamine end of sept, and then half oxadiazon in feb and April. Since goosegrass germinates later the April would give me the overlap, of course soil temp dependent.

Or would one be advised to use the oxadiazon in march and do a full app and call it done?


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## Llano Estacado (Jul 18, 2017)

FATC1TY said:


> Having had a spray, pay and pray service.....


Fixed it for you. :lol:

Same boat. Not paying for spraying services any more. Never been very impressed with what I got. I can get the same results for a fraction of the cost.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Llano Estacado said:


> I can get better results for a fraction of the cost.


Fixed that for you. :thumbup:


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## Llano Estacado (Jul 18, 2017)

Spammage said:


> Llano Estacado said:
> 
> 
> > I can get better results for a fraction of the cost.
> ...


 :nod:


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

FATC1TY said:


> Yes. Main drive is the goosegrass. It's 97 percent of the total weed population I have.
> 
> Would you do a full amount in fall, or wait to use it in the spring?
> 
> ...


 If you have an area that is in need of repair that I can understand going with Ronstar. However, if you're just looking for goose grass control specticle / indaziflam may be something to consider.

I believe the liquid version or even the WSP of indaziflam is significantly cheaper than the granular version, In terms of cost per application.

Barricade is going to be absolutely the cheapest out of all the options.

Approximate price per application per acre:
Prodiamine 65 WDG $13, yes $13.
Ronstar G $400
Ronstar Flo $200
Specticle G $560
Specticle Flo $140

Keep in mind, each product lasts a different amount of time per application, and that research was beyond the scope of my interest at the moment.

If your yard has a bunch of damaged areas that you're trying to fill in, then maybe Ronstar is the right choice.

If your yard is really established and you're just trying to fight back the goose grass, consider indaziflam if the prodiamine isn't doing the job. If you haven't given prodiamine a chance, you may want to for the sake of your wallet; the choice is yours.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Thank you for the info there.

I'd probably assume I have areas destroyed by goosegrass. Compaction, water erosion, clay soil and cultural upkeep.... I've inherited an issue.

I looked at specticle and it seems more expensive than the oxadiazon... liquid oxadiazon is in odd packaging and hard to figure out how to use for my size yard.

Would one "type" of pre m be fine? Am I giving up any coverage with one over the other? I will lose my freakin mind if I have to pull goosegrass next June and July.

I gave up on half my front yard this yr because of it.


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

You're over thinking this. The Prodiamine application will take care of 90%+ of the goosegrass. Pick up some some Sulfentrazone (Dismiss) for the other 10%. With proper aeration and pre-m the goose will be cooked in two years.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I would get some Prodiamine and apply half the annual max in September - then do the same thing at the appropriate time in the spring. Timing is key, and goosegrass should not be too hard to beat.

J_nick had a yard full of it during his renovation, but I'm pretty sure he'll have it whipped back into shape by this time next year - without spending a ton on fancy chemicals. :thumbup:


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## Fronta1 (Jul 11, 2017)

Just be aware that all pre emergents except oxadiazon will stunt the growth of the roots of your Bermuda as well.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Fronta1 said:


> Just be aware that all pre emergents except oxadiazon will stunt the growth of the roots of your Bermuda as well.


That may be the case, but my experience with bermuda grass has been that if you're doing everything else right you will likely end up doing other things to intentionally to suppress growth - reduced fertilizer rates, PGR, mechanical thinning via grooming and/or verticutting, etc. I know these photos (taken 2 weeks after verticutting the lawn) don't show the roots, but I would say the benefits of using Prodiamine at label rate in my program far outweigh any detrimental side effects. Everyone's situation is a little different though. :thumbup:


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Fronta1 said:


> Just be aware that all pre emergents except oxadiazon will stunt the growth of the roots of your Bermuda as well.


That's interesting... I'm pretty sure with my erosion issues and compaction of clay and rocky soil, my roots aren't good, and this is why I have thinner stands of grass and bare spots.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Why is Ronstar not safe for residential lawns?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

I don't believe I've read anything indicating that it's unsafe. It's just not labeled for use on residential lawns.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

And why is that? Just curious 
I can't get any because I have a 300G saltwater aquarium and its extremely toxic to my corals. Even though grass is outside and fish are inside I have a 5 year old who likes to play in both.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Tellycoleman said:


> ...I can't get any because I have a 300G saltwater aquarium...


Would love to see some pictures of that here. :thumbup:


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

So I've got some ronstar g in. Couple questions for discussion.

Is there a consensus that I'm wasting it in the fall and would be better using something else now, and the oxadiazon in the spring? I'm not targeting anything in particular now, as I can't recall too many issues with weeds in the fall/winter.

I got this ronstar g to target and help with my goosegrass issues, occasional crab grass near borders, clover, and sedge( if it'll even help). Goosegrass being the main driver for this.

Would adding some to the yard now help stop any additional germination from the goosegrass until the cooler weather kills it? Any benefit to a broadcast now, and then something later around dormancy like prodiamine?

Trying to pin point the ideal time to apply pre m around here in Atlanta, and if something earlier would help me control any additional summer growth.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

FATC1TY said:


> Fronta1 said:
> 
> 
> > Just be aware that all pre emergents except oxadiazon will stunt the growth of the roots of your Bermuda as well.
> ...


OMG, how did you get your lawn to look like this?? It's amazing! I need schedules for fertilizing and etc. I don't even know half of some of the acronyms y'all use too.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Suaverc118 said:


> OMG, how did you get your lawn to look like this?? It's amazing! I need schedules for fertilizing and etc. I don't even know half of some of the acronyms y'all use too.


Acronyms/ Glossary


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## Bunnysarefat (May 4, 2017)

FATC1TY said:


> So I've got some ronstar g in. Couple questions for discussion.
> 
> Is there a consensus that I'm wasting it in the fall and would be better using something else now, and the oxadiazon in the spring? I'm not targeting anything in particular now, as I can't recall too many issues with weeds in the fall/winter.
> 
> ...


I read all the links to studies you posted about preemergents in the general topics thread. They were very very interesting. It's clear that most of the products we all use probably change the roots pretty dramatically. However, is there any evidence this changes the turf quality dramatically or the plants ability to uptake the nutrients it needs?


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## Fronta1 (Jul 11, 2017)

Bunnysarefat said:


> FATC1TY said:
> 
> 
> > So I've got some ronstar g in. Couple questions for discussion.
> ...


Sorry I am having a family emergency and am unable to give you a well composed answer right now. Suffice to say, no, it doesn't mean your lawn will look like crap.


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## Bunnysarefat (May 4, 2017)

Fronta1 said:


> Bunnysarefat said:
> 
> 
> > FATC1TY said:
> ...


Oh no, it's fine. You are by no means beholden to my demands in answering my every question on the forum. I did a little searching around but had a hard time even coming up with a search string to narrow down the results I was looking to get from my question. I figured the question I asked was going to be one of those ones that someone in 7 years has the same question and they search for an hour to find someone had the same question 7 years ago and it never got answered.

I figure the only people who know the answer to this are turf managers and turf researchers, and in both cases probably not a lot is even documented on the topic or even documentable because it's anecdotal. Just thought I'd throw the question out there, maybe someone knew, wanted to do their own experiment, etc.

I thought about it for about an hour and just gave my headache going back and forth and just said screw it and put down a good dose of Prodiamine on my 11 week old hybrid Bermuda. We'll see. Live and learn. I'm sure it will be fine but I give myself all this grief over potentially, possibly, having my lawn 30% more fine? :lol: it will work out. I liked Ware's perspective on it.


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