# Grass identification



## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

Can you all help me identify this grass that is growing in my yard? It is part of what was here before we were. It's hard to tell in the picture, but if you look you can see where it's darker green and sort of a different texture than my centipede.

It's not bad at all, it just doesn't match. Lol

It's all overgrown right now, and you see a few patches I've sprayed weeds lately. Just disregard the mess it's in right now 🤦🏼‍♂️.

If we can ID the grass, is there something I can spray that will kill it but NOT my centipede?

The first order of business is getting all weeds under control, then I would like to start working this grass out and getting the centipede to start working its way toward the road.

I may have to just remove it and get more sod in later down the road.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@mwemaxxowner that is bermuda. I think pylex is the choice to remove it from centipede, but I'm not positive. We can't grow centipede here with pH at nearly 8.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I thought so, but I wanted confirmation. Many thanks!

I have wondered if I can maybe take out a foot, or maybe 2 feet, of that at the fringe of my centipede each year and let the centipede spread to replace it. I have no idea if that's a possible idea. Centipede spreads pretty slowly.

My soil is very sandy and acidic, with very little nutrition in it. It's perfect for Centipede. Also I just like Centipede. I'm not a super big fan of Bermuda.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I'm seeing a few other threads about Bermuda removal. I didn't know it was so difficult!

What was removed mechanically before I laid sod doesn't seem to be popping back up though. Maybe I just got lucky because not was pretty thin and sparse.

These patches I'm showing I've gotten nice and healthy lol. &#129318;&#127996;‍♂&#129315;

Is pursuing trying to spray it but not kill the centipede probably a list cause?

Should I just wait until I can sod it, and remove it mechanically and sod ? If I do that, and some pops back up, will it overtake the centipede in time, or will it remain just a few sprigs here and there? I'm okay with the latter!

Or, if you guys are sure I can use "pylex" and roll on, fantastic!


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## LushTurf (May 28, 2020)

I'm working on this exact same issue trying to remove some from my cousin's centipede lawn. I tried atrazine and didn't have any success... Bermuda still growing strong. I have recently read that clethodim (Tapout is the name brand I have) will work to remove it from centipede with multiple apps. I am not sure of the mix rate yet. Still more research to do. I think it's late in the growing season, making it harder to kill the Bermuda from what I have read. I'll be following your thread and will let you know if I find anything that works. One look at the price of Pylex, and I quickly determined that won't be included in my plan! There was an article from University of Georgia that I read about removing Bermuda that I'll try to find again and post here.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

Thanks for the input!

I may not get to it next season. Next year my main focus will be leveling, and driving out weeds. Once that is successfully under control, I want to focus on replacing the Bermuda patches with centipede (unless I had found that it'll be easy to do).

I was rather hoping I could do something like use a paint roller and glyph to kill, say, 12-16" worth of Bermuda at the fringe, and then place plugs from the centipede into the strip I killed to let it spread.

I was hoping I could do something like that each year to get it replaced little by little.

Sounds like even if I killed the strip successfully, the Bermuda would fill back in quicker than the centipede could take over.

If we DO discover a spray that will work on the Bermuda in a blanket app, then I will add that to my weed regimens I'll be spraying next year.


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## LushTurf (May 28, 2020)

https://secure.caes.uga.edu/extension/publications/files/pdf/B%201393_1.PDF

Here is the article I read. Short segment on removing Bermuda from centipede. It mentions clethodim and sethoxydim, but no rate for either. I'm going to test with clethodim in my cousin's yard soon. I will update here if I find anything that works.

Admins, I hope it isn't against the rules to post articles like that without proper credit. Please let me know or remove my post if it was an infraction.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

The exact rate might not be entirely necessary for me. It's somewhat well defined where the Bermuda ends and the centipede begins. I'd focus my spray primarily on the Bermuda patches. If there was a bit of collateral damage it would be okay I guess.

It would have to be early in the season to give the centipede a chance to fill it back in.

Is there anything weird I can do like scalp it when it's dormant or something that will stress it and make it weak starting next season off? &#128584;


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## LushTurf (May 28, 2020)

If you don't mind killing some of the centipede, then glyphosate is the cheap and easy fix. Spray it, let it die off, flathead shovel removal, then let the centipede spread. I may be off the mark on this because I don't have centipede to work with anymore. So somebody else may be able to help more. But that is what I would try if you don't have to kill it selectively.

Actually, if you can see a distinct line between the two grasses, I would use gluphosinate (Liberty). It is non-selective like glyphosate, but it does not translocate within the plant. So it is only a contact kill on the parts of the centipede that you spray it on. Meaning, it won't kill the whole plant.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

Oh awesome, that sounds like it might work!

Just seemed like I've read that people have had it still come back.

Also, if there is a selective route that works, I'd *prefer* that. If it's nearly impossible or it takes forever I would be okay with non selective.

Sounds like maybe I should do liberty, hit it with a string trimmer to dirt, till it, plug it with centipede in that area, and then maybe use the right selectives on sprigs that might pop back up.

I thinknit might be an issue for me that centipede spreads slowly, while Bermuda spreads more quickly.


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## LushTurf (May 28, 2020)

Oh if it's anything like around here it WILL come back! Be it from seeds in the seed bed (unless you still have a good pre-M residual), from the rhizomes, or spreading from some you didn't hit with your spray. If you don't mind the work, I'd try what you suggested, but try to spray it once before to kill it, then any trimmer/dirt work, and then once again the first time you see any come back from the ground. Then try to plug with a Pro Plugger or something, and then try to fill it in. But you probably gotta get on it pretty soon. I'd assume you growing season will be winding down before long. How big of an area would you need to redo?

Disclosure: I have no expertise in this field. Just stating what I would do as a learning, shoot from the hip type yardskeeper! And I have a fairly large yard, so my learning mistakes don't stand out horribly.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I traced out the area that's roughly where my centipede ISN'T.

I haven't pulled my tape measure or measuring wheel in any of it, but the total length there is about 120' or so.

I haven't made up my mind how close to the road I'm going to try to put a lot of effort into. It all contributes to the image of my property, but I think the setback is 15', meaning the town can come through there and do whatever they want. And they will...

Anyway I might be happy if I just have a line sort of in line with my mailbox, then from the road to there let it be whatever it'll be.

I don't think I'll do anything about this piece of the puzzle this year. I think I want to finish the season out with things looking nice, and I have a lot of other irons in the fire right now. I think you're absolutely right, there is not enough season left for the centipede to even think about filling anything back in. And I think any young runners that would be starting to take over would die during the winter.

I think I'll try to make this something I focus on at the beginning of next growing season, after green up?

I'm also wondering if it might benefit me to do a spray on the Bermuda in the fall right before everything goes dormant, and just let it sit dead over the winter, and spray the same spot again in the spring before I try to pull it up.

I might just say the heck with it and go get a pallet or two of sod for it.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I think I've decided that, when the time comes, I'm going to attack the patches with glyph as carefully as possible, remove it mechanically, and sod the bare spots and be done with it.

I haven't pulled a tape on it, and it may be fooling my eyeball, but I think 1 pallet will cover it. Maybe 2. I think it's worth 200 to get immediate centipede coverage back, vs trying to nurse it and babysit it into spreading back through those areas.

I do want to broadcast spray a selective also that will target the Bermuda, as I do have a little scattered throughout here and there that I'd like to work out over time also.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

LushTurf said:


> https://secure.caes.uga.edu/extension/publications/files/pdf/B%201393_1.PDF
> 
> Here is the article I read. Short segment on removing Bermuda from centipede. It mentions clethodim and sethoxydim, but no rate for either. I'm going to test with clethodim in my cousin's yard soon. I will update here if I find anything that works.
> 
> Admins, I hope it isn't against the rules to post articles like that without proper credit. Please let me know or remove my post if it was an infraction.


Have you made any progress?

According to that article, Envoy and Segment are my options for removing the Bermuda in Centipede. (Clethodium and Sethoxydim).

Segment is $700 for 2.5 gal, so that's probably out. Lol. Envoy is $150 for a jug, so that's something I may try.

I'm also wondering, though, what if I were to cut my big patches out with a sod cutter and re sod them with my centipede? Would I still wish I had sprayed it with glyph? I have some areas in the back yard I could put the Bermuda the I cut up and make good use of it.

The reason I got to wondering this is because I have a few areas of centipede that I think I'm going to ondo away with. Some around a tree, some in a little corner near the house that I think I'm going to turn into a needle bed with flowers and shrubs. I plan to rent a sod cutter to get that centipede up and make use of it instead of just killing it.

If I do, while I already have a sod cutter here, I could cut up the Bermuda areas too. The bigger patches near the road, of course. Not that that's maybe popping up a sprig here and there in amongst my centipede.


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## LushTurf (May 28, 2020)

You should be able to find clethodim as another product name. I know the one I used is called Tapout. It did hit the Bermuda hard, but it somewhat discolored or "ding" the centipede as well. I think cutting it out with a sod cutter would possibly work, but I would spray the dirt under it with glyph. Or wait for the Bermuda to come back out from the bare dirt, because it will, and then spray it once. However, if it was me I wouldn't do any of that until next growing season. I'll have some better answers on how well the clethodim works by then, as I intend to try to eradicate the Bermuda early next spring. The label states that will increase efficacy.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

No, I'm not doing any of this until next growing season. I'm going to get it out of dormancy, greened up and I guess fertilized before I start stressing any of it too much.

I'm just hoping to work out a solid plan before then.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

What if I just covered it with a tarp, or plywood, etc for a period of time? Just the large patches that are all Bermuda. Is Bermuda too resilient even for that?


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

I've got an invasive bermuda battle that I'm winning. Slowly. SSLLOOWWLLYY.....

Sethoxydim 18% at .75 oz per gallon. If you get bonide brand, at 13.x%, it's 1oz per gallon. BUT the label will say to use a surfactant. if you use a surfactant, it'll kill the centipede also. If you don't, I've been able to get away with 1 oz per gallon. It is a very slow action, and it doesn't kill like glyphosate, (but if you read around, youll find people are reporting glyphosate won't kill bermuda anyway). But, sethoxydim does provide a weakening effect that helps the centipede to take over. I hit the invaded area about once every 6-8 weeks. The other thing is I overspray the surrounding area, which has kept it from spreading further.

Second, DO NOT FERTILIZE!!!! Every time I fertilized, even at .25 lbs per 1ksf, the bermuda sprang back to life and started growing. I think I'd have made more progress if I had not fertilized at all. Starve it out. Centipede can survive with no fertilizer. So starving it will give another competitive advantage to the centipede.

Third, check how hard the soil is. Bermuda can grow through concrete, mortar, unobtanium, Adamantium, and yes, even hard soils. centipede won't. If the soil is really hard, hit it with humic acid on a regular basis. use liquids. If you want, use a liquid aerator, which is mostly humic acid with a surfactant.

pH is fourth one. Get it in the 5's. Picture below is almost two months ago with three months of progress.

Cut height - lower favors bermuda. Keep it around 2-2.5". The bermuda will get kinda leggy and stringy until the centipede takes over, so the area won't look great.



This was taken just now. Sorry for the angle change....


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I'm afraid I can't not fertilize it. My centipede starts to look like chit before I fertilize it! Lol Maybe I'll just have to deal with it not looking great for a season or two to get the Bermuda out. I've been afraid the sicklier looking areas would die without it. It responds nicely to a fertilizer application. Color greens up but more importantly it evens out, and I don't have patches that look better than others. I wouldn't be mad at less mowing though. It was hard to keep up with this past year.

But I've read your other posts on that. I'm going to have a soil test done and go from there. My sand is very low in nutrient value. Perhaps it's something else my soil is missing.

I have sand spurs pretty badly over the whole property. Not much in my new sod, but they are starting to pop up in it. I think that's a sign my soil is acid. They don't like alkaline soils. I think Sethoxydim is also very effective against sand spurs, so using that for the Bermuda might be a win/win!

My soil is not hard at all. It's very sandy, it even gets powdery when it gets dry around here in places where I don't have grass. It's a great blessing when I have to digs though. I have been looking into liquid aerators anyway.

I have been cutting at 2.5", I can't go any lower without scalping until I level it.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I'm surely going to mechanically remove my big patches near the road. Probably with a rented sod cutter. Then I'm going to lay centipede sod down in those areas. I'm pretty sure of that.

I still need to follow this plan though, to work out some of what's mixed in and keep it out. I've wondered if I need to spray glyphosphate on the Bermuda patches right before it goes dormant. Then pick back up on it next spring. Damage it before winter, then spray it and cut it up, lay sod, and continue with your other suggestions.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I didn't take this picture for this purpose, but I think it may do the job. Can you tell me what type of centipede this is? Common, I assume.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Yeah, it's common. I'd overseed with tifblair. It'll blend in so you cant tell the difference, but it'll be much thicker when it comes into its own. A bit more aggressive against bermuda too.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I've been thinking about that over the past few days, after reviewing some of your posts and recommendations.

I've always been told centipede is almost impossible to start from seed. If I just broadcast it, will some of it take? I'm guessing if I core aerated, broadcast the seed, then do my level and top dress it would stand a better chance.

I've just put down 6 months worth of prodiamine, so I would either have to wait until after that, or make plans to do it the year after next. Sounds like TB spreads more aggressively.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Yeah, it does kind of suck to start from seed. Aerate - seed - topdress works good. SO does slice-seeding. Keep it wet, and don't get impatient. You won't see anything for at least a month. Even most of the season, you'll feel like you wasted your money. Following spring, you'll see the yard is more lush. Second following spring is when you really see it leap forward.

If you just put down PD, you're stuck until April, but I have heard that core aerating can break up the barrier.

Alternately, you could get some tif sod, break it up, and stolonize it. As it spreads, you can tell which is which by the number of leaves on the stolons. tifblair the leaves are far more numerous and closer together.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I'm fine with that. Considering where I started, the lawn already looks great. I'm okay with a long term plan.

If the place I ordered my last two batches of sod from HAS tif, I may do that. If not I'll do seed. I liked dealing with them and they took really good care of me. My first batch of 7 pallets didn't look great, and took a LOOOOOT of extra tlc to make it do well and I still lost a little of it. They comped me 7 more pallets free, delivery and all, and the second batch was beautiful on the pallet, and took almost no effort to get it to establish. I'd like to stick with them. And they are semi local, about a 45 min drive. So from now on I'll just be heading up with a trailer behind my pickup and grabbing a pallet or two here and there.

If we're certain just a broadcast of seed into my existing grass will germinate and grow I'm fine with that, even if it takes a year. Provided I can keep the weeds at bay without a pre M.

This was my house when we closed in May



I wasn't expecting to be at this point yet, so slow progress from here is perfectly fine by me.

Actually, I never planned on sod at all. But then we realized how horrible it is living in sand with no grass. We had as much in the house as we have on the ground.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

WOW! Big improvement!


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

Thank you &#128578;.

It was pretty easy. Nothing more than a lot of time, a lot of money, a lot of water, and a lot of fertilizer!

Ok, not that much fertilizer, but more than I thought I was going to use. Lol. I'll do my best to drop that fertilizer use next year, based on your recommendations. I did two 1 lb/1000 applications.

I want to get a soil test done and look at applying micros, look into liquid aerators, PGR, etc. This year was mostly water, fert, mow, and pray. Lol

I think maybe I need to start a journal?


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I wonder if I could/should see if I can find a way to order tifblair plugs and plug it in throughout. I need an excuse to get a plugger anyway.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Yeah. You could get a partial pallet and create plugs that way. Or even, put it down, let it root, then use it as a plug source as time goes on. It's an exercise in long term vision for sure.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

Does anybody else's people (friends/family) give them hell about spending time on the grass?? Lol

It's a bit overgrown right now, and at twilight it's very easy to have a look and see where the centipede ends and the Bermuda begins. I was looking to start getting a feel for EXACTLY where I'll need to remove Bermuda and lay sod, and tomorrow maybe come up with how many pallets it'll take.

From the porch "The grass looks FIIIIIINE". &#129318;&#127996;‍♂&#129335;&#127996;‍♂ I say I have to identify the patches near the road that are a different type of grass so I can fix it next year.

It's also a running joke in what I call my "pool group". My wife and kid, another couple with a daughter about her age, and one more couple spend a lot of time at our pool together. They give me heck about it all the time. &#128580;

It's easily the best looking lawn on the block though, and it still needs a LOT of work! I think a nice yard can really set off a nice house and set it apart.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

It's very well defined right here. I wish I would have prepped and sodded all the way to the road, but I was just doing what I could afford.

That part was kind of scraggly back then, I didn't realize what kind of grass it was. The corner away from the mailbox had some existing centipede that was growing pretty well and fairly thick. It matches well, and I thought that's what it all was.

I had a budget of about $1000 so that's how much sod I bought. I had to go around the corner and down the other side also. I still wish I would have just found a way and made it happen.

It's all just grass though, right?🙂 It can still be done.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I had to Google "slice seeding". The same google search kept bringing up the drop spreaders that have spikes and will spike aerate as you spread. The spikes also drive the spreader I think. Will these work for slice seeding, or is it wishful thinking for the seed to drop into these holes?


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

For anybody who may be following along,

After more discussion with @Darth_V8r my plan will be as follows:

Since Centipede doesn't like being cut very low, and Bermuda could care less, I am NOT going to scalp and level after green up next year. I AM going to level the best I can, but I am not going to scalp it.

After green up, I'm going to rent a sod cutter and cut out my big patches of Bermuda by the road, and re sod with centipede. Two pallets will do it.



I am going to let my current prodiamine application expire. Once it does, I'm going to overseed with tifblair seed.

I'm going to starve the Bermuda out by not fertilizing. I'll have my soil tested and I may focus on some micros if I need to. Very little to no N though.

Going to treat periodically with Sethoxydim, and maybe Pylex also, and I'm going to use humic acid regularly also. We'll see how it goes!


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