# Flagpole Project!



## crussell

Starting an exciting project at the house.

A friend of mine had a line on a few old 30 foot light poles that were heading for scrap at a local refinery - I got my hands on one and just delivered it home today. I live in a neighborhood of single story houses, so at 30 feet I'm making a statement.

I ordered all the parts and pieces today - Went with an external revolving truck, an 8" gold ball, and a 5x8 flag. Next is to dig and pour my foundation block which will have 1" anchor studs for mounting, as well as cutting, welding, prep and paint on the pole.

Will update later with completed pictures, but for now here is the diamond in the rough:



And here is one that I did several years ago for a project at an old company I used to work for. This one we just buried the base in concrete and mounted a side pulley to the top of the pole.


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## SGrabs33

Very cool! Looking forward to seeing it in your yard.


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## wardconnor

Cool. I would love to have one of those


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## Colonel K0rn

'MERICA! Looking forward to seeing this. Very cool project. I've always wanted to put a masted flagpole in my front yard, and typically always pine for one of the collapsable deals they sell at the fair. My wife wants to turn it into a tree with lights around the holiday season... no way.


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## crussell

Need to seek some reassurance - are there any engineers in the house?

While I'm waiting for my components to arrive, I'm trying to figure the concrete foundation. Right now I am hoping to use a 24" diameter Sonotube (form tube) 4 foot deep in the ground, with an embeded rebar cage using 1" J-hook anchors for mounting the pole base.

a 24" cylinder @ 4 foot deep is approdimately .45 CY of concrete, roughly 1,850#

I roughly calculated the Center of Gravity to be at ground elevation figuring the numbers below. This does not include the support and stabilization of the soil itself. Should I have peace of mind that with this foundation size?

Flag pole = 30 high
Bare Flag pole weight = 330#
Estimated Weight at .5" from Top = 200# (accounting for hardware, flag, and some windload)
Estimated Base Weight = 1,850#

Here is a rendering for reference:



I'm hoping to stay with a 24" cylinder, as I don't want a 3 foot foundation in my yard. I could go deeper with the 24" if needed.


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## g-man

It is hard for an engineer to take liability of a design recommendation without any pay or insurance. If it falls down/damages property/kill someone, he could be liable and loose their license.

There are online tools/pdf to help you decide (search shoe base flag pole). You could always place the cement deeper and cover with dirt. The wider the base the better it will support the wind momentum.


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## Jgolf67

My primary career is in structural engineering, I would recommend you have someone local design the foundation and sign and seal the work. Mainly for your own insurance purposes. If it were to fall on your house or something on which you would like to make a claim, your insurance will have zero trouble getting an engineer to find its deficiencies and not pay you. A 30' pole catches serious wind load and needs a serious foundation. The engineered foundation will seem like extreme overkill to the untrained eye.

With that being said if you were still so inclined to wing it, I would advise doing some research into "ACI anchor reinforcing" this will most certainly be needed in addition to the typical rebar cage you mentioned when using a slender 24" pier. It basically prevents the j bolts from pulling the top section of concrete off and leaving the rest of the pier in the ground. Smaller piers will need to be deeper also, wouldn't surprise me if an engineered one was over the 10' mark for this application. Best of luck with your decision.


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## ken-n-nancy

I'm the wrong kind of engineer to help design this, but I wanted to let you the OP, crussell, know that I think this is an awesome project and I'm enjoying seeing the updates!

Can't wait to see the photos after it's installed!

PS: Oh, and even though I'm only an EE/CS engineer, a 3' depth doesn't seem anywhere near deep enough to me for the wind load on a 30' pole with a 5'x8' flag at the top.


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## crussell

Thank you all for the insight! I should clarify that I was not looking to solicit any professional buy-off through TLF, just wanted to use this post as a gut-check for my plans. Now having read your suggestions, my gut tells me I need to seek the help of a structural engineer. I may have some contacts through work that I can explore, and my only concern is that engineering may cost me more than what I budgeted for the whole project... But in the end I want to feel that it is over-built and not have to worry.

Thanks!
Casey


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## Alan

Following this. Keep us posted on what you end up with. If you get calcs from an engineer, I'd be interested in seeing those too. The overturning moments is your nemesis with this project. Unlike a boat or ship(other offshore structures too) stability analysis, there are no righting moments.


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## crussell

Foundation Update:

I did a lot of research over the weekend - I looked and found multiple standard plans from WSDOT (Washington State Department of Transportation), SDOT (Seattle DOT), and other municipalities. They all have standard foundation plans for signal lights. Here is an example of the standard WSDOT plan:

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/publications/fulltext/Standards/english/PDF/j26.10-03_e.pdf

The intended use of this particular foundation is for a signal pole with a cantilevered arm, and thusly the foundation must be built much more stout than my straight pole.

I am going to proceed using this as a guideline. I will dig my hole 36" in diamteter, and will go as deep as I can with a shovel and post hole digger (thinking I can get 6' deep with the post hole digger, although I may be laying on my stomach at that point).

I am going to follow their rebar design - I have #4 rebar hoops at 24" diameter, and will use #8 vertical bars.

Here is the hole I started last night. I started it at 24" diameter and will expand it to 36" now that I have solidified my plan. Was slightly heartbreaking removing this piece of turf.



Also in progress is the pole - I have prepped and primed using Sherwin-Williams Corothane I MIO-Aluminum which is from their industrial product line.

My components are estimated to arrive today and I can finish the conversion.


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## Alan

This is super cool man. I love it!!

I kinda guestimated that if you went 1/3 the height of the pole into the ground it would be good(that would have been 10'). The larger diameter from 24" to 36" can probably make up for some of the lack of depth to a point.

I quickly scanned over the dot document and I didn't see that they called out any specs for the concrete...3000psi or 3500psi??


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## Jgolf67

Good find on DOT document! That foundation looks much better, especially what is graphically shown as the anchor bolts and plate. They call out class 4000P concrete which is 4000psi and probably overkill but they use it to get high early strength and better durability on exposed portions. I would probably just use that if it wasn't crazy more expensive than a 3000 mix. Excited to see it finished! I'm sure you can find at least one neighbor in need of that perfect plug of sod. Will probably be the best part of their lawn!


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## Alan

Project status update???


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## Colonel K0rn

I'm impressed you were able to pull out a 3' plug with that depth completely intact!


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## crussell

Weekend Update!

I'm close - It's been slow going the last couple weeks, but everything is coming together. I am not always the best at taking enough pictures, but I have some to show the progress.

I finally decided on my foundation plan, using the WSDOT plan as a guideline. I dug my hole 36" wide, and got down 5'6" in depth which I am happy with. Beyond the uppermost layer of topsoil, I had clay soils for the entire depth. This was frustrating when it came to digging, but it is ideal for the support of the foundation. I ended up only using 18" of my form tube, just enough to form the portion that will be proud above ground, and about a foot below grade. Below that, the concrete will be poured to earth. I made sure that I kept the walls of the hole as smooth as possible, to eliminate any risk of the foundation heaving during freeze/thaw.

Here is the rebar design I drew up - Uses vertical #8 and #4 hoops. The anchor studs are 36" long, 1" diameter and have a 3" bend.





I originally had purchased these 18" Anchors - But decided I wanted to overbuilt this as much as possible and went with the 36" here is a side x side comparison.



Meanwhile - I had some time into cutting/welding on the flag pole itself for conversion. I am using an external revolving truck that mounts via 1 1/4" threads. I capped the top of the pole and welded on an appropriately sized nut. (Please no weld police, I wasn't welding in ideal positions. Also you may notice the nut is not perfectly centered, I'm not letting that bug me right now).





Yesterday was a big milestone, concrete was poured! I managed to score a pretty good deal with the local readymix company that is just down the road. They were running trucks this weekend and said they could call me when a truck was coming back with extra material. I ended up getting it delivered for about half price.



The pour went well for the most part - Only issue was since the mud was chuted from one side, it started to slide my cage out of center. Not a big deal.

I am no concrete finisher, but I'm happy with how it turned out. I am holstering a "plan B" in case the final look is not aesthetically pleasing. I may decide to place a few rows of retaining blocks and build a small flower bed over the foundation.

I noticed the form tub must have been out of round, because the foundation is not a perfect circle. It's about 1" out of round, but again I can defer to "plan-B" if it's noticeable.



Here is the look from the street, I'm ready to see the final product put in place!



Items remaining - I have only primed the pole and will be painting it with white polyurethane. I have the remaining components that will go on, and lastly I need to start planning how to erect this thing... I had access to a boom truck but that fell through, so back to the drawing board.



Will follow up when I have more to share!


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## Lawn_newbie

I love reading threads like this.

I really need to build a small shop and learn to weld and take on some DIY projects.


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## Smokindog

What are you doing for lightning ground?


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## crussell

Smokindog said:


> What are you doing for lightning ground?


I drove two pieces of rebar into the earth that are fixed to the cage. As I understand it, since concrete is not known for its conductivity they advise grounding to dirt. They do sell kits for this purpose, and maybe I should have but after reading this article I did not think it was a high priority. http://www.weatherimagery.com/blog/do-lightning-rods-attract-lightning/


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## Alan

Thanks for the update.

I was talking to a buddy(who works for the local utility company) about this project and asked if he could borrow one of the trucks with one of those big augers on it for setting poles and he said it's a possibility. That would be making the hole a snap.


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## Jconnelly6b

Welds look great! They're going to be 30' up in the air, you won't see them after the pole is righted.

You are definitely your biggest critic... the pour looks beautiful, I think it all looks awesome, and I inspect sanitary welds on a regular basis. Can't wait to see the final result. Excellent work so far.


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## g-man

How long will you wait for the concrete to cure before placing the post?


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## crussell

Alan said:


> Thanks for the update.
> 
> I was talking to a buddy(who works for the local utility company) about this project and asked if he could borrow one of the trucks with one of those big augers on it for setting poles and he said it's a possibility. That would be making the hole a snap.


That would be a nice luxury to have!



Jconnelly6b said:


> Welds look great! They're going to be 30' up in the air, you won't see them after the pole is righted.
> 
> You are definitely your biggest critic... the pour looks beautiful, I think it all looks awesome, and I inspect sanitary welds on a regular basis. Can't wait to see the final result. Excellent work so far.


Thanks! I have to remind myself that I'm the only one who will ever notice these small things..



g-man said:


> How long will you wait for the concrete to cure before placing the post?


This is going to depend on how long I take to conceive my erection plans... There is a general misconception that concrete takes 28 days to cure, which is used as a baseline but the reality is that concrete often meets it's design strength in a much faster time. The 28 days is more related to standard testing requirements, and not directly related to curing. To answer your question, I'm hoping to erect the pole next weekend which will be 7-8 days cure time. My pole only weighs 330# so there is very little compression load once it's placed.


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## g-man

Yes I know the 28 day is just a guideline (most are fully cured at that point based on a log decay curve), but it very dependent on the shape and the environmental conditions. Since most of it is underground, it might not release the moisture as fast as above ground, but it does have a more constant cooler temperature from the surrounding soil.


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## Smokindog

I believe you said you used "overun" from the concrete company. On the paperwork when you paid them did it not tell you the "type/strength/mix of product" and cure time to certain strengths? If not, I'd call them. These numbers can have a lot of variance and for something this heavy I'd want to be sure.


crussell said:


> This is going to depend on how long I take to conceive my erection plans... There is a general misconception that concrete takes 28 days to cure, which is used as a baseline but the reality is that concrete often meets it's design strength in a much faster time. The 28 days is more related to standard testing requirements, and not directly related to curing. To answer your question, I'm hoping to erect the pole next weekend which will be 7-8 days cure time. My pole only weighs 330# so there is very little compression load once it's placed.


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## dfw_pilot

I don't have it in the budget to buy a big flag like that every few months, but I'll live vicariously through you. Wow, what an awesome project!


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## crussell

Smokindog said:


> I believe you said you used "overun" from the concrete company. On the paperwork when you paid them did it not tell you the "type/strength/mix of product" and cure time to certain strengths? If not, I'd call them. These numbers can have a lot of variance and for something this heavy I'd want to be sure.
> 
> 
> crussell said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is going to depend on how long I take to conceive my erection plans... There is a general misconception that concrete takes 28 days to cure, which is used as a baseline but the reality is that concrete often meets it's design strength in a much faster time. The 28 days is more related to standard testing requirements, and not directly related to curing. To answer your question, I'm hoping to erect the pole next weekend which will be 7-8 days cure time. My pole only weighs 330# so there is very little compression load once it's placed.
Click to expand...

The truck ticket noted that I had a foundation mix - I'm guessing there were pouring residential footings. I'll reach out to their QC guy and confirm the rating, but I'm assuming it's a 3,000 psi mix.


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## crussell

I am chewing on one more thing, if anybody wants to weigh in.

My plan was to fasten nuts both above and below the flagpole mounting base. The lower nuts would be used to plumb the pole, and the top ones torqued to secure the base.

In theory, the weight of the pole (~330#) would be supported by the 1" studs, and not resting directly to the concrete.

My other option would be to use shims between the concrete and the base plate, so that the load of the pole is on the concrete itself.

The double nut option seems more user friendly, and I don't see it as any reason for concern. 4 each 1" studs should easily handle the load, but I have been giving this some consideration.


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## Smokindog

Don't hold me to this but I think basement wall is 5K or better and takes a month to reach 4K. Given your pour is much thicker than a standard wall, that may change.

I'd be curious as to how much heat that 3 foot cylinder is generating a couple feet down 

EDIT - did some quick checking and I think I'm wrong on the 5K but can't find the definitive for your area. I do know it's a higher requirement for areas that get "severe cold weather"......

EDIT 2 - looks like you're close based on this 
https://www.spokanecounty.org/DocumentCenter/View/639/BP-12-Foundation-Requirements-PDF



crussell said:


> Smokindog said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you said you used "overun" from the concrete company. On the paperwork when you paid them did it not tell you the "type/strength/mix of product" and cure time to certain strengths? If not, I'd call them. These numbers can have a lot of variance and for something this heavy I'd want to be sure.
> 
> 
> crussell said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is going to depend on how long I take to conceive my erection plans... There is a general misconception that concrete takes 28 days to cure, which is used as a baseline but the reality is that concrete often meets it's design strength in a much faster time. The 28 days is more related to standard testing requirements, and not directly related to curing. To answer your question, I'm hoping to erect the pole next weekend which will be 7-8 days cure time. My pole only weighs 330# so there is very little compression load once it's placed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truck ticket noted that I had a foundation mix - I'm guessing there were pouring residential footings. I'll reach out to their QC guy and confirm the rating, but I'm assuming it's a 3,000 psi mix.
Click to expand...


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## crussell

QC said it is a 3,000 psi mix and I should have strength in 5 days - I am looking to put up this weekend.


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## g-man

I think the double nut (with washers) is the better option to be able to adjust the pole to be on axis. You could also try to place the nuts as low as possible to have one in the concrete. I would go, washer, nut, washer, plate, washer and two nuts (locking it).


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## Alan

I can hardly wait for righting day. :thumbup:


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## Jgolf67

Nice job, quality looking work! Double nuts and washers is a pretty common way of attaching column and pole bases. If the base plate hole is less than 1/8" larger than the anchor bolt you could get away without the washer. I would put them in, once the pole is plumbed mix up some grout (non-metallic masonry) and pack fill it under the base plate to protect the anchors and add additional bearing surface. Mix the grout on the dry side so it holds its shape and can be packed in without flowing back out. This is how almost all building columns and many pole projects are erected.


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## crussell

g-man said:


> I think the double nut (with washers) is the better option to be able to adjust the pole to be on axis. You could also try to place the nuts as low as possible to have one in the concrete. I would go, washer, nut, washer, plate, washer and two nuts (locking it).


This sounds like a good approach.



Jgolf67 said:


> Nice job, quality looking work! Double nuts and washers is a pretty common way of attaching column and pole bases. If the base plate hole is less than 1/8" larger than the anchor bolt you could get away without the washer. I would put them in, once the pole is plumbed mix up some grout (non-metallic masonry) and pack fill it under the base plate to protect the anchors and add additional bearing surface. Mix the grout on the dry side so it holds its shape and can be packed in without flowing back out. This is how almost all building columns and many pole projects are erected.


I'm 100% on board with grouting afterwards. Will just be one more thing... Ha this damn $110 pole really seemed like a bargain but man has this project snowballed.


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## Colonel K0rn

You know, a flagpole righting live stream would be awesome to watch. I'd tune in!


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## crussell

Colonel K0rn said:


> You know, a flagpole righting live stream would be awesome to watch. I'd tune in!


You'd be watching a lot of head scratching... and I don't want to spoil the ending but it might involve a large pole falling onto a parked car.


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## Ware

crussell said:


> ...it might involve a large pole falling onto a parked car.


You had my curiosity, but now you have my attention. :shock:


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## Smokindog

Curious if you looked at any commercial products/installs while considering your flagpole. Only reason I asked is that I've got a basketball pole anchor with a 9 inch square bolt pattern I've many times thought about for a flagpole. I let the previous owners keep their goal. It was probably the most robust home basketball goal I'd ever seen, high end outdoor playground quality.

If you did, can you share your research?

THX in advance.

PS - can't wait to see the completed project.


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## dfw_pilot

I thought that all you had to do to right the pole was this:


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## crussell

Big day today.


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## crussell

Project Update - Success!

I settled on using a tow behind manlift trailer to right my pole. This was after much deliberation, but ultimately I had no other choice.

This route was first and foremost, budget friendly. The lift has a 500# rating in the basket, more than enough to lift the entire pole if rigged to a good anchor point. The machine is also equipped with ground controls, so initially I thought I would use it like a crane. That was until I realized that I would need a way to un-rig my strap 30 feet in the air, so I decided to fly the boom from the basked (+/- capacity now). We decided rather than lift the pole and put that much load on the boom, we positioned the pole base near the foundation and leaned the pole upright, while my ground grew positioned the base over the studs.



Couldn't resist the aerial lawn photo.



And the final product.



Thanks for following - This was a fun project for me, although costly. Start to finish this took me just under 1 month.

I did a short time lapse video of the install - But I don't know that I can post it?


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## Gibby

crussell said:


> Project Update - Success!
> 
> I settled on using a tow behind manlift trailer to right my pole. This was after much deliberation, but ultimately I had no other choice.
> 
> This route was first and foremost, budget friendly. The lift has a 500# rating in the basket, more than enough to lift the entire pole if rigged to a good anchor point. The machine is also equipped with ground controls, so initially I thought I would use it like a crane. That was until I realized that I would need a way to un-rig my strap 30 feet in the air, so I decided to fly the boom from the basked (+/- capacity now). We decided rather than lift the pole and put that much load on the boom, we positioned the pole base near the foundation and leaned the pole upright, while my ground grew positioned the base over the studs.
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't resist the aerial lawn photo.
> 
> 
> 
> And the final product.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for following - This was a fun project for me, although costly. Start to finish this took me just under 1 month.
> 
> I did a short time lapse video of the install - But I don't know that I can post it?


This is awesome, and heck yeah share the video.


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## Ware

crussell said:


> I did a short time lapse video of the install - But I don't know that I can post it?


You'll have to upload it to youtube, then just copy a link to the video into a post here.


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## SGrabs33

Very cool and I really enjoyed following the project!


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## crussell

Here's the time lapse - I couldn't figure out if you can adjust the time lapse frequency on an ipad, so the video is really short.

https://youtu.be/c5vOr04UTQw


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## Alan

Great job! Thanks for sharing this with us all.


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## Smokindog

AWESOME!!!!

How did you determine it was plumb given it's a tapered pole??


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## Cincinnati guy

Are adding any lights for night time? Btw it looks awesome!


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## Gibby

Cincinnati guy said:


> Are adding any lights for night time? Btw it looks awesome!


This. Please add a light or take the flag down at night.


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## crussell

Smokindog said:


> AWESOME!!!!
> 
> How did you determine it was plumb given it's a tapered pole??


I used a string with a nut tied to the bottom, then I stood way back and held the string out so that I could eye ball it for plumb. Worked pretty well, did it from all directions.


Gibby said:


> Cincinnati guy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are adding any lights for night time? Btw it looks awesome!
> 
> 
> 
> This. Please add a light or take the flag down at night.
Click to expand...

Spot light is next on the list - For now I'll be taking down at night and putting up before I head to work in the mornings.


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## crussell

I could use some help picking a spotlight.

If you look at the photo above, I'm hoping to place a spotlight in the nearby flowerbed (~15 ft) at the corner of the house.

I browsed some of the lighting projects like @Ware and @Harts and see that Volt Electric seems to be the go-to brand. From what I can tell, a spotlight, transformer, wire, and everything all in is going to cost me about $450 for one light... Does this seem right? or is there an easier path?

I suppose I could always expand on this system later, but right now I've had no plans of landscape lighting.


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## ericgautier

This is awesome!


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## Ware

crussell said:


> I could use some help picking a spotlight.
> 
> If you look at the photo above, I'm hoping to place a spotlight in the nearby flowerbed (~15 ft) at the corner of the house.
> 
> I browsed some of the lighting projects like Ware and Harts and see that Volt Electric seems to be the go-to brand. From what I can tell, a spotlight, transformer, wire, and everything all in is going to cost me about $450 for one light... Does this seem right? or is there an easier path?
> 
> I suppose I could always expand on this system later, but right now I've had no plans of landscape lighting.


Not sure if it would scale well, but I think @DJLCN has one of those that mount to the top of the pole.

Maybe something like this?


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## Harts

Maybe @EvanK can help out with this. He is a new member here and works for Volt.

Evan, any suggestions to help @crussell?


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## EvanK

Greetings all,

Apologies as I was out of the office yesterday.

I would be happy to provide @crussell with some insight!



crussell said:


> I could use some help picking a spotlight.
> 
> I browsed some of the lighting projects like Ware and Harts and see that Volt Electric seems to be the go-to brand. From what I can tell, a spotlight, transformer, wire, and everything all in is going to cost me about $450 for one light... Does this seem right? or is there an easier path?


This is certainly one way to go about it if you wished to use a low-voltage fixture. More often than not, we actually see installers using 120V fixtures for flag pole lighting. Of course, while the step-down transformer and other low-voltage related items are not needed, a licensed electrician is needed for installing a line-voltage fixture.

Here is a project photo from our website for some visual reference: https://www.voltlighting.com/project-dramatic-flag-lighting/p/project-flag-lighting-1 
Here, the installer used (2) 120V 17W LED spot lights to ensure that all sides of the flag were well-lit at nighttime.

Whether you desire low-voltage or line-voltage, the fixtures and accessories (such as a flag pole mount) are certainly available to help illuminate your flag!


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## DJLCN

Ware said:


> crussell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I could use some help picking a spotlight.
> 
> If you look at the photo above, I'm hoping to place a spotlight in the nearby flowerbed (~15 ft) at the corner of the house.
> 
> I browsed some of the lighting projects like Ware and Harts and see that Volt Electric seems to be the go-to brand. From what I can tell, a spotlight, transformer, wire, and everything all in is going to cost me about $450 for one light... Does this seem right? or is there an easier path?
> 
> I suppose I could always expand on this system later, but right now I've had no plans of landscape lighting.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if it would scale well, but I think @DJLCN has one of those that mount to the top of the pole.
> 
> Maybe something like this?
Click to expand...

Here is the flagpole and solar LED light I installed earlier this year.

21 FT Heavy Duty Tapered Telescoping Silver Aluminum Tangle Free No Furl Residential Flagpole WindStrong® 2.5 Inch Butt MADE IN THE USA 5 YR WARRANTY & 3x5 US Nylon Flag By Valley Forge https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0196UWQD8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_ijxFBb0ZRNDWH

Deneve Solar Flag Pole Flagpole Light, LED Downlight Most 15 to 25 Ft in-Ground Flag Poles, Fits 0.5" Wide Flag Ornament Spindles https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JYQV4AA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_OjxFBb2QQAHER


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## crussell

EvanK said:


> Greetings all,
> 
> Apologies as I was out of the office yesterday.
> 
> I would be happy to provide @crussell with some insight!
> 
> 
> 
> crussell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I could use some help picking a spotlight.
> 
> I browsed some of the lighting projects like Ware and Harts and see that Volt Electric seems to be the go-to brand. From what I can tell, a spotlight, transformer, wire, and everything all in is going to cost me about $450 for one light... Does this seem right? or is there an easier path?
> 
> 
> 
> This is certainly one way to go about it if you wished to use a low-voltage fixture. More often than not, we actually see installers using 120V fixtures for flag pole lighting. Of course, while the step-down transformer and other low-voltage related items are not needed, a licensed electrician is needed for installing a line-voltage fixture.
> 
> Here is a project photo from our website for some visual reference: https://www.voltlighting.com/project-dramatic-flag-lighting/p/project-flag-lighting-1
> Here, the installer used (2) 120V 17W LED spot lights to ensure that all sides of the flag were well-lit at nighttime.
> 
> Whether you desire low-voltage or line-voltage, the fixtures and accessories (such as a flag pole mount) are certainly available to help illuminate your flag!
Click to expand...

Do you think this would work well from the flower bed (see previous photo)? I have electrician friends that could handle the wiring. Or do you think the 12v would illuminate well from the flower bed? I don't mind spending on the transformer so that I can expand later.

I briefly considered forming a conduit into my foundation but I cut that corner, so now I don't have an easy means of running power to the flagpole base.

Dont think the top mounted lighting would work for my pole. I have a 4" OD at the top with a 5/8" spindle.


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## Smokindog

Have you "felt out" your neighbors and checked on local ordinances about lighting your 30 foot pole? I'm all for a nicely lit flag at night but IMO you're now getting into some issues that people can get pretty sensitive about.

Before investing in lighting I think I would mull over the reactions of both your neighbors and the town/city/burg in which you live. But that's just me


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## EvanK

> Do you think this would work well from the flower bed (see previous photo)? I have electrician friends that could handle the wiring. Or do you think the 12v would illuminate well from the flower bed? I don't mind spending on the transformer so that I can expand later.
> 
> I briefly considered forming a conduit into my foundation but I cut that corner, so now I don't have an easy means of running power to the flagpole base.
> 
> Dont think the top mounted lighting would work for my pole. I have a 4" OD at the top with a 5/8" spindle.


I am not familiar with the 'Cree-Disc' light device that mounts on the top of the pole; at first glance I thought it was solar powered but, it does appear you would have to run power to the flag pole to use that device.

I'd hate to tell you to 'shimmy-out' a 6 inch deep trench from the corner of the garden to the flag pole to lay some low-voltage cable, considering your pristine lawn and the fact that the cable would need to be ran through the brand new cement base to conceal it.

Considering what you have described, the corner of the flower bed would more than likely be the most convenient spot for you to install a spotlight or floodlight. Given the distance from the flag pole itself and that only one fixture would probably be used, I would recommend using a fixture with a higher level of lumen output. The only concern here, whether it be low or line voltage, would be unwanted glare possibly trespassing into the sidewalk and streets (which could be a bothersome to walk by or even upset neighbors for whatever reason). This is just a concern of course; if the fixture were angled high enough this may not even pose an issue for you.


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## crussell

EvanK said:


> Do you think this would work well from the flower bed (see previous photo)? I have electrician friends that could handle the wiring. Or do you think the 12v would illuminate well from the flower bed? I don't mind spending on the transformer so that I can expand later.
> 
> I briefly considered forming a conduit into my foundation but I cut that corner, so now I don't have an easy means of running power to the flagpole base.
> 
> Dont think the top mounted lighting would work for my pole. I have a 4" OD at the top with a 5/8" spindle.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not familiar with the 'Cree-Disc' light device that mounts on the top of the pole; at first glance I thought it was solar powered but, it does appear you would have to run power to the flag pole to use that device.
> 
> I'd hate to tell you to 'shimmy-out' a 6 inch deep trench from the corner of the garden to the flag pole to lay some low-voltage cable, considering your pristine lawn and the fact that the cable would need to be ran through the brand new cement base to conceal it.
> 
> Considering what you have described, the corner of the flower bed would more than likely be the most convenient spot for you to install a spotlight or floodlight. Given the distance from the flag pole itself and that only one fixture would probably be used, I would recommend using a fixture with a higher level of lumen output. The only concern here, whether it be low or line voltage, would be unwanted glare possibly trespassing into the sidewalk and streets (which could be a bothersome to walk by or even upset neighbors for whatever reason). This is just a concern of course; if the fixture were angled high enough this may not even pose an issue for you.
Click to expand...

Evan,

Just placed my order for an Infinity 60 G3 LED Spotlight (12v) with an extended glare guard and the 35 degree optic. Looking at the angle, the light should not pollute any neighboring houses or streets as it will be aimed rather high.

With this light, got the 100 watt transformer and some cable - I'm figuring that one day I'll expand my lighting.

Thanks,
Casey


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## EvanK

> Evan,
> 
> Just placed my order for an Infinity 60 G3 LED Spotlight (12v) with an extended glare guard and the 35 degree optic. Looking at the angle, the light should not pollute any neighboring houses or streets as it will be aimed rather high.
> 
> With this light, got the 100 watt transformer and some cable - I'm figuring that one day I'll expand my lighting.
> 
> Thanks,
> Casey


Awesome! Good call on the transformer; we always recommend accounting for future expansion when deciding on transformer sizes.

I look forward to seeing some pictures of the final result!

Thank you for choosing Volt.


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## Harts

@crussell this is going to look great! You're going to love the quality of these products.

Can't wait to see the final result.


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## crussell

EvanK said:


> Evan,
> 
> Just placed my order for an Infinity 60 G3 LED Spotlight (12v) with an extended glare guard and the 35 degree optic. Looking at the angle, the light should not pollute any neighboring houses or streets as it will be aimed rather high.
> 
> With this light, got the 100 watt transformer and some cable - I'm figuring that one day I'll expand my lighting.
> 
> Thanks,
> Casey
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome! Good call on the transformer; we always recommend accounting for future expansion when deciding on transformer sizes.
> 
> I look forward to seeing some pictures of the final result!
> 
> Thank you for choosing Volt.
Click to expand...

@EvanK I just went to check something on the website and notice there was a 10% Labor Day Discount! I either missed this completely, or it wasn't advertised yet this morning. Regardless I didn't enter the promo. Do you think Customer service would retro this discount?

Also - I see there is a "Big Dog" spotlight that uses the M16 bulbs. There is a 7w LED with 12 degree beam, which is a much more focused beam angle vs. the one I ordered. Do you think this would be better for the application? If so I may just get it coming. Thanks!


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## crussell

I just ordered another fixture - The "All-Star" Spotlight and I went with a 12 degree beam and 7w LED lamp.


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## crussell

Also Customer Service credited me back for the items eligible for discount! Thanks Volt!


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## dfw_pilot

Smashing!


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## EvanK

crussell said:


> Also Customer Service credited me back for the items eligible for discount! Thanks Volt!


My apologies @crussel , as I was out of the office recently.

Yes! I was going to confirm that our customer service would certainly retroactively apply the discount for you.

You hit the nail on the head; I would definitely recommend the narrowest beam spread possible for your application. Given the fact that you essentially want to achieve the maximum amount of surface area of light illuminating the flag, and have a distance between the objects to account for, that would be the best route.


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