# FuzzeWuzze Tiny Mazama Mono Reno



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

I'll be documenting my small renovation here. I have a total of about 2800 Sqft on my property, 1k in the back and 1800 split across 5 other area's. 3 Street/hell strips, and 2 small patches on either side of my driveway(300 and 600 sqft).

I'm beginning by renovating the 600 sqft section this Fall as an experiment to see how well KBG will do in our climate. Everything says it doesnt do well here because of fungal pressure and how wet it is here a majority of the year, but these were also studies by Oregon State written in the early 90's and a lot has changed in terms of disease resistance in these cultivars, plus im not opposed to spraying Azoxy or Prop if needed.

I had to contain myself to not do the entire front 1800 sqft, although if im being honest its not completely off the table at this point although i'll need to make that decision soon.

The goal is do at some point do the 1k sqft back yard, but we are having a paver patio put in which wont be complete until the end of August and by then its probably going to be too late to seed KBG in our climate but again i'm not entirely sure and could use some input. Our average temps in Oct are 63/43, so maybe if i have everything dead in August and can put seed down in the first week of September it will have 2 good months of 60+ weather to get going? One thing of note is that we do not really freeze here, we may get a few days of snow or below freezing temps but its extremely rare for it to last more than 2-3 days so im not too worried about winter kill if i can get them established.

This is the lawn as it is today, a mix of 3 way Rye blend + Bewitched. Regrets were made not just doing straight Bewitched, so here we are again renovating. I really want to break the overseeding/watering cycle, as it gets quite expensive every year overseeding Rye and running my sprinklers for a week to give it a chance to grow. Plus new 1-2 year old Rye seems to seed VERY heavily here, so every year I loathe having to put more seed out knowing the next year its going to look like a stemmy mess for most of late spring/early summer when it should look its best.

https://imgur.com/a/qa2rtMv

General Timeline
Spray Glyphosate + AS - 7/26/19
Mow/Scalp/Scarify w/ Sunjoe dethatcher on lowest setting - 8/3/19 (or earlier if it dies faster)
Glyphosate any remaining green - 8/3/19
Tenacity + Seed down w/ Peat - 8/10/19


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

I will be following good luck with your small kbg reno


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Been just over a week since initial glypho, sprayed again a day before taking this pic so most if the color left is dye but i saw some green. Mowed down to like 1.5" before respraying the entire area to make sure i got any grass hiding down lower under the canopy.

Also having a paver patio put in the back next week or two so everyone is spraying and flagging my yard everywhere. Going to wait until they start on Monday and see all the marks before i scalp it low, dethatch on your lowest setting and rake everything level.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

very cool, @FuzzeWuzze. I have Mazama growing in a bluegrass mix, and I really like it. I am wondering if your bluegrass might continue to grow through the winter, especially as temps sound mild.

It looks like the target area is pretty shady. I'm curious if there might also be a small, sunny area of your lawn?
My thinking is that more sunlight might help reduce moisture, which may help with disease pressure. Those conditions might give you a better fighting chance. Just a thought.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

social port said:


> very cool, @FuzzeWuzze. I have Mazama growing in a bluegrass mix, and I really like it. I am wondering if your bluegrass might continue to grow through the winter, especially as temps sound mild.
> 
> It looks like the target area is pretty shady. I'm curious if there might also be a small, sunny area of your lawn?
> My thinking is that more sunlight might help reduce moisture, which may help with disease pressure. Those conditions might give you a better fighting chance. Just a thought.


This is probably the section that gets the most sun in the front yard, probably 6 hours or so, my back yard is the only area that gets true full sun. The rest of the front yard goes from mottled sun/shade throughout the day to an area that i know during Fall and Winter gets little to no sun because its so low in the sky here the house blocks most of the sun. Unfortunately i cant do much about the tree's in the front as they are HOA tree's, ive cut them back(up) as much as i realistically can with a 15 foot pole saw without making the HOA mad. I know bluegrass can grow, i had bewitched in my mix before and its doing reasonably well, its just the rye thats killing my soul, i'll take a picture of my front yard area tommorrow to show how bad the seed stalks are, just like they were on my first year PRG in the back yard last year. Unfortunately i had already done the front with Bewitched+Same PRG blend as the back before my back yard took a dump and brown seed stalks were every inch(literally) across 1k sqft. No joke it went from lush soft carpet on your bare feet to like walking on a field of soft toothpicks. The backyard is great now the 2nd year it isnt seeding very much, but i know eventually i'll have to overseed and ill be dealing with it again and i dont want that. If i cant get KBG with this experiment im going to just go buy a bunch of 4th Millenium TTTF or something and go that route. But you are right we do have very mild winters here and our grass generally stays green for 10 months out of the year. Its only July/August that you really need to irrigate.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Good luck! This is quite interesting. I will be following this thread.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

This is an example of what im dealing with this prg going to seed. You can see how bad it looks, but if you look closer you realize 99 percent of the browning is dead stalks, I'll probably run over this area with my electric dethatcher just to pull them out, thin or not at least it will be green like the last pic which is a small area without many stalks in the same area of grass. You can see the bewitched down under there nice and dark doing its thing below all this brown crap.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Not much update, but one nonetheless.

Scalped the yard as low as my mower would go.
Took out the Sunjoe dethatcher and set it as low as it would go and did 3 passes on my lawn. I actually found that pulling it backwards, even though they explicitly tell you not too did the most damage. I'm assuming thats why they tell you not to do it as it will rip your grass out like nothing else, probably not great for the tines but i have a spare set. This ripped out a lot of grass but there is still a pretty good bit of it, but there should be plenty of dirt available to get seed onto. I will say the area's that were damp seemed to rough up better, probably easier for it to rip out. If nothing else the .5" of grass stalks may help provide a bit of shade for the seed. I'll still be putting down some peat just to be safe on seed day.

Also because i had exactly 5oz of Glypho left i sprayed it all one last time now that its all opened up to make sure i got everything.

Tentative plan is to water to get it damp, and then run the dethatcher over it again one last time some time this week and see if i can get anything else up. I wanted to take my reel mower out to scalp it all the way to the dirt but its carb is fouled and not sure I can fix it by this weekend we'll see.

Saturday/Sunday will be seed down + Tenacity + Starter Fert. The lawn gods seem to be on my side and its going from 90+ this week to 70 and cloudy on Saturday and Sunday.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Today was seed down day. Everything went more or less as planned. The weather gods have answered my prayers and from the 85-90+ weather we've had the last few weeks it went to 70 and overcast today. Within an hour or two of me finishing it also rained about .75 inches and is still sprinkling. On top of it our weather forecast couldnt look better for the next 10 days in the 70s and low 80's and overcast, so I should have no issues keeping it watered with all the clouds.

First I watered, and double checked all my sprinklers in the zone were getting proper coverage. Check.
Once the ground was nice and wet i went through again with my SunJoe dethatcher set on High(max depth) ane ripped some more stuff out. Any green you see left is just the green lazer die/round up i applied several days ago.

Added extra benefit, as you can see in the picture it creates nice trenches if your dirt is soft, almost like a slit seeder. 
Seed went down at 2# total for the 650 sqft, so somewhere in the vicinity of 3# per 1k which was the recommended rate by the producer and also what @NoslracNevok did on his Mazama https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5204 area's that turned out so well. I then rolled it in with a rented roller that worked well.

Put down .75# N in 16-16-16 fert, sprayed Tenacity at the 8oz/Acre rate, which turned out to be about half a tsp for 600 sqft. Probably had a bit less overall because i didnt spray the entire tank on it, probably 3/4ths of the gallon,, but this area has never really had weed pressure thankfully so i am not that worried even if it was as low as 4oz/Acre it will do fine. I havent seen a single weed pop up during my round up/fallow/round up process.

Then put down maybe 1.5 bales of 3.8Cu ft compressed peat with my helper, it may be a bit light but i was worried about doing too much. Everything is covered though and i dont see any washout from the rain.

Pro technique i learned fro my 4 year old for Peat moss, take two hand fulls stand in the middle of the grass and spin in circles. :lol:

I'll be back in a week or so with any updates on hopefully seed babies.











Secondly we have about 100 sqft on the side of our house that was all pea gravel, presumably for a dog run or something from the previous owners. Problem is the main way out of the shed is off the concrete slab its on, down into this pea gravel, then up and out the gate. Anyone who has tried to push a mower or other equipment through pea gravel knows the struggle, even pulling it is quite the chore. Ive always wanted to get rid of it, for some reason they also installed sprinkler heads on it so its already irrigated. So I gave away about .75 yard of pea gravel to someone on craigslist today, and am now in the process of filling it in with some fill dirt as it was a lot deeper than i expected in some spots. Plan is for 4 or so inches of cheap fill dirt and 2-3 inches or so of higher quality topsoil and or compost on top.

The primary problem is that as far as i know this area gets little to no sun, so this will be my extreme test of Mazama and how well it can do, im not expecting much, and may end up just mulching over the area at some point or planting shade plants we'll see in future years but even if the Mazama grows like crap, my goal is to have a smallish area out of the way i can pull plugs from if necessary.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Awesome! KBG in the PNW.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

g-man said:


> Awesome! KBG in the PNW.


Everyone east of the cascades grows kbg, but they have a climate more like a traditional northern lawn. Those of us on the west though are all rye and fine fescue primarily in lawns, you may see some tttf. Hoping this works so i can convince the wife to redo the other 2k sqft. Every time i walk out and see seed stalks and brown everywhere i cry inside. Mostly because there isn't really anything i can do to prevent it. I know pgr can help but it's so pervasive even if it cut it by 75% it wouldn't matter


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

So, turns out the 100 sqft strip in the side of the house does get sun. Forgot we chopped a big tree down back there for other reasons, but it was the one casting shadows on this area. So my hope of a small area out of the way to test on and pull plugs from might just work. Had someone take all the pea gravel, filled it first with some cleanish fill dirt. Not many rocks just a bunch of hard clods. Probably 2 inches of that, then 4 or so inches of a topsoil mix of sandy loam and aged mulch.

Came out pretty well, still working on making sure it's level and watering it and walking on it to get it settled to determine if i need more before i plant the seed.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

So i have what i assume are Racoons digging holes in portions of my back and right side of my house, presumably for grubs but i dug up a 12x12 inch area and counted 2 grubs, so i am at a bit of a loss.

My plan is to grab some bioadvanced 24 hour grub killer from Lowes tommorrow and put it down, do you think it would be safe to put on the newly planted KBG? I read up and it seems to be, every response though i can find from Bayer says you can "reseed after its watered in and dry", which leads me to believe it shouldnt go down on my new seed. Regardless it will go on the other portions of my lawn and ill keep my fingers crossed that the bugger doesnt go for my renovation area.


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## NoslracNevok (Jun 12, 2018)

Excited to see the mono-Mazama over there. My average high air temp was 90 during germination, emerged at day 6. Interested how long it takes for your babies.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Realized i never really posted the seed i put down so for posterity ill do it here.

I was able to drive an hour or so south and pick it up from Vista directly for $100.
You can tell they are no Barenbrug, who has this giant *** complex with Barenbrug in 10 foot tall letters on the side of the building as you drive down the road. Then i arrived at Vista and their tiny double-wide'ish home trailer looking thing.

I hope they are successful and keep working with Rutgers for new varieties.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

So starting to see some green bits, I am skeptical that they could be KBG at this point only being 3 days in especially considering how tall they are. Although I did see some that looked like seed babies to me that ill try to capture tonight.

Not sure what it could be if its not KBG at this point though with 3 applications of round up over 2 weeks with fallowing + Tenacity at seed down. So we'll see, can peat be contaminated with weeds?

They arent prolific as you can see, but they are in all parts of the seeded area.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I spy a couple that look like baby grass, but at 3 days??
Good question on the peat moss. I've wondered myself, but have always concluded that my bags were not contaminated.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Yea we'll see and ill monitor it tonight and tomorrow and see if more continue to pop out, in the next few days i'd expect it to blow up if those are truly Mazama sprouts already.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

So i am confused, concerned, and confused again. I have a bunch of grass starting to pop up in my yard, but its growing so fast i dont know that its necessarily KBG?

I overseeded some PRG maybe 2 months ago, but i dont know how it could possibly be dormant PRG, ive been watering, its been hot, ive sprayed round up etc i dont think its realistic that PRG seed could possibly stay dormant for 2 months even if its hidden in the canopy could it? Once it gets wet and the soil warms up it should grow and die off right because i was only watering once a week normal summer watering schedule.

That said, i pulled some of these gently out, both the tall ones and a short one just popping out to see what it looked like. And i gotta say it looks like a KBG seed attached to the bottom. The first picture is one of the tall ones i found about an inch tall, the Mazama KBG seed is on the left and some PRG seed i had left over I put on the right to compare size to the husk that is still attached to the seed. One thing I am happy about is this tells me its not any surviving grass thats somehow growing through the round up, because there are seed husks on the plant. It appears to be a KBG seed size maybe slightly larger from being wet and dirty but does not look as big as a PRG seed.





I then pulled two more , a short one and a big one in an attempt to compare a smaller plant that "COULD" be KBG to the seed on the larger plants and they both appear to be identical as you can see below.


You can see all the seed babies popping up.





The last two are another one i pulled, you can see the husk and how tiny it is but how large the plant it was attached to is.




I know in general Mazama can grow quick, quicker than many other KBG varieties but this seems ridiculous? 3-4 days and some plants are 1" tall? But based on the seed size and how prevalent they are starting to be in my yard, every day more popping up i dont see how it could be anything but Mazama.

At what point in the growing process can I tell the difference between PRG and KBG?

I am used to PRG(at least the PRG ive planted) having base red/purple base when its sprouting, which i am also not seeing here.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Get some mazama seeds and keep them moist in a cup with a cotton ball or paper towel. Lets see how long it takes.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

I think i can do one better, since my 2nd tiny 100sqft strip on the side of my house still has no seeds because im a bit low on dirt ill throw the remaining dirt in and seed/fert/spray it tonight in the same fashion as i did this main area.

I'll also throw some in a cup as you say and see how it goes.


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## NoslracNevok (Jun 12, 2018)

I planted my Mazama about midnight Sept 1 and noticed the blades early morning Sept 7. I'd say mine took 5 full days to emerge. (pic below is Bewitched)


The Mazama was much slower to emerge. (below)


3-4 days indeed is odd.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I just checked my notes. Seven days at the earliest for my Mazama. FYI


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

I'm going to say almost for sure it's PRG that was seeded and just now germinating. I'm dealing with the exact same situation in my back yard reno. I can post some pics tomorrow if you like. I seeded PRG in the spring of this year and it came in pretty good. I thought after a summer and two glyphosate apps that there was no chance any PRG or anything would germinate other than the KBG. Two days after seeding I started seeing germination and I knew it couldn't be KBG. I tried hand pulling them but there were quite a few and I didn't want to be walking in the freshly seeded bewitched. Anyways there are now I'd say close to 200 PRG blades that are taller than the now germinated KBG. Thing is in reality 200 grass blades sound like a lot but over 500 sq ft mixed in with however many thousands or millions of germinated KBG seeds is really nothing. I wouldn't worry about it. When the mazama germinates and starts to grow in you'll have forgotten about the PRG. Either that or I'm wrong and you somehow managed to germinate KBG in 3 days but I'm pretty sure that's almost impossible.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> I'm going to say almost for sure it's PRG that was seeded and just now germinating. I'm dealing with the exact same situation in my back yard reno. I can post some pics tomorrow if you like. I seeded PRG in the spring of this year and it came in pretty good. I thought after a summer and two glyphosate apps that there was no chance any PRG or anything would germinate other than the KBG. Two days after seeding I started seeing germination and I knew it couldn't be KBG. I tried hand pulling them but there were quite a few and I didn't want to be walking in the freshly seeded bewitched. Anyways there are now I'd say close to 200 PRG blades that are taller than the now germinated KBG. Thing is in reality 200 grass blades sound like a lot but over 500 sq ft mixed in with however many thousands or millions of germinated KBG seeds is really nothing. I wouldn't worry about it. When the mazama germinates and starts to grow in you'll have forgotten about the PRG. Either that or I'm wrong and you somehow managed to germinate KBG in 3 days but I'm pretty sure that's almost impossible.


Hope not, the seeds say otherwise but we'll see. Im not against pulling 200 PRG plants by hand if i have too. :twisted: 
Once the lawn is at the 1 or so inch mark across the board or during the kbg pout and i can walk on it anything substantially longer thats still growing is just gonna get pulled or hit with glypho on a qtip :nod:

I planted the side area with about .3#(its only 100sqft), and put some in a paper towel in a cup near some bushes that should keep it wet when the sprinklers turn on. We'll see how those fare.


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## Deke (Jun 10, 2019)

Loving the updates btw. I am following your Reno almost step for step. Just about 2 weeks behind you.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

The true seed babies started popping today, on schedule about 6-7 days in.



I figure before my first mow any of the residual PRG that seems to have lived through two nukes should be ridiculously high and ill pull as much of it as i can.

I'm already starting to get a bunch of dead leaves and crap from my tree's nearby falling, when should i bother walking on it to get them? Its far from dense leaves and they are all dry so not matted on the dirt really so i am not that worried. I could use my blower and probably get most of them pushed off from the side, may try that tommorrow afternoon.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> The true seed babies started popping today, on schedule about 6-7 days in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The blower is a good tool. I've used it with success. It's hard to resist not trying to get all the leaves off, but the seedlings should be ok as long as the leaves aren't matted. It's not worth the risk, in my book to walk on them so early.

Congrats on grass babies!


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Day 9 
The yard is starting to take a green hue, i can already see where it's not coming in as well which is actually where the yard drains. No run off but it's the area that gets the most soaked from the sprinklers. Maybe to much water but some is coming in so I'll wait a few weeks before i throw more seed.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Day 12 Progress:

Things are greening up nicely. You can clearly see where the water runs off and is more damp in the bottom right corner of the photo, there is no wash out but its likely getting overwatered because all the water slowly moves that direction within the soil and percolates out onto my driveway even in rainy days.


Even though it looks like nothing is growing there, it seems like either the peat was a bit thicker, the extra water stunted it a bit, i am not sure but there are grass babies popping out all over this area now, it just seems to be 6-7 days behind the rest of the grass in the area.



Also the rear small 100 sqft area is popping out, so i suppose thats day 7 and as expected.



Overall the weather has been very cooperative, we've only had 1 day near 90 since seed down, rained yesterday and is going to be low 80's for another week or so. That said they forecast mid to upper 90's late next week so ill have to make sure my sprinklers are going well.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

It's so exciting when they finally start breaking out in numbers.

I have no desire to do another reno soon, but I sure do miss the Christmas morning feeling!


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

looking good so far, good luck


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Grow, grass babies, grow! It looks like it's coming along nicely and you still have plenty of time. I know we all get anxious, but it's amazing how grass grows, once it gets past 'sprout and pout'.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

When do you guys suggest another hit of fertilizer? After the first mow? I believe i shouldnt push it too hard aka Fall blitz but wonder if another .5N or something of something slow like Alfalfa pellets might be something to throw at it in Fall. I can get like a 50# bag of Alfalfa meal for $13 or something from the local farm ag store, among others like feather/bone meal etc.


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## Sfurunner13 (Feb 26, 2019)

Last year I believe I started putting down 0.25 lbs N around 28 days after germination. I did this almost weekly until average first frost date. My turf seemed to like it. I tried to time it when it rained. Only problem is spreading that low amount sometimes makes it alittle uneven.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Sfurunner13 said:


> Last year I believe I started putting down 0.25 lbs N around 28 days after germination. I did this almost weekly until average first frost date. My turf seemed to like it. I tried to time it when it rained. Only problem is spreading that low amount sometimes makes it alittle uneven.


Yea, i have some FAS i could use to make spreading it out evenly easier, not sure if foliar FAS apps on new seedlings is better or worse than granules?


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

social port said:


> I just checked my notes. Seven days at the earliest for my Mazama. FYI


I had germination at 7 days as well. Oddly, did some additional test pots and had germination at 5 days.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

zeus201 said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> > I just checked my notes. Seven days at the earliest for my Mazama. FYI
> ...


Yeah, I don't know why variations like that happen. Water? Degree of seed to soil contact? Amount of sunlight exposure? JDgreen can get TTTF up and running in no time at all. My TTTF comes up very well, but it takes a very long time and even longer to grow vigorously.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

social port said:


> Yeah, I don't know why variations like that happen. Water? Degree of seed to soil contact? Amount of sunlight exposure? JDgreen can get TTTF up and running in no time at all. My TTTF comes up very well, but it takes a very long time and even longer to grow vigorously.


Yeah, JDgreen mowed already which blew me away! I re-seeded reno area yesterday with seed I primed for 4 days. Fingers crossed I will see germination in coming days.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

I wasnt too happy with how poorly I had graded the small 100 sqft section, so i pulled a 2x4 across it to level it out better. Felt bad stomping on the new baby seeds and digging/covering them up but i'd rather do it now than have a bumpy area that gets scalped a lot. Threw down some more seed and peat on top of it to help fill in any area's i may have just killed.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Day 18 still coming in but growth is slow, how long will this pouting last? Also need to get out the blower again. You can see i wasn't as heavy with the seed around the edges apparently but there's quite a few plants so I'm not going to add any more unless necessary.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Looks like you have good coverage. Should start to come out of spout and pout within a week or so. I'd start spoon feeding with N around the 21-25 day mark.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Looks like you have good coverage. Should start to come out of spout and pout within a week or so. I'd start spoon feeding with N around the 21-25 day mark.


A few questions about this.

Can i do foliar sprays this young? 
Can or should i include iron and or humic in the spray as well?


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like you have good coverage. Should start to come out of spout and pout within a week or so. I'd start spoon feeding with N around the 21-25 day mark.
> ...


I've never done foliar spray on grass that young. I used granular urea when I reno'd my front lawn and just spread AMS on my 500 sq ft back lawn reno in progress. I used about .60 lb AMS for the area. That equals about .25 lb N/1000. On smaller areas like what we are working with it's a small amount of fertilizer to spread. Use a hand held spreader if you have one.

At this early stage of your seedlings I would be worried about burning by going foliar. As the grass matures more you would be able to spray your N and mix in iron if you choose to.

I don't see any reason you couldn't use humic now if you so wanted.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Day 22 or so and looking good. The rear plug plot is coming in nicely. Was hoping for more top growth the week we were gone on the front are but honestly not much changed over the last 7 days so i can see why it drives people crazy. On the other hand there are grass that's 3 inches tall I've just been walking around pulling i assume is that rye seed that survived. It's easy to spot at this point and should always be easy since it will always grow faster. As you can see grass will grow anywhere. Even in like 1mm of peat that misted onto the side when spreading it that you can see in the concrete that got some seed in it.

Plan to drop .25n urea tomorrow across the entire yard including renovation areas.

I've been watering at 10, 12, 2,4 and 6 for a minute or two each but think i may cut it back a bit now that I'm 3 weeks deep everything should be germinated at this point. Probably go to 10, 2 and maybe 4pm on any remaining hotter days? When should i cut back entirely to normal 1 inch per week?

Side note the other two sections on my plug area sprinkler zone are way more healthy than my other strip areas because of the the extra water it's getting. Guess they all need more water.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Also i can see a ton of weeds coming up in the plug patch, presumably from the topsoil/compost i got and added in. Its all very tiny barely above the soil but its prevalent. Never sprayed this area with Tenacity due to time, but will in a few weeks once i start mowing the area. Then i'll drop prodiamine down across everything here hopefully in October as temps start declining.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Can i do foliar sprays this young?


Yup, foliar uptake is much faster and pretty much immediate for use as opposed to granular. Light apps once a week, water in afterwards. I sprayed AS at 0.10lb/k last Friday without any issues on my Mazama mono.



FuzzeWuzze said:


> Can or should i include iron and or humic in the spray as well?


You could. I did a test patch with iron as well and it was noticeably darker. However, I'm personally skipping out on iron until Halloween to help with aesthetic


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You should start to be less frequent and longer irrigation duration. But not to once a week yet. Start with twice a day, then once, then every other day, etc. Remember that it is young and cannot take drought stress too much.


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## NoslracNevok (Jun 12, 2018)

Crazy seeing growth on the concrete peat moss!


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Acquired a Fiskars reel mower off craigslist so ill be snipping it down sometime this weekend. I'd like to keep this low, the lowest the fiskars goes is 1" without modifications. Is that too low to mow new grass?

I figured i'd start at 1" with the Fiskars and see how i like it, from the looks of it the front wheels are whats adjusted to change the HOC on it. I also donnt see any reason you couldnt replace those wheels with smaller wheels to get it sub 1".


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## NoslracNevok (Jun 12, 2018)

My Mazama first cut was 5/8" on day 39. Did just fine.


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

looking good


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## ChicagoLawn (Apr 7, 2019)

Great progress


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I mowed my temp at 1in with the greensmower. Make sure the reel is cutting the grass and not tearing it.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Looked like it cut pretty well at 1 inch, i caused some damaged in the soggy area initially with tire marks so i stayed off it. 
I'll likely be cutting back to 1 watering if that per day as we seem to be entering fall here.

These leaves will be the death of me, because of our house's position at the top of the hill a lot of neighboring tree's blow their leaves and they get stuck on the backside of the hill which is this yard area. Its a struggle every year to keep up. Especially when we get continuous rains in the fall and everything gets wet and doesnt blow around very well.



I'll be putting down another .25n urea this Sunday. Cant wait to see it start to spread and darken up, as you can see its currently several shades lighter than my PRG hell strip. Thats in the queue for spring if this goes well over winter.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Day 30 update
Cut it for the 2nd time yesterday @ 1 inch
Dropped .25N Urea again and will continue each weekend.

Its gotten noticeably colder and wetter this week, we'll still be getting like quarter inch of rain each day and be cloudy and 60-70's for the next week at least it looks like with one warmer 85 day crammed in there.

I threw a handful of seed down along the front sidewalk area since it was very sparse, in hopes that the week of cooler and wet weather would give me some free seedlings without needing to continue watering the whole yard.


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## Thenenk (Sep 14, 2018)

How you liking this rain? We may get away with leaving the irrigation off at this point. Reno is looking good man!


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Its been great, thankfully we continue to have 1 off days like this Thursday that i can let it dry out and walk on to mow again.
Although we are quickly approaching the time of year in October where the ground and grass will be continuously wet until May and the mower goes inside.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Day 36, continue to mow it 1-2x a week @ 1 inch as the weather allows. Continue to put down .25N urea each weekend as well.

Sprayed it with FS, and Humic/Fulvic/Kelp blend from Kelp4Less(not extreme blend) 2 days ago as well.

This is the first shot i feel that it looks more like a full lawn from 20 feet away. Its not until you walk up on it you see how thin it is, that said it is thickening up nicely and the iron has darkened it up quite a bit. Also sprinklers are all but off for the rest of the year here it seems like we are moving into our wet season a bit early, its been like this the last few weeks with cloudy 60-65 days and then a few warmer sunny 70's. The ground is already getting quite wet. Next dry day i feel i can walk on it i will be applying some Propiconazole , i meant to do it with the humic but forgot.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Looks like it's coming along nicely.


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## NoslracNevok (Jun 12, 2018)

Looking nice!

"i meant to do it with the humic but forgot." Funny how things are forgotten like that. I seeded yesterday, forgot to lightly rake in seed before peat moss. Whoops.


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## Thenenk (Sep 14, 2018)

Still plenty of good days ahead, and we're basically out of the watering at this point. It's been dumping rain today.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Quick day 44 update.

Not much change from a visual perspective that i can tell, its obviously thickening up when you get closer to it but it still has quite some ways to go to be a thick carpet.

On a day to day basis it doesnt look like much is changing but when i compare shots from even a week ago you can see spots that were dirt are now filling in.

Just kind of letting it go wild at this point, and come Spring i'll edge it all out, get some bark down under the bushes and clean up the overall look of the yard. Its a moot point at this time of year to 'crisp' things up when its grey, overcast and soaking wet 24 hours a day.

One thing of note is that there are quite a few weeds coming in, i've been pulling them when i am out mowing but they keep coming. I think its been long enough and i can do another blanket spray of Tenacity. For people with new KBG lawns should i just do a 2oz/Acre rate or 4oz/Acre rate?

Then maybe next week, weather permitting i can get my Prodiamine out? Maybe a bit late but we dont get that cold so weeds pretty much can pop up any time.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

It looks consistent. How often do you mow? I started at day 17 and since I mow every 2-3 days. This defiantly helped the spreading. You have much more time than us in Canada, so I think it will look awesome before any frost.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Ive been trying to mow every few days, but its been pouring rain so i've been trying to not walk on it that much because the ground gets very mushy in spots after 3 days of straight rain. This week should be better.


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## Thenenk (Sep 14, 2018)

What have you been feeding the baby grass with?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Mostly straight 46-0-0 Urea granular, its a bit hard being such a small area it barely takes any so its hard to spread properly. I figure though since im doing it weekly every spot should get some eventually.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Day 53 another update.

Getting real cold here as of late we've had several days that didnt break 50-55F so the grass has really started to slow down growth. I have a few area's that are still thin, but have a lot of grass stalks at the same time, so my hope is come spring they will start filling in. Edges are still a bit bare as well, mostly under where our hydrangea's had grown up so large and flopping over into the yard, its very evident now that they are cut back. Ill need to do a better job setting a realistic edge on this back area and keeping the hydrangea's in check.

I sprayed Tenacity on both reno area's to hopefully get the broadleaf away, a nd also hit it with Prodiamine to hopefully keep it safe for our warm(ish) winters where weeds can really keep going.

I think i may hit it with one more dose of Fert this weekend then call it good for the year. Overall i'd say the reno was a success thus far, only changes i'd make for next years reno area's is to be a bit more diligent about hitting edges with seed. Also debating doing 4#/K instead of 3# per K, but overall i think it came in well and even the thin spots have lots of grass but just need time to thicken up and wont have the temps to do so this year.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Sprayed FAS + Humic/Kelp across the entire yard, cant wait to see how it pops in the new reno area in a few days. Let it sit for 3-4 hours then ran the sprinklers.

I noticed some darker spots this week in the new renovation, and i can only assume they are dots that are getting direct Urea hits, and the rest of it is not. So ill be doing some light foliar apps of Urea or FAS weekly until the rains return.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

I think the FAS + Humic/Kelp mix i did this last weekend is starting to hit now and the lawn is looking good.
I did notice some white tips as it seems the Tenacity from the weekend prior is finally starting to do its thing.
A lot of yards around here thin out a lot during winter, and a few years ago my PRG stand all but was decimated, presumably from disease and the ground being so wet for so long. My fingers are crossed that this does not happen to this new KBG.

Unsure if i should spray Prop in the next month or so as a preventative measure, i have a big jug of it.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

So after coming back from a vacation and there being leaves piled up on the yard i'm starting to see a bit of yellowing that i'd like to understand and get under control if its disease(it probably is). We've been pretty cold in the 50's and low 40's at night but no real hard frost yet.

I am wondering if its lack of rain? Doubt its drought stress its all still wet but we havent had rain in a week or two.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. I put down Azoxy granules @ curative rate almost 2 weeks ago? 1 bag is my yard at curative rate, and i didnt feel like storing half a bag all winter and doing preventative rate so just threw it all down. I have yet to spray Prop, but we're going to have a lot of rain coming up starting tonight so i am unsure when i will be able to actually get it down. If the forecast is accurate, likely not until Wed/Thursday of next week.

I can tell that i have some tearing due to my blade that i need to fix, ive done a few cuts with my rotary and not the Fiskars because of all the leaves that need to get mulched up and seems to have done a bit of damage, which may be the entry point for the disease? I'm hoping @g-man or any of you other disease experts can help.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Do you have a large view of the area? Is it all with this yellow look?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Let me take a shot this evening and we'll see, i cant remember.

I feel like it all does otherwise i likely wouldn't have noticed it at all in the first place. 
I did just hit it with FAS last weekend and it looked great, but could it be iron or just the cold/damp weather causing it?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Azoxy lasts around 14days in curative. I would not do propi by itself on leaf spot look like fungus.

Last N was 2 weeks ago? Do you have a soil test?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

I do not have a soil test i just saw this today but may try to get one. Yes last real N was 2 weeks ago, i suppose FAS does not count in the amounts it put out?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It can count if you use 0.25lb N/ksqft


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Run your rotary to 'vacuum' at higher HOC and run the Fiskars to cut. I have to do this now that leaf mass off trees is massive. I pass at 2'' the Honda and bag, and follow at 1'' with my Jacobsen. It also helps pull up the blades for cleaner cut. Pull some 'yellow plants' and look for root damage. Reno looks good!


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

g-man said:


> It can count if you use 0.25lb N/ksqft


It does appear to be pretty much across the entire thing, probably more noticable actually on the more bare spots? Really hoping this doesnt fry my reno  My ground does feel pretty hard, not gonna lie with the lack of rain the last few weeks. We're going to get several inches over the next 5-7 days.

I put down 1.7oz AS and 2k FS per 1k as per the original thread. Not sure if that equals .25N, ive never done the calc.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

g-man said:


> It can count if you use 0.25lb N/ksqft


@g-man Any idea's or do you think its too inconclusive and needs a soil test?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Sorry, Im on vacation. I read posts, but dont have time to reply right away and then I forget.

I would give is 0.25lb of N/ksqft and water it in. The 1.7oz doesn count for much.

I'm not seeing LS, but keep an eye on it.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

g-man said:


> Sorry, Im on vacation. I read posts, but dont have time to reply right away and then I forget.
> 
> I would give is 0.25lb of N/ksqft and water it in. The 1.7oz doesn count for much.
> 
> I'm not seeing LS, but keep an eye on it.


I do appreciate the help thanks!

Trying to figure out how to go about the best way to get this .25N, Urea prills i feel is just too potent for such a small area(600ish sqft), i only end up using like .3 of a # and its obviously very sparse and hard to get proper coverage. Even with the spreader set as low as i can and still have it shoot out, its gone within 1 pass across the yard. Its not going to really stop raining or i'd do a foliar or will i get the same effect if i spray foliar Urea or AS in a break in the rain even if its only for an hour or two and then washes into the soil?

I also have some 10-3-5 10% Iron fert left i believe and CarbonX.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Hey @FuzzeWuzze what spreader do you have? At @g-man 's recommendation I use a Scotts Wizz spreader instead of my Lesco to spread Urea and it works well. I keep it dialed low, around a 4 and walk a grid. It spreads it very evenly and not as far to the sides.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

When you spread the urea and water it in, it dissolves and spread in the soil. Don't worry too much about it. If you have AS, then you will be able to spread more product per area.

You can dissolve the urea /ams in water and spray it. Then immediately irrigate the area to remove it from the leaves. You can spray it during a rain too.

I use the Scott wizz since it makes it very easy to spread small quantities.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Sometimes I use the Scotts wizz on setting 4, sometimes I shake my hands sideways with a handful of urea and spread that way, as I'm working with a similar small area. You get used to eyeballing the correct amount. 0.25lb/M of high strength fert like urea is definately a small amount to spread. Regular/weekly apps makes sure every spot gets coverage.

Since realising that my weather systems are very similar to yours in Oregon, I've read your journal with much interest. Congratz from me on what you have managed to achieve thus far! :thumbup:

I hope your grass yellowing issues resolve! Did you decide it was down to the iron app or the azoxy or something else? I'm sure I've read somewhere about not using iron sulphate on grass until its 6 months old but I cannot remember where. I plan on doing a small test patch this week on my month old kbg.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

I was able to get .3# ish N of Urea down today in a break in the rain. Forgot i had a hand spreader from my last house just sitting in a box of old yard things in my garage so used that and it went pretty well, spread some by hand down the edges. Hoping it helps.

One thing i've noticed though is that my KBG seems to have stopped growing, my PRG area's not so much. I went across the KBG today at just above 1" since i've seen a bit of scalping on the lowest Fiskars setting and i dont want to do that with how slow its growing. I hardly noticed anything getting cut and its been probably close to 2 weeks since my last cut.

I think its time to put the mower away for these sections possibly except for leaf duty, and this may be my last NItrogen input for the year unless i hear otherwise. We're barely breaking 60F now adays its usually in the mid to low 50's as a high.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Well i spoke too soon, we're back into the low 60s and near freezing at night with all sun. How does one water during these periods? We won't be getting rain for another week, but it's not really warm enough for the ground to dry up.

Overall the grass seems to be bouncing back from the nitrogen i gave it last week, so i made sure to give it more this week.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

I'm loving that color! The Mazama looks pretty thick, for a young reno. For watering, I would check the soil moisture with a screwdriver test, or cut out a small piece of turf. You just might be ok to wait for rain next week. There are cheap moisture meters available. I picked one up from Amazon awhile back. John Perry (Lawncology) has a good YouTube video worth checking out.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Yea its looking good, honestly i think i went with the max of 4# per 1k, went with 3 and there are some bare spots especially around the edges. Regardless im sure it will fill in quickly in the spring, i'll probably hit the edges and some of the bare spots with a bit of seed and let the rest fill in.


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## Thenenk (Sep 14, 2018)

Hey Fuzze hows that grass lookin?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Thenenk said:


> Hey Fuzze hows that grass lookin?


Its looking good so far, filled in quite a bit actually over winter because we dont get that cold.

I have a ton of what i assume is annual rye, but im not sure what it is i posted in another thread a month ago or so and many thought it was. I've sprayed some Tenacity for good measure, and will resume pulling it once it lights up. It lays very flat, and splayed out almost like a spider and grows way faster than the Mazama, so its easy to see, but Mazama is a dwarf variety so im not expecting it to get huge fast anyways and it does make finding weed grasses way easier as they stick out(atleast to me) like a sore thumb.

Killing my other 2k sqft of grass now to plant the rest of my Mazama, although i may be blending the Mazama 80/20 with some Champions GQ Rye blend in the back yard. I cant keep the dog or kids off of it, so straight KBG isnt an option as it will take too long.


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## Burkesw (Jul 19, 2019)

The Mazama looks great! I'm a couple hours south of you, and I really wanted to do a full *** lawn but went with the seed superstore Shady mix after being told by a couple different seed stores in Oregon that a full *** lawn would not work... Did my full reno last fall but you have me thinking.

I may have to give Vista seed a call and do a test on a 400 SF section I have. :lol:

Has it been taking off more in the last 2 weeks? The little bit of Mazama I have in mine has been.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

So small update, i may have over applied Tenacity slightly in an experiment to kill of a bunch of Annual rye, theres a definate white haze to the grass at this point but there is still a lot of green pushing its way through so im confident with spoon feedings it will be like new in a few weeks with the warm 70-80F weather we are having. A lot of the white is actually the rye, i'm not sure if my seed was contaminated or what but it took off in Winter and become a giant eye sore in early spring as it was 1-2" taller, stalky and lighter green than the more compact mazama and looked very bad a day or two after mowing because it grew so fast.

I will say im very impressed with how dense the turf is already going into its first Spring, cut at 1" with my Fiskars i cant really pull it back to see the dirt in many areas.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Colors coming back, the picture doesnt really do justice for how dark it is and continues to get darker by the day as it recovers from the tenacity. Good news though is that the suspected annual rye did indeed get fried by the excessive Tenacity and the KBG is bouncing back.

I got my share of Podium from @CarolinaCuttin that ill be putting down in the coming week or so as we warm up yet again. We went from 60's to mid 80's last week to low 60's and rain this week. Looks like we're supposed to get back to our low 70's and scattered clouds next week maybe.

This constant drizzles of .1-.25 inches of rain a day and clouds has really helped my other 1500sqft of Mazama mono i did a month ago take off. Its been popping out for several weeks now stuck in the pout, looking forward to June as things start to be more reliably warm so that it can take off.

Question, once its sprouted and stuck in the pout stage, I assume i can back off watering and resume a more normal 1" per week? Or should i continue to keep it moist throughout the pout phase?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Avoid letting it get too dry. The root system is not that developed. It is a balancing act of not too much and not too little.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

What rate of tenacity did you put down?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

6oz/Acre rate approx 2 weeks apart.

The thought was enough to fry Rye(5oz/Acre rate) but not damage the KBG(8oz/Acre rate), in theory i probably didnt need the second app but was not seeing much results, i should have given it another week before applying my 2nd dose. And you can clearly see my application was not as even as it should have been.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Thanks, I recently went with a 5oz/A rate and was curious how much further you had pushed it. I decided to move forward with my reno since then and won't be doing a second application, but this is great to know for the future! Thanks again!


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

g-man said:


> Avoid letting it get too dry. The root system is not that developed. It is a balancing act of not too much and not too little.


I assume once i get to like the 2nd cut is when i can start cutting back watering?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

So yard is looking great, growing strong and dark. Its seriously dark, even more so in person than picture, and this is without any FAS. Third pic is my best effort to pull it apart with my fingers to see dirt, but cant its meshed together very well over Winter and spring so far here and has fully recovered from my Tenacity attack. Its currently being cut on the 2nd lowest setting on my rotary which is probably about an inch and a half max and seems to be cutting well.

There's some dead material down in there from the Tenacity, but im not sure if i should dethatch now or wait until fall.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Hit the yard with FAS, Humic/Fulvic, and .6oz rate of Podium on my Mazama reno yesterday looking forward to see how it takes the Podium.

I know theres tips/threads to track how long until i need to apply again based on my weather, can anyone point me in the right direction?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Not going to lie, the yard is looking not great right now and im a bit stumped why.

As i posted in another thread i have some dead spots i believe were from a fungus, ive done two apps of DiseaseEx and one of Prop over the last month at the curative rates.

I'm unsure if im over fertilizing, under watering, or what but it looks fried and has a bunch of dead material/thatch now that is quite visible with it cut so low. Im not sure what to do next, dethatch to pull that out or is that a bad idea as we go into warmer weather? Let it grow a bit taller to hide? Right now im cutting at my mowers 2nd lowest setting which is about 1.5".

We havent really had hot weather until this week, so i doubt its been under watered, we had rain or overcast almost every day the last few weeks. I dont believe its seed heads, i havent seen a single one this year since this is its first spring/summer im not really expecting many.

This all started happening after spraying Podium, probably just a coincidence, but now im scared to spray it again.

I plan on aerating this Fall as this area needs it for sure, but the lawn honestly looked better in winter than it does right now which is a bit confusing. I'm growing about 60 pots of plugs inside under my grow light setup since its not needed for garden seedlings/annual flowers anymore that hopefully in a month or two i can start putting throughout the yard to spread as we come into Fall.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I agree, something is not right. How much Podium/ksqft? when? how much fert in the last month? How many inches of water? ET?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

I applied at the .6 floz/1k rate, that was back at the start of June.
I feel i've definately been overdoing it with Fert, trying to push some growth and may have pushed it a bit too hard. I believe ive put down around 1.5# over the last 4-6 weeks. Because we've had great mid 60's weather and lots of rain i wanted to thicken it up.

According to my google sheets DarkSky thing i think i setup following your instructions we had 2.6 inches of rain since June 1st. Which ive been supplementing with irrigation with my Rachio as normal to get 1" although maybe its rain skips have been keeping it too dry? I havent been tracking how much water the sprinklers are putting down in the sheet.

According to the sheet my ET for that same 25 days is 3.4

As you can see theres lots of healthy grass clumps growing in there, so it makes me think its not disease at this point especially with all the fungicide going down but im a bit stumped.

My sprinker for that zone wasnt scheduled to run until Friday morning, but i bumped it up and ran it Thursday morning, and will likely run it again maybe Sunday and see if it bounces back with extra water. But again im not sure thats the issue because the bad areas dont look dormant, they look shriveled and fried.

Ive been cutting it about every 3-4 days when able when the ground wasnt soaking wet from rain.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Not going to lie, the yard is looking not great right now and im a bit stumped why.
> 
> As i posted in another thread i have some dead spots i believe were from a fungus, ive done two apps of DiseaseEx and one of Prop over the last month at the curative rates.
> 
> ...


This makes me feel a bit better as I have I had the observations with my Mazama mono. It came outta of dormancy awesome and looked amazing into mi-May. Since then it has been a different story. I've adjusted my irrigation schedule to water a bit sooner and tried to be proactive with preventive fungicides. Even then, still had browning and die off.

Did yours go into crazy seedhead production / mode? I swear every single blade of grass had a seed head stalk which I attribute to lack of color at the moment as well.

I'm also debating doing a verticutt to help remove the "crap". Regardless, I'm going to let mine rebound from PGR and see what happens. I'll continue feeding it with some soybean through the summer months and will transition to Fall N blitz once the time comes. Hopefully by then this will be lull for both us and it will start looking really good again.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

0.6oz/k is high. This was the first one? I do 0.33oz/M.

I'm not concerned with the nitrogen. Are the settings of the rachio correct(in/hr?, Root depth)

How are the clippings? Good qty?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Ok good to know, i mean how is it high though when thats the rate on the bottle for residential lawns? And yes it was the first app of the season. I'd assume .6oz/M is fine if for straight KBG if they list .75oz/M for banding on golf courses as being safe.

I believe my rachio is correct, but today i actually went out and found two of my heads were plugged, but that doesnt really explain anything since its all across the yard not just where those sprinklers are.

I have HE-VAN's and tested tonight again and got about 1/2" in 15 minutes which puts me right in range of the HE-VAN-15 spec sheet that says 1.83 per hour. Because im on a slight slope i have all of my area's set for 5 min spray 10 min soak otherwise a giant river runs down my sidewalk after 5 minutes.

I typically mulch, but honestly no i wouldnt say its growing very fast at all and it never really has, i just chalked that up to it being a compact american variety. When i cut it tommorrow ill bag it and see, that will have been 2 days of growth in low 80's weather so you'd expect a decent amount with how much fert i've put down.

Its funny because from the street/sidewalk to your average person it still looks great and i got a compliment on it today, but to me when i walk out on it all I see is brown and dead grass. I can still shove a screwdriver to the hilt without much pressure, and after a watering it goes in even easier.

I want it thick again,but not sure if i'm screwed now for the rest of the summer not pushing it with any more nitrogen or what i can do to help it spread. Another smaller .3oz rate of Podium? I have access to Alfalfa meal/Bone meal and other such farm organics from a local farm coop at a good price for summer use? https://marionag.com/products/pro-pell-it-organic-fertilizer/

I have FAS/Urea/16-16-16/K4Less Humic/Fulvic blend, CarbonX, Prop14.3 and Azoxy available if you have any tips on what i should do the next month. We're supposed to be in the mid-upper 70's for the next 10 days without any rain.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

.6 oz/M of trinexapac-ethyl in early June is a high rate for first app of the year.

When did you apply propiconazole, and at what rate? Did you water it in? Or let it sit on the leaf blade?

Propiconazole has growth regulating effects as well. It was talked about a bit here. High first app rate combined with PPZ use can make the turf look unsightly.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=286304#p286304


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Pete1313 said:


> .6 oz/M of trinexapac-ethyl in early June is a high rate for first app of the year.
> 
> When did you apply propiconazole, and at what rate? Did you water it in? Or let it sit on the leaf blade?
> 
> ...


2oz rate, approx 2 weeks after the PGR? I wonder if the phytotoxic effect mentioned in that thread is what fried the grass? We had some upper 80/low 90's days about 10 days after application I wasnt sure if i should do foliar or drench for Prop so it sat for about 2 hours then i watered it in.

I realize most of this brown stuff should decompose over time, im wondering since its just such a small area if i should go out with a rake and get as much of it out as i can rather than run the sunjoe detatcher over it. Or i could just do nothing and wait i suppose.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think the combo of PGR + Propi is causing phototoxicity.

I think the best course of action is to try to do nothing. One of the hardest thing in lawn care is to wait. If you want give it a spoon feeding, but don't do more PGR or propi. Let the lawn go into rebound. Once it is growing good, then do the raking, but it might not need it.

I don't know who wrote the tnex label, but I think some of those rates are too high. I use around 0.33oz, but my first app is at 0.15oz to get the grass used to it. I think pete1313 does the same. For the next time (August?), start at a lower rate.

You don't need to bag the clippings, just look at them when mowing. Are they 2in long and creating a mess? Then it is growing too fast. Are you barely cutting anything and the sidewalk stays clean? Growth is too slow.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

g-man said:


> I think the combo of PGR + Propi is causing phototoxicity.
> 
> I think the best course of action is to try to do nothing. One of the hardest thing in lawn care is to wait. If you want give it a spoon feeding, but don't do more PGR or propi. Let the lawn go into rebound. Once it is growing good, then do the raking, but it might not need it.
> 
> ...


OK ya doing nothing is hard sometimes, instead of spoon feeding would something like alfalfa meal pellets help jump start microbes to break down the dead grass faster?


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> OK ya doing nothing is hard sometimes, instead of spoon feeding would something like alfalfa meal pellets help jump start microbes to break down the dead grass faster?


I like alfalfa pellets, but they can have quite a kick and maybe push too much growth. If you can grind some up to make a light coat (i.e. alfalfa meal), or soak some in a closed container of water for 2-3 days (agitating each day)to make alfalfa tea, that might be better. Also, molasses would be a good option to feed the microbes. It helps with thatch breakdown.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Chris LI said:


> FuzzeWuzze said:
> 
> 
> > OK ya doing nothing is hard sometimes, instead of spoon feeding would something like alfalfa meal pellets help jump start microbes to break down the dead grass faster?
> ...


Thanks i'm just not going to do anything for 2 weeks except mow every other 2-3 days as i can.

I should just leave my HOC the same? Not raise it at all? I'm not super aggressive cutting its at like 1.5-2" so i dont think i need to adjust that.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

I would keep it the same and monitor clippings to adjust mowing frequency, instead of adjusting HOC, until the weather and turf tell you what to do.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

Thanks again for the Mazama! I'll be following your reno. I'll post mine soon.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

So even a week or so has made all the difference. It's still not 100 percent and there is a cat or dog pissing now killing small spots I gotta deal with. Maybe get one of those I spray my lawn signs to have people keep their dogs off. Although I'm going to guess it's a cat based on how they all seem in the same area and I know they are creatures of habit. Anyone ever used one of those ultrasonic noise things to keep animals like cats away? Amazon has really mixed reviews if they work


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## DiabeticKripple (Apr 14, 2019)

Live trap it and take it to the pound.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Looking good. My mazama has held up well so far this summer. We have a couple outdoor cats who also made a couple burn spots in mine. Took about a week or two but they are cleared up now.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Cut today at the lowest setting my rotary goes which is about 1 inch and i think it looks good. I usually cut on the 2nd setting which is about an inch and a quarter. A bit more of the brown stuff peeking through at this low cut and its showing me one high spot ill want to focus on when leveling in the Fall but overall i'm pretty happy with it but will likely stick with the 2nd setting going forward. Unfortunately a powered reel mower doesnt work very well for how my yard is laid out, so i have my fiskars but cant stand the chatter marks in the turf and my rotary does a surprisingly good cut @ 1.25".

We have a bunch of tree's in the hell strips, and those tree's bulge at the base a bit and push the dirt up. If it was me i'd cut the whole lot down but its a HOA and I doubt they would let me without a massive fight and its not worth it.

We're in a weird weather pattern now of mid 70's overcast for the next 10 days, which has been great for my other spring Mazama plantings that are coming in well as you can see in the background of the first photo. There are still a few spots though that refuse to come in no matter what. My initial thought is they were too wet and i've since transitioned these remaining zones off HE-VAN sprinklers to match Hunter MP Rotators everywhere else which im hoping will help but only time will tell if some of these area's will grow KBG, they are quite shaded.

This mazama is many manitudes of darker green than anyone elses in the area.
While cleaning the shed found a bit of Southern Ag Chelated Iron left from last year so may spray that down Friday to get a pop of color for the 4th weekend.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Looks good! Even a Swardman won't work for you? That will be slick!


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Maybe? But a battle with the wife for a $2500+ mower is not one i'm interested in taking on right now for a yard thats only 2500 sqft 

Honestly before i went full reel i'd want to redo a large portion of the front yard, i kind of wish i did it with this last renovation but i never seem to have the time. Maybe ill do it in a year or two once this KBG roots.

I'd like to sod cut everything, relevel all my sprinklers, lower the grade to the curb(in some spots near the tree's its an inch or two above the sidewalk) and get things more level which isnt really possible right now. Then i'd put the sod back down and let it re-root.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Things are definately coming up milhouse finally. Glad i listened and havent applied anything except some extra Chelated iron i have, it seems to have helped a bit but not sure if my water is great for iron or if i need to adjust PH in the future. From what i've read you want it to be quite low, and i last time i checked with the water supervisor our cities water is required to be between 7.0 and 7.2 leaving the plant(I brew beer so i have other reasons to care about whats in our water) but other than that its quite soft without much in it.



A shot of the previously damaged area is filling in nicely. Another few weeks and it should be totally filled in.



What it looked like about 2 weeks ago. Different angle but i think you get the idea.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm glad it is working out.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Added some hydratain to this renovation area need to do my other areas.

Just thought I'd add another update on the big hole that's been filling in its made big strides this last few days with the warmer 80s Temps. At this rate the entire 1 by 1 ft area will be filled in next week, about a month since it's worst. This being my first kbg lawn, it makes me very happy. This is the same spot as the two pics above.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

:thumbup:


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

So picked up some pelletized Alfalfa meal(2.5-0-2.5) and my local farm coop has a prilling plant and sells this so i picked up a bag.

Description: Pro-Pell-It! 8-0-4 is a mini, granular, turf blend formulated to acheive an optimal distribution while spreading and to provide sustained feeding throughout the season. Derived from feather meal, sulfate of potash magnesia, iron sucrate, and olivine this blend is recommended for turf applications at 5-15 lbs. per 1000 square feet up to 4 times per year. The feather meal provides a slow release source of nitrogen for steady feeding while the olivine and iron sucrate provide nutrients needed for a deep, green color.
Analysis: 8-0-4 w/ 2.5% Mg, 4.25% S, 2.5% Fe

Not sure when ill put it down with the heat wave coming through and the yard is looking good. Its not cheap at like $25/40# bag but its cheaper than say Milo which is $18/bag here now.

Last question hopefully one of the chemists of TLF can chime in on, i did some basic google searching on Olivine but could not find much except one Japanese golf turf study that mixed it with sand and said it was amazing. Curious if anyone else has information about it i've never heard of it previous but apparently its in this fertilizer.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

I like alfalfa meal. I use a alfalfa/kelp meal fert and I always see a good response from the turf when I use it. You can drop it even when it's hot out. Not really much risk of burning.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

FuzzeWuzze said:


>


Hey @FuzzeWuzze How is the side strip doing these days?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Not gonna lie, it looks horrible. Being on the side of my house i dont go back there much during winter and there were a bunch of maple leaves that were matted on it and killed big portions of it and it got quite diseased. I reseeded it since its so tiny and it takes like a handful of seed back in May and its coming in alright.

Its still not quite on my radar to keep an eye on when im doing yard work since its away from all our other turf.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

I hear you, same thing me happened to me last year too, on a small shaded grass path. I have an often similar weather system to you. Wet matted autumn leaves are quite deadly to turf, left untouched. I can't decide whether to up my garden blower/vac game or whether to simply put some chippings down lol.
Your front Mazama is very very nice though... :thumbup:


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Thanks, its hilarious because it looks so much better than the other sections of my lawn i planted Mazama in this spring. Spring seeding PRG here is easy, KBG not so much it seems it just takes too long and a lot of my area's im planting were/are in moderate shade and i remembered how much i hate rainbird 15SST sidestrip nozzles i have to use in all my hellstrips, every single head out of a brand new bag shoots differently. One random in the middle of the line shoots like 2 feet further on either side than the other heads above and below it, it makes zero sense. The new Mazama Its growing in but i suspect ill need to overseed again in Fall to thicken it up. Its only ~1k sqft total so the 4# or so i put down isnt breaking the bank with only like 75% germination. I have since just coughed up the $150 bucks to replace all the heads with Hunter MP Rotator strip nozzles and have had much better success, although there are a few sprinklers that need to get dug up and moved in the fall. For example there's a 30 foot section on the street side they put 2 heads about 10ft apart, on the sidewalk side they put 1 head in the middle of the length, which cant reach from end to end because even if the spray head says its a 30 ft throw they never actually make it that far.

My neighbor's have made comments about how rough it is to grow grass. I just nod my head knowing that by this time next year it will look amazing. Cant be a race with KBG obviously.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

So the yards been looking good the last few weeks, so im hoping to put down FAS and .15oz rate of Podium to see how it takes it this time.

The hole is all but filled in at this point, maybe a quarter sized hole if your looking straight down at it otherwise unnoticable.

The other 1k sqft of Mazama i planted in May is doing pretty poorly and growing quite slowly still. Some area's are growing ok, others not so much, i think the soil in some of these strips is just too compacted.

I was planning on aerating and reseeding these hellstrip area's at the end of August to help it fill in since i still have plenty of seed left..

I have about 40 of these tiny pots ive been growing under my garden grow lights, its nice because it grows so quickly and doesnt need constant watering like it would outside, without the pounding heat and wind they stay moist for several days with a small amount of water. Im curious how shocked they will be though going from this ideal climate of a constant 70F, and 16 hours of sunlight to well..lets just say we dont have that in Oregon.

Ill be using these to plug some of the worse off area's when i reseed. Most of the brown you see in the pots is clippings from when i cut it, seems without bugs/wind/mother nature doing its thing the clippings stick around a lot longer.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Been awhile for an update, vacation and such.

I didnt get a chance to overseed my spring renovation KBG area's like i wanted before vacation so ill be doing it this Thursday as time allows.

My 650sqft that i did last Fall starting this thread is looking great. I will probably be dumping some mason sand on it Thursday to attempt to level it a bit more, as well as my back yard. I cant decide if i want to aerate the area or not, i dont feel like it needs it and im worried it will just bring weeds up, ive had zero weed pressure in this area the entire summer and i'd like to keep it that way.


Many of the area's are looking alright, but have some major bare patches or just seem to be struggling, im fairly confident they just need a heavy dose of fertilizer so ill be hitting them with .75N of a 16-16-16 i have when i seed and spread peat.
I have 3 hell strips total, and one other smaller area about 230sqft on the other side of my driveway from my original renovation that is the shadiest part of my yard by far and gets barely any sun most of Winter because of how low low the sun is in the sky my house shadows it. You can see that some area's took much better than others, overall the color in many areas seems off. One area in particular has been hit with weeds, so ill be sure to put down Tenacity over the entire new spring renovation area to try and kill it off.

I also took half of my indoor pots, my pro plugger and went to town in some of the area's that have been the most bare. Its probably the shadiest part of my lawn(the 230sqft) and i can see seedlings growing but they arent really doing much so my hope is by plugging there plus a bit more seed i may get something before winter.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Cool update, and nice work on the edging &#128077;&#127996;

I had similar issues during my 2019 reno that you are having with the area under your hydrangeas. 
It seems that the plant catches the water from rain and the nozzle you have under there, drips heavily on the soil, and no seed will germinate well enough. Coupled with the shade and unfortunately moss develops too darn easily.
Have a quick look at pictures on page 5 of my 2019 journal if you care to, it shows similar issues. Around the edges I hadn't cut back the trees enough and those areas looked the same as under your hydrangeas. I ran out of time in 2019.
I ended up pruning back the shrubs and trees to where I wanted the kbg to grow to, so nothing was over hanging. I am having near 100% success with germination there currently.

Your 650ft area looks great! Zero weeds and nice and thick :thumbup: Will you use pre-m?


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

I love your 650ft area. Looks so neat! Can't wait for my reno to  thicken up like that.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Yea, ive gotten everything i wanted out a monostand so far. I love the uniformity and growth, it looks like its mowed even when its not just because it all grows at about the same rate.

I will be spraying Prodiamine on this 650ft section, this area has always had very few weed issues but better safe than sorry since I have it.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

I aerated, Put down a half yard of Mason sand, 5 month prodiamine and. 75n it's looking good and putting the sand down was more work than expected, especially all by hand with a rake and broom.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

So, last week the weather was looking good for the seeding i did last week...now this.

Looks like my sprinklers are going to be running overtime to keep all that Mazama seed from drying up.
We've literally barely broken 90 all summer except for a few hot days and now a week after i put seed down a heat wave. :x


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Yikes! I didn't know it got that hot out there! Hopefully your water isn't too expensive.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

synergy0852 said:


> Yikes! I didn't know it got that hot out there! Hopefully your water isn't too expensive.


It is expensive dont worry, during the peak summer months its not uncommon to be over $200/mo to keep the grass green and flowers fed.
Luckily we only have it that bad maybe 2-3 months of the year.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

I'll never know your pain. My water bills are done quarterly for me and usually around $120 for the quarter. During normal watering in the peak of summer that quarter is only around $200 so I spend maybe $30/month to irrigate. Best of luck to you getting through this heat wave!!!


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

We have relatively low natural gas and electricity costs so it all evens out in the end probably.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Thoughts on what is happening here?

It happened after aerating and spraying prodiamine. It was watered in the night I put it down. I also dropped. 75n of 16-16-16. I'm wondering if it is from the low scalp cut I gave when putting the sand down?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

I'll try to get out and get pics sometime this week things for the reno are looking better, but of course its 2020 the year of everything going to hell. So here we are with two wildfire's, one north up the hill from us and the much larger one far east.

Major wind storms this week caused a lot of fires across the state.

Thankfully the fire up north that is closest to us seems to be moving away from us, and the winds have started to die down which should hopefully help the firefighters do their job. They have been fighting pop up fires miles away from the larger fires from embers catching the high winds and igniting other area's. So far its ~2k acres burned up on the hill with no houses lost so thats good news. We're still under like level 1 advisement to prepare to evacuate if necessary since yesterday afternoon, but fingers crossed it doesnt come to that.

This was my view from yesterday evening from our 2nd story window.


And map that shows the entire west side of the state covered in smoke 
https://zoom.earth/#view=43.503,-121.679,7z/date=2020-09-09,11:20,-7


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

Hi @FuzzeWuzze, stay safe! That picture looks like a very nice wall painting though.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

That's too close.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Turns out we aren't under level 1 now, and they hit it and another fire with a big water tanker plane tonight so it's slowly coming under control. Its also been a pain to deal with on my new reno, most of the seedlings seemed rather well rooted so i just went over everything with my mower on a higher setting to mulch the mountains of leaves that accumulated on our property with all the wind. Should all be done now, so over the next few days i get to clean up the 3million sticks and leaves that remain to keep everything from getting smothered.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

A lot of sections are getting a bit shaggy because I havent been able to go out and mow as often as usual because our air quality has been in the "Highly dangerous" zone from all the smoke since middle of last week. Finally got out today to mow, mostly to mulch as many leaves as possible off the grass that have blown off in the wind storms of last week but dont want to stay out there for more than 10-15 minutes.

Even though its been "clear" and 85 in theory according to our forecast, in most cases its been smoggy and barely reaching 70 because of the smoke blocking the sun. Today was the first day i actually saw sun rays casting shadows in a week. Crazy times.

I'd like to start my Fall blitz tommorow, the 600ft section looks great still but while standing on it can still see a bunch of bare dirt from the aerator/sand.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

A few pics from today after a mow.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Other than the onslaught of leaves I know in going to face in the next few weeks I love fall. The lawn has thickened up significantly since I put the half lb N urea down 12 days ago, I'll hit it again this weekend some time.
The other areas are going alright, I expect them to fill in a bit over the remainder of fall and get full early spring like I saw with my initial 600sqft. I'm seriously impressed with the color, I haven't put down iron since July I think which was my last FAS app


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Man its hard to look at the lawn after looking at these old pictures from the end of last season. But either way things made it through our wet oregon fall/winter and other than a few area's of disease seem to have made it through and i see green blades everywhere that should fill in over the coming months.

So far entering season 3 on the first area and the second season for the other area's its looking alright considering how little i did to it over the wet season.

I will say though, the main area i added sand too last year is better than the others, so i will likely spread sand onto those area's later this spring when the constant wet weather subsides. I have some Poa A type grass randomly in my 600sqft, but with the sand the plants literally fall out of the dirt with no effort. I suppose thats one positive to having a small lawn, i can just walk it and manually pull all the poa out in an hour or two. That said this year i'll likely do my aggressive Tenacity treatment on the newer area's because it worked so well on the original 600 sqft. If i remember i did two 6oz applications about 2 weeks apart which fried everything that wasnt KBG, since there is some rye grasses and other weeds randomly appearing that apparently made it through the nuke last year.









I hit everything with the max rate of Moss-Out earlier this week before the rain started to start killing back the moss in area's it tends to take over in the fall/winter. The sun is just too low in the sky here and certain area's are shaded by my fence that arent the rest of the year go pretty mossy as you can see at the back of several area's.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Still quite cold during the night here, but getting into the mid 60's often and into the mid 70's next weekend.

Hit all my new area's with my 2nd dose of 6oz/Acre rate Tenacity and everything that isnt Mazama lights up like a christmas tree, so im pretty happy to have that at my disposal to get rid of all these weed grasses that a normal 3 way wouldnt touch. This worked well last year on my initial 600sqft, so hoping it does on this newer 1500sqft of Mazama planted last year. Hopefully this weekend i can get in another cut and start cleaning everything up, there's still a lot of wind dropping twigs everywhere.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Not sure if anyone is reading this anymore but ill post for posterity.

Much of the poa that was bleached with the tenacity is now brown and dead, some spots still white and slowly dying. Tenacity works, just very very slowly. Its amazing how selective it is as you can see the Mazama growing up through the dying grass. Overall im hopeful the new areas will be weed free here in another month as the season kicks off here. One thing i need to is aerate and topdress everything with sand. While it may look flat in the first picture, my new renos are super bumpy.


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## Burkesw (Jul 19, 2019)

I've been keeping up to date and you've inspired me to try out Mazama despite our soggy PNW winters. I'm just south of you a few hours. I'm 50/50 ***/FF and have a hard time convincing my better half that we need full ***. Maybe this fall it will happen.

I'm new to oregon (3 years in) and the worm mounds here are crazy! Hard to get things nice and flat with that going on. I also need to try out tenacity to battle poa, I only have a few spots but don't want it to take over.

Please keep the updates coming they are great!


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Burkesw said:


> I've been keeping up to date and you've inspired me to try out Mazama despite our soggy PNW winters. I'm just south of you a few hours. I'm 50/50 ***/FF and have a hard time convincing my better half that we need full ***. Maybe this fall it will happen.
> 
> I'm new to oregon (3 years in) and the worm mounds here are crazy! Hard to get things nice and flat with that going on. I also need to try out tenacity to battle poa, I only have a few spots but don't want it to take over.
> 
> Please keep the updates coming they are great!


Yea they are, i have a lot of birds in my yard all day eating worms.

So far i've really enjoyed the KBG, although its been a slow trod to get things filled in on certain spots of my yard with very little sun in winter/fall. Having never grown KBG really, it really is a compact grass which has its benefits for smaller yards like ours. The main one being because it grows so low, and is so dark, everything sticks out that isnt Mazama. This is good and bad, bad for people with larger yards, not bad for us with only a few 1k sqft since you can just walk the yard in 30 mins and pull anything that isnt dark green.

Just be careful with Tenacity at the rates im using it, it will probably fry your FF. Which depending if you want it gone and just have KBG might not be a bad idea. But no gaurentee it wont also fry whatever KBG variety you have.


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## PNW_George (May 28, 2018)

You are brave to attempt pure KBG west of the Cascades. I would think you would require a lot of sun and perfect drainage to get it to establish and thrive. I'll be curious to follow your results.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

PNW_George said:


> You are brave to attempt pure KBG west of the Cascades. I would think you would require a lot of sun and perfect drainage to get it to establish and thrive. I'll be curious to follow your results.


Its one reason i went for Mazama, its shade tolerance. So far its been great although a bit slow to fill in the shadier area's. But thats what plugs are for


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## Burkesw (Jul 19, 2019)

Considering all the grass seed farmers that are in the Willamette Valley, it seemed like a worthy challenge. If they can do it, we can right?! :mrgreen:


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Its been like 3 years since ive used Milo, but it was on sale (still $15 which is ridiculous) but i only need 1 bag for my yard so dumped it yesterday. I miss the smell.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Things finally starting to look presentable. Now I just need to clean up the back edge and define a line and get some more mulch.


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## Jay20nj (Jul 25, 2018)

Can you give more details on your tenacity poa battle? How often did you apply, how many applications, rates?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Jay20nj said:


> Can you give more details on your tenacity poa battle? How often did you apply, how many applications, rates?


Overall it seems to have worked pretty well, although i think another app would have finished the job.

I did 2 apps of 6oz/Acre rate, about 2-3 weeks apart i think. Basically once the poa/weed grasses start to light up a bit i was hitting with another dose to fry them to make sure they didn't recover. The theory being PRG(and assumed other rye type grasses) really only tolerates up to 5oz. In theory I maybe should have done 7 or 8oz/Acre rate which is the KBG max, but then after my 2 doses's i'd be maxxed for my yearly limit and im not sure if it would stunt the KBG getting that close to max.

My mazama seemed unphased by this dose.

In other news i hit everything with a PGR/FAS/Humic/Fulvic cocktail yesterday. Tommorrow i go rent my aerator, remove plugs, and topdress everything with sand since i had such good luck with it on my 600sqft reno im doing it across my entire 2800sqft of turf this year. We have really hard clay and putting holes filled with sand everywhere really helped.

As with everyone here, this is my favorite time of year.
Didnt have time to blow before i had to run in to put the kids to bed, since im making a giant mess tommorrow morning anyways i decided not to bother.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Could use some help, this year has not been kind to my KBG, especially the first place i renovated in this post.

I am unsure if its disease or grubs but it started around June and got progressively worse in July even after putting a round of DiseaseEx down in early June. The roots being basically non existent when i pull them up is what leads me to think grubs, although im not sure if its also just the grass has been dead for a few weeks thats caused it?

The dead area's i can pull up with basically no effort as you can tell f rom the video, the area is not compacted at all and you can see my early sand additions have really loosened the clay into some amazing looking soil. Verified my watering hasnt changed and all of my heads are spraying properly. Its been hot but this is the only area suffering and its clearly not heat stress. I've never had grub issues but i cant find any when pulling up the dead area's.

The area's seem totally zapped and dead, no coming back which is a bit of a bummer, i want to figure out whats happening so i can plug it in Fall from other areas. I think i may have a bit of Mazama seed left actually from the reno ill throw down and baby, its way old but ill just throw it down heavy and hope.



https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6f1TkV_pp4Q

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-TGvKuIUylM


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Bill bugs or grubs?


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Sorry to hear that. If it peels up like that, insects probably got to the roots. I would guess grub or billbug damage. Preventative apps for grubs for next year around Father's Day should help. You could also do the soapy water test, with cutting out both ends of a can and filling it up, to look for floating insects (billbugs).


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## lawn-wolverine (Aug 15, 2021)

Chris LI said:


> Sorry to hear that. If it peels up like that, insects probably got to the roots. I would guess grub or billbug damage. Preventative apps for grubs for next year around Father's Day should help. You could also do the soapy water test, with cutting out both ends of a can and filling it up, to look for floating insects (billbugs).


Did you solve the dead patches problem? If not, I would nuke the entire lawn (especially the GREEN surrounding area)with Bayer FAST ACTION Grub Killer. Then water and water and water it in. Do not use the long-acting stuff. You need immediate relief.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Small update, seems its turned a corner although ill admit a few other parts of my lawn are exhibiting it as well.

I heavily raked as much of the dead material out a few weeks ago, pulled 6 plugs from the edges where it was super dense and threw a handful of Mazama seed i had laying around thats like 3 years old in some Peat. None seems to have germinated yet in the last 7-10 days but its been kept in a big air tight dog food storage bin so hopefully some takes.

Also went a bit too hard with the Scotts w/ Tenacity at closer to 1.25# when i was aiming for 1# but ended up rounding my estimates a bit too hard, either way seems to be booming and a few leaves with white tips that im sure will go away.

KBG comes through again in repairing. its really amazing stuff  Im going to keep pushing it in hopes it can fill in early this fall so i can put Dimension down maybe in early October.

Also love that i just noticed a god damn grub in the close up i took....FFS.





On a unrelated note i really want to figure out what i can do to fill in some of the areas that get less sun, they are green and look good from a distance but when you get up close you can still see dirt even 3+ years later. It continues to grow up but in some of the areas with more shade just doesnt thicken up like in others with the same fert schedule etc and sometimes only 10 feet between a good and "bad" area.

The most heavily shaded area i just gave up and overseeded with some PRG because it only gets a few hours of sun during late spring/summer and its not enough to really keep it thick and weed free. I'd like to not to have to do the other areas, but they get so much shade even in summer they are growing moss with 1 inch/week watering.

Any tips to try this fall to thicken it up would be appreciated, otherwise i may just overseed it with PRG next spring. My lack of doing anything last year let some bare spots have spurge take hold and now im spraying constantly to get rid of the crap.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

That's not a grub. It looks like a worm. I don't remember what can be common in your area. Some worms do eat grass (eg. armyworm). Try to id the worm.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Been pushing it hard with .5N of AS a week all September, and as you can see its filling in nicely. With the warm weather we're still having it might fill in entirely by the end of October at this point.











I do however have a question about some other area's. I cant for the life of me figure out why these area's are so thin. My only assumption is its the tree's sucking up water, but all my hell strips grow but just dont get thick. Any idea's to try and nudge it to spread? I cut at around an inch already and am hitting it all with .5N/week this fall and its getting better but its never been great. Its basically looked like this since spring.









Compared to the area literally across the sidewalk


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Water would be the thing to try. See if daily watering for a week helps it.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Shade and trees sucking up the water can be tough on grass. Even more so on bluegrass. Increase watering like g-man says and see how it goes.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

I concur with more water, if tree roots are sucking it up. I have trees with dense surface roots (maples), so I water very heavily under them and use wetting agents to move water down through the tree root web. Also, foliar apps of urea or AS, in addition to your granular apps, will get nutrients directly to the leaf surface, so the trees aren't stealing N from the turf along with the water they're stealing. It has made a noticeable difference for me.


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