# New sod Latitude 36



## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

I put down a pallet of Latitude 36 on my front lawn under a pair of trees where 419 was really thin and I actually had more dirt than grass.I'm watering every morning to keep it moist and was wondering what else I need to do? How soon do I fertilize? And will the latitude start taking over that side of the lawn?


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Did you kill your existing grass first? or lay it on top?
Usually you need to figure out what caused your 419 to do so bad before getting new sod. Which i bet was the trees. which direction does your front lawn face?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Redland1 said:


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Did you roll it? It looks like there are some edges sticking up in this photo. The new sod needs good contact with the soil to take root. I would apply a starter fertilizer now if you haven't already.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

Tellycoleman said:


> Did you kill your existing grass first? or lay it on top?
> Usually you need to figure out what caused your 419 to do so bad before getting new sod. Which i bet was the trees. which direction does your front lawn face?


I didn't kill it,but I did run the lawnmower at the lowest setting.It faces northeast.The thinning was either the shade of House,tree,both,orthe lack of irrigation.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

Ware said:


> Redland1 said:
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I didn't roll it.What is used to roll it? The edges do have contact with soil,it might just be that the ground you was a little high and the sod sits higher than the sidewalk.

When I used to work construction in Miami I installed sod three times that I can remember and we just layed the sod and watered with a construction water truck and it rooted.We even installed sod on a golf course on Normandy isle in Miami Beach.Hopefully my sod will root.

I will put down the starter fert today.


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## gijoe4500 (Mar 17, 2017)

lawn rollers can be rented from various places, like SunBelt rentals. They are just to help ensure good sod to soil contact. Eliminating any air pockets between them.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Redland1 said:


> I didn't kill it,but I did run the lawnmower at the lowest setting.It faces northeast.The thinning was either the shade of House,tree,both,orthe lack of irrigation.


Oh . Umm.. When did you lay the sod? Do you have access to a sod or grass cutter from a rental place like HomeDepot?

Big Big BIg mistake to lay sod over ANY existing grass. I am sorry to say it but if you can you need to rent a sod cutter take up all the old grass and dead material and lay the existing sod down. Decomposing of the old grass would develop an a slime, which would cause problems; also, the fact that you would have air trapped between the sod and the ground allowing the roots to dry out and die. You have to roll your yard with a large roller you fill with water from HomeDepot or a rental place. This will help eliminate air pockets and have good soil contact. You already have suboptimal growing conditions since your tifway wasnt doing well. You already have a strike against you. 
My contractor laid sod over a new consruction house with mainly weeds and within 3 weeks all was dead. When you laid sod in miami did you ever go back and see what the grass looked like in 3 weeks? They actually laid sod without rolling it????We are asking you did you roll it because you can see in between lines of sod that the grass doesnt meet with the next laid piece of sod. 90% of all new lawn visitors to this site start by saying "I am in a new construction home and sod was laid BUt............!!!!!"

I would take action. I hope it turns out.
At least go up and aggressively trim the tops of your trees to give the bermuda a fighting chance.


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## Bunnysarefat (May 4, 2017)

Those trees look like they may be live oaks. With those trees, and a northeast facing house, you're going to have a tough time with any grass being thick throughout the yard. You may want to take an entire day in about a month (when growing season really kicks off) and note exactly how much direct sun each portion of the yard receives. If spots aren't getting at least 6 hours the Bermuda will struggle.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

Tellycoleman said:


> Redland1 said:
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> > I didn't kill it,but I did run the lawnmower at the lowest setting.It faces northeast.The thinning was either the shade of House,tree,both,orthe lack of irrigation.
> ...


The sod on the golf course did not get rolled and it did live.As far as my grass the squares are butting up against each other even though the picture doesn't look that way.I will take pictures from above to show were they are touching.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

I'm not as concerned about putting it over the top of barely existent bermuda as I am about putting bermuda back into the same area. The existing bermuda likely failed due to shade and I can't think Lat36 will fare much better. Rolling it would be a good idea to help ensure good sod-to-soil contact. An application of starter fertilizer might be beneficial as well, but I would recommend contacting the sod farm to find out if the grass was recently fertilized before adding more.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I was looking back through your Very thin,patchy Bermuda thread, and I think this has the potential to cause you some problems...



Redland1 said:


> *I put down Pre M and Lesco starter fert today.* What fert should I put down the next go round Lesco with iron,Milorganite,or something else?


I missed what kind of pre-e you applied earlier this month, but I know the Prodiamine label says _*to avoid turfgrass injury, do not apply to newly set sod until the sod has rooted and exposed edges have filled in.*_ Dimension/Dithiopyr labels say basically the same thing.

I love Lat 36, and I know this is probably not what you want to hear, but those trees are definitely going to win the long game.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Ware said:


> I was looking back through your Very thin,patchy Bermuda thread, and I think this has the potential to cause you some problems...
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Is there anything that can neutralize pre emergent? @Ware If post is correct it was put down 20 days ago. WIll bio-char or another type of activated carbon help? But wouldnt that have to be applied under the sod?


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## Rockinar (Jul 21, 2017)

Lots of variables. Id water it more than once a day for a few days.

As far as laying it on top of scalped grass? It may hold, it may not. Im not familiar with Latitude 36. I can say I have tossed down two pallets of Bermuda on top of scalped Bermuda and some spots I did not even scalp at all. Just tossed it on top of the old grass. It all grew.

My front yard is just like yours. Small and has a live oak in it. The tree is killing the grass from shade and the roots sre sucking all the moisture out of it and roots are surfacing. Huge pain. I think Im going to have to make an executive decision on whether to have a nice front yard and remove the trees or keep the trees and consider the front a loss. I dont think I can have both.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

Ware said:


> I was looking back through your Very thin,patchy Bermuda thread, and I think this has the potential to cause you some problems...
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I applied Lesco 007 which I think had prodiamine.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

Sod is looking good and has some roots because it has some tug when I try to lift it.I'm going to fertilize it tomorrow or Thursday along with the rest of the lawn and was wondering what fertilizer.I have 12lbs of Lesco starter fert which is way more than I need for that new sod but not enough for the whole lawn so I do need to buy some more fertilizer.Home Depot has a Lesco 15-5-10 with 3% iron for $29 and Siteone has a Lesco 20-0-10 with 2% iron for $27.Which is better?


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

I'm going to say that it would be a prudent idea for you to start a lawn journal, so you can keep track of your applications to the lawn. Open that link, and save a copy for yourself. There's nothing wrong with using the starter fert on the whole lot, and using up what you have left. The starter fert is probably good enough for 1-2 months after application, so I would wait to put down the rest of it on the new sod, however if you wanted to get a bag (and this is just me) I would go with the 20-0-10 with 2% iron. It really depends on what your fertilization rates for your whole yard are going to be, and how many pounds of N on the ground your lawn in total is going to need per month. If you can get 1 bag of the 20-0-10 to cover the whole lot, it's easier to for me to spread 1 bag vs 4 of a lower NPK ratio due to the size of the lot I have. For example, I had a bag of 23-0-3 that I just put over my whole lot, and I'm good for a month.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

I fertilized the whole yard with the starter fert on March 2.The lawn is 5083 sq.feet.so if my math is right then with the starter fert I have left I would have a little under half a pound of N per 1000 to do the whole yard with.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

You could save the rest of that bag, and use it for an end-of-season feeding when you normally back off of the N. Like I suggested, I'd go for the 20-0-10 and put down 25# and have applied 1#N for the lot.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

Colonel K0rn said:


> You could save the rest of that bag, and use it for an end-of-season feeding when you normally back off of the N. Like I suggested, I'd go for the 20-0-10 and put down 25# and have applied 1#N for the lot.


Ok,thanks.Thats what I'm going to do.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

How soon can I mow the new sod?


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## gijoe4500 (Mar 17, 2017)

Redland1 said:


> How soon can I mow the new sod?


I just did a lot of reading and asking on this very question.

The answer is... It depends.

Basically, you want to make sure your sod is growing well and rooting/rooted. Friday is 3 weeks for my Celebration, and I'll be cutting it all this weekend. I did a test strip a couple days ago to see how it would handle it, and it took it like a champ and is coming back in wonderfully.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)




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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Nice!


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

Ware said:


> Nice!


Thanks.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Looks good. You get it rolled out, and the wife happier? Happy wife = happy life.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

Lol,she is definitely happier with the only grass that looks good in our yard.I didn't end up rolling it,just watering 1-2 times daily.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

It's starting to thin out in some places.Is it because I'm not watering enough? I was watering twice daily for ten minutes each time.Now I'm just doing ten minutes once a day or every other day.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Redland1 said:


> It's starting to thin out in some places.Is it because I'm not watering enough? I was watering twice daily for ten minutes each time.Now I'm just doing ten minutes once a day or every other day.


Hard to say... "10 minutes" doesn't really define anything meaningful unless it is coupled with the precipitation rate. Are you using a hose end sprinkler or in-ground system?

For example, MP Rotators have a precipitation rate of 0.4 in/hr, so 10 minutes of runtime on a properly designed system is only ~0.07" of irrigation. A similar zone using sprays could have a precipitation rate of 1.50 in/hr, so 10 minutes of runtime would put down ~0.25" in that scenario. Rotors can vary wildly depending on which nozzle is installed. The best way to determine your actual precipitation rate is to do an irrigation audit with some gauges like these.

All that said, it looks like it is drying out - which could mean not enough water, or maybe poor contact with the soil since it was laid over existing turf.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

Ware said:


> Redland1 said:
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> > It's starting to thin out in some places.Is it because I'm not watering enough? I was watering twice daily for ten minutes each time.Now I'm just doing ten minutes once a day or every other day.
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I'm using an Orbit Impact sprinkler on a spike but have never measured output.I do notice water pressure fluctuates where I live.Some times the impact shoots out so far and moves so fast you think it's a farm sprinkler and other times the stream is weak and take forever to rotate completely.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Looks dried out to me. I'd definitely up the water if your only doing 10 minutes. The impacts I have take forever to get a decent amount of water down.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

Went a little too low in a few spots on the first cut.Will it come back in those areas?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@Redland1 yes it will recover


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

No worries. Bermuda is not killed by scalping. It reacts to scalping by growing back bigger and badder.


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## raldridge2315 (Jul 1, 2017)

Bermuda grass cannot be mowed to death!


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

raldridge2315 said:


> Bermuda grass cannot be mowed to death!


The only thing that I know that kills bermuda is shade.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

That one spot pretty much filled in,but I was unhappy with the height of cut so I lowered the mower to the second notch and it scalped the 36 in a bunch of places.When it grows back in will it scalp at that height again?

The existing 419 I cut on the first notch which is supposed to be 1.25" with no scalping at all.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

I think step one, in my humble opinion, is to decide if you want to take advice here or not. If you look at Wares lawn and some others, these guys know what they're doing.

What I have observed so far is several people pointing out the same couple of issues - existing sod, pre emergenct, not putting in fresh and level dirt, not rolling out the sod, to which your responses have ranged from "the golf course didn't have to do that" (total different regimen and staff caring for grass with many years experience most likely) to "I'm not concerned about that".

It sounds like what you want is someone to say "you're doing the right thing keep it up", but if your goal is to have a nice looking sod install, you need to do the basics:

1.) Remove previous sod and top bit of soil
2.) Put Down new dirt and sand
3.) level the ground properly
4.) put down sod
5.) put down starter fertilizer
6.) water and roll, or roll and water

If there were less steps than these that resulted in optimal sod installation, believe me when i tell you, people that install sod for money would skip them.

I had a calculus teacher who used to put everyone's grade on the board (without names) and say "those of you up here, keep doing what you're doing..." and then point to the Ds and Fs and say "those of you down here, try something different, because what you're doing isn't working"

No offense intended. I think you just need to decide what your actual goal is, and then pick one of the paths that leads to that.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

SCGrassMan said:


> I think step one, in my humble opinion, is to decide if you want to take advice here or not. If you look at Wares lawn and some others, these guys know what they're doing.
> 
> What I have observed so far is several people pointing out the same couple of issues - existing sod, pre emergenct, not putting in fresh and level dirt, not rolling out the sod, to which your responses have ranged from "the golf course didn't have to do that" (total different regimen and staff caring for grass with many years experience most likely) to "I'm not concerned about that".
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I came to TLF to learn more about lawn care and do listen to the advice,but sometimes I take a different route because I know it has worked before even though it might not be the best option.My goal is to have a better lawn than most of my neighbors and to not spend a whole lot of money and time maintaining it.I'm not looking for a show lawn,just one that looks good I can be proud of.Currently I am mowing three times a week and watering twice.My two apps have been a pound of N which I'm going to raise to 1.5-2lbs next time around.

As far as the Lat 36 I mowed as low as the mower would go then racked all the soil which tore out a bunch of the existing turf and I was left with almost all soil before I layed the sod.It has actually been growing good and the gaps have almost completely filled in.My only issue was that i wanted the cut lower than the third notch on the mower even though it was looking good at that setting.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Three times a week is impressive! Time to go Reel Low maybe?


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

SCGrassMan said:


> Three times a week is impressive! Time to go Reel Low maybe?


Yeah,my wife thinks I'm crazy.I have been thinking about trying out a Scott's Reel mower.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Redland1 said:


> SCGrassMan said:
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Is that one of the manual push reel types?


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

SCGrassMan said:


> Redland1 said:
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Yes,it is.Havent really done my research on reel mowers,but I saw that one at HD.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Just mail me the money instead. You will get the satisfaction of spending it, without having to store that junk in your garage


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

SCGrassMan said:


> Just mail me the money instead. You will get the satisfaction of spending it, without having to store that junk in your garage


Lol.What do you suggest as a starter reel?


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Redland1 said:


> SCGrassMan said:
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> > Just mail me the money instead. You will get the satisfaction of spending it, without having to store that junk in your garage
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I'd say a GM1000 or a JD 220e Hybrid, or go straight for a Swardman.

Buy once, cry once. Those are beasts that will last a long time and if you decide to part with them, should keep a good fraction of what you paid for them.

I have a GM1600 but a small yard. I've definitely thought about going smaller but I like how massive and heavy the Gm1600 is.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

Just fertilized today with an 18-10-5 from the local Co op that was $13 for 50lbs.I put down 1lb of N on the Lat.36 ,and 2lbs per 1k on one side of my house that is pretty bare,and 2lbs per 1k on my backyard that has a lot of bare areas as well.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)

Found a couple of purple Nutsedge in the Lat.36 and pulled them by hand but a small piece of the Lat.36 started to come up as well.So I am starting to think that the roots are shallow.Wondering if the pre emergent is not letting it root deeply and that's why it dries out so quickly.


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## Redland1 (Feb 26, 2018)




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