# New Results are in - season #2



## JBC-1 (Apr 5, 2020)

Hello All,

First off I want to say thank you to all that has helped me throughout the last year in helping me take my lawn to the next level. This forum is awesome!

Last year was my first year finally getting serious with my lawn. Everything started well, then throughout the summer ended up getting a large chinch bug infestation that ate away at a lot of my lawn. Did a full topdress and overseed last fall, then a N-Blitz, and it turned out better than I was expecting. Fast forward to now...just did a soil test and got the results back. Looking for thoughts from the experts here.

For context, I did a local test last year, but this year sent it off to Waypoint. The first 3 are this years test (front, back and side lawns). The last image is last years test for comparison. I think I may have miscalculated on how much P & K I applied last year.

FYI...I currently have 21-0-0, and an organic 9-2-2 for fertilizers. I can also get some 12-0-18 for a great price right now. I do plan to spray iron this year to green it up more.







Last Years


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## JBC-1 (Apr 5, 2020)

Any insights?

Here is a link for last seasons thread viewtopic.php?f=24&t=16457


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I dont know the price difference between AL Canada and waypoint. The A&L seems good if they test for sulfur, iron, etc.

Front and back look fairly similar that you can save $$ and do a single test for both. Even the side looks similar except the P.

High pH soils, so AMS for nitrogen would be my choice. It will also help with sulfur.

They did a M3 P test, so it can over extract P that is not available in high pH soils. The side and back could use more P, the front you can stop.

Foliar for iron is a good approach for the high pH.


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## Lawn Whisperer (Feb 15, 2021)

If you decide to stay with Waypoint, you can order the Alternative Extractant for Phosphorus (Olsen) to get the a more accurate level of available P for high PH soil.

Your K levels are well within/above optimum levels (ppm). It's just that you have high CEC, which can hold more nutrients. I'm thinking that's the reason for the K recommendations from the lab. The other reason is I could think of is the K:Mg ratio, but yours is pretty close to 1:1.


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## JBC-1 (Apr 5, 2020)

g-man said:


> I dont know the price difference between AL Canada and waypoint. The A&L seems good if they test for sulfur, iron, etc.
> 
> Front and back look fairly similar that you can save $$ and do a single test for both. Even the side looks similar except the P.
> 
> ...


@g-man thanks for the reply. The costs at AL Canada for a full test was almost 3 times as much as Waypoint thus one of the reasons I went with them.

Based on what you said, if I need to add some P to the side and back, should I do that through a 18-0-12, or use the organic 9-2-2 that I have?

I want to use some AMS to help thicken up the lawn this spring, with a mix of any of the above, then come fall just use AMS.


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## JBC-1 (Apr 5, 2020)

g-man said:


> I dont know the price difference between AL Canada and waypoint. The A&L seems good if they test for sulfur, iron, etc.
> 
> Front and back look fairly similar that you can save $$ and do a single test for both. Even the side looks similar except the P.
> 
> ...


@g-man thanks for the reply. The costs at AL Canada for a full test was almost 3 times as much as Waypoint thus one of the reasons I went with them.

Based on what you said, if I need to add some P to the side and back, should I do that through a 18-0-12, or use the organic 9-2-2 that I have?

I want to use some AMS to help thicken up the lawn this spring, with a mix of any of the above, then come fall just use AMS.


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## doverosx (Aug 7, 2019)

Might as well use the 9-2-2 to supplement your P levels. You may consider adding sulfur to your soil as well but you'll definitely want to get AMS. I could only find sprayable AMS in my area Ontario.


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## doverosx (Aug 7, 2019)

Lawn Whisperer said:


> If you decide to stay with Waypoint, you can order the Alternative Extractant for Phosphorus (Olsen) to get the a more accurate level of available P for high PH soil.
> 
> Your K levels are well within/above optimum levels (ppm). It's just that you have high CEC, which can hold more nutrients. I'm thinking that's the reason for the K recommendations from the lab. The other reason is I could think of is the K:Mg ratio, but yours is pretty close to 1:1.


Good point on the Olsen test. I'll do that in addition to the S3M next go.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

> Your K levels are well within/above optimum levels (ppm). It's just that you have high CEC, which can hold more nutrients. I'm thinking that's the reason for the K recommendations from the lab. The other reason is I could think of is the K:Mg ratio, but yours is pretty close to 1:1.


 :thumbup: 
You do NOT want K:Mg levels to exceed 1.00. i.e. you don't want more K than Mg in Base Saturation levels.


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## JBC-1 (Apr 5, 2020)

Ridgerunner said:


> > Your K levels are well within/above optimum levels (ppm). It's just that you have high CEC, which can hold more nutrients. I'm thinking that's the reason for the K recommendations from the lab. The other reason is I could think of is the K:Mg ratio, but yours is pretty close to 1:1.
> 
> 
> :thumbup:
> You do NOT want K:Mg levels to exceed 1.00. i.e. you don't want more K than Mg in Base Saturation levels.


Thanks for the advice. However I honestly do not know what that means. Can you elaborate a bit on this topic? I am trying to get a better understanding of my high CEC.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

CEC means Cation (positively charged atoms and molecules- most plant nutrients are cations) Exchange Capacity. It's a value/measurement reflecting the ability of the soil to hold plant nutrients.
My explaination: 
Think of buckets: low CEC is a small bucket, high CEC is a large bucket.
Clay and less acidic organic matter possess negatively charged sites and attract and hold cations. The strength of the attraction varies. Weak attraction results in Cations that can break away (exchangeable) into the soil solution (soil moisture) and become available for plant/turf uptake through the roots. As the plant removes nutrients from solution, Nature attempts to replace that nutrient from the CEC reserves (nature attempts to keep a "balance" between solution content and CEC content through a rather obtuse process of diffusion and dispersion). The "balanced" amount of nutrient available in solution is proportionate (but much less than) the amount held on CEC sites.
Back to the Bucket: Nature abhors a vacuum, so the soil CEC is always filled by something, The bucket is always full. If not by nutrients, then by some other atom/molecule. For example, a common non-nutrient is hydrogen (but it can be a number of elements including other nutrients). When Nature balances between hydrogen held on CEC and in soil solution, it results in low soil pH. The more H+ on CEC sites, the lower the soil solution pH. EDIT: In addition, another related factor in this "balancing" between CEC reserves and soil solution levels is the relative proportion of CEC sites held by individual nutrients (or non nutrient cations) to one another.
To cut to the chase, as CEC gets larger, to get Nature to balance nutrients on CEC sites with an amount in soil solution that is sufficient for nutrient plant uptake/availability, the amount of the test measured nutrient in the soil must increase with the size of the CEC.
With some nutrients, like K and Mg, if there is more K available than Mg, the plant may/can start substituting K for Mg. This can result in inefficient plant processes that can detrimentally affect plant performance.
Clear as mud?


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## JBC-1 (Apr 5, 2020)

Ridgerunner said:


> CEC means Cation (positively charged atoms and molecules- most plant nutrients are cations) Exchange Capacity. It's a value/measurement reflecting the ability of the soil to hold plant nutrients.
> My explaination:
> Think of buckets: low CEC is a small bucket, high CEC is a large bucket.
> Clay and less acidic organic matter possess negatively charged sites and attract and hold cations. The strength of the attraction varies. Weak attraction results in Cations that can break away (exchangeable) into the soil solution (soil moisture) and become available for plant/turf uptake through the roots. As the plant removes nutrients from solution, Nature attempts to replace that nutrient from the CEC reserves (nature attempts to keep a "balance" between solution content and CEC content through a rather obtuse process of diffusion and dispersion). The "balanced" amount of nutrient available in solution is proportionate (but much less than) the amount held on CEC sites.
> ...


@Ridgerunner wow...thanks as always for the detailed response. I think I now understand CEC, but am a bit off on how if I apply K (as recommended) the lawn may/can start substituting K for Mg. If I apply some 18-0-12 how will I know how much to apply so I don't make more K available than Mg. Is it even that simple, or should I just try to stick to the basics for now?

As I mentioned above, I want to spoon feed some AMS for a few week to help thicken up the lawn from my overseed last fall. But if I need to apply K as recommended, should I be doing that with some organic 9-2-2 or synthetic 18-0-12?

FYI...this is what my lawn looks like after I cut yesterday for the 2nd time.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

I often hesitate or just don't post as I have the concern that folks will misunderstand the significance and over react to the information.
Plants, especially turf is very resilient and efficient at taking in and using nutrients.
Almost nothing in lawn care is a redline. Black or white. It's a continuum, a steady progression. 
For instance, if your Mg levels Fall to 37 ppm (MLSN), your turf isn't going to die the next day, it's just very likely that it will begin to perform poorly and the lower Mg gets, the more likely the worse the performance will be. It's just an indicator of a level where studies have shown a likely drop in performance are likely to start occurring. It's statistics.
In regard to K and Mg. Studies have found that when K base saturation exceeds Mg base saturation levels, plants will often start performing less well. 
There should be no issues in adjusting your nutrient (K) levels by adding K in reasonable incriments. It's suggested that no more than one pound of any nutrient be added in a month. In part, to lessen the effect of any imbalances. Short term imbalances due to reasonable nutrient applications are not an issue. Just avoid massive additions or long-term imbalances with some nutrients based on the results from a properly sampled soil test. (examples: K:Mg, Mn:Fe)
EDIT: Statement deleted as the study referred to can no longer be found for verification.
Adjust away, just try to follow the 1lb/month rule. Oh, btw, the 1lb/month rule isn't a redline either. We don't have redlines, just rumble strips.


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## JBC-1 (Apr 5, 2020)

Ridgerunner said:


> I often hesitate or just don't post as I have the concern that folks will misunderstand the significance and over react to the information.
> Plants, especially turf is very resilient and efficient at taking in and using nutrients.
> Almost nothing in lawn care is a redline. Black or white. It's a continuum, a steady progression.
> For instance, if your Mg levels Fall to 37 ppm (MLSN), your turf isn't going to die the next day, it's just very likely that it will begin to perform poorly and the lower Mg gets, the more likely the worse the performance will be. It's just an indicator of a level where studies have shown a likely drop in performance are likely to start occurring. It's statistics.
> ...


Thanks for the reply. I think my plan will be to spoon feed some AMS for a month, then switch to the organic 9-2-2 before the summer heat hits. I know my levels for K are not that bad, but am worried the organic fert wont be adding enough for the season, as I will more than likely revert back to AMS for the fall blitz. Or maybe I should just add the 18-0-12 at the end of the season?


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## Lawn Whisperer (Feb 15, 2021)

I would refer to the lab's annual recommendation of K2O. 
I'm not sure if you can get your hands on sulfate of potash (SOP 0-0-50), but you can use that to meet your 2-3# of k/ annual. You can read other options on the Soil Remediation Guidelines . If not then, you might have to go with the 18-0-12 to achieve your annual K requirements as per the soil report.

IMO, I don't think the applying or not applying the K in your lawn will have any noticable positive or negative affect in your lawn. You just have to be mindful of the K saruration and K:Mg ratio in the future.


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## JBC-1 (Apr 5, 2020)

Lawn Whisperer said:


> I would refer to the lab's annual recommendation of K2O.
> I'm not sure if you can get your hands on sulfate of potash (SOP 0-0-50), but you can use that to meet your 2-3# of k/ annual. You can read other options on the Soil Remediation Guidelines . If not then, you might have to go with the 18-0-12 to achieve your annual K requirements as per the soil report.
> 
> IMO, I don't think the applying or not applying the K in your lawn will have any noticable positive or negative affect in your lawn. You just have to be mindful of the K saruration and K:Mg ratio in the future.


So I was able to source some SPO 0-0-50 ($49 for a 50lb bag). With that said, this is from a Golf supplier, so I asked if they could look at my soil test and give me their recommendations. Here is what they said;

They said my Mg and S is low, but my K does not look that bad. They said rather than the 0-0-50, I should use a K-Mag 0-0-22 so I can cover all my basis.

Considering the K:Mg ratio, what are thoughts on this?


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## Dave81NJ (Jun 7, 2018)

question for the experts .... are you guys concerned about his Mg to Ca saturation %? Shouldn't it be 4 to 1 or 5 to 1? His is more like 10 to 1


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## Lawn Whisperer (Feb 15, 2021)

JBC-1 said:


> They said my Mg and S is low, but my K does not look that bad. They said rather than the 0-0-50, I should use a K-Mag 0-0-22 so I can cover all my basis.
> 
> Considering the K:Mg ratio, what are thoughts on this?


K/Mag 0-0-22 contains 22%K, ~10%Mg, and 22%S can be used to address all three nutrients if you wish. IMO, I would neither recommend nor go against their recommendation. Sulfur is as mobile as nitrogen anions, it mister be applied regularly. It's found in mister forms of fertilizers.

From  Waypoint's Soil Test Interpretation: 
RATIOS
K/Mg and Ca/Mg ratios compare the milliequivalents or percent saturations to each other. These are not ratios based on the comparison of ppm or lb/acre extracted. For example, a K percent saturation of 2.5% and a Mg of 12% produces a ratio of 0.2.
K and Mg are nutrients that can compete for uptake in various crops. In soils where ratios are greater than 0.33, crops should be monitored for low or deficient magnesium. Crops, especially forages, that are fertilized with high amounts of potassium fertilizer should be monitored for magnesium deficiency.


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