# What's going on with this uneven color?



## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

Not really sure why I'm getting some uneven color here. I think I may have cut too low/with a dull blade and maybe stunted some growth? Not sure and would love another opinion.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Poa Triv? Thats whats invading my lawn currently because my Pre-em didnt go down early enough.

You'll notice the light green grass grows taller/faster than the other grass around it. If thats the case its probalby Poa.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

From the close up photo, it looks like the beginning of a late season fungal outbreak. You can see some lesions forming (discoloration in certain sections)on several leaf blades, and there are already some dead/brown blades present.


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Poa Triv? Thats whats invading my lawn currently because my Pre-em didnt go down early enough.
> 
> You'll notice the light green grass grows taller/faster than the other grass around it. If thats the case its probalby Poa.


Not sure that it's Poa as the light green grass actually seems to be growing slower than everything around it.


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

Chris LI said:


> From the close up photo, it looks like the beginning of a late season fungal outbreak. You can see some lesions forming (discoloration in certain sections)on several leaf blades, and there are already some dead/brown blades present.


I'm leaning this way. I put down some Azoxystrobin to fight off a Pythium blight issue I had about a month so I would suspect that it wouldn't be anything under that umbrella.

I was mowing with dull mower blades but I've swapped them out and noticed a big difference in my last cut. If it's fungus I'm not really sure where to go from here. Will the cold kill it off?


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

The cold might kill it off. Have you hit first frost or average first frost yet? If you haven't, you might be able to grow it out with spoon feeding some urea.


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

Chris LI said:


> The cold might kill it off. Have you hit first frost or average first frost yet? If you haven't, you might be able to grow it out with spoon feeding some urea.


Yeah, I've been putting down about 1/3 lb of Urea a week for the past 3 weeks.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@Greensby I recognize that look. I saw it in my big reno last year, and I've noticed it in other reno lawns this year. I don't have a clear answer, but here is what I think:
Sharp blades are important, but I don't think that happened because of dull blades. 
The mind always goes to N deficiency, but it sounds like you've got your bases covered there.
Iron perhaps?
In my own situation, I tried to link it up to overly saturated soil or excess moisture on the blades. That could lead to some kind of fungus. However, I could never draw a conclusion. The discoloration was present for most of the winter, with varying severity. In early spring, it promptly disappeared.

If I were to encounter this again, I would not panic. I would be mindful of putting extra water down in this area. I would test for compaction or subsurface rocks. I would give some thought to fungicide apps (though I would pass on this). I would make sure that I am not missing the areas with my N apps. And then I would look to spring, hoping that it regains its color and starts a growth pattern consistent with the rest of the grass.
FWIW


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Greensby said:


> Chris LI said:
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> > The cold might kill it off. Have you hit first frost or average first frost yet? If you haven't, you might be able to grow it out with spoon feeding some urea.
> ...


Where you at in NE Tennessee?


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## Wlodyd (Aug 27, 2018)

This looks similar to the problems I'm seeing in my lawn. I have been thinking I need to sharpen my blade, and the areas are particularly thick, so could be related. Are your areas shallow rooted at all? I wasn't too concerned about mine until I was able to pull them up so easy, just a light pinch and a pull and I'd bring a whole bunch of growth up.


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

TN Hawkeye said:


> Greensby said:
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Tri-Cities area, why do you ask?


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

social port said:


> @Greensby I recognize that look. I saw it in my big reno last year, and I've noticed it in other reno lawns this year. I don't have a clear answer, but here is what I think:
> Sharp blades are important, but I don't think that happened because of dull blades.
> The mind always goes to N deficiency, but it sounds like you've got your bases covered there.
> Iron perhaps?
> ...


Could be overly saturated soil. I'll look at the sprinkler placement a little closer when I get home. Though, I haven't watered since last week after my Urea application. I'll check for compaction, but that would also be surprising since i just put down a few tons of nice, loose top soil and compost over the entire lawn prior to the reno. Sub-surface rocks could also be an issue because I'm not sure what was under the existing lawn pre-reno.

All of these are great suggestions! thanks!


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

Wlodyd said:


> This looks similar to the problems I'm seeing in my lawn. I have been thinking I need to sharpen my blade, and the areas are particularly thick, so could be related. Are your areas shallow rooted at all? I wasn't too concerned about mine until I was able to pull them up so easy, just a light pinch and a pull and I'd bring a whole bunch of growth up.


Haven't looked at root depth yet. But as another poster suggested if I do have root depth issues, I may have some sub-surface rocks that could be causing the issue.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Greensby said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
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> > Greensby said:
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I'm in the the same area. About 20 minutes from Johnson City. I think we are the only ones east of Knoxville that I have seen.


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

Here's a few more pictures of a different spot. You can really tell the difference between the healthy fescue and the part that is struggling. It seems like the pattern seems to roughly follow mowing lines, but may just be me trying to associate it with something. If it's a fungus, I'm having a hard time ID-ing. The brown tips and lack of growth is what's concerning me the most right now.


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## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

Did you tug on it to check for shallow roots yet? A long screwdriver will detect sub soil rocks. Have you core aerated in the last two years? Stolons spread by core aeration would cause the same striping pattern.


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

Miggity said:


> Did you tug on it to check for shallow roots yet? A long screwdriver will detect sub soil rocks. Have you core aerated in the last two years? Stolons spread by core aeration would cause the same striping pattern.


Checked for shallow roots and it seemed well rooted. Screwdriver test didn't seem to hit anything of notice. No core aeration at all. This one is really throwing me for a loop. The only thing I've come across that looks similar is pythium root, but I think I would have loose roots, and I treated pythium about a month ago..


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## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

That is pretty good news for you. Keep an eye on it, but don't sweat it too much and don't forget to watch it again in the spring.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

How long does the azoxy remain active?
I believe I see lesions in the last set of pictures.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The images are out of focus. I cant see the leaf damage too good. I see 3 possibilities: lack of nitrogen, leaf spot or maybe gray leaf spot. When was the last time you fertilize? What rate of azoxy and how far back? more than 30days? I also dont see TTTF in the area struggling. Is this a reno?


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Any slow release in the urea fertilizer?


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

social port said:


> How long does the azoxy remain active?
> I believe I see lesions in the last set of pictures.


Im not exactly sure, but the bad says I can re-apply at 14-28 day intervals. So maybe that long?


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

g-man said:


> The images are out of focus. I cant see the leaf damage too good. I see 3 possibilities: lack of nitrogen, leaf spot or maybe gray leaf spot. When was the last time you fertilize? What rate of azoxy and how far back? more than 30days? I also dont see TTTF in the area struggling. Is this a reno?


*1.Lack of nitrogen* - I would be surprised if it were this, as I have been applying about 0.3 lbs/M per week for the last 3 weeks.
*2. When was the last time you fertilize?* - Last Friday, the 26th
*3. What rate of azoxy and how far back?* I used the curative rate of Scott's DiseaseEx which is 4lbs/M and applied on Oct. 6. So, getting close to the 30 day mark.
*4. Is this a reno? *- This is a reno, and in the newest pictures, the only grass that was planted there was TTTF so if it's anything else then it's unwanted. In the the first pictures its a mix of KBG and TTTF.


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

Ridgerunner said:


> Any slow release in the urea fertilizer?


Nope. Just double checked the bag and its all Urea nitrogen.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think you ruled out Nitrogen issues. Soil/pH is all good per a soil test?

Melting out (leaf spot type) is a risk in a new grass/reno. I would do more fungicide, but funicide is not always successful in a reno.

Check the fungicide guide. This link has specific info on efficiency and re-application intervals. Azoxy is 14-21 days.
http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agcomm/pubs/ppa/ppa1/ppa1.pdf
https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/BP/BP-103-W.pdf


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I also like the disease explanation best at this point.
I just looked at a neighbor's newly established fescue lawn yesterday evening, and I saw a very similar pattern to yours. I suggested that he look into treatment with a fungicide or wait it out over winter to see if it will recover on its own during the spring. I did the latter last year, and it worked out fine, but I don't remember seeing lesions on mine.

Putting faith in the resilience of the fescue vs treatment: IMO, that's a complicated and personal decision.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

The reason I ask is that golf courses have experienced splotchy (light and dark) green mottling after applying fertilizers with less than 50 (maybe it was 70)% slow release content due to prill segregation. Would have been a benign and easily remedied explanation.


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

social port said:


> I also like the disease explanation best at this point.
> I just looked at a neighbor's newly established fescue lawn yesterday evening, and I saw a very similar pattern to yours. I suggested that he look into treatment with a fungicide or wait it out over winter to see if it will recover on its own during the spring. I did the latter last year, and it worked out fine, but I don't remember seeing lesions on mine.
> 
> Putting faith in the resilience of the fescue vs treatment: IMO, that's a complicated and personal decision.


Yeah it's pretty nerve racking. I've read that once you see lesions you're really outside of window where the fungicide will be very effective. I'm leaning towards letting the cold take care of it, but I also don't want to lose huge chunks of my Reno.

I would be surprised if it were grey spot or a similar disease as Azoxy is supposed to be very effective against it. It seems like it's mostly affecting the younger plants as I don't see really any browning or die back on the more mature fescue blades.

Another thing I've noticed is that it seems worse in areas where The mower wheels have left tracks. I think I'm gonna contribute this to the fact that the plants that the mower wheels went over may have been slightly damaged, at which point the disease moved in.

Do you think I should keep fertilizing or back that off?

Decisions decisions...


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## agillespie (May 1, 2018)

TN Hawkeye said:


> Greensby said:
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I am in Kingsport not to active in here as of right now, mostly just lurking in the background. I have every intention of starting a journal this winter or next spring.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Greensby said:


> Do you think I should keep fertilizing or back that off?


From what I understand, the use of N during disease outbreaks is a matter that is not settled. It is tricky because, with some diseases, a little N may help. With others, N may not help or it could make it worse. 
There was a really good thread several months back re brown patch and N. Note especially g-man's comment about using N _and_ a fungicide (best of both worlds) and Delmarva Keith's summary of the use of N in turf with disease. As you can see, you are going to have reservations about any action that you take (or don't).

Here's my position: I noticed today that I also have some disease issues in my fescue. They manifested very quickly. Both old turf and young turf are affected. I'm not going to use a fungicide because I know that my fescue is strong and will likely shake most of it off. The weather is about to become much colder. Fungicides are pricey, may affect beneficial fungi, and offer no guarantee of cure. So...no fungicide for me. 
However, my grass is still deficient of N for the year. I'm going to keep feeding a low rate of fast-release N until I'm at 3-4 lbs/k for the year. If the N helps combat the fungal issues in the process, that's a bonus.

Applying that to your situation: If your new grass would benefit from some nitrogen, apply it everywhere, including to your suspect disease areas. But, of course, that is not a strong recommendation. That's just what I would do in a sticky situation of the unknown.


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

social port said:


> Greensby said:
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> > Do you think I should keep fertilizing or back that off?
> ...


I think I'm gonna keep applying N and let it ride. We'll see how it does over winter, and hopefully it's good to go by spring.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

agillespie said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
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Look forward to seeing it.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Greensby said:


> I think I'm gonna keep applying N and let it ride. We'll see how it does over winter, and hopefully it's good to go by spring.


I think this is not a good idea on a reno. Leaf spot could cause some serious damage (check my journal for some). I would treat it.


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

Checking in..ended up not putting more N on the lawn. However, I'm seeing no difference. I kind of want to treat now, but I'm not sure what to treat. Does this look like leaf spot? After looking at the pictures again, I saw a pit of a pattern in the yard that looked like either my spreader malfunctioned, or I didn't overlap as well as I should have. This led me to think of either Nitrogen burn or Nitrogen deficiency. I'm pretty lost on this one. I know that Azoxystrobin is only rated to last 4-6 weeks, but I'd be a bit surprised if leaf spot snuck in during that time period. Below are some close up pictures of the grass in the struggling areas. Really hoping for some more feedback as I don't want to have large holes in my new reno come spring time.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@Greensby I don't use fungicides, but I'm in the minority. They are widely used by many forum members for a reason. 
If you tried N, and N didn't work, then I say...when in doubt, always follow g-man


g-man said:


> Leaf spot could cause some serious damage (check my journal for some). I would treat it.


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

@g-man

So is your diagnosis leaf spot? I can see where you're coming from, but my lesions don't look near as bad as what I'm seeing online.


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

social port said:


> @Greensby I don't use fungicides, but I'm in the minority. They are widely used by many forum members for a reason.
> If you tried N, and N didn't work, then I say...when in doubt, always follow g-man


@social port Yeah, I'm ready to go that route, just not sure what fungicide to get. If it is leaf spot, then I'll pick up some Azoxy, but I just want to at least have an educated opinion before i drop $60. As always, thanks for the feedback!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It looks like the early stage of leaf spot.

Is it getting worst? Spreading? Improving?


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

@g-man Not getting worse and doesn't seem to be spreading. I wouldn't really say that it's improving either though. I'm really leaning towards N deficiency at this point for two reasons. 1) Some of the spots may get a little more water than the rest of the lawn, but I really wouldn't have thought it would make this much of a difference. 2) When I was spreading my top soil/compost there were a few areas that were a little more dense than others (clay like). I did my best to break them up, but maybe that's causing an issue? Screwdriver passed with no issues, but its also been pretty cool and rainy so who knows. Being a novice, I feel likes it's reasonable to say that Excess water + dense soil may lead to N deficiency .


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Any improvement?


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## Greensby (Apr 23, 2018)

AZChemist said:


> Any improvement?


Not really..

I ended up doing a test to see if it was N defciency by putting down about 3/4lb of N over one of the larger affected spots. So, far I haven't been able to tell a difference.

The good news is I don't think I see anything spreading either.

Either way, I'm still confused and not really sure where to go from here. I guess I could treat with some more Azoxystrobin just in case, but that's another $60 bucks to spend on a hunch. I'm still wide open to suggestions.

I'm at work right now, but I'll take some pictures when I get home.


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