# Humic treated versus non. The plugs...



## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Just posted this in my journal but figured the main warm season board might find this interesting...

So in between rain drops, I took 2 core samples from my front yard which I've been religiously applying humic acid (Humic DG, Air8 and Humic 12) since January and 2 cores from my side and back yard which I haven't touched.

Very, very interesting results...



Top 2 plugs are humic treated, bottom are native soils which are clay, sand and pebble.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

I would say its working well...


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Just did the "Finger Smoosh" test and the treated plugs have a sandy peanut butter consistency whereas untreated plugs are chunky, hard and not as uniform in color...


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

ctrav said:


> I would say its working well...


Absolutely agree. Something is definitely going on. Humic is really doing a fantastic job of breaking apart the clay.

I know it's just a quick, unscientific, beer induced test but I've been taking cores on this property for 15 years and the soil in the humic applied area has never looked better.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Humic can cause aggregation of clay particles. What that does is increase porosity of soil. That is a known effect that I take advantage of. The lawns I maintain are never core aerated. Not unless it is part of a root zone replacement program. That involves extremely aggressive aeration, collection of all soil plugs, and sanding. Short of doing that, soluble humic products are added to the liquid fertilizer program, providing the effect that people want from core aeration but never get because they are not removing cores and replacing with sand.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> Humic can cause aggregation of clay particles. What that does is increase porosity of soil. That is a known effect that I take advantage of. The lawns I maintain are never core aerated. Not unless it is part of a root zone replacement program. That involves extremely aggressive aeration, collection of all soil plugs, and sanding. Short of doing that, soluble humic products are added to the liquid fertilizer program, providing the effect that people want from core aeration but never get because they are not removing cores and replacing with sand.


No, no, I completely understand the principle of adding Humic to the soil's diet. I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. Up until now, it's just been another "show me the money" situation.

I'm more impressed with how quickly its aggregating the clay. The break test of the subsoil has proved to me that it works.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Humic is what I use to fix red dirt.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

I'm honestly just waiting for the weather to kick the roots into overdrive and dive deep. We've had a pretty mellow spring here in the Mid Atlantic and the Pat Bermuda really doesn't show her glory until we have sustained 90-100 degree days.

The plan was set and implemented, waiting on mother nature.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> Humic is what I use to fix red dirt.


I didn't have issues with red dirt up in Makakilo. The soils were pretty fertile up there. Loads of pulverized basalt made growing relatively easy. The native clay here in Va is horrible. The part of the Appomattox I live on was a pea gravel quarry back in the 40's and 50's. Pea gravel + Clay= Natures Concrete. You go down 10" in my yard and it's a dig bar and hours upon hours of sweat.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

So I gently rinsed the dirt away to see the roots, length and structures. Quite the difference...


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

The roots embedded in Humic treated soil would not release the dirt. Obviously there are micro rootlets keeping a grip on things. They were damn near full length of the 4" plug.

Untreated, not so much. 3/4 of the soil released and left maybe 2-2.5" of turf roots.

I'm going to strip all the plugs of soil and see what's left.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

You must not have been in the upper part then. Above the fire station it is all red clay


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Nope. I was upper Makakilo on Kikaha Street near Umena. The soil was fantastic. I never added a single amendment. I know a buddy of mine in Makakilo Heights had a lot of red dirt. My place was great up to 24" deep.

That said, is Boston Pizza still on the way up? So good.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Anyway, here are the roots...

Humic treated on the left, untreated on the right.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Makakilo Heights has crap for soil. Boston's North End Pizza is not there


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## walk1355 (May 31, 2018)

RDZed said:


> Anyway, here are the roots...
> 
> Humic treated on the left, untreated on the right.


These aren't the same grasses....


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Honestly, the 2 on the right appear longer than they actually laid in the soil. They pulled down nicely but they were semi root bound at the 2" mark, where the clay layer started.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

While all good, those don't look like same grass, nor do they even seem like they've been cut and cared for in the same way....

Kind of hard to compare with so many variables, but glad you are excited to see changes and for the better.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

walk1355 said:


> RDZed said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway, here are the roots...
> ...


Right. Humic treated is Bermuda, non treated is TTTF. It's about the soil composition. Root comentary is secondary.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

FATC1TY said:


> While all good, those don't look like same grass, nor do they even seem like they've been cut and cared for in the same way....
> 
> Kind of hard to compare with so many variables, but glad you are excited to see changes and for the better.


Agree 100%. They are not the same grass. The whole point of this thread was the physical soil composition and its changes. Grass type doesn't really factor into it.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> Makakilo Heights has crap for soil. Boston's North End Pizza is not there


 :lol:


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

RDZed said:


> Just posted this in my journal but figured the main warm season board might find this interesting...
> 
> So in between rain drops, I took 2 core samples from my front yard which I've been religiously applying humic acid (Humic DG, Air8 and Humic 12) since January and 2 cores from my side and back yard which I haven't touched.
> 
> ...


Now you got my curiosity going. 
I'll have to pull some samples from my yard and my neighbors yard, I know he has not had humics sprayed in his yard. This will be my second season using humic products.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

RDZed said:


> FATC1TY said:
> 
> 
> > While all good, those don't look like same grass, nor do they even seem like they've been cut and cared for in the same way....
> ...


Fair enough, adding to show and discuss roots/etc comparing humic wouldn't be part of the conversation. Comparing sand paper to toilet paper at that point.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

FATC1TY said:


> RDZed said:
> 
> 
> > FATC1TY said:
> ...


Again, I agree. I secondarily added root length to show soil compaction and its effects on root depth. Most all desirable turfs require the same depths for proper water and nutrient uptake, regardless of type and cultivar.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Do not know of any magic grasses that can grow in soil the texture of grease or pottery clay


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> Do not know of any magic grasses that can grow in soil the texture of grease or pottery clay


Exactly.

Wait, dont they have grass growing on a concrete slab at Home Depot?

:roll:


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

No. That is artificial turf 
nice try

I know sod can last a little while on concrete if it is watered. The sod growers here grow on compost and manure with plenty of fertilizer on top of that.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

As a side note, here is my broken down soil comp from the humic plug rinse...


Rocks, sand, and humic.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> No. That is artificial turf
> nice try
> 
> I know sod can last a little while on concrete if it is watered. The sod growers here grow on compost and manure with plenty of fertilizer on top of that.


Haha! Honest to God, the local HD here in VA has a slab of concrete hung vertically with a lush TTTF cube growing on it. No lie. I'll take a pic of it next time I'm there.

It's "magic lawn". :lol:


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Is the second cup from the non treated area?


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> Is the second cup from the non treated area?


No. It's a combination of the humic plugs. I rinsed the humic plugs in their own individual bucket and both non humic in theirs. I then separated them with a magshift siev. Top was .1 and bottom was open. The bottom was what was left in the sink slurry.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Ok. I do know that soil with bad texture will not wash very well out of roots. Remains as chunks of mud.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Yeah, I agree. This was definitely micro rootlets from the bermuda grabbing ahold of dirt. I actually had to pull 4-5 seeded acorns out of the root bundles. Squirrels.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Durso81 said:


> RDZed said:
> 
> 
> > Just posted this in my journal but figured the main warm season board might find this interesting...
> ...


Absolutely do it if you have a chance, and dont get arrested. Lol! I'd even fo as far as testing his soil. You'll have a control at least.


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

RDZed said:


> Durso81 said:
> 
> 
> > RDZed said:
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Lol. No worries there I take care of his yard for him, that's how I know no humic has been applied. Just basic fert and weed control.


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

So I took some quick samples from my yard and my neighbors. Both are tifway. The only differences are HOC, mine is 3/4" his is 3", I use a PGR on mine not his and I spray GCF products on mine. Some notes it has been raining for the last 3 days so both grounds were wet. I noticed I could not push my soil sample tool in as far in his yard as I could mine and it took more muscle to get down as far as I did on his verses my yard.

First pictures are a couple samples pulled in mine and as you can see roots go down 5-6 inches.







The next couple are from my neighbor's yard. As you can see I could not get as deep with the probe. The roots don't go very deep probably only 2-3" when I tried pulling the sample out the bottom half just crumbled apart as there was no roots clinging on and it was dryer then mine even though we had the same amount of rain.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

How much and how often are you putting humic down?


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

Austinite said:


> How much and how often are you putting humic down?


Last season I applied RGS monthly during the growing season at 3- 6oz rate. Sometimes I mixed a little more humic with humic 12 mixed in. Then I did air 8 a few times last year. This year I have been a little more aggressive I have done air 8 mixed with RGS. Every month since April.


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## hefegrass (Mar 20, 2019)

interesting comparison since you are using tttf and bermuda and not all one type of turf

Im sure humic does make a difference but the root structure difference between the two is mostly based on the genetics of the actual turf type.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have brought the root lengths into the conversation. I was just curious because the tttf roots were bound up by the 1.5" clay layer about an inch below the plant crown. Again, my post was about the difference in soil consistency, not the actual turf or root lengths. That was to satisfy my curiosity.


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## 985arrowhead (Jul 15, 2018)

So had you applied any of these products previously or are you saying that for the first 6 months of this year you have been applying to get these results?

Also, how often are you applying and in what concentrations? 6-9oz per/1k or more? Humic 12 and Air8.

Also are you using RGS?

I bought some unicorn pee and having been using for 2 months but have real clay soil.

Thanks


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

985arrowhead said:


> So had you applied any of these products previously or are you saying that for the first 6 months of this year you have been applying to get these results?
> 
> Also, how often are you applying and in what concentrations? 6-9oz per/1k or more? Humic 12 and Air8.
> 
> ...


To answer your first question, no. Prior to the January app of Humic DG, I had never applied any Humic product to my Bermuda, nor any grass on my land. All Humic apps have been after the first of this year.

That said, I've only applied Humic to my front yard. The untreated cores were from side and back yard, which are tttf and only get lime and basic fert annually.

I'll post my app calendar, to this point later today.

I have used RGS on the front yard. 2 times earlier this spring. Max app rate.


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## ZachUA (Dec 28, 2018)

So which of these products would be the first to purchase if you were just gonna give one a try?


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Application is to my 8k front yard.

26JAN2019- 1 ea, 40lb bag of Anderson's Humic DG (8k sf)
07MAR2019- 48 oz of Air-8
17APR2019- Second App, 48 oz of Air-8 and 48 oz of RGS
12MAY2019- 48 oz of RGS
24MAY2019- 64 oz of Humic 12 and 128 oz of Green Punch

I might hit it again with RGS sometime late next week. I really need these temps to get higher though. This 70-80's clouds and rain just isnt cutting it. I want to see the bermuda roots dive into that newly buffered soil before I proclaim any major accomplishment with Humic. Dirt looks pretty but I need the grass to make the final decision.


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

ZachUA said:


> So which of these products would be the first to purchase if you were just gonna give one a try?


Are you looking for a pre-mixed Concentrate or buy everything individual and mix your own?

I used Green county fertilizer RGS, air 8 and micro green last season and the beginning of this season.

Now that I have a better understanding of it all I actually want to try mixing my own concoction and buy individual ingredients.

If I was just going to buy one to try I would say the RGS. It has humic, fulvic and kelp in it.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

ZachUA said:


> So which of these products would be the first to purchase if you were just gonna give one a try?


I agree with what Durso81 says. It really comes down to what you want to ultimately gain at first. RGS is a good one size fits all. My compacted clay was my main target so that's why I went all in with the heavy humic products. RGS and GP were kind of secondary to everything else. I will say that that my app of GP was awesome. The Bermuda drank it up and glowed for 2 weeks.


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## Wfrobinette (Feb 3, 2019)

Can't you just buy humic powder and mix your own?

I stumbled upon 50 lbs of kelp meal and 5 pound of humic acid for less than the price of this pre bottled stuff. Also bought a bag of humic dg.


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

Wfrobinette said:


> Can't you just buy humic powder and mix your own?
> 
> I stumbled upon 50 lbs of kelp meal and 5 pound of humic acid for less than the price of this pre bottled stuff. Also bought a bag of humic dg.


Yes you can. That is what I am doing. One thing to look at with your humic is you want to make sure it has been reacted already. And they do this with potassium. So it should have analysis of 0-0-4. Also look at soluble % of the products you want to buy. And how much of it is actually humic or whatever your buying. Like I picked humic that is 90% humic that means 10% is filler other. You need to know this to figure % of ingredients in your concentration.

Also be carefull mixing in to much kelp it can burn a lawn when it's hot out. Usually you have more humic then kelp in a mix.


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## slomo (Jun 22, 2017)

Andersons Humic DG is 70% product with humic and fulvic acids. This is your bang for the buck quality product.

Anderson's also makes the Black Gypsum product. It's a 1-2 punch for tough clay soils. Contains gypsum, humic and fulvic acids. Another excellent choice.

The other, not worth mentioning products are Air 8, Humic 12 and RGS. One is 8% product and 92% water. One is 12% product and 88% water. See where this is going? Also these are very expensive to buy and ship. Good luck with your project.


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

slomo said:


> Andersons Humic DG is 70% product with humic and fulvic acids. This is your bang for the buck quality product.
> 
> Anderson's also makes the Black Gypsum product. It's a 1-2 punch for tough clay soils. Contains gypsum, humic and fulvic acids. Another excellent choice.
> 
> The other, not worth mentioning products are Air 8, Humic 12 and RGS. One is 8% product and 92% water. One is 12% product and 88% water. See where this is going? Also these are very expensive to buy and ship. Good luck with your project.


I wouldn't go as far to say there not worth mentioning they do what they are supposed to do. If you look at my post in this thread comparing soil samples pulled from mine vs my neighbors there is a difference. Yes paying shipping on a liquid is expensive but it's also expensive on a 40lb bag. That's why I'm trying out mixing my own.

Now i would be curious to know if there is a difference of using liquid concentrate vs a granular and that is why there is a difference in amount to be used per k. I know humic is a soil application but just like nitrogen foliar you apply allot less then you do granular. But this answer is above my pay grade. Lol. Maybe @Greendoc or @thegrassfactor can chime in with there knowledge of liquid vs granular humics.


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## thegrassfactor (Apr 12, 2017)

slomo said:


> Andersons Humic DG is 70% product with humic and fulvic acids. This is your bang for the buck quality product.
> 
> Anderson's also makes the Black Gypsum product. It's a 1-2 punch for tough clay soils. Contains gypsum, humic and fulvic acids. Another excellent choice.


I like humic DG. The lipids and humin substances have been removed to increase solubility so some loss on the amino profile, but good product none the less. Good bang for buck. From a pro perspective, it's difficult because you may need to apply a 1:1 N:K and doing so with a granular and double apping with a granular humic DG doesn't fit the time table or pricing model.



> The other, not worth mentioning products are Air 8, Humic 12 and RGS. One is 8% product and 92% water. One is 12% product and 88% water. See where this is going? Also these are very expensive to buy and ship. Good luck with your project.


This is purely intended to flame and is not fair. There are hundreds of liquid humics on the market beyond GCF. Apex 10, horizon Ag, Hydra hume, etc. Some people want the humin portion or feel like the raw extracted material in solution is better than an after the fact suspension. It comes down to preference, tank space, and how it fits into your program. Some run Liquids easier, others don't.

Also, gypsum does not aide in the alleviation of clay soils. Usually it's used for sodium displacement, but note and more research is showing an even lackluster performance of that. If you need a calcium and sulfur source, with an already moderately high pH, gypsum is for you. Not because you have clay. You're keen on marketing hype. I thought you'd know better.



> I wouldn't go as far to say there not worth mentioning they do what they are supposed to do. If you look at my post in this thread comparing soil samples pulled from mine vs my neighbors there is a difference. Yes paying shipping on a liquid is expensive but it's also expensive on a 40lb bag. That's why I'm trying out mixing my own.
> 
> Now i would be curious to know if there is a difference of using liquid concentrate vs a granular and that is why there is a difference in amount to be used per k. I know humic is a soil application but just like nitrogen foliar you apply allot less then you do granular. But this answer is above my pay grade. Lol. Maybe @Greendoc or @thegrassfactor can chime in with there knowledge of liquid vs granular humics.


I think I stated majority of differences above. Liquids typically contain higher lipid levels than dry solubles. Liquids have a more diverse overall mineral/biological "profile." Is it worth paying for the water? It's up to you. It's purely a matter of preference. There is no right or wrong answer.


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## ZachUA (Dec 28, 2018)

RDZed said:


> ZachUA said:
> 
> 
> > So which of these products would be the first to purchase if you were just gonna give one a try?
> ...


I guess bang for buck and ease of app would be my other criteria. I like using granular products over sprays. Would the andersons dg be the go to for that?


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

ZachUA said:


> RDZed said:
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> > ZachUA said:
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Yes the Anderson product is a granular. So if you like granular I would give it a shot.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

ZachUA said:


> RDZed said:
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> > ZachUA said:
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Absolutely.

I used it at the beginning because I wanted to hit the front yard hard and heavy with humic. That and after 3 back surgeries, granular applications of amendments has become too laborious for me. I still put down granular products like pre-m, fungicide etc, but not as frequent.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

thegrassfactor said:


> Is it worth paying for the water? It's up to you. It's purely a matter of preference. There is no right or wrong answer.


Agree. And such is life.

I like beer, not grain alcohol.


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## Muddysneakers77 (Nov 3, 2018)

RDZed said:


> Application is to my 8k front yard.
> 
> 26JAN2019- 1 ea, 40lb bag of Anderson's Humic DG (8k sf)
> 07MAR2019- 48 oz of Air-8
> ...


I am applying Andersons Humic DG to my 10K lawn, monthly. Do you have any substitute to the N-ext products? They do not ship to WA.


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

Muddysneakers77 said:


> RDZed said:
> 
> 
> > Application is to my 8k front yard.
> ...


You can look at buying the humic, fulvic and kelp soluble powder separate and mixing your own concentrate. Kelp4less sells all of it.


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## Wfrobinette (Feb 3, 2019)

Durso81 said:


> Wfrobinette said:
> 
> 
> > Can't you just buy humic powder and mix your own?
> ...


According to the bag I can top dress 10 pounds per 1ksqft of kelp meal directly on the lawn.


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## JERSEY (Sep 9, 2018)

diff grass types create different roots systems......i would say.


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

RDZed said:


> Just posted this in my journal but figured the main warm season board might find this interesting...
> 
> So in between rain drops, I took 2 core samples from my front yard which I've been religiously applying humic acid (Humic DG, Air8 and Humic 12) since January and 2 cores from my side and back yard which I haven't touched.
> 
> ...


Thank you for posting this. Very interesting!


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

DFW_Zoysia said:


> RDZed said:
> 
> 
> > Just posted this in my journal but figured the main warm season board might find this interesting...
> ...


Yeah man, no problem. Im going to do follow up cores in the same spots, later this year. Im really curious to see what a full year of Humic apps looks like.


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

RDZed said:


> Yeah man, no problem. Im going to do follow up cores in the same spots, later this year. Im really curious to see what a full year of Humic apps looks like.


I think experimenting on the lawn is half the fun.


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

Did you guys think that it's possible to put down too much humic? My soil is horribly compacted Carolina clay and I've neglected my zoysia for too many years. I'm on a mission from God to have a damn good lawn from now on!

I started using Andersons Humic DG about a month ago and plan on putting it down every 3-4 weeks from here out. I was thinking of mixing up the liquid concentrate and doing that in between.


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

Also, my zoysia is the Meyer type. I love it but because of tree growth and more shade, it's not doing great in some parts. Next spring I'm going to plug the mess out of it with Zeon and hope that it spreads. So my thinking is that with big, consistent doses of humic thrown in with some liquid aeration, the plugs will be more likely to survive and take hold if the soil is more receptive.


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## Still learnin (Sep 9, 2017)

@RDZed , have you kept up with your humic regimen and have you checked the results this year?


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Still learnin said:


> @RDZed , have you kept up with your humic regimen and have you checked the results this year?


Kept up on the Humic treatment but haven't pulled new test plugs yet. My Bermuda is struggling hard to break free of the terrible spring we've had. Here it is a week away from June and Central Virginia has had 1 day over 85 degrees. Between that, the rain, the clouds...spring thus far has been a disappointment.

I'll pull new test plugs and do another comparison when we get rolling on 90 degree days. I dont want to fuss with grass that's still on the struggle bus.

Thanks for asking. :thumbup:


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Actually, my curiosity is piqued. I might go pull a few plugs after I mow in a few min. Lol!


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Okay, I just pulled 4/4 plugs almost exactly 1 year after I did my original Humic/No Humic pulls posted earlier in this thread.

Disclaimer: This is NOT a study on grass or grass types. This is a normal dude, drinking beers and looking at soil composition with Humic and non Humic treatment in a native clay/gravel/sand yard. Root posts are merely to show what I'm seeing during the process of breaking down the plugs.

Top row is Humic treated Patriot Bermuda soil. Bottom row is untreated Humic TTTF soil. I took these plugs in almost the same places as last year...


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Not going to lie, pulling full plugs in the non- treated samples was a b**ch. I pulled probably 12 plugs to find 4 decent full plugs to show. Humic treated plugs, no problem, like butter.

Untreated plugs kept breaking apart at roughly the 3" mark.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Okay, the finger mush test was REALLY telling.

The Humic treated soil actually had the consistency of mashing a brownie or thick fudge. The untreated just crumbled below the 2.5-3.0" soil level.

What makes that wild is the Humic treated bermuda soil faces due south and gets 14 hours of straight up south sun blast whereas the non treated TTTF soil gets 6 hours of NNW direct sun. The Bermuda gets about 2" of (irrigated)water and the TTTF gets almost 5" of irrigated water a week.

The Humic treated is holding a schitload more water than the untreated area, which is amazing.


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

RDZed said:


> Okay, the finger mush test was REALLY telling.
> 
> The Humic treated soil actually had the consistency of mashing a brownie or thick fudge. The untreated just crumbled below the 2.5-3.0" soil level.
> 
> ...


Very interesting! Thanks for the info


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## Ngilbe36 (Jul 23, 2020)

Cool info! Thanks for sharing. Any year 3 plugs incoming?


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## Mark2 (Jun 3, 2021)

@RDZed year 3, year 3!


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## Highlife159 (May 19, 2021)

RDZed said:


> the TTTF gets almost 5" of irrigated water a week.


 :shock: what does your water bill look like?


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## Erickson89 (May 3, 2020)

Bring out year 3. Depending on your results I will be investing on the humic train as I've got that infamous GA red clay


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Ngilbe36 said:


> Cool info! Thanks for sharing. Any year 3 plugs incoming?


Probably not. Life is getting in the way. Deaths of my elder kin, daughter going to college catching up with post lockdown work crap...

I'm still putting down Humic, religiously but not using Green Count Fert liquids any longer. The drop from 2.5 gallon to 1 gallon bottles and the $ difference flagged me as being a cash grab so I walked from them. Good product, not worth it with better products out there for 2/3 the price.

Anyway, plugging is way down on my list at the moment. Maybe fall.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Mark2 said:


> @RDZed year 3, year 3!


Maybe in the fall.


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## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Highlife159 said:


> RDZed said:
> 
> 
> > the TTTF gets almost 5" of irrigated water a week.
> ...


I live on a river and pull directly from it. No irrigation bill.  check out my journal.


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