# Amend compacted soil prior to sod



## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

Hi all,

I had lots of triv and poa a in my yard.

I dug out the lawn and have been trying to level the soil.

There are old rotted tree roots and lots of really hard compacted areas with clay. One inch and I can hardly stick in the screwdriver.

Do I add compost and till?


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

I'm torn on tilling because many have said that I'll end up with a bumpy lawn.

Thus far, I've leveled the bumpy spots by just taking a flat shovel and scraping the top of the hard compacted soil hump off so it's more level across the surface. So now I like the grade, but certain areas just feel so hard and I nearly have to jump on the shovel to dig into the ground. Feel like spending money on sod is a waste with large spots that are compacted.

I've seen products like claymend, worth trying? I've sprayed Air8 already.

I'd rather take the time to amend and do it right prior to spending so much money on sod.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

I don't understand "dug out the lawn." You removed the soil?

Have you tried aeration? Spraying shampoo? Have you done a soil test?


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

Virginiagal said:


> I don't understand "dug out the lawn." You removed the soil?
> 
> Have you tried aeration? Spraying shampoo? Have you done a soil test?


Sorry, I know that's confusing. To dig it out I took a flat head shovel and pressed in a bit and repeated to make rectangles then stick the shovel in and sort of scraped off the lawn peice by peice. I lost some soil in the process.

I have the lawn aerated last year. I now have bare ground and haven't aerated yet. Should I?

I have not completed a soil test yet. I'll do that too.


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)




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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

There's quite a difference in levels in those pictures (2-3 inches?). Are you planning to add soil to replace soil you lost? After a soaking rain, is it still hard to dig or is it only hard to dig when the soil is dry? Do you find rocks or gravel when you dig?


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

Virginiagal said:


> There's quite a difference in levels in those pictures (2-3 inches?). Are you planning to add soil to replace soil you lost? After a soaking rain, is it still hard to dig or is it only hard to dig when the soil is dry? Do you find rocks or gravel when you dig?


Yeah I know you are right, since I was just using the shovel the removal wasn't totally even everywhere. 2" some places and 3" others which has made more work for leveling out the humps.

I am not against adding soil that I lost if you think I should. If I do, does it need to be tilled into the existing soil to avoid creating different layers? (Just have read some people say to avoid layers, although I'm not positive).

After a soaking rain there are some places that are hard to stick the screw driver in beyond an inch or two. I can really force it in if I try hard. I don't hit gravel anywhere but I do find big 5"x5" rocks randomly in some places.

What do you think is the best course of action?


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

It's hard for me to say. You need to fix whatever drainage issues your soil removal may have caused (water needs to drain away from the house). I'm reluctant to ever recommend tilling but there may be occasions to warrant it. Get an opinion locally from someone with some expertise with soil. Your local extension office may provide some guidance. It's strange for it to be so hard to push a screwdriver into soil after a soaking rain. Get those big rocks out whenever you come across them. I wonder if there are more buried rocks you haven't found that could be causing problems for you.


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

Virginiagal said:


> It's hard for me to say. You need to fix whatever drainage issues your soil removal may have caused (water needs to drain away from the house). I'm reluctant to ever recommend tilling but there may be occasions to warrant it. Get an opinion locally from someone with some expertise with soil. Your local extension office may provide some guidance. It's strange for it to be so hard to push a screwdriver into soil after a soaking rain. Get those big rocks out whenever you come across them. I wonder if there are more buried rocks you haven't found that could be causing problems for you.


I'll really work on getting the larger burried rocks out.

The yard is pretty sloped and I think the water drained down to the sidewalk because it brought a bunch of dirt with it down to the side walk and I didn't have any big puddles.

You mentioned that it's odd to not be able to stick a screw driver in even after a soaking rain. Does that mean that you are supposed to check for compaction with the screwdriver when the ground is dry?


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

Just to clarify, I can get the screwdriver in, but it's just that I'm really putting some force into it.


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

Here is what I have thus far:


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

It looks like the soil is even with the sidewalk and driveway so you probably don't need to add more soil. Looks like it drains out to the street. That's good. The screwdriver test is used to check on moisture levels, a dry soil being harder to get a screwdriver into then a moist soil. But you're having a hard time getting it into the soil after a soaking rain, so it could be obstructions or the soil is very compacted. It won't hurt anything (and it's easy and cheap to do) to spray shampoo with a hose end sprayer. Sometime that softens up impenetrable soil.


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

Virginiagal said:


> It looks like the soil is even with the sidewalk and driveway so you probably don't need to add more soil. Looks like it drains out to the street. That's good. The screwdriver test is used to check on moisture levels, a dry soil being harder to get a screwdriver into then a moist soil. But you're having a hard time getting it into the soil after a soaking rain, so it could be obstructions or the soil is very compacted. It won't hurt anything (and it's easy and cheap to do) to spray shampoo with a hose end sprayer. Sometime that softens up impenetrable soil.


I'll try it!


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Read this thread:
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=15


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

Thank you for taking so much time to help.


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

Virginiagal said:


> It looks like the soil is even with the sidewalk and driveway so you probably don't need to add more soil. Looks like it drains out to the street. That's good. The screwdriver test is used to check on moisture levels, a dry soil being harder to get a screwdriver into then a moist soil. But you're having a hard time getting it into the soil after a soaking rain, so it could be obstructions or the soil is very compacted. It won't hurt anything (and it's easy and cheap to do) to spray shampoo with a hose end sprayer. Sometime that softens up impenetrable soil.


Thanks for all the help! Yesterday I found bricks, glass, old dog wire, landscaping rocks and old mole buzzer things wth batteries in them! No wonder why grass won't grow!


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

Virginiagal said:


> Read this thread:
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=15


Someone on that thread mentioned that areas dried up sooner than the rest. I noticed that's where I found all the nonsense like rocks and bricks and roots! It was like a bullseye of where to dig in with the shovel


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

I would get a soil test done before you sod it. The soil might be compacted from equipment/foot traffic, but it could be poor soil flocculation due to nutrient imbalances. High sodium and/or a low calicium::magnesium ratio will cause the soil to disperse vs. flocculate. Tilling and aerating won't fix those problems.


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

unless you tilled new balanced soil in @adgattoni

I tilled my lawn up pre-sod and wouldn't have hesitated to do it again. sod is far less susceptible to weed pressure when compared to seeding is IMHO.

The benefits were less compaction and debris removal. I picked out a few wheelbarrow loads of rocks from my soil before I topped it with fresh rich soil... but I also did some massive grading changes to suit a new pool installation. you can see photos in my lawn journal if your interested.

The areas I didn't till and put seed down are still struggling to this day because of compaction.


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

MMoore said:


> unless you tilled new balanced soil in @adgattoni
> 
> I tilled my lawn up pre-sod and wouldn't have hesitated to do it again. sod is far less susceptible to weed pressure when compared to seeding is IMHO.
> 
> ...


You mentioned grading after tilling. In my head I feel like I'd rather till the compacted soil and have a lumpy yard vs sodding compacted soil and the sod not taking.

If I do till, any tips to minimize a lumpy bumpy lawn?


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

Also, if I want to add compost, how do I do it?

Spread a thin layer on top then lay sod?
Till it in?


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

I did mention it in that order but it was rough graded, then tilled then final graded/smoothed.

with sod you will inevitably get some lumps... around the edges of the piece of sod. get the soil work done and then over the next while you can get the lawn FLAT. the advantage of seeding is your dirt work is already done but you have to deal with weed pressure.

adding different soil to what you have isn't difficult, but its heavy work. just shovel it out on the lawn and rake it flat. if you wanted to incorporate that into the top level of the soil you can pretty easily do that with the tiller after you rough spread the new soil out. you could till/aerate and incorporate new soil into what you have. its probably worth it, but its a lot of effort.

Getting the soil loose and ready for growth is more important in my eyes than the issues with pulling up weed seeds.


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## JRS 9572 (May 28, 2018)

The times I've sodded on my own I've tilled as deep as possible, raked, and gone over with a roller. Then put our starter fertilizer, laid the sod, and watered like crazy. Had a great lawn with no dips and bumps.


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

JRS 9572 said:


> The times I've sodded on my own I've tilled as deep as possible, raked, and gone over with a roller. Then put our starter fertilizer, laid the sod, and watered like crazy. Had a great lawn with no dips and bumps.


Super helpful guys thank you!


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

It seems like till plus roller with best of both worlds assuming the roller isn't causing compaction correct?

Are you rolling the dirt with it dry or slightly wet?


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

would do it dry, being wet it would stick to the roller

the roller isn't very heavy.... maybe 200lbs. your body weight will leave footprints when rolling because pressure. your just trying to get it more smooth after tilling/raking so the sod touches the soil for root development.


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## JRS 9572 (May 28, 2018)

I think @MMoore answers a lot of this @Bkell101

But most of the rollers have a bar very close to the roller surface. So if it's damp and picks up soil, then the bar will knock it off the surface of the roller/back to the ground.

My best description is that it firms and smooths the surface. It doesn't compact it.


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