# Get rid of Poa Trivialis



## Buxton81 (Sep 8, 2019)

I thought it was tall fescue, but it only has 1 line in the middle of the blade. (I also have poa annua but I'll put pre emergent down late fall.) I heard only way to get rid of poa triv is in the spring with glyphosate, summer wouldn't kill it. If this is true, is it too late now? I have kbg, southern Indiana near Cincinnati.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Can you hand pull it? Pete from GCI Turf posted a video yesterday where he was hand pulling from TTTF


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Stuofsci02 hand pulling doesn't work. The roots are still there and will come back. Actually Pete used a product last year that does a quick burn of the leaves, but it does not kill the roots. And guess what happen, it returned.

Glyphosate now in spring or digging 2+ inches deep is more effective (not 100% ).


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## Buxton81 (Sep 8, 2019)

g-man said:


> @Stuofsci02 hand pulling doesn't work. The roots are still there and will come back. Actually Pete used a product last year that does a quick burn of the leaves, but it does not kill the roots. And guess what happen, it returned.
> 
> Glyphosate now in spring or digging 2+ inches deep is more effective (not 100% ).


G-man, you actually got me thinking, when you asked if I was sure if it was tall fescue last week. Thanks for the advice!


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## Buxton81 (Sep 8, 2019)

Stuofsci02 said:


> Can you hand pull it? Pete from GCI Turf posted a video yesterday where he was hand pulling from TTTF


It would be extremely hard, as the clumps are of decent size & it's in a few spots.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

g-man said:


> @Stuofsci02 hand pulling doesn't work. The roots are still there and will come back. Actually Pete used a product last year that does a quick burn of the leaves, but it does not kill the roots. And guess what happen, it returned.
> 
> Glyphosate now in spring or digging 2+ inches deep is more effective (not 100% ).


Yes, it would seem almost nothing will take this stuff out....


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

If you nuke it now in indiana, make sure you're ready to live with that decision for several months. The research on spring killing was mainly done by Cole Thompson if you want to google it. It's far from a sure thing that a spring kill won't come back in a year or two. Having tried a bunch of things over the years, I would say start killing it in August and then reseed. Contrary to popular belief, it is not necessarily dormant at that time of year. Expect it to come back in years 2 and 3, etc but should be at a much reduced rate and more easily managed. Good luck!


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## troksd (Jul 27, 2018)

I feel your. I used glyphosate and overseeded during the spring. Used preM during the fall. After two seasons, I see no sign of Poa T.


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## Buxton81 (Sep 8, 2019)

tgreen said:


> If you nuke it now in indiana, make sure you're ready to live with that decision for several months. The research on spring killing was mainly done by Cole Thompson if you want to google it. It's far from a sure thing that a spring kill won't come back in a year or two. Having tried a bunch of things over the years, I would say start killing it in August and then reseed. Contrary to popular belief, it is not necessarily dormant at that time of year. Expect it to come back in years 2 and 3, etc but should be at a much reduced rate and more easily managed. Good luck!


@tgreen I'll definitely Google it!


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Not to hijack the thread, but I have a related question that might be helpful to Buxton81.

@tgreen
I eventually will need to nuke a section of my backyard after coming to the Poa T realization (due to your great video, BTW). I wasn't hoping to do it this year, but I have some PRG on hand that I could drop this spring, even though kbg is my desired turf. I figured that I could more easily nuke the PRG for a fall reno this year, next year, whenever. Any thoughts?


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

tgreen said:


> If you nuke it now in indiana, make sure you're ready to live with that decision for several months. The research on spring killing was mainly done by Cole Thompson if you want to google it. It's far from a sure thing that a spring kill won't come back in a year or two. Having tried a bunch of things over the years, I would say start killing it in August and then reseed. Contrary to popular belief, it is not necessarily dormant at that time of year. Expect it to come back in years 2 and 3, etc but should be at a much reduced rate and more easily managed. Good luck!


You sure? I just nuked half of my yard. Was about to sod...when is considered best time to nuke triv?


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but the only scientific study on timing of roundup on poa triv/ rough blue grass is the work by Cole Thompson at K-State. For anyone interested, he published a bunch of research on the topic of RBG control, including a dissertation. I've relied on his work for about 99% of what I know on this topic.

Below is a link to an extract of the study on roundup timing. Look at Table 1 on page 2 for everything you need to know. This is how I read that table:

1) In 2011 at Manhattan, it didn't matter when you killed it. To me, the difference between 1% and 6% is meaningless as a practical matter.
2) In 2012 at Meade, control wasn't all that great no matter the timing. Again, my view is that 31% cover after spring kill is way too much poa triv to justify a dead lawn all spring and summer.

I think everyone agrees the data is all over the place when comparing the 2011 and 2012 Manhattan results and suggests some other variable(s) are in play. Cole noted that 2011 Manhattan temps were unusually hot that summer and could have been a significant variable.

If you want to kill your lawn in Spring then you should definitely do it but know this is the data you are basing your decision on. Good luck!

https://turf.unl.edu/research/weeds/SeasonalTimingGlyphosateApplicationInfluencesControlPoatrivialis.pdf


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@tgreen Cole Thompson is at UNL now. He wrote this turf info in 2017.



> Nonselective control
> 1. Rough bluegrass is most consistently controlled with glyphosate in spring. In research, I've consistently seen 69 to 99% control with spring applications. In contrast, midsummer applications provided 14 to 91% control, and late-summer applications were marginally more effective (42 to 94% control).


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

This Virginia magazine has a really good table of products in TTTF.

https://issuu.com/leadingedgepubs/docs/va-turfgrass-2017-jan-feb/22


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> This Virginia magazine has a really good table of products in TTTF.
> 
> https://issuu.com/leadingedgepubs/docs/va-turfgrass-2017-jan-feb/22


Yes, Cole was actually the guy that sent me the link to this article a couple years ago. It claims that Xonerate + Tenacity is highly effective and Velocity is totally ineffective. He sort of told me "eh, that's the problem is that as soon as you think you've proved something someone else gets different results". I pressed him on this b/c I think the reason Velocity did poorly is they applied it at air temps below 70. He didn't get back to me on that. Also, I ran my own experiment with Xonerate and Tenacity and it didn't work. I think masshole had success but also said he contacted the author who had since backtracked on his findings.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> @tgreen Cole Thompson is at UNL now. He wrote this turf info in 2017.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agree but I think that quote is just restating the table I referenced. Cole has since moved on to the USGA greens team.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think there are ton of variables. It is clear when the range of control goes from 14% to 91%. Ive hit some with round up multiple times. I was sure it was dead by fall and it was back this spring. I've took a chunk out and replaced it with sod from my backyard.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

tgreen said:


> Agree but I think that quote is just restating the table I referenced. Cole has since moved on to the USGA greens team.


I noticed they used a non-ionic surfactant with their Velocity. My instructions said explicitly not to add anything; just mix it with water only. Have you ever come across any legit info on this topic?

I'm in the middle of a Velocity treatment now, and hoping I finally got the timing and dosages right, as the stuff is very finicky as you know. Second dose went down in some areas this week, on a 21 day interval. 4oz/A first app; 3.5oz/A second app. It will definitely need a third one in 3-4 more weeks. It has taken several years to understand how to use this herbicide properly; thankfully I still had some left for this year.

Maybe Xonerate will eventually become more cost effective one day (and a bit more mainstream; right now it seems like mostly sod growers are using it, though it is labeled for residential lawns now and a few here, like yourself I believe if I recall correctly, have tried it). If fert guys and more advanced DIYers like us eventually could afford to use it, it might be a game changer. Maybe. Who knows. I don't like to get my hopes up that there is something the will definitely work near 100%.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Just spray round up, and be done with it, it might not kill it all but it should get most of it and you can spot spray round up next year if necessary.

If you want to see what happens when your relatively lax with Triv check out my post from last year, even being relatively aggressive with Tenacity it never really helped. It took off like crazy over fall/winter and i had to renovate this spring.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13687


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## critterdude311 (Apr 21, 2018)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Just spray round up, and be done with it, it might not kill it all but it should get most of it and you can spot spray round up next year if necessary.
> 
> If you want to see what happens when your relatively lax with Triv check out my post from last year, even being relatively aggressive with Tenacity it never really helped. It took off like crazy over fall/winter and i had to renovate this spring.
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13687


My opinion on this has changed over the past few years based on my personal experience fighting it. I think by the time an obvious problem with poa triv is detected it is beyond the control stage with glyphosate. The reason being is a certain amount of stolons and seed remain viable in the soil post nuke...

My personal feelings are anything short of a sod cut and replace, it will be back in most cases, so if you are determined to rid yourself of the plague the only option is to sod cut.

If you are willing to play whack-a-mole with herbicides for many years it could work but good luck trying to keep the wife on board with continuous nuke spots ;-)


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Green said:


> tgreen said:
> 
> 
> > Agree but I think that quote is just restating the table I referenced. Cole has since moved on to the USGA greens team.
> ...


Yes, I think you are referring to that Virginia study.  I mentioned that to Cole as being a possible reason it didn't work but he didn't respond. I do NOT use a NIS with velocity since the label does not say to use it. I've seen no other references to NIS with velocity so I don't think it should be used. I think the reason that study found zero control with velocity is that it was used when temps were too low. My guess is the NIS is not necessary but also doesn't hurt anything.



> I'm in the middle of a Velocity treatment now, and hoping I finally got the timing and dosages right, as the stuff is very finicky as you know. Second dose went down in some areas this week, on a 21 day interval. 4oz/A first app; 3.5oz/A second app. It will definitely need a third one in 3-4 more weeks. It has taken several years to understand how to use this herbicide properly; thankfully I still had some left for this year.


I know. I used 6 oz/a rate at a 14 day interval a couple years ago and it smoked a lot of my fescue. I documented that one on my youtube vid. I'm now using 2 oz/a rate. It seemed to be effective last year but I didn't have that much. This year going to try to do 3, like you, on a 21 day interval. Let me know how your lawn holds up at the 4 and 3.5. Am curious.



> Maybe Xonerate will eventually become more cost effective one day (and a bit more mainstream; right now it seems like mostly sod growers are using it, though it is labeled for residential lawns now and a few here, like yourself I believe if I recall correctly, have tried it).


I don't know if that product is effective on triv. I replicated that virginia study and combined xonerate + tenacity and it didn't work. I also documented that one on a youtube vid if you're interested. On the other hand, I remember @MassHole said he had success with it but I don't recall him posting follow up's although I may have missed a thread. I think he also said he go ahold of the study's author who supposedly back-tracked on the study and said the triv actually did come back. Could have been that study ended it's work after like 50 days or something. Hardly enough time to really evaluate regrowth.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

tgreen said:


> I do NOT use a NIS with velocity since the label does not say to use it. I've seen no other references to NIS with velocity so I don't think it should be used.


And it explicitly states not to add anything. Makes me wonder if water quality impacts the herbicide much. I came across a reference once to adding Ammonium Sulfate, but I won't dare do it.



> Let me know how your lawn holds up at the 4 and 3.5. Am curious.


So far, so good. As you know, the herbicide acts like a PGR (but not a very good one; the lawn looks kind of drought stressed in color, overall, or like N deficiency or whatever...a bit brownish. Other than that, it's holding up. Unfortunately, I had to water the area this week for the first time this year. That watering will likely help the Triv hang on better, too. The other thing I am doing, is trying my hardest to keep that at 3.25 inches HOC. If I go up to 3.75, the Triv will be shaded out, and the herbicide won't work as well. I know that because of last year. One of my apps was during 95+ degree heat. I risked it the day before or something. I felt like the high cut would keep it from stressing too much even with the herbicide. I was right. But the high cut also allowed the Triv to thrive.



> I don't know if that product is effective on triv. I replicated that virginia study and combined xonerate + tenacity and it didn't work. I also documented that one on a youtube vid if you're interested. On the other hand, I remember @masshole said he had success with it but I don't recall him posting follow up's although I may have missed a thread. I think he also said he go ahold of the study's author who supposedly back-tracked on the study and said the triv actually did come back. Could have been that study ended it's work after like 50 days or something. Hardly enough time to really evaluate regrowth.


Everything says it is; product label, research, etc. But it's not an option for me right now. I'll bet it has a learning curve, too.

Speaking of which: the first year I tried Velocity, I did lots of low rate apps, and killed the good grass in many places, but did not eradicate the Triv. That is what makes me think that its use requires a lot of finesse with temps, timing, rates, and mowing height. I think the 3 inch HOC may be the sweet spot for control versus resiliency, but we'll see. Last year I did 3 apps at the 3oz/Acre rate based on your experience. But I started them later (around mid June) and spaced them 30 days or so apart. I don't think it was anywhere near as effective as it could have been. I did not fry the good grass; it recovered fully by the beginning of Fall. But the Triv came back this year. The Velocity is something I'm using to try to get rid of it in areas where it's a component of the lawn mixture and can't be separated (not defined areas). Any defined areas got glyphosate last Spring and again this Spring for any new plants or ones I missed last year. I think that killed it totally in those areas. Last year, there was a ton of it. This year, less, but still too much. So I feel the selectives have their role.

The real issue, is that seed brings in more of it, each time you seed. I really hope the growers eventually get that under control.


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## critterdude311 (Apr 21, 2018)

Green said:


> tgreen said:
> 
> 
> > I do NOT use a NIS with velocity since the label does not say to use it. I've seen no other references to NIS with velocity so I don't think it should be used.
> ...


I couldn't agree more with that last paragraph. I'm convinced a large amount of it coming in over the past few years is during the overseed process. It leaves the folks with TTTF and PRG in a real pickle. Risk contamination vs having bare spots. It's a tough call. Knowing what I know now, I'm a much bigger fan of sodding / plugging from sod than I was a few years ago... Word to the wise... if you already have KBG push it with nitrogen, I wouldnt overseed it due to contamination risk.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

critterdude311 said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> > tgreen said:
> ...


Good info. Fortunately, the triv areas are manageable for me at the moment and I'm basically physically removing a couple spots that are around 16 inches in diameter, spraying the perimeter and then spraying some other random spots that are mixed-in with the good grass.

Couple other thoughts for you guys: 1) please make sure you really believe xonerate will work b/c it's expensive as you know. I really don't think it works but am open to trying it again if there's some clear evidence. 2) I do think there is contaminated seed but I have not reseeded the front of my yard in 2 years and the triv still comes back. I can't explain it and stopped trying to figure it out.


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## MassHole (Jun 27, 2018)

I did three treatments this year of my poa triv:

2 spot sprays of a super mix, using all the effective items in the VT study:
mix of one gallon of water with:
Tenacity (5.4 mL) - per Virginia Tech Feb17 study shows 99% effective
PGR (0.4 oz) - growth regulator stops the poa triv from growing, short blades means no sun, plant dies
Xonerate (3.8 mL) - per Virginia Tech Feb17 study shows 99% effective
Triclopyr (0.75 oz) - minimize bleaching of Tenacity
Ethofumesate (0.5 oz) - Prograss generic, per Virginia Tech Feb17 study shows 99% effective
NIS (1.5 oz) - breaks up water droplets for foliar absorption
Ammonium sulfate (1 tbl) - fast N that the plant absorbs quickly, encouraging it to absorb the other herbicides faster

This did kill the triv, but there was heavy loss of my Midnight KBG. It's slowly growing back, but I will need to Nitrogen blitz this fall.

The second treatment was spot spray of Tenacity and Xonerate per the VT study, both with and without Triclopyr. Both spot killed the triv, and the KBG grew back.

If I were to do it again, I'd spot spray Round Up in the spring, heavily feed and frequently mow my Midnight, and let it fill it. I've spent way too much fighting triv with Xonerate and other chemicals.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

MassHole said:


> If I were to do it again, I'd spot spray Round Up in the spring, heavily feed and frequently mow my Midnight, and let it fill it. I've spent way too much fighting triv with Xonerate and other chemicals.


I know the feeling. Thanks for the update.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Here's what I mean. Turf is nearly perfect but had to remove a huge chunk of poa T that came out of no where. Have not reseeded this area in 2 years. Makes no sense.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I killed POA t last year with round up. Multiple applications. One spot came back. This year I just cut it out and placed sod from another part of the lawn. We will see next year if it comes back.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

critterdude311 said:


> Knowing what I know now, I'm a much bigger fan of sodding / plugging from sod than I was a few years ago... Word to the wise... if you already have KBG push it with nitrogen, I wouldnt overseed it due to contamination risk.


I don't find that to be a good solution, either.

Problem with plugs, is you unknowingly transfer around the Poa T. I've done that. Now it's everywhere I plugged a few years ago.

Push with N in the Fall or Spring...and guess what grows like crazy...the Poa T.

Supposedly, it's most common in...guess...KBG seed.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

g-man said:


> I killed POA t last year with round up. Multiple applications. One spot came back. This year I just cut it out and placed sod from another part of the lawn. We will see next year if it comes back.


You don't have much. Those of with infestations have to use every trick. Eventually, there will be decent selective herbicides that work and are semi affordable available to us. But probably not anytime soon.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

tgreen said:


> Here's what I mean. Turf is nearly perfect but had to remove a huge chunk of poa T that came out of no where. Have not reseeded this area in 2 years. Makes no sense.


Yeah, I don't know. I guess it's either already there as a seedling all that time, or the seeds stay viable.

My Triv has produced seed like crazy this year. I really hope all those seeds in the areas I killed aren't viable in the future.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

MassHole said:


> I did three treatments this year of my poa triv:
> 
> 2 spot sprays of a super mix, using all the effective items in the VT study:
> mix of one gallon of water with:
> ...


Wow, what a mix.

That's a win. I'd do it for the areas that are blended. I'd totally do it. If I had Xonerate, I think I'd go in with it alone and try that. I am doing just that...using other chemicals, as you know. 

Really hoping the both the Velocity and Certainty do something this year. The way I used them last year, they did not do anything, basically. Nothing. I learned from it, and am hoping it works this year doing it in a better way (timing, rates, etc.)


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Green said:


> if I had Xonerate, I think I'd go in with it alone and try that.


I get it and you should scratch that itch. I want to send you some of the chemical and I want it to work for you. How do I send it? I don't love getting PM's but I'll do it for you if you want. Need to figure out what to put it in but I'll do it.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

tgreen said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> > if I had Xonerate, I think I'd go in with it alone and try that.
> ...


Oh my gosh, thank you. I think I can accept. I like how everyone finds new ways to help each other.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Green You are the absolute expert on Triv in this forum. Probably steering away from the OP subject, I have a simple question. I have a neighbor, that for years is trying to grow grass in his back yard. It is covered with century old maple trees and finally he is happy to have green. Under exam today, I discovered it is triv. 100%. His back and front are concrete separated by about 20 feet. Back is lower by 4 feet. What are the chances for triv to 'jump' in the front. Front is almost all day sun and well established NoMix, dense and healthy cut at 1.25''


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Babameca said:


> @Green You are the absolute expert on Triv in this forum. Probably steering away from the OP subject, I have a simple question. I have a neighbor, that for years is trying to grow grass in his back yard. It is covered with century old maple trees and finally he is happy to have green. Under exam today, I discovered it is triv. 100%. His back and front are concrete separated by about 20 feet. Back is lower by 4 feet. What are the chances for triv to 'jump' in the front. Front is almost all day sun and well established NoMix, dense and healthy cut at 1.25''


No way. @tgreen is much more of a forum go-to guy for Triv issues. That said, I do have a hopefully helpful post in the works with some photos. I don't think anyone could be a Triv expert today. Well, maybe some professor somewhere who has studied it for 45 years or something.

But regarding the question, it sounds like you're asking if it can move from the back to the front. I would say it could, but if it hasn't so far, it might not. How could it? It could either keep spreading, little by little over the years if the lawns are connected. Or, if mature, viable seed or stolons are somehow carried (wind, birds, mowers, etc.). Of course, if plugs are transferred, it will happen for sure. It can form patches in full sun lawns during Fall and Spring, as we know all too well.

That said, Triv works in shade. Probably not a bad lawn to have if he's happy with it and holds up.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Green Yes that was the point. He is very happy something/anything covers the soil in this area. I just made him aware of eventual risks.


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## critterdude311 (Apr 21, 2018)

Green said:


> critterdude311 said:
> 
> 
> > Knowing what I know now, I'm a much bigger fan of sodding / plugging from sod than I was a few years ago... Word to the wise... if you already have KBG push it with nitrogen, I wouldnt overseed it due to contamination risk.
> ...


Yeah, totally agree, my level of insanity is even further though... I should've specified this in my original reply but when I said 'sod / plug from sod', I meant to say get new clean sod from a local sod farm and create plugs from that new clean sod.

It's funny you mention your experience with nitrogen in the Spring and Fall - I have had the same exact response. If you feed the lawn at all in the early spring or fall, the triv goes completely insane. What I found worked best for me this year (technically it started last fall) was to give the yard no nitrogen - 0 nitrogen - in the fall and - 0 nitrogen - early to mid spring. My rationale on it was I did not want to give any of the existing triv any type of advantage. In my opinion, the fall and spring feedings accent the huge disparity between the desirable grasses and the triv.

All I can tell you is that following that 0 nitrogen approach, this spring, was by far the best spring in many years for me (since the whole triv issue started) in the sense that things blended much, much better than the past few years. I sacrificed some color pop, for a better overall blend, and that's a trade-off I'm willing to make every year if it keeps things in check. I didn't fertilize this year (the triv infested sections) until memorial day, and honestly, the yard is looking really great right now as the triv has pulled back and now the desirable grasses are fed going in to Summer. The untrained eye would not have detected a problem this year (although I know you guys on the forum here would still notice it  )

For what it is worth, it also seemed to keep the crazy stalk production under control / manageable this year. I attribute that to the triv not getting fed. I kept the yard at about 2" during the early / mid spring, and I plan to follow this program moving forward... at least until we ever get an effective selective :roll:

So to recap my 'minimize / blend triv program':
- 0 nitrogen in fall. cut at 2 - 2.5" on a cool season mix
- 0 nitrogen in early to mid spring. cut at 2 - 2.5" on a cool season mix
- first fertilizer app right around memorial day as triv starts 'fading'
- possibly a slow release / milo type fert around July 4. cut around 3" on a cool season mix
- 0 nitrogen the rest of the year. bring cut back down to 2.5" range in fall
- use supplemental iron for color pop if needed.
- bag clippings

I haven't added PGR to this plan, but it seems logical that would help with further blending / masking. I might try it next year.

This area was overrun with triv last year. The blend is much, much better this year and the untrained eye would probably not detect the triv in here:


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@critterdude311, yeah, good strategy if you have the time/money/wherewithal to fight it using good sod, and it matches the lawn.

My strategy is similar. No early Spring N in general. But I have to do Fall N. My other thing I've been trying, is keeping the mowing height at around 3 inches in near full sun Triv areas through June if I can. I've also been stressing the heck out of the lawn in some of those areas by withholding water (in conjunction with selective herbicides that I'm hoping will finally work now that I switched to higher rates and a lower HOC). The grass is a nice brownish green in some of those areas now, I guess a combination of semi dormancy and browning Triv. Same happened last year, but the Triv, or some of it, came back this Spring. When I do water the most drought stressed areas, I'm trying to do at least one inch so I can let it be for a while again. Triv is still active in June. It will stay alive all Summer in partial shade if mowed high.

Right now I'm watering the upper side. I put down a half inch there yesterday and then it got too late, and am going to try to get down another 0.75 inch at least today in the same area. Then withhold water again.

I think I'm off to experiment with the Velocity now.


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## Matthew_73 (Jul 9, 2019)

I glysphate mine. and i threw seed down and it has been mowed once. hopefully this will retard it next year.


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## Belgianbillie (Apr 3, 2018)

Green said:


> tgreen said:
> 
> 
> > Agree but I think that quote is just restating the table I referenced. Cole has since moved on to the USGA greens team.
> ...


Where have you found velocity?


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Belgianbillie said:


> Where have you found velocity?


I've seen it on ebay for less than I paid retail. It's not a sure thing this will selectively kill triv though. I've had success with it but not always 100%.

This year I'm trying Xonerate at 6 oz/A rate spot spraying. Planning on two apps at around 21 days if not a little sooner depending on conditions. Then may go velocity at around 3 oz/A for two apps. Xonerate is labeled at between 55 and 85F and Velocity is like 70F and 85F. https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/agrian-cg-fs1-production/pdfs/Velocityr_SG_Herbicide_Supplemental_Label1.pdf

Chances of permanent triv eradication with this strategy is near zero. Hoping for good control. I'll report back if successful.


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

Spoiler; This problem always gets resolved with glyphosate in the end. 🤣


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

I just bit the bullet and spot sprayed Roundup on my triv explosion. It is mostly singular clumps, so it was easy to target. It took 4 gallons to hit every spot over 28k sqft. I feel confident that I can manage the triv with glypho. Marker dye really helped to make sure I hit everything. WIth repeated apps until fall, those spots should be great seedbeds by then. If I can get a 50% reduction by this time next year, I will consider it a success and repeat the process.


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## Belgianbillie (Apr 3, 2018)

Don't forget, you can spray some lawnpaint on it to keep it green if you dont like staring at dead grass.


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Belgianbillie said:


> Don't forget, you can spray some lawnpaint on it to keep it green if you dont like staring at dead grass.


I am digging and spot sodding. Hope it works.


Background yellow spots are for tonight.


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

Your guys' Triv patches are tiny! :twisted:

Here's what my Triv Farm™ looks like right now. Nothing like rolling a dice on a reno in the SE in April.










The neighborhood is very perplexed why I would kill green grass. :bandit:


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## VALawnNoob (Jun 9, 2020)

I'm curious if anyone has tried the Anuew PGR method? If it can slowly control Triv over time, wouldn't this be the best option since it has a lot of other benefits?


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

VALawnNoob said:


> I'm curious if anyone has tried the Anuew PGR method? If it can slowly control Triv over time, wouldn't this be the best option since it has a lot of other benefits?


I used Anuew as my PGR last year, in conjunction with some spring Acclaim Extra apps. I did see early season control of the poa t. It did not like one or the other, or the combination of the two, at all. If i had to guess, I would credit it to the Acclaim. I did a little bit to document here.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=258229#p258229

However, it definitely didn't kill it because its back in force this year. I have given up trying to play the selective game, so it's getting an integrated attack of the glove of death and the shovel.


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## cleohioturf (Jul 20, 2020)

here you go, how about this after a complete fall renovation with KBG.

I am trying the tenacity approach, dont have much hope but figured its worth a shot this spring. I cant pull this, ill likely end up spraying glypho and seeding in August.


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## cityofoaks (Sep 8, 2020)

cleohioturf said:


> here you go, how about this after a complete fall renovation with KBG.
> 
> I am trying the tenacity approach, dont have much hope but figured its worth a shot this spring. I cant pull this, ill likely end up spraying glypho and seeding in August.


This is exactly what mine looks like after seeding with some of that SPF 30 KBG last fall - seed tag was clean 0 weeds 0 other crop. I have seen some seed contamination here and there in the past but what is popping up recently I would never thought possible a few years ago. I take care of few yards on the side and if I would have used that seed on anyone else's yard I would have a lot of explaining to do and owe them a reno this fall.

Not sure what is going on but the seed producers need to figure this out.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@cleohioturf tenacity will do nothing to poa trivialis. Poa t needs gly when it is not dormant (eg. summer).


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## cleohioturf (Jul 20, 2020)

cityofoaks said:


> cleohioturf said:
> 
> 
> > here you go, how about this after a complete fall renovation with KBG.
> ...


mine was blue label from united seeds, its the sure shot R, which is 90% KBG/10% rye. at first I thought this was caused by using a slit seeder to seed and bringing seed up, and may very well be the case. But I also cannot shake the thought in my head that I just had contaminated seed, there is just way too much of it in such large sections. The backyard even has it, not nearly as bad, still more than I would have ever thought.


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## cleohioturf (Jul 20, 2020)

g-man said:


> @cleohioturf tenacity will do nothing to poa trivialis. Poa t needs gly when it is not dormant (eg. summer).


@g-man agreed, im trying to target some of the poa a, there is some of that in combination to the poa t

edit: sorry, thought this topic was both poa a and poa t, my bad


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## Kissfromnick (Mar 25, 2019)

gm560 said:


> Belgianbillie said:
> 
> 
> > Don't forget, you can spray some lawnpaint on it to keep it green if you dont like staring at dead grass.
> ...


Make sure you remove more than 12" around poa T patch. I remove some areas with poa t last year about 12" aroun patch and it show up this season right on border of sod in some areas.


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Kissfromnick said:


> gm560 said:
> 
> 
> > Belgianbillie said:
> ...


Its a real SOB.


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## Nikegolf1224 (Apr 21, 2021)

Someone mentioned on one of the earlier pages that they sprayed Round Up and then hit their turf with a pre emergent in the fall and they haven't seen it since. Can anyone comment on what pre emergent that might inhibit the start of triv


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## Nikegolf1224 (Apr 21, 2021)

troksd said:


> I feel your. I used glyphosate and overseeded during the spring. Used preM during the fall. After two seasons, I see no sign of Poa T.


Whar pre emergent did you use in the fall?


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## Nikegolf1224 (Apr 21, 2021)

How many apps of round up should I use before I reseed? I've done two apps and I still see some green at the crowns but it could be good grass to that is still green.


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## Jay20nj (Jul 25, 2018)

My neighbor is infested with poa t. Has no desire to kill it off. Waiting for the infiltration… is there a defense strategy other than gly immediate invaders?


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## VALawnNoob (Jun 9, 2020)

Jay20nj said:


> My neighbor is infested with poa t. Has no desire to kill it off. Waiting for the infiltration… is there a defense strategy other than gly immediate invaders?


Do you have a picture of your line of defense?


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

Jay20nj said:


> My neighbor is infested with poa t. Has no desire to kill it off. Waiting for the infiltration… is there a defense strategy other than gly immediate invaders?


Fire.


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## Nikegolf1224 (Apr 21, 2021)

Anybody with some advice on how many round apps I need to spray. Hit it with two so far and have a bunch of patches I need to scratch and throw down some seed soon.


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

Nikegolf1224 said:


> Someone mentioned on one of the earlier pages that they sprayed Round Up and then hit their turf with a pre emergent in the fall and they haven't seen it since. Can anyone comment on what pre emergent that might inhibit the start of triv


Doesn't make sense to me unless pre-em can prevent stolons from coming above ground. I've not seen Triv seed.


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## Powhatan (Dec 15, 2017)

stevehollx said:


> Doesn't make sense to me unless pre-em can prevent stolons from coming above ground. I've not seen Triv seed.


Here's a poa triv with seed head. I've pulled others as well.


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

Powhatan said:


> stevehollx said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't make sense to me unless pre-em can prevent stolons from coming above ground. I've not seen Triv seed.
> ...


How is your trivialis getting that tall in the lawn? Is that from your beds?


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## Powhatan (Dec 15, 2017)

Lawn Noob said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> > stevehollx said:
> ...


The bigger ones are in the lawn border next to the natural area. Here's another larger one with seed heads growing in the stalks.


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## devanb (Apr 26, 2020)

Last year I used roundup and destroyed the front of my lawn trying to beat this weed. Didn't really work. I'm defeated. So I want to know how to live this this in a Tier 1 lawn and manage with cultural practices?

Specifically, since pulling doesn't work, has anyone tried drought stressing a TTTF lawn in the summer, and then pulling / raking up poa triv, stolons and all? I mention water restriction since the root structure should be less that the desirable grasses?

I know I'm probably delusional but I'm not going to glyphosate 1/3 of my lawn again.


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