# which Bermuda seed?



## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

I was looking at either Arden 15 (recommended by professor of turf at University of Florida), or the also new Maya, which Outside Pride has. Maya is half the price, and has good results from what I can tell? And then Hancock suggested Royal Bengal, because of it's heat/humidity tolerance and because it grows lower, so less likely to get that scalped/brown look at higher mowing heights (I'll be cutting with a rotary).

So, for 3-4K square feet (depending on if I add in a bit of the backyard), in central Florida (orlando area), with kids playing on it and maybe dogs (if I do the back), being maintained by a newbie, which would you go with?


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## smurg (May 30, 2018)

I'd sod TifTuf for $1800. A little more upfront, but you may end up saving money in the long-term through water usage and products to beautify it depending on how far down the rabbit hole you go.

If you're set on seeding, go with the Arden 15. You'd be spending $200 for 10 lbs most likely then? Not sure if saving a little over $100 on the Maya is worth it, but depends on the budget.


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

I would look at sod varieties even if you can't afford to sod the whole thing you can checker board the pieces and it will fill in. And if tiftuf is available to you that's what I would go with also.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Yeah, sod is more than a little more...Seed will be $150 or less, sod would be bout 2 grand. And I haven't seen tiff-tuff in the area, I did look. St. Augustine and Zoysia are what sell here...only bermuda I've seen for sale is Celebration and Tiffway 419.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

The UF guy said go with the Arden 15 as well, but I do wonder if Hancock is right and the lower growth of the Bengal would make more sense given I'm going to be using a Rotary mower? Arden is more expensive, just a bit, so they were talking me into the lower priced product, which makes me think they must have a good reason?


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## smurg (May 30, 2018)

ktgrok said:


> Yeah, sod is more than a little more...Seed will be $150 or less, sod would be bout 2 grand. And I haven't seen tiff-tuff in the area, I did look. St. Augustine and Zoysia are what sell here...only bermuda I've seen for sale is Celebration and Tiffway 419.


Some other site (https://floridaturf.com/portfolio_tag/tiftuf-bermuda/) says they have TifTuf a little outside Orlando : https://www.lakejemfarms.com but their website doesn't list it. Could give them a ring.

For seed, stick to the newest stuff with good NTEP ratings. I don't believe Maya would be worth saving a hundred bucks.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

smurg said:


> ktgrok said:
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> > Yeah, sod is more than a little more...Seed will be $150 or less, sod would be bout 2 grand. And I haven't seen tiff-tuff in the area, I did look. St. Augustine and Zoysia are what sell here...only bermuda I've seen for sale is Celebration and Tiffway 419.
> ...


I'll check with Lake Jem. As to the seed, Maya is new, and does have good NTEP ratings, from what Im seeing? It tested under the experimental name RAD-CD1. https://www.ntep.org/data/bg07/bg07_13-10f/bg0713ft01b.txt

I do find the argument given for Royal Bengal, that it is resistant to scalping and has a lower growth habit interesting...it doesn't score quite as well, but close, and has been touted as good for heat/humidity more than other bermuda, which in Florida is most of the year. And I do hate the scalped look. I don't mind paying more for another cultivar but not if it's actually going to look worse, with my busy mom/newb skills as far as taking care of it, you know? The woman at Hancock Seed's argument was that Princess 77 and Arden 15 look better but only if you mow super low, etc...that with higher mowing and more average upkeep Royal Bengal would do better. And the woman at Outside Pride recommended Maya or even BlackJack for my part of Florida, with BlackJack having a finer leaf texture.


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## smurg (May 30, 2018)

ktgrok said:


> smurg said:
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I'd look at ratings for the location closest to you and barring the exact state, somewhere close with a similar soil profile. They did have testing from Florida in 2010 for Maya and it was still a bit worse than P77:


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

This is the 2012 info from NTEP, I've circled the ones I'm considering and their scores at FL1, which is closest to me (Gainesville testing area, I'm in Orlando area). RAD CD1 is Maya, SWI 1070 is Arden 15.

Seem pretty close, which brings me back to wondering if what Hancock said is true, that Arden will only really look good at very low mowing heights, with very frequent mowing, like a golf course, and for less maintenance something like Royal Bengal will look better in my home yard? (no big price difference there..between those two it is just about what will look good cut slightly less often, with a rotary - no way will I be able to cut every other day like some do).


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

And talked more with someone heading up the turf studies at the University and basically he said that out of the ones I'm looking at there probably isn't "a hill of beans" worth of difference between them, that scores vary month to month, and to decide based on price and availability, and if I don't like the result kill it off and use a different one next year


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

I think you can extract much more data than you are from the NTEP reports. The information available for scalping, seedheads, disease/insect tolerance, etc can all provide valuable info, even if it wasn't obtained in Florida.

Most bermuda cultivars are going to look similar if maintained at 2"+ with a rotary. Do you prefer a darker color, better scalp resistance, disease resistance, etc? These ratings may be a much better decision maker for you than overall turf quality.


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

I've been in the same Dilemma as well. I've been doing a ton of research and looking at several of the reports mentioned above and I still haven't committed to a seeded variety yet. 
I cut down all the trees in my front yard. I have some common Bermuda there now. However it's very sparse. I've been working on getting out the broad and grassy weeds. I'm almost ready to plant. 
I'm thinking about seed just so I can get the yard established this season instead of taking plugs from my back yard. 
I've been back and forth with Princess 77, riviera, blackjack, maya, and triangle Bermuda. 
I'll only be rotary mowing at 1.25". My front yard isn't full sun, but mostly sun until the late evening when the sun gets behind my neighbors leyland cypresses. 
I want my yard to be thick as possible so I'm leaning towards blackjack since it can tolerate the most shade, in the seeded varieties, just to be same.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Spammage said:


> I think you can extract much more data than you are from the NTEP reports. The information available for scalping, seedheads, disease/insect tolerance, etc can all provide valuable info, even if it wasn't obtained in Florida.
> 
> Most bermuda cultivars are going to look similar if maintained at 2"+ with a rotary. Do you prefer a darker color, better scalp resistance, disease resistance, etc? These ratings may be a much better decision maker for you than overall turf quality.


Oh trust me, I've been looking at ALL the reports, lol, going back years and years. My husband thinks I'm crazy, lol. I just only linked the one report. 
I'm thinking top concern is ease of establishment...so seedling vigor. Then density, disease resistance, wear tolerance. Color as to light/dark green isn't important to me, and my husband is colorblind, lol. Winter color is nice, but less important than if I can get the stuff to grow and establish. So yeah...I'm probably overthinking at this point, lol.


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## Bbq freakshow (Mar 9, 2019)

Just get a reel and arden 15! Its an improved version of p77.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

ktgrok said:


> Spammage said:
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> 
> > I think you can extract much more data than you are from the NTEP reports. The information available for scalping, seedheads, disease/insect tolerance, etc can all provide valuable info, even if it wasn't obtained in Florida.
> ...


In Regards to Seeding vigor...Royal Bengal is a great choice if I remember correctly from all the NTEP studies.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

ENC_Lawn said:


> ktgrok said:
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> > Spammage said:
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Yes, it is that plus the lower growth that has me leaning towards it, on the recommendation of Hancock Seeds.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

ktgrok said:


> ENC_Lawn said:
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I did a lot of reading on Royal Bengal and almost purchased it myself.

Depending on who you talk too...some prefer a mono stand of Bermuda seed. ( Princess 77, Riveria,etc)... while others advise a blend of Bermuda.

Royal Bengal is a great seed to do a mixture with. So you could always go that route.

Laprima XD is just that. It's a blend of Yukon and Royal Bengal I believe going off memory.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

smurg said:


> I'd sod TifTuf for $1800. A little more upfront, but you may end up saving money in the long-term through water usage and products to beautify it depending on how far down the rabbit hole you go.
> 
> If you're set on seeding, go with the Arden 15. You'd be spending $200 for 10 lbs most likely then? Not sure if saving a little over $100 on the Maya is worth it, but depends on the budget.


This. I've never seen seed that looks 1/4 as good as sod.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

SCGrassMan said:


> smurg said:
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> > I'd sod TifTuf for $1800. A little more upfront, but you may end up saving money in the long-term through water usage and products to beautify it depending on how far down the rabbit hole you go.
> ...


I'm sure the sod looks better, it just isn't in our budget right now. I have a bathroom torn down to studs that needs to be finished, etc etc. And trust me, if we have even halfway decent grass that is irrigated, fertilized, and mowed regularly we will be dominating most of the neighborhood.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Then I'd wait and save. Finish the bathroom right, save, and do the yard right. My $0.02.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

SCGrassMan said:


> Then I'd wait and save. Finish the bathroom right, save, and do the yard right. My $0.02.


Unfortunately the HOA disagrees with that logic. They want some green grass in the yard, and seeded will pacify them well enough. A brown/dirt yard while I save up won't. Besides, honestly, we want to move in the near future anyway, and given that 80-90 percent of the yards in my neighborhood are scraggily bahia, seeded bermuda should look fairly good in comparison.


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## thesouthernreelmower (Aug 28, 2018)

If you are not sure how long you'll be in the home, on a budget, hoa after you. Then just throw down any Bermuda seed. It will be better than what you have now. I don't think it really matters.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

thesouthernreelmower said:


> If you are not sure how long you'll be in the home, on a budget, hoa after you. Then just throw down any Bermuda seed. It will be better than what you have now. I don't think it really matters.


In the above circumstances I'd tend to agree. Other than to say why are you renovating the bathroom somewhere you're leaving soon?


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

SCGrassMan said:


> thesouthernreelmower said:
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> > If you are not sure how long you'll be in the home, on a budget, hoa after you. Then just throw down any Bermuda seed. It will be better than what you have now. I don't think it really matters.
> ...


Because it had mold in the walls. It is currently stripped down to studs. Fun times


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

So, I ended up ordering the Maya Bermuda, based on NTEP scores as well as price. I figure if we are still here next spring and don't love it we can redo it then. But for now it should give us a decent lawn, and in our neighborhood that should be a selling point on it's own.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@ktgrok I think that is a good choice. Start a reno thread so we can all follow and keep up with your progress.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Spammage said:


> @ktgrok I think that is a good choice. Start a reno thread so we can all follow and keep up with your progress.


Thanks, I will!


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

ktgrok said:


> Spammage said:
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> > @ktgrok I think that is a good choice. Start a reno thread so we can all follow and keep up with your progress.
> ...


I'm interested in learning about maya as well. Look forward to seeing your progress


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

ktgrok said:


> SCGrassMan said:
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Ugh. That sucks man!


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