# What is this grass?



## Gamecock_Lawn_Guy

Hey TLF,
New member here, and also a new (first time) homeowner in NC. One of the things I really have gotten into the past year has been lawn care. I noticed in late winter/early spring patches of this in my front yard. Can anyone help me identify what it is and how to treat it? I feel like it's starting to slowly spread through the entire yard.


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## SNOWBOB11

I think that's a warm season grass. Maybe bermuda or zoysia I'm not sure.


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## CorpRaider

Hi neighbor. Looks might be common bermuda to me (or maybe nimblewill). Easy to pull up?


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## Gamecock_Lawn_Guy

Yes it comes up pretty easy to pull up. I went over it with a dethatcher today and A LOT came up. Planning on aerating tomorrow and then over seeding with tall fescue.


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## CorpRaider

Yeah sounds like probably nimblewill, especially if its in shady/wet areas. Had some good luck with pylex and tenacity (the generic versions) on my nimblewill this fall. The common bermuda I think I'm going to need a nuclear warhead.


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## g-man

It looks like nimble will but if it is Bermuda, aeration will spread it. I would skip it and do the tenacity / pylex and seed tomorrow.


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## Gamecock_Lawn_Guy

Is there any way to tell the difference between the two?


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## CorpRaider

Defer to experts but you could look for some more nimblewill pics online, hard to tell for sure from your shots, honestly I thought I saw both. Nimblewill pulls easy (like breaks off from roots easy...not is easy to remove for good mechanically) and likes shade and moisture. Bermuda doesn't love shade. Are you pulling up big runners?


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## Gamecock_Lawn_Guy

I'm not pulling up any long runners. But the thing is, this spot is in direct sunlight most of the day. I found some pictures on how to tell the difference between the two, and I'll check it out this morning and report back.


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## TNguy

CorpRaider said:


> Yeah sounds like probably nimblewill, especially if its in shady/wet areas. Had some good luck with pylex and tenacity (the generic versions) on my nimblewill this fall. The common bermuda I think I'm going to need a nuclear warhead.


I don't think a nuclear warhead would bother common bermuda too much.


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## stevehollx

Gamecock_Lawn_Guy said:


> Is there any way to tell the difference between the two?


Nimblewill has thinner stalks than Bermuda. It also greens up before Bermuda does, and stays green a bit later than Bermuda. I think the seed head is a bit different, but IMO I have found that the difference doesn't really matter in how you treat it selectively.

It looks like nimblewill to me, and most people in old cool season yards in NC have it in areas that see stress (near streets, corners with wear, etc.). These spots usually fill with Poa A in the spring, and then nimblewill takes over until right around now where it starts to die out (I see some yards here in Charlotte where it is still green, others where it has been dead for a few weeks).

If you have Pylex, hit it first around mid-July and then every 2-3 weeks until it is toast or you max out the label rate. i don't like mixing triclopyr in the summer with it like some recommend, as it will toast the fescue in our summer. Pylex seems to do a bit better job than tenacity, but the price of entry of Pylex is high. Tenacity should do okay. Expect to have to treat successive years, but I've been able to significantly thin out each year.


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## Gamecock_Lawn_Guy

I appreciate the responses. I plucked a fresh stem this morning (see below). As far as your recommendation with the Pylex… this nimble and is slowly taking over my entire front yard. Should I plan on just spraying the entire yard next summer?


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## Gamecock_Lawn_Guy

*also wanted to add, my front yard gets a lot of sun and irrigation.*


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## CorpRaider

Sheesh man, IDK. Still looks like both in the top pics to me. I just sprayed as much as possible of both with Gly a few times before seeding. I probably will do the same next fall, but with plugs from my KBG plot.


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## Grassyknoll

Don't know much about Bermuda since I'm a cool season guy but definitely familiar with nimblewill. If you have tenacity on hand it'll turn nw white in a week. I don't believe it has the same effect on Bermuda but could be wrong.


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## Gamecock_Lawn_Guy

Good tip. I'll give it a try.


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## mjc440

That second picture looks like Bermuda to me and that's consistent with the area being very sunny. Although I've found tenacity to be highly effective on nimblewill, it hasn't done much to Bermuda for me.

My suggestion would be to spray tenaxity/tryclopyr in June to slow the spread and then for multiple rounds of glysophate in late august and September before reseeding the area. I've found that fescue establishes quick enough that it's easier to just start over. I'm subsequent years you probably will still need to spot spray glysophate in late summer to get the Bermuda that survived.

Good luck!


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## fortyeightjake

CorpRaider said:


> Yeah sounds like probably nimblewill, especially if its in shady/wet areas. Had some good luck with pylex and tenacity (the generic versions) on my nimblewill this fall. The common bermuda I think I'm going to need a nuclear warhead.


What Pylex product are you using?


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## Gamecock_Lawn_Guy

I haven't used Pylex/Tenacity yet. The yard was just aerated, fert, and seeded last week.


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## CorpRaider

fortyeightjake said:


> CorpRaider said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah sounds like probably nimblewill, especially if its in shady/wet areas. Had some good luck with pylex and tenacity (the generic versions) on my nimblewill this fall. The common bermuda I think I'm going to need a nuclear warhead.
> 
> 
> 
> What Pylex product are you using?
Click to expand...

I just used the roundup for lawns premixed stuff with topramezone. Crabgrass destroyer I think it is called. "Tenacity" I just got the generic MESO (so I guess I actually used neither pylex or tenacity haha). I haven't used the meso much yet (I've got a whole bottle...I think I'm going to mix with some crossbow and spray when I get to 60 days after germ).

Most of mine I sprayed with GLY but in areas with a lot of good TTTF I used one dose of meso and two of the topra. Seems to have hammered the nimblewill. TBD on the bermuda.


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## hurricane1091

You already got your answer but it is Bermuda and it ruined my lawn. I tilled up large sections of my yard as a result. I still have it in spots and have a game plan. There's no easy solution to this one unfortunately. I am going to contain it and keep growing tall fescue to choke it out.

I am not an expert but I did a lot of research. You're not going to spray round up and think it will just kill the Bermuda. They sell products that contain the Bermuda that need repeated applications. Keep doing that and plant fescue. Some people say to solarize it. It's hell.


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## g-man

hurricane1091 said:


> You already got your answer but it is Bermuda and it ruined my lawn. I tilled up large sections of my yard as a result.


Tilling bermuda means that you spread the bermuda even more. It wont die from the till. The roots will spread and start to grow leaves. Even round up is not a great control of bermuda.

FYI, there is a method to plant bermuda called sprigging. In short you take pieces of bermuda leaves (with the stem) and spread them on top of bare soil. Water it and you will have a bermuda lawn from those pieces once they develop roots again.


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## hurricane1091

g-man said:


> hurricane1091 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You already got your answer but it is Bermuda and it ruined my lawn. I tilled up large sections of my yard as a result.
> 
> 
> 
> Tilling bermuda means that you spread the bermuda even more. It wont die from the till. The roots will spread and start to grow leaves. Even round up is not a great control of bermuda.
> 
> FYI, there is a method to plant bermuda called sprigging. In short you take pieces of bermuda leaves (with the stem) and spread them on top of bare soil. Water it and you will have a bermuda lawn from those pieces once they develop roots again.
Click to expand...

Yeah I've read that but at the same time I do remain hopeful. The roots were not deep and this wasn't Bermuda that was very established. I tilled and raked everything out and then buried the soil with a ton of new soil and planted a new cool season grass on top. It could come back I guess and if it does I'll just totally give up. All the research I did basically said the only real option is to grow tall fescue to prevent the sun from hitting the Bermuda and preventing the Bermuda from. Growing anymore.

Bermuda is just a weed here, I doubt it can be grown as an actual yard. I'm far north. I know the Bermuda spread to the bare spots in my yard this past summer and it was gross. I'm still hopeful with a nice thick lawn that it won't happen but I understand your comment and the risk. It never seemed to spread anywhere there was well established grass, it just went where there wasn't any which was alot of areas in my case.

I won't know until next year. I just know I went deep enough and made many passes with the tiller to ensure no root system was left, and spent hours raking it out. If it can honestly come back next summer and break through this new thick lawn then it's never going away and I'll just have to sell the house and move lol. I really saw no other option for other than what I did regardless. It's worth a shot I figure. I'm all for trying things.


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## g-man

www.zillow.com


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## hurricane1091

g-man said:


> www.zillow.com


Lol I do have plans to move to a warmer climate, maybe Bermuda will make up the yard wherever I go. I really am hopeful though. Bermuda probably won't start growing here for many months so it's going to be a long wait and see.

You already know what I've done so I'm waiting for advice if you have any. I tilled it and raked out 20 contractor bags of material (dirt, weeds, etc) and I can't go back and undo it. I buried the soil and planted fescue mix on top. All I can do is really get that as healthy and thick as possible but whatever else can be done I'd like to do. Given the location I'm obviously not going to see any sort of signs of Bermuda until April or May. I can use some of the stuff mentioned here if I see it. Anything else?


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## mjc440

The only thing I would add is that it won't grow back in partially shaded areas. Even here in central Virginia the fescue outcompetes it in any meaningful amount of shade. Depending on the location, something like a crape Myrtle could give you enough summer shade while still allowing for decent fescue.

But I would still just apply glysophate in august and reseed. I'm down to a few strands every year now but I stated out with half a yard of it four years ago.


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## fortyeightjake

CorpRaider said:


> fortyeightjake said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CorpRaider said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah sounds like probably nimblewill, especially if its in shady/wet areas. Had some good luck with pylex and tenacity (the generic versions) on my nimblewill this fall. The common bermuda I think I'm going to need a nuclear warhead.
> 
> 
> 
> What Pylex product are you using?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just used the roundup for lawns premixed stuff with topramezone. Crabgrass destroyer I think it is called. "Tenacity" I just got the generic MESO (so I guess I actually used neither pylex or tenacity haha). I haven't used the meso much yet (I've got a whole bottle...I think I'm going to mix with some crossbow and spray when I get to 60 days after germ).
> 
> Most of mine I sprayed with GLY but in areas with a lot of good TTTF I used one dose of meso and two of the topra. Seems to have hammered the nimblewill. TBD on the bermuda.
Click to expand...

Gotcha, I looked for that type of Roundup at my Home Depot but they don't stock it. I've got a bermda problem in my fescue and I'd like to try Pylex before glyphosate.


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## Old Hickory

There is a thread dedicated to Bermuda supression in cool season lawns. I would read it and use the valuable information for your battle that will begin next Spring. 

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21427&hilit=Bermuda+supression


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## CorpRaider

fortyeightjake said:


> CorpRaider said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fortyeightjake said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Pylex product are you using?
> 
> 
> 
> I just used the roundup for lawns premixed stuff with topramezone. Crabgrass destroyer I think it is called. "Tenacity" I just got the generic MESO (so I guess I actually used neither pylex or tenacity haha). I haven't used the meso much yet (I've got a whole bottle...I think I'm going to mix with some crossbow and spray when I get to 60 days after germ).
> 
> Most of mine I sprayed with GLY but in areas with a lot of good TTTF I used one dose of meso and two of the topra. Seems to have hammered the nimblewill. TBD on the bermuda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Gotcha, I looked for that type of Roundup at my Home Depot but they don't stock it. I've got a bermda problem in my fescue and I'd like to try Pylex before glyphosate.
Click to expand...

I had to order it on roundup direct (I think that's what it is called). I think maybe amazon had it too.

I want to try fualzifop and triclopyr in spring, but from what I gather the F-fop isn't cleared for KBG (and I just planted a bunch of it). I will still probably do it. haha.


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## fortyeightjake

Thanks guys, I'll check out that thread.


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## Gamecock_Lawn_Guy

I'm going to try and hit my lawn with some PreM next weekend. Is there a brand/type that you all recommend?


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## bernstem

Gamecock_Lawn_Guy said:


> I'm going to try and hit my lawn with some PreM next weekend. Is there a brand/type that you all recommend?


Prodiamine or Dithiopyr.


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## Gamecock_Lawn_Guy

Hey fellow lawn gurus! I wanted to send an updated picture of this weedy grass that's in full swing this spring. Can anyone help me identify what this is and how to knock it out without causing too much collateral damage to the yard?


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## g-man

That's poa annual. Gly + sod. Also, bag mow to collect the seeds.


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## Gamecock_Lawn_Guy

Thanks g-man. Do you recommend any type of Gly in particular? My grass is tall fescue and I'm hoping to avoid destroying my lawn.


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