# Honda HRR21610PKC or Toro SR 20382



## Baretta (Apr 8, 2019)

Found a 2 year old Toro SR 20382 asking $450 cdn/$335 us. Plan was to get a new Honda push mower $615 cdn all-in. The Toro does have a Honda engine. Which would you choice and a brief reason why? Thanks!


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

I've never owned a Toro but have had a couple of Honda's. 
Honda always gets my vote.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

I have also never owned a Toro. And I have also owned two Honda mowers. One I sold to my neighbor when I moved.

The other I bought when I wanted another mower. Because I had my first one for twenty years and it always ran for me.

So, ask yourself this question. You can buy a Toro with a Honda mower. But you cannot buy a Honda with a Toro motor.

When a manufacturer picks a competitors engine, what is it that they thought or knew that led them to make that decision?

Think about that for a minute. It ought to tell you something.

But up in Canada, and here in the USA, we still live in a free country, at least for a while longer. So...which one? Your call.

But if it is my money, and I am picking between these two, I'll take the Honda, seven days a week, and twice on Sundays!

Oh, and how about those Raptors, eh? :thumbup:


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Here is what Consumer Reports has to say on the choice you are considering:

https://www.consumerreports.org/push-mowers/honda-vs-toro-who-makes-the-best-push-mower/


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## Baretta (Apr 8, 2019)

Shindoman said:


> I've never owned a Toro but have had a couple of Honda's.
> Honda always gets my vote.


Figured it would. :thumbup:


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## ram82 (Dec 19, 2018)

I have both.Honda is great mower for price.was surprised at how well it has done for me,especially on leaf cleanups.the super recycler is better made but is new so not sure on how the txp engine will hold up,but I think you said it had a Honda engine.the sr is lighter and quicker and leaves a better cut.also have an hrx and like the recycler better for mulching.


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## Baretta (Apr 8, 2019)

FlowRider said:


> Here is what Consumer Reports has to say on the choice you are considering:
> 
> https://www.consumerreports.org/push-mowers/honda-vs-toro-who-makes-the-best-push-mower/


Great points...thanks for sharing. I did see this link but this is comparing push mowers. The Toro is PP Super Recycler. Up here they go for over $800 cdn before taxes. Regardless, am just wondering if the Toro was a good deal to pass up.

That makes two so far in favour of Honda.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Baretta said:


> FlowRider said:
> 
> 
> > Here is what Consumer Reports has to say on the choice you are considering:
> ...


I think either brand will provide you with a great lawn mower. It is almost like Chevy versus Ford. Each will get the job done.

I am loyal to brands that have worked well for me. I do know motors, and I study what makes them work better, a lot.

I look at how a brand does in racing. Racing will break stuff if it is not designed and built correctly. Some brands do not race. But brands that do always learn from racing.

And what I have found is - if the motor lasts when racing, it will last longer when you are using it for your own use.

I am loyal to Kawasaki, Honda, Yamaha, Chevy, Nissan, Toyota, and General Motors. Why - because they win at the races.

Look at the list of manufacturers I listed. Think about how many times they are in the winners circle. There is a reason why.

Oh, and Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Lamborghini, and Ferrari do all right, too.  So you could do okay with those brands, too....


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## Baretta (Apr 8, 2019)

FlowRider said:


> Baretta said:
> 
> 
> > FlowRider said:
> ...


If I'm not mistaken...which could likely be. The Toro has the same Honda engine as the one in the HRR model. Confirmation on that one? Also, as you mentioned in another topic. The warranty does hold value...again...too good a deal?

My first car was a '90 Chevy Camaro...brand spankin'. The thing was a lemon.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Toro Honda motor is GVC 160cc, Honda HRR216PKA uses the same GVC 160cc engine. I think the C in PKC is for Canada....

Yeah, even the racing manufacturers can throw off a lemon or two. My first car was a 1969 Pontiac GTO convertible, 400 cubic inch motor, factory air conditioning and factory 8-track (yep). It would run with anything on the road at the time, and usually would leave people in the dust. It was stolen and used as a getaway car in a bank robbery. Cops called me and wanted me to pay impound fees on it. I was a student and didn't have the $1850 at the time. That same car I saw sell for $80,000 at auction this year. Oh, man, the road not taken.... Probably better off anyway, that GTO could have killed me...!

I don't buy used equipment. Too many issues that could be hidden. I like warranties and knowing that the engine/machine has been properly taken care of. The little bit of money you may save is not worth it, to me. I have had warranty repairs done on some of my machines; it happens. And I have had recall repairs done; that happens too. But not on my nickel...!


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## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

FlowRider said:


> So, ask yourself this question. You can buy a Toro with a Honda mower. But you cannot buy a Honda with a Toro motor.


Those are two statements. There is no question there  . But just for argument sake, let's assume you meant to ask why you can't buy a Honda with a Toro engine.

The main reason is because Honda is an engine company first and foremost. That's their specialty. They're so good at it, in fact, they decided to incorporate their engines into the larger machines that used them (motorcycles at first) and then leveraged that knowledge to gain entry into other industries (cars, power equipment, etc.).

It also doesn't make a lot of business sense for Honda to buy and incorporate a 3rd party engine in their design vs using their own company's engines (lost profits and all). Honda, Toyota, Bosch, and other large companies that make many types of products across different industries tend to be good stewards of their own products.

Toro, on the other hand, is a "turf, landscape, rental and construction equipment" manufacturer (as described on their website), despite their early beginnings as an engine manufacturer. They, and other equipment manufacturers don't tend to be married to any one engine manufacturer or design and its easy to see why.



FlowRider said:


> When a manufacturer picks a competitors engine, what is it that they thought or knew that led them to make that decision?


People tend to "stick with what they know" (i.e. are brand loyal), whether that's to the equipment manufacturer or the engine used in it, regardless of the merits, features, or reputation of the competition. It's obvious you are a "Honda guy" and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. Toro, and other companies' use of multiple engine brands is almost certainly done to attract more potential customers who are brand loyal like yourself. It has little to do with that company's ability to manufacture their own engine. A "Honda guy" may not give a Toro mower the time of day with a Briggs engine. But put a Honda engine on that same exact mower (ah ha!) and all of a sudden it's a different story (maybe not with you, per se. But perhaps with someone a little less fanatical about their Hondas :lol.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

@quattljl

I don't come here to argue.

The reason the Honda GVC 160 is used by a number of equipment manufacturers is straightforward: it is an industry leader and its reliability is legendary.

I don't talk about other equipment for one reason only - I do not own that other equipment, so I have no experience from which to speak.

I just try to help people out who are looking to choose between options. If one of their options is equipment I own, I offer my experience with my machines.

And I am loyal to what I own if it deserves that loyalty. I research everything I can find before I buy equipment - choose wisely and you have machines that will serve you well for years, even decades.

So how is that Troy-Bilt push mower working out for you?


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2019)

I would never get a mower that is self-propelled by pushing with your thumbs like the HRR. The HRX217hya is the only Honda I would consider but the HRX didn't mulch good in a recent LCN video, the super recycler in that video cuts better and has a higher height of cut which is important on a cool season lawn where I live cuz I go GCI turf style in the summer.

I wouldn't base my decision on a Honda or a Briggs engine. As far as I can tell, a reliable 4 cycle mower engine is a pretty low bar to hurdle. I've had Toro mowers with Briggs engines go 10+ years and didn't really even changed oil, maybe once or twice. Only thing I've put more wear and tear on was maybe my girlfriend in college. Legendary reliability indeed.


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## Baretta (Apr 8, 2019)

I'm a bit surprised the SR is still unavailable. A self propelled HRR216 model up from the push just got posted asking $250. Not sure how old it is but it does have the mulch/bag green lever on it.

I think for me it boils down to spending that kind of money and not having the warranty to fall back on. I currently don't have deep pockets and a new vehicle is in the future. I've never owned a mower other than a push so I don't know which I would prefer (self driven).

On a side note on comparing the two companies and what tends to be picked up on CL at least here in my neck of the woods... Honda's tend to go quick unless a ridiculous asking price is posted.

Honda sold in minutes.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

You might be able to get some good deals now that the newer model Honda HRXs are hitting dealers' showrooms.

I hope whatever you decide on gives you years of great service. Like I said, I think either model will serve you well....

But muh legendary reliability  :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1rjNTKZ7o0


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## Baretta (Apr 8, 2019)

FlowRider said:


> You might be able to get some good deals now that the newer model Honda HRXs are hitting dealers' showrooms.
> 
> I hope whatever you decide on gives you years of great service. Like I said, I think either model will serve you well....
> 
> But muh legendary reliability  :


Seen all the videos.

HYA/C here in Canada is just over $1k. If there's a promo it's less than a hundred. Don't see any lower end HRXs posted on the Cdn website.

I'm sure I'll be happy with push model should I decide to go new which will be in roughly 2 weeks.  Thanks!


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## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

FlowRider said:


> I don't come here to argue.
> 
> The reason the Honda GVC 160 is used by a number of equipment manufacturers is straightforward: it is an industry leader and its reliability is legendary.


Not trying to start any fueds. Just wanted to offer a counter argument for why you can't get XYZ brand engine on a Honda mower.



FlowRider said:


> So how is that Troy-Bilt push mower working out for you?


So far so good although I don't ask a lot of it these days. Troy-Bilt is obviously not a high end brand. This one is just a basic, no frills push mower that was given to me by my parents. It lived a pretty hard life before I got it (mowing sandy, bare dirt with hardly any grass and lots of rocks to clearing heavy brush). That said, all it needed was a new air filter, carb, and spark plug to run like new. Add in a fresh blade and an oil change and for less than 50 bucks I've got a mower that starts on the 1st or 2nd pull and runs as good as ever.


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## Dewiz (Jun 2, 2019)

@Baretta

I would go with the Super Recycler. I got a SR with the Honda engine and I love it.

I can't talk for the HRR model but I had 2 of the HRX, the HRR's bigger brother and I returned both of them due to a lack of suction mowing anything above 3". It gets worse the higher you mow while leaving uncut strips of grass.

After purchasing the SR after returning my 2nd HRX mower there are several things that I liked more such as it's lighter easier to maneuver, rolls easier on concrete, Personal Pace system is WAY better and cuts/mulches way better.

Now I know why the LCN prefers the Toros


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## Baretta (Apr 8, 2019)

I've read about people complaining about suction issues in the forum. 90% I would be mulching anyway.

LCN does like his Toro's, especially the TM but I'm pretty sure he says the Honda gives the best cut vs SR.

Interesting you were unlucky twice...sucks!


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

I just used my Honda to cut back a bunch of liriope (monkey grass) my builder put in my flower beds. I raised the cutting height up to the highest level (4") and drove the mower up into the beds and under the multiple holly bushes, cutting all the liriope down to 4" except where the mower could not reach. I thought it was going to be a nightmare to regain control there.

The Honda cut it all without stalling. Not once. Bagged it all. It went with the weekly trash pickup. Bodda book, bodda bing.

The Honda, claimed to lack suction on the Errornet or by folklore (probably a rumor started by competitors getting their market share crushed; or by people who do not know how to properly set up their equipment nor read their owner's manual; or else don't know which end of a screwdriver to use  :lol: ), sucked it all right up into the bag and made what would have been a miserable task in the summer heat into a 45 minute job. It cut and vacuumed all that liriope up like it was nothing.

I can only speak from my own experience. My Honda cuts quickly and cleanly, cuts down everything in its path, runs like a champ, starts on the first pull, takes on everything I can throw at it without failure, and comes with a four year warranty.... :thumbup:


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## lambert (Sep 12, 2018)

I'm a big fan of the Toro SR. It is more nimble and lighter than the HRX Hondas I've used, and it cuts great. Btw., the Toro TXP159 engine is not made by Briggs, it is made for Toro by Loncin and is a ghetto clone of a Honda GXV engine -- on paper it is a much better engine than the Honda GCV series. I think the reason Toro offers the Honda engine version of the SR is because there are folks who won't buy a mower if it doesn't have a Honda engine. I would save a few bucks and get a SR with the Toro TXP engine.


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## Baretta (Apr 8, 2019)

Well I've decided to go with the HRR216...ordering in the next few days. The SR is still available at about $425. With no warranty its too much money for me to risk.

https://powerequipment.honda.ca/Content/pe.honda.ca/fa4589a2-d86b-449c-8422-2b35bb07ed9d/ModelPage_ImageCarousel_Tout/HRR216PKC_18HPE_01_EN.png


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_IlNbsILLE


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