# Why shouldn't I choose KBG for a reno?



## ryeguy (Sep 28, 2017)

KBG is the most popular reno choice around here and other boards. It scores highest on genetic color, is self repairing, and seems to handle temperature extremes well -- so why would I bother with rye or fescue? Since those aren't self repairing, does that mean I'd get stuck in an endless overseeding cycle where I can't apply a pre-m for part of that season? The major downsides I've seen of KBG are higher water requirements and slower germination times.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

That is a great question, and it is something that I have thought about a good deal.

The watering demands and the sprout and pout that you mention are major factors. Fatigue, worry, and unforeseen complications get very real after 30 days of grinding. It is a big commitment, so it is good to know what you are getting yourself into with a KBG reno.

I don't know enough about turf practices in Michigan to advise you specifically. I can say that if you haven't done a reno before, it would be best to try something that establishes more quickly, such as PRG, so that you can practice and learn the ropes.

For those of us in the transition zone, KBG becomes far more challenging. The humidity poses such a risk for fungal infections with the frequency and duration of the watering schedule that it is a daring exercise (though some forum members are having success in their efforts to grow KBG in the transition zone). Some cultivars, such as Midnight, handle the heat better than other KBG varieties.

When you consider KBG's ability to repair and spread, it does seem like a no-brainer: Big front-end cost with a better payoff in the end. I tend to agree with the way you are thinking about it.

By the way, you can use a pre-M when overseeding/reno with fescue. Tenacity is a good choice. Seed down and Pre-M on the same day.


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

There is also preference. Some people like the look of different types of grass.


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## fusebox7 (Jul 27, 2017)

If you're comparing KBG to PRG (both of which I've now had pure stands of as well as had them in a northern mix)... the PRG definitely needs way more water in my experience. PRG is a beautiful grass, but yes it will die out in hot/dry summers and cold winters. Sound familiar?

The KBG may need more water in the beginning since it takes longer to establish but once it's established, it's able to go dormant (if you want) and bounce back when cooler/wetter weather arrives (ie. fall).

The one obvious caveat is site-specific and would be if you have a lot of trees that produce dense shade - then you might be better off with a fine fescue mix.

In a world of instant-gratification, don't be afraid to commit to the most successful turfgrass here in Michigan. It has been bred to adapt to all sorts of conditions these days. Good luck with your choice and remember to have fun!

And since you're in Southeast Michigan (assuming zone 6?) you may have a few more options according to MSU extension in Oakland County:
https://www.oakgov.com/msu/Documents/publications/oc0172_grasses_michigan.pdf


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## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

+1 to Social Port. This is my first foray into KBG (and i'm transition) and seeding KBG is a long process vs TTTF and PRG.

I'd also like to point out light requirements is a big factor for some people. TTTF does better in the shade than KBG. I have a section of yard that gets 1 hour of weak morning sun and then another 1-2 of late evening sun. The TTTF does well there, and I know that's no where near enough sun for KBG.

Also, if you properly maintain TTTF through out the year, you don't have to overseed every year.


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## ryeguy (Sep 28, 2017)

fusebox7 said:


> If you're comparing KBG to PRG (both of which I've now had pure stands of as well as had them in a northern mix)... the PRG definitely needs way more water in my experience. PRG is a beautiful grass, but yes it will die out in hot/dry summers and cold winters. Sound familiar?


How much dieoff are we talking about here? Is it where you're just hand throwing seed to cover up bare spots here and there, or does the lawn look noticeably barren after winter to where you need to use a spreader to fill in spots everywhere? I'm considering PRG for my small backyard as I have 3 dogs and something that germinates quickly would be useful for filling in holes, but not if I have to do a significant amount of reseeding each season.


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## fusebox7 (Jul 27, 2017)

ryeguy said:


> How much dieoff are we talking about here? Is it where you're just hand throwing seed to cover up bare spots here and there, or does the lawn look noticeably barren after winter to where you need to use a spreader to fill in spots everywhere? I'm considering PRG for my small backyard as I have 3 dogs and something that germinates quickly would be useful for filling in holes, but not if I have to do a significant amount of reseeding each season.


It typically will make it a few seasons before noticeably thinning out. PRG will be the _perfect_ application now that we understand you're trying to correct bare spots due to active wear. That's why a lot of football and soccer fields use PRG. "Fling and forget".


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## kds (Apr 28, 2017)

fusebox7 said:


> PRG will be the _perfect_ application now that we understand you're trying to correct bare spots due to active wear. That's why a lot of football and soccer fields use PRG. "Fling and forget".


Shoot. Maybe I should have used PRG instead of TTTF then to hold up to dog traffic (and for easy repair).


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

kds said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> > PRG will be the _perfect_ application now that we understand you're trying to correct bare spots due to active wear. That's why a lot of football and soccer fields use PRG. "Fling and forget".
> ...


There's no reason you cant have both unless your a diehard of only keeping one type.

Many elite mixes have TTF/Rye/*** together so that you get the best of each.


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