# Troubleshooting LED lights on a toro



## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

So I am trying to figure out if the wiring harness is bad, switch is bad, or led lights are bad. I do not think it is the light because they should last a long time being LED. I have a multi tool to help diagnosed but am not sure I am using it right.

This is how I have everything plugged in



First thing I did was unplug the wiring harness from the switch and tested it



The current that I got was bouncing between 7-13

Then I plugged the harness into the switch and tested the connector that plugs into each light


It was even more erratic. Bouncing from negative to positive numbers.

I believe the switch is good and it is either the wiring harness or the connection of the harness to the motor. Here is a pic of the connection


What kind of connector is this. Can I easily pull it apart check it and put it back together? Do I need to follow the wires into the houseing that holds the pull chord?

I am ok when it comes to things like carbs but when it comes to electrical I really struggle. Also do I have the multi meter set up properly?


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

You are on the DC current measuring range of 200 microamps. This is probably too sensitive a range. You probably want to measure voltage. LEDs typically use DC voltages of 1.5 to 3 volts and will light anywhere from 5 to 80 MILLI(not micro) amps.
There are also common LEDs that actually have two connected back to back in the same enclosure and depending on the polarity applied they will have two colors.

It is VERY unlikely that anything is wrong with the LED unless something really bad happened to put a big overvoltage or way too much current through them. I have done some very abusive things to LEDs on the test bench just to see how much abuse they could take and I was amazed.

I think you should be measuring on the 20 volt voltage range. Does the mower have a battery? 12volt?


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

@gene_stl

No it does not have a battery. It is a walking greens mower.

So should I turn the dial to dcv on 20 or leave it on the current and turn the dial to 20m or 200m


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Turn that to volts DC 20 (upper left). And then check the voltage at the light connection.

Led do go bad. There are electrical connections in there and they could fail.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

So I think I have it figured out now. Since the mower does not have a battery, it has to be alternating current. So I set my multimeter to ACV 500



I tested where to wiring harness plugs into the mower wires and got a reading of 33-35 volts. I then tested right before the switch and got the same reading. I then tested right before the light with switch on and got the same reading. I turned the switch off and it went to 0. So based on the volts,. The wiring harness and switch are good. I need to replace the LED lights correct?


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

LEDs are inherently DC devices. They are diodes which is what you use to convert AC to DC. But they will operate on AC but only on one half cycle. Do they flicker when you shut the engine down and the rpm drops. They probably flash once per revolution.

Your logic doesn't sound bad to me. I prefer to get a circuit diagram rather than just poking with the voltmeter (which I do have to do often enough)

Do you have a wiring diagram you could post a picture of?

I was able to get a pdf of the GM1000 but it did not shed any light on anything nor even mention an LED indicator.
Is this part of a headlight system?


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

@gene_stl

I do not think the lights flicker. I do not know though bc they don't even turn on.

I have not found any kind of circuit diagram. This is all I know about the kit on the mower.

#10 say plug wire harness to connectors coming from the engine blower housing.



Here is what it is connected to coming from engine blower housing part #12



The rest of the diagrams/ instruction just show where to put the switch, lights and how to plug the wiring harness into the switch and lights.



Thanks for your help so far but this is all I have to go on. My guess is there is a diode built into the LED light itself?


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

So I just got done talking to a service technician and I was right. The light is out. There is a regulator/diode built into the light that allows it to run off alternating current. Now my search begins to find something aftermarket. Do not want to pay the 150 a piece toro wants for new LEDs.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

I was not following you well. When you said LED light I was imagining an LED indicator light. If you have voltage at the headlight terminals yes it is the LED light or it's regulator . Can you open the LED light? It probably was snapped together. You may be able to insert a blade and pop it apart.

$150 is pretty cagey pricing. Way too much for what you get but low enough that maybe easier than building something.

What you need is a "Full Wave Bridge Rectifier Module" Followed by an Adjustable constant current voltage regulator

There may be a bridge rectifier in the generator coil or wiring harness. Or it could be in the lamphouse. Having two won't really hurt unless you wire it backwards then you will get nothing at all.

This will convert your AC or pulse DC to DC:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/GeneSiC-Semiconductor/KBPC3502T?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtQ8nqTKtFS%2fKGlmTW84eZIVO5obBe%252bKs2pJke95VhfHg%3d%3d

You can then regulate the voltage with a circuit like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Voltage-Converter-Regulator-Transformer/dp/B01MT8BBC1

Then attach a light. There are lots of ways to skin this cat. lots of other regulators "suggested" below. Make sure the regulator has enough current capacity to supply however many amps your light uses. LED illuminators may use much more power , volts and amps than mentioned above. But still not usually more than something under ten amps and 12 volts and usually just a few watts (volts times amps)

You could place a couple of extra capacitors , one between the bridge rectifier and the regulator and another after the regulator. These would be electrolytics so you have to be observant of polarity or they will pop and spray awful oily corrosive electrolyte all over everything. (guess how I know)


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

@gene_stl

Are the capacitors needed?

Also this is how my mower is wired to begin with.



Where would I put the bridge rectifier followed by the ajustable voltage regulator to still have use of my switch. I think I am going to go this route bc I do not want to spend $300 for the toro lights


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

@gene_stl

Maybe something like this?


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## Alan (Apr 23, 2017)

Mount a couple of these and call it a day.

https://www.amazon.com/TaoTronics-TT-HP007-Rechargeable-Headlight-Waterproof/dp/B01MSZASB1/ref=sr_1_21?s=outdoor-recreation&ie=UTF8&qid=1529094976&sr=1-21&keywords=bicycle+lights


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

You should wire it so that the switch goes before the bridge rectifier so when you switch it off it is completely off.
The caps are optional its the type of overkill I like to do. It would mean no flickering not even to fast to see.

Alan's idea of bike lights isn't bad. some rechargeable ones would go pretty long between needing to be charged. But I feel that rechargeable batteries have spirits in them that wait for the opportunity to screw you over. By comparison I find two cycle carbs much more reliable. :lol: :lol:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06W593FTT/ref=sspa_dk_detail_7?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B06W593FTT&pd_rd_wg=jXNtH&pd_rd_r=A863Q65ZXYS0XAKPE5WG&pd_rd_w=ZKJXM

this guy looks intriguing


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

You guys do know they make ready-made regulator/rectifiers designed to take aprox 30VAC and output nominal 12VDC right?

Replacement Voltage Regulator For Briggs and Stratton # 393374 394890 691185

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001OKFC08/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_FpVjBb35NP8Y2


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

I suspected that such things might be available but did not know about those ,no. Those are exactly what he should use.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

Thanks for the help I will definitely be using those


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

I need to take a voltage measurement from my Jake, (Honda GX120) to see what I get for VAC off the stator. I suspect that since the only connected load is a ?? Watt lamp, I'm going to get roughly 12-15VAC. That may or may not be enough to power a regulator-rectifier and expect 12VDC. Now I wish I had enough junk around to try it..... maybe, I might..... have to look and see.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

What would be more important than voltage is the current capacity of the regulators. They have to have enough amp capacity to drive the LED lights. It looks like there is a single coil on the toro. You might just get a bridge rectifier and ignore the regulator part. With two lights it is unlikely that that coil is going to burn out the LEDs. If the voltage is too high you could wire them in series. I think the kind of regulator that MasterMech is talking about will be perfect IF it sort of matches what Toro puts there. Can you tell who built the motor. Is it a Toro branded engine. Does it look like a Briggs or someone elses. Sort of looks Honda like in the manual you posted. The LEDs are probably a couple of watts each.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

@GeneIV

Engine is a Subaru. The only technical thing I know is it is getting 32-35 VAC. I also believe it's all internal inside the light.

One other thing is both lights are out which to me is unusual. Maybe the wires are putting off more voltage then they are supposed to and fried the lights? Or do you think that is not probable.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

We aren't blazing a new trail here either. Plenty of guys have done exactly what we're discussing here, just on snowblowers, not mowers. There are setups with the LEDs wired to just a bridge rectifier, some that use the lights as a half-bridge (not the most desirable setup).

I would think that if the alternator on the engines were originally spec'd to drive one or two halogen/incandescent lamps, current capacity should not be an issue with switching to LEDs. There are plenty of options in the 10W neighborhood that would illuminate the daylights out a twilight mowing session.

LEDs are often spec'd to accept wide ranges of DC voltage as well. Many will run on 9-32VDC. That should cover anything from our mowers to 24VDC systems often found on large earthmoving equipment and OTR trucks. So a regulator may be unnecessary but I have seen mention of utilizing a filter capacitor to smooth out any voltage ripple from the rectification that can shorten the life of many LEDs. And no, I'm not planning on dragging the oscilloscope to check. Lol.

I did take a peek at the documentation for the Honda GX120, looks like I should have either a 20W or 50W AC output available depending on what specific ignition module is installed. I'll take a meter to it later tonight.


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