# Reel Adventures in WI!



## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

Hi All,
I am new to the forum but got addicted to @wardconnor videos on Youtube and I'm hooked. I currently have a Toro SS5000 rotary but looking to sell and get into the reel game.

Just bought a 2002 3100D RM and the seller also has 2 2007 Greensmasters for $700 (reels are sharp and grind is good). Debating picking one up with the 3100D so I have a trim mower. I live 2 miles from a Toro supplier/servicer so I'm planning on a full grinding of reels and bedknives of the 3100D over the winter. Should I get the Greensmaster?

My property is 1 acre with around 25K-30K Lawn. Its new construction and the lawn was planted in July, but the grading was off and there were too many rocks I am having it redone on Sept 30. Complete overhaul regrade with harley rake, rockhound, 120 yds topsoil, seed/starter fertilizer, and straw blankets. Idea is to start with the reel mowing in the spring...

Any recommendations out there on how to proceed to ensure success on this before throwing even more money? :lol:

Seed is a 60% KBG 20% PRG 20% Chewings Fescue. Still debating on Starter Fertlizer. Picking up a used Lesco today, want to eventually create a sprayer unit like @wardconnor as well.

Thanks all and excited to be here!


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## MassHole (Jun 27, 2018)

dlucas589 said:


> the seller also has 2 2007 Greensmasters for $700 (reels are sharp and grind is good).


2 for $700 total? Buy them both!


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

@MassHole Haha no, $700 each. Sounds like maintenance has been top notch on them...

...and correction, he has 3 2007s and 1 2006. All 700$ each recent trade ins from Medinah CC


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## KHARPS (Jun 21, 2018)

Sept 30 is awful late to be putting down seed in Wisconsin. What kind of seed are you putting down?


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

@KHARPS 60% KBG 20% PRG 20% Chewings Fescue. Hopefully Oct remains warm(er) than normal to get it started...

https://www.reinders.com/products/10-1400/


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## Mattsbay_18 (Aug 3, 2018)

Looks like a fun machine and looks like you have a good plan in place. Are you dropping irrigation lines too?


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

@Mattsbay_18 Yes, I installed the irrigation lines back in July and did the grading myself (which is why it needs to be redone :lol: ) but at least the irrigation works!


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## Mattsbay_18 (Aug 3, 2018)

@dlucas589 I am really looking forward to seeing the end results. Keep us posted on the progress. I'm planning a 2020 lawn renovation and would like hear any feedback you have on the crew you hired for the finish grade. I might have to drive by and check things out next year


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

@Mattsbay_18 Absolutely! I'm over by Ironwood Golf Course. and I see you are in Hartland. That is where I grew up! I'll keep you updated

PS LMK if you want one of these Greensmasters...


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

What is plan B if the seed doesn't work?

Also, I'm not a fan of chewing fescues and with the reel I think it is worst since it mats down so fast.


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

@g-man Seed not working as in not germinating before winter comes? The plan would be to overseed in the spring. I've read on some forums that people even seed up until snow comes and any seed that doesn't germinate is "frozen" and will be naturally irrigated by spring thaw and snow runoff in the spring. Not sure what truth there is to that...

Honestly, I don't really have another choice but to seed right now. I don't want to wait until spring to re-grade and go through all of it then.

I'm open to other grass seeds, Reinders up here has a ton of mixtures. Should I just go straight 50/50 KBG PRG do you think?


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## RyanH (Sep 11, 2019)

I've seeded KBG late up here and had very little germination come freeze up. Once the snow melted in the spring it really took off. I think it will go for you. Throw more down the spring as well.

Not related exactly, but I've spread winter rye very late season in my garden as a cover crop and had no germination at all before snow. Once the snow melts in the spring the garden is green under the snow.


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

@RyanH Thanks for the data point. Really looking forward to next spring when it all takes off.

I'm confused on the Chewings Fescue as the description on the seed calls for this type of mix on fairways and tee boxes and can be mowed to 5/8", leading me to believe it does well under a reel cut.

Any northerner's recently plant new lawns? What seed did you go with and how did it turn out? Where did you buy it?


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## DIYDad (Sep 12, 2019)

Hey I'm also new here, I'm only an hour north of mke. I just did a reno of my front lawn recently, I put straight KBG down on August 18th, second weekend of August. Had pretty good germination after only 8 days, and full germination after about a week and a half. I think it might be just a tad late in the season to get seed down, at least for the KBG in the blend you have to fully mature. The fescue should be fine this late however. I need to reseed a couple of spots that were either bare or low germination, was going to do that this weekend. I believe it takes 45 days post germination for the grass to mature, so if there is frost before that time then you could have some die-off over the winter. I'm hoping even if 50% survives the winter then I'll be happy with that in the spot seeded areas. I also just started reel mowing a few weeks ago with a manual push reel mower. Lots of work and time but it looks way better than my old rotary mower! Worth it!


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

dlucas589 said:


> @RyanH Thanks for the data point. Really looking forward to next spring when it all takes off.
> 
> I'm confused on the Chewings Fescue as the description on the seed calls for this type of mix on fairways and tee boxes and can be mowed to 5/8", leading me to believe it does well under a reel cut.
> 
> Any northerner's recently plant new lawns? What seed did you go with and how did it turn out? Where did you buy it?


The issue isnt the HOC possibilities, its more its characteristic floppiness. Its not a strong grass, its very thin and wispy and as such a single drop of dew can collapse the entire plant onto the ground it feels like sometimes.

If your religious about your cutting you'll probably be fine, but if you ever leave it and let it get long to 2-3 inches your in for a bad time as it will fall over and mat down to the ground. Then its impossible to cut without intervention, stays wet too long and can be a launching point for disease.

I've never reel mowed Fine fescue, but i would assume the act of the front rolling pushing over the grass with just exacerbate the problem, because it wont pop back up under the mower and get cut, especially if its wet at all.

Tall Fescue/PRG/KBG We like because of the upright look and cut



Fine Fescue on the other hand looks like this, and it spreads On top of that, its not a sun grass and will go dormant/die off in direct sun unless heavily watered even then it will probably fade/brown.



IMO unless you have area's of heavy shade, i wouldnt purposefully put down Fine Fescue. Even then honestly i'd rather have Bentgrass or something. Even then i'd only seed those super shady area's that get no sun with it.

But i've never reel mowed it like i said, and i can see it working ok in a blend if you are diligent like a golf course on your mowing. It was a pain to rake up/blow matted fine fescue on my 2.5k sqft. I cant imagine ever doing it for 30k


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## Mattsbay_18 (Aug 3, 2018)

@dlucas589 I've attached two photos of two different grass mixes from Reinders.

First Picture:
The lawn with the stripes is their Supreme Blend and the darker green lawn is their Five Elite Blue blend. This picture was taken in April, so both lawns have nice spring green up. One difference that you can't see in the picture are the blade widths. The bluegrass lawn has thin and consistent blade width throughout the lawn. The Supreme Blend has various blade widths giving the lawn an uneven look.

Second Picture:
Photo was taken today. You can see that there is a difference in the darkness. The Supreme Blend has a much lighter appearance.

Both are great seed mixes but I would consider going with their Five Elite Blue. Since you took the time to drop the irrigation lines and you'll be mowing low, the bluegrass will stand out. I hope this helps.


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

@Mattsbay_18 This is immensely helpful, thank you. For a minute I was doubting Reinder's altogether and contemplating ordering online. Will definitely look at Five Blue Blend. Do you know what Lb/1,000 sq feet these were seeded at?

@FuzzeWuzze Thanks for the insight! The entire lawn is full sun so no reason to do any Fescue. Thinking 100% Bluegrass mix now, do I go for local Reinders mix, or order elite cultivars online for 300-400 more?

Reinders Mix - ~ $500 for .75 acre lawn at 3lb/1,000
20% America Kentucky Bluegrass
20% Blue Velvet Kentucky Bluegrass
20% Fielder Kentucky Bluegrass
20% Granite Kentucky Bluegrass
20% Mercury Kentucky Bluegrass

BETTER BLUE KENTUCKY BLUEGRASS BLEND - Preferred Seed - $832 + shipping for .75 acre @ 3lb/ 1,000
Just confirmed: The mix contains:
Rhapsody 
Bewitched
Award

Might go with this mix from Preferred seed...

Finish landscaper doesn't have plans to use Roundup to kill existing lawn/weeds, plan is to chew it all up with Harley Rake and regrade with fresh topsoil. Should I hit the entire thing with Roundup before he comes or will it not matter because it will all be torn up anyway?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Obviously the elite blend has newer/better varieties, but it is quite a bit more expensive so it really depends on your personal finances at that point. Both blends will result in a nice lawn.

That said if your going through all this work, and only want to do it once you may want to do the elite blend if you can swing it.

Otherwise if something doesnt turn out right to your liking you'll be kicking yourself over not spending the extra few hundred up front.


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## Mattsbay_18 (Aug 3, 2018)

Ditto to what Fuzze said. You bought the mower, you have the irrigation and you have new level soil on the way. Might as well go with the elite cultivars. Not a knock on Reinders but their blends are not blue tag or sod quality.

I would nook the the lawn before the crew gets there. Allow the lawn/weed killer to work its magic - let set for 7-10 days to allow the product to work its way down into the root system to completely kill off old lawn/weeds. For heaving weed infestation, you may need to do a second application to be sure its knocked out completely before removing the dead lawn.


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

@FuzzeWuzze @Mattsbay_18 
Thanks all.
I see both of you have PRG or TTTF in your lawns...should I be worried about going 100% KBG on a new established lawn? Other than a slower establishing grass, are there any other downsides to 100% KBG?


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

Also, I'm planning on decomposable single-net weed free straw mats on the whole lawn after seeding.

Any opinions on this one way or another? How does the straw compare to mulch pellet products?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Honestly the real risk you have is timing. As others said your about a month late for planting. My KBG was barely cuttable at 1" 30 days in and still quite sparse. And thats with it growing in ideal 70F/50F weather for that month which your not going to have at your location for the next 30 days im going to guess, your going to be approaching your first frost very soon i would think. I'd be worried about the seedlings not being strong enough to live through your guys harsh winter under snow. PRG can and does look amazing cut short. If your willing to wait until Spring to do pure KBG maybe i'd risk it, but if your hellbent on getting something down now throwing in some PRG, even 10% by weight will give you some grass cover that may help the KBG stand a chance of living through winter? Just a guess.


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## Mattsbay_18 (Aug 3, 2018)

dlucas589 said:


> Also, I'm planning on decomposable single-net weed free straw mats on the whole lawn after seeding.
> 
> Any opinions on this one way or another? How does the straw compare to mulch pellet products?


I've used both. If you are talking about the Seed Aide pellets from Reinders, those are junk. Straw mats hold seed and moisture much better in my opinion.


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

Mattsbay_18 said:


> dlucas589 said:
> 
> 
> > Also, I'm planning on decomposable single-net weed free straw mats on the whole lawn after seeding.
> ...


So I can either do straw or Curlex (aspen wood fiber). The straw is "certified weed free"

https://www.reinders.com/products/american-excelsior-8-x-1125-premier-straw-quick-degrade-erosion-control-blanket-with-single-sided-white-net/?orderItemId=5c5a9e59-d9fd-4a4a-b06c-2a9dd7d6d286

https://www.reinders.com/products/223-1399-pl15/?orderItemId=59e964b9-df94-41d2-9d81-a81a479dabee

Curlex is $700 more than straw for the whole lawn. Go with straw right? Or maybe the Curlex protects better over winter?


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## Mattsbay_18 (Aug 3, 2018)

@dlucas589 I went with the straw matting. Worked great. I did rotary mow after seed was established so I'm not sure how long it would take for the straw and netting to break down for a reel mow.

You might have to rotary for a little while your seed cover breaks down.


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## mattcoughlin (Jul 8, 2018)

dlucas589 said:


> @Mattsbay_18 This is immensely helpful, thank you. For a minute I was doubting Reinder's altogether and contemplating ordering online. Will definitely look at Five Blue Blend. Do you know what Lb/1,000 sq feet these were seeded at?
> 
> @FuzzeWuzze Thanks for the insight! The entire lawn is full sun so no reason to do any Fescue. Thinking 100% Bluegrass mix now, do I go for local Reinders mix, or order elite cultivars online for 300-400 more?
> 
> ...


I have a similar blend to the better mix (midnight instead of rhapsody) and i think you'll really be happy with it. I planted mine mid september last fall and while it was spares going into the winter it was completely filled in by mid june. you could always overseed any areas that are really bare in the spring.


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

Mattsbay_18 said:


> @dlucas589 I went with the straw matting. Worked great. I did rotary mow after seed was established so I'm not sure how long it would take for the straw and netting to break down for a reel mow.
> 
> You might have to rotary for a little while your seed cover breaks down.


Good to know, I'll have to really think on this one. I know everyone goes straw, and thats likely what I will do, but the curlex is tempting


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

Here's the mix I'm going with (I'm custom mixing it once I get it)

90lbs/30,000 sq ft -- 3lbs/1,000

100% KBG

25lbs - Blueberry (Compact)
25lbs - Bewitched (Compact)
20lbs - Midnight (Midnight)
10lbs - Rhapsody (America)
10lbs - Washington II (Aggressive - For Winter Hardiness/Seedling Rigor)


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## jdselig (Jul 17, 2018)

I will throw one more in the mix. This is Reinders 50/50 KBG PRG Athletic mix. I cut between 1 inch and 1.75 inches depending on mower, time of year and how much time I have. Seeded last August. Some pics from late fall, this summer and now..


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

@jdselig That is beautiful.


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

jdselig said:


> I will throw one more in the mix. This is Reinders 50/50 KBG PRG Athletic mix. I cut between 1 inch and 1.75 inches depending on mower, time of year and how much time I have. Seeded last August. Some pics from late fall, this summer and now..


@jdselig Wow, truly amazing! Especially after only 1 season.

Can you elaborate on seed blankets, seeding technique, seed lbs/1,000ft, fertilizers, herbicides that youve used over the past 12 months?

#lawngoals


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@jdselig those mulch edges look perfect. What are you using for those?


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## jdselig (Jul 17, 2018)

I hit them once in the spring with the edger. The same one we all use for concrete edges. Then maintain them with the rotary scissors. The key is to have the mulch lower so you can just cut the grass overgrown. I do it once sometimes twice a week depending on how much time I have but it only takes about 6 or 7 minutes for hundreds of liner feet.



g-man said:


> @jdselig those mulch edges look perfect. What are you using for those?


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## jdselig (Jul 17, 2018)

Kill, kill and kill what you have already. You are bringing in top soil that will have tons of weeds in it. Spray it twice 7-10 days apart. Spray it again the day before you seed and after grade set.

Seed, weed prevent, fert, peat moss. I used some starter blend fert and Milorganite. More Tenacity and fert 30 days later. Nitrogen blitz will fill it it a ton. Remember new construction fill will take at least a couple years of many nutrients to get the soil conditioned.

Overseed the thin or patchy areas as needed.

This looked amazing 30,60 days later. This year looks even more amazing. All my neighbors go crazy talking about it and asking questions. People stop and ask my wife if it's real. I live in a new subdivision and neighbors who paid to have their lawns put in are yelling at their contractors because I'm a "homeowner" and they are "professionals" and their lawn doesn't look like mine. Haha I try and help them as much as I can.

I build houses and am just as anal about my homes. Customers come to my house and see the way everything it kept and it usually seals the deal.

All these methods and techniques I learned from these great guys here. Connor, Pete, g-man ect. ect.

I just wish I had time to level it. It's pretty darn good but it could definitely use a sand level or 2.



dlucas589 said:


> jdselig said:
> 
> 
> > I will throw one more in the mix. This is Reinders 50/50 KBG PRG Athletic mix. I cut between 1 inch and 1.75 inches depending on mower, time of year and how much time I have. Seeded last August. Some pics from late fall, this summer and now..
> ...


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## jdselig (Jul 17, 2018)

Couple more from this month..


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## jdselig (Jul 17, 2018)

Last October..


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## Steely (Sep 24, 2017)

I will be following this thread as well. I'm in Sussex and have used Reinders seed exclusively in the past. Mostly their Supreme mix. I was tired of the inconsistent appearance of wide and thin blades due to KBG and Fescues, so i decided to make a change when over-seeding this fall. I wasn't aware of Reinder's Five Blend Mix until someone mentioned it in another thread, but i had already ordered seed from Pendleton Turf Supply in Waterford.

The mix I bought is Jacklin's Biltmore Blue Blend which contains the following:
20% Everest Kentucky Bluegrass (Super Elite)
20% Jackpot Kentucky Bluegrass (Special Attribute)
20% Nuglade Kentucky Bluegrass (Super Elite)
20% Impact Kentucky Bluegrass (Elite)
20% Nublue Kentucky Bluegrass (Mid-Range)

I'm glad I called Pendleton because even though they have the Biltmore Blue Blend on Amazon I was able to get if for considerably cheaper ordering it directly from Pendleton Turf and they overnighted it to me for like $10. (25 lb bag)

I over-seeded on 8/24 (backyard) and 9/2 (front yard). I'm getting good fill in on thin spots and also can see good germination everywhere else. I really mowed my grass down low (1 3/4") and double-dethatched prior to throwing seed down. Waited on starter fert (Reinder's Spring Valley) until about 7 days after seed down. Wow is it green now after applying some Feature 6-0-0.

Can't wait to see your mad stripes with the tri-plex once your lawn comes in. Nice find on those mowers.

@Mattsbay_18 I play in a league at Ironwood. Also, nice looking lawn!


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## Steely (Sep 24, 2017)

Here is a pick of Reinder's Supreme mix. Again, I will be slowly introducing better KBG cultivars through overseeding.

Don't mind the bleached spots... still recovering from a Tecacity app a few weeks back.


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

@jdselig 
Thanks for the info! Its my hope someday mine will look like that! :lol: 
The Plan is to hit it with roundup tomorrow, giving about 7 days until contractor power rakes and regrades.
Will hit it again next Tuesday after final grade and before seed.

Then seed and fert with Andersons 21-22-4 + Mesotrione. 
Then I'll hit with some more tenacity/fert by end of October, Or if we have an early frost I will wait on this fert till spring.

This is current state of things..


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

@Steely 
Looking good! I live right in Ironwood West by the golf course!


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## jdselig (Jul 17, 2018)

Sounds like a good plan. Love the huge front lawn! The fact that you have had established turf is good. It has settled and will final grad very flat and nicely. Can't wait to see this progress.



dlucas589 said:


> @jdselig
> Thanks for the info! Its my hope someday mine will look like that! :lol:
> The Plan is to hit it with roundup tomorrow, giving about 7 days until contractor power rakes and regrades.
> Will hit it again next Tuesday after final grade and before seed.
> ...


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@dlucas589 I think a round up and reno of 100% in almost October for Wisconsin is very late and too risky. Overseed with prg and tackle the reno next year with a seed down in August. Look at my reno, it is still in progress from an August seed down.


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

@g-man I hear ya 100%. I ran the idea of PRG now and *** next year by the wife and she was absolutely not having it. Whatever I put down now is what its gonna be. We want to be done with the lawn (I realize i'll never be "done" - but you know what I mean  ) and another kill and reno is just not in the cards next year, as we've already put so much effort and money in it this year.

I'm willing to accept the risk of it being too late and losing some of the seedlings and overseed in the spring. I know its probably not the best way to go about it but thats where I'm at. Seems like others have had success planting late so I'm ready to roll the dice


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

Just got the Triplex today and spent the morning cleaning it up.
Next up is full mechanical maintenance to prepare for winter storage.
Was actually in a lot better shape than I expected.
Ran it around the yard and the reels still are cutting nicely
Loving it so far!


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

I love the 3100D. So good. Congrats and enjoy!!


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## Mattsbay_18 (Aug 3, 2018)

Oh man that is awesome. I can't wait to see that thing out on a nice bluegrass lawn. Is everything still on track for your seed down date?


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

@Mattsbay_18 Yes sir! Early next week


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## Steely (Sep 24, 2017)

@dlucas589 Really nice looking 3100D. Can't wait to see the stripes


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## DIYDad (Sep 12, 2019)

Be sure to let us all know how the KBG seeding works out for you! I really want to see how much success you have with seed going down this late in the year (I'm less than an hour north of you only!). I put a little extra KBG down in a few spots on Sunday that were bare from my major reno mid August. It's still filling in, but has a long way to go yet before all the brown spots I nuked are totally covered up. KBG is around 1/2" tall in some areas, maybe less. Gotta hit it with more N this weekend I think.


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

Been awhile but wanted to give you all an update on the lawn! Pics taken last Saturday
I had to cross my fingers the entire LONG winter and stare at my unused 3100D while the KBG came in SLOW this spring.
Finally took off and made sure to hit it with lots of different stuff over the past 6 months to get where I'm at. 
Still not perfect with some bare spots but some aeration tomorrow and fert should help really set it up for maximum success next year.

Figured I'd repost this here for a little before/after 


NOW


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

Another from early August


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## sangheili (Jul 5, 2020)

Looking great! Jealous of the 3100d... hoping to find one myself soon.


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## northwoods-lawn (Sep 9, 2020)

@dlucas589 At $700 for the Greensmaster, that is a steal! If I had extra right now I would drive-over and pick one up.
I'm doing an overseed right now. Going with 80% KBG and 20% PRG. I have a few spots of TTTF that I want to get rid of next Spring. I've got 3 tons of sand coming today so I can level this weekend. Only doing the front yard. Wait 2 weeks, then overseed.


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

@sangheili Thank you! You will not regret it! Prices for 3100d are all over the place. 2k-15k. Good luck finding one in good condition - stay on top of auctions!

@northwoods-lawn Yeah I didn't end up getting one of the Greensmasters. Wanted the bigger 1600 so bought one of those. Then realized I didn't need it and the 3100d takes care of all my needs. So I sold it to another member here. Good luck with your overseeding!


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## Mattsbay_18 (Aug 3, 2018)

Your lawn turned out great for having a late start last fall. Follow the fall nitrogen blitz and you are going to have a great looking lawn next spring. Congrats


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## dlucas589 (Sep 16, 2019)

@Mattsbay_18 Thank you!


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