# Help Diagnose - Sprinkler zone issue



## Lawnpool (Jun 19, 2018)

Hello - Can someone point me in the direction of how to fix a zone value? I have one zone (Zone#3) which "booms/knocks" underground when it is turned on. Water trickles out the end but not enough to raise the head and spray. All other zones (1,2,4,5,6,7,8,9) all work fine with know booming. I believe the issue to be the value and not at the control panel because the panel was upgraded in 2017 by a profession when we added zones 7,8,9. He did not address any issues with zones 1-6 during the install.

I believe this is a simple zone value fix or replacement - but have very little knowledge on how to diagnose or how to take apart/replace the value.

I have a rain bird system, all on black flex pipe (not sure that matters), and I believe rain bird values. I tried to turn on the zone manually by turning the solenoid but nothing happened at all. No knocking. I turned the bleed screw and some water trickled out but not much.

Could someone please help me with what to do next - or point me to a youtube video explaining how to trouble shoot this type of issue?

Thanks


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I dont understand what is booms/knocks. Is that water flowing?

Since you are saying that you see some water trying to get out, it is either a leak in that run(lateral) or a bad valve (not fully openning/clogged). Find your water meter and record the number in it. Run a good zone for 10 minutes, record the number. Run the troubled zone for 10 min, record the number. Did both moved about the same amount? Then it is a leak. If the troubled zone barely moved, then it is an issue at the valve.

Did this zone worked at all this year? last year? When did the problem start?


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## Lawnpool (Jun 19, 2018)

Thanks for the reply. It is a rather strange sound. Like a loud thumping underground which you can almost feel the vibrations from. It has been broken like this for about 3 years probably. I haven't used the system in a while (until the upgrade and lawn Reno in 2017).

If it were a leak - wouldn't I see water pooling somewhere?

I'll check out the water meter the next time I'm able to run the zone.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Is the boom / knock continuous (i.e. it keeps booming / knocking) as long as the zone is turned on, or does it just last a short while (say 2-3 seconds? 10 seconds?) when the zone first turns on, but then stops?

If you have a big enough leak to have the sprinklers not pop up, then yes, if you run the system long enough (say 10 minutes like g-man suggests) then you'll definitely have water making its way up to the surface somewhere.

If the boom / knock sound only persists for a short while, it is possible that it could be an issue with the pressure in the system being too high and getting a water hammer effect as the water fills the pipe in the zone. However, that theory doesn't explain why the sprinkler heads don't pop up. My guess would be that the zone valve isn't fully opening, as g-man mentions. Do you know where the control box for the zone valves is located in your lawn?


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## Lawnpool (Jun 19, 2018)

It seems I've taken one step backwards before I can take a step forward. Last night I tried to run the zone to reproduce the noise. I now can not get the zone to start at all. I will have to spend some more time trying it because it was late at night and it could have been operator error.

Is it possible that I broke the solinoid when I was attempting to turn the zone on manually? I should add that I have the Rainbird ESP-ME controller which I think would give me a fault condition if there is an electrical short with the solenoid.

I did take a picture of the value box for this zone. Not sure if this may help to identity what parts I may need (I'm still assuming this is simply a rebuild of the valve because it's a very old system). I'm guessing I need to start by digging this box out and cleaning it up a little?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It is very possible that you disconnected the wires.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

It could be the valve diaphram bouncing between open / closed. This can be caused by a few things. To simplify, here's what I would do in your shoes. Clean all the mud and dirt off that valve. You can use water, a rag and a wet vac. Buy an identical valve - they are not expensive. Remove the diaphram cover / solenoid assembly from the old valve. Clean the interior of the valve as carefully as possible. Replace the diaphram cover / solenoid assembly with the one from the new valve. Reconnect the wires. Test.


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## Rain Bird Corp (Jun 6, 2018)

Lawnpool said:


> ...it's a very old system).


Rain Bird stopped selling this valve in the late 1980s/early 1990s. We have no parts. You may have to replace the entire valve if your valve is bad.


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## Lawnpool (Jun 19, 2018)

Thanks for all the great responses! Good news - bad news - update:

First I did notice the wire had come lose so I fixed that. But that did nothing for getting the zone to turn on. Messed around with the solenoid again to manually turn the zone on - and some how got it running!!! Guess what - no knowing/booming anymore. That's the good news.

Unfortunately, now I can not get the zone to stop running by any means except to turn the water off to the entire system. Ugh - what now? Since this valve is no longer produced in guessing I'll be forced to replace the entire valve.

I did take the solenoid all the way off to check the on/off mechanism inside, hoping it is something I can repair. I was surprised to find it looked quite different inside than I expected. Maybe I lost a part in removing it?

Either way - it sounds like if the solinoid is broken I will be stuck replacing the valve.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Since you can't get any parts for it, you don't have a whole lot to lose by taking the entire valve apart and trying to clean / repair it but I'd still replace the whole thing at this point. It's old, it will fail again and if it fails open when you're not around, that would be bad.

If you look around the lawn you'll likely find a spring and a metal solenoid plunger with a little rubber cap on it where the water shot it.


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## Lawnpool (Jun 19, 2018)

Searched the ground and found the old solinoid and spring inside the valve box. Cleaned it and reinstalled the solinoid. Turned the water back on - and sure enough now the zone does not run constantly- great!

I understand my efforts may be futile - and I may need to end up just replacing the entire valve.

I did notice in one of the pictures I snapped (hadn't noticed at the time) that one of the wires appears chewed (likely by a rodent) and frayed. I will have to go back and inspect this closer. I'm wondering if this is not allowing enough power to get to the solinoid. My plan is to clip off the frayed portion, wire strip the remainder and reattach.

When I tried to run the zone from the controller, I heard a buzzing sound coming from the solenoid. Not overly loud. Do you think this could be an indication that the solinoid is not getting the full power? Or is any buzzing evidence that the frayed wire is not part of the issue?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Or the frayed wire was allowing it to create a short circuit. Cut it and restrip to see what happens.


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## Rain Bird Corp (Jun 6, 2018)

The buzzing is normal due to alternating current switching the polarity of the magnetic field of the solenoid causing the plunger to attach/detach at the rate of 60 cycles per second.


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## Lawnpool (Jun 19, 2018)

Cut-spliced-repaired wire. No change in results. So I have concluded this valve is done - and it's time to move on!

I hate to make this thread longer, however I'll now be needing some advice on identifying the correct valve to purchase and tips for installing (tools I'll need etc). It seems most videos on YouTube want to simply change the diaphragm but never address replacing the entire valve.

Secondly - my 1980's (or older?) system does not use PVC but rather appear to be using "funny pipe" throughout (see image where I've tried to show the pipe coming into the broken valve).

I'll dig the entire box and bale out for better access - but if possible I'd like to get an order in for the new valve. Can you help let me know which valve would be an ideal replacement? Second picture is of the newer valves in my system where we had a professional add a few zones in 2017. I'm guessing this is the valve I will need to order.

Please let me know if I should move this to a new thread or change the title maybe.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

This is your thread, so no worries about making it longer. It is just words in a database.

I would try first to see if you could rebuild it. Replacing the valve is a muddy mess. Try to find the model number of what you have. Then see if there are replacements parts. I think it is just your solenoid that is bad, but I would replace all the valve parts. http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Rain-Bird-Irrigation-Valves-Replacement-Parts-s/7341.htm

The pipe looks to be polypipe. I think it is better than PVC. It is being held by an Otkler (or similar spelling) ring. You will need to break the ring and replace it with a compression ring (like the ones used in car radiators). You will need to take the box off and dig some of the pipe out to give yourself some room to maneuver. You *do not* want to cut it. because then it will be missing that length of pipe when you reinstall which then means having to do an union. It seems like the other side of the valve has a threaded nut, so that part is easier.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Lawnpool said:


> When I tried to run the zone from the controller, I heard a buzzing sound coming from the solenoid. Not overly loud. Do you think this could be an indication that the solinoid is not getting the full power? Or is any buzzing evidence that the frayed wire is not part of the issue?


https://www.irrigationtutorials.com/faq/buzzing-solenoid.htm


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## Rain Bird Corp (Jun 6, 2018)

Lawnpool said:


> Can you help let me know which valve would be an ideal replacement? Second picture is of the newer valves in my system where we had a professional add a few zones in 2017. I'm guessing this is the valve I will need to order.


Your existing non-working valve is a Rain Bird EV which was a buy-out valve made by another company with the Rain Bird name. Through several acquisitions, that company's products became part of The Toro Company's Irritrol Brand products. I don't know if they still make valves or parts for it any longer. If you want to find parts, I would start by looking for Irritrol valve parts, but be sure your supplier knows this is for a valve made 30 years ago or more.

Your professional contractor installed Rain Bird DV valves as replacements and is the perfect choice for this application. The model he chose is what we call model number 100DVMB; Product ID number B70840. The MB in the model number stands for Male X Barb, meaning male thread on the inlet and barbed fitting on the outlet for use with polyethelene pipe.

If you buy the valve at a retail outlet, it will have different model numbers and product ID numbers, but it is the same valve. The model numbers and product ID numbers above are what you will find at a wholesale supplier that generally sell to contractors. Some will sell to homeowners.

Others have given you good advice on how to change this out. You can do this.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Rain Bird Corp said:


> Your existing non-working valve is a Rain Bird EV ...


I just want to say that it is _*awesome*_ to have a representative of Rain Bird Corp here on the forum.

*Thank you* for being here and making this forum an even better place!

On another lawn forum I read there used to be an Earthway representative who would post when readers needed technical support and/or assistance with Earthway products. He did this without being pushy about Earthway products or always trumpeting them as better than the competition. It was great to have him there. His presence in the forum was a big factor in my decision to get an Earthway spreader and an Earthway sprayer for my lawn. Knowing that he could provide expert help and technical support in a convenient fashion was the primary reason I purchased those Earthway products.

I'm confident that your presence here, with the right balance of technical assistance and advice about Rain Bird products without being overly pushy about them will lead to more satisfied Rain Bird customers.

Again, thanks for being here!


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## Rain Bird Corp (Jun 6, 2018)

ken-n-nancy said:


> Rain Bird Corp said:
> 
> 
> > Your existing non-working valve is a Rain Bird EV ...
> ...


You are welcome.


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## Rain Bird Corp (Jun 6, 2018)

Rain Bird Corp said:


> Lawnpool said:
> 
> 
> > Can you help let me know which valve would be an ideal replacement? Second picture is of the newer valves in my system where we had a professional add a few zones in 2017. I'm guessing this is the valve I will need to order.
> ...


Examples of wholesale suppliers in the Boston area who may sell to homeowners are:
SiteOne Landscape Supply
Larchmont Engineering
Central Turf & Irrigation Supply

Call them first to verify they will sell to you.


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## Lawnpool (Jun 19, 2018)

ken-n-nancy said:


> Rain Bird Corp said:
> 
> 
> > Your existing non-working valve is a Rain Bird EV ...
> ...


Said better than I could. Thank you to @Rain Bird Corp and all others in this community whom offer knowledge and support to those who desire to take on these types of projects.


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## Lawnpool (Jun 19, 2018)

Got the valve dug out and cleaned ready to go. I still need to locate the replacement valve - but will call around today.

A couple questions:
- I'm crossing my fingers that the newer version length will be the same or similar to the old. I don't want to deal with any pipe modifications to add / remove an inch. Is that a safe bet, or do I need to plan for that? 
-What's the easiest way to remove the old stainless pipe crimps without damaging the poly?
-I see that the 100DVMB is a male barb, however what I have hear appears to me as female threaded (read the Rainbird spec sheet to pickup that term). What is the difference and when would you consider one over the other? 
-The input/out on the 100DVMB are different sizes....what is the difference? The poly on my output appears to be the same size as my input. 
-I believe I'm safe to assume I have a 1" poly. I measured the circumference and back calculated the diameter. That came out to about 1.25, but I'm guessing the 1" refers to the inner diameter. 
-Will I need a propane torch to heat/stretch the pipe.

I also plan to pick up some crushed rock to install at the base of the new valve, similar to what my contractor had done.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

To make short work of replacing that, buy a similar valve with 1" FPT inlet & outlet (i.e., a 1" valve).

Use a pair of plyers to grip the little metal "nub" on the clamp. Twist firmly and it will break the clamp. Do same for the second clamp on that side. Only unclamp one side of the valve. The fitting should now be free to turn inside the poly on that one side so you can unscrew it from the valve while leaving the fitting inside the poly pipe. If it won't turn or is very stiff inside the poly, warm the end of the pipe a bit with a torch until the fitting will turn inside the pipe and can unscrew that one fitting from the valve.

Unscrew the valve off the other side fitting - just rotate the entire valve right off the fitting while holding the fitting with channel lock type plyers.

Replace the valve in similar fashion and use what I call a "bicycle clamp" (worm drive stainless clamp) to reclamp the one side where you had to break the ring clamps.

Screw in the solenoid, attach the wires, test.


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## Lawnpool (Jun 19, 2018)

Delmarva Keith said:


> To make short work of replacing that, buy a similar valve with 1" FPT inlet & outlet (i.e., a 1" valve).
> 
> Use a pair of plyers to grip the little metal "nub" on the clamp. Twist firmly and it will break the clamp. Do same for the second clamp on that side. Only unclamp one side of the valve. The fitting should now be free to turn inside the poly on that one side so you can unscrew it from the valve while leaving the fitting inside the poly pipe. If it won't turn or is very stiff inside the poly, warm the end of the pipe a bit with a torch until the fitting will turn inside the pipe and can unscrew that one fitting from the valve.
> 
> ...


I have been delayed a week-plus (due to lack of stock at HD for the replacement rainbird valve), but finally an Update on my progress.

I'm following the process I've quieted above. This seems to be the best route. Broke of the clamp after some fiddling. Had to dig the pipe out a little to get enough flex to pull off from the barb piece still screwed into the valve. Once off I easily rotated the entire valve and screwed it off the other end.



Once off I removed the old Teflon tape as much as possible dried and put on new tape. This was a first for me so I may have wrapped it the wrong direction- or maybe it doesn't mater? We will see. Screwed the new valve onto the pipe side still connected. Great!!



Now to reconnect the other end. Here is where I hit my first obstacle. The pinch clamps I purchased will not go around the poly pipe. I bought 1" punch clamps to match my 1" valve and what I thought was 1" pipe. Do I have the Wong size? Or do I have to release the punch clamp before putting over the pipe? Had to stop for the evening - but once I get this settled it should be quickly wrapped up.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would return those clamps. They are for PEX pipe and not polypipe.

Go to Lowe's, HD, hardware store and get these. Go with 1 3/4 so you could slide it easy.

Precision Brand B20HS All Stainless Worm Gear Hose Clamp, 3/4-1-3/4 (Pack of 10) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HWGML6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_apOvBbHV8S9G7

I tried to describe them in an earlier post, but a picture is better.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

^ +1. G-man has it.

Also, if you have trouble getting the pipe back over the barb due to its length, what I was getting at was the pipe would stay on the unclamped barbed fitting. If you are having trouble getting it all back together, remove that unclamped fitting from the valve and insert it in the pipe. Warm the pipe if it's too tight. The fitting should be able to turn even though inserted in the pipe. Line up the threads carefully and screw it into the valve with the pipe already on it. Then tighten the clamp tight.


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