# Poa trivialis conspiracy theories



## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

I'm amazed at the explosion of poa trivialis that we are all experiencing. It feels like the COVID-19 of the lawn world. It just suddenly appeared, and spread like crazy. Did anyone see, hear, or know about triv a decade ago? No. But now we all have it. I've been a homeowner and seeding my lawn for years, and I had never seen it before. In fact, I've been in my current home for 7 years, and I have pictures from the year I moved in, and I don't see a trace of it. Now it's all over. In places I renovated, in some places I aerated, and in many places I did nothing but mow. For a grass that doesn't seed, that's a lot of travel for some random stolons. I'm the only one in my neighborhood that takes care of my lawn obsessively, and I swear I'm the only one that has it. My opinion, it is the worst possible weed one can have.

Seriously, there has to be something that explains what we are all facing. I think it has to be more than "dormant seeds" and "disturbing the soil", and it's certainly not that we are using "cheap seed".

I like the theory that seed supplies are contaminated, but I would think that reports of it would have surfaced in the turfgrass seed industry. What other possibilities are out there?

Could we be seeing a genetic mutation of poa pratensis that we are somehow initiating with our cultural practices (irrigation, fertilization, pre-emergents)?

Could it exist in virtually all lawns, but only begin to reveal when fertilized, remaining completely supressed otherwise?

Or was it always there and now simply a function of the sheer number of enthusiasts that are now collaborating and discussing their turfgrass problems, making it more visible?

Something transmitted from bats to lawns?

Has anyone reached out to a turfgrass scientist to try to understand the change we have experienced? I am an alum of one of the major universities with a very strong turfgrass program, and I am tempted to reach out and ask some questions.

What other theories do you have that explains the explosion we are all experiencing?


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Triv was probably always there. As the lawn improves and is managed more intensively, the Triv will be more noticeable. In a lawn that is a salad of weeds and different grasses it does not stand out. In a Monostand any variability will stand out. This becomes especially problematic as people migrate to darker green grasses which further highlights the lighter green Triv over the older lighter green cultivars.

As an exercise, look at neighbor lawns when you walk. You will see Annua, Triv, Quack, Annual Rye, and all kinds of other grasses. They just don't stand out as much since the lawn is such a mix of different grasses and cultivars and the overall color is much lighter than an enthusiast lawn.


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## jperm47 (Jul 29, 2020)

I'm no scientist (and I'm personally suffering) but my conspiracy theory is that the more active you are with your lawn such as aeration, dethatching, fertilizing, irrigating, the more like you are to introduce a weed grass like Poa T or A. Sometimes it's the case of if it ain't broke don't fix it...just my 2 cents but I tend to agree with you that all of a sudden there is an outbreak and what could the common denominator be other than all of us obsessing over our lawns


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

mooch91 said:


> I'm amazed at the explosion of poa trivialis that we are all experiencing. It feels like the COVID-19 of the lawn world. It just suddenly appeared, and spread like crazy. Did anyone see, hear, or know about triv a decade ago?


Yes. It's being around for decades. It's been a problem for decades. Multiple herbicides try to control it and fail because it is so closely related to KBG. Multiple old time members can share their battles with poa t. Look at @ken-n-nancy journal. I had my own battles too. But I think the issue is that we *recognize it right away* and go full out. Round up right away and actually go 4-6in further out. Get a good kill when it is growing (spring).

No there is no conspiracy but now you do have the *curse* of the knowledge of what it is. And yes you can buy poa t seeds if you want to (Sable 2).


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

I just want someone to make poa annua an annual that stays green through summer. It clearly loves my yard. Lol.


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

Just plant some of this

https://www.dlfpickseed.com/Files/Files/DLF_Pickseed_USA/DLF_Pickseed_Tech_Sheets/Turf_Seed/Blend/Marine_bl_ts.pdf


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## Thejarrod (Aug 5, 2018)

bernstem said:


> Triv was probably always there. As the lawn improves and is managed more intensively, the Triv will be more noticeable. In a lawn that is a salad of weeds and different grasses it does not stand out. In a Monostand any variability will stand out. This becomes especially problematic as people migrate to darker green grasses which further highlights the lighter green Triv over the older lighter green cultivars.
> 
> As an exercise, look at neighbor lawns when you walk. You will see Annua, Triv, Quack, Annual Rye, and all kinds of other grasses. They just don't stand out as much since the lawn is such a mix of different grasses and cultivars and the overall color is much lighter than an enthusiast lawn.


100% agree. I did not notice any Triv when i first moved into our current home. after 1.5 years of more intense maintenance it "showed up". at that point, i had not put down any seed.

it just doesn't respond to normal inputs and will never get a deep, dark green. it just stays that same shade of puke green.

now that the covid vaccine is nailed down, science should shift focus to eradicating Triv. :lol:


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## AndyS (Jun 13, 2020)

I think there was any slight contributing factor it was birds.

I'm not sure if everyone had the same phenomenon, but last year after everything shut down the bird population here went through the roof. To a lesser extent other animals like squirrels also became more prevalent, but not to the same degree as birds.

It was like birds were making a power play to take over from humans during the lockdown. Now there's a conspiracy theory...


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

Bigfoot is real and he spends his evenings planting poa seeds in all of our lawns to get us to focus on something besides him so he can remain just a "conspiracy theory".


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## AndyS (Jun 13, 2020)

I think he uses a plugger, personally...


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## critterdude311 (Apr 21, 2018)

My $0.02 - I think it's primarily getting introduced via contaminated seed. Look at the number of people on this board who are doing renovations / overseeding and suddenly have it the following spring. I don't think that's a coincidence.

You throw down fertilizer on top of it with core aeration and you've just poured gasoline on to the fire.

Here's what I can tell you - prior to heavily overseeding in fall 2017, my yard had no noticeable spots. The following spring it was everywhere over 10k square feet. If I could go back in time and change one thing it would have been to skip the overseeding that year. My gut tells me the outcome would have been different. I've moved on to management at this point until we get some type of reliable selective option.


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## varmint65 (Feb 23, 2021)

I'm loading up the drone with Poa T. seed and doing nightly drops. Its called operation Stardust! :mrgreen:

Will


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## KoopHawk (May 28, 2019)

bernstem said:


> As an exercise, look at neighbor lawns when you walk. You will see Annua, Triv, Quack, Annual Rye, and all kinds of other grasses. They just don't stand out as much since the lawn is such a mix of different grasses and cultivars and the overall color is much lighter than an enthusiast lawn.


This. From the car any green lawn will look pretty uniform. The closer you get the more you can see differences in the types of grasses, especially now that you're trained to look at such things.


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## Lumalux (Aug 23, 2019)

My lawn had an explosion of poa this spring - worst ever - despite a fall pre-emergent treatment by Virginia Green that was supposed to control it. Luckily it's confined to a couple of areas and not throughout the lawn.


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## Thejarrod (Aug 5, 2018)

AndyS said:


> I think there was any slight contributing factor it was birds.
> 
> I'm not sure if everyone had the same phenomenon, but last year after everything shut down the bird population here went through the roof. To a lesser extent other animals like squirrels also became more prevalent, but not to the same degree as birds.
> 
> It was like birds were making a power play to take over from humans during the lockdown. Now there's a conspiracy theory...


sorry @AndyS birds are not actually real. https://www.audubon.org/news/are-birds-actually-government-issued-drones-so-says-new-conspiracy-theory-making


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

Lumalux said:


> My lawn had an explosion of poa this spring - worst ever - despite a fall pre-emergent treatment by Virginia Green that was supposed to control it. Luckily it's confined to a couple of areas and not throughout the lawn.


Pre-em controls Poa A fall germination (the one that makes seed heads in the spring), not poa T (the floppy lime green waxy grass that grows 2x fast and creeps in spring & fall). The latter is what this thread is about.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

I have my first Poa T infestation this year on my front (un-renovated) lawn. Last fall was the first time I scarified, so I'm pretty sure the Poa T was there all along but contained and now it's everywhere since I basically scattered Triv stolons all over.

Point is, your culprit could be new lawncare practices rather than some seed manufacturer process change.


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## Old Hickory (Aug 19, 2019)

learningeveryday said:


> Just plant some of this
> 
> https://www.dlfpickseed.com/Files/Files/DLF_Pickseed_USA/DLF_Pickseed_Tech_Sheets/Turf_Seed/Blend/Marine_bl_ts.pdf


I live near a golf course and I'm convinced their out-of-bounds tall grasses are being transferred to my lawn via birds.


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## f_l (Aug 11, 2020)

it's the cicadas


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## AndyS (Jun 13, 2020)

Thejarrod said:


> sorry @AndyS birds are not actually real. https://www.audubon.org/news/are-birds-actually-government-issued-drones-so-says-new-conspiracy-theory-making


"Pigeons are Liars!"

That was 3 minutes well spent :lol:


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## 2L8 (Mar 18, 2019)

There are several reasons, I think.

1. The trend to grow darker green lawns makes it more visible.

2. Intensive lawn care, especially irrigation, may promote Triv even more than the other grasses.

3. It appears in spring, possibly because it can handle low light conditions better than most other grasses and starts faster. In summer, it hides under the other grasses that outgrow it and there is shadow that Triv prefers.

4. Seed contamination is a very important point. I got an information from the German Lawn Association (DRG) that at least in Europe the contamination of grass seeds increases. I had a TTTF/KBG blend examined at a lab, and they found 1 seed of Poa trivialis, 2 seeds of Poa annua and also 7 seeds of PRG and 2 of FF in 3 gram (0,106 oz). So I have evidence that Triv was already in the blend.


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## Jersey_diy (Sep 5, 2020)

Go to your big box store and look at the full shade grass mixes....you will see poa trivalis in there...We have been planting it for years. Broad leaf weeds are too easy to kill now. POA annua and Triv are just the ticket for the herbicide companies....Eventually there will be a new savior herbicide released once glysophate is outlawed.


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