# Trying to spread Bermuda grass (stolons and rhizomes ).



## Pgentile1300 (Sep 9, 2019)

Trying to spread my Bermuda grass into the areas where the crabgrass use to be. If I use a pre-emergent, will that prohibit the growth of the Bermuda? If so what do I do?


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## Darrell_KC (Mar 20, 2019)

Not to piggyback, but I have the same question as well, and for the same issue. I want to kill off some crabgrass and use fall pre-emergent soon, but I read that pre-emergent can stop the growth of stolons and make it harder for bermuda to spread.


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## erdons (Apr 3, 2018)

Sprayed glyphosate to kill Dallis grass and crabgrass, a few days before I had put down prodiamine. Probably had 3 months of no movement, the runners simply would not tack on and would die. About a month ago I aereated to break that pre emergent barrier and finally started getting movement at a rapid pace. If I could go back I would not use the pre emergent and would just let the Bermuda spread and fight the crabgrass as it comes up, I personally wouldn't put down a pre emergent until the dead spots have filled in.


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## Darrell_KC (Mar 20, 2019)

erdons said:


> Sprayed glyphosate to kill Dallis grass and crabgrass, a few days before I had put down prodiamine. Probably had 3 months of no movement, the runners simply would not tack on and would die. About a month ago I aereated to break that pre emergent barrier and finally started getting movement at a rapid pace. If I could go back I would not use the pre emergent and would just let the Bermuda spread and fight the crabgrass as it comes up, I personally wouldn't put down a pre emergent until the dead spots have filled in.


Thanks, I think this answers my question. Im expecting a fair amount of die off and hole filling from where crabgrass got a good foothold during my renovation. My concern is, if i spread pre-emergent in spring, will the pre-e stop the bermuda from filling in once the peak growing season hits? Then I wouldnt get the bermuda filling in, and also not get weeds but be left with just open spots until the pre-e wears off

Thinking out loud, would it work to spread pre-e on the lawn, but once May hits and its growing season, I could use a weasel and break up the open spots to break the barrier and then let bermuda do its thing?


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## erdons (Apr 3, 2018)

Pretty much, I was in peak growing season from may through july, tried a balanced fertilizer, urea 46-0-0 and it moved at an absolute snails pace due to the pre emergent. Last summer I didn't put down a pre emergent and would get spots to fill in rapidly. You might be ok to use fall pre emergent as your Bermuda is going to go Dormant anyway and by the time it's spring the pre emergent barrier will have worn off, of course yes using the weasel to break up those spots will help.


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## Darrell_KC (Mar 20, 2019)

thanks for the advice on that, I think I will go with the fall pre-e treatment, and then in spring just try to stay ahead of weeds with a post emergent and filling holes with harvested stolons and a pro plugger


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

You can plug into those areas, or use a screw driver and trip long runners and press them into the areas. Both will work, because your getting the establishment into the soil and not trying to get the rooting on top to push through the preM, any runners the branch will still have a similar tacking issue, but you'll have nodes growing in the middle....or take a rake to those areas and disrupt the soil surface


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## p1muserfan (Jul 7, 2019)

Darrell_KC said:


> erdons said:
> 
> 
> > Sprayed glyphosate to kill Dallis grass and crabgrass, a few days before I had put down prodiamine. Probably had 3 months of no movement, the runners simply would not tack on and would die. About a month ago I aereated to break that pre emergent barrier and finally started getting movement at a rapid pace. If I could go back I would not use the pre emergent and would just let the Bermuda spread and fight the crabgrass as it comes up, I personally wouldn't put down a pre emergent until the dead spots have filled in.
> ...


You NEED pre-emergent in the the early spring if you don't want to fight crabgrass again next summer. When the bermuda comes back next spring just feed it regularly and it will be fine. Don't be breaking that pre-emergent barrier!


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## erdons (Apr 3, 2018)

Of course, unfortunately my only choice was to kill that dallis grass with glyphosate, I've been fighting dallis grass for a few years and this year i finally got it controlled, or course next spring i will put down pre emergent with the expectation that I will no longer have bear spots that need to fill in.


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## WDE46 (Mar 11, 2019)

erdons said:


> Of course, unfortunately my only choice was to kill that dallis grass with glyphosate, I've been fighting dallis grass for a few years and this year i finally got it controlled, or course next spring i will put down pre emergent with the expectation that I will no longer have bear spots that need to fill in.


I got some MSMA and annihilated it. Worked amazingly well.

Plugging is the way to go for bare areas. Sprigging can work but you need to keep them alive with water for a while to get them to stick. Need to water plugs too but rather than dying from no extra watering, they'll just suffer and come back eventually when it rains.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Conventional pre stops root growth. I know Simazine does not. In fact, it is labeled for application to plugged or sprigged turf.


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## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

For what it's worth, Dithiopyr is said to be less of a "root pruner" than Prodiamine, so that's why I've been using it. It also doesn't have as long of a residual effect. In my area, I just put it down in late February so that come about mid June or so, the pre-em is starting to wear off and the bermuda can start running. Then of course I have the Celsius and Sedgehammer in the holster ready for any weeds that dare show their ugly face .


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## DuncanMcDonuts (May 5, 2019)

How does a preemergent prevent the spread of bermuda runners? I thought it only stopped new germination from seeds.


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## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

DuncanMcDonuts said:


> How does a preemergent prevent the spread of bermuda runners? I thought it only stopped new germination from seeds.


Pre-ems actually don't prevent germination; they inhibit certain processes of seedlings to prevent them from maturing, thus killing them. They also can prevent rooting to an extent, especially at the soil surface.

That's why you see the use of a garden weasel suggested here. If that vapor barrier is broken up, there's a much better chance runners will be able to penetrate down into the soil.

This is a great video from Matt Martin at TGF breaking down Pre-ems:


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Oxadiazon is your friend, with simazine as a backup option.


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## Still learnin (Sep 9, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> Oxadiazon is your friend, with simazine as a backup option.


That's some pricey stuff (Oxadiazion)


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Or maybe Isoxaben? Supposedly not hard on spreading grasses, okay for sprigging, etc.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

ktgrok said:


> Or maybe Isoxaben? Supposedly not hard on spreading grasses, okay for sprigging, etc.


Isoxaben is good for broadleaf and not grassy weeds.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Still learnin said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> > Oxadiazon is your friend, with simazine as a backup option.
> ...


The WSB bags are often a better value than spreadable granule.


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## Still learnin (Sep 9, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> Still learnin said:
> 
> 
> > Movingshrub said:
> ...


Looks like a minimum of almost $300 for a full acre. I'm planning on either a 1/2 acre or full acre renovation next summer. Sometimes having a large yard is for the birds. May be cheaper in the long run though since hopefully it would reduce the need for post emergents and allow the sprigs to spread without weed interference. Decisions.


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## Rick S (Feb 21, 2021)

I am having the same issue with my runners not tacking down and it sounds like it's because of my pre-emergent chemicals.

Question: Bermuda spreads by stolons and rhizomes. 
The stolons are on top - and they won't tack down.
The rhizomes are below the surface and spread below the surface.
Will the rhizomes still spread, pop up through the surface, and live - or are my pre-emergents stopping them also?


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## AZBermuda (Jan 20, 2021)

I have had issues with filling in bare spots for years in my Bermuda lawn and have tried multiple things. My personal experience is that heavy pre-emergent (max dose) prevented nearly any spread/fill-in, minimum dose on the bag did still allow spread, but no pre-emergent allows the quickest spread. If your yard has a huge weed burden I would recommend using the lowest dose possible, and no pre-emergent with judicious post-emergent use if you have a relatively small amount of weeds without pre-emergent.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

It's not hard to break up a pre-M barrier. The areas you want to increase spreading, rake it with a small hand garden rake and top dress with some sand. That'll give the stolons something to bite onto and the rest of your yard will stay under Pre-M control.


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