# One Rogue Zone Running Full Tiime



## 12Saturdays (May 13, 2018)

I have a nine zone irrigation system, with a Rachio controller and mostly Toro T5 heads. The rest of the system I'm somewhat uncertain on as I it was in place when we moved into this house.

I have an issue where one zone (zone 5) is running whenever any other zone runs. So when zone 1 runs, zone 5 is also running - when zone 2 runs, zone 5 is also running, etc. This same behavior happens whenever any of the other eight zones runs. I've tried disconnecting the zone 5 wire from its terminal at the controller...but zone 5 still runs with the wire disconnected.

What's the next thing I should look into to troubleshoot this issue?

Thanks!


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

Does your system use a master valve?


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## 12Saturdays (May 13, 2018)

I'm uncertain about that. There's a valve inside the house right near the controller that will shut off water to all zones - I switch this one off in the winter months before blowing out. Otherwise, I know of three valve boxes in the yard, but I've never opened or investigated these before.


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

Is that valve right near the controller wired to the controller? Or is it just a manual valve?


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## 12Saturdays (May 13, 2018)

The valve right near the controller is not wired to the controller, it's just a manual valve. Highlighting in the picture below


However, now that you have me looking there is a Toro Remote Control Valve just above this manual valve (also seen in the picture above) and this is connected to the controller. The picture below shows the side of it with the product label.


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

That is probably a master valve then. You could confirm by checking your Rachio advanced wiring settings, you should have a master valve enabled. And/or you could pop off the Rachio cover to expose the wires and see if that valve is on the master valve terminal.

The master valve should turn on every time another valve is commanded open by the Rachio. It might be that the zone 5 valve is never closing. So every time the master valve opens up (any time any zone is running), water goes right through that stuck open zone 5 valve.

I would physically turn off the valve for your zone 5. Is it the same kind of valve as what appears to be your master valve? If so, then I think you would turn the screw on the top 1/4 turn to the right. Although your pic makes it looks like there is a little cap on it, so maybe you just turn that with your hand. I think that is the bleed screw. Someone else maybe can verify, I don't have valves like that. But first you should find the valve for zone 5 and then post a pic and/or get the brand and model number. Sometimes you can just turn the whole solenoid, others you use the bleed screw.

With zone 5 physically turned off, if everything else is working correctly, then you can focus on fixing the zone 5 valve or its wiring.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

^+1 that looks like a master valve.


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## 12Saturdays (May 13, 2018)

I confirm from both looking at wires inside the Rachio controller and the Rachio app, that this is in fact a master valve.



I've un-buried the valve control box that this zone belongs to (thank you preivous owners for leaving a "map" of the system) and found that the zone valve is not the same as the master valve. The zone valve appears to be a Toro EZ-Flo Plus.





What's the best way to go about shutting down just this zone?


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## RVAGuy (Jul 27, 2020)

Just take the top off and look for junk. If you don't see any, buy a rebuild kit and try that. It's something at the valve because if you have it unplugged and it still passes water, the valve is not functioning correctly. Wiring may still have problems, but at least get the valve functioning correctly first.


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

Try rotating that on/off handle clockwise until there is resistance. Don't tighten it too much.


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

acampinoob said:


> Just take the top off and look for junk. If you don't see any, buy a rebuild kit and try that. It's something at the valve because if you have it unplugged and it still passes water, the valve is not functioning correctly. Wiring may still have problems, but at least get the valve functioning correctly first.


Most likely a bad valve or it just needs to be cleaned.


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## 12Saturdays (May 13, 2018)

Thanks for the insight. I'll start looking into the zone valve and update here with what I find out.


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## PhxHeat (Oct 18, 2019)

Is your last pic the valve for zone 5? If so, that solenoid (thing with 2 wires sticking out of it) looks like it might be shorted (bubbly area).

My personal experience with most ill-functioning valves are caused by the diaphragm being bad. So like the guys said, get a rebuild kit (typically just a new diaphragm and maybe an o-ring).

An easy way to check the solenoid is to turn the zone on while standing/sitting next to the solenoid. You should hear it "click".. If you unscrew it and run the test, you will see it move. No "click" no movement, probably bad.

Usually it's just the diaphragm, but both can be bad.

If you do have to buy both, check the price on a new complete valve VS buying a rebuild kit & the solenoid a separates. My Home Depot charges a few dollars LESS for a complete valve than a rebuild and solenoid. I've done this and just take what I need off the new valve to use for repairs. If I don't use something, I have a spare for another. It has saved me a trip here and there.

☆ side note: TAKE nice clear pics of the valve body and p/n's to compare at the store. It's best to take the diaphragm and solenoid( if bad) to the store and compare. Sometime manufacturers like to "update" designs. ....Differences can be subtle.

.... and if you don't know .... the solenoid wires aren't positive/negative specific. Just make sure to hook them back up to the color wires in the bundle that you took the old one off of.


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## 12Saturdays (May 13, 2018)

PhxHeat said:


> Is your last pic the valve for zone 5? If so, that solenoid (thing with 2 wires sticking out of it) looks like it might be shorted (bubbly area).


Yes, this pic is specifically the zone 5 valve.


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## PhxHeat (Oct 18, 2019)

12Saturdays said:


> Yes, this pic is specifically the zone 5 valve.


The "click" test is an easy check. If it's stuck in the "open" position it'll run with other zones. Usually if the diaphragm is bad, the valve won't open at all. It's rare, but dirt can make the diaphragm stay open .... usually with dirt it won't open.


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## 12Saturdays (May 13, 2018)

Just tried out the "click" test. When I turn on a zone from *another* valve box, I hear water running through this zone 5 valve but not really a "click" sound. Video with sound here - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ISVEZ0RRivo67NtPCoqDVHfXCh2TA8Qe/view?usp=sharing

When I turn on a zone with a valve in the *same* box (to the right in the video below), there I can hear an audible electric click and buzz. Video with sound here - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CQ68x8IZsOON0y5wfYCXfS71w7vX-kVq/view?usp=sharing

Based on what I'm hearing, I'm thinking it's a bad solenoid?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Swap solenoids. If the problem moves, then you have a bad solenoid. If it stays, then you have a problem at the valve.


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## 12Saturdays (May 13, 2018)

g-man said:


> Swap solenoids. If the problem moves, then you have a bad solenoid. If it stays, then you have a problem at the valve.


Did this and the problem did not move - zone 5 still continued to run. Sounds like this narrows the problem down to something in the valve (not the solenoid), and sounds like the diaphragm is the part to start at with replacing.


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## PhxHeat (Oct 18, 2019)

if the solenoid on zone 5 seems to be working then the diaphragm is probably the cause. clean away all the dirt from around the valve and take the top off of it. I don't have toro units, but both my hunter and orbit valves have a diaphragm and a spring inside them. Really only 3 or 4 parts to the valves I've dealt with.


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## 12Saturdays (May 13, 2018)

I took apart the valve and found some gunk on the diaphragm, but otherwise I didn't notice anything in total disrepair.

Beginning pics:









I cleaned up the gunk on the diaphragm, replaced everything...but still getting the same problem.

After pic:



How does the valve actually open/close? Does the diaphragm push "down" and then spin this "flapper" (highlighted in pic below)? Or what it's worth, I couldn't spin this flapper with my hands - would that be normal or should I be able to do that?


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## PhxHeat (Oct 18, 2019)

from another post @acampinoob explains how a valve works very well.



acampinoob said:


> The valves function by removing pressure on the top of the valve when you want water to flow. This either happens when a solenoid opens or the manual part is turned. Check out this small powerpoint from Hunter. https://www.hunterindustries.com/sites/default/files/null/basic-valve-hydraulics-illustration.ppt. It uses the higher surface area on the top of the valve to hold the diaphragm down and shut off flow.
> 
> When you manually turn the solenoid, you pick it up off it's seat and allows flow through both ports and opens the valve. It's entirely possible the solenoid isn't returning to it's seat and should be replaced. It may have gotten crap in it like the rest of the valve. At least check it for crap on the seat.


as for your "gunk" ... that looks like some pretty good hard water calcium build up. I'd replace the diaphragm ... it only takes a tiny hole to remove the pressure mentioned above and allow water to pass freely. Something I don't think was mentioned earlier .... if the manual knob/lever or the solenoid (not screwed in lightly snug) is in the "open" position ... then water can free flow too.


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## RVAGuy (Jul 27, 2020)

> that looks like some pretty good hard water calcium build up. I'd replace the diaphragm


The bottom part of the diaphragm that mates to the valve body needs to be soft and pliable. The calcium and time may have made it tough.

But yeah, if the diaphragm doesn't fix it and swapping solenoids did nothing, you'll need a valve (if you can't clean up the diaphragm seat in the valve body after a new diaphragm). If that doesn't fix it, I'll eat my hat.


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## 12Saturdays (May 13, 2018)

PhxHeat said:


> from another post @acampinoob explains how a valve works very well.


Thanks, this was very helpful.

I have a new diaphragm ordered. I'll give that a try and report back once it arrives.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Check your model of the valve for a hole for water to get to the solenoid section. Make sure it is not plugged with the hard water stuff.


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## 12Saturdays (May 13, 2018)

g-man said:


> Check your model of the valve for a hole for water to get to the solenoid section. Make sure it is not plugged with the hard water stuff.


Does not seem plugged, when I unscrew the solenoid water flows out and up from the valve.


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## 12Saturdays (May 13, 2018)

Replaced the diaphragm. Same problem still exists.

I had bought a brand new valve so next I decided to start at the bottom and replace each piece one by one. First up was the divider...and this was the root cause of the problem. After I got a new divider in, the zone stopped running when another zone ran.

Here are some pics of the old divider for reference.

Thanks everyone for your help!


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

Thanks for following up!


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## PhxHeat (Oct 18, 2019)

Cool that you figured it out. I haven't seen that piece in either the Hunter or Orbit valves used in my system. Nice job..


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

Nice


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