# What Bermuda Seed and Why?



## stogie1020 (Sep 10, 2019)

I am in the process of expanding my current 900 sqft of lawn and the expansion includes regrading the lawn and the expansion area. As a result, I am likely going to be covering most of the current lawn with about 6 inches of topsoil to regrade everything.

I currently have common Bermuda grown from big box store seed, so killing it and replanting wouldn't cause any heartache. Hence my thought on burying the common and replanting.

If you had to start from seed, what seed would you choose and why? Common? Arden15? LaPrima? Something else?


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## Dangerlawn (Sep 13, 2018)

I did a seed reno this year on 3,000 sq ft with La Prima and it was very difficult. I did get full coverage by the end of the season without very many weeds, but it took a lot of hard work and help from @greendoc along the way. The end result is a grass I'm ok with but not thrilled about. It grows vertically extremely fast and loses color in the fall before my regular grass which I assume is Celebration. The color is pretty light as well. La Prima is not a dark green grass. The only thing I really like is that it spreads like crazy. I ended up nuking weeds from 40% or so of the lawn and the grass filled itself back in within weeks.

If I could do it again I would go with sprigs from a hybrid like tif tuf or tahoma 31. If you decide to do it from seed, expect a lot of challenges and hard work to get a good lawn by the end of the next season. Sprigging would be easier and establish faster and allow you to pick a better quality turf grass. Also, know that a lot of the Bermuda you are burying is going to return. Just accept it.

Whatever you do, try to have fun and enjoy the process. You could have a good lawn with any of those seed types, even if it doesn't fully happen in the first season.


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## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

I'm no expert, but I tried a few renovating my lawn, and I loved the Monaco I put down. But I chose it partly for its cold tolerance, which you probably don't need like I do (I'm in the transition zone in north TX). It seems like a lot of people lately have gone with Arden 15 and liked it.

My advice is whatever you choose, don't skimp to save a few bucks. I did that in my larger back yard with a cheaper variety and wasn't happy with the results despite good NTEP ratings. At only 900 sf, even the most expensive seed won't cost much.

I also say that seeding isn't as difficult as many say, especially with only 900sf. You can cover that with one sprinkler. Of course it will take a little longer than sod, but with your long growing season, you'll have a thick lawn by the late summer or for sure by the fall.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

If your going the seed route....then Arden 15.

Its the replacement for Princess 77 Bermuda and has more cold tolerance!

Look at page 8 of my renovation journal and you can see P77, Arden 15 and 419 all mixed in together to give you and idea.


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## stogie1020 (Sep 10, 2019)

I am leaning toward the arden15, but the wife said "how much is the stuff from Lowe's??"

Since the common that is there now will likely emerge even if I bury it, I may decide to just go common so I don't have a soup of common and Arden15.

Not sure....


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

My 2 Cents:

Having done a Bermuda reno from seed (princess 77), the best advice I can give you is..... do it right.
Don't try to take any short cuts. Seeding Bermuda is tough business, so it's best to do everything you can to increase your chances of success. 
I would use Arden 15 seed. @ENC_Lawn is spot on with that recommendation. AND I would definitely put the common Bermuda through a few rounds of glyphosate for a few weeks, then use a sod cutter to get it out of there. Covering the common with topsoil will do absolutely nothing from stopping it. The stuff will survive just about anything.
Check out my lawn journal, because I went down this round last spring. Also, check out @ENC_Lawn lawn journal.
IMO, the last thing you want to do is go through all this work, to only have a yard full of common Bermuda and weeds by summer.


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## stogie1020 (Sep 10, 2019)

Has anyone tried to starve common bermuda of water? I live in Phoenix, where it rains four times a year. As soon as I kill off my overseed PRG, how long would the common last if I simply stopped irrigating? Neither of my neighbors have any irrigation (on had pool deck everywhere and the other has xeriscape with no irrigation).

I wonder how long the Common would last without any water? Could I kill the PRG, prep the new lawn area, turn off the water for a week or two or three, and then put down the arden15 seed and begin watering?


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## stogie1020 (Sep 10, 2019)

OK,just did some reading and it looks like the common will just go dormant and survive for 60-90 days without water...

Glyhphosate or nothing...


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## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

stogie1020 said:


> Glyhphosate or nothing...


Glyphosate and glyphosate and glyphosate and glyphosate and glyphosate and glyphosate. Then hope you've already died or sold the house before you notice that some of the common is still alive and coming up into the new lawn.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Kill it all and replace it with Tiftuf or maybe Tahoma 31.

If you're going to spray it, throw down some fast N, fluazifop, triclopyr, and glyphosate, repeat 3 weeks later, repeat 3 weeks later. Put down sod or sprigs.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> stogie1020 said:
> 
> 
> > Glyhphosate or nothing...
> ...


I can concur on this. Common Bermuda is a beast. There is a reason it is taking over lawns all over my town. It is a result of natural selection. It survives because it has to. Spray it once with glyphosate and it will fill in in a month. You have to go Breaking Bad on it to get it suppressed. I have considered accepting an entire year of spraying it like @Movingshrub describe to even think about seeding or sodding. Droughts do nothing for it as previously stated. Just don't rush the process.


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## stogie1020 (Sep 10, 2019)

Honestly, I didn't hate the common, but have no experience with any higher-end Bermudas. I cannot go a season without grass while I kill off the common, the 2 1/2 year old would revolt. I think I may bury the common under top soil during the regrade of the lawn knowing it will return, and put down new seed (arden15 likely) on top and just let them mix as they both grow...


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

Wouldn't the common on the bottom rob the nutrients from the seed that you're trying to grow?


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## stogie1020 (Sep 10, 2019)

I think it may be just like any traditional seasonal overseed application, some will take and some won't. The common will be less hearty because it will be covered, giving the seed a better chance at getting nutrients from the top two inches of soil (the new soil).


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## Solisesc (May 27, 2019)

Hi guys, I have a question on this. My lawn was common bermuda this year (planted in june 2019, worked really well). I'm now in the process of trying to kill it to plant Arden 15. I have accepted it in my mind that no matter how good I job I do, the common will come back. Questions:

1. Just how different does Arden 15 look from common? Is it very distinguishable?
2. Is the growing rate very different? I usually mow once a week, if they grow at different rates it might look a mess for half a week every time.
3. Has any of you done this, first hand experience with planting Arden 15 after having common?

Thanks for any help


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## berothm (Dec 4, 2019)

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and will be doing a complete renovation this spring. I am in central NC, I have 5000sqft of turf. What are my best options? Unfortunately I can't afford to sod so I'll be seeding. Should I top dress with top soil or sand prior to seeding? I will be reeling mowing just FYI. Y'all help me out.


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## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

Solisesc said:


> 1. Just how different does Arden 15 look from common? Is it very distinguishable?
> 2. Is the growing rate very different? I usually mow once a week, if they grow at different rates it might look a mess for half a week every time.
> 3. Has any of you done this, first hand experience with planting Arden 15 after having common?
> 
> Thanks for any help


Not Arden here, but Monaco, which is of a similar quality. Yes, the better variety and the wild common stuff are definitely distinguishable. (That was one thing I was worried about when I did mine -- is this all a waste of time and money? Is there even that much difference? Yes, there is.) The common in my front yard was pretty much all dead and taken over by the new stuff, but I think some of the old came back in one small area when we didn't get rain for two months and I didn't water quite enough.

It's not an obnoxious difference, though. The Monaco is just finer, denser, and stays green longer in the fall -- pretty much better in every way.

From what I've read here before, the better strains like low mowing more than the common. So gradually the better variety should more or ,less take over. That's my plan, anyway -- that and maybe fertilize the better stuff more often. If I have a patch of common that looks so different that it bothers me, I may just kill it off.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

berothm said:


> Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and will be doing a complete renovation this spring. I am in central NC, I have 5000sqft of turf. What are my best options? Unfortunately I can't afford to sod so I'll be seeding. Should I top dress with top soil or sand prior to seeding? I will be reeling mowing just FYI. Y'all help me out.


Arden 15 if you are going to seed Bermuda.


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

My question would be: what is driving the decision towards seed? Is it just "can't afford/don't want to pay for sod"? If that is the case, I would highly recommend sprigs. Cheap, easier to establish than seed, and you can get hybrid varieties with improved qualities. They're not as tender as seeds, you just have to water and fertilize the mess out of them for 2-4 weeks.


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## berothm (Dec 4, 2019)

adgattoni said:


> My question would be: what is driving the decision towards seed? Is it just "can't afford/don't want to pay for sod"? If that is the case, I would highly recommend sprigs. Cheap, easier to establish than seed, and you can get hybrid varieties with improved qualities. They're not as tender as seeds, you just have to water and fertilize the mess out of them for 2-4 weeks.


Yes, the driving factor for not laying sod is solely cost. I've always had cool season turf and am unfamiliar with spriging. Is this readily available? What variety would you recommend?


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

adgattoni said:


> My question would be: what is driving the decision towards seed? Is it just "can't afford/don't want to pay for sod"? If that is the case, I would highly recommend sprigs. Cheap, easier to establish than seed, and you can get hybrid varieties with improved qualities. They're not as tender as seeds, you just have to water and fertilize the mess out of them for 2-4 weeks.


Faster grow in with seed vs sprigging from the article I read.

However I agree that Sprigging and SODDing hybrids is better than seeding as far as cultivar and quality of Bermuda grass.


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

berothm said:


> adgattoni said:
> 
> 
> > My question would be: what is driving the decision towards seed? Is it just "can't afford/don't want to pay for sod"? If that is the case, I would highly recommend sprigs. Cheap, easier to establish than seed, and you can get hybrid varieties with improved qualities. They're not as tender as seeds, you just have to water and fertilize the mess out of them for 2-4 weeks.
> ...


All golf courses will verticut their fairways a couple times per year, which produces a lot of sprigs. You could probably talk to a local course and ask them if you could have some. Typically they are just thrown away, you could probably get a whole trailer load for free. One of the schools here in Raleigh fraze mowed their soccer field and posted the sprigs on craigslist for free.

Alternatively, sod farms typically sell them by the bushel. @Gibby got Tahoma 31 sprigs and documented it in his lawn journal.


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

ENC_Lawn said:


> adgattoni said:
> 
> 
> > My question would be: what is driving the decision towards seed? Is it just "can't afford/don't want to pay for sod"? If that is the case, I would highly recommend sprigs. Cheap, easier to establish than seed, and you can get hybrid varieties with improved qualities. They're not as tender as seeds, you just have to water and fertilize the mess out of them for 2-4 weeks.
> ...


I did some sprigging last year and it had tacked down and started spreading within 3 weeks. Coverage would be just as good as seed if you use enough sprigs, and the plant would be at a more mature state at the point seed would have germinated. With seed there are concerns about overwatering, washout during storms, birds eating the seed, etc. With sprigs, you basically drown it in water for 2 weeks and a lawn suddenly emerges.

This is maybe 4 weeks after sprigging:


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## Way2low01 (Mar 9, 2019)

Seeding is def possible if you have the patience. I seeded 2 acres with LaPrima XD and while it took 2 seasons to get complete coverage and fill in, it's very dense now.

Good luck and have fun!


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

adgattoni said:


> ENC_Lawn said:
> 
> 
> > adgattoni said:
> ...


 :thumbup: Sounds good!

I read an article from Pennington where the golf course fairways were ready for play faster with seed vs spriggs...but I guess if you can purchase enough sprigs then that could work even faster.

I like the idea of sprigging or seeding.

For smaller areas I would recommend Sprigging or SOD.

For larger areas I could see where seed becomes more manageable as well as cheaper.


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## HarryZoysia (Aug 27, 2019)

Way2low01 said:


> Seeding is def possible if you have the patience. I seeded 2 acres with LaPrima XD and while it took 2 seasons to get complete coverage and fill in, it's very dense now.
> 
> Good luck and have fun!


I would like to know more about your method with 2acres. That's a big area!

How did you prep the area?
What month?
How much seed did you use?
Irrigate or Mother Nature?
How long until germination?
What did you do about weeds while the 'muds was young?

Thank you!


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## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

adgattoni said:


> My question would be: what is driving the decision towards seed? Is it just "can't afford/don't want to pay for sod"? If that is the case, I would highly recommend sprigs. Cheap, easier to establish than seed, and you can get hybrid varieties with improved qualities. They're not as tender as seeds, you just have to water and fertilize the mess out of them for 2-4 weeks.


For my project I chose seed for a few reasons:

(1) Turf quality is a little less important since it's my back yard (front yard is 419).
(2) Cost.
(3) Coming from cool season lawns in the past, I'm comfortable with the seeding process.


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## Way2low01 (Mar 9, 2019)

HarryZoysia said:


> Way2low01 said:
> 
> 
> > Seeding is def possible if you have the patience. I seeded 2 acres with LaPrima XD and while it took 2 seasons to get complete coverage and fill in, it's very dense now.
> ...


Answers attached to the quote. It's def possible and not as hard as some people say. You just have to be committed to it. The 2014 dates on some of the pics are from power outages and being too lazy to fix the time on the camera nvr  Seem to lose power quite often in storms. Hope that helps!


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## HarryZoysia (Aug 27, 2019)

Nice. Thanks for the information. Before the Harley rake, did you use gly or does that take sorta take it to sort?

Yard looks great! I don't think I'd have the will to do that big of area. Heck I don't even own that much


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

HarryZoysia said:


> Nice. Thanks for the information. Before the Harley rake, did you use gly or does that take sorta take it to sort?
> 
> Yard looks great! I don't think I'd have the will to do that big of area. Heck I don't even own that much


Yes make sure you use Glyphosate and remove as much of the old turf as possible.

If you have existing Zoysia grass...mulitple rounds of Glyphosate will be required.

I had a mixture of Common Bermuda and Zenith Zoysia and I sprayed my existing turf with at least 4 rounds of Glyphosate before my renovation.

Then we removed all the old turf opening up the lawn for a nice new seed bed.

You can see these steps in my Renovation link below in my signature.


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

Nice job @ENC_Lawn


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

SWB said:


> Nice job @ENC_Lawn


Thanks!


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

What are you cutting with and at what height?


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## jakemauldin (Mar 26, 2019)

I would recommend Arden 15 as well. I have planted this and it is beautiful. You can go from seed to a lush yard in 60 days. 45 days to get a beautiful yard from roadside view. I would seed about 5 lbs per 1000, it's worth the extra money initially vs going back and reseeding. I would most definitely glyphosate the area 3 times. I Harley raked mine with a skidsteer Harley after glypho and still had a few straggler weeds pop back up. also make sure it is level, the last thing you want to do is get a beautiful grass growing on uneven ground and once you start mowing and get addicted to TLF most likely you'll want to Go Low, uneven ground makes that very difficult. I would invest in a hose bib splitter valve and several hoses with enough sprinklers to properly cover your yard without manually having to move them, every foot step will be muddy (if watered correctly) and risk seed not germinating. I would also buy a Starter Fertilizer to assist with establishment. I would also explain to the wife it will be an investment she will not be mad about two months from seed down. My wife said the same thing about just buying cheap seed and a year later after seeing the results and beauty of this grass she is already looking forward to spring to be able to expand the area we have of Arden 15. Most Wives of TLF members would also agree. Sod is rather expensive and labor intensive. There is always risk of it being uneven if not laid by an experienced professional. I hope this helps with your decision.


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## berothm (Dec 4, 2019)

jakemauldin said:


> I would recommend Arden 15 as well. I have planted this and it is beautiful. You can go from seed to a lush yard in 60 days. 45 days to get a beautiful yard from roadside view. I would seed about 5 lbs per 1000, it's worth the extra money initially vs going back and reseeding. I would most definitely glyphosate the area 3 times. I Harley raked mine with a skidsteer Harley after glypho and still had a few straggler weeds pop back up. also make sure it is level, the last thing you want to do is get a beautiful grass growing on uneven ground and once you start mowing and get addicted to TLF most likely you'll want to Go Low, uneven ground makes that very difficult. I would invest in a hose bib splitter valve and several hoses with enough sprinklers to properly cover your yard without manually having to move them, every foot step will be muddy (if watered correctly) and risk seed not germinating. I would also buy a Starter Fertilizer to assist with establishment. I would also explain to the wife it will be an investment she will not be mad about two months from seed down. My wife said the same thing about just buying cheap seed and a year later after seeing the results and beauty of this grass she is already looking forward to spring to be able to expand the area we have of Arden 15. Most Wives of TLF members would also agree. Sod is rather expensive and labor intensive. There is always risk of it being uneven if not laid by an experienced professional. I hope this helps with your decision.


Thanks for the info, I think I'm leaning towards Arden. I recently killed off the fescue I had and leveled/top dressed, I planted perennial rye for the winter. I will apply a few apps of glyphosate before seeding. Would it be beneficial to top dress with sand before seeding? Also, I'll def use a start fert and have been using RGS at seeding.

Here's what a currently have


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

SWB said:


> What are you cutting with and at what height?


California Trimmer between .5 and .75 HOC.

When it's gets hot or I get lazy  ...I cut my lawn with John Deere Z540 zero turn at 1 inch HOC.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

@berothm

I would not top dress with sand before seeding.

I did that in some areas and it took the seed way longer to germinate than the rest of the yard.

I would assume the sand doesn't hold water and nutrients as well as topsoil did...???....I'm not sure why...I'm guessing...but I know for sure my sanded areas were way behind in establishing.


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## berothm (Dec 4, 2019)

ENC_Lawn said:


> @berothm
> 
> I would not top dress with sand before seeding.
> 
> ...


 👍🏼


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## jakemauldin (Mar 26, 2019)

berothm said:


> ENC_Lawn said:
> 
> 
> > @berothm
> ...


I agree with @ENC_Lawn you would want to stay away from sand. I had some masonry sand that was piled up. I spread it out in an area and that particular spot struggled to thicken up after germination. So a good topsoil leveling is your best option imo.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

You want regret choosing Arden 15 in my opinion.

Here is Princess 77 Bermuda late in the season last year at about 1 inch HOC next too centipede.


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