# How about this Milorganite alternative...



## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

If I can't get any Milorganite in the coming month my alternatives were going to be Ringer or Scott's green max. Ringer is expensive and the coverage is 5k where I need closer to 6.5k. I did find ProScape 9-2-5 with 6% iron that seems like it will get the job done.

Here's the link: https://www.greenviewfertilizer.com/store/p/Lebanon-ProScape-9-2-5-Fertilizer-with-Iron__21-54321.aspx?LineItemId=1bf1db66-362d-4b20-897b-f62401a21a64#.Wy-C6xYpCEc


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Looks like a good option since it has Biosolids in it.

The only thing that drives me crazy with this type of fertilizer blend, is I can never figure out from the label how much of the N is from just the biosolids. Any idea from the label how much of the slow release part is methylene urea and how much is biosolid?


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

I had good luck with ringer last year, but it's $$! I'm going to try soybean meal this fall in its place and see how that works. I believe it's the key ingredient in ringer, although I can't prove that! At $28 for 100lbs it's worth a shot


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## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

Green said:


> Looks like a good option since it has Biosolids in it.
> 
> The only thing that drives me crazy with this type of fertilizer blend, is I can never figure out from the label how much of the N is from just the biosolids. Any idea from the label how much of the slow release part is methylene urea and how much is biosolid?


There's 0.8% urea nitrogen in this. Would this include methylene urea?


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

You may know this already, but:

I couldn't find any either. I ended up buying this stuff:
http://www.claruschoice.com/clarus-products/clarus-pro-landscape-industry/

I mention because they are pretty clear about what is in it. They have other products with different formulations, including 100% organics.

SiteOne caries it... if you have one near you. Upstate NY is a pretty big place but look to have locations around some of the larger towns and cities.


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## ryeguy (Sep 28, 2017)

Not really sure why you'd go with green max as a milo alternative, that's just your average synthetic with iron added to it. Not really comparable to milorganite. Behavior and response wise, Ringer or other organics would be a closer match.


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## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

ryeguy said:


> Not really sure why you'd go with green max as a milo alternative, that's just your average synthetic with iron added to it. Not really comparable to milorganite. Behavior and response wise, Ringer or other organics would be a closer match.


Cost and availability. I have used green max before and liked the results and it's readily available which is why I would use it as a last resort. The Milo alternative I was referring to was the ProScape product I linked.

I did see there is a siteone dealer north of me that is a 20 minute drive (40 minutes round trip) if I want to try the Screaming Green product linked above.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

SpiveyJr said:


> ryeguy said:
> 
> 
> > Not really sure why you'd go with green max as a milo alternative, that's just your average synthetic with iron added to it. Not really comparable to milorganite. Behavior and response wise, Ringer or other organics would be a closer match.
> ...


Screamin' Green is similar to the Lebanon product you linked to in terms of its concept, but one of the main differences is it has a higher N content. Maybe not the greatest thing for the Summer. I use it in late Summer/early Fall.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

SpiveyJr said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like a good option since it has Biosolids in it.
> ...


Looking at the label, it looks like Lebanon lists the methylene urea separately from the regular urea. The asterisks that denote the methylene ureas and biosolids are absent from the urea entry, so that 0.8% urea is just regular urea. Add in the 2.2% ammonical N and you have 3% fast release, which is 1/3 of the total N, but really isn't bad considering how high the iron levels are, and that people probably put this product down in a spoon feeding or light application manner.

The thing I'm having trouble understanding, is how much of the 6% slow release is biosolid, and how much is methylene urea. Also, biosolids themselves have some fast release N (around 25% these days), which you'd think would be listed in the fast release category. But it's not clear if they're listing it that way.


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Green said:


> Screamin' Green is similar to the Lebanon product you linked to in terms of its concept, but one of the main differences is it has a higher N content. Maybe not the greatest thing for the Summer. I use it in late Summer/early Fall.


@Green ever try "Whole Shebang"? Lower in N, slower release and higher in organics? Might be closer to milo.

http://www.techterraenvironmental.com/attachments/073_LABEL%20-%20Nutrients%20PLUS%20Clarus%20PRO%20Whole%20Shabang%20(6-2-4)%20.pdf


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

We can try to figure it out, I suppose.

Let's say biosolids are 6-4-0. This stuff is 9-2-5. Considering the base is biosolids, that means they've added a good amount of Potash, first of all, to go from 0 to 5%.

Let's look at a Milorganite label...photo courtesy of @Pete1313 









There are a few ways I guess we could approach this, but let's try using ratios first.

So, 6-4-0 can be reduced to 3-2-0. (The full rate of Milo for 1 lb of N is: 100/6=16.67 lbs per thousand. That would essentially provide 100-67-0.) If using a 50-lb bag, that rate would cover 3,000 square feet. Half a bag would cover 1500, and would essentially give 50-33.5-0. I doubt they added in more than half a bag of Mio, let's try and see...

But the Lebanon is 9-2-5 (and we already accounted for the 5% Potassium, which was easy).
We know there's 3% fast release and some unknown percent of methylene urea and biosolids.

My hunch is that they might have used no more than a 50% mix of methylene urea to total fast release, because they've done so in other products. If total fast release is 3%, and total N is 9%, that leaves 9-3= 6% N left for both methylene urea AND biosolids. Let's say they split that in half...

But wait, we still have no idea how much methylene urea they've used for sure. So that approach alone didn't work.
What we really want to know, is how much fast release N is in Lebanon's methylene urea. We need a product with 100% methylene to answer that.

It happens that Lebanon makes such a product:
https://www.lebanonturf.com/products/items/2235743/index.aspx
https://www.lebanonturf.com/labels/2235743.pdf

It has 17% N, all from Meth-X, and 14.8% of that is slow release. 14.8/17= 87%. That means 87% of methylene urea is slow release, and 100-87=13% is fast release.

We're going to have to do some guess and check. To be continued later....


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

gm560 said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> > Screamin' Green is similar to the Lebanon product you linked to in terms of its concept, but one of the main differences is it has a higher N content. Maybe not the greatest thing for the Summer. I use it in late Summer/early Fall.
> ...


I haven't. My SIteOne has the Screamin' Green only. Supposedly, they're using OceanGro in their products...


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Part 2:

So, we've got the specs for the methylene urea...87slow/13fast. And it's 17-0-0 (without the potash).

The 9-2-5 has 6% slow and 3% fast, with a lot less P than N.

Let's scale down the 87/13 ratio to as close as we can get to 6/x. 
Roughly 6/0.9 slow/fast

Now let's guess and check.

What if half the bag were made of 17-0-x plus potash, and the other half was 6-4-0 biosolids...
Wait a sec...

Lebanon is in PA, I doubt they're using Milo. Probably OceanGro...
So, that's 5-5-0 for the biosolids.

Half a bag of OceanGro would contribute 2.5-2.5-0. That's close to the x-2-x of the Lebanon. Now we know where our 2% P comes from. Let's see if the rest of the math works out...

At least 3% of the N in the bag is WSN. How much WIN would half a bag of OG contribute? Each bag of OG has 4.5% out of 5% as WIN. Half of that would be 2.25% WIN.

Does that leave enough room for the methylene urea? Let's see.
The 9-2-5 has 6% WIN. 6-2.25=3.75% N from methylene urea.

Let's check that against the total N in the bag and known ratio of slow to fast N in meth-x.
So, we're guessing that the 9-2-5 fert has the following:

9% total N (known for sure)
2.2% Ammoniacal N (known for sure)
2.25% plus an additional unknown amount of WIN from meth-x that we will calculate, but which adds up to 3.2%
0.8% urea of the 46-0-0 type (known for sure)
2.8%-0.25%= 2.55% WSN strictly from the Meth-X

3.2-2.25=0.9% WIN from methylene urea
compared to 2.55% WSN from methylene urea

0.9/2.55=35. Not the correct ratio. (13/87=15)
Doesn't add up right.
Plus, that bag would only weigh around 40 lbs

If I did the math right. If anyone wants to check it, please do.
We could also try it with Milo, I guess.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

We know the 2-2.5% P from Biosolids is non-negotiable.
The only way to get that from Oceangro is with half a bag.
Half a bag of Milo would achieve similar...
Unless they were using the old 6-2-0 Milo...
Or maybe the application rates are different and need to be taken into account. Anyone want to take over?


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## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

I put down a 50 lb bag of ProScape 9-2-5 this past weekend and OMG is it dusty. The granular sizes vary from sand to Milo-sized prills. I put my spreader on a low setting and did 3 passes of my lawn in different directions so hopefully there was uniform coverage. I just can't believe at how much dust this stuff created... at one point i stopped and turned around and saw a small foggy haze over the lawn that dissipated after 10 seconds. My legs and shoes were covered!


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## Mr Efficiency (Jul 4, 2018)

The better Milo like Fertilizer on crack is Screaming Green 16-2-3. I started using the fert last season and it has been working great in my programs. 
Screaming green is loaded with michrobes and milo doesn't have any. Also the michrobes go to work quickly breaking down the synthetic ferts so not much leaches in soil or evaporates in the atmosphere.

I have only been aplying it at 1/2 lb of N per 1,000 sqft and the results have been great.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Is Ringer appropriate for seeding? Would you put it down in addition to starter fertilizer as you would with milorganite?

Also I called around for milorganite and found a few small garden centers that had it in stock. I think they were price gouging due to the shortage. $23 for a 36 lb bag???


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

Mozart said:


> Is Ringer appropriate for seeding? Would you put it down in addition to starter fertilizer as you would with milorganite?
> 
> Also I called around for milorganite and found a few small garden centers that had it in stock. I think they were price gouging due to the shortage. $23 for a 36 lb bag???


That's crazy priced. I bought some milo 2 weeks ago for $9.99. I used scotts starter plus weed preventer and ringer last year at seed down. Ringer is kind of pricy. You could use purely organic. It's like half the price of ringer and looks to be similar. 
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Purely-Organic-Products-LLC-Lawn-Food-5-000-sq-ft-10-0-2/111367413?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222228065784467&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=m&wl3=170052249301&wl4=pla-277468480463&wl5=9022933&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=111367413&wl13=&veh=sem


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## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

I too think ringer is expensive and price is the only thing preventing me from using it. I did see on Amazon 2 bags for $62/65 with free shipping and even at that price it seemed a little on the high side considering the coverage is 5k. Greenview has a bag of "turf nurture" which looks like a ringer alternative but even they want $38 for a bag.

The Screamin Green posted above has me interested and might warrant a trip to Siteone if I can't get any Milorganite for the fall.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

As a thought that pops into my head from time to time every time the question of biosolid fert alternatives come up, dry glass clippings from healthy turf have a typical analysis of 4-1-2 plus all the necessary micros to grow new healthy turf. Why not dry and pelletize that - would basically be the perfect fert. I have to see where my local golf club piles it. My sense is they'd be happy to have someone take it for the asking. They already give away their tree cuttings for firewood.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Delmarva Keith said:


> As a thought that pops into my head from time to time every time the question of biosolid fert alternatives come up, dry glass clippings from healthy turf have a typical analysis of 4-1-2 plus all the necessary micros to grow new healthy turf. Why not dry and pelletize that - would basically be the perfect fert. I have to see where my local golf club piles it. My sense is they'd be happy to have someone take it for the asking. They already give away their tree cuttings for firewood.


That's a cool idea! Didn't know about the analysis. Interesting.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

A store near me sells Ringer for $42.99 with a 40% discount. Final price is $25.80 to cover 5000sqft. This seems extremely reasonable to me (about $13 for 2500 sqft - close to Milo's cost).

Is this a good deal or great deal? If Ringer is as good as Milo (or better) for seeding I will pick up a few bags (more if this is a "great" deal).

I've never purchased Ringer before so I'm not sure on the pricing, nor do I know how it performs for new grass relative to Milo.


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## TLFU (Aug 4, 2017)

Mozart said:


> A store near me sells Ringer for $42.99 with a 40% discount. Final price is $25.80 to cover 5000sqft. This seems extremely reasonable to me (about $13 for 2500 sqft - close to Milo's cost).
> 
> Is this a good deal or great deal? If Ringer is as good as Milo (or better) for seeding I will pick up a few bags (more if this is a "great" deal).
> 
> I've never purchased Ringer before so I'm not sure on the pricing, nor do I know how it performs for new grass relative to Milo.


That's a great deal for Ringer! Mind sharing the name of the place? FWIW, I've used Ringer this year and it has worked well for me (seeded last year).


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Delmarva Keith said:


> As a thought that pops into my head from time to time every time the question of biosolid fert alternatives come up, dry glass clippings from healthy turf have a typical analysis of 4-1-2 plus all the necessary micros to grow new healthy turf. Why not dry and pelletize that - would basically be the perfect fert. I have to see where my local golf club piles it. My sense is they'd be happy to have someone take it for the asking. They already give away their tree cuttings for firewood.


Interesting. If you bag though, you're removing 4-1-2 each time, right? So you're not really adding anything by mulching...just avoiding its removal, at least that's how I see it. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

TLFU said:


> Mozart said:
> 
> 
> > A store near me sells Ringer for $42.99 with a 40% discount. Final price is $25.80 to cover 5000sqft. This seems extremely reasonable to me (about $13 for 2500 sqft - close to Milo's cost).
> ...


Just got back from Metropolitan Farm in Closter, NJ. They are having a 40% off everything in the store sale.

They had 2 bags but I only bought one as the other had a silver dollar sized hole in it. Came to $27.50 with tax 

At least this should provide the organics I need for seeding. A few stores around here (including Lowe's) told me they expect Milo next week but I think it's wise to hedge that bet. It's been hard to find this year!!


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## TLFU (Aug 4, 2017)

Mozart said:


> TLFU said:
> 
> 
> > Mozart said:
> ...


Good deal! Wish they had more. Oh well. Good find. Let us know how it works out for you.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Green said:


> Delmarva Keith said:
> 
> 
> > As a thought that pops into my head from time to time every time the question of biosolid fert alternatives come up, dry glass clippings from healthy turf have a typical analysis of 4-1-2 plus all the necessary micros to grow new healthy turf. Why not dry and pelletize that - would basically be the perfect fert. I have to see where my local golf club piles it. My sense is they'd be happy to have someone take it for the asking. They already give away their tree cuttings for firewood.
> ...


I'm thinking add as in exogenously; never said anything about bagging or mulching. 4-1-2 isn't far off of biosolid based ferts, is actually the right ratio to feed grass, plus grass clippings have all the necessary micros. If I pelletized it and gave it a catchy name, I'd make some $$$. Lemme see - Delmarvanite. Has a nice ring to it :lol:


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