# Lawn just doesn't look good - Need help



## Jmunk (Mar 23, 2021)

Moved in last march (2021), lawn was even worse shape, overseeded this past fall and it looked a lot better. This spring came around and it's just been looking - off. Lots of brown patches, thin grass, and even with two fertilizer apps since May, the grass is just NOT growing. I just put down milorganite two weeks ago, and the grass just isn't blowing up/darkening up like everyone else seems to say it would.

I manually water with a gilmoure sprinkler - I aim for an inch or so a week, including rainfall. So that means I'm usually running the sprinklers for about an hour or so per zone for .5 inches (tested with tuna can). I can't tell if I'm watering TOO MUCH or TOO LITTLE. I try to mow at least once a week, on the highest setting the mower will go. Maybe the 4 trees on the lawn are sucking up the water, and I need to water even more than 1in/week? Let me know what you guys think.

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Pics:

https://i.imgur.com/Eclt15l.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/xI4o3Qj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BiS5r8q.jpg

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Cool season grass, in South NJ.


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## RowdyBrad (Jun 10, 2021)

Maybe do a soil ph check to see if the lawn is taking up nutrients?


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

are there lesions on the grass blades? look on the scotts website for how to identify common lawn fungus

and milorganite is nice if you need to use organic but you will end up applying too much phosphorus and not enough Nitrogen so you need synthetic fertilizer to meet your lawns nitrogen demands


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## Jmunk (Mar 23, 2021)

RowdyBrad said:


> Maybe do a soil ph check to see if the lawn is taking up nutrients?


I actually have a test from amazon - just did it right now. Looks to be between 5-5.5 to me - which I'm guessing is problematic? Funny enough, I put down a lime application 2 months ago. Maybe I need to do another round? Here's the test photos.

https://i.imgur.com/dg2uF39.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dpN2sD4.jpg


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## Jmunk (Mar 23, 2021)

john5246 said:


> are there lesions on the grass blades? look on the scotts website for how to identify common lawn fungus
> 
> and milorganite is nice if you need to use organic but you will end up applying too much phosphorus and not enough Nitrogen so you need synthetic fertilizer to meet your lawns nitrogen demands


Will check for lesions.

Yeah, I know scotts plan has me putting down turf builder summerguard fert in the next couple weeks which is 20-0-8. Any recommendations? Would it even be safe to put that down after I just milo?


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## Jmunk (Mar 23, 2021)

Here's some photos of the brown spots - I'm not seeing any lesions unless you guys are. Just sorta looks like dry grass?

https://ibb.co/j5DjKtg
https://ibb.co/bQ1DLJP


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## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

Dry and compacted soil? Grubs?


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## Jmunk (Mar 23, 2021)

situman said:


> Dry and compacted soil? Grubs?


I aerated the whole lawn last fall when I overseeded. I don't think it's compacted. Sticking a screwdriver in and it goes in very smoothly.

Grubs - I've thought about that. That's why maybe putting down the summerguard with insect control might be a good option? How can you even tell you have grubs?


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## ontheriver 1 (10 mo ago)

Did you get the 40 test kit?10 each of pH, n, p, k,? And don't use tap water, directions mention distilled water


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## macattack (Nov 2, 2020)

Grubs eat the grass roots. Those areas will rip right out of the ground. Then they move on. Your whole front yard is basically tree roots, which suck hundreds of gallons of water and nutrients out of the ground. It's an uphill battle to achieve perfection.


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## pops (8 mo ago)

macattack said:


> Your whole front yard is basically tree roots, which suck hundreds of gallons of water and nutrients out of the ground. It's an uphill battle to achieve perfection.


I tend to agree that it is roots. If you know where everything is at underground you could get a trencher and go like 6 inches deep just to get the surface roots at the drip line on one half of the tree. Do the 2nd half next year.

I do root pruning for golf courses with an imants root pruner. Results are pretty remarkable. Within a couple of weeks there is a distinct line.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Those soil test kits are not very accurate. It's better to get a test from a lab like waypoint or a local extension.

The lawn looks like it's dry and needs nitrogen. I'd do a fast release nitrogen and not milorganite as that's slow release. If you do you'll have to provide enough water as we are getting into summer.


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## ontheriver 1 (10 mo ago)

What about a quick test, double the water amount in the trouble area, in a couple days you should see a change, and I agree the quick test is so-so, but follow directions the best you can including using daylight not a interior bulb to illuminate the results


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## gnojham (8 mo ago)

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert by any means

Seems you have found at least part of your problem get your ph straight and see what happens.

I have that ph tester, along with the nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium testers, and did some research on them before buying and recall that while they aren't as good as sending samples out for test, they are good enough for at least a ballpark estimate you can work with. That being said, I plan to start sending samples out a few times to get my own comparison data.

When I use mine, I let the soil dry then I use a sifter on it, and I use purified water.i think distilled water would be best, but I never get around to buying any.


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## gnojham (8 mo ago)

SNOWBOB11 said:



> Those soil test kits are not very accurate. It's better to get a test from a lab like waypoint or a local extension.
> 
> The lawn looks like it's dry and needs nitrogen. I'd do a fast release nitrogen and not milorganite as that's slow release. If you do you'll have to provide enough water as we are getting into summer.


He said he fertilized twice since may and recently added milorganite, he's watering an inch a week, and has a low ph reading. Seems if it needs nitrogen it could just be because the ph is actually low, no? 
You say the test he used is inaccurate and are assuming it is reading lower than actual, but can't it be reading higher than actual just as easily? And couldn't it just happen to be spot on?

If anything, seems getting a professional sample test done would be a better first step than dumping more fertilizer on it, right?


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

gnojham said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
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> 
> > Those soil test kits are not very accurate. It's better to get a test from a lab like waypoint or a local extension.
> ...


It can be right or it can be wrong. The problem is you don't know being the ph test kits are hit and miss. I doubt his issue is ph related even if it is too low.

The lawn looks under watered (drought stressed) and generally under fed ( low in nitrogen).

At this point I'd try and up the water and see if it helps. If water helps but it still looks under fed I'd give it some nitrogen.


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

Jmunk said:


> … Let me know what you guys think.
> 
> Cool season grass, in South NJ.


Lots of good advice thus far and my thoughts:

1) unless you definitely want a fungal outbreak, I'd hold off on any more nitrogen until this Fall (may just be where I'm at but, nitrogen feeding after March is just begging for fungal issues to raise their ugly heads!)

2) my money is on insects in your lawn munching on your grass roots - in addition to the tree roots basically equating to fire hose quantities only instead of pouring water they are sucking it out of the ground as fast as you can water if in …

3) problem with grubs is many of the bag labels that show or say kills grubs really don't;

READ THIS ARTICLE: https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/how_to_choose_and_when_to_apply_grub_control_products_for_your_lawn

Best o' success!


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## gnojham (8 mo ago)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> gnojham said:
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Ok. Water first and then see what happens seems better than the nitrogen first plan.

A test would also give nitrogen levels too, right? Maybe a plan for op could be send a sample for testing and water while awaiting results and go from there.


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## ontheriver 1 (10 mo ago)

Just read it, the sevin it mentions is the bag I have, but the ingredient doesn't match? Mine is bifenthrin and zeta-cypermethrin


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

gnojham said:


> A test would also give nitrogen levels too, right?


Not usually and it's not necessary to do so.


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## Jmunk (Mar 23, 2021)

gnojham said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
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Lot of great advice here, thanks guys.

I think I'll do this. Might get a soil sample test sent out, and meanwhile, just water a LOT more and see what happens. Realistically, what do you guys think I should try watering at? 2-3 inches a week?

Might try the grub control from Scotts too, but at a later date. Just think for now, I'm just gonna focus on watering more.


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## ontheriver 1 (10 mo ago)

Just double water, that's 2"" and pay attention, do you have surface, standing water while irrigating or is it sucking it up, and then a couple hours later do the screwdriver/ moisture test, damp screwdriver when pulled out, hopefully


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## MacLawn (Oct 26, 2021)

gnojham said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
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Was in your shoes not long ago
1. Get a soil sample off for testing.
I used Umass Extension Service
Look for your local Extension Services
There is also a lot of local growing information at the colleges studies.

2. Whats under the area of that pipe shown in the picture?

Sometimes you just have to stop chasing your tail.
Get the soil tested. In the mean time maybe get some fast acting lime.
I realized after the professional test that I was just maintaining my low Ph and it took a fall and spring heavy dose to get it up to where it is now 
Went from 5.3 to 6.5 .

The soil sample results from Umass Extension gave me guidance on what to do for my lawn needs and that has worked.
I also have been sourcing out draught tolerant grass seeds over the years and have been using Lesco All Pro Teams and it holds up well . I dont water the large portion of my lawn and only water the area right around the house in the high traffic areas .
Good luck and step back and recharge tour efforts.
If hot dry weather has crept into tour area you might just have to keep watering until the test results and cooler wetter weather comes ? .


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## Jmunk (Mar 23, 2021)

MacLawn said:


> gnojham said:
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I agree with the tail chasing. I feel like sometimes, the more you add/change/tinker - the worst things can be. My backyard is an absolute mess (wasn't taken care of before we got here, have dogs dogs, etc). So we planted clover in the backyard with grass just so we didn't have dirt and it's more tolerable etc. I was watering three times a day and that's it. No fert, no lime, no milo, nothing but water. Grass was never greener and more thick, and I barely paid attention to it.


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## mjc440 (Dec 27, 2020)

I've found that using a cheap soil soil moisture meter is helpful. You can check the problem area and compare to places that are growing well.

I've found that the areas near my large trees need about 3x the amount of water of other areas in order to get to reasonable soil moisture levels.

Good luck!

https://www.amazon.com/Sonkir-Soil-Moisture-Tester-Gardening/dp/B07BR52P26


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## MacLawn (Oct 26, 2021)

Jmunk said:


> MacLawn said:
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 You spread out all the dog fert with the watering. 
I have a neighbor whos got a nice lawn and a few talks with him hes always said the same stuff , good seed , feed and water. 
He said took him years to get everything on track. 
He said his number one problem was inconsistent soil types through out his yard and fixing the areas where the water runs off before it gets to soak in.


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## Jmunk (Mar 23, 2021)

Been watering more often since this post, as well as some decent rainfall too. I'm not sure if I should be saying any real significant change by now, but I'm definitely not.

I also figured I would add this too. Here's a picture of my backyard. If we're thinking it's the tree roots sucking up the water, don't we think that would apply to this area too with these two big trees? Not to mention, I almost never manually water the backyard, AND, and this is a doggie backyard. Two big dogs constantly running around, peeing, and pooping. No fertilizer or any applications have been put down here. I feel like it kinda just makes the situation all the more confusing lol.

Backyard: https://i.imgur.com/OEv06dD.jpg


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## gnojham (8 mo ago)

Jmunk said:


> Been watering more often since this post, as well as some decent rainfall too. I'm not sure if I should be saying any real significant change by now, but I'm definitely not.
> 
> I also figured I would add this too. Here's a picture of my backyard. If we're thinking it's the tree roots sucking up the water, don't we think that would apply to this area too with these two big trees? Not to mention, I almost never manually water the backyard, AND, and this is a doggie backyard. Two big dogs constantly running around, peeing, and pooping. No fertilizer or any applications have been put down here. I feel like it kinda just makes the situation all the more confusing lol.
> 
> Backyard: https://i.imgur.com/OEv06dD.jpg


did you send out a soil sample yet?


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## Jmunk (Mar 23, 2021)

gnojham said:


> Jmunk said:
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> 
> > Been watering more often since this post, as well as some decent rainfall too. I'm not sure if I should be saying any real significant change by now, but I'm definitely not.
> ...


Haven't gotten around to it yet - as far as picking who to do it, best to just call my local university (Rutgers) extension office?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You should mow. Maybe at 2in. That's looks way too long.


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## Jmunk (Mar 23, 2021)

g-man said:


> You should mow. Maybe at 2in. That's looks way too long.


Think so? I'm always paranoid of mowing too low and stressing the grass out. Like I said, this is the backyard other than a few spots it's mostly a mess.


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## gnojham (8 mo ago)

Jmunk said:


> Haven't gotten around to it yet - as far as picking who to do it, best to just call my local university (Rutgers) extension office?


sorry, that i have no idea on. 
i will be watching to see what the answer is though.


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## Rxrep (Jun 9, 2021)

Some of the causes of your poor lawn could be:
1) Tree roots sucking up much of the water despite your current watering regimen (which you mentioned as a possibility). 
2) Not enough sun?
3) Compacted soil?
4) Fungus disease?
5) insect damage?
Once you've eliminated or accounted for these issues, I would top dress with quality topsoil late August, and over seed with quality KBG or tall fescue or a combo of them to your liking. I'm in South Jersey too and have a Midnight monostand that does quite well. Good luck.


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## Jmunk (Mar 23, 2021)

Rxrep said:


> Some of the causes of your poor lawn could be:
> 1) Tree roots sucking up much of the water despite your current watering regimen (which you mentioned as a possibility).
> 2) Not enough sun?
> 3) Compacted soil?
> ...


1) Definitely could be as we talked about in the earlier posts. Again, what just makes me confused on this is the backyard photo with two trees doing so much better with no attention being paid to it. 
2) Possibly. Hard to really know? 
3) Aerated last fall - screwdriver goes in nicely. 
4) No lesions on blades, but other than that, I'm not sure how to tell. 
5) ^


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## maynardGkeynes (May 23, 2017)

Not sure if someone has mentioned this, but grass grown in shade tends to elongate. That makes it floppy. I had the same problem under my large tree with KBG. I switched to fine fescue, which is quite shade tolerant. At least it stands up straight. It's not as nice as KBG though. I may tery TTTF this fall in that area.


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## floppygrass (7 mo ago)

My thought is that your overseeding either wasn't enough or didn't take. What I mean is that to me it looks very patchy. I had that same issue with my lawn and the way I dealt with it was painful but it worked. I did mine in sections, so you could do this in a small area and see if it works. I didn't do soil testing or anything, I just purchased some topsoil and spread it over the lawn and raked it in right over the grass so that there was a decent layer. Then I seeded the area. Then I watered that area specifically every day. Then I just watched it every day. You could actually see the grass seed sprouting. Even doing it this way, there were patches where the grass never sprouted and I had to come back over it and repeat the process. Also, you have to make sure you pick the right type of grass. Like it depends how much sun your lawn gets, especially with all the trees there and depending on where the light is coming from.


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## Jmunk (Mar 23, 2021)

Well, soil results came back from the test! Overall, I guess this isn't bad other than the ph. What's crazy is - that value is after I put down an application of lime back in March.

Question: They say to put 130 pounds of lime / 1000 sqft to fix the ph. Does that actually mean we're talking like 300 pounds of lime to fix my 2500sqft lawn? I know they said to split the applications, but WOW. When one bag of 40 pounds says it covers 5,000sqft - do I just ignore that and dump it on?


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## MacLawn (Oct 26, 2021)

Jmunk said:


> Well, soil results came back from the test! Overall, I guess this isn't bad other than the ph. What's crazy is - that value is after I put down an application of lime back in March.
> 
> Question: They say to put 130 pounds of lime / 1000 sqft to fix the ph. Does that actually mean we're talking like 300 pounds of lime to fix my 2500sqft lawn? I know they said to split the applications, but WOW. When one bag of 40 pounds says it covers 5,000sqft - do I just ignore that and dump it on?


Your going to need that large amount of lime to correct your PH , 
Yes its a lot and a lot of work 
Just do what they say , and use the lime they tell you.
My soil PH was 5.3 in spring of 2021 I put down 20/40# bags that spring. Thats all I could find. That brought it up to 5.9 at my Spring 2022 test. So its another 20-25 40# bags this fall (I did 10 already looking for 15 more) to get into that mid 6 range.

Read the bag , most have a chart on them

They are calling for CALCITIC Lime because Dolomite has higher concertrations of magnesium which you have plenty.
So drop 4 bags now and 4 bags in spring and sharpen your mower blades. Soon as the PH comes up your going to be mowing alot come spring !

Im going to gander your soil sample came in pretty darn good because your plants are just not using it up because of the LOW PH

Or you can just plant a bunch of blueberry bushes!


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## Jmunk (Mar 23, 2021)

MacLawn said:


> Jmunk said:
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> > Well, soil results came back from the test! Overall, I guess this isn't bad other than the ph. What's crazy is - that value is after I put down an application of lime back in March.
> ...


Damn. You used 20 bags already? It's unfortunate that it seems ph is a multi-year fix thing. Looks like 8 or so bags need to be ordered for me!

Just to confirm - we're talking about something like this, yeah? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Signature-40-lb-High-Calcium-Pelletized-Limestone-4098/304881486


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## MacLawn (Oct 26, 2021)

Jmunk said:


> MacLawn said:
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Yeah PH is a slow change.
Good thing is with each corrective application your closer to a maintaining amount.
I have 18k sqft and still a bit low.
Im sure 5.9 is "ok" but I would like to get up to 6.5 area and then see what the soil test show the following year then I could get away with a maintaining application of say 10lbs/1000?

It looks like all these years of lime application I was doing prior to a actual soil test was just maintaining a low PH! Fun Stuff


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

That lime could be a fast acting kind, in which case you'd better use only the maximum amount the label specifies for each application. However, the price would indicate it's not. The fast acting kinds are usually around $20 for a bag. Can you find it in person and read the label? For regular lime, dolomitic or calcitic, you can use 50 lb per 1000 sq ft in an application. For the fast acting lime, it's much more limited so you would be making more applications for a longer time. You can also use dolomitic lime if that's all you find that's not "fast acting." You don't need the magnesium but your magnesium is not excessive. Regular lime will activate gradually, some in a few weeks, some not for 2-3 years, so the 130 lb per 1000 sq ft should suffice for a three year period.


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## Jmunk (Mar 23, 2021)

Virginiagal said:


> That lime could be a fast acting kind, in which case you'd better use only the maximum amount the label specifies for each application. However, the price would indicate it's not. The fast acting kinds are usually around $20 for a bag. Can you find it in person and read the label? For regular lime, dolomitic or calcitic, you can use 50 lb per 1000 sq ft in an application. For the fast acting lime, it's much more limited so you would be making more applications for a longer time. You can also use dolomitic lime if that's all you find that's not "fast acting." You don't need the magnesium but your magnesium is not excessive. Regular lime will activate gradually, some in a few weeks, some not for 2-3 years, so the 130 lb per 1000 sq ft should suffice for a three year period.


So this is the stuff I bought here. It is fast-acting lime. Looks like my report says 130 pounds/1000 square foot. The back of this bag says for sandy areas, use 65 pounds/1000 square foot to raise ph from 5 (about my level now) to 6.5. It did say for loam to use 110 pounds/1000 square foot. Honestly, not sure which soil type I have and which number to follow. The soil report also said to split the dosings.

Any ideas? Maybe split the difference and put about 90-100 pounds/1000 square foot?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

If the report says you need 130lb/ksqft of lime, that what you need. You can use regular lime at 50lb/ksqft application every 6 months or follow the bag rate for the fast acting lime (~9lb/ksqft every month?). Regardless of what you use, you need to get to 130lb/ksqft.


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## Jmunk (Mar 23, 2021)

g-man said:


> If the report says you need 130lb/ksqft of lime, that what you need. You can use regular lime at 50lb/ksqft application every 6 months or follow the bag rate for the fast acting lime (~9lb/ksqft every month?). Regardless of what you use, you need to get to 130lb/ksqft.


Gotcha, I guess I was confused on the amount to do PER application. I'll definitely get to 130 pounds either way.

I don't see anything on the bag that says what the limit should be per application. Is 9/10 pounds/ksqft sort of the golden rule for one app? Also, how long is considered an application? Meaning, let's say I put down 20-25 pounds tomorrow. At one point would it be safe for me to put down another 25 pounds to continue on my goal of getting to 130?

Do you think it was a mistake to go with the fast-acting lime? Maybe easier to just dump 50 pounds/ksqft with the non fast-acting? Being that my ph is so low now, I kinda wanted the more immediate effects of the fast-acting especially considering I'm overseeding in a week or two.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

That lime is not a fast acting lime. There are no limitations on the bag like "such and such lb per 1000 sq ft." In fact, if you were tilling it in, you could do all 130 lb at once. For surface applications, don't go over 50 lb per 1000 sq ft. You can apply at 50 lb per 1000 sq ft this fall and again next spring and then 30 lb next fall. Some of it will start reacting fast, some will react in a few weeks, some later on. It will do the job. If you do a fast acting lime at 10 lb per 1000 sq ft, you can do an application two, maybe three, times a year. It would be a number of years to get to 130. You didn't show a picture of the analysis. Does seem to be a dolomitic lime.


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## Jmunk (Mar 23, 2021)

Virginiagal said:


> That lime is not a fast acting lime. There are no limitations on the bag like "such and such lb per 1000 sq ft." In fact, if you were tilling it in, you could do all 130 lb at once. For surface applications, don't go over 50 lb per 1000 sq ft. You can apply at 50 lb per 1000 sq ft this fall and again next spring and then 30 lb next fall. Some of it will start reacting fast, some will react in a few weeks, some later on. It will do the job. If you do a fast acting lime at 10 lb per 1000 sq ft, you can do an application two, maybe three, times a year. It would be a number of years to get to 130. You didn't show a picture of the analysis. Does seem to be a dolomitic lime.


Only reason I assumed it was fast acting is because on the top right of the bag it says fast acting. Is that just marketing? I attached some pictures of the back of the bag with the analysis.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Calcitic lime and it is not fast acting. The label says to apply 50lb/ksqft.


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## EdenMd (7 mo ago)

New at turf management at 71. Where I used to live grass juSt grew well. Now immersed in an environment where you have to be on it all the time. So looking through the replies and pictures. I agree get a soil analysis from a state cooperative extension. I used Delaware because Maryland does not offer that service. It was 17 dollars for the test and about 5 to mail. The process took about 2 weeks to prepare send and get result. It will give you allot of objective information and they provide recommendations re: fertilizer, lime etc. I bought one of those probes to take core samples down to 6 inches for like 15$ Amazon. I would be suspicious of fungi also not saying it is but conditions here were weeks of high humidity, hight temps (85-90s) and overnight 70s. That along with morning dew sets up environment for fungus disease so if you have experienced that then consider fungal disease. I thought I saw some lesions on grass blades but not real definative. For issues of underwatering or overwatering I like to use a moisture meter. I got tired of guessing or trying to calculate the output of my irrigation system and come up with a run time. I found some areas that register dry and other areas wet and some show moist where you want it to be. Different soil, some full sun all day, wind, compaction in some areas etc. So now I just go out and sample several areas with the meter to determine if I am over or under watering. Take the guess work out of it. They only cost about 12 dollars Amazon. I like the single probe ones that only do moisture. If you do arrive at fungus as a cause then develop a treatment program. For most fungus Scotts Disease-ex which is Azoxystrobin is a good broad spectrum but remember fungi develop resistence so you will need to rotate with something like Propicanazole. Certain fungi require other specific products. That said insect damage could also be a cause. Just dig up some samples to see if you have anything going on.


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