# DRENGLISH's Arkansas TTTF/KBG Lawn



## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

Thrower' Down, they said.

Hey all. My name is Garrett. I finally gave in an decided to register and work up the courage to document my journey in growing one man's ideal grass in another's not so ideal climate. If the title was not labeled well enough here it is: I want to grow and, hopefully, keep a lawn of Kentucky Bluegrass here in Arkansas. I live right below the Missouri line in a little town called Mountain Home. We have all the goodness that the transition zone brings and all of its ups and downs as well. As I'm writing we had a tornado watch in our area, but hey thats nothing out of the ordinary.

Before I get too far into this I wanted to thank @Ware and @DJLCN for the warm welcome to the community. DJLCN hooked me up with some TLF swag (hat and stickers for days) when I went out to his and Ware's neck of the woods to pick up a reel mower. I am really really hoping to be able to use this on some bluegrass next year, but in the least for the backyard zoysia. I'll be sure to represent from over on this side of the state 



Anyway, back to grass. I think it was last year that I came across a video by The Lawn Care Nut and got hooked. Something about dominating the neighborhood sounded like a good challenge. Everyone around me has either Zoysia, Bermuda, or Crabgrass....most often a healthy mix of all three. I guess it was the thought of coming home and enjoying the outdoors in our beautiful part of the country but breaking the norm that really got me hooked. I honestly can't say I have seen more than three cool season turfs within an hour's drive. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough - maybe I should just have just stuck with Zoysia...

Here is turf, broken down into basic sections. 
*Front Lawns* (either side of driveway): 90/10 TTTF/KBG (4thMillenium/Traverse II/Regenerate/Bewitched/Everglade*/Midnight*)
*These will likely represent the kbg sown in areas that receive enough sun...most of the front lawns would be considered shaded for half the day and will only contain Bewitched as the kbg component
*Side Lawns*: Same TTTF/KBG as front lawns...I'm actually overseeding a TTTF side lawn this fall which I wont document much of but may be seen in some photos
*Back corner KBG plot*: 60/40 Bewitched/Award  Excited about this one!
*Back Lawn*: Zoysia...not sure what kind, but I'll get into this in the warm season section later next Spring and Summer.
*Drive Way Lawn*: Bewitched/Midnight/Everglade....or maybe a Bewitched monostand...haven't figured this one out yet. I still have a week or so to decide.


7/04/18 - First round of glyphosate + AS + Fusillade II on back corner yard zoysia. Happy Fourth of July
7/11/18 - Second round of glyphosate + AS + Fusillade II to missed areas in back corner and front lawns (healthy mix of zoysia, bermuda, tall fescue, and wild violets



Next several weeks with drought conditions I watered as much as I could to encourage any bermuda and zoysia to come back. The lawns are looking very crispy now and I've had a few neighbors ask "so what's going on with the brown grass"

7/28 - Scalped all the zoysia from the back corner yard and front. Oh in this picture below you see how I killed back a good stretch of the crabgrass lot next to me. I keep it maintained and got permission from the owner of the field to mow, spray, plant, whatever it is I want to with it. First step in domination complete. (Planning some prodiamine night ops out there this Fall  )



7/29 - Started watering heavily again to encourage any weeds in the soil to wake up

8/07 - Hit anything green in lawns with glyphosate
8/16 - Applied some soil conditioner, Humic12, and Air8
8/17 - Rented a core aerator and got quite the workout aerating the entire property except backyard zoysia...I figured it would be best to do that in the spring following some serious dethatching.
8/18 - Added gypsum and Milorganite to the back corner lawn and then dragged the cores along with a truck load of shredded leaf compost/topsoil mix until all was smoothed out.
8/19 - Added Scotts Starter + PreM, Bewitched & Award at a 60/40 rate (only had 1 lb of Award) at 3lbs/1000 to the back corner test plot. I went with PreferredSeed's seeding rate recommendation - hopefully this will work out well. I did mix the kbg seed with SoilMoist Seedcoat after having read good things about it. After all of that I covered it all with a light layer of peat moss and added some M-binder tackifier to the areas that were a bit sloped (my whole property is sloped but it varies greatly...no leveling here just smoothing is what I can realistically accomplish without terracing)


So, I know it may be a little earlier than most on getting kentucky bluegrass seed down...but my work schedule is getting super busy and I had to make a decision to get something done this weekend. I figured the experimental back corner lawn which is mostly out of sight would be the one to start early with in case things go south with it. So I did.

phew. Ok no turning back now. Actually there was no turning back after I sprayed glyphosate back in July. Man that was a long month. I'll keep things updated as I can 

Here we go, let's hope for the best!

- Garrett


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Very cool. Welcome to TLF! :thumbsup:


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

You've been busy. Love the goals and plans.


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## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

@drenglish Looking forward to this! Good luck


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

Welcome to the forum, hope that kbg works out for you. I feel for you guys trying to grow kbg in the transition zones. You will have to be patient with it as it is slow growing. good luck


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

Thanks guys. I'm looking forward to the challenge and hopefully the reward. I woke up this morning and checked on the back corner after we had thunderstorms and 0.5" of rain last night. No wash out. It seems that the peat moss and M-binder really hold things in place.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

A little update and need for advice:

I started seeing tiny seedlings poking through the peatmoss in the back corner plot - so that's great!  I double checked sprinklers and will be back in a few to check on it after a short trip. Hopefully there'll be a nice little sea of green when I come back.

Here are 4 pots that I seeded with the four different blue grasses I have this Fall. I'm keeping these on full sun for now and hoping to see how each performs differently this year and next if I can keep them alive.


Here's where I need advice: I'm getting close to having the front lawns ready for seed down, September 1 being the target, and I have enough of SeedSuperStore's SS1000 TTTF blend - 4th Millennium, Traverse II, Regenerate and enough Bewitched, Midnight, and Everglade to mix in at some ratio. I'm thinking to go with the common 90/10 mix at 9lbs TTTF + 1lb KBG per 10lbs of seed and seed at 8lbs/1000....but then I hear of people going with 80/20 in some cases. Any advantage to 80/20 or would this result in KBG outnumbering TTTF and potentially looking less blended due to less fescue throughout? I want the repairability of the KBG but haven't decided on the right rate yet. Both front lawns get morning sun, filtered midday and then partial sun and shade in the late afternoon.


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## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

@drenglish no direct experience, but I did some reading on it last year when I was still debating a mix and I recall deciding on the higher 85/15 or 80/20 ratio from what I found. It sounded like that gave the KBG more of a presence from folks who've done it before.

Again no experience, but 8# seems a little on the heavy side to me. From what I read, you may want more in the 6# range. Otherwise there's a lot of TTTF that germinates quick and it can begin to outcompete the slower KBG. There's some good reading on ATY if you're interested. Here's one I still had bookmarked. https://aroundtheyard.com/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=11326


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

One thing that helps, drop the kbg first and then at day 5, drop the tttf. You will be giving the kbg a head start over the tttf.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@STL I'll read that link and keep thinking about it. I guess if I wanted more TTTF next year I could just overseed it some and that would get be back to what would be a 90/10 or more. I'm sure I would like the higher percentage KBG but am just unsure of what things will look like as this is my first time around with proper mix. The lb rate came from Drew at SSS - mix 9lb TTTF + 1lb KBG (Seed at 8lb/k) and for 80/20 - 8lb TTTF and 2 lb KBG and Seed at 7lb/k. I'll keep doing some research this week on rates.

@g-man That could work....but the TTTF wouldn't be topdressed with peat then right? Or could you lightly cover it up only enough but not smother out the KBG?


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@Green I read the post from ATY and wanted to ask, if you are the same Green over there, how many lbs/k did you end up using on that Reno and how did it turn out? I read that you decided to go with 80/20 but at want pound on the ground rate?

I appreciate the advice guys and as someone else said the last minute uncertainty "story of my life" haha.

I will say that I DO want to be able to see some Kentucky bluegrass in the lawn and do not care so much about uneven growth rate because a mowing cleans that up nicely and I always enjoy a clean cut after look with a taller lawn. The main interest for KBG is repairability. From what I've read the elite fescues are going to be as dark, if not darker, and potentially as fine bladed. Disease tolerance that's a different story but it can tie on that battle. Irrigation won't be an issue.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@drenglish, I assume you mean the 2013 back reno. You must have read the thread about seed mixes, because I think that's where I posted looking for help. It can be a confusing topic.

I think my final seed mix ended up being more like 75/25, which was maybe a bit too KBG-heavy. It's been 5 years now, and I feel like the ratio is more than 50% KBG, but that was evident pretty early on...several years ago it was clear. It hasn't changed much over time, which is good, because it means both grass types are holding up pretty well. I'm pretty happy with it, though.

When I reseed damage, I only use TTTF seed now, since I know the KBG is there underground and will spread into the thin areas.

Honestly, the TTTF seems darker than the KBG, but my mix is Bullseye, Firecracker LS/SLS TTTF, and America, Rugby II, and Bewitched for KBG. The America is light green, so that's probably part of the reason the fescue looks noticeably darker than the KBG.

We probably seeded too heavily. It was early October, which is too late for my area. We were waiting for a landscape project to finish up. I had a guy I trusted from the lawn division of that company drop the seed. He used a Lesco spreader. I told him the ratio I was targetting, and he got it as close as he could. The day after, I dropped starter with meso and also straw (which I'll never use again...it took me 5 years to pull up about 500 to 1,000 Timothy plants, and I think I've gotten over 95 percent of them now, finally!).

I think I ended up dropping more seed later in the month, but I'm not sure. I do know I had washout 3 or 4 times in the Spring, and I had to overseed each time, until late May or June.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

I would think in terms of 10 lb increments of seed. A 50/50 mix (which you don't likely want) would be 5 lbs each, and it's so KBG heavy that you would have to spread it at like 10 lbs over 4,000 square feet. That would be 5 lbs of KBG and 5 lbs of fescue over 4,000 square feet, or 2.5 lbs of KBG and 2.5 lbs of fescue over every thousand. It would be a KBG lawn with a little fescue in it...not cool.

If you did 75/25, that would be 7.5 lbs of fescue and 2.5 lbs of KBG. I think that's the highest you can get away with, and it'd have to be dropped at a rate no higher than 10 lbs per 1500 square feet in my opinion. That would yield 5.625 lbs of fescue and 1.875 lbs of KBG.

And so-on. I'm figuring out the rates to drop each mix at, by using knowledge about standard seeding rates for each species...2.5 lbs of KBG maximum and 10 lbs of TTTF max, if each were used alone. I'm trying to keep these in mind as I figure out the rates. I feel like the actual rate to drop the seed at, is more of an art, while the seed ratio itself is more of a science or mathematical thing. That's my conclusion, 5 years later.

I did seed each species seperately though...I asked the guy doing it for me which way he preferred it, and he said seperately, because he felt the seed might not stay mixed perfectly in the spreader as it moved.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

g-man said:


> One thing that helps, drop the kbg first and then at day 5, drop the tttf. You will be giving the kbg a head start over the tttf.


@drenglish, no later than day 4 or 5 in my opinion because that's when KBG starts germinating and might be prone to damage (even if you can't see it coming up yet), and yes, you'd want to wait to topdress until that day when you seeded the fescue. You don't have to stagger the seeding, but it's an option.

I like the 75/25 mix, but it's not practical to go any higher on KBG than that. I think anything in the 75/25 to 85/15 range would be good if you want a large KBG presence but still see a lot of fescue in the lawn. It's a tight sod.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@Green You've given a lot of good advice on mix ratios. I'll probably go with what you've advised and have some leftover TTTF for next Fall if any overseeding is needed. You and others have made good points about if one wants to establish any KBG, the Reno is the time to do it.

And good news for the back corner KBG Bewitched/Award reno: we have germination:


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## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

@drenglish Very nice! That looks like it germinated a couple days ago. Shadey back there?


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

Congrats on the germination. I'm excited to see your pots especially the everglade. I had that in my blend last year. Maybe I'll be able to identify it with seeing your pot of it.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@STL I'm sure it probably germinated right after I stopped watching it constantly on Friday. We left for the weekend and came back late Sunday - of course I had to do a night check on the grass and there it was  The back corner is shady. I've never counted the hours of direct sunlight that it gets but it does have some sun and shade across all areas due to two large maples and the house.

@Budstl Yeah man, Everglade is looking good. I can't describe it being different at the moment from the other three I'm growing other than it's the second most compact - first being Midnight. But that could be different degrees of sprout and pout I'm seeing. I'll post an update on the pots probably this weekend when I update on the lawns.


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## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

@drenglish have you thought about feedings much and the route you may go with that? Also, are you going with the 75/25 mix ratio?


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@STL I have. Last year I pushed lots of Milo and only at the very end going into "the pause" I used urea...I'm thinking though that spoon feeding or weekly doses of urea or similar will help push the grass to where it needs to be by end of season. Then, in the Spring and Summer use organics when temperature can better break down the material. I haven't decided when to go with a first feeding for the new lawns. The Fall nitrogen blitz seems to be geared for an established lawn.

I forgot to add: yes, a 75/25 mix is what I'll go with. I have enough Bewitched to incorporate and I might as well use as much bluegrass at the start and save extra TTTF for overseeding next year if needed.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

The back corner lawn is coming along nicely. No weeds, just some mushrooms and (shake my head) some annual rye grass that I threw down a year ago. Must have laid low until now. What a noob mistake. I'll have to pull those guys up in a week or two when it's safe to walk on the bluegrass.










The pots are starting to thicken up. Midnight is still compact compared to the rest, a little early to make any conclusions though.










And today is seed down day for the front left yard. I wanted to get both sides but still have some green invaders to address on the other side of the driveway. So just the left side today. I've been going back and forth on the Seed ratios and decided to go with an 80/20 TTTF (SS1100)/KBG (Bewitched/Everglade/Midnight) mix and call it good at just at or under 7lb/M.

I am bringing in soil today and leveling some areas and I'll drag and roll everything into place. If I could do things differently, I would have brought in the soil a week or two ago and encouraged any weeds to come up but time and budget and some other things got in the way. So far I haven't seen a single weed in the back corner where I used some of the same soil/compost mix. Maybe the tenacity is doing its thing 

I'll update later if I survive all the dragging,leveling, and rolling.


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## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

@drenglish nice job! That coverage looks fantastic. Pots look good too.


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

@drenglish when did you buy your ss1100? Mine had award instead of everglade. Your reno is coming along nicely.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@Budstl Oops. I meant SS1000. So, let me clarify the lawn breakdown:

*Front Lawns* (either side of driveway): TTTF/KBG 80/20. 4th Millenium, Traverse II, and Regenerate + Bewitched and a some Award, Midnight, Everglade*
*Driveway Circle*: 33/33/33 Bewitched/Midnight/Everglade
*Back corner*: 60/40 Bewitched/Award
*Back Yard*: Zoysia of some sort. It butts up right next to the tee off on the golf course so I thought I'd keep it looking similar to their grass. I'm testing reel mowing back there this year and next 

*I bought 1 lb bags of Award, Everglade, and Midnight mostly for testing in pots and for use in the 120 sq foot driveway lawn...any left over will just go into the KBG mixed with TTTF

Here's the front lawn that I just finished spreading and dragging dirt around on. My wife and sister helped get the job done! In a little while I'll go out and finish things up with the Starter+PreM, Seed+Soil Moist, Milo, and Peat moss


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## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

@drenglish are those storms from the gulf supposed to roll through your area?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@STL your area too.


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## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

@g-man you keep my area out of this!!

JK. Yessir, I've been keeping tabs. Not looking great Friday through Saturday.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

If you've got the spirit to grow bluegrass in Missouri and Arkansas, then you deserve the courtesy of no major storms; you've got enough to deal with. So, I've filed a complaint with Mother Nature on your behalf.

@drenglish That coverage (picture at the top of page) is amazing.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@STL yeah the forecast is not looking too great for us later this week, but here in Mountain Home, AR we seem to always have exactly opposite of what three different weather sources predict. So, fingers crossed!

Good news is I've got germination of TTTF on day 3 in the side and front lawn areas below. I need to post a map of my property layout sometime to show everyone how to not set a house on such a funny shaped lot. The lawns are oddly shaped but I'll make the most of it. 


The KBG driveway lawn is going to get a facelift this Fall with some winter annuals...any ideas of what would go well up next to 120 sq feet of bluegrass?



@social port Yeah man, if it isn't a challenge it wouldn't be fun! So I'm determined to give it a try with Kentucky bluegrass and a back up plan of just TTTF...or just let the Bermuda take over my plot and call it good. Blending in with the neighbors would be a lot easier that way.

The coverage in the photo does look good. I'll post one later of the same corner of the yard where I missed a streak when putting seed down. It's not terrible though and I am confident the KBG will fill in when I encourage it too. The back corner is all an experiment and watching it spread and fill in will be fun.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

Quick update on the back corner bluegrass:
It's growing in, but the ryegrass is annoying me. I'll be patient and not walk out there and not try to hit it with chemicals and just hope the first mow whacks off enough to stunt it. Eventually I'll hand pick it all out. Should have never put down annual rye over the zoysia that I had back there.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

Lots of Kentucky bluegrass in the middle of my driveway now 



Lots of TTTF in the front busting through the peat moss 


And last but not least, the pots. I had a little bit of fungus from previous top watering when I got home late from work...I should have known better. I cut that out and started bottom watering which I think helped. Thanks @STL. I've scissor cut the pots twice now and have observed more growth in the Bewitched pot (back left) than any of the other three at this point.


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## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

Can't ask for much better progress than that! Your reno is pretty much textbook so far. Very nice job!

Glad the bottom watering is working out. Once you get the hang of it, it's like putting the pots on auto pilot.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

An almost weekend update:

I'll finish the other side of the driveway with my neighbor tomorrow and start watering. I don't like having one side 2 weeks older than the other but it'll catch up this season or next .

Here's the other side, coming up on 2 weeks from seed down tomorrow:



The back corner KBG plot is going to get its first cut tomorrow at day 27. Aiming for 1.5" for the first few cuts. I might go a little higher since I'm using a rotary to start and then (hopefully) the California Trimmer after the turf thickens up. I'll also start feeding it urea. My wife picked some up for me on her way out of town. I called about a dozen places and found one that had a 50lb bag for $14. I can't wait  to start feeding the lawn.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

*Day 28* from seed down and got the first mowing at 1.5" on the back corner Bewitched/Award mix. I planned to do this yesterday but got too busy with finishing the front left renovation area and had to travel out of town. Anyway, after mowing the back corner ever so carefully, I cleaned things up a little with a leaf blower and sprayed urea to put down the first spoon feeding at 0.25 lb N/1000 followed by some irrigation just to be safe.

Man it felt good to mow down the ugly annual ryegrass stalks that I'm still shaking my head at. They were so ugly I don't even want to post a picture here. Good news - Tenacity lights the annual ryegrass up nicely at least in one area I tested outside the lawn.



The front reno areas are going to look so good compared to everything else in my neighborhood. I'm trying to be humble but I am totally going to dominate the cup-de-sac this season (and hopefully the next several). Here is the front left that I finished prepping and got the same 80/20 TTTF/KBG mix in the ground yesterday. I offered to my neighbor to do the whole shared area and he liked the idea so earlier this summer that became set in stone once the round up and Bermuda Soul Stealer mix went down. Thanks to @social port for that 



So, things are bit all over the place with the lawns all at different stages...but things will be synchronized hopefully by the end of this season and a bit easier to keep track of. I probably won't go into tons of detail about each lawn area in this journal just maybe something interesting I did or have a problem with and need advice on. My fault for starting all the lawns (front left, front right, side overseed, back corner, driveway bed) at different times but it's the best I could do with being slammed this time of year at the pharmacy where I work. It's only going to get busier this Fall, so the lawn is definitely my stress reliever :thumbup:


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

Man that looks great for day 28. Good color too. Where did the annual rye come from?


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@Budstl the back corner was previously zoysia, weeds, and bare dirt so I overseeded it in Fall of 2017 with some annual rye to keep things green over winter (I wanted something green to play with). Big mistake, not all of it germinated and it stayed out for an entire year until I started this project. Just a testimate to proper planning and thought for more than the immediate NOW in anything you do.

Yeah, the growth and color has been good. You can't see it from the photo but there's a streak where I either missed putting down enough seed or it got washed out. I plan on letting it naturally fill in or transplanting some plugs in the spring.

I'm looking forward to pushing the color this season with FAS and I'm sourcing a small amount of PGR as well. @STL @Budstl You guys using PGR and FAS this season on the new grass?

This afternoon I'm going to prune up the three big trees in the back corner to allow more light to hit the grass. Two big maples and 1 cedar on the neighbor's side that I have permission to prune.


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## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

@drenglish not me. I'm just gonna concentrate on getting everything established and call it good for this season. Next year I probably will though.


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## NoslracNevok (Jun 12, 2018)

Wow, looking fantastic and good job using specific grass for each area. I love the center grass portion, makes a great center piece. Is you address lighted? Looks great as is, I'm thinking of lightning my mailbox and other areas, would really bring things to a next level. Keeps the updates flowing, subbed!


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@NoslracNevok Thanks man. Yeah the sign and mailbox area is lit up. I need to revamp the lighting game this Fall or Winter but it does help with the curb appeal 

A little update folks:

This is old, but per request of @social port here is the front right lawn on Day 20:

And Day 34, don't mind the foot prints ;P Also, the strip between me and the empty lot has since been seeded with some K31 in an effort to hold soil and help make a natural barrier between me and the salad bar next door.


Here's the back corner KBG experiment, and I'm getting loads of weeds growing in with the grass...going to plan a tenacity blanket app soon:


And last but not least, a birthday gift to myself. And before anyone says, you can't mow TTTF with that - I'm not. I have a Zoysia backyard that is currently being cut at 1" with a California Trimmer. I haven't shown the zoysia yet and at some point I plan on mowing the back corner KBG plot with a reel  Thanks @wardconnor and @Ware for getting me in to this next level of lawn care. If things go well this year and next, I might consider a complete reel mowed turf at my next house (a few years down the road).


I haven't cleaned the John Deere yet. My first day off from work I'll get some motorcycle cleaner as @silvercymbal recommended and get at it on cleaning and servicing the engine. I got the mower from a guy who bought a golf course a few hours from me.

Everything runs, the reel and bedknife are in great shape, has a grass catcher and a groomer. $200


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Great gift. FYI, I mow my no mix at 1in (TTTF in it).


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@g-man I saw that in your journal and it looks good too. We'll see. I bet you don't have a 12-15 degree incline down the entire front drive for 170 feet though. 
Have you done any leveling or smoothing to your no-mix?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

No leveling yet. I'm adding some topsoil at the borders on the concrete to get it even.

My front has an incline but only 20ft.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

Well, the moment I've been dreading: I found some Bermuda that has sprung back in the lawn areas that I didn't completely kill off with the glyphosate/Fusilade II/Triclopyr mix earlier in the Summer. So I have options, and need advice. Should I:
1. Carefully brush on the same mix to exposed Bermuda? (I want to avoid any damage now to surrounding grass)
2. Wait to see what Tenacity can/will do/ or identify by bleaching.
3. Wait for Spring to start any herbicide use?
4. Any other advice or better options?

Also, I'm currently troubleshooting two areas where my sprinklers are not providing good coverage/or where slopes are causing runoff and grass starting to shrivel a little. I ran a soaker hose for a while last night and the grass looked better today. I'll keep at it with the slow soak until I can condition the soil.

Later this Fall or maybe spring I'm going to get geared up for better irrigation and will probably switch to MP rotators on spikes. I'll probably make a mobile water sled with pvc for moving around or consider using an oscillating sprinkler if I can find a good one to fit the bill. I got some really good ideas from the forum so far on "hybrid" above ground manifolds using in ground solenoids valves. I might get a setup going with a Rachio if I catch one on sale this Fall.

The picture below is the area where my yard is the narrowest and the area on the empty lot I'm renovating. This is one area that doesn't get irrigation currently, so soaker hose rehab it is.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

drenglish said:


> Well, the moment I've been dreading: I found some Bermuda that has sprung back in the lawn areas that I didn't completely kill off with the glyphosate/Fusilade II/Triclopyr mix earlier in the Summer. So I have options, and need advice. Should I:
> 1. Carefully brush on the same mix to exposed Bermuda? (I want to avoid any damage now to surrounding grass)
> 2. Wait to see what Tenacity can/will do/ or identify by bleaching.
> 3. Wait for Spring to start any herbicide use?
> 4. Any other advice or better options?


Well, Dang. That is terrible. How many apps did you use in this area?

This is just a suggestion: 
No to 2 and 3. 
4: I wish. Pylex? No, not really, as it is a multiple app product.

Either paint with your combo mix and let be -- especially if you have KBG surrounding this area
or
Paint with glypho (with AS and NIS) and then put down fescue seed -- especially if you have TTTF surrounding this area.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

Well...this area is on the side of the house and somewhat the least important to me so I chose not to hit it with a blanket app to kill everything. I just hit some Bermuda as I saw it and didn't follow up with apps. It was overseeded and not renovated...but anyway, lesson learned there.

I think I'll carefully paint some glyphosate +fusilade with AS and NIS tomorrow. I wonder if I put a cone of paper around the Bermuda plant(s) to keep any chemicals from touching and smoking the surrounding grass.

If any Bermuda pops up in the renovated lawns this year or next, what herbicides would be best for use with Kentucky bluegrass in the mix?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

drenglish said:


> If any Bermuda pops up in the renovated lawns this year or next, what herbicides would be best for use with Kentucky bluegrass in the mix?


That is a tragic situation germane to trying to grow bluegrass in a place where, traditionally considered, it does not thrive. I have the same dilemma on the horizon.
Imagine getting that bluegrass established and healthy and then losing it to a bermuda invasion. Painful.

As far as I know, you are in relatively uncharted territory. Herbicides such as Ornamec--which is safe for fescue, but harms bermuda--are a question mark for bluegrass. I've seen the question asked several times, but I've never seen a definitive answer as to how safe Ornamec is for bluegrass.

My approach is the extreme one: Kill the bermuda with every complementary weapon. Desirable turf dies in the process, but full clip is the way I like to deal with bermuda. Spray once, cry once  (But I do wonder: Might destroying bermuda in a KBG lawn be less consequential than in a TTTF lawn? Spreadability might be used to your advantage. But the timing makes that tricky, e.g., kill the bermuda in late spring, and you are left with N apps to enhance spreading in the KBG going into summer).

You could also look into J4C11's more modest approach of using propiconazole and a broadleaf herbicide to control its growth (stunting, not killing).

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=750 (propiconazole)
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3735&start=20 (see his post on broadleaf herb. on p.2)

There is a lot of good reading in that second linked thread, though I remember most of the discussion being around TTTF rather than bluegrass.

Edited to add: 
One other thought: Acclaim extra might provide a suitable alternative if you are looking for selective control and are too wary of ornamec. I do believe Acclaim is safe for KBG; however, you might be getting suppression rather than eradication for the bermuda. I see @g-man occasionally referencing a study that combined Acclaim, Tenacity, and Triclopyr (??); that might offer a better chance for a kill, but if you are running three herbicides on your bluegrass, then the question of safety naturally comes to mind.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

social port said:


> As far as I know, you are in relatively uncharted territory.


Yeah but that's part of the thrill. Everyone keeps asking me man what kind of grass is that because everything else is lime green..and my renovation is just a month old. If I can keep it alive, and deal with a little Bermuda and be the only one bothered by it...I'll be ok with that. I think I'll try to get one or two Fall treatments in on what sprigs I do see and start being aggressive this Spring too with careful brushing on the grass and using a shield or cone for a few hours until it dries. I can deal with that for a year.

I am really interested in the propiconazole discussions you linked. I'll read up on these tonight. And start strategizing. I appreciate you sharing a few options.

Here's a picture from this morning after mowing with the California Trimmer on the little bluegrass driveway lawn:


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

drenglish said:


>


Hmmm. I don't know, but I think I'm seeing a LOTM contender here.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

social port said:


> Hmmm. I don't know, but I think I'm seeing a LOTM contender here.


Hah. Yeah, just the little lawn. I'm actually going to plant the rest of the bed out tomorrow with Pansies for this Fall and get it cleaned up. Maybe if there was a category for smallest lawn.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

I sprayed the first Tenacity on the renovated lawns at 4oz/A. There's been a lot of Henbit popping up in the back corner so I decided to go ahead and spray and pray.

Day 52 for the back corner (I just realized how junky the back yard looks with flamingos, a bbq grill, and a pile of brick on the side. I can explain the grill - I moved it to power wash the deck. The other items, no excuses there).


And the pots are growing super thick. I got some of those cool grass scissors that the #lawnrebel uses in his video on maintaining edges on the turf. They sure make snipping the pots a lot easier.



Here's something that I was too frustrated to post about this but decided to since I think I may have temporarily won the battle.....

Raccoons came to visit the other night:



Me. Raccoon now lives several miles away now out in the country.


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

Lawn and pots are looking great.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

Yesterday I finally got to some winter annuals I'd been wanting to try for a while. Mostly pansies for now and I'll update progress photos as they take off. I planted a nice group in the driveway lawn and by the street. Here's the little lawn after being tidied up a bit:



And here it is this morning after the mail lady drove over it to deliver a package: :evil:


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## NoslracNevok (Jun 12, 2018)

The center spot looks real cool, can't say it enough, reminds me I need to plan some winter annuals. You plan on bringing it up to her?


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

NoslracNevok said:


> You plan on bringing it up to her?


Oh I've been waiting in the shadows for two days now for her to show back up. Haha :twisted: just kidding. Yeah in good time. I've sanded the indented area and it's already growing through nicely. Not too worried. I really do enjoy the little slice of green the driveway lawn provides. It's fun to mow with all. Reel and I'm really looking forward to spring annuals in the bed below the grass. Probably petunias. I appreciate you liking it so far. It really has come a long way from being a weedy eyesore to clean and minimal.

Go check out the garden centers for some pansies this time of year. I just bought a tray of 60 little plugs for $20 and filled up the bed by the street with a solid yellow. Looking forward to it blooming like crazy here in a week. I've started fertilizing with what Ward recommends for annuals. He's got a good video on what he uses.


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## JP900++ (Aug 24, 2018)

Never noticed your pebbles and numbers. Like it a lot.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@JP900++ Thank you. I used cedar fence posts ripped into thinner planks to make the sign and the numbers and pebbles at Home Depot and Lowes.

Well, the Bermuda next door is turning it in for the season. I sprayed my second app of Tenacity recently, right at 2 weeks after the first post-em application. I have noticed a little bit of bleaching, nothing a few mowings won't take care of. The weeds are looking sick though. I'm waiting to see if the wild Violets take a hit or not. It might be a delayed response since they are a bit tougher than the henbit that I'm seeing.
I'm about to apply the 6th weekly dose of nitrogen at 0.25 lb N/M....and recently incorporated Ammonium Sulfate in the mix.

Anyone have advice on spraying Air8 at this point in the growing season?



The blotchy looking areas in the photo are a bit misleading...just footprints. I've noticed most of the bleaching from Tenacity is actually in the tire track lines left from the last mow.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

It's that time of year when I get tired of seeing and mowing leaves still left over from Fall. I was in Florida last week...further south the The Lawncare Nut himself and man I was getting the bug! The St. Augustine everywhere was around 5" in most lawns and I was jealous.









Anyway, back to my lawn...

I put down Prodiamine last week at 2/3 the max yearly rate for KBG since it's in the mix with the TTTF. I'll apply the remaining 1/3 in 7-10 weeks in mid May-June.

Last week I also put down RGS at 6oz/M and Screamin Green at 0.5lb N/M. 









Above is a picture from today after fighting a mountain of leaves that blew in from a storm last night. I've been impressed with color all year long with the blend of TTTF/KBG I put in this past fall. Let's hope it holds through Summer


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2019)

Nice! Guessing it was just leaf cleanup and you haven't mowed yet this year?

I used to live in SW MO, a couple of hours from you and have a lot of family over there. It is where I bought a 50lb bag of Kentucky 31 I still have in the garage today and overseeded a couple of spots in the backyard, LOL and I think it was like $25 - https://nixahardware.com/product/ky-31-tall-fescue-lawn-grass-seed/

I'd love to retire around Bull Shoals or Tablerock Lake. One of my favorite parts of the US.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@macdawg Yes this area is beautiful. Table rock and that area has grown quite a bit and has it all. I have some land up near the upper buffalo where I plan to build and level out for lots of easy mowing  That K31 sure is some stout grass.

I ran the mower to mulch leaves and bag a few thick areas but never saw any grass clippings. I bet with our upcoming weather the grass is about to wake up in a week or two. Really looking forward to it.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

The weather has been just about perfect the past few days in my area. I've been watching the sunshine from work and counting the hours until I can get home to get out on the lawn. It felt good to get out with the reel the other day for the first time this year - I did a little maintenance on the machine before running it - those Honda engines are great, no problem starting on the first pull.









Yesterday I cut the Liriope aka Monkey Grass down with the push mower on its highest setting...3.75". Speaking of, I'm in the market for a push rotary this year with a little extra height. Toro makes the Super Recycler that cuts at 4.25" which fits the bill.









My winter annuals are blooming like crazy. I've been following the strategy that @wardconnor laid out in a video last year and it worked well last year resulting in rapid recovery this spring. Really looking forward to the petunias that I started indoors and getting them in some pots and in the ground in the next month or so.









Last update: I started some Bewitched, Everglade, and Midnight plug trays this past fall and am just now getting them in the ground. Their roots look a little crazy, hopefully that's not a problem as it can be with some potted plants. I have some larger 9" pots with 10+" roots coming out the bottom. Super excited about Kentucky bluegrass this year...I'm going to give it my best to keep it alive and healthy here in The Transition Zone!


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

Everything is coming to life! We got 0.7" of rain today and it's looking like another inch tomorrow.

I need to get some GrubEx down soon - I found a large grub the size of a quarter while planting some grass plugs the other day. What about existing last instar grubs - GrubEx stops them early in the cycle correct?

The grass colors all look different as I took these photos right at sunset with low lighting, but even the lawn areas that are 80/20 TTTF/KBG are a good color match to the bluegrass only test areas.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

I think last night may have been the last evening we will dip into the 30s. The next 10 days are all in the 70s/50s. Not bad.

This weekend I spot sprayed a 2,4,D 3-way (spectracide lawn safe product) that I got last season for $1 on a clearance rack. I see some violets popping up again. I despise these little fleshy weeds and need to start early tackling them. I'll probably start with Tenacity and be patient. If that doesn't work I'll step it up to some Triclopyr. I have a strong formulation called Crossbow that's meant for brush so I might just dilute it or carefully brush it on the plants. I've got the time 

I'm trying to commit to a midweek mow this year because last year I barely got once a week mows in and it wasn't enough. New turf, new discipline.

Today I'm going to spray PGR for the first time and am excited for at least color and density results after a few applications. Not sure what to expect for reduced mowings since I plan on maintaining at 3.5-4" for now but fewer clippings will be nice too.

First PGR (half label rate 0.35oz/M)/FAS slurry coming right up!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@drenglish I recommend trying the www.greenkeeperapp.com to track your pgr applications.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@g-man Thanks for the reminder! I actually registered a week ago and put in a dummy application at 0.4 oz to watch the GDD accumulate....say I wanted to apply a half rate to start - the website should account for different rates resulting in different max GDD of suppression?

I'll play with the website a bit more. I set "area type" to "rough" to account for the majority of my lawn area being 3"+


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It will adjust the gdd to the rate you used. Hoc is not that important (greens is different than the rest). I reversed engineered their threadsholds last year.

You can use it for a lot more than pgr. It helps with the correct t calculation of tank mixes for prem or herbicides.


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## jjepeto (Jan 27, 2019)

Hey @drenglish your lawn and driveway area flower/rock beds look amazing. I'm curious what HOC you're going for in your TTTF/KBG mix areas. I'm also doing tall fescue and kbg blend in the transition zone, but my primary cool season area is pretty shady. I'm currently mowing around 2.75" because I don't like the feel of it much higher.

I saw in another thread you mentioned "bluemuda". I've been thinking about overseeding my Bermuda area with KBG but it gets full sun so I'm afraid the KBG will just die in July/August. Interested in what you're thinking about that as well.

Good luck this year, I'm following along.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@jjepeto Hey thanks! My favorite area is right at the entry way to the driveway as it has the most color. I'm hoping to transform the sides and back yard over the next few years with more cut in beds and places for annuals.

I am currently cutting the TTTF/KBG mix at 3", I think. It's the second from the highest setting on my Troy-Bilt 21" mower. I like that height but I might have to raise it as we go into summer. I'm looking for a mower with more max height just to have that option. My current maxes at 3.75"

So, bluemuda...I've been cutting the little lawn that's a KBG mix at 0.5-0.6"....not sure how long that will last me. But, it's a fun experiment. All of this "reel low" madness has rubbed off on me and I'd love the challenge of a high maintenance athletic cut turf...just not at this house. I've got plans for it down the road and may actually experiment somehow before then with my current property. Reason being, Bermuda is king here around this part of the state. I might as well not fight it forever, but I'd be lying if I'd say I am ok with my lawn looking crispy and brown all winter.

Sure I can overseed rye and kill it off come spring but I doubt I'd have the will to do that every season...especially the killing part.

I expect some die back with the KBG, how much? Maybe if I'm lucky, just dormancy. Not sure yet but I'm willing to find out to cross something off the list that I have a fair chance.


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## jjepeto (Jan 27, 2019)

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the thorough response. So are you cutting that .5" KBG with a reel mower?

I've got some big rocks around that I'd like to use similarly to how you have them in the flower beds. Good stuff.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@jjepeto Just get some help moving any "3 man boulders"...I pulled some muscles pretty bad last year trying to manage moving and unloading the ones I have and it set me back for a solid week.

In a few weeks my ornamental grasses will have grown in...really looking forward to those complementing the rock, flowers, and turf.

I have a California Trimmer that I mainly use for any low cut areas (backyard is zoysia) and a John Deere 220A that I'm cleaning up to use in the back if possible. That thing is a beast! Makes me really want a flat level terrain and not this hill that I'm on.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

That's looking spectacular! Really, really, dark blue-green. Very nice for this time of the season.

If you haven't picked up that SR yet, a Snapper Hi-Vac or Ninja mulcher is another option. They top out at 4" and have several different blade options (I have 4 blades), for different tasks. One nice feature is the optional side discharge chute. I deal with a lot of leaves in the fall and can turn deep piles into dust without stalling, with a Gator blade and side discharge chute.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@Chris LI thank you! In the next few days I'll post an update while the tulips are at their peak. I'm really liking the deep green color that this mix has shown so far. I'm told bluegrass darkens as it ages too. Looking forward to that (if I can keep it through summer). I applied PGR + FAS the other day - I bet that will kick in and make things even darker here real soon!

Thank you for the mower suggestions, I'll check them out tonight. I have not purchased the Super Recycler yet. It does max at 4.25" which is a plus...so does the Time Master, but that's double to price :shock:










I pulled up some bluegrass runners that made it under the metal edging in this bed and out the other side into the flowers. I'm pretty impressed with this grass so far. I still can't pull that old Jonathan Green TTTF clump by the sign that survived my roundup app last fall. It's growing in a sliver of soil and doing well with out any attention. Might as well leave it for now.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

I see the JG clump as a badge of honor. We all have at least one ***** in our armor. It helps us remember our "roots" (bad pun, I know). Mine was Watersaver RTF (and a couple of acres of Barenbrug's Turf Saver RTF, at work).

FWIW, the Ninja blade for the Snapper is a supreme mulcher and has virtually no lift, so the grass blades "lean" over and are slightly longer than 4". Sorry if I'm a pest with the Snapper endorsement, but I do enjoy the versatility of mine. If I had it over to too it again, I would choose the Ninja mulcher over the Hi-Vac, because I think it would give a cleaner mulch cut. The difference is in the deck design. The Hi-Vac has a rolled lip deck (inwards), which creates incredible suction. The Ninja deck is flared outwards, which mulches better. All accessories are interchangeable, so you could get the bag and bagging blade.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

I know this is my cool season journal, but thought I'd show a picture of the backyard zoysia that's waking up after scalping it down to 0.5" recently.










For the cool season turf I really wanted to get a mow in this weekend but we had 0.7" of rain Friday night and 0.8" Sunday morning.

So instead, I cleaned up lots of debris pulled weeds here and there and cleaned up flower heads with my daughter. She's learning how to scout out tree leaves and stuff that doesn't belong in the lawn like this little guy:


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## testwerke (Apr 4, 2019)

drenglish said:


>


Love this picture!


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Curious to see how all of the different grass types perform on your property throughout the year. I've considered doing a plot of Zoysia on my property but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I don't have a reel mower so not sure I could keep it looking as good with my rotary mower so just sticking with my cool season grass for now.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@testwerke Double Dark they call it. 

Got my midweek mow in, and am still cutting the little lawn at 0.6"










And cutting the main front and sides at 3"










Cut the back at 0.6" with the California Trimmer, and then rolled the John Deere out for the first time this year. It runs, it cuts, but man it's a different machine than the Trimmer. That rear drum makes for a smooth ride for sure.










Other than the insanely high pollen count to make the day exciting along with 40 MPH winds, I got to watch my elderly neighbor's son scalp the side that I renovated for him last year... . He made two quick passes and that was that. Had no time to even react. Oh well it'll recover, I hope.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@ksturfguy

The first two years at this house I cut the backyard zoysia at 3" and it looked great. Super thatchy, but looked lush.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

This morning my 2 year old daughter and I planted some Wave petunias. This would be my first year growing them. I'm also trying some varieties by Proven Winner and just some Lowe's branded ones to compare throughout the season.

While I was at it, I redefined the bed edging and put fresh mulch in.

As far as the lawn - tomorrow I need to spot spray a follow up application of Tenacity on some grassy weeds and hit a few violets with glyphosate. I cannot stand violets. I got rid of 99% last year...it's the 1% that reminds me that all it takes is one season of being relaxed and they'll be back in full force.

I keep a meticulous log on my phone of all products I apply. I'm staying somewhat light on what I'm including here just to not update all of the boring details. I'm alternating RGS and Air8 every 2 weeks during the growing season and I am due for a second app of T-Nex in the next few days. I think the GDD tracker is pretty neat and so far so good with the first application.


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## FORT (Oct 26, 2018)

@drenglish Your lawn is no joke! I like flowerbeds as well. I've been so focused on the lawn I haven't planted any flowers. Looks like I know what I am doing this weekend!


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@FORT Thanks. I'm really enjoying the challenges and rewards along the way. Flowers are relatively new for me in the past 2 years.

This weekend you should go get a few annuals that you like and get them planted out! Not sure about your area, but we are past our last frost so I'm planting any chance I get to get the beds to fill in. I'd like to see what you can do. Are you going to cut any beds in around your shed or back driveway?

Here's a photo from yesterday after cutting all the turf with my new Toro Super Recycler. Man this mower is a step up from my Troy Bilt. The personal pace is so nice and smooth and works very well on my hilly landscape. The cut quality is the best I've seen with any push rotary that I've used and leaves were just disappearing as I rolled over them.

The tulips by the street are on their way out, but the pansies just keep on blooming. I'm trying to decide on when to pull them out and replace them with petunias for Summer.










* there are reflections that make it appear as if the lawn is brown or discolored in some areas....it's just my truck window


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

I intentionally allowed my last PGR app to exceed the recommended reapplication target date based on GDDs from greenkeeperapp.com and sure enough, I could see that surge of growth start back. Pretty neat. Not to mention to Poa annual seed heads....I will address this annoyance in the Fall with Prodiamine, unless there's a smarter strategy.

Going forward I'll stick to the target reapplication dates as suggested. Last evening I applied T-NEX at 0.4 oz/M up from 0.35 oz on the last one. I also added in FAS, this time with some citric acid first and no rusty orange Fanta solution! From what I'm understanding, it's chelated now? Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

The AS in the mix was increased a little to deliver 0.1 lb N/M for a little spoon feeding, and to round it all off and make life a little easier in the next few weeks I included my first round of preventative fungicide - Azoxystrobin. We have lots of rain this next week and things are warming up. I don't know if it's too early, but there's a good chance I'll miss dosing it later as my wife is due with our second daughter in a few days. 

I've been making lots of trips to the local nurseries looking for different annuals to try this year. Petunias (Wave, and Supertunia, Impatiens (Sunpatiens), and wax begonias are on my list this year for landscaping. Already have a few beds cut in and planted and have several more for the back yard over the next few weeks planned out. Lots of fun.

The highlight of my day yesterday (and BEFORE spraying all the lawn chems) was sitting down on the grass with my daughter and Mom and my sister. They really enjoyed the turf and mentioned how cool and soft the ground felt and it was then that I knew that hard work is paying off.


__
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## testwerke (Apr 4, 2019)

Congrats on your second! Hope everything goes well with delivery!


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## jjepeto (Jan 27, 2019)

Gotta be one of the best combos of lawn and flower bed designs on here. We expanded and improved our garden beds this year, but instead of spending more money on perennials we put in front yard veggies and a bunch of petunias. Next year we'll get the good plants. Do you know the names of all of your perennials and grasses? The ones in the area by the street with the rocks are so nice.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

That turf color is incredible! Great contrast with the flowers/landscape


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@testwerke Thank you! We are very excited for the little girl!

@jjepeto Man I appreciate that. It's been a lot of trial and error with the perennials. I lean towards grasses, and my wife leans towards Hydrangeas and Azaleas up by the house I bought a few two summers ago, when Lowe's was clearing out all remaining inventory for $1 a plant. The plants looked beat, but came back strong the following Spring (2018).

By the boulders I have a few Blue Fescues. Four I grew from seed and one 'Elijah Blue' I bought from the nursery. It's considerably bluer and fuller than the rest. I've trimmed them three times this spring to keep them nice and "round". The two bigger green ornamental grasses are Northwind Switchgrass. I love these - they grow upright and you can probably see from previous photos last Summer how big they get.

The variegated grass is a solid one too, and flares out a little. The ground cover growing in areas of the mulch is a mix of Sedum. This stuff can't be killed. I had it growing on concrete last year all through Summer and Winter just fine! There's a lot more of it close to the asphalt by the mailbox side.

There's A few yuccas growing by the mailbox. I pulled these from a ditch along side a highway. They flower nicely and seem hardy enough. To mirror the Blue Fescues on the other side, the mailbox bed has 3 Blue Dart grasses. They came back strong this year, so that's a plus in my opinion. Other than the annuals, I wanted low maintenance in the front beds - so grasses seemed the way to go. I cut them back heavily in the late winter/early spring the same time I cut the Liriope hedge along the driveway to the ground.

@Scagfreedom48z+ Thank you! I love the colors this year. Yellow seems to work great, but I'm giving pink and purple a try too for Petunias and Impatiens this year


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## jjepeto (Jan 27, 2019)

drenglish said:


> I lean towards grasses, and my wife leans towards Hydrangeas and Azaleas up by the house


This is exactly our garden tastes too. We ended up with 3 azaleas, 2 hydrangeas, and 0 grasses


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

Well, today is the first day in about a week that we have a break from the rain or constant drizzle! I went out a few minutes ago to assess a few areas and make a plan for some much needed cleanup and mowing today and discovered what looks like rust, maybe?



















I see what looks like a little bit of leaf tip burn from my PGR/FAS application about 10 days ago - but I see these little "rusty" spots along the blades in this back area of Bewitched and Award Kentucky bluegrass. I've never seen it before so I'm not sure if that's what it is.

I have been pretty lean on N this spring, and I did just get some Carbon X in the other day. Looking for input on what this could be, it's not widespread just yet.

Edit: I have Azoxy, propiconazole, and thiophanate-methyl for my fungicide rotation and can use these at treatment doses as needed. I'll get a better look at things once the grass dries out a bit more today so I can make a better decision on what direction to take.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The best test for rust is to use a white paper towel. Clean the leaves with it. If there is a orange/rust color in the paper towel, then it is rust. But your images look like a leaf spot (gray or regular I cant tell).


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@g-man Well, it's not rust. We have several days of upcoming rain...hopefully things will improve thereafter. I am considering a treatment dose of propiconazole since I have granular and that would be easy enoUgh to apply.

After reading about leaf spot, I'm seeing that slow growth can be problematic. I've been using PGR and don't want to get the lawn out of regulation right now. High and low N levels can add to the problem. It's been over 50 days since my last significant nitrogen addition (0.75lb/M from Screamin' Green)...


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

After a week of rain and flash flood warnings around us, it was nice to finally have a solid afternoon in the lawn mowing and making debris disappear. I sharpened my blades for the first time on my Super Recycler and mowed at 3.25", a step higher than 2.75". I also pulled out my other push mower and did some cleanup on my neighbor's empty field of salad which was about a foot tall.

I went ahead and treated the areas in the back showing some disease with propiconazole. Even some of my annuals in great locations for growth have taken a hit after all the rain.

And last, I'm going to see what this Carbon X can do! First app (and last N application before Summer) at 3lb/M went down today. I'm hoping the biochar magic helps hold this color well!


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

drenglish, I used to fly fish for rainbows on the white and norfork rivers. Beautiful area where you are.

Wish I could tell you exactly what you have but I can assure you it is NOT gray leaf spot. Two reasons, 1) gray leaf spot is a fall disease on cool season turf and 2) it does not affect KBG. It can be a devastating disease as I found out last year. Wiped out a huge chunk of my juvenile tall fescue stand. Made a video of it. Skip toward the middle if you want to see what GLS looks like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAPTQXge25s


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@tgreen It sure is a beautiful area. I haven't fly fished the White River yet, but I have the upper buffalo with a tenkara fly rod. Lots of fun for small blue gill.

Thank you for the video. I watched it all, and I am back to the drawing board. Tomorrow I'll see if I can find some more blades to grab photos of.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@drenglish I'm really not reliable for disease ID, but my money would be on leaf spot/net blotch.
@tgreen . Nice video. I never realized how much GLS looks like brown patch. It makes me wonder if I have made an error in past brown patch IDs in my own lawn.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

social port said:


> @drenglish I'm really not reliable for disease ID, but my money would be on leaf spot/net blotch.
> @tgreen . Nice video. I never realized how much GLS looks like brown patch. It makes me wonder if I have made an error in past brown patch IDs in my own lawn.


making a positive id on fungus without a lab can be tough. As far as brown patch vs GLS, my experience is the lesions are different. GLS is much more pin point spots vs brown patch that is typically a larger lesion and does not have the same circle definition. On any single blade of grass this doesn't work b/c multiple GLS lesions can coalesce to look like brown patch and similarly, you could have a random brown patch lesion that looks like GLS. The other huge clue is time of year. In my experience, brown patch is much more a summer disease. While GLS is really not evident until August at the earliest and really September is obvious. Note that GLS is not a common disease, particularly on TF and usually coincides with high temps in late August and September. A couple other less obvious tells of GLS vs BP is the corkscrewing effect that I tried to show in the video as well as the 'fish hook' appearance of the tip die-off. Here is another vid I did on that


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

How are you liking the carbon x?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@tgreen That is helpful information; thanks. Very nice video as well. I like the way you compared/contrast with other diseases.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@iowa jim

So far, so good. Here's 7 days after 3lb/M of Carbon X. Utter domination. One of my neighbors asked why I had two colors of grass referring to the 10 feet wide strip of now TTTF "charity strip"/ "weed buffer" that I renovated in the empty field). I let him know it wasn't receiving the "good stuff" that my lawn gets. The application was easy enough. I believe it was setting 7 on my Scott's spreader for a one pass thrower' down. I let the rain water it in.

Speaking of rain, PGR has been such a game changer for me this season with all of the rain we've had. I've literally had more free time for other things...not that mowing isn't fun 




























PS. Look beyond the pansies that are past due for being replaced with petunias!


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Is that "charity strip" TTTF or K31 Fescue? I thought I saw in a previous post you seeded it with K-31 but didn't know if that changed. But wow what a color deference.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@ksturfguy I should have gone back and clarified that. I originally thought it was K-31 by barenbrug but I did get a response from their website and it's a TTTF mix. Nice fine blades along side my TTTF/KBG but not much color with minimal input. It was a big 50lb bag from Menards that my parents had in a shed from a year prior.

Last week when we had nonstop rain you could count the fungus rings every 3-4 feet up that strip. None on my side except some leaf spot in the back on the KBG...I can't find any noticeable fungus areas on the bluegrass as of yesterday.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

Turf is looking good going into June. Ok 90 days to survive until Fall. I've replaced a few winter annuals by now with petunias, impatiens, and begonias. Almost enjoying the flower beds more than the lawn.

I'm sticking to recommended application intervals of PGR based on GDD. So far, I've been able to work up to 0.45oz/M of T-Nex without ill effects. FAS along with each app of PGR, and now applying at 4oz/M and applying in the evening and rinsing off in the AM. Also keeping the fungicide schedule going (rotating through azoxystrobin, propiconazole, and then thiophanate-methyl). Neighbors side strip of TTTF was getting obliterated with dollar spot the past two weeks. Back yard zoysia and golf course we're getting hit heavy last week with rust. First time I've seen it and I knew immediately what it was.

Wave Petunias just blowing up:









Backyard zoysia area looking nice and dark after second app of PGR and FAS:









Some rust on my zoysia that came up overnight. It's gone now - Azoxystrobin and some urea knocked it out:









Close up of little driveway lawn - Midnight, Bewitched, and Everglade mix









Last but not least, front lawn area and ornamental grasses. I need to trim up those blue fescues!


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## jjepeto (Jan 27, 2019)

Still looking great! Did you fertilize the petunias? I hand tossed some Milorganite around ours and they took off a couple weeks later.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@jjepeto I fertilize all the flowers weekly with water solubles (any all in one will probably work well). I've lately been using Proven Winner's flower food for convenience instead of alternating a 20-20-20 and a bloom or "P" heavy fertilizer. I did put Milorganite in and around all the beds before planting.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

Mid June update:

Grass is still green, and flowers have filled in their beds. I think next year I might expand on the flowers a bit. I've found only a few heat stressed areas, so I decided to drag out the hoses for the year 

I missed my last PGR app by about 3 days and have yet to apply it - I almost want to experiment with it and see what a difference it as made as I'm sure it'll surge out of regulation here soon. Any negative consequences other than just needing to mow more frequently? Again, I haven't reapplied but am thinking of waiting a week or so.

Untreated TTTF on the neighbor's side is getting destroyed by fungus - I'm keeping on schedule with my fungicides this year. It is right to the line with my yard!

Ladies and gents this is what a big box store bag of TTTF, low maintenance/no maintenance looks like in the transition zone. Not my lawn, but a charity renovation I did to keep the neighbor's Bermuda held back. It's neat, you can also see the lack of Prodiamine in this strip: see all the Ash tree seedlings sprouting literally right up to the line but not beyond it!


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## testwerke (Apr 4, 2019)

The flowers have filled in really well! Always enjoy reading your updates.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

3 weeks later...cool season mix is still doing alright. A month and a half to go until more agreeable weather, but so far my expectations have been surpassed with my lawn renovation.



















A few noteworthy pointers on what seems to be working:

1. I'm mowing as high as possible. 4.25" on areas that have TTTF and 3.75" on any KBG only areas (back corner).
2. Lawn gets watered 2x a week minimum 1/2" each time. 3 if I can get to it and if no rain that week. Remember, I'm dragging hoses around here.
3. No heavy Nitrogen since May 5 (Carbon X) (and only N now is through low amount added to FAS/PGR mix.
4. RGS/Air8 monthly
5. Stay off lawn and focus on working with flowers/ornamentals. 
6. I have not skimped on the fungicide rotation this year. I am using 3 products and so far any disease pales in comparison to what's happening on other cool season turfgrasses around town.

No secrets here, just common sense + some extra stuff that might help push cool season turf a little further south...


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

drenglish said:


> 3 weeks later...cool season mix is still doing alright. A month and a half to go until more agreeable weather, but so far my expectations have been surpassed with my lawn renovation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, that is looking outstanding. Also, I wouldn't call that common sense. It sounds like a lot of smart strategy and a well-informed plan for surviving summer.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@social port Thanks man. Lots of good advice and information for planning the renovation and carrying on came from this forum and people like yourself.

Correction to my above post: 1/2" watering each session during the summer, not 1/5" inch. Now that would be bad if that's all I was irrigating!


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## sanders4617 (Jul 9, 2018)

Looks great! How does it look now heading into August?


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@sanders4617. Things are starting to get crispy in some areas. The Bermuda and zoysia lawns around me are needling up in large patches...so if that tells you something. I'm impressed that my Bluegrass mix areas haven't gone dormant yet. The KBG/TTTF areas are maintaining a much darker color than the bluegrass only stands (back corner, and driveway lawn).

FWIW: I haven't mowed in about 2 weeks, I've let me PGR apps go long overdue, and I've not applied FAS in close to 30 days. Trying to stay off the lawn at this point.

Bewitched & Award:









KBG/TTTF Left Side (see the heat stress on the hill slope? This is my neighbor's side that I renovated at the same time as mine, but I had been mowing it until he had a lawn crew come out and decimate his property and scalp the bluegrass and fescue down to about 1.5-2". Instant browning).









Driveway lawn. I wanted to see how long I could maintain a sub 1" cut going into summer. It was the first lawn area to show stress. It's been coming back with lots of water. I wanted to test this through the end of next Spring to watch KBG's repairability.  









Trees are shedding bark and leaves all over the place.









And finally, a comparison picture to 2 weeks ago. A little stress on the slope, but man those petunias sure draw the eye away. They're asking to get run over growing out in the road like that!


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

@drenglish how's everything looking?


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@Budstl really good considering how rough August was with lack of rain. I'll update the thread with more info a little later on what all I'm doing to the lawn this fall, but right now it's thick and green and needs to be mowed  I recently put down 0.75lb N/M from CarbonX and plan on hitting the iron here in a few days when the weather cools.




























Lots and lots of leaves already falling from the heat. Not fun.

Here's my backyard zoysia being reel mowed:


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

Everything is looking good. I like the look of that zoysia. Those petunias look great. I might try those next year. Any sort of maintenance to them?


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@Budstl They're Supertunia Vista Bubblegum. They were more expensive than the Lowe's or HD generic ones but way worth it. I used recycled soil from winter annuals and spring tulips for bedding and 5 pint sized plants went in the ground with proper slow release osmocote or similar. Early on I would fertilize every other watering with a light water soluble (whatever I had - miracle gro, proven winners, etc). In mid to late August they quit producing flowers so I cut them back heavily. Probably at least 50% and resumed with weekly fertilizing. Amazing flowers. I'm mixing the colors up next year but these sure turn some heads when people drive by.

One thing I would recommend is drip line irrigation for flowers. I always hated watering and seeing the flowers look real sad for a few hours afterwards. These bounced back, but a lot of my other ones would droop quite a bit after too much water/rain and with my busy schedule sometimes the only chance I'd get to water would be in the afternoon...probably not ideal.


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## bencrabtree27 (Jan 8, 2019)

How about an update!


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## estcstm3 (Sep 3, 2019)

What are you using to keep such a nice "crispy" edge to your lawn?


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