# Going Reel!



## MNReel (Jul 18, 2018)

Hey all,

So I finally got the Toro GM1000 running and cutting paper after getting the reel sharpened, new bedknife and had to replace the clutch. I have a couple questions. We are going into a cooling pattern soon in Minnesota. I'm already cutting at 1.25" inches scalping the yard in a couple of areas with my Recycler. I'm planning on setting my HOC at 1" this year and next spring start it out at .75" right away. I know when i cut below 1" I get that nasty yellow stalk on the KBG. I'm wondering do I push the grass with some higher N to get it to shed that stalk or do i drop it down to .75" the first cut and then raise it to 1" and cut the rest of the season like that? Also, this came with the grooming reel. Does this help or hinder? I saw that @wardconnor does not seem care for it.

So excited to produce that fairway lawn!


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## OnyxsLawn (Mar 15, 2018)

Congrats on getting a great new mower! First do you have the ability to dethatch before dropping the HOC? If so that will help and do that first. Second, your lawn will likely look ugly for a week or two regardless of what you do once you drop the HOC. Pushing N will help it grow out of it. Also, keep in mind a bench HOC of 1" will produce an actual cut of around 1.25" anyways depending on conditions. so, if you're looking to have the grass at 1" I would set it 1/8 or 1/4 lower depending on how thick your grass is and your front roller.
As far as the groomer goes try it out both ways and see what produces the best cut. I have the problem that with a fixed rear drum there is no way to adjust the angle of the bed knife so cutting at 1" its not very aggressive and it misses a lot if I don't stay on top of the mowing so I wish I had a groomer to help stand the grass up before it gets cut. the toro might not have this problem. Ultimately you aren't going to hurt your grass that much if its already at 1.25" so go for it and post some pics of the results!


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

^+1

Getting rid of the dead brown debris will make a big difference. Then cut it with the reel. I would set your HOC to 0.75" for the first cut then feed it nitrogen. As Onyx mentioned, it's going to look terrible for a couple of weeks. There is no way around this. Your grass just isn't used to being that short. It will bounce back and green up.

I have been cutting under 1" since June. I haven't been able to cut for the past week and right now my backyard is around 1.5". Because my grass is used to being maintained under 1", I'm going to take it all back down to 7/8" in one shot tonight. It will look fine after. Yours, however, will not look fine after your first cut! But it will get better.


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## MNReel (Jul 18, 2018)

Thanks @Harts and @OnyxsLawn! I do have a sunjoe dethatcher that i typically use the verticutter attachment on but i may switch to the power rake attachment and set it to 0. Then cut and drop some liquid fert on it. Not sure how much more of a growing season we have here in MN but hopefully we can extend it out to Halloween. I would like to see it look lush and green prior to winter and know I'm starting off next year with a solid start. Looking to renovate 1/2 the yard next spring or fall which so I will make sure to post some pictures of this year and keep a log on here of next years transformations.


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

MooreGreen55020 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> So I finally got the Toro GM1000 running and cutting paper after getting the reel sharpened, new bedknife and had to replace the clutch. I have a couple questions. We are going into a cooling pattern soon in Minnesota. I'm already cutting at 1.25" inches scalping the yard in a couple of areas with my Recycler. I'm planning on setting my HOC at 1" this year and next spring start it out at .75" right away. I know when i cut below 1" I get that nasty yellow stalk on the KBG. I'm wondering do I push the grass with some higher N to get it to shed that stalk or do i drop it down to .75" the first cut and then raise it to 1" and cut the rest of the season like that? Also, this came with the grooming reel. Does this help or hinder? I saw that @wardconnor does not seem care for it.
> 
> So excited to produce that fairway lawn!


Push it down to 1/2" or 5/8" and then raise it up to .75" or 1" This will be your go to height. Yeah its gonna look like crap at first... but just push it and push through it and it will green up and look amazing.


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## MNReel (Jul 18, 2018)

Thanks @wardconnor. I got an accu-gauge coming this weekend so will set it to 1/2 inch and then throw down some liquid fert and Milo then bump it up to 3/4 inch. Excited to log the process of renovating the majority of the lawn and fixing a lot of the issues.

Personally want to thank you Connor for inspiring people like me to enjoy what a lot of people view as a chore!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would do a 1/2in scalp right before winter. I just dont think there is enough time to recover.

@wardconnor has a YT video of scalping the backyard I'm the summer. It took a couple of weeks to recover, but that was summer and the backyard. I think in MN you might have a month of solid growth left.


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## MNReel (Jul 18, 2018)

@g-man the grass is still growing at about 1/2" every 2 days. But that is something I definitely need to consider. Thanks!


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## RyanH (Sep 11, 2019)

I just did the same thing and went for it. Long story short, I moved houses from my awesome hand made KBG lawn that I started in 08' to the current house we're at with a rough, bumpy, pine tree loaded yard. We're building a long term house next year so this place barely gets cut when it needs it. I can't save it and it's not worth it.

Anyway, somehow I found one of Mr. Wards videos last fall while in a YouTube wormhole one evening and here I am with no nice yard and a toro greensmaster 1000 that I wiggled from the local golf course. They have a triplex for the greens now, and had two walk behinds so I got one for $1000 CDN (about fifty bucks US$ I'd guess).

So like I said long story longer, my parents have a decent lawn and I took about 1000 feet of it and took it down to 3/4" with the greensmaster. Like the boys said, it looks terrible. Better now after a week or so, but just go for it. It will get better, but will be pretty brown the first go. I'm using this as a test run for the real lawn we do at the next place.

I kind of made a depth of cut jig. I could be way off on this, but I took a nice straight board (wood guy by trade)and drilled a pan head screw in it and measured exactly 3/4" from the board to the underside of the head. Then I hooked the head on the bed knife and brought the bed knife up until it just hooked on the screw head gently. The screw was in the middle of a 20" board and both ends rested on the front and back rollers. It's easy to check all the way across. Maybe I'm an idiot, but I think that should be close if you don't have a fence Gauge.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

@RyanH not an idiot at all.

Check this out.

HOC Bar on a Budget


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## MNReel (Jul 18, 2018)

@RyanH thanks for sharing your story! I know I have some major bumps in the yard which is the number one reason for the renovation next year and the fact my neighbor threw out K31 seed and go it in my yard. I tried pulling it all but I keep finding small clumps everywhere. I also have a birch tree that around the base the previous owners threw bark on top of the grass so I need to dig that all out and get some river rock over there. I want to go 100% KBG (I'm thinking Mazama, Award, and Midnight) I have a couple areas that get shaded almost all day. Next year will be a test to what I've learned from Ryan Knorr, John Perry, Connor Ward, Brett Goodyear and Mr. LCN himself.


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

MooreGreen55020 said:


> Personally want to thank you Connor for inspiring people like me to enjoy what a lot of people view as a chore!


Bag the milo and use something like a carbon x or simple Ammonium Sulfate with a bag of humic acid or some liquid humic from next or kelp for less. While I do like milo, it takes forever to break down and activate especially in a cooler climate like MN. Much more cost effective to ditch the milo as well.

The accu gauge is a nice thing to have for sure. I am so glad that I just bit the bullet and went for it. It is well worth the money.

Last thing... Mowing low is easy, you just have to commit to is and stay on top if it. If you really want it to look the best in the neighborhood, then commit and mow it as often as you can or have the time for.

SOOOO much fun.

as @g-man man said... I did scalp my back yard lawn around memorial day in 2018. I took it from 3.5-4 to .5 It took about a month to recover but it it just fine with water, fert and regular mowing. This is actually something that I would receommend for someone wanting to just go for it and get into the game. Yeah it looks bad at first, but in the end it all works out.


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## MNReel (Jul 18, 2018)

@wardconnor I just ordered some Simple lawn solutions (soil hume, and the nitrogen and potash 15-0-15). I'm going to take Sunday to spend a good portion of the day in the lawn mowing, feeding, and then after mowing i'm going to map out the areas I am going to need extra leveling mix (planning on using 40% top soil and 60% sand). I'm going to go for it and plan on mowing every night after work for the next 2-4 weeks. I just watched your video where you took you back yard down to 1/2" from I believe you said 2 inches. you said you mowed it at 1/2" for a couple weeks and then brought it up. Can you explain why you kept mowing it that low? I'd imagine it's to train the grass to start branching off at that height instead of giving it the extra 1/8" - 1/4" when you to branch out at so that it creates a thicker canopy.


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## MNReel (Jul 18, 2018)

Also, @wardconnor this mower has the grooming reel. In one of your recent videos you tried it out? How do you like it? I know you weren't impressed with it at first but after that video I haven't seen it on your GM (your most recent video). Did you remove it?


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

MooreGreen55020 said:


> Also, @wardconnor this mower has the grooming reel. In one of your recent videos you tried it out? How do you like it? I know you weren't impressed with it at first but after that video I haven't seen it on your GM (your most recent video). Did you remove it?


I think it helps with quality of cut and is a nice thing to have, but you can still achieve a great cut without one. I tend to use my reel mower which has the groomer than the one that doesn't, but the other reel mower still cuts really nicely.......I just like the newer mower better


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## MNReel (Jul 18, 2018)

@zeus201 from my understanding is that it serves 2 functions. It lifts the grass up after being rolled over and it also cuts a few blades while trying to lift it. Is that correct? I'm just going by the design of it and the way it appears to mechanically work.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It does lift a little and it tries to cut the stolons (on Bermuda). On a cool season lawn the benefits are less. If you set it really low, you can "dethatch". I like using mine.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

MooreGreen55020 said:


> from my understanding is that it serves 2 functions. It lifts the grass up after being rolled over and it also cuts a few blades while trying to lift it. Is that correct? I'm just going by the design of it and the way it appears to mechanically work.


It does help with lifting blades before they get cut, but a lot of what I have read it helps open up the canopy, promotes more vertical growth and denser stand.

I do think there is some benefit having one, and with my reel mower, I can run the groomer in reverse direction. I do notice it pulling out some dead material out of the canopy, especially when seed stalks died off. I have wondered if we are getting the full effect of grooming when compared to warm season turfs and their lower HOC....

However, hopefully someone else with more experience chimes in to provide any further clarification.


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## MNReel (Jul 18, 2018)

@g-man and @zeus201 the idea of using it to lift dead material out of the canopy is an amazing ability. I don't think cool season lawns would see the benefit of cutting stolons since we don't have that but just keeping the canopy clean is a nice touch.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

I think the groomer/GTC/FTC has some benefits on cool season lawns. Maybe it increases density, it might give a cleaner cut, but I like it for two other reasons. 1) I mostly mow without baskets and the groomer assy helps disperse the clippings into the canopy, giving a cleaner finish without removing clippings and 2) it helps clear away leaves in fall so the cutting unit doesn't just roll over them leaving uncut grass.


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## MNReel (Jul 18, 2018)

Thanks @Pete1313! The only thing I'm looking for is a grass clippings basket for this mower but at the time it doesn't have one so this would maybe help me get over my "hatred" of lawn clippings on the yard. I usually make a clippings tea or I throw it in a compost bin. Same reason I wanted to go to reel mowing and started researching it. I can't stand grass clinging to my feet. So if this can push the clipping into/ under the canopy and reduce the amount on the surface I may be a very happy man. Still would like to compost the grass clippings but the basket will be a purchase down the road. I appreciate everyone's input in here. Just reaffirming to me that 1. This forum is the best lawn care forum and 2. Mowing low is awesome!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

There will still be some clippings that cling to your feet, but I will minimize the amount you can see on the surface after cutting.


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

@MooreGreen55020 I have 2 Toro Greensmaster 1600 walk behind machines. At one point I think I had like 4 of them but I am down to 2. I have 1 with a groomer and one without a groomer. I am so far not impressed with the groomer unit. This is most likely due to my lack of experience with it. I am sure that when I figure it out I will like it. I just have not taken the time to figure it out and find the sweet spot.

Yeah I did scalp my lawn last spring and took it from about 3 inches to 1/2". I wanted to see how it would recover. The lawn had gotten away from me and I wanted it low so I decided to do a reset.

If you are going to go from tall to short, eventually someday you just have to go for it and just cut into the stock area of the turf plant. This can be done with a verticutter or just with your mower by scalping it. I wanted to see how long it would take to recover. It was fine and it did recover in about a month or so but I did this in the spring when I knew that I had a lot of growing day ahead of me.

I trained the lawn to tolerate the low mowing by mowing it more often and keeping it short.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@wardconnor I think the sweet spot is around 1/8in hoc for the the groomer.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

g-man said:


> @wardconnor I think the sweet spot is around 1/8in hoc for the the groomer.


To clarify you are saying 1/8" lower than the bench HOC? So bench HOC 1", groomer at 7/8"?

If so, my results have been similar but think about it as % of HOC. Currently I am at 15/16" HOC and have groomer set at 3/4" or 80% of HOC. I have had the groomer down to 67% of HOC. Somewhere between those percentages I think is a good place to be for my yard/setup.


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## MNReel (Jul 18, 2018)

@wardconnor thanks for the explanation I will keep on the plan of knocking it down to 5/8" then raising HOC to 3/4" until next spring. Next spring I am doing the following renovation. I plan on doing plot 1 in the spring and plot 2 in the late summer. Plot 1 has gone through hell and requires the most work (has 1 large spot that is about 3 inches lower than the areas around it. I need to install some french drains off the gutters to keep the water from flowing down the hill and washing everything out. i am also putting in 100 cu.yd. of fill near the pond in the back to level it off. it's about a 4' drop over 16' and then i'll top dress it with 6" of top soil). I plan to kill it off once i get the back area filled and then plant my KBG blend. Then since I'll likely have ruts from the skid loader I will kill off plot 2 and level it so that I can match the same KBG blend. I will post pictures tonight after mowing the last time with the rotary mower (i measured it last night on the lowest setting and it's 1.1" which likely is giving me a 1.25" HOC). Then sunday will be day 1 of reel mowing! Exciting weekend, Wisconsin Badger Football on Saturday and then mowing with a real (reel) mower lol. I will adjust the groomer to about 1/8" .
I'm planning on killing it because I'm finding clumping fescue (some I know is K31 and alot is some type of clumping fescue that I'm just pulling out) throughout the yard. I also noticed a bit of bentgrass or something that took forever to green up in the spring and then did not survive well in the summer. Hasn't come back yet either.


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## MNReel (Jul 18, 2018)

Went for it on a 10'x10' area down to 1/2" just to test out my skills. Figured out I need to practice on making sharp turns. The rest of the yard was cut at 1" with the Fiskar's manual reel mower. I will be going for it across the whole yard on Tuesday. We've got rain coming today and Tuesday night. Threw down a light dose of nitrogen along with a a double dose of humic and sea kelp. 
P.S. I do not like the Fiskar's reel mower. But the ease of mowing with a Toro GM1000 is insane. My wife even noticed that it appeared easier to manage. Neighbors think I'm nuts as you can see the picture they cut at 4 1/2".


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## MNReel (Jul 18, 2018)

@OnyxsLawn , @g-man , @wardconnor , @Pete1313 , @zeus201 , @Harts , and anyone else I missed ... thank for your input and knowledge. Tonight was the perfect night to go for! 



I am hooked and I know you all said the yard will look awful. You all were correct it's not as bad as I was expecting based on my trial area but it has some time to bounce back up to 5/8". I can't express how amazing these mowers are. Do any of you have tips on controlling it in turns? Or does this just come with more practice? I had 5 "looky loos" stop to ask what the h*** this thing was and even though the yard looks bad they asked when they could come over and hit golf balls off of it. So excited for next year and what this yard can be!


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Reel mowing is quite enjoyable.

On my GM1000, I usually move the lever to neutral and make my turn or just slow it down and turn. A couple of mows and you will get it. Keep up with watering and fast release fertilizer to help it bounce back.

Vericutting will be super beneficial removing a lot of the thatch & sponginess. Timing of this is kinda tough as our growing season is nearing an end, almost recommend waiting till next spring.


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## MNReel (Jul 18, 2018)

I plan on verticutting late spring depending on how brutal this winter is. Then I plan to do a dose of Dthatch, Air8 and RGS. Once I start seeing the d thatch take action I'll do a layer of leaf compost (made in my back yard from grass clippings, previous thatch removal, egg shells, shredded laser printed paper and random kitchen scraps all made in a 50 gallon compost tumbler that got the internal heat between 120 and 140 at the hottest part of the summer). Light layer should add more nutrients and since it's very fine material I imagine I could do some leveling with it.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Congrats! The scariest part is over. Keep feeding it and with the cooler weather it will bounce back. You'll also notice your grass become more dense over time.

The comfort level will come in time. You'll get to know your lawn in ways you never really did with a rotary. Turns will become second nature.

Nice work!


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## MNReel (Jul 18, 2018)

@Harts thanks man! It took months to convince the wife that this is actually better for the turf because of the clean cut and countless other reasons. When she got home she thought I destroyed it. I told her "be patient it will come back thicker and nicer". Plus it looks 100x better than the 6 1/2" mats around the neighborhood l even when it's brown.

Also the grooming reel ... highly recommend. Set it at 1/8" and I could tell it was kicking up some dead grass that's under the surface. I wasn't quite sure about it at first but once I saw that I can tell it will be a great benefit once I get the grass catcher. Just need to find one at a decent price. Currently all are more than I paid for the mower lol.


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## OnyxsLawn (Mar 15, 2018)

Sweet! You're gonna love it. If you are waiting till spring to dethatch I think a good raking with a leaf rake would go a long way to help pull out some of that loose thatch and give the green grass a chance to spread some before winter without beating up the green grass you have left. Regardless of what you do, you're gonna see it thicken up a lot in the spring when it wakes up again.


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