# Bf7 2022 Journal - Prosperity / Moonlight SLT / Blue Velvet KBG



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Well, I guess it's time to start updating this again.

*Previous journal:*
Bf7 2021 Journal - Prosperity / Moonlight SLT / Blue Velvet KBG

*11/22/21 (end of last year):*


*2/17/22 (after ~6 weeks of snow cover):*




*3/22/22 (current):*










*Soil results:*


The pH reading is concerning and doesn't make sense to me. My soil was historically acidic, and it was 6.5 last year. Did not add any lime. How does it jump 1.3 in one year? I'm hoping I just made a mistake during sampling that's throwing it off.

I want to get it re-tested, probably with a different lab to confirm before I get 10,000 lbs of AMS.

The phosphorus level is puzzling as well. It was 23 last year, and I added almost 5 lbs / k of P. Very disappointing that it barely moved at all.

*Pre-em:*
Yesterday I put down 0.185 oz / k of prodiamine (3 month rate). No forsythia flowers yet, but there is a good rain coming to work it in.


*Test pots:*




Overall, lawn looks decent coming out of winter. Waking up in sections - areas close to the house and dog toilet are green and lush. My biggest issue is bumpiness. Getting this thing leveled is going to be a grind. I'm planning to spot-sand areas on the fly during the spring.

Targeting around 2 lbs / k of N in April-May. Hoping to start mowing within the next couple of weeks.

And I got a drone so that should be fun.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Looks great coming out of winter. I've got the same dog area in the back that looks amazing and is already overgrown ha

Cant wait to see some drone shots


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

Very nice, looks great coming out of winter. Looking forward to following your journal once again this year! Just a few more weeks until everything really takes off.


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## 0318 (Dec 7, 2021)

Welcome back! I'm following this years journal from the first row!
Good luck and have fun this season.

I leave the commenting on the high PH and low P for the experts :nod:


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Winter color retention is out of this universe. Even the mowing stripes stayed.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Green said:


> Winter color retention is out of this universe. Even the mowing stripes stayed.


It's pretty cool. I've experimented with TTTF, and some of my neighbors have it. Winter color is much stronger on the KBG, IMO.

The stripes could have something to do with mowing the same pattern for a month and not stopping until middle of December. Then again, I remember them sticking around well into March last year too.


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## FrankMc (Jan 17, 2021)

Thank you for sharing! The lawn looks great after the snow cover! Which drone do you use btw? There are a lot of budgets picks available(example) but I'm not sure that I'll take the same quality


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

FrankMc said:


> Thank you for sharing! The lawn looks great after the snow cover! Which drone do you use btw?


Thanks bud. I got the DJI Mini SE. Haven't used it yet - been waiting for the weather to improve.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Soil re-tested at Waypoint. Much better pH and P.

No clue what happened with the first sample. Maybe I didn't clean the bucket well enough before mixing.


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## Vtx531 (Jul 1, 2019)

I wonder how accurate these labs are? It would be interesting to take the same sample, split in half (or more) and send to multiple labs to see how close the results match. I'm going to make a thread in the fertility section and see if we can convince someone to do it.

Agree with the others, looks great coming out of winter!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Vtx531 said:


> I wonder how accurate these labs are? It would be interesting to take the same sample, split in half (or more) and send to multiple labs to see how close the results match. I'm going to make a thread in the fertility section and see if we can convince someone to do it.
> 
> Agree with the others, looks great coming out of winter!


Thanks! Good call - I should do that but don't want to toss another $40 at soil tests this year, ha. And I find smashing up the cores to be a PITA.

It's hard to believe that it could be the labs. But everything was the same between the two samples except the second time, I took almost twice as many cores and thoroughly scrubbed the bucket (it is plastic, not metal).

I trust the Waypoint results more for the above reasons and that the pH from Spectrum just made no sense (again, I believe my fault, not theirs) compared to every test I've done on my soil previously. I hope this doesn't discourage anyone from using Spectrum.


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

Does look great and looks ready to go! The burned in stripes are pretty cool. I think there a lot of factors that go into testing. Like how long the soil stays wet for before testing and how long they leave it in contact. There's probably a million other reasons and ways I can mess mine up. Can't wait to try!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Thanks @Wile! I didn't realize soil moisture could impact testing. My soil is seemingly always wet.

Ps - I am thinking of trying to maintain a collar around my backyard with a manual reel or maybe a rotary this year. I love the look on your lawn and want to see the color improvement at the higher HOC.


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

bf7 said:


> Thanks @Wile! I didn't realize soil moisture could impact testing. My soil is seemingly always wet.
> 
> Ps - I am thinking of trying to maintain a collar around my backyard with a manual reel or maybe a rotary this year. I love the look on your lawn and want to see the color improvement at the higher HOC.


Yes sir! @Wile is going to be the trendsetter on this one. With how easy the HOC adjustment is on the Swardman I can't pass this opportunity up. Looks sharp and will help keep the mulch in place.


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

@bf7 @jskierko yes, yes! do it! Can't wait to see!


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

moonlight looks like an amazing color out of the gate, what did you agree on using?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@ABC123 yes, moonlight looks pretty darn good. All of the pots suffered from disease and/or winter kill to some extent. Hoping I can keep the remaining babies alive.

No decisions yet. If another reno is in the cards, it would likely be 2023. That is assuming one of the cultivars doesn't blow me away over the next few months.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

First mow, finally! A cold / rainy start to April had been delaying things, but today hit 80F for the first time since September in my area.

The yard has been ready for a mow for at least a week. Standing water was preventing me from getting the greens mower on it. Still has not completely dried out. The grade is poor, and the soil does not drain well. Hoping more sand will help.

I started out at a HOC of 3/4", and the basket was full after 30 seconds. Much shaggier than I thought. I was cutting off too much for my liking, so I raised it to 15/16". I plan to gradually lower it.

Love the new drone :bandit:


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

Bravo, that looks awesome!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Great start to the year!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

0.3 lbs/k of N - Humic coated urea (foliar)
1 lbs/k of P - TSP
1 lbs/k of K - SOP
6 oz/k of Air 8
6 oz/k of RGS
6 oz/k of Microgreene

*Macro totals 2022:*
Nitrogen - 0.3 lbs/k
Phosphorus - 1 lbs/k
Potassium - 1 lbs/k


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## Carlson (Apr 16, 2020)

DOOD! Ridiculous color! And looking great right at the start of the season!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Of course you just had to go and throw down some N didn't you!?

It's like the first guy on the block who clears out their driveway after a snowstorm...everyone else comes out shortly thereafter. Let's go!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> Of course you just had to go and throw down some N didn't you!?
> 
> It's like the first guy on the block who clears out their driveway after a snowstorm...everyone else comes out shortly thereafter. Let's go!


LOL I'm amazed I lasted this long. The weather so far has just been terrible. Otherwise I might have a pound per k down already. It will be a tight window since I don't really want to feed it after May.

For the record, I'm the last guy on the street shoveling his driveway 🤣


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Green said:


> Winter color retention is out of this universe. Even the mowing stripes stayed.


I was thinking the same thing!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

I spent most of the weekend fixing edges on the beds. That required removing all the river rocks first. Not the most enjoyable work. But my rocks were getting buried in mulch, and edges were losing definition. So it needed to be done. Still more edging to do, actually. Then I need to put all the rocks back, assuming I don't fall in love with the naked edges.

I was able to fit in a mow yesterday after 8 days. This one was about 3/4". Forget the 1/3 rule - given the N I put down earlier in the week, I would have violated a 1/2 rule easily. The JD was vomiting clippings like nobody's business. Note to self - start PGR asap to get ahead of the seed heads.

I've started the process of forming collars around the borders / beds by not mowing those areas. I'm trying it in the front and back. It's likely going to look messy until I figure everything out. People are really going to wonder what the heck is going on. A decent portion of my front yard will be rotary mowed because it's so small.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

That aerial photo is super cool.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 damn!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@steffen707
@Jeff_MI84

Thanks guys. I'm having a lot of fun with the drone.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 drones are pretty fun.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Color is phenomenal. I walk back any previous comments I made about you doing a future monostand!


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## Carlson (Apr 16, 2020)

Wait, the 1/3 rule doesn't mean "leave 1/3 of the blade behind, tops"?

Color is looking great!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Carlson haha, I took it down to 5/8" today and definitely broke it again. I don't think the grass is appreciating my antics at the moment. But it'll bounce back in a day or two. Gotta love the spring flush.

With the lower cut on the "greens", the collars (currently mowed at 2" with rotary) are starting to pop.

@JerseyGreens :lol: my main reason now for doing the mono would be uniformity. One type is growing faster than the others. I believe it's Prosperity based on what I've observed in the pots.

Color is further down the list. I still want to find out which of the three is the darkest.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

True that. You refer to my yard as being very level - that goes with your point, everything is growing the same exact rate. I can see how that would be attractive. Find the best color and go for it man!


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## BBLOCK (Jun 8, 2020)

daaaayyyuuum, looking mint!


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

bf7 said:


> The JD was vomiting clippings like nobody's business.


Serves you right for applying N and making the rest of us look bad 😅! Can't wait to see the collars and edges.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@BBLOCK thanks man. It's that Blue Velvet magic!

@Wile my bad! Haha. Almost every lawn on here is wonderful, especially yours.

There is nothing quite like a clean, brand new edge, I must say. Hard work but satisfying.

I'll have pics of the collars soon. I want them to grow in more. They are SO much darker than the low cut turf already, at around 1.5" for the most part. Some areas are over 2".


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## rhart (May 7, 2020)

Color is phenomenal! Keep up the good work!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

0.25 lbs/k of N - Humic coated urea (foliar)
0.15 oz/k T-Nex
2 oz/k FEature - front yard (to avoid staining)
5 oz/k FeRROMEC AC - back yard

*Macro totals 2022:*
Nitrogen - 0.55 lbs/k
Phosphorus - 1 lbs/k
Potassium - 1 lbs/k

Usually I'm better with updating. Got busy at work.

The edging / landscape rock project is finally done. I sprayed a black dye (MulchWorx) instead of putting down new mulch. Game changer. Here's a peek at one of the new edges:



The collars are starting to come in nicely. I might start referring to them as "roughs" and the inner portion as the "fairway", since it's nothing close to a green.

Yesterday I cut the fairway at 7/8" and the roughs at 2". @Wile I hope these live up to your standard.

Sorry for the deluge of pics, making up for lack of updates.



























After 2.5 inches of rain last weekend, finding a lot of what looks like powdery mildew in the poor drainage areas. I'm planning to start fungicides once soil temps are consistently in the mid-60s.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Love this shot.

Your friends must either love your lawn, or think you're a wack job. lol


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

LOTM nomination incoming. The fairway/rough idea is stunning.

That's some tight spacing in the front. That would take some getting used to.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

What's your HOC?


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

Yeah, I agree with Steffen. The drone shots make the collars look outrageously cool. Everything looks so lush. Augusta might be calling you for tips.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Total domination.


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## grumpsterfire (Jun 26, 2021)

bf7 said:


> After 2.5 inches of rain last weekend, finding a lot of what looks like powdery mildew in the poor drainage areas. I'm planning to start fungicides once soil temps are consistently in the mid-60s.


I'm on the opposite end of the lawncare spectrum from you but I'm pretty close geographically. I had similar spots in my lawn but mine were my muddy footprints from walking on the lawn while it's drying. Maybe try to see if it rinses off like mud?

Your lawn looks amazing.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@MJR12284
@Wile
Thanks!

@lbb091919 I don't think I'm eligible, unless they changed the rules. Feel free to nominate me in November 

@steffen707 "Fairways" at 7/8 in; "Roughs" at 2 in

@grumpsterfire nice to see another yinzer on here! I think you're right...I didn't see those spots until walking all over the lawn. I'll try rinsing. Thanks for the tip!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Looks on point man! Those collars are freaking cool.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> Looks on point man! Those collars are freaking cool.


Thanks man! I want to see them on your lawn now!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> > Looks on point man! Those collars are freaking cool.
> ...


Man I'd make half my yard a collar once the old hickory tree starts dropping nuts which kill the grind on my reel. Maybe I'll have a 50/50 fairway and rough come fall!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > JerseyGreens said:
> ...


Haha that would be something to see. I'd dig it.


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## Carlson (Apr 16, 2020)

That rough/fairway look is awesome dude. Do you use the reel on the roughs and raise it up or do you use a rotary mower for those parts?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Carlson said:


> That rough/fairway look is awesome dude. Do you use the reel on the roughs and raise it up or do you use a rotary mower for those parts?


Thanks man. Rotary on the roughs. The max height on my JD is only slightly above 1". And I hate using the manual reel.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

0.25 lbs/k of N - Humic coated urea (foliar)
6 oz/k of Revolution
3 oz/k of Quali-Pro TM 4.5 (thiophanate-methyl)

*Macro totals 2022:*
Nitrogen - 0.8 lbs/k
Phosphorus - 1 lbs/k
Potassium - 1 lbs/k

Seed heads are out in full force.

The Revolution label says that it should be applied at least one month prior to onset of drought stress. Last year my first application was on 6/3, so this is progress. But, the past week has been somewhat stressful with very little rain. I have not brought out the hoses yet.

Humidity 77%. Three days ago I got the notification from GreenCast saying that dollar spot risk would be above 20%. So I kicked off my fungicide regimen today as well.

This weekend I started erasing my stripes by mowing in the same direction on the "fairway".

I also planted some petunias and stained the wishing well.

Most recent cuts were at 3/4".


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Are you setting up for a new pattern or going for the carpet look? Either way it looks mint as always!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

lbb091919 said:


> Are you setting up for a new pattern or going for the carpet look? Either way it looks mint as always!


Thanks bud 🙏

Exactly, going for the carpet look. I wasn't sure what to call it.

I'll definitely bring back the stripes. Just curious to see what this looks like.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Funny I actually considered doing the same today because I want to switch to diagonals but decided to wait.

I think the "no stripe" looks really clean


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

lbb091919 said:


> Funny I actually considered doing the same today because I want to switch to diagonals but decided to wait.
> 
> I think the "no stripe" looks really clean


Me too. For each pass, I go back over the same in the opposite direction to neutralize the stripe. Saturday I did east-west and Sunday north-south. The cut is so clean. It stands up the grass nicely as opposed to burned in, matted down stripes - I think a golfer would appreciate the playability of the carpet lawn lol


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


>


This is what my reno looks like next to my neighbors "rough". =)
i'm digging this collar thing. Might need to give this a try sometime.

How do you stop/start the cut at the exact line of the collar? I would imagine that on 2 sides its a straight cut, but on the other 2 sides, don't you have to stop/start right on the line?
Doing the opposite would be easy. longer fairway with short collars, could just do a clean up pass on a lower setting for the border. Maybe i should start there, lol.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@steffen707 I do a perimeter pass around all the roughs. I just follow the border lines. My regular passes don't really come close them because of the space I created with the perimeter.

I feel like the roughs are slowly creeping outward / getting bigger because I'm always worried about cutting into them with the greens mower. I end up not cutting close enough to the line.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

That collar closeup is sweet.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> @steffen707 I do a perimeter pass around all the roughs. I just follow the border lines. My regular passes don't really come close them because of the space I created with the perimeter.
> 
> I feel like the roughs are slowly creeping outward / getting bigger because I'm always worried about cutting into them with the greens mower. I end up not cutting close enough to the line.


I went back and saw what you were talking about. I guess I missed that detail when you posted before, a testiment to your quality work and lines.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Jeff_MI84 the closeup was basically an accident. I dropped my phone and when bending down to pick it up, thought it could be a cool shot.

@steffen707 thank you for the kind words. I had to learn that technique a while ago anyway to avoid scalping the neighbors grass.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> @Jeff_MI84 the closeup was basically an accident. I dropped my phone and when bending down to pick it up, thought it could be a cool shot.
> 
> @steffen707 thank you for the kind words. I had to learn that technique a while ago anyway to avoid scalping the neighbors grass.


Lol, for some reason, that totally makes sense now. I don't know why I was struggling to get the concept. Lmao


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

bf7 said:


>


Dude's got a sand trap…that's it. Seasons over. Let's pack it in folks. For real though, a putting green could be the next evolution?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Wile said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


😂 I'll be honest, I did not notice the pile of sand in the shot. You are the master of giving me terrible but awesome ideas.

A sand trap would be super cool. Never seen that in somebody's yard. Not sure what the maintenance would be like on that.

I thought about trying to mow a small section at like 3/8 to simulate a green visually from far away. A real green that you can putt on - I don't think that will be in the cards for a while.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> I thought about trying to mow a small section at like 3/8 to simulate a green visually from far away. A real green that you can putt on - I don't think that will be in the cards for a while.


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

@steffen707 haha. @bf7 a chipping green would be cool. I'm considering it, but the area is pretty shaded during the summer. Where as you have some good unshaded room for a tee box and a green. Fairway is already taken care of.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Always a chance fellas.

Sand trap and green would be verging on side hustle superintendent, without the income part. I have a feeling this would not go over well with the other half of the household.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Taking forever to erase the stripes that were burned in. At least 5 mows without stripes. They just won't go away. The carpet is not easy to attain.

Seed heads are much more visible in the high cut grass. Can barely see them at all in the low sections. The HOC is lower than last year at this time. Seed heads are less prevalent and color is lighter this year. The dramatic temp swings and lack of N apps could also help explain the color difference this year.

I'm doing a lot of planting this weekend. Most of my roses died over the winter ☹

Today's shots were all from the drone.







A couple of views from the "sand trap."


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 how hard are roses to maintain?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Jeff_MI84 said:


> @bf7 how hard are roses to maintain?


Good question. I'm the wrong person to ask because I'm a rookie with flowering plants. Given that my roses died while the rest of my perennials survived the winter, I'd say they are relatively difficult to maintain.

@bernstem has a fantastic garden. Any tips pertaining to roses would be much appreciated!


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 its a future goal to have roses in my flower bed.


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## Johnl445 (Feb 11, 2020)

What is the height difference between the rough and the main area?


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## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

bf7 said:


> Jeff_MI84 said:
> 
> 
> > @bf7 how hard are roses to maintain?
> ...


Oddly enough my wife and I lost a rose bush from the winter as well as my in-laws. Supposedly they are hard to kill but I think Mother Nature did a number in the northeast this year.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Johnl445 2" rough and 3/4" main. I've been using a level and a tape measure for the greens mower so I don't trust the HOC 100%. I'm going to start using an Accu-Gage.

@SpiveyJr that's interesting. I assumed it was my screw up. Do you do anything to protect them from the cold? Perhaps cover them? I think I will start bringing the potted plants inside.


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## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

No I don't protect them other than spraying them with deer and rabbit repellent because rabbits love to chew on them. We also lost a mini butterfly bush too. Grass is the only thing I'm good at growing….


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

SpiveyJr said:


> Grass is the only thing I'm good at growing….


:mrgreen: ditto!


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## Carlson (Apr 16, 2020)

That golf course look keeps getting better. The color on the rough is like forest green!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Carlson said:


> That golf course look keeps getting better. The color on the rough is like forest green!


Thanks! The forest green does tempt me to rotary mow the whole yard...


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> Carlson said:
> 
> 
> > That golf course look keeps getting better. The color on the rough is like forest green!
> ...


I wonder what an Allett mowing your grass at 2" would look like. Would it be that deep luscious green as well, but just look better cuz its a cylinder mower cut?

BTW, I had a dream about your lawn last night, lmao :mrgreen: :roll: . I was trying to mimic what you had done with my own lawn, and it clearly was a dream because my grass doesn't look that good.

When did you go from rotary cutting to reel cutting? What height were you at before, then after with the reel cut? Did you notice that a bunch of your grass was matted down from the rotary mower and took a while to fill in with the reel mower?

Reason i'm asking. I just detached with a sunjoe in two different passes. 1st pass 160 gallons of debris, 2nd pass 80 gallons of debris. This is all just from my front yard. I also mowed it before and after the 2nd pass. I noticed there were definately grass blades that were matted down and once combed up were taller than my 2" height. I'm just wondering if a reel mower would do a better job of getting an even "true cut" at that 2" height and would let the grass spread and fill in more.


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## WaffleMan (May 11, 2021)

Wow, that color is ridiculous. I am quite jealous. If you have any pointers or tips on getting that kind of color feel free to take a look at my 2022 journal, I have brand new Bluebank kbg, and seem to be doing everything right except for reel mowing but don't have anywhere close to this kind of color.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

I appreciate that @WaffleMan. I left some comments in your journal.

@steffen707 😂 your dream

Not much input on reel mowing above 1 inch. I've only done that with a manual reel, and it usually looks like crap. Not because it's a reel, but because it has no motor.

I started reel mowing when I renovated. So I don't have experience taking from high to low. Sorry I'm not much help with this. My understanding is best practice is to scalp it down / dethatch.

Have you tried mowing slightly below your desired hoc of 2"? Maybe that would stand up more grass. To your point, I think something with a roller would do a better job standing it up.

Have you checked out this video?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

*5/24:*
0.3 lbs/k of N - Humic coated urea (foliar)
0.25 oz/k T-Nex

*Macro totals 2022:*
Nitrogen - 1.1 lbs/k
Phosphorus - 1 lbs/k
Potassium - 1 lbs/k

I'm only at 195/280 GDD, but I'm mowing every other day and taking off quite a bit. Don't get me wrong - I love it, but just not enough time in the day. So I put down more PGR. The prior dose was light, so not overly concerned about overregulation.

We have been pretty dry lately. I broke the Big Rotor Sled and 1" × 100 ft Underhill out of storage last weekend. Watered 1/2" - back yard on Sunday and front on Monday. It's basically an all day project to get half an inch on the lawn. I need an irrigation system.

My Accu-Gage with hands-free attachment came yesterday. Love this tool. Actually, my previous settings using the straight edge and measuring tape weren't that far off from 3/4" - I had 0.77" on the left and 0.81" on the right. Nevertheless, I reset both sides to 0.75".







I snuck in a lunchtime mow today with before and after pics. The lawn was probably >1" in most spots.

I also decided to get rid of the no-stripe look. I knew that wouldn't last long.

Before:







Anyone know of a bird repellent to keep them from pooping on my decorative well?

After:







Some shrubs planted over the last couple of weekends. Still need to touch up with mulch.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> Anyone know of a bird repellent to keep them from pooping on my decorative well?


Just stain the decorative well with some kinda white-washed stain look, then the poop will just blend in. =) Or you could get a scarecrow maybe or a fake owl.



That Accugauge looks awesome. So you were a bit off with your tape measure, imagine the stripes you'll get now!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@steffen707 LOL that's a great idea. I'm considering jumping on this.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

It's an owl AND a scarecrow. Plus it's got a 4.3* rating. I'd give it a shot.

So are the birds just sitting on the well and then pooping on it? This isn't from mid air that they keep hitting it, is it? That would be something.


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

I'd treat it like a reno area and put one of the reflective, spinning pinwheels on it. Birds hate those, especially when the sun is hitting it.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

bf7 said:


> Jeff_MI84 said:
> 
> 
> > @bf7 how hard are roses to maintain?
> ...


@Jeff_MI84 Roses can be anything from easy to difficult to maintain. Shrub roses like the "knockout" roses are usually pretty easy. Some of the Hybrid Teas and Old Garden Hybrids can be more challenging. I have a lot of roses in my gardens and do comment on what I am doing with them in my journal. If you have specific questions, feel free to ask there or in the landscape forum and ping me.

As for the roses that died this winter, I have found that roses do not like to go into dormancy stressed. How you manage them in late summer/fall has a big impact on winter survival. In zone 4 and colder you definitely want to protect roses over the winter. In zone 5, you should protect the more fragile roses like some Hybrid Teas.

Roses really like to grow in slightly acidic soil with good drainage and a lot of organic matter. They also respond very well to fertilization and will tolerate pretty high levels of fertilizer.

Lastly, many roses will be very susceptible to diseases and may need fungicide spray to stay happy.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@steffen707 the birds are landing on it. I watch the entire process start to finish a few times a day.

@jskierko another great idea!


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> @steffen707 the birds are landing on it. I watch the entire process start to finish a few times a day.
> 
> @jskierko another great idea!


It'll be hard to poop on it if there is a 16" owl sitting next to them, but who knows, maybe they'll just start pooping on the owl. lol


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

0.5 lbs/k of P - TSP
0.5 lbs/k of K - SOP
0.5 lbs/k of K - MOP

*Macro totals 2022:*
Nitrogen - 1.1 lbs/k
Phosphorus - 1.5 lbs/k
Potassium - 2 lbs/k


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 i bought a few of those plastic owls because of my squirrel problem. They seem to work better if you rotate them to different spots. Have you thought about placing a shiny object on top of the well?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Jeff_MI84 said:


> @bf7 i bought a few of those plastic owls because of my squirrel problem. They seem to work better if you rotate them to different spots. Have you thought about placing a shiny object on top of the well?


Yesterday I bought the owl from Lowe's. It won't sit on the well, so I'll have to stake it - which I won't have time to do before I leave town for the weekend. Also I want to scrape the poop off and re-stain the well once I get the owl up.

To me, the owl is less of an eyesore than shiny pinwheels. I'll try those if the owl doesn't work.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Lawn looking good as usual! Looks like you are still using your jd 220b, got any tips for a first time back lapper? How tight did you get the bed knife to reel adjustment when back lapping?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

psider25 said:


> Lawn looking good as usual! Looks like you are still using your jd 220b, got any tips for a first time back lapper? How tight did you get the bed knife to reel adjustment when back lapping?


Hey man! How's the lawn doing?

For backlapping, I just followed the YouTube videos. Although this year, my drill overheated when doing this. So I'm not sure how often I'll be backlapping going forward. Depends on if I decide to invest in a more powerful drill.

I got a fresh reel and bedknife last year. It's still cutting paper cleanly. As long as that's the case, I don't see the need to backlap. I plan to get it professionally ground / sharpened prior to next season.

I think you want slight contact between reel / bedknife. You should hear some noise, but not too much. And the noise should taper off as you spin the reel / add compound. I believe it's explained in the videos.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

0.25 lbs/k of N - Humic coated urea (foliar)
0.5 oz/k of Propi-Star EC (PPZ)

*Macro totals 2022:*
Nitrogen - 1.35 lbs/k
Phosphorus - 1.5 lbs/k
Potassium - 2 lbs/k


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

After a couple of shots of N and nearly an inch of rainfall, the grass is LOVING it.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> After a couple of shots of N and nearly an inch of rainfall, the grass is LOVING it.


Do you have rocks around the mulch which is around your trees?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > After a couple of shots of N and nearly an inch of rainfall, the grass is LOVING it.
> ...


Yes sir


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Raised the height on fairway to 7/8" and roughs to 2.5". No sign of any disease yet. Lawn looks pretty happy overall.

Everything seems bumpier recently. I would like to spot level with my extra mason sand this spring but haven't found the time yet. Also wondering if / how I'm going to level the roughs going forward.

I think starting up PGR helped with color, but I still seem to be mowing a lot even with a dose of propi in between. Maybe we're just at peak growing time. I'll be out of town for a week near the end June. Last year I had success with a 0.4 oz rate of T-Nex when I was gone for a week. Will probably try that again.

Debating whether to throw down one more spoon feed before summer.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

The blue in that first pic…

Glad to see you're not dealing with any disease yet. Knock on wood. Looks great


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

You're killing it! I love the color, patterns, collars, etc.

Bird spikes may be the answer. They some in strips and can be affixed at the ridgeline, and on the sides of the roof. Plastic ones may not be as noticeable as the metal ones. I purchased some from Grainger for work a few years ago, and they work great!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Thanks fellas!

@lbb091919 I find that the blue tone stands out with a few drops of dew. I love taking pictures in the morning.

I've been really fortunate with lack of fungus on my KBG (still early for 2022, obviously). Not sure what to attribute that to - my climate or maybe the different KBG types in my blend. I'm by no means an expert on fungicides, but I think my current rotation is working ok.

@Chris LI the bird spikes - excellent suggestion. May be just what I'm looking for. I'm going to try them!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

0.25 lbs/k of N - Humic coated urea (foliar)
6 oz/k of Air 8
6 oz/k of RGS
6 oz/k of Microgreene

*Macro totals 2022:*
Nitrogen - 1.6 lbs/k
Phosphorus - 1.5 lbs/k
Potassium - 2 lbs/k

This should be the last N app for a while, maybe until the fall.

If you want to see a deadly cocktail for your concrete or vinyl, try the above at less than 1 gal/k carrier volume. While my intention was to save spraying time, I ended up spending an hour cleaning humic off my neighbor's fence. Sticks like white on rice.

Now that I have some extra room with the collars, I'm trying to master the greens mower "swing turn" without disengaging the drive. Like this guy:



I'm hoping this will prevent some wear and tear on the mower. Since it was designed to cut massive areas, probably not best practice to start and stop it constantly.


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## Butter (Nov 14, 2017)

WOW!


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## Wiley (Dec 2, 2019)

Looking mighty fine @bf7!


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

bf7 said:


> Now that I have some extra room with the collars, I'm trying to master the greens mower "swing turn" without disengaging the drive. Like this guy:


I'm glad I wasn't the only one impressed by this. I can barely mow straight lines let alone whip the mower around like a boss and end up at the right spot. The grid pattern looks sweet btw.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Butter 
@Wiley
I appreciate that!

@Wile
Like a boss 😂 for real, we all wish we were the guy in the JD instructional videos.

The turn isn't that hard, seriously. I didn't think I could do it either. But if you watch the video, he sets the throttle to the lowest setting like he's in slow motion. You have all the time in the world to line up the next pass. It just takes some getting used to adjusting the throttle up and down more often (up for the passes, down for the turns).

I had issues previously with the JD shutting off when I set the throttle too low. But that only happened when I first engaged the drive. If it's never disengaged, the mower keeps going.


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

Okay I think I'm getting it.

✅ need more coordination


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

*6/10:*
Triplet SF at 1 oz/0.75 gal water

Herbicide spot treatment applied to clover and various broadleafs - maybe 50 or so throughout the lawn.

Installed a bridge to hide the ugly sewer manhole in the backyard. Anyone in the market for some KBG sod removed in the process?


Finished product. Kind of looks like something you'd find at a mini golf course.


Lowered HOC to 3/4" in preparation for week long vacation (leaving next Saturday).


This one is a few days old...


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

I dig the mini-golf bridge. I need to redo my landscaping, I guess I'm focusing on the grass first.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 that walking bridge is sweet.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@steffen707 @Jeff_MI84
Thanks. The wife thinks it's too random but I like it. The neighborhood kids cross that section of the yard all the time so maybe it will get some use.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Did you buy the bridge as a kit, or make it yourself?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> Did you buy the bridge as a kit, or make it yourself?


https://www.aosom.com/item/outsunny-wooden-garden-bridge-arc-stained-finish-walkway-with-metal-chain-railings~844-251.html?recv=eyJwYWdldHlwZSI6InNjaCJ9&_ac=Search-bridge


----------



## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 putting rocks in the trenches you dug, is it more for decorative purposes or does it help with drainage?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Jeff_MI84 said:


> @bf7 putting rocks in the trenches you dug, is it more for decorative purposes or does it help with drainage?


The original intent was decoration, but I'm hoping it helps with drainage as well. That area gets a ton of standing water as everything slopes to the center. I can guarantee those trenches will fill up during the next heavy rain. I might dig them even deeper if it works.

I'm also considering poking holes in the area next to the bridge - definitely will be doing aeration heavier there in the fall to incorporate more sand in the soil and aid with drainage.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 Oh okay. I'll be following for sure how it goes for you. I'm toying with the idea of removing all mulch and replacing with rocks in the future. Any idea what type the smaller rocks under the foot bridge are?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Jeff_MI84 said:


> @bf7 Oh okay. I'll be following for sure how it goes for you. I'm toying with the idea of removing all mulch and replacing with rocks in the future. Any idea what type the smaller rocks under the foot bridge are?


This is the gravel I used

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kolor-Scape-0-4-cu-ft-Gray-Marble-Chips/3082879


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 same that I put down by the side reno.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Jeff_MI84 said:


> @bf7 same that I put down by the side reno.


Cool - how does the color hold up? I think they look sharp out of the bag.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 the color has held up decently. The one problem I noticed, was that there was a powdery residue that washed off some rocks, making them look more gray than white.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Jeff_MI84 said:


> @bf7 same that I put down by the side reno.


Just make sure you put down a good landscape fabric and 3"+ of rock. The previous owner of our home only used like 1-1.5" of rock and its full of grass and weeds. I gotta tear it all out and redo it.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@steffen707 I put the same gravel under my deck and used the landscape fabric. It works pretty well. The area by the bridge is so small I'll just gly or pull whatever weeds come through.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

6 oz/k Revolution
0.7 oz/k Abound (azoxy)
0.15 oz/k T-Nex

Hit 280 GDD yesterday, but I don't think I'm ready to put down the pre-vaca heavy PGR app yet. Based on the forecasted temps, it would run out prior to me getting home. Put down a low rate today just to prevent any rebound over the next few days. I'll do another app later this week.

After spraying, went over the whole lawn with garden hose to get the Revolution and azoxy down into the top layer of soil. Hoping rain will take care of the rest.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

*6/15:*
0.4 oz/k T-Nex

Mowed about 12 hours after PGR app which was early morning. Height still at 3/4".

Very hot/humid week (90F+). Today I was able to get down almost a half inch of water, although it probably wasn't needed. Just some insurance in case next week is dry when I'm out of town. I'll be setting up sprinkler timers for the flowering shrubs but not for the lawn.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

May have caught the fungus bug. From far away the spots kind of look like DS, but close up I'm not sure. I couldn't find any mycelium in the morning, but conditions have been ripe for disease this week (78% humidity, 5 day average). Currently on azoxy in my rotation which doesn't help with DS. Debating whether to throw down some Clearys.

This area is next to where I was killing grass around the manhole last weekend, so I guess it's possible these are gly footprints. It's not affecting all the grass though. Maybe I overlapplied Triplet in spots.

Anyone know what this is?









And now for the moment of truth...bird spikes installed.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 nice bird spikes. Hopefully that helps.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

I think you're right about DS, but I forgot how the lesions look, and I was more familiar with DS on bentgrass putting greens, in my former occupation. However, the pattern looks very similar in the cutaway shot.

Good luck with the bird spikes. They match the well nicely. The proof is in the pudding. If they find a way to perch along the side of the shaft, maybe add another row on the other side (I could be wrong, but the image appears to show them on the opposite side of the peak).


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Jeff_MI84 crossing my fingers

@Chris LI thanks for input. Since I'm leaving town tomorrow morning and need to mow again, I probably won't have time to get down another fungicide app. I'll let it ride and hope for the best. It seems to be isolated to that section of the yard.

Agree on the well - the way the spikes are designed, I wasn't able to attach them to the point at the top where the bids sit, so I put them on the side. I'm going to see if this setup works and then add spikes to the other side if necessary. I'm trying to avoid making it look too ridiculous if not needed.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> May have caught the fungus bug. From far away the spots kind of look like DS, but close up I'm not sure. I couldn't find any mycelium in the morning, but conditions have been ripe for disease this week (78% humidity, 5 day average). Currently on azoxy in my rotation which doesn't help with DS. Debating whether to throw down some Clearys.
> 
> This area is next to where I was killing grass around the manhole last weekend, so I guess it's possible these are gly footprints. It's not affecting all the grass though. Maybe I overlapplied Triplet in spots.
> 
> ...


Holy sh+t, those are serious spikes!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

DS (hour glass) + Poa a


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

g-man said:


> DS (hour glass) + Poa a


After a week vacation with DS model at 70% I came back to the same thing. I didn't see any hourglass lesions so I was wondering if it was some poa a dying off. Could be the same case for you.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Thanks for the ID @g-man and for calling out the weeds 

@lbb091919 could be...not sure if I'd rather have poa or disease. I'm going more aggressive with prodiamine this fall. Skipped my second crabgrass treatment and starting fall apps in early August.

The spots are common around broadleafs that I shot with Triplet. I wonder if I stressed out the turf with the herbicide, making it more susceptible to fungus...or maybe it's just more poa.





It's supposed to be cool and dry the next few days, so we'll see if it improves without fungicide.

@steffen707 the birds are already making a mockery of my spikes - found more poop this morning :x


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

My buddy has used these, but they're not very attractive.

QIEGL Bird Spikes for Pigeons Small Birds Anti Bird Spike Metal Bird Deterrent Spikes Stainless Steel Fence Spikes Cover 25 Feet (23 Pack Uninstalled) https://a.co/d/1qdMhKx


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@steffen707 thanks. I think my spikes will work better if I attach them to both sides of the perch. I'll try that first.

Yesterday morning, mowed again at 3/4" and collected clippings due to disease. Won't be mowed again or get any care for 8 days.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

I'm really interested how it'll look after 8 days, also I'm really interested what kinda color your "roughs" will have if you ever decide to cut those down to 3/4". Will it look the same, or need extra work to get the color back.
I love that last front yard picture. An area that's small already, but you put extra care to make the rough/fairway look anyways.

I've been thinking, if you programmed a robot mower to mow the whole yard at 2", then you could just reel cut the fairways, and never have to bother with the roughs.


----------



## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 your front yard is looking pretty sweet. Does reel mowing low basically eliminate the need to trim up the edges?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@steffen707 I wondered that too because I'm sure I'll want to go back eventually. Every few mows, I straighten out the line between the fairway and rough. I always end up scalping the edge of the roughs, and it takes days or even weeks for the color to come back. So I assume it would be no different than anyone else taking their lawn from rotary to reel mowed (not a quick or painless process, unfortunately).

No robo mowers for me. If I upgrade my rotary, it will be a TimeMaster 

@Jeff_MI84 I've actually been trimming less since I started doing the roughs around the beds. I still have some edges that I reel mow around (hell strips and around the bridge). They take more care to keep them clean. It's not easy to get a greens mower close to the edge. A manual reel helps.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Returned from week long getaway. Lawn took a heavy beating from drought. Mostly along driveway / street and spots with poor sprinkler coverage. Probably some poa a mixed in too in the back yard.

Worst areas below - gave all these a good soaking with garden hose. Will be running sprinklers the rest of tonight / tomorrow.

On the bright side, didn't come back to any jungle or fungus. Things are so crispy, I don't even need to mow it. It's almost the same height that I left it.









Fortunately, I had timers running on the shrubs, and this hydrangea looks very nice vs 1 week ago.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Damn...... Is that the same lawn?!


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

Did i read that you don't have in ground irrigation in a recent thread?


----------



## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

Yikes. Its insane. Less than an inch of rain over the last 2 weeks.


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

No better growth regulator than dormancy (sans glyphosate). I've had to do some spot hand-watering on my lawn as well, and I have in ground irrigation. Been a rough last month or so in a lot of areas (0.68" of precipitation in my area for June, none in the last 2 weeks).


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

How long would it take for those areas to bounce back?


----------



## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Jeff_MI84 said:


> How long would it take for those areas to bounce back?


I'm eager to find out. I had a few areas in my lawn that were getting dryer and i've been hand watering them in addition to the sprinklers. I was bumbed out about my spots...... :shock: sorry @bf7 , hope it bounces back quickly.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@steffen707 @Jeff_MI84
Hard to say. Maybe 1 or 2 weeks to fully recover, assuming there was no die off. It's already improving this morning. Next to the driveway, the builder dumped a pile of rocks. I'd be lucky if there's 2-3 inches of soil there. It always checks out first and bounces back rather quickly. The other spots are where the tree blocks the sprinkler and the back section where I get lazy with watering. If I hadn't watered the week before I left, my whole yard could be dormant right now. Many lawns in my neighborhood are totally brown.

@Wile correct, no in-ground. But I don't want to make excuses, since I work from home 4 days per week and think my water is fairly cheap. My provider doesn't break out variable vs fixed charges on the bill, but the total is typically $5-10 per 1,000 gallons. Many people with irrigation systems have city imposed water restrictions or the water is too expensive. Thankfully I don't have those problems...I think the sand cap snuck up on me this year, and I need to step up my game. If anyone else has put down sand without in-ground irrigation, I'd be interested to see what they're doing.

@situman brutal. Yesterday I was driving up from warm season territory to transition zone to cool season, and the grass along the roads and lawns looked more and more like straw as I went north. I believe 0.43" was recorded at PIT intl airport on 6/23, but my house didn't get anything close to that. The storm was hit or miss. My rain gauge was bone dry. No real precipitation since 6/9.

@jskierko 0.68" for the whole month!  my area has gotten something like 1.5-2, but most of it obviously in early June. It's supposed to rain tonight now that I'm home (of course).


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

So you manually water this masterpiece?

I think I forgot about this fact.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> So you manually water this masterpiece?
> 
> I think I forgot about this fact.


Lol yes


----------



## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

bf7 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> > So you manually water this masterpiece?
> ...


That makes it all that more impressive!!! :thumbsup:


----------



## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

Chris LI said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > steffen707 said:
> ...


Mind blown 🤯


----------



## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Chris LI @Wile thanks! I'm not sure if it's only the people who care about their lawns or a geographical thing. Seemingly no one (excluding the very wealthy) in my area has an irrigation system. I'm tinkering with the idea - maybe prior to the next reno 

Anyway, update on the scorched turf. After drenching the really bad spots, I watered the entire lawn 0.5" on 6/26. Then mother nature proceeded to drop 1.4" of rainfall that night!

The localized dry spots aren't looking much better 3 days later. Starting to wonder if there was some kill. That said, the rest of the lawn responded well to the water and is looking pretty darn good. The brown area behind the tree in the back yard evidences how important sprinkler coverage is. The spots in the front yard are due to very shallow soil depth. There's not much I can do there except drench frequently.

Brought the HOC up to 7/8" and mowed on 6/27. Last mow before that was on 6/18. Clippings were minimal so that shows the power of PGR and dormancy.

This morning (6/28), put down 3.5 oz/k of Quali-Pro TM 4.5 (thio-methyl) - curative rate for DS. Did not water in. I think the DS may have spread a bit since I first caught it. Hard to tell the difference between fungus and dormancy sometimes.

















Double bird spikes = zero poo (so far)


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

My "Poor Man's" irrigation system has served me well for about 20 years (garden hose & sprinkler spike bases). Other folks started doing the same thing (DIY). It wouldn't be too difficult to run hoses through the beds, to have "irrigation" for the turf nearby the house. For a little more work, you could take a half moon edger and cut slits down your property lines (to hide the hose) in the backyard and pop a couple of large gear drive sprinklers on each line. That should reduce the regular hose end sprinkler and hand watering a lot.

Glad the bird spikes are helping.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 think about all the time saved, not having to get up early and drag the hose around.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Those areas realistically won't bounce back until much cooler weather. Well that was my case when something similar happened near my two mature trees. I hand watered/flooded the area in concern which seemed to help a bit but it didn't get back to pristine until late Sept when the trees stopped being greedy with the water...

I believe g-man recommended that I had to start watering slow and frequently along the drip line of those trees before any signs of drought stress...I don't have time and I have the same crappy outcome this year...

I bet all of that damage bounces back for you come Fall.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@JerseyGreens do you recall how often per week you watered the drip line, outside of normal irrigation for the lawn?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Chris LI that's an awesome idea with the beds and property lines. What hoses and sprinklers do you have? I'm using a 1" diameter hose, commercial sprinkler with Rain Bird head, and water pressure from the faucet is solid (don't recall the exact psi, but I measured last year). It still takes me 1.5-2 hours per zone to get down 1/2" of water on a 360 degree rotation. I'm always trying to improve this.

@Jeff_MI84 I know, I know. The manual watering worked flawlessly all last summer, and I didn't feel burned out moving hoses. This year I think it was the combination of sand layer and poorly timed vacation that did me in. I'll have to strongly consider in-ground or DIY system now.

@JerseyGreens UGH. Don't know if I can put up with these spots for another 3 months! I'll be tempted to bring out the pro plugger which I know would be a bad idea in the summer. At least I don't have the mature trees competing for nutrition...we'll see. Lesson learned for next year.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

The lawn looks so so much better! Sinister looking watering well. =)


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> The lawn looks so so much better! Sinister looking watering well. =)


Thanks man. Not a huge fan of the sinister look, but it beats the alternative.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

I have some 3/4" hoses and some 5/8" hoses and run the large Orbit Voyager II with 3/4" inlet for larger areas, and some smaller units (Rain Bird 32SA with 1/2" inlet, Hunter MP 3000 rotators, and pop ups). I use a Gilmour hi-flow manifold, which has 4 valves and a 5th bypass that has a cap. I remove the cap and put a hi-flow Y with valves and run 6 hoses. I pieced together a 1" Orbit real irrigation system with manifold and garden hose adapters, and was gifted a Rachio timer, but still haven't had a chance to do the install.

That setup with the 1" commercial line is sweet. Since you already have a 1" connection for the hose, maybe you could utilize that and build a 1" manifold using an Orbit manifold and just go with 1" poly line to press into the "slice", using the typical gray plastic T's, and use landscape stakes against the side of the sprinkler head to support it with zip ties. You could probably adapt some 1" pvc ball valves to the Orbit manifold and retain your 1" hose with sprinkler for one of the manifold zones to move around for gap coverage. Also, I have a couple of Underhill nozzles which are best suited for the 1" hose pressure/volume. The blue shower head nozzle has a built-in 3/4" to 1" adapter and should bolt right up. If you're interested, I'll look it up.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

Maybe something like this? https://www.amazon.com/Rain-Bird-LG3HE-Sprinkler-Click-N-Go/dp/B07HKTDV5K/ref=asc_df_B07HKTDV5K/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309775747388&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16297941184716761011&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9016882&hvtargid=pla-613064483001&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=65401905041&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309775747388&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16297941184716761011&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9016882&hvtargid=pla-613064483001#video-immersive-view_1656553953716


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

The front is so beat up. But looking at it from the drone it looks like a small spot on a mostly green lawn. Hope it recover soon.

I visited your lawn journal to see how your experiment is doing. I seeded moonlight SLT last week and I get a little to no germination unlike the mazama and bluebank I did in 2020.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Chris LI nice setup! I have the Underhill Cloudburst nozzle. It's great! As far as my sprinklers, I need to work on increasing gpm. I did a 5 gallon bucket test from the hose, and it didn't fill up in 1 minute. Taking the 3/4" adapter off the hose (making the opening 1") made little to no difference. I think the 100 ft hose REALLY slows down the water output. My 5/8", 50 ft hoses perform similarly to the 1", 100 ft. Not sure what else I can do to increase gpm while covering the far reaches of my lawn.

@Jeff_MI84 that product is super cool. Do you know if they offer a rotor version instead of impact?

@shadowlawnjutsu the experiment has been frustrating. I still can't tell the cultivars apart (maybe someone else can). I noticed that Blue Velvet dries out before the others. I took these on 6/29:

Order: P, M, BV


P


M


BV


I forgot to take update pics of the dormant grass. The area behind the tree is slowly improving with regular water. The spots by the street and driveway are not bouncing back at all, despite drenching at least once per day. There is nowhere for the roots to go. Very aggravating.

I turned off PGR. Had issues with it last July and don't see the need right now. If I restart, it will only be in August when I'm planning another vacation. That means I have nothing to spray except fungicides which is a relief.

Overall things are looking ok. Only 0.1" of rainfall since last weekend. Watering 0.5" every 3 days. Mowing at 7/8" sparingly.

Happy 4th!


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 I found that product while looking for a separate setup for a smaller area that only gets hand watering. It would be nice if there was rotator version.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Funny you mention Cloudburst nozzle, I have a Pellet Pro scheduled to arrive on 7/5 which comes with one. I also ordered the Rainbow nozzle (yellow), in case the Cloudburst drops psi too much. You definitely need larger diameter pipe for longer runs, due to pressure drop. 1-1/4" poly pipe is available, if you think you need to go larger. Also, the higher end gear drive sprinklers have removable nozzles with different flow rates to maintain throw at lower psi. You can balance volume/distance and adjust watering time, and maybe able to avoid the higher cost of larger pipe. You can use your existing hose to test one out, while designing your DIY system. I nerded out a couple of years ago and keep too many tabs open on my browser, so here's a couple of links to check out. 
http://irrigation.wsu.edu/Content/Calculators/Residential/Garden-Hose-Flow.php#LTable

https://www.watertips.com/info/layout5.htm


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

The prosperity looks darkest for me,followed by BV and then the Moonlight.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Chris LI thanks for the info and good luck with the Pellet Pro! I'll be following.

Was feeling festive this morning...didn't turn out as well as I wanted. Needed fatter stripes I think. Hopefully ya'll can tell what it is 😂


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

Great flag, happy 4th of July!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Great flag, happy 4th of July!


Thanks man, likewise!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

0.7 inches of rain this morning - I'll take it.

Dry spots creeping back to life, less so by the driveway. Seems like the short grass recovers quicker.







Really digging the deep red in these Ingrid Bergman roses.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

SparkNotes: The roughs hate me.

Full story: A few days ago I noticed a brown hue all over the long grass. Upon closer inspection, it was dull mower blades. Apparently they come pretty dull out of the box because I had just replaced them on the Honda this spring.

Since I had never sharpened blades before, I bought an angle grinder at Harbor Freight for $15. What a steal. They had another one for $10!

After sharpening, I came up with the genius idea to bring the height from 2.5 to 2 inches. I figured it would remove all the frayed tips from the grass...

Mission accomplished, with a nice scalp job!

I didn't notice what was happening until several long passes. At that point, my mindset was to stay the course with the HOC or else it would be uneven. One mistake after another. The mower was so bogged down near the end that it shut off the engine several times.

I can't believe one notch made such a huge difference. The grass couldn't have been longer than 3-3.5 as I just cut it at 2.5 the other day. But this is what I get for lowering the deck in July.

The damage looks way worse in person. At least the fairway is happy.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Fairway looks ready for golf. I bet your roughs don't take long to green up again.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> Fairway looks ready for golf. I bet your roughs don't take long to green up again.


The plan is to water the crap out of them. There's been a decent growth surge since I turned off the PGR, so that should help.

Despite the unsightliness at the moment, the feel of walking on 2 inch grass is exponentially more satisfying than 2.5 to me. Go figure. I'm thinking of staying at 2.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Pretty impressed with how the short grass has handled the challenging elements this summer.



The reel mowed dormant spots are bouncing back much faster than the rotary mowed ones. I'll update on that soon.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> > Fairway looks ready for golf. I bet your roughs don't take long to green up again.
> ...


I wonder what the ideal height is. 1"? 1.5"?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > steffen707 said:
> ...


My ideal is dependent on time of year. Right now, probably 7/8". And somewhere in the 1/2-3/4 range in the spring/fall.

From what I've observed this year, there are no advantages going above 1 inch except darker color. Just my opinion.


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## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

Prosperity is certainly impressive when it comes to handling drought and high heat. I have about 95% Prosperity (5% whatever else decided to grow and live) and it only grew in during the spring and it is holding up like a champ with good color.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

situman said:


> Prosperity is certainly impressive when it comes to handling drought and high heat. I have about 95% Prosperity (5% whatever else decided to grow and live) and it only grew in during the spring and it is holding up like a champ with good color.


Nice! I wasn't sure if you actually went through with the Prosperity mono. I've never seen one. Could you share any pics?

At the moment, Prosperity is what I'm leaning toward as a potential mono down the road.


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## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

bf7 said:


> situman said:
> 
> 
> > Prosperity is certainly impressive when it comes to handling drought and high heat. I have about 95% Prosperity (5% whatever else decided to grow and live) and it only grew in during the spring and it is holding up like a champ with good color.
> ...


Its not looking pretty right now. Very big patches of bare spots cux of the weird spring here.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@situman gotcha. What caused the bare spots? What's your hoc?


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## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

bf7 said:


> @situman gotcha. What caused the bare spots? What's your hoc?


I got cheeky and did a Spring reno lol. DIdnt do a good job of having good seed to soil contact plus the weird weather. Its filling in on its own. I am being cheeky again and seeding in the middle of 90 degree days and a long drought.

If I do another reno, I would do Prosperity no questions asked. The color is great even during the summer heat, handling drought conditions like a champ even as a grass that's less than 4 months old. Good stuff.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@situman haha I like your style! I suppose I can wait until the fall for pics :mrgreen:

I wanted to update again on the dormant grass, more specifically how the different heights are behaving. Most of what I see goes against conventional wisdom that longer grass is better with drought. The low mow areas definitely recover faster from dormancy. As to why, I'm not sure. Maybe because of more lateral growth habit? Or less leaf tissue to revive?

The short grass also seems to be more drought tolerant before dormancy is reached. Although I'm less certain of this than the recovery phenomenon above (post dormancy). Almost every spot that I see struggling is in the roughs. But that could just be bad irrigation coverage, since the roughs tend to be on the edge of the yard. I'll have to keep observing.

Things are looking better vs 2.5 weeks ago when I came back from vacation to a deep fried lawn. The strip by the driveway is the least improved (all longer grass). You can see the short grass is almost completely green again.

*Driveway*
*6/25*


*7/12*


*Hell strip*
*6/25*


*7/12*


*Behind the plum tree*
*6/25*


*7/12*


The colors look backwards ever since I "scalped" the long grass. The collar is lighter than the green - very evident after the mow tonight.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 that's quite the turnaround.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Jeff_MI84 said:


> @bf7 that's quite the turnaround.


^+1
Very interesting about how your low-cut turf rebounded from dormancy better. The roughs were probably shocked a bit with the "scalp job". Maybe a little extra hand watering with the Cloudburst nozzle will help. That thing really puts the water down in large drops, so less is lost to ET. Really heavy watering once the soil will accept the water can make a big difference fairly quickly IMHO.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Chris LI said:


> Jeff_MI84 said:
> 
> 
> > @bf7 that's quite the turnaround.
> ...


Definitely shocked and stressed out! The scalp almost acted as a dethatch because a ton of dead stuff came up. Rough day for the roughs :lol:

The slow recovery was evident long before the scalp, but it certainly slowed things down even more.

The Cloudburst is being well utilized nowadays 👍


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

*7/14:*
0.2 lbs/k of N - Humic coated urea
5 oz/k Revolution (what was left in the jug)
0.7 oz/k Abound (azoxy)

*Macro totals 2022:*
Nitrogen - 1.8 lbs/k
Phosphorus - 1.5 lbs/k
Potassium - 2 lbs/k

First time I'm trying July nitrogen on the KBG. There was a small window with highs around 80 and lows in the upper 50s, so figured it was the best opportunity. It was applied with the sprayer but watered in immediately around 7-8am. I needed to water in the wetting agent anyway. I'm hoping some N will help the roughs recover / green up from the accidental semi-scalp.

I had a PPZ app slated for this spray but didn't want to put the roughs under any extent of regulation. Went with Abound instead despite DS issues earlier this year. Current DS risk in my area is 25% (moderate). No disease pressure to speak of in the yard right now.

Speaking of regulation, the rebound phase has been fairly intense. I need to mow every 2 days, and even then it's taking off a lot, probably more than 1/3. I'm not seeing any ill effects on the short grass, so I'll continue without PGR for the time being.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Not much to report. Still growing like the rainforest without regulation. I usually mow at dusk, and the next morning the stripes are already fading. Roughs are doing much better after raising height to 3 in. JD still set at 7/8 in - haven't deviated in a while.

Other than mowing...water, water, water.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Looking great! It bounced back nicely from the edge of dormancy. Any tricks with the "water, water, water"? Are you holding off on PGR for awhile, or looking to put it back into regulation after the heat breaks?

BTW-I really like the "native grasses/plants" on the hill in the background. Whether that's the intention or it just being wild, it reminds of the native roughs of high end GCs, with your fairway and 1st cut of rough in the foreground.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Thanks @Chris LI! For the water, I'm just going for my normal 1 inch per week on top of whatever rainfall I get. This week we got about 0.7 inches I think (all at once). I stopped hand watering for the most part.

I don't plan on using PGR until I go on vacation again (mid-late Aug), and then I'll stop again when I sand cap in Sep. I would prefer not to take it in and out of regulation like that, but I think it could be 8 inches long after a week+ without mowing.

The hillside wasn't intentional at all. I always called them weeds, but that's very nice of you to call them native plants haha. I like them too until they try to invade my grass. That hill and back area up to the fence is actually my neighbor's property. They're an older couple so I take care of it.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

0.15 lbs/k of N - Humic coated urea (foliar)
0.7 oz/k of Propi-Star EC (PPZ)

*Macro totals 2022:*
Nitrogen - 1.95 lbs/k
Phosphorus - 1.5 lbs/k
Potassium - 2 lbs/k

2.2 inches of rain yesterday, high 80F / low 58F - time for some N!


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## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

Glad to be getting some rain. Sad it is the heavy downpour for 30 mins variety.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@situman it's frustrating to not know how much is getting absorbed. But, after the storm, I barely had any standing water where the drainage is typically awful. So I think that's a good sign that the soil isn't terribly hydrophobic. Keeping a steady supply of water has helped and Prosperity is holding strong.


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

Wow dude! Great recovery! Also, is this your yard in Lawnlife's vid?
https://youtu.be/lj5y_JbpfaE


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Wile said:


> Wow dude! Great recovery! Also, is this your yard in Lawnlife's vid?


Thank you sir! Ever since I stopped PGR it's been smooth sailing.

That's right, @jrubb42 graciously featured my drone shot. There was an intense bidding war to use the image between him, Knorr, and The Lawn Tools 😂


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

I did the same, but recently went back to the pgr routine. DS damage is getting better even under regulation. Maybe in one of his vids next year the bunker and putting green will be ready? &#128064;


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Wile said:


> I did the same, but recently went back to the pgr routine. DS damage is getting better even under regulation. Maybe in one of his vids next year the bunker and putting green will be ready? 👀


Haha why am I the only one being pressured to go full country club?? Last I checked, you were the PIONEER of the rough / fairway setup in a yard and still have it!

I need to go back to PGR soon for my vacation. Actually planning to put some down within the next few days.


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

Well, it's obvious that your yard is perfectly set up for it. You could have a tee box on the left side of the drive. A green and bunker already have perfect placement. Then, we can start thinking about where to put the pond...

I do want to add a chipping green. I've been just swamped and sick this year thanks to the LO and daycare. I agree, it's time I step my game up. Might over seed a section with some true putt seed next year to see what happens.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

*8/4:*
0.185 oz / k of prodiamine (3 month rate)
6 oz/k of Air 8
3 oz/k of RGS

@Wile funny you mentioned the true putt - yesterday I ordered a pound of bent seed to experiment with this fall. I was inspired by John Perry's recent vid where he showed the edge of his green where the bent was a little longer (starting around 5:30 below). It looks freaking awesome. This year I'm thinking of planting a small section of my yard and playing around with it at fairway heights to see how bad the maintenance really is. Who knows what's in store for 2023...could be wild.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

0.2 oz/k T-Nex
3 oz/k Quali-Pro TM 4.5 (thiophanate-methyl)


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Back on the PGR train for the rest of the season?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

lbb091919 said:


> Back on the PGR train for the rest of the season?


Just for the next month or so (2 apps). I want it to be growing when I dump sand on it in the fall.


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

That color is just out of this world!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

jskierko said:


> That color is just out of this world!


Thanks bud, we're getting close to prime time. Excited to see all of our lawns showing out this fall!


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

bf7 said:


> 0.2 oz/k T-Nex
> 3 oz/k Quali-Pro TM 4.5 (thiophanate-methyl)


There is just something about the look of the yards that use NEXT products. I'm tempted to try some knockoff diy mixes next year of it to see, but that is outstanding! JP's video is interesting and that BG putting green does look nice. I would love to do a chipping green. Maybe that's what I'll do and see how I can keep the current bluegrass at like .25"-.35" for the season.

Edit: meant to ask what HOC you are at now?


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

maybe you can get the RLOTM award for best Recoverery Lawn Of The Month......WOW! 
When do you start the fall N blitz, and how much do you put down, and how often? ------killer run-on sentence I know! :mrgreen:


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Wile I like the NEXT soil amendments. If you're willing/able, try a control plot so we can see how the same lawn responds with and without them. I wish I had done that from the beginning and I'm too lazy to start.

HOC was 7/8" in the photo. Gradually bringing it down to 1/2" now.

@steffen707 thanks bro. Planning to start blitz the last week of Aug. Shooting for 2 lbs in Sep, 1 lb in Oct, and 0.5 lbs in Nov, in addition to winterizer around Thanksgiving. Apply every 5-7 days. Will have some burnt tips for sure.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Today I put down a round of gly on a 300 sq ft plot that will be broken in 1/2 separate sections of creeping bentgrass and Prosperity KBG to be sowed in a few weeks. Unfortunately I came up with this brilliant idea hours after I applied prodiamine to the area. I'm going to try tilling it up with the garden weasel in an attempt to break the pre-em barrier without ruining the leveling work that's been done. Please let me know if there are any better ways to pull that off.



This is the bent I'm trying out:


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> Today I put down a round of gly on a 300 sq ft plot that will be broken in 1/2 separate sections of creeping bentgrass and Prosperity KBG to be sowed in a few weeks. Unfortunately I came up with this brilliant idea hours after I applied prodiamine to the area. I'm going to try tilling it up with the garden weasel in an attempt to break the pre-em barrier without ruining the leveling work that's been done. Please let me know if there are any better ways to pull that off.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the bent I'm trying out:


Will the bentgrass spread into the rest of your lawn?

What height are you going to cut it at?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> Will the bentgrass spread into the rest of your lawn?
> 
> What height are you going to cut it at?


I guess we'll find out. I'm not worried. Should be a nice looking grass anyway. If it spreads and I don't like it, there's a damn good excuse for another reno :mrgreen:

Most likely, similar height to my reel mowed KBG. But I think I'd enjoy the flexibility to venture below 1/2" where KBG doesn't perform as well. Want to see how it does with fungus and how dark it gets when not kept at super low putting green height.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> > Will the bentgrass spread into the rest of your lawn?
> ...


Well I'm already subscribed so........ Let the testing begin!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

2nd round of gly on the test plots, this time with NIS added. A few crispy spots but still green for the most part 3 days after the 1st app. Normally I'd give it more time, but I want to try and kill, scalp, break pre-em barrier, mix in sand, and smooth it out within the next week. I suspect all of that is going to be time consuming even for 300 sq ft. I'll be out of town the following week. If I'm able to get the ground prepped before then, I can set and forget the sprinkler timer to fallow while I'm gone. When I get back, final gly and seed. That's the plan anyway.

On the rest of the lawn, PGR and mild weather are allowing me to reduce the HOC without much consequence on turf health/appearance. Nighttime temp has dipped into the 40s! I've been lowering 0.1" every other day or so. Last cut was at 0.7". I'm always awestruck by the difference once I go below 3/4". The cut quality with a 9 blade reel in that range is quite satisfying. It starts to remind me of synthetic turf.

I'll need a follow up app of T-Nex and maybe a fungicide this week as well.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

*8/15:*
0.35 oz/k T-Nex
0.7 oz/k Abound (azoxy)

Scalped test plots today.

We're down to 0.57" on the lawn. Don't ask how I arrived at that number. Notable color loss but still looks pretty good all things considered.

I should be catching clippings because they are leaving quite a mess with how much I've been chopping off lately.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Looks good!

I vote for taking it down to 0.5inch in the entire yard. I'll do it too!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@JerseyGreens do it! I was going to wait until Labor Day, but these cool temps are too enticing. I'm debating 0.5 for the next mow. I have no self control :shock:

This evening I worked on getting the seed bed ready for the test plots. Deepest setting on Sun Joe scarifier - probably 10 passes moving very slowly. Raked up a mixture of dead grass, thatch, and the top layer of soil (sand heavy). I'll incorporate some new sand over the next couple of days to replace what I removed. I hope this is enough to break the prodiamine barrier.

The wife is already putting the kibosh on a possible future reno. This aggression will not stand, man!


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

How you liking the collars?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Wile said:


> How you liking the collars?


Still like them to an extent. They generate lots of compliments from the neighbors. But I do miss that clean, low cut edge around my beds. It's also a little annoying to need two mowers.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

bf7 said:


> *It's also a little annoying to need two mowers.*


...said no one ever


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

lbb091919 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > *It's also a little annoying to need two mowers.*
> ...


😆 I know, this is total lawn sacrilege.


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

I'm in a love/hate relationship with them as well right now. They grow too fast and I need to get a battery powered rotary to keep up. I do have my in-field trees edged out so that I can mow low around them. Digging our the turf was a pain though. Since both my neighbors mulched half their yard, it made sense to do my beds and their beds with taller grass.

Just wait till you need to adjust your mower for the green, fringes and roughs. Then, you're raking the bunkers...


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

lbb091919 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > *It's also a little annoying to need two mowers.*
> ...


Wrong, my wife has said that too many times for me to count.


----------



## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

jskierko said:



> lbb091919 said:
> 
> 
> > bf7 said:
> ...


Agreed. I sold 3 mowers this year and I still can't park in the garage....Not all my fault [cough] kids toys [cough]. But she was starting to give me some ultimatums on the mower "parking lot." Then, I told her I need to get a small battery one back....you may never hear from me again ya'll.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

jskierko said:


> lbb091919 said:
> 
> 
> > ...said no one ever
> ...


Ha! You got me there. My wife said if I get a raise I could reno the backyard. A conversation with my boss was had.



Wile said:


> Agreed. I sold 3 mowers this year and I still can't park in the garage....Not all my fault [cough] kids toys [cough]. But she was starting to give me some ultimatums on the mower "parking lot." Then, I told her I need to get a small battery one back....you may never hear from me again ya'll.


I'm at 4 mowers if you count the Little Tikes Commercial unit and seriously considering buying an aerator. I really need that raise haha


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Wile
@jskierko
@lbb091919

My wife said I can replace the yard next year, but I'll have to replace her first.

My response: let's see how the test plots turn out LOL


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

But that guy on the internet forum said I should!


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

bf7 said:


> @Wile
> @jskierko
> @lbb091919
> 
> ...


I'm 💀 lol


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

I love the collars! Not that I would suggest replacing the JD, but a Swardman can quickly adjust up to a 1.77" HOC, for those collars. It's not in my budget, but I would love to have one for that reason. You could also use it for the aprons, too. :lol:

Yup, I had to go there!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Chris LI said:


> I love the collars! Not that I would suggest replacing the JD, but a Swardman can quickly adjust up to a 1.77" HOC, for those collars. It's not in my budget, but I would love to have one for that reason. You could also use it for the aprons, too. :lol:
> 
> Yup, I had to go there!


:lol: don't get me started on "not in my budget but would love to have" items. We'll be here all day.

On the creeping bent, I was thinking if I could somehow pull off like 0.33" and then set the JD at max (I believe 1.125") for the collar, there may be enough height difference for it to not look accidental. Only one mower, but then again there is the matter of adjusting HOCs in between.

I'm getting way ahead of myself.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Next year my robot mower will do the collars and I'll do the fairways. If I get a reel mower that is.


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> Next year my robot mower will do the collars and I'll do the fairways. If *When* I get a reel mower that is.


 :thumbup:


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Haha! I did sell my JD for $6,000, need to start seriously looking for a jd greens mower.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> Haha! I did sell my JD for $6,000, need to start seriously looking for a jd greens mower.


I bought my greens mower for $1k.

So basically you can turn a $5k profit while making your lawn into a golf course. What are you waiting for??

No pressure.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> > Haha! I did sell my JD for $6,000, need to start seriously looking for a jd greens mower.
> ...


Woah, woah woah! If i get a greensmower for $1k, you best bet i'm spending the other $5k on additional lawn tools. =)


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Due for an update...

*8/28:*
Seed down on the plots. Final gly, scarify, seed, raked in with garden weasel, rolled with greens mower, peat. No tenacity since bent doesn't like it. There was a lot of clover that popped up during the week of fallowing. I put up a landscaping border to help prevent seeds from moving between the plots and into the yard.

Bent seeded at 1.5 lbs/k and KBG at 3 lbs/k. The KBG seed was tested in 2018 so germ could be spotty. I wanted to seed the bent at 1 lb/k, but the tiny seeds came out of the spreader (lowest setting) so fast I had to add more.



If you want a thunderstorm, throw down some grass seed, obviously. Several major downpours the day after. Fortunately since it's only 300 sq ft, I was able to cover it with a plastic painters drop cloth I picked up at Lowes.

As for the yard, it didn't like when I cut it down to 1/2", but it'll have to suck it up for the next couple of weeks. Taking a while to recover since PGR hasn't worn off, and I haven't started fall nitrogen yet. Hoping to aerate this weekend.



Don't get too close


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

Are you doing anything special on the edges of your "rough"? The transition between the rough and the fairway looks so clean.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

jskierko said:


> Are you doing anything special on the edges of your "rough"? The transition between the rough and the fairway looks so clean.


Thanks. Nothing special really. I just ride up as close to the edge as I can with the reel mower. Inevitably I end up hitting the rough with the reel sometimes, and it looks BAD when that happens. But overall I think the benefit of the clean transition outweighs that negative.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

I already caved on the pumpkin lattes, so it's about time to kick off fall festivities.

Goal is 2 lbs of N in September. We'll see how that goes.

0.3 lbs/k of N - Humic coated urea (foliar)

*Macro totals 2022:*
Nitrogen - 2.25 lbs/k
Phosphorus - 1.5 lbs/k
Potassium - 2 lbs/k

Creeping bentgrass babies in 3.5 days 👏 


Before today I never noticed I had foot tall KBG in the back. This is what it looks like


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

bf7 said:


> I already caved on the pumpkin lattes, so it's about time to kick off fall festivities.
> 
> Goal is 2 lbs of N in September. We'll see how that goes.
> 
> ...


I bought some pumpkin spice yogurt pretzels from costco....call me a basic b!tch. Sweet to see germination. How small were those seeds?


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

I had my first Octoberfest beer on August 31st,lol.

I love the wispy foot tall kbg. Now that's a "rough" height.

Your fairway edges doo look tight, it's not fair though, you own the grass on both sides of the line. My neighbors 4" lawn salad and my rotary mowed 1.5" doesn't look great, but I've been keeping a darn straight line.

Happy Labor day weekend to ya'll.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Wile 😅😅 that's a whole new level of BWG. Love it!

Left is bent, middle is KBG, right is TTTF. I think there are 6M seeds/lb.


Check this out...4 days after seed!


Nada KBG germ as of yet under similar conditions. The KBG plot does get more shade.

@steffen707 happy labor day sir. No shame! I started seeing the beers in stores in July.

The fairway/rough transition also looks cleaner as you bring the fairway height down or the roughs up. Currently the fairway is very low.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

That bentgrass is coming up and not messing around. Do you think the bent will just choke out all of the KBG over time?


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

That's crazy the size difference. Sweet to see it already doing so well.

@steffen707 I'm jealous. I didn't see any when I was at Costco... gotta head over to Meijer and grab some.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> @Wile 😅😅 that's a whole new level of BWG. Love it!
> 
> Left is bent, middle is KBG, right is TTTF. I think there are 6M seeds/lb.
> 
> ...


Woah! That's some tiny seed, and some fast results.

I saw you added a boarder to stop the bent from spreading into the lawn. How do golf courses keep bentgrass on the greens?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@JerseyGreens good question. I'm thinking it will choke out the young KBG plot next to it. Not sure how it will interact with the established KBG though. I read that the texture and colors are so different that they just don't mesh as a mix. Then I watched a video of a superintendent talking about the cultivar I picked and called it "aggressive" even compared to other bent varieties. If everything goes south, I'm mentally preparing myself to nuke the backyard and try all bent or KBG mono next year.

@steffen707 the borders are to prevent the seed from washing anywhere it shouldn't (more concerned with KBG seed washing into bent plot right now). I'll most likely take them down when germ is complete. I want to be able to get the JD on/off the plots easily and return to looking like a yard.

No clue what the courses do. I've wondered that myself. Regular tenacity on the surrounding non-bent areas?


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

bf7 said:


> No clue what the courses do. I've wondered that myself. Regular tenacity on the surrounding non-bent areas?


Prodiamine and dithiopyr are labeled "not for use on putting greens" or list every area to use, but not include putting greens. I'm not sure, but maybe Tenacity plus regular PreM may be the tactics to keep the bentgrass in check. Combined with the higher HOC, that may do the trick.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

0.3 lbs/k of N - Humic coated urea (foliar)

*Macro totals 2022:*
Nitrogen - 2.55 lbs/k (total fall 0.6 lbs)
Phosphorus - 1.5 lbs/k
Potassium - 2 lbs/k

The long grass was showing fert burn from the last spray. The tips turned a nasty brown and growth was stunted for a while. I may have been too aggressive with carrier volume (0.9 G/k). I upped it to 1.3 G/k. It hate going through 3 backpacks per app but I hate brown tips even more.

*Test plots*

Crystal Bluelinks Bent: 10 DAS / 6 DAG
Prosperity KBG: 10 DAS / 1 DAG

Last week was apparently the worst time ever to start any kind of seeding project. Torrential, windy downpour day after seed and then a relentless Labor Day weekend - one bad storm after another. I think over 3 inches of rain from just the weekend and definitely not the gradual kind. I was able to cover the plots for the first couple of storms, but I just couldn't be home for all of them. Ended up getting a lot of washout - many uprooted seedlings in the bent plot. Actually had more grass several days ago. Likely going to drop more seed in the worst bent spots tomorrow and wait a few days for the KBG. So glad I'm not doing a full reno right now.



Bent




KBG


I was able to aerate the yard on Saturday. But I wasn't able to collect the cores until Sunday. Of course, one of those monsoons happened overnight. The rain made the collection process very muddy and unpleasant. But it's done now, and the yard is looking much better at the 0.57" HOC.

Billy Goat 18" reciprocating style












Mason sand has been ordered and going down this weekend - 6 tons. Time to fill up those little holes.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 nice Billy Goat. I'd like to buy one someday.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Jeff_MI84 said:


> @bf7 nice Billy Goat. I'd like to buy one someday.


I liked it. I think it did less damage than the drum style.

To each his own. I could never justify the cost to buy for how rarely I use them. I'd rather have another reel mower.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> Jeff_MI84 said:
> 
> 
> > @bf7 nice Billy Goat. I'd like to buy one someday.
> ...


I wanna rent a Toro ride along aerator next year. The Billy goat I rented last year didn't have enough oomph to pull deep plugs from my more hard/dry areas. Figure 1-3 neighbors can split the cost and get all the yards done quickly.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@steffen707 I watered the day before and got good plugs all over. Ride along would be nice but probably too big for my front yard.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> @steffen707 I watered the day before and got good plugs all over. Ride along would be nice but probably too big for my front yard.


Yeah, but your yard is immaculate and i'm sure your soil is tip-top. =)

My backyard has quite a few trees. I'll definitely make sure to water the day before. I don't think I did that last time.

Also the Toro rental place is only 30 min away. The only place I could find with a Billy Goat like yours was 90 mins away.

*YES*, I drove 90 min *ONE WAY* to rent that specific aerator, and although it pulls great plugs in normal soil, I had issues in my backyard. It was a dream to operate though. I wanted to try it out because I had it in my head I might buy one.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Do you still have the machine? Do more holes. Like 4 passes.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

To achieve 5% affected surface area you would need 3.5 passes with that unit


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@g-man I did 2 passes over the majority of the yard and 4 passes in areas where water pools easily. The first two pics showing cores were taken after 1 pass. I forgot to take another pic after I was done. Probably could have benefited from more but I was physically beat and had to return the aerator that day.

@lbb091919 is 5% the magic number to shoot for?

@steffen707 thanks! I specifically wanted the PLUGR and drove 30 min for it. I wouldn't go much further than that.

I really want to rent one of these for my sanding project but can't find it anywhere.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> @g-man I did 2 passes over the majority of the yard and 4 passes in areas where water pools easily. The first two pics showing cores were taken after 1 pass. I forgot to take another pic after I was done. Probably could have benefited from more but I was physically beat and had to return the aerator that day.
> 
> @lbb091919 is 5% the magic number to shoot for?
> 
> ...


There's a place about 60 min from me that has an ecolawn 250 for rent. Whenever/if I do a sand leveling project,, I'm going to rent one.

I've also been eyeing up some atv pull behind sand spreaders on alibaba. Minimum order is two units though. Need to find somebody more local to go halfsies on it with me. 
https://m.alibaba.com/product/1600085969892/product.html

Hey @ReelWILawn, you interested? Sorry @bf7 for the mini thread jack.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

@bf7 Not necessarily, I think the recommendation for greens is 15-20%.

I did 10% (6 passes) with a LawnAire IV on last year's reno and it was pretty beat up. I'd never do that on turf I wanted to keep, at least with that style aerator. I'm shooting for 5% this year with my reciprocating one just to see how I like it and will adjust from there.

I went down an aerification rabbit hole last year and made this handy little calculator. Plugging (pun intended) in the specs of that Billy Goat comes out to just over 3.5 passes for 5%. So you were actually right at it on those areas where the water pools.



Roughly how much did you water the day before? I still haven't figured out how much I want to put down.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

lbb091919 said:


> @bf7 Not necessarily, I think the recommendation for greens is 15-20%.
> 
> I did 10% (6 passes) with a LawnAire IV on last year's reno and it was pretty beat up. I'd never do that on turf I wanted to keep, at least with that style aerator. I'm shooting for 5% this year with my reciprocating one just to see how I like it and will adjust from there.
> 
> ...


Dude, you're an aeration encyclopedia lol. That calculator is sweet.

I watered 0.3-0.5 inches the day before. Though I doubt it was necessary with regular irrigation all summer. It was insurance more than anything. If you have one, maybe stick one of those soil moisture meters in the ground.


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## ReelWILawn (Aug 29, 2021)

this is amazing! Looking great 👍

Really intersted in all the aeration talk. Having just done the same last weekend, it's a fun sight with the cores all over the place. Lucky you were able to find the Billy Goat even in your area. I've searched all over the place and no one rents those. All I was able to find where the crappy drum style ones from local rental shops. That's when I started looking on Facebook Marketplace over the last year. I think you did the right amount, as @lbb091919 stated with his experience with the LawnAire , I think once you start to get above 5% really the turf can start to get beat up even with these better home reciprocating models

@steffen707 Yes! I would love to find sometype of home sand top dresser. I am constatnly looking for something that would work for me. I looked into renting the EcoLawn 250 from a rental place in West Bend, but they quoted me over $500. Not having access to a truck/trailer it was something like $300 for delivery. I passed, and spread 7 tons with my lawn tractor, gorilla cart, shovels, and a rake.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Thanks @ReelWILawn!

I spent more time than I'm comfortable admitting hunting down that model. Having tried both now, I'll say if you're working in tight spaces with lots of turns, reciprocating style is king. The drum kicked the crap out of my tiny front yard last year. However in the wide open back yard, I didn't notice much of any difference. One negative of the reciprocating style is that you need to remember to start moving before engaging the tines. Otherwise you're taking out chunks of sod.

$500 for the Eco huh? Guess I can start my back stretches and stock up on Advil now lol


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

⛱ *Topdressing update* ⛱

Spread about 5 tons over 6k so far, mostly on Saturday. Weather wasn't ideal - overcast and some rain. The sand came fairly wet and never fully dried out. It was difficult to spread and muddy.

There are some low spots where the turf is buried, probably larger than a dinner plate size. Not much I can do to work it down because it's so wet. Hopefully it will push through.

Tools used: scoop shovel, gorilla cart, spade shovel, R&R level rake





*9/10:*









*9/12:*


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## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

Your neighbor with the swimming pool is giving you a run for the money!


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> ⛱ *Topdressing update* ⛱
> 
> Spread about 5 tons over 6k so far,


Dangggggg. You guys and this hand spreading. i'm putting this off until i can move stuff with gas or electric power! Great workout, love the aerials. Did you aerate before spreading, or just spread?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@situman his grass or his concrete? 

@steffen707 I'm a human backhoe.

I aerated the previous weekend.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> @situman his grass or his concrete?
> 
> @steffen707 I'm a human backhoe.
> 
> I aerated the previous weekend.


oh that's right with the billy goat. DUH! sorry, everybodys lawn care is molding into 1 gelatinous cube in my head.


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## ReelWILawn (Aug 29, 2021)

Looks really good, great job! Having just completed this 7 days ago I appreciate the work :thumbup:


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Dude amazing job for the second year in a row. You completed this without a drag mat hooked up to a mower!? Props for that.

Heads up - since you and I both started our sand capping journeys with similar mason sand last year, we should continue using the same type of sand. I read some research that if we start using different grades of sand it will create layers and potential for issues down the road.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> Dude amazing job for the second year in a row. You completed this without a drag mat hooked up to a mower!? Props for that.
> 
> Heads up - since you and I both started our sand capping journeys with similar mason sand last year, we should continue using the same type of sand. I read some research that if we start using different grades of sand it will create layers and potential for issues down the road.


Thanks man! It may be too early to assess, but I'm still seeing some undulations that I don't like. I have another 1.5 tons that I'm going to gradually work into the trouble spots over the next month.

That's good to know on the sand type. I used mason sand from the same place I got it last year fortunately. Though unfortunate that I'd never be able to upgrade to USGA spec if it becomes available.

Yours already looks like a straight billiard table so you might not ever need it again!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Oh no man, I've had settling happen over this past year for sure. It definitely doesn't have any major dips but has it's low spots.

Exhibit A: after 0.7 inches of rain in 15 minutes


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

JerseyGreens said:


> Dude amazing job for the second year in a row. You completed this without a drag mat hooked up to a mower!? Props for that.
> 
> Heads up - since you and I both started our sand capping journeys with similar mason sand last year, we should continue using the same type of sand. I read some research that if we start using different grades of sand it will create layers and potential for issues down the road.


AND TURN INTO CONCRETE!!!, naww i'm just joking, but that's what I've read many times.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> Oh no man, I've had settling happen over this past year for sure. It definitely doesn't have any major dips but has it's low spots.
> 
> Exhibit A: after 0.7 inches of rain in 15 minutes


YIKES. I can't imagine any yard would be looking too hot after that insanity.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Yikes is right &#129315;. I haven't been able to get straight stripes since that downpour...

To the followers of the great journal here is an excellent article on sand topdressing:

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/course-care/green-section-record/57/9/light-and-frequent-topdressing-programs.html


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## ReelWILawn (Aug 29, 2021)

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> > Dude amazing job for the second year in a row. You completed this without a drag mat hooked up to a mower!? Props for that.
> ...


There is some good sand conversation here! First nerding out on aerators and now sand  I'll leave this link here for some light reading about what sand to use and what may, or better yet may not happen when using two or more sand materials....
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/h.../light-and-frequent-topdressing-programs.html

couple takeaways I took from the article. I have referenced a few paragraphs and put those in quotation below.

"Field observations and research demonstrate that two or more sand materials can provide an effective greens topdressing program. One type of sand can be used for aeration and topdressing when playability is not a priority - e.g., using a coarse sand to topdress greens prior to winter dormancy or during overseeding. Another, less coarse sand could be used for routine topdressing when minimizing disruption to playability is important. Concerns with using two different sand materials for topdressing greens will be discussed later in this article. "

"Fear of layering - Topdressing with sand with few or no particles greater than 1 mm in diameter and only 10 to 40 percent in the coarse sand fraction (0.5-1.0 mm) is not a concern. Removing this larger sand fraction will not create agronomic problems such as increased moisture retention and reduced infiltration rate. However, topdressing with sand with greater than 25 percent fine material (0.15-0.25 mm) could potentially lead to increased moisture at the surface of the greens. Superintendents are encouraged to collect soil cores and analyze for physical characteristics every few years to monitor putting green performance."

(My thoughts)I personally would not rule out *never *being able to use greens grade USGA spec sand after using Mason sand. Mason sand is typically a medium to coarse sand which is why it's a great alterative to 'USGA Spec' because is similar. What is nice or the goal of being able to find and use USGA spec sand is that that the consistency should be the same or very close to what you would get from multiple different deliveries year after year. Mason sand typically has a larger window of variance and if we think where we typically get this product from, I would question 'is it really to the same exact spec to what i received last time?' - probably not. Now, I would agree that you should stay away from mixing completely different types of sands all the time and it's best to remain consistent if you can and it's really only an issue if you use super fine sand - greater than 25% fine material 0.15-0.25 where USGA spec sand usually has less than 20% of this fine material anway. But if you just started top dressing 1 or 2 years with mason sand I wouldn't be too concerned if i switched to USGA spec. Anyway, all it takes is for the individual loading to make a mistake and mix different types of sand together by mistake and then all this is a moot point anway :lol: This article is a good read and we should take this with a grain of salt as they are talking about greens that use sand at construction, but just something to think about

in conclusion-
"Sand topdressing is the most important cultural practice for managing organic matter. Recent research confirms the benefits of light and frequent sand topdressing programs that provide less immediate disruption, better playing conditions, and better rootzone characteristics over time. It is critical to asses putting green performance and the quality of the rootzone to determine if circumstances warrant an accelerated program for improvement beyond what is possible with light and frequent topdressing. Regardless of the selected topdressing program, silica sand is preferred because of its tolerance to weathering. Aeration backfill should closely match the physical characteristics of the sand used at construction, but routine topdressing sand can be somewhat less coarse to ease incorporation and reduce wear on mowers. Ongoing research suggests that this will not impede infiltration or cause an overly wet surface."


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

ReelWILawn said:


> There is some good sand conversation here! First nerding out on aerators and now sand  I'll leave this link here for some light reading about what sand to use and what may, or better yet may not happen when using two or more sand materials....
> https://www.usga.org/content/usga/h.../light-and-frequent-topdressing-programs.html


did you just post the same link as @JerseyGreens ? That's funny. Apparently its a good article. =)


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

JerseyGreens said:


> Yikes is right 🤣. I haven't been able to get straight stripes since that downpour...
> 
> To the followers of the great journal here is an excellent article on sand topdressing:
> 
> https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/course-care/green-section-record/57/9/light-and-frequent-topdressing-programs.html


I just finished the article...... Lots about sand! A couple things I'm wondering, if golf courses put out that much sand on their greens each year, doesn't the height of the green rise? Do they ever have to relevel the green because it's now too tall? Like scraping off a few inches of the "hill" that has been created?
Since you guys started the sand top dressing, how often are you going to (dare I say need to) core aerate and re-sand?


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## ReelWILawn (Aug 29, 2021)

@steffen707 my mistake I completely missed that the article was already shared (long day). O well, lots of good info.

Golf courses and sports field are top dressed much more frequently with very light amounts. For fear of re sharing something, if my memory is correct USGA has another article titled something to the affect of Goldilocks of top dressing that explains that. Golf courses and sports fields have the option to cut out sod or completely rebuild a green, fairway, or field if absolutely necessary.

Really interested in what the rest do or what their plans are. For me I will plan on aerating and a heavier top dress every fall (schedule permitting). I would also like to incorporate a light top dressing in late spring if I can.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

@ReelWILawn ,its all good, I thought it was a great coincidence.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

We've officially taken over this journal and are "playing in the sandbox"...

I'll note from following plenty of successful journals out there that don't play with sand... Aerating/sand topdressing is not necessary for a tier 3 lawn, it's a nice-to-have with reel mowing with many beneficial outcomes.

Not mandatory by any means otherwise it would be in @g-man's Cool Season Guide.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

JerseyGreens said:


> We've officially taken over this journal and are "playing in the sandbox"...
> 
> I'll note from following plenty of successful journals out there that don't play with sand... Aerating/sand topdressing is not necessary for a tier 3 lawn, it's a nice-to-have with reel mowing with many beneficial outcomes.
> 
> Not mandatory by any means otherwise it would be in @g-man's Cool Season Guide.


Sorry @bf7, if you want me to take this discussion off your thread I can, but until you tell me to.....

If Guy A has a tier 3 lawn with no aerating/sand top dressing

and Guy B has an identical tier 3 lawn but does 2-3 rounds of aerating/sand topdressing, then stops and doesn't do it anymore...............

what problems will Guy B have that Guy A wouldn't?...................................I know aerating then sand topdressing is beneficial in many ways, but i'm not sure I want to do it every year or every few years. What issues would I have in stopping the regimen?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Thanks gents for the input! @JerseyGreens @ReelWILawn that article was a very satisfying read. I wonder if there's a version out there geared more toward fairways than putting greens. That would really get me hot and bothered.

@steffen707 I don't mind at all. My understanding is that once you topdress with a coarse type soil (such as sand), it's not a good idea to topdress again with any finer type soil in the future (such as silt or clay). At that point you're creating distinct layers and restricting water movement down to the roots, since the top layer is going to hold mositure. It can also result in fungus issues. Again, this is just my layman understanding. Experts, feel free to call out any BS. But I think this is what the article is trying to say in the "fear of layering" section. The only difference is they are talking about different types of sand, whereas I'm talking about different types of soils, which I assume only magnifies the impact of their point and is probably the type of layering you'd be most worried about in a home lawn.

As @ReelWILawn suggested, mason sand and USGA type sand are likely close enough for it not to matter. Especially because we don't have finely manicured greens.

The way I see it Guy B would have a couple of problems 1) if he wants to level his lawn, he's stuck using sand instead of topsoil, unless the yard is tilled up or the sand layer is somehow removed. And 2) his soil surface will dry out more easily in drought conditions. Also if he wants to reno, he'll have a harder time keeping his seed moist.

Outside of that, I can't think of any problems you would have by simply stopping the sand regimen after doing it a few times.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> I wonder if there's a version out there geared more toward fairways than putting greens.


I was wondering the same thing, as my lawn will eventually be fairway height, not greens height.



bf7 said:


> My understanding is that once you topdress with a coarse type soil (such as sand), it's not a good idea to topdress again with any finer type soil in the future (such as silt or clay).


Makes good sense. I wouldn't plan to topdress with any other type of soil in the future; however, if you plug aerate after a sandcapping, then you have to pull those cores off the lawn or else the under soil will create a new layer, right?
So i guess it could be said, once you start aerating and sand top dressing, you have to sand topdress any future aerations?


bf7 said:


> As @ReelWILawn suggested, mason sand and USGA type sand are likely close enough for it not to matter. Especially because we don't have finely manicured greens.


Well.......they're finely manicured pretty short lawns, but yes, not greens. don't cut yourself short, :thumbup:


bf7 said:


> And 2) his soil surface will dry out more easily in drought conditions


I thought that was part of the point of introducing the sand though, is to have the nutrients get to the roots more easily and to let the surface dry out to reduce fungus possibilities? I guess its a double edged sword though. In drought conditions it could be bad.


bf7 said:


> Also if he wants to reno, he'll have a harder time keeping his seed moist.


for shits and giggles I threw down some seed on a sandy area that gets poor light, and no water except from mother nature. I watered it by hand maybe twice this reno, and low and behold, there are grass babies there. NEAT! with a sprinkler on it, i bet it would have germinated a bunch of that seed. OH, and I didn't even scarify, rake, or roll that spot, just seed on sand with a light topping of peatmoss.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@steffen707 I would never leave the cores on a short cut lawn. The effort required to rake them up is well worth it. I think it could be a bumpy mess and defeat the purpose of levelling. Running over plugs would wear down your reel blade and bedknife. Once you start mowing, they could get smashed back down into the holes. You want the holes exposed for the sand.

I seeded my test plots directly into sand and they germinated just fine. Granted, it's a heavily shaded location with a sprinkler on it.

Speaking of *Test Plots*...

Crystal Bluelinks Bent: 17 DAS / 13 DAG
Prosperity KBG: 17 DAS / 8 DAG

Not sure what I'm getting myself into here - the bent looks like neon grass. I reseeded the bent after the aforementioned washouts and up came more babies in 4 days. It's filling in nicely now, actually could be a little too thick. Not much vertical growth yet, at least not enough for a mow. Should be ready for N soon.

The KBG looks better too. Germ is fairly even but thin. I attribute that to the 4 year old seed and washout. I think I'm going to add a bit more KBG seed.

*Bent*







*KBG*





Along the house is where KBG germination was perfect because it's covered by the roof hanging over the siding. I assume the whole plot would look like that without any rain. This is why washout sucks, but I'm preaching to the choir


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

That's like cartoon lawn green. I kinda like it, not for my whole yard, but you know.

That grass by siding is so pronounced, what a difference.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> That's like cartoon lawn green. I kinda like it, not for my whole yard, but you know.
> 
> That grass by siding is so pronounced, what a difference.


I like it too because it's unique. I'm interested in stuff that you don't see in a regular lawn. Doesn't need to be dark green. But it's 2 weeks old, who knows what it will look like even a month from now.

Forgot to note my app today.

0.3 lbs/k of N - Urea (foliar)

*Macro totals 2022:*
Nitrogen - 2.85 lbs/k (total fall 0.9 lbs)
Phosphorus - 1.5 lbs/k
Potassium - 2 lbs/k

Want to get some K down soon.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> > That's like cartoon lawn green. I kinda like it, not for my whole yard, but you know.
> ...


I'm assuming it'll look like most golf course greens?

You could always plant Roughstalk Bluegrass........... :lol: 


???
People actually overseed with poa trivialis?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> I'm assuming it'll look like most golf course greens?
> 
> You could always plant Roughstalk Bluegrass........... :lol:
> 
> ...


😂 you know it's bad when some of the top cultivars are called Fuzzy and LSD.

I'm not cutting at greens height, so I'd like to think the color will look better around 1/2 - 3/4".

After all, this was my inspiration. The collar around JP's putting green is the same bentgrass as the green. Look at the color difference.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

⛱ *Topdressing update* ⛱

6 days post sand cap.

Mowed with the Great States. Worried about sand dulling the JD blade. The carpet look is back, temporarily.

It's getting there...no rain in 5 days may be slowing things down. I haven't watered it.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Looks like you got a bunch of extra sand in the driveway?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> Looks like you got a bunch of extra sand in the driveway?


There's about 1.5 tons left, and I only need 0.5-1 for spot leveling. First come first serve.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like you got a bunch of extra sand in the driveway?
> ...


Make a sand trap!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > steffen707 said:
> ...


If only sand was the only requirement for a sand trap...


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Tried to get this app in right before some rain and it worked out perfectly.

*9/18*
0.3 lbs/k of N - Urea (granular)
0.5 lbs/k of P - TSP
0.5 lbs/k of K - SOP
0.5 lbs/k of K - MOP

*9/19*
0.185 oz/k of prodiamine (3 month rate)
6 oz/k of Air 8
6 oz/k of RGS

*Macro totals 2022:*
Nitrogen - 3.15 lbs/k (total fall 1.2 lbs)
Phosphorus - 2 lbs/k
Potassium - 3 lbs/k


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## livt0ride (Jan 10, 2021)

Crazy color on your baby bent for a bentgrass that is supposed to be a blue-green color. I'm sure it will get dark. Have you cut it yet? what HOC are you going to keep it at? Sorry if I missed that.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

livt0ride said:


> Crazy color on your baby bent for a bentgrass that is supposed to be a blue-green color. I'm sure it will get dark. Have you cut it yet? what HOC are you going to keep it at? Sorry if I missed that.


Thanks man, I tried to pick a cultivar that would be fairly close to KBG. Sort of the opposite of what you were looking for in your green. The color looks great with some dew in the morning (to me, anyway). Most of the day it's pretty bright green but suspect it will get darker since it's only baby grass.

I would be maintaining at fairway/tee heights. Yesterday I cut it at 5/8 with the manual reel. Will be giving it the first shot of N soon.


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## ReelWILawn (Aug 29, 2021)

outstanding how quick it's recovering from the top dressing


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

0.3 lbs/k of N - Urea (foliar)
2 oz/k FEature - front yard
7 oz/k FeRROMEC AC - back yard

*Macro totals 2022:*
Nitrogen - 3.45 lbs/k (total fall 1.5 lbs)
Phosphorus - 2 lbs/k
Potassium - 3 lbs/k

⛱ Topdressing update ⛱

13 days post sand cap and we're in the clear with recovery. Still doing minor spot levelling. 220B used for the last two mows. Ground is definitely more smooth than it was before, but there is still work to be done for sure.







*Test Plots*

Crystal Bluelinks Bent: 26 DAS / 22 DAG
Prosperity KBG: 26 DAS / 17 DAG

So far I've put down 0.5 lbs/k of N on the bent (0.3 granular on 9/19 and 0.2 spray on 9/23) and 0.2 lbs/k spray on the KBG.

KBG is lagging behind but starting to fill in. I think it's struggling to establish in the heavy shade. Plots are facing north.

I've mowed the bent 3 times so far with Great States at 5/8. Not a ton of clippings but coming along.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

*9/28*
0.3 lbs/k of N - Urea (foliar) on the yard
0.25 lbs/k of N - Urea (spray/watered in) test plots

*N totals 2022:*
Yard - 3.75 lbs/k (total fall 1.8 lbs)
Test plots - 0.75 lbs/k bent; 0.45 lbs/k KBG

It's been cold with days hovering in the 50s and some light frost at night. Feels like an early winter. Last year I was mowing into mid-Dec and I don't see that happening.

Remnants of Ian are going to spoil outdoor activities for most of the weekend.

I've neglected sharing the front yard in recent memory, 0.5".


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 your front yard bounced back very nicely.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Jeff_MI84 said:


> @bf7 your front yard bounced back very nicely.


It's hard to believe that was 3 months ago when the lawn was torched. It had mostly recovered within 1 month. KBG is tough.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 it came back stronger and the color this time of year, it really pops. Since you don’t have an irrigation system, when do you stop dragging the hose out?


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## Sfurunner13 (Feb 26, 2019)

Nice recovery!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Sfurunner13 @Jeff_MI84 thanks! I think I watered the lawn one time since beginning of Aug. It was the day before I aerated. I'm running a 50 ft hose along the back of my house to irrigate the test plots and just leave it there. So it's been a while since I've needed to drag anything around. I'm surely done for the season at this point.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

a lesser man would have just rounded off this section. looking great!


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> a lesser man would have just rounded off this section. looking great!
> View attachment 600


I am that lessor man


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## livt0ride (Jan 10, 2021)

Any updates on the bent? We need to see it coming in.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@steffen707 and @Wile clearly I have too much time on my hands.

@livt0ride pics tomorrow. It's growing super slow but I'm digging the bent. Softest grass I've ever walked on hands down.


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

It does look really cool. I have noticed my lazy man collars have grown a bit too much and lost some shape. Where as yours still look precisely where you started haha.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Wile my collars are messy now. It's hard to fit in a nice cadence of mows with these shorter days. I think the fairway sections are +1inch.

As promised here is the update on the plots.

Crystal Bluelinks Bent: 37 DAS / 33 DAG
Prosperity KBG: 37 DAS / 28 DAG

On Sunday 10/2 I put down 0.25 lbs N on the plots only. I think we're at 1 lb total for the bent and 0.7 lbs on KBG. Like 95% of the KBG is still in pout mode or just sprouted from reseeding. It's drinking up the nitrogen just fine. I'm not getting any tip burn like I did on my reno.

It doesn't show well on camera, but the bent is getting darker. The fact that it's surrounded by 2 year old KBG currently in prime time doesn't help either. I definitely seeded too heavy in spots (spreading those tiny seeds evenly is damn near impossible). The overcrowded spots are working themselves out.










Morning vs mid-day shots of the bent:



































Bonus shots of the overgrown lawn. This is my favorite time of year.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> @livt0rideSoftest grass I've ever walked on hands down.


wait, do you mean walking on the grass with your hands down? like a hand stand? I normally just walk on my feet.  The Bent is looking less neon. =)


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

0.3 lbs/k of N - Urea (foliar) on the yard
0.3 lbs/k of N - Urea (spray/watered in) test plots

*N totals 2022:*
Yard - 4.05 lbs/k (total fall 2.1 lbs)
Test plots - 1.3 lbs/k CBL; 1 lbs/k Prosperity









Crystal Bluelinks catching up to the mature KBG!


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Those roughs are insanely dark!!! [no more Mr. Green emoji, so I had to substitute 🤣 ].


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 that last aerial shot looks like the fake grass rug I have in the garage, dark green and short.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Chris LI for the most part I like the updates to the website, but not gonna lie, I will miss Mr Green and the "cheers" emojis...
I appreciate the dark comment. The secret ingredient is my leftover Sunshine Harvest (SGN 10,000,000) from last year 🤫

@Jeff_MI84 you mean it looks like that grass rug in your backyard man! You're cutting lower than me already!


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## BigRedGun (Oct 1, 2021)

@bf7 Are you still at 2” on the rough/fringe areas? I love the darkness. Looks great!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

BigRedGun said:


> @bf7 Are you still at 2” on the rough/fringe areas? I love the darkness. Looks great!


Thanks bud! The roughs are 2.5". Ideally they'd be at 2" but I get some scalping when I try to go lower for whatever reason. I think they look unkept at 3+ so 2.5 is a happy medium.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

bf7 said:


> @Chris LI for the most part I like the updates to the website, but not gonna lie, I will miss Mr Green and the "cheers" emojis...
> I appreciate the dark comment. The secret ingredient is my leftover Sunshine Harvest (SGN 10,000,000) from last year 🤫


So, I'm not the only one who saw a decent online price and got suckered into a SGN so large it should be measured in caliber. My batch would be on average be .22 to .25, with a couple of .32's and .38's here and there. There might have even been a scant few .44's🤣 I just used up most of mine, with the remaining to be melted down and sprayed.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Chris LI LOL sorry to dredge up a painful topic. I've been following the complaints in your journal.

I should have known that price was too good to be true. These prills are glorified Dippin Dots.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Moss outbreak in the Prosperity plot!

Put down 3 oz/k FeRROMEC AC in the plots only. Maybe we'll get a color response as a bonus. Threw 3 oz/k of RGS and Air8 in the tank for kicks.


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## Ben4Birdies (12 mo ago)

The first pic reminds me of some of Japanese gardens in Kyoto that I've seen where they were purposely growing moss like a delicate carpet.

Found these epic photos online. Big props if anyone on tlf has grown moss on purpose!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Ben4Birdies said:


> The first pic reminds me of some of Japanese gardens in Kyoto that I've seen where they were purposely growing moss like a delicate carpet.
> 
> Found these epic photos online. Big props if anyone on tlf has grown moss on purpose!
> View attachment 1253
> ...


😲
Moss monostand not exactly what I had in mind but I may need to reconsider if my iron app doesn't work!

Make that a "Mossostand"


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> 😲
> Moss monostand not exactly what I had in mind but I may need to reconsider if my iron app doesn't work!
> 
> Make that a "Mossostand"


i've sprayed my lawn 4-6 times with iron or FeATURE this season and it did nothing to the few mossy areas I have......I was planning to try Scott MossEx to kill it once and for all.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> i've sprayed my lawn 4-6 times with iron or FeATURE this season and it did nothing to the few mossy areas I have......I was planning to try Scott MossEx to kill it once and for all.


Ugh. What's the difference between MossEx and other iron products?


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> Ugh. What's the difference between MossEx and other iron products?


Oh, haha it's probably just iron, but I feel like since it's a Scott's EX product, it'll work,lol
Active ingredient:
*Ferrous sulfate monohydrate*: 17.50%

Moss out at Lowes has 32% of the same active ingredient. Same cost as MossEx, but it's available locally instead of Amazon. I'll try that in a few spots and let you know.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@steffen707 I use GrubEx every year and never had a bug problem. You may be onto something.

0.3 lbs/k of N - Urea on the yard and test plots

*N totals 2022:*
Yard - 4.35 lbs/k (total fall 2.4 lbs)
Test plots - 1.6 lbs/k CBL; 1.3 lbs/k Prosperity

I woke up early today to spray and definitely walked on frosted grass. But then the high reached 70F.

Being lazy and skipped mowing the roughs again. I don't really like rotary mowing.









This guy was creeping in the bentgrass.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

The Crystal Bluelinks is looking better everyday, although still not growing much. I'm really impressed so far. Hoping to get the 220B on it soon.

Prosperity ain't doing so hot. There is grass, but it's somewhat thin and engulfed in moss. Not even close to ready for a mow. I'm not sure if the moss is going to be a big problem. I had no issue growing grass in this area with the reno. For whatever reasons this year it's struggle city.

CBL

























Bentgrass / mature KBG side by side

















Prosperity

















Crystal Bluelinks Bent: 47 DAS / 43 DAG
Prosperity KBG: 47 DAS / 38 DAG


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Maybe too much shade/moisture for the Prosperity? It's way up in that corner. I love the shot of your buddy on the CBL, eyeballing you!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Chris LI said:


> Maybe too much shade/moisture for the Prosperity? It's way up in that corner. I love the shot of your buddy on the CBL, eyeballing you!


He was giving me the stink eye, big time. It was his fault for landing on my leg when I was mowing. Of course I freaked out!

I'm starting to wonder if it was mostly Moonlight or Blue Velvet back in this shady section. Prosperity is not having it. The plot started with a handicap this year being that it was seeded 11 days later than the reno and was 4 year old seed, but this pout phase is just unreal.

Reno status in this area on 9/20/20 1 month after seed. It was probably the most dense spot in the whole yard. Makes no sense.









Apparently this bentgrass is susceptible to major pout as well. Despite it looking great, the clipping volume is rather sad. I'd say 75% of the plot hasn't yet made contact with the mower blade. A little concerned about rust issues later on if growth doesn't pick up.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

This morning was the first hard freeze. Hard to believe because it has been so cold the past 1-2 weeks (high around 40-45F). Nice warmup is coming. I don't see another freeze in the 14 day forecast.

I'm behind on N apps. I did mow today though. HOC is 0.65" and planning to ride out the season with the waves.


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

You can use copper sulfate on the moss as well. Just have to dilute it enough. Everything looks💰 right now!


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> View attachment 2199


I love how your lawn is its own shade of green. Nobody's lawn comes close to that color. Reminds me of the 80's Disney live action Alice in Wonderland. Also, it looks like somebody just brushed a sheet of velvet. Very nice!

Hey, i was just listening to the lawn care nut, and he said "winterizer fert" should be put down just before snow in the northern climates so that in spring, after snow melts it instantly gets a boost.

I always thought you wanted the grass to intake those nutrients before the snow flies, so that the grass is ready for winter..........

What say you @bf7?


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## ReelWILawn (Aug 29, 2021)

Well done!!!! I really like the wave pattern. The recovery from the sand top dressing is amazing and the results make all the year's hard work worth it this time of the year.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Thanks guys!

@Wile Good tip - I'll keep that in mind. The iron seems to be turning the moss brown. I think it's working but it definitely takes some time. Maybe I could bump up the rate.









@steffen707 you compared my lawn to Alice in Wonderland last year too 😅 I always put down a heavy winterizer around Thanksgiving. I don't know if it helps or not, but I've been happy with spring green up. I do believe that the plant takes in more nutrients when actively growing (September is the key window and effectiveness decreases as the lawn shuts down). My winterizer is mostly an excuse to be out doing yard work one last time.

@ReelWILawn the wavy stripes are my fall tradition. I'm glad you enjoy.

















Catching up on recording apps.

Test plots - 10/16 and 10/24 - 0.3 lbs N and 3 oz FeRROMEC AC
Yard - 10/24 - 0.3 lbs N and 8 oz FeRROMEC AC (back) and 2 oz FEature (front)

*N totals 2022:*
Yard - 4.65 lbs/k (total fall 2.7 lbs)
Test plots - 1.9 lbs/k CBL; 1.6 lbs/k Prosperity


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Having fun with the summer in November. This is near record breaking stuff for the northern Pittsburgh region.









Lawn is starting to shut down in sections due to lack of sunlight, but the full sun areas are still going strong.

I have a new theory as to why the test plot development is so sluggish. I think there may have been some residual prodiamine in the soil (but not enough to kill all of the seedlings). I applied in early August then attempted to break the barrier before seeding. Maybe I didn't get a clean break. That could explain why density is so much greater along the walls where my sprayer wouldn't have reached with the pre-emergent. I don't spray all the way up to house.

Can seedlings remain alive (but still struggle) in soil with small amounts of prodiamine?

















In the Prosperity plot I'm moving plugs from along the wall, trying to salvage this experiment. It's disappointing that I might not be seeing the full potential of the grass types.

More bent

















HOC is 0.7"









































Test plots - 10/30 and 11/3 - 0.3 lbs N and 3 oz FeRROMEC AC
Yard - 11/3 - 0.3 lbs N

*N totals 2022:*
Yard - 4.95 lbs/k (total fall 3 lbs)
Test plots - 2.5 lbs/k CBL; 2.2 lbs/k Prosperity


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

That front though. 🤩


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Jeff_MI84 said:


> That front though. 🤩


Haha thanks, that's refreshing. Usually I get compliments on my rear end 😅


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

I know most people treat bentgrass as a weed, but have you ever seen a weed stripe like this? 😮























Sadly I think my prodiamine theory may be proving itself out. The 3 month app from 8/4 is running it's course, and lo and behold, the KBG plot is starting to grow and thicken up considerably. Also noticed a higher clipping yield on the bent. We'll see how far we can push before the season closes out.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

How low are you cutting the bent at? Killer stripes man!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> How low are you cutting the bent at? Killer stripes man!


Thanks! Almost took a few chunks out of the concrete wall with the transport axles. That mower is a wild animal.

The bent is at 0.7", same as the rest of the yard.


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

Man, that’s awesome. I have never seen a weed stripe like that, but have you ever seen stripes on weeeed….iykyk movie references. This will look great on your putting green next to your sand bunker 😉


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Wile said:


> Man, that’s awesome. I have never seen a weed stripe like, but have you ever seen stripes on weeeed….iykyk movie references. This will look great on your putting green next to your sand bunker 😉


 if only we could figure out a way to smoke this cultivar, I'd be in business!

If I ever get around to that green, I'm becoming more and more convinced that a surrounding bent fairway would look 👌 and no need to waste time chasing the bent out of other grass types.


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

It looks awesome. Would be sweet to see that in the yard as the fairway.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Switched up direction of mowing lines for the last time. Trying to burn these in so the old ones disappear. I like when they stick around until the spring.









Today could be the last spoon feeding, maybe one more. Winterizer (1 lb N granular) will go down around Thanksgiving.

Strangely, I haven't pulled one weed yet this fall. Not because I don't have them. There are a few poa patches. It's part laziness / part not being bothered enough by them.

Supposed to get heavy rain in a few days and then it will get cold again.

Test plots & yard - 0.3 lbs N

*N totals 2022:*
Yard - 5.25 lbs/k (total fall 3.3 lbs)
Test plots - 2.8 lbs/k CBL; 2.5 lbs/k Prosperity


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## ReelWILawn (Aug 29, 2021)

WOW 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

You have to step back sometimes and just say, "yeah this looks pretty good"


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@ReelWILawn thanks bud!


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Wile said:


> but have you ever seen stripes on weeeed….iykyk movie references.















bf7 said:


> if only we could figure out a way to smoke this cultivar, I'd be in business!


Oh man, if you could just mow it and bag the clippings.........🤑


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Man, that weather turned on a dime. A few snow squalls and now feels like it's all over.

The folks up north are getting hammered. Anyone in Buffalo?









Trying to wrap my head around the possibiltiy of being done almost a whole month earlier than last year. The ground is below freezing. Hoping I can still fit the winterizer in.

Before Antarctica:


----------



## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Sorry to see your season has basically ended. Our area warmed up a bit starting yesterday. Hopefully, it will trail far enough west to you, so you can get your winterizer down.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Thanks @Chris LI. We just entered a nice little stretch of 50s air temps / 40s soil temps and heavy rain predicted on Sunday. This weekend should be favorable for the winterizing crowd.

Gave the yard and test plot a Thanksgiving haircut - first time in 11 days. I'm thinking I'll get one more mow, most likely of the charity variety.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

steffen707 said:


> Oh, haha it's probably just iron, but I feel like since it's a Scott's EX product, it'll work,lol
> Active ingredient:
> *Ferrous sulfate monohydrate*: 17.50%
> 
> Moss out at Lowes has 32% of the same active ingredient. Same cost as MossEx, but it's available locally instead of Amazon. I'll try that in a few spots and let you know.


Not sure why, but the Scotts also has some lime (or other calcium) in it.



bf7 said:


> Thanks @Chris LI. We just entered a nice little stretch of 50s air temps / 40s soil temps and heavy rain predicted on Sunday. This weekend should be favorable for the winterizing crowd.
> 
> Gave the yard and test plot a Thanksgiving haircut - first time in 11 days. I'm thinking I'll get one more mow, most likely of the charity variety.
> View attachment 3936
> ...


Yup, same here. 40-50 soil temps. Ideal for the winterizer fert app. 

Grass looks great.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Thanks @Green!


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Man, that bent is looking good. Is it filling in the test plot already, or did you just have great even germination?
View attachment 3948


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> Man, that bent is looking good. Is it filling in the test plot already, or did you just have great even germination?
> View attachment 3948


👍 I agree, I like it. I'm very tempted to reno the backyard to bent (pending approval from the queen, and we'll see how the plot responds to disease pressure in early summer). I can tell it will never be as dark as the bluegrass, but there is something special about the color. Several courses use this cultivar as a monostand. This one is Holiday Farms which is outside of Indy:









There was some washout in the plot initially, but the area is so small - it was easy to stay on top of reseeding. I actually threw down too much seed, and it thinned out naturally throughout the fall. Now it looks nice and even.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Put down winterizer in the dark last night. 1 lb/k granular N with hand spreader. With only 5 settings (none of them ideal) it was difficult to get even spread. But I wasn't looking for surgical precision with this app.

Pretty good rain rolled in few hours later (didn't have rain gauge out). I think it's sufficiently watered in.









*N totals 2022:*
Yard - 6.25 lbs/k (total fall 4.3 lbs)
Test plots - 3.8 lbs/k CBL; 3.5 lbs/k Prosperity


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> Put down winterizer in the dark last night. 1 lb/k granular N with hand spreader. With only 5 settings (none of them ideal) it was difficult to get even spread. But I wasn't looking for surgical precision with this app.
> 
> Pretty good rain rolled in few hours later (didn't have rain gauge out). I think it's sufficiently watered in.
> View attachment 3983
> ...


So when does the grass start using that 1lb N? Does it use it now, or when it wakes up in the spring? Or some of both?

Is a whole pound of N in one application not a big deal because you did a granular application and it's time released?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> So when does the grass start using that 1lb N? Does it use it now, or when it wakes up in the spring? Or some of both?
> 
> Is a whole pound of N in one application not a big deal because you did a granular application and it's time released?


I think the goal is that it will be stored over winter and translate to quicker spring green up. So if you equate "using" the N to visible results, then that would happen next year. I expect little if any response now.

I did fast release. I'm not worried about burn because the lawn is getting ready to sleep and not taking in nutrients rapidly. If you think of dog peeing on the lawn in the winter, you don't see the spots until the spring - same concept.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@steffen707



bf7 said:


> I think the goal is that it will be stored over winter and translate to quicker spring green up. So if you equate "using" the N to visible results, then that would happen next year. I expect little if any response now.
> 
> I did fast release. I'm not worried about burn because the lawn is getting ready to sleep and not taking in nutrients rapidly. If you think of dog peeing on the lawn in the winter, you don't see the spots until the spring - same concept.


Based on studies by Soldat, et. al., if we are going to apply late season N (e.g. a final winterizing app), our N rate for it should be more like 0.25 lb of N than 1.0 lb, because very little can be taken up as the soil gets cold. I apply a bit more than this, but still fairly low. Another concern is that urea should be applied earlier than ammonium sulfate because its conversion is slowed (and stability increased) in soil temps that are cool (e.g. 40-50F). It behaves more like a slow release N source in such conditions (so it also will not burn unless you really over apply it), but can also leach before it's taken up if there is excessive rain. I did a comprehensive write-up on much of this in my own journal a few days ago when I applied my final Winterizing N application, and also discussed some related topics on N there over the last few weeks.

A second option (instead of pausing and then applying a final winterizer N app) is to spoon-feed with liquid apps of Urea (foliar) straight through from October or so until the end of the season, continually tapering the N rate downward and/or increasing the frequency between the apps. A bit more labor. But little waste. This is the method the research suggests. I don't have the time for this method, personally. They probably suggest it because the research was conducted in sand-based systems, which are more prone to N leaching than a typical native soil.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Green said:


> This is the method the research suggests.


Can you point to a study/research that suggest foliar N in winter? 




Green said:


> Based on studies by Soldat, et. al., if we are going to apply late season N (e.g. a final winterizing app), our N rate for it should be more like 0.25 lb of N than 1.0 lb,


I think Soldat study found that after applying 1lb of N/ksqft, only around 0.2lb of N/ksqft actually got inside the plant, the rest was wasted. This is mainly because the ET rate of the plant is very slow with cold temps and less sunlight (ET ~= mass/energy transfer rate). If water is not moving thru the plant, then it is not going to transport nitrogen. I have not read the study in a couple of years but that's what I remember from the study and a webcast.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@g-man

That was the gist of it from my memory as well. Lack of mass flow due to reduced ET rate resulted in less labeled N being taken up, and more of what was not used leaching. Of course, you can't necessarily definitively extrapolate much about other N rates or soil media types from it, other than the conditions they used. However, their suggestion, all things considered, was the reduction of N rate if you do plan to buck their recommendation and still apply late season N apps (even going so far as to do foliar apps at extremely low rates). That is the part I have followed (the reduction in N rate, but not the foliar part).

I have also moved the application date up by 2 weeks or so as of this year (closer to 50F soil temps) as well, in order to give the urea component of my fertilizer more time to convert to usable ammonium N, and for the plant to have more time to take up the direct ammoniacal N contained in my fert app as well (to help compensate for the lower uptake rate due to low ET). Essentially, the final app in my case becomes more of a "topping off" of the soil N before everything shuts down, (rather than a stand-alone app that I'm relying on in isolation).

Finally I've added AMS and methylene urea as well to help give even faster and slower N availability components, respectively, and to add some stability. (Basically, I'm using a product that is 50% AMS.) But keeping the N rate low is probably the most important part, since very little N gets utilized and the rest tends to get into the environment.

If I could also get something with a denitrification inhibitor only (but not a urease inhibitor), I would try that as well. Not sure if a urea product like that exists on the turf market, though. Usually, urea with a denitrification inhibitor also has a urease inhibitor (e.g. Uflexx), which I feel is probably contraindicated in low soil temps, as conversion to ammonium by urease is already slow.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@Green @g-man thanks for breaking it down guys. On the reduced uptake, that was the way I understood at a high level but didn't realize ET rate was the main driver. Very helpful to have the technical reasoning.

Agree 1lb is likely overkill and not the most envrionmentally thoughtful approach. Thinking I'll try a lower rate next year.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

g-man said:


> Can you point to a study/research that suggest foliar N in winter?


If memory serves me, that particular recommendation for downward N rate tapered foliar N apps during the mid to late Fall timeframe (right up until the growth stops--no "pause" needed because N rates are so low) was contained in the webinar on this topic on turfnet.

I believe osuturfman/R.D. has also mentioned this approach at some point. (He was one of the first people to bring up the results of those studies (on late season N having low uptake), and to bring multiple permutations and interpretations of those concepts to our attention, in any case, which I believe he did as far back as 2015, if not earlier, on another site, where he got some flack for it). I was already incorporating some enhanced efficiency N tweaks by that point in time, and learned a lot from his take on this topic after really dissecting it. He continues to educate us on this topic today.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

In summary, you cannot cheat mother nature. It is very easy to make a very complex scheme and believe those actions will yield the desired outcome. Foliar, AMS, methylene urea, or denitrification inhibitor are meaningless if the plant engine to move nitrogen thru is already shutting down (very low movement of thru the cells). The only remote potential is for some of the nitrogen to remain "frozen" in the soil thru winter and available in spring when it thaws. But this is a just a roll of the dice (warmer/rainy winter?). Far easier and more predictable to apply nitrogen in the spring.

Bf7, I wont continue to sidetrack your journal. The yard looks great.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Around here, I think most use lower N and high potassium for their "winterizer". Which is why I was surprised to see you used 1lb N /k. 

Anyway, whatever you're doing it's working. Any plans for next spring already?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

steffen707 said:


> Around here, I think most use lower N and high potassium for their "winterizer". Which is why I was surprised to see you used 1lb N /k.
> 
> Anyway, whatever you're doing it's working. Any plans for next spring already?


@jskierko @Butter, you put down 1lb+ N. Any thoughts on this subject?

I'm not sure why the winterizer branded ferts have high K because I've heard that late season K contributes to snow mold.

Next year I plan to potentially remove the roughs and reno some areas depending on how the test plots develop.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

No idea if this is right, but this is an exerpt from here:The Benefits Of Winterizing Your Lawn.

*What does potassium do for your lawn?*
Without potassium, your grass would have stunted growth and would be yellow. Potassium facilitates the internal processes of the plant's cells including photosynthesis, respiration, absorption of water and increases the production of protein. potassium helps maintain turgor pressure in the cells of the plant, resulting in a positive influence on drought tolerance, cold hardiness, and disease resistance. By applying potassium to the lawn, you are strengthening the plant tissue and preparing the grass for winter freezes.

I was told Jay-Mar designed their fertilizer program around the UW Extension's recommendation for central wisconsin soils......could just be marketing hype, but this is what their Winterizer looks like









One more link:What Is Winterizer Fertilizer and Why Is It Important? - ExperiGreen

By applying a fertilizer built to maximize plant cell wall strength and vigor, grass plants are better able to retain water throughout the winter. Most people are not aware that the majority of winter damage on turf is due to water loss through desiccation. A “Winterizer” fertilization improves the lawn’s ability to make it through to spring in good condition.
In addition, again a little-known fact is that grassroots do not stop growing quickly in the fall. The top growth of the grass blades generally slows dramatically or stops, but the roots continue to grow. Root growth continues into and, at times, through the colder winter months. A “Winterizer” fertilizer helps plants take up and store needed carbohydrates for the stressful season ahead.

Again i'm not advocating for more Potassium in your winterizer, just what "the locals" have been saying for years. And no locals have ever been wrong, eh?


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> Next year I plan to potentially remove the roughs and reno some areas depending on how the test plots develop.


by "remove the roughs" you mean cutting them the same height as the rest of your fairway.......i mean lawn?


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

bf7 said:


> @jskierko @Butter, you put down 1lb+ N. Any thoughts on this subject?
> 
> I'm not sure why the winterizer branded ferts have high K because I've heard that late season K contributes to snow mold.
> 
> Next year I plan to potentially remove the roughs and reno some areas depending on how the test plots develop.


Removing your collars? That’s rough.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@steffen707 yup, cutting them back down to fairway height. I still like the look but not worth the hassle of two mowers.

I can understand the stress relief argument. But I think it's a bigger deal in the summer than winter. Maybe if you got an extremely dry / windy winter, then you would benefit more from K as the grass is missing that insulation and water from lack of snow. In my area anyway, there is enough snowfall where I never notice desiccation. I think snow mold is a bigger concern, although I've only seen it in my tall cut fescue. Not sure about you Midwest guys, but Pittsburgh winters are fairly kind to the grass.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@g-man
Yes, can't cheat against nature. Bit of a dice roll, yes, but really it's just a very small amount of soluble N to "top off" the soil N at the very end before soil temps plummet too far, and some of it will indeed stick around until Spring. The advanced fert technology is being utilized to reduce leaching, primarily.

@bf7
Indeed. According to pro experts like osuturfman who straddle both practice and academia, the Potassium really needs to be applied well before the stress period if it's granular. A lot of the reason for that is similar to the N uptake thing we were talking about. Basically, K utilizes mass flow to initially get into the plant as well (of which ET rate is partially a result). The idea is that an already-stressed, partly dormant plant in Summer is also not going to take up a huge amount of water. Foliar Potassium can be used to greater effect during mild to moderate heat/drought stress, of course. I think Potassium acetate was one of the types mentioned.

And now back to your regularly scheduled lawn journal...


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Hey, I got a question, do your stripes before winter look more or less the same in the spring, after a bunch of snow melts?


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## Butter (Nov 14, 2017)

I did apply 1lb/N. for my final app. The main reason being, I used urea instead of AMS this year because I had it. I didn’t have the patience to get my spreader dialed back and I’m far too lazy to use a handheld spreader. The pros in my area put down about a pound this time of year as a last app. It is currently an acceptable practice.

Like someone else said, whatever you’re doing keep doing it. Your turf looks outstanding!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Thanks @Butter!

@steffen707 Check out the first post in this thread.


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

bf7 said:


> @jskierko @Butter, you put down 1lb+ N. Any thoughts on this subject?


My experience with it is purely anecdotal. I know that "science" points to a lesser amount being sufficient, but I have had good luck with the "old school" method of the fall blitz capped off with a 1lb/k winterizer. And if something is working for me, I rarely tinker with it, especially if it is something as cheap as half a bag of urea. I don't typically like to post photos in other journals, but just for the sake of illustration: First photo is winter of 2017, no fall nitrogen or winterizer. Second photo is winter of 2019 (both taken during the same week of the year) after my first year of fall blitz + winterizer. Same lawn, no overseeding or anything done differently. Maybe slightly better cultural practices during the season of the 2nd photo, but I do believe that the last 1-2 months of your season is when you can make the biggest difference. Couple that with the tremendous spring green-up I had this season, and I really have no intention of changing things up.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

jskierko said:


> if something is working for me, I rarely tinker with it


Exactly why I was doing it


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

bf7 said:


> Thanks @Butter!
> 
> @steffen707 Check out the first post in this thread.


I remember that one well. Made a huge impression that the lawn stayed so green over the Winter and the stripes stayed, too.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> @steffen707 Check out the first post in this thread.


OH yeah, that's awesome! I want to see aerials of the backyard when spring comes. What a contrast to the neighbors "not very green" grass it will be.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

There is still growth. Will winterize the mowers in 2-3 weeks.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

I won't completely rule out another mow, but this could be it.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

bf7 said:


> I won't completely rule out another mow, but this could be it.
> View attachment 4242
> 
> View attachment 4243


Can you post a few drone pics taken today? Super curious how great the grass looks compared to neighbors. If it's a big pain nevermind.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

@steffen707 those were taken from the drone but here are a couple from higher up


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@bf7 I’m shocked it’s still nice enough for a mow. That test plot looks amazing.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Jeff_MI84 said:


> @bf7 I’m shocked it’s still nice enough for a mow. That test plot looks amazing.


It still looks pretty good - starting to show signs of dormancy now. Soil temp has been well above average the past week which probably explains why I'm still mowing.

This is from yesterday


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