# Bluemuda in Transition Zone



## ccomp83 (May 27, 2020)

So every fall i overseed with PRG and then i let the summer heat kill it off. I live in DFW area and i have been thinking of trying out the Bluemuda concept. I have portions of my backyard that only get 2-3 hours of sun in the summer time, so getting my bermuda to actively fill in and grow has been difficult.

In my studies i have seen article from the USGA about golf courses doing the Bluemuda concept since the KBG doesnt seem to die off like the PRG does in the summer, it just goes dormant. So instead of overseeding every year, i was going to spend a little more $$ on a very good hybrid KBG for Texas and try to keep it green for most of the year.

If anyone has experience in Bluemuda i would love some feedback, do's & donts, pros/cons, etc.

Couple initial questions i have:
1) what is a good herbicide (if any) that would work for both KBG & Bermuda?
2) Obviously the blade thickness is different between them but is color also a significant thing or is there some small differences? I know that it will NOT be exact color but if its not horrible than i could be ok with that.
3) Does anyone have or know of a good KBG for Texas area?

I appreciate all the help! I hope everyone has a great growing season this year!


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## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

I have not try this, and I'm intrigued by it as another transition zoner. But my concern is: can they both stay thick enough, evenly across the yard, to actually give the desired appearance year-round? I would think the bermuda would thin the KBG in the summer and vice versa in the winter.

I'd love to see responses to (1) and (2). For (3), I wonder if the hybrid bluegrasses like SPF-30 would be your best bet.


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

I can provide some insight into bluemuda.

There are quite a few herbicides that can be used. If conditions are right I will just use some OTC 3-way product like Ortho. It is cheap and gets the job done. MSM is also safe, as is sulfentrazone. Most of my weed issues are clover and random broadleaf weeds.

The color matches fairly well between the HGT and the Yukon that I have. You can definitely tell when the bermuda is coming out of dormancy though. The texture differences are not as bad as I thought they would be. you can tell there are two different grasses but from a distance it isn't that bad. Your average neighbor will still think it is fake if you reel mow.

I cannot answer what would be good for Texas. I have been happy with my HGT and would use it again if I go bluemuda in my next house. I looked at NTEP data and made my decision on HGT when I did straight KBG in my front yard.

As for year round appearance. I have found it is not as good as a traditional rye overseed. the KBG does thin out over the summer but it is still there. The first winter will not look good at all. Coverage will appear very thin and inconsistent until Mid February and then the KBG will take off and the lawn will be completely green.


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## cityofoaks (Sep 8, 2020)

2-3 hours of sun is going to limit your KBG choices to nearly none, Mazama or similar cultivar may work with growth regulation but I would still expect it to be thin with that much shade and that is not even considering the heat. Less than 4 hours is really getting into landscaped area/ground covers territory.

For herbicides basic 3/4 ways like Speedzone would be one option.


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## crstude (Jun 21, 2019)

Reel Low Dad said:


> I can provide some insight into bluemuda.
> 
> There are quite a few herbicides that can be used. If conditions are right I will just use some OTC 3-way product like Ortho. It is cheap and gets the job done. MSM is also safe, as is sulfentrazone. Most of my weed issues are clover and random broadleaf weeds.
> 
> ...


I am so torn on trying this in my backyard in the fall. Love the Rye overseed I did last year, but wondering if economically would make more sense to try and go bluemuda? How often do you think you would have to "overseed" the KBG back in? Any complaints about the bermuda transitioning in besides being able to tell there are two grasses? I guess the same can be said as you kill off the rye and bermuda takes over.


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## ccomp83 (May 27, 2020)

@Reel Low Dad you the Youtube guy? If so you are the one that got me thinking about doing this brother! I appreciate the channel and how you make it entertaining.

I have a couple questions: 
Did you overseed HGT the 2nd year during transition? Does the HGT like to spread as it starts coming better? was your year 2 winter in better shape for the HGT as it had a year to get more root establishment?
Im thinking economically if doing bluegrass and not overseeding heavy with Rye every year would be best long term. Just worried about how the KBG looks when the bermuda is going dormant, cause the Rye does almost the same thing in the early winter than spring it starts to blow up and look good.

Do you change on what type of fertilizer you use on the bermuda in the summer v KBG in winter? or do you just turn down the rates of lbs of N per 1k?


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## Wax0589 (Jun 11, 2020)

I did the SPF 30 KBG in some shaded areas. Colorwise, it blends great into my Bermuda. The issue I got at the end of last year season was rust fungus. I'm looking into getting it completely killed later on this season. I did sprayed round up in some areas during the warm temp this past winter. Bermuda is taking over now on those areas. Bermuda will have a hard time during wake up in early spring.


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

ccomp83 said:


> @Reel Low Dad you the Youtube guy? If so you are the one that got me thinking about doing this brother! I appreciate the channel and how you make it entertaining.
> 
> I have a couple questions:
> Did you overseed HGT the 2nd year during transition? Does the HGT like to spread as it starts coming better? was your year 2 winter in better shape for the HGT as it had a year to get more root establishment?
> ...


Yes that is me. I have to keep this profile pic due to threats of violence against me by @wardconnor when I changed it in the past.

I did my little test of bluemuda with the left over seed from my renovation from bermuda to KBG in the main front lawn. I used my side lawn next to the driveway. The initial seeding of KBG was in August 2019. I cannot find a pic of that winter. but here is a pic from January 11, 2021. There is about 40% more green in this than in January of 2020. I did not apply a second round of seed in this area even though I have more than enough. I plan in overseeding again this fall with more KBG.



Here is a Pic from May 1, 2021. I have a terrible POA issue and dont really care. This area is 170ish sqft and when my neighbor gets his monthly mow all the weed seed head get blown into it. This is also locate on the northern side of my lot and is slow to green up



My backyard was overseeded in September 2021 with the KBG. Here is December 1, 2020 taken from my upstairs.



Here is March 2, 2021 taken from the same vantage



There were no products applied to the lawn between those two pictures. Here was yesterday pre mow after 3 days of rain and 4 days since the last mowing.



For fertilization so far this year I have applied .75lbs N/M from my stash of XGRN over 2 applications a month apart, 2 3oz/M applications of PreFix, a combo app of 3oz/M of MFT and 2oz/M of Feature. I have also applied 2 applications of EqualizORR at the 4oz/M rate which if my math is right should be .09oz N/M from that. I have also started T-Nex at .3oz/M but will probably have to go up slightly.

For my front yard KBG reno, I had lots of bermuda come back and I declined the offer of revolver from Matt Martin. So in the fall I was left with my main front lawn looking like this. Starting bluemuda from KBG is not advised by me.



Today it looks like this and the bermuda is no where near out of dormancy in the front lawn due to the many post Easter cold snaps we have had.



For the rest of the year I do not plan on any more granular fertilizer applications for the back lawn. I will do one more for the front when the bermuda is more out of dormancy. I will be switching to a liquid program until the fall. I will be sticking to a rate of around .1 lb N/M on a weekly or biweekly basis depending on how the grass responds. My current HOC is 16mm.

Hopefully this helps some. any other questions let me know.


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

@Reel Low Dad - hey brother, how are you doing with water and how does that affect each turf type ? If I remember correctly you're not irrigating at all, right? I'm in the NE Atlanta area and considering doing the same thing ever since Matt planted the thought in my head.


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

@corneliani I treat both the same at 1 inch per week depending on environmental conditions. I just use my makeshift above ground sprinkler setup with an assortment of hunter heads. I also use Tournement Ready pellets for any localized dry spot and a special wetting agent Matt made me that I call OIST. Maybe one day I will install irrigation.


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## ccomp83 (May 27, 2020)

@Reel Low Dad i see that during the winter the KBG is spotty. im not sure if being in DFW area the KBG would stay going during the winter better? The KBG will spread somewhat like bermuda over time correct?

Did you use the same KBG (HGT) on all 3 areas?

Any do's and don'ts when overseeding KBG?


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

@ccomp83 Yes, the KBG spreads and fills in over time, as well as becoming more dense. It is a lot like the bermuda coming out of dormancy.

I used the same HGT for everything. For the overseed, treat it like a PRG overseed except scalp the lawn lower. I did hit is with PGR prior to scalping and that helped. I experimented with Tenacity to further stunt the bermuda and it made the bermuda white and didn't really help so I didn't use it the following year.


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## ccomp83 (May 27, 2020)

@Reel Low Dad thanks brotha for the help. Saw you Thirsty Thursday with Grass Factor guys. Good stuff for sure!

Are you seeing any major color differences? Obviously some texture but to the avg joe there is not difference. Is the KBG not as dark as a PRG and blends better with the bermuda? I have Tif 419 (builder installed).

Also side bar question: Whats your thoughts on adding liquid carbon to a fert program? or is that hogwash stuff? I got some bad clays down here in Texas and trying to help with nutrient take up. Got some the Lawn Supply Co - soakorr to help with bicarbonate breakdown. I have aerated and top dressed. Anything else you suggest?

As always appreciate your help!


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

@ccomp83 the color differences are most notable in the morning with dew on the ground and up close. Most people would never notice the difference and it is not as bad mixing different bermudagrass types. I would equate it to being similar to you know its there, so you will notice it, but others will not. Here are some pictures to help give you an idea of what it is like up close. I don't have a good morning pic with dew that is recent.





As for the liquid carbon, I have never used it but I would not waste money on it. I understand what Matt was doing with Carbon with Carbon Earth as it relates to being used as a carrier for the nutrients in the fertilizer, but I do not get all these products that basically just topdress a lawn with carbon. I have moved on from feeding the soil and focus on applying what the grass needs to get predictable results. That does involve knowing what is in my soil, but I stopped dropping all sort of products just because. Most of my fertility program is foliar and the results have been great compared to what I was throwing down in the past.

As for SoakORR, I have not used that yet, but last summer I did get a gallon of a mystery wetting agent left on my porch with a note. It could be the SoakORR or it's predecessor. EqualizORR is a fantastic product. Going to tag @Greendoc in this since his knowledge is far superior to mine when it comes to nutrient uptake.


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## ccomp83 (May 27, 2020)

@Reel Low Dad thank you sir! Yeah I wish the Carbon Earth partners would have been good peeps so Matt could have continued with those products. I saw some good improvements in using them. Yeah the color difference is hard to see unless you were a pro or knew it was there. Your yard is looking good man!

@Greendoc or @Reel Low Dad if you feel like helping a brotha out and making some suggestions? lol. here is my soil test from this spring. I have done 2 apps of Sulfur for the pH. Have not tried Citric yet. I have also done some Potassium apps i believe 2 granular and then a liquid fert with 18% K. I have this awful black clay basically 3" to 5" below. I did aerate and top dress this year. Any suggestions would be much appreciated sir!


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