# Want bugs and insects gone from your lawn and home?



## Mightyquinn

I have been using these product for quite awhile and have had very good success with them (the active ingredients, different brand names).

TALSTAR P (Active Ingredient-Bifenthrin 7.9%)









This product is good for almost every insect out there like spiders,ants,fleas and a whole host of others. For lawns all you need is 1oz/K every month to keep them at bay and it's safe for kids and pets once it is irrigated into the soil or is dry. I am going to be adding it to my wetting agent that I am applying monthly, it can be mixed with other products but you will want to make sure that it is compatible before mixing up large doses. Just use a 1 gallon jug and put your solution in there and shake vigorously to see if it mixes well, if it does then you can just add the gallon to your mix!!!

This can also be used around your house for perimeter sprays around the foundation and around windows and doors. It is also safe to use inside the house just make sure to keep pets and kids away until it dries.

ImidaPro 2 SC (Active Ingredient-Imidacloprid 21.4%)









This product is good for all your soil dwelling insects like grubs, army worms and caterpillars and the like. For lawns all you need is .6oz/K every 3 months to keep them at bay. It is recommended to put this down BEFORE any infestation occurs but I have used it after discovering the nasty little critters with good success. The earlier in the life stages you can catch them with it, the better control you will have. If you are applying every 3 months from Spring till Fall you shouldn't have any issues with the above mentioned pests. This needs to be watered in within 24 hours after application to make sure it is washed through the thatch layer, so just time an application with rain or irrigation. This too is safe for pets and kids once it is dry or watered in. Be sure to test mix this product also before adding it to another product, I do know that this CAN be mixed without any issue with the Talstar P that I mentioned above.

I hope this post was helpful and as with anything you are applying to your lawn be sure to READ THE LABEL before application as this is just a quick overview of the products.


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## southernguy311

This is the same combination I use. I spray them together twice a year.

Q1- Bif/imid
Q2- Bif
Q3- Bif/Imid
Q4- Imid


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## Mightyquinn

southernguy311 said:


> This is the same combination I use. I spray them together twice a year.
> 
> Q1- Bif/imid
> Q2- Bif
> Q3- Bif/Imid
> Q4- Imid


I plan on a similar schedule except I'll be putting down Bifenthrin every month and Imidacloprid every 3 months. I'm already seeing results from ImidaPro as every morning there are quite a few grubs laying dead on the lawn for the birds to come by and eat!!!


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## SimonR

Beetle larvae are my big issue, and I just used Imid this year with 2 apps, mid-spring and mid-summer and had no beetle larvae issues what so ever. Use your AI nozzles and as MQ mentioned water in straight afterwards as it systemic and root absorbed.


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## Alan

I've got mole crickets, so I may try some of the ImidaPro. I've been soaping them and killing them when they surface, but that's kind of tedious.


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## Iriasj2009

Alan said:


> I've got mole crickets, so I may try some of the ImidaPro. I've been soaping them and killing them when they surface, but that's kind of tedious.


Glad you found us alan!!
I bought these products a few weeks ago after mighty suggested them. So far I'm 100 satisfied. The talstar (bif) is working great! The first night after application, I had a bunch of critters coming out and dying!


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## Iriasj2009

Mightyquinn said:


> Be sure to test mix this product also before adding it to another product, I do know that this CAN be mixed without any issue with the Talstar P that I mentioned above.
> 
> I hope this post was helpful and as with anything you are applying to your lawn be sure to READ THE LABEL before application as this is just a quick overview of the products.


Any idea if both of these can be mixed with a PGR?! Im due for my next application I'm having to leave town for the weekend and decided to put down a low dose of PGR to keep the lawn from growing too tall while I'm gone. I'm Trying to spray them all at once.


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## Mightyquinn

Iriasj2009 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Be sure to test mix this product also before adding it to another product, I do know that this CAN be mixed without any issue with the Talstar P that I mentioned above.
> 
> I hope this post was helpful and as with anything you are applying to your lawn be sure to READ THE LABEL before application as this is just a quick overview of the products.
> 
> 
> 
> Any idea if both of these can be mixed with a PGR?! Im due for my next application I'm having to leave town for the weekend and decided to put down a low dose of PGR to keep the lawn from growing too tall while I'm gone. I'm Trying to spray them all at once.
Click to expand...

I tried to mix them a few years ago and they didn't mix well but I had also added Ferrous Ammonium Sulfate so I was thinking that may have been the culprit. All you have to do is get a gallon jug and add the correct amounts for 1K and give it a good shake and then wait a few minutes to see if there are any chunks or separation. If it does mix well you can just add the 1 gallon you made to what you are going to spray. It may work without the FAS! Please report back your findings if you decide to test.


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## southernguy311

Mightyquinn said:


> Iriasj2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1493138100[/url] user_id=68]
> 
> 
> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1491183509[/url] user_id=51]
> Be sure to test mix this product also before adding it to another product, I do know that this CAN be mixed without any issue with the Talstar P that I mentioned above.
> 
> I hope this post was helpful and as with anything you are applying to your lawn be sure to READ THE LABEL before application as this is just a quick overview of the products.
> 
> 
> 
> Any idea if both of these can be mixed with a PGR?! Im due for my next application I'm having to leave town for the weekend and decided to put down a low dose of PGR to keep the lawn from growing too tall while I'm gone. I'm Trying to spray them all at once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I tried to mix them a few years ago and they didn't mix well but I had also added Ferrous Ammonium Sulfate so I was thinking that may have been the culprit. All you have to do is get a gallon jug and add the correct amounts for 1K and give it a good shake and then wait a few minutes to see if there are any chunks or separation. If it does mix well you can just add the 1 gallon you made to what you are going to spray. It may work without the FAS! Please report back your findings if you decide to test.
Click to expand...




Iriasj2009 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1491183509[/url] user_id=51]
> 
> Be sure to test mix this product also before adding it to another product, I do know that this CAN be mixed without any issue with the Talstar P that I mentioned above.
> 
> I hope this post was helpful and as with anything you are applying to your lawn be sure to READ THE LABEL before application as this is just a quick overview of the products.
> 
> 
> 
> Any idea if both of these can be mixed with a PGR?! Im due for my next application I'm having to leave town for the weekend and decided to put down a low dose of PGR to keep the lawn from growing too tall while I'm gone. I'm Trying to spray them all at once.
Click to expand...

Shouldn't have any issues.


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## Iriasj2009

Okay cool, we'll see how it goes, I'll be spraying tomorrow evening.


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## SimonR

I wouldn't combine a PGR with an insecticide to treat soil lurking insects. If you're using bifthernin or imidiclporid they need to be watered in immediately as exposure sunlight will degrade their effectiveness. Given that you want a PGR on the leaf for as long as you can, I would split apps up into foliar and soil treatments. I know the Primo label says it is rain fast after 1 hr (I think) but I've had better results leaving PGR on the leaf as long as possible.


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## Mightyquinn

SimonR said:


> I wouldn't combine a PGR with an insecticide to treat soil lurking insects. If you're using bifthernin or imidiclporid they need to be watered in immediately as exposure sunlight will degrade their effectiveness. Given that you want a PGR on the leaf for as long as you can, I would split apps up into foliar and soil treatments. I know the Primo label says it is rain fast after 1 hr (I think) but I've had better results leaving PGR on the leaf as long as possible.


I agree with you Simon but sometimes you have to do things just because of time constraints and if you time your application in the late evening as the sun is going down it will limit the exposure to the sun and as long as you water in the morning, I think you should be ok.

I try to apply my insecticides with my Wetting agents as they both need to be applied to the soil and the PGR, I usually mix with FAS as they both need to stay on the leaf blade for as long as possible.

You do bring up a good point and something people should consider when spraying "mixes" on the lawn.


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## Iriasj2009

Mightyquinn said:


> SimonR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't combine a PGR with an insecticide to treat soil lurking insects. If you're using bifthernin or imidiclporid they need to be watered in immediately as exposure sunlight will degrade their effectiveness. Given that you want a PGR on the leaf for as long as you can, I would split apps up into foliar and soil treatments. I know the Primo label says it is rain fast after 1 hr (I think) but I've had better results leaving PGR on the leaf as long as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you Simon but sometimes you have to do things just because of time constraints and if you time your application in the late evening as the sun is going down it will limit the exposure to the sun and as long as you water in the morning, I think you should be ok.
> 
> I try to apply my insecticides with my Wetting agents as they both need to be applied to the soil and the PGR, I usually mix with FAS as they both need to stay on the leaf blade for as long as possible.
> 
> You do bring up a good point and something people should consider when spraying "mixes" on the lawn.
Click to expand...

I sprayed yesterday in the evening and watered it in this morning. I had to leave town this morning which was the reason I sprayed both together. I guess the pesticide could have waited but I just went ahead and combined it this one time. Thanks for the responses guys.


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## luderiffic

So, Biftherin (Talstar or Bifen IT) contains a chemical called Permethrin. I use this stuff too, but I'm rethinking. Not sure what else to use. I'm primarily concerned about ticks and this stuff works really well on them.

Just a heads up. This article I link to is worry some, especially for people with small kids who play in the yard all the time (like mine). Dr. Google also has a lot more articles about Permethrin which aren't exactly glowing reviews.

http://www.anapsid.org/pyrethroids.html


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## Spammage

Don't forget fipronil for ants/termites. I know the others list ants too, but nothing gets rid of them like fipronil. Look for Taurus SC.


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## Mightyquinn

We use to use Permethrin in the Army whenever we were in the woods and especially before we went to JRTC(Joint Readiness Training Center) in the backwoods of Leesville, LA. They had it in spray cans and we also use to soak our uniforms in it, let it dry and then wear them to keep the bugs and ticks away. As far as I know, I don't have any side effects from it

I think as long as you are safe and logical with the stuff you and your kids/pets will be fine. Once it's dry or washed into the soil it's fairly harmless.


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## Pharmower

We have permethrin in the pharmacy as a rx cream for treatment of scabies and head lice.


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## Ware

Mightyquinn said:


> We use to use Permethrin in the Army... As far as I know, I don't have any side effects from it...


Everything makes so much more sense now. :lol:


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## ajmikola

Mightyquinn said:


> I have been using these product for quite awhile and have had very good success with them (the active ingredients, different brand names).
> 
> TALSTAR P (Active Ingredient-Bifenthrin 7.9%)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This product is good for almost every insect out there like spiders,ants,fleas and a whole host of others. For lawns all you need is 1oz/K every month to keep them at bay and it's safe for kids and pets once it is irrigated into the soil or is dry. I am going to be adding it to my wetting agent that I am applying monthly, it can be mixed with other products but you will want to make sure that it is compatible before mixing up large doses. Just use a 1 gallon jug and put your solution in there and shake vigorously to see if it mixes well, if it does then you can just add the gallon to your mix!!!
> 
> This can also be used around your house for perimeter sprays around the foundation and around windows and doors. It is also safe to use inside the house just make sure to keep pets and kids away until it dries.
> 
> ImidaPro 2 SC (Active Ingredient-Imidacloprid 21.4%)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This product is good for all your soil dwelling insects like grubs, army worms and caterpillars and the like. For lawns all you need is .6oz/K every 3 months to keep them at bay. It is recommended to put this down BEFORE any infestation occurs but I have used it after discovering the nasty little critters with good success. The earlier in the life stages you can catch them with it, the better control you will have. If you are applying every 3 months from Spring till Fall you shouldn't have any issues with the above mentioned pests. This needs to be watered in within 24 hours after application to make sure it is washed through the thatch layer, so just time an application with rain or irrigation. This too is safe for pets and kids once it is dry or watered in. Be sure to test mix this product also before adding it to another product, I do know that this CAN be mixed without any issue with the Talstar P that I mentioned above.
> 
> I hope this post was helpful and as with anything you are applying to your lawn be sure to READ THE LABEL before application as this is just a quick overview of the products.


Does this stuff work for mosquitoes?


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## j4c11

Please, be very careful with permethrin around cats. Leave your shoes outside and get your clothes in the wash immediately after spraying. It is highly poisonous to cats in very tiny amounts.


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## Tellycoleman

I need to spray for bugs. However can I apply this prior to seeding. I am about to seed Yukon Bermuda? I already have talstar and it was great at killing cicadas.


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## Mightyquinn

Tellycoleman said:


> I need to spray for bugs. However can I apply this prior to seeding. I am about to seed Yukon Bermuda? I already have talstar and it was great at killing cicadas.


I didn't see anything in the label that would prevent you and I can't see how it would hurt the seedlings.


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## j4c11

Is there anything that will help with mosquitoes? Also, I have these tiny little bugs that sit in the grass in the summer, and every time I mow there's a swarm of them all around me. I'd like them dead.


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## Mightyquinn

j4c11 said:


> Is there anything that will help with mosquitoes? Also, I have these tiny little bugs that sit in the grass in the summer, and every time I mow there's a swarm of them all around me. I'd like them dead.


The Talstar P is labeled for mosquitos too. Is your house around any standing water? That is where mosquitos like to breed. As for the swarm of bugs around you, have you tried showering :lol: All jokes aside, it should take care of them after 1 or 2 treatments to the lawn.

The Talstar P will kill most insects but don't expect it to work miracles and make the perimeter of your lawn/house insect free.


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## Tellycoleman

Does talstar go bad?
I just found the gallon I bought 6 years ago?
might have to contact the manufactor?


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## Tellycoleman

I answered my own question thanks Google

The manufacturer gives Talstar P a shelf life of 3 years as long as you keep the top on the bottle and you do not store it in direct sunlight or in extreme temperatures.


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## Ware

I've been putting this off for a while, but just ordered a bottle of Talstar P. :thumbup:

ETA: Less than 90 minutes between order confirmation and shipment confirmation at domyown.com. :thumbup:


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## MsTin

I already use Bifenthrin for the perimeter of my house but would like to treat my entire lawn. Granules would be most preferred because then it will be more of an even application and it can get into the ground. What is the best broad insecticide that I can use to throw around my entire lawn? Especially fire ants and Rabid wolf spiders? Also one that works the longest. I would hate to have to treat once a month.


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## Still learnin

I used the Talstar a couple of months ago. It has worked really well. Need to apply to the outside patio and pool area again though as the bugs seems to be coming back in those areas.


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## gatormac2112

Has anybody used this (Talstar P) indoors and if so, what sprayer/nozzle combo did you use? I have a pest service that I'm ready to cancel if this stuff is as good as you guys say.


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## MsTin

I haven't needed to treat inside my house with it yet. Just the outside. Nothing has gotten past my land of no return that I treat. By the time I see any bugs, they are already dead. :lol: .


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## gatormac2112

MsTin said:


> I haven't needed to treat inside my house with it yet. Just the outside. Nothing has gotten past my land of no return that I treat. By the time I see any bugs, they are already dead. :lol: .


Good to know :thumbup:


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## Ware

gatormac2112 said:


> Has anybody used this (Talstar P) indoors and if so, what sprayer/nozzle combo did you use? I have a pest service that I'm ready to cancel if this stuff is as good as you guys say.


I have used it indoors in a small pump sprayer with an adjustable cone nozzle and minimal system pressure. It works okay, but I may eventually try to figure out a more appropriate setup for indoor use.


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## gatormac2112

I'm going to be spraying prodiamine again as I just realized I only used 1 tablespoon per 4000 sq feet and needed 3 tablespoons &#128518;

Just a brain fart.

Can you mix prodiamine and talstar p? Can you mix prodiamine, talstar p and imidapro?


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## Ware

gatormac2112 said:


> I'm going to be spraying prodiamine again as I just realized I only used 1 tablespoon per 4000 sq feet and needed 3 tablespoons 😆
> 
> Just a brain fart.
> 
> Can you mix prodiamine and talstar p? Can you mix prodiamine, talstar p and imidapro?


It makes me really nervous when I see volumetric measurements (e.g. tablespoons) for products like Prodiamine WDG.

The 6 month rate should be 0.415 oz per k for warm season grasses - and that's ounces weight, not volume. Just as a crosscheck, how did you convert to tablespoons?


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## gatormac2112

Ware said:


> gatormac2112 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to be spraying prodiamine again as I just realized I only used 1 tablespoon per 4000 sq feet and needed 3 tablespoons 😆
> 
> Just a brain fart.
> 
> Can you mix prodiamine and talstar p? Can you mix prodiamine, talstar p and imidapro?
> 
> 
> 
> It makes me really nervous when I see volumetric measurements (e.g. tablespoons) for products like Prodiamine WDG.
> 
> The 6 month rate should be 0.415 oz per k for warm season grasses - and that's ounces weight, not volume. Just as a crosscheck, how did you convert to tablespoons?
Click to expand...

I knew I was doing something wrong 😆

I just used a conversion app using volume, 1.69 fluid oz equals 3.38 tablespoons. I guess it's a good thing I only did 1 tablespoon.

How should I be doing it?


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## Ware

gatormac2112 said:


> I knew I was doing something wrong 😆
> 
> I just used a conversion app using volume, 1.69 fluid oz equals 3.38 tablespoons. I guess it's a good thing I only did 1 tablespoon.
> 
> How should I be doing it?


For dry products, like this. :thumbup:

Fluid ounces should only be used for liquid products.


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## gatormac2112

Ware said:


> gatormac2112 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I knew I was doing something wrong 😆
> 
> I just used a conversion app using volume, 1.69 fluid oz equals 3.38 tablespoons. I guess it's a good thing I only did 1 tablespoon.
> 
> How should I be doing it?
> 
> 
> 
> For dry products, like this. :thumbup:
> 
> Fluid ounces should only be used for liquid products.
Click to expand...

You know, now that makes perfect sense. My mistakes shall educate the masses. Hopefully I can keep them to a minimum :lol:


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## gatormac2112

Update on above error: I bought a scale and did some measurements. 1 leveled tablespoon of prodiamine is .35 ounces and 1 leveled teaspoon is .10 ounces. Today I mixed 1 tbsp and 1 tsp per 4 gallon tank treating 4000 square feet. The 8000 sq ft yard got a total of 2 tbsp and 3 tsp as i added another teaspoon to finish off what i hadn't covered. Total of 1 ounce over 8000 square feet. I was supposed to put out 3.38 ounces per the prodiamine calculator, so I need to put out another 2.38 ounces ASAP. And never use volume again :lol:

Can anybody do the same test for me to check my numbers?

Also, now that I know I need to spray again, can anyone tell me if Talstar P is compatible with Prodiamine? Would love to knock out 2 treatments in one pass.


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## ken-n-nancy

gatormac2112 said:


> Update on above error: I bought a scale and did some measurements. 1 leveled tablespoon of prodiamine is .35 ounces and 1 leveled teaspoon is .10 ounces. ...
> 
> Can anybody do the same test for me to check my numbers?


No need for anybody else to do measurements -- presuming you're using Quali-Pro Prodiamine 65 WDG, there's a handy conversion table on page 17 of the label that gives conversions from lbs./acre to oz./1000sqft. to Tablespoons/1000sqft, shown below:










The good news is that your measurement for a tablespoon is within 10% of the manufacturer's (0.35 ounces vs. 0.37 ounces), so you'll be fine to use your measurements if you'd like, or those on the label.

I suspect your teaspoon figure is off a tiny bit, as 3 teaspoons = 1 tablespoon, but that's not surprising given the very small amount being weighed.

In any case, you'll get excellent use from the scale in the future -- I use a scale to weigh practically everything that goes on the lawn, unless I am spreading an entire bag in one section of my lawn, and thus don't need to weigh it since the bag is already weighed.


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## gatormac2112

ken-n-nancy said:


> gatormac2112 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Update on above error: I bought a scale and did some measurements. 1 leveled tablespoon of prodiamine is .35 ounces and 1 leveled teaspoon is .10 ounces. ...
> 
> Can anybody do the same test for me to check my numbers?
> 
> 
> 
> No need for anybody else to do measurements -- presuming you're using Quali-Pro Prodiamine 65 WDG, there's a handy conversion table on page 17 of the label that gives conversions from lbs./acre to oz./1000sqft. to Tablespoons/1000sqft, shown below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The good news is that your measurement for a tablespoon is within 10% of the manufacturer's (0.35 ounces vs. 0.37 ounces), so you'll be fine to use your measurements if you'd like, or those on the label.
> 
> I suspect your teaspoon figure is off a tiny bit, as 3 teaspoons = 1 tablespoon, but that's not surprising given the very small amount being weighed.
> 
> In any case, you'll get excellent use from the scale in the future -- I use a scale to weigh practically everything that goes on the lawn, unless I am spreading an entire bag in one section of my lawn, and thus don't need to weigh it since the bag is already weighed.
Click to expand...

I even looked through that entire label and missed that 

I guess with my 8000 sq ft lawn i can keep it simple. Dump 4 level tablespoons into my 4 gallon sprayer and apply a gallon per 1000 sq ft., then do it one more time for the second half of the lawn. 8 tablespoons total over 8000 sq ft.

As for the teaspoon oddity, I thought that as well, but it could be the measuring spoon i was using or like you said, such a small amount on a cheapish scale.

Thanks for the info


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## dsotm

@Mightyquinn is it better to water this in after applying or let it dry? I have dogs if that makes a difference.


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## Mightyquinn

It's best to water it in after applying or with in 24 hrs. I will usually keep my dog off the lawn until it's watered in.


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## Adrian82

Is there a post detailing what combination of known products can be successfully mixed? I am new to the spraying game and want to make sure my time spend in the yard is efficient?


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## Mightyquinn

Adrian82 said:


> Is there a post detailing what combination of known products can be successfully mixed? I am new to the spraying game and want to make sure my time spend in the yard is efficient?


What are you looking to mix?


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## Adrian82

Mightyquinn said:


> Adrian82 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a post detailing what combination of known products can be successfully mixed? I am new to the spraying game and want to make sure my time spend in the yard is efficient?
> 
> 
> 
> What are you looking to mix?
Click to expand...

I am 100% newbie when it comes to spraying. I plan to use the following products, for the first time, this season:
PGR
FAS
Bifen/Talstar P (Insecticide)
Sedge Ender
Wetting Agent
Surfactant
Tracker Dye
Celsuis (I think for spot spraying)

Common combinations are sufficient for my needs. 
for example: PGR+FAS+Surfactant+Tracker = yay/nay



wardconnor said:


> I am not a warm season guy but I am pretty sure that tenacity is not for bermuda. From what I have read about warm season grasses you will need the Celsius herbicide. You will want to re confirm this.


 Updated.


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## wardconnor

I am not a warm season guy but I am pretty sure that tenacity is not for bermuda. From what I have read about warm season grasses you will need the Celsius herbicide. You will want to re confirm this.


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## Ware

wardconnor said:


> ...tenacity is not for bermuda...


+1


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## Mightyquinn

A majority of products "can" be mixed together with no issues. The only issue I have ever had is mixing FAS with any of the insect control products(Bifen or Imidacloprid) as the mixture just coagulated. If your not sure if the chemicals you want to mix will work together, it's best to test the mixture in a 1 gallon jug first. Also, some chemicals have a certain order they need to be mixed so be sure to read the label first.


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## SCGrassMan

Bifenthrin is awesome. I get the granular type and put it on the lawn. I am actively not a fan of Imidicloprid, because neonicotinoids are awful for bees. There's lots of stuff you can use that controls those other pests and doesn't hurt the bees. Also in SC Imidicloprid you need a license to buy it if I remember correctly so I can't easily get it anyway.

I also keep a little water bottle full of Bifenthrin granules, and when I walk my neighborhood I sprinkle any fire ant mounts I find with probably a tablespoon worth. Mount dies next time it gets wet.


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## kur1j

SCGrassMan said:


> Bifenthrin is awesome. I get the granular type and put it on the lawn. I am actively not a fan of Imidicloprid, because neonicotinoids are awful for bees. There's lots of stuff you can use that controls those other pests and doesn't hurt the bees. Also in SC Imidicloprid you need a license to buy it if I remember correctly so I can't easily get it anyway.
> 
> I also keep a little water bottle full of Bifenthrin granules, and when I walk my neighborhood I sprinkle any fire ant mounts I find with probably a tablespoon worth. Mount dies next time it gets wet.


Can you link the granular version? Is it the type you mix in water and spray?


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## Movingshrub

@kur1j , I *think* your options are either granular with a fertilizer spreader or a liquid that can be mixed and sprayed.


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## Colonel K0rn

SCGrassMan said:


> I also keep a little water bottle full of Bifenthrin granules, and when I walk my neighborhood I sprinkle any fire ant mounts I find with probably a tablespoon worth. Mount dies next time it gets wet.


I had this funny thought pop in my head of you being the guy walking through the neighborhood, with some wings, a pinwheel and being the fire ant fairy. 😁


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## dsbuckle

Without starting a new thread for Surfactants, what is the best all around surfactant for both Herbicides and Insecticides? Some say they will do both, others dont mention Insecticides. Curious what everyone else is using.


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## gardencityboy

Good timing on this post.
My Talstar P was being delivered today to start doing my own pest control. Now I ordered ImidaPro also, will mix both of them and apply on the lawn to get rid of all the bugs I am seeing with the temp moving up in the 70 to 80 here in Texas.


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## desirous

I mostly use the 80/20 Surfactant from Tractor Supply https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/farmworks-80-20-surfactant-1-gal. Works well and is economical.


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## dsbuckle

desirous said:


> I mostly use the 80/20 Surfactant from Tractor Supply https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/farmworks-80-20-surfactant-1-gal. Works well and is economical.


 :thumbup:


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## SCGrassMan

Colonel K0rn said:


> SCGrassMan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also keep a little water bottle full of Bifenthrin granules, and when I walk my neighborhood I sprinkle any fire ant mounts I find with probably a tablespoon worth. Mount dies next time it gets wet.
> 
> 
> 
> I had this funny thought pop in my head of you being the guy walking through the neighborhood, with some wings, a pinwheel and being the fire ant fairy. 😁
Click to expand...

LOL not as macho an image as I have of myself, for sure!


----------



## SCGrassMan

kur1j said:


> SCGrassMan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bifenthrin is awesome. I get the granular type and put it on the lawn. I am actively not a fan of Imidicloprid, because neonicotinoids are awful for bees. There's lots of stuff you can use that controls those other pests and doesn't hurt the bees. Also in SC Imidicloprid you need a license to buy it if I remember correctly so I can't easily get it anyway.
> 
> I also keep a little water bottle full of Bifenthrin granules, and when I walk my neighborhood I sprinkle any fire ant mounts I find with probably a tablespoon worth. Mount dies next time it gets wet.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you link the granular version? Is it the type you mix in water and spray?
Click to expand...

https://www.domyown.com/hiyield-bug-blaster-ii-bifenthrin-granules-p-1589.html

Granules. You sprinkle about a teaspoon worth on an ant mound, and wet it a little (or don't, it still works great) and the mound dies within a day or two, never to return.

Using a Scott's rotary spreader set at 2, I run a pass or two around my yard with this and anything that touches it dies for months.


----------



## SCGrassMan

https://www.domyown.com/bifen-granules-p-227.html?rrec=true

That's the generic, which is twice as much weight for less than twice as much money


----------



## Greendoc

wardconnor said:


> I am not a warm season guy but I am pretty sure that tenacity is not for bermuda. From what I have read about warm season grasses you will need the Celsius herbicide. You will want to re confirm this.


Correct. Unless you are out of other options for Goosegrass control in Bermuda and Seashore Paspalum. It does need to be tank mixed with Sencor DF or the lawn will be white for a month. This mix kills Zoysia.


----------



## kur1j

Greendoc said:


> wardconnor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not a warm season guy but I am pretty sure that tenacity is not for bermuda. From what I have read about warm season grasses you will need the Celsius herbicide. You will want to re confirm this.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct. Unless you are out of other options for Goosegrass control in Bermuda and Seashore Paspalum. It does need to be tank mixed with Sencor DF or the lawn will be white for a month. This mix kills Zoysia.
Click to expand...

Pause! What?! You mind explaining that again? What causes the lawn to be white and what kills Zoysia?!? I've got some Zoysia in my Bermuda and have no idea how to get rid of it (besides glyphosate). I would like to avoid killing an entire area of my bermuda if possible. If killing Zoysia in a Bermuda lawn that would be amazing.


----------



## Greendoc

Pylex+Sencor. Or Tenacity and Sencor. You may sub off patent Metribuzin for the Sencor. In my case it is more economical than stripping sod only to have it all come back. Glyphosate only browns out Zoysia for a while, then it regenerates from the deep rhizomes underground.


----------



## kur1j

Greendoc said:


> Pylex+Sencor. Or Tenacity and Sencor. You may sub off patent Metribuzin for the Sencor. In my case it is more economical than stripping sod only to have it all come back. Glyphosate only browns out Zoysia for a while, then it regenerates from the deep rhizomes underground.


Awesome! Thanks for the info! Holy hell that Pylex and Sencor are expensive! Tenacity seems more reasonably priced though granted I'm having trouble locating someone that carries the Metribuzin.

So a few questions if you don't mind.
Why do they have to be used in combination?
Why wouldn't one or the other kill it? 
How much will this damage my Bermuda? 
I'm assuming it will do some damage and yellow the bermuda at a minimum?
With both would I just mix at their application rates or some special rate since I'm using them off-label?

I've never actually 100% identified it but before I go spend 150$ on herbicides to kill just this one weed does this look like Zoysia to you?


----------



## Greendoc

I am so sorry sir! That is definitely Zoysia japonica. The reason why you need the Metribuzin(Sencor) is because it reduces the damage those two herbicides cause to the Bermuda. After the loss of MSMA, even the golf guys in my state were having trouble controlling grassy weeds. A friend of mine and I worked out a way to use Tenacity and Pylex on Bermuda and have it work. The Tenacity or Pylex with Sencor make the application tolerable for the Bermuda while increasing the damage to the target species. Herehttps://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/defrankJ/NON_HOMEPAGE_PAGES/CPS_2014.htm#CPS_2014.
https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/defrankJ/NON_HOMEPAGE_PAGES/PacAg_2014.htm#JD_PacAg_2014

Do not use these treatment protocols if the objective is to keep the Zoysia. I use this on Bermuda or Seashore Paspalum contaminated with Zoysia from neighboring lawns or regrowth from a previous install. These treatment protocols are also not off label provided you hold Syngenta and BASF harmless for any adverse effects. Labels on those products state do not use on Bermuda unless injury can be tolerated. 4 oz per acre Sencor is at or under label rate. 4 oz Tenacity is good or else 1/2 - 1 oz Pylex.


----------



## kur1j

Greendoc said:


> I am so sorry sir! That is definitely Zoysia japonica. The reason why you need the Metribuzin(Sencor) is because it reduces the damage those two herbicides cause to the Bermuda. After the loss of MSMA, even the golf guys in my state were having trouble controlling grassy weeds. A friend of mine and I worked out a way to use Tenacity and Pylex on Bermuda and have it work. The Tenacity or Pylex with Sencor make the application tolerable for the Bermuda while increasing the damage to the target species. Herehttps://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/defrankJ/NON_HOMEPAGE_PAGES/CPS_2014.htm#CPS_2014.
> https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/defrankJ/NON_HOMEPAGE_PAGES/PacAg_2014.htm#JD_PacAg_2014
> 
> Do not use these treatment protocols if the objective is to keep the Zoysia. I use this on Bermuda or Seashore Paspalum contaminated with Zoysia from neighboring lawns or regrowth from a previous install. These treatment protocols are also not off label provided you hold Syngenta and BASF harmless for any adverse effects. Labels on those products state do not use on Bermuda unless injury can be tolerated. 4 oz per acre Sencor is at or under label rate. 4 oz Tenacity is good or else 1/2 - 1 oz Pylex.


Damn! I was hoping it was something else that might be easier to kill! I have about 6500sqft of lawn (Tifway 419 bermuda). I definitely want to keep the bermuda and want to get rid of the Zoysia. The Zoysia seems to have come with the sod (about 2 years old now). There are about 3-4 spots where the Zoysia is at (probably < 100sqft in all cases) but it just makes it look really funny when the grass is growing and I would just like to get rid of it. Since it's in these small of areas and its just my home lawn even if it does nuke these areas I'm sure the surrounding bermuda will eventually just fill it in. I hope that doesn't happen but I think you get the thought haha.

So you mentioned MSMA. Besides the legalities of it not being labeled for resedential turf is that an option for killing the Zoysia as well? I happen to "procure" some MSMA (I've use it twice in the past 2 years) to kill some dallisgrass that cropped up. We are in a new consturction area and new sod is being put down all the time, the home owners have nice grass for the first year and then all of the weeds show up in their lawn, so I'm fighting what they get as well...which is fun.

If not then I'll be trying the Tenacity and Sencor/Metribuzin! I'm actually watching your videos you linked right now . Thanks a ton for all the help and information.


----------



## Greendoc

MSMA by itself is well tolerated by Zoysia. That changes when it is combined with 4-6 oz per acre of Sencor. Now that usage of MSMA is restricted on golf courses(Only a 100 sq ft area spot treatment area and no more than 25% of the total area of the course), Goosegrass and Zoysia have become a problem. Most lawns surrounding golf courses are Zoysia. It then contaminates Tees, Fairways and the non play areas. Previously, the entire course would be sprayed with MSMA+Sencor 2X 14 days apart. That would kill the Goosegrass and Zoysia no questions asked.

I would definitely look into the treatment protocols using Tenacity or Pylex. Other brand names of off patent Metribuzin include Tricor DF. Works the same as Sencor DF T&O. It is also labeled for control of weeds in dormant Bermuda. Poa and Zoysia that has greened up prior to the Bermuda?


----------



## kur1j

@Greendoc 
I actually just finished watching the video you linked. It was really interesting. Thanks for linking it! I noticed that (or maybe I missed it) but it seemed that you mainly tested it on goosegrass and the bermuda. The thing that wasn't clear to me was that you would get control of the zoysia with Tenacity and Sencor. Around the 14:20 min mark its showing that zoysia was getting damaged still at 22 days but wasn't completely dead and I would only assume it would recover or does it keep dying? Just for the record, I believe you I'm planning on getting the Sencor and Tenacity but from just watching the video it wasn't clear to me that it would go ahead and kill the zoysia off.

What did you mean by T&O when you were referencing "Sencor DF T&O"? Also just a random general question, other than just tribal knowledge, how do you typically know if a herbicide has a DF/WSG formulation of the chemical? I personally like the solid mixable variants as I feel that they have a lot better shelf life (just what I've heard), plus if the bottle is accidentally dumped over, I don't have a complete disaster of a mess to deal with.

I was trying to find a DF/WSG variant of tenacity but can't seem to find one so I assume there isn't one. The Tricor as you mentioned does.

@Spammage 
I was looking into getting some of the fipronil (Taurus SC) for the ants (fire ants) in my yard the label on it explicitly excludes fire ants for some reason. Is there a reason for this? Does it work on fire ants?


----------



## Greendoc

On the first video, Dr Joe was just applying Tenacity by itself to some turfgrass plots outside of his office. The damage to Zoysia applying both Tenacity and Sencor has been confirmed by myself and some golf supers in the state. My program for killing Zoysia involves making two applications 14-21 days apart.

Here is one for you, if a chemical does not have a high solubility in solvents or else is not stable when put into suspension using distilled water, there will probably be a DF WSG formula. I read the data that end users normally do not read. In fact, Dr Joe was one of my instructors while I was going through the horticulture program at the University.


----------



## kur1j

Greendoc said:


> On the first video, Dr Joe was just applying Tenacity by itself to some turfgrass plots outside of his office. The damage to Zoysia applying both Tenacity and Sencor has been confirmed by myself and some golf supers in the state. My program for killing Zoysia involves making two applications 14-21 days apart.
> 
> Here is one for you, if a chemical does not have a high solubility in solvents or else is not stable when put into suspension using distilled water, there will probably be a DF WSG formula. I read the data that end users normally do not read. In fact, Dr Joe was one of my instructors while I was going through the horticulture program at the University.


Interesting. I'll give it a shot. I'm honestly really excited about trying it (not as much excited about spending the $150) but for the alternative of just having to deal with the stupid zoysia or trying to kill it with glyphosate and/or manually removing it, probably well worth it. I'm going to give it a shot

Thanks for the information on the DF/WSG. I typically read the label pretty thoroughly to get a general understanding of the chemical but I'm not well versed enough in the field to understand it fully most of the time. All of this is pretty new to me so just trying to pick up and learn things as I go. Lawn care pretty much just a hobby for me.

Thanks again for all the information. I'll post some results once I order the chemicals and put down my first treatment.


----------



## Greendoc

You are most welcome. Manually remove Zoysia? It can be done. That involves digging at least 12" down and 12" around each spot of Zoysia you see. Hope you did not leave any rhizomes behind. Glyphosate temporarily browns Zoysia and then it grows back from whatever rhizomes the chemical did not translocate to.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

kur1j said:


> @Spammage
> I was looking into getting some of the fipronil (Taurus SC) for the ants (fire ants) in my yard the label on it explicitly excludes fire ants for some reason. Is there a reason for this? Does it work on fire ants?


I'm guessing the reason that the Taurus or the Termidor products that I mentioned in your other post are labeled not to be used on fire ants is because they're specifically labelled as termiticides, and not insecticides? AI is still AI, and fipronil kills 'em dead, that's for sure.


----------



## J_nick

Colonel K0rn said:


> AI is still AI, and fipronil kills 'em dead, that's for sure.


+1, sprayed multiple fire ant hills and by day 3 you won't be able to find a single ant still moving. It's a beautiful thing.


----------



## Greendoc

Colonel K0rn said:


> kur1j said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Spammage
> I was looking into getting some of the fipronil (Taurus SC) for the ants (fire ants) in my yard the label on it explicitly excludes fire ants for some reason. Is there a reason for this? Does it work on fire ants?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing the reason that the Taurus or the Termidor products that I mentioned in your other post are labeled not to be used on fire ants is because they're specifically labelled as termiticides, and not insecticides? AI is still AI, and fipronil kills 'em dead, that's for sure.
Click to expand...

Taurus or Termidor is not a Federal Restricted Use pesticide. TopChoice, a granular Fipronil labeled for outdoor application for fire ants is. I do not see what is wrong with a limited application of Termidor to an ant mound. Others have told me all it takes is a shot of diluted product from a quart trigger sprayer and the mound is dead. Makes more sense to me than spreading a granule all over the place.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Greendoc said:


> Colonel K0rn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kur1j said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Spammage
> I was looking into getting some of the fipronil (Taurus SC) for the ants (fire ants) in my yard the label on it explicitly excludes fire ants for some reason. Is there a reason for this? Does it work on fire ants?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing the reason that the Taurus or the Termidor products that I mentioned in your other post are labeled not to be used on fire ants is because they're specifically labelled as termiticides, and not insecticides? AI is still AI, and fipronil kills 'em dead, that's for sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Taurus or Termidor is not a Federal Restricted Use pesticide. TopChoice, a granular Fipronil labeled for outdoor application for fire ants is. I do not see what is wrong with a limited application of Termidor to an ant mound. Others have told me all it takes is a shot of diluted product from a quart trigger sprayer and the mound is dead. Makes more sense to me than spreading a granule all over the place.
Click to expand...

I agree. Fipronil is amazing stuff.

Bifenthrin in 0.20% granular form is what's being sold under the Over N Out Fire Ant Killer that worked for 6 months on my lawn years ago, before I started mixing and applying. It made it easy for me to just spread the bag, and not have to worry about having any in the yard for at least the warm months, but it's much more cost-effective to spray liquid. Problem here is that the mounds are usually pretty dark, indicative of the soil. In Central GA, there's lots of red clay, and they're super easy to spot. I learned the hard way when I moved down here.

First time I sprayed Bifenthrin at the suggested mix rate for broadcast application, it turned my lawn into an insect ghost-town. That was a great feeling. I fired my pest control guy too.


----------



## Greendoc

I do not have a pest control guy either. What I use to deter the 6 and 8 legged ones is Demand CS. I need more staying power than Bifenthrin. 3-4 applications a year and no bugs.


----------



## Spammage

Colonel K0rn said:


> kur1j said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Spammage
> I was looking into getting some of the fipronil (Taurus SC) for the ants (fire ants) in my yard the label on it explicitly excludes fire ants for some reason. Is there a reason for this? Does it work on fire ants?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing the reason that the Taurus or the Termidor products that I mentioned in your other post are labeled not to be used on fire ants is because they're specifically labelled as termiticides, and not insecticides? AI is still AI, and fipronil kills 'em dead, that's for sure.
Click to expand...

This. We had issues with multiple types of ants for years here. Spray imidacloprid or bifenthrin and in less than a week the trails were back. I don't think I saw an ant for 8 months after the first fipronil app. As Greendoc noted, it isn't labeled for residential lawn use, but fipronil is fipronil, so I never felt bad about it. The real kicker is that after two broadcast apps, I haven't seen a fire ant in my yard for years. Now I only spray the perimeter of the house a couple of times a year for nuisance ants.


----------



## kur1j

@Greendoc 
Yeah, someone basically said that manual removal of Zoysia from Bermuda with glyphosate was about the only to get rid of it. Was just stating my apparent options which didnt sound fun or promising.

@Everyone in convo
Thanks everyone!

So is there a reason to buy Talstar P if I get the fipronil? Same goes for Demand CS? Sounds like Demand CS might be a better option than the fipronil even since it will last longer and you can spray it indoors?

I'm wanting to mainly keep the mosquitoes at bay, ants, spiders, roaches, the bee looking big thst was going into it's nest into the ground.

I've got a big control company that will only treat "the house and immediate perimeter of the house" so for whatever reason they won't take care of the ant mounds in the yard. On top of that they want 250$ for their "mosquitoe" deterrence application. So i'm justin trying to get rid of that bill too if I can. My wife is allergic to the mosquitoes and gets big red welpa and sores when she gets bit so 3 ish months of the year we can't even bein the yard.


----------



## Movingshrub

Talstar should be able to be used indoors. I am using Suspend SC, which I think has the same AI, and it's listed for both inside and outside.


----------



## kur1j

Movingshrub said:


> Talstar should be able to be used indoors. I am using Suspend SC, which I think has the same AI, and it's listed for both inside and outside.


@Movingshrub

Thanks. i knew that Talstar was usable inside but the Demand SC stuff also seems to be labeled for inside use as well. Is there a reason you went with Suspend SC versus Talstar? Any reason to get one over the other of Talstar, Demand, Suspend, Taurus?

Sorry what is Al?


----------



## Ware

kur1j said:


> Sorry what is Al?


Active Ingredient :thumbup:


----------



## SCGrassMan

Greendoc said:


> I do not have a pest control guy either. What I use to deter the 6 and 8 legged ones is Demand CS. I need more staying power than Bifenthrin. 3-4 applications a year and no bugs.


For that, I use this product, all around the base of the foundation, doorways, garage, etc:

https://www.domyown.com/suspend-polyzone-p-2455.html

Fipronil is extremely toxic to bees, which I want to avoid being part of the problem with that situation. Suspend uses Deltamethrin, which is in the synthetic Pyrethrin family. It kills bugs dead but is *less* toxic to bees.

If I have a resistant ant mound to the granules, I put down some granules and soak it in with some of this stuff. I put like 0.25 Oz of it in a gallon jug of warm soapy water and dump it over the tops of the mounds. They go bye bye overnight.


----------



## Movingshrub

AI=active ingredient

I stand corrected. Suspend and Talstar don't use the same chemical.

I used a granular talstar with a push spreader for control of ants last year. It was cheaper than any other pest product I could find at that time.

I haven't researched the difference between the different brands, using the same chemical. I had purchased my bottle several years ago and was told the Suspend SC would last longer on my brick surfaces. There is also a suspend Polyzone.

If it's going to be used in your yard, i'd think whatever is cheapest, unless somehow there is a version that lasts longer for the yard as well. I don't want to misguide you. I just don't know the differences.


----------



## kur1j

@Ware Thanks!

So at this point what everyone has mentioned is

Suspend - AI = Deltamethrin
Demand - AI = Lambda-cyhalorthin
Talstar- AI = Bifrenthrin
Taurus - AI = Fipronil

Not sure of the advantages or disadvantages of them.


----------



## Mightyquinn

kur1j said:


> @Ware Thanks!
> 
> So at this point what everyone has mentioned is
> 
> Suspend - AI = Deltamethrin
> Demand - AI = Lambda-cyhalorthin
> Talstar- AI = Bifrenthrin
> Taurus - AI = Fipronil
> 
> Not sure of the advantages or disadvantages of them.


I would also look at costs and length of control :thumbup:


----------



## kur1j

@Mightyquinn

Good points!

Suspend - AI = Deltamethrin
Suspend SC - 30 days outside, 22-64Gal product, ~42$
Suspend Polyzone - lasts 90 days outside, 22-64Gal product, $50
Demand - AI = Lambda-cyhalorthin
Suspend SC - 8-40Gal Product, $37
Talstar- AI = Bifrenthrin
Talstar - 96-192Gal of product - last 30-90 days, more active in spring summer will be closer to 30 day reapplication, $40
Taurus - AI = Fipronil
Taurus SC - 25-50G of product - last 90 to 180 days, $44. Probably the best of the bunch for killing Ants.

So from a cursory look based on price and what I need to kill I probably will be looking a Taurus for Ants and Talstar for everything else. Spray the ant beds with Taurus and then spray Talstar in bushes/trees/woods/shrubs for mosquitoes and indoors in baseboards. The only other option I would think would be replacing Talstar with Suspend. I'm betting Demand SC will kill mosquitoes but it isn't labeled for it. But Suspend SC looked to be the only other alternative to Talstar but it's also seemingly more expensive and kills about the same number of pests. Might be more effective? But Talstar seems to get really good reviews so if it is even slightly better I probably (based once what I can see) wouldn't notice the difference. Both can be used indoors around baseboards and such which is good so I don't get any additional benefit.

Any other things I'm not thinking?


----------



## Greendoc

Demand CS is labeled for mosquito control. That is where I notice the long residual. I also notice it has staying power in landscapes that are on irrigation. The CS stands for capsule suspension. The wizards at Syngenta formulated it so that the Lambda-Cyhalothrin is encased in polymer beads. Talstar and Suspend SC are the AI as crystals suspended in water.


----------



## kur1j

Greendoc said:


> Demand CS is labeled for mosquito control. That is where I notice the long residual. I also notice it has staying power in landscapes that are on irrigation. The CS stands for capsule suspension. The wizards at Syngenta formulated it so that the Lambda-Cyhalothrin is encased in polymer beads. Talstar and Suspend SC are the AI as crystals suspended in water.


Ah, you are right. I just missed it. Been flipping back and forth between labels a lot and probably noted it down wrong.

So that is what surprised me. Talstar states that it's good for 30outside/90inside. I would have ventured to guess that Demand SC sigh the polymer beads would have made the stuff last a lot longer, but based on label it also only lasts 30out/90in. It does say it is a lot more active against mosquitoes and flies and such (reading label again) so that might just be a better option.

Are you seeing control longer than 30 days outside with it? I'm okay with paying more if I actually get more out of the product. Is there anything that Demand wouldn't kill or deterrent against that Talstar would? I would be planning on doing inside around the baseboards and stuff inside, would thst be a problem with Demand?


----------



## Tellycoleman

How long does demand last?


----------



## Greendoc

A long time. If applied to the outside walls of a house and shrubbery/vegetation outside, I see 60-90 days. That is in landscapes that are heavily irrigated.


----------



## Gibby

I was getting ready to order some Bifen IT and ImidaPro 2SC for spraying since it is cheaper than granules, when I came across this thread. Now this is going to be a long post... lol

I have been paying $75 per quarter per house for pest control, so $600/yr, but half goes into the tax program for the rental. I would like to switch to doing my own and discontinue the pest control service, will still have the same company for our termite bond at both houses.

I looked up what they have been using and:

Rental House
AI: Deltamethrin / Product Name: Delta Dust and Suspend Polyzone​AI: Bifenthrin / Product Name: Talstar Professional​
Our House
AI: Deltamethrin / Product Name: Delta Dust and Suspend Polyzone​AI: Lambda-cyhalothrin / Product Name: Demand CS​AI: Orthoboric Acid / Product Name: InTice 10 Perimeter Bait​AI: Dinotefuran / Product Name: Alpine PT Insecticide Aerosol​AI: Fipronil / Product Name: Taurus SC​AI: Imidacloprid & Beta-Cyfluthrin / Product Name: Temprid FX​
I used the Bifen Granules last year in August at our current house and it was pretty awesome on the fire ant control. Only had a few mounds pop up throughout the remainder of the year, and I had some fire ant mound granules that wife got sale for like $1/bag and just have it on my mower when mowing and spread some on a mound when I see them. Didn't seem to do anything for chinch bugs or grubs or whatever the damn moles/gophers are feasting on in the backyard.

Problem pests in the past:

Fleas - About 1.5 years ago, dog got them and he hung out mostly in the master bedroom, what a PIA it was to get rid of, Precor finally did the trick and Trifexis for the dog.​
German mother f'in cockroaches - This is the pest from hell. We had multiple different pest control companies come out and try to deal with these things at our old house over the course of probably 3 years. Think them came in from a grocery shopping trip or the neighbors. We must have spent close to $2,000 on battling them. What finally did the trick was after we moved out the pest control company literally bombed the whole inside with DeltaDust and I put out some Advion Roach Bait Stations. We were super duper worried about bringing them to the new house and had them come use DeltaDust in the voids and around the appliances at the new house and I put out a crap load of the bait stations. We have only seen/killed a handful but I replace the bait stations every 3 months. I also bought some Orthene PCO Pellets and Tekko Pro IGR in January but wife can't find where she put it lol... However it has been a good 2 months and haven't seen a German at the new property and over 8 months at the rental.​
Pest I definitely want to control/prevent/kill are:

Inside:

Fleas
Flies
German cockroaches
Ants (specifically sugar ants)
Spiders​
Outside:

Fire Ants
Mosquitoes 
Wasps
Flies
Chinch Bugs
Cockroaches/Palmetto Bugs
Ticks​
Stuff I have on hand already:
Dominion 2L - 27.5oz, bought it last year, don't remember why, have never used it.
Advion Roach Bait Arena - I replace them about every 3 months around appliances and in cabinets
Orthene PCO Pellets - Somewhere... it is currently MIA
Tekko Pro IGR - Somewhere... it is currently MIA
Some cheapo fire ant mound control - Probably have like 6 bags left​
I am going to upgrade from a 2Gal sprayer to a 4Gal sprayer and thinking about going with just a quart of Demand CS, which should last me a whole year at both properties(doing about 16,000sq/ft every quarter). Then if there is a pest issue between Demand CS treatments, get something more specific to just that pest.

Thoughts?


----------



## Ware

Cross-posting this thread about the B&G Extenda-Ban Sprayer I bought for spraying insecticides. :thumbup:


----------



## Colonel K0rn

@Gibby one option you could consider for the insects that is safe to use in human habitats, and around pets/kids/kitchen, etc is diatomaceous earth. It's safe enough to put on the animals and even ingest yourself. I bought some when I was at the GA National Fair, and the exhibitor was showing how his Fire Ant Killer would kill ants very quickly, and was safe to humans.

I hate fire ants, and when he showed me how quickly they died to the stuff, which was literally minutes, I bought 20 # of it. His product had something else in it, that caused it to work quicker than plan DE. I snapped a picture of the stuff that he was selling. We HAD a problem with the german roaches in our old place. Sprinkled this stuff with a duster, and no more problems.


----------



## Gibby

Colonel K0rn said:


> @Gibby one option you could consider for the insects that is safe to use in human habitats, and around pets/kids/kitchen, etc is diatomaceous earth. It's safe enough to put on the animals and even ingest yourself. I bought some when I was at the GA National Fair, and the exhibitor was showing how his Fire Ant Killer would kill ants very quickly, and was safe to humans.
> 
> I hate fire ants, and when he showed me how quickly they died to the stuff, which was literally minutes, I bought 20 # of it. His product had something else in it, that caused it to work quicker than plan DE. I snapped a picture of the stuff that he was selling. We HAD a problem with the german roaches in our old place. Sprinkled this stuff with a duster, and no more problems.


Any ideas where I can get some of that?


----------



## TulsaFan

If you want food grade, I would buy this.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Gibby said:


> Colonel K0rn said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Gibby one option you could consider for the insects that is safe to use in human habitats, and around pets/kids/kitchen, etc is diatomaceous earth. It's safe enough to put on the animals and even ingest yourself. I bought some when I was at the GA National Fair, and the exhibitor was showing how his Fire Ant Killer would kill ants very quickly, and was safe to humans.
> 
> I hate fire ants, and when he showed me how quickly they died to the stuff, which was literally minutes, I bought 20 # of it. His product had something else in it, that caused it to work quicker than plan DE. I snapped a picture of the stuff that he was selling. We HAD a problem with the german roaches in our old place. Sprinkled this stuff with a duster, and no more problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any ideas where I can get some of that?
Click to expand...

Try giving the phone number a call(877-239-1191), or the website http://horse-tales.net/organic-one.html


----------



## Tellycoleman

Ran out of talstar and considering purchasing Demand CS. Its hard to wrap my head around using only 7 drops or 6.8ml per 1000 square feet. Super concentrated


----------



## Gibby

Tellycoleman said:


> Ran out of talstar and considering purchasing Demand CS. Its hard to wrap my head around using only 7 drops or 6.8ml per 1000 square feet. Super concentrated


Demand CS is 7 drops per 1k?


----------



## Tellycoleman

Gibby said:


> Tellycoleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ran out of talstar and considering purchasing Demand CS. Its hard to wrap my head around using only 7 drops or 6.8ml per 1000 square feet. Super concentrated
> 
> 
> 
> Demand CS is 7 drops per 1k?
Click to expand...

yep if im reading it correctly


----------



## Gibby

Tellycoleman said:


> Gibby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tellycoleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ran out of talstar and considering purchasing Demand CS. Its hard to wrap my head around using only 7 drops or 6.8ml per 1000 square feet. Super concentrated
> 
> 
> 
> Demand CS is 7 drops per 1k?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yep if im reading it correctly
Click to expand...

I was more concentrated on this page


----------



## Greendoc

I can confirm that 0.8 oz per gallon sprayed lightly around doors, windows, cracks and crevices outside of the house keeps things out.. 7 ml is a little under 11/4 teaspoon. Not much, but I apply 5 ml for lawn pests and it works.


----------



## Tellycoleman

Not sure if i need to just stick with the talstar. One 8 oz bottle will treat my yard only once.


----------



## gardencityboy

Tellycoleman said:


> Not sure if i need to just stick with the talstar. One 8 oz bottle will treat my yard only once.


Demand CS 8 oz cost $36.91 on domyown
Talstar P 96 oz cost $40

I think Talstar P would work out cheaper.


----------



## Gibby

gardencityboy said:


> Tellycoleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if i need to just stick with the talstar. One 8 oz bottle will treat my yard only once.
> 
> 
> 
> Demand CS 8 oz cost $36.91 on domyown
> Talstar P 96 oz cost $40
> 
> I think Talstar P would work out cheaper.
Click to expand...

I think Demand CS uses a lot less product when treating a yard, like 0.16 oz per 1,000sq/ft. Talstar P uses 0.5-1 oz per 1,000 sq/ft.


----------



## Greendoc

Demand also lasts longer outdoors. I see a big difference in knockdown and overall killing power with Demand as well. In Hawaii, we have big reddish brown centipedes. They bite. After spraying the lawn and landscaped areas with Demand, centipedes are on their backs the next morning and I do not see another live one for several months. Talstar seems to work for 14 days outside and then it is done.


----------



## gardencityboy

Based on the label on Demand CS on domyown it says "Each 8 oz bottle makes 8 - 40 gallons (mixed at 0.2 to 0.8 oz/6 to 24 ml per gallon of water) Each Qt makes 40 - 160 gallons"

So if we go with max strength which is 0.8 oz where as Talstar P is 1.0 oz. Not much of a difference.
Are you guys comparing max strength for both?


----------



## Greendoc

One does not only look at quantity applied and cost of the application. Another factor is longevity. With the products that lasted long now all illegal, Demand CS stands out as having staying power.


----------



## Ral1121

So looking to start doing this myself as well both inside and outside. I am currently paying a service which charges me 100 every qtr. This is what they do according to the paperwork.

Inside
Fastcap

Outside barrier and yard mixture
Tengard(permethrin)
Essentria IC3(rosemary oil, geraniol, peppermint)
SevinSL(carbamyl)

Crack and crevices
Phantom(chlorfenapyr)

Spot treat ant beds with
Talsar PL(bifenthrin .2%)

Thinking about just replicating this. What do y'all think. All these products are supposedly safe for children and pets. At least thats what they say and market towards


----------



## Greendoc

Carbaryl? Last time I checked label on that was changed to only allow application to shrubs and ornamentals. No broadcast applications to lawns or yards. Everything else sounds familiar and legal for the stated purpose. There is nothing applied that is alarming. Showing my age, but I remember a household spray called Spectracide. It was in an orange aerosol can. Contained Diazinon. A few years later when I got into the turf and ornamental industry, I remember the bottles of Dursban and Diazinon concentrates having instructions for indoor applications by PCOs.


----------



## Ral1121

@Greendoc you might be right on the carbaryl. I have never been home when they spray so I do not know if they do a blanket app on the lawn or just around the yard. Looking at the label I figured it was mainly for fleas as the other products did not seem to cover them. I am going to get my wife to ask some questions next time they spray which is next week. Find out more about what they specifically do.


----------



## Greendoc

At the same time that there was still Spectracide containing Diazinon, I remember buying pints of Sevin with instructions for applications to lawns. The last bottle of Sevin SL I bought had a prohibition on broadcast application to residential properties. Commercial landscapes, golf courses, and sod farm use only.

Talstar or Demand CS is legal and effective for fleas. Tengard is Permethrin. That has very fast knockdown, but it is not really long lasting. I have used Permethrin and Merit prior to Demand becoming available in lawns. Talstar does not have that same effect because it is very tightly bound to the first fraction of an inch of thatch. That Permethrin made white grubs literally jump out of the turf. The issue with Carbaryl is that the EPA has determined that exposure to it via broadcast application to residential lawns exceeds safe limits of exposure. That is because Carbaryl is commonly applied to fruits, vegetables, grain crops, and soybeans. Residues from treated crops and exposure to sprayed lawns was determined to be hazardous to health. Naturally, in their infinite wisdom, they allowed use on crops and banned it on lawns. Dursban and Diazinon are not totally gone either. They are still allowed on cotton, fruits, grains soybeains and vegetables.


----------



## Ral1121

@Greendoc so for my outdoor broadcast and barrier around the house, should I just switch out the SevinSL with demand Cs and keep the other 2 products in the mixture? Or would you recommend something else.

I am trying to control mainly spiders, scorpions, fleas, fire ants, chinch bugs, and knats plus what ever else I am not thinking about that I need to worry about in the San Antonio TX area.

I have talked to my wife and we are definitely going to start doing it ourselves after our contract is up( last treatment on contract is next week)

Will be buying the b&g and the fastcap for inside soon.


----------



## Greendoc

I do not think you need all of that other stuff in the mixture. Demand CS at the label rate has never failed to stop the insects and arachnids. Apparently, Demand works on scorpions rather well. I do not have the highly toxic large black ones or the big reddish brown ones. I have the tiny little sand colored ones. Still, they do not belong inside. Treating outside and into the yard has kept them away.


----------



## bassadict69

How does Bifen compare to these?


----------



## Gibby

bassadict69 said:


> How does Bifen compare to these?


I used Bifen last year and I liked it, except for flies and mosquitos. I just got a quart of Demand yesterday going to use it this weekend.


----------



## bassadict69

Mosquitos is what it was recommended to me for. So far, it hasn't been working as well as the 38% Permethrin I have always used.


----------



## Greendoc

How do you apply the 38% Permethrin? What i get out of Permethrin is extremely fast knockdown of insects but not as much longevity. If I were in dire straits with an infestation, Permethrin and Demand would be the application. Demand does not kill instantly on contact. It is more of a residual product. It is not crazy to mix them. Looking at a can of household flying insect killer right now. There are multiple insecticides all ending in "thrin" so I know they are mixed.


----------



## Ral1121

So I am getting ready to order and am going to use demand. I think I will also use tengard with it as well.

My question is how do you spray? Do you only spray a barrier around the house up the wall a little and maybe 5-10 feet into the yard? Or do you spray the whole yard?


----------



## bassadict69

Greendoc said:


> How do you apply the 38% Permethrin? What i get out of Permethrin is extremely fast knockdown of insects but not as much longevity. If I were in dire straits with an infestation, Permethrin and Demand would be the application. Demand does not kill instantly on contact. It is more of a residual product. It is not crazy to mix them. Looking at a can of household flying insect killer right now. There are multiple insecticides all ending in "thrin" so I know they are mixed.


I forget the exact mix, but I mix with water in backpack sprayer and spray my entire backyard, my patio area and all the eaves of my house. No wasps, mosquitos, fleas, nothing for a couple weeks, less if it rains.


----------



## Greendoc

Ral1121 said:


> So I am getting ready to order and am going to use demand. I think I will also use tengard with it as well.
> 
> My question is how do you spray? Do you only spray a barrier around the house up the wall a little and maybe 5-10 feet into the yard? Or do you spray the whole yard?


I go for total treatment of the entire outside surfaces of the house. From ground to eaves. This is legal and allowed if the sprayed areas are either under a roof or surrounded by vegetation/lawn. Not allowed if the house is surrounded by hard surfaces that drain into waterways. That is utilizing the 0.8 oz per gallon mix of the Demand. Then, I treat lawn and vegetation with the 7 ml per 1000 sq ft rate. I typically apply in 5 gallons per 1000 sq ft. Coverage is your friend. This application is done through a power sprayer capable of applying volume under pressure. Other option is to do it with one of those mist blowers that meter liquid into the stream of air from a leaf blower. I do not like those applicators. Too much drift. The house application is done with a flat fan nozzle operated at 40 PSI. I only have a tiny 1 story house to spray, so 1 gallon is plenty


----------



## bassadict69

bassadict69 said:


> How does Bifen compare to these?


Now that I look closer, the Bifen I use is also bifenthren 7.9%, so same as Talstar?


----------



## Rackhouse Mayor

Gibby said:


> German mother f'in cockroaches - This is the pest from hell. We had multiple different pest control companies come out and try to deal with these things at our old house over the course of probably 3 years. Think them came in from a grocery shopping trip or the neighbors. We must have spent close to $2,000 on battling them. What finally did the trick was after we moved out the pest control company literally bombed the whole inside with DeltaDust and I put out some Advion Roach Bait Stations. We were super duper worried about bringing them to the new house and had them come use DeltaDust in the voids and around the appliances at the new house and I put out a crap load of the bait stations. We have only seen/killed a handful but I replace the bait stations every 3 months. I also bought some Orthene PCO Pellets and Tekko Pro IGR in January but wife can't find where she put it lol... However it has been a good 2 months and haven't seen a German at the new property and over 8 months at the rental.​


I made the mistake of getting boxes from liquor stores when i moved instead of buying them. Then we left a bunch of the boxes in the dining room for a month or two. We think that's what caused a german cockroach infestation, because that area of the house was where I'd notice them. At the time, Do My Own had a kit that I believe included a Tekko Pro IGR and Invict Gold Gel Bait. It worked.

I use Talstar P on both the inside and outside. I have a Chapin 20v backpack sprayer and @dfw_pilot sprayer wand for the outside and @Ware B&G Gallon sprayer for the inside. I'm thinking of adding Demand to the rotation. At the old house my neighbor's flea infestation would work it's way over to my yard about once a year, and I'd have to mix an IGR such as NyGuard with the Talstar to get the whole life cycle.

I recently purchased Taurus SC (fipronil) and plan on treating the outside of the home for termite prevention. I paid a company to do it at the last house. However, they want $800 to do it. I think I'll try it on my own. The biggest pain I foresee will be pickaxing a trench around the whole house.


----------



## metro424

Rackhouse Mayor said:


> Gibby said:
> 
> 
> 
> German mother f'in cockroaches - This is the pest from hell. We had multiple different pest control companies come out and try to deal with these things at our old house over the course of probably 3 years. Think them came in from a grocery shopping trip or the neighbors. We must have spent close to $2,000 on battling them. What finally did the trick was after we moved out the pest control company literally bombed the whole inside with DeltaDust and I put out some Advion Roach Bait Stations. We were super duper worried about bringing them to the new house and had them come use DeltaDust in the voids and around the appliances at the new house and I put out a crap load of the bait stations. We have only seen/killed a handful but I replace the bait stations every 3 months. I also bought some Orthene PCO Pellets and Tekko Pro IGR in January but wife can't find where she put it lol... However it has been a good 2 months and haven't seen a German at the new property and over 8 months at the rental.​
> 
> 
> 
> I made the mistake of getting boxes from liquor stores when i moved instead of buying them. Then we left a bunch of the boxes in the dining room for a month or two. We think that's what caused a german cockroach infestation, because that area of the house was where I'd notice them. At the time, Do My Own had a kit that I believe included a Tekko Pro IGR and Invict Gold Gel Bait. It worked.
> 
> I use Talstar P on both the inside and outside. I have a Chapin 20v backpack sprayer and @dfw_pilot sprayer wand for the outside and @Ware B&G Gallon sprayer for the inside. I'm thinking of adding Demand to the rotation. At the old house my neighbor's flea infestation would work it's way over to my yard about once a year, and I'd have to mix an IGR such as NyGuard with the Talstar to get the whole life cycle.
> 
> I recently purchased Taurus SC (fipronil) and plan on treating the outside of the home for termite prevention. I paid a company to do it at the last house. However, they want $800 to do it. I think I'll try it on my own. The biggest pain I foresee will be pickaxing a trench around the whole house.
Click to expand...

You might want to check with your insurance company, that $800 sounds like it is for the termite bond and I know my insurance requires one for my house


----------



## Rackhouse Mayor

metro424 said:


> You might want to check with your insurance company, that $800 sounds like it is for the termite bond and I know my insurance requires one for my house


They don't. The $800 is to treat the foundation. The insurance company doesn't care one way or another. They don't cover it if the house becomes infested.


----------



## SGrabs33

Rackhouse Mayor said:


> I recently purchased Taurus SC (fipronil) and plan on treating the outside of the home for termite prevention. I paid a company to do it at the last house. However, they want $800 to do it. I think I'll try it on my own. The biggest pain I foresee will be pickaxing a trench around the whole house.


I'm interested to hear how this goes and if anyone else does their own termite protection!


----------



## Ral1121

So I order the b&g for inside spraying. For outside house and lawn application, it mentions a power sprayer. Do you think I can get away with using my hand pump professional model 4 gallon back pack sprayer from chapin? I have one with the DFW wand with a 15 psi regulator. Should I get a 21 or 29 psi regulator and change the nozzle. If so what nozzle would you recommend or should I use something else? Asking mainly for the broadcast app of demand cs


----------



## Gibby

Just did Demand CS with my 2 gallon sprayer around the house and landscaping beds. Definitely need a bigger sprayer before doing the whole yard.


----------



## wartee

Here in Alabamastan we are plagued with these (big) little ba$tards. Any good insecticide options for my 0.4 acre lot? I've had a Mosquito Magnet before, but it was a hassle to deal with the cartridges and propane. Don't really want to buy a fogger if I can avoid it.


----------



## chrismar

mrsmar mentioned she wanted to start getting the yard sprayed for mosquitoes and ticks, and I said "hay! I think I can do it myself!", so here I am with a few questions:

1) It seems that Demand CS is now preferred over Talastar. Is that true?
2) Syngenta says it lasts longer than Talastar, up to 90 days. Whats the recommended outdoor application interval?
3) Syngenta also recommends an IGR (Archer) for maximum effectiveness of ticks and mosquitoes, which are the primary insects I'm looking to control. Is the IGR really needed, or can I get away with just the Demand CS? 
4) Can I use my lawn backpack sprayer for this, or should the application vehicle be dedicated to just the pesticides?
5) Whats the best application technique to be "bee friendly"? I want to apply this around the perimeter of the house, around the pool and in the back lawn. Do I need to spray the flower beds and bushes too, or should those be avoided?

A little background: ticks and mosquitoes seem to be ramping up quickly, which is a bit earlier than usual. I have about 12,000 of turf, 2,000 SF of patio and 1,500-2,000 SF or so of mulched beds in the areas I want to control.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Greendoc

If your spray coverage is good, it is very possible to get up to 90 days out of an applicaction of Demand CS. I do not rely on a low pressure backback sprayer to provide the coverage I am looking for. I use some kind of power sprayer. Mine is high pressure and engine driven. The people advertising perimeter and mosquito control use a lot of mistblowers. Those use a stream of air at high volume and speed to literally fog the entire yard area. You will have to spray into the lawn and nearby ground cover with a more wetting spray to kill the ticks. The plants and shrubs will have to be sprayed as well, maybe not until runoff. The bees will be ok if you do not do your spraying in the daytime when they are out. To be honest, I prefer to spray for mosquitoes at dusk. That way I can catch them when they are out and about.


----------



## Greendoc

wartee said:


> Here in Alabamastan we are plagued with these (big) little ba$tards. Any good insecticide options for my 0.4 acre lot? I've had a Mosquito Magnet before, but it was a hassle to deal with the cartridges and propane. Don't really want to buy a fogger if I can avoid it.


When you say fogger, I am thinking of the device that burns propane and vaporizes an insecticide in oil. Much llike the DDT trucks in the 1960s. Otherwise, for your size of property, a small mistblower is a legitimate option. Price of those machines has really come down since Solo is no longer the only major manufacturer. I do not live on a 0.5 acre lot, get my share of calls to spray 0.5 acre lots. Cannot imagine making applications on anything that size with a hand pumped device. In another time, before pesticides became a dirty word, and Tru-Green came to be overselling and under delivering, there was such a thing as an estate sprayer. 10-50 gallon tank. Towable with the garden tractor or pulled by hand. Fitted with a small engine and high pressure pump. These units had 25 or so ft of hose and a spray gun for the flower beds as welll as a boom for the lawn. Nothing like the spot sprayers of today with the 1 GPM electric pump. I though those old sprayers were made to the standards of commercial lawn care. Then again, no such thing as commercial lawn care back then. You did your own spraying, even if your lawn was a half acre.


----------



## JohnP

@Greendoc I have family stationed in Hawaii for the next 3 years. If I wanted to send them a budget sprayer to use with Demand CS what would you recommend? They talked about how the bugs are crazy.


----------



## Greendoc

Sorry to hear that. I guess they met the giant cockroaches and centipedes. Never mind how the mosquitoes will swarm anyone standing outside. Depending on the size of their yard, any one gallon hand sprayer will work. If they have a lot of vegetation to cover, as in their back yard opens up into an unmaintained wild area, I go for the hose end guns.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

wartee said:


> Here in Alabamastan we are plagued with these (big) little ba$tards. Any good insecticide options for my 0.4 acre lot? I've had a Mosquito Magnet before, but it was a hassle to deal with the cartridges and propane. Don't really want to buy a fogger if I can avoid it.


Check out the SkeeterVac, by Blue Rhino. I bought one after Hurricane Matthew 2 years ago. It's completely standalone, needing no AC power to work. It runs on propane which powers the engine for the electronic fan and vacuum and the attractant. It works great for my lot, and I've got had some pretty heavy mosquito activity. Once I put it out, I noticed a dramatic drop in the activity and annoyances/bites. I get about 3 weeks to a propane fill, and it runs 24/7.

Reason I bought this over the Mosquito Magnet is that people were saying they were getting 1 season out of their unit, while this one was working multiples. I've had no issues with mine, and would buy another.


----------



## PokeGrande

SimonR said:


> I wouldn't combine a PGR with an insecticide to treat soil lurking insects. If you're using bifthernin or imidiclporid they need to be watered in immediately as exposure sunlight will degrade their effectiveness. Given that you want a PGR on the leaf for as long as you can, I would split apps up into foliar and soil treatments. I know the Primo label says it is rain fast after 1 hr (I think) but I've had better results leaving PGR on the leaf as long as possible.


Just confirming that if I spray the lawn with Talstar, I *should* water it in after.


----------



## gatormac2112

I just found this guy dead on top of the grass in the middle of my lawn. Have never seen one in my yard before. Should I be concerned? The yard looks great at the moment.

I applied Grubex in early April I believe and put down 1 app of Talstar P a couple months ago....I've been bad about keeping up with that


----------



## Greendoc

Carve a notch on your belt .


----------



## gatormac2112

Greendoc said:


> Carve a notch on your belt .


Should the notch go up and down or side to side?


----------



## Greendoc

Up and down. If you are doing it right the belt is going to have a lot of notches. Run out of room doing it side to side. :mrgreen:


----------



## gatormac2112

Greendoc said:


> Up and down. If you are doing it right the belt is going to have a lot of notches. Run out of room doing it side to side. :mrgreen:


I just got another notch in my belt



Definitely going to get some Talstar P out tomorrow.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

gatormac2112 said:


> Definitely going to get some Talstar P out tomorrow.


Wow, a female Red Velvet Ant (wasp) aka "Cow Killer" ant.

So glad we don't have those up here in New England!


----------



## Dico112lr4

gatormac2112 said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Up and down. If you are doing it right the belt is going to have a lot of notches. Run out of room doing it side to side. :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> I just got another notch in my belt
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely going to get some Talstar P out tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I set a calendar event in my calendar and have it set to repeat every 4 weeks. Seems to work wonders on mosquitoes, but finding random dead bugs/beetles is always a plus.


----------



## gatormac2112

ken-n-nancy said:


> gatormac2112 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely going to get some Talstar P out tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, a female Red Velvet Ant (wasp) aka "Cow Killer" ant.
> 
> So glad we don't have those up here in New England!
Click to expand...

Yep, I stomped on her....4 times. She shrugged her shoulders and scurried off :lol:


----------



## Spammage

@gatormac2112 weird, just this week I've been seeing some crazy wasps that we discovered are cicada killers. Interestingly enough, your crazy find lays it's eggs with the larvae of my crazy find. I guess I need to be on the lookout for these now. :lol:


----------



## gatormac2112

Spammage said:


> weird, just this week I've been seeing some crazy wasps that we discovered are cicada killers. Interestingly enough, your crazy find lays it's eggs with the larvae of my crazy find. I guess I need to be on the lookout for these now. :lol:


I honestly had no idea what it was, I was just thinking damn what a huge ant!


----------



## southpaw748

I have been fighting Japanese beetles and mole crickets in my centipede front yard all summer. After reading much of this thread I have decided to put our Bifen 7.9 but do you water it in or not?


----------



## tblood

Saving this topic


----------



## Gibby

SCGrassMan said:


> Also in SC Imidicloprid you need a license to buy it if I remember correctly so I can't easily get it anyway.


Do you have a source for this? I am trying to figure out because I have been used Dominion 2L a few times and it's AI is Imidicloprid.

I was checking out Fipronil and noticed that Termidor SC is not for sale in SC but Taurus SC is, according to domyown both with the same AI Fipronil 9.1%....

I found where it talks about needing a license for certain things in SC from https://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t46c013.php but I can't find a list.


----------



## BenC

SimonR said:


> Beetle larvae are my big issue, and I just used Imid this year with 2 apps, mid-spring and mid-summer and had no beetle larvae issues what so ever. Use your AI nozzles and as MQ mentioned water in straight afterwards as it systemic and root absorbed.


Also has translaminr adsorption (foliar absorption)


----------



## iFisch3224

Picked up a bottle of Suspend and Demand (because they were on sale when I ordered both), so I did.

We are surrounded by lakes where I live (on all sides) so mosquitoes are the #1 pest. I have not dealt with any ants, or cockroaches this year (did spray, preventatively) and overall doing well on the insect side.

I will try both at a medium rate dose (at different times for effectiveness) and see how they work around my house. I do have a small yard compared to my house (yard is roughly 2x the size of the size) and Bifen was a miracle this year - very inexpensive and will definitely use again. Very happy with the results from Bifen. Suspend and Demand are by far the most expensive insecticides I've purchased this year, but like others may have mentioned -

Smaller quantities (possibly less pressure on environment) required to be mixed.

And supposedly longer indoor/outdoor prevention which is appealing as well. Less frequent applications are a definite plus.  [definitely going to test longevity]


----------



## Chicken Man

Hey guys,
I was pulling up some goose grass today and noticed these guys.
What are they?


----------



## SCGrassMan

Gibby said:


> SCGrassMan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also in SC Imidicloprid you need a license to buy it if I remember correctly so I can't easily get it anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a source for this? I am trying to figure out because I have been used Dominion 2L a few times and it's AI is Imidicloprid.
> 
> I was checking out Fipronil and noticed that Termidor SC is not for sale in SC but Taurus SC is, according to domyown both with the same AI Fipronil 9.1%....
> 
> I found where it talks about needing a license for certain things in SC from https://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t46c013.php but I can't find a list.
Click to expand...

I'd call Possums Landscape Supply, or talk to Holly Lizotte from clemson. Both are findable on google.


----------



## N LA Hacker

Chicken Man said:


> Hey guys,
> I was pulling up some goose grass today and noticed these guys.
> What are they?


Looks like armyworms.


----------



## Chicken Man

Ok guys,

After finding the army worms in my yard I looked for the best insecticide to kill them without harming my two cats that live outside. I've never considered myself a cat guy, but I've kinda grown fond of these two knuckleheads.

I have some Tengard (Permethrin) here that I use around the farm to kill pests, but from what I've read may be bad for the cats.

I bought a bag of Sevin (Carbaryl) granules a couple of years back that I never used. Army worms was listed as one of the pests that it kills.

I put it out, watered it in as the label said, and waited.

I walked around and saw several army worms rolling around. They were not crawling around as before. I think this may have helped.

Anyone know if the Bermuda will come back from this?

It's amazing how this all happened over the last week or so.


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## jonthepain

Army worms can decimate a lawn in a hurry.


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## crzipilot

Lawn can come back. Look at my beginning journal. In fact just got my spreader mate last week, and get to use it today for spraying out sevin. Have a second coming of the buggers. Figure their larva hatched a little bit ago. Think it's been about 4 weeks since I last sprayed.


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## William

Thanks MQ, just sprayed your combo tonight. Expecting a light rain tonight. Going to do Celcius tomorrow in the heat.


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## William

So a update.

I applied Celsius this afternoon. After a few hours, aka night time, I went to check with my headlight to see if it was dry.

Low and behold there were literally thousands of dead Beatles and crickets. So happy. Mowed this afternoon before application to .63 with groomer at .64. All the stuff I have bought is finally paying off now that I am using it.

Anyhow, a truly heartfelt thanks for all the advice.


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## Spammage

@William Celsius??? Did you add bifenthrin into the spray or something?


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## William

Spammage said:


> @William Celsius??? Did you add bifenthrin into the spray or something?


I did 2 sprays. Friday evening I did the 2 insecticides mentioned by MQ. Saturday I did a application of Celsius. So 2 separate sprays.


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## Gibby

William said:


> Spammage said:
> 
> 
> 
> @William Celsius??? Did you add bifenthrin into the spray or something?
> 
> 
> 
> I did 2 sprays. Friday evening I did the 2 insecticides mentioned by MQ. Saturday I did a application of Celsius. So 2 separate sprays.
Click to expand...

Why did you just mix them all into 1 spray?


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## William

Gibby said:


> William said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spammage said:
> 
> 
> 
> @William Celsius??? Did you add bifenthrin into the spray or something?
> 
> 
> 
> I did 2 sprays. Friday evening I did the 2 insecticides mentioned by MQ. Saturday I did a application of Celsius. So 2 separate sprays.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why did you just mix them all into 1 spray?
Click to expand...

Mainly because it is the first time I used the Spreader-Mate. I wanted to spray with the cheap stuff first! In the future I will. I'll wait 4-5 hours and then water it in.


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## Spammage

William said:


> Spammage said:
> 
> 
> 
> @William Celsius??? Did you add bifenthrin into the spray or something?
> 
> 
> 
> I did 2 sprays. Friday evening I did the 2 insecticides mentioned by MQ. Saturday I did a application of Celsius. So 2 separate sprays.
Click to expand...

I figured as much but wanted clarification so that future readers aren't potentially mislead into thinking that Celsius also kills bugs.


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## Podsi

Colonel K0rn said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colonel K0rn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing the reason that the Taurus or the Termidor products that I mentioned in your other post are labeled not to be used on fire ants is because they're specifically labelled as termiticides, and not insecticides? AI is still AI, and fipronil kills 'em dead, that's for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> Taurus or Termidor is not a Federal Restricted Use pesticide. TopChoice, a granular Fipronil labeled for outdoor application for fire ants is. I do not see what is wrong with a limited application of Termidor to an ant mound. Others have told me all it takes is a shot of diluted product from a quart trigger sprayer and the mound is dead. Makes more sense to me than spreading a granule all over the place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've always thought this is weird, because both Taurus G and TopChoice are .0143% fipronil. So why does one require a license and the other doesn't? And I recently was denied purchase of Taurus G on solutionstore.com because I didn't have a license, but was allowed to purchase TopChoice on seedworldusa.com without a license. Seems like the regs, and enforcement are inconsistent. Which I'm not complaining about, because it's enabling me to save thousands of dollars over the next several years. If you can find Taurus G without a license, I recommend it because it's cheaper than TopChoice, but it's not a big deal, because my 50 lb. bag of TopChoice is going to last me like 15 years.
Click to expand...


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## crzipilot

New to all of this, and been learning quickly etc. Fert store guys have been pretty good explaining stuff etc.

Anyways, reading the label for Demand CS and getting confused. I had gotten a handle on breaking everything down to 1` gal/1000sq ft and figuring what amount of product to mix with each Gal of water. Now looking at the label they are talking 8 gal/1000sq ft etc etc.....

"Example calculation: to treat listed turf pests at the mid-rate for
Demand CS Insecticide of 7 mL/1,000 sq ft, determine gallons dilution/1,000
sq ft needed to cover turf. At 5 gallons/1,000 sq ft, add
7 mL ÷ 5 or 1.4 mL per gallon. For a 50-gallon tank, this would be
equivalent to 70 mL or 2.5 fl oz in 50 gallons water"

I've got sprayer and pace calibrated to 1gal/1000sq ft. do i figure putting down 5 gal/1000sq ft or just break that down more to 1000sq ft?

What rates are you guys mixing at?


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## Redland1

What can I use for army wormsand white grubs?
Bifen?


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## Greendoc

Dylox 420 SL. Granular Dylox can be inconsistent if you have old product . Reason being that moisture reacting with the granules will destroy the AI. One of the reasons why Dylox is not banned is because once in contact with water it decomposes in a matter of days.


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## CamaroGuy

Can I mix Prodiamine with Talsar for my St. Augustine?

And yes, army worms will eat a yard up quick.


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## Matthew_73

Sorry if I missed this, but have been reading and learning lots... If I got both of these, Can I add them in the same mix and spray them in the same areas? lawn? outside areas, windows, doors, crevices?


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## Matthew_73

Matthew_73 said:


> Sorry if I missed this, but have been reading and learning lots... If I got both of these, Can I add them in the same mix and spray them in the same areas? lawn? outside areas, windows, doors, crevices?


after watching, they are different.. I am assuming.. well I am watching the demo videos.


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## desirous

@Matthew_73, why would you want to spray Prodiamine on your windows and doors? It's a pre-emergent herbicide, and Talstar is a pesticide. You can mix them and spray on the lawn.


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## Matthew_73

desirous said:


> @Matthew_73, why would you want to spray Prodiamine on your windows and doors? It's a pre-emergent herbicide, and Talstar is a pesticide. You can mix them and spray on the lawn.


Where did you get prodiamine from. I'm talking about the two main insecticides he mentioned on the first post. 🤦‍♂️


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## Matthew_73

So I ordered Demand and I have some Bifen IT How could I use these to Combat most and any pests that can and will enter into my yard.

I plan on using the Bifen in my yard.


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## Mightyquinn

Matthew_73 said:


> So I ordered Demand and I have some Bifen IT How could I use these to Combat most and any pests that can and will enter into my yard.
> 
> I plan on using the Bifen in my yard.


You will need to spray Bifen monthly to keep the bugs at bay.


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## Jameshtx

Do you recommend insecticide with hose end or backpack? Can it be used with either? I use a hose end sprayer but read somewhere that it it's not accurate. Thx


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## ccasanova

I have the ImidaPro 2SC & Cyzmic CC (Demand) in my DYO cart.

2 quick questions:

There are several Imidacloprid 21% products...is this the one I want, or is there a cheaper/better/etc option?

Planning to spray my half acre of "nice yard" (60ac of woods/swamp) every 3 months. Is Sept/Dec/Mar/June a good schedule? Or wait until October?

I just sprayed Bifen @1oz/gal in the carport, inside house, and outside house, yesterday.


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## RubyFired22

ccasanova said:


> I have the ImidaPro 2SC & Cyzmic CC (Demand) in my DYO cart.
> 
> 2 quick questions:
> 
> There are several Imidacloprid 21% products...is this the one I want, or is there a cheaper/better/etc option?
> 
> Planning to spray my half acre of "nice yard" (60ac of woods/swamp) every 3 months. Is Sept/Dec/Mar/June a good schedule? Or wait until October?
> 
> I just sprayed Bifen @1oz/gal in the carport, inside house, and outside house, yesterday.


I went with Dominion 2L. Only $26 for 27 oz where as Imadapro is $44 for 32oz. Both 21% Imida.

Also, I see no problem cutting your 2nd app a month short. Just doesn't give the bugs a chance to even try to come back! 😂


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## mjh648

@RubyFired22 I was looking at those 2 also. What's interesting is the Dominion is being listed as a termiticide and insecticide whereas Imidapro has no mention of termites even in the label PDF.


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## gooodawgs

@Mightyquinn and others - I purchased these 2 products as you recommended, and have a dumb question... how do these gallon size squeeze/measure/pour bottles work!? I've used the smaller 32 ounce bottles fine, but this Talstar bottle is a mystery.

I like the concept of tip and pour, but need some help! Feel free to shake your head and laugh too


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## Mightyquinn

I never used it as I transferred the gallon into 32 oz bottles that I had and used a measuring cup. I found that a lot easier than using that "tip n pour" measuring device in the bottle.


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## mjh648

gooodawgs said:


> @Mightyquinn and others - I purchased these 2 products as you recommended, and have a dumb question... how do these gallon size squeeze/measure/pour bottles work!? I've used the smaller 32 ounce bottles fine, but this Talstar bottle is a mystery.
> 
> I like the concept of tip and pour, but need some help! Feel free to shake your head and laugh too


you tip to get it inside the measuring area and then open up the cap and pour right?


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## gooodawgs

:thumbup: That's it @mjh648 I was trying to squeeze it and not tip. Long day! Thanks!


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## mjh648

@gooodawgs if it's any consolation there ARE some squeeze ones too.


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## Reel_Alabama

Does the Imidacloprid ding the grass the same way the Bifenthrin does? I just did a PGR app on Monday and didn't want to slow things down too much. Thanks.

Edit* Bifenthrin doesn't ding the turf. I confused it with a fungicide app from the fall. I wanted to clarify for anyone reading through this thread.


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## DFW St Aug

I am looking to protect my home, yard and control mosquitos in the summer and was curious what some of you are currently using as an insecticide rotation. Since this topic goes back several years, I want to make sure I am using the most up to date information.

Products that I am looking at based on this topic are: Imidacloprid, Permethrin, Bifen, Nygard and Cyzmic.

What would be a good rotation and how often do I need to apply? My former bug guys was spraying 4 times a year, but I'm assuming this isn't enough to also keep mosquitos at bay in the summer. Will any of these products harm my turf?


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## GPLC90

Mightyquinn said:



> ImidaPro 2 SC (Active Ingredient-Imidacloprid 21.4%)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This product is good for all your soil dwelling insects like grubs, army worms and caterpillars and the like. For lawns all you need is .6oz/K every 3 months to keep them at bay. It is recommended to put this down BEFORE any infestation occurs but I have used it after discovering the nasty little critters with good success. The earlier in the life stages you can catch them with it, the better control you will have. If you are applying every 3 months from Spring till Fall you shouldn't have any issues with the above mentioned pests. This needs to be watered in within 24 hours after application to make sure it is washed through the thatch layer, so just time an application with rain or irrigation. This too is safe for pets and kids once it is dry or watered in. Be sure to test mix this product also before adding it to another product, I do know that this CAN be mixed without any issue with the Talstar P that I mentioned above.


Can some explain what I missing…. From reading the label I gathered that the maximum amount I could apply in one year was 0.6 fl. Oz. Per 1k. Because of the active ingredient maximum per year. I highlighted the portion on the label.

So on a 15k yard I could only apply 9 ounces in one year. Is this right or am I miss understanding the label? Because the post above said 0.6 every 3 months which would be 36 ounces in a year.


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## Mightyquinn

The label is correct and also what you read is correct . I had been doing this for years, applying every 3 months, but I ended up calling the manufacturer and they said what I was doing wouldn't cause any harm. I've been doing it for quite awhile now with no negative effects and I have never had a grub issue or any other bug issue for that matter by using Bifen monthly and Imidacloprid quarterly during the growing season.


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## Humbert810

Can someone explain the benefit to me of this plan over just using granular Talstar Xtra every 3 months or as needed? What benefit does the ImidaPro offer?


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## Humbert810

Anyone?


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## ionicatoms

ImidaPro is a systemic insecticide, capable of being absorbed and transported by plant tissue which may be susceptible to consumption by a pest, whereas Bifenthrin is only a contact insecticide. You can think of it as an additional layer of security.

Although quite popular, I have not had a need for it, and perhaps you will decide the same. I prefer to treat with GrubEx or its liquid alternative Acelepryn due to its reduced risk profile. Many also decide to go without this treatment as well depending on their tolerance for pests or budget.


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## Humbert810

ionicatoms said:


> ImidaPro is a systemic insecticide, capable of being absorbed and transported by plant tissue which may be susceptible to consumption by a pest, whereas Bifenthrin is only a contact insecticide. You can think of it as an additional layer of security.
> 
> Although quite popular, I have not had a need for it, and perhaps you will decide the same. I prefer to treat with GrubEx or its liquid alternative Acelepryn due to its reduced risk profile. Many also decide to go without this treatment as well depending on their tolerance for pests or budget.


I am mostly concerned with grubs, mole crickets and fire ants at this time. Talstar Xtra will suffice for these 3 pests correct?


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## ionicatoms

Humbert810 said:


> I am mostly concerned with grubs, mole crickets and fire ants at this time. Talstar Xtra will suffice for these 3 pests correct?


I doubt it. I don't see grubs on the label.


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