# Total Lawn Reno Spoiled, but recovering nicely.



## epjohnso (May 31, 2018)

Hey guys-

I have a question that I would like to pose to the experts here. I was going to start a lawn journal online to document my renovation, but life got busy and that never happened. I did keep hand written notes and took pictures. So first I would like to say the primary reason for the renovation was to get rid of quack grass, fine fescue and to fix a long time standing water area. I also should note that I live in Sioux Falls, SD

I did roughly 3 applications of glyphosate spread out approximate 14 days and would say i had very good coverage. 


Grading work:


Seedbed:


Sept 6: I put down Scott's starter fert with weed preventer, broadcast seeded and slit seeded Midnight *** -25 LBS over 7,000 square foot of yard. Then used a lawn roller for seed to soil contact.

Set the sprinklers to water 3 times a day (10am, 1pm, 4pm) to keep the dirt damp as usual. Perfect weather except a little more than desired wind for the first week.

Sept. 14 Started to see sprouts!!




Sept 17th:


Sept 19th: Here is when things started to turn south!
Between Sept 19th and 20th we got over 9.5 inches of rain

















Oct. 3 After all this rain, and up to current we have been in the 50-to 60's as a high with many of the days being overcast. So needless to say the soil temp is right below 60 degrees.



This is what it looks like today. Are there any suggestions as to the spots that have vary sparatic sprouts of grass? Do i wait it out and see what happens? Do i try to overseed and put some peatmoss down? Am i just being to anxious?









I also have some Lesco 32-0-10 that I'm wondering if i should be putting down now that it's been about 30 days since seeding?

I am open to any suggestions as to what to do next.

Thanks,
Eric


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Welcome to TLF

I would start counting from germination (14sept). Time is not in your favor with a late seeding. I will not think twice and I would drop seeds in the bare areas. Without sun, it might not grow much this year.

This weekend will be week 3, start nitrogen then.

FYI, you did all the right steps in your prep. The rain and late seeding will not help.


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## epjohnso (May 31, 2018)

Thanks for the feedback, i got my suggested seeding time from a sod farm in the area, go figure!

Would you just broadcast the seed over the bare areas without doing any prep or peat moss?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

That's what I did on mine. I did a light raking before the seeds in the areas really bare. I was trying to to screw up what was growing.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

epjohnso said:


> I did roughly 3 applications of glyphosate ... Grading work ... Seedbed...


First, I want to say that it looks to me that you did an excellent job on preparation. All the right steps, nice grading, nice seedbed, everything good!



epjohnso said:


> ... I live in Sioux Falls, SD...
> Sept 6: I ... seeded Midnight *** -25 LBS over 7,000 square foot of yard. Then used a lawn roller for seed to soil contact.


All the right seeding steps, too. In your photos from a few days before the rain, it looked like everything was on track and looking very good!

My one comment, if you ever do this again, relates to the seeding date. I looked up the average first frost for Sioux Falls, SD, and it's Sept 28. Mine here in Bedford, NH is Sept 26. I didn't get my seed down as early this year as I should have. You didn't either.

August 15th would be a much better seeding date for our cooler climates and the rapidly-shortening days to have the lawn pretty well established by the beginning of October. Also, with a seeding date about 3 weeks earlier, your current dilemma would be happening around the middle of September, instead of during the first week of October.



epjohnso said:


> Between Sept 19th and 20th we got over 9.5 inches of rain


It seems to me you did everything right, but 9.5 inches of rain is just too much. Those pics are heart-wrenching. I'm so sorry!



epjohnso said:


> Oct. 3 After all this rain, and up to current we have been in the 50-to 60's as a high with many of the days being overcast. So needless to say the soil temp is right below 60 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> This is what it looks like today. Are there any suggestions as to the spots that have vary sparatic sprouts of grass? Do i wait it out and see what happens?


Here's my two cents, looking at your pictures, and presuming your climate there is similar, given the similarity in our latitudes and first frost dates.

In our locations, I think it's too late to seed Midnight and have anything that germinates survive winter. Some might, but I doubt it. In a "no choice due to septic system work" seeding of Bewitched KBG that I did a couple years ago on October 11th, none of the Bewitched KBG seed germinated where I seeded just KBG, at least that I could tell. I didn't see germination the following spring, either, so I think that seed all just perished. (The spots I seeded with PRG at that time did make it, though.)

That said, I don't think they'd be any harm in your sowing more Midnight KBG seed into bare areas -- well, unless continuation of frequent watering harms what has already germinated.

However, I wouldn't give up hope on what you have. Is the density of seedlings that you have in the close-up photo with the thermometer typical of most of the renovation area? Is that a "more bare" spot? Is that one of the better coverage spots?

The reason I ask is that in my side lawn renovation to Bewitched KBG in 20`15, I seeded too late also, on September 9th. We didn't have 9.5 inches of rain like you did, but due to the late seeding and the short days of October, it was looking pretty sparse come winter. It never got tall enough for me to even think of mowing.

Below is the last pic from that renovation before winter. (21 Oct 2015)









In what looks like bare areas in the photo, I had very sparse coverage, much like what is in your thermometer photo. I never seeded more in the fall. I didn't seed more the following spring, either. However, combined with tender care, spring fertilization, and the magic of KBG, below is what it looked like going into summer after one spring. (8 June 2016)









What I'm saying is that if the bare areas in your renovation have as much coverage as in the thermometer photo - with at least one seedling in every thermometer-sized (say 2" circle) patch of ground, I think you've got a shot, even with no more seeding. Realize that every single one of those seedlings can grow up into a clump of Kentucky bluegrass at least 2" in diameter. If all of them do that, you'll be fine. Plus, the ones that will make it are the tough ones - the survivors - they'll get to spring, be ready to grow, won't have any contention for nutrients due to overcrowding, and with healthy fertilization, grow they will! It won't look like a real lawn until the end of spring, but by then, it will.

If you have expanses where there aren't any seedlings at all, well, you're gonna need to add seed to those!



epjohnso said:


> I also have some Lesco 32-0-10 that I'm wondering if i should be putting down now that it's been about 30 days since seeding?


Is that last photo, with the tape measure, in the renovation area? If so, that grass looks to me that it's ready for fertilization. I'd suggest a light feeding of no more than 0.25#N/ksqft, carefully applied to avoid spots with excess coverage.

Personally, I'd focus on maximizing the growth and development of what you have that's out of the ground and not worry about more seeding at this time in the Dakotas. I've erred in the past by focusing my attention on the watering needs of a 10% of my lawn that was being re-seeded, at the cost of harming the 50% that was doing pretty well, and the other 40% that was kind of okay. Better to focus your attention on the majority of what you have and help it do its best, rather than risk that by doing germination watering for another 3 weeks on new seed.


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## epjohnso (May 31, 2018)

Thanks for the detailed response ken-n-nancy, that really helps. In response the thermometer picture, that would be a representative of a "bare spot". I would say there is a sprout about every 2 spots in the area's that aren't as thick.


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## epjohnso (May 31, 2018)

A quick update:. Still been very wet, but no more flooding rain. Since my last post, I put down the suggested .25 lbs per 1000 of Nitrogen as well as some RGS and Humic at suggested rates. In the following pictures you will see the black stains from from the N-Ext products, but I also am noticing disease.







Is there anything I should put down this late in the year on the new grass? Will the *** survive if nothing is put down?


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## georgiadad (Aug 18, 2018)

I'm not good on diseases. So I'll leave that to others.

Start some pots now. In 6 weeks you will be able to drop mature grass into the ground.


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

The coverage is looking really good! Nice work!

I would apply Scott's Disease Ex at the curative rate (4lbs per M).

I actually just had the same in my reno with the warm wet weather.

the fungicide guid is a great reference for disease, too.


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

georgiadad said:


> I'm not good on diseases. So I'll leave that to others.
> 
> Start some pots now. In 6 weeks you will be able to drop mature grass into the ground.


In 6 weeks there will be snow on the ground most likely.


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## epjohnso (May 31, 2018)

Thanks for the quick responses. I will give Scotts Disease Ex a shot and hope for the best. Any thoughts on putting this down when the ground is soggy, or can I wait till i'm not sinking an inch into the mud?


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## georgiadad (Aug 18, 2018)

jessehurlburt said:


> georgiadad said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not good on diseases. So I'll leave that to others.
> ...


I guess that makes it a crap shoot. But It's better to try and fail than to not try at all.

The advantages of pots is you have established roots. So if you can get them in the ground before snow/ frozen turf, you win. It won't spread until spring but you're a step ahead.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

I feel your pain when it comes to a seeding washout; if you look at my renovation last year, I got a lot of rain the day of seeding, then an absolute washout a week in. It also didn't help that my soil drained very poorly. I'm also particularly interested to see your renovation through to next year. The wife and I are looking at SD/NE for our next move, and knowing nothing about the area, I'm definitely curious about your weather and the cultivars of grass that will do well there.


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## epjohnso (May 31, 2018)

Colonel K0rn said:


> I feel your pain when it comes to a seeding washout; if you look at my renovation last year, I got a lot of rain the day of seeding, then an absolute washout a week in. It also didn't help that my soil drained very poorly. I'm also particularly interested to see your renovation through to next year. The wife and I are looking at SD/NE for our next move, and knowing nothing about the area, I'm definitely curious about your weather and the cultivars of grass that will do well there.


I will certainly keep updating as I go. Hopeful for positive updates though! We got another 1.5 inches between today and yesterday, with a chance of flurries tomorrow I think. Way to early! Not sure when I could put this disease control down...


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## epjohnso (May 31, 2018)

Well here is an update to my lawn renovation from last year. I've attached a few recent photo's of some good and bad areas as well as a first mow at 5/8" with the Greens Master 1000.

My decision this year was to skip Pre-emergent and and reseed with Starter Fert and Tenacity. I garden weaseled the more bare spots over seeded and added 6-70lbs bags of Peat Moss. Now just pray that the bare spots start to fill in.


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

Wow, great work! Looks awesome!


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

Hang in there as I'm in the same boat as you . We got a lot of rain last fall when i did my reno as well and had to reseed some areas twice. I will have to do some plugging, reseed a small area and try to thicken up the lawn. I already put down pre-emergent and .6 lbs. per k of nitrogen to get things started and plan another.6 lbs. of n in another 3 weeks.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Wow even all those obstacles, you were still able to come out with a fantastic outcome. Awesome!


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## krusej23 (May 8, 2018)

That looks fantastic for the weather that you have had in Sioux Falls. I have family up there and you guys have been pounded by mother nature this last year.


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## epjohnso (May 31, 2018)

There are quite a few spots that aren't near what this looks like in the front yard, but i'm trying to be optimistic.  . Hoping I can stay ahead of the weeds that will be popping up once the weather starts to turn a bit nicer.

I will have to be more consistent on where I take update pictures.


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## epjohnso (May 31, 2018)

Everybody has their best little patch of grass in a renovation< don't they? Here is mine.


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## epjohnso (May 31, 2018)

Here are a couple updated pictures. Overall, my overseeding this spring has done well. I have been cutting at 1 inch with my rotary and once in awhile get the Green master 1000 and go down to 3/4".


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## Avalawn T (Sep 11, 2018)

Great job!! That is looking good!! I remember seeing your troubles last year and man you have come a long way. If it was super easy it wouldn't be as much fun and now you have some amazing before and after pics to be proud of.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Looks great.. That'll fill in nicely by the end of the year with just fertilizer and care..


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## epjohnso (May 31, 2018)

Thanks, sure is nerve racking. Patience something I am learning along the way.


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## td_05 (Mar 28, 2019)

Nice work, way to hang in there! Greetings from Rapid City...


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## epjohnso (May 31, 2018)

Here is a quick update after our summer months. What a change 4 months can make, HOC recently has been 11/16"


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