# Should I repair or do a fresh install?



## Binny09 (May 24, 2020)

I recently moved into house that has much bigger backyard than the previous one. But the problem is that this 3500 sq ft back lawn has all kind of weeds and moss problems. Attaching a couple of pics for reference.

I can't decide whether I should try to repair this lawn with weed killers or should I just take everything out and install a fresh lawn. Of course installing a fresh lawn is going to set me back by at least by 3-4 grands. So I am little inclined to try and fix it. But don't want to spend money, time and energy only to find later on that I still need a fresh lawn.

I don't have much experience with weed killers so any pro advice would be much appreciated!


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

I vote fix. There's enough grass that it eventually should look good and clean. You can get 2,4-D where you live, right? Because that should take care of a lot of this. Whatever it doesn't, you can try Triclopyr and Carfentrazone. But you'll have to wait a month or two to start spraying due to the heat. You might not get it totally clean before the Winter. Also, can you get pre-emergents like Prodiamine/Pendimethalin and Isoxaben there? Those will help a lot, too...every Spring and late Summer for a few years.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

I agree with Green I would fix definitely worth a shot and much more budget friendly.


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## Binny09 (May 24, 2020)

Green said:


> I vote fix. There's enough grass that it eventually should look good and clean. You can get 2,4-D where you live, right? Because that should take care of a lot of this. Whatever it doesn't, you can try Triclopyr and Carfentrazone. But you'll have to wait a month or two to start spraying due to the heat. You might not get it totally clean before the Winter. Also, can you get pre-emergents like Prodiamine/Pendimethalin and Isoxaben there? Those will help a lot, too...every Spring and late Summer for a few years.


Is this what you are referring to when you say 2,4-D?

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/scott-weed-b-gon-max-ready-to-use-5l-weed-control-with-wand-applicator/1001493494?rrec=true

Also, should I spray the entire lawn as weeds are quite dominant or should I try to target specific areas?


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## thin_concrete (Sep 11, 2020)

I'm not able to zoom in on the picture in your HD CA link, but here's 2,4D and it's active ingredients. I use this combined with quinclorac and have had a lot of success this summer with that combination on both crabgrass and spurge, and many other weeds. I don't use that combo exclusively, but it's great if it's available in your area.

https://www.domyown.com/4d-c-114_461.html?page=all


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## Chuuurles (Nov 23, 2020)

I'm​


Binny09 said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> > I vote fix. There's enough grass that it eventually should look good and clean. You can get 2,4-D where you live, right? Because that should take care of a lot of this. Whatever it doesn't, you can try Triclopyr and Carfentrazone. But you'll have to wait a month or two to start spraying due to the heat. You might not get it totally clean before the Winter. Also, can you get pre-emergents like Prodiamine/Pendimethalin and Isoxaben there? Those will help a lot, too...every Spring and late Summer for a few years.
> ...


That's an iron based weed killer.. check out the Canada section of the hometown discussions.


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## hankhill11 (May 20, 2019)

I will throw 2cents in, and say go for a repair. IMO unless you have a lot of added problems, to many people 'nuke' their lawns and start over. One of the reasons is probably to get the grass seed they really want, like a mono stand or some elite seed type. By just treating your weeds, you may have brown patches of dead weeds, but the grass will fill in, or just overseed properly and it'll be just fine in the end. also look to the future, not the 'now', no solution will be quick


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## cfinden (Aug 7, 2018)

@Binny09 you can buy Killex from Home depot in Vancouver, or many other garden/home stores, it has 24D Dicamaba and Mecoprop P, this should take care of most of your weeds. See screenshots below of what you're looking for.


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## Binny09 (May 24, 2020)

Thank you for all the expert advice!

I have decided to go with the popular vote and try to repair the lawn.

Sprayed some 2-4,D last evening to front 3rd of the lawn. I will post the results in a couple of weeks.


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## johnklein25 (Apr 22, 2021)

Good decision on fixing vs. starting over. Be sure to apply the herbicide per label instructions. There should be something on the label about how much time to wait to throw down seed after spraying.

You'll probably want to do the overseeding and/or nitrogen blitz this fall to get the grass to thicken up (thicker turf = less weeds). Also consider getting a soil near the end of summer to make sure the soil doesn't need any major amendments for pH, Phos, or Potasium. Soil tests can take a couple of weeks to get results.

Good luck!


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## Dmayotte (May 23, 2021)

I have had good luck for blanket applications by mixing tenacity with speedzone. It seems to kill almost everything I have except the grass! I just started that this year, but have had success!


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Binny09 said:


> Thank you for all the expert advice!
> 
> I have decided to go with the popular vote and try to repair the lawn.
> 
> Sprayed some 2-4,D last evening to front 3rd of the lawn. I will post the results in a couple of weeks.


Isn't it kind of hot to be spraying? Or did it cool down below 85/90F for a bit, finally? I know you guys got well above 100F the past few weeks and broke records.

The other thing is, with Dicamba, there is potential for damage to trees. like anything else, it probably increases the risk as more apps are done. But you may want to read about it online to learn how to minimize any risk. Also, tomato plants are sensitive to some of these herbicides as well, even if they're not right near where you're spraying.


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## Binny09 (May 24, 2020)

So after 4 weeks, I finally mustered some energy and rake the lawn. 2-4,D application is sure showing it's results. I can confidently say 50-60% weeds are gone. I haven't been watering the grass as I feared that would help weeds more than grass. It hasn't rained at all in last month. I plan to overseed in early September.

However the moss problem remains. Even raking through the grass doesn't help to take it off. How should I approach to fix this?

Should I just overseed and wait for grass to fill before fixing the moss or should I try to fix it before overseeding?


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## robjak (Mar 31, 2020)

You should water your lawn. Soil test would be a good idea. That might give you an idea why you have moss. Then kill the moss and rake it out. Then overseed.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Perfect for a cut it short ,de thatch and cut again. Better order that seed you're up in Canada almost time to drop seed


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## zcabe (May 1, 2019)

Typically a fertilizer with a decent % of N & Fe will take care of the moss.


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

In my humble opinion...

If you have the skill, knowledge and resources; a fresh renovation will always be better. 
Even if its possible to fix your current state.

Reason being is uniformity.

We should make a sticky post on this showing pros and cons. Its like the single most asked questions.

@g-man if i type up a draft, will you edit and add to the Cool Season Guide?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

There is already a renovation guide in the cool season guide.


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## Binny09 (May 24, 2020)

Thick n Dense said:


> In my humble opinion...
> 
> If you have the skill, knowledge and resources; a fresh renovation will always be better.
> Even if its possible to fix your current state.
> ...


I was keen on going for fresh install but held back because of the cost and advice of other group members.

This is how I plan to play in next few weeks.

a)Water consistently for 3 weeks. Bring grass back to life.

b)Then mow and dethatch.

c)Add an inch of topsoil and then overseed.

Is there anything else that i should take care of?


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

Well yea, cant swing for the fences before you can hit a single.

Checkout the reno guide for exact steps.

How long have you been at your home ?
Unless you have bare spots, I wouldnt even put down seed at this point if you have what looks like actual turf.

Cause you a.) really wont a round of pre-m to take out weeds for a reno or overswed for at least a year. Just doing prem for a year before reno will greatly reduce weed pressure.

B) it will gain you experience. If you go directly to seed, you loose the where you came from factor . To see before and after.

I said a fresh install is always better because you probably have 50 different types and species of grasses out there. And are probably ancient non-optimized types. Ie darker color, drought and disease resistance, growth dwarf habit etc etc

The truth is that you can get an existing lawn looking good but there will always be different blade sizes and width, different colors, different growth patterns. 
I want my grass to look like a carpet. I got my old lawn looking reallllllllly good, however I wasnt satisified.

The problem is without any experienece moving into a reno could be disastorous. Meaning worse case scenario you waste probably close to 1,000$-1,500$, A 200 hours of time and you still dont have a lawn. On top of that you'll still have to commit more resources to actually fix a failed reno. 
If your sowing kbg, ot takes almost 2 months to get out of pout and sprout so its not for the faint of heart.

The one exception to this is that you go with Sod. 
If you get a fresh install with sod, while not ideal, we can at least coach you through it...

If you go with sod the 2 main pitfalls are a.) not watering enough, b.) killing your lawn incidentally with herbicides.
So you need to be very thourough and know how to use a sprayer and calibrate one.

Heres the challenge, if you can get your lawn weed free except for poa triv by this time next year, youre ready for a reno.


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## Binny09 (May 24, 2020)

Hello Folks!

So my lawn looks much better this spring after the renovation in fall.

It was 70% weeds and 30% grass when i took over the property last May. Now I can confidently say its 80% grass and 20% weeds. See the attached pic.



Before the renovation, I had applied 2,4-D to kill to try and kill the weeds. Had some success with it. At the time of renovation, unfortunately I couldn't get tenacity here in Canada that could have avoided the weeds. There are some sections that have more weeds than the rest of the lawn.





Now should I apply for 2,4-D at this time to fight these weeds? Or let grass thicken a little bit?

I guess my concern is that if apply 2,4-D it might hamper the growth of grass.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

I would apply the 2-4d. It looks like everything is actively growing, but if it is cool still it might be better to wait until temps are between 15c-24c as it won't be as effective if it is cold.. The 2-4d won't hurt the grass when used at label rate in that temp range.


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