# 2019 Renovation Thread



## g-man

It is here. We are almost at the 8 week mark from seed down for most renovations (target Saturday 10Aug2019). I picked 10Aug since it is the best timeframe for Indy, but do adjust to your climate. You want to pick a day that gives you enough time for the grass to grow before winter. If all goes to plan, I have 10-12 weeks before grow slows down. It is also not too early that I should not be dealing with 95F days (lets hope).

The following steps are not all inclusive and other will have a different approach. I tried to avoid using dates since we have a lot of different climates. There is an overseed thread too.


T minus 8 weeks - Seeds are ordered and I'm tracking FedeX for delivery. You want to order at least double the qty you need in case there is an issue (irrigation system broke, downpour, fungus). You want it at hand before round up. Start mowing low and bagging.

T minus 7 weeks - Get the large container of round up concentrate. Practice your calibration of spraying if needed. Do an irrigation audit to test the system and make sure it is all working. Mowing should be at the lowest with scalping (we need it green for round up to work) and bagging. Get a few seeds and test the germination in a moist paper towel.

T minus 6 weeks (the point of no return) - Do any drastic amendment of soils know, per your soil test. Apply round up. Dont think that more is better. Follow the label. We want a slow kill to the roots not a leaf burn. That means you want to use glyphosate. Use a dye or go in two directions to get even coverage.

T minus 5 weeks - It should be brown by now. Start bag mowing at the low settings to pick up the debris. Keep watering daily to promote the weeds to germinate (aka fallowing).

T minus 4 weeks - The ground should be fairly clear and you can start to get it smooth. Address any dips/hills. Keep watering and check your irrigation coverage. The dry/wet soil makes it easy to spot issues now. If you need to get top soil, now is the time, so you can fallow it too. Use a hose/timmer to complement your irrigation if needed. Continue the watering to grow weeds.

T minus 3 weeks - Second round of round up, lets kill the weeds. Weight your seeds and place in a ziplock bag. Label it by zones.

T minus 2 weeks - Start looking at long range forecast. Adjust the seed down (early or later) based on heavy downpours or too hot weather. Do your tenacity calculations and get them on paper (4oz/acre rate). Get any ground cover you want to use (eg. peat moss). Straw is 1% weed, so I avoid it.

T minus 1 week - Start raking and making sure the the top 1/4in of soil is not compacted.

T minus 2 days - apply round up. Get the drink of choice.

Seed down - Do another raking and drop the seed. Rake again, then roll (stomp on it if you have to). *Seed to soil contact is the key*. You want the seeds to be 1/8 to 1/4in below the surface. Apply a phosphorous source if needed and spray tenacity. Drop the covering. Start the watering and the drinking.

Next 18 days - monitor the watering and the green babies. You want the soil moist, but not wet. You do not want to let it dry. Ideal times for me in the past, 8am, 11am, 2pm, 5pm and maybe 9pm. It depends on the temperature, sun/clouds and wind. It is a constant tweaking. After germination happens, I back off from the night watering to avoid fungus. Monitor for fungus and use a fungicide if needed. I think propi is safe and beneficial in new seeds.

Now I start counting from germination and not from seed down:
14 days - Apply a fast nitrogen source (eg. urea, AMS) at a low rate (0.2lb of N/ksqft). 
21 days - look for no germination zones and apply more seeds if needed. Start tweaking the irrigation to go a little longer and less frequent. Again, all based on your weather.
21-28 days - Tenacity and it depends on the weed pressure. 
28 days - another spoon feeding of nitrogen and maybe some milo.
around 28 days - mow at 1.5 to 2in. Yes be careful in the turns but it will be fine. Let the soil dry a hair before mowing. A manual light weight push reel mower helps. Keep mowing at this height for ~4 weeks.
45 days - more nitrogen as needed.
60 days - Apply a PreM (prodiamine).

 Herbicides and PreM after seeding 

Spring - It might look thin. You might think it was a failure. Don't panic and start spoon feeding (0.20 - 0.25lb of N/ksqft) weekly. It is still young and it will need some help.

Lastly, have a backup and a second backup plan. There is a lot of risk/luck in a reno and some times it doesnt play out. I might want a KBG monostand, but I will settle for ryegrass or buying sod instead of mud next year.

Doing a Reno in 2019? Post a link to your journal. Share a brief description of your plans. Ask Reno specific questions.


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## Budstl

Nice write up @g-man.


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## g-man

Ive been waiting for 4 years since moving into this house for this reno. It is a contractor mix in the back and I don't like it.

Seed: Bewitched KBG mono.
Around 3ksqft
10Aug2019 seed down.










g-man 2019 lawn journal


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## Pete1313

Nice write up @g-man!


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## MassHole

g-man said:


> Ive been waiting for 4 years since moving into this house for this reno. It is a contractor mix in the back and I don't like it.
> 
> Seed: Bewitched KBG mono.
> Around 3ksqft
> 10Aug2019 seed down.


Why Bewitched?


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## g-man

@MassHole mainly disease resistance, great color and proven track record. It is also great at low hoc and not super fast growing (less mowing frequency). My other options included award and mazama.


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## he_lives

Here's a link to my renovation that's currently in progress. Any feedback is appreciated.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10638


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## BXMurphy

Nicely done! Simplicity itself.

No aerators, dethatchers, rototillers, or bulldozers.

Success is assured.

B


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## SNOWBOB11

Nice right up. I plan on renovating my small 500 sq ft backyard. I'm going with the same bewitched mono as you are and as what I have in the front yard. Backyard gets a fair amount of shade and stays a bit damp later in the season so for this reason I'm targeting seed down the first few days of August. There will be more updates in my journal later on.

SNOWBOB11's Lawn Journal 2019


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## Grasshopper

Thanks for this G-man, it's great!

Timely post as I'm planning to renovate my neighbor's front yard.

Look forward to following your reno also.


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## g-man

@jcs43920 Check this thread.


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## g-man

@jcs43920 check this thread for reno steps.


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## g-man

@Nehf11 @StarRaider check this thread for reno steps.


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## KoopHawk

@g-man Instead of applying a fast acting N source after germination, would a heavy dose of Milo at seed down serve the same purpose? Thus leading to less traffic on the new babies? Basically you wouldn't need get on the lawn at all until the first mow or Tenacity app depending on weed pressure. I'll be doing a new lawn next spring and anticipating longer lead times since its a spring seeding so I'm looking for ways to keep off of it as long as possible. Mostly I'm hoping next spring is warmer and less wet than it was this year.


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## g-man

Yes you can use milo, but you have less control of when the nitrogen will be available.

A spring Reno is harder.


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## kainpj

@g-man are you going with the higher end recommended seed rate of 4lbs/M? Planning an almost exact renovation in early August as well.


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## g-man

@kainpj i will target 2lb/M the first week and then add to the light areas in week 2.


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## kainpj

g-man said:


> @kainpj i will target 2lb/M the first week and then add to the light areas in week 2.


Thanks g-man, looking forward to seeing your results!


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## wtodd_h

g-man said:


> [*]T minus 2 days - apply round up. Get the drink of choice.


To clarify, @g-man you actually apply Glyphosate 2 days before seeding? That wasn't a mistake in your post?


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## g-man

Not a mistake. You can actually do it the same day. Two days before gives you some less things to do the actual seed day.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Agreed. I spray gly one day before as a final app.

For those with bermuda or zoysia, consider soul stealer. Spray sooner than later as it takes a long time to kill it all. Even then, success isn't guaranteed...

This is what I do. Time it backwards from seed down. 2 months of dead grass unfortunately...
6/29 1st app Soul Stealer
Core aeration if desired
7/20 2nd app Soul Stealer
8/10 3rd app Soul Stealer
8/24 1st app Glyphosate
8/31 2nd app Glyphosate
9/1 Seed


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## g-man

@Bobby23 check this thread for reno information.


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## g-man

@grassmessiah check this thread out.


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## g-man

@blazin check this thread out.


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## 86halibut

super helpful, thanks


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## g-man

Good news for some of us doing a Reno.

https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2019-07-17-late-summer-early-fall-temperature-outlook


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## Avalawn T

Looks like a repeat of last year. It was in the 90s in September here in Nashville for my reno. My backyard might have to wait until October.


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## g-man

@nathan99218 check this thread. I think a kill day of August will be too late for your area.


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## nathan99218

Oh wow! Okay thanks for the heads up! I'm still pretty new to this, I just picked a date and was going to just go for it. I didn't even really give too much thought about the timeframe I have in my climate. haha. Looks like in around next weekend might be the best time to start a kill in my area! guess I'm starting sooner than I thought. haha Thanks @g-man!


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## Joehock57

What's everyone's opinion on working out bumps and ruts during a reno? I have 11k sq feet that in various places my mower bounces around quite a bit. I'm not looking to make it perfectly flat, I'll be cutting tall with a rotary mower. Ideally I would like to avoid topdressing due to the size of my lawn. I had the idea to rent/hire out a tractor with a power rake to till the top few inches. From there I have a drag mat I could take around to flatten. I know the risk of weed pressure that introduces, I was planning on blanket spraying with tenacity during the seeding process.

Curious what people's thoughts are. If I topdressed I wouldn't have to do the whole lawn as it's only certain places that are bumpy, but it would be large sections.

Thanks in advance!


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## g-man

The power rake and dragging or aerate and dragging the cores are both great methods. I think they are better than bringing in an unknown source of soil.


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## Joehock57

Thanks @g-man , I agree.

My original plan was to run a dethatcher in multiple directions over my dead stuff, then bag it all up to clear as much material as possible. Now that I'm thinking about it, if I'm going to turn the top few inches of soil over, do I even have to worry about removing everything? I cut as low as my time master would go already, so it's pretty short (and dead).


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## Avalawn T

I didn't remove any of that stuff last year after the last kill. As long as it's been scalped and not excessive I think your fine. I even used some as cover instead of peatmoss worked great. Just make sure it doesn't interfere with seed to soil contact.


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## Alex1389

What's the best way to clear out the dead grass over a large area? I imagine power raking then dragging everything for a final grade? And how clear should the ground be of the dead grass? Is the foreground in the below pic good enough?


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## Scagfreedom48z+

Alex1389 said:


> What's the best way to clear out the dead grass over a large area? I imagine power raking then dragging everything for a final grade? And how clear should the ground be of the dead grass? Is the foreground in the below pic good enough?


Are you able to run it over with a lawn tractor and bag it?


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## Mrotatori

@Alex1389 not sure how big the area is, but I manaully raked with a leaf rake on my lawn a few days ago. I was able to to pick up a lot of dead grass. I did not see much soil before doing this. I dethatched with my little electric dethatcher a few times before raking. My reno is 4.5k. I am sure there are simpler ways than this process, but I dont want to spend money on renting equipment and I don't have transportation to get it to my house.


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## g-man

@Alex1389 Thats too much. You need to be able to see soil. Remember the key is seed to soil contact.











__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/844692102697009152

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/845051546010337282


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## Alex1389

@g-man I circled the area that I dethatched below. Is that really still too much dead grass in there?

I'll go over everything next weekend in two directions with a power rake regardless.


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## g-man

You said foreground, so I looked at the pile of dead grass in front, not the background.  The center of your circle looks good. If you can see dirt, then the seed can fall in dirt and get sun.


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## ken-n-nancy

That circled area looks great to me; new grass seed should do very well there. Some of the thicker areas do look too thick.

I think I left a little too much on some of the sections of my fall 2018 renovation, but I was patient and it has worked out fine for KBG. Personally, I tend to err on the side of too thick as I've had problems with runoff in previous renovations and the extra dead grass helps reduce runoff of grass seeds and holds the soil in place.


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## Ecubed

When does POA usually start to germinate? I am considering a fall preem this year. I have aerated and overseeded the last 2 years and overall I have a pretty good stand of TTTF. Is it even worth putting seed down to thicken up more? Or would nitrogen blitz paired with prodiamine work well?

I'm in transition zone and it's fairly common to have temps well into the 90s in September. I seeded around labor day the last 2 years and have been successful. However I do have a few patches of weedy grasses( quack mostly) that I'd like to smoke off and then seed. So ideally start roundup 6 weeks from potential seed down on those spots?


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## Alex1389

@g-man yeah sorry, I shouldn't post without my morning coffee. Good to know I'll be okay with that.

@ken-n-nancy, good point with leaving some dead grass behind. When I did my parkway renovation last year, I completely cleared half of it down to the soil but left the other half with a decent amount of dead grass. Both turned out fine, but the area with more dead grass was thicker than the other side. I imagine it helped stop runoff from all the rain.


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## jayteebee

I've watched enough youtube videos to kill someone, but thrilled to find a thread going about fall renovations. Doing a full TTTF reno myself and it's getting down to crunch time. I'm getting the lawn graded and adding a drainage system in 2 weeks so I never (hopefully) have to tear up my nice grass. Loaded up on glyphosate, seed, tenacity, starter fert, RGS, etc this past weekend.

I'm in the transition zone here in Nashville and I'm curious - do you all seed 2 months prior to 1st frost or throw'r down when soil temps hit ~70? I've heard various opinions and trying to time this perfectly... as we all are.


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## Phaseshift

How much does a full reno cost for a yard under 1000 sqft?


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## g-man

It all depends on your goals. Seed and water are the most expensive things


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## FuzzeWuzze

The larger issue with small reno's is really only applicable if you have nothing, then the startup cost can be quite high to do a small area. if you needed a sprayer, glyphosate(you'd have to buy atleast 2-3x what you'd need to do 1k sqft, they dont generally sell 8oz containers), tenacity, maybe some marking blue and surfactant, it can quickly add up and you'll have lots of stuff left over.

Once those are out of the way its really just seed and water costs.


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## g-man

@gergelybg per my other post, check the first post.


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## Babameca

@g-man Got it! Thanks a lot.
M


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## Avalawn T

@jayteebeeI did a full reno last year here in Nashville the Inglewood area. If I were you I would wait until the end of September. My seed went down August 22nd and I fought the heat and humidity for a month and a half reseeded twice. Keep an eye on the temps but we have such mild winters I'd wait.


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## JayBahl

Great thread/Write up. Newb here... hey, anyone know what the difference in height should be from a driveway/sidewalk to the bare dirt level? I need to get serious about getting a level and am unsure if the soil should be level with the concrete or an inch/ 1/2 inch below it. TIA 
Nebraska, KBG blend (contractor mix, sod), 8k ft2.


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## JoeyDonatelli

JayBahl said:


> Great thread/Write up. Newb here... hey, anyone know what the difference in height should be from a driveway/sidewalk to the bare dirt level? I need to get serious about getting a level and am unsure if the soil should be level with the concrete or an inch/ 1/2 inch below it. TIA
> Nebraska, KBG blend (contractor mix, sod), 8k ft2.


I have the same question! Getting ready to do a full reno and was just thinking about this yesterday.


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## CrimsonGlory

I got started on my reno a couple weeks ago, grass is just about completely dead. I was planning on top dressing with sand to get the area as level as possible, then putting down seed with an overseeder and finally covering with peatmoss. Does that sound reasonable?


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## g-man

My seed is down! I'm a week early than my plan. The weather pattern looked too good to not take advantage of it.


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## zeus201

g-man said:


> My seed is down! I'm a week early than my plan. The weather pattern looked too good to not take advantage of it.


What will be your irigation schedule? Still playing around with mine, but currently at 5 cycles at 10 - 15 min watering based on the zone.

Also did you put down at any fungicide? I may spray some Prop today as a preventative and some anecdotal evidence that it helps with seeding....


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## g-man

I'm still adjusting based on the day. 10min at 11pm, then 2min at 11am, 1, 3 and 5pm. I have a camera setup and I'm watching it remotely. If it start to dry up, I will run 2min and see.

No fungicide yet. If I do, it will be foliar once it is going.


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## Alex1389

So I've been using RoundUp QuikPro which contains a small amount of Diquat. I used it on my renovation last year without any issues - even applied it on seed down day and had good germination.

However, that was 500 sq feet and this year's renovation is 12k sq feet. I'm not going to risk the Diquat and will just buy some Ranger Pro or something.

There shouldn't be any ill effects on my germination if my last round up the gly/Diquat was done over two weeks ago, right? I'm targeting this weekend or next weekend for seed down.


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## g-man

I dont like using diquat. The cheap 41% glyphosate works better for a root kill. I dont remember if diquat has a long residual. @Greendoc will know.


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## JayBahl

JoeyDonatelli said:


> JayBahl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great thread/Write up. Newb here... hey, anyone know what the difference in height should be from a driveway/sidewalk to the bare dirt level? I need to get serious about getting a level and am unsure if the soil should be level with the concrete or an inch/ 1/2 inch below it. TIA
> Nebraska, KBG blend (contractor mix, sod), 8k ft2.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the same question! Getting ready to do a full reno and was just thinking about this yesterday.
Click to expand...

@JoeyDonatelli We didn't get an answer so I am going to go LEVEL with the concrete. Noticed in a Ryan Knorr vid that his was about 1/8 - 1/4" above the concrete so that will be my margin of error.


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## KoopHawk

JayBahl said:


> JoeyDonatelli said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JayBahl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great thread/Write up. Newb here... hey, anyone know what the difference in height should be from a driveway/sidewalk to the bare dirt level? I need to get serious about getting a level and am unsure if the soil should be level with the concrete or an inch/ 1/2 inch below it. TIA
> Nebraska, KBG blend (contractor mix, sod), 8k ft2.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the same question! Getting ready to do a full reno and was just thinking about this yesterday.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @JoeyDonatelli We didn't get an answer so I am going to go LEVEL with the concrete. Noticed in a Ryan Knorr vid that his was about 1/8 - 1/4" above the concrete so that will be my margin of error.
Click to expand...

As the grass grows your soil will expand with the root growth. I would leave it slightly under the concrete. Eventually it will rise above your concrete.


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## g-man

It is a very personal choice. If it is above the concrete, then it will show the soil as more roots grow. If is below the concrete, then you could scalp if the wheels are in the concrete when you mow or you could damage a reel (if reel mowing). Above concrete also has the challenge of runoff if you get a rain during the reno.


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## Scagfreedom48z+

g-man said:


> I dont like using diquat. The cheap 41% glyphosate works better for a root kill. I dont remember if diquat has a long residual. @Greendoc will know.


I'm using the same cheap glypho. Have you noticed that it makes a significant difference with its effectiveness,if the turf gets watered within the 24 hours?

It's rain fast within 2-4 hours according to the directions


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## jha4aamu

anyone have any experience w/ hydrocover triple start? https://www.siteone.com/p/336327. i had planned on using the covergrow seed aide as a tackifier for my reno but its unavailable anywhere near me.


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## Ecubed

I have a pretty darn good stand of TTTF(finally) that I have been mowing at 4 inches. I hear that Fescue needs to be overseeded every year? Any thoughts? If so, do I always need to aerate when I over seed?

What about cutting lower for the overseed? My yard is direct sun 8+ hours so I have to keep it at 4" or it absolutely cooks. I just think if it was seeded with current grass at 4 inches, the seed wouldn't make it down to the dirt.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Ecubed said:


> I have a pretty darn good stand of TTTF(finally) that I have been mowing at 4 inches. I hear that Fescue needs to be overseeded every year? Any thoughts? If so, do I always need to aerate when I over seed?
> 
> What about cutting lower for the overseed? My yard is direct sun 8+ hours so I have to keep it at 4" or it absolutely cooks. I just think if it was seeded with current grass at 4 inches, the seed wouldn't make it down to the dirt.


If it is thick enough for your liking, you don't need to seed. It depends on your maintenance, weather, and disease. Some of it might die off each year and if it's too thin, then definitely overseed. Fescue doesn't spread so if a plant dies, you'll have a hole for other plants to fill in or weeds if your density is low.

I like to use this process during my overseed. Mow to about 1.5" and bag it. Dethatch or verticut and mow again to bag it. Seed and roll it or if you are sure you don't have storms coming for a week, then cover with peat moss and skip the rolling. Water lightly 4 times a day to keep moist. It'll germinate usually in about 5-7 days. In one more week, put out fert to start pushing it. Maintain at 2" until next summer and bring it up to 4" or so in the heat.


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## social port

Ecubed said:


> I have a pretty darn good stand of TTTF(finally) that I have been mowing at 4 inches. I hear that Fescue needs to be overseeded every year? Any thoughts? If so, do I always need to aerate when I over seed?
> 
> What about cutting lower for the overseed? My yard is direct sun 8+ hours so I have to keep it at 4" or it absolutely cooks. I just think if it was seeded with current grass at 4 inches, the seed wouldn't make it down to the dirt.


Many people do need to overseed TTTF after the summer because the season can really take its toll even on really strong stands. Disease, heat, water, and insects can leave fescue damaged and thinned out. However, overseeding isn't necessary if you are happy with the density of your stand.
So, I suggest giving it a little more time and then assessing where your lawn is at. If it is not thin, then you may not need to overseed. If it is thin, then overseeding is the way to repair it. TTTF doesn't spread like bluegrass.

You do not always need to aerate when overseeding. Aerate if your soil is compacted. If not, I don't think it is necessary (though you certainly can). For obtaining seed-to-soil contact, running a dethatcher a little low is a nice option. Alternatively, if you could simply rake the top layer of soil to loosen it a bit, that would work, too. You want your seed to be able to find a nice home in the soil. Using a roller after seeding is also a good idea.

Cutting low? Yes, that is something you should try to do. If you wait until the heat breaks, your TTTF should tolerate the lower HOC. TTTF will be in a stage of vigorous growth, so recovery is much easier. If you just bring it down to 3, that would likely give you a better outcome than seeding with HOC at 4, at least in theory.

I recommend that you read the excellent cool season overseed guide for everything you need to know.

Edited to add: :lol: SJL quick on the trigger.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

@social port  You made many good points though! Stuff I missed. Nice post.


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## truck3rcl0ck

Avalawn T said:


> @jayteebeeI did a full reno last year here in Nashville the Inglewood area. If I were you I would wait until the end of September. My seed went down August 22nd and I fought the heat and humidity for a month and a half reseeded twice. Keep an eye on the temps but we have such mild winters I'd wait.


Looking at the average soil temps over the last 5 years it looks like we hit the 70 degree mark in the last week of September so that is when I plan to seed. I plan to begin the glyphosate apps around the first week of September. That sound like a good plan?


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## Babameca

Based on @g-man recommendation I fast forwarded my reno. Here is what was done so far
Aug-2 Round up app #1
Aug-6 Roundup #2
The below are pictures as follows: lawn before app, lawn 3 days after app #1 and aerated, lawn today, 1 week after app 1 and 2.5 days after app 2.







Sun exposure dramatically varies the effect of the app.
Tomorrow I will spot hit those areas.
To follow:
Aug-11, scalp, dethatch and clean all
Aug-12 topsoil levelling, seed, tenacity, peat moss.
That moves my original plan by a week ahead. I had to compromise with:
Roundup waiting time
Roundup after topsoil
Forecast is clear for next 7 days so I went for it.
I am leaving on 12th for 5 days vacation and I thinkI won't be able to fully enjoy hoping my DYI above ground irrigation will do its job.
Wish me good luck,
M


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## Alex1389

Brought in some new dirt for my Reno. On the left, new dirt. Right = existing. Notice how many weeds came along with the new dirt vs virtually nothing on my existing area. The importance of fallowing...


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## Jconnelly6b

Alex1389 said:


> Brought in some new dirt for my Reno. On the left, new dirt. Right = existing. Notice how many weeds came along with the new dirt vs virtually nothing on my existing area. The importance of fallowing...


Say it louder for the people in the back!!


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## JayBahl

Good info. Hadn't thought about expansion. So I think I will then go about 1/4 - 1/2" below concrete level. Thanks @KoopHawk & @g-man


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## ThickAndGreen

Has anyone mixed tenacity and glyphosate for use at seedown? If so did you use a surfactant? Obviously you want to use it so the glyphosate but would it have any affect on the absorption of the tenacity in the soil?


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## g-man

Gly has a surfactant in it so the tenacity will not be soil.


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## 86halibut

Alex1389 said:


> Brought in some new dirt for my Reno. On the left, new dirt. Right = existing. Notice how many weeds came along with the new dirt vs virtually nothing on my existing area. The importance of fallowing...


I had similar results after dropping a couple bags of topsoil from a garden center. After a couple days of watering the weeds started popping right up, looked just like your pic.


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## ThickAndGreen

g-man said:


> Gly has a surfactant in it so the tenacity will not be soil.


Are you saying the surfactant from the glyphosate will prevent the tenacity from being absorbed into the soil?


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## g-man

That's was poorly worded.

The glyphosate has a surfactant in it. The tenacity will be applied with whatever the glyphosate has. I don't know if it will be compatible. The areas with leaves/dead thatch might get the tenacity to stick to it. The areas with bare soil will get the tenacity plus whatever the gly used.


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## Allan-00

Anybody ever use an iPhone/Android app for a timelapse-like video of your reno and new lawn growing? I was planning on just taking random pictures here and there but just realized there might be a way to capture it more effectively. Just a thought.


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## Alex1389

Allan-00 said:


> Anybody ever use an iPhone/Android app for a timelapse-like video of your reno and new lawn growing? I was planning on just taking random pictures here and there but just realized there might be a way to capture it more effectively. Just a thought.


Some contractors I follow on IG use an app called Phaze for before and after of their projects. Looks pretty cool. $19.99/month though after free trial...


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## Killsocket

It is written that: 
14 days - Apply a fast nitrogen source (eg. urea, AMS) at a low rate (0.2lb of N/ksqft).

Could this be granular? Could it be spraying something like Greene Punch (if my math is right 12oz/1000 is .17N/1000) or super light with Greene Effect (.04 N/1000 I think - normal application)? I have a large spot I am basically seeding from scratch almost like a practice for next season (killed a large section of quack, undesirable grass). I have both and curious on opinions if one is better than another? I am on day 7 post-germination, would like to try something on day 14.


----------



## g-man

Yes granular and I don't know about the green products. Be careful from too much iron too.


----------



## Alex1389

@g-man can urea be dissolved in water and sprayed on baby grass or is it too harsh? I can do granular urea but I feel liquid would get better coverage.

Also, anyone have luck with cleaning out pump sprayers after using glyphosate in them? Am I asking for trouble? Last round of gly went down earlier today. 😎


----------



## pennstater2005

@Alex1389 I'll triple rinse then spray a quarter tank of water just to get everything out of the hose as well.


----------



## Alex1389

pennstater2005 said:


> @Alex1389 I'll triple rinse then spray a quarter tank of water just to get everything out of the hose as well.


That's it? No need for dish soap or anything?


----------



## pennstater2005

Alex1389 said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Alex1389 I'll triple rinse then spray a quarter tank of water just to get everything out of the hose as well.
> 
> 
> 
> That's it? No need for dish soap or anything?
Click to expand...

Yep. I've never had any issues. At least none that I know of.


----------



## pennstater2005

Anything that might be in there would be so diluted at that point anyway it wouldn't matter.


----------



## Alex1389

Thanks @pennstater2005!


----------



## g-man

@Alex1389 I think you can, but spray and irrigate immediately.


----------



## Alex1389

g-man said:


> @Alex1389 I think you can, but spray and irrigate immediately.


Thanks! Maybe I'll try an area just to be on the safe side.


----------



## g-man

I'm hoping most reno plans are going good this year. We had a few strong storms in the Midwest and the risk for storms stays until Wednesday. I'm glad I did seeds one week earlier than I originally planned for. The root development has help.

My advise if you still have to drop your seed, wait until Wednesday. Also, make sure you have a backup plan. Extra seeds? Don't go into a heavy seed rate to save some for next week.


----------



## Babameca

g-man said:


> I'm hoping most reno plans are going good this year. We had a few strong storms in the Midwest and the risk for storms stays until Wednesday. I'm glad I did seeds one week earlier than I originally planned for. The root development has help.
> 
> My advise if you still have to drop your seed, wait until Wednesday. Also, make sure you have a backup plan. Extra seeds? Don't go into a heavy seed rate to save some for next week.


Had some washout and sprinkler issue. It pushed most seed and peat in one place. Any advise if I have to disturb this or let it be. It will grow thicker and I am afraid of over crowding later on
Thanks


----------



## Killsocket

Not a reno, but a test plot to test out TTTF in MN. I really like the look and benefits of TTTF. Found this thread to be helpful in preparations for next year and this smaller project, although I didn't do every step, has been fun. If TTTF doesn't work (looking for significant winter kill) or I am not satisfied, instead of a TTTF reno I will do a KBG reno next year. I figure this is also a way to gain experience on a smaller scale.

Yes, the backyard is horrible, I let it go. Should come back a bit with about 2" of rain this week I got. 
August 4 was seed day. 
Day 9 post seedlings.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Doing a min reno of the kids play area... Killed everything of with roundup 4 weeks ago.. Yesterday got some wood chips, and a yard or soil that I spread and levelled. Today I seeded with ..... ahhhh. Scott's coated 75% kbg 25% prg (had a couple of 3lb bags of this).. Sorayed Tenacity and then covered with peat moss.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Doing a min reno of the kids play area... Killed everything of with roundup 4 weeks ago.. Yesterday got some wood chips, and a yard or soil that I spread and levelled. Today I seeded with ..... ahhhh. Scott's coated 75% kbg 25% prg (had a couple of 3lb bags of this).. Sprayed Tenacity and then covered with peat moss.

Going to get a manual reel mower to cut this area low...


----------



## social port

@Stuofsci02, oh sweet! That looks great. Reel-mowed playground. Love that idea. I hope the wood chips stay in place. Did you put any lining under the wood chips?


----------



## Stuofsci02

social port said:


> @Stuofsci02, oh sweet! That looks great. Reel-mowed playground. Love that idea. I hope the wood chips stay in place. Did you put any lining under the wood chips?


Agreed on hoping the wood chips stay in place. I did not put any lining under the chips. I will probably need to sweep the wood chips before I reel mow...


----------



## Pete1313

Stuofsci02 said:


> Doing a min reno of the kids play area... Killed everything of with roundup 4 weeks ago.. Yesterday got some wood chips, and a yard or soil that I spread and levelled. Today I seeded with ..... ahhhh. Scott's coated 75% kbg 25% prg (had a couple of 3lb bags of this).. Sprayed Tenacity and then covered with peat moss.
> 
> Going to get a manual reel mower to cut this area low...


That is a cool idea! :thumbsup:


----------



## Stuofsci02

I have germination at 4 days...


----------



## Chris LI

@Stuofsci02 
That's great "out of the box thinking", for working "in the box". Nice job! I look forward to following your reno. The contrast between your reel mowed playground area and surrounding turf, should be interesting...kinda like a green/collar/fairway.


----------



## zeus201

Nearing day 21 and grass seems getting past pouting stage and starting to grow. Had a couple wash-outs during this time which sucked, especially in the hell strip. Weed pressure has been pretty minimal and been carefully walking on it and hand pulling the invaders. Starting to think about when to do the first cut and kicking myself for not ordering a solid front roller for either greens mower.

Tonight re-seeded thin areas, spread more Slopemaster "stuff", rolled with greens mower and laid down some peat moss as well for good measure. If hell strip continues to be exactly that, may drop some Karma and Fiesta PRG to get some coverage going into late fall and winter.


----------



## g-man

@zeus201 we still have time for kbg to do it thing. No need for prg yet.

Last year I used the grooved roller. I let the area dry up a bit, set the mower to the slowest travel speed and did the turns outside the reno.

The hardest thing is to pick the hoc for the first mow. 1in or 1.25in?


----------



## zeus201

g-man said:


> @zeus201 we still have time for kbg to do it thing. No need for prg yet.
> 
> Last year I used the grooved roller. I let the area dry up a bit, set the mower to the slowest travel speed and did the turns outside the reno.
> 
> The hardest thing is to pick the hoc for the first mow. 1in or 1.25in?


Probably right on the PRG, just annoyed with that area and how painful it is to grow KBG. Right now I am leaning towards 1.0" HOC and leaving it there till end of the season.


----------



## ninja[Sloth]

So I'm running dangerously behind schedule, it would appear the remnants of quite a bit of fine fescue like to lay down tight to the surface. It is not crispy enough for the mower and I am wondering what my alternatives are.

It was slightly damp so I raked it one direction. The idea I had was that prior to seeding I would just rake it the other direction with a fan rake to get it to stand straight up (exposing the soil more). The only other options I could think of were to rent a power rake and set the depth to "mother-in-law" or walk out there with a torch and burn things which wouldn't make friends with the fire chief.

I'm only doing about 3600 square feet because that's what my irrigation supports. More labor intensive solutions are ok, but time intensive isn't.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Chris LI said:


> @Stuofsci02
> That's great "out of the box thinking", for working "in the box". Nice job! I look forward to following your reno. The contrast between your reel mowed playground area and surrounding turf, should be interesting...kinda like a green/collar/fairway.


Yes... I thought it might be fun for the kids and give me a good test plot


----------



## aaronchristopherbake

ninja[Sloth said:


> " post_id=206178 time=1566574947 user_id=2271]
> The only other options I could think of were to rent a power rake and set the depth to "mother-in-law" or walk out there with a torch and burn things which wouldn't make friends with the fire chief.
> 
> I'm only doing about 3600 square feet because that's what my irrigation supports. More labor intensive solutions are ok, but time intensive isn't.


I used this product with good results. You have to set it low (in fact, I rigged the mower to be lower than it's lowest setting) to barely scrape the surface. Also, buy extra spring tines because they will break prematurely running it to touch the ground.

Maxpower 330100 16" Universal... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009XCNDA?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share


----------



## Babameca

11 days after seeding, had to repair few bold spots, mostly due to sprinkler pattern being too aggressive. I run the Melnor spikes. You can switch between different nozlzles on the fly, but only one was giving me close to the head coverage. I have NO head to head coverage. That though, created a heavy stream on the outer 'ring' but very little water in the middle. I returned to a 'fan' nozzle and modified (slicing slightly down the nozzle to create a close mist).
Lost my patience and applied a Kelp/Humic/Micros cocktails and 10-25-10 starter at 0.25N/M.
Here are some pictures. PRG is all on, KBG starts emerging. Anything I am missing? Or overdid...


----------



## Butter

After looking through this thread and especially members journals I just want to say that the level of detail most members put into preparation on renovations is amazing!


----------



## Alias-Doe

Finally dropped my seed this evening . My only concern at the moment is that I still see seed on the surface of the soil . I racked before seeding and rolled afterwards but not really buried. Would that be a problem ? I put a thin layer of peat moss which covered it up for now . Should I rack it in more tomorrow ?


----------



## aaronchristopherbake

@g-man thanks so much for this thread, I've consulted it so man times over the last several weeks.

I have T-Nex and am interested in using it to encourage lateral growth. The cool season PGR thread started by @chrismar suggests you can apply it after the second mow - but not sure if that is second mow of the renovation or the second mow the Spring following the renovation. Anybody using PGR the Fall of the renovation (now or soon) to encourage lateral growth or is that a bad idea?


----------



## Joehock57

So...sprayed tenacity at seed down, has anyone ever seen these results? I am assuming it's tenacity but it doesn't seem to be growing out?



Also...is anyone overseeding their Reno? When are you making the call to do so? I'm 12 days into seeding- GCI TF


----------



## kds

What's the consensus of how many weeks before the first freeze should overseeding happen for TTTF?

I still have a few outstanding items left that I should be doing before overseeding but I'm worried I'm running out of time already.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

@Babameca Looking good!

@Joehock57 Most of it looks good. I would consider overseeding the lower right area unless it is just growing slower. I think I see some green in there. Keep in mind, each plant can get a few inches wide so while it might thin now, once it tillers and matures, it'll be a lot thicker.

@kds For TTTF, I've seeded 2 weeks before freeze. Sure, the top gets frozen dew but the soil isn't frozen and it still grows. It'll grow until soil temps get to the low 50's. Doesn't seem to do much after that. I would also hit it with some straight AMS to push it a little at that point. I'm not sure how cold it gets where you are but that could determine if it survives. It gets to the mid teens here usually but not much colder.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Alias-Doe said:


> Finally dropped my seed this evening . My only concern at the moment is that I still see seed on the surface of the soil . I racked before seeding and rolled afterwards but not really buried. Would that be a problem ? I put a thin layer of peat moss which covered it up for now . Should I rack it in more tomorrow ?


I see you list your grass as bermuda. I'm assuming you overseeded rye or some type of cool season grass?

It doesn't have to be buried but you'll have better germination rates if it is buried in the top 1/4 to 1/2" or you cover it with peat moss. If you leave it exposed, it can dry faster so that lowers the germ rate. It's also harder to keep moist if its exposed. In my experience, if you rake the soil to remove old stuff so the soil surface is exposed, then you put the seed down and leave it on top but cover with peat moss, it germinates in the shortest amount of time. It may only be 1-2 days quicker but each day counts. The one drawback is if it rains more than a light rain or mist. It'll wash away... If you have 7 days without rain, and you are watering, it's perfect as you can control it. Then, the second you get 1 thunderstorm, it's over...

To prevent seed loss in a heavy rain, I would rake the soil until the top 1/4" is loose and crumbly. You could use a verticutter set at the lowest setting or for a big area, a box rake. Then, spread seed and use the back of the rake to drag the surface. The seed will disappear into the top layer. Use a heavy roller to flatten the surface. With a smooth and flat surface, rain will just sheet off and not carry the seed away. I would cover with peat moss unless you know a storm is coming. Peat moss is light and just floats away in rain. Peat moss is optional but it seems to speed up germ time.


----------



## kds

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> I would also hit it with some straight AMS to push it a little at that point.


Thanks. The first frost is usually around the 2nd week in October.

What is AMS?


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

kds said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would also hit it with some straight AMS to push it a little at that point.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. The first frost is usually around the 2nd week in October.
> 
> What is AMS?
Click to expand...

Ammonium Sulfate. 21-0-0 fertilizer.

It'll grow well past first frost. Probably will slow down mid Nov.


----------



## Alex1389

What are some signs of fungus to look out for in a recently renovated lawn? Is it advantageous to spray fungicide regardless of the presence of fungal issues?

I'm finding this in a lot of spots throughout the lawn this morning, so I'm thinking an Azoxy app is needed.


----------



## ksturfguy

Hard to tell but might just be spider webs.


----------



## Alex1389

ksturfguy said:


> Hard to tell but might just be spider webs.


They're everywhere. Not sure.

I imagine there's no harm in a fungicide app regardless?


----------



## zeus201

Alex1389 said:


> ksturfguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to tell but might just be spider webs.
> 
> 
> 
> They're everywhere. Not sure.
> 
> I imagine there's no harm in a fungicide app regardless?
Click to expand...

I had the same thing going on yesterday. Was not overly shocked as we have several days of overcast skies and decent humidity. Regardless, didn't want to chance it and sprayed propiconazole @ 1 oz/m.

As a side benefit, label says it helps with root establishment and top growth at the 2 to 3 leaf stage....


----------



## Richkm20

Hey guys quick question. I've got some 16-32-3 starter fertilizer and am wondering what rate I should put it down at seed down. Thanks for the help!


----------



## ksturfguy

Richkm20 said:


> Hey guys quick question. I've got some 16-32-3 starter fertilizer and am wondering what rate I should put it down at seed down. Thanks for the help!


The bag should have a recommended rate so see what the label says. But 3 pounds per will get ya almost 1/2 lb of N and 4 LBS per will get ya .64 LBs of N.


----------



## Alias-Doe

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Alias-Doe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Finally dropped my seed this evening . My only concern at the moment is that I still see seed on the surface of the soil . I racked before seeding and rolled afterwards but not really buried. Would that be a problem ? I put a thin layer of peat moss which covered it up for now . Should I rack it in more tomorrow ?
> 
> 
> 
> I see you list your grass as bermuda. I'm assuming you overseeded rye or some type of cool season grass?
> 
> It doesn't have to be buried but you'll have better germination rates if it is buried in the top 1/4 to 1/2" or you cover it with peat moss. If you leave it exposed, it can dry faster so that lowers the germ rate. It's also harder to keep moist if its exposed. In my experience, if you rake the soil to remove old stuff so the soil surface is exposed, then you put the seed down and leave it on top but cover with peat moss, it germinates in the shortest amount of time. It may only be 1-2 days quicker but each day counts. The one drawback is if it rains more than a light rain or mist. It'll wash away... If you have 7 days without rain, and you are watering, it's perfect as you can control it. Then, the second you get 1 thunderstorm, it's over...
> 
> To prevent seed loss in a heavy rain, I would rake the soil until the top 1/4" is loose and crumbly. You could use a verticutter set at the lowest setting or for a big area, a box rake. Then, spread seed and use the back of the rake to drag the surface. The seed will disappear into the top layer. Use a heavy roller to flatten the surface. With a smooth and flat surface, rain will just sheet off and not carry the seed away. I would cover with peat moss unless you know a storm is coming. Peat moss is light and just floats away in rain. Peat moss is optional but it seems to speed up germ time.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the detailed response. I had a mix of Common Bermuda ( the devil ) + fine fescue + Rye . I've been trying to kill the Bermuda for a long time and I think I finally killed 80% of it at least. I seeded with KBG that purchased locally . I rolled it and covered it with peat moss . I guess all I can do at this point ( 3 days after seeding) is wait and see what happens. If it doesn't work out I'll try again next fall .


----------



## Babameca

First push reel mow at day 17 of my KBG/PRG reno. Still waiting for the weak spots to pick up. Spoon feed at 0.25N/M of 10-25-10 starter fert weekly now (for 3 weeks and then straight urea at same rate)


----------



## Stuofsci02

Looks good Babameca... that is going to come in strong

I am at dar 11 on my playground reno but I have been away on vacation for the last 6 so I have been watching on the security camera hoping to see things...

Finally starting to see some green I think 👍 or am I fooling myself..


----------



## Babameca

@Stuofsci02 I can see the green hue for sure! Nice...


----------



## Bug pumper

First stripes today on my reno. Seed down was July 28. Hoping to put down first light round of FAS tonight to kick the colour up a bit. Couldn't be happier with the way the Seed Superstore SS1002 seed came in.


----------



## Babameca

@Bug pumper Awesome looking lawn! For when going down to 1/2 .


----------



## Baretta

Very nice! Had some perfect temps for late July seeding, not too hot this summer.


----------



## Bug pumper

@Babameca @Baretta thanks, not used to the whole fall seeding thing, and was anxious to get going, worried I wouldn't have time. We Got lucky with the weather this year for sure.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Just got back from vacation... the area in question is not irrigated so it has only been hand watered by my brother and father in law twice per day while I was away... results are good for 13 days.. I added some more seed this afternoon to thin areas..


----------



## Alias-Doe

Does tenacity at 2 weeks after seed down ( as some recommend ) bleach my new KBG grass babies ? I got a few weeds popping up so that tenacity is needed .


----------



## gm560

Alias-Doe said:


> Does tenacity at 2 weeks after seed down ( as some recommend ) bleach my new KBG grass babies ? I got a few weeds popping up so that tenacity is needed .


2 weeks seems early for tenacity. I have always done at seed down and then ~45 days later. Yes it can bleach the KBG.


----------



## aaronchristopherbake

Alias-Doe said:


> Does tenacity at 2 weeks after seed down ( as some recommend ) bleach my new KBG grass babies ? I got a few weeds popping up so that tenacity is needed .


Label says wait two mows or 4 weeks after germination (whichever is later).


----------



## g-man

I wait the 4 weeks after germination. The 2 mows are kinda subjective.

I'm in week 3 on my reno. I walk the area once a day and hand pull any weed I see. I might not need any more tenacity.


----------



## Alias-Doe

g-man said:


> I wait the 4 weeks after germination. The 2 mows are kinda subjective.
> 
> I'm in week 3 on my reno. I walk the area once a day and hand pull any weed I see. I might not need any more tenacity.


I think I'm skip the 2nd app and see what happens with the weeds after I hand pulling . Did you put any fertilizer down after germination ?


----------



## g-man

At ~2 weeks post germination. Once I see tillers I feed it.


----------



## Babameca

@g-man what is tour regiment 2 weeks in... till you go to 'regular' maintenance.


----------



## g-man

I follow the guidelines in the first post on this thread. If it looks like it is taking off, I go sooner, otherwise wait.


----------



## TheSwede

g-man said:


> At ~2 weeks post germination. Once I see tillers I feed it.


I'm sub 2-weeks in post, and see tillers in combination with barley germinated seeds. Should I start spoon feeding or should I wait? My gut feeling is to start spoon feeding Urea now...


----------



## Alias-Doe

TheSwede said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> At ~2 weeks post germination. Once I see tillers I feed it.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sub 2-weeks in post, and see tillers in combination with barley germinated seeds. Should I start spoon feeding or should I wait? My gut feeling is to start spoon feeding Urea now...
Click to expand...

I'm on the same boat as you maybe a little behind . I'm waiting for my soil test results from University of Delaware to help me decide which and how much fertilizer to use . The cheap Lowe's soil kits is showing low levels of N , P , K with neutral pH levels .


----------



## g-man

@TheSwede if you have barely germinated, then avoid those areas.


----------



## Priapus

I did a reno with TTTF from seed superstore, and so far it's doing good. I pretty much followed this guide to the letter, but have a few questions:

One of the reasons I did the Reno was that the yard is overrun with wild violets. I did three sequences of roundup, and two of Tenacity, and it seems like they survived somehow. I have read that fall is the only real time you can really attack violets, but my lawn might be too new to do this yet. I had seed down on 8/3 and am in zone 6B. Is there anything I can do? I don't want to wait a year and let it get overrun. If I can spray, what would be best?

I also bought some Kelp4Less Extreme blend. Is there any reason to not put this down at this stage?

Finally, my tall fescue seems really floppy when you walk on it. Is this just me worrying over nothing at this stage? I did do a spoon feed of urea and a standard dose of milo.

Thank you for any advice!


----------



## Mudokon

Seattle renovation for the lawn!

Cut it down to 2 inches, dethatched, cleaned it up, patched with organic compost on bare spots and seeded then did overseeding all over and some starter fertilizer as well, watering in morning and evening.

will do a round of milorganite in October and now when grass has grown in more:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/p7AWDrXSoKeiRzrdA


----------



## Deke

Mazama mono after 9 days. Took longer than the test pot had me worried.


----------



## Deke

Mazama mono after 9 days. Took longer than the test pot had me worried.


----------



## g-man

@Priapus you can tackle it in spring or later this year. At around 60 days, use triclopyr.

Yes it stays floppy until it matures. Purdue recommends keeping it at 2in hoc for TTTF until it is more mature.


----------



## NJ-lawn

Day 13 of my KBG Reno, I'm happy with the coverage. So far it doesn't look like many bare spots that would need more seed.

I cut the frequency of watering from 4x/day to 3x/day.


----------



## g-man

@NJ-lawn I don't think you need more seed. That's really good coverage. You should be close to the pouting phase.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Here is day 21 of my playground reno. First cut at 1" with my Fiskars 18" push reel mower...


----------



## g-man

@Captquin check the first post.


----------



## Jtgorman75

I applied Scott's starter with Mesotrione when seeds went down. I now have a bunch of nutsedge sprouting up here and there and few other weeds.. When it is safe to address this? I do have enough of the same Scotts starter left over for another application... Drop it?

Seeds went down 25 days ago..


----------



## Rswarren14

Hey y'all. I picked 31 Aug since it is the best time-frame for Maryland(IMO) to kick off the lawn reno. For MD this gives enough time for the grass to grow before winter or first frost.

Aug 3rd
Glyposhate took 2 apps over the month of August. I spot sprayed areas that were not dying a few days leading up to reno day.

AUG 31st
After a lot of leveling work... I seeded about 15lbs of a 20 pound bag of a 50/50 (ss1100 & perennial rye grass) from seedsuperstore. I put down X-Start at 3lbs/1000 followed by the reno blacket spray tenacity app after seed and fert went down. Topped it all off with peat moss and let the the watering in finish the job. I started seeing the Rye germination in about 3 days.

I will post update pictures with progress and additional applications/overseedings. Wish me luck!!! :thumbup:


----------



## g-man

@Jtgorman75 check the label. It likely says 30day post Germination.


----------



## NJ-lawn

Just pulled weeds out of Reno. Day 18.....


That section Tenacity at seed down. Brought in top soil to level things out n compost as top dressing.

Seeded another section , no Tenacity. No top soil or compost. Just top dress with peat moss. Maybe a handful of weeds.

I realize weed pressure when you bring in top soil but I thought Tenacity would have done a better job.

4oz/acre


----------



## Joehock57

First Reno here, looking for some insight. I seeded 30 days ago. Currently I have patches of really solid growth in spots of the yard but the majority of it is thin and still very short. It's GCI TTTF.

Could this be a water issue? I also fertilized about a week ago...just not sure why it would be so thin and short after a month of grow. Wondering if I should overseed before it gets too late in the season.

Thanks in advance for the advice.


----------



## g-man

@Joehock57 I think those thin areas will need more seed and water since this is a TTTF lawn.


----------



## ksturfguy

Yeah my best guess is lack of water. TTTF usually looks a lot better then that 30 days in. Hopefully now that you have fertilized and with a little more seed it will thicken up before winter.


----------



## Alias-Doe

"14 days - Apply a fast nitrogen source (eg. urea, AMS) at a low rate (0.2lb of N/ksqft)"

@g-man What's the best way to spread such a small amount over 1000sq ft ? I have a hand held spreader and a scotts edge guard . Im planning to do my first fertilizer/urea application either tomorrow or Monday .


----------



## g-man

I use a Scott wizz spreader. You can also dissolve in water, spray it and water it in immediately.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Day 27 of playground reno. Cut at 1" with push reel... had 10 kids over for bday party and they played on it for several hours. No ill effects. I put down my second app of 16-16-16 afterwards and some more seed in the bare spots.


----------



## NJ-lawn

Stuofsci02 said:


> Day 27 of playground reno. Cut at 1" with push reel... had 10 kids over for bday party and they played on it for several hours. No ill effects. I put down my second app of 16-16-16 afterwards and some more seed in the bare spots.


Nice man


----------



## Stuofsci02

NJ-lawn said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Day 27 of playground reno. Cut at 1" with push reel... had 10 kids over for bday party and they played on it for several hours. No ill effects. I put down my second app of 16-16-16 afterwards and some more seed in the bare spots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice man
Click to expand...

Thanks.. it coming along pretty good... cut it twice already..


----------



## Babameca

First edge (poor) job on the new lawn...


----------



## ksturfguy

Stuofsci02 said:


> Day 27 of playground reno. Cut at 1" with push reel... had 10 kids over for bday party and they played on it for several hours. No ill effects. I put down my second app of 16-16-16 afterwards and some more seed in the bare spots.


Looking good and your lawn around the play area is A+ material. Nice work.


----------



## Stuofsci02

ksturfguy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Day 27 of playground reno. Cut at 1" with push reel... had 10 kids over for bday party and they played on it for several hours. No ill effects. I put down my second app of 16-16-16 afterwards and some more seed in the bare spots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking good and your lawn around the play area is A+ material. Nice work.
Click to expand...

Thanks... It is coming along... I appreciate the comment!


----------



## MDJoe

A lot of people say not to till, and I can understand the reasoning. But what about those of us with extremely acidic soil? My native pH is 5 or under.

I know from my experience vegetable gardening that throwing lime on the surface only affects the pH about an inch down.


----------



## Babameca

@MDJoe @Ware You may have a better chance for an answer in the soil fertility forum.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

MDJoe said:


> A lot of people say not to till, and I can understand the reasoning. But what about those of us with extremely acidic soil? My native pH is 5 or under.
> 
> I know from my experience vegetable gardening that throwing lime on the surface only affects the pH about an inch down.


If you want your lime deeper, I would do a core aeration first and then spread lime. Get a soil test so they can tell you how much lime you need. It might be 110 lbs/M and if so, aerate and put out 50 lbs/M and repeat in 6 months. You'll get all your lime out in a year or two and it won't all be on the surface. Be sure to do the soil test so you know if you need dolomitic or calcitic lime and the exact quantity. Oh, and don't use soil savvy since they don't tell you how much lime you need. I wouldn't till. Once you have all your lime out, retest in the next spring to see if you need more. I've needed to apply more before but it was a much lower quantity, like 30 lbs/M. Yes, MD soils are acidic but it's an easy correction.


----------



## NJ-lawn

Day 22.... first cut and .25 lb/1M of urea. I actually sprayed it. Also my first time spraying urea. Been hearing of others having a hard time applying such a small amount, plus since it's a Reno I want to get even coverage.

Plan on spoon feeding here on out, til average first frost.


----------



## zeus201

Sitting at 6 weeks post germination, Mazama mono, HOC @ 5/8" starting at the second mow. Hell strip, underneath the maple tree and along the planting beds are slowly filling in, but those were the problem areas from the jump.

Been spraying urea once a week @ ~0.10/m for the past 4 weeks.. Going to be switching to watering every other day and hopefully reduce to once a week in the coming weeks.

Density of better performing area: 


Color difference between Mazama (left) and NoMix. Remaining NoMix will be reno'd next summer. 


Hell Strip:


----------



## ninja[Sloth]

wish my yard looked like any of those, a lot of really bare spots waiting for another week

hope there's still time.


----------



## davegravy

I renoed just a small 8x13 section - was formerly a flower bed and is now being "incorporated" into my backyard turf.

I'm 21 days post germination and I haven't put anything on my seed yet. I'm due for a foliar FS + urea spray on the rest of my lawn, is there any reason I shouldn't hit my renoed area with this or is the iron bad for the young grass?

I could mix a separate tank with only urea for this section but would rather save the hassle if it won't harm anything.


----------



## g-man

I don't know how well it could handle it. I've wanted to test 0.1oz of Fe/ksqft rate in a reno in a foliar.

One thing you can do is spray it and immediately water it in. At least you only do one tank mix this way.


----------



## davegravy

g-man said:


> I don't know how well it could handle it. I've wanted to test 0.1oz of Fe/ksqft rate in a reno in a foliar.
> 
> One thing you can do is spray it and immediately water it in. At least you only do one tank mix this way.


Well it's a small plot at the back of my yard where it's not an eyesore, so not the end of the world if it's another season before I have grass there... maybe I'll just go for it for the sake of science.


----------



## Stuofsci02

What a difference a week makes... Day 34, continuing to cut twice per week to 1" with the manual reel. What I am excited about is the reno is as dark green as the surrounding grass which is a year old... I suspect I am in for a treat as this darkens up next year.


----------



## NJ-lawn

Stuofsci02 said:


> What a difference a week makes... Day 34, continuing to cut twice per week to 1" with the manual reel. What I am excited about is the reno is as dark green as the surrounding grass which is a year old... I suspect I am in for a treat as this darkens up next year.


Wow that is dark......did you apply anything like nitrogen or FAS? I'm at day 28 or so and my Reno os light green. I mowed once......needs to be mowed again soon


----------



## Stuofsci02

Just two apps of 16-16-16 for 1/2 lb N per k


----------



## Babameca

Just before tomorrow's reel cut at 1''
At 38 days after seeding. Vole keeps on tearing my edges...


----------



## Stuofsci02

Babameca said:


> Just before tomorrow's reel cut at 1''
> At 38 days after seeding. Vole keeps on tearing my edges...


Looks great! I am about 4 days behind you...


----------



## Babameca

@Stuofsci02 Your color is shocking!!! I guess my cheap spreader leaves a line just in the middle, but I am sure it will al blend down perfectly. Thanks for the comment!


----------



## Stuofsci02

Babameca said:


> @Stuofsci02 Your color is shocking!!! I guess my cheap spreader leaves a line just in the middle, but I am sure it will al blend down perfectly. Thanks for the comment!


Yes I am surprised by the color. This is Scott's 75/25 KBG/PRG which is I think the same stuff you killed
Yours is looking great... what spreader do you have? Are you hitting it with Urea?


----------



## Babameca

@Stuofsci02 
I have the cheap Scott's wheeled one from big box store...When I was seeding I noticed it leaves a line. Could not notice sooner, but from now on it won't be such an issue. I over seeded last fall with the summer mix (75/25) It looked amazing before winter and late spring, but there was something about it... It was growing like crazy. For 2-3'' inch I assume is great! I simply wanted more...
I used 10-25-10 2 times and then urea all weekly at 0.25N. This week I switched to Sustain 10-1-4 fert at micro prills.


----------



## ksturfguy

Day 25 for my Mazama Monostand. The growth over the last week has been crazy. Today was mow #2

Pics are from two different angles but here is Day 17



And here is today Day 25.


----------



## jha4aamu

First cut with the 260sl after the reno. Seed went down 8/24. Just put down my first app of N last Friday. Already planning my backyard reno


----------



## g-man

I know this question will pop up right around now.  Herbicides and PreM after seeding


----------



## social port

jha4aamu said:


> First cut with the 260sl after the reno. Seed went down 8/24. Just put down my first app of N last Friday. Already planning my backyard reno


Wow, that looks great.


----------



## bsryckman

Hey guys!

New to the forum--i've been cruising a while.

I've been doing a lawn reno over the past few weeks so I thought I'd share. This is really my first reno attempt. Life got in the way and I couldn't start until middle/late September unfortunately. I've helped a few others seed in the past, so I have at least some clue as to what I'm doing. But I did not find this forum until recently, and I realize now that I have already made a few mistakes. Oh well.

I'm in Saint Louis, MO and the weather can be iffy. However, it tends to stay warm here throughout October. We had 90 degree weather last week and a little bit more is expected this week.

Decided to do it right and put in an irrigation system to start. That was....fun. There must have been a tree in my front yard at some point because the roots were insane. Lots of work but hopefully it'll pay off because I did 100% KBG (Seedsuperstore SS1100 mix). I also added some new garden beds,, which I tilled w/ a mantis tiller down about 8 inches, then added compost and tilled again. Mulched over the top for weed suppression and hopefully can get around to planting some more this fall. I also ran the tiller over some spots on the front yard that were pretty compacted and worked in some compost.

I raked topsoil over the whole thing to even it out and supplied a decent base, then seeded (2.5lbs per 1000 sq/ft) and put down starter fert (Lesco). My front yard slopes and washout can be an issue in St. Louis, so I raked it in pretty well and rented a lawn roller to ensure good seed/soil contact and to try and keep it in place. I also used a light layer of EZ Straw with tack. Of course...I seeded on 9/18 and we got a completly unexpected downpour on 9/22 with 0.5 inch of rain in about 20 minutes. Happy I put down the straw, it looks like it prevented a total loss at least :?

The back yard had a pretty good base of TTTF, but I can tell there's lots of other stuff mixed in. It was pretty thin, so I spot sprayed the weeds, cut it as short as possible, aerated and then overseeded with the KBG. I probably should have just killed everything and started fresh (oh well). I also put down starter fert right away which was a mistake. But hopefully, with it being pretty thin, the KBG can have a chance. We'll see.

*Mistakes* (at least the ones I've found--maybe you guys see more):


Did not know about tenacity. Wish I would have used it.

Starter fert down before seeding in the back...should have waited a week or two

Straw? I have lots of wheat plants coming up, but apparently they are annuals so I shouldn't worry too much

*Progress:*


Had germination on day 7. I guess that's pretty decent for KBG? Looks to be filling in alright. Maybe some bare spots, which I will try to get a little more seed down ASAP because I know it's getting late especially for KBG

Watering schedule is 8am/11am/2pm/6pm for about 5 minutes each. Constant tinkering especially with these 90 degree days, just trying to keep things moist without soaking

Pictures of the project below. Please let me know if you have any suggestions! Thanks for reading


----------



## Rswarren14

@bsryckman That looks like great work. Did you have a crew do the irrigation or did you put that in yourself? Love the MP Rotators! I rigged together an above ground system for now. you can see it in my lawn Journal. If you have seen Ryan Knorrs videos on the YouTubes I did the same above ground irrigation setup. Saving for in-ground maybe I'll pull the trigger next spring. we shall see.


----------



## bsryckman

@Rswarren14 Thanks!

I did everything all by myself. A little bit over my head but I learned a lot. The hardest part with the irrigation was the slope. I tried to get everything in the system to drain to 2 or 3 low spots where I put in automatic drain valves--that way the pvc would drain after each run to help mitigate water freezing in the pipes. I will still winterize the system but I wanted to extra safety.

And like you I also did the above-ground irrigation setup! I copied that from Ryan Knorr and that's how i irrigated all summer. It also supplied the motivation to just put the pro-sprays and MP rotators in the ground and run pvc (since i had most of the supplies already). I just added a valve manifold and a rachio controller, which makes the new seeding schedule soooo much easier. And now i have zones!

Checked out your lawn journal--looks great. If you have any more questions about the irrigation system feel free the message me I can share some more info if you need it.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Update on playground reno now at 6 weeks.... Dropped HOC to 3/4" and hit it with PGR and FAS and another round of 16-16-16 at 1/2LB N per k.


----------



## Alias-Doe

Stuofsci02 said:


> Update on playground reno now at 6 weeks.... Dropped HOC to 3/4" and hit it with PGR and FAS and another round of 16-16-16 at 1/2LB N per k.


Looks Amazing . It's weird how it's already as dark if not darker than the established grass .


----------



## Stuofsci02

@Alias-Doe

Yes, this is quite amazing.. makes me wonder how dark it will get...


----------



## SumBeach35

I've been updating my thread but wanted to share my progress here as well.

36 DAG-JG BBU 1.75" HOC


----------



## 1028mountain

I posted a separate thread but here is mine:


----------



## NJ-lawn

@1028mountain looks great.....nice job


----------



## Stuofsci02

Looks great 1028mountain. I saw your other thread and it looks like you are battling a few issues... what seed type did you use? What is you current height of cut? Looks like you might want to mow a little lower 2-2.5" to prevent matting and let it dry out a bit


----------



## Stuofsci02

After FAS, PGR and a balanced fert over the weekend I am astounded on how dark this playground Reno is at 45 days especially for Scott's coated KBG seed that has no cultivar info on it. I am looking forward to seeing what the long term color will be.


----------



## crazymas0n

Looks great @Stuofsci02, I believe I used the same seed in my front yard spring reno, it's starting to darken up nicely after the summer. Doesn't look quite as nice as yours, but will hopefully get there. I noticed it responded very well to iron in fertilizer, darkened right up in a few days.


----------



## Stuofsci02

@crazymas0n Wow.. I have not caught up with your reno in a while.. That has come a really long way! Looks great!


----------



## 1028mountain

Stuofsci02 said:


> Looks great 1028mountain. I saw your other thread and it looks like you are battling a few issues... what seed type did you use? What is you current height of cut? Looks like you might want to mow a little lower 2-2.5" to prevent matting and let it dry out a bit


Pennington signature tall fescue. I just cut it yesterday to around 2-2.5" and watered is this morning the first time since Sunday morning. Supposed to be record highs here today 90+ so I figured today was a good day to water. Next water is Saturday, is that enough time to let it dry out?


----------



## DIYDad

Stuofsci02 said:


> Update on playground reno now at 6 weeks.... Dropped HOC to 3/4" and hit it with PGR and FAS and another round of 16-16-16 at 1/2LB N per k.


@Stuofsci02 I'm impressed how well that came in! Makes me sad to see the state of my front lawn renovation even after 6 weeks post- seeding. You have some great color there! I've been mowing at 1" with manual reel, and while the color is decent on the new KBG, it just hasn't established itself well, I have a ton of bare spots some are several feet across with no germination. I'm hoping it starts spreading at least a little bit before the first frost in a few weeks. Hope its not too late to push it with more N yet. I think I have a soil issue that's causing problems for me.


----------



## Babameca

Just another mow on the reno. Clock's ticking here. Low temps and slow growth. But hey, just another season.
Urea ready to spray tomorrow before the next rain.


----------



## Stuofsci02

@DIYDad

Keep at it... I had a really bad clumping tall fescue issue and it took several years and various tactics to get rid of it, but I like knowing how bad it was then and seeing it now..


----------



## Stuofsci02

Babameca said:


> Just another mow on the reno. Clock's ticking here. Low temps and slow growth. But hey, just another season.
> Urea ready to spray tomorrow before the next rain.


Looking Damn good.... not sure if it is Scott's coated KBG dark... but nice nonetheless :lol:


----------



## Babameca

@Stuofsci02 :lol: . Getting a bit tired of the flat front roller. On pictures, it looks good, but matts too much. May jump tomorrow to my place and get the grooved one. I want it not only to look good, but to grow good...
And easy on the FAS!


----------



## Stuofsci02

Babameca said:


> @Stuofsci02 :lol: . Getting a bit tired of the flat front roller. On pictures, it looks good, but matts too much. May jump tomorrow to my place and get the grooved one. I want it not only to look good, but to grow good...
> And easy on the FAS!


I think it will mat less when it thickens up... I'll take an easy on the FAS when you throw caution to the wind and step up from this half rate business.. :thumbup:


----------



## Babameca

@Stuofsci02 hahahaha challenge accepted!


----------



## Stuofsci02

1028mountain said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great 1028mountain. I saw your other thread and it looks like you are battling a few issues... what seed type did you use? What is you current height of cut? Looks like you might want to mow a little lower 2-2.5" to prevent matting and let it dry out a bit
> 
> 
> 
> Pennington signature tall fescue. I just cut it yesterday to around 2-2.5" and watered is this morning the first time since Sunday morning. Supposed to be record highs here today 90+ so I figured today was a good day to water. Next water is Saturday, is that enough time to let it dry out?
Click to expand...

Without being there it is hard to say when to water next. Heat is only part of the story, as humidity is a big factor. Do you have a moisture probe?


----------



## 1028mountain

Stuofsci02 said:


> 1028mountain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great 1028mountain. I saw your other thread and it looks like you are battling a few issues... what seed type did you use? What is you current height of cut? Looks like you might want to mow a little lower 2-2.5" to prevent matting and let it dry out a bit
> 
> 
> 
> Pennington signature tall fescue. I just cut it yesterday to around 2-2.5" and watered is this morning the first time since Sunday morning. Supposed to be record highs here today 90+ so I figured today was a good day to water. Next water is Saturday, is that enough time to let it dry out?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Without being there it is hard to say when to water next. Heat is only part of the story, as humidity is a big factor. Do you have a moisture probe?
Click to expand...

Yeah...I posted pics in my thread: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13951


----------



## ninja[Sloth]

I was doing good, but then I had a visitor



Then he brought friends





Spring will be busy I guess


----------



## 1028mountain

@ninja[Sloth]

That suuuucks man. I live in on a corner as well but I got a tall curb separating my yard from the street.


----------



## ninja[Sloth]

I have dreams of building a race track style rumble strip along that turn, one a lot tighter than what is there because they keep pushing the road over soft ground... hence the puddles, it sinks in bad.

It would also make people consider stopping at the stop sign before pulling on to the paved street.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

With a corner open to the public, I would put mulch and plants with a few obvious large rocks. Then, keep grass away from the road. If someone drove over the edge of the mulch, just add more mulch. If someone hit a rock, hopefully for their sake, they were driving a dump truck. Grass will get driven over constantly on a corner. Not worth trying to maintain it.


----------



## 1028mountain

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> With a corner open to the public, I would put mulch and plants with a few obvious large rocks. Then, keep grass away from the road. If someone drove over the edge of the mulch, just add more mulch. If someone hit a rock, hopefully for their sake, they were driving a dump truck. Grass will get driven over constantly on a corner. Not worth trying to maintain it.


My thoughts as well, do something else there. Or plant grass along with large rocks if you really want grass there. I haven't decided what I am going to do outside my fence along the corner yet but shied away from grass due to all the rocks/debris that gets kicked up there. Probably just mulch and plant some decorate grass or something.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Week 7 on the mini playground reno. I'm really happy with how this KBG is filling in and darkening up. This is cut at about 3/4 " HOC


----------



## 86halibut

Stuofsci02 said:


> Week 7 on the mini playground reno. I'm really happy with how this KBG is filling in and darkening up. This is cut at about 3/4 " HOC


beautiful. what kinda kbg did you plant there?


----------



## Stuofsci02

86halibut said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Week 7 on the mini playground reno. I'm really happy with how this KBG is filling in and darkening up. This is cut at about 3/4 " HOC
> 
> 
> 
> beautiful. what kinda kbg did you plant there?
Click to expand...

It is just a Scotts coated KBG (75% KBG, 25% PRG)


----------



## NJ-lawn

@Stuofsci02

Looks great.....I'm 5 weeks post germination. I'm thinking of adding FAS with my spray urea treatment. Since there's AS in the FAS should I decrease the amount of urea in the spray? I plan on .25 lb/1M sqft. ( my weekly rate) or not a big deal?

I think you sprayed iron on your Reno awhile back.


----------



## Stuofsci02

NJ-lawn said:


> @Stuofsci02
> 
> Looks great.....I'm 5 weeks post germination. I'm thinking of adding FAS with my spray urea treatment. Since there's AS in the FAS should I decrease the amount of urea in the spray? I plan on .25 lb/1M sqft. ( my weekly rate) or not a big deal?
> 
> I think you sprayed iron on your Reno awhile back.


If it was me I would do the FAS without the urea. The amount of AS is small, but I would not want to overload the grass with foliar N. It might be fine, but I have never done it, so I am not sure. I did do FAS at 2oz F and 2oz AS per k last week with my PGR app. My grass was 6 weeks old at the time. I have also been pounding the reno with 16-16-16 at 1/2lbN every two weeks since 2 weeks after germination.


----------



## NJ-lawn

Oh ok......I wonder if I should skip the urea if I do a FAS & PGR app. Like I mentioned I only spray .25 lbs per 1M. Have not done a PGR on the Reno, so maybe it's time


----------



## Alex1389

I seem to be having an issue with areas of the renovation that came in way too thick (probably due to washout pushing the seed there). These areas have remained a lighter green and more finely bladed. Anything I can do about these areas? Should I thin them out?


----------



## Rswarren14

Hey all. I'll post this question in the fungus thread as well but wanted to get coverage across the forum. I'm starting to see some spots like this in the side yard. Any idea what it is?


----------



## NJ-lawn

Question...... I been mowing @ ~1" twice a week. I'm wondering if mowing low is at the expense of the root system? I have a manual reel mower that I pick up when turning most of the time but a few times I pivot the mower while turning and dug up/ tore up some turf.

Is this happening because of shallow root system? I water now 2x/ week at about an inch. Should I mow higher rest season to establish deeper roots? I would like to keep my KBG @ 1" or so, maybe lower all next year. 






Some bleaching from Tenacity. I did first FAS app today, hopefully darkens up some.


----------



## Rswarren14

@NJ-lawn Hey. What rate did you use the Tenacity?


----------



## Stuofsci02

Amazed by how dark this is getting... Am I crazy for wanting to reno all my grass with this Scott's KBG? This is 1"..


----------



## Scagfreedom48z+

Stuofsci02 said:


> Amazed by how dark this is getting... Am I crazy for wanting to reno all my grass with this Scott's KBG? This is 1"..


That color! Wow I'm more impressed that it's Scotts. If would be tough to compare the scotts vs a higher quality KBG like Mazama for example.

Do you by chance have the seed tag from the bag?


----------



## Stuofsci02

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazed by how dark this is getting... Am I crazy for wanting to reno all my grass with this Scott's KBG? This is 1"..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That color! Wow I'm more impressed that it's Scotts. If would be tough to compare the scotts vs a higher quality KBG like Mazama for example.
> 
> Do you by chance have the seed tag from the bag?
Click to expand...

There is no information on the bag other that it being 75% kbg and 25% prg. It was the coated seed... I am shocked by how quickly it got dark.. it is not even 50 days old....


----------



## NateM

Thanks to all the great info here, Im considering my first reno a successful one! A few thin spots, but overall I am very happy with the results.


----------



## 1028mountain

@NateM

Looks great man.


----------



## npompei

Hey guys,

My first reno, well, new construction but a reno after a failed spring seeding - going I think nicely considering where I started. But I have these thin stripes that are starting to become more and more noticeable. You can clearly see them running vertically towards/away from the house. The higher areas next to the stripes have gotten nice and tall and def need to be cut.

I'm trying to figure out what may be the problem. I used a slit seeder and had to actually run up the hill pushing the damn thing because it wasn't self powered (don't ask, just don't...) so maybe I didn't get enough seed down in those areas? Or I was thinking when I put down the starter fert that maybe I didn't get the best coverage in those lanes or maybe when I was broadcasting I had some overlap and that's why I have better growth in those higher areas?

I've cut it once and I'll be cutting it again today. When I cut it, it doesn't look as noticeable but obviously, it's there. And it's been there since I seeded. So it's not just a new development which is why I'm thinking its a thinner seeded area from the slit seeder or maybe when I broadcast the starter fert I didn't get the right amount down in those areas?

Anything I could do this time of year to help? If I wait until spring, is there anything I can do then to help those 'stripes?'

Thanks,


----------



## g-man

@npompei that looks like uneven fertilizer application.


----------



## npompei

g-man said:


> @npompei that looks like uneven fertilizer application.


Yeah that's what I was kind of thinking. Do you think I can get any down now or do I have to wait? Seeds been down 23 days today (seeded Sept. 22nd) and if I can get some down, what do you recommend? Soil test should hopefully be back end of this week...


----------



## SumBeach35

npompei said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> @npompei that looks like uneven fertilizer application.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah that's what I was kind of thinking. Do you think I can get any down now or do I have to wait? Seeds been down 23 days today (seeded Sept. 22nd) and if I can get some down, what do you recommend? Soil test should hopefully be back end of this week...
Click to expand...

What did you put out at seed down @@npompei?

A soil test wont be as accurate if you've applied fert within the last 6 months.

I would throw down some fert , .1-.25 lbs/M of UREA or AMS and water it in. Milo, Scott's or XGRN would work as well.


----------



## MDJoe

Stuofsci02 said:


> Amazed by how dark this is getting... Am I crazy for wanting to reno all my grass with this Scott's KBG? This is 1"..


Gorgeous.


----------



## Stuofsci02

@npompei that prg turned out pretty damn good.... instalawn

@MDJoe Thanks!


----------



## npompei

Thanks @Stuofsci02! I just hope it holds over winter and into next summer. I'll overseed with some TTTF and see how that goes next fall.

@SumBeach35 I used a Synatek Starter Fertilizer (same company for the seed) immediately after I put down the seed. I don't have the numbers on me but I'm pretty sure it was an 18-24-x?
Edit - found the bag!


So it looks like Urea is my cheapest option? Which I need after this process ha. So if I have roughly 30k square feet, and you're recommending let's say .25lbs of Urea, I would need roughly 13lbs of it? Am I right on that math? 
(.2lbs/1k sq.ft. of 46-0-0 = 13lbs for 30,000 sq.ft.) seems like it's not enough? Want to make sure I'm reading this correctly. Pardon the newb...

And I'm spreading this evenly across the entire yard, not just in my bare sections? Figure I am but just making sure!

Now to make sure I get this down properly with the new spreader I bought...


----------



## 1028mountain

@npompei

I used this calculator for urea: http://agebb.missouri.edu/fertcalc/

Using your numbers and .25/1k it comes out to 16.31lbs of urea to cover 30Ksqft.


----------



## npompei

1028mountain said:


> @npompei
> 
> I used this calculator for urea: http://agebb.missouri.edu/fertcalc/
> 
> Using your numbers and .25/1k it comes out to 16.31lbs of urea to cover 30Ksqft.


Lol I just used that site and came up with 13lbs?!?! What the hell did I miss?! Oh wait, maybe because I put down .2lbs not .25? I guess it's ok to go up to .25?


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## 1028mountain

npompei said:


> 1028mountain said:
> 
> 
> 
> @npompei
> 
> I used this calculator for urea: http://agebb.missouri.edu/fertcalc/
> 
> Using your numbers and .25/1k it comes out to 16.31lbs of urea to cover 30Ksqft.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol I just used that site and came up with 13lbs?!?! What the hell did I miss?! Oh wait, maybe because I put down .2lbs not .25? I guess it's ok to go up to .25?
Click to expand...

At first I came up with 13 as well but I put 13k sqft instead of 30. All this math gets confusing real quick lol. From what I have read its ok to use .25 as its not enough to hurt anything but I am new to all of this. I am sure one of the vets will respond though.


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## g-man

0.25/.46 = 0.55lb of urea/ksqft. Just use half a pound per ksqft to make easy math.

For 0.5lb of N, use one pound of urea per ksqft.


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## npompei

Thanks @g-man 15lbs it is!

And Urea should go down onto dry grass? And how soon after should I wait for rain (I could irrigate but we've got some raining days scheduled in the next week.)


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## Alias-Doe

@g-man I'm nearing the 60 day mark and was wondering if the prodiamine was necessary ? Grass is growing great but I have crabgrass and creeping Charlie in bunches across the lawn . Would an application of prodiamine at this time help reduce these weeds next spring ? Or should I do the prodiamine application early spring ?a local landscaper was telling me to skip it because there's still grass seed in the soil that will germinate in the spring . Is there any truth to this ?


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## g-man

I did apply prodiamine on day 60 on my reno. POA a can still germinate and I don't want to take a risk.


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## KoopHawk

If you're at day 60, I can't imagine any more grass seed germinating in the spring.


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## Rswarren14

If I applied tenacity twice already on my Reno should I also think about a prodiamine or dithiopyr(dimension)app to help with weed pressure in the spring? I'm not planning on overseeding in the spring so worrying about new seed germination wouldn't be an issue. would something like this help take the Reno to the next level in terms of protection against weeds? Any adverse effects to new grass using these preMs on new grass? I seeded KBG and PRG Sept 1st.


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## SNOWBOB11

Rswarren14 said:


> If I applied tenacity twice already on my Reno should I also think about a prodiamine or dithiopyr(dimension)app to help with weed pressure in the spring? I'm not planning on overseeding in the spring so worrying about new seed germination wouldn't be an issue. would something like this help take the Reno to the next level in terms of protection against weeds? Any adverse effects to new grass using these preMs on new grass? I seeded KBG and PRG Sept 1st.


Prodiamine you should wait 60 days post germination to apply. That would put you into the first week of November which is probably too late anyways as most fall weeds would have germinated by then if they were going to.

Dimension I believe can be applied 30 days after germination so if you have it you could go ahead and apply that now. Check the label on the dimension to be sure.


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## Rswarren14

@SNOWBOB11 got it. So Prodiamine is more for uses on established lawns or late summer reno's basically? Just so anyone was interested this is from the Dimension PDF label.

*Turfgrass*


> _Use Dimension 2EW on seeded, sodded, or sprigged lawns, ornamental turfgrass and unimproved turfgrass that are well established. *Newly established turf must have developed a good root system and a uniform stand, and have received at least two mowings following seeding or sprigging before making the first application of this product.* Note precautions below for sodding. Use of this product on turf that is not well-established, or has been weakened by weather, pest, disease, chemical, mechanical or other related stress, may result in turf injury._


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## SNOWBOB11

@Rswarren14 Yes so if you had seeded in say early August you could have put the prodiamine down by now.

Next season you can use prodiamine in spring and fall or twice in spring and once in fall if doing split apps without issue.


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## Rswarren14

Thanks for the info @SNOWBOB11. I'll think about putting down the Dimension in the next week or so. Like you said though, weeds probably already came up already so might just be wasting the product if I spray it out now.


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## Stuofsci02

Continuing to fill.. week 8..


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## Stuofsci02

For those of you sweating your reno not being completely filled in I wanted to share some pics of my last fall reno from May 8 this year and now...


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## 1028mountain

@Stuofsci02

So a year later it filled in almost completely? Fall to fall is when it really took hold? Your wording is a little confusing and your pictures don't seem to be in the right sequence.


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## kasberjr1

The below pictures are from Saturday (Day 18..seed down) of my *** Renovation. The close up is of probably the best spot in the yard. The other is just an overall view of the front. You can see that there is some good germination from the slit seeding and some places where there is not great germination. There does appear to be germination everywhere however some areas are thicker than others.

This morning on my way out to work I noticed that some of the baby grass was tillering. Should I start spoon feeding now? I purchased a 12-12-12 general purpose fertilizer and was planning to do another app of RGS along with some Air8. Any recommendations are helpful.


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## Stuofsci02

1028mountain said:


> @Stuofsci02
> 
> So a year later it filled in almost completely? Fall to fall is when it really took hold? Your wording is a little confusing and your pictures don't seem to be in the right sequence.


Sorry.. Pics 2 and 3 are from now. 1, 4 and 5 are from May 8th this year. My reno started with seed down Sept 22 2018, and had not filled in before winter. You can see from 1, 4 and 5 which was May 8th 2019, that it was established but not thick or filled in. You can see now from pics 2 and 3 that the grass is near perfect just 5 months later...


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## Babameca

Reno activities being over for this year here is the chronological progress of same spot from bare dirt to today (2 months after germination.


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## Babameca

@kasberjr1 Yes. Start with a weekly 0.25N/M of 12-12-12 for 4 weeks. I went with 10-25-10 which is 'heavier' on P for that reason, but yours should work just fine. It will give you 1lb of P which is needed for rooting.


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## kasberjr1

Thanks!


Babameca said:


> @kasberjr1 Yes. Start with a weekly 0.25N/M of 12-12-12 for 4 weeks. I went with 10-25-10 which is 'heavier' on P for that reason, but yours should work just fine. It will give you 1lb of P which is needed for rooting.


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## Stuofsci02

Playground reno rounding out the season strong at 1" HOC


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## Rswarren14

@Stuofsci02 Beautiful!!


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## Stuofsci02

Rswarren14 said:


> @Stuofsci02 Beautiful!!


Thanks!


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## MassHole

Stuofsci02 said:


> Playground reno rounding out the season strong at 1" HOC


[email protected] why is it so much darker?


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## SumBeach35

Taken at Dusk but just about the end of the season for me. Tenacity bleaching just about gone. AMS app tomorrow is likely the last of the season.


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## Stuofsci02

MassHole said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Playground reno rounding out the season strong at 1" HOC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected] why is it so much darker?
Click to expand...

Its a good question.. The rest of my grass is reasonably dark.. This stuff (Scott's 75% KBG and 25% PRG) is insanely dark....


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## 1028mountain

Stuofsci02 said:


> 1028mountain said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Stuofsci02
> 
> So a year later it filled in almost completely? Fall to fall is when it really took hold? Your wording is a little confusing and your pictures don't seem to be in the right sequence.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry.. Pics 2 and 3 are from now. 1, 4 and 5 are from May 8th this year. My reno started with seed down Sept 22 2018, and had not filled in before winter. You can see from 1, 4 and 5 which was May 8th 2019, that it was established but not thick or filled in. You can see now from pics 2 and 3 that the grass is near perfect just 5 months later...
> @Stuofsci02
> 
> Did you reseed anywhere between?
Click to expand...


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## Rswarren14

Ready for Halloween! Put down some stripes last night with the manual reel.

HOC 1"


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## ReelOlives

So I started the renovation back in September with a complete PRG front yard.



This is the result as of a couple days ago. HOC - 3/4 inch. (I know I need to pick of the leaves)


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## Rswarren14

@ReelOlives those stripes though.


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## kasberjr1

First Mowjob on the reno this past Saturday (11/16) and this was also my first mow with my GM1000. Cut at 1" HOC 46 days after seed down. Lots of spots that need to fill in but I am super happy with how it looks right now.


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## shadowlawnjutsu

I have a 2 gallon sprayer and about to spray glyphosate. I bought knockout with 42% AI. The 2 gallon sprayer was calibrated and sprays 1 gallon/1000. Glyphosate
Instructions tells that it needs 2.5 ounce of gly to a gallon and can be used to up to 300sqft. Does that mean I gave to finish 2 gallon in a 600sqft and then refil? With my calibration, I will have to go back and fort on my 600sqft area just to finish 2 gallons? Is that how it's supposed to work?


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