# St Augustine beat up by Blindside - What now?



## codemaster (Sep 29, 2019)

Weeds were taking over my St Augustine lawn. It is really bad and I have a bit if everything going on in there.
I'm not an expert so I researched a bit and found some people recommending Blindside.
So I went ahead with blanket application.

I believe my mistake was using the higher rate in the label for warm season grass: 0.23 oz / 1000 ft2.
Later I came to realize that the higher rate may be for spot application.

Anyway, its been 5 days and it is doing a great job with the weeds (with the exception of crabgrass which didn't change a thing) however, the St Augustine grass is pretty beat up at this point. It is turning brownish in a lot of places as if it is dying. From a distance, it is similar to what you see when it goes forever without water.

I'm not sure whether or not I'm at a point of no return, if I did "killed the grass in the whole backyard", what do you think?
Any recommendations to bust the St Augustine health at this point?

I have these N-ext Bio Stimulant Pack I got from the LCN when I decided I was going to start taking care of the lawn (MicroGeene, Humic12, Air8 and RGS) but never used them. Do you believe I can use any of these to help at this point and at what rates? Or anything else such as fertilizers or whatever?

By the way, temperature in the day of the application and past 5 days is in the upper 80s.
it rained a lot in the first 2 to 3 days and then it stopped. Which raises another question? Should I water it more than normal or regulate irrigation some how?

Any ideas or suggestions are appreciated.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

I looked at your other posts since you don't have a journal going. It looks like you put down 3 herbicides in the last ~3 weeks. Is the subject area one that received more than just blindside?


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## mjh648 (Sep 1, 2020)

I put down blindside at the high rate in a 5' x 5' test area at the beginning of September to battle nutsedge. Temps were in the high 70s at application but maybe 4-5 hours later it was in high 80s or low 90s.

It wiped out the nutsedge but my st augustine in that area is still scorched today and don't see it recovering any time soon.

Some things I've learned about Blindside:

dont apply when temps will get to 85 or higher. Looks like you may have seen temps over 85 the days you applied

the MSM in blinside is not something i would start with to get rid of weeds. seems like a VERY harsh herbicide

be careful applying blindside near trees. MSM can damage or kill trees easily. Looking over your fence line there are some trees in your neighbords lawn

possibly only apply blindside at the beginning of spring. This will give you the full growing season for the grass to recover. Use something like celsius, dismiss or certainty depending on what weeds you need to get rid of in the fall


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## codemaster (Sep 29, 2019)

ionicatoms said:


> I looked at your other posts since you don't have a journal going. It looks like you put down 3 herbicides in the last ~3 weeks. Is the subject area one that received more than just blindside?


If you referring to my only other post where I'm looking for help identifying weeds (with pictures), that one is really old.
I end up resoding the highlighted part which was dominated by what appears to be blanket crabgrass. But that was about 1 year ago.

Since them a lot happened:


I learned here that taken care of a lawn is not an easy task and requires knowledge so I handled it to these "professionals".
They did a terrible job. Lawn was thin, diseases and weed were taking over (including the same crabgrass - different spots).
Their last application (of whatever they were applying) was 6 weeks ago when I fired them.
Since them I'm reading a lot here and watching YouTube videos, trying to compile as much info as I can, learn a bit and start doing it on my own (I enjoy it).
 I was able to deal with a fungus problem they left behind and now it is the weeds.


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## codemaster (Sep 29, 2019)

mjh648 said:


> the MSM in blinside is not something i would start with to get rid of weeds. seems like a VERY harsh herbicide
> 
> be careful applying blindside near trees. MSM can damage or kill trees easily. Looking over your fence line there are





Wow !!! That I didn't know.
I think I will be doing my neighbor a favor if I kill his trees  but now I'm concerned about my mango tree.
I tried to stay a few feet away from it while spraying. I guess now I have to wait and see what happens.

I'm seeing a lot of people recommending Celsius for St. Augustine (in different places).
I will order some and forget about the Blindside for now.

I might be wrong but I believe TruGreen - the folks who were taking care of the lawn before, were applying Celsius on a 5 week intervals but this stuff was growing anyways, reason I fired them so maybe Celsius will work after I pass this bad phase and get some pre-emergent in? Basically when it is not this bad?


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

Blindside is a fine product, just keep the application rate low. For nutsedge I use 3 applications 30 days apart at the low rate 0.075. Even at the low rate it still wipes out labeled weeds.

Depending on how well blindside cleaned up your weeds, you may not need Celsius. A good pre emergent program will control the crabgrass and other annuals.

Note: you have hit the annual max and must wait 365 days before reapplying any sulfentrazone.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

I would never put blindside on st Augustine. I wish you would have ask the board before you done this, but now all you can do is water and wait. Celsius and Certainty will get most of the weeds and after that you go to specialty products


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

Just from what I have read, it seems like Blindside is harsher to St Augustine than Celsius. Still need to be careful with Celsius on St Augustine, but it's been pretty good to me. Only thing I've noticed is temporary slowing of growth for a week or two after spraying. I don't use a surfactant if it's going to be over 85 degrees. For sedges I use Certainty and I mix it with the Celsius. Celsius + Certainty would probably get most of your weeds. I did try a product with sulfentrazone a couple years ago and it damaged my SA grass.


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## mjh648 (Sep 1, 2020)

check this post out for a rundown of SA products you should use.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4683


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

Since you didn't put out any other herbicide, and you are within the label rate (assuming you didn't measure incorrectly), I think you'll be alright in the long run. Everything is slowing down this time of year, so recovery may take some time.

Water as needed; don't need to go crazy.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

codemaster said:


> I believe my mistake was using the higher rate in the label for warm season grass: 0.23 oz / 1000 ft2.
> Later I came to realize that the higher rate may be for spot application.


The mistake you made was not asking on this forum before spraying.  I believe if you had asked, there would have probably been at least a few alarm bells going off. I have dinged my yard a few times and probably would have dinged it a dozen more times had it not been for the experienced guys (and gals) on this forum warning me. I don't use Blindside because it is a harsh herbicide but it does have it's place (it's a VERY small place).

With that, SA is a warm-season grass so it will self-repair. Live and learn... we've all done it.


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## codemaster (Sep 29, 2019)

Thanks to all of you. I really appreciate all the comments, really helpful.
It may be a long way until a get it back to a thick green (almost) weed free lawn as I use to have, but... I will do my best to get there.

Also I will make sure I ask around before doing something stupid again  .
I will see if I can create a journal here so you can see the progress.

I thought I should go there and take some pictures to show you after all of you being so kind.
Here is what it looks like as of today.
Don't mind the circle in the middle, I had a trampoline in there.




























Here is what the lawn looks like when you look closer (all over the place).
I would say it is a disease if I didn't know these dark spots only showed up right after the Blindside application.










I still have to deal with some spots where Blindside had no effect.

I have this thingie in some places and based on some pictures I found online it appears to be crabgrass.
Some stuff that took over a part of the yard last year and required me to resod it.
It is not that bad at this point but if will take over if I don't manage to get rid of it (and it is sowing up on multiple places):




























And then there is this thing on a single spot (that keeps growing and taking over its surroundings):



















Something very similar to the above died on different places which tells me it was similar... but not the same:










This is where I am.
Thanks again for all the help and if someone knows any magic potion to get rid of the crabgrass looking thing and the other one please don't hesitate to tell me.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

if you aren't already, get yourself on a fungicide and insecticide program. Raise the height of cut. Keep spot spraying over the winter. You'll be in good shape by April or May.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

@codemaster that doesn't look too bad. It's certainly dinged but not scorched. It will recover just fine. Just be careful not to spray anything with MSM inside the drip line of any of those trees. I know you said you didn't see the spots until you sprayed the blindside but that sure looks like rhizoctonia in photo number #4. @ionicatoms gave some good advice to cover that base over the winter. A solid pre-em program will minimize the crabgrass issues. Pictures #8 and #9 look like they could be common bermuda. I could be wrong if picture #10 is the same stuff because Blindside shouldn't kill common bermuda.


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## codemaster (Sep 29, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> I know you said you didn't see the spots until you sprayed the blindside but that sure looks like rhizoctonia in photo number #4


I believe you are right. It is getting worse by the day and it is becoming more clear to me it is a fungus problem.
I have Scotts Disease Ex and BioAdvanced Fungos Control (liquid).

The problem is: it is being raining every day (and night) here.
Today is cloudy, humid and about 1" of rain is expected (on and off, starting in the evening) and it is going to be like this for the rest of the week.

Should I apply at least the granular one (Disease EX) regardless of the rain?



ionicatoms said:


> if you aren't already, get yourself on a fungicide and insecticide program. Raise the height of cut. Keep spot spraying over the winter. You'll be in good shape by April or May.


Same here with spot spraying weeds.
Besides the ones Blindside didn't kill, new ones are growing already.
I bought Celsius WG so I have it available now but will it do any good if I spot spray under this current weather (rain on and off)?

By the way I also have available Image Southern Lawn Weed Killer, which I use to apply before I handled my lawn over to TruGreen in case it helps in any way.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

codemaster said:


> Should I apply at least the granular one (Disease EX) regardless of the rain?


Yes, put down DiseaseEx regardless of rain; it's activated by water. It takes time for the product to translocate from the roots to the foliage. FYI - Liquid fungicide will perform better for curative effect.



codemaster said:


> I bought Celsius WG so I have it available now but will it do any good if I spot spray under this current weather (rain on and off)?
> 
> By the way I also have available Image Southern Lawn Weed Killer, which I use to apply before I handled my lawn over to TruGreen in case it helps in any way.


I've had mixed luck with spraying before a rain. Not enough experience to give advice. I simply try to follow the label instructions for application before/after irrigation.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

codemaster said:


> I bought Celsius WG so I have it available now but will it do any good if I spot spray under this current weather (rain on and off)?


Just try to find a window where it can sit on the blades for 3 to 4 hours.


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## codemaster (Sep 29, 2019)

ionicatoms said:


> Yes, put down DiseaseEx regardless of rain; it's activated by water...


You're right, it makes complete sense for the Disease EX since it is granules. And I guess if the rain washes some of it out, keeping some is better than nothing I guess.

Yesterday I had a window of about 4 hours without rain (still ugly, cloudy, humid but bo rain) so I went ahead and applied both. The liquid one says it is rain proof after it is dry so... hoping for the best.



Redtwin said:


> Just try to find a window where it can sit on the blades for 3 to 4 hours.


That is exactly what I was looking for, some kind of window I should try since some products say rain proof after dry, some others after one hour... I will see what I can do.

Anyway, thanks a lot guys.


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## mjh648 (Sep 1, 2020)

How much rain are you getting?


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## codemaster (Sep 29, 2019)

It was really bad at the beginning of the week. 
The forecast for today is about 0.6" (feels like we are getting a bit more than that). Yesterday was about the same.
It is on and off the whole day but not heavy rain. 
Forecast for tomorrow is about 0.3" but who knows.

Rain chances are fading daily from 82% to 42% between now and the 26th so in the next 7 days I don't think a day will go by without rain.


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## mjh648 (Sep 1, 2020)

I wouldn't worry about < 1" over 24hours in terms of washing away granules. If it were a continuous downpour then maybe.


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