# Comparing John Deere, Toro, Jacobsen for Homeowners



## Michael303 (Jun 12, 2017)

These three manufacturers seem to be the most popular mowers that folks here are picking up used. For good reason I assume.

I'm not sure how common the floating head mowers are for home use so just considering the rigid mowers do any of these makers have an advantage over the other for homeowners picking up used models? Are any of these easier to service, adjust, or get parts for?

I noticed the transport axles can be removed on the Greensmaster. Can they be removed on others?

Do any of these have a cut height up to 1.5" or can they be easily modified to reach that?

I noticed some hybrid models too with electric motors that power the reel and drive. For the homeowner in the used market that sounds like it could be great or it could unneeded complexity that would lead to high service expenses.

Any feedback is appreciated. Just trying to do the homework up front so I don't buy something and find out I'd be happier with something else later. Hopefully this will be helpful for others in the future too.


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

There isn't a wrong choice, including the Barroness Greens mower.

Unless your budget is unlimited, I would go with the one that you think is the best value looking at price and condition.

If you're mechanically inclined, you should look at a few that may need work if the price is appropriate.

I think some of the 26' mowers reach 1.5' or very close.

A groomer is very nice to have. It's worth a little extra scratch if you find one, but shouldn't be a deal breaker.


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## Michael303 (Jun 12, 2017)

Redtenchu said:


> There isn't a wrong choice, including the Barroness Greens mower.
> 
> Unless your budget is unlimited, I would go with the one that you think is the best value looking at price and condition.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. Due to my small lawn I'm looking for an 18" or possibly 22" model but that's good info on the 26".


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

Some greens mowers have the ability to go higher than normal via optional front roller kits but what golf course mows the greens at .5" or higher - Greensmowers are meant to cut everyday at .250 or less

If you looking to mow 1" or higher you will need to look for a tee/collar/approach mower which is going to be a fixed head mower. most all of them have removable transport wheels. golf courses trailer then to each location, mow, then load them back on a trailer to the next spot to mow.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

The John Deere 180E and 220E can be set up to 1.42" bench HOC. I have no direct experience with them, but the QA5 cutting heads are the same as what is on my triplex. A couple nice things about them are you can have that High HOC and still have an aggressive bedknife attitude since both rollers are adjustable and it is a floating head. Also the clip frequency can be adjusted which is nice to slow down when mowing at a higher HOC.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

And welcome to TLF Michael303! Glad to see another soon to be cool season member reel mowing KBG! These mowers are not just for the warm season guys! :nod: :thumbsup:


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## palms (Mar 22, 2017)

Interested to hear opinions on this as well since I anticipate moving up from a Tru-Cut C-25 sometime in the next 12-18 months. I need to see what the local golf courses are using in the meantime so I can be sure to line up maintenance needs beyond my capacity here in the garage.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Pete1313 said:


> The John Deere 180E and 220E can be set up to 1.42" bench HOC. I have no direct experience with them, but the QA5 cutting heads are the same as what is on my triplex. A couple nice things about them are you can have that High HOC and still have an aggressive bedknife attitude since both rollers are adjustable and it is a floating head. Also the clip frequency can be adjusted which is nice to slow down when mowing at a higher HOC.


Making a mental note to ask you more about roller/bedknife options for the QA5. I have a 220E with a smooth front roller, but I just haven't had a lot of time to use the mower yet (still running my Toro GM1000).


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## Reelnutt (May 4, 2017)

Beware of a 18in cut I had a Greens King 518 Jake awesome mower but unless your putting green level it's more finicky than a larger model


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## Michael303 (Jun 12, 2017)

That's surprising to hear. I would Have thought it would be the other way around. What height we're you cutting at with it?


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## Reelnutt (May 4, 2017)

I think at 3/4 when I had this one. I've had so many the GM1000 was prob my favorite. I've got a Flex 21 now it's growing on me


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Reelnutt said:


> I've got a Flex 21 now it's growing on me


What's the max HOC of the Flex?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

The Toro Flex is only around 1/2", I think.


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## Michael303 (Jun 12, 2017)

What would it take to get extend the cut height of any of these to 1.5"? Could I just extend the front roller brackets somehow? I haven't been able to talk the wife into going super low putting green height yet. I'm hunting around trying to find some close-up pictures at the moment.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

There are OEM and secondary market brackets that are used to raise the HOC. You'd want to pick a mower, and then see what optional brackets are available.


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

Pete1313 said:


> And welcome to TLF Michael303! Glad to see another soon to be cool season member reel mowing KBG! These mowers are not just for the warm season guys! :nod: :thumbsup:


 :thumbup:


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

dfw_pilot said:


> There are OEM and secondary market brackets that are used to raise the HOC. You'd want to pick a mower, and then see what optional brackets are available.


That's cool. I didn't realize these were available through R&R. :thumbup:


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## Michael303 (Jun 12, 2017)

So here are a couple mowers I was looking at.

2010 JACOBSEN ECLIPSE 118 (This one almost seems to be priced too low)
http://www.machinefinder.com/ww/en-US/machines/2010-jacobsen-eclipse-118-ridged-mower-4171867

2005 TORO 800 
http://www.machinefinder.com/ww/en-US/machines/2005-toro-800-mower-3525837

Any thoughts on either of these?

I called this place and they said it would be 300-500 to ship a pallet to CO and they can get up to three mowers on a pallet. Anyone else in CO looking for a mower?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

The Eclipse is a hybrid, like the JD E-series - gas engine with an electric reel motor. The max HOC appears to be a little under 1/2". There may be a kit available to increase that though.

On the Toro, I suspect most of the 18" reels probably have low hours, but 2005 is a little older than I would personally consider.

That's said, both seem to be priced right!


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## Michael303 (Jun 12, 2017)

Ware said:


> 2005 is a little older than I would personally consider.


Any particular reason why?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Just that it's approaching 13 years old - although it ultimately all comes down to how much it was used and how well it was cared for. I have encountered some corrosion issues on my 2009 Toro GM1000 - for example, I snapped a bedbar bolt last year that ended up costing about $200 to repair (new bedbar, bushings, bolts, etc), plus downtime in the middle of my growing season. That was on top of the new bedknife/screws that I was replacing when it happened. Replacement parts can add up, so in my mind there is some value/insurance in maybe spending a little more up front to get a nicer/newer unit - in hopes that it will require less maintenance once you get it home. Used greens mowers are sold at cents on the dollar, whereas replacement parts are sold at "list" - so your dollar may go a little further at the mower acquisition stage, if that makes sense. Just a theory though - every used mower is different. :thumbup:


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## Michael303 (Jun 12, 2017)

That makes sense.

Has anyone found that parts and maintenance cost are higher for some brands or models than others?

I could be wrong but that's one of the possible factors that has me shying away from any of the electric hybrid models. For all I know they could be even more reliable.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

The electric makes me a little nervous too (I have a JD 220E); however, they use a brushless motor, so it should run a very long time. Like everything else, it's probably not a problem until it's a problem :lol:. I think they use the same electric reel motor on some of the JD riding greens/fairway mowers, so they should be readily available if there is ever an issue.

I've had really good luck getting a few small parts from the closest JD golf dealer to me - and it was a marginally better experience than I've had talking to the nearest Toro golf dealer to me (Dallas), but maybe people in Oklahoma are just nicer :lol: .

I think Jacobsen actually lets you order parts right from their website with free shipping on orders over $100. John Deere also has an online portal/parts catalog available, and the local JD golf dealer can drop ship items if they don't have them in stock.

Also, places like R&R Products sell common replacement/wear parts for the major mower brands.

My biggest concern with the Jacobsen you linked is the HOC range. If you can commit to staying under 1/2", that looks like a great mower. The guys here with the Toro Flex 21's are in the same boat, and do a great job with it, but it's not something I would be able to commit to as I travel some for work.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Pete1313 said:


> The John Deere 180E and 220E can be set up to 1.42" bench HOC. I have no direct experience with them, but the QA5 cutting heads are the same as what is on my triplex. A couple nice things about them are you can have that High HOC and still have an aggressive bedknife attitude since both rollers are adjustable and it is a floating head. Also the clip frequency can be adjusted which is nice to slow down when mowing at a higher HOC.


How do you get to that HOC? I went through and checked the specs for Toro, Jacobsen, and JD. The max HOC for the JD 180 E-cut, 180SL, and 220SL according to the JD website was a max HOC of 0.875"

For the Toro 1000s, it says 1" max HOC and for the Flex, the product spec file says 1.0" HOC with high cut kit.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

I will say that I wish I had gotten a smaller mower sometimes (I have the GM1600), but mine is in fantastic condition, with the groomer option, and cuts superbly.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

I've got a Honda HRX mower where I'm able to cut on the second lowest setting which is approx 1.25". I hit the dirt if I go to the lowest setting which is approx 0.75". I'm trying to evaluate whether a reel mower is a viable option for me and what HOC would be ideal. The cultivar I have, allegedly does best between 0.5" and 1.5".

I keep looking at the 18" and 21" mowers. The 26" would be too large for me due to clearance issues.

I keep looking at the JD, Toro, and Jacobsen. I think the Jake cuts too low for my likely sustainable HOC.

Lastly, I'm unsure between brand, which is the most sustainable in terms of parts information and parts availability. I don't know how any of the brands are first-hand but JD feels a lot like Stihl where you have to go specifically to a dealer to get any parts; SOL buying online or anywhere else.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Then I'd go with the JD 220e with the hybrid engine, or the Toro 1000. I am not sure what the difference is with the Flex 21, so I couldn't recommend between the two.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> How do you get to that HOC? I went through and checked the specs for Toro, Jacobsen, and JD.


The 220E can go up to 1.42" with the standard 2" rollers no problem. Calling @g-man to confirm as he is currently mowing with one on cool season grass. Put the front roller on setting #7 and then adjust the back roller.



Movingshrub said:


> Lastly, I'm unsure between brand, which is the most sustainable in terms of parts information and parts availability. I don't know how any of the brands are first-hand but JD feels a lot like Stihl where you have to go specifically to a dealer to get any parts; SOL buying online or anywhere else.


Any JD part you could want can be purchased online from https://www.greenfarmparts.com


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> > The John Deere 180E and 220E can be set up to 1.42" bench HOC. I have no direct experience with them, but the QA5 cutting heads are the same as what is on my triplex. A couple nice things about them are you can have that High HOC and still have an aggressive bedknife attitude since both rollers are adjustable and it is a floating head. Also the clip frequency can be adjusted which is nice to slow down when mowing at a higher HOC.
> ...


The 180/220/260SL can go up to .875" with the front roller in the farthest out position and 1.06" with the front roller in the closest position (which can only be done if you don't have a groomer).


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

SCGrassMan said:


> Then I'd go with the JD 220e with the hybrid engine, or the Toro 1000. I am not sure what the difference is with the Flex 21, so I couldn't recommend between the two.


The difference between the Flex 21 and the 1000 is in how easy it is to adjust the clip rate. The Flex 21 allows you to change the clip rate by putting the drive belt on different pulley arrangements on the mower. The 1000 is adjustable via a clip kit. This is an alternative drive and reel pulley set that slows down the rotational speed of the reel. I have the clip kit on my 1000 and it makes a big difference in how well the mower performs on Centipede and Zoysia japonicas kept at 1/2" or higher. Other option for the 1000 is an 8 blade reel. Before I got truly dialed in with managing Zoysia low, I used the 8 blade reel and clip kit to maintain at 3/4-1". Now, I just mow down to 0.5 or even 0.35" if the lawn is not under stress from lack of sun. Another difference is that a Flex 21 will not mow higher than 1/2" without an alternative front roller bracket. If you put that alternative bracket on, the groomer is no longer usable. The 1000 and 1600 allows a height of cut of 1.25". Of course, if you are mowing that high, the clip kit and 8 blade reel are a good idea. I understand that the 1600 comes set up as a tee and approach mower, so the 8 blade reel is standard. The Flex 21 and 1000 come with 11 blade reels.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@Pete1313 
I want to make sure I understand the responses.
JD 180SL/220SL/260SL can go up to .875" with the front roller in the farthest out position and 1.06" 
JD 220E can go up to 1.42" - How do you get to 1.42"? or are you saying all of them max at .875 with a groomer or 1.06" without a groomer?

I was looking at page 60 and 61 of this. https://www.deere.com/en_INT/docs/html/brochures/publication.html?id=4fdbb129#60
It says 0.875 for the 180SL, 220SL, 260SL, 180E, and 220E.
With that being said, I haven't researched to see whether it changed overtime.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@Greendoc I'm at the learning stage of reel mowers. Is there a HOC transition point where the groomer is no longer beneficial?

I thought the benefit of the flex was an additional pivot point in the head (which the JD seems to have as well) versus the fixed GM 1000. I am still trying to figure out IF a reel mower is an option for my lawn, and if so, which would be best to address undulations. Once that is determined, I think the next issue would be finding the appropriate HOC, and then what number of blades on the reel best matches the target HOC.

Am I thinking about this in the right order?


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> @Pete1313
> I want to make sure I understand the responses.
> JD 180SL/220SL/260SL can go up to .875" with the front roller in the farthest out position and 1.06"
> JD 220E can go up to 1.42" - How do you get to 1.42"? or are you saying all of them max at .875 with a groomer or 1.06" without a groomer?
> ...


If this is for your Bermuda, is there any reason you'd want to cut above 1"?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I think the groomer is a beneficial tool up to 1". However, my experience is that most warm season grasses are at their best in terms of thatch management and ease of maintenance at 0.5 +/- 0.1. Exceptions to that are Seashore Paspalum and Emerald Zoysia. YMMV being where grass has a killing frost and is dormant at least 3 months out of the year. I call for a low HOC to prevent problems with thatch.

When mowing at 0.5" +/- 0.1", a flex head is not that crucial. On a golf green with all manner of mounds and hills built into it, a flex is great because it will follow the undulations precisely at that 0.10" or lower HOC. I do rather well on lawns that are horrid. They are bumpy, poorly graded lawns on clay that I mow and make look very good with a GM 1000. For your TifTuff being maintained at or near fairway height, 8 blades and a slower rotational speed on the reel is probably going to give the best quality of cut. When possible, the HOC should match but not be under the clip rate. It should also not be too far above the clip rate.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

This is a screenshot of the QA5 manual used in the 220E. With the grommer you could do 1.42in. You could do 1.8in without the groomer and a 3in roller. I also think that some brackets could be made to go higher, but you will need access to a machine shop.










I started at 1.25in and I'm slowly going down to 1in.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Good to know. John Deere allows for more range of adjustment. JD is now in the running as another mower.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

I do not believe that I will have the available free time to maintain at 0.500inch. My belief is that a real mower will give me a better quality cut than a rotary, even if I am at the same HOC.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Also, I have pecan trees. Am I going to be sharpening every time I hit a husk or nut?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> Also, I have pecan trees. Am I going to be sharpening every time I hit a husk or nut?


Probably not. That is why I cannot recommend a greens mower with bedknife mounted on spring loaded adjustment mechanisms more. A Tru-Cut or McLane hitting anything in a lawn is thrown way off, maybe even suffering a dented bedknife and reel. Greens mowers are made with the cutting blades heat treated to almost knife hardness. I have cut bolts and nails left in the grass. As for your height of cut, that is where you control your Nitrogen and maybe use a PGR.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@Greendoc The wording of your spring adjustment sentence is confusing to me.

You cannot recommend those that have a spring knife adjustment at all or you recommend them so much that you have maxed out on the amount of recommendation that you can give?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

The latter. The spring loaded knife adjustment like the one used on Toro GM mowers is what I recommend above all other mechanisms. In addition to bolts and nails, I have hit twigs, seeds, and bits of coral. In all cases, the greens mower kept on mowing. A frequent sound when I am working during the day is the sound of a Tru-Cut or McLane that has hit something. One side of the reel is now hitting the bedknife hard because a twig or small piece of gravel has been run over. Not my mower, of course. It is the lawn guy a few blocks down.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> The latter. The spring loaded knife adjustment like the one used on Toro GM mowers is what I recommend above all other mechanisms. In addition to bolts and nails, I have hit twigs, seeds, and bits of coral. In all cases, the greens mower kept on mowing. A frequent sound when I am working during the day is the sound of a Tru-Cut or McLane that has hit something. One side of the reel is now hitting the bedknife hard because a twig or small piece of gravel has been run over. Not my mower, of course. It is the lawn guy a few blocks down.


 :lol:


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

That horrible sound is also the marker of a lawn that is going to look like crap. Bedknife and reel no longer making contact evenly. So one side of the mower will leave the grass higher than the the other, in addition to shredding every single leaf.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> I've got a Honda HRX mower where I'm able to cut on the second lowest setting which is approx 1.25". I hit the dirt if I go to the lowest setting which is approx 0.75". I'm trying to evaluate whether a reel mower is a viable option for me and what HOC would be ideal. The cultivar I have, allegedly does best between 0.5" and 1.5".
> 
> I keep looking at the 18" and 21" mowers. The 26" would be too large for me due to clearance issues.
> 
> ...


Jake's can do 1.25" with the right front roller brackets, easy and cheap to acquire.

Deere has an excellent parts network, you can get setup with a dealer to drop ship parts that you look up and order online via JDParts.com. Unlike Stihl, they put their full parts catalog with breakdowns online. (Jacobsen is even easier, they will ship direct)

Both brands have very good aftermarket parts support as well via companies like R&R Products.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> The latter. The spring loaded knife adjustment like the one used on Toro GM mowers is what I recommend above all other mechanisms. In addition to bolts and nails, I have hit twigs, seeds, and bits of coral. In all cases, the greens mower kept on mowing. A frequent sound when I am working during the day is the sound of a Tru-Cut or McLane that has hit something. One side of the reel is now hitting the bedknife hard because a twig or small piece of gravel has been run over. Not my mower, of course. It is the lawn guy a few blocks down.


Thanks for clarifying. Do all of the brands in the title satisfy that spring adjustment requirement?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

MasterMech said:


> Jake's can do 1.25" with the right front roller brackets, easy and cheap to acquire.
> 
> Deere has an excellent parts network, you can get setup with a dealer to drop ship parts that you look up and order online via JDParts.com. Unlike Stihl, they put their full parts catalog with breakdowns online. (Jacobsen is even easier, they will ship direct)
> 
> Both brands have very good aftermarket parts support as well via companies like R&R Products.


Thanks for the info. I was going to write off JD just based on my assumption after dealing with Stihl.

Now I just need to find people locally who own all three brands so I can try out the different ergonomics.

Are JD, Jacobsen, and Toro favored regionally? Toro and JD seem widely available in the south where as Jacobsen wasn't a brand I had seen until I jointed TLF.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Jd online catalog and ordering is really good. Local JD golf offer a lot of help since they are used in a lot of golf course.

All listed are good brand with good reel mowers.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> > Jake's can do 1.25" with the right front roller brackets, easy and cheap to acquire.
> ...


Jacobsen was very, very popular with golf courses since their reels really perform well. I've run a fair bit of Toro golf equipment and no complaints there either. I do prefer Jake walk-mowers for the simplicity and they really are built like a tank, especially the GreensKing 500 series machines. Mine is a piece of cake to run, grab the handle/bail and you're off. No separate clutch and throttle, extra levers or cables, etc.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

MasterMech said:


> Deere has an excellent parts network, you can get setup with a dealer to drop ship parts that you look up and order online via JDParts.com. Unlike Stihl, they put their full parts catalog with breakdowns online. (Jacobsen is even easier, they will ship direct)
> 
> Both brands have very good aftermarket parts support as well via companies like R&R Products.


I've used the drop ship from dealer, R&R and greenfarmparts.com with positive results for my JD's. The 2 Deere shops near me aren't Golf dealers and can't order any parts. I called a shop 2 hours away and gave them the part # and my information, 2 days later the part was sitting on my back porch when I got home..... the third day they called me and asked for payment  grass catcher? What grass catcher?


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> Are JD, Jacobsen, and Toro favored regionally? Toro and JD seem widely available in the south where as Jacobsen wasn't a brand I had seen until I jointed TLF.


I have seen Jake mowers out on the courses around here. Would be a shame if there weren't a few, as they are manufactuered in Charlotte NC. Roughly An hour and a half from here up I85.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> > The latter. The spring loaded knife adjustment like the one used on Toro GM mowers is what I recommend above all other mechanisms. In addition to bolts and nails, I have hit twigs, seeds, and bits of coral. In all cases, the greens mower kept on mowing. A frequent sound when I am working during the day is the sound of a Tru-Cut or McLane that has hit something. One side of the reel is now hitting the bedknife hard because a twig or small piece of gravel has been run over. Not my mower, of course. It is the lawn guy a few blocks down.
> ...


I know Toro does. Not sure about the others.


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## metro424 (May 26, 2017)

Having played with a few greens mowers I've come to the conclusion that I like Jacobsens the best. Toro comes in second for me as you can choose to run just the traction drum or both the drum and reel right from the handlebars. The John Deere requires going up front and flipping a lever but the height of cut does go somewhere over an inch.

I can't notice a difference in quality of cut but then again I'm cutting centipede as high as these mowers will go(0.5in) Collecting these things sure are addictive! Maybe this season or next I'll get around to sprigging tiftgrand to have something more interesting to cut.


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## alpine0000 (Jul 25, 2017)

The Toro Greensmaster 1600 can go up to 1.25". I have mine set at 1" and am going to drop it down to around .75" next month.


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