# Seeds not germinating



## zafirovp (Apr 4, 2018)

Hello,

I am currently in Bulgaria, Eastern Europe. 8 weeks ago I sprayed everything with RoundUp and 6 weeks ago I started overseeing my lawn with the most expensive seeds in the store. The average high/low temperature in May was 20C/10C (68F/50F). There was plenty of sun and rain. After 6 weeks the seeds are still not germinating except maybe 5 percent in some areas. I haven't use any topsoil, only small amount of fertiliser.

Can you please advise me on what to do? I am starting to loose hope already. The crabgrass is starting to grow on the bare spots and the only chemicals that I can find are RoundUp and 2.4D.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

@zafirovp what type of seed did you use, or what type of grass are you growing? I may need to move this to the cool season subforum.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Where in Bulgaria? Veliko Tărnovo? Varna?


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Possible bad batch of seed? After 6 weeks I would think any type of grass seed would have germinated. Pictures of the small percentage of grass that grew?


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## zafirovp (Apr 4, 2018)

Im in Sofia, and I used mix of Tall Fescue. Actually I used two different brands and both of them are still not growing. Our lawns are green only in during the warm seasons.

Any ideas?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

zafirovp said:


> Im in Sofia, and I used mix of Tall Fescue. Actually I used two different brands and both of them are still not growing. Our lawns are green only in during the warm seasons.
> 
> Any ideas?


Okay, here in the U.S. we would classify tall fescue as a cool season turf. I will move this thread to the cool season subforum so you will get better advice.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Tall Fescue could take 2 weeks to germinate. You need to keep the seed moist during the day (not let it dry). Ideally you want soil temperatures above 10C.


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

At 6 weeks, what you have is what you'll get, unfortunately. I wouldn't expect any more seeds to germinate at this point. How frequently were you watering? Did you rough up the soil before dropping the seed? Lightly covering the seeds with peat moss or compost helps keep moisture on the seed too. How warm does it get in the summer, and does your yard have any shade? Might be able to try again if it doesn't get too hot. Another option would be to kill it all off in the summer and get ready to try again in the fall. Best of luck!


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

You said plenty of sun and rain but I'm assuming it didn't rain everyday. Did you keep the seed moist each day?


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## SJ Lawn (May 7, 2018)

What version of Round Up did you spray ??

Round Up EXTENDED version is not good to use since it can last 3-4 months.


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## ryeguy (Sep 28, 2017)

Was going to post the same thing. Your roundup should only have glyphosate in it, possibly with some diquat. If it has anything else it might contain a preemergent as well.


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

what kind of fertilizer did you use? was it a starter fert as opposed to a pre-m type? Did you apply any pre-m before the renovation?


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

I had a similar problem on a large, round area of a lot near the property border where it seemed like just nothing could ever get established there. After literally a couple years of failure and trying to figure out what the heck was going on, turned out the neighboring property had his lot treated with pre-emergent around the same time every year and heavy rains around the same time caused runoff onto the same large circular patch next to the property border. Adjusting the timing of seeding resolved it.

You can try this test to see if something might be wrong with your soil: cut a one inch deep chunk of soil from the area and place it in a pan. Don't disturb it - take the piece intact. Get some store bought topsoil and place that in another pan. This is your control. Seed both pans and keep them continuously moist, but not soaked or soggy, for two weeks.

If the control pan germinates and starts growing but your native soil doesn't, there's something wrong with your soil. If neither pan germinates, your seed is no good. If both germinate, you did something wrong when you seeded.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I dont know if it is possible to find PreM in eastern europe.

One item that does prevents grass from growing, Walnut trees (even a few years after removal).


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

g-man said:


> I dont know if it is possible to find PreM in eastern europe.
> 
> One item that does prevents grass from growing, Walnut trees (even a few years after removal).


Yes, you can get them. Flazasulfuron is one. Lots of post emergents will also have same effect for a certain amount of time. Doesn't matter. Idea is to find out if something is wrong with the soil or seed or seeding practices as a first step. Then we can move on to what the exact problem may be.

The walnut thing is interesting.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Juglone is the chemical compound in walnut trees that kills some vegetation. More info here:

https://www.extension.iastate.edu/news/2005/jul/070701.htm


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## zafirovp (Apr 4, 2018)

Well.... before 6 weeks and now. I use just ordinary glyphosate, rottory tiller, starter fertilizer and seeds.

I searched in Bulgaria, Italy and UK for pre-emergent but I can't find any. Any ideas on where to get?


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Do you have a picture of the area that did have some germination? Were you watering daily keeping the seed moist?


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

zafirovp said:


> Well.... before 6 weeks and now. I use just ordinary glyphosate, rottory tiller, starter fertilizer and seeds.
> 
> I searched in Bulgaria, Italy and UK for pre-emergent but I can't find any. Any ideas on where to get?


You don't need or want any pre-emergent right now. Put that discussion aside for now. I'll tell you where to get that when the time comes.

Can you post a close up picture of exactly what you sprayed (a picture of the front of the container showing active ingredients)?

Can you post a close up picture of the bag of fertilizer you used. Don't worry about translation, just post the picture and we will figure it out.

Can you do a germination test on the seed you used? Sow some of the seed in an indoor container of fresh, store bought soil and keep it moist until it germinates (or doesn't).

Can you do a germination test on your soil? Put some of your soil in a pan and sow seed on it, keep it moist until it germinates (or doesn't).


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## zafirovp (Apr 4, 2018)

Yes, thank you. I just bought the house. Nobody lived there for the last 3 years.

Test sample

So I already have a test sample. I took it from the same place before the RoundUp, so it is clean soil. I left it to dry out but as you can see there is very thick layer of grass. This happened only for 2 weeks.


Next is the herbicide.
On the label under Active Ingredient there is only Glyphosate 360 gr/l. I can't find the bottle but on the Internet it is listed as Glyphosate only and it is German brand.

Fertiliser



Liquid fertiliser

I don't remember well, but I think that I used this once during the third week. It is in liquid form.



This is pretty much all that I did. I don't know why the weeds are growing but the grass is not. I was thinking about soil test but it is not possible in this part of the world. The yard is full of flowers which are growing really well. The previous owner had perfect lawn years ago.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

What was your watering practices?


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## zafirovp (Apr 4, 2018)

Watering every day for 15 minutes at 8PM when not rainy.

I am thinking to spray everything again with RoundUp and to try to start over. What do you think about that. Is it late?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

If you have dirt and want a lawn, I think you will need to do that.

A few key things to do differently. Apply the round up. Disturb the top 5mm of soil. Apply the seeds, disturb some more (5mm). Then step on the seeds, yes seed to soil contact is really important.

Next you need to water more often. Something like 800, 1100 and 1600 for 5 minutes each. The idea is to keep the soil moist and never to let it dry. Once a day is not enough.


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## zafirovp (Apr 4, 2018)

I have lawn roller, actually I spend all my salary on lawn equipment but the results that I got are...

I will try to water my lawn more often. I guess short intervals but many times a day since the seeds are on the top layer?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Yes, the seed and early roots are in the top layer. The wind, sun and air temperature will dry the soil very fast.

This is a detail article from a university that describes the steps to establish a lawn from seed. They recommend watering to cover 12mm to 24mm.

https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/AY/AY-3-W.pdf


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

zafirovp said:


> Yes, thank you. I just bought the house. Nobody lived there for the last 3 years.
> 
> Test sample
> 
> ...


Ok, it looks like we can rule out the following as problems: the herbicide, fertilizer, seed, soil in seed bed. That leave basically only your technique as the likely cause.

Exactly what did you do for seeding in terms of seed-soil contact and watering amounts and schedule? Oh, nevermind, I see you already explained that, I am already a couple of replies behind. Very active thread.


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## Wolverine (Jan 17, 2018)

I have a spot in my kbg that I sprayed Certainty last year and nuked the grass. Now this spring and summer seed will not germinate. Kbg will spread but no seedlings. I would top dress then reseed.


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