# Going Low with Perennial Rye



## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

It's been a 1 month journey since I started bringing the lawn down in an attempt to level with sand, and mow sub 1". It has been some what nerve racking seeing my once very lush, green grass become more and more yellow as I slowly brought it down. Today I brought it down as low as my rotary mower would go, 1.25". Definitely some scalping and more yellowing. I mowed almost every other day in April to make sure I never chopped off too much at once. After my morning cut I applied the sand and leveled with a 48" leveling rake and the broomed in what spots still needed work.
Any tips to bring this lawn back to its dark green and keep it low? Did everything based on @wardconnor and @lawntips since their lawns are TOP NOTCH. The reel mower shows up this week so hopefully that will help. I applied a 24-5-11 spring/summer fertilizer April 1st. The plan is to hit it with ironite and podium soon. Attached are some pictures. 1st is April 8th HOC 2", 2nd April 17th HOC 1.5", 3rd and 4th May 1st HOC 1.25", 5th sanded before leveling rake, 6th all broomed in.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

I think you're probably exposing some of the crown of the plant that normally doesn't get any sunlight, therefore it has a yellowish look to it. Connor said when he cut his grass at 0.5" that it was showing some yellowing, so that's my assumption as to what you're seeing. Kinda like a mini-scalp. You've got a nice stand of turf. Don't sweat it, and it should be just fine. Looks good, and I'm confident that the reel mower will make your lines pop!


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

^^^ what he said. Keep mowing low the yellow will turn to green. I just lowered to one half inch and I definitely have some yellowing going on. It should turn green if you and I STAY with the foot firmly pressed all the way down on the pedal.

The reel mower will do wonders. Prepare for your socks to be blown right off your feet. You think I'm kidding? I'm not


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

Hahaha! Good to hear the reassurance from both of you. Of course everyone at the local nursery says you can't go below 3" with PRG.
Kind of like some of the people on your YouTube channel. Those people drive me nuts. Do they not see how perfect your lawn has been for 2 seasons. Can't fix stupid. Tomorrow I sand the back yard and hopefully FedEx can figure out how to deliver a mower


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Tell the people down in Augusta you can't keep PRG under 3" :lol: the entire golf course (other than the bent greens) is PRG!


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

rrmiller32 said:


> Hahaha! Good to hear the reassurance from both of you. Of course everyone at the local nursery says you can't go below 3" with PRG.
> Kind of like some of the people on your YouTube channel. Those people drive me nuts. Do they not see how perfect your lawn has been for 2 seasons. Can't fix stupid. Tomorrow I sand the back yard and hopefully FedEx can figure out how to deliver a mower


Yeah, many nurseries and bix-box stores give generic and incorrect info that they've heard for years and believe to be true.

How about a shot of Milorganite?


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

probasestealer said:


> rrmiller32 said:
> 
> 
> > Hahaha! Good to hear the reassurance from both of you. Of course everyone at the local nursery says you can't go below 3" with PRG.
> ...


Milorganite is also on the top of the list.

I won't even ask a question at a Home Depot or Lowes. I'm lucky if they can tell me where the bathroom is let alone have good lawn/gardening advice. The people at the local nursery are very knowledgeable but are definitely stuck inside their 3" box. LOL They also told me not to level the turf with sand. Thank god I found TLF


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## fusebox7 (Jul 27, 2017)

Another thing about PRG and the conversation of rotary vs. reel mowing... the reel will be so much better for the grass because PRG tends to shred due to the veins in the leaves. Rotary seldom will leave a nice cut which typically brown/yellow the tips anyways (regardless of height). You'll definitely have a much healthier stand mowing with a reel! :thumbup:


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

> They also told me not to level the turf with sand.


I still actually somewhat struggle with this idea with cool season turf (no concerns with warm season turf). I'm not so much concerned with layering, but do worry about the possibility of increased drought stress in the summer. I think the ideal situation would be to mix the sand with compost, or once you have leveled to simply topdress with compost and feed organically (cracked corn, alfalfa, etc). 
This would obviously vary by climate and north of the transition zone probably isn't much of a concern. However, my daughter's continue to dump their play-sand all over my (our?) yard, so we will see if that has any ill effects this summer. I just blow the huge clumps to disperse the "piles".


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Im not trying to pull this thread off the rails, but what if any circumstances mean you shouldnt use sand to level?

I am looking to reno soon and level things out, but I always hear not to put sand on clay as it will make cement. I wouldnt consider my ground clay by any means, maybe fairly deep at the 5+ inch level there is a lot of clay.

I know you need specific 'sharp' sand for leveling?


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

I think anything outside the norm of mow 1 once a week, keep you lawn long and fertilize twice a year will kill your lawn. LOL
As long as the soil stays moist it should never turn to cement.


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

My lawn did not turn to cement.


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## lawntips (Sep 7, 2017)

Cracker of a lawn! It will come good after a couple of mows. I generally like to cut it down a little bit lower than the HOC i'm aiming for then raise it up to the HOC you want. Just gives the crown of the plant a chance to repair by shooting out some fresh shoots and tillers above the damage. 
Otherwise it will adjust naturally


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

wardconnor said:


> My lawn did not turn to cement.


Some might prefer a concrete yard, no mowing and they can park there...


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

Ohhhhhhhhh? Not a bad idea&#128161;. I should try that on the clay concrete that my grass is growing on.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Alright i get the hints


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## Seeking_Turf (May 2, 2018)

rrmiller32 said:


> It's been a 1 month journey since I started bringing the lawn down in an attempt to level with sand, and mow sub 1". It has been some what nerve racking seeing my once very lush, green grass become more and more yellow as I slowly brought it down. Today I brought it down as low as my rotary mower would go, 1.25". Definitely some scalping and more yellowing. I mowed almost every other day in April to make sure I never chopped off too much at once. After my morning cut I applied the sand and leveled with a 48" leveling rake and the broomed in what spots still needed work.
> Any tips to bring this lawn back to its dark green and keep it low? Did everything based on @wardconnor and @lawntips since their lawns are TOP NOTCH. The reel mower shows up this week so hopefully that will help. I applied a 24-5-11 spring/summer fertilizer April 1st. The plan is to hit it with ironite and podium soon. Attached are some pictures. 1st is April 8th HOC 2", 2nd April 17th HOC 1.5", 3rd and 4th May 1st HOC 1.25", 5th sanded before leveling rake, 6th all broomed in.


Looking good!!! :thumbup:


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

lawntips said:


> Cracker of a lawn! It will come good after a couple of mows. I generally like to cut it down a little bit lower than the HOC i'm aiming for then raise it up to the HOC you want. Just gives the crown of the plant a chance to repair by shooting out some fresh shoots and tillers above the damage.
> Otherwise it will adjust naturally


I went as low as my rotary mower would go. I think I was at my mental limit too seeing the grass go to all hell. Definitely hit dirt a few times and lots of very unhappy patches of grass. I'll keep posting pictures as things progress.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

That's OK @wardconnor according to all the "experts" you lawn can't exist and will soon die. :lol: :shock: :lol:


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## lawntips (Sep 7, 2017)

rrmiller32 said:


> I went as low as my rotary mower would go. I think I was at my mental limit too seeing the grass go to all hell. Definitely hit dirt a few times and lots of very unhappy patches of grass. I'll keep posting pictures as things progress.


Nice, keen to see the journey!


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Looking forward to picture updates on this project.


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## Still learnin (Sep 9, 2017)

Looks awesome! I'd be a little mentally drained as well. Your lawn already looked really great.

I have a half Bermuda and half TTTF 2 acres and am "leveling" portions of both parts with sand. So I'll knkw how TTTF does with sand and clay soon. The Bermuda is already coming through over an inch of sand in one week. Crazy.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

Still learnin said:


> Looks awesome! I'd be a little mentally drained as well. Your lawn already looked really great.
> 
> I have a half Bermuda and half TTTF 2 acres and am "leveling" portions of both parts with sand. So I'll knkw how TTTF does with sand and clay soon. The Bermuda is already coming through over an inch of sand in one week. Crazy.


Thanks, I was extremely happy with the way it looked at 2" but have always wanted the baseball field looking lawn and saw it was possible with Connors lawn and few others on here. I just wasn't quite ready for ugliness that was ahead. haha. Back yard was leveled today. Pics will come.

That's crazy the bermuda is coming through an 1" of sand. I barely have .25" down


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## kevreh (Apr 3, 2018)

Regarding leveling, can the approach of using sand (maybe mixed with compost) be used on a TTTF lawn? Is there a maximum thickness you can apply at a time, and if you need to do multiple applications how long should you wait? I have a few dips here and there that cause the lawnmower to jump around a little. Always thought just using top dressing wouldn't be effect enough, the sand will provide more firmness.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

kevreh said:


> Regarding leveling, can the approach of using sand (maybe mixed with compost) be used on a TTTF lawn? Is there a maximum thickness you can apply at a time, and if you need to do multiple applications how long should you wait? I have a few dips here and there that cause the lawnmower to jump around a little. Always thought just using top dressing wouldn't be effect enough, the sand will provide more firmness.


I do know of people sometimes using a mix of like 80% sand 20% topsoil. 1/4" is the max thickness I have been told by numerous people. (that was about the only thing people agreed on.LOL) Not sure how well/easy it will work on TTTF. I mowed my lawn as low as possible before hand and noticed the areas that had longer grass, whether it was a depression in the soil or side walk would let mower blade get low, etc, took a lot more effort to get the sand to drop down into the canopy. It just wanted to sit on top and smother the grass. I got it down just took a lot more working it with a broom or my hand. Not sure on the frequency. I know you don't want to do it mid summer with TTTF. I will most likely hit again in the fall


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

Last nights sanding. Still need to work in a few spots since it got dark. Lots of ugliness back there. Sorry about the shadows. Wife's 8 months prego but still got her working.   :shock:


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## sicride (Nov 8, 2017)

Surprised there haven't been more responses to this thread. Awesome work, looking good. :thumbup: for the wifey not letting that baby lay her up


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

Good work. Your efforts WILL pay off. Spreading sand is a crazy amount of work but so worth it.

You do realize that you are heading down a rabbit hole right?


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

wardconnor said:


> Good work. Your efforts WILL pay off. Spreading sand is a crazy amount of work but so worth it.
> 
> You do realize that you are heading down a rabbit hole right?


Oh I'm down that rabbit hole already. Well aware. Hahaha. Halfway through the front lawn I knew it. Once I see those perfect green stripes it will be all worth it. I was shocked how long it took to get the sand leveled/raked into the canopy.

Unfortunately my reel mower has be stuck in customs for 7 days and was not delivered last week as tracking showed. I'll be lucky to get it this week. I really don't want to mow it again with the rotary but I might have to. Grass is growing fairly slow. Hoping the iron will kick in soon and will put down milorganite once I confirm a delivery day for the new mower.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

Been a little over a week since I leveled the front and back. Put some iron on the front 5 days ago. Today was the first mow and then milo to both front and back. I was hoping the first cut would be with my reel mower, but it's still sitting in customs (over 2 weeks now) so I used the old rotary. The grass did not grow super fast but is coming up. I did notice the mower was bouncing much less that before but still at least 1 or 2 more leveling sessions will be needed. The grass seemed to tolerate the low height cut much better that before too. I'm hoping the milo will help it out some and I'll be reel mowing sub 1" soon. It's definitely not were I want it. Needs to green up and thickin up a lot.


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## GlennBlake (Feb 28, 2018)

A significant amount of effort is required but the rewards are totally worth it. Your grass is greening nicely by the look of the photos @rrmiller32. I went from mowing at 'regulation' hoc of 3" to 0.75" in a season. I pretty much followed whatever I could gleam off the 'net including watching @wardconnor's videos. I had someone ask me today if my front lawn was real grass and a neighbour told me tonight that their household is super envious of the perfect lawn! Those kind of compliments and the self-pride makes the time, effort and expense worth it.


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

It is so worth the time money and effort for me at least. I love it. I legitimately had someone think that my grass was fake. My neighbor told me that she overheard someone talking about that fake grass 3 hours drive away from the house. She told them that it is indeed real. That is what we (me) are aiming for. I want it so nice that it looks fake.

Good work @rrmiller32and 
@GlennBlake


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## rob (May 12, 2018)

Such an inspiration guys. Looks awesome already.


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

I thought it was astro turf when i first started watching Conners videos. But I've never seen any goal post. YET.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

GlennBlake said:


> A significant amount of effort is required but the rewards are totally worth it. Your grass is greening nicely by the look of the photos @rrmiller32. I went from mowing at 'regulation' hoc of 3" to 0.75" in a season. I pretty much followed whatever I could gleam off the 'net including watching @wardconnor's videos. I had someone ask me today if my front lawn was real grass and a neighbour told me tonight that their household is super envious of the perfect lawn! Those kind of compliments and the self-pride makes the time, effort and expense worth it.
> 
> @wardconnor was the one that made realize it was possible to go. Literally everyone around my area said you have to stay at 3" or the lawn will die. It is worth the effort especially when you seeing it going in the right direction. I had numerous people ask me if my lawn was fake before I started chopping it down. I'm sure they were all thinking I was idiot, killing my almost perfect lawn by chopping it. Hopefully in another 2-3 weeks I'll have that same deep green, lush green but at 1"


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

My reel mower finally showed up today. The process of getting it was mess, but it was worth the wait. This thing cuts like a dream and looks AWESOME! Definitely a whole new feel using a self driven reel mower. My old rotary was straight push, so the lines aren't too straight but I'll get there. HOC was 1 1/8" today just to be safe. I'll be below 1" by the end of next week. Still need to throw down the iron on the back but things are looking better. Still need a darker green and a little thicker but it's going in the right direction. First couple pictures are pre-mow. I ran a couple laps without the reel moving to make sure I knew what I was doing.


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## GlennBlake (Feb 28, 2018)

Looking good @rrmiller32


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

Looks good @rrmiller32 . Go for .75 within like a week. .75 is such a nice sweet spot with low cut cool season grass. Good to see that you finally received your mower.

@GlennBlake good to hear that you are going low and getting recognized by people in your hood. It is a lot of work but it is rewarding and can be done.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

wardconnor said:


> Looks good @rrmiller32 . Go for .75 within like a week. .75 is such a nice sweet spot with low cut cool season grass. Good to see that you finally received your mower.
> 
> @GlennBlake good to hear that you are going low and getting recognized by people in your hood. It is a lot of work but it is rewarding and can be done.


.75 it is then. You were right about the reel mower, a whole other world. This rabbit hole seems to be getting deeper and deeper. Already know there's gonna be another leveling come fall. I can definitely feel the unevenness more with reel.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Looks fantastic!


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## LIgrass (May 26, 2017)

This is awesome! Nice work rrmiller.


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

Ware said:


> Looks fantastic!


+1


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

Thanks guys. Would not have come close to this without TLF and the knowledge of the members


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Looks amazing! But remember this adage


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

Colonel K0rn said:


> Looks amazing! But remember this adage


 :lol: :lol: :lol: Very true. Cheaper too and easier to fix


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

@rrmiller32 looks awesome!


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

Been working on my double wide striping and love the look. Still a work in progress but fun.
Couple questions for the "next step":
The back lawn is having this browning look, almost like a layer of thatch forming. Not sure what it's from. I did get my Rachio 3 up and running a few weeks ago and it definitely waters more than I did. Getting a lot of mushrooms too front and back. I threw down iron and milorganite about 3 weeks ago and wondering what the next step is. Wish the back would be a little thicker/denser. Growth has definitely slowed down a lot from April. Is now a good time for PGR? Weather is going to start getting consistently hot here really soon and don't want to stress the lawn.
Right now I would consider my front lawn a Triple A field, and the back maybe Double A.

The dead spots are my dog. Working on getting her to pee on the other side of the yard.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

HOC is 7/8". At least that's what the mower says. I don't have a fancy gauge to read exact.


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## lawntips (Sep 7, 2017)

Looking so good mate!!


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## LIgrass (May 26, 2017)

You can start PGR any time but it's ideal to start it before the heat comes and before the spring flush. If not it won't hurt any, IMO, and may help it store some energy for summer. 
That browning, do you think it's from dropping the HOC? or has that passed by now? 
Right now my main concern would be disease control. PRG, especially new PRG, can get overrun by disease *very *quickly when temps get consistently hot. You really gotta keep an eye on it because that discoloration may be the start of something. By any chance do you know the cultivars used? It's looking very nice overall!


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

LIgrass said:


> You can start PGR any time but it's ideal to start it before the heat comes and before the spring flush. If not it won't hurt any, IMO, and may help it store some energy for summer.
> That browning, do you think it's from dropping the HOC? or has that passed by now?
> Right now my main concern would be disease control. PRG, especially new PRG, can get overrun by disease *very *quickly when temps get consistently hot. You really gotta keep an eye on it because that discoloration may be the start of something. By any chance do you know the cultivars used? It's looking very nice overall!


I'm way past the spring flush at this point. I had some other things I was working on and let it slip. 
The browning is not from the HOC. Once I started using a reel mower it's been great. It was browning with the rotary as I lowered it but that guy has been retired for good. Can't say enough about how much better a reel mower is for the lawn.

Once the summer hits it will be consistently in the 90's with multiple days in the 100's, but it's a dry heat and typically cools down into the 60's every night. Not the humid constant heat of back east. I'm hoping that plays in my favor.

I got everything from a local sod farm so I suppose I could call them up and see if they know anything.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

The browning is continuing to spread. I took a couple soil samples to the local nursery to see if they could confirm anything. Of course I got the instant response of "you're mowing too short" and the lawn can't handle the heat. It's been 95+ the last 3 days. A lot more of the blades starting to look a little crispy.
They were impressed with the soil condition, it was moist 8+ inches. Roots were only about 3" deep. They didn't think it was any type of fungus but weren't 100%. I am going to put down another batch of Fungicide tonight, and thinking PGR and maybe some Humic later in the week. @wardconnor @lawntips any thoughts since you two are by the top gurus on short cool season grass.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

The couple of really dead spots are dog pee.


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## lawntips (Sep 7, 2017)

rrmiller32 said:


> The browning is continuing to spread. I took a couple soil samples to the local nursery to see if they could confirm anything. Of course I got the instant response of "you're mowing too short" and the lawn can't handle the heat. It's been 95+ the last 3 days. A lot more of the blades starting to look a little crispy.
> They were impressed with the soil condition, it was moist 8+ inches. Roots were only about 3" deep. They didn't think it was any type of fungus but weren't 100%. I am going to put down another batch of Fungicide tonight, and thinking PGR and maybe some Humic later in the week. @wardconnor @lawntips any thoughts since you two are by the top gurus on short cool season grass.


Could you pull out a grass blade so I can get a close look at it. Looks potentially like fungal issues to me. You should be on a fungicide program if you are cutting the short this time of year! Something like propiconizole will be a safe bet. How much are you watering? Is it humid? Mower cutting properly? What time of day do you water?

Love it how guys just blame it on short grass. How do you think we do it on a golf course without it drying out? haha, ah well, uneducated people just say what comes to mind.

If you want to hold some more moisture in the soil though i'd definitely be looking into incorporating some wetting agent into your program. Its a must with perennial ryegrass in summer if you are cutting low.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

lawntips said:


> rrmiller32 said:
> 
> 
> > The browning is continuing to spread. I took a couple soil samples to the local nursery to see if they could confirm anything. Of course I got the instant response of "you're mowing too short" and the lawn can't handle the heat. It's been 95+ the last 3 days. A lot more of the blades starting to look a little crispy.
> ...


My watering is control by Rachio, but around 1" per week maybe a little over. It goes on around 2:30AM and ends around 5:30AM. It is a pretty dry heat where I am at. We get heat but very low humidity. Mower is cutting great. Paper test it before each mow. I literally said the same thing about golf coursed to the person at the nursery. Her response was "they have lots of time and money to keep them green" I just stared at her like, uh so do I. LOL any way......

I just ordered some product yesterday, including a wetting agent and liquid iron. The Fungicide I got today has thiophanate-methyl. Should I hold off on that and just get the propiconizole? Here are some pics too.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

rrmiller32 said:


> I am going to put down another batch of Fungicide tonight, and thinking PGR and maybe some Humic later in the week. @wardconnor @lawntips any thoughts since you two are by the top gurus on short cool season grass.


Be careful putting down any PGR while you are having issues with the turf. You will want it to recover and grow thru the issue not slow it down.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Do the roots/soil typically look that dark. Maybe take a sample from a good section.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

Pete1313 said:


> rrmiller32 said:
> 
> 
> > I am going to put down another batch of Fungicide tonight, and thinking PGR and maybe some Humic later in the week. @wardconnor @lawntips any thoughts since you two are by the top gurus on short cool season grass.
> ...


 :thumbup: Makes sense.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

Pete1313 said:


> Do the roots/soil typically look that dark. Maybe take a sample from a good section.


Yes the roots/soil is that dark everywhere. I brought in 45 yards of top soil when I did the project. I took out 2 samples today, one good section one bad, and they looked the same down below. I left them at the nursery so I don't have them now.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The dog pee and the background indicates to me a different problem. The dog pee area looks dark and green and full, while the rest is lime green. Have you done a soil test? I went back thru your thread and only the first one talks about nitrogen and then some Milo. Do you have a log of what you added?

The rachio is great but don't trust their default settings. Make sure you've done an irrigation audit (in/hr) of your zones. In the summer heat I adjust the allowed depletion to 40%. This forces more frequent watering days with shorter duration. It avoids placing the lawn in too much stress.


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

I wonder if it is related to the HOC and the shock that the grass might be in from being used to being mowed tall. When I lowered my grass from 5/8 -3\4 to 1/2 it looked not great after a few days. I think that the .5 HOC for me was the lowest that the KBG wanted to tolerate it. I kept mowing but it still looked yellow. I am colorblind and the yellow and the brown look the same to me. I can not tell the difference. I mowed at .5 for a few weeks and it always kind of looked scalped. It would grow up .25 of an inch and look better then I would mow it down to .5 and it would look yellow again. It always seems to look more yellow or brown the next day or 2 days later even if I watered it good. I raised it to 5/8 and it looked much better and the yellowing seemed to diminish.. not fully but it did go down.

What HOC are you at? I may have over read that. I would try raising the mower up maybe a quarter of an inch at the most and see if that helps with the browning.

Also the inch per week is good but is it coming all at once or multiple times per week equaling 1 inch total? I find that if I i do not water it for several days in a row it would start to dry out and start to brown or yellow. Like I said the brown yellow look the same to me. I just see them as not normal so I know something is wrong. If it is a fungal issue I would say that more water might make it worse. I can not say for sure though because I have never really dealt with a fungal issue that I know of. Maybe I have and it just grew through it. I do deal with snow mold every spring but that grows right through.

Putting a fungicide down is probably a good idea. I do not know what would be the best one because I have never tried one. The one that @lawntips mentioned would probably be best. I can not say for sure.

I agree with what Pete said about holding on the PGR. It makes sense to me although I really have no education on whether or not that is true. I would think that you want it to grow like crazy to grow through it, if it is a disease.

I also have dry heat but I also do not get times into the 90s either. We might get a few days in the 90s but really not too many. I do not recognize the issue you are having. I usually see browning or yellowing as a scalp or deficient of water. I could be totally wrong about that though.

I am curious to the amount of PRG that I actually have in my lawn. I have overseed it heavily but I really do not know what is PRG and what is not PRG in my lawn. I wonder if the freeing temps would have killed some of it. Whenever I look at it up close I see boat shaped blades and I recognize them as KBG. I would love for someone who can tell the difference to look at it in person to say it it is PRG or KBG.

I would assume that the PRG is good for your area if that is what the sod companies are selling in your area.

I am curious to see how this turns out.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> The dog pee and the background indicates to me a different problem. The dog pee area looks dark and green and full, while the rest is lime green. Have you done a soil test? I went back thru your thread and only the first one talks about nitrogen and then some Milo. Do you have a log of what you added?
> 
> The rachio is great but don't trust their default settings. Make sure you've done an irrigation audit (in/hr) of your zones. In the summer heat I adjust the allowed depletion to 40%. This forces more frequent watering days with shorter duration. It avoids placing the lawn in too much stress.


I did go in and change the settings in Rachio to match my Hunter MP's for in/hr. Right now Rachio has the depletion rate set to 50%. I believe it was lower until today because I noticed the root depth was set at 6" so I changed it to 3.5".
April 1st was the 24-5-11 fertilizer, Iron went down 5/6, milo 5/12-5/13. I put down some Fungicide late April for another issue. Nothing since. 
I have not done a soil test. I tried for days to get a hold of the local university that does them with no success so I gave up.


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

See Wares video on doing a soil test. Just mail your soil to Waypoint like he did. That is easy and a quick way to get your results.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

wardconnor said:


> I wonder if it is related to the HOC and the shock that the grass might be in from being used to being mowed tall. When I lowered my grass from 5/8 -3\4 to 1/2 it looked not great after a few days. I think that the .5 HOC for me was the lowest that the KBG wanted to tolerate it. I kept mowing but it still looked yellow. I am colorblind and the yellow and the brown look the same to me. I can not tell the difference. I mowed at .5 for a few weeks and it always kind of looked scalped. It would grow up .25 of an inch and look better then I would mow it down to .5 and it would look yellow again. It always seems to look more yellow or brown the next day or 2 days later even if I watered it good. I raised it to 5/8 and it looked much better and the yellowing seemed to diminish.. not fully but it did go down.
> 
> What HOC are you at? I may have over read that. I would try raising the mower up maybe a quarter of an inch at the most and see if that helps with the browning.
> 
> ...


I've had the HOC at about 7/8" for a few weeks now and it's been great, up until about 5 days ago when it got hotter. When it was 60's-70's the grass was very happy. When I was using the rotary mower at 1.25" the lawn was not happy and looked scalped and burned. Once I got the reel mower everything changed. Even at 7/8" the lawn responded great. No scalped, burned look at all. Just thick, happy, green blades. I am thinking of doing 1.25" through the summer if I must. Watering is spread out through the week. The Rachio controller has a really good program for that. 
The sod farm is located 45 minutes from me and has similar hot weather. I do know they sell to places near the coast which much much cooler than me. Most people around here have bluegrass/fescue blends. We shall see what happens.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

wardconnor said:


> See Wares video on doing a soil test. Just mail your soil to Waypoint like he did. That is easy and a quick way to get your results.


Will do for sure!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think there is a waypoint in California. Give them a call and see what test they recommend for your zone (alkaline, acidic, etc).

Keep the rachio at 6in. You want to keep that section of soil irrigated to encourage the roots to go there. Change the allowed to 40%. That will do the same thing Connor said, more frequent.

What was the rate of the 24-x-x fertilizer?

How much milo? What rate? Do you have any other fertilizer? I would recommend 0.25lb of N/ksqft in a fast source (ammonium sulfate) to see how the lawn reacts.

How old is the lawn? This year? 3in root depth seems short.


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## DTCC_Turf (May 26, 2018)

If you want to be e sure, send a sample to a lab. This is nc state's site, but should give you an idea of what a lab in your area might be looking for.

https://turfpathology.plantpath.ncsu.edu/diagnostics-lab/how-to-submit-a-sample/


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## LIgrass (May 26, 2017)

You've got a fungal outbreak, possibly GLS (gray leaf spot) judging by the speed & look of it. Forget the nurseries, they are clueless with stuff like this. You need to get that Thiophanate-methyl down ASAP. I'm not sure propiconizole does much for GLS. https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/bp/bp-107-w.pdf


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> I think there is a waypoint in California. Give them a call and see what test they recommend for your zone (alkaline, acidic, etc).
> 
> Keep the rachio at 6in. You want to keep that section of soil irrigated to encourage the roots to go there. Change the allowed to 40%. That will do the same thing Connor said, more frequent.
> 
> ...


I think California has like 4 zones. The climates are so different here depending on location. Rachio has been switched back. Fertilizer was a 24-5-11. Not sure what the exact rate was on the milo, but 2 bags for 5,000 square feet. The backyard got it a little heavier than the front. I laid the sod in early December. I pulled some plugs back in March and from what I remember they were longer then. Could be wrong.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

LIgrass said:



> You've got a fungal outbreak, possibly GLS (gray leaf spot) judging by the speed & look of it. Forget the nurseries, they are clueless with stuff like this. You need to get that Thiophanate-methyl down ASAP. I'm not sure propiconizole does much for GLS. https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/bp/bp-107-w.pdf


I think you are right. That article sounds almost dead on with the symptoms. Luckily I have a bag of the Thiophanate-methyl. It's going down today. The only thing that is weird is we have had virtually 0 humidity, are rarely do.

I did a search and propiconizole takes care of Grey leaf too. I don't have that at my house so Thiophanate will be the one this time


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)




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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

Turfguy93 said:


>


There goes that theory. Crap! Oh well, it needed the fungicide either way.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

rrmiller32 said:


> Turfguy93 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Looks like stress to me, very short brown roots for this time of year


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## LIgrass (May 26, 2017)

If not GLS maybe regular leaf spot/melting out. The fungicide should also control that if it is, keep us updated.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

I'm definitely leaning toward some time of fungi's. If it were truly heat stress the front lawn would be looking the same. The back does stay wet longer than the front after they get watered which I imagine promotes fungi.
It could be a combo of both


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

rrmiller32 said:


> I would recommend 0.25lb of N/ksqft in a fast source (ammonium sulfate) to see how the lawn reacts.
> How old is the lawn?
> 
> Fertilizer was a 24-5-11. Not sure what the exact rate was on the milo, but 2 bags for 5,000 square feet. The backyard got it a little heavier than the front. I laid the sod in early December. I pulled some plugs back in March and from what I remember they were longer then. Could be wrong.


How many pounds of of 24-5-11? It was so long ago that this might not matter anymore.

2 bags of milo in 5k is around 0.7lb of N. Even sod needs some fertilizer help to establish. When you also add the stress of sand, reel low and heat, it yields a lawn that is stressed.

I'm interested in the results of your soil test. Mainly to know your level of P and K and pH. Do you by any chance have hard water problems?

Meanwhile, I think you should apply more nitrogen to see how the lawn reacts. Take your soil samples first, then I would apply a simple 10-10-10 @ 2.5lb/ksqft. This will give you some phosphorous for root development, potassium that should help with heat stress and nitrogen for grow. Dont go down in your HOC.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

The green shoots you have look very healthy with no lesions, if it were active fungus you should see it on the green leaves. I'm with @g-man throw down some quick releae nitrogen and water it in real good


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> rrmiller32 said:
> 
> 
> > I would recommend 0.25lb of N/ksqft in a fast source (ammonium sulfate) to see how the lawn reacts.
> ...


Here's a picture of the label for the fert. I put down about 25lbs of it. I did put down a starter fertilizer before laying the sod in December, then nothing until this 24-5-11 in March.
Not much of a hard water issue here. What soil temp range am I hoping for? Not lowering the HOC, if anything maybe going up 1/4"


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

15-15-15 ok? @g-man

No 10-10-10 anywhere around me


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

15-15-15 is good too. The rate would be 1.6lb/ksqft = 8.3lb for your 5k lawn.

This rate will yield 0.25lb of N, 0.25lb of P and 0.25lb of K. If it reacts correctly, then you could apply more.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

15-15-15 went down tonight on the back. Fungicide went down yesterday on the back and 1 section of the front. It will be interesting to see if there's any difference between the front sections. The front looks pretty good so it might be tough to see a difference. Weather is in the low 80's until Monday so that should help but then we're getting high 90's to 100 for a week


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Did you get to sample the soil?


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> Did you get to sample the soil?


I pulled the plugs but have to ship them out. Not sure how long the process takes to get results back


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

I can't really say for sure things are getting better, but they are not getting worse. It does seem like there's a little more growth going in the back after the 15-15-15. With much disappointment I decided to raise the HOC 1.125" hoping that might help a little through the heat coming up. 
Double wide diagonal Friday. I'm not sure I'll ever single stripe again. LOL
Reinforcements arrived Friday night. Talstar, humic, and fungicide all went down on the front Saturday. I didn't do any iron since it's really green as is. It was my first attempt with a liquid app so we'll see what happens. 
Today will be backyards turn but without fungicide since I threw down granular last week, and adding the iron since it's not as green as the front.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

I should be getting back my soil test results this week too. That will be posted as soon as I get them


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

After just 1 day I have made 2 conclusions.
1. Liquid Iron is way better than granular. Grass is already noticeably greener after just 24 hours.
2. Talstar insecticide is amazing. Yesterday my lawn was filled with bugs and little nats/flies ankle to knee high every step I took. Today, nothing!

Hopefully over the next week the fungus will die off and go away.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Interesting I may need to invest in some liquid iron for my rye and see how it turns out, my back yard is honestly so damn blue for being PRG though even just from Milo i dont know how much darker it can can but im willing to try.

Probably a good idea on the HOC, we're about a week delayed from you guys in Cali on the heat wave coming...says 100F early next week which is very early, im hoping its a fluke and doesnt stick around...


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

probasestealer said:


> > They also told me not to level the turf with sand.
> 
> 
> I still actually somewhat struggle with this idea with cool season turf (no concerns with warm season turf). I'm not so much concerned with layering, but do worry about the possibility of increased drought stress in the summer. I think the ideal situation would be to mix the sand with compost, or once you have leveled to simply topdress with compost and feed organically (cracked corn, alfalfa, etc).
> This would obviously vary by climate and north of the transition zone probably isn't much of a concern. However, my daughter's continue to dump their play-sand all over my (our?) yard, so we will see if that has any ill effects this summer. I just blow the huge clumps to disperse the "piles".


I think this remains a related topic because mowing low requires a flat lawn. 

I rhink along the same lines as you and on my own lawn I've used dry mason sand mixed with an equal volume of peat. I use a half yd. cement mixer I happen to have (doesn't everyone have a cement mixer?) to blend it. Could also be mixed in a wheelbarrow or some other large open container by hand but would be a lot of extra work.

The mix of dry sand and peat does flow through an ordinay broadcast spreader. I do a little each time (I'd estimate I spread about 1/4 cubic yd. / 1,000 each application). The even broadcast of the spreader combined with the natural tendency of irrigation and rain to move the stuff from high to low spots results in a pretty darn flat lawn with good surface drainage and moisture holding ability.

I've heard a lot of peat can tend to lower ph. I don't have that issue.

The mix of sand and peat is not an original invention. In the "olden days" some golf greens used this for their root zone.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Interesting I may need to invest in some liquid iron for my rye and see how it turns out, my back yard is honestly so damn blue for being PRG though even just from Milo i dont know how much darker it can can but im willing to try.
> 
> Probably a good idea on the HOC, we're about a week delayed from you guys in Cali on the heat wave coming...says 100F early next week which is very early, im hoping its a fluke and doesnt stick around...


It's pretty crazy, it's even darker today. It is kind of expensive relative to other things we put on our lawns. I do know if you use too much the lawn will almost turn grey. If you have a super dark green right now and like it I would hold of until it starts to lighten up or turn yellow. It's amazing stuff though. 
The heat is officially here for us. Hopefully it dies out before it gets up to you


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

Soil results came back. Not 100% sure how to read them but it looks pretty good I think


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Looks good. Ph is a little on the high side.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

Delmarva Keith said:


> Looks good. Ph is a little on the high side.


What's considered "Good"?


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

rrmiller32 said:


> Delmarva Keith said:
> 
> 
> > Looks good. Ph is a little on the high side.
> ...


According to Penn State (don't take my word for it  ), 6.0 to 7.2 is good for PRG and optimum production (assuming production correlates with plant health which is a reasonable assumption) is between 6.0 to 7.0.

I wouldn't do anything about the slight alkalinity other than to be aware of it when making decisions. For example, don't shy away from sulfate forms of nutrients when you decide what to apply.


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

I've learned a ton things over the last 3 months and still been confused on plenty. My front lawn is probably a 9 out of 10. It looks good. My back lawn has been more high maintenance. Both have the same soil, same sod, same sun exposure, same irrigation, and same fertilizer/maintenance schedule. Ever since spring hit the back has never looked as good as the front, close at times but never as good. Now in the dog days of summer the front is amazing and the back is riddled with fungus and disease, despite a consistent fungus program. I was a little late to catch the first fungus outbreak but got it under control. Since then I have kept up on the program but the lawn keeps getting worse day by day. I have cut back significantly on the watering time for the back (almost half) in hopes that could be the major issue. What's the best way to grow through the fungus? Do I just wait until Fall for a over seed?


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