# Honda vs Toro walk behind



## Midsoutherner (Aug 25, 2020)

Hey everyone! I just discovered this forum a few days ago and this is my first post here. I'm excited to get my hands dirty in the new lawn I have. We just moved into a new house (built in 2001) and it got great looking grass that I want to learn how to take care of properly. Ive never had a lawn I felt like I had a chance at making look good so I have very little experience.

TL;DR Is the Honda HRX $200 better than the HRN and is the Toro Super Recycler $100 better than the Honda HRN in terms of mulching Bermuda grass?

That said, I live in NC and I am pretty sure I have Bermuda grass and possibly some other stuff mixed in from previous owners throwing random seed down. I'm not totally sure though. It grows really fast! I currently have a hand me down lawn mower. A Troy bilt basic mulching mower with a Honda engine. It runs reasonably well but this grass is really killing it. I put a new blade on it last week and it does better but I'm cutting down to 2" and on most passes I can't make it all the way down to the end of the yard without bogging down and dying. Maybe I'm just cutting it too low and not often enough. The other issue I have and really it's my largest problem is that it leaves huge clumps of cut up grass everywhere. It could be that since I'm only cutting it once a week it's getting too tall but it this point I can't cut it more and my 10 year old son can't push the mower through the grass.

So I'm looking at replacing the mower with a self propelled that is an upgrade from what I have(I want it to do a better job mulching) and so maybe my son can cut the grass so we can get it cut more than once a week. I'm kind of stuck between 3 mowers. I'm looking at a Honda HRN or HRX and a Toro super recycler. It seems that all 3 of these would be a good upgrade over what I have but it's hard to find good solid info on their actual capabilities. I saw a video that the lawn care nut made where he had a kid run a standard toro recycler through his yard and it left a ton of clippings behind. Then he ran his super recycler through right next to it and there was almost nothing left behind. I've never seen such a contrast!

He also has done a few videos comparing the SR to a Honda HRX and they had pretty similar performance with a slight edge to the SR from what I could tell, especially from a price stand point. I have had a hard time finding info on the HRN series but it has the same blade system. Almost everyone reviewed the HRX.

So now to my questions. I know there are a number of differences between a HRX and HRN but the only difference that I can see changing the over all cut quality is the deck. I can't really see that much of a difference between either when it comes to that. Is there a difference? Does anyone have a HRN that can tell me if it leaves a ton of clippings behind?

The SR is of course more in line with the HRX but is the SR $100 better than the HRN? I do like that with the Briggs motor you can store it upright but that alone isn't worth $100. The mulching performance is the highest priority for me.

Thank you for reading this far. I may be over thinking this but I've never spent this much on a mower and I need to to perform and make me feel it was worth the investment.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

I have a SuperRecycler (used on Kentucky Bluegrass, mind you) and the size of the mulched clippings is truly remarkable.

If you have a sharp blade and keep the underside clean, the clippings are the size of coarse grind coffee.


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## Midsoutherner (Aug 25, 2020)

Thank you for the reply. I don't expect anyone to own all 3 of these mowers. This is the kid of input I'm looking for. Whatever your experience is with any of these.


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## soupy01833 (Aug 10, 2020)

I just bought an HRN and it mulches incredibly well. I was going to buy the HRX but went for the quick in stock one at HD. Not sure the HRX is $200 more unless you want the drive speed fixed( not needed imho) and the bigger moltor or the lexite body as opposed to steel.


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

The Lawn Care Nut did a side by side comparison of the Honda versus Toro mulching in his lawn. The Toro left less clumping as I recall. I never see clumps left behind from my own Toro Super Recycler.


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## Midsoutherner (Aug 25, 2020)

soupy01833 said:


> I just bought an HRN and it mulches incredibly well. I was going to buy the HRX but went for the quick in stock one at HD. Not sure the HRX is $200 more unless you want the drive speed fixed( not needed imho) and the bigger moltor or the lexite body as opposed to steel.


That was one of my big question marks with the Hondas. Thank you.

*Edit*
What is your HOC?


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## Midsoutherner (Aug 25, 2020)

Lawn Noob said:


> The Lawn Care Nut did a side by side comparison of the Honda versus Toro mulching in his lawn. The Toro left less clumping as I recall. I never see clumps left behind from my own Toro Super Recycler.


I saw that video. That was a great comparison. What kind of grass do you cut and what is your HOC?


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

I like my Toro, but make sure you check out the Super Recycler Rant thread to get some more information.

Check out my journal for examples of cut quality.


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## soupy01833 (Aug 10, 2020)

I have bermuda and right now cutting at 2 inches


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## Meximusprime (Jun 21, 2019)

I bought my HRX in summer 2019 when I started cutting my bermuda close to an inch. Reason I went with the HRX and not the HRR which the HRN replaced is ability to cut lower and scalp at 3/4. I think the HRN lowest 2 cut settings are 1 and 1.75.

The HRX allowed me to scalp at 3/4 and maintain at 1.25 and the cut is great. Another feature was being able to mulch/bag at different settings via lever setting but I mostly use full mulch. I eventually moved to a reel this year but I use my HRX for the dirty work.


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## soupy01833 (Aug 10, 2020)

Honda engines are just more reliable as well. So that is something to think about


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

soupy01833 said:


> Honda engines are just more reliable as well. So that is something to think about


My SR has a Honda engine.


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## soupy01833 (Aug 10, 2020)

Well that is a good thing. It is hard to wrong with a toro or Honda. they are both great machines


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

Midsoutherner said:


> Lawn Noob said:
> 
> 
> > The Lawn Care Nut did a side by side comparison of the Honda versus Toro mulching in his lawn. The Toro left less clumping as I recall. I never see clumps left behind from my own Toro Super Recycler.
> ...


Tall fescue at 4".


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## Midsoutherner (Aug 25, 2020)

Meximusprime said:


> I bought my HRX in summer 2019 when I started cutting my bermuda close to an inch. Reason I went with the HRX and not the HRR which the HRN replaced is ability to cut lower and scalp at 3/4. I think the HRN lowest 2 cut settings are 1 and 1.75.
> 
> The HRX allowed me to scalp at 3/4 and maintain at 1.25 and the cut is great. Another feature was being able to mulch/bag at different settings via lever setting but I mostly use full mulch. I eventually moved to a reel this year but I use my HRX for the dirty work.


I didn't realize there was a big difference in the 
cut heights. I think part of my problem right now is that I don't have the time to cut the grass as often as is needed. I'm maintaining it at 2 inches but it seems like most people are cutting their Bermuda lower, like you do.

When you cut at 1.25 does the HRX leave behind a lot of clippings? Besides not being self propelled, that's my biggest problem with my current Troy Bilt. Huge clumps of grass left behind. My kids are in the backyard playing a lot and they track in a bunch of grass because of it and I'm trying to find the best solution in my budget to reduce that.


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## Midsoutherner (Aug 25, 2020)

soupy01833 said:


> Honda engines are just more reliable as well. So that is something to think about


I feel like I'm leaning towards an HRN unless I find a great deal on an SR. Maybe some deals will come around near the end of the season.


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## Meximusprime (Jun 21, 2019)

Midsoutherner said:


> I didn't realize there was a big difference in the
> cut heights. I think part of my problem right now is that I don't have the time to cut the grass as often as is needed. I'm maintaining it at 2 inches but it seems like most people are cutting their Bermuda lower, like you do.
> 
> When you cut at 1.25 does the HRX leave behind a lot of clippings? Besides not being self propelled, that's my biggest problem with my current Troy Bilt. Huge clumps of grass left behind. My kids are in the backyard playing a lot and they track in a bunch of grass because of it and I'm trying to find the best solution in my budget to reduce that.


The HRX did not leave clumps of clippings behind. I'm a believer in the twin blade system Honda utilizes. Of course I was cutting at least every 3 days.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

I like the cut quality with my Honda mower.

I bag clippings most of the time, but it mulches very well too.

I have never owned a Toro, but it seems to me from comments from Toro owners here that the Super Recycler cuts better than the lower priced Toros.

I vote Honda.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)




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## botnik (Aug 17, 2020)

I had a Super Recycler for something like 12 years. When I wasn't able to mow regularly and the grass got tall, it would bog down. The Personal Pace thing is nice.

I upgraded to an HRX with the plastic deck. The biggest difference I see is that the Toro has one blade and the clippings fly around under the deck and get mulched up. The problem (problem?) with the HRX is that it has 2 blades (4 cutting edges) connected to the one centre drive shaft and the airflow doesn't seem to lift the clippings as much, but rather there's a strong circular airflow. Because I mow at 4" and the grass is easily blown around, the grass gets blown horizontally and may be lying down instead of standing up, resulting in you having to go over the grass certain ways so that the direction of rotation of the blade is such that it blows the grass that may be lying down a bit up, so that it gets cut.

For example, if you have grass that is laying down towards you as you walk along, you will want the left side of the mower to go over that grass, because looking from the top, the blades rotate clockwise, and the airflow will blow that grass so that it is close to standing upright when it gets cut.

My HRX has that Versamow adjustment. I don't use it. I use either full mulch or full bag. And the only time I bag is if I've been on vacation and there's too much height to mulch. I've had the Honda for a few years and have never used the bag.

The Toro had the squishy button to prime the fuel system before starting. It was pretty reliable. I found that it would start when it was cold (just taken out of the shed) and when it was hot (when I had stopped the engine to move something out of the way) but between these two points, sometimes it was hard to start. The Honda doesn't have the squishy button and starts reliably on the first pull regardless of engine temperature.

It's kind of a wash. If your grass stands upright strongly, either mower would be great. If you don't wait too long between cuts, and you don't cut wet grass, and you keep the blades sharp, either mower would be great.

The Toro had the deck where I could hook up a garden hose and run the mower, and it was supposed to clean the deck. I tried it a couple times. To me it seemed dumb. If you use you end up with wet clumps on your lawn or driveway that you now have to clean up.

The Honda's biggest problem is the two blades that create the powerful horizontal blowing, that blows the grass horizontal as you're trying to cut it. I am always at full throttle, but I wouldn't use anything less.

Edit: Actually I think I've used Versamow once. There was too much height to mulch, and would have resulted in clumps coming out from the back of the mower. So I adjusted the Versamow to mostly mulch but to bag a little bit. I left the bag in the shed and just mowed like that, and it resulted in mulching, and a little bit of clippings coming out the back When you have the big opening on the back of the mower open, even just a little bit, it allows some grass to escape, and is a much reduced load on the engine. And after I mowed like that, I just closed the Versamow to full mulch again and went quickly over the lawn again to completely mulch the little bit that came out the back.


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## Midsoutherner (Aug 25, 2020)

botnik said:


> I had a Super Recycler for something like 12 years. When I wasn't able to mow regularly and the grass got tall, it would bog down. The Personal Pace thing is nice.
> 
> I upgraded to an HRX with the plastic deck. The biggest difference I see is that the Toro has one blade and the clippings fly around under the deck and get mulched up. The problem (problem?) with the HRX is that it has 2 blades (4 cutting edges) connected to the one centre drive shaft and the airflow doesn't seem to lift the clippings as much, but rather there's a strong circular airflow. Because I mow at 4" and the grass is easily blown around, the grass gets blown horizontally and may be lying down instead of standing up, resulting in you having to go over the grass certain ways so that the direction of rotation of the blade is such that it blows the grass that may be lying down a bit up, so that it gets cut.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the reply. I've pretty much settled on the SR. Right now tractor supply has the two they offer at 10% off so as long as I can find one here locally I'll probably be getting one tomorrow.

I usually cut just once a week right now so I'm a good bit above the 1/3 rule so I may still end up with some clumping but with the personal pace and easier starting (they gauruntee its starts in two pulls, but usually only needs one) I should be able to get my son out there once a week also so we can keep up with things better. I just don't have the time (or daylight) to really keep up with how fast it grows right now. Im convinced that my current Troy Bolt has had a bent crank since I've owned it but it was a hand me down and I haven't had the lawn to justify a replacement until now.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

Midsoutherner said:


> I should be able to get my son out there once a week also so we can keep up with things better.


Definitely it is possible, but if he's anything like mine, he may miss some spots. Still helpful.


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## botnik (Aug 17, 2020)

ionicatoms said:


> Midsoutherner said:
> 
> 
> > I should be able to get my son out there once a week also so we can keep up with things better.
> ...


I'm currently able to keep up with the mowing myself without enlisting my son, but I'd like to have my hair cut by someone older than 13, just for a little variety. I'll say the haircuts have improved from the ones I got in March. Yes he did miss some spots.


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## botnik (Aug 17, 2020)

Just a note on the plastic deck. The Honda is the first plastic deck I've owned. I have a lot of rough outside curves I need to mow against. With the mowers with metal decks, I just had a lot of rash on the sides of the mower. But it looks like the plastic deck wears away much more quickly. See attached photos. I've had this mower 2-3 years. I use the string trimmer only every 2-3 mows, so I always take the mower right up to the little wall.

I guess eventually I'll have to bolt a thick strip of aluminum or something on there.

The other side of the mower looks the same. But I didn't take a picture of it because you're not supposed to tip the mower to that side.


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## BadDogPSD (Jul 9, 2020)

botnik said:


> Just a note on the plastic deck. The Honda is the first plastic deck I've owned. I have a lot of rough outside curves I need to mow against. With the mowers with metal decks, I just had a lot of rash on the sides of the mower. But it looks like the plastic deck wears away much more quickly. See attached photos. I've had this mower 2-3 years. I use the string trimmer only every 2-3 mows, so I always take the mower right up to the little wall.
> 
> I guess eventually I'll have to bolt a thick strip of aluminum or something on there.
> 
> The other side of the mower looks the same. But I didn't take a picture of it because you're not supposed to tip the mower to that side.


Plastic vs concrete will lose pretty much every time. I'd use the line trimmer along the retaining wall or live with the taller grass on the edge.


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## botnik (Aug 17, 2020)

BadDogPSD said:


> Plastic vs concrete will lose pretty much every time. I'd use the line trimmer along the retaining wall or live with the taller grass on the edge.


I do use a string trimmer, but only every 2-3 mows. It gives me a 6" to 12" (depending on how worn the line is at that point) trimmed swath, and I also use the trimmer to cut the tight little areas like in the corners or tight inside curves that I can't get into with the mower.

I guess if I were to use the string trimmer every time I mow, I wouldn't have to rub the mower against the bricks. But it's way easier to skip the string trimming half the time. Plus, I have to change the head between the string trimmer and the blade edger in order to use the string trimmer (I use the blade edger every mow). Not a big deal, but just another thing to do.


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## Midsoutherner (Aug 25, 2020)

botnik said:


> Just a note on the plastic deck. The Honda is the first plastic deck I've owned. I have a lot of rough outside curves I need to mow against. With the mowers with metal decks, I just had a lot of rash on the sides of the mower. But it looks like the plastic deck wears away much more quickly. See attached photos. I've had this mower 2-3 years. I use the string trimmer only every 2-3 mows, so I always take the mower right up to the little wall.
> 
> I guess eventually I'll have to bolt a thick strip of aluminum or something on there.
> 
> The other side of the mower looks the same. But I didn't take a picture of it because you're not supposed to tip the mower to that side.


That's some pretty bad "road rash" you have there. I didn't think about that being a potential problem but I wasn't going to be able to spend as much as the HRX costs this time around anyways.

It was actually pretty difficult to find any walk behinds at all. I did find a SR at a local toro dealer though. It has the blade stop feature but got it for the same price as a regular one so I'm pretty happy about that. I still question whether or not I should have gotten the larger engine standard SR. I noticed that the one with the blade stop doesn't have the same under deck design as the ones that don't. The plate in the middle that is supposed to have the little "wings" or whatever they call them isn't there because the clutch for the blade stop sticks down into that area.
I don't know how to feel about it. And I'm also not sure of what the return policy is at this place. I domt know how much of a difference, if any, it makes but it's bugging me. I may try and return it and get the larger engine at tractor supply.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

Midsoutherner said:


> I noticed that the one with the blade stop doesn't have the same under deck design as the ones that don't. The plate in the middle that is supposed to have the little "wings" or whatever they call them isn't there because the clutch for the blade stop sticks down into that area.
> I don't know how to feel about it. And I'm also not sure of what the return policy is at this place. I domt know how much of a difference, if any, it makes but it's bugging me. I may try and return it and get the larger engine at tractor supply.


@DIY Lawn Guy replaced his stock blade with the atomic blade on his Spin Stop model. Details posted to https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=187418#p187418.


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## Midsoutherner (Aug 25, 2020)

@ionicatoms

Thank you for posting that! That's exactly my issue. According to toro the spin stop system provides the same effect as the accelerators do. That's what the engineers say anyways. I don't buy it but they wouldn't do anything for me. The local dealer is willing to exchange my 20383 for something else I order through the toro website for $50 but I don't know if it's worth paying that much.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

Did you get the 20383 or the 21383? Jake the Lawn Kid did a review on the 21383 and he seemed pretty impressed with it; not sure you're missing much if so.

EDIT: I looked at the drawings for both models; they look functionally identical to me. I assume Jake's review of the cutting performance would be applicable to both versions.


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## Midsoutherner (Aug 25, 2020)

I have the 20383 right now. The rep at the dealer I talked to today confirmed that after studying the parts diagrams and looking at the 21383 they have in stock they are identical.

I'm planning to go the exchange route to get the 21386. I really should have done that to begin with. I'm sure you are right about the cut quality between the models. All of the SRs use the same blade, but I'm really after the best possible mulching and I just don't believe that the spin stop system could create the same effect as the accelerators do. Also, imo the clutch system is another thing to fail at some point down the line on top of any other wear and tear.


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