# Hebicide buying plans for newbie



## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

My Sprayer's Plus 105ex backpack sprayer should arrive next week. Of course I don't have anything to spray yet. For a newbie learning on a bermuda lawn, what order would you buy and spray to control weeds? Please correct me on sources, brands, bulk sizes, etc. for the best bang for buck...

I want to spray the most forgiving treatment first. So I'm thinking the Pre-m is safest to learn on, correct?

#1) Quali-Pro Prodiamine 4L 2.5gal at about $260 (Amazon: Lawn & Pest Control Supply)
OR
Quali-Pro Dithiopyr 1 Gal at about $230 (Amazon: Pendelton Turf Supply)

Obviously, I only need one Pre-M and the bermuda consensus seems to be Prodiamine. It also seems to be my best choice money-wise. But I've heard that alternating Prodiamine and Dithiopyr may work well, so I may buy both eventually. Or is there another type of Pre-M the should be rotated with bermuda?

Anyway, once I have sprayed Pre-M, I plan to buy and use the Bermuda Triangle...

#2) Celsius WG 10 oz. at about $110 (Lawn & Pest Control Supply)

#3) Certainty 1.25 oz at about $87 (Amazon: Lawn & Pest Control Supply)

I plan to blanket spray Celsius since my yard has about every weed there is. I eventually plan to spot-spray Certainty on the sedges. I'll get some PGR and learn about that next year. Baby steps for now.

Thanks in advance for advice!


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## FlaDave (Jul 10, 2018)

For the pre-em you could use prodiamine 65 wdg, at $65-70 for 5lbs that should cover your 14000 sq ft for 6-7 years or so.


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## Ahab1997 (Jun 30, 2018)

You could save a little money and get the WDG (wettable dry granule) version of Prodiamine; something like this: https://www.domyown.com/prodiamine-65-wdg-generic-barricade-p-2495.html

That will be enough prodiamine for years and years, even at your lawn size.

You could also probably back off on the quantity of dithiopyr. You can get 64oz jugs for half the price, and that'll last you for a long time as well. Also, are you absolutely certain you need both types of Pre-M? Maybe start with Prodiamine, see how that goes, then expand to other mechanisms of action in the future.

It is a little late in the year from Pre-M application, but... as you've probably read in the Bermuda Bible, the best time to apply (if you haven't already), is NOW 

If your lawn really needs a blanket weed app, then it is hard to go wrong with Celsius. 10 oz of Celsius will also last a LONG time. You'll probably be able to transition into spot-treat mode and use much less after your first blanket app. Celsius is not fast acting, so be patient with the first blanket app. Give it a month to see how it really goes.

If you want to save cash, and only have a small amount of sedge to deal with, look into the small packs of SedgeHammer. They're excellent for spot treatments of sedge.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

So it sounds like I'm shopping for volume without looking at how long said quantity will last me. Thanks!

Are most Pre-M more forgiving than Post-M? My intuition is that Pre-M is harder to kill my lawn and flowers with. I know it's off season for Pre-M, but it can't hurt assuming I don't screw up big time. Once I give the Pre-M a while to settle, I can then put down fert and watch the bermuda and existing weeds go crazy. That's when I hit 'em with Celcuis. Does that approach make any sense?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Worst situation of over applying prodiamine is it last longer than you forecasted. The objective is to get even coverage of product over the entire lawn.


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## FlaDave (Jul 10, 2018)

pre-em shouldn't hurt anything if you are applying at 3-6 month rates and spraying it evenly. You could throw the fert down at the same time too since they both need to be watered in. You could then at anytime after that(even the same day) do your blanket app of celsius.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

Great! That sounds like exactly what I wanted. Learn to DIY without killing myself or the lawn.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

hsvtoolfool said:


> Great! That sounds like exactly what I wanted. Learn to DIY without killing myself or the lawn.


While you have nothing to spray it is a great time to calibrate your sprayer. I don't have a sprayers plus but I assume it came with a fan tip nozzle and an adjustable nozzle. You will want to know how much water you are spraying per thousand square feet with each nozzle when it comes time to use your soon to be purchased items. Easiest way is to fill the sprayer with 2 gallons of water. Mark off 1000 square feet on your driveway or street. Walk at a comfortable pace and spray the entire area. Overlap slightly. When you are done see how much water is left. Subtract this from 2 and that is how much water you used in 1000 sq ft. Do it several times until you are comfortable with the pace. Ideally you would be close to 1 gallon of water used but if you are a little above or below it's ok. For the adjustable tip you want to be spraying a little more than a mist. Larger droplets are good for the pre-em.


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## rhanna (Jun 7, 2017)

If you go with Celsius you'll want to buy a digital scale. It doesn't take very much per 1000sq. Ft

You might want tracker dye also just know to be careful with it, you don't want to get it on your skin unless you want to look like a smurf. Read about surfactant and when to use it when not to use it.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Read this over as well. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=33

You will not want to keep those nozzles the sprayers plus comes with


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

1. Fertilizer (feed the bermuda to compete with the weeds)
2. Prodiamine WDG ($70)
3. Celsius ($120)
4. Glyphosate concentrate ($20) - with the above you will use very little of this.
5. A product specific to the weed that isn't being controlled via 1-4.


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## grassland (Mar 7, 2019)

Read the posts about Teejet nozzles and sprayer wands if you haven't done so. The nozzles will have different outputs which will affect your walking speed and application rates.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12&hilit=teejet+nozzle


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@walk1355 had some glyphosate he was giving away and lives in the area. @hsvtoolfool


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

Wow! Thanks everyone. I'll try to take these in semi-random order...



rhanna said:


> If you go with Celsius you'll want to buy a digital scale.


I've got a cheap Harbor Freight digital scale, but I don't know how sensitive it is. I'll pull it out and look at it.

Is there a consensus on the best scale for Celius measuring? And the best source for a low price? I remember it was a royal pain shopping for that scale locally. I was shocked that places like Bed Bath & Beyond didn't have any gram/oz scales for dieters. The HF scale was an accidental discovery. It works okay for fertilizer, but I'm not sure it does milligrams.



Movingshrub said:


> walk1355 had some glyphosate he was giving away and lives in the area.


Thanks a lot for letting me know about walk1355's generous offer. but I have plenty of glpho. Not to mention some Crossbow to handle suckers from Crepe Myrtles removed during my front lawn remodel. Three years later and the Alien beasties are still popping up here and there. I let 'em get about ankle-high with leaves and then paint with some straight Crossbow... takes 'em down fast.

Glypho has always been my go-to weed killer in mulch beds and around walkways. But I recently put together a Harbor Freight weed burner with the grill propane tank riding on an old hand truck. Boy that's fun to use! And Loud! It works great on spurge on walkways and out at the curb. Plus any bermuda that puts runners into my paver sand.



CenlaLowell said:


> You will not want to keep those nozzles the sprayers plus comes with


In the long run, I agree. I've been following that TeeJet thread, although it's over my head right now.

Is there a consensus here that the stock 105Ex fan tip nozzles are truly awful? From what I've seen on YouTube, they spray pretty close to a TeeJet, if perhaps a bit too fine. I expect I'll hot-rod the wand and nozzles next year.

Unless you know those stock 105Ex fan tips are absolutely horrible, I'll just pick one that looks the least dangerous and use it to learn on once the sprayer arrives next week.



TN Hawkeye said:


> ....I assume it came with a fan tip nozzle and an adjustable nozzle.


I think it has 3 nozzles: 1 brass adjustable and two different TeeJet-like fan sprays.

And thanks for the hints. Yeah, I'm watching tons of videos about calibrating and mixiing and such.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

hsvtoolfool said:


> Is there a consensus on the best scale for Celius measuring? And the best source for a low price?


Plz see the Bermuda Triangle thread.


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## testwerke (Apr 4, 2019)

hsvtoolfool said:


> Unless you know those stock 105Ex fan tips are absolutely horrible, I'll just pick one that looks the least dangerous and use it to learn on once the sprayer arrives next week


I have the 105ex but I didn't use any of the nozzles out of the box simply because of the general consensus about Teejet nozzles. The XR11004 drops right in the 105ex with no other parts needed. The AI nozzle would require the appropriate cap and QuickJet body.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

About the nozzles theres a bunch more information on teejets in this forum. Calibrating, width, distance, height, etc are all here to learn. It's very easy to over spray something like Celsius and destroy your lawn. If I'm not mistaken @TN Hawkeye done this last year. I know the money spent can be overwhelming, but try not to be penny wise and dollar foolish.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

dfw_pilot said:


> Plz see the Bermuda Triangle thread.


Thanks, I'll search there.



CenlaLowell said:


> It's very easy to over spray something like Celsius and destroy your lawn.


Yikes! Well now I'm spooked. Believe me, I've not been scrimping this year. It's just a lot on a newbie all at once. If the consensus is don't spray Celcius without the correct TeeJet, then I'll heed yall's advice. Thanks!

Do you think I'll be okay spraying Prodiamine with a stock 105Ex fan tip nozzle? Less critical perhaps? I planned to spray that Pre-M first along with fert, water them in well, then come back a week or three later with Celcius. That would give me time to research and buy the right TeeJets.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Don't sweat the prodiamine application. Keep in mind plenty of people apply a granual, with prodiamine attached, with a fertilizer speeder.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

hsvtoolfool said:


> dfw_pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Plz see the Bermuda Triangle thread.
> ...


Yeah prodiamine is no problem you can spray it with the stock tips. Whenever your spraying a herbcides Celsius, tnex, etc you want it to be as a precise as possible.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Dithiopyr and prodiamine both have the same mode of action (MOA). Would recommend to use two different modes of action. A few options would be princep, Isoxaben, Specticle FLO, Pennant Magnum.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

Cool! Thanks for the info. That buys me a week or more time to shop for TeeJets and calibrate.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

For any others shopping, I ordered this jewelry scale referenced from this thread..

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9025

This "Iskylie Scale Digital Pocket Scale" looked like a good price anyway...

https://www.amazon.com/Iskylie-Digital-Pocket-Jewelry-Kitchen/dp/B07K2PMRP4/


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

Been web shopping for TeeJets. Um...how many nozzles and screen should I buy for now? Is one XX11004-VS and AI1004-VS enough for the next year or three? I can't believe the nozzles would wear out quickly for homeowners spraying on a monthy basis. But I can see the need to buy a dozen screens.

Hope I'm not being a pest. I might get sprayed.


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## FlaDave (Jul 10, 2018)

I wouldn't imagine you would ever need more than one of each unless they get lost or damaged.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

hsvtoolfool said:


> Been web shopping for TeeJets. Um...how many nozzles and screen should I buy for now? Is one XX11004-VS and AI1004-VS enough for the next year or three? I can't believe the nozzles would wear out quickly for homeowners spraying on a monthy basis. But I can see the need to buy a dozen screens.
> 
> Hope I'm not being a pest. I might get sprayed.


Read the teejets discussion because it all depends on walking speed so no one can tell you the best one to purchase. Most people including myself purchase the XRC11004 and AIC11004 you can start with these and go up or down in nozzle size as needed. I have tried plenty of nozzles and to be honest I'm probably going to have to size up from the 11004 because I walk a little to fast for that one as well.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

FlaDave said:


> I wouldn't imagine you would ever need more than one of each unless they get lost or damaged.


Thanks! That's what I thought.


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## dre white (May 6, 2019)

In the fall for pre emergent application, If you have a poa problem I would definitely recommend this product. 
https://seedbarn.com/products/specticle-flo-herbicide-18-ounces?variant=12543653642340&utm_campaign=gs-2018-11-18&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign
It is pricey but works very well. 
I would say a spring pre emergent is very late for you to apply now. I would go with this for a pre emergent now. 
https://www.amazon.com/Dimension-2EW-Dithiopyr-Pre-Emergent-Herbicide/dp/B0056650Z8/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_3?keywords=pre+emergent+Dithiopyr&qid=1558360975&s=gateway&sr=8-3-fkmrnull
I would go with this instead of Celsius. More or less a generic brand for way less money. https://www.amazon.com/QUALLI-PRO-FAHRENHEIT-HERBICIDE-6-oz/dp/B073XQQV6F/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=fahrenheit+herbicide&qid=1558361252&s=gateway&sr=8-1


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

dre white said:


> I would go with this instead of Celsius. More or less a generic brand for way less money. https://www.amazon.com/QUALLI-PRO-FAHRENHEIT-HERBICIDE-6-oz/dp/B073XQQV6F/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=fahrenheit+herbicide&qid=1558361252&s=gateway&sr=8-1


Not the same herbicides, and certainly not to be considered a generic Celsius.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Spammage said:


> dre white said:
> 
> 
> > I would go with this instead of Celsius. More or less a generic brand for way less money. https://www.amazon.com/QUALLI-PRO-FAHRENHEIT-HERBICIDE-6-oz/dp/B073XQQV6F/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=fahrenheit+herbicide&qid=1558361252&s=gateway&sr=8-1
> ...


That's really interesting that in the description it's targeted at a Celsius replacement but it certainly isn't. I thinks that's the first time I've seen that before. Most of the time it's just sold as "compare to" and it's the same exact AI. Where as this literally advertised as a replacement and it's not even close to the same AI, its a completely different product.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Anyone who buys Fahrenheit thinking it's a Celsius replacement is sadly mistaken.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

Most importantly, "Celcius/Certainty/Prodiamine" sounds better than "Farenheit/Sedgehammer/Dithiopyr".


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## ThomasPI (May 18, 2019)

Subscribed for future use, great info.


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