# The backyard has to go! Full lawn reno and help needed.



## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)

Hello everyone and thank you for taking the time to read this thread and all the help this board provides!

First off, if you search my username you'll find my thread from last year when I was planning on doing a full kill off and seeding. I got behind the curve and ran out of time for the year. Now that the sun is up and everything is starting to green, the lawn is starting to drive me nuts again so it's time to do something about it!

The lawn is a rectangle shape and I'm guessing I've got a 100 x 30 lot or 3,000 sqft. There are plenty of low, high and sloped spots so there is without a doubt a need to have some grading work done.

I would absolutely love to grow the lawn from seeds, but unfortunately, I just don't have the time to do so. I have pretty much decided to purchase sod from my local nursery which sources their sod from Johnsonville Farms in NJ.

My local nursery sells 5x2 (10sqft) rolls of Sod from the farm at $4.49.

Here's my trouble, I'm obviously going to gly the current lawn/weeds and then either rent a skid steer to strip the top level off, or just rent a sod cutter to do the work. If I don't use a skid steer, I'm going to have to level the bare ground by hand.

I have a couple of questions for you all. I have not been able to find a step by step video or instructions as to the steps needed once you scrape off all the old turf.

1) Do I need to rototill the entire yard and then level? 
2)Once rototilled and leveled do I need to add some sort of topsoil before laying the rows of sod?

I am going to take a soil analysis and send it off in the next couple of days so once I do have barren ground, I'll be able to add whatever the report says it needs.

If anyone has a link to a step by step video or a link to instructions as to what I'm faced with, please link it here.

Any suggestions or recommendations? And just before anyone asks, there is currently no irrigation but I will be adding one before laying the sod.

Thank you all very much for the time and I look forward to everyone's comments.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

Pics???


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## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)




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## grassland (Mar 7, 2019)

So these are just my opinions and sorry for the long response....

The question of whether or not to till is based on how compacted your soil is and what your soil is made of. I have sodded over untilled and tilled. Tilling will give the sod a better enviroment for the roots to travel down but you'd be surprised how well roots can penetrate soil that isn't overly compacted. If you are going to till, be careful of going super crazy and deep in the soil which might cause an uneven appearance over the lawn. Some areas might be depper than others. You just want to loosen the topsoil so peaks and valleys dont's appear once you start dumping water on the sod. Once you have all the dead grass removed, step back and take a look at which areas are more compacted. If the area is bascially one big clump of dirt, then yeah, you might have to till it, but if not, you'd might be able to rake a good portion of it.

Now again, this is my opinion, but if you till the yard, you don't need to add topsoil. I would mix in some compost just to give the dirt an injection of nutrients, but not add new topsoil. I come from the belief that you should use your own soil/dirt to sod. I think buying tons of new topsoil is a waste of money. The only reason to bring in soil is to grade the yard. And, if you have tilled, you should be able to move dirt easily up and down, back and forth to the grade you want. If you don't till, then yes, you might need to bring in some dirt to properly grade, but you'd be surprised what you can do by just raking around dirt from one area to another. If you wanted to add 1 inch of topsoil to 3000 sq ft, you'd shocked how much soil you'll need to buy...tons and tons of it. I would move your own soil around..maybe put down some dirt if you want an area filled a little more. Once the grass is gone, move the dirt around, step back and look at, move some dirt around...it will click. Based on the pics you posted last year, your yard has a nice grade to it, but it is hard to tell if there is a large valley in front of the house. If you need to raise that valley up 8 inches so you have one even grade, then yeah, you might need dirt. Move some soil around first before you decide to spend money on it.

Another reason I don't like using fresh topsoil is your lawn could grow differently and be different colors based on which areas have more new topsoil. New topsoil has all sorts of organic materials in it, and yes, it will grow nicely, but unless the topsoil is evenly covered, the other areas that don't have it will not grow as well. Therefore, you are back to buying soil to covering everything. Just use what you've got, and if you do have to buy dirt, buy something that is the same as what you have on the ground. That will ensure even growing and even colored grass. Your sod will do just fine with what you got. It's what you do after you sod that makes or breaks it.

I don't think you need to send a soil test just yet. You are going to mix in compost with your dirt. That is more then enough to inject nutrients into the soil. I also don't believe in fertilizing before you lay sod. There a videos of people throwing down milo on the dirt and correcting soil test analysis (more money), but you don't need that, especially with the compost. The sod has been loved, fertilized, and babied at the sod farm. It is healthy and packed with nutrients. The most important factor, above all, is water. Water, water, water. Keep it hydrated and happy. It will take 10-14 days before the roots really punch through and tack down. By that time, all the fert will be washed deep down or runoff from all the watering you need to do. After 3-4 weeks, then hit it with the fert. The roots will be down in the dirt by then and suck up all the N-P-K. The compost will be sitting there anyway once the first roots make contact. The only time I put down an organic fertilizer before hand is if I plant a couple of plugs. Reason being I'm not going to fert an entire area just made up of plugs. Most of the fert is just going to land on bare dirt and give weeds an arsonal to bring pain. I just throw some fert in the plug hole. With sod, throw fert down on top of it after a 3-4 weeks.

With sod, there are mainly three things to you have do. Keep on a good watering schedule to keep it hydrated, ward off fungus, and keep root-eating insects away. Fertilizing and weed control can come after. I don't know how the weather is in PA, but here in the south with the humidity, fungus can destroy new sod in days. Again, I don't know if things are different in PA or what the grass type you are putting down, but in FL with my St. Aug, I usually put down some granular fungicide within 10 days of sodding (something from Home Depot). I've never lost sod to fungus. You might want to talk to the cool season guys about fungus control and new sod. Maybe your situation is different. Grubs and insects will feast on those new roots. Keep those suckers until control, esp. during the summer and fall months (grubs approx. september time).

With sodding the whole yard, this is something that you can spend massive amounts of money by falling into an OCD black hole, on or just enough to get the sod on the ground. All the money spent on soil tests, tons of topsoil, fert, soil amendents before you lay the sod can burn a hole in your wallet. Decide if you want to till it, throw some compost down and mix it in the dirt, put the sod down, and water it. The grass will do the rest. Let the OCD kick in after the sod is on the ground.


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## grassland (Mar 7, 2019)

Here is good video on caring for sod.

Notice that they did not bring in topsoil. If there is a low spot, they moved existing soil from one part and moved it to another. They just used what they had for consistency. This is important if you don't want different colored grass.

In this video, they did fertilize before laying the sod, but you will mix in compost, so I don't think it is needed. Again, I don't like to fertilize before based on my own experience because I don't see much of a difference if you are going to fert 3-4 weeks after. The main things is water.

Notice they mention fungus. Keep a look out for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i-5TnklRXo


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## arrigetch peaks (Mar 27, 2019)

Your yard has a lot of potential to look great. What is up with that drain that is washing out the lawn?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

1) Do not rototill. Ever. It creates a bumpy mess with uneven settling. The best method is to drag. Go look at pete1313 lawn journal for examples.

2) you have a lot of shade in those images. Grass will struggle in shade.


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## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)

First off, thank you all for the responses and especially to grassland!

That spooky looking building in the back is my garage. The lawn slopes from that garage down to where you see the mud/bare dirt in the last picture. Right where the grass/weeds stop and it turns to bare soil there is a 2'ish slope down to just past the tree.

The black thing sticking out is a gutter extension. When my overhaul takes place, I'll be burring that gutter into the ground and running it parallel to my home and out to the front street.

So here's what I get from your posts above as far as steps to take:
1) gly the backyard 
2) use sod cutter to remove dead grass 10 days later and dispose of leaving me bare soil.
3) add irrigation
4)hand rake/drag chain link fence behind me to level out yard to an acceptable look/grade.
5) Add compost to yard and mix with current soil ( should I do this before step 4?)
6) lay down sod, roll will sod roller
7) water heavily!

Any corrections to the above?


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## lobitz68 (Mar 21, 2019)

You will save a ton of money getting the sod from the source. That is a hefty price tag paying by the roll at a 3rd party...


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## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)

I've already contacted the sod grower to see if I can purchase direct. Does anybody know what a 10sqft roll goes for direct?


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## grassland (Mar 7, 2019)

Happy to help. I would grade before you compost. If not, the compost won't be spread evenly. Very lightly add a thin layer of compost and hand rake it in the top layer of dirt, but make sure it is basically even.

IMO, I don't think using a roller over brand new sod is a good idea. A roller is good to use on established lawns that you want to level out small bumps, or to press down the dirt if there are mice or mole tunnels before sodding or seeding. Once you grade and prep the ground, thats really all you need. Using a sod roller to make "better contact with the dirt" isn't needed. With the watering, the cut dirt that is attached to sod will blend with the soil nicely. The important thing is to allow those roots to shoot into ground. Pressing it isn't going to do anything..the roots are what matters. Rolling over it can stress out the sod and cause damage. With loose, graded topsoil, the sod will make plenty of contact.

Look into how much you should water. Different turf may require different watering requirements. Also factor in heat and weather. Figure out when you will apply starter fert with emphasis on phos and K for root growth and overall cellular health.

I agree with @lobitz68 to see if you can buy from the sod farm.


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## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)

Thanks again for everyone's comments and suggestions. I had a local landscape contractor come out and give me a soup to nuts quote to grade, prep soil, and lay the sod. Here's what he provided below. My thoughts, have him do all the prep work and then I'll have the sod delivered and lay it down myself. He wants $3K to lay the sod. The total cost of the 3000 sqft of sod delivered from the local farm is $1,100. Instant $1,900 savings for something that I believe I could tackle. Am I wrong in thinking of going this route? How many "friends" should I get to help me lay it out?

Sod Installation - $3,000
Scope of Work
● Total SQFT 3,000
● 80% Tall fescue and 15% blue grass 5% Rye grass
● New rolls of freshly cut sod will be installed.
● Sod will be laid out in a brick like pattern and seems will be tight.
● Sod will then be rolled to that it adheres to the ground.
● Sod maintenance instructions will be given upon completion.
Yard Dimensions: 100'L x 30'W = 3.000sqft

Concrete Demo -$750
 Concrete walkway will be removed from garage to back patio.
 Concrete step will also be removed.
 All stone underneath concrete will be removed.
● Price included hauling away and disposal all materials.

Yard Grading -$2,000
 Existing lawn will be removed and other various plant vegetation.
 A mixture of topsoil and compost will be added as the base for sod.
 Approx.14 yards of enriched topsoil will be needed.
 Yard will be regraded to an even surface with proper drainage and no low points in the yard.
 Sod fertilizer will be mixed in the soil to balance PH levels.
 Soil will then be hand raked to a smooth surface.

Total Price $5,750
Discounted Price with all services $5,450

Could me and a friend realistically tackle laying 3k of sod in a day or do I need to enlist another set of helping hands?


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

My humble opinion is that you and a friend or two can lay 3k of sod with no problem. I had a buddy do his all by himself and if you knew this guy you would say yea I got this  Sod from a plate is just one square at a time but the ground prep is what is crucial. Great project by the way...


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## arrigetch peaks (Mar 27, 2019)

Have you gotten a soil test performed?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

I''d honestly be surprised if you could lay 3k sqft of sod and do everything you listed in steps 1-7 in a day. With 2-4 people maybe you could do it in a weekend but sod cutting 3k sqft, moving it, getting 18 yards of dirt brought in(assuming 2 inches) and hauled(presumably you dont have a bobcat or something to push dirt around) by wheelbarrow and shovel, grading/dragging it, and then installing sod in 1 day? TBH I dont see that happening. But with enough people and proper planning you could do it in 2 i'd think if you put in 8-12 hour days.

Honestly the thought of moving 18 yards of dirt by hand with a wheelbarrow and shovel is enough to make me tap out.


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## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> I''d honestly be surprised if you could lay 3k sqft of sod and do everything you listed in steps 1-7 in a day. With 2-4 people maybe you could do it in a weekend but sod cutting 3k sqft, moving it, getting 18 yards of dirt brought in(assuming 2 inches) and hauled(presumably you dont have a bobcat or something to push dirt around) by wheelbarrow and shovel, grading/dragging it, and then installing sod in 1 day? TBH I dont see that happening. But with enough people and proper planning you could do it in 2 i'd think if you put in 8-12 hour days.
> 
> Honestly the thought of moving 18 yards of dirt by hand with a wheelbarrow and shovel is enough to make me tap out.


I'd be handing off all the grading/prep work (listed in the 2k section) off to the contractor as well as the concrete walkway removal.

Myself and two friends would probably be doing the Sod laying.


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## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)

Gents,
Install has been postponed due to weather. It was supposed to take place today so no we're looking at possibly next week.

While in the backyard today I was having a look at the tree next to my kitchen and after seeing all the leafs starting to come in, I wondered about the ability to keep grass under it due to the shade.

The local sod farm will be delivering a mix with 90% of the mix being tall fescue.

Have a look at the pics. Will I be okay? Perhaps trim the tree branches a little?


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## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)

Well, I had the yard graded yesterday and the sod laid today. I'm super happy with it and it came out great! 
One problem, while grading, the ground was a bit soft. We laid the 2" of topsoil latex down the sod and then I began watering. I over did it to say the least and my overwatering compounded with the already soft soil left some very soft spots in the lawn. We have .25" in the forecast for tomorrow, should I not water at all and let the soil dry out a bit? I feel like a complete failure at the moment and hopefully I didn't just make a huge and costly mistake.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

Very nice transformation! You will be fine and the sod should take with no problem. Just so you know whatever happens its all fixable. When I had my back sodded we had a monsoon the next day and I had sheets of turf that lifted and shifted all over the place. I had to go out with an ax and cut the long strips into manageable squares and replace them one at a time. Took me 4 days of some seriously dirty and painful work. In the end my lawn is fine...


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## krusej23 (May 8, 2018)

I would definitely trim up that tree.


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## DiabeticKripple (Apr 14, 2019)

what a difference!

did you lay the sod yourself? or did the contractor do it?


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## grassland (Mar 7, 2019)

Reno looks great! Keep that sucker watered!


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## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)

Thanks everyone. I had a contractor come and regrade the yard and then followed up the next day with laying the sod.

I have some concerns. We've had a pretty wet spring and when he was removing the old turf, they had a very difficult time grading due to how soft the soil was. They ended up packing up the bobcat and regraded by hand. I walked on the regraded surface and it was very soft/spongy like. They then added an inch or so of topsoil and then laid the sod. The Sod went in on Thursday and other than the initial watering (heavy) I haven't watered since due to how soft and spongy the sod is to walk on.

I came out this morning to check and it's still very soft and almost squishy under my feet in certain areas and we haven't had a major rain since the sod went in. I pulled up a couple corners around the lawn and drove a screwdriver in. It goes right in with little resistance.

What should my next move be? I feel like I should be watering but the soil beneath the sod is still saturated. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers!


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Yes you need to water that new sod... Did they put down starter fert?


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## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)

They did put down starter fert and the sod was watered down heavy when first laid down. So still water even though the soil below is saturated and squishy?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You want to maintain the root zone of the sod humid.


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## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)

g-man said:


> You want to maintain the root zone of the sod humid.


G-man, can you explain what you mean in a little more detail? Not too sure what you're trying to say.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The sod comes with some soil/roots in it. That's is what's keeping the sod alive until those roots move into your soil. If the bottom layer is wet, but the top sod layer dries up, it could harm your sod. I think you should keep watering to maintain the sod from getting dry. Forget about the bottom layer for now. Don't walk on the sod for 2-3 weeks until that bottom layer dries up.


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## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)

Thanks everyone for your help. Here are some pictures I took today. The underlying soil is still very very wet after extremely heavy rains since the sod was installed last Thursday. Do I have a fungus problem or worse, root rot due to the rain and soil saturation?


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## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)

Bump to the top!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Looks like a fungus or muddy dirt on the leaves. How is the rest of the yard? Is it spreading?


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## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)

It's covering most of the yard. Some spots worse than others. I walked on it this afternoon and there are still some soft spots but it is firming up.

We finally had a dry day or two and it was warm and somewhat breezy today. Should I water early tomorrow morning just to keep the new sod moist but not enough to add water to the already saturated soil below?

I'm quite worried and don't want to allow a disease to settle in this early in the process. Should I have a lawn pro service come out and give an assessment of what's going on?

Any information that I can provide to you pros to help me figure out what my issue is?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

If you have access to the installer, give them a call to get their opinion. You can also apply a fungicide at a preventive rate.

Water in the am (6am) to keep the sod root zone moist.


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