# "Bridge" synthetic/organic fert - trying to understand how much is what



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Is there any way to tell from a fertilizer analysis of a product containing both synthetic and organic N sources, how much in the bag is from what?

I've looked at the analyses of several products, and tried some involved arithmetic, but I can never quite itemize how much of the N is coming from where. The reason is they lump slow release urea and the slowly available water soluble N from the organics into the same entry.

Anyone figured this out?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Can you post a label you would like deciphered?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Can you post a label you would like deciphered?


Yes. The problem is at the bottom. I see no way to figure out how much is manure and how much is coated urea. I looked up the analysis of unpasteurized chicken manure, and it seems to be 4-4-4 or so, which is impossible because there is no Phosphate in this product. Unless the amount of manure is so tiny that it contributes essentially nothing to the analysis...which would be a rip-off, and I can't see a well regarded brand like this one doing that.


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## Lawn_newbie (Jun 19, 2018)

My local nursery is a big Espoma distributor.

I spoke to their rep David, 4.5% is coated Urea. There is no chicken manure/compost in the product.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Lawn_newbie said:


> My local nursery is a big Espoma distributor.
> 
> I spoke to their rep David, 4.5% is coated Urea. There is no chicken manure/compost in the product.


Thank you!

Now, not to be blunt, but that would be illegal...it has to contain what the bag says under "derived from". While this is a screen shot, I saw the bag with my own eyes, and took a photo of it if anyone needs that for proof.

Perhaps he was referring to a different product...?

Coated urea is not "organic", even though it may be "Organic" in terms of chemistry.


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## Lawn_newbie (Jun 19, 2018)

I am betting the label means is contains organic and additional components. David did state that is a hybrid product.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Lawn_newbie said:


> I am betting the label means is contains organic and additional components. David did state that is a hybrid product.


I'm confused.

I just want to know how much of the total N is from the manure, basically. Do you still have access to him to ask more questions?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable about this will comment. To me though, methylene urea can be water soluble, slowly water soluble, and water insoluble. As a mix of all, this affects how much of the label is manure. So, the 3.4% WIN wouldn't necessarily be completely manure but perhaps a part of it, maybe half (just a guess) but there are too many things mixed in for me to calculate it. Maybe they are using the low amounts of manure as a binder or to help extend N release or probably just to be able to call it organic since it now has an organic substance in it. Just speculation but I wouldn't be surprised. Also, the analysis on the bag is the guaranteed analysis (as in, at a minimum it has) and it may have more NPK than listed. While pure manure may be 4-4-4 (4% of a pure 100% bag of manure), they added in so many other products, S & Fe & SOP & urea & AMS, that the 4% probably consists of less than 1% at this point which is probably why they couldn't label it with any P since it can't be a guaranteed minimum.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> I'm sure someone more knowledgeable about this will comment. To me though, methylene urea can be water soluble, slowly water soluble, and water insoluble. As a mix of all, this affects how much of the label is manure. So, the 3.4% WIN wouldn't necessarily be completely manure but perhaps a part of it, maybe half (just a guess) but there are too many things mixed in for me to calculate it. Maybe they are using the low amounts of manure as a binder or to help extend N release or probably just to be able to call it organic since it now has an organic substance in it. Just speculation but I wouldn't be surprised. Also, the analysis on the bag is the guaranteed analysis (as in, at a minimum it has) and it may have more NPK than listed. While pure manure may be 4-4-4 (4% of a pure 100% bag of manure), they added in so many other products, S & Fe & SOP & urea & AMS, that the 4% probably consists of less than 1% at this point which is probably why they couldn't label it with any P since it can't be a guaranteed minimum.


It's really looking like this might not be a half organic product...it may be mostly urea, which makes no sense since it's advertised as organic...it should have like half of it's N from the organics (and not urea in terms of "organic"!)

I really wish analyses were more friendly to "bridge" products, so one could actually figure out what is what. I have this issue with every synthetic/organic combo product, it seems. The standards need to be revised so "organic" slow release and "synthetic" slow release require separate entries.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Do what I do. Mix your own. I weigh my fert before applying and I therefore know the exact amount of each fert, the lbs of each, and the final analysis. You can use my spreadsheet if you want an easy calculator for combos of fert and potash. I can share if you are interested.


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