# Fall 2018: Barserati KBG, 4th Millennium TTTF head to head or mix?



## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

Okay folks, trying to decide a few things for the Fall. First, dog urine and one of the "patch" fungi laid waste to the strip by the street so I know I'm going full reno there. Already glyph'd it a few days ago. I think I want to go for a mono out there after doing some soil work, but can't decide whether to stay on the KBG train with the newly released Barserati or go back to easier maintenance TTTF with 4th Millennium. Or maybe they'd make a great mix?

Finally, do I want to reno the other sections, overseed only the poorest shape bare spots with KBG, or overseed it all with TTTF. The shadiest parts close to the house did really great with my PGR, Fe, fungicide program, but as you can see, the sunniest spots suffered pretty badly. Not sure whether this was also dog urine related, fungus breakout related, or those areas just suffer from poorer soil conditions. If I go full reno, I've even considered seeding one side in Barserati and the other in 4th Millennium for a head to head transition zone shootout. That might be fun. What do you guys think?


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## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

From the pics, it looks like you have a lot of shade, so I'd be inclined to do a mix. Otherwise, I'd say KBG and overseed with TTTF if it doesn't do well, but that may be where you're at now?

Where did you get Barserati? I thought that was only sold in the HGT Bluegrass blend.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

Can't give you any opinion on either...yet. I am running a mix of 4th Millenium + other TTTF and some KBG. Reading your lawn journal from last Fall helped me make the leap to experimenting with KBG in the transition zone! Good luck with whatever you decide to go with!


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

STL said:


> From the pics, it looks like you have a lot of shade, so I'd be inclined to do a mix. Otherwise, I'd say KBG and overseed with TTTF if it doesn't do well, but that may be where you're at now?
> 
> Where did you get Barserati? I thought that was only sold in the HGT Bluegrass blend.


Yeah, I have 100% KBG in the shaded areas now without issue. Lots of folks warned me before seeding, but it must get just enough afternoon sun. My only gripe has been that the dominate Barvette in the mix just isn't very dark.

Late in the season last year, I overseeded Firecracker SLS TTTF into the strip at the street in hopes that it might be a bit darker and hold up to the harsh conditions out there a bit better. As seen, it didn't fare so well.

I've been patiently waiting and pestering Barenbrug for a couple of years for the release of Barserati and have made a few contacts. They agreed to send me a sample if I seeded it as a mono and tracked it's progress. I'll be planting the strip with it for sure. Just trying to decide what to do with the larger areas. I have enough Barserati to do those areas too and enough 4th Millennium left over from last year's backyard project to use as an interesting comparison. Decisions, decisions.


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## JP900++ (Aug 24, 2018)

I always love to experiment. I love it more when I can learn from experiments that others are willing to accept the results from...just saying. It sounds like good data. I haven't actually heard anything on the Barserati. I'll have to look it up.


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

vnephologist said:


> STL said:
> 
> 
> > From the pics, it looks like you have a lot of shade, so I'd be inclined to do a mix. Otherwise, I'd say KBG and overseed with TTTF if it doesn't do well, but that may be where you're at now?
> ...


I hope this isn't to far off topic, but vnephologist. How did your overseed come out using the mazama?


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

JP900++ said:


> I always love to experiment. I love it more when I can learn from experiments that others are willing to accept the results from...just saying. It sounds like good data. I haven't actually heard anything on the Barserati. I'll have to look it up.


Not sure, the name shows in all NTEP data, but it was Bar PP 110358 before named. You can probably find some other posts here where I've talked about it.


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

iowa jim said:


> vnephologist said:
> 
> 
> > STL said:
> ...


As expected from a KBG overseed, pretty poorly. Although I had poor germination in some bare spots I seeded as well (although was shady). I planted two Mazama pots and have been tracking them in the lawn. It's a dark, compact cultivar as you might expect from its Midnight parent.


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## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

vnephologist said:


> Yeah, I have 100% KBG in the shaded areas now without issue. Lots of folks warned me before seeding, but it must get just enough afternoon sun. My only gripe has been that the dominate Barvette in the mix just isn't very dark.
> 
> Late in the season last year, I overseeded Firecracker SLS TTTF into the strip at the street in hopes that it might be a bit darker and hold up to the harsh conditions out there a bit better. As seen, it didn't fare so well.
> 
> I've been patiently waiting and pestering Barenbrug for a couple of years for the release of Barserati and have made a few contacts. They agreed to send me a sample if I seeded it as a mono and tracked it's progress. I'll be planting the strip with it for sure. Just trying to decide what to do with the larger areas. I have enough Barserati to do those areas too and enough 4th Millennium left over from last year's backyard project to use as an interesting comparison. Decisions, decisions.


Squeaky wheel gets the grease! That's awesome. I think you should do the testing to figure out what will perform the best. Although,isn't Barserati just as light colored as Barvette?


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

STL said:


> Squeaky wheel gets the grease! That's awesome. I think you should do the testing to figure out what will perform the best. Although,isn't Barserati just as light colored as Barvette?


No, it's supposed to have much better color. That's why I've been excited about it. It isn't quite as aggressive as Barvette though.

You've got me really wanting to go for it. Ideally I would have seed down by now, but I should still have time. Especially with the TTTF. I'll probably make it out to kill later this week. @g-man, you've got a few days to talk me out of it this year.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would do a mono of the barserati.


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

g-man said:


> I would do a mono of the barserati.


The moderator has spoken.  I think you're right. I'll start with Barserati and can always overseed the 4th Mill if it runs into any trouble.

I think I'm gonna try to do some better soil prep and leveling this time. Maybe a mix of compost and sand. Just ordered mycorrhizal inoculant and m-binder. Trying to decide between peat or thatch top dress this time.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I did not use peat. I just use the soil and keep it wet with the rachio every hour.

The kbg will be fine. Just mow it at 1.25in with the reel.


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