# Why all of the hate in the YouTube lawn care community?



## AndyS

It's been there for a while now as an undercurrent, but if last night's episode of The Grass Factor is anything to go by it's become more overt and less polite.

I guess this always happens with more and more rival commercial ventures out there. Lots seem to have their alignments and ventures, though the negativity seems unnecessary.

Something similar happened with golf instruction on YouTube once large commercial sponsorship came in. It largely settled down after the initial kerfuffle.

Is it going to get worse before it gets better?


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## RkFast

I sure as hell hope not. But not shocked. With each channel launching a line of products, the writing was on the wall that all these guys would go from buds to rivals. It started as a hobby. Now it's a business for most of them. There are only so many eyeballs and dollars to go around and money and fame does funny things to people.


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## daniel3507

To be honest I've stopped watching most of them. A lot seem to be selling stuff now and others seem to be more entertaining/frat brother vibe. I don't mind that, but I just prefer the more educational videos

Good lord I sound like an old fart....crap, I even tell neighborhood kids to get off the lawn at times...I guess my wife was right...damn


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## Phids

AndyS said:


> I guess this always happens with more and more rival commercial ventures out there. Lots seem to have their alignments and ventures, though the negativity seems unnecessary.
> 
> Something similar happened with golf instruction on YouTube once large commercial sponsorship came in. It largely settled down after the initial kerfuffle.


Welcome to the new media. As Youtube has fully matured as a platform, and as barriers to entry remain extremely low, lawncare is just another saturated niche. I personally think the more, the merrier, but I can understand how some egos would clash and rivalries emerge.


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## jahsoul

AndyS said:


> Is it going to get worse before it gets better?


With corporate dollars involved, I don't think we will ever get back to the good times of YouTube and as stated, it will always be one trying to get ahead.

Being a tech enthusiast, you can see this first hand. You are in a niche field and you start out like the rest of us, but as the channel gets more popular and sponsors come into play, we are looking at channels where people can now speak from the point of having the best of the best, and forget that only applies to probably 5% of their viewing audience. When that happens, I know it is time for me to move on.

From what I've seen in the month that I've been getting into lawn maintenance, it feels like more of the same. Don't get me wrong, I've found a few very informative videos but the most popular ones tend to go like:

*walking outside with chill hop playing in the background*
*Slow motion video of them working a $3k machine*
*Aerial view showing stripes*

"So let me tell you what I do to get those stripes..."

lol


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## CenlaLowell

jahsoul said:


> AndyS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it going to get worse before it gets better?
> 
> 
> 
> With corporate dollars involved, I don't think we will ever get back to the good times of YouTube and as stated, it will always be one trying to get ahead.
> 
> Being a tech enthusiast, you can see this first hand. You are in a niche field and you start out like the rest of us, but as the channel gets more popular and sponsors come into play, we are looking at channels where people can now speak from the point of having the best of the best, and forget that only applies to probably 5% of their viewing audience. When that happens, I know it is time for me to move on.
> 
> From what I've seen in the month that I've been getting into lawn maintenance, it feels like more of the same. Don't get me wrong, I've found a few very informative videos but the most popular ones tend to go like:
> 
> *walking outside with chill hop playing in the background*
> *Slow motion video of them working a $3k machine*
> *Aerial view showing stripes*
> 
> "So let me tell you what I do to get those stripes..."
> 
> lol
Click to expand...

Lol, this had me crying laughing.


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## AndyS

jahsoul said:


> *walking outside with chill hop playing in the background*
> *Slow motion video of them working a $3k machine*
> *Aerial view showing stripes*
> 
> "So let me tell you what I do to get those stripes..."


OK, that was FUNNY


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## osuturfman

AndyS said:


> It's been there for a while now as an undercurrent, but if last night's episode of The Grass Factor is anything to go by it's become more overt and less polite.
> 
> I guess this always happens with more and more rival commercial ventures out there. Lots seem to have their alignments and ventures, though the negativity seems unnecessary.
> 
> Something similar happened with golf instruction on YouTube once large commercial sponsorship came in. It largely settled down after the initial kerfuffle.
> 
> Is it going to get worse before it gets better?


From my view, the undercurrent that has been building is more people leaning further into Lawncare YouTube for financial reasons rather than educational or "shared experience" reasons. That's fine and was basically inevitable. I have zero issues with someone trying to sell a product because after all, everyone needs to make a living. As you alluded to though, things have taken a turn.

The inaccurate product claims and BS marketing tactics have risen sharply over the last year or so. To the point that some of the techniques or claimed benefits don't pass the smell test. Some of this is related to product efficacy for the stated purpose(s), while other parts of it have manifested with some Lawn YTers sharing advice that goes against best practices and/or science.

This isn't Ford vs. Chevy, Coke vs. Pepsi, or N'Sync vs. The Backstreet Boys. It's generally some people just not putting in the work to understand the topic, the safety and/or science behind it, or just saying "stuff" to sell their product.

Now on the flip side, there are YTers who sell products in an honest manner. Many of those folks also understand the responsibility they have to the four to six figures of viewership they have per video. They are ones trying to get it right because they want to be accurate, sell simple and effective products which fit into most any program/skill level, and at least seem to have some integrity about the content they put out.

Good agronomy doesn't have a label or a logo, but you will know it when you see it. There are a good amount of YTers who fit this mold and do an excellent job of providing value through their content while offering products. Conversely, there are others whose value is only provided by the product they offer, at least according to the claims.

As for @thegrassfactor's show, I know for a fact he would be happy to have ANYONE in the community come on the show to have a discussion, not a debate.

At the end of the day, it's calling out the BS marketing tactics and outright inaccurate statements/product claims. Whatever it is you do for a living, I'm sure you see similar things happen and call it out to those around you who would understand. Same principle applies here. This is what we do for a living and when folks try to oversimplify it or make wild claims, it should be called out.

Why though? Not to get rich or famous, that's for sure! It's to help people on their lawn care journey, from Joes to Pros, be more curious, find better ways, and genuinely help them make something that can be really complicated be manageable.


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## bwhitaker

osuturfman said:


> The inaccurate product claims and BS marketing tactics have risen sharply over the last year or so. To the point that some of the techniques or claimed benefits don't pass the smell test. Some of this is related to product efficacy for the stated purpose(s), while other parts of it have manifested with some Lawn YTers sharing advice that goes against best practices and/or science.


This is at least my take on it. There are many personalities out there now that have something like 1-3 years experience in treating their own yards, and having decent success. These folks are novice's at best, but they are writing expensive guides, hosting Q&As, answering peoples questions about herbicides, pesticides, fungicides, fertilizers, spray adjutants, and soil conditioners, like they have vast knowledge of them. Many of the youtubers are or were lawn professionals, professional applicators, or both, these folks have much more experience. They may not have degrees in agg or turf, but they have experience over a number of years and acres of turf to draw on. If you ask most of these people questions they won't have all the answers, but if you ask one of the novices they will. This is a problem, especially when you have people who haven't sprayed anything before being pushed towards msm, tenacity, Celsius, prodamine, now to a degree PGR, etc, ones that easily over applied, especially through a hose end sprayer. Labels ignored, off label uses suggested by gurus(who aren't licensed applicators), etc.

If we switched this discussion over to say guns, or cars and we had people talking about illegal/questionably legal/completely incorrec things on youtube, they wouldn't be getting sponsored.


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## JohnP

Three years ago I was watching every video I could. I fell off the train in early 2019, but having watched a lot of the more recent videos now what @osuturfman stated above is accurate.

Watched a guy try to tell me it's hard to find a triple 10 and so you should buy the bag with his name on it for $40 because it's easier to find.

Watched a guy tell me to level my lawn with a $30 bag of soil amendment that has tons of compost in it. Compost breaks down. Why would I level with that?

Watched a guy level his lawn with soil. Then sand. Then soil again.

Watched a guy tell me the grass at the hotel was starved for nutrients. It was a weed that had been sprayed.

Watched a guy tell me to spray fungicide to take care of mushrooms in my yard.

All of these have affiliate links to products.

This is a small example of the crap, and I think we can all agree that videos like that can do more harm than good for the DIY lawn care community.

There's a big difference between saying:
"Only Honda sells cars that have four wheels."

And saying:
"You're looking for a truck that you will drive to and from the office, grocery store, park, more often than you'll tow a house? The Honda Ridgeline is comfortable, gets good mileage, but you can still fill it with compost to level your lawn."

One is believing you can only sell your product because of a lie, and one is believing you can sell your product because it aligns with the customer's needs and is based on fact.


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## AndyS

Yep, it's unregulated and it's buyer beware. That's one of the reasons why I love this forum as a way of triangulating actual results from different products and practices.

But can't it at least be positive on YT? Valid concern for others being sold snake oil and weapons-grade bu**hurtery are easy enough for most of us to tell apart. Lots of us have our experience in different industries, and we all know 'that guy'.

Everyone's out there pushing product in some way shape or form (and - revelation - it's mostly micros, macros, wetting agents, and carbon forms). If you're in a glass house, best not pick up that rock...

I'm hoping the YT'ers all get to the point where they feel like they're doing well enough they don't need to either pan each other or push random products that they've only just taken out of a box. I'm probably asking for a lot :lol:


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## bwhitaker

JohnP said:


> Watched a guy tell me the grass at the hotel was starved for nutrients. It was a weed that had been sprayed.


I had completely forgotten about this, that was awesome.


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## bwhitaker

AndyS said:


> But can't it at least be positive on YT? Valid concern for others being sold snake oil and weapons-grade bu**hurtery are easy enough for most of us to tell apart. Lots of us have our experience in different industries, and we all know 'that guy'.


I would say probably, but since we're potentially dealing with regulatory agency interventions, I think some of the criticism is deserved, and if civility was an option, sure. Some of the YT guys are blocking everyone that doesn't agree with them, so they that they can safeguard their bubbles. That doesn't create a space where you can actually have a useful dialog.

Some of the stuff is dangerous to the industry, and it's unlikely that being careless in your own yard has many repercussions, but being careless on youtube, may effect the entire industry.

I mean there's a recent video of Allyn spraying Pennant Magnum with a brand new hand held battery sprayer without calibrating, except what the specs on his sprayer is, in a follow up video he said that his sprayer was working fine but other people had issues with theirs not having enough pressure. If you're not paying attention and assuming 0.5gpm at 40psi is correct, but your sprayer delivers 1gpm at 40psi you just doubled everything because you didn't check it.


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## AndyS

@bwhitaker I agree, but then there are others preaching good agronomic practices who deliberately let their lawns go and then see how many four-syllable chemicals it takes to turn a flood-prone area into a golf course style lawn in 45 days.

I think they all mean well and everyone makes mistakes, but to your point they have a responsibility for sure when they have a public platform.

I really respect John Perry, Mark Paulsen (the Lawn Creep), and The Lakehouse Lawn dude for all exploring ways of doing more with less to care for lawns and soil, and I think they each do it in a non-preachy manner.


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## osuturfman

AndyS said:


> @bwhitaker I agree, but then there are others preaching good agronomic practices who deliberately let their lawns go and then see how many four-syllable chemicals it takes to turn a flood-prone area into a golf course style lawn in 45 days.
> 
> I think they all mean well and everyone makes mistakes, but to your point they have a responsibility for sure when they have a public platform.
> 
> I really respect John Perry, Mark Paulsen (the Lawn Creep), and The Lakehouse Lawn dude for all exploring ways of doing more with less to care for lawns and soil, and I think they each do it in a non-preachy manner.


Watch what you enjoy. Don't watch what you don't enjoy.

Good day, sir.


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## AndyS

osuturfman said:


> Watch what you enjoy. Don't watch what you don't enjoy.


Great advice. For me that'll be enjoying the entertainment and the education and just switching off from anything overtly negative. Life is too short.


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## JayGo

I agree and disagree with some of the points made.

I like that people speak their minds about what they like/dislike, but no one needs to be an outright &#127820; about it. It's a bit odd to have a channel where someone insinuates "listen to me but not that guy." "Buy my stuff but not theirs."
I liked it better when folks just made their video, disseminated their info, and moved on.

But YouTube is the Wild West. I don't believe anyone has a responsibility to anything....except maybe professional courtesy. But we know full well that these days 'courteousness' is not the norm. Being nice does NOT get them views and subscribers....unless you're Connor Ward. I like that guy.


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## Retromower

I enjoy watching lawn care videos but for me, they are strictly for entertainment. All of them seem to be pushing their own products and have equipment that isnt realistic for the average Joe.
It is fun to watch someone maintain their cool season grass to .5" with a $5K golf course reel mower though.
As far as the competition between Youtubers, its only natural when you monetize your channel and use it to make a living. Its just like how it is between Youtube golf pros or gamers who make a living streaming gameplay videos.


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## greengrass

I think it is inevitable to get competition between the channels. You can only watch someone mow the same yard with the same information so many times before the channel becomes boring. If they didn't expand there would be no content to make.


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## JLavoe

greengrass said:


> I think it is inevitable to get competition between the channels. You can only watch someone mow the same yard with the same information so many times before the channel becomes boring. If they didn't expand there would be no content to make.


That's where the f***ery starts. They realize mowing and fertilizing isn't getting clicks so they start preaching some BS about "soil health" and products that are unnecessary 9/10 times. The worse part is the potential spread of misinformation.. especial when it comes to things like herbicides the _science_ behind their reasoning.


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## Mightyquinn

JLavoe said:


> That's where the f***ery starts. They realize mowing and fertilizing isn't getting clicks so they start preaching some BS about "soil health" and products that are unnecessary 9/10 times. The worse part is the potential spread of misinformation.. especial when it comes to things like herbicides the _science_ behind their reasoning.


+1

I have been watching YouTube lawn channels for quite awhile and now I rarely watch any of them almost all of them have gone down the rabbit hole and sold their soul to the devil. I understand they all want to make a living just taking care of their lawn but I think that is where they lose me at least. I think most people get into lawn care to do a better job and for less money but when YT lawn personalities start pushing their drugs on the unassuming people and their stuff isn't any better then what you can get locally, it really grinds my gears. Why should someone pay twice as much for something that they can get locally or within a short drive? I agree with some of the comments about people who haven't been doing this that long go out there and give bad or ill advised advice. I could go on and on about certain individuals but that is frowned upon here


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## AndyS

I think commercial relationships are fine, but they need to clear as they're driving bad behavior in some cases:

- If you push product you should declare what your commercial interests are
- If you bash personalities or product you likewise should declare what your commercial interest are
- If you're advising what controlled chemicals people should put in their lawns you should explain why you believe you're qualified to advise in that space


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## Greendoc

Having said all of that, is it bad when someone that does not align with the standards you have just listed above gets called out for it? I am one to go my own way, click to another video if I do not like something. Where it ends for me is when someone puts themselves up as an expert. Then proceeds to give out misinformation or demonstrate very bad practice without stating it is bad practice and not to be emulated by others. Do you know why I have a problem with that? When there are pesticides and fertilizers involved, those products are subject to national as well as local regulation. When a product is misused in such a manner that can potentially attract the attention of authorities, that becomes my problem. Because now we are talking about the tools I depend on to be in business. I hope I can be forgiven for calling out people that represent a threat to the continued existence of my business. There are not many industries I can think of represented by youtubers that can be adversely affected by negative attention by the authorities. You ask how can negative attention be attracted? By misuse and/or misapplication of products. Misrepresenting what a product can or cannot do therefore fostering its misuse and misapplication. This is not about envy or competition. I do not have anything to sell here. All I have is the knowledge and ability to apply that knowledge in the real world. My knowledge base is what pesticides and fertilizers do for turf. When youtubers and their followers manage to attract the negative attention get lawn care scrutinized then regulated out of existence as we know it, I am looking at a career change after being in the industry for almost 30 years. Never mind being in business as a turf and landscape manager for the past 14 years. Calling people out that threaten my livelyhood and making fun of their folly is the very least that can happen to someone that does that repeatedly without regard to what the effect of their actions are.


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## Phids

Mightyquinn said:


> I agree with some of the comments about people who haven't been doing this that long go out there and give bad or ill advised advice. I could go on and on about certain individuals but that is frowned upon here


I'm pretty sure I know who the person in question is, and while I sort of see your point, think of it this way: if you have a great looking lawn, and a neighbor stops by and says, "What's your secret sauce?", what do you do? You're going to start explaining what you did to make your lawn great. Even if you're not an "expert", you still have loads more knowledge than the average yard owner, plus the results to prove it.

Think of Youtube as an extension of that. People who aren't "experts" in the academic sense but have knowledge and skills that others find valuable are simply putting their ideas on Youtube to share with others. It's not like they're sharing how-to videos with others about doing open-heart surgery.

Youtube is a democratic, populist platform (well, in theory at least). After all, this is the site that blessed us with the discovery of Justin Bieber. While it may be distasteful to those who seek more "official" or "expert" channels, it provides the common man access to simpler, free, grass-roots knowledge.


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## g-man

From 1923 Bulletin of the Green Section of the United States Golf Association and it is still very accurate:



> The quack always has something to *sell*. It may be seed, or fertilizer, or what not, or perhaps himself; and when the sucker bites and buys he always gets less than he pays for, and usually, what is worse, he loses time that can never be replaced.
> 
> There is no mystery about greenkeeping (or lawncare). There are no secrets. The work has been going on so long that pretty nearly everything has been tried out. When any one comes around trying to sell something or sell himself, remember to* stop, look, and listen*. If he offers something mixed, or mysterious, or magic, or secret, or special, pass it up.





> As long as quackery is profitable there will be quacks


https://www.asianturfgrass.com/post/quacks-and-suckers/

The harsh reality is that the yt group does have a lot of influence into what ppl buy (that's why so many companies are offering free stuff for "reviews"). And most ppl will not do a simple search and just buy whatever yt tells them. Eventually they end up here or some univ site or just give up. So let's keep posting good solid advise and don't worry too much about what we can't control (eg. yt, facebook groups, reddit).


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## daniel3507

You have to take most "reviews" on youtube with a big grain of salt. Most of these products are given for free or with a nice discount. You don't see many reviews saying this thing sucks and is useless because no company would send that person products. This goes for every genre on youtube but seems worse in the automotive world with aftermarket parts. I think that's why people like Project Farm so much because he doesn't really review anything. It's all tests and comparisons


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## Sbcgenii

You know what's missing from these youboob vids?
The time an effort it takes to have a nice lawn. I feel like that is the most important factor.

I didn't start looking into lawn care until 2017. Back then I watched a LCN video about weed and feed. He said don't use weed and feed. Buy milorganite or another fert and spot spray. It's cheaper more effective and you use less herbicide. Good advise for me at the time. Now that channel is a 24/7 commercials and he creates drama about the freedom 500 lmao. His channel used to be good for beginners. What a shame.

Big thanks to Connor Ward I found one of his vids early on and I had never seen a lawn that nice before and he led me here.


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## AndyS

g-man said:


> Eventually they end up here or some univ site or just give up. So let's keep posting good solid advise and don't worry too much about what we can't control (eg. yt, facebook groups, reddit).


That's such a good response! :thumbup:


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## AndyS

Greendoc said:


> Calling people out that threaten my livelyhood and making fun of their folly is the very least that can happen to someone that does that repeatedly without regard to what the effect of their actions are.


Your desire is valid, but That could be a very long, negative route to take a really short walk.

Humic-based products are likely not going to lead to the demise of the turf grass industry based on misapplication. Telling a homeowner to introduce poa to a residential yard and just 'get on a good ethofumesate program' seems a little riskier IMHO.

Isn't the more effective answer to teach the basics of good lawn care practices and suggest that we all don't need to be diving into heavy use of exotic regulated chemicals just to have a nice residential lawn?


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## JLavoe

AndyS said:


> Telling a homeowner to introduce poa to a residential yard and just 'get on a good ethofumesate program' seems a little riskier IMHO.
> 
> Isn't the more effective answer to teach the basics of good lawn care practices and suggest that we all don't need to be diving into heavy use of exotic regulated chemicals just to have a nice residential lawn?


I understand what you're trying to get at.. but if I may add, this was suggested to an intermediate/advanced homeowner.. not somebody who just bought a new home and is asking for help in a facebook group.

Agronomy and good cultural practices are the bottom line. To my knowledge, @thegrassfactor @Greendoc and @osuturfman have never swayed away from this foundation when giving advice.


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## occamsrzr

AndyS said:


> Your desire is valid, but That could be a very long, negative route to take a really short walk.
> 
> Humic-based products are likely not going to lead to the demise of the turf grass industry based on misapplication.


Let's look at HowToWithDoc. This is the man that took a hose-end sprayer and misted Q4 everywhere on one of his project lawns. Trees were nearby (Q4 contains dicamba, remember?), proper PPE wasn't used, and he sprayed in the heat of the day. The man claims to have the greatest Burmuda grass lawn in the world. He claims to have worked on a golf course for years. It checks all of your boxes for an "authority". In practice, this type of behavior leads to radical changes in laws and regulations. What happens if someone does the same thing with triclopyr next to a waterway? There is a reason places along the Chesapeake Bay have very strict laws. If we have hucksters like Doc peddling poor form, we deserve the right to call him out. He deserves no quarter. This is serious business and our rights and livelihood (in Greendoc's case) depend on it.

Now let's look at someone who falls into more of the grifter/snake oil salesmen camp: John Perry. You're right, spraying humic isn't going to affect the environment. The problem with this camp of charlatan is precisely what g-man called out. If you see anyone telling you that you can spray their humic-based products as often as you want and it works for everyone, some red flags should be raised. There is a time and place for humic but it's not marketed by this camp this way. There are no mentions of what humic does in calciferous soil. No mentions of what it does to any plant available Phosphorus. The claims, while they may be backed by studies, don't mention all of the different soil types where humic does not work and will lead to problems. This is where the science fades and the marketing wank takes over.

Every camp has similar issues. LCN is a meme master for "thower' down" type of behavior. This translates to people over-applying all sorts of things. If a little humic is good, a lot of humic must be GOODER! Ask Mr. Perry what happens when you dump a huge truckload of humic in a field. He has experience. Everything dies. It takes years to get all of that carbon out of the soil.

What you might confuse for cynicism and negativity is a healthy dose of skepticism. You should take everyone's word with a grain of salt. Run all inputs with your own filters. Even the advice I get from Greendoc gets run through my own critical thinking skillset before I put anything on my lawn. I need to know my soil before I look for a magical solution in a bottle.


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## AndyS

@occamsrzr I totally agree on the marketing wank and the healthy skepticism... The problem is that everyone has that marketing wank. Lots of glass houses...

I'd love to see all of these folks just make their commercial interests clear and aid with that healthy skepticism.

I'd also prefer more good information out there and positive, helpful videos, but until or unless... there's TheLawnForum


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## JayGo

&#127871;&#129380;


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## ColeLawn

Same **** in the auto detailing community. Once someone starts shoving a product down your throat the entertainment value diminishes.


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## AndyS

ColeLawn said:


> Same **** in the auto detailing community. Once someone starts shoving a product down your throat the entertainment value diminishes.


Funny, @ColeLawn I actually met a detailer that supposedly worked well with another more successful detailer. They both had their own product lines etc. and the first chance he got the less successful one started talking bad about the more successful one even though they were supposedly buds.

That industry was on fire when the price of classic cars rose.


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## ColeLawn

AndyS said:


> Funny, @ColeLawn I actually met a detailer that supposedly worked well with another more successful detailer. They both had their own product lines etc. and the first chance he got the less successful one started talking bad about the more successful one even though they were supposedly buds.
> 
> That industry was on fire when the price of classic cars rose.


It was hot again a couple years ago too. I've just learned over the years and $100s of dollars of product that you can pretty much get anything you need from the big box store and once you find a process that works for you, you tend to stick with it.

That said, Iron-X truly does work as well as advertised and hyped. It's one of the only products that I found because of YouTube hype and still buy today (besides Beadmaker).


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## Phids

occamsrzr said:


> Let's look at HowToWithDoc. This is the man that took a hose-end sprayer and misted Q4 everywhere on one of his project lawns. Trees were nearby (Q4 contains dicamba, remember?), proper PPE wasn't used, and he sprayed in the heat of the day. The man claims to have the greatest Burmuda grass lawn in the world. He claims to have worked on a golf course for years. It checks all of your boxes for an "authority". In practice, this type of behavior leads to radical changes in laws and regulations. What happens if someone does the same thing with triclopyr next to a waterway? There is a reason places along the Chesapeake Bay have very strict laws. If we have hucksters like Doc peddling poor form, we deserve the right to call him out. He deserves no quarter. This is serious business and our rights and livelihood (in Greendoc's case) depend on it.


I think it's unfair to go after Doc like this, or anyone else on Youtube. Yes, he seems to upsell stuff through his channel, but he also provides a lot of solid information on relevant topics and his videos are very watchable. Claiming that he would be the cause of some regulatory change is a very tenuous argument at best, and it's better to criticize legislators who might craft such regulations instead of Youtubers. Besides, the great thing is that anyone who disagrees with Youtubers is free to start a new Youtube channel with better ideas.


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## RkFast

occamsrzr said:


> AndyS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your desire is valid, but That could be a very long, negative route to take a really short walk.
> 
> Humic-based products are likely not going to lead to the demise of the turf grass industry based on misapplication.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's look at HowToWithDoc. This is the man that took a hose-end sprayer and misted Q4 everywhere on one of his project lawns. Trees were nearby (Q4 contains dicamba, remember?), proper PPE wasn't used, and he sprayed in the heat of the day. The man claims to have the greatest Burmuda grass lawn in the world. He claims to have worked on a golf course for years. It checks all of your boxes for an "authority". In practice, this type of behavior leads to radical changes in laws and regulations. What happens if someone does the same thing with triclopyr next to a waterway? There is a reason places along the Chesapeake Bay have very strict laws. If we have hucksters like Doc peddling poor form, we deserve the right to call him out. He deserves no quarter. This is serious business and our rights and livelihood (in Greendoc's case) depend on it.
> 
> Now let's look at someone who falls into more of the grifter/snake oil salesmen camp: John Perry. You're right, spraying humic isn't going to affect the environment. The problem with this camp of charlatan is precisely what g-man called out. If you see anyone telling you that you can spray their humic-based products as often as you want and it works for everyone, some red flags should be raised. There is a time and place for humic but it's not marketed by this camp this way. There are no mentions of what humic does in calciferous soil. No mentions of what it does to any plant available Phosphorus. The claims, while they may be backed by studies, don't mention all of the different soil types where humic does not work and will lead to problems. This is where the science fades and the marketing wank takes over.
> 
> Every camp has similar issues. LCN is a meme master for "thower' down" type of behavior. This translates to people over-applying all sorts of things. If a little humic is good, a lot of humic must be GOODER! Ask Mr. Perry what happens when you dump a huge truckload of humic in a field. He has experience. Everything dies. It takes years to get all of that carbon out of the soil.
> 
> What you might confuse for cynicism and negativity is a healthy dose of skepticism. You should take everyone's word with a grain of salt. Run all inputs with your own filters. Even the advice I get from Greendoc gets run through my own critical thinking skillset before I put anything on my lawn. I need to know my soil before I look for a magical solution in a bottle.
Click to expand...

With due respect, your bird's a little overcooked here.


----------



## Retromower

JLavoe said:


> greengrass said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is inevitable to get competition between the channels. You can only watch someone mow the same yard with the same information so many times before the channel becomes boring. If they didn't expand there would be no content to make.
> 
> 
> 
> That's where the f***ery starts. They realize mowing and fertilizing isn't getting clicks so they start preaching some BS about "soil health" and products that are unnecessary 9/10 times. The worse part is the potential spread of misinformation.. especial when it comes to things like herbicides the _science_ behind their reasoning.
Click to expand...

Thats the issue that I really have, where they start pushing people to buy products from their website. Im not a fan of people spraying chemicals all over their yard, especially when you have someone who is new to lawn care and doesnt really know what they are doing.


----------



## occamsrzr

Phids said:


> I think it's unfair to go after Doc like this, or anyone else on Youtube. Yes, he seems to upsell stuff through his channel, but he also provides a lot of solid information on relevant topics and his videos are very watchable. Claiming that he would be the cause of some regulatory change is a very tenuous argument at best, and it's better to criticize legislators who might craft such regulations instead of Youtubers. Besides, the great thing is that anyone who disagrees with Youtubers is free to start a new Youtube channel with better ideas.


This is completely fair to criticize. Now unless y'all want to just talk out the side of your mouths about it, we can but I would prefer to speak directly. Here is the video in question:






Granted, my retelling of a video I watched 6+ months was hyperbolic, but I would love to have someone point out where there is good information in this video. I cringe every time I hear him misting Q4 through a hose end sprayer. It's about as informative as an infomercial with just as many call outs to buy his products. Full disclosure: I've bought both Humic DG *AND *PGF Complete. I thought PGF Complete was a joy to spread and the actual ingredients make for a good product. Overpriced? Sure. But there are so many things in this hobby that are this way. If I am not able to criticize someone and something I have both time and money into, I'm not sure what I can criticize.

To the point of:



> Claiming that he would be the cause of some regulatory change is a very tenuous argument at best


This is not the argument I made but thank you for the strawman. To make this very clear: his actions have real world consequences. His actions have effects downstream, both literally and figuratively. If he makes a video about misting Q4 into the environment, there are people out there that will buy it thinking it's the next thing to kill all the undesirables in the yard. Boom, everyone is spraying it like it's the next best thing since Tenacity for post-emergence!

Actual comment from that video:


The only reason why I bring up these laws is because it is very similar to how these issues are dealt with other communities. Gun enthusiasts have to deal with these types of scenarios far more often. If you see someone in your community that gives your passion a bad name, it is your responsibility to criticize them.


----------



## occamsrzr

RkFast said:


> With due respect, your bird's a little overcooked here.


Thanks for your contribution, pal.


----------



## RkFast

occamsrzr said:


> RkFast said:
> 
> 
> 
> With due respect, your bird's a little overcooked here.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your contribution, pal.
Click to expand...

Hey, I like to call out off-topic and overwrought BS disguised as "thoughtful analysis" when I see it.

DIYers all over the Country frying their lawns and polluting waterways coast to coast because some "nut" said "throw 'er down?" Really? Let's take it easy here.


----------



## Phids

occamsrzr said:


> Granted, my retelling of a video I watched 6+ months was hyperbolic, but I would love to have someone point out where there is good information in this video. I cringe every time I hear him misting Q4 through a hose end sprayer. It's about as informative as an infomercial with just as many call outs to buy his products.


I can appreciate it if you don't enjoy Doc's videos, or don't find value in them, but someone else might (in fact, based on his view counts, many people do). People who buy products based on his recommendations are responsible for reading labels, just as they would be if they bought any kind of lawn treatment anywhere.



> To the point of:
> 
> 
> 
> Claiming that he would be the cause of some regulatory change is a very tenuous argument at best
> 
> 
> 
> This is not the argument I made but thank you for the strawman.
Click to expand...

I realize that it was Greendoc who made the original point, and I inferred that you agreed with it based on what you said here:


occamsrzr said:


> What happens if someone does the same thing with triclopyr next to a waterway? There is a reason places along the Chesapeake Bay have very strict laws. If we have hucksters like Doc peddling poor form, we deserve the right to call him out. He deserves no quarter. This is serious business and our rights and livelihood (in Greendoc's case) depend on it.


I simply think that the kind of criticism Doc (and other Youtubers) receive is harsh and unmerited. If they're advocating things that are blatantly illegal, then report them to the authorities for it. Otherwise, if some people gain value from them, that's great, and to each his own.


----------



## occamsrzr

RkFast said:


> occamsrzr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RkFast said:
> 
> 
> 
> With due respect, your bird's a little overcooked here.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your contribution, pal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, I like to call out off-topic and overwrought BS disguised as "thoughtful analysis" when I see it.
> 
> DIYers all over the Country frying their lawns and polluting waterways coast to coast because some "nut" said "throw 'er down?" Really? Let's take it easy here.
Click to expand...

Another killer contribution. Keep it up! Appreciate the positivity.


----------



## occamsrzr

Phids said:


> occamsrzr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Granted, my retelling of a video I watched 6+ months was hyperbolic, but I would love to have someone point out where there is good information in this video. I cringe every time I hear him misting Q4 through a hose end sprayer. It's about as informative as an infomercial with just as many call outs to buy his products.
> 
> 
> 
> I can appreciate it if you don't enjoy Doc's videos, or don't find value in them, but someone else might (in fact, based on his view counts, many people do). People who buy products based on his recommendations are responsible for reading labels, just as they would be if they bought any kind of lawn treatment anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the point of:
> 
> 
> 
> Claiming that he would be the cause of some regulatory change is a very tenuous argument at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is not the argument I made but thank you for the strawman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I realize that it was Greendoc who made the original point, and I inferred that you agreed with it based on what you said here:
> 
> 
> occamsrzr said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happens if someone does the same thing with triclopyr next to a waterway? There is a reason places along the Chesapeake Bay have very strict laws. If we have hucksters like Doc peddling poor form, we deserve the right to call him out. He deserves no quarter. This is serious business and our rights and livelihood (in Greendoc's case) depend on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I simply think that the kind of criticism Doc (and other Youtubers) receive is harsh and unmerited. If they're advocating things that are blatantly illegal, then report them to the authorities for it. Otherwise, if some people gain value from them, that's great, and to each his own.
Click to expand...

I offered up my reason why I believe I can criticize him. I have time and money sunk into what he sells. Some of what he sells isn't bad. I can understand your point of view that there is negativity directed towards him.

I don't think we'll convince each other either way. I can't tell you what not to like. I still get some entertainment from him in my own way. Either way, I'm glad we can have a community here that can have more of these conversations. They are important conversations to have.

Thank you for taking the time to understand my point of view.


----------



## pennstater2005

Locked for further review.


----------



## pennstater2005

Let's keep this discussion on topic and friendly. As some know this has been discussed on TLF ad nauseam and this thread is no different. Carry on.


----------



## Bigdrumnc

Especially when some of the you tubers are advertising here????


----------



## ionicatoms

As a medical device engineer, I can tell you for certain that regulators will take lessons from the worst in our community as sufficient reason to act against all of us.

https://mscnordics.com/whats-up-with-the-european-medical-device-regulatory-mdr-overhaul/


----------



## AndyS

Let's see if there's at least some core that we can agree on...

Some YouTubers that have been the subject of some salvos have of course made some mistakes here and there, but don't we all? And isn't the majority of their content free of such things? I'm not just talking about the Docs of the world... every Youtuber on every side has probably made a few missteps, and that arguably includes MM. All of these folks have produced lots of valuable content that has helped people out. Not sure a quest to belittle such folks - any of these folks - serves a positive purpose.

Pointing out safe practices or the appropriate way to utilize strong chemicals is obviously a great thing and benefits us all...

So...

Why not make a video (or a TLF thread) that covers the top 10 mistakes to avoid - the ones that could most likely get amateur lawn care enthusiasts in trouble?

Whether it's how to apply a certain chem, or how to work with the weather when applying certain materials... How not to accidentally 10x your prodiamine app... Whatever it is, wouldn't that be a good list and have a decent chance of making sure some mistakes are avoided? Wouldn't that serve the higher cause?

As someone who has recently used a pump-up sprayer without first checking the hose fittings were tight, I'd benefit for sure.

Just a thought...


----------



## Slim 1938

Most start out genuine but quickly get caught up in business mentality. Every video they talk for 5 minutes about like and subscribe and links to products. We know idiots. We heard you the last 50 times.


----------



## TN Hawkeye

I think a lot of my problem with the current state of YouTube lawn care is a kind of a nostalgic thing. I started watching lawn videos about 5 years ago when I was trying to get rid of clover at my previous house. There was no one selling their stuff. There was a bunch of people that were making lawn videos and helping people find products they could buy near them. Recommendations were "You need to apply X at this time of year so look for a product with this." It wasn't "You need to apply this specific product through my website." I miss that. It seems as if the educating part has died as the sell mindset has grown. It is especially noticeable when people that haven't been on YouTube very long and don't have a large following are reviewing the same products at the same time. I realize it is a business to some people but I enjoyed learning without the pressure to buy.


----------



## AndyS

TN Hawkeye said:


> I think a lot of my problem with the current state of YouTube lawn care is a kind of a nostalgic thing. I started watching lawn videos about 5 years ago when I was trying to get rid of clover at my previous house. There was no one selling their stuff. There was a bunch of people that were making lawn videos and helping people find products they could buy near them. Recommendations were "You need to apply X at this time of year so look for a product with this." It wasn't "You need to apply this specific product through my website." I miss that. It seems as if the educating part has died as the sell mindset has grown. It is especially noticeable when people that haven't been on YouTube very long and don't have a large following are reviewing the same products at the same time. I realize it is a business to some people but I enjoyed learning without the pressure to buy.


Very well said. It was always going to happen, but it's a shame.


----------



## Phids

TN Hawkeye said:


> I think a lot of my problem with the current state of YouTube lawn care is a kind of a nostalgic thing. I started watching lawn videos about 5 years ago when I was trying to get rid of clover at my previous house. There was no one selling their stuff. There was a bunch of people that were making lawn videos and helping people find products they could buy near them.


I think this mirrors the history of the internet in general. It used to be run by hippies and counter-cultural people back in the 1970s and 80s but was eventually taken over by tech titans profiting off the backs of masses. Likewise, lawn care on Youtube did something similar, apparently. I'm sure there will be additional changes to the landscape of Youtubers in the future.


----------



## AndyS

Phids said:


> I think this mirrors the history of the internet in general. It used to be run by hippies and counter-cultural people back in the 1970s and 80s but was eventually taken over by tech titans profiting off the backs of masses. Likewise, lawn care on Youtube did something similar, apparently. I'm sure there will be additional changes to the landscape of Youtubers in the future.


I agree with you @Phids

It's a tougher situation for lawn care content because the corporate sponsorship can't give them much other than access to more product.

With golf content the sponsorship often improves the content itself, because the sponsors can give them assess to the tour vans, top tour pros, or give them access to play courses just before tournaments start.

In law care it's often just more product to push, or a few giveaways. It often negatively impacts the content for the viewer. It starts to feel like an ad. The best I've seen in lawn care is the Ginja's access to Barenbrug. That was fascinating, but is an exception vs. the rule in terms of content improvement.


----------



## NeVs

It's sad to see the lawn plans in the past where they'd just recommend X of N-P-K at X interval during this time of year and X during this time of year.

I recall one even offering different plans based on specific grass type. Now it's all just , choose one of the following plans (cold or warm season) that tells you to use X of specific product(s) that I sell regardless of grass type.


----------



## Retromower

IMO, "throw 'er down!" is one of the worst parts of advice there is out there. I like LCN and enjoy his videos but it makes people think that if it wont burn their lawn, why not drop it heavy? It totally ignores that environmental concerns of over ferting.
About all these guys who upsell and use their Youtube channel to push product, more power to 'em. These guys arent making Youtube videos for fun or out of the good of their hearts. They are all trying to make a few bucks.
Its up to us, as consumers, to really investigate what they say and the products they are selling. Many people dont though. They see a video and just do what that person says. I know that I was almost like that at first when I started watching LNC's videos about Milorganite. I was like, "this stuff sounds amazing". Then I researched what it really is and I was like, "ohhhh...maybe not". Not everyone does that though.


----------



## TN Hawkeye

Phids said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think a lot of my problem with the current state of YouTube lawn care is a kind of a nostalgic thing. I started watching lawn videos about 5 years ago when I was trying to get rid of clover at my previous house. There was no one selling their stuff. There was a bunch of people that were making lawn videos and helping people find products they could buy near them.
> 
> 
> 
> I think this mirrors the history of the internet in general. It used to be run by hippies and counter-cultural people back in the 1970s and 80s but was eventually taken over by tech titans profiting off the backs of masses. Likewise, lawn care on Youtube did something similar, apparently. I'm sure there will be additional changes to the landscape of Youtubers in the future.
Click to expand...

I wonder how much things will change when these companies are spending their money on expos and conferences once COVID has died down. I'm sure there was a lot of advertising money the last 12 months that they had to use. Maybe they realize YouTube is the way to go and large conferences go away. I doubt it as I don't think many professional applicators that can afford their equipment are watching YouTube videos. I would bet they didn't get as many sales off of the flooding of YouTube with their products as they do off of GIE.


----------



## Lawn Noob

I loved watching LCN when he was at his most ironic. The guy probably had the worst st Augustine lawn in all of Florida...all the while telling me how to have a beautiful lawn. I enjoyed watching because I could tell he was struggling to improve, like me. Then, he bought a nice st Augustine lawn, started selling products, and largely lost my attention.

I currently enjoy the heavy set guy who does bit parts in other people videos. Ryan something or other. I like him because he is knowledgeable, doesn't sell products, and has a quirky sense of humor. B-msT patches for all! &#129315;


----------



## Ware

Lawn Noob said:


> ...I currently enjoy the heavy set guy who does bit parts in other people videos. Ryan something or other. I like him because he is knowledgeable, doesn't sell products, and has a quirky sense of humor. B-msT patches for all! 🤣


Yeah that guy sort of reminds of @osuturfman, but I think osuturfman is skinnier.


----------



## Retromower

Lawn Noob said:


> I loved watching LCN when he was at his most ironic. The guy probably had the worst st Augustine lawn in all of Florida...all the while telling me how to have a beautiful lawn. I enjoyed watching because I could tell he was struggling to improve, like me. Then, he bought a nice st Augustine lawn, started selling products, and largely lost my attention.
> 
> I currently enjoy the heavy set guy who does bit parts in other people videos. Ryan something or other. I like him because he is knowledgeable, doesn't sell products, and has a quirky sense of humor. B-msT patches for all! 🤣


Thres actually a lot of great lawn care Youtubers out there, if you take what they do as purely entertainment. Doc is good, Lawn Whispering is good and Budget Lawns is good too. Ive really enjoyed Budget Lawns lately because he just seems like a regular guy, with a regular sized yard, with regular lawn equipment who just wants to help people make their lawns better.
One thing Ive really taken away from all of the lawn care videos Ive seen is that EVERYONE has issues with their yard, no matter what or how much product they use or how expensive their mower is.


----------



## corneliani

Ware said:


> Lawn Noob said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...I currently enjoy the heavy set guy who does bit parts in other people videos. Ryan something or other. I like him because he is knowledgeable, doesn't sell products, and has a quirky sense of humor. B-msT patches for all! 🤣
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah that guy sort of reminds of @osuturfman, but I think osuturfman is skinnier.
Click to expand...

:rofl:


----------



## ionicatoms

Retromower said:


> One thing Ive really taken away from all of the lawn care videos Ive seen is that EVERYONE has issues with their yard, no matter what or how much product they use or how expensive their mower is.


Bingo. I tell my neighbors who are interested in learning more that it's really more about improving the property you have and not so much about having the best in the neighborhood. Of course your yard looks better compared to the guy who does nothing, but I can find opportunities for improvement in pretty much every yard. I try to minimize the competition and maximize the shared enjoyment.


----------



## osuturfman

Ware said:


> Lawn Noob said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...I currently enjoy the heavy set guy who does bit parts in other people videos. Ryan something or other. I like him because he is knowledgeable, doesn't sell products, and has a quirky sense of humor. B-msT patches for all! 🤣
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah that guy sort of reminds of @osuturfman, but I think osuturfman is skinnier.
Click to expand...

Remember all that weight I lost? Apparently, I found some of it. :bandit:


----------



## Lawndry List

The only channel that has really thrown me off recently has been The Greener Lawn. It's like he's interviewing to be a tv host & now he's doing lives & posting every day basically. Quality > quantity.


----------



## Phids

Lawndry List said:


> The only channel that has really thrown me off recently has been The Greener Lawn. It's like he's interviewing to be a tv host & now he's doing lives & posting every day basically. Quality > quantity.


I feel like I've seen several channels copying the Ron Henry livestreamed Q&A sessions. Granted, it's not an entirely original idea, but Ron Henry has the kind of personality to pull it off.


----------



## Lawndry List

Phids said:


> Lawndry List said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only channel that has really thrown me off recently has been The Greener Lawn. It's like he's interviewing to be a tv host & now he's doing lives & posting every day basically. Quality > quantity.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like I've seen several channels copying the Ron Henry livestreamed Q&A sessions. Granted, it's not an entirely original idea, but Ron Henry has the kind of personality to pull it off.
Click to expand...

I have actually never watched any of his videos, but they have been popping up as a recommendation left & right. LCN is the OG. Connor is one of the funniest/greatest characters on YouTube. IDC what anyone says about Ryan Knorr, he's the first guy I started watching, I am a fan, & his editing is some of the best on YouTube. Lawncology, Grass Factor, GCI, Lawn Whisperer, JTLK, Paul's Prime Cuts, Brett, Silver Cymbal, Koven, Lawn Guardian, Turf Therapy, Don's Lawns, Reel Low Dad, Grass Daddy, Blades of Grass Lawncare, Lawn Shark, Lawn Time Coming, Neighbor Dominator, Jason G, Jimmy Lewis... I could go on & on lol... I think there's a ton of great content & I support all of those guys. Lawn Tools & Budget Lawns are great + they are local, so I support them a bit more, but overall I think the content is in great shape. We just need more John Ware vids!


----------



## Phids

@Lawndry List Funny, but you didn't mention some of the ones I watch the most - Doc, Bermudagrass Central, and Average Lawn Guy (they're local to me in Georgia). NiceAZ Lawn is another good one. But it's amazing how I recognize most the guys you just listed off, and I only started watching Youtube lawn videos about a year ago. I think each person has his place; some are more practical, others are more theoretical and scientific, while still others are more entertaining. Ryan Knorr has the best editing skills of them all.

Most of all, I like that if I have a specific question about something very particular, chances are that there's a video made about it. Yes, it's a crowded market, but that's a plus for viewers who want more and more content.


----------



## Ware

Lawndry List said:


> ...We just need more John Ware vids!


Videos take a lot of time to do right, and finding that time is getting harder and harder for me. I have a hard enough time trying to stay caught up on all the great discussion topics here at TLF. Also, talking to a camera and editing videos is not something that comes naturally to me. I know - excuses. :lol:


----------



## AndyS

Ware said:


> Lawndry List said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...We just need more John Ware vids!
> 
> 
> 
> Videos take a lot of time to do right, and finding that time is getting harder and harder for me. I have a hard enough time trying to stay caught up on all the great discussion topics here at TLF. Also, talking to a camera and editing videos is not something that comes naturally to me. I know - excuses. :lol:
Click to expand...

Those are excuses...  I've watched that ferrous ammonium sulfate vid a bunch of times, and it's quality.

Having said that, video editing is incredibly painful... It's a time suck. Anyone that does it well deserves props.


----------



## Lawndry List

Ware said:


> Lawndry List said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...We just need more John Ware vids!
> 
> 
> 
> Videos take a lot of time to do right, and finding that time is getting harder and harder for me. I have a hard enough time trying to stay caught up on all the great discussion topics here at TLF. Also, talking to a camera and editing videos is not something that comes naturally to me. I know - excuses. :lol:
Click to expand...

I bet! I've wanted to start a channel multiple times, but I don't know where I would find the editing time. That's why I have 0 hate for any of the community members making content. Neighbor Dominator did an interview series & Jordan from the Lawn Tools & the Lawn Whisperer both talked about getting up at about 4 or 5 AM I think it was just to do editing. Both have full time jobs, both have kids, have to give them credit for that!


----------



## Phids

I say go for it. Just stay away from the vlog-style lawn videos that can get kind of annoying. "Before I give you information you need, let's take a slow walk around my yard while I comment on every single part of my lawn." &#128534;


----------



## ShadowGuy

Phids said:


> I say go for it. Just stay away from the vlog-style lawn videos that can get kind of annoying. "Before I give you information you need, let's take a slow walk around my yard while I comment on every single part of my lawn." 😖


When I watch these videos, I always wonder what their neighbors think. They must be bewildered, that these guys are not only fanatical about their lawns, but they walk around talking to themselves and documenting it all on video.

Props to them, I do enjoy watching lots of the content.


----------



## Lawn Noob

ShadowGuy said:


> Phids said:
> 
> 
> 
> I say go for it. Just stay away from the vlog-style lawn videos that can get kind of annoying. "Before I give you information you need, let's take a slow walk around my yard while I comment on every single part of my lawn." 😖
> 
> 
> 
> When I watch these videos, I always wonder what their neighbors think. They must be bewildered, that these guys are not only fanatical about their lawns, but they walk around talking to themselves and documenting it all on video.
> 
> Props to them, I do enjoy watching lots of the content.
Click to expand...

My wife says if she ever sees me laying on my lawn, lovingly stroking my grass and talking to a camera, she's out. :lol:


----------



## briansemerick

Lately I've noticed a trend that bothers me. I like watching the personalities and getting information, and I'm fine with the ads to get them money. However it seems like there is a life cycle of these tubers. They start small and likeable, with interesting info. They get more subscribers and eventually they either burn out (rare) or they get contacted by a product company and out of the blue start to promote those products on their channel - many times without explaining what they are doing, as if we didn't know. Or there are like Knorr and just slap their name on products and sell direct. And then make their videos just long enough (15 minutes) so they squeeze in 3 ads per video.

I don't begrudge people making money from their work. But I don't like being sold products from people I trusted to give me unbiased and good info on lawn care. As soon as they start promoting a brand, I stop trusting them for product advice.


----------



## Mightyquinn

briansemerick said:


> Lately I've noticed a trend that bothers me. I like watching the personalities and getting information, and I'm fine with the ads to get them money. However it seems like there is a life cycle of these tubers. They start small and likeable, with interesting info. They get more subscribers and eventually they either burn out (rare) or they get contacted by a product company and out of the blue start to promote those products on their channel - many times without explaining what they are doing, as if we didn't know. Or there are like Knorr and just slap their name on products and sell direct. And then make their videos just long enough (15 minutes) so they squeeze in 3 ads per video.
> 
> I don't begrudge people making money from their work. But I don't like being sold products from people I trusted to give me unbiased and good info on lawn care. As soon as they start promoting a brand, I stop trusting them for product advice.


+1

I would like to add that the majority of all these "Lawn YouTubers" are all the same for the most part. None of them are putting out any information that is new and it has been repeated ad nauseam. Almost all of them is a rinse and repeat on information or techniques. I know some of them come on TLF to get ideas or see what is trending and go from there. Most of them have turned into infomercials for whatever they are trying to sell when most of what they sell can be found elsewhere for much cheaper. I'm also not in the boat for "just because they spend the time editing their videos and posting they are doing something special", to me that is just another participation trophy. I do appreciate the fact that a few people are trying to branch out and do different things like Ryan Knorr and his whole new property that he has and doing the test plots and the Lawn Tools with his whole backyard golf course thing he has going, to me that makes interesting content and sets you apart from the other 99% of lawn YT.

One more thing that irritates the living crap out of me is when you have these Lawn YouTubers that tell you to apply all these things to your lawn but their lawns are all infested with weeds and what not even though they applied pre emergent and are over feeding their lawns with fertilizers. I can understand if you are just starting off but some of these guys have been doing this for several years if not more and their lawns don't look any better than they did when they started.


----------



## Redtwin

I have some favorites that I watch for entertainment but I can't say that I have ever bought any of their lawn products. I have supported a few by buying from their merch store. LCN has started selling his own products but he has some excellent instructional videos on calibrating sprayers and treating grass. Lawn Tools is entertaining as well with the whole backyard course and the videos of him and @LeftTool imitating their wives. Some others that I enjoy watching are:

Connor Ward (Lawn Rebel) - Not the same grass type but he treats it like it's Bermuda so it's enjoyable. He's a "character" and cringeworthy sometimes. I have bought a couple of his t-shirts and look forward to his next video.

Ben Sims (Lawn Tips) - I don't follow as much now that he no longer has the TifTuf green but he is working on Par 3 at his property so standing by for that. I bought a hat from him for a lawn nut friend's birthday.

Fried Eggs Golf - Probably my favorite but they haven't been posting much recently. I really enjoy the father/son banter. They have not taken on any sponsors which is probably why they haven't posted much recently. They still have their real jobs and lives so can't dedicate themselves 100% to Youtube. I'd gladly listen to some product placement to watch their videos and try not to judge the others who have.

How To With Doc - He used to have some great instructional videos but now is nothing more than an infomercial for Andersons. He called people who stripe the P word because he could not stripe his own yard. I took that pretty hard. :lol: He clearly does not have the "World best Bermuda lawn" or whatever he calls it. Unsub'd a couple of years ago and luckily he has finally stopped showing up on my feed.

My take is I watch them for entertainment and get my product recommendations here or at my local extension office. Not that there is anything wrong with any of their products; I just feel I can get the same results locally and not pay higher prices along with shipping costs. If I want to support their channel, I'll buy a shirt or hat.

I wish that John Ware guy would make more videos.


----------



## Phids

Redtwin said:


> My take is I watch them for entertainment and get my product recommendations here or at my local extension office.


That's the secret sauce of Youtube that isn't discussed enough. There might already be 10 Youtubers talking about lawncare for the same kind of lawn, but if the 11th person comes along and does it in a way that is more entertaining than the rest, that 11th person might be the most successful of them all. The entertainment value can show up via the person's personality, editing skills, vision, and so forth.


----------



## briansemerick

Phids said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> My take is I watch them for entertainment and get my product recommendations here or at my local extension office.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the secret sauce of Youtube that isn't discussed enough. There might already be 10 Youtubers talking about lawncare for the same kind of lawn, but if the 11th person comes along and does it in a way that is more entertaining than the rest, that 11th person might be the most successful of them all. The entertainment value can show up via the person's personality, editing skills, vision, and so forth.
Click to expand...

that's definitely true. It does bum me out that many have traded their useful tips and such for flashy editing and product selling. I can't remember the last time Knorr showed me something new other than what product I should buy and put down or his new business.


----------



## CenlaLowell

briansemerick said:


> Phids said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> My take is I watch them for entertainment and get my product recommendations here or at my local extension office.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the secret sauce of Youtube that isn't discussed enough. There might already be 10 Youtubers talking about lawncare for the same kind of lawn, but if the 11th person comes along and does it in a way that is more entertaining than the rest, that 11th person might be the most successful of them all. The entertainment value can show up via the person's personality, editing skills, vision, and so forth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that's definitely true. It does bum me out that many have traded their useful tips and such for flashy editing and product selling. I can't remember the last time Knorr showed me something new other than what product I should buy and put down or his new business.
Click to expand...

There comes a time where he won't be able to show you anything new or any other YouTubers either. That means you knowledge in lawn care is as deep as there's and that's a good thing. There now are reaching for the NEXT generation of homeowners and lawncare enthusiast. Thats the cycle of this.


----------



## Mightyquinn

My other complaint I have with most of these people are that they come out with guides for lawn care for types of grasses they have NEVER cared for, I'm a believer in stick to what you know but when they start talking out their a$$ about something they have never actually managed that's a warning sign that they are just trying to maximize their profits. You will never see me giving detailed advice on anything other than bermuda since that is all I have basically cared for. There is very little if any information on YouTube that you can't find here on TLF for FREE and probably get more detailed advice on top of that too.


----------



## briansemerick

CenlaLowell said:


> briansemerick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phids said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's the secret sauce of Youtube that isn't discussed enough. There might already be 10 Youtubers talking about lawncare for the same kind of lawn, but if the 11th person comes along and does it in a way that is more entertaining than the rest, that 11th person might be the most successful of them all. The entertainment value can show up via the person's personality, editing skills, vision, and so forth.
> 
> 
> 
> that's definitely true. It does bum me out that many have traded their useful tips and such for flashy editing and product selling. I can't remember the last time Knorr showed me something new other than what product I should buy and put down or his new business.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There comes a time where he won't be able to show you anything new or any other YouTubers either. That means you knowledge in lawn care is as deep as there's and that's a good thing. There now are reaching for the NEXT generation of homeowners and lawncare enthusiast. Thats the cycle of this.
Click to expand...

True. I just wish the cycle didn't only turn to products. Not that I don't use products but I try to do it sparingly and I don't do it by brand. I prefer Turf Mechanic over most of them because he shows how to make sure your soil is good. I'm not all about "organic" but I do appreciate that side of it.


----------



## Thick n Dense

daniel3507 said:


> To be honest I've stopped watching most of them. A lot seem to be selling stuff now and others seem to be more entertaining/frat brother vibe. I don't mind that, but I just prefer the more educational videos
> 
> Good lord I sound like an old fart....crap, I even tell neighborhood kids to get off the lawn at times...I guess my wife was right...damn


Yea good for begginers. 
All of them have been reguritating videos for the past 2 years from 4 years ago.

The ones that will stay succesfull are the ones that make you want to watch for entertainment and nothing more.


----------



## Thick n Dense

Mightyquinn said:


> My other complaint I have with most of these people are that they come out with guides for lawn care for types of grasses they have NEVER cared for, I'm a believer in stick to what you know but when they start talking out their a$$ about something they have never actually managed that's a warning sign that they are just trying to maximize their profits. You will never see me giving detailed advice on anything other than bermuda since that is all I have basically cared for. There is very little if any information on YouTube that you can't find here on TLF for FREE and probably get more detailed advice on top of that too.


I agree but arent the basic principles the same for all grass types ?
Water long and infrequent 
4-5 #s of fert per year 
1/3 rule 
Pre M 
Basic weed sprayer dynamics 
And youre good

But yea they scalp content and videoize it. Here for free on this site


----------



## Mightyquinn

Yes you are right the basics are the same. If you do nothing but mow, water and fertilize on a regular basis, your lawn will be above average in your neighborhood. You got bermuda guys talking about how to care for cool season grass and vice versa. That's why we have a Cool Season Forum and a Warm Season Forum. They are just trying to expand their customer base. If someone wants to take advice from some self proclaimed "expert" that has never cared for that type of grass then have at it. I'm just not a fan of it is all, and will call it out when I see it.


----------



## thebmrust

I'll be that guy…

From a social media perspective:
Start at a search
End up finding a forum
(lurk for a while before you sign up so you can see the pictures)
Read a lot.
(try much of what you read)
Some things work, some don't.
Type up first dumb post.
Read more. Post more, then…
Yell at the screen because you "know better"!
Post more.
Get validation.
Post more.
Hit a milestone where you get more positive response than negative.
Think about moving from forums to … VIDEO
Start simple (free video apps & cell phone).
Quickly buy things for better video/audio/editing.
Realize your lawn gear sucks (looks bad on video).
Buy more lawn gear.
Spouse questions where the vacation fund went.
Have to justify purchases (and all the time to shoot, edit, respond to videos).
Need money.
Seek sponsorships.
End up reading about yourself on the same forum you got your start in.
Keep pushing despite the haters
OR
Shut everything down, sell the gear, and go on vacation.

What did I miss?

In some sort of reality, many of us would love to get paid for mowing our own lawn.


----------



## ABC123

lots of things are a hype, nutrients doesnt need to be so complicated. Its not like were trying to create a flower to inhale. Its just grass here, nothing is a miracle. All life needs nitrogen to grow, sustainable levels of nutrients for a crop are very real. Nothings needs to be that damn precise, so many people want you to suggest perfect textbook answers and its not that serious.


----------



## Amoo316

thebmrust said:


> I'll be that guy…
> *SNIP.....*


This is gold, well done.

The three main things I spend my time watching on Youtube are:

1. Fishing, obviously I do it as a career.
2. Lawn Care, I enjoy it as a passionate hobby.
3. Detailing, again I enjoy it as a passionate hobby.

The trend doesn't just exist in the Lawn Care youtubers, it happens in most spaces. Guys start their channels with things they use or enjoy using. A lot branch out and start testing new stuff for views/content/curiosity...etc. Once they start to get big enough, free product starts showing up. Once they get bigger, paid sponsorship/paid promotion deals start happening.

In the detailing world, most channels cross over from being good content to meh, as soon as they start getting their own branded products. Suddenly all their good content is gone and you're flooded with nothing but their own brand over and over and over.

In lawn care, you see the switch, usually in products other then their main fertilizer. When they go from a collection of products from different companies, to a collection of products all from the same company including things they normally would never use.

Some channels in all 3 genres do a good job of providing a mix of their own/sponsored stuff vs testing and different products. Others continue to push their sponsored stuff ad nausea-um. To me that's the point where I decide whether it's worth it to stay through the infomercials because there is still enough good and educational or entertaining content or if I drop out.

It's really kind of sad, I've watched a lot of channels destroy themselves and stagnate their viewers once they start getting paid sponsorships and product placements.


----------



## Ngilbe36

Amoo316 said:


> It's really kind of sad, I've watched a lot of channels destroy themselves and stagnate their viewers once they start getting paid sponsorships and product placements.


I think this is one of the reasons ProjectFarm is one of the best YT channels out there. He does all his own testing with pretty low tech but effective setups and has no affiliation with any product. He's the hero we dont deserve.


----------



## Phids

I think this thread can be summed up with one word:

*Capitalism*

It's a beautiful thing, isn't it? As more and more people become interested in a topic and want to know more, others start to increase their supply of information and resources on that topic. In other words, the public has more options to learn and grow than ever before. While some people might demand in-depth Youtube videos with advanced information that is scientifically-backed, others might prefer the most basic information provided by a guy who can crack a joke or two.

I think we should appreciate what we have, even if we don't like everything out there.


----------



## briansemerick

Amoo316 said:


> In lawn care, you see the switch, usually in products other then their main fertilizer. When they go from a collection of products from different companies, to a collection of products all from the same company including things they normally would never use.


yup. it's that point where I go "oh I know what's going on here...." see The Neighbor Dominator recently. I liked his stuff for the fun of his posts. Now all of a sudden it's "i'm going with this new line of products here, Turf Titan"


----------



## Redtwin

I don't even consider any of their products. If they aren't entertaining, I don't watch them anymore. I will occasionally buy a hat or t-shirt though.


----------



## lbb091919

briansemerick said:


> Amoo316 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In lawn care, you see the switch, usually in products other then their main fertilizer. When they go from a collection of products from different companies, to a collection of products all from the same company including things they normally would never use.
> 
> 
> 
> yup. it's that point where I go "oh I know what's going on here...." see The Neighbor Dominator recently. I liked his stuff for the fun of his posts. Now all of a sudden it's "i'm going with this new line of products here, Turf Titan"
Click to expand...

Toro is handing out their Flex-Force stuff left and right too. Including Neighbor Dominator, I can think of at least four Instagram/YT accounts that all of a sudden started pushing Toro's full line of battery equipment.


----------



## briansemerick

yeah. Youtube has just become another outlet for advertising, among the ACTUAL ads you are interrupted by. For instance I've always loved Binging with Babish. Now every episode has multiple ads plus The Botanist plug at the end and sometimes whole episodes are sponsored by another company too.


----------



## RCUK

STube is a good replacement for the YouTube app if you use Google TV on your TV, it blocks ads. Newpipe app for your mobile does the same thing. Adblock in Chrome for your PC also blocks YouTube ads.

However no getting around the QVC style videos being produced by lawn 'experts'.

"Hey I'm excited to show you this blah blah that I will never use myself but you should buy it from my link below because it's new"


----------



## Lawn Noob

New fishing lures are made to attract fisherman, not fish. New fertilizers are made to sprout bulls#it, not grass. Marketing 101.


----------



## thebmrust

The reason so many people cut cable was because of the advertising and lack of control.

Now that the media giants finally figured out why their revenue stream was drying up, AND Google decided to eviscerate their "do no evil" directive, we are now in the same cycle as before with little means of escape (save for complete withdraw of the internet).

My .02…
Once this generation of influencers can become business owners and policy makers, we can get change in the entertainment industry.

The FCC has made rules for the stupid people. Because they do exist. Yes, there are functional humans that believe Mayhem from the commercials should not be driving. (Yes, a real conversation I had with a person).

Thus, advertising requires obviousness. As in, you can't subtly put in a Pepsi for a character to drink or a name brand (products) in the backgrounds. Even tubers have to make statements about sponsorships.

Sidebar: who listens to the statements and follows up if that person was paid vs company provided a product?

I personally think the rule should change. If you opt to include products (paid/sponsored or free on your own), then the interruption commercials should be absent.

But, I don't see that changing because its hard (nay, impossible) to regulate. The govt needs to be relevant to help those that can't internally regulate reality.


----------



## MasterMech

thebmrust said:


> The reason so many people cut cable was because of the advertising and lack of control.
> 
> Now that the media giants finally figured out why their revenue stream was drying up, AND Google decided to eviscerate their "do no evil" directive, we are now in the same cycle as before with little means of escape (save for complete withdraw of the internet).
> 
> My .02…
> Once this generation of influencers can become business owners and policy makers, we can get change in the entertainment industry.
> 
> The FCC has made rules for the stupid people. Because they do exist. Yes, there are functional humans that believe Mayhem from the commercials should not be driving. (Yes, a real conversation I had with a person).
> 
> Thus, advertising requires obviousness. As in, you can't subtly put in a Pepsi for a character to drink or a name brand (products) in the backgrounds. Even tubers have to make statements about sponsorships.
> 
> Sidebar: who listens to the statements and follows up if that person was paid vs company provided a product?
> 
> I personally think the rule should change. If you opt to include products (paid/sponsored or free on your own), then the interruption commercials should be absent.
> 
> But, I don't see that changing because its hard (nay, impossible) to regulate. The govt needs to be relevant to help those that can't internally regulate reality.


I think it's a good thing that content creators have to be open about sponsorships and product placement. It's not that we're stupid (as consumers), it's that subtle manipulation via human psychology has proven incredibly effective (not just for profit either) even when we are conscious of it, raising ethical questions for those times when we are ignorant of it. Disclosing the stakeholders in media content shifts the responsibility for the consumers' actions completely onto the consumer, as it should be.

I'm not sure I want the US gov't involved here either. At least not more than simply requiring honest disclosure of advertising/sponsorship/product placement. The gov't has a terrible track record of enacting effective regulation of predatory business practices. Predatory lending, telemarketing (both the nuisance and outright fraudulent operations), price discrimination, stock market manipulation, all continue largely unchecked today, despite these issues being decades, if not centuries old, with regulations in place.

As much as I personally dislike the current situation with services like free YouTube (15 min video, often an infomercial itself, is padded with two ads up front, one or two in the middle, and two at the end, ugh) I don't consider it unethical. At least the option to skip an ad is sometimes there. There will always be a market for free media funded by advertising. What's changed in recent years is that market has shrunk due to the rise of paid subscription streaming services like Netflix, YouTube Premium, Hulu(No Ads), Disney+, AppleTV+, etc. It used to be 100% for OTA TV. Then CATV and Satellite services gave rise to HBO, Starz, Cinemax, Showtime, PPV etc. DVD made buying an entire series to enjoy in-home, ad-free, a reality. Now, Consumers are voicing their preference for uninterrupted media content in exchange for subscription fees. If history serves, the content creators will follow the money, so I expect the situation to resolve itself without outside interference. If I'm wrong, I expect the movie Idiocracy to become reality in short-order. :lol:


----------



## DFW_Zoysia

Great thread.

Couple of comments (all my own OPINIONS so don't take what I say personally or directed at anyone on this forum):

Last thing we need is more laws because people can't figure out for themselves what to buy or not to buy. Sorry - people need to be adults and make their own decisions. I don't need to know if someone has an item for free or paid for it to help me decide whether to trust him or not. I watch different videos, read reviews, look at the specs, talk to my dealer and make up my own mind.

I used to love watching Ward Conner. Beautiful scenery, didn't take himself seriously, and I think he was one of the OG's that for me at least, introduced GM's and then did it again with the tri plex for home ownership. I also think it was funny that Toro tried to give him a mower and he simply handed it offer to his neighbor and we never saw it again. I'm guessing that's not what Toro intended.

I also like the *old* Ryan Knorr and the banter with CW. Seems like he's run out of ideas on videos. How many times can he do videos on sharpening blades? His editing skills though are second too none.

I remember they used to love Ben Sims, brought him out to visit, then never talked about him again. I'm guessing the visit didn't go as well in reality as on video.

Lawn Tools occasionally have good vids, but their vids are pretty useless in general.

All in all I agree with many of the comments. I won't comment on Doc other than to say the guy puts put lots of bad info and changes positions more than politicians depending on whose sponsoring him.

LCN to me isn't all that, and I find the way he talks on his videos when he does the "radio show" format, and JTLK as super annoying. JTLK to me is a mini-LCN and needs to find his own schtick. I keep trying to watch him and after 30 seconds I have to turn it off.

Having said all that, major respect for the time, energy. effort and commitment ALL YouTubers put into their vids. I would never dog them on YT or knock what they do. If they can make money, good for them. However they typically loose my interest after awhile when they go that route.

Oh, and I really like Pete at GCI. Although I need to watch it at 1.5x speed so I don't fall asleep at the speed of explanation, I find him honest, sincere, doesn't act like he's a God, and I support him buy buying product from him as he does not come across as a schill for any products to me.

Even the YT people I don't care for or frankly respect still get a thumbs up for the amount of work they put into it.


----------



## Phids

DFW_Zoysia said:


> Having said all that, major respect for the time, energy. effort and commitment ALL YouTubers put into their vids. I would never dog them on YT or knock what they do. If they can make money, good for them.


Lol - had to laugh when I read that after you had just ragged on many of the popular lawncare Youtubers.


----------



## DFW_Zoysia

Phids said:


> DFW_Zoysia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having said all that, major respect for the time, energy. effort and commitment ALL YouTubers put into their vids. I would never dog them on YT or knock what they do. If they can make money, good for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol - had to laugh when I read that after you had just ragged on many of the popular lawncare Youtubers.
Click to expand...

It wasn't meant that way. My not caring for their content is in no way an attack on their effort and work. Lot's of people like the stuff I don't so it's certainly working for them based on their view counts. Good for them for finding that niche.

I can certainly disagree with something but still want the best for them and hope they are successful....except for How to with doc. LOL.

What I meant about dogging them was the people who post nasty comments against them on their videos on YT who have never tried to make a video themselves. Again, that is different than not caring for their channel.


----------



## Phids

DFW_Zoysia said:


> It wasn't meant that way. My not caring for their content is in no way an attack on their effort and work. Lot's of people like the stuff I don't so it's certainly working for them based on their view counts. Good for them for finding that niche.
> 
> I can certainly disagree with something but still want the best for them and hope they are successful....except for How to with doc. LOL.
> 
> What I meant about dogging them was the people who post nasty comments against them on their videos on YT who have never tried to make a video themselves. Again, that is different than not caring for their channel.


I can understand that. I have had plans on starting my own channel (non-lawn care) but have never gotten around to it, so I think it's great that people take the initiative and create content, even if it's not perfect.

I've also realized that most YT lawncare is directed at average homeowners who don't have much of a clue, which is about 98% of homeowners. Sure, some of their content might seem silly or even shady for people with more experience, but my guess is that Doc or LCN aren't making their videos for regulars at TLF.


----------



## ABC123

thebmrust said:


> I expect the movie Idiocracy to become reality in short-order. :lol:


Best movie ever :lol: Its a must watch if you havent. Also the series of The Good Place is also great.


----------



## Mightyquinn

I consider a majority of the YouTube LawnTubers to be Used Car Salesman as they are pushing products that aren't any better than what you can find locally and trying to get you to pay a premium for their stuff. I also don't buy into the whole premise that just because they are putting the effort in to making videos, they deserve to make money by swindling unsuspecting novices who don't know better into buying their products because they are "Professional Grade" or "Special Ratio of NPK", Just reminds me of "Brawndo, it's what plants crave!!!" There is a huge difference between making an honest dollar and a dollar that you swindled out of someone by lying or twisting the truth.

For awhile I wouldn't watch them but recently I have been watching some of them just so I know what they are up to and when I see someone mention it on here, I already know where they got the info.


----------



## DFW_Zoysia

Mightyquinn said:


> I consider a majority of the YouTube LawnTubers to be Used Car Salesman as they are pushing products that aren't any better than what you can find locally and trying to get you to pay a premium for their stuff. I also don't buy into the whole premise that just because they are putting the effort in to making videos, they deserve to make money by swindling unsuspecting novices who don't know better into buying their products because they are "Professional Grade" or "Special Ratio of NPK", Just reminds me of "Brawndo, it's what plants crave!!!" There is a huge difference between making an honest dollar and a dollar that you swindled out of someone by lying or twisting the truth.
> 
> For awhile I wouldn't watch them but recently I have been watching some of them just so I know what they are up to and when I see someone mention it on here, I already know where they got the info.


I agree with you and I certainly don't support swindlers, it's ALWAYS up to the purchaseor to do their due diligence and rely on more than just one or two videos to make a purchase decision - on any item.

It's like Newsweek (I thinks it was them - I can't keep up with all the has-been magazines) recently named the "best city to live in". However upon reading the fine print the "winning" city finished last for overall desirability, very low job options, poor education, and poor infrastructure. However Newsweeks named it "#1 in America" because "they were committed to green energy", had low housing prices (because no one wanted to be there), and fresh clean air. How many people were misled because they never read the fine print of the judging criteria?

It's just too easy with the internet to do proper research with a simple google search (and when you do this forum always pops up so people can get real info). If someone makes a purchase decision solely on the advice of a YT video, then that is on them and they will have issues in every aspect of their lives if that is how they operate. We can't control things to support the dumbest people in our society or we'd never be allowed to leave our houses. LOL


----------



## briansemerick

DFW_Zoysia said:


> doesn't act like he's a God


Pete doesn't act like a god, but he sure does talk about his religion a lot. Meh on that.


----------



## Redtwin

briansemerick said:


> Pete doesn't act like a god, but he sure does talk about his religion a lot. Meh on that.


One of the BIG reasons I really like his channel, but I can see how that would turn some people away.


----------



## avionics12

Redtwin said:


> briansemerick said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pete doesn't act like a god, but he sure does talk about his religion a lot. Meh on that.
> 
> 
> 
> One of the BIG reasons I really like his channel, but I can see how that would turn some people away.
Click to expand...

+1


----------



## DFW_Zoysia

avionics12 said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> briansemerick said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pete doesn't act like a god, but he sure does talk about his religion a lot. Meh on that.
> 
> 
> 
> One of the BIG reasons I really like his channel, but I can see how that would turn some people away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> +1
Click to expand...

I like Pete and nothing he talks about bothers me. I do however find everything he says better when I play it back at 2x speed. LOL


----------



## Cabinlivin

Ngilbe36 said:


> Amoo316 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's really kind of sad, I've watched a lot of channels destroy themselves and stagnate their viewers once they start getting paid sponsorships and product placements.
> 
> 
> 
> I think this is one of the reasons ProjectFarm is one of the best YT channels out there. He does all his own testing with pretty low tech but effective setups and has no affiliation with any product. He's the hero we dont deserve.
Click to expand...

Completely agree about Project Farm.

I've been hoping Project Farm would tackle more lawn care products, but so far I've only seen him test trimmer line and mower blade sharpeners. He probably would test weed killer, pre-emergent, sprayers, etc. if enough viewers requested.

A viewer put together a list of everything Project Farm has tested to this point:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRSdaMe-QIMjm-ZcfX8mdjY1srdCeJUg2m-IwjSWPKoRhzW5bWos35RGQ-YMR4iZA-iWB68wKegptex/pubhtml


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## frekwentflier

Thank you for posting this list, it's very useful! I find his reviews to be the most accurate.


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## Coop22

I would like to add I wouldn't have found this site if it wasn't for Budget Lawns. Maybe since I'm so new to lawn care I could relate to the simplicity and honesty of his videos. His videos give you that spark to say "I can do my own lawn work". Of course it's for warm season lawns but it benefited me and led me to the Bermuda Bible where there's a wealth of knowledge there!


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