# Irrigation Price Quote



## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Hey Gang,

Had a company come out, survey and provide a price quote for installation of an irrigation system. Looking for some help, feedback or thoughts on what they provided. I've seen within the sub-forum talking about Rancho 2 controller...is it better than the Rainbird one? Are the rotor and spray heads decent or should I ask for something else.

Pricing is right around 3k for 8k square feet of turf, flower beds will not be irrigated.


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## stotea (Jul 31, 2017)

I assume the MP Rotator nozzles are Hunter brand. Both Hunter as a brand and its MP Rotator nozzles are fantastic overall. I don't understand why someone would use anything other than the Hunter constant-pressure spray bodies/heads with those nozzles, though.

I highly recommend requiring a diagram of his proposed layout. That would probably be the best indicator as to if the guy actually knows his stuff. It's also important to know if coverage will be good and irrigation rates will be correct/matched for all sprinklers in each zone. Hopefully he will be able to confirm and prove all that.

Edit: Also, here's a site that has incredible detail on irrigation system design and whatnot. Might be worth checking out. www.irrigationtutorials.com

Edit2: Oops, I just now noticed that he did provide a layout diagram, though I can't say it's very detailed.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

This head placement is wrong. For example: the front yard strip have the heads all in a row. They should be opposing each other. The same on the sides.

Another example of bad placement is in the back. Draw an arc from the head in the very back in the middle. The arc should reach the two corner heads in a 180 shape. But doing that you will notice that the head will throw too much into the house and it will over throw the head on the middle of the yard.

The location of the valve boxes is easy for them, but very noticeable in the backyard. I would place them in the mulch area close to the house.

Do you have other quotes? Trying to convince them of all these changes might not be the best approach. I would ask them that after reviewing the layout , that you want proper head to head coverage. If they push back or can't do it, walk away.

Your yard looks fairly similar to mine. In the 3rd car garage zone I ended up with a lot more heads. Increasing the heads, does increase the price, but not significant.

In the backyard, do you plan to pour a patio or build a deck? If so, plot it in the layout and place the heads around it like it was there.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

g-man said:


> This head placement is wrong. For example: the front yard strip have the heads all in a row. They should be opposing each other. The same on the sides.
> 
> Another example of bad placement is in the back. Draw an arc from the head in the very back in the middle. The arc should reach the two corner heads in a 180 shape. But doing that you will notice that the head will throw too much into the house and it will over throw the head on the middle of the yard.
> 
> ...


I email the designer and see what they say. This is the initial company I called as they are in the same town as me, but I have called a couple other companies and working on getting out.

Backyard is up for debate, but I'll draw out that area and have them revise the layout.



stotea said:


> I assume the MP Rotator nozzles are Hunter brand. Both Hunter as a brand and its MP Rotator nozzles are fantastic overall. I don't understand why someone would use anything other than the Hunter constant-pressure spray bodies/heads with those nozzles, though.
> 
> I highly recommend requiring a diagram of his proposed layout. That would probably be the best indicator as to if the guy actually knows his stuff. It's also important to know if coverage will be good and irrigation rates will be correct/matched for all sprinklers in each zone. Hopefully he will be able to confirm and prove all that.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link. I've got some reading now!


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Huge +1 on Irrigation Tutorials. Even if you do not plan to install the system yourself, knowing what a good system design should look like and communicating exactly what you want to the installer could save you some headaches down the road.


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## Topcat (Mar 21, 2017)

Ware said:


> Huge +1 on Irrigation Tutorials. Even if you do not plan to install the system yourself, knowing what a good system design should look like and communicating exactly what you want to the installer could save you some headaches down the road.


+2 - I had my system installed abut 5 years ago. I did not read up or ask the right questions when the installer quoted a price. The result

1 - One zone had a mix of rotor and spray heads - very uneven watering as a result - Got him to fix it
2 - Two zones had spray heads behind stuff. One had right in front of the mail box, the other was behind shrubbery - Got him to fix it.
3 - Installer installed the controller outside in a weather proof box so he would not have to tunnel under a sidewalk, and run approx 500 extra feet of wire to get it inside - fix ths one myself cause his quote did not include going under the walkway, and the extra wire


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

What are peoples thoughts on going to 100% MP rotator irrigation system as a designer and I were kicking around the idea last week?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

zeus201 said:


> What are peoples thoughts on going to 100% MP rotator irrigation system as a designer and I were kicking around the idea last week?


I irrigate my lawn with 100% MP Rotators. Drip for the beds.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm also 100% MP and I think it is great as long as you don't end up with too many zones. The mp rate is around 0.4in/hr. To get an inch of water it takes a while. Using the rachio, it hardly ever runs all zones the same day.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Current design has 4 zones incorporating all MP heads. Haven't decided on which Rachio to use quite yet, but leaning towards Gen 2 for now.

I only wished they watered a bit faster than ~0.4 in/hr. Overall, are you guys satisfied with MPs, or would you consider something else?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

A low rate is actually better for the soil absorbtion. The mp provides a very even distribution. I really like it.

Two of the minor issues:

-hard water build up in the nozzles. That's is noting CLR can't handle once a year.

-It is not forgiving to incorrect head placement.

Do you have a layout of the heads?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I'm very pleased with mine so far. The matched precipitation rate of 0.4 in/hr across the product line made the design process super easy.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Here is the head layout. Zones on the north side of the house will be installed in the beds . The ones on the south side will be right beside the flower bed there as there is not enough room to put them directly in there.

MP 1000 90-210deg, MP 2000 90-210deg and MP 3000 90-210deg will be used in this design.

What were some of the estimate pricing to have the plumber run 1" line to the exterior of house and drainback valve? Working on getting plumbers to provide estimates.

My ultimate fear is the plumber cost is going to blow my budget...which will lead to the wife questioning the need for irrigation.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

It's hard to tell for sure without knowing dimensions, but the design I'm seeing does not look like it would have 100% head to head coverage - which is achieved in either a square or triangular layout (see page 5 of the MP Rotator Design Guide).

The areas of particular concern are along the sides of the house where there is only a single row of heads - it is pretty much impossible to achieve adequate coverage with a single row of heads without significantly overthrowing. In the image below note how the orange shaded area only gets coverage from the one head, and the red shaded areas get no coverage at all. Those areas would not be getting the MP Rotator 0.4 in/hr precipitation rate. You would have to increase runtime, which would overwater some areas and underwater others. Ideally this area would have an opposing row of heads to form a square or triangular "head-to-head" pattern. Make sense?

​
Here is my system - note how each head is capable of spraying all the way to every adjacent head, ensuring head to head coverage. When designing it, if there was any question about adequate coverage I added a head. A PRS40 body and an MP nozzle are only like $6 each, so it is way cheaper to get it right the first time.

​


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I do not see triangular or square spacing on the narrow areas either. If that is going to be done, those areas need to be separate zones that are not connected to ones with triangular or square spacing.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Couple of quick notes - Rachio Gen 3 comes out this month. Wait for it, do the pre-order. Theres a thread in Irrigation or Equipment (I forget which) about the Gen 3 hardware that has a coupon code.

The price seems fair, I paid about that for a smaller yard. Nozzle choice is great, that's what I went with. I can't speak to the head placement, but Ware is smarter than all of us, and I'd defer to his judgement and check out the irrigation tutorials. I personally didn't, but am happy with my setup thus far.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Ware covered what I was going to type. Typing on the cell is hard.

One thing to add, think about the zones and the sun. Right now the front right and side right are in the same zone, but one might be more shaded. You will end up overwatering one.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Ware said:


> It's hard to tell for sure without knowing dimensions, but the design I'm seeing does not look like it would have 100% head to head coverage - which is achieved in either a square or triangular layout (see page 5 of the MP Rotator Design Guide).
> 
> The areas of particular concern are along the sides of the house where there is only a single row of heads - it is pretty much impossible to achieve adequate coverage with a single row of heads without significantly overthrowing. In the image below note how the orange shaded area only gets coverage from the one head, and the red shaded areas get no coverage at all. Those areas would not be getting the MP Rotator 0.4 in/hr precipitation rate. You would have to increase runtime, which would overwater some areas and underwater others. Ideally this area would have an opposing row of heads to form a square or triangular "head-to-head" pattern. Make sense?
> 
> ...


Thanks for response back everyone!

Scale is 1" = 20'

Here is the odd part, I've meet with 2 different companies and both came back nearly identical head placement. I've been working with the first company primarily as the second one will still respond back. I'm meeting with a 3rd company tomorrow and we will see what their design looks like.

In the back of my mind, I felt like the coverage based on the number of heads thoughout the whole lawn was up for debate. I brought up the head pattern on the north and side south side of the house and creating a triangle pattern. Company stated that since this area is less than ~8' wide this would be an ideal setup.

Comparing spray patterns, there is for sure room for improvement, especially after reading the PDF. I'll talk to the designer again and see what they say.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Been laying out the irrigation design for a couple weeks now and looking for another set of eyes to review where I am at. I tried to achieve 100% head to head coverage but certain areas I struggled to achieve that.

I've got to two different layouts for the backyard: 1 MP2000 (360) and 2 MP2000 (360). Unsure if 2 is needed or just go with 1. Also lost some resolution with the conversion from DWG to PDF to PNG.

The back left corner in the backyard was purposely left alone as that will be part of the garden box extension.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

A few quick thoughts...

1) The coverage in the red box area concerns me. I'm not sure what the dimensions are, but just looking at it I would be inclined to add 3 more heads in the middle.

2) You could probably clean up the area in the orange box a little with a 270° head near the landscaping and a 180° head adjacent to it at the property line.

3) I would consider adding a heads where the blue arrows are. If two sprinklers are spraying into the corner, there should be a head there spraying away from the corner back toward the other heads - the way you did it in the corners of the back yard.

4) What are the dimensions of the hell strips? Did you consider using MP Side Strips for these?


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Thanks Ware!

- Hell strip dimension: 26' (L) x 9.5" (W). I completely forgot about the MP side strips. I'll check those out.

- I struggled with the orange box area. I'll make changes there too.

- Red box: 39'9" (L) x 36' (W). Thinking adding a few 360s in that area would be beneficial?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

So with a 64x36' back yard I would probably arrange MP2000s into a 5x3 grid... 16' between heads on the long side of the rectangle, and 18' between heads on the short side (which you've already done). Set the spray radius at ~18' for all those heads - the 1' extra overlap at each end of the heads spaced 16' apart will not hurt anything.

It's easy to focus in on a specific area when placing heads, but I wouldn't be afraid to use 180° or 270° where they will fit - even if it means their spray extends into a different zone (as long as the precipitation rates match). More often than not you will be running both zones on the same day, so the total precipitation will work out. Just focus on maintaining head to head spacing.

The MP corner and side strip heads are designed to cover 5x15' and 5x30', respectively.



You could set up 2 rows to get the ~10' width you need, but I would probably just use 2 rows of MP1000's in a 4x2 grid... 9'6" apart between the curb and sidewalk, and 8'8" apart on the long side. Here again, the extra overlap on the long side of the rectangle will be minimal. That is basically what I did below.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Ware have you great advise and I agree with it.

The bottom corner of the 3rd car garage driveway will need a corner spray head. That's the only way to do that corner. I have a similar driveway.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Looping back to this:

Took everyone's feedback, updated the design, sent out the plan to bid and choose a installer. After a couple months of waiting, Irrigation was finally installed on Monday. Now awaiting on my cups from Amazon to perform audit.

In the meantime, is there anything that be done to relevel the lines where the poly lines were pulled? Installers said they will eventually settle, but with anything lawn related, patience runs thin.

I've thought about buying a tamper and going to town on those sections. Thoughts?


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## pintail45 (Apr 26, 2018)

You could do that or rent a lawn roller from Home Depot.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You have a roller. Use your gm1000 with the reel off. Run it parallel to the trench lines, idely lifting the front so all the weight is in the back roller.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

g-man said:


> You have a roller. Use your gm1000 with the reel off. Run it parallel to the trench lines, idely lifting the front so all the weight is in the back roller.


+1, I have done this. Works well when the ground is a little soft after rainfall or irrigation. :thumbup:


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Ware said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > You have a roller. Use your gm1000 with the reel off. Run it parallel to the trench lines, idely lifting the front so all the weight is in the back roller.
> ...





g-man said:


> You have a roller. Use your gm1000 with the reel off. Run it parallel to the trench lines, idely lifting the front so all the weight is in the back roller.


 :thumbup: good idea. I"ll start there.


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## Smokindog (Jun 20, 2018)

I don't know how much effort that is to remove the reel but the roller that HD rents is light weight when empty and only $13 for 4 hours or $18 for a day. I bought one at Northerntool when they were on sale for $99.99 and I had a $20 off coupon. Looks like they're on sale again and my coupon book just arrived on Saturday! It has a removable handle and pin so it can be pulled with a lawn tractor as well.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200381785_200381785

I trenched about 100 yards 13" deep earlier this year to extend and split a zone. After I was done and backfilled I used a hose to run "just more than a trickle" over the trench, moving it about 3 yards every 5-10 minutes or so. The trench was settled after doing this twice. I top dressed it and rolled it and in a week or so the Bermuda had covered it.

Same exact roller








zeus201 said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> > g-man said:
> ...


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Smokindog said:


> I don't know how much effort that is to remove the reel...


By "with the reel off" g-man just meant "disengaged". :thumbup:


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Yes, just not moving so it doesnt cause any damage to any section. This weekend I removed some rocks (12 5 gallon buckets) and back filled with topsoil. I used my 220E to help level it. It is not perfect.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Looking for some ideas on what is going with a head. I started to notice a sprinkler head was trickling water out even after a cycle ended. I dug up the area and found if I moved the body / MP above grade, the trickling would end. If I moved it right at grade or little below, it will trickle out water from underneath where the MP head seats against the body.

In the picture I took the MP rotator off for to help visualize what is going on. Thoughts on what to check as I have it temporarily above grade which isn't ideal.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I can't read the top of the body. Is it a CV( Check valve) type?


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Rainbird 1800 series body. I am wondering if body has some dirt in it and not sealing correctly?


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Replace with "seal-a-matic" 1800 sprinkler body. Should solve the issue if I understand the problem correctly. It flows the remaining water in the distribution piping when the water is turned off - that is the issue?

http://www.rainbird.com/products/1800-sam-series-spray-heads


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Delmarva Keith said:


> Replace with "seal-a-matic" 1800 sprinkler body. Should solve the issue if I understand the problem correctly. It flows the remaining water in the distribution piping when the water is turned off - that is the issue?
> 
> http://www.rainbird.com/products/1800-sam-series-spray-heads


That pretty much sums it up as I checked out the zone valve and it was clean. Any benefit replacing all of the bodies with the SAMs outside of burning some cash.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

zeus201 said:


> Delmarva Keith said:
> 
> 
> > Replace with "seal-a-matic" 1800 sprinkler body. Should solve the issue if I understand the problem correctly. It flows the remaining water in the distribution piping when the water is turned off - that is the issue?
> ...


Any where they are so low that the flow from what's left in the pipe after it shuts off causes damage or a problem. I've even seen fungus streaks from where the water flows out of low heads after shutoff. I'd recommend keeping a stock of spare sprinkler bodies and nozzles on hand so might as well order a bunch and you can use them in the low spots in your zones.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Is it really that big of a problem? All my sprays that are at the bottom of my zone(its very slightly inclined) all spurt out a bit of water while down for an additional 20-30 seconds once the zone is off. One benefit i suppose is my lines wont freeze. :lol:


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