# Matt's Lawn Renovation



## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

Hello Lawn Care Forum,

I've decided to take on a renovation (My First). I've been following this forum for a while, and all the celebrities (LCN, GCI-Turf, GrassDaddy, Ryan Knorr, etc.) on YouTube as well. I've also been reading books and educating myself on turf care.

A little back story... The first summer when I met my fiancé the lawn was thin and full of creeping charlie, and various other kinds of weeds. Lots of bare spots as well. It received no fertilizer or weed preventers, and she wasn't cutting it properly. I believe it all caused more harm than good. She had also mentioned she thought there were grubs at some point. This ignited a purpose to get the lawn turned around and how I discovered this world of lawn care enthusiasts. Once I moved in, I really set out to help it along and give it proper care. Best thing I had to start with was an irrigation system that I fired up after several years of no use.

I've managed to get the backyard in alright shape, but we have dogs so that is a battle that never ends ;-) However, I've never liked the front lawn. I grew up with bluegrass and this lawn was a northern mix of just about everything... Fine Fescue mostly, weeds, and K31 clumps... It just never looked nice to me. So, I decided to replace it this fall.

*Materials:*
Glysophate (Roundup)
SeedSuperStore SS1100 KBG Blend (Award, Midnight, Bewitched)
Soil Moist
N-EXT Bio-stimulant Package
Lawn Roller
Manual Aerator
Electric Dethatcher
Tackifier Soil Stabilizer
Tenacity
Scotts Starter Fertilizer with Weed Preventer
Peat Moss
Top Soil

Start of Lawn: Google Maps Shot-


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*July 31st:*

First application of Glysophate (41% HDX Brand)

Picture of lawn 1 day after application-


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*August 2nd:*

Soil Test taken and results returned on August 8th-


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*August 6th:*

Photo of lawn on August 8th, several days after Glysophate application-


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*August 9th:*

Lawn is scalped to lowest level my mower permitted-


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

mmicha said:


> *August 9th:*
> 
> Lawn is scalped to lowest level my mower permitted-


Looking crispy


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Nice work :thumbup:


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*August 10th:*

Dethatched lawn area-


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*August 11:*

Leveling low spots in lawn-


Cracked open some of the supplies-


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I love the sign! I've been using that Menards topsoil too. It is really good.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> I love the sign! I've been using that Menards topsoil too. It is really good.


That was the fiance. She felt we needed to explain things. I figure no one notice the color difference


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

The sign is too good! I love that you used an electric dethatcher and a manual one. That is a nice looking seed bed. When is seed down day?


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*August 12:*

The tools are ready to rock for seed day!-


Throwing down some starter fertilizer with weed preventer-


Rolling in the seed after wetting the seed bed-


Peat moss down and ready for watering-


Watering time! 7 a.m., 11 a.m., 3 p.m. & 7 p.m.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

I still need to add a tackifier (M-Binder) to the top.

Not sure if I used enough peat moss or not however. Any feedback? I did a nice layer over things not to thick.

I thought about using liquid tenacity and a seperate starter fertilizer, but since I had the combined starter with weed already I choose to just use that.

Also curious on watering schedule. I have the last watering at 7 p.m., but do I need another at 10 p.m. or later. Right now the areas water for 5 minutes each. It seems to soak pretty well with little puddling.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

pennstater2005 said:


> The sign is too good! I love that you used an electric dethatcher and a manual one. That is a nice looking seed bed. When is seed down day?


I hit it with glysophate yesterday and seeded today. I also hit it with RGS and Air8. Hopefully this works!


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

I watered 2x a day until the area was soaked each time......between 5-10 minutes. Basically, I kept my seed moist. If it dries out it will die. I wouldn't water again until morning. If the area still looks wet at 7 pm after your prior watering I also wouldn't water again.

It is possible to over water.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*August 16:*

An update on things. I put down a tackifier (M-Binder) & some mulch pellets due to a storm we had last night. Had some hot days and the humidity has been high as well since seeding. Starting to see mushrooms which I believe are harmless. However, also seeing a small area of white mold (Mycelium) growing on the soil after the rain last night. I believe that is also harmless but no watering for today so far. Letting things soak up. Overall everything is still good, and no rainout.

Starting to see some mushrooms popping up-


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Looking good!


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*August 17:*

I had some rain over last two days. Not super heavy, and everything stayed in place using tackifiers. Germination has started, and that is a relief. It's hell waiting for something to sprout. All I've seen is ants running away with it, lol.

Germination has begun. Zoomed in obviously-


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Looking very good! Nice work so far!


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*August 20:*

The lawn has a nice green haze over the area and things are sprouting all around (1 Week)-


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*August 24:*

It is starting to resemble a lawn again. Rain in the forecast for today-


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

Put seed down same day as you, looks like where pretty close. The race is on to who mows first. I think i am entering the sprout and pout phase now, are you seeing the same?


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

iowa jim said:


> Put seed down same day as you, looks like where pretty close. The race is on to who mows first. I think i am entering the sprout and pout phase now, are you seeing the same?


I've been following your thread as well. I think I'm in the sprout and pout too... I heard it can take a month or two before mowing... Planning on fertilizing around 30 days and maybe a second tenacity application as well. For now I try to keep it moist and hope for more shoots!

It makes me think of some test plots I planted ahead of this project. I did one of each of the cool season grasses: KBG, PRG, and TTTF

They were all Scotts brand just to play around... The TTTF is doing the best, then PRG, then KBG. Everyone who sees the three asks which I planted and I have to sadly say the thinnest one ;-) Like the tortoise and the hare, lol


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

At the rate mine is growing i will be lucky to get a mow in this fall. Maybe I'm being inpatient, have to quit looking at it so often but i just can't help myself. Are you seeing any tillering on yours as i am not on mine? Im planning to start with spoon feeding apps of ammonium sulphate 30 days after my last reseeding date of germination, which i don't know the date yet as it hasn't started to germinate yet. My money is on you to win the race to the first mow.


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## KHARPS (Jun 21, 2018)

Looking good. I put my kbg down the day after you and I have hardly any germination at this point.


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

KHARPS said:


> Looking good. I put my kbg down the day after you and I have hardly any germination at this point.


I will be posting pics of my reno Sunday, not sure to much has changed as i think i am starting the sprout and pout phase.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*August 31: *(20 days since seed down)

It's been 20 days since seed down. Starting to get some weed pressure, mostly crab grass. Overall I think I'm doing pretty well on the progress report. The area near the street is having a bit more difficulty. I did reseed a few areas last night to try and get some stronger growth.

Thinking next week I'll hit it with some fertilizer and tenacity at 4 oz. per 1k to knock out some of the weeds. However, doesn't seem like its anywhere near ready to be cut, but I'm not sure at what length I should be looking to give it a first snip.

I just continue to water daily several times...


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

iowa jim said:


> At the rate mine is growing i will be lucky to get a mow in this fall. Maybe I'm being inpatient, have to quit looking at it so often but i just can't help myself. Are you seeing any tillering on yours as i am not on mine? Im planning to start with spoon feeding apps of ammonium sulphate 30 days after my last reseeding date of germination, which i don't know the date yet as it hasn't started to germinate yet. My money is on you to win the race to the first mow.


I didn't see this reply... @iowa jim sorry for the late response.

I believe several days ago I pulled some grass that was growing in the cracks of the pavers and saw some tillering on them. I'll have to take a closer look today when I get home and update you on that status. I'll also get a measurement of the grass cause I don't think mine is near cutting status either. I'm not really to certain on what length to grab the mower...

It's interesting to watch others doing renos of KBG. I feel like you and I are very close in pace, but some @JDgreen18 seem to be having a tougher time.

It's crazy however to look at the progress through the photos I post, cause day to day it doesn't seem like much is happening until I look back...

I reference @Pete1313 thread a bit, as well as his previous one on ATY. I even read back over it to see if I miss anything. Its a great read...


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

mmicha said:


> iowa jim said:
> 
> 
> > At the rate mine is growing i will be lucky to get a mow in this fall. Maybe I'm being inpatient, have to quit looking at it so often but i just can't help myself. Are you seeing any tillering on yours as i am not on mine? Im planning to start with spoon feeding apps of ammonium sulphate 30 days after my last reseeding date of germination, which i don't know the date yet as it hasn't started to germinate yet. My money is on you to win the race to the first mow.
> ...


I also noticed some tillering yesterday. I take pics once a week to see the progress as that really helps. JDgreen18 posted some recent pics and he is catching up to us very quick.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

@mmicha I think the biggest issue is not really understanding how long it takes for a kbg reno to get going. Even tho they say 30 days to germinate it really doesnt sink in. Then that leaves so much time for bad stuff to happen like downpours. Ive done renos before, none with all kbg. All my other renos I was mowing already. It def tests your patients.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would ignore the weeds for now. Tenacity would go down at 30 days post germination, so you still have some time to wait. Crabgrass looks ugly, but tenacity will take care of it.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> I would ignore the weeds for now. Tenacity would go down at 30 days post germination, so you still have some time to wait. Crabgrass looks ugly, but tenacity will take care of it.


Fertilizer would be the same? 30 days post seed down or germination...?

What would be best approach for that? Synthetic or organic


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*September 13:* 33 days since seed down

Everything seems to be moving right along. Hoping to give it a first cutting shortly at around 1.5". As well as start a weekly dose of urea feedings.

Weeds are starting to overpower some in spots, but going to try manually removing some and possibly eventually hit everything with a tenacity application.

Area on the city side seems to have a bit more to go, but it is a challenging spot to water and has probably had some neglect in this process...


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

looks very good for 33 days. I am at 19 days. It has not come in as quickly as yours did, but I am still seeing growth. It's a slooooow process with KBG. It's my first time doing a reno with KBG, and it's very agonizing at times.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

Mrotatori said:


> looks very good for 33 days. I am at 9 days. It has not come in as quickly as yours did, but I am still seeing growth. It's a slooooow process with KBG. It's my first time doing a reno with KBG, and it's very agonizing at times.


I've never done a reno either. I have to say taking photos is a great help to see the progress. It can be hard to see day after day the changes. My fiance was almost going to kill me when she saw what glysophate does to grass after two weeks when I started. I should have prepped her that part, lol. Now since it looks more like a lawn she is okay with it...

I owe a lot to this forum however, I follow threads by @Pete1313 and look to @g-man and others for assistance. Keep watering and grass will grow ;-)


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Fyi, it looks ready for nitrogen.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> Fyi, it looks ready for nitrogen.


Hey @g-man , you don't think it is a good point to do a second app of tenacity? We were talking in a seperate post about just pulling crab grass, etc.

My head wants to do this:

Tenacity application, wait a few days

Cut the lawn to 1.5"

Fertilize with small dose of urea weekly.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Tenacity label is 30days post germination or two mowings. You are not there yet. It might be ok, but why risk it? Hand pull what you can and mow and fertilize.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*Sept 17:* 37 days since seeding

Pulled some of the larger weeds. Gave the lawn its first cut at around 1.5". Applied its first weekly feeding of urea at 0.2lbs per 1k.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Matt, that looks awesome.


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

Looks great Matt and that color is really starting to pop.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

Mrotatori said:


> looks very good for 33 days. I am at 19 days. It has not come in as quickly as yours did, but I am still seeing growth. It's a slooooow process with KBG. It's my first time doing a reno with KBG, and it's very agonizing at times.


Ain't this the truth....I was second guessing myself for 3-4 weeks as it was slow going. Then boom I had a lawn. Still not perfect but its getting there. Where in Ct are In in the new haven area.
@mmicha its looking awesome.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

Hey @g-man ,

Should I be cutting my watering down to 1x per day at this point. I've still been going multiple times a day. I don't know now that I'm doing urea feedings, how much water it needs to get. I know that needs to be watered in well.

My thought was water 1x in the morning, then after 45-50 days every other day 1x.

I've got a couple zones, but at most they get is 2 minutes of water.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Yes you should start decreasing the frequency and increasing the duration. There is easy schedule to follow now. It takes some trial an error to figure out what and how much. Start by twice a day (am and 1pm?) then once a day, then every other day. It is ok for the soil to dry out between watering, but you dont want to see signs of the grass going into stress. We are supposed to get out of 90F, so it should be easier.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

Hey @g-man ,

I'm planning my second cut and feeding after work today. Later this week thinking of doing an application of weed killer to knock stuff out. It got me thinking though, everyone says go with Tenacity. Yet at this point something like a 3 way herbicide like Weed b Gon could be applied I believe.

Is Tenacity the best option still? Due to the pre-emergent capabilities?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Just use the best product for your intended target weed. Tenacity is pretty good.


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

Im going with tenacity if anything as I'm little nervous about applying a herbicide now when the grass is starting to slow down. Weeds dye better when there growing there best and that is probably in the spring. This new grass is still pretty tender and i would hate to have burn spots on my reno going into winter. There will be other weeds pop up in the spring even if you do kill most of them now. That is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

iowa jim said:


> Im going with tenacity if anything as I'm little nervous about applying a herbicide now when the grass is starting to slow down. Weeds dye better when there growing there best and that is probably in the spring. This new grass is still pretty tender and i would hate to have burn spots on my reno going into winter. There will be other weeds pop up in the spring even if you do kill most of them now. That is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.


That's a good point. The major thing I see is crab grass. First frost is going to kill that off, so maybe I just do without a herbicide... Next year hit everything with a pre-emergent and be done.


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

Good plan.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*September 27:* (47 days since seeding)

Did the second cut on Monday at around 1.5" - 9/24, and second feeding of urea at .2 lbs per 1000k. Grass looking good overall in main area of lawn photographed. Does have some thin spots still needing to spread. Street area much more in need of spreading to really fill in. It may need some over-seeding next spring.

Wife seems very pleased with progress ;-) However did notice an area near sidewalk on right side that is a little lighter in color over the rest and after closer exam seems to have some fungus on leaves. Not sure if it is something to be concerned about or not...

Also cut back on watering to once a day for a minute or two per zone.

Photo from this afternoon-


Fungus - Dollar Spot, Brown Patch?


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

Hey @g-man ,

Does that fungus look like leaf spot? I'm not sure if I should leave it or be treating this with something. Little help ;-) Below is a shot of the area and variation in color...


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

On one of the previous images I think I see the spots. Apply a Fungicide.


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

@mmicha I see what you are saying. Mine looks very similar to yours. It is a light green grass surrounded by darker grass. Now I am wondering if it's a fungicide.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*October 22:* 72 days since seed down.

I just wanted to update my thread with the latest as it has been a little while. I've been dealing with a fungus that I believe is yellow patch. It doesn't seem to be spreading, but not what I wanted to see and thought I would see as temperatures cooled.

The grass was also treated with WBG to knock some of the crab grass about 2 weeks ago. Still has the browning remains of those... It got a cut on Saturday and a fertilizer application for winter. Overall I'm pleased with the transformation from what it was to where it is heading!

I'm not sure how many more updates there may be as it has gotten very cool in Chicago now and winter is approaching sadly ;-(

Some pictures from today-


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*April 18, 2019:* (249 days since seeding)

It's a new spring after renovation. Pretty happy overall with where everything is at. I've got a few spots that are thin and need some tending to. I'm thinking of growing a little KBG from the same seed in a little plot/garden and pull plugs later on to fill areas. As I believe the space is too large to fill in naturally for KBG.

The only thing that has been done so far this year about a week or so ago:

3 month application of Prodiamine
3/4 pound of N from organic fertilizer
RGS / Air8



Overall pretty happy with how its looking. That one area is ligher near bottom. It appeared lighter as well last year if you look back. Thought I had fungus. Not sure what is going on there. Hoping it corrects as it warms up.



This area needs some attention.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Matt, welcome back. That area should close up. If you place a plug in the center, it should spread faster. You can steal a plug from the border near the back mulch bed.

Also, go with fast acting nitrogen (AS or urea) at 0.25lb N/week. Young grass needs nitrogen in the young roots. It looks like it could use some N.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> Matt, welcome back. That area should close up. If you place a plug in the center, it should spread faster. You can steal a plug from the border near the back mulch bed.
> 
> Also, go with fast acting nitrogen (AS or urea) at 0.25lb N/week. Young grass needs nitrogen in the young roots. It looks like it could use some N.


Hey @g-man

Glad to be back... Been reading and getting excited again for lawn season in Chicago...

Are you saying the whole lawn needs fast acting N still weekly? I was doing that till the end of season last year like you suggested... Or just this section to help push it to fill in?

I did apply an organic fert (10-0-2) in the last week across everything @ 3/4 lb.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Organic are slow right now with cool temps.

Your Reno is still young and could benefit from more nitrogen (spoon feeding) across the entire area. I started to do it to my Reno. It helps to make it more robust and spread.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

*April 25, 2019:*

Spoon fed the lawn with urea at 0.25lbs per k on Monday (22nd).

My Pro Plugger came in the mail, so pulled some plugs and placed in bare spots. Also took an extra and figured try growing it outside everything to see better how bluegrass spreads.



@g-man, I've got this area that still has some filling to do, however after winter it looks the roughest of my grass. Any concerns? This photo is in full sun. Seems compacted and/or thatchy. I did use Air8 a few weeks ago but didn't focus heavy on this spot.

Planning first cut tonight at 2.5".


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

How is the soil underneath? Rocks?


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> How is the soil underneath? Rocks?


@g-man ,
Earlier in the week I went around with a screw driver and tested some spots. I believe in this area I wasn't finding anything funky going on below. I'll double check when I get home. It just looks thin, dry and possibly cracking of soil? Not really sure how to proceed with it... I have a hand aerator and could plug holes but that would break pre-em on that space. Hit it with a bunch of Air8?

The other area where I put fungus app down last year and coming in lighter this year I've found has a ton of rock or crap below which I'm guessing is restricting the roots. May address that in fall...


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

Hey @g-man ,

I'm still trying to figure out why the turf in these areas seems weak. Might do a soil test on these areas to decode more...

We've had a lot of rain in Chicago lately and throughout April. As well as snow. I got out to look more when I did a spoon feeding early tonight and saw this...

Fungus or just heavy moisture? I was thinking leaf spot maybe? If I look close at the turf I can find straw like blades buried that are toast (melted out?). As well as stuff randomly mixed like below...


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Be patient you haven't even warmed up yet if you're still dealing with snow.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Matt, Im not sure it is a fungus. The tip of the green blade has a dot with a brown edge.

Since this is a young new yard from a Reno, let's play it safe and apply azoxy.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@mmicha how is it looking? Improving? Getting worst?


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> @mmicha how is it looking? Improving? Getting worst?


Hey @g-man,

I put down Disease-X as you suggested and did a cut yesterday. Overall as temps have warmed up the turf looks nicer overall. I actually even pulled some plugs on one side spot to see if it made any improvement and applied some Air8.

About a week or so ago I also did do a soil test and took samples from areas that looked to be struggling, matted down more. Below is the results.

I know soil savvy isn't the most highly recommended, but I had the kit on the shelf... I was thinking maybe the yellower spots is chlorosis with lack of iron? pH is a little high...


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

K looks pretty low which is helpful for new seedlings and disease resistance. Can you find some SOP (sulfate of potash)?

Also I think you're right, you could use some iron.

Since it looks like your N is low too, I would buy a bag of Ringer and throw it down, it will give you N and K without any P.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

Jconnelly6b said:


> K looks pretty low which is helpful for new seedlings and disease resistance. Can you find some SOP (sulfate of potash)?
> 
> Also I think you're right, you could use some iron.
> 
> Since it looks like your N is low too, I would buy a bag of Ringer and throw it down, it will give you N and K without any P.


I've got some Simply Organic I can throw down with some Ironite. See how things look...


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

Just an update to my lawn for anyone that has followed my project:

Lawn is just shy coming up on 1 year old in August since seed down.

I'm a little PO'd as I hired a landscaper to do some work on the front steps and paver walkway. He thought it would be a good idea to use roundup to kill weeds or something along edges and so there is burnout all up the walk on the edges.





This is where we were when I started this transformation last August:


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Looks good! Hopefully those burn spots will ease away over the next few weeks.

Sometimes hiring people is the worst thing to do. I do just about everything I have the time to, and can't stand when I gotta have someone else work on my property.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

If they sealed them, then the chemicals could cause damage. Hose water those areas to flush the chemicals.

Overall it is looking great. I know you had some struggles this spring, but it seems to be good now. Right?


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

Hey @g-man ,

There are still some spots that need to fill in from the reno and now the landscaper. I can tell they are closing in, and I've moved plugs into those spaces as well.

It seems like certain areas the turf struggles a bit more... Not sure exactly why but even looking back at old lawn it seems those areas may have as well. Not sure if something going on below or not.

Overall, I'm happy with the transformation and progress of everything.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

The grass is days over one year since germination and as of yesterday this is how it is looking.

I have an area (small strip) on the other side of the trees that didn't do very well I Believe do to shade. I had the trees trimmed up, and I've dug it all out. I am going to try planting some Mazama in that locations and see what happens.


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