# The Great Grass Experiment - Weekly Updates



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Week 1 Timelapse 



Week 2 Timelapse 



Week 3 Timelapse 



Week 4 Timelapse 




So, i have a grow light setup for growing seedlings, and since its a bit early for that i figured why not use it for a little experimentation as we head into fall and winter.

My rough idea is to get a single plant growing, and to try different things to test its growth and spreading in a relatively controlled environment and see just how big i can get by Spring. Our storage room is a steady 70F, although under the lights the soil should sit at around 70-75F for 16 hours a day, with 8 hours of no lights. Obviously this isn't real world having such consistent light and temperature, this is giving the best possible conditions I can with the setup i have currently. They will be under 6K(blueish) spectrum light to force this even more so.

Camera takes images every 60 minutes - Make/share timelapse video/gifs of growth every 7 days. 
Possibly share/stream live video, who said watching grass grow is boring?

Plot 1 - Single Mazama seed/plant - baseline nothing is done to this but normal watering, no fertilizer applied. Cut low(Roughly .75")
Plot 2 - Plot 1 Cut High(4")
Plot 3 - Single Mazama seed/plant - baseline + weekly fert - May use simple 5-1-1 Alaska fish fertilizer since i have it around and seems like i cant overdose. Cut low.
Plot 4 - Pot 3 Cut High(4")
Plot 5 - Single Mazama seed/plant - baseline + fert + PGR(once established). Cut Low.
Plot 6 - Plot 5 Cut High(4")
Plot 7 - Single Banfield PRG seed/plant - Because i have some and its a highly rated NTEP variety. 
Plot 8 - Single Sabre 4 Poa Trivialis seed - Yes at one point i considered planting Poa Triv in my super shady spots. I want to see how well it grows and spreads compared to KBG

I want to see how quickly a single KBG plant under ideal conditions can start spreading and fill in a space. Currently they are in small pots but will repot the ones that are clearly thriving and outgrowing their containers when the time comes.

Possible other pots i can think of currently KBG + Triv, or PRG + Triv and have them fight it out and see who loses to Triv first. Not sure if thats all that interesting.

Seem interesting? Do people care? Total waste of time? Let me know :lol:

Or If you have any suggestion's or change's you'd like to see tested please let me know.


----------



## Mtsdream (May 2, 2019)

I think its a great idea, i tried to search recently for single seed growth but came up empty. Wish you had a couple tttf seeds to add, would love to see how much they tiller. Maybe cut pictures back to every hour, lol.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

When you say single, do you mean one seed? If so, I think you should create multiple pots(alka repetitions) in case one doesn't germinate or does.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

g-man said:


> When you say single, do you mean one seed? If so, I think you should create multiple pots(alka repetitions) in case one doesn't germinate or does.


Yea i was thinking of this, i'll probably plant 10 in each pot near the center and pull all but 1.


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Well, if you are taking suggestions...
I don't think a triv vs pratensis match is too exciting. Results would probably make us sad. On the other hand, I did notice that Hogan's sells triv cultivars. What is that about?

My alternative suggestion for plot 8: TTTF vs KY31
Compare color, blade width, and rhizomatic activity.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

social port said:


> Well, if you are taking suggestions...
> I don't think a triv vs pratensis match is too exciting. Results would probably make us sad. On the other hand, I did notice that Hogan's sells triv cultivars. What is that about?
> 
> My alternative suggestion for plot 8: TTTF vs KY31
> Compare color, blade width, and rhizomatic activity.


Interesting i'd think it would be a pretty large difference, i can see if i can get TTTF from a co-worker but not sure where to get KY31. Maybe goto a siteone and shake some TTTF contractors mix bags and see if 10 seeds fall out :lol:

The experiment has begun. (I modified the OP with the correct numbers to keep it easier to remember what gets what, and keeping the tall grass in the back)


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> but not sure where to get KY31.


@Powhatan 's KY31 always looks surprisingly good to me. He got his from Tractor Supply. Green bag, I believe. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4907. You don't want the other bag of KY31 that they sell.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

We dont have Tractor Supply stores around here in Oregon, i'll drop by some other farm supply stores though and see if they have it or something similar.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

social port said:


> Well, if you are taking suggestions...
> I don't think a triv vs pratensis match is too exciting. Results would probably make us sad. On the other hand, I did notice that Hogan's sells triv cultivars. What is that about?
> 
> My alternative suggestion for plot 8: TTTF vs KY31
> Compare color, blade width, and rhizomatic activity.


I did think of an interesting experiment though for the Triv, i will do the 'recommended' Tenacity schedule of 4oz + 2oz every week for several weeks to see if i can actually kill Triv with Tenacity. I am not convinced it works myself having tried on what i believe is Triv and having it come back after 4 apps.


----------



## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

If you have a Walmart around d you they usually sell KY31 seed. It shouldn't be too hard to find


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> > Well, if you are taking suggestions...
> ...


I've seen triv compared to bermuda in terms of how much of a nightmare it is (e.g., spreads quickly, impossible to kill). I've always wondered why triv fighters aren't keen to try cocktails to get rid of it in 1-2 shots. Maybe that is practiced, and I just haven't been paying attention? Of course, the perk of Tenacity is that you get to keep your good grass when you spray it.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

PRG Wins as expected on day 4. That said i am a bit shocked at how fast it grew. It wasnt there last night, this morning its 1/2" tall? Pretty crazy seeing it happen in images.

I'll post the first gif/video this weekend. Im not expecting much happening on anything but the PRG plot.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Plot 5 mazama + fert has popped up also near the end of day 4. PRG plot has a second sprout.

I gotta say I've grown PRG, but when you see a single seedling growing by itself its astounding how fast it happens.

Literally in 24 hours, 7pm yesterday when it first was visible to 7pm tonight its at a measured 1" height above the soil already. I may actually be cutting this thing by day 7.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Pictures?


----------



## greengrass (Sep 9, 2018)

Lowe's has KY31


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

g-man said:


> Pictures?


I'll be posting the gif on Sunday of it growing once i get a full week.

That said here's the single stalk. Its growing consistently 1/2" every 12 hours at this point for the last 36 hours.
This one must have been closer to the top to take off so fast. Expecting the others to pop out soon.

The Mazama was a false alarm, it was a weed of some sort that opened its first leaves last night and i pulled.

The room and soil is a consistent 80F or so under the lights.


----------



## Canuck Mike (Jul 23, 2018)

Very cool project, I had started one last week but not nearly as diverse. 
This is my PRG on day 7. Leaf hight is 2.5" 
and what's cool about the glass container is to see the roots reaching the bottom. 3" from soil surface. I wish I has chosen a deeper container.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Not sure what height to cut the Rye too? Any votes?


----------



## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

:thumbup: 
Very interesting!


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

So this camera i've been using i have been listing on Ebay forever but no one ever bought, apparently someone actually did buy it now.

Good news is it gives me money to buy 2 other camera's, so i will hopefully be able to fit another 8 pots in and will try to get TTTF next week once i have everything else.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Week 1 complete. Go full screen to be able to see well. Plot 7 is where the only action is this week as expected.
Poa Triv and Mazama both started to peek their heads out at day 7.
When the Rye reached 3 inches i cut it back to 1.5", i think its at 2.5" again a day later.

[media]https://youtu.be/bXt6JVdNv4k[/media]


----------



## ThickAndGreen (Sep 8, 2017)

This is good stuff, crazy to see how fast PRG grows. Another thing I think would be interesting to test would be to put a few *** and few TTTF seeds on separate sides of a pot and see if KBG eventually chokes out the TTTF or if it survives.


----------



## ChicagoLawn (Apr 7, 2019)

This is great!


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

I'm hoping to come up with a better camera solution coming up, right now its just the camera balancing on a box. Which as you can tell got knocked over a few times and lost the same view which i'd like to maintain the entire week.

The next few weeks will be a bit more interesting as the rest of the seeds are starting to pop out, surprisingly so far it doesnt seem like the fertilizer plots are much ahead of the non fertilized ones, but we should see that change once plants are established.


----------



## cfinden (Aug 7, 2018)

This is my new favorite thread. Nice work!


----------



## Buffalolawny (Nov 24, 2018)

At 400 Seaweed : 1 Water





 Buffalo "St Aug" Grass





 Tomato Plant





 Cotton Plants





 Corn Plants

Might Help with the germination of the grass


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Week 2 Complete
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSO_7DZ4zrI[/media]
My camera wasnt recording for a day and i didnt realize it, so but i've fixed the issue so it wont happen again.

Overall every KBG plot has sprouted at this point and some are reaching 2" and already their second leaves.

The PRG has been cut back several times now to 1", i try to cut it down when its around 1.25-1.5" depending on how fast it is growing as i really only get a chance to look at it before and after work.

The triv is going strong as well in the back. No source for KY31 yet but i'll keep looking.

I'm also updating my camera to back to every 10 minutes, not 60. I'd like the end video to be a bit smoother if possible.


----------



## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

@FuzzeWuzze Are you looking for a specific brand of KY31 or something? So confused how you can't find it lol Literally walk into any Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Farm Supply store, etc and they all sell KY31. Maybe my area is just unique idk.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

TBF Its been a busy week so i havent looked that hard


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Time for another weekly update. This week and weeks going forward i've changed it to take images every 10 minutes for a more fluid video. Let me know if you think its any better or worse. Again i recommend full screen so you can properly see what's going on. Also whatever is crawling around in Plot 3 is creeping me the F out.






Figured i'd do a bit more in depth update one each plot

Plots 1 is by far the weakest of them all in terms of size, although it keeps forming new leaves and is at 3 like many of the other KBG plots. No seeds actually came up in this plot initially so one of the extra's from Plot 2 was moved, this may have been the cause for the stunted growth but it seems to have taken.


Plot 2 is doing reasonably well and is at about 3 inches, none of the tall Mazama plots have reached 4" yet for their initial trim.


Plot 3 has been cut 2 times this week to keep it at around 1". The fertilizer at this point doesnt seem to have done much, the short cut one(plot3) is growing way faster than the baseline plot 1, but plots 2 and 4 are about the same height and uncut.


Plot 4 basically the same as plot 2 at this point.


Plot 5 same as plot 3 at this point as they have both had fertilizer, i will be waiting until the first signs of tillering before i begin applying PGR to differentiate this from plot 3.


Plot 6 again same as plot 4, growing well and about 3" tall. No PGR applied yet


Plot 7 again continues to grow well, and has probably been cut 2-3 times this week to keep it around 1". Its on its 4th leaf at this point. PRG doing what PRG does and growing/thickening quickly.


Plot 8, what can i say except this is why poa Triv is a giant pain in the *** and i wanted to see how fast it grew. While i think i've only cut it once, i believe its on its 8 or 9th leaf at this point and way ahead of any other plant in terms of plant mass. At the end of this experiment i may use this pot to try some of the Tenacity cocktails that have been posted here and see if it dies.


See you all next weekend.


----------



## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Great thread


----------



## cfinden (Aug 7, 2018)

That Poa Triv looks great, I'm still considering seeding an improved version in my front yard.


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Also whatever is crawling around in Plot 3 is creeping me the F out.


 :lol: I was so distracted by that, I didn't watch the baby grass grow.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

cfinden said:


> That Poa Triv looks great, I'm still considering seeding an improved version in my front yard.


Yes this variety is Sabre 4 which is a new(er) improved variety by DLF.
http://techsheets.simplot.com/Partners/Sabre_4.pdf

I'm really curious to see for myself how dark it gets compared to dark Mazama and a "medium green" Banfield Rye.


----------



## cfinden (Aug 7, 2018)

@FuzzeWuzze Ya I'm curious to see what they mean by "Dark green color" when they're describing Poa T haha. Plot 3 is terrifying.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Week 4 Update

Things are looking good, a bit late with the update as we were out of town all weekend. Thankfully with a bit of water all the plants seem to have had no issues surviving 4ish days without water. As ill discuss below i believe we have the first rhizome plants popping out on two of the plots already, only 4 weeks in which is quite impressive i believe. Some plants got a bit longer than i'd prefer while away, but thats life and they have been chopped back down to their testing heights.






Plot 1 - Seems to be doing well and coming to life a bit more after being transplanted from another pot on week 2. Not much to say its at 5ish leaves, and somehow there are just now sprouts popping out of this plot. So let that be yet another example that you just need to wait, here we are nearly 28 days in fairly ideal conditions and some seeds are just now popping out.


Plot 2 - These tall ones are looking good as well, but cant say they look any better or worse than the short cut ones at this point. Also about 5 leaves, they are definitely floppy at this height though i have to hold them up to measure and cut. Mowing this high with KBG may not be very realistic? Maybe it works better in a real lawn with other plants to support eachother? Input would be appreciated on that.


Plot 3 - Not going to lie its a pretty pitiful looking plant for being 4 weeks old, but that just seems to be the game, much like people every plant even from the same seed is unique in how it grows. This plot has even been receiving fertilizer and does not seem to be doing much better than unfertilized at this point.


Plot 4 - Looking good and healthy, nice leaf size and keeps growing, plus i believe it is one of two plots that has its first baby rhizome popping off, which you can see the two leaves coming out sideways near its base. If you watch the video you can see it start to appear around the 25-30s mark and slowly grow.


Plot 5 - The best of the performers in the low cut KBG category so far, it also has what i believe would classify as a rhizome coming oft the base of it, and it started much earlier than plot 4 in this regard you can already see in the image a pretty substantial leaf hooking off the base. I believe this classifies as a rhizome growth? Also have a few other straggler seeds popping up in this plot as well that will get pulled. 


Plot 6 - As with the other in plot 5, this is probably the healthiest KBG long plot, its got lots of leaves, but it is quite leggy compared to plot 4. They are only a few inches away so i dont think its lighting differences but who knows


Plot 7 - PRG coming in strong as well, continues to grow and is forming lots of new leaves that are growing outward and not even trying to grow up, i think this will get bushy quite fast at this rate. The training of the plant at this HOC is quite evident.


Plot 8 - The king by far is sadly the Poa Triv. This monster will likely need to be repotted this next weekend. There are too many leaves to count at this point and compared to the other plants its night and day in growth and overall mass. Obviously this is the issue everyone has with Triv. Thus far i havent seen it really spread any but its very dense.


See you all again next week!


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Got busy last weekend and couldnt do a normal update, so heres the update for week 5 and 6.

Again i recommend full screen to see the full story.

Week 5 Video 





Week 6 Video





Plot 1 - This is still by far the most pitiful plant, for 7 weeks honestly its failing pretty hard. I barely have to cut it, its not spreading, its leaves are weak looking. Overall score for what i'd expect for a KBG plant 7 weeks in: 3.


Plot 2 - Looking much better than its other unfertilized partner in Plot 1, its spread its first rhizome which is now taking off, the leaves are as thick as i'd expect and overall pretty healthy. Score: 6.


Plot 3 - Looking much better than plot 1, and i assume its due to the fertilization its getting once a week. Its already quazi spread, or at least forked very low on the stem and is getting fairly dense. Score: 5.


Plot 4 - Looking great honestly, its already thickening up quite a lot. As you can tell its got a lot more leaves than its other partner short cut version in plot 3. I can only assume all the extra leaf mass is letting it get more energy. Score: 8.


Plot 5 - Looks basically identical to plot 3 at this point, i'd expect more for how far it is. I will begin spraying PGR on plots 5 and 6 starting this week 7 as i believe they are established enough. Score: 5.


Plot 6 - Looks as good as plot 4 as expected, both are identical at this point getting fertilizer and cut high, this will get PGR starting this week 7. Score 8. I have to cut this and plot 4 nearly every other day now they are taking off.


Plot 7 - Banfield PRG, still doing its thing, much like before it is definiately doing well a t being trained to a low HOC, much more so than plots 1,3, and 5 which are all KBG. But its also a much more mature plant. But its cool to see it growing so flat. I can see a lot of these planted next to eachother looking great. Sissy grass score: 8. 


Plot 8 - The infamous Sabre 4 Poa Triv. Its crazy and scary to think that this behemoth has spawned from one SINGLE poa triv seed in 7 weeks. This is why you get sod quality seed folks. As you can see its quite a few shades lighter than the others, and very leggy but a massive leaf mass. Itr's not spreading like the other plants are from what i can tell, its just getting wider at the base. Unsure if this is just it being limited to the pot size its in. I need to get new pots to replant some of these bigger plants now. Watch how fast this thing grows in the video compared to the rest. I have to cut off an inch of new growth every 2 days. If someone figured out how to make a dwarf/compact poa triv with like a 7+ NTEP color score i'd plant the shit out of it in my yard. Score: 10.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think you should rotate the pot locations. The back ones (closer to the white reflective wall) look taller than the front ones. Maybe the pots get better light or warmer temps in the back.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

g-man said:


> I think you should rotate the pot locations. The back ones (closer to the white reflective wall) look taller than the front ones. Maybe the pots get better light or warmer temps in the back.


I'm a bit confused, thats on purpose? :lol: All the back plots are 2, 4, and 6 are identical to plots 1,3, and 5 except they are being cut at 4" and the ones in front at 1" to test spreading and general growth when cut high vs low. People always say cutting KBG low causes it to spread quicker, so i wanted to test that.

Also just to keep the theme i kept the PRG short and let the triv go wild to 4", if the tall plants in the front it will block the shorter one in the back from the camera.


----------



## cfinden (Aug 7, 2018)

@FuzzeWuzze The Sabre 4 Poa Triv is marketed as a golf greens grass right? I'd love to see it cut low. It spreads via stolons right?

I also can't really tell the difference in color, but it's probably different in real life.


----------



## cfinden (Aug 7, 2018)

@FuzzeWuzze How's your experiment going?


----------

