# Creeping Bentgrass Overseed Project



## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

Front yard Project Timeline. In case anyone else has ever wondered about trying Bentgrass. The seed I used is Piranha Creeping Bentgrass from Mountain View Seed. I had to reseed a few times to fill in spots.

The seeds are TINY. About 6 million per pound so it's easy to miss spots. The initial seeding was at 1 lb/1000sqft. You would probably end up about 1.5lbs/1000sqft after reseeding. My base turf is common Bermudagrass. I am maintaining the yard currently at .5" mowing 2x per week. So far I am pleased with the results. Summer is where the real test will happen since I live in SC which is zone 8a, but this variety was bred to withstand high temperatures so we'll see.


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## zackroof (Oct 27, 2019)

Wow. All I did was spend 90% of my fall spraying and raking and raking and raking to get that crap out. And here you are putting it in! Looks nice, but man.


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

zackroof said:


> Wow. All I did was spend 90% of my fall spraying and raking and raking and raking to get that crap out. And here you are putting it in! Looks nice, but man.


 One man's grass is another man's weed I suppose.  I wanted to try something different and I am quite fond of low cut grass.


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## elgrow (Mar 30, 2020)

Can you take a close up of the grass? I am curious to see how it compares to what I was killing in my yard and when its actually cut at a low HOC.

Looks great btw!


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)




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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

I've spent a decent amount of tenacity to get rid of multiple patches if bentgrass but mine doesn't look like that for some reason, maybe the age? My lawn probably had these patches for years.


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

uts said:


> I've spent a decent amount of tenacity to get rid of multiple patches if bentgrass but mine doesn't look like that for some reason, maybe the age? My lawn probably had these patches for years.


 I am assuming your bentgrass was a wild variety. The bentgrass I chose got high ratings in NTEP trials for golf course Tees/Greens/Fairways. I would imagine they would look a little different. The varieties look different from each other. You can see them side by side here: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/test-bentgrass-2020-alessandro-ilprato?trk=read_related_article-card_title


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

jda989 said:


> uts said:
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> > I've spent a decent amount of tenacity to get rid of multiple patches if bentgrass but mine doesn't look like that for some reason, maybe the age? My lawn probably had these patches for years.
> ...


Looks most like barracuda though I realize low cut turf looks very different than 3" cut


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

Btw It stripes pretty decent too. I used a soft bristle push broom to do the stripes.


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

Just scarified this area yesterday and planning to mow today.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

This just may be the first documented Bentuda grass lawn project on this site!


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## sheepfescue (Jul 29, 2019)

Looks nice...

Re: the discussion of invasive bentgrass... I had been under the impression that bentgrass got into residential lawns from the following (meaning it is not "wild," whatever that is):

1. Bird droppings when they eat it at golf course maintenance sheds and fly to your lawn.

2. Lawnmowing companies cutting bentgrass lawns (such as found--possibly--on the lawns of the $5 million/year folks houses)

3. People mowing their lawn in their golf shoes (which might contain seed and otherwise germinatable material of creeping grasses).

But there's bentgrass, and there's bentgrass... some golf courses have a kind with a lot of leaves at 90 degrees (why its called "bentgrass" I suppose!?), which make for very fast and smooth greens (and make for very unpleasant fairways, in my humble opinion).... but then there is "bentgrass" (as they claim) that has no leaves on each blade, which--at that point--must be not too different from other grasses.

I also do not understand upscale country clubs--purportedly--mixing "bentgrass" and "poa annua" for their greens and fairways. Bluegrass and bentgrass certainly don't mix in a home lawn at rough-length, so I don't understand how/why they mix at fairway and green heights (unless the point is for Poa Annua to be the principal grass with the bentgrass working to fill in divots, etc?).

I also suspect that some of the "bentgrass" that people on this site (including me!) have been trying to get rid of is actually not bentgrass and/or is some mutant strain/unidentified species, or maybe isn't even the same plant, or something.

I have contradicted myself (coffee hasn't kicked in yet!) because I guess my point is that the stuff that is weeds on lawns like mine is not anything like bentgrass on golf courses; what it is like--however--is genuine bermuda rough such as at Florida golf courses.

I had bentgrass that was very very blue.... it was truly blue bentgrass. I also had deep, lush, emerald green bentgrass. The two things were so different that they could not have been the same plant.


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

I had to read this twice to follow, but what I think your saying is. There's high quality Bentgrass grown on purpose from seed and then there's random bentgrass-like or wild bentgrass that gets labeled as the former. And thanks 



sheepfescue said:


> Looks nice...
> 
> Re: the discussion of invasive bentgrass... I had been under the impression that bentgrass got into residential lawns from the following (meaning it is not "wild," whatever that is):
> 
> ...


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

Learned something about XGRN. Putting it down at 2X the bag rate is a bad idea for at least Bentgrass. The Biochar in the fertilizer when put down too thick so far appears to be sufficating the grass blades that got too coated. I'm extremely unhappy that I did that now. The main reason I did it was to get down .63 LBs of nitrogen per 1k sqft, but didn't consider what that meant for the other ingredients in the bag. One mistake I won't make again.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think your math is incorrect. I've done 9lb/ksqft of XGRN (8-1-8) without a problem. That's 0.72lb of N/ksqft.


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

g-man said:


> I think your math is incorrect. I've done 9lb/ksqft of XGRN (8-1-8) without a problem. That's 0.72lb of N/ksqft.


Sorry .64 is what I meant. I did double the recommended. .32*2 = .64 lbs N per 1k sqft 
Which is 8lbs of product per 1k Sqft


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think you have another problem than fertilizer in your bentgrass. Was the grass wet/moist when you apply the XGRN? To me, It looks black from iron.


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

It was damp from morning dew. I tried to water it in and brush it off with little improvement.



g-man said:


> I think you have another problem than fertilizer in your bentgrass. Was the grass wet/moist when you apply the XGRN? To me, It looks black from iron.


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## DbShep (Aug 10, 2020)

Why not use Urea in liquid form if your main goal was to apply just nitrogen? This year I grew a bent grass golf green in my yard and in speaking with the superintendent at my club, he told me that he only applies granular fertilizer in the spring and the rest of the year tank sprays urea at 0.25lb/1000 sq ft.


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

I may give that a try going forward.



DbShep said:


> Why not use Urea in liquid form if your main goal was to apply just nitrogen? This year I grew a bent grass golf green in my yard and in speaking with the superintendent at my club, he told me that he only applies granular fertilizer in the spring and the rest of the year tank sprays urea at 0.25lb/1000 sq ft.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

jda989 said:


> I may give that a try going forward.
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If you need K, Simple Lawn Solutions has 15-0-15. I bought a gallon this year and liked it. It has some Humic/Fulvic acid, Kelp and fish emulsion. I just got an e-mail with 20% off Black Friday code "BF20".
https://simplelawnsolutions.com/products/superior-nitrogen-potash-15-0-15-1-gallon


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

Learned something, avoid walking on frozen grass. I went for a walk on my backyard lawn yesterday and noticed my footprints never went away even post thawing. At first I thought the grass was just laying over cause the darker appearance, but I tried standing up the blades with my hand that darker color did not go away. I read that walking on frozen grass can cause the blades to break. Not sure if that's why those prints are staying dark, but going to just stay off the grass when frozen this winter. 😊 PS: the small dark spot at the bottom right is a dog footprint. Can't really keep them off, but least they have small feet.


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## DbShep (Aug 10, 2020)

jda989 said:


> Learned something, avoid walking on frozen grass. I went for a walk on my backyard lawn yesterday and noticed my footprints never went away even post thawing. At first I thought the grass was just laying over cause the darker appearance, but I tried standing up the blades with my hand that darker color did not go away. I read that walking on frozen grass can cause the blades to break. Not sure if that's why those prints are staying dark, but going to just stay off the grass when frozen this winter. 😊 PS: the small dark spot at the bottom right is a dog footprint. Can't really keep them off, but least they have small feet.


"No golfing until the frost is off of the greens......"


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## cleohioturf (Jul 20, 2020)

frost burn is real on bent grass. You likely might notice dead spots later if it was heavily damaged.


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

Impressive how this grass can freeze and thaw almost daily and not look phased at all.


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

Applied some 18-0-1 Green punch and Headway Fungiced a couple weeks ago and used the scarifier yesterday. I'm dying for it to warm up to apply some Trimec Bentgrass formula for the weeds.


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## jnarlock_19 (Feb 17, 2021)

I am looking at using bent grass in a small area in front of my house. Wanting to start with seed, is there any suggestions on superior, or really desirable bent grass seed options.

I am in Grand Rapids, MI, roughly 350sqft of project, and will be adding a nice two deep sand layer. Any suggestions of seed varietal?

Unsure of what everyone has in the attached posts/pictures. Thanks!


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

jnarlock_19 said:


> I am looking at using bent grass in a small area in front of my house. Wanting to start with seed, is there any suggestions on superior, or really desirable bent grass seed options.
> 
> I am in Grand Rapids, MI, roughly 350sqft of project, and will be adding a nice two deep sand layer. Any suggestions of seed varietal?
> 
> Unsure of what everyone has in the attached posts/pictures. Thanks!


My front yard is primarily Piranha Creeping Bentgrass from Mountain View Seed. My backyard is a combination of Crystal Blue Links (CBL), L-93XD and T-1. The CBL seems to have more of blueish green color which I'm assuming is why they named it that lol. CBL is best for shade, Piranha is best for heat tolerance and partial shade and L-93XD is supposed to be best for disease tolerance which it got some dollar spot just like all the other varieties did and I treated it and it went away in about a week. T-1 Didn't really look or grow any differently than the others. Based on the way the varieties turned out in my clay soil I'm most happy with Piranha, but getting some can be pricy and only in 25 lb buckets and I like the look of the CBL. CBL you can get in different sizes pretty easily from Outside Pride https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass-seed/bent-grass-seed/crystal-links.html.


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## jnarlock_19 (Feb 17, 2021)

jda989 said:


> jnarlock_19 said:
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> ...


Thank you a ton. Given I am in mid-state Michigan I do not think the Piranha is necessary. But looking for something more disease and shade tolerant, CBL seems like the target! Not that I have a ton of shade, but enough. I was also looking at the Highland Colonial BG seed, its geared more for home owner lawns. But I just really like the look of bent grass mowed short. Its hard to beat when you are going for that "carpet" look.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

This "Bentuda" lawn is such an amazing concept, and it seems to be working out well and giving you a challenge. I'm really interested to see what happens over the coming months as it warms up.

Do you think both the Bermuda and Bentgrass will stay green in early Summer? I wonder how much of the Bent will make it through the Summer without overseeding. That reminds me, what season/soil temp is recommended for seeding Bent?

Also, I bet some of the people who walk by and know what a warm-season grass looks like, are like, "What the...?! That's real grass...but it's green this time of year..." They probably assume it's Bermuda because it looks like it, but aren't sure how it's green. Golfers probably know better. What grasses do the neighbors in the shot above have?


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## DbShep (Aug 10, 2020)

jnarlock_19 said:


> I am looking at using bent grass in a small area in front of my house. Wanting to start with seed, is there any suggestions on superior, or really desirable bent grass seed options.
> 
> I am in Grand Rapids, MI, roughly 350sqft of project, and will be adding a nice two deep sand layer. Any suggestions of seed varietal?
> 
> Unsure of what everyone has in the attached posts/pictures. Thanks!


I built a golf green in South Western Ontario last year and used Selectus Tournament Bent from Plant Products. It is a mix of 50% MacDonald Bent and 50% Flagstick Bent. The grow in went well and held up well through summer and fall. Currently it is under 12" of snow so I don't yet know how it came through winter. I wanted to use 777 Bent as it had the highest Ntep rating but the supplier I worked with couldn't get any in time for my seeding.

This was Oct 20th after seeding on May 20th.


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## jnarlock_19 (Feb 17, 2021)

DbShep said:


> jnarlock_19 said:
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> > I am looking at using bent grass in a small area in front of my house. Wanting to start with seed, is there any suggestions on superior, or really desirable bent grass seed options.
> ...


How is it looking now, all the snow melted. How did it hold up?


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## DbShep (Aug 10, 2020)

jnarlock_19 said:


> DbShep said:
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I think it did pretty well. It was under 4" of snow from Dec 26th until Mar 11th. There were half a dozen spots of grey snow mold that were quite small and the centers are showing signs of life. There is one spot where I think the dog peed that may need to be reseeded but we will see if it grows in when things wake up. That spot is about 5" in diameter. We haven't had any rain since the snow melted on Mar 11 but there is some in the forecast for the rest of this week and I'm hoping that wakes things up a bit. Since it was dry enough, I did a light sand topdressing and brushed it in and rolled the green today. I also added sand top dressing to the apron out front.


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

I'm loving all the bentgrass!! Nice work @DbShep and @jda989


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## jnarlock_19 (Feb 17, 2021)

DbShep said:


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Looks really god, quick question. How are you stopping the bent grass from invading the apron turf? Or has it not gotten that aggressive yet?


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## DbShep (Aug 10, 2020)

jnarlock_19 said:


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It just hasn't gotten that aggressive yet. I managed to get the first mowing completed last week when the weather warmed up. I also twisted the tines on an old fan rake 90 degrees so I could scratch the surface like a verti-cut in hopes of encouraging some lateral growth in some spots I had damaged by cutworm.


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## hhphoto (Mar 27, 2021)

I just bought a house on 5 acres in Alvin Texas, 30 miles outside of Houston. The land was owned by Alvin CC and I have the 8th green and 9th green on my property. The course closed 3-5 years ago but the land has been mowed. I want to restore the greens and need some advice about what to do with the current grass. Do I kill it, dig it all up and plant from scratch.


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

Depends I suppose on how much money you want to sink into the greens. If it were me I'd treat them for any weeds and then overseed with whichever Bentgrass variaty you prefer then just fertilize regularly and mow often on a greens schedule like the one described in the link. https://www.tee-2-green.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/PureSelect_TechSheet.pdf. If you have a greens mower that will help a lot as well. IMPORTANT: Make sure you get a soil test done to know what the soild needs.


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## DbShep (Aug 10, 2020)

hhphoto said:


> I just bought a house on 5 acres in Alvin Texas, 30 miles outside of Houston. The land was owned by Alvin CC and I have the 8th green and 9th green on my property. The course closed 3-5 years ago but the land has been mowed. I want to restore the greens and need some advice about what to do with the current grass. Do I kill it, dig it all up and plant from scratch.


Wow!! This would be my dream! Okay, so first thing, I think you should do is start a new thread so we can follow this along. Now, I'm not a grass expert by any means apart from being able to share what has worked for me so far and the advice I was given by my local golf Super.
1. Do you have access to water at the green sites?
2. Do you have a reel mower capable of maintaining grass at 0.125" (you'll need at least 11 blades on the reel, (my Jacobsen has 15).
3. What type of grass were these greens originally? Bentgrass is a cool season grass and my gut tells me that it may be difficult to maintain in Texas.

My opinion, and it likely would be the most cost effective option, would be to determine the grass type that the greens were originally, then, use your greens mower to gradually lower the cut height of the existing grass until you arrive at putting height. (Lower the cut height in stages by SLOWLY dropping the height every 1 - 2 week to avoid too much stress, and spoon feed Urea at 0.25/1000 every couple weeks) Topdress with sand and over-seed with the existing grass variety while the grass fills back in. It will take some patience and likely multiple courses of top dressing to return the surface to level and possibly a few rounds of over-seeding, but I don't think there would be any reason to re-invent the wheel here.


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## jnarlock_19 (Feb 17, 2021)

It cannot warm up fast enough here in MI. I think it will be fun to work some bent grass into the yard. No one around here has it anymore, and I think it would be a fun statement piece based on what I have seen from y'all.

Please keep sending pictures from all your lawns as they green and thicken up


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## DbShep (Aug 10, 2020)

jnarlock_19 said:


> It cannot warm up fast enough here in MI. I think it will be fun to work some bent grass into the yard. No one around here has it anymore, and I think it would be a fun statement piece based on what I have seen from y'all.
> 
> Please keep sending pictures from all your lawns as they green and thicken up


What height are you going to cut it at? It looks pretty ugly if it's long.


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## jnarlock_19 (Feb 17, 2021)

DbShep said:


> jnarlock_19 said:
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> > It cannot warm up fast enough here in MI. I think it will be fun to work some bent grass into the yard. No one around here has it anymore, and I think it would be a fun statement piece based on what I have seen from y'all.
> ...


I have a 2014 Toro GM 1000 thats sitting at .50 for my PRG/KBG mix. But, I figured I can knock it down .25 for the bent grass once i get it established. I found a nice cultivar that our local country club uses for taller fairways. The greens keeper there said it looks amazing at .25-.50 and stands up really nicely; and he gave me 3 pounds of it for a case of Bell's Oberon lol!


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## DbShep (Aug 10, 2020)

jnarlock_19 said:


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Nice! That's a good deal for the seed, I had to buy a whole 25lb bucket of seed for my green and it cost about $400 CAD, the good news is that I have left overs. Somewhere between 0.25 and 0.5 will look great. The maintenance will increase but it will look pretty cool.

Here is what my golf green looked like cut at 0.35" in August last year, (seeded May 20).


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## jnarlock_19 (Feb 17, 2021)

DbShep said:


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Wow, that looks amazing! .35 I see is the sweet spot. I want it longer than an "official green" so I do not have those massive inputs, but short enough where it still looks carpet like, and thick! So, essentially what you have, lol!


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## DbShep (Aug 10, 2020)

jnarlock_19 said:


> DbShep said:
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I just realized my typo. That picture was at 0.25" and currently I am at 0.156 with a goal of moving to 0.125 once it is greened up and growing well.


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

Lawn update. Took these picture yesterday 4/9. Some of the weeds are still dying from the Trimec Bentgrass Formula I applied a couple weeks ago. Got the Pre-Emergent down and put down about .25 lbs of nitrogen ever couple weeks leading up to summer. Trying to get the grass good and thick to try and withstand the upcoming heat. Then the plan is to apply growth regulator monthly to help prevent heat stress during June-August.


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## DbShep (Aug 10, 2020)

jda989 said:


> Lawn update. Took these picture yesterday 4/9. Some of the weeds are still dying from the Trimec Bentgrass Formula I applied a couple weeks ago. Got the Pre-Emergent down and put down about .25 lbs of nitrogen ever couple weeks leading up to summer. Trying to get the grass good and thick to try and withstand the upcoming heat. Then the plan is to apply growth regulator monthly to help prevent heat stress during June-August.


Looks great!


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## Dlmartin1984 (Jun 7, 2021)

jda989 said:


> Lawn update. Took these picture yesterday 4/9. Some of the weeds are still dying from the Trimec Bentgrass Formula I applied a couple weeks ago. Got the Pre-Emergent down and put down about .25 lbs of nitrogen ever couple weeks leading up to summer. Trying to get the grass good and thick to try and withstand the upcoming heat. Then the plan is to apply growth regulator monthly to help prevent heat stress during June-August.


How has this held up through the summer?


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## jda989 (Aug 14, 2020)

Dlmartin1984 said:


> jda989 said:
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> > Lawn update. Took these picture yesterday 4/9. Some of the weeds are still dying from the Trimec Bentgrass Formula I applied a couple weeks ago. Got the Pre-Emergent down and put down about .25 lbs of nitrogen ever couple weeks leading up to summer. Trying to get the grass good and thick to try and withstand the upcoming heat. Then the plan is to apply growth regulator monthly to help prevent heat stress during June-August.
> ...


It was more or less a failure. Looking into replacing with Zoysia.


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