# Goose Grass!!!!



## ajmikola (Feb 18, 2017)

I know the subject has come up before, however, I recently renovated my backyard due to drainage that I added. It would seem the sod I bought came stocked with GOOSE GRASS. At first there were no weeds, but now the goose grass has come up faster than I can even imagine. Celcius isn't cutting it (which is sad). It is taking over and getting out of control. I don't know what to do and its driving me crazy. My research has essentially turned up nothing but revolver or some other crazy high priced combinations. How can there not be a simple herbicide for this?

I've read dismiss works but it doesn't even label goosegrass as a susceptible weed.

Ugh..... :evil:


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

Pulling it is your best bet honestly. Revolver alone will work, but you need at least 2 apps. Revolver amd dismiss is supposed to be a tactical nuke for goose.

Caveat: we are starting to find round-up resistant goosegrass in Asia (i know, not the usa, but it's out there). This is why I will generally pull it.


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## ajmikola (Feb 18, 2017)

500$ for revolver and dismiss. Unfortunately, that is not an option.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Hand brush with glyphosate and hope it isn't resistant.

Or try simazine and tenacity, which will also make the grass look damaged


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

ajmikola said:


> 500$ for revolver and dismiss. Unfortunately, that is not an option.


Understandably so. Fortunately, it pulls pretty easy and will look great after 20 minutes of work.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Can you get MSMA in Florida? Alot of southern states still allow it to be purchased and shipped?
I have had success with quicksilver alone. It took out my goosegrass quickly with a spot spray. Its supper concentrated and needs to be used with a 1cc syringe and it will make your bermuda mad if you over apply.
I think max rate per application is 4 drops or 4ml per 1000square feet for Maximum application. I believe I did literally 3 drops in a gallon of water. Dont even rinse out syringe in the water your gonna use. I have a picture somewhere in my renovation thread i will see if i can find it.
I believe speedzone will also take it out if my memory is correct


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Arsenic in Florida groundwater is the exact reason why MSMA got restricted. Pull it out, kill it with whatever you need to use to kill it. But that area will need preemergent applied or the seeds will keep on making new Goosegrass.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

See if you have one of these tools at your local Home Depot. Mine is called the Weed Hound, and it makes picking the plants out of the ground super easy. Just put it over the center of the plant, step on the foothold driving it into the ground, turn the handle 180° and pop it out of the ground. It'll get every bit of the plant!

Weed Zinger


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## ajmikola (Feb 18, 2017)

So i went to lowes and got a weed puller. I must have pulled 200 goose grass plants.

Now 2 questions:
1. I recently put down prodiamine in this area at the recommended rate. I have significantly distrured the ground. Do i need to reapply?
2. Should i just mow this stuff up with my rotary? I'm nervous it will send seed everywhere.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

When did you last apply Prodiamine and what was the rate used? Suggested program involves 2 applications of Prodiamine as a split application at 1 lb of the 65 WG per acre.


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## ajmikola (Feb 18, 2017)

0.4oz/1k last week


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

One more application 30 days from the last one.


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

ajmikola said:


> So i went to lowes and got a weed puller. I must have pulled 200 goose grass plants.
> 
> Now 2 questions:
> 1. I recently put down prodiamine in this area at the recommended rate. I have significantly distrured the ground. Do i need to reapply?
> 2. Should i just mow this stuff up with my rotary? I'm nervous it will send seed everywhere.


This is awesome! I'd pick them up instead of mowing them all. Have a blower that you could use to blow them into one pile? Ronstar has, hands down, been the best pre-em for goose that I've used.


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## ajmikola (Feb 18, 2017)

The amount of goose grass that came up and the speed at which it came up was insane. I didnt want to spray prem on it earlier because i thought it would have done damage. 
Barricade has a good profile against goose correct?


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

ajmikola said:


> The amount of goose grass that came up and the speed at which it came up was insane. I didnt want to spray prem on it earlier because i thought it would have done damage.
> Barricade has a good profile against goose correct?


In my experience, Barricade is trash - for goose. Upgraded to Ronstar 5-6 years ago and my goose has been almost nonexistent.


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## ajmikola (Feb 18, 2017)

The first i'm hearing about it &#128546;


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)




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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

I finally gave in and hit mine with Glyphosate today while spit spraying. I'm hoping it's not resistant, and I'll follow up with a pre-em (hopefully) after it's demise. Goose grass I have learned is a hell of a weed.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

So everyone seems to hate GG (with reason obviously) but don't hear much about barnyard grass. Seems like there are options to kill GG (as long as it isn't resistant) but not much to kill barnyard effectively?

Also, why is there such a discrepancy in the price of Ronstar? 
https://www.domyown.com/oxadiazon-sc-herbicide-p-3933.html - Generic $3.64/1sqft of treated area
https://www.domyown.com/ronstar-50-wsp-p-17335.html - Name brand is $2.84/1sqft of treated area

Usually, stuff out of patent doesn't cost all that much. The ronstar WSP name brand is almost 1$ per 1ksqft cheaper for whatever reason. Is it something to do with being a WSP? I figure you could treat with it the same as any WSP just break the packet apart?

Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, I believe Greendoc had a few words of special precautions when having to apply Ronstar? Maybe something about how it works its best to distribute through a spreader or something instead of spraying?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I cannot explain the price discrepancy between the SC and the WSP formulation. However, once that SC formula has had its bottle opened, it does not keep. I prefer the WSP formula and the packet is figured to treat 5-10,000 sq ft each. Not hard for me.

If the sprayed Ronstar is applied through low drift equipment, it is a relatively safe application. @Tellycoleman told me about how Ronstar G formed a dust outside of his house and got sucked into the air pump for his aquarium, and killed some fish.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@Greendoc Ah, well that's good to know that there isn't anything special with the WSP vs the SC.


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## ajmikola (Feb 18, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


>


Man this chart is gold! I've been looking for something like this, where did you get it?


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

kur1j said:


> So everyone seems to hate GG (with reason obviously) but don't hear much about barnyard grass. Seems like there are options to kill GG (as long as it isn't resistant) but not much to kill barnyard effectively?
> 
> Also, why is there such a discrepancy in the price of Ronstar?
> https://www.domyown.com/oxadiazon-sc-herbicide-p-3933.html - Generic $3.64/1sqft of treated area
> ...


You run into that from time-to-time - name brands being cheaper than the generic stuff. All of our Ronstar is spread, we spray nothing. We only spray our pre-em during our last app of the year, where we switch to specticle.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

http://media.clemson.edu/public/turfgrass/2017%20Pest%20Management/2017%20Pest%20Control%20Recommendations.pdf


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## ajmikola (Feb 18, 2017)

Great article, i guess Clemson can produce something better than their football team. &#128556;........roll tide.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

ajmikola said:


> Great article, i guess Clemson can produce something better than their football team. 😬........roll tide.


Ha. In that case...I hear multiple apps of Specticle Total works great as a pre emergent. Go Vols and Go (Clemson) Tigers.


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## ajmikola (Feb 18, 2017)

&#128514;


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## ajmikola (Feb 18, 2017)

@Movingshrub , in all seriousness, the ronstar label says not to use in turfgrass or residential properties, whats up with that?
Also specticle has an excellent goosegrass profile so that would be a good option right?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> ajmikola said:
> 
> 
> > Great article, i guess Clemson can produce something better than their football team. 😬........roll tide.
> ...


 :twisted:


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

ajmikola said:


> @Movingshrub , in all seriousness, the ronstar label says not to use in turfgrass or residential properties, whats up with that?
> Also specticle has an excellent goosegrass profile so that would be a good option right?


Ronstar is a suspect carcinogen. It is also an eye and skin irritant. EPA does not want Ronstar applied where barefoot infants may contact treated surfaces.

Specticle is an excellent option for Goosegrass control. It can also be rather hard on treated turf. I have used it, but mostly as a fall/winter preemergent on turf going dormant. I rather use the split application of Prodiamine during the growing season.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Just to be clear, there are two different specticle products. The regular one is a pre-em, specticle total is total negation control/ scorched earth. I was "suggesting" the second one in jest.

I think greendoc hit the nail on the head. I heard the same thing from other applicators. With that being said, it's supposedly really good at goosegrass control. Your other options are prodiamine, dithiopyr, or specticle (regular version).


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

I have been following the thread and had planned to spray my Goosegrass. However, I decided to pull it by hand this afternoon. Needless to say, I advise pulling it up as soon as you see it. Otherwise, prepare for a good hand workout depending on the amount of weeds. The roots of those mature plant are going to pull up a lot of dirt when you do it. The smaller plants were a lot easier to pull up.

Of course, the wife sold my weed puller similar to @ajmikola's in a garage sale. She told me that I didn't need it. :evil:


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

:lol: Football rivalry. I have Glyphosate resistant Goose here. The golf guys tell me about spot spraying with Finale + Ronstar or Diquat + Fusilade + Ronstar. RoundUp alone might set back the clump and trigger the seeds the main plant dropped to germinate.

Specticle Total is not that bad. RoundUp365 on the other hand. :wacko:


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

I had insane amounts of goosegrass last year.

Used dismiss and sprayed it heavy. Dismiss nuked it pretty well. It'll keep popping up even if you've pulled.

I used ronstar g for my preM and I haven't seen a single blade of goosegrass this yr. Not a single plant yet. Impressed.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> I cannot explain the price discrepancy between the SC and the WSP formulation. However, once that SC formula has had its bottle opened, it does not keep. I prefer the WSP formula and the packet is figured to treat 5-10,000 sq ft each. Not hard for me.
> 
> If the sprayed Ronstar is applied through low drift equipment, it is a relatively safe application. @Tellycoleman told me about how Ronstar G formed a dust outside of his house and got sucked into the air pump for his aquarium, and killed some fish.


If you have a fish tank of fish of any type or toddler children don't use Ron star.


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## ajmikola (Feb 18, 2017)

I find it hard to believe that we can put a man on the moon but we can't find a simple herbicide for goose grass


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

ajmikola said:


> I find it hard to believe that we can put a man on the moon but we can't find a simple herbicide for goose grass


It's not on the same scope - in terms of the project. I understand what you're saying, but in order to get it to get EPA approval, any new product would have to undergo extensive trials involving people, turf, and aquatic life (also need to study how it behaves in soil)...and given that it's resistant to round-up, we need to find a new science to attack it with - while keeping it a selective herbicide (possibly the toughest task). I still have good success with revolver (2x apps), and I have friends who use dismiss + revolver for total control - for the golf guys, however, it's about controlling it on greens that get mowed @ .100" or lower. Products like dismiss would torch a putting surface, as would quality pre-em (ie: Ronstar).


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## ajmikola (Feb 18, 2017)

viva_oldtrafford said:


> ajmikola said:
> 
> 
> > I find it hard to believe that we can put a man on the moon but we can't find a simple herbicide for goose grass
> ...


I have kids and a dog so ronstar is out, i guess i need to research a better pre-em.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

ajmikola said:


> viva_oldtrafford said:
> 
> 
> > ajmikola said:
> ...


I have kids and a dog too, but with any chemical application, be it fertilizer, pesticide or herbicide, I let common sense prevail. Keep them inside until the product is watered in, or is dry on the leaf surface. You could always spray before it gets dark, then have it irrigated overnight, and have nothing to worry about in the AM. There's always a precaution for a REI on most products, but these are industrial applications, and if you wanted to go with a less expensive option, there is a granular form.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Yeah but when greater then 3 parts per million is toxic to fish. ( very little amount) And applying granular Ron star with a spreader particulated or produced enouph Dust to kill my fish that were *inside* my house in 5 min. I would use a lot of common sense before I use it around a 3 year old. It really reacts with water so what does it do when you spread it out with a spreader and inhale it into your nice wet lungs. Not to mention the liver of a 3 year old who has to remove those toxins. 
I'm not a tin foil hat kinda guy or a PPD nazi but. My child has to live with her liver for another 80-90 years.


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## jonthepain (May 5, 2018)

My best friend died 2 yrs ago while waiting for a liver. I'd say your caution is well founded.


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## erad213 (May 11, 2018)

I applied the Glyphosate via small paint brush to the tips of the goose grass on Sunday... its turning nice and brown. im excited. Question, Can I mow it down or do I need to leave it on the leaves and let it die before cutting that section of grass?


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## Alan (Apr 23, 2017)

How about gasoline in a turkey baster or a syringe(no needle) drop or squirt right at the heart of it(white intersection part)?


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

So, I was texting @thegrassfactor and @BenC to see if I could get an id on a weed that was absolutely massive that was growing on my discard pile. Matt said it was Goose Grass, and I said "No way, I'm used to picking those up off the ground. I've been battling it for a year." He sent me a picture from a survey site and I confirmed it was what I was looking at.

Here's what I'm used to picking out of the ground.



Here's the monster on the discard pile, with a 20 oz Gatorade bottle for reference. Time to burn the pile, and have it carted off somewhere other than my back yard!


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@Colonel K0rn burn down the house, salt everything, time to move.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

:lol:


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## thegrassfactor (Apr 12, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> @Colonel K0rn burn down the house, salt everything, time to move.


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Kill it with fire 😂😂😂😂😂


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

@Movingshrub @Greendoc @thegrassfactor

I have decided to call it "El Gigante Terrible(teh-ree-bleh)"


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Here's one I am saying regularly "Scheisskraut" Yesterday, I had to bug out to check on one of my accounts. Teaching green at one of the golf courses. 25% Goosegrass(Scheiesskraut), 10% Smutgras, and the rest is supposed to be Seashore Paspalum. It got Tenacity+ Sencor 14 days ago. Pylex + Sencor was today's application.


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## jonthepain (May 5, 2018)

lol my wife is German, i better not say that around her
I switched from tenacity to pylex a few years ago. Lost an account because of how long it took tenacity to show effectiveness.
New client, didn't know me well and i failed to manage expectations appropriately
Probably would have been a problem client anyway


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Any client that holds grass, weeds, and you to an exact schedule is a PITA. Unless they can put their money where there mouth is for a strip and re sod of an area they are dissatisfied with, I do not want to hear any whining. I did not create the problem, the people they hired previously certainly were not taking measures to address the problem. So the most I can do is address the problem within their budget. A weed control and fertilization program takes time to work. I make that clear. The people I work for normally understand that because their lawns were treated to string trimmers, out of adjustment mowers, and no fertilizer on an exact "schedule". I hate that word. "Schedule" means you have total control over nature. I am first to admit that I do not have that control. If i did, I would be in another business. A "schedule" is also worthless if the wrong things are done, bad equipment is used, or steps omitted.


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## BenC (Mar 27, 2018)

Colonel K0rn said:


> So, I was texting @thegrassfactor and @BenC to see if I could get an id on a weed that was absolutely massive that was growing on my discard pile. Matt said it was Goose Grass, and I said "No way, I'm used to picking those up off the ground. I've been battling it for a year." He sent me a picture from a survey site and I confirmed it was what I was looking at.
> 
> Here's what I'm used to picking out of the ground.
> 
> ...


Ha, sorry I missed that colonel. Goose grass everywhere this year, it all got big right before August. Before that it was nasty old spider wort. Great weather for weeds this year. Aphids have had a very recent flare up on ornamentals this week, with limited aphid fungus around, right now would be a timely pyrethrin day spray for around the house


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## Bermuda_Newbie (Jun 15, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> Any client that holds grass, weeds, and you to an exact schedule is a PITA. Unless they can put their money where there mouth is for a strip and re sod of an area they are dissatisfied with, I do not want to hear any whining. I did not create the problem, the people they hired previously certainly were not taking measures to address the problem. So the most I can do is address the problem within their budget. A weed control and fertilization program takes time to work. I make that clear. The people I work for normally understand that because their lawns were treated to string trimmers, out of adjustment mowers, and no fertilizer on an exact "schedule". I hate that word. "Schedule" means you have total control over nature. I am first to admit that I do not have that control. If i did, I would be in another business. A "schedule" is also worthless if the wrong things are done, bad equipment is used, or steps omitted.


Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with string trimmers? Is there something I should be aware of?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

String trimmers do not cut cleanly. They are also not very controllable at low heights of cut. Any reel cut lawn I have seen that is mowed low is bald on the edges. It is hard to keep a string trimmer out of the dirt when the trim height is 3/8" or lower.


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## Bermuda_Newbie (Jun 15, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> String trimmers do not cut cleanly. They are also not very controllable at low heights of cut. Any reel cut lawn I have seen that is mowed low is bald on the edges. It is hard to keep a string trimmer out of the dirt when the trim height is 3/8" or lower.


Would you recommend a landscape blade or an actual edger?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I use both. Landscape blade for the horizontal trim. Edger for next to hardscapes.


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## ajmikola (Feb 18, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> I use both. Landscape blade for the horizontal trim. Edger for next to hardscapes.


@Greendoc I am assuming you work on a golf course? Curious what your background is as you provide some killer information.

I laid down prodiamine on the sod I put down (pretty well established), goosegrass is popping back up, I guess meaning the goose grass i have is prodiamine resistant? I am starting to lose sleep over this goose grass BS. It just keeps coming up no matter what I do. Not only that, but if its resistant, my barricade is crap. :? :x Any suggestions?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Do not work on a golf course. I simply deal with reel cut lawns on a commercial basis. It is a thing in Hawaii. I just took the effort to take it to the next level. I do have some schooling. Horticulture. But instead of learning how to grow vegetables organically, I focused on turf and ornamental management.

One application of Prodiamine is not enough. What I do is apply the split application program consisting of 2 1 lb per acre of the Barricade WDG 30 days apart. It is on the label. If goosegrass is an issue, I suggest incorporating either Freehand G or Specticle into your Pre rotation.


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## ajmikola (Feb 18, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> Do not work on a golf course. I simply deal with reel cut lawns on a commercial basis. It is a thing in Hawaii. I just took the effort to take it to the next level. I do have some schooling. Horticulture. But instead of learning how to grow vegetables organically, I focused on turf and ornamental management.
> 
> One application of Prodiamine is not enough. What I do is apply the split application program consisting of 2 1 lb per acre of the Barricade WDG 30 days apart. It is on the label. If goosegrass is an issue, I suggest incorporating either Freehand G or Specticle into your Pre rotation.


Yeah, I've been looking into mixing a different pre-em into the barricade, will look into those. Thank you sir.


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## ajmikola (Feb 18, 2017)

@Greendoc

Have you heard of or had any luck with this stuff? It was fairly inexpensive and something i can mix with my barricade for better coverage.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Surflan has the same MOA as Prodiamine. Main difference is how deep into the soil it goes. It goes deep. Deeper a pre goes, the more damage done to the turf roots. The two application program of Prodiamine is the least damaging.


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## BenC (Mar 27, 2018)

TulsaFan said:


> Of course, the wife sold my weed puller similar to @ajmikola's in a garage sale. She told me that I didn't need it. :evil:


Haha- my wife and her best bud once sold the ladder rack right of my truck for $50 just sweeten the deal on a tv at a garage sale. Mine just goes into crazy mode at garage sales.


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## Stro3579 (Jun 30, 2017)

viva_oldtrafford said:


> Pulling it is your best bet honestly. Revolver alone will work, but you need at least 2 apps. Revolver amd dismiss is supposed to be a tactical nuke for goose.
> 
> Caveat: we are starting to find round-up resistant goosegrass in Asia (i know, not the usa, but it's out there). This is why I will generally pull it.


What about msma?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Stro3579 said:


> viva_oldtrafford said:
> 
> 
> > Pulling it is your best bet honestly. Revolver alone will work, but you need at least 2 apps. Revolver amd dismiss is supposed to be a tactical nuke for goose.
> ...


What about fusilade/fluazifop?


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