# rob13psu's Lawn Journal



## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Good evening all! I'm new to the forum and wanted to say thanks for letting me part of this great community!

I moved into my first home about 2 years ago, and I've been trying to figure out what to do with the front lawn. I live just outside of Buffalo, NY, so we get the usual cold winters and mild, to warm summers with a little fall and spring in between.

Currently the yard is, well, a mess. I've spent the last 2 years getting rid of all sorts of weeds, including a ton of Creeping Charlie.

Here's the yard coming out of winter this past May.





I did not over seed the previous fall, but I did apply some Milorganite at bag rate in November. Looked pretty good. I did not put down a pre-emergent or any weed control (Wife gave birth to our second child, so had zero time  ), so you can guess how it looks now.













I've got a bunch of creeping bentgrass near the driveway, and about every type of cool season grass you can think of. My soil is definitely in need of help (tons of rocks!).

I guess my question here is, where should I begin? Should I tackle the bentgrass issue first? I do have Tenacity here. I would love to have a majority KBG lawn, but is that possible with all of the fescue that's mixed in?

Thanks in advance!


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## chrisben (Sep 11, 2017)

Wow, there's a lot of us here from Buffalo now, welcome!

Be carefull, with the heat we're having, it's not really ideal herbicide time, (and you want to be careful about using herbicides too close to your seed-down time, I'm guessing you'll want to overseed this fall.)

I'd try this
- take a soil test, Aggro-one has a partnership with the Cornell Extension prices seem pretty resonable to me. You need to send the soil in in one of their sample boxes, which take a little bit of time to get, I'm local, albeit south of you, in West Seneca, and I've got extras, so if you find yourself out this way, I could share... shoot me a PM if interested
- apply some surfactant to help the water penetrate deeper into our lovely clay soil. (generic baby shampoo works okay for this)
- Get an idea of what seed you're going to plant this fall, the traditional wisdom is that *** is a very tough species to over-seed into competing grass types because of the long germination times, and it's tendancy for sprout and pout. Get your seed ordered so that you have what you want on hand, and aren't waiting for delivery, Seeding is weather sensitive, so when you get a good window around, or just before the labor day timeframe, you'll want to take it. PRG has a pretty high winter kill rate, so I'd think you're easiest path is probably overseeding with more a nice TTTF. Being in Buffalo, we have lots of Preferred Seed retailers around, give them a call, and they will tell you about places closer to you.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

As an observation and to try to help you out for whatever you decide to do, from the pictures it looks like you are cutting way too short, not applying frequent enough fert, not enough water. You had a nice stand there in May that declined but likely isn't dead.

Tall fescue likes to be cut tall. In the heat, 4" is a minimum and letting it grow to 6" is even better.

Cut short in the hot / dry it has thinned, gone partially dormant and allowed weeds to start growing. Stop cutting and start watering.

Assuming you plan to overseed in the Fall, get aggressive with weed control now. Whatever existing grass you kill because it's too hot will be replaced by the overseed. If a few tough weeds still remain at the time of overseed, zap them with gly right up to the day before the overseed.

Get a soil test to a lab and follow the recomendations.

I 100% agree with @chrisben - TTTF or a TTTF / KBG blend will be easier to establish without a complete reno. If you really want a 100% KBG lawn, plan on a complete reno - kill all the existing and start over.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

This lawn looks to be in drought stress. It needs more water.

I would not reno this lawn. Water and feed it and it will grow. Next year in spring use a crabgrass preventer product to avoid a lot of the summer weeds.


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## mikelask24 (May 23, 2018)

Howdy neighbor! 
First off, I think you have a No Mix lawn more than a tttf. Cutting height looks to be okay for your lawn type IMHO. With the weather patterns we are having this summer (very hot and dry with sporadic rainfall) you will need to irrigate to stay green. Because of the humidity, if you irrigate, you will most likely have to have some sort of disease control in place.

I renovated (first time) this May with pretty good results so far with a TTTF / KBG blend 96%/4% from hogans. I contacted a dozen suppliers including Preferred Seed and Hogans price and quality beat them all, even after shipping. BTW Preferred Seed will not deal with anyone local who is not a distributor. I had gotten quotes well over $220/50lb. from Hectors and Russels. Just make sure to ask for Steven from Hogans. Shipping is around $30 bucks to us from Tennessee.

For me it came down to this: I wanted new cultivars and I couldn't stand the rye grass and pockets of creeping bentgrass I had. Its easier and more financially feasible to smoke the old and start fresh. My soil was on target though.

My vote: Get a soil test. Work on getting your values and soil in shape till August. Smoke it and seed with what you want to have. I would only do front or back lawn in a season due to the size. (its a lot of work and time) You must have a way to water everything. Tenacity at seed down is a must (i learned the hard way)
Glad to see other local members on this wonderful forum. Also feels good to know I'm not the only crazy one in the neighborhood. :mrgreen:


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Thanks for the responses! So one problem I'm having is the side yard that looks really scalped is being scalped by my neighbor. I was cutting around 3" and he comes around and cuts that area around 2". I hate confrontation, but I'm going to have to have a talk with him about doing that.

I do plan to overseed this fall. I will start to irrigate regularly this week in the mornings.

I actually did get a soil test this past spring before I first fertilized.



I threw down some starter fert in May and Milo at bag rate. I'll continue to work on the soil/irrigation/weeds this summer.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

chrisben said:


> Wow, there's a lot of us here from Buffalo now, welcome!
> 
> Be carefull, with the heat we're having, it's not really ideal herbicide time, (and you want to be careful about using herbicides too close to your seed-down time, I'm guessing you'll want to overseed this fall.)
> 
> ...


Awesome info! I will definitely check out Preferred Seed.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

In between bottles and chasing the toddler, I've been back in the lawn. Haven't received much rain, but I've been regularly irrigating (twice a week for the past month. 1" per week). Grass has slowly recovered. There are some areas of fine fescue that have not recovered, but I'm not too worried. I have my supplies ready for the end of August to aerate and overseed with a TTTF blend from Hogan's. They're awesome to work with. My goal is to hone my skills and fine tune my spraying/irrigation/seeding and fertilizing practices.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Just wanted to give an update for anyone who is interested. First of all, thank you to everyone who chimed in and helped guide me through my decision. I ended up having an electrical service line replaced which tore up part of the yard. I took that as an opportunity to bring in some top soil and do some leveling. This turned out to be a much larger project than I anticipated! 6 yards of topsoil later we finished filling in low spots.

August 11 with my dad's help







August 12

After leveling/top dressing I put down some starter fert (10-18-10) at 3lbs/K rate and milorganite at bag rate. I also had a custom mix from SSS of 20% Grand Slam PRG/20% Blue Note KBG/60% TTTF (Equal parts 4th Millineum/Regenerate/Traverse 2SRP) at 5lbs/K as recommended by Drew. I promise, I did a lot of the work! Temps that week were in the upper 80s with some periods of heavy rainfall, so I put down m-binder by spreader/hand. This section of the lawn is 2,700 sq ft and the side is 1,000 sq ft, so I used about 5 lbs. We also went through 10 cubes of peat moss when we thought 4 would suffice. :shock:

All finished, now the waiting begins.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Hopefully you are not still waiting since 12 August, right?


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Ha! No my six month old decided to wake up while I was posting.

August 16



August 18





August 25




August 27 First Mow. 3" HOC



August 30


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Man that's a really nice recovery. Looks great. Now that you have a solid base to start with you can hone your pre-em, watering, post-em, soil conditioning skills and be teaching others by next fall. Great job.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

TN Hawkeye said:


> Man that's a really nice recovery. Looks great. Now that you have a solid base to start with you can hone your pre-em, watering, post-em, soil conditioning skills and be teaching others by next fall. Great job.


Thanks @TN Hawkeye ! That's exactly my plan for next year. I plan to get a soil test done in the spring through Cornell coop and taking it from there. Just did my first feeding this past weekend (Milorganite) and plan for one more in mid-October before calling it a growing season and waiting for the lake-effect snow machine to turn on, although not as bad up here north of the city.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Also wanted to give my Dad his due. Here's his fescue lawn in Williamsburg, VA.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

@g-man would it be possible to move this thread into a lawn journal?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@rob13psu sure. You can edit your first post to change the title.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

@g-man thank you!


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

I think the overseed project went well. Switched my blades out and dropped the HOC to 2.75". Day 46 view from the street.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Today was the first of two final N applications (AS) for the yard. Put down 0.4/M over the 4,000 sq ft in the front. It is looking pretty decent. I'm definitely happy with how the front is looking.





Mother nature has taken care of the watering, with up to another inch or so of rain possible this weekend. Temperatures in the upper 50s today, but back in the 70s next week.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Day 58 since overseeding/dethatch/aeration and feeling proud. Since the first application of AS (0.4lbs/M), and third monthly N application the lawn has responded well. The fescue has really started to tiller and thicken along with the PRG. The KBG is in there, albeit not as much as the TTTF. Was feeling down on myself and the lawn in August, but I am really happy with how it's looking. There are spots of bentgrass near the driveway still, but I will take care of that in the spring. Even my wife compliments the lawn, which is everything to me!


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

Nice work! It looks great! You're lucky you've got a big helper to rake up those leaves, too.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

samjonester said:


> Nice work! It looks great! You're lucky you've got a big helper to rake up those leaves, too.


She is the best. Saw me raking and grabbed the other rake off of the ground to help. We won't talk about how she then pushed them all underneath my car :lol:


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Gave the yard a mow and put down the final nitrogen application to the lawn yesterday with my new Scott's wizz (thanks @g-man for the recommendation). 0.4lbs/M of AS. Been mowing at 2.75" and will drop it to 2.5" for the remainder of the fall. The fine fescue blend is currently cut at that height.

Front Yard










Heavily Shaded Back





Temperatures have been in the upper 40s to low 50s for highs, yet we have not yet had a frost. The micro-climate close to Lake Erie is nice and mild compared to just a few miles inland.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Nice stripes.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> Nice stripes.


Thanks @g-man!

Got a mow in late Friday since I knew the weekend would be a washout. Still mowing at 2.75" in the front and 2.5" in the back. Temps have been in the upper 40s all week.








Back yard. There was nothing but lawn exposed yesterday.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Well, winter is here. All of the leaves on the maples in the back have blown off, so I'll have only stuff that blows in the contend with. Winterized the string trimmer and brought in all of the furniture off of the deck. Lawn is ready for her winter slumber. Looking forward to next season.


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## TrialAndError (Oct 7, 2017)

How's it looking coming out of dormancy?


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

TrialAndError said:


> How's it looking coming out of dormancy?


Overall not too bad. First mow was yesterday.

March 17







Yesterday


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## TrialAndError (Oct 7, 2017)

Lookin' Good!


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

TrialAndError said:


> Lookin' Good!


Thanks!


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Just received my soil test results from Cornell for the front and back lawns. Cores were taken from 0"-4" depth.

pH: 
Front: 7.65
Back: 7.66

Modified Morgan Results: (Front)
Ca: 7262 ppm
Al: 4.4 ppm
Fe: 0.7 ppm
Mg: 415 ppm
Mn: 17.3 ppm
K: 107 ppm
P: 12.9 ppm
Zn: 1.5 ppm

(Back)
Ca: 7149 ppm
Al: 4.8 ppm
Fe: 0.8 ppm
Mg: 474 ppm
Mn: 20.1 ppm
K: 137 ppm
P: 15.4 ppm
Zn: 1.4 ppm

Cornell Reccommendations:
(Back)



(Front)



Compared to my SS results from last year: (Front Lawn)



I did not have the knowledge of how to properly take a soil sample last year, so most of the cores I took represented the 3"-5" range only. I also used starter fert last year, which may be contributing to the high P and K values.

I plan on using elemental S at just below the suggest rate (4lb/K) to get to 8lb/K for the season. No Milo for me! I used AS for the fall nitrogen blitz and I'll continue to use it as my N source.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

2nd cut of the season. HOC 2".


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Put down elemental S at 3lbs/M. New Lesco spreader's maiden voyage. Works great! Next up will be pre emergent (Dimension) tomorrow or Wednesday, weather pending.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Mowed today. TTTF is still greening up. Didn't lose much PRG over the winter which is great. Liking the 2" HOC.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Upgraded my backpack sprayer wand with a @dfw_pilot wand. Feels great. Plan on calibrating this weekend and then my first FAS treatment of the year.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Did some bed edging, then enjoyed the lawn with my two girls. My oldest refers to the lawn simply as "Dada's grass."


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Today I applied Ammonium Sulfate at 0.25 lb/K and dropped some moss killer in the back. Really going to work on getting the back yard set for a fall overseed this year.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Mowed. Staying at 2" HOC.







Extended the side beds by two feet or so. Removed the brick edging and added a trenched edge.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Rob, that 2in hoc is looking great.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> Rob, that 2in hoc is looking great.


Thanks @g-man!


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Dropped AS on Wednesday. 0.5lbs/K. Got an inch and a half of rain Thursday night. Mowed today and finished the side bed. Noticed some yellowing of the fescue on the side yard. Planning on spraying FAS tomorrow.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Today I sprayed the side yard with FAS. I swear it already looks greener. Mowed the front and side at 2". Still looking good.


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## mowww (Jan 16, 2018)

Looking sharp!


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

@mowww Thanks! Definitely a big difference from last year to this, thanks to TLF. I'm trying to get on your level.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Got to mow after some heavy morning rain. Mother Nature continues to irrigate for me.


Applied FAS is to this side last week. Yellowing has disappeared.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Lots of rain this week. Finally was able to mow the front Thursday and the back today. Raised the HOC just a bit to 2.25". Sprayed weed-b-gon for a few broadleaf weeds.









Went to site one and picked up some urea. Got the look of concern from the sales guy until I told him I only apply .25lbs of N/K. He must have been thinking "What is this moron doing with all of this fertilizer?" :shock:

Next bio-stim package arrived.



I have yet to apply any nitrogen to the back. Will hopefully be able to spoon feed some N this weekend.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Weather is still cool and rainy. Have had some red thread pop up in the front in one spot. Keeping an eye on it. Spread 4 yards of mulch in the beds two weekends ago. Things look ready for summer FINALLY.



The pots are some samples/leftover TTTF seed that my daughter and I planted to grow something. Interestingly enough, it was also a good example of how slow KBG grows compared to to Fescue.

We planted the TTTF mix (4th Millennium, Traverse 2 and Regenerate) on 6/1. The other three on 6/4. There's a shady mix sample from SSS, an Amity TTTF/Mazama KBG mix and straight Mazama. Cool to see.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Sprayed some fungicide to combat red thread. We are finally getting a break from the rain. Mowed at 2.25" before vacation.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

I blame TLF


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Uh-oh! Congrats on the new mower!


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

rob13psu said:


> I blame TLF


 :nod:


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

@rob13psu Nice. Prepare to enjoy mowing even more now.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

@Pete1313 @pennstater2005 @SNOWBOB11 thanks! I am super excited to use it. It felt like Christmas when we picked it up yesterday.


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## NoslracNevok (Jun 12, 2018)

Coming along great! I love the idea of potted sample grass. Congrats on the 1000! One of these days I'll upgrade. 

How's things looking now we are in Aug?


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

@NoslracNevok It's looking meh, but starting to recover. I'll snap some photos this evening. We went from a rainy spring to a "hot" (by Western NY standards) and dry July. The TTTF held up well but a lot of the rye is fried. We've also had utility work on my street so it's been a mess. I also have A LOT of bentgrass that needs to be dealt with.

I did manage to take the GM1000 on a maiden voyage on the small strip on the side and it didn't look too bad! Kept it just a hair above 1" HOC and it didn't scalp too much.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Here's a pic from the first cut with the GM1000


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Finally got to mow. Weather is looking good going forward so just about ready to drop some N. Have only applied .75 lbs/K this year.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

I've been continuing to use the GM1000 on the small side yard. Initially it looked bad but has continued to improve. I really need to work on irrigating during the summer in the future. The lawn really struggled as a result of neglect.

August 2nd after mowing



Sprayed .1 lbs N/K of urea along with humic 12, rgs and air8. Received just over .3" of rain and the lawn recovered a bit.

Today


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Still tinkering with the GM1000 on the side yard. It's looked a little better with every cut.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Have a test pot of Mazama KBG to test its shade tolerance, and the results have been impressive. I put the pot in a spot that gets about 3 hours of full sun in July and is now getting about 2 1/2 due to the decrease in sun angle. Grass seems to be doing just fine.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

So it has been a roller coaster of a month here. Found out my wife was pregnant with our third! I have two girls so my mind automatically started thinking son. Was already playing catch with him in my mind for a few weeks. So excited! Then at the first appointment we find out it was a blighted ovum. I am so blessed to have two beautiful girls after thinking we might not be able to have kids, so I was able to let go and let God.

That being said, the lawn suffered while we dealt with all of this. I decided to take out any leftover frustrations out on the bentgrass that invaded the lawn. Hit it with Tenacity at 5oz/Acre rate and watched it slowly turn white



So satisfying.

Took apart the carburetor on the GM1000 and gave it a good cleaning. Mowed the front at 1" HOC. You can see all of the bentgrass that's dying painful death. 


The bare spot is from me raking some of the bentgrass to see how big of a bare spot I can expect.

Also working out an irrigation plan for next year. I really want a KBG lawn, but I am not ready for a renovation. My plan going forward is to overseed any bare spots from the dead bentgrass with Amity TTTF I have on hand, and do the fall N blitz and continue to get accustomed to the GM1000. Next year I want improve my summer watering, and stay on top of disease before it starts to do too much damage.


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## OnTheOxbow (Jan 27, 2019)

@rob13psu I'm sorry to hear the sad news, that's something I wish nobody ever had to go through. I completely understand you unleashing some frustration on that bent grass. I'm following along on your Amity overseed. According to the stat sheet, Amity TTTF can be cut pretty low. Seeing as you have a reel mower now, i'm curious at what height you plan to maintain it? It's crazy to think a tall fescue can thrive sub 1 inch.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

OnTheOxbow said:


> @rob13psu I'm sorry to hear the sad news, that's something I wish nobody ever had to go through. I completely understand you unleashing some frustration on that bent grass. I'm following along on your Amity overseed. According to the stat sheet, Amity TTTF can be cut pretty low. Seeing as you have a reel mower now, i'm curious at what height you plan to maintain it? It's crazy to think a tall fescue can thrive sub 1 inch.


Thank you! Really appreciate the kind words. I am currently cutting with the reel at 1" and will probably stay there through the end of the season. I agree with you about the TTTF. I always thought I could never cut it below at 3" HOC. The three cultivars I overseeded with last year are handling it just fine. It's just hard to see the yard look so bad. The PRG didn't do well at all this summer. Got nailed with red thread and leaf spot. Now it's got the clorox look from the tenacity app. Hopefully I can get rid of the bent and start improving the texture of the lawn this fall.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

2nd Tenacity application on the bentgrass. It's hurtin'. Work trip to Charlotte this week. We'll see how it's looking when I return.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Back from my trip and started raking up some of the bentgrass. Still trying to secure a power rake to get the dead stuff up.





Less bent on this side



After raking


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Fall has arrived. First frost expected tonight. I overseeded three weeks ago with Amity TTTF and things are looking better. Two tenacity applications put a hurtin' on the bentgrass and the new grass/old grass is filling in.

September 8th



Tonight


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

That is some good recovery! :thumbsup:


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Thanks @Pete1313 !


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Don't look into the light! Make sure you do a follow up app of Tenacity. Bentgrass can come back with a vengeance. I did only one late app last fall and am still regretting it! I sprayed three weeks ago tomorrow, and am due for another one. I can see color coming back into the bentgrass leaves, so I hopefully can put the last nail in the coffin. :twisted:


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Chris LI said:


> Don't look into the light! Make sure you do a follow up app of Tenacity. Bentgrass can come back with a vengeance. I did only one late app last fall and am still regretting it! I sprayed three weeks ago tomorrow, and am due for another one. I can see color coming back into the bentgrass leaves, so I hopefully can put the last nail in the coffin. :twisted:


Ugh! So I hit it with two applications, one in August and then again the first week of September. Honestly I waited too late to get seed down, but you know how life can get in the way. My plan going forward is to watch for it next spring and if it does come back I'll try again with a tenacity/AS/Triclopyr cocktail. I held back on the triclopyr this year because of the 40 day wait period before seeding. Besides, if it does come back that would a great excuse to renovate...muahahaha :twisted: :twisted:


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Mowed. Then dropped urea .25 lbs N/K. Watered in a called it a day. 1" HOC.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Mowed today. Plan on dropping .25N/K of AS this evening. FAS spray planned for tomorrow. Still thin in spots but looking better. Dropped the mower to 9/10" HOC.







And I really love my wife. Gift from her.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Mowed. Planning on another N application today. Applied humic12 and microgrene on Monday.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

The Amity TTTF/Mazama KBG overseed is looking good. The blue grass has really started to fill in the voids left by the bentgrass. Couldn't wait to get home and sneak in a mow. Kept the bench HOC at 9/10".



Mazama plant


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Got some leaf mulching done. Front yard has bounced back nicely from the late summer tenacity apps.

September 8



October 4



October 26



Still have some thin areas close to the house.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Time for the other reel.


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