# Glyphosate question



## Copat (Mar 20, 2021)

I need to kill off some remaining common Bermuda in my lawn. I'd like to dont a round of glyphosate tomorrow and hopefully aerate, top dress and seed Sunday. Any issue here or things to consider? Thanks in advance.


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

One round of glyphosate almost certainly won't kill the Bermuda completely. If it's just a touch of it, no big deal. Ornamec can get it in the late spring.


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## Copat (Mar 20, 2021)

Lawn Noob said:


> One round of glyphosate almost certainly won't kill the Bermuda completely. If it's just a touch of it, no big deal. Ornamec can get it in the late spring.


It's mainly some spots here and there but there are a couple decent size sections. My plan was to treat any remaining after this fall seeding with ornamec or fulisade II in the spring as described. Is it a waste doing the glyphosate or should I just hit it? I probably don't need to overseed this weekend as I live near Virginia Beach and the temp is still low to mid 80s (I think we have 3 days this week right at 90 degrees as well). Thanks for the help!


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## TStees (Aug 14, 2021)

Not sure if you're worried about seeding interval after glypho or whether or not you'll be successful at the kill. Either way.

https://turf.purdue.edu/renovating-turf-how-long-should-i-wait-to-seed-after-a-glyphosate-roundup-application/

I've seen countless times throughout this forum and YouTube that it's safe to glypho up and to the day of seeding. Even accounts that you're safe to spray after seeding and before germination (1-2 days)

Fwiw, I just did a final gly app the morning of seeding without worry.

With that- surely you CAN spray. Considering it's Bermuda though and you haven't yet hit it with glypho, it may just stunt it for a bit and aid your seeding some.

Factor in the time crunch and your intent to seed, you'll want to aid the uptake of the gly. You can do this by adding ammonium sulfate to your mix. I've been successful (not against Bermuda as it's all cool season here) with 2.5oz dissolved per gallon/1ksqft and adding a NIS.

Ideally, to get a sure kill, you want to spray when the turf is actively growing and give yourself plenty of time to make repeat applications for anything you missed and anything that doesn't take to the glypho. Lower solutions of glypho in that respect would aid in rhizome/stolon uptake and make for a more complete kill.

Keep in mind you're unlikely to see much of a dent after your spray for upwards of a week or two.

If you're weather permits, I'd shoot for a few rounds of glypho (2 weeks apart) prior to seeding.

You could also consider mixing multiple modes of action to off the Bermuda, but I'm touching on something I'm not comfortable or very familiar with. I'm sure someone could chime in with their experience here.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13115
*A quick search revealed this about killing common Bermuda, that'd be a good place to start. I'm sure there are others.


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## NELawn (May 7, 2019)

Ill 2nd everything thats been already said.

I have done a few renos where I did two rounds of glyphosate a couple of weeks before seeing, then one last glyphosate app the day before just incase. All the renos came out great.

Glyphosate works on growing plants, it has no pre-m properties. thats the reason why if you had dormant triv in your lawn when you sprayed it in the summer, the triv will come back in the spring, because the triv wasn't taking in the glyphosate when you sprayed it.


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## Copat (Mar 20, 2021)

TStees said:


> Not sure if you're worried about seeding interval after glypho or whether or not you'll be successful at the kill. Either way.
> 
> https://turf.purdue.edu/renovating-turf-how-long-should-i-wait-to-seed-after-a-glyphosate-roundup-application/
> 
> ...


Thank you! I guess my main concern is I didn't want it to effect the new seeding. I've read it a few times as you stated that it's essentially safe to see the same day (label is 1-3 days I believe) but I always prefer to here peoples first hand experience so to here this was a big help.

Am I safe to spray the glyphosate today and then mow/scalp the yard 1-2 days after? I've see some say wait a week etc. if I had it over with I would have started a first round a week or two ago but hindsight is20/20 I guess. Still learning.

I will be laying Lebanon turf starter fert with meso as well at time of seeding - will this cause any issues? I know glyphosate doesn't sink into the soil but just want to be sure.


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## TStees (Aug 14, 2021)

You shouldn't have any trouble with the seeding after glypho- unless the Bermuda comes back and crowds out your seedlings.

As far as the Bermuda, without repeat applications or more targeted treatments you're unlikely to gain total control of it.

In regard to scalping, I'm not certain a couple days would give your glypho application ample time to translocate through the plant. It's unfortunate you were unable to get an earlier start.

Given the circumstances and your seeding time, you could give the glypho+ams+nis combo a go today/tomorrow. Scalp as late as possible before another application Thursday/Friday. Then follow up with a second application Friday/Saturday before seeding. I'd err in favor of Thursday scalp and Friday application. Though this is likely to toast the plant rather than give it the slow but sure burn down.

As for your initial plan to aerate and your current timeline, you may want to forego that unless it's absolutely necessary. You want all the time you can in order for the glyphosate to penetrate the plant. Aeration will separate the plant and stop the ability for that to take place… then, not right away, but surely someday- that lingering Bermuda will be back.

Your starter fertilizer w/meso should be a non-issue in regard to seeding. Unless your seeding fine fescue, in which case, hopefully, the label has some guidance as meso can interfere with its establishment (rate dependent- presumably) It may also aid in denting the Bermuda some. However, I'm unsure as to the effectiveness in regard to granular/foliar applications of meso against Bermuda.

Going forward, after your applications, you're likely to see some of the Bermuda bounce back. At which point you'd need to take a more aggressive approach to control it.

A bit of searching turned this up.
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21427

Another option to consider would be delaying your seed down date in order to more effectively burn down the Bermuda…

According to your avg soil temps/first frost dates this could be an option for you but I'll let you be the judge of that.

All that to say, it's your lawn, your cards- play them as you will. It is after all only grass (and likely some political capital with the significant other)

Out of curiosity and potentially significant relevance what do you intend to seed? Are you doing the entirety of your 25k? Or only the areas with Bermuda?

Also, it's worth mentioning that I'm still very much learning myself and my advice should be taken more of as an opinion+research>fact+experience. I've done a fair bit of consuming the available material within this forum and other places and try to potentiate as best as I can but there's an undoubtable likelihood I've missed a thing or two.


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## Copat (Mar 20, 2021)

TStees said:


> You shouldn't have any trouble with the seeding after glypho- unless the Bermuda comes back and crowds out your seedlings.
> 
> As far as the Bermuda, without repeat applications or more targeted treatments you're unlikely to gain total control of it.
> 
> ...


Wow - can't say thank you enough for all of the help and detailed info! I'm still learning as well and just hoping to put my best foot forward this year.

I plan to overseed with lesco all pro transition blend of TTTF. My house is newly built (last fall) and by the time it was finished it was too late to really plant any see aside from the contractor mix my builder did. I have over 2 acres of land but my main focus is this 25k sqft area. I would say there's about a 4-5k area worth of the common Bermuda that has crept in with small other smaller spots here and then. Like you stated - I plan to treat with ornamec in the spring and hopefully that knocks it down etc! But I would like to get rid of as much of it now as possible. Have you used ornamec at all? If so - how was your experience?

As for the seeding date - there's no significance other than I would like to get some seed down so in case I get some wash out etc in a couple weeks I'm good to spot seed those areas. Our current average soil temp is around 78-80 degrees. Anticipated first frost is November 21st - but I would rather error on the side of caution!


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## TStees (Aug 14, 2021)

Yeeesh! 2 acres. Good call on chunking it out. I do see now that your rainy season begins a bit earlier and heavier than this side of the continent. We're typically dumped on from November - March.

I'm with you on putting my best foot forward- of course within given constraints (as there's always something). We do what we can. It's ever important to manage expectations.

If I were in your shoes- considering the washout concerns etc. getting started, regardless of any shortcomings with the plan would be a good call. There's likely to be something that comes up and takes you away from the project or impedes it and it's often better to play it safe than sorry.

Truth is- there's always going to be something to work on in your turf. If you can make a sizable impact against the remaining Bermuda now and retreat it after winter- you're a step ahead of the curve.

Plus on the upside you'll have 20ksqft of freshly seeded turf to enjoy even in the case that things don't turn out as you hoped with this 20%

I've not treated with ornamec myself. For tackling the remnants in the future I'd defer to the guidance suggested in the post I linked in my previous reply. Or perhaps someone may chime in with their experience in this thread.

Another note, if you're concerned about washout (dependent on how heavy/condensed your downpours are) you could consider using a tackifier while seeding. It would at the very least provide a bit of insurance after all you'll have invested.

Would love to see the progress as you move through the process. Congrats on finishing up the home build btw! Now you get to play in the dirt! &#128516;


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## Copat (Mar 20, 2021)

TStees said:


> Yeeesh! 2 acres. Good call on chunking it out. I do see now that your rainy season begins a bit earlier and heavier than this side of the continent. We're typically dumped on from November - March.
> 
> I'm with you on putting my best foot forward- of course within given constraints (as there's always something). We do what we can. It's ever important to manage expectations.
> 
> ...


I'll definitely keep you updated with the progress! I applied a round of glyphosate on Monday and will do another app today. I also trenched a water line from the back side of my shop to my house so I can water the lawn with my well haha next year I will run my irrigation off of it. I unfortunately didn't have the time this fall to do so.


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## gt4877c (Sep 15, 2021)

I'm in the exact same boat here. Live in Va Beach, and have large patches of bermuda grass I'm trying to get rid of before overseeding. I'm trying to figure out what's the latest I can overseed to get the bermuda under control. Thinking of waiting until 22 Sept to put down seed. I'm new to taking care of a lawn (lived in apartments all my life overseas) so any advice on timing an overseed while dealing with bermuda would be very helpful.


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## Copat (Mar 20, 2021)

gt4877c said:


> I'm in the exact same boat here. Live in Va Beach, and have large patches of bermuda grass I'm trying to get rid of before overseeding. I'm trying to figure out what's the latest I can overseed to get the bermuda under control. Thinking of waiting until 22 Sept to put down seed. I'm new to taking care of a lawn (lived in apartments all my life overseas) so any advice on timing an overseed while dealing with bermuda would be very helpful.


Ground/soil temp around 70 degrees is prime for seeding and at least 45 days before the estimated first frost date - from my understanding. As you know the last couple of days has been 90ish outside.

As @TStees has been helping me to come up with an attack plan - I may push my seeding back to mid next week or next weekend. My initial plan was this coming weekend, however I'm leaning toward the latter as stated above. I would like to get a couple more rounds of glyphosate down and then scalp. I should have started the burn down a little sooner but it took me a few weeks to commit to it.

After I scalp the lawn, my plan is to aerate (maybe), top dress and then seed. Then moving into the spring I will hit any existing Bermuda with either ornamec or fulisade. I hate this stuff - so I'm trying to keep it under control and hopefully eventually eradicate and/or suppress it as best I can so that the TTTF can flourish.


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## gt4877c (Sep 15, 2021)

Thanks! Will prob start seeding on the 22nd. I too got a late start this year. But hopefully weather will work in our favor.

When I went out to look at my bottle, I saw I didn't put Glyphosate down. I have spectracide that has different chemicals. The bottle says I can seed in a week, so I think I'll just do the spectracide once today, and then put seed down next week. My plan is to put down GreenePop, tttf seed, peatmoss and tenacity.

https://yardmastery.com/products/16-21-2-greenepop-1-gallon-1

Diquat Dibromide......................... 0.12%
Fluazifop-p-butyl.......................... 0.06%
Dicamba, dimethylamine salt....... 0.04%
Other Ingredients ....................... 99.78%


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## TStees (Aug 14, 2021)

I stumbled upon another lengthy thread related to offing Bermuda. I've not had a moment to read through it, but there appear to be several different strategies for addressing it and some personal recounts from other members.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3735

On another note, you mentioned applying glypho just a couple of days after your previous application. Though doing so may make the plant seem "dead." Ultimately, you're potentially wasting an application and only getting a surface burn.

The thinking behind making multiple applications is to give the glypho time to penetrate through the plants' root systems. Heavier applications tend to burn instead of facilitating that slower but truer kill by getting deeper into the plant. This is also why it's recommended to apply glypho during stages of plant growth as the uptake coincides with nutrient/application uptake and movement.

Repeat glypho applications are recommended to be around 7-14 days. In most cases, you won't see any real discoloring or signs of death until nearly a week from making the application. However, that doesn't mean it's not doing anything. In your case, depending on your rates, that may have been accelerated but potentially only on the plant matter above the soil. On the other hand- considering how hardy of a plant Bermuda is, your back-to-back applications were effectively close enough to be regarded as a single hot app and could provide a net benefit to their intent.

Where you stand now, I'd consider only making one additional glypho application just before seed down. Given that your first application was Monday and your second Wednesday... Sunday/Monday should have given those applications ample time to move deeper into the plant and begin showing signs of die-off.

At which point, you could scalp the visible dead/dying material and expose areas where you may have missed, or treatment was ineffective. Directly after that, giving the remaining living plants a light touch of N (0.25/ksqft) followed by irrigation would put them in a more primed position for uptake of a "second" glypho just before seed down. If you even want to bother with the N... Think the Tuesday evening prior or even the day of for your "second" app.

Now keep in mind, before seed down, you'll be at the point of pressing significant die-off and resulting soil exposure- without ample time to fallow- you're likely to have increased weed pressure during seeding. Fortunately, the starter with Meso you have planned will help keep some of that at bay.

As I mentioned before, in your circumstances especially, managing expectations is necessary, and come next spring will likely be required. You'll want to plan for pre-emergent (consider a split app) and Bermuda control. In addition, depending on how well your new seed establishes, you'll want to plan for continued Bermuda control through the summer (which you already are) and potentially an overseed in the fall.

Apologies for the length again, as with with so many variables at play, it isn't easy to consider them all, and I'm trying to help bring light to as much pertinent information as possible.

What application rates did you go with for your glypho apps and how're things looking currently?


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## TStees (Aug 14, 2021)

Copat said:


> I'll definitely keep you updated with the progress! I applied a round of glyphosate on Monday and will do another app today. I also trenched a water line from the back side of my shop to my house so I can water the lawn with my well haha next year I will run my irrigation off of it. I unfortunately didn't have the time this fall to do so.


Good call on the trenching too! That's partially the reasoning behind my current reno as well. Laid some new irrigation line down and relocated several heads in addition to removing a far bit of debris . Managed to find several pavers and a good bit of pea gravel buried under a previously renovated area. That's what I get for having "help."


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## Copat (Mar 20, 2021)

TStees said:


> I stumbled upon another lengthy thread related to offing Bermuda. I've not had a moment to read through it, but there appear to be several different strategies for addressing it and some personal recounts from other members.
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3735
> 
> ...


Thank you again! I guess what meant to say by second app/round was that I only got to do half my targeted area the first day (ran out of sunlight) and had to finish it up on wednsday. I may have a couple spots that I overlapped. I remember reading on here (I'm pretty sure it was here) that multiple apps on top of each other wouldnt speed up the process. I have noticed the spots I sprayed Monday turning yellow tho!

Hopefully the meso will surprise any new weeds that want to arise (fingers crossed!). I have been mixing 6oz of glyphosate per 1 gallon of water to date - which are the label rates. My plan for the spring is def to do a split app of prodiamine.

Still kicking myself for not deciding to do this sooner but oh well. Live and learn!


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## TStees (Aug 14, 2021)

Copat said:


> Thank you again! I guess what meant to say by second app/round was that I only got to do half my targeted area the first day (ran out of sunlight) and had to finish it up on wednsday. I may have a couple spots that I overlapped. I remember reading on here (I'm pretty sure it was here) that multiple apps on top of each other wouldnt speed up the process. I have noticed the spots I sprayed Monday turning yellow tho!
> 
> Hopefully the meso will surprise any new weeds that want to arise (fingers crossed!). I have been mixing 6oz of glyphosate per 1 gallon of water to date - which are the label rates. My plan for the spring is def to do a split app of prodiamine.
> 
> Still kicking myself for not deciding to do this sooner but oh well. Live and learn!


I follow now- that rate oughta do some damage! 👌 I'm right there with you on later than ideal start. I had my wedding on 8/21 this year and wanted the existing stand to look as good as possible for company visiting. I sprayed it all two days after just prior to honeymooning. Didnt get seed down until this last weekend, fortunately it's rye so it oughta take quickly. Ah well. Crossing my fingers and doing everything I can to mitigate failure. Riding that thin line!


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## Copat (Mar 20, 2021)

TStees said:


> Copat said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you again! I guess what meant to say by second app/round was that I only got to do half my targeted area the first day (ran out of sunlight) and had to finish it up on wednsday. I may have a couple spots that I overlapped. I remember reading on here (I'm pretty sure it was here) that multiple apps on top of each other wouldnt speed up the process. I have noticed the spots I sprayed Monday turning yellow tho!
> ...


Congrats on the marriage! It's a great thing. My wife and I got married back in 2016. Goes by fast!

I'm sure all will turn out great! I love the look of PRG, unfortunately it won't grow here (well it will but the heat will kill it right off in late spring/early summer). I contemplated doing a really good blend of TTTF (4th millineum, kindgom, traverse) blend with 10% *** (shamrock). Wasn't sure how the *** would fare here. I'm going to do some more research via NTEP and maybe ill give it a try next year. The TTTF blend I am using this year has kingdom as one of the cultivars in it which is highly rated for color so should blend well.


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## TStees (Aug 14, 2021)

Thank you! So far so good, no doubts with this one, she keeps me in check.

Aye, fortunately over here the weather is moderate year-round. Snows once every few years and it's extremely rare we see anything above 85. Just wet and windy six months out of the year.

Going to see how the Rye blend stands alone and may overseed with KBG in the future. Coming from the existing mixed stand that was here when we bought our home, I'm looking forward to a consistent response from applications/weather going this route. Previously each grass type wanted to do it's own thing which was an eyesore to me. Granted- others didn't seem to notice. &#129315;

The reasoning for the potential KBG plan would be the obvious- the spreading(though I know it's nothing magical). That's the biggest put-off I have going the Rye route. I don't necessarily have an issue overseeding but would prefer things to be mostly in maintenance mode year-round. We have two pups and handfuls of nieces/nephews that love to play in the lawn. Therefore, I'll make it as nice of an environment as can be.

Tttf seems a fine route for your area, though obviously, there's reason to believe Bermuda holds up okay too. KBG may do okay most of the year for you pending you can/want to keep it well irrigated and manage the complications that come with that. However it's going to want check out for much of your summer.

You could always run a test plot and see how things go before you commit to more. I've got a small 265sqft plot on the side of my drive that I'll reno next fall and use that for an experiment prior to doing anything major again to the primary lawn.


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## nameless (Aug 10, 2021)

Tstees, 
Take a look at this.


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## TStees (Aug 14, 2021)

I briefly looked into the spreading and regenerative Rye but ended up going with other cultivars for the time being. I knew getting it ASAP this year was priority due to issues in the supply chain, increased demands and the consequent rising costs. Plus the wedding/family coming and all that prep work made my research window pretty tight.

My thought was if there ever were a need to repair patches that may or may not fix themselves- at the rate that Rye germination takes place it wouldn't take much to scuff up the soil and sprinkle some seed. The one obvious caveat to that would be running into issues with pre-emergent timing.

I'll definitely have to do a bit more reading about these varieties prior to next fall. Is this what you planted in your recent reno? I missed that detail.


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## nameless (Aug 10, 2021)

I added some in to the Pangea after I put down a little too much starter with meso I think and I had a blonde suffering lawn lol
It is in the grass in my RENO pic but maybe I left out a mistake or two in my journey


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## Copat (Mar 20, 2021)

TStees said:


> Thank you! So far so good, no doubts with this one, she keeps me in check.
> 
> Aye, fortunately over here the weather is moderate year-round. Snows once every few years and it's extremely rare we see anything above 85. Just wet and windy six months out of the year.
> 
> ...


First spot I sprayed on Monday. It's starting to brown over. I scalped it a little bit. I'll do the rest Saturday and see if there are any spots I missed spraying then go from there!


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## TStees (Aug 14, 2021)

Nice and crispy! &#128588; BTW, I'm seeing broad germination from my Saturday seeding today. Glyphosate went down as a blanket app the morning of at 7oz/1ksqft.


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## Copat (Mar 20, 2021)

TStees said:


> Nice and crispy! 🙌 BTW, I'm seeing broad germination from my Saturday seeding today. Glyphosate went down as a blanket app the morning of at 7oz/1ksqft.


Ahhh that makes me feel so much better and optimistic! I can't wait till I'm to the point of watching new germination 😂😅


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## TStees (Aug 14, 2021)

nameless said:


> I added some in to the Pangea after I put down a little too much starter with meso I think and I had a blonde suffering lawn lol
> It is in the grass in my RENO pic but maybe I left out a mistake or two in my journey


I follow now- it doesn't look like you missed sharing. I missed reading it. 🤦‍♂️ I may have been a touch distracted by the shiny things.

@Copat, now would be a good time to dig into your extended forecast and pre-weigh your seed.

Also, since you've scalped and will finish today, it's going to be a bit easier to identify issues with you're irrigation coverage as well. If you haven't already, now's your best opportunity to dial that in before getting your seed down.

Do you intend on top dressing with peat or anything similar? I've had good success with peat as it makes monitoring moisture levels easier.

I did catch your thread about having a slit seeder on hand. What's your plan come seeding day? Do you intend to roll after seeding?


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## Copat (Mar 20, 2021)

TStees said:


> nameless said:
> 
> 
> > I added some in to the Pangea after I put down a little too much starter with meso I think and I had a blonde suffering lawn lol
> ...


I'm kinda back and fourth on the slit seeding. I may use it on areas that aren't currently bare soil (I'm still trying to decide as I will basically be top dressing my entire lawn). I will be top dressing with a bio compost/top soil mix. any areas that I don't slit seed I plan to come back with my lawn roller and roll over the seed to get that seed to soil contact!

I normally rent an eco top dresser from my local Horizon distributor but theirs is down and waiting on parts sooooo I have to use a landzie spreader to move spread about 10 yards of top soil haha


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