# Video documenting my lawn looking for suggestions



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

So this was the original video.

https://youtu.be/RzF3aUQlTOk It was back on June 26th. It is documenting my issues and questions.

Today I just did another video with what has changed (not much unfortunately). Still the same perpetual issues. 
https://youtu.be/-NBxhbjUY-g - Part 1 (video cut off bc phone died as it was overheating in sun).
https://youtu.be/SZgAYrYwaYw - Part 2

So i guess the most irritating part of my lawn for me is how inconsistent the entire yard is. While in certain areas it might look like i'm scalping the yard part of it seems to me that 3 feet over it's perfectly green (look at side of house in part 1) and then not 3 feet away I cut it no different and it looks brown and splotchy where half the sprigs or grass is mixed in with green grass. It just seem nothing is consistent. Parts are growing other parts aren't. Do i have too much thatch, not watering enough, not enough fertilizer, not aerated, is there stiff under the ground that's restricting growth. It's just I don't know why everything is so wildly different not 3 feet away from each other. The grass doesnt seem like it's thriving and really growing (see the dead spots, a month later not hardly anything different). Strips of dead/void spots where the sod wasn't put together all the way, still hasn't filled in and it's been installed in november, and has all season to grow. What is going on? I know I'm not doing the fertilization but what else am i missing? Could the trugreen be putting growing restriction chemicals to help me in "not needing to mow as often"? Is that a thing? i'm just throwing darts at this point. I feel like in this month no progress at all has been made really and am looking for anything. Any suggestions?

https://imgur.com/a/PjAj0 Here are my results from my soil test. This was before trugreen did their application of fertilizer. I did another soil sample a week after they did their treatment and am waiting in results to come back to see if i'm still low on anything.

I feel there are so many small issues that I don't know where to start to tackle to get this looking nice, consistent and green turf.

Any suggestions on where to start?


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

Great videos and nice yard - rather flat and not too big to manage or too small that you can't throw the football around. you're at the right place, plenty of Bermuda owners here.

Grass is rather young as a whole, right? I wonder if trugreen was aware of the maturity of the grass ...if they applied a pre-emergent (wouldn't be advisable if grass was sodded this season)? if they did, root development might be retarded and being younger sod, it may be drying out and the grass may need more water than say a more mature lawn.

the bare strip - that was my thought - did they spill some chemicals. I had a contractor clean his paint supplies in my yard and the grass is sill bare there. I may dig it up and replace with fresh soil. Could also have something buried close to the surface there too.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Good suggestions there jayhawk.

I heard a saying a long time ago that still holds true to a lot of problems that I face, and that is, "The hardest part about anything is finding a starting point." The Six Sigma training that I took to get my green belt was working the "5 Why's", and that helps with Root Cause Analysis (pardon the pun). Here's a brief overview of that methodology.

I tend to be pretty analytical when it comes to figuring out problems, and I find that charting helps me come up with solutions, and a plan of action. I'd suggest doing that. Start out listing the issues that you have, and this is just a start: 

Why is the grass thin in this particular area?
What's underneath the "death strip?
Why is the grass green right by the sprinkler, yet 2' away, it's thin and not as green?
What is TruGreen actually applying to my lawn?
How long do my zones have to run in order to deliver at least 1" of water? (Insert tuna can audit post here)
How much sunlight is this portion of the lawn actually getting daily?
What is the condition of the portion of the lawn by the sidewalk, and how does that compare to my lawn?

These are just a few points that I could think of off of the top of my head. Now, if I'd have to speculate regarding the overall condition of the yard is that it's struggling to get rooted. There's no telling how long the sod sat on the pallets before they unrolled it and put it on the ground and then got water on it. Did it dry out? A majority of it is alive, and it's trying to establish roots in your soil. The fact that your soil sample indicates that your phosphorous is low might be a telling sign of where it wouldn't hurt to give it some assistance. I'm willing to bet that TruGreen is NOT applying any P to your yard at all. Find out what they're putting down, and amend your lawn accordingly. With Bermuda, you're not going to hurt it at all by throwing down a 16-16-16, as recommended by Unibest.

That being said, I'd encourage you to reach out to your county extension agent, and get a soil sample done by them, and ask the agent to come by your place and present the same questions to him/her. The nice thing is that the samples are usually $6-$8, and not $25 like Soil Savvy. You'd be amazed with the amount of advice that they'll be able to provide, as well as give you prudent information on how to handle your soil at your residence, and if you're lucky, you'll get a soil scientist like I've got in my county! I hope this gives you a starting point; keep us updated with what you think your course of action should/and is going to be.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

jayhawk said:


> Great videos and nice yard - rather flat and not too big to manage or too small that you can't throw the football around. you're at the right place, plenty of Bermuda owners here.
> 
> Grass is rather young as a whole, right? I wonder if trugreen was aware of the maturity of the grass ...if they applied a pre-emergent (wouldn't be advisable if grass was sodded this season)? if they did, root development might be retarded and being younger sod, it may be drying out and the grass may need more water than say a more mature lawn.
> 
> the bare strip - that was my thought - did they spill some chemicals. I had a contractor clean his paint supplies in my yard and the grass is sill bare there. I may dig it up and replace with fresh soil. Could also have something buried close to the surface there too.


Thanks, appreciate it. I do like the size, some things about it are a little annoying of the placement of stuff but, hey got to have a little bit of a challenge right?

Yes this is a brand new construction house. It was completed in November. The entire neighborhood is brand new. They sure as hell know it's brand new because the company (its a local trugreen type company) works closely with the builder and gets notified to come and advertise to us as soon as the house closes as they do the termite bonds. That starts and we get the guy coming to our house advertising their other services. I was getting married in 2 months, moving into a new home, getting other stuff settled in and didn't feel i had the time to properly research how to keep control of the lawn. So I got their lawn care (weed and fertilizer) service for the first year to give me time to learn it all, so here I am. Now that I know more Im not all that impressed. But live and learn.

That was a long way of saying, yes they applied pre emergents, because they just follow the most generic schedule. The guy rides around on his scooter fertilizer spreader and spot treats weeds and then fertilizes all the yards that have service, He misses about half the weeds.

I'm 99% sure something was dropped there. It was all green back in early May, they treated in June and it turned brown. As did around the bottom part of the house like you saw in first video. The "death strip" is still there but the grass next to the house has almost recovered. It's almost like he glyphosated it.

While this isn't a direct image of it you can clearly see it's still green down the side of the house and there is no "death strip"


http://imgur.com/Hpm94


This was back in May. You can also see that first bare spot I show in the update video. Still there haha. Which is part of of my frustration, after 2.5 months figured it would be closed up st this point.

My plan for the "death strip" is to go rip up all the dead grass, strip it to soil, aerate it by hand, throw some sand and topsoil and fertilizer and see what happens.

Thanks CK. I feel that I'm documenting my problems like you suggested, and asking the "why" but unfortunately I don't know enough to feel I can know the answer, just not enough experience yet I feel.

You pretty much covered the majority of the questions in your list and I can answer most of them but not all.

1. I don't know this  wish I knew so i could correct it.
2. Plan to rip it up and see (see my explanation above of what I play on doing)
3. Same as #1 possibly related. I am throwing darts and hoping it sticks.
4. No idea but I can call and ask, but at this point they have one application left for the summer and the contract is over, so it won't really matter for much longer.
5. I have already done a water audit and I can get 1" in roughly 30 min of watering in locations that get hit the least. 
6. The front, back and left side of house get at least 6-8 hours of sun, the right side (looking from the road) gets decent amount of light except in that one small location (already planning on ripping it up).
7. I assume you are talking about the really nice green looking section I mentioned in the video, if so, I don't know why/how that is different. I unfortunately haven't done anything to the yard myself so I don't know why that is looking good. I hate to go digging up everywhere that looks like crap though to "test" theories. But not sure how else to do it.

Thanks for the suggestion about trugreen, i'll plan to call and see what they use on the yard and supplement it myself.

My other plan is to get the yard aerated. It's imo SUPER compacted. I also believe that there are rocks, cement and other debris in certain locations that's not helping me, unfortunately without ripping up what I do have I don't know how else to do it.

I would love that. How would i find my local extension? Is that common practice, if coming out? Would they come out for a small fee and answer any questions?

Thanks again for all the tips and help. I really appreciate it. I plan on keeping up with updates on my progress (like the videos).

Maybe one day I'll be on the other end of this conversation .


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

We're here to help each other, and that's why I love forums where we share the same interests. :thumbup: 
I was giving the #'s as an example of questions you could write on a list for you to make, and then start expanding on those, utilizing some common rational thinking, not being particular to any one area, i.e why is the grass thin in this area, and not here? One thing that I've found in the past is to get some surveyors flags that you can pick up at Lowe's/HD and put them in areas that you're wanting to keep an eye on, or to monitor. Establish a control area, then make one change (aerate, water by hand a little more, fertilize, etc) the other areas. Make a map, and document what you're doing to those areas. The more methodical you can be about your changes, the more likely you'll find a solution to that particular problem.

One thing I thought about is that you could go ahead treat the sedge that you visibly see in the yard. Go ahead and pick up some Sedgehammer from www.domyown.com or Amazon. Prime is a wonderful thing! I can almost guarantee TruGreen isn't going to treat that from the information that you've given regarding your dissatisfaction with their service.

Here's the link for Madison County's Cooperative Extension Office. It looks like the person to talk to would be Rhonda Britton. Choose your method of contact, I find email to be very convenient.

One more thing, and I've got to get to sleep. It's been a long day for me. I think these two points might have merit for your situation. LCN had his latest video where he was walking along in his old town with Jake, and he made some good points about (1.) how to look at the sidewalk to see what's going on in a lawn, and (2.) why seeded lawns always look better than sodded lawns. 8:20 for the first point, and 13:27 for the second. Jake kinda creeps me out the way he's looking at the camera over Allyn's shoulder :shock:


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> We're here to help each other, and that's why I love forums where we share the same interests. :thumbup:
> I was giving the #'s as an example of questions you could write on a list for you to make, and then start expanding on those, utilizing some common rational thinking, not being particular to any one area, i.e why is the grass thin in this area, and not here? One thing that I've found in the past is to get some surveyors flags that you can pick up at Lowe's/HD and put them in areas that you're wanting to keep an eye on, or to monitor. Establish a control area, then make one change (aerate, water by hand a little more, fertilize, etc) the other areas. Make a map, and document what you're doing to those areas. The more methodical you can be about your changes, the more likely you'll find a solution to that particular problem.
> 
> One thing I thought about is that you could go ahead treat the sedge that you visibly see in the yard. Go ahead and pick up some Sedgehammer from www.domyown.com or Amazon. Prime is a wonderful thing! I can almost guarantee TruGreen isn't going to treat that from the information that you've given regarding your dissatisfaction with their service.
> ...


Thanks! Yeah, I understood what you were saying but was just answering those questions directly as some of them I already knew an answer to, the others I feel i'm pretty clueless.

I did go ask Waynes (Trugreen company) and they said they are applying 25-2-10. So you are right, they aren't hardly applying any P to the yard to help stimulate root growth. I did want to go buy all the stuff to lay fertilizer down...but looks like i'll be getting a spreader here to supplement what waynes is doing. Funny enough, the areas that I have hand fertilized, looks really green. I just hope it isn't a mental game I'm seeing. The stuff changes so slow it can really bias you on what is really going on.

Thanks for the links for the extension office. I'll shoot them an email. Also thanks for the link the LCN video. I'll give it a watch. I have watched almost all of his videos except some of his newer ones. As always thanks again.


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## csbutler (Jun 15, 2017)

kur1j said:


> Colonel K0rn said:
> 
> 
> > We're here to help each other, and that's why I love forums where we share the same interests. :thumbup:
> ...


My wife and I purchased our home in February and almost as soon as we moved in Waynes was calling. I didn't think I'd have time to manage the yard this year and I also had crabgrass popping up everywhere so I signed up. I ended up canceling at the first of June because they couldn't kill the crabgrass even though they said they could. Not to mention they would leave clumps or fertilizer in the yard and all over my drive way.



I ordered some drive xlr8 and the crabgrass was dead in about a week. Ever since then I've just been giving it milo and water. I would definitely aerate when you can. I had immediate and amazing results.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

csbutler said:


>


  I'd be really upset that the tech didn't clean that mess up before they left. That's really careless, and shows blatant disregard to treat the customer right. That being said, I actually had the same thing happen to me last week, when I had the Scott's spreader I was using hit a hole I haven't filled in the yard, causing it to lurch forward and to the left, dumping about 10# of 12-4-8 on the ground. Thankfully, I had just mowed, so I could see it fairly easily, and I hadn't made multiple passes yet, so I brought my shop vac out to that portion of the lawn. I removed the bag, vacuumed the entire area that the pile was in, and dumped the contents back into the spreader. Upon closer inspection of the spreader, I saw that the carriage bolt that goes in the handle wasn't seated all the way, and what I thought was tight, really wasn't. The fall actually creased one of the handles, and now it's back at the store I bought it from. I'm buying an Earthways spreader.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> csbutler said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


I was about to buy an earthway spreader myself. For the size of my lawn do you think the 2250 is big enough? Or do you think i should get the 2170? I think the only difference is that the 70 is slightly bigger in that it can hold 100lbs of fertilizer instead of 70.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

I just bought a 2170 off of zoro.com, and that's the one that a lot of the people here have and recommend. For the price difference, and the fact that you usually take your lawn tools with you when you move, I'd say get the larger one that you can afford; buy it once and be done. Then again, you could always go with the Lesco, but since you just got the powered reel mower, you might be a little strapped haha

BTW, if you do decide to get that one off of zoro.com, be advised that the 20% off coupon is only good for one order.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> I just bought a 2170 off of zoro.com, and that's the one that a lot of the people here have and recommend. For the price difference, and the fact that you usually take your lawn tools with you when you move, I'd say get the larger one that you can afford; buy it once and be done. Then again, you could always go with the Lesco, but since you just got the powered reel mower, you might be a little strapped haha
> 
> BTW, if you do decide to get that one off of zoro.com, be advised that the 20% off coupon is only good for one order.


Thanks. Yeah, the only major thing I have left to really get IMO is a sprayer. I was planning on getting a cheap 1gallon for spot spraying and a larger one for full yard. The only thing I can think of that I might need to do full yard spray is preemergent. But I think that is in the spring if I remember correctly.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Nothing wrong with that, I also just ordered a 4 gallon sprayer for further torture in the yard  It seems like a lot of the other dudes on here are buying the Chapin push sprayer, and trying to work out the kinks on theirs, and modifying them as well.

There's a really good thread about a noob bermuda schedule here. Ware wrote a good reply about application schedules, as well as links to a few university articles about our grass.


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

Okay I finally had the chance to sit down and listen to all your videos and read your entire post. 
I basically think you need a reset on your lawn. And no I don't mean a renovation. I'm not sure how much time you want to put into your Bermuda lawn, but it can be a high input lawn depending on mowing height and overall expectations. Even for a low input Bermuda lawn. Mowing at 1", with a weed free lawn is very achievable with minimal input/time.

You will have to, In No particular order:
A.) mow 2 times a week at minimum. More if you're getting lots of rain.
B.) apply preemergent twice a year.
C.)scalp and detach at the beggining of the season. 
D.)use certainty/sedghanmer for sedge and celcius for everything else as needed. 
E.)Fertilize every 4-6 weeks with a SLOW RELEASE fertilizer. Fast release is like a shot of fertilizer and then your left with a hungry lawn. 
F.)water the lawn.

My suggestions. 
1.) FIRE TRUGREEN. They applied things that should've not been applied like premergent and in my opinion herbicides. Your lawn was just too young. Fertilization is probably also deficient with the amount of rain/irrigation you're getting. Also if they are using fast release fertilizer once a month, that's not enough. Anyways, if you need someone to do your fertilization/weed treatment, have them apply only what you specify them to apply. I can explain slow vs fast release fertilizers in depth later.

2.)Have patience. this is not a 1 month or even 2 month fix. It will take some time but we can definitely get there. I think your Bermuda is just stressed out being that it is such a young lawn and was also treated with preeemergent as it was said before, definitely retarded the growth.

3. Stop using any herbicides, for now. let's focus on getting your Bermuda growing strong. Yes you will have some weeds but soon they will be a thing if the past.

4. Mow your lawn as low as possible scalp as we discussed on the other thread), fertilize, and keep up with the mowing. Let see what happens from there. We will deal with any trouble spots later.

Final Thoughts:
The inconsistency has to do with preemergent/herbicide use, possibly fungus with the amount of rain/ lack of fertilizer. Dead spots (like the dead strip) might be something else but let's correct those once the lawn is growing strong. I also doubt you have thatch problems being that it's s young lawn.

What to do next:
scalp the lawn and aerate it if you can find someone to do it but 220 is prob a fair price (they have to make their money) and fertilize . I've paid 70 for rental and saved money on labor since I did it my self.

Again, 
You can do all of this once you get your hands on all the right equipment. Reel mower was a big step. 
For now that's all I have and I'll answer any questions you may have.


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> Nothing wrong with that, I also just ordered a 4 gallon sprayer for further torture in the yard  It seems like a lot of the other dudes on here are buying the Chapin push sprayer, and trying to work out the kinks on theirs, and modifying them as well.
> 
> There's a really good thread about a noob bermuda schedule here. Ware wrote a good reply about application schedules, as well as links to a few university articles about our grass.


Great link!!


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Iriasj2009 said:


> Okay I finally had the chance to sit down and listen to all your videos and read your entire post.
> I basically think you need a reset on your lawn. And no I don't mean a renovation. I'm not sure how much time you want to put into your Bermuda lawn, but it can be a high input lawn depending on mowing height and overall expectations. Even for a low input Bermuda lawn. Mowing at 1", with a weed free lawn is very achievable with minimal input/time.
> 
> You will have to, In No particular order:
> ...


Awesome! Thanks for the information. I have no problems with taking 2, 3, 4 months or however long it needs, but I just like to make progress. I plan on scalping ASAP. I am knocking out one of your items on the list as I am having the yard aerated this Monday. I also plan on talking to Wayne's again to either ask them to only apply what I ask or to stop coming. It is a stupid contract so I will probably forfeit all of that money, unfortunately.


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

Great! As for your contract, definitely finish off the year, but only ask to fertilize for now. I really think you can tackle fertilization on your own after the contract is over. Can you find out what kind of fertilizer they are applying? I know you said a 25-2-10 but I'm curious to see if he knows how much slow/ fast realease nitrogen it contains.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Iriasj2009 said:


> Great! As for your contract, definitely finish off the year, but only ask to fertilize for now. I really think you can tackle fertilization on your own after the contract is over. Can you find out what kind of fertilizer they are applying? I know you said a 25-2-10 but I'm curious to see if he knows how much slow/ fast realease nitrogen it contains.


I asked for the brand, type (fast/slow), NPK and his rate he was applying it. I got a response of 25-2-10 and that was it. He either doesn't want to tell me, doesn't know, or doesn't want to be bothered with me.

Oh I am definitely wanting to do this on my own. The contract runs out in November (when we moved in). It I didn't know how to do the yard care at the time, we were getting married 2 months later, had a whole bunch of other stuff going on at the time so I did that for a year. Told myself it would buy me time to research and do it properly myself. Here I am .


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

kur1j said:


> I asked for the brand, type (fast/slow), NPK and his rate he was applying it. I got a response of 25-2-10 and that was it. He either doesn't want to tell me, doesn't know, or doesn't want to be bothered with me.
> 
> Oh I am definitely wanting to do this on my own. The contract runs out in November (when we moved in). It I didn't know how to do the yard care at the time, we were getting married 2 months later, had a whole bunch of other stuff going on at the time so I did that for a year. Told myself it would buy me time to research and do it properly myself. Here I am .


Okay no big deal. As long as he fertilizes once a month, we should be good. Maybe we can push a little bit more fertilizer after you scalp.

There's nothing wrong with paying someone to do something for you. Heck, if I could just pay someone to apply exactly what I want them to apply, I would but I'm too cheap to pay someone. Also depends on the size of your lawn. I think Yours is a great size to do it on your own, without spending all of your time on the lawn. Right now I'm mowing every 3 days and only takes me 15 mins to do so and I edge every Saturday. Fert/and other random treatments are done once every 4-6 weeks. Now I'm spending more time on the garden.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Iriasj2009 said:


> kur1j said:
> 
> 
> > I asked for the brand, type (fast/slow), NPK and his rate he was applying it. I got a response of 25-2-10 and that was it. He either doesn't want to tell me, doesn't know, or doesn't want to be bothered with me.
> ...


Unfortunately they usually only come once every 6-8 weeks. The new application won't be for another 2 weeks or so.

I don't have a problem with paying anyone either but when I have to monitor them and then when i ask them questions and they don't know and want to BS me then that's what i feel i don't need to deal with that and just rather do it myself. Plus at this point I am enjoying mowing and messing with stuff.

I'm having the lawn aerated today. Will see how this turns out.


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

Makes sense. Take some pics for us. 
Also, Buy a bag of starter fertilizer, something 1-1-0 or 1-2-0 ratio and apply it at full rate after they aerate.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Iriasj2009 said:


> Makes sense. Take some pics for us.
> Also, Buy a bag of starter fertilizer, something 1-1-0 or 1-2-0 ratio and apply it at full rate after they aerate.


I know that slow release will release all of its nutritients in about 2 weeks, slow release will happen over 4-6 weeks, But is there a quick way to tell if it's slow or fast release? Is starter fertilizer considered fast release?

Also forgot to ask. I know that the NPK is the percent of each. But how do you know (without a soil sample every time) how much is too much or not enough? For example you said apply at 1-1-0 ratio. If I grab a bag of 16-16-0 and I apply that at "full rate" I would have to apply twice as much if I got 8-8-0 would i not? What happens when waynes comes out and wants to apply their 24-2-10 or whatever it is 2 weeks later? Will that end up killing the lawn?


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

I thought you'd ask haha. Most big box stores fertilizers tend to have very little slow release from my experience. Sometimes they'll say it on the bags. I've used Scott's starter (mostly fast release) fert at full rate every 2 weeks in efforts to keep it well fed (also deficient in phosphorus). It won't damage your Bermuda as long as you water it in. I think you were low on phosphorus anyways so you can definitely use the full rate. As for nitrogen, I wouldnt worry about their application in 2 weeks, since I was going to recommend you to put some more down either way. Buy some starter fert like I said and let us know what you buy and I'll do some research to figure out how much is slow release. 
As for the 16-16-0 and 8-8-0, you would have to put twice as much of the 8-8-0. 6.25 lbs or 12.5lbs per 1k sqft respectively. The bags that are sold will typically let you know how much they cover, or you can do the math.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Iriasj2009 said:


> I thought you'd ask haha. Most big box stores fertilizers tend to have very little slow release from my experience. Sometimes they'll say it on the bags. I've used Scott's starter (mostly fast release) fert at full rate every 2 weeks in efforts to keep it well fed (also deficient in phosphorus). It won't damage your Bermuda as long as you water it in. I think you were low on phosphorus anyways so you can definitely use the full rate. As for nitrogen, I wouldnt worry about their application in 2 weeks, since I was going to recommend you to put some more down either way. Buy some starter fert like I said and let us know what you buy and I'll do some research to figure out how much is slow release.
> As for the 16-16-0 and 8-8-0, you would have to put twice as much of the 8-8-0. 6.25 lbs or 12.5lbs per 1k sqft respectively. The bags that are sold will typically let you know how much they cover, or you can do the math.


Sorry yeah, I wrote the backwards. 100 lbs of 8-8-8 is 50lbs of 16-16-0.

So what is the "end goal" metric you are trying to reach? Lbs of NPK per 1k? So am i trying to achieve 5lbs of N - 5lbs of P - 5kbs of K per 1k sqft? So to achieve that in a 16-16-16 in a 50lb bag, so I would need to apply roughly 31 lbs of fertilizer per 1k sqft to achieve that 5lbs of NPK.

Or is that what "full rate means?" What is the best way to know how much your spreader is actually spraying out for its settings?


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

Full rate typically means nitrogen. Starter fert will do. As for your spreader settings, the bag should tell you depending on what type of spreader.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Iriasj2009 said:


> Full rate typically means nitrogen. Starter fert will do. As for your spreader settings, the bag should tell you depending on what type of spreader.





http://imgur.com/rKgZ0


All aerated! I plan on doing as you suggested and putting down some fertilizer as well. Hopefully tomorrow. The greens mower also should arrive tomorrow!

Should I wait a week or so until those plugs go away before I scalp or will running it over several times with the rotary mower be enough you think?


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

Awesome!! 
Great question, the times I've aerated, I swept them away, (pretty clayee cores) but in your case I think I would just run the mower over it to break them up as much as you can. Are the plugs clayish or do they crumble up?!


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

:thumbup: Looks like they did a nice job. Wait for them to dry up, then bust em up with your rotary.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Iriasj2009 said:


> Awesome!!
> Great question, the times I've aerated, I swept them away, (pretty clayee cores) but in your case I think I would just run the mower over it to break them up as much as you can. Are the plugs clayish or do they crumble up?!


They are really clayee, but in this heat they are drying out pretty quick.l and will crumble.

Also forgot to include. Measured the yard. It's about 5700sqft.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

kur1j said:


> Also forgot to include. Measured the yard. It's about 5700sqft.


Perfect time to update your profile with how big your lawn is  :thumbup:


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> kur1j said:
> 
> 
> > Also forgot to include. Measured the yard. It's about 5700sqft.
> ...


yes update please, but I'm sure he's too beat up to put up pics lol. Where are your updates mighty?!!!!


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

So here is an update for my pre scalp and after scalp.

Pre scalp - https://youtu.be/7mfCjc3c1B8
Post scalp - https://youtu.be/nHLziW-8-Zo

So what do I do next? Besides cutting it every 3 days or so? How much more do I need to water? Do I need to throw out some more fertilizer? I just put out fertilizer 2 weeks ago.

Any other suggestions?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

How often are you watering? Did the fertilizer have any slow release?


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> How often are you watering? Did the fertilizer have any slow release?


I'm watering every 5 days at .75" or so because is so hot. In the past 3 days we got 2 inches of rain.

It was all fast release from my understanding.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

kur1j said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> > How often are you watering? Did the fertilizer have any slow release?
> ...


Try going .50" every 3 days unless you get some rain of course. If it was all fast release then you may want to fertilize again here soon. If you are going to use fast release again, I would only put down about .5 lb of Nitrogen/K every 2-3 weeks.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> kur1j said:
> 
> 
> > Mightyquinn said:
> ...


Sounds good.

I'm going to have to email Wayne's to figure out when they are coming out next. Should be pretty soon as they haven't been out in 6 weeks or so. Hate to throw out fertilizer and then they come out the next day.

I was told when I bought it the fertilizer was fast release but there was nothing obvious on the bag to say it was fast or slow. Is there a good way to determine that?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Didn't realize you had a company spraying your lawn  I will admit that I did skim some of the thread so that's my fault 

The fertilizer bag will usually say how much of a % is slow release on the label(and then you usually have to do some quick and easy math). Do you know what kind it was or where you bought it?


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> Didn't realize you had a company spraying your lawn  I will admit that I did skim some of the thread so that's my fault
> 
> The fertilizer bag will usually say how much of a % is slow release on the label(and then you usually have to do some quick and easy math). Do you know what kind it was or where you bought it?


Long story short. I got them doing the lawn treatment for the first year as it was my first lawn, was getting married 2 months after we moved in, and didn't feel I had time to research what I needed to research in time. My full intention was once I had time, to do the research, and do it all myself....so here I am . This treatment will be their last treatment for the year.

It was called "Farmer's Favorite Fertilizer" 13-13-13. Put out a 50lb bag. I got it from a local feed and seed company that is part of a sod farm.

I can't seem to find much on it. I'm not sure where else I can get some high-quality fertilizer (like Harrell's or Lesco). This place only has Hi-Yield, this brand and another that I can't quite remember the name of.


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

It contains 13% ammoniacal nitrogen which is readily available to the plant, in other words, fast release fert. I advise you to apply it at .5lbs /1kft like mighty said. So can definitely use another app.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Iriasj2009 said:


> It contains 13% ammoniacal nitrogen which is readily available to the plant, in other words, fast release fert. I advise you to apply it at .5lbs /1kft like mighty said. So can definitely use another app.


Is it only considered fast/slow release for the nitrogen component? What about the P and K? How do you know which is considered fast/slow release? Is there a chart or something that will tell me?

If I apply another application of fertilizer this week, what would be a good application of fertilizer to tell TruGreen when they come (if they do within the next 2 weeks?)


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

kur1j said:


> So here is an update for my pre scalp and after scalp.
> 
> Pre scalp -
> 
> ...


Is the backyard 100% sun? Downspout into the yard _usually_ will inhibit optimal performance. Inevitably leads to problems ....moss etc. consider burying, running further out next year.


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

They are all fast release, available to the plant immediately. according to your soil report, you need more than the avg lawn,but you don't want to be putting down more than 1.5 lbs per thousand since It will just be contaminating the ground water. Apply .5 lbs bi weekly of the 13-13-13 until the end of the season. I'm basically on the same fert schedule as you are since every year my soil report comes back with low phosphorus and potassium levels. I just sent in another soil sample to see if my fertilization has helped any. Once you have a solid stand of Bermuda, you should be able to back off the fertilizer.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

jayhawk said:


> kur1j said:
> 
> 
> > So here is an update for my pre scalp and after scalp.
> ...


Pretty much. The front of the house is facing east. I would say it gets at least 90% sun all day (8AM to 5PM). There really isn't much to block it other than the house itself.

What do you mean by the downspouts will inhibit optimal performance? I assume you mean the grass? If so, yeah it is all dead. The builder put them there and I never removed them and just keep mowing around them because its all dead and just dirt. If I remove them and we get a big rain it turns into a washed out area.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Iriasj2009 said:


> They are all fast release, available to the plant immediately. according to your soil report, you need more than the avg lawn,but you don't want to be putting down more than 1.5 lbs per thousand since It will just be contaminating the ground water. Apply .5 lbs bi weekly of the 13-13-13 until the end of the season. I'm basically on the same fert schedule as you are since every year my soil report comes back with low phosphorus and potassium levels. I just sent in another soil sample to see if my fertilization has helped any. Once you have a solid stand of Bermuda, you should be able to back off the fertilizer.


That sounds good. That 50lb bag ended up being about ~1.1lbs of fertilizer over the entire yard.

I assume by all are fast release you mean the P and K? How do I know if I get a bag and it's slow or fast release?


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

You just look at the label on the bag. If it has slow release it will say what percentage it is where they break down the contents of the bag, normally denoted with an asterisk *


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

J_nick said:


> You just look at the label on the bag. If it has slow release it will say what percentage it is where they break down the contents of the bag, normally denoted with an asterisk *


Ok cool. So the bottom bag picture basically has a little over 4% slow release Nitrogen? Is this the same case for P and K (bag mentioning it's got slow or fast release).

What if it's completely slow release fertilizer? Would it explicitly say that it's all slow release?


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

The yellow bag is 100% slow release. It's a 40-0-0 and at the bottom says 40% slow release. So all the Nitrogen is coated with sulfur. The rest just being filler material.

The 2nd photo has 6.5% slow release (last line of text in the box). It's a 26-0-2 so 1/4 of the 26 is slow release the remaining 3/4 being fast release.

6.5/26=.25 so 25% slow release.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Forgot to mention the P & K. In my experience I've never seen any that are slow release it's normally just the Nitrogen that's fast/slow.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

J_nick said:


> Forgot to mention the P & K. In my experience I've never seen any that are slow release it's normally just the Nitrogen that's fast/slow.


Ah, interesting. So how does this affect your calculations on how much fertilizer to put down?


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

The fert I use normally doesn't have much P&K. My soil has adequate levels of both. I did put some down during seeding with a starter fert but mainly due to seeding recommendations.

I normally just shoot for 1#N/1000 with as much slow release as I can find.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

J_nick said:


> Forgot to mention the P & K. In my experience I've never seen any that are slow release it's normally just the Nitrogen that's fast/slow.


I agree with you JN but some of the "higher end" golf fertilizer DO have slow release Potassium. I am using something very similar to this NX-PRO 25-0-15 and it has slow release Potassium.

But generally speaking, I would say 90-95% of most fertilizers are going to be FAST release when it comes to P & K :thumbup:


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Small update on some progress.

August 13th 2017
https://imgur.com/a/bv8xA

August 19th 2017
https://imgur.com/a/CG1pu

I applied .5lb of N/1k on the 15th.

However, I did have a set back slightly.

When fertilizing I was walking the spreader on the lawn. I was setting up to do a pass of the small patch between the walkway and the street. I had closed the spread all the way...but it didn't actually close...it basically dumped 5lbs of fertilizer all over this small patch of yard. I'm 100% sure I closed it as I couldn't get it to stop. The damn vent thing would NOT CLOSE. So it was just dropping everything....awesome. I manually reached down there and yanked it closed and finally got it to stop.

At this point I picked up as much as I could, I took my blower and blew it around as much as I could where I couldn't even see it at all hardly in those spots. I then soaked that area with almost 2" of water or more and it still burnt and killed the grass. I'm bummed and annoyed but it is what it is and just hope it fills in soon.

Now that it's burnt is there anything special I should do?


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

Looks much better, when you scalp as aggressive as you did, it will take it a bit longer for it to come back but I see a big difference from when you initially scalped. As for the burnt area, you can add some plugs or I would just leave it. I've applied 2 rounds of round up 2 weeks apart and it still came back. It's a matter of how fast do you want it to recover. A proplugger is your best friend in ghis situation.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Iriasj2009 said:


> Looks much better, when you scalp as aggressive as you did, it will take it a bit longer for it to come back but I see a big difference from when you initially scalped. As for the burnt area, you can add some plugs or I would just leave it. I've applied 2 rounds of round up 2 weeks apart and it still came back. It's a matter of how fast do you want it to recover. A proplugger is your best friend in ghis situation.


I think my biggest concern at this point is I wasn't aggressive enough. I scalped at .75 expecting to be able to mow at 1.1 or so but because I have a groomer doesn't look it will go up that high. Only to .9ish. I'm worried that i'll be back in the same place before where I'm basically constantly scalping every time I mow.

As for the brunt spots they aren't that large. I'll get a picture. But i would say I could get maybe 1 or possible 2 4" plugs out of it.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Pictures of my screw up 

https://imgur.com/a/EgJMy


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

kur1j said:


> Pictures of my screw up
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/EgJMy


That will be filled in in no time, keep it fed with nitrogen, just don't go crazy again lol.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Iriasj2009 said:


> kur1j said:
> 
> 
> > Pictures of my screw up
> ...


Yeah well it wasn't intentional at all. The damn spreader was just dropping it all because it didn't close. I closed it but the physical mechanism that lets it out didn't. Really annoying.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

So I applied my .5lbN/1kft to the yard last week and was going to apply another .5lb next week. However the TruGreen company called me and said they were coming out for the last application of the year. I was going to tell them to only apply .25lbs this week and then in another 2 weeks apply my .5lbs. Would that be reasonable?


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

kur1j said:


> So I applied my .5lbN/1kft to the yard last week and was going to apply another .5lb next week. However the TruGreen company called me and said they were coming out for the last application of the year. I was going to tell them to only apply .25lbs this week and then in another 2 weeks apply my .5lbs. Would that be reasonable?


That sounds good to me.


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