# Reseeding this month March



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

Hi everyone,new here to the forum,i live in south of France and it's still cold here but this march,it will get warmer through april,i have a thin lawn and some parts was taken over by weeds,i am planning to overseed some areas that are thin and bald,my question is,can a seed survive if i do the reseeding this month?i tried overseeding a small area this february but i notice that the seed did'nt germinate at all,it's my first post,thanks in advance


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Bonjour

How far south of France and east or west side? The weather is very different in Lyon vs Bordeaux. We first need to understand what type of grass you have or want. What type of grass seed you use?


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

g-man said:


> Bonjour
> 
> How far south of France and east or west side? The weather is very different in Lyon vs Bordeaux. We first need to understand what type of grass you have or want. What type of grass seed you use?


Hi man,Bordeaux and Lyon is like 5-6 hrs drive,i have a bermuda grass that was neglected by previous gardener,i can't really tell what type of grass i was able to buy coz these are french brand(Grass rustique,grass anglais) etc but these are surely warm season grass and can tolerate summer heat,i am just looking to thicken the existing bermuda,thanks G-man...


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

What kind of lawn chemicals are you able to get your hands on in France? Once we know what you have to work with the better we can guide you to what you want. If you do have bermuda, I doubt you will need to reseed at all.


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

And WELCOME to TLF!!!! I think you are the first person from France that we have had.


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> What kind of lawn chemicals are you able to get your hands on in France? Once we know what you have to work with the better we can guide you to what you want. If you do have bermuda, I doubt you will need to reseed at all.


Thanks for the welcome MightQuinn,last summer i use a very well known lawn fertilizer here called Floranid,i can remember the numbers but it ahs the highest nitrogen content,this existing bermuda is not 100% bermuda anymore,it's like 40% bermuda and mix with other varieties,there are some areas that it was overtaken by other types of grass,i will be trying some seeds that is pretty close to bermuda (in appearance) to fill up the thin areas,i want to thicken it so it won't be attacked by weeds again...


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

I think i'm mistaken,i am confused between bermuda and sod because here in France,we call it plaque de gazon,it's the one in this video...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGJ0_8fum68


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

What kind of shade issue do you have? If the area in question is heavily shaded you might have a hard time growing any kind of desirable grass in that location.

Is there anyway you can find out what kind of grass you do have? It will help with giving you the advice needed for it to flourish.


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> What kind of shade issue do you have? If the area in question is heavily shaded you might have a hard time growing any kind of desirable grass in that location.
> 
> Is there anyway you can find out what kind of grass you do have? It will help with giving you the advice needed for it to flourish.


I don't have problem with shades,i have big olive trees on that lawn though,the grass i have is sod and it's kinda little thin and have some bald areas,i am planning to put some seeds,just wanna ask if i can do it this march...thanks


----------



## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

The main thing you want to find out is what soil temperature is optimal for seed germination for the variety that you have, or are going to purchase. I would reach out to the distributor, and see if they make any recommendations on what the soil temp should be. For warm season folks(bermuda), it's recommended to sow the seed in the later part of Spring above 24-27°C, and with cool season, they typically overseed in the fall.


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

Colonel K0rn said:


> The main thing you want to find out is what soil temperature is optimal for seed germination for the variety that you have, or are going to purchase. I would reach out to the distributor, and see if they make any recommendations on what the soil temp should be. For warm season folks(bermuda), it's recommended to sow the seed in the later part of Spring above 24-27°C, and with cool season, they typically overseed in the fall.


Hi man,thanks for the input,the grass i'm buying is a summer grass,base on your comment,i think this march may not be suitable for this seed to germinate,24-27 degrees is maybe april,still a bit out here for now...


----------



## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Regardless of what type of grass seed you put down, it sounds like your February temperatures are well below where anything will germinate well. You might be surprised once your soil temps start to climb as you may yet see that seed germinate.

Even if you only have about 40% Bermuda grass in the existing lawn, I wouldn't be surprised if it was more like 80% bey this fall. That stuff is relentless!


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Toti

Could you post a picture of your lawn?

Merci


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

This is my problem,i don't know if this is weed or a grass who's in dormant...


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

These are the photos,what do you guys recommend to improve it?i would appreciate a lot....


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

That looks a lot like a cool season grass to me, fescue? What are your winter temperatures like?


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

Ridgerunner said:


> That looks a lot like a cool season grass to me, fescue? What are your winter temperatures like?


Coldest was - 3 but mostly it's 5-7 degrees in the morning but the sun shines almost everyday so the temp would go up to 10-12 in the afternoon,thanks Ridgerunner....


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I dont see bermuda in your pictures. The one with the word Dormant, looks different, but I'm not sure.

I agree with ridgerunner, it looks like a cool season lawn. Could you update your profile to list the closest larger city to you within France? This will help us make sure we are providing the proper feedback.

@Ware Could you move this thread to the cool season side?


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Before moving, let's see what the warm season people think of the pictures although I'm not sure any of them would recognize what a grass looks like when it's taller than a quarter inch. :lol:


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

g-man said:


> I dont see bermuda in your pictures. The one with the word Dormant, looks different, but I'm not sure.
> 
> I agree with ridgerunner, it looks like a cool season lawn. Could you update your profile to list the closest larger city to you within France? This will help us make sure we are providing the proper feedback.
> 
> @Ware Could you move this thread to the cool season side?


Originally,it was a sod or what we call plaque de gazon that was planted here 5 yrs ago,the old gardener neglected this lawn and maybe throw seeds there when it is thin not even knowing first what seed he is putting on the lawn,this is a summer house and the owner are only here for the summer so obviously,he needs to put a lawn for warm season,again,it was 100% sod before....


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

Ridgerunner said:


> Before moving, let's see what the warm season people think of the pictures although I'm not sure any of them would recognize what a grass looks like when it's taller than a quarter inch. :lol:


I mowed it at the shortest setting becoz i will scarify it in the next 2 weeks...


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

g-man said:


> I dont see bermuda in your pictures. The one with the word Dormant, looks different, but I'm not sure.
> 
> I agree with ridgerunner, it looks like a cool season lawn. Could you update your profile to list the closest larger city to you within France? This will help us make sure we are providing the proper feedback.
> 
> @Ware Could you move this thread to the cool season side?


I live in saint-tropez,it's like 65 km from Cannes,i'm sure this is not a cool season lawn,maybe some of them because this property is being occupied only on summer time...


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

This is the original sod i guess that i said was planted here few years ago,is this bermuda?


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

> Originally,it was a sod or what we call plaque de gazon that was planted here 5 yrs ago,the old gardener neglected this lawn and maybe throw seeds there when it is thin not even knowing first what seed he is putting on the lawn,this is a summer house and the owner are only here for the summer so obviously,he needs to put a lawn for warm season,again,it was 100% sod before....


Most warm season AND cool season grasses can be planted as sod (plaque). The fact that the lawn was originally established by sod does not determine whether the grass is a cool season or warm season grass and it's important to know which grass it is (cool or warm and the cultivar) to determine proper care. 
Google shows temperature ranges for St-tropez, to be 5C lows to 28C highs, and annual rainfall of 60 days or less with total rainfall around 725mm. That sound about right?


----------



## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

To me, it looks like a fescue or a ryegrass, and I can tell you that my grass went dormant once the evening temperatures went below 40°F. OP does not have bermuda.


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

Ridgerunner said:


> > Originally,it was a sod or what we call plaque de gazon that was planted here 5 yrs ago,the old gardener neglected this lawn and maybe throw seeds there when it is thin not even knowing first what seed he is putting on the lawn,this is a summer house and the owner are only here for the summer so obviously,he needs to put a lawn for warm season,again,it was 100% sod before....
> 
> 
> Most warm season AND cool season grasses can be planted as sod (plaque). The fact that the lawn was originally established by sod does not determine whether the grass is a cool season or warm season grass and it's important to know which grass it is (cool or warm and the cultivar) to determine proper care.
> Google shows temperature ranges for St-tropez, to be 5C lows to 28C highs, and annual rainfall of 60 days or less with total rainfall around 725mm. That sound about right?


Just about right,it was raining and snowing here last week until tomorrow,the last photo i posted,it was the original lawn (plaque) that was planted here before,if it's bermuda,i have no idea but the rest of the photos,it's all seed that the old gardener threw to thicken the lawn,i forgot to mention that the owner has 4 dogs,hence the bald areas,obviously,what was planted here is for summer,the owner wants a green lawn during summer...Thanks Ridgerunner man..


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Here is the site I used;
https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Rainfall-Temperature-Sunshine,saint-tropez,France
I don't know warm season grasses from trees. Maybe one of the warm season guys can recognize it.


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

Hi guys,i am planning to buy seed to be use for my overseeding plan this spring,i am a newbie to this stuffs and i need recommendations,i bumped on this onlien store that sells grass seed,the composition are the following...

A...20% English CARNAC Ray Grass.
10% red fescue 1/2 tracer CEZANNE.
35% tall fescue SPYDERLS.
35% Fescue high JAMBOREE.

B....30% of English Ray Grass CADIX.
10% of English Ray Grass ESCAPADE.
20% Tall Fescue TOMCAT / ASTERIX.
30% Tall Fescue GREENFRONT / TOMAWAHK.
10% of Fescue Red JASPERINA tracer.

Which of these ones suit my needs?i am looking for a grass that is similar to a sod (appearance and colors) and will mainly use for summer,thank you in advance guys....


----------



## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I'm going to move this to cool season for now, but will leave a shadow topic in place.


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Just wondering: Are you the property manager or the new gardener or...?
Both A and B are cool season grass blends. Specific cultivars of turf is not in my bailiwick. The only way to match new grass with old grass is to know the specific name of the old grass cultivar, otherwise you can only hope for "close." If you overseed the whole lawn with the new seed, it should all blend in for an acceptable appearance. To keep it looking green and healthy throughout the summer, it's going to need to be watered regularly.


----------



## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Ok i looked up plaque de gazon bermuda grass and it doesnt look like anything in most your pictures. Anything that is green right now in your lawn shouldnt be bermuda grass. A warm season Bermuda grass should be brown and dormant. 5 years of neglect can lead to large areas of weeds. Your yard should be mostly brown ( plaque de gazon) and not green.
As far as reseeding. I am not a fan if any Bermuda is left. I am not sure what you have growing in your yard now. You need to goto your local Farm department and take a sample and ask


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Toti:

Ray grass is what we call ryegrass in the USA. The scientific name is lolium perenne. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolium_perenne

Ryegrass is a cool season type of grass. Based on your weather, I would recommend a ryegrass or a tall fescue.

Based on the images, I think you don't need to seed the entire property. The lawn looks like it needs food (fertilizer). What fertilizer can you get locally that has nitrogen?


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

Ridgerunner said:


> Just wondering: Are you the property manager or the new gardener or...?
> Both A and B are cool season grass blends. Specific cultivars of turf is not in my bailiwick. The only way to match new grass with old grass is to know the specific name of the old grass cultivar, otherwise you can only hope for "close." If you overseed the whole lawn with the new seed, it should all blend in for an acceptable appearance. To keep it looking green and healthy throughout the summer, it's going to need to be watered regularly.


I am the new gardener,sorry that i have no idea about these variety of grass,basically,i was looking for a grass that won't go dormant on summer,what types of grass composition then would you recommend?thanks


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

g-man said:


> Toti:
> 
> Ray grass is what we call ryegrass in the USA. The scientific name is lolium perenne. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolium_perenne
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input G-man,i was'nt really looking to seed the property,i only intend to reseed those thin patches and bald areas that was damaged by dog urine,we commonly use FLORANID GAZON for fertilizer,it's something like 20-5-8 and it's the best we can get here,if i use ryegrass and tall fescue,you said that these are cool season grass,that would mean,they are dormant on summer and won't turn green even with fertilizers?


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I just looked up your average weather where you live Toti and it seems like a cool season grass would do best in your location. You may want to find a seed mix with a couple of varieties of seed(Rye, Tall Fescue or KBG). Maybe another Cool Season member can confirm this but these temps do not look favorable for Warm Season turf.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Toti a cool season lawn is preferred over a warm season one since they are better.

If it gets too hot (37c) and dry, and not watered, they will loose color and go dormant. It recovers quickly once it starts raining or watered.

A warm season lawn does not handle the cold winter. It turns brown and dormant once the temperature drops.

Changing your lawn to a Bermuda will be expensive. It is really hard to grow Bermuda from seed. You will need to kill all of your grass and install plaque de Garzón of Bermuda. Then you will need to maintain the Bermuda.

The fertilizer you listed is good and should help your lawn.

PS I'm traveling to France tomorrow, but I will be in the north side.


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> I just looked up your average weather where you live Toti and it seems like a cool season grass would do best in your location. You may want to find a seed mix with a couple of varieties of seed(Rye, Tall Fescue or KBG). Maybe another Cool Season member can confirm this but these temps do not look favorable for Warm Season turf.


Wow that answers my question,appreciated sir,thanks a lot


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

> I am the new gardener,sorry that i have no idea about these variety of grass,basically,i was looking for a grass that won't go dormant on summer,what types of grass composition then would you recommend?thanks


I would suggest that you dance with the person who brought you. It looks like the property has fescue and rye (ray) grass, so that is what I would seed. Dormancy in cool season grasses is a defense mechanism, but can be avoided. Cool season grasses do need more water to stay green during summer, but here in Ohio we average summer temperatures in the eighties and sometimes nineties for a week and we commonly keep our cool season lawns green all summer with regular watering.
As I've said, I'm not familiar with warm season grasses, other than that they can do well during hot summers with less water than cool season grasses, but my understanding is that you would not want to mix warm and cool season grasses as that results in a weedy, unattractive appearance. It is either all or nothing.
Anyone (maybe a transition zone person) have any insights?
EDIT: nevermind on the warm season, I just re-read MQ's comments on its appropriateness for your climate.


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

g-man said:


> @Toti a cool season lawn is preferred over a warm season one since they are better.
> 
> If it gets too hot (37c) and dry, and not watered, they will loose color and go dormant. It recovers quickly once it starts raining or watered.
> 
> ...


Good insight sir g-man,i have been browsing the online garden stores here and i've noticed that the majority of the grass being sold here are combination or tall fescue and ryegrass,that explains why,i appreciate the knowledge i got here in this forum,now it comes down to preference now between fescue and ryegrass,i have 2 boxes here,different brand that has combination of both so i guess,either one of them will work just fine,bon voyage on your trip to France,too bad,i am in the far south...thank you


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

Ridgerunner said:


> > I am the new gardener,sorry that i have no idea about these variety of grass,basically,i was looking for a grass that won't go dormant on summer,what types of grass composition then would you recommend?thanks
> 
> 
> I would suggest that you dance with the person who brought you. It looks like the property has fescue and rye (ray) grass, so that is what I would seed. Dormancy in cool season grasses is a defense mechanism, but can be avoided. Cool season grasses do need more water to stay green during summer, but here in Ohio we average summer temperatures in the eighties and sometimes nineties for a week and we commonly keep our cool season lawns green all summer with regular watering.
> ...


Hi Ridge,i think i know what i need to do and that is,stick with rey and fescue,it's been watered heavily anyway in the summer so i think they will be just fine,thanks


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

Now here is a bit tricky,the owner will come around mid april and i want the lawn to be green as possible,normally,what i do every year is to fertilize (20-5-8) the lawn in 3rd week of march so it will be prepared for the owner on holy week,now,i am planning to do some light reseeding before they arrive and a bit confuse,what do you guys suggest?

1.Fertilize the lawn (march) first so it will be green when the owner arrives then reseed in last week of april?

2. Reseed,top soil and fertilize at the same time this last week of march?


----------



## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Time your fertilizer based on your past experience that results in pleasing the owner.
FYI: As far as seeding, grass seed will not germinate well when soil temperatures are below 11 degrees C. Ideal is 11 to 20C. Rule of thumb is to wait until night time temperatures stop falling below 11 degrees C.


----------



## Toti (Mar 1, 2018)

Ridgerunner said:


> Time your fertilizer based on your past experience that results in pleasing the owner.
> FYI: As far as seeding, grass seed will not germinate well when soil temperatures are below 11 degrees C. Ideal is 11 to 20C. Rule of thumb is to wait until night time temperatures stop falling below 11 degrees C.


Ok ridge,i think april would be the perfect time,the average temperature for the following week is still 7-8 degrees C so i think i will just wasting seed,thanks man...


----------

