# SPF-30 hybrid bluegrass



## jakemauldin

So I recently bought 200lbs of SPF-30 hybrid bluegrass from Outsidepride. I did this because my original plan for a shade tolerant zoysia went out the window when they had a seed shortage and prices went to $1600 per 50 lb bag. So living in North Texas I needed something that was shade tolerant that wasn't St. Augustine (wife hates it). So what is shade tolerant and a warm season grass? Not really any of them. So I decided that a cool season grass was my only option as a shade tolerant grass. I read and read over all the cool season grasses and could not find one that I felt could handle the heat and droughts we get here. Then I came across this hybrid and it appears to have tested rather well in small testing categories but the SAT of Turf grasses (NTEP) doesn't have test results on this grass yet or hasn't even began testing it. There's also very little information on residential users results of this turf. So I decided to be a guinea pig of this hybrid grass and seed this a mono-stand of grass and document my results since this is the closest thing to KBG I'm ever going to possibly have success with in North Texas. Wish me luck and I'd love to hear your thoughts or recommendations since most of my time has been spent in the warm season side on this forum and in the yard.


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## Powhatan

In fall of 2017 I put down 5% SPF 30 and 4% Fahreheit hybrid bluegrass (HBG) mixed with Southern Belle TTTF. I haven't added anymore since. The HBG is still there and spreading. Since I don't irrigate, it's been a good supplement to the KY-31.


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## ronjon84790

@jakemauldin I have spf30 in my 5-way blend *** backyard. Not sure how it will do as a monostrand but my blend holds up well in my climate. We are dry and hot in the summers. On average, 5 degrees cooler then Las Vegas on any given day. Here is a pic last August cut at 2 5/8". This is the first year I'll be maintaining it at less than 1".


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## jakemauldin

@Powhatan I most likely won't be able to install an irrigation system for a few years if at all due to GPM flowrate from the main. So that's good to know that it does seem to do well in drought. What kind of soil do you have it planted in?
@ronjon84790 First off your yard is impressive! Are you irrigated? I am concerned about the monostrand, that is the one thing I have not seen any articles about or even pictures of mono SPF30. Maybe when I make it happen I'll go viral as the first successful homeowner to grow a mono of SPF30HBG in Texas!! haha


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## Rucraz2

I actually tried it with some midnight back in 2015 I think it was, on a partial reno. I moved two yrs after seeding. I was not really impressed actually. It didn't spread real quick and color wasn't up to what I imagined it would be. It might work differently for you in texas? I felt I read a lot of hype about it and was maybe expecting too much???


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## ronjon84790

Thanks @jakemauldin

I have an irrigation system. Grass would not grow here without it. We are dry, hot, and get nominal rain each year. It will be sweet to see you grow a monostrand spf30. Can't wait to see it.


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## Powhatan

jakemauldin said:


> I most likely won't be able to install an irrigation system for a few years if at all due to GPM flowrate from the main. So that's good to know that it does seem to do well in drought. What kind of soil do you have it planted in?


@jakemauldin I have sandy clay loam. My last soil test CEC # was 8.5 which is on the sandy side. I've been adding organic matter to help make my CEC # go up.


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## maynardGkeynes

I did a monostand of Thermal Blue Blaze a few years ago in Washington DC. The color is not bad. It's darker than Thermal Blue and probably darker than SPF30. However, it was pretty unattractive, rather dull looking, and moderately thick bladed. Also, it never really formed a dense turf, but maybe that was my fault. I'll be interested in your results.


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## willn

I am in DFW also and looking at the Thermal Blue, SPF 30, and even Reveille (I bought some seed a couple of years ago).

Like you said, I have not seen much data on any of these. My decision is either Zoysia or one of these hybrids.

Keep us posted. I will probably start posting my progress soon.


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## lucas287

@jakemauldin any updates on how it went?


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## jakemauldin

So I'm awaiting some results, I seeded it on 6/15 and the following morning we had 3" of rain from what was supposed to be a light drizzle with no accumulation. I'm hoping it didn't get wiped out. I feel like most of it should still be there. I seeded it along with Princess 77 in my (immediate yard 25k SF) the rest was planted with the SPF 30. The P 77 has started to emerge and make an appearance. I should see some SPF 30 in the next week I would think. I cannot find anything about the actual germination time frame for it. But I assume around two weeks.


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## spartanlawn

Because of a colossal screw up on my part I need to seed my front yard. Only thing in seven that grows is fescue and I think that would be a waste of seed in early July. I too have ordered spf30 and will let you know how it grows in Spartanburg South Carolina. If anyone has seeding tips please let me know


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## social port

spartanlawn said:


> Because of a colossal screw up on my part I need to seed my front yard. Only thing in seven that grows is fescue and I think that would be a waste of seed in early July. I too have ordered spf30 and will let you know how it grows in Spartanburg South Carolina. If anyone has seeding tips please let me know


Welcome to TLF. 
Please don't seed now in South Carolina. Your seeds will germinate and then heat and disease will take your younglings away from you.
Target fall.
Have a close read of this overseed guide.


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## Green

I had some Thermal Blue in my mix I used for an overseed last Fall. We are just getting into Summer heat now, but I expect good performance for the area which is not regularly irrigated. I can't tell which grass is the HBG and which is regular Bluegrass at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if they look about the same though. I'm excited about the idea of having a decently performing grass mix in that area. If it can make it in places like Texas and South Carolina, it should perform pretty well in Summer here in New England without too much issue.


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## jakemauldin

I have had quite a bit of germination of the SPF-30 just shy of 12 weeks post seed down. I planted this in areas that I was not able to water frequently or at all. We have had temps mostly in the upper 90's since seed down and had very little rainfall since. It has started to cool off a tad bit at night in the low 70's and we have had about 1/2" of rainfall last week. 
I did have a small area that germinated at initial seed planting and it greened up then once 100 degree days hit no matter how much water and care that area got it all turned yellow and I believed it surely had died, but with that 1/2" of rain I mentioned it just greened back up. So about the time I had given up on 1k dollars of SPF-30 here it comes popping up all over. Stay tuned!


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## jakemauldin

These pictures are all I have that show the progression of the SPF-30 that I planted since I basically thought it was a fail. 
This first picture has it starting to green up in the small patch at the top of the picture "the patch all by itself".


Then this picture shows it heat stressed and at the time what appeared to be very dead. Not a single bit of green. And this was watered the same as the Bermuda since I was trying to push the Bermuda out that direction. 

Then here's the SPF-30 making a comeback after some slightly cooler temps and a 1/2" of rain. 
[/url]


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## jeffcatton

Just wanted to share as I am new to this group and in Fort Worth Texas, disgusted with my grass I wanted KBG. I did some research and found KBG SPF-30 ... so I thought I would try it.

Pics added are after 4.5 weeks. Growing grass you sure do learn to be patient as grass grows in heat 

The grass is still germinating (3 seedings every 2 weeks with starter fertilizer).

Let me know what you think

Jeff

To be fare, when I first started it was 90-105 for the first 2 weeks.


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## maynardGkeynes

I think it looks good, especially if it can survive next summer's heat.


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## jeffcatton

Updating my pic for my yard in Fort Worth, TX using SPF30 KBG.
I have very happy with the way it has matured and filled in, only in a couple months time (start in September).


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## Bmossin

That looks awesome. I will be curious to see how it fares next August as well!


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## maynardGkeynes

Very impressive.
Looks darker than the Thermal Blue I tried a while back.
Is it 100% SPF-30?


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## jakemauldin

So my seed is now starting to germinate since I seeded the SPF-30 everywhere that I can't reach with irrigation. so it gets natural water only. I had a few showers before it got super hot and had a few small spots germinate and take off. they with stood the 105 Heat without water. These spots did brown out and go dormant almost looked dead to me at times but they have came back stronger than before with the rains we've gotten over the last few weeks. I have to bring up my side yard several feet and I might seed some more of this in the spring and will document what it does with actual proper irrigation. I'll also try to get around to taking some pics and might even do a video explaining whats happening with the SPF-30. 
@jeffcatton Your yard looks great. Do you know how many lbs/k you have put down altogether thus far? I originally threw out 200 lbs over 3 acres.


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## jeffcatton

Thanks Jake, I want to learn more about caring for SPF-30 in the heat and what has failed/worked for others as this is my first with SPF-30 in Texas heat. Hope you can share your experience also, thanks.

I have full irrigation on my yard (.25) and I used about 70lbs (over did it would say - impatient me) so far. I bought 2 @ 50lbs bags - 98% KBG germination rate. I will over reseed in January when it start to warm up so I can get the spots where it is not a thick. I am cutting high, at 3.5" right now to help force out any weeds and give a little more bend to the grass.

It is very dark, I like it. Others in the neighborhood are using Winter Rye (I used for 2 years), it is very light in color (lime green color but there is a Double Green which is darker). That winter rye is awful to cut (very wet - cannot mulch it), and it is messy - plugs the lawnmower. This is why I also moved to KBG SPF-30 for year round green grass : )

Jeff


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## jeffcatton

So you know, this is where I got my seed from ... https://www.outsidepride.com/


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## jakemauldin

This was back on 9/3 after some rainfall. It helped push the seed to germination after sitting there all summer. I'll try to mow/blow all the leaves once they are done falling and show the growth I've gotten since. It has progressed along.


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## jeffcatton

Well it is a start of a new year and nearing the end of January already, wow. Added a striper to my mower and it seems to work very well with the 3.5-4" high KBG-SPF30 grass in Fort Worth Texas. I hope this will make it through the hot summer with the longer grass and irrigation. Only time will tell!

Here are a couple updated pictures of the grass growing in Texas during the winter.


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## maynardGkeynes

Impressive! Do you know (rough estimate) the % of HKBG?


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## jeffcatton

Thanks. It says 98.77 pure seed with 85% germination rate. Pictures attached.

Hope that helps, let me know.


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## Ware

:thumbup:


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## jakemauldin

I watched it sleet at my house for the first time this winter. I went around and checked the SPF-30 progress, It has started to spread a bit. 


















The SPF-30 up close. I like the dark green color.


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## elm34

What height of cut are you maintaining your SPF-30 at? I also live in the DFW area and was looking for something to throw down in areas that don't get enough sun for Bermuda to grow. What prep work did you do before seeding your lawn?


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## w0lfe

Man if this stuff lasts without shade in few, I wouldn't mind experimenting with it on parts of my yard. I have a lot of sq ft, but this stuff is gorgeous


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## maynardGkeynes

w0lfe said:


> Man if this stuff lasts without shade in few, I wouldn't mind experimenting with it on parts of my yard. I have a lot of sq ft, but this stuff is gorgeous


I had an all hybrid KBG lawn of Thermal Blue Blaze. It was a solid stand, but it was not attractive like his, which really does look great. Now, it could be that SPF30 is a lot shinier and narrower bladed than TBB, but on my lawn TBB looked more like a not so great cultivar of TTTF. So, I'm tempted to try SPF30 also, but I wonder how it will turn out.


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## w0lfe

maynardGkeynes said:


> w0lfe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man if this stuff lasts without shade in few, I wouldn't mind experimenting with it on parts of my yard. I have a lot of sq ft, but this stuff is gorgeous
> 
> 
> 
> I had an all hybrid KBG lawn of Thermal Blue Blaze. It was a solid stand, but it was not attractive like his, which really does look great. Now, it could be that SPF30 is a lot shinier and narrower bladed than TBB, but on my lawn TBB looked more like a not so great cultivar of TTTF. So, I'm tempted to try SPF30 also, but I wonder how it will turn out.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking my front would be best suited because it's shielded from the sun by my house in the afternoon. But if this can withstand 100 degree temps consistently, I may experiment.


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## maynardGkeynes

w0lfe said:


> maynardGkeynes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> w0lfe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man if this stuff lasts without shade in few, I wouldn't mind experimenting with it on parts of my yard. I have a lot of sq ft, but this stuff is gorgeous
> 
> 
> 
> I had an all hybrid KBG lawn of Thermal Blue Blaze. It was a solid stand, but it was not attractive like his, which really does look great. Now, it could be that SPF30 is a lot shinier and narrower bladed than TBB, but on my lawn TBB looked more like a not so great cultivar of TTTF. So, I'm tempted to try SPF30 also, but I wonder how it will turn out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm thinking my front would be best suited because it's shielded from the sun by my house in the afternoon. But if this can withstand 100 degree temps consistently, I may experiment.
Click to expand...

If your soil temperature is consistently 100 degrees, HKBG is going to go dormant at best, and maybe not survive at all. TTTF might be a better choice for a shady area. HBKBG does not root as deeply at TTTF, which gets down to the cooler soil temperatures.

His pix do look fabulous, but as I said earlier, my experience is that HBKBG's are not showpiece lawns by any stretch of the imagination. Not sure I'd want it in my front yard. Too thick bladed, and just dull green when I've tried them. So, I give the gentleman a lot of credit for his success!


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## jakemauldin

I have been maintaining it at 1.5" and it has been g2g It is spreading nicely. It was just getting started last summer when it hit 105 a couple times but it came back and I basically didn't water it at all since it was not part of the main yard. This year I will try to maintain it better and plan to overseed at some point as well.


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## jeffcatton

Hi all, I started growing the KBG-SPF30 and had days > 100. It did fill in over the fall and winter. It is extremely thick and about 3.-4 " right now and have to cut every 5 days. It is very dark green and bends nice (last until next cut) with a home roller from 4" PVC filled with sand.

I am in Fort Worth and summers get very hot over 100 for 30 days or more. Hope it lasts being SPF30.

Pic is from my perimeter camera - last cut 6 days ago.

Jeff


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## jeffcatton

elm34 said:


> What height of cut are you maintaining your SPF-30 at? I also live in the DFW area and was looking for something to throw down in areas that don't get enough sun for Bermuda to grow. What prep work did you do before seeding your lawn?


I cut at 3.5-4" right now. Has a nice bend. I hope the 4" continues to keep weeds out.

Jeff


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## jeffcatton

Jake I hope you have luck in spring with it growing faster, especially with the nice rain.

The color is dark and amazing, I am sure you will like it.

Hope you can share your success.

Jeff


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## spartanlawn

social port said:


> spartanlawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because of a colossal screw up on my part I need to seed my front yard. Only thing in seven that grows is fescue and I think that would be a waste of seed in early July. I too have ordered spf30 and will let you know how it grows in Spartanburg South Carolina. If anyone has seeding tips please let me know
> 
> 
> 
> Welcome to TLF.
> Please don't seed now in South Carolina. Your seeds will germinate and then heat and disease will take your younglings away from you.
> Target fall.
> Have a close read of this overseed guide.
Click to expand...

Sc didn't really do anything this summer/early fall. I reseeded in October and I think it germed over the winter. Between the summer and fall it's coming in pretty nicely now. I dropped more seed a couple of weeks ago in mid February. I'm trying to get it as established as possible before the heat arrives. It is a great looking plant. We will see.


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## jakemauldin

spartanlawn said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spartanlawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because of a colossal screw up on my part I need to seed my front yard. Only thing in seven that grows is fescue and I think that would be a waste of seed in early July. I too have ordered spf30 and will let you know how it grows in Spartanburg South Carolina. If anyone has seeding tips please let me know
> 
> 
> 
> Welcome to TLF.
> Please don't seed now in South Carolina. Your seeds will germinate and then heat and disease will take your younglings away from you.
> Target fall.
> Have a close read of this overseed guide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sc didn't really do anything this summer/early fall. I reseeded in October and I think it germed over the winter. Between the summer and fall it's coming in pretty nicely now. I dropped more seed a couple of weeks ago in mid February. I'm trying to get it as established as possible before the heat arrives. It is a great looking plant. We will see.
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to see some progress pics if you have them.


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## spartanlawn

Does it look right or am I posting more pictures of weeds?


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## jakemauldin

spartanlawn said:


> Does it look right or am I posting more pictures of weeds?


That's spf-30 for sure. Along with some clover.


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## spartanlawn

I just spot sprayed spectracide weed stop (diluted from concentrate) to give the new seedlings a chance. Said it was safe for bluegrass. We'll see.


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## jeffcatton

Spring rain is so good for grass but I have to cut in between storms - Cut 2 times a week .... put a little seed down this spring, not much just in a few spots as the KBG grew / spread amazingly well once the warm temps hit us.


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## lucas287

@jeffcatton how's that bluegrass doing??


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## jeffcatton

Hi Lucas ... It has been awesome so far, such a soft grass on the bare feet  ... here is a quick pic. The grass is so think and I am not seeing any of the Bermuda grass coming through. We have only hit 90 a few times so far.


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## lucas287

That looks great! It's definitely a much different look for a Texas lawn! HOC around 3-4"?


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## Kalae_H

jeffcatton said:


> Hi Lucas ... It has been awesome so far, such a soft grass on the bare feet  ... here is a quick pic. The grass is so think and I am not seeing any of the Bermuda grass coming through. We have only hit 90 a few times so far.


beautiful yard! do you think SPF30 will do good down in McAllen? building a home here and the standard is st. Augustine. I don't really care for it. any help would be appreciated!


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## jeffcatton

lucas287 said:


> That looks great! It's definitely a much different look for a Texas lawn! HOC around 3-4"?


Yes, exactly - about 3.5" right now - grows fast still, cutting every 3 days.


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## jeffcatton

Kalae_H said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Lucas ... It has been awesome so far, such a soft grass on the bare feet  ... here is a quick pic. The grass is so think and I am not seeing any of the Bermuda grass coming through. We have only hit 90 a few times so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautiful yard! do you think SPF30 will do good down in McAllen? building a home here and the standard is st. Augustine. I don't really care for it. any help would be appreciated!
Click to expand...

Great question which I don't think I am qualified to give any advice as I am new to growing KBG SPF30 in Fort Worth, TX. With you being as far south into TX as one can get, humidity may not be an issue but the heat would be. Something to ask the manufacture of the seed - http://outsidepride.com (details in prior post)


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## OFlo

Hi Jeff,
Just got my backyard ready for seeding and trying to decide whether to go with Zoysia or the SPF-30. In your opinion, as far as looks go which of the two would you say has a better look?


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## jeffcatton

OFlo said:


> Hi Jeff,
> Just got my backyard ready for seeding and trying to decide whether to go with Zoysia or the SPF-30. In your opinion, as far as looks go which of the two would you say has a better look?


OFlo, I have never studied Zoysia. I went with KBG SPF-30 with a personal preference (soft / cool feel, shade/sun, traffic) and mostly that I needed a grass all year round (does not go dormant in winter). We have just begun to get into 90's now in Fort Worth and both the SUN/SHARED areas are dong well. It would be personal preference you have and also conditions you have vs mine. Do some research on growing different grasses in your zone/area and check out http://outsidepride.com.

Here is a great list for your in Texas -> https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass-seed/State-Lawn-Guide/Texas-Grass-Seed/

Also this one look great -> https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass-seed/fescue-grass-seed/combat-extreme-southern-zone.html

Take a look at the ZONE chart near the bottom.

Good Luck and have fun with it !

Jeff


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## Spammage

@jeffcatton My zoysia is starting to show some drought stress and I will have to irrigate tonight with no rain in the forecast. I'm curious though, with the dryer conditions we've had lately, have you been watering the spf30 and how much/often?


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## lucas287

My kbg is showing some stress! But I'm not giving it any special treatment either. I wonder early Monday morning so it's been almost a week and you can tell. But we did have a couple few days over 90 this week.

I did scalp about a week ago too though, so it might have been bad timing. Once my front is more recovered too then I'll pick up the PGR again!


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## jeffcatton

Spammage said:


> @jeffcatton My zoysia is starting to show some drought stress and I will have to irrigate tonight with no rain in the forecast. I'm curious though, with the dryer conditions we've had lately, have you been watering the spf30 and how much/often?


@Spammage Right now I am staying with watering 2 days a week in our area - we are just getting to the 90+ temp now. I saw a dry patch starting but that was due to 2 bad heads that needed raising as the KBG was much higher than the Bermuda - resolved. We will soon see as the temp rise how *** holds up. Try to get a couple inches of water a week, sometimes, depending on the zone/area, I may water 2 times on my allowed days (very early morning and late) - some are pop-up spray (side) and some are gear (front/back), each require different times + repeat instead of water runoff - try yours.

Hope you find that helpful

Jeff


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## jeffcatton

lucas287 said:


> My kbg is showing some stress! But I'm not giving it any special treatment either. I wonder early Monday morning so it's been almost a week and you can tell. But we did have a couple few days over 90 this week.
> 
> I did scalp about a week ago too though, so it might have been bad timing. Once my front is more recovered too then I'll pick up the PGR again!


@lucas287 I am just curious .... you are scalping KBG? I have my grass at 3.5".


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## lucas287

jeffcatton said:


> lucas287 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My kbg is showing some stress! But I'm not giving it any special treatment either. I wonder early Monday morning so it's been almost a week and you can tell. But we did have a couple few days over 90 this week.
> 
> I did scalp about a week ago too though, so it might have been bad timing. Once my front is more recovered too then I'll pick up the PGR again!
> 
> 
> 
> @lucas287 I am just curious .... you are scalping KBG? I have my grass at 3.5".
Click to expand...

yes sir! Maintaining at .7" HOC right now. Mine is truly an experiment to see if it's viable for Texas guys struggling with shady spots. I honestly don't care if it dies, because I'll just go back to the PRG/MSM wash, rinse, repeat process again. Along my entire fence, about 60 feet, there's about 18" that the bermuda struggles in. Then, under an oak tree, about 500 sq ft. I predict the KBG will die, I'll overseed PRG, then just spray out everything except for my problem areas and call it good.


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## Spammage

jeffcatton said:


> Spammage said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jeffcatton My zoysia is starting to show some drought stress and I will have to irrigate tonight with no rain in the forecast. I'm curious though, with the dryer conditions we've had lately, have you been watering the spf30 and how much/often?
> 
> 
> 
> @Spammage Right now I am staying with watering 2 days a week in our area - we are just getting to the 90+ temp now. I saw a dry patch starting but that was due to 2 bad heads that needed raising as the KBG was much higher than the Bermuda - resolved. We will soon see as the temp rise how *** holds up. Try to get a couple inches of water a week, sometimes, depending on the zone/area, I may water 2 times on my allowed days (very early morning and late) - some are pop-up spray (side) and some are gear (front/back), each require different times + repeat instead of water runoff - try yours.
> 
> Hope you find that helpful
> 
> Jeff
Click to expand...

I've been cycling/soaking for several years myself, and it definitely works best for our soil. I hadn't run my irrigation system so far this year until this morning, but was curious about the differences between the warm season grass and the hybrid bluegrass. It sounds like even at tall cutting heights the hybrid bluegrass will still require significantly more water. I'll definitely be following on the experience you guys have this year and hope the summer doesn't take it out.


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## jeffcatton

lucas287 said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lucas287 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My kbg is showing some stress! But I'm not giving it any special treatment either. I wonder early Monday morning so it's been almost a week and you can tell. But we did have a couple few days over 90 this week.
> 
> I did scalp about a week ago too though, so it might have been bad timing. Once my front is more recovered too then I'll pick up the PGR again!
> 
> 
> 
> @lucas287 I am just curious .... you are scalping KBG? I have my grass at 3.5".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes sir! Maintaining at .7" HOC right now. Mine is truly an experiment to see if it's viable for Texas guys struggling with shady spots. I honestly don't care if it dies, because I'll just go back to the PRG/MSM wash, rinse, repeat process again. Along my entire fence, about 60 feet, there's about 18" that the bermuda struggles in. Then, under an oak tree, about 500 sq ft. I predict the KBG will die, I'll overseed PRG, then just spray out everything except for my problem areas and call it good.
Click to expand...

@lucas287 I will have to experiment with cutting mine shorter, I left it long on purpose as this is my first year spring/summer with KBG, and I do like the cool soft grass.


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## jeffcatton

Spammage said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spammage said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jeffcatton My zoysia is starting to show some drought stress and I will have to irrigate tonight with no rain in the forecast. I'm curious though, with the dryer conditions we've had lately, have you been watering the spf30 and how much/often?
> 
> 
> 
> @Spammage Right now I am staying with watering 2 days a week in our area - we are just getting to the 90+ temp now. I saw a dry patch starting but that was due to 2 bad heads that needed raising as the KBG was much higher than the Bermuda - resolved. We will soon see as the temp rise how *** holds up. Try to get a couple inches of water a week, sometimes, depending on the zone/area, I may water 2 times on my allowed days (very early morning and late) - some are pop-up spray (side) and some are gear (front/back), each require different times + repeat instead of water runoff - try yours.
> 
> Hope you find that helpful
> 
> Jeff
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've been cycling/soaking for several years myself, and it definitely works best for our soil. I hadn't run my irrigation system so far this year until this morning, but was curious about the differences between the warm season grass and the hybrid bluegrass. It sounds like even at tall cutting heights the hybrid bluegrass will still require significantly more water. I'll definitely be following on the experience you guys have this year and hope the summer doesn't take it out.
Click to expand...

@Spammage my soil here is bad ... mostly clay with very little soil. I watered the same when I had Bermuda also, so no difference here. I hope this keeps green as another poster (@lucas287) is also scalping *** which if I can reduce the height and keep the bend / cool / weeds out ... I may try it too. I can always grow it back if I kill it


----------



## lucas287

That's right - it's just grass - it'll grow back


----------



## spartanlawn

I think I let the spf30 get too high because large swaths are definitely appear bent and laying down. How do you correct this? Should I cut again in a couple of days at a lower height? I've been cutting at 3.5.


----------



## jeffcatton

spartanlawn said:


> I think I let the spf30 get too high because large swaths are definitely appear bent and laying down. How do you correct this? Should I cut again in a couple of days at a lower height? I've been cutting at 3.5.


Hi @spartanlawn , I am now cutting at 3", it should not bend down like you are having even at 3.5". Is it getting enough water? You could try a rake and maybe lower the cut also. With me being in Texas I dare not go to lower than 3" until I have experienced a month of 100+ this summer. I may try to reduce to 2.5" - 2.75" this fall.


----------



## spartanlawn

Thank you, that's what I did today. I raked it and cut it again. Looks much better. I think it just got a little bit away from me early. Probably waited too long between early cuts.


----------



## lanc0227

spartanlawn said:


> Thank you, that's what I did today. I raked it and cut it again. Looks much better. I think it just got a little bit away from me early. Probably waited too long between early cuts.


Hi Jeff, I'm over in Lake Highlands and Dallas. Do you mind sharing your process of seeding and the initial steps? It looks great.


----------



## jeffcatton

lanc0227 said:


> spartanlawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you, that's what I did today. I raked it and cut it again. Looks much better. I think it just got a little bit away from me early. Probably waited too long between early cuts.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Jeff, I'm over in Lake Highlands and Dallas. Do you mind sharing your process of seeding and the initial steps? It looks great.
Click to expand...

@lanc0227 Hi Lanc, I did not do too much (started in SEPT 2019); killed all the Bermuda grass - sprayed with killex 2 times over 1-2 weeks (ensure dead), scalp the grass to the dirt (I had 50 bags of Bermuda  ), put down some soil in low spots, seeded (bought 2 @ 50lbs KBG-SPF30), every 3 weeks I put more down, used lots of starter fertilizer, watered multiple times a day - kept moist, had grass coming up in a month (pics tracked here in earlier posts along with seed used). Now it is easy to maintain (cut twice a week), and doing well/strong so far this year - nice an cool and soft. I have just now started using IRONITE and some 47-0-0 fertilizer (lightly) to darken it up. This is a 1st year trial to see how it grows and if it survives the heat in AUG. The 90 heat so far is no issue and appears to be doing very well so far.

Today when cutting I noticed some Bermuda growing in the back yard. I will monitor closely to see how the "turf" war goes with KBG and Bermuda ... I may not have killed all the Bermuda.

If you go ahead and do it (it is only grass) hope you can share your progress here also so we can learn from your experience.

Regards,
Jeff


----------



## Botanicalstig

^I've also been following your progress. The yard looks amazing! I'm thinking of using this in my back yard this fall.

I sent pictures of my yard and described my sun/heat situation to the folks at outside pride. I was hoping to get a recommendation on this or one of their other grasses... But all I got in response was (almost a direct quote) "we don't have time to recommend seeds to customers. It's personal preference."

Cant say their customer service inspires much confidence.

Hoping to learn from your experience. Fingers crossed it does well for you this summer!


----------



## jeffcatton

Botanicalstig said:


> ^I've also been following your progress. The yard looks amazing! I'm thinking of using this in my back yard this fall.
> 
> I sent pictures of my yard and described my sun/heat situation to the folks at outside pride. I was hoping to get a recommendation on this or one of their other grasses... But all I got in response was (almost a direct quote) "we don't have time to recommend seeds to customers. It's personal preference."
> 
> Cant say their customer service inspires much confidence.
> 
> Hoping to learn from your experience. Fingers crossed it does well for you this summer!


@Botanicalstig I am sure they would get a lot of questions regarding seed. Their website has a couple tools to help you but this forum, there are some really experienced people here you have a lot to provide you also. Just ask them on this forum - I read a lot and found people here with special blends they have used in hotter areas.

Godd Luck


----------



## jeffcatton

jeffcatton said:


> lanc0227 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spartanlawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you, that's what I did today. I raked it and cut it again. Looks much better. I think it just got a little bit away from me early. Probably waited too long between early cuts.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Jeff, I'm over in Lake Highlands and Dallas. Do you mind sharing your process of seeding and the initial steps? It looks great.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @lanc0227 Hi Lanc, I did not do too much (started in SEPT 2019); killed all the Bermuda grass - sprayed with killex 2 times over 1-2 weeks (ensure dead), scalp the grass to the dirt (I had 50 bags of Bermuda  ), put down some soil in low spots, seeded (bought 2 @ 50lbs KBG-SPF30), every 3 weeks I put more down, used lots of starter fertilizer, watered multiple times a day - kept moist, had grass coming up in a month (pics tracked here in earlier posts along with seed used). Now it is easy to maintain (cut twice a week), and doing well/strong so far this year - nice an cool and soft. I have just now started using IRONITE and some 47-0-0 fertilizer (lightly) to darken it up. This is a 1st year trial to see how it grows and if it survives the heat in AUG. The 90 heat so far is no issue and appears to be doing very well so far.
> 
> Today when cutting I noticed some Bermuda growing in the back yard. I will monitor closely to see how the "turf" war goes with KBG and Bermuda ... I may not have killed all the Bermuda.
> 
> If you go ahead and do it (it is only grass) hope you can share your progress here also so we can learn from your experience.
> 
> Regards,
> Jeff
Click to expand...

Adding a couple pics just taken this morning.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

Looks great! Not sure what I like more, the grass or the AMG.


----------



## Botanicalstig

jeffcatton said:


> @Botanicalstig I am sure they would get a lot of questions regarding seed. Their website has a couple tools to help you but this forum, there are some really experienced people here you have a lot to provide you also. Just ask them on this forum - I read a lot and found people here with special blends they have used in hotter areas.
> 
> Godd Luck


Oh yes I have learned a lot from reading this forum these past several weeks. I'm in SC in zone 8. My back yard is south facing and receives some shade/bright filtered light during the hottest part of the day. I cleared a natural area over the winter, but there are still some tall pines in the yard and a natural area full of pines & oaks south of the fence line. I planted rye for the time being back in February. I think this could be a perfect solution for a permanent lawn. Would love to use it up front as well but the north facing lawn is free of any shade and is absolutely brutal in the summer!

Please keep us updated on how it handles the heat, it's looking great so far!


----------



## lanc0227

jeffcatton said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lanc0227 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Jeff, I'm over in Lake Highlands and Dallas. Do you mind sharing your process of seeding and the initial steps? It looks great.
> 
> 
> 
> @lanc0227 Hi Lanc, I did not do too much (started in SEPT 2019); killed all the Bermuda grass - sprayed with killex 2 times over 1-2 weeks (ensure dead), scalp the grass to the dirt (I had 50 bags of Bermuda  ), put down some soil in low spots, seeded (bought 2 @ 50lbs KBG-SPF30), every 3 weeks I put more down, used lots of starter fertilizer, watered multiple times a day - kept moist, had grass coming up in a month (pics tracked here in earlier posts along with seed used). Now it is easy to maintain (cut twice a week), and doing well/strong so far this year - nice an cool and soft. I have just now started using IRONITE and some 47-0-0 fertilizer (lightly) to darken it up. This is a 1st year trial to see how it grows and if it survives the heat in AUG. The 90 heat so far is no issue and appears to be doing very well so far.
> 
> Today when cutting I noticed some Bermuda growing in the back yard. I will monitor closely to see how the "turf" war goes with KBG and Bermuda ... I may not have killed all the Bermuda.
> 
> If you go ahead and do it (it is only grass) hope you can share your progress here also so we can learn from your experience.
> 
> Regards,
> Jeff
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Adding a couple pics just taken this morning.
Click to expand...

Jeff, I'm putting my seed down on Monday. I've been prepping the yard. Did yours come up in the heat? I'm nervous I waited too late to start this project.


----------



## gtd

Following... used to live in DFW, now in northern AL. Journal: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=19237


----------



## jeffcatton

lanc0227 said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> @lanc0227 Hi Lanc, I did not do too much (started in SEPT 2019); killed all the Bermuda grass - sprayed with killex 2 times over 1-2 weeks (ensure dead), scalp the grass to the dirt (I had 50 bags of Bermuda  ), put down some soil in low spots, seeded (bought 2 @ 50lbs KBG-SPF30), every 3 weeks I put more down, used lots of starter fertilizer, watered multiple times a day - kept moist, had grass coming up in a month (pics tracked here in earlier posts along with seed used). Now it is easy to maintain (cut twice a week), and doing well/strong so far this year - nice an cool and soft. I have just now started using IRONITE and some 47-0-0 fertilizer (lightly) to darken it up. This is a 1st year trial to see how it grows and if it survives the heat in AUG. The 90 heat so far is no issue and appears to be doing very well so far.
> 
> Today when cutting I noticed some Bermuda growing in the back yard. I will monitor closely to see how the "turf" war goes with KBG and Bermuda ... I may not have killed all the Bermuda.
> 
> If you go ahead and do it (it is only grass) hope you can share your progress here also so we can learn from your experience.
> 
> Regards,
> Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> Adding a couple pics just taken this morning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jeff, I'm putting my seed down on Monday. I've been prepping the yard. Did yours come up in the heat? I'm nervous I waited too late to start this project.
Click to expand...

@lanc0227 I initially did mine in Sept-Oct 2019, and it was 100+ for a week or two when I seeded but cooled off to 80's for a good starting temp. You will need to water several times a day to not let it dry out. It really thickened well over the Texas winter (Nov through Feb). Right now we are daily 98+ and my grass is holding up very well - 1 dry spot due to poor coverage of my irrigation - need to fix.


----------



## spartanlawn

I tried to seed in early July last year in SC. I have irrigation so I was able to keep the ground damp but I only saw nut sedge. It's possible it hung around until the temps got cooler but I dropped five times more seed in early October and I had good germination and grass by late January. I do think this stuff takes 8 weeks to really germ. I put down my last seed in February. I think this stuff is supposed to spread so we'll see how it manages its first summer.


----------



## jeffcatton

spartanlawn said:


> I tried to seed in early July last year in SC. I have irrigation so I was able to keep the ground damp but I only saw nut sedge. It's possible it hung around until the temps got cooler but I dropped five times more seed in early October and I had good germination and grass by late January. I do think this stuff takes 8 weeks to really germ. I put down my last seed in February. I think this stuff is supposed to spread so we'll see how it manages its first summer.


@spartanlawn interesting ... that is good to know your experience with the seed. On page 1 of this thread I uploaded an image 4 weeks into my process - it was green very quickly and I was shocked to have that .... Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:11 pm

Did you use sufficient starter fertilizer? What kind did you use?
Did you water multiple times a day?

Jeff


----------



## spartanlawn

Hi Jeff, I definitely kept the ground damp and I think that caused the weeds. I used a drum to press the seeds into the ground but didn't cover them with anything. I did not use starter fertilizer during any of the seedings. I have put out about three bags of 28-0-0 on my 1/4 acre this spring. I plan on getting a soil test once my county AG office reopens.
--Richard


----------



## lanc0227

jeffcatton said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lanc0227 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Jeff, I'm over in Lake Highlands and Dallas. Do you mind sharing your process of seeding and the initial steps? It looks great.
> 
> 
> 
> @lanc0227 Hi Lanc, I did not do too much (started in SEPT 2019); killed all the Bermuda grass - sprayed with killex 2 times over 1-2 weeks (ensure dead), scalp the grass to the dirt (I had 50 bags of Bermuda  ), put down some soil in low spots, seeded (bought 2 @ 50lbs KBG-SPF30), every 3 weeks I put more down, used lots of starter fertilizer, watered multiple times a day - kept moist, had grass coming up in a month (pics tracked here in earlier posts along with seed used). Now it is easy to maintain (cut twice a week), and doing well/strong so far this year - nice an cool and soft. I have just now started using IRONITE and some 47-0-0 fertilizer (lightly) to darken it up. This is a 1st year trial to see how it grows and if it survives the heat in AUG. The 90 heat so far is no issue and appears to be doing very well so far.
> 
> Today when cutting I noticed some Bermuda growing in the back yard. I will monitor closely to see how the "turf" war goes with KBG and Bermuda ... I may not have killed all the Bermuda.
> 
> If you go ahead and do it (it is only grass) hope you can share your progress here also so we can learn from your experience.
> 
> Regards,
> Jeff
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Adding a couple pics just taken this morning.
Click to expand...

Jeff, how is it holding up in the heat? I am having new irrigation installed then will seed once that is done. Been prepping for a couple of weeks, leveling etc.


----------



## jeffcatton

Hi @lanc0227, it is surprisingly going very well - pics attached.

I do have some Bermuda coming through in spots, sides / shaded areas are all KBG. I must not have killed all the Bermuda. The turf war is 85% KBG and 15% Bermuda right now - will see what the fall/winter looks like.

Keeping it at 3.5" cut ... so far I am loving it - got to cut it today after the storm.

Jeff


----------



## Wfrobinette

jakemauldin said:


> So I'm awaiting some results, I seeded it on 6/15 and the following morning we had 3" of rain from what was supposed to be a light drizzle with no accumulation. I'm hoping it didn't get wiped out. I feel like most of it should still be there. I seeded it along with Princess 77 in my (immediate yard 25k SF) the rest was planted with the SPF 30. The P 77 has started to emerge and make an appearance. I should see some SPF 30 in the next week I would think. I cannot find anything about the actual germination time frame for it. But I assume around two weeks.


----------



## lanc0227

jeffcatton said:


> Hi @lanc0227, it is surprisingly going very well - pics attached.
> 
> I do have some Bermuda coming through in spots, sides / shaded areas are all KBG. I must not have killed all the Bermuda. The turf war is 85% KBG and 15% Bermuda right now - will see what the fall/winter looks like.
> 
> Keeping it at 3.5" cut ... so far I am loving it - got to cut it today after the storm.
> 
> Jeff


That looks amazing!!! I love the stripes and it's such a deep green. I can't wait to start seeding. What type of mower are you using?


----------



## jeffcatton

lanc0227 said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi @lanc0227, it is surprisingly going very well - pics attached.
> 
> I do have some Bermuda coming through in spots, sides / shaded areas are all KBG. I must not have killed all the Bermuda. The turf war is 85% KBG and 15% Bermuda right now - will see what the fall/winter looks like.
> 
> Keeping it at 3.5" cut ... so far I am loving it - got to cut it today after the storm.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That looks amazing!!! I love the stripes and it's such a deep green. I can't wait to start seeding. What type of mower are you using?
Click to expand...

@lanc0227 ... Don't laugh too hard, it works very well ! I packed the large PVC with wet heavy sand


----------



## probasestealer

@jeffcatton lawn looks great. I've used kbg and the hybrids in NC. I maintain a kbg front yard where I have two huge oaks. The common Bermuda overran my kbg last summer in my full sun backyard, i've admitted defeat there.

The first 2 years I had the bermuda controller and the third year it did it's thing..

I never personally found the hybrid kbg to be anymore heat tolerant than Midnight/NuGlade

Best of luck.


----------



## jeffcatton

@probasestealer thanks, I am use to KBG and that is why I went with it - so soft. It appears so far to withstand the heat in Fort Worth. I am experiencing the same with the dominant Bermuda grass ... creeping in and winning the "turf" war. Need to think about how to best control (kill it all) and reseed with KBG.

When you first put down the KBG, did you kill all of the Bermuda? I think I went to fast and did not do a good job killing the Bermuda initially in my back yard, my fault.


----------



## probasestealer

@jeffcatton I killed it, multiple times. I think you can knock it back, but I think the key is pushing the KBG in the fall and mowing high.

I did not irrigate last summer at all and we had little to no rain. The kbg went dormant and some died. Once it rained the common Bermuda took off in August.

I have a thread somewhere with pics, I'll see if I can find it

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=12721&start=20


----------



## jeffcatton

@probasestealer yours looked awesome in the early stages. I started mine OCT 2019 growing and it grew here in Texas all winter ... does not go dormant here, our irrigation really helps to water when we are dry too. I will take your advice and overseed in OCT again. (pic in this thread from when I started)


----------



## probasestealer

@jeffcatton just to clarify the dormancy was from heat/drought.


----------



## jeffcatton

probasestealer said:


> @jeffcatton just to clarify the dormancy was from heat/drought.


ok, got it, thanks


----------



## spartanlawn

@jeffcatton n so I mentioned that I was trying to dispose of the last weeds in a prior post with a selective herbicide, tenacity. A week ago I sprayed the second treatment which is two weeks after the first treatment. My yard has a very patchy appearance now which I find very interesting. I'm not sure why some of the grass appears severely attacked and others parts unaffected. Here are some pictures of the overall lawn and close ups of some of the affected and unaffected plants. My eyes/knowledge are not good enough to distinguish. At first I thought I might have more annual POA than I thought and it was getting killed; however it does not have the expected ligula. Interestingly the part that appears most affected is the same sections I had trouble mowing (limp, long, and thin). These sections have also appeared to grow lighter in shade than other sections. At this point, I think it may be POA triv. widespread disparity makes me think it's not a water or fertilizer issue. I do have soil test pending with Clemson University. If there is anything that sticks out to you in reading this information please let me know. Since it looks like tenacity is hurting it, I plan to put the third application down early, and will do a fourth application, and changing the irrigation schedule to very infrequent allowing summer to do it's thing. My thought is this will send the spf dormant but kill the triv.


----------



## Green

@spartanlawn, to help determine if it's Triv, look for the longer ligule on a bunch of blades. Also, try pulling grass blades apart like you're trying to stretch it slowly. If it strings, it might be Triv. Not 100%, but maybe helpful.

It's almost definitely some sort of Bluegrass from the photos.


----------



## spartanlawn

@Green I looked for the ligule but could find any. I think I know what it looks like because I saw this on some poa a that looks like it's mostly gone now. The main things I noticed about the affected plants verse the unaffected is the affected grew in a much lighter shade of green. It grew very fast in the spring, it seems to grow very stringy and limply, the leaf appears to be half the width of a comparable blade from an area of spf I planted last, lastly it appears to want to run along the top of the ground. When I pulled it out of the ground it seemed I was breaking roots from the middle of the plant and the root of the plant didn't seem to be that deep. In the picture of the affected/unaffected you can see the difference in blade size (ignoring the fescue). This seed came from outsidepride and I see they also SELL a POA t. Not sure about their qc protocols. What do you think about my plan of attack?


----------



## spartanlawn

spartanlawn said:


> I think I let the spf30 get too high because large swaths are definitely appear bent and laying down. How do you correct this? Should I cut again in a couple of days at a lower height? I've been cutting at 3.5.


@Green


----------



## Green

spartanlawn said:


> @Green I looked for the ligule but could find any. I think I know what it looks like because I saw this on some poa a that looks like it's mostly gone now. The main things I noticed about the affected plants verse the unaffected is the affected grew in a much lighter shade of green. It grew very fast in the spring, it seems to grow very stringy and limply, the leaf appears to be half the width of a comparable blade from an area of spf I planted last, lastly it appears to want to run along the top of the ground. When I pulled it out of the ground it seemed I was breaking roots from the middle of the plant and the root of the plant didn't seem to be that deep. In the picture of the affected/unaffected you can see the difference in blade size (ignoring the fescue). This seed came from outsidepride and I see they also SELL a POA t. Not sure about their qc protocols. What do you think about my plan of attack?


You know, after a few years, I still get surprised by what's Triv. There are so many types that look different, and different weather conditions can make it look different. Ligules can be visible or not. Not even all Triv has stolons. I think what happens is, they start out as bunches, and the stems get trampled or pushed down naturally to the soil, and those are then the stolons. If you have grass with horizontal stems, even if they don't tack down, but just get matted, it could be Triv.

In Spring 2018, most of the Triv I saw was a bunch grass with really strong roots.

There's a great thread called "Is this Poa Trivialis, Nutsedge...", something like that. Last year, tons of us had Triv, and posted photos and info there.

I'm stil not sure what hybrid bluegrass looks like. I planted some in Fall of 2018, but I only see what looks like KBG. Maybe they look the same.

I'll try to post some photos of coarse Triv soon. There is also very fine Triv. They look different.

Not sure what the matting is all about. Maybe Triv...

Triv also tends to have a V-shape in Spring, where the blades connect to the main stalk. Yours looks like that.

Is your grass new last Fall? Try the Tenacity and reduced watering, but be careful. Some of the SPF might die if it's in its first year and let it go dormant. But so might the Triv if it's of similar age. If it makes it through this Summer and then another Winter, it's going to take hold be tough to get rid if. It can go dormant in Summer then come back months later.


----------



## jeffcatton

@spartanlawn I am not familiar with Triv ... and I am glad from what Mr. @Green has provided above, sounds like a pesky grass. I hope you can get a solution, I am learning about this for the first time. I got my KBG (100 lbs) from OutsidePride and never saw any of what you are seeing, hope you can get control of it, very unfortunate.

Hybrid KBD when others mention it here is also know as KBG-SPF30 (for hotter climates I believe).


----------



## critterdude311

spartanlawn said:


> @Green I looked for the ligule but could find any. I think I know what it looks like because I saw this on some poa a that looks like it's mostly gone now. The main things I noticed about the affected plants verse the unaffected is the affected grew in a much lighter shade of green. It grew very fast in the spring, it seems to grow very stringy and limply, the leaf appears to be half the width of a comparable blade from an area of spf I planted last, lastly it appears to want to run along the top of the ground. When I pulled it out of the ground it seemed I was breaking roots from the middle of the plant and the root of the plant didn't seem to be that deep. In the picture of the affected/unaffected you can see the difference in blade size (ignoring the fescue). This seed came from outsidepride and I see they also SELL a POA t. Not sure about their qc protocols. What do you think about my plan of attack?


A lot of what you are saying seems to line up with certain varieties of Triv. What I find fascinating about triv (and it makes me question my sanity at times) is that it looks _significantly_ different at different parts of the growing season. Even more confusing - the turf type varieties can have a very different look than the wild / pasture types.

The variety I have been battling is a pasture type and it goes from having quite a large blade width in the spring (similar to K-31 width) to a very thin, almost needle like appearance as the heat picks up. It is an obnoxious yellow-green color in the early Spring, growing faster and taller than all other desirable grasses, often times on some gnarly looking red/purple/green stalks. As the weather warms in mid to late spring, it starts to blend to a darker green, though still noticeably lighter / yellow green compared to the desirable grasses and the vertical growth slows, though it is generally still faster than the desirable grasses. The underside of the leaf blade has a shine/sheen to it, similar to what you might see from perennial rye.

If it is in full sun, and conditions get warm enough, it tends to start laying over and forming a mat of what appears like dying grass. It will refuse to stand up. Eventually, it will go dormant or at least the majority of it will. While it is under heat and water stress, it will also pull out very easily. A simple hand pull or rake will cause it to come out in clumps, in an almost spaghetti like fashion and remain that way until it pops back to life when cooler temps arrive in the fall. It's not dead, unfortunately, just going dormant.

It is a vigorous grower in the early spring and mid fall. It is a prolific seeder (though not as much as annua), but is a perennial, and has viable stolons in the soil for years. Some pieces I have studied contain ligules, others don't. It typically grows gnarly looking stems in the spring, but not all plants do. I had some go to seed last September (?!?) at a cutting height of under 2 inches (which the literature would suggest is not possible, but I've got the pics to prove it). It's the boogeyman and should not be taken lightly. Definitely get an ID from your local extension if possible. The good news for you, if it is triv, is you are in Texas, so there is a chance it won't be able to survive the heat stresses in your area. The cooler the climate, the harder it is to eliminate.

There's been some discussions in the cool season lawns section about how it is getting in / becoming more common. My personal opinion is a lot of the seed lots are contaminated, and it's entering in as 'other crop'. Even the certified seed bags with 0.00% weed and 0.00% other crop are still suspect to me because the analysis is done on a fraction of the overall batch, so those analysis numbers should be taken with a grain of salt. I don't think it is a coincidence so many people who have overseeded or done fresh lawns are starting to see this pop up in renos and so forth. If I had to do it over again, I would go for sod from a highly rated local sod farm where I can see the inventory. Just my $0.02. Good luck!


----------



## lanc0227

Just put down our seed tonight. Can't wait!


----------



## jeffcatton

lanc0227 said:


> Just put down our seed tonight. Can't wait!


 :thumbup: best of luck! now the hard part, time and patients for a couple weeks! _(hope you also used started fertilizer)_


----------



## citizensauto

lanc0227 said:


> Just put down our seed tonight. Can't wait!


Best of luck...your seed might struggle with the high temps. I did a test plot in my backyard a month ago and it came up but struggled eventually died off. I plan on seeding in fall again and get it to be well established before next summer.

Keep us posted!


----------



## lanc0227

Starting to get some grass. Is this SPF 30 or something else? Hard for me to tell just yet.


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## spartanlawn

@lanc0227 It looks too large to me, if memory serves, it was real thin single blades, kind of needle like, that came up first. Im not sure if it grows different with fertilizer. If you have any seeds left over at all, you may want to put them in a pot and cover them with plastic wrap to germ them real fast to know what you're looking for. Keeping the ground moist was an invitation for nearly every weed to move in. If I redo my backyard, I'll probably treat with a pre-emergent like tenacity. It may not be too late if you wanted to put that down too but check the label.


----------



## lucas287

jeffcatton said:


> @probasestealer thanks, I am use to KBG and that is why I went with it - so soft. It appears so far to withstand the heat in Fort Worth. I am experiencing the same with the dominant Bermuda grass ... creeping in and winning the "turf" war. Need to think about how to best control (kill it all) and reseed with KBG.
> 
> Just to properly set your expectations, you will likely never kill the bermuda. If it was sodded, yeah you'll never get rid of it. Especially in Texas and especially when your neighbors have it. Their rhizomes will always be creeping in your lawn unless you put a 2 foot deep metal edging along the property line.
> 
> So far, my Bluemuda stand in the backyard is doing good and looking good. They actually blend pretty decently. But I'd never try to completely kill off the bermuda. It'd be wasted efforts!


----------



## jeffcatton

@lanc0227 that growth is way to fast for KBG.

It grows almost at a uniform rate and small at first (very thin sprouts) - see pic enlarged of mine about 3-4 weeks later.


----------



## lanc0227

Thanks. My front yard has a ton of sprouts of whatever that stuff is. Wondering if I should pick it out or just let it be? No real sprouts on the side or back. One week in. Still a lot of dirt. &#128514;


----------



## lanc0227

Something is growing.


----------



## probasestealer

lanc0227 said:


> Something is growing.


The small seedlings look like KBG. Rough time of year too seed..


----------



## lanc0227

probasestealer said:


> lanc0227 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something is growing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The small seedlings look like KBG. Rough time of year too seed..
Click to expand...

I blame it on Covid cabin fever. :lol:


----------



## probasestealer

@lanc0227 I just realized you're in Dallas. I'm in NC and once started a KBG Reno 8/4, you will need to try and syringe those seedling with water probably every hour during the day.


----------



## citizensauto

lanc0227 said:


> Something is growing.


 Yes, that looks exactly as what i had come up on my test patch, before things went down hill . I can't wait for fall and give it a go again.


----------



## lanc0227




----------



## spartanlawn

@Green @jeffcatton @critterdude311 
I just got a call from Clemson. I do have Poa Triv. I actually collected specimens for them to examine. It appears the Poa Triv has definitely been hit the hardest with this second treatment of Tenacity. From what I have read, Tenacity seems to knock it back but it will come roaring back once growing conditions improve. I'm mostly concerned that Poa Triv will try to out compete the SPF 30. There are a couple of paths forward I think, but curious if there is something else you think or a path you think would be more effective than the others.

I think I need to eliminate the Poa Triv, because it will be difficult to manage other weeds with its propensity to be impacted, eventually it could take over and it is not nearly as attractive as the SPF 30, much lighter shade, much limper plant.

Currently, I suspect 30-40% of my yard has this stuff present. Currently, it looks mostly patchy but who knows.

A) Fertilize and irrigate to sprout any remaining triv seed to kill. I do not think Tenacity is rated as a pre-emergent on Poa Triv
B) A + Roundup putting out the max dosage now through August, whole lawn, seed in September
C) A + Roundup putting out the max dosage spread out now through February, whole lawn, seed in March
D) A + B but only the visible patches
E) A + C but only the visible patches
F) A + Tenacity

I'm leaning toward B or C. What are your thoughts?

Some thoughts shared by the Professor:
--Eliminating PT through Roundup may be most successful if it hasn't been there long. I think it came from contaminated seed and thus has been established less than a year.
--Replanting in the fall is better than spring because stronger roots are established prior to the following summer. Note, my pictures of the unaffected areas are where I planted in February and they still look really good right now. So I'm not as concerned (granted we had a very cool spring and early summer this year in SC).
--Continuing to treat with Tenacity and maintaining at least 3.5 could give the SPF 30 a leg up and even the playing field
--Poa Triv has hardy enough rhizomes it can usually sustain itself in the upstate SC climate.

Lastly, I thought that if I killed everything, I should still probably rake as much of the dead stuff out, versus letting it serve as a mulch for the new seed. Assuming Poa Triv is as nasty as it is, no reason to allow parts that are fully dead get a chance to come back.

Has anyone purchased seed from somewhere other than Outsidepride.com? Once you think you were burned....


----------



## critterdude311

spartanlawn said:


> @Green @jeffcatton @critterdude311
> I just got a call from Clemson. I do have Poa Triv. I actually collected specimens for them to examine. It appears the Poa Triv has definitely been hit the hardest with this second treatment of Tenacity. From what I have read, Tenacity seems to knock it back but it will come roaring back once growing conditions improve. I'm mostly concerned that Poa Triv will try to out compete the SPF 30. There are a couple of paths forward I think, but curious if there is something else you think or a path you think would be more effective than the others.
> 
> I think I need to eliminate the Poa Triv, because it will be difficult to manage other weeds with its propensity to be impacted, eventually it could take over and it is not nearly as attractive as the SPF 30, much lighter shade, much limper plant.
> 
> Currently, I suspect 30-40% of my yard has this stuff present. Currently, it looks mostly patchy but who knows.
> 
> A) Fertilize and irrigate to sprout any remaining triv seed to kill. I do not think Tenacity is rated as a pre-emergent on Poa Triv
> B) A + Roundup putting out the max dosage now through August, whole lawn, seed in September
> C) A + Roundup putting out the max dosage spread out now through February, whole lawn, seed in March
> D) A + B but only the visible patches
> E) A + C but only the visible patches
> F) A + Tenacity
> 
> I'm leaning toward B or C. What are your thoughts?
> 
> Some thoughts shared by the Professor:
> --Eliminating PT through Roundup may be most successful if it hasn't been there long. I think it came from contaminated seed and thus has been established less than a year.
> --Replanting in the fall is better than spring because stronger roots are established prior to the following summer. Note, my pictures of the unaffected areas are where I planted in February and they still look really good right now. So I'm not as concerned (granted we had a very cool spring and early summer this year in SC).
> --Continuing to treat with Tenacity and maintaining at least 3.5 could give the SPF 30 a leg up and even the playing field
> --Poa Triv has hardy enough rhizomes it can usually sustain itself in the upstate SC climate.
> 
> Lastly, I thought that if I killed everything, I should still probably rake as much of the dead stuff out, versus letting it serve as a mulch for the new seed. Assuming Poa Triv is as nasty as it is, no reason to allow parts that are fully dead get a chance to come back.
> 
> Has anyone purchased seed from somewhere other than Outsidepride.com? Once you think you were burned....


I think you're likely to get a lot of different opinions on this. My $0.02: it will be extremely difficult to eliminate it right now because a certain amount of it is dormant. You have to wait for it to be actively growing, typically early spring is the best time to nuke it with Glyph...

The fun doesn't stop there though, because depending on how established it is, it leaves seeds and stolons viable in the soil, the glyph nukes the active growing plants but will not kill the seed and stolons which are laying in the soil. My opinion on removal has changed over the years, but if it is at all feasible, and you want to 100% (or close to 100% remove it) I would sod cut out all infected areas and then lay sod. Reason being is, the dormant viable seed bank an stolons are likely to sprout with the new seed you put down in the fall because the wet and cooler conditions are its preferred growing climate. I don't want to get you paranoid, I just know how serious an infestation is to deal with once it is established. With you being in the south, another option might be to go with a warm season grass and then selectively removing the cool season grasses. Eliminating triv can require outside the box thinking, depending on how established it is.


----------



## jeffcatton

lanc0227 said:


> @lanc0227 VERY NICE ! I am growing also in a couple patches I am redoing. This is what it looks like! Just keep it watered ... hardly little guys they are.
> 
> Jeff


----------



## jeffcatton

critterdude311 said:


> @critterdude311 that is so unfortunate. I was trying to understand if that was before and you killed it (or thought it was all killed off) before seeding with KBG? I did not have any of that in 2 50lbs bags.
> 
> Jeff


----------



## Green

@spartanlawn, here are my thoughts.

I don't think option A will work. It's unlikely to germinate more in the heat right now. Just too hot. I think you'll just cause fungus issues form overwatering.

I like option E to some degree. But I would not use max rate. Instead, I would do multiple apps of glyphosate until it goes dead brown, and even then hit it with another one after that. Usually that takes 3 apps and some patience. I'd use a 41% glyphosate and mix at the rate that's recommended for killing grass, usually 2.5-3 oz per gallon with a non-ionic surfactant. Also, Ammonium Sulfate added to the water. Suburban Jungle Life recommended I use 2.5oz of that. And 0.5oz NIS.

Some studies have shown the kill rate is not as good this time of year. But can you really afford to wait until next March? The stuff will spread again, starting probably sometime during October (September for me up here). It'll spread all Winter and Spring is nothing if done.

If it's still alive now, I don't see the harm in hitting those patches now. Just make sure you have plenty of clean SPF seed to reseed with, as this is going to take a long time to hit all the patches. I'd do the ones that are active now, now. I have some Triv that's still going, without irrigation at the moment. Last year, it lived through 6 weeks of highs around 90F and a selective herbicide regimen (Certainty at 0.25oz/Acre 3 times). I think it was because I kept the area at a high HOC (3.75 in). The Triv shriveled but stayed green and close to the soil, under the good grass all Summer. This year, I lowered it to closer to 3 in so I'm actually cutting the Triv when I mow, and am repeating the selective herbcides with some timing and rate changes.


----------



## lanc0227

jeffcatton said:


> lanc0227 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @lanc0227 VERY NICE ! I am growing also in a couple patches I am redoing. This is what it looks like! Just keep it watered ... hardly little guys they are.
> 
> Jeff
Click to expand...


----------



## L337pcnoob

I live in rowlett (right outside of Dallas Texas) and I have just started my renovation project. Trying to obtain more information on SPF-30 brought me here. I'm going to be using it in my Reno and was wondering how are your seedlings doing in this heat? I too have covid cabin fever and itching to get started. I have a full irrigation system but I'm worried that the heat will just kill the seedlings resulting in a waste. Anyways, I'm just following along and interested in how things are holding up for you since I'm in the same area.


----------



## jeffcatton

L337pcnoob said:


> I live in rowlett (right outside of Dallas Texas) and I have just started my renovation project. Trying to obtain more information on SPF-30 brought me here. I'm going to be using it in my Reno and was wondering how are your seedlings doing in this heat? I too have covid cabin fever and itching to get started. I have a full irrigation system but I'm worried that the heat will just kill the seedlings resulting in a waste. Anyways, I'm just following along and interested in how things are holding up for you since I'm in the same area.


Hi @L337pcnoob, I did some patch seeding and in the SUN areas it is a little slower but starting to show growth after 13 days, in the SHADED areas it showed growth around the 10-11th day. Need to keep watering !4 times a day, heavier in the sun areas than the shaded. Good Luck and would be great if you can also share your experience / progression if you go with KBG SPF-30. I like to also learn from others on here.

Jeff


----------



## L337pcnoob

Definitely,

I just finished with the glysophate application a couple of days ago. This used to be st Augustine with Bermuda and centipede patches everywhere. (I inherited a very neglected front and rear yard).
I'm going to be attempting 100% spf 30 no mix. I'll be power raking and aerating next.


----------



## jeffcatton

L337pcnoob said:


> Definitely,
> 
> I just finished with the glysophate application a couple of days ago. This used to be st Augustine with Bermuda and centipede patches everywhere. (I inherited a very neglected front and rear yard).
> I'm going to be attempting 100% spf 30 no mix. I'll be power raking and aerating next.
> 
> @L337pcnoob be sure to do it a couple times as you will not catch all the prior growth in one application - do this for a couple weeks (what for signs of other growth) and rest for 1 week before seeding. You will still need to cut and bag to the lowest setting for your mower to remove all the dead grass before applying the next application of roundup.


----------



## L337pcnoob

lanc0227 said:


> probasestealer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lanc0227 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something is growing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The small seedlings look like KBG. Rough time of year too seed..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I blame it on Covid cabin fever. :lol:
Click to expand...

Any updates on how your seedlings holding up in Dallas?


----------



## jeffcatton

@L337pcnoob Here is a quick pic just taken - 16 days into when I planted it - kill off a section and reseeded the area about 1 week after killing what was there. Then I did another area but it has 24/7 hot sun  and it is just starting to sprout up - need to keep it watered more in the sunny areas this time of year.

Hope that helps. Hope @lanc0227 can share his success.


----------



## L337pcnoob

jeffcatton said:


> @L337pcnoob Here is a quick pic just taken - 16 days into when I planted it - kill off a section and reseeded the area about 1 week after killing what was there. Then I did another area but it has 24/7 hot sun  and it is just starting to sprout up - need to keep it watered more in the sunny areas this time of year.
> 
> Hope that helps. Hope @lanc0227 can share his success.


That's looking pretty good for considering how hot it is out. I just finished second application of glysophate and then I'm going to power rake/dethatcher (I'll see how well the dethatcher does first) then aerate. I'm hoping to get planted mid august. It will still be upper 90s out. I'll water 3-4 times a day if possible I just don't want to waste seed. If all else fails, I'm guessing I can always just lay more seed later in the fall. It looks like the spf is performing pretty well in this heat.


----------



## jeffcatton

L337pcnoob said:


> That's looking pretty good for considering how hot it is out. I just finished second application of glysophate and then I'm going to power rake/dethatcher (I'll see how well the dethatcher does first) then aerate. I'm hoping to get planted mid august. It will still be upper 90s out. I'll water 3-4 times a day if possible I just don't want to waste seed. If all else fails, I'm guessing I can always just lay more seed later in the fall. It looks like the spf is performing pretty well in this heat.


Keeping it moist enough, let it dry up at times, is key I have found with this seed (not saturated 24/7)
Exactly! I will over seed again in late SEPT/OCT.


----------



## L337pcnoob

jeffcatton said:


> L337pcnoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's looking pretty good for considering how hot it is out. I just finished second application of glysophate and then I'm going to power rake/dethatcher (I'll see how well the dethatcher does first) then aerate. I'm hoping to get planted mid august. It will still be upper 90s out. I'll water 3-4 times a day if possible I just don't want to waste seed. If all else fails, I'm guessing I can always just lay more seed later in the fall. It looks like the spf is performing pretty well in this heat.
> 
> 
> 
> Keeping it moist enough, let it dry up at times, is key I have found with this seed (not saturated 24/7)
> Exactly! I will over seed again in late SEPT/OCT.
Click to expand...

I think this lawn renovation keeps me up at night as im always trying to gather information....
What would be your thoughts on moving forward with power raking, aerating and leveling weeks prior to seeding? I would probably run the sprinklers daily to keep the new soil relatively damp, not saturated. I have more than enough dirt to apply more at time of seeding? I figure it would be easier to rent the equipment and knock it out over the weekend, than to wait a couple of weeks. I'm itching to lay seed lol although im aware of the potential waste of money. I do plan to hit it with tenacity during "summer seeding" to prevent weeds but i think by the time late sept october comes around, it will be safe to over seed again, if necessary.


----------



## jeffcatton

L337pcnoob said:


> I think this lawn renovation keeps me up at night as im always trying to gather information....
> What would be your thoughts on moving forward with power raking, aerating and leveling weeks prior to seeding? I would probably run the sprinklers daily to keep the new soil relatively damp, not saturated. I have more than enough dirt to apply more at time of seeding? I figure it would be easier to rent the equipment and knock it out over the weekend, than to wait a couple of weeks. I'm itching to lay seed lol although im aware of the potential waste of money. I do plan to hit it with tenacity during "summer seeding" to prevent weeds but i think by the time late sept october comes around, it will be safe to over seed again, if necessary.


@L337pcnoob the same for me when I started this process ... could not go fast enough. It does take longer in the higher heat to grow KBG and my first attempt I panicked and over seeded 2 weeks after just in case the first seeding died on me - it was slow to show sprouts. Result was, extra thick grass (plush). I did put down some dirt, not the complete yard, and my seed went down about 1-2 weeks after i killed the whole yard. I did not aerate my yard, I should have taken the time to do that too. After putting down the seed and starter fertilizer on the dirt, I did take a leaf rake and lightly go over the seed to mix it with the dirt - helps to keep it in place.

My grass seed that I have growing now, I water morning 7AM, afternoon 1PM, and around 8PM (not saturated on each watering).

Good Luck !


----------



## L337pcnoob

Going to aerate early tomorrow morning and order seed today. Prepped with a dethatcher but switch to a power rake to get the job done faster. Thanks for your insight. How long do you water your zones?


----------



## L337pcnoob

Power raked, aerated, leveled and rolled.


----------



## Captquin

Glad I found this thread! I'm in southeast Virginia and generally hang out on the cool season board.

I did a reno last year and tried KBG for the first time. Used Turf Blue HGT which is marketed as a KBG for the transition zone. Overall I like it. Fast germination and aggressive spreading. Parts of it died off this summer. Not quite sure if it was drought or fungus, but in any case I have some thin spots.

Also plan on over seeding the front yard that is currently TTTF. Wondering whether to go back with the Turf Blue or try the SPF-30....or a blend of both.

Appreciate your perspective and wanted to subscribe to the thread

@jeffcatton how is your lawn holding up and how thirsty is it?


----------



## jeffcatton

Captquin said:


> Glad I found this thread! I'm in southeast Virginia and generally hang out on the cool season board.
> 
> I did a reno last year and tried KBG for the first time. Used Turf Blue HGT which is marketed as a KBG for the transition zone. Overall I like it. Fast germination and aggressive spreading. Parts of it died off this summer. Not quite sure if it was drought or fungus, but in any case I have some thin spots.
> 
> Also plan on over seeding the front yard that is currently TTTF. Wondering whether to go back with the Turf Blue or try the SPF-30....or a blend of both.
> 
> Appreciate your perspective and wanted to subscribe to the thread
> 
> @jeffcatton how is your lawn holding up and how thirsty is it?


@Captquin the *** PSF-30 grass is doing very well and I water only 2 times a week. Just ran out and took a quick pic attached here. I got some Bermuda coming through from the neighbor's yards and some in spots where I did not do a good job killing all prior grass - my fault. Overall, very happy with the success during the heat - thick and green. I am even growing some new grass seed in spots where I wanted to redo (takes 2-3 weeks to germinate). This really works well also in the shaded areas (less than 3-4 hours of sun) - side of house (green and thick).

Mine is blending with Bermuda unfortunately, I would really like to find something that will kill Bermuda grass (like a fertilizer or something) and not harm my KBG


----------



## lanc0227

L337pcnoob said:


> lanc0227 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> probasestealer said:
> 
> 
> 
> The small seedlings look like KBG. Rough time of year too seed..
> 
> 
> 
> I blame it on Covid cabin fever. :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any updates on how your seedlings holding up in Dallas?
Click to expand...

I ended up waving the white flag. I got good germination in the front yard but the back has no shade. I was spending an arm and a leg on just keeping the dirt moist. Bc of that, nutsedge and spurge took over the back yard and it looked absolutely terrible.


----------



## Captquin

@jeffcatton Fantastic my man. My front yard is a "northern mix." All kind of stuff in there. May try to scalp it and over seed with the Turf Blue and HKBG. The Turf Blue germinates in a week. Concerned the SPF-30 may get crowded out.


----------



## jeffcatton

Captquin said:


> @jeffcatton Fantastic my man. My front yard is a "northern mix." All kind of stuff in there. May try to scalp it and over seed with the Turf Blue and HKBG. The Turf Blue germinates in a week. Concerned the SPF-30 may get crowded out.


@Captquin I just did some quick reading on Turf Blue, looks promising also as an alternative for Bermuda, thanks for sharing. The blade appears thicker but tends to be a fast grower and dominate in the yard. Is it a stiff or soft grass type? Would be interesting to see if it goes dormant in Dallas area as we really do not freeze often - with HKBG it grows all year here and stay green - yes a love to cut 365 days a year.

Please keep us updated on your success / progress ... I would really like to know more about this "northern mix" you are planning to use.

For now, I have the Bermuda trying to creep into my HKBG so over the next few seasons I am going to give a try with "Hi-Yield Triclopyr Ester Herbicide Concentrate" to control the Bermuda in a HKBG yard - time will tell if it works 

Jeff


----------



## citizensauto

lanc0227 said:


> I ended up waving the white flag. I got good germination in the front yard but the back has no shade. I was spending an arm and a leg on just keeping the dirt moist. Bc of that, nutsedge and spurge took over the back yard and it looked absolutely terrible.


That stinks, my test plot did the same thing came up and checked out!(no shade in my backyard) i did have nutsedge take over luckily no spurge. I think seeding KBG during summer especially in Texas isn't a good idea.

I have read elsewhere that it might pop up again when temps cool off so maybe it's not all a lost cause.


----------



## billmajure

I suggest you try *Sargento Tenacity herbicide* to kill Bermuda grass in a Kentucky Bluegrass lawn without harming the Bluegrass. I am currently using it to kill stray bermuda grass from my lawn without harming my original but spotty Centipede turf.

Once I've killed off the weeds and bermuda grass, I will be trying to establish Thermal Blue bluegrass in my yard. I'm in a hot climate like you, and your experience has been very informative and helpful. Thank you for that.



jeffcatton said:


> @Captquin the *** PSF-30 grass is doing very well and I water only 2 times a week. Just ran out and took a quick pic attached here. I got some Bermuda coming through from the neighbor's yards and some in spots where I did not do a good job killing all prior grass - my fault. Overall, very happy with the success during the heat - thick and green. I am even growing some new grass seed in spots where I wanted to redo (takes 2-3 weeks to germinate). This really works well also in the shaded areas (less than 3-4 hours of sun) - side of house (green and thick).
> 
> Mine is blending with Bermuda unfortunately, I would really like to find something that will kill Bermuda grass (like a fertilizer or something) and not harm my KBG


----------



## lanc0227

citizensauto said:


> lanc0227 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I ended up waving the white flag. I got good germination in the front yard but the back has no shade. I was spending an arm and a leg on just keeping the dirt moist. Bc of that, nutsedge and spurge took over the back yard and it looked absolutely terrible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That stinks, my test plot did the same thing came up and checked out!(no shade in my backyard) i did have nutsedge take over luckily no spurge. I think seeding KBG during summer especially in Texas isn't a good idea.
> 
> I have read elsewhere that it might pop up again when temps cool off so maybe it's not all a lost cause.
Click to expand...

I agree. Jeff's looks fantastic. I should of waited but not much I can do about it now. I was really looking forward to the KBG.


----------



## Captquin

@jeffcatton "northern mix" is just a nice way of saying a hodgepodge of cool season grasses.


----------



## L337pcnoob

lanc0227 said:


> L337pcnoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lanc0227 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I blame it on Covid cabin fever. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Any updates on how your seedlings holding up in Dallas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I ended up waving the white flag. I got good germination in the front yard but the back has no shade. I was spending an arm and a leg on just keeping the dirt moist. Bc of that, nutsedge and spurge took over the back yard and it looked absolutely terrible.
Click to expand...

Aww man sorry to hear, like others have said it may sprout once conditions are met. I think I'll hold off until late August to seed if temperatures allow, until then I guess I'll keep watering my bare soil and kill off anything that grows up until seed.


----------



## jeffcatton

Captquin said:


> @jeffcatton "northern mix" is just a nice way of saying a hodgepodge of cool season grasses.


:lol: :lol:


----------



## L337pcnoob

So I decided to try to take advantage of the cool front here in Texas (87 degrees and 69 at night) and for testing/research purposes I went ahead and planted. I have enough seed left over to reseed property if needed so why not...

I sprayed tenacity over entire front and back before seed. Then lightly raked and rolled seed in. Then spread peat moss. Roughly 4300 sq ft total, 14 lbs of seed.

Front yard is shaded most of the day until about 3-3-4pm back yard is partially shaded with some areas full blast. Watering 9am,2pm, 6pm 15 minutes per zone everyday. With peat moss on top, hopefully it will stay moist and germinate without issues. Welp here goes nothing... and a high water bill lol


----------



## lanc0227

I have a 25 lb bag for sale if anyone is interested It is has not been opened: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=21465.


----------



## lanc0227

L337pcnoob said:


> So I decided to try to take advantage of the cool front here in Texas (87 degrees and 69 at night) and for testing/research purposes I went ahead and planted. I have enough seed left over to reseed property if needed so why not...
> 
> I sprayed tenacity over entire front and back before seed. Then lightly raked and rolled seed in. Then spread peat moss. Roughly 4300 sq ft total, 14 lbs of seed.
> 
> Front yard is shaded most of the day until about 3-3-4pm back yard is partially shaded with some areas full blast. Watering 9am,2pm, 6pm 15 minutes per zone everyday. With peat moss on top, hopefully it will stay moist and germinate without issues. Welp here goes nothing... and a high water bill lol


The shade made a world of difference for our yard. Our front was actually coming a long nicely. Bad thing is over 2/3 of our yard is not shaded and it cooked. I can't wait to watch your progress. The leveling looks great. And the water bill part cracks me up. I have Dallas city water on auto pay and I'm shocked my bank didn't call for fraud alert when my bill was about 5x its normal amount. Haha.


----------



## spartanlawn

I put out probably 5 lbs of seed in my front yard to start to fill in holes created by killing of various weeds but especially POA trivialis. I am watering every hour for 5 min 7am-9pm (I pump from a lake). Put the seed down 7/26. Nothing sprouted yet. I started demoing the back yard last weekend and put down the second dose of round up just now. I plan on putting seed down next weekend or the following weekend. I am expecting something to come up in the front yard this week and I'll hit it with some fertilizer.


----------



## thompwa

Contemplating SPF-30 in my back lawn. I'm in N.Alabama (Zone 7a/b). I currently have a TTTF back lawn due to it being heavily shaded and non irrigated. I do have a few small areas that get more sun than others, but I would say it's 75% or more shaded. What sun i do get is afternoon sun. Soil is faily heavy clay content with sandy top layer. I plan to power rake the entire thing and seed here in a few weeks once the temps cool down a little.

I have a few moveable irrigation heads that I can run from a hose and keep the seed moist long enough to germinate. but i have no plans to run in ground irrigation back there.

So the million dollar question - Do you guys think SPF-30 is a decent candidate for my lawn?


----------



## spartanlawn

Hey @thompwa . I'm still experimenting. This summer was my test to see if it could withstand piedmont SC temps. I decided it could (with normal irrigation). I have a section that has a misdirected head. It's about 15deg short of full coverage. I didn't correct it, curious as to how that section would fair. It's pretty brown. The legacy fescue looks to be holding on. SPF may come back this fall. My hope would be that because this is a rhizome based grass, it can withstand more stress the more established it becomes, but year one is probably thumbs down for me without irrigation if you have similar expectations for temps and rain. My stand is about 6-10 mos old as I had two plantings, one in October, one in February.


----------



## L337pcnoob

I would definitely recommend tenacity at seed. My back yard was infested with crab grass, didn't help that my first renovation failed due to tilling the soil, but it will help eliminate most weeds that try to come in at seed.


----------



## Captquin

@spartanlawn Thanks for the update. I had similar situation with the Turf Blue HGT this summer. Believe I started too late with irrigation and then not enough. Looks like it's finally coming back now.

Thought about overseeding the HGT with SPF 30, but it doesn't sound like the SPF would've fared any better. I'll probably stay with HGT for uniformity. Maybe get a small bag of SPF to test in a few pots.

Good thread....


----------



## jeffcatton

Just catching up on the post, such a shame it did not work out for you guys. Being my first year, I am keeping my options open into these other grasses too but I really want the year round green look. The KBG gives me three key things; stands tall (fully green blade), very soft grass on the feet and stays green all year round without using a winter rye. If I can control the Bermuda to stay out over the next few seasons I will be very grateful.

Thanks for sharing your experience, results and what your solutions are .... good for everyone to know before starting their yard.


----------



## L337pcnoob

We have germination on day 7. Little sprouts popping up everywhere. More are present in the shaded areas than the full sun areas but 7 days for this seed I'm assuming is pretty fast considering cultivator stayed 14-28 days.


----------



## Captquin

NICE!!!


----------



## jeffcatton

That is great news, the start of something beautiful! That was quick too, nice. Congrats @L337pcnoob !


----------



## NWGALawn706

thompwa said:


> Contemplating SPF-30 in my back lawn. I'm in N.Alabama (Zone 7a/b). I currently have a TTTF back lawn due to it being heavily shaded and non irrigated. I do have a few small areas that get more sun than others, but I would say it's 75% or more shaded. What sun i do get is afternoon sun. Soil is faily heavy clay content with sandy top layer. I plan to power rake the entire thing and seed here in a few weeks once the temps cool down a little.
> 
> I have a few moveable irrigation heads that I can run from a hose and keep the seed moist long enough to germinate. but i have no plans to run in ground irrigation back there.
> 
> So the million dollar question - Do you guys think SPF-30 is a decent candidate for my lawn?


*
North Ga here..... I'm in the same situation as you. Reading responses now and following


----------



## thompwa

NWGALawn706 said:


> thompwa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Contemplating SPF-30 in my back lawn. I'm in N.Alabama (Zone 7a/b). I currently have a TTTF back lawn due to it being heavily shaded and non irrigated. I do have a few small areas that get more sun than others, but I would say it's 75% or more shaded. What sun i do get is afternoon sun. Soil is faily heavy clay content with sandy top layer. I plan to power rake the entire thing and seed here in a few weeks once the temps cool down a little.
> 
> I have a few moveable irrigation heads that I can run from a hose and keep the seed moist long enough to germinate. but i have no plans to run in ground irrigation back there.
> 
> So the million dollar question - Do you guys think SPF-30 is a decent candidate for my lawn?
> 
> 
> 
> *
> North Ga here..... I'm in the same situation as you. Reading responses now and following
Click to expand...

Let me know what your conclusions are. I'm moving forward like I have a plan, but truth be told I'm just hoping I decide by the time I get everything killed off. Haha


----------



## spartanlawn

Just checking in. I'm at day 14 of patch seed in the front yard. Probably about 25% germination. Yesterday I put out 40lbs of 34-0-0 over 7k sqft. Got another bag for in a couple of weeks. Temps have kept to low 90s.

I tell you what though. You want a tough grass that is impossible to kill and needs zero water-- try mondo grass. Three applications of round up, still green. Everything else around it very dead. Round up is a selective herbicide for this stuff apparently!


----------



## Easyluck

spartanlawn said:


> Yesterday I put out 40lbs of 34-0-0 over 7k sqft.


1.94 lbs of N per M is a lot at once! Typo or Is this slow release?


----------



## jeffcatton

@thompwa With the temp range you have it is cooler than our Dallas/FW area in Texas. You may actually fair better than us as our temps are creeping now to the 100's. We have been in the 90's and will go back to that in a week, I believe your zone gets that too but a little cooler, correct?

https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/

Good luck with your choice.


----------



## spartanlawn

@jeffcatton I can't have nothun nice! The bag suggested 20lbs per 1000 SQ ft so I thought I was a little light! I guess we'll see what happens.


----------



## jeffcatton

jeffcatton said:


> Just catching up on the post, such a shame it did not work out for you guys. Being my first year, I am keeping my options open into these other grasses too but I really want the year round green look. The KBG gives me three key things; stands tall (fully green blade), very soft grass on the feet and stays green all year round without using a winter rye. If I can control the Bermuda to stay out over the next few seasons I will be very grateful.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your experience, results and what your solutions are .... good for everyone to know before starting their yard.


Well I found a solution to killing the horrible invasive Bermuda in my KBG, Hi-Yield Triclopyr Ester (concentrate 1 TBSP per gallon water - I hand sprayed it using a 2 gallon sprayer)

Just put it on during growing season. I will see the response over the next 2-3 weeks and then put down again every 4 weeks this summer. Hopefully this will control it and keep it out of our KBG.


----------



## jeffcatton

Easyluck said:


> spartanlawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday I put out 40lbs of 34-0-0 over 7k sqft.
> 
> 
> 
> 1.94 lbs of N per M is a lot at once! Typo or Is this slow release?
Click to expand...

@spartanlawn I mix 46-0-0 and starter fertilizer to do my yard.

Pic attached ... use setting of 2-3 on spreader as the granules are very fine.


----------



## spartanlawn

@jeffcatton I might have to try that if it doesnt go well. Thank you


----------



## Captquin

Ordered some SPF-30 today along with some Turf Blue HGT. Plan to blend together for an overseed into TTTF and to fill in some bare spots. Also plan to do some test pots for color comparison and drought & heat tolerance.


----------



## L337pcnoob

13 day update and boy can you say heat wave... highs around here have been 104 for the last few days with 2 more days of the same to go. So far the spf-30 seedlings have been hanging in there and still growing, more so in the shaded areas. The full sun areas, despite the heat have been slow but still germinating and growing slowly. The red zone in my backyard represent the area that is getting blasted, but seedlings are still popping up. My front yard has about 85 percent coverage as far as germination goes since it is partially shaded during the day. Here are a few pics and flash light test. Watering 4 times a day , 5 minutes a zone 11am,2pm,4pm,and then 7pm. Deployed 2 extra rotary sprinklers to help with dry spots. This seed is amazingly tough...


----------



## L337pcnoob

1 more tip, peat moss!


----------



## jeffcatton

@L337pcnoob Coming along nice in a heatwave!

BTW ... if you get any Bermuda creeping into you KBG, use Hi-Yield Triclopyr Estr, in 1 week after spraying I noticed the Bermuda stopped growing, turned brown (dying) and hopefully will be gone 

It says to apply 4 weeks apart in growing season (1 TBSP per GALLON).

Picture attached after 1 week (I stopped while cutting tonight as I could really see the difference) ... red is where it is dying - noticeable, green is where the KBG grew and no Bermuda at same height anymore ... so far it appears promising.


----------



## jda989

My lawn situation:

We currently have a patchy Bermuda lawn due to shade and other factors. We are planning to overseed with a mix of at least 3 different kinds of Hybrid Bluegrass (SPF30, Bandera, Fahrenheit-90). The goal is a Bluemuda lawn to start, with the long-term goal of crowding out the Bermuda if the hybrid kbg mix grows well in our hardiness zone 8a. We have a sprinkler system so watering should not be an issue. I have seen posts about HGT, but am not confident in it surviving this far south so putting my money on the Hybrids. Still thinking it all through and planning to start the project in a couple weeks.


----------



## citizensauto

jda989 said:


> My lawn situation:
> 
> We currently have a patchy Bermuda lawn due to shade and other factors. We are planning to overseed with a mix of at least 3 different kinds of Hybrid Bluegrass (SPF30, Bandera, Fahrenheit-90). The goal is a Bluemuda lawn to start, with the long-term goal of crowding out the Bermuda if the hybrid kbg mix grows well in our hardiness zone 8a. We have a sprinkler system so watering should not be an issue. I have seen posts about HGT, but am not confident in it surviving this far south so putting my money on the Hybrids. Still thinking it all through and planning to start the project in a couple weeks.


Do you know what the difference between Fahrenheit-90 and SPF-30 is? I have asked and got no response. The reason i decided to dig deeper is the Fahrenheit comes in at a higher price point than the SPF-30, but they are both Poa arachnifera and Poa pratensis. See below
*Fahrenheit* https://21b9cb9d-3ba6-4d9e-8ba1-b4a...d/bb20f6_2f6769d409b84c7f98ac2d01de9e241d.pdf
*SPF-30 *http://www.speareseeds.ca/shared/media/editor/file/SPF-30 2(1).pdf


----------



## Captquin

jda989 said:


> Do you know what the difference between Fahrenheit-90 and SPF-30 is?
> *Fahrenheit* https://21b9cb9d-3ba6-4d9e-8ba1-b4a...d/bb20f6_2f6769d409b84c7f98ac2d01de9e241d.pdf
> *SPF-30 *http://www.speareseeds.ca/shared/media/editor/file/SPF-30 2(1).pdf


Believe they are from two different growers. SPF-30 is from Outside Pride and Fahrenheit 90 is from Mountain View Seeds.


----------



## jda989

citizensauto said:


> jda989 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My lawn situation:
> 
> We currently have a patchy Bermuda lawn due to shade and other factors. We are planning to overseed with a mix of at least 3 different kinds of Hybrid Bluegrass (SPF30, Bandera, Fahrenheit-90). The goal is a Bluemuda lawn to start, with the long-term goal of crowding out the Bermuda if the hybrid kbg mix grows well in our hardiness zone 8a. We have a sprinkler system so watering should not be an issue. I have seen posts about HGT, but am not confident in it surviving this far south so putting my money on the Hybrids. Still thinking it all through and planning to start the project in a couple weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know what the difference between Fahrenheit-90 and SPF-30 is? I have asked and got no response. The reason i decided to dig deeper is the Fahrenheit comes in at a higher price point than the SPF-30, but they are both Poa arachnifera and Poa pratensis. See below
> *Fahrenheit* https://21b9cb9d-3ba6-4d9e-8ba1-b4a...d/bb20f6_2f6769d409b84c7f98ac2d01de9e241d.pdf
> *SPF-30 *http://www.speareseeds.ca/shared/media/editor/file/SPF-30 2(1).pdf
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell the difference is the pedigree.

According to this SPF30 is direct offspring of KBG and TBG cross with no further breeding.

Source:http://www.speareseeds.ca/shared/media/editor/file/SPF-30 2(1).pdf

"Fahrenheit 90 Hybrid bluegrass is a cross of a female Texas Bluegrass (Poa arachnifera) plant selected at the USDA station in Oklahoma with SR 2109 Kentucky bluegrass (Poa pratensis). Seed from this cross was grown out in Adelphia NJ where a promising hybrid was identified and crossed with Lakeshore Kentucky bluegrass in 1997. From this cross one promising hybrid was selected and named Fahrenheit 90." source: https://www.seedsuperstore.com/catalog/p-100031/fahrenheit-90-hybrid-kentucky-bluegrass

It is unclear to me which breeding selection is better so I decided diversity is the better option rather than putting all of my eggs in one basket. The difference in price is unclear. It could be because the company spent the extra time to attempt further breeding/testing to produce Fahrenheit 90. Where SPF30 was a single breeding. That's my best guess.


----------



## L337pcnoob

jeffcatton said:


> @L337pcnoob Coming along nice in a heatwave!
> 
> BTW ... if you get any Bermuda creeping into you KBG, use Hi-Yield Triclopyr Estr, in 1 week after spraying I noticed the Bermuda stopped growing, turned brown (dying) and hopefully will be gone


 Thanks for the info as I do have one border on the neighbors side that has some Bermuda inside of his st Augustine. I have offered to cut it out and resod st Augustine but I will definitely get some of this just in case.


----------



## Greendoc

@L337pcnoob How are your night temperatures? That is what determines if a cool season grass can make it or not.


----------



## Spammage

@Greendoc soil temps here are currently 93° at nearly midnight. This time of year is tough in DFW.


----------



## Greendoc

Reason why I am asking is because I want to do an experiment with hybrid Bluegrass.


----------



## L337pcnoob

Deleted duplicate post


----------



## L337pcnoob

L337pcnoob said:


> Air temperature right now is 105 degrees lol, nighttime it's been dropping to about 80-85. I give the seed bed a good 5-10 minute cool down bath at sunset to help expedite cooling off the soil. This is one heck of an time to experiment seeding in august. Somehow, the spf 30 is still germinating in the blazing sun. I do have some dry spots in the back yard due to this now 5 day heatwave.
> 
> Front yard is still growing fine because of the partial shade, despite temperature.
> 
> 
> 
> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> @L337pcnoob How are your night temperatures? That is what determines if a cool season grass can make it or not.
Click to expand...


----------



## Greendoc

Daytime temperatures in the low 90s max. Night temperatures for the majority of the year are in the mid 70s-80. Question becomes, how long can cool season grass hold out when that is how it is 8 or more months out of the year


----------



## Spammage

Greendoc said:


> Daytime temperatures in the low 90s max. Night temperatures for the majority of the year are in the mid 70s-80. Question becomes, how long can cool season grass hold out when that is how it is 8 or more months out of the year


I don't think the temps are the problem for either KBG (either heat tolerant hybrids or heat tolerant cultivars like Midnight) or TTTF, but you would probably be battling fungus most of the year.


----------



## Greendoc

Maybe. Other factor is that humidity never goes below 60% here.


----------



## Spammage

Greendoc said:


> Maybe. Other factor is that humidity never goes below 60% here.


Yep, that's the problem. My dad in Amarillo, TX grows both Midnight in his back yard and TTTF in the front. Their soil temperatures were over 100° in the afternoon yesterday, but they cool off into the high 60°s/low 70°s at night and have average afternoon humidity in the 15% range during the summer months. Their soil temperatures are averaging about 95° for a 24 hour period right now. I think he's only ever had one fungal outbreak, and he doesn't use fungicides.


----------



## gtd

August 12, I seeded 380 sf with SPF 30 HBG only, in an area I prepped by smothering weeds with cardboard for a couple of months. I'm in northern Alabama, near Florence, in zone 7b. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Cdub5_

This thread has convinced me to try this as my backyard grass. I've been hesitant to redo the back because I have neighbor's trees that cast some shade on my yard. These same trees have roots that run in my yard too so I don't what to use a reel mower back there.
This SPF-30 looks like the perfect grass. I have a pool also so the nice grass will be wonderful to walk on


----------



## Cdub5_

What steps would I have to take to convert my established bermuda lawn to SPF-30? Is this even the right time of year?
Here's a pic of what I'll be working with


----------



## jda989

Cdub5_ said:


> What steps would I have to take to convert my established bermuda lawn to SPF-30? Is this even the right time of year?
> Here's a pic of what I'll be working with


My wife and I are in the same spot you are in. We have a patchy Bermuda lawn as well. The plan for replacing would be to roundup the yard. Till the yard down to dirt. Then you have the option of putting down a soil amendment if it's needed. This option would be determined based on if your soil is compacted and what your soil sample test reveals. Getting a soil sample test done is probably a good idea, but if you don't I would at least get a PH meter to see if your soil is in range for the seed you want. If it's not then there are steps to take to balance it. SPF30 is best planted in the fall which is almost here. I've seen different claims about when to use starter fertilizer. Some say when you put down the seed and others after all of the seed has sprouted. I lean toward the wait till sprouting due to someone I watched on YouTube tried both and he has the best results after waiting. Once you put the seed down the cover it with a 1/4" layer of peat moss and then water it. Keep it moist until all the seeds have sprouted.

Our Situation:

Now for us, we decided to just over-seed our Bermuda to reduce overall cost and time to redo our .6 acre yard just for this year and see how it does and if it looks bad or doesn't meet our expectations then we would fully renovate next year. Our goal is a year-round green lawn. We were between two grass species Hybrid Bluegrass (SPF30) and Bentgrass (used on Fairways, Golf Greens, etc.). Both of these have opinions that go all over the place it seems like. We decided we are going to "try" Bentgrass, because of its thick, short, aggressive growth habit and certain elite varieties handle heat/cold/shade and other factors well along with a somewhat less amount of fertilizer and should pair ok with Bermuda. Now I'm not trying to turn my yard into a fairway with perfect golf course management. I am going to reel mow it to .5" and keep it there and occasionally put down some fertilizer. All that to says there are other options you may want to consider.


----------



## Cdub5_

Thanks for the response JDA!
I'm going to do a bunch of reading and watching videos on other people's renos to get my plans straightened out.


----------



## citizensauto

Cdub5_ said:


> What steps would I have to take to convert my established bermuda lawn to SPF-30? Is this even the right time of year?


1. Kill Bermuda - Will include several applications of glysophate 
2. Prep the area - Complete scalp the area and remove the dead grass
3. Top soil, compost etc
4. Seed - keep in mind the temps are kinda high at the moment. SPF-30 will struggle unless in a somewhat shaded area and keep it watered!Add starter fert at seeding or wait until they start sprouting then add the starter fert.
5. Peat moss (i would rent a peat moss spreader makes it easier to spread as its a very messy process if you do it by hand)
6. Water...Water...water


----------



## L337pcnoob

Cdub5_ said:


> Thanks for the response JDA!
> I'm going to do a bunch of reading and watching videos on other people's renos to get my plans straightened out.


I'm in Rowlett Texas, zone 8, and I seeded 8/1/2020 and so far the spf seedlings survives the 105 degree heat for 5 days. Watch Ryan Knorrs Lawn Carr renovation video series. I followed his steps from start to finish. The first time I attempted the renovation, I tilled, and boy that was a mistake as I unearthed millions of crab grass seeds and had to start over. I highly recommend glysophate, water wait 1-2 weeks, gloysophate again, POWER RAKE (do not till to avoid weed seed surprises, core aerate, level, seed, roll, then peat and water. Tilling Isn't bad, but if you don't have a lot of weeds right now don't risk it. Also tenacity at seed will save you more headache.


----------



## Cdub5_

I have a Sun Joe Dethatcher with both attachments, the spring loaded tines reel and the big bladed reel. Would this work to power rake my lawn?
I think I have everything covered except for the Tenacity. When will I apply that?
Also, where should I order the seed from? My back yard is about 2,000sqft so how many pounds would be safe? (I was thinking 10lbs)
Thanks guys this is totally a spur of the moment thing I hope I do ok LOL!!


----------



## Cdub5_

Speaking of the Tenacity, will I do a blanket application right when I throw the seed down? This application won't hinder new seed growth?


----------



## L337pcnoob

Cdub5_ said:


> Speaking of the Tenacity, will I do a blanket application right when I throw the seed down? This application won't hinder new seed growth?


Apply tenacity at seed, I believe 1 gallon should cover 1000 square feet. If you are into new tools and ryobi has a cordless sprayer 1,2, and 4 gallon, thing is awesome saves you the trouble of stop and pump. I have a greenworks dethatcher with the spring tines, it works with several passes but since it was 100 degrees here I went to Home Depot and knocked it out in an hour with a gas power rake. I also used my mower with bag to vacuum up the dead grass. Literally 2 passes bag was full. I used what was recommended in this thread, outside pride spf-30. I heard Bermuda is hard to kill, so glysophate throughly.


----------



## L337pcnoob

Day 22 update pics: 







I screwed up in the middle of the back yard where it gets to much sun and over watered to the point where algae grew all over the surface, I had to scrape it all off with a rake and reseed. The front yard is coming in amazing. Can't express how grateful I am to have found this post/forum.


----------



## citizensauto

L337pcnoob said:


> Day 22 update pics:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I screwed up in the middle of the back yard where it gets to much sun and over watered to the point where algae grew all over the surface, I had to scrape it all off with a rake and reseed. The front yard is coming in amazing. Can't express how grateful I am to have found this post/forum.


Good stuff :thumbup:


----------



## L337pcnoob

jeffcatton said:


> @L337pcnoob Coming along nice in a heatwave!
> 
> BTW ... if you get any Bermuda creeping into you KBG, use Hi-Yield Triclopyr Estr, in 1 week after spraying I noticed the Bermuda stopped growing, turned brown (dying) and hopefully will be gone
> 
> It says to apply 4 weeks apart in growing season (1 TBSP per GALLON).
> 
> Picture attached after 1 week (I stopped while cutting tonight as I could really see the difference) ... red is where it is dying - noticeable, green is where the KBG grew and no Bermuda at same height anymore ... so far it appears promising.


Hey Jeff, did you have some sprout and pout time with the spf-30? If so, how long did it last for you?


----------



## Captquin

Hey all. Wanted to make you aware of a test I'm doing with Turf Blue HGT and SPF-30. Feel free to follow along if interested.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22489


----------



## jeffcatton

L337pcnoob said:


> Hey Jeff, did you have some sprout and pout time with the spf-30? If so, how long did it last for you?


Not sure I understand that ask here. I did hit some of my areas where new grass sprouts were visible, it (the spray) did not appear to impact them, only the Bermuda. Do follow the instructions in measuring and apply only 1 per month.

Hope that helps and I captured what the ask was.


----------



## jeffcatton

L337pcnoob said:


> Looking good @L337pcnoob .... wait till you see it grow all winter here ... you do have to cut all year


----------



## L337pcnoob

jeffcatton said:


> L337pcnoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Jeff, did you have some sprout and pout time with the spf-30? If so, how long did it last for you?
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure I understand that ask here. I did hit some of my areas where new grass sprouts were visible, it (the spray) did not appear to impact them, only the Bermuda. Do follow the instructions in measuring and apply only 1 per month.
> 
> Hope that helps and I captured what the ask was.
Click to expand...

Did your spf-30 have a period of time where it kind of sat for a while before growing again after sprout? I did some research and people call the term "sprout and pout". I have some areas that are taking off and some that are tillering, but no vertical growth.

I'll be willing to cut all year if I had a lawn like yours lol!


----------



## jeffcatton

L337pcnoob said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L337pcnoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Jeff, did you have some sprout and pout time with the spf-30? If so, how long did it last for you?
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure I understand that ask here. I did hit some of my areas where new grass sprouts were visible, it (the spray) did not appear to impact them, only the Bermuda. Do follow the instructions in measuring and apply only 1 per month.
> 
> Hope that helps and I captured what the ask was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did your spf-30 have a period of time where it kind of sat for a while before growing again after sprout? I did some research and people call the term "sprout and pout". I have some areas that are taking off and some that are tillering, but no vertical growth.
> 
> I'll be willing to cut all year if I had a lawn like yours lol!
Click to expand...

@L337pcnoob, yes it did in fact, *that is a great observation* that I did not think of sharing. I found it would "pout" in the more sunny areas that happened until the cooler time in early Dec. Where as, areas with a few hours of direct sun just kept growing.

p.s. Great to see your success also in this dry, hot time in Texas. Nice work!


----------



## gtd

jeffcatton said:


> L337pcnoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did your spf-30 have a period of time where it kind of sat for a while before growing again after sprout? I did some research and people call the term "sprout and pout". I have some areas that are taking off and some that are tillering, but no vertical growth.
> 
> 
> 
> @L337pcnoob @jeffcatton, thank you both for your comments about "sprout and pout." That's what my test area of SPF30 is doing and I've been worrying that something's wrong.
Click to expand...


----------



## Cdub5_

Lawn is starting to get toasty 
This is 54 hours after the first glyphosate/urea application for the 2nd half of the backyard. Seed should be here in the next few days, but I'm still a good 2-3 weeks out from using it.


----------



## Cdub5_

@L337pcnoob Thats lookin good!
Won't be long and you will have to give it it's first hair cut


----------



## L337pcnoob

Cdub5_ said:


> @L337pcnoob Thats lookin good!
> Won't be long and you will have to give it it's first hair cut


I'm hoping to be able to reel mow at least by October 1st. The next 3 day are at least 100-105 degrees so growth and new germination will be stalled. But Monday-Wednesday we are finally getting cooler weather and RAIN!!!


----------



## Cdub5_

@L337pcnoob so you are going to be reel mowing your spf-30? I'd like to reel mow at some point but first I want to grow some nice lush 3" kbg and stripe the hell out of it


----------



## L337pcnoob

Cdub5_ said:


> @L337pcnoob so you are going to be reel mowing your spf-30? I'd like to reel mow at some point but first I want to grow some nice lush 3" kbg and stripe the hell out of it


I'm just going to use a push reel mower in the beginning to get some cuts in to encourage the grass to start get getting bushier and thicker. Also to safely get some cuts in without pulling out any, then I'm going to let it grow a bit taller and stripe the heck outta it lol. I think I'm going to mix some tttf on the boarders of the front and and spread evenly in the back.


----------



## L337pcnoob

@jeffcatton questions for spf-30:

1. What height was your first mow? 
2. Do you remember when your first real application of nit fertilizer was?

I'm kind of worried about certain portions getting too tall as this stuff definitely does not come in at a uniform rate due to sun/shade. Just wondering how you handled that situation.


----------



## jeffcatton

L337pcnoob said:


> @jeffcatton questions for spf-30:
> 
> 1. What height was your first mow?
> 2. Do you remember when your first real application of nit fertilizer was?
> 
> I'm kind of worried about certain portions getting too tall as this stuff definitely does not come in at a uniform rate due to sun/shade. Just wondering how you handled that situation.


With new grass I first cut at 2" to clean up the look (catch the fast growers), moved to 2.5-2.75" and then as it really thickened a couple months later I moved up to 3" cut to keep weeds out. Hope that helps. I do want to go back to a lower cut 2.5" - 2.75" this fall.


----------



## billmajure

Cdub5_ said:


> I have a Sun Joe Dethatcher with both attachments, the spring loaded tines reel and the big bladed reel. Would this work to power rake my lawn?
> I think I have everything covered except for the Tenacity. When will I apply that?
> Also, where should I order the seed from? My back yard is about 2,000sqft so how many pounds would be safe? (I was thinking 10lbs)
> Thanks guys this is totally a spur of the moment thing I hope I do ok LOL!!


I have the same Sun Joe Dethatcher/Scarifier, which I bought for the purpose of planting SPF-30 seed this fall. I plan to kill the unwanted Bermuda grass with Roundup, then scalp the grass, and then use the Scarifier to cut into the dirt so the seed will make good soil contact. I will then seed, using a Scott's battery operated handheld spreader. And then immediately apply the version of Scott's starter fertilizer that contains Tenacity weedkiller. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B04KC4O I've used the Scott's product (fertilizer with Tenacity) before, and I've found that it is important not to use too much, so that the tenacity application isn't overdone. But when directions are followed, it is a convenient way to apply Tenacity in the right amount for reseeding.


----------



## billmajure

Get the seed from https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass-seed/bluegrass-seed/kentucky-bluegrass-hybrid.html


----------



## jeffcatton

Cdub5_ said:


> @L337pcnoob so you are going to be reel mowing your spf-30? I'd like to reel mow at some point but first I want to grow some nice lush 3" kbg and stripe the hell out of it


 :lol: ".... _*lush 3" kbg and stripe the hell out of it *_"


----------



## L337pcnoob

jeffcatton said:


> L337pcnoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jeffcatton questions for spf-30:
> 
> 1. What height was your first mow?
> 2. Do you remember when your first real application of nit fertilizer was?
> 
> I'm kind of worried about certain portions getting too tall as this stuff definitely does not come in at a uniform rate due to sun/shade. Just wondering how you handled that situation.
> 
> 
> 
> With new grass I first cut at 2" to clean up the look (catch the fast growers), moved to 2.5-2.75" and then as it really thickened a couple months later I moved up to 3" cut to keep weeds out. Hope that helps. I do want to go back to a lower cut 2.5" - 2.75" this fall.
Click to expand...

Yea this helps a lot. Any ideas on when you put your first # of nitrogen down ?
Also did you let the weeds kinda grow in with the grass and then choke it out? I have some splurge but that will disappear when the intense watering schedule goes away and some nutsedge. I hand pull all of the giant stuff but man getting tiresome.


----------



## jeffcatton

Oh this Texas RAIN is the best for growing that nice, lush, dark green SPF-30 !! Perfect timing and cooler temps !!

Stocks are crap, but loving the rain today


----------



## L337pcnoob

jeffcatton said:


> Oh this Texas RAIN is the best for growing that nice, lush, dark green SPF-30 !! Perfect timing and cooler temps !!
> 
> Stocks are crap, but loving the rain today


Much needed !! Here is a quick shot of the Most lush part of the backyard, it's flopping over due to all the rain. Waiting for reel mower to come in so I can start training that spot at 2 inches. It's very tangled like hair in that area and I'm not sure if that's normal or not.


----------



## jeffcatton

Yes it started to do that to me also and it will get stronger over time - few months will thicken the blades up.

Don't let it get too long.

Looks great, happy for you!


----------



## jeffcatton

jeffcatton said:


> Yes it started to do that to me also and it will get stronger over time - few months will thicken the blades up.
> 
> Don't let it get too long.
> 
> Looks great, happy for you!


@L337pcnoob ... you can get your hair scissors (on your knees) out until your mower comes


----------



## cbirk

Hello all,
This thread is incredibly useful. As you can see by the attached image, I've lost my lawn. It is a mix of TTTF, crabgrass, and likely lots of other varieties of grass and weeds. I'm ready to move forward with SPF-30 for my mostly shady lawn near Charlotte, North Carolina. I have a couple of questions:



1) Do I need to kill everything first or can I just cut it as low as possible then seed? If kill first, what should I use that's safe for kids and dog?
2) Is now a good time to start? Our typical day now is 85 and night drops to 65.

Thanks in advance for the guidance.
Chris


----------



## L337pcnoob

jeffcatton said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it started to do that to me also and it will get stronger over time - few months will thicken the blades up.
> 
> Don't let it get too long.
> 
> Looks great, happy for you!
> 
> 
> 
> @L337pcnoob ... you can get your hair scissors (on your knees) out until your mower comes
Click to expand...

Baby stripes lol


----------



## jeffcatton

L337pcnoob said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it started to do that to me also and it will get stronger over time - few months will thicken the blades up.
> 
> Don't let it get too long.
> 
> Looks great, happy for you!
> 
> 
> 
> @L337pcnoob ... you can get your hair scissors (on your knees) out until your mower comes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Baby stripes lol
Click to expand...

@L337pcnoob give this a month and you will be very happy 

Here is my home made roller as I have an inexpensive lawn mower 
I packed the PVC (large pipe) with heavy wet sand, works perfect!


----------



## cbirk

cbirk said:


> Hello all,
> This thread is incredibly useful. As you can see by the attached image, I've lost my lawn. It is a mix of TTTF, crabgrass, and likely lots of other varieties of grass and weeds. I'm ready to move forward with SPF-30 for my mostly shady lawn near Charlotte, North Carolina. I have a couple of questions:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Do I need to kill everything first or can I just cut it as low as possible then seed? If kill first, what should I use that's safe for kids and dog?
> 2) Is now a good time to start? Our typical day now is 85 and night drops to 65.
> 
> Thanks in advance for the guidance.
> Chris


I decided to start fresh and round-up the entire yard. The ground base is pretty hard and I was planning to aerate and add compost. Should I level and add compost before I have the yard aerated or the after? Thanks. I need all the help I can get.


----------



## Cdub5_

@L337pcnoob Dang that's coming in nice! Did you finally get a manual reel mower to give it a haircut?


----------



## Cdub5_

@cbirk Hey there! I'm about 2 weeks ahead of you in the process of converting to spf-30. I, too, have a chihuahua to worry about when applying chemicals. 
So, first you need to kill everything. I mean kill it good! Yes, that means using strong chemical like glyphosate. What I did for my dog's sake is I split my yard in half with a physical barrier. That way I only spray half the yard at a time and he can do his business as usual. I give it a full 24 hours before I let my dog walk on the yard after being sprayed.


----------



## L337pcnoob

jeffcatton said:


> L337pcnoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> @L337pcnoob ... you can get your hair scissors (on your knees) out until your mower comes
> 
> 
> 
> Baby stripes lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @L337pcnoob give this a month and you will be very happy
> 
> Here is my home made roller as I have an inexpensive lawn mower
> I packed the PVC (large pipe) with heavy wet sand, works perfect!
Click to expand...

Nice I love saving money like that. I'll have to figure something out. And the pictures of your stripes, heck yea that diy striper works pretty well.


----------



## L337pcnoob

Cdub5_ said:


> @L337pcnoob Dang that's coming in nice! Did you finally get a manual reel mower to give it a haircut?


Yea, Amazon has a sun joe 16 inch reel mower for like 60$, adjustable from 1.1 inch to 2.9 inches. I figured I would reel cut for a month or 2 before bringing out the gas. Plus since I threw some fescue InThe really poor areas in the front and straight mixed it in the back, I needed something easy to keep it at bay until the spf-30 catches up in some spots.

While I'm out there I've been manually hand pulling nutsedge and wild Bermuda. Should have never tilled the back. It is a night and day difference when it come down to weed management as I disturbed a million years of nasty weed seeds not covered on the tenacity bottle.(nutsedge and wild Bermuda)


----------



## Cdub5_

Thats a good price on a cheap manual reel. I may look into getting one to do the first few cuts like you are doing.


----------



## L337pcnoob

Texas rain, I just put down a small touch of fast release nitrogen all over because the spf was showing signs that it needed it and bam! Look at all the rain lol...


----------



## jeffcatton

@L337pcnoob Very Nice !


----------



## Greenthumbdreamer

@jeffcatton hi Jeff, how has your spf-30 held up throughout the summer?? I've been following your posts since last sept and I'm about to put down the spf-30 this weekend.. any regrets or lessons learned before I drop the seed?? Also how many lbs did you put down for the first initial application? We have about same size lawn.. I'm just a little under 1000sqft.. I'm in McKinney


----------



## jeffcatton

Greenthumbdreamer said:


> @jeffcatton hi Jeff, how has your spf-30 held up throughout the summer?? I've been following your posts since last sept and I'm about to put down the spf-30 this weekend.. any regrets or lessons learned before I drop the seed?? Also how many lbs did you put down for the first initial application? We have about same size lawn.. I'm just a little under 1000sqft.. I'm in McKinney


@Greenthumbdreamer The KBG grass actually held up nicely, I love it (soft & cool, not hard & crusty like Bermuda (unless it is on a golf green :lol: )) ... I attached is a quick pic as I am now at 2.5" cut (was at 4") and the strip looks great. I just put on more IONITE and 46-0-0 nitrogen as I put down some new seed. Initially I over-seeded as I did not know what it would need for first time (fresh start - SEPT 2019) in Texas heat - I used 50lbs bag last year. Then got another fresh 25lbs bag this week.

Several are now trying it in Texas, like @L337pcnoob in this discussion, and are looking awesome too. The last rain we had with 80's temp will get *** to grow nicely through to next March.


----------



## L337pcnoob

I don't have a journal so just going to share here: 
Day 44:

I put a light app of 15-5-5 fast release down about a week ago, going to start with .2lbs of urea every Saturday for a couple of weeks to see what happens. I'm also reel mowing at ~2 inches twice a week and watering once a day at 11am for 15 minutes a zone. Still have some seeds germinating.

Here is front:







Here is back (back is over seeded late with 20% tall fescue):





I'm probably aiming to get 4lbs of nitrogen down per 1000k before winter so I'm going to be super aggressive with the nitrogen.


----------



## L337pcnoob

jeffcatton said:


> Greenthumbdreamer said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jeffcatton hi Jeff, how has your spf-30 held up throughout the summer?? I've been following your posts since last sept and I'm about to put down the spf-30 this weekend.. any regrets or lessons learned before I drop the seed?? Also how many lbs did you put down for the first initial application? We have about same size lawn.. I'm just a little under 1000sqft.. I'm in McKinney
> 
> 
> 
> @Greenthumbdreamer The KBG grass actually held up nicely, I love it (soft & cool, not hard & crusty like Bermuda (unless it is on a golf green :lol: )) ... I attached is a quick pic as I am now at 2.5" cut (was at 4") and the strip looks great. I just put on more IONITE and 46-0-0 nitrogen as I put down some new seed. Initially I over-seeded as I did not know what it would need for first time (fresh start - SEPT 2019) in Texas heat - I used 50lbs bag last year. Then got another fresh 25lbs bag this week.
> 
> Several are now trying it in Texas, like @L337pcnoob in this discussion, and are looking awesome too. The last rain we had with 80's temp will get *** to grow nicely through to next March.
Click to expand...

That's looking fantastic @jeffcatton


----------



## jeffcatton

L337pcnoob said:


> I don't have a journal so just going to share here:
> Day 44:
> 
> I put a light app of 15-5-5 fast release down about a week ago, going to start with .2lbs of urea every Saturday for a couple of weeks to see what happens. I'm also reel mowing at ~2 inches twice a week and watering once a day at 11am for 15 minutes a zone. Still have some seeds germinating.


@L337pcnoob Looking awesome, great job you did! How is the reel mower with ***? Is your ground relatively level/smooth? Does it strip well?


----------



## jeffcatton

jeffcatton said:


> L337pcnoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have a journal so just going to share here:
> Day 44:
> 
> I put a light app of 15-5-5 fast release down about a week ago, going to start with .2lbs of urea every Saturday for a couple of weeks to see what happens. I'm also reel mowing at ~2 inches twice a week and watering once a day at 11am for 15 minutes a zone. Still have some seeds germinating.
> 
> 
> 
> @L337pcnoob Looking awesome, great job you did! How is the reel mower with ***? Is your ground relatively level/smooth? Does it stripe well?
Click to expand...


----------



## L337pcnoob

[/quote]
@L337pcnoob Looking awesome, great job you did! How is the reel mower with ***? Is your ground relatively level/smooth? Does it stripe well?
[/quote]

It's a little push behind reel mower, doesn't have any striping capabilities besides the wheels, but when I used it you can tell that this grass has massive striping potential. Anything that rolls across the lawn leaves some sort of imprint.


----------



## Cdub5_

Man, that is coming along! 
Very nice!!


----------



## spartanlawn

@cbirk @jda989 I had to put down two applications of round up and five applications on monkey grass that i had in the backyard (took the month of August). I left the organic matter as a sort of in place mulch as my back yard has a lot of slope to catch seeds that might want to wash away. I dropped an application of tenacity Saturday labor day weekend to maybe help with preemergent weeds and put down the spf on labor day. Grass germed in about a week. I'm watering 7,9,11,2,6,9 for ten minutes. We're moving into cane season so I thought it was important to get roots in as soon as possible before we get days of heavy rains, balancing that with the heat of August. My prior post have been about my front yard I did last year. The weeds have been terrible but I didn't use the process I'm now using in the back. I maxed out my annual tenacity application so I'm going with a new selective herbicide, certainty, which I understand is a gamble. I'm at broken arrow in the front though.


----------



## Cdub5_

I tried to skim through this thread and sorry if I missed it, but how many pounds per 1000sqft did you use. I know their website says like 2-3lbs per 1000sqft. Going off that I just bought a 10lb bag for my 2000sqft backyard. That just sounds a little on the low side. I could be wrong I've never done this before


----------



## jeffcatton

Cdub5_ said:


> I tried to skim through this thread and sorry if I missed it, but how many pounds per 1000sqft did you use. I know their website says like 2-3lbs per 1000sqft. Going off that I just bought a 10lb bag for my 2000sqft backyard. That just sounds a little on the low side. I could be wrong I've never done this before


@Cdub5_ .... from a prior post above .... now I may have put down an excessive amount but I like thick grass and choke out the Bermuba the best it could 

@Greenthumbdreamer The KBG grass actually held up nicely, I love it (soft & cool, not hard & crusty like Bermuda (unless it is on a golf green :lol: )) ... I attached is a quick pic as I am now at 2.5" cut (was at 4") and the strip looks great. I just put on more IONITE and 46-0-0 nitrogen as I put down some new seed. Initially I over-seeded as I did not know what it would need for first time (fresh start - SEPT 2019) in Texas heat - *I used 50lbs bag last year. *Then got *another fresh 25lbs bag this week*.


----------



## Greenthumbdreamer

Dallas, we have take off! Day 7 and my little buddies are sprouting!!


----------



## jeffcatton

Greenthumbdreamer said:


> Dallas, we have take off! Day 7 and my little buddies are sprouting!!


@Greenthumbdreamer nice, Christmas is early for you! This is the PERFECT time of year to get them sprouting, once started it will grow all winter here and be super thick by March. With more good rain coming and back yo 80's, it will help get them growing. Just make sure to keep the Nitrogen and Starter Fertilizer on there - give them a good feeding.


----------



## L337pcnoob

Greenthumbdreamer said:


> Dallas, we have take off! Day 7 and my little buddies are sprouting!!


Woohooo congrats man... one more person to the spf-30 in dfw club!


----------



## Captquin

@jeffcatton How much would you recommend for new grass? 1/2 lb of N per 1000 every two weeks?


----------



## jeffcatton

Captquin said:


> @jeffcatton How much would you recommend for new grass? 1/2 lb of N per 1000 every two weeks?


@Captquin on the Friday I just put on 3lbs Nitro + 3 lbs Starter Fertilizer on my FRONT yard only ~4000 sqft (I over seeded the FRONT). I have yet to put on Ionite and fall fertilizer on front/back yard (has very little Nito in it).


----------



## L337pcnoob

Gave it its first gas mow with toro striping kit. HOC 2 inches. Also spread .5 lbs per 1k urea with iRonite.

Next week I'll hit it with more urea , humic acid once a month, sedgehammer, turflon ester, and reduce watering to once a day in the am and spot water bare areas. The herbicides mentioned is for the Bermuda, splurge, clover, crabgrass and nutsedge. The humic acid treatments is for amping up the root growth and nutrient retention.


----------



## jeffcatton

L337pcnoob said:


> Gave it its first gas mow with toro striping kit. HOC 2 inches. Also spread .5 lbs per 1k urea with iRonite.
> 
> Next week I'll hit it with more urea , humic acid once a month, sedgehammer, turflon ester, and reduce watering to once a day in the am and spot water bare areas. The herbicides mentioned is for the Bermuda, splurge, clover, crabgrass and nutsedge. The humic acid treatments is for amping up the root growth and nutrient retention.


@L337pcnoob WOW, looks amazing, thanks for sharing your results! You must be very happy with your thus far (stripes looks good too .... diagonal next  )


----------



## jeffcatton

jeffcatton said:


> L337pcnoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gave it its first gas mow with toro striping kit. HOC 2 inches. Also spread .5 lbs per 1k urea with iRonite.
> 
> Next week I'll hit it with more urea , humic acid once a month, sedgehammer, turflon ester, and reduce watering to once a day in the am and spot water bare areas. The herbicides mentioned is for the Bermuda, splurge, clover, crabgrass and nutsedge. The humic acid treatments is for amping up the root growth and nutrient retention.
> 
> 
> 
> @L337pcnoob WOW, looks amazing, thanks for sharing your results! You must be very happy thus far (stripes looks good too .... diagonal next  )
Click to expand...


----------



## L337pcnoob

jeffcatton said:


> L337pcnoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gave it its first gas mow with toro striping kit. HOC 2 inches. Also spread .5 lbs per 1k urea with iRonite.
> 
> Next week I'll hit it with more urea , humic acid once a month, sedgehammer, turflon ester, and reduce watering to once a day in the am and spot water bare areas. The herbicides mentioned is for the Bermuda, splurge, clover, crabgrass and nutsedge. The humic acid treatments is for amping up the root growth and nutrient retention.
> 
> 
> 
> @L337pcnoob WOW, looks amazing, thanks for sharing your results! You must be very happy with your thus far (stripes looks good too .... diagonal next  )
Click to expand...

Thanks man! I'm quite impressed and pleased but the wife loveeeees it. That was my firs time striping ever in my life so I'm going to need research some tips and tricks, especially with a tree in the middle. I found myself going over some areas 🙃


----------



## Steve

What type of watering requirements does this have in the Dallas area? Only allowed 2 days a week, April 1 - Oct 31.


----------



## L337pcnoob

Steve said:


> What type of watering requirements does this have in the Dallas area? Only allowed 2 days a week, April 1 - Oct 31.


I'm in Dallas county right outside of Dallas and there aren't any watering restrictions. If you have restrictions, that's going to be tough unless you start and sow by mid/late October. I started august first and I had to water 4-6 times a day depending on how much full sun a particular area was getting. Plus, august-September had some 100 degree days if not weeks. If you call city utilities, they will make an exception.

Once established I believe 1 1/2 per week in summer, 1 inch otherwise.


----------



## jchu

@jeffcatton 
@L337pcnoob 
New user here, I have been following this post for a while, decided to try this SPF30 HKBG in San Antonio area, zone 8b. I will start to apply Glyphosate on Tuesday and hopefully I can get the ground/soil ready by Oct 15th, do you guys think it's too late for seeding?


----------



## jeffcatton

jchu said:


> @jeffcatton
> @L337pcnoob
> New user here, I have been following this post for a while, decided to try this SPF30 HKBG in San Antonio area, zone 8b. I will start to apply Glyphosate on Tuesday and hopefully I can get the ground/soil ready by Oct 15th, do you guys think it's too late for seeding?


@jchu I believe the ground temp should be > 65. In your area I trust you will be around that temp in OCT. Need about 2-3 weeks to get the sprouts start and it will continue to grow and mow during the winter and spring. Hope that helps. Hope you can share your progress and success with pics throughout your engagement in KBG that far south in Texas.


----------



## L337pcnoob

Hows everyone's projects and renos coming along?


----------



## thompwa

L337pcnoob said:


> Hows everyone's projects and renos coming along?


Got my ground prepped and seed down about a month ago. Today I got the second cut in and it's looking pretty good. Beginning to be able to pick out the SPF-30 in the TTTF if I look close enough.


----------



## TylUmp

Question: Seeded SPF-30 last Monday. Starting to see it slowly pop up, but so is some Nutsedge. Can I hit the sedge with Sedgehammer in the newly seeded area?


----------



## lucas287

jchu said:


> @jeffcatton
> @L337pcnoob
> New user here, I have been following this post for a while, decided to try this SPF30 HKBG in San Antonio area, zone 8b. I will start to apply Glyphosate on Tuesday and hopefully I can get the ground/soil ready by Oct 15th, do you guys think it's too late for seeding?


It probably won't go well come early summer. Been there done this - I live in Boerne (a bit cooler than San Antonio). It was pretty awesome until June, but it started to thin out a lot in high sun areas leaving big dead spots for the bermuda to fill in. In fact, some of those spots are still not filled in.

Some factors that might have led to my KBG demise:
*Reel mowed sub-1" until June. (should've bumped it to 1.5" or 2")
*watered only once/week like I usually water bermuda

I do still have areas in the shade that have persisted and survived all summer, though! But ultimately, I think a proper warm season grass for your specific light requirements is still best, then simply overseed for the fall and winter.

If you live in the transition zone you could probably get away with the Bluemuda concept, but I'm counting my experiment as a failure. My 2 cents at least.


----------



## jeffcatton

thompwa said:


> L337pcnoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hows everyone's projects and renos coming along?
> 
> 
> 
> Got my ground prepped and seed down about a month ago. Today I got the second cut in and it's looking pretty good. Beginning to be able to pick out the SPF-30 in the TTTF if I look close enough.
Click to expand...

@thompwa Very Nice! Looking really good for 1 month. If you are warm enough during the winter, it will continue to fill in and get the deep green coloring.


----------



## thompwa

jeffcatton said:


> thompwa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L337pcnoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hows everyone's projects and renos coming along?
> 
> 
> 
> Got my ground prepped and seed down about a month ago. Today I got the second cut in and it's looking pretty good. Beginning to be able to pick out the SPF-30 in the TTTF if I look close enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @thompwa Very Nice! Looking really good for 1 month. If you are warm enough during the winter, it will continue to fill in and get the deep green coloring.
Click to expand...

Thanks much! The seed blend I used had about 10% SPF. Assuming it does well I may go 100% spf going forward.


----------



## L337pcnoob

thompwa said:


> L337pcnoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hows everyone's projects and renos coming along?
> 
> 
> 
> Got my ground prepped and seed down about a month ago. Today I got the second cut in and it's looking pretty good. Beginning to be able to pick out the SPF-30 in the TTTF if I look close enough.
Click to expand...

That's looking fantastic !


----------



## L337pcnoob

TylUmp said:


> Question: Seeded SPF-30 last Monday. Starting to see it slowly pop up, but so is some Nutsedge. Can I hit the sedge with Sedgehammer in the newly seeded area?


Pull the nut grass by hand for a while until the spf matures, I had tons in my back yard and manual control helped out a lot. Sedgehamer may harm the seedlings. Once it thickens up and you mow a couple of times, I used an 8 dollar spray of ortho nutsedge killer in a test area and the spf survived. But I plan to take care of it next spring with sedge hammer once the sedge becomes obviously taller. I didn't want to take any risks because I had some serious sprouts and pout.. like 3 weeks worth.


----------



## Cdub5_

Hey everyone
I thought I would give an update in this thread covering my OKC SPF30 reno. Boy is this stuff ssssslllllooooowwwww to grow!!
The pics I'm posting are from my security cameras and the grass is starting to become visible. To the naked eye there looks to be a lot more growth than the cameras show. One thing I've noticed is the grass isn't getting much taller, but the single blades that sprouted now have 2-3 blades. So it's doing something haha 
And please excuse the pool slide, I had to take it down and have no where to store the dang behemoth 

18 days since seeding





A closeup of the thickest spot


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## Cdub5_

Also you guys' lawns look amazing! I hope mine fills in and looks as nice as yalls do one day


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## L337pcnoob

Cdub5_ said:


> Hey everyone
> I thought I would give an update in this thread covering my OKC SPF30 reno. Boy is this stuff ssssslllllooooowwwww to grow!!
> The pics I'm posting are from my security cameras and the grass is starting to become visible. To the naked eye there looks to be a lot more growth than the cameras show. One thing I've noticed is the grass isn't getting much taller, but the single blades that sprouted now have 2-3 blades. So it's doing something haha
> And please excuse the pool slide, I had to take it down and have no where to store the dang behemoth
> 
> 18 days since seeding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A closeup of the thickest spot


Looking good! Don't worry you are in the "pout" phase, keep it watered and moist, the roots are growing deeper and getting established. Once the roots give the top the "OK" to grow, it will take off and thicken up. It could honestly stay in the pout phase for 2-3 weeks. Good luck man, you are on track.


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## L337pcnoob

Also the growth of new blades is called tillering. That's a good sign. Google kbg sprout and pout, it will ease your mind through this period. I seriously thought I did something wrong lol


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## L337pcnoob

70days since seed


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## Captquin

Nice!


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## citizensauto

L337pcnoob said:


> 70days since seed


 :thumbup: looking good! time to push the growth, so it can be well established by spring/summer


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## Cdub5_

@L337pcnoob Thanks man, yeah I figured I'm experiencing the pout stage. Oh well, I have faith it's just doing its thing and will be lookin good in no time.

Man, your yard is looking amazing! What height are you cutting it at? I assume you are using your rotary now for the mowing? Its so thick and lush, very nice!! :thumbup:


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## jeffcatton

@L337pcnoob Very Nice ! It's 98 out right now, try walking on the grass in bare feet ... it stays cool and soft, not hard and prickly like Bermuda


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## L337pcnoob

Cdub5_ said:


> @L337pcnoob Thanks man, yeah I figured I'm experiencing the pout stage. Oh well, I have faith it's just doing its thing and will be lookin good in no time.
> 
> Man, your yard is looking amazing! What height are you cutting it at? I assume you are using your rotary now for the mowing? Its so thick and lush, very nice!! :thumbup:


I'm cutting at 2.75 inches now with rotary. The early cuts with the reel mower really helped Bush things out a tad bit faster.

@jeffcatton yea man what the heck is going on here lol 98-100 for one day and then back down to 80 with a low of 50 tomorrow lol, going to go walk on it now 😀


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## JP900++

Looking great! I threw down Bandera in a blend with Blureberry & 4th Millennium. Hoping it does as well.


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## Cdub5_

Hey, are any of you guys using azoxy for preventative purposes? I'm not use to using fungicides at all and I noticed a KBG reno in the cool season journal where they were talking about needing to apply some azoxy...


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## jeffcatton

Our Kentucky Blue Grass SPF-30 survived the Texas 100+ heat this summer and is looking marvelous! We made it over a year now with ***. Now if I can just keep that darn Bremuda from invasion


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## lucas287

jeffcatton said:


> Our Kentucky Blue Grass SPF-30 survived the Texas 100+ heat this summer and is looking marvelous! We made it over a year now with ***. Now if I can just keep that darn Bremuda from invasion


How often/much were you watering? Looks good BTW! I think the longer HOC is key. Reel low KBG in a Texas summer is a no-go.


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## jeffcatton

lucas287 said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our Kentucky Blue Grass SPF-30 survived the Texas 100+ heat this summer and is looking marvelous! We made it over a year now with ***. Now if I can just keep that darn Bremuda from invasion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How often/much were you watering? Looks good BTW! I think the longer HOC is key. Reel low KBG in a Texas summer is a no-go.
Click to expand...

@lucas287, thanks. I watered 3 times a week (Sun, Tues, Thurs)


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## lucas287

jeffcatton said:


> lucas287 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our Kentucky Blue Grass SPF-30 survived the Texas 100+ heat this summer and is looking marvelous! We made it over a year now with ***. Now if I can just keep that darn Bremuda from invasion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How often/much were you watering? Looks good BTW! I think the longer HOC is key. Reel low KBG in a Texas summer is a no-go.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @lucas287, thanks. I watered 3 times a week (Sun, Tues, Thurs)
Click to expand...

My guess is around .5" each time? Also my issue, I only water 1"/week.


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## jeffcatton

lucas287 said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lucas287 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How often/much were you watering? Looks good BTW! I think the longer HOC is key. Reel low KBG in a Texas summer is a no-go.
> 
> 
> 
> @lucas287, thanks. I watered 3 times a week (Sun, Tues, Thurs)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My guess is around .5" each time? Also my issue, I only water 1"/week.
Click to expand...

sorry, yes about that - we have a lot of clay here with little real dirt. Anymore than that it rolls off and goes down the street :lol:


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## jtb1205

I seeded SPF 30 in Charlotte NC 14 days ago. Found this forum looking for information. I'm wondering if anyone else dealt with falling leaves. Should I pick them up to allow sun and water to get to seed or leave them alone to avoid disturbing the seed and new growth?

Pic attached is at 13 days from seeding.


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## spartanlawn

You may want to try a gentle leaf blower. That's what I did first (around day 28 for me). I seeded my back yard labor day weekend. I just cut it for the first time with the mower yesterday and mulched the leaves (day 40). It didn't "need" to be cut but I'll be mulching leaves from now thru Thanksgiving at least every ten days.


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## L337pcnoob

jeffcatton said:


> Our Kentucky Blue Grass SPF-30 survived the Texas 100+ heat this summer and is looking marvelous! We made it over a year now with ***. Now if I can just keep that darn Bremuda from invasion


Looking good Jeff!
How did you prep for winter?


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## jeffcatton

L337pcnoob said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our Kentucky Blue Grass SPF-30 survived the Texas 100+ heat this summer and is looking marvelous! We made it over a year now with ***. Now if I can just keep that darn Bremuda from invasion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking good Jeff!
> How did you prep for winter?
Click to expand...

Thanks @L337pcnoob, i just put on winter fertilizer (for the weeds) and maintain the same, water and keep cutting every 3-4 days.


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## jeffcatton

Here is an evening shot from last night ... have to put in my Halloween light filters (orange and purple) still.


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## TylUmp

I seeded on 9/28 and this is where I am thus far. Should I re-seed the bare spots? Soil temps are at 66 F.


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## jeffcatton

TylUmp said:


> I seeded on 9/28 and this is where I am thus far. Should I re-seed the bare spots? Soil temps are at 66 F.


@TylUmp yes and add more starter fertilizer and water daily. I just did the same so I can get the sprout before the ground is too cold to germinate. There will be more warm days for the next 2 weeks to get it started and grow all winter/spring.


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## jchu

lucas287 said:


> jchu said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jeffcatton
> @L337pcnoob
> New user here, I have been following this post for a while, decided to try this SPF30 HKBG in San Antonio area, zone 8b. I will start to apply Glyphosate on Tuesday and hopefully I can get the ground/soil ready by Oct 15th, do you guys think it's too late for seeding?
> 
> 
> 
> It probably won't go well come early summer. Been there done this - I live in Boerne (a bit cooler than San Antonio). It was pretty awesome until June, but it started to thin out a lot in high sun areas leaving big dead spots for the bermuda to fill in. In fact, some of those spots are still not filled in.
> 
> Some factors that might have led to my KBG demise:
> *Reel mowed sub-1" until June. (should've bumped it to 1.5" or 2")
> *watered only once/week like I usually water bermuda
> 
> I do still have areas in the shade that have persisted and survived all summer, though! But ultimately, I think a proper warm season grass for your specific light requirements is still best, then simply overseed for the fall and winter.
> 
> If you live in the transition zone you could probably get away with the Bluemuda concept, but I'm counting my experiment as a failure. My 2 cents at least.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your information. But, I already bought the seeds, guess I will go ahead and do it.

I will plant the seeds this week (plan was Oct 15th, couldn't make it), not sure if it will survive since it's only 5 weeks before frost date.


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## jchu

jeffcatton said:


> jchu said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jeffcatton
> @L337pcnoob
> New user here, I have been following this post for a while, decided to try this SPF30 HKBG in San Antonio area, zone 8b. I will start to apply Glyphosate on Tuesday and hopefully I can get the ground/soil ready by Oct 15th, do you guys think it's too late for seeding?
> 
> 
> 
> @jchu I believe the ground temp should be > 65. In your area I trust you will be around that temp in OCT. Need about 2-3 weeks to get the sprouts start and it will continue to grow and mow during the winter and spring. Hope that helps. Hope you can share your progress and success with pics throughout your engagement in KBG that far south in Texas.
Click to expand...

Sure, I will share the result after a few weeks.


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## lucas287

jchu said:


> lucas287 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jchu said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jeffcatton
> @L337pcnoob
> New user here, I have been following this post for a while, decided to try this SPF30 HKBG in San Antonio area, zone 8b. I will start to apply Glyphosate on Tuesday and hopefully I can get the ground/soil ready by Oct 15th, do you guys think it's too late for seeding?
> 
> 
> 
> It probably won't go well come early summer. Been there done this - I live in Boerne (a bit cooler than San Antonio). It was pretty awesome until June, but it started to thin out a lot in high sun areas leaving big dead spots for the bermuda to fill in. In fact, some of those spots are still not filled in.
> 
> Some factors that might have led to my KBG demise:
> *Reel mowed sub-1" until June. (should've bumped it to 1.5" or 2")
> *watered only once/week like I usually water bermuda
> 
> I do still have areas in the shade that have persisted and survived all summer, though! But ultimately, I think a proper warm season grass for your specific light requirements is still best, then simply overseed for the fall and winter.
> 
> If you live in the transition zone you could probably get away with the Bluemuda concept, but I'm counting my experiment as a failure. My 2 cents at least.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for your information. But, I already bought the seeds, guess I will go ahead and do it.
> 
> I will plant the seeds this week (plan was Oct 15th, couldn't make it), not sure if it will survive since it's only 5 weeks before frost date.
Click to expand...

The 14 day forecast looks perfect for seeding! Do it!

Forewarning...patience patience patience. KBG, while germinating quickly, is painfully slow to actually do anything meaningful. Whereas 13 days ago I seeded PRG and I've mowed three times already and laying down sick stripes.


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## texas-ag-86

Just found this forum AFTER overseeing the backyard at the beginning of October. Picked up just a 5 lb bag from Outside Pride thinking it would be nice to have some green for the winter. Then it dawned on me that it is conceivable this could replace the St Augustine we currently have, completely.

Outside indicated a 14 day germination period, however, it began sprouting in just 7 days. With leaf-mageddon fast approaching, it's looking really well established and should tolerate the upcoming (and numerous iterations) of leaf removal. My only regret so far is only doing an over seed rate of 1.5 lbs.

The yard was prepped with a little over 1 yard of top soil (sandy loam/organic mix) from a vendor based out of San Antonio who has a retail outlet here in my neck of the woods. Used a peat moss roller rented from Home Despot to distribute the dressing. First, a based was rolled out, followed by seeding, then a final pass of soil. The results were much better than expected. The idea came from a Turf Management course during college where we learned that in Israel they lay almost an inch of soil on top of their grass seed. The deep root structures help ensure a high tolerance for heat.

To be clear, it amounted to about an eighth of an inch coverage - not an inch!

For those of you that have managed to read this far, I'm actually looking to get some data points on fertilizers successfully being used during the establishment phase. Additionally, what has been your experience with 'fill in' vis-a-vis my over seeding regret. Would you drop another 2 lb rate on top or will this grass grow and fill in?
​​


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## L337pcnoob

texas-ag-86 said:


> Just found this forum AFTER overseeing the backyard at the beginning of October. Picked up just a 5 lb bag from Outside Pride thinking it would be nice to have some green for the winter. Then it dawned on me that it is conceivable this could replace the St Augustine we currently have, completely.
> 
> Outside indicated a 14 day germination period, however, it began sprouting in just 7 days. With leaf-mageddon fast approaching, it's looking really well established and should tolerate the upcoming (and numerous iterations) of leaf removal. My only regret so far is only doing an over seed rate of 1.5 lbs.
> 
> The yard was prepped with a little over 1 yard of top soil (sandy loam/organic mix) from a vendor based out of San Antonio who has a retail outlet here in my neck of the woods. Used a peat moss roller rented from Home Despot to distribute the dressing. First, a based was rolled out, followed by seeding, then a final pass of soil. The results were much better than expected. The idea came from a Turf Management course during college where we learned that in Israel they lay almost an inch of soil on top of their grass seed. The deep root structures help ensure a high tolerance for heat.
> 
> To be clear, it amounted to about an eighth of an inch coverage - not an inch!
> 
> For those of you that have managed to read this far, I'm actually looking to get some data points on fertilizers successfully being used during the establishment phase. Additionally, what has been your experience with 'fill in' vis-a-vis my over seeding regret. Would you drop another 2 lb rate on top or will this grass grow and fill in?
> ​​



August 1st
I Used starter fertilizer once at seed, which may have been a waste since this grass takes a bit to germinate completely 14-28 days. I added another application of starter fertilizer at 30 days because we got rained out pretty bad and that most likely washed away the nutes. Because some areas grew better and faster than others, I reel mowed at 1.75-2 inches until all was even.

October 1st
This was about 2 months after seeding, day 60 ish I started spoon feeding pure urea (I was pretty aggressive here) I put down 1 lb of 46-0-0 per 2000 square feet every Saturday and mowed twice a week. That amount to .2 lb per 1000 sq feet.

I also sprayed started a humic acid treatment (I have hard clay even after amending) and plan on doing monthly during the growing seasons.

November 1st 
I applied my winter application of 15-5-10 at 1 lb of nitrogen per 1000sq feet. Still mowing twice a week if I can. Applied second application of humic acid. I'm still trying to improve my stripe game lol...



​


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## jeffcatton

L337pcnoob said:


>


@L337pcnoob Your grass turned out amazing, impressive, the better half must love it now! Nice job with your yard! What are you using to cut and get your bend now and what height?

Wait for a month and all the neighbor's grass is brown and yours is like hunter green ... wow ... they will notice for sure!

The mix of 46-0-0 Urea and starter fertilizer works well to establish the grass ... also works well in the spring


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## jchu

I seed mine on Oct 26th. It has baby grass now, but all the leaves are falling down. I don't think I can step on those grass to rake it or blow it at this point, it will probably bad for the grass since the root is not established yet. I guess I will leave it this way for few more weeks, Hopefully it won't kill my grass. .


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## L337pcnoob

jeffcatton said:


> L337pcnoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @L337pcnoob Your grass turned out amazing, impressive, the better half must love it now! Nice job with your yard! What are you using to cut and get your bend now and what height?
> 
> Wait for a month and all the neighbor's grass is brown and yours is like hunter green ... wow ... they will notice for sure!
> 
> The mix of 46-0-0 Urea and starter fertilizer works well to establish the grass ... also works well in the spring
Click to expand...

Yea the mrs and family are loving it compared to where we came from, thatchy dull Augustine. I'm cutting at 2.75 inches using a Troy built tb200 with a toro striping kit. I packed it with gravel and bbs, then filled it up with water to make it heavy lol. The color of spf almost makes it look like fake grass, it's super green especially when the sun hits it. What's surprising is instead of spraying herbicides to fight some late crabgrass, Bermuda, and splurge, this grass really fills in thick and choked them out really well. I purchased almost 150$ worth of herbicides and have not had to use them. The only weed that is putting up a fight in some areas is prickly lettuce.


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## texas-ag-86

> August 1st
> I Used starter fertilizer once at seed, which may have been a waste since this grass takes a bit to germinate completely 14-28 days. I added another application of starter fertilizer at 30 days because we got rained out pretty bad and that most likely washed away the nutes. Because some areas grew better and faster than others, I reel mowed at 1.75-2 inches until all was even.


Your lawn looks great! I'm feeling like the 1.5 lbs per 1K will leave the back yard looking anemic. What rate did you use to seed? Sorry if that was addressed in an earlier post - I don't recall seeing any rates on other posts.​


> October 1st
> This was about 2 months after seeding, day 60 ish I started spoon feeding pure urea (I was pretty aggressive here) I put down 1 lb of 46-0-0 per 2000 square feet every Saturday and mowed twice a week. That amount to .2 lb per 1000 sq feet.


That is aggressive. I did something similar with my original Tifway Bermuda a few years back and killed it - like overnight. It eventually rebounded but the emotional trauma of my misdeed remains. Clearly it worked it's magic on your lawn. I suspect it is a little too late in the season now as the growth slows with shorter days.​


> I also sprayed started a humic acid treatment (I have hard clay even after amending) and plan on doing monthly during the growing seasons.
> 
> November 1st
> I applied my winter application of 15-5-10 at 1 lb of nitrogen per 1000sq feet. Still mowing twice a week if I can. Applied second application of humic acid. I'm still trying to improve my stripe game lol...


Haven't considered the striping aspect but it sure looks great to me. We've had St Augustine better part of 8 years now and that stuff is like a bad 70's shag carpet. We are fortunate that our soil isn't a heavy clay.

I'll plan on following your lead here on the winter feeding.

Appreciate you and the details + pics offered up in response to my question.​


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## texas-ag-86

jchu said:


> I seed mine on Oct 26th. It has baby grass now, but all the leaves are falling down. I don't think I can step on those grass to rake it or blow it at this point, it will probably bad for the grass since the root is not established yet. I guess I will leave it this way for few more weeks, Hopefully it won't kill my grass. .


•​I put the seed down in the back yard on 6 OCT and it is already looking really nice in the areas where there were bare spots. It's hard to pick out among the existing St Augustine. I've started vacuuming leaves in the back yard and have lowered the cut height to 13/4" - want to stay ahead of the photosynthesis robbing leaf cover. From the data I've read about the SPF30, it has "an extensive" root system. You may be okay with blowing the leaves; I'd personally use a small test area to be sure.​•​Since we're sharing baby pics, here's a pic of our baby sprouts from the front yard. If you squint hard enough, you can just see the green popping out!​(photo taken today - planted 8 days ago)​•​
​


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## citizensauto

So, after failing miserably at my attempt to seed during the Texas grueling summer. I gave it another go, and i think it's coming along great. Below are pics, this is my 2nd mow....


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## texas-ag-86

citizensauto said:


> So, after failing miserably at my attempt to seed during the Texas grueling summer. I gave it another go, and i think it's coming along great. Below are pics, this is my 2nd mow....
> 
> ​
> ​


Looks great! Care to share some details? What region are you in in Texas? How many pounds per 1K of seed did you plant? Height of Cut? When did you plant? Fertilizer? Soil conditions?​Even with the St Augustine, I raise the cut height to 3" in the summer months. Like most jurisdictions, we are limited to watering 2x per week. The plants need every edge to survive the heat.​


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## gtd

RE: Winterizing the new grass / frost and freeze dates. The How To Gardner website data for my area shows typical frost date is Nov. 9 and typical freeze date as _____. So the ground must not freeze here in winter, usually. I put out weed killer/starter fertilizer yesterday because a lot of the new grass was a pale green. Needed nitrogen, right? My plan going forward is light nitrogen each week until the grass stops growing and water if it doesn't rain much. I'm in zone 7B, lots of rain and mild winters. Any red flags with these plans? Has anyone needed to mow all winter?


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## citizensauto

texas-ag-86 said:


> Looks great! Care to share some details? What region are you in in Texas? How many pounds per 1K of seed did you plant? Height of Cut? When did you plant? Fertilizer? Soil conditions?​Even with the St Augustine, I raise the cut height to 3" in the summer months. Like most jurisdictions, we are limited to watering 2x per week. The plants need every edge to survive the heat.​


Details are as follows;
- I am in Dallas, TX that puts me in Zone 8a
- HOC is currently 2 inches, I plan on being in the 2.75-3 range and even higher in the summer.
- Seeded 5lbs on September 25th. 
- I am using the N-Ext line for fertilizer & supplemental needs.(Humic, RGS, & AIR8). 
- Soil conditions - it appears to be a clay/loam mix, I did do an inch of compost prior to seeding. However, not sure about the soil analysis, I plan on doing a soil test Spring next year.


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## jeffcatton

gtd said:


> RE: Winterizing the new grass / frost and freeze dates. The How To Gardner website data for my area shows typical frost date is Nov. 9 and typical freeze date as _____. So the ground must not freeze here in winter, usually. I put out weed killer/starter fertilizer yesterday because a lot of the new grass was a pale green. Needed nitrogen, right? My plan going forward is light nitrogen each week until the grass stops growing and water if it doesn't rain much. I'm in zone 7B, lots of rain and mild winters. Any red flags with these plans? Has anyone needed to mow all winter?


@gtd LOL ... you have to cut all year once a week and twice in summer! oh, didn't I already mention that before you started ... oops, sorry. UREA keeps it growing too  ... in fact, I just put more down also with new seed (as long as the temp > 65). Love this stuff !

Have fun and enjoy your awesome grass all year round !

Jeff


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## jeffcatton

citizensauto said:


> So, after failing miserably at my attempt to seed during the Texas grueling summer. I gave it another go, and i think it's coming along great. Below are pics, this is my 2nd mow....


@citizensauto NICE WORK! Your yard looks awesome! Second attempt was much better during the non-100+ degree heat.


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## gtd

jeffcatton said:


> Have fun and enjoy your awesome grass all year round !


 @jeffcatton Jeff, I think you and others have managed expectations very well, actually. I got confused because I was watching YouTubes and none of those were about cool season grass in the South. I never mowed when we lived in Dallas .... too hot! I've found I enjoy mowing this time of year, though. I have the little 'courtyard' area of *** and my husband has the rest of the acre to mow. I know nothing about caring for a nice lawn, so I really appreciate all the info and encouragement here. And the jokes.


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## jeffcatton

gtd said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have fun and enjoy your awesome grass all year round !
> 
> 
> 
> @jeffcatton Jeff, I think you and others have managed expectations very well, actually. I got confused because I was watching YouTubes and none of those were about cool season grass in the South. I never mowed when we lived in Dallas .... too hot! I've found I enjoy mowing this time of year, though. I have the little 'courtyard' area of *** and my husband has the rest of the acre to mow. I know nothing about caring for a nice lawn, so I really appreciate all the info and encouragement here. And the jokes.
Click to expand...

@gtd Jokes, what jokes  The thing is, you both did all the hard work and will reap the benefits of it all ... nicely done. (1 acres = .15 hers, .85 his ... hmmmm, sounds right)


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## spartanlawn

It's been a struggle in SC. Probably mostly my doing. I have a brand new stand planted labor day weekend in my back yard. I have large hickory and oak trees. I would think my yard gets direct sunlight 15-20% of the day (a little more in winter) but shorter days probably keeps it relatively the same. Most of the beautiful results on here are coming from what looks to me too be full sun yards. My yard is just not as thick as these. I can see ground fairly significantly when I look down. Can anyone provide experience with what they are seeing with growing SPF30 in shades areas? I'll post some pictures after the rain stops. I'm thinking I might need to maintain at a much higher hoc but just curious what success anyone else might be having. Thanks


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## jeffcatton

spartanlawn said:
 

> It's been a struggle in SC. Probably mostly my doing. I have a brand new stand planted labor day weekend in my back yard. I have large hickory and oak trees. I would think my yard gets direct sunlight 15-20% of the day (a little more in winter) but shorter days probably keeps it relatively the same. Most of the beautiful results on here are coming from what looks to me too be full sun yards. My yard is just not as thick as these. I can see ground fairly significantly when I look down. Can anyone provide experience with what they are seeing with growing SPF30 in shades areas? I'll post some pictures after the rain stops. I'm thinking I might need to maintain at a much higher hoc but just curious what success anyone else might be having. Thanks


@spartanlawn It is thinner were I get ZERO direct sun during the day, not as thick and lush as the direct sunny areas. Attached are the sides of my yard and with houses so close, we get about 2-3 hrs of hot direct sun in the summer ... less in the winter (1-2 hrs) as the sun passes faster, between houses is thick where Bermuda is sparse to non-existent for my neighbors.


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## Captquin

@jeffcatton What's your fert schedule these days? I'm putting down .5lb N/ksqft each week. First time I've tried spoon feeding or the "blitz." Wondering how much and how long to keep going.


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## jeffcatton

Captquin said:


> @jeffcatton What's your fert schedule these days? I'm putting down .5lb N/ksqft each week. First time I've tried spoon feeding or the "blitz." Wondering how much and how long to keep going.


@Captquin I do this every 1-2 months as we are mostly clay. I put down 5 lbs for .25 acres. It only last for a week and you only need to put down if you want to keep the grass growing all year. To keep it green I put down Morganite IRON. I really like thick hunter green grass so I do this every couple months with both. You can put less and do more often also. I cut every 4 days right now to keep it well trimmed / striped.


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## spartanlawn

,@jeffcatton thank you! I appreciate it. My yard is looking very similar to your side yard so that is consistent. I think I might try to leave it longer 4 inches (tough right now with the leaf situation) and see what happens. It was suggested on other sites that might help the grass cope with less light. I'm ok with thinner (mulch I think is the alternative), but I'm jealous that the thicker grass requires less weed maintenance.


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## L337pcnoob

citizensauto said:


> So, after failing miserably at my attempt to seed during the Texas grueling summer. I gave it another go, and i think it's coming along great. Below are pics, this is my 2nd mow....


Man that's looking great! Sun has the color popping well!


----------



## L337pcnoob

texas-ag-86 said:


> August 1st
> I Used starter fertilizer once at seed, which may have been a waste since this grass takes a bit to germinate completely 14-28 days. I added another application of starter fertilizer at 30 days because we got rained out pretty bad and that most likely washed away the nutes. Because some areas grew better and faster than others, I reel mowed at 1.75-2 inches until all was even.
> 
> 
> 
> Your lawn looks great! I'm feeling like the 1.5 lbs per 1K will leave the back yard looking anemic. What rate did you use to seed? Sorry if that was addressed in an earlier post - I don't recall seeing any rates on other posts.​
> 
> 
> 
> October 1st
> This was about 2 months after seeding, day 60 ish I started spoon feeding pure urea (I was pretty aggressive here) I put down 1 lb of 46-0-0 per 2000 square feet every Saturday and mowed twice a week. That amount to .2 lb per 1000 sq feet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is aggressive. I did something similar with my original Tifway Bermuda a few years back and killed it - like overnight. It eventually rebounded but the emotional trauma of my misdeed remains. Clearly it worked it's magic on your lawn. I suspect it is a little too late in the season now as the growth slows with shorter days.​
> 
> 
> 
> I also sprayed started a humic acid treatment (I have hard clay even after amending) and plan on doing monthly during the growing seasons.
> 
> November 1st
> I applied my winter application of 15-5-10 at 1 lb of nitrogen per 1000sq feet. Still mowing twice a week if I can. Applied second application of humic acid. I'm still trying to improve my stripe game lol...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haven't considered the striping aspect but it sure looks great to me. We've had St Augustine better part of 8 years now and that stuff is like a bad 70's shag carpet. We are fortunate that our soil isn't a heavy clay.
> 
> I'll plan on following your lead here on the winter feeding.
> 
> Appreciate you and the details + pics offered up in response to my question.​
Click to expand...

If I were to rate lol... probably 5lbs lol. I was a paranoid first timer.


----------



## jeffcatton

spartanlawn said:


> ,@jeffcatton thank you! I appreciate it. My yard is looking very similar to your side yard so that is consistent. I think I might try to leave it longer 4 inches (tough right now with the leaf situation) and see what happens. It was suggested on other sites that might help the grass cope with less light. I'm ok with thinner (mulch I think is the alternative), but I'm jealous that the thicker grass requires less weed maintenance.


@spartanlawn I would not go 4", I was before and that means the grass would grow to 5 or 5.5 in 4 days ... way to long and goes limp. I am now at 2.5" cut with nice striping, frim straight up blades and it grows to 3" to 3.25" before cutting (4 days). You should not cut more that a 1/3 of the grass blade at one time with mulching (will get heavy mulch if you cut too much at once). Don't bag, you need to keep feeding from the mulch - reuse it as fertilizer 

You're right, I rarely have a weed in the grass anymore, especially this time of year when with Bermuda weeds would be green all over those yards ... now I get more weeds in the gardens than the grass.

The above is my opinion and from my past experience, just take it as that and you can do whatever you like best.


----------



## jeffcatton

@spartanlawn


----------



## texas-ag-86

> Details are as follows;
> - I am in Dallas, TX that puts me in Zone 8a
> - HOC is currently 2 inches, I plan on being in the 2.75-3 range and even higher in the summer.
> - Seeded 5lbs on September 25th.
> - I am using the N-Ext line for fertilizer & supplemental needs.(Humic, RGS, & AIR8).
> - Soil conditions - it appears to be a clay/loam mix, I did do an inch of compost prior to seeding. However, not sure about the soil analysis, I plan on doing a soil test Spring next year.


Thanks so much for those details.​


----------



## billmajure

jeffcatton said:


> gtd said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Winterizing the new grass / frost and freeze dates. The How To Gardner website data for my area shows typical frost date is Nov. 9 and typical freeze date as _____. So the ground must not freeze here in winter, usually. I put out weed killer/starter fertilizer yesterday because a lot of the new grass was a pale green. Needed nitrogen, right? My plan going forward is light nitrogen each week until the grass stops growing and water if it doesn't rain much. I'm in zone 7B, lots of rain and mild winters. Any red flags with these plans? Has anyone needed to mow all winter?
> 
> 
> 
> @gtd LOL ... you have to cut all year once a week and twice in summer! oh, didn't I already mention that before you started ... oops, sorry. UREA keeps it growing too  ... in fact, I just put more down also with new seed (as long as the temp > 65). Love this stuff !
> 
> Have fun and enjoy your awesome grass all year round !
> 
> Jeff
Click to expand...

Thanks for that mowing frequency info! I have been wondering about that. I hate to mow, so I'm using a Robomow. It'll be easy to program it for that cutting schedule. - I am in the Jackson, Mississippi suburbs, zone 8b, so this is an experiment for me. Planted seed in late September. Looks great so far, really lush, - but "summer is coming" (_Game of Thrones somber reading_). Looks like the most important thing is to water a lot more than with the Centipede that I originally had. - Thanks for all of the tips. I had never heard of this hybrid before reading about it here. You all have been very helpful!


----------



## w0lfe

Anyone know how this holds up with a couple large dogs?


----------



## Green

w0lfe said:


> Anyone know how this holds up with a couple large dogs?


Like Pete from GCI said in a fairly recent video, Bluegrass can fill in small damaged areas fairly fast, but if your dog digs holes, it's not going to repair from that.


----------



## klsmith259

@jeffcatton and others, did you continue to fertilize/feed during winter or at what time/temperature did you stop? I put seed down late September this year and it's filling in good but I have a few areas that need some work. I looked up the weather for your area and my area (ATL) and our temps are pretty close to each other with yours being a few degrees warmer on average.

For others - Just a warning that this does not stand a chance against dog urine at least for my one lab. He has dragon fire piss. He goes on the mulch most of the time but when he is able to sneak to the grass it will kill it. As for play/traffic even with it being new and not fully matured it seems to hold up great so far.


----------



## jeffcatton

klsmith259 said:


> @jeffcatton and others, did you continue to fertilize/feed during winter or at what time/temperature did you stop? I put seed down late September this year and it's filling in good but I have a few areas that need some work. I looked up the weather for your area and my area (ATL) and our temps are pretty close to each other with yours being a few degrees warmer on average.
> 
> For others - Just a warning that this does not stand a chance against dog urine at least for my one lab. He has dragon fire piss. He goes on the mulch most of the time but when he is able to sneak to the grass it will kill it. As for play/traffic even with it being new and not fully matured it seems to hold up great so far.


@klsmith259 "Fire Piss" LOL  My male dog pees on the grass with no browning at all. Female dogs have some kind of acidic nature to theirs and can burn the grass - I heard that a cap of vinegar in water neutralizes it .... please don't take my word for it, I never tried this.

As for fertilizer, just now I put down 10lbs of Urea 46-0-0. I do fertilizer every other month even through the winter. As for seeding, as long as the ground temp > 65 the KBG will grow - we do get a strong sun here even though the air may be cooler/up and down. The nice rain coming this week will be a welcomed sight for sure, grow baby grow - has been dry as a bone here (for months) :lol: .

I hope that helps

Jeff


----------



## klsmith259

It does. I added a picture to my post to show the progress/state currently. I did have to take 2 weeks off with no fertilizer or any interaction as I was out of town for an emergency. I've been putting down .25lbs of N per 1k every week until that break so that was for 2 weeks. I just put down .5lbs/N per 1k total using starter fertilizer last week when I returned. The left side of the yard doesn't get a lot of sun due to the neighbors' spruce/evergreens and when we had storms I had a bit of a wash out. Those are places that I am trying to get to fill in more as you can see the right side is pretty lush since it gets a good bit of sun.

My dog is a male dog. He's goofy and has always burnt the grass (even fescue). I've tried quite a few things and none of them really make a difference. He needs to drink more water but will not regardless if I give it to him filtered, tap, etc. He will drink from the hose though.


----------



## jeffcatton

@klsmith259 Your grass is coming along and it will still grow with good temperatures. I cut every 4 days through the winter and every 3 days in summer.

Attached are some pics today and the seed is still growing here ... put down another 25 lbs of new seed over the last month.


----------



## jeffcatton

klsmith259 said:


> It does. I added a picture to my post to show the progress/state currently. I did have to take 2 weeks off with no fertilizer or any interaction as I was out of town for an emergency. I've been putting down .25lbs of N per 1k every week until that break so that was for 2 weeks. I just put down .5lbs/N per 1k total using starter fertilizer last week when I returned. The left side of the yard doesn't get a lot of sun due to the neighbors' spruce/evergreens and when we had storms I had a bit of a wash out. Those are places that I am trying to get to fill in more as you can see the right side is pretty lush since it gets a good bit of sun.
> 
> My dog is a male dog. He's goofy and has always burnt the grass (even fescue). I've tried quite a few things and none of them really make a difference. He needs to drink more water but will not regardless if I give it to him filtered, tap, etc. He will drink from the hose though.


@klsmith259 I had areas that also take time to grow and I had to put down some good soil and more seed, several times due to washout also, it happens. Keep at it and it will catch and stick there, just time needed.


----------



## Captquin

I have a thread in the cool season forum for some HGT and SPF-30 test pots. Noticed something interesting yesterday and wanted to share. Looks like there is some wilting in the HGT and blended pots, but none in the SPF-30 pot.

Note: The overseed this year was a blend of the two and there's no noticeable wilting. Also looks like the wilting is in the middle of both pots, which strikes me as odd.

Not sure it has anything to do with HGT, but I thought it was interesting enough to share. See second pic.


----------



## L337pcnoob

Well I have very unfortunate news.... 2000$ later, I I come home and find utility flags and paint all over my yard... oil/gas pipe line. So frustrating after all of the work put into this... 811 says the utility company will compensate for any damages done but I foresee me having to haggle for it or hire a lawyer... what a drag.. picture coming soon it's dark out right now.


----------



## jeffcatton

L337pcnoob said:


> Well I have very unfortunate news.... 2000$ later, I I come home and find utility flags and paint all over my yard... oil/gas pipe line. So frustrating after all of the work put into this... 811 says the utility company will compensate for any damages done but I foresee me having to haggle for it or hire a lawyer... what a drag.. picture coming soon it's dark out right now.


@L337pcnoob Oh no ... your yard was so beautiful ... good thing you have pictures but your effort will be needed to save all your hard work you both put into the front yard - wait until at least 65 in spring. I hope they cover all costs including your labor time to fix it. Good luck and sorry to hear you are having to go through this.


----------



## Green

L337pcnoob said:


> Well I have very unfortunate news.... 2000$ later, I I come home and find utility flags and paint all over my yard... oil/gas pipe line. So frustrating after all of the work put into this... 811 says the utility company will compensate for any damages done but I foresee me having to haggle for it or hire a lawyer... what a drag.. picture coming soon it's dark out right now.


I hate when that happens. Depending on how much they have to tear up, you might be able to transplant some plugs as part of your repair, because starting cool season grass in Spring and having it succeed in an area with a hot, humid climate is tough. Don't let them respond with a warm season grass as part of their compensation.


----------



## anthonybilotta

Anyone ever plant this stuff directly into Augustine ? My st Augustine has stopped growing for the year, but with soil temps in the 50-60s all winter, I feel like the SPF30 would be able to grow pretty well.

I hate my St Augustine


----------



## jeffcatton

anthonybilotta said:


> Anyone ever plant this stuff directly into Augustine ? My st Augustine has stopped growing for the year, but with soil temps in the 50-60s all winter, I feel like the SPF30 would be able to grow pretty well.
> 
> I hate my St Augustine


@anthonybilotta Hi Anthony, you need to kill off the St. Augustine first, chop it down, and prepare the ground. Several have shared their process here in the forum (@L337pcnoob , @thompwa). For SPF-30 they say it should be 65 - 80 for the germination, where you are you should be good this time of year. Just ask here for any help, they are awesome and willing to help out. As for me, I killed off my Bermuda grass, cut it to ground/dirt (bagged it all), I did not rototill it, top dressed only in spots needed, and seeding in fall.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9273&start=160


----------



## L337pcnoob

jeffcatton said:


> L337pcnoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I have very unfortunate news.... 2000$ later, I I come home and find utility flags and paint all over my yard... oil/gas pipe line. So frustrating after all of the work put into this... 811 says the utility company will compensate for any damages done but I foresee me having to haggle for it or hire a lawyer... what a drag.. picture coming soon it's dark out right now.
> 
> 
> 
> @L337pcnoob Oh no ... your yard was so beautiful ... good thing you have pictures but your effort will be needed to save all your hard work you both put into the front yard - wait until at least 65 in spring. I hope they cover all costs including your labor time to fix it. Good luck and sorry to hear you are having to go through this.
Click to expand...

Sucks because I can't mow or really do anything.. no luck figuring out the company just yet.


----------



## jeffcatton

L337pcnoob said:


>


@L337pcnoob Oh that is not so bad, I was thinking they DUG IT UP on you. Was this for your neighbor, new pool or something? Mow around them for now I would think. At least it is not ruined.

https://texags.com/forums/61/topics/2558386

or contact -> https://www.texas811.org/


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## Captquin

Orange is usually a gas line. No big deal if they're just marking for visibility.

But if they're marking to dig it up and put in a new line...


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## klsmith259

I'm going to guess it's your neighbor and their cable/phone company since the orange flags are cable/network markings and they extend on their property line to the side of the house with the cable box termination. If it is the cable/network company they normally don't tear too much up sometimes they even use a spade type tool to bury the cable which is no where near like digging a trench or having a ditch witch come in.

ATT is infamous for using this and burying the fiber to the house about 2 inches deep using an edging planting tool like this https://www.amazon.com/Bully-Tools-82500-12-Gauge-Fiberglass/dp/B002YOJSYO

As for the markings red is power, yellow is gas at least here in Georgia.


----------



## klsmith259

Slowly filling in. I did a little damage this weekend to help the left side drainage issue that I am having. I'm going to throw down some seed that I have left over and hope for the best but I'm not worried about it too much. I do have a little weed pressure but I haven't put down any pre-m yet. I plan to do so around February or March on 3/4 of the yard outside of the areas that are a little weak (left side) in case I put down more seed when the temperatures start to warm up.

This is a 2inch cut with the rotary mower.


----------



## jeffcatton

klsmith259 said:


> Slowly filling in. I did a little damage this weekend to help the left side drainage issue that I am having. I'm going to throw down some seed that I have left over and hope for the best but I'm not worried about it too much. I do have a little weed pressure but I haven't put down any pre-m yet. I plan to do so around February or March on 3/4 of the yard outside of the areas that are a little weak (left side) in case I put down more seed when the temperatures start to warm up.
> 
> @klsmith259 coming along nicely. I am sure you can't wait for spring to fill in the left side there. Enjoy your new yard!


----------



## texas-ag-86

.​.​
Outsidepride.com has a page for soil temps: Min Soil temps​
Yes, I over seeded in the St Augustine in early October. No, I don't recommend trying to seed over it.

I'm in a similar situation (just north of Austin) wanting to jettison the St Augustine. With all the prep work in late September for the fist seeding of the SPF30, the St Augustine is, unfortunately, looking healthy and still green. Everyone else's lawns have already gone dormant, though I suspect that was due to the lower than normal rainfall and my "higher than average frequency" of watering for the new seed.

The over seeding I did in early October only worked in the areas where the St Augustine was already thinned out. The dense areas kept the seed from germinating.

Our Parks & Rec just scrapped the playing fields clear and planted Winter Rye; they do this every year and the grass is fully established by March for the spring soccer season. I'm taking that as a positive sign it's okay to plant the SPF30 now.

The plan is the heavily dethatch the St Augustine with this Power Rake from Home Depot:
.​







.​in order to give the new seed a chance to get established.

My concern is ensuring the grass has a long runway to get well established before July~August temps arrive. Hence my anxiousness to get it seeded sooner than later.

It will be very interesting to see how it holds up for you in Houston.



anthonybilotta said:


> Anyone ever plant this stuff directly into Augustine ? My st Augustine has stopped growing for the year, but with soil temps in the 50-60s all winter, I feel like the SPF30 would be able to grow pretty well.
> 
> I hate my St Augustine


----------



## spartanlawn

I found this article on fertilizing bluegrass. I thought it was very understandable for a lawn novice like me. For the SPF folks, do you think this needs adjusting?
https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass-seed/bluegrass-seed/fertilizing-bluegrass/


----------



## ABC123

spartanlawn said:


> I found this article on fertilizing bluegrass. I thought it was very understandable for a lawn novice like me. For the SPF folks, do you think this needs adjusting?
> https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass-seed/bluegrass-seed/fertilizing-bluegrass/


I think it would be very different as your growing season looks to be about 9 months long.

.2lbs N bi weekly would work with urea, but if you used a slow release you could do .4lb/n/m a month and skip the nitrogen blitz in the fall.

If you do a foliar spray it would be more effective but it would require weekly applications of .1lb/n/m. Not sure if your up to that but its a bit of extra work that most wouldnt want to do.


----------



## spartanlawn

@ABC123 thank you! Would the growing season be late February through late October? It Is still green right now but I haven't need to cut but once every couple of weeks. We had some teens a couple of weeks back and it looked a little nipped.


----------



## Cdub5_

Man I'm so excited to see how well our hybrid bluegrass looks/performs this next growing season. Only a couple more months...


----------



## texas-ag-86

.​Just Veritcut/Dethatched the back yard to remove the St Augustine in prep for seeding.
I did this back in March (2020) before the growing season.
.​​.​This is the result of less than a years worth of growth (about a quarter of what was removed in March):
.​​.​Finished up with a final cut at ½" with the reel mower. Really want to avoid using chemicals to kill off the St Augustine.
The idea is to ensure the SPF30 seed doesn't have to compete with the St Augustine. The over seed I did in October didn't work out. The rhizome mat was too dense in most areas of the lawn for any appreciable growth of the SPF30. However, the areas that were bare filled in nicely (used 1 lb. per 1000 sq ft). 
.​​.​The plan is to use the 3 lb. per 1000 sq ft recommend by Outdoor Pride for the upcoming seeding this week. Dropped a bag of Milorganite down just before we experienced a rare snow fall (first in over 12 years here) and the ground should be nice and plump with moisture after the melt. Forecast looks good into next week for temps back into the 60s. Fingers crossed.
.​


----------



## ABC123

spartanlawn said:


> @ABC123 thank you! Would the growing season be late February through late October? It Is still green right now but I haven't need to cut but once every couple of weeks. We had some teens a couple of weeks back and it looked a little nipped.


It all depends on the temperature but id say mid march through mid novemeber. That could be 8 or 9 months depending on the forecast.

The soil temp can determine what will be happening to the plant. But with it being a GMO it might not react the same as these below.

90F Shoot growth ceases.
77F Root growth ceases.
70F Maximum temperature for root growth of any consequence.
70F Time to plant grasses in late summer.
60-75F Optimum temperature for shoot growth.
50-65F Optimum temperature for root growth.
40F Shoot growth ceases.
33F Root growth ceases.

So when its slow like you described I would slow down on the N unless rust is a issue.


----------



## spartanlawn

@ABC123 incredibly helpful information. Thank you!!


----------



## jeffcatton

Everyone is so quiet here 

So ... is everyone ready to get rid of the cold temps and start seeding in a few weeks? I got my new KBG seed, nitro, and Docs fertilizer all ready, I can hardly wait for the warmer temps! Cheers!


----------



## texas-ag-86

jeffcatton said:


> Everyone is so quiet here


Hibernating ...


----------



## gtd

jeffcatton said:


> Everyone is so quiet here


Just ordered some more seed. A lot of my grass in the test plot has been yellow for a while now. Since it seemed to be in a pattern, I've decided it was something to do with the drop spreader calibration. Also will definitely get a soil test this time. I'm hoping the green clumps all over the place are from spreading grass.

So, what product do y'all use for spoon feeding nitrogen/urea? And for humic acid treatments? Am I right that I won't fertilize in the spring but wait until summer? I know I need to figure out how to get the yellow sections green, so I'll use the rest of my Scotts Liquid Turf Builder/Ready to Spray Lawn Food 29-0-3 ... slowly, slowly with my heart in my throat. :?


----------



## jeffcatton

@gtd I have the following, ready for temp to get over the 60/65 ... I use a hand spreader and walk it.

(first this) Outsidepride SPF-30 Heat & Drought Tolerant Hybrid Bluegrass Lawn Grass Seed - 10 LBS

Super Juice All in One Soluble Supplement Lawn Fertilizer
Nitroform 39-0-0 Slow Release Nitrogen Fertilizer "Greenway Biotech Brand"
(for a booster) DC Earth Nitrogen Fertilizer Urea 46-0-0, 10 Pounds
BioAdvanced 704100B Bermudagrass Control for Lawns, Weed Killer Spray, 32-Ounce, Ready-to-Spray
(lastly) Ironite for deep green


----------



## gtd

jeffcatton said:


> @gtd I have the following...


Thank you!


----------



## L337pcnoob

Good time to spoon feed?😂😂


----------



## thompwa

10% off at Outside Pride today for anyone wanting to buy a little more SPF-30 for a spring seed. Code: SALE


----------



## spartanlawn

SC has low 60s in the forecast for this coming week. Thinking about dropping the first fertilizer for 2021 and possibly a round of tenacity. Too soon? Too late? Looking at a soil temp map that says we are 38deg right now.


----------



## Green

spartanlawn said:


> SC has low 60s in the forecast for this coming week. Thinking about dropping the first fertilizer for 2021 and possibly a round of tenacity. Too soon? Too late? Looking at a soil temp map that says we are 38deg right now.


Too early. Check your actual soil temps, and/or wait until you've done at least a few good weekly mows in a row.


----------



## spartanlawn

Thank you! @Green


----------



## CoastalFellow

Hello everyone! My first post here on the forum, and I immediately took notice to this thread as I would like to transition to SPF-30 in the coastal South Carolina region. I currently have a centipede lawn in the front and back, but am not pleased with the grass, as I've always been a fan of the bluer hue blades such as KBG. With that being said, I did want to experiment with the SPF30, as I read here that many have had success with the grass in hot climates, both in full sun and shade (my back is shade, front is full sun). I overseeded my centipede with annual rye this winter, as I knew I'd be making a switch and didn't mind stressing the centipede all winter. With that being said, I had a few questions which I hope those with SPF30 experience could assist with (sorry in advance if these are really silly questions):

-Should I kill off all of the old centipede/rye, top coat with sand and compost then seed? My inclination says "yes," but an overseed-type scenario would be a bit easier if possible.

-Is it OK to sow in April? I saw some folks recommended a Fall sowing, however, given the rye/centipede situation, I wanted to attempt a spring seeding. I know it's a risk, but should it be an absolute deterrent?

-Any reason 90+ degree temps here in coastal South Carolina would be different that 100+ temps I've seen the grass perform well in Texas? I have an irrigation system with no local restrictions, so water isn't an issue.

-Should I set my passion for the bluegrass texture and color aside and just scrap it and do Zoysia sod?

Sorry for the lengthy first post, but I want to ensure I have all my ducks in a row for a mono-thread SPF30 lawn in the South and would like to start the process sooner rather than later.


----------



## MasterMech

Humidity would be my concern, as most cool-season grasses tolerate one or the other, (Heat/Humidity) and suffer in both.

Watching with interest.


----------



## L337pcnoob

Soil temps are around 55-60 here in dfw. First split application of prodiamine (pre-emergent) going down. Plan to do another when soil temps hit 65 degrees or 30-45 day later. Cant wait to see how everyone's new lawns green up.


----------



## dontfearthecarolina

jeffcatton said:


> Everyone is so quiet here
> 
> So ... is everyone ready to get rid of the cold temps and start seeding in a few weeks? I got my new KBG seed, nitro, and Docs fertilizer all ready, I can hardly wait for the warmer temps! Cheers!


I got some spf-30 and some black beauty high traffic. Seeding this week. Lots of shade from oak trees in my yard. We'll see how it goes!


----------



## jeffcatton

Hi All!

I put down my magic blue pill (39-0-0 / 49-0-0), preemergent and Ironite a week ago, and then some new seed this past weekend. We have good temps, strong sun during the day, and hopefully rain later this week. First cut is now done, keeping at 2.75" cut for couple weeks to even the grass height and then ease up to 3.25-3.5" for a taller grass in the higher heat. This grass will need to be cut twice a week (every 3-4 days) for the next several months and then slow down (raising the height during high heat).

I hope to see many others amazing success this year, cant wait, please share your pics along the way!


----------



## spartanlawn

I had a lot of PA and chick weed surprise me. That stuff shows up quick. I say that because it's flowering like crazy here I think. I'm not sure if it was there all winter. The clover I addressed last year has not rebounded. I think my SPF30 is under/mixed (I think the leaf is a darker green than the bright PA). I dropped tenacity two days ago. The rain stopped and things are getting dry in SC. Mild temps make me think it's still moist an inch down. Probably going to irrigate tomorrow morning. Rain is back in the forecast for this week. I dropped 28-0-11 two days ago too. Going to try to fertilize every two weeks through May. 2nd tenacity application in 3 weeks. Probably going to give Certainty a pass mid May.


----------



## L337pcnoob

jeffcatton said:


> Hi All!
> 
> I put down my magic blue pill (39-0-0 / 49-0-0), preemergent and Ironite a week ago, and then some new seed this past weekend. We have good temps, strong sun during the day, and hopefully rain later this week. First cut is now done, keeping at 2.75" cut for couple weeks to even the grass height and then ease up to 3.25-3.5" for a taller grass in the higher heat. This grass will need to be cut twice a week (every 3-4 days) for the next several months and then slow down (raising the height during high heat).
> 
> I hope to see many others amazing success this year, cant wait, please share your pics along the way!


Jeff.. You're back! And looking amazing.


----------



## jeffcatton

L337pcnoob said:


> Jeff.. You're back! And looking amazing.


LOL ... I have done 2 cuts already and 3rd will be tomorrow ... the grass is loving this spring  !


----------



## L337pcnoob

jeffcatton said:


> L337pcnoob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jeff.. You're back! And looking amazing.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL ... I have done 2 cuts already and 3rd will be tomorrow ... the grass is loving this spring  !
Click to expand...



I need to start getting ready as well, if weather permits I may give it a mow to vacuum up leaves and maybe spoon feed some urea. I've already sprayed a split app of prodiamine. Neighbors saint Augustine still sleeping.


----------



## Sleepy116

Redid my lawn in Oct 2020 recent pics are from today


----------



## jeffcatton

Sleepy116 said:


> Redid my lawn in Oct 2020 recent pics are from today


WOW ... that is amazing Sleepy! You were not sleeping last year at all. You and your family must be so happy and proud of what you accomplished, love the high camera pic of the front - yours is all a beautiful Green!

The play area looks incredibly better, soft on the feet to play.

Great job and thanks for sharing. Do share what you change to improve it and manage going forward ... it helps everyone, thanks.


----------



## klsmith259

Yard is coming along. I'm hoping that it will be able to survive the summer heat as it touts. It has filled in quite a bit since last year. I re-seeded the left side where I dug out drainage after the initial seeding. I'm awaiting its germination with the known expectation that it will be at minimum a month or two before it really fills out.

Mid December 2020


Early March 2021 I was gone for a few months. Due to the topsoil there was quite a bit of weeds that came up. I sprayed with 24D and sedgehammer and since have cut the grass.




Mid March - Current state with some POA Annua and remaining weeds. On the left side is the re-seed. Hoping it turns out as expected early spring/summer. The one dark patch is also a re-seed with additional soil. I had a 75-100ft oak tree removed and grass was growing but I felt the need to add additional topsoil and seed it again.

Yard is currently cut at 2inches with rotary mower.

I'm going to be gone for a few weeks or longer so my wife will be in charge of watering.... wish me luck. :lol:


----------



## jeffcatton

klsmith259 said:


> Mid March - Current state with some POA Annua and remaining weeds. On the left side is the re-seed. Hoping it turns out as expected early spring/summer. The one dark patch is also a re-seed with additional soil. I had a 75-100ft oak tree removed and grass was growing but I felt the need to add additional topsoil and seed it again.
> 
> Yard is currently cut at 2inches with rotary mower.
> 
> I'm going to be gone for a few weeks or longer so my wife will be in charge of watering.... wish me luck. :lol:


@klsmith259 Congrats ... what a huge difference a little time and work can do ... looks awesome .. nice work! You did a really good job on getting it a lot thicker. I am really interested on how that 2" height cut works with weeds, etc. Got mine at 3.25" right now, have to cut every 3 or 4 days or I end up cutting to much off, it does keep the weeds down though.


----------



## klsmith259

I would love to spoon feed it nitrogen as I did in the fall/winter but I won't be home and I can't cut it to help promote spreading. I'm planning on taking it slow, feed it a balanced fertilizer, and keep up with it the best that I can given the current situation. At 2 inches I have to cut it every couple of days. It will be back up to 4-6 inches in no time and I'll have to reset again. This coming fall is when I think it will be established or in good shape since it will be coming up on a year since it was seeded.


----------



## jeffcatton

klsmith259 said:


> I would love to spoon feed it nitrogen as I did in the fall/winter but I won't be home and I can't cut it to help promote spreading. I'm planning on taking it slow, feed it a balanced fertilizer, and keep up with it the best that I can given the current situation. At 2 inches I have to cut it every couple of days. It will be back up to 4-6 inches in no time and I'll have to reset again. This coming fall is when I think it will be established or in good shape since it will be coming up on a year since it was seeded.


Good point if you are going to be away for a long period. It is my 3rd summer and I have learned a lot in the last 2 years and still altering my control plans for the neighbors Bermuda. I got this new Bermuda killer that will not harm my KBG  .. first time trying it this year. I cannot use it for 2 months as I put down more seed to thicken it up more and fill in the patch areas this year. It takes time to get it all right, but it is fun.

Pics from a few moments ago ... ( LOL reading the bottle label, is Bermuda a WEED  )


----------



## dontfearthecarolina

SPF-30 overseeded onto st Augustine... yea or nay? My front yard is east facing with lots of tall post oaks with a high canopy. Would be nice to get that all year green.


----------



## jeffcatton

dontfearthecarolina said:


> SPF-30 overseeded onto st Augustine... yea or nay? My front yard is east facing with lots of tall post oaks with a high canopy. Would be nice to get that all year green.


@dontfearthecarolina I would recommend to always kill off the current dominant grass, and I trust St Augustine is very dominant over *** and would also shade it out. My thoughts on this and suggestion only.


----------



## grassgrassgrass

Thanks for an amazing thread, everyone! I just got a new house in Dallas, and I want to try SPF-30. I realize it's better to seed in Fall but do you think id have success just filling in some bare spots around the lawn with it if I planted now? I have St augustine and there are a few dirt patches I want to fill in. I plan on starting over in Fall of 2021, but yeah, I'm hoping to try out some seed in trouble spots now.

Thank you!


----------



## jeffcatton

grassgrassgrass said:


> Thanks for an amazing thread, everyone! I just got a new house in Dallas, and I want to try SPF-30. I realize it's better to seed in Fall but do you think id have success just filling in some bare spots around the lawn with it if I planted now? I have St augustine and there are a few dirt patches I want to fill in. I plan on starting over in Fall of 2021, but yeah, I'm hoping to try out some seed in trouble spots now.
> 
> Thank you!


@grassgrassgrass Welcome! It is the perfect time of year to start seeding, about 65 and no frost in the forecast. If you do it in the fall, be sure to do it 1 month before first frost (Oct ish) and temp will be > 65. Get a small amount and try it now in those spots. Be sure to use some starter fertilizer and add a little dirt if the bare spots have none so you can sow in the seed. Keep it watered each day and it will sprout in ~2 weeks or less.


----------



## klsmith259

I agree and also I have seen sprouts as soon as 7 days but the time varies and others will take longer. That said, it takes a while for this grass to start to spread and also grow vertically. Don't worry if you don't see it taking off like wild fire.

You may also want to get a planter/tray and grow a test patch like a sod square to see if you like it. It would give you an idea of what your lawn will be like. The other benefit is you can use that to plug spots later if desired.


----------



## grassgrassgrass

I'm just so excited! @jeffcatton I'll be sure to do the 'restart' around that time - thank you! I wish there was an easy way to start fresh from St Aug without having to use RoundUp...but having something like your lawn would be worth it!

@klsmith259 great idea about growing a tray - I'll definitely do that. I'm an avid gardener and I just turned off my grow light for the season, so now I know what I'll use it for!


----------



## Sleepy116

Mowing year round


----------



## jeffcatton

Sleepy116 said:


> Mowing year round


Such a Nice Deep Green color, and love the strips!


----------



## cityofoaks

What does this hybrid look like at the tuft level? Having a hard time getting a definite ID for this, seeing people's online photos some looks like lime green KBG, some looks like poa triv to me and some photos look like standard KBG.......all claiming to be SPF-30.

I threw some of this down in a few test areas last fall and I got all kinds of stuff growing out of it. Trying to figure out which one is the actual hybrid......so far I am glad I didn't use this on anybody else's yard as I would owe them a reno. Got it from Outside Pride and the seed tag seemed OK. Has anybody had problems with this seed having a ton of poa t in it?


----------



## jeffcatton

cityofoaks said:


> What does this hybrid look like at the tuft level? Having a hard time getting a definite ID for this, seeing people's online photos some looks like lime green KBG, some looks like poa triv to me and some photos look like standard KBG.......all claiming to be SPF-30.
> 
> I threw some of this down in a few test areas last fall and I got all kinds of stuff growing out of it. Trying to figure out which one is the actual hybrid......so far I am glad I didn't use this on anybody else's yard as I would owe them a reno. Got it from Outside Pride and the seed tag seemed OK. Has anybody had problems with this seed having a ton of poa t in it?


@cityofoaks I have been using KBG-SPF30 for a few years now in Texas, can you help me out on what you are asking for "*tuft level*"? When I first put KBG down, I did get other garbage/weeds as I disturbed the soil. This was very easily corrected once the KBG matured a few months later. I have not mixed anything else with my KBG as there was not need here for me to do that. Help me understand why would you want to, what application area are you doing this for (under trees, shade only, very high traffic, etc)?

Attached is the seed bag tag and pic of the grass. How else can we help to show it is KBG and is growing very well here?


----------



## cityofoaks

By tuft I mean if you pulled a single plant and viewed from the side does it identify in an identical way to KBG or something else? Like the leaf structure, the ligule and vernation of the leaf blades, rhizomes but no stolons, color, etc.. Usually the universities have this info for each species but this is new enough there is not a lot of that around I can find for this, or it is so close to KBG that it would be identical in these regards.

That photo is very helpful though, thank you, it does appear to have a lighter green color than standard kbg. My seed tag is the same as yours. I am testing this seed to see if it is suitable for commercial use in Eastern NC, which I believe it will based on it working for ya'll in TX. Gonna see how it goes over the summer, if there is Poa Triv mixed in with my stands it will be obvious pretty soon when it gets hot and I will report back. Thanks.


----------



## Captquin

I have it in a blend with Barenbrug HGT for my yard. Also have test pot of each by itself for summer testing. I saw a seedhead in my SPF-30 pot the other day and closely examined the plant. Plant has folded vernation, single midrib, and boat tip. No ligule, really. No stolons; rhizomes only.

The seedhead was a bit different. It was a very young plant but seedhead itself was tightly packed together. Plant pulled easy, but most new plants do. Had a noticeable ligule. Cleary different than I could find elsewehere in the test pot. Conclusion is that it was Poa A. Which is sadly plentiful here.

Hope that helps.


----------



## spartanlawn

@cityofoaks @jeffcatton @Captquin

I had a lot of poa t and poa a. If you look at my post from last year I suspected I got a batch of kbg with poa t. The poa t grew very fast and looked like gross lime green spaghetti in my front yard. I sent samples to clemson who confirmed poa t. I didn't think poa t was supposed to be in my area of sc. More reason to suspect outside pride (op sells poa t too). Aug '20 I redid my back yard and right now poa a showed up like crazy. I suspected I had poa a because it threw up a seed head in late February. I'll attach some pictures this week. Kbg is a dark green in its second season. The initial germ was not a dark green for me, more of a medium/true green. I think I have had very good luck attacking poa a and poa t with tenacity. Clemson recommended I continue with tenacity as it seemed to beat them back. Clemson also recommended a new, but very expensive, selective called poa out. Lastly, I did use certainty last year to really knock back the poa t and I don't think it did too much damage to my spf. I may use it again this year, haven't decided. Continued to stick with tenacity at this point.


----------



## cityofoaks

spartanlawn said:


> @cityofoaks @jeffcatton @Captquin
> 
> I had a lot of poa t and poa a. If you look at my post from last year I suspected I got a batch of kbg with poa t. The poa t grew very fast and looked like gross lime green spaghetti in my front yard. I sent samples to clemson who confirmed poa t. I didn't think poa t was supposed to be in my area of sc. More reason to suspect outside pride (op sells poa t too). Aug '20 I redid my back yard and right now poa a showed up like crazy. I suspected I had poa a because it threw up a seed head in late February. I'll attach some pictures this week. Kbg is a dark green in its second season. The initial germ was not a dark green for me, more of a medium/true green. I think I have had very good luck attacking poa a and poa t with tenacity. Clemson recommended I continue with tenacity as it seemed to beat them back. Clemson also recommended a new, but very expensive, selective called poa out. Lastly, I did use certainty last year to really knock back the poa t and I don't think it did too much damage to my spf. I may use it again this year, haven't decided. Continued to stick with tenacity at this point.


Thanks, that is what I was hoping wasn't the case but felt it probably was. I legitimately never have seen this SPF-30 in person before so I wasn't sure if it resembled Poa T or not and I was just misidentifying it. It is so much that around 25% of the coverage is straight Poa T, and this is in a highly managed area with zero history of it. I saved some of the seed thankfully so I am gonna throw some in a few pots and see what happens and report back. Debating whether to try and manage it or just let it go and see what happens at this point, fortunately this is some of my own property and not a customer.......

Wonder if it is that "improved" Poa T they use on golf courses sometimes..... :lol:


----------



## spartanlawn

This is my backyard. You can see the variation caused by poa a/spf mix. My strategy is to knock back poa a with tenacity. Continue to fertilize to encourage spf to take back those spots. It's possible I still have some poa t from last year in my front yard. If so, it doesn't appear affected by the tenacity so I'm not sure if it's only vulnerable in its first year. Hence I'm considering certainty.


----------



## jeffcatton

Found some interesting information about KBG, what to watch for and how to prevent it - Brown Patch Disease in Kentucky Lawns!

http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agcomm/pubs/id/id112/id112.htm


----------



## pricezach555

Hello,

I came across this thread about a month ago and decided on picking SPF-30. I put out the seed 20 days ago and have a few concerns with the seed. I have two types of grass showing up and I can definitely tell which one is the SPF-30. I have a thick bladed grass coming up as well as the thin bladed SPF-30 coming up. I would say there is more of this thick bladed grass that I have no idea what it is. I am attaching pictures of both so I can get some insight of what this is.


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## Spammage

@pricezach555 looks like baby crabgrass IMO.


----------



## Captquin

I have some test pots in another thread with SPF30 and HGT. Wanted to share what I noticed today.

For some reason, I decided to look underneath and noticed something interesting. The pots with SPF-30 (solo and blend) seemed to have more roots coming out through the drain hole.

Maybe it puts out deeper roots which makes it more drought tolerant, maybe it's nothing at all.

Left is SPF-30, right is HGT.



Back to front: SPF30, HGT, Blend


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## klsmith259

How old is the growth?


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## Captquin

Late Aug 2020. Here's the thread. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22489


----------



## pricezach555

@Spammage I thought so too but it showed up after I seeded and it was everywhere.

Does anybody know how long I should wait after seeding to apply a weed killer to the lawn?


----------



## klsmith259

I would wait a month or so (the emergence of the grass) or after the grass being cut a few times. I haven't used Drive XLR8 on my KBG yet but I use it on Bermuda and it will kill off the crabgrass after a few days or a week or two depending on how established the crabgrass is.

If there isn't a lot of crabgrass you could pull it up but you would be stepping all over the lawn. Either way to get the herbicide down you will have to walk on the lawn some. It should be fine but I wouldn't walk excessively depending on how new the germination is.

https://www.domyown.com/how-much-drive-xlr8-do-use-and-how-soon-can-overseed-with-ky-bluegrass-qa-38991.html


----------



## bill101

I planted SPF-30 last fall, and this is its first spring. I have noticed a lot of poa annua in the lawn, and I suspect the SPF-30 seed was contaminated, since I didn't have poa previously. - In any event, I want to get rid of the poa annua, and in researching online, the best product for that appears to be ethofumesate, sold as Poa Constrictor or as RightLine ETHO 4SC. - - Does anyone have any experience using ethofumesate on SPF-30 hybrid bluegrass lawns to kill poa annua?? Is it safe to use on SPF-30? - - The label says it is safe for a long list of KBG hybrids, but it does name a few that it should not be used on. - SPF-30 isn't mentioned in either list on the label.


----------



## bill101

pricezach555 said:


> @Spammage I thought so too but it showed up after I seeded and it was everywhere.
> 
> Does anybody know how long I should wait after seeding to apply a weed killer to the lawn?


You can apply Tenacity at the same time that you seed. For example, Scotts sells a starter fertilizer with Tenacity ( Mesotrione) mixed in it. Other herbicides such as Ethofumesate (sold as Rightline ETHO 4 sc herbicide) are labeled as safe to apply 8 weeks after germination.


----------



## spartanlawn

bill101 said:


> I planted SPF-30 last fall, and this is its first spring. I have noticed a lot of poa annua in the lawn, and I suspect the SPF-30 seed was contaminated, since I didn't have poa previously. - In any event, I want to get rid of the poa annua, and in researching online, the best product for that appears to be ethofumesate, sold as Poa Constrictor or as RightLine ETHO 4SC. - - Does anyone have any experience using ethofumesate on SPF-30 hybrid bluegrass lawns to kill poa annua?? Is it safe to use on SPF-30? - - The label says it is safe for a long list of KBG hybrids, but it does name a few that it should not be used on. - SPF-30 isn't mentioned in either list on the label.


I have been using Tenacity to tackle poa a and addressed nearly all other weeds (except poa t...more later). I do think my Spf was contaminated with poa t. I'm not sure if it was contaminated with poa a as well. Poa a is a very ubiquitous weed in my area of SC (I don't think that's a true for poa t). Tenacity definitely reacted with Poa A. I'm not sure if it actually "killed it." However, with it and other weeds bleached, I cut the whole lawn down to 2.5. Now I'm cutting at 3." My logic is that with the fertilizer only feeding the SPF, it should outcompete whatever weakened/dead poa a was still there. Maybe not very good logic at all, but that was my thinking.

With what I think is poa t, I saw reaction to tenacity last year (the poa t's first year), but I saw none this year. On Easter, I dropped certainty on it. It looks sick but not dead yet. For me, I haven't seen certainty do the same "bleaching" like tenacity, it looks like it is browning like how you might expect round up to do. I plan on doing another round of certainty. The first application did not appear to react with the spf. I am going pretty light--the 0.5 rate. I also waited almost a month after tenacity to use certainty. I've read there have been problems with going double barreled on it. I like the fact that I think certainty also goes after some types of fescue and I do have some residual fescue hanging around.

There are definitely some strong opinions you can find in favor and not in favor of attempting to use certainty on KBG. Just sharing my experience so far.


----------



## bill101

Thanks! I'm not familiar with Certainty, so I'll look into that option. - If is safe for bluegrass, I'll likely give it a try. The online research I did (university articles mainly) indicated that conventional wisdom was that the only reliable way to deal with poa annua (aka annual bluegrass) was to use pre-emergents to prevent new seed from sprouting, after the old poa annua died. - But then I came across recommendations for ethofumesate, which is said to actually kill it off as a post emergent. One of the brand names it's sold under is actually "POA Constrictor" - But, I'm new at this, so learning how others are successfully dealing with it is very helpful. Thank you for relating your experience.


----------



## spartanlawn

bill101 said:


> Thanks! I'm not familiar with Certainty, so I'll look into that option. - If is safe for bluegrass, I'll likely give it a try. The online research I did (university articles mainly) indicated that conventional wisdom was that the only reliable way to deal with poa annua (aka annual bluegrass) was to use pre-emergents to prevent new seed from sprouting, after the old poa annua died. - But then I came across recommendations for ethofumesate, which is said to actually kill it off as a post emergent. One of the brand names it's sold under is actually "POA Constrictor" - But, I'm new at this, so learning how others are successfully dealing with it is very helpful. Thank you for relating your experience.


You may find references to the "old certainty label" this is the one I've referenced. The old one discussed use on kbg, I believe the new one has it removed.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://natseed.com/pdf/Certainty%2520Herbicide_Label.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjy19z2sP_vAhXLB80KHUTfD4MQFjACegQICxAB&usg=AOvVaw2XQFwOB8iqTOzha67-kPy7


----------



## bill101

Thanks for the link to the label. Much appreciated! Looks like it should work, if applied per directions carefully. - It is also cheaper than Poa Constrictor.


----------



## grassgrassgrass

how is everyone's spf-30 lawn looking these days?


----------



## jeffcatton

grassgrassgrass said:


> how is everyone's spf-30 lawn looking these days?


Hope yours is doing well this year! would be great to see how others are doing as the spring was actually here this year and we did not miss it 

Funny you should ask @grassgrassgrass though ...

I was trying to control the Bermuda Grass this year and thought I would try the "BioAdvanced 704100B Bermuda Grass Weed Killer Bermudagrass Control for Lawns, 32 oz, Ready-To-Spray". This stuff KILLED and BROWNED my grass ... I am so disappointed in their product(s) now. Has anyone else had this issue trying this product? (caution if you want to use it)

To be fare, I have also contacted BIOADVANCE directly and provided the same images for them to help.

I over seeded this week to see if I can get some new grass started in the dead spots now.

I can only try to recover from this with time  CHEERS!

Will let you know how I make out.


----------



## klsmith259

oh man.... sorry Jeff. Is it completely dead or do you think it will bounce back with watering?

I applied fungicide yesterday and waiting a few days before another cut. Trying to beat the heat/fungus.

I'll post some pictures of my lawn shortly.


----------



## ABC123

@jeffcatton have you hit it with any nitrogen yet? If not I would. Should recover much quicker.


----------



## jeffcatton

ABC123 said:


> @jeffcatton have you hit it with any nitrogen yet? If not I would. Should recover much quicker.


@ABC123 hey thanks for responding. I heavily watered it for ~4 days but did not hit it with pure nitro (47-0-0), I will do that tonight after cutting. This happened almost 2 weeks ago (that I put the BioAdvanced on) and I noticed the burn about 3-4 days after. I just got a response from BioAdvanced and they said it was burnt (they refunded me) and that I should wait 3 weeks before seeding. I seeded this week, *oops*, have to seed again in a couple weeks (more seed needed  ).

Will keep you updated.

Thanks for all the responses and input !


----------



## CoastalFellow

Day 12 of single strain SPF30 in coastal SC. Topdress with compost and topsoil after full burnoff.


----------



## jeffcatton

klsmith259 said:


> oh man.... sorry Jeff. Is it completely dead or do you think it will bounce back with watering?
> 
> I applied fungicide yesterday and waiting a few days before another cut. Trying to beat the heat/fungus.
> 
> I'll post some pictures of my lawn shortly.


@klsmith259 Thanks ... I think it is just the top (burnt) in some areas as I do see some green below. Hitting it with nitro tomorrow before the rain and hope that helps. I threw down some seed on Monday so we will see in a week or two.


----------



## Sleepy116

Been hyper diligent on mowing twice a week and apps. Need to get a fungicide app in this weekend tho for sure.


----------



## jeffcatton

Sleepy116 said:


> Been hyper diligent on mowing twice a week and apps. Need to get a fungicide app in this weekend tho for sure.


Very Nice, well done @Sleepy116


----------



## klsmith259

@Sleepy116 @jeffcatton I'm jealous of the really dark grass. Mine is established but I definitely don't feel like it is as dark green as you guys. My lawn is so thick my honda has trouble keeping up with it lately.

Looking good guys.


----------



## Green

spartanlawn said:


> bill101 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I'm not familiar with Certainty, so I'll look into that option. - If is safe for bluegrass, I'll likely give it a try. The online research I did (university articles mainly) indicated that conventional wisdom was that the only reliable way to deal with poa annua (aka annual bluegrass) was to use pre-emergents to prevent new seed from sprouting, after the old poa annua died. - But then I came across recommendations for ethofumesate, which is said to actually kill it off as a post emergent. One of the brand names it's sold under is actually "POA Constrictor" - But, I'm new at this, so learning how others are successfully dealing with it is very helpful. Thank you for relating your experience.
> 
> 
> 
> You may find references to the "old certainty label" this is the one I've referenced. The old one discussed use on kbg, I believe the new one has it removed.
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://natseed.com/pdf/Certainty%2520Herbicide_Label.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjy19z2sP_vAhXLB80KHUTfD4MQFjACegQICxAB&usg=AOvVaw2XQFwOB8iqTOzha67-kPy7
Click to expand...

I have the old label Certainty, and have used it to try to kill Poa Triv in cool season grass. I found that when it works, it works pretty well, far better than Velocity ever worked for example. And better than Tenacity (which tends not do a whole lot against Triv, but can often make a dent in annua). Of course, Roundup works better than anything else but it's nonselective.

There are just a couple of things worth mentioning about Certainty on Bluegrass turf. First, I found it doesn't work at all against some Poa Triv cultivars at the rates that are safe for Bluegrass turf according to the old label. For example, I have some Triv that has a super low/compact growth habit, waxy texture, yellowish-green color, and super fine leaf blade (looks like hair almost and tends not to get more than an inch tall readily). Certainty hasn't seemed to touch it, even with 4 applications AND an app of Tenacity.

The other caveat is that Certainty can make grass look bad in combination with heat/drought stress. By mid Summer, one of my treatment areas was quite brown and had thinned out and there were dead-looking patches. Looked like a typical non-irrigated lawn with moderate Summer disease and drought stress even though it was irrigated. But with time and a little help (no overseeding needed, just a little extra water a few times) the lawn came back 90% by early Fall and you couldn't really tell it had looked beat up a few months before. Most of the spots I thought were dead either came back or filled back in. Overall I was pleased with the result, as the undesirable Poa was drastically reduced in quantity in this instance.

I tried it on Kentucky Bluegrass turf. Have not tried it on hybrid Bluegrass (yet).

Check out this post showing Poa Triv in a Bluegrass seed field being treated with a related Sulfonylurea herbicide: https://m.facebook.com/MtViewSeeds/photos/a.873431316324939/1416555048679227/?type=3&source=48&__tn__=EH-R&paipv=0

I do think Certainty is the closest current thing that exists to an approved selective (against undesirable Poa) herbicide that can technically be of use in certain types of Bluegrasses and situations.


----------



## jeffcatton

klsmith259 said:


> @Sleepy116 @jeffcatton I'm jealous of the really dark grass. Mine is established but I definitely don't feel like it is as dark green as you guys. My lawn is so thick my honda has trouble keeping up with it lately.
> 
> Looking good guys.


@klsmith259 congrats on having a really think lawn. To get a darker green, try putting down some IRONITE (for a deep green lawn) this may help you. I put it down every couple months.


----------



## Sleepy116

jeffcatton said:


> klsmith259 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Sleepy116 @jeffcatton I'm jealous of the really dark grass. Mine is established but I definitely don't feel like it is as dark green as you guys. My lawn is so thick my honda has trouble keeping up with it lately.
> 
> Looking good guys.
> 
> 
> 
> @klsmith259 congrats on having a really think lawn. To get a darker green, try putting down some IRONITE (for a deep green lawn) this may help you. I put it down every couple months.
Click to expand...

I do spoon feed mine and make sure I get micros put down not just NPK. If it's due for a feeding use something with iron, but ironite would def do the trick


----------



## gtd

First soil test gives pH of 5.4, so will put down lime. I have a supply of fast-acting pelletized lime with calcium added. My soil is very high in Ca, Mg, Zn and Mn. It's low in P, average in K. Comments say to split applications of N and potassium (K?) for maintenance. I'm thinking I need to understand the calcium/sulfur relationship better in case the extra calcium is a problem.

My small test plot is looking great -- the yellow stripes are gone. I put out more grass seed about a week ago in a patch of bare earth that was a flower bed near the test plot.

The real test for committing to KBG is how it handles the heat this summer. The test areas are going to get a lot of late afternoon sun. We planted a couple of trees that may help shade the area in a few years. TBD.

We love the grass...


----------



## klsmith259

Here are the current pictures of the lawn cut at 2.5 inches. I was away for a few weeks and the grass grew to 12+ inches so over the course of a week I worked my way down to 2.5 inches. We had about 2 inches of rain this past weekend and I'm hoping that the grass rebounds some. Fingers crossed it survives the summer heat. I sharpened the blade because it wasn't cutting clean but even after sharpening it's still not cutting as clean as I would like.

Last week I put down fungicide and will apply every 14 days or so.

It looks like the grass is stressed. Can anyone tell from the pictures? I'm planning on putting down ironite to help with the light green color and I will be water more to help it out.


----------



## KevinTNLawn

Hello all! I moved into a new home, and the lawn is just weed. I am really interested in the KBG yard here in Chattanooga TN area. I put out some in my 1/3 of an acre yard back in november but it is very patchy and many areas just never came in. I am planning to order another 10-20 pounds and really target a few areas to make sure they get enough water and come in strong. I love the idea of the spf 30. any suggestions on the best place to get 10-20 pounds and the best price? was seeing 10 pounds for around $60. the local stores dont carry blue grass other than KY31


----------



## klsmith259

Outsidepride is where I purchased my seed. They sell on amazon with free shipping j believe but the price is higher to absorb the shipping cost. I haven't seen anywhere else to buy it but others may know.


----------



## gtd

@KevinTNLawn I buy SPF-30 directly from Outside Pride. It's $55 for 10 lbs., plus shipping.

Update: 1 day later and it's $65 for 10 lbs. :shock:


----------



## Spammage

@KevinTNLawn Ky31 isn't bluegrass, it's a very crappy tall fescue that is best reserved for pastures.


----------



## KevinTNLawn

Spammage said:


> @KevinTNLawn Ky31 isn't bluegrass, it's a very crappy tall fescue that is best reserved for pastures.


Yea that is what I was guessing from the labels. I want a blue grass yard and while I dont mind various blends of blue grass, KY31 jsut seemed like tall fescue which is not the same at all. right now I am working on a mix of spf 30, midnight, and looking at a few others to help blend in


----------



## KevinTNLawn

gtd said:


> @KevinTNLawn I buy SPF-30 directly from Outside Pride. It's $55 for 10 lbs., plus shipping.
> 
> Update: 1 day later and it's $65 for 10 lbs. :shock:


WOW! I just bought 25 pounds around the time of my post and got it shipped to me for $108 from them! I think I scored! that is tax included! looks like now that is $125+ tax and shipping!
Kentucky Bluegrass - Hybrid SPF-30 - 25 LBS Order Total:	$108.64


----------



## jeffcatton

klsmith259 said:


> Here are the current pictures of the lawn cut at 2.5 inches. I was away for a few weeks and the grass grew to 12+ inches so over the course of a week I worked my way down to 2.5 inches. We had about 2 inches of rain this past weekend and I'm hoping that the grass rebounds some. Fingers crossed it survives the summer heat. I sharpened the blade because it wasn't cutting clean but even after sharpening it's still not cutting as clean as I would like.
> 
> Last week I put down fungicide and will apply every 14 days or so.
> 
> It looks like the grass is stressed. Can anyone tell from the pictures? I'm planning on putting down ironite to help with the light green color and I will be water more to help it out.


@klsmith259 in some areas it looks flat/stressed and some larger areas look great/thick in your pics. Cutting so much off will stress it and could take a couple cuttings/weeks to get stronger. Mine took a year to really thicken and several seedings (spring / fall) to get to what I had - standing tall/thick. I am growing in the burnt areas and seed is already sprouting to recover from the spray I used 3 weeks back.

Overall your yard is coming along nicely, how are you liking it?

As for heat, mine survived the DFW Texas high heat we had 30+ days over 100 with little to no rain, love irrigation. Hope you do well.

Jeff


----------



## klsmith259

Overall, I like it a lot. My wife is from PA and she prefers it over bermuda. It's hard to tell but almost every day we throw the frisbee for the dog and it is holding up green to the traffic. At one point he compacted a path and the grass was laying down and it recovered. The only thing which is unavoidable with any type of grass is the dog urine but I do a good job of watering it or telling him to go to the right (mulch) and he goes there instead.


----------



## spartanlawn

Green said:


> spartanlawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bill101 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I'm not familiar with Certainty, so I'll look into that option. - If is safe for bluegrass, I'll likely give it a try. The online research I did (university articles mainly) indicated that conventional wisdom was that the only reliable way to deal with poa annua (aka annual bluegrass) was to use pre-emergents to prevent new seed from sprouting, after the old poa annua died. - But then I came across recommendations for ethofumesate, which is said to actually kill it off as a post emergent. One of the brand names it's sold under is actually "POA Constrictor" - But, I'm new at this, so learning how others are successfully dealing with it is very helpful. Thank you for relating your experience.
> 
> 
> 
> You may find references to the "old certainty label" this is the one I've referenced. The old one discussed use on kbg, I believe the new one has it removed.
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://natseed.com/pdf/Certainty%2520Herbicide_Label.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjy19z2sP_vAhXLB80KHUTfD4MQFjACegQICxAB&usg=AOvVaw2XQFwOB8iqTOzha67-kPy7
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have the old label Certainty, and have used it to try to kill Poa Triv in cool season grass. I found that when it works, it works pretty well, far better than Velocity ever worked for example. And better than Tenacity (which tends not do a whole lot against Triv, but can often make a dent in annua). Of course, Roundup works better than anything else but it's nonselective.
> 
> There are just a couple of things worth mentioning about Certainty on Bluegrass turf. First, I found it doesn't work at all against some Poa Triv cultivars at the rates that are safe for Bluegrass turf according to the old label. For example, I have some Triv that has a super low/compact growth habit, waxy texture, yellowish-green color, and super fine leaf blade (looks like hair almost and tends not to get more than an inch tall readily). Certainty hasn't seemed to touch it, even with 4 applications AND an app of Tenacity.
> 
> The other caveat is that Certainty can make grass look bad in combination with heat/drought stress. By mid Summer, one of my treatment areas was quite brown and had thinned out and there were dead-looking patches. Looked like a typical non-irrigated lawn with moderate Summer disease and drought stress even though it was irrigated. But with time and a little help (no overseeding needed, just a little extra water a few times) the lawn came back 90% by early Fall and you couldn't really tell it had looked beat up a few months before. Most of the spots I thought were dead either came back or filled back in. Overall I was pleased with the result, as the undesirable Poa was drastically reduced in quantity in this instance.
> 
> I tried it on Kentucky Bluegrass turf. Have not tried it on hybrid Bluegrass (yet).
> 
> Check out this post showing Poa Triv in a Bluegrass seed field being treated with a related Sulfonylurea herbicide: https://m.facebook.com/MtViewSeeds/photos/a.873431316324939/1416555048679227/?type=3&source=48&__tn__=EH-R&paipv=0
> 
> I do think Certainty is the closest current thing that exists to an approved selective (against undesirable Poa) herbicide that can technically be of use in certain types of Bluegrasses and situations.
Click to expand...

I put down my second application of certainty this past weekend. 21 days after my first application and I did the 0.5 rate. The pt has continued to look sick but still plenty green and I see some patches of SPF30 mixed in that look unaffected.

Are you using a surfactant? I have been using a surfactant and including an insecticide.

I think I may be applying certainty at the wrong time of the year but I was hoping to still be able to kill it. Applying this time of year may weaken it enough to die in the sc summer. If not I might apply again in late summer per the instructions since I have found labor day to be a good day to seed.

No sign of pt in my back yard which was seeded 9/2020. I used the months of July and August to kill absolutely everything. I think I put down three or four rounds of 3 or 4x max strength roundup. Some areas with monkey grass got 6 probably.

The poa t problem in my front yard is smack in the middle of the yard. I may nuke this section in July depending on how patient I feel.


----------



## Cdub5_

Well, it is safe to say I am thoroughly pleased with my outcome from reno'ing my back yard bermuda to this SPF-30 bg as well as some Midnight (trying it out to see how it performs). Thanks to all of you who paved the way and proved it is possible to have a 'cold season grass' in warmer climates. :thumbup: 
This fall it will be time to tackle the front yard. :mrgreen:


----------



## Green

@spartanlawn, yes, I used surfactant per the instructions.

I think this is actually a good time for you to apply it. (We usually do late May or early to mid June here.) You might have to play with the interval a bit, but you usually don't want to extend it unless absolutely necessary, because more Triv is likely to recover that way.

The problem with late Summer is, how much Triv is actually green? If it is, maybe try a second round then.

If you're blanket spraying an area, don't expect 100% kill even on susceptible cultivars, but 85% kill is a reasonable expectation. It should go totally brown after two apps. The non-susceptible varieties are barely touched; they might brown slightly but that's about it. I don't know if there is a better surfactant that might increase the success on those (fine blades, waxy). I've only used NIS so far.

I found it strange just how much water they recommend. 2 gallons per thousand is a lot.


----------



## jeffcatton

Cdub5_ said:


> Well, it is safe to say I am thoroughly pleased with my outcome from reno'ing my back yard bermuda to this SPF-30 bg as well as some Midnight (trying it out to see how it performs). Thanks to all of you who paved the way and proved it is possible to have a 'cold season grass' in warmer climates. :thumbup:
> This fall it will be time to tackle the front yard. :mrgreen:


WOW, very nice !

Are you have issues with the edges and growing SPF30? I had similar in mine as well shaded and I just put down some good dark soil and pounded it with seed + starter fert.


----------



## klsmith259

@Cdub5_ Very nice! looking good!


----------



## grassgrassgrass

@jeffcatton I'm planning a full renno this fall to get SPF-30 instead of St Aug - the test patches I've gone for so far have done well in the shade of our live oaks, but do you recommend that extra attention on the shady areas from the get-go? Just curious if you have any other shade-specific tips for this seed. thanks!


----------



## Cdub5_

@jeffcatton Thanks a lot!

I've had trouble growing grass period along the edge of my western fence. The previous common bermuda struggled as well. My neighbor has 2 trees that kinda overhang into my yard so sunlight is an issue. I've just started using soil softener because the areas with no grass tries to turn into hardpan so hopefully the softener will loosen the soil up to allow the grass to fill on in to the edge. After getting a good full growing season under its belt hopefully things fill in completely.


----------



## Cdub5_

klsmith259 said:


> @Cdub5_ Very nice! looking good!


Thank you! :thumbup:


----------



## jeffcatton

grassgrassgrass said:


> @jeffcatton I'm planning a full renno this fall to get SPF-30 instead of St Aug - the test patches I've gone for so far have done well in the shade of our live oaks, but do you recommend that extra attention on the shady areas from the get-go? Just curious if you have any other shade-specific tips for this seed. thanks!


@grassgrassgrass what I did for those tough areas (including shaded) was put down some really good soil, extra seed and starter fertilizer. It will get stronger (straight up) in a year as it matures.


----------



## jeffcatton

Cdub5_ said:


> @jeffcatton Thanks a lot!
> 
> I've had trouble growing grass period along the edge of my western fence. The previous common bermuda struggled as well. My neighbor has 2 trees that kinda overhang into my yard so sunlight is an issue. I've just started using soil softener because the areas with no grass tries to turn into hardpan so hopefully the softener will loosen the soil up to allow the grass to fill on in to the edge. After getting a good full growing season under its belt hopefully things fill in completely.


@Cdub5_ The best thing is being in Oklahoma that is Bermuda area and cooler in the winter, you will stick out like a sore thumb  :thumbup:


----------



## klsmith259

As for the soil on the side that won't grow I would cultivate it and mix in good soil and some sand. That will help and my experience with areas like that is they will get stronger and the SPF-30 doesn't need a lot of sunlight.


----------



## Cdub5_

jeffcatton said:


> Cdub5_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jeffcatton Thanks a lot!
> 
> I've had trouble growing grass period along the edge of my western fence. The previous common bermuda struggled as well. My neighbor has 2 trees that kinda overhang into my yard so sunlight is an issue. I've just started using soil softener because the areas with no grass tries to turn into hardpan so hopefully the softener will loosen the soil up to allow the grass to fill on in to the edge. After getting a good full growing season under its belt hopefully things fill in completely.
> 
> 
> 
> @Cdub5_ The best thing is being in Oklahoma that is Bermuda area and cooler in the winter, you will stick out like a sore thumb  :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Man you aren't lying! I never see any cool season grasses here in Oklahoma. In fact mine is the first I've ever seen lol. Everyone's yard is going to be brown and dormant while mine is a glowing super dark green. Can't wait!! :thumbup:


----------



## jeffcatton

Cdub5_ said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cdub5_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jeffcatton Thanks a lot!
> 
> I've had trouble growing grass period along the edge of my western fence. The previous common bermuda struggled as well. My neighbor has 2 trees that kinda overhang into my yard so sunlight is an issue. I've just started using soil softener because the areas with no grass tries to turn into hardpan so hopefully the softener will loosen the soil up to allow the grass to fill on in to the edge. After getting a good full growing season under its belt hopefully things fill in completely.
> 
> 
> 
> @Cdub5_ The best thing is being in Oklahoma that is Bermuda area and cooler in the winter, you will stick out like a sore thumb  :thumbup:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Man you aren't lying! I never see any cool season grasses here in Oklahoma. In fact mine is the first I've ever seen lol. Everyone's yard is going to be brown and dormant while mine is a glowing super dark green. Can't wait!! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

@Cdub5_ I get people walking by and bend over to feel the grass to see if it is real ... LOL ... some want to walk on it in bare feet and/or lay down on it and do a GRASS ANGEL :lol:


----------



## Sleepy116

I'm the only cool season in my neighborhood and have had everyone come ask what they need to do since they thought I painted mine over the winter. Summer will be a test but I'm def all in


----------



## Adamg77

Anyone use pgr on it?


----------



## klsmith259

@Adamg77 Not yet. I am planning to this fall. My grass has so much stored energy I'm cutting at 2.5inches every other day.


----------



## jeffcatton

Sleepy116 said:


> I'm the only cool season in my neighborhood and have had everyone come ask what they need to do since they thought I painted mine over the winter. Summer will be a test but I'm def all in


@Sleepy116 your grass is really nice .... hope to get mine back to that quality again. I am the only cool grass here too .. the winter is AWESOME! You should be ok in the summer, i have done 2 summers of 100+ already and the grass only gets better each year.


----------



## Sleepy116

jeffcatton said:


> Sleepy116 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm the only cool season in my neighborhood and have had everyone come ask what they need to do since they thought I painted mine over the winter. Summer will be a test but I'm def all in
> 
> 
> 
> @Sleepy116 your grass is really nice .... hope to get mine back to that quality again. I am the only cool grass here too .. the winter is AWESOME! You should be ok in the summer, i have done 2 summers of 100+ already and the grass only gets better each year.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jeff that means a lot. Your lawn and other here Are what motivated me to push and go thru with it. Easy how quickly it all happens but doesn't make any less painful a process.


----------



## Lem855

Questions for those that have grown this grass. Do you have pictures of what the grass looked like at 30-60-90 days and after seeding?
I had to reseed many washed out areas yesterday from the storms in DFW so I don't have a uniform baby lawn yet. Kind of hoping after the 2nd month to mow.


----------



## jeffcatton

Lem855 said:


> Questions for those that have grown this grass. Do you have pictures of what the grass looked like at 30-60-90 days and after seeding?
> I had to reseed many washed out areas yesterday from the storms in DFW so I don't have a uniform baby lawn yet. Kind of hoping after the 2nd month to mow.


@Lem855 Yours looks good and just a couple weeks I would expect. This grass does sprout fast.

Here is 4.5 weeks out for me -> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=224511#p224511
There are entries following that which are 2 months out.

There are many others who have provided their progress within this group. Hope that helps.


----------



## Lem855

jeffcatton said:


> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Questions for those that have grown this grass. Do you have pictures of what the grass looked like at 30-60-90 days and after seeding?
> I had to reseed many washed out areas yesterday from the storms in DFW so I don't have a uniform baby lawn yet. Kind of hoping after the 2nd month to mow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Lem855 Yours looks good and just a couple weeks I would expect. This grass does sprout fast.
> 
> Here is 4.5 weeks out for me -> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=224511#p224511
> There are entries following that which are 2 months out.
> 
> There are many others who have provided their progress within this group. Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jeff, looking forward to the day I get to mow this one and maybe next year continue with the other half on my backyard as its 70%KY-31 and 30% St. Augustine/ Bermuda mixed. I'm using the Bayer Bermuda control on it for now.


----------



## cityofoaks

I put some Primo Maxx to the SPF-30 I have that was infested with Poa T about 30 days ago, just finished up the third application at .5 per thousand and will say the results so far are promising. The poa t looks slap burned up at this point and the SPF is filling in the patches slowly but surely. Summer is about to hit so we will see how it hangs in there, but if it can stay thick then the poa t is gonna lose a lot of ground even if it tries to come back in the fall it will be nearly choked out by then.

Anyway wanted to put that out there for anyone else having Poa T issues as a possible option.


----------



## spartanlawn

@cityofoaks 
I hadn't seen poa t on the label for primo. I do see poa a. Whatever works!!

For certainty, I am quite a few days out from my second application. I would say that it looks stalled at this point. It didn't grow this past week and EVERYTHING else did with warm weather and plenty of rain. It's not terribly brown, just stalled.


----------



## CoastalFellow

30 days after sowing - coastal SC.


----------



## Lem855

Still a ways away from my first mow but for 39 days from reno to this not bad, a 👌.


----------



## jeffcatton

Well, for those who saw my prior posts, it has been a few weeks since I burnt my grass but with determination and some added chemical help, my grass is just about back now and looking better (also cut shorter). A friend of my turned me on to Doc's Super Juice (video below), well it worked very nice on the seed, I'm impressed (put it down 2 weeks after the initial seed planting in the burnt areas). The seed grew faster and looks very healthy, darker too. Needless to say, I did not study this much before but I am trusting it now. I did half dose (1 cup / 3000 sqft) the first time, and every 2 weeks after. Amazing stuff! (CAUTION : You need to cut every 3 days religiously - MULCH IT)

*BURNT 1*


*BURNT 2*


*TODAY - RESTORED*


----------



## jeffcatton

Lem855 said:


> Still a ways away from my first mow but for 39 days from reno to this not bad, a 👌.


@Lem855 WOW .. Looking very nice in deed, great job! It will be amazing looking when you're done - KUDOS !


----------



## rickta24

Recently moved to DFW. Planning to try SPF-30. Is anyone having success reel mowing it at less than 1 inch?


----------



## cokenner

rickta24 said:


> Recently moved to DFW. Planning to try SPF-30. Is anyone having success reel mowing it at less than 1 inch?


I would say the saving grace of this grass, and any cool season in the North Central Texas area, is mowing higher in the summer to maintain green. I have TTTF in my front lawn, located in Wichita Falls, and mow 3.25" to 4" and it has stayed green for 3 seasons with no issue, but still a lot of watering needed.

It might be worth a try, but may require some very tentative lawn care and a pretty level lawn.


----------



## jakemauldin

Well I started this thread but I quickly got behind the curve compared to y'all and it's exciting to see how many of y'all have had success with the SPF-30. I bought another 200lbs this week to try and fill the rest of my "exterior yard" in.


----------



## jeffcatton

jakemauldin said:


> Well I started this thread but I quickly got behind the curve compared to y'all and it's exciting to see how many of y'all have had success with the SPF-30. I bought another 200lbs this week to try and fill the rest of my "exterior yard" in.


Yes Jake, see what you started man ! All your fault !!! 

There has been a lot of great progress and trial/errors since you started this. The group has grown and many professional yard care takers in DFW are starting to take notice and use KBG SPF-30 here is Fort Worth. I spoke to one of them several times (stopped by the house) and he has seen mine for a couple years now, nice guy. He started using SPF-30 for homes he cares for professionally, now that is saying something!

You have a beautiful back yard with lots of trees, all the best in your growing - 200 lbs. NICE! Do share your success 

Jeff


----------



## jeffcatton

All, here is the formula I am now working with to help keep the grass green (Doc's Super Juice), stop growth of Bermuda and keep my KBG growing. (added in Blue marker for where I sprayed)

I used a 5 Gallon drink container with a spout for easy fill in the water disbursement sprayer.

I use a hose sprayer for 3000 sqft, the formula is for 3 Gallons Water. I do this every 4 weeks and now no more granular Nitro, IRONITE, etc is really needed. From my learnings, it will provide a better coverage than granular as the liquid solution will cover the grass as a whole better. I was using just Doc's Super Juice for new seed and then made this up for going forward during summer/fall. The amount of water is not key, as long as the amount of spray is used for the acers of your lot (adjust as need) - DOC's video I posted early best explains this process.

Will keep you updated on my tweaks and failure / success with this formula  So far the Super Juice on it's own really works great especially on new seed (mix only Doc's + BLUE marker nothing else for new seed - No TRICLOPYR ESTER).

Has anyone else done anything similar to this and how did you do it? I am always looking for better ways to maintain the quality of grass ... and yes I have been BURNT a couple times 

Jeff


----------



## spartanlawn

@jakemauldin

Not sure others thoughts. I had really good results planting labor day weekend. Most of the hottest days were over particularly considering the week or two additional for germination. The ground was warm and the grass had all winter to establish before the coming summer.


----------



## Sleepy116

@jeffcatton are you struggling with all this rain? I was able to get a mow in last week but all this water has kept me off the lawn. It needs a good mow and I will be out there today or tomorrow if it can dry out some


----------



## jeffcatton

Sleepy116 said:


> @jeffcatton are you struggling with all this rain? I was able to get a mow in last week but all this water has kept me off the lawn. It needs a good mow and I will be out there today or tomorrow if it can dry out some


@Sleepy116 I have been lucky and get it cut in between (great thing for WFH) ... I also reduced to 2.75" and bagged. Very luck I got to it late yesterday also - it was a bit soft from the morning rain. We have had a ton of rain ... most I remember in 4 years. One thing I have noticed (me), and hope others have to, this SPF-30 does dry up the ground quickly - more so than the Bermuda did.

Grass is so THICK and fully recovered from the burn I did earlier.


----------



## cokenner

jeffcatton said:


> All, here is the formula I am now working with to help keep the grass green (Doc's Super Juice), stop growth of Bermuda and keep my KBG growing. (added in Blue marker for where I sprayed)
> 
> I used a 5 Gallon drink container with a spout for easy fill in the water disbursement sprayer.
> 
> I use a hose sprayer for 3000 sqft, the formula is for 3 Gallons Water. I do this every 4 weeks and now no more granular Nitro, IRONITE, etc is really needed. From my learnings, it will provide a better coverage than granular as the liquid solution will cover the grass as a whole better. I was using just Doc's Super Juice for new seed and then made this up for going forward during summer/fall. The amount of water is not key, as long as the amount of spray is used for the acers of your lot (adjust as need) - DOC's video I posted early best explains this process.
> 
> Will keep you updated on my tweaks and failure / success with this formula  So far the Super Juice on it's own really works great especially on new seed (mix only Doc's + BLUE marker nothing else for new seed - No TRICLOPYR ESTER).
> 
> Has anyone else done anything similar to this and how did you do it? I am always looking for better ways to maintain the quality of grass ... and yes I have been BURNT a couple times
> 
> Jeff


Are you using this as your full fertilization regimen or in between granular apps? I'm looking at a liquid fert regimen, as I have a small lawn and think it will be easier. Plus, I like having something to do in the yard other than mow during the week. I like how you added the TE for the bermuda. I have a feeling on my fall reno for my backyard, scorched earth won't be enough for the common bermuda I currently have. That stuff is resilient. Adding the TE to keep it at bay is an awesome idea.


----------



## Lem855

Yes I had it with this rain as well my SPF30 flooded out and was so ready to be mowed. Not sure what damage this may have caused but I am crossing my fingers and praying for a comeback. 
I have settled in on using only Neptune harvest 2-0-2 Turf Formula and FEture iron for a every 3 week application regiment at slightly reduced rates and bermuda control spray by bayer. The bayer product may go by the wayside as I see more of you using triclophyer Ester as a prevention control. I just need to get a good few days of no rain so I can finaly mow. Who do I need to pay for this to happen, .....anyone?


----------



## jeffcatton

cokenner said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> All, here is the formula I am now working with to help keep the grass green (Doc's Super Juice), stop growth of Bermuda and keep my KBG growing. (added in Blue marker for where I sprayed)
> 
> I used a 5 Gallon drink container with a spout for easy fill in the water disbursement sprayer.
> 
> I use a hose sprayer for 3000 sqft, the formula is for 3 Gallons Water. I do this every 4 weeks and now no more granular Nitro, IRONITE, etc is really needed. From my learnings, it will provide a better coverage than granular as the liquid solution will cover the grass as a whole better. I was using just Doc's Super Juice for new seed and then made this up for going forward during summer/fall. The amount of water is not key, as long as the amount of spray is used for the acers of your lot (adjust as need) - DOC's video I posted early best explains this process.
> 
> Will keep you updated on my tweaks and failure / success with this formula  So far the Super Juice on it's own really works great especially on new seed (mix only Doc's + BLUE marker nothing else for new seed - No TRICLOPYR ESTER).
> 
> Has anyone else done anything similar to this and how did you do it? I am always looking for better ways to maintain the quality of grass ... and yes I have been BURNT a couple times
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you using this as your full fertilization regimen or in between granular apps? I'm looking at a liquid fert regimen, as I have a small lawn and think it will be easier. Plus, I like having something to do in the yard other than mow during the week. I like how you added the TE for the bermuda. I have a feeling on my fall reno for my backyard, scorched earth won't be enough for the common bermuda I currently have. That stuff is resilient. Adding the TE to keep it at bay is an awesome idea.
Click to expand...

@cokenner I am looking to move to liquid and move away from granular, from what I have read and experienced so far this year, it is more accurate and I can see it fully covers my yard. This is something I was trying, let me know how you make out also. I have used granules for years, the granular does not cover 100% as it only gets to the place the granules lay - and I was never sure if I had covered 100%. Agree, this Bermuda is resilient and likes to come to my place to feed on the delicious fertilizer


----------



## jeffcatton

Lem855 said:


> Yes I had it with this rain as well my SPF30 flooded out and was so ready to be mowed. Not sure what damage this may have caused but I am crossing my fingers and praying for a comeback.
> I have settled in on using only Neptune harvest 2-0-2 Turf Formula and FEture iron for a every 3 week application regiment at slightly reduced rates and bermuda control spray by bayer. The bayer product may go by the wayside as I see more of you using triclophyer Ester as a prevention control. I just need to get a good few days of no rain so I can finaly mow. Who do I need to pay for this to happen, .....anyone?


@Lem855 I was able to cut 3 times, 2 times I had to bag it and not mulch. Hope it comes back. BTW, how is the grass with your pool water, any issue with water (salt/chlorine) spill over with all the rain?


----------



## cokenner

jeffcatton said:


> cokenner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> All, here is the formula I am now working with to help keep the grass green (Doc's Super Juice), stop growth of Bermuda and keep my KBG growing. (added in Blue marker for where I sprayed)
> 
> I used a 5 Gallon drink container with a spout for easy fill in the water disbursement sprayer.
> 
> I use a hose sprayer for 3000 sqft, the formula is for 3 Gallons Water. I do this every 4 weeks and now no more granular Nitro, IRONITE, etc is really needed. From my learnings, it will provide a better coverage than granular as the liquid solution will cover the grass as a whole better. I was using just Doc's Super Juice for new seed and then made this up for going forward during summer/fall. The amount of water is not key, as long as the amount of spray is used for the acers of your lot (adjust as need) - DOC's video I posted early best explains this process.
> 
> Will keep you updated on my tweaks and failure / success with this formula  So far the Super Juice on it's own really works great especially on new seed (mix only Doc's + BLUE marker nothing else for new seed - No TRICLOPYR ESTER).
> 
> Has anyone else done anything similar to this and how did you do it? I am always looking for better ways to maintain the quality of grass ... and yes I have been BURNT a couple times
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you using this as your full fertilization regimen or in between granular apps? I'm looking at a liquid fert regimen, as I have a small lawn and think it will be easier. Plus, I like having something to do in the yard other than mow during the week. I like how you added the TE for the bermuda. I have a feeling on my fall reno for my backyard, scorched earth won't be enough for the common bermuda I currently have. That stuff is resilient. Adding the TE to keep it at bay is an awesome idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @cokenner I am looking to move to liquid and move away from granular, from what I have read and experienced so far this year, it is more accurate and I can see it fully covers my yard. This is something I was trying, let me know how you make out also. I have used granules for years, the granular does not cover 100% as it only gets to the place the granules lay - and I was never sure if I had covered 100%. Agree, this Bermuda is resilient and likes to come to my place to feed on the delicious fertilizer
Click to expand...

I'm thinking of buying the Gallons pack from Simple Lawn Solutions as a supplement to granular following Ryan Knorr's fertilizer schedule. I plan to do his schedule (https://ryanknorrlawncare.com/simplelawnguide/#&gid=1&pid=1) for sure and try to match the fertilizer with either a DIY or something cheaper if I can find it.


----------



## jeffcatton

cokenner said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cokenner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you using this as your full fertilization regimen or in between granular apps? I'm looking at a liquid fert regimen, as I have a small lawn and think it will be easier. Plus, I like having something to do in the yard other than mow during the week. I like how you added the TE for the bermuda. I have a feeling on my fall reno for my backyard, scorched earth won't be enough for the common bermuda I currently have. That stuff is resilient. Adding the TE to keep it at bay is an awesome idea.
> 
> 
> 
> @cokenner I am looking to move to liquid and move away from granular, from what I have read and experienced so far this year, it is more accurate and I can see it fully covers my yard. This is something I was trying, let me know how you make out also. I have used granules for years, the granular does not cover 100% as it only gets to the place the granules lay - and I was never sure if I had covered 100%. Agree, this Bermuda is resilient and likes to come to my place to feed on the delicious fertilizer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm thinking of buying the Gallons pack from Simple Lawn Solutions as a supplement to granular following Ryan Knorr's fertilizer schedule. I plan to do his schedule (https://ryanknorrlawncare.com/simplelawnguide/#&gid=1&pid=1) for sure and try to match the fertilizer with either a DIY or something cheaper if I can find it.
Click to expand...

@cokenner Thanks for sharing the link to us, some great tips / videos. This is exactly what I am doing ... only a self made concoction


----------



## cokenner

jeffcatton said:


> All, here is the formula I am now working with to help keep the grass green (Doc's Super Juice), stop growth of Bermuda and keep my KBG growing. (added in Blue marker for where I sprayed)
> 
> I used a 5 Gallon drink container with a spout for easy fill in the water disbursement sprayer.
> 
> I use a hose sprayer for 3000 sqft, the formula is for 3 Gallons Water. I do this every 4 weeks and now no more granular Nitro, IRONITE, etc is really needed. From my learnings, it will provide a better coverage than granular as the liquid solution will cover the grass as a whole better. I was using just Doc's Super Juice for new seed and then made this up for going forward during summer/fall. The amount of water is not key, as long as the amount of spray is used for the acers of your lot (adjust as need) - DOC's video I posted early best explains this process.
> 
> Will keep you updated on my tweaks and failure / success with this formula  So far the Super Juice on it's own really works great especially on new seed (mix only Doc's + BLUE marker nothing else for new seed - No TRICLOPYR ESTER).
> 
> Has anyone else done anything similar to this and how did you do it? I am always looking for better ways to maintain the quality of grass ... and yes I have been BURNT a couple times
> 
> Jeff


Another quick question! Are you using a pump/back pack sprayer, or hose end?


----------



## TylUmp

Checking in from East Texas (Tyler)


----------



## SeanBB

@TylUmp love that pool! Grass not too bad either


----------



## Lem855

Finally got to mow the new lawn. After tremendous rain amounts and flooding of the new grass, it dried enough for her first hair cut. Tomorrow some much needed nutrients to get this looking right for summer.


----------



## Austinite

I seeded this stuff recently in my backyard. I learned very quickly to not ever challenge Bermuda. Over the course of 3 months i rounded up bermuda till it was no where in sight. Then i removed about 8 inches of soil and added new soil. Bermuda is back and taking over.

But it was nice when it was dominant.


----------



## jeffcatton

TylUmp said:


> Checking in from East Texas (Tyler)


@TylUmp Nice, very very nice! Well done!


----------



## jeffcatton

Lem855 said:


> Finally got to mow the new lawn. After tremendous rain amounts and flooding of the new grass, it dried enough for her first hair cut. Tomorrow some much needed nutrients to get this looking right for summer.


@Lem855 Yours is coming in nice and thick, once it matures it will strengthen and bend better and Iron will darken it to give the depth in color. Hope you can share what/how you go to your next stage of caring for KBG. Nice work!


----------



## tank3011570

Hi guys, I am in DFW area and currently have Bermuda lawn. I want to overseed my Bermuda with SPF-30 hybrid bluegrass this fall. Is it a good idea to make it bluemuda? Or it's better to kill my Bermuda first and make it SPF-30 bluegrass alone? Does anyone have experience with both choices? Thanks.


----------



## jeffcatton

tank3011570 said:


> Hi guys, I am in DFW area and currently have Bermuda lawn. I want to overseed my Bermuda with SPF-30 hybrid bluegrass this fall. Is it a good idea to make it bluemuda? Or it's better to kill my Bermuda first and make it SPF-30 bluegrass alone? Does anyone have experience with both choices? Thanks.


@tank3011570 welcome to the blog! If you leave Bermuda and mix them, in the fall Bermuda will go dormant (brown) and you will need to cut low (KBG & Bermuda) to have only KBG on top (stay green). Bermuda is a very dominant grass and will try to take over. I would recommend (and many here can chime in also with the personal experience) to take a least 2 months of the summer growing season and kill the Bermuda (kill, cut, give a couple weeks, kill and cut again, watch for any growth - then kill again). Be sure to give a couple months to really get rid of all Bermuda (during growing season, not when dormant). Then start in fall with spot fill with soil where needed, then KBG seed with starter fertilizer.

Many have done the above and have some really good experience / learnings on doing this. Some good advice from others helps saves you from undesirable results.

Hope that helps.


----------



## TylUmp

Jeff, with the TRICLOPYR ESTER once a month do you think the kill time can be somewhat reduced between seeding?


----------



## jeffcatton

TylUmp said:


> Jeff, with the TRICLOPYR ESTER once a month do you think the kill time can be somewhat reduced between seeding?


@TylUmp I would not seed while using ESTER, wait for 3 weeks after using ESTER if you want to seed. Hope that helps.

Q
How soon can I overseed/reseed after applying Hi-Yield Triclopyr Ester?
A
After applying Hi-Yield Triclopyr Ester you must wait at least 3 weeks before overseeding or reseeding.

https://www.domyown.com/hiyield-triclopyr-ester-questions-pq-4543.html?products_id=4543&paginationlink=product_questions.php&keywords=seeding


----------



## spartanlawn

We haven't really seen 90s or high humidity in upstate SC until last week with the humidity and climbing temps this coming week. I raised the cut height this week from 3 to 3.5 and probably will raise it again to 4 next week. Adjacent lawns with fescue I think are showing some stress. My spf does look a little more taxed and thinner the last couple of weeks. I guess it's time to hunker down. Wasn't planning on applying any weed kill and was planning on halving the bi-weekly fertilizer. That's what I'm thinking....


----------



## Lem855

tank3011570 said:


> Hi guys, I am in DFW area and currently have Bermuda lawn. I want to overseed my Bermuda with SPF-30 hybrid bluegrass this fall. Is it a good idea to make it bluemuda? Or it's better to kill my Bermuda first and make it SPF-30 bluegrass alone? Does anyone have experience with both choices? Thanks.


 I did the same process that Jeff outlined in this post. Killed the common bermuda over a 2 week period and then cut the remainder out roots and all and started from scratch the 3rd week. Trust me the patience is worth the wait and it's keep you satisfied with joy when you see the fruits of the labor. I only did half a yard, can't wait to do the other half this fall.


----------



## pricezach555

@jeffcatton I live south of Fort Worth and have noticed my spf really thinning this past week due to the high temps and high humidity. I am currently watering twice a week. I am mowing at a height of 3.5 inches. What would you recommend to do as in fertilization and watering during this hot summer?


----------



## jeffcatton

@pricezach555 I too have a couple areas that have some thinning and looks a little dry. I believe it is my watering coverage so I am adjusting the heads in that zone tonight - need better overlapping. Let's see if that fixes it. I also increase my water duration ... some zones were set for winter/spring and not summer heat - go deeper. As for fertilizer, I am using a 1/2 batch of Doc Super Juice every 3 weeks ... cutting every 3 days at 3.25" just like you.

I do see some Bermuda coming back in on my front/back areas ... I'll have to get after that and keep it controlled. The heat with the water brought it back out


----------



## Cdub5_

@pricezach555 If I may add my penny's worth, with SPF30 as well as other cool season grasses during the summer the goal is to "get by with as little damage as possible." Fertilizers promoting growth should be cut waaaay back during this time of the year. Basically keep up with your watering (at least 1.5" per week) and be on the lookout for any fungus/diseases that my try to appear. Once fall gets close is when it's time to start making repairs and pushing the nitrogen again.


----------



## grassgrassgrass

for DFW, do you think it would be 'easier' to renovate with a blend of TTTF and SPF-30, or should I just go 100% SPF-30? Thinking through for what I want to seed this Fall...there's a YouTuber with an impressive lawn that I follow, and he does a half/half mix here in DFW and his lawn also looks great (like yalls).

I think his reasoning was the TTTF helps resist drought better?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQV9bZj8Xgc


----------



## spartanlawn

@Cdub5_ @Green 
I did become frustrated with looking at the poa triv still hanging around. Last weekend I dropped 0.7 of certainty on it. I said why not, next option would be to exterminate completely that 1/2 of the infested lawn in early August. I'm curious what will pull thru with a higher than recommended dose. I really haven't noticed much reaction of certainty in the spf when I applied the two earlier rounds of 0.5 rate.


----------



## Green

spartanlawn said:


> @Cdub5_ @Green
> I did become frustrated with looking at the poa triv still hanging around. Last weekend I dropped 0.7 of certainty on it. I said why not, next option would be to exterminate completely that 1/2 of the infested lawn in early August. I'm curious what will pull thru with a higher than recommended dose. I really haven't noticed much reaction of certainty in the spf when I applied the two earlier rounds of 0.5 rate.


Interested to see. I've only done up to 0.5oz rate so far, but I have done more than 2 apps. Don't despair if it looks dead for a couple of months...the Certaonty might make the HBG go dormant. It did that to my KBG last year. Keep watering it and it will come back later when it cools down.

Actually, a single 0.75oz app is listed in the old instructions as an option on KBG (see the label for the forthcoming branded generic called "Sertay" by Atticus...it's identical).

Btw, @spartanlawn and others: do you think these 0.50 oz rate apps will do anything to prevent Nutsedge while we are at it? Would be a nice bonus. I was wondering about this...


----------



## jeffcatton

grassgrassgrass said:


> for DFW, do you think it would be 'easier' to renovate with a blend of TTTF and SPF-30, or should I just go 100% SPF-30? Thinking through for what I want to seed this Fall...there's a YouTuber with an impressive lawn that I follow, and he does a half/half mix here in DFW and his lawn also looks great (like yalls).
> 
> I think his reasoning was the TTTF helps resist drought better?


@grassgrassgrass Thanks .. he has a very large beautiful grass and explains it really well. He has put in a lot of sweat into his outside to bring it up to that level, very nicely done! I have seen some on the forum and others also say you cannot grow KBG here, and he has also proven that statement wrong. Wonder why he has Bermuda in the back still and not all TTTF / KBG, should ask. I like the tip of using mulchlock on new seed, I wish I knew that when I did my yard 3 years ago 

Editing as I just found out why he did not do his back yard ->>>


----------



## TylUmp

Has anyone tried the GCI Heatwave KBG? Considering it for my over seed here in East Texas.


----------



## grassgrassgrass

so if you guys had to do it over again, would you go pure SPF-30 again? or do you think it would be better to try a blend with TTTF?


----------



## cokenner

grassgrassgrass said:


> for DFW, do you think it would be 'easier' to renovate with a blend of TTTF and SPF-30, or should I just go 100% SPF-30? Thinking through for what I want to seed this Fall...there's a YouTuber with an impressive lawn that I follow, and he does a half/half mix here in DFW and his lawn also looks great (like yalls).
> 
> I think his reasoning was the TTTF helps resist drought better?


I plan to do a mono stand of SPF in my backyard this September and overseed my TTTF in front. The TTTF has been out front for going on 4 years now. It's Barenbrug RTF and is super thick during the growing seasons, but does thin and need overseeding come early fall. Hopefully the overseed of SPF will keep it thick year round!


----------



## Cdub5_

Hey everyone, 
I have a question about those who renovated their front yard WHILE living in a neighborhood that has an HOA. Did any of you ask permission to change your front yard grass from a warm season grass to a cool season grass?

I live in a neighborhood where the HOA isn't too strict at all but nonetheless it could pose a "uniformity" issue in the dormant season where everyone's yards is brown yet mine is a dark, vibrant green lol. They may not want that...

I never even thought of this potential issue until I was planning everything out for the reno starting next month. :bd:


----------



## Lem855

grassgrassgrass said:


> so if you guys had to do it over again, would you go pure SPF-30 again? or do you think it would be better to try a blend with TTTF?


I currently have a section of my backyard which is 100% SPF30 it's been flooded out probably 8-9 times and under 3-4" inches of rain that collects on a slope in our yard. It is by far the best and most resilient grass I've seen in a long time. It's still green and hasn't shown any sign of disease or damage from heat. I've decided that my other half of the yard will be renovated with the SPF30 to make things cohesive in the back. Labor day week can't come fast enough.


----------



## spartanlawn

@Cdub5_ @Green

Threw in the towel. The 0.7 certainty didn't appear to effect the spf, but wasn't a knock out to the poa t either. It did stunt it back and perhaps may have killed it with one more 0.7 application. Either way, I never nuked the front yard to start and that was probably a critical error. My backyard is looking good with this being it's first summer so I'm going to start over in the front and follow my process from last year.

I hit the front with a 3x dose of round up. Will do it again in a week and the some lower doses the remainder of the month. Prep with tenacity in August. Drop seed labor day. I think someone referenced a soil softener. What is that and how do you use it?


----------



## cokenner

spartanlawn said:


> I think someone referenced a soil softener. What is that and how do you use it?


Are they talking about liquid aeration? I use SLS - Soil Aerator and it has worked out great on my compacted clay soil. Water puddles up A LOT less and is not so compacted anymore.

It doesn't take much, like 1oz/1000. I use an Ortho hose-end sprayer, but they also sell it in a ready to use hose-end sprayer. You can also use a pump sprayer. Gotta water it in heavily after use too to get it down into the soil.


----------



## Cdub5_

cokenner said:


> spartanlawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think someone referenced a soil softener. What is that and how do you use it?
> 
> 
> 
> Are they talking about liquid aeration? I use SLS - Soil Aerator and it has worked out great on my compacted clay soil. Water puddles up A LOT less and is not so compacted anymore.
> 
> It doesn't take much, like 1oz/1000. I use an Ortho hose-end sprayer, but they also sell it in a ready to use hose-end sprayer. You can also use a pump sprayer. Gotta water it in heavily after use too to get it down into the soil.
Click to expand...

I've used this product one time and it's hard to tell if it did anything for me but I'll keep using it :lol: . Beware though, I can't find the exact precaution but it says something similar to 'NOT use this product 30 ( or 60) days prior to laying seed.' The first time I bought that soil aerator for my reno, but had to send it back after reading the instructions/warnings.


----------



## spartanlawn

Cdub5_ said:


> cokenner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spartanlawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think someone referenced a soil softener. What is that and how do you use it?
> 
> 
> 
> Are they talking about liquid aeration? I use SLS - Soil Aerator and it has worked out great on my compacted clay soil. Water puddles up A LOT less and is not so compacted anymore.
> 
> It doesn't take much, like 1oz/1000. I use an Ortho hose-end sprayer, but they also sell it in a ready to use hose-end sprayer. You can also use a pump sprayer. Gotta water it in heavily after use too to get it down into the soil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've used this product one time and it's hard to tell if it did anything for me but I'll keep using it :lol: . Beware though, I can't find the exact precaution but it says something similar to 'NOT use this product 30 ( or 60) days prior to laying seed.' The first time I bought that soil aerator for my reno, but had to send it back after reading the instructions/warnings.
Click to expand...

@Cdub5_

@cokenner
Awesome. I ordered it. Supposedly this method is a real thing. On average, I have about one inch of soil and then clay. I'm going to apply it shortly after I receive it this week. I think the faq said minimum of four weeks before seeding. It's possible everything will be fine without it but I see lots of upside. I learn so much from everyone on here.


----------



## L337pcnoob

Boy it's been a while since i checked back in here and I see a lot of good looking spf yards!! It's been super hot here in DFW lately but I here is an update on my yard during the heat. I've neglected it a bit but starting to get back into a routine


----------



## cokenner

spartanlawn said:


> Cdub5_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cokenner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are they talking about liquid aeration? I use SLS - Soil Aerator and it has worked out great on my compacted clay soil. Water puddles up A LOT less and is not so compacted anymore.
> 
> It doesn't take much, like 1oz/1000. I use an Ortho hose-end sprayer, but they also sell it in a ready to use hose-end sprayer. You can also use a pump sprayer. Gotta water it in heavily after use too to get it down into the soil.
> 
> 
> 
> I've used this product one time and it's hard to tell if it did anything for me but I'll keep using it :lol: . Beware though, I can't find the exact precaution but it says something similar to 'NOT use this product 30 ( or 60) days prior to laying seed.' The first time I bought that soil aerator for my reno, but had to send it back after reading the instructions/warnings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @Cdub5_
> 
> @cokenner
> Awesome. I ordered it. Supposedly this method is a real thing. On average, I have about one inch of soil and then clay. I'm going to apply it shortly after I receive it this week. I think the faq said minimum of four weeks before seeding. It's possible everything will be fine without it but I see lots of upside. I learn so much from everyone on here.
Click to expand...

Yep, it's legit! And somewhat cheap considering application rates. Definitely follow the label with seeding and whatnot. I use Ryan Knorr's lawn schedule for when to apply.


----------



## Cdub5_

L337pcnoob said:


> Boy it's been a while since i checked back in here and I see a lot of good looking spf yards!! It's been super hot here in DFW lately but I here is an update on my yard during the heat. I've neglected it a bit but starting to get back into a routine


Lookin sharp, diggin the stripes! 

One thing I have to remember going from bermuda to kbg (or any other cool season grass) is that during summertime the goal is to survive with as little damage as possible. Our new grass's wheelhouse is in the spring, fall/winter. Whereas with the bermuda I would be really pushing that growth and trying to achieve that super dark green color.


----------



## klsmith259

I understand the summer isn't the peak time for *** but mine hasn't missed a best growing without being fertilized. I stress tested it some and went 2 weeks without water. So far it's held up great. The stretch of afternoon showers we are getting each day recently definitely helps. I plan to use pgr and cut it at 1-1.5 year round this next year.


----------



## cokenner

klsmith259 said:


> I understand the summer isn't the peak time for KBG but mine hasn't missed a best growing without being fertilized. I stress tested it some and went 2 weeks without water. So far it's held up great. The stretch of afternoon showers we are getting each day recently definitely helps. I plan to use pgr and cut it at 1-1.5 year round this next year.


I like the HOC idea. I now plan to do a Bluemuda with my existing Celebration Bermuda in my backyard. Been researching a lot and it will enable me to keep the HOC below 2".


----------



## CenlaLowell

anthonybilotta said:


> Anyone ever plant this stuff directly into Augustine ? My st Augustine has stopped growing for the year, but with soil temps in the 50-60s all winter, I feel like the SPF30 would be able to grow pretty well.
> 
> I hate my St Augustine


Reading this thread I have st Augustine and Bermuda mix and I'm going to kill off the st Augustine . Then I'm going to grow in the Bermuda and mix it with sph 30


----------



## grassgrassgrass

How do you guys handle 'continuous' borders with neighbors? For instance, after my rennovation I'm going to have SPF-30 up directly against St Aug on both sides of my lawn. What do you expect will happen there? Will the St Aug constantly take over my new grass? I would prefer not to do some sort of hardscape border. I'm more just curious what to expect.


----------



## Cdub5_

grassgrassgrass said:


> How do you guys handle 'continuous' borders with neighbors? For instance, after my rennovation I'm going to have SPF-30 up directly against St Aug on both sides of my lawn. What do you expect will happen there? Will the St Aug constantly take over my new grass? I would prefer not to do some sort of hardscape border. I'm more just curious what to expect.


I'm going to have bermuda next to me once I renovate my front yard. My plan is to keep it at 3". Hopefully that will block out any bermuda encroachment (not gonna happen but worth a try lol). There is probably a chemical route you can take to suppress the St. Aug from trying to take over. Just got to be careful not to kill their grass...


----------



## bill101

grassgrassgrass said:


> How do you guys handle 'continuous' borders with neighbors? For instance, after my rennovation I'm going to have SPF-30 up directly against St Aug on both sides of my lawn. What do you expect will happen there? Will the St Aug constantly take over my new grass? I would prefer not to do some sort of hardscape border. I'm more just curious what to expect.


My experience is that the St Augustine will overpower the SPF-30, and displace it. To solve that, I went the masonry hardscape route, which works well but was expensive. - Creating mulched beds and/or fences to separate the lawns would be a cheaper way to go. I think you have to find a way to separate the lawns or you will constantly be fighting invasions. IMHO

https://tropicaltexana.blogspot.com/2014/07/preventing-yard-wars-boundary-ideas.html


----------



## CenlaLowell

Has anyone in the south tried running this in their shade areas with bermuda.

https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass-seed/fescue-grass-seed/combat-extreme-southern-zone.html


----------



## TherapyRequired

CenlaLowell said:


> Has anyone in the south tried running this in their shade areas with bermuda.
> 
> https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass-seed/fescue-grass-seed/combat-extreme-southern-zone.html


I'm listening. I'm in the DFW area and some of my Bermuda under 3 elms would benefit from this.

I hope someone with experience offers their opinion.


----------



## nitrobass24

@CenlaLowell I guess you're giving up on controlling the Bermuda?

I've been looking at the Southern Extreme as well for the West side of my property that is mostly shaded as well as doing full sun test out back where its become 90% bermuda and 10% St. Aug.

Only thing that makes me nervous is that I can't control the Bermuda in my St Aug, so how would i control it in the KBG Mix?


----------



## Cdub5_

Anyone else's SPF30 getting stressed by this heat? Mine definitely is not in tip-top shape like it was this spring. I knew going into this that summer time was gonna be somewhat rough on it, just hope I'm not alone lol

Also, I feel on one half of my yard the old bermuda is trying to make a comeback!!! Have some of you had troubles with your original bermuda, or whatever kind, of grass trying to make a comeback through your SPF30? I need a good bermuda suppression plan. I'd hate to lose my beautiful SPF30 lawn in just a year or 2 because the bermuda pressure was too high to deal with... :bd:


----------



## jeffcatton

Cdub5_ said:


> Anyone else's SPF30 getting stressed by this heat? Mine definitely is not in tip-top shape like it was this spring. I knew going into this that summer time was gonna be somewhat rough on it, just hope I'm not alone lol
> 
> Also, I feel on one half of my yard the old bermuda is trying to make a comeback!!! Have some of you had troubles with your original bermuda, or whatever kind, of grass trying to make a comeback through your SPF30? I need a good bermuda suppression plan. I'd hate to lose my beautiful SPF30 lawn in just a year or 2 because the bermuda pressure was too high to deal with... :bd:


@Cdub5_ mine is doing extremely well considering the dry heat lately and 100's coming for the next couple weeks. It is drink time 😆

Mine was stressed a couple weeks ago also, I changed all my heads to hunter PGP heads and used #10 insert. I have about 80-95 psi, so each zone gets a deep water down.


----------



## jeffcatton

@Cdub5_ i went and tried again the BioAdvance for Bermuda control and put it down once a month, seems to be working much better this time, I have Bermuda on both sides of my lot … Patience is key to give it time to reduce the Bermuda.

I do use a blue die also (use 2 oz in the bio advance sprayer) so I can see the blue water when spraying. Be sure not to over spray a single spot as it burns like granular fertilizer.


----------



## CenlaLowell

nitrobass24 said:


> @CenlaLowell I guess you're giving up on controlling the Bermuda?
> 
> I've been looking at the Southern Extreme as well for the West side of my property that is mostly shaded as well as doing full sun test out back where its become 90% bermuda and 10% St. Aug.
> 
> Only thing that makes me nervous is that I can't control the Bermuda in my St Aug, so how would i control it in the KBG Mix?


Yep given up. I had a hella of alot of st Augustine, but the fungus every year even if I sprayed a fungicide is something I can't handle long term. You just let both turfs live together.


----------



## CenlaLowell

TherapyRequired said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone in the south tried running this in their shade areas with bermuda.
> 
> https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass-seed/fescue-grass-seed/combat-extreme-southern-zone.html
> 
> 
> 
> I'm listening. I'm in the DFW area and some of my Bermuda under 3 elms would benefit from this.
> 
> I hope someone with experience offers their opinion.
Click to expand...

This dude in dfw check his channel out


----------



## cokenner

jeffcatton said:


> Cdub5_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else's SPF30 getting stressed by this heat? Mine definitely is not in tip-top shape like it was this spring. I knew going into this that summer time was gonna be somewhat rough on it, just hope I'm not alone lol
> 
> Also, I feel on one half of my yard the old bermuda is trying to make a comeback!!! Have some of you had troubles with your original bermuda, or whatever kind, of grass trying to make a comeback through your SPF30? I need a good bermuda suppression plan. I'd hate to lose my beautiful SPF30 lawn in just a year or 2 because the bermuda pressure was too high to deal with... :bd:
> 
> 
> 
> @Cdub5_ mine is doing extremely well considering the dry heat lately and 100's coming for the next couple weeks. It is drink time 😆
> 
> Mine was stressed a couple weeks ago also, I changed all my heads to hunter PGP heads and used #10 insert. I have about 80-95 psi, so each zone gets a deep water down.
Click to expand...

What heads did you have before?


----------



## jeffcatton

cokenner said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cdub5_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else's SPF30 getting stressed by this heat? Mine definitely is not in tip-top shape like it was this spring. I knew going into this that summer time was gonna be somewhat rough on it, just hope I'm not alone lol
> 
> Also, I feel on one half of my yard the old bermuda is trying to make a comeback!!! Have some of you had troubles with your original bermuda, or whatever kind, of grass trying to make a comeback through your SPF30? I need a good bermuda suppression plan. I'd hate to lose my beautiful SPF30 lawn in just a year or 2 because the bermuda pressure was too high to deal with... :bd:
> 
> 
> 
> @Cdub5_ mine is doing extremely well considering the dry heat lately and 100's coming for the next couple weeks. It is drink time 😆
> 
> Mine was stressed a couple weeks ago also, I changed all my heads to hunter PGP heads and used #10 insert. I have about 80-95 psi, so each zone gets a deep water down.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What heads did you have before?
Click to expand...

I was using a smaller rain bird rotary and some where simple pop-up's.


----------



## Cdub5_

@jeffcatton Yours is looking great!

Half of my yard is looking great (besides dog spots), the other half is struggling. I didn't have proper fungicide down and this half of the yard took a hit.

That's an interesting product, I need to look into it because I'm definitely going to need a good bermuda suppression plan for my front yard after I reno it here shortly.


----------



## jeffcatton

Cdub5_ said:


> @jeffcatton Yours is looking great!
> 
> Half of my yard is looking great (besides dog spots), the other half is struggling. I didn't have proper fungicide down and this half of the yard took a hit.
> 
> That's an interesting product, I need to look into it because I'm definitely going to need a good bermuda suppression plan for my front yard after I reno it here shortly.


You grass looks so soft and cool ... as for the grass on the right, have you ever tried DOC's Super Juice? I used it when I burn my grass, bounced right back in 2-3 weeks ... amazing stuff. Get a good water sprayer from Amazon ... _*The Andersons Refillable Multipurpose Hose-End Sprayer 32oz (Pack of 2)*_

I need to look into fungicide, I have never used any in all my years of KBG (20+ years).


----------



## Lem855

Has anyone in DfW thought about mixing in fescue with SPF30, seems to be the thing now. https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass-seed/fescue-grass-seed/combat-extreme-southern-zone.html

I'm really considering this for my other half on my yard and possibly reseeding the 100% SPF30 portion to even things out.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I've also been watching the The DIY channel guy seems to be onto something.


----------



## Cdub5_

@jeffcatton Thank you, yes the grass is super lush and soft.
No, I haven't tried any of his stuff. 
The problem I have with that half of the yard is, well, because of my neighbor's trees. These tress shoot out CAT5ish wire roots in a web-like fashion that has totally infested the ground. Grass will dry up super fast, even the bermuda that was there prior struggled. I need to dig up that area to the depth of like 2 feet and clear out the roots, but I don't want to damage their trees...
As far as fungus I had major brown patch on this side coupled with heat stress. Next year I'm going to cut this grass around 2" rather than 3.25". The humidity mixed with the taller grass allowed fungus to go rampant, but I've learned my lesson and will have a good fungicide program next year.


----------



## Cdub5_

@Lem855 You know, I was just about to bring up a conversation about mixing SPF30 with a heat tolerant tttf in my front reno I'm about to start on.
I like to try new things and from the cool season forums there are some absolutely lovely kbg/tttf yards. My front is full sun so I would need something up to the task.
But I'd be interested in people's results that have mixed the two in the transition zone or further south into the warm climate areas...


----------



## Lem855

@Cdub5_ the guy from Dallas in the DIY channel on this thread had mentioned that his seed came from CGI turf, my guess is that it is the Blue heat variety,looks pretty good. If you were to mix in tttf what brand would you use? The more I read into the mixing seed the more I see the brand SPF30 being the choice brand for hybrid grasses.


----------



## spartanlawn

@Cdub5_ @Lem855

I liked the advantages of kbg over fescue including what I understand to be kbg's ability to self repair and continue to thicken every season. While the fescue established in my yard looked similar, I could definitely tell a difference with fescue having at times a different shade and a tufted shape. Because kbg seemed superior for these reasons for me, I didn't see the point in diluting it with the lesser advantageous grass. Me being predisposed toward the lazy side, the fescue seemed to be an unnecessary added hassle. I assumed over time if I didn't overseed the fescue annually, it would eventually all be gone. Admittedly, that was all of research. Do you see compelling benefits to a mixture?


----------



## Cdub5_

@spartanlawn Yeah you are right.
I don't think I would see any particular benefit in mixing the spf30 with a tttf rather than the reason of "just to do it". My back yard looks so beautiful when things are right, so "if it ain't broke don't fix it" should apply here.

Although, in my backyard I did mix my SPF30 with Midnight bluegrass. I was hoping the Midnight would really deepen the color, and the color I get is really amazing. So I think I definitely benefited from mixing the two bluegrasses, and I think I'll do the same when I reno the front yard starting in the next few days.


----------



## klsmith259

Cut at 2.5 inches. You can see burn spots from the dog but it fills in pretty quickly.


----------



## jeffcatton

klsmith259 said:


> Cut at 2.5 inches. You can see burn spots from the dog but it fills in pretty quickly.


@klsmith259 NICE ! Do you find it getting a lot thicker / resilient the longer you have been growing KBG?

Jeff


----------



## klsmith259

Over the course of the summer it has thinned out but filled back in. I've noticed new growth is darker and has wider blades (especially on the edge of the urine burn spots). I'm excited for the cooler weather to de-thatch, scalp, and start cutting with the reel mower. I may try to level a little with sand but lightly. The turf is so thick at times my rotary cuts it but it isn't optimal.


----------



## CenlaLowell

klsmith259 said:


> Cut at 2.5 inches. You can see burn spots from the dog but it fills in pretty quickly.


Nice lawn


----------



## klsmith259

CenlaLowell said:


> klsmith259 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cut at 2.5 inches. You can see burn spots from the dog but it fills in pretty quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice lawn
Click to expand...

Thank you! I'm open for suggestions on improving the lawn. I plan to put a few black diamond crape myrtles along the back fence but that's all for now.


----------



## CenlaLowell

klsmith259 said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> klsmith259 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cut at 2.5 inches. You can see burn spots from the dog but it fills in pretty quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice lawn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you! I'm open for suggestions on improving the lawn. I plan to put a few black diamond crape myrtles along the back fence but that's all for now.
Click to expand...

Do you have the Bermuda mixed in the spf 30?


----------



## Lem855

@Cdub5_ I really like the choice you made of mixing in the midnight kbg with the SPF30. By chance what percentage of mix were you using? I have to reno my other half of my back yard and also order just a separate bag of midnight for my small SPF30 test plot to make everything look uniform

Also would anyone recommend pre germinating the seed going into this reno in the DFW area in September or is our weather long enough for mother nature and kbg to do their thing?

"Come on September daddy needs a new yard!"


----------



## Cdub5_

Lem855 said:


> @Cdub5_ I really like the choice you made of mixing in the midnight kbg with the SPF30. By chance what percentage of mix were you using? I have to reno my other half of my back yard and also order just a separate bag of midnight for my small SPF30 test plot to make everything look uniform
> 
> Also would anyone recommend pre germinating the seed going into this reno in the DFW area in September or is our weather long enough for mother nature and kbg to do their thing?
> 
> "Come on September daddy needs a new yard!"


Thank you. What I did was somewhat unconventional. I put down the original SPF30 seed at the lower end of the recommended rate. Few weeks later applied a bit more SPF30. Eventually, after around 45 days of my initial seeding I was noticing some obvious spots lacking in coverage, and this is when I applied the Midnight around the middle of it's recommended seed rate.

I don't notice any color variations, but whatever did grow looks really fantastic.

I'm currently reno'ing my front, but this time I'll be applying both types, SPF30 and Midnight, at the same time at the higher end of the recommended seeding rate.

I am definitely going to try the pre-germination method. No since of spending weeks of watering the entire lawn when I can just soak the seed for 5 days. Doing this obviously helps cut down on the length of the entire process because while I'm performing the last needed steps to the yard the grass seed can already start it's growing process.


----------



## klsmith259

CenlaLowell said:


> klsmith259 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice lawn
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! I'm open for suggestions on improving the lawn. I plan to put a few black diamond crape myrtles along the back fence but that's all for now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have the Bermuda mixed in the spf 30?
Click to expand...

I do not have Bermuda mixed in. There is some fescue here and there (especially at the edge of the river rocks) that came back after the reno. My front yard is Bermuda.


----------



## CenlaLowell

klsmith259 said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> klsmith259 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! I'm open for suggestions on improving the lawn. I plan to put a few black diamond crape myrtles along the back fence but that's all for now.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have the Bermuda mixed in the spf 30?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do not have Bermuda mixed in. There is some fescue here and there (especially at the edge of the river rocks) that came back after the reno. My front yard is Bermuda.
Click to expand...

What I'm thinking is I'll get to a full Bermuda lawn and after that I will Overseed spf 30 in the most shaded areas. I have no idea how that will look


----------



## Cdub5_

@CenlaLowell Depending on how high you want to maintain will be the key. If you are reel mowing I think it should look ok, but if you plan on keeping it 3" plus I'd say it's a no go.

From the bermuda pressure I'm seeing in my lawn there is a clear and definitive difference in the growth pattern. The SPF30 is super dark green and lush, but the most important characteristic is it grows straight up. Bermuda, at least that is invading my bluegrass, is a sideways grower and it definitely conflicts with the uniform look of the kbg.

That's why I'm trying all I can do right now to rid or at least suppress the bermuda growth in my current SPF30/Midnight lawn.

Edit: I see you mentioned you want to put the SPF30 in the most shaded area. That may work, but in my most shaded areas I'm having a somewhat tough time getting the grass to thrive once it established. Actually, I've been looking into some tttf to throw in these areas...


----------



## CenlaLowell

Cdub5_ said:


> @CenlaLowell Depending on how high you want to maintain will be the key. If you are reel mowing I think it should look ok, but if you plan on keeping it 3" plus I'd say it's a no go.
> 
> From the bermuda pressure I'm seeing in my lawn there is a clear and definitive difference in the growth pattern. The SPF30 is super dark green and lush, but the most important characteristic is it grows straight up. Bermuda, at least that is invading my bluegrass, is a sideways grower and it definitely conflicts with the uniform look of the kbg.
> 
> That's why I'm trying all I can do right now to rid or at least suppress the bermuda growth in my current SPF30/Midnight lawn.
> 
> Edit: I see you mentioned you want to put the SPF30 in the most shaded area. That may work, but in my most shaded areas I'm having a somewhat tough time getting the grass to thrive once it established. Actually, I've been looking into some tttf to throw in these areas...


 Yeah I have a lot of crepe myrtles and the bigger they get the more shade the Bermuda will have to fight against. Outside pride company has another blend that has spf30 and tttf in it that I was thinking about trying as well. I want my hoc to eventually be 2 inches but I have alot of leveling to do first. Decisions, decisions, decisions

Thanks for the information


----------



## CenlaLowell

This is the one I'm talking about @Cdub5_



I'm in zone 8


----------



## thompwa

CenlaLowell said:


> This is the one I'm talking about @Cdub5_
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in zone 8


I actually used this seed blend in my back yard when I renovated last year. I had fescue before but didn't like the cultivars. I'm in 7a. This stuff has done really well. This year I'm overseeding with the same blend but I'm adding in a heavier ratio of SPF30. In my opinion this will not blend well with Bermuda.


----------



## Cdub5_

@CenlaLowell I've been really interested in how that blend turns out.

I wish I had 10 different yards so I could try everything lol


----------



## CenlaLowell

Cdub5_ said:


> @CenlaLowell I've been really interested in how that blend turns out.
> 
> I wish I had 10 different yards so I could try everything lol


Lol I know what you mean. I've watched YouTube videos with people having fescue and Bermuda that didn't look bad at all. Hopefully I can be finish my renovation so I can try in October


----------



## CenlaLowell

thompwa said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the one I'm talking about @Cdub5_
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in zone 8
> 
> 
> 
> I actually used this seed blend in my back yard when I renovated last year. I had fescue before but didn't like the cultivars. I'm in 7a. This stuff has done really well. This year I'm overseeding with the same blend but I'm adding in a heavier ratio of SPF30. In my opinion this will not blend well with Bermuda.
Click to expand...

When you over seed what are the steps you take?


----------



## thompwa

CenlaLowell said:


> thompwa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the one I'm talking about @Cdub5_
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in zone 8
> 
> 
> 
> I actually used this seed blend in my back yard when I renovated last year. I had fescue before but didn't like the cultivars. I'm in 7a. This stuff has done really well. This year I'm overseeding with the same blend but I'm adding in a heavier ratio of SPF30. In my opinion this will not blend well with Bermuda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you over seed what are the steps you take?
Click to expand...

When I overseed into my current TTTF/spf30 this fall I will just mow it a notch or two lower than normal, remove any dead/thatch buildup and expose a little soil, (insert aerating here if you want to), then throw down my seed. This year I'll be adding the step of spraying some growth regulator on my existing grass because typically the existing turf is growing so quickly in the fall that it outpaces my new seed. Hoping the PGR will give my new seed more time to establish before the rest of the yard needs cutting


----------



## cokenner

CenlaLowell said:


> klsmith259 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have the Bermuda mixed in the spf 30?
> 
> 
> 
> I do not have Bermuda mixed in. There is some fescue here and there (especially at the edge of the river rocks) that came back after the reno. My front yard is Bermuda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What I'm thinking is I'll get to a full Bermuda lawn and after that I will Overseed spf 30 in the most shaded areas. I have no idea how that will look
Click to expand...

I just ordered my seed and plan to do a monostand in the front yard and bluemuda in my backyard. I have celebration bermuda that had a great summer, so I couldn't bring myself to kill it off. Found lots of resources for maintaining a bluemuda lawn, so that's what I'm shooting for. Seems like it's only doable in the transition zone, granted I've not seen anything in my zone (7b N. Texas). I'll try to keep photos of my process/progress as I go along.


----------



## TylUmp

Has anyone used Tenacity when seeding SPF-30? I had major issues with nutsedge when I seeded last year.


----------



## klsmith259

I used Tenacity (Scotts Starter Fertilizer with weed preventer) about a year ago and didn't have any issues with nutsedge. I used quality compost and topsoil at the time. The lawn before was mostly free of weeds. I even tilled the soil as well.


----------



## spartanlawn

@TylUmp yes, I put down tenacity right before seed then again after second mowing. Has worked great the first time I tried it last year in back yard reno. Will be trying for a second time on the front yard in a few weeks. I switched to the genetic to save a few bucks (meso 4 SC select).


----------



## NEBBERCRACKER

jeffcatton said:


> Cdub5_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else's SPF30 getting stressed by this heat? Mine definitely is not in tip-top shape like it was this spring. I knew going into this that summer time was gonna be somewhat rough on it, just hope I'm not alone lol
> 
> Also, I feel on one half of my yard the old bermuda is trying to make a comeback!!! Have some of you had troubles with your original bermuda, or whatever kind, of grass trying to make a comeback through your SPF30? I need a good bermuda suppression plan. I'd hate to lose my beautiful SPF30 lawn in just a year or 2 because the bermuda pressure was too high to deal with... :bd:
> 
> 
> 
> @Cdub5_ mine is doing extremely well considering the dry heat lately and 100's coming for the next couple weeks. It is drink time 😆
> 
> Mine was stressed a couple weeks ago also, I changed all my heads to hunter PGP heads and used #10 insert. I have about 80-95 psi, so each zone gets a deep water down.
Click to expand...

@jeffcatton 
your lawn looks great. what is your lawn care regimen? what ferts do you use and do you use any bio solids? what all do you do? I am going to try to mix this SPF-30 with my Barenbrug Turf saver TTTF here in NE GA this fall. Any pointers would be great.
Thanks


----------



## NEBBERCRACKER

To all who are using what is your lawn care regimen? what ferts do you use and do you use any bio solids? what all do you do? I am going to try to mix this SPF-30 with my Barenbrug Turf saver TTTF here in NE GA this fall. Any pointers would be great.
Thanks


----------



## MrTophatJones

Is anyone reel mowing this? I noticed outsidepride says optimal mow height is 2-5 inches. I have a 500sqft area that is currently bermuda I am thinking of replacing with spf-30.


----------



## klsmith259

In a few months I will reel mow it. I plan to keep it at 1.5-2 inches and maintain that all year. At least that's the plan. When I seeded my lawn I was using a manual reel mower at 1 inch to help it spread. Since then I've been mowing it with my rotary at 2.5 inches since it was the first summer/hot season.


----------



## jeffcatton

NEBBERCRACKER said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cdub5_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else's SPF30 getting stressed by this heat? Mine definitely is not in tip-top shape like it was this spring. I knew going into this that summer time was gonna be somewhat rough on it, just hope I'm not alone lol
> 
> Also, I feel on one half of my yard the old bermuda is trying to make a comeback!!! Have some of you had troubles with your original bermuda, or whatever kind, of grass trying to make a comeback through your SPF30? I need a good bermuda suppression plan. I'd hate to lose my beautiful SPF30 lawn in just a year or 2 because the bermuda pressure was too high to deal with... :bd:
> 
> 
> 
> @Cdub5_ mine is doing extremely well considering the dry heat lately and 100's coming for the next couple weeks. It is drink time 😆
> 
> Mine was stressed a couple weeks ago also, I changed all my heads to hunter PGP heads and used #10 insert. I have about 80-95 psi, so each zone gets a deep water down.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @jeffcatton
> your lawn looks great. what is your lawn care regimen? what ferts do you use and do you use any bio solids? what all do you do? I am going to try to mix this SPF-30 with my Barenbrug Turf saver TTTF here in NE GA this fall. Any pointers would be great.
> Thanks
Click to expand...

@NEBBERCRACKER Your yard is looking amazing too! A couple years from now the KBG gets stronger/thicker/darker too. I am doing only two things this year including all summer, alternating every 2 weeks ... I don't use anything else than this.

1) BioAdvance for Bermuda control (start of week 1), nothing on week 2
2) Doc's Super Juice (formula provided earlier) (start of week 3) nothing on week 4
.... repeat to #1

I have only SPF30 and no TTF. Cutting at highest height for the summer and lower as the temp comes down. I also cut every 3-4 days.

Hope that helps 
Others have provided their regimen also, hope they can share the experience and pics (they are yards in DFW area are awesome too). I was speaking with a yard guy yesterday, he could not believe I grew KBG in DFW ... good thing I can prove it  and it is even better in the later fall / winter / spring when everyone else is brown.

More info from others on alternative solutions - page 23
DOC's Super Juice -> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=393665#p393665

Super Juice Formula I use -> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=389899#p389899


----------



## jeffcatton

@NEBBERCRACKER

One more thing ... here are the new pop-up heads (rectangle 30'x4') I put in on the Front road area, this has made a huge difference in grass quality (green and not stressed) by water from the top and not just the drip line. Looking to do the same on the garage side. https://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/rain-bird-center-strip-nozzle-4-ft-x-30-ft-15cst

Get my parts from https://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/


----------



## Cdub5_

@jeffcatton Man your yard really is looking great!

I can't wait to get another year or two of root growth out of my kbg, it's just now about to turn one year old 

The past few days the temps have gone from ~95F to about ~85F and just from this drop my yard already looks ready to start thriving again for this fall. I'm actually about to spoon feed it it's first nitrogen meal since late spring.


----------



## spartanlawn

@Cdub5_ @jeffcatton 
Re: recent rainfall. I swear we have been very dry this year. It didn't show on the precipitation maps but I mean these storms this summer skip around us and I live in a big county. Has anyone put their hands on super local rainfall totals based on gps? I could use a rain gauge but we have very little open sky on my lot. Does anyone have a trusty digital/wifi one they could recommend maybe I could find a spot even though it wouldn't be convenient to empty regularly.

So declaring it a particularly brutal summer, I have a lot of bounce back needed to get back to where I was two months ago. I haven't treated with tenacity or fertilized since May. My irrigation has run once every two/three days in the morning for 2.5 hours. Cutting at 4 in. It's just been enough to keep it green and alive. It has thinned considerably probably by 30-40%. When we do get rain it perks up so I am hopeful that it will be ready to charge.

I'm thinking I'll go ahead and fertilize soon and the following week start treating weeds. Any remaining large holes will get some seed on Labor Day along with the front yard (dead since July 4th awaiting reno).


----------



## Cdub5_

@spartanlawn I'm not sure about any rain gauges. Here in Oklahoma we have a mesonet website that tracks all that info.
As far as putting pre-m down I sprayed my 4 month app of prodiamine down in late July. I noticed crabgrass starting to grow, but I mainly want to make damn sure that poa a growth is halted completely, or at leas very little growth this season. Fingers crossed lol


----------



## Lem855

So I caved in and changed my mine on a mixed seed turf, and just sticking with SPF30 as my new lawn reno section to match my smaller test plot. Now starts the process of killing everything in the reno section with multiple applications of glyphosate. I have what was the remnants of KBG 31 and mostly unwanted common bermuda and a host of weeds. So the burn is needed. I do plan to dig up the soil and pull out all of the common bermuda like my previous test plot and level everything off as best as possible. 
I will go through the process of pre germinating the seed and mixing it with Milorganite to sow the seed it in. 
I purchased Tenacity to apply to the soil but am not sure as to when to apply so as to not screw up the germinating process. Hope you guys can advise me on that. Also wondering if the Temps are right. We are still in the mid to high 90's but I feel like it's gonna be a month before I can kill all the grass and any weeds from tilling up the soil and leveling it off. 
Any thoughts would be welcomed especially from our Oklahoma DFW neighbors. This ARLINGTON TX guy doesn't want to live in mud longer than I have to. Lol


----------



## cokenner

Lem855 said:


> So I caved in and changed my mine on a mixed seed turf, and just sticking with SPF30 as my new lawn reno section to match my smaller test plot. Now starts the process of killing everything in the reno section with multiple applications of glyphosate. I have what was the remnants of KBG 31 and mostly unwanted common bermuda and a host of weeds. So the burn is needed. I do plan to dig up the soil and pull out all of the common bermuda like my previous test plot and level everything off as best as possible.
> I will go through the process of pre germinating the seed and mixing it with Milorganite to sow the seed it in.
> I purchased Tenacity to apply to the soil but am not sure as to when to apply so as to not screw up the germinating process. Hope you guys can advise me on that. Also wondering if the Temps are right. We are still in the mid to high 90's but I feel like it's gonna be a month before I can kill all the grass and any weeds from tilling up the soil and leveling it off.
> Any thoughts would be welcomed especially from our Oklahoma DFW neighbors. This ARLINGTON TX guy doesn't want to live in mud longer than I have to. Lol


Pretty much in the same boat as you in Wichita Falls. Never hear of pre germinating the seed, interesting.

As for Tenacity, put it down at seed down. It won't prevent grass seed from germinating. I plan to do 3-4 applications about every 3 weeks into November.

Temp-wise, the earlier you get the seed down the better. A lot of folks here were seeding in June! I'm seeding Labor Day weekend. Started nuking August 1st and have done 3 apps of glyphosate so far. Might do a 4th in the next week to ensure all the Bermuda is gone. Scalp/dethatch, then top dress and level the week before seeding. After dropping the seed I'll spray my first app of tenacity and top dress a light layer of peat moss.

I'm also overseeding into my backyard for Bluemuda. Hope thus helps!


----------



## Lem855

[/quote]

Pretty much in the same boat as you in Wichita Falls. Never hear of pre germinating the seed, interesting.

As for Tenacity, put it down at seed down. It won't prevent grass seed from germinating. I plan to do 3-4 applications about every 3 weeks into November.

Temp-wise, the earlier you get the seed down the better. A lot of folks here were seeding in June! I'm seeding Labor Day weekend. Started nuking August 1st and have done 3 apps of glyphosate so far. Might do a 4th in the next week to ensure all the Bermuda is gone. Scalp/dethatch, then top dress and level the week before seeding. After dropping the seed I'll spray my first app of tenacity and top dress a light layer of peat moss.

I'm also overseeding into my backyard for Bluemuda. Hope thus helps!
[/quote]
Wow I thought I was early for a reno in DFW and you already started. Glad to know I'm no crazy yet! Pre germinating seed is just a jump start to get those babies dancing before the 21 day period that it took last time. I'm hope that withing 7-10 I'll see seedlings with this process. There a few good videos on the general process and Milorganite website has directions on each grass type I've been told. I think KBG is 3-4 days of a soak in permeable bag with water changed every 12 hours is all we will need to get it going.


----------



## Cdub5_

@Lem855 Last fall I started my back yard reno about this time. This was my first ever so I was kinda surprised at how long it took to kill off the bermuda. I ended up getting seed down about Sept. 20th. By fault of my own I didn't put enough seed down initially and pretty much went all winter with a somewhat splotchy green lawn, but by April I had the best lawn I have ever had by a longshot.

This year I started my front yard reno in late July and started applying my gly treatments. I will be pre germinating this go around because of how long it takes for this seed to germinate.  I actually have an open thread I just started about applying Tenacity with pre-germinated seeds.

You are going to absolutely love this grass. Whenever I started getting into lawn care I could never get my rotary cut bermuda to look awesome, but this kbg lawn is everything I could have ever hoped for. Just go into it knowing the summer months can take it's toll on this grass so don't get discouraged. My lawn was looking toasty, but after a week of 70-80 degree temps it is already looking lush again. Make sure you have a bermuda suppression regimen in place, because bermuda will come back with a vengeance. The most important I would say is have your fungicide prevention program in place. Azoxy and prop rotation should get you started.

Good luck!! This grass is absolutely beautiful and I'm sure you will be just as happy as the rest of us who took the leap of faith with this grass.


----------



## cokenner

Pretty much in the same boat as you in Wichita Falls. Never hear of pre germinating the seed, interesting.

As for Tenacity, put it down at seed down. It won't prevent grass seed from germinating. I plan to do 3-4 applications about every 3 weeks into November.

Temp-wise, the earlier you get the seed down the better. A lot of folks here were seeding in June! I'm seeding Labor Day weekend. Started nuking August 1st and have done 3 apps of glyphosate so far. Might do a 4th in the next week to ensure all the Bermuda is gone. Scalp/dethatch, then top dress and level the week before seeding. After dropping the seed I'll spray my first app of tenacity and top dress a light layer of peat moss.

I'm also overseeding into my backyard for Bluemuda. Hope thus helps!
[/quote]
Wow I thought I was early for a reno in DFW and you already started. Glad to know I'm no crazy yet! Pre germinating seed is just a jump start to get those babies dancing before the 21 day period that it took last time. I'm hope that withing 7-10 I'll see seedlings with this process. There a few good videos on the general process and Milorganite website has directions on each grass type I've been told. I think KBG is 3-4 days of a soak in permeable bag with water changed every 12 hours is all we will need to get it going.
[/quote]

I may try pregerminating my backyard. Time to over-research and obsess!


----------



## jeffcatton

Exciting to see everyone getting ready for planting SPF-30 in the fall. One trick I saw someone here was to use MULCH LOCK spray to lock the seeds and dirt without affecting the performance of sprouts. Hope that is a trick worth sharing!

All the best this fall


----------



## klsmith259

I would recommend Mulch Lock, peat Moss, "clean top soil" (soil3, etc), or weedless straw (not thick heavy straw mats). The straw mat's are too heavy/thick at least in my experience.

I'm hoping to de-thatch and really thicken up my existing SPF-30. Next year will be one year of establishment! woohoo!


----------



## spartanlawn

I redid my back yard in September 2020. I would guess my grass thinned by 50% this summer. We were very very dry in my opinion. I did very little weed management or fertilizing since early June I think. There has been more rain the last 1.5 weeks, many have been downpours. This past weekend I put a little granular fertilizer to it. I dropped tenacity on it yesterday as with this kind of thinning, weeds have taken advantage. I'll see what overseeing is necessary over the next two weeks depending on any bounce back with hopefully increasingly favorable weather. I think that gives me the opportunity to treat again with tenacity and fertilizer with any new seed also at the same time.


----------



## CorpRaider

I am trying this grass out in 7b in NC. I've had some problems getting any germination at all in test trays outside with watering trays and humidity domes (down on 08/14), so hopefully I can figure it out.

If I do actually make it to seeding the lawn, I was thinking about applying the scotts starter fert with tenacity after the seedlings get going so I don't "roid up" my TTTF and creping fescue while my bluegrass lies there forever before even starting. Also was thinking about trying pre-germination (but I thought test trays with jiffy potting mix and humidity domes would be easy mode).


----------



## Lem855

CorpRaider said:


> I am trying this grass out in 7b in NC. I've had some problems getting any germination at all in test trays outside with watering trays and humidity domes (down on 08/14), so hopefully I can figure it out.
> 
> If I do actually make it to seeding the lawn, I was thinking about applying the scotts starter fert with tenacity after the seedlings get going so I don't "roid up" my TTTF and creping fescue while my bluegrass lies there forever before even starting. Also was thinking about trying pre-germination (but I thought test trays with jiffy potting mix and humidity domes would be easy mode).


I'm of the same mindset, I truly hope that pre germination will make the difference in getting it started. 
Finaly made my fist application of glyphosate and now it's just a waiting game for apps 2-3. I have been looking at adding more composted soil mix w topsoil when the burn is done. I hope this makes a big difference for what's to come 🙏


----------



## jeffcatton

CorpRaider said:


> I am trying this grass out in 7b in NC. I've had some problems getting any germination at all in test trays outside with watering trays and humidity domes (down on 08/14), so hopefully I can figure it out.
> 
> If I do actually make it to seeding the lawn, I was thinking about applying the scotts starter fert with tenacity after the seedlings get going so I don't "roid up" my TTTF and creping fescue while my bluegrass lies there forever before even starting. Also was thinking about trying pre-germination (but I thought test trays with jiffy potting mix and humidity domes would be easy mode).


@CorpRaider for germination of SPF-30 KBG in DFW area, mine sprouted in less than a week with starter fert and good watering schedule to keep it moist all day. It should not lay there forever without some action. Good luck!


----------



## CorpRaider

jeffcatton said:


> @CorpRaider for germination of SPF-30 KBG in DFW area, mine sprouted in less than a week with starter fert and good watering schedule to keep it moist all day. It should not lay there forever without some action. Good luck!


Thanks! Sheesh, I wonder what happened. Domes have visible moisture and I checked them multiple times per day. It did shoot up to the mid 90's and we got a lot of storms. Maybe I got them too wet with the catch trays underneath or something. I have attempted to start a wet paper towel test today (in a partially zipped plastic bag in window sill). Seed from outside pride.

@Lem855 I just did the first round of gly too. I might be seeding a bigger area than I planned. Once I got started, I couldn't help but hit most of the common bermuda. :lol: I can't find any peat moss around here. Probably will try potting soil or mix some sand and compost in most areas. I was looking at coconut coir or whatever but that looks like a pain in the ***.

I like to do stuff like this on/around labor day weekend (favorite holiday...working in the yard, watching the foolsball), but it's supposed to be like 97 degree heat index here so I'm probably not in a big hurry.


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## klsmith259

In my experience the seeds like to be damp and not get soaked although they will still grow. Using a shrub spray head on one section of the yard yielded the best results compared to other areas watered with traditional rotors.


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## CorpRaider

klsmith259 said:


> In my experience the seeds like to be damp and not get soaked although they will still grow. Using a shrub spray head on one section of the yard yielded the best results compared to other areas watered with traditional rotors.


Thanks for the info. Your lawn looks amazing and was part of the inspiration to try it out. I do seem to have successfully grown some green algae in at least one cell, so maybe it was overly wet and some will come up at some point.


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## Lem855

jeffcatton said:


> Exciting to see everyone getting ready for planting SPF-30 in the fall. One trick I saw someone here was to use MULCH LOCK spray to lock the seeds and dirt without affecting the performance of sprouts. Hope that is a trick worth sharing!
> 
> All the best this fall


I'm surely using the mulch lock stuff as I had alot of seed floating and it did a number on the strength and health of the turf. 
So my next question to the group did anyone experience any damage over the summer with heat and the high heat Index? It did a number on my test plot but I'm not giving up yet. See pics of my before and after, so 😔 sad.


----------



## jeffcatton

Lem855 said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exciting to see everyone getting ready for planting SPF-30 in the fall. One trick I saw someone here was to use MULCH LOCK spray to lock the seeds and dirt without affecting the performance of sprouts. Hope that is a trick worth sharing!
> 
> All the best this fall
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surely using the mulch lock stuff as I had alot of seed floating and it did a number on the strength and health of the turf.
> So my next question to the group did anyone experience any damage over the summer with heat and the high heat Index? It did a number on my test plot but I'm not giving up yet. See pics of my before and after, so 😔 sad.
Click to expand...

@Lem855 OMG ... that cannot be the same patch of grass, right? Was there a major drought with no water for months? I have never see it like this. Even at 100+ this summer and still pushing 99 each day, this is mine right now? Did something major happen?


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## Lem855

The only thing I can see is that root lengths are very shallow. I can almost pull the grass out by hand. At best the roots are no deeper than 2 inches. It's perplexing at best. I watered on every 3 day cycle for 25 minutes at a time during the heat spells and still do. We did have severe flooding during the summer where the grass was under water until it drained and ran off. Not sure if this contributed to poor root development and obviously the condition its now in. I'm even contemplating starting over in this plot when I do the next section which never floods. I'm curious if people with kbg in flood zones have these similar issues.


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## klsmith259

That can happen with extremely compacted soil or something below the soil where the roots can't dig deeper. Is there anything reflecting sun on your yard that gets hotter than normal sunlight or filtered light? I have one area at the top of my hill that struggles now because it feels heavily compacted even though it has been tilled and aerated.


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## klsmith259

CorpRaider said:


> klsmith259 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In my experience the seeds like to be damp and not get soaked although they will still grow. Using a shrub spray head on one section of the yard yielded the best results compared to other areas watered with traditional rotors.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info. Your lawn looks amazing and was part of the inspiration to try it out. I do seem to have successfully grown some green algae in at least one cell, so maybe it was overly wet and some will come up at some point.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'm glad it was of inspiration. Good luck!


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## Lem855

klsmith259 said:


> That can happen with extremely compacted soil or something below the soil where the roots can't dig deeper. Is there anything reflecting sun on your yard that gets hotter than normal sunlight or filtered light? I have one area at the top of my hill that struggles now because it feels heavily compacted even though it has been tilled and aerated.


I had the same ideas as you outlined, compacted soil. When it poured the water runoff would collect on the grass and take hours to drain. I'm looking for any liquid solution that would soften the soil or even rent a tiller and start again in a few weeks to ensure less compaction. 
Advice is greatly appreciated 🙏


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## grassgrassgrass

@Lem855 did you seed in Spring? I wonder if others with more success through the summer were coming off a Fall seeding while maybe you tried Spring? maybe your shallow roots are just under-developed.


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## Lem855

grassgrassgrass said:


> @Lem855 did you seed in Spring? I wonder if others with more success through the summer were coming off a Fall seeding while maybe you tried Spring? maybe your shallow roots are just under-developed.


Yes, I seeded in the springs and things looked great, till the yard started to flood from the heavy rains we had. It was a lot. 
From my research it looks like the roots couldn't get the needed oxygen because the ground was flooded due to the grade of the lawn. I've since have called around for quotes and will have delivery of 4 yards of soil with compost and nutrients to bring up the grade of this section and my other section that I'm redoing. This should raise the lawn by 3 inches and water will slope and run off away from the lawn quicker. Lets hope that this fall things look a bit different, maybe even like Jeffcatton :thumbup:


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## grassgrassgrass

@jeffcatton you've clearly hit a stride with your SPF lawn here in DFW. would you characterize your soil there in the front as heavy clay typical of the region? I too seeded a bit of SPF in the Spring this year, and I can still easily pull it up by hand. I'm wondering if the lack of root development is because I seeded in the Fall, or some other reason like soil quality or watering schedule.


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## jeffcatton

grassgrassgrass said:


> @jeffcatton you've clearly hit a stride with your SPF lawn here in DFW. would you characterize your soil there in the front as heavy clay typical of the region? I too seeded a bit of SPF in the Spring this year, and I can still easily pull it up by hand. I'm wondering if the lack of root development is because I seeded in the Fall, or some other reason like soil quality or watering schedule.


@grassgrassgrass thanks, it has been 3 years and still learning with KBG in TX. My soil is 80% clay 20% sand, with a splash of dirt 

Mine is super thick and not easily pulled out. This year I have been using DOC's spray Super Juice every 4 weeks (post is in this group also).

Pic I shared with someone else who asked this week also, super thick grass.


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## klsmith259

@jeffcatton or anyone else. Have you had to dethatch your KBG?

Mine is a year old now and I was planning on dethatching it. Not having a lot of experience with thatch buildup I don't think it's bad based on pictures of what I see online. I also don't think it will hurt. I thought about buying an electric dethatcher but I only have 4k in the backyard and I may just rake it to bring up some of the thatch this year.


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## jeffcatton

klsmith259 said:


> @jeffcatton or anyone else. Have you had to dethatch your KBG?
> 
> Mine is a year old now and I was planning on dethatching it. Not having a lot of experience with thatch buildup I don't think it's bad based on pictures of what I see online. I also don't think it will hurt. I thought about buying an electric dethatcher but I only have 4k in the backyard and I may just rake it to bring up some of the thatch this year.


@klsmith259 I have never dethatched or aerated my yards in my lifetime, this may be just me and I may have better grass if I did ... not sure.


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## klsmith259

2 inch cut with the reel mower today. When it starts to cool off in September I would like to take it down further and maintain at 1.5 inches or so. I haven't fertilized in 6 months and it will still grow almost an inch in 2 days time.

I need to work on my striping


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## jeffcatton

klsmith259 said:


> 2 inch cut with the reel mower today. When it starts to cool off in September I would like to take it down further and maintain at 1.5 inches or so. I haven't fertilized in 6 months and it will still grow almost an inch in 2 days time.
> 
> I need to work on my striping


@klsmith259 very nice, the striping looks good to me, how is the bending at 2"? Do you iron at all? I am curious to see how 2" in the summer will be with high heat. Keep up the great work, truly satisfying when it works out they way you want it.


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## klsmith259

I would say that the grass still easily bends and with more conditioning it will get a bit more rigid. I applied iron once many months ago. I haven't fertilized since the winter/early spring. I was hesitant to push any growth during the summer heat.

My next steps are to get a soil test, PGR, Iron, and N. It's still in the high 80's/low 90's here but it's starting to cool down.


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## klsmith259

I raked and removed dead grass and any thatch manually on September 1st (I don't recommend anyone doing that). Later that day I applied PGR, Iron, and Urea. So far it's been cut down to 1.5 inches and I'm awaiting to see how the grass responds.

I've also collected soil samples and now I need to send them off for testing.


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## spartanlawn

Let's Go! I am working with about 15k sq ft. 9 of it is a complete redo. I treated all with tenacity yesterday. Today I dropped seed and starter fertilizer. I seeded 25 lbs in the 9k redo and 10 in the 6k. Fertilizer was about 15 lbs of 18-24-12. I'm watering 7am to 9pm for ten minutes on the hour.


----------



## jeffcatton

spartanlawn said:


> Let's Go! I am working with about 15k sq ft. 9 of it is a complete redo. I treated all with tenacity yesterday. Today I dropped seed and starter fertilizer. I seeded 25 lbs in the 9k redo and 10 in the 6k. Fertilizer was about 15 lbs of 18-24-12. I'm watering 7am to 9pm for ten minutes on the hour.


All the best to good speedy, strong sprouts !


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## spartanlawn

@jeffcatton , well wishes always appreciated.

Here are some pictures. First pic is Friday a week ago when the seeds were dropped. Nearly all of the green is either weeds (all had tenacity treatment, this has probably doubled now that more has germinated that was not stopped by the tenacity barrier) or some moss. Last picture is what the genuine germinated grass seed look like (1/2 day short of a week). I think if you see anything coming out of the ground with more than one leaf, it's probably not it. The tallest blades are mostly 1/4 to 1/3 of an inch tall maybe some are a half.


----------



## jeffcatton

spartanlawn said:


> @jeffcatton , well wishes always appreciated.
> 
> Here are some pictures. First pic is Friday a week ago when the seeds were dropped. Nearly all of the green is either weeds (all had tenacity treatment, this has probably doubled now that more has germinated that was not stopped by the tenacity barrier) or some moss. Last picture is what the genuine germinated grass seed look like (1/2 day short of a week). I think if you see anything coming out of the ground with more than one leaf, it's probably not it. The tallest blades are mostly 1/4 to 1/3 of an inch tall maybe some are a half.


@spartanlawn that's great, you must be so excited and impatient right now! Your sprouts are up in a week which is normal for this KBG, mine is also coming up now 8 days (spot seeded around a fixed sprinkler head). The weeds you can catch up later with directed weed control. Your grass will grow quickly (in a couple weeks) with this awesome weather, water and starter fertilizer. Keep us updated on the sweet progress.


----------



## spartanlawn

@jeffcatton

Thank you! I redid my backyard last year and probably didn't do the best with documenting for myself or the other folks in this forum. Thought I would try to do better this time around. My thoughts and expectations exactly on the weeds, as long as it isn't poa t (shivers).

You really have to squat down to see the sprouts this early in the germ process. If anyone seeding isn't seeing anything by a week, it's possible the watering needs to be more frequent at shorter durations. I plan to keep up my hourly schedule for at least another week then reevaluate.

Otherwise my experience has been it just takes longer to get going but eventually gets there. I'm not sure if there is an actual advantage to germing as quickly as possible other than it'll be sooner I can knock some expected weed infestation back.

Picture from this morning. Again all green is a weed or moss, seedlings are too small to see at all.


----------



## cokenner

Seeded this past Monday evening. Already some germination this morning! Granted they're in the more shaded areas and closer to the sprinkler heads. I'm super excited! I know I'll get some sprout and pout, but I can't wait to mow my front yard again!


----------



## Lem855

Man, I am itching to get the seed down. I finally finished fixing my drainage problem by installing French drains in the back yard. I've watered since my glyphosate treatments and nothing is growing just dead common bermuda, no weeds. TTL, Now I'm ready to level and regrade it with 2 yards of mix soil blend (topsoil, sand, compost). I'm planning to pre germinate the seed for 3-4 days and mix with milo to spread it out. So in preparation I tried to call around to rental location for a peatmoss spreader, can't find one in DFW. I'm may resort to using my leaf blower to suck out the peat out of the bag and spread it out, any thoughts? Or don't use peatmoss at all and use a straw germination blanket that has sterilized straw inside that's my other plan? I used peatmoss last time and had alot of washout problems. 
Also should I roll the seed in or just spread and water it in? Still haven't figured this all out yet? D day is this coming weekend, got to get this done!


----------



## jeffcatton

Lem855 said:


> Man, I am itching to get the seed down. I finally finished fixing my drainage problem by installing French drains in the back yard. I've watered since my glyphosate treatments and nothing is growing just dead common bermuda, no weeds. TTL, Now I'm ready to level and regrade it with 2 yards of mix soil blend (topsoil, sand, compost). I'm planning to pre germinate the seed for 3-4 days and mix with milo to spread it out. So in preparation I tried to call around to rental location for a peatmoss spreader, can't find one in DFW. I'm may resort to using my leaf blower to suck out the peat out of the bag and spread it out, any thoughts? Or don't use peatmoss at all and use a straw germination blanket that has sterilized straw inside that's my other plan? I used peatmoss last time and had alot of washout problems.
> Also should I roll the seed in or just spread and water it in? Still haven't figured this all out yet? D day is this coming weekend, got to get this done!


@Lem855 have you tried MULCH LOCK ? It does not stop the seeds from growing, but keeps the seeds in place.

Also, after you seed you should lightly rake (use leaf rake) and just pass over the seeds with the rake backwards(upside down). Helps to get dirt on top of the seeds / seed under a light dirt (I do this)


----------



## Lem855

jeffcatton said:


> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man, I am itching to get the seed down. I finally finished fixing my drainage problem by installing French drains in the back yard. I've watered since my glyphosate treatments and nothing is growing just dead common bermuda, no weeds. TTL, Now I'm ready to level and regrade it with 2 yards of mix soil blend (topsoil, sand, compost). I'm planning to pre germinate the seed for 3-4 days and mix with milo to spread it out. So in preparation I tried to call around to rental location for a peatmoss spreader, can't find one in DFW. I'm may resort to using my leaf blower to suck out the peat out of the bag and spread it out, any thoughts? Or don't use peatmoss at all and use a straw germination blanket that has sterilized straw inside that's my other plan? I used peatmoss last time and had alot of washout problems.
> Also should I roll the seed in or just spread and water it in? Still haven't figured this all out yet? D day is this coming weekend, got to get this done!
> 
> 
> 
> @Lem855 have you tried MULCH LOCK ? It does not stop the seeds from growing, but keeps the seeds in place.
> 
> Also, after you seed you should lightly rake (use leaf rake) and just pass over the seeds with the rake backwards(upside down). Helps to get dirt on top of the seeds / seed under a light dirt (I do this)
Click to expand...

I generally rake it in lightly after seed spreading, but isn't the peat moss the same thing, kind off? Seed on top of soil raked in then peat on top of seed for moisture retention?


----------



## jeffcatton

Lem855 said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man, I am itching to get the seed down. I finally finished fixing my drainage problem by installing French drains in the back yard. I've watered since my glyphosate treatments and nothing is growing just dead common bermuda, no weeds. TTL, Now I'm ready to level and regrade it with 2 yards of mix soil blend (topsoil, sand, compost). I'm planning to pre germinate the seed for 3-4 days and mix with milo to spread it out. So in preparation I tried to call around to rental location for a peatmoss spreader, can't find one in DFW. I'm may resort to using my leaf blower to suck out the peat out of the bag and spread it out, any thoughts? Or don't use peatmoss at all and use a straw germination blanket that has sterilized straw inside that's my other plan? I used peatmoss last time and had alot of washout problems.
> Also should I roll the seed in or just spread and water it in? Still haven't figured this all out yet? D day is this coming weekend, got to get this done!
> 
> 
> 
> @Lem855 have you tried MULCH LOCK ? It does not stop the seeds from growing, but keeps the seeds in place.
> 
> Also, after you seed you should lightly rake (use leaf rake) and just pass over the seeds with the rake backwards(upside down). Helps to get dirt on top of the seeds / seed under a light dirt (I do this)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I generally rake it in lightly after seed spreading, but isn't the peat moss the same thing, kind off? Seed on top of soil raked in then peat on top of seed for moisture retention?
Click to expand...

Oh it does, but you were concerned about washout also, does the peat moss hold it? I have always had great results with holding the seed using a rake over. Maybe the mulch lock will help the peat moss hold the seed, worth a shot. I used straw once and it just blew away with the seed in a strong wind


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## spartanlawn

Two weeks since seeding. Most of the green now IS grass. I will cut today at 3"-- more to mulch some of the leaves and sticks starting to come down but I did leave a strip of uncontaminated grass that needs trimming. I will put down extra seed and a bale of straw to cover some of the remaining bare areas. I will put down fertilizer again tomorrow too--same amount as two weeks ago.


----------



## Lem855

Lem855 said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man, I am itching to get the seed down. I finally finished fixing my drainage problem by installing French drains in the back yard. I've watered since my glyphosate treatments and nothing is growing just dead common bermuda, no weeds. TTL, Now I'm ready to level and regrade it with 2 yards of mix soil blend (topsoil, sand, compost). I'm planning to pre germinate the seed for 3-4 days and mix with milo to spread it out. So in preparation I tried to call around to rental location for a peatmoss spreader, can't find one in DFW. I'm may resort to using my leaf blower to suck out the peat out of the bag and spread it out, any thoughts? Or don't use peatmoss at all and use a straw germination blanket that has sterilized straw inside that's my other plan? I used peatmoss last time and had alot of washout problems.
> Also should I roll the seed in or just spread and water it in? Still haven't figured this all out yet? D day is this coming weekend, got to get this done!
> 
> 
> 
> @Lem855 have you tried MULCH LOCK ? It does not stop the seeds from growing, but keeps the seeds in place.
> 
> Also, after you seed you should lightly rake (use leaf rake) and just pass over the seeds with the rake backwards(upside down). Helps to get dirt on top of the seeds / seed under a light dirt (I do this)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I generally rake it in lightly after seed spreading, but isn't the peat moss the same thing, kind off? Seed on top of soil raked in then peat on top of seed for moisture retention?
Click to expand...

Gonna try the Mulch Lock for sure just to be safe!
:nod:


----------



## Turf Jitsu

I think I'll be using SPF30 next fall when I overseed my TTTF/*** lawn. Im in central NC and it gets hotter than Hades over here with humidity levels similar to a sauna. Soil suck too as it is sand.


----------



## jeffcatton

spartanlawn said:


> Two weeks since seeding. Most of the green now IS grass. I will cut today at 3"-- more to mulch some of the leaves and sticks starting to come down but I did leave a strip of uncontaminated grass that needs trimming. I will put down extra seed and a bale of straw to cover some of the remaining bare areas. I will put down fertilizer again tomorrow too--same amount as two weeks ago.


Wow nice, from September 10th to 17th your grass spouted nicely!


----------



## jeffcatton

Turf Jitsu said:


> I think I'll be using SPF30 next fall when I overseed my TTTF/KBG lawn. Im in central NC and it gets hotter than Hades over here with humidity levels similar to a sauna. Soil suck too as it is sand.


All the best on having awesome grass! Great time of year to get it done!


----------



## Lem855

Finaly ready for seeding the back yard. Not sure about the 101 temp but I'm ready. Aerated the yard with some human core aeration :nod: Put down some humichar then watered in the bio stem pack from green county fert, Air8, Humic 12, Micro Green, and Rgs yesterday. Today 4 yards of mixed soil for wizQstone and leveled and graded the yard towards the drains we put in last week. I can sure only pray for now that the temps drop some and allow me to pre germinate the seed for application next week. 🙏


----------



## Almost Awesome

Hey guys long time reader first time poster. I am ready to order the seed for my reno in my heavily shaded back yard. I would like to do all spf but I am a bit worried it will struggle in so much shade. I am also thinking about outside pride's extreme souther zone mix of spf and TTTF.

Curious to hear yall's thoughts/ experience on spf vs a mix of spf and TTTF for a heavily shaded yard. Lawn is irrigated.


----------



## spartanlawn

Lem855 said:


> Finaly ready for seeding the back yard. Not sure about the 101 temp but I'm ready. Aerated the yard with some human core aeration :nod: Put down some humichar then watered in the bio stem pack from green county fert, Air8, Humic 12, Micro Green, and Rgs yesterday. Today 4 yards of mixed soil for wizQstone and leveled and graded the yard towards the drains we put in last week. I can sure only pray for now that the temps drop some and allow me to pre germinate the seed for application next week. 🙏


@Lem855 wow! Lots and lots of prep! Probably going to lead to an awesome lawn


----------



## spartanlawn

Almost Awesome said:


> Hey guys long time reader first time poster. I am ready to order the seed for my reno in my heavily shaded back yard. I would like to do all spf but I am a bit worried it will struggle in so much shade. I am also thinking about outside pride's extreme souther zone mix of spf and TTTF.
> 
> Curious to hear yall's thoughts/ experience on spf vs a mix of spf and TTTF for a heavily shaded yard. Lawn is irrigated.


@Almost Awesome I would say it's pretty ok in the shade. My backyard looks somewhat similar as far as shade content. I may have said 'pretty good' in June but the heat and humidity really thinned it. I have overseeded and started fertilizing I'm unsure as to how it'll bounce back.

@jeffcatton replied to a similar question I had about shade expectations in this forum/thread. He has a super stand of this so I might think his post is about the best that can be expected. I'm not sure what page it is on.
While shade is important, from my experience I've found various thickness of the grass may also vary on differences in top soil composition/depth, water retention and runoff, sprinkling and fertilizer uniformity, type of tree overhead, height of cut, etc. In other words my mostly shaded backyard seems to have a lot of variation in thickness and these are some more obvious reasons I could come up with.


----------



## Lem855

spartanlawn said:


> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Finaly ready for seeding the back yard. Not sure about the 101 temp but I'm ready. Aerated the yard with some human core aeration :nod: Put down some humichar then watered in the bio stem pack from green county fert, Air8, Humic 12, Micro Green, and Rgs yesterday. Today 4 yards of mixed soil for wizQstone and leveled and graded the yard towards the drains we put in last week. I can sure only pray for now that the temps drop some and allow me to pre germinate the seed for application next week. 🙏
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Lem855 wow! Lots and lots of prep! Probably going to lead to an awesome lawn
Click to expand...

I'm ready to be done if you get what I mean, but surely would love to just have a nicer back yard this fall and spring. The wife deserves it for putting up with this lol.


----------



## jeffcatton

Lem855 said:


> Finaly ready for seeding the back yard. Not sure about the 101 temp but I'm ready. Aerated the yard with some human core aeration :nod: Put down some humichar then watered in the bio stem pack from green county fert, Air8, Humic 12, Micro Green, and Rgs yesterday. Today 4 yards of mixed soil for wizQstone and leveled and graded the yard towards the drains we put in last week. I can sure only pray for now that the temps drop some and allow me to pre germinate the seed for application next week. 🙏


@Lem855 That is 10 times the preparation I did - wow, your yard will look amazing in a few months! All the best to a beautiful yard - nice job!


----------



## jeffcatton

spartanlawn said:


> Almost Awesome said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys long time reader first time poster. I am ready to order the seed for my reno in my heavily shaded back yard. I would like to do all spf but I am a bit worried it will struggle in so much shade. I am also thinking about outside pride's extreme souther zone mix of spf and TTTF.
> 
> Curious to hear yall's thoughts/ experience on spf vs a mix of spf and TTTF for a heavily shaded yard. Lawn is irrigated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Almost Awesome I would say it's pretty ok in the shade. My backyard looks somewhat similar as far as shade content. I may have said 'pretty good' in June but the heat and humidity really thinned it. I have overseeded and started fertilizing I'm unsure as to how it'll bounce back.
> 
> @jeffcatton replied to a similar question I had about shade expectations in this forum/thread. He has a super stand of this so I might think his post is about the best that can be expected. I'm not sure what page it is on.
> While shade is important, from my experience I've found various thickness of the grass may also vary on differences in top soil composition/depth, water retention and runoff, sprinkling and fertilizer uniformity, type of tree overhead, height of cut, etc. In other words my mostly shaded backyard seems to have a lot of variation in thickness and these are some more obvious reasons I could come up with.
Click to expand...

@Almost Awesome check out this on page 24 -> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=405129#p405129 from @grassgrassgrass post.

He used TTTF and SPF-30 mixed ... he explains it really well.

I only use SPF-30 and it grows well in shaded area with very little sun (under trees/between houses) or no direct sun (behind house).


----------



## Lem855

After doing some research for starter fert I decided on scotts starter fert with mesotrione then finally seeded and fert and raked in like @jeffcaton mentioned. Hosed in some gcf GreenStart and Rgs, then decided to go with Pennington straw with tack. I couldn't find mulch lock localy so I decided to go with this option. Water schedule for 10 min on 7am-11-3-7pm till we see green. I was planning on pre-germinating the seed but with the weather dropping to between 60-mid 80's there's no better time than now! And didn't want to lose this window. Lets hope and 🙏 she will come in nicely. 
Nothing more happier than watching your babies take a nappy nappy until they wakey wakey!
Thanks to all you SPF30 guys for helping me along the way! 
I'm tired 😫


----------



## bill101

Lem855 said:


> Finaly ready for seeding the back yard. Not sure about the 101 temp but I'm ready. Aerated the yard with some human core aeration :nod: Put down some humichar then watered in the bio stem pack from green county fert, Air8, Humic 12, Micro Green, and Rgs yesterday. Today 4 yards of mixed soil for wizQstone and leveled and graded the yard towards the drains we put in last week. I can sure only pray for now that the temps drop some and allow me to pre germinate the seed for application next week. 🙏


 Go ahead and plant the seed. It's not important what the temperature is when you plant, as long as it drops to good fall temperatures within a few days afterwards. - Fall is finally here in Madison, MS and my seed planted last week is just starting to sprout. Looks like you have done a lot of work, and will have a great lawn.


----------



## CorpRaider

Got some SPF 30 sprouts about a week after seed down with only moderately diligent watering (and some rain).


----------



## cokenner

Seeded on Labor Day.

9/14

9/23 


Will be doing my next round of tenacity soon. Still contemplating when to put down fert. Either very soon, or the 30 day mark from germination. Need to reseed some bare spots too.


----------



## jeffcatton

cokenner said:


> Seeded on Labor Day.
> 
> 9/14
> 
> 9/23
> 
> 
> Will be doing my next round of tenacity soon. Still contemplating when to put down fert. Either very soon, or the 30 day mark from germination. Need to reseed some bare spots too.


@cokenner Very Nice! Coming along at the perfect time.


----------



## klsmith259

Cut at 1 inch. This is nearing the end of the second application of PGR. I think I hit it a little too hard on the second application either with PGR or Nitrogen. As you can see the less mature, thinner blades of grass died off or were stressed/burnt. What's left is the thicker blades of grass. The color and texture looks better. Of course I can't get around the dog urine spots. I water them in, the wife doesn't always, sometimes the dog only goes in the mulch. Just part of the battle.

I'm going to continue to apply PGR and Nitro and see how it fills in over the fall/winter. Definitely have some leveling to do.


----------



## cokenner

klsmith259 said:


> Cut at 1 inch. This is nearing the end of the second application of PGR. I think I hit it a little too hard on the second application either with PGR or Nitrogen. As you can see the less mature, thinner blades of grass died off or were stressed/burnt. What's left is the thicker blades of grass. The color and texture looks better. Of course I can't get around the dog urine spots. I water them in, the wife doesn't always, sometimes the dog only goes in the mulch. Just part of the battle.
> 
> I'm going to continue to apply PGR and Nitro and see how it fills in over the fall/winter. Definitely have some leveling to do.


I'm hoping I can keep it @ 1"-1.5". Might have to invest in some PGR soon.


----------



## klsmith259

Without PGR you would need to cut everyday at least based on my experience at 1 inch. 1.5 maybe every other day depending on water and fertilizer.


----------



## The_Dave

The Bluemuda Experiment is underway…

This section of my yard gets relatively little sunlight with the house and the fence right there, and probably a lot less now that the neighboring house is going up.

I'm so sick of looking at brown grass for five months out of the year, but I don't want to go through the hassle of a ryegrass oversees every year, so here we are.

PGR on the Bermuda, then scalped the next day. Seed down, peat moss on top, watered. These shots are from just after finishing up yesterday.





I don't think I'll be putting fert down for a while, I don't want to stimulate the Bermuda at this point. We've got pretty mild weather here for the next few days, then back up into the mid-80s for a while. If things go well, I'll do the rest of the yard this way as well.


----------



## CenlaLowell

I'll figure in a few seasons I'll have to do this because of shade from crepe myrtles. How long are y'all going without pre emergent before putting seeds down?


----------



## klsmith259

@The_Dave I'm debating going the bluemuda route this coming spring/summer except I already have kbg in the backyard. (Bermuda seed on existing kbg). I think yours will do fine and you will like it much better. I have a similar situation with houses on both sides in my front/side and my Bermuda struggles heavily. It's a lot of work to seed, topdress etc.


----------



## The_Dave

klsmith259 said:


> @The_Dave I'm debating going the bluemuda route this coming spring/summer except I already have kbg in the backyard. (Bermuda seed on existing kbg). I think yours will do fine and you will like it much better. I have a similar situation with houses on both sides in my front/side and my Bermuda struggles heavily. It's a lot of work to seed, topdress etc.


I hope that works well for you, I've heard it can be more difficult to add the Bermuda on top of KBG than the other way around!


----------



## cokenner

klsmith259 said:


> Without PGR you would need to cut everyday at least based on my experience at 1 inch. 1.5 maybe every other day depending on water and fertilizer.


Well, one of my favorite parts of lawn are is mowing! And I only have about 1200 sqft of KBG atm. But I know PGR also promotes more lateral growth. That was my main reason for wanting to implement. Also, I may eventually overseed my Bermuda backyard with SPF30.


----------



## grassgrassgrass

Here's my DFW update! Seeded September 19, second pic is exactly 7 days later. I went half SPF-30 and half Barenberg RTF. I pregerminated the KBG for 5 full days before seeding. You can see my sprinkler coverage isn't great, and the shaded areas CLEARLY outperformed the sunny areas as far as germination! Those sunny spots get dry during the day, so I need to fight to keep it watered. I really should change out my sprinkler heads or adjust them or something...anyway, it's been a tough few days waiting to see some life - I fully thought I messed it up! Amazing how our minds can do that, even when I did a test strip a couple weeks ago and it all worked great! Thanks everyone for the advice on this thread, it's been really helpful!

For those with St Augustine lawns...I literally took a weed eater to this ENTIRE backyard. It was a miserable process I'll never do again. And I'm sure some of it will come back anyway, but it's so nice to have a fresh slate to work with. It took me probably three afternoons to weed eat my lawn to the bare soil haha. I wore a full face respirator to avoid dust and it was so hot and terrible. On my front lawn I just scalped it a few days in a row trying to kill it back, and then levelled a small amount or sand and topsoil and overseeded that. Fingers crossed some of it will take, but I know St Aug is very dominant.

Also, with the whole Mulch Lock thing that I introduced via some guy's youtube channel earlier in this thread...I'm not convinced that stuff will do much at all. It's literally just Elmer's Glue, and to my touch the soil didn't really seem any more tacky after application. Maybe it works...maybe not. I think the key for me in my washout areas was using a roller. We'll see how this week's rainstorms impact everything.


----------



## CenlaLowell

grassgrassgrass said:


> Here's my DFW update! Seeded September 19, second pic is exactly 7 days later. I went half SPF-30 and half Barenberg RTF. I pregerminated the KBG for 5 full days before seeding. You can see my sprinkler coverage isn't great, and the shaded areas CLEARLY outperformed the sunny areas as far as germination! Those sunny spots get dry during the day, so I need to fight to keep it watered. I really should change out my sprinkler heads or adjust them or something...anyway, it's been a tough few days waiting to see some life - I fully thought I messed it up! Amazing how our minds can do that, even when I did a test strip a couple weeks ago and it all worked great! Thanks everyone for the advice on this thread, it's been really helpful!
> 
> For those with St Augustine lawns...I literally took a weed eater to this ENTIRE backyard. It was a miserable process I'll never do again. And I'm sure some of it will come back anyway, but it's so nice to have a fresh slate to work with. It took me probably three afternoons to weed eat my lawn to the bare soil haha. I wore a full face respirator to avoid dust and it was so hot and terrible. On my front lawn I just scalped it a few days in a row trying to kill it back, and then levelled a small amount or sand and topsoil and overseeded that. Fingers crossed some of it will take, but I know St Aug is very dominant.
> 
> Also, with the whole Mulch Lock thing that I introduced via some guy's youtube channel earlier in this thread...I'm not convinced that stuff will do much at all. It's literally just Elmer's Glue, and to my touch the soil didn't really seem any more tacky after application. Maybe it works...maybe not. I think the key for me in my washout areas was using a roller. We'll see how this week's rainstorms impact everything.


You probably should have killed the st Augustine with chemicals because it's more than likely coming back


----------



## grassgrassgrass

well I went all the way down to bare earth with the weed eater, and pulled up all the stolons. I don't see how it could come back from that. it's not rhizhomous (definitely not how you spell that)


----------



## cokenner

grassgrassgrass said:


> well I went all the way down to bare earth with the weed eater, and pulled up all the stolons. I don't see how it could come back from that. it's not rhizhomous (definitely not how you spell that)


I would say you missed some. But I wouldn't fret, it's not Bermuda! I did three rounds for glyphosate and still have hints of Bermuda through the lawn. So I'll be mixing tryclopyr ester with most of my fert applications to keep it knocked back.


----------



## BigBearEatU

Good morning guys,

Would this SPF-30 blend in with Zoysia? I have zoysia (10k) around the house and the outer perimeter is a little bit of Fescue. I do have irrigation on all of the two acres.


----------



## Lem855

We have lift off! After 7 days around the sun we finally have green little babies 👶!


----------



## cokenner

BigBearEatU said:


> Good morning guys,
> 
> Would this SPF-30 blend in with Zoysia? I have zoysia (10k) around the house and the outer perimeter is a little bit of Fescue. I do have irrigation on all of the two acres.


Just some quick research, it says zoysia may choke it out unlike bermuda. It's always worth a try and go the route that most bluemuda lawns take. Don't expect great results, though.


----------



## BigBearEatU

I understand the zoysia will eventually choke it out, but it will take quite a few years though, which is why I want something to make it look half way decent.


----------



## grassgrassgrass

A lot has grown in since my last post three days ago. It's looking thin (I blame the slightly wet seed not spreading in the broadcast spreader from pre-germination), so after all this rain this week I'll probably throw more seed at it. I should probably be patient though...I know the bluegrass takes a long time to come up...this is probably the TTTF coming up first before the KBG


----------



## The_Dave

Ohhhhhh man here we go…

Right at one week later and I'm seeing these little guys all over. We just got back from a weekend trip out of town and I wasn't able to water it. Worried that would mess it up, but I think I've gotten away with it.

Speaking of water, does anybody have a recommendation for fungicide that's good for Bermuda and KBG?


----------



## Lem855

Looking for advice on when to cut back on the watering frequently to watering deeply in the stages of germination. My grass is at an average hight of between 3/8"-1" and only 13 days since seeding. I read so many different ways on how to get the roots deeper I'm confused now. Could use some good advice from our showcase lawn peeps. Was using 4 × per day @ 7-8 min. Now thinking 2x per day at 20 min. Thanks in advance.


----------



## cokenner

Lem855 said:


> Looking for advice on when to cut back on the watering frequently to watering deeply in the stages of germination. My grass is at an average hight of between 3/8"-1" and only 13 days since seeding. I read so many different ways on how to get the roots deeper I'm confused now. Could use some good advice from our showcase lawn peeps. Was using 4 × per day @ 7-8 min. Now thinking 2x per day at 20 min. Thanks in advance.


There's a million ways to do it. I seeded on September 5th and watered 4x per day @ 12 min every 6 hours starting at midnight (mp rotators) and didn't adjust watering to, 2x per day for 20min, 7am and 2pm, until I felt there was more widespread germination on the 29th. I've been using this guide loosely https://bit.ly/3DfTuMM and it's worked out great so far.


----------



## The_Dave

11 days in and there's definite growth going on, although it's extremely patchy. I'll have to go back and hand seed most of it. I might take a rake to the sparse parts. I can imagine most of the seed didn't have adequate soil contact. Or should I spread more peat moss? I have to admit that I didn't get nearly enough last time. I hope this works out, I sure do like the way it looks in these small areas.


----------



## Lem855

So after reading the guide by G-man it recommends that .2 lbs. of Nitrogen be put down. I currently have granular Urea at 33-0-0 and want to liquify it for spraying. so if my math serves me right the formula would be to achieve this would be as follows. .33% x(.625 Lbs. or 10oz.) = .206lbs of N mixed with 1 gal of water for spraying. Am I missing something or is my math all combobulated :? I'm spraying 1080 sqft.


----------



## cokenner

Not sure on Granular to liquid conversion. I just use 18-3-6 liquid fert found on Amazon (Pendleton). I think it's like 10oz or so for .2 lbs N.


----------



## cokenner

cokenner said:


> Not sure on Granular to liquid conversion. I just use 18-3-6 liquid fert found on Amazon (Pendleton). I think it's like 10oz or so for .2 lbs N.


Nvm, it's .15 lbs on N with at a 10oz rate.


----------



## TylUmp

Seeded last week and have nutsedge popping up. Sedgehammer or wait until seed establishes?


----------



## spartanlawn

Fertilized last weekend then we had a solid week of rain. Mowed for the third time. More to stay up with mulching leaves starting to come down. Cutting at 3". Because it's a 42" belly mower it's pretty uneven. I dropped my first round of tenacity after mowing since treating with the seeding. I might cut way back on watering. I had cut it in half before this past weeks monsoon. I had been watering three times a day for 10 min each. I feel the frequent watering done early on severely thinned my existing stand of spf in the backyard where I overseeded. It's possible this grass doesn't like frequent watering and damp conditions.


----------



## lanc0227

Nm


----------



## Lem855

spartanlawn said:


> Fertilized last weekend then we had a solid week of rain. Mowed for the third time. More to stay up with mulching leaves starting to come down. Cutting at 3". Because it's a 42" belly mower it's pretty uneven. I dropped my first round of tenacity after mowing since treating with the seeding. I might cut way back on watering. I had cut it in half before this past weeks monsoon. I had been watering three times a day for 10 min each. I feel the frequent watering done early on severely thinned my existing stand of spf in the backyard where I overseeded. It's possible this grass doesn't like frequent watering and damp conditions.


I totally understand the feeling of wanting to cut back on the watering. This past spring we had alot of rain which just couldn't drain and the grass had many days flooded out. It surely did a number on it. I started all over again. This week I'm starting the process of cutting back on the frequent watering schedule and now trying to change to watering deeper and less often to promote deeper roots. 
Good luck@spartanlawn


----------



## spartanlawn

@Lem855 
I really would like to be amazed by the underground rhizomes doing their thing and repairing. That was the primary selling point for me over fescue. I'm very impatient. I'll fertilize this weekend and thru the remaining fall and winter. I think the chances of a freeze are closing out the usefulness of seeding now.


----------



## Lem855

spartanlawn said:


> @Lem855
> I really would like to be amazed by the underground rhizomes doing their thing and repairing. That was the primary selling point for me over fescue. I'm very impatient. I'll fertilize this weekend and thru the remaining fall and winter. I think the chances of a freeze are closing out the usefulness of seeding now.


I totally understand, temps show night time temps in the mid 50's for next week and I just finished trying to repair some bare spots the dogs and squirrels tore up. I'm hoping that we get a later winter dip closer to Dec than Nov in DFW Texas. What about forcing the growth with weekly .2lbs per k of urea sprayed? I'm really interested in this treatment.


----------



## spartanlawn

TylUmp said:


> Seeded last week and have nutsedge popping up. Sedgehammer or wait until seed establishes?


I would check the label on your herbicide. I think tenacity recommended after second mowing.


----------



## spartanlawn

Lem855 said:


> spartanlawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Lem855
> I really would like to be amazed by the underground rhizomes doing their thing and repairing. That was the primary selling point for me over fescue. I'm very impatient. I'll fertilize this weekend and thru the remaining fall and winter. I think the chances of a freeze are closing out the usefulness of seeding now.
> 
> 
> 
> I totally understand, temps show night time temps in the mid 50's for next week and I just finished trying to repair some bare spots the dogs and squirrels tore up. I'm hoping that we get a later winter dip closer to Dec than Nov in DFW Texas. What about forcing the growth with weekly .2lbs per k of urea sprayed? I'm really interested in this treatment.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure. I've stuck with the granular starter fertilizer. I think I read @jeffcatton might have switched or moving to a more liquid based diet. Definitely going to follow what you try.


----------



## Lem855

spartanlawn said:


> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spartanlawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Lem855
> I really would like to be amazed by the underground rhizomes doing their thing and repairing. That was the primary selling point for me over fescue. I'm very impatient. I'll fertilize this weekend and thru the remaining fall and winter. I think the chances of a freeze are closing out the usefulness of seeding now.
> 
> 
> 
> I totally understand, temps show night time temps in the mid 50's for next week and I just finished trying to repair some bare spots the dogs and squirrels tore up. I'm hoping that we get a later winter dip closer to Dec than Nov in DFW Texas. What about forcing the growth with weekly .2lbs per k of urea sprayed? I'm really interested in this treatment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not sure. I've stuck with the granular starter fertilizer. I think I read @jeffcatton might have switched or moving to a more liquid based diet. Definitely going to follow what you try.
Click to expand...

I have committed this year to doing a more liguid fertilizer regiment. Currently doing the green county bio stem and starter packages, but also did scotts starter fertilizer with mesotrione before seeding. I've also did a small applications of .1% urea (33-0-0) at 14 days from germination. I do see the benefits now 20 days in from seed down.


----------



## cokenner

I do a mixture of liquid/granular. Liquid spoon feeding during beginning growing seasons and granular during the off months with less growth. I'm putting down about 5lbs of N per year with my current schedule.


----------



## cokenner

First time laying down stripes since renovation! This stuff stripes soooo much better than TTTF.


----------



## jeffcatton

cokenner said:


> First time laying down stripes since renovation! This stuff stripes soooo much better than TTTF.


BEAUTIFUL ! Nice job @cokenner !
This will surely stand out all winter


----------



## tank3011570

I put down my seed a little bit over a week ago and started to see some baby green now. I saw a lot of good results from you guys. But I wonder how often do you need to overseed it to keep it looking good? Do I have to overseed every fall?


----------



## klsmith259

tank3011570 said:


> I put down my seed a little bit over a week ago and started to see some baby green now. I saw a lot of good results from you guys. But I wonder how often do you need to overseed it to keep it looking good? Do I have to overseed every fall?


No, you do not need to overseed. KBG will spread and fill in.


----------



## bill101

Not sure about Sedgehammer during seeding, but Tenacity will kill nutsedge and it's safe for use during seeding. Syngenta, the maker of Tenacity, says:

"Apply Tenacity at 5-8 fl. oz./acre prior to, during or after seeding. A good quality non-ionic surfactant is recommended if weeds are present at time of application.
Repeat application after second mowing, or 3 to 4 weeks after emergence.
Use the low rate (5 oz./acre) for existing stands containing greater than 50 percent ryegrass. Do not use on seed mixtures containing more than 20% fine fescue by weight."


----------



## Lem855

Finally getting some progress on the SPF30 KBG. 24 days after germination not bad, still have some more spots to take root but the avg height of grass is at just over
1-1/4". Gonna apply 1 more shot of liquid urea at just over .25% to get more root stimulation and hand water the bare spots that I've reseeded. Watering schedule is now at 30 min 2x per week for about 2-1/2" of water. Here are some pics of the grass and tiller shot. Still not big enough root growth per my liking but time will tell.


----------



## cokenner

Lem855 said:


> Finally getting some progress on the SPF30 KBG. 24 days after germination not bad, still have some more spots to take root but the avg height of grass is at just over
> 1-1/4". Gonna apply 1 more shot of liquid urea at just over .25% to get more root stimulation and hand water the bare spots that I've reseeded. Watering schedule is now at 30 min 2x per week for about 2-1/2" of water. Here are some pics of the grass and tiller shot. Still not big enough root growth per my liking but time will tell.


DO you think the yellowing may be fungus?


----------



## Lem855

cokenner said:


> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Finally getting some progress on the SPF30 KBG. 24 days after germination not bad, still have some more spots to take root but the avg height of grass is at just over
> 1-1/4". Gonna apply 1 more shot of liquid urea at just over .25% to get more root stimulation and hand water the bare spots that I've reseeded. Watering schedule is now at 30 min 2x per week for about 2-1/2" of water. Here are some pics of the grass and tiller shot. Still not big enough root growth per my liking but time will tell.
> 
> 
> 
> DO you think the yellowing may be fungus?
Click to expand...

I think this was just a rare instance, I checked other areas and don't see any similar symptoms. 
I do have dogs and trying to repair some spots as they do their business is a "task and a 1/2". Also watering areas to dilute the pee spots. 
I cut back the watering now to just 20 minutes watering every 3 days. 
I also pulled that blade out of an area that doesn't get much sunlight. This might have been a factor as well but not sure.

Can a fungal program be applied to baby grass? I haven't seen anyone with this issue or videos on this yet. 😕

Maybe someone else has experienced this before. 
This has got me thinking 🤔, my head hurts now....lol.


----------



## cokenner

Lem855 said:


> cokenner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Finally getting some progress on the SPF30 KBG. 24 days after germination not bad, still have some more spots to take root but the avg height of grass is at just over
> 1-1/4". Gonna apply 1 more shot of liquid urea at just over .25% to get more root stimulation and hand water the bare spots that I've reseeded. Watering schedule is now at 30 min 2x per week for about 2-1/2" of water. Here are some pics of the grass and tiller shot. Still not big enough root growth per my liking but time will tell.
> 
> 
> 
> DO you think the yellowing may be fungus?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think this was just a rare instance, I checked other areas and don't see any similar symptoms.
> I do have dogs and trying to repair some spots as they do their business is a "task and a 1/2". Also watering areas to dilute the pee spots.
> I cut back the watering now to just 20 minutes watering every 3 days.
> I also pulled that blade out of an area that doesn't get much sunlight. This might have been a factor as well but not sure.
> 
> Can a fungal program be applied to baby grass? I haven't seen anyone with this issue or videos on this yet. 😕
> 
> Maybe someone else has experienced this before.
> This has got me thinking 🤔, my head hurts now....lol.
Click to expand...

The reason I ask is because I had some problem areas that were a little patchy and yellow. Pulled some blades that looked like yours and it seemed to be fugus. Droped some DiseaseX at a curing rate all over the lawn and it is clearing up and filling in. I live in North-Central Tx and the weather was humid 80s-90s for a week or so. So I guess you can apply it to baby grass!


----------



## Turf Jitsu

How comparable is SPF30's color vs like Midnight KBG or GCI TTTF?


----------



## Lem855

@cokenner It's good to know that we can add some kind of fungus control to new seedlings with major damage. I do like the color of your grass and was wondering if you mixed your grass with a darker blend of kbg? Mine seems so light in color compared to most everyone else. Here is a Pic to show you what I mean. 

Gonna add my weekly urea dose and add some FEture iron to the mix to try and darken it up as well. Before the weather shuts us down in DFW.
Does anyone have insight into if SPF30 gets darker over time?

I'm also trying to get the squirrel damage under control with an ultrasonic sound and light repellent from Broox. Hopefully that may deter them from digging holes in my yard.


----------



## jeffcatton

Lem855 said:


> @cokenner It's good to know that we can add some kind of fungus control to new seedlings with major damage. I do like the color of your grass and was wondering if you mixed your grass with a darker blend of kbg? Mine seems so light in color compared to most everyone else. Here is a Pic to show you what I mean.
> 
> Gonna add my weekly urea dose and add some FEture iron to the mix to try and darken it up as well. Before the weather shuts us down in DFW.
> Does anyone have insight into if SPF30 gets darker over time?
> 
> I'm also trying to get the squirrel damage under control with an ultrasonic sound and light repellent from Broox. Hopefully that may deter them from digging holes in my yard.


@cokenner yes it gets much darker as the blades get stronger/larger. For hunter green coloring, it also is helped with Doc's Super Juice + liquid IRONITE. Hope that helps!

Mine is 3 years old now ...


----------



## Lem855

:


jeffcatton said:


> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @cokenner It's good to know that we can add some kind of fungus control to new seedlings with major damage. I do like the color of your grass and was wondering if you mixed your grass with a darker blend of kbg? Mine seems so light in color compared to most everyone else. Here is a Pic to show you what I mean.
> 
> Gonna add my weekly urea dose and add some FEture iron to the mix to try and darken it up as well. Before the weather shuts us down in DFW.
> Does anyone have insight into if SPF30 gets darker over time?
> 
> I'm also trying to get the squirrel damage under control with an ultrasonic sound and light repellent from Broox. Hopefully that may deter them from digging holes in my yard.
> 
> 
> 
> @cokenner yes it gets much darker as the blades get stronger/larger. For hunter green coloring, it also is helped with Doc's Super Juice + liquid IRONITE. Hope that helps!
> 
> Mine is 3 years old now ...
Click to expand...

Now @jeffcatton this was the reason I purchased SPF30, definitely LOM candidate :thumbup:


----------



## cokenner

Lem855 said:


> @cokenner It's good to know that we can add some kind of fungus control to new seedlings with major damage. I do like the color of your grass and was wondering if you mixed your grass with a darker blend of kbg? Mine seems so light in color compared to most everyone else. Here is a Pic to show you what I mean.
> 
> Gonna add my weekly urea dose and add some FEture iron to the mix to try and darken it up as well. Before the weather shuts us down in DFW.
> Does anyone have insight into if SPF30 gets darker over time?
> 
> I'm also trying to get the squirrel damage under control with an ultrasonic sound and light repellent from Broox. Hopefully that may deter them from digging holes in my yard.


I've been spoon-feeding it an 18-3-6 liquid fert weekly once I had decent germination. Also hit it with some liquid iron, but that was a week or so after these pics. Also, it's a little more mature than yours. Seeded Sept 5th.


----------



## cokenner

cokenner said:


> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @cokenner It's good to know that we can add some kind of fungus control to new seedlings with major damage. I do like the color of your grass and was wondering if you mixed your grass with a darker blend of kbg? Mine seems so light in color compared to most everyone else. Here is a Pic to show you what I mean.
> 
> Gonna add my weekly urea dose and add some FEture iron to the mix to try and darken it up as well. Before the weather shuts us down in DFW.
> Does anyone have insight into if SPF30 gets darker over time?
> 
> I'm also trying to get the squirrel damage under control with an ultrasonic sound and light repellent from Broox. Hopefully that may deter them from digging holes in my yard.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been spoon-feeding it an 18-3-6 liquid fert weekly once I had decent germination. Also hit it with some liquid iron, but that was a week or so after these pics. Also, it's a little more mature than yours. Seeded Sept 5th.
Click to expand...

Just some update pics of my progression . Loving how well this grass stripes, cutting at about 1 3/4". Want to get a reel mower once I do some sand leveling and then maintain at 1".


----------



## jeffcatton

cokenner said:


> cokenner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @cokenner It's good to know that we can add some kind of fungus control to new seedlings with major damage. I do like the color of your grass and was wondering if you mixed your grass with a darker blend of kbg? Mine seems so light in color compared to most everyone else. Here is a Pic to show you what I mean.
> 
> Gonna add my weekly urea dose and add some FEture iron to the mix to try and darken it up as well. Before the weather shuts us down in DFW.
> Does anyone have insight into if SPF30 gets darker over time?
> 
> I'm also trying to get the squirrel damage under control with an ultrasonic sound and light repellent from Broox. Hopefully that may deter them from digging holes in my yard.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been spoon-feeding it an 18-3-6 liquid fert weekly once I had decent germination. Also hit it with some liquid iron, but that was a week or so after these pics. Also, it's a little more mature than yours. Seeded Sept 5th.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just some update pics of my progression . Loving how well this grass stripes, cutting at about 1 3/4". Want to get a reel mower once I do some sand leveling and then maintain at 1".
Click to expand...

@cokenner Very Nice, you have done an awesome job on the yard ! Looking good in the neighborhood !


----------



## texas-ag-86

@jeffcatton - still a fan of the Super Juice then? 
I was reading through the Amazon reviews; it gets hammered badly. Yet the recovery after the Bayer incident would certainly contradict those negative reviews.


----------



## Lem855

Well it's finally coming in and looking better and healthier than before. Still have some damage from squirrels to contend with and the dogs taking ownership of some spots that I water after they do their business. All in all I'm happy with what's coming in. Hopefully the weather holds out for me to do a bit more seeing in the larger areas that are bare. Still feeding weekly and increasing my % of urea and green county fert products. Here are some pics of the progress. Even got baby stripes going on.


----------



## jeffcatton

texas-ag-86 said:


> @jeffcatton - still a fan of the Super Juice then?
> I was reading through the Amazon reviews; it gets hammered badly. Yet the recovery after the Bayer incident would certainly contradict those negative reviews.


@texas-ag-86 I am not using anything else other than the Super Juice and liquid IRONITE. From how my grass is right now ... yes it works for me and is cheaper overall (vs granular).


----------



## texas-ag-86

Thanks @jeffcatton.

@texas-ag-86 I am not using anything else other than the Super Juice and liquid IRONITE. From how my grass is right now ... yes it works for me and is cheaper overall (vs granular).
[/quote]



jeffcatton said:


> texas-ag-86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jeffcatton - still a fan of the Super Juice then?
> I was reading through the Amazon reviews; it gets hammered badly. Yet the recovery after the Bayer incident would certainly contradict those negative reviews.
Click to expand...


----------



## texas-ag-86

For those of you struggling to get rid of St Augustine, here's what has worked for me.

After several attempts clear out the St Augustine in our back yard, (dethatch/thin and three separate applications of broad leaf weed killer) the only truly successful eradication treatment was applying 10 pounds/1000 sqft of urea to the area. The results were quite stunning. By day 4, most of it was crispy brown. The pic shows sections that didn't get hit well enough with the drop spreader.

​
The downside is the soil requires time for the nitrogen to levels to dissipate before planting again, not to mention the eye sore of nothing but brown heaps of organic matter. In my case, it allowed for a very leisurely 4 months to scrape off the dead plant matter and move to the compost area. Here I just used a 2.5 pound grub hoe to do the work. The plus side, this past summer's watering bill was significantly lower than usual.

I waited for new growth to emerge, which occurred in October, before seeding. Any St Augustine stragglers were hit with RoundUp along with some common bermuda that began to grow. Directions indicated a 3 day waiting period prior to seeding.

Rather than go shy with Outside's recommended 3lbs/1K and wait for fill-in, I dropped 5.5lbs/1K. Seven days post seeding, we had a healthy day of rain with an unfortunate punctuation of heavy downpours. Surprisingly, only small sections of seed were 'relocated'. Germination was visible on day 12 and much to our surprise, relatively in tact.

Dropped another 5lbs on the 12th focusing on the bare sections (these areas are actually showing signs of germination as of today) with the notion those areas will catch up. The pic below was taken this morning. Doesn't look like much from up top, but after several months of brown, it looks like an Oasis to us.

​
We are in region 8b - Central Texas. Our Parks & Rec department typically scalps the soccer fields end of November and seeds a cool season mixture for winter/spring use. That said, I have seeded in September with good success. This time I'm counting on the cooler weather allowing the SPF-30 to get well established while the neighboring St Augustine is dormant. Hoping to keep the St A from encroaching in the spring.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Lem855

This is a question for our North Texas friends or people who know this regions weather pattern. With temps in the 60's this Thanksgiving week and several weeks to come is to late to seed again some bare spots that have yet to root or have been damaged? Will the seed even germinate fully if I pre germinate it before sowing it in? I'm wrestling with this idea and don't know if it's a waste of time at this moment.


----------



## texas-ag-86

@ABC123 posted this several threads back. It may help.



> It all depends on the temperature but id say mid march through mid novemeber. That could be 8 or 9 months depending on the forecast.
> 
> The soil temp can determine what will be happening to the plant. But with it being a GMO it might not react the same as these below.
> 
> 90F Shoot growth ceases.
> 77F Root growth ceases.
> 70F Maximum temperature for root growth of any consequence.
> 70F Time to plant grasses in late summer.
> 60-75F Optimum temperature for shoot growth.
> 50-65F Optimum temperature for root growth.
> 40F Shoot growth ceases.
> 33F Root growth ceases.


----------



## Lem855

texas-ag-86 said:


> @ABC123 posted this several threads back. It may help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It all depends on the temperature but id say mid march through mid novemeber. That could be 8 or 9 months depending on the forecast.
> 
> The soil temp can determine what will be happening to the plant. But with it being a GMO it might not react the same as these below.
> 
> 90F Shoot growth ceases.
> 77F Root growth ceases.
> 70F Maximum temperature for root growth of any consequence.
> 70F Time to plant grasses in late summer.
> 60-75F Optimum temperature for shoot growth.
> 50-65F Optimum temperature for root growth.
> 40F Shoot growth ceases.
> 33F Root growth ceases.
Click to expand...

Great thanks for the info, just what I needed to know. :thumbup:


----------



## klsmith259

Interesting new Sod. Very similar to SPF30. It is limited and seems like a trial.

https://ngturf.com/new-grass-variety-debuts-at-historic-home/



> Southern Blue is an innovative grass variety developed through a partnership between NG Turf and Texas A&M University, currently available in limited supply. The hybrid offers the benefits of cold hardiness and year round green of a cool season grass, while also providing superior drought and wear tolerance compared to other cool season grasses.
> 
> Whereas cool season grasses like tall fescue require reseeding to rebound after damage or drought, Southern Blue has rhizomes, which are lateral roots that can send up new shoots, allowing the grass to regenerate-no overseeding required.


----------



## cokenner

klsmith259 said:


> Interesting new Sod. Very similar to SPF30. It is limited and seems like a trial.
> 
> https://ngturf.com/new-grass-variety-debuts-at-historic-home/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Southern Blue is an innovative grass variety developed through a partnership between NG Turf and Texas A&M University, currently available in limited supply. The hybrid offers the benefits of cold hardiness and year round green of a cool season grass, while also providing superior drought and wear tolerance compared to other cool season grasses.
> 
> Whereas cool season grasses like tall fescue require reseeding to rebound after damage or drought, Southern Blue has rhizomes, which are lateral roots that can send up new shoots, allowing the grass to regenerate-no overseeding required.
Click to expand...

Very intriguing! We are ahead of the curve. If this becomes more readily available within the next few years, I may put it in my backyard. Hope it has great success!


----------



## klsmith259

Does anyone have or are able to find the DLI requirements of SPF30? I've searched but can't find anything definitive. I do have a light meter that measures DLI, but I'm curious what is ideal vs what it receives as well as the difference versus tiftuf bermuda. It works in my yard, but I'm debating moving to TifTuf bermuda after maintaining the front bermuda with a reel mower. The other is the faster recovery (dog urine) of bermuda vs KBG although my KBG is starting to mature and getting quicker especially after having a bit of a PGR, heat stress, and fungus issue with the SPF 30.

Regardless of switching in the early spring I will add level mix (66% sand, 33% topsoil).

I did find reference to KBG where it says 11 DLI at minimum. 
https://oaktrust.library.tamu.edu/bitstream/handle/1969.1/155246/MEEKS-DISSERTATION-2015.pdf;jsessionid=026A0E3AFA841367FC2E77BCBFDE83E1?sequence=1

https://landmarkseed.com/products/kentucky-bluegrass-seed

https://agrilifeextension.tamu.edu/library/landscaping/turfgrass-selection-for-texas/


----------



## texas-ag-86

@klsmith259

Curious about this too.

Not specific, but this might help get a general guide (they didn't mention specific varieties, but it's Florida, so SPF30 was likely not on the list.)

Last Article on the page


----------



## klsmith259

Thanks! @texas-ag-86 I have read a similar article and know the minimum DLI for tiftuf and mainstream bermuda grass. I am measuring the DLI now and projecting the increase for the spring/summer time.

https://cdn.cybergolf.com/images/1004/Daily_Light_Integral_Requirements_for_Warm-Season_Turfgrasses_Research_FGCSA_Year_One_Report_2014.pdf


----------



## texas-ag-86

I didn't see those links you posted @klsmith259 in your original - hazards of using an iPhone to view the posts I suppose.

SPF-30 is Outdoorpride's version of the TAMU Reveille hybrid. It is a safe bet to use the data points from Meghyn Meeks Doctoral dissertation. On a side note, it appears Reveille was never pushed to market.

Nice finds!


----------



## texas-ag-86

This is 6 weeks post initial seeding over bare soil. Two applications of Outsidepride's Lazyman Soil Aerator to address soil compaction (we have a good amount of clay) four weeks apart with. Lawn vac trails are visible after leaf-mageddon collection. We'll be spreading a yard of compost focusing on the bare spots and low areas over the next few days with plans to drop more seed on those sections needing attention. Weather looks perfect here over the next two weeks for germination.


----------



## grassgrassgrass

really REALLY enjoying my soft lawn thanks to this forum's help and advice! this was renovated almost exactly 3 months ago. neighboring lawns are dormant/almost dormant, so I'm already thankful my dog isn't constantly tracking in dead St Aug grass into the house all winter like last year  this is half SPF and half TTTF.


----------



## texas-ag-86

_______

Wait, did I just see a topiary dog on the back fence or did you dress the dog up for Christmas?!


[/quote]


----------



## jeffcatton

grassgrassgrass said:


> really REALLY enjoying my soft lawn thanks to this forum's help and advice! this was renovated almost exactly 3 months ago. neighboring lawns are dormant/almost dormant, so I'm already thankful my dog isn't constantly tracking in dead St Aug grass into the house all winter like last year  this is half SPF and half TTTF.


Very Nice indeed! A lot of work, great job!


----------



## grassgrassgrass

texas-ag-86 said:


> _______
> 
> Wait, did I just see a topiary dog on the back fence or did you dress the dog up for Christmas?!


haha! just a Christmas decoration, unfortunately...however, I do have some suitable box hedge I could probably work into a more permanent fixture...


----------



## grassgrassgrass

jeffcatton said:


> grassgrassgrass said:
> 
> 
> 
> really REALLY enjoying my soft lawn thanks to this forum's help and advice! this was renovated almost exactly 3 months ago. neighboring lawns are dormant/almost dormant, so I'm already thankful my dog isn't constantly tracking in dead St Aug grass into the house all winter like last year  this is half SPF and half TTTF.
> 
> Very Nice indeed! A lot of work, great job!
Click to expand...

means a lot coming from the DFW SPF expert! I think I'll need to take your advice on the super juice to help prep for next summer...


----------



## Turf Jitsu

grassgrassgrass said:


> really REALLY enjoying my soft lawn thanks to this forum's help and advice! this was renovated almost exactly 3 months ago. neighboring lawns are dormant/almost dormant, so I'm already thankful my dog isn't constantly tracking in dead St Aug grass into the house all winter like last year  this is half SPF and half TTTF.


Looks like SPF30 and TTTF is blending well.


----------



## cokenner

Some updated pics and info. I guess I'll be mowing/watering til Spring with this sporadic weather... Hehe. Having some bouts with either goose grass or crab grass on my boulevard strip and some small areas in the main lawn. Hand picked the main lawn but you can see photos of the boulevard strip below. There's also some Poa A that I've been hand pulling when I see it. Did a 2oz rate blanket application of Mesotrione and will follow up in about a week to try to knock out the Poa and hopefully the goosegrass/crabgrass. Despite these issues, I'm loving this grass so much. It stripes so well and fills in nicely!


----------



## Lem855

Well after an emergency trip up north over 10 days and trying to monitor weather and watering schedule remotely. I have to say the yard looks alot better than I expected. 
A bit shaggy to say the least and my monthly application schedule done yesterday, I finally got the leaf blow and mow job done. Hopefully I won't do this again till after Christmas. Got to address some poa issues and hand pull them, continue to hand water some of the reseeded spots, and also fix some dog 🐕 urine spots.
I really do love the lawn and the wife finally caved in and said it feels good under her feet...lol. 

A bit Shaggy 

Height of grass at 5-6" and new seedlings at 1"


Some poa that needs a new home, 🗑 🚮 



Finally a 4" mow job 🙌


----------



## klsmith259

Looking good! @Lem855 and @cokenner.


----------



## jeffcatton

@grassgrassgrass,@cokenner,@Lem855, Your grass looks awesome. I am sure the envy of your neighborhoods too as you all get a green Christmas! Nice work!


----------



## Lem855

jeffcatton said:


> @grassgrassgrass,@cokenner,@Lem855, Your grass looks awesome. I am sure the envy of your neighborhoods too as you all get a green Christmas! Nice work!


Thanks everyone. 
With climate change continuing to effect our planet and the weather being an average high of mid 70's for December in DFW, I may have to rethink tearing up my St. Augustine in the front and side yard for KBG/SPF30......or maybe not. 🤒 :roll:

MerryChristmas to all of you !


----------



## cokenner

jeffcatton said:


> @grassgrassgrass,@cokenner,@Lem855, Your grass looks awesome. I am sure the envy of your neighborhoods too as you all get a green Christmas! Nice work!


Thank you! Lots of conversation with my new, older neighbor. I have a feeling I'll be helping him next fall with his front lawn!


----------



## jeffcatton

Happy New Year!!!

Literally my last grass cut of 2021 !
Thanks everyone for your input and sharing your experience.


----------



## klsmith259

looks like NG turf is now offering Southern Blue sod publicly.

https://ngturf.com/product/southern-blue-texas-bluegrass-hybrid/


----------



## Kdaves12

cokenner said:


>


Well done


----------



## jeffcatton

klsmith259 said:


> looks like NG turf is now offering Southern Blue sod publicly.
> 
> https://ngturf.com/product/southern-blue-texas-bluegrass-hybrid/


WOW ... what a price for SOD! Makes all my hard work worth it, glad I did my own


----------



## jeffcatton

cokenner said:


>


@cokenner What a beautiful lawn you have, just gorgeous !


----------



## nitrobass24

Hey guys - Recognizing that September seems to be the optimal time to do a reno, but do you think its too late to renovate a section of my yard? I have a section is the 90% killed due to having some construction debris left on it for an extended period of time. At a minimum I would be re-sodding in April, so it seems like a good time to give this a shot.

In Dallas, TX if that matters.


----------



## cokenner

nitrobass24 said:


> Hey guys - Recognizing that September seems to be the optimal time to do a reno, but do you think its too late to renovate a section of my yard? I have a section is the 90% killed due to having some construction debris left on it for an extended period of time. At a minimum I would be re-sodding in April, so it seems like a good time to give this a shot.
> 
> In Dallas, TX if that matters.


I'd say you can start prepping the area, at least, and then wait til spring to seed. With the temps jumping around so much, I'd be weary laying seed and have it freeze after sprouting from some random-*** freezing temps. I got burned last October with my Fescue overseed. Very similar to our Christmas weather this year. I seeded September 5th this year on my reno and it was flawless! If you are sodding in April, what would you lay down?


----------



## Redtwin

@nitrobass24, if you are planning on sodding a warm-season turf like bermuda or Zoysia you can lay it any time of year. I laid my Empire Zoysia last January and it did just fine. It helps to get something on top of the soil to hold it together until the roots and rhizomes kick in.


----------



## nitrobass24

If I were to re-sod I would just do more St Aug, to keep it simple.

I really like the idea of a cool season lawn, because i can use Chems to kill off wild bermuda, which is a major problem for me. I think I am going to order some Combat Extreme South, which is a SPF30/TTTF blend and try it out this spring on this small area as a test. It gets full sun, so if it survives August, I will re-do everything next September.


----------



## cokenner

nitrobass24 said:


> If I were to re-sod I would just do more St Aug, to keep it simple.
> 
> I really like the idea of a cool season lawn, because i can use Chems to kill off wild bermuda, which is a major problem for me. I think I am going to order some Combat Extreme South, which is a SPF30/TTTF blend and try it out this spring on this small area as a test. It gets full sun, so if it survives August, I will re-do everything next September.


As long as you irrigate properly, it will survive!


----------



## bill101

nitrobass24 said:


> Hey guys - Recognizing that September seems to be the optimal time to do a reno, but do you think its too late to renovate a section of my yard? I have a section is the 90% killed due to having some construction debris left on it for an extended period of time. At a minimum I would be re-sodding in April, so it seems like a good time to give this a shot.
> 
> In Dallas, TX if that matters.


I seeded SPF-30 as recently as a month ago, with good results. With this unseasonably warm winter, I'd say "go for it". The worst that can happen is you'll have to reseed again in late Feb or in March.


----------



## GALawn

I figured I would throw my experience into this thread. Did a reno of my backyard starting in August. Moved from Bermuda to the SPF30. Like most, the waiting game for the KBG was the hardest part.

Still have a few trouble spots, but am really pleased with the progress so far. Looking forward to watching it take off in the spring.

FWIW this is on the north side of Atlanta


----------



## atticus

GALawn said:


> I figured I would throw my experience into this thread. Did a reno of my backyard starting in August. Moved from Bermuda to the SPF30. Like most, the waiting game for the KBG was the hardest part.
> 
> Still have a few trouble spots, but am really pleased with the progress so far. Looking forward to watching it take off in the spring.
> 
> FWIW this is on the north side of Atlanta


Wow, this looks great! Glad to see spf can be successful in Atlanta. We moved into a new house last fall and put sod down in the back, but the front is pretty much clover and weeds. Was looking to do a front lawn reno sometime this year and love the look of Spf30 but didn't know how it would fare in the Atlanta area. Do you have any concerns maintaining it this far south? Did you just go back to dirt and then seed? Is it weird to have a zoysia backyard and a kbg front? So many questions haha.


----------



## klsmith259

atticus said:


> GALawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I figured I would throw my experience into this thread. Did a reno of my backyard starting in August. Moved from Bermuda to the SPF30. Like most, the waiting game for the KBG was the hardest part.
> 
> Still have a few trouble spots, but am really pleased with the progress so far. Looking forward to watching it take off in the spring.
> 
> FWIW this is on the north side of Atlanta
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, this looks great! Glad to see spf can be successful in Atlanta. We moved into a new house last fall and put sod down in the back, but the front is pretty much clover and weeds. Was looking to do a front lawn reno sometime this year and love the look of Spf30 but didn't know how it would fare in the Atlanta area. Do you have any concerns maintaining it this far south? Did you just go back to dirt and then seed? Is it weird to have a zoysia backyard and a kbg front? So many questions haha.
Click to expand...

I have had SPF30 in my backyard for a little over a year now. My front is Bermuda. There are no major concerns at normal mowing heights (2-4 inches). The biggest issue that I have had is at the end of the summer/fall with the rain and sporadic temperatures. I was out of town for a few weeks and had fungus damage. Other than that it's great and it's recovered well. I'm reel mowing it and just nt sure if it's worth the extra input during the summer. It will need a lot of water cut at an inch or lower. There are pictures in my lawn journal if you want to see.


----------



## GALawn

I have not been through a summer with it yet. Hoping to get it to a good enough point this spring that it will survive the summer heat. I do have irrigation, so watering shouldn't be a problem.

I do need to read up on potential fungus prevention. My understanding is that kbg is prone to it.


----------



## atticus

GALawn said:


> I have not been through a summer with it yet. Hoping to get it to a good enough point this spring that it will survive the summer heat. I do have irrigation, so watering shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> I do need to read up on potential fungus prevention. My understanding is that kbg is prone to it.


I'll be following your progress, I would probably wait to start any kind of reno until late August/early September anyway if I decide to go the kbg route.


----------



## atticus

klsmith259 said:


> I have had SPF30 in my backyard for a little over a year now. My front is Bermuda. There are no major concerns at normal mowing heights (2-4 inches). The biggest issue that I have had is at the end of the summer/fall with the rain and sporadic temperatures. I was out of town for a few weeks and had fungus damage. Other than that it's great and it's recovered well. I'm reel mowing it and just nt sure if it's worth the extra input during the summer. It will need a lot of water cut at an inch or lower. There are pictures in my lawn journal if you want to see.


Your journal looks great, hopefully a good example of what to expect. I actually have a fairly large patch of Bermuda creeping into my front yard from my neighbors house and I sometimes wonder if I should just encourage that and let it take over. Feels like I would just constantly be fighting that anyway.


----------



## jayhawk

https://ngturf.com/Southern-Blue/

Is this the same or yet another variety?


----------



## jeffcatton

Trying something this year, a little early but giving it a try with the weather starting to warm up. Doing a double strength of docs super juice, see if that sparks growth and darkens it this early or a waste of money/time.

Experiment 1 for 2022


----------



## cokenner

Had some fun this weekend working on a fertilizing schedule starting this Spring and see where it takes me. I followed and took a lot of info from this post https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1969&start=260, but plan to add organic granular in the summer months.

I plan on using the remainder of my liquid fert I bought on Amazon (18-3-6) with some micros, but found out fast, at the rates I need to use it it's not cost effective. So like the thread linked above, I'll be using soluble Urea 46-0-0 (about $15 for a 50# bag), which is significantly cheaper, come late Spring/early Fall. I will also use FEature which is a soluble chelated iron and micros every other app. As for other macros, once I get my soil test back in the next few weeks I'll be adding those in as well in soluble form.

Here's my schedule! Everything is based on #s/1200sqft because that's the size of my front yard with SPF30.

2.5# Urea is 1#N/1200sqft

Spring - .25#N/app - 2#N total
Liquid spoon feeding every two weeks

February - 2 apps - .625#Urea/app
March - 2 apps - .625#Urea/app
April - 2 apps - .625#Urea/app
May - 2 apps - .625#Urea/app

Summer - 1#N total
Milorganite - should last 8-10 weeks according to label
Possible split applications

June - 20# Milo
July - nothing
August - nothing

Fall - .5#N/app - 3#N total
Nitrogen Blitz! Apps every two weeks

September - 2 apps - 1.25#Urea/app
October - 2 apps - 1.25#Urea/app
November - 2 apps - 1.25#Urea/app

I could continue on with the blitz into December and January according to the weather this year, or I could do less #N per app just to keep it fed and taper off.

Total #N/1200sqft is 6-7#.

But, that's it for now. I confused myself many times, but had fun doing the math. This is a very rudimentary schedule and I'm sure it will change a lot!


----------



## cokenner

jeffcatton said:


> Trying something this year, a little early but giving it a try with the weather starting to warm up. Doing a double strength of docs super juice, see if that sparks growth and darkens it this early or a waste of money/time.
> 
> Experiment 1 for 2022


Looking forward to your results. This would be a great idea in the fall as well!


----------



## NEBBERCRACKER

jeffcatton said:


> @NEBBERCRACKER
> 
> One more thing ... here are the new pop-up heads (rectangle 30'x4') I put in on the Front road area, this has made a huge difference in grass quality (green and not stressed) by water from the top and not just the drip line. Looking to do the same on the garage side. https://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/rain-bird-center-strip-nozzle-4-ft-x-30-ft-15cst
> 
> Get my parts from https://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/


Thanks and thanks or the info. Sorry for ling delay. I couldn't find my login information and didn't get any notifications this was active. I am trying to avoid groups on Facebook and hope this group is active.


----------



## spartanlawn

cokenner said:


> Had some fun this weekend working on a fertilizing schedule starting this Spring and see where it takes me. I followed and took a lot of info from this post https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1969&start=260, but plan to add organic granular in the summer months.
> 
> I plan on using the remainder of my liquid fert I bought on Amazon (18-3-6) with some micros, but found out fast, at the rates I need to use it it's not cost effective. So like the thread linked above, I'll be using soluble Urea 46-0-0 (about $15 for a 50# bag), which is significantly cheaper, come late Spring/early Fall. I will also use FEature which is a soluble chelated iron and micros every other app. As for other macros, once I get my soil test back in the next few weeks I'll be adding those in as well in soluble form.
> 
> Here's my schedule! Everything is based on #s/1200sqft because that's the size of my front yard with SPF30.
> 
> 2.5# Urea is 1#N/1200sqft
> 
> Spring - .25#N/app - 2#N total
> Liquid spoon feeding every two weeks
> 
> February - 2 apps - .625#Urea/app
> March - 2 apps - .625#Urea/app
> April - 2 apps - .625#Urea/app
> May - 2 apps - .625#Urea/app
> 
> Summer - 1#N total
> Milorganite - should last 8-10 weeks according to label
> Possible split applications
> 
> June - 20# Milo
> July - nothing
> August - nothing
> 
> Fall - .5#N/app - 3#N total
> Nitrogen Blitz! Apps every two weeks
> 
> September - 2 apps - 1.25#Urea/app
> October - 2 apps - 1.25#Urea/app
> November - 2 apps - 1.25#Urea/app
> 
> I could continue on with the blitz into December and January according to the weather this year, or I could do less #N per app just to keep it fed and taper off.
> 
> Total #N/1200sqft is 6-7#.
> 
> But, that's it for now. I confused myself many times, but had fun doing the math. This is a very rudimentary schedule and I'm sure it will change a lot!


Where do I get urea that cheap? The cheapest I could find is at least twice as much as you found.


----------



## cokenner

spartanlawn said:


> cokenner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had some fun this weekend working on a fertilizing schedule starting this Spring and see where it takes me. I followed and took a lot of info from this post https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1969&start=260, but plan to add organic granular in the summer months.
> 
> I plan on using the remainder of my liquid fert I bought on Amazon (18-3-6) with some micros, but found out fast, at the rates I need to use it it's not cost effective. So like the thread linked above, I'll be using soluble Urea 46-0-0 (about $15 for a 50# bag), which is significantly cheaper, come late Spring/early Fall. I will also use FEature which is a soluble chelated iron and micros every other app. As for other macros, once I get my soil test back in the next few weeks I'll be adding those in as well in soluble form.
> 
> Here's my schedule! Everything is based on #s/1200sqft because that's the size of my front yard with SPF30.
> 
> 2.5# Urea is 1#N/1200sqft
> 
> Spring - .25#N/app - 2#N total
> Liquid spoon feeding every two weeks
> 
> February - 2 apps - .625#Urea/app
> March - 2 apps - .625#Urea/app
> April - 2 apps - .625#Urea/app
> May - 2 apps - .625#Urea/app
> 
> Summer - 1#N total
> Milorganite - should last 8-10 weeks according to label
> Possible split applications
> 
> June - 20# Milo
> July - nothing
> August - nothing
> 
> Fall - .5#N/app - 3#N total
> Nitrogen Blitz! Apps every two weeks
> 
> September - 2 apps - 1.25#Urea/app
> October - 2 apps - 1.25#Urea/app
> November - 2 apps - 1.25#Urea/app
> 
> I could continue on with the blitz into December and January according to the weather this year, or I could do less #N per app just to keep it fed and taper off.
> 
> Total #N/1200sqft is 6-7#.
> 
> But, that's it for now. I confused myself many times, but had fun doing the math. This is a very rudimentary schedule and I'm sure it will change a lot!
> 
> 
> 
> Where do I get urea that cheap? The cheapest I could find is at least twice as much as you found.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the misconception. This was before I researched it in my area and I've yet to find any... It WILL range from 15-25 a bag if you find it locally though. Only thing I can find is Ammonium Sulfate and Urea + Ammonium Sulfate + Sulfur UAS. Some one posted a decent deal from Home Depot shipped to your door for Urea recently, here's the link https://www.homedepot.com/p/40-lbs-Box-Urea-Fertilizer-UGF-40/316885117#overlay. Product photos say DAP but it is UREA. If I end up going with straight Urea apps, this is what I will most likely buy. I'm leaning more towards the UAS 33-0-0 as long as it's soluble in water.


----------



## spartanlawn

@cokenner ok, thanks!


----------



## jakemauldin

I've got 200 lbs of SPF-30 to seed.


----------



## spartanlawn

@jakemauldin welcome back!


----------



## CenlaLowell

jakemauldin said:


> I've got 200 lbs of SPF-30 to seed.


How often are you planning on running the sprinklers? Eventually, I will catch alot of shade having crepe myrtles so this is in plans.


----------



## CenlaLowell

This is what I'm thinking of running later on down the line.

https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass-seed/fescue-grass-seed/combat-extreme-southern-zone.html


----------



## klsmith259

CenlaLowell said:


> This is what I'm thinking of running later on down the line.
> 
> https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass-seed/fescue-grass-seed/combat-extreme-southern-zone.html


The blend should work well. I just wonder about the KBG competing with the fescue in the beginning from seed. I assume it works otherwise they wouldn't sell it.


----------



## klsmith259

So I'm still debating Bermuda, but I think I'm going to keep what I have for now. We just got a new puppy and makes it challenging to spray roundup and perform a full renovation. I still think Bermuda works better for my preferences and climate but it's going to have to wait a little longer.

Here's a picture from today. It's cut at just under an inch and it's got quite a bit of POA mixed in but it will die off with the heat. I don't think there is anything I can treat it with, without killing the KBG.


----------



## CenlaLowell

klsmith259 said:


> So I'm still debating Bermuda, but I think I'm going to keep what I have for now. We just got a new puppy and makes it challenging to spray roundup and perform a full renovation. I still think Bermuda works better for my preferences and climate but it's going to have to wait a little longer.
> 
> Here's a picture from today. It's cut at just under an inch and it's got quite a bit of POA mixed in but it will die off with the heat. I don't think there is anything I can treat it with, without killing the KBG.


That's pretty cool kbg works in your area.


----------



## wilsonline

I'm in Fort Lauderdale, South Florida. I have ryegrass and need a cheap alternative for the summer. Would this be it? We have 3 months of average max at 90 and min at 80, pretty much 90 F for the day and 80 for the night. I have some shade on the front yard and lots of shade on the swale. We have lots of rain and I have irrigation. 
Rye is doing great, for now, but won't survive the summer. Maybe not even the spring. IDK. 
I thought of Zoysia, but it's a very finicky seed and the color is not that great, definitely not even close to the rye. 
Can this bluegrass be mowed at about 1 inch in the cooler parts of the year? How is it during the summer? thanks.


----------



## CenlaLowell

wilsonline said:


> I'm in Fort Lauderdale, South Florida. I have ryegrass and need a cheap alternative for the summer. Would this be it? We have 3 months of average max at 90 and min at 80, pretty much 90 F for the day and 80 for the night. I have some shade on the front yard and lots of shade on the swale. We have lots of rain and I have irrigation.
> Rye is doing great, for now, but won't survive the summer. Maybe not even the spring. IDK.
> I thought of Zoysia, but it's a very finicky seed and the color is not that great, definitely not even close to the rye.
> Can this bluegrass be mowed at about 1 inch in the cooler parts of the year? How is it during the summer? thanks.


If you can make it work I know I would be able to make it work. Heat will be your enemy


----------



## spartanlawn

klsmith259 said:


> So I'm still debating Bermuda, but I think I'm going to keep what I have for now. We just got a new puppy and makes it challenging to spray roundup and perform a full renovation. I still think Bermuda works better for my preferences and climate but it's going to have to wait a little longer.
> 
> Here's a picture from today. It's cut at just under an inch and it's got quite a bit of POA mixed in but it will die off with the heat. I don't think there is anything I can treat it with, without killing the KBG.


If it's poa t, it's probably game over. I'm using tenacity (the generic) to try to get rid of poa a right now. I recall it being pretty effective last year, but it's struggling to get much accomplished right now so I'm hesitant to recommend. Hard to know if it's the chemical or the chemist.


----------



## CenlaLowell

How long do you go without pre emergent before you seed?


----------



## klsmith259

spartanlawn said:


> klsmith259 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm still debating Bermuda, but I think I'm going to keep what I have for now. We just got a new puppy and makes it challenging to spray roundup and perform a full renovation. I still think Bermuda works better for my preferences and climate but it's going to have to wait a little longer.
> 
> Here's a picture from today. It's cut at just under an inch and it's got quite a bit of POA mixed in but it will die off with the heat. I don't think there is anything I can treat it with, without killing the KBG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it's poa t, it's probably game over. I'm using tenacity (the generic) to try to get rid of poa a right now. I recall it being pretty effective last year, but it's struggling to get much accomplished right now so I'm hesitant to recommend. Hard to know if it's the chemical or the chemist.
Click to expand...

Its POA A luckily, but the seed heads are already there. I didnt apply pre-m because of the uncertainty of a reno with bermuda seed, but the situation changed. im not sure if i want to buy yet another chemical for the arsenal. good to know i can use tenacity.


----------



## Easyluck

@spartanlawn Tenacity won't kill poa. It is sensitive to it and it will turn bright white but won't kill. Check the label.


----------



## cokenner

CenlaLowell said:


> How long do you go without pre emergent before you seed?


I did pre emergent roughly 60 days after seed down. I seeded on Sept 5th and put down prodiamine Nov 8. I also did Tenacity at seed down and then every 4 weeks afterward until November. still had Poa a, but hand pulled most of it and will stick with a prodiamine schedule from here on out to keep the Poa a back.


----------



## jakemauldin

cokenner said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long do you go without pre emergent before you seed?
> 
> 
> 
> I did pre emergent roughly 60 days after seed down. I seeded on Sept 5th and put down prodiamine Nov 8. I also did Tenacity at seed down and then every 4 weeks afterward until November. still had Poa a, but hand pulled most of it and will stick with a prodiamine schedule from here on out to keep the Poa a back.
Click to expand...

I think they might have been asking the opposite, like how long do you have to wait to seed after you did pre-m. Well last year I did liquid prodiamine and it's says it only take like 3-4 months. But I was 5+ months out from Pre-M and still couldn't get seed to germinate. I finally gave up and just waited to drop the rest of my seed this year.


----------



## CenlaLowell

jakemauldin said:


> cokenner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long do you go without pre emergent before you seed?
> 
> 
> 
> I did pre emergent roughly 60 days after seed down. I seeded on Sept 5th and put down prodiamine Nov 8. I also did Tenacity at seed down and then every 4 weeks afterward until November. still had Poa a, but hand pulled most of it and will stick with a prodiamine schedule from here on out to keep the Poa a back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think they might have been asking the opposite, like how long do you have to wait to seed after you did pre-m. Well last year I did liquid prodiamine and it's says it only take like 3-4 months. But I was 5+ months out from Pre-M and still couldn't get seed to germinate. I finally gave up and just waited to drop the rest of my seed this year.
Click to expand...

Yeah I sprayed pennant Magnum in February so there's no way I would think about seeding this year. I would be thinking it would not germinate.


----------



## cokenner

jakemauldin said:


> cokenner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long do you go without pre emergent before you seed?
> 
> 
> 
> I did pre emergent roughly 60 days after seed down. I seeded on Sept 5th and put down prodiamine Nov 8. I also did Tenacity at seed down and then every 4 weeks afterward until November. still had Poa a, but hand pulled most of it and will stick with a prodiamine schedule from here on out to keep the Poa a back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think they might have been asking the opposite, like how long do you have to wait to seed after you did pre-m. Well last year I did liquid prodiamine and it's says it only take like 3-4 months. But I was 5+ months out from Pre-M and still couldn't get seed to germinate. I finally gave up and just waited to drop the rest of my seed this year.
Click to expand...

Yep, my bad.


----------



## klsmith259

Sand leveled... We will see how it goes. I've leveled Bermuda before but not ***. (Yes, I know sand shouldn't be used on a hill/slope, but there is a 3 ton minimum so it was spread between the bottom and top of the yard).


----------



## Lem855

So I want to spread some SPF-30 seed to fill in some dead spots created from last years fall reno. Im looking at this week. I have a few bags of scotts 3n1 starter fert with tenacity inside. 
Is this a good way to get my pre and post emergent in and not hurt the grass root structure from the fall renovation? Im living in the transition zone of DFW Texas.


----------



## klsmith259

Lem855 said:


> So I want to spread some SPF-30 seed to fill in some dead spots created from last years fall reno. Im looking at this week. I have a few bags of scotts 3n1 starter fert with tenacity inside.
> Is this a good way to get my pre and post emergent in and not hurt the grass root structure from the fall renovation? Im living in the transition zone of DFW Texas.


Depending on the size that needs to fill in, I would let the existing grass spread and fill in those areas. If it's a large area I would add seed with starter fertilizer and tenacity as you plan to do. I haven't seen the 3in1 and only starter + tenacity. Just make sure it's only tenacity for the pre-m. Unless you have a lot of weeds from winter you don't really need the post-emergent right now and I would spot treat the areas that do.


----------



## cokenner

klsmith259 said:


> Sand leveled... We will see how it goes. I've leveled Bermuda before but not KBG. (Yes, I know sand shouldn't be used on a hill/slope, but there is a 3 ton minimum so it was spread between the bottom and top of the yard).


 Interested to see how this goes. I have a feeling you'll be fine with the amount of green I see. Post updates when you can! I'll be doing this l, probably, this fall.


----------



## klsmith259

cokenner said:


> klsmith259 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sand leveled... We will see how it goes. I've leveled Bermuda before but not KBG. (Yes, I know sand shouldn't be used on a hill/slope, but there is a 3 ton minimum so it was spread between the bottom and top of the yard).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interested to see how this goes. I have a feeling you'll be fine with the amount of green I see. Post updates when you can! I'll be doing this l, probably, this fall.
Click to expand...

Will do. The grass is growing quickly (slow release + Urea 1lb/k). I cut it at 3/4 of an inch before leveling and it's already up past 2 inches in 3 days. We have rain all this week so it should help as well. In the interim, I will cut with my rotary mower at 1.25 inches until it is mostly filled in.


----------



## Lem855

klsmith259 said:


> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I want to spread some SPF-30 seed to fill in some dead spots created from last years fall reno. Im looking at this week. I have a few bags of scotts 3n1 starter fert with tenacity inside.
> Is this a good way to get my pre and post emergent in and not hurt the grass root structure from the fall renovation? Im living in the transition zone of DFW Texas.
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on the size that needs to fill in, I would let the existing grass spread and fill in those areas. If it's a large area I would add seed with starter fertilizer and tenacity as you plan to do. I haven't seen the 3in1 and only starter + tenacity. Just make sure it's only tenacity for the pre-m. Unless you have a lot of weeds from winter you don't really need the post-emergent right now and I would spot treat the areas that do.
Click to expand...

I miss wrote the brand of weed killer it was bayer 3 n 1 .


----------



## klsmith259

Lem855 said:


> klsmith259 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I want to spread some SPF-30 seed to fill in some dead spots created from last years fall reno. Im looking at this week. I have a few bags of scotts 3n1 starter fert with tenacity inside.
> Is this a good way to get my pre and post emergent in and not hurt the grass root structure from the fall renovation? Im living in the transition zone of DFW Texas.
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on the size that needs to fill in, I would let the existing grass spread and fill in those areas. If it's a large area I would add seed with starter fertilizer and tenacity as you plan to do. I haven't seen the 3in1 and only starter + tenacity. Just make sure it's only tenacity for the pre-m. Unless you have a lot of weeds from winter you don't really need the post-emergent right now and I would spot treat the areas that do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I miss wrote the brand of weed killer it was bayer 3 n 1 .
Click to expand...

I found bayer 3 in 1 for southern lawns. if that is what you are looking at I would not use it. It isnt recommended for bluegrass at least quickly looking at lowes.


----------



## Lem855

klsmith259 said:


> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> klsmith259 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on the size that needs to fill in, I would let the existing grass spread and fill in those areas. If it's a large area I would add seed with starter fertilizer and tenacity as you plan to do. I haven't seen the 3in1 and only starter + tenacity. Just make sure it's only tenacity for the pre-m. Unless you have a lot of weeds from winter you don't really need the post-emergent right now and I would spot treat the areas that do.
> 
> 
> 
> I miss wrote the brand of weed killer it was bayer 3 n 1 .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I found bayer 3 in 1 for southern lawns. if that is what you are looking at I would not use it. It isnt recommended for bluegrass at least quickly looking at lowes.
Click to expand...

The bag I had purchased was for northern grass types, and mentioned bluegrass as ok.


----------



## spartanlawn

Easyluck said:


> @spartanlawn Tenacity won't kill poa. It is sensitive to it and it will turn bright white but won't kill. Check the label.


@Easyluck

There is a lot of information on this thread about anecdotal success and failures with poa a. I have really appreciated the collective experiences and sharing. I've been a part of many if not most. Trust me, we've all read the labels.

Here's more that aren't on this site: 
https://sportsfieldmanagementonline.com/2010/11/12/using-tenacity-for-poa-annua-control/4488/


----------



## Lem855

Has anyone used this product for controlling bermuda grass in SPF30 or any kbg type with invading bermuda grass problems?


----------



## cokenner

Lem855 said:


> Has anyone used this product for controlling bermuda grass in SPF30 or any kbg type with invading bermuda grass problems?


https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9273&start=380

Down about mid page. Use caution.


----------



## Lem855

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9273&start=380

Down about mid page. Use caution.
[/quote]

Glad he recovered from from that. I won't bother with that product.


----------



## cokenner

Lem855 said:


> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9273&start=380
> 
> Down about mid page. Use caution.


Glad he recovered from from that. I won't bother with that product.
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure he still does use it. Just a lot more cautious with it. He's also used Triclopyr Ester, which is what I will be using.


----------



## Cabecke2

Is anyone using SPF-30 in the Piedmont area of NC? Would love to get some feedback on what you are doing!


----------



## jeffcatton

cokenner said:


> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9273&start=380
> 
> Down about mid page. Use caution.
> 
> 
> 
> Glad he recovered from from that. I won't bother with that product.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure he still does use it. Just a lot more cautious with it. He's also used Triclopyr Ester, which is what I will be using.
[/quote]

@Lem855

Thanks @cokenner

Yes it works very well … just don't put too much down in one spot. Please follow instructions as they provide. I did recover from incorrectly applying to heavy.

The more mature KBG gets the nicer and stronger it is. I don't have any Bermuda in my grass anymore. I apply this every other month during growing season.

Hope that helps

Here is my yard as of today …


----------



## klsmith259

I decided to convert to Bermuda for reel mowing, but i will say the root system and depth of KBG roots were much deeper and stronger than I would hVe thought. Tilling it up has been a chore and I sprayed it 3 times with roundup.


----------



## spartanlawn

Cabecke2 said:


> Is anyone using SPF-30 in the Piedmont area of NC? Would love to get some feedback on what you are doing!


@Cabecke2 
I'm in Spartanburg. Not sure if that's local enough.


----------



## Ajoosten

@jeffcatton 
I am in Fort Worth and looking to go from my St. Augustine/Bermuda mess to the SPF30. What lawn did you start with and can you provide any details on how you transitioned to SPF 30? I have a substantial amount of shade in parts of my yard. Do you know anyone in the area that has SPF 30 with shade? Thanks!


----------



## jeffcatton

Ajoosten said:


> @jeffcatton
> I am in Fort Worth and looking to go from my St. Augustine/Bermuda mess to the SPF30. What lawn did you start with and can you provide any details on how you transitioned to SPF 30? I have a substantial amount of shade in parts of my yard. Do you know anyone in the area that has SPF 30 with shade? Thanks!


@Ajoosten

Congrats on you exploring the option of a lush-dark KBG-SPF30 lawn !
I and a lot of others in DFW area have posted in this thread. Go to PAGE 1 and read forward as there are several option to get rid of Bermuda (I used ROUNDUP on my entire yard, twice - take 3-4 weeks to till all of it during growing season, not when dormant) and options to keep it at bay so you have success. I know it is a lot, and the work to do it from an existing yard can seem daunting, but it is so worth in IMO. I burned my grass too at times using new chemicals, great place to learn and avoid that.

KBG works well in shaded areas with trees ... need a good soil base also in that area .. not just clay.

If you have question, ask away as many here can give their advice also on what they did and you may like their approach better than mine.

God time to start ... happy KBG days ahead and have fun learning with it.

Jeff


----------



## Ajoosten

@jeffcatton 
Thanks for the quick reply. I have read a lot of the post but haven't made it all the way through. My main concern was affecting the germination rate on the new seed with chemicals. Thinking of scarifying the St Augustine to beat the hell out of it then use roundup. I have 8000 sqft. So probably going to do a small test section first.


----------



## Lem855

@Ajoosten

In my yard I had a combination of wild bermuda and St.augustine. I knew I had to remove it to ensure it wouldn't come back again so after 2-3 doses of glyphosate and finally dead I removed the top layer of grass to ensure it wouldn't come back. The doses never affected the seed after waiting a month and fertilizeing and using pre emergent mixed in and seeding with SPF30. Go for it I


----------



## cokenner

Spring is in full swing in North Texas! Loving this grass cut at 1 3/4". Hopefully I can maintain that through the summer. Let's see some pics, guys!


----------



## jeffcatton

cokenner said:


> Spring is in full swing in North Texas! Loving this grass cut at 1 3/4". Hopefully I can maintain that through the summer. Let's see some pics, guys!


@cokenner

*NICE, VERY NICE !*


----------



## Lem855

Slowly getting back to normal but still have some struggles to figure out. 
I'm not going to worry about dog pee spots w 3 dogs it's hard to keep track as to were they go. Also I need to focus on filling the holes from removing the poa a and now this silver/ dusty growth on the SPF30 in my shaded area.


----------



## cokenner

Lem855 said:


> Slowly getting back to normal but still have some struggles to figure out.
> I'm not going to worry about dog pee spots w 3 dogs it's hard to keep track as to were they go. Also I need to focus on filling the holes from removing the poa a and now this silver/ dusty growth on the SPF30 in my shaded area.


Have you tried any fungicides for the shaded areas?


----------



## Lem855

cokenner said:


> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slowly getting back to normal but still have some struggles to figure out.
> I'm not going to worry about dog pee spots w 3 dogs it's hard to keep track as to were they go. Also I need to focus on filling the holes from removing the poa a and now this silver/ dusty growth on the SPF30 in my shaded area.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried any fungicides for the shaded areas?
Click to expand...

Yes I applied disease x about 1 month ago, Not sure what to apply next as I see people mixing products to fight disease issues. Was also thinking of limiting the nozzle flow of the sprinkler in that area but not sure if that would help either. SPF30 was supposed to be a good shade tolerant grass I thought.


----------



## spartanlawn

@cokenner 
I've had that same/similar white stuff and rust in various places. Best I can tell, it seems to go away on its own. I haven't noticed it actually killing the plant. I mulch leaves so I'm hesitant to apply fungicide since I want it to break down the organic matter.


----------



## Lem855

From what I can tell it's powdery mildew on the SPF30 and only in the shaded areas. As the earths orbit changes the amount of sun from week to week maybe it can go away naturally. Is there anything over the counter that worked well for this community?


----------



## cokenner

Lem855 said:


> From what I can tell it's powdery mildew on the SPF30 and only in the shaded areas. As the earths orbit changes the amount of sun from week to week maybe it can go away naturally. Is there anything over the counter that worked well for this community?


Haven't had the chance to use it on SPF-30. But I rotated DiseaseX and Eagle 20EW with my fescue with great results.


----------



## grassgrassgrass

Still thrilled I decided to try out the combo of SPF-30 and TTTF here in Dallas. I know we're in the 'easy' months but it's been fun to play on with my dog. Decided to try diagonal stripes for the first time today, and it brought me a lot of joy. In the front yard in shade I have the same fungus issues as posted earlier this week by others, and I plan to do nothing about it.


----------



## jeffcatton

grassgrassgrass said:


> Still thrilled I decided to try out the combo of SPF-30 and TTTF here in Dallas. I know we're in the 'easy' months but it's been fun to play on with my dog. Decided to try diagonal stripes for the first time today, and it brought me a lot of joy. In the front yard in shade I have the same fungus issues as posted earlier this week by others, and I plan to do nothing about it.


@grassgrassgrass

*Your lawn looks awesome, nice work!* After all the hard work you did, you should be liking the results! 
With that white powder fungus on a small area of the shaded grass, I had that only once early after the first year, used a BioAdvanced Fungus control for lawns (I believe it was).


----------



## Ajoosten

All of your grass looks awesome. Practically I don't think I can commit to mowing every 4 days. Who has SPF 30 and has figured out how to mow once a week? Is this possible? How do you do it?


----------



## CenlaLowell

Ajoosten said:


> All of your grass looks awesome. Practically I don't think I can commit to mowing every 4 days. Who has SPF 30 and has figured out how to mow once a week? Is this possible? How do you do it?


I wonder if PGR works good on this turf type


----------



## jeffcatton

Ajoosten said:


> All of your grass looks awesome. Practically I don't think I can commit to mowing every 4 days. Who has SPF 30 and has figured out how to mow once a week? Is this possible? How do you do it?


@Ajoosten, there are several types of PGRs available if you want to slow it (any grass) down with some side benefits too. Here is a good video -> 




This time of year I do cut every 3-4 days and slow down cutting during summer (1 per week) and winter (every 2-3 weeks)


----------



## Ajoosten

CoastalFellow said:


> Day 12 of single strain SPF30 in coastal SC. Topdress with compost and topsoil after full burnoff.


My leaf situation looks similar to yours in your backyard. How is the SPF 30 holding up in that much shade and leaf coverage?


----------



## Lem855

cokenner said:


> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I can tell it's powdery mildew on the SPF30 and only in the shaded areas. As the earths orbit changes the amount of sun from week to week maybe it can go away naturally. Is there anything over the counter that worked well for this community?
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't had the chance to use it on SPF-30. But I rotated DiseaseX and Eagle 20EW with my fescue with great results.
Click to expand...

I'll have to try that cocktail if it doesn't go away, thanks for the info.

On another note has anyone used Blue heat mixed in with SPF30?


----------



## texas-ag-86

Same issue here with the dusty growth on the blades. It seems to be migrating around the lawn from one section to the next. It's been about 2 months since it started. I've not bothered attempting to treat it; other than being a little unsightly, it doesn't appear to negatively affect the blades in any way. I had rolled out about a yard of composted soil two months ago when the blade growth was rather anemic and thought that might have been responsible for introducing the fungus.

My lawn looks almost like yours in terms of growth. I started in September '21 and had two additional over seedings to recover from a heavy rain fall event. From what others are posting, the roots grow and get heavily established before the blade growth kicks in. I do have a small patch that was planted in Oct '20 that is *really* kicking in now ... and starting to choke out the St Augustine that still lingers. I'm spot treating the St. A with RoundUp where the HBG isn't really well established.

We had brown spots too and dismissed it thinking it was due to our four legged pet. However, those brown spots grew back in and no new spots have cropped up where there's been urine. Given how many grubs I've dug up in the compost pile, it's my suspicion these brown spots are actually a result of the grub worms.

In the meantime, the lawn is getting treated with Docs Super Juice every 2 weeks based on the success @jeffcatton has had in addition to using Outside Pride's Lazy Man's Soil Conditioner (underlying soil is clay and depleted of nutrients) and liquid iron treatments.



Lem855 said:


> Slowly getting back to normal but still have some struggles to figure out.
> I'm not going to worry about dog pee spots w 3 dogs it's hard to keep track as to were they go. Also I need to focus on filling the holes from removing the poa a and now this silver/ dusty growth on the SPF30 in my shaded area.


​
If you zoom in on the image towards to lower half, the fungus growth is very obvious.​​​


----------



## Lem855

So the fungus in the shaded area seems to slowly be diminishing. The the only thing that changed is the fact that the area in question is getting more sunlight due to the daylight and the sun moving around our home day after day. 
So I'll most likely hold off on a fungiside application for now and just continue my bi weekly urea applications and monthly liquid plan of nxt products. This year I'm doing the same program for my St Augustine front yard and man does that look pretty good to.


----------



## cokenner

Guess which yard is mine! 😈

Was having some fun with my daughters drone the other day.


----------



## jeffcatton

cokenner said:


> Guess which yard is mine! 😈
> 
> Was having some fun with my daughters drone the other day.


WOW, nice - Makes you tear up doesn't it :lol:


----------



## Lem855

cokenner said:


> Guess which yard is mine! 😈
> 
> Was having some fun with my daughters drone the other day.


It's 11 pm now, so why is it that I want to go out and spread two tons of iron every time I see photos like this....does anyone have medicine for this? Or I'll settle for your recipe!

"Just a little addicted!"


----------



## GALawn

CenlaLowell said:


> Ajoosten said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of your grass looks awesome. Practically I don't think I can commit to mowing every 4 days. Who has SPF 30 and has figured out how to mow once a week? Is this possible? How do you do it?
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if PGR works good on this turf type
Click to expand...

I am currently running tnex on my SPF30. Height right now is about .5" and I'm cutting every 4-5 days. Between that and the FEature things are popping. I'll likely let it come out of regulation in mid May and grow it out a little higher for summer. Location is Northside of Atlanta.


----------



## cokenner

GALawn said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ajoosten said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of your grass looks awesome. Practically I don't think I can commit to mowing every 4 days. Who has SPF 30 and has figured out how to mow once a week? Is this possible? How do you do it?
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if PGR works good on this turf type
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am currently running tnex on my SPF30. Height right now is about .5" and I'm cutting every 4-5 days. Between that and the FEature things are popping. I'll likely let it come out of regulation in mid May and grow it out a little higher for summer. Location is Northside of Atlanta.
Click to expand...

Currently not going for any PGRs, but I like the idea of it at .5". I'd just keep mowing every day with my small lawn! I am using FEature every 4 weeks with my fert going down every 2 weeks at .25#N. What fert are you using?


----------



## cokenner

Had a spot gray out and wither on me a week or so ago. Freaked out and did about everything. Fungicide, grub killer, etc. Couldn't pinpoint my issue. Ended up being drought stress from improper sprinkler coverage... Bounced back rather quickly! The bare spots are where I dug to see if I could find grubs.


----------



## jeffcatton

cokenner said:


> Had a spot gray out and wither on me a week or so ago. Freaked out and did about everything. Fungicide, grub killer, etc. Couldn't pinpoint my issue. Ended up being drought stress from improper sprinkler coverage... Bounced back rather quickly! The bare spots are where I dug to see if I could find grubs.


Nice recovery!


----------



## texas-ag-86

I picked up a small quantity of Triad Select to kill off the St Augustine encroaching into the HBG growth. The warning labels and PPE requirements fill up two pages of the booklet attached to the bottle, so I'm wanting to err on the side of caution with the type of sprayer to use.

Any input/recommendations on favorite sprayers would be appreciated. Mostly spot treatment. There's only about 250 sq. ft. that needs attention.

Thanks!


----------



## Lem855

:wacko: Well after being away for 2 weeks and thinking the fungus was going away the amount of the fungus just snowballed. I guess tomorrow it's fungiside day and much needed mow job. Hope this helps soon. 🙏


----------



## bill101

cokenner said:


> Guess which yard is mine! 😈
> 
> Was having some fun with my daughters drone the other day.


I love that image! - I get that same feeling when I look at my yard during the long months each year when it is the lone oasis of green lawn in a sea of unattractive dormant brown bermuda and zoysia lawns surrounding me. This is my third year with SPF-30 in central Mississippi (zone 8a). Loving it!


----------



## bill101

Ajoosten said:


> All of your grass looks awesome. Practically I don't think I can commit to mowing every 4 days. Who has SPF 30 and has figured out how to mow once a week? Is this possible? How do you do it?


One option is to use a robot lawnmower, then you can mow daily if you choose to, with no effort on your part. Of course, you would have to give up on striping, but how long do stripes last anyway? 
Currently, I'm using the Robomow RS622 on my 1/3 acre and only have to invest the time to regularly edge, since the mower is on a schedule and mows on its own. If buying today, I'd probably buy either the Husqvarna robot or the WORX one. The Robomow company seems to have gone downhill since it was sold to a congomerate.


----------



## ccomp83

@jeffcatton Im trying bluemuda in my backyard with SPF-30. I planted seed Oct 21' it came in pretty good and its going decent now. My question is have you had any root disease with your KBG especially when the temps in July/Aug? im trying to get ahead of it cause i have heard KBG's can get root disease in high temp areas (I also live in Fort Worth, TX) and you cant really see/know root diseases until you see it on top and at which point you are a month or so behind. If you have experienced this, any suggestions on a fungicide product? I already experience the white blade issue and think im over that now that the sun has moved.

Also i havent started yet, but my plan is to mow .5-.75. Right now im at 1.2 with my rotary mower because we did some construction in the backyard and my lawn is not level anymore. im going to level it next week and reset my HOC. Any issues you see with this?

Appreciate your thoughts/help in advance! If anyone else has thoughts im all ears! Thank you


----------



## jeffcatton

@ccomp83

I did not experience any root diseases, not that I am aware of 

I mow at 2-2.5" with rotary also, rotary is awesome IMO. I like the longer blade as it helps suppress the weeds and Bermuda. This is my 4th year and it is extremely thick and strong thick blades now. I had the *********** but it went away in a week+. There is also product for plants called "Daconil Fungicide" (red bottle - concentrated) - I have used this earlier also.


----------



## cokenner

jeffcatton said:


> @ccomp83
> 
> I did not experience any root diseases, not that I am aware of
> 
> I mow at 2-2.5" with rotary also, rotary is awesome IMO. I like the longer blade as it helps suppress the weeds and Bermuda. This is my 4th year and it is extremely thick and strong thick blades now. I had the *********** but it went away in a week+. There is also product for plants called "Daconil Fungicide" (red bottle - concentrated) - I have used this earlier also.


Curious if you do your own pre-em? I'm wanting to get my timing and dosages down to stop the Poa Annua. It's not overly abundant this year, but still there even after pre-em applications. It bugs the crap outta me!


----------



## jeffcatton

cokenner said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> @ccomp83
> 
> I did not experience any root diseases, not that I am aware of
> 
> I mow at 2-2.5" with rotary also, rotary is awesome IMO. I like the longer blade as it helps suppress the weeds and Bermuda. This is my 4th year and it is extremely thick and strong thick blades now. I had the *********** but it went away in a week+. There is also product for plants called "Daconil Fungicide" (red bottle - concentrated) - I have used this earlier also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Curious if you do your own pre-em? I'm wanting to get my timing and dosages down to stop the Poa Annua. It's not overly abundant this year, but still there even after pre-em applications. It bugs the crap outta me!
Click to expand...

@ccomp83, I do not do any ... I only had 2-3 show, even weeds stay clear of my yard  Lucky for me I guess. My grass is so think/dense and tall (2-2.5") that I am not sure a weed can even grow like they do in my garden rocks. I do see it in my neighbors yards, both sides have plenty.


----------



## cokenner

jeffcatton said:


> cokenner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> @ccomp83
> 
> I did not experience any root diseases, not that I am aware of
> 
> I mow at 2-2.5" with rotary also, rotary is awesome IMO. I like the longer blade as it helps suppress the weeds and Bermuda. This is my 4th year and it is extremely thick and strong thick blades now. I had the *********** but it went away in a week+. There is also product for plants called "Daconil Fungicide" (red bottle - concentrated) - I have used this earlier also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Curious if you do your own pre-em? I'm wanting to get my timing and dosages down to stop the Poa Annua. It's not overly abundant this year, but still there even after pre-em applications. It bugs the crap outta me!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @ccomp83, I do not do any ... I only had 2-3 show, even weeds stay clear of my yard  Lucky for me I guess. My grass is so think/dense and tall (2-2.5") that I am not sure a weed can even grow like they do in my garden rocks. I do see it in my neighbors yards, both sides have plenty.
Click to expand...

That's awesome to hear. I don't plan to always keep my HOC the same. Fall thru late Spring I plan to keep it at 1" reel mowed and then Late June thru August I will use my rotary and bring it up to your HOC. Hopefully the change in HOC throughout the year wont be stressful and make it hearty like yours.


----------



## Lem855

Curious if anyone in Northern Texas/ DFW has made changes to their watering schedule because of the unusual higher temperatures. If yes what was it before, and what is it now?


----------



## traderntexas

Lem855 said:


> Curious if anyone in Northern Texas/ DFW has made changes to their watering schedule because of the unusual higher temperatures. If yes what was it before, and what is it now?


This is a good question. The heat continues... and we have a much hotter summer than normal... it'll be interesting to see how everyone's KBG holds up... and just how much water will have to be used to keep it green.


----------



## cokenner

Lem855 said:


> Curious if anyone in Northern Texas/ DFW has made changes to their watering schedule because of the unusual higher temperatures. If yes what was it before, and what is it now?


This is year 1 for me, I live in Wichita Falls. I've had some stressed spots already and i'm putting down roughly 1.5" total with two waterings per week. I'm about to put down some Hydratain to hopefully help and not have to increase watering too much. I hand water the stressed spots. It's doing alright. My HOC is 1 1/8" atm. Going to try to continue to roll with that.


----------



## texas-ag-86

.​Anyone experience this kind of brown patch?
.​​


----------



## Lem855

Wow my HOC is nowhere near that short. At 2.-1/4" I'm trying to block out the fungus issue that I had and trying to let it develop a deeper root system up until the fall. I to am about 1.5" of water per week on a every 5 day water schedule and mowing 1 x per week. It does get shaggy at times &#128556;.


----------



## lanc0227

A couple of questions on the SPF. 1.) Is it good in the shade? 2.) Is it too late to seed in North Texas?


----------



## cokenner

lanc0227 said:


> A couple of questions on the SPF. 1.) Is it good in the shade? 2.) Is it too late to seed in North Texas?


1. Partial shade, it does good, especially in our climate. The more shaded areas of my lawn (house), it is more thin, but still grows decently.

2. Some folks here have seeded as late as June and had good results. Best time I would say is early September if you can wait. That's what I did and had a lot of time to prep and plan. Also, we're currently in a La Nina weather pattern, so this summer is going to be pretty dry and hot, most likely.

If you get time read through the whole thread. Lots of progress photos from folks with different seeding times as well as A LOT of great info!


----------



## cokenner

texas-ag-86 said:


> .​Anyone experience this kind of brown patch?
> .​​


That looks like drought stress to me. Maybe not getting enough water?


----------



## texas-ag-86

It could be ... we are on a 2x per week restriction now. Double checked the spray patterns to be sure we are getting good coverage. Unfortunately, it seems to be spreading.


----------



## bill101

texas-ag-86 said:


> .​Anyone experience this kind of brown patch?
> .​​


Not sure, but it could be poa annua weeds dying out in your bluegrass lawn. Do you have a heavy infestation of Poa Annua in your lawn? I do, and it is dying now in the heat, leaving my SPF-30 Kentucky Bluegrass lawn with brown areas where the mixed in poa has died. I plan to increase my cutting height a lot so that the green Bluegrass can grow and hide the shorter dead poa that is mixed in.


----------



## texas-ag-86

bill101 said:


> texas-ag-86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .​Anyone experience this kind of brown patch?
> .​​
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure, but it could be poa annua weeds dying out in your bluegrass lawn. Do you have a heavy infestation of Poa Annua in your lawn? I do, and it is dying now in the heat, leaving my SPF-30 Kentucky Bluegrass lawn with brown areas where the mixed in poa has died. I plan to increase my cutting height a lot so that the green Bluegrass can grow and hide the shorter dead poa that is mixed in.
Click to expand...

Thanks for chiming in. I definitely had some Poa Annua early on - dense, clump, with a root ball. Really sparse (fortunately) and removed those by hand. I'd be relieved if it actually is PA! This is really discouraging. I'm joining you on the increased HoC plan.


----------



## cokenner

Memorial Day Stripes! Hope everyone's grass is holding up to the heat!


----------



## jeffcatton

cokenner said:


> Memorial Day Stripes! Hope everyone's grass is holding up to the heat!


@cokenner Your yard/grass is awesome! Very short and holding, nice.

Our is holding up so far also ...


----------



## bassmanaustin

Wow looks like SPF30 will hold up better than TTTF in the Texas heat. Looks awesome guys. Going to try and overseed my lawn this fall with it and see how it goes.


----------



## cokenner

jeffcatton said:


> cokenner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Memorial Day Stripes! Hope everyone's grass is holding up to the heat!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @cokenner Your yard/grass is awesome! Very short and holding, nice.
> 
> Our is holding up so far also ...
Click to expand...

@jeffcatton can't wait for my lawn to be as mature as yours! I stopped reel mowing @ 1" and, after the cool weather and rain the past week, changed my HOC to 2 1/4". Those two weeks of heat where we skipped Spring worried me. I'll be bringing it back down in the Fall.


----------



## traderntexas

Hi guys,

How many inches of water are you putting down each week on your SPF lawns?? What type of soil is under the turfgrass?
Thanks.


----------



## Puffoluffagus

I decided to give this stuff a go. I have plans to renovate my backyard(outdoor kitchen etc.) And didnt want to do any expensive re sodding before contractors tore up the back yard. My backyard gets a fair bit of shade and the previous homeowners had resodded with bermuda, so it was destined to fail. I forgot to do an overseed last fall and decided to just throw out the seed in early February here in savannah, GA as it was set to expire. It germinated the best in the shady and bare areas (as expected), sprout and pout for several weeks, I don't think it was til mid April that I started to get some vertical growth. But it's holding up so far in my heat and humidity. We aren't yet in the thick of the summer here. So we'll see if this young grass survives. If not, it took well enough in the shaded areas that I would try a legit reno in the fall to give it a better chance here.


----------



## cokenner

traderntexas said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> How many inches of water are you putting down each week on your SPF lawns?? What type of soil is under the turfgrass?
> Thanks.


I'm currently putting down about 1.5" a week


----------



## texas-ag-86

In CenTex as well. Currently putting down 1"/wk. There is about 5" of fill soil (lots of clay) when the builder graded the back yard that is on top of limestone and coral formations (we are just east of I-35 and on the edge of the Hill Country.)

Breaking the watering out to ½" each watering day to avoid over saturation and runoff. May have to up the amount. Forecast this week shows high of 100 next 3-4 days and should be a good indicator.



traderntexas said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> How many inches of water are you putting down each week on your SPF lawns?? What type of soil is under the turfgrass?
> Thanks.


----------



## texas-ag-86

I've planted three times now in different locations (Front and Back yard.) First method was an over seed on dormant St Augustine; very limited results and won't do it again. Second was top soil and seed in December - much better results until we were hit with the deep freeze in '21 here in TX.

Last method was Urea (overdose) + Roundup to kill the St Augustine (very, very effective!) and removing the dead plant remains. Waited until September to spread out about a 1/4" of compost over the entire back area, then seeded. We did get a very heavy rain 7 days post seed but still had about 60% germination. It required more top soil and a second seeding.

Others have noted their experience with the growth is a rather rapid fill-in once it starts to grow. That hasn't been my experience - it is very slow to fill-in in my smaller area that survived the deep freeze. I compensated the last seeding by putting down 5 pounds/1000 sqft instead of the 3 pounds Outside Pride recommended. It might be due to the clay soil base or it's just devoid of nutrients now. I use Doc's SuperJuice liquid fertilizer - it's been the most effective of all the products I've used so far. @jeffcatton has quite the testimony of how it saved his lawn and a strong proponent of the product.

The grass DOES perform very well for us in the shaded areas. The areas are filtered light, not 100% blocked.

Hope this helps.



Puffoluffagus said:


> I decided to give this stuff a go. I have plans to renovate my backyard(outdoor kitchen etc.) And didnt want to do any expensive re sodding before contractors tore up the back yard. My backyard gets a fair bit of shade and the previous homeowners had resodded with bermuda, so it was destined to fail. I forgot to do an overseed last fall and decided to just throw out the seed in early February here in savannah, GA as it was set to expire. It germinated the best in the shady and bare areas (as expected), sprout and pout for several weeks, I don't think it was til mid April that I started to get some vertical growth. But it's holding up so far in my heat and humidity. We aren't yet in the thick of the summer here. So we'll see if this young grass survives. If not, it took well enough in the shaded areas that I would try a legit reno in the fall to give it a better chance here.


----------



## texas-ag-86

Looks fantastic!



cokenner said:


> Memorial Day Stripes! Hope everyone's grass is holding up to the heat!


----------



## traderntexas

texas-ag-86 said:


> In CenTex as well. Currently putting down 1"/wk. There is about 5" of fill soil (lots of clay) when the builder graded the back yard that is on top of limestone and coral formations (we are just east of I-35 and on the edge of the Hill Country.)
> 
> Breaking the watering out to ½" each watering day to avoid over saturation and runoff. May have to up the amount. Forecast this week shows high of 100 next 3-4 days and should be a good indicator.
> 
> 
> 
> traderntexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> How many inches of water are you putting down each week on your SPF lawns?? What type of soil is under the turfgrass?
> Thanks.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply on this topic. I'm in the Waco area, right near I-35 as well, with basically the same soil profile. Before I even think about trying the SPF, I'll make some significant changes to the soil. This string of 100 degree days will really put this grass to the drought/heat test.


----------



## texas-ag-86

Update: It's *Grub* damage.



texas-ag-86 said:


> .​Anyone experience this kind of brown patch?
> .​​


----------



## texas-ag-86

traderntexas said:


> texas-ag-86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In CenTex as well. Currently putting down 1"/wk. There is about 5" of fill soil (lots of clay) when the builder graded the back yard that is on top of limestone and coral formations (we are just east of I-35 and on the edge of the Hill Country.)
> 
> Breaking the watering out to ½" each watering day to avoid over saturation and runoff. May have to up the amount. Forecast this week shows high of 100 next 3-4 days and should be a good indicator.
> 
> 
> 
> traderntexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> How many inches of water are you putting down each week on your SPF lawns?? What type of soil is under the turfgrass?
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for your reply on this topic. I'm in the Waco area, right near I-35 as well, with basically the same soil profile. Before I even think about trying the SPF, I'll make some significant changes to the soil. This string of 100 degree days will really put this grass to the drought/heat test.
Click to expand...

You're welcome.

I've gone ahead and upped the irrigation to 2" per week. It's holding up really well in this heat.


----------



## cokenner

Not sure if anyone else is doing this, but I've started "syringing" my KBG about 2-3pm every day for about 10 min with my MP rotators. If you have sprinkler heads that put out more water, you would do it for less time. It seems to help out a lot. Pete with GCI turf gives a good rundown on it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0EX9kPaxkc


----------



## bill101

With the near or at 100 degree temperatures, that seem to be continuing with no end in sight, I'm watering 1/2 inch every evening (in ground automatic impact sprinklers running 30 minutes each day). Even with that, the ground is toasty and dry in some areas by the next afternoon. (Madison, MS location)


----------



## cokenner

bill101 said:


> With the near or at 100 degree temperatures, that seem to be continuing with no end in sight, I'm watering 1/2 inch every evening (in ground automatic impact sprinklers running 30 minutes each day). Even with that, the ground is toasty and dry in some areas by the next afternoon. (Madison, MS location)


That's a lot of water. I would say that If you spread it out over less days and longer times you might be better off. Granted the impact sprinklers will put out a lot of water which will run off due to the high precipitation rate, assuming you don't have sandy soil. I use MP rotators and I put down about .5" per watering with no runoff, just a bit of overspray. It's like a 3hr runtime though due to their low precipitation rates.

All that said, I am impressed with this grass. My temps have been 95+ and triple digit for most of the past 3 weeks and it is still green and holding strong. I have some brown spots on the edges and some thin spots in the middle, but those will fill in when we have cooler temps. Ready for this stand to mature so it can continue to impress!


----------



## bassmanaustin

How is everyone's SPF 30 holding up in the Texas Heat? Looked good last month but my guess is this month is a different story. My TTTF is taking a beating, will be overseeding in the fall with SPF30.


----------



## jeffcatton

bassmanaustin said:


> How is everyone's SPF 30 holding up in the Texas Heat? Looked good last month but my guess is this month is a different story. My TTTF is taking a beating, will be overseeding in the fall with SPF30.


@bassmanaustin Holding vey well actually with a couple stress spots but just hand watered to help them. Been 102+ and more this week .. .maybe even another month.


----------



## bassmanaustin

@jeffcatton Damn still looks good and hanging strong! Thanks for posting.


----------



## cokenner

bassmanaustin said:


> How is everyone's SPF 30 holding up in the Texas Heat? Looked good last month but my guess is this month is a different story. My TTTF is taking a beating, will be overseeding in the fall with SPF30.


After this morning's mow.


----------



## traderntexas

jeffcatton said:


> bassmanaustin said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is everyone's SPF 30 holding up in the Texas Heat? Looked good last month but my guess is this month is a different story. My TTTF is taking a beating, will be overseeding in the fall with SPF30.
> 
> 
> 
> @bassmanaustin Holding vey well actually with a couple stress spots but just hand watered to help them. Been 102+ and more this week .. .maybe even another month.
Click to expand...

Hi Jeff,

I'm data collecting. Can you tell us how many inches of water you're giving it per week? Thank you.


----------



## bassmanaustin

@cokenner Wow that looks great! Where in North Texas are you? Are you getting the same heat we are in Central Texas?


----------



## cokenner

bassmanaustin said:


> @cokenner Wow that looks great! Where in North Texas are you? Are you getting the same heat we are in Central Texas?


I'm in Wichita Falls. We are getting the same heat for sure.


----------



## bassmanaustin

Oh ya was stationed at Sheppard AFB it definitely gets hot. Grass is kicking ***, thanks for posting.

Did you use Outside Pride for your SPF-30 seed?


----------



## jeffcatton

traderntexas said:


> jeffcatton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bassmanaustin said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is everyone's SPF 30 holding up in the Texas Heat? Looked good last month but my guess is this month is a different story. My TTTF is taking a beating, will be overseeding in the fall with SPF30.
> 
> 
> 
> @bassmanaustin Holding vey well actually with a couple stress spots but just hand watered to help them. Been 102+ and more this week .. .maybe even another month.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hi Jeff,
> 
> I'm data collecting. Can you tell us how many inches of water you're giving it per week? Thank you.
Click to expand...

I do about 2"+ / week. When it's 105 I do an extra early morning watering or a mid afternoon (5 min per zone) to cool it down a bit.


----------



## cokenner

bassmanaustin said:


> Oh ya was stationed at Sheppard AFB it definitely gets hot. Grass is kicking @ss, thanks for posting.
> 
> Did you use Outside Pride for your SPF-30 seed?


Yes, I actually have about 5lbs left after the reno this Fall.


----------



## MOJOERASER

Don't think that bluegrass is going to make it long term in Texas heat I would t even grow it in Oklahoma


----------



## jeffcatton

MOJOERASER said:


> Don't think that bluegrass is going to make it long term in Texas heat I would t even grow it in Oklahoma


@MOJOERASER Not sure what you are basing that odd comment on but you go ahead and just keep using Bermuda or other alternatives, I have no issue with that, enjoy whatever you use. Have you even read or gone through any part of this group?

I am in DFW and this is my 3rd year *HOT SUMMER" enjoying the beauty of KBG-SPF30 and it is NOT slowing down, only getting stronger


----------



## cokenner

jeffcatton said:


> MOJOERASER said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't think that bluegrass is going to make it long term in Texas heat I would t even grow it in Oklahoma
> 
> 
> 
> @MOJOERASER Not sure what you are basing that odd comment on but you go ahead and just keep using Bermuda or other alternatives, I have no issue with that, enjoy whatever you use. Have you even read or gone through any part of this group?
> 
> I am in DFW and this is my 3rd year *HOT SUMMER" enjoying the beauty of KBG-SPF30 and it is NOT slowing down, only getting stronger
Click to expand...

Amen.


----------



## CenlaLowell

I'm in Central Louisiana and it's HOT hasn't rained for 10 days, so I'm wondering how's the SPF 30 holding up for y'all?


----------



## jeffcatton

CenlaLowell said:


> I'm in Central Louisiana and it's HOT hasn't rained for 10 days, so I'm wondering how's the SPF 30 holding up for y'all?


@CenlaLowell ...

Our rainfall here in May was 3", June was not much better but not over yet (~10-11" this year so far ... well down from prior year) . Keeping the grass going is mostly self watering for it to survive the heat but with a couple stressed areas I started to give a little hand watering to to help it out. We are holding up so far and others I have seen in the DFW area are amazingly better than me (some are shorter than mine, they did a great job with the heat) 

Year----Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec	Total
2022----0.08	2.03	2.12	2.54	3.00 
2021	----0.85	2.22	3.03	4.50	7.77	2.15	1.50	4.82	0.25	2.96	3.11	0.43	33.59
2020----5.00	3.88	6.75	1.90	7.54	5.35	2.31	1.28	3.87	1.74	1.08	3.00	43.70
2019	----1.58	1.29	2.01	6.75	8.15	4.13	0.78	2.44	T	4.42	1.80	1.17	34.52


----------



## CenlaLowell

MOJOERASER said:


> Don't think that bluegrass is going to make it long term in Texas heat I would t even grow it in Oklahoma


I eventually want to try it in Louisiana so I'm paying close attention to how everyone handling this heat


----------



## Lem855

Well I bit the bullet and ordered the outsiderpride combat extreme southern seed to blend in with my SPF30 this fall. Having a variety of heat tolerant types of grass that like a taller hoc my be better for me than the straight SPF30. The lawn has alot of dormant ares where it's checked out, brown out and no matter what I throw at it it still brown. Watering frequently as well. Has anyone used a blend of seed with SPF30? Would really like your input on how it's holding up in DFW, Texas 100+ heat.


----------



## jeffcatton

Lem855 said:


> Well I bit the bullet and ordered the outsiderpride combat extreme southern seed to blend in with my SPF30 this fall. Having a variety of heat tolerant types of grass that like a taller hoc my be better for me than the straight SPF30. The lawn has alot of dormant ares where it's checked out, brown out and no matter what I throw at it it still brown. Watering frequently as well. Has anyone used a blend of seed with SPF30? Would really like your input on how it's holding up in DFW, Texas 100+ heat.


@Lem855 sounds like an interesting direction to take. Keep us updated on the progress and success of the blend and if it also helps thicken overall yard (helping the KBG some through the heat).


----------



## Lem855

@jeffcatton would you be willing to share what you use with a products list and schedule of what you use when for your SPF30 along with average watering schedule. I'd like to see how that compares/matches to what I have been doing on my calendar/schedule. I may be interested in changing product lines.

TIA


----------



## jeffcatton

Lem855 said:


> @jeffcatton would you be willing to share what you use with a products list and schedule of what you use when for your SPF30 along with average watering schedule. I'd like to see how that compares/matches to what I have been doing on my calendar/schedule. I may be interested in changing product lines.
> 
> TIA


Hi @Lem855, sure can share, others have asked but I will give more details below. Hope it helps you and everyone. Also, let me know

*Watering Schedule - during this heat (115% of the below - Rainbird ESP-ME3 adjustment as needed for season)*
(BTW - my water pressure is really good 90 - 102 psi so it really dumps water - adjust as needed)
(water usage - 1.1 CCF daily in summer, fall/spring .4 CCF daily - 3700 sqft home also)
#1 - All flower Pots / garden - 4am daily 8 mins (pot sprayers)
#2 - Front Yard - 5 min daily (rotary) - no runoff
#3 - Front by Road 10 mins daily (put in 4'x20' popups attached to drip line  ) - no runoff
#4 - Sides of house - 10 min daily (pop)
#5 - Back Yard at House - 25 min (rotary - Tue/Thur/Sat)
#6 - Back Yard at far Fence line pointed inward - 26 min (rotary - Tue/Thur/Sat)

*Chemicals Used*
#1
** USE WITH DIRECTION TO A "T" ***
BioAdvanced 704100B Bermuda Grass Weed Killer Bermudagrass Control for Lawns, 32 oz, Ready-To-Spray
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001D25Y0K?ps

#2
Also use TRICLOPYR ESTER to help control any existing Bermuda
https://www.amazon.com/Hi-Yield-352...&sprefix=triclopyr+ester,lawngarden,78&sr=1-3

#3
Here is a post that I did on DOC's mixed with the above TRICLOPYR ESTER
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=393665#p393665

#4
Using the Liquid Iron - using hose sprayer (4oz solution + fill hose sprayer with water)
https://www.amazon.com/Southern-Ag-...lated+liquid+iron,+16+oz,lawngarden,82&sr=1-3

#5
(mostly CLAY SOIL here) Simple Lawn Solutions - Liquid soil Loosener - as directed

#6
Hydretain - root zone moisture Manager
https://www.amazon.com/Hydretain-HE...arden&sprefix=hydretain,lawngarden,148&sr=1-4

*Fertilizers*
- FEB, JULY, OCT - normal weed & feed
- OCT / FEB - add in Urea 46-0-0


----------



## traderntexas

To add to what Jeff has here... it's important that you have a good idea of how much water you're putting out. Put some cans around your yard and run your irrigation for a set time, then measure the water. Notice how he said " no run off ". This is ideal so as not to waste too much. If you notice run off, you'll want to adjust the run times accordingly.


----------



## jeffcatton

jeffcatton said:


> Lem855 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jeffcatton would you be willing to share what you use with a products list and schedule of what you use when for your SPF30 along with average watering schedule. I'd like to see how that compares/matches to what I have been doing on my calendar/schedule. I may be interested in changing product lines.
> 
> TIA
> 
> 
> 
> Hi @Lem855, sure can share, others have asked but I will give more details below. Hope it helps you and everyone. Also, let me know
> 
> *Watering Schedule - during this heat (115% of the below - Rainbird ESP-ME3 adjustment as needed for season)*
> (BTW - my water pressure is really good 90 - 102 psi so it really dumps water - adjust as needed)
> (water usage - 1.1 CCF daily in summer, fall/spring .4 CCF daily - 3700 sqft home also)
> #1 - All flower Pots / garden - 4am daily 8 mins (pot sprayers)
> #2 - Front Yard - 5 min daily (rotary) - no runoff
> #3 - Front by Road 10 mins daily (put in 4'x20' popups attached to drip line  ) - no runoff
> #4 - Sides of house - 10 min daily (pop)
> #5 - Back Yard at House - 25 min (rotary - Tue/Thur/Sat)
> #6 - Back Yard at far Fence line pointed inward - 26 min (rotary - Tue/Thur/Sat)
> 
> *Chemicals Used*
> #1
> ** USE WITH DIRECTION TO A "T" ***
> BioAdvanced 704100B Bermuda Grass Weed Killer Bermudagrass Control for Lawns, 32 oz, Ready-To-Spray
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001D25Y0K?ps
> 
> #2
> Also use TRICLOPYR ESTER to help control any existing Bermuda
> https://www.amazon.com/Hi-Yield-352...&sprefix=triclopyr+ester,lawngarden,78&sr=1-3
> 
> #3
> Here is a post that I did on DOC's mixed with the above TRICLOPYR ESTER
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=393665#p393665
> 
> #4
> Using the Liquid Iron - using hose sprayer (4oz solution + fill hose sprayer with water)
> Sorry I did not mention I changed to -> PENDELTON TURF SUPPLY 15-0-0-6 Fe (pic below). They are similar, just added *Nitrogen* and a tad (20%) more IRON per application.
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> *** OLD KIND of IRON used
> https://www.amazon.com/Southern-Ag-...lated+liquid+iron,+16+oz,lawngarden,82&sr=1-3
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> 
> #5
> (mostly CLAY SOIL here) Simple Lawn Solutions - Liquid soil Loosener - as directed
> 
> #6
> Hydretain - root zone moisture Manager
> https://www.amazon.com/Hydretain-HE...arden&sprefix=hydretain,lawngarden,148&sr=1-4
> 
> *Fertilizers*
> - FEB, JULY, OCT - normal weed & feed
> - OCT / FEB - add in Urea 46-0-0
Click to expand...


----------



## Lem855

Great stuff Jeff, question does your sprinkler controller adjust duration per each time set? Or are you running hoses 3x per week and daily 5 min daily on sprinklers?


----------



## jeffcatton

Lem855 said:


> Great stuff Jeff, question does your sprinkler controller adjust duration per each time set? Or are you running hoses 3x per week and daily 5 min daily on sprinklers?


@Lem855 sorry I miss read your ask here. The controller allows for each zone to have xx mins you set each within a specified program schedule. Example ...

Zone 1 - Garden + Flower pots + window planters
Zone 2 - Front Yard
Zone 3 - Front Road
Zone 4 - Back of house
Zone 5 - Back of Fence towards house + Center Yard

Program *1* - 100% - *On Tues / Thurs*
Zone 2 - 8 mins
Zone 3 - 20 mins

Program *2* - 125% - *On Everyday*
Zone 1 - 5 mins

Program *3* - 150% - *On Tues / Thurs / Sat*
Zone 4 - 25 mins
Zone 5 - 35 mins

Hope that helps.


----------



## citizensauto

My long journey & experiment with SPF-30 is coming to a close; this will be my last summer with SPF.  I will do an entire scalp, kill off, and seed Bermuda.
It's been both a painful and joyous journey, but the upkeep needed to keep it green during these hot summers isn't worth it for me to enjoy green grass during winter. I will overseed with rye and do the kill-off like everyone else.


----------



## cokenner

citizensauto said:


> My long journey & experiment with SPF-30 is coming to a close; this will be my last summer with SPF.  I will do an entire scalp, kill off, and seed Bermuda.
> It's been both a painful and joyous journey, but the upkeep needed to keep it green during these hot summers isn't worth it for me to enjoy green grass during winter. I will overseed with rye and do the kill-off like everyone else.


Hey man, I'm of the same mind. This is first year for me and its holding up, but damn I have to do a lot of watering and babying. Can get the same cool season fix with Rye and pay less in water in the summer. I kinda want to keep it for one full growing season and then I'll decide if I want to kill-off and seed bermuda in the Spring. It'd be a great opportunity to regrade too.

I've sodded my backyard, but I don't want to go through that again. Plus, seeding is fun! What seed did you have in mind? I've looked at a few and I'm either going with Arden15 or Yukon.


----------



## Lem855

cokenner said:


> citizensauto said:
> 
> 
> 
> My long journey & experiment with SPF-30 is coming to a close; this will be my last summer with SPF.  I will do an entire scalp, kill off, and seed Bermuda.
> It's been both a painful and joyous journey, but the upkeep needed to keep it green during these hot summers isn't worth it for me to enjoy green grass during winter. I will overseed with rye and do the kill-off like everyone else.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey man, I'm of the same mind. This is first year for me and its holding up, but damn I have to do a lot of watering and babying. Can get the same cool season fix with Rye and pay less in water in the summer. I kinda want to keep it for one full growing season and then I'll decide if I want to kill-off and seed bermuda in the Spring. It'd be a great opportunity to regrade too.
> 
> I've sodded my backyard, but I don't want to go through that again. Plus, seeding is fun! What seed did you have in mind? I've looked at a few and I'm either going with Arden15 or Yukon.
Click to expand...

I totally understand the frustration as my turf is cooking away yet some spots that are more shaded still look great. 
I've already made up my mind and have ordered outsiderpride combat extreme southern seed which has tttf as well as SPF30 blended and I think more heat tolerant than just SPF30 alone. I don't even want to look at my water bill just try to keep it going. I'm excited about the fall reseed but this heat is just crazy in the DFW Texas area. Hang in there cooler temps are coming we hope!


----------



## citizensauto

cokenner said:


> citizensauto said:
> 
> 
> 
> My long journey & experiment with SPF-30 is coming to a close; this will be my last summer with SPF.  I will do an entire scalp, kill off, and seed Bermuda.
> It's been both a painful and joyous journey, but the upkeep needed to keep it green during these hot summers isn't worth it for me to enjoy green grass during winter. I will overseed with rye and do the kill-off like everyone else.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey man, I'm of the same mind. This is first year for me and its holding up, but damn I have to do a lot of watering and babying. Can get the same cool season fix with Rye and pay less in water in the summer. I kinda want to keep it for one full growing season and then I'll decide if I want to kill-off and seed bermuda in the Spring. It'd be a great opportunity to regrade too.
> 
> I've sodded my backyard, but I don't want to go through that again. Plus, seeding is fun! What seed did you have in mind? I've looked at a few and I'm either going with Arden15 or Yukon.
Click to expand...

I'm going Arden15 in the front. The back already has Yukon (because it's not shaded and SPF completely choked) so i want to try a different variety for comparison.


----------



## cokenner

citizensauto said:


> cokenner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> citizensauto said:
> 
> 
> 
> My long journey & experiment with SPF-30 is coming to a close; this will be my last summer with SPF.  I will do an entire scalp, kill off, and seed Bermuda.
> It's been both a painful and joyous journey, but the upkeep needed to keep it green during these hot summers isn't worth it for me to enjoy green grass during winter. I will overseed with rye and do the kill-off like everyone else.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey man, I'm of the same mind. This is first year for me and its holding up, but damn I have to do a lot of watering and babying. Can get the same cool season fix with Rye and pay less in water in the summer. I kinda want to keep it for one full growing season and then I'll decide if I want to kill-off and seed bermuda in the Spring. It'd be a great opportunity to regrade too.
> 
> I've sodded my backyard, but I don't want to go through that again. Plus, seeding is fun! What seed did you have in mind? I've looked at a few and I'm either going with Arden15 or Yukon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm going Arden15 in the front. The back already has Yukon (because it's not shaded and SPF completely choked) so i want to try a different variety for comparison.
Click to expand...

Nice. Good luck to you!


----------



## Ajoosten

I have two 25lb bags of SPF 30 for sale preferably to someone in DFW. Purchased a few months ago. I think I am going to hold off on my Reno. Text me if you are interested 817-901-9867


----------



## ceriano

How does SPF-30 compare with midnight blue? I'm looking to mix bluegrass with my fescue blend this fall. Which would be a better choice, SPF 30 or midnight blue?


----------



## bassmanaustin

I feel your pain. I am about to bite the bullet and I didn't just plant seeds, I rented a 26ft moving truck and brought TTTF sod back from Kansas City and Enid OK 3 separate times. Wasn't cheap and my TTTF went from beautiful to sh*t in just a couple months. Last summer it held up fine but not this blazing summer.

Going to go with a mix of Palisades Zoysia, SPF 30 and my existing TTTF for next year to see how things go.


----------



## TheThirstyTurtle

My KBG lawn in NJ is mostly toast this summer, even with irrigation going. I'm thinking to overseed or maybe use this as an opportunity to do a full renovation. Would SPF30 be good to use in NJ? I figure since it's a bluegrass hybrid it should work well, but everything I've read so far has been from users in the south, so I'm wondering if SPF30 somehow doesn't do well in the cold NJ winters.


----------



## jeffcatton

TheThirstyTurtle said:


> My KBG lawn in NJ is mostly toast this summer, even with irrigation going. I'm thinking to overseed or maybe use this as an opportunity to do a full renovation. Would SPF30 be good to use in NJ? I figure since it's a bluegrass hybrid it should work well, but everything I've read so far has been from users in the south, so I'm wondering if SPF30 somehow doesn't do well in the cold NJ winters.


@TheThirstyTurtle here is a KBG mixed seed from OutsidePride for colder area (freezing) which may be of consideration -> https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass-seed/mixtures-different-species/, good luck and keep us updated on your efforts.


----------



## Glen_Cove_5511

Thinking about overseeding my TTTF/KBG lawn this fall with SPF30. Has anyone done this? Will the KBG even germinate with the TTTF already established? Thanks


----------



## TheThirstyTurtle

jeffcatton said:


> TheThirstyTurtle said:
> 
> 
> 
> My KBG lawn in NJ is mostly toast this summer, even with irrigation going. I'm thinking to overseed or maybe use this as an opportunity to do a full renovation. Would SPF30 be good to use in NJ? I figure since it's a bluegrass hybrid it should work well, but everything I've read so far has been from users in the south, so I'm wondering if SPF30 somehow doesn't do well in the cold NJ winters.
> 
> 
> 
> @TheThirstyTurtle here is a KBG mixed seed from OutsidePride for colder area (freezing) which may be of consideration -> https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/grass-seed/mixtures-different-species/, good luck and keep us updated on your efforts.
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks for this info, I looked at this and it looks like a terrific blend! This is why I like this forum so much.


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## Lem855

Has anyone used the outsiderpride combat extreme southern seed in the Texas region?


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## Lem855

Call me crazy 🤪 but the time is now. Unfortunately my reno journey has begun way earlier than I wanted or expected. Do to work schedule /constraints I have to start my change over of a different grass type now. 
I need to first start with leveling of the entire yard especially in the areas where I have French drains. Probably a couple of yard of new soil/ peatmoss mix. 
To change out the the grass from kbg to fescue/ kbg I needed to thin out some of the grass to blend it better. Well mother nature helped with that and burned out 80% of it with the 100+ months of extreme heat. Maybe this was my sign! :nod: 
The shaded areas seem to endure a bit better but still thin and patchy. So I just finished detaching the entire yard to clean up the dead stuff and pulled a ton of bags of debris. Next week it's leveling and filling deep ruts and grading the slope and possibly raising the soil 1-2 inches in certain areas. Can't wait for possibly September or even Oct for the weather to work out in DFW for seeding. 
Has anyone also started the reno process or am I the only crazy one? 
Here are some pics of why I need to try again.


----------



## traderntexas

Lem855 said:


> Call me crazy 🤪 but the time is now. Unfortunately my reno journey has begun way earlier than I wanted or expected. Do to work schedule /constraints I have to start my change over of a different grass type now.
> I need to first start with leveling of the entire yard especially in the areas where I have French drains. Probably a couple of yard of new soil/ peatmoss mix.
> To change out the the grass from kbg to fescue/ kbg I needed to thin out some of the grass to blend it better. Well mother nature helped with that and burned out 80% of it with the 100+ months of extreme heat. Maybe this was my sign! :nod:
> The shaded areas seem to endure a bit better but still thin and patchy. So I just finished detaching the entire yard to clean up the dead stuff and pulled a ton of bags of debris. Next week it's leveling and filling deep ruts and grading the slope and possibly raising the soil 1-2 inches in certain areas. Can't wait for possibly September or even Oct for the weather to work out in DFW for seeding.
> Has anyone also started the reno process or am I the only crazy one?
> Here are some pics of why I need to try again.
> 
> Nothing wrong with getting ahead in the game.


----------



## rossOwen

Lem855 said:


> Call me crazy 🤪 but the time is now. Unfortunately my reno journey has begun way earlier than I wanted or expected. Do to work schedule /constraints I have to start my change over of a different grass type now.
> I need to first start with leveling of the entire yard especially in the areas where I have French drains. Probably a couple of yard of new soil/ peatmoss mix.
> To change out the the grass from kbg to fescue/ kbg I needed to thin out some of the grass to blend it better. Well mother nature helped with that and burned out 80% of it with the 100+ months of extreme heat. Maybe this was my sign! :nod:
> The shaded areas seem to endure a bit better but still thin and patchy. So I just finished detaching the entire yard to clean up the dead stuff and pulled a ton of bags of debris. Next week it's leveling and filling deep ruts and grading the slope and possibly raising the soil 1-2 inches in certain areas. Can't wait for possibly September or even Oct for the weather to work out in DFW for seeding.
> Has anyone also started the reno process or am I the only crazy one?
> Here are some pics of why I need to try again.


You should have let it rest and wait for rain and cooler temps. This year, mine looked much like yours, but I left the grass tall and let it go to a golden yellow color (fully dormant) in July. Right before these rains, I mowed it shorter and blew it out with the leaf blower. Dropped a bunch of organic fert and waited for rain. With these downpours, the spf-30 is popping new shoots, and when it gets cooler the rhizomes will start to make shoots as well. Unless you tilled it all up, though, your roots are going to push new growth. After I moved from my last house, the yard got totally scalped, driven on, had construction, etc. and wasn't cared for in any way. Still came back in Fall just fine. Could have used a light overseed, but had about 80-90% coverage.

I wouldn't think of sacrificing last years gains by ripping up the grass that survived - we essentially just selected for the strongest, most heat tolerant individual plants, and now they are going to have all Fall and Winter to become freaks of nature and send their roots even deeper. Starting from seed is a much tougher battle, because you will still have immature grass next June getting beat up by the heat. These are perennial species, meant to establish over multiple years. If you treat them like an annual, you will only get annual results.

P.S. The guy that keeps it double dark green and thick all Summer has you guys illusioned. What he's doing is not easy or cheap. But, one thing he has done that's easy, is simply leave it in year after year. Don't rip it up.


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## Lem855

@rossOwen you surely have a great point. Being patient for the rains surly would have been my plan if i wasnt set on doing the leveling and reworking the grade of the yard this fall. After adding soil, compost, sand mix to the yard and leveling readjusting my drains heights, the yard held up much better. I was even shocked with the 9 inches of rain I recieved in 2 days, the yard didn't flood. With all this work I probably was able to save about 20-30% of the SPF30 and it's doing great after the rain the dead has risen. Before the sumer I decided I'm changing over to a slightly more heat tolerant blend of fescue, Anihaltor and Roman types with SPF30 my existing grass will workout just fine and should blend well.

For our SPF30 followers, If you're YouTube follower of "how to with doc" he's moving from is home which has bermuda grass to a farm house which he seeded with SPF30 KBG and fescue mix just a few weeks ago. I'll surely be intrested in how he plans to work this new grass in his videos especially as he lives in the transition zone. 
Now im just counting down the days till seeding time. Going to do a pre germinating water soaking then hydrogen peroxide soak on the final day and then milo n seed "throw er down". This should get this going quicker till tha fall temps drop for good. I'm hopeing this is the end.


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## texas-ag-86

.

Had a similar experience with sections just going completely brown here in Central Texas.

Two factors - first, a legit issue with grub worms. I didn't get the GrubX down early enough in the season to kill them off and by Texas A&M standards, we were facing what they consider to be an infestation. Easy to spot with round patches of dead grass that lifts up like a cheap toupee in a light breeze.

Second, my working theory is not all the seed in the bag is actually hybrid, but *** - it burns out fast and makes a comeback in the cooler season. No amount of watering can keep it alive in the heat. That would account for the large swaths of dead area. The grass that stays on year round is the hybrid.

Patience isn't one of my virtues. It's been frustrating to say the least.

I had great results with composted top dressing last fall. So, again, rolling out 3 yards of composted top dressing and seeding the rough areas this week; building up the soil versus tilling it is a better option for us. What's underneath is lot's of limestone and coral.

The recent rains and relatively cooler temps have made quite a difference here. New shoot growth is popping up in areas that were not affected by grub damage.

I second the posts about being patient. If this stuff can grow in CenTex, you'll be in good shape in DFW.



Lem855 said:


> Call me crazy 🤪 but the time is now. Unfortunately my reno journey has begun way earlier than I wanted or expected. Do to work schedule /constraints I have to start my change over of a different grass type now.
> I need to first start with leveling of the entire yard especially in the areas where I have French drains. Probably a couple of yard of new soil/ peatmoss mix.
> To change out the the grass from kbg to fescue/ kbg I needed to thin out some of the grass to blend it better. Well mother nature helped with that and burned out 80% of it with the 100+ months of extreme heat. Maybe this was my sign! :nod:
> The shaded areas seem to endure a bit better but still thin and patchy. So I just finished detaching the entire yard to clean up the dead stuff and pulled a ton of bags of debris. Next week it's leveling and filling deep ruts and grading the slope and possibly raising the soil 1-2 inches in certain areas. Can't wait for possibly September or even Oct for the weather to work out in DFW for seeding.
> Has anyone also started the reno process or am I the only crazy one?
> Here are some pics of why I need to try again.


----------



## Laz

I am about to seed SPF 30 in upstate South Carolina
I have 30 lbs for around 6000sq ft and another 10 lbs of the outside pride combat extreme to mix in 10% spf and 2 types of TTF for south transition zone
I killed about 20% of problem areas with Gly
I have scalped and de-thatched
I spread 1/2 inch topsoil over the whole yard

My plan
spread scotts starter fertilizer
spread seed
spray lightly with Tenacity
Water 2X a day for 5-10 at 11am and 3pm. Relying on cool mornings to push moisture down in mornings
Hit with Hi-Yield tricloper in may for the Bermuda

Does that sound about right? Any thing else? I know I probably should have killed everything with Gly.
PS. I do have forecast for some 90 degree temps for next three days but the seed should not have germinated by then and it is only for about three days until temps are back in 60-80 degree window


----------



## texas-ag-86

@Laz 
Can you drop Tenacity and seed at the same time? Never used it. The herbicides I have used state to allow 2-3 weeks after application before seeding. Maybe double check the label.

My irrigation system allows 3 daily settings. I ran each zone for 5-7 minutes 3x a day with good results. If you're in a higher humidity area, it might not be needed. We run about 30% in the fall.

After two other attempts to seed using Outside Pride's recommended seed rate, I ended up dropping 5lbs/1000 to get the results I wanted.

Hope that helps.


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## Laz

Everything I read said I could use Tenacity at seeding (pre germ) to eliminate any new weed seed found in the seed or topsoil. I am unsure if I apply the seed first or tenacity. I think I will spray with tenacity then put down seed then water.
I will kick up the Scotts spreader settings it says to use 4.5 I will go up to 7 or 8 for the SPF and 10 for the TTF.
Unfortunately I only can water two times automatically that is why I am depending on the cool mornings to push some moisture down in the morning. I will try to sneak an extra watering in here and there for the first 2 weeks.
Thank you for your input. 
My neighbors all use Top Choice TTF and have good luck with it. I think I will lightly throw down about 20 lbs of it to help during the Hot months as it appears the SPF struggled in the high heat according to some of the post above.


----------



## texas-ag-86

I did lookup the details on Tenacity after the post. Sounds pretty magical. And it doesn't appear to be picky about when it goes down.

From what you've outlined, short of a hurricane blowing up from the gulf and washing out the topsoil, you should have a good start on a great lawn.


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## Lem855

If you plan on using a starter fert sotts has a triple action starter fert with mesotrione (tenacity) included. I used this last time with great results. It should be readily available in your area at home depot stores. Good luck, I'm putting down the same seed. SPF30/ combat extreme southern blend.


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## Adamg77

Well I threw down about 2lbs per thousand on 09/11 with peat moss loosely spread on top (should have evenly covered for better germination) when temps were relatively cool. I'm located north of Dallas near Prosper. Temps were in the 70's and 80's. I soaked the seeds for 2 days in pantyhose changing the water ever 12 hours (never had a foul smell like others have reported) then covered in about 6 pounds of milorganite mixed it and then spread it via a hand spreader. Also put out scotts starter fert. I am covering approximately 1600 sq feet. Went away for five days to Galveston and set it to run five times a day. The area that I am trying to cover has two areas. One on the west side that is covered by two large Chinese Pistache that shade in the afternoon and my house which shades the morning sun. It gets approximately 4 hours of solid direct sun; this is also the strip between my sidewalk and the street. The other area is in full sunlight as it is south facing with little shade from another Chinese Pistashe.

Yard looked great two years ago but began seeing Bermuda Mites two falls ago. Tried to eradicate them this year to no avail. Bermuda never looked great in the shady area just alive. Doing this all before I seed our backyard which is in heavy shade and receives about 2-4 hours of decent dappled shade. So far I am very impressed at this seed. I have never put out seed and this variety seems to have some neglect tolerance already. I experimented with two solo cups one of which had pre-germinated seeds for 48 hours the other did not. Both received equal conditions and saw faster germination with the pre-sprouted seeds.
 last year

2020 looking good

 SPF-30 sprigs doing nicely being baked at 94 degrees

I just pulled apart decaying raised beds in the back graded the soil and will be putting down this seed in the backyard shortly. I will post updates as they come up. Lessons I have learned already is that having peat moss down with good coverage really helps. I have since added another bag(3 total) and it has already made an impact in just a day. Looks like I'll be purchasing a peat moss roller shortly!


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## traderntexas

Adamg77 said:


> Well I threw down about 2lbs per thousand on 09/11 with peat moss loosely spread on top (should have evenly covered for better germination) when temps were relatively cool. I'm located north of Dallas near Prosper. Temps were in the 70's and 80's. I soaked the seeds for 2 days in pantyhose changing the water ever 12 hours (never had a foul smell like others have reported) then covered in about 6 pounds of milorganite mixed it and then spread it via a hand spreader. Also put out scotts starter fert. I am covering approximately 1600 sq feet. Went away for five days to Galveston and set it to run five times a day. The area that I am trying to cover has two areas. One on the west side that is covered by two large Chinese Pistache that shade in the afternoon and my house which shades the morning sun. It gets approximately 4 hours of solid direct sun; this is also the strip between my sidewalk and the street. The other area is in full sunlight as it is south facing with little shade from another Chinese Pistashe.
> 
> Yard looked great two years ago but began seeing Bermuda Mites two falls ago. Tried to eradicate them this year to no avail. Bermuda never looked great in the shady area just alive. Doing this all before I seed our backyard which is in heavy shade and receives about 2-4 hours of decent dappled shade. So far I am very impressed at this seed. I have never put out seed and this variety seems to have some neglect tolerance already. I experimented with two solo cups one of which had pre-germinated seeds for 48 hours the other did not. Both received equal conditions and saw faster germination with the pre-sprouted seeds.
> last year
> 
> 2020 looking good
> 
> SPF-30 sprigs doing nicely being baked at 94 degrees
> 
> I just pulled apart decaying raised beds in the back graded the soil and will be putting down this seed in the backyard shortly. I will post updates as they come up. Lessons I have learned already is that having peat moss down with good coverage really helps. I have since added another bag(3 total) and it has already made an impact in just a day. Looks like I'll be purchasing a peat moss roller shortly!


How much faster was the germination with the presoaked?


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## Adamg77

@traderntexas by about four days. I will be comparing the 2 days pre germinating vs 6 days with the next seeding which will be done on Saturday. I'll also be renting a peat moss roller as that has made a significant impact on the germination.


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## Lem855

@Adamg77 Question from the 2 days of soaking and the seed down, how many days did it take till you observed baby seedlings? 
I'm using a mixed version of SPF30 and fescue and am trying to figure out a rough timeline on the soaking time 2-3-4 days as the fescue germinates a fraction sooner. Very nice looking lawn 👌


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## cokenner

Lem855 said:


> @Adamg77 Question from the 2 days of soaking and the seed down, how many days did it take till you observed baby seedlings?
> I'm using a mixed version of SPF30 and fescue and am trying to figure out a rough timeline on the soaking time 2-3-4 days as the fescue germinates a fraction sooner. Very nice looking lawn 👌


Not OP, but I would say there's no perfect amount of days. I would shoot for 3-4 days as that's in the middle for KBG and right near the max for TTTF from what I've read.

I'm currently pre germinating 3lbs of SPF30 for an overseed of last years renovation. Grub damage got me hard this year as I didn't put down a preventative. I'm going for 5.5 days and will be seeding this Friday. I'm located in N Texas, Wichita Falls.


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## Adamg77

@Lem855 as @cokenner stated above I don't know if there is a perfect amount. I have never done this and am just experimenting so I can have a good reference of if it's worth it. From what I have read KBG takes a while to germinate so my theory is that this will as well.

To answer your question in the soaked seeds for 2 days I saw shoots at four days after spreading.


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## Lem855

Adamg77 said:


> @Lem855 as @cokenner stated above I don't know if there is a perfect amount. I have never done this and am just experimenting so I can have a good reference of if it's worth it. From what I have read KBG takes a while to germinate so my theory is that this will as well.
> 
> To answer your question in the soaked seeds for 2 days I saw shoots at four days after spreading.


Thanks for your response 👍 I'll be soaking this Friday with a hopeful throw down on either Monday or Tuesday as the weather is looking good for seeding in Arlington.


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## nATLzoysiaguy

After reading through a lot of this thread I decided to give SPF-30 a try. My backyard's Bermuda has been struggling the last couple years due to a lack of sunlight and invasion of weeds (the later was my fault due to a crazy work schedule). Yesterday, I put down 8lbs of Outerside Pride seed over 2,500 sq ft (2lbs still I'm reserve) with Scott's starter fertilizer, after scalping and scarifying the Bermuda. I've got a four zone B-Hyve Bluetooth sprinkler system setup I hope will keep everything going while I'm at work. There isn't much rainfall forecasted for the next couple weeks 🤞

Here are a few pictures of the prep work, and ground after seeding and putting down straw. I really didn't want to use straw, but I was really concerned about the seed drying out. Excited to see what happens 😁

I left the Bermuda grass alive, because it's not my intention to kill it out. I'll see how the SPF does, and likely let the two grasses battle it out. The lone strip of green grass is Zoysia. I had some left over after sodding the front and intended to complete the back, but it's on hold right now due to budget.


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## Lem855

Finally after Good weather the new seed is down, outsiderspride combat extreme southern zone with SPF30 and fescue. 
I pregerminated the seed for 2-1/2 days and used scotts starter fertilizer with mesotrione (tenacity). 
After results from my soil test came back I was a bit high in ph, so I used peat most and worked it into the soil prior to seeding to slowly lower the ph over time. I didn't want to use adverse quick substances to lower it as I have 3 dogs. 
Let's hope for some quick sprouts in a few days and some thicker turf in the future.


----------



## mrw045

Lem855 said:


> Finally after Good weather the new seed is down, outsiderspride combat extreme southern zone with SPF30 and fescue.
> I pregerminated the seed for 2-1/2 days and used scotts starter fertilizer with mesotrione (tenacity).
> After results from my soil test came back I was a bit high in ph, so I used peat most and worked it into the soil prior to seeding to slowly lower the ph over time. I didn't want to use adverse quick substances to lower it as I have 3 dogs.
> Let's hope for some quick sprouts in a few days and some thicker turf in the future.


How long did you let the seed dry out after soaking, before spreading?

last time i pregerminated it was still too wet, even after mixing with Scotts, to use a drop spreader so I had to toss it by hand.


----------



## Lem855

I


mrw045 said:


> How long did you let the seed dry out after soaking, before spreading?
> 
> last time i pregerminated it was still too wet, even after mixing with Scotts, to use a drop spreader so I had to toss it by hand.


I used a 5 gallon paint paint straner bag for germination so when I removed the bag from the bucket I just placed it on the driveway to drain, I'd say no more than 5 minutes until I mixed it with 1 bag of Milorganite by hand. The seed weight was 9 pounds. It mixed up a bit moist but spread very easily in my scotts spreader.


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## Adamg77

The areas that I evenly spread out the peat moss are looking decent after 2 weeks. No additional fertilizer or inputs given aside from the initial starter fert and the added milorganite at spreading. After cutting the trial plot that I have growing in a red solo cup and seeing the increased lateral growth I will begin cutting at a low height. 

I mentioned I am doing the backyard after seeing the impressive growth habit and shade tolerance of this grass. I performed the same steps as the front yard but this time did 6 applications of Glyphosate prior to seeding. I also soaked the seeds for 8 days changing the water daily. I never saw the seeds "chit" as mentioned in this article here. I do believe this will reduce the overall time it takes to begin seeing tissue growth. I will update later. 








West side update 17 days after spreading. You can really see the effect of the inconsistent peat moss application.








West side strip update 17 days after spreading








Test plot cut once germinated 09/06

I used a peat moss roller for the backyard and went over areas with poor germination in the front yard as well. The cooler temps have really helped with the germination in the front yard that initially had poor peat moss coverage.








Doing this portion which is on a terrible slope and sees lots of shade to the north. The north side of my fence also will get some seed to see how well it mixes with the bermuda.


----------



## Adamg77

What herbicides are people using? It seems like most are incompatible with KBG lol. I have spurge popping up and the only thing I can find to control it without knocking back the SPF-30 is MSM. Thanks y’all


----------



## bill101

Adamg77 said:


> What herbicides are people using? It seems like most are incompatible with KBG lol. I have spurge popping up and the only thing I can find to control it without knocking back the SPF-30 is MSM. Thanks y’all


Spurge Power® - Monterey Lawn & Garden is safe for bluegrass.


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## Lem855

Question for the group. 
When should I apply sprayed urea in small dosages to newly germinated seed? 
My seeding process had 20 lbs. Milorganite as my carrier for the seed and 1 small Scotts starter fertilizer with mesotrione/ (tenacity). 
Should I even forget about using urea? I'm kind of puzzled if it's needed at all. 
I've read that because of the short growing season people push it till closer to first frost. But with me living in Texas/DFW not sure if that will be a later window than most who do this process. I'm assuming that the urea is used for the deeper root growth stimulation before dormancy. 
Thought are welcomed.


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## cokenner

I think I started spraying in Spring, granted this year I plan to spray .25#N every 2 weeks once temps drop and it starts to fill in. I overseeded this year.


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## cokenner

Signs of germination @ 4 days in my more bare areas. Not seeing much where I did some leveling with a topsoil/sand mixture.
Bleaching of emerged Nutgrass from tenacity put down at seed down, feels good.


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## franktiberi

cokenner said:


> View attachment 555
> 
> View attachment 556
> 
> View attachment 557
> 
> Signs of germination @ 4 days in my more bare areas. Not seeing much where I did some leveling with a topsoil/sand mixture.
> Bleaching of emerged Nutgrass from tenacity put down at seed down, feels good.


Wow, did you pre-germinate?


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## nATLzoysiaguy

Adamg77 said:


> What herbicides are people using? It seems like most are incompatible with KBG lol. I have spurge popping up and the only thing I can find to control it without knocking back the SPF-30 is MSM. Thanks y’all


Trimec 992 is labeled for Spurge and safe on KBG.


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## Lem855

Finaly day 7 from seed down not bad almost 95% germination


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## cokenner

franktiberi said:


> Wow, did you pre-germinate?


I did. Started the soak in the 9/18. Did fully submerged changing water every 12 hrs (not perfect), let drain in 9/25 for half a day (probably too long), and mixed the 3lbs of seed with 15lbs of milorganite to proadcast

Honestly, I had germination @ 6 days last fall, but I don’t think it was as widespread. Not that big of a difference from regular seeding.

If I do pregerm again, I’ll do the soak and drain method.


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## SisyphusMiner

The milorganite is to meter the seed through your spreader better?


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## Humbert810

SisyphusMiner said:


> The milorganite is to meter the seed through your spreader better?


It is used more as a carrier and a drying agent as the seed is still fairly wet and clumpy after the pregermination process.


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## IlliniFaninTX

Is it better to use milogoranite as the drying agent or something like Carbon Pro-G?


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## Lem855

There are other options as well other than Milorganite, humichar as a carrier, low npk dosages of balanced fertilizer as well. I used Milorganite because it was cheap. 
For those that are pre-germinating seed you can also add hydrogen peroxide on the final day to oxygenate the seed and remove the seed coating for better percentage of success on seeding. Lots of article on this on alot of seed types. I'll be doing this from now on for sure.


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## texas-ag-86

Lem855 said:


> you can also add hydrogen peroxide on the final day to oxygenate the seed


That sounds very interesting. What article(s) did you find? I'm not getting any search hits for grass seed, just gardening tips.


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## franktiberi

I seeded 500 sq. ft. in my back yard on Friday and I noticed a few sprouts this morning. Just 5 days after seeding. I'm surprised because I didn't pre-germinate; I was not expecting sprouts for a another week. I didn't even see sprouts in my Titan RX TTTF plot this quickly.


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## Lem855

texas-ag-86 said:


> That sounds very interesting. What article(s) did you find? I'm not getting any search hits for grass seed, just gardening tips.



Here is link to the process I used.





__





pre germination grass seed with hydrogen peroxide - Google Search






www.google.com





Also some extra videos on the subject 




__





pre germination grass seed with hydrogen peroxide - Google Search






www.google.com


----------



## franktiberi

franktiberi said:


> I seeded 500 sq. ft. in my back yard on Friday and I noticed a few sprouts this morning. Just 5 days after seeding. I'm surprised because I didn't pre-germinate; I was not expecting sprouts for a another week. I didn't even see sprouts in my Titan RX TTTF plot this quickly.


I don't think the sprouts are KBG. I think they are from some ARG seeds I put down last fall that never germinated. These sprouts are growing faster than the sprouts in Titan RX plot.


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## Laz

How do you guys put down your Urea. I bought some Sunshine harvest liguid 23-0-0 Sunshine Harvest Liquid Urea Fertilizer ULF-1G - The Home Depot. I plan on putting in an Ortho dial spayer but have know idea what setting to use. Trying to get .2lb N for a newly germinated overseed/quick reno


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## cokenner

I have a battery backpack sprayer. The Dial-N-Spray is more for soil applications like humic/liquid aeration/Hydratain.


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## Laz

Update - Hopefully I will add pictures as soon as I find a cord
initial seeding 9/17 12 lbs spf 10lbs combat extreme 5lbs top choice TTTF ( Budget rainbird irrigation system 4 zones 1 in front timer hooked to faucet - 3 covering sides and back hooked to back faucet). I focused on front and side front as I knew I was going out of town in a week. I would only be able to use 1 zone on back faucet while I was out of town. watered all zones 2X 10am & 2pm 9/17 -9/25 then only front 2X and side 1X (basic auto timer limitations) Added 5 lbs TTTF & 2 lbs SPF on zones I knew I could auto water while away on 9/20
9/29 Reurned home (very patchy growth) Tropical storm IAN arriving today so I put down 5 lbs TTTF & 2 lbs SPF on patchy areas.
**Observation where sprinklers overlapped I was getting better growth so I deducted I was not watering enough. IAN misted for 6-8 hours perfect watering.
9/30 tilled patchy areas
another **observation - Previously I had sprayed Gly on about 20% of my yard to kill the really bad spots of weeds/bermuda these areas had little germination but it could also have to do with bad sprinkler coverage probably the reason for original weed and bermuda issues.
I have hoses not pipes buried for my irrigation system. I dug up/yanked 3 lines moved for better coverage and replaced some heads from rotary to sprinkler to extend range. I had 1 that sprayed down a slope (mistake). I moved it to spray uphill (huge difference do not water downhill if you can avoid it).
I then tilled all patchy spots and raked (Gly areas and low water areas). I originally only put down 1/2 my seed and ignored or lightly did zones that I knew I could not water when away. So I spread 15 lbs TTTF and 10lbs SPF (a little bit more than 1/2 of what I had left). Sprinkler coverage much better - rain from IAN - also manual watered areas from 10/1 - 10/8 I kept things wet not soaked but more than what I would call moist. Started seeing germination in redone areas in 4 days not sure if was from previous seed or from the newly laid seed kept wet.
10/9 cooler gloomy day my yard has been pretty wet for 10 days so I reduced watering in morning and did not water in afternoon since there was very little sun or heat
10/10 WOW GRASS POPPED OVERNIGHT ( coincidence sprout and pout or letting it dry really helped) - I will water 2X (20 min morn 5-10 min afternoon) for at least another 10 days until I am at 21 days from 2nd seeding then plan on going only mornings


----------



## franktiberi

franktiberi said:


> I don't think the sprouts are KBG. I think they are from some ARG seeds I put down last fall that never germinated. These sprouts are growing faster than the sprouts in Titan RX plot.


10 days after seeding the KBG is definitely germinating now--seeing tiny sprouts everywhere. Here's hoping we don't get a surprise frost in Atlanta within the next week or so. It's been so much colder this year than last year at this time.


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## Lem855

After 2 weeks from seed down and 2-1/2 days pre germinating, I'm quite pleased with the combat extreme southern zone seed. No kbg yet to the eye but fescue doing great.


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## cokenner

@Lem855 Looking good! Will be interesting to see how it withstands next summer!


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## Cabecke2

I seeded SPF-30 Sept 17 (Raleigh, NC zone 7b) and I have had pretty good germination from day 10 onward, but what has germinated seems to still be in the 'sprout and pout' stage. Is this pretty common with SPF-30? How long does it usually last?


----------



## franktiberi

Cabecke2 said:


> I seeded SPF-30 Sept 17 (Raleigh, NC zone 7b) and I have had pretty good germination from day 10 onward, but what has germinated seems to still be in the 'sprout and pout' stage. Is this pretty common with SPF-30? How long does it usually last?


I'm not there yet with my yard, but not looking forward to it. Can you share some pics?


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## CrazyJek762

Lem855 said:


> After 2 weeks from seed down and 2-1/2 days pre germinating, I'm quite pleased with the combat extreme southern zone seed. No kbg yet to the eye but fescue doing great.
> View attachment 1291
> 
> View attachment 1290
> 
> View attachment 1289


Hey! So I am over here in SC (on border near Charlotte) and renovated my property last month and got seed down and straw over it on 9/24. I also used this Combat Extreme Southern Zone. Above ground irrigation and that Scotts 3 way with tenacity...and even though I got a ton of water from the remnants of Hurricane Ian moving through here, most of the seed seemed to stay in place (based on the fescue sprouts). My new younglings looks as tall (maybe a tad taller) than yours, but I also do not think I can see any of the KBG coming in yet. Any idea on when this should be cut? I don't want the fescue to get too too tall, but I also don't want to run a mower (wheels, my own walking) over freshly sprouted KBG for fear of killing it. I am not really used to having two different types of grasses with germination rates this far apart. I too was surprised at germination on day 6 for fescue...


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## Lem855

cokenner said:


> @Lem855 Looking good! Will be interesting to see how it withstands next summer!


Thanks, that makes all of us in dfw. I really loved the SPF30 KBG just wish it was more heat tolerant for this zone. I'll probably seed some of the more open spots with SPF30 seed alone.


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## Lem855

CrazyJek762 said:


> Hey! So I am over here in SC (on border near Charlotte) and renovated my property last month and got seed down and straw over it on 9/24. I also used this Combat Extreme Southern Zone. Above ground irrigation and that Scotts 3 way with tenacity...and even though I got a ton of water from the remnants of Hurricane Ian moving through here, most of the seed seemed to stay in place (based on the fescue sprouts). My new younglings looks as tall (maybe a tad taller) than yours, but I also do not think I can see any of the KBG coming in yet. Any idea on when this should be cut? I don't want the fescue to get too too tall, but I also don't want to run a mower (wheels, my own walking) over freshly sprouted KBG for fear of killing it. I am not really used to having two different types of grasses with germination rates this far apart. I too was surprised at germination on day 6 for fescue...


After looking at my notes when I had SPF30 alone I mowed on day 34 after seeing sprouts.
As for the fescue and kbg you bring up a good point as I'm probably 1 week or two from mowing and I'm on day 15 today and no kbg yet.
I'm going to use my fiskars push reel mower at the highest setting around 4 inches so no gas mower yet, just to heavy. I would wait til it's truly shaggy, hope this helps. Post pics when you can.


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## Laz

Pictures
9/17 Sclaped
Dirt






























10/10 Grass


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## Lem855

Laz said:


> Pictures
> 9/17 Sclaped
> Dirt
> View attachment 1518
> View attachment 1517
> 
> View attachment 1519
> View attachment 1520
> 
> 10/10 Grass
> View attachment 1521
> View attachment 1522
> 
> 
> View attachment 1523
> View attachment 1524


That's alot of work, great job. Coming along nicely 👌


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## Laz

Lem855 said:


> That's alot of work, great job. Coming along nicely 👌


I was just going to do this small area in the back that was flooding then it evolved. I bought dirt I and got extra and bought some spf 30 and combat extreme to try, neighbors (group of 6) wanted me to throw in on renting a thatcher and blower. I hate to do all that work and not put down enough seed so I bought more. I applied some Gly to problem areas earlier at the end of August about 20% of yard but mainly focused on the front if I knew I was going to do all that I did I probably would have killed it all. honestly I was a little worried about nothing coming up.

Back
















1st mow today on front lightly as possible electric mower straight lines turning on driveway and neighbors yard. I skipped the edges near road or where it is patchier and I added seed earlier this week


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## texas-ag-86

Cabecke2 said:


> I seeded SPF-30 Sept 17 (Raleigh, NC zone 7b) and I have had pretty good germination from day 10 onward, but what has germinated seems to still be in the 'sprout and pout' stage. Is this pretty common with SPF-30? How long does it usually last?


Yes, very common. I'd expect about 8 weeks, perhaps less for your area, for the plant growth to reach it's first cut. 

We are in year 2 since the original planting of SPF-30 seed here in zone 8b. What I have observed here is once the plants get established, the lawn does very well and grows more dense; it has simply taken over a year to get established. Patience has been the challenging part for me.

There were major set backs this summer with grub damage. Lost about 20% of the lawn as a result. I'll be putting down the Grub-X in April this year versus June. If there's even a remote chance of grubs in your area, I highly encourage you to get on the lawn in the spring.


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## GB2TN

Has anyone had any issues with Poa Triv contamination in their seed from Outside Pride? I'm thinking of picking up a couple bags of their Compat Extreme Southern for next year's reno but noticed it has "Other Crop Seeds" on their label. And not to mention they sell Poa Triv on their website


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## cokenner

In my reno last fall, no, but I had some pop up after overseeding this fall. Like one spot that I've seen so far. Not wide spread.


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## jeffcatton

texas-ag-86 said:


> Yes, very common. I'd expect about 8 weeks, perhaps less for your area, for the plant growth to reach it's first cut.
> 
> We are in year 2 since the original planting of SPF-30 seed here in zone 8b. What I have observed here is once the plants get established, the lawn does very well and grows more dense; it has simply taken over a year to get established. Patience has been the challenging part for me.
> 
> There were major set backs this summer with grub damage. Lost about 20% of the lawn as a result. I'll be putting down the Grub-X in April this year versus June. If there's even a remote chance of grubs in your area, I highly encourage you to get on the lawn in the spring.


I had the grub issue this year too ... I thought I protected myself, well I didn't, my fault. My grub spots I raked out and put seed down (about 2 weeks ago now) with started fertilizer and a little Nitro ... came up quick and filling in now. Lesson learned for me again, count my bags and make sure I put down the Grub Killer and weed fertilizer in the fall and spring.

Best of luck recovering !


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## Laz

GB2TN said:


> Has anyone had any issues with Poa Triv contamination in their seed from Outside Pride? I'm thinking of picking up a couple bags of their Compat Extreme Southern for next year's reno but noticed it has "Other Crop Seeds" on their label. And not to mention they sell Poa Triv on their website


Seems to be a known issue from what I read on this forum and is why I put down tenacity when I seeded. I still had it randomly popping up and manually had to pull it up about 3 weeks after seeding. I used both spf30 and southern combat extreme seed from outside pride.

Mother nature is messing with me with this blast of cold weather exactly a month after seeding. Could get to almost freezing tonight. Yard just now starting to look good and I would imagine it is almost all TTTF, hope my SPF 30 can take an early blast of cold.

I have Grubs can I put down Grub X now on a new lawn or do I need to wait until April zone 8? nevermind I read about it - Grub ex kills the eggs produced in spring so I need to wait until spring.


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## GB2TN

Laz said:


> Seems to be a known issue from what I read on this forum and is why I put down tenacity when I seeded. I still had it randomly popping up and manually had to pull it up about 3 weeks after seeding. I used both spf30 and southern combat extreme seed from outside pride.
> 
> Mother nature is messing with me with this blast of cold weather exactly a month after seeding. Could get to almost freezing tonight. Yard just now starting to look good and I would imagine it is almost all TTTF, hope my SPF 30 can take an early blast of cold.
> 
> I have Grubs can I put down Grub X now on a new lawn or do I need to wait until April zone 8? nevermind I read about it - Grub ex kills the eggs produced in spring so I need to wait until spring.


That's what I was worried about. I love the look of the SPF30/Southern Combat Extreme and it seems to be perfect for the transition zone but I really do not want to risk dealing with a Poa Triv outbreak. Decisions, decisions...

As for your grubs, you'll need to put down Trichlorfon to kill the grubs - either Bayer's BioAdvanced 24 Hour Grub Killer or Dylox. It is safe to use on new lawns. As you found out, GrubEx is just a preventative.



https://www.lowes.com/pd/BAYER-ADVANCED-24-Hour-Grub-Killer-Plus-10-lb-Insect-Killer/3353712


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## cokenner

Lawn made a great rebound. Overseeded about 3lbs on September 25th. Gonna give it another go this summer focusing on root health, PGR, and grub prevention.


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## Lem855

So I spent time pulling out these rare beauties. I hope this isn't poa a in my seed mix but just some small amount that broke thru in the renovation. Is anyone on our group experienced in determining whether this is or not? It looked very light in color than the rest of the fescue/kbg.














Fescue on the left side and possibly poa on the right and much lighter in color.


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## Green

@Lem855

I think that's actually annual ryegrass. Note the veins and lighter green color.

Could also be something else entirely.


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## Lem855

Green said:


> @Lem855
> 
> I think that's actually annual ryegrass. Note the veins and lighter green color.
> 
> Could also be something else entirely.


The grass I planted had 2 fescue cultivars and SPF30 hybrid bluegrass.This sample I pulled is not everywhere but just shiny light in color and sticks out. I pulled maybe 20 strands out so not much at all.


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## CrazyJek762

So I did a complete reno back in late September. Seeded around 9/25, watered, did everything I needed to. Grass started coming in great. The fescue came up in 6 days and started growing fast. I didn't want to cut yet because the bluegrass was taking its sweet time and I didn't wanna crush it with the mower wheels (and walking). Regardless, once the fescue got to around 3 inches it started its sprout and pout and didn't really grow any further. The bluegrass started to come in around the end of the 2nd week of October. While that grew, the fescue hit 4 inches in some spots and the leaves started coming down quickly. I just finally did the first mow on 11/6 since the fescue is 4 inches in some spots and the bluegrass is creeping in on 3 inches...maybe. And I had to get rid of the leaves.

So I did the first mow and kept it pretty high. Took around 1-1.5 inches off the tallest fescue. Not all the grass was cut as some wasn't tall enough yet to reach the mower blades.

Grass looked great.

So today (11/11) I noticed a yellowing tint across some portions of the lawn. I don't know what it is. Not sure if it's fungus, or stress from cutting. I forgot to change the mower blades, they are around a year old and on close inspection of the grass blades...it looked kinda rough (I'm so mad at myself for not thinking about that prior). The yellowing is at the tips and seems to be working it's way down?

The grass has also been wet more often than dry. Because of how long the bluegrass took to come in, I kept the surface wet. It wasn't until 3 weeks ago I started only watering a couple times a week...at most since we've gotten a lot of rain and not a lot of sun. Since early last week I haven't watered and the ground is remaining wet.

Regardless, this is my first reno and I'm a bit of a grass novice...and I'm not sure what to think. Any advice or opinions would be much appreciated. If the mower blade stressed the grass, how do I fix that? And if it's fungus, do I just grab a fungicide? I have a feeling it's a combination problem as I have two small spots which look like brown rings forming.


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## cokenner

CrazyJek762 said:


> So I did a complete reno back in late September. Seeded around 9/25, watered, did everything I needed to. Grass started coming in great. The fescue came up in 6 days and started growing fast. I didn't want to cut yet because the bluegrass was taking its sweet time and I didn't wanna crush it with the mower wheels (and walking). Regardless, once the fescue got to around 3 inches it started its sprout and pout and didn't really grow any further. The bluegrass started to come in around the end of the 2nd week of October. While that grew, the fescue hit 4 inches in some spots and the leaves started coming down quickly. I just finally did the first mow on 11/6 since the fescue is 4 inches in some spots and the bluegrass is creeping in on 3 inches...maybe. And I had to get rid of the leaves.
> 
> So I did the first mow and kept it pretty high. Took around 1-1.5 inches off the tallest fescue. Not all the grass was cut as some wasn't tall enough yet to reach the mower blades.
> 
> Grass looked great.
> 
> So today (11/11) I noticed a yellowing tint across some portions of the lawn. I don't know what it is. Not sure if it's fungus, or stress from cutting. I forgot to change the mower blades, they are around a year old and on close inspection of the grass blades...it looked kinda rough (I'm so mad at myself for not thinking about that prior). The yellowing is at the tips and seems to be working it's way down?
> 
> The grass has also been wet more often than dry. Because of how long the bluegrass took to come in, I kept the surface wet. It wasn't until 3 weeks ago I started only watering a couple times a week...at most since we've gotten a lot of rain and not a lot of sun. Since early last week I haven't watered and the ground is remaining wet.
> 
> Regardless, this is my first reno and I'm a bit of a grass novice...and I'm not sure what to think. Any advice or opinions would be much appreciated. If the mower blade stressed the grass, how do I fix that? And if it's fungus, do I just grab a fungicide? I have a feeling it's a combination problem as I have two small spots which look like brown rings forming.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3530
> 
> View attachment 3531
> 
> View attachment 3528
> 
> View attachment 3529


I’d say you’re pretty spot on with mower blades being dull. I’d sharpen them with an angle grinder flap disk, 60 grit should get it pretty good. Getting cuts like that with a rotary opens up the plant to disease and weakness.


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## jbcck1971

jeffcatton said:


> ok, got it, thanks


 How often did you need to water this summer too keep your spf 30 looking good and not going dormant?


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## cokenner

jbcck1971 said:


> How often did you need to water this summer too keep your spf 30 looking good and not going dormant?


Definitely 2”+ a week. For me that was about 4 hours total of watering with my MP Rotators per week. I also did some syringing mid day, everyday for about 20min.


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## jeffcatton

cokenner said:


> Definitely 2”+ a week. For me that was about 4 hours total of watering with my MP Rotators per week. I also did some syringing mid day, everyday for about 20min.


I did about the same watering, also snuck in the midday watering when the temps were 100+ for weeks in a row during the mid-late summer. I did have my grass cut at 2.5 - 3" all year which also helped me. @cokenner, did you have yours cut really short during the summer or did you just start in the fall? Did you use any drought or soil chemicals to help through the summer? 

Pic of todays grass out front that had 100% sun all summer and survived;


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## cokenner

jeffcatton said:


> I did about the same watering, also snuck in the midday watering when the temps were 100+ for weeks in a row during the mid-late summer. I did have my grass cut at 2.5 - 3" all year which also helped me. @cokenner, did you have yours cut really short during the summer or did you just start in the fall? Did you use any drought or soil chemicals to help through the summer?
> 
> Pic of todays grass out front that had 100% sun all summer and survived;


@jeffcatton I did during Fall/Spring, but raised HOC from 7/8" to 2 3/4" for the summer. Grubs is what got me, otherwise I think it would have withstood the summer a lot better. I did use Hydratain at the full rate on initial application in April then 1/3 rate each month through July.


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## Lem855

So that's the secrets! I surely didn't even water enough as you guys. I also have had too much clay soil and not enough good soil for deep root development. I remedied that this year. I tried to water 2" weekly during the heat of summer and still burned out. 
This year I'm trying something new along with my normal fertilizer applications. I hope to have better results this coming season. 
Jeff, thanks for the information 😉 much appreciated. 👏 👍


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## Green

I keep coming back to this thread. It's cool to see cool season grass in Texas and read about how you're doing it. I know it gets hot there, often over 100. But I was wondering, how much humidity are you guys getting? The East coast of the US gets humid just like the gulf coast at times (not as often the further North you go, but it's still a regular occurrence for us in the Summer with 70s dewpoints from time-to-time). That can cause a lot of disease problems, especially in cool season grass when it's being watered more. Actually, turf managers on the East coast and midwest tend to cut back on watering frequency when it's humid for a few days, even if it's hot out.

For those who have had the most success with the hybrid bluegrasses in Texas, and who are watering 2 inches a week in the Summer to keep up: how much humidity have you faced? Are you in an area with more relief from the humidity? Or are you seeing a lot of 70s dewpoints in the Summer? I know Texas is huge, and straddles that zone between humid and desert, but how does that translate into real life when it comes to grass?


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## jeffcatton

Green said:


> I keep coming back to this thread. It's cool to see cool season grass in Texas and read about how you're doing it. I know it gets hot there, often over 100. But I was wondering, how much humidity are you guys getting? The East coast of the US gets humid just like the gulf coast at times (not as often the further North you go, but it's still a regular occurrence for us in the Summer with 70s dewpoints from time-to-time). That can cause a lot of disease problems, especially in cool season grass when it's being watered more. Actually, turf managers on the East coast and midwest tend to cut back on watering frequency when it's humid for a few days, even if it's hot out.
> 
> For those who have had the most success with the hybrid bluegrasses in Texas, and who are watering 2 inches a week in the Summer to keep up: how much humidity have you faced? Are you in an area with more relief from the humidity? Or are you seeing a lot of 70s dewpoints in the Summer? I know Texas is huge, and straddles that zone between humid and desert, but how does that translate into real life when it comes to grass?


@Green , I am in* Fort Worth*, it always seems high but not like the costal areas 






Average Humidity Levels for Texas - Current Results


Average annual relative humidity during the morning and afternoon for places in Texas, plus highest and lowest daily humidity levels.




www.currentresults.com


----------



## cokenner

@Green humidity was nothing in the midst of summer. Too dry and hot. The spring was somewhat humid but nothing crazy. I rotated azoxy and myclobutanil in the spring and never noticed any disease/fungus pressure.


----------



## nATLzoysiaguy

I seeded SPF-30 on September 25th, and have ~75% coverage for a new renovation. I should have used a couple pounds more seed, and the drought hindered my overall success. Currently fertilizing 1/2 lb of N every other week using 24-0-11, and it's been receiving plenty of rain.

My question is about mowing height: I'm keeping it at 1.25" in a shady backyard. This time of the year most of the grass receives 3-4 hours of sunlight. Would lateral growth speed up if I mowed it taller increasing the surface area of the grass blades the sun interacts with, or will keeping it shorter encourage it to spread like Bermuda?


----------



## cokenner

nATLzoysiaguy said:


> I seeded SPF-30 on September 25th, and have ~75% coverage for a new renovation. I should have used a couple pounds more seed, and the drought hindered my overall success. Currently fertilizing 1/2 lb of N every other week using 24-0-11, and it's been receiving plenty of rain.
> 
> My question is about mowing height: I'm keeping it at 1.25" in a shady backyard. This time of the year most of the grass receives 3-4 hours of sunlight. Would lateral growth speed up if I mowed it taller increasing the surface area of the grass blades the sun interacts with, or will keeping it shorter encourage it to spread like Bermuda?


The latter. I'm hitting mine with straight 33-0-0, sprayable, at .2#N per week and PGR until the weather really dips. Trying to push as much growth as possible. Wish I would have done so when I initially did my renovation last year. The shade really hampers the growth as well, unfortunately. I have a shaded area that gets about the same sun, maybe a little less in the Fall/Winter, as your yard. It grows so slow until Spring.


----------



## cokenner

Also hitting it with some K every other week to promote root growth.


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## cokenner

Here are pics from this morning’s mow. HOC 1”. 
































The bare area is where I leveled some trenches. Right now I’d say it gets maybe 2hrs of direct sun a day. Damn house!


----------



## texas-ag-86

nATLzoysiaguy said:


> I seeded SPF-30 on September 25th, and have ~75% coverage for a new renovation. I should have used a couple pounds more seed, and the drought hindered my overall success. Currently fertilizing 1/2 lb of N every other week using 24-0-11, and it's been receiving plenty of rain.



I followed the recommended lbs per 1K and was _very_ disappointed with the results. Others posted they had great results with grass filing in; that wasn't the case here. I ended up drop seeding 6 lbs/1K with better results. This was after ½" of top dressing using composted soil.

Fall/Winter is the time of year is where root development occurs. You might consider focusing your efforts by using potassium, however, it would be best to get soil samples tested by your county ag agent to know what the soil really needs. Too much of any one item or combo can be detrimental.



> My question is about mowing height: I'm keeping it at 1.25" in a shady backyard. This time of the year most of the grass receives 3-4 hours of sunlight. Would lateral growth speed up if I mowed it taller increasing the surface area of the grass blades the sun interacts with, or will keeping it shorter encourage it to spread like Bermuda?



I read on Milorganite's site about HOC. In order to promote root growth, the plant should be kept low. Last winter I kept ours at 1" and filled in nicely. 

Summer temps of 80+ high start to show up here in April. I made the mistake of waiting to get Grub-X down and paid the price. Lost over 50% of the lawn by July 1 and essentially had to start over when temps cooled down end of October for us.

Just a caution in hopes you and others might avoid the same fate.


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## cokenner

texas-ag-86 said:


> ​
> I followed the recommended lbs per 1K and was _very_ disappointed with the results. Others posted they had great results with grass filing in; that wasn't the case here. I ended up drop seeding 6 lbs/1K with better results. This was after ½" of top dressing using composted soil.
> 
> Fall/Winter is the time of year is where root development occurs. You might consider focusing your efforts by using potassium, however, it would be best to get soil samples tested by your county ag agent to know what the soil really needs. Too much of any one item or combo can be detrimental.
> 
> ​
> I read on Milorganite's site about HOC. In order to promote root growth, the plant should be kept low. Last winter I kept ours at 1" and filled in nicely.
> 
> Summer temps of 80+ high start to show up here in April. I made the mistake of waiting to get Grub-X down and paid the price. Lost over 50% of the lawn by July 1 and essentially had to start over when temps cooled down end of October for us.
> 
> Just a caution in hopes you and others might avoid the same fate.


Exact same situation for me and grubs. Won't make that mistake again!


----------



## Green

Are grubs active in May in some of your areas? Sounds like it, if it was destroying the roots during June and the damage became evident in early July. Best thing to do is find out your grub season, and then apply the Grubex 2 months or so before it begins. Grubex/Acelepryn (Chlorantraniliprole) should probably therefore go down as early as Feb/March in a very warm climate like some parts of Texas for grub prevention.

Some of you may even need more than one application per year if the grub season lasts extra long or if you have more than one hatch season per year (just speculating; check with local extension services to see if that's something that actually happens).

Grubex also does a job on caterpillars like armyworms and sod webworms, but of course, the season may be different for them.


----------



## nATLzoysiaguy

texas-ag-86 said:


> ​
> I followed the recommended lbs per 1K and was _very_ disappointed with the results. Others posted they had great results with grass filing in; that wasn't the case here. I ended up drop seeding 6 lbs/1K with better results. This was after ½" of top dressing using composted soil.
> 
> Fall/Winter is the time of year is where root development occurs. You might consider focusing your efforts by using potassium, however, it would be best to get soil samples tested by your county ag agent to know what the soil really needs. Too much of any one item or combo can be detrimental.
> 
> I kept a couple pounds of seed in reserve for fill in, but in hindsight I wish I would have put all of it down. Going through the germination process again, even with pre-germination, is a pain.
> ​
> I read on Milorganite's site about HOC. In order to promote root growth, the plant should be kept low. Last winter I kept ours at 1" and filled in nicely.
> 
> Summer temps of 80+ high start to show up here in April. I made the mistake of waiting to get Grub-X down and paid the price. Lost over 50% of the lawn by July 1 and essentially had to start over when temps cooled down end of October for us.
> 
> Just a caution in hopes you and others might avoid the same fate.


i kept a couple pounds of seed in reserve for fill in, but in hindsight I wish I would have put all of it down. Going through the germination process again, even with pre-germination, is a pain.


I’m using 24-0-11 trying to keep the K up. My soil test this spring came back great, so it’s just maintenance. I’m also adding a bag of Carbon Pro G every month to my entire yard trying to help with OM. Gotta love red GA clay.

I spray Bifen and apply Grub X twice a year. If I don’t the moles from our neighbors yard always invade in full force. It’s so annoying!


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## Lem855

With 50 degrees temps in DFW Texas, would it be foolish to throw more seed down to possibly root before end of winter season? Or has the clock just run out?


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## jeffcatton

Lem855 said:


> With 50 degrees temps in DFW Texas, would it be foolish to throw more seed down to possibly root before end of winter season? Or has the clock just run out?


@Lem855 , I believe at this point it would not germinate as it will be below 65 for a bit now ... getting to down to mid/low 30s in the next 9 days. I put my last seeding about 3 weeks ago before it got in the 80/78 ish. It did sprout in the spots I seeded (nice rain helped) along with the nitro. Would wait until mid Feb now to seed.


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## Lem855

@jeffcatton 
thanks for the reply, that is what I was thinking. Just not sure with our crazy temp swings if it was at all possible. I also seeded 3 weeks ago and seen some progress. Just wanted to see if I could do more smaller repairs from damage from my 🐕. It's always a work in progress. 

Thanks


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## jankihaii3

I just spot sprayed spectracide weed stop (diluted from concentrate) to give the new seedlings a chance.


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