# Ran into an issue



## Guest (Feb 15, 2018)

Well with spring on the horizon i was already starting to plan a bit of leveling and additional work into the yard. My first frame of mind was to look into purchasing some more sod to finish what i had started last year. I looked in to getting some more El Toro sod. However the supplier whom was about 1 hr away has quit carrying it, The next nearest supplier is 2.5 hrs away and im not sure i wish to make that trip for grass. Any tips other than roundup it all and start over. I have about 8000 sq ft total. maybe 2500 in the front yard which is mixed zoysia and centipede. I looked into a lattitude 36 bermuda or maybe a tiftuf just sucks the wife hates the way it feels on her barefeet LOL


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm a tad confused in terms of what you are asking/considering.

Are you trying to figure out how to stretch your existing El Toro into the rest of the yard?
Are you asking for ideas on what turf will feel differently underfoot? 
None of the above?


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2018)

Well my yard is about 1/4 covered in el toro zoysia. It looks like it is just a bit harder to get now than it was last year and i didnt finish the entire yard. So i guess im asking is worth trying to work with it to get it to the rest of the yard or just nuke the lawn and go with something else. I was doubtful that it would survive in some spots at less than 6 hrs of sun but it did well. Last year the first round of it that i could even purchase wasnt until July according to the grower. I dont really want to wait that long to make a decision either.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

firefighter11 said:


> less than 6 hrs of sun


6 hours of direct sun or 6 hours of filtered sun?

I take it that your plan, prior to learning that it's a 2.5h drive to get sod, was to kill off the remaining centipede and to replace that with zoysia. If you all like the El Toro, I don't see why you can't get it over the entire yard.

So, you can either get the sod yourself, or have it delivered.

As an alternative you could make plugs from your existing turf or you could try to sprig the zoysia. Do you have a sprinkler system?


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2018)

Yes thats spot on.. In the summer months most areas see about 5 hrs full and a few filtered as best i can tell. The issue is now i have centipede, i havent killed off yet, zoysia which is 1/4 of my yard and remaining fescue. The goal was to kill of the centipede and fescue. I think the El toro looks good but i have not seen it in a full growing season to see how it does in the areas im worried about sunlight wise. The local Supersod said if its enough to cause me to worry about it then it is probably to shady however i think they were trying to push their leisure time zoysia. I do have a sprinkler system set up in the front the backyard i just move to sprinklers around as needed.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

So, I'm all about the right plant in the right place.

I'm not that familiar with the climate in Raleigh.

So first, I'd want to know what works in the area, and then from those options, evaluate my property to determine which are viable in my yard. I'd consider using a light meter to see how much sunlight you're getting and then compare that to the light requirement of the turfgrass cultivars that you are considering. If you don't want to go that route, you can simply take your chances and hope you've got enough light, or just plan to trim back or remove trees so that you get enough light.

http://www.walterreeves.com/gardening-q-and-a/zoysiagrass-for-shade/
""The grass I've been most impressed with under heavy shade is 'El Toro'."

I'm operating now under the assumption that you're sticking with the El Toro, otherwise wouldn't have been planning to buy more sod of the same thing. Therefore, the goal now is to spread it over the whole yard. Please advise if this is incorrect.

Your original post says lawn size of 8000 sqft with 2500 sqft front yard. Is that 2500sqft in the front yard (with the sprinkler system) and 4500 sqft in the backyard with the water hose sprinkler setup?

What parts of the yard have what types of grass?


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2018)

Yes the size of the yard is pretty close to that. The front does have the sprinkler. I had not seen the link you shared on shade that is very nice. In the summer id say the front yard is full sun, the back yard is partial shade the way it was listed there. Back yard now has zoysia and fescue. Front yard has zoysia and centipede. Centipede was here when we moved in 2 years back. I dont mind it but prefer the El toro over it. If i could take what i have and plug the rest of the yard that is doable. The back yard i could easily kill the fescue off i believe chemically. However the front and sides with centipede and zoysia together is a different animal from what ive read. Question for you. What type of light meter would you recommend.
Also there is the option of just Glyphosphate the zoysia and re seed with existing fescue. To be honest the fescue did decent i just really hate reseeding twice a year. The front yard gets sun from sun up to sun down just about.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

firefighter11 said:


> Yes the size of the yard is pretty close to that. The front does have the sprinkler. I had not seen the link you shared on shade that is very nice. In the summer id say the front yard is full sun, the back yard is partial shade the way it was listed there. Back yard now has zoysia and fescue. Front yard has zoysia and centipede. Centipede was here when we moved in 2 years back. I dont mind it but prefer the El toro over it. If i could take what i have and plug the rest of the yard that is doable. The back yard i could easily kill the fescue off i believe chemically. However the front and sides with centipede and zoysia together is a different animal from what ive read. Question for you. What type of light meter would you recommend.
> Also there is the option of just Glyphosphate the zoysia and re seed with existing fescue. To be honest the fescue did decent i just really hate reseeding twice a year. The front yard gets sun from sun up to sun down just about.


Some of those questions come down to personnel preference that I don't think we can answer for you.

What type of grass do you like and what type of grass will grow there may not be the same answer.

In terms of light meter, I used a LightScout DLI 100 when I was trying to determine the type of grass for my yard.

I documented the renovation and the light meter use here - https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=421


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## gatormac2112 (Sep 14, 2017)

I would drive the 2.5 hours to get the matching sod. Its better than the time it will take to do any alternative.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

gatormac2112 said:


> I would drive the 2.5 hours to get the matching sod. Its better than the time it will take to do any alternative.


+1


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

Ware said:


> gatormac2112 said:
> 
> 
> > I would drive the 2.5 hours to get the matching sod. Its better than the time it will take to do any alternative.
> ...


+2


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@wardconnor 
@Ware 
@gatormac2112

Are you guys all assuming it's one trip?

It sounds to me like he's going to need at least eight pallets of sod, if not more. How many trips is that even with a large trailer and something like an F250, two trips?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> ...It sounds to me like he's going to need at least eight pallets of sod, if not more. How many trips is that even with a large trailer and something like an F250, two trips?


Not sure - I'm having a hard time following the numbers... 4.5k is what is listed in his profile, 8k total mentioned in a post, 1/4 of something is already El Toro...

Either way, if it was the grass I really wanted I wouldn't let the closest farm being 2.5 hours away stop me. I'd haul it if I could, or if you're talking 8+ pallets, that's a quantity that you could just pay the farm (or whoever they use) to deliver.

I don't think I would have the patience to propagate zoysia from plugs.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Understood on propagation delay. I am sure this will come as no surprise. I was going to advocate broadcast stolinizing. I am assuming he's funds limited, otherwise he would have done the whole yard last year. He was willing to accept it being a two year project, so I inferred he's not exactly time limited. I think sprigs are way less work than plugs, the linch pin is being able to keep them wet, hince asking earlier about whether the OP had a sprinkler system.

Concur that delivery can be done by the farm. Whether it's one pallet or eight, it still has to be laid and irrigated, which is labor intensive and can involve other challenges. Plugs seem like a huge pain in the rear in my mind but I've never planted plugs. I think stolonizing it the cheapest, least labor intensive option, assuming a full kill of the non desired turf, that regular irrigation is available, and that the OP isn't concerned about an instant yard. It will likely take the full growing season and part of next year to become established, depending on weather and managment.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> I am assuming...


That can be dangerous. :lol:

In all seriousness, if stolonizing is your plan, Movingshrub should be your new best friend. :thumbup:


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Ware said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> > I am assuming...
> ...


All too aware regarding assuming.

I am curious what the op comes back with. In the mean time, Ware, you ever done plugging or establishment by the every other row of sod?

Also, he might be able to source his own sprigs by verticutting. Just look at the savings to be had!


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## mrigney (Jun 6, 2017)

Rent a UHaul if you need to...I got 4 pallets of Celebration on one last summer. Made two trips from my house to Birmingham (90 miles) on consecutive days. 7 pallets total. Wasn't sure I could lay 7 pallets in one day (or how much weight the truck could handle...it did fine). It was definitely worth it (to me) to make the drive to get what I wanted. In the grand scheme of things, you're talking about 3 hours more to make the 2.5 hour drive each way (vs the 1 hour drive). That's chump change compared to the hours spent mowing in one season&#128521;


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

Rent a 26 ft U haul or similar and a pallet jack and get it done. It all depends on budget and how much work you are willing to put in.

I'm considering driving to the Dallas area in a 26 ft Ryder and or flying to Dallas and renting a 26 ft to pick up 6 pallets of Caviller Zoysia for the back yard. I can't find anything but Myers which I have or El Toro which I don't want with in 300 miles. Every Sod farm in Oklahoma is stuck in the 1950's or 80's as far as Zoysia production.

How much is it worth to you?


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> > Movingshrub said:
> ...


Plugging Bermuda or Zoysia? My only experience of plugging of Zoysia is with Meyers. And I can say I'm two years in and still not close to full coverage. Common Bermuda less than one growing season. No experiences with sprigs, in fact I can't find a sod farm that even offers sprigs.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> ...In the mean time, Ware, you ever done plugging or establishment by the every other row of sod?


I've seen that (skipping rows) done with bermuda on some larger new construction lots where not restricted by covenant. A friend of mine did it in his large back yard - maybe every third row. It eventually filled in, but I could see where the original rows of sod were for a long time. He wasn't real aggressive with it though.

I've used a ProPlugger to repair some small areas, but I don't think I would have the patience to do anything large scale.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

high leverage said:


> Rent a 26 ft U haul or similar and a pallet jack and get it done. It all depends on budget and how much work you are willing to put in.


+1


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

dfw_pilot said:


> high leverage said:
> 
> 
> > Rent a 26 ft U haul or similar and a pallet jack and get it done. It all depends on budget and how much work you are willing to put in.
> ...


And if you get pulled over for speeding just casually mention you're hauling a load of "grass". :lol:


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2018)

Ware said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> > ...It sounds to me like he's going to need at least eight pallets of sod, if not more. How many trips is that even with a large trailer and something like an F250, two trips?
> ...


. I started with 3 pallets last summer. I plugged one entire pallet and that was almost like prison work LOL. The other two i rented a sodcutter and leveled by hand. Funds are the key as im on a limited budget. Plugging is great for that aspect but even El toro the fastest spreading zoysia moves incredibly slow. I think my initial post in the new thread is off on the square footage, looking at the back yard again I need roughly 3200Sq ft to finish the back and 900-1000 sq ft to finish the front. I can haul 2 pallets on a trailer at time pulling on a trailer with my f150. The place 2.5hrs away cost is 160 a pallet i believe when we spoke last summer for the EL toro. At this point it may be worth paying them to deliver a 8+ like has been said and save me the trip on fuel and trailering it. Im just a bit lost at this point :?


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> Understood on propagation delay. I am sure this will come as no surprise. I was going to advocate broadcast stolinizing. I am assuming he's funds limited, otherwise he would have done the whole yard last year. He was willing to accept it being a two year project, so I inferred he's not exactly time limited. I think sprigs are way less work than plugs, the linch pin is being able to keep them wet, hince asking earlier about whether the OP had a sprinkler system.
> 
> Concur that delivery can be done by the farm. Whether it's one pallet or eight, it still has to be laid and irrigated, which is labor intensive and can involve other challenges. Plugs seem like a huge pain in the rear in my mind but I've never planted plugs. I think stolonizing it the cheapest, least labor intensive option, assuming a full kill of the non desired turf, that regular irrigation is available, and that the OP isn't concerned about an instant yard. It will likely take the full growing season and part of next year to become established, depending on weather and managment.


Yes, Funds are limited as i went back to school and we have a little one now. I understood going in it will be slow. The zoysia is very slow, even the el toro which is supposed to be the fastest spreading type. I planted plugs in the back yard before the 4th of July and by end of growing season just started to notice a few stolons off each plug. I guess my doubt comes back to the fact that i dont know how well the grass will do in the back. Im planning to order those light meters and start with that. Hindsight i should have started there to begin with but didnt think much of it. i would need at least 3 maybe 4 trips by trailer pulling with my current truck. As stated it would be wiser to just pay the delivery service at that point i think.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

firefighter11 said:


> ...I need roughly 3200Sq ft to finish the back and 900-1000 sq ft to finish the front...


So you're looking at 9+ 450ft2 pallets to finish the whole lawn?



firefighter11 said:


> ...Funds are the key as im on a limited budget...


Understandable. Unfortunately your options are basically pay for the instant gratification of sod, invest your time and sweat in a more labor intensive approach, or some combination of the two - and you're the only one who can make that decision.

I would just encourage you to set a goal and stick to it. If an El Toro lawn is what you really want and you're going to live there a long time, I wouldn't let a few seasons of transition keep me from that goal. Just stay the course and do what you can when you can. No shame in breaking it up into manageable pieces.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2018)

Ware said:


> firefighter11 said:
> 
> 
> > ...I need roughly 3200Sq ft to finish the back and 900-1000 sq ft to finish the front...
> ...


Yeah thats a good guess i believe. I have no doubts that El toro would work well in the front. I just have my doubts about it in the back yard.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

So there you go... go pick up a couple pallets to finish the front this year, and use this season to collect some data and decide what to do with the back. :thumbup:


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2018)

Little bit of an update I decide to scrap the idea of the zoysia. I decide to go with my gut feeling on sunlight in the back yard. Up closer to the house there was some areas that started to have some moss sneak into the zoysia after just one season. Never saw it until I went out and looked it over. I placed the two pallets down mid summer and I bet 1/4 of it I was able to pull up by hand in the places where light output was iffy. It's like the roots had barely taken a hold. 
Wife thinks I'm a glutton for punishment. Anyhow I'm in the process of fixing it and will go back to a fescue in the backyard and keep my centipede in the front for now. I'll put down two some fescue sod and hope they survive the heat then reseed in the fall. 
I hope to stay active here but time is at a premium with a toddler and work and college classes trying to finish my degree. &#128517;


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