# Princess77 Lawn Reno Thread!!!!!! and mysterious lawn journey



## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

I have been putting this off long enough. It is time to start this renovation thread. As some of you may remember, I started my journey with the St. Aug conundrum tread. I don't know how to make the words hyperlink but there it is. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1398 I am going to recap some of that stuff(more pictures than anything) and bring everyone up to speed. 
I have to give credit where credit is due. This all started with LCN's Lawn Domination video and spiraled out of control from there. I watched every video that he had gathering as much info as I could and treating it as gospel and became obsessed with this art form called "Lawn Striping" (Milo is still my favorite outdoor smell). I will say I do miss some of his older stuff but I am glad to see his success and still watch every Sunday. I will get the "Thrower down" tee and maybe a sticker (don't worry TLF swag too). This is where my wanting to push St. Augustine came from. Now, before I loose too many of yall, I started to come across some other characters in the land of youtube. There was a guy who amazed me with his diamond patterns, red beard and the fact he would film from his neighbors lawn. Another who lived in the middle of the mountains and cattle fields but seemed to have a golf course in the middle of it. Finally, some guy who is obsessed with leveling his lawn and is the envy of every cool season guy this winter(no winterization of mower for him). I quickly found out that you cant make St A look like a golf course. This was my new obsession..........

Before all of this, at my last property, we had to fill and re-level the entire lot (1/4 acre) so there was a lot of research put into how and what to do. About 20 trees were cut, stumps ground and river sand was brought in and good ol' contractor blend was put down for learning purposes. Princess 77 was the wish but we didn't want to cut our teeth on something that was so expensive on land that was super shady and flooded all the time (house is raised). Kept it clean and did a little domination there but nothing crazy. This is now a rental property for us. 
Moved last May to the current project house. Where do I even begin?

The house was built in 1983 and not much has changed since then. Some stuff here and there on the inside but this is not a home reno thread (I am currently doing a live in reno inside as well, lots of projects). It is roughly 18K square feet of green space. Most of which has not been maintained for the past 10 years, at least, and there were patches of overgrown shrubs and stumps, etc. The last major "action" the lawn has seen was in 2005 with hurricane Katrina where they had lost some trees. Fast forward a couple of years and the stumps have rotted away and left a very un-level lawn. 
We moved in and the first task was to get a legitimate privacy fence up. Cleared all the overgrowth, brush, and about a thousand (maybe 15) azaleas, attached the truck to some prehistoric box woods and gave them a good yank. Removed all the old chain link, non cemented spaced picket and farm style fences.

2 days of stumpgrinding later I had something to work with. The fence goes up and now it is time to get going on landscaping and the lawn. At first I wanted to see if I could get a good strong St. A lawn going and be the envy of all the neighborhood. I quickly realized that my riding mower cut to low for St. A and ended up not helping it out too much. The lawn did get better for what it was. The lawn consisted of some St. A, Centipede, Dollar weed, and a crap ton of nutsedge. This is what I call my garden salad. Did some plugging and did alright but I was longing for that wow factor, something was missing. All hope was lost and I was found questioning the very meaning of what it was to have a nice lawn and I found this site which quickly changed my attitude. To see that people were able to produce golf quality lawns amazed and intrigued me. Being an alpha type personality, only this would do. I life in a community that is very heavy on retired aged individuals, who have time to garden, and is on a lake. I need to show them that us young-un's are up to the task of showing them how its done. I no longer was going to hide behind that tall grass and try and stipe at St. A lawn that was a hodgepodge of crap and going to take FOREVER to fully fill in with out sodding, both front and back. I now had a purpose and direction to go. I like a challenge and being different, that's where seeding Princess77 comes into play. Someone has to do it right? plus I like the ability to overseed, just in case.

I came up with a plan, with some of yalls advice, and started putting it into action around last Sept/Oct. I brought in about 60 yards of just fill (organic muck) to build beds and take care of some of my really low spots. Really wanted to rough some stuff in and get a layout together. To keep it all in place I threw down 100lbs of ARG to dominate in winter and keep my sanity. I was glad to see the success of @Ware during the winter months. This will also go down next year as well, to dominate(of course) and keep the back yard from getting muddy from the dogs running on dormant turf. Plus I just think its fun to do and looks great on Christmas.

We had some drainage issues in the back yard so the wife and I put in some ponds (3 total) attached to some French drains and boy has it helped. I have removed 5 demo bags and a my trucks flat bed full of broken concrete and just crap that we have un-earthed from the back yard. I forgot to take a photo.

I have gone full North Korea and activated the full nuclear option to the entire lawn. Death had to come to my beloved Garden Salad lawn And let me tell you, it takes a long time to spray 18K with a 2 gallon hand cannon. Everything is starting to orange up and I will do another follow up application to the green areas this weekend. Once everything meets its end in about 2 weeks I am going to rake up what I can and roto-till the entire property. Remember, nothing has been done to this lawn so it is like walking on concrete due to years of compaction. A simple core aeration will not do. After that I am going to drag everything out and get a nice and level seedbed. You know what comes next.................. seeds, seeds and seeds with some fert of course. The rest will be history......

To aide in my endeavors I was fortunate enough to win one of the JD 220B's from the weeks turf auction. I can't even explain how excited I am to use that bad boy. I turn wrenches so look out in the equipment treads for some questions I may have.

Thanks again to all the help and advice on this forum. I am a member of many and this is one of the best examples of how forums can assist and educate people. My wife hates you guys and this site because it fuels my obsession and she rolls her eyes at the memes and corny jokes.

Updates to come.............. Keep up the Green Fight!






May last year










Cleaning up crap














Fence work














Fill and bobcat work, with some Halloween action








Winter lawn








Pond building








And finally, before the kill


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

Looking forward to seeing the princess 77 renovation. It was between that and Yukon for me and I went with Yukon for this years renovation. Very impressed you killed it with a 2 gallon sprayer. That's dedication.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Truck getting some








Missed this one with some overgrowth in the back, before and after


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Flagstone path construction in the front yard




Whew! Bit of a dump on that. I just need to keep it up to date now


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Looking good! It'll be nice to follow another reno this spring/summer. Do you have irrigation? It takes a lot of water to seed and keeping the Bermuda seedlings from drying out during the summer. Check out my Reno from last year if you haven't already, I seeded Riviera.

Not to burst your bubble but it's recommended not to overseed on year one. Not to worry though as my yard has held up fantastic to 2 kids and a full grown Golden Retriever during its first winter.

For initial dirt work I would highly recommend a Harley Rake. I think @Tellycoleman will back me on that recommendation. It will make your life 100x easier.

Love the enthusiasm and keep up the good work. YouTube Harley Rakes, some companies call them Soil Conditioners like Bobcat who I rented mine from.


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

FRD135i said:


> red beard and the fact he would film from his neighbors lawn.


He sounds like a weirdo to me.... I'm Happy to see a P77 Reno in the works!


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

J_nick said:


> Do you have irrigation?
> I have some badass impacts I will have to move around, I'm thinking before and after work
> 
> Not to burst your bubble but it's recommended not to overseed on year one.
> Just following the bag for the first year


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Redtenchu said:


> FRD135i said:
> 
> 
> > red beard and the fact he would film from his neighbors lawn.
> ...


I think he is..... haha. Need some JD 220B backlapping vids from him though or tips in general.........


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

FRD135i said:


> I think he is..... haha. Need some JD 220B backlapping vids from him though or tips in general.........


👍🏻


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

I'm impressed with your work so far and would love to see you succeed. The cost of the seed alone will be substantial for the area you are going to cover. My only concern with your plan is the irrigation. As temps rise, you will likely need to be watering multiple times per day. Before and after work may not be enough to get complete germination/coverage. If this were my property, I would by a less expensive seed like Maya (tested very well against Princess and Riveria in the last NTEP) and put the extra money into more sprinklers, hose timers, etc to ensure that you are getting sufficient watering during the day. I will be watching for sure!


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

J_nick said:


> For initial dirt work I would highly recommend a Harley Rake. I think @Tellycoleman will back me on that recommendation. It will make your life 100x easier.


Well, until Telly arrives, I'll chime in suggesting the harley rake as well. My yard is 13k. I did a reno on about 10k of it and the harley rake made my life so much easier in terms of spreading dirt, smoothing, and general surface prep.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Spammage said:


> I'm impressed with your work so far and would love to see you succeed. The cost of the seed alone will be substantial for the area you are going to cover. My only concern with your plan is the irrigation. As temps rise, you will likely need to be watering multiple times per day. Before and after work may not be enough to get complete germination/coverage. If this were my property, I would by a less expensive seed like Maya (tested very well against Princess and Riveria in the last NTEP) and put the extra money into more sprinklers, hose timers, etc to ensure that you are getting sufficient watering during the day. I will be watching for sure!


Thanks!

Got my 25lb bag ready to go. 1lb per thousand but the front is getting 2lbs. Has a higher seed density than other cultivars. I know I may need to hit the backyard up again but time will tell.

It can work to my advantage/disadvantage that we get pop-up showers on almost a daily basis starting in spring. Temps get high but the humidity gets higher. Stays pretty wet around these parts. I have multiple heads linked together and the wife is going to assist with watering during the day as well. She was responsible for the other house seeding project and knocked it out of the park. I'm trying to cover my bases as much as possible.

I really appreciate the info and help covering all of my bases.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> J_nick said:
> 
> 
> > For initial dirt work I would highly recommend a Harley Rake. I think @Tellycoleman will back me on that recommendation. It will make your life 100x easier.
> ...


Going to have to see if there is one available through my peeps around here


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

I feel your pain when it comes to removing shrubbery and overgrowth off of the property. I got my fill of it about a month ago when I cleared my fence line from the adjoining plot. Looking forward to seeing your progress. Good luck, follow the recommendations that people are making, and would consider getting irrigation put in if you can afford it. It makes your life and your renovation go much easier.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

How are you killing off the existing turf & weeds?


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> I feel your pain when it comes to removing shrubbery and overgrowth off of the property. I got my fill of it about a month ago when I cleared my fence line from the adjoining plot. Looking forward to seeing your progress. Good luck, follow the recommendations that people are making, and would consider getting irrigation put in if you can afford it. It makes your life and your renovation go much easier.


Sadly, not in the budget this season. Too much going on, still have house reno's too. Wish I could. I will do my best to take all advise on board.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> How are you killing off the existing turf & weeds?


Glyphosate, glyphosate, glyphosate.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

FRD135i said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> > How are you killing off the existing turf & weeds?
> ...


I'm asking for particulars. How much? How often? How many times?


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> FRD135i said:
> 
> 
> > Movingshrub said:
> ...


Oh haha, gotcha. 
Really just following the label. %41 HDX 5oz per 2gal for about 1000 sqft. 7 days ago. I am going to cut and respray the green growers this weekend. Hopefully by next I should be good to rake and till. Let's see if the weather cooperates. Hopefully seeding 2 weeks after till.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

What are your soil temps? Bermuda germinates best when soil temps are 65°+


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

J_nick said:


> What are your soil temps? Bermuda germinates best when soil temps are 65°+


I will stick a thermometer in this weekend. Mid to late march is what Hancock seed told me to do. Night temps have been in the 50-60 range at night except for right now where we hit low 30's again. Green cast still has me in the 50's still.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

You may want to do at least three glyphosate applications, each spaced two weeks apart, and the plant needs to be actively growing to be effective. This would also go towards delaying your timeline so that the temps are high enough.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Also keep in mind that _average daily soil temp_ is not the same as an instantaneous reading you take. The 2" depth soil temp can swing 5-10°F or more in a 24-hour period around here this time of year.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> You may want to do at least three glyphosate applications, each spaced two weeks apart, and the plant needs to be actively growing to be effective. This would also go towards delaying your timeline so that the temps are high enough.


I like it, that should work out actually


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

FRD135i said:


> I like it, that should work out actually


Getting a complete kill should be your #1 goal, so while it's good to have a plan in place, I wouldn't be afraid to adjust it as needed once you get started.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Ware said:


> FRD135i said:
> 
> 
> > I like it, that should work out actually
> ...


Will do and thanks! ugh, getting nervous about all this now, sucks, haha


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm a big believer in the philosophy - proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

These are all from the University of Tennessee. 
Turfgrass Establishment: Seeding
https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/W160-B.pdf

Turfgrass Establishment: Preparing to Plant
https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/W160-A.pdf

Make sure you've got a good approach to killing off everything there now or you'll be fighting it forever. Multiple glyphosate apps, potentially mixed with fusillade, probably over two full months, when the area is actively growing.

Make sure you've got a good plan on how to do all the surface prep/leveling before putting down the seed. It's much easier to correct issues now.

Plan for weed management after planting - whether that's a lot of hand pulling or chemical, or likely a blend of both.

Feel free to check out J_Nick's, Tellycoleman's, and Colonel Korn's, seed renovations. I'm sure there are more but those are the three that crossed my mind. I think J_Nick used riveria bermuda, tellycoleman used Yukon bermuda, and Col Korn used Royal Bengal Bermuda.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Haha yea, I devoted last night to reading j_nicks reno. My eyes still hurt fro looking at the screen. Couple more left to read over.


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## balistek (Jun 5, 2017)

you give me hope. haha. I want to renovate my front yard from seed(less than 3k) and Im worried over it. I too need grading and have drainage issues, infact I am installing a sump pump this weekend. I'll be checking in very often on this thread. I too, being from the south, have St. Aug. I too bought an older home, although built 1951, and are suffering from trying to correct years of neglect. We are in the same type of climate as I am from Louisiana. Im hoping your immense success, crossing fingers, lights the fire under my *** for a future renovation.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Do not do just one kill. Out of all the hardships I had I still ended up with a decent lawn. After you have your first kill start watering you lawn alot. like you would if you put down seed. give the weeds the same oppertunity they will have when you plant. I think my main problem was that i didnt water enough in between kills and then when i planted seeds i water like crazy. The dormant dry weed seeds woke up and started a happy dance all over my lawn, I was in trouble at that point.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

balistek said:


> you give me hope. haha. I want to renovate my front yard from seed(less than 3k) and Im worried over it. I too need grading and have drainage issues, infact I am installing a sump pump this weekend. I'll be checking in very often on this thread. I too, being from the south, have St. Aug. I too bought an older home, although built 1951, and are suffering from trying to correct years of neglect. We are in the same type of climate as I am from Louisiana. Im hoping your immense success, crossing fingers, lights the fire under my @ss for a future renovation.


Thanks for the extra motivation, I didn't realize so many people would be following this.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Tellycoleman said:


> Do not do just one kill. Out of all the hardships I had I still ended up with a decent lawn. After you have your first kill start watering you lawn alot. like you would if you put down seed. give the weeds the same oppertunity they will have when you plant. I think my main problem was that i didnt water enough in between kills and then when i planted seeds i water like crazy. The dormant dry weed seeds woke up and started a happy dance all over my lawn, I was in trouble at that point.


Thanks for the advice, going to have to make that adjustment. I can't even imagine what the Nieghbor's think. "Why is he watering his dead grass?" 
Let the craziness begin!
I still have so much to learn so all help is appreciated. I'm sure I am going to make mistakes along the way. It's crazy how much knowledge there is around here.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Starting a new trend........ lawn racing stripes!!!!!!!
I guess this is what happens when you are racing daylight


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## Rackhouse Mayor (Sep 4, 2017)

Looking forward to following your progress. I have a large lawn in South MS that's in need of a reno as well. In particular, it looks like you have some shade around your property line similar to me - interested in how the bermuda fills in.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

It has arrived!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

FRD135i said:


> Starting a new trend........ lawn racing stripes!!!!!!!
> I guess this is what happens when you are racing daylight


 :rofl: That got a serious chuckle out of me. Take @Tellycoleman 's advice, and do a multiple kill, with waterings in between. Expect to look at a "dormant" yard for a long time, before you're ready to throw your seed down. If I recall, Telly got burnt during his renovation.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> FRD135i said:
> 
> 
> > Starting a new trend........ lawn racing stripes!!!!!!!
> ...


Yea, deff. doing multiple kills. Picture doesn't do justice, it's pretty funny looking. Every time I come home I just shake my head and hang it in sorrow.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> FRD135i said:
> 
> 
> > Starting a new trend........ lawn racing stripes!!!!!!!
> ...


Lol lol lol that was an understatement. Do hard work before it gets to hot. I almost forgot about the sunburn. If you want to see a less than stellar seeding read my renovation thread.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Tellycoleman said:


> Colonel K0rn said:
> 
> 
> > FRD135i said:
> ...


You're going to take your own advice this year on your next reno, aren't you?  And some sunblock! I have to get SPF 100 and put that on my bald head, otherwise it gets really burnt. :nod:


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

I didn't even think I needed sunscreen ( hey I got natures sunscreen) I never even bought any until last year. That Tennessee sun kicked my but. 
The tan lines have finally gone. Lol 
Let's see if I get them back this year. 
I plan on renovating 7k this year. Taking it in smaller sections to make it more manageable.
But unlike last year I am in no hurry to start.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Update time!!!!!!
Did two rounds of glyphosate and went to tillin'. Told some people walking past when they asked me what was going on I told them that I got tired of the city life and was planting some corn for the farmers market. :lol: 




One more application of glyphosate after the till should do it


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## Bunnysarefat (May 4, 2017)

In the instances I've used it, I've gotten pretty outstanding results from spiking herbicides with DMSO. It's a crazy chemical with some amazing properties, and it's on Amazon for like $12. Not trying to push drugs on you that you don't need but it's worth considering if your old grass comes back more than you thought with this last round of glyphosate.

Edit: wait, nvm. You have st. Augustine. That grass is dead AF :lol:


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Bunnysarefat said:


> Edit: wait, nvm. You have st. Augustine. That grass is dead AF :lol:


Here's to hoping so.


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## Bunnysarefat (May 4, 2017)

I've killed st. Augustine before and it's no problem. It barely even lives underground. If you don't see it on the surface, 99% chance it's gone. Hell, you can just about kill St. Augustine by fertilizing it every month because of all the problems that start to occur.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

While the grass is soft and fluffy start leveling your lawn. Do you have a drag mat or at least a metal construction rake. Make this your priority. If you wait you will find it increasingly hard to level the lawn.
How deep did you till the soil? If you tilled very deep I would consider rolling your lawn. I did even though I didn't go very deep with a Harley rake. 
When do you plan on seeding? I'm a little concerned that you are a little early. Check your dirt temperature when you first wake up. The hotter the better. If you go outside and you don't say damn it's hot. Don't seed. 
Why? Because cooler temps will delay germination of Bermuda grass. But cooler temps won't delay summer weed germination. Trust me you don't want to compete with weeds. 
South Mississippi rains almost everyday at 2-3 pm during the spring for about 15-20 min. This could be a benefit or curse. 
Yes you get rain but you also get heavy downpours sometimes with the sun still shining.


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## TC2 (Sep 15, 2017)

A problem with tilling is that it is difficult to maintain a constant depth. This means that, even if the surface is flat, the underlying soil structure might not be. When the fluffy soil starts to settle onto the hard underlying surface, the bumps and ridges of your substructure will show. Give it a good soak and roll to get the settling process moving so you can hopefully spot any areas that might need remediation.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Tellycoleman said:


> Do you have a drag mat or at least a metal construction rake. Make this your priority. If you wait you will find it increasingly hard to level the lawn.
> How deep did you till the soil? If you tilled very deep I would consider rolling your lawn. I did even though I didn't go very deep with a Harley rake.
> When do you plan on seeding? I'm a little concerned that you are a little early.


Yes, I have a drag mat. I'm just waiting until I fix my carb on my craftsman lawn tractor and I will give it a drag. tilling the backyard today and working on the tractor. Got way to many things going on. Sat was dedicated to installing windows. "What are you doing now" thread.

I am def waiting on throwing the seed down, looks like we have some 40's coming later this week plus it gives me more time to kill anything off and get good and level. I just hope we don't get anymore downpours like yesterday, don't know if my lawn will survive any big washouts without turf roots. I do hope that the normal pop-ups keep everything moist so I don't have to water as much.

I plan on rolling with the 220B, best thing I have for the job.

Tilled about 3-4 inches deep, did double passes perpendicular to really break stuff up. Soil was pretty dang compacted.

Like I said, I hope I can pull this thing off as best I can, lots of life going on.

Thanks again for all the help and support, keep it coming.

Keep up the green fight


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

TC2 said:


> A problem with tilling is that it is difficult to maintain a constant depth. This means that, even if the surface is flat, the underlying soil structure might not be. When the fluffy soil starts to settle onto the hard underlying surface, the bumps and ridges of your substructure will show. Give it a good soak and roll to get the settling process moving so you can hopefully spot any areas that might need remediation.


I agree with the above statement. I would go as shallow as possible with the tiller. often times you are left with a bumpier lawn after tilling when the soil settles. I would not try to aerate your soil deep with a tiller. This is often why a Harley rake is preferred.
However since this is done I would go to home depot and rent a lawn roller fill it up with water and roll your lawn/ dirt. This will probably save you a lot of time in the future. Either from releveling or sand leveling.
I did this twice to my lawn once after Harley rake and again after seeding to ensure soil contact


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Post till and hand pulled drag mat. Need to get a new carb for the tractor, so everything is by hand for now. Going to drag a couple more times then roll it out.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

I feel your pain man, that's a lot of area to drag by hand! Working my drag mat on the front yard in the summer heat whipped my ***, before seed down, and again after my washout 3 days later. I can only imagine what it would be like to have to do my whole lot with that heavy thing. One recommendation is to drag, drag and drag some more. And when you think you've got it as level as you can, roll it, and drag drag drag. Remove as much of that dead OM off of the area as you can. Blanket spray roundup the day before you seed, so you can hedge your bets on killing anything before it comes time to seed, since it will only affect what's actively growing, and not the seed you're putting down.

Plan on hand-weeding everything that grows that doesn't look like grass, and don't miss your PreM treatment this Fall. You'll be just fine!

I have to say, I laughed out loud when I read your grass type in your profile on the post above this.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> I feel your pain man, that's a lot of area to drag by hand! Working my drag mat on the front yard in the summer heat whipped my @ss, before seed down, and again after my washout 3 days later. I can only imagine what it would be like to have to do my whole lot with that heavy thing. One recommendation is to drag, drag and drag some more. And when you think you've got it as level as you can, roll it, and drag drag drag. Remove as much of that dead OM off of the area as you can. Blanket spray roundup the day before you seed, so you can hedge your bets on killing anything before it comes time to seed, since it will only affect what's actively growing, and not the seed you're putting down.
> 
> Plan on hand-weeding everything that grows that doesn't look like grass, and don't miss your PreM treatment this Fall. You'll be just fine!
> 
> I have to say, I laughed out loud when I read your grass type in your profile on the post above this.


Thanks man. Hopefully I will have my craftsman up and running soon but until then I'm going at it the old school way. I feel like I have gotten a lot done but so much more to go. It's good being able to read everyone's stuff from the past. My biggest fear I having a huge washout like you had. My grade is pretty extreme so that would be catastrophic. 
I didn't know that you could seed so soon after a glyphosate app. Gonna have to give that a go for extra security.
I feel like I'm in the movie field of dreams now when the town thinks he is crazy for plowing his field.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Fixed


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

FRD135i said:


> I don't know why that quoted the way that it did.


It looks like the quote was partially truncated. Try editing the post and adding the letter "e" and the end bracket right after [/quot -> ]


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

:thumbup:


Colonel K0rn said:


> FRD135i said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know why that quoted the way that it did.
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Not quite the update I want to write. Been working off and on with the yard. The temps, bringing in sand, trimming trees, and other projects. I did get one of the flagstone walking paths completed.

Finally got my craftsman running again and started moving some sand around with it. There was some hope that I would be moving right along and then boom! Grenaded that bad boy. All hope was lost and I was about to throw in the towel. Anyone remember that scene from saving private Ryan where the doc is patching that guy up on Normandy and gets him stable then he gets shot in the dome piece?

Yea well that's where I was with that mower. It was my work horse. My everything. We have been through so much together. I mourned the loss and jumped on Craig's list. Fast forward 24 hours and I had a "new" old craftsman with an 18hp Briggs. 1/2 hp more than the last one!!! R.I.P 17.5, it's been fun.

Got the drag mat back out and got to making things smooth again. Picked up more sand today to get some leveling done. Just have to wait and see when I will be getting a tree in the back removed and my oak trimmed and opened up. Then it will be seed:30.

This has seriously been the hardest thing to do; stare at dirt and know there is nothing you can do about it for the time being. I feel like less of a man looking upon the barren wasteland that is my "yard". I have two glyphosate apps down and will do one more before I seed. I think I am fully operational again and hope to be greening up in the not to far future. "Don't cry for me, my lawn is already dead"



Ohhhhhh and these dudes showed up!


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

How are they temperament wise? Some bees are not suitable to be kept in neighborhoods.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

@Greendoc 
Very calm demeanor. Non Africanized honey bees. I sit right next to the hive and just watch them come and go. They land on me while I change their sugar water out, no issues. As long as you are calm, they are calm. Away from the hive, no issues.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Good. I have experienced bees that do not allow you anywhere near their hive.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> Good. I have experienced bees that do not allow you anywhere near their hive.


I'm sorry to hear that. They really are a joy to work with. So much so that there are wounded warrior programs that use beekeeping as therapy.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

A lot of bees in Hawaii do not allow your near their hives and many of them are aggressive if you get near them out in the open. They will chase you. Supposedly, there are no African bee hybrids here, so this does not make sense.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Your path looks really nicely done, and I feel you about looking out across a dead lawn. That's where I've been since February  But don't fret, come Father's Day, you and I will have nice lawns to mow


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> Your path looks really nicely done, and I feel you about looking out across a dead lawn. That's where I've been since February  But don't fret, come Father's Day, you and I will have nice lawns to mow


Someone mentioned that in another thread and that where it hit home for me. I am going to miss the peak of lawn season........... this is why I hate running, I don't like marathons.

On that note though, with my greens mower, when should I start mowing?
@Colonel K0rn @Ware 
@wardconnor
@J_nick


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

FRD135i said:


> On that note though, with my greens mower, when should I start mowing?


I would also seek insight from @J_nick, he has completed the most successful Bermuda renovation I've ever seen.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Thanks for the compliment @Redtenchu!

For starters if you haven't read this article from the University of Arkansas do so, a few times. I read it numerous times before and during my renovation. The article will tell you when and how much to fertilize and when and what weed control can be used. I credit it to the success of my reno.

The article briefly mentions when to start mowing. It says "Begin mowing at 0.5 to 0.75 inch or at desired height as soon as needed". I started off at .5" and would do it again in a heartbeat, after a month or so I raised the HOC up to 5/8" to stay on top of it as I wasn't using PGR on it. So when to start mowing is more of your personal preference. Remember you can always raise the HOC but I wouldn't advise lowering it since the grass is so young.

I started mowing on day 17 after seeding and the grass responded quite nicely to it, 4 days later it looked 100x better.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Thanks @J_nick . I really appreciate it.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

No problem man, if you have any other questions don't be afraid to ask.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

I feel like it has been forever. I thought the moment would never arrive, but at long last it has..........





Ladies and Gentlemen,
Princess 77 seed has gone down! With that comes many nerves about it failing and me looking like a jack***. Of course I did this based on the forecast that we were supposed to be getting daily pop ups like normal, but it seems that the forecasts have changed. I guess I just have to stay on my watering game. I'm getting ready to start pulling some weeds too. Just super stressed now about getting these little guys growing.

Anywho, yesterday starter feet went down(10-10-10) at recommended rate, milo went down the same, seed went down and then I rolled it. Watering has begun. Hopefully the temps back off a bit to help with watering but we will see. 






Hopefully I can pull this off. The wife hates the smell again, she did not miss it.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

I was just thinking about your lawn the other day. You got this! It won't be long before you're out at night with a flashlight looking for dew reflections. When you can see the dew reflecting back at you in the middle of the night, it's because it's on a leaf blade. Then you can dance.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Lay seed, watering my butt off hoping nothing dries out, hoping for germination, worrying that this will be a failed reno and I have to sit at work and see this.


Universe:1 me:0


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Lawn log, seed watch, day 6.
I feel isolated when I walk out into the lawn, like that scene in pirates of the carrabian where Jack Sparrow is in Davy Jones' Locker and has a ship with no water. These have been the longest 6 days of "Lawn related" life. 

I have been keeping things moist and I don't want to jump the gun buuuuuuuuut

Weed or seed?



i had some other spots but these were the best photos


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Those are weeds, but hey, they're green


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> Those are weeds, but hey, they're green


Well, I guess the battle against the weeds begins!


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> Those are weeds, but hey, they're green


Looks like Bermuda seedlings to me. @Fistertondeluxe what do you think?


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

Looks like Bermuda to me I had germination around day 6. Here were mine for reference


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

This was crab grass. Similar but they tiler a lot faster.


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## TigerinFL (Mar 29, 2018)

it will get there soon.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

FRD135i said:


> Lawn log, seed watch, day 6.
> 
> Weed or seed?
> 
> ...


At day 6 that is to early for tillered growth. that looks like a case of crabs. Ground looks a little dry to. Keep it up it. 
Nothing you can do but water and wait for about 4-6 weeks before you treat chemically. I was there a year ago and so was @J_nick


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Tellycoleman said:


> FRD135i said:
> 
> 
> > Lawn log, seed watch, day 6.
> ...


I'm trying to keep it all damp. We are fighting record highs and super drys. Should, emphasis on should, get some rain this week starting tomorrow. I am not looking forward to my water bill. Thanks for all the info and def can't wait until I get to apply some herbicides


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

For reference, here's my growth at day 6









Day 14, with crabgrass front and center.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Day 8, P77 seed watch



Received about 0.08 of natural rain, overcast most of the day. Should still be getting some amount of liquid sunshine. Forecasts still don't know if we are going to see the low forming south of the gulf.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Day 11, P77 seed watch


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

You have quite a bit coming in. Time to celebrate


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Day 13, P77 seed watch


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Just had to do a quick update.

Day 15 and put in my first cut @ 0.70.
There are baby stripes in them hills.
Still getting new germination everyday. Hoping it spreads a bit more. I have been getting very little help from Mother Nature but did enjoy some showers this weekend. I'm just going to keep on pushing.


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## raymond (May 4, 2018)

FRD135i said:


> Just had to do a quick update.
> 
> Day 15 and put in my first cut @ 0.70.
> There are baby stripes in them hills.
> Still getting new germination everyday. Hoping it spreads a bit more. I have been getting very little help from Mother Nature but did enjoy some showers this weekend. I'm just going to keep on pushing.


Looking good! Solid stripes :thumbup:


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Care if I move this to the new 'lawn journals' subforum?


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Ware said:


> Care if I move this to the new 'lawn journals' subforum?


 :thumbup: good to go


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Looks like my reel cutting is on hold. I guess my next stop is to a JD website. Not happy.


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## Thor865 (Mar 26, 2018)

FRD135i said:


> Looks like my reel cutting is on hold. I guess my next stop is to a JD website. Not happy.


What happened? 😲


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Thor865 said:


> FRD135i said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like my reel cutting is on hold. I guess my next stop is to a JD website. Not happy.
> ...


Due to heavy watering and a long long time without grass there was some erosion that took place and revealed a very old root just enough to ruin my happy times. Should have been paying more attention I guess. Hard lesson to learn.


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## Sbcgenii (May 13, 2018)

Is the rest of the bedknife okay? Is the reel okay? You could always cut the bent part off until you get the new knife in. Sorry about the luck.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Sbcgenii said:


> Is the rest of the bedknife okay? Is the reel okay? You could always cut the bent part off until you get the new knife in. Sorry about the luck.


Got a new one coming and I will have to get a torch on some of the reel. We will see how salvageable it is. Keeping my fingers crossed

Very down in the dumps right now. Supper pissed at myself


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Day 21, P77 seed watch.

Cut with the rotary push mower, HOC: don't care. Wore my reel low shirt to mow and it was blastfamy. 
Miss my 220B, hopefully the bedknife comes in soon. 
All jokes aside, still getting germination and P77 is starting is starting to fill in. Just need some lateral movement. Need to get the reel up and running. 




The spots I filled with sand are taking a bit longer.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

You know you can now change your grass type in your profile to P77  I did it when I had germination, you're now mowing! When's the next spoon feed? It seems like on my renovation when I hit it with the second dose of N, I started seeing stolons going.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> You know you can now change your grass type in your profile to P77  I did it when I had germination, you're now mowing! When's the next spoon feed? It seems like on my renovation when I hit it with the second dose of N, I started seeing stolons going.


If I remember from the article correctly, it said something along the lines of 4 weeks to hit it with some N. Probably going to throw some down this weekend. Doesn't look like I have any rain in the near future to plan for either, so that kind of sucks. At least my water bill was only $60 higher than normal, so that was a huge sigh of relief.

When should PGR go down? Not trying to jump the gun, just trying to plan.


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

I haven't applied my PGR yet. I'm waiting to see what areas are thin from my insane crab grass and the effects of the MSMA on my Yukon. I have been doing bi weekly doses of AMS and have had good results


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

I would hold off on using any PGR for this year, just to promote fill in vigor. I didn't put any on my front yard until this year, so it was in the ground for 8 months before it got any. The back yard was established, so I didn't have any issues putting it there, but I really went hands-off of the front for the first 2 seasons. Wish I wouldn't have held off on the PreM though.

But the cool thing is that you had great success with your quick growth, it's your yard man, give it a try!


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Day 28




Gave it a cut and threw down some TSC 18-24-6 at the bag recommended rate. Needed to get something down and was literally sprinting in the back yard throwing down some fert before the rain hit. It has rained everyday sience Sunday. Hopefully I am going to get some a good reaction from the rain and not too much washout.

Also, as you can see, I had to put reflectors in my yard because the UPS driver put 6in ruts along a 15ft stretch along the front.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Week 6 of the P77 lawn journey.

The weed pressure is getting unbearable. The wife can't even stand it. Celsius is on the way. There was a delay in getting it due to my CC# being stolen, so I had to wait to get that squared away. Funny how online stores won't accept cash. I plan on putting some milo down next weekend to keep this stuff going and hopefully promote spreading. I really wish it would spread quicker, getting a bit discouraged. I know it takes time, but the "patchy", weedy lawn is getting old. Almost want to let the weeds take over and just mow the lawn salad like I have in the past. Just venting a tad I guess.

I, hopefully, will be getting the 220b up and running again. I have all the parts and ************ compound(220,180,160) ready to go. All the house renovations are kicking my butt and I haven't been able to get to it. The list keeps on growing. I wish I had more to post but that's all I have for now. Keep up the green fight.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

This came in the mail today. Applying this weekend.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

@Colonel K0rn @Tellycoleman @Ware @wardconnor 
I am giving in, I can no longer do this on my own. I feel like my P77 is on life support and I am loosing the battle. The lawn is ok but very thin and fighting for its life. I did a full app of starter fert last week, best thing I had available where I'm at. I'll be going back to milo for the future.

I sprayed Celsius today at the med. rate. Haven't been watering too much because we have been having torrential spot showers almost daily. About 0.25 inches.

In the back I am being overtaken by all kinds of weeds and also have those lines of death that you see in the pictures. Not to sure what that is.









This is the front, just some weeds and some brown spots. The front is in far better shape. I also threw down some total insect control just to be sure. 




I am not in panic mode but I am worried about the situation. Any help would be appreciated. I have not had a soil test done yet so no answers with those specifics.

And @Greendoc
And @J_nick


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## Crabbychas (Apr 25, 2018)

I know you said you've thrown down Milo and starter feet, is that it? I seeded my Bermuda a little bit before you and I've thrown down probably 5-6 lbs of nitrogen. That baby grass doesn't have deep roots yet so you've got to keep the nitrogen available. Ive pulled a few with 3 inch roots but most of mine are only about 1.5 inches long.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Crabbychas said:


> I know you said you've thrown down Milo and starter feet, is that it? I seeded my Bermuda a little bit before you and I've thrown down probably 5-6 lbs of nitrogen. That baby grass doesn't have deep roots yet so you've got to keep the nitrogen available. Ive pulled a few with 3 inch roots but most of mine are only about 1.5 inches long.


Yea, one app of milo and two of starter fert. Was going to do another full app of milo next weekend.


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## Crabbychas (Apr 25, 2018)

I'd try throwing down .5#N/1k every week and see if it helps. If you've put down that much starter fert the p and k should be good for now. My lawn got munched pretty heavily by armyworms to the point it looked like your bad spots everywhere and it was almost fully recovered within a week after I got rid of them and put down some 21-0-0.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Crabbychas said:


> I'd try throwing down .5#N/1k every week and see if it helps. If you've put down that much starter fert the p and k should be good for now. My lawn got munched pretty heavily by armyworms to the point it looked like your bad spots everywhere and it was almost fully recovered within a week after I got rid of them and put down some 21-0-0.


I saw that, that was a heart breaker. That's why I put down some incectacide. Had some moths flying up as I walked around. I'll work on getting more N down.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Hey, don't get discouraged! You've got this!

If you can switch to spoon feeding, and mowing low, even with a push reel mower, you can get your bermuda to spread. Look at how very little of my yard was alive when I started in February... not much at all. Most of the stuff was Poa. Believe me, you've got plenty there to last through the season, and getting the weeds under control is going to be mostly accomplished by spoon-feeding your lot.

If you can find a small-prill urea that's water soluble, you can easily apply .25#N/M with a backpack sprayer. I've been doing it for the past 2 months, and it's been very helpful in getting the grass to spread consistently. Whatever weeds you're facing can be controlled, but you've got to make sure that the N is available for the baby grass to grow like @Crabbychas said.

If you can get a push reel mower, check craigslist, but if not, they're just over $100. I still use mine, even though I have a greensmower. Some areas I don't want to take it into, but some areas grow very quickly. Before I had the Flex, I used the push mower to get my HOC down, to where the bermuda will outcompete the taller weeds.

Proper mowing and consistent fertilization, coupled with a PreM are going to be the best cultural practices to implement to have the greatest chance of success.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> Hey, don't get discouraged! You've got this!
> 
> If you can switch to spoon feeding, and mowing low, even with a push reel mower, you can get your bermuda to spread. Look at how very little of my yard was alive when I started in February... not much at all. Most of the stuff was Poa. Believe me, you've got plenty there to last through the season, and getting the weeds under control is going to be mostly accomplished by spoon-feeding your lot.
> 
> ...


Thanks CK, I "should" have the JD up and running this week. I'll work on spoon feeding and look into some urea. Too bad there is a site one 45min away in the town I just moved from. You know it's bad when the wife is hounding you about how the weeds are taking over and it looked better before the Reno. :roll: 
Thanks again for all the info.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

@FRD135i for what it's worth, I got my urea from my local feed & seed store. See if there's one near you, it's where farmers go to get hay, pinestraw, seeds, dog food, etc. Ask if they have a dissoveable prill.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> FRD135i for what it's worth, I got my urea from my local feed & seed store. See if there's one near you, it's where farmers go to get hay, pinestraw, seeds, dog food, etc. Ask if they have a dissoveable prill.


Will do, I'm sure the feed store that has my bee stuff will have it. Don't know why I didn't think about that.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Put this down today, will get a cut and photos tomorrow to see how it does

No milo, it was my only choice.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

It has finally happened! The return of the 220B!!!!!! :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: 


Now let's see what happens!!


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Sorry it has been soooooo long but the house has been keeping my too damn busy. Just an update photo for now. The 220b and I are getting used to ourselves. The grass is filling in, it's a rush to dormancy.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Hey, it's looking better every update! That's positive movement. What rate are you applying N?


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> Hey, it's looking better every update! That's positive movement. What rate are you applying N?


Sadly, 1lb every 4 weeks. I want to do the .25 a week. Hopefully I can start that this coming week but I don't know. I'm due for another app


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

If you could keep up with the mowing, you could go to 1.5#. "Throw'er down!" There's enough time left in the season to really push it.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Boy has it been a while! Just a quick update on the front, pics of the back tomorrow
Was feeling creative on Oct 5th


And then got a fresh cut on it today. Applied Celsius last Sunday to get rid of some crazy amounts of clover and Virginia buttonweed


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

halloween preps.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Time for the first update of 2019. 
I feel like my lawn never really went into dormancy this year and it seems to already be coming in strong. I think the forecast has one more frost before I am in the clear. I had a couple of cuts over the winter but mostly just had to focus on keeping the leaves cleaned up. 
We had a bunch of rain in the area which caused poa to go bonkers and another grassy weed I have not identified. Celsius will be applied soon.
Last wend (13feb) I applied a pre-em with dimension. Has a stay time of 4 months.





Today I gave the first real(reel) cut of the season. I am really looking forward to making great gains and progress with the Princess77 and landscaping this year. Thanks again to everyone who has helped so far and will in the future





Also, trimmed up the oak in the front and really opened it up.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Cut at 0.5 inches and applied 33-0-0 at 1lb per thousand in preparation for the rain tomorrow.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Just some update photos, still cutting at .5 inch


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Looks great!

I just started my Princess 77 Bermuda Renovation 2 weeks ago and I am excited and nervous...I want get it right!

Glad to see your hard work payed off!


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

ENC_Lawn said:


> Looks great!
> 
> I just started my Princess 77 Bermuda Renovation 2 weeks ago and I am excited and nervous...I want get it right!
> 
> Glad to see your hard work payed off!


Still a long way to go, can't wait to get some PGR down. Gotta get it good and thick this year


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Threw this down today! Wife wanted green grass for when the fam stops by for Xmas. I know it's late but at least I'll have it the rest of winter. Pics to follow.


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