# Tell me about Steiners



## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

This is a breakout of this post.





> Ridgerunner said:
> 
> 
> > > I mean we all know I WOULD scrape snow off another vehicle all winter so I could work on a triplex but CMON!!!!! Mrs. HLG is too smoking haaawwwt not to listen to!!!!! :rotfl:
> ...


This actually might be perfect. It would be great if I could have one device for mowing and leaf mulching to save space, reel mow (.5" - 2" range), and actually - my wife had asked about a snow plow - so that would totally help sell it.

Anyways - can these pull a spreader / sprayer? I don't see a hitch on them.

ETA: put my comment in the quote ooooooops


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

> This actually might be perfect. It would be great if I could have one device for mowing and leaf mulching to save space, reel mow (.5" - 2" range), and actually - my wife had asked about a snow plow - so that would totally help sell it.


Now I've stepped in it. Me and my mouth. 



> Anyways - can these pull a spreader / sprayer? I don't see a hitch on them.


I can't say for sure about the 230 series, but a hook could probably be easily welded to the back "bumper."

Most of the 420s, 430s and up that I've ever seen do have a hook pin hole. It's a standard feature of the weight bar option--almost all used Steiner 400 series come with a weight bar though and one would be required for the reel attachment. It is between the weights, so not visible in those pictures. I have used mine to pull an aerator and cart. There is also a 3pt available (but no rear PTO is available); that's overkill, but what the heck if the tractor comes with it and some do.

Picture of mine:


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Ridgerunner said:


> Picture of mine:


Have any more pics of the whole machine? Very cool. :thumbup:


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Ware said:


> Ridgerunner said:
> 
> 
> > Picture of mine:
> ...


Just the poor one in this thread:
http://www.thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=285
It's a 1996 or 1997 420/Onan with about 1250 hrs now. (bought it about 5-6 yrs ago with 1054 hrs.)
Please ignore the messy garage.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I think I remembered that as I hit submit. It looks well cared for. :thumbup:


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Steiner?



Oh sorry, wrong Steiner.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Great!more competition on the Indy Craiglist! :evil:

I've been looking for the last 3 months and nothing pops up. I might have to do a trip South of the mason-dixon line to get something.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

HoosierLawnGnome said:


>


Don't mind me, just wanted to add a little gas to the fire :twisted:


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

^ I agree that a little gas and fire should get rid of that weed. You need a full Reno since your whole yard is full of a nasty weed. :lol:

What you used to mow it? The h-20?


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

g-man said:


> ^ I agree that a little gas and fire should get rid of that weed. You need a full Reno since your whole yard is full of a nasty weed. :lol:
> 
> What you used to mow it? The h-20?


Everything in the video gets mowed with the John Deere 220B. I use the H-20 on my hill out front and a few other areas I didn't reno this spring.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

Yeah, I don't need a hitch or hook - I just need the pin hole to pull my spreader, aerator, sprayer, etc.

How fast is it?

My ZT gives a very nice cut right now, and it's FAST. I can cut it in a bit over an hour.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

HoosierLawnGnome said:


> Yeah, I don't need a hitch or hook - I just need the pin hole to pull my spreader, aerator, sprayer, etc.
> 
> How fast is it?
> 
> My ZT gives a very nice cut right now, and it's FAST. I can cut it in a bit over an hour.


That's a trick question. 
About 10mph. I believe my 420 manual stated 9.9 and the 430s are 10.5 max. Low gear is 5mph.
However, I would think the triplex reel would be controlling. Maybe someone using a triplex (any brand) can give you an answer for the max. ground speed they can do.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

The triplex I'm looking at recommends ground speed around 4-5 mph depending on HOC because different speeds varies the clip rate. It's an older unit though I think the newer models can change the reel speed in relation to the ground speed.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

My ZT goes up to 7, but I rarely have it flat out for mowing - 5 to 6 would be a match.

DANG I WANT ONE.......


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

HLG a 100" John deere for $1000.

https://indianapolis.craigslist.org/grd/d/john-deere-3225b-100-mower/6332617366.html


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

g-man said:


> HLG a 100" greens for $1000.
> 
> https://indianapolis.craigslist.org/grd/d/john-deere-3225b-100-mower/6332617366.html


That's a fairway mower but should still get the job done just fine!!!


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

Not bad!

I start scalping spots @ around 2", so until I can undertake a leveling project, I'm not going to be cutting < 1".


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

HoosierLawnGnome said:


> Not bad!
> 
> I start scalping spots @ around 2", so until I can undertake a leveling project, I'm not going to be cutting < 1".


Just because you scalp with a rotory at 2", doesn't mean you won't be able to cut lower with a reel. Rotory vs. reel will not be the same. I scalp a couple spots at 2.25" with a 54" rotory deck, yet will be lowering to .75" with The reels in a week. The reels handle slopes, hills, and bumps alot better than a rotory. I've said this before, but I feel as almost any yard can be cut at 1" with a reel that has full length front and rear rollers.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Are the specs different for greens vs fairway reel mowers? Like, is there a difference in the HOC range adjustment or anything?


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Pete1313 said:


> Just because you scalp with a rotory at 2", doesn't mean you won't be able to cut lower with a reel.


+1. I scalped at 2/1 inches with a rotary and can cut at 1/2 inches with a GM1000.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Ridgerunner said:


> Are the specs different for greens vs fairway reel mowers? Like, is there a difference in the HOC range adjustment or anything?


Yes. Greens mowers have lighter cutting heads with a lower HOC range, while fairway mower heads are heavier duty, have a higher HOC range, and are alot heavier.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

> Yes. Greens mowers have lighter cutting heads with a lower HOC range, while fairway mower heads are heavier duty, have a higher HOC range, and are alot heavier.


So I'm guessing a fairway mower would have a minimum HOC. Would that minimum be low enough to get the kind of effect that you are aiming for with your KBG, or would it be too hihg for that carpet look?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Ridgerunner said:


> So I'm guessing a fairway mower would have a minimum HOC. Would that minimum be low enough to get the kind of effect that you are aiming for with your KBG, or would it be too hihg for that carpet look?


Yes, but I would say it is above the lowest HOC most of us are dealing with. For example, a Toro Reelmaster® 3100 has a HOC range of 6.4 mm to 6.4 cm (0.25 - 2.5 inches).


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Ware said:


> Ridgerunner said:
> 
> 
> > So I'm guessing a fairway mower would have a minimum HOC. Would that minimum be low enough to get the kind of effect that you are aiming for with your KBG, or would it be too hihg for that carpet look?
> ...


+1
Another example are the John Deere cutting heads. The QA7 is a heavy duty 7" diameter reel used on fairway and trim units and has a HOC range of 0.35" - 2.48". The QA5 head is a 5" diameter reel used on greens mowers (although they are on a few fairway models) and have a HOC range of 0.00" - 1.42"


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

Well, my wife actually suggested the idea first of getting a snow plow for my ZT several months ago. So the whole snow plow approach was her idea 

As such, I'm in the clear for getting an all-in-one mini-tractor like the Steiner :yahoo:

Now I need to find one in my budget. They all seem to be in central OH!!!


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

HoosierLawnGnome said:


> Well, my wife actually suggested the idea first of getting a snow plow for my ZT several months ago. So the whole snow plow approach was her idea
> 
> As such, I'm in the clear for getting an all-in-one mini-tractor like the Steiner :yahoo:
> 
> Now I need to find one in my budget. They all seem to be in central OH!!!


That's why I qualified "within driving of Ohio."  I do live close to central Ohio and it took me two years to find what I wanted. I also kept an eye out in Mich, Penn, NY and WV where they can be found as I decided If I saw a good deal, I'd rent a trailer and do a road trip.
I think Steiners are great pieces of equipment and I love mine, but my original post was a bit tongue in cheek. Unless you live in Ohio, where dealers/parts are abundant, it would be hard to justify owning one unless you were combining it with the *reel* and snow plow. If I had originally owned a zero and I was going to continue using a rotary, I might keep the zero and look into a blade for it unless you get 6+" of wet snow often.

EDIT: the referrence regarding dealer/parts wasn't meant to imply that Steiners are repair prone (to the contrary.) But it's always best to be cautious than sorry.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

I don't mind driving 

There is (or was) a Steiner dealer in my area - a neighbor who is actually the same guy who sold me my Exmark. He said they quit carrying Steiners as they had problems and were too expensive for most. Recommended getting a tractor for implements. So, there went my one and only local place for service / parts.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

HoosierLawnGnome said:


> I don't mind driving
> 
> There is (or was) a Steiner dealer in my area - a neighbor who is actually the same guy who sold me my Exmark. He said they quit carrying Steiners as they had problems and were too expensive for most. Recommended getting a tractor for implements. So, there went my one and only local place for service / parts.


Then by all means, do consider a Steiner. 

The price of newer Steiners (particularly upon introduction of the 440) and Ventracs has sky-rocketed. IMO foolishly as they are beyond the range of anyone short of a landscaper or government agency. One of my 5 local dealers stopped carrying them for that reason. The biggest problem that I am aware of was with the engines. Mostly with some of the optional diesels being under-powered. Same with some of the low end optional gas engines on the 440. Under-powered, besides the obvious, = overheating and short engine life with the gas engines (the diesels just won't get the job done). Any gas powered 420 or 430 gas is a safe bet. Older Onan/Lexmar 20hp are tops. They have a reputation for 2000+ hours of service life. The only other issue I am aware of is that a few experienced rear hydraulic motor failure. IMO, this was most likely operator error. (Failing to have both front and back in the same gear, or using the emergency brake to stop the tractor). One additional consideration: they are hand and not foot motion control.

Whatever machine you decide to consider (Steiner, JD, Kubota, Simplicity, PowerTrac, I.e. 4wd for plowing) I strongly recommend you do research. Sites like http://www.tractorbynet.com and https://tractorpoint.com/cgi-bin/tractor/forum.pl?category=ART&catname=Articulated%20Tractors can give insight regarding quality of cut, snow plowing capability, performance issues and quality of build from owners and former sales/mechanics. 
I look forward to seeing where you end up.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

Honestly, I'm most interested in quality of cut. I did start asking around and googling reviews, and it seems the most negative feedback was on quality of cut - regarding the normal mower deck. I can't find any feedback on the reel mow cut whatsoever. I want a GOOD cut. And by good cut, I mean a cut lawn nuts think is GOOD - not average joe or the people that ride a mower on average lawns for $20 / hr. If my lawn isn't better than the best golf course around I'll be disappointed.

I can borrow a tractor with PTO from a neighboring farmer for the cost of a giftcard. 

So, I'm back at looking at a triplex - but the Steiner - still would be perfect if it can meet my cut expectations. (VERY HIGH)


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

There's the rub. Quality is subjective. IMO my rotary Steiner deck gives every bit, if not better cut as my Honda HRR 216. Of course that doesn't carry much water if one isn't satisfied with the cut of the HRR. 
I personally think any reel gives a much better cut than any rotary. Like I said the Steiner reel heads are Ransomes of 15 years ago. They were the golf course gold standard then. How they'd match up to a tri-plex electric motor reel of today--got me. A Steiner would be unsurpassed at plowing and the reel attachment should be as good as any Ransomes tri-plex circa late 90s. I would expect any tri-plex to be at least the equal on cut, but unable to do dual duty as a plow. Besides the subjective standard, it would depend on storage space I guess.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

So, I didn't end up pulling the trigger on a Steiner. I think I'll get a better cut from a traditional triplex reel mower. Plus, I need spreading equipment anyways. I think I can get by with a 4 wheeler and triplex better. Leaf mulching is the only unknown. I don't get a lot of leaf litter, but I do like to mulch up what I do get.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

It's none of my business but I think you made the right call!


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

dfw_pilot said:


> It's none of my business but I think you made the right call!


Fun fact #1: Ed Hochuli is also an attorney.

Fun fact #2: Walt Coleman is the only active NFL referee with more tenure (29 years), and he is a 6th generation operator of a family dairy.

For me it's just hard to imagine those guys fly home to a day job the next day. Sorry to derail.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Muscles Hochuli is also a huge sushi fan, eating it at least three times a week. I love it, but can't afford it thrice weekly.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

> I think I can get by with a 4 wheeler and triplex better.


 :thumbup: 
By all means, especially if you've got the space for storage. Plowing with the 4X4 in a heavier snowfall might not be as good, but how often will that happen and the 4x4 has lots of other uses. A triplex that isn't 30 yrs old is bound to have improved modifications. Thanks for letting me dream for a bit.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Keep in mind that tri-plex's are generally designed to mow open spaces with no obstructions and minimal challenges to traction. A trim and surrounds mower ie. A Deere 2653 or Similar would be my first pick for mowing less than perfect terrain. The reel units on those machines are also designed to cut at the 3/4"-2" range which would also be a major advantage.


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