# Helping Bermuda to spread horizontally faster?



## Lawn_newbie

Cutting your grass low will stimulate Bermuda to grow laterally.

Is there anything you can do that would trick the plant into increasing this lateral growth rate? Would putting down more N and cutting every day prompt an increased lateral response?

I am heading to Ace to see if they have a lawn stretcher, should be near the board stretcher.


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## Mightyquinn

Lawn_newbie said:


> Cutting your grass low will stimulate Bermuda to grow laterally.
> 
> Is there anything you can do that would trick the plant into increasing this lateral growth rate? Would putting down more N and cutting every day prompt an increased lateral response?


Yes, it would help the bermuda to spread more rapidly. If you are going to mow everyday, you could put down around a .5lb/K of Nitrogen every week and make sure it's getting plenty of water and it should take off and grow like crazy in every direction.


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## 501Guy

Also, if you're filling in a truly bare spot and the soil has turned to hardpan, moisture swings will be greater. I've found that if I loosen the soil the grass spreads much quicker and water soaks deeper. Hardpan dries out quickly.

If you don't want to loosen the soil, top dress lightly and water for shorter periods of time and more frequently.

Just my two cents.


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## Cory

You can check out my lawn journal but if you don't want to here is the short version. I let crabgrass take over last year, applied prodiamine in February. Bermuda came out of dormancy and this is what I had to work with April 26th, my front yard was about 75% filled in from leveling at that point. 


Been putting roughly 2lbs N per 1k per month on it since then, mowing every 2 days, trying to give it as much water as possible, no irrigation, a couple apps of RGS and AIR-8, core aerated a few times. And this is where it's at now


No magic pill, just a lot of fertilizer, water, and mowing.

If you can mow low with a reel mower that would help tremendously.


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## jonthepain

:thumbup:


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## Lawn_newbie

@Mightyquinn 
@501Guy
@Cory

Thanks for the advice!


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## Movingshrub

You could do more fert than that if you really wanted to and/or split it into more frequent applications.


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## BenC

Here's an interesting read on PGR's and stolon growth. Interestingly, low rates of glyphosate seem to improve stolon growth the most. Reference tables 3, 7, and 8. Looks like, you'd have to put up with some phytotoxicity, but could improve stolon counts and lengths.

*The Effect of Increasing Application Rates of Nine Plant Growth Regulators on the Turf and Stolon Characteristics of Pot-grown 'Patriot' Hybrid Bermudagrass*
http://horttech.ashspublications.org/content/25/3/397.full

Any time I've ever had to deal with glyphosate drift issues I overcame it with irrigation and fertility, so if I were to try this I'd follow any glyphosate applications with irrigation and fertility.


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## ENC_Lawn

Bumping and old thread.

But my new lawn is 30 days post seed.

Anything wrong with spoon feeding .5 pounds per 1,000 square feet every week. @Mightyquinn

I am about to cut it again today for second cut.

Only asking since it's a newly seeded yard and not fully established yet.


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## Mightyquinn

ENC_Lawn said:


> Bumping and old thread.
> 
> But my new lawn is 30 days post seed.
> 
> Anything wrong with spoon feeding .5 pounds per 1,000 square feet every week. @Mightyquinn
> 
> I am about to cut it again today for second cut.
> 
> Only asking since it's a newly seeded yard and not fully established yet.


Is that a half pound of Urea?


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## ENC_Lawn

Mightyquinn said:


> ENC_Lawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bumping and old thread.
> 
> But my new lawn is 30 days post seed.
> 
> Anything wrong with spoon feeding .5 pounds per 1,000 square feet every week. @Mightyquinn
> 
> I am about to cut it again today for second cut.
> 
> Only asking since it's a newly seeded yard and not fully established yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that a half pound of Urea?
Click to expand...

I have right much starter fertilizer left over so I was using that up first.


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## Mightyquinn

That will actually work better! Now, are we talking about .5 lbs of Nitrogen or Fertilizer?


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## ENC_Lawn

Mightyquinn said:


> That will actually work better! Now, are we talking about .5 lbs of Nitrogen or Fertilizer?


.5 pounds of nitrogen per 1,000 square feet of starter fertilizer.

I have about a month supply maybe a little more.

And was thinking of dropping .5 pounds per 1,000 every 7 days. I didn't know if that was too aggressive for a new lawn?


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## Mightyquinn

ENC_Lawn said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> That will actually work better! Now, are we talking about .5 lbs of Nitrogen or Fertilizer?
> 
> 
> 
> .5 pounds of nitrogen per 1,000 square feet of starter fertilizer.
> 
> I have about a month supply maybe a little more.
> 
> And was thinking of dropping .5 pounds per 1,000 every 7 days. I didn't know if that was too aggressive for a new lawn?
Click to expand...

I would go every two weeks and then reevaluate after a month. The grass should be stronger by then and could take a little more.


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## ENC_Lawn

Mightyquinn said:


> ENC_Lawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> That will actually work better! Now, are we talking about .5 lbs of Nitrogen or Fertilizer?
> 
> 
> 
> .5 pounds of nitrogen per 1,000 square feet of starter fertilizer.
> 
> I have about a month supply maybe a little more.
> 
> And was thinking of dropping .5 pounds per 1,000 every 7 days. I didn't know if that was too aggressive for a new lawn?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would go every two weeks and then reevaluate after a month. The grass should be stronger by then and could take a little more.
Click to expand...

 :thumbup:


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## Avalawn T

I have huge bare spots that are pretty hard but no weeds due to putting out Prodiamine. Should I break it up for faster spreading or just wait it out? I've been fertilizing and mowing and it is definitely moving, rain this week should help a lot. I have a old blue bird power rake if I need to break it up. Thanks


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## ENC_Lawn

@Cory

Cory with your established lawn were you fertilizing .5 pounds of nitrogen every week...or 1 pound every 2 weeks?

Thanks


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## Cory

@ENC_Lawn on my front I was doing the same amount to get it to fill in from leveling. I'm currently only doing around 3/4 lbs per month. We haven't had enough rain to be able to push growth this year. There's still a lot that needs to fill in and most of it needs to get thicker but I can't justify paying for enough water to make it happen. Just put down 1lbs N with GreenTRX last night hoping fo a good soaking this week


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## cglarsen

@Cory Lookin nice. What HOC is that?


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## ENC_Lawn

@Cory

When you were fertilizing 2 pounds a month was that .5 pounds weekly or 1 pound every 2 weeks...or etc.

Just curious how you spread out the 2 pounds of nitrogen per month.

Thanks!!!


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## Cory

@ENC_Lawn I was doing 1lbs twice a month, around the 1st and the 15th.

@cglarsen 1.5".


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## AdamA

So based on the amount of N I'm seeing mentioned here, it's not a "bad" thing that I probably went a bit heavy on the SuperJuice Fertilizer this past weekend? (As in around 1 cup/800-1000sq' as opposed to 1500)


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## Lawn_newbie

Just how crazy could you go with this? What if you spoon feed daily via foliar?


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## ENC_Lawn

Movingshrub said:


> You could do more fert than that if you really wanted to and/or split it into more frequent applications.


@Movingshrub

on an established Bermuda lawn...when you say you could do more Fertilizer. What is the #N per 1k that you recommend?

Thanks


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## Movingshrub

ENC_Lawn said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> 
> You could do more fert than that if you really wanted to and/or split it into more frequent applications.
> 
> 
> 
> @Movingshrub
> 
> on an established Bermuda lawn...when you say you could do more Fertilizer. What is the #N per 1k that you recommend?
> 
> Thanks
Click to expand...

The universities seem to consistently recommend 1lb of N per month.

If it's established, I'd stick with their recommendation.

If you've got some atypical requirement where you're trying to push growth, you could apply more N. I did 1lb of N a week for months during a sprigging grow-in. I was cutting every day and that was likely way more N than the plants could use, but I didn't want nitrogen to be the limiting factor. I'm not suggesting you do that for an established yard.


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## ENC_Lawn

@Movingshrub

Interesting. Thanks for the info. I am about 80% or more established on my front lawn renovation.

I am now working on my backyard.
I used .5 pounds of N per 1k on the front...could I try higher amounts than that with the seed....like you did with the Sprigs....or is it different for seed? I am speaking once the seed is germinated good. Say Day 30 or so...roughly speaking.

Also...I'm still "learning a lot" from the forum about fertilizing and etc.

I understand there is a diminishing return on Nitrogen with Bermuda...but how hard is it to Burn Bermuda with too much Nitrogen....or is burning more a matter of not watering the Fast Release Fertilizer in correctly?

I think I remember reading that Bermuda could handle very high amounts of N per week. Not saying it was beneficial and it could cause other problems...along with it being expensive...but from the standpoint of burning the grass and killing the grass is there a certain N per poun per 1k I should stay under?


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## Movingshrub

Stick with your existing rate. Best thing you can do is cut it more often.


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## flynavy812

This might be complete bro science, but I use this tool and just til the patchy areas. Loosens the soil and kind of pisses off the runners in my pea brain.

Not sure if any science supports it but I feel my grass is filling in very fast and it's super fun to watch. Anything to back up this theory?


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## lucas287

flynavy812 said:


> This might be complete bro science, but I use this tool and just til the patchy areas. Loosens the soil and kind of pisses off the runners in my pea brain.
> 
> Not sure if any science supports it but I feel my grass is filling in very fast and it's super fun to watch. Anything to back up this theory?


Hmm, what the heck is that thing??  seems plausible! Hardpan = slow spread rate. Aerates the soil, lets the stolons tack, etc...


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## Jacob_Lyles1994

flynavy812 said:


> This might be complete bro science, but I use this tool and just til the patchy areas. Loosens the soil and kind of pisses off the runners in my pea brain.
> 
> Not sure if any science supports it but I feel my grass is filling in very fast and it's super fun to watch. Anything to back up this theory?


Pete with GCI Turf on YouTube redid a Bermuda soccer field and used an attachment on his Ventrac that was basically a huge one of these. His reasoning was very similar. He said the Bermuda will spread into the bare areas way faster after using it than they do with the hard soil.


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## flynavy812

@lucas287 They sell them at Lowe's. It's a Corona multi purpose garden tool, 30.00. It's solid as hell and one of my favorite tools to date. I used it to loosen up the soil after I seeded because water started compacting it. I definitely recommend it.


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## Movingshrub

I've used that cultivator as well, but it was when I was filling in problem areas of my PRG overseed. Sometime those are called a garden weasel.

@ENC_Lawn it's hard to overdue N for Bermuda, so long as it's probably irrigated into the soil. What N source are you using?


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## Avalawn T

I've been following and already asked if it would be a better idea to use the garden weasel to break up my prem barrier in hard bare spots and deal with weeds later or wait it out to fill in. Any advice?


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## Movingshrub

Avalawn T said:


> I've been following and already asked if it would be a better idea to use the garden weasel to break up my prem barrier in hard bare spots and deal with weeds later or wait it out to fill in. Any advice?


Is your grass type TTTF or Bermuda?
If Bermuda, leave it alone. Bermuda will go across a sidewalk given the chance.
If TTTF, try the cool season section, and my guess is, leave it alone and overseed later in the year once temps drop.


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## Avalawn T

My backyard is common Bermuda I'm trying to fill in this year. I have big bare spots from preventing the crabgrass that usually takes over every year. Thanks for the response. I've been plugging like crazy just seems like a slow go. I have a power rake and was thinking about using that. I just dont want to undo all the weed preventing if it was going to fill in anyway.


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## LawnRat

I had very little grass (~20%) in the beginning of the year. I applied prodiamine at 0.4oz rate in the sandy soil front lawn but left the back yard mostly unprotected. No post-M's were used on either as I didn't want to stunt runner growth.

Results: Front yard has been filling in very slowly, still many bare spots with no growth. Weak root system (lots of clubbing) on new growth that is very susceptible to fungus. Untreated back yard has filled in 80% and in some areas the grass has started to choke out the weeds. New runners look healthier than in the front and roots are long and strong. Was confident enough to apply some MSM Turf to a test area (1m) last night. Front is not ready for post-m yet.

I noticed the runners move through weedy areas faster than bare areas. I'm not sure if it's because the weeds provide some shade and reduce evaporation, the pre-m barrier is less concentrated in those areas or because the stolons are actively running to find more light. These runners may be mostly covered in weeds but they are there, and growing, just waiting for a chance to poke through.

It's a learning experience for me so I'm doing things different in different areas, keeping notes and seeing what works and what doesn't. I am about to start converting about 4m of overgrown weeds in a lot next door to grass. I'm in no rush so my plan is to just throw down a few pieces of sod (~10?), spaced very widely around the lot, and do nothing but mow it and fertilize the sod. No pre-m or post-m. I bet it will fill in over a few years without micromanaging it to death (literally).

I have St. Aug but I'd think many of my observations would also apply to other grass types.


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## Avalawn T

@LawnRat Thank you that is exactly the info I was looking for. I'm going to break up half of it and do a comparison.


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