# Racecar Engine



## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

After a massive thread hijack over in warm season, I saw this "other hobbies" and thought I's post up for the gearheads...

Here's the short history:
I have a 1999 Trans Am. Took the original 5.7 up to 538HP, but the motor was going through a quart of oil every 200 miles, so I decommissioned it in 2018. Replaced it with a 7.0. Mathematically a 429, but it was based off the LS7. IN November of 2019, I then upgraded the heads and cam to try to hit 700 HP to the rear tires. but on the seconds start up, it threw a pushrod, spun a roller lifter, and put metal all over the engine. On tear-down, I found out I got screwed on the motor. The bores were .040 out of taper, badly scratched, the piston skirts were badly scratched. The crank had cut off wheel nicks in it, likely because it had previously siezed up and the bearings had to be cut off. Had already been polished .010 under. BUT - I also found that the block itself is a very rare production racing LS7 block. Kind of a unicorn block deal. So that's good.

Fast forward:
I sent the block to Race Engine Development out in California to have the sleeves replaced with Darton Dry sleeves. And then punched it out to 4.185. Custom JE pistons, Molnar crank and rods, Mamo Motorsports heads, Cam motion solid roller cam, 2" primary headers and dual 3" exhaust. Electric water pump. Vacuum pump. Tried to leave no turn unstoned. I'll throw some pics on at the end of the post. The short block is fully assembled. The cam is degreed in and I spent last night measuring for pushrods. Enjoy the pics, if motors is your thing...

Here is the engine block after being resleeved: 




This was a lifter bore that had to be bushed due to the broken lifter:


These sleeves are so hard, the cylinders had to be diamond honed, but what a tremendous job:


Here's a look up the block's skirt


Here's a couple of shots of the heads. First one shows how big the intake valve is relative to a AA battery:


This is inside the intake port. Absolutely sensational port work. And look at how much of that valve you van see from the port. That's power:


Here's the heads from the top:


here is the bottom end getting assembled:


Here she is - cam installed and degreed, and ready for the top end assembly:


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## BobLovesGrass (Jun 13, 2020)

There are so many crap performance shops out there, your story about a high end engine being garbage is all too common. A lot of what I saw when I was into cars is young dumb kids praising work they couldn't honestly evaluate and reputations being built on that mad a friendly voice on the other end of the phone.

Remember one case where a guy posted "glamour shots" of cylinder heads, these particular heads had a little flat shelf that was about .025-.03" recessed from the deck so if that pad was machined you knew the cut on the heads was milled .03"ish. Well on these supposed top shelf ported heads the pad was in machined on one end and machined on the other so milled crooked end to end, and there were 80 post about how great they looked with nobody actually seeing the compression variation this engine would have front to back.

I don't play with cars anymore, maybe once the kids are older. I love the learning and testing aspects of it 10 years ago I had a naturally aspirated 96 Impala that ran 11.5 in the quarter. Was a true street car and I didn't want to put a rollbar in it due to street safety concerns, other stuff came up in life and it is an incomplete pile of parts in the garage since.

Please keep sharing, I am sure I am not the only one with a forgotten project I could be inspired to revive.


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

@Darth_V8r I'm drooling man!! Sucks that you were screwed on the LS7 originally, but it all worked out in the end.

All through the t-56 too? what are you thinking for an intake manifold? I'd suggest watching Richard Holdeners channel on YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8uf_zVTV63l1-uRSx6XbnQ/videos so much great stuff here!


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

I also bet that's a massive cam lol do you know the specs?


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

BobLovesGrass said:


> There are so many crap performance shops out there, your story about a high end engine being garbage is all too common. A lot of what I saw when I was into cars is young dumb kids praising work they couldn't honestly evaluate and reputations being built on that mad a friendly voice on the other end of the phone.
> 
> Remember one case where a guy posted "glamour shots" of cylinder heads, these particular heads had a little flat shelf that was about .025-.03" recessed from the deck so if that pad was machined you knew the cut on the heads was milled .03"ish. Well on these supposed top shelf ported heads the pad was in machined on one end and machined on the other so milled crooked end to end, and there were 80 post about how great they looked with nobody actually seeing the compression variation this engine would have front to back.
> 
> ...


You're not wrong. I seen one thread where a guy posted up all this great work on his heads, and it was a few dozen posts in when somebody finally said, "Looks as cast to me, I don't see any finish work at all"

I lucked out on this build. I made a friend who used to own a race engine shop, and he has tons of connections. To put into perspective, Steve at RED who did the sleeving - owns the patent on the process he uses to resleeve engines. Darton - the manufacturer of the sleeves sends their blocks to him to do. it's his core business. The only reason he did mine was because of my friend Scott. It was actually Steve who noticed I have a unicorn block, which might actually be more valuable than the rest of the engine.

Tony Mamo, the guy who did my cylinder heads, did all the actual research for the heads company AFR (AirFlow Research) for decades and then started his own company.

The machine shop that actually did all the final honing, etc, was connected with Hoyt Grimes and with Proline. Here again, the only reason they did my engine was Scott. They were building seven Baja 502 motors and worked mine in.

The Trans Am its going into went [email protected] on the original 5.7. Then it went 10.1 on the 7.0, and I got tossed, because I also don't want a roll cage. This new motor is going to be something else though. I expect i'll get banned. And if I do, I'll wear that as a badge of honor!


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

lucas287 said:


> @Darth_V8r I'm drooling man!! Sucks that you were screwed on the LS7 originally, but it all worked out in the end.
> 
> All through the t-56 too? what are you thinking for an intake manifold? I'd suggest watching Richard Holdeners channel on YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8uf_zVTV63l1-uRSx6XbnQ/videos so much great stuff here!


Yes, it's a T56. I sent mine to RPM speed about three years ago when i realized where this was heading. All cryo treated gears, carbon blocker rings, etc. Trans can handle 650 ft lbs. Funny though, I'm actually expecting the motor to outpower the transmission, so I might be looking for a T56 magnum before too long.

Driveshaft is carbon fiber for weight and harmonics/noise. Rear is a fabricated 9" with 4.30 gears. Running hoosier QTP's for tires.

Intake is a special deal. MSD atomic airforce hand ported by Tony Mamo, the guy who did the heads. it's the best intake I can find that will fit under the cowl of the TA. it sticks out to cylinders 3,4. i'd have to cut the windshield to run one of the bigger carb style intakes, but I do know they make power.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

lucas287 said:


> I also bet that's a massive cam lol do you know the specs?


The cam is 256/270-114+4 at .050. Add 46 degrees to get .006, so 302/316. Lift is .747 intake and .729 exhaust.


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

Darth_V8r said:


> Intake is a special deal. MSD atomic airforce hand ported by Tony Mamo, the guy who did the heads. it's the best intake I can find that will fit under the cowl of the TA. it sticks out to cylinders 3,4. i'd have to cut the windshield to run one of the bigger carb style intakes, but I do know they make power.


Forgot about the tight clearance with those cars! I once helped a buddy change the plugs on his WS6 lol what a pain.

awesome! I'm sure the focus is on high end power since the displacement will make plenty of torque down low for such a light car


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

Darth_V8r said:


> lucas287 said:
> 
> 
> > I also bet that's a massive cam lol do you know the specs?
> ...


That is some lift right there!! Wow! pretty tight PTV clearance with so much CR?


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

I've got pretty generous valve reliefs in the pistons. They have just enough dome to make up for the cc's removed in the valve reliefs.

it always surprises people, but the lift on the cam isn't usually the problem. It's the duration. When the cam is at full lift, the piston is 2 inches away. It's the overlap when both valves are slightly open and the piston is at TDC between exhaust and intake stroke -- that's the problem. So the trick is the reliefs need to clear the valves at low lift. Smaller cam, less relief needed.

This one, on the other hand, they had to engineer the pistons to clear this cam.



> I'm sure the focus is on high end power since the displacement will make plenty of torque down low for such a light car


That's exactly right. A 440 will make torque even by accident. I'm setting it up for peak power at 7000 and shift just before 8000. Should be loud enough to hear for about a mile and a half at redline.


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

Darth_V8r said:


> I've got pretty generous valve reliefs in the pistons. They have just enough dome to make up for the cc's removed in the valve reliefs.
> 
> it always surprises people, but the lift on the cam isn't usually the problem. It's the duration. When the cam is at full lift, the piston is 2 inches away. It's the overlap when both valves are slightly open and the piston is at TDC between exhaust and intake stroke -- that's the problem. So the trick is the reliefs need to clear the valves at low lift. Smaller cam, less relief needed.
> 
> ...


Good point about PTV clearance and duration, makes much more sense than looking at lift alone. And honestly, that's not THAT big of a cam considering the displacement. There's plenty of LS1 guys running MS3/4 cams that have 23x/24x duration. Then again that's probably SBE with less than 10:1 CR.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

lucas287 said:


> Good point about PTV clearance and duration, makes much more sense than looking at lift alone. And honestly, that's not THAT big of a cam considering the displacement. *There's plenty of LS1 guys running MS3/4 cams that have 23x/24x duration. Then again that's probably SBE with less than 10:1 CR.*


Yes there are. that's the reason a lot of them lose to guys running 227-ish cams with 11.5 compression.

And you're right. It'll chop, but it won't be super insane with the displacement there to absorb the cam. I'm betting I'll be able to put it in fourth at 30 mph still. Compression helps tame a cam also, and I'm running 12.7, so all in all, it should drive decent - at least for a race car - while still making power.


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

Darth_V8r said:


> lucas287 said:
> 
> 
> > Good point about PTV clearance and duration, makes much more sense than looking at lift alone. And honestly, that's not THAT big of a cam considering the displacement. *There's plenty of LS1 guys running MS3/4 cams that have 23x/24x duration. Then again that's probably SBE with less than 10:1 CR.*
> ...


Cam events are such a science and your average Joe Blow gearhead just doesn't get it. When you start talking in terms of dynamic compression ratio, intake valve opening, centerline, lobe separation, you can literally see their eyes start to glaze over. They think chop equals go lol. that same buddy of mine with his WS6 had a massive cam. Sounded damn good but ran like a 3 cyl geo. At the time I had a 03 Ram QC HEMI with a small cam and good supporting bolt-ons... he barely had me in the 1/8th.

I'll always have an affinity for muscle, but I'm all about "sweet street" now. I've had my loud, choppin', raucous cars all as daily drivers and I don't think I'd ever do it again. My DD is a '16 Silverado High Country L86/8L90 4wd. E85 conversion and that's it. Bone stock otherwise. In 4auto, it's quite a beast from stoplight to stoplight. Sub 5 second 0-60, too scared to go 1320 with the stock driveshaft but it should be low to mid 13s. Still average about 20 mpg.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

lucas287 said:


> Cam events are such a science and your average Joe Blow gearhead just doesn't get it. When you start talking in terms of dynamic compression ratio, intake valve opening, centerline, lobe separation, you can literally see their eyes start to glaze over. They think chop equals go lol. that same buddy of mine with his WS6 had a massive cam. Sounded damn good but ran like a 3 cyl geo. At the time I had a 03 Ram QC HEMI with a small cam and good supporting bolt-ons... he barely had me in the 1/8th.
> 
> I'll always have an affinity for muscle, but I'm all about "sweet street" now. I've had my loud, choppin', raucous cars all as daily drivers and I don't think I'd ever do it again. My DD is a '16 Silverado High Country L86/8L90 4wd. E85 conversion and that's it. Bone stock otherwise. In 4auto, it's quite a beast from stoplight to stoplight. Sub 5 second 0-60, too scared to go 1320 with the stock driveshaft but it should be low to mid 13s. Still average about 20 mpg.


I'll give you a for instance -- my wife's car is a 07 vette. Still stock. My plan is to take the heads from my old 538 HP 5.7, put them on the vette. Then run a mild 222/228-117+3. Will hardly chop at all, be easy to drive, no bucking, and I bet it will destroy a lot of the overcammed street cars you see. Plus instantaneous throttle response. My goal is that the only thing she would notice would be that the car is faster. For a driver, that's my kind of machine.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Got the heads on, pushrods measured for proper length, and the fuel pump and fuel pump wiring upgraded over the weekend...

Now, the proper way to do the fuel pump is to remove the exaust, driveshaft, drop the rear axle, heat shields, and then the gas tank all while trying to rip a bunch of hoses you cannot see. Or, you can cut an access panel in the trunk in about ten minutes with a good cutoff wheel. 


Upgradeed wiring and connectors for higher amps for bigger pump


THis is the car -- well, about 64% of the car


Heads are on and torqued down


Pushrod lengths are measured and ordered.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

New Hydraulic release bearing for the clutch - sometimes called slave cylinder. Old one came out in four pieces, and I cannot find the fourth piece. New one has no plastic parts and is very rugged:


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

I got the clutch installed and centered while it's on the hoist. Cannot use the stand anymore, since the clutch is in the way. Also, pulled apart all the heat shielding to run a new 40-amp circuit for the fuel pump. Picture below shows were it is coming out in the engine bay.


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

enjoyed it! not tech enough to fully appreciate but she looks massive. hope to hear it soon?


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Busy Weekend! Had a friend come visit from Virgina who helped out. Got the engine in the car:


Got the transmission installed, which was a bear. Had to remove and reassemble the clutch, because I was slightly out of alignment, so the input shaft would not engage the pilot bearing. but it's in now!


Got the driveshaft installed, exhaust system hooked up, and all the crossmembers in position:


Got the intake and throttle in place, all fueling connections, and all electrical connections, minus what was waiting on the last of the hardware, and the vacuum stuff in the back of the engine. This pic is very busy, but it's the way of life in a modern car:


Here is with all the accessories installed - balancer, alternator, electric water pump, tucked in a lot o the wiring, etc. Getting very close, but hit a snag, so I had to stop here until a new tool arrives tomorrow: 


Here is the car, sitting on the ground. Starting to look more aggressive with the extra 500 lbs loading up the suspension and raking the stance a bit:


Celebratory drink. Lemonade, vodka, and frozen blueberries:


Cheers!


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## BobLovesGrass (Jun 13, 2020)

Did you upgrade the axle yet? T56+power = scrap 7.5" axle that should never have been used in that car.
For those not familiar, the 7.5" used in the f-body is an "S10" axle when the 1/2ton truck axle would have fit and been plenty strong to take the car into the 9s at the track.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Well, funny story there. The short answer is yes, I have a 9" rear end with a Strange aluminum center section and micropolished gears. Back when the car was a high ten second car, I broke the rear axle into pieces. I also twisted the driveshaft at the splines AND twisted the transmission output shaft.

I had to bump up to a built T56 to handle the torque and impact loading from the previous engine. I went ahead and did a carbon fiber driveshaft, so if it breaks again, it will just be a broom and clean the bottom of the car with no risk of injury. I built the rear axle for 1200 lbs of torque, so I would have plenty of room to grow. Especially since I don't expect to actually hit 4-digit power.

@BobLovesGrass you might also know this, but most of the hydraulics issues with the F body LS1 clutch line are also a result of the axle. GM found out at the eleventh hour and 58 minutes on the test track that the driver could "decide" to break the axle whenever he wanted. So they put this restrictor orifice in the clutch line so that when people dump the clutch, it can only engage but so fast, which prevents the issue. But then you get clutch slip, so guys drill out the orifice, and then hear we go. They also programmed the 4L60 to basically sacrifice itself to spare the rear axle. Very noble. How much different that platform would have been even if they had just put the 8.5" S10 cyclone rear axle in there.


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## BobLovesGrass (Jun 13, 2020)

Pretty sure the only 10second b-body(Impala/Caprice) I knew of breaking the 8.5" was a very aggressive driver with a T-56

Was another Impala chasing 8s at 4500lbs with a 4L60E, he could strip the pinion at will.
http://www.superchevy.com/features/ghtp-1108-1996-chevy-impala
I didn't keep in touch but I found some information that a few years ago he had it down to 9.2 at 157mph before he gave up on the 8.5. Then went with a Moser Fab 9 and bent that trying to launch hard........

I am familiar with the workarounds GM used to keep parts alive. Heck my 2005 Sierra has a stronger I believe second gear servo than my 90s Caprice and Roadmasters did. The 4L60E base engineering was done in the 80s when a V8 only made 150hp, heck I think the 454SS of the early 90s was only 230hp 385tq :lol: . The 6l80E needed to be made a decade earlier, the 700R4 architecture was used too long.
My 11.5 second 4200lbs car had reworked 4L60E, but in stock they left something to be desired. I considered the T-56 but would have just broken other crap.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

The thing about GM that frustrates me so much is the same company that built the LS1 can't make a decent window motor...

Sounds like you got some track time yourself?

Those 80's motors were so bad. When the series2 3800 came out in the 93 F cars, it was as fast as the V8's from the 80's. Hell, that engine was supposed to die way before it did, but it was so good GM had nothing to replace it with. When my 99 TA still had the 5.7 in it, I destroyed the 455 SD TA's from the early 70's. Embarrassingly bad for them. So much of modern cars' ability to go faster is the chassis. We're living in the golden age of performance right now.

I remember when 12 second cars were fast.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

that car is badass! I loved the 90's SS impala. they were fun rides.


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## bradleymichael (Jun 3, 2020)

Darth_V8r said:


> The thing about GM that frustrates me so much is the same company that built the LS1 can't make a decent window motor...
> 
> Man I thought it was just me! My first car was a 99 Camaro, just the V6... both window motors went out... Second car was a 2000 Camaro SS... both window motors went out on it as well!
> 
> Guess they spent all their time engineering the LS1? :lol:


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## BobLovesGrass (Jun 13, 2020)

I spent a lot of time playing with the mid 90s b-bodies had a 96 Caprice that went 11.5 NA driving 150miles to the track and swapping on slicks.
It was fun, and expensive, still have remnants of the car, was going to update the engine, bought a bigger house, had kid, built a garage for my hobby, lost a job.................found a career but in the time lost with raising kids and being unemployed for a year playing Mr. Mom I am not all that interested in wrenching anymore. In 2015 I bought a Chevy Sports Sedan enjoyed it when there was no salt on the roads. Ended up trading it for a 2014 Tesla P85 which has the torque and response I always wanted without the noise and maintenance of a modified car.
I might reengage the old Caprice project once the kids are older and I can use it as . a lesson.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

I got my wife a 07 vette used a few years back. We call it the slow car, lol. I also have a 82 square body S10 that I swapped in a LS2. That one was a tight fit, but it's a fun truck. I left it stock, so it kinda runs out of oomph at 5800 rpm - just like the vette actually. The crank and rods from the LS-428 might end up in the S10 as a 408 after I've had some time to enjoy no non-running cars..


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Fired it up last night! first start went pretty decently. warmed up then killed. Had a misfire, which I traced to bad spark wires, so I'll be replacing those. They were suspect when I put them in, but I wanted to start the car. No mechanical issues, which is good news! No video, as I needed constant attention to keep it running with all eight not working.


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## BobLovesGrass (Jun 13, 2020)

At least plug wires are easy on that, at least compared to the gen2 LT1s those are a nightmare.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Six of them are easy. 6,8 kind of suck, unless you rip out the AC box. New wires should arrive tomorrow, so hopefully some more fun tomorrow.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Car is running great! I cannot post a video here, so I'll link to it on LS1Tech where my build thread is.

If the link doesn't take you directly there, it is post 1198 in that thread:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/1926031-projekt-septimus-soon-lazarus.html#post20279344


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Took it out to load up the rings. HIt 260 within five minutes of starting it up. I vented the radiator and a huge air bubble burped out. So I thought ok, it was just air. temp dropped to 210. So I ran it hard a couple more pulls, and it was back at 260. Pulled over again. This time, i found a loose ground. It was my electric water pump. Grounded the water pump, cut the car on, and the pump started working, the fans kicked on, and life was good. Did ten more hard pulls, got to where I could park it. Looked at my tuning logs, and my fueling errors were for the most part under 5%. So it's really doing well now.

I pulled a plug, and it looks pretty decent. Maybe a tad rich, but I wanted that anyway for startup to not burn off any oil. After nine months of the the car not runnnig, it feels really good to drive it again.


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## bradleymichael (Jun 3, 2020)

Darth_V8r said:


> Took it out to load up the rings. HIt 260 within five minutes of starting it up. I vented the radiator and a huge air bubble burped out. So I thought ok, it was just air. temp dropped to 210. So I ran it hard a couple more pulls, and it was back at 260. Pulled over again. This time, i found a loose ground. It was my electric water pump. Grounded the water pump, cut the car on, and the pump started working, the fans kicked on, and life was good. Did ten more hard pulls, got to where I could park it. Looked at my tuning logs, and my fueling errors were for the most part under 5%. So it's really doing well now.
> 
> I pulled a plug, and it looks pretty decent. Maybe a tad rich, but I wanted that anyway for startup to not burn off any oil. After nine months of the the car not runnnig, it feels really good to drive it again.


Videos or it didn't happen! LOL

Good job though, I miss my 2000 Camaro SS. It's nothing like what you are building but man was it fun!


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

LOL. I cannot attach videos. But if you go up a couple of posts, that link is to where I posted the vids on the car forum where the build is documented.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Was hoping to dyno this week, but I kept finding little nagging issues. Actually found a dead cylinder. Which is funny since the new motor was already stronger than the motor it replaced. After this evening, it should be running at full power and ready to rock for dyno going into next week. Should be a fun few days...


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## BobLovesGrass (Jun 13, 2020)

There are always a few things that pop up. If an engine install went too well i might fear it scattering on the dyno because something has to go wrong at some time.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Dyno scheduled for thursday morning. I pulled it apart to diagnose the dead cylinder. cranking compression was a bit low due to the rings still not seated. The compression was 180 psi. should be closer to 254 once it seals up. But all eight are right there, so that wasn't it. THe next step was to noid light the injector connectors to rule out the ECM and harness, and when I pulled it apart, number 8 wasn't even connected! The harness was in a bind. I put some 3-inch extenders in to give the harness some wiggle room, hooked everything back up. STILL got a dead cylinder, which really pissed me off.

Until I got to the front to watch it running and say number one spark wire arcing on the brake lines. I had forgot to hook that last wire up, lol. Running great, actually running cooler now.

And then it started raining, so I haven't been able to get any test hits in, but it should be scary now.

I actually did have an opportunity to get it on the street, but I had a rash of minor auto problems to correct, and by the time they were all fixed, the roads were staying consistently wet, which is a recipe for disaster on a car like this.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Darth_V8r said:


> Car is running great! I cannot post a video here, so I'll link to it on LS1Tech where my build thread is.
> 
> If the link doesn't take you directly there, it is post 1198 in that thread:
> 
> https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/1926031-projekt-septimus-soon-lazarus.html#post20279344


Sweet sounds - awesome.


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## BobLovesGrass (Jun 13, 2020)

On the driving in the rain, i drove my car in snow a few times 1300cfm throttle body was like an on/off switch and the 3800stall didn't help.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Car made 651/548. Dyno owner told me his reads low and I would pick up 40 just using a newer dyno with smaller rollers. I dyno'd on bias ply slicks, so that had an effect also. I had one plug getting badly oil fouled, so that figures in also. I need to find that issue and correct it. Driver side head might need to comeback off, but I'm hoping against hope it does not.

by the numbers, the engine is well over 800 at the crank, so I'm really happy.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Final numbers after ditching the bias ply for some radials:


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