# Timemaster vs Turfmaster.........



## billjr (Feb 12, 2018)

Hello all, 70 y/o homeowner who would like to purchase one of these and would like recommendations. I currently cut about an acre (completely flat and never in rain) with a heavy JD X485. I'm tired of the tracks it leaves in the front lawn, and am limited in using different patterns. I did try using my older JD 14SB (21") last year (did a great job), but that takes a lot of time. I would like to know if anyone has any current information or recommendations on either the Timemaster or Turfmaster. I've read a ton of posts on them (including here) but a lot are older posts. My first thought is to go with the Turfmaster for it's durability and my history of trying to buy the best I can afford at the time. One thing that kind of dissuades me is the engine. I think I read the new Timemasters have a larger engine albeit B&S vs Kawasaki. Is the turfmaster under powered, that is the same engine as used on several 21" mowers. I also prefer the Turfmaster drive control as it is very similar to my older JD, the "Personal Pace" would take a little getting use to, but I'm not that old, lol. Anyway that's pretty much it. I would appreciate any opinions or first hand knowledge on these 2 mowers. Thanks for any help anyone may have to offer.

Bill


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

Neither. I own a turfmaster for my commercial business. It was the worst mistake yet out of all my equipment purchases. Constant issue with the belt, pulleys, and transmissions. The engine is under powered to run twin blades. It can't mulch if the lawn is remotely wet/damp. Essentially I have to bag everything for it to work properly. However I mow Bermuda and Zoysia at 2". It could possible work better at 4" but I don't mow at that height. It also weighs 160lbs. My 21" commercial Toro's are actually more efficient do to its lighter weight and maneuverability. The Timemaster is no different. Run as fast as you can away from these machines.

What is your max price? You can usually find used 36" walk behinds on CL and other forums for close to the same price as a new turfmaster.

Another option is this https://www.lowes.com/pd/Worldlawn-...Lawn-Mower-with-Mulching-Capability/999977432

Or

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Worldlawn-...ve-Gas-Lawn-Mower-with-Honda-Engine/999977430

I just picked this up last week a 2017 with 21 hours for $4500


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

Also check out the lawnsite.com forum for more info on the trufmaster/ timemaster. There is a thread 160 pages long that details the pros and cons of these machines.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

You can check out a review of that World Lawn mower at The Lawn Care Nut on you tube. Allyn Hanes the Lawn Care Nut
did not care for it but if it were me I would be looking at different criteria. To me it looked like a great mower. He auctioned or raffled it off. They sent it to him for free. :mrgreen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrMLlHfJvXk

He also reviews the Time Master. He is a self confessed "Toro "guy. I would take the World Lawn in a second.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f60dDi0zAGg

I wish I had a Deere X485


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## billjr (Feb 12, 2018)

high-leverage....gene_stl.........Thank you both for your responses. I guess I'm not too far of because I did see both of those videos on youtube. The World Lawn did look good to me too, I think I'll look more into that now. As mentioned LC Nut didn't seem to keen on the World Lawn but liked the Timemaster, again as you said, as did he, he's a Toro man. Well I think I'll try and find out if any of the Lowes around here have a WL on display. It's definitely a great price for what it looks like, plus the 10% disabled vet discount makes it even more desirable. Again ty both for taking your time with such thorough responses, I really arrpeciate it.

Bill


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

Bill is there anything you can do, tire wise , that would allow you to continue to use the Deere tractor. Perhaps some larger wider tires? I mean at your age (I am right behind you) isn't it better to ride than to walk. I moved to a house with a big lot just over a year ago and I bought a Hustler 54" zero turn to mow with. I previously used the Scotts Murray in my avatar but its' deck, won't go high enough to go over my mole hills nor does it do very well on my sloped front yard. 
I was looking very hard at a Deere X739 which is similar to yours (4WD and 4WS) and kind of wish I had done that but Deere really charges for that , although they will loan you the entire amount for years and years at no additional interest. It still comes to close to $20K . But I think a 4WD would do better on my hills. You don't have to deal with that so a big wide zero turn would be great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3tIzW4ab7Q

Notice they have an old geez driving it and changing blades. Those marketing guys are sharp. 
I have been very well pleased with the Hustler although it is hard to drive on the slopes. But it has not torn things up much. And the mowing deck can lift very high.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

The X4/5/7 Series Tractors from Deere are already on 26x12-12 rubber. (Larger than 95% of garden tractors and most ZTR's) You'd likely need to figure out duals if you needed additional flotation. But unless you have the 60" deck on that X485, it's not going to be a good option.

http://www.mytractorforum.com/182-miller-tire-co/223789-dual-wheel-spacers.html

1 acre (unless it's very open layout) is a small playpen for the X485 and similar sized machines. If you don't mind walking, a 36 or 48" HYDRO (not belt) driven walk-behind is by far the most maneuverable option in tight areas. Another good option would be to downsize the tractor a bit and look into a 4-Wheel-Steer option like the Deere X3 and X5 series offer. 4WS is available in the X7 series (comparable to the X485) too but still a big machine for 1 acre with tight areas. Also 4WS is much gentler on turf than conventional or Zero-Turn steering. So if you're undesireable marks are tire marks at the end of your turns and rings around beds/trees, a 4WS machine would solve that issue completely. If you have tire marks from running the same pattern all the time, core aerating more frequently with an annual top-dressing should keep that in check.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

I was presuming that the World Lawn mowers were hydros because of how big and heavy they look. They are self propelled but those models are not hydros. They do have them as do many other brands. You could but a sulkey behind a walk behind too. (You didn't really say you minded walking  )

My first lawn tractor was a Craftsman four wheel steer built by Noma. It was maneuverable (I had no previous experience to compare it against) but there was one trick it would do to me that could be annoying. There was one spot in my old yard where a chain link fence cornered at an acute angle and with a down slope. It was able to get itself stuck there (especially when the grass was wet) to an extent that I had to get off it and push it out or even get a son to help me. Pretty quickly I learned "not to do that" but it was the temptation of the tight steering. It was a Lawn Trac not a Garden. 12hp single cylinder. When I bought the house next door , the Zoysia grass there, broke the hanger brackets on the mower deck, which were very light gauge. That was when I bought the Orange monster. It could always back itself out of that spot.

The Hustler Flip up comes in a 48" and they have other ZTs down to 36".
I wish I had a Deere X739 Four wheel drive AND four wheel steering! Gimme gimme 
What MasterMech says makes sense. Maybe what you need to do is keep your tractor and buy an aerator.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

gene_stl said:


> What MasterMech says makes sense. Maybe what you need to do is keep your tractor and buy an aerator.


Hmmm. Small 3pt mounted aerator on the X485 would be flippin' SWEET! You could realistically mow and aerate simultaneously. Of course there are good tow-behinds but the X4/5/7 series is 3pt (and technically PTO) capable. Albeit those are two very expensive options, especially the rear PTO kit.

I guess the real question here is, what kind of "tracks" is the X485 leaving behind? Are we talking about ruts or just dark green tire tracks caused by ground compaction?


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

Yeah a Tow Behind. That's the ticket!  I had not even thought about one of those because the orange monster probably isn't man enough to pull one. (The mechanic that put a new transmission in it said it WAS tough enough for ground engaging but I think the transmission life would be very short.)

I actually did have my eye on THIS critter.
www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/150613848981880
You could get something like that. I am hesitant to buy such a thing although maybe the orange monster could pull it if I pulled the deck out. (The Deeres have the drive over deck. Sweet!) Maybe the Hustler could pull it.

Simpler aerators are available on Craigs List and FB marketplace everyday and practically for free. I think I lot of people buy them and then don't bother using them or their tractors aren't up to the task. Which your X485 absolutely is. (I want one!)


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## billjr (Feb 12, 2018)

First thank everyone for all your valuable information and suggestions. The tracks I refer to on my OP are actually 2 fold. First I have deep green stripping from the tires, and second browned out areas from the deck getting closer to the ground as the tire tracks pack down more over the years. I actually tries a 36" Bobcat walk behind gear drive last year which did a great job. I enjoy the exercise so walking is not an issue. The real issue I had with the BobCat was the thumb controls on the handles. I had looked at the Toro T-Bar, but went with the Bobcat which didn't work out. I get different opinions on the TBar system not being able to turn as sharply as the pistol grips. And than of course there's the 36" Hydro's out there. I'm glad I started looking early this year, have to do something different this year to get rid of the constant and worsening tracks. So again I thank you all for your help as I continue reading tons of information until I can maybe see something in person locally or find something here I'm not real familiar with. I should quickly mention that I can continue cutting the back half acre, so I'm actually looking at using the new machine for just the front 1/2 + acre. I'll definitely keep the X485 as I've had that since new and use it for plowing in the winter. Thanks again for your continued help.

Bill


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

billjr said:


> First thank everyone for all your valuable information and suggestions. The tracks I refer to on my OP are actually 2 fold. First I have deep green stripping from the tires, and second browned out areas from the deck getting closer to the ground as the tire tracks pack down more over the years. I actually tries a 36" Bobcat walk behind gear drive last year which did a great job. I enjoy the exercise so walking is not an issue. The real issue I had with the BobCat was the thumb controls on the handles. I had looked at the Toro T-Bar, but went with the Bobcat which didn't work out. I get different opinions on the TBar system not being able to turn as sharply as the pistol grips. And than of course there's the 36" Hydro's out there. I'm glad I started looking early this year, have to do something different this year to get rid of the constant and worsening tracks. So again I thank you all for your help as I continue reading tons of information until I can maybe see something in person locally or find something here I'm not real familiar with. I should quickly mention that I can continue cutting the back half acre, so I'm actually looking at using the new machine for just the front 1/2 + acre. I'll definitely keep the X485 as I've had that since new and use it for plowing in the winter. Thanks again for your continued help.
> 
> Bill


Oh I would definitely try a super-aggressive aeration and top-dress for that front lawn then. Your X485 is more than capable of doing the work too. Leave the plugs on the lawn and perhaps use a drag (homemade or purchased) to break up the plugs. The soil from the plugs, plus the top-dress material would fill in your low spots and the holes left behind would relieve the tire compaction. You might even be able to use your snow blade (with the skid shoes lowered) to help rough spread whatever topdressing you go with. Your grass will likely just about explode out of the ground in appreciation of all that new found water, fert, and air getting to the roots. Doing all that work in Sept and then overseeding would likely yield incredible results. Now I want to come up and play!

If you do decide to purchase a walk-behind (you are still going to have to fix the lawn though!  ) Exmark has a control system called ECS that I prefer to all others. T-bar is novel but not perfect, and traditional pistol grips require quite a bit of adjustment to get everything working correctly AND have a functional parking brake. ECS takes care of all that and then some.


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## billjr (Feb 12, 2018)

*MasterMech...... *That's actually on my list of things to do. I've been using an older Gill tow behind spike aerator not recently though), but am hoping to get a JD tow behind plug aerator this year. Being you brought that up, lol, what's your opinion on tow behind plug aerators?


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

billjr said:


> *MasterMech...... *That's actually on my list of things to do. I've been using an older Gill tow behind spike aerator not recently though), but am hoping to get a JD tow behind plug aerator this year. Being you brought that up, lol, what's your opinion on tow behind plug aerators?


Spike aerators have a tendency to compact the soil. Leave those for the farmers, not for turf.


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## billjr (Feb 12, 2018)

high leverage....... That's for sure, even without additional weight on it, the thing must weigh 200 lbs, solid steel drum.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

billjr said:


> *MasterMech...... *That's actually on my list of things to do. I've been using an older Gill tow behind spike aerator not recently though), but am hoping to get a JD tow behind plug aerator this year. Being you brought that up, lol, what's your opinion on tow behind plug aerators?


They work! With an X485 providing the motion, I'd load it up with plenty of weight to get the tines 3" deep. JD sells one plenty heavy duty enough for homeowner use. It's likely a HD version of a Brinly-Hardy implement.



high leverage said:


> billjr said:
> 
> 
> > *MasterMech...... *That's actually on my list of things to do. I've been using an older Gill tow behind spike aerator not recently though), but am hoping to get a JD tow behind plug aerator this year. Being you brought that up, lol, what's your opinion on tow behind plug aerators?
> ...


Shallow spikes have their place on turf, but ain't nobody here cutting low enough with enough foot-traffic to justify a monthly spike and top-dress! :lol:


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

MasterMech said:


> billjr said:
> 
> 
> > *MasterMech...... *That's actually on my list of things to do. I've been using an older Gill tow behind spike aerator not recently though), but am hoping to get a JD tow behind plug aerator this year. Being you brought that up, lol, what's your opinion on tow behind plug aerators?
> ...


I have the JD 48" tow-behind aerator and it gets the job done. Like MasterMech said, it is a HD version of a Brinly-Hardy with closer tine spacing.

In this post, you can see the upgraded tines I made.
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=436&start=80#p12139

And in this post you can see the 358lbs I loaded on it and the aerator handled it no problem. (I tried more weight, but the tractor was slipping on the slopes in the yard)
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=436&start=120#p14624

It has 4"x8" tine spacing, and although that is better than most homeowner tow behinds, you will still need to make multiple passes to get a desirable affected surface area. With the 1/2" tines that come standard each pass affects only 0.61%. And even with my upgraded 3/4" tines, each pass affects only 1.38%.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

billjr said:


> The real issue I had with the BobCat was the thumb controls on the handles. I had looked at the Toro T-Bar, but went with the Bobcat which didn't work out. I get different opinions on the TBar system not being able to turn as sharply as the pistol grips.


Have you tried out eXmark's ECS? I really like how these feels.


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## billjr (Feb 12, 2018)

ericgautier.........I agree, I had looked at those last year, just a bit over my budget for what I need it for. I'm not even sure if looking for another 36" walk behind isn't crazy for what I need it for. Glad I started looking early !! Thanks for your response.

Bill


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## billjr (Feb 12, 2018)

I just wanted to update this post. First as a thank you to all the very friendly and informative individuals who took the time to write, and secondly to help any others who come here with a similar question. And of course this is based on my experience and opinions. After getting to see all the equipment I was considering up close, being able to move them all around and finally talking to the Toro rep at a local dealers trade show, I ended up with an electric start Timemaster. First I had no intention on getting electric start, but for the price it seemed worth it. I'll note here, that there is no charging system on the mower itself so you'll have to keep the battery charged with the supplied charged on your own. I have tried the pull start, and this is without a doubt the easiest pull start I have even used. Starts on the first pull, and the resistance is even less than anything I've used including equipment using a compression release setup. I use it with the bag and bagless and have been extremely impressed with both the power and quality of cut. Two things I would like to change, a bigger gas tank, and some type of caster wheel setup would be nice. It's no where near as heavy to turn as the Turfmaster or the Exmark 30", but casters would make it a smoother operation, turning that is. Up until now for trimming and light mowing in my yard I've been using a Lawn Boy I bought new in 1983, the last of the ones that had no special controls, just on and off. The other mower is a JD 14SB I bought new in 1992 and has been my main trimming mower. Both are completely intact and original and operate perfectly although probably a little tired especially after using the Timemaster. Interesting enough to me is the Timemaster has only on and off also, not even a choke or any kind of throttle control. One last mention, and again my opinion, I do prefer the bail type control with multi speed transmission that my JD has over the Personal Pace. Maybe it's just because I've been using that for 26 years, but that Personal Control seems to get me almost running at times. Once again the cut, and I'll give credit to the blades for some of that, is excellent, as good as any I've seen regardless of what machine was used. So that's my little impression and opinion on the 2018 Timemaster, As of now I would make the exact same choice for my use. Again thank all of you who took the time to offer so much valuable information and being so polite. You all have a really helpful and pleasant forum here with a wealth of information and experience.

Bill


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## irrigationnewbie (Jul 15, 2018)

Hi Bill, any updates on your timemaster? Are you still happy with it? I'm particularly interested in mulching ability


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## JERSEY (Sep 9, 2018)

high leverage said:


> Neither. I own a turfmaster for my commercial business. It was the worst mistake yet out of all my equipment purchases. Constant issue with the belt, pulleys, and transmissions. The engine is under powered to run twin blades. It can't mulch if the lawn is remotely wet/damp. Essentially I have to bag everything for it to work properly. However I mow Bermuda and Zoysia at 2". It could possible work better at 4" but I don't mow at that height. It also weighs 160lbs. My 21" commercial Toro's are actually more efficient do to its lighter weight and maneuverability. The Timemaster is no different. Run as fast as you can away from these machines.
> 
> What is your max price? You can usually find used 36" walk behinds on CL and other forums for close to the same price as a new turfmaster.
> 
> ...


how did the scag hold up?

Id love to get a 36 like that........I need to learn more about them. all sort of beat up stuff on craigs......but I cant spend 4k on a mower.


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