# J_nick's Riviera Reno 2017



## J_nick

I plan to do a renovation this spring. My yard is around 13,500 sqft and is common Bermuda with some improved common (Sahara) in a few places from a seeding in 2015 when I didn't know much about planting grass seed.

The main reason I'm doing a renovation is that my lawn is very bumpy. It will take a lot of dirt work to fix the issue. Walking arcossed the back yard every step is a elevation change right now.

I installed an irrigation system in June 2016, I did most of it myself with some help from my dad. Let me tell you a couple days of hard labor was worth every drop of sweat once you turn it on. Before it took me 2 days to water my lawn and now it takes 6 hours. The irrigation covers around 8,500 sqft. I left additional zones open for expanding the system at a later date. I would like to get the hell strip done this spring - summer it's just under 2,000 sqft.

My plan is to renovate the 8,500 sqft section that I would call my main yard. Once green up has began I will start spraying glyphosate and work on knocking down the Bermuda that is there now. I know it's almost impossible to kill Bermuda once it's established but I'm hoping multiple rounds of glyphosate and the dirt work will let the new grass take hold and have the advantage and choke out the lesser quality grass (which I've witnessed over the last growing season the Sahara take over the common Bermuda).

I plan on renting a Harley Rake and going over the yard leveling and smoothing out the soil. I'm also making a Land Plane to attach to my lawn tractor to level more once the ground has settled. I also have a drag mat and lawn roller I will be using.

I'm trying to secure some Latitude 36 Bermuda sprigs from a sod farm. So far not so much luck but I've talked to a couple different contractors and they were pretty confident they could purchase them for me if I needed them to. I will exhaust all options before I give up on the sprigs. If all that fails I will be seeding Riviera Bermuda. All the main dirt work will be the same for sprigs vs seed expect a few differences the day its goes down. I would much rather use sprigs 1. L36 is the highest quality Bermuda on the market and 2. You can use a pre emergent. I found online where you can buy Ronstar. It's a pre emergent that golf coarses use when they sprig. It's mode of action is different than many preM's as it doesn't affect root growth.

My plan is to try and have the sprigs/seed in the ground around the beginning of June. We have a lot of 100*F days in June and that will get the grass going strong. It will also give the grass a few months of growth before going dormant.

Here are some good articles for either sprigging or seeding.

Sprigging: http://www.stma.org/sites/stma/files/STMA_Bulletins/Sprigging_bermudagrass.pdf

Seeding: https://www.uaex.edu/publications/PDF/MP477.pdf

Oh and I forgot to mention being from Oklahoma and a fan of OSU Cowboys I made sure that they developed the grass I will have on my lawn. Latitude 36 and Riviera Bermudagrass are both at the top of NTEP rankings for vegetative and seeded varieties.


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## Redtenchu

I'm excited to follow this thread!


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## Ware

+1, this is going to be epic.


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## Mightyquinn

It will be interesting to watch for sure!!!


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## dfw_pilot

No pressure. We're all counting on you! Looking forward to the progress.


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## Ware

I probably wouldn't worry too much about no spring pre-e/summer weed pressure in year one - that's something you can easily whip back into shape once the bermuda takes off.

Also consider that if your plan is multiple applications of Roundup through the end of May, that's going to take care of any weeds that happen to germinate in the spring - when weed pressure is heaviest.


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## J_nick

A couple months ago I had talked to my local Sunbelt Rental to see if I could rent a Harley Rake. The guy told me they didn't have one in stock but could get one in a a few days. While checking their website the closest one is in Joplin, MO. This worries me about them being able to get one in. So today I've been calling and seeing what other rental places have them just in case. I'll be doing a daily rental so from the time I pick it up I have 24 hours to return it to them (glad it wasn't the same business day). This tool will be an essential part of the Reno and don't know if it will be feasible to do without it.


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## dfw_pilot

I wonder if that location of the Harley changes all the time? If so, it may be no big deal that it's in MO today, OKC the next week, and Tulsa after that. I wouldn't let that stall you - a quick call to the guy may sort out that concern. Good idea to have a backup plan, though.


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## J_nick

Yeah that could very much be true. I'd say it's more to ease my mind having a backup plan in case #1 falls through.


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## J_nick

As of now it looks like the sprigs are not going to happen. Sod farms just don't want to deal with it since it's so small of a project. The landscaping contractor I was talking to put me in touch with the magnager of the sod farm. The cultivars i was wanting weren't at his farm they were in the farm in Tulsa. Tulsa won't even give me a call back once I say "sprigs" I would get an "oh... let me give your information to whoever".

So now I'm full bore towards the seeding. I've read so many university study's over the last week someone should send me an honorary horticulture degree. I've also read quite a few horror stories of homeowners trying seeding Bermuda, but who doesn't like a good challenge!

Starting to see a little bit of green shooting out. I hope we have a really early green up so I can start the kill sooner than expected. I want to get at least 2 good sprays of gylphosate + fusilade before the dirt work starts.

I removed an old stump from my yard last weekend. I have a 5' circle of bare dirt so it gave me the opportunity to try a few different seeding techniques and was happy with the results. Bermuda grass seed shouldn't be covered by more than 1/4" of soil with 1/8" being the sweet spot. I wanted to see what would work the best before it was seed down day and I realized I was doing it all wrong.


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## Mightyquinn

What kind of seed are you thinking of going with? I've heard it's better to get it early before most of the seed suppliers run out.


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## J_nick

I plan on buying Riviera, I live just over an hour west of where the grow the seed for production so I planned to just drive to Johnston Seed Company and pick it up. Thanks for the tip I plan to buy it around mid March as I'll have some extra spending money around then.


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## Redtenchu

I'm excited, you'll be the first Homeowner with Riviera on the site :beer:


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## Iriasj2009

When your seeding, all you need is patience. :dancenana:


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## J_nick

Made a trip today to the seed company, it was more uninventfull than I had thought about. Basically like going to the co-op but I did talk with one of the guys about the different fertilizers they make. They make over 10 different blends of anything you could want. I ended up buying my 25# bag of Riviera, 2 bags of 10-20-10 starter fert and 4 bags of 40-0-0 slow release. Last year I had a hard time searching for fertilizer and wish I would have stumbled onto the place. I was paying $40 for a 45# bag of 30-0-3 with 6% slow release and wasn't happy with it but it was the best I could find. I bought these 40# bags of 40-0-0 all slow release for $22.50. So as long as I don't start fertilizing with poop microbs Johnston's will be the place I'll be buying my fert from now on.


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## J_nick

Another big reason I'm doing this Reno is for the picture below. I battled leaf spot all last year and it's already back. The desease tolerance of my grass is extremely low.


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## Mightyquinn

J_nick said:


> Another big reason I'm doing this Reno is for the picture below. I battled leaf spot all last year and it's already back. The desease tolerance of my grass is extremely low.


Maybe you should get a soil test done :lol:


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## J_nick

Sprayed the renovation area tonight with a deadly cocktail, 1.9oz of 41% glyphosate + .55oz of Fusilade II per 1000 sqft. :shock:


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## Redtenchu

Congrats! I hope you get a good kill!


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## J_nick

Redtenchu said:


> Congrats! I hope you get a good kill!


Thanks Red I guess I'll know in a week or so, I'll spot spray if I missed anything. I felt like I got really good coverage though. The upgraded spray rig did a fantastic job


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## J_nick

5 days post spray. Cool season grass/ weeds are showing major signs of death. Just now starting to see some yellowing of the Bermuda in a few places


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## Iriasj2009

I hope you get a great kill. I wish I would have been patient enough when killing off the tifway. It came back and I hate the way it looks next to celebration.


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## J_nick

8 days post spray. Back yard it barely hanging on, the front still has a little more green.

 

Current plan is to hit it with a power rake this weekend and clean up. Scalp and wait for regrowth then spray again.

I don't know how long it will take to put on some regrowth but if it's much later than the middle of May I'll have to spray just glyphosate. Fusilade can act like a preemergent for up to 30 days. I'm wanting to get seed down at least by the middle of June at the latest.


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## Mightyquinn

Have you tried to hit it with some Nitrogen and then your cocktail? The Nitrogen should speed up growth and hence take up more of your cocktail.


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## J_nick

I thought about adding Ammonium Sulfate to the mix while spraying, but ended up not doing it after reading articles like this. I don't have hard water and bermuda absorbs chemicals easily.

I hadn't thought about putting down some granule N to speed up regrowth. Might do that after power raking, any thoughts?


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## Mightyquinn

If you have some fast release Nitrogen I would definitely put it down and give it a few days or a week or two(I don't know your timetable exactly). Before you spray your cocktail again. It definitely wouldn't hurt and may speed the kill some.


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## J_nick

Ok sounds good to me. I can pick up some 38-0-0 tomorrow. I'm expected to get some rain Thursday-Friday but I might go ahead and water it in Thursday morning just to be safe.


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## Topcat

Some people - particularly those that start the renovation, kill off the existing lawn over a month or more, then plant seed and get it to grow into an amazing lawn possess the patience of Job. :thumbup:

I thought of doing a renovation of my lawn, but since I am in instant gratification type of person, my vision of a renovation would be to scalp the lawn super low, spray glyco, wait a week or two for a kill. Scalp the remains from the soil, top dress, level, then lay sod.

I am in instant gratification type of person, and would not be patient enough for the seed to grow into the lawn I'd want.


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## J_nick

I would love to be able to lay sod but for the grass I wanted it would have been around $6k that's just not in the budget.

Plus once it looks amazing presumably next year, late August if I'm lucky. Being able to say you grew it yourself would be gratifying.


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## Ware

Mightyquinn said:


> If you have some fast release Nitrogen I would definitely put it down and give it a few days or a week or two(I don't know your timetable exactly). Before you spray your cocktail again. It definitely wouldn't hurt and may speed the kill some.


I'm a little torn on this idea. I don't have any research to cite, but I can't help but think about how much longer my bermuda holds up under stresses like drought after being fertilized (compared to neighbors who don't). What you're saying makes sense, but on a basic level I guess I would be inclined to not do anything to promote healthy growth if I was in fact trying to kill it.

Glyphosate works by inhibiting an enzyme that plants use to make amino acids. Without the amino acids, the plant stops growing. The plant degrades due to a lack of proteins and ultimately dies from lack of nutrients/dehydration. This is not a fast process, and I just haven't seen any research that says this mode of action is expedited by giving the plant nutrients that you're ultimately trying to starve it from.

But let us know how it goes.


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## Mightyquinn

Maybe you should do a test and only do half the area with Nitrogen and the other half without and see what the effects are?


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## Ware

Mightyquinn said:


> Maybe you should do a test and only do half the area with Nitrogen and the other half without and see what the effects are?


Now we're talking! Science Fair!


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## Redtenchu

Burn it with fire!!!

Sorry, I've had a couple drinks...


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## Mightyquinn

Redtenchu said:


> Burn it with fire!!!


I think that would only make it grow in stronger!!


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## J_nick

Ware you bring up some good points. I think if it was beneficial I would have read it somewhere along the way. I'll hold off on the N till grow in. Plan to hit it hard with the power rake this weekend. Maybe go for that fraze look MQ had going on.


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## Ware

J_nick said:


> Ware you bring up some good points. I think if it was beneficial I would have read it somewhere along the way. I'll hold off on the N till grow in. Plan to hit it hard with the power rake this weekend. Maybe go for that fraze look MQ had going on.


I did some reading this morning that said glyphosate is enhanced by NIS and nitrogen fertilizer adjuvants; however, this article said that applying nitrogen fertilizer with herbicides may improve weed control, but is not an adequate substitute for surfactant or crop oil adjuvants. Both articles only mentioned Nitrogen being added as an adjuvant to the water carrier/spray solution - not using a granular fertilizer ahead of an herbicide application.

Also worth mentioning, the first article said oil adjuvants (like MSO) actually antagonize glyphosate's effectiveness.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I've always had good success killing bermuda with glyphosate and time.


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## MrMeaner

Redtenchu said:


> Burn it with fire!!!
> 
> Sorry, I've had a couple drinks...


Ive seen people here in the south actually burn there yard with a torch instead of doing a scalp - seriously considered it this year but decided against - may do it next year and could substantially decrease the amount of 90 gallon trash bags i have to dispose of each year!!


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## Redtenchu

MrMeaner said:


> Redtenchu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Burn it with fire!!!
> 
> Sorry, I've had a couple drinks...
> 
> 
> 
> Ive seen people here in the south actually burn there yard with a torch instead of doing a scalp - seriously considered it this year but decided against - may do it next year and could substantially decrease the amount of 90 gallon trash bags i have to dispose of each year!!
Click to expand...

Yes! I'd like to try it, but it's not "legal" within my city's limits.


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## Alan

I wouldn't sweat the seeding too much. I have some LaPrima(non-XD) seed and have had it a while, like 3 years. I wondered about its viability after being stored in the garage. I was also curious as to how much baby-ing it would need to germinate....so I took a small handful and threw it in the somewhat cleared lot next door to me, did not cover it, did not water it(mother nature did) and voila!


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## J_nick

Worked on the yard all day today. Hauled off somewhere around 127 cubic feet of clippings.

Started by flagging all sprinkler heads as to not hit them with the power rake.

1. Power raked (flail blades) north and south
2. Used Honda rotary to clean up
3. Power raked east and west
4. Honda for clean up again
5. Used the drag mat to smooth everything out.
6. TruCut bench height at .4" and caught everything



Little hints of green in the low spots. I'm going to wait around a week and spray again.


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## Redtenchu

Great work so far!

Our first full Reno on the site is warm season!

I'm excited to see what it looks like in early fall!


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## jbrown

J_nick said:


> Worked on the yard all day today. Hauled off somewhere around 127 cubic feet of clippings.
> 
> Started by flagging all sprinkler heads as to not hit them with the power rake.
> 
> 1. Power raked (flail blades) north and south
> 2. Used Honda rotary to clean up
> 3. Power raked east and west
> 4. Honda for clean up again
> 5. Used the drag mat to smooth everything out.
> 6. TruCut bench height at .4" and caught everything
> 
> 
> 
> Little hints of green in the low spots. I'm going to wait around a week and spray again.


DANG! that's going to look awesome when it grows in. Great work J_Nick!

JB


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## J_nick

jbrown said:


> DANG! that's going to look awesome when it grows in. Great work J_Nick!
> 
> JB


Thanks JB, no seed down yet. Still lots of leveling to do but that will be after I can spray again.


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## J_nick

People around town keep asking me "what did you do your yard?" I've got to the point where I tell them I killed it and when they ask why I say "I just didn't feel like mowing this year" :lol: then I tell them the truth. Most people don't understand why I'm killing my Bermuda to plant Bermuda...


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## Redtenchu

J_nick said:


> People around town keep asking me "what did you do your yard?" I've got to the point where I tell them I killed it and when they ask why I say "I just didn't feel like mowing this year" :lol: then I tell them the truth. Most people don't understand why I'm killing my Bermuda to plant Bermuda...


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## J_nick

Starting to see a little bit of regrowth. With temps in the upper 70s-80s for the next week hopefully I'll get quite a bit more. Going to spray glypho+Fusilade regardless of % of regrowth by the end of next week because of the pre emergent factor. Any regrowth after that will be straight glypho.


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## J_nick

I'd say about 30% of the lawn looks like this.



Little bit of regrowth, the next 4 days will be in the mid 80's so hopefully I'll see a lot more before the spray deadline. Checked my soil temp yesterday, mesonet has been saying temps were right around 60-62, while checking I found my shadier areas were around 68 and full sun areas were around 74 :thumbup:

What are your thoughts on putting down some Heritage G? I still see signs on leaf spot. The seed I have is coated by fungicide. I thought about putting some Heritage G down 3 weeks before seeding and the fungicide from the seed being like a 2nd treatment.


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## Iriasj2009

I wouldn't worrry about fungus at this stage. Keep up the work!


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## j4c11

J_nick said:


> What are your thoughts on putting down some Heritage G?


Cheap insurance if you ask me. I lost an entire renovation last fall to fungus. Before the renovation I was like "I don't want to spend $60 on fungicide". After the renovation I was like "I wish I had spend $60 on fungicide". I'd do Headway instead of Heritage, it has propiconazole in addition to azoxystrobin, which helps broaden its effect. It also help with fungus developing resistance to azoxystrobin - it gets wiped by the propiconazole if it does.


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## J_nick

That's interesting that Headway has the same % AI as Heritage but with one more AI for the same price.

Although the new grass is more disease resistant I would rather play it safe and try to rid this problem. The Riviera seed I have is coated with Apron XL and Maxim fungicides.

I was thinking max rate for the first app. 4#/1000 for 9k of Reno area. That means I'll need two bags with 24ish #s left over. I could put the 24# down at time of seeding, it would be at 2.66#/1000 but with the fungicide that the seed already has I think it would work out.


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## J_nick

Sprayed my second round of glyphosate at 1.9oz/1000 and Fusilade II at .55oz/1000. T-minus 30 days till seed down! I'll most likely have to spray straight glypho again before the seed gets down to get the stragglers, but it won't be a blanket app like I've been doing.


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## J_nick

Well I almost didn't have to worry about the renovation after this evening. We've been having crazy storms on this side of the state this week. An EF3 tornado was headed straight for us. All the meteorologist were fearing the worst for my little town, but then out of no where the tornado lifted about 2 miles from town :shock:


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## wardconnor

I'm happy to hear your safe and that it's gone for now.


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## Redtenchu

wardconnor said:


> I'm happy to hear your safe and that it's gone for now.


+1


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## J_nick

Redtenchu said:


> wardconnor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1495172387[/url] user_id=99]
> I'm happy to hear your safe and that it's gone for now.
> 
> 
> 
> +1
Click to expand...




wardconnor said:


> I'm happy to hear your safe and that it's gone for now.


Thanks guys


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## J_nick

Spot sprayed glypho mainly on a invasive vine we have growing up a trellis. I pulled roots from it over 25' away growing around the perimeter of our house :x It should be interesting to see what the Harley Rake does to them. To be clear I didn't spray the vine directly just the leaves that the roots were sending up. I noticed them last year but when mowing every 3-4 days they never got very tall. I don't know how the glypho will do on it but I was bored and needed to do get out and do something.


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## J_nick

I made a 5' x 3' nail drag tonight. My plan was to use it after the Harley Rake gets the initial leveling done (shooting for Tuesday-Wednesday of next week). I planed on using it in conjunction with my drag mat and roller to smooth out and firm up the seedbed in the weeks prior to planting. After giving it a test run by hand tonight it was pulling up all kinds of stolons that the flail bladed power rake left behind. The new plan is to hook it to my lawn tractor and get up as much dead material as possible before the Harley Rake gets here.


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## J_nick

I did some more clean up today. I drug the nail drag around until it wasn't really doing much. I then got out the power rake and went over the yard once. Next I used the Honda rotary to pickup as much material as I could. Finally I used the drag mat to smooth everything out and ran the sprinklers to settle down all the dust.

Stripes from the power rake









Most of the yard looks like this 









The best looking part is under the Mimosa tree. It produces too much shade for Bermuda so no stolons/rhizomes to deal with. If the rest of the yard looks like this by next weekend I'll be ecstatic.


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## dfw_pilot

Looking great, J_Nick. Great work. You'll be glad you did all this prep work when the grass comes in.


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## Iriasj2009

Nice jnick!!!


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## J_nick

The yard looks worse than before  I made a 6 hour round trip and rented a Harley Rake. I was just figuring out the right depth/ speed to make it look good then bam! I hit something in the yard and busted a hydraulic line. Then in a panic I jumped on the tractor with a box blade attached and proceeded to royally screw things up. It probably wouldn't have been so bad but all the stolons/rhizomes/roots were balling up in the box and not letting dirt flow very well.

I was told there was 5 wells on my property at one time and I could only locate 4. The rake found the 5th one and the well won the fight. Now I'll take it back in the morning to get fixed and try round 2 tomorrow afternoon.

I've been hand raking all the stolons/rhizomes/roots for the last couple hours and nowhere near done. Looks like it will be a late night of yard work.


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## j4c11

Hang in there, there's always bumps in the road. My renovation got wiped out by fungus and 95 degree temps in September last year and washed out by Hurricane Matthew in early October a week after I reseeded. Victories are even sweeter when won in the face of adversity :thumbup:


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## dfw_pilot

j4c11 said:


> there's always bumps in the road.


I'm sure this pun was intended


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## J_nick

Just got finished hand raking everything. There is a boat load of stolons/rhizomes I raked up. Unfortunately I think there is still that much underground that I'll be raking again after I run the Harley Rake over everything again.

Here is one pile... there are 20 more just like it  


Here is something that came in handy. A 42" Rake from agrisupply. Don't let the $8.88 price tag fool ya they wanted $20+ for shipping but I still think $30 was worth it


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## J_nick

j4c11 said:


> Hang in there, there's always bumps in the road. My renovation got wiped out by fungus and 95 degree temps in September last year and washed out by Hurricane Matthew in early October a week after I reseeded. Victories are even sweeter when won in the face of adversity :thumbup:


Thanks for the words of encouragement they honestly made me get up and get back out there.


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## J_nick

Day 2= success!

First thing this morning I drove to OKC and got the Harley Rake fixed. I returned home and got to work. The back yard is looking great right now. The front still needs some work, I was running out of daylight so I didn't rake up the stolons in the front yet. I did rake them up in the back yard and since daylight was running out I hooked onto my drag mat and drove around for 30 or so minutes. I was having to stop periodically to clean the mat of stolons so I hand raked the back yard again since we have a porch light that illuminates a majority of the back yard.

I'll take some better pictures tomorrow these are the only 2 I have from today


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## Iriasj2009

Glypho+fulisade+stolonremoval= high common Bermuda death rate. All that work will pay off. Looking great!


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## J_nick

Iriasj2009 said:


> Glypho+fulisade+stolonremoval= high common Bermuda death rate. All that work will pay off. Looking great!


Thanks Irias, I'll try to remember to send you some snaps tomorrow.


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## Redtenchu

This is pretty epic, can't wait until Seed is down!


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## j4c11

Wow that turned out great, nice job :thumbup:


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## Ware

Looking good, JN! :thumbup:


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## J_nick

Yesterday I got quite a bit of work done but I will have a little more to do on the weekend. I started by raking stolons in the front yard. I used my drag mat to smooth everything out. The yard will not be level or pool table flat. It has its undulations and I'm fine with that I just want it to be smooooooth. The ground didn't have hardly any moisture in the top 4" which made moving it around easy with the mat. Once I got to a point I was happy with it I turned on the sprinklers to settle things down.







I plan to roll the yard either tonight or tomorrow morning. I'll then get the rake drag out and finish with the drag mat. I will continue to do those 3 things throughout the week to help settle the soil and keep it smoooooth.

I need to work with the dirt around the house. I just wasn't comfortable enough with the Harley Rake/skid steer to get so close to the house or gas meter. From the front porch to the gas meter bugs me and I plan to attack it this weekend but eventually I will be putting beds in there so I'm not going to get too carried away with it.

I also removed a ridge that was in the front yard. The pictures don't show it very good but took around 4-6" out of the ridge. I looks way better from the street now. I also lowered the sprinkler heads to the appropriate depth.


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## Tellycoleman

You are doing a great job.
All that work will pay off. I spent days making my yard as level as i could.
Did you add any soil amendments?
Make sure every part of our property gets the adequate irrigation. I messed up and planted and then wasted a few days getting the irrigation right. Now that you have bare ground you can easily tell the areas that dry out quickly.
Awsome!!!!!


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## J_nick

Thanks Telly. I did not add any soil amendments. I had a soil test done last year and my P-K were sufficient, only thing lacking was N and some micros that I'm not too worried about.

+1 on the irrigation tips. I have one head that needs replace as it was sticking about 50% of the time. I hit the yard with 15 minutes of run time (a little over .1") and i had dry spots within 1.5 hours. Not sure if it was because the soil underneath was so dry pulling the moisture away or if will continue to be that way, soil temp was 92F and outside temp was around 90F with little to no clouds. I went ahead and ran it enough last night so the soil would get saturated. I'll be playing around with it this weekend but I already think I need to update my timer so I can water enough during the middle of the day.


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## Mightyquinn

This thread is going to get interesting real soon I bet!!! Can't wait for seed down!


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## J_nick

You bet MQ seed down in a week. Unfortunately but thankfully someone brought to my attention the fungicide I bought has restrictions with Bermuda. You can not apply more than 3#/k of it within 30 days. The curative rate for leaf spot-melting out is 4#/k. So I guess I will buy some Heritage G and mix in a little bit of the Headway that way it's at least getting used. 30# bag of Heritage will give me 3#/k for 10k, then I'll add in 10# of the Headway for the additional 1#/k.

Didn't do a whole lot on the yard yesterday. Put my fence back up and put some additional fencing up to dog proof the renovation area. Moved around a little bit of dirt around the edges. Then it started raining... .25" in about 10 minutes, since my ground was already saturated from testing sprinkler coverage/ run time I had a lot of runoff. Quite a bit of pooling going on but fortunately no washouts.

 

First pic is from my shop looking towards the backyard. The second is my pond that formed in the front yard. I've been questioning if I should spray a wetting agent before seeding and I was leaning towards no but now I'm more 50/50.


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## Mightyquinn

I can't see how the wetting agent would hurt and may help some of those spots from washing out.


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## J_nick

Today I sprayed anything green I saw in the yard with glyphosate. All in all not much green I didn't even spray the whole gallon I mixed up even after I went to the north pasture and sprayed around so I wouldn't have to weedeat as much. I have some Bermuda coming up that survived 2 rounds of glypho/Fusilade and all the rhizomes I raked up but nothing I'm too concerned about.

I did some dirt work around the edges making it look a lot better. I'd say 95% of the dirt work is done. I might get to the rest before the weekend but if I don't I'll just have to live with it and thats okay.

Since rolling the yard it has been holding moisture a lot better so I don't plan on upgrading my controller. 3-4 five minute runs I think will be more than enough. I didn't run the sprinklers at all today and the soil was still damp at seed depth. Partly cloudy today with high temp at 86F. Next week it will be in the mid 90s.

I'm planning for seed down this weekend. Hopefully Saturday but we are going on a family trip to a water park close by so it all depends on when we go and how long we stay there. It's funny how my wife complains about our "dirt yard" but makes plans on the most important days...

I also killed a mole that was trying to sabotage the reno. Gopher still at large.


----------



## J_nick

Seed down in the morning. Good luck little guys!


----------



## Iriasj2009

J_nick said:


> Seed down in the morning. Good luck little guys!


Waiting for pics! Haha


----------



## J_nick

Day 0 Seed is down!

Started off the day by pulling the nail drag followed by the drag mat. Than used a rake I attached to the back of my 3 point hitch on my lawn tractor to further loosen up the seedbed.

Not knowing what setting I should use on my spreader I put half the bag of seed in just in case I ran out faster than expected. I went over the whole yard and still had a little bit left. I put the other half of the bag in and opened the spreader just a little bit more.










I used the rake behind the tractor again to incorporate the seed into the soil. Then rolled the lawn before kicking on the sprinklers.










Now I'm just watching the sprinklers to try and dial in the run time/ schedule.


----------



## Iriasj2009

Awesome!


----------



## J_nick

Day 5 update

I've been watering like crazy. We hit 100 degrees yesterday and have been just under that all week. Water at 7am, 10am-4pm hourly, 6pm then before I go to bed around 11-12.

I have some of the old Bermuda coming back from the dead. It's crazy how much energy stolons and rhizomes store to come back after 2 rounds of glypho.










The most exciting part is I think I have some germination!


----------



## Tellycoleman

Does look like germination.
Soooo cool


----------



## Mightyquinn

JN, how much seed do you have left over for spots that don't germinate?


----------



## J_nick

00000.0000 pounds haha. I can have some delivered within a few days direct from grower to my local co-op. Even then I do t know if I'd go that route. Depending on the size of the area I would probably just get a slab of sod and break it into sprigs. It's Bermuda as long as it's not that big of area she will spread to fill the gaps.


----------



## Mightyquinn

J_nick said:


> 00000.0000 pounds haha. I can have some delivered within a few days direct from grower to my local co-op. Even then I do t know if I'd go that route. Depending on the size of the area I would probably just get a slab of sod and break it into sprigs. It's Bermuda as long as it's not that big of area she will spread to fill the gaps.


I wasn't sure how OCD you were going to be with the reno :thumbup:


----------



## Tellycoleman

Hey are you watering enouph?
I was and still am watering sooooo much more.
How long are you watering?
Does the ground dry out in the 3 hours in between watering?
I turn every zone on for 5 min every hour in this hot Tn heat but im in low 90's.


----------



## Redtenchu

J_nick said:


> 00000.0000 pounds haha.


 All or Nothing! 
:thumbup:


----------



## J_nick

Tellycoleman said:


> Hey are you watering enouph?
> I was and still am watering sooooo much more.
> How long are you watering?
> Does the ground dry out in the 3 hours in between watering?
> I turn every zone on for 5 min every hour in this hot Tn heat but im in low 90's.


Yes I believe I am watering enough the top surface of the ground never dries out.

Watering 6-8 minutes per zone. Hourly during mid day when the sun is the strongest. I've found before 10-11 and after 4-5 the evaporation is significantly less and can go a without water for more than a few hours. I just turn them on for safe measure.

It hit 103 here today but everything still was moist.

The only problem I have right now is we have been having strong winds out of the south so right along the fence line probably hasn't got enough constant water for germination. I'm not too worried about it as of now but we will see how it goes later on. Might have to transfer some sprigs or plugs in that area later on but I'll cross the bridge when I come to it.


----------



## Tellycoleman

update? How are your babies doing?


----------



## J_nick

More and more popping up but they don't seem to be growing very fast. This picture was taking on Sunday Day 7 after seeding in about the same location as the first germination pic.










I'll update some Day 9 pics later tonight.


----------



## Mightyquinn

I'd be happy with that after a week! You just have to be patient and it will come


----------



## rhanna

It's looking good. I planted Riviera May 22 and I think it took 10 days for me to find the first blade of bermuda. After that, it seemed to take forever to grow but I mowed it for the first time last weekend and I could mow it again tomorrow.


----------



## J_nick

rhanna said:


> It's looking good. I planted Riviera May 22 and I think it took 10 days for me to find the first blade of bermuda. After that, it seemed to take forever to grow but I mowed it for the first time last weekend and I could mow it again tomorrow.


Thanks rhanna, what height of cut are you cutting at?


----------



## Reel Low Dad

Just wait. It will get there. I have mowed daily for the past 4 days. Currently at 7 weeks since seeding.


----------



## J_nick

Day 9 update:

Germination is looking good, some spots better than others. I have some of the old Bermuda coming up but nothing I'm worried about.










Most of the yard looks like this pic but with random thick spots like the first pic.










Here is the spot I've been showing in the last few updates. Now I'm just waiting for it to take off and start tillering. That should happen around day 15-17.


----------



## Tellycoleman

Very nice in 30 days your lawn will look better than mine. Very good growth


----------



## rhanna

J_nick said:


> rhanna said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's looking good. I planted Riviera May 22 and I think it took 10 days for me to find the first blade of bermuda. After that, it seemed to take forever to grow but I mowed it for the first time last weekend and I could mow it again tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks rhanna, what height of cut are you cutting at?
Click to expand...

2 inches, I have a Honda rotary mower. 
I think I read in the literature for Riviera, from the Johnson seed company that you should now at 1 inch until mature and then lower it if you want


----------



## Iriasj2009

Germination!! Nice!


----------



## J_nick

rhanna said:


> 2 inches, I have a Honda rotary mower.
> I think I read in the literature for Riviera, from the Johnson seed company that you should now at 1 inch until mature and then lower it if you want


I've read that also in the Establishment Guide from Johnston's. 1" is just to high for me, I plan to follow this article from the University of Arkansas which says:


> Begin mowing at 0.5 to 0.75 inch or at desired height as soon as needed.


----------



## J_nick

Day 10:

Starting to see some tillering happen! Look to the left of that white thing in the center and the old stolon you can see some have 2 leafs, my babies are turning into toddlers


----------



## SGrabs33

J_nick said:


> my babies are turning into toddlers


You're a proud papa!


----------



## Pete1313

Just read thru your thread. Awesome work on the reno J_nick, and congrats on having little green babies! The hardest part of a reno, at least for me, is where you are at right now. The waiting, patience, and worry from the time of seed down to the first mow. It is going to look awesome once it establishes! :thumbsup:


----------



## J_nick

Pete1313 said:


> Just read thru your thread. Awesome work on the reno J_nick, and congrats on having little green babies! The hardest part of a reno, at least for me, is where you are at right now. The waiting, patience, and worry from the time of seed down to the first mow. It is going to look awesome once it establishes! :thumbsup:


Thanks Pete I'm looking forward to seeing your Reno. I don't know how you KBG guys do it, the last 10 days have felt like a month has went by. I couldn't imagine waiting 3 weeks for germination.

The waiting is tough. I want to do something to it but I keep telling myself to just leave it alone and let it get a bit older. That being said if it keeps progressing like it is I might drop a bag of 10-20-10 on it Monday. It works out to be just under .5# N. Really just playing it by ear at this point.


----------



## Pete1313

It definately tests your patience.



J_nick said:


> I want to do something to it but I keep telling myself to just leave it alone and let it get a bit older.


That is the hardest part. Always feeling like you need to do something, when sometimes doing nothing is best.


----------



## J_nick

I backed off my water a bit today. I'm going to start watering at 10, 12, 2, 4 then another sometime in the evening. A few spots dried on the surface but as soon as you break the crust it's still moist underneath.

My controller only allows me to set 4 run times. I was having to come home for lunch to change the start times to make it through the afternoon. Now that I have decent germination across the yard I think the new schedule will be fine.

A few days ago I took a hanger and pulled up a few seedlings scattered across the lawn. They all had roots 1/4" or so long so they shouldn't dry up.

No pictures, not much has changed since the last one. They are just getting a little bit bigger. I'll definitely post pics when the explosion of growth starts.

I lied... everyone loves pics. This was from last night so it's not the best quality.


----------



## Pete1313

Lookin' good! Is that pic from your nightly flashlight seedling check?


----------



## J_nick

Pete1313 said:


> Lookin' good! Is that pic from your nightly flashlight seedling check?


Nightly flashlight seedling check?? You mean every time I go outside  I've tried my hardest not to check on them as much the last couple days since not much is happening but it's hard. That was actually on my way to check a mole trap. I don't know what's got into them maybe it's breeding season or something. I normally kill one every few weeks or so but I've got 3 in the last few days. They haven't done too much damage fortunately


----------



## Mightyquinn

Good to hear you have the moles under control for the most part and I know it's hard not to look at the seedlings everyday, just like a watched pot never boils huh?


----------



## J_nick

I dropped a bag of 10-20-10 on the reno this morning before the first irrigation cycle went off. Just under .5# N&K with just under 1# of P.

The yard had more of a greener tint to it this morning.


----------



## Mightyquinn

J_nick said:


> I dropped a bag of 10-20-10 on the reno this morning before the first irrigation cycle went off. Just under .5# N&K with just under 1# of P.
> 
> The yard had more of a greener tint to it this morning.


It's all the weeds giving it that hue :thumbup: :lol:

All jokes aside, it's looking good for as early as it is.


----------



## Tellycoleman

I had the green tint as well. 
It was a day or two before I had a ton of sprouts pop up
Niceeee


----------



## Redtenchu

Looking good JNick! I bet you'll have full coverage before the summer season is over!


----------



## J_nick

Day 17 update:

I gave the lawn it's first cut today. HOC set at .5" most of the grass isn't .5" tall yet but some of it was so it gave me a chance to get the mower out. I was pleasantly surprised that I got some faint stripping 










I still have a long way to go but it's looking promising!


----------



## Ware

That looks fantastic! Way to set the 1/2" tone - strong parenting! :thumbup:


----------



## lagerman72

YES!! Definitely striping and turning green! Nice job J_nick, your payoff for the hard work is right around the corner.


----------



## Tellycoleman

Your lawn will be awesome in another 17 days.


----------



## J_nick

Ware said:


> That looks fantastic! Way to set the 1/2" tone - strong parenting! :thumbup:





lagerman72 said:


> YES!! Definitely striping and turning green! Nice job J_nick, your payoff for the hard work is right around the corner.


Thanks guys, everyday it seems like there is less and less brown.



Tellycoleman said:


> Your lawn will be awesome in another 17 days.


Thanks Telly I'm interested in an update of your progress. Right now the dates have been lining up right with the University of Arkansas guide  for seeding Bermuda. So that means I should be seeing stolon development within the next week. I do have what appears to be some goosegrass coming in but I'm going to let it be for right now. I also have some spurge and other broadleafs popping up but less than expected. I've been hand pulling the broadleafs once they are a few inches tall.


----------



## SGrabs33

Looking like it's coming along great!


----------



## Pete1313

Looking good, and :thumbsup: for keeping it tight at .5" right out of the gate!


----------



## BrettWayne

Very nice !


----------



## J_nick

Day 19 update:

Gave her another snip at .5". I think I'm seeing the beginning of stolon development.










Picture of the front and side yard


----------



## Iriasj2009

Yup! I'm seeing stolons too!!


----------



## wardconnor

Those pictures are rewarding im sure. Good stolon activity there. Your hard work is paying off.


----------



## J_nick

Wednesday day 17 compared to Sunday day 21:


----------



## SGrabs33

Wow, what a huge difference that was. Keep it up!


----------



## lagerman72

J_nick said:


> Wednesday day 17 compared to Sunday day 21:


  what a difference!


----------



## josh02_2001

Looking really nice. Good work.


----------



## J_nick

Thanks guys. Looking at it day to day you don't notice much change. Once I put the pictures next to each other it's a different story :dancenana: can't wait to see what it looks like in another 4 days. Weed pressure is getting more intense but I'm going to ride it out for the time being.

I also reduced my watering cycles. Yesterday I watered at noon and 3pm for 10 minutes a piece. Nothing looked stressed at all so I'll continue watching the next 2 days while I'm home. I've been thinking about a 3am 3pm watering but it makes me nervous. The roots are getting longer I dug one up the other day and it was over 1/2" long.


----------



## J_nick

The back yard is looking a lot better than the front is weed wise. It still has more than I'd like but the front is worse and doesn't stripe nearly as well. Here is a picture of part of the front. I'm going to hold back on spraying for as long as possible


----------



## J_nick

Day 26 update: Setback

A day or two ago I noticed a few black dots on some leaf blades (leaf spot). It wasn't very bad so I didn't do anything about it. Well I wish I would have put down some fungicide then because today it was widespread throughout the lawn. Maybe even some yellowing going on in a few places.

I applied a 30# bag of Heritage G with 6# of Headway G. Giving me around 3.75#/1000. Curative rates are 3.5-4#/1000 so I'm right in the middle. I was also due for some fertilizer so I put down a bag of 10-20-10. While there is some controversy over applying fertilizer while a fungus is present a couple article I read said a lack of Nitrogen is just as bad as too much. A lack of N and the grass is weak fighting the fungus, too much N and the fungus gets worse. I was due for my fert app so I applied it. It was right under .5# N/1000. Hopefully it will grow out of this. The articles also said raising HOC will help but I'm really liking the look of the .5" cut. If things don't get better I might go up but fingers crossed.

The front yard has quite a bit of goosegrass. It's a PITA because the cliprate on the JD220B is too low and the roller is too close to the reel to cut it very well. I got my TruCut going today and it does a better job cutting it. Here is a picture of it yesterday after cutting with the 220B










This is the worse area of the renovation. This is what happens when you seed then have 2 weeks of 20mph+ winds out of the south. Sprinkler coverage is good when it's calm but not with the high winds. I'm not going to reseed this area I'll just let it spread and maybe transfer some plugs once the grass is more developed. A friend of mine told me he heard Bermuda spreads well though :lol:


----------



## J_nick

I forgot to mention once I saw the leaf spot I started irrigating only once per day for 15 minutes, started at 11am then moved it to 5am after I saw no stess. Hit 100 degrees today and I didn't see any signs of wilting or curled blades.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Goosegrass is the bane of my existence in my back yard... good luck on your reno. Fantastic writeups.


----------



## josh02_2001

Goose grass has really taken over my front yard riviera project. Oddly, my backyard which is twice the size doesn't have much goose grass. What are you planning to use to kill the goose grass?


----------



## J_nick

josh02_2001 said:


> Goose grass has really taken over my front yard riviera project. Oddly, my backyard which is twice the size doesn't have much goose grass. What are you planning to use to kill the goose grass?


I'll be spraying MSMA to kill the goosegrass. I'm just waiting for the Bermuda to get older. I'll most likely be mixing in Drive with the MSMA to get some broadleafs too. The combo can be sprayed 2 weeks after emergence.


----------



## Mightyquinn

J_nick said:


> I'll be spraying MSMA to kill the goosegrass. I'm just waiting for the Bermuda to get older. I'll most likely be mixing in Drive with the MSMA to get some broadleafs too. The combo can be sprayed 2 weeks after emergence.


What are you waiting for then? :lol:


----------



## J_nick

I'm calling emergence at last Sunday July 2nd. It was probably a few days before that but that's when the yard really seemed to take off.


----------



## Mightyquinn

J_nick said:


> I'm calling emergence at last Sunday July 2nd. It was probably a few days before that but that's when the yard really seemed to take off.


It just seemed like it's been longer than that


----------



## J_nick

Mightyquinn said:


> J_nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm calling emergence at last Sunday July 2nd. It was probably a few days before that but that's when the yard really seemed to take off.
> 
> 
> 
> It just seemed like it's been longer than that
Click to expand...

You're telling me! Feels like 3 weeks ago


----------



## J_nick

It's been a month since seed went down and it has felt like 3 months. All in all I'd say it's looking good so far. Do I have weeds? Yes, I have lots of weeds but there is a lot more grass. I'm a little hesitant about spraying. More scared that I'll kill the seedlings, but I think it will be good for the grass in the long run. The university study I've been referencing says I'm good to go 2 weeks after emergence so I'm in the clear there. A week from today is when I plan to spray so we will see how the grass and weather are looking then. We are going on vacation next Wednesday so that's why I plan to spray Tuesday. I know the Bermuda will experience some moderate, but short-lived phytotoxicity. So hopefully by the time I return Sunday it will be coming out of it. I've also been mowing every other day at .5" so maybe the herbicides will slow down growth enough where I'm not massacring the 1/3 rule on return. It's young enough that I don't think I'd have any scalping issues I would rather not stress the grass even farther after the herbicide applications. We will just have to see what it looks like when I get back home. I don't really trust anyone else with the greensmower.

I think the yard could look decent this year if I can get rid of the goosegrass . I'm really looking forward to next year with a proper pre emergant barrier.

I know I've posted this picture before but I like have them next to each other. It really helps seeing the difference between days.

Day 21:









Day 30:


----------



## rhanna

Good luck with the goosegrass. I have it all over my yard and I don't remember ever seeing goosegrass before. Of course I've also never tried to id as many weeds as I have this year. I think I've already missed my window for most of the weeds in my yard and can't wait to fight the weeds next year with a strong pre emergent plan.


----------



## Redtenchu

You've set the standard for Bermuda renovations from seed, this has been excellent. I can't wait to see it at 45/60/90 days.


----------



## Tellycoleman

What herbicide are you going to use?
I think its to hot for MSMA


----------



## Pete1313

I love seeing the side-by-side photos. Definately makes it easier to see the progress. Keep up the good work J-nick! :thumbsup:


----------



## J_nick

Tellycoleman said:


> What herbicide are you going to use?
> I think its to hot for MSMA


I planned on spraying MSMA + Drive. I looked at photos from last year and I sprayed it on my lawn right around the 1st of July last year so I know the temperatures were similar. That was at 1.5oz/1000 and it yellowed the turf but it came back within a few days. I plan to spray around .75-.9oz/1000.


----------



## J_nick

I've emailed a few turfgrass professors about the use of MSMA at the higher temperatures and with newly planted grass. Fingers crossed hoping for a response.


----------



## J_nick

I got a quick response from one of the professors. His response was " I recommend spraying MSMA in the morning or evening when temperatures aren't severe. You should be fine." I followed up asking him about the MSMA/Drive combo. I'll report back when he does. Since Drive doesn't have any temperature restrictions I'm guessing it will be safe but I wanted to be 100% sure.


----------



## csbutler

J_nick said:


> I got a quick response from one of the professors. His response was " I recommend spraying MSMA in the morning or evening when temperatures aren't severe. You should be fine." I followed up asking him about the MSMA/Drive combo. I'll report back when he does. Since Drive doesn't have any temperature restrictions I'm guessing it will be safe but I wanted to be 100% sure.


I've been using drive on my crab grass and I've hit it a few times around mid day. 85-90 degrees The grass will have a slight discoloration for a few days but other than that it has bounced right back.

The grass is looking good btw :thumbup:


----------



## Mightyquinn

Looking great JN!! Can't wait to see where you are at towards the end of the season, bet it will be mostly filled in and lush.


----------



## Tellycoleman

I sprayed MSMA at 50cc per 1000square feet at 88 degrees last week and got significant browning. Alot of browning.
Alot alot alot of browning please be careful.
mature plants can handle it better than our babies.


----------



## J_nick

That's nearly double the rate I planned on spraying.


----------



## Tellycoleman

Cool. You know I was going to take a picture and show you. However I went outside and hey it was only temporary. Most if the color has come back. Soooo we are good. 
When I tried below 30cc per 1000sqft. I didn't get kill just stunting and yellowing. 
Are you going to broadcast or just spot spray?


----------



## J_nick

Thats good to hear Telly. I've talked to 3 different turfgrass professors this week. They all said that I should be fine, expect some burn but it will grow out of it.

Right now I plan to spray Sunday evening if the weather forecast stays the same. I'll be broadcasting the whole yard at .9oz/1000 MSMA and I'm going back and forth on if I'll be tank mixing Drive at 1.45oz/1000.

If the online conversion calculator is right then you first sprayed 30cc/1oz per 1000 then the latest was at 50cc/1.7oz per 1000. I'm glad to hear it can take a higher dose. I'll stick with my .9oz/1000 for the first spray. I figured it would take 2 sprays 2 weeks apart to get the goosegrass anyways so my 2nd app I might up the dosage. We will have to see when that time comes.


----------



## J_nick

Day 35 update:

Gave her a diagonal cut today. First herbicide treatment going down tonight.

Day 0 immediately after seeding:









Day 35:


----------



## Mightyquinn

Yard is looking great JN!!! It has some nice color too!


----------



## dfw_pilot

Stunning, JN. Beautiful work.


----------



## J_nick

Thanks fellas

I went ahead and sprayed tonight and by tonight I literally mean at night. Everything was telling me not to spray. I hooked the sprayer up to my lawn tractor and the pump wouldn't come on. After troubleshooting it for over an hour I got it running. Got everything mixed and the ball valve to the spray boom broke. I had an extra laying around so it was fixed in a matter of minutes. By this time 9:15ish the sun had set but I still had a little light.

I have a 17" LED light bar on the front of my lawn tractor and I went HEAVY on the tracker dye. I think my coverage was normal. I was relying on muscle memory instead of the tracker dye for the most part, it was a lot easier to see the wheel mark of the last pass than the dye.

I ended up with more water left in my sprayer than usual. From my math I think I was shorted the yard by about 10%. Hope I see some suffering weeds before I leave for vacation and green grass when I return that's not 2 inches tall. Someone want to come mow for me on Thursday or Friday?


----------



## J_nick

Lawn took the cut back down to .5" after 4 days without any issues. I cut it with the TruCut so I could catch the clippings.

Results from the herbicides have been promising. Crab grass was toast 2 days post spray. The goosegrass is not looking happy with bright lime green leaves, I think another spray within the next week will knock it out. I didn't notice any major ill effects on the Riviera from the herbicides. It was kind of dingy/dull for the couple days I was here to see it but less than I was expecting.

The front yard has the worst infestation of goose. Here is a pic of the angry goosegrass:


----------



## Iriasj2009

J_nick said:


> Lawn took the cut back down to .5" after 4 days without any issues. I cut it with the TruCut so I could catch the clippings.
> 
> Results from the herbicides have been promising. Crab grass was toast 2 days post spray. The goosegrass is not looking happy with bright lime green leaves, I think another spray within the next week will knock it out. I didn't notice any major ill effects on the Riviera from the herbicides. It was kind of dingy/dull for the couple days I was here to see it but less than I was expecting.
> 
> The front yard has the worst infestation of goose. Here is a pic of the angry goosegrass:


Coming along nicely jnick. I bet youre anxious for next season. Stay patient and soon all those weeds will be a thing of the past.


----------



## J_nick

Thanks Irias. There is still a couple months of growing season left. Once I get this wave of weeds that came up with the Riviera knocked out I think it will look very respectable not just for a renovation but in general.

I'll agree though that I am very anxious for next season. I already plan on a leveling job at some point next year. I swear this rabbit hole never ends.


----------



## Iriasj2009

J_nick said:


> Thanks Irias. There is still a couple months of growing season left. Once I get this wave of weeds that came up with the Riviera knocked out I think it will look very respectable not just for a renovation but in general.
> 
> I'll agree though that I am very anxious for next season. I already plan on a leveling job at some point next year. I swear this rabbit hole never ends.


I'm sure it will look great, but next year you will finally be able to get down to business, like scalping/sanding/verticutting haha.


----------



## J_nick

Iriasj2009 said:


> I'm sure it will look great, but next year you will finally be able to get down to business, like scalping/sanding/verticutting haha.


I've been debating on buying the Delta blades for my power rake. They are expensive for something I'd only use a few times a year. I need to take apart the flail blades on mine to see how difficult it would be to modify it to something similar to yours.


----------



## J_nick

Redtenchu said:


> I can't wait to see it at *45*/60/90 days.


Day 44 update: Lawn is chugging along. Yellow spots are from very unhappy goosegrass. Sorry Red it's not a day 45 update I like to take pictures of a fresh cut so it was either going to be Day 44 or 46

Day 30: Back yard









Day 44: Back yard









Day 44: Front yard, a lot more goose up here


----------



## Redtenchu

J_nick said:


> Sorry Red it's not a day 45 update I like to take pictures of a fresh cut so it was either going to be Day 44 or 46


I'll forgive you this time, but only because it looks so nice!

Nice job with germination and weed control!


----------



## J_nick

Haha thanks, I planned to spray again this weekend but everyday the goosegrass keeps looking worse and worse. To me the lawn still looks a little dingy since the last spray. Im debating waiting to spray till I see a little recovery from the weeds but this weekend is good weather to spray (high 80s during the evening). I'm also wanting to get some PGR down but I plan to wait till after the next herbicide application to see if the grass needs some recovery time. I also plan to raise the HOC to around 5/8" once the goosegrass dies.


----------



## Pete1313

Looking good J_nick! That goosegrass looks toast! Nice job getting at those weeds and taking care of them. :thumbsup:


----------



## J_nick

Pete1313 said:


> Looking good J_nick! That goosegrass looks toast! Nice job getting at those weeds and taking care of them. :thumbsup:


Thanks Pete, the Riviera is already taking advantage of the goosegrasses weakened state.










It will need another spray to knock it out completely plus probably some spot spraying here and there for any stragglers. As I said earlier I was debating spraying this weekend. I'm going to go ahead and do it, the weather window is just too good as long as the rain stays away. I'm not sure I'd see temps this cool for a while. It might not look cool by your cool season standards but it's been 100+ here for the last week and hit 108 Saturday


----------



## Pete1313

I like that pic.. almost like the Riviera is growing right up-and-over the goosegrass and smothering it.

Those temps are definitely not cool by my standards, but better than 108F!


----------



## Iriasj2009

J_nick said:


> Iriasj2009 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure it will look great, but next year you will finally be able to get down to business, like scalping/sanding/verticutting haha.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been debating on buying the Delta blades for my power rake. They are expensive for something I'd only use a few times a year. I need to take apart the flail blades on mine to see how difficult it would be to modify it to something similar to yours.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you could convert it like I did. On mine, the flail blades came off the shaft and I was left with a squared shaft. Bought some circular saw blades, added spacers and done. 
Lawn is looking tight!


----------



## J_nick

Put down 36# of fungicide. Not much leaf spot around but it was 21 days since the last app so I put it down.

A cold-ish wave came through highs are only in the low 90s. I skipped water today and didn't see any stress. I think with the grass reaching 100% coverage it's shading the soil not making it dry out as fast. I'm going to continue trying to skip days and see how it reacts.

I plan to spray my 2nd round of MSMA on the goosegrass tomorrrow evening it will be 13 days since the last app. The goose is still looking really bad so I plan to stay at the .9oz/1000 rate to knock it out.


----------



## J_nick

Put down the 2nd application of MSMA on the reno. 14 days since the last application. I didn't add any Drive this time, I was just wanting to targeting the goosegrass. Plus I thought it would be less stressful on the grass.


----------



## J_nick

Well it's been a week since I last updated. Weather has been fairly mild for this time of year. Even with the mild weather the 2nd round of MSMA tested the Riviera. While it didn't burn the grass or turn it brown I would definitely say there was some yellowing. The grass looks to be bouncing back now and the majority of the goosegrass looks like it won't be coming back.

Friday was 2 weeks since I put down .4#N/1000 of Milorganite so I was due for some fert. Decided it was time to stop spoon feeding and dropped 1#N/1000 of 26-0-2 Fast Green from Walmart. It has 6.5% slow realease and a whopping 7.8% Iron. Hopefully it helps with the yellowing from the herbicides. Definitely stained/rusted the concrete where some prills didn't make it to the lawn.

I also raised my HOC up to 5/8" (.625"). I'll make the first cut at the height tomorrow. I read an article that said the higher HOC the more carbohydrates the plant can make/store for winter. I might raise the HOC up to 3/4" come September but we will see when the time comes.

If everything keeps going like it has I plan to spray some PGR on it next weekend (weather permitting).

I read an article this week about seeding dates and came across something that surprised me. They seeded 4 different cultivars at 4 different times (April, May, June, and July all on the 15th of each month). They were researching winter kill of new seedlings with the various dates. The next spring at green up they dug up some samples to check out the roots and rhizomes. To their surprise they could not find any rhizomes from any of the test plots. I thought that was interesting.

Picture from last week Day 52 @ .5":


----------



## dfw_pilot

^^^ When did you lay sod?


----------



## J_nick

dfw_pilot said:


> ^^^ When did you lay sod?


Thanks DFW, the seeding has gone far better than anticipated. :banana: That picture doesn't show the yellowing from the herbicides. While it isn't horrible I just think the grass was darker before I stated the war on the goosegrass.


----------



## J_nick

Day 61 update: 5/8" HOC

Front yard: I need to trim up that vine it's getting wild









Back yard:









Back yard: Different angle


----------



## Spammage

That is really looking nice! :thumbup:


----------



## Redtenchu

Amazing! Almost makes me want to do this next year!!!

*Almost*


----------



## Pete1313

So jealous! Looks awesome! If I drove down there, would you let me mow it? :nod:


----------



## J_nick

Pete1313 said:


> So jealous! Looks awesome! If I drove down there, would you let me mow it? :nod:


Only if you let me jump on that triplex next time I'm in Illinois


----------



## J_nick

Spammage said:


> That is really looking nice! :thumbup:





Redtenchu said:


> Amazing! Almost makes me want to do this next year!!!
> 
> *Almost*


Thanks guys


----------



## Pete1313

J_nick said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So jealous! Looks awesome! If I drove down there, would you let me mow it? :nod:
> 
> 
> 
> Only if you let me jump on that triplex next time I'm in Illinois
Click to expand...

Haha, deal!


----------



## pennstater2005

Looking great J_nick!!! You guys make me want a reel mower :nod:


----------



## southernguy311

Very nice looking


----------



## J_nick

https://youtu.be/K8OC3QkVZBs


----------



## Pete1313

You make it look so easy! :thumbsup:


----------



## Tellycoleman

AWESOME
You can barely see the goose-grass anymore.
If you wouldnt have said anything I wouldnt have noticed it


----------



## J_nick

I finally jumped on the PGR train last night. Sprayed at .75oz/1000.


----------



## Iriasj2009

J_nick said:


> I finally jumped on the PGR train last night. Sprayed at .75oz/1000.


  :bandit: :thumbup:


----------



## J_nick

Well it's been 2 days since I last mowed and sprayed PGR. I can definitely tell the PGR threw the brakes on. If it wasn't for the stripes it would have been hard to tell where I had been. I'm going to wait 3 days for the next mow then I'll see if it can go any longer. Anyways text is boring here is some pictures of some single doubles



















Big spot of the old Bermuda on the bottom left of the second picture. I need to do something about that. It's right where a sprinkler head is so i didn't get as much stolons removed out of that area since I didn't want to hit the head with the Harley Rake. :evil:


----------



## wardconnor

Looking great. Wont be long until it looks like Wares lawn. How neat is that?

EDIT: I am digging the single double look. I think I will try that.


----------



## Ware

wardconnor said:


> How neat is that?


 :rofl:

Oh, and I think he's got me beat. :thumbsup:


----------



## dfw_pilot

B-E-A Yutiful.


----------



## J_nick

wardconnor said:


> Looking great. Wont be long until it looks like Wares lawn. How neat is that?
> 
> EDIT: I am digging the single double look. I think I will try that.





dfw_pilot said:


> B-E-A Yutiful.





Ware said:


> wardconnor said:
> 
> 
> 
> How neat is that?
> 
> 
> 
> :rofl:
> 
> Oh, and I think he's got me beat. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words fellas. Ware I appreciate the compliment but I think you still got me beat.


----------



## jayhawk

Picture makes long for the days where I grew up. Livestock, hay, and room for toys! (Except we had dandelions and brown fescue)

Edit: sorry, post belongs in his dedicated thread...not here


----------



## J_nick

jayhawk said:


> Picture makes long for the days where I grew up. Livestock, hay, and room for toys! (Except we had dandelions and brown fescue)
> 
> Edit: sorry, post belongs in his dedicated thread...not here


There you go, we moved it  we have around 9ish acres here. Wife has a horse but the only other animals we have are 2 cats and a dog. I keep the 13.5k area around the house nice and the north pasture gets pre emergant and mowed, it's about an acre. I put this sprinkler out there this year. Eventually I hope to expand the irrigation out that way to keep it really nice but I would need a lot more time than I currently have.

Everything in that square fenced in area is ours expect the house to the bottom left.


----------



## wardconnor

Sweet... No neighbors


----------



## Spammage

J_nick said:


> jayhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Picture makes long for the days where I grew up. Livestock, hay, and room for toys! (Except we had dandelions and brown fescue)
> 
> Edit: sorry, post belongs in his dedicated thread...not here
> 
> 
> 
> There you go, we moved it  we have around 9ish acres here. Wife has a horse but the only other animals we have are 2 cats and a dog. I keep the 13.5k area around the house nice and the north pasture gets pre emergant and mowed, it's about an acre. I put this sprinkler out there this year. Eventually I hope to expand the irrigation out that way to keep it really nice but I would need a lot more time than I currently have.
> 
> Everything in that square fenced in area is ours expect the house to the bottom left.
Click to expand...

Ummm...that is just absolutely screaming for a triplex.


----------



## J_nick

Spammage said:


> Ummm...that is just absolutely screaming for a triplex.


That's a dream of mine. It would take quite a bit of dirt work before the ground would be triplex worthy. With kiddo #3 on his way I don't see it happening anytime in the foreseeable future. Maybe in a few decades :lol:


----------



## dfw_pilot

Haha, with a third kid on the way, you spell Triplex: 529.


----------



## J_nick

It's been 5 days since spraying PGR. I cut 2 days afterwards with less than usual clippings. The cut today was 3 days between cuts and even less clippings. Like I had a hard time seeing clippings fly in front of the mower. I think .75oz/1000 is too strong for Riviera at least at this stage in its life. Next time I spray I'll probably jump down to the hybrid rates. Areas of higher traffic seem a little brown


----------



## Spammage

The label does say to apply the first app at 1/2 rate. I was told that primo would burn palisades, so I was careful with it and now am applying at nearly twice the recommended rate for zoysia with no ill effects.


----------



## J_nick

Spammage said:


> The label does say to apply the first app at 1/2 rate. I was told that primo would burn palisades, so I was careful with it and now am applying at nearly twice the recommended rate for zoysia with no ill effects.


It this the paragraph you are talking about


> The rates presented in the Application Rate Table provide approximately 50% growth inhibition over a 4-week period with little or no discoloration of turf growing under favorable conditions. If applications of Podium are made on a weekly or biweekly basis, *reduce the lowest rate in the table by at least 50% for the first application and monitor the turf growth to adjust application rate for the desired growth suppression*.


I took that as only if spraying on weekly or biweekly applications.


----------



## Spammage

You may be right - I will have to look at my label again. I do know that I've been successful in slowly increasing the app rate over time though. My last app rate of .45 oz/k showed no ill effects where a .35 oz/k rate caused some graying out last season. I'm wondering if part of your issue could also be that the turf isn't fully mature yet?


----------



## J_nick

I've been thinking the grass being so young might be the problem. Like giving adult medicine to a toddler.

Next spray I'll half the rate to see what happens. I won't have much time to play with it this year before the grass naturally slows down with the lower temps before dormancy.


----------



## J_nick

I pulled into my house today to see some dead spots thinking WTF happened. As I got closer I noticed little footprints. Turns out my Bermuda doesn't like bug spray :lol:


----------



## Colonel K0rn

J_nick said:


> I pulled into my house today to see some dead spots thinking WTF happened. As I got closer I noticed little footprints. Turns out my Bermuda doesn't like bug spray :lol:


 :lol: Looks like a small alien decided to apply some "OFF"


----------



## J_nick

Yesterday was 3 weeks since spraying PGR. Waiting for it to come out of regulation. Seems like the Bermuda in my area is naturally slowing down. I won't be spraying again this season and I'll play with the rates next season. .75oz was definitely stronger than it liked. Went from mowing every other day to 7-8 days and it really didn't need it.

I applied 1#/k of 40-0-0 100% slow realease tonight.


----------



## J_nick

Google updated their satellite image of my place during the renovation. I wish they would have waited till it was green :mrgreen:


----------



## Txmx583

Haha nice!!!


----------



## J_nick

Day 95 update: Stupid leaves, not sure why one of the trees decided to start dropping leaves in mid September. We've been having mid 50s in the mornings and around 90 for the highs although today it hit 101.

Back yard: 









Front yard:


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Man, that sure looks great, and the absence of goose grass is amazing.


----------



## Redtenchu

Well done J_Nick, I'm also confused about the how the trees are acting!


----------



## Pete1313

Beautiful!.. hard to believe it has been 95 days already. Nice work!


----------



## gatormac2112

New poster here, just wanted to say that the job you have done is very impressive! Its hard to believe how quickly the yard came to life. Nice work!


----------



## J_nick

gatormac2112 said:


> New poster here, just wanted to say that the job you have done is very impressive! Its hard to believe how quickly the yard came to life. Nice work!


Thanks I really appreciate it. I am still pleasantly surprised how well it has gone so far and I'm loving the texture/ color of the Riviera.

Welcome to TLF



Pete1313 said:


> Beautiful!.. hard to believe it has been 95 days already. Nice work!


Thanks Pete, I love checking in on your renovation. I'm a little behind on the cool season side but read your update earlier today, it's coming along nicely.



Redtenchu said:


> Well done J_Nick, I'm also confused about the how the trees are acting!


Are they doing it down in your part of the state too? I mean seriously the cool season guys aren't even b******* about having to mulch leaves yet.



Colonel K0rn said:


> Man, that sure looks great, and the absence of goose grass is amazing.


There is still some there if you know where to look. I overdosed the lawn with PGR about a month ago and was afraid to spot spray the goose that remains since the Bermuda wasn't growing at all. The Bermuda just started bouncing back about a week ago. I might spot spray the remaining goose if I get bored. I'd say I killed 95% of it so I'll chalk that up as a win and take care of it with pre emergant in the spring.


----------



## Pete1313

J_nick said:


> I mean seriously the cool season guys aren't even b******* about having to mulch leaves yet.


HEY!! You will never hear me b**** about mulching leaves.. I love it!


----------



## J_nick

Pete1313 said:


> J_nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> I mean seriously the cool season guys aren't even b******* about having to mulch leaves yet.
> 
> 
> 
> HEY!! You will never hear me b**** about mulching leaves.. I love it!
Click to expand...

But then my rider leaves tire tracks across my freshly striped lawn


----------



## Spammage

Looking great! I have a tree doing weird stuff too. Mine is dropping leaves while also putting on new growth.


----------



## Bunnysarefat

Spammage said:


> Looking great! I have a tree doing weird stuff too. Mine is dropping leaves while also putting on new growth.


Me too.


----------



## Iriasj2009

Looks great jnick!! Im really liking the color. I have to deal with my neighbors oak tree leaves so I feel you pain.


----------



## J_nick

J_nick said:


> .... I think .75oz/1000 is too strong for Riviera at least at this stage in its life. Next time I spray I'll probably jump down to the hybrid rates. Areas of higher traffic seem a little brown


I never showed any pictures of the overdose of PGR out of embarrassment but here we go 

This is a couple days post spray Aug 15th:









Here it is a week later looking dreary Aug 22nd:









This is one of the worst looking spots a few days later Aug 25:









And now a recent picture of it springing back to life Sept 14th:









I'll give PGR another try next year as I had awesome success with it last year. I'm not sure if it was the grass not being mature enough or too high of rate, either way it's coming out of it so I'll play around with the rates next year.


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks for the update. I want to play around with a primo app this fall on a new reno of KBG, but am worried that it won't play nice with the young turf as well. I might try a really low rate to start.


----------



## J_nick

Day 119 update:

The Riviera has been growing good. I kept thinking it is slowing down but It still needs mowed every 3rd day. I went 4 days last week and took off a little more than I would have liked. The common Bermuda that's mixed in and everywhere else is starting to look dull and in decline. Here is a picture on the north side of our double car garage it's normally the first to go dormant due to the lower sun. The Riviera is taking it way better than the common:










That's where I stopped the reno for a few different reasons but primarily that's where the irrigation stops. Here is a picture of me and the current state of the grass. It was taken September 30th it's the most current pic I have.










A cold front came through today :| low 40's tonight and high 30's for tomorrow night. We will see how the grass responds.


----------



## Spammage

Should be fine as long as there isn't any frost. Supposed to be back in the eighties in a couple days.


----------



## J_nick

Spammage said:


> Should be fine as long as there isn't any frost. Supposed to be back in the eighties in a couple days.


Yeah no chance of frost for the foreseeable future. Our average first frost date is Oct 15th so it's coming sooner or later. The only thing that looks consistent about my weather is the wind


----------



## jayhawk

Ahh..the wind, don't miss that ....just barns, acres ....maybe the ability to burn [email protected]? W/o anyone getting concerned...lol


----------



## Iriasj2009

Nice shot!!!


----------



## J_nick

Day 125:

Ran my irrigation last night for the first time in a while. The cooler weather definitely has slowed down the evaporation rates. I was needing to mow this morning before we left town at noon. Not wanting my mower to look like Chewbacca again I decided to improvise a dew whip. I filled up a hose with water to get some weight to it, then tied the ends together to make a loop. I tried a few different techniques like whipping it around me but the best was to double up the hose and drag it behind me. I let the grass dry for about an hour while I was making the kiddos breakfast.

Since I had a little extra time and the weather was nice I decided to mow some double wide (no DFW not the trailers) the picture was taken around 10am so it wasn't the best conditions for stripes: 









I also killed a mole :mrgreen:

Here is a roof shot from the other day:


----------



## pennstater2005

Wow...that looks nice!


----------



## Pete1313

Bonus points for the roof shot!


----------



## J_nick

pennstater2005 said:


> Wow...that looks nice!


Thanks man and Happy Birthday again hope you had a good day... and you got to spray that fungicide :mrgreen:



Pete1313 said:


> Bonus points for the roof shot!


I was painting some facia boards and thought while I was up there I might as well take a shot of the lawn. You know I gotta take some elevated shots to keep up with you :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

J_nick said:


> Thanks man and Happy Birthday again hope you had a good day... and you got to spray that fungicide


Thanks again and I did :thumbup:


----------



## J_nick

I gave the lawn a cut today. It might be the last of the year. A cold front is moving in later this week and the low for Friday is forecasted to be 31. It will be interesting how the Riviera holds up. The lawn has took a pale look this last week with the cooler night time temps and is barely growing but the Riviera is looking way better than the old Bermuda that's around it.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Curious, will the mole activity decrease?


----------



## Spammage

J_nick said:


> I gave the lawn a cut today. It might be the last of the year. A cold front is moving in later this week and the low for Friday is forecasted to be 31. It will be interesting how the Riviera holds up. The lawn has took a pale look this last week with the cooler night time temps and is barely growing but the Riviera is looking way better than the old Bermuda that's around it.


I've noticed the same thing with my zoysia. I think partly due to the temps, partly due to lack of sunlight, and partly due to lack of fertilizer as I normally would have fertilized about a week ago during the growing season. We aren't supposed to be as cold as you are, but mid-30s will likely slow it down even more.


----------



## J_nick

Colonel K0rn said:


> Curious, will the mole activity decrease?


I doubt it. I have a fairly heathy earthworm population to fed them. Every time my daughter puts her gymnastics mat on the grass worms come up to the surface like crazy. Finger crossed but the moles have mainly stayed along the fence lines and haven't venture out into the yard much.


----------



## J_nick

Spammage said:


> I've noticed the same thing with my zoysia. I think partly due to the temps, partly due to lack of sunlight, and partly due to lack of fertilizer as I normally would have fertilized about a week ago during the growing season. We aren't supposed to be as cold as you are, but mid-30s will likely slow it down even more.


My last fert app was around the first of September. It was slow release so I just planned for it to carry me till dormancy. It's just that time of year, night temps are in the low 40s high 30s and less than 11 hours of daylight. I had my weather app on the wrong town, my low for Friday is 29  it's bitter sweet as I love how much progress the lawn has made this year but about 3-4 cuts ago I was getting tired of mowing.


----------



## Pete1313

J_nick said:


> about 3-4 cuts ago I was getting tired of mowing.


Tired of mowing?!! What? Never!! :lol:
I kid. I am looking forward to the break after a long season as I'm sure you are as well.


----------



## Spammage

Pete1313 said:


> J_nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> about 3-4 cuts ago I was getting tired of mowing.
> 
> 
> 
> Tired of mowing?!! What? Never!! :lol:
> I kid. I am looking forward to the break after a long season as I'm sure you are as well.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I don't like being cold, and don't particularly like mowing, so why in Hell would I want to do them at the same time? :lol:


----------



## J_nick

After the 23.5°F we had Saturday morning it looks as if the lawn is going to sleep for the winter. I don't see any more freezing temps on the forecast so it might green up a little bit before going completely dormant. I'm not exactly sure. Ground temps are around 50-55°F.



















It looks worse in person


----------



## Colonel K0rn

I think this is only fitting...


----------



## Ware

Colonel K0rn said:


> I think this is only fitting...


LOL


----------



## Bunnysarefat

See you at the crossroads Riviera.


----------



## Tellycoleman

Mine looks the same way in the spots that had common bermuda. The Yukon is still green. Temp Monday was 28. We will see how it goes.


----------



## Bunnysarefat

We got down to 34-35 the other day. The forecast kept moving down as it got closer. I thought about watering throughout the night to try and avoid any damage but figured it would be fine. It's going to go dormant anyways no use trying to artificially extend the season. Now it's going to be 90 tomorrow and my lawn looks like crap with damage all over.

The top part that's flat is fine but this slope on the northern side is trashed.


----------



## J_nick

Tl;dr

I wanted to give a brief summary of the reno for anyone who finds this in the future so they can find most of the info in one spot. And it gives me an opportunity to post pictures of my green grass since it's 10° outside right now and the lawn has been dormant for some time now.

April 10th: sprayed the lawn with 1.9oz of 41% glyphosate + .55oz of Fusilade II per 1000 sqft.

April 25th: Power raked with flail blades in 2 directions then scalped as low as my TruCut would allow before the bedknife was hitting dirt. 









May 13th: After waiting for regrowth I sprayed the second round of 1.9oz of 41% glyphosate + .55oz of Fusilade II per 1000 sqft.

May 28th: More clean up. Stripes via the power rake









Most of the yard looked like this 









May 30th and 31st: Rented a Harley Rake to smooth out my lumpy lawn. Lots of hand raking stolons and rhizomes. I bet I raked up 50+ piles like shown below.










Over the next few days I ran a nail drag, drag mat and rolled the lawn a few different times. Removing more stolons/ rhizomes along the way.

June 2nd:


















June 11th: Day 0: Seed down. Ran the nail drag then the drag mat to loosen up the seedbed and final smoothing. Put seed down in 2 directions to get best coverage then raked the seed in.

Started to see a little germination on day 5, here is the same area on Day 7 and Day 9



















Day 15 after seeding I dropped starter fertilizer.

Day 17 after seeding. I was getting anxious and gave the lawn a cut. HOC was set at .5" although most of the grass wasn't that tall yet.










Day 19 after seeding I started to see some stolons appearing. The biggest difference happened between Day 17 pics and the Day 21 picture below










Day 26: Applied fungicide and fertilizer. Also reducing watering to 1 time per day. Goosegrass was starting to get out of control.

Day 30:









Day 35: 









I sprayed MSMA + Drive later on in the evening.

Day 41: Angry Goosegrass 









Day 44: Back yard









Day 44: Front yard, a lot more goose up here









Day 49: Sprayed MSMA 14 days after the first round. No Drive this time.

Day 52 @ .5": 









Day 61: 5/8" HOC

Front yard:









Back yard:









It was more of the same for the rest of the growing season. Mow, mow, mow with some fert here and there. There was a some unfortunate PGR damage along the way but it bounced back.

This is one of my favorite pics of the reno:









I'll update the tread once more in the spring to see how the green up goes. All in all it was a lot of work but the gratification is worth every drop of sweat.


----------



## Ware

Epic project. Congrats. :thumbsup:


----------



## Movingshrub

@J_nick , After Col Korn accidently said you sprigged your yard, I felt compelled to come re-read your reno thread. I was thinking - "J_Nick was holding out on sharing his sprigging experience while I was navigating blind! No way!"

After re-reading, I learn that wasn't the case but I do have a few questions.

Did you put down any pre-em after the seeds germinated? Did you put down a pre-em for the winter? To pre-emptively ask my follow up - why or why not? Was oxadiazon an option for you once the seed germinated and started to tiller?

Your goosegrass control looked like it went very well. I recall seeing Tellycoleman's Yukon renovation last year and the challenge he encounter controlling either goosegrass or crabgrass.

Why did you use a dethatcher if you were planning to use a Harley rake anyways? I'm not second guessing it, I just don't understand the value in doing it. I still plan to reno my front yard and am looking for ways to make my life easier. I also have sprinklers and will need to Harley rake around the sprinkler heads, or either remove/bury the sprinklers. Did you consider any other options than working around those areas by hand? I know I'll need to smooth out some uneven surfaces with a Harley rake and am trying to determine if I might actually be better off measuring/painting that area, removing the sprinkler head, capping the riser, grading, digging a new hole, and reattaching the sprinkler head. Both options seem like a lot of work.

Lastly, why did you opt to use fusillade? Was it a timeline issue? My growing season is May-August so I started applying apps of glyphosate in early April during green-up and did five applications, intent was three but rain showed up unexpectedly one day, and another time was just because I ended up having time, so figured no harm in helping ensure a complete kill. I don't know if I really needed to apply five times or not.


----------



## J_nick

@Movingshrub

Plan A was to spring with Latitude 36. The only farm that messed with sprigs close to me told me it wasn't economical for them to produce sprigs for only 10,000 sqft. They said I could piggyback off a bigger order, say if someone was doing an athletic field, but every time I called they hadn't received any big orders.

Plan B was to seed Riviera. While it's not L36 I've been very happy with it.

I haven't put down any PreM since the fall of 2016. Ronstar was considered but my overall weed pressure wasn't that bad other than the goose and crab which the MSMA did a number on. I was going to put down PreM during the fall but got lazy and didn't put anything down. I have a little Poa under a tree and a few broadleafs growing. I plan to mix up a gallon of 2,4D and hit the broadleafs in a couple days but I doubt I'll even use the whole gallon. The Poa will die in June with the heat so I'm not worried about it. I will be putting some down PreM after I scalp here in 2 weeks or so.

The goosegrass control was satisfactory. 2 apps of MSMA at 14 days apart killed 95% of it.

I used the dethatcher before the Harley Rake to get as much material off the lawn as possible. I didn't want it in the soil to decompose and cause random low areas later on. Even after that I filled a 5x14' stock trailer around 6 foot high with stolons during and after the Harley Rake.

I wish I would have done more work around the sprinkler heads manually. I just got as close as I could with the Harley Rake. After I was done I had to raise at least 50% of my 30 heads so marking them and capping them off wouldn't have been too much extra work and I think would have been worth the effort.

Lastly for why I added Fusilade to the glyphosate. The simple answer I read it somewhere. There's also another article that talks about it but my search from Walmart parking lot isn't pulling it up.


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## Movingshrub

J_nick said:


> @Movingshrub
> 
> Plan A was to spring with Latitude 36. The only farm that messed with sprigs close to me told me it wasn't economical for them to produce sprigs for only 10,000 sqft. They said I could piggyback off a bigger order, say if someone was doing an athletic field, but every time I called they hadn't received any big orders.
> 
> Plan B was to seed Riviera. While it's not L36 I've been very happy with it.
> 
> I haven't put down any PreM since the fall of 2016. Ronstar was considered but my overall weed pressure wasn't that bad other than the goose and crab which the MSMA did a number on. I was going to put down PreM during the fall but got lazy and didn't put anything down. I have a little Poa under a tree and a few broadleafs growing. I plan to mix up a gallon of 2,4D and hit the broadleafs in a couple days but I doubt I'll even use the whole gallon. The Poa will die in June with the heat so I'm not worried about it. I will be putting some down PreM after I scalp here in 2 weeks or so.
> 
> The goosegrass control was satisfactory. 2 apps of MSMA at 14 days apart killed 95% of it.
> 
> I used the dethatcher before the Harley Rake to get as much material off the lawn as possible. I didn't want it in the soil to decompose and cause random low areas later on. Even after that I filled a 5x14' stock trailer around 6 foot high with stolons during and after the Harley Rake.
> 
> I wish I would have done more work around the sprinkler heads manually. I just got as close as I could with the Harley Rake. After I was done I had to raise at least 50% of my 30 heads so marking them and capping them off wouldn't have been too much extra work and I think would have been worth the effort.
> 
> Lastly for why I added Fusilade to the glyphosate. The simple answer I read it somewhere. There's also another article that talks about it but my search from Walmart parking lot isn't pulling it up.


I am well aware of the challenge of getting a sod farm to supply sprigs. I was purchasing 200 bushels. The only way I was able to get my order was to drive several hours each direction to a sod farm that was harvesting sprigs that day for a football field. Aside from the challenge of getting the supplier, there was the challenge of nailing down a harvest date; that part was a nightmare.

The reason I asked specifically about ronstar is cause it's supposed to be really good against goosegrass. With that being said, I don't know how friendly it is to freshly seeded turf but it is permitted for sprigging applications.

The reason for the dethatcher makes sense now. I had never considered that aspect of the reno. I had a bunch of ground up stump debris that I spread all over the yard. Probably not the smartest move but I would've been making trip after trip to the landfill and who knows how many hours to shovel and move. My plan for this year is to use a dethatcher to harvest my own sprigs to replant my sidewalk strip. I am using that was my test run to see if I can harvest enough sprigs from my back and side yard to renovate my front next year.

I'm concerned about losing the sprinkler heads if I bury them. Also, I'm worried that the hassle of digging back up the riser and reinstalling the sprinkler may create more of a disturbance than I want to deal with; I might be better off just dealing with those areas by hand is what I'm getting at. The approach might just vary depending on where the sprinklers are located in the yard.

I get adding fusilade. I read it the Clemson pest control guidelines for professional turfgrass managers
management guide that glyphosate and fusilade can be used in two apps or you can do three apps of just glyphosate. After reading the MSU article, looks like fusilade is going to be in my mix in the future.


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## J_nick

I did consider Ronstar when I was planning on sprigging but I think most of the PreM's say not to put on seeded Bermuda until 60 days or so. This year I plan on doing split apps of Pendimethalin this spring then a 6 Month rate of Prodiamine around August.


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## Movingshrub

Thanks for answering my questions regarding the ground prep. Glad I could revive a thread from December of last year.

Any particular reason for the pendimethalin over the prodiamine? They seem to have very similar control and prodiamine isn't suppose to stain everything yellow like pendimetalin.


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## J_nick

Movingshrub said:


> Thanks for answering my questions regarding the ground prep. Glad I could revive a thread from December of last year.
> 
> Any particular reason for the pendimethalin over the prodiamine? They seem to have very similar control and prodiamine isn't suppose to stain everything yellow like pendimetalin.


I don't have much concrete but on what I do have I haven't noticed any yellowing, the one I have is Pendulum Auqacap and I think it's formulated to reduce the yellowing. I bought a 2.5 gal jug of it a few years ago so I still have some left. That's my main reason. I did trade some chems last fall and have enough Prodiamine to do a little over 1 acres worth at 6 month rate(which is one application for me).

Pendimethalin is one of few PreMs labeled for Sandburs. All other weeds I can tolerate but will do all I can to control that devil plant.


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## Movingshrub

Solid answer on the sandbur. Keep up the good work!


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## probasestealer

@J_nick this looks awesome. Probably the best bermuda seeded reno I've ever seen.


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## J_nick

Thanks @probasestealer, I was amazed myself by how well it turned out. I still have a few places that need to fill in. Mostly the southern part of my yard by the fence, 20+ mph southern winds everyday during the grow-in didn't let it germinate. Nothing a proplugger and time won't fix.

With the wacky weather we've had I'm still waiting for 100% greenup but it's improving everyday. Definitely coming it better than the neighbors or my unimproved Bermuda.


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## probasestealer

@J_nick I'm really interested to see the spread this summer and green-up this spring. I had a celebration bermuda plot at our last house, I was amazed by the lateral spread and response to nitrogen.


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## raldridge2315

@J_nick I have two area where large oak trees were removed last April. I have let the back filling settle over the past year. For grins and giggles, I took plugs with the Pro Plugger from my back yard on April 9 and put them down on these places. Most of the plugs were still partially dormant. This past week, they are beginning to put out runners. My thinking was if sod can be laid any time of the year, why can't plugs. Even though greenup is not complete, it's working. I will admit that there are a couple of plugs that I don't think will make it. Fixing that is easy. I have put down one application of nitrogen and potassium at one pound each per 1000. More N will go down next week.


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## J_nick

@raldridge2315 I'll probably wait to plug for a month or so I want everything to be growing aggressively. I might try to verticut and use the sprigs but I'm not sure how well that would work. It's not a very big area so the proplugger would make short work of it plus I wouldn't need to water the plugs as much as the sprigs.


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## J_nick

The title says it all, it's been 1 year since seed went down. The Riviera is doing great, I've been maintaining it at .375" this spring. It's the lowest I've ever maintained a grass. Before the reno the yard was so bumpy I'd hit dirt with a TruCut with roller at .4".

The lawn is a thick carpet which puts me in a bad spot as I can no longer use the granular fert I've always used in the past. I need to call around and find something greens grade and try it out. I just don't feel like jumping on the liquid fert train for some reason.

Traffic tolerance has been excellent even during dormancy. With 2 young kids and a full grown Golden Retriever the lawn gets treated rough but it's holding up awesome.

Here is a couple shots from today and I had to give it a birthday trim 




The one thing I would change about this reno would be to start killing the old Bermuda the year before the renovation. Get at least 2 if not 3 sprays during the growing season and plant some PRG for color in the late fall/winter then follow up with 2 sprays in the spring. I killed/removed a majority of it but there is still some in there. I'm going to let Darwin figure it out from here, let the strongest survive.

I think it's about time I start adding some landscaping


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## Pete1313

Looks awesome! Happy lawn birthday!


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## Redtenchu

Happy Lawn Birthday! I'm going to bake you a cake made of Milo!


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## Iriasj2009

J_nick said:


> I think it's about time I start adding some landscaping


Man looks great!!
I agree about the landscaping!


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## pennstater2005

​


Redtenchu said:


> Happy Lawn Birthday! I'm going to bake you a cake made of Milo!


That would make the house smell amazing! Looks great @J_nick!!


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## SNOWBOB11

That turf is so low and carpet like. Looks great.


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## Spammage

Looking great @J_nick!


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## ENC_Lawn

Awesome Results...

I'm just learning...so quick question.

Why the starter fertilizer at day 15 at not the same day as you applied seed?


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## J_nick

@ENC_Lawn

The reason for the delay is I really didn't need it. My soil test results said I was good on P&K, I just lacked N. I didn't want to put any N down until the plant could actually use it and to not feed the weeds that would have a jump start on the Bermuda. I could have just put down straight N but when I bought the bag of seed I got 1/2 price on a bag of starter fert so I just went with it.


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## ENC_Lawn

J_nick said:


> @ENC_Lawn
> 
> The reason for the delay is I really didn't need it. My soil test results said I was good on P&K, I just lacked N. I didn't want to put any N down until the plant could actually use it and to not feed the weeds that would have a jump start on the Bermuda. I could have just put down straight N but when I bought the bag of seed I got 1/2 price on a bag of starter fert so I just went with it.


10-4...Thanks!


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## g-man

@J_nick How the triplex worked for you this year? I stopped looking at the warm season side and forgot about it.


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## J_nick

g-man said:


> @J_nick How the triplex worked for you this year? I stopped looking at the warm season side and forgot about it.


It was too big for my main yard but worked good on my north acre. I couldn't keep up with watering out there and ended up selling it to a landscaping company who cuts a local football field.


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## joallen001

Is there any way to control common Bermuda in a new seeded Bermuda lawn. I have a lot of common and trying to decide on zoysia or Bermuda. I know common can be controlled in the zoysia but I haven't seen anything for controlling it for Bermuda varieties.


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## high leverage

joallen001 said:


> Is there any way to control common Bermuda in a new seeded Bermuda lawn. I have a lot of common and trying to decide on zoysia or Bermuda. I know common can be controlled in the zoysia but I haven't seen anything for controlling it for Bermuda varieties.


No control. You better focus on a complete kill. Multiple apps of glyphosate, mesotrione, clethodim or sethoxydim, and triclopyr. But there are other concoctions available some substitute fluazifop for Sethoxydim or Clethodim.


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## joallen001

I may be out of luck with Bermuda then since both neighbors have common Bermuda. And one of them is treated. Unless there is Bermuda that will over power the common.


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## J_nick

joallen001 said:


> I may be out of luck with Bermuda then since both neighbors have common Bermuda. And one of them is treated. *Unless there is Bermuda that will over power the common*.


I'm still testing this out. I have common surrounding my Riviera. All this year it was a stalemate on the perimeter. I also didn't get 100% kill in the yard. I'd say the Riviera is winning that battle. Early in the year I could find common here and there but towards the end of the year it seemed like there was less common.


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## Greendoc

Low mowing stresses the common types.


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## Movingshrub

high leverage said:


> joallen001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any way to control common Bermuda in a new seeded Bermuda lawn. I have a lot of common and trying to decide on zoysia or Bermuda. I know common can be controlled in the zoysia but I haven't seen anything for controlling it for Bermuda varieties.
> 
> 
> 
> No control. You better focus on a complete kill. Multiple apps of glyphosate, mesotrione, clethodim or sethoxydim, and triclopyr. But there are other concoctions available some substitute fluazifop for Sethoxydim or Clethodim.
Click to expand...

I did the multiple apps of glyphosate, mesotrione, triclopyr and fluazifop cocktail. I had not considered clethodium or sethoxydium. For me the only other contender was sencor, to go after the zoysia I was trying to smoke at the same time. Concerning clethodium, I've read mixed results on whether it will target all bermuda versus does more damage to common vs hybrid.


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## g-man

From all I read (no experience), pylex is a good way to control Bermuda.


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