# Panner's creeping red fescue and PRG Journal



## panner (Aug 20, 2019)

Hello, getting started with my lawn.

In 2018 I flattened a gentle sloping hillside and rolled out 900 sq ft of Creeping Red Fescue in my backyard. My reason for choosing this type of grass was because, one, I'm in a fairly dry climate (Boise Idaho) and two, I really like how fescue looks on golf courses. As you can see from the pictures below, my goal is to cut the fescue short on the flat area and lets it grow long on the terraced slope. My big question right now is how low can I mow fescue? I want to maintain a really sharp edge between the short and tall grass.

I've got bigs plans this fall to sand level and get on a fertilizer schedule. I would love any feedback. excited to become part of this community! Thanks.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

panner said:


> Hello, getting started with my lawn.
> 
> In 2018 I flattened a gentle sloping hillside and rolled out 900 sq ft of Creeping Red Fescue in my backyard. My reason for choosing this type of grass was because, one, I'm in a fairly dry climate (Boise Idaho) and two, I really like how fescue looks on golf courses. As you can see from the pictures below, my goal is to cut the fescue short on the flat area and lets it grow long on the terraced slope. My big question right now is how low can I mow fescue? I want to maintain a really sharp edge between the short and tall grass.
> 
> I've got bigs plans this fall to sand level and get on a fertilizer schedule. I would love any feedback. excited to become part of this community! Thanks.


Welcome to the forum!
I think this is a neat project. Newer cultivars of TTTF can be mowed quite low. I live in the transition zone, and my TTTF has easily handled a cut of 2.5 throughout the summer. With your climate, you could go lower, I would think. Unfortunately, I don't know how any of this would apply to creeping red fescue, and I don't know anything about that kind of fescue. I seem to recall one forum member who was toying around with the idea of short-cut grass next to tall grass. If I can find the person, I'll mention them.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

There are probably a healthy number of forum members who are familiar with creeping red fescue, but @Rule11 is the forum member that I had in mind. @ksturfguy might also be familiar with it.


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## Rule11 (May 5, 2018)

I have tried lots of combinations. But fescue has never been 1 in my area for the Poa takes over. So I currently have been toying with Creeping Bluegrass surround by PRG. I have begun to battle the Poa with Poa. Love the experiment.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

I do have a small section of my yard that is fine fescue, I didn't plant it so can't say for sure if it's creeping red or what variety. For the most part fine fescue is used in heavily shaded areas or low maintenance areas. It doesn't require as much fertilizer and it's not very heat resistant.

As far as HOC I think you will have no issues cutting it fairly short, 2.5" or shorter. I believe there is another forum member on here who has a fine fescue yard who mows low.

Personally I think if you were looking for that golf course short vs really tall grass look then you maybe should have went with a turf type tall fescue.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

@PNW_George is who I was thinking of with an amazing looking fine fescue lawn. Not sure what his cultivars are.


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## panner (Aug 20, 2019)

Thanks for all the feedback! I live in a strange climate. It's 100 degrees today which is typical during the summer however in the winter it can be below 0F for a few weeks. I was always told fescue was fairly drought tolerant as the roof system went deep down to capture water. Anyways, now I'm stuck with the fescue!

Here are a few more pictures from tonight of a spot in my yard that gets scalped by the mower (its on a slight hill). Although there is a lot of brown grass (thatch?) there is some green which is being cut ~.75". So maybe my fescue can be cut short as long as I get on a fertilizer schedule?


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

panner said:


> Thanks for all the feedback! I live in a strange climate. It's 100 degrees today which is typical during the summer however in the winter it can be below 0F for a few weeks. I was always told fescue was fairly drought tolerant as the roof system went deep down to capture water. Anyways, now I'm stuck with the fescue!


Your correct about fescue but we are talking 2 different types of fescues. There is a Turf Type Tall Fescue and then Fine Fescue which is what you have. The type of fescue you have is not as drought or heat tolerant as some Turf Type Tall Fescues.

I'm not saying the type of fescue you have won't work, because it might, I just wanted you to know there are two different types of fescues.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

As ksturfguy has mentioned, Fine Fescue is not typically a warm or sun loving grass, its what they use in shade mixes because it thrives in the shade and melts in the sun, it will be the first to brown out of the 4 (Fine Fescue, PRG, KBG, and finally Tall Fescue)

I hate to be the guy, but ill say it, you may have planted the wrong fescue if your looking for drought tolerance. That isnt thatch, its the grass going dormant in the sun and there isnt much you can do about it. That said fine fescue will probably cut low better than any Turf Type Tall Fescue(TTTF).

You can keep watering it and if your happy with the way it looks than great, being a creeping variety it should fill in pretty thick over the not so warm or cold months. What i'm a little concerned about if i'm perfectly honest is snow mold, fine fescue has a habit of falling on itself if it gets too tall, which leads to matting, which will lead to all kinds of diseases if your under snow for weeks or months like much of the north.

I'd say to mow it low like you are and make sure you keep it low before the snow comes and you cant get at it for several months. I'd hate to see it all matted and dead in Spring 2020.

Also you need to be more cognoscente of what Herbicides you put down, many will kill Fine fescue if applied at full rate, or at all.


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## panner (Aug 20, 2019)

Well crap. At least I like working on my lawn. At this point what I think I'll do is see how well it greens up in the fall and how well the fescue does over the winter. At my elevation, we typically don't have snow coverage all winter; just cold temperatures.

Also, I think I'll take on a leveling project this Fall. That way, if I want to reseed next year the soil will be in good condition.

Quick question: sand leveling vs. dirt leveling? I have concerns about using sand as it could be ~1" thick some areas. Is that too thick for a sand layer. Should I use top soil instead? Thanks!


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## panner (Aug 20, 2019)

Alright, its 2020!!

My lawn is greening up nicely. I've still got the creeping red fescue but based on the responses and feedback I'm going to make some changes (thanks for the advice). As you can see from the picture below I just completed a sand leveling project. It went well and the grass is already starting to poke through three days after applying the sand.

I really like the looks of the fescue on the steep terrace sections (even though it starts to hibernate in the summer heat) but I'm planning to overseed the flat sections with PRG. I'd like to keep these section really short and think the PRG will hold up better to a low cut. The steep terrace sections I'll let grow long and establish a sharp edge of tall grass transitioning to short grass. I figure the PRG will eventually win out if I continue to mow low.

Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## panner (Aug 20, 2019)

So the red fescue is starting to poke back through the sand leveling. The weatherman promised 65F temps this week but it's only 51F today! I really want to get overseeding with the PRG but I'm going to wait for higher soil temps. I'm definitely over 1" deep of sand in some areas so I'm guessing I'll have bare patches until I get the new seed down. Everything is still pretty level after .5" of rain. I uses a 36" landscaping rake for leveling. Although it doesn't work as well as an actual leveling rake, I'm happy with the results. I took some video of my technique and will try to post later.


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## panner (Aug 20, 2019)

Most people use use straw to cover new grass seed. I prefer dog fur.


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## panner (Aug 20, 2019)

Backyard golf course video, hah!

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39RUPdo95pg&feature=emb_logo[/media]


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## panner (Aug 20, 2019)

Lawn coming in nicely but I'm getting these small weird dirt spots. worm castings? how do you get rid of them?


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Let them dry and drag something over them. If you have a doormat made of cocoa, that would work well. If you're not familiar with them, they should be on the big box stores/Amazon websites. We sometimes use cocoa drag mats on our infields at work (softball). FYI-I bought mine for work at Beacon Athletics.com. That is a good source to refer to regarding cocoa mats, in general.


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## panner (Aug 20, 2019)

I need some advice. I planted a creeping fescue that is not holding up in our 90 degree heat. As you can see from the picture above, I have been over seeding with Rye grass starting last fall and into the spring of 2020. I'd like my lawn to be mainly rye, and as you can see from the first picture it's starting to win out as the fescue is dying back from the heat. Would it be better to continue to overseed, or should I smoke everything off and start fresh in the fall? Can I be successful switching from mainly fescue to mainly rye by just over seeding? As soon as fall starts, my plan would be to scalp the lawn, do a light sand leveling and then overseed with rye. Or would my time be better spent by killing off everything and reseeding the entire lawn?

If you go back through my journal, I wanted a fescue because I really like the golf-course look of really long rough next to really short cut grass. I just wish I would have planted the fescue only on the steep bank and planted the rye on the flat area. Live and Learn I guess. 
Thanks.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Beautiful property! I would say that it depends on how much patience you have to continue overseeding with PRG. If you're seeing progress with the overseeds, maybe stick it out. If you want uniformity and quicker gratification, smoke it. As you know from experience, the PRG will establish quickly and you will be mowing very soon.


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