# Swardman/Allett Long Term Reliability



## artb (Jul 17, 2019)

Hey everyone, apologize in advance if this is beating a dead horse.
Currently looking to add to the fleet, and get something with a cartridge system. I currently have a Toro GM1600 which is great, but would be nice if it could do some other processes on the lawn that require more machines.
The options at the moment for such mowers seem to only be the Allett, Swardman, and the less known Dennis.
I was very interested in the Electra because of the battery operation and wider width than the Liberty 43. Also, in reading peoples reviews of the Allett they seemed to have issues with plastic parts breaking. The Swardman cartridges also seem to be higher quality than the Allett with metal pulleys vs. plastic gears. 
On marketplace here there seems to be a few Edwin 2.1s for sale and those also seem to have quality issues ie: drums splitting, cables breaking prematurely, issues with the plastic differential gears, etc. Also seems that the Electras have less issues than the Edwin? Is it because there are less of them around or are they just less problematic?
The Dennis seems to only be in the UK, besides cricket fields and bowling greens around my area.

Im curious to hear from long time owners of the Swardmans or Alletts about the reliability of them. At around 6k CAD (configured my way) they do the same job but trying to weigh out which one is more worth it (quality, support wise). The battery situation on the Alletts does seem annoying with not being able to get the local greenworks ones and instead having to be the UK version.
The Stirling model is sweet and seems to address all the previous owner complaints, but at 8k+ CAD BEFORE adding an EGO battery and charger, my conscience stops me from pulling the trigger.
I am handy and more than willing to work on the machines myself if need be to replace parts etc but it is not something i want to deal with seasonally. 
So for those with experience with the mentioned machines, what has your ownership experience been like?


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

For $6K, you could pick up a bunch of dedicated equipment that would all be of much higher quality than the Swardman or Allett Liberty offerings. It won't be battery - but right now there is a large premium on battery powered equipment due to demand.

The major downside of going with gas, is engine storage. But if you are meticulous with how you put up your toys, should be no issue.

I'm right there with you on wanting to electrify some of my fleet. But I just haven't seen any battery reels I'd consider anywhere near the level of a true greensmower. The big Stirling may fit the bill, especially for those with smaller lawns, but at it's price point - I really would want to hang back for a season and see how the early adopters make out. If it's everything they promise, by all means, reward them with a large purchase like you are considering.

@Reelrollers has hinted at having something in the works too. Cartridge based? Who knows... but while waiting to see how the Stirling pans out, maybe they'll spill the beans.

I wasn't aware that the Greenwork's batteries differed by region/country within the same platform. That's wacky. :bd:


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## artb (Jul 17, 2019)

MasterMech said:


> For $6K, you could pick up a bunch of dedicated equipment that would all be of much higher quality than the Swardman or Allett Liberty offerings. It won't be battery - but right now there is a large premium on battery powered equipment due to demand.
> 
> The major downside of going with gas, is engine storage. But if you are meticulous with how you put up your toys, should be no issue.
> 
> ...


For sure but I want to avoid having a bunch of machines. Thats why looking into the cartridge system mowers. Im not opposed to having something with an engine either, although I would like to electrify the fleet at some point but as you said theres a premium for the battery equipment.
Yea ill be keeping my eye out on how the new Stirling owners make out
What has @Reelrollers hinted at?
Yea I read it somewhere on a thread about the batteries not being the same.


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

Perhaps, @jimbeckel can give you his opinion. He owns an Allett that he is about to sell as well as a Toro GM1000 and some JD 180SL's. His rebuild threads gives him a lot of credibility.


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

I've owned a Dennis FT510 for 3 yrs now. The Dennis is a tank. It's compares to a commercial Allett. I have a 10 blade cartridge along with the Tungsten 2mm verticutter and scarifier cartridges. The local Toro Dealer sharpens the reel for me.
Heads and Shoulders above the homeowner Allett as my uncle has one. Swardman are bad news in my opinion.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

I would set money on fire before handing it over for a swardman.

For those prices, as mentioned, you could find some used or off lease machines to do your tasks. I would pick the most important one. Downside is space, but I'd rather buy a machine that does one task great than one that does 4 tasks kind of sloppy.


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## jimbeckel (May 27, 2018)

artb said:


> Hey everyone, apologize in advance if this is beating a dead horse.
> Currently looking to add to the fleet, and get something with a cartridge system. I currently have a Toro GM1600 which is great, but would be nice if it could do some other processes on the lawn that require more machines.
> The options at the moment for such mowers seem to only be the Allett, Swardman, and the less known Dennis.
> I was very interested in the Electra because of the battery operation and wider width than the Liberty 43. Also, in reading peoples reviews of the Allett they seemed to have issues with plastic parts breaking. The Swardman cartridges also seem to be higher quality than the Allett with metal pulleys vs. plastic gears.
> ...


I bought a used Allett Kensington 17B, it is not a commercial grade mower, the downsides are the cheap throttle mechanism in the handle (I replaced it and put an aftermarket throttle cable and lever on). The height of cut dial broke twice, so I just adjust the HOC knob and make a pass and either raise or lower based on the cut. The pluses are the different cartridges. I bought the scarifier, aerator, verticutter, brush and extra reel. Surprisingly the brush is really great at picking core aeration plugs, cuts down raking them by hand. You still can't beat a greens mower for durability and cut quality. Knowing what I know now, I would've been disappointed shelling out full retail on the Allett but I got it for a steal so it does what it needs for me.


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## artb (Jul 17, 2019)

Shindoman said:


> I've owned a Dennis FT510 for 3 yrs now. The Dennis is a tank. It's compares to a commercial Allett. I have a 10 blade cartridge along with the Tungsten 2mm verticutter and scarifier cartridges. The local Toro Dealer sharpens the reel for me.
> Heads and Shoulders above the homeowner Allett as my uncle has one. Swardman are bad news in my opinion.


@Shindoman I found out about Dennis after reading your thread actually. The machine looks solid. Amazing lawn by the way! 
In your opinion, with the verticutter and scarifier cartridges does it leave anything to be desired? Or do they perform just as good as a dedicated machine? In the demo videos Ive watched it seems to perform great and I think at the end of the day for what i need it for, it'll exceed my needs lol
Why exactly makes Swardman bad news in your opinion?


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## artb (Jul 17, 2019)

jimbeckel said:


> I bought a used Allett Kensington 17B, it is not a commercial grade mower, the downsides are the cheap throttle mechanism in the handle (I replaced it and put an aftermarket throttle cable and lever on). The height of cut dial broke twice, so I just adjust the HOC knob and make a pass and either raise or lower based on the cut. The pluses are the different cartridges. I bought the scarifier, aerator, verticutter, brush and extra reel. Surprisingly the brush is really great at picking core aeration plugs, cuts down raking them by hand. You still can't beat a greens mower for durability and cut quality. Knowing what I know now, I would've been disappointed shelling out full retail on the Allett but I got it for a steal so it does what it needs for me.


Yea all the plastic parts in important areas of the mower really make me want to stay away from the Alletts. Lots of posts about replacing parts. And although easy enough to do, I've got enough projects at home, don't need to get myself into another one improving someone else's mower design lol
I appreciate the input @jimbeckel especially since there aren't many used Alletts for sale near me so I'd more likely have to get it new


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

artb said:


> Shindoman said:
> 
> 
> > I've owned a Dennis FT510 for 3 yrs now. The Dennis is a tank. It's compares to a commercial Allett. I have a 10 blade cartridge along with the Tungsten 2mm verticutter and scarifier cartridges. The local Toro Dealer sharpens the reel for me.
> ...


The Dennis does everything really well. Amazing quality of cut. I just had the reel sharpened for only the second time. It really holds a sharp edge for a Long time. 
The 2mm tungsten verticutter is pretty aggressive so I only use it twice a year. The scarifier is something you could use once a month and the turf recovers very quickly. 
Very easy to adjust HOC and bedknife clearance. The handlebars look odd but are extremely comfortable and it's very maneuverable. It's very quiet for a gas mower. 
As far as the Swardman, I was all set to buy an Electra when they first announced them. But the more I looked into it, the more I questioned it's durability. The design of the handlebars having a narrow attachment point to the mower seemed like it would be an issue. The fact it was so much lighter than a proper greensmower is a telling tale. I paid $3k more for the Dennis with attachments than a comparable Electra. 
I know I made the right choice after reading all the issues members on TLF have been having. I'll own this Dennis until I get too old to cut my own lawn. 
If you are willing to spend the extra money, getting a Dennis or Commercial Allett is the way to go in my opinion.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

artb said:


> ...
> Why exactly makes Swardman bad news in your opinion?


I know you didn't ask me but I've been loosely following the Swardman mowers since they introduced the Edwin 2.0. As much as I want to see them succeed, they have some design and manufacturing issues to iron out before they can earn a 5-star recommendation.

There have been issues with the handles tearing off the Edwin 2.0s, I believe this was fixed with the current Edwin 2.1 however.

It seems as if it's a matter of when, not if, the rear traction roller will fail. The detailed photos I've seen posted here on TLF show poor quality tack welds holding the assembly together. Not sure if it's related or not, but a great deal of the drums seem to be destroying the plastic gears in the differential assembly.

The first run of Electra's seemed to generate complaints re: Battery Failures (not intended to be user serviceable) and control board failures.

The reel's can be a bit finicky to adjust properly, Reel Rollers put out a few videos on exactly how to adjust them properly. This is just my opinion, but sacrificing simplicity of adjustment for component cost was a misstep on Swardman's part. This was a very common issue with brand new machines. They rattle out of adjustment during shipping (understandable) and the new owner spends a couple frustrating hours trying to get the reel cartridge cutting properly again. All before the machine cuts the lawn for the first time.

The warranty is a bit dodgy IMO too. You don't have to search far to find out that the mower warranty is valid ONLY to the original purchaser. Anybody who bought a used, but relatively new machine and experienced a major failure, was denied warranty coverage. I'm not sure if this was true for everybody, but it seems that most owners were on the hook to perform the repairs themselves with new parts provided by Swardman.

There are a couple small things that bug me as a mechanic/engineer (Disc: I do not own a Swardman). They specify that the reel drivebelt is to be tightened lightly so as to avoid damage to the reel in the event that it strikes a stick/rock/nut/etc. in the lawn. While I don't recommend running such things through any reel mower, it is predictive to the lack of durability. The other is that when the engine is brought to full-rpms, many users complain of how loud the machine rattles. The official answer is to simply not run at full speed. Say what? These are $3,000 mowers, and these traits wouldn't be acceptable on a a $300 machine, let alone $3k.


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## artb (Jul 17, 2019)

@Shindoman I appreciate the input! The Dennis looks like it checks all the boxes as far as practicality and durability go while not sacrificing quality. I found a used unit with cartridges included and it seems to be running well. Ill need give it some TLC but shouldn't be anything major. Just need to sort out shipping now.

@MasterMech No worries, thanks for the info as well. I also saw those pictures showing the tacks in the rollers, but the plastic differential parts is what really made me rethink them. As you said, it is predictive of the lack of durability. Coming from the automotive world and working on different cars I've come to really appreciate when engineers don't compromise quality parts and practical designs that make it easy to do maintenance for the sake of cutting cost.
I wasn't aware of the battery failures or the warranty issues you pointed out though so thank you. The only Electras I've "seen" are Ryan Knorr's and Ben from lawn tips and neither really talk about issues they have with them. But maybe they haven't ran into anything yet.

I think my mind is pretty made up at this point. Been obsessing over this for weeks now, trying to plan for the next season. If everything works out i should be joing @Shindoman in the Dennis FT club


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

@artb Thats great! I didn't realize you are in Canada. I bought mine from Bannerman Turf in Toronto area. George Bannerman is very nice to deal with and they stock spare parts. What width FT are you looking at? Post a pic when you can.


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## artb (Jul 17, 2019)

@Shindoman yessir! im just 30 mins east of Toronto. I've talked to George a couple of times now and he has been great to deal and very willing to help with the process as well. I'm actually looking at the FT430. I want a smaller machine that i can maneuver a bit easier around my yard. I've got alot of curves and obstacles and will only be adding more in the future lol. Currently using a GM1600 which is massive and I've got it figured out now but it is still a beast that i have to manhandle in some areas of my yard. Adding the extra couples of minutes to mowing due to the narrower width just means i get to listen to more music while doing it


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

artb said:


> ....
> 
> I also saw those pictures showing the tacks in the rollers, but the plastic differential parts is what really made me rethink them. As you said, it is predictive of the lack of durability.
> 
> ....


I'd be fine with the plastics if the structure of the roller held up!


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