# Army worms what now



## Tate549 (Oct 2, 2020)

I was hit with army worms so I sprayed a few applications of bifen and Triazicide and it appears it has taken care of them. I raked the dead grass and reseeded the areas yesterday. When watering the areas this morning these were coming out of the grass which I assume are the army worms/moths. Are they laying eggs again? Is there a round 2 coming and what needs to be done to try and get on top of things before it gets out of hand again.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Same steps as round 1. Lots of us Bifen every 30 days.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

I would alternate insecticide groups and I would certainly spray multiple times per month. I would also include an insect growth regulator such as Tekko. I also recommend talking to your neighbors and recommending treatment. For my sake, I spray my neighbors lawns regularly.


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## WarTide (Jul 8, 2020)

I'm on my 2nd round of worms. First round in early Aug decimated my 16K back yard. Went on vacation for 2 weeks. When we got home almost everything had been eaten. Sprayed triazicide, then Sevin, and then Cutter 3 days apart each. Basically whatever Lowes had in stock. Got that attack under control and my bermuda started to recover nicely. Last application of Cutter was 4 weeks ago.

Got to stay on top of them. I waited too long and now have them back. Yesterday I noticed some browning along the back fence. Woke this morning and they've already eaten 15 ft into the back yard again. Sprayed Cutter heavy along the fence line and at the label rate over the rest of the yard. We should be seeing dormancy soon. It was 49 this morning.

We have a 10 acre field behind our house that gets no treatments. I suspect that's where they're coming from.


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## Jagermeister (May 18, 2021)

Austinite said:


> I would alternate insecticide groups and I would certainly spray multiple times per month. I would also include an insect growth regulator such as Tekko. I also recommend talking to your neighbors and recommending treatment. For my sake, I spray my neighbors lawns regularly.


What does your program look like? What other chems are you rotating in? Seems like most are just spraying bifen & imidacloprid.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

Jagermeister said:


> Austinite said:
> 
> 
> > I would alternate insecticide groups and I would certainly spray multiple times per month. I would also include an insect growth regulator such as Tekko. I also recommend talking to your neighbors and recommending treatment. For my sake, I spray my neighbors lawns regularly.
> ...


I keep a ton of Insecticides on hand. I alternate regularly. When the insects are abundant in the lawn, like this summer, I treat the lawn weekly. Otherwise once monthly. I spray one week, then spread granules the next, etc etc.. Some folks might think that once weekly is too aggressive and/or excessive. For most insecticide groups, it's unlikely and quite rare to cause any damage when instructions are followed.

Why Weekly? Take Army or Cut worms for example. A single moth can lay 100 to 300 eggs. We will be conservative and use the small number as an average. These 100 eggs from 1 moth will hatch in 3 to 4 days. If you see 1 moth in your lawn, that means you have 50 to 100 more laying eggs and taking off. 50 moths x 200 eggs = 10,000 army worms. TWICE a week. These numbers are very conservative, but it shows you how the population grows rapidly in such a short span.

I know many are believers in spray for treating underground insects because it's labeled for it. I'm sure they have their reasons, but personally, I would never subscribe to the idea. Granule insecticides are _far _superior in penetrating into the soil (with the exception of Sevin SL) Again, this is my experience and opinion only and doesn't negate the importance of spraying.

Insects can develop what's called Acquired Resistance. When you use the same Class/Group insecticide for extended periods, their eggs develop a resistance, so the newly born insects can become resistant, so will their eggs as well and so on. This is also why it's important to use Insect Growth Regulators (IGR) periodically so that insects do not mature and cannot reproduce. Most insects stay put. They're in the lawn or somewhere nearby for many generations. IGR is how you control the population.

Similarly with fungicides, you should alternate Fungicide groups as well as funguses can also develop resistance to the mode of action used by a product.

Here are the common ones I use most:

Spray Products - in the Pyrethroid family, I use either Bifen XTS or D-Dense SC. Sevin SL for Carbamates class (Phenomenal product for virtually instant results).

Granules - Talstar XTRA (By far the most successful granule product for me) This is in the Organophosphate family. Also, Merit 0.5g or Dylox 6.2 from the Neonicotinoids group.

For fast knock-down, I add ExciteR to anything sprayable. Usually only when spraying the entire house inside and out. For IGR, I use Tekko which can be tank mixed with anything.

I use others like Alpine WSG, Permethrin, TalstarP, Bifen LP and DeltaGard G.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

I used bifenthrin as a curative and Grub Ex as a preventative. Grub Ex has chlorantraniliprole as the active ingredient. VA Tech recommended Acelepyrn which has chlorantraniliprole:
https://vaturf.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/General-armyworm-update-for-LCOs-and-clientele.pdf
It remains to be seen if this combination worked. I keep doing drench tests. None so far but I had lots of moths not long ago so eggs are around somewhere in the neighborhood.
@Austinite Do you have any experience with chlorantraniliprole?


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

Virginiagal said:


> I used bifenthrin as a curative and Grub Ex as a preventative. Grub Ex has chlorantraniliprole as the active ingredient. VA Tech recommended Acelepyrn which has chlorantraniliprole:
> https://vaturf.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/General-armyworm-update-for-LCOs-and-clientele.pdf
> It remains to be seen if this combination worked. I keep doing drench tests. None so far but I had lots of moths not long ago so eggs are around somewhere in the neighborhood.
> @Austinite Do you have any experience with chlorantraniliprole?


I have not used Chlorantraniliprole. I try to avoid Scotts products to be honest, I'm sure it works and it's all in my head about "Scotts", but if I ever use Chlorantraniliprole it will likely be a Syngenta product. I use their commercial fungicides with impeccable results so they have my trust. Syngenta.

From store-bought though, I have used Bio-Advanced Grub Control which is has Imidacloprid as the active ingredient and it worked fine. This was a couple years ago though.

Recently, every single one of my neighbors were hit with Armadillos digging up their yards for grubs and worms. Across the street and both to my left and right. They do some nasty damage, but my lawn was not touched. The lawn being super think and low contributes to that, but Armadillos can sniff out Grubs so they know exactly where to dig.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Acelepyrn is a Syngenta product with chlorantraniliprole. I like the idea of chlorantraniliprole because it is systemic (gets incorporated into the grass itself) and not just a contact killer and protects for 3 months. Also it is a reduced risk pesticide and does not harm bees and birds. It is effective on 1st and 2nd instar larvae and takes 3-4 weeks to get down in the soil/thatch layer, so it's a preventative but apparently an effective one. I applied while most of my remaining armyworms were in the pupa state, I think, about a week before moths started flying up while watering. Also I removed thatch before reseeding so both the seed and Grub Ex fell directly on soil, so hopefully my application will be active when the 1st and 2nd instars start feeding.


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## Jagermeister (May 18, 2021)

@Austinite Thank you, very helpful. I too am concerned with resistance so would be great if we could rotate insecticides like we do for fungicides, etc. Also makes sense to treat weekly, assume during peaks of flying insect infestation (moths)?

Would you be able to maybe summarize what you are doing month along with target pests? Do you water in? How do you get both sub surface and surface pests, etc?

Also, I was taking a look at some of the products you mentioned. Looks like Talstar XTRA is actually bifen & zeta-cyp and not an organophosphate. Merit is granular imidacloprid. I have been using liquid bifen XTS and imidacloprid.

For IGR, Tekko states only for indoors and cracks / crevices. What product would you use for Turf?

Since Bifen and Seven SL are two different MoAs, would just rotating between those two be acceptable to mitigate resistance? Also can do same with Acelepryn and rotate between this and imidacloprid?

Also curious why you feel granulars are so much more effective than liquids?

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

@Virginiagal - great info, thanks!

@Jagermeister - Sure thing. Please keep in mind that what I do is _extreme _for basic residential care. I just want to make sure when folks see this post they don't think I am recommending all of this. I just do it because I'm a nut... But I will answer in hopes it will at least help with somewhat of a program and encourage folks to rotate products. My schedule varies slightly based on abundance of insects. And currently, they are quite abundant. While not in my lawn because it's regularly treated; they are all over neighbors homes and if I miss a treatment then I am asking for it.

I put down both pesticides; Insecticide and Fungicide on a regular preventative and curative schedule. I do not water-in anything sprayable. Keep in mind, while I keep and rotate lots of different products, you really only need to rotate 2 groups/classes of each to have a desirable output. I just do it because I'm obsessed with product (fungicides mostly).

Yes, granules are FAR more effective at penetrating into the soil. Sprays are still vital as you want lawn and ornamentals to have the residual on them so that when insects land they are impacted. This is my personal experienced opinion and you will likely get many varying ones.

I use Tekko IGR on everything. Does not harm the lawn, regardless of what label says.

*Insecticide rotation:* Bifen XTS, Permethrin SFR, TalstarP, Defense SC, Alpine WSG, Talstar XTRA. (IGR is Tekko and Quick Knowkdown is ExciteR)

*Fungicide rotation:* Daconil Ultrex, Alliette, Clearys 3336F, Eagle 20EW & Banner Maxx II. (Segway SC, but only if I see root rot related issues)

*1st Sunday - Insect & Fungus - Lawn + Outdoor & indoor of house* 
At sunrise, I spray one of the Insecticide products I listed in *blue*. (Tank Mix IGR & ExciteR) - I spray inside and outside. Literally, everything. Every fence picket, gravel, brick, gutters, foundation, sidewalks, drains, etc etc... nothing gets missed. Many products claim to be effective for up to 8 weeks or more. Big ol' bag of bologna. Whole area spraying should be done once a month tops.

At sunset I spray preventative dose of one o the fungicides listed in *red*.

*2nd Sunday - Insect only - Lawn only*
At sunrise, I put down a granule insecticide such as Talstar XTRA and water in heavy to just before "run off".

*3rd Sunday - Insect & Fungus - Lawn only*
At sunrise, I spray one of the Insecticide products I listed in *blue*. (Tank Mix IGR & ExciteR)

At sunset I spray preventative dose of one o the fungicides listed in *red*.

*4th Sunday - Insect only - Lawn only*
At sunrise, I put down a granule insecticide such as Dylox 6.2 or Merit 0.5g and water in heavy to just before "run off".

Then I start over the following Sunday. I keep my products in a closet in the garage and and move them over so I know which ones I used last.


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## Jagermeister (May 18, 2021)

@Austinite Thanks, this is a robust program! I am doing some of this but not at the same frequencies. I am rotating the fungicides but also doing it more based upon risk (using the Syngenta dollar spot model) and also based upon inspection. I am still very new to all of this.

Regarding the insecticide rotation, looks like you are just rotating AIs within mainly the pyrethoids (outside of imidacloprid and Dinotefuran - Alpine)? Shouldn't we be mixing in another MoA like the carbamates (Sevin SL) or am I missing something? Or tank mixing together...heard Triple Crown was a nice product but expensive. Adds Zeta-Cyp but not a carbamate to the mix.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

Yes, in my previous post I listed Sevin SL. Too much stuff to list off top of my head. Doesnt matter what you use, so long as it varies in groups. I listed a few of what I use to give you an idea.


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## Jagermeister (May 18, 2021)

:thumbup:


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