# Vito's Fall KBG Reno



## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

My front yard has been a source of constant frustration. It was established from sod 25 years ago and has been overseeded annually with whatever was on sale. It never performed well and on July 29th I took great pleasure in dousing the whole thing with roundup.



I'll be replacing with a blend of Award, Prosperity, and Bewitched.

I scalped to 1 1/8, which is as low as my Honda goes, and levelled with about 2 tons of topsoil.

A week later, i used a tracker, more roundup, and AS. I totally overdid the tracker, and I think it messed with my roundup, but I got this sweet photo!



August 18th my starter + tenacity and seed went down. I rolled it in, and topped with peatmoss. Near the downspout and the road, where I was more worried about washout, I used covergrow from my local conserv. I set up 30 six inch pots.

Day 5 after seeding I started seeing germination, which matched up with my earlier pot experiment with this blend.

Today is day 9, and so far so good! I can really only see the edges, and the 1 inch tall dead grass obstructs my view quite a bit but I'm feeling pretty hopeful!



My test pot is 2 weeks ahead of the lawn, and it's rocking away


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Good stuff. Keep us updated. Welcome to TLF.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

Thanks! Good to be here.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

Only took about half an inch of rain to wash out by the downspout. I guess Covergrow has its limits.



My honey locust tree doesn't like having wet leaves one bit. The sprinklers are hitting some of the lower limbs and the leaves are falling off in buckets. Looks like autumn in my yard.





I have no explanation for those stripes under the tree. I went 2 ways with the spreader, im pretty sure I overlapped with the roller, but the evidence says I'm wrong about one of those two statements. Maybe the starter fert? I went two ways with that as well... the mysteries of life.

I'm expecting 2 inches of rain tonight all at once. We'll see how that goes.

Day 10!


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

One week post germination (12 post seed):



Density varies, but I haven't found any large holes yet. The test pot was tillering at two weeks adter planting, so that's what I'm hoping to see pretty soon here.


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

Im starting to notice tillering on my reno at day 18, with bewitched midnight and mazama as my cultivars, yours looks very even. nice job


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

Thanks! If I see tillering on day 18 I'll be very pleased. So far the lawn has followed what I saw in the test pot, but since the pot was filled with moisture control potting soil and my yard is filled with water logged silt, I'm scaling back my expectations.


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

That test pot looks nice @Vito. Nice work.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

Some areas with new topsoil have done very poorly relative to the rest of the reno. Looking around, I'mthinking its a soil surface texture problem. I don't know if this is _the_ problem, but it does seem to be _a_ problem.

The areas look like this:



See that smoothness? Thats a crust. Its there even when soaking wet. Water infiltration in these spots sucks, and I'd hate to be a baby grass plant, trying to find some sunlight, trapped and scared beneath this terrible crust.

I have some moisture control potting soil. Its peat + coconut husk + some soil, perlite, whatever, all coated in a surfactant. Applying a surfactant directly to my babies seems cruel (though I haven't looked into it) but a little dusting of this potting soil on my problem areas seemed like a good idea. It wouldn't take much, the crust is just a thin little guy on the surface.

It fixed my surface texture problem as soon as it got wet. I don't know if it will return, or what consequences come with it but I'm feeling more positive about these types of spots.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Don Corleone, welcome to TLF; The reno looks awesome.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

4 inches of rain last night. Woke up to my backup pots swimming.



Whatever, they're fine. Lots of soil moved around last night though, which is not as fine. My edged beds are filled with soil.





Threw some seed in the beds, boom, future sod plugs.

The only thing damaged was my leveling efforts, which, looking around, seem to have been totally counterproductive.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

More rain. Too much of a good thing:





On the upside, I decided to experiment on two of my pots yesterday. One pot got a urea treatment on day 15, the other got a squirt of baby shampoo. Can't tell what will happen with the urea pot, and its too early to tell if the baby shampoo will harm my seedlings, but the surfactant pot sure does handle water nicely.



...unlike the yard.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It feels like a punch in the stomach.


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## ChadStokes (Jun 21, 2018)

I had the same thing happen to me after seeding about 3000 sq/ft....it felt like a kick in the nads! I'm trying to salvage what is left of the seed in my yard and spread it out to see if anything germinates!


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

Yep. Thankfully, I didn't do very much leveling. The areas where I did nothing are holding nicely, the dead grass is preventing erosion.

The areas I did level are mostly sprigless. The areas downstream of them are also sprigless. By next weekend I should have a better idea of the damage. I'm glad I have 30 six inch pots that are doing well, I'll be using all of them I think.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

ChadStokes said:


> I had the same thing happen to me after seeding about 3000 sq/ft....it felt like a kick in the nads! I'm trying to salvage what is left of the seed in my yard and spread it out to see if anything germinates!


Yeeeah, I saw that. That was one of the most beautifully prepped seedbeds I ever saw too. I was gutted by that, I hope raking it out works.


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## KHARPS (Jun 21, 2018)

@Vito @ChadStokes @g-man yeah it sucks hard. Going through my third washout today. Every time I fix the previous washout we get another one. Seed, peat, and m-binder right down the drain.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

@KHARPS I was kicking myself for not using M Binder. Didn't make much difference to you?


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## KHARPS (Jun 21, 2018)

@Vito it doesn't appear to have worked. I spread a light coating of it this morning and watered it in. About 5 hours later we got an inch of rain in a short period and the spots I put the seed, peat, and binder look bare again.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

I lost a lot. Under the tree, near the road, and down the middle of the yard has mostly washed out.



There's still grass in the washed out areas, but density is maybe 4-20 plants per square foot in the bad areas.

I have about 4 lbs of seed left (reno area is 2.5k) but we've got thunderstorms forecasted for tomorrow, and I'm thinking I'm going to see what kind of soreading magic can happen with 4 plants per square foot.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would wait after next weekend for the hurricane rains to go away, and then drop more seeds. Nothing to loose.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

I suppose you're right. I was saving what I had, but I can always buy more seed next spring if needed.

There's a weird psychology thing going on here, I think I'm trying to avoid the unique feeling that comes with watching seed wash away. I bet the Germans have a word for that feeling.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

I reseeded the spots I thought needed it. I thought this photo pretty much captured the washout. The contrast between uphill of the gutter and downhill is pretty stark.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

21 days photo isn't what I hoped.



I reseeded yesterday.


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## mribbens (Jul 13, 2018)

Vito,

Where are you located at in NW burbs? I saw that you use Conserve FS, I have had great success with their products for my lawn, I use the one in Wauconda.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

I'm in Island Lake, we use the same store!


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

Soo I guess day 21 was the last day of sprout and pout for large swaths. It went nuts over the last 2 days!



I fertilized one test pot on day 15 with a moderate dose of urea. No noticable ill effects, so I'm comfortable with the existing, 23 day old grass getting a urea treatment.

I'd say 75% of the surface is ready for urea. It's that last 25% that I'm uneasy about.

That last 25% was seeded 4 days ago. Intuitively, I hesitate to have my kbg seedlings germinate into an ammonia cloud, but I understand some people delay the dose of starter fert, which should create those same conditions, (and at 2-4x the N rate I'm thinking!)so maybe intuition is failing me here.

I'd just avoid those spots, but the pattern makes it impractical. Plus, the bald spots are from washout, so I think urea flowing into those existing channels is unavoidable. They're gonna get dosed, try as I might.

Anyone know about 0.25ish lbs of urea 4 days after seed down?


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

1 month after seed down, first cut at 1.75 inches:



I really like this image. Its like an inverse shot of my photo from day 14:



The post-washout reseed under the tree is starting to come up. Everywhere i didn't add new topsoil is doing well. Everywhere I did is struggling. I will almost certainly be seeding in the spring.

More angles:


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## mribbens (Jul 13, 2018)

Vito said:


> I'm in Island Lake, we use the same store!


Right on man, I work in Wauconda. I used Conserve seed for my overseed project, stuff is great!


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

Day 40:









I've been cutting 3 times a week at 1.75 and applying light doses of urea weekly. The spreading is real. My pots were transplanted about ten days ago and are doing well.

Over the next week, I'll be moving plugs around.


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## ChadStokes (Jun 21, 2018)

Looking really good! Are you using a rotary or reel mower on the new yard?


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

I've been using my stupidly heavy honda rotary. There's much wincing involved but it doesn't seem to be causing any damage. I keep it away from the reseeded areas.

The sparse/younger areas get scissor cut to about one inch. When a neighbor drives past, I pretend I'm not cutting my lawn with scissors.

It takes about 10-20 minutes, depending on traffic.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Vito said:


> When a neighbor drives past, I pretend I'm not cutting my lawn with scissors.


Oops... Did you post this in the wrong thread?

Maybe you intended it for the thead titled You might be a bit lawn obsessed if..." ?


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

ken-n-nancy said:


> Maybe you intended it for the thead titled You might be a bit lawn obsessed if..." ?


It's temporary and rational!

I didn't include a manual reel mower in the original budget.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

Day 50









Not the envy of the neighborhood, but its coming along. Lots of good square feet for donations and the trouble areas are spots that I'd be comfortable reseeding in spring (not full sun). It's about on par with my expectations for day 50.


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## OnyxsLawn (Mar 15, 2018)

Come a long way in the last 30 days! Looking great for the amount of rain you got. I feel so bad for all you washout guys. Got any close ups of plug transplanting yet?


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## mribbens (Jul 13, 2018)

Looks great! We have had what, like 5 inches of rain in the past 2 weeks or so, it's crazy!!


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

Here's a nice donor area, upstream from the washout and hidden behind my AC unit. I've already pulled a few plugs:



So far the plugs have been tests of my ability to plug. Here's one in situ:



I think the some nearby springs are daughters!

I've been putting off plugging for the moment. See, the areas that I want to plug look like this:



Problem is, they've been looking like that for a while now... I've postponed plugging in lots of places hoping that they'll pop, but they haven't, and the clock is ticking. There is one area that will definitely get lots of plugging. I'll take some progress pics of the spread.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

Went into winter pretty disappointed with the results. We had an insanely cold winter in Chicago and I just pictured my poor little undeveloped sprouts freezing to death. Thankfully that didn't happen.

April 7th:









May 18th:









Dropped bag rate of starter + tenacity April 9th. Milo at bag rate May 5th. Temps have been really low, 40s mostly, so I've kept it at 1.75 inches, (which is about as low as I'm comfortable given the bumpiness) to try to get the soil temps up with some sunlight. I'll move it up soon I think.


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## cfinden (Aug 7, 2018)

Looks great! Nice job on the plugs, I bet it'll all fill in before summer.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

May 28th:







My new seeds have started tillering, so I'm a happy camper.

So far very very little disease pressure. Especially given that we've had rain almost every day and practically no sunshine. I found one plant with a scary fungus:



Firebombed with propiconazole, and haven't seen any issues since. Followed up with azoxystrobin to get the through this terrible weather forecast.

My preemergent wore off about 2 weeks ago. Too early for prodiamine and too chicken for tenacity, so I hand pull until my seedlings mature.


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## ChicagoLawn (Apr 7, 2019)

That's impressive growth of the plugs and still plenty of time to close in more. Nice work


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I agree with hand pulling now. I don't see a lot of weed pressure there.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

ChicagoLawn said:


> That's impressive growth of the plugs and still plenty of time to close in more. Nice work


Thanks! I've been very pleasantly surprised with their performance.

As much as I've been complaining about the lack of nice days, the weather has been good for spreading. I got really lucky there.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

g-man said:


> I agree with hand pulling now. I don't see a lot of weed pressure there.


Whew! I was really conflicted about this decision, it's really reassuring to have it reinforced by someone else. Much appreciated.


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## Vito (Aug 27, 2018)

I feel like I've been focusing on the problematic spots. Creative angles and exploiting shadow can put a positive spin on it:


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