# Bermuda issue



## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Alright so I'm new to these forums, but I wanted to see what some of you all think.. Until last year, the healthiest/best looking part of my backyard was exactly how I wanted it, but then all of a sudden it wouldn't respond to any water or fertilizer, became leggy, yellowish, and very thin.. I'll have to look to see if I have any pictures, because I was pretty pissed about how it looked, so I didn't really care to take many pictures of it. Unfortunately, it appears it may still be an issue. It probably receives the most, or as much sun as any other part of the yard and is extremely behind as far as early greening/growth. It's an area the size of 30 by 10ft or so. I live in Moore, OK and as far as I know, it's probably U3 Bermuda. or what ever came with the house in 2000.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Sounds like either hydrophobic soil or a pest/disease may have been your culprit. Pics may help, as well as knowing a little more background.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Unfortunately this is the best pic I've got from last year of that area. It doesn't look nearly as bad in this picture. I can take a few more when I get home in a couple hours of how it's acting now. Hopefully someone on here can identify an issue.

Also, what details would you like as far as the background?


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

For example, do you have irrigation, did you check the heads for coverage, was it raining frequently or a drought when the condition showed up, was it Summer or Fall when cooler temps and fungus may have been more prevalent, did you apply anything new to the lawn before this occurred or anything familiar that you may have been heavy handed with, did you put down grub poison last year, did you try a soapy water test or see any worms or numerous moths, etc.

I'm not trying to overwhelm you, but as you can see, there is a lot of information that may help to isolate the issue.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Spammage said:


> For example, do you have irrigation, did you check the heads for coverage, was it raining frequently or a drought when the condition showed up, was it Summer or Fall when cooler temps and fungus may have been more prevalent, did you apply anything new to the lawn before this occurred or anything familiar that you may have been heavy handed with, did you put down grub poison last year, did you try a soapy water test or see any worms or numerous moths, etc.
> 
> I'm not trying to overwhelm you, but as you can see, there is a lot of information that may help to isolate the issue.


+1

The more specific you can be will help us narrow down what could have caused this :thumbup:


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Spammage said:


> For example, do you have irrigation, did you check the heads for coverage, was it raining frequently or a drought when the condition showed up, was it Summer or Fall when cooler temps and fungus may have been more prevalent, did you apply anything new to the lawn before this occurred or anything familiar that you may have been heavy handed with, did you put down grub poison last year, did you try a soapy water test or see any worms or numerous moths, etc.
> 
> I'm not trying to overwhelm you, but as you can see, there is a lot of information that may help to isolate the issue.


Yes, irrigation was 100% as far as coverage

I started noticing it was behind as soon as it started greening in the spring, and it never improved. It appears it's going to be like this again this season based off the greenage so far.

Also, through August we had an insane amount of rain which is usually never the case. I had fertilized right before that, and the rest of the yard absolutely exploded, and that section didn't respond one bit.

I did nothing new to the yard as far as fertilizer and/or pre-emergent.

I have not put down any grub poison, nor did I try any other tests. Maybe that's something I could do soon. When is the best time to try to test for those?

I did not notice any different insects above ground that were just secluded to that area of the lawn.

I'll take a couple random pictures of the area, compared with what I'm seeing elsewhere in the lawn.. I've got one spot that is nearly bare of all growth, new and last years..


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

When you take your pic(s), try to push a screwdriver into the ground. That will help to determine if there is anything under the soil preventing the grass from thriving. Also, I noticed the dog, is this problem area where the dog usually relieves itself?


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Spammage said:


> When you take your pic(s), try to push a screwdriver into the ground. That will help to determine if there is anything under the soil preventing the grass from thriving. Also, I noticed the dog, is this problem area where the dog usually relieves itself?


Not typically. He's a male, so he usually goes to one of the bushes. I do have a female, but it's completely random with her and not just in that spot. I'll try the screwdriver and see. It's been, by far, the healthiest part of the lawn for nearly 8-9 years until last season.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I'm thinking it might be grubs or something similar. Try doing the soapy water test........ Take a bucket of water 2-3 gallons and mix in some dish soap 1-2 oz., mix it up and pour it over the area in question. You will want to do a small area like a 1x1 foot as you are trying to get to the soapy water down into the soil and the soap will irritate the worms and they will come to the surface. If you have a whole bunch of them then most likely you have an issue there.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Alright so you can probably tell which 2 are from the area in question


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

For some reason the pic of another section didn't show. But here it is


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Well did the soap and water. No grubs surfaced, just tons of earthworms.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Screwdriver test? It is strange that the area to the right (in the top pic) looks good, but 5-6 feet into the yard is where this seems to start. One other thing that crossed my mind, is this an area where you turn the D125 around multiple times?? It also appears to be a slight mound - do you notice crop circles when you mow?


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Spammage said:


> Screwdriver test? It is strange that the area to the right (in the top pic) looks good, but 5-6 feet into the yard is where this seems to start. One other thing that crossed my mind, is this an area where you turn the D125 around multiple times?? It also appears to be a slight mound - do you notice crop circles when you mow?


 No I've only used a push mower on the lawn but am looking at getting a d125. Also as far as a screwdriver, it sank right in there with no problem at all.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

w0lfe said:


> Well did the soap and water. No grubs surfaced, just tons of earthworms.


I was thinking it may be too early for the grubs as they burrow down deep during the winter, hopefully we figure it out soon


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

When was, or are you planning to do, a soil test?


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Colonel K0rn said:


> When was, or are you planning to do, a soil test?


I have not done a soil test.. Any recommendations on one to purchase from Amazon or anywhere?


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Just to follow up, I called the Oklahoma State extension office and am going to take them in some soil samples to see if they can find anything.. Results take around 2 1/2 weeks this time of year, but I'm hoping that something shows in this.. The master gardner I talked with on the phone also indicated it could be a possible fungal issue, so she's going to get back with me in a bit.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

So I know I keep bumping my own thread, but I went out and check that area today and I've got some new sprouts and the coloring is off on those. Does this grass look abnormal to you too?


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## raldridge2315 (Jul 1, 2017)

Patience grasshopper. That color is from cold weather.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

raldridge2315 said:


> Patience grasshopper. That color is from cold weather.


I've noticed it's only in the bad area. The rest of the lawn still looks normal


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm a cool season guy but this peak my interest. I like a good mistery. Could you post a picture of your yard? I think one that shows the whole yard and where is the trouble area relative to the rest. Nothing too zoomed in. It is just to get a perspective of the size of the problem area.

One thing to keep in mind, if it struggled last year, dont expect it to match the rest of the lawn. I think the soil will be a good first step.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

g-man said:


> I'm a cool season guy but this peak my interest. I like a good mistery. Could you post a picture of your yard? I think one that shows the whole yard and where is the trouble area relative to the rest. Nothing too zoomed in. It is just to get a perspective of the size of the problem area.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind, if it struggled last year, dont expect it to match the rest of the lawn. I think the soil will be a good first step.








Here's 3 of the lawn on the ground.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

That would be the current affected area. Obviously this satellite picture is from a few years ago


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The 3 above is how it looks today?


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

w0lfe said:


> Colonel K0rn said:
> 
> 
> > When was, or are you planning to do, a soil test?
> ...


Sorry I didn't reply to you sooner, there's nothing wrong with the test from the extension agency, but there are better tests available, and some very knowledgeable members of the forum that would be happy to expound on any soil test results you get back.

Ridgerunner has written a very in-depth thread about soil testing, and you can go very far down the rabbit hole when it comes to what the testing methodology and results indicate. There's a great read for you if you want to get technical on it.

Tellycoleman has a thread going on about Waypoint's test results, and I think Ware got one done by them as well. Check that thread out for some good information. I plan on using them for my next soil test.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

g-man said:


> The 3 above is how it looks today?


No those were some pics from early last year I believe


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Colonel K0rn said:


> w0lfe said:
> 
> 
> > Colonel K0rn said:
> ...


I appreciate it, I'll check it out. Yeah I really didn't feel like waiting 2 1/2 weeks at the extension office for my results to come back.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

w0lfe said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > The 3 above is how it looks today?
> ...


Could you post images of how it looks now?


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

g-man said:


> w0lfe said:
> 
> 
> > g-man said:
> ...


Yeah as soon as I get home, I'll take some shots


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Alright I really didn't know what kind of angles or anything to take but here are some pictures of the area and it's probably harder to tell on the pictures, but in person you can clearly see a difference


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

All I could see is dormant Bermuda. In the background there is a shadow of green. I think it is too early to tell what's going on.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

g-man said:


> All I could see is dormant Bermuda. In the background there is a shadow of green. I think it is too early to tell what's going on.


Ditto.

@w0lfe do any of your neighbors have full on green Bermuda yards right now? I assume the answer is no.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > All I could see is dormant Bermuda. In the background there is a shadow of green. I think it is too early to tell what's going on.
> ...


 Nope they don't. You can't tell in the pictures as much, but it's significantly behind the rest of the yard. There are maybe 1 or or 2 green leaves per 3 or 4 square feet , and the rest has hundreds. Until last season, this area has always been the first to green and been by far the healthiest section of the yard. We'll see if it stays this way over the next few weeks, which I'm sure it will. That area gets sun from morning until late afternoon and areas that get half that much sun, have considerably more greenage. You can see in that closeup I posted, there are patches of bare dirt


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

So I just wanted to give an update to this. The area I've been concerned with has still not really made any progress whatsoever


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Anyone have anymore ideas to try?


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Maybe the ph is really high in that area, but I'd just be patient. With Bermuda, NWT is usually your best answer: Nitrogen, Water, and Time. Once the heat of summer kicks in, with plenty of water and N, let us know what happens.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

PH in that area is 7.4. I do have soil test results for that area, potassium was high and phosphorus a little low. I'm actually hitting it again with nitrogen in 2 days with a good water.. It literally hasn't changed any since early March.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

You could get a ProPlugger and put some plugs in that area to help speed recovery and see if they take or not. If they die with proper care than you know something else is wrong.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> You could get a ProPlugger and put some plugs in that area to help speed recovery and see if they take or not. If they die with proper care than you know something else is wrong.


+1.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> You could get a ProPlugger and put some plugs in that area to help speed recovery and see if they take or not. If they die with proper care than you know something else is wrong.


I'll give that a try guys. Thank you. So I haven't had much luck finding any elemental phosphorus, but I found a place that has 0-46-0 phosphate. Would that suffice? If so, how much should I put down? My P Index was 51 (26ppm) and they recommended 1 pound of actual phosphorus per 1k feet annually until my index gets to 65


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

0-46-0 should work fine. Just apply 2lbs/K for the season. Phosphorus doesn't move as much in the soil as Nitrogen and Potassium so once you get your numbers up you should be good for awhile. You could also just apply a starter fertilizer to get your P and you also get some N and K.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> 0-46-0 should work fine. Just apply 2lbs/K for the season. Phosphorus doesn't move as much in the soil as Nitrogen and Potassium so once you get your numbers up you should be good for awhile. You could also just apply a starter fertilizer to get your P and you also get some N and K.


My potassium is off the charts, so I need to avoid any of that. So could I just apply the 2lbs per 1k in one application? Also, is that 2 lbs of 46-0-0 or 2lbs of actual phosphate?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

2 lbs of 0-46-0 and yes you can do it all at once.

2 lbs of 0-46-0= .92 lbs of Phosphorus


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> 2 lbs of 0-46-0 and yes you can do it all at once.
> 
> 2 lbs of 0-46-0= .92 lbs of Phosphorus


Much appreciated sir


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