# Perennial Rye Grass



## The_iHenry

Anyone else taking the plunge this coming winter?

What are you doing in preparation?

When will you be overseeding?

What will your hoc be?


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## Ware

I'm still undecided. My motivation will probably increase when the heat lets up a little.


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## The_iHenry

@Ware I really hope you do it. I was planning on taking the winter off but your 17-18 overseeding inspired me to give it a go.


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## Wfrobinette

Im thinking of it too.

I actually have some higher end annual rye that supposed to be more like prg.

https://www.barusa.com/professional-turf/products/sos-2.htm


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## Steverino

I will be giving it a go again this year. I just received a bag of Champion GC. The cultivars are different this year:

I started last year Sept 23 or so in sections:


I was way too aggressive with the verticutter. My Bermuda took a hit as I took out too much.... here is the rye October 3rd:


Amazingly fast establishment. It took off and then from late December to early February it just sat there nice and green with very little growth. Then a nice spring regrow and I loved it... Here is late March



I couldn't bring myself to nuke it and my Bermuda had a slow comeback....here is late may

Then June came.... it was hanging good until a long period of no rain. Some areas of the rye was toasted... the Bermuda need to start coming on... here is June 2nd.... bad....

The Bermuda rebounded and here is July 12....



I don't have an August.. but I'm back happy with the Bermuda in that area and I have a good mix in the north side of the house near trees.... Soon to start it all over... I got the Champion GC now cause last year it sold out and was back ordered for a couple of weeks...
I will not get as aggressive with the scalp and verticutter this year though...


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## The_iHenry

That looks good @Steverino did you do anything for weeds prior to the PRG?


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## Steverino

Hey, yes, I had been using Celcius and Image for sedge prior to the rye... I had not used anything on the rye one I planted it as far as weed killers go. I have been using pgr (growth regulator)and Feature iron along with fertilizer....no type of re-emergant either before or after the rye....


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## lucas287

Wfrobinette said:


> Im thinking of it too.
> 
> I actually have some higher end annual rye that supposed to be more like prg.
> 
> https://www.barusa.com/professional-turf/products/sos-2.htm


Thanks for sending me down a rabbit hole :lol: I just spent an hour researching the high-end annual ryegrasses and I'm sold! They claim slower growth rate, more prostrate, and they persist less in the spring. The problem is where the heck do you buy the stuff?? Pickseed TXR, Axcella 2, Panterra V...those are all viable options in premium annual rye. Once again - where the heck do you buy it?


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## Wfrobinette

lucas287 said:


> Wfrobinette said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im thinking of it too.
> 
> I actually have some higher end annual rye that supposed to be more like prg.
> 
> https://www.barusa.com/professional-turf/products/sos-2.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for sending me down a rabbit hole :lol: I just spent an hour researching the high-end annual ryegrasses and I'm sold! They claim slower growth rate, more prostrate, and they persist less in the spring. The problem is where the heck do you buy the stuff?? Pickseed TXR, Axcella 2, Panterra V...those are all viable options in premium annual rye. Once again - where the heck do you buy it?
Click to expand...

I got a bag from Johnston seed. Advance turf has the max 220 as well. But haven't tried buying from them yet.

https://www.johnstonseed.com/product/sos-maxx/

https://www.advancedturf.com/product-category/seed/


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## cglarsen

@Steverino Awesome pics and information - thank you. What kind of setting do you plan to use on the verticutter this year? Double pass? How much does it hurt the Bermuda that late in the year?

Also you mentioned you have a mix of bermuda and ryegrass on the north side near trees. Do you have a photo of that? I have a shadier area that I'm going to seed and I'm not sure if the bermuda will crawl into it. I didn't think the rye would survive the summer heat but maybe it will if yours did?


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## Steverino

I probably will make it show some dirt with a double pass (I have delta blades on it) but last year I got way too aggressive, I think. I'll see this year if I leave more Bermuda in place if the rye still looks good... 
Here is a pic on the north side at the end of July a few weeks ago...


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## Wfrobinette

Wfrobinette said:


> lucas287 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wfrobinette said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im thinking of it too.
> 
> I actually have some higher end annual rye that supposed to be more like prg.
> 
> https://www.barusa.com/professional-turf/products/sos-2.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for sending me down a rabbit hole :lol: I just spent an hour researching the high-end annual ryegrasses and I'm sold! They claim slower growth rate, more prostrate, and they persist less in the spring. The problem is where the heck do you buy the stuff?? Pickseed TXR, Axcella 2, Panterra V...those are all viable options in premium annual rye. Once again - where the heck do you buy it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I got a bag from Johnston seed. Advance turf has the max 220 as well. But haven't tried buying from them yet.
> 
> https://www.johnstonseed.com/product/sos-maxx/
> 
> https://www.advancedturf.com/product-category/seed/
Click to expand...

I also found this.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Barenbrug-25-lb-Winter-Wonderlawn-Grass-Seed-23065/203226781?cm_mmc=Shopping%7CG%7CBase%7CD28O%7C28-6_SEED%7CNA%7CPLA%7CFixed%7C71700000041058688%7C58700005154948172%7C92700046095636859&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI16yQstyU5AIVD__jBx0tAwnwEAQYASABEgIk0PD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## Thisguy

I'm going to give it a go. Just ordered some Champion GQ. I already have some MSM for the spring nuke. Hopefully all goes well


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## justin144

Thisguy said:


> I'm going to give it a go. Just ordered some Champion GQ. I already have some MSM for the spring nuke. Hopefully all goes well


I will be nuking it with Envoke (same active ingredient as Monument), after reading this article:
https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/imported/course-care/050322.pdf

Though I live in Texas and not sure I will even need to nuke it, honestly. Better safe than sorry.


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## The_iHenry

@Steverino @Wfrobinette @Thisguy @justin144 what are you guys gonna do with your bermuda before applying the PRG?


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## justin144

The_iHenry said:


> @Steverino @Wfrobinette @Thisguy @justin144 what are you guys gonna do with your bermuda before applying the PRG?


1. Apply T-Nex plant growth regulator. 
2. Scalp
3. Was initially gonna put down a little bit of sand to help level some areas, but I'm not sure the seed will germinate well in the sand? Think I will just do a small verticut instead. 
4. Rake it in


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## The_iHenry

@justin144 what's your hoc? What about weed control?


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## justin144

The_iHenry said:


> @justin144 what's your hoc? What about weed control?


After scalping the Bermuda, I'll probably try to cut the PRG around .5" or possibly a little higher depending on how it looks. I want it low. For weeds, any current weeds I have now should die as temps drop, and the winter weeds I will just spot spray (not sure with what yet) as they come up.


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## lucas287

Anyone spray tnex on prg? My climate means prg grows very quickly! Sub 1" means I'd be cutting every day.


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## lucas287

Thanks @Wfrobinette for the links! I think I'll just use the Ewings Eagle prg. Good price and easy to just pick up!


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## The_iHenry

justin144 said:


> The_iHenry said:
> 
> 
> 
> @justin144 what's your hoc? What about weed control?
> 
> 
> 
> After scalping the Bermuda, I'll probably try to cut the PRG around .5" or possibly a little higher depending on how it looks. I want it low. For weeds, any current weeds I have now should die as temps drop, and the winter weeds I will just spot spray (not sure with what yet) as they come up.
Click to expand...

I was mowing at .25 all season. I raised my HOC to .375 today so I can scalp and verticut before the PRG. I plan on doing one more celsius app as soon as it gets here.


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## justin144

The_iHenry said:


> I was mowing at .25 all season. I raised my HOC to .375 today so I can scalp and verticut before the PRG. I plan on doing one more celsius app as soon as it gets here.


Yeah, the Celcius label does mention it can be used on Bermuda before overseeding with Rye, but I don't know why that would be needed, because warm season weeds should die on their own. I must be missing something..


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## Steverino

I will scalp, run the verticutter and apply Primo Maxx... not anything else I can think of at the moment. Last year it was tough keeping the water on it because I only have hoses and no irrigation. I did a section at a time... I'll be doing that again....
I used primo maxx growth regulator on the PRG (perennial rye grass) last year along with FEature iron. It was great and while I can't tell you the regulation I was getting, I liked it. 
Hardest part will be pulling the trigger on nuking it next spring because I really like the look of the rye stripes. I know better where to do that and where to leave it year round now, though.
All this depends on me getting the yard cleaned up from a fence install. I've got debris and rocks to clean up... I'm afraid to even cut! All this with kids, work and hunting season is coming on, too!


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## Wfrobinette

lucas287 said:


> Thanks @Wfrobinette for the links! I think I'll just use the Ewings Eagle prg. Good price and easy to just pick up!


I here ya. This was expensive but should have the need for any chems to knock it out.


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## Slim 1938

I'm really wanting to overseed my backyard bermuda with perrenial rye and I have a question. Would it be ok to mow perrenial rye with a rotary riding mower or would it be to heavy? I dont own a reel at the moment.


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## Steverino

I think that is more typical up north than a reel mow. I should be fine as long as you wait for the first cut. It was painful my first cut last year and I believe I used my rotary (walk behind). I do remember when I used a reel it was pulling some out at the beginning of establishment. I think the vacume of the rotary was better at the long leggy first cut....


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## William

Probably a dumb question. I presume you seed every year?


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## Slim 1938

Steverino said:


> I think that is more typical up north than a reel mow. I should be fine as long as you wait for the first cut. It was painful my first cut last year and I believe I used my rotary (walk behind). I do remember when I used a reel it was pulling some out at the beginning of establishment. I think the vacume of the rotary was better at the long leggy first cut....


That makes sense. Thanks!


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## Steverino

William said:


> Probably a dumb question. I presume you seed every year?


This year will only be my second year, but yes. The general idea is to seed it in the fall, have green rye grass through the cold months, kill it off in the spring to let the bermuda come back for the hot months. The better the rye cultivars, the better the look.


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## lucas287

Just throwing this out there...research bluemuda. There's a few threads on this forum as well as various publications, opinions, etc out there. Even search #bluemuda on Instagram.

Turf Blue HGT by Barenbrug is used primarily for blending into bermuda because it's a lighter green and has the heat/drought tolerance to hang in throughoutsummer.

According to various turf managers they stopped spraying out their rye completely and just let them commingle then whenever the bluemuda concept hit the market they overseed with kbg instead of prg and never looked back.

I've now bought 10# of turf blue hgt and will be trying this out this fall! Only in my backyard though. It has the best chance of surviving with all the shade i have.


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## MWH

@lucas287 Where did you find a 10# bag at? I can only find 50# online. Thanks!


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## lucas287

MWH said:


> @lucas287 Where did you find a 10# bag at? I can only find 50# online. Thanks!


I bought two 5 pounders! https://sodsolutions.com/product/hgt-turf-blue-grass-seed-yellow-jacket/


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## Bmossin

@MWH @lucas287 please document this well with lots of pictures...Do you think the Turf Blue HGT will die out in the Texas summer, or will you spray it out in the spring when the bermuda wakes up, or are you planning on having a mix year round?


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## lucas287

@Bmossin I started a lawn journal to document everything! Don't want to thread jack worse than I already have


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## latitude36

Tip of the cap to all the people doing this over winter. I love my lawn and think dark rye grass is a good as it gets however; after mowing 3-5 times per week all summer--Equipment and my self need an off season. I m thinking of doing the spray paint that looks like Rye @Mid October.


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## Steverino

latitude36 said:


> Tip of the cap to all the people doing this over winter. I love my lawn and think dark rye grass is a good as it gets however; after mowing 3-5 times per week all summer--Equipment and my self need an off season. I m thinking of doing the spray paint that looks like Rye @Mid October.


Winter rye care really involves very little maintenance after it has been established and the cold sets in for my area. It basically stopped growing from January through March so I did not do much. I had no pre-emergant down and had a few weeds pop up but not too much. I am thinking to use the pre-emergant after it is established this year so it would not even have much of the winter weeds if I do. I got the break during those months last year, but it was some work and stress of wondering if if would establish and work out when I first overseeded.


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## cglarsen

Steverino said:


> latitude36 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tip of the cap to all the people doing this over winter. I love my lawn and think dark rye grass is a good as it gets however; after mowing 3-5 times per week all summer--Equipment and my self need an off season. I m thinking of doing the spray paint that looks like Rye @Mid October.
> 
> 
> 
> Winter rye care really involves very little maintenance after it has been established and the cold sets in for my area. It basically stopped growing from January through March so I did not do much. I had no pre-emergant down and had a few weeds pop up but not too much. I am thinking to use the pre-emergant after it is established this year so it would not even have much of the winter weeds if I do. I got the break during those months last year, but it was some work and stress of wondering if if would establish and work out when I first overseeded.
Click to expand...

Yes I too was thinking pre-em after seeding PRG to control winter weeds. Just not sure that it will be in time to prevent Poa annual since it wants to germinate around the same time that ryegrass likes too.


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## The_iHenry

I just put down some Celsius on Sunday. Hopefully it doesn't effect the PRG in October &#128533;


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## justin144

Why would it? Celcius is not a pre emergent.


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## The_iHenry

justin144 said:


> Why would it? Celcius is not a pre emergent.


The label says not to use it on PRG.


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## justin144

The_iHenry said:


> justin144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would it? Celcius is not a pre emergent.
> 
> 
> 
> The label says not to use it on PRG.
Click to expand...

You will be fine. From the label: "Bermudagrass may be treated with broadcast applications of Celsius WG Herbicide prior to overseeding. Allow 14 days or more between broadcast application of Celsius WG Herbicide and overseeding with ryegrass. Intervals less than 14 days may cause undesirable reductions in the stand of ryegrass. When making spot applications, allow 28 days before overseeding ryegrass."


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## WDE46

My back yard is still mostly weeds. Could I put down a ton of PRG or ARG just to try to crowd things out over the winter? Should I even bother? I was hoping maybe I can have a decent back lawn until I nuke it in April/May.


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## justin144

WDE46 said:


> My back yard is still mostly weeds. Could I put down a ton of PRG or ARG just to try to crowd things out over the winter? Should I even bother? I was hoping maybe I can have a decent back lawn until I nuke it in April/May.


I mean, yah. They are likely warm season weeds that will die off once the temps cool down, but I think you should be able to crowd out some cool season weeds with the PRG/ARG


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## WDE46

Do you think the seeds will have a hard time reaching the ground to germinate? I can go real heavy. This shit is cheap. I guess cutting as low as my mower can go may help.


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## The_iHenry

justin144 said:


> The_iHenry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> justin144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would it? Celcius is not a pre emergent.
> 
> 
> 
> The label says not to use it on PRG.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You will be fine. From the label: "Bermudagrass may be treated with broadcast applications of Celsius WG Herbicide prior to overseeding. Allow 14 days or more between broadcast application of Celsius WG Herbicide and overseeding with ryegrass. Intervals less than 14 days may cause undesirable reductions in the stand of ryegrass. When making spot applications, allow 28 days before overseeding ryegrass."
Click to expand...

You're right I kept reading. Thanks


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## justin144

WDE46 said:


> Do you think the seeds will have a hard time reaching the ground to germinate? I can go real heavy. This s--- is cheap. I guess cutting as low as my mower can go may help.


Yes, they will. I would mow as low as possible and then dethatch or do a light top dressing or something


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## WDE46

Dang thought I could put off buying the sunjoe until spring. I guess I can hand dethatch again though. Shouldn't be as bad as last spring since it was probably the first time the lawn was dethatched in 20 years.


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## justin144

WDE46 said:


> Dang thought I could put off buying the sunjoe until spring. I guess I can hand dethatch again though. Shouldn't be as bad as last spring since it was probably the first time the lawn was dethatched in 20 years.


Or just rent a power rake. Beats manual dethatching by a landslide


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## The_iHenry

The time is soon approaching...


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## Nick2879

Hi everyone. Those of you who ordered the Champion GQ from Hancock Seed, did you receive it yet? I ordered mine on Aug 31 but yet to ship. Emailed them last week and they told me within a week or two. Just getting antsy. I'm in the Raleigh area and with our temps I know I still have a little time. I just like to be prepared. Thanks


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## justin144

Mine shipped next day. I ordered in July.


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## The_iHenry

Nick2879 said:


> Hi everyone. Those of you who ordered the Champion GQ from Hancock Seed, did you receive it yet? I ordered mine on Aug 31 but yet to ship. Emailed them last week and they told me within a week or two. Just getting antsy. I'm in the Raleigh area and with our temps I know I still have a little time. I just like to be prepared. Thanks


Thanks for the info, I planned on ordering from them but didn't realize there was a wait time. I better order sooner than later.


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## Bmossin

I ordered from Seedworld USA arrived yesterday. Ordered last Thursday.


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## The_iHenry

@Nick2879 have you received your CGQ yet? I ordered from them too and haven't received my shipment confirmation yet...

@Steverino, @Thisguy, and @justin144 have you guys over-seeded yet?

@Ware, @WDE46, @Slim 1938, @Wfrobinette will you guys be joining us?


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## justin144

I have not put seed down yet. Weather is still in the 90s in Dallas. I'm hoping it will be cool enough to get started in about 2-3 weeks.


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## WDE46

The_iHenry said:


> @Nick2879 have you received your CGQ yet? I ordered from them too and haven't received my shipment confirmation yet...
> 
> @Steverino, @Thisguy, and @justin144 have you guys over-seeded yet?
> 
> @Ware, @WDE46, @Slim 1938, @Wfrobinette will you guys be joining us?


I only put annual ryegrass in my backyard which is still mostly weeds. It was somewhat of an experiment. It looks pretty nice and survived the recent heat over the past few weeks easily. The area I dethatched by hand did much better than the rest of the back yard. That was the experiment really haha


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## The_iHenry

@justin144 We still have high's in the 90's but I plan on over-seeding this weekend.

@WDE46 I was planning on skipping the dethatching part but now that you say that... well looks like I'll be dethatching.


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## Slim 1938

The_iHenry said:


> @Nick2879 have you received your CGQ yet? I ordered from them too and haven't received my shipment confirmation yet...
> 
> @Steverino, @Thisguy, and @justin144 have you guys over-seeded yet?
> 
> @Ware, @WDE46, @Slim 1938, @Wfrobinette will you guys be joining us?


I already put down prodiamine. I really wanted to but timing isnt working out for me. Next year for sure.


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## justin144

@The_iHenry I would be worried about the grass sprouting and then dying from the heat. Not sure if that's a real possibility or not, honestly.


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## stogie1020

I too am planning on over-seeding my Bermuda with PRG in the Phoenix area. I probably have a few weeks left to go before I need to start. I usually wait until the golf courses nearby start and then I go for it. Our daytime temps are still in the 90s with nights in the upper 60s to mid 70s.

I only have 900 sqft, so it's not too much effort, but I want to try to keep the seed cost to under $50 (second baby just arrived...).

What is the best quality seed I could use to keep the seed cost capped at $50? Would 10# of ChampionGQ really be enough? Barenbrug?

Any other good seed options to consider? I have done the Scotts/Pennington PRG stuff before and it was 'OK', but I am hoping to improve the quality of the lawn this year.


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## Wfrobinette

The_iHenry said:


> @Nick2879 have you received your CGQ yet? I ordered from them too and haven't received my shipment confirmation yet...
> 
> @Steverino, @Thisguy, and @justin144 have you guys over-seeded yet?
> 
> @Ware, @WDE46, @Slim 1938, @Wfrobinette will you guys be joining us?


I will joining in with my barenbrug sos maxx annual mix. Its still too hot. I plan to prep next weekend. I will be posting in my journal as well.


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## Nick2879

I canceled my Champion gq order from Hancock. They kept telling me "soon". So I found it on seedworld. Used a code and saved 4 bucks vs Hancock. But they sent me clubhouse and not champion gq. So I'll be using that once the weather breaks here in the Raleigh area this weekend or next week.


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## cnet24

Seed will go down for me this weekend here in GA. Finally looking like cooler temps next week. I will just scalp and spray PGR prior to seed going down.

For those looking for a good seed, I will be using the Birdie mix from Ewing for the second season. Great mix with great results.


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## probasestealer

PRG day 3 in a bare area. Mid 90s the next 2 days...


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## Steverino

The_iHenry said:


> @Nick2879 have you received your CGQ yet? I ordered from them too and haven't received my shipment confirmation yet...
> 
> @Steverino, @Thisguy, and @justin144 have you guys over-seeded yet?
> 
> @Ware, @WDE46, @Slim 1938, @Wfrobinette will you guys be joining us?


I have not overseeded yet... I am waiting for fall, Ha! (For those from elsewhere, it is fall here in central NC but it has been so hot and humid, but no rain...)


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## stepper

Mine will be going down this weekend in DFW. Perfect temperatures next week!


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## The_iHenry

Nick2879 said:


> I canceled my Champion gq order from Hancock. They kept telling me "soon". So I found it on seedworld. Used a code and saved 4 bucks vs Hancock. But they sent me clubhouse and not champion gq. So I'll be using that once the weather breaks here in the Raleigh area this weekend or next week.


That sucks I just ordered mine from Hancock on Monday and it has yet to ship.


probasestealer said:


> PRG day 3 in a bare area. Mid 90s the next 2 days...


LOL flashlight checks are *REEL*. The next 2 days are make or break... should be ok though.


justin144 said:


> @The_iHenry I would be worried about the grass sprouting and then dying from the heat. Not sure if that's a real possibility or not, honestly.


We have a high of 92° on Tuesday after that low 80's and dropping so I'll be overseeding on Wednesday.


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## WDE46

justin144 said:


> @The_iHenry I would be worried about the grass sprouting and then dying from the heat. Not sure if that's a real possibility or not, honestly.


Mine survived the past two weeks without water in North Alabama. It was 99 yesterday.


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## probasestealer

WDE46 said:


> justin144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @The_iHenry I would be worried about the grass sprouting and then dying from the heat. Not sure if that's a real possibility or not, honestly.
> 
> 
> 
> Mine survived the past two weeks without water in North Alabama. It was 99 yesterday.
Click to expand...

Awesome. I don't even need the flashlight now. One more hot day


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## The_iHenry

My seed shipped today scheduled to arrive Wednesday.

@WDE46 you made it through the heat.


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## WDE46

The_iHenry said:


> My seed shipped today scheduled to arrive Wednesday.
> 
> @WDE46 you made it through the heat.


Yeah the end of summer is officially upon us this weekend.


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## Trippel24

https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/fresno/93702/daily-weather-forecast/327144

Are these temperatures to hot still to throw rye down?


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## WDE46

No it'll be fine. Like I said, mine is fine and it's been record hot here in N Alabama for like 2-3 weeks.


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## Trippel24

Here was my results from last year.


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## stogie1020

I ordered 10# of Champion GQ from Hancock and it shipped out within 48 hours.

If temps are still really warm (I am in Phoenix), what prevents the bermuda from rebounding from the scalp along with the PRG germination? If it does, does that matter?

I guess I don't really have a good sense of how to tell if (or force) the bermuda to go dormant.


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## justin144

stogie1020 said:


> If temps are still really warm (I am in Phoenix), what prevents the bermuda from rebounding from the scalp along with the PRG germination? If it does, does that matter?
> 
> I guess I don't really have a good sense of how to tell if (or force) the bermuda to go dormant.


Well if you have any plant growth regulator, you should spray your Bermuda with that a few days before overseeding. That should help prevent the Bermuda from growing. As long is it stays under your rye HOC, it should be good.

If you don't have plant growth regulator for the Bermuda, you should probably wait till the temps cool down more so the Bermuda stops growing. You don't want the Bermuda competing with the rye. Optimal soil temps for planting rye are 50-65F. Use this link to view soil temps on your area:

http://www.greencastonline.com/tools/soil-temperature

If your Bermuda does end up growing a bit during rye germination, you can always do another scalp once the rye is filled in and then raise your HOC again.


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## stogie1020

Thanks Justin144, my seed won't arrive till mid next week, and I don't have PGR, so I may just wait a few weeks. I want the Bermuda to store up what it needs prior to going dormant so it greens up nicely in the spring.

The map you provided says my soil temps are in the mid 80s...


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## justin144

stogie1020 said:


> The map you provided says my soil temps are in the mid 80s...


Yeah, mine shows 85. It will be dropping soon.. Usually when the daytime air temps are 60-75


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## lucas287

Just for the record, I seeded KBG on Sept. 8th and had great germination. Around day 7 is when it started. Almost a month later it's really starting to take off. If KBG can germinate in our hot September weather - PRG will too.

I had different motives though. I am trying out a "Bluemuda" lawn this year and it was highly recommended by a pro in the sports turf arena to let the bermuda recover before dormancy - that's why i seeded so early.


----------



## stogie1020

justin144 said:


> stogie1020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The map you provided says my soil temps are in the mid 80s...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, mine shows 85. It will be dropping soon.. *Usually when the daytime air temps are 60-75*
Click to expand...

lol, that may be January for me!


----------



## WDE46

So BTW if you are cutting with a rotary, annual ryegrass is REALLY wet. It doesn't cut well. It sticks to the inside of the mower and catches on anything it can. I'd recommend taking at least two passes to minimize it. The deck will 100% need a wash after you cut your ANG. It's nice to have a temporary green lawn in the back yard for the winter though. I didn't do PRG just because it might be slightly more difficult to get rid of to seed zoysia in the spring.


----------



## justin144

Yeah I plan to kill my rye in the spring when I start seeing my neighbors lawns green up


----------



## Redtwin

justin144 said:


> Yeah I plan to kill my rye in the spring when I start seeing my neighbors lawns green up


That wouldn't work for me... my neighbor's lawn is green all winter with Poa A. :lol:


----------



## PokeGrande

Seed down tomorrow for me.


----------



## Wfrobinette

Seed went down today. I will be keeping track in my warm season journal.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8574


----------



## Bsblcoach1989

Seed is up out here. About 2.5 weeks growth.


----------



## Redtwin

Very nice!


----------



## PokeGrande

Threw 50 lbs down yesterday.


----------



## The_iHenry

Wfrobinette said:


> Seed went down today. I will be keeping track in my warm season journal.
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8574


Just went through your journal, your lawn is looking good keep us updated with the ARG. I did a light verticut yesterday and scalped in preparation for the PRG (scheduled to arrive on 10/9/19).



Bsblcoach1989 said:


> Seed is up out here. About 2.5 weeks growth.


Bruh... that looks awesome! Looks like the Bakersfield heat isn't affecting it. When did you overseed and with what seed? What steps did you take?


----------



## jw38

lucas287 said:


> Just for the record, I seeded KBG on Sept. 8th and had great germination. Around day 7 is when it started. Almost a month later it's really starting to take off. If KBG can germinate in our hot September weather - PRG will too.
> 
> I had different motives though. I am trying out a "Bluemuda" lawn this year and it was highly recommended by a pro in the sports turf arena to let the bermuda recover before dormancy - that's why i seeded so early.


That's encouraging. I thought it was still to hot to overseed with PRG, but since you're so close to me, it appears that I can overseed as soon as my seed arrives!


----------



## lucas287

jw38 said:


> lucas287 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just for the record, I seeded KBG on Sept. 8th and had great germination. Around day 7 is when it started. Almost a month later it's really starting to take off. If KBG can germinate in our hot September weather - PRG will too.
> 
> I had different motives though. I am trying out a "Bluemuda" lawn this year and it was highly recommended by a pro in the sports turf arena to let the bermuda recover before dormancy - that's why i seeded so early.
> 
> 
> 
> That's encouraging. I thought it was still to hot to overseed with PRG, but since you're so close to me, it appears that I can overseed as soon as my seed arrives!
Click to expand...

Howdy neighbor! yep - you'll be alright. especially with it cooling off now.


----------



## Bsblcoach1989

The_iHenry said:


> Wfrobinette said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seed went down today. I will be keeping track in my warm season journal.
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8574
> 
> 
> 
> Just went through your journal, your lawn is looking good keep us updated with the ARG. I did a light verticut yesterday and scalped in preparation for the PRG (scheduled to arrive on 10/9/19).
> 
> 
> 
> Bsblcoach1989 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seed is up out here. About 2.5 weeks growth.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bruh... that looks awesome! Looks like the Bakersfield heat isn't affecting it. When did you overseed and with what seed? What steps did you take?
Click to expand...

Thanks! I dethatched about a month ago and then did a full sand level and then I dropped Champion GQ seed on 9/20 and threw down some 15-15-15 feet with it because I couldn't find milorganite. I watered three times a day for 6 minutes for germination and have backed it off to twice a day for 4 minutes now. I find that the seed germinates quickly when it's warmer and prefer to put it down in the middle of September so I can get my first mow on it somewhere near the start of October when it starts to cool at night. After these next two days it's going to be fantastic weather for the PRG.


----------



## The_iHenry

Bsblcoach1989 said:


> The_iHenry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wfrobinette said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seed went down today. I will be keeping track in my warm season journal.
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8574
> 
> 
> 
> Just went through your journal, your lawn is looking good keep us updated with the ARG. I did a light verticut yesterday and scalped in preparation for the PRG (scheduled to arrive on 10/9/19).
> 
> 
> 
> Bsblcoach1989 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seed is up out here. About 2.5 weeks growth.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bruh... that looks awesome! Looks like the Bakersfield heat isn't affecting it. When did you overseed and with what seed? What steps did you take?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks! I dethatched about a month ago and then did a full sand level and then I dropped Champion GQ seed on 9/20 and threw down some 15-15-15 feet with it because I couldn't find milorganite. I watered three times a day for 6 minutes for germination and have backed it off to twice a day for 4 minutes now. I find that the seed germinates quickly when it's warmer and prefer to put it down in the middle of September so I can get my first mow on it somewhere near the start of October when it starts to cool at night. After these next two days it's going to be fantastic weather for the PRG.
Click to expand...

Hell yeah dude I'm excited for my Champion GQ to get here. I'm not sure what to fertilize it with though. You mentioned you didn't have any milo, if you did would you have gone with that?


----------



## justin144

The_iHenry said:


> I'm not sure what to fertilize it with though. You mentioned you didn't have any milo, if you did would you have gone with that?


I will be using this Scott's fertilizer with Tenacity to prevent weeds from popping up. 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B04KC4O/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_mY4MDbKCVD0ZC


----------



## Bsblcoach1989

The_iHenry said:


> Bsblcoach1989 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The_iHenry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just went through your journal, your lawn is looking good keep us updated with the ARG. I did a light verticut yesterday and scalped in preparation for the PRG (scheduled to arrive on 10/9/19).
> 
> Bruh... that looks awesome! Looks like the Bakersfield heat isn't affecting it. When did you overseed and with what seed? What steps did you take?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I dethatched about a month ago and then did a full sand level and then I dropped Champion GQ seed on 9/20 and threw down some 15-15-15 feet with it because I couldn't find milorganite. I watered three times a day for 6 minutes for germination and have backed it off to twice a day for 4 minutes now. I find that the seed germinates quickly when it's warmer and prefer to put it down in the middle of September so I can get my first mow on it somewhere near the start of October when it starts to cool at night. After these next two days it's going to be fantastic weather for the PRG.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hell yeah dude I'm excited for my Champion GQ to get here. I'm not sure what to fertilize it with though. You mentioned you didn't have any milo, if you did would you have gone with that?
Click to expand...

I would have put it down, I'd prefer organic. But, I do have to say nitra king is excellent for overseed fert. I was just lazy and got the bandini from Home Depot to start it off.


----------



## The_iHenry

Bsblcoach1989 said:


> The_iHenry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bsblcoach1989 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I dethatched about a month ago and then did a full sand level and then I dropped Champion GQ seed on 9/20 and threw down some 15-15-15 feet with it because I couldn't find milorganite. I watered three times a day for 6 minutes for germination and have backed it off to twice a day for 4 minutes now. I find that the seed germinates quickly when it's warmer and prefer to put it down in the middle of September so I can get my first mow on it somewhere near the start of October when it starts to cool at night. After these next two days it's going to be fantastic weather for the PRG.
> 
> 
> 
> Hell yeah dude I'm excited for my Champion GQ to get here. I'm not sure what to fertilize it with though. You mentioned you didn't have any milo, if you did would you have gone with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would have put it down, I'd prefer organic. But, I do have to say nitra king is excellent for overseed fert. I was just lazy and got the bandini from Home Depot to start it off.
Click to expand...

I have some milo but I'm gonna save it for the 2nd round. I'm not sure which fertilizer I'm gonna use probably triple 15. 
I made my final PGR application today.


----------



## The_iHenry

Got this today

Put down some milorganite and planted some seed


----------



## Thor865

The_iHenry said:


> Got this today
> 
> Put down some milorganite and planted some seed


This is my champion prg 7 days after seed. Which varieties was in yours?


----------



## The_iHenry

@Thor865 looking good :thumbup: I'm not sure? Where can I check the varieties?


----------



## Tony LaFleur

Just seeded today


----------



## The_iHenry

Tony LaFleur said:


> Just seeded today


Nice. What setting did you use?


----------



## Wfrobinette

Tony LaFleur said:


> Just seeded today


You will see things coming up in 3 days then it will explode by day 5. I swear you can see it grow.


----------



## Tony LaFleur

The_iHenry said:


> Tony LaFleur said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just seeded today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice. What setting did you use?
Click to expand...

Well I really couldn't see it coming out the spreader all that much on the 10 lbs rate- so I opened it up to 17 lbs and made passes both ways/several times. The seed is somewhat large so i guess that's what effected the spreader. My yard is around 3000 sf and I used 25lbs so i think/hope I'm good! 
Guess I'll find out in 4 days!!!


----------



## The_iHenry

@Tony LaFleur I set mine on 10. I used about 40lbs. Im on day 3 and still no germination


----------



## Thor865

The_iHenry said:


> @Thor865 looking good :thumbup: I'm not sure? Where can I check the varieties?


Should of been a tag on it saying varieties, %, and germ rate


----------



## justin144

Seed is down!! 16lbs per 1000sqft. Put 21 pounds on my 1300sqft yard


----------



## Tony LaFleur

The_iHenry said:


> @Tony LaFleur I set mine on 10. I used about 40lbs. Im on day 3 and still no germination


What's it looking like today?


----------



## TheOneWhoKnocks

Do you guys put down any soil or anything with the seed if you're overseeing Ryegrass 
over current Bermuda? I scalped today and thinking about seeding with Annual Ryegrass. I've heard the downsides of it, but the price is where I'm at with it.

I'm in zone 7b right next to Memphis on the Arkansas side.


----------



## The_iHenry

@Thor865 I'll have to look for the tag.

@Tony LaFleur I left the house in a rush this morning so I didn't get a picture but still no germination.

@TheOneWhoKnocks I used a few bags of top soil to level out some low spots


----------



## ktgrok

Question - I had planned to sod my bare backyard with Celebration Bermuda (about 500 sq ft) but haven't had a chance to really prep it, not sure if it will be too late in the year to put down sod when I finally get to it. Would it make sense to throw down rye grass here in Central Florida for the winter, then deal with sodding in the spring?


----------



## justin144

Yes, it's too late for sod. If you want green grass over winter, go with rye


----------



## Wfrobinette

The_iHenry said:


> @Tony LaFleur I set mine on 10. I used about 40lbs. Im on day 3 and still no germination


Did you drag the lawn after seeding? It will help it get down to the soil.

Be patient, don't count the day you applied. Im on day 7 and its coming up like gangbusters. Its at least 3 to 4 inches in spots. I mowed yesterday and its grown an inch again.

I did 10lbs per 1k last week and another 5lbs yesterday..


----------



## The_iHenry

Wfrobinette said:


> The_iHenry said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Tony LaFleur I set mine on 10. I used about 40lbs. Im on day 3 and still no germination
> 
> 
> 
> Did you drag the lawn after seeding? It will help it get down to the soil.
> 
> Be patient, don't count the day you applied. Im on day 7 and its coming up like gangbusters. Its at least 3 to 4 inches in spots. I mowed yesterday and its grown an inch again.
> 
> I did 10lbs per 1k last week and another 5lbs yesterday..
Click to expand...

Yes I used a leaf rake to get the seed in the canopy. I'm just playing the waiting game.


----------



## Nick2879

Hi guys. Been enjoying reading and following your journeys. I seeded Clubhouse PRG on Sunday October 6. The picture is from today. Looks like great germination but I'm concerned with the spot in the front right of the picture. Should I wait or reseed today? I scalped and bagged as low as i could go with my rotary. Dethatched. Spread the seed and rolled and topdressed with a peat moss roller. It gets enough water (same as the rest of the yard). But I did notice i put the peat moss a little heavier in those spots since it seems like a low ground. Thanks for everyone's help!


----------



## stogie1020

Seeded Saturday with Champion GQ. I should have rented a roller, the topper I put down is pretty lumpy.

I left a 1 foot diameter patch of bermuda non-overseeded so I can keep an eye on the "green up" in the spring since none of my neighbors have grass. I want to be able to time the PRG kill-off correctly.


----------



## stogie1020

Is there a recommended height of growth to wait for before the first cut of the PRG?

What height do you guys plan to regularly cut the PRG?


----------



## justin144

Of course 3 days after I seed, we get torrential downpours that washes it all away. Go figure.


----------



## aaron ennis

Same here Justin. I was hoping that it would germinate by day 3 and not wash away but that hasn't happened. You just can't win sometimes.


----------



## Teej

I wish I hadn't thrown down my Pre-M. All this PRG looks like fun!


----------



## aaron ennis

How fast should the PRG germinate? I have religiously watered 3 times a day, 6 minutes at a time, and nothing since Saturday evening.


----------



## justin144

Same here and I'm seeing nothing yet. I think the Annual will germinate faster than PRG. I was hope Ing to see something today, but should definitely see something by this Saturday.


----------



## The_iHenry

aaron ennis said:


> How fast should the PRG germinate? I have religiously watered 3 times a day, 6 minutes at a time, and nothing since Saturday evening.


Be patient I too was like you. Constantly checking for germination. Fight the urge and just enjoy the time off. Today, after a week, I saw the first sprouts. 

I'm not gonna lie I'm super pumped for this


----------



## justin144

I'm contemplating buying some more seed since a lot of mine washed away. I know for sure I will have some bare spots. Glad to see you are finally seeing some progress!


----------



## The_iHenry

justin144 said:


> I'm contemplating buying some more seed since a lot of mine washed away. I know for sure I will have some bare spots.


Make sure to check the forecast.


----------



## justin144

Lol forecast was perfect till I threw seed down!


----------



## The_iHenry

@justin144 pricey seed hopefully it stays dry for you


----------



## M311att

Spotted at the local driving range


----------



## stogie1020

Seeded Saturday, took this pic Thursday night.


----------



## The_iHenry

stogie1020 said:


> Seeded Saturday, took this pic Thursday night.


Did you use top soil?


----------



## stogie1020

The_iHenry said:


> stogie1020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seeded Saturday, took this pic Thursday night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you use top soil?
Click to expand...

I did, "Organic topper" from HD. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Kellogg-Garden-Organics-2-cu-ft-Topper-Lawn-Soil-for-Seed-and-Sod-653/100427389?g_store=482&mtc=Shopping-B-F_D28O-G-D28O-28_3_SOILS_AND_AMENDMENTS-MULTI-NA-Feed-LIA-NA-NA-BASE_SHP&cm_mmc=Shopping-B-F_D28O-G-D28O-28_3_SOILS_AND_AMENDMENTS-MULTI-NA-Feed-LIA-NA-NA-BASE_SHP-71700000033675478-58700003911554572-92700046092897290&gclid=CjwKCAjwxaXtBRBbEiwAPqPxcJhCSlgEELc6CAsXifOk3q2KcJ9ZrRic-0so07zzG4f3KJn1fSe0gRoCl9QQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Clearly it had more large particles than I would have like, but I guess it will all break down eventually.


----------



## The_iHenry

@stogie1020 I used top soil to try to spot level and there was a lot of mulch in there.


----------



## stogie1020

I guess it's par for the course... Doesn't seem to affect the grass, so I won't worry about it too much.


----------



## aaron ennis

Mine sprung up this morning on day 6 after seeding!


----------



## justin144

Hopping on the germination train! Seeing some sprouts on day six. Though I am worried I'll have lots of bare spots after the extremely heavy rain we had a few days ago. I went ahead and ordered some more seed, so I'll be prepared to throw down some more


----------



## stogie1020

Nice!


----------



## aaron ennis

I used SOS 220 Maxx seed and was wondering if it darkens up after germination? At the moment, it is lime green. This is my first time overseeding with ARG so it is all a great mystery to me.


----------



## TheOneWhoKnocks

Got some good germination showing now with the annual Ryegrass. It warmed up a little yesterday and the growth seemed to take off in the mid 70s.


----------



## Tony LaFleur

Day 8 and germination is here and has been noticeable since yesterday. It was a slow start and I was quite impatient. I really think the spells of warmer weather slowed down the progress. I believe I will cut in two days. I have a lot of seed left over and I keep resisting the urge to thrower down! Upon completion of the first cut I will make my decision if I will apply more seed. Keep you posted!


----------



## erdons

I was considering it but got some hot weather still hanging on, Might not seed with PRG this year.


----------



## aaron ennis

It looks like I got good coverage and the seed didn't wash too badly in the hard rain.


----------



## Tony LaFleur

aaron ennis said:


> It looks like I got good coverage and the seed didn't wash too badly in the hard rain.


When do you plan on cutting?


----------



## aaron ennis

Tony LaFleur said:


> aaron ennis said:
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like I got good coverage and the seed didn't wash too badly in the hard rain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When do you plan on cutting?
Click to expand...

From what I am reading, probably around the 14 day mark from germination. I will tug on some pieces to make sure they snap and don't pull out by the root first. Today is day 4.


----------



## probasestealer

Day 21 pics. Seeded in the 90s, have cut 3x. Should look better once it starts to tiller/thicker.
Poor lighting makes it look more washed out (light green) than it is


----------



## stogie1020

What HOC are you guys planning for your winter over-seed Rye?


----------



## The_iHenry

My front yard is looking pretty good. I gotta go over it again because it didn't germinate well in some spots. I have been working a lot of hours here recently so I've been leaving in the dark and coming home in the dark. I was able to get this picture of the back yesterday where I'm having trouble.



@stogie1020 I plan on starting off at 7/8" and moving down to 5/8".


----------



## stogie1020

@The_iHenry , Thanks.

The reason I asked is that my limited web reading about PRG seemed to indicate that it liked to be cut at 1 inch or greater for better root depth.


----------



## The_iHenry

@stogie1020 I believe Mr.@Ware was mowing his PRG at 3/4"


----------



## Ware

5/8 to 3/4" was the sweet spot for me.


----------



## stogie1020

Wow, cool!


----------



## stogie1020

if you use a pre-emergent, I am wondering how you time it with the overseed?


----------



## The_iHenry

Before:

After:

Mowed at 3/4"

@Thor865 I found the tag


----------



## Ware

stogie1020 said:


> if you use a pre-emergent, I am wondering how you time it with the overseed?


Your pre-e label should address it. For example, this is from the Prodiamine 65 WDG label:


----------



## aaron ennis

I am super pleased with the growth and coverage on day 10 after seeding! I am going to give it the first mow tomorrow at 1" and take it down to .5" over the next couple of weeks.


----------



## The_iHenry

aaron ennis said:


> I am super pleased with the growth and coverage on day 10 after seeding! I am going to give it the first mow tomorrow at 1" and take it down to .5" over the next couple of weeks.


You got some good coverage. Be sure to post the stripes


----------



## stogie1020

OK, thanks @Ware.

EDIT: Sorry for the hijack, I will continue this in the pre-emergent thread.


----------



## thelawnpirate

With this being my first season "actively" into the lawn, I wasn't planning on attempting to overseed. However, I'm having second thoughts and might want to give it a go just on my backyard area (approx. 800sqft.). Would be my first time overseeding and a small test run this year might help. Another minor reason I'm having second thoughts is $100+ in Amazon gift card money burning a hole in my pocket, with no real inputs needed for rest of the year on my Bermuda.

Is it too late here in DFW? Soil temps now into the mid-60s with showing the air temps highs/lows also in the mid to high-60s down to the high 40s for the next 10 days.

I know my best seed options aren't coming from Amazon, but anything on there worth trying for a little experiment?


----------



## Ware

stogie1020 said:


> OK, thanks Ware. I am totally new to this, it worries me to have two months go by with no weed control, though. How long before scalping Bermuda for the overseed should I be applying the Prodiamine to have some level of weed control for the two month period of the overseed pause?


See the *When to Overseed After Application* section I posted above. The number of months you should wait before overseeding depends on the Prodiamine rate you applied. You basically do not want to have any pre-e barrier during/after the overseed - otherwise the PRG will not germinate/establish.


----------



## stogie1020

OK, got it. Thx!


----------



## Bmossin

thelawnpirate said:


> With this being my first season "actively" into the lawn, I wasn't planning on attempting to overseed. However, I'm having second thoughts and might want to give it a go just on my backyard area (approx. 800sqft.). Would be my first time overseeding and a small test run this year might help. Another minor reason I'm having second thoughts is $100+ in Amazon gift card money burning a hole in my pocket, with no real inputs needed for rest of the year on my Bermuda.
> 
> Is it too late here in DFW? Soil temps now into the mid-60s with showing the air temps highs/lows also in the mid to high-60s down to the high 40s for the next 10 days.
> 
> I know my best seed options aren't coming from Amazon, but anything on there worth trying for a little experiment?


If sticking with amazon, this could be fine for a project. I do not think it is too late, I tend to throw down and hope lol. I liked Greenview products and used them when we lived in Ohio. I have also used some of their product since we have lived here.

Make sure you use the TLF affiliate link when you buy... 

https://www.amazon.com/GreenView-2829354-Fairway-Perennial-Ryegrass/dp/B07SJTT2ZM/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=XNWJG2U781AB&keywords=perennial+ryegrass+seed&qid=1571845470&s=lawn-garden&sprefix=%2Clawngarden%2C155&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExUE9QN0RUNkNEMEEwJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjcxMzYxMjk4NjBCUjJHUEM2SSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNjExMzI5M0ZZNlZVSkRTVDE5QyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


----------



## Ware

stogie1020 said:


> OK, got it. Thx!


I moved this conversation over here.

For a lawn that has been maintained under a solid pre-emergent regimen, weed pressure should be minimal/non-existent during the window when you need to _not_ have a pre-e barrier.

If you do have weed pressure leading up to the overseed, or anticipate weed pressure during 60 days after overseeding, I would probably skip the overseed and focus on getting the weeds under control.


----------



## Movingshrub

Has anyone seen a product label for SRO Champion EZEE or TransFix? I am curious what cultivars are included. Furthermore, anyone seen Harrier PRG on the market yet?


----------



## stogie1020

Ware said:


> stogie1020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, got it. Thx!
> 
> 
> 
> I moved this conversation over here.
> 
> For a lawn that has been maintained under a solid pre-emergent regimen, weed pressure should be minimal/non-existent during the window when you need to _not_ have a pre-e barrier.
> 
> If you do have weed pressure leading up to the overseed, or anticipate weed pressure during 60 days after overseeding, I would probably skip the overseed and focus on getting the weeds under control.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the move. I have not done Pre-E before, so will just start with the 60 day post seeding app and spot treat anything that appears prior to that.


----------



## Thor865

Champion prg 21 days young


----------



## Reel Low Dad

Here is my SOSMaxx annual rye 11 days after seeding. So far so good but it is still early.


----------



## Thor865

Movingshrub said:


> Has anyone seen a product label for SRO Champion EZEE or TransFix? I am curious what cultivars are included. Furthermore, anyone seen Harrier PRG on the market yet?


My champion blend was sr4650, sideways, monsieur

Some other guys that got champion after me was karma, zoom, monsieur

Champion prg is champion prg. Whatever blend you get will be awesome. I've never seen anyone unhappy with champion blend before


----------



## Tony LaFleur

Thor865 said:


> Champion prg 21 days young


Amazing


----------



## Rooster

Thor865 said:


> Champion prg 21 days young


Absolutely stunning at 21 days. I bet you wish you didn't live next to weed salad though.


----------



## Ware

Looks great @Thor865! :thumbup:


----------



## stogie1020

Wow, those both look amazing Reel Low and Thor!


----------



## Movingshrub

Thor865 said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone seen a product label for SRO Champion EZEE or TransFix? I am curious what cultivars are included. Furthermore, anyone seen Harrier PRG on the market yet?
> 
> 
> 
> My champion blend was sr4650, sideways, monsieur
> 
> Some other guys that got champion after me was karma, zoom, monsieur
> 
> Champion prg is champion prg. Whatever blend you get will be awesome. I've never seen anyone unhappy with champion blend before
Click to expand...

I had two different blends of GQ when I used it last year. One blend included SR4650, Dasher, and Mighty, while the other was SR4600, SR 4650, and sideways.

I'm just curious what the contents are of the SRO products where they are implying it's better use for overseeding due to either cost or easy of chemical removal in the spring. If the SRO EZEE blend is two of the three used in GQ, with one item replaced with an intermediate plend PRG, that results in the cost being 1/2, that might be a contender.

By comparison, I was looking at Barenbrug PRG options. I can't find anywhere locally that sells Turf Star or Top Flight. However, I did see that through home depot someone can order barenbrug parkside PRG (which goes into Turf Star) at $127 for a 50lb bag. If I overseed, I'm going to need at least three bags, more likely four to five bags. I'd prefer not to spend $600 each year for a grass that I'm going to kill in a few months.


----------



## Redtwin

Movingshrub said:


> I'd prefer not to spend $600 each year for a grass that I'm going to kill in a few months.


I'm with you there but I was actually considering maybe just having a small winter putting green to test the PRG waters.


----------



## Wfrobinette

Reel Low Dad said:


> Here is my SOSMaxx annual rye 11 days after seeding. So far so good but it is still early.


Nice! here is mine at 20 days. It is being mowed at 2 inches with my rotary now. It grows so fast and thin i can't cut it with my swardman. I suspect as it mature blades will thicken and be easier to mow with a reel. I have some spots that were being missed by irrigation.


----------



## Wfrobinette

Movingshrub said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone seen a product label for SRO Champion EZEE or TransFix? I am curious what cultivars are included. Furthermore, anyone seen Harrier PRG on the market yet?
> 
> 
> 
> My champion blend was sr4650, sideways, monsieur
> 
> Some other guys that got champion after me was karma, zoom, monsieur
> 
> Champion prg is champion prg. Whatever blend you get will be awesome. I've never seen anyone unhappy with champion blend before
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I had two different blends of GQ when I used it last year. One blend included SR4650, Dasher, and Mighty, while the other was SR4600, SR 4650, and sideways.
> 
> I'm just curious what the contents are of the SRO products where they are implying it's better use for overseeding due to either cost or easy of chemical removal in the spring. If the SRO EZEE blend is two of the three used in GQ, with one item replaced with an intermediate plend PRG, that results in the cost being 1/2, that might be a contender.
> 
> By comparison, I was looking at Barenbrug PRG options. I can't find anywhere locally that sells Turf Star or Top Flight. However, I did see that through home depot someone can order barenbrug parkside PRG (which goes into Turf Star) at $127 for a 50lb bag. If I overseed, I'm going to need at least three bags, more likely four to five bags. I'd prefer not to spend $600 each year for a grass that I'm going to kill in a few months.
Click to expand...

Check out barenbrug arg sos maxx. Its significantly cheaper and so far looks pretty good. Plus i don't think it will need to be killed as it should die off on its own.

I know a few of us are trying it. If i get decent results without the need to spray to kill, it a huge win in my book.

If its good enough for an NFL team (the eagles) its good enough for me.


----------



## Movingshrub

@Wfrobinette Thanks for the suggestion. I may try two different types. Something familiar such as GQ on the front yard and something else, like an intermediate rye, on the back


----------



## stogie1020

I have some bare spots that the seed did not sprout in, and I used up all the ChampionGQ I had... I guess I will have a spotted lawn since I am going to get some cheapo throw down seed from Lowes...


----------



## zcabe

Here's mine 12 days after seeding and first cut at 1".


----------



## justin144

Here is my lawn 15 days after seeding at 16lbs/1000 and then some of it getting washed away from very heavy rains. It's pretty patchy in some spots. I got another bag of Champion GQ, which I will be throwing down today, but it is a different mix this time. Guess I will have a 6-way blend of PRG here soon.


----------



## Wfrobinette

21 days

first reel cut that looks decent.

1.25"


----------



## Bmossin

Wfrobinette said:


> 21 days
> 
> first reel cut that looks decent.
> 
> 1.25"


Those stripes!


----------



## Wfrobinette

Bmossin said:


> Wfrobinette said:
> 
> 
> 
> 21 days
> 
> first reel cut that looks decent.
> 
> 1.25"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those stripes!
Click to expand...

Just wish i could get them straighter.


----------



## The_iHenry

Mowed the back yard for the first time







I still have some problem areas that I need to reseed but I'm really liking those stripes


----------



## zcabe

Don't mind the leaves. Just spread some more seed in the slow to germinate areas a few days ago so cannot use the blower right now. Just mixed a concoction of RGS 3oz/k, 0-0-2 MicroGreen 4oz/k, and 6oz/k of 12-0-0 w/ 6% Fe, 4% S, and 2% Mn and sprayed this morning.


----------



## justin144

Well my second batch of PRG came in and a spread it on Sunday since the first round got swept away from heavy rain. Two days later, we get two more days of heavy rain &#128518;&#128514;&#128557;&#128557; Now we are under Freeze Warning. I give up lol.


----------



## The_iHenry

justin144 said:


> Well my second batch of PRG came in and a spread it on Sunday since the first round got swept away from heavy rain. Two days later, we get two more days of heavy rain 😆😂😭😭 Now we are under Freeze Warning. I give up lol.


Lol. That's rough.


----------



## stogie1020

Day 18, one mow:


----------



## Rooster

stogie1020 said:


> Day 18, one mow:


How'd the push reel do cutting the PRG? How high did you cut it?


----------



## stogie1020

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> stogie1020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Day 18, one mow:
> 
> 
> 
> How'd the push reel do cutting the PRG? How high did you cut it?
Click to expand...

Funny you ask, I thought it was broken at first because it was SO easy to cut as compared to the Bermuda... It required nearly zero effort with the push reel.

I did the initial cut at 2", planning to lower it to 1-1.5" once it's well established.


----------



## zcabe

2nd Mow. Single Double Single.


----------



## Thor865

zcabe said:


> 2nd Mow. Single Double Single.


Excellent work!


----------



## Ware

Did someone say ryegrass? :bandit:


----------



## zeus201

^ Looks great for sissy grass &#128517;


----------



## The_iHenry

@zeus201 sissy grass is the funnest.


----------



## The_iHenry

zcabe said:


> 2nd Mow. Single Double Single.


Single double is probably the best looking pattern


----------



## The_iHenry

Ware said:


> Did someone say ryegrass? :bandit:


Nice to see you did the front as well this year


----------



## The_iHenry

Congrats @Thor865 Sissy grass FTLOTM!


----------



## Thor865

Ware said:


> Did someone say ryegrass? :bandit:


Ware have you been hiding overseeding from us this year? Or have I missed the memo you was doing the entire yard! Looks great.


----------



## Ware

Thor865 said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did someone say ryegrass? :bandit:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ware have you been hiding overseeding from us this year? Or have I missed the memo you was doing the entire yard! Looks great.
Click to expand...

Well, I was kind of keeping it under wraps to surprise @dfw_pilot, @Redtenchu and @J_nick when they came to visit this weekend. I wanted to make sure they were making the trip for the right reasons, and not just to lay some sick stripes. :lol:

[cough] @Mightyquinn [cough]

Big shout out to @DJLCN for his help getting this project done this year. :thumbup:


----------



## Mightyquinn

@Ware I think I will be alright since I've mowed that lawn before


----------



## cglarsen

I used a couple brands of seed this year. One says mow after 25 days. Another says mow when grass reaches 3 inches.

I'm 19 days post-seeding. Grass is getting long and I plan to mow it high ~ 3 inches. Any reason not to go ahead and cut?


----------



## Bmossin

It is addicting how this stripes.


----------



## stogie1020

Mowing at 1.5 inches. The prg is so soft, the wheels on the mower press down little rows of grass that then don't get mowed. I had to go back over them in the reverse direction with my foot before a second, perpendicular cut, just to not have 20" ridges in the lawn.


----------



## stogie1020

Also, found a new weed in the prg... Looks to be very difficult to get rid of...



The six week old approves of the prg, she promptly feel asleep laying there.


----------



## Ware

stogie1020 said:


> Also, found a new weed in the prg... Looks to be very difficult to get rid of...
> 
> 
> 
> The six week old approves of the prg, she promptly feel asleep laying there.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cnet24

@Ware nice! Glad to see you back on the PRG train.


----------



## Ware

cnet24 said:


> Ware nice! Glad to see you back on the PRG train.


Thanks! It's a beautiful grass!

I went with the Winfield house blend this year. Somehow I managed to not take a picture of the blend label, but I'm almost convinced it doesn't matter when it's the greenest thing in town. It was coated with a plant growth stimulator. Price was $71.50/bag (local pickup - no shipping).


----------



## TN Hawkeye

stogie1020 said:


> Also, found a new weed in the prg... Looks to be very difficult to get rid of...
> 
> 
> 
> The six week old approves of the prg, she promptly feel asleep laying there.


There are "pre emergents" to prevent those weeds but some people intentionally grow them. If everything goes right they disappear out of the lawn after about 18 years. But from what I hear you spend the next few years wishing they were back.


----------



## Ware

I think I posted this photo in another thread, but guest mows are the best mows...


----------



## Rooster

stogie1020 said:


> Mowing at 1.5 inches. The prg is so soft, the wheels on the mower press down little rows of grass that then don't get mowed. I had to go back over them in the reverse direction with my foot before a second, perpendicular cut, just to not have 20" ridges in the lawn.


I wonder if the softness would matter less if you cut lower? I would think you'd get less matting and flopping.


----------



## Cavan806

First cut on the overseed this year.


----------



## stogie1020

TN Hawkeye said:


> stogie1020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, found a new weed in the prg... Looks to be very difficult to get rid of...
> 
> 
> 
> The six week old approves of the prg, she promptly feel asleep laying there.
> 
> 
> 
> There are "pre emergents" to prevent those weeds but some people intentionally grow them. If everything goes right they disappear out of the lawn after about 18 years. But from what I hear you spend the next few years wishing they were back.
Click to expand...

 :lol: well played!


----------



## stogie1020

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> stogie1020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mowing at 1.5 inches. The prg is so soft, the wheels on the mower press down little rows of grass that then don't get mowed. I had to go back over them in the reverse direction with my foot before a second, perpendicular cut, just to not have 20" ridges in the lawn.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if the softness would matter less if you cut lower? I would think you'd get less matting and flopping.
Click to expand...

I bet you are right. I am limited to 1" as the lowest HOC I can go as that's the lowest setting available on the push reel I use. I will try it that low and see if it helps.


----------



## Rooster

stogie1020 said:


> Bermuda_Rooster said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if the softness would matter less if you cut lower? I would think you'd get less matting and flopping.
> 
> 
> 
> I bet you are right. I am limited to 1" as the lowest HOC I can go as that's the lowest setting available on the push reel I use. I will try it that low and see if it helps.
Click to expand...

I hope it does. In theory I'll be mowing some annual ryegrass for a month or two next Spring with a push reel.


----------



## Nick2879

Hi everyone. Just wanted to thank you all for the help and information this past year. After seeing how our overseed turned out my wife doesn't think all the time I spend here is a waste of time anymore 😂


----------



## Ware

Nick2879 said:


> Hi everyone. Just wanted to thank you all for the help and information this past year. After seeing how our overseed turned out my wife doesn't think all the time I spend here is a waste of time anymore 😂


Nice! :thumbup:


----------



## Thor865

Nick2879 said:


> Hi everyone. Just wanted to thank you all for the help and information this past year. After seeing how our overseed turned out my wife doesn't think all the time I spend here is a waste of time anymore 😂


Looks nice and lush. What was your seed rate /1k and variety?


----------



## J_nick

Ware said:


> I think I posted this photo in another thread, but guest mows are the best mows...


Dang Ware, that might be the best mow job I've seen on your lawn :lol:


----------



## Nick2879

Thor865 said:


> Nick2879 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi everyone. Just wanted to thank you all for the help and information this past year. After seeing how our overseed turned out my wife doesn't think all the time I spend here is a waste of time anymore 😂
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks nice and lush. What was your seed rate /1k and variety?
Click to expand...

Thanks. I seeded 39lbs per 3200k on oct 6. I ordered champion gq but they sent me clubhouse gq. I'm happy with it. Coming in nicely. I used the rest on oct 26 to help fill in the bare areas.


----------



## zcabe

4th mow put single double single again. 3rd mow I did 2 nights ago single single horizontal but finished in the dark so couldn't get any pictures.


----------



## Cavan806

zcabe said:


> 4th mow put single double single again. 3rd mow I did 2 nights ago single single horizontal but finished in the dark so couldn't get any pictures.


Man this looks good. That color is awesome. Nice Work!


----------



## stogie1020

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> stogie1020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bermuda_Rooster said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if the softness would matter less if you cut lower? I would think you'd get less matting and flopping.
> 
> 
> 
> I bet you are right. I am limited to 1" as the lowest HOC I can go as that's the lowest setting available on the push reel I use. I will try it that low and see if it helps.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hope it does. In theory I'll be mowing some annual ryegrass for a month or two next Spring with a push reel.
Click to expand...

I cut last night at 1" and the channels the wheels made were much less noticeable. Follow up mow this weekend should prove easier as there won't be giant mohawk lines where the wheels pushed this soft wet grass down prior to cutting. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Rooster

stogie1020 said:


> I cut last night at 1" and the channels the wheels made were much less noticeable. Follow up mow this weekend should prove easier as there won't be giant mohawk lines where the wheels pushed this soft wet grass down prior to cutting. Thanks for the suggestion.


Awesome. I'm glad to hear it's going to work okay. about 1" was what I was thinking for annual rye, so maybe that will work out okay for me too.


----------



## The_iHenry

Repairing some bare spots that didn't take to well.


----------



## Francoix

@The_iHenry The back lawn looks great! Are you cutting it too low that the stripes dont show up? How is the front the lawn doing?


----------



## stogie1020

@The_iHenry , looking nice! I have a few bare spots as well, too bad the PRG doesn't spread/fill on it's own like the Bermuda does...


----------



## The_iHenry

Francoix said:


> @The_iHenry The back lawn looks great! Are you cutting it too low that the stripes dont show up? How is the front the lawn doing?


It striped really well after the last mow its just been about a week since I've mowed.

The front is looking ok I just spread some ironite on Wednesday.


----------



## The_iHenry

stogie1020 said:


> @The_iHenry , looking nice! I have a few bare spots as well, too bad the PRG doesn't spread/fill on it's own like the Bermuda does...


Yeah I'm ribbing low on seed. I might have to order a small bag just to fill in the remaining spots.


----------



## ktgrok

Ware said:


> I think I posted this photo in another thread, but guest mows are the best mows...


After the photo with the baby I did a double take on this one - have to say, the baby did it better :lol:


----------



## ktgrok

man, y'all! I am so jealous of those yards. I hadn't planned to over seed since it is my yard's first year, but honestly, it isn't as thick as I want and I'm planning to renovate in some fashion in the spring anyway with a different bermuda, so now overseeding sounds great. Except - I put down a low rate of dithiopyr granular a month ago. Pretty sure that means I shouldn't try it - although I did see some studies that showed dithiopyr didn't have THAT much of an effect. If I could do it, I'm thinking that the rye would help crowd out weeds this winter. Plus, you know, look awesome. But given that I did put down that low rate of pre emergent would it just end up coming in spotty and terrible looking? Or could I try and if it looked patchy just kill it with MSM?


----------



## Redtwin

I wouldn't. With first year turf and dithiopyr app you are asking for headaches and heartache.


----------



## zcabe

Finally took it down reel low today!









Went ahead and fertilized again.


----------



## Wfrobinette

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> stogie1020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mowing at 1.5 inches. The prg is so soft, the wheels on the mower press down little rows of grass that then don't get mowed. I had to go back over them in the reverse direction with my foot before a second, perpendicular cut, just to not have 20" ridges in the lawn.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if the softness would matter less if you cut lower? I would think you'd get less matting and flopping.
Click to expand...

Im struggling to get it lower. With the time change, its dark when i get home. So i only get to mow on weekends. The stuff is at 4 inches in a week.


----------



## Ware

Wfrobinette said:


> Im struggling to get it lower. With the time change, its dark when i get home. So i only get to mow on weekends. The stuff is at 4 inches in a week.


Interesting on the growth rate of that annual rye.

Perennial rye grows much slower. I'm currently mowing my PRG about once a week at 5/8". Sometimes I cut it twice a week, but one of them is more of a charity mow.


----------



## Rooster

Wfrobinette said:


> Im struggling to get it lower. With the time change, its dark when i get home. So i only get to mow on weekends. The stuff is at 4 inches in a week.


I've heard it can be a fast grower this time of year, and I can see why daylight is a serious problem with mowing. Mine will basically be dormant seeded by the builder, so I don't even know when to expect germination. But I suspect that when March rolls around it's going to start going gangbusters like yours is now.


----------



## stogie1020

Wfrobinette said:


> Bermuda_Rooster said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stogie1020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mowing at 1.5 inches. The prg is so soft, the wheels on the mower press down little rows of grass that then don't get mowed. I had to go back over them in the reverse direction with my foot before a second, perpendicular cut, just to not have 20" ridges in the lawn.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if the softness would matter less if you cut lower? I would think you'd get less matting and flopping.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Im struggling to get it lower. With the time change, its dark when i get home. So i only get to mow on weekends. The stuff is at 4 inches in a week.
Click to expand...

My PRG is growing like gangbusters (hey, the milorganite works!), I definitely break the 1/3 rule, but the grass does not seem to mind. No browning as of yet. Also, I thought the membership test for TLF was whether you mow in the dark!!


----------



## robertmehrer

I need to throw down more seed I think. You guys have such thick prg. Of course mines only been growing since the 3rd/4th of this month but i mean cmon lol your yards are insane. Lol.

Maybe 12 days of growth and one cut...


----------



## jakemauldin

Annual Ryegrass. I work nights and I checked my walkway when I got home Sunday morning since I had more viewable seed there and at 0700 it had zero germination. I woke up and went to leave for work at 1700 and this is what I found...


Talk about amazingly fast growth. This was 7 days after seeding


----------



## jbow03

So, my annual Rye has shot to life and is doing a great job for me.

I've seen where some kill off the Perrenial Rye in the spring with a chem app, do you do the same with annual? I know this Houston heat will ultimate push the Annual Rye out, but I may want to accelerate the end of the rye!!

Best part, the wife loves it! Should help with the FY2020 lawn budget allocations!

Scalp and Overseed day:


First Reel Cut (after getting it down a bit with the Honda push):


----------



## Ware

jbow03 said:


> ...I've seen where some kill off the Perrenial Rye in the spring with a chem app, do you do the same with annual? I know this Houston heat will ultimate push the Annual Rye out, but I may want to accelerate the end of the rye!!


I would kill it - rye can be allelopathic.


----------



## robertmehrer

jakemauldin said:


> Annual Ryegrass. I work nights and I checked my walkway when I got home Sunday morning since I had more viewable seed there and at 0700 it had zero germination. I woke up and went to leave for work at 1700 and this is what I found...
> 
> 
> Talk about amazingly fast growth. This was 7 days after seeding


Yea it grows extremely fast!


----------



## justin144

Having really bad issues in one spot. It was doing fine. Was filled in and green. Its been about ~4 weeks and soil has been staying moist. Now it's dying quickly and spreading. Not sure if this is because this due to the recent cold temps and being wet, or what. Any advice?


----------



## stogie1020

Is your neighbor's yard pulling all the moisture out of your yard since he is likely not irrigating due to dormancy?


----------



## justin144

He's not watering, but I don't think that's the case. I've been keeping the soil moist since day one


----------



## The_iHenry

@justin144 I'm having similar issues. I reseeded and added some top soil about 2 weeks ago. I started seeing germination earlier this week. 





I haven't mowed since the 1st and I'm itching to get a mow job.


----------



## zcabe

Need to clean the leaves up and mow. These pics were from this morning.


----------



## stogie1020

I am curious if there are any health advantages for the bermuda to NOT overseed with prg? Let's assume no allelopathy issues due to a kill-off of the PRG at the beginning of spring.

Should overseeders consider taking one year off every few years from overseeding for the benefit of the bermuda?


----------



## WDE46

I googled around and found a paper on the subject then started reading about how bermudas came to be and found out Glenn Burton literally fired gamma radiation at some bermuda stolons and planted them to see what would happen and came up with Tifway II

So I don't have an answer for you because I got distracted but neat factoid is the result.

Here's that paper
https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10355/10261/research.pdf?sequence=3&isAllowed=y

https://www.walterreeves.com/lawn-care/the-story-of-bermudagrass-dr-glenn-burton/


----------



## Brodgers88

justin144 said:


> Having really bad issues in one spot. It was doing fine. Was filled in and green. Its been about ~4 weeks and soil has been staying moist. Now it's dying quickly and spreading. Not sure if this is because this due to the recent cold temps and being wet, or what. Any advice?


@justin144 I wonder if your neighbor applied a pre or post-emergent that could have moved through the soil and affected your rye. Just a thought since the neighbors yard looks like it slopes down towards yours where you're having the issue.


----------



## justin144

@Brodgers88 I think you are probably right. We had heavy rains recently and it must've carried the water down onto my new lawn. Erg. Ah well, I'll just call it a loss. Not much else I can do at this point.


----------



## Ware

Brodgers88 said:


> justin144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having really bad issues in one spot. It was doing fine. Was filled in and green. Its been about ~4 weeks and soil has been staying moist. Now it's dying quickly and spreading. Not sure if this is because this due to the recent cold temps and being wet, or what. Any advice?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> justin144 I wonder if your neighbor applied a pre or post-emergent that could have moved through the soil and affected your rye. Just a thought since the neighbors yard looks like it slopes down towards yours where you're having the issue.
Click to expand...

Wow, good theory @Brodgers88. :thumbup:


----------



## stogie1020

WDE46 said:


> I googled around and found a paper on the subject then started reading about how bermudas came to be and found out Glenn Burton literally fired gamma radiation at some bermuda stolons and planted them to see what would happen and came up with Tifway II
> 
> So I don't have an answer for you because I got distracted but neat factoid is the result.
> 
> Here's that paper
> https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10355/10261/research.pdf?sequence=3&isAllowed=y
> 
> https://www.walterreeves.com/lawn-care/the-story-of-bermudagrass-dr-glenn-burton/


That gave me a really good laugh, thanks! Also, very good paper, much appreciated.


----------



## jakemauldin

Four days difference


----------



## zcabe

Trim at 1/2" today. Much deeper green and stripes harder when I trim at higher HOC. Need to decide how I'm going to maintain the rest of the season.


----------



## robertmehrer

Little less than a month growth from nothing. I have a few weeds but it's filling in nicely.


----------



## The_iHenry

@robertmehrer it filled in nicely. I have some weeds in mine too but I'm not sure how to treat them?


----------



## robertmehrer

The_iHenry said:


> @robertmehrer it filled in nicely. I have some weeds in mine too but I'm not sure how to treat them?


I still have seeds germinating so I haven't sprayed or treated yet. I've been pulling them...


----------



## Ware




----------



## AZChemist

stogie1020 said:


> I am curious if there are any health advantages for the bermuda to NOT overseed with prg? Let's assume no allelopathy issues due to a kill-off of the PRG at the beginning of spring.
> 
> Should overseeders consider taking one year off every few years from overseeding for the benefit of the bermuda?


Not so much a health advantage, but come spring the bermuda comes out of dormancy much faster when it is not competing against the rye. 
Can't speak for everyone but when you overseed at 20lbs/k or more the rye tends to be pretty thick. In AZ it will stay around until May until the temps creep up 100 degrees.

I have read local articles that suggest over seeding should be done 1 year on. 1 off. Assuming this applies to the average home owner and not the lawn care demographic.

This is my section of PRG that I planted on the 2nd week of October. I've maintained it at 0.5"


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## AZChemist

AZChemist said:


> stogie1020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious if there are any health advantages for the bermuda to NOT overseed with prg? Let's assume no allelopathy issues due to a kill-off of the PRG at the beginning of spring.
> 
> Should overseeders consider taking one year off every few years from overseeding for the benefit of the bermuda?
> 
> 
> 
> Not so much a health advantage, but come spring the bermuda comes out of dormancy much faster when it is not competing against the rye.
> Can't speak for everyone but when you overseed at 20lbs/k or more the rye tends to be pretty thick. In AZ it will stay around until May until the temps creep up 100 degrees.
> 
> I have read local articles that suggest over seeding should be done 1 year on. 1 off. Assuming this applies to the average home owner and not the lawn care demographic.
Click to expand...

This is my section of PRG that I planted on the 2nd week of October. I've maintained it at 0.5".


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## robertmehrer

Ware said:


>


Dude you always impress!!


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## Ware

AZChemist said:


> ...This is my section of PRG that I planted on the 2nd week of October. I've maintained it at 0.5"


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## The_iHenry

@Ware overseeding isn't very common in your area.

@AZChemist that looks awesome. Very defined stripes!


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## robertmehrer

Beautiful day in central Florida. My son wanted to mow the yard ..


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## The_iHenry

Still trying to fill it all in


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## stogie1020

Nice stripes!


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## Ware

https://youtu.be/-B_DwaL70bM


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## zcabe




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## The_iHenry




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## ktgrok

what is everyone using for weed control, if anything, in their rye? I seeded a small fenced area in the back with it, and am starting to see some weeds - in past years we had a ton of some kind of stinging nettle and I do NOT want to deal with those again! Central Florida area, I have on hand celsius, certainty, and Dismiss. Also have easy access to Tractor Supply to pick up other stuff. So, what's the go to in weed control with this stuff? 
(it was seeded on bare dirt, and in the spring I'll be either seeding bermuda or sodding bermuda)


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## Brodgers88

@ktgrok Speedzone is good to use for the broadleaf stuff in the rye. You can also use the speedzone on the Bermuda in the cooler weather.


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## boots4321

Hey all, I'm looking a little splotchy on my prg. I think it's from a granular ironite app a couple of weeks ago? You can see the dark patches where it looks like the pellets fell. In OK and we have iron deficient soil. I'm switching to FAS spraying and hope everything greens out. Anyone else have experience with the spots?


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## Ware

boots4321 said:


> Hey all, I'm looking a little splotchy on my prg. I think it's from a granular ironite app a couple of weeks ago? You can see the dark patches where it looks like the pellets fell. In OK and we have iron deficient soil. I'm switching to FAS spraying and hope everything greens out. Anyone else have experience with the spots?


My PRG went through a spell this year (back in late October) where it was very splotchy. I'm still not completely sure what caused it. I did not experience it with my 2017 overseed.


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## boots4321

Interesting. I hit my backyard with liquid FAS a week ago and it seems better than my front. I'll start doing liquid in the front and we'll see how it responds.


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## Dangerlawn

When you are overseeding Bermuda with rye, is it safe to use tenacity? Or would the damage it does the Bermuda not be worth the weed control?


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## stogie1020

Nights in the mid to low 40's here, PRG growth is super slow right now. I mowed this weekend and there were barely any trimmings.

I didn't think growth rate would be so affected by the temps.


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## Ware

I shot a gopher in this spot with my suppressed .22 LR pistol a couple months ago. I didn't dig him up because I didn't want to cause more damage to the PRG. Turns out gophers make pretty good organic fertilizer. :thumbup:

@thegrassfactor


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## cnet24

@Ware that is awesome haha


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## stogie1020

So.... The 6' by 3' patch of really fast growing PRG is the neighbor you didn't like?

*Stogie backs slowly away from Ware's lawn...*


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## Ware

stogie1020 said:


> So.... The 6' by 3' patch of really fast growing PRG is the neighbor you didn't like?
> 
> *Stogie backs slowly away from Ware's lawn...*


 :lol:


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## zcabe

Update 1/15/20. Been really busy lately and not had a chance to cut so it's really shaggy.


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## JKH7

Looking good. That's a beautiful magnolia you have there


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## zcabe

Finally cut it this afternoon. Went ahead and double cut some diamonds.


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## bretben55

Cut mine Saturday at ~1". Over seeded back in October, but didn't really get dark and thick until I fertilized last month.


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## jakemauldin

So when are we going to kill off our Rye? I want my Bermuda to have plenty of growth time because I plan to do some major leveling this year.


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## The_iHenry

jakemauldin said:


> So when are we going to kill off our Rye? I want my Bermuda to have plenty of growth time because I plan to do some major leveling this year.


Good question. I plan on killing my rye mid March and hope my bermuda wakes up in early April.


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## Ware

I'm loving mine at the moment - it basically got cold enough here that it quit growing, but it's still nice and green. I have only mowed it once since @OD on Grass and @LeftTool visited in early December, and that was more or less a charity mow - just to lay down some fresh stripes. :thumbup:

I'm thinking I will probably spray it in late February or early March, or a 2-3 weeks before I plan to scalp - whichever comes first.


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## jakemauldin

Ware said:


> I'm loving mine at the moment - it basically quit growing, but it's still nice and green. I have only mowed it once and that was more or less a charity mow - just to lay down some fresh stripes.
> I'm thinking I will probably spray it in late February or early March, or a 2-3 weeks before I plan to scalp - whichever comes first.


It has been nice to only need to mow a couple times and still enjoy the Green. I like the idea of Late February just to make sure the Rye is good and gone to prevent the rye roots from soaking up nutrients that could otherwise be going to our Favorite Grass (Bermuda). @Ware I read this article -http://grounds-mag.com/mag/grounds_maintenance_removing_overseeded_ryegrass/about transitioning back. From what I gathered from this article was an option that seemed to work well was applying Ammonium Nitrate at 2lb/k every 2 weeks until it had disappeared. The other was applying Atrazine but only after 50% green up of the Bermuda, anything less caused browning and basically didn't look good during the transition.


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## jbow03

Not sure why, but mine is getting a little thin around the edges.

I never really saw my Bermuda go "dormant" either. We over the last week it has really started to darken up with green.

These Houston temps are already kicking it into gear! MSM is on the shelf and ready! Hopefully I can wait to mid/late feb to start pushing the rye back, but seeing this Bermuda come on strong is getting me pretty excited!


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## Nick2879

Hi. Over seeded back in October. Was nice and green until December when i noticed the Bermuda was totally dormant and the brown mixed in with the green. But just yesterday I noticed the tips of the rye is yellow throughout the lawn (still a lot of green) Fungus or something? Any help is appreciated.


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## Kizzle65

I put down PRG down this season and about 60% took but I think that was partially my fault of seeding it kind of late plus didn't realize my fertilizer company put down pre-emergent early that month. I read that just allowing the summer heat to take out the PRG and letting the bermuda take back over. What is the pro and cons of this concept?


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## Ware

Kizzle65 said:


> ...I read that just allowing the summer heat to take out the PRG and letting the bermuda take back over. What is the pro and cons of this concept?


Ryegrass can be allelopathic. Here is some relevant discussion/links to articles:



Ware said:


> There are several herbicides that will take out the PRG.
> 
> And there are some specific reasons for using a transitioning herbicide in the spring...
> 
> Removing overseeded ryegrass from bermudagrass
> 
> Removing Overseeded Perennial Ryegrass from Bermudagrass Turf





thegrassfactor said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> I could be mistaken, but I also think @thegrassfactor (or someone here) has discussed some adverse physiological reactions that occur when PRG is left to die out on its own.
> 
> 
> 
> https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/handle/10355/10261
> 
> http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/45/12/1872.full
> 
> As the PRGs become more and more genetically enhanced, they're especially developing potential to compete with bermuda even in adverse conditions.
> 
> Here is also anecdotal evidence of ryegrass transition disaster if not sprayed out. This is a customer that did not want to pay for ryegrass removal this year anticipating the heat would burn it out. I initially started to argue, but I told them we would do it their way as a science experiment. They are _*devastated *_by the condition of their lawn.
Click to expand...


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## stogie1020

Is there a particular soil temp we are looking for to kill off the rye? I am seeing some green and new growth appearing in the small area of common I did not overseed.


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## stogie1020

Ok, found this, although it doesn't offer a simple solution or calendar:

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/course-care/2011/04/kill-the-rye-or-the-bermuda-will-die-2147496951.html

What I am gathering is that green up occurs long before active growth, so no need to kill the rye just yet, usga suggests waiting till mid May for my area (Phoenix) to get the rye gone by early June.


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## Ware

Yeah @stogie1020 it really depends on how you want the transition to look. I like to scalp and dethatch my bermuda in the spring, so I kill mine out earlier. In other words, I'm not too concerned about a seamless transition.


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## PokeGrande

Ware said:


> Yeah @stogie1020 it really depends on how you want the transition to look. I like to scalp and dethatch my bermuda in the spring, so I kill mine out earlier. In other words, I'm not too concerned about a seamless transition.


The Dodgers AA affiliate, Tulsa Drillers, play their home games at Drillers Stadium/OneOk Field in downtown Tulsa. Out my office window (when not in a "plague") I can see the field and I have never noticed it when it is not green (it's bermuda overseeded with PRG). So they probably kill the PRG but not until mid-May at least based upon what @stogie1020 notes above?

I care about a seamless transition, or least would prefer one, as my main objective now with overseeding PRG is how it looks in mid-March through May in my climate. It seems I should not just scalp it at the end of the may and let the bermuda take over but I still need to kill it.


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## stogie1020

Ware said:


> Yeah @stogie1020 it really depends on how you want the transition to look. I like to scalp and dethatch my bermuda in the spring, so I kill mine out earlier. In other words, I'm not too concerned about a seamless transition.


I like the idea of being able to dethach before the Bermuda starts really growing, but with a three year old and being stuck at home for the next month, the MSM will wait until I don't desperately need a lawn to keep the kid busy.


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## Hapa512

I'm so tired of this heat and can't wait until the summer is over ! I just placed my order for 50lbs of Champion GQ PRG...LOL

I hope everyone is staying cool !


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## Brou

These winter lawns look great.

I'm curious, when overseeing with PRG do you all just lay it down with a broadcast spreader, fertilize, water, and it takes off? Or is there other prep required before seeding?

When do you typically overseed?

Also, what do you all do regarding pre-emergent to keep winter weeds at bay?

Lastly, do you just glyphosate it before the Bermuda comes out of dormancy or is there some other way to get rid of it?


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## Ware

Kamauxx said:


> These winter lawns look great.
> 
> I'm curious, when overseeing with PRG do you all just lay it down with a broadcast spreader, fertilize, water, and it takes off? Or is there other prep required before seeding?
> 
> When do you typically overseed?
> 
> Also, what do you all do regarding pre-emergent to keep winter weeds at bay?
> 
> Lastly, do you just glyphosate it before the Bermuda comes out of dormancy or is there some other way to get rid of it?


My answers to these questions are in this post:

 Ware's Winter Overseeding Project | 2017-18


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## Brou

Ware said:


> Kamauxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> These winter lawns look great.
> 
> I'm curious, when overseeing with PRG do you all just lay it down with a broadcast spreader, fertilize, water, and it takes off? Or is there other prep required before seeding?
> 
> When do you typically overseed?
> 
> Also, what do you all do regarding pre-emergent to keep winter weeds at bay?
> 
> Lastly, do you just glyphosate it before the Bermuda comes out of dormancy or is there some other way to get rid of it?
> 
> 
> 
> My answers to these questions are in this post:
> 
> Ware's Winter Overseeding Project | 2017-18
Click to expand...

Perfect! Thanks. :thumbup:


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## CarolinaCuttin

@Kamauxx If you need a hack to transition, 0.3 oz of 41% glyphosate per thousand. Grow up your ryegrass before you spray and it will turn it into fertilizer quickly.


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## Wfrobinette

Hapa512 said:


> I'm so tired of this heat and can't wait until the summer is over ! I just placed my order for 50lbs of Champion GQ PRG...LOL
> 
> I hope everyone is staying cool !


I'm trying clubhouse this year.(Did the TT annual rye last year)

My reasons.

1. Clubhouse states that it is less heat tolerant than most. Champion touts heat tolerance.
2. I want to try what others here have not written much about.

I'll keep my journal updated.


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## The_iHenry

I'm thinking of over seeding a portion of my backyard with bent grass but I haven't done enough research


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## CarolinaCuttin

The_iHenry said:


> I'm thinking of over seeding a portion of my backyard with bent grass but I haven't done enough research


What height are you maintaining your bermuda at right now? Bent grass is so tiny that you don't need to do any cultivation of the bermuda to overseed, it will fall right through the canopy no problem. I would consider a heavy dose of Primo 3 days before overseeing to give the bent grass time to come up and get established. You definitely want to chemically transition in the spring. I think it can definitely be done, but it isn't as easy as PRG.


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## The_iHenry

CarolinaCuttin said:


> The_iHenry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking of over seeding a portion of my backyard with bent grass but I haven't done enough research
> 
> 
> 
> What height are you maintaining your bermuda at right now? Bent grass is so tiny that you don't need to do any cultivation of the bermuda to overseed, it will fall right through the canopy no problem. I would consider a heavy dose of Primo 3 days before overseeing to give the bent grass time to come up and get established. You definitely want to chemically transition in the spring. I think it can definitely be done, but it isn't as easy as PRG.
Click to expand...

I have 2 greens mowers so I'm currently mowing at 2 different heights. 1/2" and 1/4". I plan on doing the same over the winter with the PRG and bent. Maybe take the PRG up to 3/4".


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## CarolinaCuttin

@The_iHenry I would think seeding into the 1/4" section would be ideal. Heavy dose of PGR and the bermuda won't start growing again for 3 weeks or so, this gives the bent time to get going. You will maintain a mixed stand until the first frost then the bent should take over and replace the whole canopy. With PGR you should be able to go right back to mowing at 1/4" after seeding and maintain all through winter and spring. 0.250" bentgrass is absolutely awesome. I wouldn't use the newer bents for this height, good old Penncross is perfect for this (and cheap) even as low as 0.125". If you decide to do this please take pictures before, during, and after!


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## The_iHenry

@CarolinaCuttin oh I will, I'll keep you updated. Unless plans change this is definitely happening. Main reason why I bought another greens mower.


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## PokeGrande

Since I was already ordering seed from Hogan for my TTTF (Hogan Blend) overseed, I decided to also order PhD Blend from them for my PRG overseed this year.


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## Wfrobinette

PokeGrande said:


> Since I was already ordering seed from Hogan for my TTTF (Hogan Blend) overseed, I decided to also order PhD Blend from them for my PRG overseed this year.


Have you done the phd blend before? Can you compare it to Champion GQ or another PRG as well?


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## Hapa512

Wfrobinette said:


> Hapa512 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm so tired of this heat and can't wait until the summer is over ! I just placed my order for 50lbs of Champion GQ PRG...LOL
> 
> I hope everyone is staying cool !
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying clubhouse this year.(Did the TT annual rye last year)
> 
> My reasons.
> 
> 1. Clubhouse states that it is less heat tolerant than most. Champion touts heat tolerance.
> 2. I want to try what others here have not written much about.
> 
> I'll keep my journal updated.
Click to expand...

That's cool, let us know how it goes. This something that I plan on doing every year. I have my 65lbs of grass seed stored in my bedroom....lol Wife's not to happy, but I want to keep cool until the time comes to seed...LOL

I'll be curious to see what your results are like?


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## Wfrobinette

Hapa512 said:


> Wfrobinette said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hapa512 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm so tired of this heat and can't wait until the summer is over ! I just placed my order for 50lbs of Champion GQ PRG...LOL
> 
> I hope everyone is staying cool !
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying clubhouse this year.(Did the TT annual rye last year)
> 
> My reasons.
> 
> 1. Clubhouse states that it is less heat tolerant than most. Champion touts heat tolerance.
> 2. I want to try what others here have not written much about.
> 
> I'll keep my journal updated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's cool, let us know how it goes. This something that I plan on doing every year. I have my 65lbs of grass seed stored in my bedroom....lol Wife's not to happy, but I want to keep cool until the time comes to seed...LOL
> 
> I'll be curious to see what your results are like?
Click to expand...

Will do. I would not worry about the seed out in the garage. Most distributors are not storing it in climate controlled facilities.


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## PokeGrande

Wfrobinette said:


> PokeGrande said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since I was already ordering seed from Hogan for my TTTF (Hogan Blend) overseed, I decided to also order PhD Blend from them for my PRG overseed this year.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you done the phd blend before? Can you compare it to Champion GQ or another PRG as well?
Click to expand...

No, I have not. This will be my third year to overseed with PRG. Two years ago I overseeded with Secretariat II, which I got from a local sod store. I just assumed they would have again the next year and found out just a few days from seed down they decided to go with an annual rye. So ended up using a PRG from Site One, which I didn't like as well as the Secretariat. Eager to see how the PhD does.


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## anthonybilotta

Is there any effect of MSM on dormant bermuda/bermuda that is just starting to green up in the spring? I want to take the plunge and overseed this year, but I want to be able to kill the rye grass in February to allow for greenup of my bermuda in march.

I definitely do not want the MSM to affect greenup


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## Thor865

anthonybilotta said:


> Is there any effect of MSM on dormant bermuda/bermuda that is just starting to green up in the spring? I want to take the plunge and overseed this year, but I want to be able to kill the rye grass in February to allow for greenup of my bermuda in march.
> 
> I definitely do not want the MSM to affect greenup


overseeding in general will affect green up/transition. for example I was 100% green in early April on backyard that wasn't overseed, and the part that I did overseed was delayed 4-6 weeks for 100%


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## kevinwang1219

I am looking to scalp my bermuda lawn in my back yard (roughly 1400 sq ft) and then leveling it with sand. After, I want to seed with PRG but isnce it is already October, is this ideal? I have a lot of bumpy spots in my lawn and I want bermuda to grow back in the spring/summer instead of PRG.

Is this doable? I believe I live in the transition zone (Southern California).


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## Redtwin

@kevinwang1219, I would not do the sand level this late in the season. The scalp and overseed would work just fine but I don't know that I would want the bermuda buried that deep all winter long while dormant. Save the sand level for the spring when you spray out the PRG and the bermuda has started growing again.


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## kevinwang1219

Redtwin said:


> @kevinwang1219, I would not do the sand level this late in the season. The scalp and overseed would work just fine but I don't know that I would want the bermuda buried that deep all winter long while dormant. Save the sand level for the spring when you spray out the PRG and the bermuda has started growing again.


Thank you for the advice. since my lawn is bumpy i should just scalp, aerate and seed and wait to level next year?


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## Redtwin

I'm not a seeding expert but I don't see any reason to aerate unless you have some serious compaction issues. I would scalp, apply PGR if you have any (otherwise skip), then overseed. Hit it with a light dose of 1-1-1 ratio fertilizer and keep the soil moist but not soaked until you have germination. 
In the spring once you start seeing some green from the Bermuda, hit it with some MSM to kill the rye. Give it a week or two, then scalp to dirt and level it. Apply more 1-1-1 and water normally for your area.


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## kevinwang1219

Redtwin said:


> I'm not a seeding expert but I don't see any reason to aerate unless you have some serious compaction issues. I would scalp, apply PGR if you have any (otherwise skip), then overseed. Hit it with a light dose of 1-1-1 ratio fertilizer and keep the soil moist but not soaked until you have germination.
> In the spring once you start seeing some green from the Bermuda, hit it with some MSM to kill the rye. Give it a week or two, then scalp to dirt and level it. Apply more 1-1-1 and water normally for your area.


Thanks again. I don't really know how to judge if my lawn has compaction issues but I give my backyard a good scalp and seed before doing my front yard. Hopefully it will go well haha


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