# 2021 Bermuda to PRG overseed



## Thor865

I figured I would start this thread early this year due to the ongoing shortage of seed harvest this past year.

This thread is meant to educate and encourage those who have never done PRG overseed on their Bermuda, to make It their first year in doing so.

The 2020 thread went very well and hope we can all learn from our success's and failures and make this year as good as we can. link-https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=233612

Preparation: buy seed, set timeline:

- As I stated in the beginning, seed is in short supply so get it while you can. Utilize your local sources (Ewing, Siteone, etc..) to save on shipping costs
- Timeline will be different for all depending on location but me personally, I wait till its consistent low 80's for high, 60's for low for my seed down window. I also ensure that rain is minimal in the extended forecast so that I control the irrigation and prevent washout.

Execution: 
- PGR is necessity to slow Bermuda down while your waiting for germination and establishment so start there
- scalp/verticut are both equally important to thin the dense Bermuda turf out to ensure the best seed to soil contact
- get your seed down. seeding rate is dependent on you and how much you want to buy. I personally have always been in the 15-20lb/1k seed rate as this is what has given me the desired density and look for winter. I have also seen success with as low as 10lb/1k. Main thing is to put down half your desired seed rate then the other half around week 2 so you know where you need to focus touch ups
- Fert is up to you based on soil tests
- If you have irrigation run light 5-10 minute cycles (depending on your head) 3-5 times a day to ensure seed stays moist
- Germination is usually in the 7-14 day window, I've had it as early as 4 days before as well so stay patient ryegrass is easy and will germinate under the worst of conditions. 
- first mow is debatable as some will tell you to "be easy", "manual reel first couple mows", blah blah bull crap. My first mow is always when its around 2-2.5" which is usually around day 10/11 after seeding. I go straight with the gm1600 and never any issues

Conclusion: 
- The most important process here in my opinion is preparing the turf. Ive seen many a failure or "spottiness" in germination due to skipping verticut/scalp to thin out the Bermuda.

All I got for now, lets all enjoy this winter with some sick stripes

P.S. YES you have to spray out the PRG in the spring, we will talk about that later.


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## Amoo316

Following, plan to overseed the Bahia at the clinic this year with PRG for the cow and goat. Ty for the mini-tutorial


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## cavince79

Doing the backyard again. The Bermuda fill in hasn't gotten where I need it, and with the dog, I'm probably going to end up overseeding every fall now. &#128580;
I purchased from Hancock last year, but am going with Tractor Supply this year for about half the cost.


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## Mewwwda

Been waiting on this year's thread to pop up. I'm thinking about trying an over seed for the first time. My question is about pre-emergent. I'm looking at putting down my pre-e first week or 2 in September, would I need to wait on spraying until after the PRG is coming up or do you just not worry about pre-e when doing an overseed?


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## Thor865

Mewwwda said:


> Been waiting on this year's thread to pop up. I'm thinking about trying an over seed for the first time. My question is about pre-emergent. I'm looking at putting down my pre-e first week or 2 in September, would I need to wait on spraying until after the PRG is coming up or do you just not worry about pre-e when doing an overseed?


No PreM until 60 days after germination or as you said not at all (I skip fall PreM)


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## BigBoxLawn

Purchased some Champion GQ for my first overseed this Fall! Hancock seed had a decent price on it, and their own Hancock variety was having a large sales for anyone interested. Only $10 cheaper then champion though...


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## Herring

BigBoxLawn said:


> Purchased some Champion GQ for my first overseed this Fall! Hancock seed had a decent price on it, and their own Hancock variety was having a large sales for anyone interested. Only $10 cheaper then champion though...




I ordered the Hancock variety, I believe it changes based on availability? This year is Pinstripe II. I can't find a lot of info on it other than on OreGro Seeds website. I planted some in my little desk lawn and it germinated in three days. I'll be using it to go from centipede to rye this winter then rye to Bermuda next summer.


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## BigBoxLawn

How important is verticutting during the overseed process? I don't have availability to one, but im only working with about 1.5k sq ft. What would be my best bet for soil contact?


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## PhxHeat

@BigBoxLawn verticutting can help because it will open up the grass canopy and can scuff up the soil, but it isn't a necessity. Rye is pretty good at rooting if you get the seed down to the soil surface. A hearty raking to open up/expose a lil dirt goes a long way.


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## Kdaves12

My order of 25 lbs Champion GQ PRG is being processed and will soon be on the way!
My backyard trial run last winter was a success, so I'm doing the front as well this time to be promoted to "that neighbor"...


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## sykescc

I plan to overseed the front lawn this fall. This will be my first overseed ever. The seed I have says something like 1% weed seed (I believe). How do I need to handle the inclusion of weed seed in the mix? Do I just wait a couple of weeks for the rye seed to establish, maybe after 2nd mow and then spray the lawn for weeds? I hate to introduce any weeds to the lawn but assume this is just a part of the process when doing an overseed.


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## Kdaves12

sykescc said:


> I plan to overseed the front lawn this fall. This will be my first overseed ever. The seed I have says something like 1% weed seed (I believe). How do I need to handle the inclusion of weed seed in the mix? Do I just wait a couple of weeks for the rye seed to establish, maybe after 2nd mow and then spray the lawn for weeds? I hate to introduce any weeds to the lawn but assume this is just a part of the process when doing an overseed.


As @Thor865 mentioned earlier, wait 60 days until you apply your 1st round of PreEm. As far as the inevitable weeds go, mine never got bad enough to spray; I just hand picked them out.


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## JayGo

🙋🏽 QUESTION:

With regard to seed to soil contact, does it matter that the top "layer" of my front & back lawns is sand?
I went a little heavier with the sand leveling this year than I'd planned to. This was 4th level, so there is quite a bit of sand in my soil profile.

I've never overseeded my lawn before. @Hapa512 almost has me convinced to do it this year.


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## Slim 1938

I purchased some cheap seed from tractor supply. I plan on doing my backyard. We shall see how it goes. &#129310;.


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## PhxHeat

@JayGo the sand shouldn't be an issue.

@Slim 1938 might want to look to see if you got a perennial turf type rye or an annual pasture/field type rye. A perennial turf type is way nicer for a lawn. Annual ryes tend to have a lighter green color, thicker blade, hold a lot of moisture, and are not usually as soft.

Also, the "cheaper" seed tends to have a lower germination rate and higher weed seed/filler content. Both add to cost of needing more per sqft to get the same thickness and extra weeds to deal with. Just things to consider.


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## Slim 1938

@PhxHeat Yes it's perennial ryegrass for turf. The reviews I found on it were good and the best part was the free shipping.


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## adidasUNT8

I'm thinking about doing overseeding with PRG this fall as well. Curious on what the best options are for seed. Am I just looking for the most expensive one for awesome striping lol. Also, are you putting peat moss on top of seeds or just making sure to keep them wet? How low can you cut? I'm using a JD 220e.


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## Amoo316

Slim 1938 said:


> I purchased some cheap seed from tractor supply. I plan on doing my backyard. We shall see how it goes. 🤞.


By chance mind sharing what you paid and for how much at Tractor Supply? I need to overseed the pasture at work and need something cheap for half an acre. Not looking for lawn quality, just need pasture quality.


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## cavince79

@Amoo316 
I ordered 25lb of PRG for $40+tax from Tractor Supply. I think I paid twice that at Hancock See last year.


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## Slim 1938

Well I messed up. The seed I found at tractor supply is perennial and shipping was about 20 bucks or pick it up at store with no shipping fee. My tight *** found the same one on home depot online with free shipping to home for same price so I pulled trigger. Well I read closer today and the home depot is ANNUAL. Well crap. Send it back or do annual? 
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/mayberry-turf-type-perennial-ryegrass-25-lb-1310992?cm_mmc=feed-_-GoogleShopping-_-Product-_-1310992&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvO2IBhCzARIsALw3ASpWb_M5s2u6x2fuMuQMYKQ3h9wjYch34320kJ4KXhOpeOsuHQjCRioaAmamEALw_wcB
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Mayberry-25-lbs-Lawn-Grass-Seed-Ryegrass-96161/304813279


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## TheGBKid

Holy moly. I started to price out this project for the first time and with 16k of turf at 20lb rate, that's 300lb of seed (or more) at $100/50lb bag = $600. Please let me know if I have the application rate correct because this quickly becomes cost prohibitive to keep the dogs from tracking in the fine remains of Bermuda over the winter. My wife and I can just vacuum more.....


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## Lawndry List

Slim 1938 said:


> Well I messed up. The seed I found at tractor supply is perennial and shipping was about 20 bucks or pick it up at store with no shipping fee. My tight @ss found the same one on home depot online with free shipping to home for same price so I pulled trigger. Well I read closer today and the home depot is ANNUAL. Well crap. Send it back or do annual?
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/mayberry-turf-type-perennial-ryegrass-25-lb-1310992?cm_mmc=feed-_-GoogleShopping-_-Product-_-1310992&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvO2IBhCzARIsALw3ASpWb_M5s2u6x2fuMuQMYKQ3h9wjYch34320kJ4KXhOpeOsuHQjCRioaAmamEALw_wcB
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Mayberry-25-lbs-Lawn-Grass-Seed-Ryegrass-96161/304813279


I did Champion GQ on my front lawn last year & was not planning on overseeding my backyard. The Champion GQ looked so good, I thought I'd try something cheap for my backyard & I did the annual ryegrass from Tractor Supply 50 lb bag & it worked great. Sorry I know we are talking PRG, but this is a good cheap option for a backyard overseed

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/dlf-gulf-arg-50-lb?cm_vc=-10005


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## Mewwwda

TheGBKid said:


> Holy moly. I started to price out this project for the first time and with 16k of turf at 20lb rate, that's 300lb of seed (or more) at $100/50lb bag = $600. Please let me know if I have the application rate correct because this quickly becomes cost prohibitive to keep the dogs from tracking in the fine remains of Bermuda over the winter. My wife and I can just vacuum more.....


@TheGBKid I had been thinking of doing an over seed this time around as well. Like you, I QUICKLY came to the realization that I won't be due to the cost. Especially the Champion... I have 17k total and haven't actually added it up, but it's too high for me 😒


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## MasterMech

TheGBKid said:


> Holy moly. I started to price out this project for the first time and with 16k of turf at 20lb rate, that's 300lb of seed (or more) at $100/50lb bag = $600. Please let me know if I have the application rate correct because this quickly becomes cost prohibitive to keep the dogs from tracking in the fine remains of Bermuda over the winter. My wife and I can just vacuum more.....


Tell me about it. My wife REALLY wants to go ahead on this. I struggle to drop $600 in materials (4 bags of PRG and a couple bags of starter fert), then watch the dog spots crop up all winter and not really be able to do much about it. Only to nuke it all in the spring. It does really help with tracking in the Bermuda, and I do enjoy aiming the stripes right for my neighbor's front door. :lol:

And I usually go light, 10lbs/1k and one app of fert. I really think 15+ and a second round of fert late fall would help it look it's best.


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## Getting Fat

noob question,

Can you use a regular spreader to spread the seed or should I rent a drop spreader?


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## MasterMech

Getting Fat said:


> noob question,
> 
> Can you use a regular spreader to spread the seed or should I rent a drop spreader?


I broadcast all the time through the Lesco.


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## Slim 1938

I'm not really worried about it being perfect being as I have two dogs and two kids who love being in the backyard. My goal is to track less dead bermuda in and have ground cover come spring and not big dirt spots. The shipping is where it makes it hard to pull trigger.


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## TheGBKid

MasterMech said:


> TheGBKid said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy moly. I started to price out this project for the first time and with 16k of turf at 20lb rate, that's 300lb of seed (or more) at $100/50lb bag = $600. Please let me know if I have the application rate correct because this quickly becomes cost prohibitive to keep the dogs from tracking in the fine remains of Bermuda over the winter. My wife and I can just vacuum more.....
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me about it. My wife REALLY wants to go ahead on this. I struggle to drop $600 in materials (4 bags of PRG and a couple bags of starter fert), then watch the dog spots crop up all winter and not really be able to do much about it. Only to nuke it all in the spring. It does really help with tracking in the Bermuda, and I do enjoy aiming the stripes right for my neighbor's front door. :lol:
> 
> And I usually go light, 10lbs/1k and one app of fert. I really think 15+ and a second round of fert late fall would help it look it's best.
Click to expand...

I'll have to look into this more. At 10lbs/k, it becomes more reasonable - though still not a necessity by any means. If it adds to the work in the spring to scalp and clean up more, then I'm definitely out. At a certain point, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.


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## PhxHeat

Last year my front was imo my best prg ever. Mostly because I started the season with an older McLane and then I acquired my Jacobsen greens mower and switched to it at the end of Dec.

The rate worked out to be about 15-1/2 lbs per 1k sqft. It was a little thin at first, then each blade/stalk had a bunch of tillers (leafs) shoot off the initial main stem. It just got better and better and lush. 5/16" - 3/8" was amazing. For me having ultra basic common bermuda, last years prg seemed like I had my my own world class greens at Augusta or Pebble Beach.


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## PhxHeat

here's a pic I posted of it. post says I had the mower about a 1/4"-ish.

Can't wait for another Az "winter" rye (prg) season.


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## MasterMech

TheGBKid said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGBKid said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy moly. I started to price out this project for the first time and with 16k of turf at 20lb rate, that's 300lb of seed (or more) at $100/50lb bag = $600. Please let me know if I have the application rate correct because this quickly becomes cost prohibitive to keep the dogs from tracking in the fine remains of Bermuda over the winter. My wife and I can just vacuum more.....
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me about it. My wife REALLY wants to go ahead on this. I struggle to drop $600 in materials (4 bags of PRG and a couple bags of starter fert), then watch the dog spots crop up all winter and not really be able to do much about it. Only to nuke it all in the spring. It does really help with tracking in the Bermuda, and I do enjoy aiming the stripes right for my neighbor's front door. :lol:
> 
> And I usually go light, 10lbs/1k and one app of fert. I really think 15+ and a second round of fert late fall would help it look it's best.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'll have to look into this more. At 10lbs/k, it becomes more reasonable - though still not a necessity by any means. If it adds to the work in the spring to scalp and clean up more, then I'm definitely out. At a certain point, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.
Click to expand...

The only "extra" work is timing the spray in the spring when it's time to smoke it. I usually go with MSM or Negate. Negate is about $60/acre but it's hell on the Poa Annua that inevitably pops up. I let it linger way too long this year and my Celsius/Certainty app finally killed it off after Memorial Day.


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## Thor865

Seed arrived. Excellent varieties this year


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## FlaDave

I will be joining in on the PRG fun also but with a twist. Killing off my common Bermuda and planning to go with zoysia in the spring. I was able to find 25lbs of Mayberry brand PRG at home depot for $60. It's only going to be about 5lbs/m but that's what the bag recommends so hopefully it works out.


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## vallecrucis

I have a small area in my backyard I would like to try (for fun) but the area gets very little sunlight in the cooler months. I assume that would be a problem? How much sunlight is needed for this to go well?


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## adidasUNT8

Thor865 said:


> Seed arrived. Excellent varieties this year


Mine will be here tomorrow most likely. Same varieties. Glad to hear they are good


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## wiseowl

My body is ready for October overseed!!! My local branches don't have their seed yet.

This year I need to buy a push reel once it gets up to about an inch. Last year I waited to mow at about 1.5-2" and set my GM1000 as high as she'd go and it demolished the hardwork because of the weight and more than 1/3rd rule. Luckily TIF419 stays green year round here anyway, just a lighter shade.


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## adidasUNT8

wiseowl said:


> My body is ready for October overseed!!! My local branches don't have their seed yet.
> 
> This year I need to buy a push reel once it gets up to about an inch. Last year I waited to mow at about 1.5-2" and set my GM1000 as high as she'd go and it demolished the hardwork because of the weight and more than 1/3rd rule. Luckily TIF419 stays green year round here anyway, just a lighter shade.


dang I was reading from multiple people saying powered reel to start wouldn't be an issue. Hmmm


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## Jacobpaschall

Just spoke with my local Ewing. They said the price has nearly doubled this year. $125/50# bag. I need 6 bags &#129327;


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## wiseowl

adidasUNT8 said:


> wiseowl said:
> 
> 
> 
> My body is ready for October overseed!!! My local branches don't have their seed yet.
> 
> This year I need to buy a push reel once it gets up to about an inch. Last year I waited to mow at about 1.5-2" and set my GM1000 as high as she'd go and it demolished the hardwork because of the weight and more than 1/3rd rule. Luckily TIF419 stays green year round here anyway, just a lighter shade.
> 
> 
> 
> dang I was reading from multiple people saying powered reel to start wouldn't be an issue. Hmmm
Click to expand...

Looks like my local branch updated tonight!


Probably isn't an issue @adidasUNT8 but two problems. 1. I seeded 11/1 instead of 10/1 which led to problem 2. Rain. I waited too long to start mowing because of the new growth and rain and the GM only goes to about 1.15" max, plus I have a tourney blade which makes it worse. Since it was all new seedlings I took over 50% off and stressed it to literal death.

This year though I'm putting all 50lbs down on 2500sq feet. I'm going to use the seed to level the lawn 😂😂😂😂 manual reel once it gets to 1", maintain for a few weeks then look at getting it down to .400's and see how it does with PGR.


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## BigBoxLawn

How important is the verticut step? Ill only be doing the 1k sq ft in my front. I plan to do a full scalp and PGR, but dont have access to a verticutter unless I rent. And that seems a bit silly for <1k


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## adidasUNT8

wiseowl said:


> adidasUNT8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wiseowl said:
> 
> 
> 
> My body is ready for October overseed!!! My local branches don't have their seed yet.
> 
> This year I need to buy a push reel once it gets up to about an inch. Last year I waited to mow at about 1.5-2" and set my GM1000 as high as she'd go and it demolished the hardwork because of the weight and more than 1/3rd rule. Luckily TIF419 stays green year round here anyway, just a lighter shade.
> 
> 
> 
> dang I was reading from multiple people saying powered reel to start wouldn't be an issue. Hmmm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looks like my local branch updated tonight!
> 
> 
> Probably isn't an issue @adidasUNT8 but two problems. 1. I seeded 11/1 instead of 10/1 which led to problem 2. Rain. I waited too long to start mowing because of the new growth and rain and the GM only goes to about 1.15" max, plus I have a tourney blade which makes it worse. Since it was all new seedlings I took over 50% off and stressed it to literal death.
> 
> This year though I'm putting all 50lbs down on 2500sq feet. I'm going to use the seed to level the lawn 😂😂😂😂 manual reel once it gets to 1", maintain for a few weeks then look at getting it down to .400's and see how it does with PGR.
Click to expand...

Eeek. Well atleast you found out what the problems were :lol: A neighbor down the street has been overseeding the last few years and he puts down 10lbs/1k and it looked ok from the picture he sent. He was cutting it longer ~2.5-3" I'd say. He said he would be cautionary about putting down too much and choking it out. I picked up 60lbs for 4k. hoping that'll be enough.


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## PhxHeat

BigBoxLawn said:


> How important is the verticut step? Ill only be doing the 1k sq ft in my front. I plan to do a full scalp and PGR, but dont have access to a verticutter unless I rent. And that seems a bit silly for <1k


●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●●


BigBoxLawn said:


> How important is verticutting during the overseed process? I don't have availability to one, but im only working with about 1.5k sq ft. What would be my best bet for soil contact?





PhxHeat said:


> @BigBoxLawn verticutting can help because it will open up the grass canopy and can scuff up the soil, but *it isn't a necessity*. Rye is pretty good at rooting if you get the seed down to the soil surface. A hearty raking to open up/expose a lil dirt goes a long way.


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## wiseowl

Looks like the two bags my local ewing branch have are last years seed with an expiration of 10/31. Does seed actually expire?


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## rothnic

I am planning to do this as well. I was looking at the champion gc, but my ~9k sq ft lawn would require at least two bags, which comes out at $300 shipped from hancock. This feels a little more than i want to spend for my first try at this, so I ended up ordering 100lbs of the Mayberry turf type prg seed from tractor supply co, which included free shipping to store. This came out to $160 after tax.

I was tempted a bit to try one of the turf type annual ryegrass varieties, which would be even cheaper, but I couldn't find a good enough comparison to go by. For example: https://hancockseed.com/collections/ryegrass-seed/products/nusprint-turf-type-annual-ryegrass


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## Slim 1938

@rothnic I thought I was purchasing the same seed you bought but from home depot but I actually bought annual rye in the mayberry brand. I'm gonna put it down and see how it goes.


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## Amoo316

What are some of my spray out options going to look like come spring if I'm overseeding PRG into Bahia? I know MSM Turf would definitely be off the table.


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## robbybobby

Get your money back and try it out.



wiseowl said:


> Looks like the two bags my local ewing branch have are last years seed with an expiration of 10/31. Does seed actually expire?


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## MrTophatJones

I think I want to try a small overseed this fall (~500sqft). Am I going to have a bad time if I use a bag of Pennington annual ryegrass from the big box store, or will it look nice at 1/2-3/4"? I don't care if it is super premium, just want a little pop of color in the winter months.

What are options for spraying it out near ornamental trees in the spring? I have a Japanese Maple that almost certainly has roots under my yard so I think that rules out MSM Turf.


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## Redtwin

@MrTophatJones I would not use Annual Rye as the color is not great and it makes a HUGE mess on your mower even if it's mowed dry. As far as spray out options, I believe others have used Certainty to spray it out. It's a bit pricier than MSM but safer around your trees. The Certainty label has some pretty decent instructions specific for spraying out PRG.

https://www.domyown.com/msds/certainty_label1.pdf
Look at Section 8.7


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## cavince79

I used Celcius to kill off my PRG this year as I had it in hand. It was the typical Celcius slow kill, which was my goal to allow a smooth transition to Bermuda.


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## DFW245

cavince79 said:


> I used Celcius to kill off my PRG this year as I had it in hand. It was the typical Celcius slow kill, which was my goal to allow a smooth transition to Bermuda.


Celsius gets rid of PRG? Man, if so, consider me hopping on board the PRG train. I've got some Celsius sitting around here


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## cavince79

DFW245 said:


> cavince79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used Celcius to kill off my PRG this year as I had it in hand. It was the typical Celcius slow kill, which was my goal to allow a smooth transition to Bermuda.
> 
> 
> 
> Celsius gets rid of PRG? Man, if so, consider me hopping on board the PRG train. I've got some Celsius sitting around here
Click to expand...

I saw a few posts here and elsewhere that indicated that while Celcius is not labelled to do such, and that there are cheaper alternatives, it should work.
In my case, I had plenty of Celcius on hand, no MSM, and I had plenty of other weeds I didn't mind hitting at the same time.
It worked for me. :thumbup:


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## BigBoxLawn

Seeing the results of GCI turf Petes overseed gets me a bit worried. What went so drastically wrong for him?


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## Amoo316

BigBoxLawn said:


> Seeing the results of GCI turf Petes overseed gets me a bit worried. What went so drastically wrong for him?


He waited WAY too long to spray it out.


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## BU Bear

Amoo316 said:


> BigBoxLawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing the results of GCI turf Petes overseed gets me a bit worried. What went so drastically wrong for him?
> 
> 
> 
> He waited WAY too long to spray it out.
Click to expand...

Waited way too long to spray out AND over seeded on newly established bermuda. If I recall it wasn't even a full growing season before he over seeded it. I noticed a slightly slower green up this year (first year overseeding), but honestly I think that was due to a cooler spring more than the PRG. Spray out around when the bermuda is greening up and you get a nice transition that doesn't hinder your bermuda too much.


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## BigBoxLawn

Good to hear. I noticed my local golf courses here in Charlotte have already overseeded some tee boxes. Seems early to me. We've hit 95 the last couple days.


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## BU Bear

Does anybody use PGR on their over seeded PRG (boy that's not confusing at all). I know TNEX has label rates for PRG and paclo has rates for over seeded bermuda, but I was too worried to do it last year. If you do it, how early do you start after germination?


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## DFW245

cavince79 said:


> DFW245 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cavince79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used Celcius to kill off my PRG this year as I had it in hand. It was the typical Celcius slow kill, which was my goal to allow a smooth transition to Bermuda.
> 
> 
> 
> Celsius gets rid of PRG? Man, if so, consider me hopping on board the PRG train. I've got some Celsius sitting around here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw a few posts here and elsewhere that indicated that while Celcius is not labelled to do such, and that there are cheaper alternatives, it should work.
> In my case, I had plenty of Celcius on hand, no MSM, and I had plenty of other weeds I didn't mind hitting at the same time.
> It worked for me. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Perfect. That sounds great. Thanks!


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## Jacobpaschall

Got my seed early this year. Everyone says it will be hard to get around here and the price will be sky high. So I found someone local that had last year stock and charged me a really high price instead of a sky high price!!


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## Thor865

BU Bear said:


> Does anybody use PGR on their over seeded PRG (boy that's not confusing at all). I know TNEX has label rates for PRG and paclo has rates for over seeded bermuda, but I was too worried to do it last year. If you do it, how early do you start after germination?


Never used it on the rye but nothing wrong in doing so if you feel you need it


----------



## atlvolfan06

Ready to go, I'm thinking 9/18 in Atlanta.


----------



## Skibrett3211

@atlvolfan06 your shooting for 9/18, is that strictly based on temperature? My guys is supposed to get me my seed this week. Trying to get my plan in place as well. What all are you doing (adjusting HOC, slowing down Bermuda with PGR, etc). Look forward to following another couple of Atlanta guys through your progress.


----------



## atlvolfan06

@Skibrett3211 mainly just on historical temps, but will certainly be keeping an eye on the tropics to make sure we don't have any washouts for 7-10 days. I scarified and scalped at the beginning of August to thin the herd a bit, have been using PGR on the Bermuda since May and will continue PGR until the PRG has germinated. HOC has been 0.6", but planning to let it grow to 1" and scalp back to 0.6" at overseed and then maintain PRG at 1" through winter. Debating whether to scarify again or aerate and topdress - with all the rain we have had this year, my soil is very compacted. For my 1ksf yard, planning on using 15lb for the first go, and will save 5lb back to address thinner areas 10-14 days later. This will be my first go at the entire yard, a few years back I overseeded with Pennington Fairway Supreme in an area close to the house that gets more traffic during the winter - honestly was the nicest turf I've ever had. Only mistake I made was not spraying it out in Spring and experienced a severe decline in my Bermuda that I'm still working to get back. Will definitely be spraying it out mid-late February to avoid that this time.


----------



## ShadowGuy

Dethatched about 1000sqft with a thatch rake and scalped down to 1.25( lowest on rotary). Thinking about hitting it with PGR next weekend then cutting it again the following week right before seed down

This yard is 30% SA, 60% Kikuyu, and 10% PRG and other.

Will waiting a week to apply PGR be worth it or should I just move up the seed down date?.


----------



## BU Bear

So I was going to do champion gq in the front and save a bit of money in the back with Pennington from Lowe's/HD where the rye is more for ground cover so the dogs don't make a mess. But when I went online neither Lowe's or HD showed any near me and neither store knew when/if they would get any in stock. Closest store with it was 60 miles, so looks like the back is getting the good stuff too. This hobby (obsession?) hurts my wallet :bd:


----------



## cyrjm

I have had a lot of erosion after my July scalp/aerate/sanding and the sand has gotten thick at the bottom of my slope. Will rye grow in sand or should I bring in some top soil?


----------



## Redtwin

@cyrjm Rye will germinate on the sidewalk if you don't clean it off.


----------



## MasterMech

Redtwin said:


> @cyrjm Rye will germinate on the sidewalk if you don't clean it off.


We used to drive around with it growing from the floor boards of our golf carts (maintenance carts, not play!) and joked that it was our nursery stock. :lol:


----------



## MasterMech

Redtwin said:


> @cyrjm Rye will germinate on the sidewalk if you don't clean it off.


We used to drive around with it growing from the floor boards of our golf carts (maintenance carts, not play!) and joked that it was our nursery stock. :lol:


----------



## Deltahedge

Question for you PRG Overseed veterans.

Do you still mow it twice a week? 
Does it take as much time to maintain as warm season grass in the summer growing months? (Herbicide, Fungicide, Fert, Mow)

I really think PRG looks awesome, but I have a treehouse project to work on this winter, and I could use the time away from mowing for that project.


----------



## Ware

Deltahedge said:


> Question for you PRG Overseed veterans.
> 
> Do you still mow it twice a week?
> Does it take as much time to maintain as warm season grass in the summer growing months? (Herbicide, Fungicide, Fert, Mow)
> 
> I really think PRG looks awesome, but I have a treehouse project to work on this winter, and I could use the time away from mowing for that project.


It is lower maintenance, especially when the temps cool down and the days get shorter.


----------



## cyrjm

Redtwin said:


> @cyrjm Rye will germinate on the sidewalk if you don't clean it off.


lol...good to know, thanks man


----------



## Skibrett3211

Being new to this. Am I correct in that I can still spray to control existing weed problems? Just not able to put pre-m down before PRG overseed.

I have a few areas that sprung up after all the rain we've had.


----------



## Ware

Skibrett3211 said:


> Being new to this. Am I correct in that I can still spray to control existing weed problems? Just not able to put pre-m down before PRG overseed.
> 
> I have a few areas that sprung up after all the rain we've had.


It depends. Read the label. Some will have restrictions.

For example, the Celsius label states "allow 14 days or more between broadcast application of Celsius WG Herbicide and overseeding with ryegrass".


----------



## Skibrett3211

Okay! Thanks, I'll look into that before I spray anything. I'm at least 3-4 weeks away from PRG so I'm thinking I'll be good as well, but always good to double check.


----------



## Hapa512

I got lucky this year, I guess Hancock is out of Champion GQ and only had 5 or 10lb bags. I have a few friends that waited too long, do you guys have any other recommendations other than Champion GQ ? Trying to get that same dark color.


----------



## DeepC

I just ordered Clubhouse GQ from SeedRanch. They were out of Champion GQ. I dont know much about seed so I hope that one works too. Its was pretty expensive though at $233 for 3/25lb bags. 75lbs over 6000sqft back yard.


----------



## Thor865

Today was scalp verticut and seed. Always crossing my fingers. See ya in a week.


----------



## Slim 1938

&#129310;&#128077;


----------



## robbybobby

Yikes, I guess I got lucky. Ordered 160# on the 27th of August. Order says it was shipped but I haven't received it yet.



Hapa512 said:


> I got lucky this year, I guess Hancock is out of Champion GQ and only had 5 or 10lb bags. I have a few friends that waited too long, do you guys have any other recommendations other than Champion GQ ? Trying to get that same dark color.


----------



## Hapa512

DeepC said:


> I just ordered Clubhouse GQ from Seedbarn. They were out of Champion GQ. I dont know much about seed so I hope that one works too. Its was pretty expensive though at $233 for 3/25lb bags. 75lbs over 6000sqft back yard.


That's not too bad, I paid about $250.00 for 75lbs. I tried to get a 300lb bulk discount from Hancock and they said they are not giving any discounts this year. I guess I can see why.


----------



## sykescc

Again, first time doing an overseed project. I put my seed out on 1 September, the temperatures seemed right and that just seemed like a good starting point (beginning of the month). Based on some of what I read I was expecting to see progress in 10-14 days at which point I would put out a second round of seed to fill in thin spots. However, 6 days in and I already have germination all over the seeded area. Do I still need to wait the full 10-14 days before reseeding or can I go ahead and throw some more down early based on the quick germination? Also, should I be worried at all that I may have jumped the gun and put out my initial seeding too early for my area in North Alabama? My decision felt good at the time but just second guessing myself. I assume just newbie uncertainties.


----------



## Thor865

sykescc said:


> Again, first time doing an overseed project. I put my seed out on 1 September, the temperatures seemed right and that just seemed like a good starting point (beginning of the month). Based on some of what I read I was expecting to see progress in 10-14 days at which point I would put out a second round of seed to fill in thin spots. However, 6 days in and I already have germination all over the seeded area. Do I still need to wait the full 10-14 days before reseeding or can I go ahead and throw some more down early based on the quick germination? Also, should I be worried at all that I may have jumped the gun and put out my initial seeding too early for my area in North Alabama? My decision felt good at the time but just second guessing myself. I assume just newbie uncertainties.


You'll be fine as long as you keep it irrigated. I usually wait for day 10-14 for touch ups. Not everything will germinate in 5-6 days.


----------



## M311att

I made the mistake of not spraying out my perennial rye this spring. Will it come back once the temps cool off?


----------



## lanc0227

If I'm looking for a very dark green PRG, what is the best option for that?


----------



## M311att

I found the Ewing Birdie rye to be really dark.

This is Birdie cut at 3/16 and about 2 inches on the fringe.


----------



## Benwag

Almost that time


----------



## itslogz

@Benwag god bless you 🥵


----------



## anthonybilotta

Quick questions for a first timer overseeding:

1: I am at 7/8 of an inch right now. Before overseeding, should I scalp down to the dirt (1/4) or is that too aggressive when it comes to overseeding?

2: Anyone use PGR on their PRG ? Being closer to the coast outside of Houston, our winter time lows are not too low and daily highs are in the 60's. I feel like the PRG will be growing at a decent clip in the winter.

Thanks!


----------



## Cajun71163

I will do about 5K in the backyard. Already put down Pre-emerg and will wait 6-8 weeks before PRG put down. Using Winfield Turf grade at 12 lbs per 1000 divided into two plantings. Live in DFW area so late October is target. Learned a lot from mistakes last year. Hope this year is stellar. HOC is .5" but closer to 3/8".


----------



## Slim 1938

@Cajun71163 I hope you mean you put pre-e on your front lawn. If you did your back and plan on seeding it, you won't get any germination.


----------



## MasterMech

Well boys, I think I'm out this year. IF I can get seed locally, it's likely to be at $170+/50lbs (Was <$90 last year) and I was wanting 300lbs to do my whole lawn. IF I can find suitable seed locally, I might consider doing just the 5M I've got out front, but if I'm going to mow all winter, I really wanted the benefit of no dead Bermuda in the house.


----------



## Nick2879

MasterMech said:


> Well boys, I think I'm out this year. IF I can get seed locally, it's likely to be at $170+/50lbs (Was <$90 last year) and I was wanting 300lbs to do my whole lawn. IF I can find suitable seed locally, I might consider doing just the 5M I've got out front, but if I'm going to mow all winter, I really wanted the benefit of no dead Bermuda in the house.


My local ewing here in the raleigh area has the birdie blend for $110 a bag ($70 last year. Ouch!) I used it last year in my back yard. Looked good. Not as dark as the champion in my front yard but not really worth the price difference IMO. Good luck


----------



## BigBoxLawn

Nick2879 said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well boys, I think I'm out this year. IF I can get seed locally, it's likely to be at $170+/50lbs (Was <$90 last year) and I was wanting 300lbs to do my whole lawn. IF I can find suitable seed locally, I might consider doing just the 5M I've got out front, but if I'm going to mow all winter, I really wanted the benefit of no dead Bermuda in the house.
> 
> 
> 
> My local ewing here in the raleigh area has the birdie blend for $110 a bag ($70 last year. Ouch!) I used it last year in my back yard. Looked good. Not as dark as the champion in my front yard but not really worth the price difference IMO. Good luck
Click to expand...

When are you planning to throw down here in NC? Looks like we have 3-4 days here in the 90s and it may break after.


----------



## itslogz

BigBoxLawn said:


> Nick2879 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well boys, I think I'm out this year. IF I can get seed locally, it's likely to be at $170+/50lbs (Was <$90 last year) and I was wanting 300lbs to do my whole lawn. IF I can find suitable seed locally, I might consider doing just the 5M I've got out front, but if I'm going to mow all winter, I really wanted the benefit of no dead Bermuda in the house.
> 
> 
> 
> My local ewing here in the raleigh area has the birdie blend for $110 a bag ($70 last year. Ouch!) I used it last year in my back yard. Looked good. Not as dark as the champion in my front yard but not really worth the price difference IMO. Good luck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When are you planning to throw down here in NC? Looks like we have 3-4 days here in the 90s and it may break after.
Click to expand...

Also curious on this. First time prg overseed myself in the raleigh area and I got 200 lbs of birdie blend that I hope I don't screw up


----------



## Nick2879

Well 2 years ago Was my first time. Kept waiting for that "perfect" time. I did it first week of October. Then A week straight of 90s. Lol! No issue. At the time I was using my rotary. Scalped to the bottom setting. Used the scarifier on my sun joe. Dropped the seed at around 12-13lbs/k. Used scotts starter fert with mesotrione. Used peat moss. You can rent a peat moss spreader similar to the landzie from Home Depot. And then just watered it 4 times a day for a few minutes. Came in great. Last year I bought a cal trimmer. And used pgr a few days before. Looked even better! I will start bringing my cut level down this weekend and spray pgr on Sunday night. And scarify this week. Plan to drop the seed on Thursday in my front yard. And do the backyard 2 weeks later. I don't want to take away all play areas for my kids at one time. I feel the nights are cool enough now.


----------



## BigBoxLawn

Nick2879 said:


> Well 2 years ago Was my first time. Kept waiting for that "perfect" time. I did it first week of October. Then A week straight of 90s. Lol! No issue. At the time I was using my rotary. Scalped to the bottom setting. Used the scarifier on my sun joe. Dropped the seed at around 12-13lbs/k. Used scotts starter fert with mesotrione. Used peat moss. You can rent a peat moss spreader similar to the landzie from Home Depot. And then just watered it 4 times a day for a few minutes. Came in great. Last year I bought a cal trimmer. And used pgr a few days before. Looked even better! I will start bringing my cut level down this weekend and spray pgr on Sunday night. And scarify this week. Plan to drop the seed on Thursday in my front yard. And do the backyard 2 weeks later. I don't want to take away all play areas for my kids at one time. I feel the nights are cool enough now.


Am i wrong in that mesotrione shouldn't be used on bermuda?


----------



## Nick2879

BigBoxLawn said:



> Nick2879 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well 2 years ago Was my first time. Kept waiting for that "perfect" time. I did it first week of October. Then A week straight of 90s. Lol! No issue. At the time I was using my rotary. Scalped to the bottom setting. Used the scarifier on my sun joe. Dropped the seed at around 12-13lbs/k. Used scotts starter fert with mesotrione. Used peat moss. You can rent a peat moss spreader similar to the landzie from Home Depot. And then just watered it 4 times a day for a few minutes. Came in great. Last year I bought a cal trimmer. And used pgr a few days before. Looked even better! I will start bringing my cut level down this weekend and spray pgr on Sunday night. And scarify this week. Plan to drop the seed on Thursday in my front yard. And do the backyard 2 weeks later. I don't want to take away all play areas for my kids at one time. I feel the nights are cool enough now.
> 
> 
> 
> Am i wrong in that mesotrione shouldn't be used on bermuda?
Click to expand...

I've used it both years. No issues. My Bermuda still looks great. But when I killed off my prg 2 years ago in April I had some dead spots. When I killed it off this past year March 1. It came in pretty good. I think April was too late to wait.


----------



## Nick2879

On I do remember it turning pink during germination in some areas of my front yard. But 2 weeks in it was all green. So I'll continue using it.


----------



## AZ5445

I just bought some Champion GQ PRG. I noticed the application rate says 7-9lbs per acre. Comparing this to what I usually see at 10-15lbs per 1000sq ft this seems like it has to be wrong. What am I missing?


----------



## anthonybilotta

AZ5445 said:


> I just bought some Champion GQ PRG. I noticed the application rate says 7-9lbs per acre. Comparing this to what I usually see at 10-15lbs per 1000sq ft this seems like it has to be wrong. What am I missing?


I believe if you are cutting at a normal height, such as 2-3 inches, then bag rate is appropriate. However, it should be 7-9 pounds per thousand. However, if your are aiming for fairway height or greens height, then you need to seed at a higher density such as 15lbs per thousand


----------



## MasterMech

Nick2879 said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well boys, I think I'm out this year. IF I can get seed locally, it's likely to be at $170+/50lbs (Was <$90 last year) and I was wanting 300lbs to do my whole lawn. IF I can find suitable seed locally, I might consider doing just the 5M I've got out front, but if I'm going to mow all winter, I really wanted the benefit of no dead Bermuda in the house.
> 
> 
> 
> My local ewing here in the raleigh area has the birdie blend for $110 a bag ($70 last year. Ouch!) I used it last year in my back yard. Looked good. Not as dark as the champion in my front yard but not really worth the price difference IMO. Good luck
Click to expand...

I will try them and see what I can get. Thanks!


----------



## Jjones45

Does anyone know if I can spray plant growth regulator after I laid the seed down? I forgot to do the PGR application before hand.


----------



## JLMTX83

Getting ready for showtime here, PGR down, Reel on the way and looking forward to cooler mows. Picked up the drop seeder for the narrow strips to see how it does in addition to the Earthway/Lesco's


----------



## JLMTX83

Jjones45 said:


> Does anyone know if I can spray plant growth regulator after I laid the seed down? I forgot to do the PGR application before hand.


PGR is normally foliar I believe, which PGR did you spray?


----------



## Mattopb3

I laid Bandera Bermuda sod in June in the back yard. And I don't want to see a yellow dormant yard would I be okay with seeding the lawn with Annual Rye Grass just to keep the appearance of a green lawn during the winter months?


----------



## MasterMech

Mattopb3 said:


> I laid Bandera Bermuda sod in June in the back yard. And I don't want to see a yellow dormant yard would I be okay with seeding the lawn with Annual Rye Grass just to keep the appearance of a green lawn during the winter months?


I would not as it's still the first season for your new lawn.


----------



## MasterMech

MasterMech said:


> Well boys, I think I'm out this year. IF I can get seed locally, it's likely to be at $170+/50lbs (Was <$90 last year) and I was wanting 300lbs to do my whole lawn. IF I can find suitable seed locally, I might consider doing just the 5M I've got out front, but if I'm going to mow all winter, I really wanted the benefit of no dead Bermuda in the house.


Scratch that, reverse it.

I'm in, 300lbs of Ewing's Birdie Rye in my pickup as we speak. $110/50lb 😣 That analysis though… 😯



Seeing what else pops up is half-the fun right boys?! 😂 😭


----------



## cnet24

@MasterMech i have used birdie many times and never had issues with unwanted weeds. This was reel mowing around 3/4".

Still not a desirable label for that price. They have a higher end blend (eagle) I think but that is not usually sold in stores.


----------



## MasterMech

cnet24 said:


> @MasterMech i have used birdie many times and never had issues with unwanted weeds. This was reel mowing around 3/4".
> 
> Still not a desirable label for that price. They have a higher end blend (eagle) I think but that is not usually sold in stores.


My preferred option (Lesco Overseeding Eagle) is $170/50lb this year (was $85 last year....) and no guarantee that any will be available as I did not snag any over the summer like I should have. We all knew this price hike was coming.

All seed is way, way up. So while we may be accustomed to getting blue tag seed at these prices, it just ain't so this year.


----------



## Thor865

8 days since seed down. Will give it its first mow tomorrow and seed some problem areas


----------



## Slim 1938

Nice @Thor865. Looking good. It's still too hot here to put down seed. Maybe in a week temps will drop.


----------



## cyrjm

atlvolfan06 said:


> Ready to go, I'm thinking 9/18 in Atlanta.


I'm in Marietta and am planting 300ish pounds of TTTF on the other parts of our property so I was planning on waiting until mid-October. Hancock Seed tells me the cooler the better...hopefully it's not too late.


----------



## Light of the World

My tifway 419 is at 2" hoc. I'm in the rotary club for now. Is PGR a necessity? Or will scalping and aeration be good enough? I have never used a pgr, I just mow my butt off lol.


----------



## Jjones45

JLMTX83 said:


> Jjones45 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if I can spray plant growth regulator after I laid the seed down? I forgot to do the PGR application before hand.
> 
> 
> 
> PGR is normally foliar I believe, which PGR did you spray?
Click to expand...

I went ahead and sprayed Tnex after I seeded. I wasn't sure if it would hurt the seed or not. I sprayed about two hours after over seeding the Bermuda so hopefully it works out. If not I can seed again


----------



## Jacobpaschall

How much tnex is everyone using on hybrid Bermuda prior to overseeing? I believe the label says 0.5 oz/k. I know that's high for hybrid, but it should really put it to sleep. Anyone putting a lower rate?


----------



## Light of the World

Light of the World said:


> My tifway 419 is at 2" hoc. I'm in the rotary club for now. Is PGR a necessity? Or will scalping and aeration be good enough? I have never used a pgr, I just mow my butt off lol.


^^ Bump ^^


----------



## AllisonN

Light of the World said:


> Light of the World said:
> 
> 
> 
> My tifway 419 is at 2" hoc. I'm in the rotary club for now. Is PGR a necessity? Or will scalping and aeration be good enough? I have never used a pgr, I just mow my butt off lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ^^ Bump ^^
Click to expand...

PGR is not a necessity. I overseeded last year and didn't use PGR.


----------



## bretben55

Bought the Empro Birdie as well from Ewing at $123 with tax in Huntsville, AL. The SiteOne wanted $212 for the Double Eagle that was sitting on their shelf from last year! Every online store seems to be sold out of perennial rye, or it's $174 plus tax and shipping.


----------



## Thor865

12 days after seeding


----------



## lanc0227

Seed is in. How often do I need to be watering with temps like this? How many times a day and how long per zone? Thanks!

Also, is this too warm to start?


----------



## Jjones45

The temps look good to me. I planted mine last week and it's doing fine. Similar temps in Arkansas. Just water enough to keep the seed moist. I just look at the peat moss that I used for cover and if looks dry then I turn the irrigation on for a few minutes.


----------



## ZoysiaJK

MrTophatJones said:


> I think I want to try a small overseed this fall (~500sqft). Am I going to have a bad time if I use a bag of Pennington annual ryegrass from the big box store, or will it look nice at 1/2-3/4"? I don't care if it is super premium, just want a little pop of color in the winter months.
> 
> What are options for spraying it out near ornamental trees in the spring? I have a Japanese Maple that almost certainly has roots under my yard so I think that rules out MSM Turf.






Cheap seed mix of a bunch of different perennial rye, didn't last past mid July but looked amazing from November of 2020 to June of 2021. Sown on top of bare dirt and zoysia. This year I got some "heat tolerant" Scott's seed. We'll see if I need to go more expensive after this years overseed.


----------



## Hotcarl

Hello,

I've been lurking in here for the better part of a year. I've read that you shouldn't overseed with PRG after freshly laid sod (Bermuda) for the first year. I live in Phoenix and we are almost to the point where our weather would permit. The sod has been installed abs thriving for approximately 13 months now.

The caveat is that the sod installed was over seeded Bermuda. The transition was quick and I had full coverage. I also did a fairly aggressive HOC reduction about a month ago and I was back to a sea of green in 8 days. We have young kids, a dog, and entertain in the back yard so I'm getting pressure from the wife to have a living space this winter.

Should I let her rip with PRG this winter or give it another year? ~3k sqft Tifway 419


----------



## wiseowl

Jacobpaschall said:


> How much tnex is everyone using on hybrid Bermuda prior to overseeing? I believe the label says 0.5 oz/k. I know that's high for hybrid, but it should really put it to sleep. Anyone putting a lower rate?


I sprayed .75 prior to overseed for 2200 sqft on TIF419 kept at 3/4" last year. This year I maintained at .375 and will probably spray the same suppression depending on weather. I put my pgr app down yesterday though and my application shows me good till November ... I know that the app will move closer to endish of October though. I'm expecting a wetter winter this year in socal for sure.


----------



## wiseowl

Hotcarl said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've been lurking in here for the better part of a year. I've read that you shouldn't overseed with PRG after freshly laid sod (Bermuda) for the first year. I live in Phoenix and we are almost to the point where our weather would permit. The sod has been installed abs thriving for approximately 13 months now.
> 
> The caveat is that the sod installed was over seeded Bermuda. The transition was quick and I had full coverage. I also did a fairly aggressive HOC reduction about a month ago and I was back to a sea of green in 8 days. We have young kids, a dog, and entertain in the back yard so I'm getting pressure from the wife to have a living space this winter.
> 
> Should I let her rip with PRG this winter or give it another year? ~3k sqft Tifway 419


Go for it, my tif419 was overseeded when I laid it so I knew going into my first "winter" from when I laid sod in June I would be scalping back and overseeding prg and I sprayed PGR on it the first season. They don't call Bermuda a weed for nothing.

Wife knows best


----------



## lanc0227

What is everyone doing as far as watering schedule for their newly laid seed? How many times per day should I water and how long per zone?


----------



## Thor865

lanc0227 said:


> What is everyone doing as far as watering schedule for their newly laid seed? How many times per day should I water and how long per zone?


Depends on your heads but I ran 5x a day for 10min each zone on mp rotator heads. Roughly .3" a day.


----------



## jayhawk

Slim 1938 said:


> Well I messed up. The seed I found at tractor supply is perennial and shipping was about 20 bucks or pick it up at store with no shipping fee. My tight @ss found the same one on home depot online with free shipping to home for same price so I pulled trigger. Well I read closer today and the home depot is ANNUAL. Well crap. Send it back or do annual?
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/mayberry-turf-type-perennial-ryegrass-25-lb-1310992?cm_mmc=feed-_-GoogleShopping-_-Product-_-1310992&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvO2IBhCzARIsALw3ASpWb_M5s2u6x2fuMuQMYKQ3h9wjYch34320kJ4KXhOpeOsuHQjCRioaAmamEALw_wcB
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Mayberry-25-lbs-Lawn-Grass-Seed-Ryegrass-96161/304813279


Send it back. Annual is a mess


----------



## Thor865

The most perfect rainbow


----------



## Redtwin

Thor865 said:


> The most perfect rainbow


I was seriously considering overseeding a section of by backyard just to have it look nice for winter football, soccer, or bocce ball games. It's been on the struggle-bus lately though so I don't think it is a good idea. On top of that, it's crazy expensive this year.

I'm going to just live my lawn life vicariously through @Thor865.


----------



## sykescc

What is everyone's ideal HoC for their rye overseed going into fall/winter? Maintain at same height as your bermuda was kept all summer or is rye better kept at a slightly taller HoC?

I kept my bermuda right at 0.5" all summer and was thinking about keeping the rye slightly higher than that (maybe 0.75") throughout the fall/winter just to change the look up a bit from the summer short stuff. Any pros or cons to letting the rye get taller or keeping it shorter?


----------



## Thor865

sykescc said:


> What is everyone's ideal HoC for their rye overseed going into fall/winter? Maintain at same height as your bermuda was kept all summer or is rye better kept at a slightly taller HoC?
> 
> I kept my bermuda right at 0.5" all summer and was thinking about keeping the rye slightly higher than that (maybe 0.75") throughout the fall/winter just to change the look up a bit from the summer short stuff. Any pros or cons to letting the rye get taller or keeping it shorter?


General rule of thumb I'd say is at least ,25 higher to hide the dormant Bermuda but you can go as tall as you want. I rotary mow my side section at 2" and it does great


----------



## Hapa512

Thor865 said:


> sykescc said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is everyone's ideal HoC for their rye overseed going into fall/winter? Maintain at same height as your bermuda was kept all summer or is rye better kept at a slightly taller HoC?
> 
> I kept my bermuda right at 0.5" all summer and was thinking about keeping the rye slightly higher than that (maybe 0.75") throughout the fall/winter just to change the look up a bit from the summer short stuff. Any pros or cons to letting the rye get taller or keeping it shorter?
> 
> 
> 
> General rule of thumb I'd say is at least ,25 higher to hide the dormant Bermuda but you can go as tall as you want. I rotary mow my side section at 2" and it does great
Click to expand...

I maintain my bermuda likewise as you do during the summer just at .5 to 5/8. Rye grass seems to look at lot better in the 1"-1.25 area. If you like stripes, it stripes a lot better at that height range. Also it depends on how many pounds of seed you put down? I believe if your putting down 15lbs-20lbs per 1,000 sqft the nicer it will when its short and thick. Just my two cents...


----------



## Thor865

Hapa512 said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sykescc said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is everyone's ideal HoC for their rye overseed going into fall/winter? Maintain at same height as your bermuda was kept all summer or is rye better kept at a slightly taller HoC?
> 
> I kept my bermuda right at 0.5" all summer and was thinking about keeping the rye slightly higher than that (maybe 0.75") throughout the fall/winter just to change the look up a bit from the summer short stuff. Any pros or cons to letting the rye get taller or keeping it shorter?
> 
> 
> 
> General rule of thumb I'd say is at least ,25 higher to hide the dormant Bermuda but you can go as tall as you want. I rotary mow my side section at 2" and it does great
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I maintain my bermuda likewise as you do during the summer just at .5 to 5/8. Rye grass seems to look at lot better in the 1"-1.25 area. If you like stripes, it stripes a lot better at that height range. Also it depends on how many pounds of seed you put down? I believe if your putting down 15lbs-20lbs per 1,000 sqft the nicer it will when its short and thick. Just my two cents...
Click to expand...

.75 reel mowed to 2" rotary mowed, same seed rate. No difference in overall quality


----------



## atlvolfan06

PRG seed down in Atlanta! Scarified with Sunjoe at -5 and scalped back to 0.6" with the reel. Hit the Bermuda with 0.4oz/k Tnex, spread seed at 15lbs/k, and lightly covered with peat. Kids are at Grandma's for a few more days so hoping to get it going quick!


----------



## gwolf64

Last year I overseeded with rye... had a great result... I rented a self-propelled overseeder it was brutal on the hills!!!! I can't find a self-propelled overseeder in my area... Do y'all think it will work if I ONLY scalped and threw down seed?


----------



## gwolf64

gwolf64 said:


> Last year I overseeded with rye... had a great result... I rented a self-propelled overseeder it was brutal on the hills!!!! I can't find a self-propelled overseeder in my area... Do y'all think it will work if I ONLY scalped and threw down seed?


Maybe I will use a tow behind dethatcher? They only cost $100.... Any benefit?


----------



## MasterMech

gwolf64 said:


> gwolf64 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last year I overseeded with rye... had a great result... I rented a self-propelled overseeder it was brutal on the hills!!!! I can't find a self-propelled overseeder in my area... Do y'all think it will work if I ONLY scalped and threw down seed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I will use a tow behind dethatcher? They only cost $100.... Any benefit?
Click to expand...

Most of those rental "overseeders" are just power rakes with a drop spreader Gorilla-taped to the front. You could rent a power rake, bag the debris, and broadcast spread seed no problem. I've also done the scalp and seed, it works, but I still prefer some sort of vertical mow beforehand.


----------



## Hapa512

gwolf64 said:


> Last year I overseeded with rye... had a great result... I rented a self-propelled overseeder it was brutal on the hills!!!! I can't find a self-propelled overseeder in my area... Do y'all think it will work if I ONLY scalped and threw down seed?


That's what I did and it worked just fine ! no issues at all. Scalped to 1/4 threw the seed down, fert and water and it was good to go. Rye Grass will pretty much germinate on the sidewalk if you let it....LOL


----------



## MidloMillers2012

Has anyone used the steps University of Arizona recommends for overseeding?
They recommend mowing and leaving clippings immediately before seeding.
I'm getting ready to do this for the first time on a full lawn scale as opposed to my little test chipping strip last year.

Thoughts?


----------



## PhxHeat

@MidloMillers2012 , those instructions will work fine. Their info on grass, trees, and plants for desert regions is pretty good. I agree that 12-15 lbs per 1,000 sqft makes for a very nice turf.

Rye grass is pretty forgiving as long as: it is "fresh" (not old seed), touches the soil and is kept lightly damp during germination.

Personally I don't subscribe to the letting grass grow taller before scalping for overseed. Pretty much business as usual until it's rye time.

I scalp. I bag...(I have left clippings and didn't notice a difference). I'll scuff the soil a little by dragging a garden rake around but nothing too crazy. I put out starter fert. I give the yard a regular watering that night. The next morning I'll spread the seed east/west, then north south for a nice coverage. Then I drag a big plastic leaf rake over the seed both directions again to further help a nice even coverage. Then I'll water a few minutes to kick it off. I do a light/short watering several times during daylight / sunny hours. I try to keep it fairly simple and the rye does its thing.


----------



## Lawndry List

Any chance a big rainstorm could washout seed into the neighbors yard? Did my best to use the guard on my spreader to not let it get into his yard, but we've got heavy rain tonight that could push that seed over or am I crazy?


----------



## MasterMech

Lawndry List said:


> Any chance a big rainstorm could washout seed into the neighbors yard? Did my best to use the guard on my spreader to not let it get into his yard, but we've got heavy rain tonight that could push that seed over or am I crazy?


A little, perhaps. The existing blanket of Bermuda will keep it from moving much unless you see standing water/rivers.

A quick spot treat with Prodiamine (if they don't already have a Pre-m down) will stop any from coming up if they don't want it.


----------



## rothnic

I put the Mayberry Turf Type PRG down last Wednesday 9/22/21 in north Alabama right after we had nearly a week of rain, temps were dropping a little at night, and I had a forecast of about 7 days of no rain coming up. I put 50lbs out of the 100lbs I bought to start with over about 7500 sq ft, so that I can follow up in any areas that are more sparse. In particular, we have some areas near trees where the ground is much more compacted I was worried about. So, to summarize:

*Location:* Huntsville, AL
*Weather:* Highs: Mid 70s - Mid 80s, Lows: Low 50s - Upper 60s (weather underground summary)
*Lawn:* ~7500 sq ft unknown hybrid bermuda
*Seed:* 100lbs of Mayberry Turf Type PRG
*Prep:* Scalp=.5", Scarify=-5
*PGR Bermuda:* Yes, 0.3oz/1k
*First Seeding:* 50lbs (~6lbs/1k) 9/22/21
*Watering:* 4x in daytime hours, 5min per zone
*Germination Started:* 9/28-9/29
*First Mow:* Maybe 10/2/21
*Second Seeding Date:* Not sure yet

*Seed*
The 100lbs of Mayberry Turf Type PRG was only $150 from Tractor Supply Co, but there appears to be very little information about it. It doesn't seem to be a blend of any particular type, so we'll see how it does. Given how much prep work there was, I might try a specific variety next time, but we'll see how this does first. It would have been at least twice as expensive to go for some special variety.

*Prep*
I prepared the lawn by scalping down to about .5-.75". My jacobsen tc22 doesn't like taking a lot off at once, so I had to go over the yard multiple times. I then used the Sunjoe with the scarifier insert through all the areas I could reasonably hit with it without the tiny bag attached. I then took one more pass with the TC22 over the yard to pick up as much of the grass pulled up as possible. The grass catcher on my TC22 is much quicker to remove and replace, so I didn't try to use the sun joe one. I probably could have pulled up more grass, but I'm planning on just throwing more seed down if I have any sparse areas.

I then applied about .3oz/1000sqft of TNex PGR combined with a light application of chelated iron (1oz/1000sq ft) on the scalped and scarified bermuda. I was hoping the iron combined with the upcoming watering would help the bermuda stay short and green up with some recovery growth through the transition. At this time my neighbors' yards who seem to cut at 3-4" were looking super lush and deep green in stark contrast to my dry brown yard. I'm sure they thought i was crazy. I gave the PGR/iron a few hours to dry before seeding.

*Seeding*
My neighbors will have dormant bermuda, so I wanted to control where the seed was dropped very carefully. I didn't see anything about how people control this, so I purchased the scotts classic drop spreader. It says that the settings tell you how many pounds of material will be dropped over 1000 sq ft, but I found it to be way off. I was thinking I would start with the setting of 5, for 5lbs per 1000sq ft, but then ended up going over my 3000sq ft front lawn in 3 different directions and maybe had put down 5 lbs over the entire area. I finally went up to a setting of 9 and that was much better for dropping the correct amount of seed over 2 passes. I was shooting for a little over 6lbs per 1000 sq ft to start with, then will later use the reserve to cover the sparse areas. I used no topping, since I was tired of walking back and forth over the lawn at this point, and have plenty of seed in reserve. While I was going over the last section of the back yard and my wife asked if I was regretting it yet and I of course said No, but I was starting to a little 

*Watering/Care*
We have sprinklers running off an Orbit BHyve controller. It normally uses the smart watering, but I created a manual program to keep the yard moist. The schedule I used watering at 8AM, 11AM, 4PM, and 8PM with 5 minutes of run time per zone.

We have two kids and neighbor kids over relatively often. I did not keep them off the lawn at all during this time. Again, I would rather just use more seed than make this an overly disruptive process.

*Germination*
I did a small tester cup ahead of time, so knew it would take about 7 days and sure enough over the last 3 days it has started to really show up. My front yard, which was scalped a little more aggressively and receives less direct sun has seemed to germinate a little more quickly.

*Mowing/Care Plans*
I plan to mow the PRG around 1-1.25" or so, which is similar to where I've been cutting the bermuda. I have spacers on my tc22 to increase the HOC to just over 1" and modified my Landroid WR150 to lower the height of cut to about the same height. This allows me to cut the lawn only when I want and I imagine will come in handy when it is cold outside this winter.

I still need to drop some starter fertilizer, which I plan to do in the next couple days. I also plan to leverage PGR at low rates once it has established. I'll probably wait another couple days before mowing for the first time. We have rain coming on Sunday, so I might mow just before the rain comes in.

*Progress*



Maybe 2-3 days after scalping and seeding


Today, Front Yard 8 full days after seeding



Backyard 8 full days after seeding


----------



## Herring

How much water is everyone doing after germination? Highs in the 80s here for the foreseeable future and trying to get a gauge on how to supplement watering or if the rye will handle the heat.


----------



## atlvolfan06

9 days in first mowed to 1", 3lbs/k 16-4-8, and striping hard already. Still very lime green, may hit it with some TGP blade iron next week. My germination in front due to slope and sun has been a bit slower. Maybe 4 days behind. Water requirements are definitely low, but I think the trick is 5-10 min every 2-4 hrs to keep the seed moist depending on drainage and sunlight.


----------



## Blake_DFWlawn

How long is everyone waiting for first mow? Seed went down 7 days ago and am having good germination. Rye is about an 1" to 1.5" but with the recent water and nice 80s in Dallas, the Bermuda recovered nicely too and is probably close to 5/8"-3/4" so needing cut. Can I cut or should I wait a few more days?

The Bermuda has definitely hit the breaks with some of the colder nights.


----------



## Thor865

25 days after seeding. More pics in my journal


----------



## lanc0227

First time doing prg so I'm not sure what Is normal and what is not. Some areas are doing much better than others. Very patchy. Will the thin areas fill in? This is 12 days after seeding.


----------



## Hapa512

lanc0227 said:



> First time doing prg so I'm not sure what Is normal and what is not. Some areas are doing much better than others. Very patchy. Will the thin areas fill in? This is 12 days after seeding.


Unfortunately PRG doesn't fill in like bermuda does, so you will probably have to add more seed down to those areas that are patchy. I had a few similar areas like that last year. It might be better to wait a little bit until the temps come down a tad bit? I found that germination is much better when the temps are a tad bit cooler.


----------



## PhxHeat

Like many crop seed, rye prefers/needs a "cooler" temp at night to germinate. In my experience 60°-65° works well and had similar results as low as mid 40's.

Rye will sprout a single blade from the seed. As it matures that single shoot/blade will generate more leaves from that same stalk called tillers. Rye will always look a bit sparse until the tillers start kicking in.


----------



## adidasUNT8

Thor865 said:


> 25 days after seeding. More pics in my journal


beautiful! Height of cut? also, how quickly did you start mowing with the powered reel?


----------



## Thor865

adidasUNT8 said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 25 days after seeding. More pics in my journal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautiful! Height of cut? also, how quickly did you start mowing with the powered reel?
Click to expand...

.75 hoc. Mowed with gm1600 since first mow at day 10


----------



## Blake_DFWlawn

8 days after seeding. Getting nice even germination on the Double Eagle PRG. The Bermuda is enjoying the extra water too after our NTX drought lol


----------



## ShadowGuy

Overseeded my kikuyu/St. Augustine mix. Almost 4 weeks in and starting to stripe at .75"


----------



## adidasUNT8

Thor865 said:


> adidasUNT8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 25 days after seeding. More pics in my journal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beautiful! Height of cut? also, how quickly did you start mowing with the powered reel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .75 hoc. Mowed with gm1600 since first mow at day 10
Click to expand...

It's been 10 days for me and I've used a manual reel at around 1". I'm nervous to get the JD out and pull it up but I'm anxious for stripes. Lol.


----------



## Thor865

That's fine nothing wrong with waiting. I just don't have one so I've never worried about it


----------



## Slim 1938

I went ahead and put down the annual rye. I had germination at day 7. I then put more seed down to ensure even coverage. I ran my pull type spike aerator before second seed and spread a like coat of peatmoss. I now have great coverage and I mowed yesterday with my 25 CT. I also put down ammonium sulfate. The bare spot is where I had a pool. I plan on putting a sand box for kids there. Oh and I never pulled my two dogs and two kids off the lawn either.


----------



## rothnic

I'm around 17 days post seeding. It looks great, but it seems a bit sparse, so I'm going to go ahead and add the rest of my seed and potentially go ahead and buy a bit more. The bermuda is really looking good in the front yard, and the prg acts as a striping agent.

I think I can address the sparseness, but I've discovered very very poor germination on the left and right sides of my yard. I finally realized that while I didn't put down pre emergent, I'm pretty sure my neighbors lawn care company did and likely went well beyond the edges of their yards to be safe. So, im curious if anyone has ran into this before and if there is anything I can do except rough the sections of the yard with poor germination.

Otherwise, I am getting some great striping action.


----------



## Zimmerman

Here's my front yard 17 days after PRG overseeding.


----------



## adidasUNT8

Zimmerman said:


> Here's my front yard 17 days after PRG overseeding.


Looks great! How are y'all doing your first powered reel mow. I mowed ~2.2.5 down to 3/4" and it it's definitely not a clean cut. Most of it looks to just be laid down. Are y'all gradually taking it down or taking it down to an inch over multiple passes or what?


----------



## M311att

How long do you wait on the "late bloomers"? I see some seed in places that haven't germinated yet.


----------



## Zimmerman

@adidasUNT8 I just set my cal trimmer to 1 inch and went for it. I didn't measure the rye before I mowed it though. The picture I posted was after it's second mow and it seemed to cut cleaner than my first mow.


----------



## Thor865

35 days after seeding


----------



## MasterMech

Call me late, but never late for dinner.... :roll:

Day 1 was yesterday, would have been 2 weeks earlier as I like to get down around Oct 1st. Unforseen circumstances had me off-campus or completely tied-up for the last 10+ days. Hopefully this warm October carries long enough for me to get in fighting shape before first frost. Probably going to be close but overnight temps are just now starting to flirt with 49/50° F. I will grab a picture hopefully if I make it home before dark tonight.

I'm @ 15lbs/1M of Ewings Birdie PRG Blend.


----------



## Jacobpaschall

These are about 13-14 days after seed went down.


----------



## itslogz

My September 28th seeding of Ewing birdie blend finally starting to come together, had a lot of issues keeping it watered adequately. Mowing at 7/8" to start with


----------



## Memphis2830

I've seen some posts mention that Bermuda should not be overseeded with PRG during the first growing season - is that correct? I have a 4'x6' strip of bermuda that was just put down here in Memphis. The new turf lies on a steep slope and I doubt it'll root by dormancy. Any drawbacks to throwing down some PRG seed to this area to minimize erosion over the winter?


----------



## Trippel24

Jacobpaschall said:


> These are about 13-14 days after seed went down.


Wow, I just scalped yesterday and throwing seed this weekend. Surprised that lasted through those 100+ degree days 2 weeks ago. Looks great!


----------



## Jacobpaschall

Trippel24 said:


> Jacobpaschall said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are about 13-14 days after seed went down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, I just scalped yesterday and throwing seed this weekend. Surprised that lasted through those 100+ degree days 2 weeks ago. Looks great!
Click to expand...

I put my seed down right after that last heat wave we had. As soon as I saw consistent 80s in the forecast, I went for it. Weather has been perfect for germination the past couple weeks.


----------



## adidasUNT8

Would it kill the prg to take it down over a few passes from 3" to 5/8" or so?


----------



## PhxHeat

@adidasUNT8 I wouldn't think so. I haven't gone from that tall down, but have from 1.5"-2" down to about 5/8" with no issue.


----------



## Nashvillerookie

adidasUNT8 said:


> Would it kill the prg to take it down over a few passes from 3" to 5/8" or so?


I have a similar question. I overseeded Latitude 36 with Ryan Knorr's PRG blend on 10/28, manual reel mowed at 1.5 inches 8 days later, more seed on thin spots 2 days after mowing and now the original seeding is about 2.5 inches but only 6 days into the second seeding. What's the best process for getting down to .75 HOC?


----------



## Hapa512

Nashvillerookie said:


> adidasUNT8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would it kill the prg to take it down over a few passes from 3" to 5/8" or so?
> 
> 
> 
> I have a similar question. I overseeded Latitude 36 with Ryan Knorr's PRG blend on 10/28, manual reel mowed at 1.5 inches 8 days later, more seed on thin spots 2 days after mowing and now the original seeding is about 2.5 inches but only 6 days into the second seeding. What's the best process for getting down to .75 HOC?
Click to expand...

you could use the 1/3 rule....? I will use a rotary mower for the first cut when the grass is about 2+ inches after seeding followed by whatever height I decide to maintain at. I usually will maintain at 1/2 inch to 3/4 with my reel mower which will be my second cut. It really depends on how well the grass seed germinates and how it looks? If I have to change the height because the grass is think etc, then I won't take as much off the second cut. Some spots may grow faster then other parts and I want to try and have that same consistent height if possible?


----------



## Nashvillerookie

Hapa512 said:


> Nashvillerookie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> adidasUNT8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would it kill the prg to take it down over a few passes from 3" to 5/8" or so?
> 
> 
> 
> I have a similar question. I overseeded Latitude 36 with Ryan Knorr's PRG blend on 10/28, manual reel mowed at 1.5 inches 8 days later, more seed on thin spots 2 days after mowing and now the original seeding is about 2.5 inches but only 6 days into the second seeding. What's the best process for getting down to .75 HOC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you could use the 1/3 rule....? I will use a rotary mower for the first cut when the grass is about 2+ inches after seeding followed by whatever height I decide to maintain at. I usually will maintain at 1/2 inch to 3/4 with my reel mower which will be my second cut. It really depends on how well the grass seed germinates and how it looks? If I have to change the height because the grass is think etc, then I won't take as much off the second cut. Some spots may grow faster then other parts and I want to try and have that same consistent height if possible?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. Seems reasonable. My only issue is whether the rotary mower will damage any germination of the second overseed.


----------



## Jacobpaschall

Nashvillerookie said:


> adidasUNT8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would it kill the prg to take it down over a few passes from 3" to 5/8" or so?
> 
> 
> 
> I have a similar question. I overseeded Latitude 36 with Ryan Knorr's PRG blend on 10/28, manual reel mowed at 1.5 inches 8 days later, more seed on thin spots 2 days after mowing and now the original seeding is about 2.5 inches but only 6 days into the second seeding. What's the best process for getting down to .75 HOC?
Click to expand...

On the sections I maintain with a reel mower, I go straight to my GM1000 at my hoc, which is .700 with groomer set at .350. I don't mess with a manual or rotary at all. I think I started mowing 9 days after putting the seed down. I also added more seed after about 7 days.


----------



## Nashvillerookie

Jacobpaschall said:


> Nashvillerookie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> adidasUNT8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would it kill the prg to take it down over a few passes from 3" to 5/8" or so?
> 
> 
> 
> I have a similar question. I overseeded Latitude 36 with Ryan Knorr's PRG blend on 10/28, manual reel mowed at 1.5 inches 8 days later, more seed on thin spots 2 days after mowing and now the original seeding is about 2.5 inches but only 6 days into the second seeding. What's the best process for getting down to .75 HOC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On the sections I maintain with a reel mower, I go straight to my GM1000 at my hoc, which is .700 with groomer set at .350. I don't mess with a manual or rotary at all. I think I started mowing 9 days after putting the seed down. I also added more seed after about 7 days.
Click to expand...

Good deal, thanks. I might manual reel for the first cut since it's around 3 inches, and then switch to my Jacobsen (I would be emptying the catcher on every pass). Did you add more seed 7 days after mowing or 7 days initial seeding? Thanks again.


----------



## adidasUNT8

Nashvillerookie said:


> Jacobpaschall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nashvillerookie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a similar question. I overseeded Latitude 36 with Ryan Knorr's PRG blend on 10/28, manual reel mowed at 1.5 inches 8 days later, more seed on thin spots 2 days after mowing and now the original seeding is about 2.5 inches but only 6 days into the second seeding. What's the best process for getting down to .75 HOC?
> 
> 
> 
> On the sections I maintain with a reel mower, I go straight to my GM1000 at my hoc, which is .700 with groomer set at .350. I don't mess with a manual or rotary at all. I think I started mowing 9 days after putting the seed down. I also added more seed after about 7 days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good deal, thanks. I might manual reel for the first cut since it's around 3 inches, and then switch to my Jacobsen (I would be emptying the catcher on every pass). Did you add more seed 7 days after mowing or 7 days initial seeding? Thanks again.
Click to expand...

i'm thinking the same thing. are you thinking mow with the manual reel and then give it a day to rest then the next day go over with the Jacobsen? Not sure if doing both on the same day would hurt the grass. Not a PRG expert on how resilient it is.


----------



## Slim 1938

You won't hurt it. I went straight to the 25c cal trimmer and didn't have problems. I have a spot under a tree that was bare dirt and I am careful there but no issues. I've even let it get tall and cut it short with zero issues.


----------



## Thor865

Right at 40 DAS


----------



## Jacobpaschall

Nashvillerookie said:


> Jacobpaschall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nashvillerookie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a similar question. I overseeded Latitude 36 with Ryan Knorr's PRG blend on 10/28, manual reel mowed at 1.5 inches 8 days later, more seed on thin spots 2 days after mowing and now the original seeding is about 2.5 inches but only 6 days into the second seeding. What's the best process for getting down to .75 HOC?
> 
> 
> 
> On the sections I maintain with a reel mower, I go straight to my GM1000 at my hoc, which is .700 with groomer set at .350. I don't mess with a manual or rotary at all. I think I started mowing 9 days after putting the seed down. I also added more seed after about 7 days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good deal, thanks. I might manual reel for the first cut since it's around 3 inches, and then switch to my Jacobsen (I would be emptying the catcher on every pass). Did you add more seed 7 days after mowing or 7 days initial seeding? Thanks again.
Click to expand...

7 days after initial seeding. So I was mowing over the 2nd seeding after just a couple days. Not sure how well the 2nd round of seed germinated, but it gets thicker each day so I'm sure it was fine. Most of the thin new blades lay over at first, but eventually they get cut as they stand back up and thicken up.


----------



## Getting Fat

My first time overseeding my bermuda with PRG. What is everyone using for post-emergent weed control?


----------



## Jacobpaschall

Getting Fat said:


> My first time overseeding my bermuda with PRG. What is everyone using for post-emergent weed control?


I've used POA Constrictor for POA annua with success. Not sure about broadleaf. I know tenacity is safe on prg, but it is not for Bermuda. If your Bermuda was completely dormant, it might be ok. I'm sure there's others and someone else can chime in.


----------



## Thor865

Getting Fat said:


> My first time overseeding my bermuda with PRG. What is everyone using for post-emergent weed control?


Don't worry about it. You'll spray msm, monument, Celsius, or a combo of such in spring to kill off the prg which will in turn rid you of most winter weeds


----------



## Getting Fat

Thor865 said:


> Getting Fat said:
> 
> 
> 
> My first time overseeding my bermuda with PRG. What is everyone using for post-emergent weed control?
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry about it. You'll spray msm, monument, Celsius, or a combo of such in spring to kill off the prg which will in turn rid you of most winter weeds
Click to expand...

Huh, never considered the don't worry about it approach. Works for me. Thanks


----------



## Kdaves12

My Plan 
*Back Yard* - Began October 9th
*Front Yard* - Began October 17th
_25lb bag of Champion GQ_

*Day 0*

Scalp / Verticut / Clean up

 1st Round Overseed @ 8lbs/1,000sqft

Finish w/ LeveLawn rake

_**Watering lawn 4x a day (7am / 11am / 3pm / 7pm)**
**For my front strip that is watered via drip line, I covered with peat moss and hand watering 1x a day (fingers crossed)**
**Instead of peat moss on my entire yard, I've staked some reflective pinwheels in the yard to keep the birds away**_

*Day 11*

2nd Round Overseed @ 4lbs/1,000sqft focusing on bare spots / washouts

12-12-12 Starter Fertilizer @ 3lbs/1,000sqft

Finish w/ Levelawn rake

Possibly roll in depending on current germination percentage

*Day 24*

1st Mow w/ Rotary mower (light/slow to avoid any ripping on the baby grass)
*
Day 35*

1st Low Mow with the Prostripe 560

Giddy up!


----------



## BigBoxLawn

We've had some really warm weeks here since I've planted my overseed. Came in great, and i've stayed on top of watering. The problem I see coming though, is the bermuda has recovered from a hard scalp, and even started go grow. It's going to reach my .75 mow height here soon. If it does so, and the bermuda then goes dormant, i imagine it will look horrible. Is the best move to just do a soft scalp once its cool enough, and will the PRG be fine to recover?


----------



## SeanBB

Looks like something from "The SIMS" game. &#129315;


----------



## lanc0227

Today marks 28 days post seeding. Starting to thicken up. I applied more seed last Monday. Mowed it today with my rotary. I'll be excited to switch over to the reel this weekend.


----------



## CLT49er

Do you guys have issues with rye in your deeper sanded areas? Noticing those spots the grass is dried out / grayish looking.


----------



## PhxHeat

@BigBoxLawn ... you should have zero problems cutting your rye lower to clean up late season bermuda once finally dormant. I usually have a rye-muda blend for a bit here in Az. By the time the bermuda finally calls it quits, the rye is usually starting to tiller (leaf out more). Rye cleans up nice and looks good down lower imo.


----------



## atlvolfan06

Anyone had any success with pregerminating rye for second/spot seedings? I found this out there from the USGA: https://www.usga.org/course-care/a-method-for-pregerminating-ryegrass-seed-for-divots-26348.html

My 1st seed date September 23rd, about 4 weeks in. Hit it with 0.5oz of PGR and 8oz of TGP Blade iron today. Hitting some 80s this weekend and the Bermuda was starting to rebound in some areas. We will see how this goes!


----------



## PhxHeat

• PRG seeded 12 days ago.
• First cut today at 3/4".
• The grass is still germinating, VERY young, thin, and "flimsy". The young seedlings ranged from 2" up to almost 3" tall in some spots....so it got its first cut of the season. My common bermuda is also trying to recover from the 1/4" scalp it got 2 weeks back before I dropped the prg and is slowly greening again. There are visible brown stolons poking about the fine baby rye, but they'll get worked out as the rye tillers kick in and the bermuda finally goes dormant over the next few weeks. Pretty happy overall with the progress for 12 days and a first cut of 3/4".


----------



## ltsibley

First year overseeding, excited to see how it turns out. Dropping seed tomorrow.

Question: should I roll in my seed with my GM1000?


----------



## Hapa512

ltsibley said:


> First year overseeding, excited to see how it turns out. Dropping seed tomorrow.
> 
> Question: should I roll in my seed with my GM1000?


I don't think you need to roll it in. If you scalped and have good seed to soil contact you should be fine. This is my second season overseeding and I never roll over my seed. Seems to work just fine.


----------



## adidasUNT8

a few spots in my yard are already pretty thick and i'm about a month in. Is there a way to thin some of these spots out without killing it?


----------



## PhxHeat

@adidasUNT8 .... unless you have a thing against a nice thick lush lawn, I don't know why you'd want to thin out rye. When rye gets thick and you cut it low, it is some of the best barefoot grass going imo. But you could verticut it to thin it if you wanted and it'd be fine.


----------



## adidasUNT8

PhxHeat said:


> @adidasUNT8 .... unless you have a thing against a nice thick lush lawn, I don't know why you'd want to thin out rye. When rye gets thick and you cut it low, it is some of the best barefoot grass going imo. But you could verticut it to thin it if you wanted and it'd be fine.


well a couple reasons really. If it's pretty thick now, when it matures it's going to be so thick it probably kills itself out in that area. Also, if it gets too thick, wouldn't it hinder the bermuda bouncing back?


----------



## PhxHeat

@adidasUNT8 
I've never had prg or annual choke itself out, but maybe others have.

Last year was my first to reel cut my bermuda and then my winter rye (prg front, annual back). I know my prg last year came out to be about 16 lbs per 1,000. It was pretty dense, had really good color (w/o adding iron) and was enjoyable to keep at or below a 1/2". When temps were about to start waking up the bermuda, I dropped the rye closer to 1/4" and it fizzled in the heat as the bermuda went to town. The transition back to my basic common bermuda seems to do fine, but I know some have had the rye allelopathy effect if they don't spray it out / kill it off. If you plan to spray out your rye, then I'd say the rye density shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## PhxHeat

here's a pic I've posted of it before.. post says I had the mower about a 1/4"-ish.


----------



## Slim 1938

My annual rye is doing good. I have a few pee spots but they're contained to one far corner area. I'm happy so far.


----------



## Hapa512

Quick question, I sowed my seed last week and have pretty good germination already, I only applied 7lbs per 1,000. I'm noticing I have done patchy areas.

How soon would be okay to walk on the lawn to apply more seed without damaging the new spouts. The current germination height ranges from .25 to over 1" ...I wanted to try and get it down sooner then later as I was planning on adding another 5lbs per 1,000.

Thanks for any insight.

Here's some pics.


----------



## bassmanaustin

Question, when is it too late to overseed my Bermuda with PRG? I did it last year about this time and the results were great. However, right now I still have some bare spots and my Bermuda is still growing because it is still up to 90 degrees here.
I've read 45 days before the first frost but who knows?


----------



## Hapa512

bassmanaustin said:


> Question, when is it too late to overseed my Bermuda with PRG? I did it last year about this time and the results were great. However, right now I still have some bare spots and my Bermuda is still growing because it is still up to 90 degrees here.
> I've read 45 days before the first frost but who knows?


I'm just up the road from you and I did mine last week, and I'm getting great germination after only 6 days. I believe if the ground temps fall below 50 degrees the rye will have a harder time germinating. Temps are supposed to drop down the middle of next week. I'm sure you have a window of a few weeks to spread your seed.


----------



## bassmanaustin

Thanks @Hapa512 . I will hold out for another week. Most of the golf courses like Forest Creek already have good Rye coming in on the tee box.


----------



## Hapa512

bassmanaustin said:


> Thanks @Hapa512 . I will hold out for another week. Most of the golf courses like Forest Creek already have good Rye coming in on the tee box.


Nice ! That's my favorite course....I'm sure it's in top shape !


----------



## Hapa512

Decided to cut yesterday as the rye seemed to be getting a little long and I didn't want more grass clippings.

I still need to clean up the leftover runners from scalping and verticutting. This was cut 10 days after laying down seed at 1" I still have another 22lbs of seed leftover.


----------



## anthonybilotta

Quick question,

I just put down 12lbs per 1000sqft on Sunday. Today it poured outside enough to cause small little piles of clippings to clump on my yard.

Question is, do I go ahead and put down more seed tonight because none of it has germinated yet and just assume that I had seed washout, or wait a week and reassess when I have some germination?


----------



## MasterMech

anthonybilotta said:


> Quick question,
> 
> I just put down 12lbs per 1000sqft on Sunday. Today it poured outside enough to cause small little piles of clippings to clump on my yard.
> 
> Question is, do I go ahead and put down more seed tonight because none of it has germinated yet and just assume that I had seed washout, or wait a week and reassess when I have some germination?


I would wait, but it is likely that you have some washout.


----------



## Kdaves12

I would wait at least 10-11 days from that Sunday; at that point, you will clearly see where you bare spots are. 
It will give your late germinators time to catch up.



anthonybilotta said:


> Quick question,
> 
> I just put down 12lbs per 1000sqft on Sunday. Today it poured outside enough to cause small little piles of clippings to clump on my yard.
> 
> Question is, do I go ahead and put down more seed tonight because none of it has germinated yet and just assume that I had seed washout, or wait a week and reassess when I have some germination?


----------



## Benwag

First mow @.750 2 weeks after seed down. And about 1/4 of the clipping load


----------



## ShadowGuy

My PRG is not striping as well. Maybe I need a real reel roller.


----------



## Thor865

Benwag said:


> First mow @.750 2 weeks after seed down. And about 1/4 of the clipping load


Excellent, is this a course you work at? What all do you overseed?


----------



## Benwag

@Thor865 Capital City Club just outside Atlanta. We only did the driving range tees (pictured) and the fairway of the chipping green this year. Seed prices ruled out the full fairway overseed this year


----------



## Herring

Pinstripe II and Pennington Fairway Supreme, cut at 1.5" with the rotary and then rolled with the 220B. Going below 1" thins it out greatly, hopefully by spring I can lower the height.


----------



## Thor865

Hapa512 said:


> Decided to cut yesterday as the rye seemed to be getting a little long and I didn't want more grass clippings.
> 
> I still need to clean up the leftover runners from scalping and verticutting. This was cut 10 days after laying down seed at 1" I still have another 22lbs of seed leftover.


Great job. If your happy with density so far it'll only get better once it tillers and I'd save the remaining seed for next fall


----------



## Hapa512

Thor865 said:


> Hapa512 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Decided to cut yesterday as the rye seemed to be getting a little long and I didn't want more grass clippings.
> 
> I still need to clean up the leftover runners from scalping and verticutting. This was cut 10 days after laying down seed at 1" I still have another 22lbs of seed leftover.
> 
> Great job. If your happy with density so far it'll only get better once it tillers and I'd save the remaining seed for next fall
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you@Thor865 I just walked the yard and because my bermuda is still pretty green, I decided I would wait until the bermuda goes a little more dormant as I know there are some areas that need more seed. You're right once it tillers I should be able to see where I really need to lay more down?
> 
> I did'nt think you could keep seed that long ? That's a good idea, god knows what the seed might cost next year ?? LOL If its anything like this season, I need all the extra seed I can get !
Click to expand...


----------



## Jacobpaschall

Drone shot of the prg. Very happy with the results this year.


----------



## stogie1020

^That looks awesome!


----------



## Lawndry List

Only my third cut with the McLane & first with the Reel Roller on it. Still figuring out how to manuver it a bit & have had some issues with the chains, but she cuts nice! We have had a lot of rain, so won't be able to mow for a day or so, but got this one in before Halloween. Champion GQ in the front, did a cheap mix of Scott's PRG & the GroundWorks PRG from Tractor Supply in the backyard as a test. Did annual ryegrass back there last year, struggling with germination/seeded a week or so after the front, should be able to cut next week.


----------



## Jacobpaschall

stogie1020 said:


> ^That looks awesome!


Thank you!! I put in a ton of work this year, I appreciate the compliment.


----------



## MasterMech

Is anybody else mowing their PRG with a Rotary? I'm having a hard time with the clippings just sticking to the mower like wet grass normally does, even 3-4 mows in. Ewings Birdie Rye blend. Soil is wet still but we're on red clay and it takes forever to dry out. Running my hand through the grass, it's damp, but not wet.

I have to stop every 2-3k sq ft and scrape or wash the underside of the deck. Scraping isn't so bad, as I only have to knock off the edges and underside quick. Using a Toro Super Bagger (similar to the Super Recyclers) with the mulch plug installed. I have tried the bag but one, I don't really want to bag, and two, it doesn't help all that much. This all makes a huge mess out of my driveway. One cleanup (pressure washer + surface cleaner) is no big deal, cleaning it up after each mow, 2x week, is a bigger deal.

It cut's fine with the reel, may try to get the reel back on it this weekend, but honestly, I'd prefer to keep it 1"-1.5" with the rotary if I can.


----------



## jim7white

I made the mistake of overseeding 5 baseball infields with annual rye grass once. Take your current problem, and multiply it by 1,000. I had to stop every 60 feet to empty the bag on the rotary and clear the deck, and it made a huge mess. The only way around it was to mow four times a week.

I now cut my prg at 3/4 with a reel, 2 or 3 times a week, no bag, and it does just fine. I recommend trying your reel at 1 inch. You can also try growth regulator on the rye once it is established.


----------



## MasterMech

@jim7white I did annual rye my first winter in SC, back in 2017. NEVER again. At least then, I had open lots behind me where I could dump the clippings. I actually bought a lawn sweeper to deal with the clumps left by my side-discharge lawn tractor.

Contemplating saddling up the sprayer this weekend with some PGR. I lose my mid-week mowing window once the clocks turn back. So, it's that, or cut entirely in the dark.


----------



## PhxHeat

@MasterMech I have BOTH Prg and Annual.

Pre-reel I used to do both with the Honda HHR rotary mower. With a reel, I still use the rotary the first few cuts til I can bring the height down. The first few to several mows with the rotary always brings the wet sloppy swamp suck. Once I can, I find dropping the height and then mowing afternoons before the next watering works the best for me. But until that time, uhgh the wet build up under the mower is a horror. haha


----------



## MasterMech

PhxHeat said:


> ... With a reel, I still use the rotary the first few cuts til I can bring the height down. The first few to several mows with the rotary always brings the wet sloppy swamp suck. Once I can, I find dropping the height and then mowing afternoons before the next watering works the best for me. But until that time, uhgh the wet build up under the mower is a horror. haha


This is exactly my situation. I have not watered since I shut down my grow-in irrigation - Oct 22nd was the last day for that. Rachio is showing Nov 10th as my next cycle but I'm going to keep an eye on that one and skip it if the algorithm doesn't do it for me. I really wouldn't mind so much except that I have a pretty large lawn for what I'm trying to do, and I really don't have anywhere on-site to dispose of the schmoo. The dog eats it if we leave it in the back beds, I'm land-locked in a sub-division, and my weekly trash pickup doesn't haul yard waste. This is a set of circumstances that I struggle with regularly for lawn care issues. :lol: I've been mowing in the late afternoon, as I typically do anyways, and I just can't seem to get it dry enough to not turn the mower into Swamp Thing. The cool, damp weather lately hasn't helped the drying process either.

For all my tears, the grass itself looks pretty darn awesome. I'm hoping it stays looking this good once the Bermuda goes fully dormant.


----------



## wiseowl

Anyone recommend some weed product ? Looks like this year's seed had a ton of weed seeds and I'd like to apply / buy something from domyown or siteone that will not harm my tif419 or kill off the prg


----------



## jim7white

Speedzone Southern is what I used previously to knock out some weeds in a PRG overseed. I wouldn't use it till the rye was really well established.


----------



## MasterMech

Update on sloppy mowing with a rotary: Last cut was much better - I only stopped to scrape quick every 5k this time. :lol:


----------



## Herring

Took the height down to 3/4", I thought it would lose color but looking good so far. Now that it's becoming fun I'm thinking I should've spent more time on the prep and sand leveling to go down to fairway height. What's everyone's fertilizer apps looking like, any water soluble fertilizer?


----------



## Hapa512

Herring said:


> Took the height down to 3/4", I thought it would lose color but looking good so far. Now that it's becoming fun I'm thinking I should've spent more time on the prep and sand leveling to go down to fairway height. What's everyone's fertilizer apps looking like, any water soluble fertilizer?


Looks great !!You did an awesome job !! What Rye grass seed did you use ?


----------



## Herring

Hapa512 said:


> Herring said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took the height down to 3/4", I thought it would lose color but looking good so far. Now that it's becoming fun I'm thinking I should've spent more time on the prep and sand leveling to go down to fairway height. What's everyone's fertilizer apps looking like, any water soluble fertilizer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great !!You did an awesome job !! What Rye grass seed did you use ?
Click to expand...

Thanks! This is Hancock Seeds Perennial Ryegrass. When it came in the mail it was Pinstripe II from Oregro Seeds. There were and still are some bare areas that I put a 5lb bag of Pennington Fairway Supreme over.


----------



## CLT49er

First time doing prg overseed. Seeing yellowing tips. Seeded around Oct 1. Frost damage? Had two frosts in past week or so. I also battle fungus with the bermuda. Last applied propoconizole maybe a month ago. And applied starter fert a week after seeding. Nothing else.







Healthier looking prg for reference.


----------



## gwolf64

Second season overseeding. This year is better than last. I learned that rye is nitrogen hungry.... Currently feeding 0.5lbs of N every other week. I like this fertilizer because it has 5% iron. Make sure to blow all of it off your dive way or you will have BB sized rust spots....

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Barenbrug-50-lbs-Barlennium-Perennial-Ryegrass-Seed-12196/314408517

https://www.siteone.com/en/511142-lesco-nos-fertilizer-33-0-3-50-lb-bag/p/678397#


----------



## Thor865

gwolf64 said:


> Second season overseeding. This year is better than last. I learned that rye is nitrogen hungry.... Currently feeding 0.5lbs of N every other week. I like this fertilizer because it has 5% iron. Make sure to blow all of it off your dive way or you will have BB sized rust spots....
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Barenbrug-50-lbs-Barlennium-Perennial-Ryegrass-Seed-12196/314408517
> 
> https://www.siteone.com/en/511142-lesco-nos-fertilizer-33-0-3-50-lb-bag/p/678397#


Very nice work. Prime example of how Rotary mowed prg looks good too. It's so easy lol


----------



## anthonybilotta

Decided to maintain my PRG this winter with the rotary mower at 1.25 instead of the Jacobsen. I am very impressed with how quickly it established itself and its color. This is my first year overseeding


----------



## rllynch1

So does everyone in here have an irrigation system? I put down my seed later than most and am still getting really good germination but having to move the sprinkler around is nearly a full time job.


----------



## wiseowl

jim7white said:


> Speedzone Southern is what I used previously to knock out some weeds in a PRG overseed. I wouldn't use it till the rye was really well established.


Thank you Jim! Just picked up the baby 20 oz from my local site one. Going to hit it half rate. Ryes doing pretty good so should be safe.

Have a pic


----------



## MasterMech

rllynch1 said:


> So does everyone in here have an irrigation system? I put down my seed later than most and am still getting really good germination but having to move the sprinkler around is nearly a full time job.


If you find a way to double the number of heads you run, you cut the workload in half.

Use two hose bibs
Use two heads daisy chained together, with smaller nozzles
Use a traveling sprinkler
Use a multi-port hose timer with the heads laced appropriately and timed to run 1 at a time.


----------



## Trippel24




----------



## Hapa512

I decided to try and make a PRG putting green being I was getting a bit bored and up for a new challenge. We'll see how this turns out ?


----------



## sykescc

Am I doing this right? First time with ryegrass overseed. But for real, this ryegrass stuff is super easy and I love the way it looks as everyone else's yard in the neighborhood goes brown for the winter.

(Please ignore the driveway that needs a pressure washing something serious. Still have construction happening in a part of the neighborhood and the dirt/mud is unavoidable when it rains. And the roadside shrub beds are HOA required to have pine straw around them which just washes away every time it rains. I've given up on trying to keep it in place.)


----------



## MasterMech

Hapa512 said:


> I decided to try and make a PRG putting green being I was getting a bit bored and up for a new challenge. We'll see how this turns out ?


I'm curious how this turns out - what height did you scalp at? Plan to maintain at?


----------



## Hapa512

MasterMech said:


> Hapa512 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to try and make a PRG putting green being I was getting a bit bored and up for a new challenge. We'll see how this turns out ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious how this turns out - what height did you scalp at? Plan to maintain at?
Click to expand...

I scalped at .00 and plan on maintaining between 0.125.-0.1875? I have no idea how this will come out having used Champion GQ PRG? Its already starting to bounce back already. I will adjust the height as needed. But I do think I may seed with creeping bent grass next spring/summer? I read it does well in the cold and warmer temps.


----------



## Herring

Now at 5/8" and want to go lower.







The short grass doesn't have a lot of weeds, but the 2.5" side yard has lots which I thought was interesting.


----------



## Kdaves12

Thor865 said:


> - If you have irrigation run light 5-10 minute cycles (depending on your head) 3-5 times a day to ensure seed stays moist


@Thor865 once the PRG is established and mowing regularly, how much watering/week do you recommend until you kill it off in the spring? Is it as demanding as Bermuda, or can it be cut back a little bit?


----------



## Thor865

Kdaves12 said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> - If you have irrigation run light 5-10 minute cycles (depending on your head) 3-5 times a day to ensure seed stays moist
> 
> 
> 
> @Thor865 once the PRG is established and mowing regularly, how much watering/week do you recommend until you kill it off in the spring? Is it as demanding as Bermuda, or can it be cut back a little bit?
Click to expand...

Bout normal watering but with temps cooling off and here at least freezing nights, and my irrigation winterized, it gets whatever Mother Nature gives it. Based on your current temp outlook.


----------



## Blake_DFWlawn

Now that the Bermuda has officially gone dormant (mostly) I see I have pretty poor germination on the PRG. Will this tiller and fill in or should I scalp and seed again?


----------



## gwolf64

Thor865 said:


> gwolf64 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Second season overseeding. This year is better than last. I learned that rye is nitrogen hungry.... Currently feeding 0.5lbs of N every other week. I like this fertilizer because it has 5% iron. Make sure to blow all of it off your dive way or you will have BB sized rust spots....
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Barenbrug-50-lbs-Barlennium-Perennial-Ryegrass-Seed-12196/314408517
> 
> https://www.siteone.com/en/511142-lesco-nos-fertilizer-33-0-3-50-lb-bag/p/678397#
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very nice work. Prime example of how Rotary mowed prg looks good too. It's so easy lol
Click to expand...

Thanks my new Gravely makes it super easy.


----------



## Kdaves12




----------



## cyrjm

CLT49er said:


> First time doing prg overseed. Seeing yellowing tips. Seeded around Oct 1. Frost damage? Had two frosts in past week or so. I also battle fungus with the bermuda. Last applied propoconizole maybe a month ago. And applied starter fert a week after seeding. Nothing else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Healthier looking prg for reference.


I'm having the same issue, from my research it seems like it could be iron deficiency since it's yellowing at the tips. I just put down some Milorganite alternative to see if it helps.


----------



## cyrjm

CLT49er said:


> First time doing prg overseed. Seeing yellowing tips. Seeded around Oct 1. Frost damage? Had two frosts in past week or so. I also battle fungus with the bermuda. Last applied propoconizole maybe a month ago. And applied starter fert a week after seeding. Nothing else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Healthier looking prg for reference.


Found this: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32917&p=450016&hilit=yellow+tips#p450016


----------



## ZachUA

Is the process the same for overseeding PRG over Zeon Zoysia during winter?

Why do you need to spray out the PRG...I always thought it just died out on its own when it got too hot for it?


----------



## Redtwin

I wouldn't recommend overseeding Zoysia with PGR. The reason for spraying it out early is it has a significant allelopathic effect and can be harsh on the existing turf when coming out of dormancy. If done correctly, Bermuda will recover fairly quickly… Zoysia not so much. Zeon… double not so much.


----------



## ZachUA

Redtwin said:


> I wouldn't recommend overseeding Zoysia with PGR. The reason for spraying it out early is it has a significant allelopathic effect and can be harsh on the existing turf when coming out of dormancy. If done correctly, Bermuda will recover fairly quickly… Zoysia not so much. Zeon… double not so much.


Ok thanks for that info!


----------



## Kdaves12




----------



## rothnic

Blake_DFWlawn said:


> Now that the Bermuda has officially gone dormant (mostly) I see I have pretty poor germination on the PRG. Will this tiller and fill in or should I scalp and seed again?


Mine is looking the same. I have been busy with other outdoor projects, so I have mostly ignored it. However, I am just starting to notice that there are a few isolated deep green patches that have filled in super quickly. These small spots is much more in line with what I was expecting, so it has given me some hope that I can salvage it. I was thinking my cheap prg seed was to blame, but seeing the spots green-up makes me think there is some kind of deficiency. See the darker green 1' diameter spot in the foreground? That has shown up in the last few days all of a sudden.



I put down starter fertilizer after overseeding, but haven't done anything since then. The spots are super small though and I don't remember spilling any extra fertilizer, but I'm not sure what else it could be. Might be worth grabbing some more fertilizer to put down, then hitting it with some iron via the backpack sprayer.

The other thing I think I would have done differently, is wait longer to overseed. I wanted to have everything established before Halloween, when people would be walking across it, but September seemed far too early for Alabama. What seemed to happen is that the bermuda recovered and grew back a little bit before becoming dormant. So, the dormant bermuda is a bit longer than I would like, which makes whatever deficiency I have look worse. However, I'm afraid to try to cut it too short again with the prg not doing fantastic.


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## Herring

I also had some yellow and color loss. I applied a balanced fertilizer timed with some rain and that really helped. Also had several frosts that contributed, and the soil is sandy and lacking nutrients.


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## MasterMech

I just hit mine with some 30-0-10 (roughly 1.0lb N/1M), also timed with rain and it seems to be perking up big time.


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## CLT49er

I am also blotchy looking. First time doing this. Think it is a result of not scalping low enough and lack of rain and no irrigation. Been manually watering.



Looks decent from far. Only prg in the hood.


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## KDF0420

Seed down on 10-1.
Small stripes are 30 day after.
Big stripes taken today.


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## rllynch1

First timer, posting mainly so I can look back at this next year and remember what I did wrong.

Put down 30lbs. of seed as well as some Scott's starter turf builder on 10/24 after "scalping" as low as my rotary will allow. Waited about 2 weeks, put down another 10 lbs. and then put down another 20 lbs. a week after that.

I really could have watered better, and I'm getting rid of my POS Scott's spreader for hopefully a Lesco this year. I think that alone will give me better coverage next time around. The edge guard made some extremely defined lines in my back yard.

I've thrown some nitrogen at it a couple times since putting seed down.


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## Kdaves12




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## Getting Fat

Kdaves12 said:


>


somebody like dark green grass...

Looks awesome


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## MasterMech

rllynch1 said:


> First timer, posting mainly so I can look back at this next year and remember what I did wrong.
> 
> Put down 30lbs. of seed as well as some Scott's starter turf builder on 10/24 after "scalping" as low as my rotary will allow. Waited about 2 weeks, put down another 10 lbs. and then put down another 20 lbs. a week after that.
> 
> I really could have watered better, and I'm getting rid of my POS Scott's spreader for hopefully a Lesco this year. I think that alone will give me better coverage next time around. The edge guard made some extremely defined lines in my back yard.
> 
> I've thrown some nitrogen at it a couple times since putting seed down.


Is that just dormant Bermuda mingling in with the PRG? A strong rake would help shift the color balance....

Also, you may be getting hurt by staging your seed apps like that. If you started in late Oct, like I did (I was about a week earlier IIRC), that means half of your seed went down after temps dropped pretty dramatically. Don't be surprised if it doesn't take off as temps come back up in the spring. Just in time for us all to start spraying out the PRG! :lol:


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## JLMTX83

Was starting to look good, and then we had some freezes in NTX, pretty sure it might have been killed off before i could really get it kicked into high gear. Wasn't able to mow for two weeks before leaving town and forgot to get PGR down, hence the mess from the ZTM. Back to "patchy blonde"


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## The_iHenry

what are you going doing to combat the PRG weeds that emerge?


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## MasterMech

The_iHenry said:


> what are you going doing to combat the PRG weeds that emerge?


I don't worry about the odd patch of Poa Annua, too expensive to try and eradicate that. I've even got a patch of Dog Fennel that I'm not worried about. All of it is going to get smoked with whatever I decide to use for the transition back to Bermuda.


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## The_iHenry

MasterMech said:


> The_iHenry said:
> 
> 
> 
> what are you going doing to combat the PRG weeds that emerge?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't worry about the odd patch of Poa Annua, too expensive to try and eradicate that. I've even got a patch of Dog Fennel that I'm not worried about. All of it is going to get smoked with whatever I decide to use for the transition back to Bermuda.
Click to expand...

Right on. I have a small patch of broadleaf weeds and I'm noticing the patch is getting bigger.


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## atlvolfan06

Striped just in time for some snow/ice in Atlanta on Sunday


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## stuartmccall

I think that this may help with getting good results from overseeding. Personally I think everyone undersells there importance of good seed genetics and relies to much on practices. It's a combination of both that gives better results. This is Australian but the principles are the same https://gilbasolutions.com/homegarden-overseeding-and-transition.html


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## Hapa512

JLMTX83 said:


> Was starting to look good, and then we had some freezes in NTX, pretty sure it might have been killed off before i could really get it kicked into high gear. Wasn't able to mow for two weeks before leaving town and forgot to get PGR down, hence the mess from the ZTM. Back to "patchy blonde"


Yeah, my Rye grass got smoked from that freeze. I still have some seed left but this Texas weather is so unpredictable that I don't want to lay it down....At this rate we could have an early spring? or long winter.....LOL


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## adidasUNT8

when and how much fertilizer are ya'll putting down?


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## MasterMech

adidasUNT8 said:


> when and how much fertilizer are ya'll putting down?


Go easy. I slapped mine with 1.0lb/N/1000sq ft and then got in trouble with Old Man WInter. We got about a week of rain, between things being soggy and a busy schedule, I had to skip a mow. My next mow wasn't terribly heavy, as it's been cold so the grass is growing pretty slow. But the day after I mowed, we had a pretty hard frost. I noticed areas that were growing the fastest, started to go dormant like they had been "shocked". The rest of the lawn is/was fine.

It's all under snow at the moment (6+" here in Greeville/Spartanburg area!) so that'll help protect it from the nights this week that will be in the high teens.

If you aren't seeing a lack of color/growth, I'd hold off on fertilizer. If your weather is mild and the grass is running out of steam, then maybe go out with .5 lb/N/1000 sq ft. If it's going to be cold in your area, pushing it with fert will likely do more harm than good.


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## adidasUNT8

MasterMech said:


> adidasUNT8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> when and how much fertilizer are ya'll putting down?
> 
> 
> 
> Go easy. I slapped mine with 1.0lb/N/1000sq ft and then got in trouble with Old Man WInter. We got about a week of rain, between things being soggy and a busy schedule, I had to skip a mow. My next mow wasn't terribly heavy, as it's been cold so the grass is growing pretty slow. But the day after I mowed, we had a pretty hard frost. I noticed areas that were growing the fastest, started to go dormant like they had been "shocked". The rest of the lawn is/was fine.
> 
> It's all under snow at the moment (6+" here in Greeville/Spartanburg area!) so that'll help protect it from the nights this week that will be in the high teens.
> 
> If you aren't seeing a lack of color/growth, I'd hold off on fertilizer. If your weather is mild and the grass is running out of steam, then maybe go out with .5 lb/N/1000 sq ft. If it's going to be cold in your area, pushing it with fert will likely do more harm than good.
Click to expand...

ok thanks for the reply. Mines just not looking healthy. a little bit of a brownish hue too it. I gave it a good watering and dropped some micro's on it a few days ago and not much of a reaction to it. temps have been mid-high 30's at night and mid 60's last couple days. It's texas so the weather fluctuates every other day.


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## MasterMech

adidasUNT8 said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> adidasUNT8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> when and how much fertilizer are ya'll putting down?
> 
> 
> 
> Go easy. I slapped mine with 1.0lb/N/1000sq ft and then got in trouble with Old Man WInter. We got about a week of rain, between things being soggy and a busy schedule, I had to skip a mow. My next mow wasn't terribly heavy, as it's been cold so the grass is growing pretty slow. But the day after I mowed, we had a pretty hard frost. I noticed areas that were growing the fastest, started to go dormant like they had been "shocked". The rest of the lawn is/was fine.
> 
> It's all under snow at the moment (6+" here in Greeville/Spartanburg area!) so that'll help protect it from the nights this week that will be in the high teens.
> 
> If you aren't seeing a lack of color/growth, I'd hold off on fertilizer. If your weather is mild and the grass is running out of steam, then maybe go out with .5 lb/N/1000 sq ft. If it's going to be cold in your area, pushing it with fert will likely do more harm than good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok thanks for the reply. Mines just not looking healthy. a little bit of a brownish hue too it. I gave it a good watering and dropped some micro's on it a few days ago and not much of a reaction to it. temps have been mid-high 30's at night and mid 60's last couple days. It's texas so the weather fluctuates every other day.
Click to expand...

When mine ran out of gas, it pretty much stopped growing and turned much lighter green, except where the dog pees. That was a big red flag on what was needed.


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## Thor865

Sneaked a mow in yesterday between snow falls. Color loss but overall doing good.


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## Redtwin

What caused those footprint marks in the backyard?


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## MasterMech

Redtwin said:


> What caused those footprint marks in the backyard?


My guess is someone went for a walk on the lawn with heavy frost.

Let's see if I'm right….


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## Thor865

MasterMech said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> What caused those footprint marks in the backyard?
> 
> 
> 
> My guess is someone went for a walk on the lawn with heavy frost.
> 
> Let's see if I'm right….
Click to expand...

Ding ding ding


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## JLMTX83

Hapa512 said:


> JLMTX83 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was starting to look good, and then we had some freezes in NTX, pretty sure it might have been killed off before i could really get it kicked into high gear. Wasn't able to mow for two weeks before leaving town and forgot to get PGR down, hence the mess from the ZTM. Back to "patchy blonde"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, my Rye grass got smoked from that freeze. I still have some seed left but this Texas weather is so unpredictable that I don't want to lay it down....At this rate we could have an early spring? or long winter.....LOL
Click to expand...

Agreed man, that's where I'm at. Debating throwing more down or just calling it a loss and waiting for spring reno time


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## cyrjm

I'm just north of Atlanta, wondering when people in the area will start nuking their rye?


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## Trippel24

cyrjm said:


> I'm just north of Atlanta, wondering when people in the area will start nuking their rye?


I nuked mine Monday last week. I want it to be completely dead by scalp early to mid March. Mainly so I can see the bermuda green up.


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## MasterMech

cyrjm said:


> I'm just north of Atlanta, wondering when people in the area will start nuking their rye?


I'm on the south side of Greenville SC and I will probably wait till mid-March or even early April. Nothing wrong with doing it early but I like a snappy transition.


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## cyrjm

MasterMech said:


> cyrjm said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just north of Atlanta, wondering when people in the area will start nuking their rye?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on the south side of Greenville SC and I will probably wait till mid-March or even early April. Nothing wrong with doing it early but I like a snappy transition.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd like to keep it green for as long as possible but I don't want the rye to hinder early season growth. Shouldn't be a problem, no?


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## CLT49er

What should I nuke my PRG with? I have celsius and certainty on hand. Use both?


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## MasterMech

cyrjm said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cyrjm said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just north of Atlanta, wondering when people in the area will start nuking their rye?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on the south side of Greenville SC and I will probably wait till mid-March or even early April. Nothing wrong with doing it early but I like a snappy transition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, I'd like to keep it green for as long as possible but I don't want the rye to hinder early season growth. Shouldn't be a problem, no?
Click to expand...

I killed mine off in early June last year and finished out the season just fine. I probably won't wait THAT long again, but there was plenty of growing season for the Bermuda.


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## MasterMech

CLT49er said:


> What should I nuke my PRG with? I have celsius and certainty on hand. Use both?


If it's still cold out (like now), I'd probably go with MSM or Negate. I did Celsius/Certainty last year and it went great. But per my comment above, I was well into warmer weather. Rye was gone and I was all Bermuda within 1-2 weeks with temps over 80.

You can do Celsius/Certainty in cooler temps, 
And you'll get a slower kill. But that's an awful expensive application just to nuke rye. If you have other weeds creeping in (as I did) then it makes more sense.


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## Redtwin

If you have your spraying technique down, I would spray it out with MSM. If not, use the Certainty. Save the Celsius in case you need it when it's hot.


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## CLT49er

Nuked prg with Certainty today. &#129394; 80 degrees today. 60-70s highs next ten days. When should I see results and scalp the rye?


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