# Army worms HELP!!!



## ocean-front

I have been reading all the previous posts on this.I am starting month 3 of the battle,I have sprayed BifenIT and Aloft the first time I noticed them.Not much effect but slowed them down,2 weeks later they were back two fold.Sprayed hose end liquid Sevin,followed up with a double dose of Bifen.Another explosion 2 weeks later so I hit them with Bayer 3and 1 at twice the amount needed for my 5000sq.ft.Along with all the liquid I have been putting down Triazicide granules after spraying.I finally put up a bug zapper to try and kill the moths,each morning I have a 2 foot diameter circle of dead moths not to mention there is not another bug within 2 miles of my house....except ARMY WORMS.Any suggestions or thoughts?


----------



## ionicatoms

Would you mind posting a picture of the moth?


----------



## ocean-front

Have to get a pic tomorrow.I know you can google it and find them,thats how I made sure I knew what I was up against.I had St.Augustine grass on another property and sod web worms were a nuisance pest with that particular grass.


----------



## Burnie

I use Bifen XTS, but a higher rate of BifenIT should work. The label says under higher pressure use 1 oz per 1000. Also do not irrigate or mow for 24 hours. Granular is not effective as it needs to be on the blades.

¹Armyworms, Cutworms, and Sod Webworms: Postpone irrigation or mowing for 24 hours after application to obtain the best possible control. Higher treatment rates (up to 1 fluid oz. per 1000 square feet) may be necessary if high pest pressure exists and if the grass is maintained taller than 1 inch

If that does not work you could try imidacloprid, which is not labeled for army worms, but is for cut worms, shot in the dark.


----------



## ionicatoms

For sod webworms, I had good luck with trichlorfon + two applications of bifenthrin sprayed two weeks apart. I finished up with an application of Acelepryn for preventive measure. See my journal for details.

Are you still finding worms or just moths?


----------



## Redtwin

I use Bifen XTS at .25oz/1000sf and it takes care of them here in the panhandle. Like @Burnie says, don't water it in, leave it on the blades at least 24 hours. Being in Florida you will go through several life cycles each year but every couple of weeks is crazy. Funny that they tore up your SA. When I had them bad, they ate my Bermuda to the ground but didn't touch the SA. It's a shame there isn't a worm that eats nothing but spurge and Virginia buttonweed.


----------



## Greendoc

Burnie said:


> I use Bifen XTS, but a higher rate of BifenIT should work. The label says under higher pressure use 1 oz per 1000. Also do not irrigate or mow for 24 hours. Granular is not effective as it needs to be on the blades.
> 
> ¹Armyworms, Cutworms, and Sod Webworms: Postpone irrigation or mowing for 24 hours after application to obtain the best possible control. Higher treatment rates (up to 1 fluid oz. per 1000 square feet) may be necessary if high pest pressure exists and if the grass is maintained taller than 1 inch
> 
> If that does not work you could try imidacloprid, which is not labeled for army worms, but is for cut worms, shot in the dark.


Imidacloprid tank mixed with either Dylox or a pyrethroid is what I use for Armyworm. it is also all about the application. More volume, more pressure and good coverage of the grass.


----------



## 440mag

ocean-front said:


> ....except ARMY WORMS.Any suggestions or thoughts?


Beneficial nematodes (trust me! 

See Army-worms in menu on left side of page: https://www.arbico-organics.com/category/beneficial-nematodes-omri-listed

My own success story, here: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=15013&p=242893&hilit=Wire+worm#p242893


----------



## ocean-front

Thanks for the info.Redtwin how often do you apply Bifen?You are in about the same zone as me in Fl on the east coast.I have bermuda now, I had SA at a house before we moved here.I have the same sandy soil issues you have since the beach is our backyard beyond the bulkhead.Any other info you can pass along would be a great help.I started this project a year ago and got wiped out by Dorian and a couple of NorEasters so it has been a challenge to get a couple of years of establishment.


----------



## 1FASTSS

I'm a bit further south being west of Tampa but they were horrible here last year and I've already seen them twice...once in May and again a couple weeks back. I used Telstar P (same as Bifen IT) because that's what I had. I had to spray every 1-2 weeks for maybe 6 weeks totals (3-4 times) until they were gone...but their really never gone. They took out a couple major sections of the turf right before winter so that sucked...lol

I have since gone to Bifen XTS with better results. Good luck with your battle. Just keep checking and spraying as needed. Some spots I had to treat more often.


----------



## ocean-front

I walked the yard this morning found 25 or 30 small ones,maybe 1/2 inch or so long.Ordered a qt of Bifen XTS since thats what has been the go for treatment.Plan on using 1 oz per gallon and treating every 10 days for a month.I think the egg to larve stage takes 10-14 days so that would cover any unhatched eggs that pop up in-between.Seems like 2-3 weeks and they reappear.


----------



## 1FASTSS

Greendoc said:


> Imidacloprid tank mixed with either Dylox or a pyrethroid is what I use for Armyworm. it is also all about the application. More volume, more pressure and good coverage of the grass.


@Greendoc

This had me thinking some....

Could you use dominion 2l mixed with Permethrin and get the same results? I'm assuming the Permethrin is the quick kill unitl the Imidacloporid in absorbed into the leaf tissues? I already use dominion for subterranean's issues.

Might last a little longer being in the leaf and get a better kill and longer kill than spraying every couple of weeks? Especially with them lasting for a couple months here in SW FL.


----------



## Burnie

ocean-front said:


> Plan on using 1 oz per gallon and treating every 10 days for a month.


Might want to rethink that rate for Bifen XTS, it is over 3 times stronger than BifenIT.
Label says
0.07-0.15 fl. ozs. per 1000 square feet (max on label is .30 fl. ozs. per 1000 square feet)

So if you use 1 oz that is over 6 times what you need to apply, and over 3 times the max label rate.

Please read the label and be safe. :thumbup:


----------



## Redtwin

Burnie said:


> ocean-front said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plan on using 1 oz per gallon and treating every 10 days for a month.
> 
> 
> 
> Might want to rethink that rate for Bifen XTS, it is over 3 times stronger than BifenIT.
> Label says
> 0.07-0.15 fl. ozs. per 1000 square feet (max on label is .30 fl. ozs. per 1000 square feet)
> 
> So if you use 1 oz that is over 6 times what you need to apply, and over 3 times the max label rate.
> 
> Please read the label and be safe. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Yes! The XTS is much stronger. I apply at .25oz/1000sf which is just under the maximum rate.


----------



## Brou

Burnie said:


> ocean-front said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plan on using 1 oz per gallon and treating every 10 days for a month.
> 
> 
> 
> Might want to rethink that rate for Bifen XTS, it is over 3 times stronger than BifenIT.
> Label says
> 0.07-0.15 fl. ozs. per 1000 square feet (max on label is .30 fl. ozs. per 1000 square feet)
> 
> So if you use 1 oz that is over 6 times what you need to apply, and over 3 times the max label rate.
> 
> Please read the label and be safe. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

To add to that, he should also calculate how much he needs per 1k sq ft not per gallon.


----------



## ocean-front

I used Bifen IT at 1oz per gallon,its what I have on hand.I am waiting for the Bifen XTS I ordered to arrive for the next app in 2 weeks and will follow up at the suggested rate for a couple of weeks if needed.


----------



## jpos34

@Redtwin i found this at my local TSC it appears to be the same as Bifen IT , can you confirm. I dont want to wait for shipping. if this is this same as Bifen IT, what rate per 1k would you use to get comparable to the Bifen XTS?


----------



## Amoo316

jpos34 said:


> @Redtwin i found this at my local TSC it appears to be the same as Bifen IT , can you confirm. I dont want to wait for shipping. if this is this same as Bifen IT, what rate per 1k would you use to get comparable to the Bifen XTS?


The difference between Bifen I/T and Biffen XTS is I/T is water based and mixed to a lower concentration. XTS is oil based and mixed to a stronger application. At the end of the day, you still create a .03% or .06% solution. Both will do the exact same job, I/T is safe for indoor use, XTS is not. Outside of that, their effect in your yard will be the same. I did the math in another thread but the savings is about $.05/K using the XTS.

Rate for I/T is 1oz/K to make the solution


----------



## Ware

jpos34 said:


> @Redtwin i found this at my local TSC it appears to be the same as Bifen IT , can you confirm. I dont want to wait for shipping. if this is this same as Bifen IT, what rate per 1k would you use to get comparable to the Bifen XTS?


I would not mess with trying to convert Bifen I/T rates to Bifen XTS rates. I would just use the label rate for that product.

Here are the Bifen I/T (7.9% Bifenthrin) label rates for lawns.


----------



## jpos34

Thanks for the help @Ware @Amoo316, I wanted to get this taken care of today. I had them about a month ago and just used a granular from Lowes and yard came back fine, but wanted to try something different this time.


----------



## Jagermeister

Redtwin said:


> I use Bifen XTS at .25oz/1000sf and it takes care of them here in the panhandle. Like @Burnie says, don't water it in, leave it on the blades at least 24 hours. Being in Florida you will go through several life cycles each year but every couple of weeks is crazy. Funny that they tore up your SA. When I had them bad, they ate my Bermuda to the ground but didn't touch the SA. It's a shame there isn't a worm that eats nothing but spurge and Virginia buttonweed.


I am a newbie when it comes to lawn pest control. I have been doing monthly Bifen XTS and quarterly Imidacloprid apps. I can't find any evidence of worms or crickets and haven't seen any grubs.

Is there a way to prevent / control worms and sub-surface pests with the same application of Bifen? What is confusing me is the label states to wait 24 hours to water in to control worms while to control / prevent subsurface pests, you need to water in right away. If I wait 24 hours and then water in, will it also be effective on the subsurface pests?


----------



## Amoo316

jpos34 said:
 

> Thanks for the help @Ware @Amoo316, I wanted to get this taken care of today. I had them about a month ago and just used a granular from Lowes and yard came back fine, but wanted to try something different this time.


The rate at which we're seeing them all throughout the South and Southeast, I would assume monthly apps are going to be required for a lot of folks who don't normally spray monthly already.


----------



## jpos34

Can Bifen be sprayed with the morning dew like I do with my PGR? Better yet can it be mixed with my PGR that's due as well? or should hold off on PGR due to not much green tissue left from the worms eating it?


----------



## Redtwin

Sorry for the delayed response. The label rate on either should work just fine. Just know that with webworms, their life-cycle is anywhere from 6 to 10 weeks depending on the environment so you will most certainly have to do multiple apps. I feel that's why most of do the monthly apps outdoors.

Also, I typically mix Bifen XTS with every second or third PGR app.


----------



## Tate549

@Ware In the directions it says to water after application but I keep seeing posts saying not to water it in. Which one is recommended?


----------



## Ware

Tate549 said:


> @Ware In the directions it says to water after application but I keep seeing posts saying not to water it in. Which one is recommended?


Bifenthrin? You would want to follow Note 1 on the label and postpone irrigation or mowing for 24 hours after application to obtain the best possible control.










Here is an excerpt from Solutions Pest & Lawn about how Bifenthrin works:


----------



## Tate549

@Ware Ok thanks. I used the Compare N Save Bifenthrin today and called them to make sure about the irrigation afterwards and was told to immediately water it in. I thought I had it timed out because about an hour after I applied it it rained about a 1/4. So basically what I applied today is wasted it looks like.

I'm also seeing that the TTTF will recover and some say it won't. Any thoughts on this?


----------



## Ware

I moved this thread over to Pest Control.


----------



## MasterMech

Amoo316 said:


> jpos34 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Redtwin i found this at my local TSC it appears to be the same as Bifen IT , can you confirm. I dont want to wait for shipping. if this is this same as Bifen IT, what rate per 1k would you use to get comparable to the Bifen XTS?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difference between Bifen I/T and Biffen XTS is I/T is water based and mixed to a lower concentration. XTS is oil based and mixed to a stronger application. At the end of the day, you still create a .03% or .06% solution. Both will do the exact same job, I/T is safe for indoor use, XTS is not. Outside of that, their effect in your yard will be the same. I did the math in another thread but the savings is about $.05/K using the XTS.
> 
> Rate for I/T is 1oz/K to make the solution
Click to expand...

I/T will not smell like XTS does. I don't mind it but the last thing I want is complaints from neighbors or the "membership" at my club. 1oz per 1k is sweet too. No problem remembering that rate, even with my fuzz-brain.


----------



## Ware

MasterMech said:


> I/T will not smell like XTS does. I don't mind it but the last thing I want is complaints from neighbors or the "membership" at my club. 1oz per 1k is sweet too. No problem remembering that rate, even with my fuzz-brain.


I put a gallon of XTS on my DMO Labor Day Sale order to see what the hype is all about, but there is some truth to the simplicity of the 1oz rate. I like it because I can dump a whole gallon in my sprayer without measuring. That gets me around 0.84 oz/M.


----------



## Lawn Whisperer

I mowed the lawn and noticed that there were a lot of moths (small or young ones) were coming from the lawn. Also noticed that the lawn were yellow/brown in certain areas, looked like it was drought stress or maybe even start of a fungus. The weather started to cool off and the lawn has sufficient water from the recent rain and watering. So I decided to do a soap test to see if fall armyworms were in my lawn. Pic below is what came up from the ground.

I applied Imidacloprid in mid June and will apply it again next week. For now I'll plan on applying bifenthrin late this afternoon and no water/no mowing for at least 24hrs.


----------



## Frankzzz

Doesn't Bifen XTS also have a longer residual than I/T?


----------

