# Killing Invincible ̶C̶r̶a̶b̶g̶r̶a̶s̶s̶ KR Bluestem



## sam36 (Apr 14, 2020)

Moved to a new place back in Nov. 2018. Spent 2019 following the "bermuda bible". Noticed crabgrass slowing taking over a few areas and Celsius only seemed to stunt it. Didn't really care since winter, from what I've read, would kill crabgrass. But not in south Texas apparently. It got down to 28 degrees a few times. Enough to kill the top, but not the roots. During January, I noticed many places where the brown mats of crabgrass could be lifted right out the soil easily. I left it alone since I thought it was dead... but it wasn't. So now my bermuda is coming out of dormancy as well as last year's crabgrass, plus a fresh batch of crabgrass seedlings that have survived prodiamine.

So some pictures. I did an app of quinclorac at the 1lb/acre rate with .72 gallons per 1k sqft plus used 1oz of the MSO duo stick.

After 7 days was thinking it did nothing:


And a day later it magically started going "brown":


I thought it was brown, but on closer look, it was just turning red/purple. Wasn't sure if I was winning after all:


So after a couple of weeks, I did another app of quinclorac with a med app of Celsius. And a week later, it's as strong as ever:



In some areas, there's a serious mess:


In some places, my yard looks green, but once you get up close, you realized it is solid crabgrass:



This was my "test" spot. I've literally drowned this spot several times with quinclorac. The leaves die off, but then it sprouts back from the center mass:



So what to do?! I thought about getting one of those propane powered weed burner/torch things. That is until while getting pictures for this post, I realized that nearly 50% of my front yard is crabgrass. There's still plenty of it hidden under the bermuda thatch in some areas, you can only tell because you start seeing the crabgrass seed heads sticking up higher than everything else after 5 days or so.

I've looked at other chemicals. Nothing seems promising, but I did see that I can get some MSMA. That looks like it can really kill some stuff if you are not careful... sounds good. I'm thinking a 1.5oz rate with 1 gallon over 1k sqft? Should I mix anything with it? Celsius, MSO, fertilizer? I still don't think it will completely kill it. So I think, spray it, wait a week, hopefully it will brown up nicely. Then I'll get a weed burner and go at it with that as well. Sound like a good idea?


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## erdons (Apr 3, 2018)

I had a 2 year battle with crabgrass and dallisgrass I felt like it always laughed at what I threw at it until I mixed a heavy load of glyphosate, celcius, msma and spot prayed it, I think I have 99.9% of it gone now.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

That is not Crabgrass. That is Bluestem. Heavy rate of Glyphosate + Fusilade to spot kill. Celsius + Revolver or Image + Revolver and reel mowing to selectively control


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## sam36 (Apr 14, 2020)

erdons said:


> I had a 2 year battle with crabgrass and dallisgrass I felt like it always laughed at what I threw at it until I mixed a heavy load of glyphosate, celcius, msma and spot prayed it, I think I have 99.9% of it gone now.


That sounds intense! That's an expensive load of chemicals. At that rate, seems like one might as well just spray straight diesel, or would that not even kill it?!

I find it confusing that both celcius and quinclorac advertise that they control crabgrass, yet they clearly don't. Even more confusing, several members here state that quinclorac "smoked" their crabgrass problem. How is that?

I've still got my eye on msma. Seems like a cheap way to go about. I've got a small propane pencil torch, think I'll try burning a few clumps of crabgrass with that today. Then I'll continuously water and fertilize the area for a week or so and see what comes back. If that seems promising, I'll get a bigger torch and a 20 gallon propane bottle.


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## erdons (Apr 3, 2018)

Just do glyphosate I'm sure it will kill it by itself. Celcius and MSMA added in was me just trying to hurt that dam grass so bad.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

If celisus and quinclorac didn't get the crabgrass, it wasn't crabgrass.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Movingshrub said:


> If celisus and quinclorac didn't get the crabgrass, it wasn't crabgrass.


I was thinking the same thing because unless I am mistaken, there shouldn't be any mature crabgrass growing this time of year.


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## sam36 (Apr 14, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> > If celisus and quinclorac didn't get the crabgrass, it wasn't crabgrass.
> ...


In south Texas, it did not get cold enough over winter to kill. It's still the same stuff from last year. It's crabgrass I'm almost sure, though I can try to get some more pictures.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> If celisus and quinclorac didn't get the crabgrass, it wasn't crabgrass.


+1


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

Greendoc above said that it's Bluestem. If what you're doing isn't working, it's time to try out something different.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

There is always just digging it up. Not a fun day, given how much you have, but effective. 
Any crabgrass patches I find in summer I end up just digging up. A screwdriver or one of those wooden handled weed tools does the trick without much work. I sit on the ground with a podcast or music on, bring a cardboard box to toss the dug up weeds in, maybe a beer (ok, usually a beer), and spend the after dinner hour getting my hands dirty while the kids play.


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## sam36 (Apr 14, 2020)

Not sure what Bluestem is, but googling for pictures shows something not at all like what I got. Here's a more "virgin" sample, one that hasn't been coated in herbicides multiple times. I did just mow, so the seed heads are missing, but they look similar to bermuda seed heads, only longer.

This specimen was there this time last year, so it could be several years old for all I know:



Dug it up



Washed the roots


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Man that looks VERY similar to dallisgrass


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## bhutchinson87 (Jun 25, 2018)

Not sure where you were looking for pictures of bluestem but I agree with Greendoc. You could always let it produce a seed head and then you will know 100%.

https://aggieturf.tamu.edu/turfgrass-weeds/king-ranch-bluestem/


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## sam36 (Apr 14, 2020)

bhutchinson87 said:


> Not sure where you were looking for pictures of bluestem but I agree with Greendoc. You could always let it produce a seed head and then you will know 100%.
> 
> https://aggieturf.tamu.edu/turfgrass-weeds/king-ranch-bluestem/


Well that looks very convincing! Let me look some more. If it is bluestem, should I be happy or sad(er)?


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## bhutchinson87 (Jun 25, 2018)

You should be happy because once you know what it is you can develop an effective plan to remove/kill it.


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## sam36 (Apr 14, 2020)

I'll see if I can hunt down some with seed heads later today. I think I saw some in a field next to me. Got horses in it though, they might have ate it already.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Your location is in and of itself ID. Bothriochloa spp or Bluestems are common in Texas and Hawaii. 
Growth habit is another giveaway. That stuff is everywhere here in Hawaii. Becomes the ground cover in yards, parks and roadsides here.


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## sam36 (Apr 14, 2020)

Ok, more than likely bluestem. Feel like an idiot now. First pics were out of focus, so just ripped off the heads and took them inside. The color alone is an id:













So what now? I've already ordered MSMA, I can probably cancel, but I've read it works pretty good on dallisgrass (another issue) and has some "effect" on bluestem. Or should I try something else? Still thinking of a propane torch for the thicker areas...


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Propane torch if you can. MSMA burns back the leaves but does not stop the seeds from repopulating. That is another point. if you have Bluestem, Prodiamine as a split application at the Bermuda allowed rate is a good idea.


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## Buster (Apr 3, 2020)

I've been spot treating my Dallis and Crabgrass with Image and it's working beautifully. It's taking 2-3 treatments, 2 weeks apart... but it's doing it!


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## sam36 (Apr 14, 2020)

Greendoc said:


> Propane torch if you can. MSMA burns back the leaves but does not stop the seeds from repopulating. That is another point. if you have Bluestem, Prodiamine as a split application at the Bermuda allowed rate is a good idea.


Yes the bluestem really hates the msma lol!



Its been two weeks since the app and hasn't even rained once. Bermuda seemed to take it fine, though some areas are going brown now, probably due to lack of water though. Went for 1oz and 1 gallon per 1k sqft, but I think I ended up using around .8 or .9. It's so dry now, not sure if I should be burning stuff with a torch.. but I might.


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