# newly seeded lawn with poa annua actively growing



## mrsirmrman (Apr 15, 2018)

Planted blackjack bermuda grass seed 2 weeks ago (So. Cal.). 1300 sq ft lawn. Poa Annua is starting to show up (about 10% of lawn). I have Prodiamine 65 WG and Certainty. Have not applied any pre m since I knew I would be seeding. Could not find any information on how soon I could apply Certainty to control poa to the lawn. Tallest areas are just under 1". Still have some spots where germination is still happening. It has been a struggle to get this far. Not expecting an immaculate lawn like most of the ones I have seen here. Just want the kiddos to have a decent looking yard to play around in. I know my lawn size is small and would not mind hand weeding but my back would not like that one bit.

Thank you all!

I have already learned so much from you all.

Forgot to mention: soil temps during the day have been about mid 70s.


----------



## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

First off Welcome to TLF.
I have alot of questions but I think you need to read this article first.
It will give you alot of information that you need and it really helped me last year when I planted.
Establishing Bermuda From Seed

Starting a yard from seed is not for the faint of heart. I had serious issues but finally succeded.
Long story short 
You are going to have to wait at least a month from now before you can apple any post emergent to your yard. Normally you can apply post emergent 2-4 weeks after it has reached emergent level. This is *not* 1-3 weeks after germination. Emergence is when the majority of your bermuda has tillered once or even twice.
With that said the longer you wait before applying the better
please read the article. DO NOT USE THE PRE EMERGENT. most DNA pre emergent should only be applied on established turf.
Certainty according to the article can be used at 1.25 oz/acre as early as 1 week post emergence.
This is an extremely small amount and would require a gram scale
If my math is correct it would require 0.85 grams per gallon of water to cover 1000 square feet.
Drive or generic Quinclorac has been shown to have the least amount of damage to seedling bermuda


----------



## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Just to clarify Telly's post, the quinclorac won't control the poa but would be an option for controlling broadleaf weeds and crabgrass.

I think revolver can be used a 2-3weeks after emergence and would control Poa Annua.


----------



## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> Just to clarify Telly's post, the quinclorac won't control the poa but would be an option for controlling broadleaf weeds and crabgrass.
> 
> I think revolver can be used a 2-3weeks after emergence and would control Poa Annua.


Thanks


----------



## mrsirmrman (Apr 15, 2018)

Thanks for the help. Lots of good information in that link. I'd be glad to answer any questions you might have. Was not planning on using the previous emergent until September. Inherited a nightmare of a front and back yard. Tons of weeds. It's been alot of work and frustration but I'm starting to see the light.

Trying to be cautious with my seeding project as this will be my 2nd attempt. Sod is out of my budget right now


----------



## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Since its your second attempt what did you do to have it fail?
Trust me it cant be any worse than my renovation. The key is dont give up. Bermuda is a beast and it will survive and live.
Do you have alot of trees?
Do you have an irrigation system?
What is your watering schedule?
I dont know the weather in that part of california since Cali has a ton of micro climates.
And finally Pictures would be nice.
No pictures = It didnt happen. lol lol lol Just kidding


----------



## mrsirmrman (Apr 15, 2018)

Long story short. Paid someone to level and seed yard since my back was acting up at the time. I was concerned that it was too late in the season to seed but was told "this is so Cal man. The grass grows all year long here". Should have gone with my gut feeling and waited, but figured they knew what they were doing. To their credit, they did do a good job....just too late in the season. Grew a ton of weeds. Re did everything myself. Now that the weather is warmer it's coming in nicely. Hand watering 3x a day (I have an awesome neighbor that helps) 2 small trees. Yard gets full sun most of the day.

I'll post some pics tomorrow if time permits.

Whatever you can do wrong to bermuda, I've done it!


----------



## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Tellycoleman said:


> First off Welcome to TLF.
> I have alot of questions but I think you need to read this article first.
> It will give you alot of information that you need and it really helped me last year when I planted.
> Establishing Bermuda From Seed


I can't tell you how many times I read that acticle from University of Arkansas. I followed it step by step during my renovation last year and it paid off big time. I'm glad you found it, I looked for it a while back and my link was dead.


----------



## mrsirmrman (Apr 15, 2018)

There she is. I should have taken before pictures...nasty!

The bare spots are very thin right now. The green patches along the left wall are all that was left from previous attempt at seeding


----------



## raldridge2315 (Jul 1, 2017)

What you need is water, fertilizer, sunshine, sharp mower blades and time. This is a good start. There is enough here that it will fill in nicely. The shade from the patio cover may be troublesome. Does this area get at least six hours of direct sun?


----------



## mrsirmrman (Apr 15, 2018)

raldridge2315 said:


> What you need is water, fertilizer, sunshine, sharp mower blades and time. This is a good start. There is enough here that it will fill in nicely. The shade from the patio cover may be troublesome. Does this area get at least six hours of direct sun?


Not quite 6 hours in that spot. 4 sounds more like it. Not sure what other grass types will fit in well. I see "sun and shade" mixes around as well as Marathon types.


----------



## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Generally speaking, shade and Bermuda are like oil and water. Bermuda needs sunlight, and lots of it.


----------



## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Yes. Common, seeded varieties, Tifdwarf, Tifway, and Tifgreen do badly in shade. The fact that he has a solid wall around the yard makes things harder. How is your TifTuff in partial shade? One of my sod grower friends was considering bringing it to Hawaii. Then he told me about how it tends to get overgrown if not in drought conditions. I nixed that because everyone that installs sod has an irrigation system and the people controlling that irrigation system cannot grasp the concept of turning off irrigation if it is raining several inches per week every week or not watering more than once or twice a week if the irrigation is needed. I could see it turning into a thatchy hard to manage mess. Most people hate Bermuda in Hawaii because they over water and put on too much Nitrogen.


----------



## mrsirmrman (Apr 15, 2018)

Just wanted to give a cinco de Mayo update!


----------



## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Looking good. What approach did you take to weed management?


----------



## mrsirmrman (Apr 15, 2018)

I still have some new grass sprouting up so for the time being I'm going to hand pick the few broadleaf weeds that pop up. As for the poa... it's starting to be more noticeable due to the seed heads. I'm going to wait and see how they do thru summer. Planning on putting down some prodia mine in about September. I'll take any suggestions!


----------



## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Dumb question - do you NEED to do anything about the Poa Annua? In SC it dies odd when it gets hot out, so my thought is wait it out, and put down PreM in the fall and spring next year.


----------



## mrsirmrman (Apr 15, 2018)

I guess I was just a bit paranoid. This yard had tons of it. But yeah that's the plan. Watch it die off with the he heat, let the bermuda do its thing to fill in the bare spots and apply pre m in the fall. Currently cutting at 2 inches. I read somewhere new bermuda should not be cut any shorter for the 1st season. I can only go as low as 1 inch with my mower.


----------



## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

mrsirmrman said:


> I guess I was just a bit paranoid. This yard had tons of it. But yeah that's the plan. Watch it die off with the he heat, let the bermuda do its thing to fill in the bare spots and apply pre m in the fall. Currently cutting at 2 inches. I read somewhere new bermuda should not be cut any shorter for the 1st season. I can only go as low as 1 inch with my mower.


Feel free to mow your Bermuda as low as you can go with your current equipment. I guarantee you, it can be mowed lower than 2" it's first year.


----------



## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

SCGrassMan said:


> Dumb question - do you NEED to do anything about the Poa Annua? In SC it dies odd when it gets hot out, so my thought is wait it out, and put down PreM in the fall and spring next year.


100% with this ^^ .


----------



## mrsirmrman (Apr 15, 2018)

Colonel K0rn said:


> mrsirmrman said:
> 
> 
> > I guess I was just a bit paranoid. This yard had tons of it. But yeah that's the plan. Watch it die off with the he heat, let the bermuda do its thing to fill in the bare spots and apply pre m in the fall. Currently cutting at 2 inches. I read somewhere new bermuda should not be cut any shorter for the 1st season. I can only go as low as 1 inch with my mower.
> ...


Nice! I still have some areas where the grass has not grown tall enough to be mowed at my current HOC of 2". Should I wait until those spots catch up to slowly bring down my HOC? Or just start bring it down every couple of days as needed? I just picked up a push reel mower for cheap on craigslist. But still 1" on max low (fiskars stay sharp model)

Thanks everyone for your input! I can't wait to enjoy a brew while watching my kids play in the yard.


----------



## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Mow it now. Before you know it, you're going to be searching for a gas-powered reel because the grass has gotten so thick, and you're getting washboarding cuts.


----------



## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> mrsirmrman said:
> 
> 
> > I guess I was just a bit paranoid. This yard had tons of it. But yeah that's the plan. Watch it die off with the he heat, let the bermuda do its thing to fill in the bare spots and apply pre m in the fall. Currently cutting at 2 inches. I read somewhere new bermuda should not be cut any shorter for the 1st season. I can only go as low as 1 inch with my mower.
> ...


I started cutting mine at 1/2" :bandit: and finished the season at 5/8". If you have the equipment and a decent cultivar it will be fine.


----------



## mrsirmrman (Apr 15, 2018)

Had to give an update. It's been pretty hot around here. I'm watching a couple of spots that seem a bit stressed. Mowing at 2" every 3 days. It's been filling I nicely. I noticed in another post someone asked about lack of stolons in their blackjack bermuda... I've noticed I don't he see any either? Oh, and Ware if you see this... I've got a small patch of buffalo grass in my front yard from last season I was testing. I like it, just not sure if I'm going to keep itor let the bermuda thats already there spread and fill in.


----------



## Smokindog (Jun 20, 2018)

Here's some good info on herbicides and seeding Bermuda

http://usgatero.msu.edu/v05/n03.pdf


----------



## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> Yes. Common, seeded varieties, Tifdwarf, Tifway, and Tifgreen do badly in shade. The fact that he has a solid wall around the yard makes things harder. How is your TifTuff in partial shade? One of my sod grower friends was considering bringing it to Hawaii. Then he told me about how it tends to get overgrown if not in drought conditions. I nixed that because everyone that installs sod has an irrigation system and the people controlling that irrigation system cannot grasp the concept of turning off irrigation if it is raining several inches per week every week or not watering more than once or twice a week if the irrigation is needed. I could see it turning into a thatchy hard to manage mess. Most people hate Bermuda in Hawaii because they over water and put on too much Nitrogen.


Just saw your question. I think I have ran the irrigation twice this season when we had high temps and almost no rain over two weeks. I think Tiftuf does well in the shade but it isn't fescue by any means.


----------



## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

@Movingshrub Thanks for your feedback. I could just imagine what the Tiftuff would do if a fool irrigated it with 2" of irrigation per week and kept on spreading high N granules. Thank goodness it is not fescue. Fescue gets really touchy if it is warm at night. Bermuda loves heat.


----------



## Crabbychas (Apr 25, 2018)

mrsirmrman said:


> Had to give an update. It's been pretty hot around here. I'm watching a couple of spots that seem a bit stressed. Mowing at 2" every 3 days. It's been filling I nicely. I noticed in another post someone asked about lack of stolons in their blackjack bermuda... I've noticed I don't he see any either?


Probably me. I seeded my yard with Blackjack at the beginning of May and I started seeing a couple small stolons pretty soon but then they stopped growing. I am starting to see them again but most of them are still very short and only have a couple of nodes at most.


----------



## mrsirmrman (Apr 15, 2018)

Smokindog said:


> Here's some good info on herbicides and seeding Bermuda
> 
> http://usgatero.msu.edu/v05/n03.pdf


Thanks! Saving this!


----------



## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> @Movingshrub Thanks for your feedback. I could just imagine what the Tiftuff would do if a fool irrigated it with 2" of irrigation per week and kept on spreading high N granules. Thank goodness it is not fescue. Fescue gets really touchy if it is warm at night. Bermuda loves heat.


Based on how much N I was applying (1lb a week) and all the rain, I can tell you that it grows like crazy. I was cutting every other day.


----------

