# Reviving a neglected, shady, and wet back yard



## WDE46 (Mar 11, 2019)

I bought my first home in October of 2018 and it's finally time for me to get to work outside after having done so much work inside during the fall and winter. I've been reading a lot on lawn care and some posts around here and about various products to put on my lawn. I'm a bit stuck in deciding what to do and in what order. I want to make sure I don't shoot myself in the foot with what I'm planning so I hope some of you can review my rough plan and approve or offer critques.

Current conditions:

Front Yard consists of 75% dormant bermuda. The rest is weeds of various types (clover, wild onion, maybe dollar weed). I haven't completely identified all the weeds. It's a bit long.

Back yard is probably 90% weeds (lots of broadleaf and a fat looking grass I haven't identified, not sure if it's a crabgrass or not. It has tiny white hairs like you'd fine on an insect's body). There are several large pine trees nearby and there has been pine straw on the yard for who knows how long. The yard doesn't get much direct sun. It stays very wet. I'm assuming it's acidic from the pine straw over the years, but I'm not sure.

My plan:

So unfortunately I didn't know about preemergents when I bought the home, otherwise I would've put that down in the fall and even earlier this year.

1. Currently dethatching the entire lawn (this is back breaking combined with clearing the woods out so I can build a fence soon, gains me 300-500 square feet of lawn WOOO) by hand. Don't worry, I enjoy the exercise. Also removing as much of the pine needles as I can from the surface.
2. Plan to mow with my 21" rotary on the lowest setting possible.
3. Preemergent on the entire yard. I've got a bag of Hi-yield with Dimension that I will put out at half recommended yearly rate. Will this prevent bermuda from spreading in my back yard? I don't want to hinder its progress this spring/summer.
4.Water or let it rain (probably will rain again soon).
5. Apply Celsius (have a bottle on the way) over entire lawn at 0.085 oz level once it's consistently above 40F all day and night. I plan to use a surfactant to maximize effectiveness and a dye to keep track of the application.
6. Apply fertilizer at 0.5 lb Nitrogen per thousand sq ft

I feel like this is all I can do aside from nuking it all. Will the bermuda in my back yard emerge after spending likely years under weeds?


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

I think your biggest issue is going to be the amount of sunlight in the backyard. If it doesn't get much sun and stays wet the Bermuda will have a hard time thriving.


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## WDE46 (Mar 11, 2019)

That is one of my biggest concerns. I could try a shade tolerant grass but idk if I want to do that this year. I researched some shade tolerant Bermuda (Tifgrand)and thought about sprigging the back yard but I'd need to kill everything and till, correct? Also I'm not sure how many sprigs I'd need or if that's feasible for my lawn.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

I'm gonna phone a friend on this one.

@Tellycoleman what would you advise in this situation?


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

In the meantime, the Bermuda has not struggled because of the weeds. The fact that you have 75% Bermuda in the front yard and 10% in the back tells me that it is not a weed issue. It is a sun issue. Bermuda will take over everything if it has enough sun. You may have to look at a cool season shade tolerant grass for the back yard. I have a large chunk of my front yard that is healthy fescue because it is under trees. The rest of the yard is Bermuda because it gets lots of sun all day.


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## BlakeG (Jul 17, 2018)

TN Hawkeye said:


> I'm gonna phone a friend on this one.
> 
> @Tellycoleman what would you advise in this situation?


Cut down all the trees! :nod:


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

BlakeG said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
> 
> 
> > I'm gonna phone a friend on this one.
> ...


Man, how many different screen names does Telly go by?


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## BlakeG (Jul 17, 2018)

Lol. I subscribe to his wisdom also. I do agree that light is the biggest issue in this case. I'm not convinced that even a shade tolerant Bermuda would thrive.


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

I agree with others that your backyard is probably a sunlight issue. For the front yard it sounds like you have a good plan. If you know the backyard doesn't get a lot of sunlight, I would caution against killing all the weeds and spraying pre m until the fall. Otherwise you will end up with a mud pit all summer long and if it is sloped then you will have some erosion issues and possibly lose some organic topsoil. If you waited until the fall before killing the backyard weeds then you could try doing a shade tolerant cool season turf renovation. Another option is to use pre m on the backyard to keep summer annuals at bay and see if you could get the Bermuda to spread given the low sunlight. If it looks like it will spread then you could kill the perennial weeds.


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## WDE46 (Mar 11, 2019)

All good responses.



TN Hawkeye said:


> In the meantime, the Bermuda has not struggled because of the weeds. The fact that you have 75% Bermuda in the front yard and 10% in the back tells me that it is not a weed issue. It is a sun issue. Bermuda will take over everything if it has enough sun. You may have to look at a cool season shade tolerant grass for the back yard. I have a large chunk of my front yard that is healthy fescue because it is under trees. The rest of the yard is Bermuda because it gets lots of sun all day.


Main point seems to be this one. I think it seems reasonable to say that the lack of sun could be primarily responsible for the condition. It makes perfect sense. I remember as a teen me and my dad could not get rid of some Bermuda patches in his high sun fescue lawn.

I also did not consider the worst case for my backyard as a WWI mud pit if the Bermuda decided not to grow. I'll have to decide if that risk is worth taking to spray Celsius.

So I think I know a couple things for sure right now: continue with dethatch+scalp and premergent. I can then at least use my Celsius on the front lawn. That'll get me to or through this weekend when I'd like to apply Celsius.

So would the best strategy for the back yard be to scalp, preemergent, and fertilize and just hope for the best? Of course I'd try to pull what weeds I can and keep them cut way low. If no progress is made then what are he steps to kill it and establish a more suitable grass?


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

My two cents is address the water, right off the bat. You're not gonna grow anything but weeds otherwise.


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## WDE46 (Mar 11, 2019)

SCGrassMan said:


> My two cents is address the water, right off the bat. You're not gonna grow anything but weeds otherwise.


I think it'll be vastly improved just by the dethatching and mowing it short. We'll see. The front yard needs a French drain and some material to fill in a big low spot. The back probably needs another French drain on the low side to carry water out back where the storm drain leads into a drainage area.

Is there anything other than dethatching and aerating I can do to help drainage?


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

French drains and lots and lots of sand.


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## WDE46 (Mar 11, 2019)

Thought so. I think leveling the back yard is a bit too much this year but maybe I can get a drain or two installed.

Anyway let's assume this year doesn't work out with the back yard. What are some good grasses for my location? I've been looking up shade tolerant grasses.

A couple warm grasses claim decent shade tolerance: Geo Zoysia and Discovery Bermuda. Any thoughts on those two? It's not like the yard is 100% shade but the direct sun time is just not much.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

WDE46 said:


> A couple warm grasses claim decent shade tolerance: Geo Zoysia and Discovery Bermuda. Any thoughts on those two? It's not like the yard is 100% shade but the direct sun time is just not much.


If true, stay away from any grass with the last name "Bermuda". You can check the sunlight intensity with a meter to determine if the area will support bermuda or not, but based on what you said, zoysia or St Augustine may be a better choice.


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## WDE46 (Mar 11, 2019)

I personally hate St Augustine with a passion. Can Zoysia be grown from plugs? Or must it be seeded or sodded?


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

WDE46 said:


> I personally hate St Augustine with a passion. Can Zoysia be grown from plugs? Or must it be seeded or sodded?


It can but expect very slow growth in shade. Might take multiple years to fill


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## WDE46 (Mar 11, 2019)

If in theory I wanted to start trying to grow zoysia what are the first steps? I'm sure I need to kill these weeds but do I need to till up the soil?

I think I know what I'm going to do this year though. I'm going to see how it plays out with the plan from the first post in the back yard. The sun will continue to rise above my back lawn throughout the summer and may provide decent light. I think I can try to give Bermuda a fighting chance with care.

If it ends up muddy or entirely unsatisfactory, I will plant annual rye in the lawn for the fall/winter and come next spring I'll be fully prepared to grow a nice zoysia lawn (kill everything, rent a tiller, and plant seed). Apparently the good zoysia seed had a bad year and is hardly available so this year would be difficult at best anyway.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Do not till, unless you have a VERY strong reason to. A Harley rake can break up the surface enough to provide your seed with soil contact. Warm season grass seed should be no deeper than 1/4" anyway.

The North side of a structure is going to get less sunlight than the rest in our hemisphere. Trees, fences, etc all come into play. It's likely that bermuda would be fine in the center of the yard and possibly more. In fact, there may be more there than you think, and a season of proper care could restore it for you.


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## WDE46 (Mar 11, 2019)

Never heard of a harley rake. Looks cool. Luckily have a connection to a Bobcat dealer/rental center  if I need it next year.

I think I just need to give the back yard the best chance I can give it to grow. If it doesn't start to grow in well, then I'll plant a new lawn.

Thanks for the input.


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## Chrisholmes02 (Jan 19, 2019)

My neighbor put down pre emergent earlier this year. But has no grass, only weeds and bare dirt. He wants to kill the weeds and start over with seed in his lawn but since he put pre emergent down that pretty much kills his chances of seeding as I understand it. Would that Harley rake also break up the chemical barrier and allow the seeds to grow?


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## WDE46 (Mar 11, 2019)

Chrisholmes02 said:


> My neighbor put down pre emergent earlier this year. But has no grass, only weeds and bare dirt. He wants to kill the weeds and start over with seed in his lawn but since he put pre emergent down that pretty much kills his chances of seeding as I understand it. Would that Harley rake also break up the chemical barrier and allow the seeds to grow?


This is why I'm not putting preemergent down in the back yard or near areas that are bare. I may need to seed or sprig and I don't want to hurt their chances. My basic understanding of the preemergent tells me that breaking up the surface would help with the seeding. Obviously, I'm not an expert. I'm a novice since I'm the thread starter. I'm just going off what I've read on the prem labels. My Hi-yield label says not to incorporate the product into the soil because it would dilute the active ingredient. Turning that around would mean incorporating into the soil effectively dilutes the active ingredient IMO.


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

Chrisholmes02 said:


> My neighbor put down pre emergent earlier this year. But has no grass, only weeds and bare dirt. He wants to kill the weeds and start over with seed in his lawn but since he put pre emergent down that pretty much kills his chances of seeding as I understand it. Would that Harley rake also break up the chemical barrier and allow the seeds to grow?


Any mechanical disturbance should break up the chemical barrier. In fact I have seeded TTTF just a few weeks after using a 6 month rate of prodiamine. I simply lightly tilled the surface with a power rake.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

I have a few things I would like to say. However I need pictures or it doesn't exist.


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## WDE46 (Mar 11, 2019)

I've decided on a course of action.

I am going to seed Zenith Zoysia in a 25 x 25 ft area (625 ft sq) in the back yard. This will be easily manageable to keep watered and healthy. I'll tear up all the weeds by hand and put down new top soil. I will put it in the most sunny spot in my back yard and fence it off from the dog (100' of green plastic fence and some poles is about $100). I will tend to this area with high priority. The rest of the back will get Celsius rather soon (hopefully fence is up this weekend or middle of next week) and we'll see what comes up.

So next year, I'll have 625 ft^2 of zoysia that I can use to plug the rest of the yard! I imagine I'll be able to do half the yard a year, so in two years I'll have a 50% zoysia back yard. In 2021, I'll have a 100% zoysia yard. It should be a big selling point to the house in 5 years or so.

Very excited and motivated to get it done as a great long term project for the property!


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

WDE46 said:


> I've decided on a course of action.
> 
> I am going to seed Zenith Zoysia in a 25 x 25 ft area (625 ft sq) in the back yard. This will be easily manageable to keep watered and healthy. I'll tear up all the weeds by hand and put down new top soil. I will put it in the most sunny spot in my back yard and fence it off from the dog (100' of green plastic fence and some poles is about $100). I will tend to this area with high priority. The rest of the back will get Celsius rather soon (hopefully fence is up this weekend or middle of next week) and we'll see what comes up.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if the green plastic fence you have there is like the orange plastic fence we have here but the square cut outs are not very big on ours. Unless the sun goes directly over the area it will be casting a lot of shadow on your grass. Maybe chicken wire would do the same and allow a lot more sunlight in?


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## WDE46 (Mar 11, 2019)

TN Hawkeye said:


> WDE46 said:
> 
> 
> > I've decided on a course of action.
> ...


Crap that's a good point. I need to check the hole size. It's similar to the orange stuff but may be a bit more open.

Edit: looks pretty open. Moreso than regular construction stuff. People are using this in their gardens so I think it'll be ok. Not as good as chicken wire but probably cheaper.


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## WDE46 (Mar 11, 2019)

I took some pictures today so you guys can see current status.

Imgur album with descriptions:



http://imgur.com/w7p8fc2


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

Lot of truth offered here.

Get a light meter 
Maybe soil test 
Fix drainage (smooth it out so water doesn't pool), bury gutter etc

In meantime, go figure out grass options

Seeding, sprigs - kinda need irrigation...


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