# New Tempest and Rachio integration



## San (Jun 21, 2021)

It seems you can buy a Tempest weather station through Rachio and they will provide you an integration code (which they say will normally be $50 :? ) to directly link your weather station to your controller.

Anybody who has done this? Any benefits over just sending your data up to CWOP or Weather Underground?

https://rachio.com/weatherflow-tempest/










> You can now see Tempest data in the Rachio app and use your Tempest as the weather source for your smart sprinkler controller. Special early access to this new integration (a $50 MSRP) is only available for those who purchase a Tempest on rachio.com.


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

Curios - why would you buy a weather station when Ranchio offers hyper-local weather as part of the app? I've found it to work well for me so far.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

Hyper local weather is just somebody else's weather station right? 
So with your own weather station it would be ultra hyper local weather. 

Ideally it would also integrate with soil moisture sensors, but I don't think they support that (yet).


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

San said:


> Hyper local weather is just somebody else's weather station right?
> So with your own weather station it would be ultra hyper local weather.
> 
> Ideally it would also integrate with soil moisture sensors, but I don't think they support that (yet).


Maybe so - but that's money I can spend on yard equipment toys or treatments I don't need to spend on a weather station.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

DFW_Zoysia said:


> Maybe so - but that's money I can spend on yard equipment toys or treatments I don't need to spend on a weather station.


Stop talking me out of buying stuff I don't really need! :x :lol:


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

San said:


> DFW_Zoysia said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe so - but that's money I can spend on yard equipment toys or treatments I don't need to spend on a weather station.
> ...


LOL. Fair enough. Holy moly am I the king of buying stuff I don't actually need.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

DFW_Zoysia said:


> San said:
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> 
> > Hyper local weather is just somebody else's weather station right?
> ...


Something else to note is the availability of hyper local weather data in a metro area like DFW is a lot different than rural America where there may not be a reliable station within several miles of you.

I think it's also kind of like saying why would I need a car when I can just ride-share. Having access to your weather data is empowering. You own it, you don't have to worry about your neighbor's station going offline, etc.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

Good to see companies expanding on their products. I have Rachio but honestly the only reason I got it was because I couldn't find anything else (at the time) that would integrate with Google Assistant. I love my Ambient Weather Station with Soil Sensors.


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## d213rr (Feb 27, 2021)

@Austinite can you please explain more about your system? Thank you


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

d213rr said:


> @Austinite can you please explain more about your system? Thank you


I use an ambient weather station which connects to wifi and can have up to 8 soil moisture sensors synced to it. They make several models. Phone app is easy to use but also comes with a 7 inch screen with all the data you need (rainfall, wind, soil moisture, etc...) that you can place anywhere in your home.

https://ambientweather.com/amws5000.html


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

Austinite said:


> d213rr said:
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> > @Austinite can you please explain more about your system? Thank you
> ...


Probes? Who needs probes?!?!? I simply use laser beams that shoot from my eyes into the soil to measure moisture. Any true lawn lover should be able to do the same.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

DFW_Zoysia said:


> Austinite said:
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> > d213rr said:
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Some people just look and know... :lol: 
(you made me think of this thread: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30772)


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

San said:


> DFW_Zoysia said:
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> > Austinite said:
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Oh boy, if Amoo316 says it, then it must be true.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

What I don't understand is, Why an irrigation controller that is renown for efficient watering via accurate data inputs, would pair up with a weather station that is known for one glaring flaw - a terribly inaccurate rainfall measurement system. The Tempest uses a "haptic" rainfall sensor. In layman's terms, that means it senses the vibration from raindrops hitting the station and uses the impulse amplitude and frequency to estimate the rate of precipitation. Okie dokie..... I have questions.... :bd: :lol:

The Tempest sure does look to be a nice station, and the supposedly excellent lightning detection intrigues me. But the last thing I'd want to use it for is accurate precipitation inputs to my irrigation controller. :?

You can turn off Rachio's weather intelligence plus data gathering and link it to any specific weather station. Doesn't have to be officially sponsored. Just needs to upload to a data service Rachio can access.

I believe the Rachio does support soil moisture sensors as well. https://support.rachio.com/en_us/soil-sensor-faq-B1Q1dI1Fv


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

Fair point. It seems they do seem to offer calibration support: https://help.weatherflow.com/hc/en-us/articles/360046411573-Rain-Accumulation-Calibrations


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## Highlife159 (May 19, 2021)

MasterMech said:


> What I don't understand is, Why an irrigation controller that is renown for efficient watering via accurate data inputs, would pair up with a weather station that is known for one glaring flaw - a terribly inaccurate rainfall measurement system. The Tempest uses a "haptic" rainfall sensor. In layman's terms, that means it senses the vibration from raindrops hitting the station and uses the impulse amplitude and frequency to estimate the rate of precipitation. Okie dokie..... I have questions.... :bd: :lol:


I've always wondered if their "AI precipitation measurements" were accurate. Found this review that discusses it a little. One part that really stood out was this: 


> The WeatherFlow consistently under measured rain, especially in heavier downpours. To correct this, WeatherFlow developed a feature called "Rain Check". Essentially, WeatherFlow's systems take a look at the measurements from your Tempest and radar estimated precipitation data and combine them using a proprietary formula.


It's interesting to me that they're using radar estimated precip to correct their measurements because it has quite a few issues also. Here's an article that discusses all the different things that make radar estimated precip not great. My main concern is that they're trying to fix a "point" measurement (weather station) using a "volume" measurement (radar). For example, let's say your house is 140 miles from the closest radar (this is the maximum range). The radar beam has a diameter of 2.3 miles at that distance. So, you're telling me that to improve the accuracy of your "haptic rain guage" you're going to use measurements that are notorious for under-estimating (sometimes significantly) precipitation accumulation. And I'll have to pay a hefty $329 for that? I think I'll pass


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## Highlife159 (May 19, 2021)

San said:


> Fair point. It seems they do seem to offer calibration support: https://help.weatherflow.com/hc/en-us/articles/360046411573-Rain-Accumulation-Calibrations


Seeing this after my rant above. It's nice that they provide a way to use your own on-site measurements to calibrate the unit although I still think this is something that should have been ironed out well before release.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

Highlife159 said:


> San said:
> 
> 
> > Fair point. It seems they do seem to offer calibration support: https://help.weatherflow.com/hc/en-us/articles/360046411573-Rain-Accumulation-Calibrations
> ...


The reporting of your own measurements seems to be using google forms. So it was probably something they put together after user/reviewer complaints.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Highlife159 said:


> San said:
> 
> 
> > Fair point. It seems they do seem to offer calibration support: https://help.weatherflow.com/hc/en-us/articles/360046411573-Rain-Accumulation-Calibrations
> ...


Using a radar measurement (which location is seldom precise) to "correct" the point measurement by averaging the precipitation in your general area defeats the whole purpose of using a point measurement in the first place. That seems no better than using every PWS reporting data within a certain radius of your location, which is exactly what Rachio's Weather Intelligence + feature does. In many areas, I'm sure this is plenty precise enough. In my area, I have see PWS two miles down the road get hammered in a summer thunderstorm that completely bypasses my neighborhood. This isn't a once or twice a year occurrence either. I'd be willing to wager that it's around 50% of the time May-Sept.

As far as the haptic method - how does it distinguish between bigger drops (more water) and wind-driven rain? If it's able to use the Ultrasonic Anemometer to compare wind speed to haptic input in real-time, that's way above the pay grade I'd expect at this price point. Even if you were to calibrate the rainfall sensor successfully, how do you account for such variances? Yes, wind affects physical rain gauges as well. Physical gauges don't miss light rain/mist though. I think the haptic idea could be great combined with a standard tip-bucket rain gauge. At that point you may indeed be able to use wind data to adjust measured precipitation levels and utilize the haptics to verify/track precipitation rates in addition to more precise start/stop times.


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## Highlife159 (May 19, 2021)

@MasterMech I would be shocked if they weren't using the anemometer data to help with determining drop size. I don't know what kind of chip they're using but I'd imagine a raspberry pie could handle something like that.
I would imagine the haptic sensor is very sensitive which would mean any kind of external vibration is just added noise that you're trying to extract the signal from. I'd bet they're having issues accounting for these outside vibrations because it's just so hard to replicate all the different things that could register a false reading with a sensor that's so sensitive.


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## hiloran (Sep 22, 2021)

My Weatherflow send data to weather underground. Then you can select your own weather station in Rachio


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## athenslb57 (Aug 27, 2020)

MasterMech said:


> What I don't understand is, Why an irrigation controller that is renown for efficient watering via accurate data inputs, would pair up with a weather station that is known for one glaring flaw - *a terribly inaccurate rainfall measurement system*. The Tempest uses a "haptic" rainfall sensor. In layman's terms, that means it senses the vibration from raindrops hitting the station and uses the impulse amplitude and frequency to estimate the rate of precipitation. Okie dokie..... I have questions.... :bd: :lol:
> 
> The Tempest sure does look to be a nice station, and the supposedly excellent lightning detection intrigues me. But the last thing I'd want to use it for is accurate precipitation inputs to my irrigation controller. :?
> 
> ...


Actually, the tempest is very accurate *if* you have them calibrate the station a few times. I report rainfall amounts via CoCoRahs so I have manual gauge next to my tempest. My rainfall amounts are within .02" between the two. Good enough for me.


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## athenslb57 (Aug 27, 2020)

San said:


> Highlife159 said:
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> > San said:
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If you report rainfall via CoCoRahs then you just give them your station id for calibration.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

athenslb57 said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> > What I don't understand is, Why an irrigation controller that is renown for efficient watering via accurate data inputs, would pair up with a weather station that is known for one glaring flaw - *a terribly inaccurate rainfall measurement system*. The Tempest uses a "haptic" rainfall sensor. In layman's terms, that means it senses the vibration from raindrops hitting the station and uses the impulse amplitude and frequency to estimate the rate of precipitation. Okie dokie..... I have questions.... :bd: :lol:
> ...


.02" would be plenty accurate enough for me too.....


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## DFWLawnNut (Jul 7, 2020)

Austinite said:


> d213rr said:
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> > @Austinite can you please explain more about your system? Thank you
> ...


I loved mine until the hail destroyed the glass on top and rendered it dead. I also used the soil sensors and lightning sensor with it. Ended up going with a Davis Vantage Pro. Can it break in the hail too? Probably. Did I need to upgrade to it, of course not, but man do I love that thing. Its ridiculous huge and is paired to the rachio via wunderground lol.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

DFWLawnNut said:


> Austinite said:
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> > d213rr said:
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Dang. Hail can wreak havoc!

Davis Advantage Pro was one of the units I was looking at and comparing. It gets a lot of great feedback. I didnt know you can link to Rachio. Gonna look into it some more. Not ready to switch but you never know! Thanks for the info,


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