# Plan to start over



## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

Hello! I am new to the forum and was hoping to get some input from the knowledgeable people on here.

I have decided to nuke my yard with glyphosate and start over. I sprayed it yesterday 8/19 with goal of having seed down 9/11. I live in south eastern CT, zone 6b. Album below shows pictures and soil sample reports for back and front yard.

https://imgur.com/a/9INXzU9

My plan for reseeding is as follows. I really want to get this right, so please let me know if there is something else I should be doing. Any help would be appreciated!

1) spray with glyphosate on 8/19
2) on 9/3 mow on shortest setting and bag clipping
3) aerate multiple times with core aerator. I have rocky soil, so I don't think tilling is in the cards. 
4) lime with Pennington fast acting lime standard application amount, front and back yard
5) spread top soil in selective areas that are especially rocky or uneven. I do not plan on covering everything.
6) on 9/10 I plan to spread Scott's premium humans and manure thinly over entire lawn mixed 50/50 with topsoils. I only have 45 bags of the compost for my 4000 sqft yard, but I figured a thin layer over the freshly aerated lawn would be good.
7) spread lesco 18-24-12 starter fertilizer both front and back. I plan to spread some 0-0-60 in the backyard as recommended by soil sample maybe?
8) on 9/11 I plan to spread Scott sun and shade seed over most of yard and Scott dense shade in the most heavily shaded areas. Gently rake seed into aerated lawn and compost/soil mixture. water lightly twice a day as recommended
9) prior to winter I plan on liming the backyard again with pellet lime and putting down winter fertilizer on everything. Check ph levels of backyard again in spring and lime accordingly.

Am I missing anything? Should I do anything differently? Thanks in advance!


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

If you're going to kill the whole lawn, I would look into better seed options. The Sun and Shade mix is 50% coating, so factor that in to price. The Scotts will contain a percentage of weed seeds that is not insignificant I would call hogan seed and see what they have left. They have good sun and shade options and doesn't cost that much more. Have you already done a soil test? Mid September is cutting it close if you're trying to grow KBG, I might try to seed on the 3rd if you can do both in one day.

Welcome to TLF!


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## jimmy (Jul 25, 2017)

I agree. Scott's seed will grow and look ok, but the there is way better seed out there for close to the same price as the Scott's. I used Seed Superstore on my renovation last year. They were a little pricey, but I was killing my lawn....so I didn't want to skimp on the most important part. Plus, I was doing KBG and you only seed at 2lbs per 1000 sq ft, so I didn't need a lot.

Here's a good thread about seed companies:
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3335


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

Thanks for the quick input! I will take a look into other seed options. My yard is very shaded, so I didn't think KBG is the best option. Since I was planning on doing the Scott mix, I didn't really look into it, but I was thinking rye/fescue would be a better choice. I could be completely wrong there.

I did get a soil sample, it is in the imgur album I have attached in my post. Is that visible? I could find a better way to attach it.


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

I looked into PRG and it can struggle in CT (winter kill). You're a bit more southern than I, so you might do better with it. Do you have irrigation? I would strongly consider tall fescue, especially if you do not have irrigation. It looks like you get enough sun for TTTF. Do you have any Valley Green locations nearby? They are geared towards pros, but they sell to homeowners and carry good seed.


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

jessehurlburt said:


> I looked into PRG and it can struggle in CT (winter kill). You're a bit more southern than I, so you might do better with it. Do you have irrigation? I would strongly consider tall fescue, especially if you do not have irrigation. It looks like you get enough sun for TTTF. Do you have any Valley Green locations nearby? They are geared towards pros, but they sell to homeowners and carry good seed.


I do not have irrigation. Also, the picture of the front yard is in the sunny part of the day, and it is the most sunny part of the yard. Lots of the yard does not receive that much sun, I am concerned if there is even enough to sustain a good turf of any kind in some areas. I have kids and a dog as well, so any grass they is described as "hardy" in a shade environment is what I would be looking for. I understand there is no magic bullet, and you can't grow good grass everywhere, but it's what I am trying to work with. Trying to clear out some trees, but there are a bunch of them. I will look into valley green. Also, what is TTTF? Thanks again!


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

TTTF = Turf Type Tall Fescue.

For very shady areas, fine fescue or creeping red fescue is an option. It looks like there is a Valley Green in Hamden, CT. I got both TTTF and a shade mix from them. Only $2.50 a pound and much less weed seed compared to the scotts. I've already grown some these last few weeks and it looks great and germinated nicely.


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

I am considering picking up a bag of the below. I think it will do fine in all of my yard, I don't have any places that get much more than a few hours of direct sunlight a day. I think TTTF could survive well in about half my yard, but it may be simpler to just get that shade mix from seed superstore.

https://www.seedsuperstore.com/catalog/p-100004/ss6000-shady-mixture?zip=06335&type=shady


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

I have been doing a lot of reading on this forum and learning a lot. I went ahead and ordered the SS6600 shady mix from seed superstore. I am trying to debate when to plant. I am going to be out of town September 5th-9th. I think it would be better timing to plant before I leave (potentially the 1st), but relying on an automatic waterer (the kind that hooks up to a spigot, I don't have a professional irrigation system) makes me nervous when I am trying to get he seed to germinate. I could get the dog sitter to make sure it's working, but still makes me nervous not being able to monitor the situation myself. I could ruin this whole effort right out of the gate.

My question is, is it worth dealing with that potential risk to plant earlier, or can I wait and plant on the 10th? Thanks!


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## Mattsbay_18 (Aug 3, 2018)

I kind of like the idea of leaving town then coming home to a germinating lawn. You can do it as long as your sprinklers are set up for maximum coverage and the timer is set to keep soil moist at all times.

I just completed a test spot for a reno i'll be starting in 2019. I wanted to see how the seed reacted to my soil prep, fertilizing and watering schedules. I used an Orbit timer and set it up to water 5 times a day for 5 minutes each cycle (you'll have to adjust for your soil type and coverage area). This kept the seed nice and moist. My KBG test plot germinated in 7 days.

If you are confident that your seed will stay moist, I say let her rip!


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

I think your far enough south that you can wait until the 10th to seed, especially being your not using KBG. Ideally you'd want to seed earlier, but being proper irrigation is so important when your seeding, if your not sure about your sprinkler timer I would wait to make sure you can properly keep the seeds moist.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

You could seed before you leave if you have someone with a good eye that can check the watering coverage for you. If the seeds dry out they are toast, and a leaking hose, sprinkler falling over etc would be bad news.

Also make sure that dog walker doesn't do any dog walking on your germinating seeds!


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

Finalizing some plans, and I have a question. I am using topsoil to level some localized areas, but did not plan on spreading topsoil over the whole lawn. I am instead considering spreading a thin layer of peat moss over the aerated lawn. I also have a bunch of bags of compost I got on sale, I am thinking mixing a bag or 2 of compost with a bail of peat moss would make a pretty sweet dressing. I think spreading a 1/4" layer of that mixture over the freshly scalped and aerated lawn would make a nice seed bed for my Reno. Should I i spread the top dressing before or after seeding? My gut feel is spread dressing before seed then gently rake in the seed. The top dressing will help fill in the aerated holes so seed doesn't fall in the holes. Sound like a good plan? Thanks!


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

Shadygardner said:


> Finalizing some plans, and I have a question. I am using topsoil to level some localized areas, but did not plan on spreading topsoil over the whole lawn. I am instead considering spreading a thin layer of peat moss over the aerated lawn. I also have a bunch of bags of compost I got on sale, I am thinking mixing a bag or 2 of compost with a bail of peat moss would make a pretty sweet dressing. I think spreading a 1/4" layer of that mixture over the freshly scalped and aerated lawn would make a nice seed bed for my Reno. Should I i spread the top dressing before or after seeding? My gut feel is spread dressing before seed then gently rake in the seed. The top dressing will help fill in the aerated holes so seed doesn't fall in the holes. Sound like a good plan? Thanks!


I think that is a great plan. :thumbup:


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

Ups man brought me a present!


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

Day 6 after glyphosate. I would have thought it would be more dead by now, but I guess it's working. I applied more today, especially to areas I clearly missed last time. Hoping next weekend it will be toast.


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

Toast! Big weekend coming up, plan to aerate, level some areas, and spread some lime. I have decided to plant 9/10 after I get back from vacation. All I will have to do when I get back is spread the peat moss/compost and put down seed and fert. I plan to water the dead yard between now and then and spray any areas that pop up the day before seeding.


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

Ok, so seed is down. It's was a rain event the last couple days so I couldn't really do much until today. I spread some compost and peat moss, spread seed, then raked It in. I think it worked out very well, the seed covers up easily. Looks like I should get a little rain and a good bit of cloud cover the next 10 days, so that is a plus. Hopefully I got the seed down soon enough. Here's to hoping it grows!


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

Well, this sucks. Decided to absolutely pour all day. I don't understand how 40% chance of thunderstorms has turned into this monsoon. Pools of water all over the yard and it's still coming down hard. What do I do? Get more seed and put down more? Rerake it tomorrow hoping not too much seed washed away? Just hope for the best? Really frustrated at the momoment.


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## MassHole (Jun 27, 2018)

Same situation here. I got extra seed tho.

If you have pools of seed, grab a rake and spread it, and add more seed.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

Par for the course unfortunately. I raked piles of compost last year, waited 10 days and reseeded the thin areas.
Sorry man


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

So I ended up redoing a lot of my work today. I spread some more seed and peat moss and then watered. How do I get the peat moss wet? Only the surface is getting wet, even if I water it a good bit. I almost feel like I need to water, rake a bit, water, rake, etc. Any tips? The moss is not think at all , I basically did a dusting over the new seed. Crazy how it repels water like that. Thanks in advance!


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Shadygardner said:


> So I ended up redoing a lot of my work today. I spread some more seed and peat moss and then watered. How do I get the peat moss wet? Only the surface is getting wet, even if I water it a good bit. I almost feel like I need to water, rake a bit, water, rake, etc. Any tips? The moss is not think at all , I basically did a dusting over the new seed. Crazy how it repels water like that. Thanks in advance!


Every now and then, someone has trouble getting peat moss wet; that is, the top layer wets, but nothing penetrates. Let's hope that you are simply not watering it enough, and that this is a simple fix for you. Read through the linked thread. Note especially the suggestion re misting pattern and then fan pattern.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1139


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

Peat moss seems to be getting wet after thinning out a couple thick areas. Thanks for the tips! Also, I have some germination today despite the epic rain we got on Wednesday which is encouraging. Hopefully the seed i put down yesterday will fill in any thin areas. And hopefully I dodge some of the worst from these hurricane remnant. This is so hard! Haha.

If I ordered some more seed in case we get another washout, could I store it until next year? I figured if I could, I might as well just buy some more just in case. I am determined to have grass before winter, rain and high water! Haha


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Shadygardner said:


> If I ordered some more seed in case we get another washout, could I store it until next year?


Grass seed should be kept in a cool, dry place. It will definitely keep until next year. Actually, some studies report higher germination percentage in the 2nd year after harvesting.

Grass should keep at least 3 years with little loss in germination percentage. After that, it's good to test the viability of seed about a month before seeding by germinating a sample of the seeds. For example, see https://www.todayshomeowner.com/how-to-test-seeds-for-germination-before-planting/


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

Despite the 5" of rain I got the day after seeding last week, I got germination on day 5, pictures are from day 6. It's patchy and you can def see the low areas where the see congregated, but it's honestly better than I expected. Hopefully the seed I spread on Saturday (less than half what I spread first time)will even it out, assuming rain we get tomorrow doesn't wash it out again.


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

I appreciate all the feedback and resources of this site. It has been very helpful. I have another questions that I could use some input on. Despite my attempts the water the "dead" grass for 2 weeks and spray glyphosate again before seeding, I am getting some clover germinating with the grass. Not everywere, but a couple areas have a good bit coming up. Is there anything I should do at this point, or just deal with it in the spring? I did not put down any kind of preM before seeding. I though that starting from a blank canvas and approaching fall time, it wouldn't be necessary. And I didn't want to potentially hinder and grass germinating. Thanks again!


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Shadygardner said:


> ... I am getting some clover germinating with the grass. Not everywere, but a couple areas have a good bit coming up. Is there anything I should do at this point, or just deal with it in the spring? I did not put down any kind of preM before seeding.


Did you end up using the SS6000 Shady Mix (Hard fescue, chewings fescue, red fescue, Bewitched KBG)? The grass type matters, as different grasses are more/less resistant to various herbicides.

How big is the area in question? If you think you can carefully hand-pull the clover seedlings out of the baby grass without disturbing the good grass much and think you could pull all the clover in less than 30 minutes by hand, then that's what I would do, personally. I'd probably wait until the seedlings were about 3 weeks old before doing that. Sometimes, I think some folks go to all sorts of lengths to find the right chemical, order it, receive it a week later, and apply it to the lawn, in order to kill 10sqft of weeds that they could have pulled by hand in 15 minutes. (I'm not saying that you're in this category, but if you can get rid of the weeds in 15 minutes by hand-pulling them, just do it.)

If there's too much clover to hand-pull, or it's already too deeply established that the plants all break off, then I'd be inclined to spray it with a light dosage of Tenacity or Scotts CCO, but only after reading the label recommendations for how long to wait before spraying the product on newly-germinated grass of the type(s) in my lawn. I think both products require at least 4+ weeks after germination or 2-3 mowings, whichever is longer, but don't trust my poor memory -- instead read the label of the specific product you'd be applying.

Unless the areas in question are more than about 30% clover, you'd probably be okay to wait until spring to deal with the clover, as the clover won't become an invasive weed that strictly demands immediate attention (such as _poa trivialis_ or quackgrass, which should be dealt with as soon as you recognize the problem -- every day of waiting to deal with those is just a day of making a bigger problem!)


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

ken-n-nancy said:


> Shadygardner said:
> 
> 
> > ... I am getting some clover germinating with the grass. Not everywere, but a couple areas have a good bit coming up. Is there anything I should do at this point, or just deal with it in the spring? I did not put down any kind of preM before seeding.
> ...


Thanks for the detailed reply. Yes, I got the SS6000 mix. I will give it some more time to see how much clover comes up (plus my grass is exactly 2 days old right anyway). It seems to be localize to a small area, but the density in that area is quite a bit. I will try and take a picture tomorrow. They are so tiny that pulling by hand could be quite the project. I also had a few broadleaf weeds pop up, put those were easy to pull. I will keep an eye out for any other kind of weeds, but right now I am seeing pretty much all grass except in those few clover areas.


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

How should I be feeling about this? It's been a week today since sowing. Looks patchy and thin in some areas, but I'm not real sure how it supposed to look density wise.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I seem to see quite a few very small sprouts even in areas that look bare. 7 days isn't very long, at least for KBG. Personally, I would feel pretty good at this point, but I really don't know much about the germination patterns of those fine fescues.

Expect more KBG to be popping up.

It can be a little disheartening if you have patchy germination while others seem to have even germination and then a full lawn in three weeks or something crazy. Just keep in mind that if there is seed in the ground and it remains moist, it is still a contender. Sometimes, grows just take a long time.


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## kevreh (Apr 3, 2018)

My germinations typically look like that, sort of inconsistent. Reno's that looked rough 1 month after seeding look fine the next spring/summer. Will even out over time, just keep it lightly watered for 2-3 weeks.


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

give it another 3-4 weeks and it will look much better.

your just worried about it because you care too much. keep it watered and it will thrive.


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

MMoore said:


> ...your just worried about it because you care too much. keep it watered and it will thrive.


haha, I think you hit the nail on the head. Thank you for the perspective. Its the first time I have done this, and I have spent a lot of time and money over the past month. Stressing me out a bit haha. Also, this morning it looks even better, I think I can relax for a while and just keep it watered. Thanks!


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

Seeded a few wash out areas this morning, and I think I am officially done. Going to beep watering and hope I have a nice yard in the spring. Pretty happy with the result right now. Picture is from day 11 after seeding.


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## Shadygardner (Aug 20, 2018)

First mow. I have areas that kept getting washed out in the crazy amounts rain lately. I didnt take pictures of those areas, but the areas that didn't get washed out are looking pretty good! It's been almost a month since sowing. Going to fetilize before the rain this week I think.


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