# Weed identification and help on getting a better yard



## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

My yard isn't the worse but it's not the best. Neighbirs on both sides don't care if they have weeds or grass, they just mow it all the same. Am I fighting an uphill battle?

Lot isn't huge (190Lx90w), I sprayed down some Ortho weed b gone this weekend as well as put Milo down. First time in 5 years I have done anything to the yard, just trying to get a better looking yard.

Any idea on what else could be done?

I have another bottle of Ortho (it's the kind you hook up to your garden hose) to spray, but it says twice a year so not sure how long I have to wait.

Sorry if this question is all over the place but there is so much info out there, I have no clue where to start. Not looking to have the A+ yards that I see a bunch of y'all have, just something that looks respectable.

One more question: my house blocks a part of my yard where it doesn't get hardly any sun, what can I grow there? Seems that only weeds and stuff like that grows there.

Here are the pics of the weeds.

https://imgur.com/a/djzdb
https://i.imgur.com/cWri6cM.jpg


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Generally speaking, if it looks like a type of grass, ortho is unlikely to control it, although there are limited exceptions. Ortho weed be gon is a three way amine herbicide and those tend to be used primarily on broadleaf weeds.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@Killmeh , and by the way, welcome to the forum!


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Welcome to TLF. Nothing wrong with getting started with the weed killer in the bottle to address the weeds you can see. What you'll need to do is to see if you can get some pre-emergent (PreM) down into the ground ASAP. This will help you have as weed-free a lawn as you can during the summer. You'll apply it again during the fall to prevent the weeds that you're seeing now, which are the winter weeds.

What I see as the clumps is probably Poa Annua, otherwise known as Annual Bluegrass. The smaller, orange-colored leafs that have the white stems are more than likely Carolina Geraniums. The stuff you sprayed will get those, but not the poa. Without seeing more close-ups of the weeds that you have, it's kinda hit & miss with what you've got in your yard, and how we can help you get a plan together for attack, and getting your yard to where YOU want it to be.

Another thing is that you can usually spread PreM along your property lines, and a few feet over into the neighbor's yard, which they won't even notice. You're actually just putting a barrier there for your own yard  If you have the ability to shop where landscapers shop at, i.e. Site One, or a co-op, you will find a larger selection of products that will get you on your way better than the Big Box stores. But if not, then there's always mail order. I must stress, *it's much less expensive to prevent the weeds from growing than to spray them when they're visible*. That being said, there's a few options that are available to you, and you can look for any products that have prodiamine or pendimethalin. Lowe's sells Scott's HALTS Crabgrass preventer which I believe the AI is pendimethalin, and another option is Pennington's Pro Care crabgrass control plus 0.37% prodiamine.

For beginners, it's easier and less apt to mess things up if you go with a granular that you can spread (not by hand mind you), rather than mixing and sprayer. In the long run, and if you go down the rabbit hole, we'll show you de wae of how to apply your PreM treatment via liquid form.

Welcome to TLF.


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> @Killmeh , and by the way, welcome to the forum!


Thanks! And yes not picture is plenty of broad leafs. I bought a stand up weed removers but man there are a lot of those to pull lol


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

Colonel K0rn said:


> Welcome to TLF. Nothing wrong with getting started with the weed killer in the bottle to address the weeds you can see. What you'll need to do is to see if you can get some pre-emergent (PreM) down into the ground ASAP. This will help you have as weed-free a lawn as you can during the summer. You'll apply it again during the fall to prevent the weeds that you're seeing now, which are the winter weeds.
> 
> What I see as the clumps is probably Poa Annua, otherwise known as Annual Bluegrass. The smaller, orange-colored leafs that have the white stems are more than likely Carolina Geraniums. The stuff you sprayed will get those, but not the poa. Without seeing more close-ups of the weeds that you have, it's kinda hit & miss with what you've got in your yard, and how we can help you get a plan together for attack, and getting your yard to where YOU want it to be.
> 
> ...


Thanks I will throw some preemergent down this weekend. Can I do that after the grass is cut?. I plan to cut Sunday so I can spray again Wednesday ish.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

> Thanks I will throw some preemergent down this weekend. Can I do that after the grass is cut?. I plan to cut Sunday so I can spray again Wednesday ish.


Yes.


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> > Thanks I will throw some preemergent down this weekend. Can I do that after the grass is cut?. I plan to cut Sunday so I can spray again Wednesday ish.
> 
> 
> Yes.


Do you know if there is a preemergent that will cover the POA annual crabgrass and other broadlead weeds?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Killmeh said:


> Do you know if there is a preemergent that will cover the POA annual crabgrass and other broadlead weeds?


Yes. Most PreM cover Poa A and multiple weeds. But it all depends on timing. The Poa A you see now, germinated in the fall of last year. It survived the winter and it is noticeable now. It normally dies with the summer heat. Before it dies, it drops a lot of seeds that germinate in the fall (a yearly cycle).

Therefore, PreM should be applied in the spring and the fall with the goal of maintaining a year long barrier.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Killmeh said:


> Movingshrub said:
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> 
> > > Thanks I will throw some preemergent down this weekend. Can I do that after the grass is cut?. I plan to cut Sunday so I can spray again Wednesday ish.
> ...


I'm just going to suggest prodiamine. It's cheap and it works. It will control poa annua and crabgrass. Just to measure expectations here, you are unlikely to get 100% control of everything. You will still need a thriving turf to help compete with any potential weeds.

Like @g-man said, the poa you're seeing now, likely germinated months ago. Although, it's possible there could be more to germinate, so get your pre-em applied.

Regarding broadleaf, there is a pre-emergent for broadleaf weeds but it's not really a good value in my opinion. It's Isoxaben. It's cheaper to kill the weeds that pop up with a post-em like ortho weed b gon, than it is to apply the pre-em. I'd suggest using it if you've got some kind of broadleaf that's really challenging to control with pre-em, or if you don't care about the cost, or want to just try to get ahead of the weeds instead of spraying with post-em. As your yard develops, you'll have less and less weeds.

Another option is a product from Bayer called Specticle flo (indaziflam is the chemical). It's newish. It controls broadleaf and grassy weeds. However - $$$. Take your pick.

My yard is 1/3 of an acre. I can apply year around prodiamine at a cost of $9. I can apply year round spectacle at a cost of $86.


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

g-man said:


> Killmeh said:
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> 
> > Do you know if there is a preemergent that will cover the POA annual crabgrass and other broadlead weeds?
> ...


Prem is the brand name or is it just shortcut for preemergent?

Sorry for all the questions!


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> Killmeh said:
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Interesting stuff.
I have no problem spraying weed b gone, it's cheap enough and one bottle does 16k square foot (enough for my entire yard), but it can only be used twice a year correct? Would it harm if you sprayed on say a monthly schedule?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Are you blanket spraying or spot spraying?

The limitation is due to the amount of 2,4-d you're allowed to apply per acre.

If you're still trying to kill weeds and you've exhausted your 2,4-d application limit, you can use something without 2,4-d, such as Celsius. There are plenty of other non 2,4-d options out there as well.


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

Blanket spraying. Weeds are pretty widespread. What is the 24d amount your allowed to use per acre?

I can eventually spot spray but right now it's beyond that.


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

Also thanks for all the help!

Is there a celcius brand that has a hose hooking. I like that because it makes it easier on a beginner like me.


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

What would happen if you exceeded the 24d limit.


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> Killmeh said:
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> > Movingshrub said:
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Would the Scott's halt do the same as prodiamine? It's active ingredient is pendimethalin but it's readily available where I am and in granular form so easier to control for me.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Pendimethalin and prodiamine have very similar control so it will work for weed control as well. Also, it's compatible with both Bermuda and St Augustine.

Be advised, pendimethalin will stain stuff yellow so get it off your driveway/sidewalk after application.

Also, I don't recall how long it lasts, so check the length of control. You may be in a situation where you have to reapply more frequently.

I understand the convenience angle, so by all means, go with what works for you.

See this brief thread regarding Halts use. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=620


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

Ok so Scott's is out of the question. What do they have at a big box stores that I can get that would do a good job?

There is way more to a better lawn than I thought lol


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Do you have a Site-One in your area? It may have been called Lesco or John Deere Landscapes.

What about a Ewing? Another option would be you local farmers co-op.


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

We have a few coops that should have the stuff.

Since it looks to be way cheaper, I think will buy liquid prodiamine and spray it. Only thing I have ever sprayed is round up. What is the best way to make sure you are applying even product. also what is your opinion on atrazine and can that be mixed with the prodiamine?


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

We have a Ewing also about 20 min away


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## balistek (Jun 5, 2017)

what part of louisiana you from?


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

Southern. By Lafayette


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

@Killmeh to answer your previous question, PreM = preemergent, PostM = postemergent. I'd suggest that you take a look at  to get educated on how to properly spray with a hand can. This will help you with your spraying of herbicides, PGR (plant growth regulator), and other things that come out of the sprayer and it helps with your consistency of application. One of the reasons we're suggesting that you use some granular PreM is because you run a good risk of damaging your lawn without proper calibration of your sprayer. You'll also have good results with the granular just starting out, it'll get you ahead of the game while you're getting educated on how to decrease the application cost and expenses of materials.

Read through the sticky on the Warm Season subforum. There's a lot of useful information in those threads, with some threads particular to your grass types.

Fell free to ask questions in this thread!


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## balistek (Jun 5, 2017)

Killmeh said:


> Southern. By Lafayette


Ah, OK, I lived in Lafayette for 6 months. Worked at the UMC hospital awhile back. Nice town. Off topic, but you enjoy beer? They have Parish Brewery in Broussard, LA. Good beers


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

Colonel K0rn said:


> @Killmeh to answer your previous question, PreM = preemergent, PostM = postemergent. I'd suggest that you take a look at  to get educated on how to properly spray with a hand can. This will help you with your spraying of herbicides, PGR (plant growth regulator), and other things that come out of the sprayer and it helps with your consistency of application. One of the reasons we're suggesting that you use some granular PreM is because you run a good risk of damaging your lawn without proper calibration of your sprayer. You'll also have good results with the granular just starting out, it'll get you ahead of the game while you're getting educated on how to decrease the application cost and expenses of materials.
> 
> Read through the sticky on the Warm Season subforum. There's a lot of useful information in those threads, with some threads particular to your grass types.
> 
> Fell free to ask questions in this thread!


Totally understandable and thanks for the links. Been looking through them in my spare time.

My dad has some atrazine he says I can spray down to help prem with the broadleaf weeds and a local coop has dimension in granular form (just has to be watered in I believe). Can I use. Otherwise of these at the same time for prem purposes?

I would be willing to buy dimension in the liquid form if it is better than the granular one.


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

The more I read up on it, seems like the dimension will do what I want without the need for altrazine, which makes me more relaxed because I read some horrible spray gone bad stories about what happened when you mess up with altrazine, plus the dimension is in granular form so I am.way more comfortable with that.


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

https://www.domyown.com/hiyield-weed-and-grass-stopper-with-dimension-herbicide-p-1779.html

This is the dimension in granular form. They have it for $14 for the 12 lb bag.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Killmeh said:


> https://www.domyown.com/hiyield-weed-and-grass-stopper-with-dimension-herbicide-p-1779.html
> 
> This is the dimension in granular form. They have it for $14 for the 12 lb bag.


I was actually going to recommend that exact product. I say go for it!


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

Colonel K0rn said:


> Killmeh said:
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> > https://www.domyown.com/hiyield-weed-and-grass-stopper-with-dimension-herbicide-p-1779.html
> ...


Awesome!

I'll cut Sunday, put this down probably Monday, and the spray weed b gone Wednesday.

How does that sound? Also we have a 50% chance of rain Monday and Tuesday. Is that ok to put down in the rain?


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Killmeh said:


> Colonel K0rn said:
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If you're not averse to getting wet while you spread it, no problem. You need to water it in, or let mother nature take care of it for you. You want to get at least 1/2" of water/irrigation down once you broadcast the product. If it's raining while you're doing it, just cover up your spreader hopper, and go to town.


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

Wanted to say thank you to everyone for the help! It's so much information to comprehend and y'all.helped a lot.

I am feeling good about doing fertalizer/weed b gon/dimension rotation every year and hopefully seeing less weeds each year. I know it's a long process and I have to reverse 5-6 years but here we go!


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

https://imgur.com/a/EmSyo

One more question for good measure. These are pics of my grasses taken feet from eachother. The more green one is still Augustine and the one still brown is Bermuda correct?

If so, I know Bermuda likes to be cut 2" and stuff Aug around 3, should I just split the difference?


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@Killmeh I would pick which grass you want to encourage the most and cater to it.

And yes, the St Augustine is the green wide bladed grass.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Spammage said:


> @Killmeh I would pick which grass you want to encourage the most and cater to it.
> 
> And yes, the St Augustine is the green wide bladed grass.


+1 You are going to have to choose which one to favor


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

I personally think the St Augustine looks better, is it a stronger grass per say ? As in it will take over the brumda?

Guess I need to start cutting 3 inches or so lol


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

Killmeh said:


> I personally think the St Augustine looks better, is it a stronger grass per say ? As in it will take over the brumda?
> 
> Guess I need to start cutting 3 inches or so lol


St. Augustine will not over run the Bermuda. In fact it's the other way around. You'd be better of going with going with Bermuda. It opens up a lot more herbicide options to control weeds. The only grass I've seen over run Bermuda per say is Zoysia. And when I say over run i really mean creep very very slowly over many years to eventually get the upper hand. And even then the Bermuda is still mixed in. I've come to realization that to totally kill Bermuda off you need to hit it with a soil sterilant like Imazapyr. Of course you won't have anything growing there for at least a year. Follow up the next year with the sod of your choice.


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

Bermuda it is then! 2" cutting here we come


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

Good news, put the prem down yesterday. Bad news, instead of 3/4" of rain we were supposed to have...mother nature came down with 2 inches. Will this affect this product?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm sure you're fine.


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## Nkoehn22 (Aug 21, 2017)

Since plugging my backyard with zoysia from my front yard last July, I've been fighting a lot of weeds in my backyard after plugging. I didn't apply anything except the necessary fertilizer. I didn't treat for weeds because I didn't want to risk killing off the new plugs until they were established for at least two months.. Some one from this site suggested sedge ender, and it worked very well. I applied it late September and it did its job, I also applied a crabgrass pre-emergent in the fall. Fast forward to now, March 6th and Kentucky Blue grass is taking over in parts along with other winter weeds. I did spray sedge ender on February 25th and seeing a little wilting on some winter weeds, nothing really on Kentucky Blue grass yet. What I'm wondering is, do I need to do a second spray once the temperature warms up more, or will that chemical still be effective weeks or even a month or two later? My Zoysia is just starting to wake up and I don't want to give it an overdose on sedge ender. Top pic is fall and the bottom one is a few days ago.

Any thoughts on this topic?

Nathan


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@Nkoehn22

Sedge hammer is a mixture of prodiamine (pre-emergent) and sulfentrazone, which is also known as Dismiss. Dismiss has a pre and post impact on sedges.

I'm going to preface this with - I haven't tried this myself.

I think you're going to have to turn to a sulfonylurea herbicide such as Revolver, Monument, Katana, or Certainty.

I can't speak to which would be the most effective. If you want to do some reading, http://caes2.caes.uga.edu/commodities/turfgrass/georgiaturf/WeedMngt/weedcontrol/TURFSULFONYLUREA.htm

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/41/1/255.full.pdf

Based off the second article, it looks like Revolver and Monument have the highest rate of control, using two treatments.

Independent of your Kentucky blue grass issue - Are you planning to put down a pre-emergent this season/now?


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## Nkoehn22 (Aug 21, 2017)

@Movingshrub I did put down crabgrass pre-emergent a couple weeks ago. From what I read Sedge Ender is a pre and post emergent chemical.

Nathan


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## Nkoehn22 (Aug 21, 2017)

My yard renovation project.. FYI when we moved into our home we had 10 trees in the back, four pine trees, and old shed. It was a total mess. 3 years later its much improved. Here is the link to all the picture and videos.

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B09G6XBubNDtp


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Nkoehn22 said:


> @Movingshrub I did put down crabgrass pre-emergent a couple weeks ago. From what I read Sedge Ender is a pre and post emergent chemical.
> 
> Nathan


Are you covering your entire yard with sedge ender? Also, just to make sure I understand correctly, are you using the sedge ender to try to kill off the Kentucky bluegrass?


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## Nkoehn22 (Aug 21, 2017)

Yes I just sprayed the backyard With Sedge Ender to hopefully kill the blue grass. My front yard doesn't have that issue, I'll have to do a little spot spraying but nothing serious. the front yard has been established for 2 full years now and is low maintenance when it comes to weeds.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Nkoehn22 said:


> Yes I just sprayed the backyard With Sedge Ender to hopefully kill the blue grass. My front yard doesn't have that issue, I'll have to do a little spot spraying but nothing serious. the front yard has been established for 2 full years now and is low maintenance when it comes to weeds.


The sedge ender label says that it's compatible with blue grass at labeled rates, so I wouldn't expect a lot of success with that approach. With that being said, it could do the job at higher than labeled rates. If you don't get the results you want, I'd strongly consider the other herbicides I listed previously. Good luck.


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## Nkoehn22 (Aug 21, 2017)

Thanks I appreciate it.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Killmeh said:


> Good news, put the prem down yesterday. Bad news, instead of 3/4" of rain we were supposed to have...mother nature came down with 2 inches. Will this affect this product?


Nope, you want to water in the PreM with at least 1/2" of rainfall or irrigation. You could do another half rate application during early summer to hedge your bets.


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## Stro3579 (Jun 30, 2017)

Can anyone identify these two weeds? Also what can I blanket spray my yard with to get rid of them?


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

Stro3579 said:


> Can anyone identify these two weeds? Also what can I blanket spray my yard with to get rid of them?


Not certain on the first pic. But the second one is definitely Henbit. Sometimes it's not totally necessary to ID every weed out there if you know what kills similar weeds. Most three-way products will take out either weed. There are warnings against using three-way products durning green-up. However it's really not something to be concerned with. In reality it might slightly delay the green-up process. But I have yet to experience it. Most major weed control companies use three-way products durning green-up with no negative consequences.


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## Stro3579 (Jun 30, 2017)

high leverage said:


> Stro3579 said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone identify these two weeds? Also what can I blanket spray my yard with to get rid of them?
> ...


Three way?


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## tnlynch81 (Jun 29, 2017)

[/quote]
Three way?
[/quote]


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Three way herbicides will have 3 active ingredients in it, usually containing Dicamba + 2,4-D and another active ingredient that I can't remember right now. They'll usually kill a broad spectrum of weeds that you have in your yard. I'm pretty sure the first picture looks like henbit too.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Stro3579 said:


> Can anyone identify these two weeds? Also what can I blanket spray my yard with to get rid of them?


I think the top is Carolina Geranium or Parsley-piert. Check photos to confirm. If it's either of those, three way herbicide should do the trick.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> Three way herbicides will have 3 active ingredients in it, usually containing Dicamba + 2,4-D and another active ingredient that I can't remember right now. They'll usually kill a broad spectrum of weeds that you have in your yard. I'm pretty sure the first picture looks like henbit too.


2,4-D, MCPP (mecoprop), and Dicamba are the most common blend in my opinion, but there are other variants out there.


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## Stro3579 (Jun 30, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> Colonel K0rn said:
> 
> 
> > Three way herbicides will have 3 active ingredients in it, usually containing Dicamba + 2,4-D and another active ingredient that I can't remember right now. They'll usually kill a broad spectrum of weeds that you have in your yard. I'm pretty sure the first picture looks like henbit too.
> ...


I have sprayed 24d and red zone. But nothing is killing this stuff. Any other suggestions?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Stro3579 said:


> Movingshrub said:
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Did you include any surfactant? When did you spray? Are you in Huntsville by any chance?


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## Stro3579 (Jun 30, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> Stro3579 said:
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Yes, I used joy for surfactant. I sprayed approximately 3 weeks ago. Yes, I'm in huntsville.


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

Top pic isn't Carolina Geranium or Henbit. Normal amine three-way can take up to 4 weeks to see results in temps below 70+ degrees


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## Stro3579 (Jun 30, 2017)

high leverage said:


> Top pic isn't Carolina Geranium or Henbit. Normal amine three-way can take up to 4 weeks to see results in temps below 70+ degrees


It's not yellowing at all either. Everything else is yellowing just fine.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

high leverage said:


> Top pic isn't Carolina Geranium or Henbit. Normal amine three-way can take up to 4 weeks to see results in temps below 70+ degrees


What about it being parsley piert? I'd read articles about it being hard to control with three way.


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

sorry to resurrect an old thread but man my grass is doing great! i need to get a new pic!

but a quick question, when in the fall should i put down pre-m again? September?


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