# Is it to late to Sand and level in eastern NC this time of year?



## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

First time poster here...and I have really enjoyed reading this forum the past couple of months!

I will try to keep my question short...

I live in Eastern NC and I started about 6 weeks ago adding sand and leveling to my backyard. It still has a some ways to go but what I have done (About 6 yards so far) has worked wonders!

Here is my question...I need to do my front yard which is about 4,500 sq feet.

Is to late in the season to add 2 to 4 yards of sand to the front yard? I know the grass is still growing with it being hot in NC right now but I didn't know if it was too late.

I could just wait until the Spring of next year to level....BUT...I want to scalp my front yard then core aerate and seed Princess 77 over this mixture of common bermuda and Zenith Zoysia seed I currently have.

My plan is to do this Middle to late May of next year and by mid july the new Bermuda and old Bermuda should be coming up good. At this time I plan to purchase a reel mower and start cutting to 1 inch or less.

My front yard is pretty level now...but when I cut to 1 inch with my rotary it has some scalp marks.

My concern Is I can't sand and level plus core aerate and sow seed at the same time...???

So I was gonna try to sand one last time this year if its not too late...so that the yard is level as possible... so that I can core aerate and over seed new warm season grass next spring.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

Aren't you guys looking at some serious wind/rain later this week? I'd probably hold off on throwing down a bunch of sand that will more than likely just get washed away!


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

viva_oldtrafford said:


> Aren't you guys looking at some serious wind/rain later this week? I'd probably hold off on throwing down a bunch of sand that will more than likely just get washed away!


Yes sir we may get some bad weather...I guess I was thinking the extra rain would help the sand settle...I hadn't thought about it possibly washing away...thanks for pointing that out...I am still a newbie and learning.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Next Spring when I core aerate and seed my yard could I top dress with sand "maybe not to the degree I would when I try to level the whole lawn" but maybe top dress in just the low areas that have scalp marks....along with sowing new seed ?


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## SGrabs33 (Feb 13, 2017)

Yeah, the rain we're going to get won't be great for sand. Also, the temps are starting to dip now so I would wait until after next years scalp to start doing some sanding. You will also be able to see the lower areas after the scalp :thumbup:

As for topdressing after seeding, someone else will have to answer that one for you.


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

I think it can be done. I would do 1/2 yard per 1k sqft so that you don't go to heavy. This way you get a head start.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Ok I am confused about you wanting to seed. Why? Are you trying to change grass types? Are you overseeding with rye? 
On the subject of topdressing- I can't give you any advice because I don't live in your area or climate.
I can tell you if you were in Nashville I would say wait. 
Are you getting temperatures still in the upper 80 or low 90s. If your in the 70's I would say wait.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Tellycoleman said:


> Ok I am confused about you wanting to seed. Why? Are you trying to change grass types? Are you overseeding with rye?
> On the subject of topdressing- I can't give you any advice because I don't live in your area or climate.
> I can tell you if you were in Nashville I would say wait.
> Are you getting temperatures still in the upper 80 or low 90s. If your in the 70's I would say wait.


Sorry for any confusion...right now my lawn is a mixture of a little bit of seeded Zoysia that was planted a couple years ago and did not come up and establish well at all. The rest of the lawn is common bermuda with Centipede.

After researching how to get Zoysia to overtake Bermuda...I decide if you can't beat them to join them mentality and decided to push Bermuda over trying to push the Zoysia.

The Bermuda I do have is common Bermuda and I am sure it will overtake the centipede with time.

My plan was "since" i have decided to try to have an all Bermuda Lawn and SOD and killing off the entire lawn is not an option...then that left me with the option of next spring core aerate the yard and sow 2 pounds of Princess Bermuda.

My plan was after about 2 months of the princess 77 bermuda being established...an aggressive fertilizer plan of 1 pound of nitrogen per month along with purchasing a reel mower will hopefully with time allow the princess to overtake the common bermuda.

Along with the above plan I felt like the bermuda both common or princess would overtake the centipede I do have considering centipede does not like fertilizer and bermuda does.

The lawn gets plenty of sunlight and its possibly I guess the zoysia will not be chocked out by the bermuda but since it has done such a poor job of establishing over the past couple of years I figured the bermuda would take it over as well.

I feel confident I can have a bermuda lawn...Its just I want to have a princess 77 bermuda lawn and not a common bermuda lawn...which is hopefully were the reel mower and constant low mowing will slowly help the princess 77.

Even if it doesn't the common bermuda lawns I have seen on this forum look great when REEL mowed.

I have sanded as much as I could this year only in anticipation of next year purchasing a reel mower and needing to have a smooth lawn...I thought I could at least get this step somewhat out of the way.

So....long story even longer (sorry for the lengthy post) When I core aerate mid May of next year once the aeration is done I will need to sow the seed the same day...which will then take prob 6 weeks to establish good before I could mow or reel mow...which given that time line...would put me into July and I would hate to purchase a reel mower then only to have to wait another 6 weeks for the fresh sand that could be put down at that time before I could start reel mowing...(hence why I was trying to do the sanding / leveling this year)...that way once the princess 77 is established I can go straight into reel mowing and fertilizing.

Again sorry the the long post but hopefully these details help make sense!

Thanks for the help!


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## MichiganGreen (Aug 7, 2018)

I know nothing about southern grasses, came here to see how people were handling the incoming hurricane. I do watch the weather closely though and whatever it is you're working on I'd absolutely wait until Florence is gone...stay safe down there.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Counting on getting free sand from the storm surge?


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> Counting on getting free sand from the storm surge?


LOL...nah...I actually went ahead and purchased the sand Monday of this week. At 17 dollars a yard and a couple hours of sweet equity if I lose it all...its not biggie. I just hit the low spots of the yard that has scuff signs...I didn't sand the entire yard.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

I like your game plan however your plan has a problem.
If you want to have a common bermuda lawn It will be easy to esablish. By the way 1 pound of N per 1000 isnt pushing nitrogen.
The problem you will have is with having princess 77- Riviera- or Yukon grow from seed in a non renovated lawn.
Many have tried during this spring. I told 3 people on this forum this year its not going to work because you will have very very poor germination wihout a kill off first. Guess what? They did it anyway . And guess what? It didnt work.
Without killing off existing grass you are waisting your money. 
Cool season guys will have you thinking it can be done because cool season grasses are overseeded every year.
Bermuda is not.
Princes 77 seedlings will absolutly not be able to compete with the common bermuda. Pushing Nitroge will only make it happier for the common bermuda.
You will have some germination in bare areas but not much. I would say maybe 10% and that being gracious.
If it was that easy to transition from common to a higher quality by simply core aeration and laying down different seed then no one would ever do a full lawn renovation. 
Also the princes77 in patches with common will look horrible together. it will stand out from the road. Common stands out in my Yukon yard and I shake my head everytime i look at it.

Yes mowing low will help princes take over (below 1/2 inch) but its gonna have a hell of a time establishing. And the princes take over will take 2-3 years.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

I think Telly is spot on. During those 6 weeks that you can't mow the common Bermuda will choke out your seeds. While it won't be growing as fast as it will in July, 6 weeks is a long time to let established Bermuda grow.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Tellycoleman said:


> I like your game plan however your plan has a problem.
> If you want to have a common bermuda lawn It will be easy to esablish. By the way 1 pound of N per 1000 isnt pushing nitrogen.
> The problem you will have is with having princess 77- Riviera- or Yukon grow from seed in a non renovated lawn.
> Many have tried during this spring. I told 3 people on this forum this year its not going to work because you will have very very poor germination wihout a kill off first. Guess what? They did it anyway . And guess what? It didnt work.
> ...


10-4...I hear ya loud and clear...an to be honest I have read what you have said many times...and I guess it was just wishful thinking...so thank for helping me....

So that being said what should I do...kill off the lawn in just not and option...so my only other game plan would be pruchase some 419 hybrid bermuda....or I could even purchase some TIF TUF Bermuda and plug away.

The 419 in my area is 185 dollars for 500 square feet.

The TIF TUF is 300 dollars for 400 square feet.

My front lawn is roughly 4,000 square feet.

So I could purchase 2 pallets of 419 for `370 dollars...and plug 3 inch by 3 inch squares all through the front yard.

And then about what 2 or 3 weeks...???....once the roots are established I could start pushing nitrogen?

Would this work?

And if this would work...how quickly after plugging could I start pushing nitrogen???

Thanks for the help!


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

I think Sprigging would be your best option.
However That would require a kill also.
Just asking why is a kill out the question? Will your HOA lose their mind? Or glyphosate isnt allowed?

Could you kill half the yard sprig it in tif tuf. Then push nitrogen from day one and 30 days later do the other side?

So if you cant kill how about renting a sod cutter? Can you rip up all the grass you have and then sprig? Also push nitrogen from the start.

What you proposed might work. Even though I have never seen it on that big of scale without a kill. A proplugger will be a good option to use to transfer sod to the yard.
But i could NOT imagine the work you need to do 4,000 square feet of plugging. You will work about a million times harder plugging than doing a Kill. With poorer results
I honestly dont see it working in the way you want it. Tif tif and 419 are aggresive but so is common. with such a little amount plugged i dont see you making a dent into transitioning the yard.

Without the option of getting rid of your current grass I believe you will have to keep what you have.
Maybe others will have ideas


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Tellycoleman said:


> I think Sprigging would be your best option.
> However That would require a kill also.
> Just asking why is a kill out the question? Will your HOA lose their mind? Or glyphosate isnt allowed?
> 
> ...


Thank again Telly for the help.

To answer a couple of good questions to help the forum.

I could kill off half the yard with glyphosate....but from what I had read and understand you can't kill common bermuda with glysophate. Solarization of the soil is the only option which would take a very long time.

I sprayed glyphosate on a section of my common bermuda this past year...sprayed it very good and it turned brown looked like dead grass and 4 weeks later it comes back again and again....its some tuff stuff.

It was at that point that I realized if you can't beat them join them with the bermuda.

So I kind of figured the common is here to stay.

Oddly enough I have a small section of 419 in my yard that I have no idea how it got there but it was prob the size of 4 feet by x 4 feet section...very small and with me fertilizing my yard for the first time ever "i just got into lawncare this year as a hobby" ....that section of 419 has spread like crazy and took off this year.

I even had the idea of spraying just that section with liquid fertilizer about every 2 weeks and seeing if I could speed up the spreading process...???

Anyway thats were my original idea of princess 77 came into play...because you can overseed 419 and they look similar...but again I think you are right about the idea of they will never germinate.

Again I am just now learning about lawn care...but when I saw the 419 take off this year in my yard...I just was thinking if I plugged more of it and kept up the fertilizer maybe it would take over 2 years from now.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

So the Bermuda that I have is common bermuda...so should I just stick with this...get a reel mower and hit it hard with nitrogen and not worry about plugging 419 or seeding another Bermuda variety?

I am fine with that...if thats the best course of action...Its just I have been told over and over and read over and over to believe the common bermuda is not a desirable lawn?

Thanks!


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