# My Lawn pretty much died over the winter (now with soil test results)



## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

Hi,
Thank you for accepting me to the forum. Three years ago, we had all the trees taken out of our property and installed yard. It's a half acre lot and I always wanted a nice lawn. I also had them install an irrigation system. After 2 years of drought and numerous mistakes in lawn, I finally did some research by watching the lawn care nut on YouTube. Last summer I started putting down Milorganite, aerated, and over-seeded in the fall with Ryegrass.

Mistakes I have made in the past:
Not fertilizing enough.
Seeding in July in a drought.
Watering for 15 minutes twice a day instead of 3 times a week.
Cutting the lawn too short in the fall.

The weather in New Hampshire is has been crazy for the last few years. April has been crazy cold for the entire month. Last Monday, it was 35 degrees out and snowing. It's been in the 60's this week. 5 days, ago, I took the temperature of the soil using my cheap soil thermometer from Amazon. It was 44 degrees. Today, it's 49 degrees.

Here is how the lawn looks. 









I don't have a pic from last year, but here is what it looked like before I killed the weeds.









Here is the Forsythia









Temp Gauge









My question: Do I need to wait until the lawn greens up before I apply Crabgrass preventer? I don't want to miss the window, but I also don't want to kill my dormant lawn. I am not over-seeding this spring.


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

Welcome! This place is awesome!

You will not kill the lawn with a pre-m app. Looks like the southern half of NH is in the "optimum" range according to GDD tracker. Plug in your zip and click on "Crabgrass pre" on the right. I would think NH is too cold for ryegrass; I was looking at NTEP tests of ryegrass in Massachusetts and most cultivars have anywhere from 30-90% winter kill. A fescue blend may work better in your area when you seed in the fall. Best of luck!

http://www.gddtracker.net/?model=7&offset=0&zip=06786


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

Thank you for replying! My lawn was the last one in the area to come back last year I think. I should know better, but I look at all the brown and think '"OMG it's dead"


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Welcome to the forum!

If you haven't already, definitely read Welcome to Cool Season Lawn Forum. That post by @g-man has plenty of tips and tricks.

What product of crabgrass preventer are you planning on applying?


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

ericgautier said:


> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> If you haven't already, definitely read Welcome to Cool Season Lawn Forum. That post by @g-man has plenty of tips and tricks.
> 
> What product of crabgrass preventer are you planning on applying?


Unfortunately, I purchased and opened a bag of Scott's crabgrass control with Fertilizer before finding this forum. It was all they had in stock at Agway. I've already opened the bag so I can't return it.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Use what you got. :thumbsup: You should be ok.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

I would go ahead and drop it to prevent the annual weeds.

I had the same situation where I couldn't source the pre-emergent I wanted without fertilizer. I dropped it late Feb here. The lawn wasn't awake and tolerated without problem.

Of course I found 3 bags of what I wanted 2 weeks later... I bought them all for the next 2 seasons.


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

Don't sweat it, it can be applied now


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

Thanks guys. I'll post updates as the seasons progress.


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## Doug E Dee (Oct 19, 2017)

Welcome and greetings from Epping!


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

I'm afraid I've killed my lawn. It's looks awful. I would have been better off just doing nothing the last two years. What a waste. You can see where the lawn tractor left tracks in some of the pictures. I'll throw some Millorganite down tonight and just forget about it until I can reseed in the fall.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

It does look like you got hit with some winter kill there. I think like has been mentioned rye might not be the way to go for your area. Maybe look into what KBG varieties do good in your area. I don't think I'd do nothing until fall though. Do a soil test from a lab of your choice and see if you can spend the spring summer amending any deficiencys the soil might have. Then when you seed in the fall the soil will be in better shape.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Did you apply the prem?


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

I can get it tested, but the soil was delivered 4 years ago. My neighbor got hers from the same place and her lawn looks great.

Yes, I did apply the perm. I assume that means overseeding is out for a few months.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

87Fethers said:


> I can get it tested, but the soil was delivered 4 years ago. My neighbor got hers from the same place and her lawn looks great.


When testing the soil you usually get the soil from about the 3"-4" level. I guess when you got your soil delivered you just spread it on the top maybe 1" or so? I'd definitely get a soil test either way to know what the soil is like where the grass roots are.


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> When testing the soil you usually get the soil from about the 3"-4" level. I guess when you got your soil delivered you just spread it on the top maybe 1" or so? I'd definitely get a soil test either way to know what the soil is like where the grass roots are.


It was full redo. They put down about 4 inches of soil from what I saw. I could dig it up to check.

Here is a photo album

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7oaMmQ9NyF1JnAks1


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Did you water in the fertilizer/pre emergent that you put down?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

New top soil might still be deficient in nutrients. Also some of the nutrient could move deeper in the soil and not be available.

Overseeding seems to be out. You might get some germination going with a heavy seed rate. I was going to suggest PRG now (for a quick lawn), then kill it in summer and then seed with KBG. For your weather/area KBG should do better than PRG during the winter. @ken-n-nancy also live in NH and could share some of their experiences.


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

Jconnelly6b said:


> Did you water in the fertilizer/pre emergent that you put down?


It rained pretty much every day since I put it down.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Curious as to how things are going now nearly a couple weeks later. Some of the grass in my lawn was slow to wake up; you may have actually seen a fair bit of recovery in the sections that appeared all brown a couple weeks ago.

How is the lawn looking now?


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

Still looks terrible. I'm trying to come up with a plan. Here is what I have so far:

1) Get soil tested (where? Agway?)
2) Fix soil
3) Stop running over lawn over and over with the mower. (you can see the tracks where I killed it)
4) Stop running my irrigation system (I haven't turned it on this year as we have had plenty of rain)
5) Kill all the weeds in June (there are not many)
6) Aerate August 1st (rental)
7) Rent Slice seeder on August 15th 
8) Seed with Fescue mix. 
9) Water 2X a day until it germinates (should germinate around 9/1)
10) Figure out a water schedule that doesn't suck
11) Leave it long over the winter
12) slice seed again in the spring


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

some current photos


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

I have a question for you...
Did you by any chance mow the lawn during freezing or near freezing temps last Fall, or have vehicle traffic go over it in such conditions? If so, it could be traffic damage. If not, it could be Winter kill from cold weather or disease.


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

Green said:


> I have a question for you...
> Did you by any chance mow the lawn during freezing or near freezing temps last Fall, or have vehicle traffic go over it in such conditions? If so, it could be traffic damage. If not, it could be Winter kill from cold weather or disease.


I used the riding mower to pick up the leaves, so yes I think that played a major factor.


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## LIgrass (May 26, 2017)

Have you tried raking it up to get rid of the mattiness? I think I've seen this before where people thought their entire lawn was dead but it was actually snow mold and it recovered fast when they raked it up. I don't have much experience with snow mold or winter disease but my first instinct would be to rake it all up when it's like that. It looks like it's already recovering slowly from the first pics to now.


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

LIgrass said:


> Have you tried raking it up to get rid of the mattiness? I think I've seen this before where people thought their entire lawn was dead but it was actually snow mold and it recovered fast when they raked it up. I don't have much experience with snow mold or winter disease but my first instinct would be to rake it all up when it's like that. It looks like it's already recovering slowly from the first pics to now.


I had the same thoughts over the winter, so I raked the entire yard with plastic rake to brake up the snow mold. It's not actually filling in in the latest pictures. Instead what you are seeing is the grass that didn't die is getting longer, covering up the bare spots a little.


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

I'm still planning to overseed with a rented slice seeder in late August, so I've started by spraying some quinclorac with a sprayer, but it's too much lawn to do by hand. Any suggestions on a weed killer that I can use that is usually available locally?

Some pictures of the lawn right now.


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

Progress report!

I killed every last piece of crabgrass with Quini 75DF. Took 3 applications.

I cut the lawn shorter over the last two weeks to prepare for overseeding. Today I rented a self propelled Slice seeder, and the machine promptly kicked my *** for 3 hours. I went through a 50 pound bag of Blue-Seal's evergreen mix and I threw down some starter. Tomorrow I'll try to find some Milo.


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

Status update. I rented a slice seeder and over-seeded three weeks ago. At first, I was a bit disappointed with it but It worked really well on the level spots. Lessons learned for me for next year are buy double the seed you think you will need and turn that baby up to 11!

The bare spots you see here are the ones where the seeder didn't dig in enough. For these, I create my own patching mix: wheelbarrow full of dirt, add 3 shovels of peatmoss, throw seed down on top and mix it up. Then dump it on the ground in a thin layer. Works amazing for germination and costs a lot less than the store made stuff. I just threw those down earlier this week so they haven't germinated yet.







I still need to go through some of the spots near the pavement and add more patch mix.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

That's looking good.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Sounds like you had the same experience with slit seeder i did, wasnt worth the trouble because unless your lawn is perfectly flat it doesnt cut the slits properly.


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Sounds like you had the same experience with slit seeder i did, wasnt worth the trouble because unless your lawn is perfectly flat it doesnt cut the slits properly.


I think it was worth it, but I would set it to go deeper and watch the amount of seed dropping. I would also do the patches first!


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

87Fethers said:


> FuzzeWuzze said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like you had the same experience with slit seeder i did, wasnt worth the trouble because unless your lawn is perfectly flat it doesnt cut the slits properly.
> ...


I read a recommendation that makes more sense to me next time i do it, thats to run the slit machine multiple passes empty, then broadcast the seed normally. The seeds fall into and get washed into the slits and covered with the dirt pulled from the slits during watering.


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## GMM (Jul 18, 2018)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> 87Fethers said:
> 
> 
> > FuzzeWuzze said:
> ...


It's been recommended to me and working really well on my renovation to:

1. Broadcast seed in one direction (east to west) at 1/2 rate.
2. Go over the yard with the slit seeder empty
3. Broadcast seed in the other direction (south to north) at 1/2 rate
4. Go over with the empty slit seeder at a 45 degree angle to your first pass


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

Winter wasn't kind to my Lawn. I took a soil sample and sent it to UNH


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

Its a work in progress. I've been at it 2 and half years and I still have work to do. Get down a pre-emergent to prevent crabgrass if you havent already. Seed again in the fall in the bare spots. I would avoid anything with a large percentage of perennial ryegrass due to the huge amount of winter kill in cold climates. Did it look good all the way until snow was falling? Any signs of disease late fall?

Let us know what your soil test comes back with.


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## Darrell_KC (Mar 20, 2019)

I cant really tell from the pictures, but in the dead area, is that dead grass, or dirt? You might want to take a regular rake, and start raking and see what comes out. I started raking my grass this spring, and I was amazed how much dead material came out. In those areas, Im seeing new growth. If it is dead grass, get it off the lawn and open up the soil. All the dead grass will do is choke anything else from coming up.


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

I put preM down last weekend, which was right on schedule. It's dead grass, not dirt. I'll end up raking it out and planting seed in the fall, and maybe try some patching.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Don't be so hard on yourself. I just re-read your thread and this looks so much better than last year. A little fertilizer and it will fill in and look beautiful!


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Is it possible this is salt damage from the road? It looks like a lot of the bad sections are adjacent to the road. Does your area salt or brine the roads? Do you snow blow along the road, which can transfer salt etc. to the middle of your yard? I know in high snow areas it is hard to keep the grass along the roads alive because of the heat in the summer and then the salt, snow, sand and other debris in the winter...


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

Stuofsci02 said:


> Is it possible this is salt damage from the road? It looks like a lot of the bad sections are adjacent to the road. Does your area salt or brine the roads? Do you snow blow along the road, which can transfer salt etc. to the middle of your yard? I know in high snow areas it is hard to keep the grass along the roads alive because of the heat in the summer and then the salt, snow, sand and other debris in the winter...


Some of it is salt damage. The part near the road downhill from the pavement so it gets a lot of runoff with salt in it.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

87Fethers said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> > Is it possible this is salt damage from the road? It looks like a lot of the bad sections are adjacent to the road. Does your area salt or brine the roads? Do you snow blow along the road, which can transfer salt etc. to the middle of your yard? I know in high snow areas it is hard to keep the grass along the roads alive because of the heat in the summer and then the salt, snow, sand and other debris in the winter...
> ...


If you're looking to do any seeding, search NTEP for salt tolerant cultivars of whatever variety of grass you are looking to use. Another option is to add Alkaligrass seed to your mix. It's the most salt tolerant of any cool season grasses. I've used Fults II alkaligrass at work for seawater intrusions and along road shoulders with success. Preferred Seed popped up as a source when I Googled it to check the spelling


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

Soil Test results are back! Let me know what you guys think


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Their recommendations are correct. Wait around 6 months from the initial lime of 50lb to the second one of 19lb. No Milo or phosphorus. Try to find SOP for K.


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

g-man said:


> Their recommendations are correct. Wait around 6 months from the initial lime of 50lb to the second one of 19lb. No Milo or phosphorus. Try to find SOP for K.


What's SOP?
Also, I"ve got about 18,000 square feet. That's quite a bit of Lime?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Yes it is quiet a bit of lime. You can break it up into 10lb/month to make it easier on the budget, but that's still 180lb a month.

Sulfate of potash (0-0-50) is a source of potassium. It is hard to find. Muriate of potash (0-0-60) is easier to find and cheaper, but it is not as nice to the soil. SOP will be applied at 2lb/ksqft and MOP at 1.6lb/ksqft monthly in the months the lawn is growing (not drought or winter).


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

Your damage the last 2 years looks familiar. Have you considered snow mold? Perennial rye is much more susceptible than KBG, and I imagine you get prolonged snow cover in NH almost every year.

If you want PR then you probably need to regularly overseed and consider a late fall app of fungicide or something to try and minimize damage over winter from fungus. Also avoid fall fertilization practices that may encourage fungus and new growth that dies back easily.

If your neighbors lawn is great check out what species she is using.


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

So the lawn actually bounced back! I put the SoP down and the have been working on the PH with SoCal and Lime. This weekend I plan to put some more lime down and get ready to overseed on Labor day.

If anyone can tell me what kind of grass this looks like I would appreciate it.


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## Drewmey (Oct 3, 2018)

Just read this entire thread. Enjoy seeing all the yearly updates.

In my opinion that last picture looks like Fescue. Which makes sense for what I think is occurring every year. I believe that you are getting snow mold every winter like has been mentioned. Your fescue/rye mix has gotten progressively more Fescue and less rye, as the Fescue has been more tolerant of the cold temperatures and snow mold. I think if you keep it up, the existing Fescue can do well for many years.

To make your life easier (long term), I would try to overseed with some KBG that has good tolerance to snow mold (would have to research). Overseeding KBG is not particularly easy but can be done. I would soak the KBG seed in water for 3 days, mixing by hand several times a day. This helps the kbg germinate faster. Cut the Fescue very short. It will not look particularly good but will survive. The same day, mix the soaked KBG seed with an extremely low NPK fertilizer (1-0-1, 0-0-7, whatever you can find, low nitrogen better in this case). This low NPK fertilizer will make it easier to spread the wet kbg seed.

The reason I suggest this somewhat harder approach of overseeding kbg into your Fescue is that the KBG will "self heal" next spring if you be any winter damage (as it has rhizomes that cause it to spread). I think that over time it will prevent you from having to play this game of "winter death" and "fall overseed", year after year. It will begin to repair itself in the spring so that you don't be too overseed every year.


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

That's a tall order. I really don't mind going to an all Fescue yard, but I will keep that in mind for next year. I might even experiment with doing the back yard in 100% *** and seeing how it does next year!


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

Also, if I learned anything about Lawns it's this:

1) don't bother planting grass in the spring. it will probably die in July if you do
2) Pre-emergent is really important. A week early is better than a week late
3) Kill weeds in July/early August
4) Labor day is grass planting day.


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## Drewmey (Oct 3, 2018)

87Fethers said:


> That's a tall order. I really don't mind going to an all Fescue yard, but I will keep that in mind for next year. I might even experiment with doing the back yard in 100% *** and seeing how it does next year!


There's no "one right way". So this is a perfectly fine solution. I was just suggesting something that may make life easier in the long term.

I have a similar problem but it is summer related. Always get dead spots/sections/thinning due to summer fungus. The plan is to get some KBG in the mix so I am simply fertilizing to fix spots instead of reseeding. Unfortunately can't do it this year as I want to take care of a Poa Annua problem first. One of the herbicides I'll be using (Ethofumesate) is not super compatible with seeding KBG.


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

Here is how is looks as of today with my September over seeding growing in. I think those light green areas are bent grass, and that's something I will try to attack next year.

The Lawn sure has come a long way over the last 2 years.


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## Tbow555 (Sep 26, 2019)

Read through all of your posts. Thanks for following up on your progress and kudos to you for sticking to a plan. I will be starting the same reno next year after thoroughly reading the posts on here. These guys are good! I have missed my window to do an extensive repair, but I was able to dethatch and overseed over the last two weeks, just to get started. Time moves slow when you're impatient. LOL I will be starting off next year by using your trial and error process.
Congrats!


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## 87Fethers (Apr 25, 2018)

Tbow555 said:


> Read through all of your posts. Thanks for following up on your progress and kudos to you for sticking to a plan. I will be starting the same reno next year after thoroughly reading the posts on here. These guys are good! I have missed my window to do an extensive repair, but I was able to dethatch and overseed over the last two weeks, just to get started. Time moves slow when you're impatient. LOL I will be starting off next year by using your trial and error process.
> Congrats!


Thanks. For me, the most important thing was getting that pre-emergent down on time. Once you do that, the rest is easy.


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