# ChicagoLawn's soil test and questions thread



## ChicagoLawn (Apr 7, 2019)

So last year I had a lot of my bluegrass die in my back yard. I believe I had a huge part in the kill off due to the fact that I got really aggressive with tenacity and CCO to kill off creeping charlie and clover that have been a thorn on my side for years now. So after the spraying, the bluegrass mix of blueberry, prosperity and blue velvet did not do so well but the charlie and clover are thriving really great still. I tried doing a reseed of the dead areas using Mazama and even though I have some germination the growth has been so slow and the areas still so spotty (I went heavy on the seed) that I know for certain now something is up with my soil. I dug out about 15 different areas of my back yard and sent a sample to Waypoint Iowa for testing. They should receive the soil on Friday so I should have results by Tue or Wed at the latest. One other thing that I noticed was very compact soil. I had a super hard time using the pro plugger to go down even 1 or 2 inches to get the samples. What should I do to loosen the soil? Should I hit it with baby shampoo or a mix with it in that or rent the aerator machine and aerate the lawn? My only concern with Aerating is the fact that I will need to aerate it multiple times and that can be expensive. The size of the rear yard that is grass is about 10k sq ft. Thanks very much.


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## ChicagoLawn (Apr 7, 2019)

Soil results came in this morning.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Typical Chicago awesome soil. Sit back and enjoy a beer.

Use Ammonium sulfate for nitrogen and a chelated or FAS iron. Add a fertilizer with potassium once a year as a maintenance strategy.


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## ChicagoLawn (Apr 7, 2019)

I am surprised by the results as I am having a hard time growing grass properly in my lawn. I strongly suspect the soil hardness is really affecting me. I think I will aerate and maybe hit it with baby shampoo. Is there anything else that I can do to improve growth? It is looking like I am doing a full reno in August. Thanks


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Post a picture?


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

A basic soil test doesn't report enough information to suggest/eliminate nutrient/soil conditions that might be a source of your problem. Your Mg levels are a bit high with Ca:Mg ratios about 3:1. Although not considered detrimental to plant health, higher Mg levels can create "tight" soil which can impede water percolation and root growth. It is possible that acidification could release additional Ca and improve soil tilth in a calcitic limestone soil, however, it may be that your soil is dolo limestone based (some areas on the Canadian side of the Great Lakes have high dolo content). Another option to adjust Ca:Mg ratios and reducing Mg content is the addition of Gypsum. Results for improvement of soil tilth vary. IMO, baring an unknown/untested soil variable, a method with better outcome would be aeration and sand capping. On .5 acre, that's going to be a challenge unless you do smaller areas each year.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Typical chicago soil. You should be able to grow some good grass on it. I'm a bit west, but you can see a similar Ca:Mg ratio.



@Ridgerunner gave some good suggestions to help with the Ca:Mg ratio, and is likely a reason why you describe your soil as being "hard". I'm seeing some positive results with gypsum, but it will take a good amount of it to move those numbers. In 2016 my Ca:Mg ratio was 1.39:1 . A couple years (and 117 lbs/M of gypsum) later my Ca:Mg ratio is only 2.33:1 .


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The soil has 8% OM, which makes me think the soil can't be so hard to explain why the grass is not growing. There has to be an explanation to the grass not growing.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

g-man said:


> The soil has 8% OM, which makes me think the soil can't be so hard to explain why the grass is not growing. There has to be an explanation to the grass not growing.


Agreed, and a 3.13:1 ratio would still grow good grass.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

> I'm seeing some positive results with gypsum, but it will take a good amount of it to move those numbers. In 2016 my Ca:Mg ratio was 1.39:1 . A couple years (and 117 lbs/M of gypsum) later my Ca:Mg ratio is only 2.33:1 .


That's a pretty large change in ratios. Have you seen any change in soil tilth (tightness)? My experience was: no.. Aeration and sand (actually sand and some peat moss) is the only technique that improved my turf stand in the areas where the soil was "hard" and grass struggled.
Every soil test from the Chicago area that I've seen has been nutrient rich, so if that trend stand, OP's issue is not nutrient based. Most likely a soil structure issue or a cultural practice (e.g.watering).
Agree with g-man that pictures might help, including one of the hole from the removal of a shovel full of earth. Not sure if I buy the 8% OM results.


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## ChicagoLawn (Apr 7, 2019)

I will post pics tonight. Should I have paid extra to get the more detailed soil test? Btw, the weeds have had zero issue growing LOL. I dropped down bluegrass multiple times this spring and used peat moss as top soil. There were only small areas that took in the soil but most areas did not. If I look at one pot I was growing extra seed in that I started even later and it has surpassed the grass in my soil already. I am using rotary sprinklers and have set them up to run for 10 min every 4 hours. We've had a lot of rain, some came in very hard so washout might have occurred multiple times but not to this point.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

The grass germinated and then died off or it failed to germinate (70+%)? What % of germination did you have? Are you attempting to seed into weed cover?


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## ChicagoLawn (Apr 7, 2019)

Here are the disaster pics below. The green grass areas were existing from my previous reno. The bare spots happened last year and I tried to overseed with bluegrass to have something. The germination rate is 75% on the Mazama bag but I'm confident my issue isn't with the seed since it grew fine in the pots and certain areas. I do see a lot of areas with very sporadic germination but not like you normally see when doing a reno or overseed.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Ridgerunner said:


> That's a pretty large change in ratios. Have you seen any change in soil tilth (tightness)?


I have, but dont really have a true control to compare it too. The improvement I see could also just be the result of growing good grass as well.



Ridgerunner said:


> Not sure if I buy the 8% OM results.


Some Chicagoland soils can be really high in OM. I lived in Mt. Prospect(NW suburb of Chicago) and had OM numbers ranging from 7.3% in the front yard in 2014 to 13.1% in the back yard in 2015. Both were taken from the 3-4" depth(before I knew better) and the results were from Logan labs.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@ChicagoLawn, for trying to grow in some new grass, it looks like the soil needs more water.


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## ChicagoLawn (Apr 7, 2019)

We had a very wet May and had plenty of rainfall which is when most of the seed should have germinated. At this point I have given up to fix this in spring time for obvious reasons but I want to make sure come Aug I am prepared and ready since I have a lot of area to fix.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Gotcha. With all the rain we had mid May thru the first couple days in June, it would have been very difficult to keep the seed from washing away.


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## ChicagoLawn (Apr 7, 2019)

Pete1313 said:


> Gotcha. With all the rain we had mid May thru the first couple days in June, it would have been very difficult to keep the seed from washing away.


Yup, thinking that did not help me at all since a lot of areas where I put peat moss just disappeared which means so did seed :lol:

This was a very hard and expensive learning experience for me.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Germination isn't dependent on soil nutrients. Seed is self contained. All it needs is moisture and conducive temps/sunlight. You can germinate and raise 1" tall seedlings on a wet paper towel on a window sill. You do have some soil structure issues as indicated by the cracking (btw,, as @Pete1313 your soil is dry). Cracking occurs when certain types of clay swell when wet, then crack as they dry out. High Sodium levels can also create swelling in most any type of clay. This can be a sign of soil dispersion that hinders water and root penetration and can create compaction. Maybe @BenC can diagnose the issue and suggest a remedy.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@ChicagoLawn this is heart breaking, but we will learn from it. Can you share what is your irrigation strategy/system?

We had a cold spring and also slows down germination on top of the downpours.


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## BenC (Mar 27, 2018)

That soil test doesn't match what we see in the pics. Is the cracking deep or is that just the pest moss you applied cracking? Unless the soil is physically restricted, I don't see this as a soil issue. Are the seed still there? Hate to ask dumb questions; but did the birds eat your seeds?


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## ChicagoLawn (Apr 7, 2019)

I have above ground rotary sprinklers that I use for irrigation until I have the budget to get a professional one installed. I have them running on a timer. 
Certain areas of the soil are very deep cracks while other areas are more shallow. The worst cracked areas are the bare areas of the soil where I have no grass. I do not think the birds were a factor in this since I was using primarily peat moss and one smaller area ez-straw.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Keeping seed moist is hard for that large area. Rotary sprinklers are good at throwing water far, but not close to them.

The cracking of soil will happen if it bakes in the sun without any grass to provide shade and no moisture. During seeding, you can't let it dry up ever, it kills the seeds.


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## ChicagoLawn (Apr 7, 2019)

I will def replace the rotaries with standard sprinklers then for when I do the reno in Aug. I have 2 automatic timers so I can potentially put up to 8 sprinklers out in the area (none would run at same time)


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Develop your irrigation approach now, before you need it in August.

Also, I don't recommend the ezstraw. It is 1% weed.


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## ChicagoLawn (Apr 7, 2019)

I did not like the ez-straw at all. It was my first time using it over peat moss and IMO the moss is easier to work with.


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