# Blanket Celsius App Question (+ Sedge)



## mrigney (Jun 6, 2017)

Hey fellow lawn enthusiasts,

Been a while since I've been around much. As I'm sure most know, life gets busy. Trying to get my yard back to where it was two summers ago (not that it was bad last summer, but ended up cutting w/a rotary the second half of the summer b/c of problems w/my McLane). Been cutting it at about 0.75" (scalped at the lowest setting on my McLane).

So far this spring, seeing more weed pressure than they last two years. Mainly poa annua, I think. Also have significantly more sedge than in years past.

I'm about to put down some prodiamine for pre-e (yeah, I didn't get an app down back in Feb/March, but better late than never). I also want to do a blanket spray of Celsisus to get rid of as much of the weed pressure as I can. But, my understanding is Celsius isn't effective against poa annua).

1) I'm in North Alabama and it's still pretty cool. Would you wait to spray Celsius until it warms up a little bit (upper 30s tonight, but highs in the mid 80s by next weekend).

2) What's the best product to add for sedge control? Sedgehammer? Certainty?

3) What should I be using to control the poa annua (besides making sure I could a good pre-e app down)?

Can I put down the Celsisus/sedge control/and poa annua control all in one app?

Thanks in advance!


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## mrigney (Jun 6, 2017)

Or I suppose Image is another option for the sedges?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Welcome Back!! 

Honestly I wouldn't worry too much about the Poa as it will fade away once the temperatures start to rise but spraying the Celsius on it will definitely put a hurting on it. I would recommend Certainty as it doesn't have any temperature restrictions just like Celsius. You can combine all 3 together(Celsius, Certainty and Prodiamine) and spray at once if you want to and that will take care of about 99% of the weeds in your lawn. The Certainty should definitely take care of the poa if the Celsius doesn't, not sure if either one is labeled for it, I probably need to go check . I wouldn't worry too much about the temperatures, it will just cause the herbicides to work a little slower is all. If the temps are still on the cool side you could add some NIS or MSO to the mix to help kick it up a notch and give it a faster kill.


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## lambert (Sep 12, 2018)

Certainty is labeled for poa, but I wonder how effective it is on mature poa this time of the year. Certainty is a great sedge/killinga product. Why not use something like Speedzone while the temps are cooler. A Speedzone/Certainty mix would kill a lot of weeds.


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## mrigney (Jun 6, 2017)

Are there any advantages other than a quicker kill for something like Speedzone over Celsius? I have Celsius on hand, and try not to accumulate too many random herbicides in my shed if I don't need them. Gotta stretch my lawn budget as far as I can


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

mrigney said:


> Are there any advantages other than a quicker kill for something like Speedzone over Celsius? I have Celsius on hand, and try not to accumulate too many random herbicides in my shed if I don't need them. Gotta stretch my lawn budget as far as I can


I think that is the only advantage of Speedzone over Celsius but once temps get above 85F you can't really use Speedzone anymore without damaging the Bermuda. I would just spray the Celsius/Certainty mix and wait 30 days and then reevaluate as you might just need to do a spot spray to clean up the rest of the weeds you missed.


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## lambert (Sep 12, 2018)

mrigney said:


> Are there any advantages other than a quicker kill for something like Speedzone over Celsius? I have Celsius on hand, and try not to accumulate too many random herbicides in my shed if I don't need them. Gotta stretch my lawn budget as far as I can


Celsius is really slow in cooler temps, and the season max application rate is really low -- you get one high rate app and one low rate app for an entire calendar year. I save Celsius for hot temps.


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## mrigney (Jun 6, 2017)

Finally got my Certainty. Will be spraying ASAP and will report back. Poa is starting to die off; will be glad when it's gone. The Celebration itself is really starting to look pretty good.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Let's see photos of the celebration.

Also, might need two apps on the poa.


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## mrigney (Jun 6, 2017)

We'll see how the Poa looks in a few weeks. Here's a couple of pictures of the Celebration after I cut today. It has really greened up the last week and a half


This is looking to the south in the yard. Got the garden on the left hand side there with weeds creeping out around that (try not to spray the garden so that's always an issue...thinking about a permanent border of some sort).


This is looking back the other direction. You can pretty clearly see the patches of poa in the middle of the yard (and a couple more you can't really see at the other end of the yard near that plum tree). Overall pretty happy w/it at this point. Obviously a lot of work to do to get up to the level of a lot of folks here, but looking forward to seeing how things go the rest of the summer.

Outside the fence that direction is my "jungle". That side yard has become dominated by clover over the last couple of years. It used to be a wasteland of about a dozen different kinds of weeds. I started taking care of it and now I'm down to clover only. Not really sure where to go with it. But that's a different story.


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## gooodawgs (Jul 10, 2020)

@Mightyquinn I wanted to bring this thread back to ask 2 questions.

1) When you mix Prodiamine, Celsius and Certainty in one tank do you use a surfactant? I know prodiamine obviously is for the soil, but wondering how to get the post-ems to stick to the weeds.

2) For spray nozzles, would you recommend using the foliar jet nozzles to try and get more mist on the weeds?

Planning to put the spreader mate to work on Thursday :thumbup:


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

gooodawgs said:


> @Mightyquinn I wanted to bring this thread back to ask 2 questions.
> 
> 1) When you mix Prodiamine, Celsius and Certainty in one tank do you use a surfactant? I know prodiamine obviously is for the soil, but wondering how to get the post-ems to stick to the weeds.
> 
> ...


1) If you are spraying in cooler weather you should be fine to add some NIS or MSO to the mix, just follow the directions on the bottle. When the temps are above 80F I would NOT use any surfactant with Celsius or Certainty as you may get some discoloring around the area you spray if you are spot spraying.

2) I would use the foliar jet nozzles as that is the main chemical you want to work the best. As long as you get some rain or irrigation in the next 2 weeks following application the Prodiamine will be fine as it will get washed down into the soil.


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## Herring (Sep 19, 2020)

Mightyquinn said:


> gooodawgs said:
> 
> 
> > @Mightyquinn I wanted to bring this thread back to ask 2 questions.
> ...


I would also like to ask, when tank mixing Celsius and Certainty, do you disregard the amount of carrier per 1,000sqft? For example, low rate of Celsius is 1.6 grams, low rate of Certainty would be .16 grams, combined in one gallon of water to treat 1,000sqft. The Certainty label says two gallons per thousand, could the same low rate be put in 1 gallon if applied evenly over 1,000sqft? I searched the forum and only saw Certainty measured by the scoop (mine doesn't have one).


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

If it was me spraying, I would go with the following:

Celsius: 2.4g/1000 sq/ft in 1 gallon of water
Certainty:* .4g*/1000 sq/ft in 1 gallon of water
Prodiamine: .40 oz/1000 sq/ft in 1 gallon of water

*Be sure to remember that you are going between GRAMS and OUNCES and don't forget about the decimal points either as you do NOT want to get them confused as it happens to all of us!!

The reasoning for my application recommendations as follows:

Celsius- I usually spray the MEDIUM rate if I am going to be doing a broadcast application as it will still leave you room to apply another one later in the season if required and it will knock out most weeds that you have currently growing.

Certainty- The recommendations on the label are for the amount of product in 2 gallons of water, since you will be using just 1 gallon of water for your carrier(I am assuming this) you need to cut the amount of Certainty in HALF so the concentration will be the same. I went with the 1.25oz/A rate which is* .8 grams* in 2 gallons of water(this is what I cut in half) as that will take out most sedges and other weeds in the lawn. You can always spot spray later in the year if need be.

Prodiamine- This is half of your yearly MAXIMUM and should get you through until the Fall when you can apply the other half for the Fall and Winter. Remember that this is in FRACTION OUNCES per 1000 sq/ft.

After spraying, as long as the concoction dries you should be good to go and as long as you get a .25" of rain with in the next 2 weeks the Prodiamine will be activated. Also expect a good 3-4 weeks for the weeds you do have to start to die off with the cooler weather this time of year.

If you want to add NIS, it would be .32 oz/Gallon of water.

I think I have covered everything, please let me know if you have any questions or further explanation on what I covered.


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## Goose165 (Jun 10, 2019)

Mightyquinn said:


> If it was me spraying, I would go with the following:
> 
> Celsius: 2.4g/1000 sq/ft in 1 gallon of water
> Certainty: 4g/1000 sq/ft in 1 gallon of water
> ...


This information was extremely helpful. Thanks you.

Do I mow first and then apply? or Apply and mow the following week? or something else?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

If you are trying to kill actively growing weeds then you would want to wait to mow so there is more leaf surface for the weed killer to attach too.


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## adidasUNT8 (Jul 23, 2020)

Mightyquinn said:


> If it was me spraying, I would go with the following:
> 
> Celsius: 2.4g/1000 sq/ft in 1 gallon of water
> Certainty: 4g/1000 sq/ft in 1 gallon of water
> ...


Hey MightyQuinn. I sprayed Prodiamine a few days ago, but i'm looking at possibly putting down Celsius and Certainty. I'm assuming this is meant to be sprayed as a blanket application for normal upkeep? Spot spraying if things pop back up later down the road? Will this hinder the bermuda at all? We are starting to enter the transition phase here in TX. Thank you in advance.


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## Grumpy Camel (Jun 12, 2020)

Mightyquinn said:


> If it was me spraying, I would go with the following:
> 
> Celsius: 2.4g/1000 sq/ft in 1 gallon of water
> Certainty: 4g/1000 sq/ft in 1 gallon of water
> ...


@Mightyquinn

Could you please confirm the dilution rates you listed, specifically for Certainty. Did you mean .4 grams (not 4 grams)?

I was under the impression to use 1 "large scoop" that comes with the product, per 2 gallons, per 1000 sqft. I believe the large scoop is .8 grams. Ive linked a similar thread below with this information.

Thanks for your input, it is very helpful.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17022&p=297749&hilit=certainty+dilution#p297749


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

@adidasUNT8

Spraying Prodiamine/Celsius/Certainty all at once shouldn't need to be done every year but if you have a infestation of weeds in your lawn it will give you a good leg up to start the season or end the season and then you can usually spot spray after that to get all the stragglers that pop up. I haven't found that broadcast spraying Celsius and Certainty together has had any negative effect on the lawn. When spot spraying this mix just be sure to LIGHTLY mist the weed as over applying can stunt the growth of Bermuda around the weed and have some minor discoloration.

@Grumpy Camel

GOOD CATCH!!! See it happens to the best of us  I did forget to add a decimal point in there and I will be fixing that here very shortly. You would want to use .4 grams in 1 gallon of water per 1000 sq/ft.


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## adidasUNT8 (Jul 23, 2020)

Mightyquinn said:


> @adidasUNT8
> 
> Spraying Prodiamine/Celsius/Certainty all at once shouldn't need to be done every year but if you have a infestation of weeds in your lawn it will give you a good leg up to start the season or end the season and then you can usually spot spray after that to get all the stragglers that pop up. I haven't found that broadcast spraying Celsius and Certainty together has had any negative effect on the lawn. When spot spraying this mix just be sure to LIGHTLY mist the weed as over applying can stunt the growth of Bermuda around the weed and have some minor


If I wanted to go ahead and blanket spray Celsius, would it have much of a negative affect on the Bermuda? Curious on what any negative affects would be for Celsius and certainty


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

adidasUNT8 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> > @adidasUNT8
> ...


I doubt there would be any negative effects on the bermuda especially this time of year as it is still waking up from the Winter. I doubt you will be able to notice even if there was some negatives. Most of the stunting of growth and discoloration that I have seen and experienced has been while spot spraying.


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## adidasUNT8 (Jul 23, 2020)

Mightyquinn said:


> adidasUNT8 said:
> 
> 
> > Mightyquinn said:
> ...


Awesome. Now I just need to find someone splitting a Celsius order. Wife is going to catch on to how much I've been spending lol.


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## Wax0589 (Jun 11, 2020)

Mightyquinn said:


> If it was me spraying, I would go with the following:
> 
> Celsius: 2.4g/1000 sq/ft in 1 gallon of water
> Certainty:* .4g*/1000 sq/ft in 1 gallon of water
> ...


Thank you. Very comprehensive info.


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## bauc54 (Feb 27, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> @adidasUNT8
> 
> Spraying Prodiamine/Celsius/Certainty all at once shouldn't need to be done every year but if you have a infestation of weeds in your lawn it will give you a good leg up to start the season or end the season and then you can usually spot spray after that to get all the stragglers that pop up. I haven't found that broadcast spraying Celsius and Certainty together has had any negative effect on the lawn. When spot spraying this mix just be sure to LIGHTLY mist the weed as over applying can stunt the growth of Bermuda around the weed and have some minor discoloration.
> 
> ...


@Mightyquinn I may have broadcast sprayed(I did spray) this mixture of prodiamine, celsius, and certainty using your original post of 4g of Certainty per 1,000sqft. Oops! Should've done my own research but I saw this post and took a screenshot of your rates. Anywho, I'm not super concerned about it since my lawn is still almost 100% dormant. Any idea what I should expect from my error?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

bauc54 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> > @adidasUNT8
> ...


I apologize about that mistake but I think you should be alright since you sprayed it this time of year you might be a little slow greening back up at the worst case. I'm still kicking myself over that mistake and hope it was caught in time.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> Certainty- The recommendations on the label are for the amount of product in 2 gallons of water, since you will be using just 1 gallon of water for your carrier(I am assuming this) you need to cut the amount of Certainty in HALF so the concentration will be the same. I went with the 1.25oz/A rate which is* .8 grams* in 2 gallons of water(this is what I cut in half) as that will take out most sedges and other weeds in the lawn. You can always spot spray later in the year if need be.


Mr. Quinn, I have a question on this. I've seen so many people use so many different amounts of carrier per 1000k that I'm confused now. I've never sprayed certainty before so maybe it's something with that product but isn't the amount of AI per 1000 more important than carrier volume? If they recommend .8g of product per 1000 wouldn't you want to apply that regardless of carrier? In this instance, isn't the OP applying half the AI per 1000 even though the dilution remains the same? I guess my confusion comes from how we calibrate our sprayers. Some people take .75 gallons per k and some use 1.25 per k but all use the same amount of product per k. Like I said maybe it's something to do with Certainty. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Hopefully you'll drop some knowledge on me.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

The label recommends .8g in 2 gallons of water per 1000 sq/ft. So, if you divide that by 2 you will get .4g in 1 gallon of water per 1,000 sq/ft. The AI will stay the same for the solution. Now, if your application rate is just a little off either way by a quart, I can't see that really being an issue but if you wanted to be really OCD about it you could add or subtract .1g either way for every quart of water you need to subtract or add for your specific spraying calibration.


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## bauc54 (Feb 27, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> bauc54 said:
> 
> 
> > Mightyquinn said:
> ...


No need to apologize at all. It was my mistake. I have the bottle and I should've read up on it before spraying. "Shortcuts make long delays."


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Grass factor says the best thing for sedges is a combination of sulfentrazone + halosulfuron. This is Dismiss + Sedgehammer respectively. Applied it to my yard a few months after moving in and it annihilated all the sedge.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Sedgehammer+ works on all my sedges except green kyllinga. Dismiss is the only thing that will touch green kyllinga and it works very well.


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## pschattle15 (Apr 3, 2020)

So am I understanding the rates for Celsius correctly for a broadcast spray application. On the label it lists 0.17oz/1000sf as the yearly max. So if my lawn is 4,200 sf, then I would be able to apply a yearly max of 0.714oz to my entire lawn. Is that correct?


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Your math is correct but I recommend using a diet scale to convert the measurements to grams per 1000sf. It's a lot easier to measure that way without having to eyeball the measuring cup and wondering if it is level or not. The annual max is 4.8 grams per 1000sf.


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## pschattle15 (Apr 3, 2020)

Absolutely, I bought a scale last year with some other items to use. I mainly wanted to make sure I'm not misunderstanding my calcs before I applied any chemicals. Thanks!


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## mjh648 (Sep 1, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> Sedgehammer+ works on all my sedges except green kyllinga. Dismiss is the only thing that will touch green kyllinga and it works very well.


What's your preferred rate and timing for dismiss? Will you only put it down in spring to let the grass recover?

I put down 0.18oz/K down for green kyllinga at the end of November last year (65-81F daily temp) and I feel like my grass looked pretty pitiful through the winter as a result.

Have been reluctant to use it again this spring and was going to see if Certainty would kill the kyllinga.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I used it at .25oz/K two seasons ago in the heat of July with very little issues on the bermuda. Check out page 5 of my Hurricane Michael Recovery Journal. This season I went half that rate and had the same effect on the green kyllinga with absolutely no issues noted in the bermuda. The temps are cooler so that probably helped. When I sprayed in July, I sprayed late evening right before sunset when the temps were cooler and would stay cool until the next morning. I don't know if that helped or if I was just lucky. I know at the time I was about to hit it with glyphosate just to get rid of the kyllinga so I was willing to risk a little damage. It wasn't bad at all.


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## mjh648 (Sep 1, 2020)

@Redtwin yeah must have been something else then...Will give it another try. Have some pennant magnum I am going to put down too. Yellow sedge and kyllinga is already popping up fast.


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## mjh648 (Sep 1, 2020)

Mightyquinn said:


> If it was me spraying, I would go with the following:
> 
> Celsius: 2.4g/1000 sq/ft in 1 gallon of water
> Certainty:* .4g*/1000 sq/ft in 1 gallon of water
> ...


You really think 0.8 grams in 1 gallons per K would be a bad idea? The directions are just saying use 2 gallons but when all is said and done it still says to put down 0.8g/K. Is that extra gallon of water going to prevent damaging the turfgrass? I would think it's just there to ensure even distribution.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

While you are probably correct that the added carrier is there for more even distribution the AI(Active Ingredient) will be the same if you use .4 grams in 1 gallon of water as opposed to using .8 grams in 2 gallons of water. I do see your point where .8 grams over 1K of lawn is still the same. I'm not sure if anyone has tried this and I have had good success with the .4 grams/K. I think I have always erred on the side of safety with the dilution. I would do a test area first and see if you have any ill effects from it and report back so we all can learn :thumbsup:


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