# Taps & Dies vs Thread Chasers



## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

So, I have always used Taps & Dies to clean up bolts and holes. After watching the following video, it appears that I should have been using a Thread Chaser. How many of you use thread chasers? I personally think Taps & Dies work fine if you're cautious. What do you guys think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqUxm2gI4k4


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## Monocot Master (Feb 28, 2021)

Thread chaser. I have that kit on the left, and I use it all the time.


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

So, I went ahead and bought this Lang Thread Chaser set from Amazon. The thread size stamps are pretty faint but its highly rated. Some reviewers claims its the same set that's been relabeled for some of the higher end brands???

Better to not be cheap and continue to use my Taps & Dies set which may eventually cause some unwanted damage.

Who doesn't like new tools? I may have to buy a new tool cabinet! OMG...I am turning into @DFW_Zoysia :shock: :lol:


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## UFG8RMIKE (Apr 21, 2019)

I used the Lang set on my triplex renovation. Unfortunately I don't have a tap and dye set to compare it to.

.


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

TulsaFan said:


> So, I went ahead and bought this Lang Thread Chaser set from Amazon. The thread size stamps are pretty faint but its highly rated. Some reviewers claims its the same set that's been relabeled for some of the higher end brands???
> 
> Better to not be cheap and continue to use my Taps & Dies set which may eventually cause some unwanted damage.
> 
> Who doesn't like new tools? I may have to buy a new tool cabinet! OMG...I am turning into @DFW_Zoysia :shock: :lol:


LOL.


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

DFW_Zoysia said:


> TulsaFan said:
> 
> 
> > So, I went ahead and bought this Lang Thread Chaser set from Amazon. The thread size stamps are pretty faint but its highly rated. Some reviewers claims its the same set that's been relabeled for some of the higher end brands???
> ...


Yes, I am truly envious of all your new, shiney toys! :thumbup:

My OPE collection is complete for the next five years. So, I am living vicariously through members of this site when it comes to new, shiney objects.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I look at it like this, a tap and die set can do what a thread chaser set can do but a thread chaser set CAN'T do what a tap and die set can do. I would rather just have one that can do it all and it's not something I use all the time either. Also there is no need in spending big bucks on one either as most of the "brand name" ones are made by someone else anyway.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> I look at it like this, a tap and die set can do what a thread chaser set can do but a thread chaser set CAN'T do what a tap and die set can do. I would rather just have one that can do it all and it's not something I use all the time either. Also there is no need in spending big bucks on one either as most of the "brand name" ones are made by someone else anyway.


Depends on what level of work you are doing. Technically a tap and die kit CAN'T do what a thread chase set does. 95% of us use a tap and die kit to clean-up threads and for most, it's fine. It's not like your name is on record with the FAA as being responsible for that repair.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

MasterMech said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> > I look at it like this, a tap and die set can do what a thread chaser set can do but a thread chaser set CAN'T do what a tap and die set can do. I would rather just have one that can do it all and it's not something I use all the time either. Also there is no need in spending big bucks on one either as most of the "brand name" ones are made by someone else anyway.
> ...


I think for the average homeowner a tap and die set is all you are going to need. I would also add that having a nice Thread Checker set is nice to have also so that you don't have to run to the hardware store to check what threads you are dealing with.

I'm curious as to what a thread chase set can do that a tap and die set can't do?


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

Dear Santa, as a critical part of Build Back Better :roll: your jolly azz is required to be On Deck year 'round now so, ….

… kindly post some links to the forgoing kits at Deep Discounts and Savory Sales in the "Hot Deals" thread, asap! :lol:


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## Monocot Master (Feb 28, 2021)

@Mightyquinn The thread chase can reform damage threads, as apposed to cutting away the damaged threads like a tap and a die. I find that the thread chase serves me very well. If I need a tap or a die then I just buy the size I need. And I already have a handful, so it has been a long time since I needed to buy one.

I have the Lang set as well. I found a really good deal on it several years ago online somewhere.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> > Mightyquinn said:
> ...


I agree - that a tap & die is probably more useful and plenty for the average home-gamer. But when the strength of the threaded hole counts, and the engineering around it depends on a thread being able to maintain a specific clamping load + overload, using a tap to clean up a threaded hole is a no-no. Sometimes lives are riding on the numbers (ever fly commercial?  ) and sometimes you just need to finish the race with the engine intact.

Sorry to be so pedantic, you might have stumbled on a pet peeve of mine. :lol:

@Monocot Master has it right. When you use a tap or die to clean up threads, it removes more material than a thread chase would. Hence altering the strength of the threaded hole/stud. Sometimes it's critical, often times it's not.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

All I'm trying to say is no one here is flying planes to cut their lawns. I also don't buy into the reforming threads thing either as the metal is already weakened so to me it's 6 of one or a half a dozen of another.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

I'm with MQ on this one. Tap and Die set for me and I'm not into repairing damaged threads with the same size bolt. Metal fatigue is real. I'd rather tap the hole one size larger and get a new bolt/stud.

If we're talking just reattaching something not very critical I will occasionally use a tap/die to "clean threads" but anything that would normally require a torque spec would get resized.


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

How many of you use Helicoils & Time-serts or both?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

TulsaFan said:


> How many of you use Helicoils & Time-serts or both?


I was going to bring the Helicoils up but never got around to it. Never actually used one but they seem pretty straight forward.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Used Helicoils, never used a time-sert, don't even know what those are.

Helicoils in my experience are used when you really don't have a ton of extra room to drill out and retap a larger size...something like a broken exhasut manifold stud that you buger up getting out and don't really have the bite room to expand the hold safely is where I've used/seen them used mostly.

That's only a trick I picked up because my neighbor/best-friend was an auto mechanic after he retired from the AF as an airplane mechanic. He's taught me a few of those unique things that don't normally apply to small engines, but you run into on full size vehicles.

90+% of what we muck around with is small engines/atvs/golf carts...etc, but we can and do work on vehicles/tractors/farm equipment...etc when we have to or get a project like my "new" 90 Ranger beater I just picked up.


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## Monocot Master (Feb 28, 2021)

Most of the time I am using the thread chase to clean rust, corrosion, dirt or grease from otherwise good threads. But I have no problem using it to clean boogered-up threads on non critical fasteners. Be it bolts, or holes.

And, unless you have bottoming taps, cleaning up a blind hole with a tapered tap will not work, at least not to the bottom of the hole. Just my two cents. At the end of the day, both taps and chasers have their pluses and minuses.


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

Amoo316 said:


> Used Helicoils, never used a time-sert, don't even know what those are.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

TulsaFan said:


>


I don't get it, he talked up how great time serts were then it stripped out of the soft aluminum before the bolt broke?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I love seeing good off season topics like this take shape in the middle of the growing season.


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpDduCVUy6w


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

TulsaFan said:


> How many of you use Helicoils & Time-serts or both?


Yup. (both)

Thread repair is not an absolute. There are multiple solutions appropriate to various applications. Drill and through-bolt. Fill with weld and remachine, Helicoil, Time-Sert, Sav-a-thread.... All of it's good stuff if used appropriately. If you are looking for one to keep in your toolbox, I prob use Helicoils the most.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Ware said:


> I love seeing good off season topics like this take shape in the middle of the growing season.


 :lol:


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

Ware said:


> I love seeing good off season topics like this take shape in the middle of the growing season.


The funny part about this thread to me is that I thought @Monocot Master was the only one that was going to respond.

So, I was like screw it...I will go ahead and buy a thread chaser kit since nobody disagrees! :lol:


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

@TulsaFan I'm 23 mins into this video and the helicoil has outperformed the thread sert in both tests.

At the end of the day they both out performed the bare aluminum, the healicoil was keeping up with the failure strength of the bolt itself.

It makes sense if you think about how they both work. The helicoil is digging into the material it's placed into so you're going to be limited by the strength of that material. The thread sert is more of a friction fit with a flair. I'm just not seeing the benefit.


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

Amoo316 said:


> @TulsaFan I'm 23 mins into this video and the helicoil has outperformed the thread sert in both tests.
> 
> At the end of the day they both out performed the bare aluminum, the healicoil was keeping up with the failure strength of the bolt itself.
> 
> It makes sense if you think about how they both work. The helicoil is digging into the material it's placed into so you're going to be limited by the strength of that material. The thread sert is more of a friction fit with a flair. I'm just not seeing the benefit.


I was just asking questions and presenting the video information. I may be installing a helicoil in the Baroness and was looking for opinions on the different options.

My mower sat for 10 years before I picked it up. So, the roller adjuster nut was seized to the cutting height bolt when I received it. I replaced it three years ago and added anti-seize. Now, the second one seized this past week after lowering my HOC to scalp. The pic below is from the first bolt that I had to replace and the mower pic belongs to @Keepin It Reel...


(Metric-to-metric Male Hex thread adapter bolt. M10x1.0 x 100mm on the long end and M8x1.25 x 15mm on the short end)



So, after the roller adjuster nut seized to the bolt, I mistakenly tried to unseize it while the bolt was mounted to the frame. (I should have removed it from the frame.) By applying too much force trying to move the adjuster up/down on a seized bolt, I paritally stripped out the course threads in the aluminum frame by having it spin in place. I should have kept a 10mm wrench on the nut to keep it from turning the end of the bolt in the frame.

I went ahead and used my Taps & Dies kit to rethread the hole. However, I am fearful that I may have cut away too many threads? By removing a washer, I might get enough thread to possibly keep it secure.

Parts are coming tomorrow. In the end, if I tighten the coupling nut...it should keep everything secure in place. Otherwise, I install a helicoil.

Thanks for differing opinions on the debate. Hopefully, our members can learn something new from my mistake.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

@TulsaFan Cool, thanks for sharing man. I figured there had to be a reason behind your questions. I'm glad you explained. Makes much more sense now. I can definitely see why resizing would be a real pain here.

I would choose a helicoil for that repair myself, but based on your videos you posted a thread sert might work as well as it's not a heavy load application. I learned something here, as I wasn't even aware of the other options. I actually think I kind of like that key locking insert more then a smaller timer sert in aluminum applications.

I'm assuming the baronness is cast iron? If so I'd go helicoil for sure.


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

Amoo316 said:


> @TulsaFan Cool, thanks for sharing man. I figured there had to be a reason behind your questions. I'm glad you explained. Makes much more sense now. I can definitely see why resizing would be a real pain here.
> 
> I would choose a helicoil for that repair myself, but based on your videos you posted a thread sert might work as well as it's not a heavy load application. I learned something here, as I wasn't even aware of the other options. I actually think I kind of like that key locking insert more then a smaller timer sert in aluminum applications.
> 
> I'm assuming the baronness is cast iron? If so I'd go helicoil for sure.


I believe its aluminum alloy, but @Mightyquinn might know better?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

TulsaFan said:


> Amoo316 said:
> 
> 
> > @TulsaFan Cool, thanks for sharing man. I figured there had to be a reason behind your questions. I'm glad you explained. Makes much more sense now. I can definitely see why resizing would be a real pain here.
> ...


I think it depends on what part of the mower you are talking about.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Mightyquinn said:


> I think it depends on what part of the mower you are talking about.


Where this attaches to the body:



TulsaFan said:


> "So, the roller adjuster nut was seized to the cutting height bolt when I received it. I replaced it three years ago and added anti-seize. Now, the second one seized this past week after lowering my HOC to scalp."


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

New parts arrived today!!!



EDIT: The Baroness will not require a helicoil for the bolt to hold in place. I guess the tap did not eat the remaining threads! :thumbup:


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