# Do I have a systemic pH issue?



## TherapyRequired (May 13, 2020)

Alrighty guys and gals.

This is for my front flower bed that I've been fighting the past 2 years.

I had a local person "design" and plant the flower beds last year cause I was short on time.

Last year I lost 2 out of 3 yews that were planted despite both our efforts.

This year my gardenias are having serious chlorosis issues, my roses are showing the same, my Crete Myrtle bloomed late, and everything else seems to be struggling.

I have been using a liquid fertilizer every 1-2 weeks. At first miracle gro. Now a soluble balanced fert. I've tried chelated iron and nothing seems to be helping. I've tried the soil acidifier granules and it hasn't helped but I've read the sulphur is a slow game.

So I bought a pH probe. It's not a soil sample but it helps direction.

I ordered aluminum sulfate and it will arrive today. Is that my best bet?

The systemic pH imbalance would make sense as to why these mostly slightly acidic preferenced plants are struggling, yeah?







The slightly less acidic reading is where the sulphur has been.

Do I water the aluminum sulfate around the entire bed at this point?


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Here in N TX, we live on a limestone bed, so pH is going to be in the high 7's to low 8's, and there isn't much that can be done about it. The North Texas Municipal Water District water quality reports indicate that the water has a pH of 8.2+ as well, so irrigating is going to increase the pH. My yard (and most I've seen around me) tend to look best in Spring and then decline as the summer heat kicks in and rainfall stops. I have to believe this is due to the irrigation water pH.

As far as your beds go, I have a hydrangea that always produced pink flowers due to the pH and struggles with chlorosis as well. I started using peat moss as a mulch around it vs regular mulch a couple of years ago, and have it now producing blue flowers and there is no sign of chlorosis in the leaves anymore.


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## TherapyRequired (May 13, 2020)

Thanks @Spammage foe the response. I think you're spot on with that.

A couple of my plants are in need of rehab so I'm hoping the AS will at least allow them to start using more of the nutrients in the soil.

I have a bale of pear moss that I haven't used yet. I work some of that into the soil and use it as dressing as well.

Thanks for the response.


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## TherapyRequired (May 13, 2020)

Edit...I'm fresh out of pear moss. I'll use the bale of PEAT moss I have...

:roll:


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Go foliar on your iron (bypass the soil).


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## TherapyRequired (May 13, 2020)

g-man said:


> Go foliar on your iron (bypass the soil).


I did the chelated iron and sprayed the gardenias. Didn't seem to affect them at all.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

How much? How often? Surfactant?


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## TherapyRequired (May 13, 2020)

I'd have to look on the bottle when I get home. No surfactant. I didn't know since it was hot.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I spray my landscape with a fairly weak solution of FEature (1oz FEature) in a gallon pump sprayer with a bit of surfactant. FEature is 10% iron and 6% nitrogen. I get a response in my 8pH. I spray at dawn and water the leaves/plans in the morning if it is going to be hot. I try to do it weekly (when I remember).


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You can also try (i havent done this), a soil application of citric acid around the plants.


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## TherapyRequired (May 13, 2020)

g-man said:


> You can also try (i havent done this), a soil application of citric acid around the plants.


Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into both.

Think I can still do the ammonium sulfate?



I kept saying aluminum earlier...yikes.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

AMS as a nitrogen is ok, but dont expect a big difference.


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## TherapyRequired (May 13, 2020)

g-man said:


> AMS as a nitrogen is ok, but dont expect a big difference.


  

I did mean aluminum sulfate to get some pH change. This lawn care can have a hell of a learning curve!


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## JeffR84 (Apr 25, 2020)

g-man said:


> You can also try (i havent done this), a soil application of citric acid around the plants.


I haven't tried citric acid in landscape beds yet, but I've recently done 2 applications of citric acid in my lawn based on @Greendoc recommendation. It helped my lawn become greener than its ever been. It temporarily brings down the PH to allow for better nutrient uptake. It's worth a try to spray around plants.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Acidifying with Sulfur is a biological process. Bacteria processes the Sulfur into sulfuric acid which acidifies the soil. Certain environmental conditions (Temp and moisture) must be present that are conducive to this bacterial action. The end result is H+ and sulfate. The sulfate is a plant nutrient. Aluminum sulfate acidifies through a chemical reaction that is much less dependent on temperature and needs no biologic action. Much faster than Sulfur. The end result is H+ and aluminum. Aluminum is toxic to most plants. Do some research to make sure the plants you have planted (or will plant in the future) are tolerant to aluminum before using aluminum sulfate and research garden sites for techniques for mixing aluminum sulfate into the soil (and amounts) before planting.


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## TherapyRequired (May 13, 2020)

@Spammage Do you spread peat moss on your lawn yearly to help with the ph as well?


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

You really should do a robust soil test to get the overall.picture of whats going on in those beds. pH is part of the story but not all.

Yes, your natural soil is probably calcitic, and not much to be done. However, if you had beds done, did they put in soil or use your existing soil?

Of course it helps to see what youre trying to grow. I.e. hydrangeas are different than grass.

Hydrangeas are going to struggle in alkaline soil.

Peat moss, compost, elemental sulfur cultivated into the soil may help remedy the immediate soil pH around the pH sensitive plants.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

TherapyRequired said:


> @Spammage Do you spread peat moss on your lawn yearly to help with the ph as well?


I do, and to clarify based on HLG's post, I am using the crappy alkaline calcareous clay. I add a couple of inches of peat around the base of the plant every Spring to help with acidification of the soil area immediately around the hydrangea. It gives me blue flowers vs pink flowers (which also look nice) and prevents chlorosis.

Edit - if you are asking specifically about the grass, no, I don't apply peat to the lawn. The grass does pretty well even at our pH. Zoysia will get a little chlorotic towards the end of summer when we haven't had measurable rain in 60-90 days, but foliar iron apps can help with that if preferred.


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## TherapyRequired (May 13, 2020)

@HoosierLawnGnome Thanks for the response. You're right. I should do a soil test. I likely will this winter.

The only thing struggling/dying are 2/3 gardenias. The lantanas immediately beside them are doing well. (I know they aren't the same creature) I did the dissolved aluminum sulfate around them Saturday night and applied a acid friendly fert to it this am. I'll put peat moss as mulch in this bed.

Yes @Spammage I was asking about your lawn. Just because of what you've done in the flower bed.


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## cpd5215 (Oct 11, 2019)

JeffR84 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > You can also try (i havent done this), a soil application of citric acid around the plants.
> ...


I just did my first soil test on a new construction home lawn. I have high lawn pH of 7.8. What was your pH level and what "symptoms" in your grass did you see before you applied the CA? How did you apply the CA, what amounts and what kind? 
How long did it take to see some change in the color of the turf?
Thanks!


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## JeffR84 (Apr 25, 2020)

My pH was an 8.0. I've been applying 1 lb per 1000 once a month. I bought the cheapest 10lb bag of Citric acid on amazon and dissolve it in 1 gallon of water per 1000. I felt like I noticed a green up within a couple of days because of the temporary lowering of pH makes most nutrients much more useable.

This should also help with elemental sulfur work because it will flush the carbonates and allow the eventual sulfuric acid penetrate deeper before its neutralized.

This is all info from @Greendoc so if you need additional info he'd be the one to reach out to.


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