# Help! Summer heat destroys my lawn.



## stmarshall3017 (Aug 13, 2019)

Hello,

The last two summers, i've had a difficult time keeping my lawn healthy. My front yard has no shade and temps are regularly in the 80s and 90s all summer. The last two years the lawn died in patches and crabgrass took over. I'm trying to avoid that this year. I've cared for the lawn, fertilized (Scotts products), seeded/overseeded with Scotts sun & shade mix during the fall over the last two years and the lawn is in much better shape in general. Weeds are minimal and under control. I applied a Scotts pre-emergent in the early spring and Weed & Feed around Memorial Day as well. I mow at the highest blade height. I also began watering my lawn daily, for about 15 min each morning in anticipation of the summer heat and drought. I'm still watering each morning, but I can already notice the grass starting to become brown in the last week from the heat.

What more can I do?! I can live with it being a little brown-ish during the summer but what I really want to avoid is the grass dying completely and crabgrass moving in, like in years past. I was planning on applying Scotts Summerguard w/ Insect Control at the end of June. Yea? No?

Help! Thanks


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

What grasses do you have and or are planting? If you get no shade why are you planting shade mixes?

My first guess is that the fine fescues are thriving in your Fall weather when its cool and your seeding, and get toasted in summer because they are not meant to be in direct sun.

Do you have photos?

You shouldnt be watering every day either, you should be watering 1-2 times a week for longer durations to get your 1" of water. Maybe 1.5-2" if your in a long heat wave. 
Honestly unless your at 95+ for several days would you maybe throw in an additional watering.

Daily watering =Grass with shallow roots because it doesnt need to seek water when you always have the top inch wet.
Then when it gets hot and that top inch dries out every day, your grass goes dormant and or dies.

This is why you should water deeply and infrequently, to get your roots grasping deeper for water. Your soil 4-6" down will take many days or weeks of hot temperatures to fully dry out depending on what soil type you have.


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

To stay green in the summer, you have to water. Everything you are doing will only reduce the need for water, not eliminate it. Watering 3x a week is fine. Above all, I think watering is the most expensive part about lawn care. Because you have thousands of plants which all need water equally. Also, try to mow about two hours before sunset, and time it to the day before you water in morning or before it rains for better recovery.


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## stmarshall3017 (Aug 13, 2019)

Thanks for the replies. I've been seeding with Scott's Sun & Shade mix. It's primarily TTF & KBG. What seed should I be using? Would be good info for when I over seed this fall.

Thanks for the watering tip. I'll move to 2-3 times per week. I guess I'll have to figure out a way to measure the water accumulation. Put out a bowl or something?


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## stmarshall3017 (Aug 13, 2019)

Bump. Anyone else? Should I apply anything to the lawn now, or instead of SummerGuard at the end of June?


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

First thing's first, and this is something you need to keep in your mind as long as you have grass to care for. Heat does not kill fescue, nor bluegrass. Not 80 degrees, not 90 degrees, not 100 degrees, not even 110 degress. I've gone through temperatures that high with absolutely no issues. It's important you understand that, so instead of chucking it to to heat boogeyman, you can direct your attention to the real issues.

There are two things that kill grass in the summer. Lack of water, and fungus. You need to address both if you want to maintain a high quality lawn. Watering too often(like daily) greatly exacerbates fungus issues. You should water ideally one inch per week, or half an inch twice a week, at most. Reducing water frequency will help reduce fungus, but not eliminate it. To address the fungus problem, you should apply fungicide at preventative rate through summer, as long as temps stay above 80. Fungus is best prevented, treating it once set in is much harder.

Those are the general principles. In order to be able to tell exactly what is going on with your lawn, some pictures would be needed.


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## saidtheblueknight (Jul 10, 2019)

stmarshall3017 said:


> Bump. Anyone else? Should I apply anything to the lawn now, or instead of SummerGuard at the end of June?


What exactly are you using and when in terms of fert.

It sounds like you're also pushing the lawn hard with synthetics during the summer, which in combination with a weak shallow root system (due to your daily watering) will kill any lawn.

Honestly, there's not much you can or should to in terms of a major fix right now...especially given the weak state of your lawn. I would continue to water 1-2x a week, mow often at the right height and just get through the summer. In the fall, do a major renovation with the right products (fert, humic, sun tolerant seed) and continue with proper practices eg. infrequent watering and frequent mowing with a sharp blade. Also don't fertilize in the early spring which I presume you are doing.

If you do that, by this time next year your lawn will be in much better shape to survive the summer.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

I would try not fertilizing outside of the fall and verify you don't have grubs under your dead patches.


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## stmarshall3017 (Aug 13, 2019)

j4c11 said:


> First thing's first, and this is something you need to keep in your mind as long as you have grass to care for. Heat does not kill fescue, nor bluegrass. Not 80 degrees, not 90 degrees, not 100 degrees, not even 110 degress. I've gone through temperatures that high with absolutely no issues. It's important you understand that, so instead of chucking it to to heat boogeyman, you can direct your attention to the real issues.
> 
> There are two things that kill grass in the summer. Lack of water, and fungus. You need to address both if you want to maintain a high quality lawn. Watering too often(like daily) greatly exacerbates fungus issues. You should water ideally one inch per week, or half an inch twice a week, at most. Reducing water frequency will help reduce fungus, but not eliminate it. To address the fungus problem, you should apply fungicide at preventative rate through summer, as long as temps stay above 80. Fungus is best prevented, treating it once set in is much harder.
> 
> Those are the general principles. In order to be able to tell exactly what is going on with your lawn, some pictures would be needed.


Thanks for the insight. I'm learning, I'm listening. Sounds like Im definitely not watering correctly, so I will adjust my watering habits immediately to twice a week for longer periods of time.

If heat is not a killer, is direct sun a killer? I have the same grass in my backyard and it seems to be healthier in the shaded areas. I apply the same ferts and seed in the back.

How do I know fungus is an issue?


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## stmarshall3017 (Aug 13, 2019)

saidtheblueknight said:


> stmarshall3017 said:
> 
> 
> > Bump. Anyone else? Should I apply anything to the lawn now, or instead of SummerGuard at the end of June?
> ...


I used Scotts WeedX w/ Halts preem at late March. I did one application of Scott Lawn Food as a nitrogen boost in April. And I did Scotts Weed & Feed around Memorial Day. Lawn looked great through the spring. See the attached pictures taken today. Lawn was very green a week or two ago, and since it's been in the mid to high 80s the last week I've noticed the browning. It's not dead-dead yet but I'm concerned it's early for it to be browning already.


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## stmarshall3017 (Aug 13, 2019)




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## stmarshall3017 (Aug 13, 2019)

badtlc said:


> I would try not fertilizing outside of the fall and verify you don't have grubs under your dead patches.


Most of what I'm currently doing was what I've been advised to do on other threads on this forum. Not the watering part, that's my mistake. But the preem, nitrogen application, weed&feed are things that were recommended or OK'ed in other threads. So I'm not going totally blind; I'm trying to learn what I can and get this right.


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

A lot of the grass seem very close to being if not already dormant. Remember to water.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

stmarshall3017 said:


> Most of what I'm currently doing was what I've been advised to do on other threads on this forum. Not the watering part, that's my mistake. But the preem, nitrogen application, weed&feed are things that were recommended or OK'ed in other threads. So I'm not going totally blind; I'm trying to learn what I can and get this right.


You have to be careful as the advice is not absolute. Requirements will vary by region. Like I mentioned for my area.

Just a quick perusal of Mich. State ag school recommendations appears to indicate they recommend fertilizing when August/sept comes around. Grass clippings should be enough nitrogen during the peak heat months.

Sorry, just noticed you are in NY not michigan. NOt sure why I thought that. I'll check NY.

EDIT: Here are cornell's guidelines for NY lawns: http://turf.cals.cornell.edu/lawn/lawn-care-the-easiest-steps-to-an-attractive-environmental-asset/


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Your lawn looks like a fine fescue type. It checks out in the summer sun. It won't die, but it will go brown. You can water, but in my experience it is hard to keep it green. Scott seed blends have a lot of this type of grass. It germinates fast and looks pretty in spring and fall. I killed my lawn to get rid of it.

Using fertilizers in the summer (eg. Summerguard from Scott's), tend to make the problem worst. The extra nitrogen means the lawn needs extra water to grow and survive. Most of us avoid too much or any nitrogen in the summer heat. We tend to provide some iron for color.

What can you do now? Measure how much water you are providing. Setup empty tuna cans or other straight wall container. Try to figure out how long to run your irrigation to get 0.5-0.75in of water in the cups evenly on the yard. The results might surprise you. As we move more into the summer the lawn could need 1 to 1.5in of water a week.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

I'm in the same boat as the OP in terms of having fine fescue (and in my case generally an old lawn) that checks out in summer no matter how carefully I attend to it. Looks very similar to the OP's pictures right now. I've spent countless hours probing, maintaining, and researching issues surrounding my lawn. I've eliminated every possible underlying cause pretty well except for the grass itself just being too sensitive.

I took a small area and renoed it last spring with a modern and fine-fescue-free seed. It's had the same maintenance as the rest of my yard and it's doing far better so I feel like there's some validity to @g-man's explaination especially since I've heard others have this problem.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Here in the Northeast, it's not Summer just yet. That usually comes right around the official start of Summer, so it could come any day now.

It sounds like you're potentially battling a few items. It sounds like you have new grass that was just seeded fairly recently. You also may have poor soil lacking nutrients. It could be compacted. It could have lots of buried rocks just under the surface. These types of things make a big difference.

Now is the time to decrease watering frequency and increase how much water you put down. New grass won't be able to go as long as a mature lawn between waterings or rain events, but you can surely still stretch it out longer than 24 hours, and then slowly increase the interval over the next few weeks.

I would measure how much water you're putting down. Initially, aim for a half inch. But check it every so often and see if it's actually soaking in, or if it's running off into the driveway/road. If it's running off, no amount of deep and infrequent watering will save you; it has to penetrate in order to work. That's the first thing to address.

If it runs off, you need to figure out why. Is there buried debris or rocks? Is the soil compacted? Hydrophobic? Etc. If buried debris, no amount of soil amendments will save you. The debris need to be dug out. But maybe that's not even your issue.

As far as fine fescue, it will only do so well in full sun. Thankfully, it goes partly dormant pretty readily, and stays partly dormant for a long time without dying. Mixes with other grasses do a lot better in full sun. If it's just the grass type that's the issue, I'd keep overseeding with things like TTTF and KBG, each year in late Summer until you have a better sun tolerant mixture. One Summer a few years ago, I had a lot of fine fescue in an area actually die. But not until July and August. I raked up the dead stuff, and overseeded with TTTF and Bluegrass later that year, to great effect.

For now, it sounds like you need to up the water. Once you measure it, it'll give a better idea of how long to water. And the brown may even partly recover. Also, you'll have to move the sprinkers around and water multiple times from different positions. Just one position won't cut it for a large area with a traditional rotary sprinkler. They're not designed to work that way.


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

I don't think plants need extra water with nitrogen, but plants need water to utilize nitrogen. As long as it is not sitting on the leaves, and isn't over-applied, and properly gaped between applications, I think nitrogen can be applied anytime in the growing season. But the problem is, most do not water it in the summer hot weather and it stays on the leaves, adding to the stress of the hot sun, and burns the plant. That's why I advocate for applying fertilizer in the evening and right before a rain.

Scotts Summerguard has 0.5lbs of Nitrogen, and they say one can apply it again two weeks later, amounting to 1lb of N. If this seriously caused negative effects on the lawn, I think people would be suing Scotts.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

stmarshall3017 said:


>


As i originally posted, your lawn appears to be heavily Fine fescue which is a shade grass and as @g-man also said has no chance in direct sunlight no matter what water or fertilizzer/herbicide schedule you throw at it. This isnt surprising as Fine fescues thrive in wet cool weather like when your planting in Fall, shorter days, wetter weather, all things other cool season grasses arent as much of a fan of. This fall and in the future look at getting pure sun mixes with just TTTF, there is no point in overseeding KBG seed into your existing grass most of it wont survive.

Over time the Fine fescues will die off as the TTTF gets more prominent and the TTTF will fill in and should look good.


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## stmarshall3017 (Aug 13, 2019)

Thanks for all of the replies everyone. This has been a big help. I will:
Decrease watering frequency to 2-3 times week.
Increase watering amount to at least .5in per application
Plan to overseed with TTTF at the end of summer/beginning of fall
Not fertilize over the summer?? Saw some disagreement on this in the responses.

Anything else that I can do to prevent the grass dying and crabgrass taking over like last year?


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

stmarshall3017 said:


> Anything else that I can do to prevent the grass dying and crabgrass taking over like last year?


How high are you mowing and how often? I would stop mowing for the remainder of the summer.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

greencare said:


> I don't think plants need extra water with nitrogen, but plants need water to utilize nitrogen.


This is incorrect. When a grass gets nitrogen it will use it to grow. That grow needs more water than a lawn without the extra nitrogen.

If you go to most Univ publications, they advise against summer fertilizer (ok in irrigated high maintenance lawns). They don't have a financial incentive to sell a fertilizer product.

https://turf.unl.edu/NebGuides/HomeLawnFertilization2012f.pdf


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

g-man said:


> greencare said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think plants need extra water with nitrogen, but plants need water to utilize nitrogen.
> ...


Yes, when grass gets nitrogen, it will utilize it to grow. That is what I said, but only if water needs are met. Otherwise, lawns under fertilization programs would require more water than lawns under no fertilization. My experience has been the direct opposite.

As for university publications, let me see their lawns first before I listen to them. Scotts has more to lose monetarily than university publications' safe approach. And I sincerely disagree with their notion to reduce fertilization in spring. I think this has to be the worst advise I have read to date. Not the only bad advise in the publication, but has to be the worst. How in the world does spring fertilization reduce root growth? Doesn't make any sense. Roots search for water, not nutrients. That's why you have shallow roots with frequent waterings. And having a thick turf in spring helps grass prepare to retain more moisture for the summer months by providing a better coverage of soil. Again, I have no idea where their advise comes from. I need to see their lawns first.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Over time the Fine fescues will die off as the TTTF gets more prominent and the TTTF will fill in and should look good.


This hasn't been my experience. It's possible my overseeding technique is flawed but my fine fescue keeps dominating whatever I overseed with. I've been overseeding for years with no improvement in summer performance. On the other hand the small area where I did a full reno is looking great so far this summer.

My FF is incredibly hardy and aggressive, just not in summer.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

Watering 15 min/day promotes shallow roots, which makes the lawn susceptible to drought.

You'd be better off using the exact same amount of water, but running 45-60 min every 3-4 days.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@greencare You can go and see their lawns and control plots. Most universities have a Turf Field Day (not this year with Covid). Graduate students spend years doing research with multiple test plots, grow chambers and labs to write their thesis. Professors do research on different products and report their observations for peer review. These feed their publications.

Spring fertilization is something they have studied in detail. Roots search for water and nutrients. The function of the roots is more than just getting water, they also store carbohydrates. The carbs are used by the plant to grow, but the whole plant. When you feed it nitrogen, it will have to tap into the carbs to get leaf growth (plant needs more than nitrogen). When you push the leaf growth in the spring, you will use/deplete the carbs that it uses in the summer to survive the summer heat.


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

g-man said:


> @greencare You can go and see their lawns and control plots. Most universities have a Turf Field Day (not this year with Covid). Graduate students spend years doing research with multiple test plots, grow chambers and labs to write their thesis. Professors do research on different products and report their observations for peer review. These feed their publications.
> 
> Spring fertilization is something they have studied in detail. Roots search for water and nutrients. The function of the roots is more than just getting water, they also store carbohydrates. The carbs are used by the plant to grow, but the whole plant. When you feed it nitrogen, it will have to tap into the carbs to get leaf growth (plant needs more than nitrogen). When you push the leaf growth in the spring, you will use/deplete the carbs that it uses in the summer to survive the summer heat.


Hmm, interesting. I didn't know abut the whole carb situation. I am curious to learn how they differentiated between roots going for water or nutrients, or both.


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

badtlc said:


> I would try not fertilizing outside of the fall and verify you don't have grubs under your dead patches.


how do you meet the yearly nitrogen requirements for something like KBG which is around 4lbs of N/1000 sq ft if you are only fertilizing in the fall?


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

john5246 said:


> badtlc said:
> 
> 
> > I would try not fertilizing outside of the fall and verify you don't have grubs under your dead patches.
> ...


Fall N blitz. Read more about it in the cool season guide


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

john5246 said:


> badtlc said:
> 
> 
> > I would try not fertilizing outside of the fall and verify you don't have grubs under your dead patches.
> ...


From mid Aug to end Oct 0.25N is 3lbs of N. 1/4 weekly or 1/2 every other week, depends of what is doable for you and the type of N you use.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

stmarshall3017 said:


> Thanks for all of the replies everyone. This has been a big help. I will:
> Decrease watering frequency to 2-3 times week.
> Increase watering amount to at least .5in per application


Just one note. This time of year in the Northeast, 1 inch a week including rain, should be more or less sufficient. If you water 3x per week for 1.5 inch total, you will likely over water some areas right now, which can cause other issues on top of the ones you're currently facing.

In July, you may well need to water 3x per week at 0.5 inch each time in sunny areas, if it's around 90 every day.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

greencare said:


> Yes, when grass gets nitrogen, it will utilize it to grow. That is what I said, but only if water needs are met. Otherwise, lawns under fertilization programs would require more water than lawns under no fertilization. My experience has been the direct opposite.
> 
> As for university publications, let me see their lawns first before I listen to them. Scotts has more to lose monetarily than university publications' safe approach. And I sincerely disagree with their notion to reduce fertilization in spring. I think this has to be the worst advise I have read to date. Not the only bad advise in the publication, but has to be the worst. How in the world does spring fertilization reduce root growth? Doesn't make any sense. Roots search for water, not nutrients. That's why you have shallow roots with frequent waterings. And having a thick turf in spring helps grass prepare to retain more moisture for the summer months by providing a better coverage of soil. Again, I have no idea where their advise comes from. I need to see their lawns first.


You specifically mentioned Scotts Summerguard as an example, though, which has a lot of coated controlled release N, so if the turf doesn't get enough water, the N simply won't release en masse. But if someone uses a 100% fast release product under the same heat and doesn't get sufficient water, the salt content of the urea and ammonium sulfate or other N source might burn the grass. I've even seen pros do this with fert and/or weed killer in the late Spring and Summer. Just because they're all pros doesn't mean all of them are turf experts. Some do lawn care as a secondary part of their business model and don't totally know the nuances, or may be new and less experienced than veteran applicators.

Yes, I get that you were talking about supplying a low amount of N to turf that truly needs it (or at least can make use of it and is watered in and cared for properly). Lots of irrigated high input lawns are fertilized with up to 0.5 lb N in the middle of July in many regions, and do well. Is it best practice? Probably not. Could you do it with TTTF in South Carolina in a normal year, or to get even more extreme, KBG in Georgia? Nope.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

davegravy said:


> FuzzeWuzze said:
> 
> 
> > Over time the Fine fescues will die off as the TTTF gets more prominent and the TTTF will fill in and should look good.
> ...


I've had it work. But again, in almost full sun.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Green said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> > FuzzeWuzze said:
> ...


Is your FF grown from seed you sewed, or was on your lot when you bought the property and might have been around for 20 or 50 years like mine?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

davegravy said:


> Is your FF grown from seed you sewed, or was on your lot when you bought the property and might have been around for 20 or 50 years like mine?


It was there about 30 years, and established. But I've been using Tenacity for the last 7+ years.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

One other comment. Fine Fescue just hates lots of fertilizer, especially in the warmer months. It's not like the other grass types that can do well with like 4 lbs of N a year.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Green said:


> One other comment. Fine Fescue just hates lots of fertilizer, especially in the warmer months. It's not like the other grass types that can do well with like 4 lbs of N a year.


Might explain why my neighbour's lawns look so much better in summer despite them not doing much maintenance. Don't think they ever fertilize.


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

@davegravy @FuzzeWuzze @Green



Green said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> > FuzzeWuzze said:
> ...


Hated to resurrect and hijack this, but it's so relevant to me.

I have a northern mix lawn and find out of the 7-8 month growing season, it looks really good for about 3 of those months. April and then September and October. Something in the mix is weak - it succumbs to fungus and gets yellowy in early in May, dries out before everything else does in June, thins, and then recovers in September to green up and grow like gangbusters for the fall. I've renovated some areas with TTTF which look phenomenal all throughout the season and others with TTTF and KBG which do pretty good as well. I've wanted to badly to get some TTTF growing in the northern mix, as I think it would really fill in the gaps left by the weak grass in the mix, but it seems like the couple of times I've tried I've wasted seed. Not sure I did it well - may not have cut short enough first, may not have used enough seed, aeration may not have been sufficient, etc. @davegravy - like you noted, it's almost as if the weak grass in the mix (if fine fescue) thrives at the ideal time to overseed and never lets the overseed establish.

Any tips or hints on how I might be able to get some success at improving the stand, rates for overseed, techniques, would be appreciated.

@Green - would like to hear more about your Tenacity technique. Are you broadcast spreading to keep the fine fescue down?

Pic to show appearance through much of the summer. Beyond the line of four trees is TTTF/KBG mix which looks remarkably different.

Thanks!


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

mooch91 said:


> ... I have a northern mix lawn and find out of the 7-8 month growing season, it looks really good for about 3 of those months. April and then September and October. Something in the mix is weak - it succumbs to fungus and gets yellowy in early in May, dries out before everything else does in June, thins, and then recovers in September to green up and grow like gangbusters for the fall. I've renovated some areas with TTTF which look phenomenal all throughout the season and others with TTTF and KBG which do pretty good as well. I've wanted to badly to get some TTTF growing in the northern mix, as I think it would really fill in the gaps left by the weak grass in the mix, but it seems like the couple of times I've tried I've wasted seed. Not sure I did it well - may not have cut short enough first, may not have used enough seed, aeration may not have been sufficient, etc. @davegravy - like you noted, it's almost as if the weak grass in the mix (if fine fescue) thrives at the ideal time to overseed and never lets the overseed establish.
> 
> Any tips or hints on how I might be able to get some success at improving the stand, rates for overseed, techniques, would be appreciated.


At the risk of saying the obvious, you already know the answer...

The only way to replace a northern mix lawn with a different type is to kill off the grass you don't want in the lawn, and seed the grass you do want. You said it yourself, "I've renovated some areas... which look phenomenal..."

If you currently have a northern mix lawn and want something different, the only way is to kill it off and start over.

Which leads me to a classic Warren Miller quote, which seems ironic for a lawn forum... "If you don't do it this year, you will be one year older when you do."

If you aren't willing to kill it off and start over, then just settle for the fact that a northern mix will look awesome in April, May, September, and October and enjoy your extra free time in July and August when you won't have to mow as often because growth has slowed way down.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@mooch91, Tenacity is something I use pretty often, blanket sprayed. Long and often enough over a few years, and your FF will reduce. I've done higher rates intentionally, too, like 5-6oz oer acre on small areas for that reason specifically. In shade though, embrace the FF.

Overseeding can be tough. The worse condition your current lawn is in, and the more room for new seed in it, the better it works. Scalp, dethatch, dry out, aerate, PGR, and Tenacity prior to seeding works well.

TTTF seems like a weak competitor until it gets established. It can take several overseeds to get it incorporated sometimes. Dead and dormant grass is better...makes it easier to overseed.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

ken-n-nancy said:


> Which leads me to a classic Warren Miller quote, which seems ironic for a lawn forum... "If you don't do it this year, you will be one year older when you do."


Life is short. Most people here are I assume like me and getting started with this hobby in their mid to late 30s, or later. Probably we'll have moved on to other interests by our 70s. I'd guess on average we get only 30 or so growing seasons to enjoy, so be sure to make each one count!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@mooch91 it comes a point that we all realize that we want to take the lawn to the next level. I think you are there. Now is avoiding the fear of the reno. Yes it is a lot of work, but careful planning and you will like the results.


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

g-man said:


> @mooch91 it comes a point that we all realize that we want to take the lawn to the next level. I think you are there. Now is avoiding the fear of the reno. Yes it is a lot of work, but careful planning and you will like the results.


Thanks, it's the size of the job that scares me. Probably looking at an acre that would need killed off. I've done small sections to reclaim some pasture property, or this year to eradicate some significant poa triv. They are always slow, no matter what time of year I do them. I'm still working to get this year's triv reno to fill in, almost 4 months after I started now. You all seem to get germination and full, thick lawns quicker than I can, regardless of how much I water, fertilize, etc.

I was hoping there was some way to make an improvement without going through with a total kill.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> stmarshall3017 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


I totally agree. Scotts sun and shade has a nice amount of fine fescue. I would take this route if not interested in a full renovation in the front.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

mooch91 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > @mooch91 it comes a point that we all realize that we want to take the lawn to the next level. I think you are there. Now is avoiding the fear of the reno. Yes it is a lot of work, but careful planning and you will like the results.
> ...


I wouldnt try to renovate an acre, let alone even try overseeding a full acre.

Pick maybe 10k-20sqft to focus on, renovate those and learn what does and doesnt work, and take that knowledge into the other area's in future years.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> I wouldn't try to renovate an acre, let alone even try overseeding a full acre.
> 
> Pick maybe 10k-20sqft to focus on, renovate those and learn what does and doesn't work, and take that knowledge into the other areas in future years.


^^^ This. ^^^

A lot of wisdom in the above.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

davegravy said:


> ken-n-nancy said:
> 
> 
> > Which leads me to a classic Warren Miller quote, which seems ironic for a lawn forum... "If you don't do it this year, you will be one year older when you do."
> ...


Mid 30's.... I am talking to teenagers here... :roll:  and a decade late


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## liebo11 (May 27, 2020)

So in NY, how often should we be watering and for how long? I have about 1/3 of an acre. I"m watering everyday right now but I'm thinking that can be contributing to my brown spots/fungus?


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

liebo11 said:


> So in NY, how often should we be watering and for how long? I have about 1/3 of an acre. I"m watering everyday right now but I'm thinking that can be contributing to my brown spots/fungus?


Daily isn't really recommended except if your grass is really young with short roots. Like if you seeded in the spring. Yes it could be contributing to fungus.

Recommended is weekly to every 3 days depending on a few factors such as soil type. Sandy soil is more frequent, clay would be less frequent since it has more water holding ability.

You want to water deeply enough that the bottom of the rootzone is getting wet and as infrequently as you can without your soil going totally dry. Yes it may be necessary to adjust your schedule with rain, temperature, and humidity conditions.

I find it helpful to use a soil probe to monitor moisture depth and tune my waterings


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