# Lawncare advice: TLF vs others



## simplesimon (Aug 25, 2021)

Reading the responses in the thread about the neighbor over-fertilizing made me think...I'm still a newbie and am trying to absorb as much as I can.

After moving into our new house I used a small local lawncare company. They made my lawn look a little better because they did *something* rather than previous homeowners who did nothing, but the lawn didn't look great even after two years. They would aerate and overseed in spring with kbg and only now do I know why that didn't work.

I have been calling around looking for 50lb bags of urea and half the responses are "we only carry small bags" and the other half are "what's that?"

I was at Home Depot the other day and saw lots of weed and feed products and hose-end attachment products, which I know people here don't like.

What else are people on this forum doing that is considered very different from "conventional wisdom"?


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## Tsmith (Aug 11, 2017)

My recommendation to anyone getting into lawn care as a hobby is to start out with the basics like pre emergents, fertilizing, and proper lawn maintenance to make sure it's for them. Most people realize fairly quickly if it's for them or not and better to know it is before diving into the deep end and wasting money.

Organic fertilizers and grains to improve the soil, Urea for the fall blitz and using Tenacity for pre and post emergent are probably what separate the average homeowner taking care of their lawn and the people who make lawn care a hobby

Some may recommend getting a soil test but I never recommend that to a newbie as I think that's more for people who already know lawn work is for them and have already been maintaining their lawn and are now looking to take the next step.

Contrary to popular belief aerating is not a required part of lawn maintenance and any benefit gained from it is temporary at best so many think it's better to work on improving the soil with organics and proper lawn maintenance than aerating every year.

Urea isn't easy to find but suppliers like SiteOne sell it if you have any of those locations near you. I wouldn't recommend Urea for a newbie though as it's very easy to over fertilize and damage your lawn so it's better to get familiar with fertilizing in general before taking the step to straight Urea.

Hope that helps!


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

simplesimon said:


> I was at Home Depot the other day and saw lots of weed and feed products and hose-end attachment products, which I know people here don't like.


These products aren't a bad options. But there are better options with better value at places like domyown.com.

If someone has a small yard, there is nothing wrong with using big box store products. Now if you need things like a specialty post emergent or fungicide, you would need to go elsewhere.

I think the advice found on TLF should be considered "conventional wisdom." In my opinion, there really are only 3 pillars to lawn care - water, feed and mow. The members with elite lawns work in pre-emergent and fungicide programs but once you understand the basics; lawn care is, well, basic.

The interesting part for me is there are different ways to achieve similar results. There isn't a single "right" way to lawn care.



Tsmith said:


> Some may recommend getting a soil test but I never recommend that to a newbie as I think that's more for people who already know lawn work is for them and have already been maintaining their lawn and are now looking to take the next step.


I couldn't agree more. I joined TLF in 2018 and got serious about lawn care. In the 3 years at my old house, I never did a single soil test. You can check out my journals to see how that worked out.



Tsmith said:


> Contrary to popular belief aerating is not a required part of lawn maintenance and any benefit gained from it is temporary at best so many think it's better to work on improving the soil with organics and proper lawn maintenance than aerating every year.
> Hope that helps!


I agree with aerating in extreme conditions where soil is compacted but not as a general practice. In most cases where people aerate, it isn't necessary. Most home lawns don't see enough traffic to become compacted. A lot of the time, proper irrigation can alleviate soil compaction.

These are some great points @Tsmith


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## dleonard11122 (Jun 24, 2020)

The best advice I can give is to find a specialty turf store (or at least a landscape supplier like SiteOne) and go there to do your business. If you have golf courses where you live, odds are that a search for "turf supplier" will give you some local options. Worst case, you can go online to any of the Youtubers (Ryan Knorr, Pete w/ GCI Turf, LCN), DoMyOwn.com, seedsuperstore, etc..

By getting out of the big box stores you'll find better product that is often times cheaper, or at least a much better value.


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

For the record, Urea is shunned by the industry because

a.) you can seriously destroy your lawn if you over apply.

b.) its a cheap alternative to reduce the need to buy other products.

When you go to the big box store. They shoe you into a category and jack the price up.

We do things different here because we basically buy in bulk and apply seperatly.

Next time youre there see how long it takes you to figure what the active ingridents of a grub killer is or whether or not they use muriate of potash or sulfate of potash for their K requirement.

Since lawn compaines spray 99% of the time, I bet they always use urea as their N source.

Most people wont buy a backpack sprayer and spray themselves. Thats really whats required for the jump from Big Box to the most people on this forum.

Go to domyown.com and piece together what you would need then compare the sq ft and number of applications per that sq ft to the big box stuff.

Hose end sprayers are generally not used because their diffiuclt to time product per area of lawn. Require you to drag a hose and generally wet and dirty. More risk if gettinf product on yourself. Back pack sprayers are far more accurate assuming youve calibrated. 
Hose ends do have their place though with products that tend to clog a back pack sprayer or ones that require water with the app like soil softeners.

LCN has some good videos on this.


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

dleonard11122 said:


> The best advice I can give is to find a specialty turf store (or at least a landscape supplier like SiteOne) and go there to do your business. If you have golf courses where you live, odds are that a search for "turf supplier" will give you some local options. Worst case, you can go online to any of the Youtubers (Ryan Knorr, Pete w/ GCI Turf, LCN), DoMyOwn.com, seedsuperstore, etc..
> 
> By getting out of the big box stores you'll find better product that is often times cheaper, or at least a much better value.


Dont get your hopes up a out going to siteones, they make you feel small like a measly no nothing person. 
Some people have good site ones but myself and Many on these forums get BS from siteones.

When i went to mine I asked for urea and they argued with me why I am using it and tried to sell me something else. After agreeing not to agree, they ended up not even having any in stock ans typically dont carry it.


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## dleonard11122 (Jun 24, 2020)

@Thick n Dense I don't personally use SiteOne because I am lucky enough to have a great turf specialty store local to me. Even there, it took a couple times visiting them to build a relationship and give them the idea that I sort of know what I'm doing. These companies are used to wholesaling large amount of product to golf courses and landscapers, so the best thing you can do as a customer is be respectful of their time.


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## JimFromLawnGuyland (Jan 15, 2020)

I just found out certain nitrogen fertilizer is regulated in my home state of New York. I legally can't apply quinclorac, prodiamine and just about anything else. I'm waiting for the day they ban mesotrione. I'm still searching for an easier way then to ship it to Florida and then back to myself.


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## spaceman_spiff (Feb 5, 2021)

Home Depot has 40lbs of 46-0-0 urea for $34 here:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sunshine-Harvest-40-lbs-Box-Urea-Fertilizer-UGF-40/316885117

Ignore the picture. It's actually 46-0-0.


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## simplesimon (Aug 25, 2021)

spaceman_spiff said:


> Home Depot has 40lbs of 46-0-0 urea for $34 here:
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sunshine-Harvest-40-lbs-Box-Urea-Fertilizer-UGF-40/316885117
> 
> Ignore the picture. It's actually 46-0-0.


Thanks, yes this is what I ended up getting.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

JimFromLawnGuyland said:


> I just found out certain nitrogen fertilizer is regulated in my home state of New York. I legally can't apply quinclorac, prodiamine and just about anything else. I'm waiting for the day they ban mesotrione. I'm still searching for an easier way then to ship it to Florida and then back to myself.


Try Seed World USA. Up until a few weeks ago, they shipped to Canada - where everything is restricted. They had issues with orders being stopped at the border. You don't have a border, so you might be able to get what you want.


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## SOLARSUPLEX (Aug 4, 2020)

You'll also realize that a lot of this forum has decent size property. You seem to have 6k sqft which is not a small number. Keep in mind some of the forum members need to save a few bucks here and there because they are buying thousands of pounds / dollars of this stuff per season.


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## simplesimon (Aug 25, 2021)

SOLARSUPLEX said:


> You'll also realize that a lot of this forum has decent size property. You seem to have 6k sqft which is not a small number. Keep in mind some of the forum members need to save a few bucks here and there because they are buying thousands of pounds / dollars of this stuff per season.


I forget some of the exact prices my landscapers charged but it was about $45 per mow (they'd only come about twice a month), $400 each for aeration, fall cleanup, spring cleanup, and around $250 for each fertilizing session which they did 4-5 times one year and zero times the second year.

Yes, the costs definitely added up for me and after all that not a great looking lawn...they even busted a sprinkler head and cracked a basement window in that time...lots of motivation to DIY.


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

simplesimon said:


> SOLARSUPLEX said:
> 
> 
> > You'll also realize that a lot of this forum has decent size property. You seem to have 6k sqft which is not a small number. Keep in mind some of the forum members need to save a few bucks here and there because they are buying thousands of pounds / dollars of this stuff per season.
> ...


It's not uncommon for pros to wreck an occasional sprinkler head. The good pros will fix it and tell you about it.


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## Obi Lawn Kenobi (Jun 20, 2021)

Thick n Dense said:


> dleonard11122 said:
> 
> 
> > The best advice I can give is to find a specialty turf store (or at least a landscape supplier like SiteOne) and go there to do your business. If you have golf courses where you live, odds are that a search for "turf supplier" will give you some local options. Worst case, you can go online to any of the Youtubers (Ryan Knorr, Pete w/ GCI Turf, LCN), DoMyOwn.com, seedsuperstore, etc..
> ...


I did a quick search of the top three siteone branches within 100 miles of Ann Arbor. All three stated that straight urea is " not available for sale in your area. Please contact the branch for a substitute." This leads me to believe this is due to a state regulation and has nothing to do with your particular branch or personnel. It sounds like they were trying to help you out by recommending alternatives. My siteone guys are great! Perhaps this could be due to thier lawn care services at this branch does virtually no business. All of thier trucks are parked there every time I'm there. Seems they have no other use for the inventory but to sell it to me. I suggest contacting your legislator


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

Many feed stores carry urea in this state.

Its a simple concept. 
Im the customer, I get what I want. If you dont have it I'll go elsewhere.

I'd call ahead... i made a trip to mine thinking that all siteones would have urea from this site. Made a special trip to mine and it was a waste while also leaving with a bad experience.

I do live in a densly populated area where rhey dont need homeowners buying product to make ends meet. But again, theres a reason we use urea and not something else.


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## simplesimon (Aug 25, 2021)

Tsmith said:


> Organic fertilizers and grains to improve the soil, Urea for the fall blitz and using Tenacity for pre and post emergent are probably what separate the average homeowner taking care of their lawn and the people who make lawn care a hobby


Why is urea favored over other fertilizers? It seems like more work given the number of applications over a year...is that amount of control intentional?


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

simplesimon said:


> Tsmith said:
> 
> 
> > Organic fertilizers and grains to improve the soil, Urea for the fall blitz and using Tenacity for pre and post emergent are probably what separate the average homeowner taking care of their lawn and the people who make lawn care a hobby
> ...


Yes - its called spoon feeding.
Small N doses over times, basically what the Fall blitz is but can be done any time.

Urea is also cheap and devoid of other things. 
Putting down potassium before winter can lead to snow mold.

Urea is also fast release which means instantly availible N for the plant.

The one draw back is that it does need water or else it could be lost to the atmosphere as it breaks out of its granule. (I think at least thats the reason ).


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## massgrass (Aug 17, 2017)

simplesimon said:


> spaceman_spiff said:
> 
> 
> > Home Depot has 40lbs of 46-0-0 urea for $34 here:
> ...


Don't know where you are located in MA, but Ventura Grain in Taunton and Progressive Grower in Wareham both carry urea.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Ammonium sulfate is another option. It is a 21-0-0 and also a quick release nitrogen.


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

simplesimon said:


> Tsmith said:
> 
> 
> > Organic fertilizers and grains to improve the soil, Urea for the fall blitz and using Tenacity for pre and post emergent are probably what separate the average homeowner taking care of their lawn and the people who make lawn care a hobby
> ...


Urea if favored over big box store products because its 46% Nitrogen and you can usually find it for less than $20 for a 50lb bag. Many of the big box store products are, for example, 32% N and $45+ for a ~40lb bag.

Using urea doesnt necessarily require more applications per year, but the quick release form of N in urea does give you more control over organic ferts with controlled release N.

Urea (and AS) are also easily dissolved in water so you have the ability to spread or spray it.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

JimFromLawnGuyland said:


> I just found out certain nitrogen fertilizer is regulated in my home state of New York. I legally can't apply quinclorac, prodiamine and just about anything else. I'm waiting for the day they ban mesotrione. I'm still searching for an easier way then to ship it to Florida and then back to myself.


I feel your pain. I go to PA every Columbus day weekend with friends for a quick getaway it's my chance to pickup grub ex and a few other things


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## anon_123 (Sep 15, 2021)

Harts said:


> JimFromLawnGuyland said:
> 
> 
> > I just found out certain nitrogen fertilizer is regulated in my home state of New York. I legally can't apply quinclorac, prodiamine and just about anything else. I'm waiting for the day they ban mesotrione. I'm still searching for an easier way then to ship it to Florida and then back to myself.
> ...


 I know someone that used to work there. Can confirm they do not care if it is legal or not, and will ship it to you. Beware of them


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

anon_123 said:


> Harts said:
> 
> 
> > JimFromLawnGuyland said:
> ...


I'm sure this will be true of shipments to states that have restrictions. Sadly, they have stopped shipping to Canada.


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