# Got a toro flex21... about to dump it... stop me



## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

Someone tell me why I should swap my Tru Cut P20 for a toro? I just picked up 3 Greensmasters for a steal. One Flex21 and 2 GM1000s. Guy needed to move them so I took the bait. I've been thinking I wanted to "upgrade" my tru cut to a toro, but after the first test run I'm not so sure this is for me for the following reasons:

1) I assume most of us have to move the mower from the garage or shed to the lawn over the driveway. I hate the sound and thought of the metal drum drive going across the concrete. I have transport wheels, but that kinda seems like a hassle and doesn't help when I need to turn around or do a trim pass(I usually cut over the edge onto the concrete on the trim pass with the P20). The TruCut has rubber wheels and a differential making it super easy to maneuver. I've gotten used to it and know how to treat her to get what I want.

2) The max HOC on the Flex21 is 19/64" unless you add the "High height of cut" kit. I don't want to bother with that. The GM1000 is just under 1". I like to have the flexibility to move the HOC around based on growth rates, rainfall, and my whims. It seems like the toro is way more precise about HOc adjustments, but takes more time to make large adjustments. The Trucut has a handle for HOC adjustment and it's so easy to pick a new hole and bump the cut up or down in a moment.

3) I haven't run the GM1000 yet because it needs some carb work, but the Flex21 was quite a beast. it's probably great on long, straight passes, but I have 4000sq ft in the front where my "show lawn" is and it seems like handling this thing will be more work than I want considering I cut every 2-3 days and I currently enjoy it(don't want to make it a chore). I know Connor and ware(among others)are using the toros, but It's gotta be a workout compared to my Trucut.

Someone please tell me why I should give it more time and why the toro is so much better.

Here's a pic of the lawn. First year to 'mow reel low'. Was thin, leggy and had bare spots last year. WAY BETTER reel low.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Welcome to TLF! Sounds like you've already made your mind up - you're welcome to list them for sale here. :thumbup:


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

Thanks Ware. I figured you'd at least tell me how great those LED lights are or something. Do you feel like you have to man-handle yours? Have you tried any other reels?


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## TC2 (Sep 15, 2017)

Can't disagree with the drum on concrete point! I put on the transport wheels for everything other than the jump across the drive and for that I wince the entire way!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2018)

I've had McLanes, trucuts, John Deere's and now have recently acquired a toro gm 1000. Yes the trucut is easier to maneuver and easy to adjust HOC etc. But you're comparing a homeowner to a commercial greens grade mower. If you're not prepared to put the time in to " tweak" a Greens mower stick with the trucut no one will think lesser of you. If you want sell them please offer them up for sale to other members.


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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

I think the question is- what are you not getting out of your Tru Cut that you would expect to get from the Toro? I've never used a toro, but my tru cut does a great job reel mowing.

If you got a good deal, I'd list them for fair market value and see if you can turn a profit.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

AVguy said:


> Thanks Ware. I figured you'd at least tell me how great those LED lights are or something. Do you feel like you have to man-handle yours? Have you tried any other reels?


Yeah, my first reel was a Tru-Cut C-27. Great mower, but for me it's hard to beat the front and rear rollers on a greens mower. I cross the driveway and make two trips down a ~40' sidewalk to mow my back yard with my GM1600 every time I mow (~3 days a week). It sounds terrible, but it doesn't hurt the drum or the concrete. HOC adjustments are more tedious with a greens mower, but reel to bedknife is way easier than a Tru-Cut. You mentioned the differential - the Greensmasters have one too, along with the split rear drum that makes turning easy once you get the hang of it. You mentioned this was your first test run... I don't think there is anyone that would tell you a greens mower isn't a handful the first few times you use one, but it's a quick learning curve. I mow about 7,500 ft2[/sup] with my 26" GM1600 (2,000 ft[sup]2[/sup] back yard, 500 ft[sup]2[/sup] side yard and 5,000 ft[sup]2 front yard). I wouldn't trade it for a brand new Tru-Cut tomorrow, but everyone likes something a little different. The right answer is "reel mower". :thumbup:


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

This is the kind of feedback I was looking for. Thanks for all the input. I'll give it some time and a few more runs and see if it grows on me. I understand that the TruCut is a homeowner model and not in the same class as the toro, but it's just easy to get out and mow with it and I enjoy it. I want to keep enjoying the mow. But man... them LED lights are cool looking. Maybe I'll just steal them off the toro and implant to the TruCut.


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## btwint (Apr 15, 2018)

AVguy I sent you an email. I am actually looking for a GM 1000. Unless you need 4 mowers lets talk about me taking one of those 1000's off your hands. :thumbup:


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Give the greensmowers a little more time. The first time I used mine it felt like a workout and I even remember telling my wife "that thing just kicked my a$$, I'm not sure I can handle it". Now it's like a walk in the park.

While the HOC adjustment is a bit more tedious on a greensmowers I can count how many times I actually change my HOC each season on one hand. It only takes a few minutes to change it also. The greensmowers have a big leg up when it comes to reel to bedknife adjustments too.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

^+1 to all they said. I also ride my JD over concrete. It sound horrible but it is not a big deal. All the weight is distributed across the rollers. I do like the spring loaded bedknife since I'm not too worried about a few sticks/mulch making it thru. Once you get the hang of feathering the drive and plan your turns, it is very easy to handle.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

J_nick said:


> Give the greensmowers a little more time. The first time I used mine it felt like a workout and I even remember telling my wife "that thing just kicked my a$$, I'm not sure I can handle it". Now it's like a walk in the park.
> 
> While the HOC adjustment is a bit more tedious on a greensmowers I can count how many times I actually change my HOC each season on one hand. It only takes a few minutes to change it also. The greensmowers have a big leg up when it comes to reel to bedknife adjustments too.


Said the same thing after first couple cuts with my GM1000 and started to second guess the purchase. Many cuts later, I'm finally starting to get used it. I'm also like Ware and I roll mine over the concrete, sounds awful, but it is not going to hurt anything.


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## wartee (Mar 27, 2018)

I roll mine over pavers. Makes me cringe every time but doesn't seem to hurt it.


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## DTCC_Turf (May 26, 2018)

Two words: turning boards. Or if you have an old rug or carpet scrap to put on the concrete to use for turns...


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## rhanna (Jun 7, 2017)

3 greensmowers = 3 different HOC :thumbup:


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

rhanna said:


> 3 greensmowers = 3 different HOC :thumbup:


Now we're talking!

So in my excitement to take it for the first test mow I didn't think to check the last guy's setup... WOW! HOC was different by about 1/4" left to right. Reel to bed knife was wonky too and no where near cutting. Bedknife looks straight and only has one tiny knick. I may face it, but I bet a backlap will get it cutting paper.

After some rough adjustments and setting the HOC all the way up I went for test run #2. Guess I'm making a putting green in the backyard with the FLEX21 for now since my front lawn is at 5/8". Anyway, the feel isn't as unbearable as the first run. Maybe some time and practice will help as most of you toro guys have suggested.

May have time this weekend to get the GM1000 running and take it for a spin. BTW, I know some of you are interested in whatever I choose to sell. I won't be keeping 4 mowers. maybe two, but not 4. After I decide what stays and goes I'll offer the other's up here before craigslist and eBay. Will keep you posted.

THANKS FOR THE INPUT TLF!


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

DTCC_Turf said:


> Two words: turning boards. Or if you have an old rug or carpet scrap to put on the concrete to use for turns...


I'm sure that works great, but my neighbors already think I'm nutz. Can't imagine the conversations I'll have if I roll out carpet every time I mow. HAHAHA


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## TigerinFL (Mar 29, 2018)

AVguy said:


> DTCC_Turf said:
> 
> 
> > Two words: turning boards. Or if you have an old rug or carpet scrap to put on the concrete to use for turns...
> ...


yep those folks over there in Helena would be trying to put you in the nervous hospital. :lol:


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

She's growing on me. Got up the nerve to mow the front lawn with the Flex21 after a few test runs in the back and some adjustments. Got the reel to bedknife kinda close, but it's still nowhere near cutting paper. Anyway, with the HOC all the way up the effective HOC on the grass was 3/4"-1" between the high and low spots. I don't hate the feel, but tight spots, like the mailbox will be a challenge for some time. Stripes are nice, but it's late evening. We'll see if it pops tomorrow.

Thanks again for the encouragement to keep trying. I was about ready to give up after the first test.


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## Thor865 (Mar 26, 2018)

AVguy said:


> She's growing on me. Got up the nerve to mow the front lawn with the Flex21 after a few test runs in the back and some adjustments. Got the reel to bedknife kinda close, but it's still nowhere near cutting paper. Anyway, with the HOC all the way up the effective HOC on the grass was 3/4"-1" between the high and low spots. I don't hate the feel, but tight spots, like the mailbox will be a challenge for some time. Stripes are nice, but it's late evening. We'll see if it pops tomorrow.
> 
> Thanks again for the encouragement to keep trying. I was about ready to give up after the first test.


Keep it up. I have a John Deere 220 E and from my knowledge it is way more of a beast than the toro's in terms of weight, length, and getting close to things due to the electric drive and transport axels

I too felt like you did with why the heck did I get this, and second guessing my decision. It honestly took me a month before I got use to it and now I don't think I'd want to mow with anything else.

So before you decide what's best for you give it about 8-10 cuts at least.


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

Thor865 said:


> So before you decide what's best for you give it about 8-10 cuts at least.


That's what I'm thinking. gonna keep tweaking and cutting.

Tonight I found that the measured HOC was right at 9/16" and effective was 3/4" ish. The front roller was still not even left to right, so I just made me an HOC gage. The left adjuster somehow has about 1/8" more travel than the right. But I got it level.

Also working on the headlights tonight. I can't have them if they don't work... they're just too cool. Bulbs are blown. power is good. Now off to ebay some GE 862 lamps.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

The HOC kit for my Flex 21 was $90.95 from R&R, which will allow me to have a range from 0.550"-1.140" on the AccuGage (maxed out). My HOC I plan to keep for the front and back is 0.750", which works out just fine for my situation. Once I get a few sanding/levelling jobs on the ground, and irrigation installed, I'll bring that HOC down.

Installing the HOC kit was a breeze. Loosen the two 10mm bolts holding the front roller on, remove the nut on the HOC adjustment brackets, and slide them off. You can change it out in just a few minutes.

I was like @J_nick when I used it for the first time, because I never thought I'd be able to get the hang of it, but it doesn't take long to learn. Now, I really enjoy using my greens mower, because it lays down some really nice stripes, it's efficient on fuel, relatively quiet, maintenance is pretty straightforward, and parts are plentiful and not too outrageously expensive. I removed the transport axles, because I cross on the sidewalk, and the driveway at the most narrow portion.

As far as repairs go, you've got several people here that have worked on them, or have owned them that you can ask for help should you need help with something.


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

Colonel K0rn said:


> The HOC kit for my Flex 21 was $90.95 from R&R, which will allow me to have a range from 0.550"-1.140" on the AccuGage (maxed out). My HOC I plan to keep for the front and back is 0.750", which works out just fine for my situation. Once I get a few sanding/levelling jobs on the ground, and irrigation installed, I'll bring that HOC down.
> 
> Installing the HOC kit was a breeze. Loosen the two 10mm bolts holding the front roller on, remove the nut on the HOC adjustment brackets, and slide them off. You can change it out in just a few minutes.
> 
> ...


Good info. I looked at the high HOC kit. Maybe next year unless I liquidate some stuff quick. The budget is WAY blown this year. I might be able to live with the HOC where it is. Just need a little time to feel that out. I'm just glad it's way higher that the spec I found saying it was 19/64". That's way too low for me right now.

I do like how much quieter it is than my TruCut. I don't really even need hearing protection, but I'll probably keep using it because I'm an audio guy and I can listen to music while I mow.

Repairs... I opened up the belt covers tonight to check tensions. the reel drive belt is about to lose some teeth. I assume the best place to get that is R&R. And I have some new LED bulbs on the way for the headlights. Can't mow with out high beams.

Did you cut the axles or do they unscrew?

One question I came across tonight... Is the throttle supposed to be spring loaded like mine is? I kinda understand if it is, but I'd also like the ability to lock it at one throttle setting. It currently returns to near idle when I let go and then I gun it for every pass once I get moving. Maybe that's the way you're supposed to work it.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

I mow with my iPhone ear buds in, and have no problem hearing the mower, and the music. It's pretty nice! Best place to get most parts is R&R, just go ahead and replace the belts, and get a roller rebuild kit while you're at it and put it on your shop wall. When you're ready to rebuild it, you've got it and don't have to pay for the extra shipping charges.

The axles unscrew. The right one is standard thread, the left one is left-handed thread.

My throttle is adjustable, and it stays in at the position I move it to with my thumb. I can move it up or down during mid pass if I need to. I can mow slow, or fast, whatever I set the position to. It sounds like you might need to check the throttle cable for a loose connection. It shouldn't return back to an idle position when it's moved away from it; at least mine doesn't. I can take some pictures tomorrow if you'd like.


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

Colonel K0rn said:


> I can take some pictures tomorrow if you'd like.


I don't think you need to bother with pictures, but thanks. I'll check mine and see it anything is amiss. I thought that was kinda strange, but I also enjoyed it a little. Once you get moving on a pass you gun the throttle like a dragster. LOL


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

Man the difference in cut quality is undeniable. I read where someone said it's not like the difference between a rotary and a reel, but from one reel to a much better reel it's still huge to us reel guys. I may be past the point of no return. I can feel the Tru Cut P20 is slipping from my grasp. It's bittersweet.


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

Update:

I've mowed a few times with the flex 21. I think it's too much work in my lawn and I have to trim too much in places where it doesn't reach. Even if I take off the transport shafts there's a big difference between the side of the machine and the edge of the reel. The mailbox post looked a lot better when I was using the TruCut.

I think the bedknife on the Flex 21 is dull. It doesn't cut paper despite reel to bed knife adjustment with light contact. Will backlap this weekend and get it cutting.

I got one of the GM1000s running a few days ago and it seems a lot easier to maneuver. Going to tune it up and give it a try. Plus it's got a way higher max HOC without adding the "High HOC kit".

I may regret this someday, but I think the TruCut P20 and the Flex 21 are going up for sale soon. Just need to get a GM1000 cutting and finalize that. Will most likely keep the other GM1000 for parts. it's a little older model, but most of the parts seem to fit the newer one. I moved the reel clutch/pulley between the two today, along with the reel drive belt cover and they seemed like a fit.


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

AVguy said:


> Colonel K0rn said:
> 
> 
> > I can take some pictures tomorrow if you'd like.
> ...


There is definitely a spring that returns the throttle to idle. I cleaned it up really well around the linkage and it's doing what it's supposed to do. Might be a different revision of the FE120 than you have. I don't really mind it and it seems like a normal part of the process at this point. I just drop the clutch and hit the throttle.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

@AVguy

You should get the second gm1000 running and turn it into a verticutter. There is a dynablade kit for it. No idea what it cost but it is something I plan on doing at some point. I thought get use to maintaining my lawn reel low and in a few years upgrade to the flex and then turn my gm1000 into a verticutter.


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

Ral1121 said:


> @AVguy
> 
> You should get the second gm1000 running and turn it into a verticutter.


That's not a bad idea. I'd have to find a motor for it. One of the Kawasaki motors is locked up. I think they ran it without oil. That motor only has 68 hours on it. Lol.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

AVguy said:


> Ral1121 said:
> 
> 
> > @AVguy
> ...


There are several parts flex 21's in the weeks auction. I believe they have the same motors. Maybe one of them has a motor that runs.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

An OEM Toro verticutter unit for the GM1000 is $1,500. Pretty steep. I think a Classen will be more cost effective, and you'll be able to keep the GM1000 as a spare when the other one goes down for maintenance and your PGR is wearing out.

I, too, am a fan of the 1000. It's kind of the Goldielocks between the TruCut and the Flex.


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

Welp, the GM1000 is ready for her maiden mow.I spent all my free time the last few days swapping engines and other parts to make one great mower out of two. The hour meter on the newer mower is 62.2 hours. I believe that someone ran the engine without oil and they turned it into a parts mower. So everything on it was in great shape... except the engine. The other mower had 1700 hours and a good motor(engine-I know... motors are electric), but was older and had a few other problems I didn't want to fix so I decided to make the newer one the best it can be. I gotta say, it turned out pretty nice. Everything cleaned up well and looks really impressive. Pics tomorrow.

I intend to fall in love with it tomorrow and put the Flex21 and TruCut up for sale this week. Just need tomorrow to go well.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

You are going to like your gm1000. Have you considered keeping on of the others as a backup? That way when your main mower is down, you don't have to worry about trying to keep your hoc. You can keep rolling with the backup until you get the gm1000 fixed.


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

That's a good thought, but I have a parts mower and I feel like I can get it fixed pretty quick. I do my own fixing. Also, I wouldn't feel too bad about using the rotary mower if it came to that. I have too much yard equipment and some of it needs to go.

I'm still considering making a verticutter out of my parts mower, but I'd have to find an engine first. Maybe next year.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

I wonder if you could replace the Kawasaki with a Honda gx120. You can get them brand new for around 300 and parts are cheap compared to the Kawasaki or even Subaru


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

Ral1121 said:


> I wonder if you could replace the Kawasaki with a Honda gx120. You can get them brand new for around 300 and parts are cheap compared to the Kawasaki or even Subaru


Interesting thought. There's a gx120 on the tru cut. Hmmm


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

I made a discovery today. I can't believe I didn't see it before now. The "High Height of Cut" kit is already on my GM1000. I went to change the HOC to 1" and realized that at 1" it's at less than half the travel of the adjusters. And the adjusters are tall and made of a different(gold-ish) material than the stock ones. How did I miss that?

Anyway, loving the GM1000 so far. It tends to keep pulling long after I release the drive engage handle. I think the cable needs adjustment, but I broke the threads where the adjust meant is made. Oh well, will figure a way to fix it or find a replacement cable assembly. The reel and bedknife are cutting like butter. Both have an excellent edge. Plus I have a replacement already for both in new condition.

One issue: I can't pull the drive drum in reverse. it won't roll backwards do to drag from the drive pulleys and belts. Is that normal? Should I try adjusting something?

The Flex21 is almost ready to take pics and sell. She's sweet, and in great shape, but too much for my yard.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

Did you disengage the reel by flipping the knob down on the right of the mower?


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

Ral1121 said:


> Did you disengage the reel by flipping the knob down on the right of the mower?


Not sure I understand. I know that the knob on the right engages the reel. I don't have it engaged unless I'm mowing.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

AVguy said:


> One issue: I can't pull the drive drum in reverse. it won't roll backwards do to drag from the drive pulleys and belts. Is that normal? Should I try adjusting something?


Does it work better if you back the reel off the bedknife a few clicks on each side?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

@Ware Good question. I can pull backwards on my GM no problems. If you cannot, the reel-bedknife adjustment might be a little too tight.


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> @Ware Good question. I can pull backwards on my GM no problems. If you cannot, the reel-bedknife adjustment might be a little too tight.


It won't go backwards even with the reel disengaged. And it's 'reel' hard to push forward when the engine isn't running. Something must be too tight.


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

Ware said:


> AVguy said:
> 
> 
> > One issue: I can't pull the drive drum in reverse. it won't roll backwards do to drag from the drive pulleys and belts. Is that normal? Should I try adjusting something?
> ...


Nope. it's hard with the reel disengaged.


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

the brake is off and the pad ring thing is loose.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Or that is the nature of the Flex 21. Is there any way to put the traction unit in neutral.


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> Or that is the nature of the Flex 21. Is there any way to put the traction unit in neutral.


I'm actually using the GM1000 for the last 2 weeks. The flex is for sale. The drum stays engaged to everything but the engine drive pulled when the clutch is diengaged. I think my clutch may be tight or he belts are old and stiff(more likely). May try new belts and fresh adjustment soon. It's not a huge deal. Just can't back up unless I drag that beast.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Belts might be set tight then. I set mine so that there is no drag when the traction lever is not engaged and my reel-bedknife is only tight enough to cut paper no more. I backlap quite a bit as well.


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> Belts might be set tight then. I set mine so that there is no drag when the traction lever is not engaged and my reel-bedknife is only tight enough to cut paper no more. I backlap quite a bit as well.


Finally got this figured out. I broke the traction drive cable a couple days ago and had to replace it. While it was up on the bench I looked The belts and tried to find any drag. Only place I saw possible drag was the bellcrank clutch at the engine. I checked the engine mount and it was all the way back. Moved it forward half way and drag is gone. Mower will now roll backwards.


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

For those of you who asked me to let them know when a mower was for sale:

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4386&p=79735#p79735


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## Cjames1603 (Jul 25, 2018)

I'm looking for a flex. I built a putting green (which I'm going to re sprig in the spring with celebration Bermuda and the tru cut c-27 which is a rockstar home reel just won't go low enough. So for my sons future PGA career lol, I'm going to get rid of a family memeber (the c-27). And move to a true greens mower. My question is.... can I raise height of cut easily enough to cut the green at 5/32 and 6 days a week and every 3 days maybe get her up to 1/2 inch for the lawn or am I dreaming? I'm working on leveling front this weekend and the back next spring. But the c-27 does a fine stripe job I just can't keep both for space reasons and I like sleeping in he same bed as my wife


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## AVguy (May 21, 2018)

You can adjust it pretty easily. It just takes a few minutes. You'll need to buy or build a height of cut gauge. I built mine. I change my HOC fairly frequently, which isn't the best thing for my lawn, but I have reasons from time to time. Like this week I'm away and I scalped it so it wouldn't be too overgrown when I return.


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## Cjames1603 (Jul 25, 2018)

So this guy took the flex off of AV's hands. And have worried him with questions since lol. The first time I cut with it which was immediately after I took it off the trailer my wife broughtt water, Gatorade, beer. I guess I looked like I was dying. That mower was using me. I wasn't using it. But I have gotten the hang of it and the feel of it. Love love love. I found that if you try and man handle it, IT wins. But if you let it do it's thing and just walk with it then it's very enjoyable. I can't say after half cutting the first day I wasn't thinking " what have I done!!!!" But pretty quickly it has turned to " look what I did!!!!" Thanks AV.


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