# DIY vs Professional



## jayteebee (Mar 26, 2019)

Hello Everyone!

New to the board as of today and I appreciate the welcome to the community!

TL;DR... skip to last paragraph if not willing to read.

To make a long story long - I bought my first house here in Nashville, Tn at the beginning of the year that was renovated after being vacant for roughly 8-10 years. As you can imagine, the yard and soil are in extremely poor condition and for what it's worth, 99% of the yards in the neighborhood are terrible I don't think people care too much but that's where I'm different. My first job at 15 was cutting yards with a push mower and a weed eater on my back - I've always looked forward to owning a yard. I would definitely argue that I'm a beginner, but I've been researching, watching videos and listening to many podcasts.

My soil temps finally hit the 50-55 degree mark so I threw down Scotts Halts Crabgrass a couple weeks ago (before doing to much research) and from what I've learned, there's obviously better products out there. Keeping my fingers crossed here. Then, I decided to throw down Milorganite to help fertilize this poor yard because it's dead. Since I have a 32,000 sq ft yard, I'm already $300+ into this thing and I would need to spend at least another $140ish to start post emergent treatment. Not to mention the best ones are liquid and my wife has already stated she doesn't want a bunch of chemicals laying around.

I got a quote from Lawn doctor back in Februrary for a 6 visit treatment plan with everything a yard would ever need, but decided to try to DIY. Well, I've already spent over 1/3 of what the quote was and I see myself surpassing Lawn Doctors price, while also hoping my beginner knowledge pans out and actually works. *My question (finally....)* should I throw away my man card and have a professional come "kick-start" my lawn for me? Seems to be more beneficial at this point for my wallet, and a better deal for my yard having someone experienced knock everything out.

Thank you in advance everyone. Really in a pickle here.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

In my opinion, even though the initial investment is steep, you always come out ahead in the long run (a season or two, maybe sooner with that large a yard) by doing it yourself. Just like your money, no one watches your lawn as well as you do. Herbicides, fertilizer and equipment can have large upfront costs, but are cheaper per app than box store items or having them put down by a company. I certainly wouldn't be buying Milo with that size lawn.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

First, welcome to TLF!

This is something really only you can decide, but I would say cost is only one of many factors most of us take into consideration when deciding to DIY. That said, as dfw_pilot alluded to, the products you choose can have a _significant_ impact on your total costs. Let's start with the pre-emergent, since you just applied that...

For a 32,000 ft2[/sup] lawn, I would be using Prodiamine. At $0.782/oz and a max annual rate of 0.83 oz/M, your total annual pre-emergent cost would be roughly $21. Granted, you need something to spray it with, but that's dirt cheap for a year's worth of pre-e control.

For comarison, a 10lb bag of Scotts Halts is about $18 before tax around here and I think they say it covers 5,000 ft[sup]2[/sup]? So for 32,000 ft[sup]2 you would need about 6.4 bags, which would cost $115.20 plus tax... and that's just for one app!

Although probably not as extreme, we would see similar results comparing the cost of Milorganite to good slow-release synthetic option for a lawn that size. So before you decide to throw in the towel, I think it would definitely be worth re-examining the products you're using. Folks here at TLF will gladly share their knowledge, so please don't hesitate if you have any questions at all. :thumbup:


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## jayteebee (Mar 26, 2019)

Ware said:


> First, welcome to TLF!
> 
> This is something really only you can decide, but I would say cost is only one of many factors most of us take into consideration when deciding to DIY. That said, as dfw_pilot alluded to, the products you choose can have a _significant_ impact on your total costs. Let's start with the pre-emergent, since you just applied that...
> 
> ...


Ware -

I appreciate your welcome and response. I totally agree there's more factors than just cost when wanting to DIY - it's because we love it! This is why I feel like I'm in a rut because I love being out in the yard - but feel like I'm wasting time and money :roll: I almost wonder if a years worth of personal research and a professional jump start to my yard is a better option.

I've read a lot about Prodiamine, Dimension and Dithiopyr - really hate that I used mediocre Scotts at $120 worth of granular. To be honest, throwing grains seemed a lot easier to me than mixing water with chemicals and being out in the yard with safety gear on, but I guess that's why it costs more.

I'm less worried about pre-emerg and this point, and more worried about post-emergent and fertilizer, along with aerating and seeding in the fall. My lawns filled with weeds but again, I'm not very knowledgeable at mixing water and chemicals and then going out there confident I won't over-apply or burn the grass.

Thanks for your time I truly appreciate it :mrgreen: May have to sleep on this one...


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## twolf (Jan 25, 2019)

Here are some stats I gathered about N per lb from different sources available in my area:

HD Vigoro 15,000 sq. ft. Lawn Fertilizer 44.4 lb 29-0-4 $32.98 ($2.56 per lb N)
HD Scott's 42.5 lb. Southern Turf Builder Lawn Fertilizer 32-0-10 $41.98 ($3.08 lb per N)
SiteOne LESCO Fertilizer 46-0-0 Spreadable 240 SGN 50 lb. $33.16 ($1.44 per lb N)
HD 6-4-0 Milorganite 36 lb. Slow-Release Nitrogen Fertilizer $14.98 ($6.94 per lb N)

Milo is not cost effective, and with 32K it is cost prohibitive.

Let me share how I went to DIY lawn care. I have a new house and the builder provided 1 year of lawn care.
I was not happy every time I had found a note from a lawn care professional with "Do not water for next 24 hours" (and there was rain in the forecast), or the opposite "water in the next 48 hours" (and there was no rain in the forecast). Needless to say I did not (and still do not) have irrigation, so it was quite a chore for me to water it down. 
I understood they cannot synch with forecasts for every lawn, that's fine.
So, I switched to DIY, and used HD for my supplies. I do not think it was better money-wise, just more fun.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

None of you rookies have given a cost per M for wifely aggravation.

So here's my two cents:

Have someone else do it for one year, while you do the yard work and interior projects that you can save money on.

Then, spend a few bucks to get the chems you need to keep it up.

32000 square feet is a LOT for one person to handle with no chems or equipment in hand.

Let her have a win and take over next year.


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## bassadict69 (Apr 2, 2018)

When I decided to do something about my yard, I first hired someone to do the 6 application deal. It worked out pretty well, but at the same time I realized after tons of research on here that I was getting the same treatments that several hundred yards were getting and I realized that with mine being such a mess, it need a little more than what they were providing, ie, lime to increase pH, more fertilizer than they were using, etc.

I asked tons of questions each time they came out and luckily they were more than willing to provide the info, even though they were aware that I would be taking over after a year.

I also have probably close to 30k sq feet and only had them treat my 15k back yard... this year I am tackling the rest of the yard and the backyard myself. This site is a lifesaver, don't hesitate to ask questions and read, read, read!


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

SCGrassMan said:


> None of you rookies have given a cost per M for wifely aggravation...


Meh, my wife appreciates having the nicest lawn in town.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Ware said:


> SCGrassMan said:
> 
> 
> > None of you rookies have given a cost per M for wifely aggravation...
> ...


It will still be the nicest if he hires somebody  I'm just thinking of all the projects I had to do when I first moved in.


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

Figure out what works best logically and then see if the price justify's the outcome your looking for.

You could scalp and level till fall and try a bluemuda lawn, it's whatever ecosystem you want the norm to be.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

SCGrassMan said:


> It will still be the nicest if he hires somebody


 :lol:

In the words of @wardconnor, "Don't kid yourself!"

I would put the average TLF lawn up against the average fert 'n squirt lawn _any_ day.


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## jayteebee (Mar 26, 2019)

This is all great stuff. I knew this forum would be a huge help!

Since my post I'm still going back and forth... my darn indecisiveness is really getting to me.

Here's a picture of my quote and front yard. Obviously have tons of weeds and bare spots - she needs some serious loving.. I've already found some amazing information on this site, but just feeling overwhelmed. Not to mention everything else on my plate moving into a new house :?

Out of Lawn doctor, weed man and TruGreen... Lawn Doctor was the only who who actually walked my yard and gave me an analysis as shown below. Leaning towards them if I do take the professional route..


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Ware said:


> SCGrassMan said:
> 
> 
> > It will still be the nicest if he hires somebody
> ...


I'd still put that against an untreated lawn. Just for a year, not forever. I factor in my wife's wishes heavily. Now mine doesn't care but if she did...


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Ware said:


> SCGrassMan said:
> 
> 
> > It will still be the nicest if he hires somebody
> ...


I agree to that.

I have 38k sq ft of lawn that I maintain myself. If i had to estimate, your 6 treatment plan from the lawn doctor was around $1000. If you did the minimal just like they will do, you could do it yourself for 20-25% the cost of what they are charging, but you will have to allow yourself to buy your products where the professionals go, and allow yourself to spray. You will also need the equipment to get it done. As far as time commitment, comparing what they would do, you would only be in the yard 6x a year and for not that long, which is not a major time commitment. I cringe when my neighbor tells me what he pays for a company and then complains how his yard looks nowhere near as nice as mine.



jayteebee said:


>


I found it interesting that they are making a lime recommendation in that quote. Did they perform a soil test?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

To Pete's point, I think one could definitely make the case that the larger the lawn, the more DIY makes sense financially.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Ware said:


> To Pete's point, I think one could definitely make the case that the larger the lawn, the more DIY makes sense financially.


There you go - using words like "sense", "making the case" - these concepts are doomed to failure 😂


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think we could round and round on this subject. Doing your own lawn care will save you money since anyone out there is doing it for profit. The difference is your time commitment.

In my signature you will find a guide to cool season lawns. I suggest the tier 1 approach which is PreM in spring and nitrogen in the fall. That's it.

This year I'm trying to provide more info for the Tier1 folks. This posting has products that you could get at your local stores for prem. Spring 2019


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

See if you got a TLM member within bribery distance to help you! Best of all worlds.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

First of all you should look at your indecisiveness not as a fault but as a plus. You know that your knowledge on the matter is limited and you are willing to admit that you need more time to learn. In addition to yard damage, incorrect application can lead to environmental damage and possible health issues. Maybe take it in small steps. Get a good sprayer (with your lawn size you are going to have to decide on backpack or push) and practice. Find some soil additives that are dummy proof and learn your land. This fall put down your own pre emergent. At that point decide if you want to move forward. If not you are really just out the cost of the sprayer. I thoroughly enjoyed taking care of my lawn this last year and would recommend it to anyone that is willing to learn and understand the why's as well as the how's. But you have to enjoy it and be confident in your ability. Best of luck.


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## jayteebee (Mar 26, 2019)

TN Hawkeye said:


> First of all you should look at your indecisiveness not as a fault but as a plus. You know that your knowledge on the matter is limited and you are willing to admit that you need more time to learn. In addition to yard damage, incorrect application can lead to environmental damage and possible health issues. Maybe take it in small steps. Get a good sprayer (with your lawn size you are going to have to decide on backpack or push) and practice. Find some soil additives that are dummy proof and learn your land. This fall put down your own pre emergent. At that point decide if you want to move forward. If not you are really just out the cost of the sprayer. I thoroughly enjoyed taking care of my lawn this last year and would recommend it to anyone that is willing to learn and understand the why's as well as the how's. But you have to enjoy it and be confident in your ability. Best of luck.


You hit the nail on the head for me. I'm worried about incorrect application and environmental damage more than anything. After some long thought, I got a 6 service plan to get my yard jump-started. I'm going to do as much research and learning as I can throughout the year and start DIY'n in the fall with the the aeration/ seeding.



Pete1313 said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> > SCGrassMan said:
> ...


They apparently performed a soil test but when I asked the sales rep working at "headquarters" for more info she wouldn't give it to me. Called back later, got a different rep and ended up getting in touch with the technician who came out. All he told me was my pH level was 6.2.. said that's all he could provide me.



SCGrassMan said:


> None of you rookies have given a cost per M for wifely aggravation.
> 
> So here's my two cents:
> 
> ...


This is what ended up happening to a "T". I'll be on these boards daily getting prepared to start DIY'n in the fall.

This board rocks! Thanks everyone for the input and look forward to making some new friends around here.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

jayteebee said:


> After some long thought, I got a 6 service plan to get my yard jump-started.


I sense you probably had your mind made up before you started this thread, but glad you got it sorted out. :thumbup:

I would definitely make them aware of however much pendimethalin you applied so they don't double down with another DNA this spring.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Ware said:


> Meh, my wife appreciates having the nicest lawn in town.


We're in the same boat. My wife didn't like the time investment on the front end, but finally conceded, when she remarked, I didn't want to tell you, but the yard looks SOOOOO good. How do we make it look like this every year?


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## jayteebee (Mar 26, 2019)

Movingshrub said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> > Meh, my wife appreciates having the nicest lawn in town.
> ...


I'll get there one day!


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

Dont kid yourself is right @SGrabs33 Our lawn are better than the Trugreen lawns.

Do it yourself, hire a professional. 6's if you are not mentally there. If this is something that you want (mentally) then you can have the nicest lawn in your town within a year or 2 for a minimal amount of cost. Yeah like they all said..... the up front costs are gonna hurt a little... and remember this important phrase. "Buy nice or buy twice." If you do not believe me ask Johnny Ware @Ware.

Here is what you need to decide on in my opinion. Is this where you want to spend your time? Do you want to do lawn care? Is spending time working in your landscape worth your time? Would you rather not do lawn care or applications?

For a lot of use lawn care and doing applications has really become a hobby and is fun for us. Some people would find us a little crazy for saying that. Is this something that you want to do and something that you could see yourself enjoying? Does the thought of getting off work with the anticipation to go apply or mow make you smile? Do you find yourself reading about lawn care and application rates and find that enjoyable? If so then this is for you.

Here is the other deal. What will you gain from all this? Knowledge. A lot stuff is trial and error for me at least. I am not afraid to try. Most people in reality are just afraid to try and are worried about what might happen when it reality if you are careful, not much will go wrong. Just try.. this is the main hurdle.

So lets say you screw something up. What are you out? You are out a little bit of time waiting for the lawn to recover. Its grass of all things. Its pretty resilient and grows back pretty fast(especially if you have bermuda or bluegrass).

In the end you will win no matter which way you go. Knowledge if one way, money if another, and experience in yet another.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2019)

My wife and I have corporate jobs and small kids, I have several hobbies I put ahead of lawn Care. So far I think I am saving money, learning and getting a better lawn than most. I moved to a new turn last year and inherited a really bad lawn. Spent 1k on it last year on grass seed, feet, two sprinkler repairs (one time I fixed it myself other time I hired a contractor to fix), aeration (hired that out too, cost the same as renting the aerator and I don't have a truck) at my old house I didn't have time to mow so when we moved and I took over lawn care I needed to tune up the mower. Bought a new spreader and sprayer. We bought the house

This year I will only spend a couple hundred on the lawn. Already spent $140 on getting and prodiamine and 4 bags of chicken manure I can spread. In the fall I might throw down carbon x or just use leftover Scott's stuff I have in the garage. I am ok with 3-4 fert apps per year and spot treatments a few times per year with weed b gone and quinclorac. If I was to hire anything out it would be mowing.

I think once you have the lawn decent you can just mow and spend $100-200 a year on lawn products and be in good shape with proper mowing and watering.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

My number 1 and 2 advice to you are based on doing these the wrong way.

Number 1, buy yourself a good spreader. Get the Lesco. It's $500 or so and it's commercial grade.

Number 2, buy yourself a good sprayer - the lesco spreader mate.

You're looking at $1400 or so combined I'm told. These are both once in a lifetime purchases.

So next year you can say to the wife "this will pay for itself in X seasons, now that I'm done with ABC projects"

I don't know why but curtains should be extremely high on your list of projects to complete.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

wardconnor said:


> Dont kid yourself is right @SGrabs33 Our lawn are better than the Trugreen lawns.


Hey now, I never said trugreen lawns were better than ours  I said they'd still be the best in his neighborhood, and better than the neighbors that do nothing.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2019)

Scgrassman I'm actually ok with the cheapo Scott's spreader on an 8k SQ ft lawn. I know they can break but if so I laugh and but another one. Eleven years home ownership and I've bought two.

I think that buying a quality mower and keeping a sharp blade is the best return on investment you can get in lawn care. Proper watering in the heat provides a lot of roi.

If you don't have a nice thick lawn already and you live somewhere hot, a pre-emergent is a non-negotiable for me. A big fall fertilizer app is a non-negotiable, I think that is necessary. Some of you may be saying 'well duh' but I have read some consumer reports saying you only need to fertilize once a year. Some spot treating weeds is also needed.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

@jayteebee During the year while you do your research, consider if you would like a cool season lawn or a warm season lawn. What would work best in your area for your climate? If you don't love spending time in the lawn, then bermuda would be an easier and better choice as can spread quickly, repair itself, and is quite tough but it'll be brown in winter. The cool season grasses would struggle in summer and take more work to maintain but will be green in the winter. I haven't seen a good mix of bermuda and fescue. It usually looks patchy. If you want a mix, use bermuda and bluegrass but this is definitely a more advanced approach to lawn care. I would recommend considering this before you DIY next year as it'll look much nicer if it's uniform.


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## jayteebee (Mar 26, 2019)

@Suburban Jungle Life

I appreciate the advice my friend - I certainly need it!

I've been doing a ton of reading on this board since my initial post and have learned more than I can could've imagined in such a short time. I've learned a ton about pre & post-ems and fertilizers since it's "that time of the season" and there's lots of podcasts, threads and videos about steps to take in the spring. I haven't spent too much time researching specific grass types yet, but I definitely need to because that's when I plan to start DIY'n - I'm going to aerate and seed myself this fall.

I know I'm in the transition zone which often has a mix of cool and warm. I'm leaning towards cool season but still need to do more research. The reason I have a mix of bermuda and fescue, is because when they renovated this house last fall, they just threw down fescue seed to fill in what they tore up in the lawn. And to be completely honest, the only reason I know I have those particular grasses is because someone told me so. I'm very newb to grass types.

I love to be in the lawn that's not an issue whatsoever, and I look forward to taking over come fall. I've just been busy with moving in, helping the wife around the house and what have you. But when I put pre-em and Milo down earlier in the month, my wife noticed I had a huge grin on my face and she could tell I loved it. I was like a kid in a candy store out there with my spreader. However, what this boiled down to was I spent way too much on granular products since I've got 30k sq ft, and I didn't feel comfortable with mixing liquid concentrates - I didn't want to hurt my lawn or the environment.. especially since I suck at math. I think that is going to be the biggest learning curve for me.

Jacked up on coffee and my Vols play today - sorry for the rant!


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

@jayteebee one thing you could do on your own that doesn't cost much is to perform your own soil test. There are plenty of options to choose from when it comes to soil testing labs, and Ryan Knorr made a good YouTube video that explained what to do if you're unsure. I recommend that you trust, but verify the results of the test that your company said they performed. I found it suspect that they said you had moderate crabgrass pressure when it's not actively growing. :roll:

Waypoint Analytical, Spectrum Analytics, and other don't cost much for their services.

With your own soil test performed, you'll have a baseline to find out what you're working with, and where your changes will need to be focused on. It's easy to modify your health of your turf when you #getyourdirtright

Also, be sure to find out what they're applying to your yard when they come to treat, whether it's herbicide, pesticide or fertilizer. I understand that you might be cautious at this point of your ownership, and it's good that you are. You can put down a granular PreM come Fall, and have good success with it going into next year.


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## jayteebee (Mar 26, 2019)

@Colonel K0rn

You know, a soil test is a great idea and something that I've been doing a lot of research on. I know that getting the soul right is key going into fall when I aerate and overseed. My problem is, I put Milo down last weekend and I've read not to send soil in after you fertilize, but I haven't been able to find how long I need to wait 🤨

As far as finding out what they're applying, I worked from home the day they were scheduled to come out and talked with the tech. He sprayed dimension and comes back late spring to do a granular preM(not sure which one yet) and a 24-0-6 slow release granular fertilizer.

I really wish i had this knowledge BEFORE spring. I would've thatched or at least aerated my yard before starting PreMs. As I walk around and water there's still a lot of leaves and debris on the ground. I'd hate to mess with the preM barrier but I'm worried none of the herbz or fertz are getting to the soil. Decisions decisions...


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## jayteebee (Mar 26, 2019)

@Ware and anyone who cares... I ditched the lawn service!! I had enough of their BS.

I went into a local landscape supply shop and they coincidentally have a turf management specialist who was in the industry for 15 years. We're submitting a soil test, I bought some pre and postM's, and I have a customized schedule!!

I feel like a new man and had to share. Excited to go on this journey with y'all.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

jayteebee said:


> Ware and anyone who cares... I ditched the lawn service!! I had enough of their BS.
> 
> I went into a local landscape supply shop and they coincidentally have a turf management specialist who was in the industry for 15 years. We're submitting a soil test, I bought some pre and postM's, and I have a customized schedule!!
> 
> I feel like a new man and had to share. Excited to go on this journey with y'all.


Awesome! Don't hesitate if you have any questions - there is a ton of collective knowledge among the membership here!


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