# Former pasture to lawn?



## RyanMcD (Jun 14, 2019)

Hey all, first time poster here looking for some advice. Sorry, this is going to be a long post...

Background:
I completed construction on a new home in April and am finally settled down enough to direct some attention towards fixing up the lawn. I'm currently mowing/attempting to maintain 3.5 acres (~160k SF) of what used to be cow pasture. It's been largely abandoned for many years and only cut down with a brush cutter a few times per year. It's zone 7a with pretty much all compacted clay soil and is currently a huge mess of random native grasses, broadleaf plants, and some completely bare patches. The contractor attempted to plant seed on the immediate area around the house, but the spring planted seed didn't survive the hot summer. Unfortunately, I don't have irrigation and likely never will. I do have a tractor and a 40 gallon spray rig for applying any treatments needed.

I know I'm up against a lot of challenges, but I really don't have a lot of expectations other than getting something "green" everywhere and not the muddy mess that gets created every time it rains. I have read through some posts on here, in particular the Cool Season Lawn Guide and feel like I've learned quite a bit, but haven't found much about dealing with very large areas.

With all that said, it really boils down to three questions:
1. Let's say I want to try to seed ~40k SF immediately around the house this fall to try to fix the dead areas. Is it a waste of time and money to seed with all these weeds and mixed plants? I know I can go ahead and probably get a round or two of spraying in before fall, but really don't want to do a renovation if possible.
2. Can anyone recommend products (pesticides/fertilizer/seed) that are less costly for dealing with bigger yards?
3. I can't afford to overseed everything right now, but is there anything I can start doing now to improve the rest of the lawn without seed? I'm afraid killing the weeds will just leave it completely bare.

Any help is greatly appreciated!


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## krusej23 (May 8, 2018)

I would say try to kill off the weeds a month or so ahead of seeding which would probably be about now so the weeds aren't taking any nutrients or water away from your new seedlings. They would then provide some cover for your seedlings also from some sun. Try planting seed in the immediate area around the house and the area that most people see when going to your house and then learn from that so you can take that knowledge to the bigger area that you probably don't care about as much. Good luck and maybe create a "renovation" thread so we can see the progress. I know it's not technically a renovation but it kind of is from the way you talked about it. Good luck!


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## troksd (Jul 27, 2018)

Start with the Cool season lawn guide
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1595

Assuming this is a full renovation, here are some things I would do:

Map the lawn location and do a soil test

Start killing the existing pasture early August

Apply biological dethatcher mid - late August

Mulch any remaining lawn debris

Core aerate (Do not till as this could cause some undesirable seeds to germinate)

Seed with Tall Fescue and some KBG

Fertilize 5 to 10 days after seeding

Helpful herbicides include:

Glyphosate to kill off existing grass

Tenacity as a preemergent and weed killer

Ornamec as a grassy weed killer

Pylex ($$$$) as a grassy and broadleaf killer

Triclopyr as a post emergent (4 - 6 weeks after seeding)

Tractor supply sells a 2.5 gallon 20-0-0 fertilizer for about $34 (covers 6k square feet). Products with sea kelp (RGS is a popular one. ) can aid in seed germination and root development. U may tank mix and spray the Glyphosate and Tenacity on the day of seeding.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Welcome to TLF!


RyanMcD said:


> I'm currently mowing/attempting to maintain 3.5 acres (~160k SF) of what used to be cow pasture.


My lawn was previously farmland, and it had a garden variety of grassy weeds common to Tenn. You can definitely get rid of them, but herbicides will be key, even if that means that you are left with mostly soil.



RyanMcD said:


> I completed construction on a new home in April


My house was also new construction. Be on the lookout for rocks, bricks, and construction debris underneath the soil surface. That will save you from some frustration later on.


RyanMcD said:


> I don't have irrigation and likely never will.


You can get by without a system, but pick a small area to irrigate rather than trying to target your whole property. Invest in some hoses and some good sprinklers. You will need to give your grass water during the summer and when you are seeding. Water is also often needed as part of the application process for granular products like synthetic nitrogen. 


RyanMcD said:


> 1. Let's say I want to try to seed ~40k SF immediately around the house this fall to try to fix the dead areas. Is it a waste of time and money to seed with all these weeds and mixed plants? I know I can go ahead and probably get a round or two of spraying in before fall, but really don't want to do a renovation if possible.


IMO, yes, it will be a waste if you are trying to get a really nice lawn. No, it will not be a waste if you are gaining experience. Let me explain. I don't buy the idea of crowding out weeds by growing grass. Weeds are good at winning. The only way to get a really nice lawn is to kill the weeds. If you are not feeling comfortable with that, use your existing lawn as a training ground. Try seeding this fall and occasional weed control as you feel comfortable. Just don't expect things to go well. Then, after a year or two, perhaps you will feel more comfortable with the idea of bare dirt for a month or two before getting a stellar lawn. Experience will change your outlook. Renovations seem like a big deal -- and they are -- but they are totally doable with knowledge and experience. 


RyanMcD said:


> 2. Can anyone recommend products (pesticides/fertilizer/seed) that are less costly for dealing with bigger yards?


Most everyone on this forum likes a deal. I don't know of any products designed specifically for people with larger lawns. Look at your local co-op. I usually find good deals on fert and pre-M at mine. Check the marketplace at TLF.


RyanMcD said:


> 3. I can't afford to overseed everything right now, but is there anything I can start doing now to improve the rest of the lawn without seed? I'm afraid killing the weeds will just leave it completely bare.


Soil test. Getting rid of rocks and debris. Addressing compaction via core aeration. Pick a small slice of your lawn to be the project. Don't try to tackle acres -- at least right now. @Grass Clippins has a large property. Might give his journal a read.


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## RyanMcD (Jun 14, 2019)

Thank you all for the helpful replies!

I think I will divide this project up into three "rings", working from the inner ring out over time. 
Ring 1 - immediate area around house (20k SF)
Ring 2 - area including entire front and back yard (60k SF)
Ring 3 - fields on left and right side of house (~160k SF)

This is the first lawn I've done anything for other than mow, so it will hopefully be good practice to start on a smaller scale and work out. This year, I think I will attempt a renovation on Ring 1, overseed/selective herbicide on Ring 2, and leave Ring 3 alone.


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## NightShiftNinja (Jun 15, 2019)

When it comes to herbicides seeing as you say your place was former pasture land I am guessing you have a "farm supply" store somewhere nearby, (being in canada our rules are much different) but if you can find some of the herbicides that the farmers spray are much more cost effective, you may need to do a bit of research as to the product names, however most of the people that work in that industry will be more than helpful if you tell them what your looking for


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## krusej23 (May 8, 2018)

Do you have some pictures of the areas?


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

There is nothing wrong with mowed weeds. They are a green ground cover with roots in the ground preventing erosion. Generally if you have bare soil, weeds will take over all by themselves. It is nice to have a lawn of grass, no weeds. Your limitation will be irrigation. How much space can you water? How many hose bibs do you have? How much area can a sprinkler cover? How many sprinklers will you need? How can you connect them all to your water source and control them? Seed needs to be kept moist for germination, which means light watering several times a day. An alternative to sprinklers would be going out several times a day with a hose and nozzle and hand watering. You can try to plant without irrigation and rely on just rain and if you do that, you should seed when there is a prolonged spell of light rain and clouds in cool weather. Fertilizer should be watered in, so you will need to time that to right before rain if you don't irrigate. 20k seems like a very large area to renovate (killing weeds, planting seed). Maybe try for 5k at first.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Divide into manageable chunks. Look at some of the larger lawns in your area and see what others are having success with. With that much area, I would shy away from cool season in your location unless I wanted to make a career out of the lawn. Also, without irrigation cool season will never really look great or do well. If you don't completely kill what's there now before changing to something else you will regret it later.

A question for you, are you sure you really want that much lawn? Unless you are retired and love lawn care, it will get old quickly. Also expensive if you want it to look really good. My personal opinion is that much lawn is boring to look at. Before diving in, I'd consider my options. Forested buffer areas with indigenous trees, huge shrub, flower and ground cover beds, areas of rough just like a golf course, mini fields of wild flowers, etc., etc. You have plenty of options - mix things up.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Delmarva Keith has very good points. Here is a picture of a field at our property at the river. It is mowed crabgrass:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0HRKZCYqPHTmUCXhHdgs4XlIA

Over on the soil fertility forum, under the topic of topsoil depth, you'll find a picture of 2 acres of KBG and rye. Granted, he is having some soil issues. But is it really worth all the expense and work to have so much grass? Even if the grass was in tip top shape, it still would be unimpressive in such a flat canvas.

On one side of my field are fig trees, apple trees, and blueberry bushes:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0UgISnt5W-PPzGpWLCCOFLWmg

Having some other plantings makes it much nicer than just having a field. We have never planted, fertilized, or watered our field. In the winter and spring there is chickweed and that purple weed, in the summer and fall crabgrass. It is whatever happened to grow. We just mow it, which is enough of a chore.


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