# Need Advice (HGT Bluegrass Reno)



## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Currently working a renovation from Bermuda to HGT bluegrass. The attached photo is from yesterday from a glyphosate treatment done on July 28th. I know bermuda needs multiple applications of glyphosate to ensure you get as much as you can. My question is should I go ahead and scalp the yard and water for a week or 2 and see if anything comes back and then spray or what recommendations do you have?

Thank you


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

Just going to leave this here for you!

https://youtu.be/1FUHiYHiTHw


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

@Reel Low Dad Looking forward to seeing how it turns out for us! Are you going to put anything else down when you seed other than tenacity? I saw Connor Ward put down Air8, humic acid, tenacity, starter fert, and PGR...I'm very interested to see what results he gets from that. When is your planned seed down date?


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

I will apply Air8, RGS, Tournament Ready, Tenacity and probably some other stuff as the days go on.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I don't have any basis for suggesting scalping now rather than later. I definitely recommend that you water it so that you can get it growing again.
I regret having to say this, but I don't think even multiple gly apps will do the trick. You needed a mix. Hopefully, you are still several weeks away from seeding. I would use gly, fluazifop, triclopyr, NIS, and Ammonium sulfate to hit as much of it as possible. Going forward, I would remove only the herbicides that will interfere with your seeding (you will need to check labels; I think fluazifop is 14 days); i.e., continue to use as many as you can until they overlap with your target seeding date.
Also, I would not use glyphosate that is mixed with diquat. You want a slow kill to eliminate bermuda.

I'm really interested to see how this works out for you. I'm also interested to see how Reel Low Dad's PRG does in the Tenn heat.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

I appreciate the response and yes I have some doubt that I will get it all. I have been watering a little bit over the last week and I'm planning on taking it down from 1.75" to about 1" today. Then next weekend I'm planning on doing another gly app. My last gly app will probably be the first week of September and then I'm planning on seeding Sept 16-22 (depending on the forecasts).


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

@Nehf11 4 days so far. Had a little washout from the storms last night.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Looking forward to your results. This blend was in my top 3 of what I wanted to try.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

@Reel Low Dad Wow! You are already threw it down?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Would anyone consider using clethodim? It has a "good" rating for killing bermuda. I don't know the reseed interval and I think 2 sprays is optimal.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

My seed down date is Sept 16. This weekend will be one last Glyph round. Then I will put RGS, Aerate, and Humic 12 leading up to the Sept 16 seed down date.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Would anyone consider using clethodim? It has a "good" rating for killing bermuda. I don't know the reseed interval and I think 2 sprays is optimal.


Interesting. There is overlap in the rate to control bermuda, fescue, and bluegrass, so I would guess that it might injure fescue and bluegrass. Per the label, the clethodim might also be used as an alternative for quackgrass and Johnson grass. I've never heard of it until now.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

social port said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
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> > Would anyone consider using clethodim? It has a "good" rating for killing bermuda. I don't know the reseed interval and I think 2 sprays is optimal.
> ...


I was thinking for a reno. Maybe 2 apps of this before soul stealer?


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

Sure did. The wife was getting annoyed with a dead front yard and the kids were too. I hit the yard last Thursday and Friday with lots of RGS and Air8. Did an additional glyphosate spray on the lawn to make sure and spent all day Saturday and most of Sunday working on it. Sifted 2 yards of topsoil and spread and rolled that. After seed down I applied the N-Ext GreenePop starter fert then tenacity.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

I know the feeling...I'm tired of looking at my dead yard and neighbors asking why I killed the best yard in the neighborhood. Good luck and that's impressive germination. Nothing better than Jesus water.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> social port said:
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Yes, I like that idea. I am imagining it as an alternative to glyphosate in that it offers control but non-selectively in TTTF and KBG. I wonder what bermuda would look like after two apps of clethodim?
If I have any bermuda left next year (  ), I would consider a gly - clethodim comparison. Spot-spraying.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Nehf11 said:


> Good luck and that's impressive germination.


That _is_ impressive germination :nod:


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

@Reel Low Dad What rate did you put down the seed? 2 or 3 pounds per 1,000?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

social port said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
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I did a reno and it seems most of the bermuda is gone but I still see some healthy runners. I think I killed 80-90% but since its still there, just a matter of time before it takes over again. I'll do the topramezone route next year. If I do a reno elsewhere (I help friends/family) with bermuda, I'd like to try clethodim. I currently use it in flower beds and it takes about 1 month to see results but it works. I don't have bermuda in my flower beds at the moment though.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> social port said:
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What are you adding to the clethodim? NIS? AMS?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

social port said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
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Yup. NIS and AMS. I use grassout max. Bottom of pg. 37. The rates are under the ornamental/perennial grass section. I mix at the 16floz/A rate. Though spot spraying, who knows how accurate it really is. I leave it in a small spray bottle and spot as needed. Definitely more of a problem after I overseed. I have lots of flower beds.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@Suburban Jungle Life :thumbup: 
I just noticed that clethodim is in group 1, along with fluazifop and fenoxaprop. This is making a lot of sense now. Clethodim was just totally off of my radar.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

social port said:


> @Suburban Jungle Life :thumbup:
> I just noticed that clethodim is in group 1, along with fluazifop and fenoxaprop. This is making a lot of sense now. Clethodim was just totally off of my radar.


I tried to put everything in the herbicide guide. Well, stuff labelled for turf. I made an exception for clethodim and sethoxydim since they are related to an overseed or managing creeping varieties along borders. I wonder whether clethodim or sethoxydim is better to kill bermuda.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> social port said:
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I can't even speculate. Greendoc might know. Though, FWIW, I seem to remember him indicating a preference for fusilade or soul stealer (or some variation of) for completely killing bermuda.


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

@Nehf11 Since my seed was coated I went a tad heavier at 4 lbs/M with the KBG and and did just under a pound/M with the RPR.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

@Reel Low Dad What is your watering cycle like right now? You may have inspired me to start this weekend as well lol.


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

Nehf11 said:


> @Reel Low Dad What is your watering cycle like right now? You may have inspired me to start this weekend as well lol.


Currently watering it 4 times a day on the timer. Across 4 zones. Only watering for 6 minutes a zone right now. All the rain we received over the weekend helped tremendously. I will probably manually trigger the sprinkler once in the evenings over the next few days as we climb back in the 90's.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

@Reel Low Dad I think it's going down this monday for me. I can't let you get too far ahead of me lol


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## Alias-Doe (Aug 9, 2019)

Reel Low Dad said:


> Nehf11 said:
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> > @Reel Low Dad What is your watering cycle like right now? You may have inspired me to start this weekend as well lol.
> ...


Any of that Bermuda coming back with all the watering ? I have a similar renovation in progress right now .


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

@Alias-Doe Surprisingly not. I did two apps, of what I guess was equal to soul stealer. Plus 2 gly only apps. I was also watering and hitting it with tons of RGS while it was dead. If some does come back, oh well. Wife wants to move anyway


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

If I seed this monday it will be the earliest I have ever seeded my yard. Anyone have any tips or things I need to be aware of...


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

Make sure you have your irrigation. Looks like the weather changed a bit and less chance of rain in the coming week. Maybe use a wetting agent at seed down, that says you can use it then to help out.


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

@Nehf11 one week in


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Looking good


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Reel Low Dad said:


> @Nehf11 one week in


that does look really good for 1 week in. I'm curious about those lines where it looks relatively bare. Tire tracks, perhaps?


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

@social port nope. No bikes here. Just my inability to use a drop spreader 😁


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

I'm thinking about watering at the following times:

5 mins per zone (4 zones)
At 8, 10, 2, and 4

Thoughts?

Just praying for no cows and kids on bikes lol


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Nehf11 said:


> I'm thinking about watering at the following times:
> 
> 5 mins per zone (4 zones)
> At 8, 10, 2, and 4
> ...


I would up your run time by at least two minutes, at least for the 10 am and 2 pm watering. 
For days with heavy dew, you might be able to skip the 8am. 
Also, @Reel Low Dad looks like he is working with a great schedule.

No cows!


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

social port said:


> Nehf11 said:
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> > I'm thinking about watering at the following times:
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Yes, very similar to my schedule. I have mine set to run for 6 minutes right now at roughly those same intervals. I did leave about 9-10 minutes between each zones start time in the event I need to up the watering length. Less to reprogram.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

I'm more worried about fungus with these temps and watering...what is the best way to avoid this?


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Nehf11 said:


> I'm more worried about fungus with these temps and watering...what is the best way to avoid this?


If your seed is coated it has fungicide in the coating. Regardless, propiconazole or azoxystrobin at seed down is not a bad idea. HGT is very fungus resistant anyway, but with young grass you can never be too sure.

Regarding your watering schedule, make sure you get an evening watering in, 6-7pm , somewhere within that time period. It can be manually done if your timer only allows so many schedules. As the sun goes down and it cools off for the evening, and with the help of morning dew, that one evening watering will keep your seed moist through the night until 10am the following day. So up to 16 hours of moist seed on a single watering, you can't beat that.

If you don't get that evening watering in, chances are the surface will dry out and stay dry through the night.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

My seed is coated. Would something like this be good or do you think I'm good since it is coated?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Scotts-DISEASEEx-Lawn-Fungicide-5-m-6/1000617387


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Nehf11 said:


> My seed is coated. Would something like this be good or do you think I'm good since it is coated?
> 
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/Scotts-DISEASEEx-Lawn-Fungicide-5-m-6/1000617387


I think given the cost of renovation in time and money, $20 for fungicide is cheap insurance. The coating will only get you so far. DiseaseEx(azoxystrobin) would definitely do the job. Bayer Fungus Control (propiconazole) would work great as well. I would apply another dose about 3-4 weeks post-seeding.


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

@Nehf11 i have not seen anything in mine so far. If you want help tomorrow let me know. I will film it. 😁


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Well I made a game time decision and went for it. I went with 30 lbs per 1,000 sqft (10k Reno). On friday I put down RGS, humic 12, and Aer8. Today I put down next starter fert (9-0-1). Right now, i have my rachio set for 10, 12, 2, 4, and 6. I will keep an eye on it and adjust as i go. #NoCowsAndNoBikes


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

30 LBS or 3LBS?


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Sorry 3 per 1,000...30 pounds total.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

@Reel Low Dad how is your HGT doing in this heat? Also, it wasnt until after I did the seeding when I saw your message. My bad!


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

The KBG is germinating well. The rye germinated exceptionally well. Kinda wish I waited a week of so to put it down but oh well. My missed runs with the drop spreading the rye are filling in with KBG seedlings. I re arranged one zone of sprinklers last night for better coverage. We will see how that goes today when I get home.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Great! My watering is going great and I think I've got it dialed in pretty well after 2 days. I'm hoping to have germination by the end of the weekend.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

5 days germination!


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

You're not a real lawn fanatic until you go out in the dead of night with a flashlight to check for sprouts.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Noticed a couple of large mushrooms forming...anything worry about? Any suggestions? Thank you


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Nehf11 said:


> Noticed a couple of large mushrooms forming...anything worry about? Any suggestions? Thank you


I'm not a soil expert, but AFAIK, mushrooms aren't a sign of anything troubling. I see them frequently during July and August. The only negative effect I've observed is that they mess up the uniform look a little bit.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Day 10. @Reel Low Dad how's your Reno looking?


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Day 16 - Some areas are taking their time. The areas that look bare have grass that has germinated but hasn't taken off yet. Do you think I should put some more seed down or just wait it out and see how it fills in over the next 2 weeks.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Kind of hard to tell from the pic it might need a little more speed but honestly but next Spring it might fill in on it's own.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

@ksturfguy I went out last night with a flash light and there is seed growing in the dark areas but it is a little thinner in those areas and the grass height is a little short there. I'm wanting to start spoon feeding it nitrogen...Is it to earlier to start doing that? Or should I wait until week 5.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

I don't think you need to wait until Week 5, I can't remember if you put any starter fert down or not but you can probably start spoon feeding any day. Maybe wait until 3 week mark.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

In my experience nitrogen will not really do anything until it exits the pout stage. It won't hurt, but it won't help either. It will just pout for a while no matter how much N you throw at it.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Ok thank you. How long did it last for you until your hgt blend took off?


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

4-5 weeks depending on conditions. It's nerve wrecking, it just sits there and does nothing for a while.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Will this work for spoon feeding...
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hyponex-40-lb-All-Purpose-Fertilizer-10-10-10-523902/202968725


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

If you need P and K, then it will work.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

@g-man what about spoon feeding milorganite?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You cant really spoon feed an uncontrolled released product.


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## kasberjr1 (Jun 5, 2019)

Nehf11 said:


> Currently working a renovation from Bermuda to HGT bluegrass. The attached photo is from yesterday from a glyphosate treatment done on July 28th. I know bermuda needs multiple applications of glyphosate to ensure you get as much as you can. My question is should I go ahead and scalp the yard and water for a week or 2 and see if anything comes back and then spray or what recommendations do you have?
> 
> Thank you


Kinda on topic...I am in Nashville, TN currently doing a renovation with TurfBlue HGT as well. Thanks for posting this as I am interested to see how your reno does in the heat. My seed will be going down the week of Sept 30th so I am a little behind you. I am subscribing to this thread and if you care to check out my reno, I am documenting it in the Journal section

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=13438


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

kasberjr1 said:


> Nehf11 said:
> 
> 
> > Currently working a renovation from Bermuda to HGT bluegrass. The attached photo is from yesterday from a glyphosate treatment done on July 28th. I know bermuda needs multiple applications of glyphosate to ensure you get as much as you can. My question is should I go ahead and scalp the yard and water for a week or 2 and see if anything comes back and then spray or what recommendations do you have?
> ...


Sweet! This is my first time growing KBG and right now I'm on day 21. So far this blend has performed very well even during this heat wave we have had over the last 3 weeks. I'm used to the rye overseeding Bermuda where everything was looking good after 2 weeks so this sprout and pout phase is testing my patience lol. This photo was from this morning. I put some milo down last night.


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## Alias-Doe (Aug 9, 2019)

Nehf11 said:


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You gonna come home one day and be wowed . That's when you'll know sprout-pout is finally at the finish line .


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

I hope so...I seem to check on it every 5 mins like something is going to change lol.


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## Alias-Doe (Aug 9, 2019)

Nehf11 said:


> I hope so...I seem to check on it every 5 mins like something is going to change lol.


Lol yeah that doesn't help but Either way you're gonna notice it . It's a drastic change that happens almost overnight. Hows your watering going ? I think on my reno the overwatering slowed down growth and prolonged the sprout and pout a bit . The areas I seeded 8/25 didn't finish sprout and pout until yesterday/today . It took 30 days .


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

I think you are right about the watering. What does your watering schedule look like now? I'm about to back it off to 6 am, 2 pm, and 4 pm. Since it is still hot.


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## Alias-Doe (Aug 9, 2019)

Nehf11 said:


> I think you are right about the watering. What does your watering schedule look like now? I'm about to back it off to 6 am, 2 pm, and 4 pm. Since it is still hot.


I had signs of overwatering like yellowing and wilting which doesn't look like you have any . Last few days I've only been watering once in the morning but longer duration than usual . Today I didn't water at all . Checking the soil with a screw driver can help you figure out the watering needs .


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Things are starting to take off on my Reno but I'm starting to get a lot of this...what should I do? Wait until next spring to deal with it or can I spray tenacity?


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

You can hand pick it if you want, Tenacity says to wait until 4 weeks after germination to apply to new grass. I think your getting close to that point maybe a week or so early.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Ok, that's what I thought. They are tough to pull out with pulling the new grass so I decided to stop lol. Thank you


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## Alias-Doe (Aug 9, 2019)

Nehf11 said:


> Ok, that's what I thought. They are tough to pull out with pulling the new grass so I decided to stop lol. Thank you


It's probably the easiest weed I've ever pulled once it's mature . You can get the whole plant radius in one swipe with two fingers.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Yes I agree, but It pulls out my bluegrass as well. So I'm going to wait


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Is this looking good for day 28?


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Looks fine. Cut back on water if you haven't already - once a day should do it - and add some fertilizer. It should come out of pout stage soon. A dose of propiconazole wouldn't hurt either.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

I have milo and disease ex down within the last week. Currently, it is 93 here and I'm running the sprinklers at 6am, 2pm, and 4pm. You think I should get rid of the 2 and 4 pm and water longer in the morning?


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## Alias-Doe (Aug 9, 2019)

I've been doing deeper sessions at 10am and 4pm . Give it a chance to breath .


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Alias-Doe said:


> I've been doing deeper sessions at 10am and 4pm . Give it a chance to breath .


How many mins per zone?


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## Alias-Doe (Aug 9, 2019)

Nehf11 said:


> Alias-Doe said:
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> > I've been doing deeper sessions at 10am and 4pm . Give it a chance to breath .
> ...


Ever since my watering problems started I've been manually watering because I can put down more water in less time with more accuracy . It's hard to overwater with 10am session because you'll have sun hitting it for hours before the next watering. The 4pm session I go easy to try and give it enough time to dry before nightfall . Those cheap moisture readers help with figuring out where you're soil is at . Don't let the dry looking surface fool you . I've had "highly wet" readings on soil that's completely dry on the surface . At the stage we're at right now it's better to underwater than overwater .


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## Alias-Doe (Aug 9, 2019)

Ever since my watering problems started I've been manually watering because I can put down more water in less time with more accuracy . It's hard to overwater with 10am session because you'll have sun hitting it for hours before the next watering. The 4pm session I go easy to try and give it enough time to dry before nightfall . Those cheap moisture readers help with figuring out where the soil is at . Don't let the dry looking surface fool you . I've had "highly wet" readings on soil that's completely dry on the surface . At the stage we're at right now it's better to underwater than overwater .


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Copy that! Thank you


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Day 30 - Should I add any more seed or is everything looking about right?


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

I think it's fine. Here's mine after first mow, ~30 days.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Here is day 36. Question: I put down milo at about .75 lbs of N 2.5 weeks ago can I go ahead and start spoon feeding Urea (46-0-0)? If so, what rate 0.25 lbs per 1,000 sq ft? Also, I added some more seed last night to some of the areas that are a little thin and struggling a bit.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

That looks really good. 0.25 per week is fine, you could even go higher, say 0.4. Baby bluegrass is nitrogen hungry.

Cut back the water to once a day if you haven't already. Maybe even every other day.


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## Alias-Doe (Aug 9, 2019)

Nehf11 said:


> Here is day 36. Question: I put down milo at about .75 lbs of N 2.5 weeks ago can I go ahead and start spoon feeding Urea (46-0-0)? If so, what rate 0.25 lbs per 1,000 sq ft? Also, I added some more seed last night to some of the areas that are a little thin and struggling a bit.


That's great coverage man . It'll thicken up next spring . Don't look like you got much weeds ?


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Alias-Doe said:


> That's great coverage man . It'll thicken up next spring . Don't look like you got much weeds ?


It will probably thicken up this year being he's in TN. I mowed every 2 weeks straight through winter one year.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

Great! I hope I'm mowing at Christmas lol. I do have some broad leaf weeds and a little goose grass. Nothing I'm too worried about right now.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

End of May HGT Bluegrass Reno.


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## kasberjr1 (Jun 5, 2019)

@Nehf11 what height you currently cutting at?


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

@kasberjr1 2.5"


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## kasberjr1 (Jun 5, 2019)

Nehf11 said:


> @kasberjr1 2.5"


Looks fantastic! :thumbup:


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Looks beautiful, very well done.


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

@kasberjr1 @j4c11 Thank you both! I'm very pleased with it. Now it is time to see how it does through the summer.


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

@Nehf11 Happy 4th. How's the lawn?


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## Nehf11 (Jun 25, 2019)

@Captquin It is doing great. I can see where some of the other varieties in the mix have started to die off but there is definitely a variety (Barvette) that is taking off. Right now I'm cutting at 3.5" and watering 3 times a week.


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

Good to hear. Mine got nailed by a fungus this year (its first summer). Thinking I will still go back with it this fall and try to the other part of the yard as well.


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