# Howard Johnson's T-Methyl Granular Fungicide



## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

Hey everyone -

It appears that I have leaf spot and I have tried Scott's Disease EX with Azoxystrobin and Lesco Spectator with Propiconzale and I haven't see any relief from those applications. It seems to be getting worse...

I went with Howard Johnson's granular T-Methyl for my next application early tomorrow morning. Cleary's 3336 was recommended, however, HJ T-Methyl was a little cheaper with the same AI (lower % though).

https://www.reedandperrine.com/new/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/t-methyl-g-label.pdf

Now to my question, the T-Methyl says on the label for residential to use 3#/1k sf per treatment and everyone else would be 6-9#/1k sf. I'd like to stick to the label of course but would this really not work if I went with such a low dose? I have a 30# bag and if it was a "golf course" it would take 54# to "cure" my disease base on the recommenced 9#/1k sf for leaf spot. I don't plan on buying another bag for $60 but really just wanted some insight on the label's 18# recommendation for my application vs. me putting down the entire 30# bag. I have 6k sf of total TTTF turf.

Thanks for any insight. :thumbup: 
LD


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

If you are targeting leaf spot, T-Methyl might not help control it per Fungicide Guide.



> Fungus in red generally has excellent control, green has good control, blue is ok control, and black is unknown regarding efficacy.


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

ericgautier said:


> If you are targeting leaf spot, T-Methyl might not help control it per Fungicide Guide.
> 
> 
> 
> > Fungus in red generally has excellent control, green has good control, blue is ok control, and black is unknown regarding efficacy.


I understand, but unfortunately I think it's becoming a little resistant to Azoxystrobin and Propiconazole didn't do anything with my last application (42%). I think I need to mix it up. I do like that guide though.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Lawndad said:


> Hey everyone -
> 
> It appears that I have leaf spot and I have tried Scott's Disease EX with Azoxystrobin and Lesco Spectator with Propiconzale and I haven't see any relief from those applications. It seems to be getting worse...
> 
> ...


Gray leaf spot and leaf spot are two different things. Tmethyl is recommended for gray leaf spot but how do you know you have it? We are still a little early for obvious outbreaks of GLS. Do you want to post some pics? Better yet, if you suspect GLS then I would get a sample to your state's turf pathology lab asap.


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

tgreen said:


> Lawndad said:
> 
> 
> > Hey everyone -
> ...


Here are a few pics. The lab takes a bit by the time I send it for $60+ it will be Fall. See what you think. Thanks.

Edit: I was lookin' again at the fungicide guide. I have been using Scott's Disease Ex, and an "over the counter" Propiconazole liquid followed by Spectator liquid. Even if it's GLS or LS i was thinking to rotate T-Methyl in there. Sometimes I feel even if they are labeled for high or low efficacy they can still work well in different lawns across the US. I dunno though just my thoughts. I came to this thought as I have been using good AI's (Azoxystrobin/Propiconazole) as "preventatives" and now have GLS or LS with ising high and medium rated fungicides. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I don't think you should use azoxy at preventive rate if you are having an issue. I don't see a big issue with your yard. It is normal to have some blades die.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

That does not look like gray leaf spot to me. Your turf looks good overall.


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

g-man said:


> I don't think you should use azoxy at preventive rate if you are having an issue. I don't see a big issue with your yard. It is normal to have some blades die.


I agree but what are those lesions and discoloring on the many blades mixed in?


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

tgreen said:


> That does not look like gray leaf spot to me. Your turf looks good overall.


What do you think the lesions are? Disease at all? Should I then use the T-Methyl as a preventative app. then?


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Lawndad said:


> tgreen said:
> 
> 
> > That does not look like gray leaf spot to me. Your turf looks good overall.
> ...


It's nearly impossible to say anything definitively. If you want to know for sure then you need to send it to a turf pathology lab. It's not that hard to do. You're in NJ so look on the Rutgers website for the forms/ process.

A couple things 1) you list your species type as tall fescue but I can also see kentucky bluegrass. The fact that both show yellowing could simply be iron chlorosis from wet weather. I think you are making too big a deal out of it. 2) tell us when and at what rates you ran the azoxystrobin, how many times did you run it, e.g., may 30, june 30, etc.?

Tmethyl is not a particularly effective chemistry on many diseases other than gray leaf spot. Gray leaf spot is not particularly common on tall fescue so unless you have some prior history I don't know anyone that would recommend treating on a preventative basis. If you were to treat preventatively, you would start around August 1.


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

tgreen said:


> Lawndad said:
> 
> 
> > tgreen said:
> ...


I took a closer look at the lesions that I have along with the NC State Extension Turf Files and I'm 99% sure it's GLS. Take a look at my photo from today and their photos from their site. As for the Rutgers lab, I honestly didn't think my time and money was worth it when I sent a sample to them before. The "scientist" wasn't that helpful and couldn't tell me what the yellowing was with a sample in hand. I included a handful of good photos with the sample too. I probably will never use them again unless my entire lawn was on its death bed. I hope I don't offend anyone with my opinion of the the lab but that was just my experience.





Here has been my fungicide program this season so far. I really have only been using Azoxytstrobin and Propiconicale at the "curative rates" once I saw disease present. 7-4-19 was at a "preventive rate" as I didn't see that much and wanted to back off. I saw that I overlooked spots and saw disease, therefore, I went with Spectator at the "curative rate".

5-6-19- 2+ bags of Scotts Ex Fungicide 24# total AI is Azoxystrobin.
5-16-19 - 2 bottles 64oz (5,000 sq. ft.) of Blag Flag Lawn Insecticide Plus Fungus Control. AI is propiconizole 1.45%
6-9-19 - 2+ bags of Scotts Ex Fungicide 24# total.
6-24-19 - I sprayed 3oz (.50/1k sf) of Lesco Spectator Fungicide. AI is propiconzole 41%
7-4-19 - 1+ bags of Scotts Ex Fungicide 12# total.
7-9-19- I sprayed 4oz (.67/1k sf) of Lesco Spectator Fungicide.

I have TTTF that was sodded when I built in 2010 and it was 10% KBG mixed in the sod.

Hope that helps and you can offer more insight into my fungicide rotation. Thanks!


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Gray leaf spot on tall fescue is 1) not common, 2) usually not destructive on a stand that is 2+ years old, 3) usually coincides with unusually hot Falls like late August and September and 4) usually is not observed until September. See my video below if you want to see what GLS looks like.

For your rotation, you technically can't apply another round of azoxystrobin as you know. A couple suggestions 1) next year see if you can hold out a little later than May 6 for the first app. 2) I would just go with the full curative rate 3X since that gets you 28 days. 3) you can use a granular product called Strobe that combines azoxystrobin + propiconazole if you really feel the need to run propiconazole, otherwise I would just drop the propy from your rotation as it is not effective on brown patch. 4) If you do the above, you can get yourself into mid August before the last round of azoxy runs out. By that point brown patch is not typically active and you are also very close to the overseed window in late august and can repair any damage.

As far as this year, you can run the tmethyl to 'say' you rotated but it's not an effective chemical. You might try a product called Velista that I just ran a few days ago and seems to be holding off massive brown patch that is raging in our area right now. The velista would need to be sprayed and will cost you around $300 for the bottle.


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

tgreen said:


> Gray leaf spot on tall fescue is 1) not common, 2) usually not destructive on a stand that is 2+ years old, 3) usually coincides with unusually hot Falls like late August and September and 4) usually is not observed until September. See my video below if you want to see what GLS looks like.
> 
> For your rotation, you technically can't apply another round of azoxystrobin as you know. A couple suggestions 1) next year see if you can hold out a little later than May 6 for the first app. 2) I would just go with the full curative rate 3X since that gets you 28 days. 3) you can use a granular product called Strobe that combines azoxystrobin + propiconazole if you really feel the need to run propiconazole, otherwise I would just drop the propy from your rotation as it is not effective on brown patch. 4) If you do the above, you can get yourself into mid August before the last round of azoxy runs out. By that point brown patch is not typically active and you are also very close to the overseed window in late august and can repair any damage.
> 
> As far as this year, you can run the tmethyl to 'say' you rotated but it's not an effective chemical. You might try a product called Velista that I just ran a few days ago and seems to be holding off massive brown patch that is raging in our area right now. The velista would need to be sprayed and will cost you around $300 for the bottle.


I definitely pick up what you're putting down, however, looking at my most recent lesions they really look like GLS. Do you agree? Let's throw out what the textbooks say for a second because as we know they are guidelines and not definitive. The textbooks say Azoxystrobin is the best but, honestly I don't see amazing results from it. Could it be because it's not liquid- yeah sure but either way it's the same AI as the "professional" products. I appreciate the insight into Velista but $300/bottle isn't in my price range... Like you said next year I'll adjust my program and see if I get any better results.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Another approach is to apply the Tmethyl at curative rate and observe the response. If it doesn't improve (improvement meaning it stops getting worse - fungicides won't fix what's already damaged) you then know 1) likely not GLS and 2) whatever it is, Tmethyl not effective on it. A lot of folks don't like that approach because it's not necessarily going to help with the immediate problem and could theoretically even make it worse, but short of the path lab like @tgreen says, no way to know for sure what it is.

As another thought, yes, seems possible the azoxy wasn't effective being granular. From what I've been reading, systemic fungicides aren't as systemic as we might hope. We've known forever that azoxy only travels up, but apparently the systemics also only travel a very limited amount, no where near all the way up. Good coverage can be as important as good product. Maybe try spraying next year.


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

Delmarva Keith said:


> Another approach is to apply the Tmethyl at curative rate and observe the response. If it doesn't improve (improvement meaning it stops getting worse - fungicides won't fix what's already damaged) you then know 1) likely not GLS and 2) whatever it is, Tmethyl not effective on it. A lot of folks don't like that approach because it's not necessarily going to help with the immediate problem and could theoretically even make it worse, but short of the path lab like @tgreen says, no way to know for sure what it is.
> 
> As another thought, yes, seems possible the azoxy wasn't effective being granular. From what I've been reading, systemic fungicides aren't as systemic as we might hope. We've known forever that azoxy only travels up, but apparently the systemics also only travel a very limited amount, no where near all the way up. Good coverage can be as important as good product. Maybe try spraying next year.


Hey Keith, this morning I went out to apply the T-Methyl but my original question about the rate wasn't addressed yet so I called the company. It says on the label the max rate for residential use by the EPA is 3#/1k sf per application. I contacted the company and they advised to stick to the label, however, he said it was my product and I could apply it how I wished within reason. I explained that if the label said to apply the product at 9#/1k sf for a "curative rate" at a golf course and I am 5 miles down the street with the same issue it says to apply it at 3#/1k sf which makes no sense for it to work. Anyway, I chose to use a middle ground and applied it at 5#/1k sf based on Howard Johnson's recommendation and yours to kind of test it out. Thanks for the input.

Moving on, I went outside only to notice new and different disease in the lawn. I always find making an ID my biggest challenge. It appears to have a Dollar Spot pattern but the lesions don't have that textbook look. Take a peek at my latest photos below.











The baffling part is you would think that my last applications of Azoxytstrobin and Propiconzale should have at least "prevented" this new outbreak. If I were to send samples to the lab I would be sending them all summer long. :lol:


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Well, here's another way of looking at things. It's mid-July and for mid-July your turf looks pretty good. You'll never prevent all fungus without a golf course superintendent's budget (and often not even then). Don't really know NJ but bottom line here is keep it alive over the Summer. For looks, some years are much better than others. Nature of the beast. Do the best you can and enjoy how good it looks even if you don't see "perfect."

Your alternative would seem to be a tank mix including one of the new SDHI's and two other modes of action. Budget about $500+ per acre per app and it still might miss whatever it is.


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

Delmarva Keith said:


> Well, here's another way of looking at things. It's mid-July and for mid-July your turf looks pretty good. You'll never prevent all fungus without a golf course superintendent's budget (and often not even then). Don't really know NJ but bottom line here is keep it alive over the Summer. For looks, some years are much better than others. Nature of the beast. Do the best you can and enjoy how good it looks even if you don't see "perfect."
> 
> Your alternative would seem to be a tank mix including one of the new SDHI's and two other modes of action. Budget about $500+ per acre per app and it still might miss whatever it is.


I definitely agree. Gotta just roll with it and do the best that I can with the budget that I want to spend. Thank you and to everyone else that pitched in.


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