# San Francisco Lawn Reno



## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Looking for some advise and guidance on my lawn project. Previously RENO was a tier 1 anything green (3years ago) the lawn was seeded with an unknown "Bermuda mix" from the big box store. The first time around I ran into several issues that I would like to tackle this time.

1)Bermuda did not do well in the shaded areas and cooler mild coastal climate, so I am contemplating switching to a cool season grass type? Looking for advise on choosing the right grass types. And where to buy the seed. My goal is a perfect tier 3 lawn, with an obsessed addiction to mowing, subscribing to every YouTube channel etc....you know the drill. I want my HOC less than 1".

2)My Previous lawn had issues with being lumpy, and uneven and full of debris. Tilled before seeding last time, which resulted in uneven compaction. I would like to prevent that from happening this go around, any tips? I already tilled the lawn again, after nuking the Bermuda to remove the dead grass. Now what? Roll it? Drag it?

3)would like some recommendations on equipment that would fit my needs. Is it worth looking for a used reel mower to save money or should I buy new? Also, do u recommend having a rotary mower for backup?

My patch is a whopping 575sq/ft!!


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Here is a pic of the lawn in its current state, you can see the neighboring houses that are 2-3 stores tall and cast shade on the lawn.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

UPDATE: several apps of Glypho, water and Fert and repeat...Bermuda gone (or is it &#129300 ...

Rolled, watered, leveled, rolled again. Seeded shady mix(SS6600 shady mix). This was a tough choice because I really want a monostrand, but at the same time I want to increase my chance of success and with limited experience the benefits simply outweigh the rest.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Here are some pics of the progress. A few hiccups so far, lessons learned the hard way. Have a few spots where the seed washed out do to puddling(under fig tree). Did not get tenacity down after seeding (I decided I would save it for POST-M it because of the "fescue" seed in the mix EVEN THO it is not "fine" fescue.) Wish I would have put it down....


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)




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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Seed Down JULY 21st pic above (soil moist and peat)

1 week progress we have 1st germination, July 28:


July 31st (someone left a nice surprise) 🤢

August 2 great progress:


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

August 4th (TWO WEEK MARK). Side note: we have some kind of weed popping up, want to spray but it's too late and my new babies are too fragile. So frustrating but what can u do??


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

3 WEEK Aug 11 (very happy with progress, cut back on watering because i had some sort of mold/moss developing. Lawn is staying moist throughout the day with 2x watering at 3min plus hand water if necessary. 5am and 5 pm. Previously I was watering 4x every 6hrs for 4 min which was too much water.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

What do to about weeds? What kind of weed is this?? Tenacity says wait 4 weeks POST germination but these weeds are out of control. Will nature and the thickening grass help battle whatever this is in the meantime. Also, too soon to mow? Many spots are thickening up nicely, but I'm guessing that there are still spots with latte bloomers that may be too young still. What do you do?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Let the weeds be. Tenacity will take care of them. If you feel like walking the area, you can hand pull them.

When do you plan to mow?


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Hmmm, any recommendation? Original plan was 1st mow at the 1.5-2mo mark depending on progress. My understanding is that some of the seed Germinates faster than others, so I'm leaning towards the idea that while I have some thick spots, there is still some late bloomers that I don't to trample. Especially the KBG that I read takes longer to get going this why I had the 2mo target. I'm assuming the longer I wait the better here, pls correct me if I'm wrong (is there any debate between too soon vs too long)? Not gonna lie I am getting antsy but patience always seems to pay off!

Also, another question...if I drop some tenacity would it be more effective on the weed foliage if I give it a few days to marinate before mowing? Thoughts?

Option 1: week 6 tenacity, week 7 mow (I'm hesitant to put the chemicals down too soon, bottle recommends waiting 4 wks post germ. Is this too long?)
Option 2: week 4 mow, week 6 tenacity. I wanna hit these bigger weeds that are already actively growing with the most punch afraid that mowing the leaves off will reduce the "post-m" effect on them. Like the idea of getting 1-2 punch of PostM and PreM with one app.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

SanFranDan said:


> Option 1: week 6 tenacity, week 7 mow (I'm hesitant to put the chemicals down too soon, bottle recommends waiting 4 wks post germ. Is this too long?)


I always defer to the label, especially with products like Tenacity. 4 weeks post germ might seem like a long time, but it's on the label for a reason.

What length is your grass at now? What is your irrigation schedule currently?


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Harts said:


> SanFranDan said:
> 
> 
> > Option 1: week 6 tenacity, week 7 mow (I'm hesitant to put the chemicals down too soon, bottle recommends waiting 4 wks post germ. Is this too long?)
> ...


Yeah I'm hesitant to even go in at 4 wks because I believe there is still about 25% of the seed that was late to the germination party that may be too young still. I figure 1 wk before any germination from seed down happened (2wks for late bloomers), plus the 4 week wait per the bottle...puts me around the 6wk window for the 1st app. It's week 3 now.

There are some spots that I believe are 2.5-3" but still some thin spots that are less than 1". My gut says too soon to mow, what do you think?


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

You're on day 22. You could probably get away with mowing, trading lightly and not make hard turns.

Otherwise you could wait one more week if you feel unsure.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm getting confused with weeks. The best practice now is to count weeks from germination. Therefore you are at week 2, correct?

The recommendation from universities is to mow at around 1.5 to 2in hoc. To keep the 1/3 guideline, then when it get to 3in, you should mow. This mowing encourages the seeds to produce tillers.

If you still see areas at 1in, then wait a little bit more. Also, the day you plan to mow, cut back the irrigation just to firm up the ground. Go once with a sharp blade and avoid turns that could tear the lawn up. After the mow then irrigate.

If you are concern with tenacity, you can hand pull those weeds. Again, cut back on the irrigation and carefully walk with a bag to collect the weeds.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

@g-man, that's my bad. I was counting from seed down date. Reason being I was giving my reno a first cut around day 30ish (from seed date) with my KBG last year. I recognize the general rule for counting is from germination date and not seed.

Sorry for adding confusion.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

g-man said:


> I'm getting confused with weeks. The best practice now is to count weeks from germination. Therefore you are at week 2, correct?
> 
> The recommendation from universities is to mow at around 1.5 to 2in hoc. To keep the 1/3 guideline, then when it get to 3in, you should mow. This mowing encourages the seeds to produce tillers.
> 
> ...


Ok, appreciate the help guys. I like the idea of hand pulling the weeds, and saving the tenacity for another time. This would allow me to re-seed a few thin areas that washed out (is this even something you would consider or totally unnecessary?).

RE Mow: going to wait a few more days maybe 1 week depending on the grass. The growth has been uneven throughout the lawn and there is still 
A lot of short stuff.

Second question, should I consider any additional fert to help it grow/develop roots? I used Milo at bag rate for new lawn at time of seeding.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Here's some new pics (you can see the difference between the spots that germinated later the grass is still fairly small and thin, vs the spots that are growing thick 3"+. Also, should I be concerned with the "thin spots" or assume that it will try to fill in by itself. I don't want to be impatient and not give it a fair chance... what do you think?


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Also, you can see some red fungus growing on what I presume is the peat moss. Obviously with less water it should help, but with all the shade I get the lawn stays fairly moist I think it may be a good idea to start planning on a counter attack. Also had lots of grubs with the previous lawn but it didn't seem to affect the Bermuda lawn so I never bothered to treat it (I did have what I believe were raccoons digging them up on occasion).


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would mow it to 1.5in. The creeping fescue will fill in.

If you had grubs in the past, then you should have a preventive protection. Bermuda is more tolerant of grubs than a cools season grass.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

UPDATE (week 3): these huge weeds were getting out of control, and To the point that they would start robbing the grass of sunshine. So we took G-man's advice and hand pulled (only took about an hour). But I am so regretting not getting the tenacity down at seed. Still 1 week away before I can apply it. We have about 5-6 different weeds popping up, In about a week they should be growing a little more active and the tenacity can do the job...that's my thought. It was also time to mow, and I didn't want to chop all the foliage off of the mature "jungle" of weeds as my wife called itSo I think hand pulling was worth the effort. Check it out...


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Some thoughts about the pic about...LOL. I didn't think my Reno would look this out of control after week3. I also had an interesting dilemma with this because i really couldn't treat the weeds post germination...I couldn't spray, I couldn't trample the lawn, I couldn't mow it, all I could do it patiently wait while they grew more and more and bugged the shit out of me.

Also, the wife kids and probably dog too all thinking I'm crazy, since I've been watching lawn care videos for the past two years on YouTube every other day and then look at the picture above. Should have got the tenacity down, lesson learned. That being said, a little hard work and it already 100% better and thicker than the Bermuda that struggled to grow for 3 years with all the shade. (I did find and pull one small patch of Bermuda that came back with about a 12" stolon...Ahhhh &#128561.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Week 3 Update Cont. (1st Mow. @ 1.25"):

After pulling weeds, and before mowing...


After mowing:


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

I'm looking for a cool season guide that would best suit my "micro climate" since I am in the "tranzition zone" that will maximize my growing pleasure. The problem I have is that there can be a big difference between the micro climates within the "transition zone". For example NorCal vs SoCal vs Valley, Coastal vs Inland, etc. I can't find much in the search for other members from my area, and my local MLB stadium is a warm season turf (Bermuda). Just curious what thought you guys would have on "adapting" a cool season program to fit my mild seasons.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)




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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The highest temp was 85F? What is the 10 year historical average? Use this climate appraisal form to see how a cool season lawn will grow in your weather. Post the graph.

The after mowing looks great. Just keep daily weed removal until tenacity is safe to use. You might not need it at all.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

@g-man Do I have to subscribe and pay $250 to gain access to the website/tool you mentioned? I'm looking on my iPhone with no excel or google docs. Assuming I need to pay, is it worth it?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@SanFranDan no need to pay for anything. Can you access from a PC? Google sheets is free and their instructions explain how to do it. You can do it from the iPhone or iPad too if you install google sheet (free), but it is harder to copy/paste.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

@g-man


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Last soil test from 2018 (after an app of Milo). I added half bag of lime in Dec to neutralize the pH, then I went to nuke town....

I have another soil test ready to send in, but I figured if I only have 1 bullet I better not waste it. Thinking it will tell a more accurate diagnosis AFTER getting the new turf up and running. Nothing stopping me from buying more later, as I'm sure it won't hurt to keep tabs..


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Wow. I don't see how you could even grow Bermuda in these temps. The graph shows that even a cool season lawn might not get vigorous growth until August/September. I think perrenial ryegrass is the right choice for you.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

@g-man Yeah, Bermuda is less than ideal and somehow the one and only time I've seen it for sale was the only time I ever bought grass seed (at Home Depot). 🤦‍♂️

Oddly enough, after my struggles and researching how to grow a better lawn (obviously choosing a cool season variety/mix) I looked up what type of grass they grow in my city's MLB stadium:

"AT&T Park - Tifway 419 bermudagrass
Grown in Stockton, CA by Delta Bluegrass Company. In the past, the Giants used a Kentucky bluegrass blend called "Blue Rye" that was provided by the same company to cover their field"

Nevertheless, no question Bermuda is a bad choice, even with the resources at "Oracle Park" I notice it doesn't thrive and is often re-sodded. But I don't understand why the above graph gives me such a poor "GP" growth potential. I think the factor that's hurting me is the lack of rain (which should be irrelevant since I can irrigate the lawn). That's my guess because similar CA graphs show great GP with similar average temps. I would think my weather would be optimal because soils temps will rarely or maybe never exceed 85 degrees, and rarely if ever below 40 (and usually in 55-65 range). Also, why Ryegrass? It's actually pretty uncommon around here.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Cool season grass like 68F air temp. That's what that graph shows, how much it deviates from 68F, with 68F being 100$ GP. But this is just a model/estimation. Your lawn actual conditions (shade/sun, AM sun or PM sun) will dictate what grows best in it.

What I remember from SF is the cloudy/rain days. Not hot and not cold. So it looks like Seattle, therefore I'm extrapolating that PRG might do better. Seeding a mix might give you the best chance that the survival of the fittest will dominate.

Be careful looking at sport field with unlimited budgets. Some field do sod in the summer and then rip it out and swap it to KBG blends. I think the KC chiefs re soded their field right before the KC championship game. Also, sport fields use heat lamps and grow lights to warm it up.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

@g-man I'm on my 4th mow, grass is filling-in in some spots but still thin in others. I dropped some more seed in a couple bald spots that washed out from the original seeding, and am now seeing new germination.

I did not put down any weed control yet, just hand pulled there is some stuff piping up but nothing major YET.

I need some advise on what to put down for fert. I have not added any nitrogen since seeding, I got some 46-0-0 urea from Amazon just showed up. Not sure how much to apply and HOW to apply. Can I mix the granulars up in some water and spray? Seems like it's too small of an amount tuse my spreader?


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

I re upped water to 4x per day for 3m for the new seed I put down last week. I'm debating if I should go once every 3 or 4 days, and shoot for 1" per week. And hand water the new germination, but I'm afraid if i miss a day and it dries out that it may die.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You need to transition from 3-4 times a day to daily and then every other day...

With what you have, you should be able to do once a day by now.

@FuzzeWuzze helped with the quantity to use. If you have a way to spray it, then use it. Water the area immediately after spraying to push the urea off the leafs and into the soil.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Update: some issues I am facing, had some trouble with critters/birds digging for grubs. Minor damage hoping it will fill in and a little patch work. Also have a dead spot where the wife put down a kiddy pool last weekend, had a little heat wave. Hopefully it will green back up with some wateterimg. Just put down 2nd app of UREA @ 1/4# per 500. I was watering 1/day for 10 minutes but I'm thinking about backing down every other day or going every 3 days. Overall it looks good for less than 2 mo, and I'm getting good growth albeit slow in the spots that get little to no sun. Not sure if what to expect in these areas.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)




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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Goals going forward:

1. I want to lower HOC >3/4" (however I cannot find a reel mower in my area, without one I'm not sure it's possible) ideas ? Currently sitting at 1.25" after mowing with the rotary on lowest setting.

2. I really want to get things as healthy as possible, since I already face 2 big challenges with climate and limited shade. My 1st priority, is to maintain good lawn culture. Second priority is correcting any soil issues. Previous soil test suggest a low PH, and several micro deficiencies. HOWEVER After reading some threads on soil testing I'm going to scrap the "Soil Savy" tests and try a more trusted company. Any suggestions? Waypoint seems to be the popular choice..

3)I want to start making my plan for the upcoming Winter/Spring seasons so I can be properly prepared and put together and keep a timeline for my journal.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

@g-man I'm thinking about picking up a bag of PRG to overseed, maybe in the spring. Debating if I want to give this mix a full season and see what it does in the spring W/O the PRG, and wait until fall or if I should put it down sooner. The fine fescues grow very well in the shady area, but I notice that it's very sensitive to foot traffic, heat, dogs etc. the KBG obviously doesn't like the sections with no sun. Also, torn between an overseed or another nuke/Reno. I'm not too worried about the cost/time since it's less than 500ft. I think you mentioned previously that you would do the mix and see what out competes.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Day 60 Update:



We're getting heat waves every week it's been in the 90s for a few days. The squirrels are tearing it up everyday so hopefully the grub killer will take care of that. Mostly hand pulling weeds, which has been manageable (there's an idea of Overseeding the holes left from the critters, and/or reseeding PRG) so I have not put down any post/pre M. Lastly, the low HOC is going to be a challenge without a proper reel mower. I bought an earthwise push reel 7 blade and even after modifying the lowest HOC is 1", and without the rear roller it's just not the same. Other than that the grass is filling in nicely and looks great for 60 days with the challenges present.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Another week another update: if it wasn't for the critters....Things would look so so good. I'm really surprised how well the grass spreads and fills in. Since backing off irrigation, the fungal activity seems to have dissipated, I also switched to 4am.

Hand pulled a lot of weeds, still on the fence about introducing some Rye grass seed and decided to hold back on putting any PreM/tenacity. I picked up an earthwise 7 blade push reel and removed the roller mowing every couple days - I can't find a reel/greens mower locally to save my
Life. In the meantime this is the lowest HOC I can get, at about 1.25". (Way higher than the advertised 1/2").

The not so good (or is it?) ....I've noticed a trend in the past 14 days since we have had a few heat waves and some high foot traffic days the finer grass what I'm assuming is the fine fescues have really struggled in hot spots next to the fense/house and had some spots where it died from heavy foot traffic. On the other hand, the thicker bladed grass which I'm hoping is either KBG/creeping fescue is starting to dominate and fill in where the other grass types struggle (especially in the sun). Or....is the Bermuda kill before I started the RENO coming back from the grave?! 😳


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

These three certainly aren't helping things  -


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

@g-man I had two questions for you, first how much N is too much in my case? I've been "broadcast spreading" 4oz by weight dry 46-0-0 urea 1x per week before irrigating. Because it's literally less than a handful volume wise and the actual granulars are about the size of "whole black peppercorns" it seems after the application I will have 1 granular per every 2-3ft of soil. I'm not sure how much ground the granulars can get to when they break down and dilute into the soil, but I figure going with the weekly spoon feedings would help reach a more uniform application in the long run. By my math I've put 1/4# per week per 1000 and a total of 1#/1000 this month. Should I continue, and how much is too much should I target 4# per year total?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You did the work in this post. Your grass should not go dormant, so you could continue with N. Per the graph, January should see the less grow. Use less nitrogen then.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Update fall 2019

Nov 18th:


Dec 9th:


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Jan 21st 2020:
10" of rainfall. Sub 50 degree temps. 49ers are going to the SuperBowl!

I have not watered since mid Oct. Soil remained moist throughout fall with mostly shade and cooling temps in Nov/Dec. No fungal issues through January, until after the recent rains.

2020 To-Do's:
-Treat for fungal issues going into spring?
-core Aerate
-overseed PRG/TTTF
-re-level(thinking sand will be a good choice for me because I have silty soil it will also increase drainage and combat fungus from the shady/moist combo. On the flip side the silty composition helps retain moisture and may help with drought tolerance). I also plan to mow low and irrigate as much as needed. 
-grub prevention


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

@g-man Top growth has pretty much halted. You mentioned that I shouldn't go Dormant so I am not sure but I think I'm experiencing some Fungus/disease issues. I do see some dead grass blades, and some blades that have "spots". I will need to get better up-close pictures to help diagnose. Also, I blanket sprayed Pradiamine in Nov. I have a section of clover creeping in from the abandoned house next door, along with an unknown grassy weed, how do you recommend treating?

Lastly, what is your thought about over seeding, aerating, and leveling in spring?



g-man said:


> You did the work in this post. Your grass should not go dormant, so you could continue with N. Per the graph, January should see the less grow. Use less nitrogen then.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)




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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Hey there, hope you don't mind if I chime in.

Interesting thread for me as it seems there are similarities in our climates. Im in west coast UK.
Lawn looks good considering the challenges you've mentioned, nice work!

The odd one out lime green grass there is poa annua, your best option on that amount is to hand pull it, maybe with a screwdriver to tease it out. Easiest when ground is moist. I have a current battle with a massive amount of it :/ Although my desirable grass growth has pretty much halted, the poa annua is still pushing and producing seed heads. Sooner you can get it out the less seeds will make it to the soil. It produces seeds at very low heights, I can see at least 3 seed producing stalks on that one plant in your picture. (I recently posted a close up of poa annua with identifying membranous ligules in my thread)

The fescues in your mix have established well and it seems to me in your latest pictures that they are responding typically to the winter weather, ie looking a little stressed with disease, going a bit brown. Close up pictures would definitely help identify, and then you could go forward with recommended options to treat if you wanted. However, I believe it will grow out come better weather and temps in the spring. You have a great amount of good grass that will respond well in the spring when it will naturally want to grow with renewed vigour. You're in good shape.

Just my thoughts anyway, best regards, Mark.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

@g-man heres a close up, what do you think is causing the discoloration here?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Grab a white paper towel and try to clean the leaf next to the clover in the first image. Is it orange/rust color?


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

@g-man yes sir...


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Rust fungus


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Edit. I haven't watered the lawn in 2+mo (the soil has remained moist from rainfall, low temps, and mostly shade). I haven't mowed in 2 weeks. This seems to have popped up after 2 weeks of constant rain/wet conditions. Anyways, looks like "rust" fungus. Should i treat this?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

If you want to get TTTF in there, probably best to do it sooner than later, before the existing grass matures and outcompete the seed. As soon as soil temps hit 50 or so, you can get a jump on that and start the process. Then again, it really depends on how long your prodiamine barrier will last. You'll have to do the overseed during a gap and use Mesotrione.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

SanFranDan said:


> Anyways, looks like "rust" fungus. Should i treat this?


On a young lawn, I would treat it. On a mature lawn, I would just risk it.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

So After a week (I had to order the funguside online) it appeared to "grow out" a little and I actually noticed some decent growth in the healthier turf. Somw areas struggled. So i applied the propiconazol and mowed low bagging the clippings. Threw down a small app of UREA. We'll see how things look in a week.

Side note, the lawn looked very good at about 2". Bringing it down more than 1/3" it definitely loss some dark color.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Some new problem areas that need attention:
1)the dog urination, what can you do? Didnt seem to be an issue when I was irrigating, I transplanted plugs into that spot and they held up nicely for a few months. I am going to try reseeding (like a tee box). Not sire if it will work...
2)clover is creeping in from the neighbors through the fence and hand pulling most of it. There is one major problem area along the fence . I wonder if the Prodiamin application will prevent it.
3)Squirrel is back &#129324;


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

The good:





The bad:


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

g-man said:


> Wow. I don't see how you could even grow Bermuda in these temps. The graph shows that even a cool season lawn might not get vigorous growth until August/September. I think perrenial ryegrass is the right choice for you.


@g-man whats the best way to introduce PRG into the existing lawn? Im assuming that would be the best method to let it compete against each other...however some concerns would be over crowding the current grass. Is that a possibility, say the grass starts to compete how do I avoid excess germination and die off(will it cause excess thatch) while at the same time guving the new PRG a chance to establish and compete with the existing lawn that had a head start? I know its probably not that complicated but I would want to avoid over doing it and wasting time and money by doing it wrong...

Current thought is to do a spring core aeration, top dress with sand, and over seed with PRG at the same time. Main concern here is if my weather will give me enough growth or if I would be better served waiting until later. I know fall would be best, but Im wondering if I can get results in the spring too. And then Have the opportunity to do it again in the fall? Really putting an emphasis/priority on getting it level as possible should I decide on a lower HOC in the future and it'll take time... thoughts?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Why do you want to overseed? Is the lawn thin?


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

@g-man 
Yes, its about 80% as thick as I would want it. Mainly just want to see what grass types grow best, but I honestly cant say its thin. For a less than 1year stand its done very well. I have noticed the the KBG has started to take over, and the fine fescue and creeping fescue seems to have died back. Secondary reason would be for "fast repairs" in spots that die from dog urin or holes left by squirrels etc.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Took samples for soil test. Also did a mason jar soil test.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Sun angle is shifting back getting about 1hour of direct sun in about 1/4 of the yard...

Before:


After:


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)




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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)




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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Feb 15th, 3# of fast acting Calcitic Lime. Weed B Gone CCO to treat clover, and some Urea tk promote weeds to grow.

Also irrigated the lawn with 1" of water. No irrigation since November.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

SanFranDan said:


> Also irrigated the lawn with 1" of water. No irrigation since November.


No irrigation or no water at all since then?

I heard that if there's no rain in the next two weeks, San Francisco will have had the driest February in 107 years.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Green said:


> SanFranDan said:
> 
> 
> > Also irrigated the lawn with 1" of water. No irrigation since November.
> ...


It hasn't rained at all this month, but we had about 9" cumulative since Nov which I believe is just below the average. Typically we get most of our rainfall in February or March. Enough to keep the soil saturated, and which the cooler temps we had in Dec it wouldn't dry out.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Is the soil moist? is the grass stress? If yes, then water it.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

g-man said:


> Is the soil moist? is the grass stress? If yes, then water it.


He watered already...on the 16th.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Well, I'm not sure how the 2020 season is starting out here in San Francisco. So far I have not stuck to the plan. I did check a few important things off the list, and also called a big audible. I found a new earthway push mower that adjusts to 1/2".

Being my preferred low HOC goals I went straight to town and scalped it on the lowest setting. Its been 1 month since the scalp and its still struggling to grow back/green up(cool season grass does not like to be scalped). basically feel like i nuked my lawn since everything looked brown. This HOC Also exposed any and all uneven spots that need to be leveled, worm castings, holes, thin spots etc.

I applied grubEx because I have found several grubs, as well as battling crows and squirrels digging holes. This is going to be an important hurdle moving forward. I cannot order 24hour grub killer online in CA, so i hope properly timed grub preventer will do the trick(tbh im not sure if a few grubs are ok and wont do major damage, but this month i had a European crane fly "hatch" from my lawn as well as damage from crows/squirrels.

I also seeded a small 6' patch of PRG/KBG test plot. This plot looks outstanding compared to the test of the scalped lawn *sigh*. I should note that the KBG seems to be coming back strong from the scalp, and there are lots of rhizomes spreading etc. the fine fescue not so much...

Good news is there are no weeds, the PreM I put down in Nov seems to be working great (too bad the overseed inout down in thin spots didn't germinate). I will be planning a fall overseed/reno depending on how thin the lawn looks after spring/summer.


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)




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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

@g-man If I want to over seed this fall should I skip putting down a spring PreM? I cant tell how much damage scalping the lawn caused and how much will grow back vs die. Im sure there is enough there that it will grow and fill in with enough water and fert. What would you do?


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Btw, there is a forsythia tree in the neighbors yard right behind the fence in the corner of my yard. It bloomed in Feb lol probably too late for a spring PreM


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## SanFranDan (Apr 15, 2019)

Man I bet it would look great right now at 2" HOC, what was I thinking???


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Feed the lawn some N and don't scalp unless you have Bermuda.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Try babying the lawn for awhile by spoonfeeding the N, like you would a reno. Try AS or urea dissolved and sprayed. If that's not available, try one of the popular liquids you can order online and go lightly once a week or so until it recovers. Also, you could do light, frequent apps of Milo, starting with a liquid app.


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