# What is going on here? Poa T?



## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

So I put down Tenacity about a week ago. I figured I'd get some whitening since i have some fine fescue scattered around, but whats going on with these patches? I dont have FF in this areas. The grass also hasn't stood up since Ida. Do I have a bentgrass invasion I wasn't aware of?


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## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

Here's a pic closer up.


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## JimmyD35 (Dec 2, 2020)

Tenacity bleaching the green from your grass. It'll come back.


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## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

Reviving this. Some of the grass that was bleached is recovering. And some of it is dying. I am still suspicious that this is a warm season grass that the tenacity is killing.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

What rate did you use?


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## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

@Harts Rate was 6oz/Acre. I wound up with a little extra and went to town on the weed farm behind my shed.

My grass on my front yard looks fine. Side yard the only thing really lit up is some japanese stiltgrass. But then in the back I have this matted down stuff which is dead/dying.


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## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

More pics. The matted down dead area pulled up pretty easily.

I think its safe to say I won't have much seed germinating in these areas regardless of whats going on.


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## Factor (Oct 10, 2019)

jedross86 said:


> @Harts Rate was 6oz/Acre. I wound up with a little extra and went to town on the weed farm behind my shed.
> 
> My grass on my front yard looks fine. Side yard the only thing really lit up is some japanese stiltgrass. But then in the back I have this matted down stuff which is dead/dying.


So you show you have 10000 sq'. So how much product did you use and how much water? Was the front and back sprayed on the same mixture same day?

Based on how it looks I would say you had some other grass you didn't "know about" in you yard. Maybe sometime in the past someone put down a store blend that had fine fescue, chewing red, prg, or creeping fescue (6 oz per acer is too high). Maybe some Bent grass in there.

Based on the solid clumps of green surrounded by the whited out grass.

In about 14 to 28 days you will fo sure know the good the bad and the ugly..


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## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

I used 0.18oz/1k in 1 gallon of water. I used different applications for all 3 sections of my yard but same method, and all the same day. Agitated with my drill/paint mixer attachment.

I know I have some fine fescues in my yard, but the grass blades in these areas look way too thick to be a FF. These areas also did fine in the hottest/driest parts of the summer, and I was not irrigating.

Now, this area of my yard is one of the flatter areas, but by no means the lowest. After Ida the grass here seemed to lay down and never bounce back up; even after it dried out and I mowed. I don't see any fungus issues, but I'm no expert. The lower areas, where I would have expected more sogginess, are actually doing just fine.

Looking at it, I keep thinking its creeping bentgrass. Although, I heard that CG will check out similar to FF in heat and draught.


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## Jersey_diy (Sep 5, 2020)

does it pull up easily? looks a lot like my poa triv after I hit it hard with tenacity


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## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

It does pull up easy. This area of my yard gets about the most sun as anywhere. I thought Triv checked out in the hot weather and usually grew best in shady areas. Also, it grows slower than the rest of my lawn. So, never considered this might be Triv.


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

Jersey_diy said:


> does it pull up easily? looks a lot like my poa triv after I hit it hard with tenacity


I agree with this. It will probably survive from Tenacity. At least down here, Triv is really hard to spot in the summer, if not impossible with it going dormant. Once it cools down, hit it with iron and if it stays bright green when the rest of the grass darkens up, get out the glypho. :bandit:

Keep the fert off those spots in the interim by selectively spraying around them, or it will exacerbate spreading.


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## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

Say it isn't so! If this is triv, it seems to be growing in the least likely place in my lawn, and it did not look any worse for wear until Tenacity/Ida washout, which were separated by about 3 days. It also didn't outgrow the rest of my grass.


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## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

Also, thinking more about this, I didn't get seed heads in this part of my lawn at all this year (I did in other parts, but pretty certain it was *** & PRG - areas are dark green in color now). Not doubting the advice I'm getting here, just in shock that this could be triv all things considered. If it is, I guess I'll be re-renoing this area this Spring.


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## Jersey_diy (Sep 5, 2020)

to be honest it looks like a lot of poa triv...if you can a full reno might be in order...but you would need to glypho tomorrow and seed PRG...not a lot of time left in the season


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

Look out for grubs. If grass pulls easily use a spade shovel and cut that area open to see if their grubs in those areas. Normally a pull test can indicate that.


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## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

Thanks! Anyone else have any ideas before I consider nuking? This is what I have observed:

* I sprayed tenacity at 6oz/acre 2 weeks ago. Azoxy the day before.
* Ida struck and we got half a foot of rain in a couple hours. 
* I noticed some bleaching from the tenacity, more pronounced in the area in the pictures above, about a week ago
* I noticed some grass dying off, specifically in this area, also a week ago
* The grass in question is lighter green than the rest of my lawn
* The grass pulls up quite easily in the dead areas, bleached only areas not so much
* I have made no grub applications all year
* I have not applied nitrogen since the spring. Only fert apps have been SOP
* The grass in question did better (less stressed looking) than the rest of the lawn - even in the hottest part of the summer when we had no rain (and I did not irrigate)
* The grass in question grew lower than the rest of the lawn
* The grass in question is in full sun and in the flattest area of my lawn
* The grass blades are fairly thin. I have some grassy weeds (maybe johnsongrass) with much wider blades. 
* There were no seedheads observed at any point in the year. I had seedheads in other areas.

Given all of the above, I'm still a bit resistant to believing this is triv. Could it be fungus (ground drenched from Ida) or just decay from being drenched? Grubs? Or another grassy weed like creeping bentgrass? It's tough for me to pull the trigger as if this were triv without some more convincing.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

Be sure to take a spade edger or shovel and dig a 10" square around that area to check for grubs. That would be first thing you should check for. The good thing is that you can always use peat moss and overseed and water the area and it will come back. Grass is resiliant.


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## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

Reviving this after a month. These areas have bounced back and are growing. The color is a lighter green than other areas. I have put down 0.5lbs of N/k over the last 2 weeks. Poa T? Or is this a lousy old cool season cultivar? For reference the darker green area right in front of the side is completely new grass. The "bleached" looking areas to the back left are just foot prints.

And yes I know I need to mow. Was out of town for a couple days and the lawns been too wet to mow.


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## cleohioturf (Jul 20, 2020)

i think you have bent in there. surely some poa, but in general looks like a big mix.

sometimes newer grass is lighter green than mature strands. I would see how this comes in during the spring and make an assessment on what you want to do. If you are dead set on uniform color, you need to go fewer types and fewer cultivars.


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## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

I knew I would have to deal with non-uniform color since the existing lawn was old, and I wasn't given permission to kill it all and start over from the wife until the day before I planned for seed down :lol:. But, I did not realize I was dealing with poa, bent, etc. If it's Poa A and Bent I can treat, knowing the lawn will lack a uniform look. Trying to determine if this is largely a Poa T problem so I can cope with having to kill this all next Spring and not have a lawn for half a year.


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

I think the easiest way to identify the difference between triv and annua is the stoloniferous growth pattern of triv. Bentgrass has the same, but your tenacity apps (if done right) should have knocked it out.

https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ay/ay-41-w.pdf

https://turf.purdue.edu/poa-annua-poa-trivialis-and-or-creeping-bentgrass-in-lawns-and-sports-fields/


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## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

Let a little bit of it grow:



Any further thoughts?


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## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

Also seeing a pronounced vein down the middle, which I think Triv does not have?


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## Grassyknoll (Oct 27, 2021)

Looks like bent to me.


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## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

I think you're right. I do see a couple brighter green spots in my lawn that is probably Poa. This stuff is just different, ligher in color but not lime.

Any advice on killing? Would it be a bad idea to try to kill it with tenacity over the next month if its widespread? My concern would be erosion.


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