# Watering Using A Well



## jaygrizzle (Jun 6, 2018)

I have a well with a depth of 520 feet. I put down 5,000+ sq feet of sod this summer and planted nearly 10,000 sq feet of grass this fall. I still have between 5,000 - 10,000 sq feet of lawn that needs to be planted next year.

I have been watering the sod as recommended throughout the summer and watering the planted grass. However, it just kind of dawned on me that I may be decreasing the life of my well.

How concerned should I be with using my well to irrigate the yard? I've invested a good amount of $ with the sod and grass seed as well as spent a lot of time, so I'd like to continue to water it next year as needed. However, if it is going to make a big impact on how long my well will last, I'll have to potentially re think.


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## BobLovesGrass (Jun 13, 2020)

My 42yo house has a 40foot well pump at 35ft, water at 15.
Pump is best I know original, previous owner owned since '87 and gave me records on everything.
I jave watered a lot of grass and filled a 18' 52" pool several seasons and it keeps going. Have been thru a couple.few pressure tanks.


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## Wiley (Dec 2, 2019)

To potentially ease your concerns and answer your question you can contact a local well/drilling company and have them test the wells recovery rate. Our local water authority has this info on file for all wells drilled after a certain date but I don't know if this is common practice elsewhere?


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## jaygrizzle (Jun 6, 2018)

I probably should have mentioned that it's anew construction so the well was put in April of this year.

I actually called the company who drilled it and he said that the main cause of wear and tear on the pump is the cycling. I probably should have asked better questions, but from what I got from it, I assume it's better to just run it once for an hour, rather than running it for 10 min at a time 6 different times

It was a little concerning as I bought a timer with 4 different zones and run each zone 4 times a day. So it runs 16 total times a day. But I'll probably just adjust in the future to run it for longer periods of time and just move the sprinklers around to each spot I need instead of stopping one zone and starting a different zone.


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## dicko1 (Oct 25, 2019)

You really should worry about the size of your electric bill. That pump draws an awful lot of current. You're going to get a big surprise if you do a lot of sprinkling.


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## BobLovesGrass (Jun 13, 2020)

How often you water isn't going to control the cycling. The size of the pressure tank, supplied GPM and consumed GPM are going to be what matters.
Simply is the well running steady, cycling periodically or cycling fast while the irrigation is running? If you think it is cycling too fast a larger pressure tank cn help or and while this might sound strange maybe add a head to the irrigation to increase demand keep the pump running longer between off cycles.

If you hear the pump aggressively short cycling it is usually a pressure tank issue.


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## jaygrizzle (Jun 6, 2018)

How can I tell when it cycles or if it's short cycling?

They did tell me to check the pressure in the tank once a year by turning off the breaker and the turning on a faucet until no additional water comes out. Then I'm supposed to see what PSI the tank is at.

I'm just a little out of my element here as this is my first time having a well and I know very little about them.


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## jaygrizzle (Jun 6, 2018)

I have noticed that occasionally when watching the sprinklers they will lose a little pressure for a split second and then they'll go back to normal.

I assume this may be when the well is cycling. I'll try to pay closer attention to see how often this happens while the sprinklers are on.


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## Oyster Shark (Aug 24, 2020)

Find out who manufactured the pump and contact their technical service. You need a technical data sheet on the pump or what is commonly known in the industry as a "pump curve." Without this data you are wildly guessing.

Also, get a copy of the "well report" this will tell us the depths to surface and recovery rate of the well. If the well was drilled recently this is all data you should have easy access too. It is incredibly important and will CYA in the event something goes wrong with your well.

As an aside, I do not have a pressure tank on my well for my irrigation system.


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## jaygrizzle (Jun 6, 2018)

Thanks. I guess those would both be questions for the company that installed the well?


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## BobLovesGrass (Jun 13, 2020)

To tell if it is cycling look at the pressure gauge at the tank, pump usually turn on at 40psi off at 60psi.
I can hear the pump through the water column but my well is much much shallower.


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## Oyster Shark (Aug 24, 2020)

Yes, the pump make and model would be sufficient.
The "well report" is actually a formal document that gets submitted to the state in my area.

These two pieces of information will provide you with everything you are going to want to know.


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## Kmartel (Feb 12, 2019)

As stated above you want to reduce or avoid cycling well pump. Pretty easy to do once you realize the issue.

Get more info on your well, recovery rate is important so you can try to reduce running well dry.


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## jaygrizzle (Jun 6, 2018)

Thanks all. Well report hasn't been filed with the state yet. Trying to get a hold of the company to get the pump model and manufacturer.

Here's how its set up now:





This picture was taken when no sprinklers or any other water in the house was being used. Is it okay that it's at 50psi or is it supposed to be 35?

Also, when I talked to the well company initially he said once a year to turn off the breaker to the well to check the psi. He said it should be 35psi. But when I did that it went to 0psi. I could have sworn he said that meant there was a leak and was problematic.

Thanks all for insights


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## dicko1 (Oct 25, 2019)

You should turn off the pump and open a faucet to relieve the pressure on the system. The psi on the tank should then be set to a few psi below the lower setting of your pump pressure switch. The fact that your well guy says to set it at 35psi implies that you have a standard 40-60 psi pressure switch. Looking at your pictures, its even written on your switch: 40/60.

If you get a zero reading, that implies there's either a rupture in the internal tank bladder, in which case there should be water dribbling from the air valve or the air has leaked out and needs to be recharged back to 35 psi. The pump should be short cycling like crazy too.


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## jaygrizzle (Jun 6, 2018)

How do I go about setting the psi at 35?

My pump is 420 feet below the surface so how do I know if it is short cycling?

I'm trying to figure out if that light switch to the left in the picture is the power to my pump. When I originally was going to test for a leak, I turned that switch off and then ran the faucets, but the water never stopped running. I then went to my main electrical break and there were two switches that said well so I flipped them off. Then I opened the faucet again and after a minute or so no more water came through. That's when the psi on the gauge went to zero.


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## jaygrizzle (Jun 6, 2018)

Sounds like I'm probably misunderstanding. I thought my gauge should be showing 35psi at all times. But since it's at 50psi and that's between the 40/60 that the pump isn't running at that point.

I did notice that when I had the sprinkler running directly off the well and then went to look at the tank gauge that it would go up to 60psi and then there would kind of be like a breaker sound and then the pressure would lower to 40 and the same thing would happen. I assume that this is the cycling.

The one thing I am concerned about is the tank going to zero psi when I cut the power. But I may have cut more than just the power to the pump which may have been in correct. Once I can confirm how to only cut the power to the pump I can re test by running the water and seeing if the pressure goes to 35 or if it really goes to zero.


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

The 35psi on the tank is for filling the bladder when its empty.

Your well pressure should stay between 40 and 60 at normal operation and should cycle between the two. If it goes below 40 psi when the pump is running the pumps too small.


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## jaygrizzle (Jun 6, 2018)

Appreciate it. Makes sense. Now I just need to figure out:

How to tell when the pump is running or not

How to tell when it's cycling or short cycling


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

We have a well, too, which supplies both our household water and our irrigation water. Basically, you want the irrigation system's water demand to be sized such that while the irrigation system is on, the pump runs continuously at the desired pressure, typically around 50psi, presuming a standard pressure switch which turns on at 40psi and turns off at 60psi.

The way the pressure switch works is that whenever the pressure in the system falls to 40psi, the pump will turn on. The pump will then remain on continuously until the pressure in the system increases to 60psi, at which time the pump will turn off. The pump will then remain off until the pressure falls to 40psi, at which time the pump will again turn on and the cycle repeats.

Ideally, when the irrigation system is running, the demand by the irrigation system will roughly match the pump's flow rate, and the pressure will stabilize with continuous flow at around 50psi. If the pump's flow rate is greater than the demand by the irrigation system, then the nozzle sizes in the heads in the irrigation system can be increased to allow a higher flow rate, until there is a balance between the two and the pump will run pretty much continuously while irrigating.

You can check this out by setting the irrigation timer to start in a couple minutes and then go down to the basement to look at the gauge. Initially, assuming no water is running, the gauge will read somewhere between 40psi and 60psi and the pump will be off. When the irrigation system starts, water will start flowing, with the water being delivered from what is stored in the pressure tank, and you'll see the indicated pressure dropping gradually. When it gets to 40psi, the pressure switch will trip (you may even hear it go "click" when this happens) and the pump will turn on. You'll then see the pressure gauge start to climb. It seems like your irrigation flow demand is less than the pump can deliver, so you'll see the pressure in the system steadily rise from 40psi and eventually reach 60psi. When it gets there, the pressure switch will again trip, this time to off (you might again hear a "click") and the pressure will steadily drop from 60psi to 40psi. After you see this happen a couple times so you know what to expect, time the cycle -- how long does it take for the pressure to climb from 40psi to 60psi while the pump is running? How long does it take for the pressure to drop from 60psi to 40psi when the pump is off?

Ideally, if the irrigation system demand is appropriately sized, what will actually happen isn't the above "cycling" between 40psi -> 60psi -> 40psi, with the pump going on/off/on/off every few minutes, but will instead have the pressure climb up from 40psi when the pump is running to about 50psi and then not go any higher -- the irrigation flow will be matched to the pump output, and the pump will run continuously.

Please do the timing experiment I describe above and post back with what you find.


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## jaygrizzle (Jun 6, 2018)

Thanks Ken very helpful. And thanks all for sticking with me as it probably feels like explaining something to a five year old. Haha

I was able to time the cycles as Ken recommend and it took 75 - 80 seconds after the pump turned on at 40psi until it turned off at 60psi. Then it took 100 seconds for it to go from 60psi to 40psi when it turned on again.

There didn't look to be any point where it would stabilize in the middle, I imagine it would keep cycling until I turned the water off.

The bad part is that I watered like this from early August of this year until up until a week ago or so. Hopefully I didn't do too much damage to pump having it kick on and off too much. Luckily I at least am aware of it, because I initially had no idea about the pump and was only concerned about using too much water and drying up the well.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

jaygrizzle said:


> Thanks Ken very helpful. And thanks all for sticking with me as it probably feels like explaining something to a five year old. Haha
> 
> I was able to time the cycles as Ken recommend and it took 75 - 80 seconds after the pump turned on at 40psi until it turned off at 60psi. Then it took 100 seconds for it to go from 60psi to 40psi when it turned on again.
> 
> ...


No need to apologize. Everybody has to learn somewhere, and you seem receptive to picking up new knowledge about your new well!

Thanks for timing the cycles. Just so that I understand, you had the irrigation system running, and it took 100 seconds for the pressure to fall from 60psi to 40psi?

First off, I should reassure you that you haven't done any damage to the pump by having it turn on and off in a cycle every 3 minutes (your cycle time is the sum of the pressure tank refill time during use (75-80 seconds), plus the drawdown time (100 seconds)). A cycle time of less than 30 seconds would be short cycling, but 3 minutes is well within the range of normal use. Indeed, any time you run the water for a while (such as filling a bathtub) would result in cycles of that duration.

Secondly, I just realized when reading back through your earlier posts in this thread, that you probably don't have an irrigation system, but that you're watering using a sprinkler with a timer (or maybe sprinklers with timers)? Is that right? (If you're using sprinklers and a timer, that's a bit of relief, because if you had an irrigation system installed, getting the irrigation system flow matched to the pump flow rate is something that the irrigation system installer should have designed before laying out the system, and it shouldn't be resulting in 3-minute cycles, but rather continuous flow while irrigation is in progress, or at least cycles of 15+ minutes.)

Have you considered getting an irrigation system installed? If so, you'll want to either get an installer familiar with designing irrigation systems on wells on your area, or you'll need to learn a fair bit about the topic in order to correctly design the system.

As others have mentioned, there are a few factors that need to be considered when sizing an irrigation system to match a well. Getting the pump flow rate matched to the demand of the irrigation system is just one of those factors. Considering the depth to the surface of the well, the working water volume of the well, and the recovery rate of the well are all important parameters that will need to be known to determine for how long you can irrigate continuously before needing to let the well recover. (As mentioned by @Oyster Shark those pieces of information will be submitted to the state by the installer, and should also be in the records of the installer.)

However, figuring that out is commonplace for irrigation installers in areas with wells and should be something that a qualified irrigation installer is very familiar with doing.

Or is it the case that you just want to learn if there is anything you should do to avoid unnecessary wear on your well's pump when watering the grass with a hose and sprinkler?


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## jaygrizzle (Jun 6, 2018)

ken-n-nancy said:


> jaygrizzle said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Ken very helpful. And thanks all for sticking with me as it probably feels like explaining something to a five year old. Haha
> ...


What I did today was I hooked up one hose and sprinkler directly to the well outside and ran it and then timed the cycle. Yes, correct it was around 100 seconds for it to drop from 60psi to 40psi and then round 75 - 80 seconds for it to get back to 60psi.

Good to hear that isn't short cycling and that I didn't mess anything up. I should have done more research before starting to water this summer.

Unfortunately no true irrigation system in the cards for me. Over the summer I laid 5,400sq feet of sod and then this fall I planted close to 10,000 sq feet of grass. So I had a timer directly on the well that had 4 outputs and then I put a splitter on each one so a total of 8 hoses coming off of it.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

jaygrizzle said:


> What I did today was I hooked up one hose and sprinkler directly to the well outside and ran it and then timed the cycle. ...
> 
> ... So I had a timer directly on the well that had 4 outputs and then I put a splitter on each one so a total of 8 hoses coming off of it.


When you say "directly to the well" what do you mean? The wells that I'm familiar with look like the one in the photo below, with a steel well casing, a removable well cap, and a place where the electrical wiring comes out of the well casing. There isn't any place on this type of well to connect a hose. Typically, down in the well casing, a few feet before ground level so that it is below the frost line, there is a place where the flexible pipe from the pump runs underground from the well casing into the basement of the house.

If that is how your well is set up, then this begs the question of where did you set up your hose "directly to the well outside"?












jaygrizzle said:


> Yes, correct it was around 100 seconds for it to drop from 60psi to 40psi and then round 75 - 80 seconds for it to get back to 60psi. Good to hear that isn't short cycling and that I didn't mess anything up


Excellent. Glad to reassure you that you haven't damaged anything!


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## Oyster Shark (Aug 24, 2020)

Make sure you got some check valves on the system too. The submersible pump will have one but you absolutely need one on your plumbing.


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## jaygrizzle (Jun 6, 2018)

Mine has a spigot that I can connect to


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## Newandconfused (Oct 20, 2020)

ken-n-nancy said:


> We have a well, too, which supplies both our household water and our irrigation water. Basically, you want the irrigation system's water demand to be sized such that while the irrigation system is on, the pump runs continuously at the desired pressure, typically around 50psi, presuming a standard pressure switch which turns on at 40psi and turns off at 60psi.
> 
> The way the pressure switch works is that whenever the pressure in the system falls to 40psi, the pump will turn on. The pump will then remain on continuously until the pressure in the system increases to 60psi, at which time the pump will turn off. The pump will then remain off until the pressure falls to 40psi, at which time the pump will again turn on and the cycle repeats.
> 
> ...


Just curious how many sqft are you watering with your well? We are considering doing an irrigation and trying to make an informed decision.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Newandconfused said:


> Just curious how many sqft are you watering with your well? We are considering doing an irrigation and trying to make an informed decision.


We have 12,500 sqft. Many folks have far larger lawns that are watered from a well. Some care does need to be taken when designing the system and staying within well capacity and recharge rate.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@ken-n-nancy, I've heard a lot of people say that they don't do outdoor irrigation, wash their car, etc., due to having a well. In fact, my grandparents always collected rain in one of those blue barrels in order to water their garden. In your experience, what are the factors that determine to what extent one can or cannot use outdoor water on a well? Always been curious about this.


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