# Carbon X Has Landed



## Jconnelly6b

Did everyone get their orders? Our NJ pallet arrived Tuesday afternoon. :bandit: 
M


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## pennstater2005

@Jconnelly6b How does it smell in there?!!


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## Jconnelly6b

I didn't want to harp on the smell, but since you asked.

Imagine if you had about 5 chickens living in your car for a month, and all of them were heavy smokers and they all urinated in the ash tray.


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## TN Hawkeye

Jconnelly6b said:


> I didn't want to harp on the smell, but since you asked.
> 
> Imagine if you had about 5 chickens living in your car for a month, and all of them were heavy smokers and they all urinated in the ash tray.


I can't get the image of a chain smoking chicken squatting over the ash tray out of my head. If I had any artistic ability I would draw that and make it my id photo on here.


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## g-man

Who is dropping some carbonx today?


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## Killsocket

Jconnelly6b said:


> I didn't want to harp on the smell, but since you asked.
> 
> Imagine if you had about 5 chickens living in your car for a month, and all of them were heavy smokers and they all urinated in the ash tray.


Sounds like some of the bars I frequented in my youth....


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## dfw_pilot

Man, I hope your car's shocks are okay today, haha. Enjoy the spread.


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## Alex1389

Had to leave the bags in my car this weekend while I was at my gf's place. The smell is real.


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## chrismar

There's certainly an odor, but not as bad as wet milo or OG. If you ask me the garage smells like lawn success, but if you ask the mrs she'll say "when's that nast getting out of here?!".


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## FuzzeWuzze

Got to say i was a bit skeptical, having to buy through LCN or Pete that the price would suck. I mean i'm all for supporting them but im not paying $50 for a single app of some fert on my small lawn.

LCN lists it as $65 for 18k coverage? If thats the case its a great deal at only like $9 per app for my small lawn.

But also seems like a low dose? Assuming they are 50# bags that would mean if hes listing 18k coverage your putting down slightly more than .5#N per app? So its really 9k coverage of a full rate app?

I guess for me even at $18 per app for me its still cheaper than Milo which i can only get for $16/bag.


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## ryeguy

The idea behind lacing it with humic is you need less N to get the same effect.

At $65 per 50 lb bag with 24% N that is $5.41/lb of N. Even if you don't buy into the humic making the fert more efficient, you would have to get milo for less than $10.50 a bag to beat the price per lb of N (assuming the new 32 lb 6% bags).

For people who have to buy milo at normal home depot price most of the time which is probably ~$14-15 per bag, that's a pretty good deal. And it gets shipped to you (which is included).


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## ctrav

TN Hawkeye said:


> Jconnelly6b said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to harp on the smell, but since you asked.
> 
> Imagine if you had about 5 chickens living in your car for a month, and all of them were heavy smokers and they all urinated in the ash tray.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't get the image of a chain smoking chicken squatting over the ash tray out of my head. If I had any artistic ability I would draw that and make it my id photo on here.
Click to expand...

now that's some funny stuff


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## Ware

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Got to say i was a bit skeptical, having to buy through LCN or Pete that the price would suck. I mean i'm all for supporting them but im not paying $50 for a single app of some fert on my small lawn.
> 
> LCN lists it as $65 for 18k coverage? If thats the case its a great deal at only like $9 per app for my small lawn.
> 
> But also seems like a low dose? Assuming they are 50# bags that would mean if hes listing 18k coverage your putting down slightly more than .5#N per app? So its really 9k coverage of a full rate app?
> 
> I guess for me even at $18 per app for me its still cheaper than Milo which i can only get for $16/bag.


I think most here (myself included) joined a regional group buy for a whole pallet shipped LTL. I am expecting to pay between $18-22/bag. I would probably not be willing to pay the shipping costs that are baked into that single bag price.


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## Alex1389

Ware said:


> FuzzeWuzze said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got to say i was a bit skeptical, having to buy through LCN or Pete that the price would suck. I mean i'm all for supporting them but im not paying $50 for a single app of some fert on my small lawn.
> 
> LCN lists it as $65 for 18k coverage? If thats the case its a great deal at only like $9 per app for my small lawn.
> 
> But also seems like a low dose? Assuming they are 50# bags that would mean if hes listing 18k coverage your putting down slightly more than .5#N per app? So its really 9k coverage of a full rate app?
> 
> I guess for me even at $18 per app for me its still cheaper than Milo which i can only get for $16/bag.
> 
> 
> 
> I think most here (myself included) joined a regional group buy for a whole pallet shipped LTL. I am expecting to pay between $18-22/bag. I would probably not be willing to pay the shipping costs that are baked into that single bag price.
Click to expand...

+1 on this. And I grabbed an approximately 2 year supply, so I don't need to load the SUV up with biochar again anytime soon!


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## FuzzeWuzze

Ware said:


> FuzzeWuzze said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got to say i was a bit skeptical, having to buy through LCN or Pete that the price would suck. I mean i'm all for supporting them but im not paying $50 for a single app of some fert on my small lawn.
> 
> LCN lists it as $65 for 18k coverage? If thats the case its a great deal at only like $9 per app for my small lawn.
> 
> But also seems like a low dose? Assuming they are 50# bags that would mean if hes listing 18k coverage your putting down slightly more than .5#N per app? So its really 9k coverage of a full rate app?
> 
> I guess for me even at $18 per app for me its still cheaper than Milo which i can only get for $16/bag.
> 
> 
> 
> I think most here (myself included) joined a regional group buy for a whole pallet shipped LTL. I am expecting to pay between $18-22/bag. I would probably not be willing to pay the shipping costs that are baked into that single bag price.
Click to expand...

Good to know, that would be an amazing price ill have to keep an eye open for another group buy. Problem being no one will ever do a group buy out here in the PNW lol, no one cares about their lawn out here the way the rest of you guys do. Even at $65 a bag shipped its still way cheaper than milo per app for me so ill probably give it a whirl this year when LCN lists it. I was just a bit shocked it was so cheap, everyone seems to be purposefully riding the Humic/Fulvic/Kelp train and jacking up their prices for anything that contains it.


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## ericgautier

Jconnelly6b said:


> I didn't want to harp on the smell, but since you asked.
> 
> Imagine if you had about 5 chickens living in your car for a month, and all of them were heavy smokers and they all urinated in the ash tray.


 :lol: your description of the smell is spot on!


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## g-man

No before and after pictures?


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## Powhatan

ericgautier said:


> Jconnelly6b said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to harp on the smell, but since you asked.
> 
> Imagine if you had about 5 chickens living in your car for a month, and all of them were heavy smokers and they all urinated in the ash tray.
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: your description of the smell is spot on!
Click to expand...

@Jconnelly6b each bag has a strong odor more than Milorganite has? Might be a deal breaker for me.

I received an email from Pete @ GCI that said he's gonna start selling to DIY'ers starting today, so was thinking to try a bag.


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## chrismar

@Powhatan, definitely not as smelly as milo or OG. It has a more "earthy" smell, if that makes sense. Milo/OG smells more like sh*t, especially when wet.


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## LawnSolo

Still not available at GCI site. I received an email indicating it was going to be for sale today.


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## Powhatan

chrismar said:


> @Powhatan, definitely not as smelly as milo or OG. It has a more "earthy" smell, if that makes sense. Milo/OG smells more like sh*t, especially when wet.


@chrismar good to know. The smell doesn't bother me, but the wife can't stand it. Gotta keep the wife happy. :wink:


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## Jconnelly6b

@Powhatan I personally think it's much worse than milo, but I can't stand the smell of cigarettes and ash trays which this reminds me of.

I grew up in farm country in Virginia, and used to wake to the smell of farmers spreading manure on their fields outside my window so a little biosolids aroma is very normal and natural for me.

Certainly not enough to not buy it. I currently have 9 bags in my attached garage and after the first few days the smell has settled and almost disappeared.


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## LawnSolo

I received an email from GCI indicating they ran into a system glitch where DIY customers could not buy the 50lbs bags online. They will get it fixed within few days.


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## ericgautier

@Jconnelly6b I wonder what the smell is when you spread and it is on the lawn though. I'll find out soon.. lol.


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## bmitch05

Yes, I have been patiently waiting for the DIY orders to kick off. My neighbor has been commenting on how his TruGreen lawn looks just as nice as mine... Little does he know I have a double dark application planned later on this week (7-0-0 GreenEffect and 0-0-2 Microgreene) Hopefully I might even get a Carbon X app down in the next week or so. Check mate!


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## Jconnelly6b

bmitch05 said:


> Yes, I have been patiently waiting for the DIY orders to kick off. My neighbor has been commenting on how his TruGreen lawn looks just as nice as mine... Little does he know I have a double dark application planned later on this week (7-0-0 GreenEffect and 0-0-2 Microgreene) Hopefully I might even get a Carbon X app down in the next week or so. Check mate!


Do you notice the GCF spraying have any lasting effect? I bought the biostim pack last year, and don't think I will be buying again.


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## ryeguy

Jconnelly6b said:


> bmitch05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I have been patiently waiting for the DIY orders to kick off. My neighbor has been commenting on how his TruGreen lawn looks just as nice as mine... Little does he know I have a double dark application planned later on this week (7-0-0 GreenEffect and 0-0-2 Microgreene) Hopefully I might even get a Carbon X app down in the next week or so. Check mate!
> 
> 
> 
> Do you notice the GCF spraying have any lasting effect? I bought the biostim pack last year, and don't think I will be buying again.
Click to expand...

What effects were you expecting to see that you aren't? Soil amendments are generally a subtle thing that work long term with the goal of increasing turf health. You might notice you can use less fertilizer to get the same impact. Or that your ground is less compacted in some problematic areas. The biostimulant package should be treated as a bonus to a lawn care program. It isn't nearly as important or impactful as any other aspect of lawncare.

The only super noticable effect I'd expect you to see is if you use one of their liquid fertilization products or something like greeneffect which has iron. Some on this board have said air8 has made a noticeable impact with drainage in their yard.


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## bmitch05

@ryeguy Agreed, I built my own "bio stim" pack based on my overall lawn goals for this year. I recognize that you need to have a realistic expectation of what is going to give you a visual result versus what is going to stimulate the soil activity to help get the most out of your overall fert plan. 0-0-2 MG and 7-0-0 GE applied together do give you the instant gratification of an intense color pop form the 6% iron included in the panel of micros. I will also say that Air8 did green up the lawn in early spring but most of the color change was probably a result of the slow release nitrogen that was applied prior to the Air8 app.


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## Jconnelly6b

ryeguy said:


> Jconnelly6b said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bmitch05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I have been patiently waiting for the DIY orders to kick off. My neighbor has been commenting on how his TruGreen lawn looks just as nice as mine... Little does he know I have a double dark application planned later on this week (7-0-0 GreenEffect and 0-0-2 Microgreene) Hopefully I might even get a Carbon X app down in the next week or so. Check mate!
> 
> 
> 
> Do you notice the GCF spraying have any lasting effect? I bought the biostim pack last year, and don't think I will be buying again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What effects were you expecting to see that you aren't? Soil amendments are generally a subtle thing that work long term with the goal of increasing turf health. You might notice you can use less fertilizer to get the same impact. Or that your ground is less compacted in some problematic areas. The biostimulant package should be treated as a bonus to a lawn care program. It isn't nearly as important or impactful as any other aspect of lawncare.
> 
> The only super noticable effect I'd expect you to see is if you use one of their liquid fertilization products or something like greeneffect which has iron. Some on this board have said air8 has made a noticeable impact with drainage in their yard.
Click to expand...

I don't think my question should be answered with a counter question, that was not why I asked. I said I did not see much if any benefit and will not be purchasing again. Add in the amount of time spent spraying 13k and it doesn't make sense for me.

I asked, because I'm genuinely curious if @bmitch05 would attribute any positive characteristics of the lawn to GCF products. Maybe there are some benefits that I did not notice.


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## Powhatan

For those of you that will not use a full bag application, what storage container do you plan to use? A simple 5 gallon plastic bucket with lid? or something else?


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## bmitch05

@Jconnelly6b to your point, I probably wont use the GCF products next season and focus more on a pre emergent plan rather than soil fertility / macros.

If I do decide to continue with the liquid apps I would mainly stick with the Humic and micros, everything else may be redundant at this point.


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## ryeguy

Powhatan said:


> For those of you that will not use a full bag application, what storage container do you plan to use? A simple 5 gallon plastic bucket with lid? or something else?


Maybe a dumb question, but: is there a reason to use a container? I've always just rolled up half used bags of fert.


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## Powhatan

ryeguy said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you that will not use a full bag application, what storage container do you plan to use? A simple 5 gallon plastic bucket with lid? or something else?
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe a dumb question, but: is there a reason to use a container? I've always just rolled up half used bags of fert.
Click to expand...

humid environment


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## Powhatan

GCI just started selling and is now listed on their website.

Edit: Just placed my order for 1 bag, free shipping to Virginia. Hope Pete delivers. :banana:

Edit 2: 3 hours after order placed I received shipment confirmation it's on the delivery truck. Wow, that was quick. Thanks Pete. :thumbup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw3SYmU6kck


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## LawnSolo

Powhatan said:


> GCI just started selling and is now listed on their website.


Just ordered 2 bags!


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## jdpber

Jconnelly6b said:


> I didn't want to harp on the smell, but since you asked.
> 
> Imagine if you had about 5 chickens living in your car for a month, and all of them were heavy smokers and they all urinated in the ash tray.


 :lol: about just fell out of the chair onto the floor visualizing this


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## LawnSolo

Links where you can buy it:

https://www.gciturfacademy.com/product/carbon-x-turf-ornamental-fertilizer/

https://thelawncarenut.com/collections/soil-optimization/products/carbonx


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## LawnSolo

Good pointers here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hBsISxUqW8


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## Drewmey

LawnSolo said:


> Links where you can buy it:
> 
> https://www.gciturfacademy.com/product/carbon-x-turf-ornamental-fertilizer/
> 
> https://thelawncarenut.com/collections/soil-optimization/products/carbonx


Does anyone else find it weird how little information they are putting up on their webpages (Especially Lawn Care Nut's). Neither site even states the size of the bag in the description?! I assume they are both 50lbs due to the picture at GCI (but it technically never states it). They also don't mention any of the percentages of anything other than the NPK on The Lawn Care Nuts site. And neither have a pdf label or SDS sheet. Thankfully GCI has that image of the product label so I can actually see what is going on but The Lawn Care Nut's info is pretty vague.


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## krusej23

Drewmey said:


> LawnSolo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links where you can buy it:
> 
> https://www.gciturfacademy.com/product/carbon-x-turf-ornamental-fertilizer/
> 
> https://thelawncarenut.com/collections/soil-optimization/products/carbonx
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone else find it weird how little information they are putting up on their webpages (Especially Lawn Care Nut's). Neither site even states the size of the bag in the description?! I assume they are both 50lbs due to the picture at GCI (but it technically never states it). They also don't mention any of the percentages of anything other than the NPK on The Lawn Care Nuts site. And neither have a pdf label or SDS sheet. Thankfully GCI has that image of the product label so I can actually see what is going on but The Lawn Care Nut's info is pretty vague.
Click to expand...

LCN has the size of bag in the top of the description, 50lbs. It also says the NPK is 24-0-4 and 2 Iron. It says what it's derived from on there also. Here is the link to the actual label...https://carbonearth.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/labelv3.jpg


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## Scagfreedom48z+

Just ordered my 4 bags! Finally!


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## Cory

I really wanted to try this but at that price it's not gonna happen. I was thinking it would be around $40 which I could have maybe justified but not $65.


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## LawnCareNut

krusej23 said:


> Drewmey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LawnSolo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links where you can buy it:
> 
> https://www.gciturfacademy.com/product/carbon-x-turf-ornamental-fertilizer/
> 
> https://thelawncarenut.com/collections/soil-optimization/products/carbonx
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone else find it weird how little information they are putting up on their webpages (Especially Lawn Care Nut's). Neither site even states the size of the bag in the description?! I assume they are both 50lbs due to the picture at GCI (but it technically never states it). They also don't mention any of the percentages of anything other than the NPK on The Lawn Care Nuts site. And neither have a pdf label or SDS sheet. Thankfully GCI has that image of the product label so I can actually see what is going on but The Lawn Care Nut's info is pretty vague.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LCN has the size of bag in the top of the description, 50lbs. It also says the NPK is 24-0-4 and 2 Iron. It says what it's derived from on there also. Here is the link to the actual label...https://carbonearth.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/labelv3.jpg
Click to expand...

Glad my website is working - I was afraid maybe the descriptions were not rendering on mobile!! 
For those who missed it, here is the TLDR on the video:
I did some math and such in my video and explained that I don't even have any CX yet myself and that I only got the original test material back in January and that I kind of look at y'all who want to jump on board as early adopters maybe even beta testers too, and I especially said that if you are hesitant then you should wait until I can create more content to support the product - and I trust Matt my friend as well - so that is as transparent as I believe I can be. Any further questions though please shoot them at me.


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## dmouw

I get my FREE supply Monday from the TLF giveaway. Cant wait to Throw'er Down except for the fact I put down an App of slow release that same morning of the drawing. Ugh.


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## LawnSolo

LawnCareNut said:


> krusej23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drewmey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone else find it weird how little information they are putting up on their webpages (Especially Lawn Care Nut's). Neither site even states the size of the bag in the description?! I assume they are both 50lbs due to the picture at GCI (but it technically never states it). They also don't mention any of the percentages of anything other than the NPK on The Lawn Care Nuts site. And neither have a pdf label or SDS sheet. Thankfully GCI has that image of the product label so I can actually see what is going on but The Lawn Care Nut's info is pretty vague.
> 
> 
> 
> LCN has the size of bag in the top of the description, 50lbs. It also says the NPK is 24-0-4 and 2 Iron. It says what it's derived from on there also. Here is the link to the actual label...https://carbonearth.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/labelv3.jpg
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Glad my website is working - I was afraid maybe the descriptions were not rendering on mobile!!
> For those who missed it, here is the TLDR on the video:
> I did some math and such in my video and explained that I don't even have any CX yet myself and that I only got the original test material back in January and that I kind of look at y'all who want to jump on board as early adopters maybe even beta testers too, and I especially said that if you are hesitant then you should wait until I can create more content to support the product - and I trust Matt my friend as well - so that is as transparent as I believe I can be. Any further questions though please shoot them at me.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your video! It answered few questions I had


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## Drewmey

krusej23 said:


> Drewmey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LawnSolo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links where you can buy it:
> 
> https://www.gciturfacademy.com/product/carbon-x-turf-ornamental-fertilizer/
> 
> https://thelawncarenut.com/collections/soil-optimization/products/carbonx
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone else find it weird how little information they are putting up on their webpages (Especially Lawn Care Nut's). Neither site even states the size of the bag in the description?! I assume they are both 50lbs due to the picture at GCI (but it technically never states it). They also don't mention any of the percentages of anything other than the NPK on The Lawn Care Nuts site. And neither have a pdf label or SDS sheet. Thankfully GCI has that image of the product label so I can actually see what is going on but The Lawn Care Nut's info is pretty vague.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LCN has the size of bag in the top of the description, 50lbs. It also says the NPK is 24-0-4 and 2 Iron. It says what it's derived from on there also. Here is the link to the actual label...https://carbonearth.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/labelv3.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks, I completely missed the 50 lbs. I still wish there was a picture of the label. I like to read more than just a list of contents. You know percentages of Mn, Mg, S, etc. And also application instructions.


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## Drewmey

LawnCareNut said:


> krusej23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drewmey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone else find it weird how little information they are putting up on their webpages (Especially Lawn Care Nut's). Neither site even states the size of the bag in the description?! I assume they are both 50lbs due to the picture at GCI (but it technically never states it). They also don't mention any of the percentages of anything other than the NPK on The Lawn Care Nuts site. And neither have a pdf label or SDS sheet. Thankfully GCI has that image of the product label so I can actually see what is going on but The Lawn Care Nut's info is pretty vague.
> 
> 
> 
> LCN has the size of bag in the top of the description, 50lbs. It also says the NPK is 24-0-4 and 2 Iron. It says what it's derived from on there also. Here is the link to the actual label...https://carbonearth.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/labelv3.jpg
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Glad my website is working - I was afraid maybe the descriptions were not rendering on mobile!!
> For those who missed it, here is the TLDR on the video:
> I did some math and such in my video and explained that I don't even have any CX yet myself and that I only got the original test material back in January and that I kind of look at y'all who want to jump on board as early adopters maybe even beta testers too, and I especially said that if you are hesitant then you should wait until I can create more content to support the product - and I trust Matt my friend as well - so that is as transparent as I believe I can be. Any further questions though please shoot them at me.
Click to expand...

I hope you didn't highlight that info and change that picture out just because I'm an idiot! :lol:


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## ksturfguy

If you want to read the label that bad you could just go to green county fert website, they have the label and other stuff on there.


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## Jconnelly6b

@Drewmey the label .pdf is and has been available on the Carbon Earth Co. website for a few months.

https://carbonearth.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/labelv3.jpg


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## Drewmey

Jconnelly6b said:


> @Drewmey the label .pdf is and has been available on the Carbon Earth Co. website for a few months.
> 
> https://carbonearth.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/labelv3.jpg


I get that. But many online stores have labels, sds's, etc. available in the site that it is purchased on. So you can read it without leaving that web page. No searching on the manufacturer website. For example, a link to that very image would have made it so that I didn't have Google stuff and track it down.


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## crzipilot

How many bags on a pallet order and how much did it cost?


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## chrismar

40 bags per pallet. For the NJ group buy it came to $22/bag, so around $880 total.


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## Cory

chrismar said:


> 40 bags per pallet. For the NJ group buy it came to $22/bag, so around $880 total.


I would pay that price, should have got a group together here to go in on a pallet. I would never spend $65 per bag.


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## TN Hawkeye

Cory said:


> chrismar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 40 bags per pallet. For the NJ group buy it came to $22/bag, so around $880 total.
> 
> 
> 
> I would pay that price, should have got a group together here to go in on a pallet. I would never spend $65 per bag.
Click to expand...

For your size yard I can understand that. I can get 2 applications (.75 lbs of N) per bag so about $32.50 each. It was costing my $56 for one application of Milorganite. I'm strongly considering getting a bag to see how it does.


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## osuturfman

The price per pound of N is virtually the same between CX and Milorganite. And you are getting much greater long term benefit with CX. Don't get hung up on the price per bag. Perhaps one of the least effective methods to compare products, even when there is no comparison.


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## Cory

@TN Hawkeye depending on the fert I use I'm currently paying $20 for 34-0-0 or $38 for 16-4-8 per application. At $65 it would be around $110 per app. $22 a bag makes it less expensive than the 16-4-8 I use but the carbon x is a way better product. I may pony up and by a pallet then see if I can sell some of it off.

And forget milo, it's $140 an application, no way I could justify using it. I like to have some money left in the bank after I feed my grass.


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## TN Hawkeye

osuturfman said:


> The price per pound of N is virtually the same between CX and Milorganite. And you are getting much greater long term benefit with CX. Don't get hung up on the price per bag. Perhaps one of the least effective methods to compare products, even when there is no comparison.


Agreed. Looks like Milorganite has gone up to $16-$19 a bag around here. No way I'm paying that for 4 pounds less than last year. Does the Carbon X ship from GCF or from the plant in Kentucky?


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## Powhatan

TN Hawkeye said:


> Does the Carbon X ship from GCF or from the plant in Kentucky?


Mine shipped from GCI - Reidsville, NC


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## SGrabs33

Cory said:


> chrismar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 40 bags per pallet. For the NJ group buy it came to $22/bag, so around $880 total.
> 
> 
> 
> I would pay that price, should have got a group together here to go in on a pallet. I would never spend $65 per bag.
Click to expand...

 :nod: I'd buy a few. Prob a few others around here too.


----------



## ksturfguy

TN Hawkeye said:


> osuturfman said:
> 
> 
> 
> The price per pound of N is virtually the same between CX and Milorganite. And you are getting much greater long term benefit with CX. Don't get hung up on the price per bag. Perhaps one of the least effective methods to compare products, even when there is no comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. Looks like Milorganite has gone up to $16-$19 a bag around here. No way I'm paying that for 4 pounds less than last year. Does the Carbon X ship from GCF or from the plant in Kentucky?
Click to expand...

Yeah Milorganite is crazy expensive, I'm still confused why its so popular. Not sure if it's just from the publicity Allyn Hane gives it on YouTube or what. For a small yard it's a bit more manageable price wise but would never use it for my 20k sqft. I'm on the fence about Carbon X. On the surface sounds like a great product but again about double the price of my normal professional grade fert so not sure it's worth it. I'm at least trying out some of the other N-EXT products this year so we'll see.


----------



## TN Hawkeye

Powhatan said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does the Carbon X ship from GCF or from the plant in Kentucky?
> 
> 
> 
> Mine shipped from GCI - Reidsville, NC
Click to expand...

Thank you.


----------



## Durso81

I agree with some others on here price is just to much, I know it cost allot to ship a 50lb bag so that's what's killing it. Hopefully one day it will be available through Ewing as I would love to try it.


----------



## Scagfreedom48z+

Has anyone done a test plot with CarbonX vs another fert?


----------



## LawnSolo

Someone quick buy a pallet by the Michigan area. I'll buy few bags


----------



## j4c11

17 lb urea - $4.50
15 lb ammonium sulfate - $4.50
3 lb potassium chloride - $1
3 lb ferrous sulfate monohydrate - $1.2

Prices based on retail price of fertilizers at my local ag supplier.

At $22/bag it's not a bad deal actually. A 10lb bag of charcoal is about $10 so there you go. At $65/bag it makes absolutely no sense.


----------



## synergy0852

@LawnSolo I'd be willing to go in. Maybe we should post in the Hometown Discussion Michigan thread?


----------



## osuturfman

j4c11 said:


> 17 lb urea - $4.50
> 15 lb ammonium sulfate - $4.50
> 3 lb potassium chloride - $1
> 3 lb ferrous sulfate monohydrate - $1.2
> 
> Prices based on retail price of fertilizers at my local ag supplier.
> 
> At $22/bag it's not a bad deal actually. A 10lb bag of charcoal is about $10 so there you go. At $65/bag it makes absolutely no sense.


You forgot a few steps:

- Charcoal is not biochar and you will not realize the same benefit. But for argument's sake, let's say you did.
- Still need to add composted poultry manure, which is mainly used to "prime" the biochar as an N source.
- Need to add seaweed extract and humic acid complex either as a separate spray or include with your granular app.
- Blend and combine all of these derivatives into a homogenized prill. This is important for several reasons but again, for argument's sake, we'll keep those separate for now.
- Realize and pay for the economies of scale to package and ship this from a single source in relatively low volume (shipping LTL truck vs. by railcar or barge).
- As a startup, cover your debt service and make enough profit on a very limited product catalog to survive while continuing to develop new products.

I am not trying to convince someone who has their mind made up. Rather, I am trying to demonstrate to others who read this that just because I can make myself a steak and baked potato at home doesn't mean I will have the same dining experience as I would have at Morton's.


----------



## thegrassfactor

Drewmey said:


> LawnSolo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links where you can buy it:
> 
> https://www.gciturfacademy.com/product/carbon-x-turf-ornamental-fertilizer/
> 
> https://thelawncarenut.com/collections/soil-optimization/products/carbonx
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone else find it weird how little information they are putting up on their webpages (Especially Lawn Care Nut's). Neither site even states the size of the bag in the description?! I assume they are both 50lbs due to the picture at GCI (but it technically never states it). They also don't mention any of the percentages of anything other than the NPK on The Lawn Care Nuts site. And neither have a pdf label or SDS sheet. Thankfully GCI has that image of the product label so I can actually see what is going on but The Lawn Care Nut's info is pretty vague.
Click to expand...

I personally apologize. Truthfully, this has come on so fast. We got funding last July (while we were still in R&D[at the time it was a 20-1-6 - which we could not recreate after the first test]), we broke ground in September (September 29), not even having a full plant design (just some ******* cad designs we sketched during a round table), and produced our first ton of fertilizer to deliver 5 months later.

We rushed it. We way over rushed it.

There are two of us that handle everything on the business end and 5 that run the plant in KY. To say we are overwhelmed is an understatement. On top of it, we have a shoestring budget. Instead of us using our budget to build business infrastructure, we poured it into sizing up equipment to higher through-puts (our first year we planned on doing less than 10% of the total tonnage of our first sale). We really had no choice - either say no to the sale and make everything "cool" OR say yes to the sale and make everything, well, as best as we could do without spending the money on a professional (DIY if you will). Considering we had foreign investors, who at the time freightened us, we went for the sale and upsized the equipment.

The other aspect is IP. We have no experience on this side of the industry. And I'll give you an example of what kept and keeps our lips a little tight. I got a phone call from a sales guy I used to buy a lot of material from. Verbatim, I was told, "you've got a lot to learn. I know where the bodies are buried. Hell, I helped dig the graves." And I took that to mean that it's easy to get your throat cut. So we dont want to reveal more than we have to. We follow label laws, but we do not disclose everything because, well, we don't have to.

We don't mean to hide labels and SDS's - that's our inability to website very well. But I will say this, our SDS reads "proprietary" all across it because we're patent pending. You won't learn anything from it that's not on the label.

So again, I apologize. We rushed this way faster than we should have, hindsite 20/20. And the prosumer/DIY market was never in our wildest dream an intended market. It was truthfully Allyn that said, "give it a chance, people here care."

And for those that see the bag price, it comes down to warehousing, boxing, and shipping material in 50lb bags. It's expensive. I wish it wasn't, especially as a manufacturer I don't like it, but it's an unfortunate evil. We pitched to distributors high, far and low, with repeated laughs right out of the building. It's changed now for the better, which gives us options on being slelective about who we do and don't so business with.

Tl;Dr we way over rushed it. We're not as organized as we'd like to be, for now, but we will get there.


----------



## Jconnelly6b

Y'all....

If for nothing else (and there are many reasons all listed in this thread, and elsewhere) spring the few bucks for a bag or two and support @thegrassfactor who has been a library of knowledge for us here on TLF and those who watch his videos. He took what the market has been asking for (granular fert that includes nearly every soil amendment around) and threw in biosolids, iron, and biochar.

I don't know of a more complete granular fertilizer on the market, and certainly not one that can be shipped to your door for (even at the GCI/LCN price) a very economical price considering N/1000.

Let's continue to discuss, express doubt, all of those good conversations. The science is important. But if you're on the fence, my opinion is what do you have to lose?

I ordered an entire pallet for us NJ guys as p as I did the math on the N/1000, and have my 7 bags in the garage that will start going down in a few weeks.


----------



## j4c11

osuturfman said:


> j4c11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 17 lb urea - $4.50
> 15 lb ammonium sulfate - $4.50
> 3 lb potassium chloride - $1
> 3 lb ferrous sulfate monohydrate - $1.2
> 
> Prices based on retail price of fertilizers at my local ag supplier.
> 
> At $22/bag it's not a bad deal actually. A 10lb bag of charcoal is about $10 so there you go. At $65/bag it makes absolutely no sense.
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot a few steps:
> 
> - Charcoal is not biochar and you will not realize the same benefit. But for argument's sake, let's say you did.
> - Still need to add composted poultry manure, which is mainly used to "prime" the biochar as an N source.
> - Need to add seaweed extract and humic acid complex either as a separate spray or include with your granular app.
> - Blend and combine all of these derivatives into a homogenized prill. This is important for several reasons but again, for argument's sake, we'll keep those separate for now.
> - Realize and pay for the economies of scale to package and ship this from a single source in relatively low volume (shipping LTL truck vs. by railcar or barge).
> - As a startup, cover your debt service and make enough profit on a very limited product catalog to survive while continuing to develop new products.
> 
> I am not trying to convince someone who has their mind made up. Rather, I am trying to demonstrate to others who read this that just because I can make myself a steak and baked potato at home doesn't mean I will have the same dining experience as I would have at Morton's.
Click to expand...

I was mostly jesting with the bag of charcoal - though lump charcoal is pyrolyzed hardwood - but anyway that wasn't my point. If I can already get the exact same amount of N,P,K and Fe from the exact same sources for $10 retail, then it's fair to ask what am I getting for the rest. To the grass potato and steak(NPK) is potato and steak(NPK), and I'm not looking for an "experience" with my fertilizer application. What I'm looking for is that when I hand over cash, I get value in return. Do all the things you mentioned deliver an additional $12 worth of value? I say yes. Do they deliver an additional $55 worth of value? No, not in my opinion.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze

thegrassfactor said:


> Drewmey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LawnSolo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links where you can buy it:
> 
> https://www.gciturfacademy.com/product/carbon-x-turf-ornamental-fertilizer/
> 
> https://thelawncarenut.com/collections/soil-optimization/products/carbonx
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone else find it weird how little information they are putting up on their webpages (Especially Lawn Care Nut's). Neither site even states the size of the bag in the description?! I assume they are both 50lbs due to the picture at GCI (but it technically never states it). They also don't mention any of the percentages of anything other than the NPK on The Lawn Care Nuts site. And neither have a pdf label or SDS sheet. Thankfully GCI has that image of the product label so I can actually see what is going on but The Lawn Care Nut's info is pretty vague.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I personally apologize. Truthfully, this has come on so fast. We got funding last July (while we were still in R&D[at the time it was a 20-1-6 - which we could not recreate after the first test]), we broke ground in September (September 29), not even having a full plant design (just some ******* cad designs we sketched during a round table), and produced our first ton of fertilizer to deliver 5 months later.
> 
> We rushed it. We way over rushed it.
> 
> There are two of us that handle everything on the business end and 5 that run the plant in KY. To say we are overwhelmed is an understatement. On top of it, we have a shoestring budget. Instead of us using our budget to build business infrastructure, we poured it into sizing up equipment to higher through-puts (our first year we planned on doing less than 10% of the total tonnage of our first sale). We really had no choice - either say no to the sale and make everything "cool" OR say yes to the sale and make everything, well, as best as we could do without spending the money on a professional (DIY if you will). Considering we had foreign investors, who at the time freightened us, we went for the sale and upsized the equipment.
> 
> The other aspect is IP. We have no experience on this side of the industry. And I'll give you an example of what kept and keeps our lips a little tight. I got a phone call from a sales guy I used to buy a lot of material from. Verbatim, I was told, "you've got a lot to learn. I know where the bodies are buried. Hell, I helped dig the graves." And I took that to mean that it's easy to get your throat cut. So we dont want to reveal more than we have to. We follow label laws, but we do not disclose everything because, well, we don't have to.
> 
> We don't mean to hide labels and SDS's - that's our inability to website very well. But I will say this, our SDS reads "proprietary" all across it because we're patent pending. You won't learn anything from it that's not on the label.
> 
> So again, I apologize. We rushed this way faster than we should have, hindsite 20/20. And the prosumer/DIY market was never in our wildest dream an intended market. It was truthfully Allyn that said, "give it a chance, people here care."
> 
> And for those that see the bag price, it comes down to warehousing, boxing, and shipping material in 50lb bags. It's expensive. I wish it wasn't, especially as a manufacturer I don't like it, but it's an unfortunate evil. We pitched to distributors high, far and low, with repeated laughs right out of the building. It's changed now for the better, which gives us options on being slelective about who we do and don't so business with.
> 
> Tl;Dr we way over rushed it. We're not as organized as we'd like to be, for now, but we will get there.
Click to expand...

Can you post information about what law's prevent you from shipping into Oregon? I can seemingly buy every ingredient individually online and have it shipped in, so im confused why no N-Ext Products or this can come in.


----------



## osuturfman

j4c11 said:


> osuturfman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> j4c11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 17 lb urea - $4.50
> 15 lb ammonium sulfate - $4.50
> 3 lb potassium chloride - $1
> 3 lb ferrous sulfate monohydrate - $1.2
> 
> Prices based on retail price of fertilizers at my local ag supplier.
> 
> At $22/bag it's not a bad deal actually. A 10lb bag of charcoal is about $10 so there you go. At $65/bag it makes absolutely no sense.
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot a few steps:
> 
> - Charcoal is not biochar and you will not realize the same benefit. But for argument's sake, let's say you did.
> - Still need to add composted poultry manure, which is mainly used to "prime" the biochar as an N source.
> - Need to add seaweed extract and humic acid complex either as a separate spray or include with your granular app.
> - Blend and combine all of these derivatives into a homogenized prill. This is important for several reasons but again, for argument's sake, we'll keep those separate for now.
> - Realize and pay for the economies of scale to package and ship this from a single source in relatively low volume (shipping LTL truck vs. by railcar or barge).
> - As a startup, cover your debt service and make enough profit on a very limited product catalog to survive while continuing to develop new products.
> 
> I am not trying to convince someone who has their mind made up. Rather, I am trying to demonstrate to others who read this that just because I can make myself a steak and baked potato at home doesn't mean I will have the same dining experience as I would have at Morton's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was mostly jesting with the bag of charcoal - though lump charcoal is pyrolyzed hardwood - but anyway that wasn't my point. If I can already get the exact same amount of N,P,K and Fe from the exact same sources for $10 retail, then it's fair to ask what am I getting for the rest. To the grass potato and steak(NPK) is potato and steak(NPK), and I'm not looking for an "experience" with my fertilizer application. What I'm looking for is that when I hand over cash, I get value in return. Do all the things you mentioned deliver an additional $12 worth of value? I say yes. Do they deliver an additional $55 worth of value? No, not in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Sounds like it's not for you and to each his/her own.


----------



## thegrassfactor

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Can you post information about what law's prevent you from shipping into Oregon? I can seemingly buy every ingredient individually online and have it shipped in, so im confused why no N-Ext Products or this can come in.


Sure, none. We can. That decision was made by Pete and allyn to avoid the confusion on why GCF has trouble registering there(I don't know the answer to this) and we don't. We provided a heavy metal sample with our label and there were no issues on our end. Could be a granular vs liquid thing, I'm not sure.


----------



## j4c11

osuturfman said:


> Sounds like it's not for you and to each his/her own.


Absolutely. Simply posting information to help people make informed decisions.


----------



## thegrassfactor

j4c11 said:


> osuturfman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like it's not for you and to each his/her own.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely. Simply posting information to help people make informed decisions.
Click to expand...

Yeah unfortunately the costs associated in seeing the bag price jump to 65$ comes from travel to warehouse, cost to warehouse, inventory management, labor, boxes, and shipling a single 50lb bag in said box. We personally don't have to ability to do all of that so it has to be done by third party. The amount of work Allyn put into that is astounding. It's the best solution he could find to bring it to DIY and we're proud to support his tireless efforts.


----------



## FuzzeWuzze

thegrassfactor said:


> FuzzeWuzze said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you post information about what law's prevent you from shipping into Oregon? I can seemingly buy every ingredient individually online and have it shipped in, so im confused why no N-Ext Products or this can come in.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, none. We can. That decision was made by Pete and allyn to avoid the confusion on why GCF has trouble registering there(I don't know the answer to this) and we don't. We provided a heavy metal sample with our label and there were no issues on our end. Could be a granular vs liquid thing, I'm not sure.
Click to expand...

Thats disappointing to hear, hopefully you guys can figure it out in the future.

Even at $65/bag its basically the same price per #N we can get Milo for out here, plus it has all the other added components.

I'm stuck i guess with Milo + Kelp4Less soluble powders for now to get a similar (and more expensive) effect.


----------



## Texas MH

I ordered my first 3 bags on Friday and looking forwarding to using it and ordering more over the summer. I'm rooting for @thegrassfactor, GCI and LCN. Like many of us DIYers, over the past few years they all have provided me with a ton of helpful education, quality entertainment and even answered email questions on various other lawn items I've had, which they easily could have (and probably should have) ignored.

I've experienced first hand how passionate innovators can create change in mature industries from which consumers ultimately benefit from thru better products and (eventually) lower prices. For me, I personally enjoy supporting these guys given the effort they've put into it and looking forward to seeing the results In my lawn.


----------



## LawnSolo

synergy0852 said:


> @LawnSolo I'd be willing to go in. Maybe we should post in the Hometown Discussion Michigan thread?


Sounds like a good idea  I'm willing to buy few bags if someone gets the pallet :mrgreen:


----------



## j4c11

thegrassfactor said:


> Yeah unfortunately the costs associated in seeing the bag price jump to 65$ comes from travel to warehouse, cost to warehouse, inventory management, labor, boxes, and shipling a single 50lb bag in said box. We personally don't have to ability to do all of that so it has to be done by third party. The amount of work Allyn put into that is astounding. It's the best solution he could find to bring it to DIY and we're proud to support his tireless efforts.


I completely understand where the cost is coming from but at the end of the day I'm still paying $65 out of pocket.

Since we can account for 37lb out of the 50lb, I'm assuming the biochar and remaining micros are in the other 13lb. Since NPK is abundant and readily available for everyone locally in various forms, maybe at some point you could come up with a 15 lb bag with just the "other stuff". It would be cheaper to handle, produce and ship and probably a win for everyone.


----------



## thegrassfactor

j4c11 said:


> thegrassfactor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah unfortunately the costs associated in seeing the bag price jump to 65$ comes from travel to warehouse, cost to warehouse, inventory management, labor, boxes, and shipling a single 50lb bag in said box. We personally don't have to ability to do all of that so it has to be done by third party. The amount of work Allyn put into that is astounding. It's the best solution he could find to bring it to DIY and we're proud to support his tireless efforts.
> 
> 
> 
> I completely understand where the cost is coming from but at the end of the day I'm still paying $65 out of pocket.
> 
> Since we can account for 37lb out of the 50lb, I'm assuming the biochar and remaining micros are in the other 13lb. Since NPK is abundant and readily available for everyone locally in various forms, maybe at some point you could come up with a 15 lb bag with just the "other stuff". It would be cheaper to handle, produce and ship and probably a win for everyone.
Click to expand...

Probably not, the costs associated with homogenizing something is extremely expensive. Contec, for example, can range in the 50$-100$/bag range by the pallet. We're lucky to be able to do it for the price we do. The argument would still be the same - "why does this cost as much as that but this doesn't have the NPK value of that." So while it might price at the low end of a Contec product to the door, the amount of time it would take to explain the costs makes it prohibitive for markets outside of golf or specialty.


----------



## ksturfguy

Thanks for getting on here and explaining stuff Matt. The fact your willing to come on here still and interact with us is one of the big reasons I will at least buy a bag or 2 of Carbon X in the future to try out.

Maybe I'll get around to making a test plot where 1 plot is treated with Carbon X and some of the other N-EXT products and other plot with the normal fert I buy from my local store.

Either way I believe in your product and your science and I think Carbon X is a good quality product. Like you said the DIYer wasn't really your target audience and you did what you could to make it available to us, if people don't like the price then don't buy it.


----------



## Durso81

@thegrassfactor I know intially your plans were for pro's and not the Diy person. But with the response from the Diy community do you think you may try to reach out to different retail channels to sell you product like a Ewing or siteone?

Of course if you did I would prefer Ewing as it closer and that's were I shop already for my fertilizer. This year I'm going to be trying Anuvia greentrx. And it would be awesome if your product was around the same price point as that is. Which if you took the cost of shipping a single bag out of the $65 it would be.

Although I don't know if anybody can sell as many bags as The LCN did in a few hours lol 😀


----------



## g-man

@j4c11 I think in this case the total is more than the sum of the parts.

I researched this a while ago and Matt also explained it in one of his videos. The carbon mixed with the manure behaves very different than just the two of them independently. Actually the biochar by itself could have a negative effect (takes nutrients from the soil). While yes, you can buy AS, SOP (not MOP), chicken manure, biochar, RGS, iron and all the other stuff, I dont think you will see the same effect/response. Also, spreading all of that will take a lot of effort. I'm going to try it and I actually which Matt could make a lower nitrogen version (1-0-1 ratio) that will benefit me better, but I understand this will take time to develop the demand to justify the development expense.

It will be great for SiteOne or Ewing to carry it, but they wont do it even if Matt begs them until they could see the sale volumes to justify adding it to their inventory. Give it time to grow. Go ask them to carry it. For now, the early adopters have to pay the shipping cost to get it. A flat rate large box from USPS is $17.60 + warehousing + printing shipping label + labor to place into the box and ship + shipping cost from plant to warehouse + some profit for the effort; I think $65 is a fair price.


----------



## Cory

I personally pack and ship 5,000 to 7,000 packages a year with our business. If it's shipping though a third party logistics company it shouldn't cost more than $12 per 50lbs bag for the actual shipping cost with FedEx, if they are big enough logistics company they should have the best discount through FedEx. If that company is paying more than that then that company is paying to much. Boxes, labels, and tape is cheap. The cost gets crazy on the DIY side because Allyn or Pete need to make something from it and the logistics company has to pull a profit. The cost is high because too many people need to make money from it. If it goes as well as milo did last year then Matt should be able to get to the point they can do shipping in house or hire a better logistics company.


----------



## JohnP

I got my 3 bags and will buy a fourth once Allyn is restocked!

@Cory maybe it's just not for you. Me? I'm very happy to know that my purchase is supporting people that are active here, YouTube and in this community in general. Even at $65/bag it's less per pound of N per app than buying Milo at the retail price and I don't even have to go fetch it.


----------



## Durso81

g-man said:


> It will be great for SiteOne or Ewing to carry it, but they wont do it even if Matt begs them until they could see the sale volumes to justify adding it to their inventory. Give it time to grow. Go ask them to carry it. For now, the early adopters have to pay the shipping cost to get it. A flat rate large box from USPS is $17.60 + warehousing + printing shipping label + labor to place into the box and ship + shipping cost from plant to warehouse + some profit for the effort; I think $65 is a fair price.


Oh I get this would take time to get into a Ewing or site one, they just started. I was just curious if his business plan would change in the future to go after trying to sell in a Ewing or site one to have another way of putting in the diy'ers hands. As there original plan was pro only.

And I get Ewing would want to see sales to warrant the item and even once they did they wouldn't put in all there locations to start they would start with the locations that sell similar fertilizers already to see how it competes in the market.

Hey maybe if everyone on here floods ewing or site one with emails to carry carbon x they just may think about it lol!


----------



## thegrassfactor

Cory said:


> I personally pack and ship 5,000 to 7,000 packages a year with our business. If it's shipping though a third party logistics company it shouldn't cost more than $12 per 50lbs bag for the actual shipping cost with FedEx, if they are big enough logistics company they should have the best discount through FedEx. If that company is paying more than that then that company is paying to much. Boxes, labels, and tape is cheap. The cost gets crazy on the DIY side because Allyn or Pete need to make something from it and the logistics company has to pull a profit. The cost is high because too many people need to make money from it. If it goes as well as milo did last year then Matt should be able to get to the point they can do shipping in house or hire a better logistics company.


Honestly, we will always stay away from fulfillment. I think our team has greater passion in research, development, and processing/manufacturing. We'd rather let Allyn or Pete develop that aspect. We'd rather be AgBiome than Amazon. Auditing our strengths and weeknesses, our priorities lie in flexing our passions. We feel like long term this will lead to retention and positive company culture. Our logistical involvement will begin and end at moving pallet minimum quantities

You should reach out to Allyn and talk about these things relating to packaging & fulfillment - I know he would appreciate it very very much. I don't think research with either party has ever seen pricing anywhere near that low.



Durso81 said:


> @thegrassfactor I know intially your plans were for pro's and not the Diy person. But with the response from the Diy community do you think you may try to reach out to different retail channels to sell you product like a Ewing or siteone?
> 
> Of course if you did I would prefer Ewing as it closer and that's were I shop already for my fertilizer. This year I'm going to be trying Anuvia greentrx. And it would be awesome if your product was around the same price point as that is. Which if you took the cost of shipping a single bag out of the $65 it would be.
> 
> Although I don't know if anybody can sell as many bags as The LCN did in a few hours lol 😀


Yes, the response blew projections out of the water. In terms of economy of scale, it is a fraction of what it takes to be profitable, but it was a massive team morale boost - which is worth it's weight in gold. The positive response has overwhelmed GCF and us so much so, we are taking steps to further streamline processes.

As far as national distribution, we are just now gaining some footing because of the response/results from the pros. Yes, we want to compete with Anuvia (which we do on the pro side), but again, that's a $160mil project. We're pennies in comparison. We have to "earn our stripes" so to speak.


----------



## Durso81

thegrassfactor said:


> Durso81 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @thegrassfactor I know intially your plans were for pro's and not the Diy person. But with the response from the Diy community do you think you may try to reach out to different retail channels to sell you product like a Ewing or siteone?
> 
> Of course if you did I would prefer Ewing as it closer and that's were I shop already for my fertilizer. This year I'm going to be trying Anuvia greentrx. And it would be awesome if your product was around the same price point as that is. Which if you took the cost of shipping a single bag out of the $65 it would be.
> 
> Although I don't know if anybody can sell as many bags as The LCN did in a few hours lol 😀
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the response blew projections out of the water. In terms of economy of scale, it is a fraction of what it takes to be profitable, but it was a massive team morale boost - which is worth it's weight in gold. The positive response has overwhelmed GCF and us so much so, we are taking steps to further streamline processes.
> 
> As far as national distribution, we are just now gaining some footing because of the response/results from the pros. Yes, we want to compete with Anuvia (which we do on the pro side), but again, that's a $160mil project. We're pennies in comparison. We have to "earn our stripes" so to speak.
Click to expand...

First thank you for taking the time out of your day to answer our questions I can only imagine how busy you are starting a company.

Team morale boosts are worth allot.

That is awesome to be able to say you are competing with Anuvia on the pro side. You will earn those stripes.

On that note I reflected and decided to change my mind on going with Anuvia and going with Carbon X just ordered a bag from Pete. I thought back to everything I have learned from you over the years and that alone is worth more then the extra $30-$35 your fertilizer is going to cost me. And I rather see my 💰 go to someone who has given so much to the lawn community. Hey I saved a 40min roundtrip drive in Atlanta to Ewing by ordering online. Lol


----------



## Miggity

Durso81 said:


> On that note I reflected and decided to change my mind on going with Anuvia and going with Carbon X just ordered a bag from Pete. I thought back to everything I have learned from you over the years and that alone is worth more then the extra $30-$35 your fertilizer is going to cost me. And I rather see my 💰 go to someone who has given so much to the lawn community. Hey I saved a 40min roundtrip drive in Atlanta to Ewing by ordering online. Lol


^+1 on everything except swap the Annuvia part with seven bags of Milo currently sitting in my garage. I hope to have my CX by next weekend. Thanks for everything Matt. I hope Lushy and everyone else goes ham on the Super Chat again tonight.


----------



## Drewmey

thegrassfactor said:


> Drewmey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LawnSolo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Links where you can buy it:
> 
> https://www.gciturfacademy.com/product/carbon-x-turf-ornamental-fertilizer/
> 
> https://thelawncarenut.com/collections/soil-optimization/products/carbonx
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone else find it weird how little information they are putting up on their webpages (Especially Lawn Care Nut's). Neither site even states the size of the bag in the description?! I assume they are both 50lbs due to the picture at GCI (but it technically never states it). They also don't mention any of the percentages of anything other than the NPK on The Lawn Care Nuts site. And neither have a pdf label or SDS sheet. Thankfully GCI has that image of the product label so I can actually see what is going on but The Lawn Care Nut's info is pretty vague.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I personally apologize. Truthfully, this has come on so fast. We got funding last July (while we were still in R&D[at the time it was a 20-1-6 - which we could not recreate after the first test]), we broke ground in September (September 29), not even having a full plant design (just some ******* cad designs we sketched during a round table), and produced our first ton of fertilizer to deliver 5 months later.
> 
> We rushed it. We way over rushed it.
> 
> There are two of us that handle everything on the business end and 5 that run the plant in KY. To say we are overwhelmed is an understatement. On top of it, we have a shoestring budget. Instead of us using our budget to build business infrastructure, we poured it into sizing up equipment to higher through-puts (our first year we planned on doing less than 10% of the total tonnage of our first sale). We really had no choice - either say no to the sale and make everything "cool" OR say yes to the sale and make everything, well, as best as we could do without spending the money on a professional (DIY if you will). Considering we had foreign investors, who at the time freightened us, we went for the sale and upsized the equipment.
> 
> The other aspect is IP. We have no experience on this side of the industry. And I'll give you an example of what kept and keeps our lips a little tight. I got a phone call from a sales guy I used to buy a lot of material from. Verbatim, I was told, "you've got a lot to learn. I know where the bodies are buried. Hell, I helped dig the graves." And I took that to mean that it's easy to get your throat cut. So we dont want to reveal more than we have to. We follow label laws, but we do not disclose everything because, well, we don't have to.
> 
> We don't mean to hide labels and SDS's - that's our inability to website very well. But I will say this, our SDS reads "proprietary" all across it because we're patent pending. You won't learn anything from it that's not on the label.
> 
> So again, I apologize. We rushed this way faster than we should have, hindsite 20/20. And the prosumer/DIY market was never in our wildest dream an intended market. It was truthfully Allyn that said, "give it a chance, people here care."
> 
> And for those that see the bag price, it comes down to warehousing, boxing, and shipping material in 50lb bags. It's expensive. I wish it wasn't, especially as a manufacturer I don't like it, but it's an unfortunate evil. We pitched to distributors high, far and low, with repeated laughs right out of the building. It's changed now for the better, which gives us options on being slelective about who we do and don't so business with.
> 
> Tl;Dr we way over rushed it. We're not as organized as we'd like to be, for now, but we will get there.
Click to expand...

No worries and definitely don't need to apologize. I can't imagine the difficulty in designing, manufacturing and selling a product like this. I am excited about the product and was therefore just looking to get all the info I could. I'm glad it's out and I know there are tons of others wanting to use it. So we are glad you rushed it  No qualms about the price either. I have a feeling many people will plan meet ups and buy a pallot to save on shipping. As noted, the DIY pricing is in line with many organic programs. So I think people will be open to the current pricing structure.


----------



## TN Hawkeye

@thegrassfactor I remember when I found your YouTube channel. I was so excited to find someone in East Tn to watch. I even sent you an email telling you such, I am so glad that you have been able to grow from where I started watching to now. I will do whatever I can to support you. I will be ordering a bag or two tomorrow. Like many have said, what I have learned from you doesn't even come close to what you will earn off my purchase. Thank you for coming on here and dropping some knowledge on us. Best of luck in the future.


----------



## Mike1Bravo

chrismar said:


> 40 bags per pallet. For the NJ group buy it came to $22/bag, so around $880 total.


I'm located in NJ & super interested in getting a bag for $22 in the near future.


----------



## chrismar

Mike1Bravo said:


> I'm located in NJ & super interested in getting a bag for $22 in the near future.


Hey Mike, unfortunately the NJ pallet was pre-split before it was ordered (to ensure we had enough folks). @Jconnelly6b might have an extra bag or two. If not, I think we plan to do this again next year. Keep an eye on the NJ hometown thread for the next one!


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## bmitch05

Not fully understanding the gripe over the CX price per bag, Scott's sells huge bags of weed and feed to hopeless souls all day long, everyday of the week, at every big box store all over God's green earth for the same price point. Scott's also provides zero support to their customers about how to use their products or what is actually necessary to be successful, just keep the masses blindly buying up product every year with the hopes of having a nice lawn.

Matt, Allyn, and Pete on the other hand have educated a mass of individuals fed up with being one of the hopeless souls and take the time to put out FREE content to a very hungry DIY market. Taking all of this into consideration $65 for a bag of fertilizer that supports a group of good guys that produce free content for a living, well justified. Sounds like all the CX product was here and went like a fart in the wind so it seems not too many others are contemplating the price either. Keep up the solid work fellas! Been fun watching this community grow.


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## Mike1Bravo

bmitch05 said:


> Not fully understanding the gripe over the CX price per bag, Scott's sells huge bags of weed and feed to hopeless souls all day long, everyday of the week, at every big box store all over God's green earth for the same price point. Scott's also provides zero support to their customers about how to use their products or what is actually necessary to be successful, just keep the masses blindly buying up product every year with the hopes of having a nice lawn.
> 
> Matt, Allyn, and Pete on the other hand have educated a mass of individuals fed up with being one of the hopeless souls and take the time to put out FREE content to a very hungry DIY market. Taking all of this into consideration $65 for a bag of fertilizer that supports a group of good guys that produce free content for a living, well justified. Sounds like all the CX product was here and went like a fart in the wind so it seems not too many others are contemplating the price either. Keep up the solid work fellas! Been fun watching this community grow.


For what it's worth, I bought a bag myself to support those guys. However, I'll try and help you get over this "gripe" and understand. When you have 2 kids + a wife, a mortgage, NJ property taxes at that, then you're gonna try and find a way to get a bag for as cheap as possible. Hope this enlightens you.


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## Durso81

bmitch05 said:


> Not fully understanding the gripe over the CX price per bag, Scott's sells huge bags of weed and feed to hopeless souls all day long, everyday of the week, at every big box store all over God's green earth for the same price point. Scott's also provides zero support to their customers about how to use their products or what is actually necessary to be successful, just keep the masses blindly buying up product every year with the hopes of having a nice lawn.
> 
> Matt, Allyn, and Pete on the other hand have educated a mass of individuals fed up with being one of the hopeless souls and take the time to put out FREE content to a very hungry DIY market. Taking all of this into consideration $65 for a bag of fertilizer that supports a group of good guys that produce free content for a living, well justified. Sounds like all the CX product was here and went like a fart in the wind so it seems not too many others are contemplating the price either. Keep up the solid work fellas! Been fun watching this community grow.


So I agree with you on they give so much info to this community and that's why I changed my mind and bought a bag.

But allot of us or at least I don't buy the Scott's fertilizer or buy from big box stores. I shop at Ewing and can get a bag of Anuvia greentrx for around $25 which is a good fertilizer. And if I want to go straight synthetic I can get a 50lb bag of 24-0-11 for $16. So there is allot more out there then Scott's, milorganite or any big box brand.

My Hope is one day it will be in a landscape store and then I would guess it would be around the $25-$30 range as other fertilizer are in this class cause you wouldn't have the individual bag shipping cost.

And as @Mike1Bravo said some of us have allot else to spend our money on so we look for the best bang for our buck.


----------



## Mike1Bravo

You got it, thank you.



chrismar said:


> Mike1Bravo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm located in NJ & super interested in getting a bag for $22 in the near future.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Mike, unfortunately the NJ pallet was pre-split before it was ordered (to ensure we had enough folks). @Jconnelly6b might have an extra bag or two. If not, I think we plan to do this again next year. Keep an eye on the NJ hometown thread for the next one!@Jconnelly6b
Click to expand...


----------



## LawnCareNut

Cory said:


> I personally pack and ship 5,000 to 7,000 packages a year with our business. If it's shipping though a third party logistics company it shouldn't cost more than $12 per 50lbs bag for the actual shipping cost with FedEx, if they are big enough logistics company they should have the best discount through FedEx. If that company is paying more than that then that company is paying to much. Boxes, labels, and tape is cheap. The cost gets crazy on the DIY side because Allyn or Pete need to make something from it and the logistics company has to pull a profit. The cost is high because too many people need to make money from it. If it goes as well as milo did last year then Matt should be able to get to the point they can do shipping in house or hire a better logistics company.


please let me know who you use - I'm always willing to improve. I've invested heavily in this myself. I have warehouse space in 3 locations around the US (currently can't stock them all for obvious reasons) and this may be why I cannot realize the pricing you say you are getting. So for sure, in the future, any of you guys who are experts in a field such as this please reach out and help us all out! You'll be a hero if you can save everyone money. I'd love to sell this cheaper because I plan to go head-to-head with Scotts here very soon.


----------



## JohnP

I have a lot of excitement for my Carbon X shipment Mr. Hane! I appreciate you a lot for working hard with Matt and team to make it a reality. I'm looking forward to throwing down "a lot" of Carbon X this year!


----------



## Powhatan

Powhatan said:


> ryeguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you that will not use a full bag application, what storage container do you plan to use? A simple 5 gallon plastic bucket with lid? or something else?
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe a dumb question, but: is there a reason to use a container? I've always just rolled up half used bags of fert.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> humid environment
Click to expand...

I purchased a 5 gallon plastic HDPE rated bucket with a gamma seal plastic HDPE rated lid. The gamma seal is suppose to create a leak-proof and completely airtight seal.


----------



## Cory

LawnCareNut said:


> Cory said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally pack and ship 5,000 to 7,000 packages a year with our business. If it's shipping though a third party logistics company it shouldn't cost more than $12 per 50lbs bag for the actual shipping cost with FedEx, if they are big enough logistics company they should have the best discount through FedEx. If that company is paying more than that then that company is paying to much. Boxes, labels, and tape is cheap. The cost gets crazy on the DIY side because Allyn or Pete need to make something from it and the logistics company has to pull a profit. The cost is high because too many people need to make money from it. If it goes as well as milo did last year then Matt should be able to get to the point they can do shipping in house or hire a better logistics company.
> 
> 
> 
> please let me know who you use - I'm always willing to improve. I've invested heavily in this myself. I have warehouse space in 3 locations around the US (currently can't stock them all for obvious reasons) and this may be why I cannot realize the pricing you say you are getting. So for sure, in the future, any of you guys who are experts in a field such as this please reach out and help us all out! You'll be a hero if you can save everyone money. I'd love to sell this cheaper because I plan to go head-to-head with Scotts here very soon.
Click to expand...

Are you using a third party shipper? If so then they probably aren't gonna tell you what they are actually paying for actual shipping cost, what they pay to fed Ex . I don't use a third party, I ship everything myself, but we get a discount with our affiliated corporation with Fed Ex. We use Shipping Easy for small items that go through the post office and Fed Ex for anything that won't fit in a Priority A box or smaller If you are shipping yourself then whoever is in charge needs to contact Fed Ex and work a deal with them.


----------



## LawnCareNut

Cory said:


> LawnCareNut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cory said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally pack and ship 5,000 to 7,000 packages a year with our business. If it's shipping though a third party logistics company it shouldn't cost more than $12 per 50lbs bag for the actual shipping cost with FedEx, if they are big enough logistics company they should have the best discount through FedEx. If that company is paying more than that then that company is paying to much. Boxes, labels, and tape is cheap. The cost gets crazy on the DIY side because Allyn or Pete need to make something from it and the logistics company has to pull a profit. The cost is high because too many people need to make money from it. If it goes as well as milo did last year then Matt should be able to get to the point they can do shipping in house or hire a better logistics company.
> 
> 
> 
> please let me know who you use - I'm always willing to improve. I've invested heavily in this myself. I have warehouse space in 3 locations around the US (currently can't stock them all for obvious reasons) and this may be why I cannot realize the pricing you say you are getting. So for sure, in the future, any of you guys who are experts in a field such as this please reach out and help us all out! You'll be a hero if you can save everyone money. I'd love to sell this cheaper because I plan to go head-to-head with Scotts here very soon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you using a third party shipper? If so then they probably aren't gonna tell you what they are actually paying for actual shipping cost, what they pay to fed Ex . I don't use a third party, I ship everything myself, but we get a discount with our affiliated corporation with Fed Ex. We use Shipping Easy for small items that go through the post office and Fed Ex for anything that won't fit in a Priority A box or smaller If you are shipping yourself then whoever is in charge needs to contact Fed Ex and work a deal with them.
Click to expand...

Ok so the average small business like me who doesn't have piggy-back access like that can't attain that $12 per bag shipping rate correct? Because I read it wrong - I though you were telling me that I should be able to ship fitties for $12 plus cheap tape.


----------



## Cory

@LawnCareNut You'd have to call Fed Ex and ask, normal small business rate is around 30% off retail rate, a contracted rate for a company that's shipping a ton of boxes is 70% + off retail rate. But my point was that your logistics company should be paying the 70% off rate or better, if not you may want to find another logistics company. I actually sat down this morning and wrote out some numbers based on my rates and all cost associated, not sure you could get the cost any lower and still pull a decent profit using a logistics company. It's all dependent on how far the 50lbs box has to travel.

Regardless, people obviously had no problem paying the $65 considering it sold out so fast. If nothing else keep the price you have it at and try to get yourself a better shipping rate to increase the profit.

I apologize for even bringing it up, I'll keep my opinions to myself next time.


----------



## boltfanindenver

Anyone in CO looking into using this? Wondering if we have enough people interested to get a pallet shipped out here.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## drenglish

Oh yeah! Thank you @LawnCareNut. Definitely smells like a different level of success.


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## stotea

Trying to garner enough interest in MN (or western WI) for a pallet. PM me or post in this thread if you're interested: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=7672&start=20#p153180.


----------



## TrialAndError

Anyone throw this down yet? If so, how are the results?


----------



## Jordan90

TrialAndError said:


> Anyone throw this down yet? If so, how are the results?


Put mine down today. Very light so we will see


----------



## Scagfreedom48z+

Got my 4 bags today and boy that smell......


----------



## Durso81

TrialAndError said:


> Anyone throw this down yet? If so, how are the results?


Threw some down today


----------



## stotea

Wait, I thought one of the selling points of carbon x was that all ingredients were wrapped into each granule. From the photos, it looks like certain ingredients are in some granules and other ingredients in different granules. Am I mistaken?


----------



## TN Hawkeye

stotea said:


> Wait, I thought one of the selling points of carbon x was that all ingredients were wrapped into each granule. From the photos, it looks like certain ingredients are in some granules and other ingredients in different granules. Am I mistaken?


@Pete1313 asks a question about it near the bottom of this page.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6290&hilit=Carbon&start=40


----------



## stotea

TN Hawkeye said:


> @Pete1313 asks a question about it near the bottom of this page.
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6290&hilit=Carbon&start=40


Got it. Thanks.


----------



## RDZed

Powhatan said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ryeguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe a dumb question, but: is there a reason to use a container? I've always just rolled up half used bags of fert.
> 
> 
> 
> humid environment
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I purchased a 5 gallon plastic HDPE rated bucket with a gamma seal plastic HDPE rated lid. The gamma seal is suppose to create a leak-proof and completely airtight seal.
Click to expand...

The Gamma Lid will be water/air tight. I use them on my docked boat all the time. Its a great product.

Pro Tip: Lube both O-Rings with Vaseline prior to long term use. They will fail in a year if they arent sufficiently hydrated.

Also, Heya neighbor. Im in Colonial Heights.


----------



## Powhatan

RDZed said:


> The Gamma Lid will be water/air tight. I use them on my docked boat all the time. Its a great product.
> 
> Pro Tip: Lube both O-Rings with Vaseline prior to long term use. They will fail in a year if they arent sufficiently hydrated.
> 
> Also, Heya neighbor. Im in Colonial Heights.


Thanks for the pro tip :thumbup:


----------



## NJ-lawn

Quick question......do you have to water in Carbon X ? Or is it more like Milo? Just thrower down


----------



## Powhatan

NJ-lawn said:


> Quick question......do you have to water in Carbon X ? Or is it more like Milo? Just thrower down


The label doesn't mention it, but @thegrassfactor wrote in another thread "I'm not aware of any nutritional product applied that does not need to be watered in. ... Should you water it? Yes. Is there a time frame? Ideally with 7 days. Will the results change if it extends to 3 weeks? Likely, but not in any way you could visually pinpoint."


----------



## Pete1313

NJ-lawn said:


> Quick question......do you have to water in Carbon X ? Or is it more like Milo? Just thrower down


With a high percentage of N being quick release urea, I would water it in after application.


----------



## daniel3507

Maybe someone can help explain this to me. Why do the bags have the small holes in the sides? I'm sure it has a purpose and it's a very minor thing but it's just annoying to find carbon x on the garage floor next to the bags.


----------



## thegrassfactor

daniel3507 said:


> Maybe someone can help explain this to me. Why do the bags have the small holes in the sides? I'm sure it has a purpose and it's a very minor thing but it's just annoying to find carbon x on the garage floor next to the bags.


Where did you get your bag? Those were experimental bags we initially tried using, but found the venting too large. Bags have to have a vent holes to allow for gas exchange. We switched to micro-perforations.


----------



## daniel3507

@thegrassfactor part of the Oklahoma group buy. I believe all the bags I received have them.


----------



## LawnSolo

If it helps, I just applied CX and mine came without big holes on the side (DIY - From GCI Turf) however the *plastic bag seems to be very weak*. When I lifted the bag to empty it into the spreader, the bottom corner (where I was grabbing it with other hand) broke and had Carbon X spilling all over the ground. Not a big deal, just be very careful when lifting it.


----------



## LawnSolo

First fertilizer application started yesterday


----------



## JSchoey

Anyone else apply this with a Scott's rotary spreader lately? Had some issues with some quite large white clumps(size of a dime or so) plugging the shut-off so that even when I had the handle released, fertilizer was still coming out. Bag sat in the garage the last week and we did have plenty of rain, but wouldn't think the moisture would get to it that quick. Maybe I just need a new spreader. Cheap Scott's edgeguard is what I'm using.


----------



## Austinite

Not scotts, but Earthway 2150. Didn't really think much of it as the agitator did a good job breaking it up. But yes, there are some clumps in there, I can see some spreaders not processing them.


----------



## LawnSolo

Found white clumps as well. They were easy to dissolve with the hand.


----------



## JSchoey

Yeah, I was able pull them out and crumble them as I saw them, but it was those that I didn't see that caused the spreader to jam up. Thanks guys.


----------



## corneliani

LawnSolo said:


> First fertilizer application started yesterday


@LawnSolo What setting did you use on your Earthway? I have that same unit.


----------



## krusej23

JSchoey said:


> Anyone else apply this with a Scott's rotary spreader lately? Had some issues with some quite large white clumps(size of a dime or so) plugging the shut-off so that even when I had the handle released, fertilizer was still coming out. Bag sat in the garage the last week and we did have plenty of rain, but wouldn't think the moisture would get to it that quick. Maybe I just need a new spreader. Cheap Scott's edgeguard is what I'm using.


Had the exact same issue but didn't realize it until I was done with my front yard and ended up dumping about 1.3lbs of nitrogen on the yard. The clump I had stuck in there was just a clump that was formed at the factory.


----------



## LawnSolo

corneliani said:


> LawnSolo said:
> 
> 
> 
> First fertilizer application started yesterday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @LawnSolo What setting did you use on your Earthway? I have that same unit.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late reply. I was gone for several weeks 

I initially started at 16 but was having hard time with even spray so I opened it to 18


----------



## corneliani

LawnSolo said:


> corneliani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LawnSolo said:
> 
> 
> 
> First fertilizer application started yesterday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @LawnSolo What setting did you use on your Earthway? I have that same unit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry for the late reply. I was gone for several weeks
> 
> I initially started at 16 but was having hard time with even spray so I opened it to 18
Click to expand...

No worries. I actually came to the same conclusion. Opened it up to 20 for a few passes but 18 seems to be a good compromise.


----------

