# TifGrand Level before and after: next steps?



## Meatpopsickle (Apr 7, 2020)

Have been lurking on this forum for quite some time. Had tifgrand sod installed a few years ago and was cutting at about 1". As with most sod installs the final product after a few months was fairly lumpy. My cultural practices in general were lacking; no herbicide. Almost no fert. Just regular mowing. It's a small lawn and over time with a large dog who loves rolling the grass it had only gotten worse. This winter I started to notice really dense matting. Grass in some areas was almost 3" long and just pushed over. Got to the point where my McClane would just float over the lawn and if I brought it any lower I started scalping really bad spots. Decided to have a go at dedicating the time to the lawn this year; starting with a little leveling. Scalp, aerate, 2 tons of sand and fert. Below are some before and after. Time between photos is 14 days.









Pretty happy with results after two weeks. There are still some low spots I need at address. My bigger concern are some of the smaller bare spots. At this point I am cutting at just under 1/2" (11mm) every other day to try and encourage lateral growth. Anything else I should or could be doing to continue pushing it sideways to fill those in quicker? At this point it's only been 3 weeks. Clearly I am a bit impatient. Have been keeping kids and dog off as long as I can but that can only last so long


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

Looking smooth. I think you'll like it at 1/2 vs 1

How have you fertilized so far? You can give it more N but there are tradeoffs. Mowing as you are will help 'train' it


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## Meatpopsickle (Apr 7, 2020)

Used whatever quick release I could find at the big box stores. 32-0-0 Scott's. Applied immediately following sand application. TBH I made a slight miscalculation and added nearly 2lbs of N instead of the targeted 1lb. I was hesitant to add another application soon bc of that but clearly it can take tons of Nitrogen.

If the goal is to thicken up and fill in faster what's else could I do? don't mind the constant mowing. Other than that what are the trade offs for more N? 
Any benefit to switching to a more balanced fertilizer next application? I know each lawn is different but in theory? I haven't performed a soil test yet. That's on my to do this year.


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

Off topic but how old is your lawn and how does it do in the shade you have?


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## Meatpopsickle (Apr 7, 2020)

Krs1 said:


> Off topic but how old is your lawn and how does it do in the shade you have?


Short answer is pretty good and this is the 3rd season with it. Attached is a picture at 830am and the troublesome section I'm about to describe. I have never actually measured how much sun I get but I get sun from 630-9 on the entire lawn. Shadows kick in in varying degrees around 930 and move in and out through the day. I have two large sissoos trees that I regularly trim back to allow more sun. By 6 o'clock I get shadow from a wall on 1/4 on the lawn. Also the two posts you see is where I have a sun sail(which I've taken down during this process). My only really troublesome are I have is in a corner that gets dense shade from the previously mentioned wall and the a shed. Too make matters worse last year I had an irrigation leak that went unnoticed while I was out of town leaving that section with standing water for almost a week. The result was complete die off of an already fairly thin section of lawn. Pictures attached. I think if you have at anything less than 6 hours of good strong light you'll notice it thinning and being more susceptible to damage/weeds etc.

I have tossed around the idea of trying to match color and texture of a perhaps more shade tolerant zoysia for that section but don't know if that would even work. Otherwise I may just re sod that section and baby it as much as possible.


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## bp2878 (Feb 13, 2019)

How low did you scalp?


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## Meatpopsickle (Apr 7, 2020)

bp2878 said:


> How low did you scalp?


I don't really know tbh. As low as the McClane would go. I'd say 1/4" maybe. I'm cutting with a JD 180b now at 11mm


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

In my experience, Tifgrand and shade can work if it is shifting shadows. What does not work is Tifgrand in shade and too much water. I would re grass that spot and give it another go.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Other thing I can tell you about Tifgrand is that it works well at heights of cut 10 mm or lower. A high height of cut is not where Tifgrand is optimal. High to me is anything over 12 mm.


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## Meatpopsickle (Apr 7, 2020)

Greendoc said:


> Other thing I can tell you about Tifgrand is that it works well at heights of cut 10 mm or lower. A high height of cut is not where Tifgrand is optimal. High to me is anything over 12 mm.


Sounds like a plan. I'll grab a few rolls and re lay in those sections. Do you suggest I go to 9mm? I have to say I'm a little nervous going lower despite reading over and over that the lower I go the thicker it should be in the end


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I consider 1/4" to be maintenance height on Tifgrand.


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## Meatpopsickle (Apr 7, 2020)

Greendoc said:


> I consider 1/4" to be maintenance height on Tifgrand.


Wow... Thanks for the feedback!
I felt like 11mm was pretty aggressive. Tomorrow is my day to cut. If I want to work my way down to let's say 6-7mm. Do you suggest just going for it in one shot? It does break the 1/3 rule but I almost feel as though getting there quickly before any sub canopy develops thicker and brown stems probably makes sense.

Do you see any increased water need the lower you go?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

You do not work your way down. Mow it low and maintain at that level. 1/3 rule creates excess density and thatch in reel low warm season grass. What you want to do is train grass to be thin short and slow growing.


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## Meatpopsickle (Apr 7, 2020)

Greendoc said:


> You do not work your way down. Mow it low and maintain at that level. 1/3 rule creates excess density and thatch in reel low warm season grass. What you want to do is train grass to be thin short and slow growing.


Thanks! I decided to just go with it today. This 6.5mm. Noticing some minor scalping. May have to bump it up to 7-8mm until I can do another leveling project.


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

Looks great!


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## Thor865 (Mar 26, 2018)

Hey fellow Tifgrander
- Lower the better, increases shade tolerance
- Invest in some PGR (I use tnex + Paclo), this will also promote more lateral growth to fill in areas 
- lower N applications more frequently


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## Meatpopsickle (Apr 7, 2020)

Krs1 said:


> Looks great!


Thanks it's a work in progress!


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## Meatpopsickle (Apr 7, 2020)

Thor865 said:


> Hey fellow Tifgrander
> - Lower the better, increases shade tolerance
> - Invest in some PGR (I use tnex + Paclo), this will also promote more lateral growth to fill in areas
> - lower N applications more frequently


Thanks for tips. I've looked into PGR. I know tnex is often used as alternative to some others bc it's generally less expensive. I'm assuming you use one or the other. Not both simultaneously. Preference of one over the other?

I also have started to comprehend GDDs. It's already 100+ every day here in Scottsdale. Night time temps in low 70s. (Although we are getting a short break here from extreme heat). I wonder if the frequent apps are worth the results?

I have a few localized spots that don't absorb moisture as quickly as others. I think I need to address those with some sort of soil conditioner sooner rather than later also.

Never understood lawn journals but as I'm writing it's starting to make sense. :lol:


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## drfous (May 9, 2020)

Looks like good progress.

I'm in the valley also and looking for a few rolls of tifgrand for a shady section I have.

Do you have a retailer that sells it locally? I don't need more than 5 or 6 rolls.

TIA!


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## Meatpopsickle (Apr 7, 2020)

drfous said:


> Looks like good progress.
> 
> I'm in the valley also and looking for a few rolls of tifgrand for a shady section I have.
> 
> ...


I used evergreen turf in chandler. I'm in south Scottsdale but they were super friendly. Last I checked it was $7.20 for a 2x5 roll and they didn't have a min order if you wanted to pick it up. Think they need 72 notice. I almost grabbed a few rolls in august but we had some rain which caused delays and then it got to the point where the season was nearing an end. I actually just messaged them a few hours ago. I'll keep you posted on what I find out.


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## drfous (May 9, 2020)

Meatpopsickle said:


> drfous said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like good progress.
> ...


Thank you, sir!

I'll give them a call on Monday.

Much appreciated.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Meatpopsickle said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> > You do not work your way down. Mow it low and maintain at that level. 1/3 rule creates excess density and thatch in reel low warm season grass. What you want to do is train grass to be thin short and slow growing.
> ...


I do not call it scalping unless I am hitting dirt. I would keep mowing at that low height.


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

Your handle ... :lol:


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## Meatpopsickle (Apr 7, 2020)

Greendoc said:


> Meatpopsickle said:
> 
> 
> > Greendoc said:
> ...


Thanks Greendoc! After looking more closely I actually think what I'm experiencing is rippling. Not sure what the technical term is but I have read at a high level FOC and how it relates to ground speed and the resulting quality of cut. Have also read that dropping HOC drastically could result in rippling. I don't know that dropping from 11mm - 6.5mm would cause this. Maybe it would. I was probably moving a bit faster that I normally would which I guess could also contribute to the rippling. For reference I have a 11 blade reel.

Think I will probably backlap and slow down a bit to see if that improves things.


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## Thor865 (Mar 26, 2018)

Meatpopsickle said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey fellow Tifgrander
> ...


I use both simultaneously. They are designed to work together.


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## Meatpopsickle (Apr 7, 2020)

drfous said:


> Meatpopsickle said:
> 
> 
> > drfous said:
> ...


DrFous,

Just heard back. No Tifgrand for another month. .79 cents a sq ft.


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## drfous (May 9, 2020)

Thanks for checking.

:thumbup:


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## bp2878 (Feb 13, 2019)

I just did my tifgrand this past weekend. I will be thrilled to get the same result as you in 3 weeks.


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## Meatpopsickle (Apr 7, 2020)

bp2878 said:


> I just did my tifgrand this past weekend. I will be thrilled to get the same result as you in 3 weeks.


Nice! You will.

There is so much knowledge here on this forum. I still have sections that are bare or thinner than others but, everyday I see it creeping it's way in. I think generally the point of leveling being a multi application progress is true. I still have spots that aren't perfect but heck of a lot better than before.


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