# Pre-M to late for NJ?



## Ryan1+2 (Oct 16, 2018)

I did lawn reno in the fall and want to put down a pre emergent for summer weeds. I have what look to be some grassy weeds coming up already. I can't tell if it is wheat (from the straw I used) fescue, annual rye or quackgrass. I know I will have to paint those with round up witch Is going to be a huge pain. Im in southeastern NJ and as of today the ground temp was 48. I was planning on using prodiamine since it is cheaper. Is it to late to put it down? Also, I have some thin areas where seed was washed away and a few that were hit with fungus so I will have to over seed them in fall. If I use prodimine now will it affect fall overseeing? I'm open to suggestions if there is a better product recommended.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Probably not too late, but your weather is more similar to the DMV area in many ways than the rest of the Northeast. Have Forsythia bloomed yet?


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Plug in your zip code here - http://www.gddtracker.net/?model=7&offset=0 should tell you where you stand. Also, as @Green said, look out for Forsythia blooming.


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## Ryan1+2 (Oct 16, 2018)

Haven't noticed any forsythia blooming yet. Looks like I'm not to late. I have never sprayed a pre emergent before but I have sprayed post emergent blanket. I have a 2 gallon pump sprayer with a brass fan tip. I'm sure it's not ideal but can it be done with that set up? Going to order prodimine tonight.


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## Ryan1+2 (Oct 16, 2018)

I still have to do my soil test yet also.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Ryan1+2 , is that the tip that sprays a cone? If so, not the ideal choice. Do you also have one that gives a flat spray?


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## Sfurunner13 (Feb 26, 2019)

I'm in PA directly across from Trenton. Definitely not too late. Forsythia haven't bloomed here and I believe soil temps are still in the mid 40s. For sure getting closer, I'd guess in a week or two things will be blooming.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Ryan if you would be more comfortable spreading granular you can look for Dimension, either at big box if you're lucky or Site One landscapes always carries this time of year.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

20k on a 2gallon sprayer will be a challenge. Even using a 0.5g/ksqft, that's still 5 refills and a lot of pumping.

You might still have time to pick up a granular dimension or prodiamine from a local vendor like Jconnelly suggests.

I listed some sources from home Depot/Lowe's here.
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7430&start=20#p134536


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## Ryan1+2 (Oct 16, 2018)

I'll look into the granular. I guess I just assumed it wasn't as good since I see alot spray. I'm hesitant on the scotts halts because I haven't heard of good results. I have two different site one stores within 20 minutes from me so maybe I will check them out. I really wanted to get that 4 Gallon battery backpack sprayer this year but budget is tight for the next month or so.


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## Tsmith (Aug 11, 2017)

It's never too late for Pre-M unless of course you're planning to seed in the fall but if not being a week or two late is better than not at all

I'm in south jersey and use March 31 in my plan for Pre-M but that's a soft date and actual drop date depends on the weather. I've noticed some grassy weeds along edges of sidewalk and some leafy weeds in beds moreso than years past around this time so I'm thinking about dropping this weekend as I'm a big believer in being early than late. I use Dimension from Site One which requires follow up apps.

Sunday is going to be 62 so might be a good day to drop and test the irrigation.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Ryan1+2 said:


> I'll look into the granular. I guess I just assumed it wasn't as good since I see alot spray. I'm hesitant on the scotts halts because I haven't heard of good results. I have two different site one stores within 20 minutes from me so maybe I will check them out. I really wanted to get that 4 Gallon battery backpack sprayer this year but budget is tight for the next month or so.


Spraying prodiamine is just cheaper. Like $0.50/ksqft cheap. But you need the sprayer equipment.


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## Ryan1+2 (Oct 16, 2018)

Site one has Lesco dimension. Two different types, 
. 10% 19-0-3 or .15% 13-0-0. The second one is only $2.62 more per 50lb bag at $32.78. I spoon feed reno through early fall then put down winterizer around 11/15. Not sure when I should apply more nitrogen. I plan on taking some core samples this week and sending out to Rutgers for testing.


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## bullet (Mar 4, 2019)

The Lawn Care Nut has a video about this, and he pretty much says it's never too late. The company he used to work for they would apply Pre-m throughout the entire month of March.






As an individual, you have the ability to pick the perfect timing. For me personally, I think the best time would have been last Wednesday (3/13) in VA. However, due to shitty weather and other unexpected circumstances, I wasn't able to. :x

Crabgrass:


Weed Flowering:


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## Tsmith (Aug 11, 2017)

Ryan1+2 said:


> Site one has Lesco dimension. Two different types,
> . 10% 19-0-3 or .15% 13-0-0. The second one is only $2.62 more per 50lb bag at $32.78. I spoon feed reno through early fall then put down winterizer around 11/15. Not sure when I should apply more nitrogen. I plan on taking some core samples this week and sending out to Rutgers for testing.


They also sell .10 and .15 Dimension without N (0-0-7) which most prefer especially in spring to avoid pushing top growth with N


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## Ryan1+2 (Oct 16, 2018)

Green said:


> @Ryan1+2 , is that the tip that sprays a cone? If so, not the ideal choice. Do you also have one that gives a flat spray?


It is a flat spray not a cone. I might have to try it because all pre emergent sold locally have nitrogen.


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## Ryan1+2 (Oct 16, 2018)

I guess today is my lucky day. I asked the landscape company that we use at work if he knew of a local Landscape Supply where I could buy granular prodiamine or dimension without nitrogen. He said the place he gets it you need a license and an account but he would be happy to pick some up for me at cost. Asked which one I prefer. Now that I have that choice does it matter which one I go with?


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## Tc200 (Jun 28, 2018)

What you may be seeing is weeds from the random 70* days we had last week heating up the ground near sidewalks and edges. The rest of your lawn is probably well under the magical 55 mark, heck I even still have a couple shady spots that feel frozen.

Prodiamine seems to be preferred for availability and price, i've been using this thread as a reference for granular prodiamine: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1907

It seems the general strategy is to time the pre-m wearing off with your fall seeding, or if you have kbg and don't need to seed you hit it with more pre-m. I also get the impression that overshooting slightly is better then undershooting since the process of preparing for seed will likely break any remaining pre-m barrier (and if you really mess up the app you can aerate and scarify heavily).

Looks like you are in the window for pre-m this weekend, based on your profile. I am a little further north of you in Asbury NJ and was originally planning on first weekend in April, but the weather seems to be warming up faster and next weekend is my new target. I am going to apply 45 lbs of .42% Prodiamine 0-0-7 to my 10k sq.ft. which works out to .82 lb ai / Acre. Based on the chart in the above thread .75 lb ai / Acre is 4 months of control and 1.00 lb ai / Acre is 5 months, with .82 i should get just a bit more than 4 months which will let me seed in mid August with application March 30th (~4.5 months). As a bonus, I can use the remainder of the 50lb bag on the sections that don't need seed without going over the yearly max.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Ryan1+2 said:


> I guess today is my lucky day. I asked the landscape company that we use at work if he knew of a local Landscape Supply where I could buy granular prodiamine or dimension without nitrogen. He said the place he gets it you need a license and an account but he would be happy to pick some up for me at cost. Asked which one I prefer. Now that I have that choice does it matter which one I go with?


@Ryan1+2, I would get Dimension 0.15%, 0-0-7 if you have a choice. I would get enough for 4.5 lbs per 1,000 square feet, plus maybe a bit of extra. It comes in 50-lb bags. Brand does not matter.

If 0-0-7 is not available, get the one with the lowest Nitrogen percentage, like under 18% N ideally. That one can be applied as a split app, once after full green-up (1.5 weeks from now? not sure about your area), and again 2 months later, 2.25 lbs per thousand each time. Definitely get 0.15% or even higher percent (e.g. 0.167%) if it has Nitrogen.

If only 0.10% is available you will need 1.5x the amount in lbs. I would not get 0.10% with Nitrogen; you will be applying way too much fertilizer, even with split apps, and spending a lot more money as well.

-First choice: 0.15% 0-0-7
-Second choice: 0.10% 0-0-7
-Third choice: 0.167% 0-0-7
-Fourth choice: 0.167% with lowest N possible
-5th choice: 0.15% with lowest N possible
-6th choice: 0.10% with lowest N possible

His place should have one of the first three.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

@Green you are an absolute gem man. Consistently above and beyond advice.

@Ware I don't frequent the warm season forums but @Green and @g-man are the stars of this Cool Season group of members.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Thanks @Jconnelly6b! Glad we have them!


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## Ryan1+2 (Oct 16, 2018)

Definitely laid it out nice and simple for me. Thank you. Now if I can only the landscaper to get back to me. Might have got my hopes up too soon.
I found another possible option but wanted to check to see if anybody as used it.
Jonathan Green crabgrass and Weed Preventer. I can get bag online for $65. 36 lb bag claims that covers 15000 square feet and has dimension in it. No fertilizer just 7% potash. I looked on their website and the bag label but it does not list percentage of dimension. It's raining today so maybe landscaper won't be so busy and will call me back, keeping my fingers crossed.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Ryan1+2 said:


> Definitely laid it out nice and simple for me. Thank you. Now if I can only the landscaper to get back to me. Might have got my hopes up too soon.
> I found another possible option but wanted to check to see if anybody as used it.
> Jonathan Green crabgrass and Weed Preventer. I can get bag online for $65. 36 lb bag claims that covers 15000 square feet and has dimension in it. No fertilizer just 7% potash. I looked on their website and the bag label but it does not list percentage of dimension. It's raining today so maybe landscaper won't be so busy and will call me back, keeping my fingers crossed.


I've used it. It's not a true 15,000 square ft. bag...that is for the lower rate. It's 0.125% AI (at least it was last I checked), so you'll need to multiply the 0.15% rates by 1.2. So, instead of 4.5 lbs/M to last you from the third week of March to mid August, you'll need 5.4 lbs/M to last the same duration. It's a good product, just a bit more expensive because the bags are smaller and the name brand which you're paying for. But it has the better type of Potassium (Sulfate) in it (at least it did when I used it). The only issue I had (and this was with the particular batch I used a few years ago) was that it clogged my Scotts spreader and a bunch came out in one place. I later learned not to use Scotts spreaders with heavier duty materials...they also can damage them easily because they're flimsy. I use the Earthway for the heavier stuff and don't have issues.

Technically, Potash is a fertilizer, too (N-P-K). But I know what you meant...without Nitrogen.


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## Ryan1+2 (Oct 16, 2018)

Found some at site one. Guy on phone said it's . 13% 0-0-7. I guess that will be good.


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## Ryan1+2 (Oct 16, 2018)

Pick it up... here's a picture of bag label.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Great! 0.13% is about the same as 0.125%, so the rate will be esentially the same...so about 5 lbs per thousand for a history of heavy crabgrass pressure, if you're applying now or next week and want it to last until mid August.

I previously mentioned slightly higher rates because I thought you were looking to apply a bit earlier. But as more time goes on, you need to use a bit less. Rule of thumb is about 1.15 lbs per thousand per month of coverage for the 0.13% stuff. This is from my own experience in the Northeast. This is for heavy crabgrass pressure. It may be different in the South where it's hotter longer...they may need even more.

I know my numbers are different than the label, but it's what works for me. The numbers on your label in the left column are the low rate and aren't the best for heavy crabgrass pressure or longer durations. Don't worry about going over the yearly max, as it's over 10 lbs, I believe. That won't happen. Some labels also show medium and heavy rates in addition to low.

You're also almost transition zone based on location, if that helps...so I hope you picked up enough for the 5lb rate.


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## Ryan1+2 (Oct 16, 2018)

Sounds good. The sales guy at the desk also recommended 5 lbs per thousand for a single application. I bought 200lbs so I should have plenty. I noticed last night that my forsythia is just now starting to open buds to flower. I plan on putting it down Saturday. Sunday we are supposed to get rain showers.


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## Ryan1+2 (Oct 16, 2018)

Tested soil temp again today. Still between 48-50. We are suppose to get a couple warm days in a row next week so putting it down this weekend will probably be just in the nick of time.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Sounds like the timing will be absolutely perfect!


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## Kissfromnick (Mar 25, 2019)

I just apply Dimension 0.15% 5-6 lb per 1k sqf last weekend didnt have any rains yet. Can still airate lawn or better to wait till fall?


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## Sfurunner13 (Feb 26, 2019)

If you aerate now you'll break your soil layer rendering your pre emergent useless. I'd wait till fall to aerate.


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## Tc200 (Jun 28, 2018)

To piggy back on @Kissfromnick question, would it make sense to dethatch before throwing down pre-m to get better soil contact or is it too early? My lawn has a few areas that look pretty dense with thatch/moss.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

I don't think spring dethatch is a bad idea. Just be sure you're not ripping out grass plants roots and all because the soil is so soft.

I would start with the wheels down (tines up high) and lower as needed.


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## MassHole (Jun 27, 2018)

Jconnelly6b said:


> wheels down (tines up high)


that's the way i like to.... mulch


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

MassHole said:


> Jconnelly6b said:
> 
> 
> > wheels down (tines up high)
> ...


 :lol:


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## Tc200 (Jun 28, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> MassHole said:
> 
> 
> > Jconnelly6b said:
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

MassHole said:


> Jconnelly6b said:
> 
> 
> > wheels down (tines up high)
> ...


well done, well done :beer:


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