# Can you only get N-Ext Humic12 through LCN and CGI?



## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

I was looking to order this, and per the N-Ext site, it reads that you can only buy it from two affiliates if you're a DIY homeowner, and that's Lawn Care Nut and GCI Turf Academy.

And in order to buy it, you have to buy other products as well as part of a 'kit'.

For those of you who use it, was this your experience?


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

turfnsurf said:


> I was looking to order this, and per the N-Ext site, it reads that you can only buy it from two affiliates if you're a DIY homeowner, and that's Lawn Care Nut and GCI Turf Academy.
> 
> And in order to buy it, you have to buy other products as well as part of a 'kit'.
> 
> For those of you who use it, was this your experience?


Yes, this was my experience as well. I got the 5 gallon (2 x 2.5 gal) mix and match and went with RGS and Humic12.


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

@CarolinaCuttin I see that on LCN's site. So this is humic acid and sea kelp. I read about that and this is the combo for me.

I believe in another thread, you told me that you apply about 3-6 ounces 1-2X/mo. Is this on your gardening area or plants only...or throughout your whole lawn?

Also, do you mind sharing what else you use? I am thinking about using elemental sulfur or ammonium sulfate fertilizer to lower my pH (not sure which is better for my scenario just yet)


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

turfnsurf said:


> @CarolinaCuttin I see that on LCN's site. So this is humic acid and sea kelp. I read about that and this is the combo for me.
> 
> I believe in another thread, you told me that you apply about 3-6 ounces 1-2X/mo. Is this on your gardening area or plants only...or throughout your whole lawn?
> 
> Also, do you mind sharing what else you use? I am thinking about using elemental sulfur or ammonium sulfate fertilizer to lower my pH (not sure which is better for my scenario just yet)


I use Humic12 and RGS during the cooler months because Humic12 is a soil conditioner and RGS is a root growth stimulant. I work on my soil and rooting during the fall and early winter because that is when cool season grasses grow most of their roots. Humic12 can be applied all year round but I usually just do it from October to March tank mixed with RGS. I think I heard John Perry who created the products say that RGS was designed for spring and fall applications. I use these just on the lawn.

I use 4 main fertilizers for nutrients (all liquids):

27-0-2 (Urea Ammonium Nitrate)
15-0-0 (Urea)
20-20-20 (Southern Ag with blue dye)
Micrel Total 5-0-0 (micronutrients including 6% iron)

I use other foliar biostimulants, wetting agents, etc. but the main thing is NPK + micros. Then we can start adding soil and foliar biostimulants, soil conditions, and wetting agents if we want to go all out after getting a solid base.

Let me know if there are any products you'd like more info on or if I can help you with anything!


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

CarolinaCuttin said:


> turfnsurf said:
> 
> 
> > @CarolinaCuttin I see that on LCN's site. So this is humic acid and sea kelp. I read about that and this is the combo for me.
> ...


@CarolinaCuttin I have a few questions if you don't mind (I am organizing my checklist)

1. How frequently do you fertilize? I live in WI, so my temps are different than yours. I am trying to get a sense of what is the window of months that I should apply these, as well as how frequently.

2. Why two forms of urea? While I realize one gives you a ratio of potassium, they're both largely nitrogren fertilizers, yes?

3. Southern Ag is the dye for when you spray with a surfactant right?

4. Is surfactant choice important, or can you pretty much grab whatever?

5. Micrel is chelated micronutrients like Feature, right?


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

1. I generally spray once a week during the growing season. I decide what to put in based upon a lot of factors, but I generally have fertilizer in the tank with every spray. I don't add nitrogen in summer except with other products that have a bit in it, not really on purpose. No more than 0.2 lbs N/M per month during the summer. Micrel one every two weeks at 3 oz/M. 20-20-20 based upon soil tests.

2. I use urea ammonium nitrate in the cooler months because urea alone is less effective below 50° F. This is because an enzyme (urease) that is responsible for converting urea to ammonia isn't very active before this temperature. The ammonium nitrate in the 27-0-2 is a readily available form that isn't temperature dependent.

3. No, Southern Ag is the maker of the 20-20-20 but they dye it blue which might make it slightly easier to see when sprayed. The blue dye I use is Turf Mark blue by BASF.

4. I use Southern Ag's non ionic surfactant. It's important to use a surfactant but it's not a big deal which one. Use one labels for herbicides or foliar nutrient sprays.

5. Yes, but Micrel is a complete micro package chelated with organic acids not synthetics like EDTA or HEDTA which inhibit foliar absorption.


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

@CarolinaCuttin I understand why you use RGS during cooler months. I have cool season grass as well.

Why do you wait until cooler months with the Humic12?


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

turfnsurf said:


> @CarolinaCuttin I understand why you use RGS during cooler months. I have cool season grass as well.
> 
> Why do you wait until cooler months with the Humic12?


I just go ahead and tank mix it with RGS and spray together that way I run out at the same time. There is absolutely no reason why it can't be sprayed whenever. Because of the way it has to be ordered I use the same rates and always together so I can place a 2 jug order and it matches up with my product use.


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

CarolinaCuttin said:


> turfnsurf said:
> 
> 
> > @CarolinaCuttin I understand why you use RGS during cooler months. I have cool season grass as well.
> ...


Ah gotcha. Just wanted to make sure.

How do you spray for weeds? What's your regimen like for that? I am about to buy a backpack sprayer. I have thistle and some other weeds (that Naturescape has done a bad job of abating this year), and I am deciding between glysophate and/or tricolpyr.

Not sure if you have a weeds schedule, but if you do, do you use these? If so, do you mix them? I've read that some people mix them, but I can't see why. I am trying to figure out how to spray them without harming my lawn. I know glysophate is nonselective, but I would imagine I could still spot spray with my sprayer.

I also was looking for a frequency schedule for that too.


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

@turfnsurf The only product that goes down on a schedule is pre-emergent. Most people here use Barricade or the generic prodiamine. Barricade will give you up to 8 months of protection at the max rate, but it doesn't cover every single weed, some still make it through. I use Dimension (dithiopyr) because it covers more weeds even though it only provides 3 months of coverage. I keep pre emergent coverage 9 months out of the year so I can overseed in the fall.

Any weeds that sneak through can usually be handled with a three way herbicide (dicamba, 2,4-D and the third ingredient varies, but it's for broadleaf weeds and doesn't kill most grasses). The big problem is Poa annua in the fall/early winter and 3 apps of Prograss (ethofumesate) can eliminate that problem but even generic ethofumesate is expensive. I have not broken down and bought any ethofumesate but I don't have problems with Poa, I only have a few plants here and there.

The big picture is have pre-emergents down in the right seasons and buy selective weed killers based on your specific weed problems.


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

CarolinaCuttin said:


> @turfnsurf The only product that goes down on a schedule is pre-emergent. Most people here use Barricade or the generic prodiamine. Barricade will give you up to 8 months of protection at the max rate, but it doesn't cover every single weed, some still make it through. I use Dimension (dithiopyr) because it covers more weeds even though it only provides 3 months of coverage. I keep pre emergent coverage 9 months out of the year so I can overseed in the fall.
> 
> Any weeds that sneak through can usually be handled with a three way herbicide (dicamba, 2,4-D and the third ingredient varies, but it's for broadleaf weeds and doesn't kill most grasses). The big problem is Poa annua in the fall/early winter and 3 apps of Prograss (ethofumesate) can eliminate that problem but even generic ethofumesate is expensive. I have not broken down and bought any ethofumesate but I don't have problems with Poa, I only have a few plants here and there.
> 
> The big picture is have pre-emergents down in the right seasons and buy selective weed killers based on your specific weed problems.


@CarolinaCuttin that was really helpful. I had Dimension and prodiamine on the list, but I wasn't sure what was preferential...those or the two I mentioned.

I probably could get away with Dimension given how short our warm temperatures are. So ultimately a good pre emergent application should render you not having to apply post emergent then...is that the thought?

A few other questions:

1. What do you mean when you say that Barricade gives you 8 months of protection "at the max rate". Are you talking about multiple applications?

2. I am not sure what preemergent that my landscape company used because I clearly have thistle. Is there a post emergent in particular that I might want to consider? If not, I can probably ask someone at the SiteOne down the street from me.

3. How many apps of pre emergent is best practice? I think my landscape company only did one. Not sure, but next year, I wont have them.

4. Have you noticed that weeds that you've properly sprayed one year come back again next year? The area that I have a lot of thistle at right now was also there last summer. Last year and this year, I just have mowed over them while I've been learning. While I intend on ditching the landscape company to do it myself, I am kinda irked that whatever they're _supposed_ to be abating, they aren't.

5. Do you tend to mix any post emergents with your fertilizers/soil amendment apps, or do you tend to do the post emergent apps separately?

There was one other question I had, but I can't remember. When I do, I will post it. Thanks!


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

@turfnsurf

1. The label gives you a range of possible application rates, at the top end of the range you are protected for 8 months. Lower rates give short windows of protection.

2. A three way product will probably take care of thistle. Multiple applications may be necessary.

3. It depends on your product and rate. For prodiamine it might only be one big dose, for me it's 3 apps of Dimension.

4. Weeds can definitely come back either from seed that is in the ground (annual weeds) or root material that lays dormant in the winter (perennial weeds).

5. Do not mix any fungicides or herbicides with humic acid. Humic acid can absorb the active ingredient and render it less effective. Feel free to add fertilizer to post emergent sprays.


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

I remember now @CarolinaCuttin:

1. Are there any other soil conditioners that you've used or would consider? I was watching a youtube video and that's how I first heard the term...so when you let me know that Humic12 is one, I wanted to also find out if there were others (just to compare)

2. Do you have a schedule for when you tend to fertilize? What determines timing? Temperature? Time of month?

By this, I mean the months that you do it and how frequently that you do it. I have the schedule for the Humic12 and RGS down. Someone told me to think of a schedule along the lines of Mother's Day, Memorial Day, 4th of July, and Oct...but I am not sure.

3. Can you share a bit of information about when to use fast vs slow release fertilizers?


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

1. There are tons of different humic acids and sea kelp extracts. They are popular products because they work, don't feel like you need to buy a certain brand. I trust the N-Ext products and that's why I use them but I know there are tons of other great products out there. As far as soil products, I use Soaker Plus which is a wetting agent that aids in water retention. Use less water and prevent dry areas. I need it in SC, it gets hot and without it the Tall Fescue will be gone, but it isn't necessary for everyone.

2. Temperature, time of the year, grass quality and appearance, etc. I don't put stuff down just to do it, it's always for a purpose, so the nitrogen goes down when I need it to maintain growth or color and the micronutrient mix goes down every 2 weeks or so because that's how long the color bump sticks around. Play around with it and you'll develop a feel for what your grass needs and in what quantities to look it's best. Less is usually more, no need to pound it with tons of fertilizer over and over again.

3. I only use fast release sources because I'm out spraying every week during the growing season, so I can get small doses of anything I want out there every week. Use slow release when you want to throw something down for a month or two and forget about it. The only problem with granular slow release fertilizers is that they can get moved around by mowers even if you water them in because some don't break down very fast. I love to spray so I'm always using small quantities of quick release fertilizer so I have maximum control over how much and how often.


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

@CarolinaCuttin this has really helped me. I wanted a little bit of clarification on the apps.

I do a little bit of vegetable gardening, but when it gets warm, we buy annuals in the form of potted plants as well as some flowers. I will also be planting hydrangeas.

1. I have listed that you apply Humic12 and RGS once a week. I don't recall asking how frequently you apply the micronutrients. Is this part of your fert app? If so, it looks like you apply the nitrogen once a week. What about the P and K?

2. I know you can't mix Humic12 and RGS with herbicides or fungicides. How many apps do you use when applying fertilizer, micronutrients, and post emergent sprays?

I can reason why your plants don't die, since the post emergent is selective. What I can't reason is how fertilizer or nutrients don't offset or minimize the impact of post emergent sprays on the weeds.

3. When it comes to fertilizing the lawn, is the idea that I am foliar feeding the lawn with the same app that I am feeding my plants and shrubs (plus the surfactant)? This question is to verify if my lawn fert should be separate from fertilizing my roses, hydrangeas, potted plants, shrubs, and flowers.


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

1. I usually do RGS, Humic12, Micrel Total, Nitrogen or 20-20-20 all in once spray once every two weeks unless it's hot or freezing, then it's just Micrel Total as far as fertility. P and K is spaced out evenly during the growing season to try and correct soil deficiencies as indicated by a soil test.

2. Are you asking how many separate applications? I always do fertilizer with RGS and Humic12 if it's during the period of the year where I use both of those products.

Fertilizer actually helps plants absorb the herbicide, the herbicide will kill the plant no matter what fertilizer you mix in there.

3. I'm only knowledgeable when it comes to turfgrass, I don't know at all what the right way to foliar feed all the ornamental plants would be. I don't see why spraying the turf and the ornamentals with the same mix would hurt anything, but it might not be optimal nutrition for the ornamentals.


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

CarolinaCuttin said:
 

> 1. I usually do RGS, Humic12, Micrel Total, Nitrogen or 20-20-20 all in once spray once every two weeks unless it's hot or freezing, then it's just Micrel Total as far as fertility. P and K is spaced out evenly during the growing season to try and correct soil deficiencies as indicated by a soil test.
> 
> 2. Are you asking how many separate applications? I always do fertilizer with RGS and Humic12 if it's during the period of the year where I use both of those products.
> 
> Fertilizer actually helps plants absorb the herbicide, the herbicide will kill the plant no matter what fertilizer you mix in there.


For #2, I knew the wording would be difficult. What I was asking is when it comes to applying fertilizer, micronutrients, and post emergent sprays, which of the below represents how you apply them?

A. 3 separate applications (one for fert, one for micronutrients, and one for post emergent sprays)
B. 2 separate applications (one for fert+micronutrients, and one for post emergent sprays)
C. 2 separate applications (one for fert+ post emergent sprays, and one for micronutrients,)
D. 1 application (fert+micronutrients+post emergent sprays all in a singular application)

Since you outlined that you combine everything (without referencing a post emergent) it sounds like my most efficient options would be to do either fert+micro+Humic/RGS and do any post emergents separately, or fert+micro+post emergent and do Humic/RGS separately.

Do I have that right?



> 3. I'm only knowledgeable when it comes to turfgrass, I don't know at all what the right way to foliar feed all the ornamental plants would be. I don't see why spraying the turf and the ornamentals with the same mix would hurt anything, but it might not be optimal nutrition for the ornamentals.


I think there may have been a bit of confusion on my end. I've only fertilized my lawn once or twice since I've bought my home, and I did that granularly with a spreader. When you and others educated me on the concept of foliar feeding, I interpreted that process as meaning that one is using a liquid fertilizer and ideally using a surfactant as well, so that the nutrients stick to the plant. I think my assumption was that this concept applies to lawns _and_ ornamentals. If this process is generally associated with lawns, then I am set straight and I will look into ornamentals separately and that would resolve this question.

* One other one (and hopefully this is it)

I am just reviewing my notes. I know that the applicaton rate of anything I use needs to be in accordance with the label. i appreciate you sharing though that with nitrogen, I shouldn't be applying more than 0.2 lbs/month.

I just wanted to confirm if you agree/disagree with what I have listed as _times of the year to apply_ and the _frequency rate_. I am mostly looking to note a general rule of thumb but please correct what I may have wrong.

N-P-K: every 2 weeks and during growing season. (I understand this to be after the preemergent cycles out and up until summer)

Micronutrients: same as above

Humic12/RGS: once a week during growing season


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

@turfnsurf You can do NPK, micros, and post emergent all at once in the same tank, the only caveat is you can't mix humic acids with the herbicides, so spray the RGS and Humic12 separates.

You can absolutely use foliar feeding to supply nutrients to a wide variety of plants. It works great in general. I don't know what kind of a response you will get if you have a leaf with a thick waxy cuticle like a holly, I suspect the nutrients won't be absorbed very well because the waxy cuticle might be covering the ectodesmata (nanopores) through which the leaves absorb nutrients.

No more than 0.2 lbs/1000 per month in the summer, in the spring and fall you can go much higher, up to 1 lb of nitrogen (but you'll be mowing a lot).

Everything you listed as far as frequency is perfectly fine, I just want to note that you can feel free to apply micronutrients even during the summer as long as they don't contain much nitrogen.


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

@CarolinaCuttin I want to thank you for everything you've helped me with.

Based on my yard size and needs, it's looking like I am going to pull the trigger on either the Flowzone Tornado, Chapin 24V, and the My4Sons. Any thoughts? I posted within someone else's thread:

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18762&p=280738#p280738

If you prefer to respond here, then my post was this:



> Since the OP pulled the trigger, I wanted to ask a question about these options.
> 
> I was already looking at the Chapin and My4S. I'm not considering the first one at all because of price and this is will be my first sprayer. I would like to throw that FlowZone in the discussion.
> 
> ...


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

@turfnsurf I think the 24V Chapin is popular with a lot of members here. I use a manual pump backpack because it's cheaper, easier to clean, and fewer things can go wrong, but if my yard were much bigger I would definitely look to eliminate all the pumping.


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

CarolinaCuttin said:


> I use 4 main fertilizers for nutrients (all liquids):
> 
> 27-0-2 (Urea Ammonium Nitrate)
> 15-0-0 (Urea)
> ...


@CarolinaCuttin why do you use 3 different fertilizers? I see two lack phosphorus.


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

@turfnsurf 27-0-2 when it's cold outside (not much foliar uptake, nitrates are easily absorbed through the roots. 15-0-0 urea during the growing season, a fabulous foliar fertilizer. 20-20-20 when I need to bump up P and/or K in the soil, I do this based upon routine soil testing. Micrel total for color because of micronutrient content.


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

CarolinaCuttin said:


> @turfnsurf 27-0-2 when it's cold outside (not much foliar uptake, nitrates are easily absorbed through the roots. 15-0-0 urea during the growing season, a fabulous foliar fertilizer. 20-20-20 when I need to bump up P and/or K in the soil, I do this based upon routine soil testing. Micrel total for color because of micronutrient content.


Why are you using dye with your Southern Ag fert? Is that because you are also spraying for weeds during this app?


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

turfnsurf said:


> CarolinaCuttin said:
> 
> 
> > @turfnsurf 27-0-2 when it's cold outside (not much foliar uptake, nitrates are easily absorbed through the roots. 15-0-0 urea during the growing season, a fabulous foliar fertilizer. 20-20-20 when I need to bump up P and/or K in the soil, I do this based upon routine soil testing. Micrel total for color because of micronutrient content.
> ...


Where I buy it, it's the same price with or without dye, so o buy it with dye so I don't have to add as much indicator dye when spraying it. It's a very small savings, so don't feel obligated to buy one or the other.


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## VALawnNoob (Jun 9, 2020)

Have you gotten a soil test? Don't worry so much about how others are applying fert when you don't know what your soil/lawn needs. Get that first, analyze and apply accordingly.

As for GCF products, you can't really screw up. Just use some common sense and don't apply in extreme amounts or temperatures. Do you like to do lawn work? If you are a nut and like to do things once or more a week, then just spoon feed the GCF stuff (rotate the products) at minimum (or half) rates and slowly let it build up. It is a marathon with improving the soil so take your time and do it in smaller doses.

If you want to save $, you can look at Kelp4Less and mix your own. I have gone down that path and likely won't continue due to the hassle. From a price perspective it is worth it but from ease of use and even effectiveness, I plan on just moving forward with GCF and occasionally supplement an ingredient or two w/ K4L.


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

VALawnNoob said:


> Have you gotten a soil test? Don't worry so much about how others are applying fert when you don't know what your soil/lawn needs. Get that first, analyze and apply accordingly.
> 
> As for GCF products, you can't really screw up. Just use some common sense and don't apply in extreme amounts or temperatures. Do you like to do lawn work? If you are a nut and like to do things once or more a week, then just spoon feed the GCF stuff (rotate the products) at minimum (or half) rates and slowly let it build up. It is a marathon with improving the soil so take your time and do it in smaller doses.
> 
> If you want to save $, you can look at Kelp4Less and mix your own. I have gone down that path and likely won't continue due to the hassle. From a price perspective it is worth it but from ease of use and even effectiveness, I plan on just moving forward with GCF and occasionally supplement an ingredient or two w/ K4L.


I have gotten a soil test. I bought my products and waited for the test before I did anything. My pH is 7.7!!! The jug says 3-9 oz per 1000 ft. Because of how high my pH is, I was originally thinking to go the max route of 9 oz per 1,000 = 36 oz. But you're thinking otherwise? How frequently do you apply humic acid?


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## VALawnNoob (Jun 9, 2020)

I have bad clay soil that was neglected for years without any amendments or topsoil / compost top dressing. I have compact and drainage issues as well. This year I have applied Humic DG, Humichar and smaller doses of NEXT products every 2 weeks. It has gotten significantly better. I will not buy Anderson's Humic anymore as it was crazy expensive in comparison. Almost all GCF products have Humic so as long as I continue to spoon feed it will be fine.


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

VALawnNoob said:


> I have bad clay soil that was neglected for years without any amendments or topsoil / compost top dressing. I have compact and drainage issues as well. This year I have applied Humic DG, Humichar and smaller doses of NEXT products every 2 weeks. It has gotten significantly better. I will not buy Anderson's Humic anymore as it was crazy expensive in comparison. *Almost all GCF products have Humic so as long as I continue to spoon feed it will be fine.*


I've seen this term "spoon-feed" a lot on this board. What does that mean? Thanks for sharing your experience. I am really excited about improving my soil.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Just means feed the lawn in small dosages on a set schedule. For example instead of applying 1 pound of N all at once, spoon feeding would be doing 1/4 pound per week. In the end you still get 1 lb for the month.


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

ksturfguy said:


> Just means feed the lawn in small dosages on a set schedule. For example instead of applying 1 pound of N all at once, spoon feeding would be doing 1/4 pound per week. In the end you still get 1 lb for the month.


Oh ok great. That's what I am doing. Thanks


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## VALawnNoob (Jun 9, 2020)

One reason is I feel like HA applying at a single heavy dose has diminishing returns. I feel like gradual application in the minimal amounts work better for at least my soil. Besides, it is fun and it gets me to get out on the yard to do stuff.


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