# Poa supina vs fine fescue in full shade.



## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

Thought people would be curious about the difference in appearance.

This is not as thick as I'd like, but it's getting there. I'm a big fan of the poa supina.


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## Ylli (Sep 24, 2018)

Bought some Poa Supina for use in a shady area this fall. I like to 'try it out' before I use it in the yard, so I tossed a bit in a solo cup with some potting soil.

This stuff seems to want to grow to a height of about 1 - 1.5 inches and then stops growing. Stays green, but doesn't get any taller. Is this to be expected for Poa Supina or am I doing something wrong?


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

Ylli said:


> Bought some Poa Supina for use in a shady area this fall. I like to 'try it out' before I use it in the yard, so I tossed a bit in a solo cup with some potting soil.
> 
> This stuff seems to want to grow to a height of about 1 - 1.5 inches and then stops growing. Stays green, but doesn't get any taller. Is this to be expected for Poa Supina or am I doing something wrong?


I have no idea why yours is so short! I cut mine at 2" because that's as high as my big lawn tractor will grow, but while I was on vacation and my husband broke the lawn tractor, it got to 4" easily.


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

I'm just about to cut it again...this is all a swathe of poa supina.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

I have never grown it, but I was under the impression that Supina does not like to be cut too high. You might try maintining at ~2 inches or less and see how it does.


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## hammerhead (May 14, 2019)

Poa Supina loves to be cut short. It spreads very aggressively with stolons and chokes out most other grasses. This guy on on youtube (sorry it is german) had only about 10% Supina in his mix, now the Supina took over about 90% of his lawn . His usual HOC is under 1 inch.

I personally do not like the color, but it might definitely be worth to look into for shady areas. Just keep in mind that it will probably take over the whole lawn at some point. Another thing is that in sunnier areas Supina has to be irrigated a lot more frequently (a few times per week) because of its very shallow root system compared to ***, PRG, or FF (and of course TTFF).


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

bernstem said:


> I have never grown it, but I was under the impression that Supina does not like to be cut too high. You might try maintining at ~2 inches or less and see how it does.


If you maintain it under 2", all you see are rhizomes. Will it get over that and look less rhizomy?

I'm from Texas, and to be a "lawn" is still basically St augustinegrass, which HATES being cut short. So I've got a prejudice against short, I'll admit!

And I LOVE that it's spread. That area was a mixed stand until this year. This year, it choked out everything else. I'd like to not that it was FULLY excavated to install a geothermal system, so that grass is growing on what was subsoil just 5 years ago. I have a massive seed store of weeds because I'm in a semi-wild area, which means that I had more plantains than grass for a few years, as I wasn't really doing anything with it after throwing the seed down. I only started using selective weedkiller last year, but the poa s. has gotten thick enough to out-compete the plantains gradually. This is the first year where it has formed basically a monostand there. I didn't buy enough to do my whole yard, but I'm really encouraged by the places I did now that it's really taking off and am buying more.


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

hammerhead said:


> Poa Supina loves to be cut short. It spreads very aggressively with stolons and chokes out most other grasses. This guy on on youtube (sorry it is german) had only about 10% Supina in his mix, now the Supina took over about 90% of his lawn . His usual HOC is under 1 inch.
> 
> I personally do not like the color, but it might definitely be worth to look into for shady areas. Just keep in mind that it will probably take over the whole lawn at some point. Another thing is that in sunnier areas Supina has to be irrigated a lot more frequently (a few times per week) because of its very shallow root system compared to KBG, PRG, or FF (and of course TTFF).


Yes, that section there was 10% supina by weight, but poa seeds are much smaller than the fescue mix I also seeded, so it was probably 30% by number of seeds.

It actually has not been irrigated AT ALL (except for while it was seeding) until this year because I have to hand water, and I was too busy with other things to take the time to do it. It takes 2 days to water the front yard with one sprinkler.

I think that may be the key to the short stand, though. Short grass doesn't handle being thirsty as well. I'll lower my cut height to 1.5" this time and see how it goes.


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

This does look amazing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz3FOy-3Gr0

I wonder if our hotter weather will allow the poa s. to look good at a lower height. I'll try it. My yard is very, very uneven, but with the walk-behind, it might work out. The poa's already thick enough that it forces plantain leaves upright, so we'll see if mowing it low will kill the rest of them all together. Unfortunately, the plantain isn't as well controlled by the various broadleaf weedkillers I've tried as most thing are.


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## superkaz661 (Apr 19, 2019)

hammerhead said:


> This guy on on youtube (sorry it is german)


If you turn on the closed captioning, you can ask youtube to auto translate to English. Its not perfect (Scheiße!), but it gives you an idea.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Ylli said:


> Bought some Poa Supina for use in a shady area this fall. I like to 'try it out' before I use it in the yard, so I tossed a bit in a solo cup with some potting soil.
> 
> This stuff seems to want to grow to a height of about 1 - 1.5 inches and then stops growing. Stays green, but doesn't get any taller. Is this to be expected for Poa Supina or am I doing something wrong?


When did you plant it? I've grown supina in a blend with kbg and it has a similar sprout and pout phase after which it takes off quickly. My supina hit 4 inches at 19 days after germination. I was giving it a good amount of fert tho.


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

superkaz661 said:


> hammerhead said:
> 
> 
> > This guy on on youtube (sorry it is german)
> ...


 Awesome! I didn't realize that there is an autotranslate option now.  I'm pretty nervous at trying a treatment that works well in Germany blindly on grass in the mid-atlantic, though.


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

Okay watching this, I agree, the first year after you seed it, you really hardly notice the poa supina at all and think you threw away your money.

The second year, you begin noticing it.

The third, it starts choking stuff out (this is in the shade).

The fourth, it's basically a monostand.

Note that it's still thinner the deeper the shade. It seems to be running a year behind. I'm only super enthusiastic about it this year because of the slowness of it to get off the ground, but now it's marching forward, and I love it.

You CANNOT have a heavy tractor on it when it's even a little bit wet because the sheer forces can easily destroy the roots. When other household members were maintaining the lawn, I would get long dead spots because of their carelessness.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Lawndress said:


> bernstem said:
> 
> 
> > I have never grown it, but I was under the impression that Supina does not like to be cut too high. You might try maintining at ~2 inches or less and see how it does.
> ...


If you mow often enough then the density will increase to the extent that you won't see the stolons (not rhizomes). How often do you mow? I mow 2-3 times a week and I don't see many stolons. I have poa supina at different stages of maturity and I've only noticed the stolons at the start of the season after some winter thinning of the grass.

You could try scalping lower than the height you plan to maintain it at to eventually decrease the amount of stolons that you are seeing. I did a 0.5in scalp last June and eventually maintained at 0.9in. The lawn got dense enough for me to not see many stolons at all.

0.5in scalp.


A few days later. You can see the regrowth from the pale beige stolons.


A month or so later cut at 0.55in.


Later in the season cut at 0.9in. Sorry about the blue color balance being off, I think it was my blue socks affecting the shot?


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

Mark B said:


> Lawndress said:
> 
> 
> > bernstem said:
> ...


I am not sure that's the smartest to do in June, but I just dropped the mower down to 1.5". I was mistaken. I was at 2.5" previously. We will see how it does! If I don't shock it I will go to 1" which is my minimum.

Gotta do more leveling out here!

I will always be a person who prefers the trees over the grass. I know that is nuts to most guys here. But I am excited about having a yard that is fully grass. Seems possible for the first time.

This might convey some of the sense of what is special about the feeling the trees give to the yard....



(That's the front part of the front yard. The weird line is where I had to stop mowing after getting a quarter of the front yard because of the rain!!! Grass is all gummy and wet now. Gonna wait until tomorrow to finish mowing.)


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

I forgot to say. I'm currently mowing every 5ish days. When it was cooler, every 3-4.


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

This is why I hate fine fescue. This turf has gotten at least an inch of water every week AND it's not even that hot yet. So it goes dormant.


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

@superkaz661 Since you speak German, can you ask the guy at what temperature he stops fertilizing at? Does he fertilize all through summer in Germany? I stopped fertilizing May 31, typical treatment for cool season grasses, but I don't know if that's correct.


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## 2L8 (Mar 18, 2019)

Lawndress said:


> @superkaz661 Since you speak German, can you ask the guy at what temperature he stops fertilizing at? Does he fertilize all through summer in Germany? I stopped fertilizing May 31, typical treatment for cool season grasses, but I don't know if that's correct.


If you're talking about the PerfectGreen guy, he fertilizes non-stop until fall. But there runs an irrigation system. In general, fertilizing is not reduced in the summer in Germany, at least when irrigation is used.


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

2L8 said:


> Lawndress said:
> 
> 
> > @superkaz661 Since you speak German, can you ask the guy at what temperature he stops fertilizing at? Does he fertilize all through summer in Germany? I stopped fertilizing May 31, typical treatment for cool season grasses, but I don't know if that's correct.
> ...


Yup. I am. I'm a bit nervous to do that in the south Mid-Atlantic, but the poa supina is handling the temps so far fine. Maybe do small doses. I'll give that a shot. If it starts looking less happy, I'll stop.

I can keep it watered okay. Just not daily.

I tried to knock down the whole front yard to 1.5" but it started raining on me again.


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

University of Stuttgart says keep a minimum of 2 cm high in the shade. University of Michigan recommends 1-1.5" for best density and disease resistance and never below 9/16 under moderate traffic.


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## Overtaxed (May 9, 2021)

Lawndress said:


> This is why I hate fine fescue. This turf has gotten at least an inch of water every week AND it's not even that hot yet. So it goes dormant.


Where are you located? My CRF is doing well still on the south end of the transition zone. It's getting about 1" a week supplemental irrigation, but it's looking really good right now. Different cultivar perhaps?


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

Overtaxed said:


> Lawndress said:
> 
> 
> > This is why I hate fine fescue. This turf has gotten at least an inch of water every week AND it's not even that hot yet. So it goes dormant.
> ...


I'm next to DC. My yard is 56 years old, so it's likely. It's got decades of overseeding. So that's likely. The Scotts shade blend and the local FF shade blend (I don't remember what's in it) are what was used most in the last 10 years, aside from the Black Beauty mix I just switched to.


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

I just got it down to 1". I never mow this short, so it's scary lol. We will see how it does. I hit the front with a gentle dose of fert and the whole yard with more broadleaf weedkiller, too.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Lawndress said:


> I just got it down to 1". I never mow this short, so it's scary lol. We will see how it does. I hit the front with a gentle dose of fert and the whole yard with more broadleaf weedkiller, too.


Welcome to the low mow club! Without a reel mower, 1 inch or less may be hard to maintain without scalping. If you run into issues, then raising the HOC to 1.5 (or even 2) inches can reduce scalping and other issues from cutting low with a rotary.


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

bernstem said:


> Lawndress said:
> 
> 
> > I just got it down to 1". I never mow this short, so it's scary lol. We will see how it does. I hit the front with a gentle dose of fert and the whole yard with more broadleaf weedkiller, too.
> ...


My unevenness problems are more rolling dips. There isn't a place with my little 21" mower where I scalp anything. Can't use the big lawn tractor, though. That would definitely scalp!!!!

Here is the rather sad result, seeing as I've previously maintained it at 2.5":



I wonder if it will have time to thicken before it gets too hot.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Lawndress said:


> My unevenness problems are more rolling dips. There isn't a place with my little 21" mower where I scalp anything. Can't use the big lawn tractor, though. That would definitely scalp!!!!
> 
> Here is the rather sad result, seeing as I've previously maintained it at 2.5":
> 
> ...


That looks fine. Plenty of water and it should be fine in the shade. I find my part shade lawn does best when it gets hot and the full sun areas struggle. In spring and fall, the part shade areas struggle when the full sun is thriving. A bit of spoon fed Nitrogen when temps drop may help thicken it up, but you will definitely need water and mowing then. Bringing it up to 1.5-2 inches may end up being a sweet spot for you, but if you can keep it at 1 inch I think the Supina will like it.


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

bernstem said:


> Lawndress said:
> 
> 
> > My unevenness problems are more rolling dips. There isn't a place with my little 21" mower where I scalp anything. Can't use the big lawn tractor, though. That would definitely scalp!!!!
> ...


It actually flooded for the last 3-4 days, so that's why it took me that long to get it cut down. I gave it a spoon feeding yesterday--it's supposed to stay under 85 for the next week, and the last feeding (which was little more than a spoon feeding) was 3+ weeks ago.

There is very, very little published on poa supina, but the U of Michigan trials revealed that the shorter it was, the less necrotic it got in summer, which is totally counterintuitive for me, but a guy in CT decided to let his grow out to 2" for summer and it immediately went necrotic, so I'm thinking they're probably right. So I'm prepared to stay at 1" and hope for the best!

The trials also showed that it was happier at 6lbs/M N than even at 4lbs/M N, which is a bit of a surprise. This is a hungry grass!

I mowed the second the blades were dry enough. On foot, my little electric mower hardly weight anything and isn't a concern. Couldn't put my lawn tractor on it, though. My backyard is always dryer because it's steeper and sunnier.

Crazy thing: a patch has grown in over where I had my black walnut taken out!


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## Alisonpv (Apr 6, 2021)

Ylli said:


> Bought some Poa Supina for use in a shady area this fall. I like to 'try it out' before I use it in the yard, so I tossed a bit in a solo cup with some potting soil.
> 
> This stuff seems to want to grow to a height of about 1 - 1.5 inches and then stops growing. Stays green, but doesn't get any taller. Is this to be expected for Poa Supina or am I doing something wrong?


It should grow to about ~6 inches.

Are you fertilizing enough? Supina is HANGRY.


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## Alisonpv (Apr 6, 2021)

Lawndress said:


> I just got it down to 1". I never mow this short, so it's scary lol. We will see how it does. I hit the front with a gentle dose of fert and the whole yard with more broadleaf weedkiller, too.


I took mine down to 1 inch too this weekend! Equally nervous. Deep breaths. We can do this 😂❤


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## Alisonpv (Apr 6, 2021)

Here's a video of mixed supina and fine fescue, seeded in April.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g2hvg9rokg342z7/Video%20Jun%2013%2C%209%2037%2043%20AM.mov?dl=0


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

Alisonpv said:


> Here's a video of mixed supina and fine fescue, seeded in April.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/g2hvg9rokg342z7/Video%20Jun%2013%2C%209%2037%2043%20AM.mov?dl=0


Yep, let's keep adding supina posts to this thread!

Much of my FF is fully dormant now. Very irritating.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Here's my supina this morning, 2 days after a mow at 0.9in, I'm really happy with it! It's in full sun but my temps haven't gone above 80F yet. It's had 1.5lbs of N/1000 so far this season.


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## Alisonpv (Apr 6, 2021)

Mark B said:


> Here's my supina this morning, 2 days after a mow at 0.9in, I'm really happy with it! It's in full sun but my temps haven't gone above 80F yet. It's had 1.5lbs of N/1000 so far this season.


Mark where do you live in the UK? (Do you guys have the same garden zones USA does? I'm on a 5b 6a cusp, central MA, USA. Just curious your weather.


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## Alisonpv (Apr 6, 2021)

Mark B said:


> Here's my supina this morning, 2 days after a mow at 0.9in, I'm really happy with it! It's in full sun but my temps haven't gone above 80F yet. It's had 1.5lbs of N/1000 so far this season.


Mark where do you live in the UK? (Do you guys have the same garden zones USA does? ) I'm on a 5b 6a cusp, central MA, USA. Just curious your weather.


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## Alisonpv (Apr 6, 2021)

Mark B said:


> Here's my supina this morning, 2 days after a mow at 0.9in, I'm really happy with it! It's in full sun but my temps haven't gone above 80F yet. It's had 1.5lbs of N/1000 so far this season.


And that is some sexyyyy grasss 😍


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Alisonpv said:


> Mark B said:
> 
> 
> > Here's my supina this morning, 2 days after a mow at 0.9in, I'm really happy with it! It's in full sun but my temps haven't gone above 80F yet. It's had 1.5lbs of N/1000 so far this season.
> ...


I'm in Wales, which is an 8b/9. Think the PNW and us are similar climates as I'm west coast UK.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Alisonpv said:


> Mark B said:
> 
> 
> > Here's my supina this morning, 2 days after a mow at 0.9in, I'm really happy with it! It's in full sun but my temps haven't gone above 80F yet. It's had 1.5lbs of N/1000 so far this season.
> ...


Thanks! :thumbup:


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## Alisonpv (Apr 6, 2021)

It is just SOooooo soft underfoot. Omg.

(Yeah I know, feet are gross. I'm sorry. Kinda. 😂)


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## Alisonpv (Apr 6, 2021)

The one inch test is doing great, so buzzed the rest of the yard to 1 inch. And testing a 2x6 area at half an inch.

Orrrrr I'm planning a burial plot 😁





The spread is slowing down again, and I'm finally 2 months post seeding.. So, I put down a 19-0-4 with dimension. I beat the race against crab grass 🙌🏻

Felix (perfect green) puts down 8 lbs/1k of N. Holy. Crap. It's not just my imagination. This grass is nuts. (I love it)


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## Davide48 (Jun 13, 2021)

@Alisonpv how is it going with the summer heat setting in another couple of weeks?

I'm in 7a/b and considering adding in some supina to my fall overseed


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