# understanding lime label



## r7k (Jan 25, 2019)

trying to understand what lime is worth buying, based on values on the labels.
my primary goal is to raise pH from 4.8, based on soil analysis it was said I need 175 lbs per 1000 sqft which is based on a CCE of 1.0 and to put down no more than 50 lbs per 1,000 sqft at one time with applications spaced months apart...

Can someone explain how a $15 30-lb bag of calcitic lime can state on it's label that _soil PH less than 5.0, to correct aplly t rate = 24 lbs per 1000 square feet_ ?

I also don't understand how CCE and RNV can be above 100.0% ?

And how a smaller 30-lb bag having a lower 96% CCE but basically the same effective & relative neutralizing values (ENV/RNV) can go further than a larger 40 lb bag having higher CCE and RNV ?


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

The fast acting lime just acts faster, it doesn't go further. If you apply 24 lb/1000 sq ft of the fast lime, you get 24 lb/1000 sq ft worth of liming effect and it raises the pH quickly (within weeks). But the reserve acidity you have will subsequently lower the pH. You make an application, the pH goes up, then gradually drops as reserve acidity kicks in. To cure the reserve acidity, the lab says you need 175 lb/1000 sq ft. So using the fast lime, you will need 7.3 applications at that rate (once you get over 5.0 pH, the rate you can apply drops so it would be even more applications at the lower rate). Using the dolomitic lime, you can apply it at 50 lb/1000 sq ft. You will need 3.5 applications at the 50 lb/1000 sq ft. rate. The dolomitic lime will work slowly over 3-4 years. If you were tilling, you could do 175 lb/1000 sq ft all at once. Surface applications should be limited.

Some soils are highly buffered and require a lot of lime to make a pH change. Others are lightly buffered and a small amount of lime will raise the pH. The lab has calculated what your soils needs. The 40 lb bag at $4 a bag is the least expensive lime.

Pure calcium carbonate is the standard against which other liming materials are compared. Dolomitic lime is slightly more effective as a liming material than calcitic lime. Calcitic lime will be a bit less than 100% because of impurities.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

CCE (calcium carbonate equivalent, sometimes labeled as TNP- total neutralizing power) is the neutralizing potential of the lime. Pure calcitic limestone has an CCE of 100%, The neutralizing ability of all other product is based/compared to the 100 CCE of pure calcitic limestone. If a product has a CCE of less than 100, it will take more of that product to neutralize the same amount of acidity that pure limestone can neutralize. If the CCE is greater than 100, it will take less of that product.
Pure Dolomitic lime has a CCE of 108. It will take less dolomitic limestone to neutralize the same amount of acidity as the same weight of calcitic limestone. Keeping in mind that it's the CO3 that neutralizes acidity and that calcitic limestone is CaCO3 and dolomitic is CaCO3 and MgCO3, but MgCO3 weighs less than CaCO3. So you get more MgCO3 molecules per pound compared to the number of CaCO3 molecules in a pound. That's more CO3 and more acidity that will be neutralized on a pound for pound basis--8% more.
RNV (relative neutralizing value, sometimes labeled as ENV, effective neutralizing value is a rating system that incorporates both CCE ratings and the fines to which the lime has been ground. The finer/smaller the grind, the higher the rating.
The size of the material determines the speed by which the lime will neutralize acidity. For any lime particles larger than 8 mesh, less than 5% of the lime will dissolve and interact with the acidity within one year and less than 15% in 4 years. Particles larger than a 10 mesh get zero credit in the rating system.
For particle sizes smaller than 8 mesh, but larger than 30 mesh, only about 20% will dissolve within one year and about 45% in 4 years.
For particle sizes smaller than 60 mesh, 100% will dissolve within one year.
Technically, although no manufacture would market such product, it would be possible that a product could have a CCE value of 100, but because it contained no particle smaller than 8 mesh, to have an RNV/ENV of 0.
ENP (effective neutralizing power) is a rating system that is based on CCE, particle size and water content. The more water, the less the rating value as more water = less AI per pound.


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