# Spring Renovation Stunted



## RileyTree CT (Apr 12, 2019)

Hey guys I run a tree and lawn care company in CT and do alot of renovation work in spring and fall. We do t like the spring renovations as they create challenges but try to tell someone they need to wait sometimes is a good way to send a job somewhere else so you deal with it. So I did a 90% TTTF 10% PRG seed mix I always use and have great success with, and it was a round up total kill.

Lawn is not seeming to grow and has a lime greenish color which this tall fescue vle d is usually very dark. I put down 9lbs per 1000 of seed And got great germination, we ferted with 12-24-11 starter at 4lbs/1000 and used tenacity at the 5 oz per acre rate. It started great but has now fully germinated but has shut down. I hit it with a light dose of liquid fert at about .15 lbs of N /1000 and was gonna do that once every 10 days or so to nurse it along untill it gets cut Twice so I can put down dimension. Is this a good plan? 
No crab grass pressure because we used tenacity. This job was done probably in mid to late April so it should have been tall enough to mow but it hasn't grown and is lacking in color.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

It does sound a bit slow. Do you think someone (not your company, obviously) put down a pre emergent in early April before you seeded? Or even a long-term rate of Prodiamine last October or something?? Barring that, anything that leads you to believe a soil issue?

What do you topdress with? Is this hydroseeded? Did the owner water properly? Then again, we had rain almost every day, so maybe they didn't need to...

Speaking of which, any sign of disease on it?

By the way, I have a question for you. I've been curious about how lawns seeded 90% TTTF and 10% PR do over the long term, especially here in CT. Do they tend to stay dense over the years? Any experience you can offer, I'd be interested in hearing it. One of the most well-known lawn YouTube guys here actually had a lawn similar to that in Indiana, and it seemed to do well with proper care. But what about when it's a lawn for your standard American family?

And welcome to TLF!


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## RileyTree CT (Apr 12, 2019)

Hey thanks for getting back I love this great community and it is a great learning tool for the industry. I'm gonna get a soil test done to see how things are looking under the surface. I usually get a test done when I do these jobs but it was a very busy spring g and it just didn't happen. I am ferting this lawn this season so to have a happy customer I'm gonna do what I have to to get this puppy green pplus it's only a 1100 s/f so if I need to do some extras it won't hurt the budget.

The tAll fescue with rye does great here I use it at my house and at all of my properties I seed. It's my go to for non irrigated lawns. I use a *** mix with rye on my irrigated properties. I live tall fescue I love the texture and color. Brown patch is not usually a huge problem here in this climate to but last year we did a bunch of fungicides. Lots of humidity for CT and this year may be the same. In the last bg term the lawns look awesome and they are the best after a couple years and the grass is at full maturity. Takes a while for that fescue to really clump up full. I like the rye for holding the soil when seeding until the fescue takes hold. I aerate and over seed alot of lawns at least every other year so it's hard to say for certain that they would stay as dense because I'm adding more plants every year. But all in all I love it


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## RileyTree CT (Apr 12, 2019)

Hey thanks for getting back I love this great community and it is a great learning tool for the industry. I'm gonna get a soil test done to see how things are looking under the surface. I usually get a test done when I do these jobs but it was a very busy spring g and it just didn't happen. I am ferting this lawn this season so to have a happy customer I'm gonna do what I have to to get this puppy green pplus it's only a 1100 s/f so if I need to do some extras it won't hurt the budget.

The tAll fescue with rye does great here I use it at my house and at all of my properties I seed. It's my go to for non irrigated lawns. I use a *** mix with rye on my irrigated properties. I live tall fescue I love the texture and color. Brown patch is not usually a huge problem here in this climate to but last year we did a bunch of fungicides. Lots of humidity for CT and this year may be the same. In the last bg term the lawns look awesome and they are the best after a couple years and the grass is at full maturity. Takes a while for that fescue to really clump up full. I like the rye for holding the soil when seeding until the fescue takes hold. I aerate and over seed alot of lawns at least every other year so it's hard to say for certain that they would stay as dense because I'm adding more plants every year. But all in all I love it


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## Babaganoosh (Apr 21, 2019)

The tttf is always a little lighter color when it's young. It will darken up as it matures.

I have prg in my mostly tttf lawn and I don't really like it. When the prg seeds it grows that stalky blade for the seeds. It grows at triple the rate of the regular turf. It also tends to die out due to prg not being able to survive the heat of summer. I don't have irrigation. I'd rather it not be there but it's not the end of the world.


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## RileyTree CT (Apr 12, 2019)




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## RileyTree CT (Apr 12, 2019)

These are lawns that I use that mix on I think they look good but I do know what you mean about the stalky rye.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@RileyTree CT do you have pictures of the lawn with issues?


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## RileyTree CT (Apr 12, 2019)

Going there today will get you guys pics of lawn close up


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## Pawel (Feb 1, 2019)

lime green like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fquRGno-weE


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## Tsmith (Aug 11, 2017)

Possibly too much water or not enough?

I had issues in one area when I did my last Reno due to it getting too much water and ended up with a big patch of POA

Too much shade could also be an issue


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## mooch91 (May 5, 2019)

I have another post here where I saw the same this spring with a "renovation" of sorts - it was actually repair of a reno from the fall that had a lot of die-back in the winter. The growth has been stunted and light green in color once it germinated. It's been hanging this way for quite a while. I aerated, overseeded heavily, watered 2X per day, but one of three things happened: (1) it's been wet and cloudy (and this is a semi-shaded area) and that has had an impact on growth, (2) I got some pre-emergent used elsewhere in the yard that washed down in to the reno area, or (3) it's on a hill and the seed washed away/in to the soil.

I gave it a small shot of 0.5-0.75#/1000 sq ft nitrogen a week or so back and it's looking better, but it hasn't knitted in to a tight sod yet. It was seeded in March and again in April. Seed is also TTTF (with a little KBG).


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## RileyTree CT (Apr 12, 2019)

I would say it's not like the Ginjas video because this one is brand new and still has not been load once I'm going to get a picture to show you as soon as possible. It is also in full sun and has had no other products on it as this part of this yard is totally isolated from others in the homeowner has not used any fertilizers or chemicals for quite some time on this lawn


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## RileyTree CT (Apr 12, 2019)




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## Wolverine (Jan 17, 2018)

That turf looks hungry to me


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## RileyTree CT (Apr 12, 2019)

Yeah that's what I was thinking I believe more than likely I'm going to find a low pH causing nutrient lock up I hit it with a 12.5 lb per thousand rate of Calcitic lime with humic acid, an application of liquid humic acid with kelp and 3 lb for 1,000 of 19-19-19 which is alot of quick release so I'm gonna nna see what be that does And I'll post a couple more pictures some parts of this turf are growing thick but the section that had to get topsoil to fill in a hole is struggling the most. I since learned that the topsoil that I got for this job came from a place where they are shaking out stumps to make the topsoil my guess is that considering this soil is from right around the root zone of a large tree it's probably very nutrient deficient


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## jcs43920 (Jun 3, 2019)

Maybe put another round of some starter fert on it. Or even a round of Millorganite. New turf needs to have nitrogen and phos to grow deeper roots and put out some growth.


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

Leaf spot? I see some tip blighting and that hourglass shape. I'm sure @g-man can confirm.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I don't see the black dots in the leaves. I'm not sure what is going on.


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## scooter422 (Oct 9, 2017)

If the heats coming it could be in trouble. I wouldn't push it right before it gets hot. Might be a fall push reno. High nitrogen and humic acid. The ground looks compacted.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

The existing TTTF/PR lawns look good, anyhow.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Hard to say. I would lean toward a soil issue and a soil test to diagnose. It does look a bit like a low pH, depleted soil lawn that is just hungry. There may be a fungal issue, but I don't see a crazy amount of evidence in the pics. Maybe a few diseased blades here and there so hard to say if that is the real problem. Likely moving to a more normal watering pattern will fix it as the lawn isn't that dense so should dry out. I don't think I would jump to fungicides. Plus they are expensive.

What did the lawn look like last fall and before the renovation this spring? That may help us to figure out what is wrong. If it was similar with a thin stand and low growth, it would suggest a soil issue.

A bit of starter or even a balanced fert at half rate certainly won't hurt.

Keep us updated because I'm with @g-man and am not sure what is going on.


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