# My first waypoint soil test results



## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

How did I end up with so much P? I did a urea fall blitz in 2019 and Scotts starter fert in fall 2018, but before that going back to 2012 when I got the property I haven't fertilized.

What is the likely symptom of having so much P and so little K? Should I worry about the high zinc?

I've always considered my soil to be pretty sandy, seemingly reflected in my CEC? Any amendments recommended for this? Is this low enough that I fall into the "smaller doses but more frequent of fert & water" category?

Should I use the recommendations at the bottom of the report even though my lawn is actually a northern mix?

If I'm reading correctly my pH is high. Is it low enough not to bother with elemental sulfur or other pH lowering techniques?

Any other insights/suggestions please do share  I'm pretty new at soil fertility.

Thanks,

David


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

davegravy said:


> My first ever test results
> 
> I didn't start fertilizing until last year when I applied N only (fall blitz with urea). How did I end up with so much P? What is the likely symptom of having so much P and so little K? Should I worry about the high zinc?
> 
> ...


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Phosphorus is obviously high so don't add any this year. Get SOP to raise you're K. 2lb/M SOP (1lb K per M) monthly. OM is decent so continue to mulch mow if that's what you've been doing.

PH is high like most S ON soils. You'll have to use foliar iron for color.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

davegravy said:


> I've always considered my soil to be pretty sandy, seemingly reflected in my CEC? Any amendments recommended for this? Is this low enough that I fall into the "smaller doses but more frequent of fert & water" category?


A CEC of 16 is more reflective of a loam soil, even heavier loam.

Example, in 2018 I had a particle analysis done from Waypoint. 
Classified as Loam
48.4% silt
34.7% sand
16.8% clay
OM 4.8% and a CEC of 14.2


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Pete1313 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> > I've always considered my soil to be pretty sandy, seemingly reflected in my CEC? Any amendments recommended for this? Is this low enough that I fall into the "smaller doses but more frequent of fert & water" category?
> ...


This it seems lines up with how many soils are in my and davegravy area. Loam soil with high PH and P with low K.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

> How did I end up with so much P? I did a urea fall blitz in 2019 and Scotts starter fert in fall 2018, but before that going back to 2012 when I got the property I haven't fertilized.


Canada's not known for deposits of phosphorite or phasphate bearing rock. P is very slow to dissipate, it takes a long time for overdoses to leach out or be used up, so once there, it's going to stick around. If you didn't add it, then someone prior to you did. It may have been farm land at one time, I've seen reports for farm land where P was 200+ppm.


> What is the likely symptom of having so much P and so little K? Should I worry about the high zinc?


Including, but not limited to:
Most likely symptom of excessive P would be a deficiency in one or more micro-nutrients. Insufficient K can result in poor turgor, poor cold and heat resistance and more susceptible to disease. Your Z levels aren't detrimentally high as there is no known detrimental upper limit.


> I've always considered my soil to be pretty sandy, seemingly reflected in my CEC? Any amendments recommended for this? Is this low enough that I fall into the "smaller doses but more frequent of fert & water" category?


Your CEC reflects a testing error, more specifically, the employment/selection of the wrong test for this pH soil. M# in higher pH soils will result in the over-measurement of Ca. Your soil's Ca levels are not as high as reported (3000ish) This results in higher reported CEC and skews the Saturation percentages, making all useless numbers (Ca, CEC, and%Saturation). In addition much of your soil CEC is due to the high OM content of your soil, not due to your soil's clay content. That is why your sand soil has a near clay CEC reported.


> Should I use the recommendations at the bottom of the report even though my lawn is actually a northern mix?


No. Apply no P until levels fall bellow 50 ppm. Apply no lime.


> If I'm reading correctly my pH is high. Is it low enough not to bother with elemental sulfur or other pH lowering techniques?


 That's up to you. I would suggest you read comments made on this forum by both @g-man and @Greendoc. Both have given excellent info and explanations of the advantages/disadvantages.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Ridgerunner said:


> > I've always considered my soil to be pretty sandy, seemingly reflected in my CEC? Any amendments recommended for this? Is this low enough that I fall into the "smaller doses but more frequent of fert & water" category?
> 
> 
> Your CEC reflects a testing error, more specifically, the employment/selection of the wrong test for this pH soil. M# in higher pH soils will result in the over-measurement of Ca. Your soil's Ca levels are not as high as reported (3000ish) This results in higher reported CEC and skews the Saturation percentages, making all useless numbers (Ca, CEC, and%Saturation). In addition much of your soil CEC is due to the high OM content of your soil, not due to your soil's clay content. That is why your sand soil has a near clay CEC reported.


That's concerning.

What do you mean by "M#"?

Do you mean I selected the wrong test (S3M) for my soil type, or Waypoint didn't process my sample properly? Should I ask them to reprocess my samples? To clarify, you have no reason to believe there's issues with the rest of the reported values, just Ca, CEC, and %Saturation can't be trusted?

I assume I would want an accurate quantification of Ca to help drive my decision about whether it's worth trying to lower my pH.... Is there much value in knowing my correct CEC and %Saturation (are they likely to drive any practical fertilization/soil amendment decisions?)

Thanks for chiming in.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Not M#, M3, the extractant used in the S3M test. Let's say You chose poorly. For Better CEC and Ca results in higher pH soil, you want to use AA, ammonium acetate. I also prefer Olsen vs M3 for P, but that is a debatable topic. I have no reason to suspect any other reported nutrient levels would be adversely skewed. Accurate CEC (how much nutrient your soil can hold) and %Sat (ratios between nutrients--e.g. the ratio of Ca to Mg, can indicate how "tight" the soil is) values aren't critical for fertilizer application, but can provide insight into the soil. If your paying for those values to be reported, you might as well get as accurate as possible. In most soils, Ca levels are going to be sufficient or above. Even though your numbers are inflated, your true Calcium levels are going to be adequate and accurate Ca levels won't help in your acidification decision. Take the information as an FYI for future testing. If you wish to stick with the S3M in the future, just know that reported Ca, CEC and %Sat numbers are not accurate.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Ridgerunner said:


> Not M#, M3, the extractant used in the S3M test. Let's say You chose poorly. For Better CEC and Ca results in higher pH soil, you want to use AA, ammonium acetate. I also prefer Olsen vs M3 for P, but that is a debatable topic. I have no reason to suspect any other reported nutrient levels would be adversely skewed. Accurate CEC (how much nutrient your soil can hold) and %Sat (ratios between nutrients--e.g. the ratio of Ca to Mg, can indicate how "tight" the soil is) values aren't critical for fertilizer application, but can provide insight into the soil. If your paying for those values to be reported, you might as well get as accurate as possible. In most soils, Ca levels are going to be sufficient or above. Even though your numbers are inflated, your true Calcium levels are going to be adequate and accurate Ca levels won't help in your acidification decision. Take the information as an FYI for future testing. If you wish to stick with the S3M in the future, just know that reported Ca, CEC and %Sat numbers are not accurate.


Thanks, very informative. I'll look for an alternative test type next year.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Just a point of clarification in case my comment about Ca levels and acidifying soil was misleading. Some labs can perform a soil carbonate or lime content test and report CaCO3 contnet in a soil. With that information, you could calculate how much Sulfur would be needed to neutralize the lime content. To neutralize 3.12 pounds of pure CaCO3 in the soil, it takes one pound of Sulfur. Soils with a pH above 7.5 can contain 2-3+% of limestone. That's 40000+ pounds of limestone per acre or over 900 lbs/M. It's easy to see why most concluded trying to permanently change pH in that situation is futile. That doesn't mean that there aren't advantages to temporarily lowering soil water pH with regular apps of sulfur and citric acid.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Dave, you can see my soil test from 2018 (m3) and 2019 (AA). The CEC values did change by around 4 points. But you won't go from 20 to 3. You have a good soil, don't chase numbers too much.

The important thing is that you need to adjust to having a high pH. You can try lowering it (check the guide for how), or deal with it. You can have a great lawn.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Draft plan is as follows (all values are lbs of product per ksqft, not lbs of AI per ksqft).

Please let me know if this makes sense or not.

*
urea = 46-0-0
SoP = 0-0-50
*

*Apr 25*
2 lb SOP
0.5 lb urea
1.6 lb sulfer

*May 9*
0.5 lb urea

*May 23*
2 lb SOP
0.5 lb urea
1.6 lb sulfer

*June 6*
0.5 lb urea

*June 20*
0.5 lb urea
2 lb SOP
1.6 lb sulfer

*Jul 18*
2 lb SOP
1.6 lb sulfer

*Aug 15*
2 lb SOP
1.6 lb sulfer

*Aug 22*
0.5 lb urea

*Sept 5*
*fall blitz start, weekly apps of 1lb urea*

*Sept 12*
1.6 lb sulfer

*Oct 10 (give or take, weather depending) *
*last fall blitz app of 1lb urea*


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

@g-man @SNOWBOB11 any chance I could get your take on this since it's the first plan I've developed?


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

davegravy said:


> @g-man @SNOWBOB11 any chance I could get your take on this since it's the first plan I've developed?


You can wait for g-man to give any other suggestions but it looks good to me. Only thing I'd say is you should start your fall nitrogen blitz from the August 22nd urea app. From my experience the last few seasons starting in September is late for our area.

I guess this doesn't include foliar iron? Don't want to forget about that with your ph.

Also remember at 1lb urea per week you'll be putting down 2lb of nitrogen per rolling month. You can do that but just keep up with the mowing.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> > @g-man @SNOWBOB11 any chance I could get your take on this since it's the first plan I've developed?
> ...


Thanks!

Yes to foliar FAS, I'll eyeball it based on how much chlorosis I'm seeing. I'll also be doing humic apps. The schedule above is just for soil amendments that are a response to my test results.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Good plan.
Will be interesting to see how the sulfur affects pH.
Good luck.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@davegravy I dont do calendars. Every time I try to schedule the grass when it needs to grow and when I could mow it, it ignores me. On top of that the weather guy is always wrong. :-D

Feed the lawn to get a healthy grow, around 1in of grow/week when the weather is optimal (eg. not when 100F or 20F).

Monthly applications of elemental sulfur are not the typical. A single app of 5lb/ksqft in spring is optimal so the microbes have time during the summer to break it down. Check the Soil Remediation Guide for more details.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

g-man said:


> @davegravy I dont do calendars. Every time I try to schedule the grass when it needs to grow and when I could mow it, it ignores me. On top of that the weather guy is always wrong. :-D


I definitely don't expect to stick to this exactly, it's just a rough plan.



g-man said:


> Monthly applications of elemental sulfur are not the typical. A single app of 5lb/ksqft in spring is optimal so the microbes have time during the summer to break it down. Check the Soil Remediation Guide for more details.


Ok good to know, I hadn't read anything about maximum application rate so I had broke it up to be safe. Certainly easier to do it in one shot!


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

@g-man:



> Because an abundance of sulfur can burn the grass, you must apply it over time. You can apply up to 5 pounds of elemental sulfur per 1,000 square feet of an established lawn. Make applications every three to four weeks during the cooler fall and spring weather. Avoid applying more than 10 pounds per 1,000 square feet a year.


https://homeguides.sfgate.com/should-apply-sulfur-lawn-101998.html

Seems to suggest it should be split into multiple apps?

What if I do two apps @ 5 lbs each, one early May and one early June?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Homeguide? SFgate? What is the research for that article?

I have no further comments.


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## KoopHawk (May 28, 2019)

davegravy said:


> @g-man:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've seen it can take 6-8 weeks for it to break down. If it stays cool it could take longer. If you want to get 10 LB down this growing season, I would do an application in early May and another in August. Give the first app enough time to break down.


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