# Swardman vs. Greensmower



## DeliveryMan (Mar 1, 2018)

So it may be time to upgrade my mower after my next sand leveling job at the end of the month -- getting really quite flat and uniform now..

I have a used Tru-cut C27 that is probably 10-12 yrs old and works well, but starting to show signs of wear and tear.. I have been eyeing both new Swardman's and Used Greensmowers.. I wanted to get your opinion of these options as I figured you guys would have good insight in to this.

Is the main question going to be my desired height of cut (I plan to want to set HOC at 0.5" for the foreseeable future) or what other factors should I consider?

I have approx 3000 square feet (1500 in the front that is just awesome -- 1500 in the back that is much tougher to grow due to shade from neighbors enormous oak tress; i usually cut some of that with a rotary mower).. I am sure that used mowers will be quite variable in their performance and maintenance issues due to them being used, but think the Swardman's will be a quite a bit more expensive (but love the option of the verticutter and the scarifier cartridges that are optional)..

What else am I not thinking of?

Thanks in advance for any replies and I apologize if this topic should be in a different forum..


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## Awar (Feb 25, 2019)

I asked this question a little over a year ago and was mostly looking at TruCuts, Cal. Trimmers and McLane's. Almost everybody said I needed to get a Greensmower but a couple mentioned Swardman. I ignored the majority and ended up with a Swardman Edwin 55 and in general I'm glad I did.

In addition to having the replaceable cartridge options that you already mentioned, my favorite things about the Swardman is that it is very easy to maneuver, adjust HOC, adjust reel-to-bedknife, it's relatively quiet, etc... Very user friendly for an average homeowner. I'd warn you if you have a slope the Swardman will not do well like a TruCut! Also I'm 45 min away from Reel Rollers so it gave me more confidence and I met Lee and his team in person. They've sharpened my reel a couple of times and they're awesome to work with.

I'm sure Greenmowers are superior machines from build quality, being heavy duty, and probably offer a cleaner cut, but I didn't want to deal with used equipment and have a hard time cutting close to obstacles, patio/walkway, flower beds, etc.

If you decide on a Swardman I think you can get away with the 45cm version if you're cutting 1500 or even 3000 sq-ft.


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## JLavoe (Jun 8, 2020)

@DeliveryMan I was prepared to purchase a Swardman, all the features really pulled me in. But, at the end of the day.. I'm not certain a Swardman is built to handle mowing warm season grass. Too much alpha.

It makes sense for most considering how much it can do just like @Awar said. However, it's gonna be used primarily for mowing.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

I personally would look for a greens mower. You can find some deals, and old doesn't equate to "broke". Parts are accessible stateside, and plenty of support online and with parts houses for whatever major brand you get.

What you save, you'll have a mower built like a tank, made for commercial use. If you've got a lot of landscape items to dodge it has a steep learning curve, but nothing wild. A good pair or rotary scissors are a must have IMO regardless of how close you want to cut to obstacles.

The cartridges sounds good on the swardman buy it really comes off a gimmicky, in the way that it can do all of that, and not really do any of it exceptional. Jack of all, master of none type of thing.

I'd have to imagine it's on par with your trucuts and other home models. You've got one point for service, and could potentially run into issues being down a mower due to a small footprint.

That said- probably the easy option, but if you think you'll ever sell off your mower, you are likely to take a significant hit with a swardman like you would a trucut, the greens mowers won't , as they've already been depreciated, and in some cases, are worth more than people buy for currently.


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## Lawn Smith (Jun 8, 2020)

I've never used a greens mower but would like to purchase one, one day. I looked at them last year before I bought my Swardman and what sold me on the Swardman was getting it sharpened is way easier. You can simply mail the cartridge/reel vs hauling the entire mower somewhere to have it sharpened. Also a greensmower can only got to like .5" vs 2" HOC with the Swardman. Not a big deal there but something to consider.

I think everyone will agree the greens mower is superior but the Swardman offers similar characteristics with the rear drum and 10 blade reel and is much more economical for the "average" home owner. I also bought the scarifier cartridge and love it but can't speak for the brush or verticutter.


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## SugarLand Bermuda (Sep 27, 2019)

Iv personally use both a Swardman and Greensmaster and its honestly hard to compare the two together. Im sure its kinda obvious but just having both side by side its clear a greensmower is targeted for commercial use and a Swardman is targeted for residential. A greenmower is a tank in comparison lol. Each have their pros and cons tho.

Me personally, i enjoy mowing with the Swardman over the Greenmaster, but i have 4200sqft and quiet a few obstacles to work around. i feel like im working much harder mowing with the Greenmaster. That said, i love the weight the Greensmaster has that the Swardman is missing. With the Swardman being so light it tends to float on Bermuda from my experience. Mowing in both directions kinda helps with that. Id say, a Swardman would be perfect for your 3000sqft. The reel services at ReelRollers is really convenient and the cartridge system is just the cherry on top. Really nice having those options, just wish the Swardman had a little more weight. All just my opinion tho. Love the Greenmaster, just honestly prefer the Swarman on my lawn.


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## bp2878 (Feb 13, 2019)

Never used a swardman but I know they are top notch. I do use a jd greensmower and use to have a trucut. If you want something that's easy to use on a smallish yard and don't care about putting on it, swardman probably the way to go. If you want perfect repeatability, don't mind the learning curve of manhandling a greensmower and possibly want to dabble in the sub .3 HOC range one day, the used greensmower is the right mower. The swardman is going to cut fantastic right out of the box. The greensmower will take you a while to adapt to it. When I first got mine, I hated it and reverted back to my trucut. After deciding to commit to it, I figured it out and have loved it ever since. They are heavy machines and you have to learn how to navigate them around landscaping. They don't stop and go, they just go and you follow behind and try not to hit anything. I'd like to putt on my turf by end of the summer, but if I just wanted a great looking yard and had 4K to spend, I'd be buying the swardman.


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## Boy_meets_lawn (Sep 27, 2020)

I was set to buy a swardman but then they were delayed in production and I found a JD 220e for a reasonable price. If I had to make a decision today I would still buy the greensmower. On board backlapping is super nice and you can just take the qa5 cutting unit in to get a grind. Its not light by any means but I dont have to load up the whole mower.

Parts are easily available and dont require importing stuff so if you break something mid season you can get back cutting quickly. And parts are rated for hundreds to thousands of hours so for a residential lawn it will probably outlive you.


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## Lawn Smith (Jun 8, 2020)

Boy_meets_lawn said:


> I was set to buy a swardman but then they were delayed in production and I found a JD 220e for a reasonable price. If I had to make a decision today I would still buy the greensmower. On board backlapping is super nice and you can just take the qa5 cutting unit in to get a grind. Its not light by any means but I dont have to load up the whole mower.
> 
> Parts are easily available and dont require importing stuff so if you break something mid season you can get back cutting quickly. And parts are rated for hundreds to thousands of hours so for a residential lawn it will probably outlive you.


Have you by chance used a Toro Greensmaster also? Would like to hear your opinion comparing the two if you have


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## Boy_meets_lawn (Sep 27, 2020)

I have not but the comparable unit would be the flex series with the floating head. The lack of grease fittings would be nice.

I decided against a flex at the time because of the height of cut limitations and my yard not being leveled. I started at about 1" last year late season and kept it there. I still haven't leveled yet and I cut at 0.5" with no issue.

You can vary the clip rate on either of them so they should both cut very well within their operating heights.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Lawn Smith said:


> I've never used a greens mower but would like to purchase one, one day. I looked at them last year before I bought my Swardman and what sold me on the Swardman was getting it sharpened is way easier. You can simply mail the cartridge/reel vs hauling the entire mower somewhere to have it sharpened. Also a greensmower can only got to like .5" vs 2" HOC with the Swardman. Not a big deal there but something to consider.
> 
> I think everyone will agree the greens mower is superior but the Swardman offers similar characteristics with the rear drum and 10 blade reel and is much more economical for the "average" home owner. I also bought the scarifier cartridge and love it but can't speak for the brush or verticutter.


Depending on mower, you aren't limited to .5 as the highest cut. My GM1600 goes to 1.25 if I'm not mistaken. Cutting 2in tall imo, you don't need to bother with a reel anyways so that's maybe not quite a selling point.


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## Lawn Smith (Jun 8, 2020)

FATC1TY said:


> Lawn Smith said:
> 
> 
> > I've never used a greens mower but would like to purchase one, one day. I looked at them last year before I bought my Swardman and what sold me on the Swardman was getting it sharpened is way easier. You can simply mail the cartridge/reel vs hauling the entire mower somewhere to have it sharpened. Also a greensmower can only got to like .5" vs 2" HOC with the Swardman. Not a big deal there but something to consider.
> ...


Mowing at 2" is not a selling point and neither is mowing above .5" with a greens mower. If he thinks he has the yard for a GM though then I guess a GM would be a good choice.


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

DeliveryMan said:


> I have a used Tru-cut C27 that is probably 10-12 yrs old and works well, but starting to show signs of wear and tear.. I have been eyeing both new Swardman's and Used Greensmowers.. I wanted to get your opinion of these options as I figured you guys would have good insight in to this.


The fact that @Ware returned to using his Greensmaster as his primary mower after demoing a Swardman for an ENTIRE season told me what I needed to know when I was looking for my Tru-cut replacement.

I went with a Baroness greensmower after @Greendoc had good things to say about them.

I paid $1,500 for my unit that had only been demoed one time. My $250 verticutter is a Ryan Ren-o-thin. I can't imagine spending $3k+ on a Swardman. The build quality is not comparable to a greens mower...





Lastly, I would buy a used Dennis if I really wanted a cartridge system mower.

Good luck on whatever you decide!


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

The second picture is why I have good things to say about Baroness.


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## bp2878 (Feb 13, 2019)

I am an overkill junkie, and that side by side really gets me going. But for homeowners use, I think the swardman would be more than sufficient. It is however nice to buy what we can assume is the last mower we will ever have to buy when you buy a greensmower. I guess I'm a bit torn on this, my greensmowers are almost 20 years old and I know I will get 20 more out of them. I highly doubt a swardman would last even a quarter of than, man they are sexy though.


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

bp2878 said:


> I am an overkill junkie, and that side by side really gets me going.


I forgot to post the front views...





Just kidding Swardman fans!!! Have a Happy Cinco de Mayo!


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Having had a Toro GM1600 for awhile, and seeing another members Swardman, and having a 3k sq ft lawn myself, I have my eye on the JD 180e. I found the TM1600 a bit tough to maneuver because I have some obstacles in my yard. I also like that you can have ground speed and clip rate decoupled, and backlap with just a switch.

The swardman has some really neat cartridges like dethatching and verticutting and all that, but you can get at least the verticut part of that with the JD 180e.


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## potatochip (May 28, 2020)

I have a John Deere 220b as well as an Allett mower. I have owned a few trucut and mclane mowers in the past as well. I cannot speak to the swardman directly, but can tell you that I love my allett mower. It is similar in that you can change out the cartridges and what not. It is much easier to maneuver and if you are mowing 1500 sq/ft any greens mower is completely overkill and, frankly, likely wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable to mow. I have both of my machines completely dialed in so they cut amazing; the cut quality on both are the same: great. Again, I cannot speak to swardman specifically, but I am telling you there is not a difference in the quality of cut between my Allett and JD. Mowing on a smaller yard I would choose the Allett 100 times out of 100.


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## Sbcgenii (May 13, 2018)

TulsaFan said:


> bp2878 said:
> 
> 
> > I am an overkill junkie, and that side by side really gets me going.
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I think there are several factors involved in deciding between the 2 different kind of mowers.

1. Lawn layout- If you have a lot of obstacles in your lawn a Swardman may better suit your needs as it is lighter and easier to maneuver but you might be fine with an 18 inch Greensmower too. You also need to take into account of the wheel axles on the Greensmower as these won't allow you to get real close to vertical objects like a fence or wall.

2. Lawn size- The larger the lawn the wider the mower you are going to want most likely as this will allow you to mow faster. I think a Swardman would be better suited for a smaller lawn like no more than 7-8,000 square feet but once you start getting above those numbers you may want to start looking at the 26" greens mowers. Obviously these numbers aren't hard and fast but I think a good rule of thumb to start at.

3. Desired HOC- Obviously, both of these mowers can cut REEL LOW but if you are wanting to flirt in the sub .5" HOC, this is where a greens mower really shines but if you are wanting to maintain the lawn around 1" HOC I would go with the Swardman as you are reaching the upper limits of a greens mower and won't have much room to move up from there.

4. User Mechanical Knowledge- I think this is the main sticking point between Greens Mowers and Swardman. If you have some minor mechanical knowledge and/or like to fix and do things on your own, I think a Greens Mower is the way to go as they are fairly easy to work on and do repairs and you will save a ton of money doing it yourself as parts are readily available online. Now, if you are someone who doesn't like to do maintenance on your own or are afraid of messing something up, a Swardman can be the way to go as it will be a new machine so their is less of a chance of something going wrong and you are able to send the reel in to get sharpened when needed. With a Greens Mower, you will need to find a shop or golf course to get your reel sharpened but it's not something that should need to be done very often.

5. Steep hill or inline- If you have a steep hill or incline on your lawn you may not be able to go with either of these kind of mowers and may want to look at getting a McClane, TruCut or California Trimmer as these types of mowers have wheels which will give you more traction.


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## DeliveryMan (Mar 1, 2018)

Thanks all for the opinions/insights

Kinda surprised by @JLavoe comment on Swardman not being built well enough for warm season grasses! Is that true ?

Is the maintenance on Swardmans a dealbreaker? I certainly can appreciate the pictures from @TulsaFan about the build quality (that was kind of an eye opener for me), but the reel low lawn for me is realisically only 2500 sq feet has given me pause about needing that is blast proof like a greensmower

Thanks again guys


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

DeliveryMan said:


> Thanks all for the opinions/insights
> 
> Kinda surprised by @JLavoe comment on Swardman not being built well enough for warm season grasses! Is that true ?
> 
> ...


They are made, or designed originally for "English lawns". So not really ideal for being light weight for grasses that will grow low and horizontal. The lighter mowers will eventually just ride on top of the grass and float. This happens even to some greens mowers, too, but perhaps to a lesser degree.

One thing too I think is the reel grind... swardman makes a point to share it needs sharpened, but that's because it doesn't have a relief grind on it like other brands do, say like JD or Toro, Jacobsen, etc. those can backlap and sharpening isn't really needed as often as a swardman. The swardman will, so if you've got something tough bladed like a zoysia, you'd probably see more issues as the reel gets worn.

I doubt you'd need much maintenance, especially for just 2500 sq ft of area. Go buy what you like, do a little research in the threads and make your pick. The greens mowers are tanks, and likely overkill. The swardman is more "toy" like as alluded to, and seems to have a bit more fragile/thinner parts. Some people hate both mowers, so it's not a once size fits all.

I will say though, a swardman is not hands off. You'll need to maintain as you would others. Plenty of posts here alone about stuff rattling off, loosening up, belts slipping and reels having issues, along with the normal maintenance stuff everyone has to do like oil changes and such.


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## briansemerick (Apr 11, 2021)

you forgot the other option, Allett  that's what I have. Same cartridge system as the Swardman but easier to change.


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## potatochip (May 28, 2020)

briansemerick said:


> you forgot the other option, Allett  that's what I have. Same cartridge system as the Swardman but easier to change.


Not to mention they have been making high quality reel mowers for over 50 years. They are new to the states but known for maintaining soccer pitches in Europe. (Swardman started in 2013...)


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## Lawn Smith (Jun 8, 2020)

FATC1TY said:


> DeliveryMan said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks all for the opinions/insights
> ...


The Swardman is a spin grind but by replacing the bedknife for $22 you are accomplishing the same thing as a backlap for a relief grind. No question the greensmower is more sophisticated and makes the swardman look like a toy in comparison but it's $12,000 new vs $3,000. I wouldn't consider a Swardman cheap but things will break and when they do, you can very easily order the new part and fix it yourself. It's a simple machine which could be a positive depending on how you look at it.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Lawn Smith said:


> FATC1TY said:
> 
> 
> > DeliveryMan said:
> ...


Very few people are buying new greens mowers so I don't think cost comparison reflects much. Good info having to replace the bedknife as a backlap substitute.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

I might be wrong, but I think @Reelrollers is able to put a relief on the Swardman reels at first sharpening.

Many floating head greenmowers can be equipped with different cartridges. Jacobsen Eclipse, Deere 180e/220e and maybe some newer Toro Flex units utilize cutting units that are interchangeable. Example: I could buy a Jacobsen Eclipse2 122f and a set of 3 TrueSet cutting units. I could setup the 3 cutting units with a verticut blade, grooming/sand brush, and as a backup mowing unit. Not an inexpensive route but same function, no compromise on build quality.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

MasterMech said:


> I might be wrong, but I think @Reelrollers is able to put a relief on the Swardman reels at first sharpening.
> 
> Many floating head greenmowers can be equipped with different cartridges. Jacobsen Eclipse, Deere 180e/220e and maybe some newer Toro Flex units utilize cutting units that are interchangeable. Example: I could buy a Jacobsen Eclipse2 122f and a set of 3 TrueSet cutting units. I could setup the 3 cutting units with a verticut blade, grooming/sand brush, and as a backup mowing unit. Not an inexpensive route but same function, no compromise on build quality.


They do not put a relief angle on any more. Directive from Europe was to spin grind only. Their reel blades were also made with a much thicker profile, which in my opinion begs for a rather substantial relief angle to be ground into the blades. Again, directive from Europe was no relief angle. I have seen reel mowers of various types to soon stop cutting with commercially acceptable quality on warm season types. I was reminded by @osuturfman that in order for a reel mower to work as a spin grind only mower, several conditions regarding the maintenance of the grass as well as the mower had to be met. 1. No debris of any kind on the turf. 2. Less than 1/3 of the height of the grass is to be taken off with a spin grind reel. 3. As soon as the reel is dull it must be spin ground again. 4. Mower frame must be square. I do not know of many home or in my case, commercially maintained lawns that can meet all of the conditions 100% of the time. A relief grind is a much more forgiving and easy to maintain cutting unit set up.


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## Longtee81 (Oct 5, 2019)

I considered the Allet and Swardman before deciding to take my chances on a 220e. So glad I went that route. I have many trees and have no trouble navigating around them. I was concerned over servicing the other mowers since I'm far away from any of their dealers.

I saw too many posts on this forum of parts breaking as a result of their lower quality. I would argue that Ryan Knorr's yard looks as good as any other I've seen and he has been able to accomplish that without a greensmower, so that would be good enough for most situations on a coolseason lawns.

I love the reel and bedknife on the Greensmower. If you have a home with mulch bets, etc you don't have to worry about a twig or mulch bending or throwing off your setup, as greensmowers are built with golf tees in mind. I don't think the other mowers would be as forgiving.

I'm not getting any younger and looking ahead I will definitely move to a consumer model as I age. I hope they continue to improve them and fix any weaknesses in design and quality. We have some great options and I don't think you will go wrong with any of them!


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## Longtee81 (Oct 5, 2019)

I considered the Allet and Swardman before deciding to take my chances on a 220e. So glad I went that route. I have many trees and have no trouble navigating around them. I was concerned over servicing the other mowers since I'm far away from any of their dealers.

I saw too many posts on this forum of parts breaking as a result of their lower quality. I would argue that Ryan Knorr's yard looks as good as any other I've seen and he has been able to accomplish that without a greensmower, so a swardman/allet would be good enough for most coolseason lawns.

I love the reel and bedknife on the Greensmower. If you have a home with mulch beds, etc you don't have to worry about a twig or mulch bending or throwing off your setup, as greensmowers are built with golf tees in mind. I don't think the other mowers would be as forgiving.

I'm not getting any younger and looking ahead I will definitely move to a consumer model as I age. I hope they continue to improve them and fix any weaknesses in design and quality. We have some great options and I don't think you will go wrong with any of them!


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## Lawn Smith (Jun 8, 2020)

I wish somebody would do a side by side comparison on the cut quality.


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

Lawn Smith said:


> I wish somebody would do a side by side comparison on the cut quality.


Cut quality of both will be great if they are properly sharpened. Quality of cut is not a big deal. Learning how to grow grass Properly is a lot harder.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Properly sharpened yes. Maintenance of that sharp edge is another matter.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> Properly sharpened yes. Maintenance of that sharp edge is another matter.


Exactly. And the sharpening method is pretty much baked into the design of the machine. Swardman is doing a pretty good job of making reel maintenance accessible to more owners, but we have to be clear on what that means. Shipping cartridges, having a backup reel, etc.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I call that less accessible vs a few simple tools and a container of lapping compound. Would Swardman honor the shipping arrangements if someone were to ship a reel to them from Hawaii?


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## Passat774 (Oct 9, 2018)

I feel like my Toro GM1600 is a tank, it is designed to work for thousands of hours.

I am just amazed that the I have the newest machine at the golf course, they have mowers from the 90's that they cut everyday with.


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## Lawn Smith (Jun 8, 2020)

MasterMech said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> > Properly sharpened yes. Maintenance of that sharp edge is another matter.
> ...


So greensmowers don't have to be sharpened annually by an actual grinding machine? I knew you could backlap but thought you only did that once or twice during the season to help maintain the edge from the machine sharpening.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Passat774 said:


> I feel like my Toro GM1600 is a tank, it is designed to work for thousands of hours.
> 
> I am just amazed that the I have the newest machine at the golf course, they have mowers from the 90's that they cut everyday with.


This... I live on the course, and I see them toting the greens and surrounds around. Mine is newer than theirs, and they do it for a business.

I don't need a cup holder in a walk behind mower, I'd rather have a mower I can service, and not mail it off. Compound is cheap, a drill, everyone owns. Takes 2-3 songs on the radio and I'm slicing.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Lawn Smith said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> > Greendoc said:
> ...


No... for homeowner use and frequency? I'd be hard pressed to say someone needs to grind a reel yearly. That's absurd if they adjust it and backlap it and can't cut. Maybe once every two years if it starts to head south.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Lawn Smith said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> > Greendoc said:
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There are many golf courses on the take off the relief angle and spin grind the mower only program. They are dismounting cutting units and re grinding them up to every 2 weeks. If the reel had a relief angle on it, then a light backlap when the edge starts to dull and an annual grinding during the off season is about it. Without that relief angle and ability to backlap, cutting units are removed and needing to be re ground irregardless of how busy or slow things are.

I know of mower shops in my state that grind off the relief angle from non greensmowers like McLanes and Tru Cuts. Those mowers go back to the shop every 30-45 days at best for a re grind. If the mower is in the hands of a mowing crew, it cuts well for the first few lawns after it gets out of the shop then it proceeds to hack up and butcher the lawns it is used on until it goes back to the shop to be spin ground again. That sometimes only happens after I have had some sharp words with the mowing crew about the condition of their mower.


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## Lawn Smith (Jun 8, 2020)

FATC1TY said:


> Passat774 said:
> 
> 
> > I feel like my Toro GM1600 is a tank, it is designed to work for thousands of hours.
> ...


I don't think people are buying a Swordman for the optional cupholder upgrade. And I think a lot of people would find replacing a bed knife is way easier and cheaper than buy a backlap kit and having to deal with that mess.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> I call that less accessible vs a few simple tools and a container of lapping compound. Would Swardman honor the shipping arrangements if someone were to ship a reel to them from Hawaii?


As far as shipping reel cartridges to/from Hawaii, that's a circumstance that seems like a small price to pay for living in such a beautiful location. Should someone of appropriate knowledge on the island(s) volunteer to serve as the service location for any Swardman mowers that find their way into paradise, I'm sure Swardman would gladly entertain making them official. Even if it doesn't work for remotely located customers, the vast majority of the market has no trouble shipping within the lower 48.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Lawn Smith said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> > Greendoc said:
> ...


HAVE to? ehhhh, HAVE is such a strong word.... :lol:

If you are really kind to the machine, and the machine is in excellent mechanical condition, you can get away with back-lapping for years in home use. You should be back-lapping regularly, even if it's just a quick session. I like to do it monthly on my machine, maybe it's more like 6 weeks, :bd: and keep it cutting clean. Def do not wait for problems to show up before back-lapping and you don't really want to be in the position of having to set the clearance "tight" to get a good cut.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

FATC1TY said:


> Passat774 said:
> 
> 
> > I feel like my Toro GM1600 is a tank, it is designed to work for thousands of hours.
> ...


I don't recommend it, but we ran 20 year-old triplexes for greens mowers (Toro 3100's) and properly maintained, they cut just as well as newer units. The maintenance started to get a bit tough though, especially within budget constraints. After 3 major hydraulic leaks in as many months, the owner relented on purchasing a much newer unit for our primary greens mower. This was on a decent 18-hole championship course (private) too. If your course is walk-mowing and you have no hydraulics to worry about, those machines can be maintained very, very well and cut every bit as good as a new unit. If the units are aligned on a surface plate and bearings checked often/replaced annually, I see no reason you couldn't keep on keepin' on with a trusty old (fully depreciated,  ) mower.

EDIT: Where going to a newer technology based mower can help is in the ground-compaction (and turf tearing) characteristics of the machine. Most OEM's have either mastered the cutting geometry or left it fully adjustable by the mechanics/supers. But moving from fixed-head walk-mowers and older triplex setups to newer flex walkers and triplexes makes a difference on turf that's mowed daily at sub .250" heights. Not so much on a home-lawn that's mowed 2-3x week.

The newest units have modifications to reduce their overall weight/compaction, avoid repetitive wheel tracks on clean-up sweeps, and eliminate sources of fluid leakage. They've all cut great since the Jacobsen GreensKing IV's of the 70's.


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

I have a commercial greensmower, (Dennis FT510). I had my reel sharpened with a relief grind by the local Toro Turf Distributor in Jan. 2020. It still cuts paper
And my cut is fantastic almost 16 months later. There is something to be said for a high quality steel commercial reel. I'm not convinced Swardman reels are built to that same standard.


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## Passat774 (Oct 9, 2018)

Shindoman said:


> I have a commercial greensmower, (Dennis FT510). I had my reel sharpened with a relief grind by the local Toro Turf Distributor in Jan. 2020. It still cuts paper
> And my cut is fantastic almost 16 months later. There is something to be said for a high quality steel commercial reel. I'm not convinced Swardman reels are built to that same standard.


My mower is the same had a grind done last year no back lapping, I am on year two and still cuts through paper with ease.

The guy at the golf course said that as long as it's cutting paper even folded twice I would be fine. We get hung up on the internet thinking that we know more than the guys who do this for a living. 

If more people would learn to leave their home and find a local golf course to take care of their reel mowers Swardman would have a lot less business.

I will stick to my Toro Tank that will last a lifetime.


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## Lawn Smith (Jun 8, 2020)

Passat774 said:


> Shindoman said:
> 
> 
> > I have a commercial greensmower, (Dennis FT510). I had my reel sharpened with a relief grind by the local Toro Turf Distributor in Jan. 2020. It still cuts paper
> ...


Touché


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Lawn Smith said:



> FATC1TY said:
> 
> 
> > Passat774 said:
> ...


I was a bit tongue in cheek, and I know you love a swardman, but paying $22 bucks or whatever and getting down to replace the bedknife sounds worse. If I recall someone couldn't even get a swardman to stay tilted back to work on it......

Lapping compound is cheap. I'd you don't own a drill at this point in your life, then I don't know what to tell you. There is no "kit". I have enough compound for $20 bucks I could backlap every member in GAs mower for close to a year if needed.

What does it cost for a reel sharpening from swardman? Early on I wanted one, but all the issues seemed to pop up being new


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

Lots of passion coming from ATL. Perhaps, @Lawn Smith and @FATC1TY need to have a mowoff? We can get some guy with a rotary mower to judge it. :lol:


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

TulsaFan said:


> Lots of passion coming from ATL. Perhaps, @Lawn Smith and @FATC1TY need to have a mowoff? We can get some guy with a rotary mower to judge it. :lol:


Hah! I more interested to learn what people find to be the best part of their mowers, etc.

The judge can be someone with a robot mower so they can tell everyone they are wasting their time.


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## Boy_meets_lawn (Sep 27, 2020)

Now we just need someone with a prostripe to chime in.


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## Lawn Smith (Jun 8, 2020)

TulsaFan said:


> Lots of passion coming from ATL. Perhaps, @Lawn Smith and @FATC1TY need to have a mowoff? We can get some guy with a rotary mower to judge it. :lol:


If @FATC1TY keeps disrespecting my mower I might have to go show him what's up!

In all seriousness though, I do wish I had a Toro GM. Once I get my yard where I want it I'd say I'll buy one (hopefully in the next year or two) and use my Swordman as a dethatching, verticutting, and sanding brush tool. When I was trying to decide what to get last year the Swordman made more sense as I was not ready to jump from a rotary to full on greensmower.


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## Reelrollers (Feb 6, 2018)

FATC1TY said:


> Lawn Smith said:
> 
> 
> > FATC1TY said:
> ...


Fortunately, the reel cartridge comes out of the Swardman models so you don't have to climb under the mower or tilt it back, just slap it on the work bench 😀. All kidding aside, there's a market for both Swardman and greens mowers. Heck, the more options the more we all win.

I think what excites me most about the Swardman line of mowers is their design. We've all been used to virtually the same "design" of reel mower. Heavy, loud, and did one thing, make an incredible cut. The downside was hauling the mower to a shop for annual service and backlapping in between. In my business, I was always looking at my reel mower looking to improve it. I would think "how can I get better stripes, enclose the grass catcher, or use the mowers engine to do more than just mow". Or, "man I wish I knew my height of cut without getting out a micrometer, or why is this reel so damn hard to adjust!".

Point is, I had been reel mowing for 10 years prior to Swardman launching their mower and their design filled so many gaps I was trying to modify my McLane, Trimmer, and Tru Cut to do. I value the features which make reel mowing a little more convenient. I like using 1 unit to do note than just mow. With young sons and weekend ball games, I'm willing to sacrifice the very best cut you can get (greens mower) for more time and all the conveniences of a Swardman.

I hope their innovations spur the giants to drive continuous improvements for folks like us seeking a great looking turf.


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## briansemerick (Apr 11, 2021)

^^yeah. of course, the Allett cartridge system does the same thing, and has a removable widely available battery, which is even better because you can swap them and keep mowing.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

FATC1TY said:


> TulsaFan said:
> 
> 
> > Lots of passion coming from ATL. Perhaps, @Lawn Smith and @FATC1TY need to have a mowoff? We can get some guy with a rotary mower to judge it. :lol:
> ...


Well considering I've owned a Swardman Electra and now have an Automower 450x it seems I'm the primary candidate for this role.


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

@DeliveryMan So, you ended up with a JD 220E. Are you happy with your purchase?


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## DeliveryMan (Mar 1, 2018)

@TulsaFan

Super happy thus far -- I am going to sell the TruCut..

I honestly thought it would only be a nominal cut difference between the TruCut and the 220E, but I was way wrong.. The E cut is amazing.. Has a 14 blade reel and I am cutting at 0.375in for now with amazing results.. Love the FOC adjuster on the Ecut..

I will admit the machine is a beast and maybe a bit overkill for my measly 3000 sq feet of lawn, but its awesome and I feel much easier to maneuver when compared to the TruCut (but maybe the TruCut needs a clutch adjustment)..

But I got a good price on it and am super happy thus far -- With the money I saved on the used mower (vs. the Swardman) I am looking on a set of rotary scissors for the EGO line trimmer


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

DeliveryMan said:


> @TulsaFan
> 
> Super happy thus far -- I am going to sell the TruCut..
> 
> I honestly thought it would only be a nominal cut difference between the TruCut and the 220E, but I was way wrong.. The E cut is amazing.. Has a 14 blade reel and I am cutting at 0.375in for now with amazing results.


Awesome! :thumbup:


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