# Best KBG for the transition zone?



## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

I've been poking around the forms. I'm trying to find something definitive about the best Kentucky bluegrass to use in the transition zone. Both if you're attempting to mix with TTTF and stand-alone.

Seems like the Midnight types? What about America types?


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## fusebox7 (Jul 27, 2017)

Hey @MDJoe have you reviewed NTEP? https://www.ntep.org/ntep/data/kb11/kb11_17-10f/kb1117ft20.txt

How is Turfgrass Quality Evaluated?

Quality is based on 9 being outstanding or ideal turf and 1 being poorest or dead. A rating of 6 or above is generally considered acceptable. A quality rating value of 9 is reserved for a perfect or ideal grass, but it also can reflect an absolutely outstanding treatment plot. The NTEP requires quality ratings on a monthly basis.

Quality ratings will vary based on turfgrass species, intensity of management and time of year. Within species quality ratings are relative. Among species they are not. For example, an acceptable quality rating of 6 within tall fescue cultivars is not relative to the same value given among Kentucky bluegrasses. An acceptable quality rating value for a utility turf differs from the same value for a bentgrass putting green.

Quality ratings take into account the aesthetic and functional aspects of the turf. Quality ratings are not based on color alone, but on a combination of color, density, uniformity, texture, and disease or environmental stress. Turfs growing in a study may receive the same numeric quality rating, but the factors influencing that rating may differ. For example, one turf may receive a quality rating value of 5 based on overall color and density, while another may receive the same value based on disease incidence and its impact on turfgrass density.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

I've been tracking Pete at GCI Turf who is doing some testing and knows t-zone hot, humid, not enough rain conditions. I think his current blend includes midnight. Not sure what the new blend will have. Can save you a lot of time and effort to see how his experiments turn out.

There certainly can be debate over whether his choices are the "best" but I don't think there can be any questions about what he chooses will work at the very least "really good" without a lot of strife. That's how he makes a living and he seems to be very successful at it.


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

fusebox7 said:


> Hey @MDJoe have you reviewed NTEP? https://www.ntep.org/ntep/data/kb11/kb11_17-10f/kb1117ft20.txt
> 
> How is Turfgrass Quality Evaluated?
> 
> ...


I'll check that out on my desktop PC. It's not aligned right on my phone to make any sense of it!


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

I'm in the northern part of what is generally considered the transition zone, in Maryland, but our summers here are every bit as hot and humid, with unreliable, feast-or-famine rainfall as North Carolina and Tennessee. The main difference being that our winters are colder.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

MDJoe said:


> I'm in the northern part of what is generally considered the transition zone, in Maryland, but our summers here are every bit as hot and humid, with unreliable, feast-or-famine rainfall as North Carolina and Tennessee. The main difference being that our winters are colder.


I'm basically where you are with the only difference being I maybe get a little more fungus pressure for more of the season, but the outcome is the same. I think you sum up perfectly what makes growing cool season a real challenge here. The only thing to add are the soaker rains following the Summer drought that come usually more or less throughout Fall and Winter, and then really pour early Spring, that will often drown any low lying areas.

Anyone coming here from the North would be in for a shock. Yes, it's worse than they can likely imagine :lol:


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

I used to live in Akron, Ohio. Although, on paper, our average rainfall month to month and annually is similar or even slightly higher here, it seems we have more extremes in precip here in MD vs OH. Last September we got almost 9" of rain. This September we have gotten 0.11" so far.


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## bmitch05 (Oct 29, 2018)

This may not apply to everyone in the t-zone but from what I have seen in my neighbor's lawn with his KBG & TTTF mix is a constant battle with the elements. I am in Missouri so we get some real extremes with the weather and very high humidity all summer. I am unsure of what cultivars my neighbor has in his lawn but you can certainly identify the difference between the two grass types in the middle of the summer because the KBG really struggles. To remedy this he runs his sprinklers a lot more often (mixed with humidity) and I've noticed that he is dealing with a lot more disease and fungus, so it really looks bad either way.. let it go dormant / die off or deal with the fungus? The disease issues also affect the TTTF. Depending on where you are in the t-zone, I personally wouldn't go for KBG.. I will say that I have been keeping up with Pete's KBG test plot and it really looks good! But I've also seen the other outcome across the street. So it's completely up to you.. hope this helps.


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## Mtsdream (May 2, 2019)

bmitch05 said:


> This may not apply to everyone in the t-zone but from what I have seen in my neighbor's lawn with his KBG & TTTF mix is a constant battle with the elements. I am in Missouri so we get some real extremes with the weather and very high humidity all summer. I am unsure of what cultivars my neighbor has in his lawn but you can certainly identify the difference between the two grass types in the middle of the summer because the KBG really struggles. To remedy this he runs his sprinklers a lot more often (mixed with humidity) and I've noticed that he is dealing with a lot more disease and fungus, so it really looks bad either way.. let it go dormant / die off or deal with the fungus? The disease issues also affect the TTTF. Depending on where you are in the t-zone, I personally wouldn't go for KBG.. I will say that I have been keeping up with Pete's KBG test plot and it really looks good! But I've also seen the other outcome across the street. So it's completely up to you.. hope this helps.


This is somewhat disappointing but am curious as to how much your neighbor feeds his lawn etc. I have 15-20% bluegrass in my reno, hoping i can make it survive Southwest of you.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

MDJoe said:


> I'm in the northern part of what is generally considered the transition zone, in Maryland, but our summers here are every bit as hot and humid, with unreliable, feast-or-famine rainfall as North Carolina and Tennessee. The main difference being that our winters are colder.


I also think that the NTEP reports offer a helpful line of information, in addition to reading about the experiences of forum members who have given it a shot.
I'm not a bluegrass expert, but I think that the compact midnights are where you want to focus. The compact Americas might be worth a look, but I can't think of anyone who has done that in the t-zone.
If you have Tennessee summers, then it might be helpful for you to know that I consider my venture into bluegrass relatively successful. I have a Midnight monostand as well as a mix of Mazama, NuGlade, and Award. Both stands have made it through the summer, but with lots of water. As the summer has dragged on a bit long this year, both stands have struggled some during the last 2 weeks, but overall, it is healthy turf--just ready for cooler weather.

Day in and out, the bluegrass mix looks better. It is thicker and offers top color on a more consistent basis. It has struggled more with disease. The Midnight has struggled less with disease, but it isn't as thick, and I can never predict when the color will be on-point versus flat. When it pops, though, it pops. FWIW.


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## bmitch05 (Oct 29, 2018)

Mtsdream said:


> bmitch05 said:
> 
> 
> > This may not apply to everyone in the t-zone but from what I have seen in my neighbor's lawn with his KBG & TTTF mix is a constant battle with the elements. I am in Missouri so we get some real extremes with the weather and very high humidity all summer. I am unsure of what cultivars my neighbor has in his lawn but you can certainly identify the difference between the two grass types in the middle of the summer because the KBG really struggles. To remedy this he runs his sprinklers a lot more often (mixed with humidity) and I've noticed that he is dealing with a lot more disease and fungus, so it really looks bad either way.. let it go dormant / die off or deal with the fungus? The disease issues also affect the TTTF. Depending on where you are in the t-zone, I personally wouldn't go for KBG.. I will say that I have been keeping up with Pete's KBG test plot and it really looks good! But I've also seen the other outcome across the street. So it's completely up to you.. hope this helps.
> ...


@Mtsdream I am not sure exactly how much he is feeding the lawn, I do know that he mixes up the organics and synthetics and usually doesn't do any feeding the summer months. I am sure some humic applications would likely help with the drought stress, and I've offered this advice but he thinks the amendments are all snake oil. You could always give the KBG the ol' college try and see what happens?


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## Avalawn T (Sep 11, 2018)

I'm 2 weeks into my TTTF/KBG reno. SSS TTTF blend that I added more 4th millennium to up the %. SSS KBG blend that added more Bewitched to also up that % in the mix. I'm definitely no expert but I believe it depends a lot on how much time and effort you put in to be successful. I have a small yard that is basically my hobby. I would say if you can dedicate more time than the average homeowner go for it. There is plenty of great info here to help you along.


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

Kbg can be done in the tzone. Just depends on what you want out of it. Im in my second year with a kbg lawn in st louis with all day sun and i did zero fungicide treatments this year. I do get dollar spot, but i accept that. It bounces right back in the fall. Also have an irrigation system(recommended). I have everglade, midnight, bewitched, diva, and rhapsody. Considering doing a mono eventually.

June 19


August 19


October 18


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

It depends on what your definition of best is. NTEP puts Barvette HGT at the top of the Transition Zone chart , and Barserati a close 4th. They're both found in Barenbrug's Turf Blue HGT mix.

Barvette also tops the charts for traffic stress and summer patch resistance.

Barvette also comes in dead last as far as genetic color, tied with Kenblue. Barserati is towards the bottom as well.

As you can see, there's pluses and minuses to each variety. There is no best overall, there's what's best for you given your needs and goals. So if you're looking for high quality, Midnight/Mazama are a good bet. If you're looking for tough grass that can withstand abuse, you could go HGT. There's many options in between, and you should consult the NTEP charts to find the one that will suit you best.

References:
https://ntep.org/ntep/data/kb11/kb11_17-10f/kb11_17-10f.pdf

https://ntep.org/ntep/data/kb11/kb11_17-10f/kb1117ft31.txt


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## troksd (Jul 27, 2018)

I have a fescue / kbg mix. About 6 years old. KBG is primarily midnight. This year I overseeded with some of the newer species.
July and August can be a challenge. I keep it tall and shaggy, water manually every 10 days.......


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