# Gallery/Isoxaben (Pre-M) Questions



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

At the urging of @Greendoc, I looked up information on Gallery (Isoxaben) pre-emergent herbicide after watching @thegrassfactor's video on pre-emergent rotations. I have used primarily Dimension for over 10 years, every single time in the Spring and sometimes in Fall, with Prodiamine sometimes in the late Summer instead (for Poa annua prevention).

@high leverage

Generic Isoxaben is tempting, and seems it might be the answer for this year, but there are still some things I wanted to ask about.

-I don't see residential turfgrass listed; only commercial. Hmm.

-I see almost every broadleaf I battle listed, but not crabgrass. Does that mean I would still have to use Dimension or Prodiamine in the areas where crabgrass is an issue?(Edit: yes, but still interested in this sub topic in terms of strategies).

-Established turfgrass with good root system. Unfortunately, the area where I would most benefit from Gallery, was overseeded recently (and I'm going to add more seed soon). How "established" are we talking? I see 3 tiller thrown around as guidance on the labels.

-How mobile is Isoxaben in water after rain? I sometimes get flooding, and the area drains into a culvert. Is this an issue if it's already been incorporated into the soil (any more than with Dimension)?

Is is any more toxic to people (applicator or lawn users) or wildlife than the Dna herbicides? What about wildlife that eat grass, weeds, or nuts from trees?

-What's the deal with use of it near fruit and nut trees? The label says non-bearing, established only. Why? How far away do you have to keep it? Drip line?

-I looked for a table with how long the various rates last. Did not see it. Very important.

Also, anyone else here used it on lawn areas?

How long does the generic 75wg stuff last in storage after opening?

Any other concerns?

Edited to add: I love experimenting as long as it's cost effective. The price of generic Isoxaben does not seem too bad compared to a granular pre-M like I've been using. I would likely need less Dimension/prodiamine this year if I also used Gallery, but would need some help coming up with a proper program incororating both based on my weed pressure patterns and temperature history. I have a good handle on Dimension granular rates and how long it lasts after years of use, but no intuition on Gallery since I haven't used it yet...let alone how it does combined with a Dna herbicide (e.g. synergy?).

Thanks!


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Isoxaben is in fact labeled for residential lawns and landscapes. It has minimal effect on grasses of any kind emerging from seed. Minimal effect on most grass roots for that matter. This is something I use around lawns that have been sprigged or plugged. Most DNA herbicides cannot go on plugged or sprigged turf.

"not for bearing fruit trees" That is because Dow has the label and still holds the patent for Isoxaben(Trellis SC) for use in fruit orchards and vineyards. They also paid a lot of money to get that usage on the label.

I consider Isoxaben a low hazard product. Not irritating to the skin. Not labeled a poison. Not labeled a suspect carcinogen.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Greendoc, thanks. That actually sounds pretty awesome. If I can get a good deal on some (say, under $100 for the 1 lb), I will probably go for it.

One other issue I thought of, is I have the Chapin 20v battery sprayer. You once said that dissolvable products can easily damage the pumps in these. I have nothing else to apply it with. I've done 100% granular for pre-Ms all these years up to this point.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

You have a good size lawn. That would be 16-32 gallons of spray if I were doing the job. I would probably be doing it with the engine drive backpack and the boom. I did not answer some of your questions about the product. Isoxaben is no more mobile in water or soil than a DNA pre. Reason why I will add it to Prodiamine or Dimension is so I can get Pre activity on broadleaves without using maximum rates of DNA herbicides. What that means is if I time it right, no broadleaves for at least 6 months in my area. No need to apply broadleaf weed control. I have a special situation where broadleaves can emerge 12 months of the year. I will quickly run into the label limits on herbicides if I tried to control them Post only. Isoxaben WG is stable for years if not decades in storage.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Thanks again @Greendoc. Gallery really sounds ideal, combined with apps of (I don't mean tank mixed) my Tenacity and Dimension.

Since all I have is the Chapin 20v and a Chapin hand can, I have no choice but to use the 20v. Do you feel that this product leaves a lot of residue inside? Any cleaning advice to prevent it from damaging it and building up?

Currently (2017), I was running Tenacity at the 4oz/A as my first round of pre/post, followed by granular Dimension 0.15% granular a month later at a reduced rate (around 3 lbs per thousand).

Background info: When I'm not seeding, I use the 0.15% Dimension in early or mid April at 4 lbs per thousand square feet.

Done in either of those schedules, the Dimension wears down by August, ideal for seeding.

Crabgrass usually begins in early May.

Do you think the Gallery should be used at the same time that I typically use the Dimension (around the point of 45 to 50 degree soil temps)? The dandelions start seeding in April or May. But I don't usually see much spurge until maybe June.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

You do not see the Spurge because it is still only 2 leaves and hidden under the grass. Gallery lasts 4-6 months when used at the 1.3 lb rate or the 0.5 oz per 1000 sq ft rate. I would apply it before I see broadleaves a month or so before is good.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> You do not see the Spurge because it is still only 2 leaves and hidden under the grass. Gallery lasts 4-6 months when used at the 1.3 lb rate or the 0.5 oz per 1000 sq ft rate. I would apply it before I see broadleaves a month or so before is good.


That means sometime in April, because the earlier broadleafs are likely germinating at that time. We also get residual Chickweed popping up in early Spring.

Do you feel adding Gallery will help with the resistance issues Matt discussed?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Not in your case. More helpful for me.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Greendoc, I know you recommended using Prodiamine in conjunction with the Gallery, and I was leaning toward Dimension...

What do you think of a Prodiamine/Sulfentrazone combo used a month or so after the Gallery/Tenacity? It should prevent Sedge, right? Echelon is too expensive, but I see a granular version in my local hardware store, by Bonide (weed Beater Complete).

I saw it years ago but just assumed the Sulfentrazone was supposed to be a post-M (making the product a weed and feed without fertilizer). But after reading that Sulfentrazone has a 60 day residual, I wonder if it could prevent Sedge and also bolser/overlap target pre-M effect with the Gallery.

I might really be able to knock down/prevent a lot of stuff this way; just looking for your opinion. Thanks.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

My bad. The official suggested tank mix by Dow is Dimension + Gallery. I have used it, mostly for weed control in landscaped areas. It works.

Tenacity+Gallery is a good idea to knock down newly emerged weeds while preventing more broadleaves from emerging. Following that with Prodimine+Sulfentrazone is a good idea as well. Since your state allows it, look for the Bonide Sedge Ender. That is nothing more than Echelon SC in a smaller size. Normally that stuff is sold by the gallon only $$$$$$$.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Greendoc, yeah. I was surprised Echelon and its equivalents are ok to use here, but I'll take it. It looks like they've outlawed a lot of insecticides here, though (e.g. Dismiss is only restricted use).

So, is the pre-M function of Sulfentrazone worth its salt? For example, if sedges have not popped up yet, will it act as a pre-M to prevent them from rooting for the claimed 60 days after application?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Yes. You will want to apply the max allowed rate of the Echelon or its consumer equivalent. I use the max allowed rate to control Purple Nutsedge and Kyllinga. The max allowed rate is also a different MOA for broadleaf weed control.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> Yes. You will want to apply the max allowed rate of the Echelon or its consumer equivalent. I use the max allowed rate to control Purple Nutsedge and Kyllinga. The max allowed rate is also a different MOA for broadleaf weed control.


MOA = mode of action, right?

Ok. Max rate because that's what it needs to be an effective pre-M? Only issue there is that the Prodiamine (and the Sulfentrazone too?) needs to wear off in time for overseeding.

I would need it to wear off sometime in August. Sedges usually aren't much of an issue until maybe July. Is that asking for the impossible?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I know Sulfentrazone is a bad idea around non established grass. Here is how it works as a PRE. Imagine a product that forms a residue in the first 1/2" or so of the soil. Anything that tries to put a shoot up through that residue layer is promptly damaged and burnt. Works on broadleaves and on the sedges. It is also something I do not use when sprigging grass. The new runners are damaged just by contacting treated soil. 
I have seen sedges that have emerged through Sulfentrazone. They are all browned. As for the Prodiamine in the Echelon, I believe there is enough being applied to prohibit seeding within 6 months of application.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Thanks for the explanation of the mechanism.



Greendoc said:


> As for the Prodiamine in the Echelon, I believe there is enough being applied to prohibit seeding within 6 months of application.


Do you know if a lower rate of Echelon (say, enough such that the Prodiamine lasts 3-4 months) can still function as a pre-M (the Sulfentrazone, that is)? Also, any idea what that rate would be? (I would guess half of the max if what you said above is true about it lasting 6 months at max rate.)

Also, does Sulfentrazone itself do anything to prevent or damage development of new cool season turf grass from seed or sod/sprigs/plugs/immature turf? Because I know Prodiamine is considered safe at 60 days or so, but wasn't sure about the Sulfentrazone half of the mixture.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

No it does not. I am familiar with what happens when Dismiss is applied at 3X at the 4 oz per acre rate. Less than that, as in when Sulfentrazone is applied as a kicker for other herbicides is not a pre any more. Here is what probably will happen if there is too much Sulfentrazone on the soil. Grass will be damaged. I also know that cool season grasses are less tolerant of Sulfentrazone vs warm season grasses.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

I think I misspoke about Dismiss being restricted here earlier. I meant the insecticide Demand CS. I don't believe Dismiss is restricted here, because Echelon is not. I got my D's mixed up. Point was, they're restricting a lot of insecticides here.

@Greendoc, ok. I was going to run the numbers and figure out whatever the rate that equated to 3 months Prodiamine coverage was, and use that rate of the Echelon/Bonide stuff. It sounds like it won't be enough of a concentration to have a pre-M effect. What that means, is it won't prevent sedges. I guess it will kill any broadleaf or sedge that has already germinated, though. And there is always some.

I was thinking of using the very lowest rate listed. For the granular, that was just under 2 lbs per thousand. I'm not sure what it is for the liquid.

Do you think the granular version of Echelon is even worthwhile to consider if I'm running a low rate? I'm generally against granular post-emergent products for the usual reasons, but in this case, it would be a lot easier to apply. I could do it in a fraction of the time as the liquid. They tell you to dampen the grass and not water in for 48 hours...


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Not worth it. Granules are never worth it for me. At low rates, there rises the issue of coverage unless the granules are the size of dust.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> Not worth it. Granules are never worth it for me. At low rates, there rises the issue of coverage unless the granules are the size of dust.


Yup. That's what I thought you were going to say. Thanks for your help up to this point.

For that area with all the weed problems, I think I'll go with Gallery/Tenacity initially in April. I'll investigate the Echelon a bit further. I have plenty of time before May too figure it out.

But on the other areas, I think I'll probably still add Gallery to my standard Tenacity app in April, and just follow it up with Dimension a month later, as I usually do.

One thing I need to research is whether they're both ok (Echelon and Gallery) to use above 80 degrees on cool season grass, and if there is any negative effect toward other plants or trees in the area, the warmer it is.

I also get tons of yellow woodsorrel.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

The Echelon is not harmful to most ornamentals as long as it is not sprayed over the top. Gallery is in heavy use in the nursery industry because of the extremely limited postemergent control options in ornamentals. TLDR, neither of those product will hurt your plants when applied according to label instructions. In fact, I am an advocate of Dimesion Gallery or Prodiamine Gallery applications in landscaped areas rather than letting weeds come up then having to use Glyphosate or worse.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

Green said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> > Not worth it. Granules are never worth it for me. At low rates, there rises the issue of coverage unless the granules are the size of dust.
> ...


 Gallery is fine above 80 degrees but I would caution against spraying sulfrentrazone above 80 degrees on cool season grass. I've seen it burn up turf pretty good.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Turfguy93 said:


> Green said:
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> 
> > Greendoc said:
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So true. Sulfentrazone also scorches Zoysia and St Augustine if applied in hot weather. I only spray that between Nov-May where I am at unless people are prepared for browning of the turf.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Greendoc @Turfguy93, thank you both.

After doing some more research, it appears Sulfentrazone is risky on many Fescues. That does not sound good. I have a lot of Fescues in the area I was considering it for.

It's looking like Gallery + Tenacity is the way to go, though. Possibly even omitting Dimension this year on areas with low crabgrass pressure (most of the back lawn)...

I was trying to find out how long Gallery protects in my area at the 0.25 and 0.38 oz/M rates, but did not see it on the label. I googled for more info, and it looks like 3-6 months. And it doesn't impact grass seed germination...? Wow! Considering I have mostly broadleafs to deal with these days, it sounds great. It's actually pretty cost effective.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

I found sulfentrazone to be pretty hot last year even though the temp was not.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Sulfentrazone is a marginally selective contact herbicide. I have scorched lawns good with it.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Turfguy93 @Greendoc, I usually throw some NIS into my Tenacity so I get foliar mode of action, too. Will Gallery still work ok if added to this solution?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Should be fine.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Thanks to both of you.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

https://www.amazon.com/ITS-Supply-Pre-Emergent-Herbicide-Landscape/dp/B00J94I0P0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1550353769&sr=8-2&keywords=isoxaben


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

gene_stl said:


> https://www.amazon.com/ITS-Supply-Pre-Emergent-Herbicide-Landscape/dp/B00J94I0P0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1550353769&sr=8-2&keywords=isoxaben


Yup, that's probably what I will buy.


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## mowww (Jan 16, 2018)

Green said:


> gene_stl said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.amazon.com/ITS-Supply-Pre-Emergent-Herbicide-Landscape/dp/B00J94I0P0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1550353769&sr=8-2&keywords=isoxaben
> ...


$7 cheaper at Keystone's direct site instead of their Amazon page
https://www.keystonepestsolutions.com/isoxaben-75wg-herbicide-1-pound-replaces-gallery-75df-436


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

mowww said:


> Green said:
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> > gene_stl said:
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And even less on their Ebay page (if you include shipping). Thanks.


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## mowww (Jan 16, 2018)

Green said:


> mowww said:
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> > Green said:
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Wonderful!
I am having trouble finding that one on eBay, do you have a link? I'm lookimg to use it in some landscaped native areas.


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