# Help! URGENT!!! OMG OMG OMG! Etc...



## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

Hey all. Forgive my dramatic tread title. My problem isn't near as urgent as my title claims. I'm just hoping to get more eyes on this since my last post on the subject didn't yield any solutions.

For the last couple of of weeks my lawn has been littered with tufts of dead grass. Prior to this I was dealing with fungus and sod webworms but had none of the dead chunks littered about. I've been using the grass catcher. California Trimmer's catcher isn't great but I'd guess it's catching at least half of the dead stuff. Since there's so much of it remaining after 4 or 4 cuts with the catcher I figure whatever the problem is it isn't resolving itself.

Since late July/early August I've applied Clearys 3336f, Armada WG, and Fosetyl-AI for fungus. I've also applied Spectracide Triazicide, Bio Advanced 24 he Grub Killer, and Bifen XTS for insects. I've been using T-Nex and liquid Iron every 3 weeks (approximately, based on GGD). I've fertilized with BalX DIY 16-4-8 @2.5lbs per 1k. We've been getting a lot of rain so I haven't watered much this month.

Here's pics of what I'm dealing with. Any help is appreciated.


----------



## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

Just finished the double mow and noticed these moths in the grass catcher. I picked one up and he wiggled away but couldn't/wouldn't fly so I don't know if that's a sign of their health or age. I don't know if it means anything at all. I always thought it was white moths I needed to look out for.


----------



## Dr PainTrain (Jun 5, 2020)

Looks like you have no other options but to nuke it. Sorry for your loss.


----------



## Factor (Oct 10, 2019)

Looks like Army worm / Moths

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=armyworm+moths+control&atb=v227-1&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images

https://www.domyown.com/msds/Acelepryn_G_Label.pdf

It could look like this...

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=army+worms+bermuda+damage&atb=v227-1&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images


----------



## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

Factor said:


> Looks like Army worm / Moths
> 
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=armyworm+moths+control&atb=v227-1&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images
> 
> ...


@Factor thanks. That does look like the culprit. I supposed I'll retreat with Bifen XTS in the morning.

Interestingly I applied Triazicide on the 9th and Bifen on the 19th. The directions for Bifen say to irrigate with .25" of water after applying but they also say NOT to irrigate for 24 hours after applying for army/sod webworms. So I just sprayed it and let it dry. I'll do it again tomorrow and actually irrigate it to see what happens.


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

The holding off on irrigation is to allow the worms to eat the treated foliage so let it go at least one night if you can. I don't know how possible that is during the peak of hurricane season though. Even those of us that are not directly impacted are still getting lots of rain.


----------



## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> The holding off on irrigation is to allow the worms to eat the treated foliage so let it go at least one night if you can. I don't know how possible that is during the peak of hurricane season though. Even those of us that are not directly impacted are still getting lots of rain.


That's what I figured, which is why I didn't water it in last time. But since it (apparently) didn't work I'm wondering if I should have gone with the other hightlighted instruction that says to water it in? What say you? @Redtwin


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Kamauxx said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> > The holding off on irrigation is to allow the worms to eat the treated foliage so let it go at least one night if you can. I don't know how possible that is during the peak of hurricane season though. Even those of us that are not directly impacted are still getting lots of rain.
> ...


I haven't had an issue with webworms since I've started doing monthly apps of Bifen XTS this year (.25oz/1000sf). I will occasionally see a moth or two but I have a full-blown army of toads and lizards that patrol my yard each night. I have also had success with Triazicide in the past regarding webworms. l've always considered webworms to be an easy pest to eliminate but you are not the only one I have heard having repeated problems with thems this season. I wonder if there are some that are developing a tolerance to certain pesticides.


----------



## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> Kamauxx said:
> 
> 
> > Redtwin said:
> ...


Ahhh, so maybe I should have my kids go frog/lizzard hunting. Definitely cheaper than all of the chemicals I've been buying. :lol:

Do you water the Bifen in after applying?


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Oh... looks like I didn't answer your question. I would think that watering it in would also get them as they retreat to the soil each day. I'm wondering if the issue with the dead tufts is actually webworms though. They usually eat the green leaf and not the stems. Do you have any signs of mole crickets?

Edit: I've always watered it in.


----------



## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

I have seen webworms a couple weeks ago. It's what got me started on the insecticide journey. I don't know about mole crickets but the stuff I've put down should treat them as well.

I just remembered I have a bag of Triazicide laying around. Maybe tomorrow I'll mix it with Bayer 24 hr Plus, then spray Bifen over it and water it all in.

Do you use a surfactant with your Bifen apps?


----------



## Factor (Oct 10, 2019)

If it is Armyworms and you are using Bifen.

This is for IT not xts.
https://www.domyown.com/msds/Bifen_IT_Label1.pdf

Lawn Application Rates
Under typical conditions, the application rates shown in the table below will
provide control of the listed pests. Bifen I/T may, however, be applied at up to 1
fl. oz. per 1000 square feet at the discretion of the applicator. Maximum residual
control requires the higher treatment rates.
Pest Application Rate Bifen I/T
Armyworms¹
Cutworms¹
Sod Webworm¹
0.18 - 0.25 fluid oz. per 1000 sq. ft.

Notes
¹Armyworms, Cutworms, and Sod Webworms: Postpone irrigation or
mowing for 24 hours after application to obtain the best possible control. Higher
treatment rates (up to 1 fluid oz. per 1000 square feet) may be necessary if high
pest pressure exists and if the grass is maintained taller than 1 inch.

The label recommends a surfactant for Mites only.

If you look into the grass canopy do you see any worms in the areas surounding the dead looking areas?


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I've never used a surfactant with the Bifen XTS treatments.


----------



## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

Factor said:


> If it is Armyworms and you are using Bifen.
> 
> This is for IT not xts.
> https://www.domyown.com/msds/Bifen_IT_Label1.pdf
> ...


Yes, I did a soapy water test a couple weeks back on one of the trouble spots and a couple of sod webworms popped up.


----------



## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Subscribed. I have seen the same thing. Ironically the dead tufts and woven into excellent quality turf around it. Would be like one portion of the stem broke off diagonally from the stolon and dried up.

Sprayed a cocktail today, going to see if any improvement.


----------



## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

Targeting the webworms, you could also spray BT at dusk any night it isn't supposed to rain. You could do that every few days for a while.


----------



## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

TSGarp007 said:


> Targeting the webworms, you could also spray BT at dusk any night it isn't supposed to rain. You could do that every few days for a while.


What's BT?

Right now I'm watering in a combination of Triazicide and Bayer 24 hr Plus.

I'll spray Bifen XTS toward the end of the week since it was just applied on the 19th.


----------



## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Seems like you already have the answers you need. I will add, about twice a year, I hit the yard with 1 qt/acre bifen xts and 46% cyper TC alternating between them. Mainly due to fireant pressure from neighbors. Don't be afraid to just run the stuff at high strength. Worst it'll do is last longer.


----------



## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

Kamauxx said:


> TSGarp007 said:
> 
> 
> > Targeting the webworms, you could also spray BT at dusk any night it isn't supposed to rain. You could do that every few days for a while.
> ...


Sorry, it's a bacteria that kills webworms in certain stages. It's not harmful to anything else I don't think, and is very safe for people and animals. So you can basically spray at will. It breaks down in sunlight, that's why I say to spray at dusk. Google 'BT for webworms.'


----------



## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

TSGarp007 said:


> Kamauxx said:
> 
> 
> > TSGarp007 said:
> ...


Thanks, I'll look into it.


----------



## Factor (Oct 10, 2019)

Kamauxx said:


> TSGarp007 said:
> 
> 
> > Targeting the webworms, you could also spray BT at dusk any night it isn't supposed to rain. You could do that every few days for a while.
> ...


https://www.domyown.com/msds/MontereyBt-2-column-0911(01)_(1).pdf

*Bacillus thuringiensis* subspecies kurstaki strain SA-12 solides, spores, and insecticidal toxins, ATCC # SD - 1323 98.35%


----------



## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

@Kamauxx have you found any other ideas?

Do your spots look like this, just more wide spread ?


----------



## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

FATC1TY said:


> @Kamauxx have you found any other ideas?
> 
> Do your spots look like this, just more wide spread ?


Yep. Looks like we probably have the same problem. Your bottom picture is what mine looks like when the grass is wet. When it dries the dead pieces stand out much worst.


----------



## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

Factor said:


> Kamauxx said:
> 
> 
> > TSGarp007 said:
> ...


Thanks. I read about it earlier. I don't like the idea of having to find the webs and inject the BT into the worm holes. Seems like quite a chore compared to blanket spraying Bifen.


----------



## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Kamauxx said:


> FATC1TY said:
> 
> 
> > @Kamauxx have you found any other ideas?
> ...


So, I've attempted to follow along. I scalped probably 3 week ago, down to .2 or so.. I did some spectricide granular for insects. I did some carbon x fertilizer, and laid the water to it.

Then we got wet, I stopped the water but the evening thunderstorms and high humidity started to hit. Having no green to visualize, makes it tough to say it happened with the rain or not.

That said, I was out of PGR regulation for nearly a month, and I know you suspect that. I also hadn't fertilized in a while. Atleast 2 months!

I just sprayed 3336F, Feature, PGR @ .27 per 1k, and Bifen XTS.

About 3 days before I spread 32-2-8 fert.

I'd say my lawn has stopped this trash, but I noticed some spots with lesions and some yellowing. It's crazy spotty like dollar spot.

So I'm following you and have this thought.

Mechanical damage from Mowers, scalping, and wet/excessively dry weather. The dry parts I can just lift and untwist from the canopy. I'm cutting at .65 inches, and my groomer isn't pulling these out.

Fungus would lead me to believe it's brown patch, or pythium root rot. I can pluck these from my yard while walking around and no issues. The turf around them is extremely healthy, green, dense and doing well. Clay soils, and spots I have nearly 2 inches or more of sand have the same issues. Neighbors have fungus as well, hard to see due to poorly kept, but can't see any insect damage thus far.

The fact it's It's not wide spread, and perhaps random and not large anywhere in mine and yours, makes it kind of tough.

Pythium blight/root rot seems to fit the bill but not as severe.


----------



## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

FATC1TY said:


> Kamauxx said:
> 
> 
> > FATC1TY said:
> ...


This is interesting. I thought that maybe it was damage from the mower. Especially since it seems to be worse along the edge where I turn around and the Cali Trimmer is notorious for ripping up grass during turns when engaging/unengaging the drive wheel. However, it doesn't explain why it happens (to a lesser extent) in other parts of the lawn. But I have considered it and for my last mow I waited until after 4 pm to give the lawn as much dry time as possible (I generally mow at 11 am Saturday and 5 pm Wednesday). I'll repeat in a couple of days to see if that helps.

I can't imagine my problem being from fungus. I've made 4 applications of 3 chemicals in the last three weeks and it persists. If it's fungal it's really kicking the butt of my fungicides.

I've also noticed neither of my neighbors have the same issue. And neither of them regularly cut their lawn. That would make me think it isn't bugs if I hadn't seen the sod webworms in the lawn or the armyworm moths in the grass catcher. I think we may be attracting the bugs by caring more for the lawn than the neighbors.

About a month ago was told by @Greendoc that I might have some pythium blight so I sprayed some Armada WG on the 6th and Fosetyl-AI on the 14th. Both list pythium blight on their labels.

All I can think to do is keep using Triazicide and Bifen XTS, keep rotating the various fungicides I have, and only mow when the turf is completely dry,


----------



## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

Kamauxx said:


> Factor said:
> 
> 
> > Kamauxx said:
> ...


I'm pretty sure you can blanket spray Bt.

You could also try Spinosad.


----------



## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

@FATC1TY I just mowed the lawn and today, for the first time in a few weeks I've had less of those tufts post-mow than I had pre-mow. Based off that I'm thinking the bugs were the problem.

I'm going to spray some Biffen Saturday morning to make sure they don't come back. :thumbup:


----------



## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Kamauxx said:


> @FATC1TY I just mowed the lawn and today, for the first time in a few weeks I've had less of those tufts post-mow than I had pre-mow. Based off that I'm thinking the bugs were the problem.
> 
> I'm going to spray some Biffen Saturday morning to make sure they don't come back. :thumbup:


Was going to message you- I too have seen less and less. Granted the weather is primed for more fungus here, but I sprayed for fungus, bugs and even did PGR, and for some reason it's stopped producing dead materials. Now to just worn out the random ones in the turf.

Hope it works out for you. I'm thinking it was a combo, perhaps we will have this same issue next year. I know I recall seeing this before but not as bad.


----------



## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

Though I'm wanting to look at this season as a complete failure I'm glad I at least gained a ton of knowledge to take into next spring.

Between the new mower, fungicides, insecticides, fertilizers, PGR, etc and learning the timing/weather for when and how to use each I believe next year should be better than this year.

Things can only get better from here...I hope.


----------



## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Kamauxx said:


> Though I'm wanting to look at this season as a complete failure I'm glad I at least gained a ton of knowledge to take into next spring.
> 
> Between the new mower, fungicides, insecticides, fertilizers, PGR, etc and learning the timing/weather for when and how to use each I believe next year should be better than this year.
> 
> Things can only get better from here...I hope.


 Hope it works out! I'm on year two of my new lawn and learning more. It's tough and it's something wr can't control the conditions all the time.

Prepare, buy what's needed, and eventually it won't seem so bad. It's hard to remember from previous years but this place helps with that!


----------



## thangkhungdien (Aug 14, 2019)

I have some of dead grass similar to those pictures. Some are very easy to pull, some are pull off with little green on them. I don't see that on our neighbors. I do see during the month of June until now.


----------



## Wfrobinette (Feb 3, 2019)

FATC1TY said:


> Subscribed. I have seen the same thing. Ironically the dead tufts and woven into excellent quality turf around it. Would be like one portion of the stem broke off diagonally from the stolon and dried up.
> 
> Sprayed a cocktail today, going to see if any improvement.


I've seen the same thing ion my yard as well. But I did a scalp 3 weeks ago or so and had a dull blade on my mower,

Did the worm tests and nothing.


----------



## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Wfrobinette said:


> FATC1TY said:
> 
> 
> > Subscribed. I have seen the same thing. Ironically the dead tufts and woven into excellent quality turf around it. Would be like one portion of the stem broke off diagonally from the stolon and dried up.
> ...


I'm leaning towards fungus. I can pull up individual parts and the stolons are black or brown, small or no roots, and kind of makes me think it's TARR, or bugs.

I've seen very little insects in the yard, a few black beetles occasional dead in the yard though..

My reel is brand new and sharp all down the bedknife, but I had also done a scalp. Yard is in decent shape but lost some color, still have some of these spots like dollar spot that decline into dead grass, but very odd in that most of it has good healthy grass growing next to and over it, where I end up pulling up stolons of good grass to pluck out the dead.

Going to spray more 3336F this week, along with some RGS and Humic, and some Bifen XTS and stop worrying about it. It's end of the season anyways, with about another 4 weeks of green unless it gets cooler sooner.


----------

