# Large yard renovation (Final update)



## epac90 (Dec 14, 2020)

Guys,

I'm planning to do a massive yard re-model this spring/summer. We built a house and moved in back in May, and the yard right now is probably somewhere around 3 to 4 acres. After we moved in, I had some Tifway 419 sod installed all the way around the house, somewhere around 10,000 sq ft total. We built the house in what used to be a hay pasture, and we are on a hill so the sod was mandatory to keep all of our dirt from washing away and give us some instant yard. Most of what is in the rest of the pasture now is Bahia and some other pasture grasses.

My plan at the moment is to wait for things to start greening up, then start smoking off all the bahia and other field grass with glyphosate, at least 2 applications a couple of weeks apart to make sure everything is dead. I then plan to make multiple passes with a tiller to till it all up, then hit it with a harrow to smooth it up. After I've got everything killed, tilled, and smoothed up, I'll spread the seed and maybe run back over it with a cultipacker (haven't found if that is needed yet, still researching).

I should note as well that I plan to do this in sections, probably 3/4 to 1 acre at a time just so I can manage it better and keep sprinklers on it until I can get a good stand.

I have scoured this forum and other sites for days, and as much as I would love to do Arden-15 like most people on this site, it's just not in the budget for a lawn this size. This lawn is also non-irrigated and will be dependent on the rain. I feel like due to the size of my yard, seeding is definitely the best option. All of this brings me to my main question: Which bermuda seed should I go with? I'm looking for something that is reasonably priced, and would match decently with my Tifway 419. I understand that nothing will perfectly match my sod, and if I had the money to sod the entire yard with 419 I wouldn't be making this post. I have found 1 reference elsewhere on this site that mentioned Sahara II as being a very good "bang for your buck" seed, but I can't find much information on it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Also, a few lawn pics for reference. I don't have any good ones unfortunately of the rest of the yard while things were greened up, but here's a few I snapped a couple of days ago while everything is dormant.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I would not consider doing any seed since it will be very obvious next to the 419. I would go out and buy a Sunjoe dethatcher and use the straight blades to verticut the 419, then spread the sprigs doing an limited area at a time. This will allow you to have better control of irrigation while the sprigs are establishing and it will match perfectly with your 419. You could just continue to expand your yard little by little and before you know it, you'll have a solid stand of Bermuda throughout.

Do some research on some sprigging threads here. There are some very impressive ones on this site.


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## epac90 (Dec 14, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> I would not consider doing any seed since it will be very obvious next to the 419. I would go out and buy a Sunjoe dethatcher and use the straight blades to verticut the 419, then spread the sprigs doing an limited area at a time. This will allow you to have better control of irrigation while the sprigs are establishing and it will match perfectly with your 419. You could just continue to expand your yard little by little and before you know it, you'll have a solid stand of Bermuda throughout.
> 
> Do some research on some sprigging threads here. There are some very impressive ones on this site.


Thank you. I have looked into using plugs before, but have not done much research on sprigging. Plugging did not seem viable for large acreage, so I guess I assumed sprigging was the same. Can sprigs be bought in large quantities in from a sod farm? I feel like with my small amount of established 419, it would take forever to get enough sprigs off of it to sprig my entire yard. If sprigs can be purchased at a reasonable price, then that seems like the way to go.

Also to note, I have a 50hp tractor with access to tons of different implements. I assume there are probably some other implements that could do this faster than the sun joe device you linked?


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

You could check with your local golf courses regarding getting sprigs from them but they may not have 419. Local sod farms is another possible source if they aerate or verticut. Also, there are certainly bigger implements than the Sunjoe. Just about everything out there is bigger than the Sunjoe. I was just recommending it because it would break up the fill into bite size sections that you could easily irrigate.


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## Crash22 (Apr 9, 2020)

I've read that Princess 77 or Yukon seed matches pretty well with Tiff419. I'm in a similar boat as you with trying to do a large lawn reno with some established 419 sod and wanting to try to find a seed that matches fairly well. But I've not done enough research into it to be able to really stand behind that though, maybe some of our lawn Jedi can offer their take on the princess/yukon option?


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## epac90 (Dec 14, 2020)

Crash22 said:


> I've read that Princess 77 or Yukon seed matches pretty well with Tiff419. I'm in a similar boat as you with trying to do a large lawn reno with some established 419 sod and wanting to try to find a seed that matches fairly well. But I've not done enough research into it to be able to really stand behind that though, maybe some of our lawn Jedi can offer their take on the princess/yukon option?


@Crash22 I've been doing a ton of research on this and looked into sprigging as @Redtwin suggested. I called my local sod guy and he was very helpful in explaining what he thought I should do, and right now it does make the most sense to me.

He warned me away from sprigging. Not because it doesn't work, but because he only cuts sprigs a few times a year and typically only does so for very big jobs that have good irrigation in place. Assuming all soil prep work has already been done and you have the equipment available, he suggested to buy pallets of sod (6 pallets per acre), and lay them down in rows with particular spacing (can give details if you'd like). Once you have the sod laid down, use a tiller and till the sod up into the soil, and the tiller will distribute the stolons in between the gaps and can have a full stand of bermuda in 1 season.

The major advantages of this method vs sprigging is it is more forgiving water wise, since you are also getting an inch or more of top soil to add into the ground and also helps keep the grass moist in the meantime. Sprigs need to be handled immediately and kept wet at all times. Also, sod in my area is pretty cheap ($80 per pallet for 419), so this method actually works out to be cheaper than seeding, and I'll also have 419 everywhere instead of a mixture of cultivars.

I'm about to start my prep work, so I'll post updates as soon as I can.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

epac90 said:


> ...Assuming all soil prep work has already been done and you have the equipment available, he suggested to buy pallets of sod (6 pallets per acre), and lay them down in rows with particular spacing (can give details if you'd like). Once you have the sod laid down, use a tiller and till the sod up into the soil, and the tiller will distribute the stolons in between the gaps and can have a full stand of bermuda in 1 season...


That's a really cool idea!


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## epac90 (Dec 14, 2020)

UPDATE:

It's been a while since I originally posted, but here's my follow up progress so far. Needless to say, I've been very busy!

In early May, I decided to start killing off my entire front yard which consisted mostly of Bahia grass and weeds. The Bahia was surprising resilient, but did finally die after several rounds of glyphosate. Right now, the total area that I decided to renovate is about 30,000 sq ft. I would like to have done more, but couldn't due to irrigation limitations.

I did a total of 3 rounds of glyphosate, each about 2 weeks apart. That smoked things off pretty good and I decided to move forward with dirt work and prep. In addition to just getting the dirt prepared, I also had some areas I had to do some leveling on as well as rework an area around a culvert that needed lots of finishing work.

Here's where the trouble began. I had planned to do the method I mentioned in a previous post where I would essentially sprig the sod with my tiller, but it never worked out. The local sod company was completely unwilling to work with me and gave me the worst customer service I'd ever received. Long story short, after being dragged through the mud and put off for over a month, I give them an earful and moved on. I simply could not buy any sod to do the sprigging method, and was left with no choice except seeding.

I needed something right then, and at that time none of the good seed was available online either. I couldn't justify the price of Arden 15 for the area I have, so I went to my local farm supply store and they carried a Pennington variety of hybrid bermuda called Mohawk. It was fairly cheap and is supposed to be very finely textured and dark green, so I'm hoping it will match my tifway 419 decently. I'm not expecting a perfect match, but it will have to be 100% better than the bahia that was there. I was able to snag a few 25lb bags of this for $139 each, which is significantly cheaper than it is online. I ended up putting out about 60lbs of seed and have some more saved for bare areas I can reseed later if needed.

As mentioned in an earlier post, I am lucky enough to have access to a plethora of farm tools. First, I tilled up the entire area and got all of the dirt loose. I then dragged a harrow over it multiple times to help settle and pack it back down. Per the planting instructions on the bag, it also wanted the area to ran over with a cultipacker before AND after seeding, which I did. I think the cultipacker was a very critical step in this process, as it created very small little ridges that almost acted like a gold sluice and held my seed in place and give it that good seed to soil contact needed.

I was very worried that the big rain I had after seeding had washed all of my seed away, and I'm sure some did wash, but I have excellent germination and it is coming up like crazy almost everywhere. I am very pleased so far with the progress. I do have crabgrass and some other weeds coming up too, but I can fix that later by spraying it.









Stomach was churning after this. 2" of rain in a thunderstorm only a day or 2 after seeding. So much for 20% chance of rain right?


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## epac90 (Dec 14, 2020)

UPDATE 2:

Today is Day 10 after seeding. I'm seeing excellent results so far and lots of germination. I'm about to throw the fertilizer to it heavy and make it really grow! It's hard to see in the pictures, but I can see good bermuda coverage now on almost the whole area, especially early in the morning with all the dew on it.

Day 5: First signs of germination!









Day 10 pics below. Seeing lots of bermuda now and every morning it seems like there's more.


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## Automate (Aug 14, 2020)

Glad the seeding is working out for you. You may want to check out Jason Creel's video where he randomly scattered sod around his acreage similar to your original plan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4s6KiXmyeM


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## epac90 (Dec 14, 2020)

Automate said:


> Glad the seeding is working out for you. You may want to check out Jason Creel's video where he randomly scattered sod around his acreage similar to your original plan.


I absolutely would have went this route if it had been at all possible. I only have 2 sod farms that are somewhat local to me, and neither would work with me at all. They both told me it was an insanely busy year and essentially they didn't have time to deal with individuals and "would get to me when they could". The logistics just didn't work out unfortunately and I reached my wits end trying to be patient with them, not to mention losing almost a month of prime growing season.

I think the seed route is going to work out in the end. I realize it's not as good of a cultivar as the 419 I have currently, but I do believe it will be much better than common bermuda and will mesh well with the tifway I have around the house. It's frustrating, but the wife and I are both tired of having mud for a front yard and are ready to see some green again :lol:


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## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

Great job. I'm a fan of seeding so I enjoyed the pics and commentary. As you say, I bet you're very happy with it in the end. It's going to really look great in another couple of months and probably sooner than that. There's something about that day 17 to 21 or so when it really explodes and in just a few days starts to look like a lawn, from a distance anyway.


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## epac90 (Dec 14, 2020)

Chocolate Lab said:


> Great job. I'm a fan of seeding so I enjoyed the pics and commentary. As you say, I bet you're very happy with it in the end. It's going to really look great in another couple of months and probably sooner than that. There's something about that day 17 to 21 or so when it really explodes and in just a few days starts to look like a lawn, from a distance anyway.


Thanks!! I'm glad you're enjoying it. It's coming along great and still growing like crazy. We're at day 11 or 12 now, and I just put down 150lbs of 13-13-13 on it so it should really take off as soon as it gets some water (they are calling for rain tonight, fingers crossed). I've definitely got some weed problems, but I have some Celsius on the way which I believe will take care of 90%+ of that. I'll be posting some more progress pics soon.


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## theguybrarian (Apr 11, 2020)

Be careful with hitting it with Celsius too early. I seeded Arden 15 on May 23rd. I've got plenty of weeds that I want to spray out (looking at you, spurge), but I'm being cautious with the time interval. I'm probably safe to do it now, but I'm waiting a few more weeks. Here's a shot of the label:


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## epac90 (Dec 14, 2020)

theguybrarian said:


> Be careful with hitting it with Celsius too early. I seeded Arden 15 on May 23rd. I've got plenty of weeds that I want to spray out (looking at you, spurge), but I'm being cautious with the time interval. I'm probably safe to do it now, but I'm waiting a few more weeks. Here's a shot of the label:


Yep, I noticed this on the bottle as well. I've got at least 3 weeks before I can spray it since it's been 1 week since it emerged, and I'll probably hit it with the "low" application rate as well just to be safe. I'm overrun with weeds right now but unfortunately there's nothing I can do but wait and pray that the weeds don't choke my bermuda out. One thing I've been pondering though is do you think it would be safe to up the rate to say medium application rate, or should I just stick with low since it's very young?

I can also do a couple of split apps of low/medium rate, but just trying to figure out how heavy I can spray it without damaging my young bermuda. I'm thinking a split app of low rate, maybe 3-4 weeks apart? Progress pic below.

Day 14 after seeding. Lots of green, but also lots of weeds. Can see the dark green patches on the right along the driveway that's mostly nutsedge. I know the Celsius won't kill it, but something I'll have to address at some point. I really hate to spend the money on Certainty as well, but I may have to. Maybe try some Sedgehammer first?

Also, the instructions on the bag also said "ready for first mow 3 weeks after seeding". I was very skeptical and thought there was no way that could be true, but it looks like I'm going to be proven wrong! I suspect I'll be doing my first mow towards the end of this coming week.



Have several areas that are completely overrun with whatever broadleaf this is below. Not exactly sure what it is, but I'm hoping the Celsius will smoke it. Really wished I could spray it now since its very thick in some spots and I'm sure its obstructing my bermuda growth.


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## epac90 (Dec 14, 2020)

Day 19 update:

Mowed it yesterday for the second time and wow, this stuff is thick! I am amazed at how well it has filled in and it's only been 19 days since I've seeded it. There are a few spots that still need to fill in around the edges but overall, I pretty much have a full yard again now. I didn't realize how tall it was and how fast it had grown, and cut it at the lowest my zero turn will go (about 1.5").

I cut way too much off in some spots but I'm not too worried about it since I want it to spread and am trying to push lateral growth hard. I'll probably go back to 2" cut though as I was taking off probably half or more of the grass blade in some areas and while it doesn't look scalped, it definitely lost the color it had before I cut it. It's bermuda though and I'm sure it will rebound quite quickly as you can't really kill the stuff.

I now have nowhere near as many weeds as I thought I was going to have. I'll still be doing a blanket spray of Celsius to kill whatever is left in a few weeks, but the bermuda is doing a fantastic job of choking out the weeds on its own.


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## Deltahedge (Apr 1, 2020)

Looking great!


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

Great results!


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## epac90 (Dec 14, 2020)

Day 39 update:

A lot has happened since I last posted! We have had perfect conditions for establishing grass the past month in northeast MS as it has rained almost every day and has been 90+ degrees with high humidity. Needless to say, it has been a tremendous amount of work and I almost have not been able to keep up with the amount the mowing needed. I will 100% be applying PGR next year!

2 weeks ago, I walked out to go mow and noticed that all of my new grass looked dead. I could not figure out what happened as it had looked perfect a couple of days before. Initially, I thought it was fungus as the weather here has been crazy hot, raining everyday, and so humid that you can't breathe. I continued on and kept mowing, racking my brain as to what could be the cause....then I saw it. Army worms by the thousands! They were so thick that they were caked on my mower deck and there were so many that it looked like the wind was moving the grass. I've never had this issue before but talking to others in the area, it sounds like this year was a particularly bad year for them as they were destroying hay fields almost overnight. Luckily I had some Bifenthrin on hand and sprayed the entire area. Needless to say, they were all dead the by the next morning.

A few days later, I put out 150lbs of 24-8-12 fertilizer (1.2lbs of N per 1k) on it and it took off like a rocket ship. Since then, I've been having to mow every other day at 2" HOC just to keep up with it, but it has helped it thicken up and spread immensely. The nitrogen really helped it darken up as well and I believe it is going to match my Tifway nicely once it matures and get it on the same fertilizer schedule as it.

I have a bottle of Certainty on the way, and once that is here I plan to hit it with the Celsius/Certainty/Prodiamine combo. I'd like to do a high rate of Celsius, but I'm a little scared since the grass is young and I don't want to risk damaging it. My plan is to hit it with the medium rate of Celsius. I think the only real weed problem I have that would need the high rate is Crabgrass, but I don't even really care about that as the prodiamine will completely stop it next year. Has anyone on here had luck with Celsius on crabgrass at the medium rate? Or do you guys think it would be ok to go ahead and hit it with the high rate?


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

impressive!


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Very nice!!!


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## rbrownjr5 (Aug 1, 2021)

@epac90 @redtwin @Crash22
Anyone of you try the sod & til method? Or can you elaborate on this. Searched the forum but could t find more detail. Any help or info is appreciated!


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Are you talking about sprigging? I have never heard of anyone sodding and then tilling.


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## littlehuman (Jun 10, 2020)

Wow, fantastic progress! You should start a lawn journal here!


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## rbrownjr5 (Aug 1, 2021)

@redtwin yes sprigging I'm an
Idiot so bare with me! Lol


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

@rbrownjr5 No problem... I figured that's what you meant but had to make sure. There are some on here who have done very large areas with a pallet of sod and a wood chipper. If I remember correctly, @Deltahedge was one.


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## Deltahedge (Apr 1, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> @rbrownjr5 No problem... I figured that's what you meant but had to make sure. There are some on here who have done very large areas with a pallet of sod and a wood chipper. If I remember correctly, @Deltahedge was one.


I have a 3 acre yard, and I'm preparing a small area to plant sprigs this week or next, but I haven't completed a large sprig project.

@cglarsen has done it before at the following thread.
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19639


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## Aubuild (May 30, 2019)

Man! That looks so good!


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## epac90 (Dec 14, 2020)

rbrownjr5 said:


> @epac90 @redtwin @Crash22
> Anyone of you try the sod & til method? Or can you elaborate on this. Searched the forum but could t find more detail. Any help or info is appreciated!


@rbrownjr5 This was the method I was originally wanted to go with, and described it in detail in a comment on the first page of this thread. I actually got the information from the person who runs the local sod farm and he says this is essentially how he sprigs his entire fields. He had some very specific measurements and according to him, you could sprig 1 acre of bermuda with only 6 pallets of sod doing this method.

Space them 6ft apart IN the rows, and 3ft BETWEEN the rows, lay them longways and till it in the direction of the rows. No need to be real precise according to him, just throw down the squares. It's honestly pretty similar to the sod in a wood chipper route, but probably easier if you have access to a 3-point tiller of some kind. Your tiller is essentially doing all the sprigging/chipping/spreading for you, and throwing the sprigs/stolons in between the 6ft gap.

Unfortunately the sod company would never work with me on actually delivering the sod so I ended up having to go the seed route. I wished it would have worked out but I lost over a month of prime growing season waiting on a delivery "just any day now".


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## epac90 (Dec 14, 2020)

littlehuman said:


> Wow, fantastic progress! You should start a lawn journal here!


Thanks!! Agreed, I need to do that. This will be a multi-year project as I can only irrigate about .75 - 1 acre at a time. I'm just waiting on my Certainty to be delivered now. I'll be posting some final updates in several weeks once I hit it with the Celsius/Certainty/Prodiamine combo and it has time to recover. I'm ready to get these weeds gone!


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## epac90 (Dec 14, 2020)

Guys,

Gonna give one final update for the season then I'll probably convert all of this to a lawn journal going forward. I've still got several acres left to go and hope to do even more next year!

On 08/09, I blanket sprayed Celsius at medium rate and Certainty at 1.25oz per acre. To say I was impressed is an understatement. It knocked out almost all of my weeds except some crabgrass and goosegrass I had and did no harm to my bermuda at all. I was very skeptical that it was going to work as well as it did, but I'm definitely a believer now. The Celsius smoked the virginia buttonweed that had spread like wildfire, and the Certainty nuked all of my purple nutsedge. I figure I'll have to do this again for the next few seasons as these 2 weeds are very hard to eliminate completely, but for right now it has done the trick. I haven't decided yet if I will do another Celsius app to clean up the lingering broadleafs I have, or if I'll just wait till it cools down some and blanket spray Trimec. I'm leaning more towards the Trimec right now as we should start beginning to have cooler weather soon and I'd like to save the expensive Celsius for middle-of-summer apps.

As with most everyone else, army worms have been insanely bad this year and I've had to spray Bifen a total of 3 times now. I hope we are done with them here but who knows. I'll be putting down some prodiamine soon and considering putting down some simazine this fall also. I'm thinking at this point as well that I will deal with the goosegrass/crabgrass this year, and see how much I have resurface after putting down pre-emergent. If it's a major problem again next year, I'll look into some post treatment for it but I'm hopeful that the pre-emergent will stop the majority.

3 weeks post Celsius/Certainty app:


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## ramdaspadhye (Jul 18, 2021)

Looks amazing! Great job!


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## Slim 1938 (Aug 24, 2019)

Great job! I call that a huge success.


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