# Interesting Observation. Looking for Thoughts.



## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

We've owned our house for just over 3 years but this will be the 4th season that I will be taking care of my turf. I've never noticed this before and I'm assuming it's because of this mild winter we are having.

Can anyone spot my septic tank?? Haha 
I haven't seen this before until this year. This is obviously speeding up the soil temps.

I've also noticed this, in this small section that is greening up rather quickly. Is this crabgrass, annual rye, quackgrass?? I'm concerned it's quack. I've never had to really battle quack before.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

I have a feeling I'm totally effed here. I've got a feeling that this is quackgrass. I just busted my back this past fall getting rid of POA T and now this? Welp my night is ruined


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The last image has the clasping auricles. Quack or annual ryegrass.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

g-man said:


> The last image has the clasping auricles. Quack or annual ryegrass.


Thanks Gman. Is there any other way I can narrow it down? Basically what other characteristics would there be between quack and annual rye?

This is more concerning than I thought. I actually walked around and really zeroed on the lawn and noticed it's in A LOT more areas than I thought.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

This is one of the problems as you gain more experience in lawn care. Once you recognize it, you will notice it. It was probably there all along, but now you know.

The weed cool season thread has more id tools/websites.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

g-man said:


> This is one of the problems as you gain more experience in lawn care. Once you recognize it, you will notice it. It was probably there all along, but now you know.
> 
> The weed cool season thread has more id tools/websites.


Well it seems like it's one or the other after looking around. Which either situation isn't good. Has there been any luck with using "cultural practices" to actual choke out or kill this crap off? Or is that just lip service? Having no herbicides to kill it off selectively, that's pretty much my only option. Doing another reno isn't in the cards for a while, especially after doing one 6 months ago.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

According to LCN/JTLK, it's worth a try. They are advocating (based mostly upon Allyn's field experience) taking the HOC down to around 2 in actual cut in the affected area, and mowing as often as humanly possible (e.g. 3 times a week) for about 6 weeks (maybe longer) to try to control it through mowing. I would think a push mower is ideal for this...

If that is what you have in the lawn. I'm not saying it is/isn't.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Green said:


> According to LCN/JTLK, it's worth a try. They are advocating (based mostly upon Allyn's field experience) taking the HOC down to around 2 in actual cut in the affected area, and mowing as often as humanly possible (e.g. 3 times a week) for about 6 weeks (maybe longer) to try to control it through mowing. I would think a push mower is ideal for this...
> 
> If that is what you have in the lawn. I'm not saying it is/isn't.


Thanks Green. I did watch both videos. I wonder if Jake was able to get rid of the quackgrass issue altogether. There really wasn't much follow up after, that I could find at least. The hope that I have is that my turf is really thick. Some portions of the lawn I overseeded with SSS TTTF/KBG. The other portion was just tttf. I know that tttf doesn't spread but I'm hoping it chokes it out. I'll have to better asses it when the temps kick into full spring mode. I don't mind swabbing the weeds with glypho at little at a time if it's something that can be managed that way. I'm really hoping that it isn't as bad as I think it is. I asses my lawn very well every year since I've had it and this is the first time I've seen this pop up.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Hope is not a strategy. Just very carefully paint the leaves of the ones you see now that it is easier to see. Don't try to get them all this year.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

g-man said:


> Hope is not a strategy. Just very carefully paint the leaves of the ones you see now that it is easier to see. Don't try to get them all this year.


Agreed. Would it be advisable to let the stalks grow higher to be easier to paint and lessen the chance of damaging the good turf?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Please document this all as you go through the process!


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Green said:


> Please document this all as you go through the process!


Absolutely. Another chapter is turf care!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

I started with painting it with glyphosate and quickly realized there's no way I'd be able to paint it all but it definitely helped. I then started mowing lower last year and it has disappeared from my lawn with the exception of a couple plants I catch in the spring now and quickly paint. I honestly never thought I'd get rid of it but mowing low did the trick for me.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

synergy0852 said:


> I started with painting it with glyphosate and quickly realized there's no way I'd be able to paint it all but it definitely helped. I then started mowing lower last year and it has disappeared from my lawn with the exception of a couple plants I catch in the spring now and quickly paint. I honestly never thought I'd get rid of it but mowing low did the trick for me.


This is comforting to hear. This has been a pretty deflating experience. I feel like I'm going to be in the same boat as you. I don't want to get ahead of myself but I think it's going to be much more than I think. I have a blend of TTTF, KBG and some PRG. I overseeded last fall with SSS KBG and TTTF. 
If you don't mind me asking about your experience, how low was HOC? what grass type do you have? How long did it take to get it under control? Any additional info would be greatly appreciated.

I know that TTTF doesn't like getting cut low but given that it's still dormant, I might be able to train the TTTF to accept a 3" cut.

I usually stay in the 3.5-4" range, especially in the dog days of summer heat.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

I basically have the same mix as you, maybe more kbg than the others. I took it down to 2.5" with my rotary and saw some results but not great. I am now reel mowing usually around 5/8" to 3/4". TTTF is still alive but I can tell it's stressed from the low cut, but I prefer KBG anyways so it wouldn't bother me if the TTTF died. It wasn't until I started reel mowing that it was eradicated, still might be possible rotary mowed though, I just don't have personal experience with that specific route.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

synergy0852 said:


> I basically have the same mix as you, maybe more kbg than the others. I took it down to 2.5" with my rotary and saw some results but not great. I am now reel mowing usually around 5/8" to 3/4". TTTF is still alive but I can tell it's stressed from the low cut, but I prefer KBG anyways so it wouldn't bother me if the TTTF died. It wasn't until I started reel mowing that it was eradicated, still might be possible rotary mowed though, I just don't have personal experience with that specific route.


Thanks for sharing. I will be cutting it at 3" and see how it goes. I'm mostly likely going to let it grow out since it grows faster than turf to see how severe it is. I'm going to swab as much as I can little by little with glypho. I have a feeling that it came from the hay that I used for my reno. I had wheat grass pop up few weeks after seed down but I wasn't worried with that since it would die off once it got cold but this is different. Either way, the weed doesn't look easy to remove.

Thinking out loud, would PGR have any positive effect to quackgrass since it needs sunlight to grow? Basically my thought process is that if you chop it down, spray PGR regulator to give your turf the benefits of it but also could technically "weaken" the quackgrass since it's cut down and keep it cut down, no?

Or would it help it root better, similar to turf?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Scagfreedom48z+, if you have uneven ground, your actual HOC is going to be lower in many places than what your blade suggests. For example, if I use the 2.75-inch setting on one of my mowers, the actual blade height is 2.6 inches, but areas get scalped down to 1 inch or even lower in some spots (which I try to avoid by doing the edges at a higher setting). If I do this carefully, I can do it for the first few mows in the Spring, no problem. So 2.5 inches or so is just fine for the TTTF when it's vigorous as long as it's actually getting cut at that height, and not scalped.

Maybe the strategy could be...paint the heck out of the stuff now while you can see it better. Then when you start mowing, try to stay between 2.0-3 inches as long as possible (into May?), and keep painting the stuff in between some of the mows when it pops up again (but be careful not to spread the herbicide around with your mower...wait a day or two before mowing again).

Also, there's no reason to mow the entire lawn lower...just the affected area.

I painted some weedy grass in a small spot last Fall, and now I have a dead-looking spot even though I was super careful and actually cut the good grass out with scissors first as much as I could. There is some green coming back, so it might not be dead, but stressed. We'll see how much comes back. Not a big deal...it's a small area.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Green said:


> @Scagfreedom48z+, if you have uneven ground, your actual HOC is going to be lower in many places than what your blade suggests. For example, if I use the 2.75-inch setting on one of my mowers, the actual blade height is 2.6 inches, but areas get scalped down to 1 inch or even lower in some spots (which I try to avoid by doing the edges at a higher setting). If I do this carefully, I can do it for the first few mows in the Spring, no problem. So 2.5 inches or so is just fine for the TTTF when it's vigorous as long as it's actually getting cut at that height, and not scalped.
> 
> Maybe the strategy could be...paint the heck out of the stuff now while you can see it better. Then when you start mowing, try to stay between 2.0-3 inches as long as possible (into May?), and keep painting the stuff in between some of the mows when it pops up again (but be careful not to spread the herbicide around with your mower...wait a day or two before mowing again).
> 
> ...


Thanks Green. I've had that issue with my lawn tractor. It cuts at 3" in certain spots and scalps in others, especially when it reach the top of my slope. With my zero turn, not so much. It's a nice even cut. I agree with your thought on getting to training the grass early at a lower HOC. This might be an elementary question but is there any special technique you used to paint the weeds and soften the blow to your surround good turf grass? I'm wondering if buying a cotton glove would work. Wearing a couple of rubber gloves to buffer the skin to Glypho contact, throwing a thin cotton glove over it and dampening the outer cotton glove with glypho. I think just touching a few leaves with your soaked fingers would do the trick and make it quicker to boot. I see this in the operating room all the time with surgeons during surgical procedures. They will use sterile cotton gloves, over their latex gloves for better instrument grip and handling.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Scagfreedom48z+, I've heard of that exact method you thought of being used before.

As far as mowing height, no special techniques other than making sure you don't scalp, and you mow often enough. You should be able to get away with it during Spring. I tend to mow between 2.6 and 3.25 inches in Spring, anyway. Eventually it gets away from me like in May, and I have to go higher. And then of course in the actual Summer, I even sometimes go to 4 inches, like you, and keep it there for a few months.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Green said:


> @Scagfreedom48z+, I've heard of that exact method you thought of being used before.
> 
> As far as mowing height, no special techniques other than making sure you don't scalp, and you mow often enough. You should be able to get away with it during Spring. I tend to mow between 2.6 and 3.25 inches in Spring, anyway. Eventually it gets away from me like in May, and I have to go higher. And then of course in the actual Summer, I even sometimes go to 4 inches, like you, and keep it there for a few months.


I did post this question to synergy, did you try PGR during your experience? Like you and others have stated about mowing low and weakening the weed from constantly cutting it over and over, wouldn't hitting it with PGR have the same effect? Cutting it low and keeping it there?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Scagfreedom48z+ I do use t-nex and started using it before reel mowing, but I did not notice it helping with the quack grass the one year I used it while rotary mowing. As painfully slow as it is I think painting it with glyphosate it the best option when rotary mowing.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

synergy0852 said:


> @Scagfreedom48z+ I do use t-nex and started using it before reel mowing, but I did not notice it helping with the quack grass the one year I used it while rotary mowing. As painfully slow as it is I think painting it with glyphosate it the best option when rotary mowing.


Thank you. I'm definitely going to do a little at a time. Using the idea of the cotton glove makes me believe that I will get more of it accomplished at a time than using a brush. We've all hand picked weeds before and it's pretty impressive how much we can get done in an hour of picking. Even though I'm not hand picking the weeds but touching them with glypho is essentially the same process but easier.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The cotton glove works, just make sure it is not dripping wet and that you don't loose your balance. There are other similar options with a PVC pipe and cloth/rope at the bottom (so you don't bend).


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> I did post this question to synergy, did you try PGR during your experience? Like you and others have stated about mowing low and weakening the weed from constantly cutting it over and over, wouldn't hitting it with PGR have the same effect? Cutting it low and keeping it there?


Me? I don't believe I've ever dealt with quackgrass, personally. There were some things over the last few years, but I don't think any of them were it. I'm just conveying info I got from LCN and some experience killing other weedy grasses by painting. One thing I took away from doing that is just paint the tips, like an inch or two. Also don't dilute the glyphosate with water. Use it full strength plus a little ammonium sulfate in it. Full strength drips less. I'm always paranoid I'm going to spill it. You only need a light coating. Most importantly, be careful.

I don't know if PGR would do anything against it. You really want it to grow higher than the good grass so you can paint it and/or cut it again once it grows.

Maybe you could run an experiment on a small section to see how it reacts to PGR.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

How long would be recommended to leave the glypho on the quackgrass before mowing?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> How long would be recommended to leave the glypho on the quackgrass before mowing?


Probably a good 2 days at least. Longer if you can, especially in this cooler weather, as it's slower.


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