# New guy from Canada



## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Hi all stumbled across this forum seeking help for my terrible lawn. My neighbor has beautiful grass and its frustrating me lol. He told me just to out down some Scott's max green and water it twice a day. I did that and did some overseeding and literally it looks thr same in 2 weeks. I habe so much weeds help!!! Lol pics attached. The nice grass is his. The bastard, jk.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

You will get more answers and visibility if this is moved to the cool season forum. Let me know if you want us to move it. Cheers and welcome to TLF!


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

dfw_pilot said:


> You will get more answers and visibility if this is moved to the cool season forum. Let me know if you want us to move it. Cheers and welcome to TLF!


Ya that would be great thank you.

I didnt want to spam the wrong section.. Thank you,


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

@WB Media Done. Welcome to TLF!


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Welcome to TLF.

The first thing I will say is your grass isn't going to improve in 2 weeks. It's a process.

Secondly, now isn't really the time to do too much to your lawn. We are getting into the hottest days and your grass really just wants to go dormant.

I would read the cool season guide on here and get familiar with proper cultural practices.

Watering twice a day is the LAST thing you should be doing. Deeply and infrequently is the mantra. 2-3 times per week. The goal is to get 1 to 1.5" of water down per week.

I would do an irrigation audit - find out how long it takes to get 0.25" down. I would then tackle your weed issue. Check out Lawnproducts.ca and get the Killex weed killer - the stuff you get at box box stores here are useless.

Plan to do an overseed in mid August. You will need your irrigation methods dialed in for this.

Hold off on any more fertilizer this month and July.

But your first goal is to read the cool season guide.

Good luck. Fire off any questions!


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Welcome!


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## Mikelawkent (Jun 6, 2017)

Welcome bud,

As a fellow new guy to lawn care I can attest to the challenges of lawn care within Canada. I too had a horrendous lawn when i took possession of my house here in BC and have spent the last 3 years (spring and falls) renovating my lawn.

Harts makes some very good points. I will add the following though:

1) Conduct a soil test. do a google search for a testing place near you to send samples. this will help you understand what is going on in your soil in a huge way.
2) Hart is correct, you will not do much to a lawn in two weeks. Additionally with the summer heat your lawn may start to go dormant for the Summer. The high heat will cause stress in the lawn and it will struggle with growth. It's just nature. 
3)Again Hart is correct, a lot of the broad leaf weeds that i see in the pictures will be rid of by a application or two of either Killex or Weed-b-gon. Found Killex to work most effective. 
4) Start building a plan for the fall. That will be an ideal time for starting your reno. There will be a lot of work, but by spring next year, you will see results. Rent a dethatch and use and aerator before seeding. It will help your sends get to the soil and create new plants.
5) Youtube. Check out guys like Grass daddy, Ryan knorr, Connor Ward. etc. These guys have some great information in their videos. They are mostly from the US with access to much different supplies, but you will get a great idea from them. 
6) Sharpen your mower blades. Depending on the mower you have (rotary or reel) make sure you have sharp blades and know how to keep them sharp. 
7) Most importantly, be patient and don't give up.

Hope this helps you get moving in the right direction. Got any questions just ask the people here. They are a great resource.


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## Mikelawkent (Jun 6, 2017)

My back lawn looked like your. here is what 3 years of time and hard work looks like.


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Amazing man


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## rjjrmiller (Jun 4, 2020)

WB Media said:


> Hi all stumbled across this forum seeking help for my terrible lawn. My neighbor has beautiful grass and its frustrating me lol. He told me just to out down some Scott's max green and water it twice a day. I did that and did some overseeding and literally it looks thr same in 2 weeks. I habe so much weeds help!!! Lol pics attached. The nice grass is his. The bastard, jk.


Welcome from Montreal, I'm still pretty new also.
I started caring for my lawn September last season.

We learn from our mistakes, here was my big "new guy" error in lawn care.

First time I finally found some 2,4-d weed killer I felt like a kid who has a giant bag of Candy and heard rumors if eats too much, he can get sick. "Just eat a little candy and wait 2 weeks to eat a little more." Except this candy the kid finally found candy was REAL candy with REAL SUGAR he and all his friends aren't allowed to have, because its got real sugar inside. Until now he's never had candy with real sugar before. Never even seen real sugar candy, the closest to real candy was called Fiesta and he and all his friends figured out quickly that Fiesta is fake. All this made real sugar candy seem extra special so it is even harder to resist eating too much, too fast...and getting sick.

And so I applied Killex repeatedly at stronger concentrations and my lawn got sick. If I'd just had more patience, more information or been willing to ask questions here.

I knew herbicides could hurt my lawn, but I didn't know it took so long to see results. Why isn't it working? Even Fiesta did something by now. I started thinking that Killex had lowered the amount of active ingredients in Canada to comply with the Canadian herbicide restrictions....

My lawn turned piss yellow...my wife used those exact words to describe the color "piss yellow" and she never swears, it's the only time she said "piss" to me.

Maybe my big mistake can help someone. I think the nicest lawns learned to throw down patience more than anything else.


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Cool post man thanks.

I know this isnt the best time. But im going yo do it anyways. I got time and money to burn.

Im going to pluck all weeds with a fiskar, dethatch the dry/dorment areas, then aerate lawn. Then not sure if this correct, broadcast spread some top soil, then scotts green max, then some scotts seeds then broadcast spread peat moss all over lawn, then water twice a day.

Does this above process seem right??


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Also should i use scotts green max or scotts turf builder? Any difference?


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

Don't apply high nitrogen synthetic fertilizer right now.

If you can find an organic fertilizer, apply that.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

As for the two ferts you mentioned, I prefer the green max, but I only use it early season.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

WB Media said:


> Cool post man thanks.
> 
> I know this isnt the best time. But im going yo do it anyways. I got time and money to burn.
> 
> ...


Sorry if this is too direct but I think that's a big waste of time and money. I understood you may have both in abundance but honestly man, wait until August and do it right. Read the over seed guide, if you haven't already. Watering twice a day won't be near enough in the early going. Applying nitrogen to an overseed will only cause your existing grass to grow and out compete the new grass.

Sounds like you just want to do something for the sake of doing something. My advice is just wait 6 more weeks and learn as much as you can. You will be in a much better position for success.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Harts said:


> WB Media said:
> 
> 
> > Cool post man thanks.
> ...


This is good advice. Op should listen to this.


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Great advice but ive been giving it TLC and it looks way better.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Keep giving it TLC and shoot for an over seed mid-August. By the beginning of October, you'll be glad you did.


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Just curious if i aerate it now would it be detrimental? Im just curious.

Also, whats a good seed to use from home depot in canada? Scotts, vigoro? Cil?


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

WB Media said:


> Just curious if i aerate it now would it be detrimental? Im just curious.
> 
> Also, whats a good seed to use from home depot in canada? Scotts, vigoro? Cil?


Aeration is a stressful ordeal for the lawn, and we have an extended period of hot sunny weather in the forecast.

It doesn't appear as though the area you watered is having trouble with water penetration, as evidenced by the quick rebound.

I would just stick to a regular watering schedule through this hot and dry spell.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

As for the seeds - read the labels.

Anything with annual rye or intermediate rye is a strong no-go. It's a junk grass they include because it gives very quick results and prevents complaints.

The Scott's Sunny Bluegrass mix is decent.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

If you can stick a screw driver into your lawn with ease, aeration isn't necessary.

Check out https://www.generalseedcompany.ca/. I have used their Quick Catch PRG blend. Not sure where you can pick it up near you. I got mine from Peel Landscape Depot in Georgetown. They have the quick catch and over seed blend (KBG, Creeping Fescue and PRG). Link below:

https://www.peellandscapedepot.com/store/landscape-lawn-garden-accessories/grass-seed/


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Harts said:


> If you can stick a screw driver into your lawn with ease, aeration isn't necessary.
> 
> Check out https://www.generalseedcompany.ca/. I have used their Quick Catch PRG blend. Not sure where you can pick it up near you. I got mine from Peel Landscape Depot in Georgetown. They have the quick catch and over seed blend (KBG, Creeping Fescue and PRG). Link below:
> 
> https://www.peellandscapedepot.com/store/landscape-lawn-garden-accessories/grass-seed/


Thanks I'll see if i can find them in Vaughan. If I can't, anything from home depot good enough?
'
Also, for my dorment/yellow areas, what should I do to bring life back in to them if you guys are saying not to aerate?

I did some some major tlc to my front yard, and aerated with my metal rake and roughed up the dorment areas, applied greenmax and some seeds, and its night and day how it looks now. Im thinking if i do this to the back where its all dorment, and some aerating with lots of water, how can that not look better? But what do I know?


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Your yard is quite small so I am sure you can make improvements from your original pics at any time of the year if you water deeply and infrequently and mow twice per week at a high setting. I am with the other posters who have responded to you. Now is not the time to seed, and you might not even need to. Your lawn is going to be at least partially Kentucky blue grass which can repair itself and come out of dormancy. Yellow does not usually mean dead. Be patient as this is not a sprint, but a marathon.

Most people who seed on a whim regret it. It takes planning to do it right, and for our area the correct time is mid August.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

The improvement you've seen is certainly due to water alone, as it was just yesterday you said you were going to put down seed & fert.


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Sinclair said:


> The improvement you've seen is certainly due to water alone, as it was just yesterday you said you were going to put down seed & fert.


No i put down seen and fert over 2 weeks ago.
But i felt it wasnt done properly Becuase all thr dorment grass. I reviewed the lawn closely and most of thr seeds did not germinate at all.


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Stuofsci02 said:


> Your yard is quite small so I am sure you can make improvements from your original pics at any time of the year if you water deeply and infrequently and mow twice per week at a high setting. I am with the other posters who have responded to you. Now is not the time to seed, and you might not even need to. Your lawn is going to be at least partially Kentucky blue grass which can repair itself and come out of dormancy. Yellow does not usually mean dead. Be patient as this is not a sprint, but a marathon.
> 
> Most people who seed on a whim regret it. It takes planning to do it right, and for our area the correct time is mid August.


If im doing what you say. Im just mowing thr weeds ay high setting. And my backyard will look like crap since thr yellow grass is literally not growing at all. Its short and sparse.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

WB Media said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> > Your yard is quite small so I am sure you can make improvements from your original pics at any time of the year if you water deeply and infrequently and mow twice per week at a high setting. I am with the other posters who have responded to you. Now is not the time to seed, and you might not even need to. Your lawn is going to be at least partially Kentucky blue grass which can repair itself and come out of dormancy. Yellow does not usually mean dead. Be patient as this is not a sprint, but a marathon.
> ...


I think you need to accept that if your cools season grass looks like crap in late June it is going to most likely look like crap until mid August. If I were in your spot I would take care of the weeds by getting proper herbicide (not from CT or Home Depot). Go on Ebay.Ca and look for Par-3 of Killex (for the Killex make sure 2,4-D is the active ingredient). The Par-3 comes out of Winnipeg and is expensive (but you said you had money to burn). Follow the directions on the bottle exactly (do not deviate).

Then water 2-3 times per week at 1/2" (use several tuna cans to measure) so that you get 1-1.5" of water (reduce watering if it rains so leave your tuna cans out so you can see how much it rains) and mow twice per week (set your mower to 2.5" -3" height of cut). Decide at the end of July if you will need to do more work in mid/late August.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

It seems you want help in attaining a stellar lawn, but also want to tell everyone why they're wrong and why you're right.

You've been given good guidance. There are no short cuts or cheat codes available here. Look at Stu's lawn, Harts' lawn, Snowbob's lawn, my lawn, and decide if you'll take the advice or leave it, but to continue to ask for help then reject the answers isn't helpful for you, your lawn, or those taking the time to reply.

Be patient.

August is when the work begins.

With your willingness to invest time, money, and energy, you can have great lawn by late September.


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Sinclair said:


> It seems you want help in attaining a stellar lawn, but also want to tell everyone why they're wrong and why you're right.
> 
> You've been given good guidance. There are no short cuts or cheat codes available here. Look at Stu's lawn, Harts' lawn, Snowbob's lawn, my lawn, and decide if you'll take the advice or leave it, but to continue to ask for help then reject the answers isn't helpful for you, your lawn, or those taking the time to reply.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree thank you.


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Stuofsci02 said:


> WB Media said:
> 
> 
> > Stuofsci02 said:
> ...


 Thanks how about tenacity?


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

Tenacity is a great herbicide, and it has the bonus of preventing weed seed germination but allowing grass seed germination - so you can apply it when seeding, which you can't do with most other weed control products.

A word of caution - if you overdo it, your lawn will turn white. Not brown, not yellow...actual white.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Sinclair said:


> Tenacity is a great herbicide, and it has the bonus of preventing weed seed germination but allowing grass seed germination - so you can apply it when seeding, which you can't do with most other weed control products.
> 
> A word of caution - if you overdo it, your lawn will turn white. Not brown, not yellow...actual white.


I imagine getting Tenacity in Canada right now is going to be a little tricky.

@WB Media ... Stick to the 2,4-D based herbicide. You can order it today and have it early next week and it will quickly kill the salad of broad leaf weeds that you have. With your property size it will last you a life time. Tenacity is great for many things, but I would just stick to the basics right now.

It sounds to me like you are aiming for something like what your neighbor has which is not hard to achieve, with a very basic plan. Even your neighbor is doing most things wrong and has an "ok" lawn..


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Sinclair said:


> Tenacity is a great herbicide, and it has the bonus of preventing weed seed germination but allowing grass seed germination - so you can apply it when seeding, which you can't do with most other weed control products.
> 
> A word of caution - if you overdo it, your lawn will turn white. Not brown, not yellow...actual white.


Ya i was reading that. How long for it to back green?


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

WB Media said:


> Sinclair said:
> 
> 
> > Tenacity is a great herbicide, and it has the bonus of preventing weed seed germination but allowing grass seed germination - so you can apply it when seeding, which you can't do with most other weed control products.
> ...


The affected leaf tissue never recovers, it just has to grow up and get mowed off.


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Stuofsci02 said:


> Sinclair said:
> 
> 
> > Tenacity is a great herbicide, and it has the bonus of preventing weed seed germination but allowing grass seed germination - so you can apply it when seeding, which you can't do with most other weed control products.
> ...


If i can get tenacity would that be better?

What's he doing wrong? Looks good to me lol


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

WB Media said:


> If i can get tenacity would that be better?
> 
> What's he doing wrong? Looks good to me lol


Throwing down high N synthetic fert in a hot/dry spell.


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Sinclair said:


> WB Media said:
> 
> 
> > If i can get tenacity would that be better?
> ...


Can tell by the darkness? 
He waters a lot.

What's the cons of this?


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Tenacity isnt really recommended for broadcast apps EXCEPT at time of seeding. It's more for spot spraying tough to kill weeds.

Tenacity is not a perfect magic product.

You need to broadcast spray your lawn. If you plan on seeding or doing a reno at some point tenacity is great to have. For your purposes right now, Killex or par III will be your best bet. You will need to do multiple apps approx 10 days apart. Word of caution, the weeds will not die over night. They will take weeks and multiple apps to get rid of. There is no magic cure that will give you a great lawn in a short amount of time.

You have work to do my friend. My advice is to enjoy it and have fun. It had taken many us full seasons to see a drastic change. And years after that to continue to improve.

I'll say it this way: you can't drop 50lbs in 2 weeks. It takes months of work. Lawn care works the same way. There are ZERO shortcuts.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

WB Media said:


> Sinclair said:
> 
> 
> > WB Media said:
> ...


Have you read the cool season guide? Many of your questions are answered there.

Grass gets stressed in heat. It just wants to lay dormant. Watering helps keep it from doing so. But additional nitrogen in the summer forces top growth and stresses the grass even more. Just because your neighbour might do it doesn't mean it's right.


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Harts said:


> WB Media said:
> 
> 
> > Sinclair said:
> ...


Gotcha. Hey Atleast it looks good.. Lol


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

It might look good, but heat and synthetic N, and lots of water is a dangerous game.

If he gets brown patch and tries to water and fertilize his way out of it, that's the end of his lawn.


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Sinclair said:


> It might look good, but heat and synthetic N, and lots of water is a dangerous game.
> 
> If he gets brown patch and tries to water and fertilize his way out of it, that's the end of his lawn.


Good to know.

Lots to this grass game. Very interesting stuff.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

WB Media said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> > Sinclair said:
> ...


No Tenacity has specific uses. In this case 2,4-D (Par3 or Killex etc.) it going to be your weapon of choice. If there was something better we would recommend it. How long have you lived in this house and how did the lawn get like this?

Everything is relative. Your neighbor has a good looking lawn to most folks, because most people don't care about their lawns and his looks good in comparison to theirs (or yours currently). I would say that his yard is probably just scratching a Tier 1 lawn (if you read the cool season guide). It is mostly green and that is about it. There is nothing wrong with that, but it is not a major accomplishment for a lot so small (no offense to your neighbor). Watering 2x per day and putting down MaxGreen between June and Aug would be on my list of things to avoid for starters. This will not lead to a healthy lawn. MaxGreen (if selected as the weapon of choice) should go down at bag rate typically in early May around here and then not again until 3rd week of Aug on average (weather dependant. You should target 1" of water per week with two deep 1/2" waterings (adjust for rain). When it is hot and sunny you may need to add a 3rd 1/2" watering in the week. My guess would be that your neighbors grass roots go down just an inch or so, and if he stopped watering for a day things will take a nose dive...

@Harts .. There is one magic quick solution.. Roundup, lightly till and new Sod.. For ~1000sqft of the OP this would be easily done and less than $1000. But without good lawn practices it will look like this again in a year or two.


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Thanks for the advice


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Just a little update on my TLC


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## WB Media (Jun 20, 2020)

Just an update photo, I think it's much better then it was when I initially posted here a few weeks back. Any suggestions on how to get it thicker though? I have some patchy/empty spots throughout lawn, It looks much better after I cut it, but once it grows out a day or two you can really notice them. Is there a specific fert I could be using to help with this?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Nitrogen.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

WB Media said:


> Just an update photo, I think it's much better then it was when I initially posted here a few weeks back. Any suggestions on how to get it thicker though? I have some patchy/empty spots throughout lawn, It looks much better after I cut it, but once it grows out a day or two you can really notice them. Is there a specific fert I could be using to help with this?


Urea and start the Fall N blitz in a couple of weeks. 0.25lb N weekly or 0.5lb N bi-weekly.


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