# Too much meso/tenacity as pre-emergent



## Mok (May 29, 2019)

Hello,

Today I did my first application on meso. Earlier this week I had tested my sprayer and I got an idea from @RozWeston to use a metronome to time the application of meso! Genius! Anyways, I was too obsessed with having my dye coat everything and I screwed up. I used the full dosage in half the lawn! I was applying meso as a pre-emergent btw. Too bad. I was finally able to start getting nice stripes with my Swardman. In any case I hope I didn't screw up my lawn we'll soon find out


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## Carlson (Apr 16, 2020)

What rate did you end up putting it down at per 1k?


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

Carlson said:


> What rate did you end up putting it down at per 1k?


So it's supposed to be 1 tsp per 100 sq ft. I did 1 tsp per 500 sq ft. Then the other 500 sq I did about .5 tsp.


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## Carlson (Apr 16, 2020)

Well it will certainly be white out there for a little bit - and at least you didn't go over the annual dosing max.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Mok Why Meso as PreM? The time it wears out, here in MTL you will get the real weed hit. If you only have this as a weapon and don't want anything else you may have had to wait longer to use the post and Prem properties. Tenacity will be long gone when crabgrass hits prime time here. All early germination will probably die off with the frost on the forecast.


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## Babaganoosh (Apr 21, 2019)

Maybe he did a spring seeding


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

Carlson said:


> Well it will certainly be white out there for a little bit - and at least you didn't go over the annual dosing max.


Yet haha. I will be very careful from now on that's for sure! I applied it as pre-emergent and then turned on sprinklers a few hours ago. It didn't have any surfactant maybe I'll get lucky


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

Babaganoosh said:


> Maybe he did a spring seeding


I did but I didn't spray on the area I seeded and also they haven't germinated yet. It got cold over here. Close to freezing temps at times! aghhh


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Not gonna lie, your yards gonna light up white in about 10-14 days, and be like that for quite awhile. You basically put down the yearly max(16oz/acre) on those 500sqft, your PRG may get fried and honestly your KBG may be stunted for quite awhile as thats double the recommended safe rate for even KBG. PRG its only 5oz/Acre max so your over 3x what they recommend. I put down 5-6oz/Acre rate twice seperated by 10 days on my KBG to try and kill some annual ryegrass, and even with that my yard got hit fairly hard here 3 weeks in im probably another 2-3 weeks before it grows out. Your well beyond that. Wish i had better news for you but those 500sqft maybe toast. Your only saving grace is that realistically you cant get that much Tenacity stuck to the turf leaves, so a lot of it probably fell through to the soil which may "dilute" the potency of what reaches the plant enough to not kill your lawn.

That said will you post a photo of your lawn in 14 days, im curious (for science) how bad it gets.


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Not gonna lie, your yards gonna light up white in about 10-14 days, and be like that for quite awhile. You basically put down the yearly max(16oz/acre) on those 500sqft, your PRG may get fried and honestly your KBG may be stunted for quite awhile as thats double the recommended safe rate for even KBG. PRG its only 5oz/Acre max so your over 3x what they recommend. I put down 5-6oz/Acre rate twice seperated by 10 days on my KBG to try and kill some annual ryegrass, and even with that my yard got hit fairly hard here 3 weeks in im probably another 2-3 weeks before it grows out. Your well beyond that. Wish i had better news for you but those 500sqft maybe toast. Your only saving grace is that realistically you cant get that much Tenacity stuck to the turf leaves, so a lot of it probably fell through to the soil which may "dilute" the potency of what reaches the plant enough to not kill your lawn.
> 
> That said will you post a photo of your lawn in 14 days, im curious (for science) how bad it gets.


Will do. This is gonna suck!


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Mok said:


> Will do. This is gonna suck!


The good thing is that it is just a lawn. It will recover or you can overseed. Consider it an opportunity to upgrade if it really goes south!


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

bernstem said:


> Mok said:
> 
> 
> > Will do. This is gonna suck!
> ...


I thought about that! Monostand!! Considering I just dropped PreM seeding might not work 😂


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

Day #3 (for science)

My prediction is that my prg and non kbg will die and kbg will survive. Which is fine by me I just want kbg anyways! 🤞


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Mok Too cold for anything to react. Brushed some KBG on my driveway with Glypho 3 days ago. Green and happy so far.


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

Babameca said:


> @Mok Too cold for anything to react. Brushed some KBG on my driveway with Glypho 3 days ago. Green and happy so far.


That's fine. This will be my "when my grass was green" pic. Next post will be when things start getting white. Surprisingly I'm at a 1/2" cut and grass is still growing.

How come you used glypho?


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Mok here. I thought I can take a break with the mowing but getting the GK526 out tomorrow...Your lawn looks good btw!


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

Babameca said:


> @Mok here. I thought I can take a break with the mowing but getting the GK526 out tomorrow...Your lawn looks good btw!


Sucka! At least your lawn won't look like it snowed like mine will in a few weeks! How come you used gly so early? POA or something?

PS
My pics only have the green stripy parts but I still have lots of areas that need work!


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Mok Wait wait, I was brushing KBG on the sidewalks and garden beds and watching the 4years old running around and jumping on the street. So by the end of this, even if I did not spill any on the grass, I don't remember me or my daughter, how many times we may have crossed, stepped on fresh glypho and walked back in the lawn. So I am expecting beautiful baby steps of burnt grass that will be gone for good. We are in a different boat but heading all to the same destination :lol:


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

Babameca said:


> @Mok Wait wait, I was brushing KBG on the sidewalks and garden beds and watching the 4years old running around and jumping on the street. So by the end of this, even if I did not spill any on the grass, I don't remember me or my daughter, how many times we may have crossed, stepped on fresh glypho and walked back in the lawn. So I am expecting beautiful baby steps of burnt grass that will be gone for good. We are in a different boat but heading all to the same destination :lol:


       

I don't usually spray that much gly but that is a painful lesson to learn!

I did however mix liquid fert on the grass and ended up spilling it all over the area and it got yellow spots!


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Mok Bottom line, Handle with care... one KBG on the street started to wilt, but some is fresh and green, so we will both know the extent of the damage in 3-5 days. Temps go up for good now. I am confident mine will recover/fill in by the end of the season. Nothing I can do now, but be more focused on one thing and one thing only when potent stuff is involved.


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

Day #6 for science! Omg I'm happy with my stripe game this is gonna hurt when it goes white. Lots of lessons learned!


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

2 weeks in.

I'm very curious to see who lives and who dies can I drop some N to speed up the greening process? I have some AMS


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Mok At least you can clearly see where you missed the overlap. That looks alarming... Nitrogen normally increases the effect of Herbicides. I may just wait and watch for now. In the signs of recovery you can start spoon feeding...if you still want what is left over alive.


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

Babameca said:


> @Mok At least you can clearly see where you missed the overlap. That looks alarming... Nitrogen normally increases the effect of Herbicides. I may just wait and watch for now. In the signs of recovery you can start spoon feeding...if you still want what is left over alive.


I'll just drop N in front lawn. TBH now I think I want to put a pool in the back. Tough times!!!

I realized last night that if my KBG survives and my prg and tall fescue die there might be lots of dead grass. If I wanted to seed I couldn't because of PreM. I'd maybe have to somehow destroy the PreM layer to seed again which would defeat the purpose of putting PreM in the first place!


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## MarshalOfFire (Apr 22, 2020)

If Tenacity (meso) was your preM, go ahead and seed anyway. That's why people use that as a preM, so they can seed. Otherwise prodiamine or dithyiopur(sp?)are better and longer lasting preMs.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Yeah, that is going to take out some of your PRG and Tall Fescue. AT 2 weeks in you can probably overseed. The estimates for the half life is 3-32 days with 5-15 seeming to be the accepted number in turf. That would mean that the dose remaining now is probably close to 1/2 of the original dose and thus safe for seeding unless you have one of the outlier soils.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@moktaw can you do FAS? It could help.


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

MarshalOfFire said:


> If Tenacity (meso) was your preM, go ahead and seed anyway. That's why people use that as a preM, so they can seed. Otherwise prodiamine or dithyiopur(sp?)are better and longer lasting preMs.


I read you can apply meso when you seed not after. You have to wait like a month or something no?


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

g-man said:


> @moktaw can you do FAS? It could help.


I'll check it out thanks!


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

MarshalOfFire said:


> If Tenacity (meso) was your preM, go ahead and seed anyway. That's why people use that as a preM, so they can seed. Otherwise prodiamine or dithyiopur(sp?)are better and longer lasting preMs.


I put it to try to control POA (it's all I had in stock). If KBG can be seeded does that mean if POA germinates it will succeed as well?


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Mok said:


> I read you can apply meso when you seed not after. You have to wait like a month or something no?


You can seed after Tenacity just fine. You can also spray it on seedlings before mowing despite what the label says, though it will bleach them some and I would limit my dose to 4Oz. Poa Annua will be supressed by tenacity. It will germinate, but bleach out and die. KBG, TTTF, PRG, etc. will germinate, bleach some, but continue growing and survive.


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

bernstem said:


> Mok said:
> 
> 
> > I read you can apply meso when you seed not after. You have to wait like a month or something no?
> ...


Thank you sir! I am doing some reading currently it's not such a good PreM I'll be sure to get some Prodiamine to control my poa this fall. For now it's a white lawn!


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

3 weeks in


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Well, it could be worse... :shock: The remaining Bluegrass will spread and fill that. You wanted a bluegrass lawn, right?

If you want to encourage spreading, spoon feed Nitrogen at low doses and give it plenty of water. If you get hot summers, I would watch it carefully with the summer heat coming and probably keep it at 0.1-0.15 lbs/1000 sq feet. If your summers are mild (70s-low 80s), you can push the Nitrogen to 0.2-0.25 lbs every week. You want to give it water if needed and avoid drought stress if you can either way.

If you don't want to bother with that, then manage it normally and see what happens. You will probably be surprised at how well it does, and if it isn't where you want it this fall you can overseed.

If you want to overseed now, be aware that keeping newly germinated grass alive in summer requires a lot more water than in the fall, even in cooler climates. Again, if your summers are mild, you will have an easier time with seeding now, but may still want to consider waiting until fall.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@bernstem We are just passing through a 4 days close to 100F. Montreal cool? No, unpredictable. Down to 55 on Sunday and night temps in the mid 40's... :lol:


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Mok Hey, what happened with the damage? You went silent for 2 months now...


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

The PRG died along with weeds and only left KBG. The grass was filling in the bare spots albeit very slowly. I bought a pool to cover the area haha. RIP


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)




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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Mok Nice! Well there is someone dying to buy an Elektra if you don't need it anymore @bernstem


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

That is one way to fix a bare spot! Yeah, @Babameca my Swardman experience has been less than stellar.


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## Mok (May 29, 2019)

Whoa there chief i still have half a rest yard and a full front yard! Everyone sees the front so I'm still dominating!!

Btw what do you have to kill crabgrass?



Babameca said:


> @Mok Nice! Well there is someone dying to buy an Elektra if you don't need it anymore @bernstem


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Mok Nothing, lawn's too thick to let anything out . Prodiamine in spring as preventive and quinclorac + MSO as currative are the two things that work.


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