# Poa Supina - Spring 2022 Reno & Fall 2022 Reno



## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Sprayed round 1 of gly today for spring seeding. I'll get some pics tomorrow when I go back out but it's nasty: moss, weeds, rocks, tree roots, tall trees everywhere, dirt patches and poor drainage :bd: . Next step, fence guy to come and install a new fence + working on the broken irrigation system. Then, a couple yards of sand/soil mix to level out yard. One more round of gly in 3 weeks then seed down. That's my plan anyway :lol:


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Wait what? &#128514;.

You moved? I'm assuming it's shady and wet if you went with Supina. Safe to say I'm following but need more details!


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Yup, I moved 7 min away :lol: to a bigger hilly yard with trees everywhere. I couldn't pass on the house itself though.

Put down 2 bags of moss ex at heavy rate. Some close up pics. I'm not even sure what most of these weeds are. A soil test will be sent to RU this week. Should have done this already but I'm slacking.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Test drove the irrigation system. I inherited a bunch of broken heads, some pipes cut, and 2 zones that didn't work (not to be seeded ATM so in no rush to fix them). I swapped out 8 rainbirds for i20s and will do another 8 today, along with some MPs. Also, picked up 8 bags of peat and a roll blanket. Moss ex is working turning the yard black.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

My portion of our backyard fence was replaced yesterday. Neighbor has been mia but we are attempting to replace her half as well. Ordered 10 yards of topsoil + 2 yards of sand for some leveling work next week. Picked up 10 more bags of moss ex (on sale for 3.57 by me) and 5 bags of slopemaster. Some new tools for me came as well: got an Echo 590 to cut some trees down today, 14 more sprinklers and the necessary irrigation necessities (need to install a new head, move 3 heads and replace the rest), and some Volt lighting.

Note to self: 2nd round of gly April 1 -3.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Definitely following this Reno. Good luck man!


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## 0318 (Dec 7, 2021)

Good luck with the spring seeding hopefully it will work out!
Any idea on grass seed your are going to use?


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

0318 said:


> Good luck with the spring seeding hopefully it will work out!
> Any idea on grass seed your are going to use?


Thanks. The cultivar is poa supina. It's a low cut, shade loving alpine grass.

I believe that I have 80% shade in 95% of my yard (first year living here so not totally sure). I also have 75 lbs of prg and 10 lbs of midnight kbg should I need a fall reno.

Thanks @JerseyGreens. Hoping this works out too haha. Normally, I'd wait until fall but I have dirt, moss, and (most importantly) a wife who wants grass.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Some pics of weekend work.

Vine removal from rhododendron in 3rd pic and trees from backyard (getting replaced).


Dethatched dead moss in 1/3 of the backyard:


10 yards of topsoil + 2 yards of sand delivered:


I also fixed my front landscape lights and swapped the rest of the reno area sprinklers. Today, backyard wiring is getting delivered so I'll start installing that along with levelling. Bought a 2nd backpack sprayer for gly (took way too long with 2 gal pump) so I'll spray this morning.

I have no idea about what to do about the large gaps under the fence in 2nd pic. I laid down wood and it looks bad. I bought retaining wall bricks and that looks bad. My goal is to level it off a bit so it doesn't drop 6 inches per ft right before the fence.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

All dirt spread, new trees installed, 250 ft of landscape lighting ran, ran 2 more sprinkler lines, termite solution put down, and 40 new sprinklers tested (one was DOA 👎). About 2-3 inches of rain headed my rain (spread over 2.5 days) and then it's seed down on Friday.

Some progress pics (I don't have any final pics atm):





I ordered another 250 ft roll of landscape lighting for front to do this weekend since it won't disturb seed location.


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## Colinwjholding (Apr 6, 2020)

40 sprinklers for the whole yard. Why not rotors?


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

I have rotors - i20s. I only have 4 MPs in tight areas on one zone. The way they ran these lines combined with the areas I'm renoing is the reason why there are so many: I have multiple heads on zones I'm not currently renoing plus I installed new heads in areas that I want to redo at some point (convert rock areas to grass). My plan is to do the front portion later this year because it will require weeks of work vs days.


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## Colinwjholding (Apr 6, 2020)

Biggylawns said:


> I have rotors - i20s. I only have 4 MPs in tight areas on one zone. The way they ran these lines combined with the areas I'm renoing is the reason why there are so many: I have multiple heads on zones I'm not currently renoing plus I installed new heads in areas that I want to redo at some point (convert rock areas to grass). My plan is to do the front portion later this year because it will require weeks of work vs days.


Ok that makes more sense. As an Irrigation installer it drives me nuts when guys put mister pop ups for everything and charge out way more $ because it uses more heads.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Looks like its go time. Today - seed, starter (low on Phosphorus per soil test), lime (low ph per soil test), tenacity, peat in some areas, and a roll blanket in one area.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Temp hit 30 here last night, with a frost warning:


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Biggylawns said:


> Temp hit 30 here last night, with a frost warning:


To boot we are about the get over an inch of 🌧.

Did you have any germ yet?


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

@JerseyGreens so the part I covered with tarps is prg and it germinated about 3 days ago - only reason I did it there. I took the tarps off today at 930 so it could breathe. The back and front reno areas are entirely poa supina and no germ there yet. Seed down was 4/8, so somewhat early plus this weather is not helping. The yard is very atypical so I'm trying to figure out if prg is an option in this spot. It seems to get the most sun since the sun goes over the house vs the trees blocking it like the back. If it doesn't work then I'll do poa supina there this fall when I do the rest of the yard.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

2.5 inches of rain in 9 hrs. Lots of washout in semi flat areas.

Great news though, I used Pennington's tackifier on every slope and area that looked like it would washout. Some even had valleys from the rain before I filled them in and they experienced almost zero washout. Even on areas abutting the driveway, almost zero. Highly recommend that product now.

I also used 2 seed blankets from Lowes on severely sloped areas in the above tarped area These worked fantastic too. Too bad they are so expensive - $22 per roll for 46sh sq ft.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Got supina germination this am. Pretty excited considering 1/3 of the time the air temp was below 40*. See how much comes up in the coming days (70 for the next 3 days) and I'll snap some pics then.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I can't wait to see pics of the Supina. I don't think I've followed anyone doing a supina reno and to boot the fact your in NJ makes this even more fun to watch!


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

I forgot to upload my terrific soil report :? Since, there were several bushes/plants on the property that were half-dead/dead with no root system, I ordered a Solvita test in addition to the normal report. The test validated my concern and gave guidance on how to proceed.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Prg - 10 days from germ, 16 days from seed down. Did .2 N/M on PRG area. PRG blades are already over an inch. Gonna mow PRG on Tuesday with push reel mower.


Pressure washed the retaining wall this afternoon, inherited dirty wall from previous owners (this the pre pic).


Supina a bit slower, still germinating - first germ location approx 3 days ago. Very happy with germ dates on this (at 17 days from seed down today) given the weather - 5 days with the lows in the 30s, with 2 below freezing. 
All spots have grass but some are higher so they appear thicker. Another week and it should fill in a bunch.



Same spot, dif angle/lighting-can see the green:



This spot has the most green but pic barely shows anything lol



Plan:
4/26 - push reel PRG spot
4/30 or 5/1 - .2 N/M on supina


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

That green haze looks lovely.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Didn't mow this week. Prg and supina filling in nicely - no new seed drops. Did .2 N/M on Reno area. Also, dropped 75 lbs of lime on my front for my fall Reno.

At some point this week: (1) spray gly on the entire front because I don't want to mow all weeds, (2)drop a ton of humic on front, (3) drop the MAP that I have on front, (4) spray .2 N/M in Reno areas, and (5) mow prg area.

PRG - 17 DAG


Supina: approx. 11 DAG


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

My front - soil modification commenced.

Gly and humic put down. Triv everywhere. Looks nice 😆


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Put down .25 N/M on entire reno this morning. A lot of spots are looking like a desert :roll: I was afraid of this because the supina seeds were so small. I tried to mix them with starter fert to get an even spread but it looks like that didn't work that great. I'll just deal with what I have since it might be too late (who knows what's going on with NJ's weather anymore) to throw down more seed. I could throw down the PRG I have and just deal with an uneven color for a year. We'll see how this week goes and I'll make the call by Saturday.

Supina requires 6-8 lbs N/M per year so while the below chart might seem like a lot of N, it equates to 7 lb N/M this entire year and my soil test shows the soil will barely contribute .

Goal:


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Damn that's a lot of N - I'm a newb here but does Supina spread like wildfire with that much N? If thats the case then I'd just wait and watch what this does...of course the weather here went from 40s to high 70s overnight...


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

@JerseyGreens no idea haha. Apparently this grass will choke out every other *** due to how aggressive it spreads. And, you can seed about 5% supina weight with a different variety and in 2 to 3 years it will be a monostand.

Here are my weekly pics. 2nd pic shows the bare area. As you noted, hopefully this weather holds for once since this spring was pretty up and down for us; maybe it worked out for me though since I'm now 24 DAG with the PRG and 18 DAG with Supina. It looks like I might be 45 days for both before any hot weather + no severe spring storms, which is the luck part of the spring reno!


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

4th mow on PRG spot. 26 DAG and 9 days since last pic... Filling in nicely.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Looking deep green already on the PRG. My guess is that Supina fills that with 7lbs of N per K!


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Following, fellow supina grower here&#128077;&#127996; 
I found the supina has the kbg pout stage too, where it sits there not doing too much after germination, after that it flies. 
6-8lbs of N, and 3.5lbs before June 12, that IS a lot! I'm guessing you're pushing very hard before the summer?
Wishing you success &#128578;


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

@JerseyGreens fingers crossed. Pool opens in 2 days and kiddos dying to go on the grass.

@Mark B great to hear your thoughts on the supina and that there is another supina lawn on this site!!

I kinda dove head first into supina without much info on it, except what I can find from U. Wisconsin AG dep't. I've come to learn that only one cultivar of supina is sold in the US and it's extremely hard (read expensive) to get. Seed was selling fast, my yard was all moss, and I have tall trees galore surrounding the grass area so I pulled the trigger and ordered it. As for the N, I thought 7 lbs N/m was a lot as well but I got that number from a Wisconsin AG article saying that's what it needs at my desired hoc, 19 mm to start but if lawn can handle it I'll lower to 12 mm. I also read a different article by Wisc. measuring color, density, recovery, etc and 6 was the magic number. They did 2, 4 ,6 ,8 plots with 8 being recommended for heavy traffic (I assume athletic events since they simulated 3 hr sporting events on the turf). How much N do you put down? Also, do you use any herbicides? Seems that supina can crowd out basically everything and another Wisc. article shows only a small handful of chemicals capable of being applied without damaging it.

I chose 7 for 2 reasons: (1) yard in the back isn't big and I have 2 kids that have a lot of friends over, and (2) need it to spread and fill before summer heat. Mowing 2 to 3x a week doesn't bother me but I have anuew pgr for later this year.

Even though my P and K on my soil test are in the optimum zone, I'll add a touch of SOP and MAP on Saturday to help with development.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Biggylawns said:


> @Mark B great to hear your thoughts on the supina and that there is another supina lawn on this site!!


I was well happy when I saw you were going to sow supina, its going to look great mowed with your 1600!


> How much N do you put down?


After seeding in August 2020 I used 3.5lb of N/ksqft, mostly organic for the soil apps and a few 0.2lb urea spray apps from Aug 1 - Oct 15th when I stopped for the season. Averaging about 0.35lbs/ksqft of N per week.
Page 6 of my journal gives you some 20, 37 and 50 day after germination comparison pics if you're interested.
In 2021 I put 5.4lbs/ksqft of N, 2.85 of P, 5.6 of K and a few things for the micros.
I'm going to aim for 4lbs N this year, see how it responds.



> Also, do you use any herbicides?


I have used tenacity a couple of times, which I found bleaches supina grass. I use a 2-4D, dicamba, mcpa and mcpp 4 way for broadleafs without issues. I believe ethofumesate causes phytotoxicity to supina but haven't tested that myself.

I'm excited to see you start mowing! :thumbup:


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

@Mark B yep. I was disappointed to read tenacity was not approved for use on it.

Also, ethofumesate is apparently fine in the spring but causes phototoxicity if applied in the fall.

I'm using this chart but was curious about real world practice:


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

7lbs&#128563;. I'm so intrigued by all of this. Your soil looks like unicorn soil minus pH.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Supina coming in strong...24 DAG. Filling gaps big time. Another week and I'll lower it to .75 inch.

.75 N/m put down. Cut it at 1 inch with my push reel since the ground was soaked from yesterday's rain.

Held off on sop and map until next week.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Dude this looks sweet!! Maybe Supina will just body slam all other poa types you don't want.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

DAG - 32
.75 N/m this am.
Cut at 1 inch with push reel.

I've been cutting every other day and it's growing crazy. I might have to cut back on next week's N lol. Going to put some anuew down this coming weekend at .1 oz/m rate. Verified with nufarm it won't hinder lateral growth and no phytotoxicity.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

DAG - 36
First cut with 1600 on new grass. Cut at .86 inch. It's filling in very nice 🙂


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## livt0ride (Jan 10, 2021)

Sure is. I've never seen this grass type before. Do you have any close shots of it?


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Here are some cherry picked closeups haha. Top one gets sun, 2nd one is full shade 100% of the day.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Biggylawns said:


> DAG - 36
> First cut with 1600 on new grass. Cut at .86 inch. It's filling in very nice 🙂


 :thumbup: looking great, bet you were thrilled to get the 1600 on it!


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

I definitely was. Stripes weren't on point and hit the decking a couple times  grass still filling in nicely. I lowered the hoc to .7 inches and will keep it here for a couple weeks (maybe until fall). Weather this coming week (after tomorrow) is prime growing weather. I don't think I could have been luckier with the weather for this reno.

I also picked up a turfex tl80ss and used it for the first time this am. Put down .8 lb N/m and .5 lb MAP/m. It was much easier and quicker filling it once and pushing it vs 2 backpack sprayer trips.

Some pics:


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Been awhile. Grass is doing fine for the most part, even with no rain and temps above 90. Put down anuew a couple weeks back and azoxy a week ago due to what looked like leaf spot; cleared up in 2 to 3 days. Other than that, it's just been moving along fine. Pic from a couple days ago. Not bad for an alpine grass that hates hot temps and was planted in the spring. Can't wait for it next year to take off.



Also, I started my fall reno project approx. 10 days ago. Gly'd the front of my yard. Finalized my sprinkler layout this past weekend and found 4 heads buried when I fixed a busted pipe. Did a 2nd gly app today and I started cleaning up all the debris (imbedded rocks galore - see pic). I got 3 yards of sand and 4 yards of topsoil delivered today. Plan is to double fallow it. I'll put down some triazicide tomorrow since I think I saw grubs when I was raking.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Sprayed F (2 oz/M) AS (1.7 oz/M)+ Anuew (4g/M) on the back:

Front yard leveling done for now (7 yards of soil/sand). Sprinklers adjusted and working properly. Next steps: (1) installation of a barrier at the far edge of the dirt; (2) removal of the closest tree on the left; and (3) mowing dead grass on the hill to the right.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Seed down day for upper hill!

7 lbs of poa supina for 3500 SQ ft, covered by peat. Also, got some magnaplex to help hold the water in the hill.

Note to self- greensmowers can't handle 50* inclines and are hard to pull up a hill on dirt. Seed down for bottom hill is Monday/Tuesday due to tree removal.







Here's some rocks and weed fabric I dug out of where I put down seed - all this was completely covered::


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I'm loving the different elevations on your property but damn that makes reno's and maintaining the landscaping beauty that much more difficult.- Good luck on the reno!


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## dksmc (8 mo ago)

Looks amazing. I went with RPR for this year but want to do POA Supina in the future. I'm surprised only 7lbs for 3500sqft though.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

@dksmc - the seeds are very small so while the lb/sq ft appears small, you get a lot down with that rate. I have some Midnight *** and PRG so I'll do a comparison pic. For me, it was a challenge trying to spread them accurately so I added some starter fert for the supina to somewhat bind to. I'm not sure if that's a good practice but it worked for me this spring so I'm continuing it.

Also, from what I could find with distributors in the US, Supina is about $40-50/lb so any more than 2 lbs/1000 adds up quickly.

A couple downsides to Supina: 
(1) Almost every normally used herbicide has a negative effect on it. I had a crabgrass infestation because I didn't put down Pre since I wasn't sure if the grass would survive the summer as it was a spring reno. I put down Drive XLR8 and it struggled for a bit after that turning some areas white/killing others. 
(2) I have some other weeds that I'd normally would use speedzone or tenacity on and those chems aren't safe for use on Supina. 
(3) Anuew PRG is also not "approved" for Supina -- NuFarm did state that while it wouldn't damage the grass, it might stunt horizontal growth as well as vertical. Perhaps this contributed to root growth and survival this summer? I'm not really sure but I haven't had to mow in a month under only 2 light rate apps this summer. T-Nex is approved though so I'll pick up that up for next year.

With that said, I've only had the cultivar since this spring and it's held its own this summer - the grass is by far the greenest in my town that I've seen; almost everybody has irrigation in this town. While I irrigated about .5 inches every 3 days, I only got approx. 1 inch of rain in July with nonstop 90+ heat. A bunch has died off, I have some areas to fill, some areas to seed but I'm starting to blitz the back (did the first round of .5 N/M today so I'll report back in a month with the progress).

Thanks, @JerseyGreens. It's definitely a challenge for sure. The 1600 almost flipped over twice while I was using it to push the seed into the dirt. Maybe I'll get a hover mower :lol:


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## dksmc (8 mo ago)

Thanks for all the added info. I think I made a good decision not to go with Poa Supina right now. On top of the price which is even higher up here ($85/lbs USD) I also have a lot of weed issues and not being able to use products wouldn't be the best choice right now.

Definitely going to keep an eye on your lawn though! And dream about having a Supina lawn in the future haha


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

@dksmc $85!!  that's crazy. There is a workaround if you want it at a cheaper price - apparently, because of how aggressive it is, you can buy a blend with about 5% supina seed (or just mix it with other cheap seed) and in 2 to 3 years it'll be a supina monostand.

Lower hill:

Tree was removed, had a huge stump grinder go right across the area so I'm glad I waited since his tracks made some huge divots that required levelling.

Seed down, slopemaster from lowes down, and erosion blanket down. In typical NJ fashion for this summer, weather chan predicted 5 days of rain next week so I put the erosion blanket down (should have run vertically but oh well, I was tired). Checked the weather this morning and now 50% chance of scattered showers for 1 day lol. I also noticed some germination on upper hill portion late last night - a nice green haze.
I'll see if a pic this morning shows anything.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Pic from this morning. 2 DAG. Seed down was 7 pm on 8/11. Yes, I know the driveway is a disaster. I barely had enough time on Monday to put seed down on the bottom half and haven't had time to clean anything up this week.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

7 DAG above driveway:





7 days from seed down on lower hill; Starting to come up:


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

This looks amazing in such a short period of time. I feel like this comes up quick like rye but is actually in the poa family!

I thought you would have major washout with the downpours we are getting today but I doubt it after seeing these!!


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## livt0ride (Jan 10, 2021)

wow looking great so far. Looks like you have good coverage.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

@JerseyGreens downpours.... Not here lol. It rained .04 so far today. I'm running the sprinklers now because no rain and the sun is out.

Good coverage but fairly thin when looking close up. It'll need to fill in.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Wait what...I thought it would be hard for anyone in jerz to dodge these storms. I hope you get some.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

@JerseyGreens as soon as I read your post it started to rain and as I'm sure you experienced, heavy downpour - I got a 1/2 inch in 10 min and it wrecked me. I had to add a bunch of dirt to level this one area and now I have a ravine (see 1st pic).

On a good note, I did my first mow (charity?)today after I blew to stand up the grass. I mowed around 1.75 and got approx 1/4 of a basket worth lol. After pic mow. Good coverage, looking like uneven coverage throughout (thin v thick) but I got germination everywhere. I'll be spoon feeding it soon enough.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I have a new found love for Poa Supina...I think this should end the debate of BlueBank vs Mazama for "shady" areas for people exploring renos...

Supina all day, everyday. Good work man!


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