# jrubb42's Going Low Journal



## jrubb42

Been putting this off for far too long and I feel like at the end of this year I would kick myself if I never did one. So I'll play catch up on this post and post regularly going forward. I also plan on taking better photos of progress now that I know I have a journal going.

Just so everyone know where I started and what my goals are...

Last year I mowed at 3.5/4 inches with a rider and had a huge domination line on both side of me, but it was nothing crazy. It was a nice thick KBG lawn. Nothing special, simple as that.

I'm going for the mullet lawn this year, short in the front and sides (6k sq/ft). Long in the back. I have a serious mole problem in the back that I'm taking care of this summer hopefully. It's done a number on how bumpy and uneven it is back there with all of the tunnels so I don't even want to mess with it until I get them under control.

For the front and sides I don't need perfection, but I'd love to have a dark green lawn around 7/8 to 1 inch with some nice stripes that make people stop and go wow, that looks pretty damn nice. Also need to show my wife the wow factor and what all this time and money can accomplish (good luck to me right? Ha!!)

And on that note....here we go:

*MARCH 8TH:*

Snow melted and discovered piles of dead grass in a couple different areas of my yard. After some researched I learned that they were most likely voles. Some areas were way worse than others. Waiting for all the snow to melt and gently raked everything up.









*MARCH 20TH:*

Decided I'm going to try going reel low this year. I have a few concerns in my yard with this plan and will just have to address them along the way. My biggest was the root on this tree. It would be pretty tough to topdress because of how far it sticks out of the ground so for now I'm just going to have to mow around it. Also ordered T-Nex and the bio-stimulant pack. Never have used either.



Been on the hunt for a GM1600 as the plan is to stick around 1 inch for most of the year. Not much out there for sale at this time of the year.

*MARCH 22ND:*

My second baby boy Xander was brought into this crazy world!

*APRIL 1ST:*

Did my first soil test. Ended up doing the Yard Mastery test because of everything COVID related with a newborn and a wife with compromised immune system from the pregnancy. Didn't want to go to the post office to send off a test to a University. The YM test comes with a capsule and return envelope in their kit which made it the easiest at the time. I know a lot of you have reservations to how accurate this test really is, but I figured it was better than nothing. Took the results with a grain of salt, but nice to see somewhat what I may be working with since this is the first soil test I've ever done.

Ended up buying some SOP and really was the only amendment I really plan on doing until my next soil test.





*APRIL 18TH:*

After a long a tiring search, I finally pulled the trigger on a GM1000. It was on FB Marketplace for $1000 and I got him down to $450 with MTI having an abundance of them for $500. I didn't have a clue what to look for on these things so I basically got to his house, started it up, and loaded it up. He showed my that the engage also worked (which a later found out it did not).

Didn't realize it had a smooth roller until I got to his house either because his photos had the grass catcher on and you could not see it.

Ended up having to rewind the pull string, get a new drive belt, purchase a grooved roller, and backlap the reel. The engine ran good, as it starts on first or second pull every time. Cut very well on my test cuts after the backlap!

What I thought was a good deal ended up costing me some money, but hey I have one. Plan is to use this until I run across a 1600 with an 8 blade reel and then sell this one.







*APRIL 25TH*

Brought the GM1000 out for the first cut. I was pretty excited and nervous at the same time! That thing really does drag you around! I got the hang of it pretty fast I felt like, but straight lines are definitely going to be an issue. Also, I was emptying the damn grass catcher with every pass in the lawn because the grass was longer than I was expecting, but in the end it got done on the first section of my lawn. My neighbors officially think I've lost my mind, along with my wife lol. The grass did not like being cut that short which I was anticipating. She was YELLOW. I wasn't expecting to do a journal so I wish I took a lot more before and after photos of this process. The yard was a lot more level than I thought it was going to be. It's going to look really nice I feel like once it gets used to being cut so short.

Before:




After:


When doing the other side of my yard, on the second pass, I found "the root" I spoke about earlier in my journal. I barely knicked a part of the root that I couldn't even see under the grass and it was GAME OVER. Bedknife bent up, reel collided with it and I was F'ed. I was so mad you don't even know. Lesson learned. The root had zero damage to it. It was probably laughing at me. Well.... that was fun while it lasted. On to trying to find how much this is going to cost me 

*APRIL 27TH*

So I got quoted $875 for a new reel and bedknife plus labor from MTI (the local toro dealer) :x What a fun mistake.

I could buy the parts and do it myself. But with 2 young kids, limited time, and limited tools, I feel like that route is just a bundle of frustration waiting to happen.

While searching for a Greensmaster, I emailed every superintendent from golf courses close to me and didn't find any greens mowers, but It did spark conversations with a couple. One said he would help me out with sharpening once a found a mower which was awesome. I hit him up and asked what he would charge for labor if I bought the parts and he said $50. BINGO. I told him i would pay him more than $50 just so I don't feel like I'm robbing the guy. MTI was charging me $125/hr just for labor.

I bought new a 8 blade reel and high cut bedknife from Toro ($335) along with bearings and seals from R&R ($46). Reason I didn't buy the reel and bedknife from R&R is because they're having some issues with pairing their 8 blade reels and bedknives for some reason. There is not enough clearance for the reel to spin because the reel is either too big for their bedknives or vice versa. I think it was an extra $30-$40 or so to go through Toro for those so I said F-it, so I didn't have any issues.

The new parts wont be arriving until the 5th and the superintendent from the golf course wants to work on it on the weekends so it probably won't be done until the weekend of the 10th by the earliest.

So all in all, I'm basically buying the machine all over again.. smh. But at least I'm getting the reel and bedknife I want. It looks like I'm going to be stuck with the 1000 for awhile instead of a 1600 like I wanted.

*MAY 1ST:*

I had a couple options moving forward without my GM. One was to mow low with my riding JD mower, which I did once after the GM broke down. It scalped in a few areas, but for the most part did alright. The other option was to grab a manual reel mower. I thought this would probably be the better idea to keep things consistent. I ended up finding one of FB marketplace for $20, brand new it was $120. Got to the guys house and of course it didn't cut paper anywhere on the bedknife. I was already there so I said screw it, it's $20. Brought it home, made some adjustments, manually backlapped it, and boom. It cut all along the bedknife. Started cutting at 7/8. It has some washboarding but if I double cut, you can't really see it. This should get me by until my GM gets fixed.

Cut with the rider (the random low cut strip was from a McLane I borrowed. Reel wasn't sharp and just tore the grass, decided to not even try the rest of the grass):







The new manual reel:



Cut with the manual reel for next week or so:



















*MAY 3RD*

I've been basically talking (whining) out loud about all of the grass that's been growing into the rock beds to my wife. She either is hopping on board with me with the grass or she's sick of the b*tching about it and decided to start going to town on it. The beer probably helped! It's looking great now! I even got her to mow 3500 sq/ft with the manual mower. She said it was harder than it looked to push. Haha.







*MAY 8TH*

After doing some research about going low, I ran across a huge step I missed...And that was dethatching. I was avoiding it until fall because of weed pressure but apparently that was not the right decision. After a lot of debating, I decided I had to go for it now. It really sucks because I felt like the grass was finally starting to respond to being mowed low and turning green for the most part but there was so much yellow and dead grass that it had to be done. Learning as I go has not been the most fun...now I'm basically starting from scratch. Here is a post from my journey that day:

I started the morning by renting a bluebird power rake from an Ace hardware. Got it loaded up and drove home. Had my wife help me unload it and got to trying it out. I put it on the highest height just to test where we were at and holy cow. It started DIGGING. I was thinking, there is no way. I must be on the lowest setting...but sure sh*t, I was on the highest.

Well WTF. After ****ing with it and trying it out on other parts of my yard, there was no way I could use this. It will literally till the entire yard. So I had to take the walk of shame back into the house, where my wife was taking care of my two young kids and tell her I needed help loading it back up again. Not happy!

I contacted a fellow TLF member and asked if I could borrow his Sun Joe and he was all for it. 1.5 hours later I was back at the house trying this all over again. And man, that Sun Joe is the real deal.

I had a blast with that thing.. I barely had any thatch before I started but I knew I had a dead grass issue. After having it cut so short I couldn't believe how much dead grass came up. To be honest, I didn't even think it was possible! I felt like I was being a little too aggressive with giant clumps coming up everywhere (the photos don't do it justice). I feel like I have barely any green grass with how much dead grass I took out.

I don't even know how I was getting any water into the soil with that much dead grass sitting on top.

I by far have the ugliest lawn on the block now, but I'm confident I'll have one of the best come June/July. Gonna hit the rest of the lawn tomorrow and start spoon feeding some N. And also hitting it with another dose of PreM, humic acid, and rgs.

Before dethatching:















During:





Before vs After (same angles...shadows make it hard to see the difference):









Overall, I'm way behind where I want/should be, but I'm confident I'll get there. I'm too deep down the rabbit hole to fail now!


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## jrubb42

Got a cut in on the front yard yesterday along with spraying .25/k of urea, some rgs, and humic 12. Been cutting everyday/every other for the past couple weeks. Plan is to continue doing that until it recovers. Than maybe go down to 3 days a week.

Dethatched the back yard. Wont be showing much of the backyard this yard as it's on the back burner with mole, leveling, and quackgrass issues. More worried about going low on the front and the sides of the lawn.







Also my oldest helped me with this mess. He's 2.5. Ha!







He had a blast helping daddy and playing in the dirt! It was way more work than I thought it'd be. 3 hours later, it was finished. Looks wayyyy better!


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## g-man

Rock areas like that just need some gly. No need to break your back pulling weeds from the rocks.


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## jrubb42

g-man said:


> Rock areas like that just need some gly. No need to break your back pulling weeds from the rocks.


I know, but it gives me something to do when I'm not working on the lawn. And it's instant gratification once it's done instead of waiting for multiple application of gly. Appreciate you looking out for my back though!


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## jrubb42

I finally got the GM1000 back from the golf course. I had the superintendent install a new 8 blade reel and high cut bedknife. Along with that he ground the bedknife and greased up the whole machine. He said he only wanted $50 but I threw him $120 for dealing with everything, in hopes he'll work on my machine in the future if needed. I asked about sharpening and he said he's only willing to do spin grinds, so we'll have to see what I decide with that.

I got it home and mowed my first stripes on Friday. I was really pumped about the stripes, but I've been noticing the grass hasn't been responding like I had wished. It's been 3 weeks since I cut it down and there are still areas that are really struggling. Here is the conversation about all of that: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18087

Really sucks to say that I'm going to have to bring up the HOC to 1.5 and let it heal a bit. I'm going to have to use my manual reel to do it because my rider will scalp in a lot of different areas (leveling is on the agenda for this fall). So I gotta let the GM sit after just getting it back. It really sucks but hopefully I can use it again in a month/month and half. Really kicking myself for not just scalping the yard on the first cut. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be in the position, but ya live and learn.


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## jrubb42

Tried mowing for the first time in 4 days at 1.5 and I barely cut anything. The grass looks night and day compared to what it did Saturday morning. It's super green and looks to be healthy in 80% of the lawn. There are definitely a few spots still struggling though. Measured the grass and it looks like it's right around 1 and 3/8. Might try to maintain it at this height since it looks pretty healthy and I plan on going back down to 7/8.

4 days ago:





Today:


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## jrubb42

Noticed some leaf spot and melting out coming in on the property line in the backyard. Didn't see any on the front or sides of the yard. Put down a curative rate of azoxy in the back and a heavy preventative rate on the front and sides. Along with .15/k of N. It's supposed to rain for the next 4 days, so getting that down was pretty important I think.

Grass is healthy in 90% of the yard and starting to recover at 1.5 due to all of the mistakes. Goal is the be at 1 inch by early July unless it's scorching at that time.


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## jrubb42

Put down 2 lbs/k of SOP on the front and sides. Lawn is recovering insanely well and is super dark in person. Still sitting at 1.5.. I'm thinking I'll give it one more week and go down to 1.25. The "rough" spots are starting to fill in nicely. Can barely notice them anymore.


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## g-man

:thumbup: do a small section in the back at 1.25 to see how it looks before going for it in the rest of the lawn.


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## MNLawnGuy1980

Looks great @jrubb42!

@g-man, that seems awfully logical to do a test area first. Jesse listen to him, not me! I would have recommended going down to .75" to see how it does!


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## jrubb42

Thanks @g-man and @MNLawnGuy1980 !

My backyard is at 3 inches so that will just repeat the process from earlier this year, but yes I'll find a test area and start there! Appreciate the help fellas!


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## jrubb42

Today was a great day. Got my grass catcher for my manual reel and decided to bring the grass down to 1.25. I felt like it recovered way better than I thought it would to this point, so I went for it. It seemed like I took off way more grass than 0.25 inches because I was emptying the grass catcher every 2 or 3 passes.

It took forever to do, but it was so worth it. I cut 2 ways and the grass looks amazing. Had my first neighbor come over and ask what I was doing to make the grass look so amazing.

The pictures don't do it justice. I was standing there in awe for awhile. It looks damn good.

Goal is to get down to 1 inch before I start using the GM1000





@Stuofsci02 this one is for you. Ha!


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## Stuofsci02

There you go!! I love it! Congrats!


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## g-man

It looks like you can take it lower now.


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## Vtx531

Amazing how much better it looks now and impressive what you can do with a manual reel mower. Enjoyed reading your commentary! Wouldn't mind seeing some pics and info on the backyard to see the difference.


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## Chris LI

:mrgreen:


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## jrubb42

Thanks guys. Means a lot. I've been putting a ton of work to get to this point... @g-man I'm going to give it a few days and go down to 1 inch, then use the GM.

@Vtx531 thanks man. It's been a journey so far. I've kind of let the backyard go because of the moles and uneveness back there because of them. I've only been mowing at 3 inches and haven't been giving it the TLC it deserves. The last thing I want to do is get the backyard looking great and have 1 or 2 moles destroy everything. I plan on topdressing the front and sides this fall and evaluating back at that time. If the moles are mostly gone, I'm debating on leveling back there and going short next year. I'll give you some more angles of the rest of the yard and what I'm dealing with.


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## jrubb42

Yesterday was the day. I brought my HOC up to 1 inch on the Greensmaster and went for it. It went really well. No scalping anywhere and it looked good. Got a double cut in on the main side of the yard and just went over it once on the side yard.

Already thinking about bringing it down to 7/8ths lol. Didn't get very many good photos but I took a couple.











Also, the stripes faded after just an hour. I'm guessing I have to burn them in with multiple passes?



This morning I also woke up at 4:30am to spray RGS, Humic Acid, and Microgreene. Supposed to be a hot week so I wanted to beat the heat and turn the irrigation on after. Also, my neighbors think I'm crazy as it is - so I figured I could get away with them not seeing me spray again. Lol. I've noticed it's wayyyy easier to see where you've sprayed in the morning, with the dew and with the sun not quite over the horizon.


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## MNLawnGuy1980

Looks great man! Long trip to get there but my gosh that looks amazing. Just frame that first picture from today and call it a year!


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## rob13psu

Wow, that recovered nicely and then some. Looking great!


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## Harts

Great recovery! Congrats. It will only get better.


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## synergy0852

Nice recovery @jrubb42, looks excellent!


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## Stuofsci02

There it is! Looks sweet. You must be really stoked and all doubt evaporated..

Are you sure the stripes faded or did the sun just change position &#129307;


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## Wiley

Awesome progression &#128077;


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## Matix99def

Awesome recovery! Nice shout out to @Stuofsci02 hah. Nice call on breaking out the gm1000! Sometimes you just gotta go for it. Good work 👍🏿


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## jrubb42

Thanks everyone! Not gonna lie, it does feel damn good! Now it's time to work on getting the stripes straight and darkening up the grass a bit. I've lost some color over the last week. I'm sure part of that is going lower but I'll see what I can do.


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## jrubb42

Today... pffft... Man. I don't even have words. I went down to 7/8ths (plan on staying there until any signs of stress) and I'm in love. I could probably get it a little darker, but other than that....I'm happy for right now. VERY HAPPY. The low mow bug has bit me hard. This board has made all of this a reality. Just craziness.

Also, I've never hated a tree shadow so much in my life!!





















Putting down PGR and iron in the morning. I'm sore from all of the mowing, edging, and whipping today. Can't wait for the PGR to slow down growth.


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## Babameca

Another one bites the dust....no way going back to 1.5!  Looks addictively awesome!


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## jrubb42

Babameca said:


> Another one bites the dust....no way going back to 1.5!  Looks addictively awesome!


Thanks man! Never going back! Just think, I was at 3.5/4 last year.

Last cut was at 1 inch the other day and I thought it looked ok. Who knew 1/8th of an inch would make such a difference.


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## Stuofsci02

@jrubb42 .... Looking good. Amazing what 4 weeks can do... so you say you are sticking to 7/8ths... sure you are....🤥


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## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> @jrubb42 .... Looking good. Amazing what 4 weeks can do... so you say you are sticking to 7/8ths... sure you are....🤥


Right? Went from damn near killing my grass to loving it. And yes, I'm sticking to 7/8ths until fall. I'm scared to death of being ruined by POA. If anyone is gonna kill my grass it's going to be me. Not some damn weed! :lol:


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## jrubb42

Sprayed PGR this morning. Put down 4.3 mL/k in the main lawn and 5 mL/k on the side lawn (.15-.17 ounces). This is my first time putting down PGR and I wanted to experiment at different rates just to make sure there are no ill effects. Rather be safe than sorry right now after finally getting the grass to look good again.


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## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jrubb42 .... Looking good. Amazing what 4 weeks can do... so you say you are sticking to 7/8ths... sure you are....🤥
> 
> 
> 
> Right? Went from damn near killing my grass to loving it. And yes, I'm sticking to 7/8ths until fall. I'm scared to death of being ruined by POA. If anyone is gonna kill my grass it's going to be me. Not some damn weed! :lol:
Click to expand...

I don't think you were near killing your grass before. It is hard to do that without chemicals. Glad it is looking tip top. Now give 3/4 a try 👹


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## jrubb42

@Stuofsci02 I see where this is going this year :lol:


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## Babameca

@jrubb42 Poa can take over your lawn. I have spoken to few (more than that) surintendants and they all swear me to keep 1''. Poa is now a part of the golf corses, period. The think is that those guys manage acres and acres...
And all this at a strict budget and timelines. As a homeowners and lawn addict perspective changes (or does it?).
@Stuofsci02 will keep on pushing you to ruin your lawn :lol: and go lower. But what I can say is that below 1'' every 1/8'' looks like a whole inch below 3''...if follow me. KBG is a survivor and Poa A is bad but without trying you will never know if it is worth it.


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## Stuofsci02

Babameca said:


> @jrubb42 Poa can take over your lawn. I have spoken to few (more than that) surintendants and they all swear me to keep 1''. Poa is now a part of the golf corses, period. The think is that those guys manage acres and acres...
> And all this at a strict budget and timelines. As a homeowners and lawn addict perspective changes (or does it?).
> @Stuofsci02 will keep on pushing you to ruin your lawn :lol: and go lower. But what I can say is that below 1'' every 1/8'' looks like a whole inch below 3''...if follow me. KBG is a survivor and Poa A is bad but without trying you will never know if it is worth it.


Hey.... weren't you cutting at 3/4" at the beginning of the season?


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## Babameca

@Stuofsci02 Never changed the HOC. Thought it was 1'' until I found out I have been always at 7/8. Willing to try 1/2, but not this season and not for it to stay.


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## Harts

Just saw you recent post on "What did you do with your lawn..." Unreal transformation. I know you sweat a lot about going low. It has paid off.


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## bernstem

Looking good! Very nice journal with how you get to 7/8 and a killer lawn. Definitely shows that hard work pays off.

We should start a betting pool on when you get to 5/8.


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## Chris LI

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## jrubb42

@Harts @bernstem @Chris LI thank you for all the kind words guys. I really appreciate it. The grass is starting to get the attention of the neighborhood as ppl are constantly talking to me about it now. But yes, it's been a ton of work but I think the mistakes have made the journey even more enjoyable by seeing the great results finally. Hopefully I can keep it looking good through the summer.


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## rob13psu

>


Love the pup and the texture of the grass in this picture. Looks awesome.


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## jrubb42

rob13psu said:


> Love the pup and the texture of the grass in this picture. Looks awesome.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Here's a better one of him and the grass. He loves the short cut. He lays in it all day.

Your grass is looking great btw!


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## jrubb42

Was supposed to lay down iron, small amount of N, and a propiconizole on Saturday morning but ended up getting more drunk than I thought I would with the neighbors...then slept through my alarm. I went up north to my in-laws on the lake so I haven't had a chance to get it down. Looks like the wind is going to die down tomorrow morning, so the plan is to get it down then.

Grass doesn't seem to be slowing down at all with the small amount of PGR I laid down. Can't wait to reapply a larger amount.

Got a cut in last night. Grass is still looking good. Gotta buy a drill with a cable connected to it so I can drill out that damn stump. My battery on my drill dies after a couple minutes of going after it.


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## mowww

@jrubb42 looks fantastic!


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## jrubb42

Thanks @mowww! I've been looking forward to your journal this year and it's been pretty quiet! How have you liked the Electra? I've been eyeing one up but obviously the price tag is a deal-breaker for a lot of us.


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## mowww

jrubb42 said:


> Thanks @mowww! I've been looking forward to your journal this year and it's been pretty quiet! How have you liked the Electra? I've been eyeing one up but obviously the price tag is a deal-breaker for a lot of us.


Thanks, haha it has. We close on our house Friday, then we can get into the lawn. I've really enjoyed the Electra. I've got all of the attachments if you ever want to give it a spin. Traded the reels in for the 2.0s and installed a heavier wheel kit.


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## jrubb42

mowww said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks @mowww! I've been looking forward to your journal this year and it's been pretty quiet! How have you liked the Electra? I've been eyeing one up but obviously the price tag is a deal-breaker for a lot of us.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, haha it has. We close on our house Friday, then we can get into the lawn. I've really enjoyed the Electra. I've got all of the attachments if you ever want to give it a spin. Traded the reels in for the 2.0s and installed a heavier wheel kit.
Click to expand...

Congrats! I may have to take you up on that sometime. Where city are you moving to?


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## Stuofsci02

Hey.. Weren't you told (scolded) that your grass could not go low and look this nice. I think that was about 3 weeks ago... Haha... You proved him wrong.


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## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> Hey.. Weren't you told (scolded) that your grass could not go low and look this nice. I think that was about 3 weeks ago... Haha... You proved him wrong.


Yep! Pretty much! Now just need to get it darker!


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## mowww

@jrubb42 Lake Elmo. Holler if you need some ferrous sulfate to play around with to darken.


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## jrubb42

mowww said:


> @jrubb42 Lake Elmo. Holler if you need some ferrous sulfate to play around with to darken.


That's next on my list if FEature and a heavier dose of PGR don't darken it up. I'll let you know. Thanks!


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## jrubb42

Got up early and sprayed FEature and .15 lbs/k of N. Halfway through the first part of my yard I noticed it wasn't spraying at full power. Realized it was getting clogged. Finished up that side and had around 1 gallon left out of the 3.5 I started with. Just dumped out the rest because I didn't want to guess on where it was applied heavy compared to light.

Cleaned out the sprayer and tried again with the other half of my yard. Same fucking thing. Dumped out another gallon or so.

Obviously I need to pre-mix FEature by itself and maybe even filter it. I had particles floating all over in my tank (even after using the filter on my Chapin). Frustrating. Hopefully my yard doesn't end up with blotchy/inconsistent color.


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## Chris LI

Sorry to hear about the sprayer clogging issue, but the photos from Monday are fantastic! Your progress is encouraging me to keep striving to maintain a lower HOC than usual. It's been difficult without PGR, so I probably will need to raise HOC at some point, but seeing positive results that you've had, keeps pushing that date off.  I would expect others that may be in a similar situation to be motivated by your journal, too.

Hopefully, the clogging issue affects you minimally and you can spot spray to blend in any lighter spots that may occur.


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## jrubb42

@Chris LI thanks for the kind words man. It's been a rollercoaster ride. Most of it not being enjoyable. Ha. The last couple of weeks have been pretty cool though. Especially when you constantly get compliments from random people walking by.


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## jrubb42

Got a cut in today. 3 days from the last time I cut. Which is the longest I've gone without cutting in a couple months. I can tell the PGR is working a little bit because I would usually have a ton more clippings than I did today.











I noticed some leaf spot the other day and put down a curative of Azoxy and Propiconizole together in the same mix. Today I notice brown hazy spots all over the yard. When examining the area it just looks like dead material/thatch. Not like the melting out I've seen before. I have no idea what is going on in these areas. Definitely not from a lack of water either


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## Stuofsci02

Can you pull some out and take a pic? Are you sure they aren't just the seed stalks going brown? My turned brown this week..


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## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> Can you pull some out and take a pic? Are you sure they aren't just the seed stalks going brown? My turned brown this week..


I'll pull some out in the morning. Thought you might be able to zoom in on the close-ups, but I'll definitely get a variety of what is going on.

There's a very small amount of leaf spot and the rest of the leaves are either perfectly green, perfectly dead, or a small amount of weire light brown spread on them. I was wondering if it was PGR burn somehow. Just weird that it's random spots in the yard. Probably like 6 or 7 of them.

I don't think they're stalks. I had a ton of stalks last year and this doesn't look like that. I rubbed my hand over the area and I didn't feel the hard stalks either. I'll investigate further in the morning for them just to make sure.


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 Exact same problem, same time... with LS. Azoxy down as well.
And even similar problem with the nozzles :lol: Look at the Teejet turbojet (not induction ones). Looks like they clog less than the XR or 'regular' series. This is what the manufacture says. They stay somewhere between the XR and AI in terms of droplet size and drifting.


----------



## jrubb42

@Stuofsci02 Here are some photos of the leaf spot/whatever else it is. The problem is starting to grow and become a bigger issue. Hard to tell by photos but it's getting bad. Azoxy and Propiconizal don't seem to be affecting it. Gonna put down another curative rate in the next day or two.

















Hard to get a good photo of leaf damage because there isn't much of it. It's either green or dead.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Does the same plant have dead leaves and green ones?


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> Does the same plant have dead leaves and green ones?


Yes it seems to look that way. Way harder identifying stuff with the grass so short because there's not much blade.

I'm 50/50 on doing a Reno this fall. This is the 3rd straight summer at this house with bad areas of leaf spot/melting out and I'm thinking of using some cultivars that are a little better at handling disease. The lawn is degrading fast. Might as well kill it. Lol.


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does the same plant have dead leaves and green ones?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it seems to look that way. Way harder identifying stuff with the grass so short because there's not much blade.
> 
> I'm 50/50 on doing a Reno this fall. This is the 3rd straight summer at this house with bad areas of leaf spot/melting out and I'm thinking of using some cultivars that are a little better at handling disease. The lawn is degrading fast. Might as well kill it. Lol.
Click to expand...

So is this something you have had before when it was longer in previous years? Low cut turf isn't easy unfortunately, and issue are on display for everyone to see. I think if the same plant it has to be fungal related.


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does the same plant have dead leaves and green ones?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it seems to look that way. Way harder identifying stuff with the grass so short because there's not much blade.
> 
> I'm 50/50 on doing a Reno this fall. This is the 3rd straight summer at this house with bad areas of leaf spot/melting out and I'm thinking of using some cultivars that are a little better at handling disease. The lawn is degrading fast. Might as well kill it. Lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So is this something you have had before when it was longer in previous years? Low cut turf isn't easy unfortunately, and issue are on display for everyone to see. I think if the same plant it has to be fungal related.
Click to expand...

Yeah I've had it every year. This year looks by far the worst it has with the short grass though. Usually Propi and Azoxy knock it out right away and I'm done with it for a month or so, but this year it doesn't seem like it's touching it in the short grass. Kind of concerning.


----------



## jrubb42

Here's some photos of how bad things are getting. Propi or Axoxy don't seem to be touching it. Everyone around here seems to have fungal issues except a select few.


----------



## bernstem

Low cut turf is way less tolerant of everything and it shows problems much more. Azoxystrobin and Propiconazole should treat Leaf Spot very well - are you sure of your diagnosis? Daconil should treat it as well but isn't approved for residential lawns. Velista is another option.


----------



## jrubb42

bernstem said:


> Low cut turf is way less tolerant of everything and it shows problems much more. Azoxystrobin and Propiconazole should treat Leaf Spot very well - are you sure of your diagnosis? Daconil should treat it as well but isn't approved for residential lawns. Velista is another option.


I went out and started trying to find as many different varieties of injured plants as I could and to be honest, I didn't find much leaf spot. I did earlier in the week but maybe the Azoxy/propi did its job.

Those areas started out as tiny circles and are growing by the hour it seems like. Most of the blades that are injured just look to be turning yellow. Here are some photos. Hopefully someone can help me out.

First photo is leaf spot. Took me a long long time to find that blade though.


----------



## bernstem

The first picture looks like leaf spot. The rest just look like diseased or unhappy turf. It can take a week or more to grow out of disease, and even with curative rates some leaves are going to be too infected to survive.


----------



## jrubb42

bernstem said:


> The first picture looks like leaf spot. The rest just look like diseased or unhappy turf. It can take a week or more to grow out of disease, and even with curative rates some leaves are going to be too infected to survive.


Oh it's definitely unhappy lol. The only concerning thing is that it's growing. Rapidly.


----------



## jrubb42

Got a mow in today. Turns out those spots weren't fungus. They were severe heat stress/drought symptoms, which is crazy because it did not give me any warning signs of the purple/black haze you get with longer grass.

Yesterday, I absolutely drenched a controlled area to see how it would react and it looked a lot better this morning compared to the rest of the areas. So I set the hose down this morning in the bad areas and just let water go for a long time. Then ran my irrigation to see any issues. One of the heads I replaced at the beginning of the year did not have a correct spray pattern. It was just shooting far and not misting the giant "yellow" area. I adjusted another head that had the same issue going on.

Looks a lot better tonight. I'll take photos in the morning so you can compare with the same exposure.

We've been dealing with 90+ degree heat, a drought, and crazy amounts of wind everyday. The Sandy soil can't hang on to any water it seems like..

As for the lawn, I still wanna burn the MF down. There are a lot of areas struggling and I feel like I will never be completely satisfied until I do a Reno.

The wife and kids are up at the in-laws for the week while I work from home. I'll see them Friday and probably ask for "permission" then. Probably a good idea to ask on father's day weekend. Odds will probably be a little better. Haha.

I'll also upload pics of the areas struggling tomorrow.

Here are some photos from the cut today.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Glad to see you figured it out.... it is a learning process. If it was easy everyone would be doing it &#129323;


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> Glad to see you figured it out.... it is a learning process. If it was easy everyone would be doing it 🤫


Thanks man. Sometimes I just overthink things. The blades were turning a weird gold color and I thought it was melting out for sure. Nope. Just some simple water did the trick.

Now if I could get the damn dog to stop pissing in the front yard that would be great. He follows me around everywhere I go so I get it...but man! :lol:


----------



## Stuofsci02

Yeah.. my new pump appears to piss roundup... my back yard is looking rough...


----------



## g-man

Ask for permission? Nah. Ask for forgiveness. "Hey honey, I think I know why the lawn turned brown. The guys on the lawn forum told me I screwed up some application. I guess now I have to seed in August. Yeah it is going to be ok".


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Looking good @jrubb42. Mix lawns do seem like they can be more prone to drought stress than all KBG.

If you go with the reno what cultivar are you considering?


----------



## jrubb42

@Stuofsci02 I've been following around mine with a hose in the front. Once in awhile he'll piss when I'm not looking. And hence the spots. My back yard takes a beating from him. It's a mess right now.

@g-man we like to call everyone on here "my lawn buddies". My lawn buddies said this or my lawn buddies said that. I'll try using your line this weekend and I'll let you know how it goes!

@SNOWBOB11 thanks. I'm definitely looking for something more tolerant to heat, disease, mowing low, and darker. I've been considering bluebank/Mazama/Bewitched mix. But haven't thought too hard about it until I get the ok. I know time is ticking so it's going to be a rush to make things happen if she tells me yes.

Part of me wants a mono, the other part of me says play it safe. I'm more conservative by nature so I'll probably end up with a mix.. So many decisions and gambles when it comes to burning down your existing lawn.. ugh.


----------



## g-man

You have to kill it first. That line wont work if you use it before the gly.


----------



## jrubb42

I thought you were talking about my brown spots that I already had on my lawn :lol:


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> I thought you were talking about my brown spots that I already had on my lawn :lol:


Those will come back and be fine August, so you need to do something more drastic..


----------



## jrubb42

So here are all of the flaws in my yard that make me want to start a reno... Overcast day with rain this morning so it really shows EVERYTHING. And it's not pretty...

Two circular spots that the last owner threw down seed to help a couple spots grow back. I think it's a cheap kbg seed and you can definitely tell it's a different grass. Started dying/go dormant in the heat last week and I kind it let it so I could put some plugs in it.


Small stump that needs to be removed and leveled.



"Domination line" looks like shit. Idk if the neighbors fescue was on the property line and just died or what the deal is. Grass refuses to grow short in that area.





These hills on the side of the house are soooo damn unlevel. I'm constantly scalping them or avoiding the 4-6 inch ruts I tried to get photos of. It's bad. Just all bad...









Roots that make the yard uneven. GM bounces over them.



This area never grew well. Was a lot more hidden with long grass but with the low cut.. it's bad. Screwdriver only went in maybe an inch. Feels like a ton of smaller rocks below the surface.





Still don't know what to do about this root. Makes mowing this side of the yard not enjoyable



And finally my heat stressed grass.



Well that was fun. Think I'm gonna go have a drink now, even though it's only 10 am.


----------



## Stuofsci02

@jrubb42 .. This hobby is cruel and has highs and lows sometimes just days or even hours apart. It probably seems worse then it is and this is a time of year when things start to deteriorate after spring.

The good news is that it can always be fixed. A reno is always an option. You could also this year do a PRG overseed if you wanted to get another year under your belt before doing anything drastic.

The hills might be something you just mow with the rotary. The edge of your neighbors property will fix itself with time I think as you continue to mow low. The edge of the driveway is something I would definitely look at fixing in Aug.... Do some beds around the trees to minimize the roots. Check your sprinkler coverage on those other dry spots..


----------



## MNLawnGuy1980

jrubb42 said:


> .
> We've been dealing with 90+ degree heat, a drought, and crazy amounts of wind everyday. The Sandy soil can't hang on to any water it seems like..


@jrubb42 
I think this is huge and has been overlooked by a lot in our area, thinking we have disease or the lawn not taking to a different height. My neighbors have been asking if they have disease or something else for awhile now. I have been beating myself up over my dumpster fire of a lawn for about a month and a half now. What I am judging it on is what it was doing last year at this time. What I have not been considering is the extremely harsh weather we have been having with no rain and big winds, thinking it should be fine. Comparing it to last year when it basically rained every day for a month or two and my lawn was so thick and lush.

A guy I know about half mile away did a full reno two falls ago with a good KBG and his looked great last year, struggling this year just like everyone else in the area.

What I am getting at is maybe you don't have to do the full reno but address your roots and stump, aerate, level and overseed in the fall.

Not trying to talk you out of it, just trying to give you some other perspective on it.


----------



## jrubb42

@Stuofsci02 @MNLawnGuy1980 thanks guys. I really appreciate it and you have given me a lot to chew on.

I didn't post the bad areas of my lawn to vent or complain, but posted them just to show off the areas that need help in my yard and my thinking of why I want to do a reno. We all love to post the best looking photos of our yard, but I rarely see areas that we really struggle with (including me).

It may sound like I'm jumping the gun on a reno over a couple dry spots that I misidentified, but here are my thoughts behind it.... A lot of the problems you guys mentioned would be taken care of during the reno - leveling the huge ruts and small dips, taking care of the rocks on the side of the driveway, getting rid of the stump, irrigation coverage, etc. The big thing is that I'm working from home this year because of Covid. I've never had, and probably never will have, this much time to spend in the yard. Doing a reno this year makes sense because I have the time to do it. Should I spend a little more time mowing low and getting to know what works and what doesn't with my lawn? Probably. But I feel like it's now or....maybe a looonnnnggg ways down the road. And I'll never be satisfied with the grass knowing there's elite cultivars out there that could look and perform better (I know there are plenty of ppl with GREAT looking yards without elite cultivars, its just in my head that I want the best if possible). And who knows if I'll be able to get the reno done how I want, when I finally am able to do it because of time and kids.

Now it sounds like I'm already committed to doing it, but that's still not the case. I still have some hoops to jump through to make it happen (I'm honestly scared as hell burning down the grass and making it worse than I already have somehow lol) Just giving my reasoning behind why I want to do it.

As always, thanks for the support guys. I'll let you know what I decide...or what my wife decides :lol: Grass looks a lot better today with all the rain we got yesterday.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Sounds like it is a good time for you to reno this year, so let the planning start.....


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> Sounds like it is a good time for you to reno this year, so let the planning start.....


I'll have an answer by the end of the weekend. I brought it up to the boss last night and she refused to give me answer. She would blatantly not respond to me "asking about it" or change the subject. I will get an answer out of her by Sunday. And if she says no, I'll bitch and moan about it until she finally says yes. Might sleep on the couch a few nights but it will be worth it.


----------



## bernstem

You will be happier with a renovation. Newer cultivars are more disease resistant, like low cutting better, and are darker and finer. Compared to a mixed lawn, there is really no comparison in appearance to a single species blend, or even better, a monostand.

If it helps, my wife thought I was crazy renovating my lawn the second time, but after the fact admitted it clearly looked better. Doesn't mean she would have done it if she were me, but she supported the decision after the fact. If you are willing to cram everything in, you can get the lawn killed, leveled, and seeded within a week. If you really want to be crazy (and trust your sprayer skills), you can cut that down to a weekend.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Oh man... You need permission to do a reno... I just tell my wife at the beginning of each summer the sections that will be dead and off limits Aug/Sept..


----------



## zeus201

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like it is a good time for you to reno this year, so let the planning start.....
> 
> 
> 
> I'll have an answer by the end of the weekend. I brought it up to the boss last night and she refused to give me answer. She would blatantly not respond to me "asking about it" or change the subject. I will get an answer out of her by Sunday. And if she says no, I'll b---- and moan about it until she finally says yes. Might sleep on the couch a few nights but it will be worth it.
Click to expand...

Just say the fungal pressure took over and you have no other recourse but to start from scratch.


----------



## g-man

If you are doing the reno, order the seed asap. It is going to start to run out.


----------



## Babameca

I had nothing to explain to my wife, but very extensively to the city environmental expert. There are always challenges with a reno, and quite often turn to be not you have planned for.


----------



## jrubb42

@bernstem thanks for the reassurance of everything. I'm going to try to do this right - fallowing the dead grass, fallowing the topsoil, etc. So I'm hopefully going to play the long game.

@Stuofsci02 you've probably been doing this longer than me. Jumping into a random expensive hobby in the yard hasn't been the smoothest with my wife and I. She still don't get it yet. In a few more years I can probably be on the same level as you!

@zeus201 would've been a great approach if I didn't mention the Reno already. She's no dumby.

@Babameca well, we're about to see what kind of curve balls it throws at me!

And for the good news. I got the ok! She said "whatever makes you happy" In a sarcastic tone. But she's good with it! The deal is that I have to put a sign by the road that says, "My Husband is Crazy.. I'll Be Drinking A Lot of Wine"

@g-man I'll be ordering seed at the beginning of this week hopefully. Just gotta make the decision of what I want.... QUICKLY...


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 Get wine by the gallon (it may save you on the long way) or start making your own (I don't buy wine for years now). The choice of seeds is so so magnificent nowa days, you can't go wrong.
I am so looking forward to follow you in this adventure. Like @Stuofsci02 wrote once, I'll get enough popcorn and a beer reading you going thru


----------



## jrubb42

@Babameca what kind of wine do you make? Might have to bug you for a recipe...this winter.. after this madness.

Not gonna lie. I'm already feeling the calm before the storm.. I'm ready but a little nervous. Game time is right around the corner already. Putting together the game plan this week and will keep you posted.


----------



## Babameca

jrubb42 said:


> @Babameca what kind of wine do you make? Might have to bug you for a recipe...this winter.. after this madness.
> 
> Not gonna lie. I'm already feeling the calm before the storm.. I'm ready but a little nervous. Game time is right around the corner already. Putting together the game plan this week and will keep you posted.


Buying the wine kit from Costco (in Canada). I am sure you can find those in wine making locations. Need a carboy, bucket, syphon, hose and few other small things and that's it. I pay on sale for it 40$ and it makes 70 bottles (in 2 batches). It takes about 4-5 weeks to get ready, You can overlap batches if consumption is high :lol:. Total labour time per batch is about 2h. No bad smells!


----------



## jrubb42

Not going to lie. I'm having a hard time pulling the trigger on buying seed for renovating this fall. I know once I buy the seed there's no turning back. I have the cultivars picked out but I'm kind of sick to my stomach thinking about it buying it. I know I will be happy in the long run, but I'm pretty nervous about getting some type of Poa or having a disaster happen during this reno. I need to gly by this weekend to be on track for an early August seed down.. :shock: :shock: :shock:

Here's today's mow for what it's worth..


----------



## Stuofsci02

Doesn't look too bad. This is a tough time of year...

Why do you need to gly so early? I would think seed down Aug 10-15th would be pretty good for your area which would be similar to mine (I did my playground reno seed down Aug 18th last year and it went perfectly). I would think you could start with the gly around July 11th. Then go again July 25th. Then again Aug 8th.


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> Doesn't look too bad. This is a tough time of year...
> 
> Why do you need to gly so early? I would think seed down Aug 10-15th would be pretty good for your area which would be similar to mine (I did my playground reno seed down Aug 18th last year and it went perfectly). I would think you could start with the gly around July 11th. Then go again July 25th. Then again Aug 8th.


Was giving myself 6 weeks to fallow my current yard plus the topsoil I bring in. I was actually aiming for August 8th for seed down and would adjust for weather.

I'm going on vacation for a week on August 17th. Wanted to give myself a week or so before, to have seed down in case there's any washouts.

Thanks for all the help u give me. I appreciate it.


----------



## Mark B

Very much enjoyed reading through your journal, great decision making and you have made very good use of experienced members knowledge for your aid! Wishing you well for your future lawn goals :thumbup:


----------



## jrubb42

Mark B said:


> Very much enjoyed reading through your journal, great decision making and you have made very good use of experienced members knowledge for your aid! Wishing you well for your future lawn goals :thumbup:


Thanks for the kind words. Idk about the "great decision making" part. I made a lot of mistakes along the way and learned a lot. Sometimes I feel like I'm annoying asking so many questions :lol:

I may have made another mistake.. who knows. But I just bought the seed for the renovation this fall. All of this hard work just to kill it. Maybe my wife is right...maybe I am a psychopath. Haha.

40% Mazama, 30% Bewitched, 30% Bluebank.


----------



## rob13psu

jrubb42 said:


> Thanks for the kind words. Idk about the "great decision making" part. I made a lot of mistakes along the way and learned a lot. Sometimes I feel like I'm annoying asking so many questions :lol:
> 
> I may have made another mistake.. who knows. But I just bought the seed for the renovation this fall. All of this hard work just to kill it. Maybe my wife is right...maybe I am a psychopath. Haha.
> 
> 40% Mazama, 30% Bewitched, 30% Bluebank.


That sounds like a good mix.

Just remember you made your current lawn look great! You can make the reno look great as well. High risk high reward.

I'll be in the same boat this time next year.


----------



## Vtx531

Do you have irrigation?

If not, the time to do it is definitely before you do the reno.

I did it once with existing grass. Never again. From now on I'm always going to kill everything and regrade after a sprinkler install - especially since you will have the irrigation to help make the germination part go smoother. Dealing with hoses multiple times a day for a long KBG germination period doesn't sound fun.


----------



## jrubb42

rob13psu said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the kind words. Idk about the "great decision making" part. I made a lot of mistakes along the way and learned a lot. Sometimes I feel like I'm annoying asking so many questions :lol:
> 
> I may have made another mistake.. who knows. But I just bought the seed for the renovation this fall. All of this hard work just to kill it. Maybe my wife is right...maybe I am a psychopath. Haha.
> 
> 40% Mazama, 30% Bewitched, 30% Bluebank.
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds like a good mix.
> 
> Just remember you made your current lawn look great! You can make the reno look great as well. High risk high reward.
> 
> I'll be in the same boat this time next year.
Click to expand...

That's basically what I keep telling myself.. it will be worth it in the end, if it works out. Word of caution for next year..the stress it no joke. I haven't even started the reno yet but I'm already feeling the self-doubt. I'll get through this though. There's a lot of issues I'm able to fix by doing this now.

If it wasn't for covid I wouldn't do this for a couple years, but I have too much free time right now.


----------



## jrubb42

Vtx531 said:


> Do you have irrigation?
> 
> If not, the time to do it is definitely before you do the reno.
> 
> I did it once with existing grass. Never again. From now on I'm always going to kill everything and regrade after a sprinkler install - especially since you will have the irrigation to help make the germination part go smoother. Dealing with hoses multiple times a day for a long KBG germination period doesn't sound fun.


I do have irrigation, but I have a few localized dry spots in the middle of my lawn because the coverage isn't sprinkler to sprinkler. I looked at photos from the last two years and they show up on the same spots. I'm planning on adding a head or two in the middle of my lawn and just adding them on to existing zones. It's a risk with having enough pressure but I'm confident one more head shouldn't be too big of an issue.

DEFINITELY doing it before the leveling! Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## Vtx531

jrubb42 said:


> Vtx531 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have irrigation?
> 
> If not, the time to do it is definitely before you do the reno.
> 
> I did it once with existing grass. Never again. From now on I'm always going to kill everything and regrade after a sprinkler install - especially since you will have the irrigation to help make the germination part go smoother. Dealing with hoses multiple times a day for a long KBG germination period doesn't sound fun.
> 
> 
> 
> I do have irrigation, but I have a few localized dry spots in the middle of my lawn because the coverage isn't sprinkler to sprinkler. I looked at photos from the last two years and they show up on the same spots. I'm planning on adding a head or two in the middle of my lawn and just adding them on to existing zones. It's a risk with having enough pressure but I'm confident one more head shouldn't be too big of an issue.
> 
> DEFINITELY doing it before the leveling! Thanks for the heads up!
Click to expand...

Not so much the pressure you need to worry about as it is the GPM. For example, a sprinkler head in a corner should have a nozzle with 25% of the flow GPM of a sprinkler that does full 360 degree rotation. So depending how many heads you already have on the zone and which nozzles they have, adding a 90 degree corner head might be no big deal but adding a 180 degree or 360 degree head could put you into a total flow rate that would be dangerous for your pipes.

Anyways, just something to keep in mind and I look forward to seeing your reno!


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> Vtx531 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have irrigation?
> 
> If not, the time to do it is definitely before you do the reno.
> 
> I did it once with existing grass. Never again. From now on I'm always going to kill everything and regrade after a sprinkler install - especially since you will have the irrigation to help make the germination part go smoother. Dealing with hoses multiple times a day for a long KBG germination period doesn't sound fun.
> 
> 
> 
> I do have irrigation, but I have a few localized dry spots in the middle of my lawn because the coverage isn't sprinkler to sprinkler. I looked at photos from the last two years and they show up on the same spots. I'm planning on adding a head or two in the middle of my lawn and just adding them on to existing zones. It's a risk with having enough pressure but I'm confident one more head shouldn't be too big of an issue.
> 
> DEFINITELY doing it before the leveling! Thanks for the heads up!
Click to expand...

You might be able to change the nozzle in the heads on that zone to lower flow so you can add another head. You will need to run the zone longer but you'll get more even coverage.


----------



## jrubb42

@Vtx531 @Stuofsci02 Damnit. Why does everything have to be so complicated. Your guys responses make me not want to touch it and just drag a hose and sprinkler out. I was planning on putting a 360 degree pop up head in the middle of the lawn and calling it good, but now that sounds like a bad idea...


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> @Vtx531 @Stuofsci02 Damnit. Why does everything have to be so complicated. Your guys responses make me not want to touch it and just drag a hose and sprinkler out. I was planning on putting a 360 degree pop up head in the middle of the lawn and calling it good, but now that sounds like a bad idea...


Whose heads do you have? Rainbird, Hunter?


----------



## Chris LI

I think there are lower gpm heads, so you may still be able to add a 360* pop up. If you switch out all the heads on the zone you are adding the 360 to, you should be able to maintain enough pressure to add the additional head. Sorry, I don't have any specifics, but I recall coming across lower psi/gpm pops while trying to reconfigure my DIY system. Also, MP rotors have become popular discussions with more efficient water usage. I'm starting to look at them to add heads without dropping pressure too much, but I'm still quite the rookie on that subject. It might be worth looking into as another option.

If you don't mind hand watering, a 3/4" hose with an Underhill shower nozzle puts down a lot of water in a short period of time. Check out my journal for info.


----------



## jrubb42

@Stuofsci02 hunter rotors are on both of the zones I was debating on hooking up to.

@Chris LI thanks for all of the info. I've hand watered a lot in those areas this year and didn't mind it. I was hoping for a long term solution without that much work but it sounds like that is not gonna be the case. I was hoping to take care of it while I'm doing the Reno since the yard will be tore up anyway.


----------



## Stuofsci02

@jrubb42 .. It is easy to do this. You just need to figure out how many heads you have on a zone. Most 3/4" zones will do about 10 gpm. So you need to divide up the number of heads you have by 10. So if you had 4 heads you could put 2.5 gpm nozzles in each. Or if you had a 360 head and three 90 heads you could do a 5 gpm in the 360 and 1.5 gpm in the other three. The nozzle count should add up to close to 10 (or whatever flowrate your system can achieve).

The nozzles can be bought on Amazon and can be changed out in a minute or two. Just make sure you buy the sizes you need. The link below is to a random nozzle tree and I can't say it is the right size for you..

https://www.amazon.com/Hunter-Rotor-Sprinkler-Nozzle-10-Pack/dp/B07J2X18H1/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=hunter+pro+nozzle+tree&qid=1593264664&sr=8-1


----------



## Vtx531

jrubb42 said:


> @Stuofsci02 hunter rotors are on both of the zones I was debating on hooking up to.


Probably Hunter PGP heads? If so you are in luck because the PGP nozzles are easy to change out and they have nozzle options to go very low in terms of GPM - so you can have a lot of heads on one zone.

If you have the sprinkler head tool for the heads, you can pull it up and you will see a number imprinted (1-12) on the red nozzle to see what you are working with.


----------



## jrubb42

@Stuofsci02 @Vtx531 thanks fellas. This makes it a lot more simple than I thought. Can I just assume my psi is 50 and be ok you think? I'm guessing normal pressure is around 50 and that's why it's in bold.


----------



## DiabeticKripple

jrubb42 said:


> @Stuofsci02 @Vtx531 thanks fellas. This makes it a lot more simple than I thought. Can I just assume my psi is 50 and be ok you think? I'm guessing normal pressure is around 50 and that's why it's in bold.


get a pressure gauge that hooks to your hose bib and see what pressure you have there with no water running anywhere on the property.

the bold is most likely the ideal pressure for that nozzle.


----------



## Stuofsci02

DiabeticKripple said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Stuofsci02 @Vtx531 thanks fellas. This makes it a lot more simple than I thought. Can I just assume my psi is 50 and be ok you think? I'm guessing normal pressure is around 50 and that's why it's in bold.
> 
> 
> 
> get a pressure gauge that hooks to your hose bib and see what pressure you have there with no water running anywhere on the property.
> 
> the bold is most likely the ideal pressure for that nozzle.
Click to expand...

+1 I was going to say the same thing...


----------



## jrubb42

Sounds good. They are cheaper than I was expecting.


----------



## gatorguy

Also calling your water supplier can tell you what pressure is going to youe property, I'd imagine your system tees off the mainline on it's way to the house?


----------



## jrubb42

gatorguy said:


> Also calling your water supplier can tell you what pressure is going to youe property, I'd imagine your system tees off the mainline on it's way to the house?


I can call and ask if they know. The irrigation system was installed before I moved into the home so I'm not exactly sure.


----------



## SumBeach35

Good read. Good luck on the upcoming reno and keep up the great work.

Regarding the FEature issue you had. Id start with hot water, i use a 5 gallon bucket filled with 3/4 of the water needed, add the FEature, mix frequently with paddle mixer on drill. Ill do this before i do anything else to give it as long as possible for mixing to aid in going into solution. Finally ill add whatever else i am spraying with it to the warm water and mix it up. Strain it with a disposable paint strainer in a funnel and then top off with remaining water and mix again. One last thing to rememver is cerain products with cause the iron to fall out of solution(high levels of humic acid, high pH solution to name two)

Hope this helps for the future.


----------



## jrubb42

@SumBeach35 thanks for the advice on feature! Glad you like the journal so far.

@Stuofsci02 @Vtx531 I do have PGP rotors. I'm going to be ordering all of the parts I need tonight. Question is, does every zone have it's own line that it's connected to? For example - zone 1 would have it's own 3/4 inch line, zone 2 would have it's own and so on?


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> @SumBeach35 thanks for the advice on feature! Glad you like the journal so far.
> 
> @Stuofsci02 @Vtx531 I do have PGP rotors. I'm going to be ordering all of the parts I need tonight. Question is, does every zone have it's own line that it's connected to? For example - zone 1 would have it's own 3/4 inch line, zone 2 would have it's own and so on?


Yes in general that is the case. There will be one common line that goes to you valve box or boxes and then a valve for each with its own line.


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @SumBeach35 thanks for the advice on feature! Glad you like the journal so far.
> 
> @Stuofsci02 @Vtx531 I do have PGP rotors. I'm going to be ordering all of the parts I need tonight. Question is, does every zone have it's own line that it's connected to? For example - zone 1 would have it's own 3/4 inch line, zone 2 would have it's own and so on?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes in general that is the case. There will be one common line that goes to you valve box or boxes and then a valve for each with its own line.
Click to expand...

Thanks man. Just ordered everything I need (hopefully). What a p.i.t.a. Had to order from 3 different sites but I think I got everything. My plan is to put in three new heads on 2 different zones. Also ordered double of everything that I need for each zone line because I don't know what size they used. Hopefully either 3/4 or 1 inch...Or I'm in trouble :lol:

I would get out there, dig and look, but I still need to call and have them mark for any potential lines or wires in the yard.. Plan is to do the install next week and it was hard enough to get shipping here in time for that. First round of gly goes down at the end of this week. Seed shows up Wednesday.

Definitely no turning back now....scary stuff.


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @SumBeach35 thanks for the advice on feature! Glad you like the journal so far.
> 
> @Stuofsci02 @Vtx531 I do have PGP rotors. I'm going to be ordering all of the parts I need tonight. Question is, does every zone have it's own line that it's connected to? For example - zone 1 would have it's own 3/4 inch line, zone 2 would have it's own and so on?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes in general that is the case. There will be one common line that goes to you valve box or boxes and then a valve for each with its own line.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks man. Just ordered everything I need (hopefully). What a p.i.t.a. Had to order from 3 different sites but I think I got everything. My plan is to put in three new heads on 2 different zones. Also ordered double of everything that I need for each zone line because I don't know what size they used. Hopefully either 3/4 or 1 inch...Or I'm in trouble :lol:
> 
> I would get out there, dig and look, but I still need to call and have them mark for any potential lines or wires in the yard.. Plan is to do the install next week and it was hard enough to get shipping here in time for that. First round of gly goes down at the end of this week. Seed shows up Wednesday.
> 
> Definitely no turning back now....scary stuff.
Click to expand...

There is work to do for sure, but it is only grass. Take your time and it will go fine! It is 95% prep and then making sure to keep it wet.


----------



## jrubb42

Got a cut in today with........

The manual reel.

Because the GM has been acting up as of late. It's been chugging even with the choke completely on. Went in and cleaned the carb a little bit and after I was done, on the very first pull to start it, the pull string snapped. That will be a project for next week!

Now on the fence (more leaning towards no) on the renovation because it didn't hit me til a couple of days ago that I put down 2 apps of prodiamine in the spring. Fun times. I have 90% of the material I needed for the renovation ordered already including seed...with the help of all the members here, I'm pretty positive I could've still had a successful reno. But time constraints with work and kids wouldve been too much..Might just do a small section of the yard to see how much different the new seed will be compared to what I have.

I know a lot of ppl would kill to have the grass I currently have, but I'm now in the mind frame of getting a tier 2.5 lawn at least..

I have a few projects I can tackle this fall including removing the stump in my yard, adding irrigation heads to the areas that I get localized dry spots, and just getting my irrigation where it needs to be in general. Curious to how my current short grass will like a beefed up fall nitrogen blitz...

This dude is killing me with his piss spots!


----------



## Babameca

So I have to cancel my popcorn machine order too??? 
Great pics!


----------



## jrubb42

Babameca said:


> So I have to cancel my popcorn machine order too???
> Great pics!


Trust me...I'm more disappointed than you are. The main part of my yard is actually looking great (other than all of the spray paint for showing gas lines and wires). Other half. Not so much.. Save the popcorn machine for next year. It's definitely happening


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 That's actually a very smart decision!
Sucess in renovation relies mainly on resources, well, after mother nature.
Keep always in mind (if budget is not extremly tight) you can 'buy' hands. I have few friends living close, so for my reno, I 'hired' a landscaper (3 guys) managing them thru the day.
You have a climate close to mine, so this will be a huge sucess, whenever you decide you are ready.


----------



## Stuofsci02

@jrubb42 
Have you thought of overseeding an elite PRG on the parts you are not doing a test plot. That would be pretty cheap and give you a thick lush low mow for the fall and next summer before you do your reno...


----------



## jrubb42

Babameca said:


> @jrubb42 That's actually a very smart decision!
> Sucess in renovation relies mainly on resources, well, after mother nature.
> Keep always in mind (if budget is not extremly tight) you can 'buy' hands. I have few friends living close, so for my reno, I 'hired' a landscaper (3 guys) managing them thru the day.
> You have a climate close to mine, so this will be a huge sucess, whenever you decide you are ready.


Thanks for the confidence. I had one buddy ready to tackle the leveling with me, but now that I have more time to put together a game plan, I'll definitely bring a couple more on deck for the leveling part and seed day. Bummed I'm stuck with this for another year. I can see so many inconsistencies in grass cultivars throughout my yard. May be considering a monostand depending on how the test plots turn out and selling the seed I currently have. We'll see what happens.


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> @jrubb42
> Have you thought of overseeding an elite PRG on the parts you are not doing a test plot. That would be pretty cheap and give you a thick lush low mow for the fall and next summer before you do your reno...


I'd be running into the same problem that made me call off the reno in the first place..damn spring pre-emergent. If I only knew! Otherwise I'd love to experiment with that.


----------



## g-man

@jrubb42 in the label for prodiamine, they have guidance for prg overseed on Bermuda. I think it is safe to overseed prg 8 weeks after prodiamine application.


----------



## jrubb42

g-man said:


> @jrubb42 in the label for prodiamine, they have guidance for prg overseed on Bermuda. I think it is safe to overseed prg 8 weeks after prodiamine application.


Did not know this. I'll be looking into this further.. Never wanted to deal with the seed stalks but might as well have some bad *** stripes in the mean time if I'm killing it in a year anyway.


----------



## jrubb42

@Stuofsci02 any recommendations for elite org cultivars? I looked at the prodiamine label and it says you can overseed in Bermuda Grass for some states in 6-8 weeks, other states 8-10 weeks. I don't really know what that means for us cool season folks.


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> @Stuofsci02 any recommendations for elite org cultivars? I looked at the prodiamine label and it says you can overseed in Bermuda Grass for some states in 6-8 weeks, other states 8-10 weeks. I don't really know what that means for us cool season folks.


If you go with self repairing/spreading, I would look at Barenbrug prg or CSI. For just regular elite I would look at grand slam, caddy shack 2 and top gun 2.


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Stuofsci02 any recommendations for elite org cultivars? I looked at the prodiamine label and it says you can overseed in Bermuda Grass for some states in 6-8 weeks, other states 8-10 weeks. I don't really know what that means for us cool season folks.
> 
> 
> 
> If you go with self repairing/spreading, I would look at Barenbrug prg or CSI. For just regular elite I would look at grand slam, caddy shack 2 and top gun 2.
Click to expand...

Make this easy for me since I know nothing about PRG and don't really have the ambition to do the research (after a full year of research for everything else lawn care).. if you had one year to put a PRG cultivar in your yard, what would you choose? Also, any input on the prodiamine angle with PRG overseed? Should I be fine?


----------



## jrubb42

Fixed the pull cord on the GM and on the very first pull it started up and sounded amazing. Honestly the best it has ever ran since I've owned it. Cleaning the carb did wonders.

Had the day off so I decided to do a cut of doubles and singles. Was too lazy to walk across the yard and get a pic after I was done but it's looking pretty damn good for mid summer at 7/8ths. Especially with temps in the 90s since forever it seems like.


----------



## rob13psu

Yard is looking great.

I overseeded back in 2018 with Pangea PRG and it looked great. I believe some others have used it in the past. I know others have used Chapion GQ.


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Stuofsci02 any recommendations for elite org cultivars? I looked at the prodiamine label and it says you can overseed in Bermuda Grass for some states in 6-8 weeks, other states 8-10 weeks. I don't really know what that means for us cool season folks.
> 
> 
> 
> If you go with self repairing/spreading, I would look at Barenbrug prg or CSI. For just regular elite I would look at grand slam, caddy shack 2 and top gun 2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Make this easy for me since I know nothing about PRG and don't really have the ambition to do the research (after a full year of research for everything else lawn care).. if you had one year to put a PRG cultivar in your yard, what would you choose? Also, any input on the prodiamine angle with PRG overseed? Should I be fine?
Click to expand...

Where did you get your kbg from?


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you go with self repairing/spreading, I would look at Barenbrug prg or CSI. For just regular elite I would look at grand slam, caddy shack 2 and top gun 2.
> 
> 
> 
> Make this easy for me since I know nothing about PRG and don't really have the ambition to do the research (after a full year of research for everything else lawn care).. if you had one year to put a PRG cultivar in your yard, what would you choose? Also, any input on the prodiamine angle with PRG overseed? Should I be fine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did you get your kbg from?
Click to expand...

That's part of the issue of why I want to renovate. I have no idea what the KBG is that I have. I'm guessing sod from 2002-2004. It's basically impossible to repair areas that are going to need to be repaired moving forward. If you're asking about the KBG seed that I currently bought for my renovation.. thats from SSS.


----------



## jrubb42

rob13psu said:


> Yard is looking great.
> 
> I overseeded back in 2018 with Pangea PRG and it looked great. I believe some others have used it in the past. I know others have used Chapion GQ.


Thanks Rob! How were the stripes with Pangea?


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Make this easy for me since I know nothing about PRG and don't really have the ambition to do the research (after a full year of research for everything else lawn care).. if you had one year to put a PRG cultivar in your yard, what would you choose? Also, any input on the prodiamine angle with PRG overseed? Should I be fine?
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get your kbg from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's part of the issue of why I want to renovate. I have no idea what the KBG is that I have. I'm guessing sod from 2002-2004. It's basically impossible to repair areas that are going to need to be repaired moving forward. If you're asking about the KBG seed that I currently bought for my renovation.. thats from SSS.
Click to expand...

Yes your renovation seed. Then go with the SS9000 mix from seed superstore.


----------



## rob13psu

jrubb42 said:


> rob13psu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yard is looking great.
> 
> I overseeded back in 2018 with Pangea PRG and it looked great. I believe some others have used it in the past. I know others have used Chapion GQ.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Rob! How were the stripes with Pangea?
Click to expand...

They were awesome. And it germinates/grows so fast it will make your lawn pop in 2 weeks.

I did lose some of it to winter kill, however.


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get your kbg from?
> 
> 
> 
> That's part of the issue of why I want to renovate. I have no idea what the KBG is that I have. I'm guessing sod from 2002-2004. It's basically impossible to repair areas that are going to need to be repaired moving forward. If you're asking about the KBG seed that I currently bought for my renovation.. thats from SSS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes your renovation seed. Then go with the SS9000 mix from seed superstore.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I'm not going to be matching that seed with any of the renovation seed and I'm not married to SSS (especially with how expensive they are). So a different brand or store wouldn't offend me.


----------



## jrubb42

rob13psu said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rob13psu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yard is looking great.
> 
> I overseeded back in 2018 with Pangea PRG and it looked great. I believe some others have used it in the past. I know others have used Chapion GQ.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Rob! How were the stripes with Pangea?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were awesome. And it germinates/grows so fast it will make your lawn pop in 2 weeks.
> 
> I did lose some of it to winter kill, however.
Click to expand...

Definitely not worried about losing any because that's expected with me living in MN. I already know that's gonna happen. On top of that killing it all in a year from now. Short term results are what I'll be after!


----------



## gatorguy

Do you have any certified seed suppliers close by? If so just see what they carry and give it a shot so your not spending a bunch of money of shipping for something your going to kill in a year.


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 Do you realize, you're hanging with the Canucks most of the time...? lol


----------



## Stuofsci02

Babameca said:


> @jrubb42 Do you realize, you're hanging with the Canucks most of the time...? lol


Minnesota is basically Canada...


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jrubb42 Do you realize, you're hanging with the Canucks most of the time...? lol
> 
> 
> 
> Minnesota is basically Canada...
Click to expand...

@Babameca This is pretty much true. Probably why I get along with you guys easy. And I'm ready to move to Canada at this point. Seriously. Lol.


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 I feel ya... As for lawn addicts, you are way less restricted and have greater choice of goods.
I travelled to Mankato every other week for 2 years supporting a company there. Made some good friends.


----------



## jrubb42

Double mowed today. Dripping sweat the whole time.

Lawn looks pretty good for mid July compared to all of the yards around me.

Took a shot at dusk and a pic while I was hand watering a LDS

The auto-white balance looks weird on the first couple of pics.


----------



## Babameca

Looks tight!
Watch those browning spots (not the dog ones), pull, examine blades, look at soil. All disasters happen now: fungus, grubs. Low mowed grass is more fragile to an extent. I take my 1st espresso walking the yard (the 2nd one is reserved for the news online). Same happens at the evening. Vodka/sprite walk :lol:


----------



## jrubb42

Put down Milo at bag rate. Also put down 1 lb per k of SOP. Filled in the urine burn spots with plugs. Pre-emergent is definitely doing it's job (you can see the property line from the neighbors in the second pic)

Got two more compliments from random people today. Feels good, especially when the wife is around to hear them!


----------



## MarshalOfFire

That property line picture is about the best endorsement for pre-m i have seen!

Lawn looks great!


----------



## Stuofsci02

@jrubb42 Lookin slick!!! Just wait until mid to late August when we can pound the N to these bad boys..... BTW I got a good source near me for elite prg and 55 lbs is about $100 US... At 7 lbs per k it will be good for 8,000 sqft.


----------



## jrubb42

@MarshalOfFire yeah it's pretty ridiculous. My neighbors yard is basically all crabgrass at this point. I literally did not get one single blade of crabgrass in my lawn and I had it last year. Pretty amazing results.

@Stuofsci02 Just got off the phone with a dealer that sells elite cultivars here locally. Found this seed: https://www.twincityseed.com/uploads/7/1/1/5/71150701/prg_silver_dollar_techsheet.pdf

$82.50 for a 50lb bag. It's pretty tempting. May do it just to experiment since I'm killing it all next year anyway, but on the other end it might be a waste of money. Ha.


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> @MarshalOfFire yeah it's pretty ridiculous. My neighbors yard is basically all crabgrass at this point. I literally did not get one single blade of crabgrass in my lawn and I had it last year. Pretty amazing results.
> 
> @Stuofsci02 Just got off the phone with a dealer that sells elite cultivars here locally. Found this seed: https://www.twincityseed.com/uploads/7/1/1/5/71150701/prg_silver_dollar_techsheet.pdf
> 
> $82.50 for a 50lb bag. It's pretty tempting. May do it just to experiment since I'm killing it all next year anyway, but on the other end it might be a waste of money. Ha.


For $82 I don't think you are wasting money. You will gain experience and learn and make it look better at the same time, if only for a year.


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @MarshalOfFire yeah it's pretty ridiculous. My neighbors yard is basically all crabgrass at this point. I literally did not get one single blade of crabgrass in my lawn and I had it last year. Pretty amazing results.
> 
> @Stuofsci02 Just got off the phone with a dealer that sells elite cultivars here locally. Found this seed: https://www.twincityseed.com/uploads/7/1/1/5/71150701/prg_silver_dollar_techsheet.pdf
> 
> $82.50 for a 50lb bag. It's pretty tempting. May do it just to experiment since I'm killing it all next year anyway, but on the other end it might be a waste of money. Ha.
> 
> 
> 
> For $82 I don't think you are wasting money. You will gain experience and learn and make it look better at the same time, if only for a year.
Click to expand...

Always the voice of reason lol. Think I would be fine with just dethatching and maybe scarifying? Then rolling it in with the Greensmaster? Really don't feel like aerating this year if I can avoid it. Soil doesn't really need it.

Also are you dropping 7lbs per k? That seems like a lot for an overseed. That's the low rate of seeding on a new lawn. Maybe you know something I don't. Thats usually the case. Ha


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 Go for the sissy grass. It looks amazing...in the 1st year :lol: It should be a breeze to get it going vs KBG.


----------



## jrubb42

Babameca said:


> @jrubb42 Go for the sissy grass. It looks amazing...in the 1st year :lol: It should be a breeze to get it going vs KBG.


Haha. They only thing I'd really worry about is the seed stalks. I get enough of them as it is with KBG. It's hard to say no when it germinates so damn quick though!

I thought the rest of this year was going to be a breeze after not having to do the reno. Now more and more stuff is piling up with things to do! I'm glyphosating the test plot this week. Again, wife thinks I'm a nut case lol.


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @MarshalOfFire yeah it's pretty ridiculous. My neighbors yard is basically all crabgrass at this point. I literally did not get one single blade of crabgrass in my lawn and I had it last year. Pretty amazing results.
> 
> @Stuofsci02 Just got off the phone with a dealer that sells elite cultivars here locally. Found this seed: https://www.twincityseed.com/uploads/7/1/1/5/71150701/prg_silver_dollar_techsheet.pdf
> 
> $82.50 for a 50lb bag. It's pretty tempting. May do it just to experiment since I'm killing it all next year anyway, but on the other end it might be a waste of money. Ha.
> 
> 
> 
> For $82 I don't think you are wasting money. You will gain experience and learn and make it look better at the same time, if only for a year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Always the voice of reason lol. Think I would be fine with just dethatching and maybe scarifying? Then rolling it in with the Greensmaster? Really don't feel like aerating this year if I can avoid it. Soil doesn't really need it.
> 
> Also are you dropping 7lbs per k? That seems like a lot for an overseed. That's the low rate of seeding on a new lawn. Maybe you know something I don't. Thats usually the case. Ha
Click to expand...

I would just take a 50lb bag and spread it evenly over the area you want. If it is 5lb/k or 7lb/k I don't think it will matter. A couple of weeks later you should be laying down some sick stripes....


----------



## Stuofsci02

Babameca said:


> @jrubb42 Go for the sissy grass. It looks amazing...in the 1st year :lol: It should be a breeze to get it going vs KBG.


You don't like it after year one?


----------



## jrubb42

Put down 6oz/k of Humic12 and 3oz/k of RGS this morning.

Got a cut in this afternoon. I really need to put down more PGR because the wife is getting sick of me cutting every other day. Supposed to rain all day tomorrow so maybe Thursday..

My side yard is striping the best it has all year. Don't know if the milorganite is already kicking in or what the deal is. Overall, yard is looking pretty healthy. Will also put down fungicide with the PGR


----------



## jrubb42

@Babameca by the way... @Stuofsci02 was right. I'll be going lower with my HOC. I'm already itching to go to 3/4. I think I'll be shooting for 5/8 by the end of the year :lol:


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> @Babameca by the way... @Stuofsci02 was right. I'll be going lower with my HOC. I'm already itching to go to 3/4. I think I'll be shooting for 5/8 by the end of the year :lol:


Yes! There's a first time for everything...


----------



## Stuofsci02

@jrubb42 ... looking really good. I think you are doing a fantastic job. And I definitely like the day time pics.... none of these early morning or sunset glamour shots....


----------



## Slingblade_847

@jrubb42 amazing neighbor domination line.


----------



## Babameca

Stuofsci02 said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jrubb42 Go for the sissy grass. It looks amazing...in the 1st year :lol: It should be a breeze to get it going vs KBG.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't like it after year one?
Click to expand...

In a mix? Oh, absolutly! Pisses me off with its seadheads and stocks, but it is ok..


----------



## Stuofsci02

Babameca said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jrubb42 Go for the sissy grass. It looks amazing...in the 1st year :lol: It should be a breeze to get it going vs KBG.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't like it after year one?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In a mix? Oh, absolutly! Pisses me off with its seadheads and stocks, but it is ok..
Click to expand...

Yeah, but seed heads for a few weeks... Stripes forever..


----------



## jrubb42

@Stuofsci02 thanks man! Appreciate the kind words. Been working my butt off to get it here. I think I'm deciding to not add the irrigation heads until next year when I reno. I can't push myself to tear apart the yard to put in new heads when I'm going to be killing the lawn next year. Guess I'm going to be hand watering the middle of my yard a lot for the next year. Ugh.

@Slingblade_847 thanks. Wish I could get my grass darker but it is what it is at this point. Also, there's a terrible dormant area you can see on the property line that one of my irrigation heads misses. I have to move that head back further.


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> @Stuofsci02 thanks man! Appreciate the kind words. Been working my butt off to get it here. I think I'm deciding to not add the irrigation heads until next year when I reno. I can't push myself to tear apart the yard to put in new heads when I'm going to be killing the lawn next year. Guess I'm going to be hand watering the middle of my yard a lot for the next year. Ugh.
> 
> @Slingblade_847 thanks. Wish I could get my grass darker but it is what it is at this point. Also, there's a terrible dormant area you can see on the property line that one of my irrigation heads misses. I have to move that head back further.


Yeah.. That makes sense... Now you just need to get your @$$ out there and hand water that dormant area along the property line :lol: . That just won't do..... I take a 5 gallon homer pail and fill it with water and go to all the spots my irrigation misses and I dump that 5 gal pail to soak the area. I have a few spots that will go dormant and it will ruin my domination line... I takes me 15 min every other day, but keeps the entire lawn consistent. This is my trick along the road to not get any color change etc. from the road heat. Neighbors probably wonder what I am doing, but I got over that long ago....


----------



## Babameca

W@Stuofsci02 You bring me closer and closer to a no no for an inground irrigation. I do look weird fine tunning my sprinklers placements 1-2 times a year, but every other day...?
It is also faster to winterize what I have. Jesss, I wished that irrigation so hard...


----------



## jrubb42

@Babameca I moved the test plot to the backyard. Didn't want mow around it and have it be an eyesore for a month. Don't judge my neglected back yard with heat stress everywhere. I've been focused on getting the front to where I want it :lol:

There will be 4 test plots. They will be 6ft x 4ft. For those that don't know, these will be the cultivars in each plot:

1. Bluebank
2. Mazama
3. Everest
4. 40% Mazama 30% Bluebank 30% Bewitched

A negative about being in the back is that I have to cut my current grass low next to the plot so I can compare it, which is going to take some work to get it there.

I put the first round of gly on it tonight. Here are some photos.







The front yard is looking pretty damn good for being completely beat up by heat and no rain. This summer has been extremely hot and dry for us.


----------



## rob13psu

Still looking great. Are you going to get hit with this massive derecho pushing through tonight? Some pretty vicious winds for sure.


----------



## ABC123

Hopefully tomorrow should be the last of the heatwave. Looking forward to the test


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 Awesome man. Some shade, so will see. I am so excited to see germination times, blade texture and probably next year, mature color. Front looks decent. Here, it eased on us. 2/3'' 4 days ago, 1'' this morning (with free N from the thunders) and another 1'' on the forecast for in 2-3 days. Fungus is now the big issue (as you have probably seen in my journal)


----------



## jrubb42

@Babameca Forgot to mention that spot gets sun from sunrise until 4:30pm. So around 75/80% sun. Also, I have been seeing your fungus issues. Had to be a love/hate relationship with all the rain you got.

@rob13psu it's heading right at us. Hopefully it loses a bit of it's strength before it gets to us. It's supposed to hit is at around 3am so we will see.

@ABC123 yes it looks like we'll get a little break but the 10 day has 90+ heat again towards the end of the forecast.. who knows though. They've been wrong almost all year it seems like...with rain at least


----------



## jrubb42

Put down 6ml/k of T-Nex along with 0.1 lb/N/K. I need to get down my fungicide app I've been putting off. We've had 3+ inches of rain in the last few days.

Damn dog pissed right next to the plugs I just put down and made another huge burn spot.



It's been 4 days since I put down gly on the test plot and it is not dying as quick as I thought it would. I think I got a bad batch of gly from last year. I didn't see much for results when I used it last year either. I purchased a new bottle and will be applying another application soon.


----------



## SpeedNess

@jrubb42 , man its been a while since I first looked at your journal. It is looking amazing. Looking forward to seeing it at 0.75" HOC. Keep it up!


----------



## Stuofsci02

Looks good... My 4 month old Golden Retriever always looks like he is ready to have a whizzzz in the front....


----------



## jrubb42

Thanks guys. @Stuofsci02 I get mad when I see the burn marks but get over it pretty quick. I trained him to pee outside so that's what he does. I usually spray the spots with a hose if I see him going but he sneaks off every once in awhile.

I'm getting the itch to bring down the HOC. Pretty sad that I think it looks "long" at 7/8ths.

Yesterday two people stopped and asked what I was doing to make the yard look so damn good. The one guy had a twenty minute conversation with me. Still crazy the amount of compliments I've been getting from the neighborhood.


----------



## jrubb42

Side part of the lawn is finally looking as good as the main part. Maybe better!


----------



## Stuofsci02

Love it.......


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 Oh man! That side part. So jealous seeing a fungus free manicured piece of green.


----------



## jrubb42

I went down to .75 today and man...I am happy. It looks SOOO much better. The highs are supposed to be in the mid 80's to low 80's for the next ten days and the lawn in going to love life I feel like. I wanted to put the drone up at dusk but the shadows from the trees and houses really mess with things. These are all photos from today starting at around 2pm til Dusk...







Thought I got a bad batch of Glypho.. Ha! Guess I was wrong there. Apparently takes a good 7/8 days to kick in.. Put down another coat today at 3oz per 0.5 gallons. Everything should be dead in 4 days.



I asked my lil man if the grass looked good and this was his reaction.. he's always trying to help with anything in the yard...









I ran outta battery in the drone cuz the kid wanted me to play with it all night. I'm going to put it back in the air when the sun is down in the next few nights...


----------



## jrubb42

These were supposed to be on the post also... here are the rest..


----------



## jrubb42

These didn't upload for some reason..Shadows really mess with the exposure of everything....


----------



## Babameca

Test plot is coming along! Yes, it takes time, which allows it kill deep. Rest looks awesome!


----------



## leifcat1

Looking great! How did the small dose of PGR work out for you? Looks like it didn't stress the turf at all. Last week, I decided to experiment with T-Nex after a three year absence. (My first experience at full rate is something I will never forget) I sprayed one of my hell strips that was heavily seeded with Perennial Rye back in June. I must say that a week later, I am impressed with the results. I only had a moderate "bronzing" effect on the PRG.

I, like you, have a cooler stretch of weather coming up next week. Now you're making me want to drop my height down to .75. I'm currently at 1.25, so I don't know if I'll completely make it down to .75


----------



## jrubb42

@Babameca thanks man! I'm hoping to get seed down sooner than later in the rest plot with the temps cooling down.

@leifcat1 to be honest the grass has taken the T-Nex perfectly. No browning whatsoever. My next app is due next week already and I'm planning on mixing a higher rate. Maybe 8 or 9 ml/k. I'm going to keep upping it and see how far I can push it.

As for the lower height of cut, I think it looks so much cleaner. At 7/8ths, after one day of cutting it looked "long" to me. I also noticed there's not as many stragglers when cutting this low. I don't think I'll be going back up anytime soon!


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 Check you clippings rate. Over regulating is somehow dangerous. Also app time is crucial foe the overlapping effect. You can have the same or even greater suppression by going at 5 ml weekly vs 8 at 2 weeks at same weather conditions. geernkeepersapp is great for comparing the stacking. You can simply run scenarios and compare. IME the app is 2-3 days behind of what I see on the field, by using the default GDD. May adjust it down to represent my situation.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Now 5/8th doesn't seem so crazy. Wait till August...


----------



## jrubb42

Ya know one of those ideas that you think is genius so you can save a buck? Here's one of them...

Aerating with a plugger on ONLY 100 sq ft.

Do not recommend. 0/5 stars. Ha!

Do you think this is enough to break a pre-m barrier? Or should the holes be closer together? They're about 1 inch apart. 2 inches in some spots


----------



## Babameca

Holy crap! :lol:


----------



## jrubb42

And done.



I want to get down seed ASAP with these temps.


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 Very similar weather here, but for my 2 projects it is weeds cleanup time... I drop PRG in 1 and 2 weeks respectively...


----------



## jrubb42

Babameca said:


> @jrubb42 Very similar weather here, but for my 2 projects it is weeds cleanup time... I drop PRG in 1 and 2 weeks respectively...


I thought you were sick of PRG stalks? You can get away with 1 or 2 weeks with how fast PRG germinates. What's your other project? I'm not that worried about weeds because I'm not bringing in any topsoil. Plus it's only 100 sq ft of "Reno". I rather have early germination if possible.


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 those are not in my yard. One for a friend (1000 sqf) starting almost from scratch and the other is a neighbour with failed reno from last year. Both not very consistent in their lawn practices, so PRG establishment will make things easier (and possible for overseeding).


----------



## jrubb42

Babameca said:


> @jrubb42 those are not in my yard. One for a friend (1000 sqf) starting almost from scratch and the other is a neighbour with failed reno from last year. Both not very consistent in their lawn practices, so PRG establishment will make things easier (and possible for overseeding).


Ok.. this makes way more sense for your game plan now.


----------



## jrubb42

Put down .2 lbs of N and 8 ml of T-Nex per k. Front yard is getting away from me a little bit. Need to definitely get a mow in. Also I've realized I have 3 or 4 areas of creeping bentgrass is my yard, which kind of sucks. I'm trying to decide if I want to kill it now, or just wait until next year and do a full reno.

Also put down the seed for the test plot in the backyard. That was way more work than I thought it was going to be, but it's done. Now we water and play the waiting game. I need to start bringing down the HOC of the grass surrounding it.


----------



## Babameca

Here it goes... I have seed down on Sat. I guess with PRG my buddy will be mowing right when you will be cheering your first baby grass &#129315;


----------



## jrubb42

Babameca said:


> Here it goes... I have seed down on Sat. I guess with PRG my buddy will be mowing right when you will be cheering your first baby grass 🤣


Haha. Gotta love bluegrass.


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 I think it will be a great learning experience for your next year project, but also for all of us!


----------



## jrubb42

@Babameca for sure will be. I hand seeded everything because the area was so small. I put down a rate of 2.5 lbs/k (recommendation on the label was 2lbs/k) It seemed like I barely put down any seed. So we'll see what happens with that.

Here's my math to make sure I did it right. Each section is 6x4. Which by my calculations would 0.96oz of seed per section at that rate. I just rounded up to 1 oz.


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 Your math is right, but you have to get rid of the Imperial system! It is SO painful!
g, kg, ton= 1, 1 000, 1 000 000
mm, m, km=1, 1 000, 1 000 000
Geez :lol:


----------



## jrubb42

Babameca said:


> @jrubb42 Your math is right, but you have to get rid of the Imperial system! It is SO painful!
> g, kg, ton= 1, 1 000, 1 000 000
> mm, m, km=1, 1 000, 1 000 000
> Geez :lol:


I know man. I'm constantly using Google for conversions. It's a PITA. You guys got it easy!


----------



## jrubb42

Test plot update. Day 6: We have germination.

All 4 varieties have germination with Mazama having the most. Everest with the least. Had to really look hard to find any in the Everest but there's a few in there.

Also have had storms the past two days with some areas of washout. Not sure how bad they are. Will be a good test to see how those areas will be affected.


----------



## jrubb42

Here are the varieties of each plot so everyone knows going forward.


----------



## jrubb42

Also got a mow in today


----------



## Babameca

Looks really good. When do you start the blitz...


----------



## jrubb42

@Babameca Thanks. I could probably get away with starting it in a few days but I go on a 10 day vacation on the 14th. The neighbor kid is going to cut with the manual reel every three days. I'll start when I get back. Still trying to decide if I want to kill the bentgrass this year or let it stick around and just nuke the whole yard next summer. There's a couple of really bad areas.


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 Where did you go boy? How's the reno doing.


----------



## jrubb42

@Babameca I've been on vacation for the last couple of weeks. Going to give an update for the test plot tonight after I'm done with work! Hope all is well!


----------



## jrubb42

We're at 15 DAG and I must admit, I'm kind of disappointed in the test plot. I came home from vacation thinking that I was going to see a pretty thick plot and that's not the case. I'm really glad I did not do a full renovation on my yard at this point.

We've had a few storms here the last couple of weeks and on top of that, the pre-emergent is probably not doing me any favors.

Bluebank is coming in the thickest, with the mix right behind it. Then Mazama and lastly Everest. Everest is pretty thin compared to the others and I'm not exactly sure why. It doesn't seem to be too washed out compared to the rest.

With that being said, Everest is by far the darkest right now of the 4 varieties. Mazama the second darkest and the mix and Bluebank being the lightest.

@Babameca what do you think I should do? Add more seed now? What a week and add more? Or just hit it all hard with nitrogen once it matures a bit and let it spread? There seems to be enough there to let it grow itself it, just might have a few bare spots.

I feel like it may be coming out of the pout stage pretty quick by the growth I've seen in the last 2 days.


----------



## g-man

It is not bad. That will fill in.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

I agree, that's not bad. If your now at 15 DAG I'd start feeding. Then it will really fill in more. KBG is a waiting game.


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 If it was me, I would have pout down more seed, but not at this point. You are 20+ days after seed down. Young KBG won't spread aggressively, but it will definitely get denser by the tillering.


----------



## jrubb42

Thanks fellas. I'm going to start feeding it and see what it does by itself. It will be another "test" I guess. Ha.

@Babameca I'm excited to see Everest vs Mazama side to side. I placed them next to each other on purpose to see how they compare. I know you mentioned something, somewhere, about not understanding why Mazama is getting so much hype. I wish the Everest germinated a little better at this point. It is much noticably darker than everything else. I know it's way early, just wasn't expecting that.


----------



## Stuofsci02

That looks very similar to my playground reno last year at about the same time frame. I might have had a bit more coverage but it was due to the 25% PRG in my mix. After another 30 days it was all filled it.. I think you are in good shape.. Just apply N like crazy..


----------



## bernstem

Leave that to fill in. It will give you a feel for how fast the different types spread if there are bare areas.


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 There is no perfect grass type nor cultivar. Even more considering the media the climate etc etc. Long after I seeded, I looked at the NTEP and was surprised to see Everest to score very, very high, even with the shadow.
I simply think the hype is due to very shadowy areas and that Mazama marginally scores the highest. I am not sure any lawn hobist will notice a difference in performance (any performance) between the top seeded and the top 5 in a given category.
In my Reno I had a 'lazy' MF that only started pulling up 3 weeks in (in my journal). I am almost convinced now it was Everest.
The second drawback maybe, it does not like (it tolerates) HOC below 1''. The all time classic Award is much better at 1/2-1''
.....thus I went with a MIX! :lol:


----------



## Zcape35

I just read through this whole Journal, it was fun to follow along! Your yard is beautiful as well.


----------



## jrubb42

@bernstem @Stuofsci02, thanks guys. After hearing from everyone I'm sure it's going to turn out fine. I've been keeping an eye out on everyone else's Reno's and they seem so much denser than what I have going on. That's why I seemed so concerned.

@Babameca I've read multiple times that you cannot go wrong with any elite cultivar and ppl read too much into the NTEP scores. But as you'd probably understand better than anyone, if there's data, we're going to dissect it and analyze it until we're proven wrong with our own experience.

I'm hoping Everest is a late bloomer and thickens up with the rest of the group. I'm loving the color it has right now.

@Zcape35 thanks for reading! I probably sounded like I was bi-polar/psycho thinking back. Lol. There were a lot of highs and lows going through everything this year. I appreciate the compliment though! I'm decently happy where it's at right now. Hopefully it improves from this point going forward!


----------



## badtlc

jrubb42 said:


> Bluebank is coming in the thickest, with the mix right behind it. Then Mazama and lastly Everest. Everest is pretty thin compared to the others and I'm not exactly sure why. It doesn't seem to be too washed out compared to the rest.


Everest is technically a dwarf cultivar. It grows slower than non-dwarf cultivars. Also, I can't find it now but I thought I found the grower data sheet indicating Everest is a 21-28 day germination meaning it will be in the slowest group of all KBG cultivars.


----------



## jrubb42

badtlc said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bluebank is coming in the thickest, with the mix right behind it. Then Mazama and lastly Everest. Everest is pretty thin compared to the others and I'm not exactly sure why. It doesn't seem to be too washed out compared to the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> Everest is technically a dwarf cultivar. It grows slower than non-dwarf cultivars. Also, I can't find it now but I thought I found the grower data sheet indicating Everest is a 21-28 day germination meaning it will be in the slowest group of all KBG cultivars.
Click to expand...

Good to know. I did not realize that and will continue keeping it moist. I thought about backing off the water a bit this week but not anymore. Thank you for the heads up.


----------



## Stuofsci02

From last year.. Top is 60 days after seed down. Bottom is 24 days after seed down or about 18 DAG..


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> From last year.. Top is 60 days after seed down. Bottom is 24 days after seed down or about 18 DAG..


So here is today. 23 days since seed down. How much N did you give yours and how often? I tried looking in your journal but couldn't find it for some reason.

It is not very long or dense, but it's definitely tillering.


----------



## Stuofsci02

@jrubb42 ... Sorry I did not document this in my journal for some reason. I was using the 2019 reno thread. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10631&hilit=playground&start=80

Accoding to that thread germination was at day 4 and the thin picture above was day 21. So 17 DAG. My phone dates suggest it was at day 24, but close enough.


----------



## jrubb42

Update on the main lawn. It's looking so damn good. The photos don't do it justice. I had 3 ppl stop and compliment it today while doing some stuff in the garage. I still see all the imperfections but man, it's a sight to see up close.













@Babameca Everest woke up and started filling in today. It's looking close to the rest all of a sudden. I wanted to show a close up of Everest vs Mazama. The color is so much different in person. Everest is super dark right now. Hard to tell from the picture.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Looks super tight.... amazing when I look back to this journal from spring.. Such dismay to absolute triumph.... do you need to reno next year?

BTW what HOC?


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> Looks super tight.... amazing when I look back to this journal from spring.. Such dismay to absolute triumph.... do you need to reno next year?
> 
> BTW what HOC?


Thanks man. I really appreciate the kind words. If I'm being honest with myself.... probably not. It looks pretty damn amazing right now. But in the back of my head I know there's a ton of things that could be fixed while doing a Reno (sprinkler coverage, gravel next to driveway that failed the screwdriver test, a stump, leveling, etc.)

I'm always trying to challenge myself and now I'm thinking I want a monostand. Idk. I just can never be happy and settle I feel like. There's a bunch of super dark cultivars in my existing grass that stick out and I can just see small things that bug me. I'll take a photo and show you what I'm talking about.


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks super tight.... amazing when I look back to this journal from spring.. Such dismay to absolute triumph.... do you need to reno next year?
> 
> BTW what HOC?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks man. I really appreciate the kind words. If I'm being honest with myself.... probably not. It looks pretty damn amazing right now. But in the back of my head I know there's a ton of things that could be fixed while doing a Reno (sprinkler coverage, gravel next to driveway that failed the screwdriver test, a stump, leveling, etc.)
> 
> I'm always trying to challenge myself and now I'm thinking I want a monostand. Idk. I just can never be happy and settle I feel like. There's a bunch of super dark cultivars in my existing grass that stick out and I can just see small things that bug me. I'll take a photo and show you what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

I hear you! I am going to kill mine off at some point. Hopefully I don't regret it...


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks super tight.... amazing when I look back to this journal from spring.. Such dismay to absolute triumph.... do you need to reno next year?
> 
> BTW what HOC?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks man. I really appreciate the kind words. If I'm being honest with myself.... probably not. It looks pretty damn amazing right now. But in the back of my head I know there's a ton of things that could be fixed while doing a Reno (sprinkler coverage, gravel next to driveway that failed the screwdriver test, a stump, leveling, etc.)
> 
> I'm always trying to challenge myself and now I'm thinking I want a monostand. Idk. I just can never be happy and settle I feel like. There's a bunch of super dark cultivars in my existing grass that stick out and I can just see small things that bug me. I'll take a photo and show you what I'm talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hopefully I don't regret it...
Click to expand...

This^^^^ I feel this... So much. Hahah. My wife really did not want me to renovate this year..or ever at this point I feel like. We'll see what happens. I'll do what I want. Lol


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks man. I really appreciate the kind words. If I'm being honest with myself.... probably not. It looks pretty damn amazing right now. But in the back of my head I know there's a ton of things that could be fixed while doing a Reno (sprinkler coverage, gravel next to driveway that failed the screwdriver test, a stump, leveling, etc.)
> 
> I'm always trying to challenge myself and now I'm thinking I want a monostand. Idk. I just can never be happy and settle I feel like. There's a bunch of super dark cultivars in my existing grass that stick out and I can just see small things that bug me. I'll take a photo and show you what I'm talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully I don't regret it...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This^^^^ I feel this...My wife really did not want me to renovate this year..or ever at this point I feel like. We'll see what happens. I'll do what I want. Lol
Click to expand...

Yeah, but she probably didn't want you to get a reel mower, and probably didn't want you to cut it so short when it looked like crap in the spring.... probably doesn't understand that having perfect low cut grass is a huge challenge and the reward is standing out there looking at it....


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 That very short part of the year. I feel robbed :lol: It is like driving a motorcycle in Quebec. You pay insurance, plates etc for 12 months but you only have a few weekends, free, no rain.
it is worth it though, probably because of this.
Looks awesome man!
We enter the 6-7 weeks of glory period.
IMO, if you have few dark cultivars in mind, just go for a mix of those. If you have the will and time to put on it.
I am glad all this is behind and don't regret I don't have the darkest lawn in the world. In my town, I am already very, very suspicious. It is WAY too dark!


----------



## CTTurfDad

What a great journal, @jrubb42! Your yard looks awesome, your journey has been an impressive roller coaster ride, and your documentation of everything is entertaining and informative. Great stuff.


----------



## jrubb42

Babameca said:


> @jrubb42 That very short part of the year. I feel robbed :lol: It is like driving a motorcycle in Quebec. You pay insurance, plates etc for 12 months but you only have a few weekends, free, no rain.
> it is worth it though, probably because of this.
> Looks awesome man!
> We enter the 6-7 weeks of glory period.
> IMO, if you have few dark cultivars in mind, just go for a mix of those. If you have the will and time to put on it.
> I am glad all this is behind and don't regret I don't have the darkest lawn in the world. In my town, I am already very, very suspicious. It is WAY too dark!


Haha thank you man!! My temps have dropped to highs in the 70s for the next 10 days. About the hit it very hard with N and see what happens!

Your lawn compared to your neighbors is mind boggling. Looks pretty damn dark to me!


----------



## jrubb42

CTTurfDad said:


> What a great journal, @jrubb42! Your yard looks awesome, your journey has been an impressive roller coaster ride, and your documentation of everything is entertaining and informative. Great stuff.


I appreciate the kind words @CTTurfDad. It has definitely been a crazy rollercoaster ride. I probably sound bi-polar in my journal. Lol. A lot of defeats, hard work, and victories. I'm glad you enjoyed reading it. Hopefully next year is smoother since I have a much better idea of what I'm doing!


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> CTTurfDad said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a great journal, @jrubb42! Your yard looks awesome, your journey has been an impressive roller coaster ride, and your documentation of everything is entertaining and informative. Great stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully next year is smoother since I have a much better idea of what I'm doing!
Click to expand...

Haha.... Yeah right.... If that's the case your not trying hard enough :lol:


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CTTurfDad said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a great journal, @jrubb42! Your yard looks awesome, your journey has been an impressive roller coaster ride, and your documentation of everything is entertaining and informative. Great stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully next year is smoother since I have a much better idea of what I'm doing!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha.... Yeah right.... If that's the case your not trying hard enough :lol:
Click to expand...

:lol: I don't think effort will ever be a problem with me. The bug has bitten way too hard.


----------



## ksturfguy

Found this journal after you were nominated for lawn of the month. Looks great! Also your test plot will definitely start to take off soon. Coverage looks fairly normal for this stage.


----------



## jrubb42

ksturfguy said:


> Found this journal after you were nominated for lawn of the month. Looks great! Also your test plot will definitely start to take off soon. Coverage looks fairly normal for this stage.


Thanks! I appreciate it! I didn't add any seed so I'm just going to let it fill in on its own. I thought it was coming out of the pout stage earlier this week, but it has not. Not much to update other than the Everest getting more germination and starting to fill in better.


----------



## jrubb42

Test plot update: I scalped, dethatched, and scalped again on the areas around the test plot, preparing it to be cut low (it's like I've done this before 😂). I'm going to let it grow out a bit and heal and then I'll start cutting everything around 3/4.


----------



## jrubb42

Another day, another mow..


----------



## leifcat1

I vote for you for LOTM! I'm addicted to your journal! You've come so far this year. I'm sure your neighbors are "playa hatin"


----------



## Stuofsci02

@jrubb42

What is your HOC?


----------



## jrubb42

leifcat1 said:


> I vote for you for LOTM! I'm addicted to your journal! You've come so far this year. I'm sure your neighbors are "playa hatin"


Thanks man! I appreciate it! This year has definitely been a journey. Some quotes from my neighbors recently:

"Your grass looks like shit."

"I just lay in your grass when you're not home and contemplate about life."

"Stop making us look bad. For real."

😂😂

@Stuofsci02 I'm at 0.75. My next mow I'll be at .625 I believe. I'm starting my nitrogen blitz either tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## Justmatson

Hey @jrubb42 just catching up with your journal. Love it!
Great job with your lawn this year. Its making me jealous. That low cut looks amazing.

I wanted to cut low with my reno this year but just wasn't practical. Having a hard time finding a powered reel mower and I work away for 2 weeks at a time so I can't expect my wife to do it....
Ahhh.... maybe next year.... 🙁


----------



## jrubb42

Justmatson said:


> Hey @jrubb42 just catching up with your journal. Love it!
> Great job with your lawn this year. Its making me jealous. That low cut looks amazing.
> 
> I wanted to cut low with my reno this year but just wasn't practical. Having a hard time finding a powered reel mower and I work away for 2 weeks at a time so I can't expect my wife to do it....
> Ahhh.... maybe next year.... 🙁


Hey man! Thanks for checking it out. I appreciate the compliments! If you're going to be gone and are having trouble finding a powered reel, but still want to go low, I'd suggest finding a manual reel to use in the meantime. That way your grass will be used to be getting cut low and your wife shouldn't have any problem using it! It gives the same quality cut... just no stripes and you get some washboarding if you don't cut it two different ways.

When I was gone on a two week vacation, I had my neighbor kid mow with my manual reel while I was gone. No way I trusted him with the power reel.


----------



## Justmatson

jrubb42 said:


> Justmatson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey @jrubb42 just catching up with your journal. Love it!
> Great job with your lawn this year. Its making me jealous. That low cut looks amazing.
> 
> I wanted to cut low with my reno this year but just wasn't practical. Having a hard time finding a powered reel mower and I work away for 2 weeks at a time so I can't expect my wife to do it....
> Ahhh.... maybe next year.... 🙁
> 
> 
> 
> Hey man! Thanks for checking it out. I appreciate the compliments! If you're going to be gone and are having trouble finding a powered reel, but still want to go low, I'd suggest finding a manual reel to use in the meantime. That way your grass will be used to be getting cut low and your wife shouldn't have any problem using it! It gives the same quality cut... just no stripes and you get some washboarding if you don't cut it two different ways.
> 
> When I was gone on a two week vacation, I had my neighbor kid mow with my manual reel while I was gone. No way I trusted him with the power reel.
Click to expand...

When I started my reno I was using a manual reel mower and loved it! 
My wife would never use it, especially on 5000/k :roll:

I actually have a 42" ride on mower she uses. We have .5 acre so its a bit much for her when I'm gone and she works plus has our two kids to look after.

I'm going to reno another 6000/k next spring and get into using PGR's as @Babameca suggested to me. Then hopefully I can keep it low....


----------



## Slingblade_847

@jrubb42 my man! Congrats on LOTM. You sure got my vote. Exceptional journal, and one for the books. Also keep tracking the "test plot". So interested to see if the results will force someone to burn down a lawn of the month.


----------



## jrubb42

Slingblade_847 said:


> @jrubb42 my man! Congrats on LOTM. You sure got my vote. Exceptional journal, and one for the books. Also keep tracking the "test plot". So interested to see if the results will force someone to burn down a lawn of the month.


Thanks for the vote! I needed it! Haha. It's not over yet. We'll see if I win by the end of the night!

I feel for you on the Reno tremendously after doing this test plot. It's way worse than watching paint dry and hoping for progress. I'm almost at 28 days since seed down and it has a long ways to go. I couldn't imagine having my entire lawn like this, waiting for results. Sheesh.


----------



## jrubb42

Sprayed 0.2# of N and 8 ml of T-nex per K this morning. Wanted to start N blitz today but couldn't water in PGR so it will have to wait until tomorrow. PGR was more important right now. Plan is to drop 0.5# of granular urea per K tomorrow morning.


----------



## jrubb42

Test plot update: It's safe to say we're out of pout stage....maybe not Everest. Bluebank, Mazama, and mix all look pretty similar at this point. Everest is still much darker but not growing as fast. Pretty disappointed with it's germination also.

I'm thinking I will give it it's first cut tomorrow at 7/8ths. Grass around it still needs plenty of time to heal.. I'm going to give it some N today to help speed it up..


----------



## Slingblade_847

@jrubb42

Dude. Looking awesome man! I've heard that a single plant can spread as far as a dinner plate. Those following this journal can correct me on that. I imagine this should fill in this season. Can't wait come October 1st to see this. Keep the updates coming!!


----------



## Stuofsci02

@jrubb42 ... Just keep smashing it with N and it will be all filled in by end of OCT...


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> @jrubb42 ... Just keep smashing it with N and it will be all filled in by end of OCT...


Is too much nitrogen a thing with young grass or can I pound the hell out of it like I'm planning with the N blitz on the rest of my yard?


----------



## SumBeach35

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jrubb42 ... Just keep smashing it with N and it will be all filled in by end of OCT...
> 
> 
> 
> Is too much nitrogen a thing with young grass or can I pound the hell out of it like I'm planning with the N blitz on the rest of my yard?
Click to expand...

Depending on the cultivar, yes. Some cultivars do better with lower N inputs.

My 365ss blend is one of those. If you slam it with N it ends up leggy and not as healthy than if you keep the N inputs reduced.

If any of those cultivars are on the low input list, id reduce N inputs slightly.


----------



## Justmatson

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jrubb42 ... Just keep smashing it with N and it will be all filled in by end of OCT...
> 
> 
> 
> Is too much nitrogen a thing with young grass or can I pound the hell out of it like I'm planning with the N blitz on the rest of my yard?
Click to expand...

Pound it!!

I went pretty heavy with mine. 3lbs over 2 months, mostly organics though.

There was a study somewhere in the "cool season fall n blitz" can't remember what page but they were pushing, upwards of 12lbs of Nitrogen on kbg. 
Upwards of 24lbs on bentgrass.... @g-man might remember what it was about....


----------



## SNOWBOB11

SumBeach35 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jrubb42 ... Just keep smashing it with N and it will be all filled in by end of OCT...
> 
> 
> 
> Is too much nitrogen a thing with young grass or can I pound the hell out of it like I'm planning with the N blitz on the rest of my yard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Depending on the cultivar, yes. Some cultivars do better with lower N inputs.
> 
> My 365ss blend is one of those. If you slam it with N it ends up leggy and not as healthy than if you keep the N inputs reduced.
> 
> If any of those cultivars are on the low input list, id reduce N inputs slightly.
Click to expand...

The 365ss blend is all KBG correct? I'm surprised to hear you say that it doesn't like as much nitrogen. As far as I knew all bluegrass loves nitrogen. I don't know why one cultivar would not like N when most do well with extra nitrogen.

@jrubb42 You don't necessarily have to smash the young grass with nitrogen. Light weekly apps .20 lb/N per M does well for a new reno.


----------



## SumBeach35

SNOWBOB11 said:


> SumBeach35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is too much nitrogen a thing with young grass or can I pound the hell out of it like I'm planning with the N blitz on the rest of my yard?
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on the cultivar, yes. Some cultivars do better with lower N inputs.
> 
> My 365ss blend is one of those. If you slam it with N it ends up leggy and not as healthy than if you keep the N inputs reduced.
> 
> If any of those cultivars are on the low input list, id reduce N inputs slightly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The 365ss blend is all KBG correct? I'm surprised to hear you say that it doesn't like as much nitrogen. As far as I knew all bluegrass loves nitrogen. I don't know why one cultivar would not like N when most do well with extra nitrogen.
> 
> @jrubb42 You don't necessarily have to smash the young grass with nitrogen. Light weekly apps .20 lb/N per M does well for a new reno.
Click to expand...

It is all KBG. Legend, Bolt and Blue Note are the three cultivars.

@osuturfman advised me about the lower N preference of this blend. He did a test section of regular high N grow in and then following the seed company recommendations.

These cultivars were bred to use less N but give the same results is my understanding.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

SumBeach35 said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SumBeach35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on the cultivar, yes. Some cultivars do better with lower N inputs.
> 
> My 365ss blend is one of those. If you slam it with N it ends up leggy and not as healthy than if you keep the N inputs reduced.
> 
> If any of those cultivars are on the low input list, id reduce N inputs slightly.
> 
> 
> 
> The 365ss blend is all KBG correct? I'm surprised to hear you say that it doesn't like as much nitrogen. As far as I knew all bluegrass loves nitrogen. I don't know why one cultivar would not like N when most do well with extra nitrogen.
> 
> @jrubb42 You don't necessarily have to smash the young grass with nitrogen. Light weekly apps .20 lb/N per M does well for a new reno.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is all KBG. Legend, Bolt and Blue Note are the three cultivars.
> 
> @osuturfman advised me about the lower N preference of this blend. He did a test section of regular high N grow in and then following the seed company recommendations.
> 
> These cultivars were bred to use less N but give the same results is my understanding.
Click to expand...

I would have thought still being bluegrass cultivars the difference would have been small for preferred nitrogen uptake from one cultivar to the next. I know my bewitched always does well with extra nitrogen. Interesting to hear about these cultivars liking less nitrogen.


----------



## g-man

No need to do 12lb of N.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Justmatson said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @jrubb42 ... Just keep smashing it with N and it will be all filled in by end of OCT...
> 
> 
> 
> Is too much nitrogen a thing with young grass or can I pound the hell out of it like I'm planning with the N blitz on the rest of my yard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pound it!!
> 
> I went pretty heavy with mine. 3lbs over 2 months, mostly organics though.
> 
> There was a study somewhere in the "cool season fall n blitz" can't remember what page but they were pushing, upwards of 12lbs of Nitrogen on kbg.
> Upwards of 24lbs on bentgrass.... @g-man might remember what it was about....
Click to expand...

12 lbs is insane... I was thinking more like 3-4 lbs ...


----------



## Johnl445

Hey @jrubb42 , when using pgr, how much time have you gained in between mows?


----------



## jrubb42

Johnl445 said:


> Hey @jrubb42 , when using pgr, how much time have you gained in between mows?


Without it, I'm mowing every other day. Maybe every three days if I push it. With PGR I can get away with 3 or 4 days without mowing. 5 days if I push it. I don't mind mowing so I'm usually always mowing every 3 days with PGR.


----------



## jrubb42

Put down Rgs, Humic 12, Prodiamine, and .5lbs N per K of granular urea this morning and watered it all in. Might be a little late with my Prodiamine app. Totally forgot about it. Also gave the test plot a quick mow before the irrigation came on. I barely cut anything at 7/8ths. Bluebank by far had the most clippings.


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 Why late with PreM. I think some misconception goes around... to apply when temps drop below 70... Yes if it 1st ever app, no, if you previous app still holds.


----------



## jrubb42

Babameca said:


> @jrubb42 Why late with PreM. I think some misconception goes around... to apply when temps drop below 70... Yes if it 1st ever app, no, if you previous app still holds.


That makes sense. And remember why I cancelled my reno? PreM. Ha. I should be good then. Thanks for the heads up. Avg soil temp has been dropping below 70 so that's why I thought I was "late".


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 I just overlap. Every 2-2.5 months at 3 months rate. May have 20ish weeds (broadleaf). Zero crabgrass. Last app was July 4th. Planing to do a last one in 2-3 weeks. If you drop it late April you at min rate, you can freely seed in August.


----------



## jrubb42

Babameca said:


> @jrubb42 I just overlap. Every 2-2.5 months at 3 months rate. May have 20ish weeds (broadleaf). Zero crabgrass. Last app was July 4th. Planing to do a last one in 2-3 weeks. If you drop it late April you at min rate, you can freely seed in August.


This sounds like a perfect way of doing it. It may be an extra application but if I'm spraying already, not a big deal.

And it gives you the option of an August reno!


----------



## jrubb42

Got a mow in and the yard is looking great. I swear to God I'm going to poison my neighbors tree. I can not get one decent photo when the sun is behind me cuz of the damn tree shadow. All of the photos should look like this:



But instead they all look like this because the shadow screws up the exposure. On top of it, it covers most of my yard. So frustrating.


----------



## Stuofsci02

@jrubb42 Tree or no tree it is looking fantastic.. One of the nicest no-mix I have seen...


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> @jrubb42 Tree or no tree it is looking fantastic.. One of the nicest no-mix I have seen...


Thanks Stu! Here are a couple more from today.


----------



## Zcape35

Looks amazing, you must really enjoy it! Looks like the pup does for sure.


----------



## Babameca

Love it! I am just wondering what's next for all of us :lol:


----------



## Stuofsci02

Babameca said:


> Love it! I am just wondering what's next for all of us :lol:


I have wondered this. I am always looking for improvement. Once there is no chance for more improvement I wonder if I will be as motivated. Don't get me wrong, that is a ways away. I need to do a full cultivar swap first.


----------



## jrubb42

@Zcape35 it is fun. And the dog definitely does love the short grass. And peeing on it. I usually mark it with a rock and go get the hose. Sometimes he sneaks a nice yellow burn spot in on me. The plugger tool does wonders though!

@Babameca @Stuofsci02 I sometimes think of that also, but I feel like next year when I'm not working from home as much and traveling on the road more, I'm not going to have nearly the time to take care of the lawn like I am now. I'm going to have anxiety about not mowing or taking care of it 😂.

I seriously could spend my entire day out in the lawn if I wanted, perfecting little things. So I definitely have a ways to go before I get bored or feel like I've accomplished everything I wanted to.

Plus I have 4k in the back that I've basically neglected this year. I have killed 6 moles and haven't seen any activity from them in almost 2 weeks so I may have got them all. I told myself I'm not doing anything major back there until I got those little bastards under control. It's crazy bumpy back there from years of tunnels. The last home owners did nothing about them.


----------



## jrubb42

Shrubs need a serious trim. Lol.


----------



## Slingblade_847

@jrubb42

Man is this looking great! Have you gone out at 2am under the cover of darkness and sprinkled this around your neighbors tree yet?!


Forget about the "small print". We would all understand.


----------



## Stuofsci02

@jrubb42 That's a kid who knows he has the best lawn on the block...


----------



## MNLawnGuy1980

@jrubb42, lawn looks great man! Did you put the N in the plots in the back? Is that what you meant by young grass? I got my first mow in yesterday after my overseed and am trying to figure out if I can start N on it. Seed went down on 08/14.


----------



## Slingblade_847

@jrubb42 test plot photos, please?


----------



## jrubb42

Sorry I haven't responded to anyone or updated anything in awhile. I've been dealing with some potentially serious medical issues lately. Trying to get it all figured out and haven't really been in the mood to really talk grass.

I did get a cut in today at 5/8ths. Love the way it looks at this height. Looks like fake turf almost. Also have been dropping 0.5 lbs N of Urea every week. The spotty coverage drives me a little nutty though. Some parts of the grass look like leopard spots of dark grass. I'm hoping the more and more I drop, the more spots will eventually disappear.

I'll post plot photos tomorrow @Slingblade_847


----------



## ksturfguy

Looks great and I hope what ever your dealing with medically you kick it's ***.


----------



## Babameca

@jrubb42 I hope all unfolds right for you brother. Grass can wait...and will.


----------



## jrubb42

@ksturfguy @Babameca thanks guys. I appreciate it.


----------



## Harts

You've come a long way this season. Best thing you can do now is go back to the first few photos when you cut low and look at how far you've come. Well done. Sub 1" isn't for the faint of heart. It takes patience and perseverance - 2 things that I am sure will serve you well with your health. Good luck brother.


----------



## Slingblade_847

@jrubb42 my man. It's grass. It will be waiting for you, and so will the rest of us. Most important thing is to take care of what matters. Thoughts and prayers brother.


----------



## SumBeach35

Grass looks great but take care of yourself first, the grass can always be fixed


----------



## Chris LI

Hang in there! I wish you the best for recovery and peace for you and your family. It is good that you reached out to the folks in your extended family of TLF. As others have mentioned, focus on regaining your health, and the grass will be there for when you are able to get to it.


----------



## jrubb42

@Harts @Slingblade_847 @SumBeach35 @Chris LI thank you for the kind words and positive thoughts. I really appreciate it.

Here are some pics from yesterday's cut at 0.625 inches.


----------



## Harts

You couldn't possibly dominate your neighbors anymore than that. It's stunning.


----------



## Alex1389

Looks great man. That's it! You've inspired me -- dropping to .75" this weekend!


----------



## leifcat1

That's some serious domination! My thoughts are with you and your family as you overcome whatever challenges you are facing. &#128170;


----------



## Slingblade_847

@jrubb42 holy sh*t. If I was your neighbor, I'd be bitter as all get out...stemmed from pure jealousy. If these ding dang photos don't get you LOTM, I'm calling for an investigation.


----------



## Zcape35

Sick a$$ stripes my man!


----------



## Zip-a-Dee-Zee

Eye-popping stuff, man. Best wishes getting past whatever is slowing you down.


----------



## hammerhead

Just wanted to say I'm a regular silent reader of your journal. Your journey from this spring until now is incredible. I hope your issues turn out as nothing serious. Good luck!

Edit: i cannot nominate you for the next LOTM, but someone definitely should


----------



## Stuofsci02

Looks great brother! I wish you speedy recovery from whatever you are battling.


----------



## MNLawnGuy1980

Lawn looks great, no question about that. I hope you get the medical issues figured out. Sorry to hear that you are going through a tough time.


----------



## rob13psu

Sorry to hear this. Hope everything turns out OK.

Grass is looking excellent!


----------



## mribbens

Your lawn is on point, has been all summer, kudos to your dedication to that and use the same effort and grit to get through your medical items, you got this!


----------



## Babameca

Keep hammering N Jay, as well as the challenges you may be facing at this point.


----------



## jrubb42

Thanks for all of the replies. I usually like to respond to everyone but there are so many since my last login. I really appreciate all of the good wishes and positive thoughts. It really means a lot.

@Slingblade_847 here are a few photos of the test plot. It was just cut at 0.625. The grass around it is still trying to recover from going low. I've been experimenting with hitting the plot with the same N blitz that I'm doing in my front yard. About 0.65 lbs of N every week. It's really starting to fill in and look pretty dark. To be honest, it's hard to tell a lot of them apart. Mazama is a little bit darker than everything else but they all look pretty similar.

My dog dropped a deuce by the plot and did the "rip grass out with his back paws, burnout thing" to cover his poop right in the Everest plot so he ripped up two areas of it. It was already the thinnest and he did that on top of it. Ha.

Need to hit it with tenacity at some point. A lot of clover and random weeds in there


----------



## jrubb42

For those that don't remember what is what. Here is what each plot is.


----------



## jrubb42

A little different lighting. Evening/Overcast


----------



## Slingblade_847

@jrubb42 filling in nicely, and color looks amazing! I agree the Manama is darker, but very similar to the blend as well in my opinion.


----------



## jrubb42

This morning I put down .23lbs of N, 8ml of T-Nex, 1.5oz of FEature, along with CA and NIS, per K. @Stuofsci02 I started with a pH of 8.5 with my water and added 1oz per gallon of CA, using your cocktail as a base. My pH dropped to 1.4 :shock: On my second batch, I started out by using 0.2 oz per gallon and figured I'd adjust from there.. The pH dropped to 2.4. It's safe to say a little CA goes a LOOONNNG way.

@Slingblade_847 yeah, it definitely looks more dense in person. As far as the cultivars go, I now know why there were people saying don't overanalyze the NTEP scores. It's very hard to tell from the naked eye the differences between them. I do like how dark the Mazama is right now though. We'll see what happens next year with color after they mature a bit.


----------



## Di3soft

@jrubb42 how many dag? I want to put down some pgr as well but I'm only at 41 dag.


----------



## jrubb42

Di3soft said:


> @jrubb42 how many dag? I want to put down some pgr as well but I'm only at 41 dag.


I'm at 43 DAG on the test plots. I did not put any of that mix on the test plot, sorry I should've been more clear. I only used that mix on my front yard that I'm mowing low on. The only thing I've hit the test plot with is 0.5 to 0.75 lbs of N per week with granular Urea. I know it's a lot compared to what the guide says to do, but I'm just experimenting a little bit. It looks to be growing in nicely with what I'm doing though.


----------



## Di3soft

Ah ok thanks man, was hoping to experiment with pgr maybe I'll do it on a small patch and see what happens


----------



## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> This morning I put down .23lbs of N, 8ml of T-Nex, 1.5oz of FEature, along with CA and NIS, per K. @Stuofsci02 I started with a pH of 8.5 with my water and added 1oz per gallon of CA, using your cocktail as a base. My pH dropped to 1.4 :shock: On my second batch, I started out by using 0.2 oz per gallon and figured I'd adjust from there.. The pH dropped to 2.4. It's safe to say a little CA goes a LOOONNNG way.
> 
> @Slingblade_847 yeah, it definitely looks more dense in person. As far as the cultivars go, I now know why there were people saying don't overanalyze the NTEP scores. It's very hard to tell from the naked eye the differences between them. I do like how dark the Mazama is right now though. We'll see what happens next year with color after they mature a bit.


Yes indeed... It does not take much CA. But I was using 1 oz CA per 4 gallon. Either-way CA is pretty cheap and and 1 oz/4 gal has been working well for me..

If there is somewhere that I indicated 1oz per gallon, let me know so I can go correct it. It should be 0.25 oz per gal.


----------



## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This morning I put down .23lbs of N, 8ml of T-Nex, 1.5oz of FEature, along with CA and NIS, per K. @Stuofsci02 I started with a pH of 8.5 with my water and added 1oz per gallon of CA, using your cocktail as a base. My pH dropped to 1.4 :shock: On my second batch, I started out by using 0.2 oz per gallon and figured I'd adjust from there.. The pH dropped to 2.4. It's safe to say a little CA goes a LOOONNNG way.
> 
> @Slingblade_847 yeah, it definitely looks more dense in person. As far as the cultivars go, I now know why there were people saying don't overanalyze the NTEP scores. It's very hard to tell from the naked eye the differences between them. I do like how dark the Mazama is right now though. We'll see what happens next year with color after they mature a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed... It does not take much CA. But I was using 1 oz CA per 4 gallon. Either-way CA is pretty cheap and and 1 oz/4 gal has been working well for me..
> 
> If there is somewhere that I indicated 1oz per gallon, let me know so I can go correct it. It should be 0.25 oz per gal.
Click to expand...



This is where I read it from. Not a big deal. I think I read that you said it doesn't matter much for the pH once you're under 5. Hope you're right haha.


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## Zcape35

It's filling in nice for sure. 
Quick question are you spraying that cocktail and then watering it in after 4 hours or so?


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## jrubb42

Zcape35 said:


> It's filling in nice for sure.
> Quick question are you spraying that cocktail and then watering it in after 4 hours or so?


I usually spray in the morning and don't water in until the next morning. You'd be good to water in after 4 hours though. It just works easier with my schedule to spray in the morning.


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## Stuofsci02

jrubb42 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This morning I put down .23lbs of N, 8ml of T-Nex, 1.5oz of FEature, along with CA and NIS, per K. @Stuofsci02 I started with a pH of 8.5 with my water and added 1oz per gallon of CA, using your cocktail as a base. My pH dropped to 1.4 :shock: On my second batch, I started out by using 0.2 oz per gallon and figured I'd adjust from there.. The pH dropped to 2.4. It's safe to say a little CA goes a LOOONNNG way.
> 
> @Slingblade_847 yeah, it definitely looks more dense in person. As far as the cultivars go, I now know why there were people saying don't overanalyze the NTEP scores. It's very hard to tell from the naked eye the differences between them. I do like how dark the Mazama is right now though. We'll see what happens next year with color after they mature a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed... It does not take much CA. But I was using 1 oz CA per 4 gallon. Either-way CA is pretty cheap and and 1 oz/4 gal has been working well for me..
> 
> If there is somewhere that I indicated 1oz per gallon, let me know so I can go correct it. It should be 0.25 oz per gal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This is where I read it from. Not a big deal. I think I read that you said it doesn't matter much for the pH once you're under 5. Hope you're right haha.
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing this out. I have corrected that post. I wouldn't worry, there is another member that was putting CA down at a high rate and was finding fungal pressures to be lower than the area they did not. I can't say anything about it other then it did not harm the grass


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## jrubb42

Stuofsci02 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed... It does not take much CA. But I was using 1 oz CA per 4 gallon. Either-way CA is pretty cheap and and 1 oz/4 gal has been working well for me..
> 
> If there is somewhere that I indicated 1oz per gallon, let me know so I can go correct it. It should be 0.25 oz per gal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is where I read it from. Not a big deal. I think I read that you said it doesn't matter much for the pH once you're under 5. Hope you're right haha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for pointing this out. I have corrected that post. I wouldn't worry, there is another member that was putting CA down at a high rate and was finding fungal pressures to be lower than the area they did not. I can't say anything about it other then it did not harm the grass
Click to expand...

Sounds good! I haven't seen any ill effects so far and I can FINALLY see a difference in the color after 12 hours. I have a hard line where I stopped from my front yard to my back. My issue was definitely the pH. Wasted half a bag of FEature not getting results before. I wonder if the high pH had an impact on my PGR and foliar N applications as well? Too bad it's the end of the year now that I finally tried it out and it's working.


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## Di3soft

@jrubb42 what oh of the water are you aiming for when applying? Just measure my water is at 7.02. Should I be adding CA to all my sprays?


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## jrubb42

Di3soft said:


> @jrubb42 what oh of the water are you aiming for when applying? Just measure my water is at 7.02. Should I be adding CA to all my sprays?


I was aiming for 5/5.5 before it dropped down to 1.5/2.5 :lol:

It wouldn't hurt to experiment with it. Citric acid is super cheap and will last awhile. It made a huge difference in results for me so far.


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## Di3soft

Sounds good I'll give it a go with tomorrow's app. Any side effects with propi? I'll be doing 1oz propi, .25n per k


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## jrubb42

Di3soft said:


> Sounds good I'll give it a go with tomorrow's app. Any side effects with propi? I'll be doing 1oz propi, .25n per k


Haven't tried it with it, so I'm not sure. I'm guessing not. I'd honestly stay away from the PGR with a new reno though. You want it to grow as much as possible, not stunt it's growth.


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## Di3soft

Decided against pgr this fall I'll start in the spring. Was talking about propi the fungicide.


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## jrubb42

Di3soft said:


> Decided against pgr this fall I'll start in the spring. Was talking about propi the fungicide.


Sounds good. Just saw you mention it earlier.


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## Di3soft

Yea I was thinking of trying it but thinking more about it don't want to slow growth


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## Slingblade_847

jrubb42 said:


> This morning I put down .23lbs of N, 8ml of T-Nex, 1.5oz of FEature, along with CA and NIS, per K. @Stuofsci02 I started with a pH of 8.5 with my water and added 1oz per gallon of CA, using your cocktail as a base. My pH dropped to 1.4 :shock: On my second batch, I started out by using 0.2 oz per gallon and figured I'd adjust from there.. The pH dropped to 2.4. It's safe to say a little CA goes a LOOONNNG way.
> 
> @Slingblade_847 yeah, it definitely looks more dense in person. As far as the cultivars go, I now know why there were people saying don't overanalyze the NTEP scores. It's very hard to tell from the naked eye the differences between them. I do like how dark the Mazama is right now though. We'll see what happens next year with color after they mature a bit.


The real question is...we know why you did this test plot. When will you decide if it warrants you burning down the gorgeous lawn you have now?


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## jrubb42

I can't believe the results from lowering the pH and using foliar iron. I'm wondering if it was affecting my N and PGR applications also, because I woke up this morning and the grass was stupid dark compared to what it's been all year. I'm kicking myself for not using CA earlier. Here's what it looked like before my afternoon cut.



Here's post afternoon cut.


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## jrubb42

@Slingblade_847 to answer your question. I'm not sure now about the front. I'm thinking I'm going to reno the back instead now that I've taken care of 95% of the mole problems back there. I'm still thinking I want an elite cultivar in the front at some point. Don't know if it will be next year though after discovering how much the citric acid helps my iron applications. Who knows the plan will probably change by next year :lol:


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## Di3soft

@jrubb42 i can only aspire for my lawn to look like yours. Did my application of N today with CA lowered the ph of the water to 4. Then I left till Sunday so we will see how it is when I get back. Maybe I'll convince @Slingblade_847 to come and mow my yard while I'm gone haha


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## Slingblade_847

Di3soft said:


> @Slingblade_847 to come and mow my yard while I'm gone haha


 :lol: :lol: Hahaha!!


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## jrubb42

Di3soft said:


> @jrubb42 i can only aspire for my lawn to look like yours. Did my application of N today with CA lowered the ph of the water to 4. Then I left till Sunday so we will see how it is when I get back. Maybe I'll convince @Slingblade_847 to come and mow my yard while I'm gone haha


Thanks man. It's been a lot of work this year. The wife is definitely sick of hearing about the grass. Lol. I wish I got the chance to do a reno this year. You're going to be happy with the new cultivars in your yard!


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## SOLARSUPLEX

WOW is all i can say. I just read this thing post #1 to current and tossed an excited PM in there as i saw we had the same reel mower. This thing went through its phases! looked great with the higher HOC, then it went through the dethatch phase and looked like most trugreen poster yards :lol: before you got it coming back strong. I'm impressed.

Seeing as it took a good while and multiple mows to get it at a sub 1.5" HOC on a consistent basis, would you have done anything different striving for that low cut now? I just seeded with PRG and did my first mow the other day. The goal is to get somewhere around that 1-1.5" HOC.

Amazing lawn again, definitely my LOTM nomination for next month.


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## MNLawnGuy1980

@SOLARSUPLEX, isn't it insane! You can still vote for him this month, voting is open still


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## Babameca

@jrubb42 Looks ridiculous!!! 
I hope all goes better for you bro. By the way, you start having wobbling ( I can clearly see waving effect). Change mowing direction to 90 tor 45 degrees and keep it for awhile. I know, it will look less attractive from the street, but it is a needed evil to avoid deepening these 'grooves'. I guess I am referring to your 'side yard'.


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## jrubb42

@SOLARSUPLEX thanks for all of the kind words man. I'm glad you enjoyed the journal. I replied back to your PM.

As far as what I would've done differently from the start? I would've scalped to 3/8ths of an inch on the first cut of the year, then dethatched the hell out of the yard, cut at 3/8ths again after that. Then moved up to one inch and stayed there for awhile. It will be ugly as hell for about 3 weeks or so, but it will recover and look awesome after that.

@Babameca thanks bro! I have been noticing the grooves are getting worse and worse. I'll take your advice and change up my pattern. Thanks for the advice!


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## SOLARSUPLEX

jrubb42 said:


> @SOLARSUPLEX thanks for all of the kind words man. I'm glad you enjoyed the journal. I replied back to your PM.
> 
> As far as what I would've done differently from the start? I would've scalped to 3/8ths of an inch on the first cut of the year, then dethatched the hell out of the yard, cut at 3/8ths again after that. Then moved up to one inch and stayed there for awhile. It will be ugly as hell for about 3 weeks or so, but it will recover and look awesome after that.
> 
> @Babameca thanks bro! I have been noticing the grooves are getting worse and worse. I'll take your advice and change up my pattern. Thanks for the advice!





MNLawnGuy1980 said:


> @SOLARSUPLEX, isn't it insane! You can still vote for him this month, voting is open still


@MNLawnGuy1980 Consider it done :thumbup:

@jrubb42 Great input. Thats what i've done on accident on half my back yard just playing around. My father in law had a sunjo and i gave that thing a run for its money.

I'm curious what your thought process would be if doing it from seed? I have the opportunity to let my PRG grow quite tall before knocking it down or should i just start training it to be low from the get go?


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## g-man

@jrubb42 how is the lawn doing? The test plots?


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## steffen707

jrubb42 said:


> For those that don't remember what is what. Here is what each plot is.


All 4 look very similar in color here, but in the video you sent me, the plot with Bewitched definately looked a shade lighter.
Bluebank actually looks the lightest in this photo.


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