# Is a "bluemuda" even worth trying?



## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

I've seen a few references to Bluemuda (KBG plus Bermuda) in the transition zone. I'm aware it started mostly on sports fields.

Is it a workable solution for a (nearly) year-round green lawn in Maryland? Or will it just be a patchy mess?


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

I don't think you're south enough to make the Bermuda work well for you. I would stick with kbg. @bernstem has a great journal with kbg in the transition zone. You should check it out.


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

Yeah, I was wondering if winter-hardiness would be an issue. I'm on the zone 6/7 line. I have seen Bermuda lawns here a time or two, but the only warm-season grass that is semi-common is Zoysia, and while Zoysia does look good from mid-May through early October, it's brown all winter, and the trade-off doesn't seem quite worth it.


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

The thing is...Warm-season grasses, when you do see them here, typically stay green on natural summer rainfall through the summer heat (unless we're in a pronounced drought). However, they take forever to green-up in spring and look like straw by November.

TTTF can often stay semi-green in summer without irrigation. KBG has to be babied but looks great with irrigation. It browns out by June most years without it.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Before trying bluemuda (you do need to keep the kbg alive in the summer), I would consider Bermuda with an annual winter overseed of prg. A lot of the warm season guys do that.


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## sam (Mar 10, 2018)

I have common Bermuda invading around a third my front and it's doing VERY well in MD :lol:

It actually looks good in summer but makes for a yellow patch in winter. So last year I judged right when the Bermuda was slowing down in the fall, then cut it super low, and overseeded TTTF. And then, with a little luck from the weather, the TTTf came in and I had a green lawn all winter that looked good all year.

This year I did same by scalping at the right date but the one difference is that I gave a try at also overseeding hybrid bluegrass along with the TTTF. I don't really expect this process is enough to make the bluegrass establish well / permanently but thought I'd try and see what happens (and I had plenty of other projects this year on the lawn, so I didn't need to take on a full on bluemuda project, instead I just scalped and threw down). We'll see how it does - the cool season seedlings are now already up and green while the Bermuda is checking out. Next year I might make a real attempt at a permanent Hybrid blumuda by seeding much earlier and really setting back the Bermuda first, so it gives time for the bluegrass to Establish strong.


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## cityofoaks (Sep 8, 2020)

Last time I was in MD I saw Bermuda everywhere doing great, that was Annapolis area anyway. I've also seen it as far north as Michigan, again doing fine in Summer although I'm sure it's brown there a lot of the year. It really can survive almost anywhere I am convinced.

I've been following this concept for a while, it sounds cool but I don't see how the KBG would survive at all as thick as Bermuda gets in the summer when kept properly. If it becomes an annual overseed thing then might as well stick with rye for that.


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

It's exceedingly difficult to find actual dormant cold-hardiness figures for Bermudagrass, but I vaguely remember hearing that on bare ground, it's basically zone 7 hardy, although I've known of it surviving subzero temps with some snow cover protecting it.


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## sam (Mar 10, 2018)

I know some people worry about Bermuda during our winters, but I also know there's absolute loads of Bermuda here. Maybe that's a difference between common Bermuda, or maybe that's common wisdom from before the weather changed. And I can only imagine that the people who worried about winter survival were the ones thinking about pure Bermuda lawn, so they were worried about losing patches / getting weed break-through after a tough winter. But if you are doing bluemuda, then I can't see the issue with Bermuda over winter. If the Bermuda loses ground after a tough winter the kbg is there. And it's green and it gets a chance to develop a firmer footing on life before the Bermuda comes roaring back - which it obviously will eventually, there's no stopping it from what I can see.


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## sam (Mar 10, 2018)

If the last few years are any indication, I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually end up with more Bermuda than fescue here. Between the weather and the gray leaf spot, I just don't see TTTF on a winning track right now in this region in terms of survival of the fittest.


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

I'd still pick Zoysia over Bermuda as a standalone warm-season in this area, since it tends to be green a bit longer on both ends of the season.

Although our winters have been warmer overall, we HAVE had a couple shots of pretty notable cold (2013/2014, 2014/2015, and a short spell in late January, 2018) that would be as cold as anything we typically see (except crazy cold like '85 and '94).

My TTTF hasn't yet suffered from Gray Leaf Spot.


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## BroLawn (May 15, 2020)

I'm giving it a shot because I don't have many options with my bermuda invasion. Montgomery County banned most herbicides. We'll see how the experiment goes.

I scalped, dethatched, and overseeded Turf Blue HGT and Mazama on Labor day.


Here's the bluegrass coming through the bermuda.


Here's the lawn this past weekend.


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

BroLawn said:


> I'm giving it a shot because I don't have many options with my bermuda invasion. Montgomery County banned most herbicides. We'll see how the experiment goes.
> 
> I scalped, dethatched, and overseeded Turf Blue HGT and Mazama on Labor day.
> 
> ...


Nice so far! Your Bermuda is still pretty green. My patches of ZOysia have browned out some even though I haven't officially had a frost yet, the general cool weather (save for this week) has slowed it down.

Ah, yes, MontCo at your service re: banning herbicides. Yet they allow things FAR worse (like alcohol, cigarettes, most household cleaning supplies) to remain legal (not that I favor prohibition). Because herbicides are "OMG SO scary" to the soccer moms. :roll:


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## Pezking7p (May 23, 2020)

How does the overall color of "good" bermuda varieties compare to KBG?


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## sam (Mar 10, 2018)

BroLawn said:


> I'm giving it a shot because I don't have many options with my bermuda invasion. Montgomery County banned most herbicides. We'll see how the experiment goes.
> 
> I scalped, dethatched, and overseeded Turf Blue HGT and Mazama on Labor day.


Nice! Good luck.

Here's TTTF and hybrid blue grass (SPF-30) coming up through common Bermuda (scalped and mostly dormant) and mulched in leaves


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## sam (Mar 10, 2018)

MDJoe said:


> BroLawn said:
> 
> 
> > I'm giving it a shot because I don't have many options with my bermuda invasion. Montgomery County banned most herbicides.
> ...


Talk about Moco's law and allowing far worse things - some of the organic herbicide alternatives which are allowed in moco, like acetic acid, will send you to the ER if you have an accident. And the weed you hit would've regrown from its roots/rhizomes by the time you are out.

Yet other herbicides are banned - ones which were originally chosen entirely on the basis that they hurt plants not people.


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

It's all suburban NIMBY crap put together by people suffering from severe cases of Dunning-Kruger syndrome.


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## cityofoaks (Sep 8, 2020)

Can't you just drive to Virginia and get whatever you want? It's like 20 miles or something. Another worthless rule that is unenforceable.


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## sam (Mar 10, 2018)

cityofoaks said:


> Can't you just drive to Virginia and get whatever you want? It's like 20 miles or something. Another worthless rule that is unenforceable.


You don't even have to drive to Virginia, they still sell everything in moco!!! It's not illegal to buy sell, just illegal to USE on a lawn, playground and a couple other types of places. In fact they say you're still allowed to use it on your own garden, just not the lawn.

Almost impossible to enforce... except the lawn companies can't just disregard it because they're not just a single homeowner. They've starting to switch over to treating without pesticides or fungicides. But many homeowners don't even know there's a law. So now the licensed guys can't but we still have the average homeowners applying the pesticides.


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

I assume trying to overseed Zoysia with KBG (or even TTTF or Rye) would be wrought with the same issues?

Basically, I can't irrigate. The yield of my well simply isn't enough for my size yard. I can manage to irrigate chunks of the yard in order to establish seed or sod, but mathematically, my well yield simply isn't sufficient. I did the math.


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