# Soil Test - Preparing for Fall Reno



## San (Jun 21, 2021)

So I got the results of my soil test back and looking for some inputs.

I'm doing a full renovation on 20k sqft this fall, as I just moved and the yard is all weeds with a little rye grass and I want TTTF with KBG.

First question, would you treat the pH?

This is a new construction, and former wetlands, so who knows where the soil came from.
However with all the calcium the pH is pretty high.

Over the 20k sqft, I would need about 300 lbs of elemental sulfur to bring it down to 6.5.
However firstly I can't seem to find any sulfur in those quantities for a reasonable price and second I'm not sure if it will actually work. As it might just wash away before it gets a chance to transform to sulfuric acid and actually lower the ph?

I was thinking if I can find a source up in MA that sells 50lbs bags, I should maybe look to apply 5lbs/1000sqft now and do a second run next season? Thoughts?

Second question, the phosphorus is already high, but as I understand it, it would be hard for new seed to access that.
So would you still use a starter fertilizer with phosphorus in there?

And finally, should I try and add magnesium to get the ratio Ca to Mg more in line?
I looked at what people recommend to add magnesium and it seems epsom salt is the only option.
But as that only has 10% Mg, I would have to add over 400lbs of epsom salt to get it to the recommended rate.
Which again looks really expensive and really excessive.

Open to any other recommendation and or comments as well.


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## desirous (Dec 15, 2017)

That result is extremely unusual for a MA soil. I'd get a second opinion from Umass. They use a different extraction method (Modified Morgan) but at least the pH should be comparable. I wouldn't make any plans before confirming the validity of the test.


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## LeeB (Jul 1, 2019)

Logan test interpretation: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=60

Perhaps it would be wise to get a second soil test from another source, since the high pH could affect the results here depending on the methods used.

Yes your pH is too high and will cause nutrient availability issues. That's the most important one to correct. Apply 20 lbs of elemental sulfur per 1000 ft^2. Retest in 6 months, it will probably take several apps to bring it down to an ideal pH in the high 6's. You should be able to find a 50 lb bag of sulfur for about $25 at a turf supply place. It's better to do it all now and till it into your soil than adding it all on top later. Citric acid is another option, but I think it's more costly for the same pH change.

Calcium really isn't a concern here, it can be high with no issues.

Potassium is low, I'd consider doing a potash application during your renovation as well.

Magnesium (Mg) is a little low. If you don't like the expense of epsom salt, then use Dolomitic (high magnesium) limestone instead. Make sure it says Dolomitic or high magnesium on the bag otherwise it won't be effective (there are two types of limestone, Dolomitic and regular). Apply at the same rate of 10 lbs per 1000. Dolomitic is much cheaper than epsom to get the same Mg. Unfortunately this will raise the pH a little, so you might need more sulfur later. If you factor this in epsom might be cheaper overall.

Manganese (Mn) is also a little low, you could also optionally throw in a bag or two of manganese sulfate at the turf store if you have enough funds left (this one is expensive). It's much easier to apply Mn during tillage, otherwise you will have to add it in much smaller increments later via foliar feeding. Manganese is tied up at high pH, so lowering the pH to the correct value may allow enough Mn to be available without supplementation.

Getting all the bags applied before tilling it in during the reno is really the most efficient way because you will have to do corrections much more slowly over a few years time otherwise.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

How deep was your sampling? High pH in Massachusetts area is not normal. Normally it is very low.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

If you followed the other forum's instructions to sample only the inch between 3 and 4 inch and report it as 4 inches, your sample is already skewed. It's missing whatever is in inches 1-3. I suggest getting another soil test, like from U of Massachusetts, and following their instructions for soil sampling. If indeed your pH is high and your magnesium is low,, do not add lime. K-Mag/Sul-Po-Mag supplies potassium, magnesium, and sulphur without affecting pH and is an option along with epsom salt. It's not necessary to balance cations. As long as the ppm is in range for sufficiency, the grass will have enough.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I just found your post in ATY. Im not a fan of the 3 to 4in soil sample. Grass grows from the 0 to 6in (or even more), but the bulk of the seeds are in the top inches. Ignoring the soil from that area, will miss the nutrients available there. I know this is andys approach but i don't think it is a good one.

The high pH makes me think that someone tried to add lime to the soil (maybe the builder?). The very high P is also not typical in a new construction soil. Maybe a heavy application of compost?


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

Thanks for all the feedback!

Yes I found ATY first and followed what was posted there, and then I found this forum, which seems to be a lot more active. I'll see if I can squeeze in a second soil test from UMass using the more traditional sampling.

Let me split my posts in sections, first pH:

As the pH looked weird, I did get some pH test strips and one of those pH meters.
Now I know they are not that accurate, but I just wanted to confirm that it was in the ballpark.
Both measurements seem to show in between 7 and 8 for the pH as well.

Based on the work they had to do, I expect they brought in a lot of fill, and except for a million rocks, who knows what was in that fill or where it came from.

Additionally drainage doesn't seem to great either as it takes about a day after a good rainstorm for the soil to return from being a waterbed to actual soil. I understand from this video, that this can also contribute to a high pH.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDBrpdA7ffQ

Though in my case, I don't think that it's so much a high water plane, as just really compacted soil.
So I'm planning to apply a good amount of liquid aerator and also do some manual aerating on top of that, to hopefully improve that. And maybe this is why the calcium is high too?

Would it be possible that if the soil becomes less compacted, is better at getting rid of the water, that the pH will come down as well? Or is this just idle hope on my side?

Second on what to add to the soil:

I checked SiteOne, but it seems everything I need is listed as not for sale in MA. I'm not sure if we are just not allowed to use anything here?

For instance I know they have some pretty strict rules when it comes to Phosphorus applications. https://www.mass.gov/doc/plant-nutrient-regulations-turf-and-lawns-factsheet/download

https://www.siteone.com/en/001297-martin-disper-sul-90-sulfur-turf-grade-50-lb/p/3008
https://www.siteone.com/en/510328-sprayable-fertilizer-magnesium-sulfate-epsom-salt-50-lb/p/390308
https://www.siteone.com/en/34008-manganese-sulfate-31-powder-ca/p/272948

I'll try and make some calls around to see if there is another source to get these things.
As I'm in MA, there is plenty of lime available to make the soil more alkaline, but not much sulfur as typically nobody needs to make their soil more acidic here.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Apparently Massachusetts does have limestone deposits:
https://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/0744/report.pdf

It may be useful to do a vinegar test to see if the soil is calcareous:
https://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/0744/report.pdf

I don't think you'll need phosphorus.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

Virginiagal said:


> Apparently Massachusetts does have limestone deposits:
> https://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/0744/report.pdf
> 
> It may be useful to do a vinegar test to see if the soil is calcareous:
> ...


Thanks, You've linked the same report twice, but I found this for the vinegar test, it seems I need to dry soil for a week, but I'll give it a try. https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/hs1262


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Sorry about that. You found the same article I was trying to link to.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

No problem, I had no clue that if it is calcareous that you can't really do much about it, so it's good to know.
We've been having some pretty heavy rain the last days, so I haven't had a chance to get samples.

However I also noticed that, what I think is crabgrass is growing like crazy, together with the white clover.
So maybe the pH isn't such an issue as I initially thought, based on the thriving crabgrass.

Everything is shallow roots though, so I think I need to focus on that compaction first. 
Planning to do both liquid "aeration" as well as mechanical.

No luck yet eitherway in finding a source for Elemental Sulfur, so I might just get some good starter fertilizer to add with the seed and spoon feed fast N during the initial stages. 
If seed wasn't so expensive I would be less worried, but I don't want to wait a whole year.

With the nonstop rain here, I feel like I'm somewhat behind on my planning, as Gly was on the schedule this week, but we shall see.


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## desirous (Dec 15, 2017)

August 15 would be a lot better time to seed in MA.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

desirous said:


> August 15 would be a lot better time to seed in MA.


That is actually my target seed date, the "behind on plan" part is regering tokilling off what is there, soil corrections, leveling, aerating etc. etc.


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