# Need to be educated



## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Hello, just found this forum as I have been so frustrated with finding information with my problem. First, I live in Texas and have Been updated and the house we live in is 3 years old, so I don't know how realistic my expectations are. First, I think I have commoners Bermuda but am not sure, or it can be a hybrid. It's not very thin at all, the leaves are a little thicker than some of the tall fine Bermuda I've seen but not like st augustine. I have not airrated my yard neither. My problem is I have some real pretty full areas and then a bunch of areas with stolons. Early on I was trying to cut somewhat tall like my neighbors because for some reason, his head was filled in more and taller, and still is taller. I don't understand why I have so many stolons and when I look under them, the grass isn't coming out from the ground, it's just laying on top. I have a Honda lawnmower, so I'm now mowing from the third lowest I believe. I do that because when they laid our grass and dirt, after months it had spots where it diped down and it's so uneven everywhere. So maybe I'm still mowing too tall, but am not sure... So it's hot as hell and I don't know what I am supposed to do during this time of the year. Anyways, I'm jealous of my neighbors as he's told me he hasn't done anything special. I'd love to hear any ideas from anyone. Thanks


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## BrettWayne (Jun 19, 2017)

Can you get some pictures of what you are dealing with ? Most of the time neighbors may not give their secrets lol kinda like a fishermans favorite spot.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

I'm having trouble uploading pics. It takes me to postimage.org but can't do anything once I add a photo


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## BrettWayne (Jun 19, 2017)

See bottom of reply where it says add imagine to post then once you click should give you option to take photo or Choose image


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

As you can see, you can see spots where the grass is full and then see where it's not. Also in this pic there are some holes, because deer have been attacking my yard lately too... That's another story... But I'm assuming this is common Bermuda grass??? Also, what notches should I now this since it doesn't grow very tall in the front yard. My yards face east and west of that helps.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Here's a patch of good grass and then my other grass. And you can see there is some brown under some of the green grass. I'm going to mow today, so I'm not sure how low to go. As you can see some grass is verticle and others horizontal, and I'm afraid of hurting the pretty vertical grass.


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## BrettWayne (Jun 19, 2017)

if you have a uneven lawn and try to cut lower you will just be scalping the lawn in areas .. what is you hieght of cut after you mow? Have you been fertilizing ? Also have you been watering and how much ?


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

That's my worry, I don't want to scalp, so I miss some spots because certain areas don't grow up. I use milargonite and did it about 2 weeks ago. As far as height after cut, I believe it's about 1.5 inches. Watering, I water twice a week with a sprinkler system for about 20 minutes per zone.



BrettWayne said:


> if you have a uneven lawn and try to cut lower you will just be scalping the lawn in areas .. what is you hieght of cut after you mow? Have you been fertilizing ? Also have you been watering and how much ?


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## BrettWayne (Jun 19, 2017)

You want to get 1in of water per week .i would suggest watering only once per week at the 1 inch mark. If you chose to do twice a week make sure you get at least half inch of water. 20 mins with your sprinkler may not be enough. Next time put some cups out or tuna cans and measure the amount of water that fills the cups within that 20 mins and adjust your watering time from there.


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

Welcome, you definitely need some guidance. Your lawn is 3 years old so it could benefit a lot if you scalp and detach the lawn. Bermuda needs a bit more input than others but once you get it in shape, then it's not that hard caring for it. A rotary mower is also not going to give you that smooth look that a lot of us have, at least not without scalping and starting over (by this I mean scalping and maybe some sand to smooth it out). There are a couple members on here that maintain their lawns with a rotary over 1.5" and looks great, but I'm sure they had to put some work first to get there just like everyone else using a reel. For now like everyone has suggested, make sure you are fertilizing, watering and mowing frequently. stolons are a good thing but will get out of control if you don't manage it. Right now I feel you might be stuck unless you scalp or raise your mowing height a bit to let it green up evenly.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

BrettWayne said:


> You want to get 1in of water per week .i would suggest watering only once per week at the 1 inch mark. If you chose to do twice a week make sure you get at least half inch of water. 20 mins with your sprinkler may not be enough. Next time put some cups out or tuna cans and measure the amount of water that fills the cups within that 20 mins and adjust your watering time from there.


See, that's what I was wondering... I was assuming 20 minutes would do it. I may just go buy something to measure it, I'm watering tomorrow morning.


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## BrettWayne (Jun 19, 2017)

Here is a video by grassdaddy who is a member here. https://youtu.be/XLcaHLhO5HU


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## BrettWayne (Jun 19, 2017)

Also like Irias comment above states raising your height could be a good option too if every time you cut it leaves brown patches from cutting the green off due to the uneven portions of your lawn.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Quick question... For each level to raise or lower the lawnmower, does each one represent a height? Like .5 or 1 inch?


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## BrettWayne (Jun 19, 2017)

It depends on your mower.. you can sit your mower on even payment and get a piece of wood like a paint stick and cut it down to fit inside your deck. Place it flush to surface and try to make a mark on stick using blades . Measure height from bottom of stick to the mark to get the height of cut that your mower is set on. there may be a easier way but this is how iv down it in past ..


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

So mine is set to 2 inches. If I go lower by 1 notch like I tried to do, it will scalp it, like I did in a small area. I wish my mower had an in between setting, lol. I may wait to level it when the weather is better, like October if y'all think that's ok to do it. I still can't stand those stupid stolons. Anyways, since I used merlargonite a couple weeks ago, when and what can I do next when it comes to fertilizing? Same product or something different?


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## BrettWayne (Jun 19, 2017)

I like milorganite it's a great product and I suggest if you like it then stick with it ..


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

How long can I wait to spread it out? I know it's organic so it shouldn't really hurt it. And is or bad to just pull out the stolons or what should I do about them?


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## BrettWayne (Jun 19, 2017)

I would leave the stolons and there are a few other guys in group from Texas that can expand better on their fertilizing routines.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

BrettWayne said:


> I would leave the stolons and there are a few other guys in group from Texas that can expand better on their fertilizing routines.


Not without being a little more precise. "Texas" is too vague to give any accurate info. I've seen Dalhart and McAllen be 90 degrees different at the same time before. Elevation, humidity and soil structures all vary quite a bit in our great state.


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## BrettWayne (Jun 19, 2017)

lol true but someone from Texas knows that ..


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

I live in Austin, TX. Today's high was freakin 104. If you need any other info please let me know.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

I'll throw this out there for consideration, and it might be useful to help you understand what's going on with the Bermuda. I have bare areas in my yard where I had a pool installed earlier this year, and the top layer of soil was removed, weeds and all. I didn't reseed, so that section of soil was(and still is) bare. In my front yard, I killed off the carpet grass with Celsius WG, and the dead grass material is still on top of the soil.

Now what's interesting about both of these areas, and what I think is going on with your stolons is that the grass is trying to spread from the crowns, to establish new areas to put down new growth and roots. I have areas where I can see the stolons that are at least 1' long, without having a single crown into the ground. Now if I leave the stolon alone, and check on it in a week, there will be a crown in those areas that it has covered, which is pretty far away from the dense growth area. It's almost like it has to grow to a crazy length before it puts down roots. I'd suggest that you take a section of those stolons, and clip some away, and take a look at the condition of the soil beneath them. I'm willing to bet that it's pretty hard, or there's not much topsoil underneath. For the sake of science, clip away some of those stolons, about the size of a sheet of paper, and see what happens. Just leave a small hole in the growth area, and see what happens. I'd bet that within a week, the stolons will be covering it up again. That being said, if the stolons have a place to root down, they're going to send up the stalks, and bring out the blades.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

I have a feeling that there is rock under the dirt. When I did some digging to install some pavers, I found little rocks in the way. I look under my mulch where the trees are and there are rocks coming out. They did a chitty job with the dirt here... So knowing there are probably rocks underneath, I don't know what I can do about that. But I too have some stolens that are pretty long as well.


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## BrettWayne (Jun 19, 2017)

Stick a long screwdriver in these areas and see if it's hitting rocks or just hard to go into ground.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Suaverc118 said:


> I have a feeling that there is rock under the dirt. When I did some digging to install some pavers, I found little rocks in the way. I look under my mulch where the trees are and there are rocks coming out. They did a chitty job with the dirt here... So knowing there are probably rocks underneath, I don't know what I can do about that. But I too have some stolens that are pretty long as well.


Might be worth looking into getting some donor dirt :lol: or something that you can dig up underneath where those stolons are at, dig out the bad, and replace it with something better. I'm thinking potting soil might be better than rocks and bad soil. Around here, I sometimes see mounds of dirt with signs stuck in them advertising soil for sale.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> Suaverc118 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a feeling that there is rock under the dirt. When I did some digging to install some pavers, I found little rocks in the way. I look under my mulch where the trees are and there are rocks coming out. They did a chitty job with the dirt here... So knowing there are probably rocks underneath, I don't know what I can do about that. But I too have some stolens that are pretty long as well.
> ...


So, chances are stolons won't get under the current dirt and just stay horizontal?


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Stolons will stay above the ground but will send out roots at the nodes and start new plants. Just give them time and you'll see vertical growth out of them.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Thanks


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

"Rock" in the dirt is usually not a problem, I have soil that is full of smaller rocks. Large chunks of rock or concrete are a problem because they keep the grass roots from growing as deep as they would like. A long screwdriver will allow you to find out what you are dealing with there and remediate as necessary.

Your fertilizer question from earlier shouldn't be based on your area as much as your needs/desires for your lawn. Bermuda loves nitrogen, so you will want to put down approx 1 lb of N per 1000sf every 4-6 weeks. Slow release is preferable and should help to keep the growth flushes easier to keep up with. You can get a soil test at either your county extension office or send one off to see if your soil is deficient in other nutrients. Otherwise, I would recommend you put down a balanced fertilizer once per year (18-18-18 or similar) to ensure you are at least replacing what the grass is using. You will want to avoid pushing growth to early (read March) or late (read November) when there is a risk of frost.

Personally, I use Milorganite on the first of every month from April to August and supplement with synthetic nitrogen when I feel it is warranted. I will put down Lesco 15-5-10 Texas Turf Fertilizer (Home Depot) on September 1st to supplement P, K and micros before the grass prepares for dormancy.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Great info Spammage! So what do you mean (read March) and (read November)???
Appreciate everyone's help so far. I ran the sprinkler system for 30 minutes each zone today and most areas had about 1/2 inch and 2 areas had a full inch. So that area I need to cut back.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

I am just indicating that even though the grass may be green or greening, you want to avoid pushing top growth when a frost is possible -- March & November.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Thanks.
As far as leveling, is there a good or bad time to do it? Also, could not thatching also be a problem? Under some of my grass I see old grass.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Another question... Is there a bad/good time to dethatch and also for leveling out the uneven spots??


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## Concretestorm (May 21, 2017)

Suaverc118 said:


> I live in Austin, TX. Today's high was freakin 104. If you need any other info please let me know.


Who works on your reel mowers?


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Should I pull these out from under the grass?


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Iriasj2009 said:


> Welcome, you definitely need some guidance. Your lawn is 3 years old so it could benefit a lot if you scalp and detach the lawn. Bermuda needs a bit more input than others but once you get it in shape, then it's not that hard caring for it. A rotary mower is also not going to give you that smooth look that a lot of us have, at least not without scalping and starting over (by this I mean scalping and maybe some sand to smooth it out). There are a couple members on here that maintain their lawns with a rotary over 1.5" and looks great, but I'm sure they had to put some work first to get there just like everyone else using a reel. For now like everyone has suggested, make sure you are fertilizing, watering and mowing frequently. stolons are a good thing but will get out of control if you don't manage it. Right now I feel you might be stuck unless you scalp or raise your mowing height a bit to let it green up evenly.


Thanks! So is right now a bad time to dethatch the yard? Also when can I scalp and level out my yard again? And does it have to be Sand or can it be dirt? I'm on a hill, so I cant flatten it out, but I'd love to get rid of the unevenness that causes my lawnmower to jump around.


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

Go for it! Scalp, detach, scalp and then sand it. Warning, it can take up to 30 days for it to recover fully and you will want to keep it fertilized and hydrated for a faster recovery. Right now I can vertticut and be back to normal in 5-7 days. I have detached as late as mid October and it came back within 10 days. I can also scalp and sand and the lawn would recover with 14 days. The thing is that my lawn is already trained for this and recovers much quicker than yours would. I would say expect 14-21 days for it to recover from a detach and 21-30 days to recover from a detach, scalp and leveling. These are rough estimates, but if it fills in sooner, then that's great. I wouldn't do a major tear down past September 31 tho.
As for using sand or topsoil or a mix, it depends. For leveling, there is "nothing" wrong with topsoil, but Bermuda will grow through sand faster than through dirt. Sand is also much easier to spread. 
With slopes and hills, topsoil does a better job of holding in place than sand does when it rains hard.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Thanks for your reply! So if I want to I can dethatch now just temporary until I level later in a month or 2? And if I dethatch now, what else should I do directly after?


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Not sure if I got the right answer to a previous question, but I'm not sure what to do with this... Just mowed my yard and am not sure if I should pull it or keep fertilizing and the grass will grow, or add seed the grass will grow. I'm mowing at 1.5 inch with a regular mower.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

I have it in a lot of places.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Suaverc118 said:


>


Thanks for putting up a lot of pictures. To my eye, it looks like you've got a lot of dead growth, whether it be from lack of water, or just old grass, but you've got enough healthy grass that a recovery would be pretty easy if you decide to use a power rake to dethatch, or do it manually. I'm not sure how much turf you have, so choose your method depending on your wallet and stamina  I rented a power rake to do my yard prep for my renovation for $65 for the day. Well worth it.

If it were me, I'd dethatch, and pound it with fertilizer for the rest of the growing season. Heck, I'd even suggest you get in on the PGR group buy to encourage some lateral growth, which has the benefit of reducing the height of the grass and frequency you have to cut. You've got enough healthy grass to get it to recover quickly, and there's enough time left in the season to get it recovered by October. Don't forget that if you're planning on putting down a pre-emergent for winter (and why wouldn't you?) that you'll want to do that AFTER you aerate.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> Suaverc118 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Thanks for your help. Is there any PGR brand you would recommend?

So, are you suggesting first dethatch and then spread out PGR and then fertilize it? I understand to put down pre-emergent after aerating, so do I aerate End of october beginning of November? And what brand of pre-emergent would you recommend?
Sorry for all the questions.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

No need to apologize for asking questions, because that's why we're all here: to help each other, and to share the knowledge that we have. I've always said that the only dumb question is the one that's not asked.

After rethinking your situation, I'd hold off on the PGR. There's a good thread in the forum about PGR, and you'll want to read up on that. You'll also want to make sure that you've got a good sprayer to apply the product with. Regardless of whether or not you choose to get some PGR, I'd still recommend that you get a good sprayer setup that will help you with *all* of your chemical applications in the yard, be it PGR, insecticide or pre/post emergents.

To get on your weed control program, in your area (Austin, right?) you'll want to put down the PreE around mid September, beginning of October. Surflan is one product that's pretty affordable, and works well with St. Augustine. I've used it a few times with good success. Another product that you'll want to use is Prodiamine.  Here's a link to that product. Others have had good success with Dithiopyr 40 WSB, which can also be purchased off of Amazon, or domyown.com. What's going to work out best for you is dependent upon what types of weeds that you see growing in your yard. The thing about PreE is that it's going to help prevent the weeds you see from coming back, and *it's going to cost you far less to get on a good PreE program, than spraying and mowing them when they've already grown. *

One more thing to keep in mind, with your bermuda grass, the cool thing is that you can use glyphosate on weeds that come up while the grass is dormant. Use this at your own discretion.

BTW, I heard that Franklin's BBQ caught fire. What's the word on that?


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Thanks a lot for the great info.

So why do you feel I should hold off on the PGR? Should I just detach and fertilize and don't seed? Putting the PGR out is pretty much overseeing correct?

Another issue I've been trying to figure out is should I level out my sloped yard or not. I have so many dips and unevenness that it's been tough to mow evenly without scalping. I know it's a lot of work and I'm scared about that. So I guess that is something else I need to keep in mind d when doing all of this.

As far as Franklin's, it caught fire the Saturday we had that storm come in. I ha ENT heard much other than it's salvageable. So maybe they will open sooner than later. Have you ever been?


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

PGR is not overseeding, it's a plant growth regulator. There's a great thread about PGR that you should read over. Overseeding is where you broadcast more seed on your existing yard, which would bring in new growth. In your case, since you're unsure about the cultivar of grass that you have, it would be akin to throwing darts at a dart board, and not knowing what kind of result you'd come up with. With that being said, it's not uncommon for owners of established bermuda yards to overseed with perennial rye grass (PRG, don't get these two confused )so their lawn stays green through the winter months.

In your situation, I'm suggesting that the best solution would be to strengthen the stand of turf that you already have, and that would come via getting rid of the dead grass, and giving your living grass some soil real estate to re-grow, and thicken up before you stress it out with a scalp. When most people undertake leveling projects, their turf is very healthy, and it allows it to rebound quicker from the scalp, and the added sand that is applied, which effectively lowers the height that the crown of the plant has to attain in order to produce new growth. By getting your grass healthy, I think you'd have a better chance at getting a better result by dethatching, waiting a few weeks, then taking on a leveling project.

As a caveat, our grass type is a vigorous grower in the summer, but keep in mind that there's really only about a month left of good hot weather that would be optimal for this to take place. Dethatching, nurturing the grass back to health, and then aerating and putting down a PreE... well that's a lot of work, and I'm retired. I don't know if I'd be able to get all of that done by the first of October. Just remember that our lawns didn't get into the condition overnight, and the results that we want aren't going to happen overnight either.

As for Franklin's, I haven't been; just have heard great things about his food, and enjoyed his videos. I'm a big smoking fan, and love good BBQ. If people are willing to start lining up in the pre-dawn hours for your product, there's got to be a reason for it.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Awesome, I guess I can wait for the scalping process then. I like the look of a 1.5 inch cut, but 2 inch makes the yard look more leveled. I don't want my grass taller than that, although for some reason my neighbor behind me has lawn that grows so thick and tall, I just don't get it. I feel like when our homes were built they were by different landscapers, because I feel like my leveling was bad and don't have a thick layer of dirt. I have a lot of stolons.

So I'll take your advice and dethatch(find a good dethatch to rent) and fertilize.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Let us know how things work out!


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

Well said colonel! Yes detach and mow it 1/4"-1/2" below your desired HOC which should be a good start.


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## slomo (Jun 22, 2017)

My lawn in OKC likes it taller say 2-3 inches height of cut. Do you have hard pack clay soil like I do? Remember most responses are not from Texas or OKC. They have different conditions than we do.

slomo


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Iriasj2009 said:


> Well said colonel! Yes detach and mow it 1/4"-1/2" below your desired HOC which should be a good start.


+1


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

slomo said:


> My lawn in OKC likes it taller say 2-3 inches height of cut. Do you have hard pack clay soil like I do? Remember most responses are not from Texas or OKC. They have different conditions than we do.
> 
> slomo


I believe that's the case with our soil. But I also think the layer of dirt put down was kinda thinking too


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## Concretestorm (May 21, 2017)

Suaverc118 said:


> Awesome, I guess I can wait for the scalping process then. I like the look of a 1.5 inch cut, but 2 inch makes the yard look more leveled. I don't want my grass taller than that, although for some reason my neighbor behind me has lawn that grows so thick and tall, I just don't get it. I feel like when our homes were built they were by different landscapers, because I feel like my leveling was bad and don't have a thick layer of dirt. I have a lot of stolons.
> 
> So I'll take your advice and dethatch(find a good dethatch to rent) and fertilize.


I have a Dethatcher you can use if your not too far away. What part of town are you located?


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Concretestorm said:


> Suaverc118 said:
> 
> 
> > Awesome, I guess I can wait for the scalping process then. I like the look of a 1.5 inch cut, but 2 inch makes the yard look more leveled. I don't want my grass taller than that, although for some reason my neighbor behind me has lawn that grows so thick and tall, I just don't get it. I feel like when our homes were built they were by different landscapers, because I feel like my leveling was bad and don't have a thick layer of dirt. I have a lot of stolons.
> ...


You live in Austin too???


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

I believe he has said he "lives just west of Weird" :lol:


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

J_nick said:


> I believe he has said he "lives just west of Weird" :lol:


It's kinda weird lol


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## Concretestorm (May 21, 2017)

Suaverc118 said:


> Concretestorm said:
> 
> 
> > Suaverc118 said:
> ...


I live in western Travis County.


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