# Perennial Rye



## Dooman185 (Jul 6, 2018)

I live in Northern Minnesota. I am thinking of renovating am I to far north to do all perennial rye?


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Good video on varieties used in Minnesota from University of Minnesota turgrass program. You'll hear around the 1 min 20 sec mark he talks about PRG not being very winter hardy at all after a few Minnesota winters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=ahDeKTSE_H0

He also explains the brown stalks leftover from PRG after you mow the seed heads down. It leaves dead brown stems that aren't easy to get rid of. I have that right now.


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

I'm struggling with the same brown stalks, makes me never want to plant PRG again


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

Any reason you don't want to do a bluegrass mix? Cost is about the same after calculating the required seed rate. Several out there germinate before day 10 and is guaranteed to be winter hardy over PRG.


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## Dooman185 (Jul 6, 2018)

Which bluegrass would that be? I did some patching with Pennington perennial rye and I was really happy with the look of it. But I was worried about longevity and winter hardiness.


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## Killsocket (Mar 16, 2018)

I found this to be helpful. Some information on PRG. It has a water use bias slant.

http://www.ci.chanhassen.mn.us/DocumentCenter/View/4789/Choosing-Lawn-Grasses-UMN-Extension?bidId=


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

Dooman185 said:


> Which bluegrass would that be? I did some patching with Pennington perennial rye and I was really happy with the look of it. But I was worried about longevity and winter hardiness.


You could do a ryegrass overseed every 3 years or so to compete with winter kill.

Any of the improved elite type bluegrass's should germinate rather quick.



Killsocket said:


> I found this to be helpful. Some information on PRG. It has a water use bias slant.
> 
> http://www.ci.chanhassen.mn.us/DocumentCenter/View/4789/Choosing-Lawn-Grasses-UMN-Extension?bidId=


I think that article isn't giving bluegrass enough credit, shallow roots seem like a watering or soil issue. Disease resistance is another one I don't agree with. These improved bluegrass types are very superior in my mind once established. But best practice still needs to be used or it will always revert back.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

I'm ready to nuke my lawn this fall because the rye grass in it STILL looks brown and stemmy.

Some of it is still throwing seeds too...


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

Sinclair said:


> I'm ready to nuke my lawn this fall because the rye grass in it STILL looks brown and stemmy.
> 
> Some of it is still throwing seeds too...


You could use a pgr to suppress the seed heads and slow down the growth.

Wimbledon is 100% rye, very cool read. https://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/atoz/grass_courts.html


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

I don't mind the brown stalks too much. Once the summer heat hits and stays they seem to go away quicker. A lower mow might help.


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## Dooman185 (Jul 6, 2018)

I am not sure what to do in two summers my lawn has went from poop to very lush and thick!! Problem is lot's of quack grass not sure if it will go away over time with more overseeding or start over in my front yard!


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

pennstater2005 said:


> I don't mind the brown stalks too much. Once the summer heat hits and stays they seem to go away quicker. A lower mow might help.


I've done a couple low mows at around 2". Maybe if I see a cool and wet window of weather approaching I'll go really low and then just live with the results.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

ABC123 said:


> Sinclair said:
> 
> 
> > I'm ready to nuke my lawn this fall because the rye grass in it STILL looks brown and stemmy.
> ...


I've read up on Proxy and Primo as a tandem for suppressing seed heads, but all the information is for suppressing it in Poa Annua.

Do you know of any sites that show rates and timing to suppress seed heads in desirable turf?


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Sinclair said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't mind the brown stalks too much. Once the summer heat hits and stays they seem to go away quicker. A lower mow might help.
> ...


Yeah if you can get low enough they won't come back and the rest of the turf grows over it. Trouble is not stressing it too much right now.

I'll probably try the same thing. Wait for a nice cool, damp day and bring it down.


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

Sinclair said:


> I've read up on Proxy and Primo as a tandem for suppressing seed heads, but all the information is for suppressing it in Poa Annua.
> 
> Do you know of any sites that show rates and timing to suppress seed heads in desirable turf?


Yeah it can be used prior to seed down to help battle poa from what I've read too. Only way to know how much to use is the big question, trial and error is the only true way to see how it reacts and what application frequency works for your schedule.


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## Dooman185 (Jul 6, 2018)

How long would I have to mow at two inches to get rid of it?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Dooman185 said:


> How long would I have to mow at two inches to get rid of it?


Honestly I think it's a lost cause I'm still getting seed heads a month after they started showing up. You'll just mow low then get more seed stalks with no grass to hide it. Mine seem to be going away now slowly.

And I'm pretty sure you can get seed heads at any height


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Dooman185 said:
> 
> 
> > How long would I have to mow at two inches to get rid of it?
> ...


True. I mowed low and noticed less brown stalks but they're still there! They take forever to rot away.


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## Dooman185 (Jul 6, 2018)

Ok I am getting scared off of the perennial rye. I am looking on seed superstore what is a good combo of blue Grass for northern Minnesota?


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

Dooman185 said:


> Ok I am getting scared off of the perennial rye. I am looking on seed superstore what is a good combo of blue Grass for northern Minnesota?


I'd get the 3 way blend. Midnight, bewitched and award are all very good rated KBG.

https://www.seedsuperstore.com/catalog/p-100006/ss1100-bluegrass-blend


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## Hieronymus (May 22, 2018)

A good height to mow PRG is 1 inch or even lower. I mow at 19mm that's about 0.75 inch. We have got one of de biggest droughts ever here and it's very warm for weeks now. And it's still doing fine. We have cold winters as well, even snow on the lawn and it's still looks fine in spring. And it handles kids playing around as well.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

If you're near Minneapolis, go to your local seed supplier. I almost drove to these guys a month ago when I was in Cumberland, WI, because they had Bewitched in stock, have good prices and are local. I"m sure they'd have great recommendations for you: http://www.twincityseed.com/lawn.html

The Midnight, Bewitched, Award recommendation is a good one. For a 3-way mix, many have also had success with Bewitched, Prosperity, Award.

Midnight is always a safe bet for our northern regions, but can grow faster than Bewitched, Prosperity, and Award.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Dooman185 said:


> Ok I am getting scared off of the perennial rye. I am looking on seed superstore what is a good combo of blue Grass for northern Minnesota?


If you're near Minneapolis, go to your local seed supplier. I almost drove to these guys a month ago when I was in Cumberland, WI, because they had Bewitched in stock, have good prices and are local. I"m sure they'd have great recommendations for you: http://www.twincityseed.com/lawn.html

The Midnight, Bewitched, Award recommendation is a good one. For a 3-way blend, many have also had success with Bewitched, Prosperity, Award.

Midnight is always a safe bet for our northern regions, but can grow faster than Bewitched, Prosperity, and Award.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

I had high hopes for this seed blend last fall.

Now it just looks like ***


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Hieronymus said:


> A good height to mow PRG is 1 inch or even lower. I mow at 19mm that's about 0.75 inch. We have got one of de biggest droughts ever here and it's very warm for weeks now. And it's still doing fine. We have cold winters as well, even snow on the lawn and it's still looks fine in spring. And it handles kids playing around as well.


Ive thought about low cutting the rye to lower the "stemmy-ness", not sure if it would work or not. Problem is i couldnt do that low without just scalping parts of my yard. A few sections have HOA tree's that have massive roots/trunk flare at the bottom that keep the ground from being very level.

I bet i could get away with a 2" cut though, not sure if it would help me or not...

Im half way tempted to throw down .5N of Urea on my back yard to see if i can get it to grow out the dead bits faster. Since our heat wave is ending and we'll be back mostly in the 80's again.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Hieronymus said:
> 
> 
> > A good height to mow PRG is 1 inch or even lower. I mow at 19mm that's about 0.75 inch. We have got one of de biggest droughts ever here and it's very warm for weeks now. And it's still doing fine. We have cold winters as well, even snow on the lawn and it's still looks fine in spring. And it handles kids playing around as well.
> ...


It 100% works at .75" I get zero seed stalks


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

I keep mine at 1" in the summer and have no seed stalk issues. I'll lower it in the fall when things cool down. We're are 94+ for probably 8 -10 weeks straight during July and August. The only issues I've had is fungus and it's probably my fault for starting the fungicide too late.


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

Are both of you using a growth regulator? That could also prevent seed heads


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

I use primo but if I was trying to prevent seed heads I would lean towards proxy


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## rrmiller32 (Feb 20, 2018)

I am not yet. The summer heat has kept my lawn from growing very fast. It barely needs a cut once a week but I usually cut it twice to keep the stripes fresh. LOL I actually want it to grow faster to grow out through the treated fungus areas. I will use it in the fall once growth speeds up.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

b0nk3rs said:


> I had high hopes for this seed blend last fall.
> 
> Now it just looks like @ss


The remaining rye in my lawn looks this way too. I keep bouncing around between nuking the lawn and doing pure KBG with same seed as last year, trying to selectively kill the rye with MSM, or trying to suppress seedheads in the spring.


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## LIgrass (May 26, 2017)

Here's my input on PRG vs KBG after 2 years.

Establishment (ease of)-
PRG - 10
KBG - 5

Color - (they are equal mid summer)
PRG - 10
KBG - 9

1st year weed % - (higher = less weeds)
PRG - 10
KBG - 6

Density
PRG - 9 (PRG can look as dense)
KBG - 10

Winter Hardiness (SE NY)
PRG - 9
KBG - 9

Spring/Early Summer turf quality
PRG - 9.5
KBG - 9.0

Mid-Summer/Early Fall turf quality
PRG - 5
KBG - 8

Drought tolerance-
PRG - 6
KBG - 10

Shade tolerance
PRG - 4
KBG - 9

Striping ability-(nothing I've seen stripes like PRG, it can really dazzle with its shininess)
PRG - 10
KBG - 8

Spreading ability -(tillering vs rhizomes are not even close)
PRG - 2
KBG - 10

Here's my take on this. PRG is not a great summer performer. We've had record drought conditions from June to July and the PRG struggled a little bit despite irrigation. I think this is contributing to more stalkiness as the stressed plants are sending up more seedheads this year. The lower you cut though the less stalkiness you should see. A PGR could help reduce the seeding. KBG also has an ugly seeding period but it's only a couple of weeks in May.

PRG is a million times easier to establish and will give you a better looking lawn right away and maybe even the entire first year. It germinates so fast and dominates from the start which reduces poa and most weeds. KBG will be more of a weed battle the first year.

PRG is noticeably a 1/2 to full shade darker most times of the year. It's the darkest turf in my area. Right now my PRG & KBG are about even color but the KBG looks much denser & nicer due to the brown PRG seed stalks.

If you are growing it in full sun and cut below 2-2.5", PRG is really hard to beat. It will almost certainly look better than KBG the entire first year.
If you have shady conditions (1-5 hr sun areas), PRG will be a bad choice. 
These are my 2 favorite cool season grasses, but beyond the 1st year I believe that KBG is a slightly better grass overall (at least in my conditions).


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

Sinclair said:


> b0nk3rs said:
> 
> 
> > I had high hopes for this seed blend last fall.
> ...


Any idea what varieties of PRG you have?


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

Are the stalks a forever issue?


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## markymark423 (Jun 10, 2020)

kolbasz said:


> Are the stalks a forever issue?


I would like to know this as well, because my new lawn (about 1 year old) has many sections with really unsightly stalks that still remain. However, my lawn has been thickening up nicely all season. I am hoping the bluegrass kinda chokes out the PRG. I think I remember reading something about stressed or (not thick?) lawns produce more seeds and stalks because plant is in survival mode. I am hoping that as the lawn continues to thicken it will produce less and less seed stalks.

I do plan to try and mow down to 2", at least for 1 mow in the fall to clean it up...then go back to around 2.5".


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## thin_concrete (Sep 11, 2020)

ABC123 said:


> Sinclair said:
> 
> 
> > I'm ready to nuke my lawn this fall because the rye grass in it STILL looks brown and stemmy.
> ...


As a tennis (and budding lawn geek), that was a cool read. However, AELTG has vastly more resources than most of us. i.e. - 9 tons of seed used annually!!! Yikes!


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