# Yukon vs p77?



## Bbq freakshow (Mar 9, 2019)

What up lawn freaks! Going to kill off existing common bermuda/ Frankenstein lawn this spring. I'm in se va and will be seeding so I'm stuck with ordering p77 or yukon. Plan to reel mow and maintain around 1/2" or so. Leaning on yukon due to better cold tolerances but rarely hear of anyone with yukon. What's do the pros here think?


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## Crabbychas (Apr 25, 2018)

I've been on the same fence myself but between Princess 77 and Riviera. Decided on Riviera after seeing that Princess 77 has terrible cold tolerance. I'm in Florida so it doesn't get terribly cold but we get a couple freezes a year. The other data seems to show that riviera has a statistically significant edge over princess 77, but yukon and princess are about the same. That far north though, you might want to go with the yukon since it has such great cold tolerance. Curious as to why you aren't considering riviera?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@Tellycoleman has Yukon.
@J_nick has riveria. They might be able to chime in on the two.


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## Bbq freakshow (Mar 9, 2019)

I'd consider riviera but looks to be very limited seed supply this year. Would it be superior to yukon in my climate?


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## Crabbychas (Apr 25, 2018)

I just ordered mine off of seed ranch. One of the few places I've seen it for sale.


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## Bbq freakshow (Mar 9, 2019)

Yeah I believe that's only place I saw riviera. Look through j_nicks riviera Reno thread and was pretty impressed! Lawn looking&#128076;


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## Way2low01 (Mar 9, 2019)

Mine is a combination of Yukon and Royal Bengal. I don't have any complaints. I'm in eastern NC. I seeded with La Prima XD.


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## Bbq freakshow (Mar 9, 2019)

Nice! Maybe I should change thread to yukon vs Riviera lol.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Bbq freakshow said:


> Yeah I believe that's only place I saw riviera. Look through j_nicks riviera Reno thread and was pretty impressed! Lawn looking👌


Thanks man I appreciate it! It was a lot of hard work but it was definitely worth it.

For you location I would choose Yukon over P77 due to the cold hardiness. I love my Riviera and would recommend it to anyone wanting to do a grow in. Im not sure why it is sold out for 2019 but if it were me I'd look at Yukon vs Monaco Bermudagrass. They are advertising it as a more improved Riviera.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Riviera might be d/c in favor of Monaco


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Way2low01 said:


> Mine is a combination of Yukon and Royal Bengal. I don't have any complaints. I'm in eastern NC. I seeded with La Prima XD.


Woah, I just noticed your other post, and it's good to see another RB lawn on the forum! I thought I was the only breakout from the Riveria/P77 crowd.


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## Bbq freakshow (Mar 9, 2019)

Yall have me intrigued by this monaco stuff. Never heard of it but looks like it fits the bill.
A little pricey compared to yukon. Is it worth the extra money? Anybody have any real experience with it in their lawn?


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Bbq freakshow said:


> Yall have me intrigued by this monaco stuff. Never heard of it but looks like it fits the bill.
> A little pricey compared to yukon. Is it worth the extra money? Anybody have any real experience with it in their lawn?


@Bbq freakshow You may want to look into Maya bermuda. Seed is available for about $9/lb and it compares well to Riviera and Princess in NTEP.


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## Bbq freakshow (Mar 9, 2019)

Well just went ahead and ordered the riviera
Wish me luck!


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Way2low01 said:


> Mine is a combination of Yukon and Royal Bengal. I don't have any complaints. I'm in eastern NC. I seeded with La Prima XD.


Beautiful lawn.

Do you have any more pics?

I am thinking of trying LaPrima XD in my backyard.


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## Way2low01 (Mar 9, 2019)

ThankS ENC. Here's a few more. I Harley raked and seeded August of 2017. It has filled in very nicely with water and nitrogen. I expect by the end of the summer this year, it will be where I want it. The back yard gets a bit of shade from the wood line, but with my dog back there I'm not too worried about it anyways.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

@@Way2low01 beautiful lawn and home!!!


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

What do you cut that size of lawn with?

And what HOC. Looks very good for rotary!


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

ENC_Lawn said:


> What do you cut that size of lawn with?
> 
> And what HOC. Looks very good for rotary!


From the width of the tire tracks I'd say a 61" Outlaw zero turn :mrgreen:


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## Way2low01 (Mar 9, 2019)

J_nick said:


> ENC_Lawn said:
> 
> 
> > What do you cut that size of lawn with?
> ...


Lol right on the money! I start at 1.5" and end at 2" through the season. Would love a reel mower but that's not happening anytime soon.


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## Bbq freakshow (Mar 9, 2019)

Sadly I was told by a distributor they had riviera in when they actually didn't. They are telling me the new replacement variety is rio. Anyone one familiar with this cultivar? I'm looking for best cold hearty seeded variety for southern virgina coast.


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## Bbq freakshow (Mar 9, 2019)

Crabbychas said:


> I've been on the same fence myself but between Princess 77 and Riviera. Decided on Riviera after seeing that Princess 77 has terrible cold tolerance. I'm in Florida so it doesn't get terribly cold but we get a couple freezes a year. The other data seems to show that riviera has a statistically significant edge over princess 77, but yukon and princess are about the same. That far north though, you might want to go with the yukon since it has such great cold tolerance. Curious as to why you aren't considering riviera?


Fyi it looks like Pennington has come out with Arden 15 which a replacement for princess 77. It is supposed to be all around better and cold hearty version of the p77. Only thing holding me back from it is much higher price.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

@Way2low01

For such a big lawn your results from seed are very impressive!

Did you water the entire 2.5... acres or did you in some areas throw down the seed and let nature and weather take it from there?


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## Way2low01 (Mar 9, 2019)

When I had my house built, I had a water spigot installed on all four sides of the house knowing I would be runnning timers and sprinklers for the seeding process. I priced out all the meterial to install an Irrigation system as I installed one at my old house and it was a god send in the summer months with the fescue lawn. However, when I started calculating how much my water bill would be irritating, I decided against it. I instead built numerous sprinklers using Rain Bird rotary heads and coupled with lots of hoses and four (4) timers attached to my spigots, I watered the immediate areas around my house and let Mother Nature take care of the remaining yard.

This was my old TTTF lawn back in VA.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

So I have been reading but I haven't responded to this post. In my opinion you absolutely need to go with Yukon. Or consider sprigging with a cold tolerant variety.
You live in Va. You get snow. I live in Nashville and I get snow. You will get a lot of damage with princes77 over the winter. I absolutely love my Yukon. It has advantages and disadvantages. 
1) I believe Yukon has the finest blade of the 3 top seeded varieties ( 77-Riviera - Yukon) if you use PGR it will get very very fine.
2) it's darker than 77. About the same color as Riviera. 
3) If you have kids or dogs it has one of the best and fastest Divot repair. 
4) I had absolutely NO spring dead spot last year which was first winter after seeding. . Grass is coming out of dormancy now but I don't expect any this year either.
5) Looks great cut below 1/2 inch
6) Can get absolutely superb PGR regulation without chlrosis!

Disadvantages 
1) Slower to establish from seed- you may not get full coverage within 30-45 days after seeding. Yukon starts slow but when established it takes off.
2) Sensitive with herbicides. This makes establishment even harder. You absolutely can not use the standard Quinclorac on Yukon. Even at small doses Yukon will shrivel up and die. During establishment Quicksilver will be your friend. Always test new herbicides on a small area first. I don't blanket spray anything but Celsius.
3) Very obvious difference between Yukon and common. If you don't get a complete kill of your existing grass it will stick out
4) Can be prone to fungus. ( May just be my area)
5) Not sure if this is an advantage or disadvantage but if you ever want to change and get another type of Bermuda or sod then spray Quinclorac and it's Done. Dead !! Better than glyphosate dead.

So in conclusion if you choose Yukon you absolutely must take the extra effort to completely kill everything. Absolutely everything from your lawn. You will absolutely be limited in what you can put down once you seed to prevent weeds and your first year (No matter what you choose) will be a battle of the weeds. I didn't do a complete kill and I paid for it. @J_nick did a much better job than I did killing off exiting grass. I seeded 2 weeks earlier than he did (He used Riviera)and he had full coverage a month before I did. 
That was mainly due to a poor kill resulting in weed pressure.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

@Tellycoleman here's the data from 2013-17. Looks like P77 has the finer leaf @ 5.2 then Riviera @ 5.1 with Yukon scoring a 4.9. Color is about the same with all 3 with only a .1 variance.


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## Duplex Dave (Jul 14, 2018)

I really love my P77, but even in San Diego it will go dormant. I overseeded with rye for the 1st time this past winter and was very happy to keep it green, just sprayed Image today to kill off the rye. Mowing with a reel mower at about .5" or less. Blades are fine and the color is an amazing dark green compared to most of the Bermuda around here. Probably going to try some growth control this year because after fertilizing it needs to be mowed 2-3 times a week during the prime growing time.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

The thing about studies is that they are like politics they have one for everything. 
So here is a study that states otherwise.




Either way. I think both studies showed poor winter performance in p77.
You are higher north than me. 
Your choice should be Yukon or Riviera 
Or better yet sprig some patriot Bermuda


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Sprig some Tahoma! That stuff is ridiculously cold hardy compared to other bermuda


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## athenot (Mar 25, 2019)

Tellycoleman said:


> Disadvantages
> (...)
> 2) Sensitive with herbicides. This makes establishment even harder. You absolutely can not use the standard Quinclorac on Yukon. Even at small doses Yukon will shrivel up and die. During establishment Quicksilver will be your friend. Always test new herbicides on a small area first. I don't blanket spray anything but Celsius.


I was curious about that. I use Quinclorac on my Z. Zenith side but if memory serves, I also used it on my B. Yukon side. Went digging and you're right! Apparently Yukon will sustain damage especially when newly seeded. I do tend to underdose my applications so perhaps that's why mine fared well.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/weed-technology/article/response-of-four-improved-seeded-bermudagrass-cultivars-to-postemergence-herbicides-during-seeded-establishment/74160A924C628C4E90AC8DE8726B57A0

PS: first post, finally stopped lurking.


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## Bbq freakshow (Mar 9, 2019)

@Tellycoleman
I've ruled out p77. I'm in coastal south east va we hardly get snow. If we do its like an inch and melts the next day. Could probably get away with it but not gonna chance it. Only thing i dislike about yukon is the herbicide sensitivity. So that had me really leaning toward the Riviera which as we all know is discontinued. At this point I'm strongly considering Rio which is being touted as the replacement for riviera. This is all the info I have on it though.@Tellycoleman


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

I just left Johnston Seed Company, producer of Riviera, and they confirmed Riviera is discontinued and Monaco will be taking its place.


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## Bbq freakshow (Mar 9, 2019)

@J_nick Yep looks like I'm gonna be a Guinea pig for monaco as I have 25lbs heading my way.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Bbq freakshow said:


> @J_nick Yep looks like I'm gonna be a Guinea pig for monaco as I have 25lbs heading my way.


From what I've read it should be a great grass. Good luck, I'll be following your progress


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## Bbq freakshow (Mar 9, 2019)

@j_nick just hoping it turns out half as good as yours lol


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