# Prodiamine Questions



## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

This will be my first time using Prodiamine this year after I recently stepped up my sprayer game to the Chapin 20V Backpack sprayer. I ordered it yesterday from Do My Own (FYI- 10% off Pre-Em right now) and have been researching the spray rates for my lawn.

First, I'll define the needed variables:
Lawn Size=7k sq. feet
Backpack Sprayer= 4 gallons
Control= 6 months

I've used the prodiamine calculator listed on this forum and received the result below:
"You need to apply 2.96oz over 7k square feet. Your grass can't handle more than 5.81 oz over a calendar year"
So, quick math would say 2.96/7= 0.422 oz per gallon per 1k sq. feet. This would be in actual ounces (scale), and not fluid ounces, correct?

Also, assuming I apply at this same rate 2x year for annual coverage, 2.96X2= 5.92oz, which would be ABOVE the rate for a full calendar year (5.81).

Looking at the label, I could also infer that if 0.83 ounces per 1k sq. feet is the maximum bermuda can handle, I could take that rate and divide by 2 (# of apps in a year) to get 0.415 oz per 1k sq. feet.

So, I have arrived at two different application rates, albeit potentially splitting hairs: 0.422 oz/gallon, and 0.415 oz/gallon. Which would be correct?

Also, bonus points to anyone who can suggest a post-emergent that I can mix in with my Prodiamine application to take care of some winter weeds that have developed. Thanks!


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

Weight in oz is correct. Either .422 or .415 will work. Your talking about 11.816 compared to 11.62 grams a .196 gram difference. No reason to over think this. Your grass will not wilt and die if you apply more than the annual max.

A common practice of turf managers is to add an ester threeway mix with the pre-m. You can also use an amine threeway mix but the kill will be much slower. MSM is also a popular herbicide to use for winter broadleafs


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

cnet24 said:


> Also, bonus points to anyone who can suggest a post-emergent that I can mix in with my Prodiamine application to take care of some winter weeds that have developed. Thanks!


Any idea what the weeds are?

If it's a very small amount, hand brush with round-up.

Like, high leverage said, a basic three way amine or ester will work, but you'll have better chances with an ester.

2,4-D Amine Examples
Trimec Classic (2,4-D, MCPA, Dicamba) - Smallest bottle is 1 gallon
Trimec Southern (2,4-D, MCPA, Dicamba) Different percentages than classic - smallest bottle is 1qt
Ortho Weed B Gon (2,4-D, MCPA, Dicmaba) - 1qt
Ortho Weed B Gon for Crabgrass (2,4-D, Quinclorac, Dicamba) - 1qt

2,4-D Ester Example
Speedzone (carfentrazone, 2,4-D ester, dicamba) - 1 gallon

Non-2,4-D Ester
Tri-Power
MCPA, MCPP, Dicamba

There are plenty of other options but I'd pick either Trimec Classic, Speedzone, or Trimec Southern, depending on the size of your yard. I'm going to speculate the quart size bottle may be better suited, since there is an annual limit to amount of 2,4-D per acre, per year.

Also, keep in mind 2,4-D can volatize depending on the temperature and dicamba can damage ornamentals and trees.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

cnet24 said:


> ...Looking at the label, I could also infer that if 0.83 ounces per 1k sq. feet is the maximum bermuda can handle, I could take that rate and divide by 2 (# of apps in a year) to get 0.415 oz per 1k sq. feet...


This is what I do. I have had good success applying half the annual max in the spring and half in the fall.


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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

Let's see how this new tagging system works...

@high leverage thanks for the verification. Figured it was worth confirming before I blanket spray the lawn.

@Movingshrub mostly Poa, especially along my fence lines from trimmer damage. Looks like my fall pre-em came a little too late. I have some leftover Ortho, but I don't believe it has Poa listed in the affected weeds section. Also, I'm hesitant to apply on dormant bermuda per the label. Might need to go with another option that you listed out. Thanks for the list!

@Ware thanks for the confirmation!


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I have mixed Prodiamine with Celsius before to kill any weeds that were left over after the Spring scalp with pretty good success. Celsius will kill damn near everything except sedges which you could throw in a dose of Certainty to get those too. You shouldn't have any issues mixing all three chemicals together.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

cnet24 said:


> Let's see how this new tagging system works...
> 
> @high leverage thanks for the verification. Figured it was worth confirming before I blanket spray the lawn.
> 
> ...


None of the above recommendations are going to pick-up poa. Celsius might since it's not listed for use on cool season grasses. I just haven't used it for such.

For that your options are going to be Monument, Katana, Revolver, Certainty, Blindside, and Princep.
Certainty will work on young poa, but not well on tilered poa. My understanding is Monument is one of most effective options.
I used a combo of Monument and Princep. Others may chime in otherwise. If all else fails, ask @thegrassfactor


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

I've used Prodiamine/Celsius together and didn't notice any negative side effects, but won't do it again.

I feel it's best to apply pre and post separately. They need to be applied in different ways with diffrent spray tips for optimum results.

*Pre needs to be applied with the goal of product reaching the soil over 100% of the 7k and then getting washed in soon after for the weed barrier to be created.

*Post needs to be applied as a fine mist only on the weed plants and typically needs to stay on the plant as long as possible. Spot spraying is recommended, you would be wasting a significant amount of product doing a blanket application over 7k unless your lawn is completely covered in weeds.

PS. I've killed Poa with celcius at the high rate.


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## Llano Estacado (Jul 18, 2017)

I applied prodiamine this weekend. I had planned to dethatch/verticut upon green up. This has got me to wondering if I should I hold off on that since I used prodiamine or am I still good to go?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Llano Estacado said:


> I applied prodiamine this weekend. I had planned to dethatch/verticut upon green up. This has got me to wondering if I should I hold off on that since I used prodiamine or am I still good to go?


You should be fine. I would just try to avoid going too aggressive and disturbing the soil profile.

What rate did you apply? And did you water it in?


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## Llano Estacado (Jul 18, 2017)

I used 2 oz mixed in 4 gallons of water over 5k square feet and watered in it later the same day.


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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

One more question as it related to timing- checking the 10 day weather forecast, I'm seeing climbing temps to the mid/upper 50s. This Saturday looks to be a prime application time, as rain is predicted near 1/2 inch on Sunday which is needed to activate the Prodiamine. I'm also starting to see the lawn companies apply in my neighborhood, which is also making me jumpy. I've included soil temps from the closest weather station, and temps have jumped since the last reading (this reading is current as of this morning).Thoughts?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

cnet24 said:


> One more question as it related to timing...


With Prodiamine I think it's better to be a few weeks early than a few weeks late, and we're talking about a product than can be effective for 3-6 months, depending on your application rate - so what's a few weeks among friends  . The key is to have an active pre-e barrier at the times when weed germination is most active in your area.

When was your last application, and what was the rate? If you don't have an active pre-e barrier, I would say there is no time like the present.

Around here the lawn companies start pretty early for my taste, but I think that is logistics more than anything - they simply can't get to all their lawns at the "perfect" time. I think they also rely on split applications, so timing is a little less critical.


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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

@Ware my last application was in the September timeframe for Winter weeds with a granular Pendimethalin product. This will be my first app with Prodiamine.

Agreed with your thoughts on being earlier than later on a product that has a longer lifespan. I'm more leaning to Saturday as well since it seems to be my last weekend with favorable application weather (heavy rain on Sunday).


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

cnet24 said:


> favorable application weather (heavy rain on Sunday).


Heavy rain or heavy rate is not ideal application weather. You want the prodiamine to be absorb by the soil. If it is too heavy of a downpour, it will run off instead to be absorbed. A light rain is great or sprinklers.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Agree with g-man, but you mentioned 1/2" of rain in a previous post - that would be about right if it is a nice slow rain.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

high leverage said:


> Weight in oz is correct. Either .422 or .415 will work. Your talking about 11.816 compared to 11.62 grams a .196 gram difference. No reason to over think this. Your grass will not wilt and die if you apply more than the annual max.
> 
> A common practice of turf managers is to add an ester threeway mix with the pre-m. You can also use an amine threeway mix but the kill will be much slower. MSM is also a popular herbicide to use for winter broadleafs


Out of curiosity, for a commercial sprayer, which is the preferred tank mix for winter broadleaf? Three way ester (big range of options)? Simazine? a sulfonurea herbicide, whethe it be MSM or something else? and why?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@cnet24 Did you apply your pre-em yet, and how did it go? I think the UGA guidance says you should basically be aiming for before March 1st for your area but no harm in earlier.

On a different note - CLEM in cadence count or Tiger Rag a popular song in your house?


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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

@Movingshrub I did end up applying the pre-em on the weekend I detailed and I'm glad I did. Temps (soil and air) have spiked here in Atl and soil temps are now around the 60 degree mark with no cool down in the forecast.

This was my first time applying, and thanks to everyone on this thread. I really have two concerns, however, and time will tell if this was a successful application.

1) It was a little windier that I would have liked it to be for my application. I found myself stopping in periods of a higher gust of winds and trying to time my application. It wasn't blowing super hard, but enough to cause me to stop/go numerous times. Not a big deal, but I'm sure I had some minor drift.

2)Rain. Boy, was our forecast wrong for Sunday. What was forecasted to be "rain up to .5/inch" turned into at least 3 inches. Rained pretty hard for most of the day- so much so, my backyard which has pretty bad drainage issues due to the grade flooded pretty bad. I guess I'll know in a month or so how well I did :lol:


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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

And yes, Tiger rag and CLEM cadence are known songs around this house!


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

cnet24 said:


> @Movingshrub I did end up applying the pre-em on the weekend I detailed and I'm glad I did. Temps (soil and air) have spiked here in Atl and soil temps are now around the 60 degree mark with no cool down in the forecast.
> 
> This was my first time applying, and thanks to everyone on this thread. I really have two concerns, however, and time will tell if this was a successful application.
> 
> ...


I think the goal is less 10MPH in terms of wind. I'm sure you are fine.

In terms of application rate, did you apply at a rate to cover you until fall or a lower rate with the intent of doing split applications?



cnet24 said:


> And yes, Tiger rag and CLEM cadence are known songs around this house!


Glad to hear it! Got my masters degree there in 2007, along with a degree from TN in 2005, and my wife went to Auburn. Lots of orange in our household.


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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

@Movingshrub I applied at half the max rate to get me to the fall. I have thought about spreading a cheap granular made of a different active chemical to make sure my bases are covered, but not sure if that would be overkill.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

cnet24 said:


> @Movingshrub I applied at half the max rate to get me to the fall. I have thought about spreading a cheap granular made of a different active chemical to make sure my bases are covered, but not sure if that would be overkill.


BLUF - Stick with your previous plan before the rain.

Others may assert differently. My $0.02 is to avoid doing that, especially if it's another dinitroaniline herbicide, such as dithiopyr or prodiamine. All of those are going to root prune, as will indaziflam. I'd just roll with your application and apply a post-em for anything that comes up. If for some reason it's really bad, you could apply oxadiazon, but it's definitely not the cheapest product.


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## estcstm3 (Sep 3, 2019)

Are you putting down prodiaminein the spring with the plans of then overseeding in the fall time frame? If so what coverage rate are you using?


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## Rammy1546 (Jan 3, 2020)

@cnet24 Im wondering the same thing if my app today is going to be worth a rip being the Southeast has been just a constant water park! A split app will help with weird situations of run off or windy conditions


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

That's way you run a program that's based on applying twice or four times a year. This way your always covered. Rain and sun either washes away or breaks it down. 
@cnet24


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