# Bermuda - How quick can I get it to spread/fill in?



## beastcivic (Mar 26, 2018)

Hey everyone,

I'm normally a cool season guy, but I'm helping out at my in-laws house, so I need some help with an approach. We're in Charlotte, NC and their backyard is 50% weeds, with maybe 40% Bermuda coverage (it's very patchy), and 10% fescue (they over seeded 2 years ago because they wanted a year long green lawn). Realizing how difficult it'll be for them to keep up with a cool season lawn in a hot climate, they've conceded to allowing Bermuda to take over the back yard. Their yard is not irrigated, it's very flat and gets full sun all day. They don't really want to water their yard (cost is a concern), but the location of the yard to a nearby creek, and the relatively flat yard, the soil holds onto water fairly well after a rainstorm.

Here's my thought: the Bermuda is still dormant (and will stay that way for about a month or more) so I'm tempted to do 2-3 blanket sprays of a low rate of glyophosate to kill off the weeds and fescue (timed about 10-14 days apart). Then scalp it and being spoon feeding the yard with nitrogen (0.25 lb per 1k every 3 weeks or so) after it wakes up, and cut it regularly (at least 2x a week) at 1.5" HOC through the summer.

So here's my questions. Will Bermuda to go from 40% coverage to 100% coverage in one year (or close to it). If so, will the above approach get me there, if not, what should I change. 
Thanks for the help!


----------



## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Considering it gets full sun, I'd say you have a chance of full coverage in one season depending on the amount of nitrogen its being fed, and how often it's being cut.


----------



## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

FYI I'm in Raleigh but I'm seeing green tips on my bermuda. Might be a bit past the window for glyphosate applications. I'd switch to something like MSM, Image, or Speedzone Southern.

You could probably do 0.25 lb nitrogen weekly or 0.5 lb bi-weekly to really push the growth. I would not apply PGR this year since that will shorten the distance between internodes, and you will want to maximize that to get the bermuda to spread further.


----------



## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

I'm kind of in the same situation except I killed off all my weeds last fall and started a pre-m program.

The combination of both has left a lot of barren dirt throughout the winter.

My plan is to push the Bermuda with weekly applications of nitrogen. Around mid May to early June, I plan on harvesting sprigs and filling in any remaining spots.

I've read how prodiamine and dimension can cause problems with preventing Bermuda stolons from tacking down. I have both products on hand. My plan was to use 1/4 of the annual max every 3 months of prodiamine. Do you all think this will work? Or am I better off using a different pre-m for crabgrass control?

The OP will run into the same problem after killing off 60% of the lawn. What kind of pre-m program would you use when trying to push Bermuda to fill in?


----------



## beastcivic (Mar 26, 2018)

adgattoni said:


> FYI I'm in Raleigh but I'm seeing green tips on my bermuda. Might be a bit past the window for glyphosate applications.


Really? That's interesting, I'll have to look at the lawn again. When I put down Pre-e over the weekend it still looked solidly brown. Thanks for the heads up.

I didn't know how hard you can push Bermuda with nitrogen, I always thought it needed/wanted less than fescue, so didn't think I could do weekly 0.25 lbs or bi-weekly 0.5 lb applications. Good to know I can really push it. My biggest struggle will be most likely I'll need to mow it for them too, so that complicates it a bit.


----------



## beastcivic (Mar 26, 2018)

Easyluck said:


> The OP will run into the same problem after killing off 60% of the lawn. What kind of pre-m program would you use when trying to push Bermuda to fill in?


I hoped I could survive until fall for another pre-emergent application. But now that you said that I realized I literally just put down a low rate of prodiamine on Friday. So maybe I just hosed myself for doing anything this year?


----------



## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Prodiamine or dithiopyr is fine. I *think* prodiamine's label even has info for sprigging. If you don't want to go that route, you could do simazine. A hypothetical option, say, if you were a soccer field, would be to use oxadiazon.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

viva_oldtrafford said:


> When we're doing a grow in - a new tee for example - we'll do no less than 1#N/M weekly or bi weekly depending on our timeline. We do weekly apps of 21-0-0 @ 1#N/M when we do our range tee verticut + aerification. You can push bermuda very hard, but you need relaible irrigation to do it. Rainfall is too risky for the wallet and the environment.
> 
> Ronstar is a great product for use on establishing bermuda. It's the only one I've seen that doesn't noticeable handcuff the grow in.


----------



## jjepeto (Jan 27, 2019)

Movingshrub said:


> Prodiamine or dithiopyr is fine. I *think* prodiamine's label even has info for sprigging. If you don't want to go that route, you could do simazine. A hypothetical option, say, if you were a soccer field, would be to use oxadiazon.


You are correct. I'm in the same situation as @beastcivic this year. Inherited a lawn with tons of weeds. Have been killing them off, so to get the bermuda to spread and root, I applied the rate that is specified in the footnotes under the table.

The prodiamine product I have has this rate on the label (quoted below), which I am following. I applied 0.4 lb/acre as a half rate a week ago, I'll probably do another 0.4 lb/acre sometime in May/June to get to 0.8 lb/acre total. Then in the fall, assuming it has filled in adequately, I'll jump up to half the yearly max. I haven't done this before, so I can't say how effective it is for either weed control or bermuda spreading, but it is my plan for the year.



prodiamine label said:


> 2 May be used on newly sprigged or plugged Bermudagrass at rates not to exceed 0.80 lb./A (0.30 oz./1,000 sq. ft.). Newly sprigged or plugged Bermudagrass stolon rooting may be temporarily retarded.


----------



## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

g-man said:


> viva_oldtrafford said:
> 
> 
> > When we're doing a grow in - a new tee for example - we'll do no less than 1#N/M weekly or bi weekly depending on our timeline. We do weekly apps of 21-0-0 @ 1#N/M when we do our range tee verticut + aerification. You can push bermuda very hard, but you need relaible irrigation to do it. Rainfall is too risky for the wallet and the environment.
> ...


I was curious where this went. Did I send it as a pm? I was refreshing and scrolling through the comments looking for it.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@viva_oldtrafford it went as a "report." Report is a feature to notify mods of an issue with a post/thread. I took the content from the report and posted it with quotes.


----------



## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

viva_oldtrafford said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > viva_oldtrafford said:
> ...


I didn't think RonStar was labeled for residential turf though?


----------



## beastcivic (Mar 26, 2018)

Thanks everyone!

I put down 1 lb/acre (0.36oz per 1k sq ft) of prodiamine, so I'm slightly over the label rate for sprigging/plugging Bermuda. I guess worst case scenario is the lawn is full of weeds now and if the Bermuda doesn't fill in like I want to due to the pre-e put down it won't look any worse. If needed, I can over seed with annual rye for winter if there's too many bare spots and start over next spring.

Oddly enough I just watched Matt Martin's stream from last night and he just talked about low doses of glyphosate on Bermuda during green up and beyond @ 36:40 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mozaJxDong). 
He said up to 16 oz per acre, can be used on actively growing Bermuda and during green up (although it may delay/stunt growth up to 7-10 days). So if I'm doing my math right, that's just around 1/3rd oz per 1k. So maybe that's my solution for this year. Spray the weeds a couple times, push growth with nitrogen, frequent mowing, and hope for the best regarding the prodiamine.


----------



## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@adgattoni You're correct. Let me know how your fairway, soccer, or football field turns out. Although, it is labeled for residential ornamental application.


----------



## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> @adgattoni You're correct. Let me know how your fairway, soccer, or football field turns out. Although, it is labeled for residential ornamental application.


I plan to stripe it just like Dodger Stadium.


----------



## rhanna (Jun 7, 2017)

I think ronstar isn't recommenced if they are next to that creek, might be wrong.

What kind of 40% coverage are you talking? Big clumps of Bermuda or is it spread out?

I think it will fill it a lot quicker than you expect, as long as it isn't 1 big patch. Bermuda can probably take nitrogen better than any other grass type.


----------



## Cory (Aug 23, 2017)

I didn't really read through the thread but I did it last year. I went heavier on the nitrogen, I was doing 3/4ish pounds twice a month with quick release 34-0-0. I also aerated 4 or 5 times. I didn't water much, just when it started to look crispy I would put the traveling tractors out.

I'm 25min east of Raleigh. The top picture was April 26, the bottom was October 2nd. 


Here's my lawn journal, https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3860 There's lots of photos from throughout the year.


----------



## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Yeah good point on fast release. My vote is AMS over urea. Bermuda will easily due a 1lb a week but expect to cut every other day.


----------



## beastcivic (Mar 26, 2018)

rhanna said:


> What kind of 40% coverage are you talking? Big clumps of Bermuda or is it spread out?
> 
> I think it will fill it a lot quicker than you expect, as long as it isn't 1 big patch. Bermuda can probably take nitrogen better than any other grass type.


It's definitely patchy all over, not one big patch. I looked back at an aerial shot from a couple years ago, and I think there might be more Bermuda than I think. I have a feeling a lot of the weeds are growing in over top of Bermuda and I just can't see it from all the green on top.

I spoke with my MIL and she's onboard for trying to kill the weeds off and push the Bermuda. We'll see how it goes, I'll be sure to post up progress as the year goes on.


----------



## beastcivic (Mar 26, 2018)

Cory said:


> I'm 25min east of Raleigh. The top picture was April 26, the bottom was October 2nd.
> 
> 
> Here's my lawn journal, https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3860 There's lots of photos from throughout the year.


Wow, that's crazy how fast it filled in. That's positive news for me. Only negative is my FIL is disabled and my MIL just was diagnosed with a rare lung disease...so mowing is primarily on my shoulders. I can pull off one mow a week, maybe two, definitely not every other day though (I have a 3 yr old and a new born coming next month!)

But even a somewhat slow growth in will be an improvement over what is there now. I'm shooting for 80% coverage by September, and wishing for 100%.

I'll try and snap some before, after weed kill, and progress over the summer pics.


----------



## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Then just reduce the amount of N. My vote is 0.3-0.6lb of N, on a five day rotation. I'd go with the lower amount, and spoon feed constantly. The goal is to avoid big swings Of course, it needs to get watered into the soil so if it hasn't rained, I wouldn't apply again.


----------



## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

40% to 100% seems like a lot of coverage in one season, but anything possible with Bermuda. I would use something like 33-0-0 or 46-0-0 to accomplish this. You probably will have to cut the grass closer to three times a week to maintain this height without breaking the 1/3 rule, from my experience. Journal this experiment so everyone will learn with you.


----------



## beastcivic (Mar 26, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> Then just reduce the amount of N. My vote is 0.3-0.6lb of N, on a five day rotation. I'd go with the lower amount, and spoon feed constantly. The goal is to avoid big swings Of course, it needs to get watered into the soil so if it hasn't rained, I wouldn't apply again.


I can definitely spoon feed the lawn, I'll be there to mow at least once a week, I can just throw down a little fertilizer after mowing.


----------



## beastcivic (Mar 26, 2018)

CenlaLowell said:


> 40% to 100% seems like a lot of coverage in one season, but anything possible with Bermuda. I would use something like 33-0-0 or 46-0-0 to accomplish this. You probably will have to cut the grass closer to three times a week to maintain this height without breaking the 1/3 rule, from my experience. Journal this experiment so everyone will learn with you.


I'll have to source some nitrogen only fertilizer, shouldn't be hard...just never looked for it.

I think if my MIL cuts the lawn once, I can do the other one/two per week after work. I will certainly keep a log of how it went and post it up.


----------



## Clemsonhunter (Jun 9, 2021)

Well @beastcivic , how did your lawn turn out? I'm hoping I can achieve something like what Cory posted.


----------

