# Talk to me about pre-emergent products



## massgrass (Aug 17, 2017)

I've lived in this house for almost 20 years now and for the first few years I followed the Scott's 4 step program and had a lawn (with builder-applied "athletic field" grass seed) that was the envy of the neighborhood. Then my oldest son was born.

At that point, with kids playing out in the yard I started to move away from using herbicides/insecticides and only used the pre-emergent combo fertilizer in early-mid April. I eventually discovered Milorganite and stopped using the pre-emergent stuff entirely with an occasional spot spray of selective herbicide.

Fast forward to today, I've been battling Red Thread/Pink Patch every May for the past few years and finally broke down and had my soil tested so that I can try to get this under control. My soil chemistry was pretty bad so I am working to get a handle on that now. Now that my kids are teens I am open to using the pre-emergent stuff again since I don't have to worry about them going outside and rolling around in/eating lawn chemicals. I do have some clover, crabgrass, and violets, but IMO the crabgrass situation isn't that bad considering I haven't used the pre-emergent stuff in years.

For me, something like the Lesco fertilizer with Dimension would be my first choice to put down when the forsythia/daffodils start to bloom since it is readily available at Home Depot and easy to deal with. However, it appears that the current thinking is that is too early to fertilize.

My next choice would be a granular product, say like the Hi-Yield Weed and Grass Stopper with Dimension Herbicide currently on sale at domyownpestcontrol.com. This would allow me to get the pre-emergent stuff down on time without having to fertilize. It's also probably the most expensive approach.

Finally, my last choice would be a spray on pre-emergent. I'll likely end up getting this all over myself, I don't want to have to deal with worrying about cleaning my backpack sprayer to death, and I really don't want to bother storing this stuff. That being said, it is probably the most cost-effective and flexible solution.

So, is just using the Lesco fertilizer with Dimension a big no-no? If so, should I grab a bag of something like the Hi-Yield instead? Is not using the liquid stuff at all justifiable?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

massgrass said:


> Is not using the liquid stuff at all justifiable?


I think it depends on your goals. Is efficacy as important as convenience or far more important? Where does cost rank? Will you be more likely to use the product when needed if it is easier to apply? For me, granular application is a lot easier for a larger yard, so I tend to lean granular when possible.


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

Pre emergent with fertilizer or not just depends if your lawn needs fertilizer then. The actual pre-emergent would work the same either way.


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

How dangerous is pre-emergent? I have three kids that play outside a lot. I mean I'm sure you don't want them out there until it's rained in a bit? Just curious since it's so commonly used in lawns


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## massgrass (Aug 17, 2017)

social port said:


> I think it depends on your goals. Is efficacy as important as convenience or far more important? Where does cost rank? Will you be more likely to use the product when needed if it is easier to apply? For me, granular application is a lot easier for a larger yard, so I tend to lean granular when possible.


I would rate things in the order of convenience, efficacy, and then cost. If I use the granular stuff I can fertilize and put down Dimension for ~$50, or I can just put down Dimension for ~$50. I'm invested enough at this point to use the stuff no matter what option I go with.


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## massgrass (Aug 17, 2017)

GrassDaddy said:


> Pre emergent with fertilizer or not just depends if your lawn needs fertilizer then. The actual pre-emergent would work the same either way.


According to the "other" forum, I shouldn't need to fertilize until mid-May. I don't live that far away from you (I'm in Bristol County, MA), so I'd typically get the pre-emergent stuff down in April.


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

Vols_fan08 said:


> How dangerous is pre-emergent? I have three kids that play outside a lot. I mean I'm sure you don't want them out there until it's rained in a bit? Just curious since it's so commonly used in lawns


Who really knows. But once its watered in its in the soil so unless they are eating the soil they should be fine.


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

massgrass said:


> GrassDaddy said:
> 
> 
> > Pre emergent with fertilizer or not just depends if your lawn needs fertilizer then. The actual pre-emergent would work the same either way.
> ...


Yeah I wondered about that.. I dont have an answer either way but Ive done it both ways and havent had any negatives to early fert.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

massgrass said:


> GrassDaddy said:
> 
> 
> > Pre emergent with fertilizer or not just depends if your lawn needs fertilizer then. The actual pre-emergent would work the same either way.
> ...


I think the theory behind the late May fertilizer is that doing it sooner just pushes more growth at a time when the grass is going through its spring flush anyway. So you just end up mowing more. I don't recall if it also affects the amount of carbohydrates stored in the roots. If you do a winterizer app, that should be sufficient to carry the grass through spring.

Keep in mind, this whole May fertilizer thing is for areas North of the Mason-Dixon line. Unless you're doing preventive fungicide, spring fertilizer is best avoided altogether in the Transition Zone.


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## massgrass (Aug 17, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> I think the theory behind the late May fertilizer is that doing it sooner just pushes more growth at a time when the grass is going through its spring flush anyway. So you just end up mowing more. I don't recall if it also affects the amount of carbohydrates stored in the roots. If you do a winterizer app, that should be sufficient to carry the grass through spring.


Interesting, that jibes with the Milorganite suggested first application on Memorial Day. That does seem at odds with the "add nitrogen" advice for the the Red Thread/Pink Patch that shows up in my yard by mid-May though.


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## Fronta1 (Jul 11, 2017)

I always suggest the same pre emergent to everyone because it works differently than the rest- through the shoots and there's no evidence that it has any negative effect on the good grass, which didn't appear to be the case with the others according to the research I've done. Chemical name is oxadiazon. There is wsp and granular, though wsp world be cheaper. 
From what I have read fertilizer in early spring is "bad" because it shifts the grass' natural tendency to put on root growth to shoot growth.


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## massgrass (Aug 17, 2017)

Wow, domyownpestcontrol.com says oxadiazon is for commerical applicators only and is not for use on residential lawns and turf. Must be serious stuff...


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

I applied granular pre emergents for the first two years. Then it started to become cost prohibitive for the size of my lawn. Spraying prodiamine was definitely more work but worth it in the long run.


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## Fronta1 (Jul 11, 2017)

massgrass said:


> Wow, domyownpestcontrol.com says oxadiazon is for commerical applicators only and is not for use on residential lawns and turf. Must be serious stuff...


I think you make a fair point. I just didn't assume that: not registered four home use = not safe. I think there are several reasons this could be. Something to look into for sure though.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

massgrass said:


> Interesting, that jibes with the Milorganite suggested first application on Memorial Day. That does seem at odds with the "add nitrogen" advice for the the Red Thread/Pink Patch that shows up in my yard by mid-May though.


Sure, specific circumstances may require deviating from the generic plan. Nothing wrong with that.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Fronta1 said:


> massgrass said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, domyownpestcontrol.com says oxadiazon is for commerical applicators only and is not for use on residential lawns and turf. Must be serious stuff...
> ...


If you read the EPA report you will notice that it is an irritant (nasal and skin). The restriction is in place to protect the people applying it. How many homeowners will wear the proper mask? Hardly any.

EPA report from 2003. https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/reg_actions/reregistration/red_PC-109001_1-Sep-03.pdf


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## massgrass (Aug 17, 2017)

The label says that you should call poison control or a doctor if you get it on your skin or clothes. I don't recall seeing that before. It sounds like this stuff is a bit out of my league.


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## Fronta1 (Jul 11, 2017)

massgrass said:


> The label says that you should call poison control or a doctor if you get it on your skin or clothes. I don't recall seeing that before. It sounds like this stuff is a bit out of my league.


To my knowledge there are no liquid or soluble powder products that don't say that. You might be more comfortable with granular.


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