# New to Fescue



## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Alright, so I'm a warm season grass guy, mostly due to location but I have about a 300 sq ft section that is under pretty thick shade. So I'm tired of it just being strictly dirt and blowing dust everywhere when it's windy, and have decided to plant some fescue or other shade grass. Before I decided to do this, I had already applied some pre-emergent but it should be wearing off soon. I would prefer to do it by seed, so would it be best if I just spread a certain type of fescue and lightly cover it with some topsoil or compost?


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

I use peat moss. relatively inexpensive, Easy to spread with a household dust pan. Knits together after wetting. helps hold moisture once wetted and kept wet. Changes color to indicate when it's good and wet or getting dry. Get the soil good and moist before seeding so the peat moss holds the moisture in.


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## MarkAguglia (Jul 13, 2017)

Ridgerunner said:


> I use peat moss. relatively inexpensive, Easy to spread with a household dust pan. Knits together after wetting. helps hold moisture once wetted and kept wet. Changes color to indicate when it's good and wet or getting dry. Get the soil good and moist before seeding so the peat moss holds the moisture in.


I second this. I seeded many spots with TTTF, several large areas, and used peat moss to top dress. It works excellent for the reasons above.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

TTTF?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Yes, TTTF has much between color than ky 31. I suppose that if the area is very heavily shaded, you should also consider fine fescue.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Yeah I guess I need to do my research. I wasn't familiar with any of those different types. I do like fine bladed grass, so some type of fine fescue would be nice


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Absent additional information, I'd recommend something like this: 
Since it's only 300 sqft, my suggestion is to start with TTTF. If it germinates and survives, stick with it (TTTF usually needs reseeding annually). If the TTTF doesn't work out, transition to fine fescue. You will be getting relatively fine blades with both options.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

social port said:


> Absent additional information, I'd recommend something like this:
> Since it's only 300 sqft, my suggestion is to start with TTTF. If it germinates and survives, stick with it (TTTF usually needs reseeding annually). If the TTTF doesn't work out, transition to fine fescue. You will be getting relatively fine blades with both options.


Thank you very much


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I've seen plenty of people use fine fescues when they have trees that lead to large areas being heavily shaded. I'm not familiar with the criteria for deciding when an area is too shaded for TTTF to thrive...but I think you'll be happier with TTTF if you can grow it.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

So would it be best to look at buying just TTTF seed, or trying to find some of the scott's or pennington stuff that home depot or someone has?


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

w0lfe said:


> So would it be best to look at buying just TTTF seed, or trying to find some of the scott's or pennington stuff that home depot or someone has?


I would strongly caution against using commercial big-box store shade seed blends. There could be some nasties in there.

As others have said, if you can get TTTF established it will provide much better quality over a shade mix with creeping red and other low input fescues.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

1) You might want to give the NTEP data from 2012 a look. http://www.ntep.org/reports/tf12/tf12_15-4/tf12_15-4.htm
OK is included as a location studied. If you identify 8 or so cultivars that perform well, then you can look online for a source (e.g., Hogan's, SuperSeedStore). You can then order a blend of 2-3 cultivars based on availability.

2) Or even simpler: Give Hogan Seed Company a call. Tell them your location and that you are looking for a shade tolerant TTTF for 300 sq ft of your yard. I'll be willing to bet that they will have a recommendation.

3) I can't believe I am saying this, but you might also want to consider a warm season alternative. I've read that St. Aug can do well in shade, but I don't know enough to advise on St. Aug. or other warm season alternatives.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

social port said:


> 1) You might want to give the NTEP data from 2012 a look. http://www.ntep.org/reports/tf12/tf12_15-4/tf12_15-4.htm
> OK is included as a location studied. If you identify 8 or so cultivars that perform well, then you can look online for a source (e.g., Hogan's, SuperSeedStore). You can then order a blend of 2-3 cultivars based on availability.
> 
> 2) Or even simpler: Give Hogan Seed Company a call. Tell them your location and that you are looking for a shade tolerant TTTF for 300 sq ft of your yard. I'll be willing to bet that they will have a recommendation.
> ...


Thanks for the website, I'm going to run by eckroat seed today since it's relatively close, and see what they suggest as well.. I'm worried about adding any other warm season to my lawn. I really don't want anything creeping into my Bermuda, if that makes sense.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

It does make sense. TTTF won't creep, so no worries there. But avoid any cultivar tagged LS (lateral spread), just to be safe.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Alright, eckroat seed had a mix called Endo that's a mix of three different tall fescues. He said it would thrive in the shade. I can't remember what the 3 were exactly, but one he said was Memphis, I believe.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I'm not familiar with the cultivar, but local experts carry weight, in my opinion.

Just make sure that you're at 0.00 percent for both weed AND crop/other crop in the analysis of the bag's content.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

So I called back to see what the 3 were to be exact, and they were Memphis, Marrakech, and Serengeti


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Memphis has been used in NTEP. It is difficult to evaluate. I will say that it would not be my first choice for the southeast.

But for OK...the performance looks about average relative to other types of fescue--at least in Stillwater. Not top of the class, but not bad either. 
I'm not familiar with the other two.
In general, it doesn't look like fescue enjoys the success that it has in other regions. Ironically, you may need that shade for the fescue to have its best performance.

But FYI, I am doing a lot of interpreting and speculating here. I would be curious to know how this seeding turns out for you.


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

Sinclair said:


> w0lfe said:
> 
> 
> > So would it be best to look at buying just TTTF seed, or trying to find some of the scott's or pennington stuff that home depot or someone has?
> ...


Heed ... this ... caution ... !

I've pretty much hijacked at least 1, probably 2, threads herein withinlast couple days lamenting the travails I am undergoing with some pretty noxious and very difficult grassy weeds. I've been completely baffled until - going back through my journal for 2017 and the light bulb exploded over my head about 30-minutes ago when I saw I used some of that "off the shelf" bagged and "blended" stuff and, you guessed it, THE ONLY PLACES WHERE I AM FINDING THESE WEEDS (after wining the war and the battle last year) are where I spread that stuff.

I have got to get it through my thick head to just keep sourcing my seed only from our local SiteOne. Or, after this experience, I may just jump in and order online (from Hodge's, IIRC).


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Alright so a little over a month later, I've got this stuff growing pretty well in decent shade. It's starting to stay in the upper 80s to 90 almost every day, so I've been putting the water to it and it's growing on in. I've got some bare spots in the middle due to some heavy rain washing seeds around initially and also from me just randomly throwing seeds down and missing spots. So now my question is, when should I start mowing this and at what height? Should I maintain that height throughout the season? Summer? Fall? Winter? Like I said, I'm new to fescue completely.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

If the grass is new, the blades may be too thin to mow tall. Mow at a height where you are actually mowing the grass if it is flopping over. Otherwise, mow fescue tall in the summer to help with moisture if you are not watering it. If you do water, I guess it doesn't really matter how tall you mow. Just don't go super short with fescue. Being a bunch type grass, I'm not sure it would do well cut low. Everyone I see cutting their fescue at 2" or so always goes quite brown in summer and gets thinner year after year.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> If the grass is new, the blades may be too thin to mow tall. Mow at a height where you are actually mowing the grass if it is flopping over. Otherwise, mow fescue tall in the summer to help with moisture if you are not watering it. If you do water, I guess it doesn't really matter how tall you mow. Just don't go super short with fescue. Being a bunch type grass, I'm not sure it would do well cut low. Everyone I see cutting their fescue at 2" or so always goes quite brown in summer and gets thinner year after year.


Thanks man. I'll give that a shot. Maybe 3-4 inches year around?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

w0lfe said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> > If the grass is new, the blades may be too thin to mow tall. Mow at a height where you are actually mowing the grass if it is flopping over. Otherwise, mow fescue tall in the summer to help with moisture if you are not watering it. If you do water, I guess it doesn't really matter how tall you mow. Just don't go super short with fescue. Being a bunch type grass, I'm not sure it would do well cut low. Everyone I see cutting their fescue at 2" or so always goes quite brown in summer and gets thinner year after year.
> ...


Wait a sec. I just saw your profile. You have bermuda? If so, this isn't the right advice...

For fescue, you can mow 2-3 in the early spring and later in fall. In late spring when the temps get in to the mid to high 70's, I would mow 4" or 5" if possible. It is really tall but once the whole lawn gets that height, it looks uniform and neat. This will help it survive temps over 100 if you have that kind of heat... I do about 3" until the heat comes and then 4". Once fall comes and temps drop in to the lower 70's, I go back to 3 and then maybe 2.5 for the last mow before winter. The lower height gives snow mold less food and the grass is dormant anyway, so it isn't growing.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

I just went back and read your first post. Cool. Maybe consider fungicides since you have warm weather and that is a fescue weakness in hot and humid areas. Though, if you aren't dying for the perfect lawn, try a year without it to see how the fescue does. If you get hit hard though, definitely needs to be on a fungicide program.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> w0lfe said:
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> 
> > Suburban Jungle Life said:
> ...


Yeah I've got a big shade tree on the side of the house where nothing grows, thus why I'm trying the fescue gig. Right now I'd say the tallest stuff is around 6 inches and then everything in between. I planted it back in April and haven't mowed it yet because I worry about smashing some of the stuff that has just sprouted.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Welcome to the fescue/bermuda club! I have both and I will be trying to eliminate the bermuda to have a pure fescue lawn. On another lawn I am working on, I will be converting the zoysia/fescue/bermuda mix to pure zoysia. Should be interesting.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Welcome to the fescue/bermuda club! I have both and I will be trying to eliminate the bermuda to have a pure fescue lawn. On another lawn I am working on, I will be converting the zoysia/fescue/bermuda mix to pure zoysia. Should be interesting.


Haha thanks, yeah I love my Bermuda. I've got it down to a science and get compliments on it all of the time... But now I'm venturing into new territory. It's only 300-400 sq ft of fescue under the tree, so it should be easy to manage


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

I like your goal. The fescue doesn't spread so this should be a pretty simple venture. If you have fescue and don't want bermuda, that's fun... This bermuda gets into everything!


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> I like your goal. The fescue doesn't spread so this should be a pretty simple venture. If you have fescue and don't want bermuda, that's fun... This bermuda gets into everything!


Haha no doubt... So would you recommend any specific fertilizer at this point for my fescue?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

w0lfe said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> > I like your goal. The fescue doesn't spread so this should be a pretty simple venture. If you have fescue and don't want bermuda, that's fun... This bermuda gets into everything!
> ...


I would go with a starter fert. Young grass likes P. Maybe .5 lbs of N with your starter fert. Since you are growing it in spring, you will need to keep it alive during summer. Watering probably similar to the bermuda. 1" a week or if you are sitting on sand, maybe twice a week. I wouldn't go to heavy on the N with the hot temps. Fescue will probably croak if you feed it while it's stressed from heat. Once you have temps in the 70's and it's going, down, go with 1 lbs N per month until you hit temps in the low 50's. As long as soil temps are in the mid to upper 40's the fescue will keep growing. If you have sand or just bored or just love being out there, you can cut the fert apps into bi weekly or even weekly apps if you really want. I tried the weekly apps but I felt like I was just dusting the grass with fert so I go with bi weekly. A weekly rate of 0.25 lb of N/M with a syn 30 or higher just seems like so little.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> w0lfe said:
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> > Suburban Jungle Life said:
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Very much appreciated bud!


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

w0lfe said:


> Very much appreciated bud!


 :thumbup: I was thinking. Just to be clear, the 1 lb of N per month if for tall fescue or turf type tall fescue (TTTF). TTTF does need sun but can take some shade. It does get thinner in shade though.

If you plant fine fescue (chewings, creeping red, sheeps, etc) it is very different. You should use 1.5 lbs of N per year! You would have to divide that up so you mostly have it in the fall with a smidge in the spring. If you go 1 lb per month on fine fescue, it'll be dead. Fine fescue is a super thin bladed grass and it also grows slowly. It also isn't usually as dark green as TTTF. It really doesn't need much sunlight and will survive in full tree shade as long as there is a little sun. So, not on a fully shaded forest floor. For 3-4 mows of TTTF, you mow FF 1 time. I seeded some FF and in 1 month, it's finally at about 2". I've been mowing my TTTF every 3 days.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Alright guys, I'm just piggybacking in my old thread... what would be the best thing to spot spray this small area with? I've got a lot of broadleaf popping up but doubt I can use my bermuda herbicides.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

What you have?


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

@g-man It's a couple different mixes of TTTF I got from a seed company. It's not very well developed and relatively young, so I didn't know what herbicide to use


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Sorry, I meant herbicides. Some might work on the TTTF. You can always buy a weed b gon concentrate for ~$7 at any big box store.


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## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

Celsius and certainty is what I have now


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Ok, those are not cool season safe. You will need to buy.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

w0lfe said:


> Celsius and certainty is what I have now


  Those are great if you don't want fescue anymore... As g-man suggested, head over to the home store and grab a 3 way. Read the ingredients to be sure they are safe for fescue. Most broadleafs are toast with a standard 3 way and spot spraying should be sufficient with the home store stuff. Feel free to post the a.i. of your product of choice so someone can verify it's safe.


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