# Overseeding TTTF



## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

Ok, so this has been weighing on me lately and i feel like i want to make a post on it. I see this a lot here and other places online. I might catch some flack, but i love a difference of opinion. Lets discuss it...

You don't need to over-seed TTTF every year, just because it's what you read online or saw in a YouTube video. 

Yes, I said it and now i'll explain why i feel this way. Fescue doesn't have a 1 year life span. Fescue that is properly maintained can live for many years. Adding in more Fescue just because will do more harm than good. If you water 1" (or even 1.5") per week. That's 1" of water per 1 Square Inch of ground. Lets say you have 15 Fescue plants (i'm making this number up. I'm not counting this in real life!) in that 1 sqin drinking the water. They are good, and it's adequate water for them to be thriving. You have good plant density here, IE no holes, and the plants stand up tall and support each other. Why are you going to go and add 5 or more Fescue plants every year to that same sqin? In 2 years, you went from 15 fescue plants to 25. Now you have over competition. Instead of 15 plants drinking up the 1" of water in that 1 Sqin, you have 25. Or 35.. A small river is plenty of water to supply a town of 2,000 residents. However, it is not enough for a town of 200,000 residents.

This applies to not only water, but Fertilizers as well. 1#N per 1K is 1# of N. Most people don't change that based upon plant density. Another is the Oxygen exchange capacity of your soil. Plants breath, You don't want to be breathing in the air of 30 people in a broom closet? Which brings me to air flow. If you're turf is too dense, you loose air flow. This inhibits gas exchange with the soil and atmosphere and also prohibits the soil and crowns to dry after a rain. Which leads to fungus...

So... If you have a stand of Fescue that is healthy, Full, and thriving you don't need to over-seed just because everyone says you do. You need to make the judgement for yourself based on YOUR yard and YOUR conditions. And remember, In the fall if you Follow the fall nitrogen blitz, You'll thicken that turf up from minor damage. Here is a shot of my lawn (night shot @social port !!!). You can really see how thick and healthy it is in this section. I did not overseed last year, and i will not overseed it this year either.




(Excuse the terrible mower blade. I corrected that after this shot)

I do want to add here at the bottom: If you have thin spots where you see soil, or the grass is flopping over since there isn't more plants to prop up the leaves (Lean on each other for support...) for what ever reasons (death from heat, lack of water, Herbicide burn, holes from weeds, insect... Etc) then, by all means, overseed. Repair your turf and get it to a thickness or density to where you don't have to overseed.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

No flack, I agree.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Awesome post.

What gets the credit for getting the grass through transition zone summer so well? Density, fungicide, and water?

I would like to add that TTTF is such nice turf that it glows green at night :nod:


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

So true but (always a but) it takes a lot of concentrated effort and $$$ to get cool season grass unscathed through a transition zone Summer. My hat off to you for your success - it's not easy.

Overseeding to fill holes caused by fungus or heat damage, or even by opportunistic weeds that took hold after heat stress is often necessary. If it's not needed, then you are spot on - no need to waste time and money to make a dense stand of healthy turf if you already have that. Your turf looks really great. :thumbup:


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Nice write up.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

I agree with @Delmarva Keith. Hats off to you for keep fescue happy through the hot summers. :thumbup:

For me, I don't irrigate and rely on the rain. I see fescue yards get thinner every year. So, I seed every year to compensate. If the stand is thick, I go low or skip really thick areas but that's not the usual. With a yearly overseed, the turf I see keeps the same density. The ones which don't overseed turn into salad bars with barely any grass after a few years. For some reason, irrigation isn't popular in my neck of the woods.


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

I agree 100%. Still trying to get my TTTF through a hot, dry summer without irrigation. I thought it would make it this year however I have a few spots that just couldn't take the heat. Still waiting to see what the rest of the summer brings but as for right now I will only need to seed a few spots but August and early September can be brutal here in NC. Good thing Hogan's is only a couple shipping days away since I always order seed last minute.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

The same goes for a Northern mix of Fescue, PR, and KBG. There is no need to overseed it unless it needs overseeding. In fact, the typical Nomix, even if it's not mostly KBG, still has more spreading ability than the Fescue alone, and doesn't need much or any overseeding for even small gaps.

But when you have to overseed, you have to overseed.


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## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

social port said:


> Awesome post.
> 
> What gets the credit for getting the grass through transition zone summer so well? Density, fungicide, and water?
> 
> I would like to add that TTTF is such nice turf that it glows green at night :nod:


Fungicide and water get the credit to keeping the density on point. The Density acts to shade and reduce stress on the turf. Provided the density isn't too high creating too much competition.

I need to add more to this.

Really just finding what works for you, and your environment and staying on top of it. Fertilization, watering, fungicides, and herbicides.


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## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

Delmarva Keith said:


> So true but (always a but) it takes a lot of concentrated effort and $$$ to get cool season grass unscathed through a transition zone Summer. My hat off to you for your success - it's not easy.
> 
> Overseeding to fill holes caused by fungus or heat damage, or even by opportunistic weeds that took hold after heat stress is often necessary. If it's not needed, then you are spot on - no need to waste time and money to make a dense stand of healthy turf if you already have that. Your turf looks really great. :thumbup:


There is always a but. And i agree. If you have sun reaching the soil (be it from fungus, heat, bugs, etc) rest assured mother nature will ensure that sun is used soon enough. So better for us to fill those holes with more desired grasses (IE overseed) than let her fill it with her weeds.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2018)

Awesome yard. How far is kernersville from raleigh my cool season stuff needs work LOL. I cant get fescue that thick to save my life...


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

So here's a question...

What's the longest anyone has gone (successfully) without overseeding on here for Tall Fescue? 5 years? 10 years??


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## outdoorsmen (Jul 23, 2018)

Dont overseed...now what am i supposed to bother myself with....


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

If you don't overseed, you have the benefit of putting prem early to stop poa annua without using tenacity and other pricier options!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

outdoorsmen said:


> Dont overseed...now what am i supposed to bother myself with....


Mow and fertilize.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

outdoorsmen said:


> Dont overseed...now what am i supposed to bother myself with....


Yeah, seems like I never run out of things. Need to work on soil. Need to level/smooth. Work on irrigation set-up. Still have striper projects. Head light on mower? Sure, why not. preM. PostM. Mastering the art of trimming. Looking at possible equipment purchases. Audit sprinklers. And I still stink at grilling.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

social port said:


> And I still stink at grilling.


Not for long


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## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

outdoorsmen said:


> Dont overseed...now what am i supposed to bother myself with....


Reap the benefits of full season of "fall nitrogen blitz". Between that and the subsequent mowing, you'll still be busy.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Green said:


> So here's a question...
> 
> What's the longest anyone has gone (successfully) without overseeding on here for Tall Fescue? 5 years? 10 years??


I overseed every year. Between the fungus, heat and then too much rain all at once, there's always some spots here and there that can use a boost. Just the nature of the beast. On the bright side, I can constantly introduce improved cultivars. On the downside, timing it can get old as in I have to be around and have available time in Sept. This year it gets KBG in the mix. I guess I need a challenge :lol: If it works out, overseeding in future years will get skipped in favor of coaxing KBG spreading.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Delmarva Keith said:


> This year it gets KBG in the mix. I guess I need a challenge :lol: If it works out, overseeding in future years will get skipped in favor of coaxing KBG spreading.


Until the KBG takes over the inevitable dead spots year after year and you decide you want or need more fescue in those areas to blend with everything else! Lol. It never ends.

I've never overseeded the majority of my back TTTF/KBG mix after the first year, except for a very small area last year. The only reason I did that is it's an area that gets shaded in the Fall and Spring behind the deck and the KBG struggles between that and the Winterkill that sometimes happens from shoveling snow onto the area.

I've also spot patched areas I killed last year, but did that with self grown sod.

Finally, I seeded into dead mouse/vole tracks this Spring because I hated the idea of it looking terrible until early Summer.

I only overseed that lawn with TTTF...never KBG, as the nearby KBG spreads into the seeded areas.

This year I have small dormant spots. Never had them in that area before. Hoping they recover and don't need new sod.


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