# First Cut & Tenacity



## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

Hello,

I'm 33 days into my KBG renovation and the grass is getting to a point of cutting. I also have a good amount of crab grass and some spurge showing up. Not sure if Tenacity treats spurge, but right now more concerned over the eye sore that is crab grass...

Am I better to apply Tenacity and wait to cut a few days, or cut then apply Tenacity after a few days?

I'd like to clean things up and start weekly fertilizer applications per @g-man


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

33 days since seed down or germination? If it is not wet, you are safe to walk on it and hand pull those weeds since you only have 1.5ksqft. You can mow (make sure it is a sharp blade). I'm at two weeks since germination and I'm thinking on mowing this weekend.


----------



## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> 33 days since seed down or germination? If it is not wet, you are safe to walk on it and hand pull those weeds since you only have 1.5ksqft. You can mow (make sure it is a sharp blade). I'm at two weeks since germination and I'm thinking on mowing this weekend.


Hey @g-man it's 33 days since seed down. So I probably need to wait another week before the 30 day germination time.

I'm afraid to lose some bluegrass trying to pull the weeds... Anything to be concerned with? Why I thought Tenacity application.

What height would be ideal for the grass this early? I'm not shooting for the low cut look... 3"?

I'm going to post some new photos this afternoon in my renovation thread...


----------



## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

g-man said:


> 33 days since seed down or germination? If it is not wet, you are safe to walk on it and hand pull those weeds since you only have 1.5ksqft. You can mow (make sure it is a sharp blade). I'm at two weeks since germination and I'm thinking on mowing this weekend.


It's 33 days since seed down. So I probably need to wait another week before the 30 day germination time.

I'm afraid to lose some bluegrass trying to pull the weeds... Anything to be concerned with? Why I thought Tenacity application.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Purdue recommends KBG to be cut at 1.5in for the initials mowing and then let it grow. So as soon as it is around 2in, mow it.

Just be gentle with pulling and you should be fine.


----------



## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

To piggy back on this. When should the 2nd Tenacity app go down. I have heard 30 days, but not sure from what. I see the label says :

"Wait until the newly germinated turf has been mowed two times or four weeks after emergence (whichever is longer) before making a postemergence application."

This is tough with KBG. Some emergence after 7 days, but things still seem to be germinating at day 20 and could continue for another week or so. Best to start the clock after 28 days from seed down?


----------



## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Tenacity should treat spurge. It seems to treat all of the problem weeds that I'm seeing in my renovation (clover, ground ivy, wild violet, crab grass to name a few).

If you pull out some grass along with the weeds it should not be a problem in the long run since the KBG will eventually fill in gaps. But still, be careful.

Did you use starter fert at seed down? I know they say KBG can take 4 weeks but mine seemed to all germinate by around day 10 (most by day 8) and my first cut at 1.5" was on day 23 (from seed down).

Today is day 26 (from seed down) and my plan is to keep mowing as needed and spray tenacity the week of September 23rd.


----------



## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

Mozart said:


> Tenacity should treat spurge. It seems to treat all of the problem weeds that I'm seeing in my renovation (clover, ground ivy, wild violet, crab grass to name a few).
> 
> If you pull out some grass along with the weeds it should not be a problem in the long run since the KBG will eventually fill in gaps. But still, be careful.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback. I did use starter fertilizer with the weed preventer. It seemed to wear off after about 14-16 days and things started coming through.

I'm going to cut it this weekend, and apply some urea weekly. Give it a little more time and then go with a second application of tenacity to knock out the ugly stuff.


----------



## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Spurge is not listed as a weed controlled by Tenacity. Tenacity did nothing for the spurge I have. However, spurge, like crabgrass, is an annual weed and will die at frost. Next spring be sure to use pre-emergent.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

and spurge it is easy to hand pull.


----------



## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

My mistake, thanks for catching that. I know it treats purslane and confused that with spurge.


----------



## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

I'm applying mine tomorrow or Sunday. I believe it also says wait 3 days before and after to mow.


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

Anyone just throw down another app of starter with meso instead of a liquid app? Seems the new lawn can use more p and k anyway to get stronger roots. I have both but would like to use up the starter since I have 50 pounds left over. 
Figure skip the urea spoon feeding for a couple of weeks after applying 
Thoughts


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Wait 30 days post germination and don't exceed 0.25 of N/ksqft/week.


----------



## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

I'm thinking about doing that. Storage space is at a premium, so I'd rather not leave it around. I've got some wild onion or garlic that popped up during my reno. The meso from seed down is starting to affect one of the patches. I'm also starting to see poa in the neighbors yards, so I'd like to protect my reno from that. I used about half the bag, maybe a bit less IIRC, during the reno. I think I'll put it down again at 5 weeks (4.5 post germination).


----------



## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

I am thinking the same thing on my reno, only i am only going to put it down at half the bag rate do to the nitrogen will be a little excessive.


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

iowa jim said:


> I am thinking the same thing on my reno, only i am only going to put it down at half the bag rate do to the nitrogen will be a little excessive.


At half bag rate how does this effect the efficiency of the meso and pre and post control of the weeds. 


g-man said:


> Wait 30 days post germination and don't exceed 0.25 of N/ksqft/week.


So the n p k are 21 24 4 if I only put .25 N down I would only be able to put 1.2 pounds of product per 1000...bag rate is 4.3 pounds which is .9 N per 1000. Even tho some of this is slow release I still want to stay under .25 N or are you talking fast release like urea?


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Since we don't know the release rate of the slow and the location of the nitrogen when it releases, I always use the total nitrogen. You could always experiment with your Reno or just use liquid tenacity.


----------



## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

I put down .8lb N/m from a 13-13-13. On day 34, two days ago. So well see how it goes, urea was coated.


----------



## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

JDgreen18 said:


> iowa jim said:
> 
> 
> > I am thinking the same thing on my reno, only i am only going to put it down at half the bag rate do to the nitrogen will be a little excessive.
> ...


The efficiency will be effected, but I'm hoping it will help some in slowing down some of the weeds. I will be at day 40 when i do this and thought this is a good balance to a little to much nitrogen and a little to less of tenacity. I'm trying just to get by this fall as my average first frost is Oct.15. I also don't want to put any prodiamen down until next spring. My weed pressure is not to bad right now and i don't want it to get any worse.


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

@iowa jim I put it down today at 2 pounds per 1000 thats about half bag rate and I am at 40 days from seed down


----------



## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

If mmicha is still reading: I had a spurge infestation and pulled it up before overseeding and spraying with Tenacity. The surge is back in full force, so Tenacity did not help with spurge. I went out this afternoon and pulled a few buckets of it up. I did it mainly so I could see where I might need to put down more grass seed. It pulled up very easily (lots of rain lately and the ground is soft). But I have no doubt that more will grow to take its place and I'll have mats of it by next month. It apparently has thousands of seeds. Frost will kill it. If it's taking over your seeding, it is very easy to pull it up and I don't think it will hurt your grass. I just grabbed handfulls of spurge and it didn't pull up the grass seedlings. Of course the grass is mashed down where I was walking on it but it will pop back up.


----------



## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

JDgreen18 said:


> @iowa jim I put it down today at 2 pounds per 1000 thats about half bag rate and I am at 40 days from seed down


I try not to break any of g-man suggestions, so hopefully he will forgive us and we only broke it a little bit.


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

iowa jim said:


> JDgreen18 said:
> 
> 
> > @iowa jim I put it down today at 2 pounds per 1000 thats about half bag rate and I am at 40 days from seed down
> ...


Lol yeah i know he def knows his [email protected] my spring reno ( Not knowing better) I actually put full bag rate on a Pennington northern mix after the third mow....a bunch turned white but it all worked out. Now do I want to chance that on my kbg reno....NOPE


----------

