# Celsius = Awesome!



## Kustrud

Thought I'd make a new thread for this and hopefully get some more people on board with it. It effectively cleared every single weed in my yard with no harm to the grass. Dead, gone, no trace. My neighbor, who's yard has never been taken care of was spraying his with whatever he was using. Terrible crab grass and many other types all over it. I brought over a weighed out max amount for 4 gallons and told him to empty his sprayer and mix this instead. This was about 3 weeks ago - he came to me today and said to look at his lawn. It killed absolutely EVERYTHING and all that is left is grass. It's never looked better haha! Absolutely amazing stuff! Go buy some!


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## Mightyquinn

Kustrud said:


> Thought I'd make a new thread for this and hopefully get some more people on board with it. It effectively cleared every single weed in my yard with no harm to the grass. Dead, gone, no trace. My neighbor, who's yard has never been taken care of was spraying his with whatever he was using. Terrible crab grass and many other types all over it. I brought over a weighed out max amount for 4 gallons and told him to empty his sprayer and mix this instead. This was about 3 weeks ago - he came to me today and said to look at his lawn. It killed absolutely EVERYTHING and all that is left is grass. It's never looked better haha! Absolutely amazing stuff! Go buy some!


+1 :thumbup: I'm a big believer in the stuff too!


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## SCGrassMan

Ill get that after I run out of 2,4D with Dicamba. Cheap and effective, but some stuff it doesn't kill.


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## Gibby

I am on the Celsius bandwagon too! It took 2 apps for me and I spiked it with the MSM. But it took care of all my weeds.


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## Redtenchu

+1

it's slow, but effective.


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## gatormac2112

Redtenchu said:


> +1
> 
> it's slow, but effective.


+1

I sprayed my mother-in-laws yard with it and have said more than once that it doesn't look like its working, but believe me its working :lol:

Sure enough, the yard is weed free now


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## Rockinar

Considering your neighbor probably does not have a Lawn Forum Signature Series sprayer, what sprayer did he use? I have Celsius but have never used it. Ive seen members here smoke their lawn with it and report they did not even use much or used some Home Depot sprayer. It makes me nervous.


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## Mightyquinn

Rockinar said:


> Considering your neighbor probably does not have a Lawn Forum Signature Series sprayer, what sprayer did he use? I have Celsius but have never used it. Ive seen members here smoke their lawn with it and report they did not even use much or used some Home Depot sprayer. It makes me nervous.


You shouldn't be nervous about using it and it doesn't require any special equipment. The only piece of advice I would give you is all you need is a light mist on the weed. More is NOT better when it comes to Celsius


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## Greendoc

Celsius was designed to be safe enough for lawn care professionals treating St Augustine in the middle of summer in Florida. As long as it is applied so that label amount or something close to it on the given area it is safe. You cannot apply something like Trimec or Weed B Gon to St Augustine under similar conditions. I broadcast apply to entire lawns at label rates. The only sign to me and my customers that it is working is the weeds stop growing and shrink into the lawn. No burning or browning. Grass also should not turn yellow either. If it does, it is on you for not fertilizing the grass adequately.


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## Bunnysarefat

Does everybody use MSO with Celcius or a regular surfactant?


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## Ware

Bunnysarefat said:


> Does everybody use MSO with Celcius or a regular surfactant?


I use MSO, unless the temps are really high.


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## Movingshrub

I've only used a NIS, but that's only because nothing I have sprayed has called for MSO.


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## Greendoc

Only things I have used that call for NIS, but I use MSO for are Monument and Certainty. Only time that changes is if I am spraying and it is over 85*. Then, I put away the MSO and use nonionic only. Otherwise most products with the exception of Glyphosate and Amine broadleaf weed killer work better with MSO. Just know and understand the effect of that addition. It will make an application that much more effective vs NIS. The low to medium rate of Celsius is enough for me because I know when to use MSO.

I was part of product testing and evaluation for Bayer the year after it got approved for use. Based on what I told them about my observations under both cool conditions, hot conditions, and on big, mature weeds, they added warnings concerning usage of MSO with Celsius. I suspect Tribute Total was based on a tank mix I used on a lawn that had Nutsedge, broadleaf weeds, and grassy weeds. It was Revolver, Certainty, and Celsius. Certainty was still under a Patent, so they used Halosulfuron(Sedgehammer) instead, to make an all in one fairway and lawn clean up product.


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## Kballen11

What is a good sprayer that anyone would recommend?


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## Movingshrub

@Greendoc what's the difference between an MSO and COC? I've seen Celsius call for MSO, while I also have Crossbow which is 2,4-d ester and triclopyr and the label suggests using diesel,
Kerosen, or fuel oil when doing basal bark applications.


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## SCGrassMan

What's an MSO?


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## Greendoc

COC is simply an emulsifiable petroieum oil with low solvent power. MSO, is methylated seed oil. Methylated seed oil is a better solvent for organic compounds vs COC. What happens in the spray tank is that the herbicide tends to partition into the MSO. The MSO with the herbicide penetrates through waxes on the weed leaves carrying a high concentration of herbicides dissolved in that oil phase. COC does this, but not as well as MSO, because it is not as good a solvent. Both are good at delaying drying of a spray and evaporation. BTW, for Simazine or Atrazine, oil is a necessary additive if going after emerged Poa annua because the oil keeps the herbicides from drying and forming a non absorbing crystal on the surface of the weed.

The best carrier for using 2,4-D or Crossbow on brush is biodiesel. Biodiesel is methylated seed oil without the emulsifiers to enable mixing with water. Of course, it is excellent at penetrating through bark, carrying whatever was mixed with it.


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## Movingshrub

Thanks @Greendoc . I know I have veered the topic slightly away from Clesius but this info might be applicable to those doing off label use for poa.

I am doing the syngenta prodiamine, simazine, and monument approach for my winter pre-em, with very good results. Is there any value in splitting that into either two or three seperate apps, and including an MSO instead of the NIS I used previously with the monument and simazine/princep?


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## Greendoc

If I were going to be applying Celsius or any other Sulfonylurea herbicide to an off label or less than susceptible weed, I would be making the tank mix with MSO. Reason why is that I am more likely to get a substantial kill with that vs a NIS.

When I apply Prodiamine, it is normally by itself or with something I need to water in right away. I am not comfortable leaving preemergents not watered into the soil. Now for your program, the Prodiamine would be by itself and then watered in. Now for the Simazine and Monument, that calls for MSO. Simazine and Atrazine becomes a postemergent when applied with oil. Again, this is how it is used in corn fields. When Simazine was legal for use in Hawaii on lawns, I would apply it with either COC or MSO to emerged weeds to kill them during grow in from plugs or sprigs. For your usage, that and Monument would become an effective application against Poa annua and emerged broadleaf weeds.

Do you use Speedzone? I do. If Speedzone becomes part of the application, I skip adding MSO to the mix. Speedzone is formulated with COC. That is part of why it works so well. A lot is being added to the mix as well. If I were to apply 2,4-D ester to a lawn, I only need 1/2 oz per 1000 sq ft, Dicamba as Banvel, only a 1/2 teaspoon, Carfentrazone, as Quicksilver, 1 ML or else 1/5th of a teaspoon. That leaves about 1/2 oz of volume for COC. I only use Speedzone from November til May. After that, I need to think about vaporization of the 2.,4-D and damage to the lawn.


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## Colonel K0rn

@Greendoc Thanks for the great information. And yes, Celsius is awesome, if you spray it at medium rate and don't have carpet grass. :lol:


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## Greendoc

Sure is. I use Celsius + Revolver to kill Carpet grass when it has contaminated another grass. Other grass Celsius is not to be used on is Seashore Paspalum. I remember having to fix a lawn that was killed with Celsius. Now I know what 0.117oz per gallon applied twice to Seashore Paspalum will do to it. I did not do it, but I had to neutralize the chemical and then plug the entire lawn.


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## Rackhouse Mayor

@Greendoc I just purchased a SouthernAg NIS to use with Celsius, but should I go back and buy some MSO? Does it make that big of a difference? I went with the NIS because it seemed much more readily available (and cheaper). Also, I live in South Mississippi so temps will stay above 85 degrees May-Sept if that makes a difference.


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## Greendoc

You need both. NIS is for the warm season. The MSO is for winter weeds.


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## Kustrud

Which rate do you guys recommend for spot spraying?


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## Mightyquinn

Kustrud said:


> Which rate do you guys recommend for spot spraying?


I always use the high rate for spot spraying to ensure maximum casualties


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## Spammage

Mightyquinn said:


> Kustrud said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which rate do you guys recommend for spot spraying?
> 
> 
> 
> I always use the high rate for spot spraying to ensure maximum casualties
Click to expand...

I take the opposite approach and mix a lighter dose. I tend to be heavy handed when spot spraying and don't want to scorch the surrounding grass.


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## gardencityboy

SCGrassMan said:


> What's an MSO?


Southern Ag Methylated Seed Oil (MSO) Surfactant


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## Kustrud

Spammage said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kustrud said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which rate do you guys recommend for spot spraying?
> 
> 
> 
> I always use the high rate for spot spraying to ensure maximum casualties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I take the opposite approach and mix a lighter dose. I tend to be heavy handed when spot spraying and don't want to scorch the surrounding grass.
Click to expand...

This was my reason, I have noticed that the grass is greening now - if I am a bit heavy-handed it yellows the surrounding grass a bit. Comes back quickly but still. May try half strength next time.

The stuff is awesome!


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## Movingshrub

I was reading a publication from NC State - 2018 Pest Control for Professional Turfgrass Managers. The document asserted that Celsius has up to 60 days of residual control, but doesn't specific what's controlled.

Is that 60 days of residual control of everything on the controlled label, and if so, at what rate do you have to apply? Which herbicide(s) in the product produce that control? The sulfonylurea?

Which leads me to some follow on questions - IF it's the sulfonylurea, can you use Celsius and any other SU herbicides are post-em/pre-ems? Where I'm going with this is, can I do a broadcast app of monument and a broadcast app later in the season of Celsius, in lieu of applying isoxaben, for broadleaf weed control?

I haven't checked the math but I don't recall isoxaben being very economical, which leads me to wonder if I can just opt out entirely of using it and have my post-ems pull double duty.


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## Greendoc

You sure can. In lieu of Isoxaben, I am a fan of broadcast Metsulfuron Methyl. In my experience, that is the most powerful pre against broadleaf weeds. If I do a clean up application on a lawn with say, Monument, Speedzone Southern, and Metsulfuron, that is a lawn devoid of broadleaf weeds for several months. I have to bite my tongue when hearing about spot spraying because the full effect of the SU herbicide is not utilized. Weeds will come up in every single spot not covered by the previous application. Broadcast spraying my SU herbicides is how I can clean up a lawn in an area with a 12 month growing season for weeds and keep it that way for a long time. The alternative is to spot spray at least once a month. What are the optics of walking around a lawn with a sprayer every month vs quickly boom spraying the whole thing and by the time it is done again, everyone forgetting I sprayed because it was several months ago?


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## Movingshrub

Do the SU herbicides have a post effect on just broadleaf weeds, their target weeds, or does it vary by herbicide? For example, monument seems to have a pre ish impact on poa annua. I wouldn't expect MSM to have a pre impact on poa annua. But I wouldn't be surprised to learn both a pre-em like control on broadleaf weeds.


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## Greendoc

It varies by herbicide. I mention MSM(Metsulfuron Methyl) because of the extreme effect it has on broadleaves. Monument and Katana probably target cool season grassy weeds quite a bit. The SU in Certainty, Iodosulfuron has effect on both grassy and broadleaf weeds. In reviewing the EPA literature on Iodosulfuron, that herbicide breaks down to Metsulfuron. Explaining its effect on broadleaf weeds. Do note, that there are some SU herbicides such as Sedgehammer and Revolver that stand out as having minimal soil effect.


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## SCGrassMan

I'm looking forward to an upcoming Celsius application. Not on my own lawn but on some neighbors I'm helping out.


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## SGrabs33

I had a few weeds lingering this spring. I hit them with a blanket spray this past weekend :thumbup:


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## rhanna

Does anyone know what the month/year refers to on the bottle?

Thanks


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## Greendoc

rhanna said:


> Does anyone know what the month/year refers to on the bottle?
> 
> Thanks


Date of manufacture. As dry granules, the chemicals have a shelf life of years. I do not like the chemicals formulated as a milky looking suspension like Dismiss. Those quickly settle out once opened and form insoluble flakes at the bottom of the bottle.


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## Llano Estacado

Any issues applying Celsius soon after applying TNex PGR?


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## Llano Estacado

How careful do I need to be with Celsius around trees?


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## Colonel K0rn

Llano Estacado said:


> Any issues applying Celsius soon after applying TNex PGR?


None that I know of. I sprayed the next day. 


Llano Estacado said:


> How careful do I need to be with Celsius around trees?


If you're using the DFW wand, you shouldn't have much drift. Don't go spraying the foliage of the trees you want to keep, it's just best to avoid them. It's not like you're spraying MSM :?


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## Movingshrub

I was thinking he meant more via volatilization or leaching.


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## Greendoc

Movingshrub said:


> I was thinking he meant more via volatilization or leaching.


Celsius is pretty mild in that aspect. There is no MSM in it and the Dicamba content and actual amount applied of it is not hazardous. Dicamba will drop trees but only if 1/2-1 lb of the pure AI is applied per acre. None of us are dealing with the 4 lb per gallon AG and VM concentrate. That is what I use at 1-2 quarts per acre when someone wants no brush in their grazed areas.


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## CenlaLowell

Does this work on St Augustine as well?


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## dfw_pilot

CenlaLowell said:


> Does this work on St Augustine as well?


Yes


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## Jericho574

How long until results should be noticed? I sprayed the max rate (probably was a bit heavy handed) almost a week ago and no noticeable change.

Also, should I hold off on any type of fertilization while it's doing its thing??


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## Movingshrub

21-28 days for death. It's a slow kill.

I can't think of a reason to hold off on fert.


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## Jericho574

Movingshrub said:


> 21-28 days for death. It's a slow kill.


  I'm moving in that time frame...I'll won't see the results


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## Jericho574

Never mind...EVERYTHING I hit is now gone lol

#CelsiusBeliever


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## Ecks from Tex

:lol:

My graphical depiction of Celsius in action


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## RandyMan

Do you guys ever get any brown up/damage on the bermuda after spraying Celsius ?Ive always used the ortho weed b gon from the box store but it always does a little damage to my bermuda .I said to my self I will never buy it again after last time.I have a few weeds and was thinking about trying out Celsius

Where is the cheapest place to buy it?


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## Redtenchu

RandyMan said:


> Do you guys ever get any brown up/damage on the bermuda after spraying Celsius ?Ive always used the ortho weed b gon from the box store but it always does a little damage to my bermuda .I said to my self I will never buy it again after last time.I have a few weeds and was thinking about trying out Celsius
> 
> Where is the cheapest place to buy it?


You may see some yellowing of the Bermuda. The yellowing will depend a lot on the application rate and daytime temperatures.

 Lawn and Pest  has it for $105 (free S&H).


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## Jeaux Bleaux

I'm assuming the yellowing would also apply to St Augustine? I treated the backyard 2 weeks ago (blanket spray), medium rate mixed with some NIS, and the entire backyard is pretty yellow. That, mixed with 6 weeks of no rain and low 90's temperatures is my guess as to the yellowing.

I was planning on doing a follow up blanket spray that was recommended 2-4 weeks after the first. But with all the discoloration, I'm very hesitant to put any more stress on the lawn. Thoughts? Should I wait on the second round? Apply any fertilizer to help w/ recovery? Finally getting some consistent rain, so that should help.


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## CenlaLowell

Is there any truth about not spraying with temps over 85 degrees?


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## Tellycoleman

SO where is the best place to get MSO?


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## Ware

Tellycoleman said:


> SO where is the best place to get MSO?


Amazon has it...

Southern Ag Methylated Seed Oil (MSO) Surfactant, 32oz - 1 Quart https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0149IA526/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Z5VeBb3MCMA1T


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## Greendoc

Jeaux Bleaux said:


> I'm assuming the yellowing would also apply to St Augustine? I treated the backyard 2 weeks ago (blanket spray), medium rate mixed with some NIS, and the entire backyard is pretty yellow. That, mixed with 6 weeks of no rain and low 90's temperatures is my guess as to the yellowing.
> 
> I was planning on doing a follow up blanket spray that was recommended 2-4 weeks after the first. But with all the discoloration, I'm very hesitant to put any more stress on the lawn. Thoughts? Should I wait on the second round? Apply any fertilizer to help w/ recovery? Finally getting some consistent rain, so that should help.


No rain, 90+ temperatures, I am assuming no irrigation and no fertilizer before the application either. Yes, that will stress the grass.


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## dfw_pilot

CenlaLowell said:


> Is there any truth about not spraying with temps over 85 degrees?


None. I spray in +100.


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## Ecks from Tex

dfw_pilot said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any truth about not spraying with temps over 85 degrees?
> 
> 
> 
> None. I spray in +100.
Click to expand...

For Bermuda.

That poster has St Augustine and he could see some stress.


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## Mightyquinn

Ecks from Tex said:


> dfw_pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any truth about not spraying with temps over 85 degrees?
> 
> 
> 
> None. I spray in +100.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For Bermuda.
> 
> That poster has St Augustine and he could see some stress.
Click to expand...

As long as there aren't any other stresses on the lawn he should be fine.


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## Ecks from Tex

Mightyquinn said:


> Ecks from Tex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dfw_pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> None. I spray in +100.
> 
> 
> 
> For Bermuda.
> 
> That poster has St Augustine and he could see some stress.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As long as there aren't any other stresses on the lawn he should be fine.
Click to expand...

It's 95 degrees and humid where I'm at. That's all it takes. If I sprayed Celsius right now (and I am going to have to in 2 weeks so I'll be glad to show you all), it would/will stunt my grass probably until the end of July. I know this because I have spent every summer for the last three years fighting off one of the most invasive weeds in the world and beating the crap out of my grass in the process.


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## Greendoc

Which weed?


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## Ecks from Tex

Greendoc said:


> Which weed?


Buttonweed and torpedo grass

It's miserable. You literally can't kill them and having them in St Aug is worse. You also cannot spray preemergent for them because it doesn't exist


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## Jeaux Bleaux

I went ahead and sprayed again yesterday morning trying to get rid of the Buttonweed. We'll see. The St Aug may not make it. On the bright side, the Bermuda in the yard is completely taking over where the weeds once were. I'm curious to see how it all turns out. I'm at the point where as long as it's grass, and not weeds I'm happy. May the strongest grass win.


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## Colonel K0rn

Jeaux Bleaux said:


> I went ahead and sprayed again yesterday morning trying to get rid of the Buttonweed. We'll see. The St Aug may not make it. On the bright side, the Bermuda in the yard is completely taking over where the weeds once were. I'm curious to see how it all turns out. I'm at the point where as long as it's grass, and not weeds I'm happy. May the strongest grass win.


Say hello to your new Bermuda lawn at its infancy. :lol:


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## dfw_pilot

Jeaux Bleaux said:


> I'm at the point where as long as it's grass, and not weeds I'm happy. May the strongest grass win.


I totally agree. If I have the choice between some weeds or stunted/yellowed grass, I'll take the grass every time.


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## Greendoc

Same here. I will brown out a lawn for a month if that is what it will take to get back to uncontaminated turf.


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## Greendoc

Ecks from Tex said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which weed?
> 
> 
> 
> Buttonweed and torpedo grass
> 
> It's miserable. You literally can't kill them and having them in St Aug is worse. You also cannot spray preemergent for them because it doesn't exist
Click to expand...

That is bad. Especially the Torpedo. Nothing selective that does not damage St Augustine. For the Buttonweed, there is MSM, but you have to be really careful with that.


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## Ecks from Tex

Greendoc said:


> Ecks from Tex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which weed?
> 
> 
> 
> Buttonweed and torpedo grass
> 
> It's miserable. You literally can't kill them and having them in St Aug is worse. You also cannot spray preemergent for them because it doesn't exist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bad. Especially the Torpedo. Nothing selective that does not damage St Augustine. For the Buttonweed, there is MSM, but you have to be really careful with that.
Click to expand...

Celsius is actually rated for buttonweed, but at the highest rate along with the notation that two applications are required. But I'll take Celsius over MSM in 95 degree temperatures with Gulf Coast humidity. I applied two weeks ago and definitely stressed the lawn; lots of browning and the areas applied were 1.5 inches shorter than zones I didn't spray. The second application here in a few weeks is going to really stress it but there's nothing I can do because untreated buttonweed will kill my lawn anyways.

You're dead on with the torpedo. I'm literally going to have to smoke whole sections of my lawn with glyphosate. If I have to kill too much in one of my zones, I'm going to give serious thought to killing off entire zones and re-sodding with zoysia. I am afraid I have too much shade for it though.


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## Success

Anyone know why domyown doesn't carry Celsius anymore?


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## RandyMan

Success said:


> Anyone know why domyown doesn't carry Celsius anymore?


Message them on youtube,They have an active channel.


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## RandyMan

Ecks from Tex said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecks from Tex said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buttonweed and torpedo grass
> 
> It's miserable. You literally can't kill them and having them in St Aug is worse. You also cannot spray preemergent for them because it doesn't exist
> 
> 
> 
> That is bad. Especially the Torpedo. Nothing selective that does not damage St Augustine. For the Buttonweed, there is MSM, but you have to be really careful with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . I applied two weeks ago and definitely stressed the lawn; lots of browning and the areas applied were 1.5 inches shorter than zones I didn't spray.
Click to expand...

Was that celsius that did that? or MSM??


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## Ecks from Tex

RandyMan said:


> Ecks from Tex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is bad. Especially the Torpedo. Nothing selective that does not damage St Augustine. For the Buttonweed, there is MSM, but you have to be really careful with that.
> 
> 
> 
> . I applied two weeks ago and definitely stressed the lawn; lots of browning and the areas applied were 1.5 inches shorter than zones I didn't spray.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was that celsius that did that? or MSM??
Click to expand...

Yes but I have St Augustine, the sissy of all grass


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## Ware

Success said:


> Anyone know why domyown doesn't carry Celsius anymore?


Probably because they weren't selling much at $150/bottle. The best price I've seen recently is $105.95 at Lawn & Pest Control Supply. Check eBay too - I see a bottle on there for $90 + $8 shipping. :thumbup:


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## rhanna

Ware said:


> Success said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know why domyown doesn't carry Celsius anymore?
> 
> 
> 
> Probably because they weren't selling much at $150/bottle. The best price I've seen recently is $105.95 at Lawn & Pest Control Supply. Check eBay too - I see a bottle on there for $90 + $8 shipping. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Just an FYI, you may want to contact the seller on ebay first to ask for the date on the bottle. I bought a bottle about a month ago and the date was 5/2017.


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## Success

This is their response:

DoMyOwn
We can no longer sell this product directly to the consumer. You have to buy it directly from the distributor.


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## Ecks from Tex

Success said:


> This is their response:
> 
> DoMyOwn
> We can no longer sell this product directly to the consumer. You have to buy it directly from the distributor.


For some reason I thought it had recently been banned in a few states (one of its active ingredients that is)


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## Crabbychas

Ecks from Tex said:


> Success said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is their response:
> 
> DoMyOwn
> We can no longer sell this product directly to the consumer. You have to buy it directly from the distributor.
> 
> 
> 
> For some reason I thought it had recently been banned in a few states (one of its active ingredients that is)
Click to expand...

I think so. I tried buying it off Amazon (sold by lawn and pest control supply)but they won't ship it to Florida. I bought it straight from Lawn and Pest Control Supply with no problem though.


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## Cavan806

I finally bit the bullet and pulled the trigger. $$ My first bottle of Celsius showed up yesterday in the mailbox. Looking forward to laying the smack down on some annoying weeds!

Cheers!


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## andymac7

Hey all, I just joined The Lawn Forum and I'm excited to learn! 

My question about Celsius is in regards to fall application. Is it safe to apply to fescue while bermuda grass is transitioning to dormancy? I want to kill off the cool season grasses and weeds that are trying to poke up through in these cooler temps.

Thanks!

(I can make this a new thread if need be)


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## dfw_pilot

Welcome to TLF! Celsius will kill the northern grass, but it works much better in warm temps.


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## Movingshrub

andymac7 said:


> Hey all, I just joined The Lawn Form and I'm excited to learn!
> 
> My question about Celsius is in regards to fall application. Is it safe to apply to fescue while bermuda grass is transitioning to dormancy? I want to kill off the cool season grasses and weeds that are trying to poke up through in these cooler temps.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> (I can make this a new thread if need be)


It's safe to apply celsius when bermuda is headed into dormancy. It works better the hotter it is. However, if the goal is to damage the fescue, it should do that and will likely take several weeks to do a complete kill.


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## andymac7

Movingshrub said:


> andymac7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey all, I just joined The Lawn Form and I'm excited to learn!
> 
> My question about Celsius is in regards to fall application. Is it safe to apply to fescue while bermuda grass is transitioning to dormancy? I want to kill off the cool season grasses and weeds that are trying to poke up through in these cooler temps.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> (I can make this a new thread if need be)
> 
> 
> 
> It's safe to apply celsius when bermuda is headed into dormancy. It works better the hotter it is. However, if the goal is to damage the fescue, it should do that and will likely take several weeks to do a complete kill.
Click to expand...

Yeah I saw today was gonna be around 70 for us and I jumped at the chance to try and kill some creeping red and KY-31. Hopefully it will clear some away. Cool season grasses are wimpy most of the year here in Ohio river valley. Plus, my personal opinion is that KY-31 is just terrible to look at. Hoping for the bermuda to take over next year!


----------



## TN Hawkeye

andymac7 said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> andymac7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey all, I just joined The Lawn Form and I'm excited to learn!
> 
> My question about Celsius is in regards to fall application. Is it safe to apply to fescue while bermuda grass is transitioning to dormancy? I want to kill off the cool season grasses and weeds that are trying to poke up through in these cooler temps.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> (I can make this a new thread if need be)
> 
> 
> 
> It's safe to apply celsius when bermuda is headed into dormancy. It works better the hotter it is. However, if the goal is to damage the fescue, it should do that and will likely take several weeks to do a complete kill.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah I saw today was gonna be around 70 for us and I jumped at the chance to try and kill some creeping red and KY-31. Hopefully it will clear some away. Cool season grasses are wimpy most of the year here in Ohio river valley. Plus, my personal opinion is that KY-31 is just terrible to look at. Hoping for the bermuda to take over next year!
Click to expand...

I used it for the exact reason you have described. Unfortunately I used a surfactant and it was a little hot. It stunted the Bermuda but it has recovered. It will definately put a hurting on cool season grass. With temps where they are now it will be a very slow kill but you should be happy with the results. Just make sure you have your measurements right. A little goes a long way.


----------



## TigerinFL

best stuff out there for Virginia Buttonweed


----------



## andymac7

TN Hawkeye said:


> I used it for the exact reason you have described. Unfortunately I used a surfactant and it was a little hot. It stunted the Bermuda but it has recovered. It will definately put a hurting on cool season grass. With temps where they are now it will be a very slow kill but you should be happy with the results. Just make sure you have your measurements right. A little goes a long way.


Hawkeye, I mixed 1.5 tsp in 2 gallons. I know that's on the high side, but with the temps being a bit cool, I wanted it to work also . What rate do you use?


----------



## TN Hawkeye

andymac7 said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used it for the exact reason you have described. Unfortunately I used a surfactant and it was a little hot. It stunted the Bermuda but it has recovered. It will definately put a hurting on cool season grass. With temps where they are now it will be a very slow kill but you should be happy with the results. Just make sure you have your measurements right. A little goes a long way.
> 
> 
> 
> Hawkeye, I mixed 1.5 tsp in 2 gallons. I know that's on the high side, but with the temps being a bit cool, I wanted it to work also . What rate do you use?
Click to expand...

I went with a medium rate (.085 in the included measuring cup per thousand). It was not that hot when I sprayed but it got hot before it got watered in.


----------



## gkaneko

I love celsius to kill carpet grass. Otherwise I have found it really hard to get rid of.


----------



## Austinite

How well does it work in cold weather?


----------



## high leverage

Austinite said:


> How well does it work in cold weather?


Slowwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!


----------



## andymac7

high leverage said:


> Austinite said:
> 
> 
> 
> How well does it work in cold weather?
> 
> 
> 
> Slowwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

I can vouch for this. I tried to kill off some fescue 2 months ago with it, and it's just now turning brown! It was only about 65 degrees out at the time.


----------



## high leverage

andymac7 said:


> high leverage said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Austinite said:
> 
> 
> 
> How well does it work in cold weather?
> 
> 
> 
> Slowwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can vouch for this. I tried to kill off some fescue 2 months ago with it, and it's just now turning brown! It was only about 65 degrees out at the time.
Click to expand...

Killing Fescue with Celsius = suppression not control (kill). It will be back. To truly kill fescue you'll need Revolver, Katana, Monument, Tribute Total (the Revolver portion does the killing), or a non-selective herb. And even then to achieve complete control (100% kill) you'll probably need two apps minimum.

I personally blanketed a few customers lawns with Katana in the spring to kill off Fescue. While I thought I achieved complete control (kill) once the Bermuda went dormant this fall/ winter a few rogue Fescue remained. I'll be blanketing glyphosate at 32oz per acre in late January/ early Feb to hopefully get the remainder.


----------



## andymac7

high leverage said:


> andymac7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> high leverage said:
> 
> 
> 
> Slowwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> I can vouch for this. I tried to kill off some fescue 2 months ago with it, and it's just now turning brown! It was only about 65 degrees out at the time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Killing Fescue with Celsius = suppression not control (kill). It will be back. To truly kill fescue you'll need Revolver, Katana, Monument, Tribute Total (the Revolver portion does the killing), or a non-selective herb. And even then to achieve complete control (100% kill) you'll probably need two apps minimum.
> 
> I personally blanketed a few customers lawns with Katana in the spring to kill off Fescue. While I thought I achieved complete control (kill) once the Bermuda went dormant this fall/ winter a few rogue Fescue remained. I'll be blanketing glyphosate at 32oz per acre in late January/ early Feb to hopefully get the remainder.
Click to expand...

Interesting @high leverage. I've been tempted to try glyph on my dormant Yukon, but haven't pulled the trigger. I've read where others notice "stunted" growth or delayed green up, even with apparent full dormancy. Is there a certain low temp I should look for in order to apply? We've still not been below 20 here.


----------



## high leverage

The use of Glypho is somewhat controversial on here. And I personally have gone both ways. I'm now on the side that uses it. I do applications commercially. It's a cost benefit analysis for commercial applicators, golf courses, and homeowners. Clients pay to have a weed free lawn 12 moths out of the year. To achieve this in winter when dealing with winter grassy weeds our options are either using expensive ($100+ per acre) sulfonylureas (Katana, Monument, Revolver, ect...) or glyphosate (around $5 per acre). It just no viable commercially (cost per application) to blanket customers lawns and golf courses with these expensive sulfonylureas.

I blanket spray every customers lawn in round 1, 3, and 7. I prefer not to play hide and seek with weeds durning these periods. Spot spraying = hide and seek. Call backs due to missed weeds and/or weeds that are too small to see because they are hidden beneath the dormant Bermuda cost me more time/labor than the added cost of blanket apps.

It consensus is if you do use Glypho it recommended to blanket vs. spot due to the possibility of spotty lawn due to delayed green up. The link below addresses this situation.

https://www.turffiles.ncsu.edu/2017...n-slightly-greened-up-bermudagrass-in-winter/


----------



## andymac7

high leverage said:


> The use of Glypho is somewhat controversial on here. And I personally have gone both ways. I'm now on the side that uses it. I do applications commercially. It's a cost benefit analysis for commercial applicators, golf courses, and homeowners. Clients pay to have a weed free lawn 12 moths out of the year. To achieve this in winter when dealing with winter grassy weeds our options are either using expensive ($100+ per acre) sulfonylureas (Katana, Monument, Revolver, ect...) or glyphosate (around $5 per acre). It just no viable commercially (cost per application) to blanket customers lawns and golf courses with these expensive sulfonylureas.
> 
> I blanket spray every customers lawn in round 1, 3, and 7. I prefer not to play hide and seek with weeds durning these periods. Spot spraying = hide and seek. Call backs due to missed weeds and/or weeds that are too small to see because they are hidden beneath the dormant Bermuda cost me more time/labor than the added cost of blanket apps.
> 
> It consensus is if you do use Glypho it recommended to blanket vs. spot due to the possibility of spotty lawn due to delayed green up. The link below addresses this situation.
> 
> https://www.turffiles.ncsu.edu/2017...n-slightly-greened-up-bermudagrass-in-winter/


Very interesting indeed @high leverage. So basically (and I know we're technically veering off topic a bit) it's just a balancing act with glypho and bermuda.

I have a theory though, and feel free to tell me if it's faulty...

Cool season grasses obviously grow well in temps even down in the 40's, and some of them I'd even say grow quite quickly at those temps. In my lawn, red fescue seems to be happy as can be at 40-50. So, I'm always seeing the line "apply when weeds are actively growing" on the glypho label. Doesn't this mean I can spray away when it's in the 40's and my bermuda will be unscathed? And wouldn't this also mean that RF, rye, the dreaded KY-31, and others will be fully fried? If it's true that glypho works when plants are "actively growing", then why wait until it's 70 and my bermuda is waking up?


----------



## high leverage

You are further North than I am by a few degree Latitude 36 vs 38.7. I think it's safe to bet if you apply glypho in January/ February you should experience no ill effects. Pick any day durning that two month window when the temps reach the 60's if possible and spray away. The glypho will be more effective the warmer the temp. It's going to work slowly. But all herbicides work slow in cool temps. Reassess the results over the next 30-45 days. What ever remains follow with one of the sulfonylureas listed above if anything is still alive. Your Bermuda will more than likely be in the transition stage at that time. So there comes the balancing act on wether to use any herbicide durning that period or wait for complete green up.

The books tell you not to apply anything to the Bermuda while transitioning. Again I apply herbicides to make money and can't always wait on the weather or the grass. But I have experienced little if any negative effects from apply selective herbicides durning transition. I do steer clear on Glypho and Atrazine durning green up. But anything else is free game. Also keep in mind 95% of all bermuda I treat are of the common varieties. For what ever reason hybrids are few and far between in my area.


----------



## andymac7

high leverage said:


> You are further North than I am by a few degree Latitude 36 vs 38.7. I think it's safe to bet if you apply glypho in January/ February you should experience no ill effects. Pick any day durning that two month window when the temps reach the 60's if possible and spray away. The glypho will be more effective the warmer the temp. It's going to work slowly. But all herbicides work slow in cool temps. Reassess the results over the next 30-45 days. What ever remains follow with one of the sulfonylureas listed above if anything is still alive. Your Bermuda will more than likely be in the transition stage at that time. So there comes the balancing act on wether to use any herbicide durning that period or wait for complete green up.
> 
> The books tell you not to apply anything to the Bermuda while transitioning. Again I apply herbicides to make money and can't always wait on the weather or the grass. But I have experienced little if any negative effects from apply selective herbicides durning transition. I do steer clear on Glypho and Atrazine durning green up. But anything else is free game. Also keep in mind 95% of all bermuda I treat are of the common varieties. For what ever reason hybrids are few and far between in my area.


ok, thanks for the good info!

Ok y'all I apologize, proceed with the actual topic.


----------



## Movingshrub

I'm surprised how controversial blanket glyphosate apps seem to be; Bermuda is REALLY hard to kill.


----------



## andymac7

Movingshrub said:


> I'm surprised how controversial blanket glyphosate apps seem to be; Bermuda is REALLY hard to kill.


Come on man, you know it's more than about just killing it on here.  Lol. I'm taking a wild guess that there could be some people that are a little obsessed with a perfectly uniform Augusta National-type lawn.  (as in NO discoloration of any kind come green up).


----------



## Austinite

Can't wait to use this stuff next year. If use it now but knowing how slow it works in cool weather would drive me nuts. I only have Parsley Piert to deal with and it's not that bad. But hoping Celsius can put and end to it because nothing the big box store has worked.


----------



## dfw_pilot

Austinite said:


> But hoping Celsius can put and end to it because nothing the big box store has worked.


That's why I'm such a big fan of it. It works, and it's cheaper per app than stuff that won't work in the big box stores. :thumbup:


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

Maybe you could add diquat as a kicker to help speed up burndown. Not sure how that will affect the bermuda though.


----------



## rhanna

How effective will Celsius be against wild garlic and henbit right now?


----------



## CenlaLowell

rhanna said:


> How effective will Celsius be against wild garlic and henbit right now?


It's labeled to kill both. I have this problem now and I'm trying roundup for southern lawns and MSM turf. I'm saving Celsius for the spring.

Label here
https://www.domyown.com/msds/Celsius%20WG%20Herbicide%20Label.pdf


----------



## andymac7

Sooo... I'm a bit nervous. I left my container of Celsius in the garage last night and it got down to 5 degrees! . Yes the garage is a good bit warmer, I don't know the exact amount, but I had some potted plants out there and their soil froze a bit. Should I be concerned about it possibly getting frozen some? I checked other things like my Lazer dye, glyphosate and surfactant, and none of them were frozen.

While I'm on the subject of storage, what seems to be the optimal temperature and/or location for Celsius? And this might be a silly question, but does indoor lights in general have any negative effects?

As you can tell, this herbicide is high on my list to keep in good condition. Lol


----------



## Mightyquinn

I think you will be fine as it is a solid and not a liquid so I think temperature has less of an effect on it. I think you are fine with indoor lights on it, if it was sensitive to light it would be in an opaque bottle. I have a bottle that is going on 9 years old right now and it still works just as good as the day I bought it. I kept it in the garage in a cabinet for the first part of it's life and then moved it to an interior closet in the garage which has a more stable temperature through the year.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

This is probably a dumb question but I can't find the answer to it. I'm using celcius for the first time. I know it's January but I've got a terrible weed problem and that and prodiamine will hopefully make this spring not so bad. It hasn't been cold enough to kill the broad leaf weeds and I'm concerned it's just not going to happen this season. Anyway, I read that I should water after the prodiamine but I don't know if I need to water in the Celcius. It's in the mid-50s to low 60s this week. It just got done raining yesterday so things are still somewhat wet. It's not supposed to rain for the next week. Any advice on watering? Do I need to?


----------



## CenlaLowell

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> This is probably a dumb question but I can't find the answer to it. I'm using celcius for the first time. I know it's January but I've got a terrible weed problem and that and prodiamine will hopefully make this spring not so bad. It hasn't been cold enough to kill the broad leaf weeds and I'm concerned it's just not going to happen this season. Anyway, I read that I should water after the prodiamine but I don't know if I need to water in the Celcius. It's in the mid-50s to low 60s this week. It just got done raining yesterday so things are still somewhat wet. It's not supposed to rain for the next week. Any advice on watering? Do I need to?


Don't use Celsius in January from my trial on a empty lot I've noticed Celsius works ALOT better in warmer temps.

You have 14 days to water in prodiamine, so just wait for a rain window.

Do not water Celsius. It needs to be taken in through the leaf tissue.

Advice I would wait until I cut my grass twice before applying Celsius. Depending on your location you can throw your prodiamine sometime between now and March 15 at the latest. Remember this is a marathon not a Sprint. It's easy to look at others lawns and get caught up rushing to get those results. Most of the guys on here have invested many of years to get there yard that great.


----------



## Buyanet

How long does Celsius take to work? I sprayed it on Thursday (today is Sunday) and while I do see a lot of dandelions and henbit for instance quilting over in pain, some still look normal as you can see in the pic. Is that a result of the crappy sprayer I have and inadequate coverage? I used the middle rate and exactly 1 gallon covered 1k sq ft so I didn't have any left over in the tank.


----------



## Ware

@Buyanet it takes longer than 3 days.


----------



## Buyanet

Ware said:


> @Buyanet it takes longer than 3 days.


Actually just finished reading through this thread. It'd work quicker if it was warmer. Temps have been up and down between 45 and 75 lol.

This being my first year doing anything like this and getting into it .... I have to train my brain to remember it's a marathon and not a sprint


----------



## Ware

An excerpt from DoMyOwn's product page:



> Symptoms progress from yellowing to necrosis resulting in plant death within 1-4 weeks after application. The speed of symptom development varies with temperature and will be faster at warmer temperatures. For best results to control mature weeds, apply when the daily average temperature is above 60° F. Make applications to actively growing weeds. Weed control may be reduced if application is made in the presence of heavy dew, fog, and mist/rain or when weeds are under stress due to drought.


----------



## CenlaLowell

Buyanet said:


> How long does Celsius take to work? I sprayed it on Thursday (today is Sunday) and while I do see a lot of dandelions and henbit for instance quilting over in pain, some still look normal as you can see in the pic. Is that a result of the crappy sprayer I have and inadequate coverage? I used the middle rate and exactly 1 gallon covered 1k sq ft so I didn't have any left over in the tank.


Usually it takes anywhere from 7-14 days in my yard. Trust me it's worth the wait.


----------



## SCGrassMan

Speedzone Southern has dicamba in it which is one of the ingredients in Celsius. Has 2,4D and some other stuff too. That's what I would be spraying now - Speedzone, MSM, and Prodiamine.


----------



## Tmank87

What is MSM? I've tried to search but with no luck. 
Just got some Celsius and Certainty. Was going to mix the two together but sounds like I'll hold off on Celsius until we warm up a bit.

Does Certainty have temperature restrictions and can one mix with MSM?

Thx


----------



## CenlaLowell

Tmank87 said:


> What is MSM? I've tried to search but with no luck.
> Just got some Celsius and Certainty. Was going to mix the two together but sounds like I'll hold off on Celsius until we warm up a bit.
> 
> Does Certainty have temperature restrictions and can one mix with MSM?
> 
> Thx


https://www.domyown.com/msm-turf-herbicide-p-18053.html

I just used this as it's label for henbit, clover, etc. A very little goes a long way, so read the label.

Correct Celsius does much better in warmer temps.

No idea about Certainty I haven't ordered mine yet


----------



## SCGrassMan

Correct - like 0.04 per M


----------



## Tmank87

Thanks guys


----------



## Buyanet

Was thinking of putting down Celsius today in the front, but this weather forecast / temps I think have me waiting. Can't stand to look at those huge weeds in the front though. Sunny today, partly cloudy tomorrow, and then rain and cold again.


----------



## andymac7

I know Celsius isn't labeled to kill Star of Bethlehem, but has anyone tried spraying it? It's really bad in my yard right now. I know it's a perennial, so a pre-em is no-go.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

andymac7 said:


> I know Celsius isn't labeled to kill Star of Bethlehem, but has anyone tried spraying it? It's really bad in my yard right now. I know it's a perennial, so a pre-em is no-go.


Sulfentrazone?


----------



## high leverage

andymac7 said:


> I know Celsius isn't labeled to kill Star of Bethlehem, but has anyone tried spraying it? It's really bad in my yard right now. I know it's a perennial, so a pre-em is no-go.


It's February and you live in Ohio. There is no reason to be apply Celsius to anything this time of year. Glyphosate the whole yard and eliminate the Star of Bethlehem quick and cheap.


----------



## andymac7

high leverage said:


> andymac7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know Celsius isn't labeled to kill Star of Bethlehem, but has anyone tried spraying it? It's really bad in my yard right now. I know it's a perennial, so a pre-em is no-go.
> 
> 
> 
> It's February and you live in Ohio. There is no reason to be apply Celsius to anything this time of year. Glyphosate the whole yard and eliminate the Star of Bethlehem quick and cheap.
Click to expand...

It's in the 60's here today, and when I've sprayed Celsius before at these temps, it took out wild onion for me, albeit slowly. I may have mentioned before @high leverage but I'm still in the process of getting my Yukon bermuda to take over, so I don't want there to be a chance of a setback from glypho upon green-up. I know, I know.. it's a controversial subject and I'm on it again, :roll: , but, I just want my bermuda to grow like insanity this spring.


----------



## high leverage

andymac7 said:


> high leverage said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> andymac7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know Celsius isn't labeled to kill Star of Bethlehem, but has anyone tried spraying it? It's really bad in my yard right now. I know it's a perennial, so a pre-em is no-go.
> 
> 
> 
> It's February and you live in Ohio. There is no reason to be apply Celsius to anything this time of year. Glyphosate the whole yard and eliminate the Star of Bethlehem quick and cheap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's in the 60's here today, and when I've sprayed Celsius before at these temps, it took out wild onion for me, albeit slowly. I may have mentioned before @high leverage but I'm still in the process of getting my Yukon bermuda to take over, so I don't want there to be a chance of a setback from glypho upon green-up. I know, I know.. it's a controversial subject and I'm on it again, :roll: , but, I just want my bermuda to grow like insanity this spring.
Click to expand...

It get's expensive if you are against using glyphosate in winter. For control of the Star of Bethlehem you'll need to step up to Carfentrazone (Quicksilver) at 4oz/ acre.

$150 for an 8oz bottle or roughly $75 per acre at that rate to control Star of Bethlehem. 
Compared to Glyphosate at $4.40 per acre.

$75 or $4.40 ? I know which one I'd choose.


----------



## Ware

Note there is a potential Quicksilver split in the exchange subforum.


----------



## Teej

Kballen11 said:


> What is a good sprayer that anyone would recommend?


I recently picked up the Chapin 24v backpack sprayer and love it. I came from a 2 gallon Scott's pump sprayer though. Don't think you can beat always having a steady stream.


----------



## Ware

Teej said:


> I recently picked up the Chapin 24v backpack sprayer and love it. I came from a 2 gallon Scott's pump sprayer though. Don't think you can beat always having a steady stream.


Welcome to TLF! Several members here have had troubles with their Chapin 20V. That said, I have one and it has been great. :thumbsup:


----------



## soonersfan4512

Ware said:


> Teej said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recently picked up the Chapin 24v backpack sprayer and love it. I came from a 2 gallon Scott's pump sprayer though. Don't think you can beat always having a steady stream.
> 
> 
> 
> Welcome to TLF! Several members here have had troubles with their Chapin 20V. That said, I have one and it has been great. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

No issues with my 20v Chapin either. I just wish I could use it more...


----------



## Buyanet

This is 7 days after application of Celsius at the medium rate .... The temps have been an average of 71 degrees with no rain besides the 0.3" of sprinkling I did 2 days ago for the Bifen. Avg Soil Temp in my area is 58.2 degrees currently in the past 5 days.

Is this slow progress usual? I know I've seen it can take 7-21 days, but the fact some look untouched has me a bit head scratching. I am starting to think my Medium rate (0.085 oz / 1k sq ft.) wasn't enough.


----------



## CenlaLowell

Buyanet said:


> This is 7 days after application of Celsius at the medium rate .... The temps have been an average of 71 degrees with no rain besides the 0.3" of sprinkling I did 2 days ago for the Bifen. Avg Soil Temp in my area is 58.2 degrees currently in the past 5 days.
> 
> Is this slow progress usual? I know I've seen it can take 7-21 days, but the fact some look untouched has me a bit head scratching. I am starting to think my Medium rate (0.085 oz / 1k sq ft.) wasn't enough.


Question, are the weeds your trying to kill listed on the label at the medium rate?

If so, give it at least 21 days before moving to anything else. Also take pictures every 7 days to document the progress.

Last did you use a MSO with the Celsius?


----------



## Buyanet

CenlaLowell said:


> Buyanet said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is 7 days after application of Celsius at the medium rate .... The temps have been an average of 71 degrees with no rain besides the 0.3" of sprinkling I did 2 days ago for the Bifen. Avg Soil Temp in my area is 58.2 degrees currently in the past 5 days.
> 
> Is this slow progress usual? I know I've seen it can take 7-21 days, but the fact some look untouched has me a bit head scratching. I am starting to think my Medium rate (0.085 oz / 1k sq ft.) wasn't enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Question, are the weeds your trying to kill listed on the label at the medium rate?
> 
> If so, give it at least 21 days before moving to anything else. Also take pictures every 7 days to document the progress.
> 
> Last did you use a MSO with the Celsius?
Click to expand...

Yes, they are. Mainly Dandelion and Henbit, both of which are listed actually for the lower rate even.

As far as MSO, are you talking about a surfactant? If so, yes, I used Southern AG Surfactant for Herbicides at 1.75 teaspoons per gallon.


----------



## CenlaLowell

Buyanet said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buyanet said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is 7 days after application of Celsius at the medium rate .... The temps have been an average of 71 degrees with no rain besides the 0.3" of sprinkling I did 2 days ago for the Bifen. Avg Soil Temp in my area is 58.2 degrees currently in the past 5 days.
> 
> Is this slow progress usual? I know I've seen it can take 7-21 days, but the fact some look untouched has me a bit head scratching. I am starting to think my Medium rate (0.085 oz / 1k sq ft.) wasn't enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Question, are the weeds your trying to kill listed on the label at the medium rate?
> 
> If so, give it at least 21 days before moving to anything else. Also take pictures every 7 days to document the progress.
> 
> Last did you use a MSO with the Celsius?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, they are. Mainly Dandelion and Henbit, both of which are listed actually for the lower rate even.
> 
> As far as MSO, are you talking about a surfactant? If so, yes, I used Southern AG Surfactant for Herbicides at 1.75 teaspoons per gallon.
Click to expand...

Okay, just give it time it definitely should work. I've had plenty of success with CELSIUS so you should see some good results. Keep us posted.


----------



## krubs

Any benefit to using Celsius vs big box store weed killers? I've had success with Ortho weed b gon and it's like $8 a bottle


----------



## CenlaLowell

krubs said:


> Any benefit to using Celsius vs big box store weed killers? I've had success with Ortho weed b gon and it's like $8 a bottle


When you use Celsius you will realize that big box store stuff is not even in the same ballpark.


----------



## adgattoni

krubs said:


> Any benefit to using Celsius vs big box store weed killers? I've had success with Ortho weed b gon and it's like $8 a bottle


$8 per bottle is expensive compared to $100 per lifetime with Celsius.


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## TN Hawkeye

adgattoni said:


> krubs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any benefit to using Celsius vs big box store weed killers? I've had success with Ortho weed b gon and it's like $8 a bottle
> 
> 
> 
> $8 per bottle is expensive compared to $100 per lifetime with Celsius.
Click to expand...

Very true. The upfront cost is higher but the long term cost is much lower. The Celsius is around $110-$120. You can get about 15 of the weed b got bottles for that price. Each bottle treats 5000 square feet. So you get about 75,000 square feet of treatment for $120. You get 88,000 square feet of treatment at the high rate with Celsius. And the majority of the time you are not going to spray at the high rate.


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## andymac7

high leverage said:


> andymac7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> high leverage said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's February and you live in Ohio. There is no reason to be apply Celsius to anything this time of year. Glyphosate the whole yard and eliminate the Star of Bethlehem quick and cheap.
> 
> 
> 
> It's in the 60's here today, and when I've sprayed Celsius before at these temps, it took out wild onion for me, albeit slowly. I may have mentioned before @high leverage but I'm still in the process of getting my Yukon bermuda to take over, so I don't want there to be a chance of a setback from glypho upon green-up. I know, I know.. it's a controversial subject and I'm on it again, :roll: , but, I just want my bermuda to grow like insanity this spring.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It get's expensive if you are against using glyphosate in winter. For control of the Star of Bethlehem you'll need to step up to Carfentrazone (Quicksilver) at 4oz/ acre.
> 
> $150 for an 8oz bottle or roughly $75 per acre at that rate to control Star of Bethlehem.
> Compared to Glyphosate at $4.40 per acre.
> 
> $75 or $4.40 ? I know which one I'd choose.
Click to expand...

So.. I spot sprayed with Glyph in February.

NEVER again.

I STILL have spray patches all over the front yard, and ironically the Star of Bethlehem still looks half alive!! Very frustrating. So from now on, it's ONLY Pre-em and Celsius and that's it. I'm definitely on the Anti-Glyph team now.


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## andymac7

Sorry to post this quick again, but as for Celsius- does anyone know if it's ok to spray Sedgehammer today when I just sprayed Celsius yesterday?


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## dfw_pilot

I mix Celsius and Certainty with no problem. So spraying for sedge today will be no problem.

Sorry about your glyphosate - that's why most of us don't recommend using it over the winter or over major areas unless you want to kill everything. Water and nitrogen will help those spots fill back in quickly.


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## andymac7

dfw_pilot said:


> I mix Celsius and Certainty with no problem. So spraying for sedge today will be no problem.
> 
> Sorry about your glyphosate - that's why most of us don't recommend using it over the winter or over major areas unless you want to kill everything. Water and nitrogen will help those spots fill back in quickly.


Thanks for the quick response @dfw_pilot!

Sedge was absolutely horrendous last year with all of the rain. It must die.

No worries on the glyph. Live and learn. And I swear the bermuda looked completely dormant when I sprayed. Oh well. Yeah, I'm gonna feed it well so it should be fine.


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## lvlikeyv

andymac7 said:


> Sorry to post this quick again, but as for Celsius- does anyone know if it's OK to spray Sedge hammer today when I just sprayed Celsius yesterday?


I did this exact thing this past Sunday (5/5/2019) I did not see any crazy reactions going on in the tank. I also read on this forum other people doing it as well. I'll update if if my grass turns purple.

I did a high rate app of Celsius at the beginning of March. It knocked out 80% of the weeds and hit the Poa Annua pretty hard but did not completely knock it out. It was somewhat frustrating to see new shoots pooping up especially after the pre e and Celsius App. I have to remind myself though that I am combating several years of absolutely ZERO maintenance and need to be patient. I also missed my fall Pre E treatment.

Here is a picture showing a good portion of my lawn is brown several weeks after the high rate Celsius app which would be a bad thing, but that portion was nothing but weeds.


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## bmw

Does Celsius take out Chamerbitter? Is it safe on a Centipede lawn?


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## dfw_pilot

@bmw, I don't have it in front of me but just check the label to know for sure.

@lvlikeyv, I use certainty to knock out Poa.


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## high leverage

andymac7 said:


> high leverage said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> andymac7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's in the 60's here today, and when I've sprayed Celsius before at these temps, it took out wild onion for me, albeit slowly. I may have mentioned before @high leverage but I'm still in the process of getting my Yukon bermuda to take over, so I don't want there to be a chance of a setback from glypho upon green-up. I know, I know.. it's a controversial subject and I'm on it again, :roll: , but, I just want my bermuda to grow like insanity this spring.
> 
> 
> 
> It get's expensive if you are against using glyphosate in winter. For control of the Star of Bethlehem you'll need to step up to Carfentrazone (Quicksilver) at 4oz/ acre.
> 
> $150 for an 8oz bottle or roughly $75 per acre at that rate to control Star of Bethlehem.
> Compared to Glyphosate at $4.40 per acre.
> 
> $75 or $4.40 ? I know which one I'd choose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So.. I spot sprayed with Glyph in February.
> 
> NEVER again.
> 
> I STILL have spray patches all over the front yard, and ironically the Star of Bethlehem still looks half alive!! Very frustrating. So from now on, it's ONLY Pre-em and Celsius and that's it. I'm definitely on the Anti-Glyph team now.
Click to expand...

It's been stated over and over and over and over. Never spot spray glyphosate. Only blanket apps.

In fact I blanketed glyphosate on a lawn at 44oz per acre on April 2 here in Oklahoma and have noticed very little if any delay in green up. If fact it is full green at this point in time.


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## lvlikeyv

dfw_pilot said:


> @bmw, I don't have it in front of me but just check the label to know for sure.
> 
> @lvlikeyv, I use certainty to knock out Poa.


Thanks for the heads up!

That will likely be a next season purchase as this is my first season of lawn care and I already purchased Celsius, Prodiamine, 5 gallon sprayer, and a push reel mower.

I did however see a bill from a lawn care company's Pre Emergent treatment and my route is definitely more cost effective in the long run.


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## andymac7

high leverage said:


> andymac7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> high leverage said:
> 
> 
> 
> It get's expensive if you are against using glyphosate in winter. For control of the Star of Bethlehem you'll need to step up to Carfentrazone (Quicksilver) at 4oz/ acre.
> 
> $150 for an 8oz bottle or roughly $75 per acre at that rate to control Star of Bethlehem.
> Compared to Glyphosate at $4.40 per acre.
> 
> $75 or $4.40 ? I know which one I'd choose.
> 
> 
> 
> So.. I spot sprayed with Glyph in February.
> 
> NEVER again.
> 
> I STILL have spray patches all over the front yard, and ironically the Star of Bethlehem still looks half alive!! Very frustrating. So from now on, it's ONLY Pre-em and Celsius and that's it. I'm definitely on the Anti-Glyph team now.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's been stated over and over and over and over. Never spot spray glyphosate. Only blanket apps.
> 
> In fact I blanketed glyphosate on a lawn at 44oz per acre on April 2 here in Oklahoma and have noticed very little if any delay in green up. If fact it is full green at this point in time.
Click to expand...

Lol I think you've made your point about how many times it was stated. Thanks..

I don't think I have to explain the photo I posted. You see the results.

So then, if I would have blanket sprayed, EVERYTHING would look like the spots in the picture above. That means on May 8, I would have had virtually NO green.

No thanks.

Look, I get it. I do. Bermuda rebounds quickly. But I don't want to blanket spray glyph in winter, then have to wait until June for full green up.

@high leverage I will defer to you on being the expert, but for me, no more winter glyph. Period. But I do appreciate the info and insight.


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## andymac7

Hey everyone,

Quick question: How soon can I spray Celsius in newly sprouted Zenith Zoysia?


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## Stellar P

Had Crabgrass growing through some cracks between flagstone that extends into the backyard.

*3/23 - Sprayed with Celsius (2.5 oz per gallon mix)​*Chapin 20V - XR TEEJET 11003 VS

No before pics. I allowed the crabgrass to become established and healthy before the application, removing any seeding stalks when I saw them. It was a beast of a specimen.

- No considerable rainfall up to 7 days after application. NOAA County Data shows (excluded data under 0.20") :
4/4: 0.88"
4/5: 0.35"
4/10: 0.80"
4/19: 0.71"​- Surfactant used.
- Standard 1 pass coverage at knee height.
- Foilage not cut after application

*Temperature Pattern (3/23 - 4/21)​*




*First 2-3 weeks​*Crabgrass went downhill and looked to be headed for death. A lot of wilting and purple discoloration in the foliage.

*4/21 - 4 weeks Post Application​*Current state. New growth observed. 2nd application will be soon.


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## CamaroGuy

Two questions:

First, for one gallon of water per 1,000 sq ft, what would be the amount of Celsius for a medium app? I'll be using teaspoons as measurement.

Second, can I mix Dismiss with the Celsius, again at a medium rate of 1 gallon per 1,000 sf?

I'm looking for compatibility.


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## Darth_V8r

A teaspoon is going to be quite strong. 6 oz per acre is the medium rate IIRC. that's about .14-.15 ounces per 1ksf. Gonna want to use a diet scale, imo


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## xraydesigns

Does anyone have enough celciusbto split?


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## Mightyquinn

xraydesigns said:


> Does anyone have enough celciusbto split?


I believe this is where you would like to ask that question. Celsius WG Exchange


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## southernguy311

Love to see old
Threads come back to life


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## Ware

southernguy311 said:


> Love to see old
> Threads come back to life


Love to see old members come back to life!

Welcome back! :thumbup:


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## southernguy311

Hey Ware!!! I took a bit of time away. Real life >reel life.


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