# Soil Test Results - How did P get so high??



## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Recommendations? I took the soil sample when ground had unfrozen, but is covered in snow now. Grass hasn't started growing yet. Sample is not a composite, only from one location under tree and shaded by large sound wall to the south, I've had trouble getting grass to stick there.

Clearly need to bring pH up. I've seen solucal as a recommendation, anyone know where to get it in NJ?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

There is one big problem with using Soil Savvy. The results are not accurate. Look at the back page of the report. It says that their ph is 0.5 unit lower than most test. Further down, it also says their data from their process may not represent actual in-field conditions and that the optimal ranges need to be adjusted to you location. How should the user adjust the ranges? It is not explained. At $30 is an expensive test that yields inaccurate results.

I would recommend getting your soil samples from a reputable lab. Ridgerunner shared a list of some labs to use.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Welcome to TLF!


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Jconnelly6b said:


> Clearly need to bring pH up.


I like MAG-I-CAL to raise pH. I do 2 apps @9lbs/k. One in the Spring then another one in the Fall.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

g-man said:


> There is one big problem with using Soil Savvy. The results are not accurate. Look at the back page of the report. It says that their ph is 0.5 unit lower than most test. Further down, it also says their data from their process may not represent actual in-field conditions and that the optimal ranges need to be adjusted to you location. How should the user adjust the ranges? It is not explained. At $30 is an expensive test that yields inaccurate results.
> 
> I would recommend getting your soil samples from a reputable lab. Ridgerunner shared a list of some labs to use.


Well damn! What's up with LCN hawking soil savvy on his channel like it's the bees knees?? I guess I'll send some samples off to Rutgers and pay a little extra. Should I wait until the soil wakes up and starts some activity? I applied 30-0-05 as my winterizer so didn't put down any P, and only used milo in the fall. Not really sure how P is that high.


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## desirous (Dec 15, 2017)

Jconnelly6b said:


> Clearly need to bring pH up. I've seen solucal as a recommendation, anyone know where to get it in NJ?


https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sta-Green-30-lb-Lime-Balance-Soil/50189499. Sta-Green Rapid-Lime is Solu-Cal (packaged for Lowes).


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

I'm trying the soil savvy this year as the sent me one to try. I'll let you know how it compares.

The difference is in the philosophy of the test, they came up with some way to measure what nutrients are available to the plant whereas other tests tell you what nutrients are in the soil.

What it comes down to is chemistry which I partially understand. It's possible for certain nutrients to be bound in the soil in a way that isn't available to the plants. So if you test the soil you have to know what elements cause other elements to bind up.


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## Gorgonzola17 (Feb 28, 2018)

GrassDaddy said:


> I'm trying the soil savvy this year as the sent me one to try. I'll let you know how it compares.
> 
> The difference is in the philosophy of the test, they came up with some way to measure what nutrients are available to the plant whereas other tests tell you what nutrients are in the soil.
> 
> What it comes down to is chemistry which I partially understand. It's possible for certain nutrients to be bound in the soil in a way that isn't available to the plants. So if you test the soil you have to know what elements cause other elements to bind up.


 I just bought the soil saavy test after watching your video last night. Looks like a new, interesting way to test. Will see how it goes. Did you get your results back yet?? When you do, you should post another video. I find your videos to be very informative.


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## MarkAguglia (Jul 13, 2017)

I'm sure Grass Daddy will review the results on YouTube! Looking forward to it. I was gifted a Soil Savvy last week. Haha


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## Gorgonzola17 (Feb 28, 2018)

MarkAguglia said:


> I'm sure Grass Daddy will review the results on YouTube! Looking forward to it. I was gifted a Soil Savvy last week. Haha


 Why is everyone getting a gift and I'm getting nothing... :lol:


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## MarkAguglia (Jul 13, 2017)

It was a (very odd) birthday gift. Haha


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

@Jconnelly6b and @GrassDaddy(when you get yours back) 
Do the instructions say how to implement their recommendations? Are you supposed to divide the recommended amount up over the season? If so how many applications are you to break it up into? or, do you apply the recommended amount every time you apply fertilizer? How many times per season? or, do you need to retest each time before you apply any additional fertilizer application?


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

If you use Milo regularly, you are adding a third of a pound or more of P2O5 (phosphorous) every time you apply one pound of nitrogen. That can add up.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

@Ridgerunner it makes no mention of application rate or timing. Simply says for synthetic "21-0-0 @ 2.75 lb/1000 sq. ft" and for organic "9-0-0 @ 6lb/1000 sq. ft"

I'm guessing they want you to retest after each application?? I don't know... the fact that I don't know how much is actually in the soil, only what's available to the plant bothers me. As I commented on GrassDaddy youtube video, couldn't what's available in the soil change if pH is adjusted, or if chelating agents are added? Does temperature have anything to do with what's available? I basically took the sample during the 5 or so days the soil hasn't been frozen since mid December. Also - not organic matter analysis really bugs me, didn't know I wanted to look for it until a few weeks ago and getting a good education here.

With all the above, I will not use a Soil Savvy test again unless I can be convinced otherwise.

RE: all the milo, yes I guess it could be that, turf not using it up at near the rate it is using N. I put down 30-0-5 for my winterizer, so didn't even add any P there. I will try to find something organic that only has N...any suggestions?


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

So I asked about the test and their explaination was that it's best to test more than once a year. The idea is that it measures what is readily available but as conditions change so would what's available. It's also assumed that as you apply the recommendations the needs would change.

As for application rate they say to break it up if it's a large amount. In other words if the amount of N would be more than a single app then break it up.

It is interesting, this is saying what fertilizer is needed now. When you adjust pH then it will change but it takes time for that to change, so in the meantime you are still deficient in those areas.

So ultimately I don't know what method is better but they make it incredibly easy. So I am recommending it but I do understand that at least in TLF where we tend to get super hardcore it might not be enough data for many.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Jconnelly6b said:


> I will try to find something organic that only has N...any suggestions?


You might want to check this out https://www.homedepot.com/p/Safer-Brand-25-lb-Ringer-Lawn-Restore-II-Fertilizer-9333/205458871
It is organic, with an analysis of 10-0-6. You might find that it is an improvement over Milo given your current needs.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

@Jconnelly6b onnelly6b and @GrassDaddy sDaddy
Thank you both for taking the time to reply.
I have concerns about Soil Savvy, The overall accuracy of their reported values. That pH can vary by about .5 of a unit, Whether or not their results are repeatable and regarding recommendations, I suspect the test has not been properly calibrated.
jconnelly's report, they recommend 2.75 lbs of 21-0-0.
That would be just under 0.6 lbs of N. That would be fine for a single application, but light, and very, very light if it was divided into multiple apps, So it must be for a single app, That leads me to believe that either a new test would be needed before making the next app. (expensive)or maybe the 2.75 is meant to be applied every time you fertilize for the season.
I began searching the internet to see if I could find other examples and an answer. I found the following youtube video which is why I asked my prior question about instructions.
Video:




 In that person's report, Soil Savvy recommends 7.25 lbs/M of 0-0-60 or 8.75 lbs/M of 0-0-50. That's a lot of K. Is that for one application? Is he to apply that amount more than once? I would hope not as It's at the top end of what would normally be recommended for a whole season. If you think I'm overly critical and "tend to get super hardcore". Ask @Mightyquinn what he thinks about that amount of K for a single application.


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

Well I do agree they could clarify that aspect of it as that was the first question I asked before taking the test. As it's for home owners they most likely won't know that 8lbs of 0-0-50 is too much at once.

As far as pH I was told it was always .5 lower than most tests because the way they test it, it comes out that way. Why they don't then ads .5 I don't know.

So what I'm planning on doing is applying the recommended fertilizer a few times (when I'd normally fertilize) and then doing a follow-up test to see if the results change dramatically.

The part I'm unsure about is typically we do one test per year and make a plan, but if we took a normal test twice a year would we also be changing plans mid way or does it take longer to change.

I will note I am *NOT* paid by SoilSavvy, I accept free products to try out but I don't get compensated. I am also not an expert in soil chemistry. I am trying to learn more so if anyone feels the need to call me out and correct innacuracies I appreciate it. I just know the results for the test were similar and easier than previous tests so in my case it appears to be a good test.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

> I will note I am *NOT* paid by SoilSavvy, I accept free products to try out but I don't get compensated. I am also not an expert in soil chemistry. I am trying to learn more so if anyone feels the need to call me out and correct innacuracies I appreciate it. I just know the results for the test were similar and easier than previous tests so in my case it appears to be a good test.


I hope that was just a general disclaimer and not due to anything I have said. My issue is with the quality and the consequent usefulness of Soil Savvy tests. In no way was it my intent to call you out, imply that you were financially profiting or otherwise impugn your character. If anything I have said has lead you to think otherwise, I am sorry.

As far as Soil Savvy goes, IMO, there are just too many red flags, It's not just the pH or the lack of guidance on application rates. The K recommendation is a prime example. It isn't remotely related to their test values. They recommend K fall within a range of 30-55 ppm. Applying 8.75 lbs/k of 0-0-50 would add over 75 ppm of K (if my math is correct). Over 20 ppm above the top end of their recommended range.
Although I'm not in a position to endorse it, If you like the idea of testing the way the plant "sees" the soil, I would suggest you look at the Haney soil test, It's been in development, testing, and calibration for a decade now and available through a number of established soil test labs (Midwest and Brookside for two) 
I like to question, investigate and be as informed as possible before investing, especially with new products or technologies, Please don't take my critique of SS personally. However, that's the last I'll have to say on the subject to avoid any future misunderstandings regarding my motives.


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

Ridgerunner said:


> I hope that was just a general disclaimer and not due to anything I have said. My issue is with the quality and the consequent usefulness of Soil Savvy tests. In no way was it my intent to call you out, imply that you were financially profiting or otherwise impugn your character. If anything I have said has lead you to think otherwise, I am sorry.


No I just put it there just for clarity. I don't want people thinking I'm pushing it because of financial reasons, I didn't think anything you said warranted it ;-)


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Ridgerunner said:


> In that person's report, Soil Savvy recommends 7.25 lbs/M of 0-0-60 or 8.75 lbs/M of 0-0-50. That's a lot of K. Is that for one application? Is he to apply that amount more than once? I would hope not as It's at the top end of what would normally be recommended for a whole season. If you think I'm overly critical and "tend to get super hardcore". Ask @Mightyquinn what he thinks about that amount of K for a single application.


In that recommendation, they are only recommending about 4.3 lbs/K of Potassium for the season I would assume, so if you do only 4 fertilizer applications during the season you could apply 1 lb/K per app and basically be good. I don't recommend applying more than 1lb/K of Potassium at a time. I would also stay away from MOP=0-0-60 as I believe it contains a lot of chlorine but if that's all you can get then so be it.

I would like to expand on what Ridgerunner commented on earlier in this thread about the Soil Savvy test. I too don't find it as a very good test as the sample you send in is very small and is quite expensive for what it is. I also don't like how they say that you need to "retest" so often, it's just another way to make more money of repeat costumers who don't know better. One more thing is I am a fan of getting a soil test done as it lets you know of any really bad deficiencies but digging down into the numbers to try and get everything perfect is a road to insanity because it will never happen. I think as long as you get your numbers in the "ballpark" you will be fine and you don't need some wizard to let you know what to add


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## 2xjtn (Nov 29, 2017)

An excessive buildup of P is due to over-fertilizing and/or nutrients out of balance, and also pH out of range. I'd be careful about hammering your lawn with ammonium sulfate (21-0-0 + 24%S)...This test doesn't give the Base Saturation % for Hydrogen, Ca, Mg, or K....(?). This information is crucial to know if you are to understand what's going on in the soil. target ppm #'s are only relative, and can vary widely from sample to sample. One glaring problem the test DOES indicate here is the extremely low pH. Anything less than 6.2, the availability of most nutrients is greatly diminished. But I'd hesitate making a recommendation on a liming material or how much of it, to bring the pH up without first knowing the BS% of Ca and Mg. Try sending some soil to AgSource/Harris Labs in Nebraska. You will get a much more detailed report. As far as a plan going forward.....aeration, aeration, aeration and maybe the addition of humic acid to get the activity in the soil going to use up some of that P.


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## MikeD (Aug 17, 2017)

I've used oil Savvy three times now each time my results get better and my lawn looks better. It's convenient and easy-to-use most homeowners like me are not going to take the time to fill out 3 pages of info and send dirt to some University and then not understand what you're reading when you get the results back.. I spoke with soil savvy they said their Test shows .5 lower pH level than other test due to the capsule in the test leaching. That's all but that .5 is added back to your results so that is your actual pH on the test paper. #2 they grow a root in your soil and then analyze that root to show what is available to your grass/plant right now. You can go get a test from a university it will show what's in your soil but that does not mean this is what your grass plant is up taking. So they both have bonuses and negatives. Soil Savvy is so easy use I also used it in my garden and I'm growing some of the best tomatoes vegetables ever.. I became a big fan.


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