# Help! Double dosed my Bermuda with Celsius & Trimec!



## nigel06 (Aug 18, 2019)

Hey everyone!

I received a recommendation from my local Site One to treat my poa annua and various broadleaf weeds breakout with a Celsius WG and Trimec for Southern Lawns mixture. (No fall preemergent this year... my bad.) I have Yukon Bermuda that I seeded last summer as part of my renovation. I also used methylated seed oil as a surfactant.

*Problem: Today I treated my 2,000 sf back yard with enough Celsius and Trimec for 4,000 sf.* 

_(How? I put enough product into my 4 gallon backpack sprayer to accommodate the 4 gallons of water, instead of putting the amount of product appropriate for my square feet. The result was 4 doses of product in the 4 gallons of water, instead of 2 doses of the product in the same 4 gallons of water. Also, FYI- It reach 78 degrees here in Austin today while I was applying.)_

*Questions*
1. Will this have a negative effect on my half-dormant bermuda grass?
2. If so, should I give it a good watering today? (I have irrigation.)
3. Should I do anything at all?

Thanks so much!
- Nigel

[+] Austin, Texas
[+] Yukon Bermuda
[+] 2,000 sf Frontyard and 2,000 sf Backyard


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

1. Yes.
2. Depends on how dormant it is. The more dormant the better, versus the grass being in the middle of spring green up. 
3. You're along for the ride at this point unless you want to use activated charcoal, and even then, eh, maybe no benefit.

@Greendoc Thoughts?


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

All you can do is wait and see what damage takes place


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

By now, the Bermuda has absorbed the Celsius. It may or may not react with stunted growth. Activated charcoal will be for when the grass is dead and you need to re plant turf. Celsius has two actions. It is absorbed by leaves and has a soil residual. Now it is a waiting game.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

I have stunted Bermuda grass when using Trimec with 2,4D. It can happen even with the correct amount of herbicide....

It just turns the grass blades reddish in color; then when you mow, it grows back green a little bit as you mow each time.

If you killed it, it turns brown; weed whack it to the dirt, rake the soil, and wait for the Spring and Summer, it grows back in.


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## nigel06 (Aug 18, 2019)

Thanks everyone for the quick responses: @FlowRider, @Greendoc, @CenlaLowell, @Movingshrub

It looks like the best I can do is sit and wait to see how my bermuda responds. On the brighter side, I'm giving the weeds a run for their money!

I plan on overseeding with more bermuda in a few weeks anyway, so I guess the condition of the turfgrass at that point will dictate how aggressive and formal I get.

_Hopefully in a few months I'll be able to post update pics better than the ones from last year. (attached)_

Thanks, all!
- Nigel


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Why are you putting more bermuda grass seed down?


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Yeah I'm with @Movingshrub why are you overseeding Bermuda? You're just throwing money away, mow lots and fertilize and your existing stand will grow vigorously....also mow as low as possible to encourage lateral growth. Overseeding is for cool season guys.


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## nigel06 (Aug 18, 2019)

@Movingshrub, @HungrySoutherner,

I'm thinking of overeseeding because last fall, my grass started to thin out in a lot of spots. Even though the temps were still in the 90s, it became thin. Now predictably, the thinnest spots are in the corner with the shade... as you can see in the first pic above. But some of the other thin spots are in full sun.

I do have underground irrigation, btw, and I avoided any lawn diseases last year. I used Milorganite and PGF Complete all summer and early fall, but missed my fall/winter applications.

_Are you thinking that maybe I didn't add enough N at that time of year? _

Thanks
-Nigel


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

If you have a shade problem, no amount of seed is going to fix that.

Bermuda needs two things; a f$%# ton amount of sun and then some nitrogen.

I think you're wasting money throwing down seed, plus you're going to need to limit your pre-emergent, otherwise it's going to prevent the very seed you're applying from germinating and rooting.

Bermuda is great at it's ability to repair. Skip the seed. Stick with a normal pre-emergent and management practice plan and you should be good to go .


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## BermudaBoy (Jun 27, 2019)

nigel06 said:


> @Movingshrub, @HungrySoutherner,
> 
> I'm thinking of overeseeding because last fall, my grass started to thin out in a lot of spots. Even though the temps were still in the 90s, it became thin. Now predictably, the thinnest spots are in the corner with the shade... as you can see in the first pic above. But some of the other thin spots are in full sun.
> 
> ...


My lawn had thinned out quite a bit, similar to what you are describing. I overseeded with Princess 77 and it germinated very quickly. But, all of the watering and fertilizing I did to get it to germinate and keep growing awakened my thinning Tifway and it took over and crowded out the Princess. The overseeding was a complete waste of time and money but what I did learn is that if you have Bermuda, push what you have with good lawn care practices and it will fill in nicely. Save the money you are going to spend on seed and put it towards something more useful.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

nigel06 said:


> @Movingshrub, @HungrySoutherner,
> 
> I'm thinking of overeseeding because last fall, my grass started to thin out in a lot of spots. Even though the temps were still in the 90s, it became thin. Now predictably, the thinnest spots are in the corner with the shade... as you can see in the first pic above. But some of the other thin spots are in full sun.
> 
> ...


I second what @Movingshrub said. No amount of seed is going to push that variety to be strong and grow in the shade. You could experiment with tifgrand or tiftuff in those areas and plug it in and see if it will survive. The only real solution is to reduce the shade or make a bed in that area. Otherwise no seed needed. Just mow low, often and and if you want to push hard hammer it with fert. I'd choose a better fertilizer in the spring though, something with more kick than milo or pgf. Look for something with AMS.


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## nigel06 (Aug 18, 2019)

@Movingshrub, @HungrySoutherner, @BermudaBoy,

Thanks again for chiming in. You're all right- I've got to fix the shade problem. I already had a crew come in and raise the canopy up to about 20' above ground level. But the tree is in the southeast corner of my yard, so it will always block portions of the lawn for many hours of the day. Now that I think about it, given the height and location of the tree, I bet the grass under there only gets 4 to 5 hours of sun starting in mid fall through mid spring.

So I'm really thinking about doing a mulch bed with just landscaping features... _or a man shed!_ 

Now, about the standard turf practices for Bermuda. I've got irrigation; I'm watering deeply and infrequently; I'm using N-Ext products to feed and condition the soil (RGS, Humic 12, MicroGreene 0-0-2); I core aerated last fall; I'll get my second set of Soil Savvy kits next week; and I'll transition from Milo/PGF to Carbon X 24-0-4; and I'm cutting at 2" (I want to go lower, but Ryobi lied to me on their mower specs and I can't go any lower, and wife won't greenlight a new mower. :lol: )

*My Question:* Which pre-emergent do you recommend? I'm getting poa annua, goosegrass (I think), Yellow Nutsedge in the summer, and a ton of broadleaf varieties (spurge, plantain, henbit, Shepherdspurse, and more).

*Allyn Hane recommends Prodiamine in a split application starting with soil temps at 55 degrees. (Which is now!) Sound good?*


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## nigel06 (Aug 18, 2019)

I just read the Quali-Pro Prodiamine 65 WDG label and it seems to cover my main problem areas.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

nigel06 said:


> I just read the Quali-Pro Prodiamine 65 WDG label and it seems to cover my main problem areas.


Are you planning to spray your pre emergent or use granular?


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## nigel06 (Aug 18, 2019)

> Are you planning to spray your pre emergent or use granular?


Well since I don't have a plan yet, I don't know. The first product I found is a Barricade generic "Quali-Pro Prodiamine 65 WDG," which is a liquid.

https://www.amazon.com/Prodiamine-Generic-Barricade-5lbs-ali8056/dp/B004GTQBEK/

Allyn Hane recommends the Sunniland product with an 0-0-7 fert included, which is a granular.
https://thelawncarenut.com/products/prodiamine

@TN Hawkeye, *I'm open to liquid or granular. Do you have a recommendation?*

Thanks,
Nigel


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Just do prodiamine. It's cheap. it works great. Apply it at a rate where you have to apply twice or three times total a year.


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

Spray all the way. It's so much cheaper in the long run. SO much cheaper.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

+1

If you're willing to do liquid apps, the Prodiamine 65 WDG will be much cheaper over the long haul.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

@nigel06 exactly what they all said. Spraying is the way to go.


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## nigel06 (Aug 18, 2019)

Ok cool. Prodiamine liquid it is, and it's already on its way from Amazon. Thanks everyone once again for the help:

@Ware, @TN Hawkeye, @Gilley11, @Movingshrub

And _see you in the lawn!_

-Nigel


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

nigel06 said:


> Ok cool. Prodiamine liquid it is, and it's already on its way from Amazon. Thanks everyone once again for the help:
> 
> @Ware, @TN Hawkeye, @Gilley11, @Movingshrub
> 
> ...


One word of caution about spraying Prodiamine = *staining*.

It will turn concrete yellow. I noticed you have a concrete patio, so be sure to read the precautions.

You can shield it with cardboard, but you do need to be careful when spraying.

I use corrugated plastic to cut in along the concrete edges first, and do a full perimeter first....

I have used granular dithiopyr in the past to avoid this issue; lots of concrete hardscape; takes time.

Unless you like yellow...then have at it! :lol:


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## nigel06 (Aug 18, 2019)

If anyone is following this thread, I'd like to give you an update.

Nothing bad happened at all. The Bermuda didn't yellow, and in general my lawn didn't show any signs of additional stress. Now keep in mind the grass was still mostly brown as it was coming out of dormancy, so things might have been different if we were in our growing season.

But, double dosing with my Celsius and Trimec mixture didn't seem to do any harm.


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