# Lowering PH



## Gibby

This has been discussed in a handful of threads and I find myself switching between them all to correlate all the information and to try to wrap my head around the information.

I find that some say there is no use on trying to lower PH > 7.5 and others say say it can be done. So this will be a place to discuss the options, pros, and cons.

I will update the first post with steps, notes, and other helpful information for lowering PH as the discussion continues. I plan on listing most helpful to least helpful ways of lowering PH.

Please comment on updates and thoughts on how to help this first post.

*Ways to lower PH:
*

Remove 6" of top soil and replace with soil that is at the PH you want. All other options are a multiyear endeavor.​
Use 50lbs/1k of elemental sulfur to lower PH by 1.0, sandy or loamy soil might only need 25% of that. Do not apply more than 5 lbs of Sulfur at a time unless you are tilling it in. Do not apply more than 20 lbs per year.
95% Sulfuric acid applied at 1 oz with 1 gallon of water per 1000 sq ft, use an all plastic calibrated hose end sprayer.
_Danger Will Robinson! Danger! Acid into water, NOT water into Acid... Google it_​
Apply 1-2 lb of Citric Acid as a spray monthly. Then water it in.
Iron sulfate can be used to lower pH but requires six times more product than elemental sulfur. It reacts faster at 3-4 weeks than elemental sulfur but as with all the products can cause plant damage if over used.

*References:*

https://ohioline.osu.edu/factsheet/agf-507
http://web.extension.illinois.edu/cfiv/homeowners/080818.html
https://www.canr.msu.edu/uploads/files/Lowering_Soil_pH_with_Sulfur.pdf
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=46339#p46322​


----------



## Gibby

I am going to try the elemental sulfur and citric acid route, to start lowering my PH from 8 to 6.5.

I am having trouble finding elemental sulfur locally, even 2 site one locations here don't carry it. One of them did carry magnesium epsom though. I am pretty sure I don't want to be adding salt. This looks like the cheapest online price I have found so far https://www.planetnatural.com/product/elemental-sulfur-50-lb/

As far as citric acid... No idea what to choose here, I am guessing maybe a powder and mix it with water then spray it?


----------



## raldridge2315

Gibby said:


> One of them did carry magnesium epsom though. I am pretty sure I don't want to be adding salt.


Epsom Salt is not salt at all. It is magnesium sulfate. Epsom Salt is a trade name derived from is original discovery and use in Epsom, Scottland.


----------



## Gibby

raldridge2315 said:


> Gibby said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of them did carry magnesium epsom though. I am pretty sure I don't want to be adding salt.
> 
> 
> 
> Epsom Salt is not salt at all. It is magnesium sulfate. Epsom Salt is a trade name derived from is original discovery and use in Epsom, Scottland.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I never thought about researching that part....


----------



## Greendoc

Gibby said:


> I am going to try the elemental sulfur and citric acid route, to start lowering my PH from 8 to 6.5.
> 
> I am having trouble finding elemental sulfur locally, even 2 site one locations here don't carry it. One of them did carry magnesium epsom though. I am pretty sure I don't want to be adding salt. This looks like the cheapest online price I have found so far https://www.planetnatural.com/product/elemental-sulfur-50-lb/
> 
> As far as citric acid... No idea what to choose here, I am guessing maybe a powder and mix it with water then spray it?


https://www.amazon.com/Milliard-Cit...3989957&sr=8-3&keywords=citric+acid+bulk&th=1

These prices are not bad. I pay only a few dollars less for a 50 lb bag from my local industrial chemical vendor. Then again, even for the Sulfur, https://www.amazon.com/Sulfur-Granu...8&qid=1523990142&sr=8-12&keywords=soil+sulfur I like this prilled sulfur. Regular soil Sulfur is so dusty. These are little granules that are the shape and size of split peas. Easy to spread. When water or rain hits them, they turn into powder.


----------



## Gibby

Greendoc said:


> Gibby said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am going to try the elemental sulfur and citric acid route, to start lowering my PH from 8 to 6.5.
> 
> I am having trouble finding elemental sulfur locally, even 2 site one locations here don't carry it. One of them did carry magnesium epsom though. I am pretty sure I don't want to be adding salt. This looks like the cheapest online price I have found so far https://www.planetnatural.com/product/elemental-sulfur-50-lb/
> 
> As far as citric acid... No idea what to choose here, I am guessing maybe a powder and mix it with water then spray it?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Milliard-Cit...3989957&sr=8-3&keywords=citric+acid+bulk&th=1
> 
> These prices are not bad. I pay only a few dollars less for a 50 lb bag from my local industrial chemical vendor. Then again, even for the Sulfur, https://www.amazon.com/Sulfur-Granu...8&qid=1523990142&sr=8-12&keywords=soil+sulfur I like this prilled sulfur. Regular soil Sulfur is so dusty. These are little granules that are the shape and size of split peas. Easy to spread. When water or rain hits them, they turn into powder.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

Am I correct that you mix the citric acid in water then spray it?


----------



## Greendoc

Yes. a pound will go into a gallon. Which then gets watered in immediately.


----------



## MckinneyLawn

I am going to try the sulfuric acid approach. From above the concentration should be 1 oz per gallon of water but what is the dose? Is it 1 gallon per 1000 sq ft?


----------



## Turfguy93

I hate to say it but you're better off learning to manage turf with a high ph soil than trying to lower it. You can have great turf with a high ph


----------



## Ridgerunner

@Gibby Gibby is due for an update. :nod:


----------



## Gibby

So.... Been busy with work/switching jobs.

I got 50lbs of elemental sulfur but haven't put any down yet. I did 1 app of citric acid and forgot to water part of the hell strip.... It died...


----------



## HoosierLawnGnome

Here is some turf with a pH of 8.0:



pH is a limited measurement of soil characteristics, it is not a good goal in and of itself. An ideal soil pH does not equate to ideal soil conditions. AND, without a clearer picture of everything else (goals, broader and more detailed soil analysis) - there is limited information with which to ascertain whether changing soil pH is helpful at all, let alone the best path to get there.


----------



## jonthepain

HoosierLawnGnome said:


> Here is some turf with a pH of 8.0:
> 
> 
> 
> pH is a limited measurement of soil characteristics, it is not a good goal in and of itself. An ideal soil pH does not equate to ideal soil conditions. AND, without a clearer picture of everything else (goals, broader and more detailed soil analysis) - there is limited information with which to ascertain whether changing soil pH is helpful at all, let alone the best path to get there.


Things that make me go "hmmmmmmmmmm"


----------



## Turfguy93

HoosierLawnGnome said:


> Here is some turf with a pH of 8.0:
> 
> 
> 
> pH is a limited measurement of soil characteristics, it is not a good goal in and of itself. An ideal soil pH does not equate to ideal soil conditions. AND, without a clearer picture of everything else (goals, broader and more detailed soil analysis) - there is limited information with which to ascertain whether changing soil pH is helpful at all, let alone the best path to get there.


Beautiful lawn HLG!


----------



## Gibby

HoosierLawnGnome said:


> pH is a limited measurement of soil characteristics, it is not a good goal in and of itself. An ideal soil pH does not equate to ideal soil conditions. AND, without a clearer picture of everything else (goals, broader and more detailed soil analysis) - there is limited information with which to ascertain whether changing soil pH is helpful at all, let alone the best path to get there.


I did have a Logan labs test done towards the end of last year.


----------



## HoosierLawnGnome

Yeah, not trying to bust anyone's balls  The question is WHY do you want to lower pH?

If it's to get a better looking lawn, there are a lot of ways to work with a high pH soil and have it look great. Some soils are so calcitic it's not even worth fighting (like mine).

Definitely the fastest way is to till up the soil and incorporate something like elemental sulfur and organic matter into the top foot or so. Not a big deal for the Indiana farmers up here who till that much anyways, but for a homeowner with an irrigation system that may be a nonstarter.

Other great ways to lower pH:
Apply lots of Organic Matter, especially things like peat moss / pine bark. LOOOOTS.
Use acidifying tools for soil amendments needed like Diammounium Phosphate, Urea, Ammonium Sulfate, Iron Sulfate. Really need to see the whole picture before seeing if any of those tools are helpful or not. Don't want to push P / Fe tooo much.
Apply elemental sulfur to the surface (if it is warm enough, long enough, and won't add cause imbalance based on other soil characteristics)

The above approaches take years!

But, if your goal is to have a lawn with ideal pH, I'd go find a soil you like, test it for ideal pH, then put a foot of it on my lawn. Boom. Perfect pH.


----------



## HomerGuy

@HoosierLawnGnome I recently learned that I have high ph soil, and I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on managing turf in high ph soil.


----------



## 95mmrenegade

My yard ph is 7.0
Low on phosphorus 
Low on potassium 
Low on calcium 
Low on magnesium

I have added P,K, cal and mag. Should I try to lower the PH or let it ride.


----------



## Greendoc

No need to actively lower, but I would consider making Ammonium Sulfate the Nitrogen source. Low in everything is actually the ideal situation.


----------



## Ridgerunner

95mmrenegade said:


> My yard ph is 7.0
> Low on phosphorus
> Low on potassium
> Low on calcium
> Low on magnesium
> 
> I have added P,K, cal and mag. Should I try to lower the PH or let it ride.


Low in everything? I guess it might depend some on the labs range scaling, but more likely your CEC is really low. If so, you'll want to consider spoon feeding.


----------



## 95mmrenegade

My CEC is low as well. When you say spoon feed, please elaborate.


----------



## 95mmrenegade

Greendoc said:


> No need to actively lower, but I would consider making Ammonium Sulfate the Nitrogen source. Low in everything is actually the ideal situation.


I will read up. What are the benefits.


----------



## Ridgerunner

> My CEC is low as well.


Is it a secret?  


> When you say spoon feed, please elaborate.


Is your soil sandy?
Spoon feeding is a method for keeping nutrients available in very low CEC and very sandy soils by making small applications of fertilizer more often. Often this will be half the monthly amount of fertilizer every 2 weeks but some will even break the usual monthly amount into quarter amounts and apply every week. Some people even spoon feed to avoid roller coaster nutrient swings in high CEC clay soils. Other alternatives is to use slow release fertilizer sources or foliar apps.


----------



## Mr McTurf

I am relatively new here so I don't know if this has been discussed before, but it is my understanding that besides the parent material of your soil, one of the predominant influences on your soil ph is the ph of your irrigation water. Any attempt to lower your ph may be difficult or short lived if you continue to irrigate with a high ph water source. If you don't irrigate, then disregard.

So, consider testing your water. It may be beyond what most home owners would consider, but I have worked with an acid injection system to use sulfuric acid to lower irrigation water ph. At a former job, not at my house, and will speak from personal experience that it can be dangerous.


----------



## Turfguy93

Mr McTurf said:


> I am relatively new here so I don't know if this has been discussed before, but it is my understanding that besides the parent material of your soil, one of the predominant influences on your soil ph is the ph of your irrigation water. Any attempt to lower your ph may be difficult or short lived if you continue to irrigate with a high ph water source. If you don't irrigate, then disregard.
> 
> So, consider testing your water. It may be beyond what most home owners would consider, but I have worked with an acid injection system to use sulfuric acid to lower irrigation water ph. At a former job, not at my house, and will speak from personal experience that it can be dangerous.


+1 the lake that we irrigate out of at the course has a ph of 8 and guess what the ph of the soil is on greens. You guessed it 8


----------



## Ridgerunner

@Mr McTurf 
Very salient point. :thumbup: 
Unfortunately, as you point out, most homeowners don't have the ability to correct this.


----------



## w0lfe

So besides the high PH causing iron to bind in the soil, what other reasons are there for lowering PH? Mine is high, and my grass is very lush. I just wonder if it would get even darker if iron wouldn't bind up in the soil


----------



## Ridgerunner

w0lfe said:


> So besides the high PH causing iron to bind in the soil, what other reasons are there for lowering PH? Mine is high, and my grass is very lush. I just wonder if it would get even darker if iron wouldn't bind up in the soil


Contrary to common perception, it's not as though anything above a pH of 7+ makes metal micros (or P) unavailable as if toggling a switch. It's a continuum, as pH rises, they can become more unavailable (tied up), but a number of sources state that they don't become critically deficient until pH rises above the low 8s. Turf root exudates are very efficient at extracting soil nutrients and the exudate has a chelating component that keep extracted nutrients available for plant uptake. Although not foolproof, roots also have a gatekeeper component to regulate which nutrients get absorbed based on plant process requirements. 
On the other hand, if you're trying to produce foie gras...


----------



## Kballen11

I just had my soil tested and the pH is 8.2. I am planning on doing monthly citric acid treatments. Should I consider ammonium sulfate or sulfur coated urea as my nitrogen source? I used milorganite all last summer and enjoyed the look of my grass, should I not apply milorganite any more? I am planning on adding some sulfur at some point. Any tips on what to apply and when to apply would be greatly appreciated. Sounds like lowering the ph might not even be a reality. If so, what are my options to maintain the best looking turf at such a high ph?


----------



## Greendoc

AS for sure. You liked how Millorganite looked because you managed to saturate the soil with so much Iron that the grass was forced to turn green. Lot of material to apply to get that result.


----------



## Kballen11

AS over sulfur coated urea @Greendoc ? I am planning on spraying FAS as well so I am not too worried about losing iron by not using milo.


----------



## Kballen11

@Greendoc I have done some more reading on here and sound like others mix citric acid when they spray their FAS. Is this something you recommend? I would like to do this if it is effective.


----------



## Greendoc

The N from Sulfur coat Urea is not that efficient at high pH. More green is gotten from AS. The way I would treat a lawn like yours is spray with 1 lb AS 1 lb Citric, 2 oz FEAture, 1 lb 20-20-20 soluble per 1000 sq ft. You are going to need a good sprayer to put this down.


----------



## Kballen11

@Greendoc I have a chapin backpack sprayer. Will it suffice? Is this a once a month treatment?


----------



## Greendoc

This is either once a month or else even better twice a month using half the rates. The sprayer should be able to handle it if the solution is mixed well enough that there are no un dissolved particles. Do you have irrigation?


----------



## Kballen11

Yes I have irrigation. I am assuming I want to water all this in immediately and maybe even spray in the evening when it is cooler as not to burn the turf. I am going to guess big box stores dont carry soluble AS or 20-20-20? Recommendations on where to find this? Would you still apply elemental sulfur twice a year? I am guessing this is all the fertilization I need. Never would have guessed I would be doing liquid fertilization but my spreader just broke so maybe it worked out in the end.


----------



## Greendoc

yes and yes to both. How I do my fertilizer applications is spray on and then water in. You might need to go to a Co-Op or else Ewing or Site One for the fertilizers. Is the sprayer electric?


----------



## Kballen11

No Ewing or Site One in my area . How would I find info on Co-Op? The sprayer is electric, yes.


----------



## Greendoc

Where do the farmers go for fertilizer? Or if you are totally in the city, Amazon.


----------



## Kballen11

I will do some research. What are your thoughts on elemental sulfur twice a year with this program? Too much?


----------



## Greendoc

You will need the elemental Sulfur as well to stabilize pH long term. Citric and Ammonium Sulfate are fast acting but do not last. Sulfur can be extremely slow.


----------



## Kballen11

Ok great! Thanks for all your help! If you think of anything else, please let me know!


----------



## BXMurphy

Elemental sulfur and citric acid on same day... watered in with 1/4 inch water. Asking for trouble?


----------



## ken-n-nancy

BXMurphy said:


> Elemental sulfur and citric acid on same day... watered in with 1/4 inch water. Asking for trouble?


Umm, with you being Massachusetts, why are you applying sulfur? I would seriously question any soil test that came back with a high pH in a Massachusetts soil, unless somebody has been applying lime every year for a decade without a soil test because "it is the thing to do."


----------



## BXMurphy

Seriously... UMass test...surprised me, too... I would have thought 5-5.5-ish... Nope! Spot on neutral.

House built in 1930. I suppose, like you said, "it was the thing to do." I did it, too... off and on since moving in in 2002... and then I got "woke" by you and everyone else here at TLF.

I bet I can knock it down to 5.0 in just this season. 

Why do it? Meh... I suppose just because I can... 

Murph


----------



## krusej23

Make sure you are looking at what grass type you have to make sure that grass type will be okay with the pH you wish to have. It's not easy to knock the pH down that much in one season.


----------



## BXMurphy

krusej23 said:


> Make sure you are looking at what grass type you have to make sure that grass type will be okay with the pH you wish to have. It's not easy to knock the pH down that much in one season.


@krusj22, New England gets acid rain from Appalachians. We have granite EVERYWHERE which leaches more acid. Acid is NEVER a problem!! 

That's why people who don't know what you and I know just mindlessly apply lime each spring.

Been there, done that.... before meeting you and everyone here at TLF. Thank you, friend!! My lawn is the BERRIES because of you!

I have a FANTASTIC NoMix/triv/annua lawn. I will reno in the fall. Before then, I am going to try EVERYTHING to see how this Franken-lawn behaves. 

This might be the only chance I get before I REALLY care about the grass. 

Yours,
Murph


----------



## Bradymco11

I tried lowering pH using Disper-Sul for 2 years and was unsuccessful. I gave up trying to lower it and just found that using ammonium sulfate as my nitrogen source and going with some form of liquid spray for iron gets way better results than trying to lower pH. Lowering pH is a losing battle in AZ.


----------



## BXMurphy

Bradymco11 said:


> I tried lowering pH using Disper-Sul for 2 years and was unsuccessful. I gave up trying to lower it and just found that using ammonium sulfate as my nitrogen source and going with some form of liquid spray for iron gets way better results than trying to lower pH. Lowering pH is a losing battle in AZ.


Yeah... that's why peeps have to know what native soil is in their area and pick their fights from there.


----------



## Thick n Dense

So my soil is a smidge below 7.0, im thinking of lowering to allow iron to be absorbed better.

Ya,ll think a single elementel sulfur at will get it there?

Or I cankeep hitting with FAS.

Been using southern Ag chelated iron and just eyeballing the the amounts but want to push the color.
How much of this should I use per thousand?


----------



## BXMurphy

Thick n Dense said:


> So my soil is a smidge below 7.0, im thinking of lowering to allow iron to be absorbed better.
> 
> Ya,ll think a single elementel sulfur at will get it there?
> 
> Or I cankeep hitting with FAS.
> 
> Been using southern Ag chelated iron and just eyeballing the the amounts but want to push the color.
> How much of this should I use per thousand?


Two thoughts (three if I add that I'm not an expert at the chemistry part)...


Check the pH coming out of your source.

Check what your native soil is.

My municipal water is 7.0. I went online and checked the water department water quality report. I will always have this as a headwind trying to lower soil pH.

New England soil is naturally acidic. This soil wants to be low pH all by itself. Around here, folks typically lime in the spring.

For my plan, I am going to hit the soil with elemental sulfur when the warm and dry weather hits because elemental sulfur is released by microbial action. When it gets wet, it turns into hydrogen (I think). It turns into something, anyway... I will have to double-check but I want sulfur and not something else.

Next, I will mix in a little citric acid to my soil conditioner to bring down what I spray over top. Not too much because I don't want to burn the grass and I'm too lazy to water it off the blades. Just enough to counteract what the muni supply is.

I'm not sure what the ammonium sulfate in FAS will do for pH but iron is always good for color. I would apply that unadulterated.

I'm not going to need much of a push to lower my pH. Check your own parameters and go from there.

Murph


----------



## Thick n Dense

Lol, I've been way underapplying chelated Iron, label said 1 pint for k. 8 pints is a gallon aka the whole bottle !

I think Im going to go for it will E sulfur in the fall. Also, citric acid here and rhere when applicable.


----------



## doverosx

Crazy expensive isn't it? I tried the southern ag, when it came in the mail I wasn't expecting such a small bottle.


----------



## steffen707

@Greendoc I know this is an older thread, but most of the discussion on here hit close to home.
Around here (Central Wisconsin) folks say that pine needles are acidic and just apply lime every few years because......
My former lawn care guy applied it at least 1-2 times in the last 5 years before I decided to get educated on my lawn and DIY it.

My sandy soil is high in Calcium.
My PH from my soil is between 7.0-7.2 depending on the part of yard I took the samples from.

I have a mix of TF, KBG and PRG.

I never thought of testing my irigation water. I'm going to do that tonight.

Last night I put down my first 2.5lbs/1000sf Elemental Sulfur on the lawn, I was going to do 6 applications of this this year instead of 3 applications of 5lbs/1000sf.

I know 7.2 isn't HIGH, but I just figured 6.7 ph would be better so might as well start to try and lower it.

If it turns out my irrigation water is right at 7-7.2ph, should I even bother throwing down Elemental Sulfur? I saw earlier in the thread a very beautiful lawn with a ph of 8, so maybe i'm just wasting time/money.

If the irrigation water is Higher, i was thinking the ES would be good to continue to counteract the higher ph water.

Thoughts?


----------



## ken-n-nancy

steffen707 said:


> Around here (Central Wisconsin) folks say that pine needles are acidic and just apply lime every few years because......
> 
> My former lawn care guy applied it at least 1-2 times in the last 5 years before I decided to get educated on my lawn and DIY it.
> 
> My sandy soil is high in Calcium.
> My PH from my soil is between 7.0-7.2 depending on the part of yard I took the samples from.
> ...
> 
> Thoughts?


Personally, I would stop with the "apply lime every few years because..." and live with the pH of 7.0 - 7.2 that you have.

Switching to a nitrogen fertilizer which gradually helps lower pH, such as Ammonium Sulfate (AS) which has an N-P-K of 21-0-0, will help. The pH of 7.0 to 7.2 isn't high enough to warrant elemental sulfur to try to lower pH.


----------



## Robs92k

I'm in the fox valley area…I get AS from reinders…it's a 21-0-0-24, 24 being sulfur. I have to order it as it seems locally only golf courses use it. I just started weekly apps @ .2#/k (advice from gman). My lawn isn't healthy, so that may be aggressive or you'd want to use a PGR….or you have a lot of time to mow.

My ph is 7.9 - 8.1. Once my lawn gets back into shape, I'll be adding citric acid to my PGR and FAS application (I use the same granular AS for both).

This year I did throw down a couple pounds of sulfur. We'll see how the test results look next spring. Not expecting much overall change if any…hoping the faster/ temp sources get the job done. Good luck.


----------

