# Help!! Noob Here



## DParz (Mar 30, 2021)

I purchased my first home in the winter last year and now that spring is here, my lawn is a mess. I don't know where to begin. I have weeds everywhere! I'm not looking to have the most beautiful lawn in the neighborhood, I just want to have mostly grass. I know I need to rake the leaves from last fall, and I'm sure they aren't helping. Any help is much appreciated!

*Front Yard:*








*Back Yard*


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

I highly recommend you get a free quote from one or two pest control companies; ask for the lawn division. They will come out and help identify your desirable grass species (if any) and give you a sense of what you're about to get into. The good news is you can make considerable inroads this season, but I suspect you'll want to consult with a professional in person to get off to a strong start.


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## AvgHomeOwner (Jun 23, 2020)

I don't see any grass. Anyone?


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

What's your budget and time scale?


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## DParz (Mar 30, 2021)

AvgHomeOwner said:


> I don't see any grass. Anyone?


I don't see any grass either, so I wasn't sure whether to use a selective or non-selective herbicide.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

AvgHomeOwner said:


> I don't see any grass. Anyone?


Me either but there has to be grass huh? Hopefully there's bermuda somewhere we just can't see.


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## DParz (Mar 30, 2021)

CenlaLowell said:


> AvgHomeOwner said:
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I'll rake it up and post more pics


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

DParz said:


> AvgHomeOwner said:
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I wouldn't use a non selective just in case your wrong. Also unless you planning on sodding or seeding why would you use a non selective. Get rid of the weeds using Celsius and MSM then you will know more.

Welcome to TLF


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## DParz (Mar 30, 2021)

SCGrassMan said:


> What's your budget and time scale?


I'm inexperienced but I'm willing to do the work and learn. I'm not sure about budget... I'd like to spend less than having a landscaping company do it.


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## DParz (Mar 30, 2021)

CenlaLowell said:


> DParz said:
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Thanks for the welcome. I found a 2 oz bottle of MSM and a 10 oz bottle of Celsius. The 10 oz. of Celsius seems like way too much juice with how concentrated it is and my lawn size. Are there more diluted alternates than can be used? Thanks


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Depending on your lawn size, that bottle of celsius will last a while. possibly years, since it's solid, and it will keep. It seems expensive, but it might be cheap compared to getting a $30-$40 bag at a local big box three times a year for the next few years. I would also add certainty to the mix to help deal with the tramp grass weeds.

There are two cheaper alternatives to celsius. Those are fahrenheit and blindside. both contain MSM blended with other herbicides. use a diet scale to measure them out if you go with them. If you'd rather do a big box cocktail, go with speedzone southern.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

One thing you can do is go take a look at your neighbors yards and see if you see mostly fescue or bermuda. That may help you figure out what's going on. Either way you are going to need to be aggressive this season if there is bermuda and will need to do a burn and return. Before you spray anything you need to be certain if there is any existing grass in the turf especially bermuda. I'd say for your backyard you are stuck with Tall Fescue, shade is going to prevent bermuda from being an option. If you can't find bermuda in the yard then you're wasting money on herbicides other than Glyphosate. We are really exiting the period where germinating TTTF in the Atlanta is possible unless you really are diligent with the water, with the shade in the back you might have a good chance at getting some fescue up for the summer and then can reseed in the fall. Have fun, make some mistakes so you will learn what not to do and since you aren't familiar with all the herbicides everyone is suggesting its better to ask, ask again and then ask one more time before you using anything because you don't want to spray things like MSM or Celisus at crazy high rights with nuking everything else in the lawn. Keep us posted would like to see what happens.


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## tincan (Sep 4, 2020)

I see you stated your location as Atlanta. There is a good chance that you have bermuda grass. If so, it might be possible for you to kill off the weeds and then aggressively push bermuda to grow in the summer. But if it is fescue, I would suggest to start over with new seeds or sod.

An inexpensive selective herbicide option is Spectracide (with crabgrass killer)

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Spectracide-Weed-Stop-for-Lawns-Crabgrass-Killer-Concentrate-32-oz-QuickFlip-Hose-End-Sprayer/35789535

It has 2,4D, Quinclorac, Dicamba and Sulfrentrazone.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

@DParz some of these chemicals have the ability to kill shrubs and trees. You have some nice things in your yard that I would be keen to protect. A professional applicator will help you identify any grass that you may have and propose a plan that will likely avoid making your situation worse.

Noobs should not be looking to make broadcast applications until they have had success with spot spraying. Most noobs don't understand how much area they have, or how to measure powerful chemicals in such tiny quantities, or how to anticipate herbicide drift.

You are bound to learn at least one thing by getting a free consultation/quote from a reputable pest control company. You can ask them what grass they see, what chemicals they plan to use and where.

You're just getting started. Take all the help you can get. Avoid noob mistakes.


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## mjh648 (Sep 1, 2020)

CenlaLowell said:


> DParz said:
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Given his inexperience and the dangers of MSM I'm thinking we should steer him away from that. Lawncare is a daunting task that requires a lot of research to understand what chemicals you should use and when/how/where to apply. MSM seems way less forgiving than a celsius, certainty, dismiss type, especially around trees.


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## mjh648 (Sep 1, 2020)

While other chemicals might be cheaper than Celsius be careful about which ones you get. I would not recommend anything with MSM to someone who is inexperienced. You really need to understand which chemicals are suited for what grasses/weeds and when/where/how to apply them effectively.

If you don't heed my advice I got a bottle of blindside in my garage collecting dust because I refuse to use it.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

DParz said:


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The celsius - 0.225 ounces of it is enough to do 4,000 square feet. So yes, its a big bottle, but you can do your entire lawn 40 times with some to spare. MSM is like 0.02 ounces per 1000 same kinda deal. This is why I was asking about budget. The outlay for chemicals is significant sometimes, but you've got what amounts to an ALMOST lifetime supply for a lot of them. Especially once you get your pre emergent and all that dialed in so that you have very few weeds next year.

I love doing this stuff myself, but you might do ok calling TruGreen or one of those, and just have them come out and spray it one or two times. If I remember correctly, they usually use Celsius and some other stuff.

If it was *ME*, I would nuke it and put in irrigation and sod. But I like doing this stuff. But just keep in mind the products we are telling you to put down are going to kill all the weeds, and you may discover little or no grass left. Then you've got a mud pit, and you're forced to live with it or put down sod which you may not have in your budget.

So yeah, start with a budget for sure


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

DParz said:


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Measure your lawn AVERAGE in your profile is not going to work for advice. If your lawn is on the smaller side you should go to the marketplace and do a split of Celsius. Msm already cheap enough so you could buy the bottle. If your not comfortable with the small amount used in MSM fahrenheit will work and it's easier to measure.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

DParz said:


> SCGrassMan said:
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This is a good question because messing with us (TLF) this will get expensive real quick.


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## Automate (Aug 14, 2020)

First need to determine if you have any turf worth saving. If you don't, Glyphosate is going to be the cheapest way to kill all the weeds.

Second, determine if your back yard gets enough sun for a warm season lawn. If not, you need to jump into the cool season forum and maybe look at a cheaper selective weed killer such as Tenacity


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

CenlaLowell said:


> This is a good question because messing with us (TLF) this will get expensive real quick.


@DParz, you may be wondering what the fixation on budget is. There are limits to what you can achieve with effort alone. And you may have goals that are measured in months, and not years. I would guess most of the regulars here have spent many $1,000's of dollars on equipment and materials (including water!) and put in hundreds of hours learning/practicing to sustain/improve their lawns and landscape. The equipment and material takes up space. It can quickly turn into an expense that you never planned for. An example would be you start off with a manual pump sprayer and, after torturing yourself enough, you realize it's actually worth the money to buy a battery powered sprayer. Or you choose a grass to cultivate that doesn't do well in shade, and next thing you know you're looking at tree trimming or removal. You need to be prepared to remove leaves and pine needles as well.

That's why you shouldn't be in a hurry to start spraying herbicide right away.  Identify what, if anything, you have first; you need to be able to see the desired grass with your own eyes and differentiate it from everything else.

Even if you do cover it all in glyphosate, nutsedge will grow back from the underground tubers. Right now, all those weeds are competing for resources. Once you wipe them out, whatever remains living will probably thrive and you will have landed on the slippery slope of big spending.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

For starters I would just pick up all the sticks and debris, then set the mower on the lowest setting and bag all the clippings and leaves. Then you should be able to see what is going on underneath. Take a close-up and post it here if you need help identifying grass types. As far as products, I echo the recommendation to wait to see what you have first. I very much do not recommend anything with MSM in it.


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## Botanicalstig (May 26, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> For starters I would just pick up all the sticks and debris, then set the mower on the lowest setting and bag all the clippings and leaves. Then you should be able to see what is going on underneath. Take a close-up and post it here if you need help identifying grass types. As far as products, I echo the recommendation to wait to see what you have first. I very much do not recommend anything with MSM in it.


This is good advice. I had a similar looking mess when I moved into my home. The yard needs a serious clean up before you think about anything else.

That back yard looks like a nice place for cool season grass. I planted Titan TTTF in my shaded yard in the fall and I'm loving it. Easy and inexpensive to DIY. We put a lot of labor into the dirt but it was done and seeded in a weekend. Might be a variety to consider if the time comes.


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## 36racin (Sep 8, 2020)

DParz said:


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Just learning myself....Had Sod Webworms eat my lawn last year. First time even attempting to get my lawn looking better. Sprayed Bifen, Celsius and Prodomine. And thought I had mostly St. Augustine lawn.....Now I'm not so sure. I think I mostly had weeds and trash grasses. The Celsius doesnt take much....Measured in grams. I hit mine with the min rate....Killed most weeds except the stickers. So I will be spraying again at a higher rate. I'm in no hurry to make lawn better. I may even add some St. Augustine sprigs throughout the yard in the bad areas. This is what I sprayed....Good luck

Bifen IT .25 oz per gallon water. 2 different application about two weeks apart
Celsius WG 2.4 grams per 1000sq ft 1 application
Prodiamine 65 WDG .50 oz per 1000sq ft 1 application

Todd


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## DParz (Mar 30, 2021)

Thank you all for the advise. I started tacking the lawn this weekend by cutting and raking the lawn. Fortunately there is grass underneath all the weeds. Because the lawn wasn't raked in the fall, there are a lot of leaves stuck in the ground - it takes several passes in all four directions to loosen them up and release them from the grass/weeds. Is this step required, or am I being too much of a perfectionist? Next weekend I plan on putting down the herbicide - I'm still reading through your recommendations, trying to figure out the best path.

In reviewing the pics below, does it change your opinion on best path to take?

All the leaves are coming up from that small rakes portion on the right hand side




Pictures of grass




Pictures of the raked portion again. I'm shocked at how many leaves are embedded in the lawn.




Close-up of raked portion


Close-up of unrated portion


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## Darrell_KC (Mar 20, 2019)

Can you get even closer to the grass? I swear pic 3 looks a bit like some bermuda stalks, but it looks like there is some other grass like poa mixed in as well.

Absolutely keep raking. You've got to get all that leaf debris up and out of there. The leafs will block sunlight from getting to the soil and grass blades and you need the sunlight to warm the ground and stimulate turf growth.

Do you know about the size of your lot? You need to get that square footage, so that way you know how much fertilizer to apply. I would recommend a fertilizer run soon. The fertilizer will feed both the grass and the weeds, however as the grass begins growing again you can really see what you are working with.

2 quick notes. I do second the idea of the Spectracide with Crab Grass Preventer. This is very good stuff for knocking out existing weeds, and it also will stop new weeds from being able to grow. However, you must get the leaves up before this, and I would also back up what someone else said here which is due to the amount of weeds that will die off, you will end up with quite a bit of dirt. I would wait and see what kind of grass you have that is the dominant species, because if its a cool season grass you may end up tolerating weeds until fall, and since Spectracide is a pre-emergent, it will stop any seeding attempts if you decide to go that route.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I don't see anything that looks familiar. I'm thinking it a cool-season grass... probably fescue. Hopefully some of the transition zone members can help out.


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## AvgHomeOwner (Jun 23, 2020)

Hope it's bermuda. If its not, why would somebody put a cool season grass in ATL!


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## Automate (Aug 14, 2020)

Only if there is too much shade for a warm season grass


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