# CaffeinatedLawnCare Lawn Renovation (Midnight, Mazama, Bewitched)



## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Hi everyone, looking at doing a renovation on my lawn. Just recently had a large tree removed from the front yard which killed about 30% of my ~2000SQFT lawn and left the other 70% bumpy and gouged from tree limbs falling.

Plan to kill it off in the coming weeks with 3-4 apps of glyphosate, level it out/fill in the hole left from the tree, and plant a blend of 40% Midnight, 30% Mazama, 30% Bewitched, which I recently purchased a 10lb bag of from Seed Super Store.

Once the yard is leveled I plan to go over it with an aerator then make a couple passes with my scarifier before laying down the seed, applying a blanket app of mesotrione and covering with peat moss. I also plan to rent a lawn roller when I seed to press it in a bit/help flatten everything out after the initial leveling. I'll also be following up with blanket apps of mesotrione after 4 weeks, then weekly, for a total of 4 apps since I'll be seeding in the Spring.

My only concern at the moment is, being in Wisconsin, it usually starts getting too hot around July which doesn't leave me much time (plan for seed down around May 1st-15th). Might have about 1.5 months of decent growing time before summer.

I have irrigation so I'm planning on just watering the new seedlings throughout the summer to keep them alive until fall when I'll do part 2 and scarify/re-seed.

Do you guys think it will be worth it/I'll be able to keep the kbg alive through the summer with such short growing time in spring? Or should I just throw some seed down in the spot where the hole is (to keep it from being a mud pit all summer) and wait for the full renovation until fall?

Let me know your opinions and I'll post some pictures of the renovation as I progress.


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## cleohioturf

Honestly if you are going to put that much effort in, you are clearly looking for high level results. Don't do it now, wait until late July early aug to start and be ready. KBG can take so long and then you risk it being mature enough for heat. I did 90% kbg and 10% rye, the rye helped cover the area quickly and retain moisture but I started mowing when that hit 3/4" to make sure the canopy was still open for the kbg.

I would recommend two glypho apps, I rushed my last reno due to weather and only got one app, now I'm frustrated with some poa. I wish I would have done glypho, wait three weeks, glypho again, wait two weeks, then clear the area.


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## jskierko

In my opinion, definitely too late if you still need to do a complete kill off of current yard. If you were starting with a blank slate today and you could seed right away I'd say it would be doable with proper diligence. But if you seed in the beginning of May, you aren't getting out of sprout and pout until June and with Midwest weather it could be 80+ degrees for several straight days by that point. Seems like you want to do it right. Seed the hole, reno in the fall.


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## Slingblade_847

I agree with those posts above. 100% wait if full reno. You can plan the timing of everything, but almost never will it go according to plan. Your glypho May take longer to kill, weather may prohibit timing of seed down, etc etc. There are a lot of variables that we have no control over. If you haven't yet, look in the lawn journal threads for renos and it will provide a lot of insight, and most likely examples of how things never go as planned.


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## M32075

I agree with the above. Seed the hole with perineal rye seed you can have a lawn in two weeks then go with your renovation at the right time. You can rye seed cheap at hancock seed ships free and 10% off.


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## john5246

I have done 2 spring renovations now with KBG and you will be just fine. Here is how to proceed:

1. Make sure to do the first round of glyphosate early enough. In the spring it takes a long time for the grass to turn yellow to indicate that it's dead (even with round-up brand glyphosate). I was not able to seed till June 1st because of this. Get your glyphosate down on a nice sunny day in the first or 2nd week of May. Some of it always survives so you will need a 2nd round and then also to spot treat some patches before dropping seed.

Drop you seed in the final week of May or middle of may if you think it's going to be warm. Remember that temps affect germination rate so you can adjust your seed rate slightly higher to compensate. Be sure to save enough seed to fill in any bare spots. 1-2lbs of extra seed on hand should do it.

In July you need to watch the grass carefully and water. Seeding in spring requires more water as you have to make the seedlings last through July/August.

*The benefit with seeding in the spring is you can do the "fall nitrogen blitz" (see the guide in this forum), so your grass will begin to fill in quite well before going dormant.*

No renovation is easy to be honest. There's always challenges no matter when you seed. Go ahead and do it now since that's what you were learning toward anyway.


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## SNOWBOB11

I would definitely wait until late summer to do this. As others have said your clearly looking for high quality results. To put that effort in and then seed at a non ideal time could be a waste. In reality you only need to wait a extra 2 1/2 - 3 months from your planned seed down day. Renovations can have many challenges. Especially a all bluegrass reno. The best way to be successful is to take out the unnecessary variables if you can.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks for the responses.

My thought was that since I have 10lbs of seed (@2lbs/1000 would be 4lbs for my 2k sqft) I would have at least two attempts. I figured that any germination/surviving grass would only be a plus for the fall attempt (essentially turning the fall seeding into an overseed project, with the added benefit of already having killed off all the undesirable grasses/weeds in the spring so I can time the second attempt a lot easier/sooner in the fall).

If I wait to start the reno until fall, when should I be doing my glyphosate applications? The lawn would be mostly dormant in July, so wouldn't I have to wait until August to start the glyphosate? That would put me around the end of August for seed down?


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thought I'd add some pictures so you can see what I'm working with.

Last fall (October 2020)









Current after tree removal (March 2021)


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## M32075

It's not a big lot you might be able to pull it off but still voting for a quick total rye over seed now you can have a lawn in two weeks to at least get you to smile and have no soil erosion then go for the full KBG this fall


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## SNOWBOB11

Don't let the lawn go dormant this summer. Keep it irrigated so your spraying glyphosate on a lawn that is currently growing. The lawn looks thick. You don't have to overseed this lawn this spring. If you wanted to only seed the area where the tree was that would be fine.

Start your glyphosate apps in late June or early July so you can get in 3 apps of gly before seeding. In your area you can seed end of July or first week of August.


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## Jay20nj

Although i have never done a spring reno i believe there are desinct advantages and disadvantages. 
Advantages would be the ability to kill off all poa a which is plaguing my fall reno currently. My fall reno experienced multiple washouts which carried both the seed and the tencity resulting in bare spots and a ton of poa a. Less washouts in the spring
Disadvantages would be you need to irigate like crazy to keep your young grass alive and you will have crabgrass. Imo crabgrass is easier to deal with than poa a. The main part will be keeping it alive through the heat and then being proactive with pre m in the fall.

Many have failed with a spring reno but it is possible.


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## KoopHawk

john5246 said:


> I have done 2 spring renovations now with KBG and you will be just fine. Here is how to proceed:
> 
> 1. Make sure to do the first round of glyphosate early enough. In the spring it takes a long time for the grass to turn yellow to indicate that it's dead (even with round-up brand glyphosate). I was not able to seed till June 1st because of this. Get your glyphosate down on a nice sunny day in the first or 2nd week of May. Some of it always survives so you will need a 2nd round and then also to spot treat some patches before dropping seed.
> 
> Drop you seed in the final week of May or middle of may if you think it's going to be warm. Remember that temps affect germination rate so you can adjust your seed rate slightly higher to compensate. Be sure to save enough seed to fill in any bare spots. 1-2lbs of extra seed on hand should do it.
> 
> In July you need to watch the grass carefully and water. Seeding in spring requires more water as you have to make the seedlings last through July/August.
> 
> *The benefit with seeding in the spring is you can do the "fall nitrogen blitz" (see the guide in this forum), so your grass will begin to fill in quite well before going dormant.*
> 
> No renovation is easy to be honest. There's always challenges no matter when you seed. Go ahead and do it now since that's what you were learning toward anyway.


This.

If you have irrigation, I wouldn't let a spring seed/reno scare you off especially such a small area. I seeded 17k sq ft May 31 last year and it turned out great. Just need to monitor your water and I put down fungicides just to be safe. I detailed everything in my journal last year.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks for the reply, I have irrigation

I'm still debating between the two. I have the stump grinder coming back tomorrow to grind down some high spots (want to make sure the roots have room to grow). If I start spraying glyphosate this week, I could potentially seed on April 25th. Timeline would look something like:

April 7th - gly
April 14th - gly
April 17th - scalp/scarify/aerate (is 10 days from the first app and 3 days after the second app enough time to get a full kill?)
April 18th - fill low spots/level lawn
April 21st - last gly app on anything that remains
April 25th - (potentially power rake/scarify one more time?) Seed down/tenacity app for pre-em

On the other hand, delaying would give me extra time to really level out the lawn and as SNOWBOB11 said I can keep the grass actively growing through summer and start the kill process earlier (early July) in order to time the seeding for the end of July/Aug 1st. I feel like this will result in less rushing to get things done in terms of prep work.

Let me know what you think about the above timeline (and questions).

Thanks.


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## KoopHawk

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Thanks for the reply, I have irrigation
> 
> I'm still debating between the two. I have the stump grinder coming back tomorrow to grind down some high spots (want to make sure the roots have room to grow). If I start spraying glyphosate this week, I could potentially seed on April 25th. Timeline would look something like:
> 
> April 7th - gly
> April 14th - gly
> April 17th - scalp/scarify/aerate (is 10 days from the first app and 3 days after the second app enough time to get a full kill?)
> April 18th - fill low spots/level lawn
> April 21st - last gly app on anything that remains
> April 25th - (potentially power rake/scarify one more time?) Seed down/tenacity app for pre-em
> 
> On the other hand, delaying would give me extra time to really level out the lawn and as SNOWBOB11 said I can keep the grass actively growing through summer and start the kill process earlier (early July) in order to time the seeding for the end of July/Aug 1st. I feel like this will result in less rushing to get things done in terms of prep work.
> 
> Let me know what you think about the above timeline (and questions).
> 
> Thanks.


It really depends how level you want things to be. If you want a putting green, having all summer to do it might be beneficial. If you want it pretty level, you should have plenty of time this spring.

Skip the scalp/scarify/aerate on April 17th and do that on seed down day or the day before. Why do it twice? 

Water the day after you gly so the grass processes it as much as possible.

What's your weather look like for the next couple weeks? NW IA is pretty close weather wise to the southern 1/3 of Wisconsin and it is going to significantly cool back down. This might be a question for someone else but how much does grass process gly at lower temps?


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

I bought a Sun Joe scarifier for christmas, maybe just looking for additional reasons/opportunities to test it out haha, figured an extra pass or two with the scarifier before aerating and leveling couldn't hurt. Not sure if I'll have time to do everything in one weekend so I was thinking I would break it up into two weekends (17/18th and the 24/25th).

The weather is looking pretty decent, the 14 day forecast shows highs between 55-60 and lows of around 40-45. Additionally the averages for the month are pretty similar around 55-60 and lows down to 40.

I have been seeing a lot of grass greening up lately.


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## Slingblade_847

Just remember that if you aerate, you might be exposing more weeds that will show up when you start watering seed. And depending on where you get your dirt from, you might be bringing in more weeds that would require the fallowing process. I brought in top soil for my reno and some unknown weed went crazy. Luckily i was able to glypho that before seed down. Like others have said...spring probably is possible. I just think you should assess what people have said and make your own determination. I think it's all a gamble. But your odds are more in favor come fall in my opinion.

...this is a good thread


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks Slingblade, I'm not as worried about weeds as I am about killing all the current Fescue grass and getting the new KBG grass to survive summer, but as evidenced by KoopHawk it can be done with enough water.

Weeds can always be killed later with some herbicide and a pre-emergent for next spring. As long as I end up with (mostly) KBG in the yard it will fill in the dead spots.

When I did my spring Fescue renovation (I liked the wide leaf blades and drought resistance at the time, but now want the darker color and spreading abilities of KBG) I had an extra 3-4 weeks of growing time that I won't have for the KBG (due to the long germination period). That is why I was more worried about the length of time, but seeing KoopHawks renovation has put my fears there at ease. He was able to seed around May 31st in temperatures much higher than I would have and I would be seeding here about a month earlier than that.

Both his KBG renovation and my previous spring Fescue renovation turned out fine as seen in the (first) picture I posted earlier, which was taken near the end of fall.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Got a few goodies today. Wanted to replace my impact sprinklers which aren't very consistent with the coverage. I saw some reviews on this sprinkler and it seems pretty gentle/consistent and was in stock locally, going to pick up one or two more to make sure I have full coverage. Wanted to play around with a water timer last year as well but never bit the bullet, so I decided to pick one up for this reno.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Finished filling the hole from the tree, as well as all the divots and problem areas that I knew were low.

Also, put down the first app of glyphosate (a little late on my projected timeline, but it has been raining on and off the last 3 days and I didn't want it washing away right after I put it on).


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## briansemerick

good luck! did a complete reno on my back in fall 2019 with Mazama/Midnight and did my front fall 2020 with mazama mono stand and midnight mono on my strip.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@briansemerick Nice! Which one do you like the best mazama/midnight mix or a monostand of one or the other?

Update: Temperatures took a dip down to the 40's this past week so I don't think very much glyphosate has been absorbed by the lawn. There definitely seems to be some more brown vs. last week, but I'm going to try using a finer mist nozzle with a bit more surfactant on this upcoming application.

There is also less rain in the forecast this upcoming week so it will get more of a chance to be absorbed before being washed off.


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## briansemerick

I'll let you know next summer. It seems to take a full season and a half for it to really get thick and full.  But I do like having monostands in some ways because you know exactly what is your grass and what is invasive and should be removed. Plus it's very consistent in color.


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## john5246

you can step on all that dirt that you used to fill in the tree stump. After that only the top 1/2 or so needs to be loose


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks for the reply @john5246, I actually chased down one of the (numerous) lawn care companies that handles my neighbors yard and had them roll my yard for 20 bucks after I was finished lol.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Used the Sun Joe dethatcher/scarifier yesterday which really pulled up a lot of dead material and left some nice grooves throughout the whole lawn and kind of helped smooth things out a bit more. I think most of the lawn is dead, there are still a few sprigs of green grass here and there.

A few questions:

Do you guys think these few sprigs of green here and there are a concern or will the bluegrass overtake it? Or should I do another glyphosate application this week, which would be my third?

Also do you think that with the slits from the scarifier the lawn is thinned out enough? Or do I need to try to remove more material before seeding? I can see bare dirt throughout most of the lawn where the slits are obviously.

Picture below for reference of what it's looking like:


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## KoopHawk

I'd hit it with gly one more time and run the scarifier over it one more time in perpendicular to the first time. Then get the seed in the ground. I think you're going to have really good results.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks for the response. I'll go ahead and do one more glyphosate application (was thinking maybe I could return the second bottle and not have to use it :lol:, oh well).

Just for clarification, I did go over it 2x, once in each direction. It's just hard to see the vertical slits at the angle in the photo.

I think I'll hit it with the dethatch attachment again to try and pull up some more of the dead grass and then make another pass with the scarifier right before I seed this weekend just to make sure I have good soil exposed everywhere.

I was thinking about dropping it down from -5mm to -10mm, but I will be covering the seed with peat moss so that may bury the seed too deep. Thoughts?


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## AndyS

briansemerick said:


> But I do like having monostands in some ways because you know exactly what is your grass and what is invasive and should be removed.


This! Nail on head @briansemerick

Identifying weeds or intruding grasses becomes so easy. You just look for anything that's not your *** and pull it or nuke it.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Applied the third round of glyphosate today, unfortunately it is going to rain in about 3 hours, but I think that should be enough time for the gly to dry... just to be safe I may hit it again Thursday or Friday before I seed on Saturday.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Seed down day!

1. Ran the scarifier over the lawn one more time then raked the debris up.

2. Put down 4/oz per acre rate of mesotrione as a pre-emergent with no surfactant.

3. Spread half the seed, put down peat moss across the whole yard (maybe could have used some extra here), then spread the other half of the seed on top and lightly raked it in.

4. Finished it all off with a nice drink.


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## CDR

Good luck. Looks good, I have that sunjoe too and I'm amazed at how well it works. Even on rake mode it was pulling out a lot of thatch the the scarifier did a great job braking up hard dirt for a recent reseed.

What did you use to level your yard as it didn't look like sand....Straight topsoil or did you mix in compost? I need to level and keep wussing out on sanding right away as it's just so bumpy now, from what I have no clue as it's a 4 year old lot only.

What do you envision cutting your new *** at once complete...real short or longer?


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@CDR I used pulverized topsoil to fill in the holes and raise some of the lower areas. My local nursery carries it in bulk and it's basically a mixture of pulverized clay/sand, very little organic matter.

The area where the tree was had a decent amount of wood flakes left. We removed all the wood 'chips' and bark pieces/branches and twigs but a decent amount of the chainsaw 'dust' (which are more like really thin flakes of wood) were left behind in the hole. I added two bags of Miloganite into the hole, on top of the remaining wood flakes, before filling it with the topsoil. The Miloganite should provide food (nitrogen) to help break down the remaining organic matter without robbing the soil above. We also had it ground out 2x, down to a depth of about 10-12 inches, so there is a LOT of topsoil to the point where hopefully the roots of the grass aren't growing directly into decomposing wood flakes. My plan is to spoon feed the tree area with nitrogen if it looks at all deficient compared to the rest of the lawn.

As far as HOC I'm looking at cutting it around 2.5 - 3 inches. I like the look of thick grass and don't want to worry about getting it perfectly flat and scalping. It also helps crowd/shade out weeds and retain moisture during the summer.


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## CDR

That's what I figured I'd use first as I don't want stuff to settle. Then come in eventually down the road once established and put compost as a top dressing or maybe sand eventually though like you, I don't want it to be 1/2" tall
But rather 2-3"


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Been pretty busy with a kitchen remodel that is happening at the same time as my lawn renovation (thank god for water timers). But about 2-3 days ago (day 11-12) we have germination! :bandit: :thumbup:


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## FuzzeWuzze

KoopHawk said:


> CaffeinatedLawnCare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply, I have irrigation
> 
> I'm still debating between the two. I have the stump grinder coming back tomorrow to grind down some high spots (want to make sure the roots have room to grow). If I start spraying glyphosate this week, I could potentially seed on April 25th. Timeline would look something like:
> 
> April 7th - gly
> April 14th - gly
> April 17th - scalp/scarify/aerate (is 10 days from the first app and 3 days after the second app enough time to get a full kill?)
> April 18th - fill low spots/level lawn
> April 21st - last gly app on anything that remains
> April 25th - (potentially power rake/scarify one more time?) Seed down/tenacity app for pre-em
> 
> On the other hand, delaying would give me extra time to really level out the lawn and as SNOWBOB11 said I can keep the grass actively growing through summer and start the kill process earlier (early July) in order to time the seeding for the end of July/Aug 1st. I feel like this will result in less rushing to get things done in terms of prep work.
> 
> Let me know what you think about the above timeline (and questions).
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> It really depends how level you want things to be. If you want a putting green, having all summer to do it might be beneficial. If you want it pretty level, you should have plenty of time this spring.
> 
> Skip the scalp/scarify/aerate on April 17th and do that on seed down day or the day before. Why do it twice?
> 
> Water the day after you gly so the grass processes it as much as possible.
> 
> What's your weather look like for the next couple weeks? NW IA is pretty close weather wise to the southern 1/3 of Wisconsin and it is going to significantly cool back down. This might be a question for someone else but how much does grass process gly at lower temps?
Click to expand...

IMHO you can make it level with just soil/compost but eventually if you want a truely level/bump free lawn you need to include sand which wont be until a year or so after its planted anyways. Do your best to get it level, but fully expect decomposition/bugs/rain/birds/squirrels to ruin your perfectly flat surface. I only sand leveled one area of my KBG last year after aerating and removing cores, and let me tell you the soil there is night and days different than the pale grey dusty clay everywhere else(which is getting aerated+sand tommorrow actually).


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@FuzzeWuzze that is definitely true. In the original post I only intended to get it as flat as possible relative to what it was after the tree came down (which was a hot mess). The only way to really get that putting green flat surface is to use sand.

You were spot on about the birds that is for sure, I have never seen so many birds in my life. My lawn has been a smorgasbord for them this past week and a half since I've been watering. I swear every time I look out my window there are at least 2-3 out there. RIP to my earth worm population. :lol: :bd: I swear I've watched them get fatter by the day, but maybe that is just the bluegrass fever causing me to hallucinate while I waited for germination.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

The whole yard is starting to get a nice green tint to it:



Plus some obligatory night time photos:


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## isuhunter

Looks like your off to a good start!!!!


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks! I'm seeing a ton of germination all throughout the yard.

Wondering if I should start cutting back the watering now or keep it up for the full 28 days.

We've got some stormy weather coming up in the next several days, hoping the little guys survive and don't get washed away (knock on some wood for me).


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## Liquidstone

The night shots are the money shots! Looking good.


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## situman

Put down some Propiconazile if you plan on watering often, and you should water often still. Apparently propi actually helps with root establishment. And dont be so happy yet, theres the pouting stage you still have to suffer through. Throw down some Humic and kelp if you have or just a jug of RGS.


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## briansemerick

awesome! I am patching some spots in my midnight and put the patches in with Lawn Soil, seed, and peat moss over top. Watering with a hose every time the peat gets light colored. Been 7 days, nothing yet. I feel like when I did the fall reno last fall it was germination at about 7-8 days.


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## KoopHawk

Grass babies! Remember regarding potential washout, root activity is usually much greater than the top growth.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@situman I have a bag of granular BioAdvanced fungus control (active ingredient is propiconazole) and a bag of granular Scotts Disease EX (active ingredient is azoxystrobin).

My plan was to do three applications (June 1st Bio, July 1st Disease Ex, Aug 1st Bio).

Should I move this timeline up and do the first app of Bio (Propi) now then do every 30 days from now rotating products (May 18th Bio, June 18th Scotts, July 18th Bio)? Or should I keep my current timeline and start the Propi in two weeks?

If I do move it up, should I also put down a 4th app (Scotts) in August or do you think the protection from the Jul app will last "late enough" into Aug?

I also plan to start putting down some liquid Humic/Fulvic acid soon (don't have any kelp extract). I have The Andersons fertilizer (16-0-8) with Humic DG as well to put down for my first feeding, which I was planning to do at about the 4 week mark, so around the end of May as well.

In general I wanted to give the lawn at least 2-3 weeks of growing before walking on it, so my plan was to start applying fert/humic/fungicides around June 1st. Does this sound reasonable or should I just start throwing it down now.

@KoopHawk Good to know and at least I will be able to turn off the sprinklers ... for a little while at least :lol:.


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## situman

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> @situman I have a bag of granular BioAdvanced fungus control (active ingredient is propiconazole) and a bag of granular Scotts Disease EX (active ingredient is azoxystrobin).
> 
> My plan was to do three applications (June 1st Bio, July 1st Disease Ex, Aug 1st Bio).
> 
> Should I move this timeline up and do the first app of Bio (Propi) now then do every 30 days from now rotating products (May 18th Bio, June 18th Scotts, July 18th Bio)? Or should I keep my current timeline and start the Propi in two weeks?
> 
> If I do move it up, should I also put down a 4th app (Scotts) in August or do you think the protection from the Jul app will last "late enough" into Aug?
> 
> I also plan to start putting down some liquid Humic/Fulvic acid soon (don't have any kelp extract). I have The Andersons fertilizer (16-0-8) with Humic DG as well to put down for my first feeding, which I was planning to do at about the 4 week mark, so around the end of May as well.
> 
> In general I wanted to give the lawn at least 2-3 weeks of growing before walking on it, so my plan was to start applying fert/humic/fungicides around June 1st. Does this sound reasonable or should I just start throwing it down now.
> 
> @KoopHawk Good to know and at least I will be able to turn off the sprinklers ... for a little while at least :lol:.


Throw things down now. Last thing you want to do is walk on it when it really gets hot. I plan to do the same fungus control regiment. Got a crap ton of the Scotts during black friday for $10 a bag. The bioadvance didnt budge in price but got a few anyways.

I think the Andersons 16-0-8 have kelp in it. Or you can buy a bag of the 5-0-0 Anderson from Yardmastery.com


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## Harts

This is going to come up soon, if it hasn't already: when do I cut the new grass for the first time.

This is a great article from Purdue. The summary is, cut when the first of the new grass reaches 2". Cut it back to 1.5". You're first cut will only actually get a small percentage of grass. But with each subsequent cut, you'll cut more and more grass. Keep cutting it back frequently to 1.5" for 3-4 mows then you can adjust to your normal HOC.

Cutting early and often encourage the new turf to fill in.

Many people make the mistake of letting their grass get to 4" before the cut it.

On the day before you plan to cut, back off on the watering to allow the ground to firm up. Make as many turns on your drive way as you can. But new grass is more resilient than we give it credit for.

https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ay/ay-3-w.pdf


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## uts

This needs picturessss


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## JDgreen18

uts said:


> This needs picturessss


I agree


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

I don't see it getting very hot in the next week or two, extended weather forecast has us around 70-75 degrees daily max temperature for the next 2-3 weeks with nighttime temps around 55-60. The 5 year average is about the same until mid June when it will start hitting the 80s during the day consistently.

With this in mind, should I hold off another week or two before walking around applying granules? Mostly worried about flattening the new seedlings. I imagine this would be right around the time the first of the seedlings get to 2" which is when @Harts mentioned to start mowing (thus it must be relatively safe to walk on that point).

@uts and @JDgreen18 there are pictures on the previous page, most recent ones are from 2 days ago so I can't really provide much more than that lol it will only grow so fast :lol:.


----------



## Harts

Here is some information straight from the Reno Guide. Remember, your seed down date is irrelevant now. All counting should start the day you first saw germination. Your KBG is also going to go through a sprout and pout, where it will just linger and not grow for a period of time. You will want to pull your hair out. Be patient. It will take off again.

• 14 days after germination (DAG) - Apply a fast nitrogen source (eg. urea, AMS) at a low rate (0.2lb of N/ksqft).
• 21 days after germination- look for no germination zones and apply more seeds if needed. Start tweaking the irrigation to go a little longer and less frequent. Again, all based on your weather.
• 28 DAG - Apply tenacity (4oz/acre rate no nis) and it depends on the weed pressure.
• 28 DAG - another spoon feeding of nitrogen and maybe some milo.
• around 28 DAG or whenever the grass is above 2in in height - mow at 1.5 to 2in. Yes be careful in the turns but it will be fine. Let the soil dry a hair before mowing. A manual light weight push reel mower helps. Keep mowing at this height for ~4 weeks. Keeping it below the 2in mark helps the grass to grow tilers and spread.
• 45 days - more nitrogen as needed. Keep using a fast nitrogen source.


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## KoopHawk

Harts said:


> This is going to come up soon, if it hasn't already: when do I cut the new grass for the first time.
> 
> This is a great article from Purdue. The summary is, cut when the first of the new grass reaches 2". Cut it back to 1.5". You're first cut will only actually get a small percentage of grass. But with each subsequent cut, you'll cut more and more grass. Keep cutting it back frequently to 1.5" for 3-4 mows then you can adjust to your normal HOC.
> 
> Cutting early and often encourage the new turf to fill in.
> 
> Many people make the mistake of letting their grass get to 4" before the cut it.
> 
> On the day before you plan to cut, back off on the watering to allow the ground to firm up. Make as many turns on your drive way as you can. But new grass is more resilient than we give it credit for.
> 
> https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ay/ay-3-w.pdf


This is great advice. I'd take it even farther and say keep cutting it low as long as its feasible for you to do so, particularly with elite, low mow varieties.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@Harts sounds like I should wait another week or so before walking on it to apply fert/fungicide since I saw germination around the 12th that would put me at 14 DAG on the 26th or next Wednesday.

I'll plan to do the propiconazole + fert/humic dg next week then. I'll take your recommendation and do multiple light fertilizer apps (was initially going to just do 2 apps of 0.5lbs N per M, 4 weeks apart) but I'll split that up into .25lbs every other week until summer hits.

@KoopHawk I can definitely see encouraging it to spread/fill in initially, but I plan to mow at 3" the majority of the time, personally I think it looks better than super short grass. What can I say, I like a nice thick lawn. To each their own.


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## briansemerick

thick and tall are two different things... My neighbor has tall grass - and it looks like it's balding underneath  I have short grass and it's thick AF


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## KoopHawk

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> @Harts sounds like I should wait another week or so before walking on it to apply fert/fungicide since I saw germination around the 12th that would put me at 14 DAG on the 26th or next Wednesday.
> 
> I'll plan to do the propiconazole + fert/humic dg next week then. I'll take your recommendation and do multiple light fertilizer apps (was initially going to just do 2 apps of 0.5lbs N per M, 4 weeks apart) but I'll split that up into .25lbs every other week until summer hits.
> 
> @KoopHawk I can definitely see encouraging it to spread/fill in initially, but I plan to mow at 3" the majority of the time, personally I think it looks better than super short grass. What can I say, I like a nice thick lawn. To each their own.


Here is why I suggested to mow it lower, encouraging it to fill in, as long as possible. I planted Bluebank KBG last spring and I still have thin areas where the grass is growing laterally when the thicker areas are growing vertically. The sooner you can get all the areas of your lawn to thicken up, the sooner you will have a thicker, fuller looking lawn.

I mowed at 2.75" 3 days ago so the surrounding grass is likely 3"+.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@briansemerick You have a point that's true. :lol:


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@KoopHawk I took your 'as long as it's feasible' statement to mean indefinitely, aka I should just be mowing sub 2" for the rest of it's life since it is possible to just continually mow that low. But I see your point of getting it nice and filled in before I start raising the height.


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## Harts

Your reno will still look thin at the end of this season. KBG takes full 1 to 2 seasons to start looking it's best.

You can cut it back to 2" for as long as you like. Mowing frequently is what will encourage it to thicken up and fill in, along with nitrogen. The "frequently" part is what's important.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

So I found a decently sized ant hill that must have formed overnight in the reno. Does anyone know if it is safe to spray Bifenthrin or something similar on the newly germinated lawn as a blanket app? Otherwise what would you recommend to take care of the little buggers?


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## briansemerick

I say just use a broom and knock it down. they're good for aeration and I wouldn't risk hurting young grass. I had a bunch of ant hills too recently after some rain.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

So I went out to take some pictures and actually found a few more spots so it looks like I'm dealing with a little more than the one pile ...

This is the first one I noticed because it is mounded up higher and the widest pile ...



I saw these while taking a closer look, they aren't mounds more flat spots with entrance holes ...







And then some straggler piles ...


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## briansemerick

yup looks exactly like my front yard right now. Mazama, planted last Sept. Of course I have grass, but the easiest thing is just to broom or rake it. I reel mow and it would hit the dirt.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Quite a difference 5 days can make ... Most of the more bare looking spots have at least a few grass plants growing in them so I'm hopeful it will fill in once I start mowing and feeding it. Tried to knock down the ant hills I could reach the best I could without walking on the lawn very much (stood on the curb with a broom and knocked them over).

~5 DAG


~10 DAG


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Wondering what everyone uses for their spoon feeding applications, I mentioned earlier I have a bag of 16-0-8 to put down, but I see most people talking about using straight urea, any recommendations?

Has anyone tried The Anderson's Humic Coated Urea? Looks like it might be a nice product to get some humic + nitrogen at the same time.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Went ahead and decided to order a bag of the 44-0-0 HCU I mentioned seems it can be dissolved and applied via a sprayer and with my small area it works out to about 1lb of product per application which is about 1$ per app, I can live with that.

Couldn't resist doing something with the lawn so I went and applied the Propi today and some fertilizer (I know I'm a day or two early from the 14 DAG lol).

Pulled some random longer grass as well that I'm thinking is either some leftover fescue growing back in or poa that made it through the mesotrione, they were noticeably longer than the rest of the KBG. There are definitely a couple pure white grassy weeds that the mesotrione has smoked growing where the tree was/new soil is, so at least it did it's job on some of it.

We're starting to get all kinds of spinners from the numerous maple trees in the area was thinking about taking my less powerful leaf blower and trying to blow them out of the yard, but I also don't want to be walking on it that much ... do you guys think I should leave them alone? Less than 20% coverage of the spinners at the moment so I don't know that it's worth trying to blow them out.

Here are a few updated night pics:


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Helicopters were raining from the sky today with all the wind ... went from 20% coverage to almost 70% I had to get some of them off somehow.

I tried the leaf blower first but it just wasn't working, had to go over the test spot 3-4x to get the spinners off which would have been more stress and trampling than a quick pass with the mower I felt like. So I ended up using my 14 in. sun joe mower (which weighs all of 20lbs :lol to suck them up. Left the sprinklers off for most of the day and made a test pass in an inconspicuous area to make sure the grass didn't get pulled up. Seemed to work good and was the most minimal disturbance I felt like.

Decided to spray down some humic afterwards since we're expecting rain for the next few days and I don't feel like trying to apply it in the rain tomorrow :bandit:.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

We are having a stretch of high temperatures in the upper 80s to mid 90s for the next 3 or 4 days but then it looks to be coming back down into the low 80's upper 70's after that.

A few of the grass blades are starting to get up to the 2" mark, still plan to begin mowing next week as there should be a bit more to actually cut by then and the temps will be coming back down. Applied another dose of humic 2 days ago (21 DAG).

I have dropped the watering down from 4-5x per day to 2x (once at 4am and once at 4pm, 10 mins each) now that I'm past the germination window.

What should my watering schedule look like moving into summer heat?

1. Remain at 2 short waterings per day indefinitely until fall.
2. Move down to 1x per day once the temperatures come back down from the 90s (maybe throw in an extra watering on really hot days).
3. Move down to 1-2x per week (normal) watering at some point and, if so, when?


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## Liquidstone

I think your watering plan sounds legit. It's so easy to overthink these things but I understand your concern going into summer with higher temps. That being said, I like your plan and just tweak it if you see too much stress. I'm sure you're looking forward to that first mow.


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## Harts

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> What should my watering schedule look like moving into summer heat?
> 
> 1. Remain at 2 short waterings per day indefinitely until fall.
> 2. Move down to 1x per day once the temperatures come back down from the 90s (maybe throw in an extra watering on really hot days).
> 3. Move down to 1-2x per week (normal) watering at some point and, if so, when?


You do not want to water twice a day for the next few months. As your lawn establishes, you will want to back off on frequency but increase duration until you are ultimately watering 2-3x per week at 0.5" each time.

I would argue that your current 4am watering can be moved up to somewhere between 7am to 9am.

After another week, I would increase the time to 15-20 mins for a week.

Then one week at once a day for 25-30 mins.

Then every other day. Then 2-3x per week.

There is no official timeline. Each reno has it's own unique variables. This is something you're going to have to feel your way through.

Do you happen to know how long it takes to put down 0.5"?


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## BH Green

My watering plan last summer after a reno was similar to what Harts described above. Slowly increase duration and lower frequency of watering as the grass matures. Have a general plan and schedule in mind but be flexible and adapt to your daily conditions.

For me it became more challenging after moving to every other day, and then 2-3x per week, because at that point your roots are still pretty shallow and if you get a bad heat wave for a couple weeks with no rain you have to ramp up the frequency again.

Also watch for fungus and try to let leaves dry out before the sun goes down every night if possible.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks for the responses. I'm using a water timer (mentioned earlier in the thread) that is pretty simplistic and only allows for certain increments of time (every 4, 6, 12, or 24 hrs) I didn't want to water past 4-5pm so it was either 4am/4pm or 5am/5pm on the 12 hour setting. Figured a little earlier in the AM was better than a little later into the PM.

The sprinklers themselves put out about .1" per 10 mins. So I'm currently watering about .2" daily over the two waterings. I would need to water roughly 1hr for .5".


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## KoopHawk

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> We are having a stretch of high temperatures in the upper 80s to mid 90s for the next 3 or 4 days but then it looks to be coming back down into the low 80's upper 70's after that.
> 
> A few of the grass blades are starting to get up to the 2" mark, still plan to begin mowing next week as there should be a bit more to actually cut by then and the temps will be coming back down. Applied another dose of humic 2 days ago (21 DAG).
> 
> I have dropped the watering down from 4-5x per day to 2x (once at 4am and once at 4pm, 10 mins each) now that I'm past the germination window.
> 
> What should my watering schedule look like moving into summer heat?
> 
> 1. Remain at 2 short waterings per day indefinitely until fall.
> 2. Move down to 1x per day once the temperatures come back down from the 90s (maybe throw in an extra watering on really hot days).
> 3. Move down to 1-2x per week (normal) watering at some point and, if so, when?


FWIW here was my watering schedule from last year. I seeded on May 29. Days are DAG.
4x a day up to day 14.
2x-3x a day to day 35.
1x a day to day 56.
Every other day to day 70.
Basically treated it like normal grass after day 70. When it showed signs of getting dry, I watered it. I pulled some cores around day 60 and had root activity down 4"-6" with nice moisture.


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## Harts

I would move it to 6hrs and water at 9 and 3. Or 8 and 2. Your grass is probably still wet at 4am.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@KoopHawk Thanks, I actually was looking through your old journal trying to find that info but you never actually mentioned the watering schedule (just that you used a crap ton of water :lol. That sounds roughly similar to what Harts suggested so I will probably go with that, obviously adjusted slightly if it dries out too much/we get some good rainfall.

@Harts just for clarification, the 6 hour setting (if I set it to start at 9am) would water at 9am/3pm/9pm/3am (every 6 hours). It doesn't take into account 'night time' or allow you to specify the number of waterings to do each day, it is just based on the hourly time. The 4 hour setting does 6x per day, the 6 hour setting does 4x per day, the 12 hour setting does 2x per day and the 24 hour does 1x per day every day.

It's not ideal, but it worked for germination.

It also can do once per day every X number of days up to 7, so you can set it to water every day, every other day, every 3 days, every 4 days, etc. Really the biggest downfall is pretty much the scenario you mentioned simply because it will continue watering through the night.

I would probably give it like a 3/5 stars if merely for the fact that it is only about 20$ and 'relatively' versatile. Not something I would recommend for anyone trying to run a serious irrigation system. Once the grass is established I plan to water it manually anyway so it's not something I need long term, more of a stop-gap measure.

Just my mini-review of the orbit water timer.


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## Harts

I understand. Just turn the hose off after the afternoon watering then turn it back on before 9am the next morning? That's what I did with my overseed on my old lawn. My timer was similar.


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## KoopHawk

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> @KoopHawk Thanks, I actually was looking through your old journal trying to find that info but you never actually mentioned the watering schedule (just that you used a crap ton of water :lol. That sounds roughly similar to what Harts suggested so I will probably go with that, obviously adjusted slightly if it dries out too much/we get some good rainfall.
> 
> @Harts just for clarification, the 6 hour setting (if I set it to start at 9am) would water at 9am/3pm/9pm/3am (every 6 hours). It doesn't take into account 'night time' or allow you to specify the number of waterings to do each day, it is just based on the hourly time. The 4 hour setting does 6x per day, the 6 hour setting does 4x per day, the 12 hour setting does 2x per day and the 24 hour does 1x per day every day.
> 
> It's not ideal, but it worked for germination.
> 
> It also can do once per day every X number of days up to 7, so you can set it to water every day, every other day, every 3 days, every 4 days, etc. Really the biggest downfall is pretty much the scenario you mentioned simply because it will continue watering through the night.
> 
> I would probably give it like a 3/5 stars if merely for the fact that it is only about 20$ and 'relatively' versatile. Not something I would recommend for anyone trying to run a serious irrigation system. Once the grass is established I plan to water it manually anyway so it's not something I need long term, more of a stop-gap measure.
> 
> Just my mini-review of the orbit water timer.


I didn't really have a schedule the first couple weeks because I would have to run my system pretty much all afternoon to keep the top of the soil moist while running a hose to supplement. I did keep it in my log what my 'plan' was tho and I was pretty close to following that thru the summer.

It is very strange. We are having the same type of weather now as we did exactly a year ago. The last 3-4 days have been 95-100 degrees with 25-35 mph winds with the wind only subsiding to 10-15 mph at night. It is impossible to get adequate coverage for watering from your irrigation system in that kind of weather without getting the hose out. My buddy just finished up an addition to his house and although he has about 1/3 of the yard that I do and he is in town with more shade and wind breaks, he is having the same issues I did with keeping his seed moist. Gives me PTSD hearing him talk about it.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Yeah we are about 10-15 degrees above average temperature here, normally around 75 currently sitting at 90. The weather is definitely not helping the sprout and pout, although before this temperature spike I was seeing some additional growth but that has stopped now and a lot of the lawns around the neighborhood are browning out.

My concern is the area where the tree was is starting to turn a little lime green/yellow. Assuming it needs some nitrogen, but I'm not sure about spraying it in 90 degree weather. Was planning to do an app of N on 28 DAG (6/9) as well as my second app of mesotrione since I'm starting to see quite a bit of crabgrass and some broadleaf weeds. Should I plan to apply the fert/meso early in the morning or late in the afternoon when it's back down into the 80s? Or hold off altogether for another week or so for the temps to come back down for a day, the one spot where the tree was definitely needs some nitrogen.



It's definitely easier to tell in person that area is a lighter green/yellow. You can see it in the second (26 DAG) photo below as well if you look to the right side of the mailbox just below the neighbors mini.

10 DAG

26 DAG


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## g-man

Go granular AMS and try to drop more seeds in front of the mailbox.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Do you think the granular AMS will be safer than spraying urea at a low dose .2lbs/M?

I was wondering if it's worth seeding those areas now heading into summer or if I should wait until fall to reseed those areas that are pretty bare. I have adjusted the sprinkler coverage to hit that area now, which is why it didn't come in very well. Just wondering how it'll do this late into the spring.


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## g-man

Granular will get to the soil and it will be used by the roots as needed. I don't like forcing new grass blades with foliar nitrogen.

Yes drop seed now since you are committed to watering this lawn all summer long. Just don't look at the water bill.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

:lol:

I just got a bag of Humic Coated Urea granular fert (but I would dissolve and use as a liquid app), I was thinking apply it and water it in, not leave it on the blades. Do you think that would be fine? If so does it matter when I'm applying it (temperature wise) since I would be watering it in immediately afterwards? I can always go out and pick up another granular fert but would rather use what I have if it's not going to hurt anything that way.


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## g-man

I don't about this product.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

It is basically just urea with a 2% humic acid coating so instead of 46-0-0 it is 44-0-0. The granules are soluble in water for spraying.

Added a 4th sprinkler today to address some of the bare spots that weren't getting water a little more effectively. Each sprinkler is now spraying about 90 degrees on all 4 corners of the yard.

Had one hell of a time finding a sprinkler in this early heat, apparently everyone else had the same idea because the store shelves were empty! Almost every sprinkler/hose fitting was sold out. Had to drive across town to find the same orbit gear-driven sprinkler as the rest of the ones I have, but I found the last one.

Pictures of the new setup:


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## Liquidstone

Good work on the new sprinkler set up. Looks like you'll be getting a lot better coverage.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Definitely better coverage, still not 100% but I probably only had about 80-85% before and now it's probably 95%.

I might swap the (slightly) shorter 2 hose setup by the driveway for a slightly longer one and put that sprinkler more in the corner by the curb. I had it moved a little over a foot away from the curb because I didn't want to soak my mailbox but I was able to angle it so it shoots under the mailbox (still hits the pole, but that is acceptable as long as my mail isn't getting soaked). But that is probably the only adjustment I'll need.

Figured I should do that before I throw more seed down in those areas. Going to do the fert/meso tomorrow (28 DAG) since it's supposed to cool off a little bit, then be hot again for the next 3-4 days after that before finally dropping into the low 80s again Monday. Figure I'll do the first mow on Monday then (33 DAG), that will give the mesotrione time to work before chopping anything off.

There isn't much to cut at the moment anyway, since nothing has really been growing with the heat (except the crabgrass, which seems to love it).


----------



## Green

Good to see this is going pretty well. I think you'll see a lot more Spring renovations as time goes on. As long as you're not in the South and don't have a drought/watering restriction, it can be done on reasonable areas. I'm thinking of putting seed down for an early start in late June myself.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Went ahead and applied AMS granular fert at .25lbs N/M as recommended and mesotrione at 4oz/acre rate yesterday.

Also decided to apply some Hydretain to hopefully help the grass survive the upcoming heat a little better, we will see how that does. I plan to keep up with the watering anyway obviously, but we haven't been getting much rain to help out. Going to put down some more seed this weekend in the bare spots.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Reseeded today, put down about 3/4lb of seed between all the thin areas. Adjusted the sprinklers a little bit as well.

You can really see the mesotrione starting to work already in these warm temperatures, it's only day 3 since I applied it and a lot of the crabgrass that was growing in is white already, even some of the more mature looking plants (past the 3rd/4th tiller) are bleaching out.


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## Chris LI

Great journal! I'm still going through it from the beginning and am intrigued. I'll be following. Good luck!


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks Chris!

Just picked up a new Orbit water timer today that operates by Bluetooth so I can control it from my phone. This one will allow me to program the specific times of the day I want to water, so I don't have to mess with an hourly increment or trying to overcome the limitations of the other one by physically turning the faucet on/off. So far the app seems easy to use and it does what I want/expect.

Should work out better than the other timer and this one was only 15$ more.


----------



## situman

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Thanks Chris!
> 
> Just picked up a new Orbit water timer today that operates by Bluetooth so I can control it from my phone. This one will allow me to program the specific times of the day I want to water, so I don't have to mess with an hourly increment or trying to overcome the limitations of the other one by physically turning the faucet on/off. So far the app seems easy to use and it does what I want/expect.
> 
> Should work out better than the other timer and this one was only 15$ more.


Did you have the option to buy it with the wifi hub? The bluetooth function is pretty much useless.

https://www.amazon.com/Orbit-21006-B-hyve-Wi-Fi-Gray/dp/B07QPW6KV3/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=8YFUZ&pf_rd_p=138eb05e-0690-4979-a6da-7a70b321c201&pf_rd_r=44A29C4258W4EJQDMF75&pd_rd_r=ab1a6d04-ced0-4976-974e-7dc9a33ac35f&pd_rd_wg=6QRFI&ref_=pd_gw_hl_comp_mis_psims

or

https://www.amazon.com/Orbit-B-hyve-21004-Faucet-Compatible/dp/B0758NR8DJ/ref=pd_di_sccai_1/133-5763650-9942538?pd_rd_w=xlaII&pf_rd_p=c9443270-b914-4430-a90b-72e3e7e784e0&pf_rd_r=G8FB7AFX8YBHBVRWYZG1&pd_rd_r=519aa938-4eaa-4b1b-8db8-501a21d467f4&pd_rd_wg=ZwytM&pd_rd_i=B0758NR8DJ&psc=1


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

The bluetooth has worked just fine so far, you only use it to connect to set up your programs or activate a manual watering (which now that my program is set up properly I shouldn't really need).

I also work from home so I'm almost always here, I guess if I was away from home more often I would think about getting the Wifi hub so I could monitor it remotely. But so far it is working good.


----------



## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Just finished up the first mow today, exciting times .

Noticed a tan spot in the yard about 4 feet from the curb, thinking one of the neighborhood dog walkers let their pet use my lawn as their toilet. Decided to put down the azoxy just to be safe since the propi went down about 3 weeks ago and only lasts up to 4 weeks. Rather be safe than sorry.

Also put down another application of humic.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Saw a little bit of germination yesterday around day 5 after planting the bare areas. Much more germination tonight, pic below is the area by the mailbox. Luckily that last app of mesotrione was extremely effective, almost all of the crabgrass is completely dead now and the clover has been dying out this last week, you can see a little in the top left area of the picture below which is taking a beating. I'll plan for the 3rd app of meso in another 4 weeks if it is needed, which would leave me 1 more 4oz/acre app for the year. By the time fall rolls around I should be far enough out to use some crossbow/trimec type herbicide anyway so I'm not too worried about broadleaf weeds.

Mostly trying to make sure I kill/pull any poa. I saw a couple long-bladed/clumpy looking grasses today that were obviously different than the rest of the KBG which I pulled before mowing. Pretty much just slowly going over the whole lawn plucking any grasses/grassy weeds I think don't belong. If I have any feeling that a particular grass plant is growing too quickly vs the rest of the good KBG I just pull it, rather be safe than sorry. The rate of growth between the three varieties seems to be pretty consistent, I have a pot of the mix that has been growing since the end of March and it is almost all the same height every time I trim it, none of the varieties grow much faster or slower that I've noticed.

Here is the germination:


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## briansemerick

" If I have any feeling that a particular grass plant is growing too quickly vs the rest of the good KBG I just pull it, rather be safe than sorry."

You sound like me. LOL


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Lol my neighbors probably wonder why I'm pulling out bits of the grass I just planted :lol:.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Finished up the second mow today definitely got more clippings than the first mow. The area by the road and the area by the driveway are thickening up to the point where I can't see soil anymore. The dirt where the tree was the grass is definitely growing in more slowly. I think I'm going to have a soil test done just from that section to see if it needs anything aside from extra nitrogen.


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## situman

WHat kind of temps are you getting in your area? I'm trying to do the same kind of growing from seed and man its been hot and dry by the East coast.


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## briansemerick

what's up with the near corner?


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@situman last few weeks were in the high 80s to 90s and we have had a total of about 6" of water so far this year, if you look closely in the picture above, my neighbors yard is straw brown from the heat/drought. I have been putting down water 2x per day 15 mins each, but recently switched back to 3x per day 10 mins each to get some seed going in the bare areas. I've also been spot watering the bare areas 2x per day on top of that as well.

This leads into the answer to @briansemerick's question, which is that my sprinklers weren't hitting that area so nothing grew there. That's why I added the 4th sprinkler and re-arranged them. Same as the strip on the left side of the yard, which also wasn't receiving much water since it was at the edge of the sprinkler coverage before.

Now that the sprinkler coverage is fixed (mostly) I have re-seeded those areas and got some germination yesterday, which I posted a picture of a few posts back. That is the same area in the germination picture you just can't see the sprouts yet in pictures except at night :lol:.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Here is the same area a day later, you can actually see the sprouts growing in the daylight today, must have grown a couple cm over night.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

6/23 ~42 DAG - Hit the lawn with another dose of nitrogen at .25lbs/M using the granular AMS again.

Sent in a soil sample from tree area today as well as another random sample of the rest of the yard, just to get a baseline of where we are at at this point. I'll update the thread when I have the results of each, they estimated about a week.

6/24 ~7 DAG - Newly seeded areas are looking good I think we're fully into the sprout and pout phase now.



Dealing with this weed that is popping up in the corner of the yard. I think it is some kind of sedge that used to be planted as an ornamental plant by the bush that was there. You can see it circled in an old picture of the house below. Let me know if A.) this is a sedge and B.) if you know the type. Tenacity seemed to bleach it, but it is starting to show some green again, so I don't think I got a full kill on the ones that got sprayed. Some newer shoots have popped up recently with all the watering for the new seed. Repeat applications of tenacity might take care of it, but I'm assuming halosulfuron would do a better job?




Here is the picture of the fully grown plants that used to be there ... it is popping up in both the same spots that those grassy looking plants used to be. Again, assuming these are sedges.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

~44 DAG Pic for attention/bump. Maybe someone can answer my question about the presumed sedges above :thumbup:.


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## uts

Unsure what that is but I would paint it with gly and let it die slowly to the root.


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## g-man

Does it smell like onions?


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

It doesn't smell like onions, I'm thinking either a sedge or I found some Lily type ornamentals that look similar to that last picture. At any rate I'm thinking I'll try another app of tenacity once the new seed in that area is 4 weeks old. I have 2 more 4oz/acre apps left for the year to hit the 16oz/acre limit.

I'm going to try to time it so my 4th app is also the pre-em app for the fall over seeding (if I think over seeding is necessary at that point). We will see how the new sections fill in, if they get close to where the rest of the lawn is I probably won't worry about seeding again in the fall and just push the existing grass with nitrogen.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

With the nice weather/rain we've been having the grass grew almost an inch and a half in 5 days. It's definitely starting to grow faster now that it is more mature. Mowed it and threw down a little bit more seed here and there in the bare areas. It's starting to stripe which is pretty cool.


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## KoopHawk

That is looking awesome.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks @KoopHawk, definitely looking good so far, once the bare areas are a bit more filled in I will be pretty happy with it.

Brought in two soil samples on Friday to the local co-op, one from the tree area, and one from the rest of the yard. Got the results back today, which were pretty simplistic, basically just a check card with the pH and low/med/high marked for the N-P-K and no mention of micros.

Here are the results:

Tree area:
pH: 6.7
Nitrogen: Low-med
Phosphorus: medium
Potassium: Low

Rest of the lawn:
pH: 7.4
Nitrogen: Medium-High
Phosphorus: medium
Potassium: Low

First off, the pH, I'm guessing that the tree area is a bit lower due to the decaying wood chips and foreign soil. This may come up a bit once the wood chips are fully broken down in the next year or so, though at 6.7 it is within the optimal range. The rest of the lawn being at 7.4 isn't too worrisome and the grass seems to be growing well. Not going to worry about trying to lower the pH much.

On to the nutrients, the tree area is low in Nitrogen compared to the rest of the lawn (not surprised). The Phosphorus levels are 'medium', which makes sense since I've been using Milorganite pretty much exclusively on the old lawn and Potassium levels are 'low', which again, makes sense since I haven't added any.

I bought The Anderson's 16-0-8 specifically to add some potassium to my fertilizer plan, which I think should work out well with the additional AMS/Urea applications based on these results. It also contains some Sulfur which should gradually help the pH as well (though again, not too worried about it at 7.4 it is pretty close to the optimal range).

Since nothing is really out of whack, I think I will just continue to roll with it for this year, put down some extra nitrogen in the tree area, and get a more comprehensive test done next year and see where it's at.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

We have had more rain in the last week than in the whole last 3 months, there was none forecast for today so I decided to try to re-seed the washout area at the end of my downspout ....

Mother nature had other plans:


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

~50 DAG - Couldn't spray yesterday due to the rain but I put down some more humic today and got out to mow. Decided to put on the DIY striper kit.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Since it's been 3 weeks since my azoxy app, I went ahead and threw down the preventative rate (2lb/M) of Propi today as we are into some hot/humid weather with the rain we have been getting recently.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Picked up a sun joe 21" mower for my mother but it was too heavy for her since it has a steel deck and no self propel. I got a great deal on it so instead of bringing it back it looks like I have a new toy. Had to equip it with a roller so I stopped at the local orange box store and made one up. Tried it out on the back yard which normally gets neglected :lol:.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Area by the road is starting to fill in nicely still a little patchy but almost ready for its first mow. Some of the blades are starting to hit the 2-3 inch mark so I will probably mow it tomorrow.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Went ahead and mowed the area by the mailbox today at 1.5". Brought the rest of the yard down a smidge from 2.25" to 1.75", trying to gradually ease them into the same HOC so I don't have to mow them separately and adjust the height in between.

Since it's been a few weeks since my last fertilizer app and we are having some relatively cool weather I decided to put down some of the Anderson's 16-0-8 at 1.5lbs/M (~0.24lbs/M N and ~0.12lbs/M K). It is a pretty fine prill size so it spread evenly even at that low rate. Seems like a quality product will be excited to see the results in a week or so.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Went down to 1.5" today, pretty much as low as I can get it without scalping a few of the uneven areas. Going to continue to mow at this height for a while, while the new grass starts to thicken up and then start to integrate the new area into the main lawn mowings.

A little patchy around the edges but hopefully once I can kill off the crabgrass it will spread and fill in. I'm still getting some new germination in the thin areas that I threw seed onto in the last couple weeks, so I don't want to spray any herbicides at least for a couple more weeks along the edges.





Edit: Didn't like the yellow the sunset gave the lawn so I went and retook some pictures :lol:.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Got out early this morning and put down some liquid iron/humic acid to see if we can darken this thing up a bit. I've heard that Bewitched typically doesn't darken up until year 2-3 but we will see what happens. It is looking nice so far just want to see what we can achieve by the end of fall.


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## g-man

This is not even two months old. I would advise not to rush with iron and kill your lawn.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Noticed what I think is some fungus today went out and put down 4lbs/M of azoxy (curative rate) it has been warm and we have been getting a lot of rain the past few weeks so I'm guessing my last app got washed away or lost effectiveness. Picked up a bottle of the liquid propi to spray as a foliage app in a week or two just in case the azoxy doesn't do it. Does this sound like the correct course of action? There is definitely one area that looks more brownish which is how I noticed it but I found some throughout the rest of the yard as well.

Should I pick up a third kind of fungicide? Or do you think one of those two will be fine (even though those are what I've been using as a preventative)?


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## situman

Damn your soil is overly saturated it seems.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

It just rained like 2 mins before I took those pictures :lol:, except for the first one which was from earlier.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thinking this is some leafspot and the azoxy should take care of it, let me know if anyone else thinks differently. Plan to cut back on my watering a bit since most of the seed has germinated.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@g-man didnt see your post. I put down a pretty light dose of iron it was 4oz/M and label rate is 8-16oz/M.

Pretty sure what I'm seeing is fungus and not because of the iron. But if I'm wrong let me know … I don't plan to add any more until maybe next month and probably only again at the quarter-half rate. But if you'd advise against that I'll skip it.


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## g-man

4oz/M of what product? What matter is the rate of Fe.

The second image you posted looks like the lawn is turning black from iron or it could be fungus or both. In the top part of the image, there is a different grass/weed and it doesn't seem affected.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

https://simplelawnsolutions.com/products/darker-green-liquid-iron-micro-nutrient-blend-32-ounces

Says it is 6% iron. The weed is some crabgrass I believe.


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## g-man

They dont post their label online, so I dont know the source of iron.

6% * 4oz/ksqft = 0.24oz of Fe/ksqft I use around 0.2oz Fe/ksqft in my lawn. But I use dry oz instead of liquid. The bottle should have a way to convert the liquid to weight (density).


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@g-man It doesn't give any kind of conversion but the bottle says it is derived from Ferrous Glucoheptonate.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

On the plus side, if I did kill it, it is still early enough for a fall renovation :lol:.


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## lbb091919

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> On the plus side, if I did kill it, it is still early enough for a fall renovation :lol:.


That's the spirit!


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Well it is definitely still growing so that is good at least, went out to check on it and it was about a half inch longer than the day before. Mowed it and decided to bag to prevent spreading fungus from that one area.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Haven't posted anything in a while, just been mowing/watering. Grass is definitely still alive so no fall renovation needed . I'll be putting down the second curative rate of azoxy on Wednesday (14 days since last dose) just to make sure I kill any fungus that might have been brewing.

Sprayed my last app of tenacity yesterday, seems to have taken out the day lily/sedge plants that were growing before but I'm still dealing with some crabgrass here and there and a sizable section of it along the driveway which you can see in the picture below.

Hoping the tenacity knocks it out otherwise I will probably spray it with some quinclorac in 2 more weeks. I also spotted a decent amount of black medic growing in. I'll try to get a picture of the black medic tomorrow for confirmation.

Been holding off on spraying anything other than tenacity just to see what all makes it through. I know tenacity won't kill the black medic but I would like some cooler weather before I spray something like a triclopyr/trimec mix. I could probably get away with it if I sprayed it early morning or in the evening but let me know what you think.

Here is the most recent picture after mowing today:



Can't wait to get some cooler weather so the section by the mail box really starts growing in.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Here are the pictures of the 'black medic'. It seems to be more stalky than clover had to pull it up out of the lawn a bit to get a good picture. I do see a bit of lightening in the newer leaves so we will see if the tenacity knocks it down. Otherwise I'll probably hit it with some 24d/triclopyr in a week or two.


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## Green

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Here are the pictures of the 'black medic'. It seems to be more stalky than clover had to pull it up out of the lawn a bit to get a good picture. I do see a bit of lightening in the newer leaves so we will see if the tenacity knocks it down. Otherwise I'll probably hit it with some 24d/triclopyr in a week or two.


Never seen that plant in person. I can't get a good answer, even from wikipedia, as to whether it's actually a type of clover or not. Sounds like a good debate for some Botanists. It's considered a hop clover but not a true clover, even though it's in the clover family. Whatever that really means. It's not like Oxalis (which isn't a clover at all). So I guess it's sort of a clover.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

I found the following article from Purdue on black medic which seems to match what I'm seeing. If you look closely at the image I shared you can see the slightly longer stem on the top/center leaf of the 3 leaf cluster and a tiny notch or spur at the leaf tip, as well as the low growing height.

https://turf.purdue.edu/black-medic/


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## g-man

Get a bucket/bag and just hand pull those weeds. It is such a small area that you will be done in no time.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

There is definitely more than can be seen in the couple images I posted. It is interspersed throughout a decent portion of the lawn (maybe up to half) and is low growing and intertwined with the grass. More tedious and definitely more than I would want to hand pull that is for sure :lol:.

On the plus side one of the articles I read mentioned that they free up/release nitrogen for the plants growing nearby so that is a short term benefit while they are growing before I kill them off.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Put down my last app of azoxy yesterday.

Everything is looking good now aside from the weeds but those will be dead in time. Tenacity is doing its job and I picked up some Q4 to use on the black medic since it contains quinclorac and should help with the crabgrass as well.

I think some of it might be goosegrass/johnson grass (image below) and not crabgrass now that it is more mature, a few of the bigger plants don't seem to be responding to the tenacity as well as the rest of it.

Plan to use the Q4 tomorrow or Saturday with the upcoming cooler weather (should be mid 70s).

Today I gave it a quick mow and got down .25lbs/M of nitrogen to promote some growth before I spray.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Decided to pull any grassy weeds that I wasn't 100% sure would die from the tenacity/Q4 … so pretty much anything that I didn't think was actually crabgrass. Got on a roll and started pulling some of the crabgrass as well. Filled almost 3/4 of a 5 gal bucket :lol:. Was actually more satisfying than I thought it would be.


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## g-man

And faster than any herbicide.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Got out today and hand pulled the grassy type weeds from the rest of the lawn. Only section I didn't pull is the dense area next to the driveway because the grass between the crabgrass there is so thin if I hand pulled it the area would be bare … going to let that section naturally die out so the grass that is there will take over and fill in.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Security cam alerted me to a neighborhood cat running across the yard and I realized you can still see the stripes in the lawn in the middle of the night  (camera actually makes it look brighter out than it is lol the porch light is not that bright honest :lol.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Applied the Q4 yesterday at the label rate. Today I noticed a few of the random broadleaf weeds (there aren't many aside from the black medic) look brown and decrepit. The crabgrass by the driveway is also not loving life.

Not much of anything happening yet with the black medic after 24hrs though. Hopefully we see some results within a few days to a week or so. I will probably spray some triclopyr on it after 2 weeks if I don't see any results by then.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

So now that I have a (mostly) established (yet young) lawn I plan to do a fall nitrogen blitz as was suggested on the first page of this renovation (applying .25lbs/N per week through Oct.). However, I'm wondering about pre-emergent applications for the fall to prevent additional poa germination. I have a bag of The Anderson's Barricade on DG PRO, which is AI prodiamine.

I figure I have another 3 (maybe 4) weeks maximum before the pre-em would have to go down as the temperature will start dropping around the end of this month into Sept, normally.

While the majority of the grass is ~3 months old (~4 months by the end of this month) the newer areas by the mailbox and the strip by the neighbor are only ~7 weeks (~10-11 weeks old by the end of the month, so less than 3 months old).

This brings up 2 questions:

1. Will the prodiamine affect the KBG at this point? Mostly concerned about stunting root development.

2. Will the pre-emergent stop the KBG from spreading and filling in? I imagine the rhizomes are trying to grow and root in the same vicinity as the pre-emergent is working.


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## uts

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> So now that I have a (mostly) established (yet young) lawn I plan to do a fall nitrogen blitz as was suggested on the first page of this renovation (applying .25lbs/N per week through Oct.). However, I'm wondering about pre-emergent applications for the fall to prevent additional poa germination. I have a bag of The Anderson's Barricade on DG PRO, which is AI prodiamine.
> 
> I figure I have another 3 (maybe 4) weeks maximum before the pre-em would have to go down as the temperature will start dropping around the end of this month into Sept, normally.
> 
> While the majority of the grass is ~3 months old (~4 months by the end of this month) the newer areas by the mailbox and the strip by the neighbor are only ~7 weeks (~10-11 weeks old by the end of the month, so less than 3 months old).
> 
> This brings up 2 questions:
> 
> 1. Will the prodiamine affect the KBG at this point? Mostly concerned about stunting root development.
> 
> 2. Will the pre-emergent stop the KBG from spreading and filling in? I imagine the rhizomes are trying to grow and root in the same vicinity as the pre-emergent is working.


I've seen most people put down prodiamine at 60days. If you want you can go with one more app of tenacity and get another 30d.. as long as you dont exceed the total amount of tenacity recommended.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

uts said:


> CaffeinatedLawnCare said:
> 
> 
> 
> So now that I have a (mostly) established (yet young) lawn I plan to do a fall nitrogen blitz as was suggested on the first page of this renovation (applying .25lbs/N per week through Oct.). However, I'm wondering about pre-emergent applications for the fall to prevent additional poa germination. I have a bag of The Anderson's Barricade on DG PRO, which is AI prodiamine.
> 
> I figure I have another 3 (maybe 4) weeks maximum before the pre-em would have to go down as the temperature will start dropping around the end of this month into Sept, normally.
> 
> While the majority of the grass is ~3 months old (~4 months by the end of this month) the newer areas by the mailbox and the strip by the neighbor are only ~7 weeks (~10-11 weeks old by the end of the month, so less than 3 months old).
> 
> This brings up 2 questions:
> 
> 1. Will the prodiamine affect the KBG at this point? Mostly concerned about stunting root development.
> 
> 2. Will the pre-emergent stop the KBG from spreading and filling in? I imagine the rhizomes are trying to grow and root in the same vicinity as the pre-emergent is working.
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen most people put down prodiamine at 60days. If you want you can go with one more app of tenacity and get another 30d.. as long as you dont exceed the total amount of tenacity recommended.
Click to expand...

I sprayed my last app of tenacity (hit the 16oz/acre yearly limit) last week Sunday on the 25th (I also did it as a foliar app w/ surfactant so I'm not sure it will be giving much of a pre-em effect anyway) so that will definitely be gone by the end of the month when fall weeds would be germinating.

If most people put down prodiamine at ~60 DAG then I should be fine I'm guessing, just worried about stunting the grass right when I'm trying to push it.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Took down my sprinkler setup today. From now on I plan to just water with a regular oscillating fan type sprinkler and the hose as needed (depending on rainfall). I figure I don't need it to be automated anymore since the grass is mature enough that it doesn't need more than one deep watering per week (depending on rainfall). This should be easy to accomplish manually. It will also give the lines where the hoses/sprinkler heads were all summer a chance to fill in this fall.

I also plan to help my mother overseed her front lawn this fall (starting this weekend as well, but I don't think I'm going to keep a journal of that effort though). So I will be lending her my hose timer/gear driven sprinklers now that I'm done with them.

Since it has been about two weeks since my last fertilizer app and we are starting to get into the nitrogen blitz territory, I decided to go out and put down another .25lbs/M of nitrogen via The Anderson's 16-0-8 (3lbs/2k sqft). I'll plan to do another app of this next week at the same rate and then take a break for a week before starting to spray the Humic Coated Urea (44-0-0) at 1lb/2k sqft (.22lbs of N/M per week, yard is slightly smaller than 2k so it is closer to .244lbs N/M using 1lb HCU).

8/10 - The Anderson's 16-0-8 (3lbs/2k sqft .25 lbs N/M)
~8/18 - The Anderson's 16-0-8 (3lbs/2k sqft .25 lbs N/M)
~8/25 - Drink a beverage
~9/1 - Start HCU weekly until the end of October (1lb/1.8k sqft ~.25 lbs N/M)

Here is a picture of the lawn after a quick mow today, it has been raining non-stop for the last 2 days and I hadn't mowed for a bit before that so it was slightly overgrown and the ground was soaked. I decided to use the lighter mower without a roller on it. The area by the mailbox is filling in nicely, can't wait to see how it looks at the end of October.


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## Liquidstone

It is looking great. Congrats on a job well done! Looks like you have spent some time as well ridding some of the weeds that you had come up. No better compliment that having your mom want you to do her overseed as well.


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## Bob Loblawn

Nice work - great job doing what many say cannot or should not be done (a spring reno)! Looking forward to seeing how it looks after the blitz.

Been following along the whole time...you gave me the inspiration to also attempt a spring reno this year. It is a more shaded area than yours, so had to add more fescue instead of 100% KBG (prob 50/50 KBG/Fine Fescue). But turned out better than expected. Will definitely benefit from the Fall N Blitz and looking forward to a prodiamine app, as Poa A was a massive issue there.


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## KoopHawk

By this time next year, you won't have any bare/thin spots. That looks really good. All your hard work is paying off! Well done!


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## jskierko

This turned out awesome! After this season I will have about 3k sq ft left to reno and I plan to do it in the spring of 2022. You have definitely given me confidence that the results can be stellar.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks for the feedback! Yeah I had my doubts when I first started since only a few people said to go for it, glad I did though. Thanks to @KoopHawk for the encouragement with his spring reno as well.

Soil/grass was finally dry enough to mow today after the storms we've been having the last few days. I think this picture shows the color a little bit better it's definitely got a nice deep green in person my phone camera makes it look a little lighter than it really is. Just mowing and throwing the fert down now. Got another app of Q4 to make this weekend for the 2 week follow up and need to get the prodiamine down as well pretty soon.


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## Robs92k

Agreed, looking awesome…love the night pic!


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks Rob, I thought it was pretty neat .

Got the seed down on my mothers lawn today, scalped and ran the scarifier over it 3x and set up my hose timer so she doesn't need to worry about the watering. Put down tenacity for a pre-em and Barenbrug water saver (RTF) seed. Had some extra seed and already had all my supplies with me so I stopped by my brothers house and did his too. His lawn was in even worse shape so I hit it with gly. It was pretty much bare with a few weeds here and there anyway … nothing worth saving, less than 15% grass coverage and only ~1k sqft. I'll try to post a few pictures here once they both have some results but not going to be keeping up with them regularly. I'll check back in a week or two to make sure they are growing.

On top of that I had to put my new composite boards on the porch today (if you look closely at the last couple pictures you'll notice there are no boards on my porch :lol.

With all that excitement today I did manage to get my second app of Q4 down around 9 PM. Wondering if the late spraying (it was already dark) will have much of an effect on the efficacy. We will see how the last bit of crabgrass responds, pretty much all other weeds are nowhere to be seen at this point. Plan to give it a few days and then get my prodiamine application down as we are heading into fall soon. Maybe do that this upcoming weekend.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Put down another .25lbs of N today. First time trying out this fan sprinkler. It actually hits my whole yard, I think it might have better coverage than my 4 sprinkler set up :lol:.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Finished re-decking my porch and figured I'd take a late night shot with the outdoor lights on, even spotted a few fire flies.


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## Robs92k

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Finished re-decking my porch and figured I'd take a late night shot with the outdoor lights on, even spotted a few fire flies.


Looking Awesome!


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## lawn-wolverine

:thumbup:


CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Finished re-decking my porch and figured I'd take a late night shot with the outdoor lights on, even spotted a few fire flies.


WOW !!! Verrrry inspirational ! Looks fantastic.
I am currently getting ready to seed tomorrow with equal Midnight, Bewitched, and Skye, in front (mostly sunny); then mostly shady backyard in 100% 'Mazama.'😎


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## Bob Loblawn

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Finished re-decking my porch and figured I'd take a late night shot with the outdoor lights on, even spotted a few fire flies.


What a beautiful sight! Congrats on a job well done.


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## Chris LI

...not to pile on, but this really does look great! It makes me anticipate some type of turf sports competition will ensue, shortly (but not wishing it on you). Now you just need some stadium lighting (mercury vapor), but well placed leds will suffice. :lol:


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks everyone! @lawn-wolverine can't wait to see the progress pictures!



Chris LI said:


> ...not to pile on, but this really does look great! It makes me anticipate some type of turf sports competition will ensue, shortly (but not wishing it on you). Now you just need some stadium lighting (mercury vapor), but well placed leds will suffice. :lol:


:lol: Yup, then just have to get some grass paint for the yard-lines and put a big Green 'n Gold G in the middle  ... something like the following:









(Gotta hand it to the field crew for them stripes too ... :shock: )


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## Chris LI

A mini Lambeau field would be cool. Maybe just the Packers logo in middle of the lawn.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Definitely would be cool .

Speaking of cool things ... this happened today:


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

The remaining crabgrass is almost completely dead from that second Q4 application.

I have this one spot in the lawn where nothing wants to grow. When they were cutting down the tree I noticed an oil leak in the lawn where they had their bucket truck parked, however that was almost 5 months ago, I didn't realize it would cause the spot to be essentially sterile.

Should I dig the dirt out and replace it? If so, how far down do you think I need to dig? 6-8 inches? 1'?


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## Chris LI

I would dig out 6" or so. If you have a Pro Plugger or bulb planter, it should keep it neat and tidy. The kbg should fill in on its own, especially if you use the Fall N blitz.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Finally got out to dig out that area today, replaced it with a small pot of the grass seed blend I had been growing indoors in the same top soil as I used outside. You can tell it is nutrient deficient as I haven't fed it anything, I'll be interested to see if it turns around now that it is outdoors and will be getting a lot of N. Otherwise I'm sure the rest of the lawn will spread into it.

I also found some grub damage in one little spot (about 1"x1" area) and dug down and found a tiny grub. Went and got some trichlorfon to throw down since I never put down a preventative.

After the treatment I also noticed tons of reddish orange clumps on the grass and upon further inspection found tons of winged ants. They must not have liked the grub treatment because they were bailing ship pretty fast.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Found some more grub damage this morning in a few spots, hoping that the problem doesn't become too widespread. Got the dylox watered in this morning since I applied kind of late in the evening last night and didn't want to water.

Should I also go ahead and apply a grub preventer now (grub ex) even though I'm a bit late?


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## Robs92k

I don't think it ever too late to put down pesticides….might not get them as grubs, but I'd guess there's quite a few left. If nothing else, gets rid of the ants as well. I'm putting down duocide and Avalon…I have quite a few other pests…ants, beetles, sow worms, crickets, grasshoppers, Asian beetles, etc. nothing killing my grass yet, but doing a number on the other veg.

Still looks great!!


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks @Robs92k, I did put down the Dylox which should kill the active grubs. I haven't seen any more 'visible' damage since Thursday.

I guess my question is more focused on whether or not the 'preventative' (in this case Grub EX - AI chlorantraniliprole) is worth it at this stage or am I just throwing away money? I saw an article from Purdue (found on another post on here) that shows chloranthraniliprole (Acelepryn/Grub EX) listed as an 'early curative'.

It is also listed as being very effective(from the chart it almost looks more effective than Dylox) when applied through the end of August and into the beginning of September.

https://extension.entm.purdue.edu/publications/E-271/E-271.pdf (Page 7)

With that being said, what sounds like the best strategy?

1. Put down the Grub EX as a second mode of action.
2. Save the Grub EX for next summer to use as a 'preventative' treatment and put down another application of Dylox in a week.
3. Wait it out and see if the first application of Dylox took care of the (hopefully small) population.


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## Robs92k

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Thanks @Robs92k, I did put down the Dylox which should kill the active grubs. I haven't seen any more 'visible' damage since Thursday.
> 
> I guess my question is more focused on whether or not the 'preventative' (in this case Grub EX - AI chlorantraniliprole) is worth it at this stage or am I just throwing away money? I saw an article from Purdue (found on another post on here) that shows chloranthraniliprole (Acelepryn/Grub EX) listed as an 'early curative'.
> 
> It is also listed as being very effective(from the chart it almost looks more effective than Dylox) when applied through the end of August and into the beginning of September.
> 
> https://extension.entm.purdue.edu/publications/E-271/E-271.pdf (Page 7)
> 
> With that being said, what sounds like the best strategy?
> 
> 1. Put down the Grub EX as a second mode of action.
> 2. Save the Grub EX for next summer to use as a 'preventative' treatment and put down another application of Dylox in a week.
> 3. Wait it out and see if the first application of Dylox took care of the (hopefully small) population.


Now I'm with you…if you can keep a close eye, I say option 3 is the safest. You can always go for a second curative application and still save the preventative for next year.

Let me know how it goes. I'm doing both the curative/ preventative, with some additional backup. I might be wasting some of the properties, but I have so many pests and that was the advice the pesticide guy at reinders gave me for my area.

I barely have my lawn growing well and learning pesticides on the fly (see what I did there?)…thanks for the links and info!


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## Green

@CaffeinatedLawnCare, there is only one grub prevention AI that can be (and actually should be) applied now. I got a bag and am going to apply soon. The app works for 3 months, but will prevent for 1 full year, and gets put down in Aug. or Sept. This will be my first time trying it as it is fairly new, but it has great reviews, and has been around in some areas for at least 6 years. It's widely used in Canada, for example, where Scotts sells it, but pretty hew to the US the last few years.

There are a few brand names and application forms for it, including:

GrubGone G granular: https://greenearthagandturf.com/products/beetle-grub-control/grub-gone/

BeetleGone soluble powder: https://greenearthagandturf.com/products/beetle-grub-control/beetlegone/

The Andersons Premium Organic Grub Control: https://www.amazon.com/Andersons-Organic-Grub-Control-Covers/dp/B087DY9MJS/ref=asc_df_B087DY9MJS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=459687303305&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9543521098380230549&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003318&hvtargid=pla-942725942522&psc=1

Lawnbox GrubOut: https://www.amazon.com/Lawnbox-GrubOut-Organic-Control-Insecticide/dp/B08ND1TH3S/ref=pd_di_sccai_5/141-9171024-9315222?pd_rd_w=NQaE7&pf_rd_p=c9443270-b914-4430-a90b-72e3e7e784e0&pf_rd_r=ZFC03WNWRN2445W0MAKZ&pd_rd_r=6223e032-7881-4314-9d6a-a0ade2678b88&pd_rd_wg=r0AxT&pd_rd_i=B08ND1TH3S&psc=1

All 4 products above are the same AI/have the same mode of action.

App rate is 2 lbs/M.

Up until these products came out recently, Chlorantraniliprole (Grubex/Acelepryn) was the only preventative AI available in some states (though Imidacloprid--Merit-- is also still available in many states as well as a third option, but has some issues). Milky Spore is no good in areas like ours that get cold in Winter, so is not an option. Always good to rotate AIs every so often to prevent resistance.

Pass this info along if you found it helpful.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@Robs92k I see what you did there lol.

@Green I do see GrubGone (bacillus thuringiensis galleriae) listed under biological insecticides on the article I posted. It looks like that one is rated as "good" control (70-90%) with an application date between mid July through mid September. It looks like the Dylox and Grub EX are both listed as more effective … "Excellent" (>90%) control when applied during august. However based on the chart the Grub EX loses efficacy quickly after the beginning of September (due to not working well on the later stages of the grub lifecycle). Dylox appears to be effective through the beginning of October.

I think my plan is to just wait it out and, if needed, go for a second application of Dylox if I see any more damage in the next week. Save the other bag of Grub EX for next Summer (should probably check the shelf life on that).

I got in some mowing today after the rain we have been having and put down my first application Humic Coated Urea. It looks basically like humic acid once it is mixed up, almost black. Seems to dissolve well in plain cold water. I did get a few tiny clumps that needed some extra agitation with the paddle mixer. Overall it sprayed pretty well, I did have a slight clog at one point in my fine mist nozzle (one side of the fan had a small gap) but pumping it a couple times and giving a few quick bursts of the trigger seemed to clear out the obstruction.


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## Chris LI

I still think you need something like this, and cans of white and yellow turf paint:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Green-Bay-Packers-Stencil-Mylar-Mancave-Sport-Football-Stencils-/174031823142?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@Chris LI :lol: I may have to get ahold of the turf crew and see about sourcing an actual size stencil 22"x22" won't cut it .


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## Chris LI

:lol: I hope I planted a seed. :lol:


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDC7xOyAWzc

The first 7 mins talk about how they prepare the field, pretty interesting watch for sure. The break down of the field layers (pea gravel, heating system, sand, topsoil, KBG) is pretty cool as well as how they use synthetic fibers to hold the sand together when the turf gets beat up.


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## lbb091919

I love following your journal. Such a great combo of cultivars and it's filled in so well. This NEEDS to be reel mowed!


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## KoopHawk

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> The first 7 mins talk about how they prepare the field, pretty interesting watch for sure. The break down of the field layers (pea gravel, heating system, sand, topsoil, KBG) is pretty cool as well as how they use synthetic fibers to hold the sand together when the turf gets beat up.


The fibers they drilled into the turf was pretty cool to see.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks @lbb091919 it really has thickened up, even the tree spot and area by the mailbox are nearly full. I still notice dips around the tree area that were bare spots, similar to what KoopHawk posted about on page 3 with the grass growing horizontally and not vertically. Gives that area of the yard a 'textured'/uneven look that I don't particularly like. It's harder to see with the checkboard pattern on the lawn at the moment, but when I do straight stripes it is more noticeable. May have to try to fix that eventually, going to wait until next year to do any leveling work though.

After mowing at 2" or less for the last year the short cut look has grown on me. I have been looking at some reel mowers but I don't like fact that the cheap ones don't really stripe and the expensive ones are well ... expensive :lol:. I thought about getting a Fiskars and doing the roller mods so it stripes, but don't like the 'rifling'/wavy cut that some people have reported when trying to get around an inch or less. Makes me think I should just keep using my rotary until I can actually save up for something like a Hudson star classic cut or Liberty 43 (I like manual or electric). Wish I could find one of these more expensive ones used on FB marketplace or CL or something, but they tend to all be gas-powered ones I'm finding.

@KoopHawk yeah the whole thing is pretty cool, never thought about the fibers, the giant grow light setup they have is pretty sweet too.


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## Green

Wow, that's a great article...better than the MSU article when it comes to the various AIs. Thanks for the link!


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@Green no problem, I found it on another post here on the forum but hopefully it helps people who are flipping through here with the same issue.

I got the prodiamine down today, temps look to be cooling off after today. There is nearly a 10 degree drop off tomorrow and seems to be holding around 70 degrees for the rest of the week and possibly down to the high 60s by this time next week. Soil temp is still currently above 70 but I imagine it will drop below 70 soon.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

I found another small spot of grub damage today near one of the edges (possible I just didn't hit that spot very well the first time), but I think I'm going to go ahead with the second application of Dylox to be sure they're dead. I'd rather be safe than sorry even though there isn't much damage and it definitely isn't wide spread ...

In other news, while I was out mowing today one of the neighborhood walkers stopped to tell me my lawn looks like a carpet and asked if I was getting ready to sell my house or something since I was making it look nice/taking pictures :lol:.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Put down another .25lbs of nitrogen today. With the cooler temps of fall the lawn is starting to get its dark color, you can definitely tell the difference when glancing around the neighborhood .


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## situman

Wow. Wonder if its the midnight or maz thats giving that dark color.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

I think both the midnight and mazama start out darker than the bewitched. I've heard that bewitched can take a year or two to really darken up as much as the other two. There are some slightly lighter green sprigs mixed in which I'm assuming is the bewitched. As far as which one is giving the dark color, I would lean towards the midnight based off other posts/videos/etc. that I've seen.

The lawn overall is pretty uniform. I do have some slightly lighter sections by where the tree used to be, which I'm assuming is due to nitrogen issues in that area combined with generally unhealthier soil compared to the rest of the lawn. It is also the section that is slightly thin yet, with that 'textured' look I was talking about in my previous post. I'm hoping that with the spoon feeding over the next month or two that area will look more even in terms of color and fill in. I'm definitely hoping by next year it looks the same as the rest of the lawn.

I may end up doing some leveling/reseeding next year to the tree area to make it a little more uniform since some settling has happened and more will probably occur over winter. I actually just won a youtube giveaway from George (Princess Cut Lawn Care) for a Ryan Knorr (Landzie) Leveling rake that I'll get to try out since I don't own one currently.


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## situman

First a successful summer overseed and now freebies. Buy the lottery man!


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## KoopHawk

Midnight and Mazama are both very dark green cultivators. The sun, and the angle of the sun, makes a huge difference in the color perception too.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Definitely @KoopHawk, the picture from the previous post was early to mid day whereas the picture I posted yesterday was taken in the evening and you can obviously tell the difference. My phone camera doesn't do it justice either, I find it makes everything look lighter than it does to the naked eye.

I'm thinking about running my sunjoe with the dethatch (spring tines, not the blades) attachment to clean up some of the lawn debris/dead/diseased blades of grass from the canopy and open it up a bit. I notice in the really thick areas of the lawn (which is most of the lawn now ...) it stays moist near the ground for a long time during the day (since the temperature is staying near 70 now during the day) even though I'm not watering.

I also notice some of the lowest leaves that are stuck down in the canopy seem to have some yellow/brown color and some have fungal looking spots. I'm assuming this is just because that low area stays moist for the majority of the day and gets wet again from dew every night/morning. My thought is that the dethatch attachment will rake any dead material out and maybe open up a little bit of air flow through the canopy.

I have been watching/reading about some of the UK lawn practices that involve dethatching and verticutting regularly to remove debris/stand the grass up to be cut more evenly since they have more strict controls on fungicides and herbicides. They say it helps to control weed grasses (poa) as well since they don't respond to being verticut/dethatched as well as the KBG does.

I also saw a @Pest and Lawn Ginja video a while back talking about the head guys at Allett using dethatching cartridges daily/weekly/monthly on sports fields with no issues.

Wondering if it is too early to start running a dethatcher (again, the less aggressive spring tine attachment) on the reno? Or should I just put down some more fungicide and wait until next spring or fall to start trying some of that mechanical control?


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## rhart

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Definitely @KoopHawk, the picture from the previous post was early to mid day whereas the picture I posted yesterday was taken in the evening and you can obviously tell the difference. My phone camera doesn't do it justice either, I find it makes everything look lighter than it does to the naked eye.
> 
> I'm thinking about running my sunjoe with the dethatch (spring tines, not the blades) attachment to clean up some of the lawn debris/dead/diseased blades of grass from the canopy and open it up a bit. I notice in the really thick areas of the lawn (which is most of the lawn now ...) it stays moist near the ground for a long time during the day (since the temperature is staying near 70 now during the day) even though I'm not watering.
> 
> I also notice some of the lowest leaves that are stuck down in the canopy seem to have some yellow/brown color and some have fungal looking spots. I'm assuming this is just because that low area stays moist for the majority of the day and gets wet again from dew every night/morning. My thought is that the dethatch attachment will rake any dead material out and maybe open up a little bit of air flow through the canopy.
> 
> I have been watching/reading about some of the UK lawn practices that involve dethatching and verticutting regularly to remove debris/stand the grass up to be cut more evenly since they have more strict controls on fungicides and herbicides. They say it helps to control weed grasses (poa) as well since they don't respond to being verticut/dethatched as well as the KBG does.
> 
> I also saw a @Pest and Lawn Ginja video a while back talking about the head guys at Allett using dethatching cartridges daily/weekly/monthly on sports fields with no issues.
> 
> Wondering if it is too early to start running a dethatcher (again, the less aggressive spring tine attachment) on the reno? Or should I just put down some more fungicide and wait until next spring or fall to start trying some of that mechanical control?


Turf looks outstanding! I have also been doing some research on the verticutting on a regular basis. I am going to start trying to do this every 3-4 weeks next year to see what happens. My *** is almost too thick by the end of the summer especially reel mowing it.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

I want to give it a shot since there are a lot of sprigs of grass that get pushed down by the wheels it would comb up and pull out the dead/dying material and thin it out slightly.

Unless someone on here with more experience has any thoughts I think I'm going to go for it. The grass still has another month of solid growth and I'll be pushing it with nitrogen so I don't see the downside really aside from maybe stressing it out a bit.

Cut it down an extra notch today but scalped it in one spot near the end of the driveway where it tapers out, pretty much as low as I can get it with the rotary without murdering it completely :lol: :bd::


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Decided to just send it, went over the the lawn 2x with the spring-tine attachment.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Got in a quick mow today, not much came off since it is still pretty stressed from the power raking. I imagine it will take a week or two to recover fully. Put down my weekly app of .25lbs of N/M today since it is supposed to rain Sunday and possibly Monday.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

The "controversial" Ryan Knorr lawn level rake from Princess Cuts Lawn Cares YouTube channel review video giveaway is now in my possession.

Landzie has graciously shipped me a replacement handle right away. Can't wait to use it to level out the Reno next year.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

So instead of just a new handle I received an entirely new leveling rake, so now I have two :lol:. Even stranger is that they included the old aluminum handle as well as the new steel one, you can definitely tell it is a lot more heavy duty. Overall good customer service by Landzie and it shipped quickly.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Found an awesome deal on a new fiskars reel mower and decided to pick it up. For 50$, brand new, I figured I couldn't go wrong.

Reel mowed the yard but kept it at 1.5" to make sure I didn't scalp it. Did a double cut, didn't really see any "rifling" at 1.5" but I hear it is more noticeable at 1" and below. Surprised it actually stripes without a roller, plan to convert it to rollers at some point here.



Bonus pic, the sweet sticker I got with my hat:


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## Chris LI

You stepped in it *reel* good, on both accounts! :lol:

Keep up the good work! :mrgreen:

Edit: I just realized the obvious pun that I missed and had to put it in bold. :lol:


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## Green

As time goes on, I'm less and less of a fan of Bewitched monos, and more and more a fan of blends and mixes containing Bewitched (from my own experience using it mixed, as well as weeing journals like yours with blends, versus those that used it alone). Also, I think Mazama has somewhat overall superior turf quality from an appearance standpoint compared to it.

I have a similar Fiskars reel mower (only difference is the front wheel size--smaller on mine, so not sure if they modified it during the production run, or created a whole new model #). It's very versatile and gets the job done on new grass. How do you like yours? I think I paid like 200 for it, or close to it.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks Chris , had some luck recently let's just hope it doesn't lead to a run of bad luck now lol 🤞.

@Green I am enjoying it so far (only used it once). Only thing that will take some getting used to is when you get to the end of a row you slow down so the reel stops spinning as fast and doesn't really cut. You kind of have to push it over that spot or do a border pass/double cut it in the opposite direction to clean up the ends. I do like how quiet it is, makes me feel like I can stealthily mow and no one will know I'm out there/judge me for mowing pretty much every single day :lol:. Maybe they won't notice me out there and it will give the illusion that I'm not cutting it constantly.

I also got in touch with Striperman from YT to learn how he did his rear wheel roller today so I will be converting this over to rollers at some point here pretty soon.


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## mribbens

Here you go, down the rabbit hole of reel mowing, as everybody says I am not going sub 1 inch, but man, it is addicting. I have that manual reel, it is great for overseeds and renos, used it on my front all last year at 1 inch, did very well for me


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## Chris LI

You're welcome! I thoroughly enjoy your journal. I was a bit tired last night and missed something obvious, when I posted. I made a proper edit above.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

I see what you did there lol.

Got the rear wheels on the fiskars with the help of Striperman. Unfortunately they're a bit smaller width wheels than what he used so there is some gap between them but it works pretty well. They're also slightly larger diameter than the original other two wheels, however, it doesn't really seem to affect it much. I'm satisfied with it. Once I get the front roller on it will work a bit better too.


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## rhart

Looking forward to seeing how that works for you. Like others have said....this is where is all begins...you will have a powered reel mower within a year


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## Lust4Lawn

I'm amazed at the stripes you are getting from a manual reel. My SunJoe hardly stripes at all. Overall I've really enjoyed manually mowing as odd as it sounds. Even my wife now will take it for a spin.

Now she is talking about making the jump to a powered reel.....


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@Lust4Lawn The stripes were mostly left over from my last mow with the rotary mower w/ the DIY striping kit on it. I just went back over them with the Fiskars, that's why they're as visible as they are. Granted, they should be pretty nice with the full set of wheels and front roller I'm planning to add to the Fiskars.

@rhart After using an electric mower for so long I don't think I'll ever go back to gas, that pretty much leaves the Swardman Electra and the Allett Liberty as far as powered reel mowers go. I plan to level my lawn next season, but we are also planning to redo our roof and possibly invest in some solar panels at the same time next year. I also plan to insulate our garage and possibly build a shed for my growing collection of yard toys. Unfortunately, I don't think a powered reel mower will be in the budget for me until at least the following year. Unless someone on here has a sweet deal on one of the aforementioned reel mowers :lol:.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Got in a mow with the new wheels on the Fiskars. Definitely stripes better now with all the back wheels added. Can't wait to get the front roller in, have it on back order from Ashland Conveyor, ships on Monday .


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Still waiting on the front roller which should ship out tomorrow.

The overseed on my mothers yard is coming in nice and thick, don't have a before picture but it was patchy and brown/dead in places. There was also a small tree that was removed on the left side of the yard that had different grass from the rest of the yard (some cheap ryegrass that grew twice as fast as the rest). Looking much better now:



Bonus picture of my yard after the most recent mow with the Fiskars:


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Got the front roller delivered yesterday and made the brackets for it/mounted it today. Unfortunately it is raining so I won't get to try it out yet, but I'm excited to give it a shot.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Got out for the first cut with the new roller attached. Stripes are maybe slightly more pronounced with the roller, but the main advantage (aside from helping to keep it from scalping) is that there are no tire marks in the stripes (or just not as noticeable). Before I would always end up with at least a slight tire 'strip' through each stripe from the overlap unless I tried super hard to make sure I didn't overlap.


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## rhart

Very nice…with those mods what is the lowest hoc you can get?


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

I have the roller brackets angled down so that the roller is closer to where the wheels were originally in height, which puts the lowest hoc at about .9"(originally it can go down to 1" with the wheels). But if I were to angle the roller up to be in-line with the wheel brackets it would probably be somewhere between .5"-.7". Though I have heard with the Fiskars that the frequency of cut when you go that low leaves you with a "rifling" pattern in the grass. I haven't really seen it yet but I am cutting at about 1.5" with it currently which looks pretty nice.


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## Liquidstone

It looks awesome. Cool mods to that fiskars!


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## rhart

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> I have the roller brackets angled down so that the roller is closer to where the wheels were originally in height, which puts the lowest hoc at about .9"(originally it can go down to 1" with the wheels). But if I were to angle the roller up to be in-line with the wheel brackets it would probably be somewhere between .5"-.7". Though I have heard with the Fiskars that the frequency of cut when you go that low leaves you with a "rifling" pattern in the grass. I haven't really seen it yet but I am cutting at about 1.5" with it currently which looks pretty nice.


Very good thanks for the info


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks, hopefully it inspires someone else if they were on the fence about it. I'm liking it so far.

Only thing I would change is that I wish I could have found wheels that I didn't need to drill out for the axle. Since I used a hand drill, and some of them aren't quite straight, they wobble slightly and a couple have a bigger gap than I'd like (close to 1" gap between a couple of them since they are off center in a pattern sort of like this "\ /"). It doesn't really affect it much though, eventually I may try to fix it or replace them, but getting the spring for the height adjustment back on sucked. Probably won't worry about it too much since it doesn't seem to affect how it rolls and doesn't leave any weird marks/gaps in the stripes that are visible. Just slightly annoying for my OCD lol.


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## Natron

Your Fiskar mods are fantastic! I'd like to do something similar with mine. Do you mind sharing your process and where you sourced the extra wheels?


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Sure @Natron, basically you take off the black metal side plate (the side without the gears/chain). There are several Allen bolts that hold it on and two hex bolts (the ones for the bed knife adjustment). I used an Allen socket/ratchet to take them off (not enough leverage with a regular Allen key). There is also a C-Clip that needs to be removed from the rear axle before you can take the plate off (do this first). Once you have the plate off you can remove the wheel/bearing from the axle to slide the new wheels on. Once the new wheels are slid onto the axle, replace the outside original wheel/bearing and C-Clips. Then put the side plate back on and re-install the height adjustment spring (probably the most difficult part is getting that spring back on, at least it was for me).

1. Remove axle C-Clip
2. Remove Allen/Hex screws holding on the side plate
3. Remove side plate/adjustment spring
4. Remove outside wheel/bearing/C-Clips from axle
5. Slide on new wheels
6. Slide on outside wheel/bearing/C-Clips into position
7. Re-install side plate/adjustment spring

I got the extra wheels from the local Fleet Farm in town. They are simply 8" replacement wheels for a mower made out of poly/plastic.

For the front roller you just remove the wheels and fashion up some brackets and attach them with the bolts.

Credit to Striperman (youtube) for sending me the info originally.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Got some new teejet nozzles on the way, which should be here this weekend. Ordered a turbo teejet and another XR teejet, both in a different flow rate. The yellow one I have now I have gotten used to and it just feels like I'm walking excessively slow. When I originally ordered it, I had calculated everything out for 40 psi (before I got the 21 psi CF valve). So it would have been pretty much perfect until I changed the pressure. I recalculated everything and decided to just step it up one notch to the purple nozzles. Which will allow me to walk a little faster but still not risk over applying anything. I figured it's better to err on the side of caution, I can always walk a bit slower comfortably but I don't want to feel like I'm rushing or end up going too slow and put down too much on too small of an area.

My calculations put me at needing around 0.19 GPM as a good flow rate for my walking speed to get 1 gal per 1k sqft. The purple nozzle puts out 0.18 GPM at 20psi (just a hair less than my ideal rate for my walking speed, which means I should never run out short unless I go too slow). The yellow puts out 0.2 GPM at 40 psi (which was my original calculation, just a touch over my desired rate so I would have had to walk just a hair faster to not run out) but unfortunately it only puts out 0.14 GPM at 20 psi (which is why I'm having to walk almost 1/3 slower than I'd like).

I'll be excited to try the new turbo nozzle out this weekend for my next fertilizer app.

Picture of the most recent mow with the new Fiskars setup:


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## weirj55

That is awesome with the Fiskars mods. Love it. Lawn looks great and the stripes are popping!


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks weirj55, the fiskars is fun.

The lawn has definitely taken off over the last few weeks. Temps are in the 70s still but should be coming down over the next week or so. It has been growing like crazy, I cut off a half inch two days ago and it was already over an inch taller today. Can't even imagine doing the 0.5lb/N per week blitz :lol:.

I did notice some light green grass that I'm assuming is poa annua (saw a seed head starting to form on one of the ones I pulled out). Luckily it is a small (maybe 5'x5') area. It is in the far corner of the yard by the house that gets the most shade (north end) and was part of the area that I had to reseed near my gutter downspout, which is probably why it was able to grow in there. It is mixed into a pretty healthy patch of good grass and is more mixed in than I'd want to hand pull (though I may decide to try). Kind of curious to see if just verticutting/pre-em/watering infrequently can kill it off. I figure, worst case scenario, I just section off that area and reno it at some point.

I'll try to get a picture of that little section up tomorrow sometime. Let me know your thoughts.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare




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## briansemerick

looking great!!! that last photo is poa triv I think. annua comes up earlier and dies off earlier, and it has seeds that stick out looking like a T


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## situman

The ripples on one of the leaves is a dead giveaway is a poa of some kind.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

briansemerick said:


> looking great!!! that last photo is poa triv I think. annua comes up earlier and dies off earlier, and it has seeds that stick out looking like a T


I read in the following Purdue article that poa triv rarely produces a seed head when mowed. I would think that based on this, since I'm cutting around 1.5" regularly, poa triv wouldn't be producing seed heads? I think the seed head in this photo is simply not 'spread out' yet, since it just started growing in. The article also mentions that poa annua starts germinating in late summer/early fall, which would line up with what I'm seeing as well. I think poa triv has stronger 'lines' or 'ripples' on the leaves more like a tall fescue does.

https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ay/ay-41-w.pdf


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## briansemerick

My poa annua patches were bright green and the seed heads were very small and stuck straight out - and they were there in June/July. I really hope for your sake that it's annua. In either case, throw down Prodiamine right now.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

It is only in that corner really. Worst case I'll see how it goes next year, if it comes to it I'll kill that section off and redo it. Gives me something to do in any case. I already put down prodiamine about a month ago at the maximum rate. It most likely got washed away in that spot because of the downspout dumping out right there.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Temperatures are starting to come down quite a bit, today was only 46 degrees out for a high. Rest of the week looks like mid 50s for highs with lows of around 34-36.

Thinking this weekend will be my last fertilizer application (sad day). Overall super happy with how the lawn turned out this year.

I did notice a couple patches that look like fungus recently even though it is cool outside, think I'm going to put down some propiconazole to prevent any spread. I put a picture below for reference, not exactly sure what type of fungus this would be this late in the season, though the grass has been moist for extended periods of time due to the lack of evaporation. Kind of looks like necrotic ring spot, which would make sense with all the moisture.


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## Green

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> briansemerick said:
> 
> 
> 
> looking great!!! that last photo is poa triv I think. annua comes up earlier and dies off earlier, and it has seeds that stick out looking like a T
> 
> 
> 
> I read in the following Purdue article that poa triv rarely produces a seed head when mowed. I would think that based on this, since I'm cutting around 1.5" regularly, poa triv wouldn't be producing seed heads? I think the seed head in this photo is simply not 'spread out' yet, since it just started growing in. The article also mentions that poa annua starts germinating in late summer/early fall, which would line up with what I'm seeing as well. I think poa triv has stronger 'lines' or 'ripples' on the leaves more like a tall fescue does.
> 
> https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ay/ay-41-w.pdf
Click to expand...

I'm going to give you another article...this one's my favorite so far: https://www.genesisturfgrass.com/news-event/view/rough-bluegrass-can-be-your-worst-lawn-nightmare/

It answers your seedhead timing questions.


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## jskierko

I will willingly eat crow on this one. I will out myself for anyone following this journal. Going back to the first page of this journal I voted to wait until the fall to proceed with this reno. I am happy to admit I was wrong. You killed it this season with a super successful spring reno!


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## Stuofsci02

jskierko said:


> I will willingly eat crow on this one. I will out myself for anyone following this journal. Going back to the first page of this journal I voted to wait until the fall to proceed with this reno. I am happy to admit I was wrong. You killed it this season with a super successful spring reno!


You were not wrong IMO... Statically spring renos do fail far more often than fall ones. Far more luck is required from the weather and care from the owner in the spring. It is still, however, possible and CLC showed that. I have also been watching this journal closely (but quietly) along the way hoping for the best. I always cheer on every reno like its my favorite sports team. This one was a nail biter...


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## situman

This certainly inspired me to do a failed backyard reno reno in the spring. Big diff is I'm fallowing it all winter lol.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@Green Thanks for the article, that one was good as well. I'm still hoping that it's annua but like I said if it continues to be a problem I will reno that area again. Hoping that I can get the KBG to outcompete it with the right cultural practices next spring but if it looks bad next fall I'll just kill it off.

@jskierko and @Stuofsci02 thanks a bunch, I would have to agree that unless you're going to be 100% dedicated (obsessed :lol you should probably wait until the fall. I was lucky in some ways too that there was almost no rain in the beginning of this year, since I didn't have to deal with any major wash outs and I could control the water going down (unfortunately for my wallet :bd. But it is definitely doable in the spring with a little luck and some vigilance.

@situman I think that is my #1 regret was not allowing as much fallowing time as I could have. I thought that if I didn't get the seed down as early as possible it wouldn't grow, but I was able to put down seed almost mid summer and have it grow in just fine. Looking back I would have rather waited another 2-3 weeks and spread out my glyphosate applications more while fallowing to get any late germination killed off.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Started lowering the HOC the last couple mows, took it down to 1" today. Can't really get it any lower without scalping way too much. Actually scalped a couple little spots with the rotary trying to get it down to 1.5" to reel mow it.

You can definitely see the rifling from the Fiskars at ~1" cut. It wasn't very noticeable when I had it around 1.5" but definitely stands out at 1" (I think it's actually more like 0.8-0.9" with the roller, haven't really measured). I plan to go over it in a couple different directions tomorrow after work to smooth it out a bit, just ran out of time today since it is getting dark around 6pm now.

Going to get another application of fungicide down this weekend and water it in before I put the hoses away for the season. It is starting to get near freezing temps at night (had a low of 34 the other day), day time has been hanging around the 50s the last week or two but looking to be going down around 45 highs next week and lows in the upper 20s at night.

Plan to just keep reel mowing it at 1" for the next few weeks until whenever the growth stops.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Well it finally happened today … first frost .


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## Wile

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Started lowering the HOC the last couple mows, took it down to 1" today. Can't really get it any lower without scalping way too much. Actually scalped a couple little spots with the rotary trying to get it down to 1.5" to reel mow it.
> 
> You can definitely see the rifling from the Fiskars at ~1" cut. It wasn't very noticeable when I had it around 1.5" but definitely stands out at 1" (I think it's actually more like 0.8-0.9" with the roller, haven't really measured). I plan to go over it in a couple different directions tomorrow after work to smooth it out a bit, just ran out of time today since it is getting dark around 6pm now.
> 
> Going to get another application of fungicide down this weekend and water it in before I put the hoses away for the season. It is starting to get near freezing temps at night (had a low of 34 the other day), day time has been hanging around the 50s the last week or two but looking to be going down around 45 highs next week and lows in the upper 20s at night.
> 
> Plan to just keep reel mowing it at 1" for the next few weeks until whenever the growth stops.


That is so cool to see those stripes from a manual reel. How's the fiskars? Easy to push with the chain drive?


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

As long as you're not trying to take too much off in one go it's pretty easy to push, no more difficult than my non-self propelled rotary.

The only time I had an issue with it was when I tried going all the way to the lowest setting, felt like I was pushing it through a forest. That was mostly due to how much grass it was trying to go though.

Now that it is cut low, I just trim it every few days and it cuts really well. The rifling has also went away quite a bit now that I've cut it in multiple directions and am keeping on top of it.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Did some leaf cleanup and got another mow in yesterday, not many clippings since my last mow, growth has definitely slowed down quite a bit. Had more frost this morning. Not a sight I like waking up to, but alas, this is Wisconsin.

I foresee at least a few more weeks of mowing to pick up leaves. Most trees seem to be dropping their leaves right around now, there are a few more stubborn ones that are still green however so hopefully all the leaves are gone before the snow starts. We will see.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Got our first snow last week, luckily it all melted off already and I was able to clean up the rest of the leaves and mow one last time.

Grass is still hanging in there, but I can tell it has lost some of it's color and has all but stopped top growth.


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## briansemerick

looking for some midnight or mazama 100% pure and can't find anything that I feel good about right now. Superseedstore is out. Any suggestions? I want zero weed seed.


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## situman

briansemerick said:


> looking for some midnight or mazama 100% pure and can't find anything that I feel good about right now. Superseedstore is out. Any suggestions? I want zero weed seed.


CD Ford and Sons. United Seeds.


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## briansemerick

have you ordered from them before?


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

briansemerick said:


> looking for some midnight or mazama 100% pure and can't find anything that I feel good about right now. Superseedstore is out. Any suggestions? I want zero weed seed.


I ordered mine from SSS, not sure where else you could go. I still have probably 6-7lbs of the blend I used left ... though I'm looking at potentially needing to reseed the section by the curb I'm thinking road salt got it ... :bd:. Could potentially ship you like 3-4lbs though if you're interested for a few $.

Also, do you guys think this will recover come spring? The only two things I can think of that would have happened:

1. The plow pushed road salt up onto the yard and it is salt burned.
2. The snow melted off faster by the curb and thus it is more dormant than the rest of the grass which barely even turned brown this winter (though closer to the house has more shade so the snow didn't melt off there as quickly).

It also has been raining a lot so I'm hoping that would have flushed any salts a little bit, however, with the ground still being pretty frozen (current 5 day average is 36 degrees) I don't think any salt would have even migrated very deep into the soil profile yet.

Thinking my options are:

1. Wait and see how it turns out if it's just a lot more dormant compared to the rest of the lawn
2. Wait for soil temps to get into the 40's (ish) and put down some gypsum/water that section deeply several times a week to try to flush any salts.
3. Don't put down any gypsum (haven't done a soil test yet so not sure if that's a good idea) and just let rain/water flush it out.

What would you guys do?


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Soil temps have shot up over the last week or so. We're having some 80 degree weather this week (from about 50-60 degree air temps the last few weeks). Got my prodiamine down about a week ago while soil temps were still around 45 because I knew it was going way up soon, seems I was right. Grass has just started actively greening up, but still not producing a whole lot of clippings yet. So may have another week or so to go before it is fully awake, probably going to be growing like wild fire after this week of warm weather.

I am noticing a bit more green popping up near the road, a few sprigs here and there in the brown areas and one decent looking group of sprigs between the mail box and driveway that was previous all brown. There are also some small broadleaf weeds popping up along that strip as well that I'll have to take care of at some point.

Still not sure what will happen with it, but it seems as the weather warms up more and more sprigs pop up in that brown area, however, I'm kind of doubting it will be nice and full any time before fall.

Here are some pictures of the current state of the lawn after my first mow of the year:


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## briansemerick

looks like you have the same issue I have with my Midnight - winter salt killed the street edge.


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## Green

Gypsum next year along the edges! I do it every year except when hardly any road salt is used (which was one year). I did it this year (a lot of salt was used), and only got one small dead spot that is filling in slowly (normally I get none).


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## ken-n-nancy

For the original poster, that is definitely salt damage. With KBG, it will come back eventually, but so will all sorts of annual weeds, even some with a pre-emergent.



Green said:


> Gypsum next year along the edges! I do it every year except when hardly any road salt is used (which was one year). I did it this year (a lot of salt was used), and only got one small dead spot that is filling in slowly (normally I get none).


@Green, when do you do your gypsum application along the road edge? I have salt damage along the road edge this year (more than in past years) but have never made gypsum applications there in the past. How much do you use? Do you basically apply it at "bag rate" and only in the area near the road?


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

That is kind of what I figured though I've seen some rough looking dormant grass before.

@Green same questions as Ken and Nancy, when do you apply it? In the spring or fall? And what rate do you use?


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## Green

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> That is kind of what I figured though I've seen some rough looking dormant grass before.
> 
> @Green same questions as Ken and Nancy, when do you apply it? In the spring or fall? And what rate do you use?


Very late Winter or early in the Spring. Soon after the ground thaws out, first thing after collecting soil samples from the edges. Before the damage shows up, but after the salt is applied. Rate is supposed to be up to 30 lbs per thousand. I don't really measure it. One of the few things I just throw down or spread a healthy amount of, without going crazy. Heaviest on the worst edges, feathering the amount as I get further away. I usually broadcast it about 6 feet into the lawn from the road. It also depends how far you snowblow road snow onto your lawn over Winter. In bad Winters, I do more Spring gypsum along the driveway, and even the front walkway grass edges (even though I've never used ice melt products, some salt from the road makes it's way onto the driveway). Usually I throw some gypsum down by hand first, and then go back with a spreader and apply a little more to broadcast it a bit. It goes in the mailbox much bed, too. March 23rd this year.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@Green Thanks I'll have to give that a try next year. Do you think there's benefit at all to applying any now at this point?

Also do you guys think I should pull some plugs from an area up by the house and move them into the two wider brown sections (by the mailbox and the other side)? Not sure if it will spread all the way to the curb in those areas, the skinnier sections that are only about 6-8" from the curb in some spots I feel like will be fine on their own to fill back in.


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## Green

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> @Green Thanks I'll have to give that a try next year. Do you think there's benefit at all to applying any now at this point?
> 
> Also do you guys think I should pull some plugs from an area up by the house and move them into the two wider brown sections (by the mailbox and the other side)? Not sure if it will spread all the way to the curb in those areas, the skinnier sections that are only about 6-8" from the curb in some spots I feel like will be fine on their own to fill back in.


It's possible some salt is still there. I suppose you could, just to be safe. I don't know if you want to find a test for sodium, or if it exists outside of lab tests. If it were me, I'd be curious how much is left.

If you want to move plugs, it's probably worthwhile to do gypsum first and water it in, just in case the salt is still there. That way they will definitely not have high sodium to deal with. Worst case if you don't, you could lose the plugs, I guess. I would apply the gypsum first, personally.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks, I went ahead and applied some along the edge. Still haven't decided if I should put some plugs in that area or just wait for the KBG to spread/see how much more pops up after the gypsum.


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## Green

Do the plugs in the worst areas if you can deal with pulling cores from good areas, but wait for the gypsum to get watered into the soil first, just in case (several rains or irrigation cycles). Actually, I'd hand water it a few times to make sure it gets in there.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Hand watered it thoroughly after I applied it on Friday and watered again today 0.5" after the applications I made below.

Put down an application of propiconazole today and will continue to make applications to prevent what I believe was a bit of necrotic ring spot last year (never fully confirmed but I'm pretty sure … you can look back a page or two and be the judge). From what I've read suppression is possible with early spring treatments, before it starts colonizing the roots per usu:

https://extension.usu.edu/pests/ipm/notes_orn/list-turf/necrotic-ring-spot

Going to give it a shot and start my fungicide program early. Plan to add some Cleary 3336 to the rotation as it is listed in the article as being good for necrotic ring spot, I believe the Azoxy is as well.

Also went ahead and applied Chlorantraniliprole (Grub EX) today as well at bag rate to prevent the grub damage I saw last year.

Will be applying the 0.5lbs K/M via SOP soon as well probably in the next few days as temps are looking good for the next week (upper 60s low 70s). I did a test mix and the SOP I picked up seemed to dissolve well in hot water. I left it sit for about an hour and didn't notice any settling - stayed in solution. I also picked up some 120 mesh paint strainers to run it through just in case, but there were minimal impurities or debris in the mix.

I plan to also apply some AMS the same day I apply the SOP (possibly tomorrow as it looks like rain potentially the following day). My plan is to go light on the AMS (maybe 0.12lbs N/M) and then do a double pass over the tree area which seems more yellow (most likely nitrogen deficient still).

Here is a picture of the triple wide Fiskars stripes after mowing today for entertainment :bandit::


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## KoopHawk

Looks awesome!! :thumbup:


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## Wile

Your stripes look better with the manual reel than my JD is putting down right now. Also, I have NRS in my yard and I was reading that Propi and Azoxy together provide a decent amount of efficacy. Propi on it's own was not so good. TM also worked fairly well.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@KoopHawk Thanks! Aside from the salt damage it is definitely doing good. The tree spot is a little iffy still like I mentioned, going out with some N today (if the wind ever dies down) or tomorrow.

@Wile Thanks lol, I love that thing actually it's been great. As far as the NRS, thanks for the tip. I do plan to use the Azoxy as well but was planning to just alternate between them at regular intervals. Should I try doing a combination app? If so, would I just do a half-rate of each? Full rate of each? Never used them at the same time before.


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## Wile

I put them both down at the same time since there isn't well know control and with anything for residential. .38oz/M of azoxy and 2oz/M of propi seemed to work as that spot is not there now. I was thinking of following it up with another app two weeks later too. The other option is to use elemental sulfur to acidify the soil and possibly kill the pathogen. I'm planning on doing that anyways, but that's only if your pH can stand it. Mines a 7.3. I can't completely switch to slow release this year but probably will for the future.


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## dawk

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Reseeded today, put down about 3/4lb of seed between all the thin areas. Adjusted the sprinklers a little bit as well.
> 
> You can really see the mesotrione starting to work already in these warm temperatures, it's only day 3 since I applied it and a lot of the crabgrass that was growing in is white already, even some of the more mature looking plants (past the 3rd/4th tiller) are bleaching out.


Just reading your journal for the first time. I'm surprised so much crabgrass came up despite the mesotrione you put down at seed down time. I'm helping my dad do a spring reno and I was hoping the meso holds everything back better than that. I guess not necessarily!


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@dawk It did definitely help ... the previous year that whole edge was basically 70% crabgrass so I would say it reduced it by about 50-60%. The stuff that did grow turned white and was dead. It would have disappeared eventually as the grass crowded it out and I kept mowing, I just ended up hand-pulling as much as I could because I didn't like how it looked.

But you're right, it definitely won't prevent everything. Some things will still grow but just turn white and die off later or with repeated apps. Some other weeds will be relatively unaffected by mesotrione.

My lawn is now (relatively) weed free after some work. I think it did it's job for the most part. Weeds are always a battle (not as much in fall obviously) but everyone has weeds, don't let that put you off too much. Just be prepared to do some weed pulling and some additional apps of herbicide with a Spring reno.


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## dawk

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> I have the roller brackets angled down so that the roller is closer to where the wheels were originally in height, which puts the lowest hoc at about .9"(originally it can go down to 1" with the wheels). But if I were to angle the roller up to be in-line with the wheel brackets it would probably be somewhere between .5"-.7". Though I have heard with the Fiskars that the frequency of cut when you go that low leaves you with a "rifling" pattern in the grass. I haven't really seen it yet but I am cutting at about 1.5" with it currently which looks pretty nice.


I did the same mod but put the front roller right into the original axle holes with the inner bracket hack sawed off. It will go to a half inch or less for sure now but I either need to sharpen the blades or convert to electric because there's not enough momentum to cut that low down dense grass. It just jams.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

I thought about doing that but wanted to be able to put the wheels back on if needed (for example if grass is getting too long and roller is causing it to not get cut). That's why I went with the brackets bolted on instead. Though I have typically used my rotary mower in that situation, so doesn't really matter much. But yes the Fiskars has some limitations when trying to go lower than 1" (mainly rifling and gets hard to push). Make sure your blades are properly adjusted before trying to cut that low and get a running start to increase the blade RPM.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Applied 0.5lbs/M of SOP and 0.12lbs/M of N via AMS on Monday (double pass - 0.24lbs/M of N - on the tree spot). It is looking quite a bit better in the tree spot today. Took out the rotary mower as mentioned in my last post and brought the grass down as low as possible with the rotary before going over it again to clean up the tips with the reel mower. Neighbor hasn't mowed in a few days ... :lol:.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Mixed up a little bit of 'FAS' from the guide to throw on the test plot (aka my back yard :lol. Went with a half rate of 1oz FS and 0.8oz AS per 1k. I wasn't sure how much citric acid to add, one post says about 1:14 citric:FS which put me at about 0.14oz citric (0.8tsp roughly so I used 1 tsp or 0.16oz roughly). This seemed to leave the mixture a greenish yellow, definitely not orange. Though another post said to use 2:1 citric:FS. That would have put me at needing 4oz of citric to my 2oz total of FS ... my tap water is about a 7.6-7.8 pH, but 4oz of citric seems like a lot. From what I can tell the goal is to get the water pH around a 5 ... Not sure what I would end up with if I used that much citric acid ... If anyone has any info on this let me know. I'm assuming more citric acid isn't going to harm anything (and will help lower my pH in the long run if the 7.4 pH from the AgSource soil test was accurate /shrug).

Used the rotary mower to trim up the front lawn today since I was away for the weekend and didn't mow since Wednesday.

Also picked up some Tnex from a member of the FB group I'm in for a decent price. Decided to mix that in the tank with the FAS to use on the 'test plot'. Will see how it works out over the next week or two here. With the low dose of iron/ams and the pgr I'm hoping it won't yellow out at all.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Got the reel mower out today after cutting with the rotary yesterday, step 2 of my two part mowing plan after the long (relative) hiatus. Can't wait to try out the PGR on the front lawn, though I intend to wait 1-2 weeks to see the results in the back.

May go ahead and do a liquid iron application before then on the front, hopefully someone can answer my question about the 'proper' rate of citric acid to use - am I just shooting for 5 pH tank mix or should I be using 2:1 ratio or 14:1 ratio. Maybe this would be better asked on the FAS thread.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Well haven't heard back about the citric acid, so I just went with the same rate for the front (1 tsp CA for the 2 gals). Iron stayed greenish in the tank (didn't accidentally add pgr this time so I was actually able to make sure). I'm still wondering if I need to use more citric acid or if the 1 tsp is fine. Again the pH, based on the test strip, was below a 6.2 (as low as it will read) and I *think* the color looked good lol.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Put down 0.15lbs N/M via AMS on Monday (two weeks since last app at 0.12lbs N/M, 0.27lbs N total so far this year). I hope to get in at least one more application at 0.15-0.2lbs for around 0.5lbs N via AMS total for the Spring. I also plan to put down Sta-Green 16-0-10 that includes a little humic/kelp (the bag also contains gypsum, SOP, and sulfur coated urea to add to my sulfates) and will get another 0.5lbs via that.

This will bring my total to 1lb for Spring and I'll apply 3lbs of fast release in the fall again again this year (0.25lbs N/M via AMS weekly). Plan to use some iron every 3rd week as well at the 0.2-0.4oz Fe/M rate for a total of 3 apps in the fall.

For the potassium I already went down with 0.5lbs of K/M via SOP. I wanted to go a little higher than the AgSource recommendation (I'm thinking 1-1.5lbs). The 0.5lbs of N from the Sta-Green will give me 0.3lbs K/M, I'll probably do another application at the same rate at the end of summer as well for a total of a little over 1lb K/M for the year.

I wasn't planning to do anything for the 7.4 (potentially) pH from the AgSource soil test, but based on some of the reading about NRS I think I'm going to put down some elemental sulfur to combat that (rather than for the pH, though if it moves that would be a nice side effect). I plan to test next year for the pH again anyway, so hopefully both results are closer to 6.7 after the repeated AMS/SCU and the one time application of sulfur before summer (when it has the best chance of breaking down and affecting the pathogen).


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## Green

How's the mailbox area lawn repair going?


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Haven't done anything with it yet been way too busy with other projects to babysit it so it remains pretty brown, just going to avoid taking pictures of that area :thumbup:. It actually creeped in another inch or so, the spots that were close to the curb actually look like they might need to be edged soon.

Put down another application of propiconazole yesterday (roughly 3 weeks since my last app, meant to do two weeks but forgot last week). Picked up some more azoxy so that will go down on the next interval in two weeks.

Also put down the second half of my split app of prodiamine, little early maybe but should be fine, we're about 4 and a half weeks out from the initial application.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

About to have two weeks of nothing but hot humid weather so I put down the application of azoxy early today before the rain came through to water it in.

Going to be interesting to see how it does through the summer heat this year with less water.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Last Wednesday I put down a mixed app of propi/azoxy and applied 0.22lbs N/M on the tree area only to help it stay green. Otherwise just maintaining it at about 1.5" or so and watering 1" per week. So far the summer heat has barely fazed it . We did just get about an inch of rain yesterday so that helps as well.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Wanted to give an update on the current state of the salt damage along the curb, it is filling in nicely for the most part, some weeds obviously took advantage of the bare space but I plan to spray those out at some point. Definitely looks better than 2 months ago. I think it will be mostly full by the end of the fall nitrogen blitz when it starts getting regular feedings and then will be putting down a hefty dose of gypsum before winter.



And here are some beauty shots for everyone to enjoy:


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## Green

I've never done gypsum before Winter. If you do, you may need to follow up again in late Winter with another app, as it may go into the soil profile further by then. Not an expert on this; just recalling what I've heard and tried, and had success with.

Looks excellent.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks, yeah I think my plan is to do both - an app before winter in maybe Nov/Dec, probably right before the first snowfall, and an app around Feb/Mar when it first melts. With any luck there won't be any new damage come spring when it actually starts warming up. Only question is whether that timing is ideal or if I should wait longer for the second app or do the first app closer to the end of Oct so it has more time to get into the soil before snow comes.


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## Chris LI

I love the plaid doubles! :thumbsup:


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## Green

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Thanks, yeah I think my plan is to do both - an app before winter in maybe Nov/Dec, probably right before the first snowfall, and an app around Feb/Mar when it first melts. With any luck there won't be any new damage come spring when it actually starts warming up. Only question is whether that timing is ideal or if I should wait longer for the second app or do the first app closer to the end of Oct so it has more time to get into the soil before snow comes.


Good plan. I would just make sure the apps are at times when it has a month or so to get into the soil before Winter freezing, and on the other side, not so early the ground near the road is frozen still. I usually aim for March.


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## ReelWILawn

This is seriously impressive! Big fan of the plaid doubles. :thumbup:


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@Green Thanks for the input.

Also (for the record) they're actually triples with my little 18" reel :lol:.


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## Chris LI

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Also (for the record) they're actually triples with my little 18" reel :lol:.


Wow! Duly noted. Hmmmm, I'm not thinking on a big enough scale. I have to start thinking about triples for the future. :nod:


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Put down 0.22lbs N/M on the 19th via the Humic Coated Urea, decided to use urea for a little less burn potential in the hot weather we've been having. The warm weather is causing the tree spot to decay faster causing less nitrogen to be available in that area from all the microbial activity. A couple days later after feeding the tree area, it is looking great again. Consistent low doses of N definitely seem to be the key to that area of the lawn.

I've also have a small patch of grass that seems to be slightly different than the rest of the KBG. I noticed it is struggling in the heat and has been turning brown a bit. Upon further inspection it appears to be a thinner more fine-textured grass than the rest of the KBG, almost looked like some fine fescue or something initially. I added a few pictures for comparison and one of the individual plants I pulled out from that spot. It seemed pretty dark and matched the rest of my lawn pretty well until I noticed it turning brown in that spot which doesn't seem to fit poa triv/annua which I would think would be a lot lighter in color but the high temps don't seem to be affecting the rest of the lawn which makes me think triv or something or I have a fungus issue (though fungus doesn't explain the fine texture which seems more like a different kind of poa all together).


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## Green

That might he a localized dry spot (these can be caused by fungal disease in some cases, but usually are not).
https://ag.umass.edu/turf/fact-sheets/fairy-ring-localized-dry-spot


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@Green Thanks, part of me still feels like it's a different type of grass it seems more thin for some reason but maybe that's because it's drying out? I'll give it some extra water in that spot and see what it looks like when it recovers.


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## Green

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> @Green Thanks, part of me still feels like it's a different type of grass it seems more thin for some reason but maybe that's because it's drying out? I'll give it some extra water in that spot and see what it looks like when it recovers.


Most likely what you said above...it looks different due to drying out.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thunderstorms tonight and cooler weather for the next 4/5 days forecasted. Decided to put down a half rate of the FAS (1oz/M of FS). Should hopefully do well with about 6 hours on the leaf before the rain hits.

Twilight picture from after mowing last night:


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## Chris LI

Man, that looks great! :nod:

Have you found a Packers stencil yet? You know, football season is around the corner and you don't want to disappoint, right? :lol:


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@Chris LI Not yet lol :lol:. May have to make my own :thumbup:.


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## Wiley

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Thunderstorms tonight and cooler weather for the next 4/5 days forecasted. Decided to put down a half rate of the FAS (1oz/M of FS). Should hopefully do well with about 6 hours on the leaf before the rain hits.
> 
> Twilight picture from after mowing last night:


 For Pete's sake!! That's looking really clean.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks Wiley.

Did a preventative application of propiconazole again yesterday since it has been hot and humid (bad combo), may be my last app, but I might end up doing one more app of azoxy before it starts cooling off heading into fall, we will see. Looks like next week is supposed to be a bit cooler.

I plan to start working on my mother/brothers lawns soon as well (doing an overseed at my brothers and reseeding an area of bentgrass at my moms place, which I killed off over the last few weeks). Might rent an aerator to do their lawns which are pretty compacted and just hit my front lawn as well before my fall pre-emergent goes down. I mainly want to remove a little bit of material from the high area in my yard so I would be picking up the cores and the low areas can always get material added back later. Still debating if I want to try to add any material this year or just wait until spring (I have quite a bit going on with other projects around the house and the other two lawns so I may need to wait to do a full leveling project). May end up just getting a small load of top soil and doing a topdress on the low areas though, again we will see.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Applied 0.21 lbs N/M via AMS on Monday, plan to start spraying the PGR within the next few weeks as we move into fall weather. Still working on figuring out the GDD was thinking about 250 to start on 1-1.5" KBG, may be able to go to like 300 from what I've read but who knows.


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## Wile

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Thunderstorms tonight and cooler weather for the next 4/5 days forecasted. Decided to put down a half rate of the FAS (1oz/M of FS). Should hopefully do well with about 6 hours on the leaf before the rain hits.
> 
> Twilight picture from after mowing last night:


Outstanding!


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## lbb091919

This is the table I use. It doesn't take HOC into consideration though.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@lbb091919 I believe 0.25oz/M is the rate for fairways (if I remember correctly) for a HOC of about 0.3"-0.5" ish. So I was planning to go a bit heavier than that to start, probably 0.3oz/M-0.35oz/M so maybe I should wait til about 280-290 GDD before reapplying based on this chart? I'm going to give it a shot soon and just see how it works, if I start noticing it growing rapidly before my next application, I'll adjust to a bit lower GDD for re-application.


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## lbb091919

Sounds like a plan. I was using the 0.25oz/M rate while cutting at 0.875" and liked it. I probably could've bumped it up to 0.3oz and been fine too.


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## ReelWILawn

I second the .25 fl oz rate. I've been using the .25 fl oz/M of T-Nex rate all season, except for the first app of the year where I did .125 Based on the weather, I've been hitting my GDD target of 280 (0c base) / 504 (32 F base) every 10-14 days. I like the surpression it's been given but does not totally shut it down - something I was concerned with during the summer. I may bump it up to .30 fl oz/M this fall but we will see.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks for the input, I was just basing it off the label and HOC of 1-1.5", I think the 0.30oz/M rate is going to be the ticket but we will see how that interacts with the nitrogen blitz, hoping to see some good lateral growth still.

Dethatched the lawn today with the cooler weather we've been having just to thin it out a bit and get some airflow in the canopy. Actually pulled out a decent amount of material and it helped stand everything up and even out the cut, since there was a decent amount of long lateral blades that the reel was just pushing over rather than cutting.


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## Chris LI

Looks great! Nice to see it in its daytime glory! :thumbsup:


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

It's not thanking me for dethatching it at the moment but as Daniel Hibbert says, "two weeks of pain for two months of gain" … or something like that.

Decided to do an application of the sta-green 16-0-11 natural base fertilizer with humic and sea k to add another half pound of potassium (5lbs product/M). This gives me 0.8lbs of nitrogen, though mostly slow release. Figure it is best to do that now and then starting mid September I can go back to the AMS and see how that works out with the PGR.


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## Green

Interesting fert. Can you get a shot of the bag analysis? Can't find the details online, and am interested in it.


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## ReelWILawn

What is your review on the sun joe? I've been thinking about purchasing one to thin the lawn out in some spots as I prepare for top dressing.


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## gatorguy146

ReelWILawn said:


> What is your review on the sun joe? I've been thinking about purchasing one to thin the lawn out in some spots as I prepare for top dressing.


I bought one for my reno and it far exceeded my expectations. Only issue I had is that I did all of the work in 95 degree heat, and that did cause the Sun Joe to overheat. I guess there is a temperature sensor in there somewhere, which shuts the machine off and it takes maybe 10 or 15 minutes to cool off before you can use it again. Not a big deal and might not even happen if you do the work in cooler weather. Anyway, I'm very with the machine. Interested to hear the OP's thoughts.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@Green sorry it is 16-0-10, not 16-0-11, but it is good stuff (slightly large on the prill size which is the only real drawback). I like that it had some extras like humic and sea kelp and the fact that it uses SOP as a potassium source (no MOP). I put the analysis and picture of the bag below so you can check out the ingredients.

EDIT: It was also only about 25$ at Lowes for a 25lb bag as well (compared to something like The Andersons 16-0-8 I was using previously which is about $38 for 18lbs).

@ReelWILawn the sun joe dethatcher/scarifier is great, never bogs down and does an awesome job. I mainly use the scarifier attachment as a verticutter and set the height just above the soil surface. But works just as good for the intended purpose of you set it lower. They had them on sale for like 50$ a few weeks ago, I thought about picking up a second one for that price lol.


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## Green

Thanks! Is that only from Lowes? I think that's their exclusive brand, right?


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@Green that is correct.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Aerated the lawn on Friday to help remove some material from that 'high' area, ended up doing a single pass over the entire lawn and then going back over the high area 2x. We got two days of nothing but rain afterwards and I put down my fall prodiamine application (0.185oz/M) to let the rain water it in (ended up getting about 0.4" of gentle rainfall, which was almost perfect).

Lawn looks like it is recovering nicely from the aeration/dethatching after the rain and fertilizer application from last week.







Last week:

This week:


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Put down the first application of PGR yesterday, went with the 0.3oz/M rate. Had some issues with mixing it with ammonium sulfate, didn't seem to want to stay in suspension very well, would have needed constant agitation to spray it evenly so I ended up just spraying it by itself in plain water which it seemed to mix in much better.

Put down FAS this morning but used 0.1 lbs N/M of AMS instead of the 1.7oz AMS/M the recipe calls for (since I needed my nitrogen app anyway). Went with a half rate of N due to having just put down that 16-0-8 recently. Will go back to the regular 0.2-0.25lb N/M rate next week.

Overall it seems pretty happy with life at the moment, here's a few pics from last night (plus one of the salt damage, which is still filling in slowly) and a few from today:


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## Green

I'm guessing it has worked well, but how have the higher-N FAS apps gone? Does it still produce the results you'd expect from a 1:1 ratio of N to Iron?


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

I'll you know how it works out in a day or two since it usually takes a couple days for the iron to really kick in from what I've seen.

I'm assuming it will work the same as far as the iron effects go, at least I wouldn't expect anything to change, I'm simply giving it more N with the same amount of iron.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@Green Had some surprise rain today so I didn't get to mow and clean it up nice but it seems like it darkened up today from the rain and FAS, the neighbors little 3' strip between my yard and their driveway seems a lot lighter in comparison today.


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## Ben4Birdies

Beautiful color you got going on! I'm hoping my reno area of bluebank, mazama, and bewitched can get just as dark!

What height of cut is your favorite so far?


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## Green

That's good that it worked. Looks nice, too.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

The FAS is definitely working well, laid down some pretty sweet stripes over the weekend. Gotta calculate out my GDD still for the last few days. Will be putting down my next dose of N tomorrow.







And then some from a few days later/today (last pic):


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

It's been about a week since my last spoon feeding, decided to spray down some HCU from The Andersons @ 0.25lbs N/M. Also, for those keeping track, I'm currently sitting at 119 GDD since I applied the Tnex (aiming for 280 as my reapplication target).


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

After two straight days of rain I'm seeing some leaf spot/melting out disease, put down an application of azoxy/propi at the curative rate. Will be postponing my nitrogen app this week and only applying the PGR as I'm at my target GDD today. Overall the lawn is looking nice, though a bit shaggy because I didn't mow for 5 days as I was out of town for the weekend.


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## ReelWILawn

absolutely outstanding!!! Enjoy the next 4-6 weeks, should only get better.

speaking of rain, how much did you end up getting (not sure what part of WI you are in)? We got a total of 7.74"! It never stopped raining for close to 36 hours.


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## Wile

It does look amazing. Even cooler that it's a manual reel. What was your iron rate?


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@ReelWILawn I'm in Green Bay, we got about 2-2.5" I believe over the course of the 2 days it rained. 7+ inches is crazy lol.

@Wile Thanks it does make pretty nice stripes with the rollers on it. For the iron I went with 0.2oz/M (1oz FS/M). Last time I went with the full 0.4oz/M rate (2oz FS/M) it started turning black. It seems to respond to the lower rate though, so I'm good with it.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Applied 0.22lbs N/M on Sunday via HCU.


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## ReelWILawn

that 44-0-0 HCU is pretty good stuff. I used that the last two years and saw pretty good results with it.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

I used it last year for my nitrogen blitz, this year I've mostly been using AMS but wanted to get some humic acid down. Did a cleanup cut with the rotary to even everything out and suck up some leaves.









Caught these guys on my cameras checking out the lawn as well the other day :lol: ... I'd touch it too :thumbup::


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## Ben4Birdies

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Caught these guys on my cameras checking out the lawn as well the other day :lol: ... I'd touch it too :thumbup::


Your stripes are looking stunning!

Is that a landscaping crew's truck that they were riding in? I can't tell in your photo. Regardless, it's so cool to see people taking notice of your hard work! 😄👍


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## michigreender

This journal is awesome. Well done. A few posts ago you mentioned seeing the SunJoe dethatcher on sale for $50?? Where did you see that (and is it still available for that?)


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## garlicrainbow

> Caught these guys on my cameras checking out the lawn as well the other day :lol: ... I'd touch it too 👍:


That's got to be a great feeling! Vindication of all your hard work


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@michigreender I appreciate it thanks! The sun joe was on Walmarts website around prime day but not anymore, unfortunately. I should have gotten one as a spare at those prices lol.

@garlicrainbow definitely!


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Put down an application of FAS a few days ago around the 26th, lawn is looking nice and dark now. It is starting to get dark out earlier and earlier unfortunately, so mowing after work it’s almost dark out by the time I finish unless I do it on my lunch break.


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## Green

I like those sprinklers. Be aware they will eventually break if your pressure is too high. But I also like the impacts for getting a lot of volume out.



CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Put down an application of FAS a few days ago around the 26th, lawn is looking nice and dark now. It is starting to get dark out earlier and earlier unfortunately, so mowing after work it’s almost dark out by the time I finish unless I do it on my lunch break.


Every time I've mowed the last couple of weeks, it has not only been dark, but damp or wet as well. Trying to reorganize my schedule.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Put down a preventative app of azoxy yesterday and got my application of PGR down today, went with 0.33oz/M this time just to get a bit more regulation as I felt like it was still growing a bit more than I’d like, may have hit some rebound as well at the end so I think I’m going to go down to 280 GDD this time also. Bit higher rate and a shorter interval should be the ticket, I’ll keep playing with both until I get the apps just right.

Looking pretty good so far. Going to put down my Gypsum application soon-ish (next 2-3 weeks) by the road as well so it can soak into the soil before the weather gets too cold, probably aim for the end of October. Appreciate the help on that, hopefully no damage next spring.

Will be putting down my weekly nitrogen application tomorrow as well, didn’t put it down today because the ammonium sulfate doesn’t seem to mix nice with the Tnex …


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## garlicrainbow

CaffeinatedLawnCare said:


> Looking pretty good so far. Going to put down my Gypsum application soon-ish (next 2-3 weeks) by the road as well so it can soak into the soil before the weather gets too cold, probably aim for the end of October. Appreciate the help on that, hopefully no damage next spring.
> 
> Will be putting down my weekly nitrogen application tomorrow as well, didn’t put it down today because the ammonium sulfate doesn’t seem to mix nice with the Tnex …


Looks good. I like your little Harry Potter.


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## rhart

Looks absolutely spectacular! Congrats on the LOTM nomination very well deserved!


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@garlicrainbow thanks and we found him a few weeks ago on sale, apparently they make others as well.

@rhart I saw that, that is pretty awesome I appreciate it!


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks again to everyone who voted for my lawn for LOTM! Makes all the hard work worth it !

Put down another 0.21lbs N/M on Monday, decided that my last PGR app on Oct 3. would be the final one of the year, it should be coming out of regulation right around the second to last week of the month and it should be naturally shutting down around then anyway. Weather has started cooling off over the last week and a few of the forecasts for next week are in the 40s 🥶. Safe to say that I will be mostly just doing cleanup of leaves from here on out. I plan to keep putting down weekly nitrogen applications until the last week of October. I also decided to put down my gypsum application by the road today since I want to make sure it is watered in decently before I put the sprinkler away for the year.

Unfortunately I am having the house re-shingled so I haven't been able to mow for the last 3 days due to the possibility of nails in the lawn (I've been making sure they don't set their tools/materials on the lawn or intentionally drop any scraps on it lol). Has been a stressful few days for sure, but our shingles were 15+ years old and were at the end of their life unfortunately (the garage had a leak and it was probably only a matter of time before the house started leaking too). That's also why I decided to wait on my lawn leveling project for this year and put it off until next spring. I plan to bring in a couple yards of sand next year and get this thing flattened out some, though I may need to do some topsoil in some areas that are a little bit more uneven than I think sand would fix without multiple applications. So I might end up doing a light topsoil leveling in spring for those areas, let it recover, and then bring in the sand in the fall.

Overall I'm super happy with the way it turned out, the blend of KBG has really darkened up quite a bit this year (probably the Bewitched starting to get darker plus the other two types being a bit more mature, along with the iron I've been giving it). Can't wait to see where we can take it next year. I'll post a few more pictures after the new roof is on and I clean everything up, also I'll get a side by side picture of the curb damage to show just how far the KBG spread from Spring to Fall in a single year.


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## gatorguy146

Congratulations! Your lawn looks absolutely beautiful.


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## nATLzoysiaguy

Your lawn looks absolutely amazing, and the double stripes make it pop! It's like a professional sports field


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## bf7

Killer stripes man, insanely dark!!

Congrats! @Wile must be kicking himself for nominating you


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## Wile

@bf7 truth! haha. My yard looks good, but no where near as good as Caf's. He earned that LOTM!


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## Butter

Congrats on LOTM! I know the stresses of having the house shingled.


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## Chris LI

Congrats on LOTM! I always enjoy your journal and the photos. I'm still waiting for you to turn it in to a mini Lambeau Field. You know, it's already well into the football season. 🤣😏🤣🤭🤣


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## santhony1231

Congrats @CaffeinatedLawnCare — this lawn always looks ridiculous.


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## ReelWILawn

LOTM!!! Congratulations! Well deserved.


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## Victor Von Lawn

nicely documented lawn renovation. Congrats.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

Thanks everyone I appreciate it! It’s been quite a bit of work, so it’s nice to have it pay off! So on that note let’s talk about the bad area of the yard 😅.

Here is the side by side of the salt damage area by the curb from the spring to now. I’ve put down the gypsum and watered it a few times now. The temps are starting to get down to the 30s (F) at night pretty consistently and the grass is slowing down. I have been giving it the same feedings as the main lawn, nothing different (aside from adding the gypsum) and just letting it fill in on its own. Overall I’m pretty happy with it. Even though seeding may have been a bit more quick to see results, I didn’t have to waste any additional water on seeding. Hopefully this winter there isn’t much damage and it will finish filling in the few bigger spots.


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## Victor Von Lawn

I don't understand how your lawn edge was so damaged, but your neighbor went untouched?????


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## Chris LI

Victor Von Lawn said:


> I don't understand how your lawn edge was so damaged, but your neighbor went untouched?????


Good observation. I'm also curious as to what the answer might be. Taking a stab at it, I would guess the neighbor has TTTF or another turfgrass with more salt tolerance than kbg.


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## Green

Your Lowes 16-0-10 also has a bit of gypsum.

The gypsum is going to be most important every Winter, at the end once the ground thaws out. You've loaded the soil up so much with it now, that I don't think it'll take more than one app each year in the future. It should prevent future damage. You should be good.

I had a small spot that got burned and killed last Winter. (I also had the plow dig up a whole section of grass, but that's another story.) Probably a small pile of salt that did it. I removed several small piles by hand over the Winter, but obviously couldn't get all of it before it dissolved. A gypsum application took care of it, and it filled in over time. The plow damage was a different story.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare

@Victor Von Lawn Along with @Chris LI's comment about the cultivars, I would imagine part of the issue is that I live pretty much on the corner near an intersection where the plow likes to turn around/back up and get a running head start splashing more salt onto my yard than the rest of the street since he is moving fast when he impacts the initial pile (causing the splashing) and then just pushes it along the rest of the way (less/no splashing into neighbors yards). Just one thought I had after watching it happen and seeing a 2-3 foot wide trail of salty slush debris fly from the street through my lawn, also if you look at the damage it kind of matches up ... it is worse near the mailbox (close to where the plow makes impact) and is scattered/tapers off a bit as he moves along the road heading away (since he is just pushing it along at that point and making less of a splashing effect). They also normally keep a foot or two away from the curb when plowing and there was one time the plow went right up to the curb by my house when he started his pass (pushing everything up into the yard again) but then they adjusted going forward since he realized he was too close. Just my theory anyway (but I'm sure the cultivars make a difference as well).


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