# Considering nuking part of my backyard.



## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Hey everybody!

I'm on a roll asking for everyone's guidance lately, so let's continue that momentum with some opinions..

I have a slope in my backyard. Before I aerated my lawn last fall, the bottom of this hill would not grow. Not weeds, not bermuda, nothing. Post-aeration I got tons of grass, but I got even more weeds due to the, what I'm assuming, weeds seeds being pulled up. Since then I have constantly battled crabgrass in an attempt to get the Bermuda to crowd out the weeds. It seems like I am losing this battle day in and day out.

In May I applied a heavy hand (.06 ounces/1k on accident) of Prodiamine and watered it in nicely (half an inch). As for the existing crabgrass, I applied Quinclorac and once they were dead, I hand pulled them up. Every other day I am pulling up more and more crabgrass. I don't mind being in the lawn, actually I love it, however I am spending more time pulling up this crabgrass than any other aspect of lawn management.

For the past few months my wife and I have been deciding on what we want to do at the bottom of the slope as it is more of an eye sore when looking out from our patio. We decided on Crape Myrtles to gain more privacy because if you are standing on our patio, you can see our neighbors living room, and every night I wave at them when they are eating dinner at the table.. We will also be laying down river rock 4 feet out from the fence.

I am thinking about killing the grass from about 4 feet out because I just don't know what to do at this point. It won't completely eliminate my crabgrass issue as it extends farther than 4ft, but it will reduce my problem. I hate killing the grass, even though we have plans moving forward, but I feel like the crabgrass wins, I lose, and I'm not happy with losing.. So I'm asking you guys, am I doing something wrong from the pictures? Is there another method of attack I can utilize? Thanks in advance as always.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Tex86 said:


> In May I applied a heavy hand (.06 ounces/1k on accident) of Prodiamine and watered it in nicely (half an inch)...


So specifically, which Prodiamine product did you use? If you used the popular Prodiamine 65WDG (which is 65% active ingredient), 0.06oz per thousand would only be like ~7% of the max annual rate for a Bermuda lawn... not enough.

​


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Yeah, it was the Prodiamine 65 WDG.

Since its a low concentration of the annual recommendation, would it be safe to say to administer another application?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Yeah, I would probably apply another 0.35oz per k now. Then apply the other half of the annual max (0.41oz per k) in September - or whenever fall pre-e is appropriate for Texas.


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

:thumbup: Will do. Thanks for pointing that out Ware.


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

+1 Ware.

I wouldn't nuke the area, in lawn care you must play the long game. Keep hitting the area with what works and let the Pre-E claim that section back next year. You're doing great!


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Does that area get full sun? If so, how much fertilizer have you applied to that area? Do you have irrigation?


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Redtenchu said:


> +1 Ware.
> 
> I wouldn't nuke the area, in lawn care you must play the long game. Keep hitting the area with what works and let the Pre-E claim that section back next year. You're doing great!


Thank you. Is my back supposed to hurt this bad at age 31? ;-)


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> Does that area get full sun? If so, how much fertilizer have you applied to that area? Do you have irrigation?


Yes, full sun all day:l fence doesn't block any.
No irrigation but I water and I monitor to see of its running down the hill. 1 inch every week, but if it gets 100 or above I do 1.5 split between the week.

I put .6 lbs of a 19-5-10 every month as it was recommended on this board. Before that its straight Milorganite.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I would recommend on doubling the amount of 19-5-10 you are applying to that area and be sure to give it a little extra water. I warn you that the bermuda WILL take off and start filling in that area post haste, so you may need to up your mowing in that area too. Keep attacking the weeds as you have been and see how the area looks by the end of the year. I'm wiling to bet that it will be one of the thickest parts of the lawn.

I'm assuming by ".6 lbs of 19-5-10 every month" you meant to say that you are applying 3 lbs of fertilizer every month which equates to .6 lbs of Nitrogen every month?

What I'm recommending is for you to basically push the bermuda to choke out all the weeds and to thicken up too. The amount of fertilizer you are applying is basically a maintenance amount which is fine if you already have a thick stand of turf but if you need filling in then around 1 lb of Nitrogen a month will let that happen.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Tex86 said:


> ...I put .6 lbs of a 19-5-10 every month as it was recommended on this board. Before that its straight Milorganite.


0.6 pounds per thousand?

Someone check my math, but 0.6 pounds of 19-x-x would only be like 0.11 pounds of N per k.

ETA: MQ beat me to it. :lol:


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> I would recommend on doubling the amount of 19-5-10 you are applying to that area and be sure to give it a little extra water. I warn you that the bermuda WILL take off and start filling in that area post haste, so you may need to up your mowing in that area too. Keep attacking the weeds as you have been and see how the area looks by the end of the year. I'm wiling to bet that it will be one of the thickest parts of the lawn.
> 
> I'm assuming by ".6 lbs of 19-5-10 every month" you meant to say that you are applying 3 lbs of fertilizer every month which equates to .6 lbs of Nitrogen every month?
> 
> What I'm recommending is for you to basically push the bermuda to choke out all the weeds and to thicken up too. The amount of fertilizer you are applying is basically a maintenance amount which is fine if you already have a thick stand of turf but if you need filling in then around 1 lb of Nitrogen a month will let that happen.


This is why I love this forum. Correct, 3lbs every month, equaling. 6lbs of N.

I have no qualms mowing every other day if I have too. Should I increase water to 2 inches weekly?

Also, going off the pictures, should I bag the clippings even though there are no seed heads?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

You may NOT have to increase the water to 2 inches weekly, just keep an eye on it and play it by ear. What HOC are you mowing at right now? You shouldn't have to bag unless you want to.


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Got it.

Current HOC is 1.75. Grass is a bit stressed as I used to cut it at 2.5", then chopped it down. Currently it's at 2" but will be mowing tomorrow.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

You may have to mow 2-3 times a week at that HOC.


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> You may have to mow 2-3 times a week at that HOC.


Be one with your yard, right?

No worries. My schedule is becoming less hectic so that I can do.


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## csbutler (Jun 15, 2017)

I've been battling crab grass in my backyard since the start of spring. I'm turning the corner and seeing less and less. Don't give up! Fight the fight! :thumbup:


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

csbutler said:


> I've been battling crab grass in my backyard since the start of spring. I'm turning the corner and seeing less and less. Don't give up! Fight the fight! :thumbup:


Thanks buddy!


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

You could put the annual max, or at least the single application max of prodiamine down now and then switch to dithiopyr or pendamethalin or another pre-emergent for your winter annuals.

I was plannning to bring this up on the Bermuda Triangle thread. I plan to post a more through version of this response next week when I have refined my thoughts a little more.

Pendamethlin may not be the ideal pre em when trying to establish a turf. It's is dinitroaniline (DNA) herbicide and those can cause root clubbing.

If you are trying to fill in an area now by pushing your existing Bermuda to spread, I would consider dithiopyr and then a lot of fast release nitrogen. One pound of N every 7-10 days would be plenty if you are trying to push growth. It would be 5.26lb of your 19-5-10, per thousand square feet.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> You could put the annual max, or at least the single application max of prodiamine down now and then switch to dithiopyr or pendamethalin or another pre-emergent for your winter annuals...


Not necessary with Prodiamine... half the annual max for Bermuda yields 6 months of control...


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

What part of Texas are you in? I agree with the idea of Crape Myrtles for privacy. You'll have a good view of the neighbors in the winter, though, unless you go with something like live oaks that are green year round. Either way, with oaks or myrtles, you won't have grass growing under them a year or two later, so your grass/weed issue will be solved. 

For the rest, just stick with Prodiamine and Nitrogen. Crabgrass is one of the easiest weeds to get rid of, because the Pre-E works so well on it. I haven't had any in two years. Come fall, you won't have any more. Keep up the good work.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Ware said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> > You could put the annual max, or at least the single application max of prodiamine down now and then switch to dithiopyr or pendamethalin or another pre-emergent for your winter annuals...
> ...


Thanks! Learned something new!

I forgot to add earlier - dithiopyr also has a post emergent impact on very young crabgrass.


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Ware said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> > You could put the annual max, or at least the single application max of prodiamine down now and then switch to dithiopyr or pendamethalin or another pre-emergent for your winter annuals...
> ...


Although I'm sure I can find this on the label, I printed this out for quick reference. Tomorrow I'll mow and apply .35oz/1k of the Prodiamine. I'm pumped!


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

dfw_pilot said:


> What part of Texas are you in? I agree with the idea of Crape Myrtles for privacy. You'll have a good view of the neighbors in the winter, though, unless you go with something like live oaks that are green year round. Either way, with oaks or myrtles, you won't have grass growing under them a year or two later, so your grass/weed issue will be solved.
> 
> For the rest, just stick with Prodiamine and Nitrogen. Crabgrass is one of the easiest weeds to get rid of, because the Pre-E works so well on it. I haven't had any in two years. Come fall, you won't have any more. Keep up the good work.


Thanks for the support dfw. I'm in San Antonio.

We were considering Live Oaks, however, the wife wanted Crape Myrtles, so you know how that goes!

Soon I'm going to read up on the appropriate sprayer setup to make sure I am effective. I have a 1 gallon from Home Depot for now, but that will change soon.


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Also, I have about 4,500 dq/ft of 34-0-4 stored. Would this be more effective for that particular area? Since high nitrogen and pre-e is key in this, I'm thinking it's the best route rather than the 19-5-10?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> Pendamethlin may not be the ideal pre em when trying to establish a turf. It's is dinitroaniline (DNA) herbicide and those can cause root clubbing.
> 
> If you are trying to fill in an area now by pushing your existing Bermuda to spread, I would consider dithiopyr and then a lot of fast release nitrogen. One pound of N every 7-10 days would be plenty if you are trying to push growth. It would be 5.26lb of your 19-5-10, per thousand square feet.


I would not recommend putting down large amounts of any PreM as stated above it can cause root clubbing and actually prevent the bermuda from filling in as the stolons will just lay on top of the soil and not set any roots.

Adding 5 lbs of 19-5-10 per K every 7-10 is just a waste of fertilizer as most of it will be lost to the air through volatilization or will just be washed away from a heavy rain. As long as you are adding between 1-1.5 lbs of Nitrogen with some slow release in it every month, your bermuda will take off and start spreading like crazy.


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> I would not recommend putting down large amounts of any PreM as stated above it can cause root clubbing and actually prevent the bermuda from filling in as the stolons will just lay on top of the soil and not set any roots.
> 
> Adding 5 lbs of 19-5-10 per K every 7-10 is just a waste of fertilizer as most of it will be lost to the air through volatilization or will just be washed away from a heavy rain. As long as you are adding between 1-1.5 lbs of Nitrogen with some slow release in it every month, your bermuda will take off and start spreading like crazy.


+1, Too much of either can be worse than not enough of either. Balance is key.


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> > Pendamethlin may not be the ideal pre em when trying to establish a turf. It's is dinitroaniline (DNA) herbicide and those can cause root clubbing.
> ...


I'll probably my go between 1.0-1.2lbs. I wont go over doubled amount of 19-5-10.

I'm going to have go pick some more up on Wednesday to make sure I'm ready.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> > Pendamethlin may not be the ideal pre em when trying to establish a turf. It's is dinitroaniline (DNA) herbicide and those can cause root clubbing.
> ...


In hindsight, recommending max dose of pendemethalin wasn't the right suggestion. With that being said, I didn't think dithiopyr would cause root clubbing, but upon further research, it seems it can cause root clubbing as well. Wouldn't the post-emergent impact dithiopyr has on crabgrass be of benefit in this situation?

Regarding the nitrogen quantity, I turned to a document I saw from Univ of TN https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/W160-D.pdf for establishment of sprigs. It indicates 1 pound of Nitrogen a week, and if it's watered in, I wouldn't think volatilization would be an issue. I'm no expert, so I'm happy to learn the right way to do it.


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