# Complete lawn rookie needs helping identifying grass type



## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

Hey there,

My name's Adam Lantelme, I live in Denver and am just stepping into the lawn beautification game. And by that I mean I'm on a journey to getting a great looking lawn.

This may be long, but the most important question I have is what kind of grass do I have? I believe I have Kentucky Bluegrass but am not entirely sure.

For reference -- I'm going to include a YouTube link and some screenshots that will detail what I'm about to ask, but I'll also leave this in text format too.





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I purchased my home (first home) in Dec 2016 which had sod freshly laid in November.

Last summer I didn't do much with it since the lawn looked great. I watered generously every day.

As you'll see in the video, this year it's starting to bite the dust. In March all the grass next to the sidewalk died. Even though it snows I don't get plows in my neighborhood so I doubt it's got anything to do with road salt.

In April and May I put turf builder down on it (even spilled some which you'll see in the video) took thatch out by hand as best I could several times, had it aerated, power raked, fertilized and I mow it every 10 days without taking much off the top. I've been following a lot of Lawn Care Nuts advice if anyone knows about him.

Since then I've watered the entire lawn for about 8 minutes (I have a full coverage inground sprinkler system) every single day since May 20.

I want to reseed the dead and dying areas and then get a protocol going to keep it nice.

So, if anyone can tell me what kind of grass I have, that'd be awesome. If you have other feedback about the lawn I'm open to hearing it, but I just need to attack my biggest problem today.

*** I said fungicide - I meant fungus.


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## Schaef (May 28, 2018)

Looks like a regular cool season mix


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Tough to tell what type of grass. I am guessing its KBG and PRG mix. If that is the case, you could overseed it with PRG in the fall.

Or, have you fertilized? Put down some milo and give some good water. If it is KBG is should fill in.

I would also adjust your watering schedule. Watering everyday isn't the best unless it is brand new. You should switch to a good soak (1 inch total ideally, either from your sprinklers or mother nature. You can measure with a rain gauge or some tuna cans) once a week. This will cause your roots to grow deeper in search of water. Every day babies it and its much more likely to be less resilient.

You also might want to check the soil by the road/sidewalk. In Denver I am assuming you get some snow/road salt dumped there that has lead to the dying grass. Might be a good idea to figure out if there is an issue and amend before you try to plant anything there.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Welcome to TLF. Looks like a nomix. I echo most of the previous comments. Have you given the Cool season guide a read?


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

gm560 said:


> Tough to tell what type of grass. I am guessing its KBG and PRG mix. If that is the case, you could overseed it with PRG in the fall.
> 
> Or, have you fertilized? Put down some milo and give some good water. If it is KBG is should fill in.
> 
> ...


Hey, thanks so much for the reply.

Yeah, I did fertilize, back in April. Not sure what kind was used and not sure that it matters.

I've heard about that kind of a watering schedule so I think I'll adjust over to that. It's been abnormally hot here (103 yesterday) so would that still be a good idea on once a week?

Regarding the grass against the sidewalk, I'm not sure that's the issue for me. We don't get salt/plows where I live, and last summer the grass was fine there. Plus, most people on my street don't have the issue.

Since it's a bit hard to tell if it's PRG or KBG, would do a mixture and seeding in the fall be a worthwhile pursuit?


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

g-man said:


> Welcome to TLF. Looks like a nomix. I echo most of the previous comments. Have you given the Cool season guide a read?


Thank you.

I'll check that guide out right away.

And a quick Google search seems to indicate nomix is mix of PRG KBG and some other kinds? I think that's what I was able to tell nomix = Northern mix?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Yes, nomix, northern mix, are terms that means a lawn of perrenial ryegrass, Kentucky blue grass and tall fescue.


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

Great, thanks!

I'll get some seed and come up with a protocol for fall.


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## NoslracNevok (Jun 12, 2018)

I had dead/bad areas along my sidewalk as well. If your going to reno, check to see if concrete went below the forms when the sidewalk was poured.


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## chrisben (Sep 11, 2017)

A screwdriver test can tell that too, somewhat. @G-man has a thread around here about dealing with sub-teranian surprises the builder left behind, but I can't find it at present...


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

adamlantelme said:


> gm560 said:
> 
> 
> > Tough to tell what type of grass. I am guessing its KBG and PRG mix. If that is the case, you could overseed it with PRG in the fall.
> ...


I think you could cut that weekly 1 inch into biweekly half inch. If the lawn looks stressed you could give it another drink.

Yea I think overseeding in the fall would be worthwhile. The one thing I would say is do your best to figure out why you have dead spots before throwing more seed at it. If there is something like buried concrete as other members have mentioned or large rocks under the soil and you don't fix the underlying problem, whatever you plant there will probably die, too. The aforementioned screw driver test is a good idea.


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

Thanks, I'll be testing out 1" tomorrow.

Btw, what doe reno mean?

I've searched the glossaries and a bunch of threads but can't find the definition.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Reno = renovate = kill your grass and start over from bare dirt and seeds. I don't recommend you doing that.


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

Gotcha.

And no, I don't think I need to at all. Just some touch up.


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

I performed the screwdriver test and there doesn't seem to be anything significant under the dirt. I did run across stones quite frequently, but if I moved the screwdriver a teeny bit it passed right through.

What I'm noticing is these dead spots are expanding.

The grass next to the sidewalk sloughs right off and the dirt underneath is turning to dust.

The same is true of dead spots in the middle of the yard?

+++
EDIT I found the turfgrass disease ID threat from NC state. If the lawn is nomix which ones should I select?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

For the NC State, use perennial ryegrass, Kentucky bluegrass, fine and tall fescue.

I watched your video and got dizzy. Between seconds 0:01 to 0:09, there are three different areas. On the top near the house, at the bottom a dark/black area and towards the edge of the sidewalk. Which one are you concern the most?

The first thing to check is your irrigation. You mentioned 8min cycles and that's seems short. Do the tuna/straight wall container test and check 1) how long to get 1/2in full and 2) even coverage (do multiple containers all get 1/2in?.

Which area is expanding? Could you post some images of the edge between green and expanding?

Are you watering in the am only?

Have you noticed an increase in bugs when you mow? Did you applied a grub control this year?

It seems that I have more questions than answers at this point.


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

g-man said:


> For the NC State, use perennial ryegrass, Kentucky bluegrass, fine and tall fescue.
> 
> I watched your video and got dizzy. Between seconds 0:01 to 0:09, there are three different areas. On the top near the house, at the bottom a dark/black area and towards the edge of the sidewalk. Which one are you concern the most?
> 
> ...


Hey g-man, 
Sorry about the bad video, I've made a new, less frenetic one.

I'll do the tuna test tomorrow and I'll set up 10-12 containers to check coverage. We've had quite a bit of rain over the past few days which is why I held off. And yes, I was only watering in the am.

Regarding grubs/bugs. I see very few bugs or traces of bugs in my yard at all.


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## chrisben (Sep 11, 2017)

I'm not an expert here, but that looks dry as all get-out. Watering deeper, and less frequent encourages the plant roots to drive into the soil deeper, so as to better tolerate drought stress. Pretty sure the 8 minutes every day was for getting your new sod roots to begin establishing, after a bit, that's supposed to get longer, and less frequent. There's several recomendations in this thread for 1" of water, applied weekly, and it sounds like you're on the right path to that with the tuna can test. (as an idea, In my yard, decent pressure city water with above ground gear drive sprinklers, it takes me about 2 hours in each location I move the sprinklers to put down an inch of water.)
With regards to seeding dead/thin spots, like the area along the side walk, make sure to break up that soil with a garden weasal or something before re-seeding it this fall. (do you use a snow blower? be sure to put up markers along the driveway and sidewalk over the winter to prevent the traffic of your blower over the frozen grass, that's real tough on your sidewalk edging)


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

So I see 3 possibilities. 1 )You have Poor irrigation qty or evenness. 2) you had grubs or 3) you had a fungus. 
I used past tense in two of those since they are no longer active or at play.

I think you really need to ensure your irrigation/watering is correct first. The video shows too many dry areas and I see one head (1:47) that looks green around it but not 1ft in front. That's indicative of no head to head coverage. Nozzles are bad at spray water near them, but good at spraying at a distance. The head to head concept is that another nozzle sprays the area around the initial one. For example in your video, the nozzle at 1:47 should get water from the nozzle at the left corner. If you turn on the irrigation and dont see water landing on top of that nozzle, then that's a problem.

My current assumption is that the nitrogen you applied was at a high rate. That force the need for more water, but the water as not even/uniform so you see areas that are very green and full (the got water), but not everywhere. Lets focus on water/irrigation for now and make sure it is right before we work on other areas.


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

Thanks g-man and chrisben.

Performing the tuna can test with around 20 some cans tomorrow.

Will have results in a little bit more video to help illustrate what's happening with irrigation.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Hopefully you were not eating tuna all day to collect 20 cans :lol:

Maybe do a video of the irrigation on to see the spray patterns.


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

Haha, no. That would suck.

I cut off the bottoms of beer cans which were much more enjoyable.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Try to place some in the dry areas and some in the green areas. If it windy the cans might get knocked over, but it is worth the try.


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

Alright, ran the test. I have 2 zones for my front yard and ran both for 45 minutes. I think in total I have 11 or 12 sprinkler heads between those 2 zones. Can't remember exactly.

First thing I noticed is the problem spot I dug my hands into (not the one against the sidewalk) in the previous video was being blocked by a reed grass installation and wasn't receiving adequate hydration (I've now removed it).

As I looked through the yard I saw some cans got around an inch, and some got closer to 1/3 or 1/2. As expected most of the cans filled on the lower end were in the dead zones and the ultra-rich green zones were quite full. Though this wasn't always the case.

The entire area against the sidewalk was soaked and each can had close to an inch in there. So I'm still not sure how that died.

I've created another video just showing the irrigation in the morning.

https://youtu.be/utndZwjlX54


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

So, 45min gave you areas at 1in and 1/3in. You were doing 8min cycles, which I think explains the dry areas.

Option 1) water for 2hr so the 1/3 areas get closer to 1in. This is a wasteful option since other areas will get 3in.

Option 2) address the uneven pattern. In zone 1 the 360 do not have head to head. They don't even come close to watering to the middle. Those nozzle look to be like the ones used for shrubs instead of lawn. You could get the part number and look online. Also look if they have an adjustment for distance.

Did you had this irrigation installed or it was done previous owner? Do you feel comfortable going to the next steps to fix it?


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

I agree. And these were installed by the previous owner. I'll check to see if I can adjust the distance.

I'm more than prepared to fix it. My plan now is to water for 45 min to an hour for the rest of the summer and hit the dry areas with a hose. And I'm definitely comfortable with changing those heads out. I can wait for fall/winter after I've winterized to take care of them since we have plenty of warm days after October.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I dont think we need to wait until October. There might be some quick wins by changing the nozzles instead of the bodies. I think addressing the two 360 will help. Others look to be the right coverage. It is like if someone changed those two middle nozzles to the wrong ones.

Here is the plan:

-get a tape measure and draw (paper or AutoCAD)to scale the front area. Include any mulch / tree areas.
-add the head locations and distance between them
-try to get info about the nozzles (nornally the top has embossed numbers)


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

Looks like those two middle ones are rainbird 12fs.

I'm doing some research on whether or not the spray pattern can be expanded, or if I'll need to replace.

I noticed some of the sprinkler heads, both 90s and 180s, aren't reaching their full spray width, so I'm going to do more research on fixing that as well.

I'll also be following your instructions on mapping out my coverage at the moment so I have a good idea of what's going on.

Thanks again for all the help!


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## Lawnpool (Jun 19, 2018)

I'm not the pro that many others on this board are - and it sounds like they have you on the right track regarding water.

However - I do question your statement regarding following the LCN advice, as you say you last put fertilizer in April! Maybe I missed something - but it seems like you have not been feeding the lawn enough. I'd get on the LCN scheduled Milorganite applications and be persistent with it until the lawn comes back. The KBG, when well fed, should help to fill in those areas over time. For example - I also started being a lawn-nut in April, and applied Milo in April (starter fert), May (Milo), and on the 4th (Milo). I'm still due to do apply a starter in late August for over-seeding, then Milo or Ringer in Sept/Oct/Nov.

You have a great looking lawn. With a little attention - you will be mowing stripes by fall.


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

So I didn't actually follow any of LCN's protocols. Partly because I didn't know what kind of grass I had and secondly because I just started watching his videos in the past 4-6 weeks. So I'm not on his recommended schedule (which I'm unclear on).

And I did have it fertilized in April, by a landscaper whom I don't believe knows much about lawn care. I don't know what he used or how much.

I think what you said sounds good. Did those application cycles come from LCN?


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## Lawnpool (Jun 19, 2018)

There are lots of resources available. A few people earlier in this thread pointed you towards the cool season guide (https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1595).

The "Hybrid Organic Lawn Care Program" developed by LCN is what I'm currently doing. The following playlist was helpful to me when I first started (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaXBkM4qrjepJ7KrrI6rd9EnUM-Xp6KH2) he also sells a "cools season turf guide" which includes more details and lays it all out step by step. You can get the same content in the videos over time.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@adamlantelme I could not find any product from rainbird that had a 12FS. Could you post a picture of the top of the nozzle? Maybe @Rain Bird Corp could help us id it.


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

Shoot. 12F not 12fs

http://store.rainbird.com/12f-12-ft-full-circle-pattern-nozzle-360-degree.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=RainBirdPLA&utm_term=&gclid=CjwKCAjwspHaBRBFEiwA0eM3kSmlWNKp2oS7D9JB-9C4GCh3OuLprvz5eLoQeIDGCdoTkNb4D4cFYxoChGoQAvD_BwE


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

That makes sense. This is a 12 feet arc (total of 24feet) with matched precipitation (good stuff). Based on your video, it is not spreading 12 feet. It looks like 3ft.

Lets try the easy step first, unscrew it and check for dirt in the filter or it being not fully threaded.

There is also an adjustment screw in the top that allows changing the radius.


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

g-man said:


> That makes sense. This is a 12 feet arc (total of 24feet) with matched precipitation (good stuff). Based on your video, it is not spreading 12 feet. It looks like 3ft.
> 
> Lets try the easy step first, unscrew it and check for dirt in the filter or it being not fully threaded.
> 
> There is also an adjustment screw in the top that allows changing the radius.


Ok, I'll get on this ASAP.

Now, to ask an incredibly ridiculous question...is there a way to get the head to elevate without water? This head sits so far below the turf I'm so I'm wondering how I can get it out of the ground to make it easier to work on.

I suppose I could YouTube this but figured I'd ask.


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

Lawnpool said:


> There are lots of resources available. A few people earlier in this thread pointed you towards the cool season guide (https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1595).
> 
> The "Hybrid Organic Lawn Care Program" developed by LCN is what I'm currently doing. The following playlist was helpful to me when I first started (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaXBkM4qrjepJ7KrrI6rd9EnUM-Xp6KH2) he also sells a "cools season turf guide" which includes more details and lays it all out step by step. You can get the same content in the videos over time.


Yup, I've looked through the guide and plan on utilizing what I can.

Big learning curve here.

And thanks for the link to LCN's stuff. I'll go through that as well.


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

g-man said:


> That makes sense. This is a 12 feet arc (total of 24feet) with matched precipitation (good stuff). Based on your video, it is not spreading 12 feet. It looks like 3ft.
> 
> Lets try the easy step first, unscrew it and check for dirt in the filter or it being not fully threaded.
> 
> There is also an adjustment screw in the top that allows changing the radius.


So I finally got around to analyzing the sprinkler head. The screw on the top isn't an adjustment screw. Or, it doesn't appear to be. I twisted it to the left to increase the spray diameter and all that happened was the head popped off.

I plan to dig it up this weekend to get a better look and test additional functionality. I believe my assessment is true and I believe I'll end up needing to replace it with a rainbird 1800 as I have several in my backyard and they provide a lot more coverage.

At the end of the day I believe *most* of my grass has died because of underwatering. So, I plan to ovreseed in September and follow the Cool season grass guide for the next 12 months to get it nice and healthy by next summer.

What I believe is my final question (for this thread) would be if I have a nomix would it be best to overseed with a 50/50 blend of *** and PRG?

Thanks again for all the help.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

The head near the street that was sort of behind your trash can looked to be spraying directly into the tall grass in front of it. Not sure if that's the head you guys are talking about but the other two along the street were spraying over the grass and getting much better coverage.


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## adamlantelme (Jun 27, 2018)

TN Hawkeye said:


> The head near the street that was sort of behind your trash can looked to be spraying directly into the tall grass in front of it. Not sure if that's the head you guys are talking about but the other two along the street were spraying over the grass and getting much better coverage.


That wasn't the one, this one is the 360 sprayer in the top middle when you're at the place in the video.

The ones right up against the sidewalk actually seem to throw decent amount of water and provide some pretty coverage from what I could see.


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