# Looking for Crappy seed. Yup thats right..



## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

I live at the end of a cul-de-sac and it looks ugly and it's pretty horrid to look at. Weedy, brown, depressing, etc. 
My wife and I are going to make it a side job to spruce it up a bit in the spring. Any thoughts on cheap seed that can thrive with little to no maintenance,fert and water? It will get mowed but that's as far as it will go. I might fertilize it with something very cheap. Just looking for ideas.


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

This is a common area in the cul-de-sac? Who mows it? The reason I ask is I have always thought a native meadow mix was a cool idea. Relatively nice to look at, zero maintenance, and great for the local environment. Pretty sure this is not what you were thinking, but throwing it out there.

https://hancockseed.com/collections/wildflower-seed-mixes/products/northeast-wildflower-seed-mix


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

K31?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Agree with pennstater. 
For your area, I think TTTF and KY31 would be best. Ky 31 will likely require less water and may be more heat tolerant. It is easier to maintain in terms of product and water, but you may find that it grows a little faster than TTTF.

I would also be vigilant of weed seed analysis of the bag. There are some weeds that, when introduced, are difficult to eliminate.


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## Thenenk (Sep 14, 2018)

Clover. Pretty cheap you can mix with any grass seed as well. Not sure if that works in your situation but if you did enough you could even not mow it and just have green clover to look at.


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## mowww (Jan 16, 2018)

@Scagfreedom48z+ id recommend a no mow fine fescue blend. Cheap seed will get you cheap looking results that require more inputs to look even average. Check out some chewing, hard, sheep, creeping red fescue blends.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

mowww said:


> @Scagfreedom48z+ id recommend a no mow fine fescue blend. Cheap seed will get you cheap looking results that require more inputs to look even average. Check out some chewing, hard, sheep, creeping red fescue blends.


Scag,

KY-31 is the most durable as far as neglect and weather, but it can also get tall over time, so excellent point mowww recommending something low mow.

Hard Fescue is expensive. Supposed to be good stuff though. Similar to tall fescue in terms of hardiness and growth habit, but much finer and slower growing. KY-31 can be just as expensive in small quantities....but very cost effective in 50 lb bags.

There is also Linn Perennial Ryegrass...the PR counterpart to KY-31. I think Hogan may sell it to farmers if you wanted to get some.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Scagfreedom48z+, check out Ocean State Job Lot for cheap seed...

I seem to remember they have 3 lb bags for like $7. And probably larger sizes as well.

Expect it to be full of weeds (like Poa annua and Trivialis) and Annual Ryegrass, though.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

These are all great ideas. Here's a pic of the cul-de-sac. We are probably going to plant some scrubs. I like the k31,clover or a no mow fescue. It's not my property but I typically take care of it for the neighborhood. I could easily zap it with a pre and post em app.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

It looks deceiving but that area is about 4K sq ft... that's why I'm looking to keep things on the cheaper level and not have to do a whole to maintain


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> It looks deceiving but that area is about 4K sq ft... that's why I'm looking to keep things on the cheaper level and not have to do a whole to maintain


The biggest advantage of going with KY-31 TF or Linn PR is that Poa Trivialis is not as big a concern as it is in stuff that has KBG. Again, the 25 and especially 50 lb bags are where the deals are; TSC often has 50 lbs for $70. I would not mess so much with Creeping Red Fescue. It's a bit weak for your application. Chewings is good, but it can form large, discrete patches that look funny in a mixed or thin stand over time from what I hear, like islands of fine fescue.

KY-31 is more persistent, more weather hardy and has low disease susceptibility compared to Linn. It even does better in brown patch ratings than TTTF, I think. But the Linn germinates faster. Maybe mixing a low percentage of Linn (like 5%), with mostly KY-31, a little Hard Fescue, and a little Clover, to get quicker coverage from the Ryegrass, would be advantageous.

A 50 lb bag is more than enough with extra left. At $1.50 per lb, you won't do much better. Just be prepared for weed seed. Last year's crop (2018) even had Poa Triv in it in some cases.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Green said:


> Scagfreedom48z+ said:
> 
> 
> > It looks deceiving but that area is about 4K sq ft... that's why I'm looking to keep things on the cheaper level and not have to do a whole to maintain
> ...


Thanks green. I'm not overly concerned with the POA T. It's more to spruce up the weed farm that's out there. The K31 might be a great option. Seems like all of you guys are saying the same thing about k31.

I really liked the clover idea but the only thing that came to mind was that if the cul-de-sac gets hit with weeds again, I can't recall any herbicide that won't kill the clover. Is it a big deal? No because any improvement would be better than its current state. It looks awful. I use my lawn tractor to scalp down the weeds. I only use the tractor for the first few spring cuts to bag the POA A heads and for fall clean up. I have to scrub it down after and leaf blow the tractor because of fear of bringing over weed seeds to my turf. The zero turn doesn't come anywhere near the cul-de-sac


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

...just to throw a different perspective into the mix. I would do a little homework on NTEP for low maintenance cultivars for a cool season mix. Since you're in MA, you probably don't get blasted by heat too much, so maybe you don't need an all TTTF blend. If you look around your local nurseries, big box stores, etc., you might be able to find a few different small bag mixes with TTTF/KBG, kbg, FF, etc., that you could throw together to make a "Darwin's Mix". I did this for the hell of it a few years ago with 8 or so kbg cultivars. I did it as an overseed for my front lawn to hopefully grow something decent with medium fertility and otherwise lower inputs. NTEP definitely has some "low input" ratings on kbg from a few years back and you could probably throw some TTTF, PRG, and FF on the cheap to throw in and mix it all up yourself. If you're not looking to "geek out" like me on NTEP, the cheapest 70/30 combo of TTTF/(kbg/rye/ff) you could whip up together, would be something to consider.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Yeah, I'm not aware of any herbicides that Clover is unharmed by. But a single app of anything does not seem to destroy it, either. If there is already clover in there, maybe you can encourage it or even transplant plugs of it around to save on some of the seed cost.

Definitely stop by Ocean State Job Lot if you have one nearby.

As far as Chris's suggestion, NE Seed seems to sell 50 lb bags of mixed seed around here, which provide a good reference for a mix:

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4267&p=149224&hilit=England#p149224

I take back what I said earlier about CRF. I thought this was like an empty lot, not a landscaped circle. Some CRF in the mix would be fine.


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## mowww (Jan 16, 2018)

One nice thing if you go 100% FF, you can use Segment and Fusillade herbicide to selectively kill all other grasses including poa in the stand.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

@Green 
Nice! That's a broad spectrum mix which is what I was thinking of, for the "Darwin" suggestion. Cochise is a nice TTTF cultivar to structure the base TTTF seed selection on. It simplifies the seed selection if "NTEP nerding out" is not a consideration.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Also, I forgot to mention that frequent mowing is a plus. That alone will help density and crowding out weeds, regardless of HOC. That one change made a difference for me last year.

@Scagfreedom48z+
Do you and your neighbors share duties for mowing the culdesac, or is someone contracted to do it? Either way, if someone could step up to mow 2x per week, that should help.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Chris LI said:


> Also, I forgot to mention that frequent mowing is a plus. That alone will help density and crowding out weeds, regardless of HOC. That one change made a difference for me last year.
> 
> @Scagfreedom48z+
> Do you and your neighbors share duties for mowing the culdesac, or is someone contracted to do it? Either way, if someone could step up to mow 2x per week, that should help.


I mow it myself. If I were to plant grass seed there, I would definitely mow it more frequently. Since it was just weeds, I wouldn't concern myself much and would mow it 1x every 2-3 weeks


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

These are all fantastic recommendations. I'm definitely not being too critical of the seed option. The mass mixture of seed is a great idea. It's a trial and error effect where you're trying out as many options as possible to find a few cultivators that will deal with elements.

I live in southeastern mass and we get our fair share of heat during the summer. Especially that location where it's in full sun and getting adjunct heat from the road, it can get brutal. I certainly wouldn't be able to water it. It would solely depend on Mother Nature to deliver H20.

I do have ocean state job lot, big box stores and nurseries around.

I like the idea of adding clover to fill the areas in. I was thinking of hitting it with glypho 2-3 times, run the dethatcher through it to rip it all up, throw my cul-de Sac blades on and suck everything up and throw the seed down.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Only thing I'd be careful of is the dethatcher....you want to know what debris or buried cables may get hit.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Chris LI said:


> @Green
> Nice! That's a broad spectrum mix which is what I was thinking of, for the "Darwin" suggestion. Cochise is a nice TTTF cultivar to structure the base TTTF seed selection on. It simplifies the seed selection if "NTEP nerding out" is not a consideration.


The company site has a locater map for who sells their mixes, in case you're ever looking for that mix for a project.

I'm assuming that was mislabeled Cochise 3 or 4.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> These are all fantastic recommendations. I'm definitely not being too critical of the seed option. The mass mixture of seed is a great idea. It's a trial and error effect where you're trying out as many options as possible to find a few cultivators that will deal with elements.
> 
> I live in southeastern mass and we get our fair share of heat during the summer. Especially that location where it's in full sun and getting adjunct heat from the road, it can get brutal. I certainly wouldn't be able to water it. It would solely depend on Mother Nature to deliver H20.
> 
> ...


I would focus on a fall overseed around Labor Day, but it sounds like you want something for the season, too. Maybe you could drop some seed now (or soon) as a dormant or spring seed. Some might make it for the summer, but your main objective would be to get it to last, so Fall would be better (especially since there is no irrigation).


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## Dave (May 5, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> I really liked the clover idea but the only thing that came to mind was that if the cul-de-sac gets hit with weeds again, I can't recall any herbicide that won't kill the clover.


I haven't tried any, but I've read that 2,4-DB won't kill clover.

https://www.pestrong.com/1648-24-db-dma-200-generic-butyrac-200-herbicide-gallon.html
"CONTROLS: Many broadleaf weeds like 2,4-D, but will not kill the clover and alfalfa."


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Chris LI said:


> Scagfreedom48z+ said:
> 
> 
> > These are all fantastic recommendations. I'm definitely not being too critical of the seed option. The mass mixture of seed is a great idea. It's a trial and error effect where you're trying out as many options as possible to find a few cultivators that will deal with elements.
> ...


It's funny that we got more rain last year during the spring in April and May by a landslide compared to the fall. I think we only had a handful of days in both April and May that didn't rain. I was thinking that the seed would stand more or a chance in the spring. Then again, if this was my property, I would not be doing a reno in the spring but the fall.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> It's funny that we got more rain last year during the spring in April and May by a landslide compared to the fall. I think we only had a handful of days in both April and May that didn't rain. I was thinking that the seed would stand more or a chance in the spring. Then again, if this was my property, I would not be doing a reno in the spring but the fall.


Speaking of "it's funny", you are on the mark generally speaking. We have to play the cards we're dealt, and it always seems that when I try a large effort reno or overseeding in the fall (around Labor Day for my area), there is always an Indian summer with corresponding drought. I was going to mention that fall seeding is always better with better root development and ability to control moisture (avoiding washouts/seed rotting/etc.), but felt humbled when you mentioned spring had better moisture. Sometimes, it just goes that way...plans of mice and men. :dunno:


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