# HOA bugging me about turf regrowth



## quadmasta (Apr 3, 2019)

I had some silver maples removed earlier this year and the stumps ground which left a pretty decent "no grass" area in my lawn. I've got no clue what hybrid the builder used and it surprisingly doesn't look like the dirt cheap variety of sod at the local big box stores so I started plugging to fill the areas.

I got a nastygram from the HOA trying to force me to sod the area and I explained I was working on it. They sent another letter saying it wasn't good enough so I put out 50 more plugs (the area is about 50 square feet), applied humic DG, and urea 1/2 lb/1000. It's watered every day.

What else can I do to help speed this process up?

Pictures won't attach using the forum's thing so I'm going to try to attach another way, can someone let me know if it's not working?. The bottom picture was taken before I put the plugs out this afternoon.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=Mnh3ak5sQWpwSi1KRHZGTFdzZHFXek1aeUc0UnNR


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

The link for the photos worked for me. As for the area in question, I can't see where you put 50 plugs in, you may need to sod to keep the HOA off your arse.


----------



## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

In the dual-pic photo that you posted, is the upper pic what it looked like right after the silver maples were removed? What was the date of that?

In the lower pic, it looks like there is much better grass coverage than in the upper pic. How much time has elapsed between the two photos?

I presume you are pulling the plugs from good spots of your own lawn using a ProPlugger or something similar?


----------



## tcorbitt20 (Aug 31, 2018)

Plant annual rye grass and keep plugging. I hate HOAs.


----------



## quadmasta (Apr 3, 2019)

Thanks for all of the replies! Now I'll do some replying 



Mightyquinn said:


> The link for the photos worked for me. As for the area in question, I can't see where you put 50 plugs in, you may need to sod to keep the HOA off your arse.


Plugs aren't in that picture. I'll post another at the bottom of this post



ken-n-nancy said:


> In the dual-pic photo that you posted, is the upper pic what it looked like right after the silver maples were removed? What was the date of that?
> 
> In the lower pic, it looks like there is much better grass coverage than in the upper pic. How much time has elapsed between the two photos?
> 
> I presume you are pulling the plugs from good spots of your own lawn using a ProPlugger or something similar?


Top is about a week or two after the maples were removed. It took me almost that long to dig out all of the dirt from the stump grinding and screen out as much crap as I could. Date May 21

Lower pic is from today Jul 23. I pulled a dozen or so plugs between the pictures and placed them but due to storms and runoff only 3 or 4 survived. In the way that picture is positioned there's runoff from the joint in the driveway where it meets the sidewalk in the bottom left and it flows out toward the lower right where that edging is around that flower bed with the shrubs. Since there's more grass near that corner now it's FAR better.

You are presuming right. At first there wasn't much good turf left in my lawn so I was pulling from my neighbor to the right (in the picture) and didn't want to put undue burden on his lawn so I only took a few at a time. I'm pulling 4" plugs.



tcorbitt20 said:


> Plant annual rye grass and keep plugging. I hate HOAs.


Due to the drainage situation and all the sudden, heavy rain we're getting I'm not sure it'd germinate before it got washed away.

Here's after the plugs:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=TW55aDVPNUtycWV1NTFqS2p0VndFNW1zelN5Tmxn

I put crappy "all purpose" sand on top of anywhere the plugs didn't fill the hole so they were sub surface for both the grass and the dirt fills. There's a half-dozen or so plugs that aren't in this picture. The established turf is throwing off stolons like crazy. I'm mowing it at 1" every 3-4 days depending on rain. I just changed my sprinkler schedule so the front areas they're complaining about will get 1 minute of water every 3 hours 6 times a day starting at 4AM. Any more than 1 minute and I get substantial runoff.


----------



## Art_Vandelay (Nov 20, 2018)

quadmasta said:


> I got a nastygram from the HOA trying to force me to sod the area and I explained I was working on it. They sent another letter saying it wasn't good enough.
> 
> What else can I do to help speed this process up?


Move.

I hope I never have to live in a subdivision. Especially one with an HOA


----------



## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Why don't you ask the HOA what type of grass you have, and then buy a pallet and re-sod the substandard areas?


----------



## quadmasta (Apr 3, 2019)

FlowRider said:


> Why don't you ask the HOA what type of grass you have, and then buy a pallet and re-sod the substandard areas?


Because it's the second HOA management company that the neighborhood's had. The original builder went bankrupt, reincorporated, finished the rest of the neighborhood, and went bankrupt again. I guarantee nobody knows what type of sod it is. If it doesn't match my existing sod or invades my neighbor's yard, I'll get fined for that too.


----------



## elm34 (May 10, 2017)

How often are you applying the urea?


----------



## quadmasta (Apr 3, 2019)

elm34 said:


> How often are you applying the urea?


Before it got to where it was in the 90s daily I was applying it once a week. Since then (about a month) I've been doing every other week. It's probably due for a humic treatment too but the 10 day forecast hasn't given me 3 straight days of no rain for a while now. If I didn't have such large bare spots I wouldn't sweat it as much since it wouldn't all wash away but as-is that's expensive stuff to watch wash away.


----------



## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

quadmasta said:


> FlowRider said:
> 
> 
> > Why don't you ask the HOA what type of grass you have, and then buy a pallet and re-sod the substandard areas?
> ...


Well, that explains that...!

I used to have St. Augustine grass. I built a raised bed and filled it with garden soil bags of Miracle Gro. I cut plugs from my yard, and grew my own sod. Whenever I needed to fill in an area, I just custom cut a patch of new sod.

A lot easier than trying to grow it in less than ideal growing conditions. Something you might want to consider....

Good luck with it.


----------



## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

quadmasta said:


> Top is about a week or two after the maples were removed ... May 21
> 
> Lower pic is from today Jul 23. ...


OK, so in two months, it seems like you have covered about half of the area altogether. Unfortunately, the worst looking part is pretty close to the sidewalk, where it is most visible to passersby from the HOA.



quadmasta said:


> Here's after the plugs:
> https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=TW55aDVPNUtycWV1NTFqS2p0VndFNW1zelN5Tmxn


Well, one can see where the plugs are in the new photo. Seems to me, though, that you probably want about twice the density of the plugs that you have placed to have hope of filling in within a month from now. Three times the density of plugs would be even better!

If you do place more plugs, focus on the area that is near the center of the big bare spots -- the established grass around the edges will spread faster than the newly-placed plugs, so you don't need extra plugs in the area near the edges, but would definitely benefit from more plugs in the middle.

The daily watering and continued fertilizer will help. Keep it up!

Do you think showing the HOA the May 21 and July 23 pics to demonstrate progress, with an estimate that you can get the rest of the gap closed by the end of August would placate them?



quadmasta said:


> The established turf is throwing off stolons like crazy.


That's encouraging. Sounds like you're doing the right things.

What are the white spots showing up in various places in the new photo?


----------



## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

I'd do a liquid light fertilizer every 5-7 days from what I'm researching....less amount, more often, and use a liquid so it is absorbed before the rain Maybe add some liquid kelp product as well as the humic. Also, do you need 3 rain free days for humic? That seems excessive to me.


----------



## quadmasta (Apr 3, 2019)

ken-n-nancy said:


> That's encouraging. Sounds like you're doing the right things.
> 
> What are the white spots showing up in various places in the new photo?
> 
> Do you think showing the HOA the May 21 and July 23 pics to demonstrate progress, with an estimate that you can get the rest of the gap closed by the end of August would placate them?


That's the crappy "what I had on hand" sand. If it's in the middle of a grassy area it's on top of a soil plug that fell apart or had a rock in it so it didn't fill the hole. If it's in a not so grassy area it's where the grass plug didn't pull deep enough and there was room at the top once the plug slid into its new home so I added sand on top,

I already drafted an email response explaining what I did today and what I've been doing the whole time including the before and after pictures Here's the other https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=QjhYSTRUeHRWcDl1NFFNdFVjSWExZ0tCZUppNUF3

I also think there's a huge difference between someone ignoring the rules and not doing anything to fix the situation and someone who's put a good chunk of time and money into immediately fixing the problem.

We had a really weird spring and it didn't consistently stay in the Bermuda sweet spot until early May and then it went crazy *** mid-high 90s for 2 straight weeks, then back down to low 80s. It's been a Bermuda rollercoaster. I also tried sprigging pulling stolons from areas that normally get edged but they mostly got scorched out by the insane heat. The only ones that survived are the ones I buried completely and they're slowly throwing off new growth.



ktgrok said:


> I'd do a liquid light fertilizer every 5-7 days from what I'm researching....less amount, more often, and use a liquid so it is absorbed before the rain Maybe add some liquid kelp product as well as the humic. Also, do you need 3 rain free days for humic? That seems excessive to me.


I need 3 days where I can hit it with irrigation and make sure it's all broken down and in the soil before it rains and washes it all away. That area's on a slope and there's not enough turf yet to catch and hold the humic. I've got Anderson's Humic DG which I think has kelp in it and that's what I've applied a few times. I've got some Anderson's Innova I'm going to put down once I get more coverage but right now I'm just trying to push it hard to get even sparse coverage.


----------



## fp_911 (Apr 10, 2017)

I would create my own sod from a section of the yard not visible to the HOA.

Then go back to the new bare spot and plant your plugs there. That way you get them off your back and you maintain the same type of grass throughout the yard.


----------



## bassadict69 (Apr 2, 2018)

Paint it green...


----------



## T0R0 (Mar 4, 2019)

It's going to be Tifway 419 or TifTuf that the builder originally used. Why don't you pull a plug and take that to your local Super Sod or sod farm of choice and see if you can match it with what they are growing. TifTuf is not as dark green as 419.


----------



## Francoix (May 16, 2019)

I would go around the association and take pictures of lawns that are in worst condition than yours and make a case that you are making progress. I would especially target the lawns of the on-site association board (The president, vice, treasurer) and compare their lawns to your. I had a similar problem with my HOA and the presidents lawn was far worse than mine. I stated in my letter to them that I am fixing my lawn, but the presidents lawn had to be fixed first before any fines would be applied. That got them off my back. I moved and no longer deal with them.


----------



## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

I won a battle with the Naz-- "HOA" over a similar issue. Front yard got torn up in April of 2013 by swimming pool construction equipment. I sprigged vs sodded, and in late May I got the warning letter. Instead of writing, I called and left a message. End of message I said, "If I don't hear back I will assume this approach is deemed acceptable". Two weeks later I called again, left the same message. Two weeks later, I got second warning letter, called again. left same message. Two weeks later, left another message. By this point, it had been two months (Late July / early August), and it'd almost completely filled in. This was growing Tif419 Bermuda in Phoenix. Never once got a call back from the HOA. Knew I wouldn't. They only communicate via pony express. Then I get the fine. $25.

So in my response, I listed the dates and times of the calls along with the text of the voice messages and made the case that any reasonable person would have assumed that the HOA had accepted the sprigging as a solution. I also sent pictures showing it would do more harm than good to tear it up and sod, since it was three weeks away from filling in.

Well, THIS time, the HOA called back, and all they did was yell at me that they did not have a communication problem, which I had never accused them of. After that, I never heard anything else regarding the fine or the yard, and the manager was replaced. So apparently this was not a one-time thing.

However, the moral of the story: Suppose the fine had stood.... $25 vs sodding? Sold! I'll pay that fine every month for four months vs $2500 in sodding. Although, like Francoix said, moving away and leaving the HOA behind was very nice.


----------



## Visitor (Jul 23, 2018)

Piggy-backing @Darth-v8r. See what the fine is and how often they can fine you. Depending on the state it could take a lot of required steps before they can fine you. As a board member in Texas it drives me crazy.

Depending on frequency, it may be worth just paying the fine(s). They may not even have the legal right to require you to sod vs seed vs plug FWIW.


----------



## sportsman10 (Feb 25, 2019)

Summary of the best options:

1 - Move and never get involved in an HOA again (JK, but seriously)
2 - Put in lots more plugs. Lots. You're gonna have to make it look filled in. Maybe even paint the area green
3 - Cut sod pieces and move them from another part of your yard that the HOA won't see.
4 - Find out how much the fine is if you ignore them and how often they can repeat a fine. It may be worth just paying the fine vs paying for unmatched sod.

My other suggestion would be to find out if the HOA bylaws require sodding only. If you could seed PRG that could buy you lots of time and you can easily kill the PRG later (MSM).


----------



## quadmasta (Apr 3, 2019)

The fine's $25 PER DAY after the 30 day re-inspection period so that's not feasible.

My neighbor on the other side replaced sod with a completely different type of sod after we installed a roof runoff capture system to fix a massive drainage/washout problem so I can't pull sod from there. I nuked my back yard to reset it and that's regrowing from this other type of turf pretty well but it's not where I can pull sod from it.

The clause quoted by the HOA in the violation letter says absolutely nothing about sodding, only seeding so they can't really force me to sod based on that 

I took pictures after the plugs and showed them the progress pictures and gave all of the detail about watering, fertilization, mowing and reiterated that I'm not just sitting on my hands and doing nothing, I'm working on it. They replied in 2 days that they're closing the violation.


----------



## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

quadmasta said:


> The fine's $25 PER DAY after the 30 day re-inspection period ...
> 
> I took pictures after the plugs and showed them the progress pictures and gave all of the detail about watering, fertilization, mowing and reiterated that I'm not just sitting on my hands and doing nothing, I'm working on it. They replied in 2 days that they're closing the violation.


So, if I'm understanding right, based upon the progress pictures and info you provided, the HOA is going to close the violation and let you proceed with the plugging approach?

If so, congratulations!

So thankful I'm not in an HOA. I probably would have received grief last year when killing off the entire front lawn, even if it had been the best one in the neighborhood at the time. Neighbors were stunned that I did it on purpose!


----------



## quadmasta (Apr 3, 2019)

It seems that way. They closed the last violation after I did the same thing so we'll see if there's amnesia again the next time around


----------



## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

That's good. Sometimes all they really want to know is you're doing SOMETHING and not just letting it ruin the neighbor's property value.


----------



## sportsman10 (Feb 25, 2019)

sportsman10 said:


> Summary of the best options:
> 
> 1 - Move and never get involved in an HOA again (JK, but seriously)
> 2 - Put in lots more plugs. Lots. You're gonna have to make it look filled in. Maybe even paint the area green
> ...


Great news that they dropped the violation!

Now see option #1.


----------



## Visitor (Jul 23, 2018)

quadmasta said:


> It seems that way. They closed the last violation after I did the same thing so we'll see if there's amnesia again the next time around


They are probably covering their legal bases so if you weren't making an effort they could get to forced remediation or fines faster. Not specifically for your case, but overall smart on their part.


----------



## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

HOA's/POA's only care about you following the covenants of your deed to protect the property value of the neighborhood. Seems like you are lucky that they care so much! :lol:


----------



## LoCutt (Jul 29, 2019)

I have a "plugger" which is a T-shaped pipe. You stick it in the ground and pull it back out with a 3/4 inch diameter plug of grass and dirt. Take a piece of tape and wrap around the pipe to have a repeatable depth. You can get plugs out of your thickest areas (also called aeration) and plug them into. the weakest areas. You could just swap the grass for the dirt. This pipe has a slit in it so you can use your finger to help get the grass out.

You can also verticut it and get sprigs. If an individual piece of grass has three joints on it, it will grow. Make sure you lightly water several times per day as the number one problem with sprigs is drying out. When I sprigged my lawn, I set the sprinkler system to water three times in the morning; I came home at lunch and did three more in the afternoon. Plus I checked it when I got home after work. I verticut my front later and raked up the mess which I took to my brother's house and sprigged his back yard.

Tell the HOA that golf courses sprig their greens because it makes a higher quality turf and that's your intention..


----------

