# TTTF (shaded) in Transition Zone (Oklahoma)



## PokeGrande (Mar 25, 2018)

Hello, cool season folks. First post in this forum since finding/joining TLF a little while back. I feel like I live in a warm season climate and have bermuda (cut reel low) in my sunny back yard but have cool season TTTF in my front, which is shaded by two massive oak trees:



Most summers are hot and humid and fescue is the grass grown in the shade in this area but does not look so good come July (looks great in the spring and fall). And so I've decide to get serious about my front yard as I am with my bermuda in back. Not sure how many specific questions I have but if anyone can provide some tips for caring for TTTF in this climate under somewhat dense shade, it would be appreciated.

In the pic, you're looking towards the east and that side gets a decent amount of morning sun. We had our tree canopies thinned out quite a bit two falls ago so it does get some filtered sun through the day.

Thoughts on HOC - 3", 3.5" or 4"?

What are best watering practices considering it needs more water (than my bermuda) but will be put a greater risk for fungus/disease?

What are preferred fungicides? Is Serenade worth using at all?

Definitely will not fertilize until the fall. I have two separate small strips/patches I plan to reno this fall to see how I get along and seed with a custom blend (Heartland Supreme) supposedly developed (the blend) by OSU that is best suited for the area. If the small reno goes well, then I'm likely to do the same with the main plots the following fall.

Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

The two killers of fescue in the heat are fungus and lack of water, in that order.

With fescue fungus is a matter of when, not if, so if you want to maintain a high quality lawn through summer I would suggest a preventive fungicide regimen using Scotts DiseaseEx. If some damage is acceptable, you can skip the preventive and just apply it when you see signs of disease.

For obvious reasons, drought tolerance should be a lot better in the shade than in full sun, but you have those trees there which probably suck a lot of the water out of the ground. What I do, and what I suggest to others, is to simply wait until you see the grass show signs of drought stress then water 1". Then wait to see drought stress again. This minimizes water use and keeps the grass dry to minimize fungus issues.

I would suggest cutting at 3" as a happy medium between having enough surface area for photosynthesis and enhancing air flow through the canopy.


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## PokeGrande (Mar 25, 2018)

j4c11 said:


> The two killers of fescue in the heat are fungus and lack of water, in that order.
> 
> With fescue fungus is a matter of when, not if, so if you want to maintain a high quality lawn through summer I would suggest a preventive fungicide regimen using Scotts DiseaseEx. If some damage is acceptable, you can skip the preventive and just apply it when you see signs of disease.
> 
> ...


Thank you, j4c11. The Scotts DiseaseEx AI is same as Heritage G? If preventive applications are skipped, would the same fungicide be used once signs appear? Or would a different fungicide be used at that time?

Thank you.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

PokeGrande said:


> Thank you, j4c11. The Scotts DiseaseEx AI is same as Heritage G? If preventive applications are skipped, would the same fungicide be used once signs appear? Or would a different fungicide be used at that time?
> 
> Thank you.


Yep, azoxystrobin. You can also use azoxystrobin as a curative, though all fungicides are best used as a preventive. Easier to stay out of trouble than to get out of trouble. If you do end up using it, rotate with propiconazole (Bayer Fungus Control etc.).


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## PokeGrande (Mar 25, 2018)

j4c11 said:


> PokeGrande said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you, j4c11. The Scotts DiseaseEx AI is same as Heritage G? If preventive applications are skipped, would the same fungicide be used once signs appear? Or would a different fungicide be used at that time?
> ...


Would you rotate and apply one every two weeks or is that too often? I suppose it also depends on the rate of application.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

PokeGrande said:


> Would you rotate and apply one every two weeks or is that too often? I suppose it also depends on the rate of application.


Right, depends on the rate. I'd suggest going with every 2 weeks rather than once a month - you'd adjust the rate accordingly based on bag directions.


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## PokeGrande (Mar 25, 2018)

Great, thank you for all the advice!


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## rockinmylawn (Mar 25, 2018)

j4c11 said:


> Yep, azoxystrobin. You can also use azoxystrobin as a curative, though all fungicides are best used as a preventive. Easier to stay out of trouble than to get out of trouble. If you do end up using it, rotate with propiconazole (Bayer Fungus Control etc.).


Is it recommended to buy a name brand (Bayer/Scott) fungicide or go for a generic name professional grade based on performance/price ratio?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Names means nothing. Go for price/performance.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

g-man said:


> Names means nothing. Go for price/performance.


Ditto.

If I don't know how familiar a poster is with spraying and whether they have the equipment to do so, I stick to stuff I know can be found at big box stores and is easy to apply and hard to screw up. Once you start talking about spraying to someone who's never done it, you're going down the rabbit hole both cost wise and complexity wise- what sprayer, what nozzle, does it have to have a TLF sticker on it, how to calibrate, surfactant etc.


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > Names means nothing. Go for price/performance.
> ...


 :lol:


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

I am a big fan of using Serenade and Actinovate. I typically use one of these every 2 weeks once it starts to get humid and try to avoid the use of other fungicides. I do and will use fungicides quickly if I start to see disease.

If you can keep an eye on the turf I would start with Serenade and use the fungicides quickly if you start to see disease.

I would skip spring/summer fertilization in the these areas, if you do want to fertilize I would consider going organic.

Water deeply and only first thing in the AM.

A soil surfactant may also be of benefit to help with drought stress.


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## PokeGrande (Mar 25, 2018)

What about thiophanate-methyl? Online it said my local Home Depot had the Scott's DiseaseEx in stock. Since the high temps have reached 90+ the last several days, I wanted to get something on it so planned to spread the granular azoxystrobin this evening. However, the bags they had were the Scott's Fungus Control, AI = thiophanate-methyl. Would that work for one application until my propiconazole arrives as well as procuring some azoxystrobin? I also have a quart of Serenade on hand.


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## rockinmylawn (Mar 25, 2018)

j4c11 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > Names means nothing. Go for price/performance.
> ...


Sorry I should have posted - buy something from a Big Box store (Lowes/HD) or go for the more no name concentrates you see on sites like domyown that has the ingredients -you mentioned - in higher dosage?

I'm familiar enough with spraying stuff from concentrate (prodiamine/tenacity/speezone) & also the WBG/WBG CCO concentrates.

So the question was more gears towards efficacy of box store stuff vs. pro grade stuff for the average home owner.


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## PokeGrande (Mar 25, 2018)

If I rotate azoxystrobin and propriconazole, would it just be a waste to also apply Serenade?

Re: PGR, I was under the impression you should not apply/use during times of stress. Stress for my TTTF lawn would be summer heat and humidity. However, is that not correct as I've noticed quite a few that use a PGR during the summer? I already have T-Nex on hand for my bermuda.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

PokeGrande said:


> If I rotate azoxystrobin and propriconazole, would it just be a waste to also apply Serenade?


I think so.



PokeGrande said:


> Re: PGR, I was under the impression you should not apply/use during times of stress. Stress for my TTTF lawn would be summer heat and humidity. However, is that not correct as I've noticed quite a few that use a PGR during the summer? I already have T-Nex on hand for my bermuda.


T-Nex helps with drought tolerance, but you have to start before drought sets in to pre-condition the grass. I think with it being in the shade it would be ok to start now if you want. If you do apply PGR, fungicide becomes mandatory.


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## PokeGrande (Mar 25, 2018)

j4c11 said:


> PokeGrande said:
> 
> 
> > If I rotate azoxystrobin and propriconazole, would it just be a waste to also apply Serenade?
> ...


Thanks for your response. On Thursday, I put down preventive rate of Scott's Fungus Control (thiophanate-methyl) and the propriconazole arrived from DoMyOwn on Saturday. I had applied PGR to it back on 5/4 but it was a low dose so I'll give it a higher dose and see how it goes.


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## PokeGrande (Mar 25, 2018)

So we've been having above normal temps - skipped right over spring. Can someone confirm the following? Brown patch?


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## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

Last pictures show a little disease, but doesn't have the "look" im used to seeing with brown patch. Not really sure, but spray the propiconizole when it comes in, and let the grass go out of regulation when the pgr wears off. You want to grow those spots out.

Most of what i see that's brown, just looks like stress. In the top 2 pictures there aren't really any leasions on the green and brown blades. Maybe up the water a tick if you're having soke really hot temps.

Also, i can't tell well enough to identify, but there is another grass in there. Honestly, looks like Kbg. And that's what's diseased. Your actual Tttf looks good.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@PokeGrande Also, some of the blades have been torn; some tips look especially discolored, perhaps because of this.

It would be a good idea to sharpen your blade(s).


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## PokeGrande (Mar 25, 2018)

Thanks, guys.

I was hoping it was only stress. The propiconazole was sprayed about a week ago.

I've probably only mowed 10 times or so with a newly sharpened blades (5K of TTTF). How often does everyone else changed out their blades?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

That's not much mowing to dull the blade. 
But I've noticed a lot of variation on the forum: some sharpen 1-2 times per season, while others sharpen often (once per month or more?). Personally, I think it depends on lot size, blade type, weed types, turf thickness, mower, maybe even mowing height. 
Therefore, I don't sharpen based on timeframe; I just check the grass.

I changed blades on two mowers at the same time this year. One mower has a blade that is plenty sharp. The other mower has blades that already need sharpening.


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## Austin (Apr 30, 2018)

I put down Scotts Disease Ex every two weeks starting in mid April and I still had two small spots of brown patch. (had one week of hot and humid with light rain showers late afternoon) I will be putting down eagle on the next app. I'm cutting my tttf @ 4" in the front and 4.25" in the back. I'm right at 1.5" of water split between Sunday and Thursday.

Your lawn looks really good!!!


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## PokeGrande (Mar 25, 2018)

Just confirming this is more of the same, heat and stress related. Quite a bit of it now. This is when my lawn starts to die for the summer. A little earlier this year due to summer weather coming much earlier. Does TTTF go dormant?









The last pic is what I'm hoping is healthy grass, for reference. I've sharpened my 2nd set of blades but haven't swapped them yet as I'm going to use my rotary on a lawn with not so good grass + lots of weeds on Friday. Haven't really needed to mow, however.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I think that you are going to need to post clearer pictures. Ironically, the greener blades are more in focus, but the browner ones we need to see are just enough out of focus that we can't tell.
I hesitate to make the call anyway, but with clearer pictures, someone else may.


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## PokeGrande (Mar 25, 2018)

Ok, sorry, I'll try to take better pics after work today. Thanks!


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## PokeGrande (Mar 25, 2018)

These any better? The grass actually looked a little better today.


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