# Kentucky Blue Grass and Bermuda - Bluemuda



## dmouw

would it work to overseed a Bermuda lawn with kbg? has anyone tried this or seen it done?


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## zeus201

As aggressive as that weed is, I would find next to impossible. People with cool season turfs struggle getting KBG overseeds to be successful.

Embrace the weed or nuke it and start over would be my suggestion.


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## Pete1313

I don't think anyone on here has tried it yet, but it has been done. Google bluemuda.
https://www.mosportsturfconsulting.com

It was talked about on an issue of "Frankly Speaking". It was a very interesting listen.
https://www.turfnet.com/blogs/entry/1579-talking-bluemuda-with-brian-winka-cfsm/


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## Pete1313

zeus201 said:


> As aggressive as that weed is, I would find next to impossible. People with cool season turfs struggle getting KBG overseeds to be successful.


You could overseed the KBG when the Bermuda is going dormant. I would love to see somebody try this and maintain it year round!


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## zeus201

Pete1313 said:


> zeus201 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As aggressive as that weed is, I would find next to impossible. People with cool season turfs struggle getting KBG overseeds to be successful.
> 
> 
> 
> You could overseed the KBG when the Bermuda is going dormant. I would love to see somebody try this and maintain it year round!
Click to expand...

Good thought, perhaps I should not have dismissed the notion.


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## Pete1313

zeus201 said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zeus201 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As aggressive as that weed is, I would find next to impossible. People with cool season turfs struggle getting KBG overseeds to be successful.
> 
> 
> 
> You could overseed the KBG when the Bermuda is going dormant. I would love to see somebody try this and maintain it year round!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good thought, perhaps I should not have dismissed the notion.
Click to expand...

I listen to alot of the TurfNet podcasts and would have never thought it was possible or would be successful until I heard about it there. Makes me almost want to move to the transition zone to try it.. almost.


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## gene_stl

Bluemuda. Who knew? I am going to listen to that podcast. Consider yourself lucky that you don't live in the transition zone.


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## Pete1313

gene_stl said:


> Consider yourself lucky that you don't live in the transition zone.


Oh I do!


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Bluemuda. Huh. Sounds interesting. Usually I see the cow look when lawns have a mix. Patches. I wonder how well they grow intermingled and what kind of work it would require to keep that uniform look.


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## Green

For Bluemuda, I feel like you would need a KBG cultivar or blend that is both aggressive and has early Spring green up and great heat tolerance to really compete with the Bermuda. No idea what cultivar fits that.

Also you need a location that is semi conducive to both KBG and Bermuda, where at least some of each will make it through the Winter and Summer. Maybe Northern Virginia...? Long Island Sound area is about the furthest North cold tolerant Bermuda can be pushed...but Winter kill is expected to some degree. Probably not the best place for Bluemuda mixes.


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## g-man

When you read the links, it is using barenburg HGT bluegrass. Which you could buy from advance turf solutions. In the images it looks really good.


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## LawnNerd

I smell marketing BS on this...

See i think the issue would come in the summer when the Blue is struggling. If you're watering(or decent rain)on the short bermuda like you should be and fertilizing, that Blue is not going to go dormant. It'll just be heat stressed and a little drought stressed.

They probably water the ever living sh!t out of it, but neglect to mention that... You know they watered everyday for a week in early june and quick took a picture... Oh wait, That's exactly what he did... Picture was taken on June 2015. Show me that turf field at the end of July when it's been a hot hot hot year. It'll be beat up!

How do i know this? I've got Blue in my Zoysia.


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## Turfguy93

@LawnNerd 
The purpose is to have Bermuda be dominant in Summer and kbg dominant in spring and fall. Same as overseeding Bermuda withought actually over seeding


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## Pete1313

LawnNerd said:


> Show me that turf field at the end of July when it's been a hot hot hot year. It'll be beat up!


Will a soccer field in August do? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/900154330275352577


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## Pete1313

I think if someone does this @Ware would have to create a special sub-forum just for them.. Is it a cool season? Warm season? :lol:


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## g-man

I think some of the transition members fighting Bermuda could try this. This is using barenburg kbg seeds that are meant for strong wear resistance (atlethic fields) and drought (transition zone). It sacrifices color, but that makes it blend with Bermuda easier.


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## Green

So, I have mixed feelings about Bermuda use pushing Northward over time. On one hand, it's really exciting and I want to try it out. On the other hand, once it's introduced into an area, it will become an aggressive and invasive Summer weed that invades cool season lawn areas. UConn has been doing Bermuda trials for a while with the cold tolerant cultivars. Most years, they get enough to survive the Winter and spread in the late Spring and Summer to regenerate their test plot coverage.

Right now, low tech warm season overseeding is done (unintentionally) with crabgrass on school yards and the like in my area.


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## Cory

There are altheltic fields and golf courses doing this all over the transition zone. From what I have seen it's being done in zones 5b to 7b on the USDA plant hardiness map. There is not a ton of research available on it because it is still a relatively new concept. The biggest issue I can find with it is that most herbicides aren't compatible with both grass types and fertilizing Bermuda when it's going dormant is not a good idea, same goes for KBG. But there are plenty of examples of turf managers with successful fields if you search for them. I am seriously considering over seeding my backyard with KBG in the fall to see if it will work for me, I hate looking a my brown lawn when all the fescue around here is lush and green.


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## Green

Yeah, the herbicide thing might be an issue for specialty herbicides since they're not really compatible. As far as fertilizing, spoon feeding with mostly organics would probably eliminate a lot of the issues since it's not enough to shock dormant grass. Very labor intensive and expensive, though. Probably not a good low input grass mix.

@Cory, I feel like you have nothing to lose by testing overseeding with KBG. It's going the other direction that I'd be hesitant to do...introducing Bermuda to areas where it shouldn't be. Maybe if there was a way to have a self contained lawn area surrounded by pavement...

Being on the border of the cool season area and transition zone (going by the newest boundaries, which have pushed North to Long Island Sound and Cape Cod in recent years), I feel like experimenting with Bermuda is probably in my future at some point down the road.


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## Still learnin

That's very interesting. My plan was to lay some HGT sod on some bare areas here pretty soon. The Bermuda will definitely spread to it so I guess I will have an experiment on my hands.


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## Cory

@Green understandable. Depending on the map you look at I'm on the opposite edge. I'm technically in zone 8a and NC State puts me in the costal plane region but I'm right on the border of both. Fescue is the only suggested cool season for me if you dive 20 min east there are a bunch of KBG lawns and fescue does really well here in the spring and fall but completely crispy in summer. So that's why I'm considering it, I want green spring and fall but would like to not have to overseed every year with rye then kill it off going into summer.


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## Delmarva Keith

I have an existing patch of berfescue. About 3,500 sq ft total area. Been trying to kill off the invasive bermuda for a few years.  Actually looks pretty good from a distance.


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## Green

Cory said:


> @Green understandable. Depending on the map you look at I'm on the opposite edge. I'm technically in zone 8a and NC State puts me in the costal plane region but I'm right on the border of both.


Yeah, we are 6b/7a up here, and can grow any cool season grass or Zoysia. But in the Summer, crabgrass typically takes over unmanaged lawns. Bermuda isn't a thought to most people because until recently there wasn't any that could survive below zero temps for sale.


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## Colonel K0rn

Pete1313 said:


> I think if someone does this @Ware would have to create a special sub-forum just for them.. Is it a cool season? Warm season? :lol:


How about Lukewarm?


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## Pete1313

Colonel K0rn said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think if someone does this @Ware would have to create a special sub-forum just for them.. Is it a cool season? Warm season? :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> How about Lukewarm?
Click to expand...

 :lol:


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## Cory

Colonel K0rn said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think if someone does this @Ware would have to create a special sub-forum just for them.. Is it a cool season? Warm season? :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> How about Lukewarm?
Click to expand...

😂😂😂


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## ABC123

So how cold have they been able to make Bermuda hardiness to, as in zone?


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## j4c11

I ran into this when I was researching HGT a few years ago, and considered doing it a couple of times, but it doesn't make sense on a typical home lawn. First thing is Bermuda looks clumpy in tall cut KBG(don't ask me how I know), so you'd need to go low, below 1". At that height, in he heat of summer in the transition zone, the bluegrass won't make it past mid June without constant irrigation. So you'd need to irrigate anyway, and at that point might as well just go 100% KBG. If you let the bluegrass go you can expect heavy losses and recovery will take months, so you're just shifting the "brown window".

Where I see this being useful is athletic fields. KBG is not going to recover from wear during summer, so having Bermuda there to aggressively spread and fill in patches is advantageous. Lawns which experience a lot of traffic might benefit as well.


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## dmouw

Every year I battle the rye grass transition into Bermuda and it seemed like a simpler process but I'm not an expert. It might just be a different transition struggle


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## DTCC_Turf

https://sportsturfonline.com/2018/07/24/best-management-practices-on-bluemuda-athletic-fields/9653/


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## Green

Perfect timing. Maybe the publisher of that site saw our discussion and upped the posting date of the article!


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## dmouw

BLUEMUDA! I'm jumping in and doing it this fall. should I overseed straight KBG or throw in some PRG?


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## g-man

^ i think you should reach out to the blumuda guys (https://www.mosportsturfconsulting.com/) for guidance. I know the kbg cultivar needs to be one that tolerates high temps better than the ones used in the north.


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## probasestealer

I have a partial bluemuda yard. The bermuda is a weed, but I don't see it until late summer and by the time I start to manage the lawn for fall it's not growing nearly as fast as is easily outcompeted by the cool-season grass. My employer has a fecue/bermuda stand that looks great.

I'm not much for slice-seeding or aerating, but I would think a mid-late September overseed with one of these techniques would work for this.


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## Still learnin

My neighbor actually has a fescue/Bermuda lawn. I don't think it was on purpose, but it looks good right now while my fescue looks terrible. In the winter, his looks pretty green with just a couple 100% Bermuda spots that are brown. I am not sure how he was managed that since he only mows and has trugreen spray for him.


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## dmouw

i need to do some leveling and I plan on dethatching /scalping then seeding in my HGT Turf Blue KBG in September. should I level now, or after I dethatch and scalp, or wait till spring?


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## probasestealer

dmouw said:


> i need to do some leveling and I plan on dethatching /scalping then seeding in my HGT Turf Blue KBG in September. should I level now, or after I dethatch and scalp, or wait till spring?


I think it depends on how much leveling. If you need to apply a lot of product you may not have enough time for the bermuda to fully recover before seeding KBG. You're kind of up against it now, I would probably level late spring knowing that you will have to at least reseed that area with KBG next fall. Just my .02


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## dmouw




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## Pete1313

That's the stuff! I'm excited to see how this turns out!


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## NewLawnJon

I am thinking that in 2019 I might try converting parts of my lawn to blumuda. It looks like Latitude 36 will grow in my area, and I can get plugs of it and plant it in late spring.

In the fall I would go back and overseed the Bermuda with the Turf Blue HGT.

I am thinking that since I can only get plugs of Bermuda I might start with my sidewalk strips, and if they do well, each year pull plugs from the strips (and order some) to transplant into other areas of the yard.


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## osuturfman

NewLawnJon said:


> I am thinking that in 2019 I might try converting parts of my lawn to blumuda. It looks like Latitude 36 will grow in my area, and I can get plugs of it and plant it in late spring.
> 
> In the fall I would go back and overseed the Bermuda with the Turf Blue HGT.
> 
> I am thinking that since I can only get plugs of Bermuda I might start with my sidewalk strips, and if they do well, each year pull plugs from the strips (and order some) to transplant into other areas of the yard.


You should take a look at Tahoma instead of Latittude 36. It's the newest variety out from Oklahoma State, who also bred Lat36, and has done substantially better in the winter kill studies across the northern end of the transition zone.

Check out page 118 of this document.

https://ntep.org/ntep/data/bg13/bg13_18-14f/bg13_18-14f.pdf

Also, here's the pertinent table from NTEP on winter kill ratings.



One other point, I would look at other options for a bluegrass blend. You can do better than HGT from a performance and value standpoint.


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## NewLawnJon

osuturfman said:


> NewLawnJon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am thinking that in 2019 I might try converting parts of my lawn to blumuda. It looks like Latitude 36 will grow in my area, and I can get plugs of it and plant it in late spring.
> 
> In the fall I would go back and overseed the Bermuda with the Turf Blue HGT.
> 
> I am thinking that since I can only get plugs of Bermuda I might start with my sidewalk strips, and if they do well, each year pull plugs from the strips (and order some) to transplant into other areas of the yard.
> 
> 
> 
> You should take a look at Tahoma instead of Latittude 36. It's the newest variety out from Oklahoma State, who also bred Lat36, and has done substantially better in the winter kill studies across the northern end of the transition zone.
> 
> Check out page 118 of this document.
> 
> https://ntep.org/ntep/data/bg13/bg13_18-14f/bg13_18-14f.pdf
> 
> Also, here's the pertinent table from NTEP on winter kill ratings.
> 
> 
> 
> One other point, I would look at other options for a bluegrass blend. You can do better than HGT from a performance and value standpoint.
Click to expand...

I will check out the Tahoma to see if I can find seed/plugs. I will likely start with my sidewalk strips to see how I like it before I put it into the larger yard section.

Any particular blue grass you would reccomend? I was looking at the HGT due to the color supposed to better match the Bermuda, but I am open to better culitvars to experiment with.


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## osuturfman

Tahoma is a much darker green than the Lat36 and Northbridge cultivars so you have more options on bluegrasses that match up. See below for some good performing KBG cultivars.

Bluebank
Blue Note
Hampton
Noble

Barvette is _the_ cultivar in HGT that makes it good. That said, they usually mix in two other Barenbrug cultivars, which are somewhere between average and not good, to fill in the bag. As you can see in the seed tag picture on Page 2 of this thread, their coated (Yellow Jacket) HGT blend has less than 20% Barvette.


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## dmouw

I did overseed the HGT this fall and my stand was not great. It is filling in somewhat and hopefully by spring i will have a full stand. My winter lawn has unfortunately taken a back seat to other projects and holiday travels.


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## Chris LI

I recalled seeing an article about bluemuda sportsfields I received in an email at work some time back, so I dug it up. Here is the link to the article about BMPs (Best Management Practices):

https://sportsturfonline.com/2018/07/24/best-management-practices-on-bluemuda-athletic-fields/9653/


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## NewLawnJon

osuturfman said:


> Tahoma is a much darker green than the Lat36 and Northbridge cultivars so you have more options on bluegrasses that match up. See below for some good performing KBG cultivars.
> 
> Bluebank
> Blue Note
> Hampton
> Noble
> 
> Barvette is _the_ cultivar in HGT that makes it good. That said, they usually mix in two other Barenbrug cultivars, which are somewhere between average and not good, to fill in the bag. As you can see in the seed tag picture on Page 2 of this thread, their coated (Yellow Jacket) HGT blend has less than 20% Barvette.


I reached out to Sod Production Services to see if they can point me to a location for plugs. From what I have seen it looks like they have an exclusive license on the Tahoma 31.

If I can get plugs in late April, early May I will experiment with about 1200 square feet of bluemuda over a year and if it works start converting the rest of the yard.


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## NewLawnJon

I found a distributor about 2 hours away who is willing to give me a few trays of Latitude 36 plugs to try out since they are intrigued by the attempt at bluemuda, so I might do that on one of my sidewalk strips and see what happens.

I have sent an e-mail to each sod grower listed as a Tahoma 31 grower to see about plugs. The closest grower to me is about 8 hours away, so we will see if I can get some plugs, otherwise I will look into pricing for a bit of sod and cut it up to make some plugs.


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## osuturfman

Fun fact: College Football National Championship Game is being played on bluemuda this Monday night in Santa Clara, CA.


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## NewLawnJon

osuturfman said:


> Fun fact: College Football National Championship Game is being played on bluemuda this Monday night in Santa Clara, CA.


It is sad that I am starting to watch sports just for the grass. 😂


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## Still learnin

&#129300;

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/alabama-football/a-week-away-from-cfp-title-game-levis-stadium-grass-looks-awful/


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## osuturfman

https://twitter.com/WestCoastTurf/status/1080322875771445248

They had the Redbox Bowl field stripped by 1 AM PST on Tuesday and had finished a complete re-sod by 5:30PST Tuesday.

And then they trolled the shit out of the guy who tweeted about the Redbox Field without checking first, which was awesome.


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## Green

NewLawnJon said:


> osuturfman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fun fact: College Football National Championship Game is being played on bluemuda this Monday night in Santa Clara, CA.
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that I am starting to watch sports just for the grass. 😂
Click to expand...

Wait...is that new Bluemuda sod going to be there a while, or just ripped up again after the game?


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## osuturfman

Green said:


> NewLawnJon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> osuturfman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fun fact: College Football National Championship Game is being played on bluemuda this Monday night in Santa Clara, CA.
> 
> 
> 
> It is sad that I am starting to watch sports just for the grass. 😂
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wait...is that new Bluemuda sod going to be there a while, or just ripped up again after the game?
Click to expand...

They will either replace the endzones and use the rest as is OR do a full replacement prior to the US Men's Soccer Friendly at the end of March. Then they have a Monster Truck event in the middle of April, so they'll definitely do a full replacement afterward ahead of the US Women's Soccer match there in early May. So at least one full replacement between now and summer, possibly two.


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## NewLawnJon

Some of us would love to have some of the grass for our yards that they just replace.


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## osuturfman

Here's how it's coming out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivFnZ3QlAxg


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## g-man

NewLawnJon said:


> Some of us would love to have some of the grass for our yards that they just replace.


Some of us would love to have their budget.


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## Chris LI

g-man said:


> NewLawnJon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some of us would love to have some of the grass for our yards that they just replace.
> 
> 
> 
> Some of us would love to have their budget.
Click to expand...

I second the motion. Last year I was very fortunate to be invited to a field day with the head groundskeeper at Yankee Stadium. I learned a lot and was astounded to find out that they throw away 22k sq ft of sod after every MLS game or concert they host (they cover the infield with thin cut sod with removable trays at.the edge of the infield). He told us that they tried to give away the sod after the event one time...the last time. No good deed goes unpunished. Now it just goes into a roll-off dumpster. What a waste!


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## Green

osuturfman said:


> They will either replace the endzones and use the rest as is OR do a full replacement prior to the US Men's Soccer Friendly at the end of March. Then they have a Monster Truck event in the middle of April, so they'll definitely do a full replacement afterward ahead of the US Women's Soccer match there in early May. So at least one full replacement between now and summer, possibly two.


So then, what's the point of Bluemuda if it's not going to be there for all 4 seasons?


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## osuturfman

Green said:


> osuturfman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They will either replace the endzones and use the rest as is OR do a full replacement prior to the US Men's Soccer Friendly at the end of March. Then they have a Monster Truck event in the middle of April, so they'll definitely do a full replacement afterward ahead of the US Women's Soccer match there in early May. So at least one full replacement between now and summer, possibly two.
> 
> 
> 
> So then, what's the point of Bluemuda if it's not going to be there for all 4 seasons?
Click to expand...

Stability - The bermuda and its stolons produce a mat and thatch layer that provides a great playing surface. Couple that with the rhizomes of KBG and you have the densest and stable natural surface out there. This is of particular importance when installing thick-cut sod six days before one of the most important football games of the year.

Playability - Thick-cut bluegrass probably would have done well but, I don't believe they have used 100% cool season at Levi's Stadium yet. So if KBG is out, you're looking at using ryegrass overseeded bermuda (like the Rose Bowl used to) which has a tendency to play "slick". KBG and bermuda together provides arguably the most playable surface right out of the gate.

The bottom line is, the whole bluemuda thing is so new, no one really knows what the hell they are doing. It's a great combo in theory and in practice. That said, it's going to take people pushing extremes to see how adaptable and valuable the combo can be from professional turf to home lawns. Tomorrow night is an example of one of those extremes and hopefully, we'll be able to learn from it.


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## NewLawnJon

Green said:


> osuturfman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They will either replace the endzones and use the rest as is OR do a full replacement prior to the US Men's Soccer Friendly at the end of March. Then they have a Monster Truck event in the middle of April, so they'll definitely do a full replacement afterward ahead of the US Women's Soccer match there in early May. So at least one full replacement between now and summer, possibly two.
> 
> 
> 
> So then, what's the point of Bluemuda if it's not going to be there for all 4 seasons?
Click to expand...

I have seen bluemuda used year round in the Kansas City area for sports fields. For them the advantage is that in the summer time the Bermuda does well, and for spring and fall the KBG does well, creating a playing surface that does well through tall the seasons, and with two invasive species they seem to keep each other in balance.

This is kind of my hope for my lawn is to be able to have something that is more resistant to the droughts and heat we have in the summer, without sacrificing the spring green up, and keeping it green later into the fall.


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## NewLawnJon

Green said:


> osuturfman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They will either replace the endzones and use the rest as is OR do a full replacement prior to the US Men's Soccer Friendly at the end of March. Then they have a Monster Truck event in the middle of April, so they'll definitely do a full replacement afterward ahead of the US Women's Soccer match there in early May. So at least one full replacement between now and summer, possibly two.
> 
> 
> 
> So then, what's the point of Bluemuda if it's not going to be there for all 4 seasons?
Click to expand...

I have seen bluemuda used year round in the Kansas City area for sports fields. For them the advantage is that in the summer time the Bermuda does well, and for spring and fall the KBG does well, creating a playing surface that does well through tall the seasons, and with two invasive species they seem to keep each other in balance.

This is kind of my hope for my lawn is to be able to have something that is more resistant to the droughts and heat we have in the summer, without sacrificing the spring green up, and keeping it green later into the fall.


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## osuturfman

Good article on the field.

https://www.desertsun.com/story/sports/football/2019/01/06/palm-deserts-west-coast-turf-installs-new-field-college-playoff-game/2486903002/?fbclid=IwAR2N1Dm6kVKQjsEh1-IQw9knuDOtL8dQpTHwtH-NKXWjBBW0tYRiA5vSpno


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## dmouw

osuturfman said:


> Fun fact: College Football National Championship Game is being played on bluemuda this Monday night in Santa Clara, CA.


from the articles posted it looks like its berumda overseeded with PRG not KBG.


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## osuturfman

dmouw said:


> osuturfman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fun fact: College Football National Championship Game is being played on bluemuda this Monday night in Santa Clara, CA.
> 
> 
> 
> from the articles posted it looks like its berumda overseeded with PRG not KBG.
Click to expand...

I saw a tweet from Mountain View Seeds (high-end stuff) that they provided the KBG seed for this field. I'll see if I can find out for sure.


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## Green

osuturfman said:


> dmouw said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> osuturfman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fun fact: College Football National Championship Game is being played on bluemuda this Monday night in Santa Clara, CA.
> 
> 
> 
> from the articles posted it looks like its berumda overseeded with PRG not KBG.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw a tweet from Mountain View Seeds (high-end stuff) that they provided the KBG seed for this field. I'll see if I can find out for sure.
Click to expand...

@osuturfman, are you saying Mountainview is all "high-end stuff"? I've used their Firecracker LS/SLS and Titanium 2LS extensively at home.


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## osuturfman

https://twitter.com/MtnView_Seeds/status/1073462592260136961

Same stuff they used at the Rose Bowl. West Coast Turf is calling it "proprietary" but, it's bluemuda.


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## osuturfman

Green said:


> osuturfman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dmouw said:
> 
> 
> 
> from the articles posted it looks like its berumda overseeded with PRG not KBG.
> 
> 
> 
> I saw a tweet from Mountain View Seeds (high-end stuff) that they provided the KBG seed for this field. I'll see if I can find out for sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @osuturfman, are you saying Mountainview is all "high-end stuff"? I've used their Firecracker LS/SLS and Titanium 2LS extensively at home.
Click to expand...

Everyone sells dogs because they have to but, Mountain View has some very good stuff on the top shelf.


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## Eastern NC

I am going to start off by saying I am new to the forum and this is my first post, and my first home so don't roast me. I unintentionally ordered bluemuda not knowing what I was doing. I got blackjack Bermuda and SPF30 bluegrass I am planting this spring. So I guess I will be the unofficial guinea pig. My thought process on this was between the two types of grass my yard will be green most of the year.


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## Suburban Jungle Life

@Eastern NC Would it be best to plant them at different times of the year? Plant the bermuda this spring and in early fall, maybe put down a light coat of glyphosate to stunt the bermuda and then plant the bluegrass in the fall? I think if you plant both this spring, it'll probably be mostly bermuda.


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## Eastern NC

I think you are right on on the planting times. The funny thing is I thought I did my research on this before I bought all the seed. Then I researched mixing the 2 different types of grass, and come to find out it is a highly contraversial subject in the turf/lawn world. Lol


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## j4c11

I'm not sure how these folks are making it work, there's probably more to the story. I have bluegrass and after bermuda rears its ugly head in the summer I'm left with gaps in the fall where bermuda used to be. Granted, the bluegrass does fill them in after a while, but they don't really produce a homogeneous mix in the summer. I'm thinking that maybe if your height of cut is reel low bermuda would have a tougher time shading and crowding out the bluegrass.


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## Rile78

I live near the University of Kentucky and have been using their Turf Science online resources for years now. Their department chair is one of the lead guys on the Bluemuda trials and if you read all of what they've done it's amazing. I've been fighting a bermuda invasion in my fescue lawn for 4 years but as their trials progress on bluemuda I really want to make the switch. Granted they are focused on sports fields but the man do they look amazing. If you go on Twitter search for #Bluemuda...all kinds of info. Here is the link to the universities page: HTTP://www.uky.edu/Ag/ukturf/pros.html.


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## NewLawnJon

I will be doing Bermuda plugs this spring, and using tenacity to control the weeds. In the late summer I plan on over seeding with Kentucky Bluegrass.

I don't really see this process as being controversial as much as it is unconventional having an invasive warm and cool season grass. The hardest part is having to varieties that are of similar color and texture so that they blend together well.


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## dmouw

Here's my Bluemuda lawn as of 2/23/19. I planted the kbg sept/oct and it took all winter to take and fill in. I still have some brown patching. It finally dried up some and is warming up I was able to mow twice last week. I will know real soon here how the Bermuda starts coming back or not.


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## Chris LI

dmouw said:


> Here's my Bluemuda lawn as of 2/23/19. I planted the kbg sept/oct and it took all winter to take and fill in. I still have some brown patching. It finally dried up some and is warming up I was able to mow twice last week. I will know real soon here how the Bermuda starts coming back or not.


Assuming the Bermuda comes back, do you think that it would overtake the KBG? If so, do you plan on timing your fertilizer to benefit the KBG stronger growth periods (spring/fall) and avoid summer apps which might benefit the Bermuda? I'm just curious. I have no experience with this kind of animal.


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## dmouw

I don't either. My plan is to just spoon feed it and see what happens. I'm hoping to install a fertigation system..... hoping but we'll see.


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## NewLawnJon

@osuturfman If I am establishing Tahoma by sprigging it in June would it make sense to also seed the KBG at the same time if I have irrigation?


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## FuzzeWuzze

Pete1313 said:


> zeus201 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You could overseed the KBG when the Bermuda is going dormant. I would love to see somebody try this and maintain it year round!
> 
> 
> 
> Good thought, perhaps I should not have dismissed the notion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I listen to alot of the TurfNet podcasts and would have never thought it was possible or would be successful until I heard about it there. Makes me almost want to move to the transition zone to try it.. almost.
Click to expand...

Aaaand...now my wife has yet another podcast i listen to in the commute to work to laugh at me for.
Her: What are you listening too today? 
Me: Oh about overseeding KBG into Bermuda grass.
Her: But we dont have bermuda grass in Oregon.
Me: Thats not the point.


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## Green

This stuff is so cool. @Ware, I hope we eventually see the day when a warm/cool season mix lawn journal section can be justified!


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## Pete1313

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Aaaand...now my wife has yet another podcast i listen to in the commute to work to laugh at me for.
> Her: What are you listening too today?
> Me: Oh about overseeding KBG into Bermuda grass.
> Her: But we dont have bermuda grass in Oregon.
> Me: Thats not the point.


 :lol: 
lots of good stuff at turfnet from podcasts to webinars. :thumbsup:


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## g-man

^ add the Cornell one too(Turftalk) and Ryan Knorr.


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## dmouw

I'm loving my Bluemuda. They are blending quite nice so far.


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## Pete1313

@dmouw, that bluemuda is looking really good!


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## Green

Whoa! Someone is actually doing it on here, and rocking it!


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## drenglish

@dmouw That is looking really nice. Do you have a journal of getting this lawn established? Great job.


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## Still learnin

drenglish said:


> @dmouw That is looking really nice. Do you have a journal of getting this lawn established? Great job.


I'd love to see a journal on the journey to get there. It looks great. I think it's giving a lot of people ideas!


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## Darrell_KC

@dmouw

Hey Dmouw, what strain of bluegrass/bermuda did you go with? Was this all from seed? What are your temps like right now? That lawn looks outstanding. Considering my backyard is mostly bare, and gets heavy traffic from the dogs, Im very curious if I might be able to get this established.


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## dmouw

dmouw said:


>


So I did a complete yard Reno in 2016 and hydroseeded the Bermuda in Aug. I wanted to do the kbg then but couldn't find much on it at that time. In 2018 I had a horrible transition from from my winter rye to summer Bermuda lawn so I started reading about blumuda again. I overseeded my Bermuda with the HGT Turf Blue in September of 2018 at about 4lbs to the 1,000sqft. It took till feb to finally fill in. My Bermuda had now kicked in and they are looking good together. I do still worry what the summer heat will do so I'm not trying to get too excited yet. I am defiantly not an expert just a little of trial and error. Reading and listening to what Brian Winka has put out there has been My main guide.


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## dmouw

dmouw said:


>


So I did a complete yard Reno in 2016 and hydroseeded the Bermuda in Aug. I wanted to do the kbg then but couldn't find much on it at that time. In 2018 I had a horrible transition from from my winter rye to summer Bermuda lawn so I started reading about blumuda again. I overseeded my Bermuda with the HGT True Blue in September of 2018 at about 4lbs to the 1,000sqft. It took till feb to finally fill in. My Bermuda had now kicked in and they are looking good together. I do still worry what the summer heat will do so I'm not trying to get too excited yet. I am defiantly not an expert just a little of trial and error. Reading and listening to what Brian Winka has put out there has been My main guide.


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## Darrell_KC

Excellent, thank you! I emailed Brian yesterday, and he replied with a couple of suggestions for seed. He did mention the HGT, that seems to be the stuff most recommended for the bluegrass portion.

I am getting pricing information together, but i really think this could be a good backyard project and then see how it comes out before going with the front yard.


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## dmouw

I'm going to start a lawn journal and try and give a more in-depth step by step with pictures


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## Still learnin

dmouw said:


> I'm going to start a lawn journal and try and give a more in-depth step by step with pictures


Can't wait to see it. I'm jealous!


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## dmouw

@@DC3 @Reel Low Dad


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## Reel Low Dad

@dmouw awesome. Can't wait to see how this goes. This has been on my mind for well over a year now.


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## NoslracNevok

@dmouw How are things going with this reno?


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## Darrell_KC

I gave the bluemuda a try, but I had too many issues with mine. I believe a good portion of this was unintentionally self inflicted. I planted the Bluemuda towards the end of March/early April, but what ended up happening was the bluegrass grew fast and ended up shading out the bermuda seedlings. The bermuda never had a fair fight planting that early and coming in very slow. Areas that were bermuda only planted well, and areas that were blue grass only also did well. I planted a few test zones to see what would happen, and how they would work independently as well as together.

In my own experiences, I decided to just stick with Yukon and ended up nuking everything. I picked the bermuda because it not only grew in the back, it was thriving and thats the area the dogs get the most wear and tear on. I had shading concerns due to the house shade in the backyard. It gets at least 6 hours of sun, but the bermuda just kept on spreading. The KBG for me is a little too high maintenance. Once the heat hit, it shriveled up quickly unless i hit it with a lot of water. I know thats the nature of the beast, but I prefer low maintenance. I think it would work fine had I started it properly


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## dmouw

I'm having similar stuff as @Darrell_KC . I have a shade area where the KBG is doing well but everywhere else it's burning out. I am curious to see what comes back with cooler weather. when I did a sand level on my lawn earlier summer the KBG came back stronger than the Bermuda but after 2-3 weeks when the heat kicked back in it tapered off. I know I will have transitions depending on the seasons, my only problem is its been big patches that die off then takes a bit for the Bermuda to fill in. I loved the color the KBG gave so I think I will try and overseed this fall again and see how if I can get some more established. If it dies out again I'm not worried I'll spray it back and switch back to overseeding with Rye.


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## NewLawnJon

Reading the experience of people in warmer climates than me it makes me think in Iowa the biggest issue I would have would be the very limited window where the Bermuda is actively growing and spreading. From the growth potential I have been tracking so far this year we have only had a couple weeks where the KBG would die back and the Bermuda would fill in.

Anyone doing this having issues with the limited number of weed preventative that can be done with seeding?


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## Darrell_KC

@NewLawnJon I will say I didnt have too many issues with weeds during the grow in phase. I dont know if I got lucky or if it was because of how fast the KBG sprang up. For me, I used 24-D and spot sprayed the broadleaf weeds and just tried picking out nutsedge as it sprang up. The KBG seemed to cover the ground pretty fast which i think stopped a good amount of weeds from taking over


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## lucas287

@dmouw can we get an update with some pics on how your bluemuda yard is doing? Thanks!


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## dmouw

My KBG has been slowly fading out and now the lawn seems to be just a Bermuda lawn. I don't know how much is going to come back when it stats cooling down but I plan on overseeding the KBG in again come fall and give it another try.

I did have to do a bit of a summer reset last week and scalp/dethatch. i ran my power rake one directions and dropped the reel a few notches. I need to get a veticutter reel for my power rake so it doesn't beat it up so much and i can run it more often. I will try and get some pictures soon, I want it to green up a bit more because right now it looks a bit rough.


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## lucas287

Thanks for the update! Would you say it was a smooth transition to bermuda? or did the the kbg die out leaving patches for the bermuda to fill in? I'm going to be trying this on my back yard this year. Just order 10 pounds of Turf Blue HGT from Sod Solutions. Aiming for 4 lbs/M.

Damn - it's hot in Fresno! Most of my backyard is shaded too with only a few areas getting more than 8 hours of sun. I think kbg would fair better in my situation. I just have WAY more humidity than you do!


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## dmouw

Yes I did have die off and patchy fill in which I expected but I thought it would be all in the month of May or June when the heat hit but it did not go that way. It has been a spot here then a thinning area there kinda all summer. Next year my goal is to Verticut on a more regular schedule and do more soil amendments/spoon feeding N. I have been somewhat distracted this summer building my sprayer so I'll be able to do more humics and small doses of N in the future.


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## _Gus_

Me on here!!!


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## dmouw

Here are a couple of pics from this week. Slowly recovering from the summer reset.


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## Bigdrumnc

So I am resurfacing this thread! Excellent read. For those of you who are doing bluemeuda....what is your fertility plan? Do you feed in the fall like a bluegrass lawn? It seems to me the new blue grass needs to be fed when the Bermuda is going to sleep. I have a friend doing bluemuda right now in eastern nc! For those that are doing it can you share your fert plans?


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## Mdjamesd

Pete with GCI turf is doing a bluemuda test plot at his shop. Search him on youtube.

He planted the bermuda this past summer. Overseeded half with rye and half with kbg.


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