# Need suggestions with new flower beds and drainage



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

So I have a few issues. The north side of my house does not get enough sun for my bermuda to grow. So I want to just put flowerbeds in.

To give a visual. The following picture was ~8AM in the morning.



By 11AM it looks like this...



I am wanting to put in a flower bed *roughly* like this. I actually might expand it slightly more (2-3 more feet out).



This would seem easy enough...however...this area stays wet all the time, more so near that jut out of the house. The AC drainage line is there, it doesn't get any sun, and I don't feel it drains all that well away from the house.

So the question is, how do I properly build a flowerbed where plants won't die from root rot? Should I just bring in some dirt and build it up 2-3 inches and then put mulch on top of that? Should I get a sod cutter, cut up all the bermuda, then fill it in with dirt to build it up again 2-3 in. above the current sod (e.g. just more dirt if I wasn't going to cut up the sod)? Can someone walk me through what they would do?

Now for the second issue, which is kind of related...if you spin around 180 degrees from where the above pictures were taken you will see my second issue...

these pictures were taken during a downpour, but you can see from the following pictures where water flows out towards the drainage ditch.

This picture you can see water down near the fence running towards the drainage ditch.



This is a better picture of the water.



Now this area WILL eventually completely drain, and no standing water will be there 24 hours after a rain. However, that area near the fence will be effectively saturated and super wet, with moss, and algae. I don't think I would need to add a ton of extra drainage, but something to get the moisture out.

So looking at this issue separately what could I do to get this water out of the area? Would a french drain along the fence line work? Any solutions that won't completely destroy my lawn? Now the question is...should I be looking at these drainage issues the one near the house and the one near the fence in conjunction with each other? (e.g. should I install a french drain from within the area near the house, to connect to a french drain going down the fence?)

Any input/suggestions would be appreciated.


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

You could try using Penterra to improve drainage along the fence. If that doesn't work and a more physical intervention is needed, I would dig a french drain connected to a couple catch basins placed along the fence (to capture both surface and subsurface water). Put catch basins in front of the downspouts to catch roof runoff, then tie those into the french drain. Then I'd run that pipe all the way out to the street (ideally through a curb hole).

I'm actually doing exactly what you're thinking with landscape beds right now (getting 6yd of mulch delivered tomorrow/Friday). It'll help both with shadiness right next to the house as well as make mowing easier (don't need to trim right up to the house).


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@adgattoni

Thanks. What is the Penterra? Is that like the N-EXT products like RGS from GCI? I'm not familiar with "wetting agents" which is what this looks like.

Do you think I would need to raise the area next to the house with dirt or will jist digging a french drain fix it?

I'm homestly nervous about installing a french drain because if I screw up the slope, i'll have a bigger problem on my hands. How easy is it to screw up?

Instead of running it to the road I would run it back towards the drainage ditch.


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

I personally don't like to mix surface drains( tight line) and french drains. They are meant for different purposes. If you have a surface water problem (which you do) stick to surface drains and a tight line (sealed tube) with a daylight exit. Get on Youtube and check out Apple Drains they have some good videos on drainage projects.


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

kur1j said:


> @adgattoni
> 
> Thanks. What is the Penterra? Is that like the N-EXT products like RGS from GCI? I'm not familiar with "wetting agents" which is what this looks like.
> 
> ...


Penterra is a "soil penetrant" type of wetting agent. It lets water seep into the soil easier. There are some really cool pictures of how it works in the wetting agents thread.

Based on the pictures it looks like the water does have some natural fall towards the fence so you shouldn't need to build up the area near your house. I don't think it's too difficult of a project. Put a stake in the ground on each end of the trench, then tie a string to each stake. Get a string level and make sure it's level, then you can use a tape measure to measure the amount of fall along the trench (i.e., your measurement from the string to the bottom of the trench should increase as you walk from the high to the low side).

Does your drainage ditch move the water elsewhere? That's why I thought running it to the street would be better, but if it's a swale that takes the water somewhere else in the neighborhood you should be good.


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## N LA Hacker (Aug 17, 2018)

Use hydrangea and/or azaleas for your bushes in that shady spot. Hydrangea like it wet.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@adgattoni

Thanks I'll look that up about the wetting agents.



Water flows right to left in the below picture. The left side of the picture is a single low spot that water collects in.



Here are a couple pictures of the drainage ditch. The ditch leads down to a city drainage system about 2 houses down.

I've got another drainage issue at the very corner (opposite side) of this issue in the drainage ditch. You can't see it really in the picture but it's a low spot in the drainage ditch that water will sit in (its in the picture that doesn't have the fence in it). I was planning on just adding sand to the low spot and see if that fixes it. Not sure how else to handle it since part of it isn't on my property.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

N LA Hacker said:


> Use hydrangea and/or azaleas for your bushes in that shady spot. Hydrangea like it wet.


Thanks. We have a list of plants that we are planning on using in the area and hydrangeas and azaleas are on the list. I'm not a huge fan of Hydrangeas as they just look like sticks and messy in the winter, was wanting to try some evergreen type plants.

Here is our current list of what we are looking at. Not saying we are putting them all in, just a list of what we have found that people recommend that will live in shady areas.

Hellebores
Astilbe
Begonia
Hosta
Ferns
Liatris
Brunnera
Epimediums
Hardy Geraniums 
Heuchera
Lamiastrum
Hydrangea


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@adgattoni

I've been researching about doing a french drain. Everything I see people dig out a 12-18" deep hole and then basically fill it up with the pipe, the canvas material and then fill the rest of it up with gravel and then put the sod back on top of that.

Putting 1-3 of sod on top of the gravel, would that not cause problems for the grass to grow on the gravel?


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

kur1j said:


> @adgattoni
> 
> I've been researching about doing a french drain. Everything I see people dig out a 12-18" deep hole and then basically fill it up with the pipe, the canvas material and then fill the rest of it up with gravel and then put the sod back on top of that.
> 
> Putting 1-3 of sod on top of the gravel, would that not cause problems for the grass to grow on the gravel?


I don't really know to be honest. "THE FRENCH DRAIN MAN" channel on YouTube does it this way and presumably it doesn't affect the turf, but I've seen others put more dirt back on top of the french drain.

@high leverage's recommendation wouldn't require a bunch of gravel FYI. If you use catch basins and solid pipe (no perforations), you wouldn't need to encase the pipe with landscape fabric or backfill with a bunch of gravel. Just set the pipe to grade and cover it with dirt.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@adgattoni

Thanks for the response. Yeah those are the videos I was talking about. So I might be going your original suggestion and trying air8/wetting agents first.

I actually asked this question on last nights TGF youtube and Matt (and Chris Voit) basically said that using something like air8 to get the water in the soil instead of trenching a french drain might work better. He basically said that a french drain is a crapshoot and that it sometimes works great other times not so much. So he recommended me try to use air8 and see if that helps first.

I placed an order for air8, rgs, humic12 and going to place an order for some of the wetting agents you recommended (Penterra). Also going to get the 
tournament ready pellets and gun.

Any recommendations on which to start with!

If none of that fixes it...then I'll have to consider another solution (e.g. french drain).


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

kur1j said:


> @adgattoni
> 
> Thanks for the response. Yeah those are the videos I was talking about. So I might be going your original suggestion and trying air8/wetting agents first.
> 
> ...


I have the most confidence with Penterra for your problem spot. It's designed to move water down into the soil, whereas tournament ready is more of a water "holder" even though it will help the soil accept more water as well. This year I'm planning to use Penterra on the swales (better drainage) and the TR pellets on dry spots in other parts of the yard.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@adgattoni

I just ordered the Penterra. Too bad they they don't ship in larger quantities besides small and "massive" quanities. Haha. I'm ordering the TR pellets right now actually.


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