# Struggling with new lawn



## Knox1995 (Jun 25, 2018)

I recently purchased a new home and have about 1/2 acre (25,000) sq ft lawn. The lawn is mostly Bermuda, however, there is some fine fescue in the shaded areas. The lawn is very thin and only about 40 percent is Bermuda. The rest consists of weeds and bare spots.

I had a large about of clover and broadleaf weeds and sprayed them about 3 weeks ago with 2,4D. This killed most of the weeds, but another problem has come up. Almost all the bare spots and the areas previously covered with broadleaf weeds is now sprouting crabgrass. It has literally come up overnight and is now covering a large portion of the lawn.

My guess is that the absence of the broadleaf weeds has allowed area for the crabgrass to come in. I don't have much Bermuda and am looking for some advice.

What would you guys suggest for dealing with the issue this time of year? Should I try to kill it, wait until the fall and spring and start a preemergent strategy? I'm totally at a loss. The broadleaf weeds looked better than what I have now.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated!


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Put down a pre-em of dithiopyr or prodiamine, spray quinclorac, put down fert.


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## Knox1995 (Jun 25, 2018)

Thank you! Do I need to wait any time between the spraying and putting down the fertilizer? Another question, I haven't done a soil test at all. What fert would you recommend to get the Bermuda going? Something like a starter fert? Or might it be possible to put down a weed and feed to get some preemerg down and fert at the same time?


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## Durso81 (Apr 10, 2018)

If it was me I would spray the crabgrass with quincloroac mixed with a surfactant. Fertilize weekly, water, mow,mow ,mow and mow as low as you can. There is still allot of growing season left for the Bermuda to fill in. Then in September put my pre-emergant down for the winter and again in the spring.


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## Knox1995 (Jun 25, 2018)

Thank you for all the advice! I will order the quinclorac tomorrow.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Keep in mind, it's gojng to look worse before it looks better, just to manage expectations.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Granular pre-em with no nitrogen, such as a 0-0-7 with either prodiamine or dithiopyr. That way you can use it year round.

For fertlizer, fast release is cheaper but needs to be watered in or timed with rain.

I would highly suggest you read the Bermuda bible before doing anything.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1651


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## rhanna (Jun 7, 2017)

Knox1995 said:


> Thank you for all the advice! I will order the quinclorac tomorrow.


Be careful with quinclorac and high temps, read the label. I think many on here turn to Celsius at this point in the year.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

rhanna said:


> Knox1995 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for all the advice! I will order the quinclorac tomorrow.
> ...


If it wasn't for the fine rescue he stated, I would have suggested Celsius.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Before you do anything you need to decide what type of grass you want. Either cool season grass like tall fescue or a warm season grass like bermuda.
Before we can help we need to know how many trees you have in your lawn and how much shade does your lot have. Pictures are best.
It may not be to your advantage to have a bermuda lawn if you have a lot of trees or if the area is shaded.
I would do that first before doing anything else.
You live in a transition zone so you can be successful with both grass types.
The bermuda you have now is more than likely common bermuda. Which is fine. However i would encourage you to do some research on the other bermuda types. A lot of varieties will give you a darker green carpet like quality. With a large lawn (like me) sodding that much would be expensive. ($16K in nashville) The main seeded varietyies i would look at would be 1)Riviera 2)Yukon 3)Princess 77
Do you have irrigation?
Before you buy anything you need a game plan on what you want to accomplish. Why fertilize a grass you may want to kill 1 month later? Why kill off everything now if you are going to plant tall fescue in the fall.
Why apply pre emergent if your going to seed bermuda in July?


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## Knox1995 (Jun 25, 2018)

It's currently poring down rain and I don't have any good pictures of the lawn. I will attach what I have for some reference. I have several areas that are shaded either by trees, the trees surrounding my property or the house itself. There is some fine fescue growing in these areas, but not much. The Bermuda that I do have is sparse in most areas. I don't have a ton of money I'm willing to spend on the lawn right now (as in total renovation), but would like to at least start some work on it.

My original thought was to go with Bermuda as the main lawn type. I know it won't grow in the shaded areas, but I don't have an irrigation system to water in and maintain a fescue lawn. I also was hoping that the Bermuda would fill in mostly on its own and then I would just have to find an option to deal with the shaded areas.

If you think this is the wrong type of plan let me know. I'm totally open to suggestions. I'm not sure if there is another option I haven't considered or that would be better. It's safe to say that 60 percent of the lawn gets full sun, 20 percent is partial shade and 20 percent is almost full shade.

I really appreciate all the advice so far!!!!! The photos kind of show what I'm working with.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

I understand. With budget constraints I would probably consider a bag of Bermuda seed from Lowe's or such. You have large areas of no bermuda and it will take a while for those to fill in. You could use a pro plugger if you want. And if you have already used a preemergent that would be your only option.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Knox1995 said:


> It's currently poring down rain and I don't have any good pictures of the lawn. I will attach what I have for some reference. I have several areas that are shaded either by trees, the trees surrounding my property or the house itself. There is some fine fescue growing in these areas, but not much. The Bermuda that I do have is sparse in most areas. I don't have a ton of money I'm willing to spend on the lawn right now (as in total renovation), but would like to at least start some work on it.
> 
> My original thought was to go with Bermuda as the main lawn type. I know it won't grow in the shaded areas, but I don't have an irrigation system to water in and maintain a fescue lawn. I also was hoping that the Bermuda would fill in mostly on its own and then I would just have to find an option to deal with the shaded areas.
> 
> ...


In theory anyway, sounds like a good plan. The bermuda should fill in to the extent of its shade tolerance. The fescue may do ok in shade even without supplemental water, to the extent it's not complete zero sun shade, and it gets some rain. It also won't spread. I've grown some TTTF in some pretty shady spots and while I won't say it thrives, it does survive.

I'll defer to the bermuda guys on how to make bermuda grow. I spend a lot of time trying to stop it from growing.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

I'll be the guy who says you should smoke the whole thing, and reseed with the best quality seed that you can afford. Live with the crabgrass for now, until you develop your plan. @Tellycoleman gave you solid advice as to waiting to put down your PreM (Dimension/Dithiopyr), as I would also advise you to wait. Telly did a renovation on his yard with Yukon last year, and I'm sure he'd be willing to lend a hand since he's got a good size of land left to renovate. :lol:

1. Buy the best seed you can afford. If you're going to go with Riviera/Yukon/Princess 77, don't put down something from Lowe's, which will be an inferior seed compared to the 3 cultivars listed.
2. DO NOT TILL, DO NOT TILL, DO NOT TILL.
3. If you're going to renovate, you're really pushing the limits as far as having enough time in the growing season for new seed to establish, store enough energy to last through the winter, and come back to have a yard next Spring. @J_nick mentioned in his renovation post that the latest he wanted to wait to seed was June 15th. After my renovation last year, I would agree, as I only had about 40% survive the winter. My yard still has some bare spots, but not nearly as many as I would have had if I would have timed my renovation properly. To be honest, this is the least expensive option... just deal with the weeds, put out a PreM for the Winter, and renovate next Spring.

Growing grass (especially Bermuda) is the easy thing. Taking the time to prepare, know what you're getting into and following solid advice from people who have renovated, and are renovating is going to be the best investment of your time and resources, and WILL save you time and money in the long run.

BTW, welcome to TLF, glad to have you here! :thumbup:


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> J_nick mentioned in his renovation post that the latest he wanted to wait to seed was June 15th.


If using a cold hardy cultivar like Riviera or Yukon *July* 15th is the last recommended seeding date.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

What about buying a pallet of tifgrand or Tiftuf and plugging the area? You clearly have a light shortage so you need something shade tolerant. Plugs don't require the same water as sprigs. Bermuda will spread and run. Celebration would also be a contender.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

:thumbup:


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## Knox1995 (Jun 25, 2018)

I'll have to look into the sod you are talking about. It may be an option for me. At this point, I'm just looking to get the crabgrass gone. I really don't care what the lawn looks like after that. It will eventually get better. The crabgrass is going to take over the whole yard soon.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Knox1995 said:


> I'll have to look into the sod you are talking about. It may be an option for me. At this point, I'm just looking to get the crabgrass gone. I really don't care what the lawn looks like after that. It will eventually get better. The crabgrass is going to take over the whole yard soon.


Is quinclorac with MSO an option for bermuda? Works well in cool season turf depending on crabgrass tiller stage. I promise to stop replying in warm season after this. All I do with bermuda is try to kill it.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Delmarva Keith said:


> Knox1995 said:
> 
> 
> > I'll have to look into the sod you are talking about. It may be an option for me. At this point, I'm just looking to get the crabgrass gone. I really don't care what the lawn looks like after that. It will eventually get better. The crabgrass is going to take over the whole yard soon.
> ...


This time of the year, anywhere in the trans zone is likely to be well above the temps recommended for spraying QC, let alone adding MSO.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Knox1995- welcome to the forum. It's good to see another East tennesseean on here. Good luck with your project. There are several Knoxville residents you might be able to pose some questions to. @Fistertondeluxe @Thor865 and @thegrassfactor are all in Knox Vegas and have Bermuda lawns.


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## Reel Low Dad (Jun 1, 2017)

I can hook you up with some quinclorac if you haven't already bought some. I have plenty to spare. Also have plenty of prodiamine I can spare as well. I will be happy to give you some since you mentioned budget. Would rather you spend your money on a good quality seed.


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