# Bermuda maintenance for those who want a B+ lawn on a budget



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

Hi all,

Next year will mark my first attempt at growing a bermuda lawn. Our house will likely be completed in the winter and sodded (in the front) and seeded (in the back) with bermuda. I want to have a quality lawn, as weed free as possible, but am not looking to win contests. (Well, maybe against the neighbors, but not against the amazing work of some on this site).

The kicker is I don't want to spend a lot of money on chemicals and equipment, and I don't want to have to mow every other day. So my thought is to keep the HOC a little higher and the fertilizer a little lower so that I don't have to invest in things like PGR. Maybe a HOC of 1.5" or so, maintained with a manual reel mower like the Fiskars StaySharp, and mowed no more than 2x per week.

Will I be able to do that, keep a good-looking lawn, and do it on a reasonable budget?


----------



## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Just a suggestion....skip the seeds and sprig bermuda in the back yard instead. Establishment will be faster and get you to a great lawn quicker. Plus depending on Sqft to cover its really not that expensive compared to quality bermuda seed cost.


----------



## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

Yes, I think your plan will work perfectly. I've done basically what you are proposing. I planted Monaco this year and have used a Fiskars at anywhere from 1" to 1.5" -- the higher because of the absurd drought that hit after I planted. I'm still very happy with it and it's clearly better than the common bermuda yards around here, even the weed-free ones that are maintained by the professional companies. The higher-quality variety of seed and the use of a reel mower makes a huge difference.

This isn't an all-or-nothing endeavor -- you can put as much effort and money and time into it as you want. Even what some would consider a "halfway" effort will look great compared to the average lawn.


----------



## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

I can say that most reviewers put the Earthwise 7 blade ahead of the Fiskars reel when it came to bermuda grass. I have one myself. More blades is better for lower grass, and it helps that it is cheaper too. It also has a roller on the back instead of just wheels so less likely to scalp. The other equipment you should spend the money on is a backpack sprayer. Trust me, no one has ever gone from a hand can to a backpack sprayer and then been like - well, that's not any better. It is night and day difference. I read a zillion reviews (I overthink things) and got the Rural King 4 gallon and love it more than my children some days. Such a difference. Oh, and get a spreader, but you can find those for cheap on facebook marketplace, craigslist, etc. I have a drop spreader I got for $15 that is normally $50. And it works way better than the new one I bought that was $40 - that one I returned.

And let me say, i hear you on the under achiever lawn thing, lol! That said, honestly, IF you can spring for some chemicals up front they aren't that expensive over time. PGR you can buy in smaller quantities in the marketplace here on this forum, and it REALLY does great things for the grass - not just less mowing but studies show it makes the grass healthier and more drought tolerant. I let mine come out of regulation and ever since I've been dealing with drought stress and fungus - I really regret missing that application! So I'd try to budget for a bottle of that - just a split from someone on the forum.

Weed control again you can get split bottles here - Celsius is worth it, especially in the heat. I did play fast and loose and go with Dismiss instead of Certainty, despite the heat, and did okay. I'd HIGHLY suggest getting some Quicksilver for that backyard - you can use it very early on after seeding/sprigging - sooner than other things - and weed pressure is no joke when seeding summer lawns. i tried to go without it and I am STILL regretting it months later. I have major bare spots I'm filling in now because they got taken over by weeds and crowded out the grass. By the time I finally sprayed and killed the darned weeds the bare spots were gigantic. Had I done it right away I could have avoided that. You can buy small amounts of quicksilver on amazon as it is pricey in the normal quantities.

Fertilizer is easy to go cheap on. Generic is fine. Do invest in a soil test (probably less than $20 at your state university or county extension office) so you know what the soil needs, then find something cheap and easy. I did spring for some XGRN 8-1-8 but may alternate that with a generic local 15-0-15 (I have high phosphorous already but need lots of potassium). The 15-0-15 is cheap and will work fine for my needs. Or when I seeded I again went with a cheap, all purpose 10-10-10 on greendoc's advice. Or if you want cheap per application but are okay with an up front cost you can get bags of urea or ammonium sulfate (depending on soil ph, etc) and potash and triple phosphate and mix your own custom fertilizer as needed. A 50 lb bag of 21-0-0 was $20 and will last me a long time, for instance. But as a newbie, if you are not looking to become a lawn geek mixing up stuff in the lawn and are not prone to way overthinking things like I am, just grab a bag of generic granular that fits what your soil test says you need. I will say the one brand name thing that is worth the price is FEature - it is a micronutrient supplement with chelated iron (only one that doesn't stain concrete)and that stuff will make your yard the greenest on the block and the micros will help balance out that generic bag of granular. Pick up a $10 or less paint mixer attachment for your drill and a 5 gallon bucket at the same time (for mixing it)

So my advice is, go cheap on the fertilizer, get the cheaper reel mower (earth wise), a mid range backpack sprayer, and then spend on the good herbicides, but look for smaller splits to get you going.

So needs:
Water
Fertilizer (cheap generic is fine and probably better than some pricey snake oil stuff *cough* super juice *cough*)
Mower
Backpack sprayer
edger/trimmer (I use a $30 manual rotary edge and a pair of long handled lawn shears but you can find gas ones on craigslist)
spreader
quicksilver for the seeded back yard (trust me - I can show you scary pictures of weeds in a seeded yard)
Celsius (split bottle)
Quinclorac (maybe?) split bottle or regular one - low annual limit so split is probably better idea if small yard
Herbicide for sedges - I use Dismiss because I have globe sedge, but there are other options including big box store depending on what you have
PreEmergent for front yard once it is rooted down, for backyard after filled in.Can get generic granular at big box store for cheap up front or look for a split of liquid on marketplace on this forum

Wants:
FEature
Kelp/Humic/etc


----------



## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Oh, and get good seed. I went with a highly rated one but no one had heard of it, and the company I bought it from - Outside Pride - never returns my emails/questions about it, etc. I regret that and wish I'd gotten a better known one from a better known company. Hancock is here in Florida and advised blackjack, local university advised Arden 15, either would have been better for me I think.


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

@ktgrok, Wow, thank you for all of that! This may be tricky and I may decide against it, but I intend to take an organic approach to soil development and fertilization. I also mean to use herbicides sparingly, but I don't oppose their use. So I will try to be strategic in what I use, when, and where. I may have to figure some of that out as I go!

I just looked into the Earthwise 7 blade and it does look like some cost savings may be in order! Would a 7 blade still be okay at 1", or would more blades be needed at that height?

@Chocolate Lab, thanks for the words of encouragement! I hope this time next year I'll have made a ton of progress. Every house will have a new lawn, so I won't be playing catch-up.

@HungrySoutherner, I thought about just asking the builder not to to seed unless it's the same bermuda as the front (I have no idea what either will be). Then I could sod/seed/sprig at a later date. I do want a usable back yard next Spring, though . . . how long would sprigging take to establish?


----------



## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

So the builder would be seeding the back? Not sure I'd like that as I'm guessing he'll use the cheapest common seed possible... or maybe you could let him do it and pay a little extra for the seed you want. (Maybe a better idea anyway to let him do the work.)

I will stand up for seeding, though. I had a nice looking lawn that was getting compliments in about five weeks, and that's with almost zero rain (maybe 0.2" total in six weeks). You're in a much wetter area so I think it would do even better there. I read where some say seeding is so difficult, but that hasn't been my experience. The hardest part is the initial ground prep (which you'd have to do anyway for sprigging, right?) and making sure your irrigation is automated so you don't accidentally let things get dry. But then you pretty much let nature take its course.

BTW -- I'm with you on going as organic as possible and keeping the chemicals to a minimum. That's what I've done, too.


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

Chocolate Lab said:


> So the builder would be seeding the back? Not sure I'd like that as I'm guessing he'll use the cheapest common seed possible... or maybe you could let him do it and pay a little extra for the seed you want. (Maybe a better idea anyway to let him do the work.)
> 
> I will stand up for seeding, though. I had a nice looking lawn that was getting compliments in about five weeks, and that's with almost zero rain (maybe 0.2" total in six weeks). You're in a much wetter area so I think it would do even better there. I read where some say seeding is so difficult, but that hasn't been my experience. The hardest part is the initial ground prep (which you'd have to do anyway for sprigging, right?) and making sure your irrigation is automated so you don't accidentally let things get dry. But then you pretty much let nature take its course.
> 
> BTW -- I'm with you on going as organic as possible and keeping the chemicals to a minimum. That's what I've done, too.


I have seeded new lawns a few times before (TTTF, though) and don't mind the process at all. So that part doesn't concern me. I'm more concerned about timing (house will be complete in December, so the back will be bare!) and what is seeded in the back vs sodded in the front. I'm just not sure I want common bermuda in the back if I have a hybrid in the front. I'd rather them leave it to me if that's the plan. When the time gets closer I will talk to the builder about it and find out what they intend to install.

As for organic-- I may be picking your brain on that in the future. I have to figure out what's even available around here first.


----------



## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> @ktgrok, Wow, thank you for all of that! This may be tricky and I may decide against it, but I intend to take an organic approach to soil development and fertilization. I also mean to use herbicides sparingly, but I don't oppose their use. So I will try to be strategic in what I use, when, and where. I may have to figure some of that out as I go!
> 
> I just looked into the Earthwise 7 blade and it does look like some cost savings may be in order! Would a 7 blade still be okay at 1", or would more blades be needed at that height?
> 
> ...


Depending on conditions and the amount of sprigs you put out you'll be mowing in 27-30 days, if you do the correct prep work you'll have a complete lawn in ~50 days. The amount of water for sprigs and seed are about the same, so if you can't irrigate for seed, you can't for sprigs. The difference is coverage....you'll have a fuller/dense lawn faster with sprigs vs seed, and won't have all the issues that comes from trying to seed bermuda. Plus it will match the bermuda so you have in the front so you don't have to worry about growing together 2 types of bermuda. @movingshrub has a great thread on sprigging


----------



## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Chocolate Lab said:


> So the builder would be seeding the back? Not sure I'd like that as I'm guessing he'll use the cheapest common seed possible... or maybe you could let him do it and pay a little extra for the seed you want. (Maybe a better idea anyway to let him do the work.)
> 
> I will stand up for seeding, though. I had a nice looking lawn that was getting compliments in about five weeks, and that's with almost zero rain (maybe 0.2" total in six weeks). You're in a much wetter area so I think it would do even better there. I read where some say seeding is so difficult, but that hasn't been my experience. The hardest part is the initial ground prep (which you'd have to do anyway for sprigging, right?) and making sure your irrigation is automated so you don't accidentally let things get dry. But then you pretty much let nature take its course.
> 
> BTW -- I'm with you on going as organic as possible and keeping the chemicals to a minimum. That's what I've done, too.


I do think that weed pressure is the biggest issue with seeding. And that can really vary. I was seeding a yard that hadn't been much else but weeds for 10 years, and a few feet away was the neighbor's yard, with no fence or driveway in between, that is 90 percent weeds year round. Weeds that they let go to seed on the regular, and those seeds were constantly blowing into my yard. Some of them grew way way way faster than the grass and crowded it out, blocking the sun and sucking up the water. On the other side of my house where I have a fence between me and the neighbor and they take a bit better care of the yard I had way less issues and it looked great in about a month.


----------



## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Gotcha. I think organic fertilizer is great, just more expensive per pound of nitrogen. But a great choice. Also, for insects Spinosad is organic and very safe and worked wonders on my armyworms. It is nice because it kills the armyworms but not the things like spiders that eat armyworms. There are also biological fungicides that you can use as a preventative, but may not be enough if you need a curative application.


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

ktgrok said:


> Gotcha. I think organic fertilizer is great, just more expensive per pound of nitrogen. But a great choice. Also, for insects Spinosad is organic and very safe and worked wonders on my armyworms. It is nice because it kills the armyworms but not the things like spiders that eat armyworms. There are also biological fungicides that you can use as a preventative, but may not be enough if you need a curative application.


I'll not get too deeply into the merits of organic lawncare, as there is another forum for that, but I will say that doing things that way makes you change the whole way you think about fertilizing. For example, I never really think about "pounds of nitrogen" and focus more on the health of the soil and its inhabitants. Which was great for TTTF and worked beautifully . . . and I hope that's still the case for bermuda. I do know that it's a hungry beast!



HungrySoutherner said:


> Depending on conditions and the amount of sprigs you put out you'll be mowing in 27-30 days, if you do the correct prep work you'll have a complete lawn in ~50 days. The amount of water for sprigs and seed are about the same, so if you can't irrigate for seed, you can't for sprigs. The difference is coverage....you'll have a fuller/dense lawn faster with sprigs vs seed, and won't have all the issues that comes from trying to seed bermuda. Plus it will match the bermuda so you have in the front so you don't have to worry about growing together 2 types of bermuda. @movingshrub has a great thread on sprigging


Interesting. I'll do more reading about that and see if it becomes a good option once I know what kind of sod I'm getting.


----------



## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> Chocolate Lab said:
> 
> 
> > So the builder would be seeding the back? Not sure I'd like that as I'm guessing he'll use the cheapest common seed possible... or maybe you could let him do it and pay a little extra for the seed you want. (Maybe a better idea anyway to let him do the work.)
> ...


Just keep in mind that seeding bermuda is not like seeding TTTF, the germination is much slower, and then there is a growth stall usually with bermuda seed where it sits and does absolutely nothing before it takes off. Your seeding window is much different for bermuda too. You need it to be hot for the plant to come up and take off so most people are doing seeding end of May - July when the bermuda is in peak season. Which means you will need lots of water to keep it from drying out. How big is the back yard area you will be working with?


----------



## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

Here's my 2 cents. A lot of this is how I actually do lawn care. Have fun!

Spend money up front for nice grass. That will be very difficult and expensive to change later unless you're intrigued by a complete renovation. Most everything else can be bought incrementally as you realize a need for it. You will have to mow every 3 days for a B+ lawn, there's no real way around that without PGR and a nice sprayer.

Immediate Cheap Needs:
- Manual Reel Mower
- Gas String Trimmer (can suffice as an edger)
- Electric Blower
- Cheap Scott's broadcast spreader
- Cheap fertilizer
- 1 gallon hand can for spot spraying with cheap weed-b-gon or image herbicides (as needed).
- Pro-plugger?

Fertilizer is granular. You can get granular pre-emergent. You can get granular fungicides. Grub control is granular. You can even get granular herbicides for blanket applications. You do not need an expensive sprayer or spreader to get started. Buy one when you decide your current setup is too limiting. Do all the granulars work as well? Meh, but you just want a B+ for now, you can upgrade later. There's also some hose end stuff that works until you have better equipment.

Upgrades when you feel like your current setup is limiting. You really don't need any of this to get started. It's taken me 2 years to start to want some of this stuff.

- Good sprayer (My next upgrade)
- Liquid fungicides (My next endeavor)
- Liquid Iron (I'll probably try this with the new sprayer)
- PGR (If you want to constantly spray stuff instead of mow all the time in the summer)
- Humic / Kelp / other snake oils (I use Kelp4Less for now)
- Better trimmer, real edger, and better a blower. Would be nice! $$$
- Liquid pre-emergent (I still use granular with decent weed suppression)
- Celcius / certainty (I still use the cheap stuff)
- Better spreader (Meh, my Scotts is fine for 8k)


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

HungrySoutherner said:


> Just keep in mind that seeding bermuda is not like seeding TTTF, the germination is much slower, and then there is a growth stall usually with bermuda seed where it sits and does absolutely nothing before it takes off. Your seeding window is much different for bermuda too. You need it to be hot for the plant to come up and take off so most people are doing seeding end of May - July when the bermuda is in peak season. Which means you will need lots of water to keep it from drying out. How big is the back yard area you will be working with?


Only about 2,000 sq ft, maybe less, and nearly a square. I think it'd be pretty easy to keep it wet. I always seeded TTTF earlier than most (labor day or so) and it was still very hot and dry, so I'm hoping it wouldn't be too much harder.

But the timing is tough. I'll have a toddler running around and I'd love to have a back yard for him, but if May is the earliest for seeding then we'd go pretty much the whole spring and summer without a back yard. It's making me think I might be better off cutting plugs from sod and letting it fill in. That might be a lot more expensive but hopefully it would be a faster way to get a yard.


----------



## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> HungrySoutherner said:
> 
> 
> > Just keep in mind that seeding bermuda is not like seeding TTTF, the germination is much slower, and then there is a growth stall usually with bermuda seed where it sits and does absolutely nothing before it takes off. Your seeding window is much different for bermuda too. You need it to be hot for the plant to come up and take off so most people are doing seeding end of May - July when the bermuda is in peak season. Which means you will need lots of water to keep it from drying out. How big is the back yard area you will be working with?
> ...


Sprigs are faster than plugs....You'd need about 4 pallets of sod maybe 4.5 to cover the whole area and depending on your sod prices, the going rate for Tifway 419 $100 - $150 a pallet...very likely what the builder will install in your front yard be about $500 to do the whole back yard. If you're worried about spending the summer without a backyard just sod it. Instant lawn


----------



## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

I had nearly a full lawn in 5 weeks from seed.


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

ktgrok said:


> I had nearly a full lawn in 5 weeks from seed.


How much foot traffic were you comfortable with at that point? That would put us around mid-June.


----------



## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> ktgrok said:
> 
> 
> > I had nearly a full lawn in 5 weeks from seed.
> ...


My kids played on it quite a bit. I was still careful about adults stomping around in boots or what not.


----------



## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> ktgrok said:
> 
> 
> > I had nearly a full lawn in 5 weeks from seed.
> ...


Just keep in mind @ktgrok is in Florida and you're in TN.


----------



## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

HungrySoutherner said:


> Bermuda_Rooster said:
> 
> 
> > ktgrok said:
> ...


Very good point. Probably much much hotter here. I also went with a fast germinating/establishing variety, based on NTEP tests. Some of the ones with better overall scores are the slowest to germinate.


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

HungrySoutherner said:


> Just keep in mind @ktgrok is in Florida and you're in TN.


 :thumbup: Just exploring my options. Appreciate all the info!


----------



## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> HungrySoutherner said:
> 
> 
> > Just keep in mind @ktgrok is in Florida and you're in TN.
> ...


Also there is the cost factor. 10lb of Arden-15 Bermuda seed is $200 to $150 for 10lb of Yukon, then add in whatever the cost of water is during germination. Sprigs should be the same or cheaper, but quicker. Sod will cost more but not significantly more all in if you lay it yourself. I think for smaller projects the cost vs time is often overlooked.


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

I just got confirmation that the sod will be 419. My question: if I were to seed the back with an improved/modified common variety, such as Arden/Blackjack/etc., how different should I expect the appearance to be?

Just wondering how much of a problem it is if one creeps into the other in that scenario.


----------



## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> I just got confirmation that the sod will be 419. My question: if I were to seed the back with an improved/modified common variety, such as Arden/Blackjack/etc., how different should I expect the appearance to be?
> 
> Just wondering how much of a problem it is if one creeps into the other in that scenario.


You can check out my Lawn Journal, but I can tell you from my experience seeded common is not going to match in color or texture and will compete for space and infect each other where they meet. I've spent this summer trying different techniques to remove common from my hybrid 419 and it aint easy or fun. Blackjack bermuda won't even be close in texture or color its very lime green. You will also have to deal with the fact that the common will grow at a different rate than the hybrid. If you ever play with growth regulating your bermuda it will only amplify that.


----------



## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> I just got confirmation that the sod will be 419. My question: if I were to seed the back with an improved/modified common variety, such as Arden/Blackjack/etc., how different should I expect the appearance to be?
> 
> Just wondering how much of a problem it is if one creeps into the other in that scenario.


I've read Arden 15/Princess 77 is supposed to be the closest visual match for Tifway...and is supposed to be at least as good. No idea how correct that info is. I have near full coverage with my Arden 15 at 30 days from seed. I don't think sprigs will be any faster. It still needs probably another month to fully thicken up but it's sending stolons like crazy so it may be sooner. I went with A15 because of the scores and the quick germination (4 days).


----------



## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

HungrySoutherner said:


> Bermuda_Rooster said:
> 
> 
> > HungrySoutherner said:
> ...


Whoa, whoa, whoa, I'd ask where you're buying sod but I know better . Certified Tiftuf is running $250 plus per pallet up in my neck of the woods. Sod has its own issues mostly due to leveling needed. I'd sprig but where do you get sprigs other than your own stand? I'm looking at doing my back 15M next year and there's really no good option at that size other than seeding and praying.


----------



## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Yeah, sod is about 250 per pallet here, up to 500 per pallet, depending on where you buy from.


----------



## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

cglarsen said:


> HungrySoutherner said:
> 
> 
> > Bermuda_Rooster said:
> ...


Sod farms will sell sprigs and it's much cheaper. Tifway 419 is cheap around here , tiftuf can be had for around $150 a pallet same for tifgrand . I've seen reputable farms selling certified 419 for $100 a pallet this season


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

LawnRat said:


> I've read Arden 15/Princess 77 is supposed to be the closest visual match for Tifway...and is supposed to be at least as good. No idea how correct that info is. I have near full coverage with my Arden 15 at 30 days from seed. I don't think sprigs will be any faster. It still needs probably another month to fully thicken up but it's sending stolons like crazy so it may be sooner. I went with A15 because of the scores and the quick germination (4 days).


Thanks. I saw the same comments about a blend called La Prima. I'll just have to look at sod and seed prices and see how things look.


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

HungrySoutherner said:


> You can check out my Lawn Journal, but I can tell you from my experience seeded common is not going to match in color or texture and will compete for space and infect each other where they meet. I've spent this summer trying different techniques to remove common from my hybrid 419 and it aint easy or fun. Blackjack bermuda won't even be close in texture or color its very lime green. You will also have to deal with the fact that the common will grow at a different rate than the hybrid. If you ever play with growth regulating your bermuda it will only amplify that.


Some of them seem to be much darker, so I'm not closing the door on the idea. At any rate our neighbors will likely have some kind of common bermuda in the back, and our back will only connect in a tiny strip to our front anyway. So some common invasion is inevitable, and it's as likely to be from the neighbors as from us. So I guess I'm not super worried about it but I'd love for them to be the same or similar.


----------



## mbaisley (Apr 8, 2019)

Disclaimer: I'm relatively new to all this bermuda stuff myself.

But I am in Knoxville, so we are in the same neck of the woods.

About three years ago, an old man at Mayo Garden Center was working the seed counter. I was asking him for Zenith Zoysia seed... told him I wanted to choke out the common Bermuda that had taken over my fescue lawn. He said "Son, when we are all dead and gone there'll be 3 things left on this earth: cockroaches, kudzu and Bermuda grass. You can't kill it. You need to either give up or go all Bermuda. And if you do, get some nice Bermuda."

He recommended LaPrima XD or Riviera. I tried both that year. LaPrima in the front yard was pretty successful. Riviera in the back yard was an utter failure and I wound up overseeding with LaPrima.

Having said that, I have now seeded bermuda on two different properties here in Knoxville (old house / new house). Altogether, I've now tried LaPrima, Yukon, Arden 15 and Riviera.

I am still experimenting and currently have trays going to test germination rates of Yukon, Arden 15 and Riviera. I'll post pics soon.

Here are my rankings, with 1 being best and 4 being worst:

Speed of germination:

1. LaPrima
2. Yukon
3. Arden 15
4. Riviera (distant 4th place)

Lateral spread rate:

1. Yukon
2. LaPrima
3. Arden 15
4. Riviera (I've never been able to get it thick enough to tell)

Quality (Texture / Color): (this is obviously subjective opinion)

1. Arden 15
2. Yukon
3. LaPrima
4. Riviera (I hear it should be #1 on this list... but as I said above ....)

I've seen TifTuf and 419 sodded and I think they are both slightly superior to the seeded varieties in terms of appearance. I have no idea about the maintenance, disease and drought resistance, shade tolerance, etc.

Other comments:

LaPrima: in my experience, LaPrima is the fastest germinating of the 4. But probably the lowest in terms of texture and color. Still way better than common Bermuda, but inferior to the other 3.

Yukon: the 2nd fastest germination, and probably the fastest lateral spread rate. I would rank it above LaPrima and even with Arden 15 in terms of quality.

Arden 15: Slower germination than Yukon, but equal in appearance.

Riviera: I don't know what the secret to success is, but I'm obviously missing something. On 3 attempts, I got very low germination and very thin, stunted growth. I've never seen mature Riviera.

I'm currently about 45 days into a partial renovation of about 3,000 sq ft using a 50/50 mix of Yukon and Arden 15. So far it's coming in nicely but not very uniformly.

I've never sprigged before but one of my best friends is a golf course superintendent and it's my understanding that sprigging is the next best thing to sodding in terms of quick establishment.

Bottom line: If you want to have a nice yard for the spring of 2020, your only option is to pony up and do the sod. You won't regret it.

If $$ is too tight for sod, do the sprigs but you're too late to do it this year and you probably won't have it grown in until late June or early July and that assumes an early spring and ample watering.

If you want to do seed, May is really too early here in East TN to seed Bermuda. It's not hot enough and your germination will be slower, meaning more seed loss to birds, heavy rain runoff, etc. First week of June is safer, but then you're looking at watering every day well into early to mid July and you'll have full grow in by August.

Good luck.


----------



## mbaisley (Apr 8, 2019)

Here is a pic of my 50/50 mix of Arden and Yukon. This was about 2 weeks ago and about 40 days post seeding. It's filled in quite a bit since this was taken. I should add that this spot only gets about 5 hours of direct sunlight.


----------



## mbaisley (Apr 8, 2019)

Here are pics of my germination experiment. All taken at day 7 after seeding. All seeded in identical soil with identical sun and watering.

Yukon at day 7:



Arden 15 at day 7:



Riviera at day 7:


----------



## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

Great stuff, mbaisley. I wonder why the Riviera was so poor -- could you have gotten a bad batch? Besides the ntep tests, JNick has an excellent reno journal and I couldn't be happier with my Monaco (next gen Riviera).

I'm not happy with my Maya in the back yard and halfway considered Yukon back there just as a change since it doesn't cost any more than Monaco. Tellycoleman's looks amazing.


----------



## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Chocolate Lab said:


> Great stuff, mbaisley. I wonder why the Riviera was so poor -- could you have gotten a bad batch? Besides the ntep tests, JNick has an excellent reno journal and I couldn't be happier with my Monaco (next gen Riviera).
> 
> I'm not happy with my Maya in the back yard and halfway considered Yukon back there just as a change since it doesn't cost any more than Monaco. Tellycoleman's looks amazing.


I'm not super thrilled with my Maya either. In the places it is dense and nice it is really nice. But, it doesn't seem to spread and thicken like I would expect. Maybe that's me, maybe it's the variety, I don't know. 
Now that I've scalped it I'm tempted to overused something else on top of it, while the dirt is exposed. Probably will just keep doing what I'm doing though as the areas it did take well look great.


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

@mbaisley, great stuff! Thanks for the input. I used to grow TTTF in the Knoxville area, and I agree with the guy at Mayo. You'll never kill the bermuda.

As far as seed goes, I plan to order from Hogan if I can't find it locally, and Arden 15, Yukon, LaPrima, and Monaco are all options there. If one of those doesn't look completely awful next to 419 then I'll go with it if I go the seeding route.

It looks like I could get 419 sod for ~$500 in May/June or $700 in December, delivered. December would be nice because that's when the front goes down, but I'm not sure it's worth an extra $200. Decisions, decisions!

Another question: How much difference in growth rate is there between a hybrid like 419 and a seeded variety? Is it drastic?


----------



## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> @mbaisley, great stuff! Thanks for the input. I used to grow TTTF in the Knoxville area, and I agree with the guy at Mayo. You'll never kill the bermuda.
> 
> As far as seed goes, I plan to order from Hogan if I can't find it locally, and Arden 15, Yukon, LaPrima, and Monaco are all options there. If one of those doesn't look completely awful next to 419 then I'll go with it if I go the seeding route.
> 
> ...


They will definitely grow at different rates. Tifway generally is going to be a shade or 2 darker than seeded variety, maybe close to Arden in texture. The other varieties are going to be lighter in color than the 419.


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

HungrySoutherner said:


> They will definitely grow at different rates. Tifway generally is going to be a shade or 2 darker than seeded variety, maybe close to Arden in texture. The other varieties are going to be lighter in color than the 419.


Okay. They will meet in a strip just 3-5 feet wide, so that will be the only place to really see them next to each other. And really, they may both struggle there-- it will get more shade since it's between houses. So it may be alright. In the end I think this choice mostly comes down to cost vs. convenience.

Thanks for all of your help, @HungrySoutherner.


----------



## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

This is exactly what I was going for when I started my project this spring. Check out my lawn journal if you want to see what a bermuda lawn on a budget can look like.

I'm a big proponent of seeding because A) I'm cheap B) I'm cheap C) I like the challenge/adventure of a seeding project and D) I enjoy the reward of seeing little grass babies sprouting after all your hard work. Honestly, as long as you have a good plan in place for prepping the land, preventing/attacking weeds, and watering seeding is really not that difficult.

That being said, for only 2k sqft, and wanting a lawn to use for your toddler right away, I would strongly consider sod. The cost to sod that small of an area shouldn't be too much more than the cost to seed when you factor in all the time you'll spend prepping the yard, putting seed down, watering every day, etc. etc. I know I said seeding wasn't difficult but I never said it wasn't a lot of work. After all, your time is worth something isn't it?


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

So I've pretty much decided to wait til May/June to either sod or seed the back. What are the board's thoughts on seeding annual ryegrass in early spring to give us a temporary lawn and reduce weed pressure til it's bermuda time in June? If I did that, could I seed bermuda straight into the still-alive rye or would I need to kill it? I assume the rye would be dead by sometime in July anyway.


----------



## mbaisley (Apr 8, 2019)

Sounds like a good plan. You'll have a nice yard for the fall, winter and early spring.

Although I think you'll definitely want to kill the rye before you seed bermuda (if you seed). That rye will hang on longer than you might think ... especially if it gets a little shade in the afternoon.

Plus if it's like the annual rye I've sowed every year, you'll get some weeds with it too.

I still vote for sodding it based on your stated goals.


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

mbaisley said:


> Sounds like a good plan. You'll have a nice yard for the fall, winter and early spring.
> 
> Although I think you'll definitely want to kill the rye before you seed bermuda (if you seed). That rye will hang on longer than you might think ... especially if it gets a little shade in the afternoon.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback. The rye will get full sun, so I'm thinking it'll burn out a little quicker. Since it's just in the back I may try to just let it die out, but we'll see how things look in May.

I am torn about sod vs. seed based on cost. It may just depend on what my better half wants to do.


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

All-- another question after talking to the builder today. He said that there would be no topsoil put down in the back if we seed, so it would just be on top of the native soil that is there. He was encouraging us to get the back sodded, but for him to do it will cost us over $2k. (Turns out, we'll need more like 5 pallets of 419). I know "topsoil" is a term without much real meaning, so I'm trying to figure out of that makes much difference.

Any thoughts? I know annual rye is good for soil building, so I'm inclined to still seed that in early spring and to work on the soil over time by topdressing. I just don't know that I can stomach the $2k when I know we could sod it ourselves for less than half that, or seed it for 10% of that.


----------



## jasonbraswell (Aug 18, 2019)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> All-- another question after talking to the builder today. He said that there would be no topsoil put down in the back if we seed, so it would just be on top of the native soil that is there. He was encouraging us to get the back sodded, but for him to do it will cost us over $2k. (Turns out, we'll need more like 5 pallets of 419). I know "topsoil" is a term without much real meaning, so I'm trying to figure out of that makes much difference.
> 
> Any thoughts? I know annual rye is good for soil building, so I'm inclined to still seed that in early spring and to work on the soil over time by topdressing. I just don't know that I can stomach the $2k when I know we could sod it ourselves for less than half that, or seed it for 10% of that.


Bermuda germinates on Mars soil with the correct watering and soil to seed contact. Bringing in extra topsoil just brings in added risk of more weeds. If you only need 5 pallets of sod, go for it. You'll be glad to have an instant lawn. My wife and I put out 2 or 3 pallets last year. 
Skip the annual rye, I hated how much mowing I had to do all winter. I only did it because I didn't have any choice for erosion control last winter and I started bermuda seed so late. However, the dead rye could have been a plus come May with extra organic material in the soil, but I'll never put it down again.


----------



## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

I'd still seed and use that $1700 you'd save on something else fun (or necessary).


----------



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

jasonbraswell said:


> Skip the annual rye, I hated how much mowing I had to do all winter. I only did it because I didn't have any choice for erosion control last winter and I started bermuda seed so late. However, the dead rye could have been a plus come May with extra organic material in the soil, but I'll never put it down again.


This is where we will be too. We won't have another choice over the winter, so annual rye is our best bet. I'm hoping the extra organic material will help with the rough soil, too. But I haven't mowed in a few years, so I won't mind mowing this Spring before the bermuda greens up. I just hope I can get rye germination in early March.



Chocolate Lab said:


> I'd still seed and use that $1700 you'd save on something else fun (or necessary).


This is where I'm leaning. I should be able to get the seed I need for $100.

It also turns out that our front and back yards won't connect at all-- there will be beds with river rock completely separating front from back. So I don't have to worry about contact between the 419 and whatever I seed/sod in the back.


----------

