# Talk me out of MSM



## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

So guys, i really think that a blanket app of msm would be exactly what i need to kill of the ryegrass and give my kbg a chance to shine.

Best case scenario. Kilss off undesirable turf and looks like a poor reno. I either overseed or allow kbg to fill in. 75% or more is undamaged.

Worst case scenario. It kills more than 50% of my lawn and seeding is required.

I know that there are extremlry strict limits on how much to use. Because of this, I bought a kitchen scale to measure grams.

Is there any reason not to do this?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You know the risks and are willing to accept them, so go for it.

I would like to see before and after pictures to see how well it works.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Interesting. I'm curious to see how this turns out, too. Sounds like it could be used to eliminate the perennial ryegrass from a Northern mix.

I tried last year to eliminate fine fescue from my remaining section of Northern mix by use of Tenacity, but I don't think I eliminated much fine fescue. Hopefully you have better luck using MSM Turf to eliminate ryegrass from Kentucky bluegrass - at least what you are planning is a labeled usage!


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

Excuse my ignorance, what is MSM?


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Shindoman said:


> Excuse my ignorance, what is MSM?


MSM Turf Herbicide


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## troksd (Jul 27, 2018)

Shindoman said:


> Excuse my ignorance, what is MSM?


Very potent stuff. Used improperly, it will kill oak trees or sterilize the soil for years. Difficult to use on small lawns as it requires a tiny amount of AI (0.25 oz or lower per acre kills Ryegrass).

I have a bottle sitting on the shelf for two years. I haven't touched it, and don't plan to.


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## WDE46 (Mar 11, 2019)

You just need a gram scale. 0.25 oz per acre is 0.162g per 1000 square feet.

I use this one

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012LOQUQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Check it with a dollar bill (1.0 g) or a nickel (I think they're 5.0g)


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

troksd said:


> Shindoman said:
> 
> 
> > Excuse my ignorance, what is MSM?
> ...


Sooo... the writer is thinking of turning his front lawn into a toxic waste site for years to come? An EPA-controlled BROWNFIELD? Do you think they might be a little nuts?

And YOU! You have a bottle of this nuclear waste on a shelf?? And PAID for it? Are you out of your _mind_?

So I have this bridge for sale. You'll love it! You can do so much with it...

Guys, seriously. Step back off the ledge and just renovate. And don't put fescue in the mix this time. Good GRIEF!

Kids... they'll put an EYE out if you don't watch them... CONSTANTLY!

Did that help?

Murph


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## troksd (Jul 27, 2018)

I bought it before doing research. I was an idiot for buying it. I still have it because am unaware of a safe way of getting rid of it. Nearest extension office is opened tomorrow, perhaps they'll except it.



BXMurphy said:


> And YOU! You have a bottle of this nuclear waste on a shelf?? And PAID for it? Are you out of your _mind_?
> 
> So I have this bridge for sale. You'll love it! You can do so much with it...
> 
> ...


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

@troksd @BXMurphy

What makes MSM so much worse than roundup quinclorac or any other herbicide?

Toxic waste ? A little extreme eh?


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

troksd said:


> I bought it before doing research. I was an idiot for buying it. I still have it because am unaware of a safe way of getting rid of it. Nearest extension office is opened tomorrow, perhaps they'll except it.


Call ahead. And take Thick And (mostly) Dense with you.

<mumbling> A quarter of a gram per acre... overlapping... wind spreading it around... IDIOT! Where do these people come from? Danger to society... <shuffling away...>

Sheesh!

B


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Thick n Dense said:


> Toxic waste ? A little extreme eh?


Heh! Did you want to be talked out of it or not?

I swear, if I see a mushroom cloud out my west window... And it came from... a LAWN?!?



B


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## kevin8239 (Jun 28, 2019)

Yes. I do think sometimes people get a little nuts about their yards. My thinking is before I put something down is would I feel safe with my dog or child on the lawn? Now I am not totally organic, I use Tenacity and some Scott's products, but this MSM stuff sounds dangerous.


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## troksd (Jul 27, 2018)

Unlike other sulfonylurea herbicides, it leaves a potent residue in the soil for weeks / months. Halosulfuron is in the same class as MSM, but without the headaches. I am all for using as little chemical as possible, and when I do, I don't want to use one that is as tenacious as MSM.



Thick n Dense said:


> @troksd @BXMurphy
> 
> What makes MSM so much worse than roundup quinclorac or any other herbicide?
> 
> Toxic waste ? A little extreme eh?


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## jah (Jul 27, 2019)

troksd said:


> Unlike other sulfonylurea herbicides, it leaves a potent residue in the soil for weeks / months. Halosulfuron is in the same class as MSM, but without the headaches. I am all for using as little chemical as possible, and when I do, I don't want to use one that is as tenacious as MSM.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is actually not extreme, perhaps hyperbolic. I bought some of it thinking I would clear tall fescue out of my hard fescue lawn (one of the things MSM can supposedly can do). I over did it just a bit and it nuked the entire site, and nothing would germinate there for at least 6 months. Because of that residual and the very narrow range between success and a disaster, this is one I'd stay away from.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

jah said:


> This is actually not extreme, perhaps hyperbolic. I bought some of it thinking I would clear tall fescue out of my hard fescue lawn (one of the things MSM can supposedly can do). I over did it just a bit and it nuked the entire site, and nothing would germinate there for at least 6 months. Because of that residual and the very narrow range between success and a disaster, this is one I'd stay away from.


Hyperbolic... I like the way you put that. Nicely played!

When you're talking about a gram per ACRE (or whatever that minuscule amount was...) and trying to get it down to 8,000 SF like the writer's lawn... man, you're talking about a rounding error between killing a blade here and a blade there and... Brownfield City.

Murph


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@BXMurphy MSM is used on warm season lawns without a problem. Lets not overreact. Here is a video from Matt: 




Yes If you overapply, the residual effect will stay in the soil. The room for error between killing the fescue and killing everything is small.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Calling @Greendoc, just in case...


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## craigdt (Apr 21, 2018)

BXMurphy said:


> troksd said:
> 
> 
> > I bought it before doing research. I was an idiot for buying it. I still have it because am unaware of a safe way of getting rid of it. Nearest extension office is opened tomorrow, perhaps they'll except it.
> ...


The stuff seems potent and certain care is required for use of *many* of the powerful products that some of us like to use when other alternatives are not viable or practical.

There's a time and a place to use certain chemicals, and you must respect their power and understand the risks. 
I'd hate for someone to be scared away from a solution that is perfectly usable if the required care is taken.

Anyways, carry on.


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

g-man said:


> @BXMurphy MSM is used on warm season lawns without a problem. Lets not overreact. Here is a video from Matt:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wish that Matt had addressed it from a cool season standpoint. From what I remember, he only talks about it from the warm season point of view.

Also, they make versions of Msm that is dilluted to reduce the chance of the chance of messing the mixture up. Called top-shot.

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/14013728621860516017?q=msm+herbicide+single+serving&client=safari&hl=en-us&biw=768&bih=922&tbs=cat:3103,vw:l,init_ar:SgVKAwifGEoHsgQECLyuIA%3D%3D,ss:44&prds=num:1,of:1,epd:9280570237588131541,paur:ClkAsKraXxspy5WIfpEzODdZohNuiTW7nAs2Tw7UC6ALzv09idY-_oooaUvPjmtgsZD3XKEKDdSEvU_yTnMICWWA152rJ02E5znkA_AA01C3avj4VzFBoj1AQhIZAFPVH71iLKaLmKtd8HFFTAHmeMOiU1T2Cg,prmr:1,cs:1


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## Drewmey (Oct 3, 2018)

Thick n Dense said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > @BXMurphy MSM is used on warm season lawns without a problem. Lets not overreact. Here is a video from Matt:
> ...


It's been a couple days since I watched this, but did he not address it from a cool season perspective? If I remember correctly, I though he addressed it by saying don't use it? To me that was addressing it and nothing else needs to be said.


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## troksd (Jul 27, 2018)

From Top Shot label...

"Special Considerations

Be careful when treating areas around the base of trees, if there is a nick or cut from something like a weed eater and Topshot is sprayed on it, it could make the tree sick."



Thick n Dense said:


> Also, they make versions of Msm that is dilluted to reduce the chance of the chance of messing the mixture up. Called top-shot.
> 
> https://www.google.com/shopping/product/14013728621860516017?q=msm+herbicide+single+serving&client=safari&hl=en-us&biw=768&bih=922&tbs=cat:3103,vw:l,init_ar:SgVKAwifGEoHsgQECLyuIA%3D%3D,ss:44&prds=num:1,of:1,epd:9280570237588131541,paur:ClkAsKraXxspy5WIfpEzODdZohNuiTW7nAs2Tw7UC6ALzv09idY-_oooaUvPjmtgsZD3XKEKDdSEvU_yTnMICWWA152rJ02E5znkA_AA01C3avj4VzFBoj1AQhIZAFPVH71iLKaLmKtd8HFFTAHmeMOiU1T2Cg,prmr:1,cs:1


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

Drewmey said:


> Thick n Dense said:
> 
> 
> > g-man said:
> ...


I love this guy, but he clearly didnt address the niche application it has in cool season lawns.


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## MassHole (Jun 27, 2018)

Any follow up on MSM?


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