# New bio-indicator for top-growth stop



## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

New England is known for fall foliage on our trees. Some of the most beautiful colors... anywhere in the world... are found in our forests during autumn. At the very peak of our autumnal splendor, our grass stops growing.

Now you watch... it's the APEX of the season... you are LOVING it! And then a storm hits... many of the trees are stripped bare... maybe there is a stretch of cloudy days and the color turns brown... it's muted... you are sad. What could possibly cheer you up?...

A winterizer application of fast-release nitrogen! 46-0-0 urea at two pounds per 1,000 square feet to yield about one pound of nitrogen per square foot. You're not done! More fun!

It's cold out... the flowers are frost-bitten... you have to pull those out, too. You can see your breath as you struggle...

The hose complains of stiffness as you unwind it. The darned thing never really lies straight. And yet, you know you MUST water in that fertilizer! Yes. YES! A half-inch of the most soggy, miserable water you've ever experienced must be applied... to the WHOLE lawn. That's ok... it's all good... your lawn deserves it... But the hose?

Oh, no! It must be drained... it has to be dry... you have to store it... you are cold. Your sneakers are soaked... you can't go in the house like THAT... But your season is now finished. You can relax. An adult beverage... You can't wait until next year. But this year?

Ah... yes... you timed that winterizer JUST right. Congratulations!


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Has your grass stopped having top growth? I'm still mowing every 5 days -- definitely needs it tomorrow...


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Mine is pretty much done. I'll mow this weekend. It doesn't look like I'll take much off. Next weekend, I will either mow or fertilize.

I am going to remember the leaves on the trees for next year. Just past peak foliage seems to be about right for a visual clue that I'm done.


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## massgrass (Aug 17, 2017)

I just cleaned up after the storm and will be mowing soon. The leaves on our pear trees are still green at this point, so we're not quite there yet.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Tree leaves are not a reliable indicator. A drought year will make them fall sooner or a heavy storm. Keep mowing until top growth stops. You have around 3 weeks to drop the nitrogen after that point.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Ah, g-man... always the level head...  :thumbup:

I'll tell you, though.... top-growth has been on my mind since early October.

Ken-n-Nancy surprised me back then when he said I still had 5-6 weeks of growth left. "He's nuts!" I said to myself. The bag of Milorganite said to put some down around Thanksgiving. "They don't know what they're talking about," I muttered...

Sure enough... here I am... dead leaves all around me... and I won't drop urea for another two weeks...

I'm going to remember this for next year and not worry about it until really, this deep into the season. But, yeah, keep mowing, keep watching for sure... just like you said...


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

BXMurphy said:


> I'll tell you, though.... top-growth has been on my mind since early October.


That's fine for it to be on your mind since early October. However, there's no way top growth will have stopped for you in early or even mid October.

The final application does *NOT get applied when "top growth slows down."*

The final quick-release application should be *applied after "top growth stops*."

My criteria for _*stopped *_is that when I go out to mulch up the leaves on the lawn, at least 6-7 full days after the previous mowing/mulching, that there are _*ZERO grass clippings*_ from mowing. Not just a little bit of growth, but no growth.

Particularly for us folks in the northern states (well north of the transition zone), you will do more harm than good by applying a quick-release fertilizer to the lawn while the grass is still growing (slowly) but hasn't yet stopped, by increasing the likelihood of winterkill and snow mold due to pushing top growth that will end up going into winter as lush, fragile grass blades with insufficient time to harden off before winter.

Looking back at my "top growth stopped" dates for the past two years:

Front lawn (more sun):
27 Nov 2016
20 Nov 2015

Side & Back Lawns (mostly shade):
18 Nov 2016
20 Nov 2015

I anticipate this year will be even later, as October was very warm here -- average temperature for the month in 2017 was +9F above the historical average (2017 was 60F avg, while "normal" is 51F). I wouldn't be at all surprised if our "top growth stopped" mowing isn't until December.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Two years ago was that crazy warm December and I remember leaving work early on Christmas Eve day and mowing!


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Man! Those are some crazy late dates!

I never would have thought... prior to coming here... that I would be messing with my lawn around Thanksgiving!

It's funny, too, because another site makes a big deal about frost dates. Average first frost for me is mid-October. About the 17th... And here I am... watching and waiting... I've had three frosts... darned near close to freezing at the 34° degree mark... and still growing... and might STILL be growing for another 3-4 weeks and maybe more!

Are you SURE you guys ain't nuts?!?  :shock: :lol:

It's pretty cool what you learn when you pay attention!...

Thank you for the help and hand-holding through my first season of getting serious about my lawn!! :thumbup: You guys are the BEST! I'll just keep mowing and watching...


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

First frost =/= top growth stop.

First frost gives an *approximation* of 4-5 weeks before top growth stops, which is when you should stop weekly feedings.

Actual top growth stop is determined by lack of clippings only.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

My neighbor's lawn guy was out yesterday applying the winterizer.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Sinclair said:


> First frost gives an *approximation* of 4-5 weeks before top growth stops, which is when you should stop weekly feedings.


That's going to take a LOT of worry out of next season.

It was nice of K&N to dig up past records and sharing them.

Pennstater? Mowing on Christmas Eve? Were the neighbors looking at you kinda funny-like? :?

Never in a million years would I have believed how late I can expect lawn fun... never... and I thought I had it dialed in with the leaves... HAH! 

Thanks, again... very generous of everyone with their time...


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

The best bio-indicator of stopped top growth is when the grass in your lawn stops getting taller! :lol:

Love your enthusiasm!  :thumbup:


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Enthusiasm... Pfffsst... it's easy to be enthusiastic when you don't know what the problem is... 



Sinclair said:


> First frost gives an *approximation* of 4-5 weeks before top growth stops, which is when you should stop weekly feedings.


But, hey! Let's talk about this...

Are you saying that routine feedings should stop around average first frost date so that the grass slows down on its own over the next 4-5 weeks after that average date?

Now, it sounds like you are doing the aggressive spoonfeeding routine just before first frost. When did you stop your regular maintenance program and switch to the aggressive schedule? How much time did you allow to pass between that last regular feeding (I'm assuming Milo) before you switched to urea?

And then... I'm guessing you are spoonfeeding urea right up to the frost, right?

I should go read that article again... how much do you want to bet that all the answers are right there? <sigh>

Some people never learn... that might be me...


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

I just read through the article, and ken-n-nancy lays it out in detail on page 4 of comments.

The important note is to use the "average first frost" for your locale, and not go by the first time you see actual frost.

For me, average first frost in my location is October 15. I made my last last feeding on October 13.

As for when I started feeding, I renovated this fall, so I waited to see the grass plants put out their second leaf. This worked out to be around the end of September. (Seed down Aug 26.)

Next year I will start a few weeks earlier.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Sinclair said:


> I just read through the article, and ken-n-nancy lays it out in detail on page 4 of comments.


Comments?...

COMMENTS?!? Arrrggghhh...

I'm on it...

Some days... you know?...


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

BXMurphy said:


> Sinclair said:
> 
> 
> > I just read through the article, and ken-n-nancy lays it out in detail on page 4 of comments.
> ...


It's Friday, have a whiskey or two.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Sinclair said:


> It's Friday, have a whiskey or two.


Yeah, no kidding!

I just came back from reading all the comments. Ken and Nancy, g-man, and all the rest are really very helpful.

It's funny, you know? You wouldn't think something like this would be so complicated until... you try it yourself!

I'm glad you are here, Sinclair. Thank you for your help.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

BXMurphy said:


> Yeah, no kidding!
> 
> I just came back from reading all the comments. Ken and Nancy, g-man, and all the rest are really very helpful.
> 
> ...


We're all here because we have something to learn.

I joined because I couldn't (and still don't think I have) properly identify a grassy weed. At this point I'm just going to wait all winter and see what happens with it in the spring. :lol: :lol:


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

ken-n-nancy said:


> My criteria for _*stopped *_is that when I go out to mulch up the leaves on the lawn, at least 6-7 full days after the previous mowing/mulching, that there are _*ZERO grass clippings*_ from mowing. Not just a little bit of growth, but no growth.


+1. :thumbup:


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