# Milo + Scott's starter at overseed too much N?



## MichiganGreen (Aug 7, 2018)

Together is this too much nitrogen against the new seeds germinating? I'm preparing to put it all down but just want to hear thoughts.

Edit: other option might be to put down milo after I start to see germination, more of a pre frost deal, whether that would help going into winter I'm not sure? I didnt want to put it down early because I dont want to give the established grass any extra help to shade the seedlings even faster.

Thanks!


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## BarakaRS (Jun 23, 2018)

I faced the same dilemma myself and ultimately opted to forgo any fertilizer till about a week after seed down even though I was afraid of walking on my seed while pushing a rotary spreader. I decided to chance walking on the overseeded area because I didn't want my existing turf to spring to life and shade my hard work. I'm glad I held off on the fert because things are coming in great for me!

Here's what my schedule ended up being.
Aug 17 - scalp as low as I could go and bagged it up.
Aug 18 - Seed down
Aug 24 - Noticed KBG germination! Threw down slow release synthetic starter Fert at bag rate.

Today on September 1 things look great. Still watering. To be fair I also used PGR 2 days before bon my existing turf to further try and slow the growth and by the new KBG some more time to shine.

Hope that helps!

PS I have Milo on the ready and really wanted to put it down too, but I'm going to stick with the starter for now due to the P and K content.

I'd stick to the Scotts and add the Milo once you have a thicker turf in a few weeks. That's my plan at least.


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## MichiganGreen (Aug 7, 2018)

BarakaRS said:


> I faced the same dilemma myself and ultimately opted to forgo any fertilizer till about a week after seed down even though I was afraid of walking on my seed while pushing a rotary spreader. I decided to chance walking on the overseeded area because I didn't want my existing turf to spring to life and shade my hard work. I'm glad I held off on the fert because things are coming in great for me!
> 
> Here's what my schedule ended up being.
> Aug 17 - scalp as low as I could go and bagged it up.
> ...


It does...to be clear did you put ANYTHING down at seed or did you wait 2 weeks on both synthetic and milo?

My starter fert has weed preventer so considering putting that down with seed (first pass so I dont walk on the seed too much), then maybe milo a week later. Although honestly I'd rather walk on the seed than freshly germinated little sprouts.

Thoughts? Bottom line is I have 150 bucks of fert and 300 bucks of seed i dont want anything to go to waste! Tomorrow is seed day, have to make the decision...


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## BarakaRS (Jun 23, 2018)

I know exactly how you feel. Once the money is spent you need a return on that investment and the best lawn on the block!

So to be clear I did not put ANY fertilizer down with my seed, but I did use liquid Tenacity as a pre-emergent over the seed which is going to be a key difference in your case. It's my understanding that the active pre-emergent ingredient in that starter fertilizer you have is the same as what I put down in a liquid form. I suppose if I was in your shoes I would put the seed down with no fert and try to go a few days before putting the starter fert down in an effort to buy myself a little bit of time. I don't know how much it would matter by waiting a couple of days in regards to the weeds taking hold, but at least you're not giving all that nitrogen to the existing turf while the seed remains in seed form.

If I'm understanding your situation correctly, the goal is to give your seed the least amount of competition possible. The way I see it, the existing Turf is the main and only real competition at this point. The pre-emergent will help with weeds as a potential future competition, but right now the nitrogen in that fertilizer could potentially give the existing competition an additional edge over the grass seedlings.

Perhaps some others on the Forum might have a different opinion. I'd love to hear some more thoughts around the subject too.

Good luck to you and keep us posted!


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## MichiganGreen (Aug 7, 2018)

Thanks @BarakaRS .

I see your point but am debating meeting you halfway. Between the milo and scotts isnt one slow acting and the other fast acting? That would play into it.


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## BarakaRS (Jun 23, 2018)

@MichiganGreen Yes you are correct. The Milo is supposed to be slow acting and the Scott's is most likely faster. It's funny you said half way because originally (before I chickened out) I was planning on putting half Milo & half Starter Fert to get the best of both worlds. I eventually chickened out thinking the existing turf would take right off on me and leave my seeds in the dust. I'm sure science can recommend a course of proper action, but in my personal experience things got tricky.

I took the advice from Ryan Knorr's overseeding playlist on YouTube. He did a similar Overseed renovation a while ago and documented it here... Fall Lawn Renovation and Overseeding Steps: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzripA58GQvE94GkpIY-4T_s01EizvSpe

The irony in the whole thing for me is that after waiting a week to finally throw down the starter fert, we have had torrential rain showers every day here in West Michigan where I live. Makes me wonder if any of the grass even benefited from the fert or did it mostly wash away? Regardless, my turf is coming in nicely and it looks like success up to this point.

I wish you the same!


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

Starter + Milo is no problem.

There's no harm in walking on the seed on the day of seeding. It is much more damaging to walk on it a week later.


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## MichiganGreen (Aug 7, 2018)

Thanks all!


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## MichiganGreen (Aug 7, 2018)

@@Sinclair , @@BarakaRS 
Not to further confuse but how does "winterizer" factor in?


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## BarakaRS (Jun 23, 2018)

Not sure myself. Maybe a more senior member can shed light on that. I was wondering the same thing.

Does Winterizing need to be done at all?

If so, does it matter if you overseeded or not?


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## MichiganGreen (Aug 7, 2018)

BarakaRS said:


> Not sure myself. Maybe a more senior member can shed light on that. I was wondering the same thing.
> 
> Does Winterizing need to be done at all?
> 
> If so, does it matter if you overseeded or not?


Somebody help!
@@BarakaRS is winterizer in your plans? We have similar situations, both in Michigan and seem to be overseeding with milo and starter. This was my weekend and the rain has been doing it's best to hold be back. I picked up an yard of topsoil yesterday for my worst areas and got most of it down. Got a dose of rain this morning but looks clear at least for a few hours. If it can stay sunny, I have to scalp at minimum today. Will seed and fert tomorrow...


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Winterizer is the last app of fert you put on your lawn at the end of growing season. It should be as close to 100% water soluble N as you can find. This application is taken up by the turf and stored in the roots through the winter. When the soil begins to thaw in the spring, your grass roots will begin growing and looking for nutrients, as they are vigorous from the winterizer. When temps warm up further you're the first one on the block mowing. Your grass gets a head start. It's arguably the most important fert app.

Timing is the most important - it must be AFTER your last mowing, but BEFORE the ground freezes (not to be confused with first frost). If you throw down when grass is still growing, you will push more growth and use ip the N. If after ground freezes it will runoff and not absorb into soil

@MichiganGreen @BarakaRS hope this helps


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## BarakaRS (Jun 23, 2018)

@Jconnelly6b That does help! It's the very last app of the year and needs to be done in the window you described. Threading the needle between the lawn no longer growing due to the oncoming winter and the ground freezing over.

Am I correct in saying that this Fert app is going to be done so late that it's likely going to be done after one or more frosts?


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## MichiganGreen (Aug 7, 2018)

If I dont get the typical Scott's winterizer, any other recs? What's the typical NPK ratio on a winterizer....isnt it mostly potassium (K)? Also phosphorus....nitrogen is one it probably wont need.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

BarakaRS said:


> Am I correct in saying that this Fert app is going to be done so late that it's likely going to be done after one or more frosts?


Yes you are correct, it will be after a few frosts.



MichiganGreen said:


> If I dont get the typical Scott's winterizer, any other recs? What's the typical NPK ratio on a winterizer....isnt it mostly potassium (K)? Also phosphorus....nitrogen is one it probably wont need.


My notes show I put down my winterizer on 11/21/17 and it was a Lesco 30-0-05. This is what was recommended by my local SiteOne rep. My notes also say "winterizer should be all synthetic and high N, and equal P & K. Phosphorus is what transfers energy from roots to leaf."


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## MichiganGreen (Aug 7, 2018)

Thanks for this.... @@BarakaRS what is your plan? We are both Michiganders wanted to pick your brain. Have been fighting the storms this weekend to scalp. Need to scalp about 4k more tomorrow then mix my seed, milo, starter, and set up sprinklers.


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## BarakaRS (Jun 23, 2018)

@MichiganGreen I'm on a holding pattern now while I watch the grass grow. This coming weekend will be 3 weeks from seed down for my Reno and the storms have been brutal. Every. Night! I'm about 1.5 miles from Lake Michigan and we received 7" of rain since I put my starter fert down a week ago. I'm not convinced my lawn received the full benefit of that fertilizer with the torrential rain. Regardless, my grass is looking great. The KBG is in the "pout" phase of "sprout & pout" so I may apply more Fert the upcoming weekend.

My forcast for tomorrow just improved, so hopefully yours will too so that you can get your seed down and benefit from some of this free water. If you get too much washout from any additional rains, there is always the chance we get a late winter and maybe you have more time to get some additional seed down than we think. This is Michigan after all. Our weather changes by the hour. 😁


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## MichiganGreen (Aug 7, 2018)

@b@BarakaRS you arent kidding.

I thought i had everything lined up good to go and it's down to the stupidest, probably most basic things. Fired up the zero turn today for the scalp, put on the bagger and realized i still had mulch blades on. Switched them out to whatever I had lying around, standard OEM blades that were like butter knives. I just got home from a family bbq and finished the backyard under the lights and I picked up NOTHING in the bags. Dont get me wrong it cut it short but bagged zilch. Either the blades are that bad or they're installed upside down. I went over it 3 times different ways and cant decide if I have the motivation and energy to get the deck out, and try them the other way around, on top of everything else I have planned tomorrow. I think I'll wake up and the weather will determine my plan.....arg


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## BarakaRS (Jun 23, 2018)

Man I hate days like that. Hopefully your were able to make some progress today. In my neck of the woods we ended up getting rain all day which was the original forecast before it changed late yesterday to mostly sunny and then changed again last night to mostly cloudy, but then just rained so far all day. I suppose if you got the scalping done already you may be able to still apply seed in the rain provided it's not coming down too heavy and you are able to keep it dry inside the spreader.


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## MichiganGreen (Aug 7, 2018)

BarakaRS said:


> Man I hate days like that. Hopefully your were able to make some progress today. In my neck of the woods we ended up getting rain all day which was the original forecast before it changed late yesterday to mostly sunny and then changed again last night to mostly cloudy, but then just rained so far all day. I suppose if you got the scalping done already you may be able to still apply seed in the rain provided it's not coming down too heavy and you are able to keep it dry inside the spreader.


I had an EXTREMELY productive day. Aftet months of research, to finally be out there putting it all down felt fantastic. With my 5 sprinklers I am able to get about 85%coverage which I'm happy with. Or course as soon as everything went down and I hit the couch they issued a flood watch as the storms are about to roll in.....did you deal with any of that right off the bat?


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## BarakaRS (Jun 23, 2018)

Awesome! It does feel good to get the seed and products down! I had about 5 days of watering before the heavy rains took over my watering for me. We had 7" of water in the past week! Thankfully I believe most of my seed has already germinated so I'm guessing I had minimal washout if any at all. Either way though, I did not have flood conditions anywhere in my original plan LOL. Now you get to sit back and watch the grass grow! Cheers to your future lawn!!


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## MichiganGreen (Aug 7, 2018)

BarakaRS said:


> Awesome! It does feel good to get the seed and products down! I had about 5 days of watering before the heavy rains took over my watering for me. We had 7" of water in the past week! Thankfully I believe most of my seed has already germinated so I'm guessing I had minimal washout if any at all. Either way though, I did not have flood conditions anywhere in my original plan LOL. Now you get to sit back and watch the grass grow! Cheers to your future lawn!!


Cheers!


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