# Teach Me About Gutter Downspout Drains



## A3M0N

We've been in our house for a few months now, and we inherited some of those extendable corrugated downspout extenders. The grade around the foundation is a bit out of whack because it looks like previously the downspouts were allowed to just flood and sit around the house. That's another topic though.

I'd like to run some underground drains, but don't know all the ins and outs. I've been watching plenty of YouTube videos, and learned a lot so far, but still have some questions. I have three downspouts in pretty close proximity, all over dirt/yard. Can I connect those three together, run a corrugated pipe 10 or 12 feet from the house and dump it out into a pop up emitter in the lawn?

The other two downspouts are over concrete and I will likely have to tunnel under sidewalks and give each of those their own pipe and emitter because they're not really close together.

I can share some pictures and an overview of the house it if helps. Thanks!


----------



## Ware

Hi @A3M0N

At my current house I have flexible downspout adapters attached to black corrugated pipe that runs underground out to pop-up emitters in the yard. This is a relatively easy and inexpensive way to manage the water and I haven't had any significant issues. I've mulched a few of the green pop-up caps when scalping, and I used to have a few leaf clogs at the caps until I switched from the NDS pop-up caps to the StormDrain Clog Free hinged caps. Otherwise this setup has worked fine. They have been in the ground almost 10 years. I don't have any more than two downspouts connected to each pop-up emitter, and most of my runs are pretty short (6-20 feet).

All that said, I think the proper way to do it is to use catch basins, so at my new house I am installing NDS catch basins under each downspout and using PVC sewer/drain pipe instead of the black corrugated pipe. I have purchased NDS pop-ups from my local supply house, but only because I am installing catch basin filters in each box. If I was piping direct and/or not using filters I would definitely order the hinged caps I linked above. Also, instead of using the flat grates that come on a standard catch basin kit, I am purchasing the components separately and using the NDS Downspout Defender grates. They seem like a more robust design that is less likely to get covered up with mulch or debris. Atrium grates are another alternative.

All of that comes at a significant cost though. The setup I have where I live now was inexpensive - like $5 for a flexible downspout adapter, about $0.88/ft for the black corrugated pipe, and $20 for a pop-up emitter. At the new house I will probably have close to $100 in each of the catch basin setups, $1.38/ft in the in the 4" sewer pipe, and the same $20 in each pop-up emitter.

Here is a video that demonstrates using a pressure washer to install a PVC drain pipe under a sidewalk. He makes it look relatively easy, but I would probably run into a rock or something. :lol:


----------



## A3M0N

Thank you @Ware! What you have going on now looks like what I've been thinking for my house.

Are you going with PVC because it's stronger? The Apple Drains channel said that having an adapter is the proper way, as opposed to using a catch basin under the down spout. But I'll have to check how old the video is, things may have changed since then.


----------



## Ware

A3M0N said:


> Thank you @Ware! What you have going on now looks like what I've been thinking for my house.
> 
> Are you going with PVC because it's stronger? The Apple Drains channel said that having an adapter is the proper way, as opposed to using a catch basin under the down spout. But I'll have to check how old the video is, things may have changed since then.


Is this the video you are referencing? I watched that and I agree what he shows is probably not an ideal setup because some of the water could overshoot the catch basin grate during a heavy rain event; however, I think turning the downspout down toward the catch basin using the "S Method" solves that problem.


----------



## Ware

Again, I've never had any real issues with my downspouts directly connected to corrugated black pipe via flexible adapters, but I don't have gutter screens and I do see leaves, shingle granules and other debris on the ground around my pop-up emitters after heavy rainfall. I think what the filtered catch basins do is help keep most of that trash out of the underground piping. Is it worth it? I'm not going to lie - I did have some sticker shock. :lol:

As for PVC vs. corrugated black pipe, I think PVC is generally more durable and less prone to clogging, crushing, etc. If it does clog, it can be mechanically snaked out. All of the downspout drains at my new house will pass under a sidewalk or concrete curb edging, so while more expensive and more difficult to work with, my hope is the the PVC will remain trouble free for decades.

I'm anxious to hear what others have done and/or prefer.


----------



## A3M0N

Ware said:


> Is this the video you are referencing?


That's the one. The "s" method does make sense, so does the catch basin for debris.


----------



## MasterMech

Has anybody tried these into pipe? (corrugated or PVC)

https://www.homedepot.com/p/InvisaFlow-Flex-Grate-Downspout-Filter-4400/202516215

I've also got noisy downspouts that drive me bananas after a rain when they are just dripping. Pink, Pink, Pink - :lol:


----------



## A3M0N

MasterMech said:


> Has anybody tried these into pipe? (corrugated or PVC)
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/InvisaFlow-Flex-Grate-Downspout-Filter-4400/202516215
> 
> I've also got noisy downspouts that drive me bananas after a rain when they are just dripping. Pink, Pink, Pink - :lol:


I don't have any experience with these, but it looks like a fantastic idea!


----------



## 440mag

A3M0N said:


> ... Can I connect those three together, ...


My advice is: DO NOT.

While connecting downspout extensions (corrugated hose or pipe) may seem intuitive when it's not raining we learned the hard way that when you try to connect three (3) 4" hoses carrying water into ONE 4" hose you're gonna get the same thing we see when 3 lanes of traffic are abruptly reduced to one: backup!

In our case, the builder / previous owners doing exactly what you describe resulted in our basement leaking!

It was the 3rd or 4th contractor we contacted to try and resolve our foundation issues that asked, "_Where is the terminal end of each of the downspouts coming off your roof?_"

In an effort to reduce labor etc the builder took every opportunity they could to "junction" or connect the underground corrugated drain hose. And it created a nightmare in every spot whenever we got heavy rains.

Our yard was a mess for awhile and I can still feel the blisters and backache but, running a separate hose off each downspout solved all our issues!

I really screwed up not using hard pvc pipe too; I can already see where I'm gonna have clogging or crushing problems with that flexible corrugated hose; pvc otoh will last the lifetime of this house and adds another selling point when the time comes, IMO...


----------



## A3M0N

Thanks for sharing your experience @440mag! I've wondered about the longevity of the corrugated pipe.


----------



## macattack

If you have standard 2"x3" downspouts, you may want to consider going to 3"x4". My gutters always overflow with small downspouts, been working on changing over to the larger size. Then you can get PVC adapters to hook up to the pipe. Get the water away from the house at all costs.


----------



## bernstem

I have all my downspouts connected to underground PVC that leads to pop ups. My house is almost 100 years old and the downspouts used to connect to the sanitary sewer. The sewer company had a lot of problems due to water volume during heavy rains and paid to have the downspouts disconnected. I have no idea what it cost (other than a lot), but there was an engineering firm that drew up all the plans and supervised the entire project. I have three downspouts that all converge to one emitter. One is from the front of the house and two are from the side. The downspouts are 4 inch going into 4 inch PVC. They converge into an 6 inch pipe. I have never had a problem with water backing up. If you increase diameter each time you add pipe, then you should be fine.


----------



## Ware

@bernstem are the downspouts connected directly to the pipe via an adapter?


----------



## bernstem

Ware said:


> @bernstem are the downspouts connected directly to the pipe via an adapter?


No adapter. They just sit inside the pipe flange.


----------



## Ware

I'm still debating whether I should utilize the catch basins or just connect the downspouts direct. I like how low profile the setup is when the downspouts are piped straight into the ground, but I also see the benefits of catching debris before it enters the pipe.

I've also considered transitioning from the S&D pipe to corrugated pipe once I am outside the sidewalks. That would give me the benefits of the PVC under the areas that would be very difficult to replace, and the ease of installation/adjustability on the yard side of the sidewalks.

I'm in a situation where I need to get the pipe installed under the sidewalks before they are poured, but I don't know exactly what final grade is going to look like in the discharge areas.

Corrugated pipe would be easier to manipulate, and it would be easier to raise or lower a pop-up emitter if grade changes in the future (e.g. sand leveling). If there was ever a clog issue, I could just dig it back up to the edge of the sidewalk.


----------



## bernstem

@Ware With PVC if there is a clog, you can just snake the pipe. I'm not sure how well corrugated will do with a drain snake. FWIW, I have had the current drains for 2 years and other than leaves clogging the emitter and popping them off the pipe I have not had any issues. Two years is not very long, though.


----------



## jayhawk

@ware I think your original plan is the best. Trees near by? Roots will invade corregated joints, no? (What I've seen)

With a new roof (asphalt) you're going to have a lot of 'sand' coming. Your basins would handle most that doesn't stay in your gutters


----------



## Ware

I've settled in on catch basins with filters and corrugated pipe runs out to the pop-up emitters. I will be using the NDS Downspout Defender grates.

I wanted to run PVC drain pipe, but it was going to require a number of cuts/fittings to get some of the angles to work out. Our local supply house didn't even have some of the fittings I needed due to the PVC shortages (2021), and time is of the essence getting 9 of the 14 runs installed between forming and pouring our sidewalks, so the corrugated pipe won out. It is much easier to work with, and it will also allow me some flexibility to raise or lower basins/emitters to match final grade, etc.

All my runs are short (10-15 ft), and there are no tree roots near the house to contend with. The filters should help keep the pipes clear of debris, so I think it will work out just fine.


----------



## ltsibley

@Ware PVC is a pain to work with so I think that's a great decision. I have both in my yard and despised working with the PVC vs corrugated pipe. I also have a mixture of catch basins and downspouts connected directly and I will be swapping all to catch basins soon to help alleviate some of the debris making its way to the pipe. With that said, I've had a large majority of the corrugated pipe in place to 6 years and I have had no issues with clogging (and I have a decent amount of leaves/debris). I've actually never had a clog. I have run a snake through the pipe and it seemed to work fine but I hardly pulled out anything. Most of my pipe drains out of a curb drain but I do have a pop-up emitter in one spot as well, which only has one downspout connected but it actually gets a majority of the leaves from a tree...most of the debris gets pushed out through the pop-up emitter but I do usually scoop more debris out of that one (mainly after heavy rain) than I do on the curb drains. Where a curb drain can be used I'd definitely recommend but understand that's not always an option.


----------



## 440mag

bernstem said:


> ... The sewer company ... paid to have the downspouts disconnected. I have no idea what it cost (other than a lot), but there was an engineering firm that drew up all the plans and supervised the entire project. ....


 :shock: :shock: :shock:

Cowabunga, dude! That'd be the equivalent of winning the lottery for me ...

(I need your public works to talk to my public works! :lol: )


----------



## bernstem

440mag said:


> bernstem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... The sewer company ... paid to have the downspouts disconnected. I have no idea what it cost (other than a lot), but there was an engineering firm that drew up all the plans and supervised the entire project. ....
> 
> 
> 
> :shock: :shock: :shock:
> 
> Cowabunga, dude! That'd be the equivalent of winning the lottery for me ...
> 
> (I need your public works to talk to my public works! :lol: )
Click to expand...

I know, that is what I thought. The project was voluntary, but it amazes me that some people in my neighborhood passed.

If I remember correctly, the project had to do with lawsuits against the sewer company after repeatedly having sanitary sewage overflows during heavy rain and ignoring the problem. Eventually, people got mad enough to sue them and now they have to fix it. Have no doubt, though, the cost will be passed on to the consumer at some point. Given what the project cost at my house, though, it will be a very long time before the added cost in my sewer bill will catch up.


----------



## Tmank87

Be sure to look into double wall (smooth interior) corrugated pipe. They typically come in 20ft sticks.


----------



## Ware

He is a sample of the setup I am going with:


----------



## SodFace

Anyone have any good resources for cold areas? 2 neighbours has downspout work done for their patio installs this year and 1 did pop up connected direct to downspout. The other did direct connect too but with some holes in the section closest and a heating wire running through to melt ice. I guess the water would sit in the pipe going to the pop up until spring so when the roof melts it'll pour out next to the house? That can't be good?


----------



## Thick n Dense

I have some good info but is a long story, ill type up later.

This is what you want to use. 
https://www.homedepot.com/p/InvisaFlow-Flex-Grate-White-Downspout-Filter-4490/205076357


----------



## SodFace

Thick n Dense said:


> I have some good info but is a long story, ill type up later.
> 
> This is what you want to use.
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/InvisaFlow-Flex-Grate-White-Downspout-Filter-4490/205076357


Did you modify these? Seems many are reviewing that they allow a lot of water to flow out the opening. I saw people put plexiglass behind so the water stays in the pipe.


----------



## Thick n Dense

SodFace said:


> Thick n Dense said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have some good info but is a long story, ill type up later.
> 
> This is what you want to use.
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/InvisaFlow-Flex-Grate-White-Downspout-Filter-4490/205076357
> 
> 
> 
> Did you modify these? Seems many are reviewing that they allow a lot of water to flow out the opening. I saw people put plexiglass behind so the water stays in the pipe.
Click to expand...

No, I never noticed this phenomenon. I'll look during the next one.

I have older gutters that are smaller in size. 
2x3 " ish… these don't fill the opening and there's a gap around the fitting and the gutter.
I bet this issue only occurs with newer gutters where this whole cavity is taken up and the water rides the inside of the fitting. I could also see with a bad angle.

Or Leaves from the gutter will come down and sit on the grate of you don't clean off and this spit water out. I assumed this was a given, I could see a reviewer complaining about this. But in reality there isn't a good solution to this problem.

Now that I'm thinking about it, you could probably make a better one out of pvc and a trap door to clean out while retaining water. 
The nice part about this one is that it has a connector for the corrugated pipe. Whereas pvc would require pvc to corrugated adaptor
But mind you that these things are 8$ to build your own would cost that much in materials alone not considering time


----------



## surs73

MasterMech said:


> Has anybody tried these into pipe? (corrugated or PVC)
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/InvisaFlow-Flex-Grate-Downspout-Filter-4400/202516215
> 
> I've also got noisy downspouts that drive me bananas after a rain when they are just dripping. Pink, Pink, Pink - :lol:


I installed 5-6 of these around my house and I'd give them 2.5 stars. They do indeed keep debris out of the system but clog very easily and the water from the downspout will not "self clear" the clog. In fact, a single leaf will sometimes come down the gutter and block he grate causing all the water to shoot out onto the ground. More than once, I've had to go out in a driving rain to clear several that weren't working. If I had it to do over again, I'd spend the money for the 12 x 12 slanted cover over a buried catch basin.


----------



## SCGrassMan

@Ware maybe you can make a recommendation one way or the other on a variation of the catch basin. So I have two issues. One is the water from a downspout dumps water into a heavy clay area of my yard. The other issue, is right between the curb and the sidewalk, is the sidewalk got pushed up by a tree root at some point and the water collects there. I had wanted to run a pipe under the sidewalk and have a pop up at the curb, but I don't know if there is enough height difference from the sidewalk to the curb. The downspout is a good foot or more above, but my concern is having water sitting underneath that doesn't drain.

I could also excavate under that stretch between the curb and the sidewalk and replace with drainage rock and re-sod on top of it.

WWWD?


----------



## Ware

SCGrassMan said:


> @Ware maybe you can make a recommendation one way or the other on a variation of the catch basin. So I have two issues. One is the water from a downspout dumps water into a heavy clay area of my yard. The other issue, is right between the curb and the sidewalk, is the sidewalk got pushed up by a tree root at some point and the water collects there. I had wanted to run a pipe under the sidewalk and have a pop up at the curb, but I don't know if there is enough height difference from the sidewalk to the curb. The downspout is a good foot or more above, but my concern is having water sitting underneath that doesn't drain.
> 
> I could also excavate under that stretch between the curb and the sidewalk and replace with drainage rock and re-sod on top of it.
> 
> WWWD?


Can you post some photos?


----------



## SCGrassMan

@Ware sorry for the delay.

So I'm going to put a drain under that gutter right at the bottom, and go under the garden bed and across the lawn, then under the sidewalk and pop up near the curb. But the little strip by the curb is fairly flat, and the sidewalk is pushed up in that one spot, so water pools up there.

I was also thinking of taking that little patch of grass out, digging down a couple of feet, and just filling it with gravel and having it be a giant catch basin.


----------



## SCGrassMan

What do you think @Ware I think this thread got buried


----------



## Ware

SCGrassMan said:


> What do you think @Ware I think this thread got buried


I have no strong feelings. That looks like a difficult place to drain to.


----------



## SCGrassMan

Ware said:


> SCGrassMan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think @Ware I think this thread got buried
> 
> 
> 
> I have no strong feelings. That looks like a difficult place to drain to.
Click to expand...

I wonder how the town would feel about me plumbing it to the sewer line?


----------



## Ware

SCGrassMan said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SCGrassMan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think @Ware I think this thread got buried
> 
> 
> 
> I have no strong feelings. That looks like a difficult place to drain to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wonder how the town would feel about me plumbing it to the sewer line?
Click to expand...

I would say that's a big no no. I know my town spends a lot of money to help keep stormwater out of the wastewater process.

I can't tell if your curb is the same as I can see over on the median in your first photo, but have you considered a curb hole?


----------



## bernstem

SCGrassMan said:


> I wonder how the town would feel about me plumbing it to the sewer line?


They would probably view it as illegal.


----------



## SCGrassMan

Ware said:


> SCGrassMan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no strong feelings. That looks like a difficult place to drain to.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how the town would feel about me plumbing it to the sewer line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would say that's a big no no. I know my town spends a lot of money to help keep stormwater out of the wastewater process.
> 
> I can't tell if your curb is the same as I can see over on the median in your first photo, but have you considered a curb hole?
Click to expand...

That's a great idea! Mine is a curved curb, but something like this could still work. Maybe I could dig it up, put a foot of gravel at the bottom, and have a pipe up out of there so when that "trap" gets full it spills into the street?


----------



## Old Hickory

I hired a rainwater management company to move rainwater from my roof, around the house, and out into the yard. Previously, I had a damp and sometimes wet basement and some occasional dampness in a below-grade room. They gave me a drawing of the proposed work where they directly attached the downspouts to the french drains which then run around the house and spill out of pop-ups in the lawn. I questioned the direct attachment of the downspouts to the buried corrugated pipe as I thought I wanted catch basins. Right? Catch basins would give me an opening in the system where I can catch and clean out the gutter debris. Their answer was that a closed system works better because there is a pushing force of water down the downspouts that works with the pulling force of water from the exit or pop-ups. They might have used the word: hydrology. Anyway. I've had this system for around 5 years, it works beautifully, and have not needed to clean out any of the french drains only the debris at the pop-ups.

Hydrology?


----------



## Ware

Old Hickory said:


> I hired a rainwater management company to move rainwater from my roof, around the house, and out into the yard. Previously, I had a damp and sometimes wet basement and some occasional dampness in a below-grade room. They gave me a drawing of the proposed work where they directly attached the downspouts to the french drains which then run around the house and spill out of pop-ups in the lawn. I questioned the direct attachment of the downspouts to the buried corrugated pipe as I thought I wanted catch basins. Right? Catch basins would give me an opening in the system where I can catch and clean out the gutter debris. Their answer was that a closed system works better because there is a pushing force of water down the downspouts that works with the pulling force of water from the exit or pop-ups. They might have used the word: hydrology. Anyway. I've had this system for around 5 years, it works beautifully, and have not needed to clean out any of the french drains only the debris at the pop-ups.
> 
> Hydrology?


You probably have gutter screens to keep debris out of the downspouts?


----------



## Old Hickory

I do have gutter screens.


----------



## Magnolia

Bumping this because I can't find any other discussions online about the NDS catch basins. I just installed a ~40' pvc run to my front lawn and when I tested the catch basin system water pours out of the outlet connection. Installation videos I've seen online suggest using silicone to form a water tight seal (I didn't) so I'm going to reset it tomorrow, but just wondering if anyone has any experience/suggestions. Thanks in advance.


----------



## carmenamos

During the installation of gutters, it is important to create an airtight connection and that will not let water through.


----------

