# Best/Most Affordable herbicide for Poa Annua



## bmw (Aug 29, 2018)

What do you think is the best or most affordable herbicide for Poa Annua in a zoysia lawn? I'm having some issues, my fall pre-M obviously got washed out with the insanely wet winter. Just confirmed my city has received 26 inches of rain since Jan 1st. TWENTY SIX INCHES. The Pre-Em doesn't have a prayer with this, does it?


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## Mister Bill (Apr 12, 2019)

bmw said:


> What do you think is the best or most affordable herbicide for Poa Annua in a zoysia lawn? I'm having some issues, my fall pre-M obviously got washed out with the insanely wet winter. Just confirmed my city has received 26 inches of rain since Jan 1st. TWENTY SIX INCHES. The Pre-Em doesn't have a prayer with this, does it?


When it comes to POA, best and affordable are not an option for post treatment. :lol:

Am I assuming correctly you already have growing POA? Or are you asking if it is too late to use pre-m? :?


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## bmw (Aug 29, 2018)

Mister Bill said:


> bmw said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think is the best or most affordable herbicide for Poa Annua in a zoysia lawn? I'm having some issues, my fall pre-M obviously got washed out with the insanely wet winter. Just confirmed my city has received 26 inches of rain since Jan 1st. TWENTY SIX INCHES. The Pre-Em doesn't have a prayer with this, does it?
> ...


I'm saying I applied Pre-M back in the fall and again about 2 weeks ago, but I think all the rain washed it out. I've got little baby poa, not much seeds yet, but I'm sure that's next.


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## claydus (Jun 2, 2019)

I use one of these when i see a little bit of POA showing up in my lawn. Quick and easy.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

claydus said:


> I use one of these when i see a little bit of POA showing up in my lawn. Quick and easy.


No risk of resistance unless Poa develops a mutation where their foliage is composed of Asbestos. Would not put it above Poa to do such a thing.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

I just scalped mine down to chop seed heads of the Poa Annua.

It hit 85 degrees F today.

Sunshine is free. It kills Poa cheapest.

Or you can buy Revolver for $250+....


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Cheapest, with two different modes of action - Blanket application of glyphosate + simazine, if you can tolerate potential damage.

If you cannot tolerate damage, Simazine + Negate is probably the cheapest secondary option.
Otherwise, simazine + monument, simazine + revolver, or simazine + katana.


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## Chrissykr (Jul 8, 2019)

I am hit *hard* with POA annua. I did two apps of pre emergent last fall, I guess it failed with all the weeds and poa annua I have. Two weeks ago I sprayed the yard with the winter weed image. The weeds are dying pretty well and the poa annua is starting to yellow. There is so much though that I will have to wait to see how effective it was. My neighbors on either side are killing me with all the weeds.


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## Mister Bill (Apr 12, 2019)

My yard abuts up to a POA farm and I fought this for years, as the neighbor doesn't know and could not care less about lawn care. To them, if its green, it's good. And waiting until the yard goes to seed is the best time to mow, the windier the better. I say this only give perspective; one, my yard is virtually weed free year in and year out, even with the adversities noted, and two, if applying pre-m is properly timed and the coverage is even, break outs like explained above should not be occurring. Blaming the weather or other outside influences may make a person feel better, but in the end, that certain someone is not doing something right. Do not take offense, as I mean none, I have been there and done the same. I have always been a lawn nut of sorts, but it wasn't until I decided to get serious about pre-m and how it technically works, did I get a handle on the weeds. I'm seeing people say they did a split app then, and another now, yada, yada, yada, but in the course of events, that means squat. Going through the motions is not the same as actually following the label and doing what is necessary to make the effort meaningful. A participation trophy event this is not.


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## falconsfan (Mar 25, 2019)

Mister Bill said:


> My yard abuts up to a POA farm and I fought this for years, as the neighbor doesn't know and could not care less about lawn care. To them, if its green, it's good. And waiting until the yard goes to seed is the best time to mow, the windier the better. I say this only give perspective; one, my yard is virtually weed free year in and year out, even with the adversities noted, and two, if applying pre-m is properly timed and the coverage is even, break outs like explained above should not be occurring. Blaming the weather or other outside influences may make a person feel better, but in the end, that certain someone is not doing something right. Do not take offense, as I mean none, I have been there and done the same. I have always been a lawn nut of sorts, but it wasn't until I decided to get serious about pre-m and how it technically works, did I get a handle on the weeds. I'm seeing people say they did a split app then, and another now, yada, yada, yada, but in the course of events, that means squat. Going through the motions is not the same as actually following the label and doing what is necessary to make the effort meaningful. A participation trophy event this is not.


So do you have a constructive suggestion?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

That's amazing because when talking to the university professors that study pre-em, they are having a hell of a time forecasting how long pre-ems will last each season; due to droughts, excess rain, GDD, Soil type variations, soil microbes, etc. all having an impact on chemical longevity.


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

falconsfan said:


> So do you have a constructive suggestion?


He said pre-em......
Pre-em is way more affordable than the post-em options.


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## falconsfan (Mar 25, 2019)

Gilley11 said:


> falconsfan said:
> 
> 
> > So do you have a constructive suggestion?
> ...


I get it but OP and many of us did put down Pre M with poor results due to very wet weather in the south. We are now dealing with the aftermath.


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## Mister Bill (Apr 12, 2019)

Movingshrub said:


> That's amazing because when talking to the university professors that study pre-em, they are having a hell of a time forecasting how long pre-ems will last each season; due to droughts, excess rain, GDD, Soil type variations, soil microbes, etc. all having an impact on chemical longevity.


It's not amazing in the least. You bring up a valid point, but one that is not within the context of my response. When numerous weed free yards are in the same locale as another that is a salad bar of weeds, weather is not a legitimate argument for the failure. If rain washed out an application, if the window of oportunity was missed, or the product was incorrectly applied, etc., adjust accordingly and take measures to counter the event. Excuses are useless, results are priceless.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@Mister Bill

I'm willing to meet you part of the way.

Some quantity of applications included messed up applications, but I don't think 100% of break-through is due to a messed up application.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

Simazine.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Movingshrub said:


> @Mister Bill
> 
> I'm willing to meet you part of the way.
> 
> Some quantity of applications included messed up applications, but I don't think 100% of break-through is due to a messed up application.


The weather always wins... even if you do everything correctly. I got lucky this year and didn't have any Poa in my yard. The neighbor's and most businesses in the area are LOADED with poa annua. By lucky I mean I must have timed my fall app appropriately, got it watered in using irrigation system, and didn't have any crazy rain the following week.

Here's to hoping I get lucky with my summer app as well and get better control of the spurge this year.


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## Mister Bill (Apr 12, 2019)

Movingshrub said:


> @Mister Bill
> 
> I'm willing to meet you part of the way.
> 
> Some quantity of applications included messed up applications, but I don't think 100% of break-through is due to a messed up application.


Just part of the way? :shock: Well, let's work with that. :lol:

First and foremost, I wasn't implying 100% of break throughs are applicator error. Where I am parting ways is the mindset of putting down a split app in September, doing nothing else until February/March, and then blaming weather as the culprit for a bumper crop of weeds.

Let's assume the pre emergent was applied correctly. The important factor here now is how long the pre emergent remains active in the soil. This, I believe, is where those having problems with breakouts are going off the rails. Looking at label rates, one can determine enough product was applied to last six months. But in reality, the winter was unusually warm and the efficacy stopped after 3-4 months because the pre emergent broke down sooner. Increased microbe activity due to, in part, higher soil temperatures is what breaks down pre-m, not water. Once pre-m has bound to the soil, excessive rainfall becomes much less of an issue than soil temperature. Yes, pre-m can move in soil, and yes, water can promote other events that can lead to this movement, but diving down that rabbit hole would entail a lengthy explanation most likely not pertinent to this discussion.

In summary, there are many myths about pre-emergent that continually keep getting passed off as truths. Until fiction is removed from the equation, breakouts will continue to occur simply from a lack of understanding of how pre-m actually works. Therefore, I maintain the quantity of breakouts in home lawns from outlying occurrences is a mere fraction of those caused by application error or lack of monitoring after the initial application.


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## Mister Bill (Apr 12, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> > @Mister Bill
> ...


Not at my house it doesn't. :lol: But, I would rather be lucky than good any day. :thumbup:


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Mister Bill said:


> Not at my house it doesn't. :lol: But, I would rather be lucky than good any day. :thumbup:


I stopped doing split apps and have had much better results, even with the longer interval between treatments. In defense of split apps, I was probably the primary factor in it being less successful. With such mild winters here, I feel I'm better off just hitting it with 6-month apps twice a year and time it to be strong for my problematic weeds (poa in winter and spurge in summer).


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## Mister Bill (Apr 12, 2019)

falconsfan said:


> Mister Bill said:
> 
> 
> > My yard abuts up to a POA farm and I fought this for years, as the neighbor doesn't know and could not care less about lawn care. To them, if its green, it's good. And waiting until the yard goes to seed is the best time to mow, the windier the better. I say this only give perspective; one, my yard is virtually weed free year in and year out, even with the adversities noted, and two, if applying pre-m is properly timed and the coverage is even, break outs like explained above should not be occurring. Blaming the weather or other outside influences may make a person feel better, but in the end, that certain someone is not doing something right. Do not take offense, as I mean none, I have been there and done the same. I have always been a lawn nut of sorts, but it wasn't until I decided to get serious about pre-m and how it technically works, did I get a handle on the weeds. I'm seeing people say they did a split app then, and another now, yada, yada, yada, but in the course of events, that means squat. Going through the motions is not the same as actually following the label and doing what is necessary to make the effort meaningful. A participation trophy event this is not.
> ...


@falconsfan Sorry for the late response, but I overlooked your question. I am not experienced with Zoysia, but I can share what I would do with Bermuda. It may be the same, I do not know for certain, though.

In my opinion, regardless of grass type, being proactive rather than reactive is key to keeping weeds at bay. Starting with the first app in the fall, if a gully washer occurs before the pre-m has had a chance to bind to the soil and form a barrier, I would suggest doing a follow up app and then switch MOA for the late winter/early spring app to adhere to max annual label rate. I may even do split apps at the proper rates every two months throughout the winter if weather continued to be problematic. By using split applications closer together, the chances of going into prime germination season with an effective barrier increase dramatically. If it is determined the conditions are good for a break through, I would also do a blanket application of a post emergent timed to prime germination periods to nip it in the bud, so to speak. If that means accepting that the turf may be dinged a bit, it's a small price to pay for a weed free lawn at green up.

If we are still talking about POA, it is merciless. Whatever it takes, do not allow it to mature. If the world was nuked tomorrow, the one thing that would still exist afterwards is cockroaches and poa annua.


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## Mister Bill (Apr 12, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> Mister Bill said:
> 
> 
> > Not at my house it doesn't. :lol: But, I would rather be lucky than good any day. :thumbup:
> ...


See how you are, undermining everything I just said to falconsfan. :lol:

Here in my area, experience has led me to doing a 1/2 rate in September and two 1/4 rates in late January and mid March, give or take, dependent on soil temperature at the time. I am virtually weed free with only an occasional clump here and there of POA at the properly lines, but I zap it as soon as I see it. Hey, I say whatever works is always the best answer.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I don't have a crabgrass issue so I don't feel pressure to time the app early in the spring with the soil temps. I do get some crabgrass but it is nothing I can't handle by pulling. My biggest summer issues are buttonweed and spurge. Since spurge is a late bloomer, I'm timing my summer app a little later this year (late April). I split the app last year in February and April and I had spurge like never before. It could have just been coincidence but this year I'm going to throw a full 6-month app at it. 
Contrary to a lot of folks on here, I have only been doing this for a few years so I am still trying to figure out what works best for my area. My yard looks great with just putting some effort into it. It'll be next level when I get it all figured out. That is... as long as the weather doesn't throw me a curve ball.


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## Mister Bill (Apr 12, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> I don't have a crabgrass issue so I don't feel pressure to time the app early in the spring with the soil temps. I do get some crabgrass but it is nothing I can't handle by pulling. My biggest summer issues are buttonweed and spurge. Since spurge is a late bloomer, I'm timing my summer app a little later this year (late April). I split the app last year in February and April and I had spurge like never before. It could have just been coincidence but this year I'm going to throw a full 6-month app at it.
> Contrary to a lot of folks on here, I have only been doing this for a few years so I am still trying to figure out what works best for my area. My yard looks great with just putting some effort into it. It'll be next level when I get it all figured out. That is... as long as the weather doesn't throw me a curve ball.


There are as many opinions on yard care as there are people with lawn mowers. There is no right or wrong way if the desired results are consistently achieved. As you say, there are numerous long time lawn masters here who have stunning lawns year in and year out. I raise my hat to each and every one of them.

I didn't mean to derail the thread, but in my defense, I was left unsupervised. I'll crawl back into my hole now.


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