# Toro flex 21 vs JD 220E



## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

Ok looking at getting one of these two mowers. I understand a lot of the pros and cons of each. i believe they are pretty equal as far as design with the main difference being the JD with the electric motor for the reel.

Toro flex 21
I am leaning towards the flex 21 but the only thing holding me back is I believe the Kawasaki fe120 is no longer produced. I am going to be buying from an auction and what if I end up having to repower? I will have to find a different motor that hopefully fits. This is really the only negative in my eyes. Also I could not find it but what is the max height of cut with out the kit installed.

JD 220e
The Honda motor is readily available and relatively cheap if I have to replace. My concern on it is the electric motor component. To me it is one extra thing that could possibly go wrong.

I am really leaning towards the toro. The fe120 motor is the only snag for me right now. Am I overthinking it. Is it relatively simple to repower with say a Honda gx engine? Maybe someone can ease my mind about this. I will be bidding in the weeks auction that is going on right now. I understand I can get a great deal but I also run a risk of getting something that I a, going to have to put a bit of work into hence why my question about the motor.


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## Alan (Apr 23, 2017)

The Toro HOC range is: 1/16"-19/64" 
pdfstream.manualsonline.com/f/f9f42c01-efbd-4228-b55f-a5cc9d454a3a.pdf

I think the JD may go up close to an inch. I haven't Googled it.


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## Jacob_S (May 22, 2018)

220e will cut higher than an inch, around 1.25 if i remember correctly. I am currently running mine at 1" with room to go up if need be. When I bid on my 220 I was really wanting a Toro GM1600, but got out bid on the one I was bidding on. I said screw it and bid on this 220e and glad I did, this thing is a beast.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

Alan said:


> The Toro HOC range is: 1/16"-19/64"
> pdfstream.manualsonline.com/f/f9f42c01-efbd-4228-b55f-a5cc9d454a3a.pdf
> 
> I think the JD may go up close to an inch. I haven't Googled it.


Dang that is a lot lower on the toro than I thought. Just barely over a quarter inch. I thought it was closer to .5 inches. If I put new brackets on it will the groomer still be usable? It is a 2008 model if that makes a difference. Maybe someone who has one with a groomer can weigh in? @Redtenchu @Colonel K0rn


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

Jacob_S said:


> 220e will cut higher than an inch, around 1.25 if i remember correctly. I am currently running mine at 1" with room to go up if need be. When I bid on my 220 I was really wanting a Toro GM1600, but got out bid on the one I was bidding on. I said screw it and bid on this 220e and glad I did, this thing is a beast.


You ever worry about the electric reel drive motor going out? I looked it up and it is just under $500 to replace. That really is the only concern of mine when it comes to the 220e


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## Alan (Apr 23, 2017)

Yeah, I don't know, I was just reading the specs on the .pdf. I like the short footprint of the Toro, the JD to me seems long(front to back). I have never used either and I have never seen the Toro in person, but I have seen the JD...FWIW(not much...lol)


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## Jacob_S (May 22, 2018)

Not really, I mean I'm sure it will at some point then it will be dig in all corners of the web to find the least expensive replacement. 
Also not sure if the flex does this but the 220e has onboard backlap ability with the flip of a switch.


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

You'll need to know the model # of the Flex for the max HOC, some newer models max at .295 inches (7.5 mm), older models max at .5 inches 12.7mm. I love my Flex, but if I had a choice.... I'd buy the JD 220E everytime.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

Redtenchu said:


> You'll need to know the model # of the Flex for the max HOC, some newer models max at .295 inches (7.5 mm), older models max at .5 inches 12.7mm. I love my Flex, but if I had a choice.... I'd buy the JD 220E everytime.


What makes the 220e better in your eyes? Is it just the ability to match hoc with the clip rate?

Also here is the model number. Not sure where I would find the info on max height of cut

04022-280000913


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Motor power is not that important on a reel. Its very different than a rotatory.


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## UGADawg (May 10, 2017)

Ral1121 said:


> Alan said:
> 
> 
> > The Toro HOC range is: 1/16"-19/64"
> ...


All of the Flex21 mowers at the weeks auction look like they go up to .5". Only 2 of the listed flex21s will accept a high hoc bracket as the groomers are not compatible with the bracket. The listed hoc in the manuals is based off of the micro cut bedknife.

Lot#:
4202 cutting unit (don't quote me on this)
30028 - Looks to be the best out of the lots
30029 - its a little dirty but i wouldn't let that stop you from bidding on it. 
30032A - might need a replacement reel

4200 cutting unit (don't quote me on this)
30030 - reel is really rusty
30031 - will accept High HOC kit but reel is really rusty
30215 - serial number is scratched off but i think this might be a much older unit
30215A - serial number is scratched off but i think this might be a much older unit, and it is missing the front roller


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Ral1121 said:


> What makes the 220e better in your eyes? Is it just the ability to match hoc with the clip rate?


On board backlapping.
Clip rate adjustment.
Max HOC above 1inch.

Everything else is about the same, but the 3 things listed above would tip the pendulum for me.


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Ral1121 said:


> Also here is the model number. Not sure where I would find the info on max height of cut
> 
> 04022-280000913


Max HOC is .50 inches... .75 inches with optional brackets.

https://www.scribd.com/document/57829235/Toro-GM-Flex-18-21-Specs#


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

@UGADawg @Redtenchu

How sure are yall about the .5 cut height.

Reason I ask is because when I look in the owner's manual for that model number 04022, it shows it as 19/64. Look at page 7-2 of the service manual.

https://issuu.com/negimachi/docs/06149sl

Is there somewhere else you are finding this info?


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

Sorry if you feel like I am bugging y'all about this. I just want to make sure I get this right if I go the flex 21 route and don't end up with an expensive mistake


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Ral1121 said:


> Sorry if you feel like I am bugging y'all about this. I just want to make sure I get this right if I go the flex 21 route and don't end up with an expensive mistake


You could always choose the 220E and not miss any sleep.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

Redtenchu said:


> Ral1121 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry if you feel like I am bugging y'all about this. I just want to make sure I get this right if I go the flex 21 route and don't end up with an expensive mistake
> ...


True I am really starting to lean that way unless I can find out for sure. Just seems there is conflicting info coming from Toro published manuals.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Ral1121 said:


> Ok looking at getting one of these two mowers. I understand a lot of the pros and cons of each. i believe they are pretty equal as far as design with the main difference being the JD with the electric motor for the reel.
> 
> Toro flex 21
> I am leaning towards the flex 21 but the only thing holding me back is I believe the Kawasaki fe120 is no longer produced. I am going to be buying from an auction and what if I end up having to repower? I will have to find a different motor that hopefully fits. This is really the only negative in my eyes. Also I could not find it but what is the max height of cut with out the kit installed.
> ...


If you are worried about ease of service and replacement part cost, why not a fixed head mower? There are herds of Toro GM1000/1600s, Deere 220/260SLs, or Jacobsen GK522/526s out there with excellent OEM and aftermarket parts support. They cost less to acquire, and don't require an electrical engineering/software engineering background to troubleshoot. I very highly doubt that a floating head mower will make such a significant difference in your lawns appearance that your neighbors will go and trade in their now inadequate fixed-head greensmowers.  :lol:


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

@MasterMech

I have thought about that but these are the best mowers being sold at auction right now. Where else can I find mowers for a few hundred?

Maybe you can answer this question too

I would like one with a groomer. My thinking is the groomer would prevent the need of verticutting. Is this true?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Ral1121 said:


> ...My thinking is the groomer would prevent the need of verticutting. Is this true?


No.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

@Ware

What is the function of the groomer?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Ral1121 said:


> What is the function of the groomer?


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## Steverino (Dec 14, 2017)

I've got a jd 220e with a groomer, a jd 220a with a groomer, a toro 1600 and a toro 800. They all cut very similarly I can tell you. If one has a groomer in your choices, I would go with that, also if it has a catcher, it's a plus. Adding those things later would be pricey. The transport wheels are not that critical to have but is a plus if they do. I could do without those ok.... the Honda's carbs are cheap to replace is a plus. Let me know if you want me to get more detail or pics. If you were close, I'd let you try em...
Edit: I guess by definition, you'd call them groomers


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## DTCC_Turf (May 26, 2018)

Yeah a groomer, set up correctly, will just promote a denser, more upright growth habit. Unlike the video slightly though, I've always heard they be set 1/3 the height of cut down into the canopy.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Ral1121 said:


> @MasterMech
> 
> I have thought about that but these are the best mowers being sold at auction right now. Where else can I find mowers for a few hundred?
> 
> ...


Every auction I've seen recently offers both fixed-head mowers and floating head mowers.

A groomer does not fully replace verticut ring but it will reduce the frequency of which it needs to be done.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

So an update. I stopped by a local toro golf service center. Starting talking and seeing what they had in their boneyard.

On all flex's. Max hoc is .2955 stock with no groomer.
If it has a groomer max hoc is just under .500. the high hoc bracket are not compatible with the groomer bc they are already on the unit once you put the groomer on.

I did find a 2013 gm1000 with groomer that started right up and ran smooth. It needed a few things though.

Needs
New reel and bearings
On off switch
Lights(already wired just missing)
On off switch for lights

What would you expect to be a good price on a unit in this condition knowing you need to replace the reel?


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Ral1121 said:


> So an update. I stopped by a local toro golf service center. Starting talking and seeing what they had in their boneyard.
> 
> On all flex's. Max hoc is .2955 stock with no groomer.
> If it has a groomer max hoc is just under .500. the high hoc bracket are not compatible with the groomer bc they are already on the unit once you put the groomer on.
> ...


You will spend about $400 (parts only) putting a reel and bedknife plus bearings in that unit. I would say it's prob worth about $6-700 max.


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Ral1121 said:


> On all flex's. Max hoc is .2955 stock with no groomer.


This is not true. It depends on the year of the mower.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

@Redtenchu

Tat is what the tech told me. I even specifically asked about the 2100 and newest 2120.

Reason I asked is I just found a deal on a 2014 flex 2100 with groomer. If it goes to .500 I am getting it.


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Ral1121 said:


> Tat is what the tech told me. I even specifically asked about the 2100 and newest 2120.


That sounds right for the 2100 and 2120, but not all Flex Models. I can attest (I own them) the 2004 and 2008 Flex21 Models can reach .5 Max HOC stock or with a groomer and .75 with the optional high brackets (groomer won't fit with these brackets). I still feel a JD220E is a better option for you if one is within your price range.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

@Redtenchu

I get what you are saying about the 220e. I have not seen any really in my price range. Only ones I have seen are the 2 in the weeks auction.

For some reason going into this, I have had my eyes set on a flex. Now that I found a great deal on the 2100, it makes it even harder to look at something else. I might actually pick up 2 of them and try and sell the second one. Only draw on these is the have 14 blade reels but I feel it is such a good deal I can look past it for these newer great condition models available.


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Ral1121 said:


> For some reason going into this, I have had my eyes set on a flex. Now that I found a great deal on the 2100, it makes it even harder to look at something else. I might actually pick up 2 of them and try and sell the second one. Only draw on these is the have 14 blade reels but I feel it is such a good deal I can look past it for these newer great condition models available.


I understand, I'm glad you are learning everything you can before making a purchase. I picked mine up blind and didn't realize it had such a limited HOC, it's been a great mower and has really helped me push the lawn (and myself) to the limit.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

@Redtenchu

That is another reason for wanting the flex is to push myself.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

To answer your question, I don't have a groomer on my Flex. Sorry I can't add more to the discussion than this.


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## WillyT (Jun 26, 2019)

Is the auction in San Antonio? Do you have details on it as I will be in the market for a GM1000 soon. Thanks



Ral1121 said:


> @Redtenchu
> 
> That is another reason for wanting the flex is to push myself.


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## mattcoughlin (Jul 8, 2018)

I can't speak for the toro, but I LOVE my 220e. The electric motor is awesome! Motor doesn't bog down when you take off like my 260c did and its a breeze to backlap. I also really like being able to adjust the clip rate when i drop down to 1/2" in the fall.


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