# Rookie with Big Project (Advice Needed)



## MrMonaco (Jan 31, 2021)

I just removed 30 trees and ivy. Had land graded with slight slope. It is about 9000 sq feet. I am thinking about seeding Monaco (Bermuda). I still have some wood chips and roots to get out my soil. I put out Humichar for now, but would like recommendations on fertilizer, seed, and other gotchas. I am leading towards Monaco or Blackjack because I have a few pines surrounding yard. What recommendations do you have for a yard rookie? I am planning to seed during 2nd week in May, any preparatory work that will yield excellent results?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Why do you wanna do seed over sprigs?


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## Buffalolawny (Nov 24, 2018)

Put as much organic matter you can into the soil before you have to seed


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## Theycallmemrr (May 16, 2019)

I would do plugs or sod if it is in the budget.


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## McDiddles (Feb 24, 2020)

warm season seed is going to be hard to establish is that soil. I'd recommend sod. Either way you'll need to prep with humus or compost. I wouldn't do either with that as my base, without some amendment.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Sprigs, sod or plugs is my opinion.


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## MrMonaco (Jan 31, 2021)

I keep hearing sprigs over sod, but wouldn't I need a professional to assist with that? Tiffway 419 was maybe $4500 - $5000 installed. Seed is about 1/5 the cost and higher/similar quality. You are thinking I couldn't successfully amend the soil prior to mid May of this year?


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## MrMonaco (Jan 31, 2021)

Any recommendations for a company that can discuss sprigging this yard in Metro Atlanta? Do they include seed and would the yard fill in this year? I am attempting to save on cost because I need to make several other purchases for the yard. Added picture of space before ivy (multiple rounds of treatment) and tree removal.

Thanks again!


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## CLT49er (Jun 19, 2020)

Many folks say sprigging or plugging is faster than seeding. I'd like to see a test.

The other benefit of sprigging/plugging is that you can retain the same bermuda cultivar that is already in your yard. What grass type is in the rest of your yard?

My neighbors seeded 1k ft last July with common bermuda and it filled in within a month. They do, however, now have common and tifuf mixed. They are less particular and dont care.

For budget reasons:
If no concern on mixing cultivars, then I would do seed. Try to rough up the soil a bit with rake, broadcast the seed, lay a thin layer of compost on top, and keep it wet. Once it germinates then apply starter fertilizer. Hopefully by July 4th you would have decent coverage. Also, now is a good time for a soil test in case you need to address any major issues.

Many ways to skin this cat. Just depends on budget and preferences. I could be wrong on the sprigging or plugging speed. But would love to hear different.

And oh. Weeds will be abundant since you arent doing a preemergent (and you shouldnt this winter/spring/summer!) Treating weeds will be a different discussion and debate. I'd wait until summer to say what progress you are making to address.


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## MrMonaco (Jan 31, 2021)

@CLT49er I had ivy and a fair number of tall pines. Front yard is centipede, which I dont care for because of it's poor tolerance to traffic. I never had any grass in the space before. I will follow your advice on seeding and fertilizing it. Will provide updates as I move things forward.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I still don't recommend going with the seeding route but it all is based on what you are comfortable with. There are more expenses involved with seeding that just the initial investment in material. Do you have a plan for erosion control? I also most certainly don't recommend mixing cultivars. Either way, keep a journal and take lots of pictures throughout the process.


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## LoCutt (Jul 29, 2019)

My 8,000 sq feet lawn was sprigged and it was covered in 6 weeks. Never doubt the will of bermuda grass to grow and spread! It wasn't the first lawn I sprigged, but it was the second. Sprigging makes higher quality turf than plugs or sod; both suffer in the "leveling procedure" necessary. You can sprig zoysia (and other grasses) but I'm not sure about the establishment rate. The biggest factor in success is water. It needs to be watered lightly multiple times per day. You essentially dump grass bits on the ground, and these bits need to stay moist. After about two weeks, I increased the zone times and decreased the number of waterings. By 6 weeks I was down to watering once per day. Sprigging is probably not a good idea if you don't have an irrigation system. Fresh sprigs make a big difference too. Mine was harvested in the morning and installed late afternoon... with a 300 mile trip in between.

Sprigs are just pieces of grass that have at least 3 joints on them. When you do it, it'll look like you spread grass clippings. Several neighbors asked how I got the clippings to grow.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

LoCutt said:


> When you do it, it'll look like you spread grass clippings. Several neighbors asked how I got the clippings to grow.


I hope you either told them it was magic or made up something really dumb. I got this mental image of a neighbor spreading grass clippings over a bare spot wondering why it didn't work for him... :lol:


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## LoCutt (Jul 29, 2019)

Darth_V8r said:


> I hope you either told them it was magic or made up something really dumb.


I actually tried to explain it to one guy. I got the blank stare back because he knew clippings wouldn't work.


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## MrMonaco (Jan 31, 2021)

From everything I read i would do Harley raking first, spread seed about 1/4 to 1/8 deep, then use a heavy roller to embed it, cover with compost, then water frequently to keep the seed bed moist. I dont have an irrigation system, but I was under the impression that if I rolled the seed in it will help protect against erosion. I will be sure to take pictures and document steps.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Maybe rent a slice-seeder? pushes the seeds into the ground a bit and minor benefit of aeration too.


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## MrMonaco (Jan 31, 2021)

I chatted with Sandman sprigging, gentlemans name was Richard. The required machine is too large to get back in yard area. He did recommend Arden 15, says the grass is absolutely beautiful. I also spoke with a representative from Barenburg (Monaco or Panam). He basically said Bermuda will grow without much work in GA. He recommended the Panam if I plan to keep it at an inch and a half.

PS. If any of you are engineers we could make a bundle designing a manual reel mower that you could ride like a bike. Lawn fanatics like me want the beauty of a reel mowed lawn, but who wants to purchase and maintain a $10k reel mower, or explain to the wife why it is a must have acquisition? There is definitely a market for it. Lol


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

MrMonaco said:


> I chatted with Sandman sprigging, gentlemans name was Richard. The required machine is too large to get back in yard area. He did recommend Arden 15, says the grass is absolutely beautiful. I also spoke with a representative from Barenburg (Monaco or Panam). He basically said Bermuda will grow without much work in GA. He recommended the Panam if I plan to keep it at an inch and a half.
> 
> PS. If any of you are engineers we could make a bundle designing a manual reel mower that you could ride like a bike. Lawn fanatics like me want the beauty of a reel mowed lawn, but who wants to purchase and maintain a $10k reel mower, or explain to the wife why it is a must have acquisition? There is definitely a market for it. Lol


This engineer bought a used mower for $1,300 and made a go of it. Actually, the second unit I bought for well under $200 and it ran/cut just fine. Keep in mind that these machines are generally designed to be rebuilt over and over again while performing as they did new. "Homeowner" reels are available new from about $1,100+

Now, a reel mower setup to ride like a recumbent bike would be the talk of the subdivision for sure!


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I bought my Greensmaster 1000 for $400 in perfectly good working order, no maintenance needed. It can be done; it just takes a while to find the right deal. The Weeks auction is coming up but I have found that most of the stuff you buy there will need a little TLC before you can use it... maybe not. It could just be that I am not a good judge of the condition of equipment with just internet photos. You can most certainly find a good greens mower for <$1000. @MeanDean just sold a couple of decent looking greens mowers and he is only a couple hours away from you.


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## Keepin It Reel (Feb 20, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> I bought my Greensmaster 1000 for $400 in perfectly good working order, no maintenance needed. It can be done; it just takes a while to find the right deal. The Weeks auction is coming up but I have found that most of the stuff you buy there will need a little TLC before you can use it... maybe not. It could just be that I am not a good judge of the condition of equipment with just internet photos. You can most certainly find a good greens mower for <$1000. @MeanDean just sold a couple of decent looking greens mowers and he is only a couple hours away from you.


Yeah, sometimes it just takes patience. I can vouch that most mowers purchased from auctions will need at least a service and sharpen all the way to part replacements (carbs, reel, bedknife,...), belts, etc...not to mention a good washing. When it's all said and done your all in budget can still be $1k or less depending on the work required.


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## CLT49er (Jun 19, 2020)

@LoCutt and other sprigging experts:
Can you get your own spriggs from dethacting from a healthy lawn? Simple as that or does it require something else?


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Lots of members get their sprigs from that. As long as the dethatched sprigs have a couple of nodes, they will root with proper care.


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## LoCutt (Jul 29, 2019)

CLT49er said:


> @LoCutt and other sprigging experts:
> Can you get your own spriggs from dethacting from a healthy lawn? Simple as that or does it require something else?


I've done this numerous times. The best thing about this is the less time the grass spends between harvest and replanting, the higher the survival rate. When I sprigged my current lawn, it never turned completely brown, and the lawn was covered in 6 weeks.


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## CLT49er (Jun 19, 2020)

This has me rethinking my neighbors 2k ft reno this summer. Might just dethatch my yard for sprigs and throw them on his yard yard. Kill two birds. @MrMonaco this could be an option for you as well if you have a neighbor or friend with a good hybrid.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

I have used this technique harvesting neighbors "rabbit turds" from his core aeration. Did that in phoenix.


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## MrMonaco (Jan 31, 2021)

Update: Soil Test came back at a PH of 5.8. No lime recommended. UGA does recommend 15 lbs of nitrogen per 1000sq ft for establishment. Do I really have to till down 6 inches and get all the roots out of the soil? Not excited about that task, but what must be done must be done. Also thinking about Royal TXD from Hancock. Any other seed recommendations &#129300; as always, thank you.


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

MrMonaco said:


> Update: Soil Test came back at a PH of 5.8. No lime recommended. UGA does recommend 15 lbs of nitrogen per 1000sq ft for establishment. Do I really have to till down 6 inches and get all the roots out of the soil? Not excited about that task, but what must be done must be done. Also thinking about Royal TXD from Hancock. Any other seed recommendations 🤔 as always, thank you.


Not sure how big of a root system you're dealing with, but ideally roots remain in the soil -- which helps accelerate OM% increase as they break down. But if you're referring to entire stumps, be they ground down or not, they will cause you problems down the road and are probably best to be removed (while their breakdown helps with OM, it also causes settling of the ground as it breaks down). When we clear lots of trees we typically remove the stumps (leave a section of the tree trunk to use as leverage!)

I will add that your 5.8 pH will only continue to go naturally lower, especially if fertilizer gets applied going forward. Since you're starting fresh and potentially tilling, consider tilling in 50#/1000 of (dolomitic?) lime into the soil profile (assuming your Mg levels are low, as is expected). Buy the cheap stuff from Lowe's. It takes longer to break down but being worked into the soil profile will further accelerate its impact vs applying it on the soil surface after-the-fact. There's never a better time to affect the 3-4" of the soil profile as now! It's probably the best/only reason for tilling the soil.

Likewise, if you're going to be tilling.. consider mixing in some OM as well. I like a product by Mirimichi called CarbonizPN (a 50/50 mix of biochar & compost). Assuming your CEC readings are as low as most of ours are, the added biochar will help with nutrient retention by adding nodes where nutrients can attach to. Our clay soil down here is terrible at holding anything of value! And, since you're already 4" into the soil, consider adding an organic fertilizer (Biosolids?) at the 2x rate as a jump-start to encouraging soil fertility (it also adds in much-needed P deep into your soil). You can apply your surface fertilizer of choice on top.

15#N/1000 seems like a lot of nitrogen. Here's a video from Lawncology that was recently put out on this subject. Hope it's informative.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I think 15#N is way too much. Are you missing a decimal between the 1 and the 5. Heck, even 1.5#N/1000sf is super heavy. Maybe they meant 15# per acre?


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## Mtsdream (May 2, 2019)

MrMonaco said:


> Update: Soil Test came back at a PH of 5.8. No lime recommended. UGA does recommend 15 lbs of nitrogen per 1000sq ft for establishment. Do I really have to till down 6 inches and get all the roots out of the soil? Not excited about that task, but what must be done must be done. Also thinking about Royal TXD from Hancock. Any other seed recommendations 🤔 as always, thank you.


I vote for arden15 or tahoma31 from sprigs. I was really impressed with my Arden and how fast it came in


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## Benwag (May 28, 2020)

@Redtwin @MrMonaco I've had UGA soil tests done and I know they typically say lbs for a product. Example: 10 lbs of 10-10-10/100sqft which would be 1 lb of nitrogen because the product is only 10% nitrogen. Can be confusing when we are used to talking in lbs of nutrients. So double check the math especially if you use a different rate fertilizer than they recommend


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

@Benwag very good point. I bet it's 15lbs of product per 1000sf.


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## Buffalolawny (Nov 24, 2018)

Redtwin said:


> @Benwag very good point. I bet it's 15lbs of product per 1000sf.


You did it too ;-)

People missing decimal points and extra zeros. Probably due to phones and their predictive text


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## kmbell3837 (Mar 17, 2021)

I am glad I found this thread. I too live in Georiga and have zoysia in my front yard that is maintained pretty well. My backyard is nothing but weeds. I have ~7,000 sqft that I am contemplating completely redoing next growing season. Probably stick with Zoysia since I can just treat both sides the same. I am going to do a test patch this year (~1,000 sqft) to see if I am capable of seeding myself. I bought a bag of Oasis Bermuda, again just to test, it will be replaced next year when the whole yard is seeded with Zoysia. Might do 500 sqft of Bermuda and 500 sqft of Zoysia. Here is what my plan is:

1) Soil test (samples are already sent), Round-up This Weekend (Mid March)
2) Till area, roll area (two weeks later)
3) Pull weeds and fill in sink holes as I see them
4) Lay down a mixture of compost, Humichar, organic material (Lightly level it), spread seeds at a slightly higher rate than what bag says (Plant at 2-3 pounds of seed per 1,000 square feet). Roll and add another light coat of compost and organic matter on top.
5) Keep it moist for a few weeks

Any thoughts or concerns with my approach?


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## MrMonaco (Jan 31, 2021)

Update to project. I had the 9000 sq ft harley raked... Then used my lawn tractor to rake the soil and went ahead and put the seed down. I rolled the seed in lightly and am not using straw for cover. I went with Hancock's Royal TXD Bermuda. I had to cut it with Masonry sand and still have a good amount of the 25lbs left. My question is depending how it does after germination can I continue to reseed until the whole area is thick and lush? I think I still have about 20 lbs of seed left. &#129300;&#128556;&#129299;


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## MrMonaco (Jan 31, 2021)




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## MrMonaco (Jan 31, 2021)




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## MrMonaco (Jan 31, 2021)

Kmbell3837 ... I am not sure what the right recommendation is. By the time I could advise you confidently, it may be too late to seed.


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## MrMonaco (Jan 31, 2021)

Not so pretty just yet


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## MrMonaco (Jan 31, 2021)

Coming in but a lot of bare spots. Will top dress and seed those areas in a few weeks.


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## MrMonaco (Jan 31, 2021)

Just to provide an update, I have a fairly good lawn now. A few roots to remove and stumps, but I am happy with the 1st season. I will have it looking more like carpet by next year. Thanks for everyone's help...


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## MrMonaco (Jan 31, 2021)




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## MrMonaco (Jan 31, 2021)




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## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

Nice! Another successful seeding. It isn't so bad. 

But maybe a mod can help you with a name change to MrRoyaltxd...


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