# Need Guidance. First Spring With Yard



## lawnnewbie (Jul 18, 2017)

Last summer I moved from a townhome to a house and I finally got a yard that I've wanted for ages. A few users here helped me overcome some weeds in my lawn so I figured I'd return. This will be the first spring that I'll be taking care of a yard and I'm looking for some feedback, tips, and adjustments to what I'm planning.

A bit of history. My neighborhood is pretty decent, neighbors and kids out playing all the time and everyone takes pretty good care of their yards. Even the adjacent house to me seemed to have a green lawn all winter long (it didn't snow much) in my area of Northern Utah. However, from what I hear, the home I moved into used to have one of the worse yards n the block and they only cleaned it up enough to sell it.

From summer to fall, I was able to get rid of a good amount of weeds, mainly dandelions, aside from the prostrate spurge I fought since moving in and it overwhelmed my lawn in a few areas from late summer all through fall. So this is what I'd like to do, please let me know if you all have any advice and I'm really looking at timing and dates I should be doing this.

1: (Late April) Aerate the lawn.
2: (Early May) Lay down a strong dose of pre-emergent. (any suggestions on type? I have some Scott's right now)
3: (Mid-May) Overseed a few areas and start watering
4: (Late-May) Lay down Milorganite

A few extra things. The soil here is a very dense clay soil, it's hard to get the water to penetrate, but once it does, it holds moisture very well. The guy in the garden center at the hardware store said I should adjust the lawn PH and start altering the composition. He mentioned something about adding granularize lime and it should loosen the soil, at least, that was last summer, so I might be wrong. I was a bit overwhelmed with new information at that time as you could tell he loved lawn and wanted to teach. If that's correct, when should that be applied?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Welcome back to TLF
I would NOT add lime until you have determined that it is needed via a soil analysis. You are already doing a lot to loosen up there dirt, provided that the aeration you plan to do is core aeration.
There is a lot of debate re spring seeding, and I don't know enough about growing KBG in an existing lawn to advise. However, many people with KBG thicken their lawn by relying on the grass to spread via planned nitrogen applications. 
Prodiamine and dipiothyr are common pre emergents for cool season folks. You won't be able to seed after applying them - they can last three months, so check the label.
You might want to give the cool season sticky a look for an overview


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Said sticky is here 
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1595
But feel free to ask more questions. There are lots of knowledgeable and helpful people here.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Welcome to TLF.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

I had a longer post typed up and lost it, and don't have time to retype the entire thing, so I'll be short here.

I would seed right after you aerate. Plan ahead which areas you're going to seed, so you don't pre-M those areas. Move the seeding up to April, same day as aeration.

To prevent weeds on the seeded areas, use either Scotts Starter fertilizer with Mesotrione or Jonathan Green Starter fertilizer with Tupersan when you seed. Mesotrione and Tupersan are the only two chemicals that act as a pre-M on areas that you're seeding without hurting the seed.


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## lawnnewbie (Jul 18, 2017)

Thanks for the replies. I will definitely take a look over that sticky.

I was planning the same day as aeration, and it will be core. There are two hot spots on my lawn that get constant sun, and those are where the weeds happen to grow. Perhaps I will just lay the pre-m in those two spots. I have a few areas of paster grass I'll be tearing up and was planning on seeding those areas too, perhaps just sod.

If I seed right after aeration and the seed takes and starts growing, though young, could it handle a hit of pre-m or would it be too strong and kill the new grass? I'll still avoid the areas as much as possible, I'm talking more of overspray and such. I am planning on seeding some specific areas that are thin and hard to keep green in the summer.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

Well, I don't mean to be a Debby-downer, but I think you should revisit your plan.



> The soil here is a very dense clay soil


Have you tested it to validate this assumption? There are many reasons for a hydrophobic soil. It might be clay. Might not.

If your goal is to eliminate the spurge, then get a good pre-emergent down at the right time like Prodiamine or Dimension first, and water it in very, very slowly. Apply a good soil conditioner heavily at first and then back off to chemically aerate without kicking up weed seeds. Skip the core aeration for now if weed pressure is your main nemesis.

Fall is the best time to seed KBG. I'm assuming your area in Utah gets real summer temperatures in this statement. It will germinate mid - June, just in time to get killed by the heat and natural stress of summer. If you have irrigation, you may have a chance, but given your self-stated lack of experience and no mention of irrigation, save your money and time for the fall and spend your time studying up on how to be successful in that endeavor.

KBG spreads, and can fill in 2" gaps pretty easily if fed and watered well. Get a post hole digger, shovel, or sod plugger and move plugs from filled in areas to bare spots now, leaving no more than a few inches in between plugs. Fertilizer regularly this spring with milorganite at bag rate to get it to spread and fill in. Or use urea, if you can water it in. Make sure you irrigate it.

Meanwhile, spurge is easy to kill. Almost every labelled herbicide will kill it. Bayer Advanced, Scott's Weed-b-gone. Do a blanket spray at labelled rates a couple times a month apart on badly infested areas as soon as it greens up, then spot spray individual plants from there out.

But don't seed in May if you have a real summer. Either move plugs now for bare spots, or seed this fall if it's a big area. Feeding what you want and killing what you don't goes a long way with KBG even with thin coverage.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@lawnnewbie I really like the strategy outlined by HLG here. Spring seeding is possible and it can be successful, but it is very risky. Many of us have had bad outcomes with spring seeding (including myself). Fall seeding is a far safer bet.

To answer your question directly re pre-emergents: You should not use traditional, long-lasting pre-emergents like prodiamine and dipiothyr on new grass. The grass should be strong--I believe 2-3 mowings is recommended before applying dipiothyr. For baby grass and establishing grass, you should use one of the pre-emergents mentioned by Green. For Scott's with mesotrione, I believe there is a 30-day window recommended between uses--but definitely double check the label before you buy and apply.


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## lawnnewbie (Jul 18, 2017)

This is great information and I will definitely take it into account. I haven't tested the soil, I was just going off what my neighbors have told me about it, but then, that could be mere speculation on their part as well. I'll get a soil tester here shortly and take a look. It definitely looks like clay when digging into it.

I'll try the plugs instead of the seeds and hit seeds this fall. The areas I was going to seed were going to be spots where I will be removing paster grass sections. A plug or two might be just the thing as my grass, on one side, is very thick and I like the taller grass look in the summer as well.

My store down the road was pretty limited on lawn care products, they carry mowers and such, but only one small shelf of pre-e. I mentioned this stuff to the employee helping, and he recommended this. However, after looking at reviews, I'm guessing it's not going to be great. I'll take it back and get a different type from our Lowes or Home Depot downtown and I'll go through every product to find those chemicals mentioned.

https://www.scotts.com/en-us/products/weed-control/scotts-weed-control-lawns

@HoosierLawnGnome no worries. This is exactly why I am here. I don't pretend to know much about lawns...yet, but I'm excited to learn.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@lawnnewbie :

Your intuition is correct. That product is a post-M rather than pre-M. It won't prevent weed or crabgrass germination. It's meant to be used on existing weeds.


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## lawnnewbie (Jul 18, 2017)

I'll go ahead and take it back. Looks like I'll be on my own armed with what you guys are helping me with as it seems most of these employees in the garden center, unfortunately, aren't fully knowledgeable about their products. That's okay though, this is starting to get more into specifics.

I'll return this tomorrow and find take a trek to find the right stuff and start putting it down. I have a rock pad next to my driveway that's warming up during the day and I'm starting to see some weeds poke through. I'm sure if I don't start soon, the lawn is right behind it.


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## Overfloater (Jun 5, 2017)

Don't worry about clay soil. My soil is total garbage and my grass is fantastic. Proper watering, mulch mowing, and fertilizing will slowly turn bad soil around.

Core aeration will help though.


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