# Test Results



## jacheech (Aug 9, 2020)

Hey folks, just got my first ever soil test results and had some quick notes and questions:

1. I did a full front lawn renovation last fall and had excellent results. Have a mixture of creeping red fescue and perennial rye. 10k sq/ft.

2. Per the GDD map, tomorrow (3/27/21) will be a perfect temperature to apply PRE. I'm using Vigro crabgrass preventer plus fertilizer 29-0-3. Since the lab fertilizer recommendation calls for an annual rate of 14#/1k sq.ft. I will count this application towards my annual application rate and apply the rest in the fall. Does that sound right?

3. With respect to potash, what is the general consensus - SOP or MOP? Can I apply the spring application tomorrow? Is there a recommended brand I should look for? I read a thread where someone suggested applying the potash in equal amounts on a monthly basis, as opposed to two applications as recommended by the lab. Does it make a difference?

4. Can I apply the lime tomorrow as well? Any reason not to apply the full annual lime application now, or should I split it up over the course of the season?

5. With respect to seeding - There's one area on the far side of the lawn that is being renovated for a large bed and it's getting roughed up pretty bad by all the equipment. This area will be graded a bit and then seeded. How far away from this area should I stay with respect to the pre? Will likely be seeded in about 3 weeks.

Any other tips or observations?

Thanks very much, in advance for your help.


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## AndyS (Jun 13, 2020)

It looks like the soil test is calling for 4 pounds of N. At bag rate (I think that Vigoro is a 44lb bag) would give you 0.85 of a pound of N. You'd definitely count that towards your annual app of N, but I think it would leave you with 3.15 pounds N per 1K to apply, and I'm not sure you'd want to leave all of that until the fall.

It's not a 50lb bag, so at bag rate it would only contribute 3lbs of the 14lbs they suggest for a 28.0.3, and you'd want to stick with bag rate since it's also a preemergent, unless the bag suggests you can apply at a higher rate.

Personally, I find it easier to go by the recommendations of N, P, and K in terms of pounds per year vs. the specific blends they recommend. That removes any need to follow the bag rate, but you can't do that for the weed and feed product.


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## jacheech (Aug 9, 2020)

@AndyS , thanks for the response. Went very well yesterday. I had bought the Vigoro a few weeks back in anticipation of the pre application but was able to easily find pelleted lime and sulfate of potash at a local garden supply. I applied all three (150#s of lime and 50#s of potash) and we are getting a great soak today. Re the application - though I've had a spreader for decades, this is the first time I ever applied products with the care and precision suggested and I feel like it made a difference in coverage. I used some flags to break down the areas into 2k sq/ft sections and weighed out the products and applied evenly to each area. I did them one at a time as each had different textures. In the past I would dump an entire bag of product into the hopper and just book around the yard until it was gone. It took more time, but I didn't mind at all.

I will deduct the small amount of N in the Vigoro from my annual feeding requirement and based on @AndyS 's reply and apply the remaining N in three applications. Was thinking a month from now, then early fall and late fall.

Can someone suggest a good product that carries the 28-0-3 ratio?

Thanks, again.


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## Lawn Whisperer (Feb 15, 2021)

jacheech said:


> @AndyS , thanks for the response. Went very well yesterday. I had bought the Vigoro a few weeks back in anticipation of the pre application but was able to easily find pelleted lime and sulfate of potash at a local garden supply. I applied all three (150#s of lime and 50#s of potash) and we are getting a great soak today.


How much of your lawn are you treating? 1 acre or 10k? 50# of potash or 50# of SOP?
The goal is to apply 4#P/k annually, and recommend that no more than 1#P/month.
If your using MOP (0-0-60), I would caution how much to use at once since it contains chlorine.



jacheech said:


> Can someone suggest a good product that carries the 28-0-3 ratio?


It doesn't have to be an exact ratio, as long as it's mostly N. If your satisfied with Vigoro, I believe they have a 29-0-4 with 50% slow release nitrogen. You can also use urea which is 46-0-0, you just need to adjust the amount of product to apply.


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## jacheech (Aug 9, 2020)

Hi, @Lawn Whisperer , I am treating 10k sq/ft (front yard only) I used sulfate of potash. Will look at the Vigoro product. Think I saw one but it had weed killer in it as well.


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## Lawn Whisperer (Feb 15, 2021)

jacheech said:


> ... was able to easily find pelleted lime and sulfate of potash at a local garden supply. I applied all three (150#s of lime and 50#s of potash) and we are getting a great soak today.





jacheech said:


> I am treating 10k sq/ft (front yard only) I used sulfate of potash.


In the future it's best if you limit the AI (actual ingredient) to 1#/1k on any of the NPK. You applied 2.5#K/1k, the salts in the product can cause problems with your lawn. Plus splitting the apps to 1#/1k per month would allow the product to move down into the soil evenly. Then any further apps of the same nutrient should be applied a month or later. 
SOP has less than half of salts compared to MOP, so hopefully it won't have any negative effects on your lawn. Rain and watering your lawn regularly should wash off the salts and your soluble salts as per the soil test were low to begin with. 
I would wait until early fall to apply 20#SOP/10k lawn (1#K/1k), which would give you 3.5#K/1k for the year from your SOP applications, plus any other K you get from using 29-0-3.

Edit: Also looking over your soil test, hopefully you used calcitic lime instead of dolomitic. Your magnesium levels are sufficient and it would be better to increase your Ca:Mg ratio.

Good luck on your lawn!


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## jacheech (Aug 9, 2020)

@Lawn Whisperer, thanks so much for spending time on my topic, really appreciate you pointing me in the right direction.

With respect to your last point, yes, I used Calcitic lime. Attached is an image.


As for the amounts of product to apply at once, I hear you loud and clear, though I must admit I'm still trying to understand how to apply the math correctly.

Looking at the above soil test results, my thinking was: the lab recommended 7 pounds per 1,000 square feet per year of potassium, across two applications. So, with a treatment area of 10k square feet, I bought 2 50# bags, knowing I would have a bag left over for the fall. I carefully applied 1 full bag evenly across the area, so by my math, I applied about 5 pounds per thousand square feet:

10,000 sq.ft area / 1000 = 10(k sq.ft).; 50 # bag / 10 (ksq.ft) = 5 pounds applied per thousand square feet. I think...

You mentioned that I applied 2.5# per thousand square foot, so just wanted to understand if I'm doing the math correctly.

Assuming my math theory is correct, I believe you are suggesting to - instead of applying the entire 50# in one application, apply just 10# at a time, once per month across 5 months to give the soil enough time to adsorb the product and avoid over application (waste / damage). Based on the annual requirement of 70#, I would then add two more months and do 10# per month over 7 months to achieve an application of 70# per thousand square foot per year.

Let me know if I have that right, and thanks again.

By way of note, here is the potassium product I used:


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## Lawn Whisperer (Feb 15, 2021)

jacheech said:


> ... 10,000 sq.ft area / 1000 = 10(k sq.ft).; 50 # bag / 10 (ksq.ft) = 5 pounds applied per thousand square feet. I think...
> 
> You mentioned that I applied 2.5# per thousand square foot...


2.5#K(potassium/K2[/sub]O)/1k sq. ft

10,000 sq.ft area / 1000 = 10(k sq.ft).; 50 # bag / 10 (ksq.ft) = 5 pounds applied per thousand square feet (actual product of SOP)
5 lbs. of SOP x 50% actual ingredient (AI) of (potassium/K[sub]2[/sub]O) = 2.5# of actual ingredient of K (potassium/K[sub]2[/sub]O) per 1(k sq. ft).

In your case with 0-0-52:
50#bag/10k (sq. ft) = 5# of SOP/1k(sq. ft)
5#SOP x 52% (0-0-52) = 2.6# of K[sub]2[/sub]O / 1 k (sq. ft)



Lawn Whisperer said:


> The goal is to apply 4#P/k annually, and recommend that no more than 1#P/month.
> If your using MOP (0-0-60), I would caution how much to use at once since it contains chlorine.


Sorry  , for the confusion I meant to say:
4#of K/1k annually and 1#of K/month.
It's best to apply no more than 1# of actual ingredient (NPK) every 4-6 weeks. Too much at once can cause stress (salts) on the grass, especially if your applying all three. Additionally, P and K will take time to work into the soil, more time for P. While you can apply more than 1# of K, I would disagree with the labs 2 apps of MOP. Especially, with the chlorine in MOP.


jacheech said:


> I believe you are suggesting to - instead of applying the entire 50# in one application, apply just 10# at a time, once per month across 5 months to give the soil enough time to adsorb the product and avoid over application (waste / damage).


I would have applied 20# of SOP across 4 months (3 in spring, 1 in fall)
20#SOP/10k (sq. ft) = 2#SOP/1k (sq. ft)
2#SOP x 50% = 1#K[sub]2O/1(sq. ft)
1# of K x 4 apps = 4 of K for the year



jacheech said:


> Based on the annual requirement of 70#, I would then add two more months and do 10# per month over 7 months to achieve an application of 70# per thousand square foot per year.


Add one more app of 20# of SOP in early fall. Then that's it, you are now on maintenance mode. All you will need is nitrogen the following year, *no more lime no more SOP* (theoretically). Note that your grass will use about half of K for every nitrogen it uses. As long as you are mulching those nutrients will go back into the soil, if you have to bag your clips you'll need to replace those nutrients. And you will loose other nutrients due to erosion/leaching. But for the most part K will stay in your soil, unlike nitrogen.

Oh by the way, SOP also contains sulfur, which would increase your sulfur levels. :thumbup:

Although, I would recommend getting another soil test next year to find out if the lime and SOP worked and find out the levels of other nutrients. That remainder of SOP might come in handy.

Cool Season Guide and Soil Remediation Guide are good reads.

Good luck on your lawn.

Disclaimer: I make mistakes and might have done the math incorrectly or typed something incorrectly, like P instead of K. :mrgreen:


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## jacheech (Aug 9, 2020)

I see it now, thanks for the clarification! Really appreciate you breaking it down for me.

I will definitely lay off the SOP until fall and then apply that last 20#. I'll also revert back in a few weeks to run my nitrogen app plan by all of you before spreading.

Have a great week!


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## jacheech (Aug 9, 2020)

Hey gang, fresh question,

It's been about a month since application of PRE, Lime, and Potash. I'm seeing some weeds break through and wanted to start thinking about my next application, which I think should be a weed and feed (planning on using Vigoro All Season Weed and Feed29-0-3). Don't want to harm or over do things, so when would be a good time to apply?

As a side-note I have an unopened bottle of Tenacity that I picked up last fall when I renovated the lawn, I never applied it.

Thanks for your thoughts.


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## johnklein25 (Apr 22, 2021)

It looks like you already did your pre-emergent? If so, maybe just spot treat for the weeds you've got? Tenacity works OK but it's slow acting. Check the label for weeds that Tenacity works on vs the weeds you have in your lawn, and if you have a match, you should try using it. IMO, Spot spray is better than doing the whole lawn if you only have weeds in certain places.

If Tenacity doesn't work for the weeds you have maybe look at SpeedZone - I tried it for the first time and it really worked well on my wild violet and creeping charlie and did no harm to my TTF

BTW - your yard looks pretty awesome in those photos. You're doing something right!


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## jacheech (Aug 9, 2020)

@johnklein25, thanks for the compliment. Definitely the best my grass has ever looked. Appreciate the recommendation for SpeedZone, any experience with drift? I have tons of shrubs and perennials.

I had it in mind to do a nitrogen application at the same time as the weed killer because I didn't add any nitrogen in the fall when we reno'd and there was only a minor application when I did the pre back in March - that's what prompted me to consider a weed and feed.

I don't so much as have scattered trouble areas with weeds, they are more or less disbursed around the lawn.


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## occamsrzr (Apr 27, 2020)

jacheech said:


> Hey gang, fresh question,
> 
> It's been about a month since application of PRE, Lime, and Potash. I'm seeing some weeds break through and wanted to start thinking about my next application, which I think should be a weed and feed (planning on using Vigoro All Season Weed and Feed29-0-3). Don't want to harm or over do things, so when would be a good time to apply?
> 
> ...


It's looking great!

I think most here would recommend not using a Weed and Feed (unless you already bought it). A good next step would be to put down a generic 3 way herbicide. This will knock out the majority of weeds. Revisit your weed stand after a week or two of this application. If there are any types that seemed unaffected, let's get those identified. There are more specialized herbicides we can use to get rid of the trickier weeds.

Please don't put down Tenacity for post-emergence unless you absolutely know the weeds you're targeting.


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## occamsrzr (Apr 27, 2020)

jacheech said:


> @johnklein25, thanks for the compliment. Definitely the best my grass has ever looked. Appreciate the recommendation for SpeedZone, any experience with drift? I have tons of shrubs and perennials.


SpeedZone isn't half bad. Please read the label. I would be most concerned about using Dicamba around these perennials and any trees. I think that would knock out a good bit of what you have and even some of the trickier weeds.

https://www.domyown.com/msds/SpeedZone-Lawn-Label.pdf

Drift is just something you have to deal with with any app. Plan your apps when the wind isn't blowing. Before the sun sets seems to be my sweet spot. Make sure you have a correct nozzle that doesn't mist too much.


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## jacheech (Aug 9, 2020)

Thanks fellas. BTW did an inventory and found a container of Crossbow I had picked up but never applied out of fear of torching the new lawn and perennials. Any thoughts on this one vs, Speedzone? It has 2-4-D and triclopyr.


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## occamsrzr (Apr 27, 2020)

jacheech said:


> Thanks fellas. BTW did an inventory and found a container of Crossbow I had picked up but never applied out of fear of torching the new lawn and perennials. Any thoughts on this one vs, Speedzone? It has 2-4-D and triclopyr.


If this is what you have, use it. That's a good combo. You'll be able to knock out a fair share of weeds. The triclopyr has the same issue as dicamba in that drift can put a hurting on perennials (24d has the same potential but to a lesser degree). You will be fine if you plan and spray correctly. If I were you, I would try and make a trim pass where you're spot spraying, or at least zone spraying, near the perennials. Take your time here. Make sure there is no mist and wind is minimal. Marking dye might help you here.

Once you get all of the areas near the perennials, you can switch to more of a blanket spray app. Might not be a bad idea to make a new post in Cool Season lawns for some tips/pointers on spraying herbicides. Hopefully this is helpful information.


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