# Not Sure Where to Begin



## Polyalphaolefin (May 11, 2020)

First off, thanks for letting me join the community.

My wife and I just bought a house in western South Carolina. The total property is 0.85 acres. The yard is a bit of a mess as you can see in the pictures, and I'm not sure where to begin on cleaning it up. This is our first home with a decent sized yard worth keeping up with so I'm very "green" when it comes to lawn care. I need help in identifying what type of grass I have growing here aside from the clover, sand spurs, and dandelions. I would like a dense, dark green lawn that can withstand heavy foot traffic (we have 2 kids). I work from home and kinda make my own schedule so maintenance isn't an issue. The property has an irrigation system in the front yard but not in the back.

Here's some pictures of what I'm dealing with. I have cut the yard short since taking the pictures. Can anyone help me identify the type of grass I have growing here, where I should begin to care for it, and some recommendations on getting rid of the weeds? I know I have a lot of work ahead. There's a country club across the road from us (this house actually used to be the front office for it years ago) that is full of nice bermuda grass. Can bermuda grass be overseeded over centipede or zoysia (or whatever I have here) in the hopes of it eventually overtaking it? I'd like to get some fertilizer down throughout the summer to green up the yard but no idea what fertilizer to get for whatever grass I may have or want to have.

Talk to me like I'm 5. Where do I begin here? Thanks.





















Testing the sprinkler system yesterday.


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## Awar (Feb 25, 2019)

I'm not an expert when it comes to renovating neglected lawns. My first ever lawn care experience was with my newly sodded bermuda lawn 4 years ago. But I can tell you that my in laws' front yard (only 2000 sq-ft) looked very similar to yours last year before I decided to help them recover it this past winter. They had some bermuda but all kinds of other weeds were taking over. I was able to start during the winter with pre-emergent and then this spring moved on to kill broadleaf weeds, fertilized, then started treating the grassy weeds, and fertilized again. Now it's more than 50% bermuda and I'm sure it'll be better over the summer as the poa anua dies off, and I take care of the fescue & dallisgrass they have.

I can see bermuda grass in your 2nd & 3rd picture so that's a good thing if you're trying to renovate what you have as opposed to complete kill and sod or seed. Walk around your yard and see if you have bermuda in most areas. I see that you have decent sun in the open areas but if you have shaded areas bermuda will struggle. I also see you have irrigation so that's a good start. If there's some bermuda in the different areas I suggest trying to bring that back this spring/summer. I would apply pre-emergent even if it's kind of late, and apply broadleaf weed killers and fertilize really well. Of course you can do soil tests and determine the exact needs of your lawn but those first couple of steps are better done early in my opinion. You have an opportunity to kill the main weeds quickly and push you bermuda, then you can focus on the difficult weeds and areas that may require special attention.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

I would go after weeds first and call a pest control company and have them take a look and make a recommendation/quote. It shouldn't be super expensive, and based on a quick look at your pictures, I would be expecting a blanket spray for broadleaf rather than trying to spot spray at this point; only way to find out is to ask. The herbicide will be more effective if the weeds aren't experiencing drought/temperature stress at the time you spray.

I've read that bagging, instead of mulching, is the way to go when you have a bunch of weeds to try and minimize avoidable weed growth.


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## rjw0283 (May 11, 2020)

Bermuda is good for high traffic and NEEDS lots of sun, however its pretty high maintenance, need to keep it short and frequent mowing is required to not cut too much off of it to scalp it. During summer months I mow mine every 4-6 days. When it's well kept it looks awesome, but it requires a lot of upkeep. Pre-emergent is bermudas best friend (But if you're gonna plant seed or sod than you need to wait). I'm not an expert, but I would target weeds. I'd buy some cheap big box store weed killer like spectracide (I bought the concentrate and mix it in a hose end sprayer for the neighbors, and it took a big chunk of their weeds out and it's super cheap) May take 2 applications 2-3 weeks apart. After those weeds are gone you can start targeting the other weeds, There are APPS out there you can put on your phone, I use Plant ID. Take a picture of the weed and it will get you in the ball park of what the weed is, when you know what the weed is, you can research what kills it.

Just my 2 cents, and how I killed all the crap growing in my yard about 3 years ago.


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## Polyalphaolefin (May 11, 2020)

Thanks for the advice.

After walking around this evening, it seems the bermuda is only in ~15-20% of the lawn. If I decided not to overseed, just use a good high nitrogen fertilizer with ~1"/wk water, how well will the bermuda spread on its own? Any mowing techniques to promote that spread?

Yesterday, a friend of mine suggested just doing a broadleaf killer, cater the fertilizer and irrigation in favor of the bermuda for now, and do pre-emergent at the beginning of the next growing season. He also said to take his advice with a grain of salt since he lives in NJ and only deals with cool season grass.


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## FlaDave (Jul 10, 2018)

Overseeding is a cool season grass thing. Was that last pic taken at the same time as the rest?

The last pic looks scalped and the rest of the lawn looks like overgrown weeds mixed with bermuda and I think st. Aug in pic 4.

If you scalped it you may have more bermuda than you think. Scalped bermuda looks like a bunch of brown stems.

In my opinion your friends advice is good if you were looking to keep the bermuda. It spreads like wildfire if you throw nitrogen at it.


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## Polyalphaolefin (May 11, 2020)

The first pics were taken a week ago before I cut it. The last pic was taken a few days after I cut it. I indeed did scalp it on the lowest mowing height.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Spray for the weeds. Just do a broadcast, might take two applications and likely two different herbicides, depending on what you have or what you want to spend $$ on.

Wait a few weeks, and then scalp it all down to the dirt and remove it all. Throw on some fertilizer and mow, mow, mow. Mowing often and mowing low will make it spread like a grass fire.


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## Polyalphaolefin (May 11, 2020)

FATC1TY said:


> Spray for the weeds. Just do a broadcast, might take two applications and likely two different herbicides, depending on what you have or what you want to spend $$ on.
> 
> Wait a few weeks, and then scalp it all down to the dirt and remove it all. Throw on some fertilizer and mow, mow, mow. Mowing often and mowing low will make it spread like a grass fire.


When mowing, should I be mulching, side discharge, or bagging?


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

One of the best all-around weedkillers I've found is "Celsius". You can order from DoMyOwn, Amazon, etc. It's rather expensive compared to going to Lowe's, but it will kill almost every weed I see in your pics, if not all of them. And a little goes a long way. 2-3 ounces would treat your whole yard, so one bottle would take care of you for a while.

Bermuda - cut low, cut often, give it nitrogen, it will spread.

Another consideration - Don't be surprised if after you cut you find fire-ant hills. Again, off of DoMyOwn, order a product called "Cyper-TC". get the 1-gallon, liquid. If you spray about a pint per acre, you'll get really good insect control for 3-4 months. it'll kill all existing hills, and new ones will try to form, then die. You'll also find you get far fewer gnats and mosquitos if you keep the yard treated. It's kid and pet safe. Has a weird smell for a few hours after you spray it, but it's basically a altered chemical in the chrysanthemum plant (permethryn) that is a natural insecticide and is used in flea and tick shampoo.

Edit -- in the fall, put down prodiamine (barracade). October timeframe. That'll keep most of the winter weeds from germinating. Then, in February, do it again, and the spring weed seeds will not germinate in force. That'll give you a huge head start on next year's lawn appearance.

Side question -- Your username is rather distinctive. You on LS1tech?


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## Polyalphaolefin (May 11, 2020)

Darth_V8r said:


> One of the best all-around weedkillers I've found is "Celsius". You can order from DoMyOwn, Amazon, etc. It's rather expensive compared to going to Lowe's, but it will kill almost every weed I see in your pics, if not all of them. And a little goes a long way. 2-3 ounces would treat your whole yard, so one bottle would take care of you for a while.
> 
> Bermuda - cut low, cut often, give it nitrogen, it will spread.
> 
> ...


Yep, that's me. I know what oil to put in the lawnmower, but don't know how to use it. lol

Thanks for the advice and recommendations.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Polyalphaolefin said:


> Darth_V8r said:
> 
> 
> > One of the best all-around weedkillers I've found is "Celsius". You can order from DoMyOwn, Amazon, etc. It's rather expensive compared to going to Lowe's, but it will kill almost every weed I see in your pics, if not all of them. And a little goes a long way. 2-3 ounces would treat your whole yard, so one bottle would take care of you for a while.
> ...


LOL!!!! Good luck with the renovation. Good site here. Not any troublemakers that I have seen.


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## rhanna (Jun 7, 2017)

If it were me, I would go buy a weed killer from Lowe's/HD hose-end sprayer setup. That will take care of a lot of your weeds and you would probably be left with grassy weeds after that. I wouldn't wait on the pre-emergent. You can find granular pre-emergent (prodiamine) if you google it. I don't think HD or Lowe's usually stocks it. Since your bermuda has already come out of dormancy find a pre-emergent with some nitrogen in it. A place like Ewing Irrigation would probably have it and I think there is one not extremely far from you. Read the instructions and it will let you know how much to drop for so many months control. If you time it right you could then get on the normal fall/spring regimen.

I would guess you have enough bermuda in the sunny areas to get full coverage in no time but it will have a hard time in some of your shady areas.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Polyalphaolefin said:


> FATC1TY said:
> 
> 
> > Spray for the weeds. Just do a broadcast, might take two applications and likely two different herbicides, depending on what you have or what you want to spend $$ on.
> ...


When you scalp after spraying and waiting a little, Id bag it all up. As much as you can, it'll help clean it up and if you want to contain all the weed seeds as well.

After that- ideally you'd be cutting bermuda, or any desirable turf. I'd just mulch and be done with it. Idea is, you'd be cutting often and won't even cutting a ton off each time as well.

If your wife isn't asking why you are cutting again- you aren't cutting enough.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

FATC1TY said:


> If your wife isn't asking why you are cutting again- you aren't cutting enough.


An excellent heuristic!


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## Polyalphaolefin (May 11, 2020)

I got a few more pictures of the yard this morning.

This is the NW part of the lawn where the sun only hits it between 11-4 pm. Aside from occasional peeking through the trees, it remains pretty shaded otherwise. This grass is growing pretty well over here. Is this palmetto?





This is what populates the majority of the front yard.





This is growing on the backside of my shop. This part of the property only gets 1-2 hours of direct sunlight in the early morning.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Pic 2 does look like palmetto.

Pics 3,4 look like bermuda

Pic 5 looks like southern crabgrass


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## Polyalphaolefin (May 11, 2020)

Darth_V8r said:


> Pic 2 does look like palmetto.
> 
> Pics 3,4 look like bermuda
> 
> Pic 5 looks like southern crabgrass


Does the Palmetto like nitrogen like Bermuda does?


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

I'm under the impression that you can push Palmetto every 5 weeks with Nitrogen if the temps are good, but make sure you water adequately while avoiding continual moisture (resulting in fungus). I would do a preventive dose of fungicide if you do pursue heavy growth.


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

Looks like the issue with the saint augustine grass was lack of sufficient irrigation. Even the bermuda looks like it died back at some point, but then made a comeback - because that's what it does.


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## Polyalphaolefin (May 11, 2020)

TSGarp007 said:


> Looks like the issue with the saint augustine grass was lack of sufficient irrigation. Even the bermuda looks like it died back at some point, but then made a comeback - because that's what it does.


An older gentleman owned this house for several years, but I don't think he did much with the lawn. I base this on the google street view from a few years ago. lol

He went into a nursing home a couple of years ago and passed away last year. That's when the house went on the market. So it's been sitting for at least 2 years with noone living here to take care of it. If the palmetto will grow decently in the shaded areas, and can handle the somewhat heavy foot traffic that area will probably see, I may just let it grow and do its thing. I kinda like the look of it. I'll fertilize all of the lawn with some high nitrogen fertilizer and let the bermuda and palmetto battle it out for dominance.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

That approach will work. bermuda likes about 4x the nitrogen that Palmetto does. Palmetto will grow very well in your shaded areas. it can be a finicky cultivar though. I find it to be susceptible to disease. As to the competing, they will reach a kind of stalemate where it transitions from shade to sun. The palmetto will run over top of the bermuda, and the bermuda will undercut the palmetto and pop up behind it.

I do find palmetto to be reasonably traffic tolerant. i have two dogs and most of the yard takes their abuse. Once an area succumbs to it though, it seems as if a dirty look causes it to recede.

There is a very shade tolerant zoysia called pallisades. It might be worth investigating. If you are just looking to have a nice area and aren't too concerned with it other than that, stick to your plan of seeing what will take over the yard. Just understand that pushing nitrogen will heavily favor the bermuda.


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## Polyalphaolefin (May 11, 2020)

Darth_V8r said:


> That approach will work. bermuda likes about 4x the nitrogen that Palmetto does. Palmetto will grow very well in your shaded areas. it can be a finicky cultivar though. I find it to be susceptible to disease. As to the competing, they will reach a kind of stalemate where it transitions from shade to sun. The palmetto will run over top of the bermuda, and the bermuda will undercut the palmetto and pop up behind it.
> 
> I do find palmetto to be reasonably traffic tolerant. i have two dogs and most of the yard takes their abuse. Once an area succumbs to it though, it seems as if a dirty look causes it to recede.
> 
> There is a very shade tolerant zoysia called pallisades. It might be worth investigating. If you are just looking to have a nice area and aren't too concerned with it other than that, stick to your plan of seeing what will take over the yard. Just understand that pushing nitrogen will heavily favor the bermuda.


I'll look into palisades.

I've been researching a bit on fertilizers this afternoon. My local Feed & Seed has a few options including 10-10-10, 13-13-13, 18-0-18, and 32-0-10. What role does the K play in bermuda and palmetto growth?

With synthetic fertilizer, what's the margin for error on spreading it? Say for example, if you slightly miscalculate your spread rate or size of the yard and end up putting down 10-20% more than you should have. Will that cause it to chemically burn or do you have to really overdo it for it burn it?


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## rhanna (Jun 7, 2017)

From googling,
K, Potassium - This usually comes in the form of of potash (K2O). Potassium is great for building an all-around stronger plant by making stronger plant cells. This helps your lawn to better withstand the stress of heat, cold, disease, or pests.

I think many on here get soil testing done to see if you need potassium and/or Phosphorus.

I know bermuda likes nitrogen. I use GreenTRX on my lawn and I really like it. It's 16-1-2 and I put to whole 50 pound bag down for 8k sq ft lawn. That gets me 1 lb of N per 1,000 sq ft. I don't really worry about burn since it's bio based and slow release.

I think a synthetic fertilizer wouldn't do much damage (10-20% more) to bermuda unless you didn't water it or no rain for a while.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Polyalphaolefin said:


> Darth_V8r said:
> 
> 
> > That approach will work. bermuda likes about 4x the nitrogen that Palmetto does. Palmetto will grow very well in your shaded areas. it can be a finicky cultivar though. I find it to be susceptible to disease. As to the competing, they will reach a kind of stalemate where it transitions from shade to sun. The palmetto will run over top of the bermuda, and the bermuda will undercut the palmetto and pop up behind it.
> ...


A simplified way to remember what each of the macro nutrients in a fertilizer is for is up, down, all around. The first number is N for Nitrogen. This will help your grass with top growth. Up. Second number is P for phosphorus. This helps with root growth and plant health. Down. Third number is K for potassium or potash. This is for the overall health of the plant. All around. Without a soil test a balanced fertilizer with all 3 numbers the same is a safe one to choose.


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## Polyalphaolefin (May 11, 2020)

TN Hawkeye said:


> A simplified way to remember what each of the macro nutrients in a fertilizer is for is up, down, all around. The first number is N for Nitrogen. This will help your grass with top growth. Up. Second number is P for phosphorus. This helps with root growth and plant health. Down. Third number is K for potassium or potash. This is for the overall health of the plant. All around. Without a soil test a balanced fertilizer with all 3 numbers the same is a safe one to choose.


That's a good way to remember it. Thanks.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Polyalphaolefin said:


> I'll look into palisades.
> 
> I've been researching a bit on fertilizers this afternoon. My local Feed & Seed has a few options including 10-10-10, 13-13-13, 18-0-18, and 32-0-10. What role does the K play in bermuda and palmetto growth?
> 
> With synthetic fertilizer, what's the margin for error on spreading it? Say for example, if you slightly miscalculate your spread rate or size of the yard and end up putting down 10-20% more than you should have. Will that cause it to chemically burn or do you have to really overdo it for it burn it?


A good way to avoid this is to spread at half rate, twice. Instead of at full rate, once. I go North-south at half rate, then east-west at half rate. Takes longer, but it's spread very evenly


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## Polyalphaolefin (May 11, 2020)

It's been a couple weeks and we got some much needed rain. The bermuda is spreading great in the front yard. I put down some Scott's Turf Builder last week after cutting it, and I just cut it again today. There's still a long way to go, but it's progress.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Looks better. Just keping it mowed low after that hit with turfbuilder will do alot.


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