# Talk me out of dethatching.



## ILCornFarmer (Dec 12, 2018)

I have a thatch issue that I would like to address sooner than later. I was hoping to dethatch tomorrow... I have not done my first mow yet. Grass has greened up nicely, and daytime temps are 60s to 70 - nights are 40s and 50s. I wouldn't be surprised if a few yards don't get mowed Sunday or next week.

Would it be too hard on my grass to go ahead and dethatch? Soil temps are in the 50s so I really need to get my pre down.... but want to dethatch first.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

How thick is your layer of thatch? A lawn needs some thatch to protect it. Unless it's currently unmanageable, I would either skip it for the spring, or only perform a light dethatching. I would save a thorough dethatching for the fall. Maybe just a raking with a metal spring rake (fan rake) could loosen up enough excess thatch to satisfy your needs. It's easy to gauge how much pressure to apply to be gentle or rough as needed (this is what I do). I'm pasting a recent post of mine in another thread, which applies to your situation, below.

Speaking from experience, I highly suggest not to aggressively rake or dethatch in the spring. (I found out the hard way. Don't disturb the soil! :shock: ) A light raking should be enough to gently pick up twigs and debris; to remove matted leaves; fluff up turf that might have been left too tall for the winter/snow mold issues. If you rake too aggressively or use a power dethatcher, you risk bringing weed seeds to the surface, and you just removed the one thing (thatch layer) that protects your soil from exposure to airborne weed seeds which drift in.

As @ryeguy states above the thatch layer protects the soil from temperature extremes (and helps keep moisture in the soil during heat/ drought periods).

Also, as ryeguy mentions, one reason that dethatching is beneficial, is at seeding time for better seed to soil contact (which you don't want in the spring with weed seeds). 
Seeding/overseeding is best done in the fall (late summer, actually).

Sometimes dethatching is needed for "reel low" turf. Very low HOCs (generally <0.75") will need dethatching/verticutting periodically, because of thatch buildup due to aggressive tillering/spreading on golf courses, sports fields, etc. (i.e. @Pete1313 , @wardconnor , to name just a couple on TLF). This is to allow oxygen, fertilizer, water, etc. to penetrate the surface in order to reach the roots. This is one of a few reasons golf courses use USGA sand based greens.


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## Kaba (Mar 29, 2019)

I am by far no expert on the matter, but I detached early in the growing season last year and regretted it. The lawn looked awful until late May. I really should have waited until like 5 mows into the season.

*IF* I dethatch again it will be during peak growing season in the fall so the lawn can heal itself faster. I put myself a risk of weed germination because of the lawns slow repair response (even with seeding).

This was in May a week or two after I detatched. For perspective all my neighbours who do not even fert their lawns were green at this point.


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## Miller_Low_Life (Apr 12, 2017)

Simple. It's hard work.


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

I would dethatch but I'd also use more than one pre emergent to cover my steps. Don't get heavy on the N if you can't control the growth.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

@Kaba 
I think you've already talked yourself out of it for the spring.


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## Kaba (Mar 29, 2019)

Definitely talked myself out of ever doing it, in spring (and possibly ever &#128514 and hopefully I talked ILCornFarmer out of it as well.

Most of the big players on YouTube (with the exception of the ginga) claim proper mowing, fert and watering practices along with core areation is enough to keep thatch healthy and not require any real direct form of dethatching.

From my research on the matter all the points Chris raised are important to consider.

Do you have photos that show the thatch buildup?


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## ILCornFarmer (Dec 12, 2018)

I may snap a few pictures tomorrow. Right or wrong I am still going to give it a go tomorrow. I will be using a agri-fab pull behind tine dethatcher so not as aggressive as a power rake. You may be right Kaba - I might regret it. I won't go too crazy, but I really do not want to wait until fall. Should have done it last fall but never did.


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## Kaba (Mar 29, 2019)

Awesome and good luck! Take lots of pics and make sure you document your successes! I will be interested to see how it goes!


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## LawnCreepsLtd (Sep 8, 2018)

Looks like I might be late to the party on this but I definitely echo @Chris LI 's thoughts on raking. Even in using a metal rake like he mentioned, in fact I did a video on it last week.....I think people mistake a thatch problem for dormant grass around this time. A lawn has to have been neglected for a long time for a problem thatch layer, or incorrectly(too heavily) fertilized for many years....A true thatch problem will feel like you are walking on a sponge. Anyhoo, feel free to check out my vid for a bit of info and a chuckle or two


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## ILCornFarmer (Dec 12, 2018)

LawnCreepsLtd said:


> Looks like I might be late to the party on this but I definitely echo @Chris LI 's thoughts on raking. Even in using a metal rake like he mentioned, in fact I did a video on it last week.....I think people mistake a thatch problem for dormant grass around this time. A lawn has to have been neglected for a long time for a problem thatch layer, or incorrectly(too heavily) fertilized for many years....A true thatch problem will feel like you are walking on a sponge. Anyhoo, feel free to check out my vid for a bit of info and a chuckle or two


Good video.

My lawn does feel spongy, it was neglected from 2003-2012 - the owner then didn't care about it at all. From 2012 to 2017 it was improved greatly but over fertilized with weed and feed type quick growth fertilizers. 2018 was the first year it was really cared for in a proper manner and I wanted to dethatch but never got it done. I can't say that I will be making the right choice but I don't want to wait any longer, using a thatch rake in. 3x3 area I get an incredible amount of thatch....


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## ryeguy (Sep 28, 2017)

How do you know you actually have a thatch problem? Everyone can run a dethatcher over their lawn and pull up a lot of thatch. That doesn't indicate anything by itself. Thatch is a normal part of healthy turf and should not be removed unless it exceeds 1" or so.


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

It's kinda like a thick spongy rootball. Take a side sample and let it dry out a little as it's easier to see.

https://extension.umn.edu/lawncare/how-control-thatch-your-lawn


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## LawnCreepsLtd (Sep 8, 2018)

With everything you just said that does in fact point to a thatch problem. Like @ryeguy said, a certain amount of thatch is normal and needed, but once it gets to thick and dense it prevents air water nutrients etc from getting to the root zone and can harbor disease and pests.....I would say go ahead and do it. Again, I echo @Kaba 's thoughts and say WAIT a bit longer. Let your grass truly break dormancy and begin growing vigorously. That being said, pull the trigger on it. You have used your best judgement, and never a bad idea to let the air sun rain etc in there. What the gentlemen said rings true so watch weed activity. I would suggest coinciding it with an application of organic.....good luck my IL brother, if your ever traveling thru Villa Park let me know we can sit out there and talk cool season Midwest Illinois lawns....


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## ILCornFarmer (Dec 12, 2018)

Well I got the detaching done today, the Agri-Fab dethatcher worked better than expected for $99 - I didn't weigh it down too much as I didn't want to pull up too much good green grass. I am pleased with the results. I could have pulled up much more thatch but I still want to core aerate this spring and I figure I can go at it a little more intensely this fall if I feel it is needed. I got a lot done today, after mowing, detaching, and spreading my Pre in the front yard I was able to seed some bare spots in my back yard (the fence is new and a I got rid of the excess dirt yesterday and had a couple of bare dirt areas, top with peat moss, and spread some insecticide. Expecting rain tomorrow.

Here are a few pics from today - the picture of the thatch in my truck has a little bit of lawn clippings mixed in with it... it looks pretty green but the dethatcher did good at getting mostly dead grass and thatch. (yes I know I need to clean the north side of my house....)I ended up hitting the yard a 3rd time with the dethatcher so I tore a bit more out than what you see in the pics of my yard.







Here are a couple pics from last season...





Looking forward to trying some new things this year!


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## Rucraz2 (Apr 8, 2018)

I think it is always up to the turf situation. And there are different levels of detaching as well. I think a true dethatch is using a power rake and going to town. Which I have never seen in lawn in that bad of shape myself to need that.. Then you have the actual hand dethatching rake. Then there is the dethatching rakes that you push or pull. Set with too much force or weight can get into the actual thatch layer. I run one of these on the front of my tractor to fluff up the lawn and cleanup up debris. I would love to do this with just a hand rake, but that would take me a week on my lawn. I just feel when dethatching gets brought up its always controversial.


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