# Too much love could kill it? PGR Overapplication



## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

I have gone from #1 on the street to embarrassment. Sunday my lawn looked amazing as can be see in photo 3. Sunday night I sprayed PAR3 on my back reno and decided while I had the sprayer out I would do my PGR app +FAS on the front... Then I went away for business Monday and came home last night to disaster... my wife told me the grass was not looking good while I was away..

So here is what I did... Where did I go wrong.

PGR at 0.5 oz per k mixed with 2.5 oz/k ferrous sulphate and 1 oz/k Ammonium sulphate + 0.5 oz per k southern AG chelated iron. I also added a good couple of squirts of baby shampoo. When I mixed it in my tow behind sprayed there was still about 0.5 gal of 2,4D water in there. I did not think this would be a bid deal since I was mixing 15 gal total.

I did not get a chance to mow right after I sprayed, which is recommended for the PGR.

I had my sprinklers set to run the next morning but they did not go because I forgot I had shut the manual valve due to lots of rain. I do this so when I am away it is easy for my wife to go and turn the sprinklers on if needed. So the FAS and PGR sat on the grass blades until Wednesday when I had my wife put the sprinklers back on.

I have noticed the yellowing is far worse where my tractor tires went when I sprayed. Also areas I did not spray ar completely fine. It looks like all the top half of the blades are in bad shape, but green further down as seen in the pic below (note pic is upside down and yellow is the top of the blades). I have dropped my HOC to 2" from 2.5 to see if I can cut off the bad part bu5 it goes too far down.. I am thinking of going to 1.75".. sine the grass looks like crap I might as well use this as an opportunity go lower...

So I screwed up... but what was the issue.. not running the sprinklers? Is there anything I should be doing now to bring this back? Water, mow and wait?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I mostly have questions to understand the problem.

You only did pgr to the front, right? How is the back looking?

How much irrigation/rain in inches?

1oz of ams/ksqft?

What was your carrier rate?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Sorry, but I saw the title and thought of this song :lol:

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivbO3s1udic[/media]


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> Sorry, but I saw the title and thought of this song :lol:
> 
> [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivbO3s1udic[/media]


Yes... that was partially the intent.... too much love could kill it... just as sure as none at all...


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## tneicna (May 6, 2019)

Stuofsci02 said:


> I have gone from #1 on the street to embarrassment. Sunday my lawn looked amazing as can be see in photo 3. Sunday night I sprayed PAR3 on my back reno and decided while I had the sprayer out I would do my PGR app +FAS on the front... Then I went away for business Monday and came home last night to disaster... my wife told me the grass was not looking good while I was away..
> 
> So here is what I did... Where did I go wrong.
> 
> ...


Did you apply this within a 48 hour window of high air temps (=>80F)?


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

g-man said:


> I mostly have questions to understand the problem.
> 
> You only did pgr to the front, right? How is the back looking?
> 
> ...


G-man,

Yes I only did pgr to the front and sides. Back is looking fine....

There was no irrigation until 3 days later, when I had my wife put the sprinklers on which put down 1/2 inch. Then there was rain all day Thursday. I had the sprinklers run this morning too.. Carrier was about 1.25 gal per thousand.. Yeah, Ams was about 1 oz per thousand..

Temps were in the low 70s all week. Yesterday was the first time we touched 80 all year..


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I picked a random station east of Toronto (Ajax). It showed no rain from the 14jun to 21jun(0.5in). You irrigated on the 20jun another 0.5in. At first it looks like draught stress, but if the back is looking good, then it can be that. I know the first time the grass gets pgr it looks funky hence why I recommend a low dose.

I'm not worried about the 1oz of ams causing problems. 1g/ksqft is a good carrier rate.

So what about fungus? Is it getting worst?


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

My initial thought was fungus as well. Has the look of leaf spot somewhat.

Why did you mix the chelated iron with the fas?


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

g-man said:


> I picked a random station east of Toronto (Ajax). It showed no rain from the 14jun to 21jun(0.5in). You irrigated on the 20jun another 0.5in. At first it looks like draught stress, but if the back is looking good, then it can be that. I know the first time the grass gets pgr it looks funky hence why I recommend a low dose.
> 
> I'm not worried about the 1oz of ams causing problems. 1g/ksqft is a good carrier rate.
> 
> So what about fungus? Is it getting worst?


I think I figured out my critical mistake that I just realized while double checking everything that I did.. I am so used to spraying and fertilizing my yard that I know the sizes of all the areas by heart and I just know how much I need to do. The area that I was spraying I assumed was 12,500 sqft (it is actually 12,280 sqft), but I round up cause I like even numbers and I can never get everything out of my tank.

I was trying to get this all done before it got dark on Sunday, and was thinking about all the other stuff I needed to get done before I left town for the week and was just going through the process I normally do. There was one big difference.
When I sprayed the back with Par-3 I also sprayed 3,300 sqft of side area that I normally include in the front 12,500 sqft. So when I was spraying the PGR I did not go over that area because I had just sprayed par-3 with AMS. So I actually only sprayed 9,100 sqft with PGR and FAS with a tank with enough for 12,500 sqft.. So all my rates were at 37% more than I had calculated.. So PGR was at 0.69 oz/1000.. AMS was at 1.37 oz/1000 and total iron at about 4.1 oz/1000.. Then it sat for 2.5 days with no water....

I still think these numbers should have been OK, but certainly not as conservative as I normally use. I guess the moral of the story is don't rush and think through what you are going to do.. I didn't even realize it until this morning when I was going over the areas and saying "I sprayed this and it looks like hell, I didn't spray this and it looks great.... WTF... Why didn't I spray this... I normally spray this with the front 12,500 sqft... Oh yeah, I did this with the PAR-3... Oh No I oversprayed everthing else...!!!"


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> My initial thought was fungus as well. Has the look of leaf spot somewhat.
> 
> Why did you mix the chelated iron with the fas?


Ha.. Good question that I knew someone would ask.. I had a 5lb bag of ferrous sulfate that was just under half full so about 32 oz.. I wanted to get a little more iron down so I threw in a splash of chelated iron (about 250 mL)..


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

I checked that weather station nearest my house and it shows 6 mm of rain on Thursday (so not a lot.. ~1/4")...


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Update.... As I am the type of guy that can't just leave well enough alone, I decided to see what I could do to speed up recovery and try to continue on my lawn journey with a slightly lower HOC...

So today I diamond striped my backyard to make me feel better.. This is my reno from last fall.

Then I cut the front at 2".. Then single pass dethatched all 9,000 sqft of the grass I messed up with my Greenworks electric dethatcher. That thing is awesome.. Then I used my lawn sweeper to pick up the thatch.. Then mowed again at 1.75"... Then swept again. Then I mowed two more time at 1.75" in two other different directions...

The improvement is noticeable and if this greens back it will be really nice at this lower HOC..

It was a full day of work in the sun, but hopefully the start to getting this turned around... For now there will be no more striping in the front until things are shipmshape again. Thanks to everyone for helping me out.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Nice stripes in the back yard. Hopefully it's not too much stress on the lawn by dethatching it when we've got some summer temps on the way.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Nice stripes in the back yard. Hopefully it's not too much stress on the lawn by dethatching it when we've got some summer temps on the way.


Yes the summer heat is a concern for sure, but the hottest day the forecast shows for the next 14 days is 23C with most around 21C.. continuing the cool trend..

I will water it hard if needed...


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Stuofsci02 said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice stripes in the back yard. Hopefully it's not too much stress on the lawn by dethatching it when we've got some summer temps on the way.
> ...


Yeah you'll probably be fine. Might want to re check that forecast though.

Toronto


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Are you pulling a Whitby forecast? This is much different then I am getting..


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

It's Toronto. Straight from environment Canada. Is that accuweather your using? There forecasts are straight up poo. Always too low with there temp forecast. Unless your on Toronto island it's going to get hot this week. The trend is not our friend for cool season grass. It had to come at some time though.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> It's Toronto. Straight from environment Canada. Is that accuweather your using? There forecasts are straight up poo. Always too low with there temp forecast. Unless your on Toronto island it's going to get hot this week. The trend is not our friend for cool season grass. It had to come at some time though.


This is the Weather Network.. It is for my house out in Newtonville which is only a couple of clicks from the lake.. Normally we are 2C lower than T.O.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Stuofsci02 said:


> Update.... As I am the type of guy that can't just leave well enough alone, I decided to see what I could do to speed up recovery and try to continue on my lawn journey with a slightly lower HOC...
> 
> So today I diamond striped my backyard to make me feel better.. This is my reno from last fall.
> 
> ...


I hope the dethatching helps shape up your turf. Seems to have really pull up a lot of that dead grass


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Scag,

Yeah, it really is amazing that little dethatcher... probably the best value for the money tool I have... that is just one pass.. I might do another pass in the other direction...


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

I think I must have massively overdosed the Tnex. What I have seems consistent with pgr overregulation.... yellowing and browning of the turf, damaged tips, some grass blueing wiphile other grass appears heat stressed.... I know I put down 37% more than I wanted, but I must have gone more than that and not realized.. I also did not mow when I applied which the label says can lead to some yellowing....

I am holding out hope that in a couple of weeks it will be back to normal...


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## Rig2 (Sep 3, 2018)

I way over applied my first PGR application. I went with .4 oz/1000. It destroyed my lawn a week later. Looked heat stressed, yellow, looked like tons of thatch and all around terrible. It took over a month to start growing more than like 1/8 inch week. Then the rebound happened. Within 3 days it grew over 3 inches and out grew the ugly grass. I can say that after the rebound and new growth the grass looked awesome.


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## GoPre (Oct 28, 2017)

Rig2 said:


> I way over applied my first PGR application. I went with .4 oz/1000. It destroyed my lawn a week later. Looked heat stressed, yellow, looked like tons of thatch and all around terrible. It took over a month to start growing more than like 1/8 inch week. Then the rebound happened. Within 3 days it grew over 3 inches and out grew the ugly grass. I can say that after the rebound and new growth the grass looked awesome.


Dang...I don't think that's a large dose at all?


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## scooter422 (Oct 9, 2017)

I run .75 per k and have never had that problem.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Rig2 said:


> I way over applied my first PGR application. I went with .4 oz/1000. It destroyed my lawn a week later. Looked heat stressed, yellow, looked like tons of thatch and all around terrible. It took over a month to start growing more than like 1/8 inch week. Then the rebound happened. Within 3 days it grew over 3 inches and out grew the ugly grass. I can say that after the rebound and new growth the grass looked awesome.


Wow... that dose seems low.. I put down 0.4 oz on mine and my neighbors lawn at the end of May without issue. I thought I went 0.5 oz per k this last time, but I was at 0.7oz... Still I thought it should be fine but I don't know the issue... I did not cut prior to or right after and that is recommended to prevent yellowing..

I appreciate you input. It gives me hope that it will get better. I does seem to improve a little each day. I don't think it has really grown at all in the last 2 days. I have been cutting every three to 4 days..


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Here is a closeup of the worst area from Sunday morning.. After reading papers on PGR uses on golf course greens this seems to be the signs of over application/regulation. Since I think this is cause I have changed the thread title so it is easier for others to find.

"Over-regulation of turf can resemble other types of stress and often is confused with disease. The turf has a blue-brown color and putting greens have a patchy appearance. On closer inspection, the leaves generally are free of lesions but have a worn appearance with brown, shredded leaf tips. Occasionally, leaves will have lesions from diseases like dollar spot or leaf spot."


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## Rig2 (Sep 3, 2018)

Yep. That picture looks exactly like my grass did on my over application. I was initially aiming for 3oz but got to talking with my neighbor while spraying and it threw off my pace and it got the .4oz. So Next time I applied at the rate of .3oz and the grass was slightly stressed. I have settled in at .25ozand that rate works the best with no stress signs but I have to apply more often. I have some weak grass (Scott's tttf mix, didn't know of this site at reno time).


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Rig2 said:


> Yep. That picture looks exactly like my grass did on my over application. I was initially aiming for 3oz but got to talking with my neighbor while spraying and it threw off my pace and it got the 4oz. So Next time I applied at the rate of 3oz and the grass was slightly stressed. I have settled in at 2.5 and that rate works the best with no stress signs but I have to apply more often. I have some weak grass (Scott's tttf mix, didn't know of this site at reno time).


Wait.. did you do 4oz or 0.4oz ?


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Stuofsci02 said:


> Here is a closeup of the worst area from Sunday morning.. After reading papers on PGR uses on golf course greens this seems to be the signs of over application/regulation. Since I think this is cause I have changed the thread title so it is easier for others to find.
> 
> "Over-regulation of turf can resemble other types of stress and often is confused with disease. The turf has a blue-brown color and putting greens have a patchy appearance. On closer inspection, the leaves generally are free of lesions but have a worn appearance with brown, shredded leaf tips. Occasionally, leaves will have lesions from diseases like dollar spot or leaf spot."


Hang in there. Mine looked similar to this. Once the tnex wore off and the grass rebounded, it came back great. I also applied, what I thought was a lower dose. I applied 0.5 with FEature and it made my grass look horrid. Took 3 weeks to grow out of it completely. Certain spots came back quicker. Gave my turf the patchy look, lush green spots and rest brownish/yello. My next app will be .25oz per 1M


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Rig2/Scag,

Thanks for posting your experiences. Makes me feel a lot better about it coming back. Everyday I come home I am afraid to turn onto my street (hoping for the best, but expecting the worst).. Sounds like I need to be patient. It has now been 10 days since I put it down and probably 8 days since the PGR started working. Assuming 310 GDD (Celcius 0C base) I have gone through about 144 GDD so far so I have at least 160 GDD left. It is getting hotter this week so I should be able to accumulate that GDD in another 8-10 days. So maybe another week or so..


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## Kmartel (Feb 12, 2019)

This thread is a disaster. Over application, yes that happens, everyone makes mistakes. But everything you did immediately following the realization of your mistake is crazy. You stressed the turf, that's the time to baby it. Instead you dropped mowing height and hit it with the dethatcher! Wtf!! Fortunately moisture and air temperatures were in your favor. Your looking to increase green tissue (more leaf surface area) to help recover and grow out. Monitor closely for disease as you can't afford any further set backs. Maybe some organic fert is in order. Baby it, help it recover by giving it everything it needs.

Good luck!


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Kmartel said:


> This thread is a disaster. Over application, yes that happens, everyone makes mistakes. But everything you did immediately following the realization of your mistake is crazy. You stressed the turf, that's the time to baby it. Instead you dropped mowing height and hit it with the dethatcher! Wtf!! Fortunately moisture and air temperatures were in your favor. Your looking to increase green tissue (more leaf surface area) to help recover and grow out. Monitor closely for disease as you can't afford any further set backs. Maybe some organic fert is in order. Baby it, help it recover by giving it everything it needs.
> 
> Good luck!


Ha... Yep.. And I mowed it again tonight too... Put down 0.25lb N/k of 16-16-16 last night.. Grass recovers, I am not too worried.. If it wants to live in my yard it is going to need to be strong . I don't baby...

Joking aside, it is looking a lot better. I predict it will be back to normal in a week or so based on the daily improvements..


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Things are starting to come back pretty good. Now at 2" HOC... most of the yellow is dead seed stalks... i think the worst is we'll behind me..


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

It has been 3 long weeks and it is about 90% recovered... I'm back baby!


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## JP900++ (Aug 24, 2018)

Encouraging thread. I seem to struggle with the PGR apps as well. Last fall I yellowed it for weeks. This spring left for vacation and got inches of rain for days resulting in fungus. Now I'm seeing a little growth and we're moving into dry, with upper 90s and no irrigation system. Tough love I guess.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

JP900++ said:


> Encouraging thread. I seem to struggle with the PGR apps as well. Last fall I yellowed it for weeks. This spring left for vacation and got inches of rain for days resulting in fungus. Now I'm seeing a little growth and we're moving into dry, with upper 90s and no irrigation system. Tough love I guess.


Yeah I hear you... I got my first app right.. I need to be more careful in the future..


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## JP900++ (Aug 24, 2018)

Yeah. Yours is looking pretty darn good in the last shot.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Stuofsci02 said:


> It has been 3 long weeks and it is about 90% recovered... I'm back baby!


Turf looks awesome man. It's an eye sore for sure but once the PGR wears off and gives
the grass a chance to pop again, it will come back to normal. Just takes a little patience. I also gave the turf a small shot in the arm and applied .25lbs per 1M of UREA to spoon feed it and it helped the cause.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Thanks Scagg,

I also put down 0.9lbs N/K of a 32-0-4 synthetic fert last week to help it along... So far I can't argue with the results... I am sure it will mean more water over the next couple of weeks, but so be it...


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