# OnTheLawn's First Renovation: NJ - Fall 2020 GCI Turf TTTF Blend



## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Hey All! Relatively new to the community here, but have been perusing, researching, and learning as much as I can about lawn care over the last few months both here and on YouTube. I'll be tackling my first lawn renovation this year, but first a little backstory.

My wife and I bought our first home in October of 2019. I had always loved lawn care in the homes I grew up in, but never more than just mowing, landscaping, occasionally fertilizing, etc. When winter turned to spring here in southern NJ, my neighbors lawns were dominating mine and I wanted to turn it around. I ended up doing minimal research and ended up with a bag of Milorganite and a bag of Lesco seed because one of my family members recommended overseeding all throughout the year. Yea, I know.

So, I saw a rapid turnaround. My lawn greener up and the seed grew in fairly well. My lawn looked great. This was mid June:



However, I started to notice some problems. I had moss in some areas, some of the areas I had patched were browning a bit, and most of the seed that I had planted a couple of months earlier was just not maturing. It stayed a lime green and the blades were very thin. I then stumbled upon a YouTube video by The one and only Allyn Hane, the Lawn Care Nut... I was trying to figure out why I was seeing mushrooms pop up in my lawn. I then found myself deep in a hole of subscribing to every person I could. Ryan Knorr, Lawncology, GCI Turf, Lawn Rebel, all of them. I quickly realized the mistakes I made along the way:

1) no soil test
2) soil compaction left unaddressed
3) didn't measure my yard properly
4) bad about reading labels

All of these things seem so basic, but I really screwed them up at the beginning of my lawn journey. Basically, the seed I had planted was having a very hard time establishing a root system and maturing because my pH was very low (5.3) and the soil was very compacted. Also, because I didn't measure my yard properly and didn't really pay close enough attention to bag rates and labels - thinking my yard was almost twice as big as it actually was - I ended up applying more than double the amount of seed I needed to for overseeding and nearly twice the amount of fertilizer I needed. Now I was using mostly organic fertilizer, so fear of burn wasn't a problem, but I pushed insane top growth with each application and didn't even know micronutrients were a thing.

This was just a few weeks after that first picture:



Because of all the overcrowding, when the heat and humidity of late spring/early summer hit, the new grass checked out almost immediately. Whether it was disease or what, I'm not sure, but it went quick. And not just dormant, but dead. Never stood a chance. However, the more I learned from this great community the more I realized why, so I began focusing on the things I needed to fix.

Instead of focusing on the grass, I set my attention to the soil. I got a soil test done, put down some liquid aeration to loosen things up, and dethatched the lawn on the course to starting over. After some convincing and persuasion, I received the go ahead to do a full renovation, which brings me to today. Next post will discuss what steps I've begun taking, as well as what the next few weeks will look like.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

So, why a full renovation? Why not just overseed into the good grass that remains? Well, the number one reason is I'd like to have one type of grass to work with here in NJ. Eventually I may work in another type, but for now I'll be going with a TTTF blend. Also, my front lawn has sporadic weeds all over the place. The neighborhood I'm in has every weed you can imagine, so going with selective herbicides to try and control it is costly and difficult due to the many, many weed types we have. I also discovered patches of Bermuda once summer hit. There were areas of the lawn that were struggling a bit more than others during the spring and I couldn't figure out why. Once summer hit, the Bermuda reared it's ugly head and came to life. I decided that it would be best to just nuke the whole thing and start over!

Number two is the grade of the soil. It's very bumpy with multiple large low spots throughout. I wanted to get as much access to the soil as possible to get it leveled out, so hitting it with glyphosate and scalping it down would give me that.

Now, let's talk about the plan:

Last week I went through the lawn with glyphosate and spot treated every Bermuda patch I could find, as well as some of the more established weeds to start killing it off before making a full application. I then went through tonight and hit the entire lawn with glyphosate to begin the full kill. Here was my setup:



My front lawn is 1,400 sq ft, so using a one-gallon sprayer wasn't too much of a hassle. Any bigger though and I'd recommend sizing up to at least a two gallon. I did not use a spray indicator, but we'll see after a week how well I did with coverage. I did use a piece of cardboard to block the property line and protect my neighbors lawn, as well as the landscape beds. This is what the lawn now looks like after the initial spot treatment and continued die off:







Here are the next steps:

- Application of Liquid Soil Loosener from Simple Lawn Solutions. My plan is to hit the lawn with that on this coming Sunday to break up some bonds, loosen things up, and prepare for what's next

- Application of dolimitic lime 3-5 days after soil loosener app. My soil's pH came back at 5.3 with very low magnesium levels, so I'll be looking to correct that with a fast-acting dolimitic lime. Specifically, I'm using the Oldcastle Green n Grow from Home Depot. This will be a short term fix to bump the pH up quickly, and then I'll begin a long term fix once I complete my first soil test of 2021

- Second round of glyphosate one week from now. This will be to cover the lawn once more, with focus given to patches of Bermuda and areas I may have missed in tonight's app. I will be watering and fallowing the soil to encourage growth and get any more weed seeds to germinate. I may opt to do a third round of glyphosate a week after the second, but may just be more for spot treatment

- Scalping lawn and dethatching one week after second round of glyphosate

- Bringing in premium screened topsoil to fill low spots and level lawn. I found a place in southern NJ that provides a current soil analysis on their website. This soil is also combined with 20% compost. Once put out on the lawn I will continue watering to settle it down and get any weed seeds to germinate. Once they do I will hit them with glyphosate

- Once new soil is in I will make an application of Humic from Simple Lawn Solutions to encourage soil activity. I may also throw down an app of their Lawn Booster to get some iron into the soil, as my test revealed low iron levels. Not 100% sure about this though. May actually do it sooner before the new soil is in

- Target date for seed down is September 6th. Based on my areas average air temps, soil temps, and first frost date this should give me enough time to grow the grass in before our first frost. At a minimum, based on history, it will give me four weeks of growth

Seed choice: GCI Turf Services TTTF Blend
- Contains the following cultivars: Thor, Black Tail, and Falcon IV

Fertilizer choice: N-Ext DIY Seeding pack
- Contains multiple fertilizers to handle everything from starter to maintenance and growth, as well as a jug of RGS (Humic/sea kelp)

- Once seed is down, I will be raking it in and throwing down a thin layer of peat moss. I was contemplating using the Seed Aide Covergrow, but I'm not 100% sold on it yet and it'll be twice the cost of peat moss


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Well, hopefully the app I got in yesterday had enough time before the rain hit. Should be ok, as it sat on for about seven hours before the rain started at 11PM. I guess we'll find out in a few days!

I will also be ordering my fertilizers and reel mower shortly. Again, going with the N-Ext DIY seeding package. While this grass matures I'll be reel mowing it and have decided to go with the Great States 18" model. I was between that and the Earthwise 18", both made by the American Lawn Mower company and very similar in design. The main differences that I can see are:

- Earthwise max cutting height 3"
- Great States max cutting height 2.75"
- Earthwise has trailing wheels
- Great States has rollers

The max height was a factor, as I'll be growing TTTF. 2" is about the lowest I'll feel comfortable going within the genetic limits of the plant, but want to be able to go up to at least the 3" range. 2.75" isn't far off and for whatever reason I'm drawn more to the Great States than I am the Earthwise. Not sure why, but if anyone has input let me know!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Ok, almost everything has been ordered. Just scheduled my topsoil delivery for the 13th, ordered both the Great States reel mower and N-Ext seeding pack, as well as a liquid propiconazole to put down after germination. After reading some other journals and plans for renovations, I decided to add an application of both granular azoxy at seeding and liquid prop after germination.

I'm also considering putting an app of tenacity down, but I'm undecided. Getting an 8 oz bottle will be absolute overkill for my needs, so if I can find a small amount cheaper on here I'll go for it.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Got a new toy today:





Quick and easy setup, looking forward to the first mow!

Second round of glyphosate is kicking in now visually. Definitely seeing more die off and yellowing. Plan is to hit it again on Thursday, but with the tropical storm set to hit the next couple of days we'll see. I may bump the app to Wednesday, as right now that day looks clear and Thursday could be storms again.





Will also be throwing down my app of fast acting lime to bump the pH a bit. More than likely tomorrow night if the storm passes quickly. If not, I may push back the third glyphosate app and do the lime first to give it ample time before seed down.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Sorry if you said this and I missed it but how much lime are you putting down? My pH was 5.9 and I think I threw down 30 lbs / 1k sq ft over the past couple of months. Correcting pH is a lot of work.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

bf7 said:


> Sorry if you said this and I missed it but how much lime are you putting down? My pH was 5.9 and I think I threw down 30 lbs / 1k sq ft over the past couple of months. Correcting pH is a lot of work.


I'll only be throwing down about 8lbs/1000. I'm using a fast acting lime for a quick fix and then I'm going to reassess after winter. This rate won't do much for me long term - or at least I can't imagine it will being fast acting - but it should hold me through the fall and at least get the soil in a better range for now. Then hopefully we get a cold winter and I'll submit a new soil test right before spring to see where I'm at. At that point I'll begin the long term fix with heavier rates over the course of the year.


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## Matthew_73 (Jul 9, 2019)

I am on app 2 of Glypho I just mowed a lil lower will do it again hopefully one more app next week...


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry if you said this and I missed it but how much lime are you putting down? My pH was 5.9 and I think I threw down 30 lbs / 1k sq ft over the past couple of months. Correcting pH is a lot of work.
> ...


Good point. I didn't even know there was such a thing as fast vs slow release lime, nor did I pay attention to what I bought.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@bf7 yea for the fast acting they use an effective calcium carbonate equivalent that breaks down faster. Still has standard calcium in it that will have a long term impact, but it won't be nearly as significant at the rate I'm throwing it down. Matt Martin (@thegrassfactor ) has a great video on his YouTube channel explaining the different lines and their uses.

If your pH was a 5.9 you're really not too far off. The choice of lime really comes down to two numbers: pH and magnesium. If BOTH are low, you'll want to be throwing down dolimitic lime which contains higher amounts of magnesium. If Mg is fine and only pH is low, calicitic lime is best as it will work faster. Most bags will say which it is, but if not you'll want to look for magnesium carbonate on the analysis (I believe. Don't quote me 100% on this). But usually on the analysis it will tell you what type of lime it was prilled or taken from.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Matthew_73 said:


> I am on app 2 of Glypho I just mowed a lil lower will do it again hopefully one more app next week...


Nice! Next app for me will be tonight as long as winds are calm.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Alright, lime application is down! Finishing up watering it in now. Threw down 7lbs/1000 of the Oldcastle Green n Grow from Home Depot. Again, fast acting for a short term fix. Next spring will be the long term approach. We'll see on a few weeks how much this can move the needle. I went a pound less per K than bag rate as I'm going with TTTF, so don't need to spike it all the way to 7. 


Next up is round 2.5 of glyphosate tonight as long as the grass dries and winds are calm. That will give me one more week of full glyphosate application until the topsoil comes next Thursday. If I need to I may hit it again next Wednesday night, but more likely will spot spray at that point.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

PS: I'm not just using this as a pH meter! I did have a soil test done and it showed a 5.3 across the 10 samples I took. Some areas with this meter show higher, closer to 6, which is why I decided to go less than bag rate.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> @bf7 yea for the fast acting they use an effective calcium carbonate equivalent that breaks down faster. Still has standard calcium in it that will have a long term impact, but it won't be nearly as significant at the rate I'm throwing it down. Matt Martin (@thegrassfactor ) has a great video on his YouTube channel explaining the different lines and their uses.
> 
> If your pH was a 5.9 you're really not too far off. The choice of lime really comes down to two numbers: pH and magnesium. If BOTH are low, you'll want to be throwing down dolimitic lime which contains higher amounts of magnesium. If Mg is fine and only pH is low, calicitic lime is best as it will work faster. Most bags will say which it is, but if not you'll want to look for magnesium carbonate on the analysis (I believe. Don't quote me 100% on this). But usually on the analysis it will tell you what type of lime it was prilled or taken from.


Got it. Thank you for the info! I definitely got dolomitic because that's what my soil test recommended. But I had no idea it related to the magnesium. My magnesium ppm was 152, with optimum being 180-330. Like my pH, it was considered just below the "good" range.

My soil test recommended 43 lbs of lime per 1k for being just below "good". Not too expensive but just so much spreading. Can't imagine trying to correct a pH in the low range.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

bf7 said:


> OnTheLawn said:
> 
> 
> > @bf7 yea for the fast acting they use an effective calcium carbonate equivalent that breaks down faster. Still has standard calcium in it that will have a long term impact, but it won't be nearly as significant at the rate I'm throwing it down. Matt Martin (@thegrassfactor ) has a great video on his YouTube channel explaining the different lines and their uses.
> ...


You would know if it was fast acting. The bag would definitely say it and the label rates would be MUCH lower. But even if it was fast acting, you actually still need to apply the same recommended amount to get the long term correction. Since you're just below the optimal range then what you applied was perfect. It's a marathon to fully correct it, but you're on the right track.

And yea I'll have my work cut out for me come spring time once I re-test the soil and get the correction program going.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Got home in time last night to do round 2.5 of glyphosate. There definitely some areas I missed with the first full app, so made sure to target those first and then did a blanket covering of the entire lawn. Naturally it rained about 10 hours after this app, but it should be fine.

I'm now rethinking my top dressing selection based on the latest Ryan Knorr podcast. He and Ryan discuss different options and they talk about using compost because it has a better carbon to nitrogen ratio. The place I'm getting my topsoil delivered from has a leaf compost and provide an analysis and it looks like it'll do the trick. Problem is I only need a yard and the minimum for delivery is four yards. Going to try and borrow a truck and pickup myself since it's only a yard. If not I'll just stick with peat moss.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I dont have the time to listen to the podcast, but I'm pretty sure Ryan #2 is referring to properly cooked compost. Most compost sold at nurseries is not properly composted. It has wood pieces and possibly weed. Unless you know it is good, use peat moss.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Thanks for the input @g-man. I think it's a sign that I'm unable to get it delivered, so I'm gonna run with that. My buddy has a garden center that stocks bags of compost and he gives me a pretty good discount so I'm gonna go check out what he's got. Might be something worth throwing down, but peat moss will likely be the way to go here.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Just scored this older Brinly lawn roller for $45! Thank you Facebook marketplace. A little scratched up but functions perfectly. Got this for the cost of renting it for a couple days.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

The die off continues. Quick reminder: one spot application of glyphosate 7/23; one blanket application of glyphosate 7/30; second blanket application Of glyphosate 8/5. The first spot application worked insanely well with almost complete die off within a week. No rain that week whatsoever and it got to back. The first blanket app didn't work quite as well due to heavy rain occurring about five hours later. However, it still was effective. Second blanket app should take it home over the next week. I did have rain about 10 hours after application, but shouldn't be an issue as it sat all night. Here's some visuals:

7/30:




8/3:




8/6:


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

So I've been trying to figure out the best route for scalping and removing the dead stuff. The obvious choice is to scalp at the lowest setting of the mower and then get a dethatcher/scarifier to clean it up. Unfortunately, my budget is tapped out so no more toys. I could try and find a used one on Facebook/craigslist, but it's proving difficult. So, I came across the Arnold universal rotary blade that has "dethatching" tines you can insert in the blade. From the reviews I read, the blade really can tear up the lawn and shouldn't be used for general dethatching, but that may actually fit the bill for this. I went and picked one up for $20 at Lowes and here are some results from a test plot in the backyard:

Blade:


Pre Scalp and Dethatch:


Post Scalp, Pre Dethatch:



Post Scalp, Post Dethatch (right side):







The blade actually works really well for this purpose. The grass section was also only hit with one app of glyphosate one week ago, so the roots were still somewhat intact. Removed quite a bit and I'm happy with the results. Will be using this for the front lawn renovation for sure.

This plot is also going to be a test plot for grass seed. I'll be trying out a roll of Go Trax and two sections of the GCI TTTF side by side. The Go Trax will only be watered. One section of the GCI seed will get all the fixings from the N-EXT DIY seeding pack. The other section of the GCI seed will get nothing but top dressing and water.


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## Vtx531 (Jul 1, 2019)

Nice- It looks like that dethatcher blade worked great for your intended use.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

This is an interesting project. I will be following. Good luck!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

I think I may do one more plot with the GCI as a test. There's been some interesting articles out about Humic acid at seeding and it's effect on phosphorous availability in the soil. Let's figure on adding a fourth plot that will NOT have the Humic and RGS applications from the seeding pack and strictly the fertilizers.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

This is great. I've been looking for an alternative to renting a dethatcher. Is this the one you bought? Do you think it's still necessary to dethatch if I plan to put down an inch or so of topsoil?

16 in Dethatching Power Rake for Most Walk-Behind Mowers with Deck Cutting Width Up to 22 in
https://www.homedepot.com/p/308914247


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@MJR12284 that is not the blade, but it's close. I think that one would be better for thinning an existing lawn, but it may still work. This is the blade I picked up at Lowes. What I think I like about this one is you can adjust the length of the tines. So the first pass I'll have them even to scalp and remove as much vegetation as possible. Then I all adjust the tines so one side will be lower and can get into the soil and act as a light tiller and hopefully remove some more crap.

As for should you do it with adding 1" of topsoil? I say yes. It's going to take time for soil activity to eat up that dead vegetation, so I'd rather clear as much out as possible and allow the new seedlings as much soil to establish a root system as possible.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Alright, dilemma time. Tomorrow night was my target date for scalping and removing the dead vegetation with the rotary dethatching blade, but the weather isn't cooperating it seems and I could do it tonight. However, I still have some patches of green - albeit a sickly looking like green - around the lawn. I'm two blanket rounds of glyphosate in and can certainly do another one this morning, but my dilemma is that it will push back scalping and dethatching another 5-7 days, which means I'll have to push back getting the topsoil out, leveling, and beginning the fallowing process. I really want to fallow as long as possible before seed down, but not sure which route TK go. Do I throw down another app of gly? Do I just let it sit for the rest of the day in the sun and heat and scalp it tonight so I can start moving dirt tomorrow? Here's some pics of what I'm talking about:







There's a larger patch in the picture, plus some much smaller spots throughout the lawn. To me, this looks like Bermuda that just won't die. The patch in the picture I've hit three times, the last application only a few days ago. My gut is telling me to just wait it out a few more days and be patient, but I'm itching to get the scalping done so I can level and start fallowing. I do have a bit of a buffer with seed down target date and could move that back if necessary. Thoughts?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

I opted to leave it alone for now. I'll see what it looks like when I get home tonight and may just wait it out another few days. I built the buffer in for a reason and it's only 4-5 days delay hopefully. If the weather decides to play nice it could go quicker.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

@OnTheLawn What would be the reasoning for not just scalping now? If it doesn't all die you can still go spray it again after being scalped.


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## Tc200 (Jun 28, 2018)

ksturfguy said:


> @OnTheLawn What would be the reasoning for not just scalping now? If it doesn't all die you can still go spray it again after being scalped.


Agree with KS here, the point of scalping and fallowing is to see what's left that's green so you can continue the kill. I don't see any harm in proceeding with your plan, should be just right tonight to clean up and then rain tomorrow to start fallow.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Thanks for the input @ksturfguy and @Tc200. I guess my fear was that if this is Bermuda, I really wanted to make sure it was completely dead before covering it. I think you're right though, so I'll go ahead with the scalp and dethacth tonight and then the fallowing process will begin tomorrow. We'll see how much soil I can get spread tonight/tomorrow morning before the rain.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Ive never had Bermuda so not an expert but I dont think that's Bermuda, just fescue but maybe @Ware can tell you for sure.

Its just hard to tell from pics. What ever it is it appears to be in the neighbor yard as well and lighter green so maybe it is.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@ksturfguy therea definitely fescue mixed in there. There was a portion at the back part of the house that was purely that grass type though and really woke up during the summer. I struggled with some patches in the spring that just wouldn't fill out or grew up and then it came to life once June hit,which is why I thought Bermuda. Most warm season grasses don't make their way into this area, but Bermuda can. We'll see. After today it should be pretty toasted with the sun out.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Got home from work around 7:40 PM. Got in a scalp and dethatch with the rotary by sundown and then rakedall the clippings. I then went over it again with the manual dethatching rake. Finished up around 9:40 PM. Better pictures in the morning.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Looking good! I'm encouraged to see your progress with the scalping and the dethatching blade. I ordered the one you suggested and it arrives tomorrow. I already scalped but lots of dead grass still remains so we'll see what the dethatcher blade can do. I'll post pics. When is your planned seed down date?


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## Tc200 (Jun 28, 2018)

That's looking like a great seed bed, can't wait to see the daylight pictures.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

The daylight pictures don't do quite enough justice, but I am very pleased with how that blade really cleared a lot of vegetation out. It's going to make leveling and seeding much easier.





That second picture is a close up of the most heavily covered area remaining. That was one of the sections where the grass didn't appear completely dead yet. Still did a great job and o can go back in with the manual dethatcher and spot rake.

Still have about 700 sq ft left to do between the side of the house back to the fence and then the sidewalk strip. Praying for some good weather and just not looking at the weather reports that seem to change every hour. Tomorrow would be great as I'm off and could get a full day of work in. Here's to hoping.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

In other news, I put a handful of the GCI TTTF seed in a planter with some potting soil and Pennington starter fert just for fun. Planted it just a week ago and here it is this morning:



Saw germination in about four days. Really looking forward to this seed in my lawn!


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Looks good, I wouldn't worry too much about what you have left. That's not very thick at all. You should see my seed bed from last year and it turned out just fine. You should be in great shape.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@MJR12284, the potential seed down date is 9/3. I may push that back a week or so to fallow for slightly longer. We'll see how things look once I'm back from a short anniversary trip on 9/2 and how much has sprouted after watering that week. If it's negligible I'm going to throw down.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

It's looking like the storms may pass today in my area. We're down to about a 40-50% chance around 3-4 PM and then temperature drops to 82° around 6 PM. This could work out really well so I'd have about an hour to spread soil and level before the Flyers beat the Canadiens.


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## Ngilbe36 (Jul 23, 2020)

Let me know what your opinion is on the reel mower. Im looking at the same one since id rather not hit my newly planted section with my 42in rotary zero-turn mower.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@Ngilbe36 will do. I probably won't have my first mow on the renovation until late September, but I'm going to test it out on a patch in the backyard once I get a chance to mow it down to about 3" with the rotary.

What I can you is that out of the box it feels very well built and sturdy and assembly was a piece of cake. Just a few wing nuts and bolts.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> @MJR12284, the potential seed down date is 9/3. I may push that back a week or so to fallow for slightly longer. We'll see how things look once I'm back from a short anniversary trip on 9/2 and how much has sprouted after watering that week. If it's negligible I'm going to throw down.


Nice. I'm looking at 8/30. Have top soil being deliver on Friday and then I'll fallow for 2 weeks. Looking forward to seeing your progress

Ps. Sorry to hear you are a Flyers fan. :lol: :lol:


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Well, the storm did not pass apparently. We'll see how bad it is when I get home, but hopefully should be cleared up by then. With any luck it will have passed through quick and I have the topsoil covered so it should stay dry. Might be able to spread some tonight.

And @MJR12284 if I had to guess considering you're in north Jersey, I'd peg you for Devils, Rangers, or outside shot at Islanders. If it's either of the former two then sir, it is ME who is truly sorry. However if it's the Rangers then God blessed you with Alexis Lafrenière so I'm not as sorry if that's the case.


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## Ngilbe36 (Jul 23, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> @Ngilbe36 will do. I probably won't have my first mow on the renovation until late September, but I'm going to test it out on a patch in the backyard once I get a chance to mow it down to about 3" with the rotary.
> 
> What I can you is that out of the box it feels very well built and sturdy and assembly was a piece of cake. Just a few wing nuts and bolts.


Ill actually need to mow before you then haha. I overseeded my front this past weekend and I am new seeding an area in my back yard that I tilled, leveled, topdressed and am currently fallowing this coming weekend.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

OnTheLawn said:


> Got home from work around 7:40 PM. Got in a scalp and dethatch with the rotary by sundown and then rakedall the clippings. I then went over it again with the manual dethatching rake. Finished up around 9:40 PM. Better pictures in the morning.


Dude this looks amazing from that mower blade. Rocking and rolling on this reno.
I like how your seed down date is closer to the end of August...I keep telling myself to rush the fallow step then I see the sh*t growing out of it and I'm like yeah....let's stay at this step haha!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Welp, too wet to do anything tonight. However, I did put out one pile of dirt last night knowing it was going to rain to see how it settled and what might come up. Lots of small rocks and mulch. The mulch I'm not terribly worried about, but the rocks could be a problem. I think I may build a softer with 1/4" hardware cloth. Maybe 1/2". Not sure yet. Anyone have thoughts on this?


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> Well, the storm did not pass apparently. We'll see how bad it is when I get home, but hopefully should be cleared up by then. With any luck it will have passed through quick and I have the topsoil covered so it should stay dry. Might be able to spread some tonight.
> 
> And @MJR12284 if I had to guess considering you're in north Jersey, I'd peg you for Devils, Rangers, or outside shot at Islanders. If it's either of the former two then sir, it is ME who is truly sorry. However if it's the Rangers then God blessed you with Alexis Lafrenière so I'm not as sorry if that's the case.


LGR!!!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

This weather is killing me. My day off and it's been lightly drizzling now for a bit with heavier rain starting now. Not looking like I'll be able to get the rest of the dethatching and raking done today. I have decided to screen/sift the topsoil and started construction on it yesterday. Had a couple 2x4s laying around and I'm heading to Lowes to pickup some 1/4" hardware cloth. I'll finish the screener up today and then this rain will give me time to get my new garage door opener installed! Hooray!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Been a rocky August so far for weather...really throwing a wrench in many of our reno's.

Just got .56inch of rain in less than an hour here. No bueno.

In regards to the pebbles - I let mine stay in the topsoil without sifting them out. They will get pushed in over time.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@JerseyGreens it certainly has been rocky. Tomorrow may let up a bit and there's a chance I can get some soil spread in the morning. If it can clear up by Sunday that'll be perfect as I'm off again.

Sifter is completed. Again, went with 1/4" hardware cloth. We'll see how much time this adds to the process, as I may can the idea after getting the main section of the lawn done.



While I'm waiting for the rain to pass I'll just keep staring at this to keep my spirits up. One week since putting in this planter.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Beautiful babies.

Oh you are going to find a ton of crap with that sifter. Well built for sure.

Probably going to see stuff that scares you into ever buying topsoil ever again man!!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@JerseyGreens a ton of crap is right! It does add some time to the process but I think it'll be worth it.

The rain finally passed and I was able to put it in some work. The remaining dead grass was too matted down to use the rotary mower dethatching blade, so I went to work with the manual rake. Because it was wet it actually made it easier to pull everything up and worked well, definitely not as back breaking as normal when it's dry.



I then broke out the sifter and put three shovel fulls in and here was what it filtered out:



Again, not sure I'll use this for the entire project. The dirt was slightly damp, so that definitely added to how long it took to do it, but this will at least double if not triple the time it'll take to get the dirt spread.

Anyways, I then raked the sidewalk strip, which was the most out of level area. I actually robbed from Peter to pay Paul for sections of this it was that bad. I broke it up, shoveled some to other areas, and just raked it out a ton and started spreading and leveling. I was using a DIY landscape rake - a 2x4 zip tied to a rake - but I'm thinking I may just go get a landscape rake. It works, but not as well as I was hoping.

After leveling I rolled it with the Brinly and realized my perfectionist mindset could get me in trouble on this project. I'll have to keep that in check. After I rolled it I went back and grabbed about half a wheel barrow full of sifted top soil and spread it, leveled it, and rolled it again.

All in all I'm happy with the results, but I'll definitely need to think about picking up a landscape rake.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Got some more dirt sifted, moved, and leveled last night and this morning. Not making as much progress as I want, but daylight hours are waning and I lost the entire day Thursday, so can't really complain. Plan is too keep moving along and not worry about getting it perfectly level for now. Once the bulk of it is spread and rolled I'll go back over and fill in areas that are off, spots here and there, and roll again. It's coming along!



However, I seem to have disturbed some ants and they don't appear to happy about it. @g-man @JerseyGreens any recommendations on what to throw down for this if anything?


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

You did a nice job with the dirt!

I would say negative on anything for the ants. They were there long before the new soil showed up.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@JerseyGreens thank you! It's coming along and the landscape rake is making things much easier haha. Not sure what I was thinking trying to do it without it.

As for the ants, they have been there a looooong time. Put down a granular insecticide in early spring and it knocked me back a little bit. Wasn't sure if I should throw/spray something now to at least control them for a few weeks so they don't disturb the soil during seed down/germination.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Decided to pickup some Ortho Bifenthrin concentrate, as well as some Terro outdoor baits. I don't see anything on the label about spraying Bifen before seeding, so I'm assuming it's ok. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I may not even spray it as I'm going to stick the baits out first for a while to try and kill the colonies. Always nice to have bifen on hand though.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Rain today. Naturally, my day off. Doesn't appear that it'll let up until later in the afternoon, so not sure I'll be able to get much done today if anything. I think the real problem with a rainy day is that it gives me more time to think, as I'm now debating what to do underneath the Japanese Maple in the front yard.

The sun coverage in this area is spotty and sporadic. Some areas get hit multiple times per day, some not at all. I was just going to stick with the GCI TTTF and see how it did, but there's a part of me that wants to throw down some Mazama KBG. According to SSS, that cultivar performed the best of any bluegrass n the shade, so thought it might be cool to have a small monostand section of it just under the tree and see how it held up. I put out a feeler in the marketplace for a small amount - I'll only need a pound - and if I can get some for a reasonable price I may go for it.

The area in question:


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@OnTheLawn I saw your feeler and I have some. How quickly do you need it? I'm still waiting to see if I'll need to use a bit more on my reno or not.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@synergy0852 i was actually going to PM you! Don't need it too quickly, maybe within the next few weeks. I still haven't spread the soil there and fallowed, but I'll take it as soon as you can get it to me, whatever works for you. I just looked at the seeding rate again and I actually only need about a half pound. The section is about 200 sq ft. Let me know!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Will do. Mind sending me that PM to help me remember it was you who is looking?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@synergy0852 PMd!

Also, a quick update on the planter babies: still growing strong and decided to put in a splash of 6-0-0 lawn booster micro dose and Humic/fulvic root booster from Simple Lawn Solutions. I figure the planter is about a square foot, so I put in 1/3 mL of each, mixed it in water, and poured it in. This will add some micros to it and get a SMALL amount of quick release nitro.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Nice!!

See this is a reminder. Look at all of those pebbles. They wont matter in the long run!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Test plots are down! Far right section is obviously the Grow Trax. I forget what the blend is but it's got a bit of everything; KBG, PRG, TTTF, FF. The highlighted section in the middle is. 2'x9' plot of the GCI TTTF with zero fertilizer, growing as-is. The remaining plot to the left, about 40 sq ft, will be the GCI TTTF with the N-EXT DIY seeding pack fertilization plan. Today it received the RGS and GreenePOP 16-21-2. I spread the seed, raked it in, tamped it with a shovel, fertilized the left plot, and then covered it with a layer of peat moss and watered.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

First layer of dirt on the main area is complete. Still have to do the area under the maple, but I hit that with a blanket of gly due to a LOT of new grass popping up with this rain. Haven't had anything of note really come through the new dirt on the main area though thankfully.

The weather has really slowed me down here, but with the current reports I should have the topsoil completely done by Thursday afternoon. Did what I could today before work, but it's looking like Thursday is going to be nice and sunny on my day off, which will give me all day. The plan is to put the first layer down under the maple, then go over and fine tune the level with most of the remaining dirt in the main area, and finally a last layer under the maple. Then the fallow process begins!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Looking good. Give it time. Stuff will grow out of this. Trust me!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@JerseyGreens oh I'm anticipating it! With the rain we had the last week or so I'm sure some stuff will germinate any day now. Thankfully there haven't build too many major puddles and the soil is draining fairly well everywhere. There's some definite low spots that need raising and then fine tuning everywhere, but I'm very pleased with how it's turned out so far. It won't be perfect, but next fall I'll be able to do some sand/compost leveling in areas that settle, which will inevitably happen.

Progress is progress though. Have been taking small steps the last couple of weeks, but it's getting there.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Alright, a few updates here.

1) Germination in test plots! Both areas of the GCI TTTF have sprouted, about equal measure in both plots. Not surprising, as the fertilizer shouldn't do much to expedite germination, so now we'll see if there's a difference in maturation



2) Leveling is done! It took much longer than anticipated, it finally got it to a point I'm happy with. Sifting all of that dirt was not exactly fun, but having sifted dirt to work with on the ground was a piece of cake for leveling. We have now reached the fallowing stage, which is a great time to figure out the irrigation situation. My yard is shape such a way that I can cover it with just two oscillating sprinkler, or one oscillating sprinkler and one impact sprinkler. I haven't decided yet which setup, but I'll be using the fallowing stage to determine that. The impact sprinkler I have is the Gilmour Patter Master, so I can really fine tune the trajectory, pattern, and output and almost make it more of a mist than a stream. The battle begins tomorrow.







3) These babies are in need of their first mow! Kind of cray that first signs of germination were on the 11th and just ten days later were at almost 3". We've reached 2-leaf stage on most plants at this point.





A couple other things of note:

- Thanks to @synergy0852, I will be doing a monostand of Mazama KBG under the maple tree. I picked up shears today to cut back some branches and create a little more sunlight for the area, as well as create more clearance for the sprinklers if I go with both oscillating sprinklers.

- Target seed down date is September 3rd depending on how the fallowing stage goes and what the weather turns out to be. Then it will be full head of steam from there!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

This is looking very ready for seed down! Nice smooth flat surface to work with.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Looks spot on. Fallow time is fun. I've been picking up crabgrass and it's fun haha


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

:thumbsup:


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

I'm finding a few of spots that are collecting water due to trees, which is also leading to uneven coverage. It's hitting some branches and dropping straight down, so trimming will definitely be required. Unfortunate thing is I have to now wait for those spots to dry out before getting a ladder on them haha. I'll tackle that tomorrow morning and have decided my best course of action for coverage is going to be a dual oscillating setup.

I will also be testing out hydretain on the hell strip since the sprinklers don't quite reach it well enough.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

you will definitely find this throughout the fallow stage...I still have spots that watering up today as I water the seed in this hot weather.

It sucks but it's one of those things where if it aint muddy - I just let go, haha!

Great idea trimming back those trees though - should definitely help a ton.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@JerseyGreens yea the tree trimming is no problem and should take care of it. The real problem is doing it without the wife noticing haha. One tree is of no concern, but the maple... we'll see how ninja I can be about this.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Well, today started with a side project:



I had quite a bit of dirt leftover so I moved it to the backyard and did some minor leveling with it. I then put seed down, raked it in, rolled it, put down hydretain, fertilized with GreenePOP, covered with peat moss, and began watering. Not even five minutes after completing it...pop up rain storm out of nowhere that dropped about an inch in less than a half hour and has been raining lightly since. Hopefully it all hangs on!



This also brought up some issues with low spots and run off in the front lawn. I find though that while it's raining, things appear much worse than they actually are. After it slows things don't look nearly as bad. Despite that, I've got some low spots that I need to address and some run off issues that I'll have to plan for. The grade of the front yard moves toward the street the whole way, which is ideal for the flow away from the house, but with no vegetation in place to hold the soil a severe storm could do some damage.









You can vaguely see the water trails going to the sidewalk. Again, not a disaster, but I'll need to prep for this come seed down. My plan is to use Pennington Slopemaster around the perimeter at the sidewalks for about 2-3 feet of full coverage, and then spread some throughout the remainder of the main area to tackify it a bit. The plot under the maple is holding up just fine with run off, so may just run it around the perimeter there and be done with it.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Welp, a bit discouraged today with this pop up rain storm that occurred. The damage isn't bad by any means, but I'll need to adjust some things now and rework the front corner of the lawn. Not a big deal, just some extra effort. Thank God I have some extra topsoil! I'll screen some, fill in the low spots, re-level the front corner where the runoff is occurring, and then try to raise the grade there slightly so that it doesn't runoff quite as much.

On to the encouraging parts of today!

The test plots are growing, but we're definitely seeing some differences between the two GCI plots.







The first is obviously the overall shot, which you can't see much of a difference. The second picture is of the GCI TTTF plot that did not receive any fertilizer at seed down. The third picture is the GCI TTTF that did receive the 16-21-2 GreenePOP and RGS. It's a bit more difficult to tell in the pictures, but the fertilized plot is definitely outpacing the non-fertilized plot early on. It's not a ton, but I'd say maybe a 1/4-1/2" more of growth on average. The Grow Trax blanket has a couple of patches and is proving a bit worthless at this point haha. Anyways, the GCI TTTF is only a few days out from germination and the fertilized plot is over an inch at this point. Kind of insane. I have to hand it to Pete with this seed and his choice of cultivars.

Here is the planter:







This is 12 days after germination. I've cut it and we've reached 3-leaf stage. The stand is getting much stronger and more mature and the color is already a nice dark green. I'm
Incredibly impressed with this seed so far and cannot wait to get seed down on the actual front lawn!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

All normal stuff happening with that front yard. I had the same issues and called it a day and threw down the seed. I'm having water puddling still and should be OK. Will take longer for it to germ but it will.

You got this!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@JerseyGreens yea it's all good! I think what really freaked me out was how out of nowhere the rain came from. I knew there was a slight chance of a storm early this morning, but then out of nowhere we went from clear blue skies and sun to downpour within minutes. That storm that you posted about staying south... it stayed south! It's all good though. These things bring up issues that are better addressed now and probably wouldn't realize once the grass is grown in. Thankfully I have time to fix it!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Went out this morning to review the test plots and the difference was even greater.





Emailed these findings to Pete and he's going to be sharing it on Instagram! Very cool results. We'll have an even greater idea once I can pull some plugs and check root activity and growth in a couple of weeks.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Wow, the deep dark green in that second shot with the tape measure is incredible! I think you seeded your test plots one day ahead of me and the GCI already looks like mature grass lol.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Alright, here's the plan for up to seed down:

- 8/25 PM: fill in some low spots and run off areas

- 8/26 AM: application of Simple Lawn Solutions 6-0-0 Lawn Energizer at 10 oz/1000

- 8/26 PM: gly apps and spot treatments

- 8/27 PM: application of Carbon Earth X Soil at 15 lbs/1000

- 8/28-9/2: water, water, water. We will be away for our anniversary trip and will have the Melnor water timer controlling things. The father-in-law will be dog sitting and I will have him run over to adjust as necessary based on weather

- 9/2 PM: final walk to check for weeds/grass that has not died off. Hit with final spot treatments of gly if necessary. Level off any final spots that are low after watering and then rake top 1/4" of soil with the dethatching rake to begin prepping seed bed. Run sprinklers for 5 minutes for some moisture

- 9/3 ALL DAY: SEED DOWN DAY!

Final seed bed prep

GCI TTTF blend thrown down at 10 lbs /1000 in main area

Mazama KBG thrown down (1/2 lb total) under maple tree

Seed raked in lightly with dethatching rake

Soil rolled after seed down with roller half full

Tenacity application at 4 oz/A (0.11 oz total over the bare 1200 sq ft)

Application of Scott's Disease X at 2 lbs /1000

Application of N-EXT 16-21-2 GreenePOP (12oz /1000) and N-EXT RGS (3 oz /1000)

Pennington Slopemaster applied to perimeter along sidewalks at full rate, remainder spread in main area to slow run off at lower rate

Peat moss spread over entire lawn

Water

Am I missing anything?


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

From a steps standpoint all looks well - triple check all of your rates!

The SLL Liquid Soil Loosener is a no-go - they say not to use it around seed down day. I think they say use it 4 weeks before putting seed down. I'd skip it. Getting lots of humates down from the other stuff.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> From a steps standpoint all looks well - triple check all of your rates!
> 
> The SLL Liquid Soil Loosener is a no-go - they say not to use it around seed down day. I think they say use it 4 weeks before putting seed down. I'd skip it. Getting lots of humates down from the other stuff.


Copy that. That has been my only questionable app in my mind. I applied at the full rate about four weeks ago, which would put me at about six weeks prior to seed down. I think you're right though and I'll skip it!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Also @JerseyGreens I will be triple checking my measurements. The biggest mistake I made next to not getting a soil test done early on was not measuring properly. I'll be getting out there tomorrow AM before applying the 6-0-0 to remeasure everything once more just to be safe.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Spent about an hour this morning filling in some low spots and rolling. Then went through the entire main area and broke up the top half inch, put a bit more sifted soil down, and reworked it and rolled it.

6-0-0 + micros Lawn Energizer app down followed by a quick water-in over the entire lawn. Next and last apps before seed down will be the X Soil followed by a shot of RGS and Humic at 3 oz /1000 each. The latter two I'm still debating... they're part of the N-EXT seeding plan, but haven't decided just yet if I'm going to do them.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Mazama is here! Thank you much @synergy0852. The mono stand is gonna look great under that maple.



I also decided to do an app of the Humic and RGS. I did 6 oz /1000 of each and watered it in for ten minutes. Last and final app of anything before seed down will be X Soil tomorrow night. Officially one week out!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Glad it made it....even a day ahead of schedule! Good luck with your seeding!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

So the reason I was debating doing the Humic and RGS applications was because of the controversy surrounding Humic acid and it's reaction with phosphorus in the soil. There are studies that have shown that Humic acid can actually lock up phosphorous making it unavailable to the plant. I was very confused by this because I couldn't imagine John Perry having both products and a seeding plan with such a relationship with the two both leading up to, and on seed-down day, if there was an issue with this.

Thankfully, he released a video this morning explaining why Humic is beneficial at seeding and just in the soil in general. It all comes down to the Humic SOURCE and how it's applied. If it's a quality source and is in concentrated liquid form, it acts as a chelating agent and reacts with nutrients in the soil to make them more available, especially phosphorous. When it's applied in granular or powder form, the source is vastly different and can lock things up. This has cleared up a lot of confusion and I highly recommend checking the video out. He obviously explains it much better than I can!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

OnTheLawn said:


> So the reason I was debating doing the Humic and RGS applications was because of the controversy surrounding Humic acid and it's reaction with phosphorus in the soil. There are studies that have shown that Humic acid can actually lock up phosphorous making it unavailable to the plant. I was very confused by this because I couldn't imagine John Perry having both products and a seeding plan with such a relationship with the two both leading up to, and on seed-down day, if there was an issue with this.
> 
> Thankfully, he released a video this morning explaining why Humic is beneficial at seeding and just in the soil in general. It all comes down to the Humic SOURCE and how it's applied. If it's a quality source and is in concentrated liquid form, it acts as a chelating agent and reacts with nutrients in the soil to make them more available, especially phosphorous. When it's applied in granular or powder form, the source is vastly different and can lock things up. This has cleared up a lot of confusion and I highly recommend checking the video out. He obviously explains it much better than I can!


Thanks for sharing this - I'll have to find this video!

I use Andersons Humic DG - they've been doing the Humic thing well before others and the % of Humic/Fulvic acid per LB is unbeatable by any other source. I got some granules on my sidewalk and they legit self-destruct into a large black humic circle as soon as water hits them.

Humic/Fulvic is no joke people - that plus Milo turned my old lawn around in 1 year. I'm a big believer and I'm glad a fellow local is on Team Humic as well!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@JerseyGreens one of the most insane responses I saw from an application was putting down the Simple Lawn Solutions Humic acid/sea kelp combo. Literally overnight the section I put it down in spring back to life. The video is on the Lawncology channel, I'll try to link it here for ya. He explains it as basically a releasing agent for nutrients and that depending on your soil type, the nutrients may not be readily available to your plant. So when you apply Humic in the right form from the right source and it's a quality concentrate, it can help release those nutrients and BAM they're suddenly available for the plant. He also talks about how Humic acid cannot be a replacement for fertilizer because it's really only effective if N-P-K are stuck.

peDGnLgA5AY]Here[/MEDIA] is the link to the video


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

@OnTheLawn
@JerseyGreens
^+1 on the conversation. 
You both make great points. I've been a fan of HA for 10+ years, from research and experience in the industry (on the lawn care side). I am always learning, and have seen significant improvements over the years. Hydra Hume DG was my first venture in HA circa 2007 (give or take). As I've applied in the following years, it definitely helped. I got the buy in on Doc's Anderson's sale last year, and applied Humic DG at the end of last summer and this spring. I like it as a granular product (better than the Hydra Hume DG). I think it's a good product to put down in large quantities, quickly. However, I have really become a fan of the liquids. I've used SLS Root Hume, and N-Ext products (Rgs and Air-8). I like the Root Hume, but it still had particles left in my pump sprayer afterwards. The N-Ext products seemed to be more highly refined. On a side note, I purchased SLS 15-0-15 to spray as a foliar (due to a K deficiency), and I loved it. It had an almost immediate response at low concentration (3 oz per gallon/1000-label rate for pump sprayer). Someone commented in my log that that thought was a very low N rate, but the combo with H/F A really worked well. One other variable to note was that my pH was low and I added some liquid lime around that time and that may have enhanced the response. Too low/high of a pH can also result in locked up nutrients, so that should be a very important consideration. I took my first soil test this year (after many years of experimenting) and it was well worthwhile. I am still addressing deficiencies.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@Chris LI
@JerseyGreens

IXBQQR9WVJI]Here[/MEDIA] is another video from John on Humic acid and the different forms. What I love about his channel is that 1) he explains the science behind it and 2) also gives you a practical and/or visual representation of what he's talking about to break it down in a simpler way. Incredibly informative and explains the pros/cons of the three major types (water soluble, granular, and liquid).


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Indeed - if you want to speed up turning your "OK" topsoil into something nice, dark, readily available for nutrient uptake then throw down large amount of Andersons Humic DG. Gets to work quickly.

Moving forward it will be interesting if I move on to the liquid form.

I hate hose-end sprayers with a passion and I'm still not sure how well Humic/Fulvic work on a foliar basis - although people swear by it!


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

+1 on that second video. I remembered it as soon as it popped up with the blue thumbs up. I think I watched it a year ago and it was one of the many avenues of research I did before trying Rgs and Air-8 this year.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Alright party people, I walked the lawn this morning before leaving and noticed a lot of grass and weeds popping up. I want to have the father-in-law spot spray those areas with killer on Sunday after the storms tomorrow, but not sure I want him having to mix up glyphosate and the whole nine. Thinking I may just order a ready-to-spray killer from Lowes for pickup along with the Slopemaster and have him pick it up. Any thoughts on what to get? Obviously need something that doesn't have extended control, but trying to figure this out on the beach is tough! I'm looking at doing the Spectracide gallon jug that's ready to go, but not sure if there's something better to use. Thoughts?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

I decided on the Spectracide. It has a 7-day wait period just like Round Up, but should be fine. If he hits it tomorrow that's at least 3 days before seed down and should be ok despite the different AIs. Based on reports about the weather, sounds like we got hit hard with rain last night and today. I have a feeling I'll be needing to reapply the X Soil. No big deal, was hoping to have the rest of the bag for a spring application on 2021, but whatever.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I'm hoping you have a better weather pattern after seed down.

For those that seeded in our area 10-14 days ago...we got hit hard with washout...

You can have all of your aces lined up but that weather...plays such a huge role. Wish I got no rain for 3 weeks even though it would hit my water bill...it is what it is...

Truly wish you better luck with the weather!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@JerseyGreens here's to hoping. The forecast changes every hour so planning and picking a date at this point is futile haha. You just never know with all the storms coming from the coast and the Midwest now.

Original plan was to go seed down on 9/3. We'll be home from our trip on 9/1 afternoon, but as of right now it's supposed to rain that day, so getting in my final gly apps that day will be a stretch. If I can, and the forecast clears up for 9/3, I may be able to get seed down on 9/2 if I wanted to push it. However, current chances of storms for 9/3, so my best move may be to just wait it out, get my final gly app down, prep the bed, and wait. Then wake up Thursday 9/3 and see what the forecast is looking like. I still have buffer time, but I don't want to push it back any further than Sunday 9/6. If the forecast clears up though, or the storms won't be too bad, I may push it and go 9/2. Again, this is sort of futile thinking because the forecasts change every hour, but I'm hoping they move out and we're left with mid-80s and nights below 70° all week!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I'm not meteorologist but based on the weather it feels like the weather pattern has changed.

Truly hoping no unexpected thunderstorms in the future anymore.

You are doing 100% TTTF with no KBG right? If so you are going to our other Reno's look like jokes!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@JerseyGreens yup, 100% TTTF blend in the main area. I am also doing a monostand of Mazama KBG under the maple tree in a small area.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

You should have no issues at all. Honestly.

First time I'm growing KBG and it's keeping me up at night!


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

If the Spectracide only has glyphosate as the Active Ingredient, then you can seed the day after seeding. Many of us have done it. I think they mention the 7-day waiting period as an extra precaution. I didn't notice it interfering with germination.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Returned from our trip and the damage from the last storm wasn't all too bad. There's some definite areas where the X Soil pooled and washed to, but nothing I can't fix with a little bit more dirt. I haven't looked at the weather report yet and I'm just going to wake up, take a look, and see what tomorrow gives me. Put down. Some more glyphosate tonight and that should do it.

Tomorrow will be focused on prepping the bed for seed. Going to go through and fill in some of the minor low spots from the last storm and then break up the top half inch or so with the dethatching rake and smooth it all out. Depending how quickly I can get that done and what the weather holds, seed may go down tomorrow.


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## Thejarrod (Aug 5, 2018)

apologies if i missed this in your plan, but did you consider Hydretain when seeding?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@Thejarrod I have considered it, but don't think I'll be doing it anywhere except the hell strip. I like the idea of it, but I prefer to have more control over how much water the the soil is getting.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Well, weather reports are varying widely. I have one telling me we're at about a 60% chance of storms around 9pm. Another saying up to 50% chance of rain during the day and then up to 50% chance of storms at 9pm. Another telling me 60% chance of rain overnight. Another telling just a 40% chance of rain later tonight.

As I sit and debate about what to do today based on the varying weather reports, a quick update on the test plots and backyard project:





Test plots are growing in nicely, with the exception of the GrowTrax, obviously. I gave the fertilized plot a mow before we left at 2.75" and it needs another one. The unfertilized plot still hasn't received a mow and I don't know how much would even be taken off if I did run the reel over it. Tillering is getting more aggressive though in both plots, but the fertilized plot has really taken off and is maturing more rapidly. I didn't put any tenacity down, so some crabgrass has popped up, especially in the GrowTrax area. I'll just hand pull though, no big deal.

The backyard project has some serious germ and growth in some areas, but there was a ton of washout in others and barely anything coming through. The rain we got immediately after I seeded back there really did a number on things, which has me hesitant to go seed down out front with any chance of rain in the forecast. I'm seeing that the areas where the peat moss wash to also have the greatest amount of germination and growth. My guess is that these were low points everything washed to, so those spots ended up with the most seed and best coverage. Makes sense.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

You still have some "time" since you are planting 100% TTTF.

Really a game time decision but this weather pattern is here until Friday it looks like - cloudy/rain on and off.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@JerseyGreens I've decided that at the very least the Mazama is going down under the maple. That area is protected by rain due to the tree cover and isn't prone to wash out. The main area that's 100% TTTF will be a waiting game.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Seed is down under the maple! Taking a break and will decide whether or not to seed the rest shortly.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

The countdown begins....


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Game on!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Ladies and gents, SEED. IS. DOWN.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

:thumbsup:


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Let's go!!!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

I'll post this over in the reno thread as well, but one thing I noticed with using the peat moss. Once you put a layer down, lightly spray it with a misting stream, something with finer droplets. This will get the initial moisture to penetrate, as well as highlight any spots where you missed, or didn't cover enough. Once you have it wet you'll see the spots you missed and can go back over it and fill those spots in.

Also, the Slopemaster is super easy to apply and I recommend doing it with a broadcast spreader. Get it out and making a ton of passes walking on it to push it into the soil. I even rolled some section in to get it down in there. This way as it breaks down the tackifier is able to get deeper into the soil and hold into things.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

A light rain has started. Let's hope this passes quickly!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

That is the perfect kind of rain to help things settle in.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

It died off almost completely now. Didn't mind it actually and was planning on some rain. Hopefully that's all we get though and I can wake up early to monitor things moisture wise.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Got about 1/8" total rain last night. Kept the ground moist, but didn't move anything. The perfect rain! Hallelujah!

Woke up this morning and everything looks great. Surface is still moist, but will need watering soon. Set the timers for 7:30am start. I'll be monitoring today to get the schedule worked out for when I'm back to work tomorrow. Tentatively, I have it set for:

- 7:30 AM (12 mins)
- 11:30 AM (10 mins)
- 2:30 PM (8 mins)
- 5:00 PM (8 mins)

The second area gets hit 15 minutes after all of those times and for about half the length of time. I'll need to adjust, but today should give me good conditions for monitoring.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

OnTheLawn said:


> Got about 1/8" total rain last night. Kept the ground moist, but didn't move anything. The perfect rain! Hallelujah!
> 
> Woke up this morning and everything looks great. Surface is still moist, but will need watering soon. Set the timers for 7:30am start. I'll be monitoring today to get the schedule worked out for when I'm back to work tomorrow. Tentatively, I have it set for:
> 
> ...


I saw those storms marching across last night and had the ah crap moment for you - glad all is well!

I'll add this - everyday is different. Days full of sun, versus overcast, versus high/low humidity. It's such a dog and pony getting the watering right.

At 13 days since my original seed down - I will probably conclude that I was over watering (a bit).


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@JerseyGreens yup, whatever storms there were in my area were out of distance by quit a bit because we got virtually nothing. I heard thunder elsewhere, but didn't see any lightning, so it must have been a decent distance away.

Today is another one of those days with some rain projected for later on, so we'll see. Things are setting down nicely though. The only thing I have left to do is the hell strip and an area I share with my neighbor that I'll be overseeding.

For the hell strip, not sure exactly what I want to do. I have plenty of that GrowTrax crap that I could just throw down with some hydretain and be done with it, but that just feels too easy. I was also thinking of doing a GCI TTTF and Mazama mix to see how that looked because next year I may opt to overseesd with a KBG in the main lawn. Or I could just stick to 100% TTTF. Regardless, I'll be using hydretain to keep as low maintenance as possible.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

OnTheLawn said:


> @JerseyGreens yup, whatever storms there were in my area were out of distance by quit a bit because we got virtually nothing. I heard thunder elsewhere, but didn't see any lightning, so it must have been a decent distance away.
> 
> Today is another one of those days with some rain projected for later on, so we'll see. Things are setting down nicely though. The only thing I have left to do is the hell strip and an area I share with my neighbor that I'll be overseeding.
> 
> For the hell strip, not sure exactly what I want to do. I have plenty of that GrowTrax crap that I could just throw down with some hydretain and be done with it, but that just feels too easy. I was also thinking of doing a GCI TTTF and Mazama mix to see how that looked because next year I may opt to overseesd with a KBG in the main lawn. Or I could just stick to 100% TTTF. Regardless, I'll be using hydretain to keep as low maintenance as possible.


If it a hell strip and you don't want to maintain it to much, I might go with the TTTF over KBG. It does better in heat, and hopefully with hydretain can look decent through the rough months.

I am in Chicago and my hell strip is KBG and I do nothing with it. It looks like straw right now... While my main area that is all KBG too looks green with some heat stressed spots even with watering and cultural practices. I've even used hydretain on the main lawn.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Alright, hell strip completed earlier this afternoon. Didn't have any Slopemaster or compost left, so went with straight peat moss as cover. Not too worried about it. Decided on 100% TTTF and will hang onto the extra Mazama.

Right now we're getting the perfect renovation rain; light, small drops, passing quickly. Once this passes we should be in the clear for a week weather wise, but watering schedule will have to be on point. I was able to dial it in a bit further today and will change up the times and durations. Switching to:

8:00 AM - 15 mins
12:00 PM - 12 mins
3:00 PM - 10 mins
6:00 PM - 8 mins

A longer run in the morning to get base moisture down and into the soil. Wait a bit and then run slightly less to keep the moisture up through the hottest part of the day, then dial it back from there as the sun goes down. Unfortunately I won't be home to monitor tomorrow, but I feel confident in that plan.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Welp, knew it was too good to be true. Just dumped a half inch in 20 mins. Not the worst, but not ideal. Doesn't appear to be too much runoff though, which I'm guessing is due to the Slopemaster. I can see the peat is definitely washing out in areas, but it isnt running off into the sidewalks and street like I'd except. Guess the Slopemaster is doing its job! I'll assess in the morning and will likely spread some more peat and potentially a small amount of seed depending on what I see in the AM.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

From experience if you physically notice seed washed out throw more down.

I, along with others got caught up with maintaining the 2-3 lbs per K for KBG that slowed us down. Went into wait and watch to see what germs first.

I think @Zcape35 did it right and reseeded right after his washout.

See washout? Throw more seed ASAP - screw waiting!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@JerseyGreens thats exactly what I did! Went out with a flashlight and honestly it didn't look too bad. The Slopemaster stayed put and the peat washed into ripples, but nothing serious. I took a small amount of seed and threw it down in some of the washed out areas, but only threw down about 6-7 handfuls over the entire area. I then look a plastic rake and lightly raked the peat moss back into place as best I could.

Tomorrow I'll wake up early after it's had a chance to dry out a bit and run the roller over it lightly. May not even add water to it. Then I'll throw some more peat moss where it's needed and start the watering for the day. Overall not bad and I owe it to the Slopemaster for holding things in place.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

After assessing the damage in daylight, everything seems to be fine. Anywhere there was peat moss piled up, I raked it out a bit and spread it. I didn't see any seed on the sidewalks, in the street, or piled up anywhere throughout the lawn. Outside of the few handfuls I threw down last night, the only thing I did today was roll that seed in lightly and spread a fine layer of peat moss on some of the washed out areas. Wash out is a strong word honestly, it wasn't bad at all. Then gave the top layer a light watering to moisten the new peat moss and kept the schedule as-is starting at noon. I'll head home on break to check on the pups and gauge moisture just before the 3PM cycle.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Didn't have time to come home on break due to shore traffic, but I got home after the 6pm cycle had been finished for about a half hour and the soil was still moist, but no puddles or run off to speak of. Looking like this pattern should work for the foreseeable future. I did a hand watering of some areas and then ran a quick six minute run to cap the night at 8pm.

Tomorrow evening will be 72 hours after seed down, so not expecting any germination just yet over the weekend. If I had to guess, I would say we'll see first signs of germ in the TTTF area late Monday evening at the earliest, with the Mazama area showing on Wednesday evening.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

It can't be, can it? Would be shocked if this is the TTTF already just 72 hours after seed down. Also, peep the baby crabgrass in the background! Hopefully tenacity knocks it out.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

You'll wake up tomorrow or Monday and be shocked at what you see! I had nothing on Day 4 but a nice green fuzz on Day 5. Good luck!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

OnTheLawn said:


> It can't be, can it? Would be shocked if this is the TTTF already just 72 hours after seed down. Also, peep the baby crabgrass in the background! Hopefully tenacity knocks it out.


If you see more seedlings in that same area this morning then it's 100% TTTF.

Congratulations are in order!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@JerseyGreens after some searching this morning there are definitely areas that have germ! I looked for that one again, but can't confirm I found it because I couldn't find the baby crabgrass either. I'm sure the tenacity will take care of it, but I wouldn't think within 12 hours it would take it out to the point of not being able to locate it. There is definite signs of germination though in a few areas that have popped through.

I think I may have overdone it with the Slopemaster and peat moss in some spots, but not going to overthink it and fear it's too thick a covering. The grass will grow through it, just may take longer in some areas.

If these initial signs of germ are truly the TTTF beginning to jump, tomorrow morning should be a great indicator. What I noticed on the test plots was that the morning after the initial signs of germ saw major breakthrough, so we'll see.

The weather has been nearly perfect since seed down with the exception of heavy rain fall for a half hour on Thursday night. Since then it has been ideal with very little wind, night temps below 70°, and day temps in the mid-80s. The next few days should be about the same with a slight increase in temps, but nothing to worry about.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

My fellow lawn care nut neighbor told me I should put up a barrier to keep dogs off of it who walk by haha. I wasn't going to initially, but this gives me more peace of mind.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Test plot update:





It's more difficult to see in the pictures, but the fertilized plot is for sure more dense and thick and has had two mows, whereas the unfertilized plot has had only one mow that took not much off and is thinner.

To my eye, I could see it, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't biased. So, I did what any sensible lawn care addict would do and called his spouse over to discuss the grass. I asked her vaguely about the plot of grass and if she noticed anything about it. Immediately she pointed to the far right and said "this section looks thinner and not a thick as over there." She then pointed to the left section and said "this area looks thicker and more lush. It looks a lot better. What's the difference?"

She had no clue what was going on with these plots and was able to point out the difference immediately. Considering I just mowed this section a couple of days ago, I found that very impressive and a testament to the N-EXT products.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Not much to speak of from a germ standpoint as of now. There's definitely germ happening, but haven't seen the initial jump across the board yet. I'll be out with a flashlight tonight to grab some pics.

The Mazama has started to germ as well in a couple of places, but I expect that will take longer to catch as it's a very shady area.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Alrighty folks, the moment we've all been waiting for. Germ pics! This is now five full days after seed was down. First signs of germination were three days post seed down, but it took some time for this all to break through the layer of peat and Slopemaster.









Coverage seems pretty even as of now, but some areas are definitely taller than others and there are some areas with not much to speak of. I'll have a better idea tomorrow after another night of growth, but I don't think that rain that fell on night two did much by way of wash out. The areas that appear to be doing the best are the areas where water runs to, or collects easier. I think I may up it a notch on the watering times to get some areas a bit more. Maybe just a couple minutes longer.

Mazama area is not showing like this, but that's expected. I have some sprouts poking through here and there, but no coverage like this. I would expect that to come within the next two days or so.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Looking great!

On your way to a new lawn already!


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## ruxie88 (Dec 20, 2018)

:thumbup:


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Congrats! Send some daylight pics in the AM!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Thanks all! I will now have to start nailing down some post germ app dates. I'm considering yesterday Day 1 of germ, so today will be 1 DAG. Here's what apps I know I'll be making:

- 2nd Tenacity/meso blanket app
- Propiconizal (2-3 leaf stage)
- 9-0-1 GREENEstart (21 DAG, target 9/27)

I know my target date for the GREENEstart based on the seeding pack instructions. The prop spray app will be once I've noticed most of the grass hitting 2-3 leaf stage, which I had to guess would be two weeks from now. When should I look to get down my second blanket app of tenacity? I believe it's 30 days after seed down, correct? So I guess 10/2.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

I also need to decide on HOC for each section. Pete's TTTF likes to be maintained higher, but part of me wants to have it around 2". The reel mower maxes out at 2.75", which is within range genetically for TTTF. I may start it there and then gradually take it lower every 4-6 mows until I get to 2".

The Mazama is a different ball game. I'd like to go low with it, but changing the HOC on the Great States isn't exactly quick and easy and I'll be mowing quite often since I'm going manual reel until at least next fall. I'm going to mess with the Great States on Thursday and see how quickly the HOC can be changed on the fly.

There are two different height adjustment areas for fine tuning it. One sets the reel height on the chassis and the other adjusts the height of the reel further with the rear roller. I'll have to find a good median because the roller height adjustment is much faster than having to adjust the reel height in the middle. If I can get something like 2.5" TTTF and around 1" Mazama, I'm good with that.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Here's some morning pics:









Obviously some areas taking off faster than others. This is normal, so not a worry to me. When I shined the flashlight at night I could see little babies almost everywhere just barely poking through. I'm also noticing areas where there is no peat moss coverage, there isn't much germination to speak of. These could be small washouts, or just not enough moisture there. Again, such a small amount of this that I'm not worried.

You can also see a ground ivy plant that popped up. Normally they come out and are a deep green right away, but tenacity is having an effect on it. It's a very pale sickly green color. I'm waiting it out to see exactly what happens to it before plucking it, as there are about 5-6 others throughout the lawn that look the same. Our neighborhood is overrun with ivy and creeping Charlie.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Quick update. The Mazama has finally awoken!



Expecting to see nice coverage tonight with the flashlight. I am now considering today 1 DAG for the Mazama plot under the maple.

The TTTF main area is doing well. I'm battling the anxiety of "is this coverage normal? Do I need to drop more seed already? Am I losing my mind?" With some areas. For the most part I'm leaving it alone, but there were a couple of bare areas with no peat that had absolutely zero germination. I spread a small amount of seed there and covered in peat, so naturally we're slated for rain today and tomorrow. Anyways, here's some pics. First is yesterday, then today. Crazy what difference a day makes. Also shocked at how quickly the hell strip came up and wondering if it's the hydretain helping retain moisture. I planted that a day after.

Yesterday:


Today:


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## kay7711226 (Jun 24, 2020)

Chris LI said:


> If the Spectracide only has glyphosate as the Active Ingredient, then you can seed the day after seeding. Many of us have done it. I think they mention the 7-day waiting period as an extra precaution. I didn't notice it interfering with germination.


@Chris LI Can I ignore this regrading Spectracide "Treated areas may be reseeded three to four weeks after application." its been 2 weeks since and was waiting another week before overseeding


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@kay7711226 it all depends on the active ingredients and which Spectracide you're dealing with. Generally the label will give you a buffer, but if the label says 3-4 weeks, that'll be close to the actual waiting period. Which Spectracide are you referring to?


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## kay7711226 (Jun 24, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> @kay7711226 it all depends on the active ingredients and which Spectracide you're dealing with. Generally the label will give you a buffer, but if the label says 3-4 weeks, that'll be close to the actual waiting period. Which Spectracide are you referring to?


@OnTheLawn see the link below. 
https://www.spectracide.com/products/weed-and-grass-killers/lawn-weed-killers/spectracide-weed-stop-for-lawns-concentrate-ready-to-spray.aspx


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@kay7711226 ok for that I would definitely wait the three recommended weeks. The new seedlings won't be able survive the effectiveness of that like nature grass will.


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## kay7711226 (Jun 24, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> @kay7711226 ok for that I would definitely wait the three recommended weeks. The new seedlings won't be able survive the effectiveness of that like nature grass will.


Thanks for the confirmation! Btw good luck on the project, see you are getting some good germination. I'm helping my neighbor getting his lawn ready for some overseeding with Newsome trio mix TTTF, will checking see how those babies are springing up.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

OnTheLawn said:


> @kay7711226 ok for that I would definitely wait the three recommended weeks. The new seedlings won't be able survive the effectiveness of that like nature grass will.


@kay7711226
^+1
The link to the Spectracide product you listed is NOT a Roundup/Glyphosate (non-selective substitute). That will not kill everything. It is meant to kill broadleaf weeds, weed grasses and sedges. Yes, you will need to wait the time period listed on the label. If you are looking to reno or spot kill an area, look for a product with only glyphosate as the active ingredient. Don't purchase anything mentioning "extended control", "full season control", "ground clear", etc. with any other active ingredients (i.e. driveway crack weed killer). The extended control non-selective (kill all) herbicides will stop germination of any seeds for a period of time. The Spectracide Weed and Grass Killer is non-selective, but doesn't have glyphosate in it. To my understanding, it uses a different mode of action with different A.I.'s (Dicamba/Diquat/Fluazifop). I think it's more of a contact herbicide, but claims to kill the roots. Glyphosate is systemic and will travel through the root system to kill the plant contacted. Glyphosate takes a little longer to show the signs of working, but it starts working almost immediately, after it's rainfast.

Here is the Spectracide link:
https://www.spectracide.com/products/weed-and-grass-killers/weed-grass-killers/spectracide-weed-grass-killer-concentrate2.aspx

For glyphosate products (i.e. Round Up or generics), look for a 41% concentration of glyphosate with no other active ingredients.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@kay7711226 thank you much! So far so good. Good luck to you as well with your project and your neighbors! TTTF is definitely a hardy grass when it comes to heat stress, so I'm hoping it performs well here. Newsome is known for having great cultivars in their mixes so should be a win.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

6 DAG:









The night pictures tell a completely different story. I'll grab some tonight with the flashlight. The "bare areas" aren't really bare and should be just fine. I'll make the decision on more seed in about a week. The first tenacity app has so far done a fantastic job, so if I need to push back the second app it's all good.

Mazama hasn't moved a ton. The long rain fall last night definitely moved some seedlings, but nothing crazy. I think the lack of sunlight is keeping the Mazama from jumping, but I expected that.

Still working out HOC for each area.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Mazama is a still slow for me even the most mature ones. I believe that's it's genetic nature...painful to watch grow.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Gotta love the compact type KBG for low mowing but boy do they take their jolly old time coming up.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@JerseyGreens @synergy0852 painful is definitely the right word haha. I didn't do it any favors by covering it too heavily and planting in a shady area either! It'll get there.

I'm still bewildered by how well the hell strip is doing. I planted that a day later and it's blowing up way faster than the main lawn. I'm wondering if seed washed out during that first storm and made its way to the hell strip and stuck there.

The backyard project is looking better as well, but the immediate surprising 1" of rain that dropped in an hour after I got everything done back there really hurt it. Seed washed everywhere and I haven't thrown anymore out as I want to save it all for the front just in case. I may end up ordering a small bag of perennial rye just to get something back there that I can get up fast and keep low. The full backyard renovation may happen next year, but it's going to take some serious convincing. The dogs also own the backyard, so that will make things even more difficult.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

OnTheLawn said:


> @JerseyGreens @synergy0852 painful is definitely the right word haha. I didn't do it any favors by covering it too heavily and planting in a shady area either! It'll get there.
> 
> I'm still bewildered by how well the hell strip is doing. I planted that a day later and it's blowing up way faster than the main lawn. I'm wondering if seed washed out during that first storm and made its way to the hell strip and stuck there.
> 
> The backyard project is looking better as well, but the immediate surprising 1" of rain that dropped in an hour after I got everything done back there really hurt it. Seed washed everywhere and I haven't thrown anymore out as I want to save it all for the front just in case. I may end up ordering a small bag of perennial rye just to get something back there that I can get up fast and keep low. The full backyard renovation may happen next year, but it's going to take some serious convincing. The dogs also own the backyard, so that will make things even more difficult.


You are not allowed to bring up sissygrass this close to your seed down date. I nearly got slaughtered from saying that word last week!

My hell strip is crushing it too - ahah, and I think your theory is right so good seeds ended up there...frustrating.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@JerseyGreens hahahaha oh don't worry, it's not for the renovation, just the backyard.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

For anyone suffering from washouts this fall (there are many of us), I think the hell strips do well because they are relatively flat. Mine looks great too, comparatively speaking, to the rest of the front yard.

If you bring up sissy grass, you are watching too many Ryan Knorr videos. Although his videos are great and I thoroughly enjoy them, you have some high quality TTTF on hand that will germ almost as quick as PRG. Throw'er down.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@bf7 like I said to @JerseyGreens, if I did it, it would be for the back yard. I only have enough seed left for the front yard if I want to throw more seed down there, so I'm hanging onto it. For the backyard I need something that can get up quick and is traffic tolerant at lower heights, so was thinking a PRG.

For the front though, speaking of throwing more seed down... here are some 6:30 PM vs 7:45 PM flashlight pics:















VS.















@JerseyGreens @synergy0852 @g-man @bf7 I'm not nine days since seed down and 5-6 DAG. I wake up and look at it and think "throw more down in the washout problem areas" and then I get a flashlight on it and think "it's fine give it more time". What are your thoughts on when I should think about throwing more down in the washed out areas? Weather is looking incredibly perfect here for the next week at least, so would be a good time this weekend to throw some down and put some peat down. But part of me says to wait until after the weekend and give it all a chance to catch up to itself. Thoughts?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

TTTF is a different animal than KBG. It'll tiller and fill in to some extent, but it won't spread and fill in like KBG. If you have areas you feel aren't very dense I say pull the trigger and add more TTTF. If you had that coverage with KBG I'd say give it time. At the end of the day no matter how good your camera is we will never see what you're seeing with your eyes so it's very hard for me to make that call for you.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

^+1

It's ultimately your call.

I'll add that TTTF is very prone to fungus in our area due to the humid summers. You almost want to avoid it getting too dense if possible. You can always overseed in the Spring if you see bare spots.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

I agree with @synergy0852 since it's TTTF, I would throw a little down, especially if you have a favorable forecast. Maybe give it the weekend first just to see if the heavy rain results in a germination explosion. This happens to me after almost every downpour, although it's never an even spread.

If it was KBG, those flashlight pics would tell me you're good to go doing nothing.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Alright thanks all. Those were my thoughts too, just wanted to make sure I wasn't overthinking those things. With TTTF it will tiller and fill in, but it won't repair and spread so I do need to watch out for that. I was also considering throwing down the remaining Mazama I have in the front section to mix with the TTTF, but that would really throw off my timing with the second tenacity and fert apps as I won't be able to do it until Sunday.

I think for now I'm going to wait until Sunday and see how it's doing. I'll make a decision then about adding more seed as the weather is supposed to be nice for the next week or so.

And @JerseyGreens the fungus issue is real here, which is why I went with Pete's blend. Very good fungus resistance from these cultivars, especially to brown patch.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

So ultimately I decided after walking early this morning with the flashlight that I would see the trouble spots. There were some areas, especially in the runoff zones, where no germination was happening. I walked through as carefully as I could and put seed down on those areas and then just stepped on the seed to press it into the soil. I then covered those areas in peat moss as best I could, but it's not a true reno if you don't run out of peat moss!

I then went through and sprinkled some seed in the lighter germ areas. Not a ton. Not even sure how much will catch as I couldn't really afford to press into the soil in most places. Weather reports have us sitting pretty for the next 5-6 days so given that it's not all completely covered and the sun will be out, germ should happen quickly there. I debated putting out another app of starter fert at a lower rate, but I'll hold off.

I'll be pushing back the second tenacity app, propi app, and 9-0-1 app as well by a week or so.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

The Mazama is continuing to take its good old time. Being under a tree with as little sunlight as it get, again I'm not surprised, but it's crawling. I'm going to do some supplemental watering here at night to see what that does, maybe the tree is taking more than I'm realizing. The soil never dries out, but I also didn't do this stuff any favors by burying it too much I think.







Main lawn is filling in well. I'm seeing some plants at 2-leaf stage now. I'm figuring on 9/24 I'll spray propi over this area, and hopefully by that point the Mazama section will be close enough that I can hit it as well. Timeline should look as follows:

9/24: Propiconazole
10/4: 9-0-1 GREENEStart and RGS
10/22: 2nd blanket Tenacity app
10/25: 16-0-1 GREENEpunch and RGS


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Mazama continues to fill in much nicer. Stress level is going down there a bit.



Main lawn is really looking like a lawn. Bare seeded spots got another dash of peat moss this morning and tonight.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Flashlight vs no flashlight

TTTF:







Mazama:







Angles are important! These thinner areas really look bare until you get down there with the right lighting and at the right angle. Then you can see what's really there. Those areas do have some germ from the seed I threw down, but not worried about overcrowding just yet. With TTTF it's an easy thin out if need be. Temps have cooled off dramatically and humidity is all but gone, so hopefully it stays this way and the threat of fungus is gone for now.

Also, not sure what this is, but whatever it is, tenacity did not like it!





The only things I've seen pop up on the main lawn were some ground ivy that got to about 2" tall and some very little baby crabgrass plants that didn't make it past germ. The ground ivy went a milky white and has since disappeared, the crabgrass has not shown up or gotten past poking its head out of the ground. The follow up app is of utter importance though. Matt Martin's latest trigger video on tenacity is well worth the watch and has a lot of great information regarding mesotrione, so highly recommend getting over to this channel and watching it.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

***Took a much needed break from the lawn today. For the first time in a long time, I didn't really have anything that I NEEDED to do on the reno. Felt kind of weird. I had these moments of "should I do this?" "Should I move this application up?" "Should I maybe mow the hell strip?" "Should I do something just for the sake of doing something?"

I held off. I didn't need to do anything, so I didn't and it felt good. I took some time to myself today (Thursday is my day off by myself while the wife is at work), listened to some hockey podcasts, and cleaned the garage. It needed it. With so much going on, so many tools being used... it got to be a wreck. Trying to convince the better half to let me build a shed in the backyard. I told her, "don't think of it as my building a shed, think of it as you being able to park in the garage."





***ok so I may have done just a couple of things. I mowed a patch of grass I share with my neighbor. Neither of us really know where the property line is because it's so overgrown with ivies that we just sort of both take care of it. Also mowed the test plot, which got a dose of 9-0-1 GREENEstart too this morning. I took the reel to em today and settled on my TTTF height of 2.5", which will have the Mazama section at 1.25". I also raked the reno of the leaves that have been falling from the maple and the hickory.


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## kay7711226 (Jun 24, 2020)

Haha i know the feeling..... I'm here chasing squirrels and picking up acorns,..... so bored I decided to do the neighbors lawn! Enjoy the morning walks around the lawn with cup of Joe.


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

It was the same for me, once the seed was down I had nothing else to do. That's why I did the back yard overseed. Once that was done I got caught up on some office work!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@kay7711226 & @Zcape35 it really is odd. You go from 100 MPH to 25 MPH very quickly! I overseeded the backyard a couple of weeks ago, which got washed out - literally immediately after getting peat moss down on bare areas and turning the sprinklers on - by a pop-up rain shower. I went back over it with some Lesco Double Eagle (PRG) at a pretty heavy dose to get something going quick before the cooler temps hit though. This got me thinking and the time off from the reno work has been nice to give some thought and prep for next year.

My plan for next year is to potentially renovate the backyard, but with two very active pups who love to be outside it'll be difficult to make happen. So, my thought is to get some PRG down now and start mowing low to see how it does. Ideally I'd like to go low with a very traffic tolerant grass and I'm leaning towards a full sissy grass backyard (well, half... my backyard is sort of split with one section receiving 6 hours sun and the back portion receiving less than 2 with a west-facing house and tree coverage). Anyways, if I can do a blend that is tolerant to traffic and can go low, I'm gonna go for it. Going to use this time before the next round of apps and first mow to start hashing that out.

Anyways, I've also decided that my next round of apps will be based on the germ of the initial seed down. My focus has gotten away from the majority and more towards the minority, which I feel isn't the best course of action. So, I'll be moving those apps back to their original date, especially since we're due for cooler than normal temps. Fall seems to have gotten here very early!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Mazama continues to charge. I guess maybe it's more of a slow march.

Tuesday 9/15:



Friday 9/18:



Main lawn continues to fill in. The overseed is in full germ mode now, so those thin spots should fill in nicely within a week. There are some definite areas I'll have to thin out a bit due to wash out.





Here is the shared patch I mowed yesterday. This area is about every grass type you can think of and has some clover in it. I decided not to reno this part as it's shared and I actually kind of like the wildness to it. It fits with the landscape behind it. It's gotten the 16-21-2 GreenePOP when I overseeded with the TTTF and there was a patch on the side next to the driveway that I had to seed because the topsoil I had delivered covered it for a couple of weeks. Grew in very well and fast there and had clippings come off at 2.5":


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

So I'm settled into using the seeding pack apps for the TTTF lawn, but there is a part of me wondering if I should go with a more spoon feeding type of approach with AMS on the Mazama plot since it's KBG. If I stick to the schedule for the seeding pack, the next feeding will be 9/27 with the 9-0-1 GreeneSTART on the TTTF, and then a few days later on the Mazama. I was thinking about moving it up to early next week with a granular AMS.

@JerseyGreens @synergy0852 @shadowlawnjutsu
Any thoughts on this? If you think I should opt for the AMS route, any recommendations on what to go with?


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

OnTheLawn said:


> So I'm settled into using the seeding pack apps for the TTTF lawn, but there is a part of me wondering if I should go with a more spoon feeding type of approach with AMS on the Mazama plot since it's KBG. If I stick to the schedule for the seeding pack, the next feeding will be 9/27 with the 9-0-1 GreeneSTART on the TTTF, and then a few days later on the Mazama. I was thinking about moving it up to early next week with a granular AMS.
> 
> @JerseyGreens @synergy0852 @shadowlawnjutsu
> Any thoughts on this? If you think I should opt for the AMS route, any recommendations on what to go with?


From the many successful journals I've read - spoonfeeding usually gets the best results. The trend is moving to liquid N but still just products that have N - not saying that GreenSTART will do any harm or anything but safer to keep it simple at this point.

I do think the goalposts are "moving" with what to spoonfeed with: liquid, CX GRN, etc etc. - it's ultimately your call.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

I personally like the AMS, I know everything I'm getting out of it. I waited until at least some of it came out of pout to apply though.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I put down down granular AMS yesterday. My SO ordered it from the MD location.

Was a SGN 100 prill size. Went down well.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Actually now that I'm thinking about, I'm wondering if urea would be a better option. My pH was on the lower side and the AMS may take it down even further.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

OnTheLawn said:


> Actually now that I'm thinking about, I'm wondering if urea would be a better option. My pH was on the lower side and the AMS may take it down even further.


That works too. Urea tends to have a larger prill size and you throw down a lot less product. Realized that's why folks try to use AMS. Both work though!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Found this on amazon. I need such a small amount that I don't want to go and buy a 25-50lb bag.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Urea will store @OnTheLawn. To each their own, but I can get a 50 lb. bag for less than that.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

synergy0852 said:


> Urea will store @OnTheLawn. To each their own, but I can get a 50 lb. bag for less than that.


Where do I do this?! Site One?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

I go to a co-op about 20 minutes away. Try searching google for co-op or elevator. Site One tends to be a little pricey, but if there isn't another option nearby I still think it'd be cheaper than the Amazon option.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

OnTheLawn said:


> synergy0852 said:
> 
> 
> > Urea will store @OnTheLawn. To each their own, but I can get a 50 lb. bag for less than that.
> ...


Found mine at Belle Mead Co op. Call your local SiteOne and ask if they have 21-0-0 AMS. Solugreen on the label. You will be a lot happier. My guy ordered it from MD and it was at his store in 4 days.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

I also forgot to mention check out the NJ hometown discussion I bet this has been discussed before in that thread.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> So I'm settled into using the seeding pack apps for the TTTF lawn, but there is a part of me wondering if I should go with a more spoon feeding type of approach with AMS on the Mazama plot since it's KBG. If I stick to the schedule for the seeding pack, the next feeding will be 9/27 with the 9-0-1 GreeneSTART on the TTTF, and then a few days later on the Mazama. I was thinking about moving it up to early next week with a granular AMS.
> 
> @JerseyGreens @synergy0852 @shadowlawnjutsu
> Any thoughts on this? If you think I should opt for the AMS route, any recommendations on what to go with?


I have no experience with the seeding pack. Is this https://thelawncarenut.com/products/n-ext-seeding-over-seeding-pack the seeding pack you're pertaining to? I already did a couple of spoon feeding using the left over scott's starter fert. Starting tomorrow, I'll spoonfeed with urea and will cycle it weekly with AMS. I'll keep doing it until the end of the fall.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@shadowlawnjutsu yup that's it. The second app for the timeline is 9-0-1 GreeneStart at 21 DAG. That fert is 6% urea, 3% ammonia, and 50% is slow release. I could spoon feed it on the KBG at half the normal rate I guess? The second full app is 12oz/m on the plan. I apply via ortho hose end and then water in immediately so not worried about foliar intake.

The search is proving difficult for a supplier near me. Site One seems to be the only option. If I go with granular urea that's 46-0-0 it'll be like... 1.6 oz over the area. Can't imagine how I'll be able to spread that evenly. If I can get to Site One on break I'll see what they have.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I wanted to throw down CX Start and CX GRN so bad as my first app but was told just do straight quick release N.

That was less than 24 hours ago and I can tell you right now that my lawn looks different already in those problem areas.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

I think I'm going to look for AMS. The amount of sulfur shouldn't move pH much, and I can always throw down a small amount fast acting like if need be to counter it.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

OnTheLawn said:


> I think I'm going to look for AMS. The amount of sulfur shouldn't move pH much, and I can always throw down a small amount fast acting like if need be to counter it.


It's hard to find so when I got SiteOne to order it for me I was pumped.

With the Lbs of product being thrown down the needle shouldn't move a ton with pH.


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## jperm47 (Jul 29, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> synergy0852 said:
> 
> 
> > Urea will store @OnTheLawn. To each their own, but I can get a 50 lb. bag for less than that.
> ...


SiteOne should carry Urea 46-0-0. That's where I got mine from


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Wasn't able to get there. With their hours it's pretty tough with my schedule. There's a Hi-Yield 21-0-0 on DoMyOwn that I could get for $25 for 20 lbs. Might be doable.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

AMS ordered. Will be here on Sunday. Gonna put it down on Wednesday morning 9/23 for the Mazama. 9-0-1 will go down on the TTTF on 9/27.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Almost ready for their first mow. They grow up so fast!





The washed out reseeded areas are full blown germ now, so should start taking off and filling in within a couple of days. I'm going to hold off on the propi app and do it on Thursday to give some of the newbies a chance to catch up and also allow for some more leaf stage growth to happen. Propi is best applied at 2-3 leaf stage and most of what I'm seeing is at 2. Not much at 3 yet. So propi for the TTTF and AMS for the Mazama on Thursday. Target date for first mow is next Sunday at 2.75" and then after a few mows I'll take it down to 2.5" and then mayyyyyy take it down to 2" once it gets rolling.



The Mazama is getting there. The AMS this coming week will help for sure, but the stand of grass is pretty strong and I can tell the roots are deep. I can tug on it with some effort and nothing comes up. Not a ton going on above the surface, but a lot below.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Anyone have any clue what these are? I saw these tube like shoots outpacing the grass by a bit a couple of days ago and then today they seemed to pop out about 3" above the grass. Took a screwdriver out to dig em up and found these onion like bulb roots at the bottom around 3" below the soil. They were concentrated to one small 9 sq ft section in the corner. Very odd.





Sunlight gave the lawn a nice look tonight. Took some shots:


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## dwaugh (Aug 25, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> Anyone have any clue what these are? I saw these tube like shoots outpacing the grass by a bit a couple of days ago and then today they seemed to pop out about 3" above the grass. Took a screwdriver out to dig em up and found these onion like bulb roots at the bottom around 3" below the soil. They were concentrated to one small 9 sq ft section in the corner. Very odd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know what they are, but I have them in my yard in a 3X5 area of my yard. I've only seen them in spring though. Hopefully someone will know what they are.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Wild Onion? Maybe wild garlic?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

They for sure smell like onion. I don't remember these coming up before the renovation, but the bulbs were fairly deep. So random. Wild onion seems right after some googling.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> Anyone have any clue what these are? I saw these tube like shoots outpacing the grass by a bit a couple of days ago and then today they seemed to pop out about 3" above the grass. Took a screwdriver out to dig em up and found these onion like bulb roots at the bottom around 3" below the soil. They were concentrated to one small 9 sq ft section in the corner. Very odd.
> 
> 
> 
> Sunlight gave the lawn a nice look tonight. Took some shots:


Are those spring onions?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

They're definitely wild onions, just not exactly sure which type. My guess is wild chives. The cooler temps must have kick started them as they're not usually booming like this until closer to winter. On the walk this morning with the pups I noticed them in other yards around the neighborhood.

The weed pressure in our surrounding area is next level. We have quite literally everything you can think of in droves due to all of the trees and heavily shaded areas. Grass struggles in most places and grassy and broadleaf weeds take over. Here's a good example:



Common wild Bermuda, ground ivy, creeping Charlie, clover... it gets nasty here.


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## Burkesw (Jul 19, 2019)

The renovation is coming along great! Glad the Mazama is coming along, slowly and surely... :thumbup:

I was hoping to get a small test section going with the mazama this year but couldn't convince my other half that it was a great idea. Probably because I just renovated it last year...

Looking forward to seeing your progress!


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## dleonard11122 (Jun 24, 2020)

Just read through your entire journal. What a great read and congratulations with what looks like a very successful reno thus far. I'm also I. South Jersey and growing TTTF as well. It's nice to know that there are other fescue friends out there and not everyone has gone the way of kbg.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@Burkesw & @dleonard11122 thank you both very much for the kind words!

The Mazama is for sure coming along sssslllloooowwwllllyyyy but surely. It'll get there. I planted it in a very challenging area, so well so how it holds up!

And yes, TTTF for the win here where we're at. It's certainly doable to go full KBG in NJ, but the maintenance is much higher watering and fertilization wise. I may mix in some KBG next fall though for its spreading/repairing capability.


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## dleonard11122 (Jun 24, 2020)

I am certainly jealous of those with KBG for the spreading and self repairing. This is year 2 for me of overseeding TTTF and if I'm being honestly I'm not sure how long I'll want to keep it up. I envision at some point renovating my front lawn to KBG since it's smaller and has better irrigation coverage. For the time being though, TTTF is relatively easy to grow and produces great results. If you do decide to overseed KBG I'll be sure to keep track of your progress. I've heard it can be very difficult to get it to grow into already established turf.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

All is well here except for one thing, which seems to be growth. The cooler temps seem to have shocked the system of the grass babies and it appears they're in need of some food. I was going to wait until Sunday to put the 9-0-1 on the TTTF, but I'm moving it up to tomorrow. We're slated for potential rain on Sunday anyway, so want to get it down prior to that and into the soil before a chance of runoff. I could wait until after Sunday, but with the current weather trends and way the grass has slowed its growth, don't want to.

The 9-0-1 is 6% Urea and 3% ammonia, 50% of which is slow release. Any harm in spiking it with some 21-0-0 AMS? I could also try and get to a Site One to pickup some 46-0-0 if they have it, but I won't do either of these unless someone advises me to do it.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

looking good and you definitely did not get hit by any of the washouts us earlier guys did.

Whatever you do with the N - just make sure it doesn't exceed 0.25#'s per application.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@JerseyGreens yea that rain fall we had the second night after seed down washed some, but not much. Gotta hand it to the Slopemaster for holding it all together.

Plan of action tomorrow will be an app of propiconazole over everything, followed by an app of AMS at 0.25#/m on the Mazama, followed by the app of 9-0-1 GreeneStart on the TTTF. If I do add any AMS to the 9-0-1, it'll be a very light amount. Just a little kick to get some more fast release in there. I'll have to find a calculator to see how much N is going down with the liquid 9-0-1 per M.


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## mfran615 (Sep 2, 2020)

I'm about 10 DAG and still have some white areas. I've read this is from Tenacity or low N. Any ideas? Otherwise it's going pretty well.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@mfran615 just hopped back to your reno journal and looked at the pics. That looks like tenacity bleaching to me. Those areas started out with pink germination right?

Looks to me like the nozzle output swath on your sprayer wasn't uniform and those areas got a heavier dose. What kind of sprayer did you use and what nozzle?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Ok, I believe my calculations are correct.

9-0-1 GreeneStart is labeled at 10.1 lbs in the gallon. That means 0.909 lbs of nitrogen are in it. Therefore, there's 0.0071 lbs N/ oz. (0.909/128oz). If I then apply 12 oz/m per the seeding pack, I'll be applying a total of 0.085 lbs N/1000. That leaves me with 0.165 lbs of AMS to get down. At 21-0-0 that means I'll be at 0.80 lbs/1000 ish.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

FIRST MOW!

Felt good to get out there with the Great States on the TTTF. Mazama isn't close yet to a mow, but getting there slowly.













Today was also an application day after mowing.

Mazama:
- 0.25 lb N/M 21-0-0 AMS
- 6 oz/M 9-0-1 GreeneStart
- 1.5ox/M RGS
- 1oz/M Propiconazole

TTTF:
- 0.165 lb N/M 21-0-0 AMS
- 12 oz/M 9-0-1 GreeneStart
- 3 oz/M RGS
- 1oz /M Propiconazole


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## Pezking7p (May 23, 2020)

Looks great. And you're right at 18 DAG on the TTTF right? Hopefully the mazama picks up the pace after the fert app.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@Pezking7p Thank you! And yup, 18 DAG. I went slightly earlier than planned on the TTTF fert apps due to weather, which funny enough have now cleared up, but that's fine.

The pictures of the Mazama don't really do it justice. Looks more bare than it actually is. I'll try and get some night pics with the flashlight tonight.


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## Pezking7p (May 23, 2020)

I put down about 0.5 lb/M of N in the form of Milo about 14 DAG. The grass loved it (I overseeded with GCI TTTF). Not quite the same as a reno, though, but I think your grass will love it.


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## estcstm3 (Sep 3, 2019)

can you put Propiconazole anytime before germination and then when it hits 3 leaf stage? I just renovated with TTTF but didnt get tenancity or my prop down (my sprayer had different residuals in it and didnt want to taint my work.....oh well). I have alot of moisture so im interested in how you approached the Prop fungus control during seeding.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@estcstm3 there are a bunch of different ways to do it. What seems to be the standard operation is azoxystrobin at seed down, followed prop at 2-3 leaf stage.

Two modes of action going and overlapping, plus the prop is supposed to benefit new grass as it's establishing and help with root development and top growth. If you did a double app of prop, I would just wait four weeks between apps at the preventative rate.

Propi has a growth inhibiting MOA, so my guess is that it holds up top growth for a bit and allows the plant to put more energy into root development and then that increased root development rebounds into more top growth. Can't locate a study on this and even Matt Martin didn't have a ton of info on it, but that was his assumption.

Anyways, my disease control was azoxy at seed down and then propi at 2-3 leaf stage. Now that I'm beyond the humid and warm temps/nights in my area, should be in the clear. The propi was almost more for the benefits for new seedlings than it was for disease control haha. We'll see if that holds true, but according to the label it should help.


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## estcstm3 (Sep 3, 2019)

awesome thanks. Since i havent put anything down and my seeds havent germinated yet, ill just be patient. Thanks for the good info. So many KBG reno's its nice to read about another TTTF.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Yea if your seed hasn't germinated yet I'd just wait. Unless you wanted to grab some azoxy (Scott's Disease Ex) and throw it down now, but if your temps are good and humidity is low then I wouldn't worry too much. The azoxy will give you about 21-28 days of protection, but if the conditions aren't there for disease, don't worry about it.

Now that being said, if you're looking at forecasts with highs at night above 70°, rain, and high humidity for an extended period of time, you may want to rethink that haha.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> FIRST MOW!
> 
> Felt good to get out there with the Great States on the TTTF. Mazama isn't close yet to a mow, but getting there slowly.
> 
> ...


Nice stripes! What height did you use on the Great States?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@bf7 i was actually surprised by those stripes! We'll see how wel it does once the grass grows up a bit, but I'll take the stripes for now.

According to the chart, I was at the B1-2 1/4" setting. I could have sworn when I first measured that setting it was at 2 1/2", so first mow was 1/4" lower than I initially wanted to go haha. Oh well! Not a huge deal and the little extra stress may do it some good.

I think my happy medium is going to be mowing it on A2 (2 1/2") for the TTTF and A5 (1 1/2") for the Mazama. I'd like to go lower with the Mazama, but it'll be too much of a hassle to change the height of the wheels every time I mow along with the height of the roller.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Agreed! They could have made it a little easier to adjust. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great little mower for renos, but sheesh, there should be a way without taking half the machine apart, guessing haphazardly, and then measuring. Fortunately I'm ok with anything between 1.5-2 so there's some leeway.

I'm sure the GCI will have top notch stripes when mature regardless of the mower.


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## ricwilli (Feb 18, 2019)

OnTheLawn said:


> @estcstm3 there are a bunch of different ways to do it. What seems to be the standard operation is azoxystrobin at seed down, followed prop at 2-3 leaf stage.
> 
> Two modes of action going and overlapping, plus the prop is supposed to benefit new grass as it's establishing and help with root development and top growth. If you did a double app of prop, I would just wait four weeks between apps at the preventative rate.
> 
> ...


Lawn is looking great. Wish I had put down some Azoxy on seed day. I'm paying for it now.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@ricwilli just took in your journal and it's definitely going to recover. No worries there at all. With propi down and doing it's thing just keep an eye as you're spraying fert and hopefully the yellowing grows out.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Pulled up to house tonight and for the first time the Mazama plot didn't look like nothing. Saw a nice green fuzz covering as the headlights shined across it.







Breathing a huge sigh of relief haha. There was a few days where I really didn't think it was going to wake up enough before first frost due to the colder temps coming early. The last two days have warmed up and I backed off the watering a bit. That in combo with the kick in the pants of AMS and 9-0-1 did the trick. World of a difference in just a few days.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Put another mow on the TTTF today. 2 1/2" with the Great States is where I've settled and will be mowing at for the foreseeable future.





Have seen a nice change in color and density since the app of AMS and 9-0-1.

Friday 9/25 (one day post N app):



Sunday 9/27 (three days post N app)


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## kay7711226 (Jun 24, 2020)

KBG 1 another Lawn guy 0. Haha glad you finally got over the KBG beating, we all been there. Keep feeding and mowing!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Mazama got hit decently hard by that rain last night. At this point I don't think I'll be throwing anymore seed down and will just let it ride until spring, so we'll see what happens. The pictures make it look worse than it is, as a lot of young grass is just laying down. The rain was extremely heavy for a while and really knocked this stuff down. Clear skies and sun the next couple of days should hopefully perk things back up.


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## Pezking7p (May 23, 2020)

You can tell where the mazama got washed out for sure.

BUT, as you said the bare areas aren't really bare. The little seedlings should fill in nicely. I think you've made the right choice to let it ride.


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## mfran615 (Sep 2, 2020)

@OnTheLawn what is your plan for seeding the thin spots? Wait til spring?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

mfran615 said:


> @OnTheLawn what is your plan for seeding the thin spots? Wait til spring?


For the TTTF, probably nothing until next fall. Going to let it ride until then and go with a pre-em program to control weeds in the thinner spots if there are any.

For the Mazama, I'm weighing my options. More than likely I'm going to grow plugs in small planters and then reassess in spring how things look. I'll start the plugs once temps warm up in late winter/early spring and then plant the plugs when soil temps warm up. This way I can run a pre-em and then also plug it and fill it in come spring.


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## mfran615 (Sep 2, 2020)

My grass doesn't seem to be growing at all. Hopefully roots are still growing but not much going on. I threw down AMS a few days ago and no response. I expected it to be growing. Hoping I'm not screwed.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

The cooler temps will do that. It's all good though don't fret. The grass takes quite a while to reach maturity and actually look like grass. As long as the root system is established and doing what it needs to do, the top will come along. Just keep spoon feeding it and nudging it along. If you need to step up to 0.2 lbs N per week instead of 0.25 lbs N bi-weekly for the next few weeks, I say go for it. You're in OH, so going to face cooler temps quicker. N drives the bus for all your other nutrient uptake, so as long as you don't absolutely pound it, the grass is going to get what it needs. Cooler temps will eventually make the grass start storing energy in the root zone for the crown and stop doing much of anything top growth wise, so a slow down should be expected.

Just don't freak out and blitz it with like a pound of N at one time. Granted, this is TTTF and not KBG, so a bit of a different beast. KBG prefers a lighter dose, especially the newer elite cultivars, so light spoon feeding that's going on in a lot of other renos is what you're seeing. With the TTTF you can up that and push it a little harder.


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## mfran615 (Sep 2, 2020)

Sounds good. I'll keep feeding weekly. How often should I water now?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

At this point I'd be once a day depending on weather. Now is the time to start going longer, less frequently. Hit it once mid morning and let it dry out a bit and monitor daily.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Mazama is looking better. Filling in more and recovering from that crazy rain. Hit it with 0-0-2 MicroGreene, a shot of AMS, and a splash of 16-21-2 GreenePop. One of my fears was that the heavy rain we got on night two would have washed out the immediately available phos. Probably not, but I figured let's just hit it lightly with some extra and see what happens. I did full rate of MG and half rates of AMS and GP.





Did roughly the same on the TTTF, but went slightly heavier on the N. The color is evening out now with the reseed catching up to the original seed.


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## ricwilli (Feb 18, 2019)

OnTheLawn said:


> The cooler temps will do that. It's all good though don't fret. The grass takes quite a while to reach maturity and actually look like grass. As long as the root system is established and doing what it needs to do, the top will come along. Just keep spoon feeding it and nudging it along. If you need to step up to 0.2 lbs N per week instead of 0.25 lbs N bi-weekly for the next few weeks, I say go for it. You're in OH, so going to face cooler temps quicker. N drives the bus for all your other nutrient uptake, so as long as you don't absolutely pound it, the grass is going to get what it needs. Cooler temps will eventually make the grass start storing energy in the root zone for the crown and stop doing much of anything top growth wise, so a slow down should be expected.
> 
> Just don't freak out and blitz it with like a pound of N at one time. Granted, this is TTTF and not KBG, so a bit of a different beast. KBG prefers a lighter dose, especially the newer elite cultivars, so light spoon feeding that's going on in a lot of other renos is what you're seeing. With the TTTF you can up that and push it a little harder.


This is good info. I was wondering why my lawn wasn't growing much. It's gotten colder by me .


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@ricwilli also keep in mind the propiconazole you applied has growth regulatory effects. At the preventative rate it's not as severe, not close to a true growth regulator, but it will slow down top growth. The basic premise is that the curative rate 1) prevents disease and 2) slows down top growth so the plant can really work on building a more robust, dense root system. Then once the regulatory effects wear off it'll snap out of it and hopefully have a whole lot of nutrient availability to move through the plant and push top growth. At least that's the best guess Matt Martin had for propi's use in a reno and how it affects the plant. Hasn't been any real studies on it that I can find.


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## ricwilli (Feb 18, 2019)

OnTheLawn said:


> @ricwilli also keep in mind the propiconazole you applied has growth regulatory effects. At the preventative rate it's not as severe, not close to a true growth regulator, but it will slow down top growth. The basic premise is that the curative rate 1) prevents disease and 2) slows down top growth so the plant can really work on building a more robust, dense root system. Then once the regulatory effects wear off it'll snap out of it and hopefully have a whole lot of nutrient availability to move through the plant and push top growth. At least that's the best guess Matt Martin had for propi's use in a reno and how it affects the plant. Hasn't been any real studies on it that I can find.


Thank you for this explanation. It makes sense now.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Crazy how much damage rain can do so long after germination. You really need to have decent weather conditions for a month+ after seed with KBG to avoid stressing out. Glad to see it's recovering.

Mazama looks great. I think it will be rocking in the spring. Can see green in all the "bare" patches. I love comparing the Mazama progress against the TTTF, although it's not the least bit fair.

Ps are you using a grass catcher on the reel?


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

I'm seeing tons of progress there, it looks really great. It'll be fun to see how much it fills in between now and Mid April.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@bf7 it is quite funny to see the difference. Anyone who walks by while I'm out compliments the TTTF and then looks at the Mazama and is like, "what's going on over there?" And then I get to explain how KBG is a totally different beast and blah blah blah and it's great fun. Wasn't fair at all though. Gave it less than 3 hours of sun a day and have it competing with a Japanese maple for water lol.

And no, not using a grass catcher on the reel. I'm mowing every 3 days or so, although it has slowed recently due to the prop app, so not a ton is coming off each time. I do end up taking some of the clippings up though because of the leaves that are falling now.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Zcape35 said:


> I'm seeing tons of progress there, it looks really great. It'll be fun to see how much it fills in between now and Mid April.


Thank you much! I'm extremely excited for spring haha. Although the Mazama plot has really taken off the last week or so and the weather for the next week at least is perfect.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> @bf7 it is quite funny to see the difference. Anyone who walks by while I'm out compliments the TTTF and then looks at the Mazama and is like, "what's going on over there?" And then I get to explain how KBG is a totally different beast and blah blah blah and it's great fun. Wasn't fair at all though. Gave it less than 3 hours of sun a day and have it competing with a Japanese maple for water lol.
> 
> And no, not using a grass catcher on the reel. I'm mowing every 3 days or so, although it has slowed recently due to the prop app, so not a ton is coming off each time. I do end up taking some of the clippings up though because of the leaves that are falling now.


Haha! I was getting the "what's going on" for my entire yard until about a week ago. Now the compliments are rolling in. The patience is so rewarding.

Reason I asked about the grass catcher - yesterday I mowed down to 1.25" and was upset with the amount of clippings that came off when I mulched. I had mowed at 1.5" 2 days prior so wasn't expecting that much. I don't like how they turn yellow. I ordered a catcher for next time.

I'm delaying my next propi app as long as I can to push more growth. We've had a cold week but it's supposed to warm up again soon.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Another mow today on the TTTF. It's looking good, but there are certain areas that are just not growing. My guess is the propi app along with the cooler temps (especially the nights in the 40s) is the cause. The grass looks healthy though, so that's all I'm worried about. You can see in the pictures it's not striping as much, which is the grass growing stronger and standing back up after the roller goes over it. I'm all for that! What I can tell though is that the areas that aren't growing as much now are the areas that got reseeded. They got a later start, so not surprised they're lagging a bit. Not worried though.

9/24:




10/5:




The Mazama continues to rebound very well from the rain storm and I'm very pleased with the progress it's making. Also got its second mow, but only a few thicker areas in the corners are actually having clippings come off, as well as some random blades here and there. It's coming along though!

9/20:


9/28:


9/30: (post rain storm)


10/3:


10/5:


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

That Mazama is looking right on course this many days again.

It's stressful growing KBG but rewarding once you see it this many days into the reno.

Congrats on the success!


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## mfran615 (Sep 2, 2020)

@OnTheLawn looking great. When do you expect to wrap up your season with N applications? You may have said this somewhere, but are you putting down a pre-M soon or wait until spring?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Finding this funny... the washout areas are really showing right now through color and growth. I probably should have delayed the propi app a week or so to avoid this, but at the end of the day it'll be fine.

Here is the area that got hit majorly right after seed down and again not long after germination:






I then reseeded that area heavily:




This is it starting to grow in a bit, but you can still see the bottom right corner is much thinner than the rest of the lawn:


Today this is what it looks like:






Certainly not the end of the world and I am very pleased with how much progress has been made the last couple of weeks. Once the growth regulatory effects of the propi wear off, it should take off and that corner will catch up.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

mfran615 said:


> @OnTheLawn looking great. When do you expect to wrap up your season with N applications? You may have said this somewhere, but are you putting down a pre-M soon or wait until spring?


Thanks! As far as N apps go, I'm doing weekly-ish spoon feeding until last week of October. The next few weeks will be light doses of 0.2 N/M, with an 8-1-8 app going down tomorrow to get a dose of K in before the temps cool off for good. Between 10/15-10/18 I'll get down another app of AMS. Week of Halloween will be an app of 18-0-1 GreenePunch (Sunday 10/25) and 6-0-0 GreeneEffect (Thursday 10/29). After Halloween I'll make one more app in mid-November with a heavier dose of 18-0-1 and call it good.

As far as weed control apps, I'll be putting down a second blanket app of tenacity next week. 11/8 will be my prodiamine app (more than likely). Weather will play a role in these apps, so we'll what happens over the next few weeks.


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## dleonard11122 (Jun 24, 2020)

Wow the TTTF really seems to be thickening up and filling in. It's looking great!

I've got a question about the planned mid-November Prodiamine app. I just got down my 2nd Tenacity app, and so I'll be looking at Nov 12th for 60 DAG if I wanted to do a Prodiamine app. Does anything actually germinate that late into the season though? And if it did, wouldn't the incoming frosts and winter kill it?


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## mfran615 (Sep 2, 2020)

dleonard11122 said:


> Wow the TTTF really seems to be thickening up and filling in. It's looking great!
> 
> I've got a question about the planned mid-November Prodiamine app. I just got down my 2nd Tenacity app, and so I'll be looking at Nov 12th for 60 DAG if I wanted to do a Prodiamine app. Does anything actually germinate that late into the season though? And if it did, wouldn't the incoming frosts and winter kill it?


@OnTheLawn this is what I came here to ask as well. If a second tenacity app at 45 DAG Applied late October lasts until November, why not wait until spring to throw down prodiamine?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@mfran615 @dleonard11122 to be honest, it's more of a safety blanket. Tenacity does have good pre emergent qualities, but this app is more of a blanket to get anything that has come up, as well as provide some pre emergent control until I hit the 60 day mark.


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## dleonard11122 (Jun 24, 2020)

Sorry, I don't think I was clear. I understand the Tenacity app. I wondering about why the need for a mid November Prodiamine app. What weeds are we trying to prevent at that point?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

dleonard11122 said:


> Sorry, I don't think I was clear. I understand the Tenacity app. I wondering about why the need for a mid November Prodiamine app. What weeds are we trying to prevent at that point?


Oh duh haha, you were clear, I just totally forgot to answer that haha.

So last year we had a very mild winter. Zero snow and temps stayed fairly warm with few days below freezing. It's more so just in case we have milder temps again and while generally speaking most weeds and grasses won't be able to germinate and I'm not too worried about it, it's just a precautionary measure as weird things can happen. I just figure it can't hurt.


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## kay7711226 (Jun 24, 2020)

something to show my neighbor, the potential of TTTF - Looking good man


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## mfran615 (Sep 2, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> @mfran615 @dleonard11122 to be honest, it's more of a safety blanket. Tenacity does have good pre emergent qualities, but this app is more of a blanket to get anything that has come up, as well as provide some pre emergent control until I hit the 60 day mark.


That makes sense. I'll wait until spring for the pro-d app then. Second meso app goes down 45 DAG, correct? My grass is really starting to look good this week with the warm up. Another week of warmer temps will keep soil temps around 60-63 so should continue to have good growth for a little while. All I have left for this year is a couple more AMS apps, Tenacity, and 18-0-1 green punch (along with some Menards brand milo) At the beginning of November.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@mfran615 you can do second round of tenacity 30 DAG. If you threw more seed down later then you may want to wait, which is why I'm holding off a bit


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## mfran615 (Sep 2, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> @mfran615 you can do second round of tenacity 30 DAG. If you threw more seed down later then you may want to wait, which is why I'm holding off a bit


Gotcha. I've decided to hold off on the tenacity. Just going to put down prodiamine in the spring. I don't want any bleaching and I don't see any weeds popping up, other than a tiny bit of clover in a couple areas. Cold will be setting in here soon, so not worried about anything. When should I stop water every other day?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@mfran615 youll want to taper off the watering once the growing season comes to an end. As far as frequency, you'll want the soil to dry out in between watering to allow the roots a chance to start chasing water as the soil dries.


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## mfran615 (Sep 2, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> @mfran615 youll want to taper off the watering once the growing season comes to an end. As far as frequency, you'll want the soil to dry out in between watering to allow the roots a chance to start chasing water as the soil dries.


Thanks. That's helpful. Do I apply the last round of high N fert after it stops growing?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

The Mazama is now going nuts.

10/5:




10/14:




Coming in very nice now and taking off. Will be getting more N and a mow tomorrow. I have some weed pressure hitting it now, but will likely wait until spring to take care of it. Probably going to skip my second tenacity app on the Mazama and just put down prodiamine.

Will get pics of the TTTF later tonight when I'm home. The color is evening out, but I think I had some N burn on tips. I decided to just leave it be for a bit, skipped a mow, skipped an N app, and just let it grow for a bit. Will get a mow tomorrow, possibly with the rotary. We'll see.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Today was a long haul, but a good one. Finally edged, which took forever, mowed, fertilized, mowed the back, fertilized the back, picked up mums for out front, redid the window boxes... today was one of those days though that really showed me how much all of that hard work is paying off. I got done the back and went out front, the sun was finally setting, and it just looked so dang good.

Pre-edging/mowing:








Post-edging/mowing:












Mowed the Mazama at 1" and the TTTF at 2.5". The edging took quite a while as the soil I put down was really caked over the sidewalk, but was well worth the process. After that I put down an app of 9-0-1 GreeneStart and RGS over the whole front lawn. Just going to play it by year now with the N apps. More than likely will going with 18-0-1 on the 25th and then 6-0-0 GreeneEffect on the 29th.

The backyard is looking great as well. A lot of weed pressure, but I sort of just let it go because I try to refrain from too many chemicals back there with the dogs. The leaf struggle is real, but so far the mulching is keeping it in check. After mowing, put down Air8, MicroGreene, and 18-0-1. Far cry from where it was back in August.

8/23


9/13


10/15


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

OnTheLawn said:


>


Broo... the square edges .. :thumbup:


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

uts said:


> OnTheLawn said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Thank you! It felt very good to have those back haha. I was actually able to use a lot of what crept over the sidewalk as plugs, which was a bonus!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Thought it was time to spice things up a bit. Sharpened the rotary blade, made a makeshift striper with loaded PVC and a massive wrench (yup), and went to town on the TTTF.


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

It looks great, I just wanna roll around on it!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

18-0-1 GreenePunch and RGS went down today. 15oz and 3oz /M respectively for the TTTF. 12oz and 3oz /M for the Mazama. Very happy with the color so far it's still growing. Next up will be an app of 7-0-0 GreeneEffect sometime next week, likely Wednesday or Thursday.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Wow, Mazama looks like it's been there forever!


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Looking damn good! :thumbup:


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@Zcape35 @ericgautier thank you both!

@bf7 nuts, isn't it? For the longest time it looked like sparse, puny, weak grass that just could not get going. Then out of nowhere it exploded.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

In other news, the Mazama is facing some weed pressure. Not exactly sure what it is, but seems like a ground ivy/clover type of deal. I have Triclopyr, a 3-way, and tenacity on hand to tackle it, but not sure I'm going to do anything for now and then tackle once spring hits and the grass wakes up.



The backyard is now in full on leaf struggle mode. The massive tree in the middle of the yard drops leaves for about four-five weeks and it's in peak drop mode now. I mulched on Sunday and had it cleared up, this was yesterday:





The longest I can go without mulching seems to be 4 days. Even then, it takes two passes to really get it all. We'll see if I can keep it up, but if I get behind and need to rake it takes an entire day to get it done because it pummels the whole yard. Going to try my best to avoid that.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

The weeds on the first photo, I got those weed too. That's why I decided to mix in tenacity to my Prodiamine spray last night. After spraying, I left it overnight and then water 1/2 inch this morning. I know it might not kill those weeds, didn't put surfactant, but I hope it can prevent it from spreading. Last year I got more of those in November but come spring time it's not an issue anymore. Winter could have probably killed it.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Weed pressure is growing fast in the Mazama. Hit it with Triclopyr and tenacity (4oz/A rate) mix. I was going to hold off, but something is coming on fast now that is grassy, which could be Poa A. I'll post pics below.

Final fert apps are coming up with the 7-0-0 GreeneEffect going down sometime this week and then one final app of 18-0-1 to close out the year in a week or so. After that, prodiamine will go down on 11/5 and that should do it.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Looks like poa a. I'm thinking of mixing Tenacity with prodiamine this weekend to try to weaken them going into winter.

In the spring I think the options are either "spoon" apply Tenacity to slowly choke out the poa a or use Ethofumesate. Although it's more effective doing the initial app in the fall. Can't use it on young KBG seedlings.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@bf7 yea, I do believe it is. Thankfully the plot where it's growing is only 200 sq ft and it seems to be in a very concentrated area. The tenacity should at least light it up and then I can go in and hand pull.

Definitely not overwhelming though. That ground ivy crap is going like crazy though and I had to do something. Triclopyr with the tenacity kicker should knock it out no problem.

Hard to believe I'm only a week or so away from calling this reno complete...


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## Pezking7p (May 23, 2020)

The tttf looks like a shag carpet and the Mazama is filling in nicely.

Good job getting on the weeds. I think leaving them til spring would only let them get a good foothold.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@Pezking7p thank you! And yes, glad I tackled it now since it's coming on so fast. Grass won't be growing for much longer, so that'll leave room for winter weeds to take hold. This app and then the prodiamine in early November should be a good bet for control heading into next spring.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

I added tenacity, at normal rate as per syringe, on my Prodiamine on 10/22. Didn't see it turn white until now. I didn't use surfactant though. But I'm hoping that it will slow it down. Next spring, I'll spoon feed with tenacity.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Well, it's time to put a cap on this renovation and say goodnight to the lawn. Final fertilizer app went down yesterday. I followed Pete's "winterizer" mix:

- 20oz /M 18-0-1 GreenePunch
- 8oz /M 7-0-0 GreeneEffect
- 8oz /M 0-0-2 MicroGreene











You can see the Mazama plot took a bit of a hit with the tenacity/Triclopyr application. The Poa A is lighting up a bit and I'll have to hand pull a bunch. Thankfully it's only 200 sq ft. The winter ground ivy type weeds are knocked back considerably and disappearing now.

The TTTF is looking great and has a very strong stand already. There are areas I'll need to fill in next year and also some I'll have to thin out, but all in all I'm very pleased with how this turned out.

My goal heading into next year is to get a new rotary mower and follow a mostly liquid program that is low input with higher frequency. I'm also considering an attempt at overseeding the TTTF with a KBG, which I know is a tall task and not easy to pull off successfully.

A huge thank you everyone in this community, especially those who chimed in with input and advice (too many to list) on how to make this happen. Looking forward to 2021!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

How's the Mazama holding up from the herbicides as of today?

Just today I noticed a small amount of bleaching on the KBG from my Tenacity apps. I'm concerned I won't be able to mow it off prior to winter.

From what I've seen, Tenacity seems to cause more whitening on fescue than it does on KBG. Since you have separate stands of each grass type, would you say that's accurate?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

bf7 said:


> How's the Mazama holding up from the herbicides as of today?
> 
> Just today I noticed a small amount of bleaching on the KBG from my Tenacity apps. I'm concerned I won't be able to mow it off prior to winter.
> 
> From what I've seen, Tenacity seems to cause more whitening on fescue than it does on KBG. Since you have separate stands of each grass type, would you say that's accurate?


It actually did just fine. I haven't really noticed much bleaching on it, just some minor bleaching on the Poa. The ground ivy/clover crap was taken care of in a week or so and it's looking like a follow up app won't be necessary.

As far as the TTTF, I actually didn't notice any bleaching on the areas I hit with tenacity. I didn't blanket spray it, just spot treated where the clover was coming up, but in those areas I didn't see any bleaching. I was kind of surprised, especially with the addition of Triclopyr, and expected a bit of knock back, but nothing.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Whew, been a while! Work and the holidays and family stuff have kept me quite busy, but the lawn work hasn't stopped just yet. I thought I had my last mow a few weeks ago and then a warm spell hit and surged some growth. It's calmed back down now though with the below freezing temps and the lawn has been covered in snow for two days now.

My area had ZERO inches of snow cover last year, which was incredibly rare. Dogs are loving it and I'm loving it as well. I do miss seeing the dark green in the morning though... I was hoping to get some recent pics, but these will have to do. From 11/5:







Once the snow melts we'll see how we're looking and I'll get an update in. Haven't done much outside of mowing since the winterizer app and it's been on cruise control.


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## ColeLawn (Nov 11, 2020)

Looking forward to following along with your journal this year. If you don't mind me asking, what was your HOC at the end of last season?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@ColeLawn looking forward to having you and I'll be following along yours as well!

As for my HOC at the end of the season, I believe it was set at 2". It was tough to tell from my old mower, but that's about where it was.


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## ColeLawn (Nov 11, 2020)

@OnTheLawn Well, whatever the HOC was it looks amazing. I'm going to push for ~3" HOC, but let's get some germination first :lol:


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