# Dethatching with Rake



## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

I'm planning to dethatch my front lawn tomorrow using a manual thatching rake.

I was planning to mow at 3" before dethatching. Would it be better to lower HOC to 2-2.5"?

How long after over seeding before it is safe to dethatch?

My front yard had about 30-40% grass coverage in May (moved in during winter) and now its 100% thanks to the existing KBG spreading, so I assume there is a lot of thatch/dead grass. It's pretty easy to see the brown undertone at 3" cut.

Any pro tips regarding technique? Do you push down or rely on the weight of the rake (pull back only)?

One final question - will dethatching an area with Zoysia cause it to spread?


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

@Mozart I would wait for new grass to undergo a full growing season before dethatching. The roots are shallow and not established and you run the chance of ripping them right out.

I would suggest you wait until spring. If you want to do it now, either buy some D-Thatch  or make your own with molasses to avoid the mechanical option.

If you do wait until spring, mow as low as your turf can bounce from and bag it all. The more grass blades in the way the harder it is to get to the thatch layer.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Jconnelly6b said:


> @Mozart I would wait for new grass to undergo a full growing season before dethatching. The roots are shallow and not established and you run the chance of ripping them right out.
> 
> I would suggest you wait until spring. If you want to do it now, either buy some Air8 or make your own with molasses to avoid the mechanics option.
> 
> If you do wait until spring, mow as low as your turf can bounce from and bag it all. The more grass blades in the way the harder it is to get to the thatch layer.


That makes sense, thanks. I'll plan to do only the area of my front yard where I did not seed.

Hope this helps make the yard look a deep green without the brown/yellow undertone... how long does it take to green up? I'm planning to start the fall N blitz after the dethatch.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

At least a year after planting, unless you go super light and it roots well before that.

I definitely recommend the Groundskeeper II rake for dethatching if you don't already have one. I have never seen anything easier to use or more effective. It will pull out various amounts of stuff depending on pressure. I used it on my grass planted last year and was able to pull out only dead grass, not a green blade...by going super light. You can get it at Ace Hardware for around 30 bucks. See my lawn journal, latest posts, for a photo of the rake. It's seriously that good. I bet the manufacturer loves me now! I found out about it from @GrassDaddy.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Green said:


> At least a year after planting, unless you go super light and it roots well before that.
> 
> I definitely recommend the Groundskeeper II rake for dethatching if you don't already have one. I have never seen anything easier to use or more effective. It will pull out various amounts of stuff depending on pressure. I used it on my grass planted last year and was able to pull out only dead grass, not a green blade...by going super light. You can get it at Ace Hardware for around 30 bucks. See my lawn journal, latest posts, for a photo of the rake. It's seriously that good. I bet the manufacturer loves me now! I found out about it from @GrassDaddy.


Have you compared a groundskeeper 2 to a thatching rake? If so is it really superior to a traditional thatching rake at dethatching? I saw GrassDaddy's videos and it looks like a great rake.

Maybe I'll return the thatching rake and find a groundskeeper 2 online (no Ace hardware near me).


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Mozart said:


> Have you compared a groundskeeper 2 to a thatching rake? If so is it really superior to a traditional thatching rake at dethatching? I saw GrassDaddy's videos and it looks like a great rake.
> 
> Maybe I'll return the thatching rake and find a groundskeeper 2 online (no Ace hardware near me).


Yes!

With caveats...

I have and use both (an Ames steel blade dethatching rake) and also various types of leaf rakes that see use for dethatching as well. The Groundskeeper is my favorite. I rarely use the bladed thatch rake. You will see why once you try the groundskeeper. They're two totally different tools, and it's a night and day difference in user experience and results. The bladed rake has its use, but is used rarely. I have not used it this year at all.

I also detatched 4,000 square feet over a period of a few days last year, mainly with the groundskeeper. Not only was it effective, but I could still move after!

The metal spring tine and stiff plastic leaf rakes see a lot of use too. The metal spring tine one is great for standing up matted grass or light detatching.

The plastic one is good for getting what the Groundskeeper misses (roots, etc.), and then raking it into a pile, or for raking detatched grass in an area that's almost bare dirt, or spreading soil or peat moss. You go too hard with it though, and really mess up the grass...the plastic leaf rake rips it out.

The technique and pressure is different for each rake, too.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

@Mozart here are before and after photos of my yard this past spring.

May 9 After scalping and power rake and Nitrogen.



June 9



June 20


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

@Harts amazing difference! I can't wait to get my groundskeeper 2! Looks like it's safe to use on Zoysia infested turf too (won't chop up underground stolons).


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

@mozart you sure you don't want to order and try the D-Thatch? You could throw it in with another of your tank sprays.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Jconnelly6b said:


> @mozart you sure you don't want to order and try the D-Thatch? You could throw it in with another of your tank sprays.


I would love to! But I don't think my wife would go for that. Next year I'm planning to do some more advanced applications - maybe Dthatch or air8 but at a minimum PGR and Prodiamine.

She thinks that we've spent enough on the overseed, fertilizers, weed products, tools, etc. Next year I'll already have all of the basics so the lawn budget can go towards more fun stuff.

This year fill in the lawn by overseeding and next year make it look amazing/fake :thumbup:


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Sounds like my wife!


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

@Harts I got my groundskeeper 2 but having trouble getting the nail hole in the pole aligned with the rake head nail hole.

Did yours come installed or did you have to put it together?

Even though I couldn't get the holes to align it was tight enough to test. Works great so far!


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Sorry I don't have one of those. I have a dethatching rake. I also rent a power rake from HD once a year.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Harts said:


> Sorry I don't have one of those. I have a dethatching rake. I also rent a power rake from HD once a year.


Sorry I meant to ask @Green that question:


Mozart said:


> I got my groundskeeper 2 but having trouble getting the nail hole in the pole aligned with the rake head nail hole.
> 
> Did yours come installed or did you have to put it together?
> 
> Even though I couldn't get the holes to align it was tight enough to test. Works great so far!


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Mozart, mine was already assembled. It has a nice thick philips head screw holding it together, if that helps.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Also, D-thatch or molasses isn't a replacement for raking prior to seeding of course. It just helps break down some of the dead stuff faster so it doesn't get out of hand. So does Milo or other organic fert. Even if you use that type of stuff, you still probably have to rake before overseeding.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

I did a test run 37 ft long, 1 rake width and it removed an impressive amount of dead material.

Unfortunately a good amount of green was also pulled up (more KBG than fescue unfortunately). I think this is due to a lack of maintenance on the lawn over the last few years as the prior owner prepared to sell.

I'm fine with that though as I expect the KBG to spread and fill in over the next 6 weeks. Here are some pics of my test stripe:





Side by side comparison:



Before closeup:



After closeup - this included a second mower pass to cut grass tips matted down, and do vacuum up debris:



Pretty big difference but there is still quite a bit of material on the soil surface. Right now my HOC is 3"; I'm planning to dethatch again in a few weeks, hopefully after lowering HOC to 2.25" (or whatever the next notch down provides on the Ego mower).

@g-man, @Green and everyone else:

What do you guys think? Do I need a second pass or did I remove enough material?

Did I pull up too much live grass?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Looks good, and typical, pulling up some of the grass that's not well-rooted. That's normal if it hasn't been done in a while and you have a lot of dead material.

It looks like you hit a good balance. I would say you did enough if you're not seeding in that area. You want some thatch to remain for insulation...about half inch. You don't need to see bare soil unless you're overseeding.

Now, it's time to fertilize after you finish, assuming you haven't yet.

If you want, you can save some of the better grass plants you pulled up, and either plant them in bare spots, or pot them for a few weeks to create plugs for bare spots...if they have good roots. I try to reuse as much as I can, in general.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

@Mozart that looks great. You're never going to remove EVERYTHING, nor do you want to. Part of the reason to dethatch is to get rid of excess thatch and to thin the lawn out a bit to allow it to grow back back thicker.

You have now created some space for air, water and your Urea to better penetrate your soil.

Trust me, you lawn will thicken up.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Looks good to me. Some green will come out but as long as it is mostly brown. Compost?


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Thanks @Harts, @Green and @Suburban Jungle Life.

I think the volume of debris is causing the green stuff to pull up - it's toed together like a knot. I will fertilize again in the next day or two and can't wait to see the results!

Looks like I might have to compost... I only have 3 large garbage bins and thanks to the Nitrogen blitz and thatching project they are filling up fast this week!

Can I just dump the stuff on a corner of my yard? Or is there an art to composting? What do you use compost for - top dressing next year?


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Can't speak to this as I don't compost. We have yard waste pick up every other week as part of out waste collection service.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Harts said:


> Can't speak to this as I don't compost. We have yard waste pick up every other week as part of out waste collection service.


We have it weekly, but I'm thinking i'll have 3 weeks worth of refuse by the time I finish with my front yard... that pile is from a 21" width of a 60 foot wide yard 

Maybe i'll buy some of those paper refuse bags for this project.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

That's what I use. Sometimes I end up putting 9 or 10 bags out for pick up.

How much did you pay for that rake? I just looked on Amazon and it $85 Canadian PLUS shipping - $100 total. For that much I'd expect it to cut my lawn too.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Wow! 

I paid $41.75 shipped from Amazon. There were sellers offering it for less.

Still haven't been able to push the handle in far enough to screw it to the head... only fell apart one time in that long stretch though. I'll probably trim the handle with a box cutter or saw so the holes align.

Even my wife (who is getting tired of lawn talk :lol: ) was impressed with how well the rake performed.

I've heard that it doesn't work as well on thick lawns, but I can't speak to that. Would recommend and purchase again!


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Also check out this picture I took from the second floor of my house. BIG difference from above!

(Test strip next to driveway)


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## Wlodyd (Aug 27, 2018)

You need "brown" (carbon) material to mix your grass clippings when composting. Basically a good balance of "green" material (nitrogen) to "brown" material (carbon). So some small sticks, leaves, coffee grounds, etc. mix well with grass clippings for composting. It can basically compost in a pile anywhere, just stir it up every once in a while. If you don't have that or don't want to mess with it, I would bag it and dispose.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Everything is more expensive here. Even the Bud Light!

Yeah you will notice a difference with a rake like that. I only use mine for my small front lawn. I use it every spring. It's a freaking work out. It would take me a few hours to do 1700 sf in my backyard.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Wlodyd said:


> You need "brown" (carbon) material to mix your grass clippings when composting. Basically a good balance of "green" material (nitrogen) to "brown" material (carbon). So some small sticks, leaves, coffee grounds, etc. mix well with grass clippings for composting. It can basically compost in a pile anywhere, just stir it up every once in a while. If you don't have that or don't want to mess with it, I would bag it and dispose.


Thanks @Wlodyd, that explains why that pile of grass I dumped in the corner (my "compost pile") is only slowly turning yellow - need some hot carbon rich material to help the chemistry.

Does thatch count as carbon? How about leaves?

@Harts my front lawn is 2200 sqft, I will try to time it and let you know how long it takes :thumbup:


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Have a bottle of Aleve and a case of beer ready to go!

Can't wait!


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

@Harts

Phew that was a lot of work. First 1300 sqft took 2 hours including cleanup (second mowing and squeezing all the debris into 2 garbage cans). The actual raking was probably 1 hour 30 minutes.

900sqft to go tomorrow. Should be fun with a sore back and blisters :lol:

I should also mention in retrospect I removed more green material than expected because everything was interwoven. Many small poa plants growing with either shallow rhizomes or stolons were removed. Might be annua/triv, but I didn't have light green patches before so hopefully this was just shallow roots.

Also I did this at 3" HOC which was a bad idea, tomorrow I mow down to 2.25" first :thumbup:


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Oh yeah meant to post a pic:


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Haha. Nice work.

Wear gloves tomorrow.

I'm a little jealous it's still light out at that hour. I'm not that much further north and it's almost dark at 7:45!


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## Wlodyd (Aug 27, 2018)

Leaves, definately yes. Thatch, I would say definately has some carbon in it, but probably like 50-50, so not really adding anything to it. Mulch up some leaves and clean up any tree branches, break up the branches as much as you can and toss them on there to balance it out.


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## LawnNeighborSam (Aug 14, 2018)

Careful with a dethatching rake. I ripped some parts of the lawn out cuz I was getting way too excited. Those areas are just filling in now since I overseeded two weeks ago


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

For composting, personally, I would skip the sticks. They take too long to break down. I like to layer leaves and grass. For now, just make a pile of grass. Once the leaves fall down, put down a few inches of leaves and then use a pitch fork to put the grass in a layer and then another layer of leaves. If you just leave it alone, in about 2 years, you'll have dark rich compost. If you turn it once a month and hit it with the hose to make each layer slightly damp, it may only take a few months to happen. You can add all your food waste, fruits and veggies only, into the pile. Though, animals might dig into it to get those scraps.

Since I put lots of stuff into the pile, I don't use the compost on the grass. It might have weeds and I feed the lawn anyway so I don't see a point. Also, root cycling is more effective than top dressing organic matter in my opinion. I use it in the flower beds and around trees. Every couple years, I'll rake up the old mulch around a tree, reduce the dirt level if needed (base of the tree and large roots should be exposed, no mulch volcanoes!), then add a thick layer of compost and put new mulch on top. I put the old mulch into the compost pile to break down.

On the other hand, if you don't have a corner which is out of the way and won't be an eye sore, then I wouldn't bother. You can put everything into a spot for now until you get a chance to bag it and have it taken away. For me, I have the space and at $5 for a bag of compost, I prefer the free stuff...


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