# Above Ground Irrigation Advice



## gregonfire (Sep 18, 2017)

Hey All,

Need some advice on my current above ground irrigation system. I did the tuna can test this morning, and after 2 hours it only put down ~1/4".

First let me explain the current setup:

I have 4 "zones", 2 in the front and 2 in the back. They are the same setup front and back: one zone is a rainbird impact sprinkler, the other zone is 2 orbit voyager II daisy chained together. All the sprinklers are on spike bases.

I am able to run two zones at the same time (off two different spigots) without a noticeable drop in pressure.

Is there a different sprinkler you guys recommend that will put out more water? Or is it simply a water pressure problem? I feel like I have pretty decent water pressure. I never measured it though.

TLR - Current sprinkler setup put down 1/4" in 2 hours, I would like to put down 1" in 2 hours (or 3), is this a pressure problem or a sprinkler selection problem?









This pic may help visualize the setup.. The red dots are gear drive sprinklers, the blue dots are impact sprinklers. the 2 front gear drives are daisy chained together, same with the back ones. So I have a total of 4 "zones". I'm using orbit hose timers. All the sprinklers are attached to spike bases.


----------



## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

Look into Hunter pgp heads. Any of the in-ground sprinkler system heads and nozzles would work better. I have a couple threads below this one with quite a bit of info on the exact same question you are asking.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think you need to first work on the location of your sprinkler heads. You really need head to head coverage (above or below ground). A sprinkler is normally good at spraying water at a distance but not near it. That's why you need another sprinkler to throw water to the first head.









- image from irrigationtutorials.com

Read https://www.irrigationtutorials.com/ for a lot of background info.

Determine your max GPM from your spigot. This will determine how many heads you could run at once.
I would not run two zone at once. Just time them to run at different times or days.
For layout, start with placing heads at the corners (90 degree) throws.


----------



## Ballistic (Mar 19, 2018)

I doubt pressure is an issue amusing you're on city water, but you could buy a cheap gauge to test and rule that out.

Out of curiosity what size pipe are you using?

+1 for hunter PGP heads or the I-20s


----------



## gregonfire (Sep 18, 2017)

Ral1121 said:


> Look into Hunter pgp heads. Any of the in-ground sprinkler system heads and nozzles would work better. I have a couple threads below this one with quite a bit of info on the exact same question you are asking.


Don't know if you saw, but I'm using the voyager II in-ground heads on spike bases. Are the PGP's that much better?



g-man said:


> I think you need to first work on the location of your sprinkler heads. You really need head to head coverage (above or below ground). A sprinkler is normally good at spraying water at a distance but not near it. That's why you need another sprinkler to throw water to the first head.
> 
> Determine your max GPM from your spigot. This will determine how many heads you could run at once.
> I would not run two zone at once. Just time them to run at different times or days.
> For layout, start with placing heads at the corners (90 degree) throws.


I have head to head coverage, the illustration I made was crude and done in MS paint and isn't accurate.

As far as running 2 zones at once, it was an experiment and I didn't notice any difference in sprinkler distance / pressure. It was more so I could get a good tuna can test. I'll try to figure out the GPM of my spigot. Thanks for your help gman.



Ballistic said:


> I doubt pressure is an issue amusing you're on city water, but you could buy a cheap gauge to test and rule that out.
> 
> Out of curiosity what size pipe are you using?
> 
> +1 for hunter PGP heads or the I-20s


I'm using a regular garden hose, I guess it's 5/8". I asked Ral as well, but would like your opinion. Are the PGP heads that much better than the other options?

Thanks all


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

This is what I meant by head to head coverage.









- from irrigation tutorials.

See there are sprinklers heads are in the corners of the property. So you should have one by the street and driveway. Then another one should be south of that point to the throw distance of the head selected.


----------



## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

I believe pgp heads are a better choice. You can get more flow from the set up in a square or triangle. Here is a link to the specs for the pgp

https://www.hunterindustries.com/irrigation-product/rotors/pgp-ultra

Only question is if you have the pressure and GPM to supply them.

Here is a pic of the specs on the orbit Voyager you have

You can see it does not put out as much as the pgp ultras


----------



## gregonfire (Sep 18, 2017)

@g-man @Ral1121

Thanks for the info guys. I'm kind of limited being on hose bibs and timers. But, based on the info here I think I'm going to do the following:

- Keep two zones front, two zones back
- each zone will be 2 hunter pgp ultra heads daisy chained on spike bases
- make a box shape with the sprinklers, basically one head in each corner of the front / back yard

I know it would be beneficial to have an additional head in the middle doing a 360, but I don't think it's possible to run 3 heads on one line to do this and don't want to add another zone front and back.

Thoughts?


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

This sounds like a plan. You could try the 3 heads in a zone with an extra hose to see if it works. It mostly comes down to gpm in that zone which will be limited by your house/city water connections.


----------



## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

gregonfire said:


> @g-man @Ral1121
> 
> Thanks for the info guys. I'm kind of limited being on hose bibs and timers. But, based on the info here I think I'm going to do the following:
> 
> ...


It all depends on the pressure and GPM flow. I get around 55 psi and 7 GPM flow out of my spicket and I was able to run 3 pgp heads set up as 2 90's and a 360


----------



## gregonfire (Sep 18, 2017)

g-man said:


> This sounds like a plan. You could try the 3 heads in a zone with an extra hose to see if it works. It mostly comes down to gpm in that zone which will be limited by your house/city water connections.





Ral1121 said:


> It all depends on the pressure and GPM flow. I get around 55 psi and 7 GPM flow out of my spicket and I was able to run 3 pgp heads set up as 2 90's and a 360


Thanks again guys. I will experiment today with 3 of my current gear drives daisy chained to see if I have the pressure to handle it. Will be ordering the PGP's after I figure that out. It will determine whether I get 8 or 10 of them.

Should I get the one with a check valve? I'm going to say no because my silcocks have built in check valves


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

gregonfire said:


> 2 hunter pgp ultra heads daisy chained on spike bases


Do you know what spikes you will be using? I don't see any spikes packaged with them.

Also, does anyone ever think about the risks of using spikes with regard to pre-emergents (breaking the barrier with the spike)?


----------



## gregonfire (Sep 18, 2017)

social port said:


> Do you know what spikes you will be using? I don't see any spikes packaged with them.
> 
> Also, does anyone ever think about the risks of using spikes with regard to pre-emergents (breaking the barrier with the spike)?


I use these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004S1VI/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They're really sturdy, don't move, and are pretty durable. I also like that they have the rotating female hose connection so it's super easy to put on / take off the hose when transporting.

never gave any thought to the pre-m barrier... hmm.


----------



## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

Build your own sprinklers out of pvc pipe. You don't have to worry about breaking the berrier or the spikes falling over once the ground gets wet. It might actually be cheaper too


----------



## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

Ok, so i think i can offer some insight here. First, i would highly recommend getting a psi gauge. Check the psi at end of the hose where it will be when attached to the 1st sprinkler. I noticed a 5psi drop just from the friction of the hose. I then measured the end of the 2nd hose. I had another 10 psi drop from all the hose AND from the 1st spike base. Put the whole system together and check the psi at the end of the last hose, you'll be shocked.

Also, coming off a spigot you'll need to check how that spigot is connected into your house's water supply. I inspected mine and it turns out, my spigot was connected by 1/4" pex at the end of the bathroom line that was 1/4" copper. Turns out, you can jame 1/4" pex into 1/2" spigot.

.

I ended up redoing the connection to the spigot. I cut and capped the line coming from the bathroom, and ran 3/4" copper off the main line coming into the house. I then reduced it to 1/2" just before the spigot connection. I now get a lot more GPM and a little increase in PSI with the reworking. The black pipe is the line entering from the city, and you can see where i added a shutoff valve for convienance of being able to enact repairs or maintenance without having to shut off the rest of the house. Granted it helps i have an unfinished basement.


----------



## gregonfire (Sep 18, 2017)

@LawnNerd thanks for the info. I installed new spigots and piping for both of my outside connections last summer. They are both 1/2". We have good water pressure, I will look into the pressure gauge and do some tests. We are supposed to get a good amount of rain in the next week and temps aren't going to be crazy, so I still have some time to test and work out a solid plan.

I'm hoping that I can get 3 heads on one spigot, that will give me 5 PGP heads in the front and 5 in the back.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

My house was built on 3/4in pex at the house main, but 1/2 pex at the spigots. 3/4 PEX is like a 1/2 copper in flow and 1/2 PEX is like a straw. I switched all of my spigots to 3/4 in PEX (spigots, pipe, T, valves). It made a big difference in gpm.

Normally, pressure is not the problem, but flow is.


----------



## gregonfire (Sep 18, 2017)

g-man said:


> My house was built on 3/4in pex at the house main, but 1/2 pex at the spigots. 3/4 PEX is like a 1/2 copper in flow and 1/2 PEX is like a straw. I switched all of my spigots to 3/4 in PEX (spigots, pipe, T, valves). It made a big difference in gpm.
> 
> Normally, pressure is not the problem, but flow is.


That is very interesting. The one spigot is 1/2" copper, the other is 1/2" PEX. The PEX is much closer to the city supply than the copper. I haven't noticed any difference in the two.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The ID of a PEX pipe is smaller than copper, which means the cross sectional area is smaller by the square term.

Again, pressure is not a problem, but gpm is. If you are trying to run multiple heads, you will run out of gpm in the 1/2pex sooner than the copper. Do the 5 gallon bucket test on each spigot.


----------



## gregonfire (Sep 18, 2017)

g-man said:


> The ID of a PEX pipe is smaller than copper, which means the cross sectional area is smaller by the square term.
> 
> Again, pressure is not a problem, but gpm is. If you are trying to run multiple heads, you will run out of gpm in the 1/2pex sooner than the copper. Do the 5 gallon bucket test on each spigot.


Interesting. I didn't have time this morning to do the bucket test, but I did string 3 of my current gear drives together and they worked properly, although the stream wasn't shooting as far. I think if I swapped the nozzles it would be fine. I'm going to order 10 pgp ultra heads.


----------



## craigdt (Apr 21, 2018)

Following this thread, as there is some good info regarding pressure and flow- a subject that Im struggling with.

How did this turn out?


----------



## gregonfire (Sep 18, 2017)

craigdt said:


> Following this thread, as there is some good info regarding pressure and flow- a subject that Im struggling with.
> 
> How did this turn out?


I haven't done a legit test yet as it's been super wet here in NJ. I was able to successfully string 3 heads together using the 3gpm nozzle. The 4.0 was enough to get them all to pop up and spray, but distance suffered dramatically.

I'll update the thread once I get a chance to test out the whole system. My hope is I can put down 1" of water in 2 hours.


----------



## gregonfire (Sep 18, 2017)

Had a chance to try out the system this morning.

After some trial and error with the setup last night, I was able to get things the way I wanted with 3 zones in the front.

2 zones that have 2 heads daisy chained, using the 3gpm nozzles. These go in 90* angles and are in the corners of the yard.
1 zone that has 1 head using a 5gpm nozzle doing a 360*

I set each zone to run for 2 hours, starting at 230am.

I left for work before the last zone was finished, but there was about .75" of water in all of the tuna cans, with about 1 hour left on the timer.

So, this is a win in my book.


----------

