# Bermuda not thick...what am I doing wrong?



## mr_matalino (Mar 27, 2020)

Howdy y'all, this is my first post but I'm long time lurker. I've enjoyed this forum for all the great advice and wealth of information a lot of you have. I find myself in an uncomfortable spot asking for help.

My bermuda lawn is from a new home build 2 years ago. I've always struggled with it thinning out in spots and can't get it thick. I've done milo and other main stream fertilizers the last two years with an occasional humic acid applications. This year I completely changed my program and have put a lot more effort (and $$$) into it. I live in central Texas where we have high alkaline soil (ph 8+) and also put down an application of sulfur to help correct it (although I know there are different opinions about that here).

I'm about to put down an app of liquid iron and another round of liquid fert to see if that will help with nitrogen uptake. I've scalped and dethatched and put down multiple liquid fert apps, PGF complete, humic acid, milo, and liquid aeration. The only thing I haven't it seems is physical aeration which I'm probably going to do this weekend. Maybe get some compost too. What am I doing wrong? The grass that's there seems to be healthy although it doesn't seem to be growing that fast and won't thicken up. It's only the end of April and I'm already frustrated. 

Any ideas? Below are some pics that are very typical through the yard.


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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

1. Perform a soil test, especially on new construction to see what your lawn needs from a fertilizer standpoint
2. Poke around in those holes with a screwdriver. It could be construction debris under these spots causing it to not root properly


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## DuncanMcDonuts (May 5, 2019)

It looks like you still have quite a thick thatch layer that's preventing the bermuda from spreading. Maybe try dethatching lower.

What's your HOC?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Where in Texas do you live? It's a pretty big state and the weather can be different depending where you live.
What are your average daily temps?
Spending more money on products does not guarantee results as I am sure you are figuring out 

I think your lawn looks fine and it's still waking up from the Winter, especially after you have scalped and verticut the lawn. Just make sure you are feeding it .5lb of Nitrogen/M(1,000 sq/ft) a month, that it's getting enough water for the weather you have and you are mowing regularly and you will be fine. Once it grows in and thickens up (this will happen when the weather warms up more) you will be able to reassess if you have any problem areas and we can tackle those at that time. Patience will be your best friend at this time and also your wallets 

If you get a soil test done that should help a little as it may tell what is going on with the soil but bermuda is pretty resilient and can grow pretty much anywhere. Feel free to ask any and all questions you may have as we are all here to help you get to where you want to go. Welcome to TLF!!!


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## jarrodsp71 (Oct 4, 2018)

I have same issue. I'm in NC and I'm blaming mostly the temps. I haven't done a soil test yet but I'm doing what I believe is general NPK number fert. I feel once it starts getting warmer and more active my, and your, spots will fill in. Good luck.


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## Texas_Bermuda (Sep 1, 2018)

Thatch aside, it does appear thin. How many hours of full, direct sun are you receiving? I am a grass murderer, and fought a bermuda battle against low sun for 2 years. Do you have 8+? at least 6+?


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## Daddylonglegs (May 15, 2019)

It is still fairly early in the season and it sounds like you are on the right track. Keep up with all the cultural practices as mentioned above, as those will do you just as much, if not more good than any product will. Lastly, I doubt it's an issue since you are at a new construction, but is there significant shade? No product can help combat what shade does to Bermuda.


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## JayGo (Jun 13, 2019)

Give it a light raking to see how much debris you can pull up. Is that your usual HOC?


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## mr_matalino (Mar 27, 2020)

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond. It helps me stay motivated.

I spent last year with a spading fork probing for construction debris thinking that was the problem...especially in my problem areas. My wife thought I had gone crazy. Hauled out pretty big rocks and bricks below ground but no significant improvement. My local extension office has been MIA with the virus so I bought a DIY soil kit...not the most accurate but says I was still low on N and P and really high PH.

Soil temps are in low to mid 70's. *And YES, $$$ and products does NOT equal guaranteed success.* HOC is about .75 but currently letting it grow up to 1" to see what happens. I'm in the Austin area.

The grass in the pictures are on the south side and get plenty of sun but that's typical anywhere in my yard...lots of sun. It's new construction so we have new planting trees so no issue there. New sod was thick and laid in February 2018 so it was dormant. But has not thrived here and I can't figure out why?


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## TXG (Mar 2, 2020)

I'm in the same boat as you Mr Matilino, track neighborhood in Kyle Tx trying to turn around a 6yr Bermuda sod lawn. Owned it for 4yrs now, but i let it go to crap last year and now doing my best to recover it. My Tamu test showed low Nitrogen and Phosphorus with a high Ph 8.1, everything else was good. Been working on boosting up these macros with 2 week feedings. Will aerate and compost topdress this week to help with bare spots, I have lots of faith this will do plenty of good. Doing a little sprig and plug experiment as well currently.

I'm willing to bet the thin turf is due to a weak root system from the lacking P. Also the crap soil we have in this area really does suck. I truly believe that aerating and topdressing over the years is the only way to change the composition of the soil in our yards. The Ph will never change longterm due to too much limestone in our soil and water. Also make sure u are watering religiously 2x a week to get the necessary irrigation. Waking up at 6am to water sucks, but thats what I got to do with no sprinklers at the moment. Good luck!!


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

@TXG @mr_matalino

Here is a good reference guide calendar.
https://cdn-ext.agnet.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/ESC-042-bermudagrass-lawn-management-calendar.pdf

The drought we had last summer was really hard on the grass. Now we have had a lot of rain in the fall and spring. Keep checking for fungus issues. Take all Root Rot/ Bermuda Decline/ Take all patch is taking out a lot of lawns right now in my area. Sod farms treat for Fungus. Send the grass to you, and a few years later Fungus expands with the conditions like we have had lately.

http://www.greencastonline.com/tools/pestoutlooks.aspx


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## mr_matalino (Mar 27, 2020)

TGX...keep me updated on your progress! Misery loves company lol. It looks like it will not just be a one season turn around for me which is frustrating. I'm concerned it will be a long guess and check process. I'm going to focus on the soil (humic, biochar, aeration) and I like your idea of adding more P to see if that helps the roots and maybe some plugs to see if they take. This high PH crap soil is killing me!

cldrunner...thanks for that info!! I'm going to dig into that!


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## j2dna (Apr 1, 2020)

I'm out in Prosper and I'm dealing with similar issues. I've got it a lot thicker in places than what you're showing. My yard has been pretty slow to turn over. I've been cutting it down to a little under 1" but wonder if I should take it a notch lower at least once. I put down CarbonX 3 weeks ago and things have steadily improved.

First pick was 4/5 and the second is on 4/20. Third pic shows a close up of what I'm dealing with. Would dethatching make a significant difference here? I just ordered the Bio-Stem pack from N-Ext to help with soil issues. Should be in next week.


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

@j2dna When you pull that dead grass do the roots seem dark or white like your growing grass?


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## DuncanMcDonuts (May 5, 2019)

@j2dna All that thatch is very hydrophobic and water just washes off instead of penetrates into the soil. Dethatching will help a lot.


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## Buffalolawny (Nov 24, 2018)

Looks like root depth too shallow and soil a little compacted.

Might need an aerate or two this season.

Aerate - starter fertiliser - thin top dress with soil "not sand"

Try a patch in the lawn and see if it helps. Then later apply that o the rest of the yard.


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## Rpatterson (Jul 13, 2018)

DuncanMcDonuts said:


> @j2dna All that thatch is very hydrophobic and water just washes off instead of penetrates into the soil. Dethatching will help a lot.


+1 :thumbup:


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

For everyone on this thread that is concerned about their Bermuda not greening up or not thick enough, just pump the brakes and relax!!!!

It is WAY TOO early in the season right now to start worrying about your lawn. Just give it some time to warm up some more before you start throwing everything at it. Unless you are getting in the 80's everyday and dropping down into the mid 60's at night, your lawn is still waking up. Make sure your lawn is getting enough water also as that too will hold back your lawn from from greening up. I've seen Bermuda grow through several inches of mulch in a flower bed and through concrete and asphalt so if you think that little layer of thatch is going to stop it from growing, you are kidding yourself.

I understand that everyone wants to have a nice thick green lawn right now but you are at the mercy of Mother Nature right now and patience in lawn care is just as important as anything you may apply in the lawn. Go relax, have a beer and as long as you have fertilized recently and are either watering or getting enough rain, just wait because in another month or two you will be wishing you have the weather you have right now and that the bermuda wasn't growing as fast as it will be at that time.

Sorry for the rant but I felt it needed to be said.


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## theguybrarian (Apr 11, 2020)

Mightyquinn said:


> For everyone on this thread that is concerned about their Bermuda not greening up or not thick enough, just pump the brakes and relax!!!!
> 
> It is WAY TOO early in the season right now to start worrying about your lawn. Just give it some time to warm up some more before you start throwing everything at it. Unless you are getting in the 80's everyday and dropping down into the mid 60's at night, your lawn is still waking up. Make sure your lawn is getting enough water also as that too will hold back your lawn from from greening up. I've seen Bermuda grow through several inches of mulch in a flower bed and through concrete and asphalt so if you think that little layer of thatch is going to stop it from growing, you are kidding yourself.
> 
> ...


Solid words -- I needed to read that.


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## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

Mightyquinn said:


> For everyone on this thread that is concerned about their Bermuda not greening up or not thick enough, just pump the brakes and relax!!!!
> 
> ---
> 
> Sorry for the rant but I felt it needed to be said.


As a new and nervous Bermuda parent, I needed to hear this. Thanks, MQ.


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## Huff (Oct 22, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> For everyone on this thread that is concerned about their Bermuda not greening up or not thick enough, just pump the brakes and relax!!!!
> 
> It is WAY TOO early in the season right now to start worrying about your lawn. Just give it some time to warm up some more before you start throwing everything at it. Unless you are getting in the 80's everyday and dropping down into the mid 60's at night, your lawn is still waking up. Make sure your lawn is getting enough water also as that too will hold back your lawn from from greening up. I've seen Bermuda grow through several inches of mulch in a flower bed and through concrete and asphalt so if you think that little layer of thatch is going to stop it from growing, you are kidding yourself.
> 
> ...


+1 One thing that helped me was driving around the neighborhood and looking at other people's yards. Everyone that has a warm season lawn, be it zoysia or bermuda, their lawn looks like just like mine. I finally put two and two together and came to realize that it's the weather. It simply hasn't been warm enough and too many cloudy days and cool nights. Last year was an anomoly here in MidTN. By this time of year in 2019, my lawn was fully greened up and growing like mad. I looked at historic data and by 24 April 2019, we'd already had 10 days of around 80° or better. This April, we've had 2 days of 80°. We've also had a couple of heavy frosts which really knocked the grass back. I'm biting my tongue until mid May. Let's see what happens. Thanks again for being the voice of reason, @Mightyquinn


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## j2dna (Apr 1, 2020)

Thx for the input guys!

While I know it's still early Spring, I think dethatching would be productive. Plan to do that this weekend and lay down some Air8/RGS/Humic12 next week. I'm a couple week out from another round of fertilizer so I've got some time to see how this works out. I do think I've got a lot soil issues that need to be addressed and hopefully the bio-stim pack helps with that. May need to be aggressive with it till early summer.


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## Meximusprime (Jun 21, 2019)

Solid words from Mighty. I was in the same boat my first ever season in 2018 with bermuda. By June I was damn this stuff is growing through everything and please let me catch up.

It was growing so fast and my head was spinning.


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## DuncanMcDonuts (May 5, 2019)

Our temps here in Texas have been in the 80s+ for a month at least, other than the late cold front last week. I scalped at the beginning of February, then dethatched two weeks later. I've been mowing regularly since March.

I know you guys on the east coast are just starting to warm up, but it's been growing season here for a while and my grass is aggressively growing. I'm mowing every 5 days to keep at 0.8".


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## mr_matalino (Mar 27, 2020)

@DuncanMcDonuts

What does your program look like as we don't live that far from each other. Do you struggle with anything similar?

My original concern is that I've struggled with thin bermuda for 2 years and not seeing any change with an aggressive new program. Your right, we've had good warm weather (other than that recent cold front) for some time so I'm not sure if it's necessarily a weather thing for us in CTX. But I'm sure @Mightyquinn is probably right...I just need more patience since it's still early. My neighbors grass doesn't look this thin but then again they have a much higher HOC.

Thanks everyone for your feedback!


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## Jaxnoah (Jul 6, 2019)

I am here in Pflugerville and my lawn is greening up nicely. Just be patient and it will green up before you know it.


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## DuncanMcDonuts (May 5, 2019)

@mr_matalino

Are you irrigating 1" of water a week? I can see some areas where the bare dirt looks cracked open and dry. That's the most important thing is making sure the grass is getting watered.

That goes into my dethatch point. Water will run right off the dead thatch and the soil won't get soaked. It's wasted water.

Next step would be regular mowing and fertilizing. The Bermuda Bible is exactly what you should follow for good practices. Most would recommend a soil test, but it'll probably look like 99% of everyone else's tests in our area. pH of 8, high calcium, low phosphorous and potassium.

My main fertilizers are a balanced 13-13-13 and ammonium sulfate. I alternate between them, but will also add low amounts of ammonium sulfate in some areas to encourage more growth. I've also been putting elemental sulfur down twice a year at 5 lb/1000 each time. Top dressing with compost will also improve your soil.


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## p1muserfan (Jul 7, 2019)

+1 on the water. I noticed cracks in my yard last Sunday while mowing and said enough of waiting on rain. Its not like I don't have a sprinkler system. Granted, it's finally warmed up and sunny here this week but my watering 3 times has made the biggest difference. No more cracks and the grass is greening and growing, I'll be! At the beginning of April we had the 3rd wettest year to date. I think this month so far we've had .8"


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## Buster (Apr 3, 2020)

Great thread, and good comments. I'm new to this house and Bermuda, and have been spending sooooo much time on it. It's thick and green in places, but thin and bare in others.

Just needs time, and water! Got my irrigation system figured out today too, waiting on rain isn't helping.


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## mr_matalino (Mar 27, 2020)

@DuncanMcDonuts

Yeah I've noticed those cracks too. Even with these heavy rains we've had the last couple weeks they come back in a day or two. It's that awful black clay the sodding farms use. Trying to put down as much humic as I can justify. I've got some 13-13-13...I'll queue that up next. Probably need a lot more P than what I've been giving it. Where do you get your ammonium sulfate from?

I've dethached twice...probably too much as I can see bare soil (or black clay) in some parts with liquid aeration. And just put down my first app of sulfur two weeks ago. The "fast acting" kind...if that's such a thing with sulfur? Next app will be in July. Looks like that will be a never ending battle.


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## DuncanMcDonuts (May 5, 2019)

Have you aerated yet? I had a service core aerate last year and this year. It's a good way to remove the bad clay cores and replace with sand or compost. Sand for leveling and allowing water to get deeper into the soil; compost to improve the soil.

I've bought ammonium sulfate from both Ewing and SiteOne. A 50 lb bag is around $25 at each. If you search for a local feed/coop, you could probably get it for less than these bigger commercial chains.

I'm not too sure if there's any better grades of sulfur. I've used pastilles bought from Lowes. I've also heard of powder sulfur but it was too costly per pound. With all the limestone to buffer the basic pH, it'll take years to make any significant reduction in pH but any temporary improvement helps I guess. I'm planning my second application around July, too. The heat helps the microbiomes break it down from what I've read.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

If you want to make a rapid dent in the pH to allow the Sulfur to catch up, 1-2 lb of Citric Acid dissolved in water, sprayed, then watered in will do that.


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## mr_matalino (Mar 27, 2020)

@DuncanMcDonuts I'm going to aerate in the next few days. Just bought some compost to help with the thin spots. I really want to level but the cheapest I've found sand is about $35/ton (I need about 12 tons) and I've been spending more than I thought I would on products so far.

I bought a $20 20lb bag of pelletized sulfur from HD. The bag says it treats 10k sf which is exactly my lawn size so I figured why not. $40/year is worth testing out. But because of all the limestone, if you don't stay on top of the sulfur you quickly lose any benefit from what I understand. Some say the fight isn't even worth it.

@Greendoc I'll look into citric acid too!


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## AZLAWNGUY (Apr 25, 2020)

Mightyquinn said:


> For everyone on this thread that is concerned about their Bermuda not greening up or not thick enough, just pump the brakes and relax!!!!
> 
> It is WAY TOO early in the season right now to start worrying about your lawn. Just give it some time to warm up some more before you start throwing everything at it. Unless you are getting in the 80's everyday and dropping down into the mid 60's at night, your lawn is still waking up. Make sure your lawn is getting enough water also as that too will hold back your lawn from from greening up. I've seen Bermuda grow through several inches of mulch in a flower bed and through concrete and asphalt so if you think that little layer of thatch is going to stop it from growing, you are kidding yourself.
> 
> ...


I needed this too haha. I'm I AZ and we just had our first solid week of 80+ day 60+ night temps. I'm going to wait a couple weeks before I share my distress with my lawn haha


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## Allen69 (Apr 21, 2020)

Here in North Alabama we had a mild winter. I think the warmer temps helped the Bermuda start turning green earlier, but i have spots that are thin right now. I had to remind myself that it's still early and we've yet to see temps consistently in 70s and 80s. I have spots that look great and some average and some ehhh. I know I am ready for the warmer weather and see this thing get think and lush.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

mr_matalino said:


> Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond. It helps me stay motivated.
> 
> I spent last year with a spading fork probing for construction debris thinking that was the problem...especially in my problem areas. My wife thought I had gone crazy. Hauled out pretty big rocks and bricks below ground but no significant improvement. My local extension office has been MIA with the virus so I bought a DIY soil kit...not the most accurate but says I was still low on N and P and really high PH.
> 
> ...


I live in South Austin. Nice to meet ya!


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## Kjr_ace (9 mo ago)

How did everything turn out? What is happening with my lawn now looks about the same. Enjoyed reading all the perspectives and I am also in Kyle, TX.


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## AZLAWNGUY (Apr 25, 2020)

I'm guessing you haven't had enough warm temps yet. Bermuda likes it hot. Soil temps 65+


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## Wax0589 (Jun 11, 2020)

@Kjr_ace Seems like you still have a thick blanket of dead clipping sitting on top of your Bermuda.


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## Kjr_ace (9 mo ago)

It's pretty shallow. When i move the brown clippings I see hard dirt.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Those clippings will block sunlight and slow the turf down. I'd try to get them up if possible. Other than that, just mow low/often and give it food and water.


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## Kjr_ace (9 mo ago)

With a 8.1 ph, did yall apply sulphur?


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## Wax0589 (Jun 11, 2020)

Kjr_ace said:


> With a 8.1 ph, did yall apply sulphur?


I had applied elemental sulfur two or three years ago, but I did it in late fall when grass was going dormant. Last year I used dissolved ammonium sulfate every fourth week at 0.25 lbs. of N per 1,000 sqft. Also, check articles from homeguides on how to use elemental sulfur in your lawn.


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