# Marks journal. 2019 kbg reno



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

UK here.
Great to read your lawn stories and maintainance schedules and goals etc, this site has helped me a lot, thanks.
Heres my journal so far. Not a pretty read tbh, but this is simply to document whats up with my lawn here in Swansea, Wales, UK. My name is Mark, hello there!

Area.
130m2/1400 sqft lawn split into front section of 600sqft/55m2 and back section of 800sqft/75m2.

Climate.
Spring. 4-15 degrees Celcius/ 35-60 Farenheit
Summer. 15-28 degrees Celcius/60-83 Farenheit
Autumn. 24-8 degrees Celcius/76-45 Farenheit
Winter. 8-0 degrees Celcius/46-32 Farenheit

Soil type.
pH 5.8 June 2019
Medium loam.
Soil test results May 2019.

Current grass type. May 2019.
Fescue mix. Plenty of weeds. KBG RENO of back lawn planned fall 2019! :bandit:

Project that got me interested in lawns

Since being asked to join as a volunteer to a lawn maintainance team for a venue in Summer 2018, my interest in lawns has increased exponentially. After a drought summer in 2018, we needed to scarify out dead grass, fert and reseed the lawn. This fescue lawn did well to recover. I bought a scarifier, we scalped and raked out 10 jumbo bags (the ones that carry 800kg of decorative stone/sand etc) of thatch and dead grass, put down starter fert and seeded on 14th Sept 2018.
Heres some pics...











Current status of same lawn May 2019.



Here in UK we do not seem to have pre emergents available as far as I have seen...(Please tell me I'm wrong, I'd love to be able to get my hands on some)
So, as of June 2019, the weeds are being tackled by typical post emergent selectives.
There is self heal present, or heal all(?) that seems to be the toughest hanger onner. Other weeds are crumbling yay!
Edit. Sorted this with a 3 way 2-4D, MCPA and dicamba. Dicophar weedkiller.
No soil test has been done (will do next season) but we have a general npk fertiliser plan in place, including a humic, seaweed and phosphite liquid, liquid iron sulfate, also a 2019 fall nitrogen blitz its coming. I'll use this thread for updates on this project lawn.

Back to my ugly old lawn.

Tried much harder since 2017 to mow weekly at about 2 inches HOC, this seems to be as tall as I can go with this mix of weeds... Also started using Scotts/Verdone Weedol (fluroxypyr and clopyralid). This killed off quite a few weeds and improved the look to the extent that I was getting less earache from the boss, she had gotten more interested in spending time in the garden since the shrubs and vegetables were established well now. It has always been an enjoyable space to spend time, but now I'm getting interested in lawn maintainance…

April 2018. Front lawn coral pink bark acer.



Fall 2018. Overseed attempt.

This is why overseeds on a very poor lawn don't work very well...











Because it was an overseed, I hadn't killed the grass weeds, and so...

Spring 2019. The new grass does not out fully out compete the old grass. The weed grasses remain. I'm a rookie haha ardon: but I'm learning



So recently I've been buying some things to help out.

Product haul.
Maxwell myco one 7-2-8, organic with mycorrhiza
Maxwell myco two 4-6-12 4Mg, organic with mycorrhiza 
6X Organic pelleted chicken manure, 5-2-2
Urea 46-0-0
SOP 0-0-50
Iron sulfate
Triphos liquid seaweed, humic, phosphite.
Glyphosphate :wink:

I'm using my time this spring/summer before the reno to build the soil as much as possible. Any input here is appreciated. As above, I'm awaiting soil test results, I'll post them asap.

O yes, I managed to get 2500l of composted racing horse manure and spread it between the 2 veggie patches as a 4 inch mulch to make them a no dig veggie patch, and the rest over the lawn as a top dressing. The worms went crazy for it for about 2 weeks. The blackbirds also had a field day catching them. Was fun to watch. Worms can make more worms than birds can eat so I'm not worried about the population. 

I've been planning to do the back lawn reno for a while, its scheduled for this fall. I wasn't allowed to do my preferred first gly app this spring as WE want to use the green area for summer please. :lol: ok dear. I will be using a 85% KBG/15% Poa Supina blend.
Well, I haven't typed that much since idk when, so I'm going to leave it there for now. :smile:


----------



## testwerke (Apr 4, 2019)

Nice lawn! Looks much different than the gardens I'm used to seeing in London! Yours reminds me of the ones I've seen on the Cornish coast. Keep up the great work!


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Soil test results!


----------



## Powhatan (Dec 15, 2017)

Looking nice … Welcome to TLF :wave:


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Thanks Powhatan and testwerke. Lots to do yet  

Going to put lime down next, seems like I'll need about 45kg or 100lb of lime for my 75m2 or 800sqft reno area.
Hoping that'll get confirmed by someone in the soil fertility thread I posted


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

May as well ask while it crosses my mind...
KBG /smooth stalked meadow grass is not usually sold in the UK to public as a pure seed (mono stand?)
I saw others have succeeded but I've contacted and gotten nowhere with Germinal and DLF seed companies with regards to buying such a small amount of KBG seed that I wanted to use for my reno. One said try again in October, they might have some then :lol: 
Anyway, there is a 85% KBG and 15% poa supina blend available which is 4 times the amount that I require.
https://germinalamenity.com/a31-supreme-tees

1. Does anyone have any experience with poa supina?

2. Would anyone in the UK be interested in buying the 5kg I'd have left over if I went ahead and bought this?


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Based on soil test, and helpful info given in soil fertility thread, I carried out a few apps...

1. June 14th. Start to lower pH. 25kg lime over 150m² 
Slight mistake here in that I put dolomite lime down instead of calcitic. :roll: (slightly misleading description, however, my fault for buying it and I wasn't going to mail it back). I'm not worried, the application rate wasn't heavy. I believe the grass seed will germinate in September regardless, and the added magnesium won't cause problems. pH won't increase much I know but didn't want to go crazy with lime all at the surface only 2 months before the reno. Further lime apps planned next year after we are more established with the new grass. I should be fine getting established with a pH of around 6.

2. June 16th. 3kg of 0-0-50 over 150m². Or 23g/m². Or 4.6lbs/ksqft
Went slightly over what I wanted to put down because I spread it by hand  :bandit: I just chucked it down, send the spreader cops let's have a shootout :lol: 
The ground has slopes I have to deal with especially at the front, so a push spreader won't work, neither is the area big enough to warrant getting one. Maybe I need one of those small plastic thingamajig hand spreaders. Meh

Put some glyphosphate on a small area in front lawn that needs tidying. There are bluebells there that smother the grass each spring.

Cheerio


----------



## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

TheWhiteWizard said:


> The ground has slopes I have to deal with especially at the front, so a push spreader won't work, neither is the area big enough to warrant getting one. Maybe I need one of those small plastic thingamajig hand spreaders. Meh


They are definitely worth it IMHO. I use mine a lot. You can apply small amounts of seed, fertilizer, etc. in a small area evenly. They're great for giving small areas that extra little bit of TLC that's needed.


----------



## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

BTW, your yard looks beautiful! I love the balance between the gardens and lawn areas. You have diverse plantings with your layout, which really works nicely for an overall presentation. Welcome to TLF, Mark!


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Chris LI said:


> BTW, your yard looks beautiful! I love the balance between the gardens and lawn areas. You have diverse plantings with your layout, which really works nicely for an overall presentation. Welcome to TLF, Mark!


Hey Chris, that's real kind of you to say so, thanks!


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

OK, time for some recent pics...

Fescue blend I'm working with until reno Aug/Sept2019



I like this angle, I think I'll use this one to keep track of progress



Compost heap area before tidying with a bit of 3x3 and a few deck boards. #magichappenshere 



View from bedroom


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Bought a Scotts wizz spreader o yes!

Mid July. Thought it would be a good idea to scarify the reno area (back lawn) to clear some debris and dead grass from the surface area of this 50 year old grass/weed mix. Should have used the dethatcher attachment (thinner tines) rather than the blades because it probably wouldn't have been quite so invasive! Who cares, its being reno'd but anyway it left patchy grass with plenty of dead looking areas. Probably would have been better to apply the roundup/glykill to very well growing grass. Hey, I'm not stewing over it. Its recovered some.



July 18th. Put down 2nd soil ammendment app of sulphate of potash 0-0-50 at 4lbs/K or 20g/m2.
Urea app at 2lbs/K or 10g/m2. Trying to pop any green growth before a glyphosphate reno.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Glyphosphate went down this evening


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

My glyphosphate was a 36% I believe. 360g/L. https://www.pitchcare.com/shop/professional-weed-killers-for-japanese-knotweed/rosate-360-tf-5l-glyphosate.html
Doesn't seem to have had a thourough effect...









I put 50ml in a 5 litre pump sprayer and evenly coated 75m2 a week ago. Conversion is 1.7fl oz over 800sq ft.
I havn't scalped as its been so damn wet with rain! However, do you think its a normal kill? Have I applied too weak a solution? What should I do next?
edit: it didn't rain for 36 hours after application


----------



## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

@TheWhiteWizard Hello again. Glad to see a fellow Brit here.

Your glyphosphate rate looks almost exactly what I used. I used the Elixir Barclay Gallup stuff from amazon, same 360g/l but 24ml per 1 Litre to cover 40 square meters. Maybe your dilution rate is the issue? Probably safe to reapply again. Although I haven't seen my lawns in 8 days as am on holiday!

Will you turf cut afterwards?

Pitchcare are great, buy my supplies from there also. Andy is very helpful. Going to buy their topsoil for the renovation, they buy from Baileys of Norfolk. Worth looking into if you don't have a supplier.

Also, post some images of the pots when you can. I'm interested in the excess seeds if the colour of the grass looks good.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

RCUK said:


> @TheWhiteWizard Hello again. Glad to see a fellow Brit here.
> 
> Your glyphosphate rate looks almost exactly what I used. I used the Elixir Barclay Gallup stuff from amazon, same 360g/l but 24ml per 1 Litre to cover 40 square meters. Maybe your dilution rate is the issue? Probably safe to reapply again. Although I haven't seen my lawns in 8 days as am on holiday!


You are probably right about the dilution rate, don't know why I decided on 5 litres of water lol. I'll reapply tomorrow when we have a forecasted 24 hour+ period of dry weather with 50ml in 2 litres.

Managed to scalp and bag yesterday.
Also popped 5g/m2 or 1lb/M of urea down during this fallow stage trying to encourage anything that wants to pop its head up so I can kill it before seeding. I've noticed daisies, dandilions and dock weeds pushing that the old grass was obviously suppressing.







RCUK said:


> Will you turf cut afterwards?


No, just use a dethatcher to get the dead grass up and the soil exposed and roughed up a bit so I can get good seed to soil contact.



RCUK said:


> Also, post some images of the pots when you can. I'm interested in the excess seeds if the colour of the grass looks good.


Okey dokey! I grow plenty of things in pots but nothing has me more excited than these grass testers! :lol: 
Day 3


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

In other news, as in the project referred to in my first post, heres some recent pictures.
Weeds were seemingly tough to kill in this area. The Scotts Weedol clopyralid and fluroxipyr did ok with the dandylions but only 2 applications of Dicophar 2-4D and dicamba cleared up the heal all (prunela vulgaris)

A few apps of SOP and quite a bit of organic chicken manure have been put down. Urea is now being applied evry other week at a 5g/m² or 1lb/1000sqft rate.
There is not a lot of topsoil in this whole area. 
Moss is a problem in a few heavily compacted areas.
Ferrous sulphate applications at 4g/m² or 13oz/1000sqft blackened the moss (not the grass at all) and that was raked out after a week. More ferrous sulphate was applied 4 weeks later at 2g/m² or 6.5oz/1000sqft to suppress/kill remaining moss spores. The chewings fescue mix handled the iron rates just fine.
Edit: the ferrous sulphate used is 20% iron so that's 0.8g/m² or 2.6oz/M of iron for the first moss killing app followed by half that 4 weeks later.
A liquid humic/seaweed and phosphite is being sprayed monthly too.

Manual aeration with a garden fork over heavier compacted areas has been carried out this week.

Pics
14th June (Plenty of the self heal weed in the lawn!)



16th July



8th August
someone left it grow too long...


----------



## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

@TheWhiteWizard Hi Mark,

Just got back from a 10 day holiday and took a look at the Tetris KBG and Rye pots. Images below. The lone pot with darker leaves is my Tetris test. The others are a blend of Rye.

Thought you might want to see how they look after 10 days of neglect. The Tetris pot is now 3.5 weeks old and I trimmed a little off the top. Do you think it will darken with time? Also the Tetris seeds I have are more than a year old! I'm keen to see how your test looks.

*Tetris (Rubix) KBG*


*Tetris on the left. Rye on the right.* Surprised how badly the Rye looks already


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

RCUK said:


> @TheWhiteWizard Hi Mark,
> 
> Just got back from a 10 day holiday and took a look at the Tetris KBG and Rye pots. Images below. The lone pot with darker leaves is my Tetris test. The others are a blend of Rye.
> 
> Thought you might want to see how they look after 10 days of neglect. The Tetris pot is now 3.5 weeks old and I trimmed a little off the top. Do you think it will darken with time? Also the Tetris seeds I have are more than a year old! I'm keen to see how your test looks.


Hope your hols went well @RCUK!

I like how you managed to put the pots on a water retaining mat while you were away, clever!

I'm certainly no expert on how things should look at this stage but I reckon both the kbg and the rye look about right. The new grass you have in these pots haven't had enough time to mature into the adults which will get a fair bit darker. When I've filled in bare patches in my lawn in the past, the new grass looks lime green in comparison to the mature surrounding grass. The Galleon rye seed looks great on paper, hope you have success with it mate. 8.4 and 8.2 on the green ratings!

Maybe some of the other forum guys could have an input on their opinions?
You could possibly start a cool season thread about it if you wanted.

I have some babies after 5 days! I'm super excited lol
These are the 85% tetris kbg and 15% supreme poa supina blend


----------



## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

@TheWhiteWizard Nice! That germination rate is fast, did you pre soak them?

If the offer is still open about sharing seed (for a price ofc) pm me.

Unfortunately no galleon available from Germinal. The rye in the pictures is double, esquire and Berlioz from DLF. Not so keen on the colour tbh.

Looking forward to seeing your progress!


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Ooo that's easy! (That's my first pic posted straight off my phone haha)

Well, what a difference a day makes.

Seems like the first round of gly was put on grass that was a bit too long. Possibly 4-6 inches in places. Didn't get a great kill, however it sure did plenty of damage!
Yesterday was 2nd round of gly. I must've been walking a fair bit slower this time because I wanted to have a better kill than the first round. And so, I ended up putting 100ml this time versus 50ml the first time.
Mentioned above that I scalped after first gly app. My bad, I did not scalp, I had the rotary on the middle setting.
Managed to scalp today and dethatch, one whole day after 2nd round of gly.
(Question. Can the killed grass be added to the compost pile?
Edit: Yes.
I have damaged my grass before by top dressing with home made compost that contained 6 month old grass clippings that had been treated with clopyralid and fluroxypyr - as per the active ingredients in Weedol lawn weedkiller).

I finished with an application of ferrous sulphate at a moss killing rate of 4g/m², which is 0.8g/m² or 2.6oz/M of actual iron as the product used is 20% iron. Applied because there was moss lurking under the grass after I had used the dethatcher.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Take a look at the following 2 pics, please give me any input you like, there is a question below...
It was my first attempt at a double diamond cut but the rotary mower used has no striping kit. The HOC was lowered a notch, maybe from 3 1/2 inches to 3 inches.
Sorry for the lack of a close up picture, I must get used to taking those too.





We are coming out of summer now, the temps are currently around 18C or 64F.
I feel that there is dead grass in there causing a greyish brown hue. Is that a probability or are there other things I should be considering? 
Option 1. I'm thinking of taking the HOC down to 2 inches next cut and dethatching before an overseed.
Option 2. Fall blitz


----------



## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Between 3 and 2 inches there is 2.5 . Lawn looks a bit tired. Give it some N before going further down. Fast release should show if the grass likes it. And a stripping kit makes a huge difference. At 3 inches during the short Canadian summer.


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I don't know what it is like to endure a summer where you are, but I would say that hue is pretty common for fescue during the summer. If it is greyish, then the issue could be water, but what I see in your pictures looks more like either heat stress or possibly disease. It is very difficult to tell, so take that impression for what it's worth. There is some guesswork involved, even in my own yard where I can examine everything.
But in general, when there are spots like that, I think of a variety of causes: water, heat, disease, insects, compaction, sub-surface rocks, nutrient deficiency.

All of that being said, I think it is looking good for a fescue lawn that has been through a summer. And I like the mowing pattern.
If I am getting ready to overseed, I don't apply any nitrogen because I don't want too much growth from existing grass while my seed is germinating and trying to establish.

Again, I'm not familiar with your growing conditions; that's just how the lawn looks to me from where I'm growing :thumbup:


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Thank you @Babameca and @social port 
You both mentioned nutrient deficiencies as a possibility and I feel you are correct. I put 5g/m² of urea on it a couple of days ago and I will be able to look at this area later this evening to see how it's doing.
Also put 10g/m² of SOP 0-0-50.
We've had weather that's dry and hot, some days reaching 32C so after that particular cut it was probably dry and tired. 
There isn't much depth of soil here, maybe 4 to 6 inches so things like drying soil and nutrition deficiency happen quickly if that makes sense. There is only manual irrigation available.
I didn't want to go too heavy on the N because I'm still unsure what route to take next week.
I've come up with either
1. Shock and scalp to 2 inches, dethatch and overseed with some kbg I have or
2. Do the fall blitz and see if that helps this chewings, fine fescue mix


----------



## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@TheWhiteWizard Spent 3 months (July-September) in Aberdare in 2008. Had one sunny weekend in total... 32 is scorching hot for you guys.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Earlier this morning, getting ready for some destruction. Set on the deepest setting on my Einhell machine, solid plate attachment.



Hey sometimes you have to go electric



Happy with the seedbed, fluffed up the soil real nice





Levelled some low spots, the scarifier really helps with making the soil nice n fluffy so it can be raked and moved easily. Small concern about the soil nearer the conifers, it's more like compost which I'm hoping isn't too acidic for the seeds.
Applied Johnson's baby shampoo as a penetrant, in case of rainstorms dropping heavy rainfall, it's no substitute for a seed blanket but I'm hopeful for decent weather based on the forecast. Conditions are 18C and overcast for the next week.
Also applied Triphos - humic, kelp and phosphites.
3 days prior to the scarifying, applied 4kg organic bonemeal 3-9-0 for root development, that got watered in nicely by a heavy rainstorm 2 days ago.
Seed down tomorrow


----------



## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

Looks good Mark, as does your soil. I'm guessing that is your native soil?

How do you rate the Einhell? I've got a cheap Bosch verticutter which serves as my scarifier but it isn't a true scarifier.

Good luck with the seed.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

RCUK said:


> Looks good Mark, as does your soil. I'm guessing that is your native soil?
> 
> How do you rate the Einhell? I've got a cheap Bosch verticutter which serves as my scarifier but it isn't a true scarifier.
> 
> Good luck with the seed.


It is the native soil, yes.

The Einhell scarifier attachment worked brilliantly for me yesterday. It ripped through the soil with dead grass and spongy thatch layer up to an inch with ease. I'm very happy with the seedbed.
On previous occasions when I've used it with the thin needle-like tines dethatcher attachment, that also worked very well. There are pictures of the day I used it on the first post in this journal.
Seed is going down now. I'm later than hoped but life's been hectic :roll: :|


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

TheWhiteWizard said:


>


@social port 
This responded well to a small application of N.

Walked through the lawn and have decided on the fall N blitz. There's a few problem areas but there's enough grass to promote thickening. It's the slightly easier option too, rather than running the dethatcher and overseeding! There's also a few broadleafs popping up that can be spot treated along the way. I'll also be using my little bulb planter to take out a few rouge grasses and transplanting with some baby grass pots I have.
Time to throw it down and hope for the best :lol:


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@TheWhiteWizard, I'm glad that the grass is responding well to the nitrogen. One nice thing about fescue is that, even if it has disease and is stressed, there is some return to health once temps cool.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Seed down day!

Finally. Prep took longer than I thought. My area is so sloped  but it is what it is.
I'm very excited about my first attempt at kbg with 15% poa supina.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

7 days after seed down, guess what? Tiny amounts of germination wooo  That's relieved some anxiety. Temps this past week have been 15 to 19 C or about 60 to 68 F. Two periods of overnight rain at about .2 inches each. The rest I have irrigated 4 times a day for about 5 minutes each. It's germinated first in the area nearest the conifers, the area I had small concerns about because of the possibly acidic compost from the years of dead conifer tree material underneath the trees. Typical haha. A few weeds are popping up, at this stage I'm not too concerned, it's a reasonably small reno area, I'll be hand weeding as necessary.



The 3 inch test pots have had roots coming out of the base holes for almost a week. The ones I firmed very well at seeding are continuing to do considerably better than those I did not firm down.





7 days from seed down





Picking plenty of cabbage white butterfly eggs and caterpillars off the purple sprouting broccoli. Planted seed in April in pots, transferred to veggie patch in June, these are wonderful for eating for about 6 weeks in early spring. I really should net these but I'm short on time currently.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Also swopped out the scarifier attachment for the dethatcher. Ready for the front lawn to remove summer lawn debris and dead grass. Will probably also use it soon at the venue I am volunteering at, as we get into the fall blitz there.


----------



## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

@TheWhiteWizard Congratulations on the germination! Looking good mate.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Day 9 after seed down. 
Much more widespread germination now. Got my butt in gear and went to take some nighttime pics.





Saw about 200 slugs! Gross. :shock: Took pics but I won't post them. Dispatched quite a few but ended up spreading blue pellets. I guess the all day heavy rain brought them out, and seems like they feel like they can have a slug rave at night. Not on my lawn! Anyone else have this?


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Pick them up. Get some butter and make some escargot.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

g-man said:


> Pick them up. Get some butter and make some escargot.


 :lol: :lol: ewwww


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Day 16 after seed down.
I'm calling 10th September my widespread germination date. 
Today is 6 days post germination.









I have 25 little pots at the ready for plugging the more bare areas. Plus 7 more that are only starting to germinate today.



The area closest to the neighbors fence has barely germinated. It is much more shaded there. Add to that that I heavily added sharp sand there last month for leveling purposes. Maybe the sand has a certain salt content? 
I put more seed down on the 14th September there and lightly raked. 
Temps are 19C daytime and 13C lows in the night. 66F to 55F. Soil temps are 17C this week.
I don't know when to fertilise.
Edit:
I plan to fertilise tomorrow with Maxwell myco 2 (4-6-12 with mycorrhiza) at 30g/m2 to continue innoculating with mycorrhiza. Works out at 0.2lb/M of Nitrogen.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Ended up putting 40g/m² because I messed about adding some of the fert to borders and veggie patch on the way around with the spreader. Give or take a tiny fraction that's near enough to 0.25lb/M of nitrogen.
Sprayed Triphos - seaweed, humic and phosphite on most things that are growing in the garden, including grass babies.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

13 DAG

Lots of rain around this week. Still decent temps.



Hope to throw down Maxwell myco 1 (7-2-8 with mycorrhiza) tomorrow at 25g/m². 
Near enough to 0.25lb of N.

I have a pic of the Maxwell myco 2 I'm using.



I've plugged some bare areas with some tester pots and replaced the pots with some more kbg seeds. 6 pots with no fert added, 6 pots with the myco2 mycorrhiza fert at bag rate. Just out of interest, I'll be monitoring any differences in root development as mycorrhiza is supposed to form an additional web of roots.


----------



## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

How is the renovation going Mark?


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

@RCUK 
Thanks for asking, some days I'm happy, others not so much :?

Some of the cons.
The main thing that's really bugging me are the non germination areas I have. Partly down to over watering on my part, partly down to over hanging shrubs and bushes catching the rain water and drowning out the seed. It's really peed me off. I should have paid more attention to pruning out some of the branches, so it's my bad. 
Weed pressure is as expected seeing as we don't have access to pre-m. It's thankfully not a big area so I'm organic hand weeding as and when I can.
The weather has been really wet for us for the last 2 weeks which has scuppered overseeding. The ground is saturated. Temps are slowly falling.



Some of the pros.
I have some fully germinated areas and whilst being slow to do much past sprouting and pouting, it's there to stay so I'm hopeful for good growth in 2020. 
I've given the toddler grass 3 rounds of fert.
Day 7 after germination and day 15 I put down Maxwell Myco1 7-2-8 and myco2 4-6-12, it's mainly organic so I saw no problems with throwing it down at 0.25lbs/M of N.
Day 19 after germination, Sept 29th, I put down urea 46-0-0 at 6g per m². 0.5lb/M of N.

I will grab the laptop to continue editing and see if I can put up some comparison pics

Seed down 29 Aug
DAG 10 Sept

Side view
3rd Aug



14 Aug after glyphosphate



16 Aug. Mown down to 2inches, 2nd glyphosphate app



18 Aug. Scalped at lowest setting on mower.



Seed down 29th Aug, didn't take pics...

14 Sep



16 Sep



18 Sep



24 Sep



1st Oct


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Reverse side view

14 Sept



21 Sept



28 Sept


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Weed pressure



These must've come from underneath the conifer trees when I was scarifying in preparation to seed. Couldn't help myself drag some of the lovely soft compost from under those trees lol. Weed seeds were probably just sitting there dormant because the rain rarely penetrates through to provide moisture for germination. Didn't think at the time. To pull them out risking pulling grass out or to leave them for post emergent? I'm thinking wait until the ground dries a little before I walk over there to hand pull


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Thinking about one or two of my failed reno areas over the last few weeks, I'm thinking how to proceed.



In this picture, on the right, the fig tree has shaded and overhung the failed grass germination area. 
Plan A. Prune the fig tree back much more so that it remains tight to the fence behind it, thus making space for light to get to the ground where i can possibly spring seed. I do not like the sound of a spring seeding, I hear there are issues with that?
Plan B. Make the border deeper, maybe 3 feet from the fence. 
The ground against the fence line is terrible. I remember having to use a pick axe to remove dense stones the size of footballs, to make enough room to plant the fig tree.
Any ideas chaps?

Front left failed germination area, see pic above, I think I'll plug grass plants into there to help it fill?

Most borders after this reno need recutting sharp and tight, I will reuse that soil elsewhere.

On a side note, I do believe my weather is very similar to the states of Oregon and Washington so its good to follow along with you guys


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I looked back at your thread speed reading, what it the seed type?

You had grass here before, so I don't think it is the soil. The cold weather and timing would play a factor in germination. When do you normally get a frost? This is a month old grass and it could spread, but it will depend on your weather. One option is to drop 100% ryegrass in these areas to get more coverage.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

g-man said:


> I looked back at your thread speed reading, what it the seed type?
> 
> You had grass here before, so I don't think it is the soil. The cold weather and timing would play a factor in germination. When do you normally get a frost? This is a month old grass and it could spread, but it will depend on your weather. One option is to drop 100% ryegrass in these areas to get more coverage.


Thanks for the reply @g-man 
Seed is 85% kbg 15% poa supina. The UK homeowner seed market imo leaves a lot to be desired, there are no options available for 100%, unless you get lucky with a phone call to the big seed companies.

You are right about the timing of my reno, I will live and learn to seed a little earlier.
I don't understand how to work out average first frost, but we can go below 0C or 32F in December occasionally.

Regarding your suggestion of putting quick germination/lower temperature ryegrass for coverage, it could be an option for me, but what's the deal with leaving areas bare over winter? Is it a big problem?
Are you suggesting I cover for winter then kill and reseed in spring?


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

If 0C is in December, then you still have a growing period. The deal with bare areas is that weeds take advantage of them. Do you have more of the same seed to drop in those areas?


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

@g-man yes i do. I'm starting to feel hope return. 
Whats best method, rake lightly and use 3lbs/M rate? higher?

edit. 
The past 2 weeks has been soooo wet. Over seeding barely crossed my mind. Monday has high chance of 7 hours of rain, that is the worst period forecast for the week. Rest of week far less wet. Temps of 12-16C / 53-61F


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Ran out and grabbed some topsoil. This stuff has to be better than my native soil, looking at the color? shrugs



Sieved it onto the more bare areas and with some hope and a blessing, kbg seed might germinate there this year who knows?

I didn't put the seed just yet, the heavens just opened again :roll: 
Did manage to prune that fig tree back a bit tho.

Anyone suggest a seeding rate at this desperate late stage? 3lbs/M or more?


----------



## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

3 lbs/M sounds about right. I wouldn't go much heavier. I would save some seed, if possible, for a dormant seed at the end of the winter, to hit any bare/thin areas.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Chris LI said:


> 3 lbs/M sounds about right. I wouldn't go much heavier. I would save some seed, if possible, for a dormant seed at the end of the winter, to hit any bare/thin areas.


Thanks for the reply Chris. I have plenty of seed. Care to point me in the right direction for some info about dormant seeding?

I have put 3lbs/M of kbg seed on the sieved topsoil I bought, then sieved the other half on top. Just gotta hope at this stage, shrug


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

25 DAG

Spread 46-0-0 at 0.5lbs/M on the germinated areas.

Some rain around :| but temps are decent. ish 53-60F


----------



## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

Hey Mark, keep going you'll get there


----------



## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

TheWhiteWizard said:


> Thanks for the reply Chris. I have plenty of seed. Care to point me in the right direction for some info about dormant seeding?


Dormant seeding is typically done about a month before spring, around the end of February. The idea behind this particular timing is to not drop it too early, say January-early February, but before spring seeding. This will allow the seed to germinate when the weather allows, but not too early in case there's a warm spell with cold snap afterwards. I'm not sure if you get cold enough for good frost heaves, but the idea is to have the seed work it's way into the ground with the freeze/thaw cycle.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Chris LI said:


> TheWhiteWizard said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the reply Chris. I have plenty of seed. Care to point me in the right direction for some info about dormant seeding?
> ...


Oh I see, very interesting, I understand. Thanks for that. 
We often have inconsistent weather wintertime. It also sounds like you need to know exactly what you are doing.   :lol: 
However, I will bear it in mind in case my latest overseeding fails.


----------



## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Don't overthink it. It's kind of like an insurance policy to get your spring seed down extra early, so it has the best chance to develop a root system before the summer heat/drought hits. With your climate, it might not be as important, if your summers aren't as hot and dry. Kbg is slow to develop, so every little bit helps.


----------



## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

You could give Powhatan 's journal a read for extra notes. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7188
He did a dormant seeding this year.

Re your weeds: weed pressure in pouting bluegrass is the worst. I put on my socks (no shoes) to pull an enormous amount of grassy weeds from my midnight. No real damage.
But for your broadleaf problem...with that many, I think I would wait for herbicide. But obviously, that is a judgment-call.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

social port said:


> You could give Powhatan 's journal a read for extra notes. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7188
> He did a dormant seeding this year.
> 
> Re your weeds: weed pressure in pouting bluegrass is the worst. I put on my socks (no shoes) to pull an enormous amount of grassy weeds from my midnight. No real damage.
> But for your broadleaf problem...with that many, I think I would wait for herbicide. But obviously, that is a judgment-call.


Hey thanks @social port 
I spend a little while hand pulling these when I can, usually until my back is near break point lol, in the denser areas so that the kbg has enough room to grow well. No pain, no gain! It has been interesting to sense the root depth of the kbg, in the first few weeks, the grass was coming up too easily, now I just grab one of the broadleafs and it comes up without too much interference to the kbg. Avoids herbicides for now too. I'm lucky enough to be only caring for a smallish area this time.


----------



## LawnOrder (Sep 29, 2019)

TheWhiteWizard said:


> I'm lucky enough to be only caring for a smallish area this time.


There are no, "smallish areas," when you're weeding - or picking rocks after tilling.

Mark, your renovation's coming along brilliantly, and what a peaceful garden space you've created. I wouldn't mind sitting on that bench some time myself. Well done.
.


----------



## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

@TheWhiteWizard Hey Mark, how is the lawn reno going? Did you have luck with the overseed?

Are you seeing any yellowing of some grass blades? I'm not sure why but for the past week I'm seeing this across the two KBG areas whereas the Ryegrass lawn is not effected at all. The KBG growth is very slow also, I've given both the Ryegrass and KBG the same fertiliser and root ruckus treatments. I wonder if it is chlorosis given the amount of rain we have had and the age of the grass.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

LawnOrder said:


> There are no, "smallish areas," when you're weeding - or picking rocks after tilling.
> 
> Mark, your renovation's coming along brilliantly, and what a peaceful garden space you've created. I wouldn't mind sitting on that bench some time myself. Well done.
> .


That's very kind of you to say so, thank you. I'm always looking for better but sometimes you have to be content with what you have. It's a work in progress 

Some of my hand weeding efforts, just trying to limit the competition for light to the grass at this stage.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

@RCUK Hi Rakesh, I was just thinking to do an update and you beat me to it!
My goodness it has been wet! I've been in a form of lawn hibernation. Largely unable to do much due to saturated soil.  
I do not like to stand on it like this. I've been jumping over from one non lawn spot to another just to hand weed and take a photo or two. 
I notice on the weather forecast that you guys in London are getting plenty too, although it seems not quite as much as Wales. I will post a reply on your thread about your question.

Update to follow shortly.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Fertiliser apps. Going for half organic with mycorrhizia and half urea.
7 days after germination (DAG) 50g/m2 of Maxwell myco 4-6-12. 0.21lb/M of N.
18 DAG 40g/m2 of Maxwell myco 7-2-8. 0.25lb/M of N.
18 DAG 5g/m2 of urea 46-0-0. 0.4lb/M of N.
25 DAG 6g/m2 of urea 46-0-0. 0.5lb/M of N.
32 DAG 40g/m2 of Maxwell myco 7-2-8. 0.25lb/M of N.
32 DAG 3g/m2 of urea 46-0-0. 0.25lb/M of N.

20 DAG



35 DAG



20 DAG



35 DAG



20 DAG



35 DAG



Forecast for the week. Highs of 15C/59F, lows of 8C/46F. How many more inches of rain you going to throw at us? :shock:



Probability of more kbg germination this year - low. Constant wetness is rotting new seed.
Will monitor any more kbg germination going forward and once we know where we stand with that, decide on how much more width to add to the border areas. The fence line trees and shrubs certainly need more, they have grown plenty since they have been put in and their current size overhangs and shades the ground too much for good grass.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Picture summary of where I volunteer.

September 2018. Scarify and overseed.












April 2019. 




May 2019. 
10-8-4, 4Fe at 1lb/M of N.
Weedol (clopyralid and fluroxypyr) for weeds.




June 2019.
Colour change. May fert kicking in.
Vitax 6X chicken manure attempt to stimulate bios.
Dicophar dicamba, 2-4D, MCPA weed treatment.


July 2019.
Summer heat stress. 
SOP 0-0-50 at 20g/m² or 4lbs/M
Triphos foliar seaweed and humic


Sorted irrigation. 
Late July 10-8-4 4Fe, urea 46-0-0. Total 0.5lb/M

August 2019.
Irrigation helping now.
0.5lb/M of N via urea


September 2019.
Experiment. Lower HOC (bad idea) and mow double diamonds, with no striping kit lol. At least I know how to do that pattern now. :roll: 
Pressure washed the path.




0.5lb/M of N via urea
Discovered a way better angle to take photos :lol: 

Maybe these guys need a edging tool...I take mine sometimes but not every time.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

I'm thinking to put another 0.25lb/M of urea on thursday before the rain, 44th DAG. Temps are still decent.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Mowed yesterday at 1.5in.
Sprayed iron sulphate today at 3oz/M, which is a touch less than 1g/m². 
Not surprisingly considering the amount of rain we've had over the last few weeks, there is some yellowing in a few areas which I believe is chlorosis. Sprayed the iron sulphate and I'll monitor it going forward.
Plan on another urea app of .25lb/M tomorrow.

Yellowing



Bishop of Llandaff dahlias


----------



## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

looking good. I had some yellowing in my reno, never quite figured it out. Most areas grew out of it. I have one area near the driveway that is still yellow. I did put DiseaseX down, not sure if it really helped


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Mrotatori said:


> looking good. I had some yellowing in my reno, never quite figured it out. Most areas grew out of it. I have one area near the driveway that is still yellow. I did put DiseaseX down, not sure if it really helped


Thanks!
And thats interesting about your experience too. I'm kind of guessing it will be the same with me, that the yellowing will grow out, especially if the rain calms down, which thankfully it has for at least the last 5 days! Ideally I want to avoid fungicides at this stage.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

I'm seeing new thin blades of grass popping up. I'm hoping it's the KBG spreading. It's 50 days after germination. Any kbg veterans have a look and confirm or otherwise please?


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

I would love to mow this but the weather isn't cooperating for long enough. I've been mowing at 1.25" HOC whenever I can. It's hit 2" today.
Temps have been 50 to 57F or 10 to 14C. Well, I went ahead and put some urea down at 0.25/M of N. Ten day forecast shows us hitting 5C or 41F in ten days so the decline in temperature seems steady enough to go for it. This kbg is new to me but it seems like it's hardening off/maturing a little. I feel like it can handle this little bit more N.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Well we got battered last night. Tuna can rain gauge overflowed, so more than an inch and a half overnight.



Soil is saturated. 
Going forward, re-edging the borders are my priority, will have to wait until we dry up a bit.
I'll skip on dormant seeding, knowing my luck any seed I put down in less than ideal conditions will be wasted. I've reseeded failed germination areas twice already, both washouts. 
Current plan is to bring in 1000kg of fertile Norfolk topsoil from Pitchcare in the spring for topdressing, levelling and seedbed prep.
Need to decide when to apply next lime application, based on my soil test showing 5.8 in June. I've already applied a 55lb bag over 1600sqft on June 14th.
I feel maybe very soon is an option. I have a 55lb bag of calcitic lime ready to go.


----------



## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

Used the same soil for my renovation Mark. Delivery is spot on and quick. However I had to sieve a lot of small stones out, like hundreds. Also the amount of weeds that grew was a surprise, weed killer can take care of this however.


----------



## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

IMHO, I wouldn't completely pull the plug on a dormant seed, but maybe go lightly, to not waste too much seed. If you can get it to pop earlier than some of the weeds, it can better outcompete them. As I mentioned in my reply to the post in my journal, the shady areas along the edges may have better germination before the spring foliage shades them out. Also, it may help to stabilize the area before heavy spring rains cause washouts. If you have any snow cover in your area, it can help as an insulator, moisture source and keep the birds from eating it.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Mowed today at 1.5" HOC. There was a hot yellow sphere in the sky today, it was wonderous.

42 DAG


50 DAG


58 DAG


You know what, even the 10 day forecast is ok! A low of 2C/36F tonight, average of 8C/46F all week and getting low at 5C/41F in ten days. Soil temps at 10C/50F.


All the leaves have now dropped off the fig and Japanese maple trees. 
I am very happy with the colour of the lawn. I could possibly spray iron sulphate with urea this week, hmm.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Calcitic lime at 160g/m² or 33lbs/M on non reno area, as per soil test. Plan on renovating this area next year. Will be interesting to see if the lime has any visual effect on this expendable grass, I've not really limed much before. Too dark for photos by the time I finished so will snap a few tomorrow to compare as time goes on.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Yesterday's limed area, next year's reno.
Plan to cut back the arbutus unedo/ wild strawberry tree on the corner to 2 feet so that won't shade the grass seed. Shame because this is one of my favourite trees in the garden, it's currently full of wild strawberries which have come alongside the abundant white flowers. It'll take 2 years to fruit again.
It did show plenty of leaf spot this year, so chopping it hopefully rids it of the fungus.


I'll also winter prune the coral bark maple to shape.



It's a horrible shaped area, on a slope too. I plan to level as best I can, starting at the nearest point in the next picture, around past the wild strawberry on the corner and through the coral maple.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Mowed today at 1.5". Then applied calcitic lime at 166g/m² or 33lbs/M. The lime I put on the front, non-reno area three weeks ago has shown no signs of yellowing of the grass so I went for it on the reno area. Looking forward to next springs soil test.
Felt good to get out there and work, 2 weeks of man flu hasn't been a joke.



Forecast for the week is a steady 9C with only a brief shower on Friday. Soil temps at 10C/50F.



Got myself a pick axe to dig the fig tree border side, it's full of heavy stone... Want to get those potted plants in the ground and winter prune the fruit trees/bushes and star magnolia.


----------



## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

It looks like it filled in a little from the 58 DAG photo. Hopefully, by next spring you will see some more improvement. Kbg has a way of slowly filling in, when you least expect it. With spoonfeeding, it definitely helps accelerate the process. Some of those pots you grew should come in handy for the bare areas. I saw that you had a bulb planter, too. It might be slightly large in diameter to harvest plugs from good areas in the spring for the bare areas, but it's worth a try. The Pro Plugger is a better option with a smaller diameter, if you can get your hands on one. I never had a chance to use mine this year, but will do so in the spring.


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Temps steady for the last month pretty much 10C/50F minimal fluctuation.
Minimal fluctuation in the amount of rain too :/ 
No chance of mowing, which has allowed the grass to grow long enough for me to spot and identify lots of poa annua. Membranous ligule, seed heads a plenty. It's easier to spot the more time you spend pulling it out. Poa T in a few places too.
Ground is very soft which has made it easy to pull masses of it out, 3 bucket loads today, 1 last week, probably around 3 left.
It's left the ground uneven and I will top dress with soil when I've finished.


----------



## mowww (Jan 16, 2018)

@TheWhiteWizard Great photo


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Mowed 2 days ago at 1.5 inch.



Close up at one of the worst times of year to do so. Rain, cold. Poor soil. Multiple issues if you look carefully, go ahead and tell me what you see, please, because I'd like to improve whatever I can and I'm learning as much as I can. It's been extremely wet past few months, some leaves close to the ground are brown, is that called melting out?

@bigbew The kbg is the darker blade and the poa supina is the slightly lighter stoloniferous grass plant. 
Unintentionally, there is poa trivialis in there with a spikey tip.



It's not too bad imo, considering we are in February, but I'm going to get fussier come spring time 😅😅


----------



## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Looks good. Looks to me like the Supina has become the dominant grass in there even though it was only 15% seed? Or am I looking at it wrong?


----------



## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

bigbew said:


> Looks good. Looks to me like the Supina has become the dominant grass in there even though it was only 15% seed? Or am I looking at it wrong?


There's plenty of supina in there, not sure if it's dominant just yet. Conditions over winter have favoured the supina over the kbg so it does look like more than 15% currently. It's survived constant wetness, has no bare patches and looks a thousand times better than the fescue front lawn. :thumbup: 
Will monitor going forward.

2020 journal now started.


----------



## MMM (Sep 20, 2018)

I am very tempted to renovate my lawn, is mixing TTTF with KBG/Supina a good idea?
My lawn is facing north east and the soil is almost all clay


----------

