# Questions about scalping



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

I think I found a reel mower (John Deere 220c 2008 year, with groomer, and grass catcher) for cheap and want to mow lower on my Tifway 419.

So questions are:

Is it to late in the year to scalp? I am currently maintaining at 2".

What is the rule of thumb of how low I should scalp compared to my maintain HoC? For example I know that Bermuda will have the brown spots on the lower part of stem so you have to cut it slightly lower than where you want to maintain. So if I want to maintain at 1" how low should I scalp?

Should I be maintaining at a slightly higher HoC going into the fall?

I know that you aren't supposed to take off more than 1/3 of the blade each time you mow. Does that hold true if you are going to purposefully scalp?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I don't think it's too late in the year to scalp.

I would just play your scalp/maintain HOC by ear. Every lawn is a little different.

I wouldn't worry about raising HOC going into fall.

Ignore the "1/3 rule" when scalping.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Ware said:


> I don't think it's too late in the year to scalp.
> 
> I would just play your scalp/maintain HOC by ear. Every lawn is a little different.
> 
> ...


Thanks ware. How do you really play the HoC by ear? So for example if I scalp at say .9in and I maintain at 1" and I feel that I'm seeing still seeing a lot of brown and feel it's still looking scalped every time I mow, do i go and rescalp it at .8in and then continue mowing at 1"?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I would scalp as low as you can go with a rotary mower and bag the clippings. Then start taking it down about 0.1" at a time with the reel mower, catching the clippings. You will eventually get to a point where you don't think you should go any lower because the reel would be getting into the dirt - this height will ultimately depend on how smooth your lawn is. Because you have been maintaining with a rotary mower at 2", the turf will be very thin at whatever height you end up at. That said, you could continue mowing at that height until it fills in, or raise it slightly - it's really up to you and how it looks. If you are scalping, raise the HOC. If it looks good, stay where you are. The greens mower is almost infinitely adjustable within its HOC range, so you have a lot of options. I wouldn't paint yourself into a corner by saying "I need to scalp at _ and then maintain at _." Make sense?


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Thanks. That does make sense for the most part.

So cut it as low as my rotary mower will go (which will probably be around 1.5"), then cut with my reel at 1" (which is about as high as it will go), then move it down .1" until i feel comfortable (which will probably be near the 1" mark) I bet.

This is where my questions come in. 
My concern is that right now based on the feedback I cut at 1.5" and then started maintaining at 2" people said it still looks scalped. I just don't understand how mowing at 1.5" and then I move up to 2" and it still looks scalped in certain locations and how mowing down to .9 inch with the reel, where it will it's all brown, and then when it starts to green up some areas wouldn't exhibit the same issue potentially.

the "you won't know" until it all stabilizes (greens up mostly) and you have random comtinual scalping spots. Yeah you could raise the HoC but I won't have a lot of latitude between how low I can go and keeping moving my HoC up with the reel mower. What can you do in this situation? Why wouldn't I have this issue with the reel with less of a cut height difference?

https://imgur.com/a/6vvdY

This is the part I'm explaining about. First two pictures are of the scalped parts. the 3rd is a really nice green spot that's 10 feet away, where I cut it the same exact height. So in this scenario, I can raise my mower height some but I want it lower like the green section.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

If you can mow with a rotary at 1.5" you won't have a problem going under 1" with a greens mower. I'm bettering you could go close to .5" with the JD. I would take it down as far as possible then start maintaining 1/4" higher than your scalp height.

Once you get too low the mower might not throw up dirt but it will feel like it's getting stuck where the bedknife is getting high centered.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

J_nick said:


> If you can mow with a rotary at 1.5" you won't have a problem going under 1" with a greens mower. I'm bettering you could go close to .5" with the JD. I would take it down as far as possible then start maintaining 1/4" higher than your scalp height.
> 
> Once you get too low the mower might not throw up dirt but it will feel like it's getting stuck where the bedknife is getting high centered.


Thanks for the rely and information. As of right now I plan on maintaining at 1" or so. Makes me nervous cutting it lower it. I'm sure as I get more comfortable I'll want to cut it lower. I just want it to be all consistently green at some HoC and not this splotchy look that I have now.

Basically what you mentioned is the same as the other poster but slightly more dramatic (1/4" vs .1") it sounds like.

But the part that is still not making sense is why would it be that if I cut at 1.5" and then let it go to 2" it still looks scalped?


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

What was your mowing frequency when mixing at 2"?

The reason I say 1/4" is just to make sure you get it below the HOC you want to maintain it at. It would suck to scalp then try to maintain a height and still see brown in the canopy where you would have to raise HOC even more.


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

The plants starts growing horizontally instead of vertically once you mow it shorter and more often. You should be fine mowing at 1" if you scalp it below 3/4". Trust us. Once you scalp and set your mower at 1", we'll tackle future issues if any.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

J_nick said:


> What was your mowing frequency when mixing at 2"?
> 
> The reason I say 1/4" is just to make sure you get it below the HOC you want to maintain it at. It would suck to scalp then try to maintain a height and still see brown in the canopy where you would have to raise HOC even more.


I was cutting every 3 or 4 days at 2" for about a month. I posted a picture about it and everyone seems to think it was scalping. I mowed at 1.5", then mowed 3 days later at 2" (didn't need it) then mowed again 4 days later and that is what I still have. Brown/green mess.



http://imgur.com/q3x82


Top 2 pictures are from July 15th bottom 2 are from 22nd of July.

I'm watering once a week at 1" a week (i already did an audit, twice in that area in fact) and irrigation system is putting out 1" every 30 min or so.

So I'm still skeptical it's all due to scalping. I think some of it might be due to heat stress and lack of watering as well. I'm trying not to do to many things at one time either but I personally don't think at this point in time that it's just 1 thing.


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

Ah, you're the one who made the video! Great videos by the way. Should help us help you get your lawn in top shape. Did you say how old the sod was?


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

The "scalped" areas have to form new crowns from which the shoots will appear. Now that you have a greens mower, I would scalp as low as you can, dethatch if you can, and fertilize at 1 lb nitrogen/K (if you haven't fertilized in the last two weeks). The grass will require more water to recover as well, so you will need to make sure you are monitoring closely.

-edit- it could also be your rotary. I have an area about 4000sf that was previously nothing but Dallisgrass. I have recovered the area and the bermuda is doing well. I cut it with a rotary at 1.75" EVERY time I cut with a reel at .75 and the rotary cut bermuda still looks slightly scalped with each cut.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Iriasj2009 said:


> Ah, you're the one who made the video! Great videos by the way. Should help us help you get your lawn in top shape. Did you say how old the sod was?


Yup that was me. I think I mentioned it in the thread, but the sod itself is about 10 months old now. Someone illuded to the fact that I might not have enough P in the fertilization that Waynes (local trugreen type company) is doing. i checked with them and they aren't doing hardly any P (25-2-10) and didn't tell me what rate they are applying it. I just ordered me a fertilizer spreaders to supliment the lack of P that the soil sample is telling me I need.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Spammage said:


> The "scalped" areas have to form new crowns from which the shoots will appear. Now that you have a greens mower, I would scalp as low as you can, dethatch if you can, and fertilize at 1 lb nitrogen/K (if you haven't fertilized in the last two weeks). The grass will require more water to recover as well, so you will need to make sure you are monitoring closely.
> 
> -edit- it could also be your rotary. I have an area about 4000sf that was previously nothing but Dallisgrass. I have recovered the area and the bermuda is doing well. I cut it with a rotary at 1.75" EVERY time I cut with a reel at .75 and the rotary cut bermuda still looks slightly scalped with each cut.


Well when I think of "scalped" I originally was thinking hitting dirt. However, it seems that scalping is really just taking the grass blade below the green part. In these areas I'm no where near hitting dirt. It's just thin in those areas and there are a lot of grass blades/stalks where the entire thing is brown. So when I cut it lower this brown stalks are still there. They are just slightly shorter. I'll see if I can get a better picture of it.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

That is what I was referring to. The brown stalk has a crown at the tip where the shoots grow. If you cut that off the grass will have to start with a new growth point. That process takes a little time, and if you were "scalping" the areas in question repeatedly before lowering the height of cut, it is possible that the grass depleted most or all of its carbohydrate reserves. Those stalks may never come back, but with proper cultural practices the grass will fill in and you will never know the difference.


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Ware said:


> I would scalp as low as you can go with a rotary mower and bag the clippings. Then start taking it down about 0.1" at a time with the reel mower, catching the clippings. You will eventually get to a point where you don't think you should go any lower because the reel would be getting into the dirt - this height will ultimately depend on how smooth your lawn is.





J_nick said:


> If you can mow with a rotary at 1.5" you won't have a problem going under 1" with a greens mower. I'm bettering you could go close to .5" with the JD. I would take it down as far as possible then start maintaining 1/4" higher than your scalp height.





Spammage said:


> The "scalped" areas have to form new crowns from which the shoots will appear. Now that you have a greens mower, I would scalp as low as you can, dethatch if you can, and fertilize at 1 lb nitrogen/K (if you haven't fertilized in the last two weeks). The grass will require more water to recover as well, so you will need to make sure you are monitoring closely.


+1 to all of this.

I did mid-season scalp last year around this time. It's going to be brutal, so give yourself a few days to get it all completed. If this is your first time using a greens mower then it's going to beat you up pretty good, take your time! Don't get close to anything until you get a google feel of the mower. Buy a large bottle of Advil. Take some pictures for us!


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

Redtenchu said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> > I would scalp as low as you can go with a rotary mower and bag the clippings. Then start taking it down about 0.1" at a time with the reel mower, catching the clippings. You will eventually get to a point where you don't think you should go any lower because the reel would be getting into the dirt - this height will ultimately depend on how smooth your lawn is.
> ...


Pictures will be included . I assume by brutal you mean for the heat? If so then yeah, this is going to suck. I'll probably have to do it at night after work. My neighbors are going to be pissed. For multiple reasons. The first being that my yard going to look like complete shit after I scalp. Then they going to be so pissed my yard looks so much better than theirs :-D.

What makes the reel mower hard to use? Is it just having to yank and pull on it to get it to turn?


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## Iriasj2009 (Feb 15, 2017)

A greensmower is just heavier than a residential reel like a trucut and mcclane. It's hard to maneuver around trees etc if it's your first time using it and it will take some practice.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Agree. Since you can't easily pick it up and move it, I think it's mostly about learning to set yourself up for efficient turns. It's not bad though.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Iriasj2009 said:


> A greensmower is just heavier than a residential reel like a trucut and mcclane. It's hard to maneuver around trees etc if it's your first time using it and it will take some practice.


+1, I would say a my TruCut maneuvers like a sports car and the JD220B is more like a tank. It's my second season with the greens mower and I'm comfortable with it now. The first few times I used it last year was a learning experience, just hold on tight and point it in the right direction.


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