# Grass seed for Sandy/shady area



## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I did some grading in a back yard for a friend today. The area is shady and sandy. He's asking me about helping him get some grass established, and he certainly needs to or he's going to have some erosion issues.

I feel like it's probably a good candidate for centipede or Bermuda (if the shade isn't too severe) but I would like to get something establishing sooner than later. I know those won't be doing any germinating until spring.

I've thrown out some Rye in similar spots at home and it grows well despite the sand and the shade. However, I doubt he's going to want to spend the money on a grass that'll be so short lived.

I'm wondering about creeping red fescue. Will it germinate in cooler temperatures? It may be too late for even rye now, I don't know. It has been warm enough lately, but we seem to be turning a corner and finally getting colder weather here in SC.

I doubt I can talk him into sod.

Pictured is the area, if you can tell anything useful from a photo.







The rye I have germinating and growing steady at home over the past month maybe has me overly optimistic we can get something going. Maybe I need to talk him into letting me put down some mat and straw to help reduce erosion until spring.


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## 0318 (Dec 7, 2021)

I overseeded my lawn last year with CRF, soil temps were about 55F and I've head germination after 14 days. Also on sandy soil, so very similair to your friends.

What is your soil temp now?

Comming spring I will most likely overseed again with CRF so I'm following this!
Hopefully some more experienced people can help further


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Use a Tall Fescue/fine fescue mix for that area. Specifically, strong Creeping red and/or Chewings fine fescue, paired with a blend of low-growing or dwarf TTTF (which have fairly fine blades and good shade performance). 80/20 to 70/30 TTTF/FF ratios would probably work well.

You'll need to wait a month or so to seed, though. No way around that. If you absolutely need something before that to stabilize soil, you can try Perennial Ryegrass at around 3 lbs per thousand now and then overseed in early March or so with the Fescue mix, but you'd have to keep that Ryegrass seeding rate low or the Fescue seed will not take. Also, no guarantee it'll germinate for 3-5 weeks due to current temps anyway, so might not be worth the gamble. If you can get clean annual Ryegrass seed (try Hogan for that), you can try that, but it'll need to be sprayed out before it makes seedheads in Spring, prior to final seeding.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

They still have not wanted any seed, and the area isn't in too bad o'shape. Few minutes with the rake on my tractor and a drag it'll be pretty good. We have 20 degree temps tonight and then it's warm weather in the foreseeable forecast after that. I'll try to talk them into letting me broadcast a fescue mix soon. I am fairly certain they aren't going to do much about watering all of it, so I'm afraid it won't do too well if mother nature doesn't help us out.

Where does one order a specific mix of seen like that?


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## VALawnNoob (Jun 9, 2020)

Considering you are in SC I'm surprised you are thinking about CRF or any FF. I don't see how they will survive the heat down there during the summer. Even if they go dormant, it is a lot of yellow ugly grass for a big part of the season.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

VALawnNoob said:


> Considering you are in SC I'm surprised you are thinking about CRF or any FF. I don't see how they will survive the heat down there during the summer. Even if they go dormant, it is a lot of yellow ugly grass for a big part of the season.


It should work fine in shade. Doesn't matter if it's 100 degrees in the sun in Summer; it will more or less work in shade if taken care of correctly.

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@mwemaxxowner, just look for a few good cultivars and put it down to create the proper blend. Since TTTF is 8-10 lbs per thousand square feet, use 5-7 lbs per thousand of it, and then seed about 2 lbs per thousand of the fine Fescues on top of it.

Look for TTTF cultivars like "Rowdy" and/or "Titanium". These rank well in shade, but can also tolerate heat.

For the fine fescue: Look for new "Strong Creeping Red" Fescue cultivars like "Chantilly" or similar. These are much more heat tolerant than the previous generation. They also offer some self repair ability, unlike most other fescues. There are also some good Chewings Fescue options. Finally, if heat and drought tolerance is the major concern and you can sacrifice some shade tolerance, you can go for Hard Fescue, but it's more expensive. These are about equal to Tall Fescue in heat tolerance. Some good hard cultivars are "Jetty", "Viking H20", or "Gladiator".

Any cool season grass will need to be irrigated regularly in the absence of rain during germination (and to a smaller degree for the entire year after establishment). But these Fescues are worth it rather than throwing down Ryegrass seed twice a year every single year...they will last long term once established. Fine fescue has a bad reputation because previous generations frankly were horrible, but the newest ones are actually usable. And nothing beats it for shade tolerance. Just don't make the mistake of going 100% fine fescue or of buying old, subpar varieties.

The Hogan Company and United Seeds are good sources for some of the above mentioned cultivars, or similar ones. Bob Hogan himself often advises mixing Turf Type Tall and premium Fine Fescues, by the way. Shade is probably the only legit place these cool season Fescue grasses have as permanent turf in much of SC.

Also, less fertilizer for this in the shade. 3-3.5 lbs N in the establishment year, and then less than 3 lbs in subsequent years. Some overseeding might still be needed every so often. Too much N or too high a seeding rate will wreck a shady lawn. Likewise, it shouldn't be mowed low. And warm season grass herbicides can't be used, of course.

Good luck and let me know how it goes.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

VALawnNoob said:


> Considering you are in SC I'm surprised you are thinking about CRF or any FF. I don't see how they will survive the heat down there during the summer. Even if they go dormant, it is a lot of yellow ugly grass for a big part of the season.


There are a lot of tall fescue lawns around here. Not where we have sand, but most lawns are fescue once you get away from our sandy areas. I've never seen anybody use other fescues though.


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## VALawnNoob (Jun 9, 2020)

mwemaxxowner said:


> VALawnNoob said:
> 
> 
> > Considering you are in SC I'm surprised you are thinking about CRF or any FF. I don't see how they will survive the heat down there during the summer. Even if they go dormant, it is a lot of yellow ugly grass for a big part of the season.
> ...


Tall fescues are fine. I was referring to CRF or any FF. I am in VA and quite a bit above you in the transition zone. Yet each summer my FF and shade mix goes dormant in the heat of summer despite irrigation. They stick out like a sore thumb. Also remember that a shady area isn't always in shade. You are likely to get spots of yellow patches from the melt out. Again, I can only speak from experience in VA - I just find it hard to believe those in SC wouldn't see the same if they are close to the situation that I am in.


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## JERSEY (Sep 9, 2018)

thats the type of sand I have here in NJ. we are way cooler...but we get 100f in july-aug no nutrients...no moisture holding.

might have to go with a warm season grass.....bermuda-zoysia....

Im a cool season turf guy since I am up in NJ...and I find KYB and tall fescue are hearty and nice...and do tolerate shade. of course they grow better in sun, but I am doing it in the shade too.

best of luck


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I understand that shade doesn't mean always in shade, but this is quite shady often. Will Bermuda or zoysia do very well there? I have centipede and it struggles in the areas where I have shade.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

I would go with a tall fescue it does good enough in the shade


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

Will talk fescue also do okay in this sort of sand? I've never sown any fescue into sand. Or anything at all really. This sandy soil is new to me.


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