# Building new system, very small looking for advice



## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

The first photo gives you an idea of the lawn measurements. It's going to be a small lawn as you cans see so I am having trouble designing a system that won't overspray onto our soon to be new concrete patio and the current glass wall. Anyone have experience in tight spaces like this with irrigation? I'm putting in tiftuf in the green areas on the map. The top of the map there is a 3' wide spot that's giving me the most trouble. The verticle run of the lawn is at 5.5'. On either side is a house or wall. See pics below. Basically I don't want over spray and would love a pop up system or open to ideas.


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

You could use subsurface drip.


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

This sounds interesting! Any threads on here with instructions/ how to? Any pros/cons? I have so many questions!


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

I used some subsurface drip for a flower bed, b/c I wanted it under the mulch I went with something rated for subsurface. Rainbird and Hunter offer products, I'm sure others. I think the main pro is being able to irrigate small irregularly shaped areas (why you are interested). Also a lot less water gets evaporated into the atmosphere, not as much of a factor for your small yard. The main cons I would assume is you are more likely to damage the system (digging, aerating, etc...), and also you can't use your irrigation system to water anything in. Might be an issue if you are trying to seed an area, or watering in herbicides, pesticides, or fertilizer. But with such a small area this might not be a big problem for you (hand watering that stuff in when required seems pretty easy). You could also only use the subsurface for your most irregular or small areas and use sprays for the rest.

Here's a thread where they talk about it, but not a whole lot of 'how-to' in it. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11313

Look at the Rainbird XFS and Hunter ECO products:
https://www.rainbird.com/products/xfs-subsurface-dripline-copper-shieldtm-technology
https://www.hunterindustries.com/product-line/micro%20irrigation


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

Thanks @TSGarp007 ill look into these links, i isn't find much on it when I googled it but may have not been using the correct terminology


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

Hunters Ecomat looks pretty interesting! I'm curious if it actually works. Also how would I calculate the appropriate amount of water for my soon to be tiftuf? I know it's a rough rule of 1" a week for traditional sprinklers but how does that translate into this? Here's the flow rates.


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

So after contacting a distributor it's 550 and change for a 32"x100' roll that's not including any fitting valves etc. so if I installed this system would I have to hand water my new sod 3 times daily?


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

I've never used it, but my guess is you shouldn't have to hand water. Maybe contact Hunter and make sure your install meets their product usage.I guess the roots will just grow right through the mat? That must be the case...

There are calculators that help you do the math to figure out the precip rate. Hunter may have one. Rainbird does. But a generic one should work, like

http://irrigation.wsu.edu/Content/Calculators/Drip/Drip-Line-Rate.php


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

The mat is placed 4-6" under the turf and can be used for turf, shrubs etc.


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

Well then I'm changing my answer, I think you will have to manually water the sod until established. Are you thinking of using this on all of your yard or just some spots? You could actually install a zone of spray heads just for this purpose. Once the roots are to your eco-mat you wouldn't use the zone anymore. Not a big deal with over spray since it's not the primary irrigation method.

Has anyone on here actually used this product?


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

If I go this rout I would prob do the whole lawn since it's so small. I will use one or the other but scared to use the ecomat cuz who knows if it actually works! Will the roots actually reach the water, what if I do it to shallow and cause fungus. I'm leaning towards traditional watering means but easily persuaded lol. If someone on here said they use it with success I prob would. Easier instal also. The smallest pop up radius I found was from hunter with just under 4'-12'.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Another option would be MP rotators or even sprays. The MP rotator strips throw 4 feet at 30 PSI (there is a 30 PSI regulated body you can use) and can be reduced 25%. Hunter also makes short radius spray heads at 2, 4 and 6 feet. Rain Bird makes square pattern nozzles that throw 2.5-4.5 feet.

https://www.rainbird.com/sites/default/files/media/documents/2018-02/chart_SQnozzles.pdf
https://www.hunterindustries.com/sites/default/files/CA-Cutsheet-Short-Radius-Micro-Spray-Nozzles-US.pdf
https://www.hunterindustries.com/sites/default/files/CA-Cutsheet-MP-Rotator-US.pdf

The in ground irrigation is nifty, but what happens if it gets damaged and leaks? Can it be easily repaired?


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

So it seems rain birds small radius are really my only option at this point for the small strip in my yard. What about the small portion on one zone with the small radius rain it's and mp rotors for my large portion?


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

I would ask Hunter, but you may be able to reduce the radius of the 4 foot MP strip to 3 feet. IF not, then I think you would be stuck with small radius sprays or subsurface. I have MP rotators and really like them. They take longer to put down the water, but they are efficient and pretty.


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

So with the mp rotors has anyone had any experience with them piping up and not rotating? I had similar rain birds in my previous lawn and the would occasionally get stuck. I cleaned Them still nothing. This happened to several of them so as you can imagine it was pretty frustrating. This happened over a 6 year time so not sure what the shelf life is for them


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

I have Hunter MP rotators and have for ~9 years in my front lawn. I have ~20 heads. I have had to replace 2 nozzles (both last year). I didn't bother even trying to fix them, though it is supposed to be easy. The nozzles are ~6 USD shpped to my house from sprinkler warehouse. My lawn is a silty loam, so I don't have to deal with sand. Right now I just keep a few nozzles on hand in case I need to swap another one. I would guess you can expect them to go about 10 years on average. Standard spray nozzles are probably more durable as far as replacement, but I do find myself cleaning them about every 3-5 years as the spray patterns start to degrade if they get too much junk in them. My sprays are almost all in gardens except for a few in the lawn that spray into the garden.


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

From what I gather after scavenging these forums the hunter products have a lot more longevity. I will keep posting my progress, looks like I will start building the system within the next month. I understand that there should be head-to-head coverage when you're building a sprinkler system, now that being said Should I do heads on both sides of my 3' strip. Seems like overkill but don't want lack of coverage as this is the warmest part of my lawn and gets 9 hrs of direct sunlight right now.


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

Krs1 said:


> From what I gather after scavenging these forums the hunter products have a lot more longevity. I will keep posting my progress, looks like I will start building the system within the next month. I understand that there should be head-to-head coverage when you're building a sprinkler system, now that being said Should I do heads on both sides of my 3' strip. Seems like overkill but don't want lack of coverage as this is the warmest part of my lawn and gets 9 hrs of direct sunlight right now.


I have Hunter Pro Spray heads. I have about 90 heads. I would go with the Hunter Spray 4 in. body and nozzles. They have some really neat heads that can spray 5X30 ft. They are called *side strip* and short radius. These would be perfect for your small yard. I have sections that only have spray nozzles that do not overlap on both sides and they are very adequate. The sprays are WAY more accurate than the MP rotator and put out 4 times the output so you will have a much shorter run time. You should be able to cover your yard with about 5-6 heads using these strip and short spray nozzles along the straight sides of your yard.

https://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/products/lawn-irrigation/sprinkler-heads/nozzles/spray-nozzles?p=2

https://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/products/lawn-irrigation/sprinkler-heads/nozzles/spray-nozzles?model=6551

Look for these swing joints for easy install.

https://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/swing-joint-assembly-sj-506


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

Thanks @cldrunner for the links they are very helpful! I will look into this, I will need some accuracy for this tiny maze of grass


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

Swing joint looks like a game changer!


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

You're pretty much the advertised use case for subsurface drip irrigation, but I understand not wanting to go into uncharted territory there! Randomly I came across an old email from rain bird store where I asked about their RVAN-LCS nozzle (side corner strip). Its nominal pattern is 5x15 but they told me the 5 could go as low as 3. I personally think the rotatary spray nozzles are much better, much more even coverage. But I was comparing the rainbird VAN to their RVAN, and I'm only one person giving their anecdotal opinion. Depending on your soil, the low precip rate can be a good thing. I don't know about hunter, but with rainbird at least the actual spray bodies are the same so you can go back and forth with nozzles.


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

I had no idea they had so many different options for patterns and heads, it's impressive how far the sprinkler game has come in the last six years. I agree that I am the model layout for the ecomat and part of me wants to take the plunge and try it but the uncertainty would drive me crazy.


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

Moving forward with the project can Crete will be removed by next week. Took several palms out and removed rock from all the planters. Anyone suggest specific valves? I want in ground anti-siphon that will last! Will have 4 zones possibly 3


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

I have the hunter valves. You might want to spend some time deciding on the valves. Make sure to leave enough room so the valve can be replaced easily. You might want to buy an extra valve as sometimes the diaphragm parts needs replacing without removing the whole valve.

My valves are very close together which makes them difficult to work on or tell which one may be leaking. Lastly you may want to consider a master valve. I do not have one in my system but I am going to have one installed this month upline of all my valves.

I have a rainbird ESP-Me controller. I installed a wifi module and use the Rainbird app. Really nice to turn on and off with your phone especially for me if I am on the other side of the house. The Rachio controllers seem pretty nice but they were to small for my 17 zones.

https://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/shop?q=hunter+valves

https://www.hunterindustries.com/sites/default/files/design_guide_Residential_System_LIT-226-US.pdf


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

Ok I will do a bit more research. What's the reason for a master valve? Placed between the water source and the main valves?


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## jht3 (Jul 27, 2018)

Master valve keeps your main line unpressurized when not in use. If you spring a leak out in the yard, it won't lose lots of water.

Mine was installed on the copper feed line right after the backflow valve and 1/4 turn shutoff. I have a second shutoff right after the master valve for servicing.

Unions on one side of a valve ensures easy replacement. Leave enough lateral spacing between valves so you can spin one off. Assuming threaded valves, not slip fit.


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

Is this the only benifit to the threaded valves? Does anyone have any experience with Toro sprinklers? they have a precision line that would fit my application perfectly?


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## jht3 (Jul 27, 2018)

I have threaded valves but no unions, so have to cut pvc if the housing fails. Never had to do that. I have replaced the guts and tops

I had Toro heads, both rotors and sprays. Now all gone, replaced with Rainbird. The Toro sprays were fine actually, just old and needed tlc. Instead I went with Rainbird to match the newer heads that my irrigation company put in and prefers. I also prefer the Rainbird rotors for the ease of setting both the left and right stops.


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

I went with the hunter pro spray 4' and 6' adjustable nozzles. Will report when Tbey are in service and give a review.


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

@Krs1 I think you will be very happy with the Hunter Pro Spray. What controller did you choose. Are you going wifi compatible.


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

@cldrunner I am going to use a smart controller especially this day and age, who wouldn't want to use an app on your phone! I have been eyeballing this one, Rachio 8ZULWC-L R3e Generation: Smart, 8 Zone Sprinkler Controller but open for options! Quick question, so I have Hunter spray bodies and heads I was planning on going to the local store and just getting whatever valves they had possibly Rainbird with this be a problem? Or should I stick brand brand


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## Krs1 (Apr 2, 2020)

I only will have 4 zones


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

@Krs1 I think any valve is fine as long as you are happy with it. I would buy one extra for the parts for later on if you need to change the inside.


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