# Bermuda suppression (removal) from TTTF



## CFI (May 28, 2018)

I have a little bit of common bermuda mixed in to my TTTF in a few spots. Tenacity did an ok job of suppressing it last fall but it has definitely come back.

I've done a lot of reading on the subject but I was hoping that there was some first hand experience here. I'm planning to go out this year with a mix of fluazifop and triclopyr which I have on hand but I would be willing to pony up the money for Pylex if it is significantly better. Any experience would be appreciated.

Thanks


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I used Ornamec last year, and had some success eliminating areas of Bermuda. 
Some, but not all.
So, I bit the bullet and brought the glyphosate to it. I'll do it again in a heartbeat if I see it popping back up.

I haven't used Pylex, but the advantage, as I understand it, is that you have a set number (3?) of applications each season. Over the course of several years, you achieve eradication (ideally). Also, pylex MAY be safer for fescue than other options. I had plenty of mishaps with my fescue when using Ornamec.

LawnNerd recently had a very nice post on Bermuda eradication/control. I'll see if I can find it.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Here https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3111

And welcome to TLF!


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## CFI (May 28, 2018)

Thanks for the info and welcome Social. Definitely not enough Bermuda to get the glyphosate out. I may do a small test portion with Ornamec and Triclopyr to see if there is more damage to the TTTF than I can handle. Although I'm not sure if Pylex is safer or not. Really just hoping the former works well so I don't end up spending the money on the later. We'll see.


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

I used Fusilade II and turflon ester last year and it slowed the bermuda down but didn't stop it. The TTTF didn't show any signs of damage however I stopped treatments about mid June due to the higher temps and fear it would damage the TTTF. Last year I nuked the spots in August and went 2 to 3 feet outside of any actual bermuda I saw. So far none of it has come back so fingers are crossed that I'm good. If we had cooler summer temps here in NC that would allow regular apps throughout the bermuda growing season I think the Fusilade/Triclopyr approach would work but having to back away from it during prime growing time is a problem.


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## CFI (May 28, 2018)

Went out today with the first app.
0.8ml/1000 Pylex
.7oz/1000 Tryclopyr
1.5oz/1000 MSO
It's tuff to see in the pic but there is a ton of Bermuda mixed into some spots of my Fescue. Plan on going out with 2 more apps in 3 week intervals.


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## scz71864 (Mar 21, 2018)

This is my first year using Ornamec. It worked better the early part of the season. But it does work to suppress it. I also have large patches I just said to hell with and killed it. For some reason these little Bermuda strands just came out of no where it seems. I'll know more about the ornamec next season when I can get on the remaining small stuff next season.


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## scz71864 (Mar 21, 2018)




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## CFI (May 28, 2018)

I'd love to go out with glyphosate but the bermuda is in about 10k of 25k lawn. I may do ornamec and triclopyr next May if the bermuda returns.


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## CFI (May 28, 2018)

Not sure how well you can see it on camera but there is a very distinct line toward the back of the lawn. 2 weeks after the first application of pylex/triclopyr mix where I sprayed the fescue is much lighter and less vigorous than the rest of the lawn. Should I wait until (hopefully) this recovers before applying the next application?


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## CFI (May 28, 2018)

The Bermuda is white and brown so that's encouraging.


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## Richie0320 (Jun 2, 2018)

I did a 3oz rate of Triclopyr in my TTTF and bermuda mix. Out of a small portion in the front about 8500sqft I have I would guess 75% bermuda. I hit it hard with the triclopyr before I left on a trip, came back about 10 days later and its browned the bermuda to almost nothing. There are some spots that I know I didn't get the best coverage with it being on a septic mound but I was very please. I was going to Triclopyr, Round Up and Tenacity it, then overseed this fall but I may just hit it again with Triclopyr and see what happens. Thoughts?


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

I hear Pylex is effective, I'd love to hear some first hand reviews. Stuff is expensive though. I tried the ornamec/triclopyr route a couple years ago and it smoked my fescue right along with the Bermuda. At that point might as well go to glyphosate. Now I have KBG and I'm not sure fluazifop is safe for it even when it's cool, let alone in the heat of summer.

So, I've taken a different route for Bermuda control, and thus far it is working well. I am using 3-way broadleaf herbicide at half rate and triclopyr at half rate, and spray whenever I see some Bermuda rear its ugly head. It's safe for the bluegrass and turns the Bermuda brown in a week. I believe triclopyr has about 40% kill rate on Bermuda, so I'm hoping even if I get 25% over the course of 3-4 years it will be mostly gone. And what doesn't get killed is going to have a miserable existence under constant injury.


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## CFI (May 28, 2018)

Richie0320 said:


> I did a 3oz rate of Triclopyr in my TTTF and bermuda mix. Out of a small portion in the front about 8500sqft I have I would guess 75% bermuda. I hit it hard with the triclopyr before I left on a trip, came back about 10 days later and its browned the bermuda to almost nothing. There are some spots that I know I didn't get the best coverage with it being on a septic mound but I was very please. I was going to Triclopyr, Round Up and Tenacity it, then overseed this fall but I may just hit it again with Triclopyr and see what happens. Thoughts?


Was it 3oz/k of Triclopyr or 3oz over the entire 8000ft? If it's working at 3 oz per 8k great I vote do it again. I think the label says 3 or 4 week intervals. If it's 3oz per 1k that seems high, how did the fescue react?


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## CFI (May 28, 2018)

j4c11 said:


> I hear Pylex is effective, I'd love to hear some first hand reviews. Stuff is expensive though. I tried the ornamec/triclopyr route a couple years ago and it smoked my fescue right along with the Bermuda. At that point might as well go to glyphosate. Now I have KBG and I'm not sure fluazifop is safe for it even when it's cool, let alone in the heat of summer.
> 
> So, I've taken a different route for Bermuda control, and thus far it is working well. I am using 3-way broadleaf herbicide at half rate and triclopyr at half rate, and spray whenever I see some Bermuda rear its ugly head. It's safe for the bluegrass and turns the Bermuda brown in a week. I believe triclopyr has about 40% kill rate on Bermuda, so I'm hoping even if I get 25% over the course of 3-4 years it will be mostly gone. And what doesn't get killed is going to have a miserable existence under constant injury.


Interesting to hear the 3-way/triclopyr mix is working. I'm one app in on the Pylex. I'll try to keep posting pics as I go.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

CFI said:


> Not sure how well you can see it on camera but there is a very distinct line toward the back of the lawn. 2 weeks after the first application of pylex/triclopyr mix where I sprayed the fescue is much lighter and less vigorous than the rest of the lawn. Should I wait until (hopefully) this recovers before applying the next application?


I've never used pylex, but fescue is supposed to tolerate it better than other products for Bermuda suppression and eradication. Two questions come to mind: Do you think that you may have overapplied? And, are you due for another application soon? 
I wish that I could be of more help here. @alpine0000 might be able to offer an opinion, as he has used pylex.


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## Richie0320 (Jun 2, 2018)

CFI said:


> Richie0320 said:
> 
> 
> > I did a 3oz rate of Triclopyr in my TTTF and bermuda mix. Out of a small portion in the front about 8500sqft I have I would guess 75% bermuda. I hit it hard with the triclopyr before I left on a trip, came back about 10 days later and its browned the bermuda to almost nothing. There are some spots that I know I didn't get the best coverage with it being on a septic mound but I was very please. I was going to Triclopyr, Round Up and Tenacity it, then overseed this fall but I may just hit it again with Triclopyr and see what happens. Thoughts?
> ...


I did 3oz/1000, I was planning on going the nuke way. Hit it with triclopyr then fly so I wasn't worried about the fescue. The fescue faired great though and I'm very surprised.


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## alpine0000 (Jul 25, 2017)

social port said:


> I've never used pylex, but fescue is supposed to tolerate it better than other products for Bermuda suppression and eradication. Two questions come to mind: Do you think that you may have overapplied? And, are you due for another application soon?
> I wish that I could be of more help here. alpine0000 might be able to offer an opinion, as he has used pylex.


I did two applications on my lawn this summer and nothing at all looked stressed out except a few random weeds and bermuda spots that died within a week.

With Pylex + Triclopyr applications, you can do one of two options:

1) Two applications (4 weeks apart) at 1ml per 1000 of pylex and mix triclopyr into it at a rate of 4.5 teaspoons per 1000
2) Three applications (4 weeks apart) at .8ml per 1000 of pylex and mix triclopyr into it at a rate of 4.5 teaspoons per 1000

The Pylex label says you can do applications 3 weeks apart of *pylex*, but the Triclopyr label says you must wait 4 weeks between applications for triclopyr, therefore, you have to wait 4 weeks between the applications suggested above.

Also, I'm thinking you over-applied the suggested rate of triclopyr according to the Pylex label directions. The Pylex label for bermuda control says on page 8:

_"...control of these species requires a tank mix with triclopyr ester at 32 fl ozs/A (1 lb ae/A)."_

32 ounces per acre = .73 oz per 1000
.73 ounces per 1000 = 4.41 teaspoons per 1000

That could be way your grass looks stressed


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## CFI (May 28, 2018)

alpine0000 said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> > I've never used pylex, but fescue is supposed to tolerate it better than other products for Bermuda suppression and eradication. Two questions come to mind: Do you think that you may have overapplied? And, are you due for another application soon?
> ...


No I applied everything at lable rates for the the application plan from the Pylex lable.

.8ml/k pylex
.7oz/k triclopyr
1.5oz/k mso

There is another guy in the tread that ran 3oz/k triclopyr and said his fescue held up just fine. I'm hoping that my issue is just the whitening from the Pylex and that the fescue will bounce back. I've decided that I'm going to go forward with the 3 application Pylex plan even if the fescue is damaged. I plan to plug and seed in September anyway so hopefully I'll do it with less living Bermuda.


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## CFI (May 28, 2018)

Richie0320 said:


> CFI said:
> 
> 
> > Richie0320 said:
> ...


Hey, if you were going to use round up anyway I'd say hit it again with triclopyr. Again the only issue I can see that might be a problem is the 3 week reseeding interval.


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## CFI (May 28, 2018)

Today is 3 weeks after the first application. The Bermuda is mostly brown with some white and a little bit of green mixed in. The Fescue looks better for the most part but is still a little bit lighter in color where I sprayed than where I didn't.

I put down round two today at the same rate:
Pylex .8ml/1k
Triclopyr .7oz/1k
MSO 1.5oz/1k


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## CFI (May 28, 2018)

Almost 2 weeks after the second application and I have smoked some of the fescue. I'm not sure if it's the herbicides or if the herbicides weekend the fescue and made it more susceptible to the fungus out break that I had. Either way I have some dead fescue. Not a huge deal as I will be plugging and seeding in a couple of weeks.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

The MSO rate looks a little high could have been one of the factors for roasting the fescue. Did the Bermuda at least get wasted?


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## CFI (May 28, 2018)

Old tread revival..... So last year I tried to remove common Bermuda from my fescue lawn using Pylex and Triclopyr. The process in the Pylex lable calls for 3 applications 3 weeks apart. After the third application I found that I had killed everything in the areas that I had sprayed, including my fescue. After a few challenges reseeding last fall I finally got a decent amount of fescue growing in those areas again. All of the work seemed worth while if the Bermuda was gone. Unfortunately that was not to be. Fast forward to June of this year and a lot of the been is back. So I'm at it again but this time with a lower amount of MSO and I'll be much more cognizant of the OAT when I spray. This year I'm going with
0.9ml/K Pylex
0.7oz/K Triclopyr
0.4oz/K MSO
And trying not to spray above 80f


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## craigdt (Apr 21, 2018)

Wow- this is great feedback. thank you for sharing.

I did not realize MSO could be so stressful on desirable turfgrass.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

I'm also working on ridding my lawn of bermuda but I have less bermuda than you do. In addition to the pylex / triclopyr routine I've noticed that a tall, dense healthy stand of fescue helps to shade bermuda regrowth. Seems to make the herbicides more effective and it may just end up a matter of attrition. For next year, maybe focus early Spring through bermuda greenup time on really getting the fescue as dense as possible and cut tall.

I also noticed the pylex / triclopyr / MSO combo stressed out the fescue. My round 2 cut the triclopyr to 0.5 oz per 1,000 and I switched to NIS instead of MSO. The pylex stays at 1 ml per 1,000. I have to wait and see what that does.


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## CFI (May 28, 2018)

Delmarva Keith said:


> I'm also working on ridding my lawn of bermuda but I have less bermuda than you do. In addition to the pylex / triclopyr routine I've noticed that a tall, dense healthy stand of fescue helps to shade bermuda regrowth. Seems to make the herbicides more effective and it may just end up a matter of attrition. For next year, maybe focus early Spring through bermuda greenup time on really getting the fescue as dense as possible and cut tall.
> 
> I also noticed the pylex / triclopyr / MSO combo stressed out the fescue. My round 2 cut the triclopyr to 0.5 oz per 1,000 and I switched to NIS instead of MSO. The pylex stays at 1 ml per 1,000. I have to wait and see what that does.


Good info. The brown spots you see in the picture are dead or dormant areas of poa triv. One of a couple issues I had with last falls seeding. I'll definitely keep an eye on the fescue.


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