# Fertilizing an Overseed



## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

First drop of seed was 3 weeks ago, hurricane came through, 4+ inches of rain, humidity,etc. I have some washout on my slope, even though it was an Overseed, with all the rain we got, I also had a lot of seed rot out because some of the existing turf laid over.

I was forced to reseed some of areas that were problematic with left over seed that I had.

I've mowed 2x's due to the existing lawn coming off the PGR and rebounding.

When would be a good time to start spoon feeding? I've been holding off as long as possible to give the new seed as much time to germinate as possible.

My first Overseed will be at 4 weeks and the second bout will be at 2 weeks, this coming weekend.

I'm getting antsy to feed it but should I wait?


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## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

Listening for advice here because we are in the exact same boat!


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

What type of grass did you seed?


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

San said:


> What type of grass did you seed?


TTTF - SSS Mix/GCI

Before seeding the second time, I used my rotary mower to cut existing turf and clear out as much of the dead/laid down grass @ 
2 1/8"

Yesterday - I cut again with a push reel mower to not suck up any of the seed at 2"

The only app I've made was fungicide app of clearys, Azoxy ,mefenoxam and TGP 0-0-29 liquid app


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

Unless you feel things are going to die off if you don't fertilize, I would wait. 

Assuming you had most in check, the most useful fertilizer would be to push N for the fall blitz.

However you are going to create a lot of top growth with that, which means your current grass could choke out your new grass unless you do a lot of mowing and your new grass wouldn't focus on root development.

What you really want is to have the young grass go through it's sprout and pout phase and if you have time left after that I would start fall blitzing with fast N.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

San said:


> Unless you feel things are going to die off if you don't fertilize, I would wait.
> 
> Assuming you had most in check, the most useful fertilizer would be to push N for the fall blitz.
> 
> ...


I don't mind staying on top of the mowing. I just want to be able to hit the turf with as much of a nitrogen blitz as possible, but like you said, my biggest concern is choking out the new grass.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

I would watch the new grass and see when it's done pouting.

That would be my larger concern, if it's growing on the top, because it's just getting N, it's not making efforts to develop roots. Which makes it harder for it to survive.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

At what point does new seed need food? I know that they are well equipped for the first couple weeks.


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## Lawn Whisperer (Feb 15, 2021)

From the  cool season overseed  guide:
" Fertilizer: After the first cut is when I slowly start fertilizing. For this I use urea. It's relatively inexpensive and by this time the temps are generally cool enough that you don't have to worry about burn. First and second app is 1/4lbs nitrogen per 1k a week apart. Each app has to be watered in with at least 1/4" of water. Mow as needed. After the first two nitrogen apps you can incease it to 1/2lbs nitrogen per 1k every two weeks."


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## Slkching28 (Sep 5, 2021)

San said:


> I would watch the new grass and see when it's done pouting.
> 
> That would be my larger concern, if it's growing on the top, because it's just getting N, it's not making efforts to develop roots. Which makes it harder for it to survive.


In the nitrogen blitz guide, it states " Part of the fall nitrogen blitz approach is to provide nitrogen so the roots could recover from the summer damage and store the nitrate as carbohydrates during the winter."

So does N actually promote root growth or stop root growth??


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

The nitrogen blitz is not compatible with a recent seeding. From the blitz guide:
"Lastly, this is not intended for a recently (3-4 weeks ago) seeded lawn since the grass is too young to be forced to grow with nitrogen. Let it grow a winter before doing this. During an overseed/reno use a spoon feeding approach." Use the fertilizer approach as described in the overseeding guide.


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## thin_concrete (Sep 11, 2020)

Slkching28 said:


> San said:
> 
> 
> > I would watch the new grass and see when it's done pouting.
> ...


A newly seeded lawn has no roots. I'm using fertilizers with high phosphorous and potassium counts to help in root development. The starter fert I'm using is the Lesco 18-24-12.

I put seed down Labor Day weekend and applied seed to bare/thin areas after the first mow earlier this week. The bare areas aren't at risk of having the first round of overseeding crowd out the newly laid seed because it's bare - there's nothing to compete with. The thin areas are where I'll lose some of the second round of seeding, but that's okay.

I'm using TTTF (Titan RX and Rhizing Moon).


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## Slkching28 (Sep 5, 2021)

Virginiagal said:


> The nitrogen blitz is not compatible with a recent seeding. From the blitz guide:
> "Lastly, this is not intended for a recently (3-4 weeks ago) seeded lawn since the grass is too young to be forced to grow with nitrogen. Let it grow a winter before doing this. During an overseed/reno use a spoon feeding approach." Use the fertilizer approach as described in the overseeding guide.


Since i have TTTF lawn in transition zone, I pretty much have to overseed every year. Does that mean I can never do a nitrogen blitz then?? 😞


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

If you're overseeding every year, you can overseed earlier (maybe late August instead of September) and gain a little more time for fertilizing. You will spoon feed after you start mowing the new grass. So you can do a modified fertilizer plan and still get a good amount of fertilizer down,, just not the nitrogen blitz that g-man has described. Do you know why you have to overseed each year? Is it a water problem, fungus issue, or something else?


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

So I went ahead and I sprayed:

.20 lbs per gallon of urea
4 fl oz per gallon TGP Micros
3 fl oz per gallon of TGP 0-0-29 
1 fl oz per gallon of talstar for sod webworm. Saw a few moths come out, nothing alarming but went ahead and did it anyways

This is technically my 3rd now since my initial seed down. The turf looked hungry


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## Slkching28 (Sep 5, 2021)

Virginiagal said:


> If you're overseeding every year, you can overseed earlier (maybe late August instead of September) and gain a little more time for fertilizing. You will spoon feed after you start mowing the new grass. So you can do a modified fertilizer plan and still get a good amount of fertilizer down,, just not the nitrogen blitz that g-man has described. Do you know why you have to overseed each year? Is it a water problem, fungus issue, or something else?


In DMV area (zone 7), the backyard is full sun and I have an acre of lawn that I can't water. 300' long of hose and the main to hose bib pipe size is only 1/2", so the water is weak. So each year I feel like all my seedling from previous fall die, and I read it somewhere that it needs 2 year for TTTF to establish. I don't mind they go dormant, but I haven't find a way to keep them alive until fall comes


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

@Slkching28 Yes, if you're unable to water and the summer is hot and dry, you will have losses. Tttf doesn't do dormancy well. Have you considered doing a smaller lawn of nice grass close to where you have access to water and letting the area where the hose doesn't reach be unirrigated mixed weeds? There is nothing wrong with mowed weeds.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

@Slkching28 Without watering, it is difficult to do the nitrogen blitz anyway, as you should water in the fertilizer after you apply it. It is also difficult to overseed without the ability to keep the soil moist during germination.


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## Slkching28 (Sep 5, 2021)

@Virginiagal I'm hoping the morning dew would be sufficient for nitrogen blitz. I need to think of a better way to water the lawn instead of moving sprinkler, but 300' is far.

Here is what it looked like in June 


And in July and august. This happened


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

@Slkching28 Morning dew can cause fertilizer burn if the fertilizer is not watered into the soil. I suggest using a slow release fertilizer that doesn't need to be watered in. Or fertilizing before rain if it's likely a slow rain instead of a downpour. Use the directions on the bag instead of the directions for the blitz.

The damage this year could have been (may still be) caused by fall armyworms which are not normal for this area. Here is some information:
https://www.chesterfield.gov/DocumentCenter/View/23074/Managing-Fall-Armyworms-on-Lawns-PDF?bidId=
https://vaturf.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/General-armyworm-update-for-LCOs-and-clientele.pdf

How are you using that big field that's, I guess, behind your house? You could plant trees and bushes and do a more cozy setting as your immediate yard and leave the large, further away area to fend for itself, except for mowing.


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## FreestateFescue (Aug 5, 2021)

@Slkching28 I feel you. I'm in the DMV too and in the same boat. I learned a couple things last year while watching my yard and of course browsing on here. It sounds crazy but I was cutting too high. I saw on another post where g-man stated that tall grass doesn't photosynthesize and retain water as well as short grass. So In theory alot of my dethatching and the need to overseed every year came from floppy grass shading out areas because it looked cute at 4" but it was deceptively green if you know what I mean. So I've been keeping my fescue at 3" and it actually looks better and more rigid and holds up to heat better. I also introduced KBG into my fescue lawn. Per the MD turf council KBG in a fescue lawn helps reduce summer disease and the repairability helps the fescue, so thats something for you to consider. In terms of keeping fescue in the summer I've found that by using sea kelp in the summer helps the lawn retain moisture for longer periods. To second what VAGal said slow release ferts work best. In the summer in DMV I put it down before I know its going to rain and all goes well. So you can achieve it just takes a little more work.


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## Slkching28 (Sep 5, 2021)

@FreestateFescue maybe I will start doing some KBG mix into TTTF. I get my seeds from newsom. So u mow ur grass to 3" in summer and 2-2.5" in spring and fall??

What slow release fertilizer do u use?? I have been only getting those 24-0-12 and 18-24-12 from Home Depot. Those are the cheapest since I have 40-50k sq ft of lawn.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Slkching28 said:


> @FreestateFescue maybe I will start doing some KBG mix into TTTF. I get my seeds from newsom. So u mow ur grass to 3" in summer and 2-2.5" in spring and fall??
> 
> What slow release fertilizer do u use?? I have been only getting those 24-0-12 and 18-24-12 from Home Depot. Those are the cheapest since I have 40-50k sq ft of lawn.


Urea and soybean meal best bang for the buck especially if you're in a rural area to score cheap. Soybean is mild use late spring/summer. Urea fall and winter.


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## FreestateFescue (Aug 5, 2021)

Slkching28 said:


> @FreestateFescue maybe I will start doing some KBG mix into TTTF. I get my seeds from newsom. So u mow ur grass to 3" in summer and 2-2.5" in spring and fall??
> 
> What slow release fertilizer do u use?? I have been only getting those 24-0-12 and 18-24-12 from Home Depot. Those are the cheapest since I have 40-50k sq ft of lawn.


I get my seed from Newsom Seed too, they have a nice supply of KBG seed to choose from if you want to integrate it into your TTTF. Those are generally the cutting heights I go by. For slow release fertilizer I use a 30-0-10 by Lesco that I get from Lowe's. I've had really good results from it. Its cheaper than Milo for my yard size plus its no phos and per my soil test I'm already off the charts with phosphorus.


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## Slkching28 (Sep 5, 2021)

FreestateFescue said:


> Slkching28 said:
> 
> 
> > @FreestateFescue maybe I will start doing some KBG mix into TTTF. I get my seeds from newsom. So u mow ur grass to 3" in summer and 2-2.5" in spring and fall??
> ...


How do your KBG do in the summer without irrigation?? Which blend u get from newsom?? I only notice TTTF blend or trio mix that include PRG when I visit the Gaithersburg store. I also got the Lowe's version this year because of 20% off when u buy 5 🤣


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## FreestateFescue (Aug 5, 2021)

Slkching28 said:


> FreestateFescue said:
> 
> 
> > Slkching28 said:
> ...


I go to the Newsom in Fulton where they have a MD Certified Sod mix that is 90% TTTF & 10% bluegrass. I've even seeded certain areas with GCI Turf Cool Blue which is 85% TTTF & 15% Bluegrass.
https://newsomseed.com/grassseedmixes.html
Honestly without irrigation the KBG does go dormant, but look at the trade off, if you incorporate it into your lawn then as each year goes by there is less overseeding each year of the TTTF because the KBG spreads just by nitrogen when cool temps return. It just kinda knits everything together.


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## Slkching28 (Sep 5, 2021)

@FreestateFescue im totally fine with summer dormancy. I just wonder if they completely die from the summer heat or choke out by summer weed. My concern is whether the bluegrass will die and there is nothing left to repair in fall and I still have to overseed every year. Feel like in transition zone, everything grow, but nothing grow well.


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## FreestateFescue (Aug 5, 2021)

As long as you put down your spring pre-emergent, weeds in the summer shouldn't be a problem. But heres an article that explains the dormancy process of KBG.

https://www.extension.iastate.edu/news/2007/jul/070201.htm


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## Slkching28 (Sep 5, 2021)

FreestateFescue said:


> As long as you put down your spring pre-emergent, weeds in the summer shouldn't be a problem. But heres an article that explains the dormancy process of KBG.
> 
> https://www.extension.iastate.edu/news/2007/jul/070201.htm


Summer weed as in those pesky perennial one like Bermuda grass..😭😭 it's so hard to get rid of them


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

I looked at the Lesco label. Only 2.79% of the 30% N is slow release. So consider it mostly a fast release fertilizer and apply before a gentle rain if you cannot irrigate.

@FreestateFescue Perhaps you have some ideas on how KBG can be introduced into an overseeding with no irrigation, with a seed that takes a long time to germinate, at the end of September with frost probably coming in October.


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## FreestateFescue (Aug 5, 2021)

Virginiagal said:


> I looked at the Lesco label. Only 2.79% of the 30% N is slow release. So consider it mostly a fast release fertilizer and apply before a gentle rain if you cannot irrigate.
> 
> @FreestateFescue Perhaps you have some ideas on how KBG can be introduced into an overseeding with no irrigation, with a seed that takes a long time to germinate, at the end of September with frost probably coming in October.


VaGal, you pose a valid question. What I did was scalp, dethatch, & aerate my TTTF in early August and overseeded the KBG into my fescue. August in the DMV is typically humid and moist but also we get alot of tropical moisture and possible remnants of weakening hurricanes. This past August we had 9inch of rain, so the kbg came in pretty good. Although I know it will spread overtime, I was pretty satisfied with the results. So all in all, you just gotta start early, be willing to put in a 10 hour day on a weekend, lol and really watch the weather. My first frost isnt typically until the first week of November. I live just 20min east of DC. But if some one for instance lived near the Mason Dixon line, then it would be a completely different story due to being in a mountainous region.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

@Scagfreedom48z+ i apologize for interrupting your thread. I trust you got your answers some time ago.

@FreestateFescue Good for you! Glad you had success with establishment. I guess you're fertilizing now that the KBG is catching up with the fescue? As I understand it, fescue survives drought because it has deep roots but dies instead of going into dormancy. KBG has shallower roots so it's suspectible to drought but goes dormant. However it too will die if water doesn't come after awhile. Newly established grass of either kind is going to need water next July. Maybe we have thunderstorms, maybe not. In another thread, I suggested to him that clover is a low maintenance plant if there had to be an overseeding and it would mix with fescue. Even that will need water to get established, but maybe it could be planted in a cool, rainy stretch. He has such a large area and it would seem to be an expensive, frustrating thing to be overseeding every fall, like it seems like he's doing. Weather here looks like it will be dry for the next two weeks so it is not promising for any seeding without irrigation.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

We have two acres at our place at the river and never planted seed, watered, or fertilized. All we do is mow, It is truly survival of the fittest. In summer it's crabgrass. In winter it's a purple field of henbit and chickweed. It's certainly not going to win any turfgrass prizes but it is quite low maintenance. No one down there does anything different, And with other things going on, like the blueberries and fig trees, the azaleas, who notices the grass? Here in town, though, I do maintain an all tttf front lawn (which was hit by armyworms in early September and had to be reseeded). My husband always teases me about all the effort that goes into the lawn there (my lawn) as opposed to the much larger lawn at the river (his lawn, he just got a Gravely zero turn, replacing a Kubota tractor, to speed up mowing).


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