# How long do I have to wait to apply Fall Pre-emergent after overseeding this year?



## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

I have already overseeded (yes it was early, I know that) Used GCI cool blue. TTTF/KBG. I am 2 full weeks in, germination everywhere. I want to know when I can safely put down a fall pre-emergent. I'll be patching up some areas that didn't fill in by the end of August.
I also am looking for recommendations on which pre-emergent to use. This will be my first time using a pre-emergent in the fall.

Location SE Michigan.

Thanks guys!


----------



## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Prodiamine or Dimension. Check label, but usually 60 days post _germination_. Another reason not to wait too late to put your seed down. Congrats on getting it down early and ahead of the game.


----------



## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

Harts said:


> Prodiamine or Dimension. Check label, but usually 60 days post _germination_. Another reason not to wait too late to put your seed down. Congrats on getting it down early and ahead of the game.


Thanks brother! So far It has been extremely successful. Fall is very busy for me so I broke the rules and seeded in the middle of summer.

I can be done.


----------



## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

Check out Zac Reicher research on dimension (dithiopyr). You can go earlier than what's on the bag.

Even so, i prefer prodiamine. 60 days.

You went early so that is good.


----------



## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

I am glad I read this thrtead. I thought it was you either overseeding without pre-emergent or overseed with only Tenacity (mesotrione). Didn't realize you could use prodiamine/dithiopyr if you overseed early enough.

Why is it considered early to overseed for Michigan?

I am just a stone's throw away and our dog days are behind us in my opinion. We have a very short window for really hot temps.


----------



## Harts (May 14, 2018)

turfnsurf said:


> I am glad I read this thrtead. I thought it was you either overseeding without pre-emergent or overseed with only Tenacity (mesotrione). Didn't realize you could use prodiamine/dithiopyr if you overseed early enough.
> 
> Why is it considered early to overseed for Michigan?
> 
> I am just a stone's throw away and our dog days are behind us in my opinion. We have a very short window for really hot temps.


I think the phrase "Fall is best for seeding" is misleading. It makes folks think September / October.

Reality is for northeast, mid to late August is the ideal window.


----------



## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

turfnsurf said:


> I am glad I read this thrtead. I thought it was you either overseeding without pre-emergent or overseed with only Tenacity (mesotrione). Didn't realize you could use prodiamine/dithiopyr if you overseed early enough.
> 
> Why is it considered early to overseed for Michigan?
> 
> I am just a stone's throw away and our dog days are behind us in my opinion. We have a very short window for really hot temps.


Most people on the Facebook lawn groups thought I was nuts for overseeding in late July. I fought 90 degree temps for about 9 days. I work from home so I am able to water 5-7 times a day. I also don't want to be messing to much with the lawn I'm the fall. With 4 kids, the fall is very very busy with all their activities. Plus we have a vacation coming up. The last thing I wanted to be worrying about on vacation was my yard. I wanted all major lawn stuff to be done by late August so I could sit back and enjoy northern Michigan, without thinking about grass growing.


----------



## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

halby said:


> turfnsurf said:
> 
> 
> > I am glad I read this thrtead. I thought it was you either overseeding without pre-emergent or overseed with only Tenacity (mesotrione). Didn't realize you could use prodiamine/dithiopyr if you overseed early enough.
> ...


I think the hot temps are behind us where we could probably get going now or next week without issue. Good luck!


----------



## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

Harts said:


> turfnsurf said:
> 
> 
> > I am glad I read this thrtead. I thought it was you either overseeding without pre-emergent or overseed with only Tenacity (mesotrione). Didn't realize you could use prodiamine/dithiopyr if you overseed early enough.
> ...


@Harts I agree. I would prefer more region-based or temperature-based guidance. It's a learning process though.


----------



## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

Harts said:


> turfnsurf said:
> 
> 
> > I am glad I read this thrtead. I thought it was you either overseeding without pre-emergent or overseed with only Tenacity (mesotrione). Didn't realize you could use prodiamine/dithiopyr if you overseed early enough.
> ...


Yeah and a lot of people just regurgitate things they hear the YouTubers say without actually "doing" it. You can seed anytime you want, fall is easier sure, but you don't have to wait until your meat thermometer reads "70" degrees in the ground.


----------



## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

turfnsurf said:


> halby said:
> 
> 
> > turfnsurf said:
> ...


 Right now is perfect if you ask me. Get the fungicide down and go for it. Plus starting a little early means you have more time on the back end to fix any areas that need a little touch-up. Starting now means you'll have VERY established turf by the end of September. That KBG has plenty of time to get mature enough for winter. Mother nature is more predictable now than in late September, early October. We could hit low 40's, high thirties at night in October. I do not want to start seeding in September than have my young turf get zapped by cold weather. Hot, dry weather I can't fight my way through, I can't do that with cold temps


----------



## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

halby said:


> turfnsurf said:
> 
> 
> > halby said:
> ...


I definitely agree about the inconsistent temps that we get and that once they hit, it's too late.

I've never used fungicide before. What do you use and for what purpose?


----------



## Marzbar (Aug 2, 2020)

Hi Halby. So what was your process of overseeding?
Thanks.


----------



## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

Marzbar said:


> Hi Halby. So what was your process of overseeding?
> Thanks.


In the spring (march) i overseeded the entire lawn with perennial rye. aerated, than dropped seed, than top dressed the entire lawn with pete moss. That was so much work but it was a great success, but fought weeds pressure the entire summer. Ended up doing a blanket app of tenacity. That helped for about a month. I really didn't know how well the Rye overseed went until just a few weeks ago. IT really really filled in nicely as i started pushing heavy humics and Nitrogen.

3 weeks ago I overseeded a few areas with GCI cool blue. I was going to aerate again this fall before overseeding, but i really don't have to, my turf is VERY VERY thick right now. This past overseed I just kept it simple, cut low, dropped seed, raked it in, top dressed some areas with top soil.

Photos after fresh mow today

You can still see some tenacity bleeching in some of tehse pics, overall I am really really happy with where I am at this time in August. Heat index is high 90's


----------



## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

Really happy with it. This is where I was at in early June


----------



## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

This is our second year in the house. Last year my wife fought stage 3 cancer so I didn't care at all obviously about my lawn. After talking to my new neighbors, I found out that the previous owners did absolutely nothing to this yard. Essentially this yard was not maintained since the early 70's


----------



## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

@halby congratulations on your wife fighting. Glad things are improving for you. Your lawn looks very green. Is that mostly due to the type of seed, or perhaps PGR, or something else?

Also, what's your irrigation setup?


----------



## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Glad your wife is doing well and the lawn looks fantastic. From the pictures looks like you have a nice mix of sun and shade during the day definitely always easier for new grass survival. Good call dropping seed early.


----------



## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

turfnsurf said:


> @halby congratulations on your wife fighting. Glad things are improving for you. Your lawn looks very green. Is that mostly due to the type of seed, or perhaps PGR, or something else?
> 
> Also, what's your irrigation setup?


Thank you all for the kind words! Yes the wife is doing "ok" now.

As far as the green, It's lots and lots of Humic/Fulvic and Nitrogen. My main goal this spring and summer was to really push this turf as much as I could. Like I said it literally had not been maintained, fertilized EVER. I did not do any pre-emergents because I knew I was going to be seeding pretty much all spring and summer as well. While I don't regret that, I would not ever do it again. It's constant work trying to seed in spring and summer. Constant weed pressure, constant disease pressure. I fought brown patch and pythium. A lot of the issues were brought on because of the High nitrogen applications and constant watering due to the seeding. I definitely know why they say wait until fall to overseed. Disease cropped up in a matter of 24 hours when our humidity and night time temps were high. This summer was about trial and error and education. Had I not done all this "eraly" I would not be ready for my September mini overseed. I learned so so so much about my land and I feel like I am really really prepared. Plus I made some massive improvements even with countless setbacks because of the crazy heat we had.


----------



## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

halby said:


> Thank you all for the kind words! Yes the wife is doing "ok" now.
> 
> As far as the green, It's lots and lots of Humic/Fulvic and Nitrogen. My main goal this spring and summer was to really push this turf as much as I could. Like I said it literally had not been maintained, fertilized EVER. I did not do any pre-emergents because I knew I was going to be seeding pretty much all spring and summer as well. While I don't regret that, I would not ever do it again. It's constant work trying to seed in spring and summer. Constant weed pressure, constant disease pressure. I fought brown patch and pythium. A lot of the issues were brought on because of the High nitrogen applications and constant watering due to the seeding. I definitely know why they say wait until fall to overseed. Disease cropped up in a matter of 24 hours when our humidity and night time temps were high. This summer was about trial and error and education. Had I not done all this "eraly" I would not be ready for my September mini overseed. I learned so so so much about my land and I feel like I am really really prepared. Plus I made some massive improvements even with countless setbacks because of the crazy heat we had.


I just started applying humic/fulvic myself.

What were your application rates for humic/fulvic? What was your source of N and the app rate for that?
What is your irrigation setup? Did you water manually?


----------



## achosid (Aug 10, 2020)

Glad to see you were able to flip a poorly maintained lawn well. This is my 2nd summer in my house and I'm starting actual lawn care now (previous house was condemned, no care there. Neighbor is blind, fighting a lot of weeds from his lawn that are coming over) and seeing you get results this strong are great! Hoping the same for mine.


----------

