# HELP - Problem......



## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Alright guys, so last year ai got a reel mower and with the help of you all had the best looking lawn in the neighborhood. Followed watering, fertilizer, etc. and it looked perfect! Now obviously dormant along with everyone else's and still looks the best! However, I put out my pre-emergent like I was supposed to (Scotts blue and white bag crabgrass and leafy weed preventer) twice a year and am having a major weed problem already. Here's pics of what it is, and it's really only on the hilly areas. I need to fix this now before it's too late! I really do not want to use a company either, I'd like to do it myself. Is this feasible? What can I do? What should I use? What'd I do wrong?

**Also curious about those spots on my yard? Nobody else reel mows/cuts short and nobody else has those. They're really only apparent after a rain.**

At the end of grass-cutting season last year there was not a single weed in my yard. Now this! Again, mainly that picture of the small side hill along with a large hill in the back.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)




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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)




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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

Top pic I think is Cudweed. Is the underside of the leaf grayish or white in color? The bottom pic is Carolina Geranium. You'll need a three-way herbicide containing (2,4-D, MCPP, DIcamba) or alternate three-way containing (2,4-D, Fluroxypry, Triclopyr). Go ahead and blanket pray the entire yard. No sense playing wack-a-mole or hide and go seek with these weeds. If spot spray more will probably show up by next week.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Thanks for the quick reply!

2,4,D safe for Bermuda?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Kustrud said:


> 2,4,D safe for Bermuda?


2,4-d is a yes for Bermuda.

Triclopyr can be used during cool/dormant Bermuda.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Kustrud said:


> Thanks for the quick reply!
> 
> 2,4,D safe for Bermuda?


Yes, under 85-90° you're good to go. Above that it can cause some damage.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

So wold Crossbow be my best bet? Just spray the whole yard?

https://www.domyown.com/crossbow-specialty-herbicide-4d-triclopyr-p-4545.html


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Or any ideas on something I could pick up locally?

Thanks again for all the help - what a great forum!


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

I would personally stay away from Triclopyr on even dormant Bermuda. It's been down in the single digits here this past week with an overall cold winter and I can look into the canopy and see green.


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

You might have issues with the control of Cudweed unless you have something spiked with Triclopyr. It's really nothing to be afraid of when used at lowers rates on warm season turf.

In fact check out Battleship III. The list of broadleaf weeds controlled is outstanding and it's labeled for warm season turf as long is it's cut above 1/2 in.https://www.domyown.com/msds/Battleship III Selective Herbicide Label.pdf


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Alright so I'm gonna knock this out this weekend! Three questions!

What should I use exactly to kill this stuff, a 2,4-D mentioned above I guess? I mean, which one is the best deal and most effective overall post emergent? Typically once it warms up too hot to use, weeds should all be choked out anyway enough for me to pull what does pop up. So I need to use a surfactant or whatever it's called mixed in? If so, what?

What is the best pre emergent I can get? When should I use it? I was using Scott's once in Sept and again before March 1. This clearly didn't work. I can spray or spread so that doesn't matter. What should I get??

What kind of sprayer tip should I get and where do I get it for my back back sprayer?

Sorry for being kind winded and I greatly appreciate the help!


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I would spray some generic 2,4-D that you should be able to pick up anywhere, then hand pull anything it doesn't kill.

I would not expect 6 months of control out of Scotts Halts. If you only want to apply pre-e twice a year, I would look to Prodiamine 65 WDG.

Any fan tip should work. If you want to get technical, I use XR or Turbo TeeJets for contact products and Air Induction (AI) for pre-e. The most important part is calibration - it is imperative that you know exactly how much product you are applying.

When you get a chance, update your profile with your lawn size.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Do you have any ortho weed-b-gon on hand? I am trying to keep you from buying something new if you already have stuff that will do the job.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> Do you have any ortho weed-b-gon on hand? I am trying to keep you from buying something new if you already have stuff that will do the job.


+1, that's what I was thinking also. I'm sure that Battleship III would work better but $188 for 2.5 gallons of it is a steep price to pay


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I don't think anyone has mentioned about the "spots" in the lawn. I get those too in my lawn, I think they could be LDS(Localized Dry Spots). They usually go away once the lawn greens up but if you continue to have issues you may want to look into a wetting agent.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> I don't think anyone has mentioned about the "spots" in the lawn. I get those too in my lawn, I think they could be LDS(Localized Dry Spots). They usually go away once the lawn greens up but if you continue to have issues you may want to look into a wetting agent.


Understood - thanks!


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

I have tried the Weed B Gone and it just does not seem to work! Also seems like it it just rolls off the weed. So here's where I am at.

1. I'll get some generic 2,4-D to try and kill what's there.
2. I def need a better pre-emergent, can I get Prodiamine 65 WDG anywhere locally?
3. What should I or do I need to use as a surfactant with the 2,4-D?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Kustrud said:


> I have tried the Weed B Gone and it just does not seem to work! Also seems like it it just rolls off the weed. So here's where I am at.
> 
> 1. I'll get some generic 2,4-D to try and kill what's there.
> 2. I def need a better pre-emergent, can I get Prodiamine 65 WDG anywhere locally?
> 3. What should I or do I need to use as a surfactant with the 2,4-D?


To your question on where to get prodiamine 65 WDG, I purchased from pestrong.com which is out of GA, there's also www.lawnandpestcontrolsupply.com , domyown.com , and many others. Usually the smallest amount is going to be a 5LB container and it will have to be mixed with water and sprayed over the lawn.

When did you apply the weed-b-gone? The weed-b-gon product is an amine version of three way which is going to have a hard time during cool weather (below 65F).

Before you go buy something, lets make sure you get the right product.

Options:
If only a few weeds - hand pull them or snag a paint brush and brush them with glyphosate.
If more significant amount of weeds where you will definitely want to spray: 
Three way Amine, containing 2,4-D, MCPP, and Dicamba - most effective 65F+; can be used year around but also have to be careful during warm weather. You could probably get a three way amine and combine it with 
Three way Ester, containing 2,4-D, MCPP, and Dicamba - more effective kill as the ester formualations tend to penetrate better, except more likely to cause harm to good plants in hot weather
Items like crossbow (which is an ester) will probably totally smoke it due to the triclopyr and 2,4-D combo, however, you're not going to want to use that when your Bermuda greens up as triclopyr can suppress Bermuda grass.

With that all being said, out of the above, the only thing that's going to kill the poa annua is going to be glyphosate.
So, you can hand pull it, brush it with glyphosate, or use something else.

You can try Celsius combined with either a methylated seed oil or crop oil concentrate? ( @high leverage - Can you help me out on that one?) which should get rid of many of the weeds and maybe your poa annua.

My 0.02 would be, get crossbow or a three-way ester, spray everything that's broadleaf and then glyphosate or hand pull the poa annua and anything that survived. That solution would probably cost you $20-$30 depending on the size of the container. If you have a bunch of poa, we're going to start looking at simazine (what about a blanket spray of this? It's cheap and might knock out the poa and should control all the broad leaf, right?), katana, monument, revolver, celsius, and certainty.


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

It really comes down to how much money your willing to spend. There are many options. The one thing I wouldn't do is buy more traditional three way (2,4-D, MCPP, DIcamba) products if you already have Weed-B-Gone on hand. I can also tell you since there are already weeds present more are on the way. There just not visible yet.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Alright, cannot thank you all enough for your help. The weed killer I had was some Ace Hardware branded stuff that never worked much for me. I also have some Hi-Yield KillzAll that I used to clear behind my fence, that stuff works wonders but not too healthy for Bermuda lol! So I got some Hi-Yield 2,4-D. Mixed it at 8oz per gallon (directions say 1 gal/15 gal of water) and added some Dawn dish soap and went to town spraying EVERY weed I could see. Hopefully this kills them. I'll prob have to do it again after I get my pre-emergent down but it's a start. 

My next step is a new pre-emergent!
Will the Prodiamine really be better than the Blue Bag Scotts I can get anywhere? Or will Scotts be fine if I maybe do 3 applications instead of just two that I was doing??


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I would go with Prodiamine as the AI in the Scott's stuff is Pendimethalin and doesn't last as long a Prodiamine would and Prodiamine will control more weeds too.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Got it, thank you!

I'll order some. I have never used a liquid before. I hve a 4 gal backpack sprayer.

How do I mix it? How do I spray it (which tip)?

How many times a year and when do I apply it?


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

Kustrud said:


> Alright, cannot thank you all enough for your help. The weed killer I had was some Ace Hardware branded stuff that never worked much for me. I also have some Hi-Yield KillzAll that I used to clear behind my fence, that stuff works wonders but not too healthy for Bermuda lol! So I got some Hi-Yield 2,4-D. Mixed it at 8oz per gallon (directions say 1 gal/15 gal of water) and added some Dawn dish soap and went to town spraying EVERY weed I could see. Hopefully this kills them. I'll prob have to do it again after I get my pre-emergent down but it's a start.
> 
> My next step is a new pre-emergent!
> Will the Prodiamine really be better than the Blue Bag Scotts I can get anywhere? Or will Scotts be fine if I maybe do 3 applications instead of just two that I was doing??


I hate to tell you but the Hi-Yield you bought is the same as Weed-B-Gone minus dicamba and MCPP. If the Weed-Be-Gone didn't work I wouldn't have high hopes for the High Yield. In fact you took a step backwards.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Is there like a kill all post emergent that's safe on grass then??

What should I mix in besides dish soap??


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Kustrud said:


> Is there like a kill all post emergent that's safe on grass then??


Yes. I'd start here, and then go here. Don't sweat the winter weeds much.


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

Kustrud said:


> How do I spray it (which tip)?


Which tip? Ha ha. Are you sure you want to go down that rabbit hole? Prepare yourself... Go here


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

wardconnor said:


> Which tip? Ha ha. Are you sure you want to go down that rabbit hole? Prepare yourself... Go here


Sounds like someone opted for the red pill.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Alright good read on the triangle. I follow the "bible" as far as cutting, watering, fertilizers etc. and my lawn looked like a golf course last year. Just need to figure this pre and post emergent thing out. I'll order that stuff. Thanks guys!


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Alright, listened to ya'll and I took the plunge! Never spent anywhere close to that on weed control before but hopefully it lasts a while haha! I'll keep you all posted and I'm sure I'll have some questions on applying the Prodiamine.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Kustrud said:


> Alright, listened to ya'll and I took the plunge! Never spent anywhere close to that on weed control before but hopefully it lasts a while haha! I'll keep you all posted and I'm sure I'll have some questions on applying the Prodiamine.


Congrats on the purchase! I think you are set for the foreseeable future and now you can reap the benefits for years to come.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Kustrud said:


> Alright, listened to ya'll and I took the plunge! Never spent anywhere close to that on weed control before but hopefully it lasts a while haha! I'll keep you all posted and I'm sure I'll have some questions on applying the Prodiamine.


That's pretty much what I've been using on my lawn for several years now with no complaints. If I ever get to the bottom of my 1.3oz bottle of Sedgehammer, I may try Certainty.

My only nit would be it looks like you bought a single packet of Prosedge - which will only make one gallon to cover 1,000ft2. If you have a lot of sedge, that probably won't last long. I would just cross that bridge when you get there though. :thumbup:

Also, unless something has changed or you are paying photobucket, they may kill the link to the image you posted.


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