# Are there any guides/success stories out there for growing in moderate/dense shade?



## mot359 (Sep 28, 2019)

My backyard has a perimeter of large oak trees from my neighbors and the lawn struggles in some parts. The sunlight really varies depending on the time of year due to the angle of the sun position in the sky.

I'm wondering:


Is it is better for me to do spring or dormant seeding in this area to get as close to the summer solstice as possible when the angle is a bit better for getting sunlight?


Should I use shade tolerant TTTF/KBG or just stick to all fine fescue? Which subtype of fine fescue works best?


Are there any other general practices that differ greatly from the typical cool season lawn practices? (Fertilizer rates, watering rates, aerating, etc.)


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

I would start off with some TTTF. Whatever doesn't survive, then I would get a shade mix which will probably have FF, KBG, PR. If you follow MD law, you can use a max of 1.4 lbs of N/M (1000 sq ft) on FF. Check out the NCR/DMV thread in the maryland section for more info. I bought my mix from Chesapeake valley seed (blue label TTTF and a shade mix).

It'll probably never be great but some grass is better than none. I would also do a soil test to optimize the other growing conditions and also remove all the moss too. If it stays damp through summer, you could seed fall and spring to keep it thick. I imagine some will die every year so it'll probably need constant seeding to maintain it. In the shade, it usually won't need much water since the sun isn't drying it out. I like to mow at 2" but in the shade, I go with 3" since each blade could use as much sun as possible.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

My experience:

1. A part of my yard that gets about 1 hr of sunlight a day during the summer - kbg won't grow, prg won't grow, fescue grew and then died off.

2. A heavily shaded area with no direct sun - kbg grew sparsely and filled in, fescue grew great, prg wouldn't grow.

3. 4 hrs of sunlight - they all grew.

The fescue I used was the shaded blend from SSS.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

I agree...start with shade tolerant TTTF and maybe shade tolerant KBG added in, and work from there...

If those don't work, you can try Fine Fescues in this order (or a mix of several): Strong Creeping Red Fescue, Slender Creeping Red Fescue, Chewings Fescue, and then Hard Fescue. A last resort to try that someone just told me about to try after those is Sheep Fescue. I'm at the point of trying Hard Fescue in some areas where TTTF and CRF wouldn't grow well. I bypassed Chewings, and am going right to Hard Fescue. I'm going to try a dormant/Spring overseed there.

As far as timing, I would say you can do a late Summer seeding in shade starting in early August in your area (yes, while it's hot out...I would start in late July here as I'm slightly further North). Doesn't matter if it's in the 90s...the shade and proper watering will protect the grass. Dormant/Spring seeding is another option worth consideration in my opinion for shaded areas.

As far as fertilizer, one tip I heard was early Spring Nitrogen fertilization for shaded areas, using a low rate. A couple of weeks after green-up, no more than 0.25 lb/M, and possibly less. The idea is to get the Nitrogen down before the trees fully leaf out and block all the sun.

I am also playing with low rate foliar supplemental spoon-feeding apps in the Fall, because my shaded areas' grass is sparse and brown right now and I want it to be as strong as possible before Winter. I will then dormant seed with improved shade tolerant seed varieties in late Winter.


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## greengrass (Sep 9, 2018)

I seeded Mazama KBG from SSS in a heavily shaded area this Fall. Unfortunately, I didn't get any noticeable germination in that area. What did germinate seems to have died off already. May try plugging the area next spring with the Mazama from another area in the yard that germinated. The previous year I seeded Scotts Sun and Shade mix and it grew pretty well up until June when it started to die off in the summer heat, drought, heavy shade.


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## mot359 (Sep 28, 2019)

All the above approaches sound good, but it sounds like everyone is struggling a bit so I guess that's just the name of the game with a lot of shade.

@Green I'll definitely start my overseed earlier than September next year which is when I did this year; I'll just water through the heat and use a few fungicide apps to get me through it. Between the first frost hitting in the first week of November and the leaves starting to fall in October, it seems almost impossible to wait for cool temperatures to seed around here. I'll probably try to dormant seed the patchy areas with FF (my overseed was 90/10 shade tolerant TTTF/KBG this year) and also do a winterizer fertilizer to help with an early green up while the leaves are gone.

@Biggylawns I'm confused how your #1 scenario did better than #2. Fescue performed worse in one hour of sunlight than none? I used the TTTF shade mix from SSS this year, did you use that or their general shady mix?


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

@mot359 hmm yeah the way I wrote it is a little confusing. In #2, there is no direct sunlight because it's shaded by a large tree but I guess light can get through the leaves. The yard in #1 is blocked by my porch overhang in the morning except for the first hour of the day when the light goes under the overhang. After that hour, it's then blocked by the overhang and my house the entire day.

I used the normal shaded blend. It was just fescue when I bought it (I see that it now it contains mazama).


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

I have a deep shade area that I grow grass on (will be changing to some other type of ground cover eventually but it's turf for now). I do a heavy overseed with fescue mid to late September. It grows very slowly but pretty well for about a year and thins by late Summer. Overseed again, etc.

I didn't invent the idea - read about it somewhere. The theory is it's still growing and storing carbs when the leaves fall and it gets sunlight, and it wakes up late Winter before the leaves return. It stores enough or gets enough light to survive for a time but not for the long haul. It does work if you don't mind watching it decline and then overseeding again every year.


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## Butter (Nov 14, 2017)

A few years ago a friend, who owns a local nursery/garden store, gave me this tip for growing turf in shade.
Use less seed in the shade!
It seems like a good idea to throw more seed down in the shade but less seed equals less plants competing for the same light. The plants are then able to develop bigger and stronger and use the light they are getting.
I hope that makes sense. I have used this method with great success in TTTF in quite a bit of shade.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Butter said:


> A few years ago a friend, who owns a local nursery/garden store, gave me this tip for growing turf in shade.
> Use less seed in the shade!


Less seed, less water, less mowing, less fertilizer...


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

Green said:


> Butter said:
> 
> 
> > A few years ago a friend, who owns a local nursery/garden store, gave me this tip for growing turf in shade.
> ...


This makes a lot of sense. Do you think a grass like kbg would do better that way?

Why less fertilizer? And I understand the less plants situation but wouldn't trees steal most nutrition?(this maybe a stupid question)


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## mot359 (Sep 28, 2019)

I've heard both arguments that shade needs more water because the trees block a lot of the rainfall and the other end that they need less because of less pressure from the sun; there seems to be a lot of conflicting advice around it. I'll try another fall or two and then if no luck might just replace the areas with shade friendly landscaping.


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## Methodical (May 3, 2018)

All I can say is it's a constant battle. I don't care for the fine fescue grass varieties.

I've done a lot of pruning to get more light to the lawn, which has helped tremendously to the point that I will be planting KBG again next spring. I miss my KBG. There is an area under a tree in the back yard that thins out every year, but is very thick in the spring because there are no leaves on the tree and the lawn is receiving full sun. I will need to prune a few limbs and I think that will help that area to thrive more.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

uts said:


> Why less fertilizer? And I understand the less plants situation but wouldn't trees steal most of the nutrition?


Yeah, I think I you're right. But up to a point, shade is also going to reduce photosynthesis and growth (either growth rate or lateral growth), and therefore Nitrogen use. So it's not straightforward. Thanks for asking that.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Green said:


> I am also playing with low rate foliar supplemental spoon-feeding apps in the Fall, because my shaded areas' grass is sparse and brown right now and I want it to be as strong as possible before Winter. I will then dormant seed with improved shade tolerant seed varieties in late Winter.


To touch on this point, I tried some foliar apps this summer and fall (urea, Essential 1-0-1, kelp). It helped get the fertilizer directly to the grass plant, and avoided competition with the surface roots of the Norway maple in my yard. The turf looks a little stronger and more dense. I also tried a "drill and fill" hand aeration with a 13" long, 3/4" masonry bit, and used a funnel to fill with mason sand. The sand needs to be dry to flow easily through the funnel. I also fall seeded with a 3-way blend of Mazama, Beyond, and Bewitched, with a skim coat of topsoil for topdressing. I may dormant seed depending on the results this fall.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Maybe another suggestion, stop fighting it to keep something alive and embrace it.

Throw some Annual rye in that area, it will be a lawn in a week. Then just throw more down the next year.
Its cheap, and with heavy shade you probably only need to water it once or twice that first week to stay wet to germinate.


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## polofitted007 (Sep 16, 2019)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Maybe another suggestion, stop fighting it to keep something alive and embrace it.
> 
> Throw some Annual rye in that area, it will be a lawn in a week. Then just throw more down the next year.
> Its cheap, and with heavy shade you probably only need to water it once or twice that first week to stay wet to germinate.


Hmm, how does annual Rye blend in with Fescue? I guess anything looks better than bare spots...


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

polofitted007 said:


> Hmm, how does annual Rye blend in with Fescue? I guess anything looks better than bare spots...


It looks like an even lighter green version of KY-31 Tall Fescue almost, and with floppier blades. But the seeds can be an issue...it will reseed itself, potentially. If you don't want those getting into adjacent areas, probably not a good option.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

@Green has the right idea but try fescue if you're worried about annual rye not blending in. Fescue can make a pretty nice looking lawn in about four weeks. Maybe research a variety known for fast establishment.

When I do the shady spots every year I just use whatever I'm using that year. So far works out just fine.

I have switched a couple spots to liriope this Fall and plan on adding some pachysandra in another area at some point. Maybe some evergreen ferns too. Just tired of fighting it every year and I'm moving away from the monotony of turf everywhere.


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## jah (Jul 27, 2019)

We are in a similar climate. I started with pure hard fescue. It is a beautiful grass if not especially wear tolerant. I'm transitioning the full sun areas to tall fescue, as it gets burnt up in these areas, but where there is partial shade, the hard fescue does great. It will go dormant without water in the heat of summer but comes back well as long as you don't over fertilize and never apply N in spring/summer (trust me, I know from experience).


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