# Central Florida Lowering HOC On Empire Zoysia



## Rudyr89 (Aug 27, 2018)

Hi all, I had a landscaper take over my yard for a little over a year since work prevented me from staying on top of my lawn. I now took over the lawn and I want to lower the grass height. The landscaper had my empire zoysia at 4".. It got to the point where the tires would make the grass lay onto itself and everything under the tracks were dying. The grass is very patchy and has a bunch of thatch. I will take pictures when I get home. When I mentioned how bad the yard looked I found out it was his first house with zoysia. He was cutting it similar to St Augustine.

I have recently lowered the HOC to 3" and bagged it while doing so. I plan on lowering the HOC to 2.5" with my rotary mower since the yard is not even. The next notch down on my mower is 1 3/4". Should I work on scalping the lawn down to 1 3/4" in a few weeks?

There are a few spots in the lawn that seem to have so much thatch and clumps of grass from his mower that it killed anything underneath. I do plan on mixing top soil with sand and laying it down in those areas to see if it'll help. If not, I'll resod or pick up some zoysia plugs. I also have a company coming out that will fertilize the grass and keep an eye on it for me.

Any help would be extremely helpful! I'm overwhelmed at this point but I plan on turning this lawn around..


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@Rudyr89 if there was green grass in the areas where you now see nothing, don't fret. Zoysia will grow back from the roots, rhizomes and stolons. It will take a little while, because the grass has to establish new crowns for the shoots (blades) to grow from, but will be healthier once that happens.

As far as height, I would take it down now as far as you can without hitting dirt. Your grass will grow back in closer to the soil surface and leave you with a nicer turf. You will likely want/need to do this every Spring.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Working Zoysia down slowly prolongs the time it will be unattractive. Scalp it as low as you can go. Rotary mowers are not the best tool for maintaining Empire. Can be done but you need to limit fertilizer and water. With your location. limiting water is not going to happen.


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## Rudyr89 (Aug 27, 2018)

@Spammage I'll definitely get on lowering the height this week. I'll need to lower my sprinkler heads as well since they are sitting a little high. Should I still dethatch if I bringing the deck down as much as I can?

@Greendoc That was my concern as well. The HOA here can be quick a pain at times.. It hasn't rained here in quite a while so I think I might be able to beat the rain if I get on this ASAP.

As far as dethatching I'm about to order the Greenworks Dethatcher to help expedite getting this done. Unfortunately, Home Depot and Lowes doesn't rent out dethatchers near me. As for the reel mower I have a neighbor that has a pretty brand new Fiskars 18-inch reel mower. Is that something you would recommend?

Here are some pictures of the lawn. The dark area is some top soil/sand I laid down. If that doesn't work I'll order a pallet of zoysia. That spot had so much thatch the grass is gone lol.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

What you really need is a retiree from the golf course. I do not like to see rotary mowers on Zoysia ever. Even if you get the height of cut down, you will look at a lot of shredding of the leaves unless you raise the height of cut. Problem with keeping Zoysia above 3/4" is all of the thatch. I say mow it low keep it low and not go through the hassles every year.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Rudyr89 said:


> @Spammage I'll definitely get on lowering the height this week. I'll need to lower my sprinkler heads as well since they are sitting a little high. Should I still dethatch if I bringing the deck down as much as I can?


Depends on what you can get rid of. If you can expose dirt throughout, the dethatching may not be needed. Most of the lawn looks really thick though, so I'm guessing it's going to be needed.


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## Rudyr89 (Aug 27, 2018)

@Greendoc You're not kidding.. I know every grass has its pros and cons but what a pain! Since I'm on a corner lot the landscapers see $$$. I plan on turning the lawn around and promised the Wife I'll get it green. I'll lower the HOC and I'll invest in a used reel mower. If it's better for the grass and I don't have to deal with this hassle constantly I'm definitely for it.

@Spammage It definitely doesn't hurt to dethatch since I'm sure the landscaper never did it for me. Should I cut low then dethatch or vise versa?

I appreciate both of your help. I've been stressing over the lawn for a while now.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Scalping to dirt with a heavy duty reel is how I address incorrectly mowed Zoysia. In some cases, there are a lot of stolons and excessive rhizomes below the dirt. I did a bad one last year. El Toro Zoysia mowed with a Rotary for at least a decade. Took it down to dirt and let it grow. Your "landscapers" should have known better and run a greens mower on it. Mowing it at St Augustine height was just wrong.


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## Rudyr89 (Aug 27, 2018)

@Greendoc Wow, those reel mowers really get up there in price! I did find a mclane 10 blade for sale on eBay not too far from me. If I can't get my hands on that do you think the Fiskars staysharp reel would be good for the time being? My only concern is that my lawn isn't even at all.

The picture below is from a few months after I closed on my home. You can tell here how uneven it was from the start.










I should've definitely did my homework on the grass but figured the landscaper would be more than capable of handling it. For whatever reason the home builder decided on Zoysia vs St Augustine. Seems like it resulted in more work for me.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Go for a 7 blade McLane. The 10s are for grass kept at 3/8 or lower


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Know that replacing consumables on a McLane is the same price or similar to buying a GM 1000 or 1600 retiring from golf course duty.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> Know that replacing consumables on a McLane is the same price or similar to buying a GM 1000 or 1600 retiring from golf course duty.


I would also point out that a McLane really isn't heavy enough to do it's job on zoysia. A TruCut is the least I would recommend, but a greens mower would be preferable if you can get an affordable one.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

So true. Although thick Zoysia is a challenge for the Tru Cuts as well. I saw a homeowner blow his clutch shaft assembly up trying to take down Zoysia.


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## Rudyr89 (Aug 27, 2018)

I found a 2016 TruCut C27 for $600. What do you guys think? I could probably sell my Honda HRR216VKA for about $300 to offset the cost.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Sounds like a good deal. That's what I use, but only because I have two kids in college and a third about to start. Once that is done, a GM1600 will be mine. :twisted:


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Keep the Rotary You need that for debris pick up and scalping.


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## bigmks (May 22, 2018)

Can you upload the pictures? I'm very interested being I have this particular strand of zyosia. This will be my first season with it. I want to make sure I don't run into this problem. Mines was installed in November. It should fully take root by the end of spring. My plan is to keep it around 1" to 3/4 depending on how level my yards turn out. My greens mower is currently set A 1" to start. For the first couple of mows I probably will use the rotary mower being the grass has not grown much from being installed. I tell you what its still green!!


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## Rudyr89 (Aug 27, 2018)

@Spammage LOL I hear that! No kids here yet so I need to get a hold of all the toys while I can. Unfortunately, the mower sold a week ago and the seller never took down the listing. I'll keep looking on Craigslist to see if anything pops up. In the meantime I might just use the neighbors Fiskars StaySharp reel until I find something. I'll also test out a section with the rotary at 2.5" when it greens up to compare the difference.

I did scalp my side yard yesterday down to 1.75" yesterday. Any shorter I would've taken out a bunch of sprinkler heads. I'm thinking next spring I'll lower the height to 1 1/8" which is the lowest my mower can cut. I'll work on lowering those sprinkler heads as well. The looks I received from neighbors was priceless. Everyone of course has to stop and ask why I'm "killing" the yard. I filled up 12 42 gallon bags. I'm not even halfway done. On the side yard I ran the mower front to back as well as left to right. I ended up trimming everything as even as possible this way.

What a dusty dirty job lol. I'll post some pictures once I'm done scalping the entire yard. I will be dethatching the yard with the Greenworks dethatcher this weekend as well.

@bigmks are you not able to see the pictures in the earlier post above? I see them fine on my end here.


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## bigmks (May 22, 2018)

No I cant see them at all?


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## Visitor (Jul 23, 2018)

+1 on images not showing. Just has an image Icon (mobile chrome)


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## Rudyr89 (Aug 27, 2018)

I just changed the host. They should be good now. Sorry about that!


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@Rudyr89 So are your sprinkler heads above the soil surface? If so, I'm surprised you don't have constant issues kicking/tripping over them and breaking them. If that is your only obstacle to going lower, mark them and work around them safely, then clean up around them with a string trimmer.


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## Rudyr89 (Aug 27, 2018)

@Spammage they are indeed.. The landscaping company our builder used to install everything was horrible. They eventually got rid of them but I'm stuck with the aftermath.


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## Rudyr89 (Aug 27, 2018)

Quick question for you guys. Should I be watering the newly scalped lawn more frequently while it greens up?


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Rudyr89 said:


> Quick question for you guys. Should I be watering the newly scalped lawn more frequently while it greens up?


It will dry out quicker than it otherwise would, but I would be surprised if you have to water it, unless you also hammered it with fast release fertilizer. Don't you guys typically get rain every couple of days?


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## Rudyr89 (Aug 27, 2018)

@Spammage Oh yeah we normally get rain every day for about 30 minutes but that doesn't start until April-May. It's been pretty dry here so far.


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## Rudyr89 (Aug 27, 2018)

@Spammage @Greendoc This is what the grass looked like after scalping last weekend. I know you're supposed to scalp the closest you can without hitting dirt but I couldn't scalp at the lowest setting because my sprinklers were too high. This was scalped at 2.5". I'm thinking about lowering the 13 sprinklers that are too high and going down to 1 3/4".










































There is still a good amount of "straw" looking grass. So this is why I'm thinking I'll definitely need to put some more work into the lawn this weekend. What do you guys think? Drop it another notch and take it down? I looked up lowering a sprinkler head and it seemed easy enough to knock out before scalping again.


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## raymond (May 4, 2018)

I think your plan to lower the sprinkler heads and bring it down to 1.75 should be absolutely fine. Like you said, as long as your not hitting dirt. :thumbup:


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@Rudyr89 the goal is to get rid of as much of the "straw" as possible. If you notice in your last picture, you have green growth starting at 2+ inches from the soil. Ideally those crowns (growth points) would be right at the soil level. As I recommended earlier, I would mark the sprinkler heads, scalp as low as you can while avoiding them, and then trim up around them with a string trimmer. You then provide yourself with the needed time to lower the heads into the soil.


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## Rudyr89 (Aug 27, 2018)

I scalped the yard down last week like you guys said. I scalped it down to 1 3/4". I plan on cutting it at 2" so we'll see how it goes! *I also received a letter from my HOA regarding the lawn too. * :lol:

The lawn company that fertilizes the yard asked why I scalped the entire lawn. I tried explaining the methods of scalping during the spring and keeping it short. He looked at me like I had 2 heads and stated he never heard such a thing. Makes me wonder if I should really trust them with fertilizing the yard.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@Rudyr89 that's funny. In a month when you are dominating the neighborhood, people will start asking questions, and next year you will probably see more peeps scalping their own lawns.

Edit - and I would definitely be questioning the fert guy who has never heard of scalping a warm season grass.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

If the fert guy knew his stuff he would be telling you to go lower.


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## Rucraz2 (Apr 8, 2018)

Where are you at in central Fl? We are looking to move down to Jax area for work. From se Minnesota. Looking at the Nocatee area. I have a lot to learn about this warm season grass. But have a gm 1600 that is going to be first in the list. Now just deciding on what grass to renovate with. Do you have a lot of issues with hoa ? Would I get heckled for doing a reno? Sorry didn't mean to hijack your thread.


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## Rudyr89 (Aug 27, 2018)

Wanted to post an update for you guys. This is about a month between scalping.. Do you think I should dethatch again ? I'm sure my mower didn't pick everything up or should I just let it run its course.

*BEFORE 3/9/2019*

















*CURRENT 4/8/2019*









*BEFORE 3/9/2019*









*CURRENT 4/8/2019*









*BEFORE 3/9/2019*

















*CURRENT 4/8/2019*

















@Rucraz2 I'm in Clermont. I'm also in a brand new neighborhood so I think they are being more of a pain in the *** because they are still selling brand new homes here.


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## Rudyr89 (Aug 27, 2018)

Hey all.. What are the chances my lawn is still somewhat dormant? We still haven't received much rain yet. My neighbors lawns are all greening up but mine is still pretty brown. Any ideas?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

If you half scalp vs taking it all off, Zoysia will look bad for a long time


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Zoysia can be temperamental, but it should be fine with warming temps.


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## NeVs (Aug 17, 2018)

Rudyr89 said:


> Hey all.. What are the chances my lawn is still somewhat dormant? We still haven't received much rain yet. My neighbors lawns are all greening up but mine is still pretty brown. Any ideas?


I have Zorro zoysia which is known to green up earlier and go dormant later than most zoysia's. It just woke up Bout 2-3 weeks ago.im in houston.


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## NeVs (Aug 17, 2018)

Rudyr89 said:


> Hey all.. What are the chances my lawn is still somewhat dormant? We still haven't received much rain yet. My neighbors lawns are all greening up but mine is still pretty brown. Any ideas?


I have Zorro zoysia which is known to green up earlier and go dormant later than most zoysia's. It just woke up Bout 2-3 weeks ago.im in houston.


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## Owens_Geo (Jun 24, 2018)

I have geo zoysia in New Orleans, it takes a real long time to get going after a scalp this time of year. It's been about 8 weeks since I did a full scalp, and it's only about 70% recovered. Mid May is when mine really gets going. Hang in there...


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## mdmack (Aug 21, 2018)

Iv'e got Empire in NW florida (Pensacola). I scalped in mid march and mine is just now getting to around 90% and really waking up. Empire Zoysia likes warm nights so when you walk out in the morning and immediately feel sticky, then you know its about to wake up. Ill also reiterate what a bunch of folks have already said. When you scalp it next time, take it down to basically dirt. You want to get all those stems (straw looking stuff) cut off as low as possible so the blades will grow tight to the dirt. At the absolute least you need to scalp lower than you are trying to maintain it or you will see the stems all season long. Every spring you need to take it down as low as possible.


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