# Peat moss won't get wet!



## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

So I just finished overseeding and seeding a bunch of repair spots and I tried soaking the peat moss really well but it just will not stay wet. How much should I be watering this in for the first time?


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

I just look for the color change. If it's light brown it's dry, if it's dark brown it's wet enough.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

The very very top is wet and if you scrape your finger across it there is dry peat moss there and the soil under that is dry as can be. I may be a little thick in spots but for the most part it's under 1/4". I completely soaked the areas 3-4 times already and only on the last one has it not started drying out. Before by the time I worked my way around the lawn by the time I got back to the beginning it would be mostly dry already. Will the bottom layer eventually get wet or am I screwed?


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

I noticed the same thing when I watered. But the water must get through to the seed because I've got lots of new grass. Initially, when temps were higher, I was watering 3x per day to keep it moist. And even then it occasionally started to look dry.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Try spraying some baby shampoo on it. Peat moss is hydrophobic when it's dry, but shampoo helps.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> Try spraying some baby shampoo on it. Peat moss is hydrophobic when it's dry, but shampoo helps.


my problem now is the very top is wet but the rest is dry. Will shampoo help it work in?


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

Give it more water!


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

b0nk3rs said:


> j4c11 said:
> 
> 
> > Try spraying some baby shampoo on it. Peat moss is hydrophobic when it's dry, but shampoo helps.
> ...


I'd say it is a safe bet that it will. 3oz/1k is kind of a standard rate. My only question is whether baby shampoo and seed germination are ok together. j4c11 or others: can you confirm that this combo isn't counterproductive?

Also, would humic acid help here? I seem to recall that it helps with moisture retention. I know several forum members use it at seed-down.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

Sinclair said:


> Give it more water!


I guess i'll see what happens with my morning water :|


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Baby shampoo won't affect germination. It should help "wet" the peat moss.


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

Is it clumpy? Did you break up the clumps when you took it out of the bag and spread it?


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

wardconnor said:


> Is it clumpy? Did you break up the clumps when you took it out of the bag and spread it?


It was not clumpy at all out of the bag and i spread it all by rubbing it between my hands. I'm starting to not like this peat moss stuff lol.


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

Honestly I think you are over thinking it. The seed doesn't need to be soggy. The moistute is there let nature do its thing now


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

GrassDaddy said:


> Honestly I think you are over thinking it. The seed doesn't need to be soggy. The moistute is there let nature do its thing now


Well I checked this morning which was VERY dewy and still the underneath layer of peat is dry and the soil has no hint of moisture at all.

I'll have to try some baby shampoo in a pump sprayer around lunch time and see if it helps.

Also, I'll work on some pictures.


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## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

I had this same problem last year when I seeded some dead spots. I could not get it wet enough underneath. Then hurricane Mathew dumped 6" of rain, and where the peat washed together, I thought "surely its wet now...." Nope, still dry underneath the clumps.

This year when I seeded my little reno area, I did a light (and I mean light) dusting of peat. I then took the hand wand and used the misting setting for an hour, then switched to the fan setting amd water a light mist for another hour. Took a while, but this worked. Got the peat wet the first day, and kept it wet. At first I was watering 6 times a day for 5 minutes, going for damp with no pooling. Keep in mind it was 90° for 2 weeks after I seeded and this area gets blasted with sun all day. So, ymmv.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

GrassDaddy said:


> Honestly I think you are over thinking it. The seed doesn't need to be soggy. The moistute is there let nature do its thing now


Agreed. My peat moss was dry if you pulled the top back and yet I have grass somehow. Consistent watering will be key. The grass will grow :thumbup:


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

If I had more seed left I would just scrape this soggy mess up and redo it but were looking at another $110 for the smallest bag of my mix.

You guys are giving me a little hope though!


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

How many sq.ft. should this 2.2 cu.ft. bag cover at 1/4"?

https://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/gardening/lawn-plant-care/compost-soils-amendments/sphagnum-peat-moss-2-2-cu-ft/p-1444451345179-c-1463608034794.htm?tid=4326462373050904890&ipos=2


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

social port said:


> b0nk3rs said:
> 
> 
> > j4c11 said:
> ...


+1 (been wanting to do that).

There are some who will spray that dilution of Dawn dish detergent right over the seeds to help water stick to 'em.

Extra points for using a non-ionic surfactant that you might have lying around with your Tenacity?


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

GrassDaddy said:


> Honestly I think you are over thinking it. The seed doesn't need to be soggy. The moistute is there let nature do its thing now


You should have linked in your peat moss video... I thought that was pretty slick.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

When I got home around 12:30 everything was bone dry. I spent all afternoon using baby shampoo in a pump sprayer with not much luck. By the time I finished everything was thoroughly soaked on top yet just below the surface was still dry peat moss and dry soil.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

How long are you watering for?


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

ericgautier said:


> How long are you watering for?


I have mostly been hand watering all these spots so far, seed went down yesterday afternoon. Some of the spots I completely soaked 6 different times just this afternoon and within 30 mins in the sun it will be mostly dry. I watered really well this morning at 730 and by 1230 when I got home is when there was absolutely no moisture anywhere except a few spots in the shade. Just the very very top gets wet so it burns off in the sun extremely quickly.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

^ I don't think you are applying enough water. I normally water the soil heavy before the peat moss. I then use a sprinkler to get the peat moss a constant light dose. Too much at once makes it float above the water and it doesn't get absorb. I also like to mix in some topsoil with the peat moss.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

g-man said:


> ^ I don't think you are applying enough water. I normally water the soil heavy before the peat moss. I then use a sprinkler to get the peat moss a constant light dose. Too much at once makes it float above the water and it doesn't get absorb. I also like to mix in some topsoil with the peat moss.


Mistakes have been made.

How do I fix this now? I fear if I do any type of mixing my seed is going to be incredibly patchy.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Is it KBG? Might not be the end of the world as that stuff tends to spread pretty well.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

BXMurphy said:


> Is it KBG? Might not be the end of the world as that stuff tends to spread pretty well.


80% KBG, 20% PRG


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You threw the seed yesterday, you still have time. I would add topsoil and rake it to mix it, then walk over it to get good soil to seed contact and then water it. Let it soak, then water again, repeat until it stays wet for more than 30min. Keep watching it and water again as soon as it starts to dry up again.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

If you are hand-watering, I'm thinking this is not a large area and that g-man is right.

Up your water for moist, not soggy. Try watering more often rather than drowning to soggy. Get some patches growing and I bet it fills in this spring.

I think you will be surprised... this stuff just naturally wants to grow... just like weeds. You kind of have to premeditate murder to kill it.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

It's a lot of patches all around my lawn so it's a lot of work hand watering it all. Impact sprinklers have been too harsh on it so far so I've been keeping them on the overseed areas for now.


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## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

When you water the first time, use the mist setting on hose end thingy... Yes, it will take forever. Or use the flat fan setting and hold it up high. Light water is key so it doesn't float like g-man said.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

b0nk3rs said:


> It's a lot of patches all around my lawn so it's a lot of work hand watering it all. Impact sprinklers have been too harsh on it so far so I've been keeping them on the overseed areas for now.


Well... in that case, what *I* would do is get solid on my cultural practices and let Mother Nature help out.

Please forgive these questions:

Are you watering an 1" per week all at once?

Are you mowing high and not cutting off more than 1/3 per cut?

Are you providing half a pound to a pound of nitrogen per month?

Are you using a slow-release source of Nitrogen during the summer?

Are you using a pre-emergent herbicide to control weeds?

Extra points... Did you get a soil test?

These are basics and are assumed. That's why I beg your forbearance in even asking. Get these right and you will see just AMAZING results in just one growing season - seed or no seed.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

BXMurphy said:


> b0nk3rs said:
> 
> 
> > It's a lot of patches all around my lawn so it's a lot of work hand watering it all. Impact sprinklers have been too harsh on it so far so I've been keeping them on the overseed areas for now.
> ...


I understand your reason for asking, it helps judge my level of understanding....responses are bolded above.

With that being said, the reason for all of these seeded spots are due to manually removing tall fescue clumps, two trees that were removed, repaired/seeded ground by a utility company that needed redone, and some bare areas due to some nasty crabgrass which was killed off and removed.

I overseeded the entire lawn at 2lb/1000 and hand spread the bare spots at 4lb/1000. all spots with the peat moss were lightly cultivated, topsoiled, starter fertilized, seeded, lightly raked in, peat mossed, and THEN watered.

This is in fact my first time doing this sort of thing but I did a LOT of research and don't know if I just overlooked some of the little things that go along with using peat moss or maybe I just didn't see any of that explained anywhere. I have been rewetting non stop since 12:30 and don't see any progress on the dry peat underneat getting moist yet. I will continue misting it all tomorrow morning as needed but at this point I fear it will need mixed up. I may pick a patch on the side yard and see what happens if I try and get the top layer to stick to something and pull up. I'm tempted to order another 10lb's of seed and start over lol.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

LawnNerd said:


> When you water the first time, use the mist setting on hose end thingy... Yes, it will take forever. Or use the flat fan setting and hold it up high. Light water is key so it doesn't float like g-man said.


Unfortunately it is too late for this but I have since started doing this and will definitely do it in the future!


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

BXMurphy said:


> If you are hand-watering, I'm thinking this is not a large area and that g-man is right.
> 
> Up your water for moist, not soggy. Try watering more often rather than drowning to soggy. Get some patches growing and I bet it fills in this spring.
> 
> I think you will be surprised... this stuff just naturally wants to grow... just like weeds. You kind of have to premeditate murder to kill it.


The problem is the seed/soil is not getting wet at all, its still as dry as it was when I started.

All the watering and walking around has the overseeded areas getting a lot of extra moisture and trampling.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

Adding a few pictures for reference.


I watered pretty heavily at 7:30 and when I got home at 12:30 everything that was in the sun looked like this.


This was also at 12:30 when I got home. You can see where it had been in the shade for a while in the morning and was starting to quickly dry up.


This picture looks kinda funky but you can see the top is very wet, the peat just beneath it is dry, and the soil has not seen a hint of water. This area had been hand watered to a completely soaked state no less than 6 different times. This was the thickest spot I found.


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## kds (Apr 28, 2017)

b0nk3rs said:


> How many sq.ft. should this 2.2 cu.ft. bag cover at 1/4"?
> 
> https://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/gardening/lawn-plant-care/compost-soils-amendments/sphagnum-peat-moss-2-2-cu-ft/p-1444451345179-c-1463608034794.htm?tid=4326462373050904890&ipos=2


According to this, about 110 sq ft.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

You're a good egg, bonks. You are pretty much where I am in lawn care. Those are not really big areas (but aggravating, nonetheless).

You are doing all the right things. If you can get a plant or two to grow, you are WAY ahead of the power curve. Nature will fill that in provided you lock out your weeds.

I did the same thing as you... pulled out this and that... bare spots... soil tests... bah!

I haven't even thrown down some seed! But I will... probably sometime next week. If it grows, it grows.

This is a throw-away season for guys like you and me. We are going to "do something" and see what happens.

I am at 3.5 inches during the summer. I am currently struggling to get down to 2" between rain and watering and not violating the 1/3" rule (which is working WONDERS, I might add). Don't scalp, right?

Then I'm going to try my first-ever app of Tenacity with my new backpack sprayer after worrying it to death with calibrating it.

This will lock out winter weeds but allow for seeding. Then I'll come in with prodiamine in the spring to lock out summer weeds. I'll apply prodiamine at a rate that will wear off by mid-August and see what I have. At this point, I will have a pretty good idea of what needs doing.

Maybe I'll renovate some areas starting in July if I hate what I'm seeing. Maybe I'll decide to get serious with what I've learned so far. Who know?

For me and where I am, this year is toast. Next year? I'm King of the Hill and Talk of the Neighborhood!


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

BXMurphy said:


> You're a good egg, bonks. You are pretty much where I am in lawn care. Those are not really big areas (but aggravating, nonetheless).
> 
> You are doing all the right things. If you can get a plant or two to grow, you are WAY ahead of the power curve. Nature will fill that in provided you lock out your weeds.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you have a plan!


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

Update from the morning watering...

Not making any progress, spent 2 hours misting and were still drying out really quickly.

I am noticing that some spots are starting to thin really bad (I assume from all the watering?), so i have a mix of peat and bare spots in most of these areas. Seed is getting moist in these spots but I fear with the amount of sun its going to be impossible to keep it that way.

I'm completely out of topsoil, peat moss, and seed. I guess I will try mixing one of the spots up and see what i'm left with. What can I use to cover this once I do that? most of my peat moss spots are in sun a majority of the day.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

I tried watering around it, and waters runs under the dry peat moss spot, but if the dry spot is too big I direct a jet of water on the spot to brake it apart a bit. And it worked.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

Thoughts on this spot in terms of moisture, coverage, etc? The same spot zoomed in each time.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Poor bugger... You know what?... screw the peat moss. It sounds like you are working overtime trying to grow peat moss.

Those are bare spots, right? Most people just sow and scratch into the surface.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

BXMurphy said:


> Poor bugger... You know what?... screw the peat moss. It sounds like you are working overtime trying to grow peat moss.
> 
> Those are bare spots, right? Most people just sow and scratch into the surface.


My problem from the beginning has been that the peat moss is blocking the water from reaching the soil beneath it. I have now had two neighbors warn me that I could be drowning the seeds because I am out there watering so much. I try and explain that just the top layer of peat moss is getting wet and then drying out in the sun within an hour but they don't seem to understand. The problem I fear right now is that in the process of trying to soak through the peat, I have drowned a lot of seed in the spots where the peat has withered away over the past few days. Since I have been slowly losing peat moss as I water, I am getting soil wet in spots, so I have a little hope for germination in the next few days.

Some of those peat-less areas appear extremely dry just an hour or two after I water so I am just hoping there's a tiny bit of moisture in there still keeping my little babies alive. I guess I will continue my 3x a day watering and hope I see some germination here in the next few days. At this point I stopped caring and have accepted the fact that I may have botched this and I am just hoping for the best.

I feel so defeated :|


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

This is one of my favorite threads. Such a heroic effort. It's as admirable as it is humorous. Like a tragic comedy. I don't want to come off as sounding mean.

I still think you are going to be fine. I think earlier you mentioned that you sowed into ground that was dry to six inches. All the water that you are putting down now is being sucked into the dry ground. Poke down a bit and see if the first inch is moistening up.

Those seeds ain't dead yet! They are just taunting you. It's cooling down, rain is coming. Your efforts will be rewarded.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

BXMurphy said:


> This is one of my favorite threads. Such a heroic effort. It's as admirable as it is humorous. Like a tragic comedy. I don't want to come off as sounding mean.
> 
> I still think you are going to be fine. I think earlier you mentioned that you sowed into ground that was dry to six inches. All the water that you are putting down now is being sucked into the dry ground. Poke down a bit and see if the first inch is moistening up.
> 
> Those seeds ain't dead yet! They are just taunting you. It's cooling down, rain is coming. Your efforts will be rewarded.


Ground wasn't terribly dry, i had watered a bit to soften up for core aeration and it was pulling some decent plugs which were moist throughout the 3 inch plug. However, I did not water in the day and a half between then and when I seeded.

If I burrow down through the peat moss I still get dry peat below the very top layer and the soil has no moisture at all. If I accidentally drag the hose over a patch it will grab the wet peat and expose completely dry and light brown colored peat below it.

I'm making progress, but its SLOW. I put seed down on Thursday and it's now Sunday and I have quite a few areas of seed that are yet to see any moisture. Some of my patches are holding water longer than previous days so I'm gaining progress on that front. Hopefully these soak through to the soil in the next day or two.


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## Vols_fan08 (Jul 10, 2017)

I have to agree about this peat moss mess. Geez. Just get it in the dirt and keep moist like it's been working for centuries. Lol. I think you'll be fine like Murph said.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

I ended up doing two things. I ran my hands over the layer of peat moss spreading it around more and mixing it up and bringing the dry stuff to the surface. I watered the piss out of it for a few days after this and seemed to have moistened everything completely. I was surprised how easily I could keep the soil and seeds mostly untouched while working the peat moss. I've since achieved germination in some areas of most of these spots, just waiting to see if I managed to salvage full coverage.

I don't have much hope for the overseed as all this extra work and hand watering has left the in-tact portions of my lawn absolutely trampled to hell.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

b0nk3rs said:


> I don't have much hope for the overseed as all this extra work and hand watering has left the in-tact portions of my lawn absolutely trampled to hell.


 But on the other hand... you're going to have some wicked good peat moss! You will be the envy of the neighborhood. You know... as far as peat moss goes...

Sorry about that, Bonks. I couldn't resist...


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## jimmy (Jul 25, 2017)

BXMurphy said:


> But on the other hand... you're going to have some wicked good peat moss! You will be the envy of the neighborhood. You know... as far as peat moss goes...
> 
> Sorry about that, Bonks. I couldn't resist...


💯


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

I'm going to throw my $0.02 in this thread, and suggest that you abandon the peat moss, and get some of the shredded cellulose fibers, which is the stuff that is used in hydroseeding. I picked up a bale and spread it by hand on the parkways at my house at the beginning of my renovation, since I had a washout 2 days after I put seed down. The fiber holds water, as well as giving the seed a good surface to germinate in. I've had fantastic results with the product. It wasn't that much, I think around $17 for the bale, and a little bit goes a long way. I think you'd have better success by throwing down some more seed, and covering it with this product. Get a Garden Weasel to work the seed into the ground, and then toss on some mulch.

If I had some daylight, I'd go outside and show you how it looks now. Man, you'd be amazed.

http://www.hydrocovermulch.com/products/triplestart™-3-1-advanced-technology-mulching-granules


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

My peat is doing just fine now. It was an epic battle but a lot of hours hand watering, a lot of working from home, and plenty of determination, were a recipe for success.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

b0nk3rs said:


> My peat is doing just fine now. It was an epic battle but a lot of hours hand watering, a lot of working from home, and plenty of determination, were a recipe for success.


Glad to hear. Keep at it :thumbup:


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Good for you, bonks! That's terrific news.

That was epic. Such a shame you had to go through all that. Before you know it, you'll be posting pictures of your fabulous new lawn.


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## Fronta1 (Jul 11, 2017)

Forgive me but I don't understand. The water has to go somewhere. Unless it is pooling on top and running off the water will eventually make its way down. If it isn't, then it is evaporating faster than you can apply it. Perhaps you're underestimating how much watering is required to soak the soil. Most sprinkler systems take several hours to apply one inch of water. If you're hand watering, it would take much longer. If the sun is strong, it would take even longer.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Fronta1 said:


> Forgive me but I don't understand. The water has to go somewhere. Unless it is pooling on top and running off the water will eventually make its way down. If it isn't, then it is evaporating faster than you can apply it. Perhaps you're underestimating how much watering is required to soak the soil. Most sprinkler systems take several hours to apply one inch of water. If you're hand watering, it would take much longer. If the sun is strong, it would take even longer.


That's what I was thinking. I never had pooling and it was dry if I scraped away a touch of the peat moss. But, the seed under was always damp looking. So it was somehow making its way down quickly.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

Fronta1 said:


> Forgive me but I don't understand. The water has to go somewhere. Unless it is pooling on top and running off the water will eventually make its way down. If it isn't, then it is evaporating faster than you can apply it. Perhaps you're underestimating how much watering is required to soak the soil. Most sprinkler systems take several hours to apply one inch of water. If you're hand watering, it would take much longer. If the sun is strong, it would take even longer.


I would soak it to the point of it starting to pool and it would not work its way down. With just the very top of the peat getting wet, it would dry out in the sun extremely quickly. I was essentially walking laps around my lawn with the hose wetting each spot repeatedly in hopes it would start working in. On occasions where I was gone for a few hours it would dry out to the point where I was basically starting the process over from square 1.

Eventually from all the wind blowing around the dry peat moss, it started thinning out and showing bare soil, once the soil started taking moisture it helped tremendously with wetting the rest of the peat moss. Once this started happening I was able to take the remaining piled up peat moss spots and sort of mix it up and spread it around more evenly and I have been fine since.

In a nut shell, the ground underneath was too dry, and my initial watering in of the peat moss was too light and only the top layer was retaining moisture for the first few days.


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## LIgrass (May 26, 2017)

b0nk3rs said:


> Thoughts on this spot in terms of moisture, coverage, etc? The same spot zoomed in each time.


That definitely looks dry. What you need to do is run a light mist over it for as long as you need to really soak it in. Pick up a nozzle that has a mist or shower feature. Peat moss can almost become hydrophobic if you don't get it really saturated from the get go.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

LIgrass said:


> b0nk3rs said:
> 
> 
> > Thoughts on this spot in terms of moisture, coverage, etc? The same spot zoomed in each time.
> ...


Didn't really get many bites on those pictures but originally I wanted to see what people had to say without telling them the timeline of watering. This was less than an hour after I had completely soaked the area with the mist setting, and probably the 5th or 6th time doing so already that day.


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## Alias-Doe (Aug 9, 2019)

I had a similar problem when I dropped my seed and I came to the conclusion that I used too much peat moss in some areas . Once I spread it around to a very thin layer it worked out perfectly. Thin layer as in barley covering the soil . If it's sunny with no clouds and above 85 degrees there's nothing you can do to prevent drying other than watering every 1-3 hours . Get you a couple MP rotators they're perfect for seed they don't use as much water so you can run it more frequently .


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Alias-Doe FYI, this is from 2017. I'm pretty sure the peat moss is gone. 

One good strategy, get the seed down and get the area wet, really wet. Apply anything you want in the soil (eg tenacity). Then apply the peat in a thin layer. You can apply the peat the day after seed.


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## Alias-Doe (Aug 9, 2019)

g-man said:


> @Alias-Doe FYI, this is from 2017. I'm pretty sure the peat moss is gone.
> 
> One good strategy, get the seed down and get the area wet, really wet. Apply anything you want in the soil (eg tenacity). Then apply the peat in a thin layer. You can apply the peat the day after seed.


Lol .. it was on the first page of the cool season forum . I wonder how his grass turned out .


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@b0nk3rs how is the lawn?


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

Good, it's pretty low maintenance now that I got everything sorted out!


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