# Question....Two Different Lawns



## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

I have Bermuda in the front and either Centipede or St Aug in the back. I use the same mower front and back. I DO NOT want any of whatever is in the back getting in my Bermuda. I thought it was crabgrass at first but I may have some small patches. Could using the same mower on both make it spread into the Bermuda?

If it turns out that it is the other grass in the Bermuda and it cannot spread from using the same mower then
I will plug it all out and put Bermuda plugs in it's place.

Let me know! Are these weeds/crabgrass or the other grass mixed in?


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## FlaDave (Jul 10, 2018)

It looks like there's st. Aug in your bermuda. Follow a blade of the grass down to the dirt and see if there's a runner. If there is pull one up and post a picture.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

FlaDave said:


> It looks like there's st. Aug in your bermuda. Follow a blade of the grass down to the dirt and see if there's a runner. If there is pull one up and post a picture.


Gosh I rest hope not! How the heck would I fix that? Is there a herbicide that'll kill St Aug and not Bermuda?

I'll get one tomorrow.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Or it's just crabgrass.

Did you apply any pre emergent this year? If so, what, when, and how much?


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> Or it's just crabgrass.
> 
> Did you apply any pre emergent this year? If so, what, when, and how much?


We just moved in 4 weeks ago and I have been renovating the lawn. So I put some down (Dimension) immediately when we moved in as I saw the weeds but I have no idea if previous owners did.

Should I hit it with Celsius and see what happens?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

If you have Celsius, I think that's an easy start. I'd suggest medium rate with a NIS, so that way you can follow up with another app in a few weeks. Expect it to take 2-3 weeks to get a kill. It's not going to turn brown overnight.


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## Stellar P (Apr 13, 2018)

Kustrud said:


> FlaDave said:
> 
> 
> > It looks like there's st. Aug in your bermuda. Follow a blade of the grass down to the dirt and see if there's a runner. If there is pull one up and post a picture.
> ...


 :lol: You fart on my St. Aug and it dies!


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

So after looking more and pulling these up, I think I have some St Aug in my Bermuda! What ya think? Look like it?

How can I kill it?!

It's fine in the back but my front looks good and I do not want this mixing in!


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

St Aug has boatshaped blades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Augustine_grass#/media/File:Staugustinegrass.JPG

Any chance that's common bermuda?


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> St Aug has boatshaped blades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Augustine_grass#/media/File:Staugustinegrass.JPG
> 
> Any chance that's common bermuda?


No, the bermuda that it is in looks completely different. I'm almost positive it's St Aug. Let me take a couple more pictures where it's bad and maybe that'll help.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

I wanted to make sure it wasn't hybrid bermuda vs common bermuda. Their leaf blades aren't the same size.


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## FlaDave (Jul 10, 2018)

I don't see any st aug there. Could that be torpedo grass? I see what looks like bermuda runners there but those wide blades make me think otherwise. I'm interested in the answer cause I've seen that around my lawn also. I think celcius killed it.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

**Note - I'm not 100% backyard is St Aug, (this is what I'm calling it) but I think it is haha and the stuff I'm dealing with below looks like what's in the back.**

Alright, here's a bunch of pictures to show you what I'm dealing with. Backyard I have a pretty nice St Aug lawn, front is a very nice Bermuda lawn (this one is my pride and joy haha). The side yard is crap, no sun - I'm just going to cover it in mulch probably. Anyway the St Aug slowly creeps up the side yard and fades as it gets to the front Bermuda which is another reason why I believe there are a couple of spots of it in the Bermuda front.

Here's pics of the backyard St Aug close up and some examples of patches of it by itself. This stuff looks exactly like what's in the backyard for grass. Also a pic of the side yard.









Now here's some pics of where it is mixed in the front/side where it's thin, also a pic mixed in the nice thick bermuda - it's not many places upfront and they're only about 2x2 feet so I could probably take an hour and pull it all if I have to and let the Bermuda fill back in. Also a pic of the front.







What do you guys think?


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Here's a couple pics of the backyard by itself.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Front:


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Appreciate all of the help! Need to figure this out!


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@Kustrud that looks like a zoysia japonica to me. Unfortunately, it won't be easy to get rid of in bermuda. Greendoc has mentioned Sencor and Tenacity as a combo to kill it, but it will ding the bermuda. Do a search on the forum so you can read what he wrote.

edit - actually, there is something about those pics that is making me think it isn't zoysia. Look at torpedo grass and see if that looks like what you are dealing with.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Spammage said:


> @Kustrud that looks like a zoysia japonica to me. Unfortunately, it won't be easy to get rid of in bermuda. Greendoc has mentioned Sencor and Tenacity as a combo to kill it, but it will ding the bermuda. Do a search on the forum so you can read what he wrote.
> 
> edit - actually, there is something about those pics that is making me think it isn't zoysia. Look at torpedo grass and see if that looks like what you are dealing with.


Gah, you could be right about torpedo grass. It's not Zoysia, blades are way too thick and spread out. Previous HO said it was Zoysia (they were not yard people tho) but there's no way. This is killing me! How can I find out??

Do people from SiteOne ever come check a yard out? I'm stumped.

I mean if I have to, I'll cut out the spots and replace the sod - wold that be my best bet?

How do I keep it out of there after that? Just pull it when I see it? Will using the same mower on both lawns spread it?


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

**I just text the previous HO and she said she seeded it with Scotts brand Zoysia seed from Home Depot. So maybe it is Spammage....??


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

I'm going to go with torpedo grass. I've never seen it but a google search brought this up which looks a lot like the pictures with the bare spots.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

TN Hawkeye said:


> I'm going to go with torpedo grass. I've never seen it but a google search brought this up which looks a lot like the pictures with the bare spots.


I agree, it does look like that. Is torpedo grass a weed?


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## Gregau33 (Apr 15, 2018)

Yes, torpedo grass is a weed and is very very hard to get rid of. Even with roundup, multiple applications are needed. Quinclorac is listed to kill it, but it takes so many applications, it's not even worth it. You can try "painting" it with some glysophate, but it isn't an easy weed to deal with especially if you have a lot of it. We have tons of it in Florida


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

I switched to a new mower today where I can cut lower and mulch better. If I keep at it and get the yard perfect you think it could eventually choke it al out?


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Kustrud said:


> I switched to a new mower today where I can cut lower and mulch better. If I keep at it and get the yard perfect you think it could eventually choke it al out?


Not from what the universities are saying. I don't have any experience with this one (thankfully), but it appears painting with glyphosate is your best option. As stated, multiple apps of quinclorac are supposed to be effective. If you have any MSMA, I would consider trying that too.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Spammage said:


> Kustrud said:
> 
> 
> > I switched to a new mower today where I can cut lower and mulch better. If I keep at it and get the yard perfect you think it could eventually choke it al out?
> ...


 Thanks, I guess I will bust out the paint brush


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

So I grabbed a small brush and straight glyphosate concentrate and pointed all of the areas with this stuff. I'm sure I'll have some dead Bermuda too but I want this gone.

Will pre-emergent keep this stuff out next season if it is torpedo grass?

Also, will using the same mower on two diff lawn types transfer one type to the other?


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2018)

As I'm going through the same thing of removing a zoysia japonica. The pic you had on last page that is. It's a pain to get rid of. I've been hand pulling spots that I can catch in my fescue all summer long. If I find a area larger than my hand I'll go through and dig it up and trace the runners.

Most likely seeded variety is compadre/companion or zenith. My vote goes to you having zenith zoysia.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Here's a better pic, this is where they pumped the septic tank and it's starting to fill back in and you can see the runners.

Does this help anyone identify this grass? Again, previous HO said she bought the seed and that it was Zoysia seed, Scotts brand. I just thought the leafs were too broad....

If it's Zoysia, what kind?!


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2018)

@Kustrud 
I think there are only two zoysia grown from seed or at least that are popular enough to sell in stores.
As I stated before it is most likely Zenith or Compadre. Hope that helps, doesn't sound like you want a zoysia. Narrowing down cultivars can be hard but being you know it's seeded narrows it down to just a couple.


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## FlaDave (Jul 10, 2018)

Kustrud said:


> Here's a better pic, this is where they pumped the septic tank and it's starting to fill back in and you can see the runners.
> 
> Does this help anyone identify this grass? Again, previous HO said she bought the seed and that it was Zoysia seed, Scotts brand. I just thought the leafs were too broad....
> 
> If it's Zoysia, what kind?!


I'm not 100% certain, but that looks like centipede to me. Resembles st aug but blades are alternating and more pointed than it. I don't think this is the same grass/weeds from your previous picures. Looks like you've got quite a busy lawn there.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

FlaDave said:


> Kustrud said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a better pic, this is where they pumped the septic tank and it's starting to fill back in and you can see the runners.
> ...


I agree. The tips of the runners are the giveaway here. I'm impressed with the color of it. I don't think I've ever seen centipede that dark.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2018)

FlaDave said:


> Kustrud said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a better pic, this is where they pumped the septic tank and it's starting to fill back in and you can see the runners.
> ...


That is very true. The recent pics and the pics on first page are different grasses. You have good eyes! I have centipede and missed that lol


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## FlaDave (Jul 10, 2018)

I was thinking it was too dark for centipede, but it's growing so well. Could be that the soil ph is low and lots of iron. Looks really nice actually.

*edit* I realized we were trying to id what you have going on without answering your specific questions. Using the same mower shouldn't be much of an issue if you've got your pre-emergent down so seeds won't germinate. Most warm season grasses spread by stolons and rhisomes. This would be the issue in your case. You have a mix of many different grasses and tough weeds. With 2 different lawn types you would need to adapt your cultural practices for each to keep them separated and happy. If you want to keep bermuda happy and thriving read the bermuda bible. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1651Tons of great info in there to answer all your questions on bermuda. If your other grass is centipede, I'm not much help as I've never had it. There are some people on here who have amazing centipede lawns that can offer more insight on it. I do know that centipede is considered to be very sensitive to many herbicides and likes a slightly acidic ph soil. Hopefully this helps you somewhat.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the help on this.

Quick recap and reason I'm so stumped:
I'm VERY familiar with Bermuda, I have Bermuda down pat. I use Prodiamine as a PreE and Celsius as a Post E. I water 1" every Friday and fertilize as I should with Lesco. We just moved here 4 weeks ago and I'm bringing the yard up to speed, I'm used to having the best yard on the street! The front (Bermuda) now looks about 90% perfect already after four weeks. But the few small patches of weeds or grass mixing is what I'm fighting. The reason I'm stumped is because it's nkt simple crabgrass. Here's the front Bermuda yard to prove I know what I'm doing haha! This is thanks to a bunch of y'all here who gave me my knowledge on Bermuda at my old house. 


I also have only taken care of Bermuda, so don't really know the routine for other grasses.

My main two points I'm trying to solve in this post are identifying the type of grass in the backyard and removing whatever the patches are in the front Bermuda. I painted all the patches with straight glyphosate so it's going to kill it and all the Bermuda in/around it so once that happens I may cut it out and cut sod or put plugs in. Or may just let the Bermuda grow into the dead spots. I'll have to see what all the brushing glyphosate does to it.

But yes, those are my two pain objectives here so I really appreciate the help because I'm completely stumped.

I think the back may be Centipede, I know she said she seeded Zoysia but I just don't see it.

Keep the ideas coming and I'll update with pics again soon.

Thanks again!


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Alright, well the painting glyphosate on the spots on my beautiful yard is starting to kick in! I'll go back and hit what I missed and eventaully see how much damage I did to the Bermuda and what do to next - either fill it in or just let it grow back in. It's not too many spots and not easily seen from the street at least but still sucks. Better than it spreading though.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Also, I found out what my mystery backyard is. We had all agreed upon Centipede. But after speaking with the previous HO again, she's positive she used Zoysia seed. Also, someone here mentioned it looked like Japonica Zoysia. So I'm going to agree, it's Japonica Zoysia. No idea how to car for it. Do I bag it? Mulch it? HOC?? Etc.?


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Kustrud said:


> Also, I found out what my mystery backyard is. We had all agreed upon Centipede. But after speaking with the previous HO again, she's positive she used Zoysia seed. Also, someone here mentioned it looked like Japonica Zoysia. So I'm going to agree, it's Japonica Zoysia. No idea how to car for it. Do I bag it? Mulch it? HOC?? Etc.?


I have 4 different cultivars of zoysia japonica and I can tell you that the last two pictures you posted are not zoysia. Google both centipede and zoysia stolons and you can see what I mean.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Spammage said:


> Kustrud said:
> 
> 
> > Also, I found out what my mystery backyard is. We had all agreed upon Centipede. But after speaking with the previous HO again, she's positive she used Zoysia seed. Also, someone here mentioned it looked like Japonica Zoysia. So I'm going to agree, it's Japonica Zoysia. No idea how to car for it. Do I bag it? Mulch it? HOC?? Etc.?
> ...


Ahhhhh haha! Back to the drawing board...

You saying Centipede then?


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## FlaDave (Jul 10, 2018)

Kustrud said:


> Here's a better pic, this is where they pumped the septic tank and it's starting to fill back in and you can see the runners.
> 
> Does this help anyone identify this grass? Again, previous HO said she bought the seed and that it was Zoysia seed, Scotts brand. I just thought the leafs were too broad....
> 
> If it's Zoysia, what kind?!


This grass is centipede.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Kustrud said:


> Spammage said:
> 
> 
> > Kustrud said:
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Alright Centipede it is!

Any tips on HOC, fert, water, bagging, mulching, scalp in spring, etc.?


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## Gregau33 (Apr 15, 2018)

Don't ever scalp centipede... Unless you want to kill it 
I had a centipede yard in one of my previous homes and kept it at around 2 inches. Sometimes I would cut just a tad below that. It's not the best of the warm season grasses, but I enjoyed it.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@Kustrud @Gregau33 
Actually, I think @Nixnix42 is keeping his centipede at <1".


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Spammage said:


> @Kustrud @Gregau33
> Actually, I think @Nixnix42 is keeping his centipede at <1".


Cool, I've been cutting same height as Bermuda in the front at 1.5" and it actually looks really good so I'll just leave it there I guess.


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Here's the GLyphosate doing it's thing! Hopefully this kills it all off!


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2018)

Kustrud said:


> So after looking more and pulling these up, I think I have some St Aug in my Bermuda! What ya think? Look like it?
> 
> How can I kill it?!
> 
> It's fine in the back but my front looks good and I do not want this mixing in!


Does that grass have any rhizomes? It looks very much like a zoysia


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## Kustrud (Jun 23, 2017)

Here's an update for everyone - after some sun the Glyphosate is really doing it's job!

Getting rid of these weeds! Rest of the yard starting to look even better!

Back Centipede or possible Zoysia (we all determined) yard looking beautiful as well!

Question - should these spots fill back in with Bermuda on their own if I keep doing my part or will I need to transplant some grass?


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