# First KBG Mow + Fert



## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

KBG SS1100 mix, seed down day 8/19/18. Grass is 23 days old. This may be earlier than most would suggest mowing KBG but the forecast is rain for the next week. I took advantage of today's relative dry and went for it.

Mowed my new seeding at 1.5" and my overseed at 2".

Grass is doing pretty well. I used starter fertilizer at seed down (Kinder 19-26-6).

I have three fertilizers in the garage that I could potentially use:
Kinder 19-26-6
Milo 6-4-0
Ringer Lawn Restore 10-0-6

Which of these would be best and how much should I apply per 1000sqft? These products are all slow release so there is some room for error, correct?

Would it be better if I bought something else?

Also would the recommendation vary for the new seeding area versus the overseed?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I prefer AS or Urea @0.2lbof N/M weekly. I like fast acting so you could see the response instead of slow. I normally start 3-4 weeks after germination.

Perdue recommends 0.75 - 1.0lb of N/M between 4-6 weeks from germination. https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/AY/AY-3-W.pdf


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Thanks @g-man, why do you go so low? Is that recommendation only for weeks 3 & 4, then you go with the Perdue recommendation of 0.75-1.0 around the 4-6 week mark?

Would you apply the same for the overseed area or wait? Note that the overseed baby grass was likely uncut due to the 2" mow height, not sure if cutting is necessary for the N to have the biggest impact.

I didn't want to hurt the mature grass more than I had to. It was probably 8" and I cut it down to 2".


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

0.2lb/M weekly = 0.8lb/M monthly. Multiple studies point that constant small feeding is better than a larger one.

Yes to the overseed too.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Awesome, that makes sense.

I'm having trouble finding AS or urea locally - I even called Site One.

Any products that Home Depot or lowes carry that I can substitute?

Is it bad to feed the lawn K right now?

How about Scotts Lawn Food (32-0-4)?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Scotts-12-6-lb-5-000-sq-ft-Turf-Builder-Lawn-Food-22305/203120096

I'm not sure what my pH is but I would guess around 7 (soil probe). I hesitate to add anything that will substantially change my pH before I have a real soil test done.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Any local farm / feed stores? Local store in my area has urea on-hand.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Just to be clear, what @g-man does and what Purdue recommend are two different approaches.

G-man starts his weekly apps at either week 3 or week 4.

Purdue recommends to start somewhere between weeks 4-6.

Essentially you are applying the same amount of N. Difference being G-man applies his in smaller doses more frequently. Here is the math:

G-man 
0.20lb N each week from week 3 to week 10 = 1.6lbsN over 8 weeks

Purdue (as per the link above)
1lb N in week 6 + 1lb N in week 10 = 2lb N

If you bumped the weekly feeding to 0.25lb N, you would get the same 2lb N over 8 weeks.

You really want the fast release right now.


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Mozart said:


> Awesome, that makes sense.
> 
> I'm having trouble finding AS or urea locally - I even called Site One.
> 
> ...


@Mozart Not sure how far north you are, but I posed this question to the New Jersey forum this morning. @chrismar pointed me to belle mead co-op in Hillsborough. Also @ericgautier has mentioned Ferris Farms in New Brunswick. They are a bit of a hike for me, but I'm thinking of making a trip to one this weekend.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Thanks @Harts for explaining. I misread g-man's post as 0.75-1.0 pounds per week from Purdue (didn't realize it was a monthly rate).

@@gm560 I am in the NE corner of NJ, practically on the NY border, so Hillsborough and New Brunswick are quite a long drive for me. We might be in Edison the weekend after next, but I'd rather not wait. I'll see if I can find a farm/feed store locally in the meantime.

So Scotts Lawn Food is not a good alternative? Too harsh?


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

If you don't find pure urea close, you can likely find a generic fertilizer that is mostly or even all urea. Last time I was at Walmart I picked this up on sale. It was almost completely urea. I don't remember the price, but it was like under $10 on sale in the garden section. Probably not as cheap per pound as getting it from a supplier on the map, but I was already at Walmart, and I was even pushing a cart that the bag fit nicely under...

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Expert-Gardener-15-000-Square-Feet-Lawn-Fertilizer-29-0-4/55502935?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227073852355&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=185354696559&wl4=pla-290957823295&wl5=9003773&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=55502935&wl13=&veh=sem


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

Mozart said:


> So Scotts Lawn Food is not a good alternative? Too harsh?


I think the problem would be that it doesn't release as quickly as urea, nor is it as cheap.

Here's a good primer on types of Nitrogen that @osuturfman pointed me to in a different thread in the past.

http://ufdcimages.uflib.ufl.edu/IR/00/00/31/23/00001/SS31800.pdf


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Mozart said:


> Thanks @Harts for explaining. I misread g-man's post as 0.75-1.0 pounds per week from Purdue (didn't realize it was a monthly rate).
> 
> @@gm560 I am in the NE corner of NJ, practically on the NY border, so Hillsborough and New Brunswick are quite a long drive for me. We might be in Edison the weekend after next, but I'd rather not wait. I'll see if I can find a farm/feed store locally in the meantime.
> 
> So Scotts Lawn Food is not a good alternative? Too harsh?


If it is the area I am thinking of, it is pretty rural, there must be some farm or local ag stores up there. I just called Bartells in Clark NJ. The guy "thinks" they have it. Gonna call me back. It's 2 seconds off the GSP and not far from Edison if you end up waiting.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

gm560 said:


> Mozart said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks @Harts for explaining. I misread g-man's post as 0.75-1.0 pounds per week from Purdue (didn't realize it was a monthly rate).
> ...


Thanks! That's awesome. If you google Closter you will see how far NE I am 

I found a landscaping supply company (specializing in turf) that offers a custom blend of 20-0-4 which is 50% urea and 50% nutralene. Is that any good?

Also this guy said straight urea would push top growth, not bottom. Is that true? And if so, is the point of the N to encourage tillering and rhizomatous growth/spreading?

One more question- when I used the kinder starter fertilizer I did not apply Milo. Any benefit to Milo at this point? If so bag rate or something else?


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## NoslracNevok (Jun 12, 2018)

@Mozart I've found 46-0-0 (Urea) in my local small Ace Hardware, but not the larger hardware chains. May be worth calling them.

That guy saying it wouldn't push bottom (root) growth is misinformed. There's a plethora of studies showing otherwise. @g-man is the source master, he may chime in on this one.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Thanks @NoslracNevok, I believe g-man over store-man  I thought perhaps both ideas were correct in different contexts. I will re-read the fall N blitz thread and continue my search for urea...


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

This is the best I could find at Home Depot. Is this a viable backup if I can't find straight urea or is the K too high?


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## JohnP (Oct 24, 2017)

I'm surprised the Site One in Fair Lawn wouldn't have Urea. If that's the closest you can get, I guess go for it, you'd have to about double the pounds of that one to get to the Urea amount, so if you need to put down 0.25N per thou you'd have to do roughly 1# of that fert per thousand.


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

The calculation for 1 lb N / M

(1 lb N / 1M) * (1lb Fert / .29 lb N) = 3.44 lb Fert / M

Same calculation for 1 lb urea /N

(1 lb N / 1M) * (1lb Fert / .21 lb N) = 4.76 lb Fert / M

I'm not saying 1 lb anything / M is the "correct amount", just demonstrating the equation to convert units.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

samjonester said:


> Same calculation for 1 lb urea /N
> 
> (1 lb N / 1M) * (1lb Fert / .21 lb N) = 4.76 lb Fert / M


Just a minor correction to the above. The above uses 21% N, which would not be urea (46-0-0), but would be ammonium sulfate (21-0-0).

The below equation would be for a urea (46-0-0) fertilizer.

(1 lb N / 1M) * (1lb Fert / .46 lb N) = 2.17 lb Fert / M


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

ken-n-nancy said:


> samjonester said:
> 
> 
> > Same calculation for 1 lb urea /N
> ...


Right, if you have a bag of 46-0-0 with 46% urea, that's correct  I was running the numbers from Mozart's bag in the image above


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Hey guys I found a product that is 29% urea. Johnathan Green - Green Up Lawn Food.

@g-man I re-read the fall N blitz thread but still have a few questions:

Is there any downside to using a product with K or Iron for new seedlings?

100% of the Nitrogen in this product is Urea, but 11.6% is a polymer coated slow release form. Will the slow release burn the grass later on if I keep feeding?

Is this a good product if I can't find pure urea, in your opinion?





Still searching for the pure stuff...


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Sorry, I have not research this topic. There is a way to use slow release, but the timing is different. Osuturfman posted a video from Doug soldat that briefly discusses it, but I don't know.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Hi @osuturfman, do you have any information regarding the use of slow/fast release urea mixes for a nitrogen blitz on new seeding projects?

Would you know if potassium or iron have any adverse impact on the new seedlings?

Basically if I can't find a 100% fast release urea product I would like to have a plan B.

The highest N product I've found so far is the Johnathan Green Lawn Food (29-0-3) which has 11.6% polymer covered slow release urea (and 3% K, 4% Iron). Can I work with this as a backup? If so how would you advise applying it considering the slow release angle? Thanks! :thumbup:


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

If you can't find AMS or urea, go with that product. It'll take weeks for the slow release to kick in so that might be wasted eventually but you'll get the quick release part now. You can start with that now and over the next couple weeks, try to source some urea or AMS and then switch to that. You can use the rest of this product next year.


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## mmicha (Apr 20, 2018)

I just checked Amazon and grabbed two bags of this stuff: 46-0-0

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076B3961Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

mmicha said:


> I just checked Amazon and grabbed two bags of this stuff: 46-0-0
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076B3961Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


What you paid for 10lbs. for you could get 50lbs. at a feed store for the same price.


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## N LA Hacker (Aug 17, 2018)

True story.


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## osuturfman (Aug 12, 2017)

mmicha said:


> I just checked Amazon and grabbed two bags of this stuff: 46-0-0
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076B3961Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Go check out these guys who are not far from you:

Advanced Turf Solutions
24317 W 143rd Street, Unit 103
Plainfield, IL 60544
Phone: (815) 556-1370

They should have 50 lb bags of urea in the $15-18 range plus a whole host of high-quality products for your lawn.


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## JohnP (Oct 24, 2017)

@Mozart care to share a zip code? I'd love to try and help you find Urea.


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## osuturfman (Aug 12, 2017)

Mozart said:


> Hi osuturfman, do you have any information regarding the use of slow/fast release urea mixes for a nitrogen blitz on new seeding projects?
> 
> Would you know if potassium or iron have any adverse impact on the new seedlings?
> 
> ...


Quick release is preferred because you're trying to supply the grass the maximum amount of N per application. That said, the 40% slow release product you posted isn't a terrible option over the next 4 weeks. What you will give up in terms of short-term, plant available N, you'll gain in having a slow-release N bank in the soil for early next spring. After about the 10th of October, I would have your quick release products ready and the sooner the better on those.

Neither the K nor the Fe will have a negative effect on the seedlings, provided you are adequately watering in applications or timing them ahead of rain.

Some places that will carry urea and other high-quality turf care products, which also shouldn't be too far out of the way for you:

https://www.nutrienagsolutions.com/find-location

http://www.griturf.com/contact-us/


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