# Following LCN's COOL SEASON lawn plan........



## kaptain_zero (Jun 2, 2018)

As a Canadian, Milo and Ringer are not available to us.

I have settled on a locally produced Organic Fert product called Turkey Trot 6-4-6, which should make a good substitue for Milo.

But LCN also recommends a starter fertilzer in the Spring and Fall plus a full application of Milo, which makes sense, but..... here I go *thinking* again. They wouldn't let me do that at work!

14lbs of TT 6-4-6 should give me 0.94lb of Nitrogen and 0,48lb of Phosphorus per 1000 square feet. To my way of thinking, this should be adequate, but the LCN is suggesting synthetic starter fert in the early spring or late fall. Should I be adding this when I'm using Turkey Trot for the "Synthetic shock & awe" addition, or is slow and steady just as good?


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## scz71864 (Mar 21, 2018)

I always do synthetic twice a year. Just using the organic IMO isn't going to give you enough nitrogen. I use synthetic once in the spring and I once when I over seed. I'll use Milo when I over seed with the synthetic.


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

Have you had a soil test? Does you need the phos?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

The one thing I really disagree with LCN is the lack of a soil test. I feel that should be mandatory. How do you know if you even need P or K or anything else including PH corrected if you don't have a test done? With the correct ph, more nutrients are available and there is less leaching and wasted inputs.

As for using a milo like product, from what I have gathered, a mix of syn and org is the best for general use fertilizer. You get the best of both worlds. I try to go half half. The syn gives the grass a boost now and the org takes time to break down and you get your fert later. I feel it reduces the spikes in fert to the grass. Granted, if you used syn on a weekly basis, that becomes moot... Keep in mind, org requires microbes to break them down and that doesn't occur in cold weather.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

^ +1 I also tend to avoid nitrogen in the early spring. It 1) feeds the weeds and 2) sacrifices root development for top grow. With proper fall nitrogen, the need for spring nitrogen are reduced.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

+2 If you follow the Fall N Blitz, the synthetic in the Spring won't be necessary.

One thing I will say about LCN and the lack of a soil test is keep in mind he is trying to help everyone including the common home owner who doesn't care nearly as much as everyone on this forum. Those people just want less weeds and a thicker lawn. Following his Cool Season or Warm Season programs will get you both of those things. Following his practices along with consistent irrigation are the most basic of lawn care practices and you don't need a soil test.

Having said that, a soil test is absolutely mandatory if you want to go to the next level - which everyone on here does. I am getting mine done for the first time as we speak and will be posting my results for your input.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

My other grip is with his thrower down when it comes to fert. I do find it funny but my state has strict limits on annual N and P. We also have blackout dates. More states are moving this direction and the thrower down mentality isn't helping. We are limited to 0.5lb/M of P per year only if a soil test indicates P is low. That is barely anything but thanks to farmers and homeowners overusing, the bay was polluted. There are hefty fines if you get busted. Now the P has been eliminated from fert except for starter fert and org fert. Now he is telling people to use excessive rates of milo with a high P to N rate. My state may ban milo eventually... He should be promoting soil first with optimal growing medium and not hammering fert constantly. There are pros here maintaining acres of turf with 1.5lb/M of N annually. If they can do that and have great looking turf, I don't see the need to use fert at the rates many are recommending let alone the thrower down mentality. What happened to being stewards of the environment? Yes, using tons of org fert does make it easier to grow grass but couldn't he recommend a lower P fert? And what about K? Grass uses more K per N than P. Milo has no K. I don't get it...


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Sorry OP. Got sidetracked... The 6-4-6 you found sounds like a great substitute for Milo. It also has K which is great. Maybe add some urea or ammonium sulfate for more N early or late in the year to help balance the overall N-P-K ratio. A 100%-20%-50% is a good use ratio for turf. If you add only N with synthetic, that'll bump up the first number to get you a great fertilizer mix!


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## GoPre (Oct 28, 2017)

The LCN is the reason I'm a lawn nut. If you watch his most recent content he goes far more in depth with soil tests and application rates. I think the throw'r down line is more for organics and people afraid to screw up. (I understand restrictions) Like someone else mentioned he really targeted the novice people with his earlier content. I mean I know of some nuts who know their stuff down at triple bag rate.

I get your points, though. You're right, to be honest. Just wanted to chime in that the LCN is an excellent place to start. He has a knack for educating.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

GoPre said:


> He has a knack for educating.


And for inspiring.


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## kaptain_zero (Jun 2, 2018)

Allyn Hane aka LCN on Youtube inspired me to start looking at and taking care of my lawn earlier this year.

The lawn is a heritage lawn, originally sown in the 1960s when the house was built and I know for a fact that it has not seen ANY watering or fertilizing in the past 25 years, so *anything* will likely help it grow. All mowing was bagged and removed for those years, thus my assumption a lot of macros will have been lost.

Allyn IS pro soil test, a view of some of his later videos will show that not only does he explain the results and why you should test your soil, but also sells one of those mail in kits on his website. Unfortunately, I can't use them as they cannot accept Canadian soil at the moment (requires permits from what I understand) and I'm having a problem finding a decent local place that presents the information I need in laymans terms. I plan to make a trip to a golf course supplier that sells to the public on the other side of the city and hopefully they will have some ideas of where I should go.

I know I should overseed this fall, but I have a planned trip in the beginning of Sept. for at least 1 week, so seeding before I leave would not be a good idea if it remains dry. Seeding in the middle of Sept. is also likely not a good idea as frost can hit as early as mid September and we usually have the first snowfall on Halloween, but sometimes a few weeks before, and yet the last half of August can see temps in the 90s (F) with no rain.

Speaking of herbicide and Fetilizer bans, pretty much nothing other than corn gluten (pre-emerg) and chelated iron (post-emerg) are permitted for herbicides and Phosphorus is not supposed to be used except for newly seeded or sodded lawns (max 2 seasons), but we can fertilize through the entire season.

My starting plan was to start pounding the organic fert this year, to get the soil more active and try to get something other than broadleaf weeds to grow. As I did have some small sections of sod placed last year, I can still use a starter fert with Phosphorus, but I was just wondering if there is enough Phosphorus in the Organic Turkey Trot, and would it release quickly enough, that I could just go with that and get similar results?

Once I get a soil test done, I will know much more and can start dialing in my regimen, but until then, I need to start somewhere.


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## GoPre (Oct 28, 2017)

social port said:


> GoPre said:
> 
> 
> > He has a knack for educating.
> ...


Absolutely. "Enjoy the mow"


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@GoPre I say that to myself almost every time I mow. I even sometimes strut a little.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

I do like that he has started promoting the soil savvy tests. They are easy for a homeowner to use. The part I don't like is that their test is a picture in time. It shows what is plant available now. If you change your ph, you need to do another test since nutrient availability changes. For half the cost of 1 soil savvy test, you can get a test done which shows the whole nutrient bank in the soil. You just need 1 test to last 3 years as a general rule of thumb. You can test annually if you wish but the cost is much lower than multiple soil savvy tests. Perhaps this is the best compromise he felt he could do as a widely available service. Local soil testing is all different and then the recommendations may or may not be there. That is definitely a constraint but I feel the test has a severe drawback.

In a way, I feel this is like buying fert from the local home improvement store. It is such a rip off. You pay $40 for 36lbs of 29-0-5. You can just buy urea for $13 for 50lbs of 46-0-0. Its a fraction of the cost. A lot less money for a lot more nitrogen. I guess, the more you learn, the better of an informed decision you can make to suit your needs and budget.

Not to say I don't watch the LCN. I'm definitely a fan! Entertaining and fun times in the lawn. I like the majority of the stuff he does. He inspired me to start my own channel!


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## NoslracNevok (Jun 12, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> ....In a way, I feel this is like buying fert from the local home improvement store. It is such a rip off. You pay $40 for 36lbs of 29-0-5. You can just buy urea for $13 for 50lbs of 46-0-0. Its a fraction of the cost. A lot less money for a lot more nitrogen. I guess, the more you learn, the better of an informed decision you can make to suit your needs and budget......


The best price for Nitrogen/urea I've found in the St. Louis area is a 50 lb bag of 46-0-0 for $20. I'd be so happy to find a place selling this stuff for those type of low prices.


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## kaptain_zero (Jun 2, 2018)

Bioavailable right now vs bound up in the soil, tests.

You have an excellent point, but of the two, I think the Soil Savvy test would serve the home owner better. Having nutrients bound up in the soil means they are not available to the turf, so supplementing with macros that are NOT bound up, should improve the current situation whilst the test also tells you why those nutrients are bound up (such as low PH) and you can work on that. Changing things like PH in the soil will take some time, sometimes years, and in the mean time one needs to do what one needs to do to get the lawn moving.

A once every 3 year test will not tell me if I'm doing the right thing or even enough of the right thing, or for that matter if I've gone too far until it's much later. Somewhat more frequent testing might just be the way to go.

I do agree that the cost (though it does include the postage for mailing things in) is at the higher end of the scale, but such is the cost of convenience and that's what rules the masses. The masses want convenience more than anything. If it lets them turn their brain off completely, so they can go back to watching Wheel of Fortune and other highly educational programs, they will be all for it.

As for costs.... The masses will go to the home centers, because they have been trained to do so by the commercials shown on Television. When was the last time you saw an ad on TV directed at homeowners for a farmer or golf course supply shop? I've seen a few ads in the midwest, but they are not directed at home owners, but rather farmers.

I don't know if we will ever wake up the average person who just doesn't want to be bothered with anything. I can't believe there is a demand for self driving and self parking cars and yet, I don't think I'll be able to buy a car without those expensive, and yet useless, features anymore. All these ads showing inattentive people being saved by automated braking systems, only show what *might* happen in perfect circumstances. Those braking systems wouldn't work worth a hill of beans in the winter here, there are times when touching the brake becomes useless as the wheels just lock up with no effect on the speed of the car. Lane departure? How does that work when the lane marker lines are covered with snow 7 months of the year?!?! 

Sorry... I don't mean to be argumentative, I'm just a retro-grouch who is still breathing.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Did you just hijack your own thread? Haha

You should apologize for that. You are Canadian afterall!


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## kaptain_zero (Jun 2, 2018)

Harts said:


> Did you just hijack your own thread? Haha
> 
> You should apologize for that. You are Canadian afterall!


Uhhh....... I resemble that remark, I think..... sort of....... like...... :mrgreen:


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