# Mystery GFCI Outlet



## SGrabs33

TLF is my last hope. Besides hiring an electrician of course.

I have 3 outlets around the house that are not working. One under the house that runs my condensate pump, one side of house, and one on the front. Figure they all are linked to one GFCI that's tripped but I have no idea where that is. Searched all inside and outside the house.

Any ideas?


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## Ware

SGrabs33 said:


> TLF is my last hope. Besides hiring an electrician of course.
> 
> I have 3 outlets around the house that are not working. One under the house that runs my condensate pump, one side of house, and one on the front. Figure they all are linked to one GFCI that's tripped but I have no idea where that is. Searched all inside and outside the house.
> 
> Any ideas?


Maybe in the garage? Or near your A/C condensing unit outside?

It's not on a GFCI circuit breaker instead is it?


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## driver_7

I second @Ware, I did something similar with my exterior outlets. I couldn't find the GFCI anywhere in the house, it ended up being on the breaker itself. Easy reset and back in business.


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## SGrabs33

Ware said:


> SGrabs33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> TLF is my last hope. Besides hiring an electrician of course.
> 
> I have 3 outlets around the house that are not working. One under the house that runs my condensate pump, one side of house, and one on the front. Figure they all are linked to one GFCI that's tripped but I have no idea where that is. Searched all inside and outside the house.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe in the garage? Or near your A/C condensing unit outside?
> 
> It's not on a GFCI circuit breaker instead is it?
Click to expand...

I've searched high and low. 4 GFCI in the garage but non are tripped and all work. Everything in the breaker box is on. It must be hidden somewhere. Searched all downstairs and outside. Got no idea.


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## FATC1TY

Any in the kitchen or bathrooms? Under sinks for garbage disposal ?

I'd assume it's on a breaker and not labeled correctly if so.


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## Rig2

Do you happen to have a light in the attic? My light is on the same circuit as my out side lights.


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## SGrabs33

Thanks all.

Update. Neighbor let me borrow an outlet/GFCI tester. I used it on the outlets that aren't working and the code came back that they are "correct wiring". 


Using the tester I also was able to trip each box and figured out where the GFCI was. Right next to the box in the garage. So when I was originally looking nothing was actually tripped. Just those 3 outlets weren't working. So the GFCI and two outlets in that line are working but 3 are not.

I've read that the wiring in one of Bad outlets could have wiggles lose and had a bad connection. House isn't old, only 8 years. So I've gotten to two of the outlets. First one seems fine. 2nd one on side of the house looks like it has some water infiltration. Hoping that's the issue. Thinking of going to pick up a new outlet and switching it out to see if that fixes my problem. Cross your fingers :thumbup:


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## Thejarrod

I just became aware of this phenomena . When we bought our house, the old owner warned me that there is a gfci outlet mounted in the ceiling of the basement that also controls a couple outlets in the kitchen. Nice guy.


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## driver_7

I've considered becoming an electrician's apprentice while my job is in flux simply due to the ridiculous owner (and electrician-installed) electrical situations I've found in my two most recent houses. What are they thinking putting a GFCI in the basement ceiling on the same circuit as kitchen receptacles??


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## NJ-lawn

SGrabs33 said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> Update. Neighbor let me borrow an outlet/GFCI tester. I used it on the outlets that aren't working and the code came back that they are "correct wiring".
> 
> 
> Using the tester I also was able to trip each box and figured out where the GFCI was. Right next to the box in the garage. So when I was originally looking nothing was actually tripped. Just those 3 outlets weren't working. So the GFCI and two outlets in that line are working but 3 are not.
> 
> I've read that the wiring in one of Bad outlets could have wiggles lose and had a bad connection. House isn't old, only 8 years. So I've gotten to two of the outlets. First one seems fine. 2nd one on side of the house looks like it has some water infiltration. Hoping that's the issue. Thinking of going to pick up a new outlet and switching it out to see if that fixes my problem. Cross your fingers :thumbup:


The GFCI should have tripped if an outlet on the same circuit has water infiltration. Be careful with a loose connection, buy a multi meter and test the wires before touching live wires.

If you think those two outlets are on the same circuit as GFCI, hit the test button on the GFCI and that should kill the outlets down stream. Always test wires first........continuity testers are your friend too, trace out circuits with the power off. You never know how someone wired your house. Don't take anything for granted

Also when you have the time......check your panel schedule and make sure it's correct. Turn one breaker off at a time and walk around and test outlets and check lights. Sometimes lights and power are on same circuit.


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## SGrabs33

@NJ-lawn thanks for all the info.

I ended up getting an electrician out because I was @ my end.

The issue ended up being chaffed wires under the house. The staples holding the wires in place had stripped the wires and caused the outlets to fail.


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## NJ-lawn

SGrabs33 said:


> @NJ-lawn thanks for all the info.
> 
> I ended up getting an electrician out because I was @ my end.
> 
> The issue ended up being chaffed wires under the house. The staples holding the wires in place had stripped the wires and caused the outlets to fail.


Yeah that ideally should trip the breaker. For that matter also the GFCI should have tripped


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## Dkrem

My previous house was built in 1981, when GFCI were just becoming mandated. The house had ONE GFCI outlet in total. It was in the upstairs master bathroom. The outgoing "protected" line from it went over to the single outlet in the main second floor bathroom, then down to the outlet in the first floor half bath. then out into the garage where it fed all four outlets there. So DUMB, for numerous reasons.

It seems GFCI was not yet required in the kitchen at that time.


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## MasterMech

Dkrem said:


> My previous house was built in 1981, when GFCI were just becoming mandated. The house had ONE GFCI outlet in total. It was in the upstairs master bathroom. The outgoing "protected" line from it went over to the single outlet in the main second floor bathroom, then down to the outlet in the first floor half bath. then out into the garage where it fed all four outlets there. So DUMB, for numerous reasons.
> 
> It seems GFCI was not yet required in the kitchen at that time.


What seems obtuse for the end user of a finished home, was likely the path of least resistance and fewest materials for the installing electrician. Code is meant for safety only, and any convenience benefit is incidental.

If I were Grand Poobah of my own electrical install, (maybe one day):

GFCI devices would only be allowed to protect receptacles within line of sight to the device, with exception of GFCI breakers. 
Bathrooms would have dedicated circuits for their receptacles. 
Overhead lighting would never be on the same circuit as receptacles. 
Failure to remove drywall debris or excessive paint overspray into the boxes will be punishable with 1 full day, dawn to dusk, in the stocks.


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## Delmarva Keith

I had a similar situation years back. Most of an entire room suddenly had no power but no breakers tripped. Spent a lot of time trying to find the issue with no luck. Finally bit the bullet and bought this: https://www.testequipmentdepot.com/triplett/cable-tracers/fox-hound-hotwire-live-circuit-tracing-kit-tone-generator-probe-3388.htm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhc7N6ezr7QIVgq6GCh0o0wZhEAAYAiAAEgJmi_D_BwE
Turned out the room was on the load side of a GFCI outlet basically hidden in a closet.

Here's a GFCI that was mounted outdoors for an outlet that never worked from the day we bought the house. I finally got fed up with it not working and opened 'er up.. Um, there's your problem lol. Some other clues indicate the former owner was into some outrageously high current draw Christmas lighting each year. The contacts in the GFCI must have corroded just enough and next thing you know, it spells "fire hazard."


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## NJ-lawn

Another good reason to test your GFCI occasionally to make sure they still are operational. Just hit the test/reset button. Make sure it trips


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## Harts

Bumping this thread as I'm having a similar issue. Just moved into this house in mid-December. The outlet in the master bath and kids bath aren't working. Kids bath is a GFCI outlet. Master bath is just a regular outlet - which makes me assume they the one GFCI controls both outlets. I've opened both outlets up and I don't have power running to either of the load wires.

I've searched the entire house, high and low for another GFCI that may be tripped. Can't find one. Basement bathroom has one but works fine. All outside outlets have them and they test fine.

It occurred to me this morning that there is one other outlet near the hot tub that I haven't checked. I'm going to do that tonight.

I've also turned off every breaker in the panel and turned them back on in the off chance one of them didn't trip properly.

I asked the previous owner if she had any issues and she told me they were working fine for her as she used the outlet in the master to dry her hair every morning.

I'm at the point of calling an electrician. Any thoughts?


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## Delmarva Keith

One more test you can try is to see if you still have continuity on the neutral back to the panel (and thus ground). Most GFCI outlets, when they trip, open both the hot and neutral. If you still have continuity on the neutral to ground, the issue likely isn't a tripped GFCI somewhere. If no continuity from neutral to ground, very likely a tripped GFCI somewhere.


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## NJ-lawn

The GFCI maybe bad in kids bath. They go bad. Replace it. Make sure you know which wires are LINE and LOAD.


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## NJ-lawn

If you want to know for sure that the kids bath n master bath on same circuit. Test continuity between load wires @gfci and master bath wires. Should ring out. Meaning same circuit. I'd put money on they are.


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## Harts

NJ-lawn said:


> The GFCI maybe bad in kids bath. They go bad. Replace it. Make sure you know which wires are LINE and LOAD.


I have replaced the GFI in the kids bath. Wired it the same as the old one. It is possible the old one was wired incorrectly, thus copying it renders the new outlet useless. I'll take another look and see if I can test continuity.

Thanks fellas.


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## NJ-lawn

Harts said:


> NJ-lawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> The GFCI maybe bad in kids bath. They go bad. Replace it. Make sure you know which wires are LINE and LOAD.
> 
> 
> 
> I have replaced the GFI in the kids bath. Wired it the same as the old one. It is possible the old one was wired incorrectly, thus copying it renders the new outlet useless. I'll take another look and see if I can test continuity.
> 
> Thanks fellas.
Click to expand...

If the GFCI was wired incorrectly, the GFCI would not reset. You would know right away, the test/ reset button would not depress. It would instantaneously trip.

Your more than likely have a pair ( black/hot and white/neutral ) for line side and another pair for load side. Make sure you don't mix up the hot and neutrals.


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## Harts

NJ-lawn said:


> Harts said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NJ-lawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> The GFCI maybe bad in kids bath. They go bad. Replace it. Make sure you know which wires are LINE and LOAD.
> 
> 
> 
> I have replaced the GFI in the kids bath. Wired it the same as the old one. It is possible the old one was wired incorrectly, thus copying it renders the new outlet useless. I'll take another look and see if I can test continuity.
> 
> Thanks fellas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the GFCI was wired incorrectly, the GFCI would not reset. You would know right away, the test/ reset button would not depress. It would instantaneously trip.
> 
> Your more than likely have a pair ( black/hot and white/neutral ) for line side and another pair for load side. Make sure you don't mix up the hot and neutrals.
Click to expand...

You are correct. The test button doesn't depress on the new outlet (or the old outlet). The thing I still struggle with is my voltage tester doesn't light up red and beep when I test either of the 2 black wires. This suggests to me there isn't any power going to the outlet at all.


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## NJ-lawn

You should have voltage at the line side of the GFCI. How many black wires are in the box? Any other colored wires ( red, blue....) other than white. More than likely the "hot" wire in that box comes from your electrical panel. I doubt they feed that GFCI from another location since the GFCI device is physically there. Typically a circuit (dedicated) is ran to a bathroom, than the load side feeds the other bath.

So it needs to be traced back to the panel. It's possible the breaker in the panel is bad. Did you lose power anywhere else?

Do you have a panel schedule in your electrical box, tells you each circuit breaker location? You need to find which breaker feeds that GFCI. Not sure how comfortable you are removing the cover but you may have to replace a breaker.

Oh one more thing.......make sure your tester works. Test a know hot circuit/ outlet


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## Harts

NJ-lawn said:


> You should have voltage at the line side of the GFCI. How many black wires are in the box? Any other colored wires ( red, blue....) other than white. More than likely the "hot" wire in that box comes from your electrical panel. I doubt they feed that GFCI from another location since the GFCI device is physically there. Typically a circuit (dedicated) is ran to a bathroom, than the load side feeds the other bath.
> 
> So it needs to be traced back to the panel. It's possible the breaker in the panel is bad. Did you lose power anywhere else?
> 
> Do you have a panel schedule in your electrical box, tells you each circuit breaker location? You need to find which breaker feeds that GFCI. Not sure how comfortable you are removing the cover but you may have to replace a breaker.
> 
> Oh one more thing.......make sure your tester works. Test a know hot circuit/ outlet


There are 2 black and 2 white. I know the tester work because I have replaced a few fixtures over the past few weeks and have used the test several times.

I've been in the house about a month now and haven't lost power. The panel is marked but not very well. I'm comfortable doing quite a bit but replacing a breaker isn't something I'd mess with. I have a call out to an electrician to look at it. I think you're on the right track with a bad breaker. Because it wouldn't make sense to me to have two GFCI's on the same line. It would be redundant.

I'll post an update when I have one.

I really appreciate the help.


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## NJ-lawn

No problem, I've been a union electrician for 30 years. I'm retiring next month. We don't get involved with too much residential work but the basics are all the same. I've always enjoyed trouble shooting.

There are a few things it could be, according to how old your home is, there probably been a lot of hands (professional and home owners) in the pot. There are a lot of hacks out there too.

Yes keep us updated. I'm really curious


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## Harts

NJ-lawn said:


> No problem, I've been a union electrician for 30 years. I'm retiring next month. We don't get involved with too much residential work but the basics are all the same. I've always enjoyed trouble shooting.
> 
> There are a few things it could be, according to how old your home is, there probably been a lot of hands (professional and home owners) in the pot. There are a lot of hacks out there too.
> 
> Yes keep us updated. I'm really curious


SOLUTION: I was thinking yesterday; prior to our move, I spent a week painting and doing a few things. One of those things was putting dimmers on each of the kids bedrooms. I initially had an issue as when I had both dimmers hooked up, the switch in my daughters room began to control my sons room and the kids bathroom lights. I quickly realized I had one of the black wires on my daughters dimmer on the incorrect terminal. When I moved it to the correct terminal, everything worked. This was about a month ago.

So yesterday I started thinking, "I wonder if one of those dimmers also goes to the GFCI in the kids bathroom (the switch in my son's room is directly behind the wall where the bathroom GFCI is)." Then it hit me that maybe one of those two dimmers were still wired incorrectly, even though the lights worked fine.

When I got home after work, I opened up my son's switch and BINGO! There was a black wire tucked in the back of the box that was capped off. I didn't notice it last month when I changed out the switch. I figured that wire must go to the GFCI outlet....and sure enough, it did.

@NJ-lawn you were correct as well....I had the load and lead wires mixed up on the GFCI.

Everything works now. But it really makes me wonder; the previous owner either never used the outlet in the master bath OR changed the switch in my sons room before they moved out and for whatever reason capped of that black wire.

But had I not changed the switches, it never would have occurred to me to look.

Thanks for all the help fellas.


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## NJ-lawn

That's great news.......glad you saved a few bucks and fixed it. FYI for the future....you can buy a non contact voltage tester (tic tracer) to test safely with out taking off wire nuts. Be careful though, you need to move/separate the colored wires (aka "hot" wire) apart somewhat to identify which is hot. Cost ~ $20.

Also always test your tester each time you use them on a known good source. Never take anything for granted and assume it's operational.

There you go.....a lot of hands in the so called "pot" can cause problems.


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