# What am I missing with PGR



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

In an effort to determine how much I need, I thought it best to ask some professionals as opposed to some educated guessing bassed on the label.

Looking on the PGR label, it says .75 oz/k

Details: 
- Front - 6k (4.5 oz)
- Back - 7k (5.25 oz)
- Type - KBG/Rye

OK, so that part is fairly easy. Now the part I do not quite get. Am I applying this year round or only in the heaviest part of growing season, mostly spring and then once the summer heat is gone or all year regardless of temperature. I saw some reports talking about temperature and it affect on PGR, but I rather be regimented at set intervals than trying to calculate based on daily temps.

Lets say May is the starting point, I want to say April, but I think it is still manageable then. If needed, I can alway start earlier, but lets say May. Half rate applications seems to be the popular method in these parts, so as long as I can, I will do half rate. If it becomes too much I can do full and just extend the timing.

Depending on the summer heat and if those months also get PGR, May through September is 5 months, call it 20 weeks. 20/3 and you have roughly 7 half-rate applications.

If the annual max PGR is 7 oz/k, how is any of this possible? With my application schedul I would be at roughly 14oz for the year, double the max. If I was to take out July and August, leaving me with 3 months and 12 weeks, 4 half rate applications puts me to 9oz, which is better, but still over. So, what am I missing with all this PGR fun? Are my numbers bad? Am I not understanding the label? Is my timing for need inaccurate?

I am hoping somebody can set em straight because something isn't quite adding up and making sense to me. My ultimate goal is to reduce my number of cuts, when I can get 2 in a week it is not bad, 3 is the sweet spot. Any more than that and it is way too long.


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## madox9 (Mar 5, 2018)

7 apps at .75oz = 5.25oz per 1000 sq feet


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

I think your numbers are bad. Assuming you use the full rate of .75 oz/k that would give you 9 1/3 apps before you reach the limit. Assuming you stick with a 3 week interval, that would give you 27 weeks of coverage before hitting the max yearly limit of 7 oz/k.

Also doing a half rate app will not necessarily decrease the amount of time it is suppressed, just the intensity. So more trinexapac-ethyl per 1000 will not get you longer regulation, just less growth during that time.


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## GoPre (Oct 28, 2017)

I am also interested in the replies here, I'm concerned with PGR/gallon ratio. I assume I'll take a test run with just water to figure out my sq. ft. coverage and go from there?

(If I have hijacked this post please accept my apologies.)


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

ok, you guys are right. I was mixing numbers, .75/k but then dividing my total app amount by 2. So 4.5oz/2 as opposed to the per k .75/2.

So if that is the case, for the year, how much do I need?

6 months = 24 weeks, every 3 weeks = 8 apps (.5oz/k rate) = 4 oz/k right? so 4oz to get roughly 6 months coverage, give of take.

13k total * 4 = 52oz product for the year.

I can always choose to cut back and only do the front and then I have 2 years worth at 52oz. I guess the only question then is about the summer heat, is PGR something I need to stay away from in the heat? Or is it cool to just maintain my schedule? Things usually slow in August naturally, but other than that, are there any specific factors to avoid, similar to no N when soil hits 80 degrees?


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

GoPre said:


> I am also interested in the replies here, I'm concerned with PGR/gallon ratio. I assume I'll take a test run with just water to figure out my sq. ft. coverage and go from there?
> 
> (If I have hijacked this post please accept my apologies.)


it is product/k, so the amount of carrier is based on how much you need for that coverage.

So if you can do 3k with 2 gallons, then it is 3k (PGR)/2 gallons.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

kolbasz said:


> ok, you guys are right. I was mixing numbers, .75/k but then dividing my total app amount by 2. So 4.5oz/2 as opposed to the per k .75/2.
> 
> So if that is the case, for the year, how much do I need?
> 
> ...


One of the things that I learned about PGR is that it is going to slow the development of the leaf tissue, while root development will continue, with the possibility of increased color response (darker color). This post in the PGR thread had a really great presentation that was PGR 101, and the examples of the treated plants vs untreated was pretty remarkable. Plants that had been treated with PGR and were stressed with heat and infrequent irrigation saw little change in development, while untreated plants suffered dramatically.

I firmly believe that with the decrease in the leaf tissue growth, since you achieve cellular compaction and more concentration of cell tissue per leaf, your roots will continue to go deeper in search of water.

Just keep your PGR application schedule as you plan for the year, irrigate normally, and maintain your normal fertilization schedule that you have for your grass type. If you skip apps on the PGR, the plant will come out of regulation, and will have a "rebound" of growth, which is explained in the video. That's the only thing I could think of that would be detrimental.


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> kolbasz said:
> 
> 
> > ok, you guys are right. I was mixing numbers, .75/k but then dividing my total app amount by 2. So 4.5oz/2 as opposed to the per k .75/2.
> ...


Thanks Colonel, this is perfect. Only point of clarification is at the end you mentioned rebound and detrimental. I assume detrimental in that it grows quickly and requires more mowing as opposed to detrimental bad for the grass to suddenly stopped treating it?


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

kolbasz said:


> Colonel K0rn said:
> 
> 
> > kolbasz said:
> ...


Detrimental was a poor word choice. Drawback would be a better choice, because you'll have to mow a lot more than you were when it comes out of regulation. Without getting too technical, the biosynthesis of Gibberellin is inhibited during the photosynthesis of the plant just prior to the cell elongation. In the video, the slide around the 16:00 mark will show this point of action where the growth is inhibited. While the plant is still continuing to make the gibberellin, and storing it up in the roots, and the crown, once the inhibition is removed, i.e. the PGR wears off, all that gibberellin that was stored up is not immediately available for photosynthesis, and a flourish of growth occurs. You'll have to try to slow down the process again, and "cage the grass gone wild" if you miss the app.


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

This is awesome. Only fear would be missing the 3 well window. If things do break loose, is it hard to get them back under control? Or is it just a matter of getting an app down?


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Just a matter of getting another app down. I found I had consistent control on my turf with 4 week applications, but I was in the later part of summer when I started, and temps were cooling down, so the growth might not have been as vigorous as it was in the late spring/early summer. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to gauge your grass response by the mowing frequency, i.e. mowing while under regulation and you won't have many clippings vs. mowing and getting more than you usually do, time to spray again. No hard and fast rule, just learn your grass, and you'll be fine.

I found good success when applying a double rate around the areas I trim, or don't want a lot of growth, like my pool and shed and patio.


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> I found good success when applying a double rate around the areas I trim, or don't want a lot of growth, like my pool and shed and patio.


I never thought of this, but I like it. I have some beds that I never like to edge, etc. Think I just found a new application. So I assume there is not real fear of over doing it as long as you don't exceed the 7oz annual rate.

I assume your rate was full. So my half rate is on point at 3 weeks. So what happens with a double dose?

I do think I found a solution for the fall when cutting back. PGR but cut more frequently. Beats having to double cut.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

I forget who made this spreadsheet, but it was a member from TLF. Keep track of your lawn care with it.

Looking back at my sheet, I applied at .5oz/K, since I was pretty sure I had Common Bermuda. Those areas that I wanted to treat for Edging/Banding can handle between 1-2 oz/K. I just went over those areas twice with the same mixture. I'm assuming since the leaf blade for your grass type is larger that the rate is higher per the label (0.75 oz/K). I don't see anything in the edging/banding column, so you could try it on a small area before you consider moving forward with that in your total spray pattern. I'm going to defer to the cool season grass owners for their expertise here before I get skewered.


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

Na, this is perfect. You have provided lots of good insight. I am looking forward to trying it out and seeing how it ups my lawn game.

I will be curious to see how much less I mow and how much greener the lawn will be compared to the neighbors.

I tried explaining it to the wife, she told me I have issues.


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## GoPre (Oct 28, 2017)

I'm excited to try PGR for the first time. Unfortunately I LOVE to mow. I'm simply doing this for the color, tiller benefits. Oh well.


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

GoPre said:


> I'm excited to try PGR for the first time. Unfortunately I LOVE to mow. I'm simply doing this for the color, tiller benefits. Oh well.


I love to mow too, just need to do it too often with too little time, so instead of a sloppy yard, this is my alternative.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

GoPre said:


> I'm excited to try PGR for the first time. Unfortunately I LOVE to mow. I'm simply doing this for the color, tiller benefits. Oh well.


I love to mow too, but the best cuts always seem to be the ones when the grass really doesn't need it. That's where PGR really shines. :thumbup:


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

Focus on the stripes


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> .


I just read that suppression in best at shorter lengths. I was always a 3.5" guy, how does this impact that mode of thinking?


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