# Lawn renovation



## Cincinnati guy (Mar 6, 2018)

First time poster here.

Back in July I killed my lawn, and had it all tilled up. I leveled and sprayed and sprayed weed killers to keep the weeds away. Around September I purchased 30 pounds ofTTTF from the hogan company. I slit seeded it and applied a thin layer of peat moss to help hold the moisture.

Now it's march when should my lawn start waking up as I still have some thin spots? I am starting to see some weeds growing. May it's time for a pre emergent? Anyone recommend my next course of action?

Will my lawn start to fill in better this spring? I've only mowed it 2 times in the fall. Will it slowly get better?

When should I throw some some milorganite?


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Fescue is classified as a bunch grass. It does not spread and will not fill in bare spaces between plants. Filling in will require more seed-overseeding. Seeding rates for fescue is about 5 lbs per thousand square feet. A quarter acre lawn would be almost 11,000 square feet, so spreading 30 lbs of seed over that much area would be rather thin. In any event you'll want to overseed every fall until the lawn thickens to your standards. You can apply a preM the spring after a fall seeding, but if you do (unless it is Siduron), you wont be able to overseed until the preM has worn off. You might want to consider using a starter fertilizer and save the Milorganite until June 1.


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## Cincinnati guy (Mar 6, 2018)

I'm not sure why I didn't include that it was a TTTF mix with KBG. I told the hogan company my measurements and he told me that's what I needed. They called it the hogan mix I believe. It had a lot of different seeds blended in.

What preemergent do you recommend?

I will go ahead and get another bag of starter fertilizer and throw down.


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

lots of good info on pre-m (and lots of other stuff) in this thread, C-guy.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1595


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

If you seeded very late last fall or you have other reason to believe that a significant amount of seed didn't germinate, you might want to use Siduron early and then one of the other preM later, Scotts sells a starter fertilizer with Siduron. Also familiarize yourself with application rates. Length of protection depends on how heavy you apply prodiamine (see product labels). Some preMs contain nitrogen, you don't want to apply a starter fertilizer N and N from the preM. Read the link above, and check out what is available to you at big box, garden centers, and local "seed and feed" stores. Once you've read that link, feel free to get back with any questions before you proceed.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Cincinnati guy said:


> I'm not sure why I didn't include that it was a TTTF mix with KBG.


Do you by any chance have a picture of the seed bag tag? If it did in fact contain KBG, then it'll fill in some. Google "philes fertilizer lecture". :bandit:


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## Cincinnati guy (Mar 6, 2018)

So I do have bluegrass! So it looks like it's time to choose a pre emergent and get some more starter fertilizer. Can I use the pre-m right after using fertilizer or should I wait?


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## Cincinnati guy (Mar 6, 2018)

The below photos are of my yard! It's not looking good, it did look good right after I planted the seeds in August! Now it looks like weeds are starting to overtake again!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

jessehurlburt said:


> lots of good info on pre-m (and lots of other stuff) in this thread, C-guy.
> 
> Cool Season Guide


^ For PreM - read this ^

I think your best approach is to go to Menards, Home Depot, Lowes, Costco, etc And get a bag of Crabgrass Preventer product that matches your lawn size and apply it now. The link above has details on how to buy it. That will get you PreM and fertilizer that you need.

The PreM will not address the weeds you see. It will prevent new ones. Also in the thread above you will find info around the weeds. You will need Weed B Gon and Weed B Gon CCO. After you apply the Crabgrass Preventer with fertilizer, your lawn and weeds will start to grow once the weather warms up (in around 2-3weeks). This is when you should apply the Weed B Gon. Your lawn is still young, so go easy on the Weed B Gon. Two weeks later (in 4-5 weeks), then apply the WBG CCO to whatever survives.


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## Cincinnati guy (Mar 6, 2018)

I've heard conflicting information with fertilizing new yards. I want to make sure I do not mess it up! I've seen where it was suggested to go heavy on the fertilizer on a newer yard and some say to go light but more often.

Here is what I plan on picking up tomorrow and throwing down.


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

A soil test Is a great tool used for making a fertilizer plan. Much less of a guessing game and guaranteed results.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Cincinnati guy said:


> I've heard conflicting information with fertilizing new yards. I want to make sure I do not mess it up! I've seen where it was suggested to go heavy on the fertilizer on a newer yard and some say to go light but more often.
> 
> Here is what I plan on picking up tomorrow and throwing down.





ABC123 said:


> A soil test Is a great tool used for making a fertilizer plan. Much less of a guessing game and guaranteed results.


I agree with ABC123 as well.

I'm not a big fan of fertilizing right away, like the turf to come up on its' own, and then start my fertilizer plan. Anyrate, do they have the Lesco 0-0-7 Dimension?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Cincinnati guy said:


> I've seen where it was suggested to go heavy on the fertilizer on a newer yard and some say to go light but more often.


Some of that variation in recommendations may be due to differences in soil. If your soil doesn't hold nutrients very well, for example, it is best to do lighter feedings more often so that you don't waste nutrients.


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## Cincinnati guy (Mar 6, 2018)

Should I stray away from the at home soil tests?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Cincinnati guy said:


> Should I stray away from the at home soil tests?


I would avoid home kits. 
A test from a university extension is a reasonable option. They are relatively inexpensive and provide recommendations at no additional cost.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Even labs can be relatively cheap if you can find one near by.

I found one i could drive my samples too, i think i paid $13 per sample for the full work up + recommendations?


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

social port said:


> A test from a university extension is a reasonable option. They are relatively inexpensive and provide recommendations at no additional cost.


I have been using Logan Labs the past few years but I think this year, I will see if I can drop off my soil sample to Rutgers (since they are in my back yard).


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

ericgautier said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> > A test from a university extension is a reasonable option. They are relatively inexpensive and provide recommendations at no additional cost.
> ...


I'm thinking of trying a university-based lab as well. I'm curious to know what you think of the services provided by Rutgers. When I lived in that area, I remember driving by several of their agricultural research programs.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

If the grass is green and has started growing, you can put down fertilizer. If it's not growing yet and you need to put down the pre-emergent/fertilizer to prevent crabgrass, you can split the application into 2 or 3 smaller applications, such as putting down half of it now and half of it in about a month. For example, with the Lesco 19-0-7, you could put down 2 pounds per thousand square feet now (or whenever the conditions in your area warrant), and then repeat it again in 4-6 weeks. That allows you to spread the Nitrogen out so it's used by the grass. Use Forsythia bloom as a good estimate for timing the first application. Every application does have to be watered in with 1/2 inch of water or more.

An alternative is a 0-0-7 Pre-emergent and a separate fertilizer, such as Milorganite.


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## Cincinnati guy (Mar 6, 2018)

According to this from Michigan State University I am at my prime time for pre emergent. I will go buy a thermometer to actually check the ground temp.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Cincinnati guy said:


> According to this from Michigan State University I am at my prime time for pre emergent. I will go buy a thermometer to actually check the ground temp.


Do you see forsythia plants blooming?


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

social port said:


> I'm thinking of trying a university-based lab as well. I'm curious to know what you think of the services provided by Rutgers. When I lived in that area, I remember driving by several of their agricultural research programs.


So I was looking at their test and they have a few to choose from.

Lawn, Shrubs, Flowers, Trees, or Home Vegetable or Fruit Garden:
Soil Fertility Analyses - Soil pH and nutrient availability (with recommendations)

or

Golf/Sports Turf Fertility Test
Nutrients, acidity, fertilizer & lime recommendations, estimated CEC and cation saturation.

both are $20. hmmm.... :? I think the better buy/value is the Golf/Sports Turf Fertility Test but not that is where we fall into.

https://njaes.rutgers.edu/soil-testing-lab/how-to.php


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Yes, GDD tracker is showing optimal for our areas, but we are having below normal temperature. My yard went into dormancy again after mowing twice. I'm going to wait until GDD hits ~375. There is nothing wrong with going early, only that it wears of earlier.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@ericgautier wow, the homeowner option (soil fertility analyses) seems light; I'm surprised. And kind of disappointed.
If it were me, I'd either shop for other options or call to verify that you don't get info such as OM with the homeowner option.


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## Cincinnati guy (Mar 6, 2018)

ericgautier said:


> Cincinnati guy said:
> 
> 
> > According to this from Michigan State University I am at my prime time for pre emergent. I will go buy a thermometer to actually check the ground temp.
> ...


Not sure! I'll have to see where some are first! I did check my soil temp in a few spots and it's right around 47-49 degrees.


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## Cincinnati guy (Mar 6, 2018)

And the waiting continues....This weather can not make up its mind. 60 one day next day snow/ice and today its nice and around 50...


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## Noclssgt (Apr 6, 2018)

Cincinnati guy said:


> And the waiting continues....This weather can not make up its mind. 60 one day next day snow/ice and today its nice and around 50...


I feel your pain. It was what, 77 Tuesday and then light snow Wednesday? 59 tomorrow and then snow again Friday night and Sunday night. I'm about 2 seconds from going outside and using an aerosol can in an unapproved manner!


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## Cincinnati guy (Mar 6, 2018)

Well here is just a little update.

I've been battling weeds In the renovated portion! So far I've used demons in to keep further weeds from coming up. I've sprayed the entire yard with weed be gon CCO a few weeks ago. It started to do some work on a few weeds but wasn't good enough. Last week I got some of the new round up for lawns and it seems to be slowly doing the trick. Most weeds are yellowing. I may do another application after I hit the 2 week mark.

Today I mowed a little lower to try to cut down the dead weeds. Little by little I'm seeing less and less yellow! Hopefully it does the trick! Now to keep applying the milorganite to get the yard growing thick!


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## Cincinnati guy (Mar 6, 2018)

Things are finally starting to take shape. I guess I lack the patience it takes.

After much chasing down weeds this spring I've got most of them taken care of thanks to Lesco pre emergent, weed b gon, cco, roundup for lawns, and 70 lbs of milorganite down this past weekend(man it smelled great)lol

You can look back at the progress from what I had to what I have now. Still a lot of work to do, I still have a few thin spots to take care of this fall.

Also need to work on leveling out some of the pumpy patches with a lawn roller and maybe some sand.

Take a look at the light green patches of grass in the photo, what does it look like to you?


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## Wolverine (Jan 17, 2018)

Light yellow stuff is Nutsedge


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