# Winter Weeds!



## bodean731 (Jun 13, 2019)

I sprayed a 6-month Prodiamine application in the fall, when soil temps got down to 70 degrees. I mowed at 1 inch the second half of the growing season, after getting my first reel mower. I live in west TN, in the transition zone between 6&7. It appears I am getting both leafy and grass-type winter weeds, despite my pre-emergent application. The Bermuda Bible says any weed killer from the big box stores is ok to use in the winter. I'm thinking of applying Image (the type that kills Poa and other cool season as well as worm season weeds). Does anyone else have any other suggestions? Also, I was hoping the pre-emergent wouldv\'ve worked better, and I really hoping I don't have as bad of a Poa and crabgrass problem this year (I'll spray Prodiamine again in late February).


----------



## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

I just ordered some Negate 37WG for the poa in my lawn. The description and reviews tout it as being a poa sniper.

https://www.domyown.com/negate-37wg-p-16655.html


----------



## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

Also, I hit it with Celsius about a week ago and even though it's slow going, areas of other broad leaf weeds are starting to lighten. The poa, however, is still holding strong.


----------



## Matthawk7 (Apr 5, 2019)

I thought fall pre-em went to work in the spring. Last spring pre-em should be working now. I'm probably wrong here so please correct if so


----------



## BermudaBoy (Jun 27, 2019)

Matthawk7 said:


> I thought fall pre-em went to work in the spring. Last spring pre-em should be working now. I'm probably wrong here so please correct if so


A good pre-em application lasts 4-6 months. Anything applied in the spring would have lost it's effectiveness by now. To prepare for winter a pre-em application should have been made in late summer/early fall when soil temps were about to fall below 70 degrees. I did my first in mid September and another two months later and I'm virtually weed free except for a lone intruder here or there.


----------



## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

I along with my neighbors have had really good results by using Prodiamine + Simazine. A total of six acres is 99.999 weed free. In the spring I use Simazine about a month prior to Prodiamine app. In the fall I reverse and spray Simazine about 1.5 months after prodiame app when the bermuda is going dormant. These two chemicals have different modes of action.

Very similiar to this:

http://www.greencastonline.com/imagehandler.ashx?ImID=e68d547a-6a2e-4c4e-ab0e-4b1535d333be&fTy=0&et=8


----------



## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

From all that I've read, Prodiamine isn't as good as Dithiopyr (Dimension) on broadleaf weeds. If I were you I might make the switch. As far as the Poa is concerned, some of that may actually be rye or "regular" bluegrass also. I'm currently battling both in my yard due to this warm January.


----------



## chadh (Aug 8, 2019)

I sprayed Speedzone sunday. Hoping that will take care of some of the broadleaf action going on.


----------



## lvlikeyv (Jan 26, 2019)

BermudaBoy said:


> I did my first in mid September and another two months later and I'm virtually weed free except for a lone intruder here or there.


You are laying down two Pre-E treatments within two months of each other? Same chems and everything? what is your application rate?

My situation is almost identical as the original post. Same two weeds showing as well. I am also current on my Pre-E applications but for some reason, it didn't work as well as I'd hoped (it's definitely better than last year which had no Pre-E)
I wouldn't mind the stray weed or two as they can easily be pulled. It's annoying when I have to broadcast anything or break into my Celsius after investing in the Prodiamine though.


----------



## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Negate is a good option for clean up. Another consideration for next year is actually to apply prodiamine and negate at the same time in October. Bonus points if you include simazine as well. That should control poa all season long and has multiple modes of action to help prevent developing a resistance population. Furthermore,, it's an incredibly economical choice. Lastly, save celisus for warm season. If someone is going after winter broadleaf any three way Ester will typically does the job.


----------



## BermudaBoy (Jun 27, 2019)

lvlikeyv said:


> BermudaBoy said:
> 
> 
> > I did my first in mid September and another two months later and I'm virtually weed free except for a lone intruder here or there.
> ...


I can't tell you the application rate but I followed the LCN's advice with the pre-em. The guy who used to maintain my lawn would do the same thing in the spring; one application in mid February and another in mid April and I've been virtually weed free for the last 4 years. Pre-em is still the area where I know very little so I trust the experts and it seems to be working.


----------



## lvlikeyv (Jan 26, 2019)

BermudaBoy said:


> I can't tell you the application rate but I followed the LCN's advice with the pre-em. The guy who used to maintain my lawn would do the same thing in the spring; one application in mid February and another in mid April and I've been virtually weed free for the last 4 years. Pre-em is still the area where I know very little so I trust the experts and it seems to be working.


Regardless of how many applications you put down, there is an annual maximum rate that needs to be adhered to. (If two applications, then half max rate per app, if three, then 1/3 max rate per app, etc) I'm not sure how splitting up the application amounts like that would help as you would be decreases the application rate/1000 square feet as the number of application increased.

I might try this method but with a little spin. Lay down half the annual max application of prodiamine early Feb, then follow up with half the annual max of dithiopyr late Feb/early March. and repeat in the fall. The label for Prodiamine states that it controls Henbit (The broad lead weed shown in the original post) but, I've read several posts about it not controlling it very well. Who knows, maybe it will add additional prevention against the Poa Annua.


----------



## BermudaBoy (Jun 27, 2019)

lvlikeyv said:


> BermudaBoy said:
> 
> 
> > I can't tell you the application rate but I followed the LCN's advice with the pre-em. The guy who used to maintain my lawn would do the same thing in the spring; one application in mid February and another in mid April and I've been virtually weed free for the last 4 years. Pre-em is still the area where I know very little so I trust the experts and it seems to be working.
> ...


I'm sure I didn't exceed the yearly maximum. At the time of the first application I researched how to calculate that but just like high school math, I don't remember any of that at the moment.

I did just do a weed check all of fifteen minutes ago and did pull up a few poa sprouts but both of my neighbors are have tons of it. It may not give me 100% protection but it looks like it will be a minor issue if any this year.


----------



## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

> might try this method but with a little spin. Lay down half the annual max application of prodiamine early Feb, then follow up with half the annual max of dithiopyr late Feb/early March. and repeat in the fall. The label for Prodiamine states that it controls Henbit (The broad lead weed shown in the original post) but, I've read several posts about it not controlling it very well. Who knows, maybe it will add additional prevention against the Poa Annua.


I think this is not a good idea. If you watch Matt Martin video below he says you will not get the same results by using half rate of both chemicals. They do not bind together. That is why you can use two full rate applications that have different modes of action. Better to go out with full rate of prodiamine then follow up later with full rate of dithiopyr. Look at about the 10:15 mark of the video. It cost more but you get better coverage.


----------



## lvlikeyv (Jan 26, 2019)

cldrunner said:


> I think this is not a good idea. If you watch Matt Martin video below he says you will not get the same results by using half rate of both chemicals. T


Half rate as in 1/2 the annual max per application (One app in spring, one app in fall). So it would still be the full yearly amount allowed for both prodiamine and Dithopyr. I say half because I apply one in march and on in fall.

He actually advises using the method I just stated right after the 1/2 rate application note.


----------



## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

lvlikeyv said:


> cldrunner said:
> 
> 
> > I think this is not a good idea. If you watch Matt Martin video below he says you will not get the same results by using half rate of both chemicals. T
> ...


Ok. You are making 1/2 rate of Prodiamine and Dithopyr in spring and fall. I get it. This gives you a broad range which i think is the approach I am using. I used Simazine and Prodiamine in the fall and will be doing the same in a few weeks. In addition to that I am thinking of using the full rate of Dithyopr in late March or early April here in the DFW area.


----------



## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

cldrunner said:


> > might try this method but with a little spin. Lay down half the annual max application of prodiamine early Feb, then follow up with half the annual max of dithiopyr late Feb/early March. and repeat in the fall. The label for Prodiamine states that it controls Henbit (The broad lead weed shown in the original post) but, I've read several posts about it not controlling it very well. Who knows, maybe it will add additional prevention against the Poa Annua.
> 
> 
> I think this is not a good idea. If you watch Matt Martin video below he says you will not get the same results by using half rate of both chemicals. They do not bind together. That is why you can use two full rate applications that have different modes of action. Better to go out with full rate of prodiamine then follow up later with full rate of dithiopyr. Look at about the 10:15 mark of the video. It cost more but you get better coverage.


Prodiamine and dithiopyr are the exact same mode of action class pre-em. There is a substantial amount of overlap in terms of what they control. Applying both might give you greater breadth of weed control, but they are both root pruning type of pre-ems, and you aren't gaining any advantages at preventing resistance.

As an example on poa, prodiamine, simazine, and monument give you three different modes of action to control the poa population, and using them all at the same time (meaning multiple MOAs) is a highly suggested managment practice to reduce the change of building a resistant population.


----------



## w0lfe (Mar 19, 2018)

I've got poa bad this season... I'm hesitant to buy negate though. It just seems most of these chemicals are for people with small lawns lol. It'd cost me over a hundred bucks of negate to do one application for poa. I'm just curious if it's the best option for me to take vs poa on 2 acres.


----------



## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

w0lfe said:


> I've got poa bad this season... I'm hesitant to buy negate though. It just seems most of these chemicals are for people with small lawns lol. It'd cost me over a hundred bucks of negate to do one application for poa. I'm just curious if it's the best option for me to take vs poa on 2 acres.


Broadcast app of glyphosate would be a contender. I'm going to PM you as well.


----------

