# Have you mixed KBG into TTTF...were you happy with it??



## confused_boner (Apr 5, 2021)

Hello,

Trying to decide if I should go straight TTTF or tttf/KBG mix from gci...

Any advice/experience is much appreciated!


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## Mdjamesd (Sep 5, 2019)

I had an old k31 style fescue lawn, who knows how old it was. For a few years I had overseedes with Black Beauty, and it started looking better. Finally last year I overseedes with straight KBG. I stressed the old lawn, and pampered the KBG.

As of now, 1 year later, I have mostly KBG, and only a few spots of the older K31 which I remove with a dethatching rake.

Overall, I'm pretty darn happy with it. If you want the repairing ability of the KBG, you might consider pregerminating some seed, spreading it, and see where that lands you.


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## zackroof (Oct 27, 2019)

I did a 3K reno last year with my own mix of 4th Millenium TTTF and Midnight KBG. (85%/15%). Came out great. It definitely looks almost all TTTF - to be expected given the low amount of KBG. But the KBG is definitely there when one looks.

Maybe the decision comes down to what cultivars you're looking at. And then what your particular goal is for having some mix - disease offset, repairability, look/feel, etc.


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## confused_boner (Apr 5, 2021)

@Mdjamesd I asked a user in another thread this but I want to ask you as well, how do you dry the seed after pre-germination?


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## confused_boner (Apr 5, 2021)

@zackroof I see, custom blend sounds interesting...did you just by the two separate, then mix and spread? Did you worry about uneven spread or is that a non issue?


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## johnklein25 (Apr 22, 2021)

confused_boner said:


> Hello,
> 
> Trying to decide if I should go straight TTTF or tttf/KBG mix from gci...
> 
> Any advice/experience is much appreciated!


I live in the St, Louis area.... I think in the parts of the Midwest that are prone to heat waves and dry spells make it a lot more difficult to keep a KBG lawn looking good in the summer. I went with straight seed super store shade TTTF last fall and I'm really happy with it. I really didn't water that much thru our last hot/dry spell and I saw no signs of the TTTF browning.

Barenbrug seeds might be an alternative to GCI. Advanced Turf Solutions is a Barenbrug dealer and they have a store in the KC area if you want to buy from a brick and mortar. I bought a bag of RTTTF from the St. Peters MO Location that I'll be using this fall. I just planted some in a pot over the weekend to see what it looks like.


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## confused_boner (Apr 5, 2021)

@johnklein25 I'm glad you shared that...I'm starting to think KBG may not be a good idea for our region lol I was def looking at the RTTTF...just not convinced it will be worth it. Tried to look up reviews but it's so new that there is just not much out there. I did go with GCI TTTF last year and super happy with it. Based on your advice I think I will stick to TTTF, gonna go with JGBB original this year, then maybe next year the RTTTF. Ill have to remind myself to look up your posts to see if you post any results :lol:


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## Mdjamesd (Sep 5, 2019)

@confused_boner , I used a slit seeder on my lawn. For my neighbors lawn, we spread the seed on a sheet of cardboard, let it sit at room temp for 30 min or so, then tossed with milorganite/peat moss mix. Spread it with a Scott's Wiz spreader


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## youngaa1 (Aug 3, 2020)

I did my own mix of 4th Millennium and NuGlad Kentucky Bluegrass (now Berenburg technically) around a shed I put in last Fall. This was all new grass, not an overseed. It was only 1,600 sq ft.. Looking back at my notes, I'm not 100% sure of the ratio I did. Was either a 80/20 or a 90/10. Jacklin recommends 20% NuGlad with Tall Fescue. Thinking 80/20 is what I did. Planted it mid-late August and came in great well before the cooler weather. It's doing super well right now (based in Michigan). It's dark and thick right now and I'm liking the look for sure. Chose those two based on results from NTEP results for East Lansing, MI. Since this was a small area, mixing was super simple. I bought mine separate and mixed it myself making sure I had the right ratio (checked my math several times to confirm).

I did overseed the majority of my lawn last Fall as well with 4th Millennium and I couldn't be more happier right now. There are some trouble trouble spots I need to address but for 95% of the lawn, I'm really liking everything. (I overseeded into a JG Black Beauty Ultra planting from Fall of 2019). All of my grass is non-irrigated by the way.

I guess it really depends on what you're looking for. Zackroof's suggestion is a good one. You're in KC, so an all TTTF blend might make more sense as you may get some hot weather for longer stretches? But if you got irrigation, that really wouldn't matter I suppose.


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## youngaa1 (Aug 3, 2020)

confused_boner said:


> @johnklein25 I'm glad you shared that...I'm starting to think KBG may not be a good idea for our region lol I was def looking at the RTTTF...just not convinced it will be worth it. Tried to look up reviews but it's so new that there is just not much out there. I did go with GCI TTTF last year and super happy with it. Based on your advice I think I will stick to TTTF, gonna go with JGBB original this year, then maybe next year the RTTTF. Ill have to remind myself to look up your posts to see if you post any results :lol:


I might suggest skipping the JGBB Original unless you can find an amazing deal and know exactly the cultivars in the bag. It'll come with weed seeds in it unless they have changed their process. And based on their pricing, you may not be saving anything over a quality mixture from someone else. Unless you can get it in stock somewhere by you to analyze the bag and can save a ton of money, I'd suggest getting a blend from somewhere else. Even though I used JG for my first large seeding project (40,000 sq.ft), I wish I hadn't and spent just a touch more for a 80/20 mix or a 100% TTTF blend.


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## zackroof (Oct 27, 2019)

confused_boner said:


> @zackroof I see, custom blend sounds interesting...did you just by the two separate, then mix and spread? Did you worry about uneven spread or is that a non issue?


Yup - bought separate and mixed myself. Then spread like normal. I think the mixing was pretty good, and I was constantly remixing to make sure equitable distribution within the spreader. It seemed to work out fine - no issues with large swaths of either variety.


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## johnklein25 (Apr 22, 2021)

confused_boner said:


> @johnklein25 I'm glad you shared that...I'm starting to think KBG may not be a good idea for our region lol I was def looking at the RTTTF...just not convinced it will be worth it. Tried to look up reviews but it's so new that there is just not much out there. I did go with GCI TTTF last year and super happy with it. Based on your advice I think I will stick to TTTF, gonna go with JGBB original this year, then maybe next year the RTTTF. Ill have to remind myself to look up your posts to see if you post any results :lol:


The sales person I spoke to about the Barenbrug RTTTF said it takes up to 3 years for the RTTTF to start spreading by rhizomes, which is a long time, but I'm OK with that because the only other rhizomatous grass that kind of works in St. Louis is Zoysia, which has to be scalped every year, mowed low, and spreads slow, and is slow to green up. If my lawn/lot was flat, I might convert to Zoysia but I'm basically on a hillside where scalping and mowing low is pretty hard to do so RTTTF it is. I know there are some really experienced LCN's that have KBG lawns in the St. Louis area but I know I can't keep up with that much watering so I ruled that out.

I planted some of my new RTTTF seed in a pot with potting soil to see if it will spread at all in "ideal" conditions. If it does I'll be pretty thrilled. Hopefully the color looks about the same as my existing TTTF.


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

I'm going to overseed with a 90/10 TTTF/KBG mix this fall in NC for the first time. Main goal is to have some spreading capability in the backyard where the dog creates some spots. I don't have high hopes but want to try it out since I can irrigate about 90% of my lawn. Worst case scenario, the KBG never takes hold in germination since it is just an overseed, or dies next summer. But if it works out, I get another layer of defense. I've heard the rTTTF stuff doesn't spread much so thinking KBG mixed in may be a more viable option, but :shrug:


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## 01Bullitt (Aug 31, 2020)

stevehollx said:


> I'm going to overseed with a 90/10 TTTF/KBG mix this fall in NC for the first time. Main goal is to have some spreading capability in the backyard where the dog creates some spots. I don't have high hopes but want to try it out since I can irrigate about 90% of my lawn. Worst case scenario, the KBG never takes hold in germination since it is just an overseed, or dies next summer. But if it works out, I get another layer of defense. I've heard the rTTTF stuff doesn't spread much so thinking KBG mixed in may be a more viable option, but :shrug:


I overseeded my back yard in central NC last fall and mixed in 5# of bluegrass with 50# of TTTF out of curiosity. I can visually spot the bluegrass in my back yard and it is holding up very well so far and I don't have irrigation.


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

01Bullitt said:


> stevehollx said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to overseed with a 90/10 TTTF/KBG mix this fall in NC for the first time. Main goal is to have some spreading capability in the backyard where the dog creates some spots. I don't have high hopes but want to try it out since I can irrigate about 90% of my lawn. Worst case scenario, the KBG never takes hold in germination since it is just an overseed, or dies next summer. But if it works out, I get another layer of defense. I've heard the rTTTF stuff doesn't spread much so thinking KBG mixed in may be a more viable option, but :shrug:
> ...


Yup. There are some people in Greensboro and a bunch in ST Louis that have KBG, and STL is basically the same rainfall and high temps as Charlotte (except STL gets more snow and colder temps) so in theory it should be able to relatively survive even though it may go dormant. I plan to overseed with a KBG mix the next few years to see if I can establish enough KBG that will creep and self-repair dog spots and heavy wear areas better. We'll see! Interested to hear if you see any more dormancy in July/Aug with some KBG in there as we hit the hot months.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

My front yard can get fairly hot during the summer and I tried straight TTTF a few years ago in one section, next to the RV. I regretted not having the repairability of the kbg and wound up overseeding that area with my own mix of TTTF/KBG. As a result, overseeding is needed on a much smaller scale nowadays. I'm an NTEP junkie, and suggest checking their studies for the best rated cultivars for your area. Some folks have good success growing kbg in hotter locations. @bernstem and @NoslracNevok are in the St. Louis area with kbg lawns, if you want to check out their journals. With some looking, you should be able to find others. I remember seeing folks in NC who grew kbg.


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## CardsFan (Jun 9, 2021)

I also live in the St. Louis area and my experience with a mix of 90/10 TTTF/KBG has been disappointing. 
Winning Colors is a popular TTTF mix (sod farm's also use it) used in this area and when I noticed they offered a version with KBG it sounded good however I couldn't locate any so I mixed my own KBG in. What I have experienced over the past 3 years is despite ample bi weekly irrigation the tendency for the KBG to go dormant ahead of the fescue was a real challenge. It gives you the impression you have brown patch, which isn't the case. I really think the TTTF/KBG mix is an extremely maintenance intensive option in the transition zone. Skip the headaches and just over seed as needed when you aerate in the fall with same straight TTTF. 
Yes, rhizomes in KBG are a nice benefit in that they fill in however I believe The uniform look of straight TTTF is very nice and simple to maintain. Just my personal opinion.
Get your seed now; fall is just around the corner.


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## Amorae (May 14, 2019)

Mdjamesd said:


> @confused_boner , I used a slit seeder on my lawn. For my neighbors lawn, we spread the seed on a sheet of cardboard, let it sit at room temp for 30 min or so, then tossed with milorganite/peat moss mix. Spread it with a Scott's Wiz spreader


Regarding using the slit seeder, did you pregerminate the seed and then place it directly in the slit seeder? Did you mix the seed with anything first? Did it clog the slit seeder at all? Considering this method myself. Thanks in advance!


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## needtoknow (Oct 3, 2020)

Really wondering about doing this with a hybrid KBG like SPF-30 (over my 4th Millenium).

Anyone have any thoughts about how that will work in Southern Kentucky?


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## Overtaxed (May 9, 2021)

> Really wondering about doing this with a hybrid KBG like SPF-30 (over my 4th Millenium).


I have a mix of SPF-30 and TTTF. It blends well, I can see the difference if I dig into the lawn, you'd never notice it unless you laid down and started looking for it (IE, nobody but a total lawn nut would ever see it). I also have CRF in some shady areas, that's you can notice pretty easily because it's so fine compared to HBG and TTTF. It doesn't bother me, I think the CRF is beautiful, but you'd notice that some areas have a lot more CRF than others pretty quickly if you were looking for it.


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