# Transition zone - Is anyone still fertilizing?



## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

Our first freeze brought with it very cold temperatures and an unusually cold weather duration of about 10 days to follow.

Now air temperatures and soil temperatures are back to average. High 55-60 low 35-40. Soil temps are around 50.

The 10 day forecast has more of the same.

Is anyone resuming fertilizer after the cold snap? Or perhaps you never stopped?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Wow...you guys have almost caught up to us now with the cold. Soil temps are just around 40 here.

Assuming you're talking about cool season grass, not the Bermuda.

Maybe @social port will see this. Well, he will now. :mrgreen:


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

Yes talking about fescue. I did a renovation on the back yard. We had a few days where the low dropped down below 20 and the high never got above freezing. So the soil temperatures dropped to 40. Since then the ground has warmed back up.


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

Yes, I never stopped, but I didn't get much out of the apps during the cold snap. I'm still doing it weekly as a spray at between 0.2 and 0.3 lbs N/M.


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

CarolinaCuttin said:


> Yes, I never stopped, but I didn't get much out of the apps during the cold snap. I'm still doing it weekly as a spray at between 0.2 and 0.3 lbs N/M.


Thanks @CarolinaCuttin! How much longer will you continue pushing growth?


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

Easyluck said:


> CarolinaCuttin said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I never stopped, but I didn't get much out of the apps during the cold snap. I'm still doing it weekly as a spray at between 0.2 and 0.3 lbs N/M.
> ...


I will probably be ready to spray whenever we get a warm week throughout the winter. If the highs are in the 60s and we aren't getting a morning freeze/frost I'll probably go for it. I need all the growth out of these seedlings to get them ready for the heat next year. I'm also using RGS and Humic12 at 3 oz/M in all of these sprays to hopefully prepare for summer. It's my first go with GCF products so we'll see!


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

I renovated Oct 12 w 2nd round (Fixing washouts) Oct 21... that arctic blast came Nov 12-14 and I finally got my 2nd mow in yesterday! It's been slow going this year. I've been throwing down 2# of Scott's Turf builder 32-0-10 every 2 weeks (after the initial Starter fert) and I did fertilize the day after that cold front passed (along with some Feature).

I need to encourage as much root growth as possible. I'm mulling throwing some Milo down as a "winterizer" with these mild temps being forecast ... thinking it'll feed over the winter as the temps allow (??). @CarolinaCuttin how crazy of an idea is that?? The Milo website technically calls for a Thanksgiving app for cool season grasses so it can't be that crazy.


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## Ge0rdi3brit (Aug 30, 2018)

@corneliani I wouldn't advise using Milo as a winterizer. I know they market to put it down around Thanksgiving, but it's an organic fertilizer which requires heat to break it down and get it absorbed into the soil. Focus on synthetic fertilizers when ground temps are this cold. The organics are much better for warmer temps.


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

I agree with @@Ge0rdi3brit that you won't see much effect this winter with a Milo app, but it will still be hanging around in Spring to start you off right, so it depends on your goals.

If spraying is hard because of lawn size, I really like the Calcium Nitrate I get from my local Southern States. 50 pound bag of 15.5-0-0 with a biodegradable coating (Yara Liva Tropicote) on the prills to prevent burning and water absorption. It won't slow down the release, 0.25" of irrigation of rain will wash it in. Nitrate is the best form of N for new seedlings because it is immediately bioavailable.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I'm not measuring, but my impression is that growth for my TTTF has been incredibly slow for at least 2 weeks. I don't plan to fertilize TTTF again this year. 
If you have any bluegrass in your yard, then fertilizing now makes sense, IMO.

Agree with others that Milorganite is best served during warmer temps. I like AMS in colder weather.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

social port said:


> I'm not measuring, but my impression is that growth for my TTTF has been incredibly slow for at least 2 weeks. I don't plan to fertilize TTTF again this year.
> If you have any bluegrass in your yard, then fertilizing now makes sense, IMO.


I'm curious, what's the thought process behind the differing approach for the two grasses? I've always treated them the same, but then again that's because I have them mixed, so I've never had to go through the thought process. What observations or ideas is this based on?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Green said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not measuring, but my impression is that growth for my TTTF has been incredibly slow for at least 2 weeks. I don't plan to fertilize TTTF again this year.
> ...


Hey Green,
Different growth periods. During the late fall/early winter, the bluegrass stays greener and continues to grow, albeit slowly. I reason that bluegrass can use a little more nitrogen and it continues to grow in colder temps, so feed if you can. 
I recall at least one other t'zone bluegrass-grower that also fertilizes in late Nov and into December.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

social port said:


> Different growth periods. During the late fall/early winter, the bluegrass stays greener and continues to grow, albeit slowly. I reason that bluegrass can use a little more nitrogen and it continues to grow in colder temps, so feed if you can.
> I recall at least one other t'zone bluegrass-grower that also fertilizes in late Nov and into December.


Interesting. Now I wonder which grass type most of the clippings were from when I bag mowed today to see if growth had stopped or not (not quite yet in some areas). I had assumed clippings were from both the TTTF and KBG, but it's also possible it wasn't equal. I didn't inspect the clippings to try to see if more were one grass type or the other, or both.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Green said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> > Different growth periods. During the late fall/early winter, the bluegrass stays greener and continues to grow, albeit slowly. I reason that bluegrass can use a little more nitrogen and it continues to grow in colder temps, so feed if you can.
> ...


I think I would put a little money on the bluegrass.


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## Methodical (May 3, 2018)

Legally in MD, we can't fertilize past November 15th, which was my last application. At this point, if I did anything, all I'd do is spray RGS and Humic to continue working on the soil and leave the fertilizing until next spring (save your Milorganite). I wouldn't want to push things and then the weather turns bad and stunt things too quickly - can't predict Mother Nature.


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

My thought process with considering Milo is that, since our soil temps historically barely dip below 40 during our coldest time of the year (coincidentally the dormancy threshold for TTTF, I'm told), I could use Milo as a self-feeding mechanism - where the soil microbes can feed as temperatures allow OR let the Milo just sit there during the colder portions of winter. Having a source of microbe food in the soil that does not leach or volatize makes a lot of sense in my head.

Reading up on what temps soil microbes are active at lead me back to Milorganite's website, where they claim it's between 55 and 85 degrees.. which means I may have to resort to the occasional small amount of liquid fert for winter feedings. I guess the late winter Milo app that they recommend is purely for early spring green up (??).


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## Methodical (May 3, 2018)

corneliani said:


> ...I guess the late winter Milo app that they recommend is purely for early spring green up (??).


I believe that is their, as well as the other companies, reasoning, too. But, if you drop Milorganite early in the spring, the iron will make it green up while the other goodies come to life. Because my phosphorus is already at the optimum level, per soil tests, I don't use it anymore. I've resorted to Purely Organic fertilizer (summer apps), which doesn't contain any phosphorus or iron, but I can subsidize it with some liquid iron. My go to fertilizer now is Turfgro 24-0-11; it contains iron and a host of other micro nutrients goodies to help sweeten the soil; I'm working at keeping the soil base at an optimum level. Plus, the price is very reasonable and I can get 2-3 applications from one bag. In the fall, it's all 46-0-0, no Milo or any organics; just pure high test stuff.


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

Yes I put down granular with prodiamine yesterday (at the end of two 30 day apps of tenacity). I plan to apply 18-0-1 green punch next week. Still in the 60's at my local.


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

Thanks @Bigdrumnc !

I think I'll do one more app of .25 lbs per 1000 Urea and probably another round of RGS. Another cold snap is coming the first of December.


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## ScottW (Sep 16, 2019)

I fertilized pretty continuously once I started the blitz, but I started a bit late after a partial reno/overseed so as not to push the existing turf to outgrow the new seedlings. Started with just .25 lbs N/M from 10-10-10 early October, then 0.5 lbs N/M every 2 weeks from urea or AMS. Last Thursday I used up a bag of Vigoro 28-0-10 to get it out of my garage, worked out to about 0.75 lbs N/M with about 7% of the N being slow release, bringing the total to 2.5 lbs N/M for the blitz. That will likely be the final app since growth has really slowed up here. Still mowing to mulch leaves but there's not much grass being cut.


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## GA_Fescue_Man (Jan 7, 2019)

I put down a larger application of nitrogen (1.36 #/M) on 11/11/2019. I'm a little north of downtown Atlanta and that was my last application of the year (I've reached my nitrogen limit for the fall). Shoot growth has slowed significantly, but the soil temperatures (4 inch depth) have been between 48 to 60 degrees the last couple of weeks. The next 5 days look really nice as well, but around 12/02, it looks like things are going to cool off a good bit. Around the first of the month would be a good time to apply a winterizer for the metro ATL folks. Hope you guys have a nice holiday!


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## somosturf (Nov 14, 2019)

I'm in Columbus, OH and I did an early Fall reno on my front yard using SSS' sunny mixture. 
Kinder starter fert 19-26-6, and Milo
Day 22, Humic DG
Day 28, 12-12-12, 0.5N/K Tall Pine
Day 36, 12-12-12, 0.5N/K Tall Pine
Day 41, 23-0-20, 1.15N/K Kinder Turfbuilder
Oct 12th, topdressed with sand and screened compost
Oct 20th, prodiamine 
The first part of November brought cold temps and 1" of snow. 
Nov 9th, 12-12-12, 0.5N/K Tall Pine
Nov 21st, 46-0-0, 0.95N/K Urea
It's 40° today and while this weekend might get into the 50s, I'm done with feeding until late spring.


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## troksd (Jul 27, 2018)

I am still spoon feeding


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

Was gonna post a question to the T-zone KBG growers myself when I saw this thread. I'm convinced that I could've fed through the entire winter the past few years. I usually switch to ammonium sulfate once the temps start to fall, but I just don't have the time to spoon feed. I had started to research the existence of coated AS, etc and stumbled across an ammonium nitrate/sulfate blend from Simplot called FUSN. I hadn't thought about calcium nitrate. Thanks for that tip @CarolinaCuttin. I'll have to do some research. Also, regarding the TTTF and KBG comparison... my TTTF (4th Millennium & Raptor 3) stopped showing any significant growth 4-5 weeks ago, but KBG (and Poa Triv  ) are going strong.


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

vnephologist said:


> Was gonna post a question to the T-zone KBG growers myself when I saw this thread. I'm convinced that I could've fed through the entire winter the past few years. I usually switch to ammonium sulfate once the temps start to fall, but I just don't have the time to spoon feed. I had started to research the existence of coated AS, etc and stumbled across an ammonium nitrate/sulfate blend from Simplot called FUSN. I hadn't thought about calcium nitrate. Thanks for that tip @CarolinaCuttin. I'll have to do some research. Also, regarding the TTTF and KBG comparison... my TTTF (4th Millennium & Raptor 3) stopped showing any significant growth 4-5 weeks ago, but KBG (and Poa Triv  ) are going strong.


Not trying to push you, but at 2150 sqft, I would think you could spray your lawn in 30 mins or less including mixing and cleaning the sprayer with a manual pump backpack sprayer. If you have 30 minutes once a week that would allow you to spray all of your nutrients, and if it's once a month maybe a hybrid granular/spray program. I switched to almost 100% spray (1000 sqft lawn) when I did research into foliar feeding. I would recommend it to anyone that has a smaller lawn like ours.


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

CarolinaCuttin said:


> Not trying to push you, but at 2150 sqft, I would think you could spray your lawn in 30 mins or less including mixing and cleaning the sprayer with a manual pump backpack sprayer. If you have 30 minutes once a week that would allow you to spray all of your nutrients, and if it's once a month maybe a hybrid granular/spray program. I switched to almost 100% spray (1000 sqft lawn) when I did research into foliar feeding. I would recommend it to anyone that has a smaller lawn like ours.


Ugh, you're right!  Best to spray quick release when weather is optimal too. I have to say that it does take me longer than 30 mins, though. It isn't the spray, but the weigh, mix, clean-up that really add to the time, I find. I really need to do some pre-mix to have at the ready.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

vnephologist said:


> Also, regarding the TTTF and KBG comparison... my TTTF (4th Millennium & Raptor 3) stopped showing any significant growth 4-5 weeks ago, but KBG (and Poa Triv  ) are going strong.


You're the second person I've seen recently to say that. @social port reported the same.

And my own experience is that Poa Triv grows in even colder conditions than the other cool season grasses. I've even seen it grow slightly in the middle of January here in the Northeast during a few days of temps in the low 40s...you start wondering why your lawn is suddenly looking a bit uneven in the middle of Winter.


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

vnephologist said:


> CarolinaCuttin said:
> 
> 
> > Not trying to push you, but at 2150 sqft, I would think you could spray your lawn in 30 mins or less including mixing and cleaning the sprayer with a manual pump backpack sprayer. If you have 30 minutes once a week that would allow you to spray all of your nutrients, and if it's once a month maybe a hybrid granular/spray program. I switched to almost 100% spray (1000 sqft lawn) when I did research into foliar feeding. I would recommend it to anyone that has a smaller lawn like ours.
> ...


Yes, I completely forgot about that. I either use a liquid product or pre-mix my soluble granulars so that when it's time to spray I'm just measuring the liquids and going.


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## O_Poole (Jun 5, 2018)

I give ProPeat 11-11-11 a try applied Oct-18th and loving the Color! Can't wait to try there 13-5-8 in a few weeks!


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

I mowed yesterday and today I applied 18-0-1 greene punch. I am waiting until right before a serious cold snap to apply 34-0-0 fast release then I am done. It's supposed to be relatively warm this week.


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

I dropped .48#n/1000 of CarbonX before the rains came in this afternoon.. the temps were in the 60's this morning!
I noticed my grass turning light-green in places and thinking that my last app from 3.5 weeks ago is running out. Planning on throwing some Iron (Lesco 12-0-0) once these rains move out tomorrow to see if that'll help (also I need to use it up as it's beginning to oxidize in the jug!).

With this warm season we've been having we may not have much of a dormant period after all. We're 10 weeks out from the scheduled Round 1 fertilizer!!


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## somosturf (Nov 14, 2019)

Whoa, whoa, whoa... Is the ATL really in the transition zone? I'm reading 24 degrees here in Ohio. It was 50 degrees yesterday (Dec 9th). Now that's a transition!


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

I'm just starting to see some yellow blades here in VA as well. It'll also be in the 60's here today, though. I dropped 0.45#N/M of Calcium Nitrate last week.


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

somosturf said:


> Whoa, whoa, whoa... Is the ATL really in the transition zone? I'm reading 24 degrees here in Ohio. It was 50 degrees yesterday (Dec 9th). Now that's a transition!


Hahaha @somosturf ! I never looked at 'transition zone' in that sense. lol

I'm wondering if your zone may not be better called 'bipolar' with the swings you've had.  Winter's a comin!


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

Ya time flys!


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## somosturf (Nov 14, 2019)

corneliani said:


> somosturf said:
> 
> 
> > Whoa, whoa, whoa... Is the ATL really in the transition zone? I'm reading 24 degrees here in Ohio. It was 50 degrees yesterday (Dec 9th). Now that's a transition!
> ...


It's totally bipolar! I think we've finally turned the corner for good. It's going to stay cold until March. 
I still have one last round of leaf pick up. :|


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## somosturf (Nov 14, 2019)

vnephologist said:


> I'm just starting to see some yellow blades here in VA as well. It'll also be in the 60's here today, though. I dropped 0.45#N/M of Calcium Nitrate last week.


Still holding green today.


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