# Need Help Getting started



## Pyrotect (10 mo ago)

Hello all, I am new to the forum and could really use the help. i have a little over 2 acres of "lawn" in the country that has not been taken care of properly and I have another 3+ acres that have been bush hogged but nothing else in over 5 years. The property was used for pine tree farming for years before the house went in. I have just gotten my first soil test back from Waypoint. It was taken from a depth of 3-4 inches in 3 different spots for a good average and Needing some help getting started. This is all new to me but I have people telling me to lime (liquid or granular), to Spray 2-4-D, to just over seed right now and let the "good grass grow". I am hoping for more of a good guide points from here because everyone out here grows sellable hay and I want a good stable nice looking grass yard that I can feed Livestock after clipping. Thank you in advance for the advice.

Pyrotect

P.S. I live in eastern Tennessee


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

I suggest you get in touch with your local University of Tennessee extension agent and get advice. Show them your soil test. The kind of grass to use may depend on what kind of livestock you plan to feed. It may be advisable to include some legumes, like clover. Some livestock have problems with certain kinds of fescue. Read this article:
https://www.hpj.com/livestock/pasture-renovation-school-teaches-avoiding-endophyte-free-tall-fescue/article_aebf32d8-ca9a-5edd-8c92-58d017e876cb.html
The soil test is telling you what nutrients to use and how much lime to apply. Do some research and talk to your local agent about what kind of grass and when and how to plant it.


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## Pyrotect (10 mo ago)

That is the plan Virginiagal. I am trying to get a handle on terms and base knowledge while I was waiting for the appointment with the extension agent and I have called my local USDA soil management team as well.

As I currently understand the Kentucky 31 is the standard hay/grass that is harvested and sold here. I am currently feeding the horses that from a farmer right up the other side of the county. my problem is more of the yard side and planting. I will look into the legumes but it cant be clover mostly due to the horses loving it so much they might break/jump the fence for it. Don't want to wake up to horses grazing in my front yard. haha

To your last statement of direction. I see the instructions but I'm not really aware of the right way to go about it or suggested products to use. I know I can by granulated lime in bulk near by and rent a spreader but I can also buy super lime concentrate and a sprayer for about 30% more. This is where I really wanted to be for the opinions on lawn side. I am sure the members have used these products before and can give me honest personal reviews. I can't find any online dealing with small properties only industrial farm reviews of conditioned field that produce yearly.

Thank you for the info and any other articles and hints that can get me in the right direction.
Pyrotect


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm not clear in your goals. Do you want to grow grass to feed the horses or you want a normal turf lawn?


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Kentucky 31 doesn't seem to be a a good thing to feed horses. Another article on endophyte issues:
https://extension.okstate.edu/fact-sheets/fescue-toxicity-and-horses.html
https://equine.ca.uky.edu/content/justifying-kentucky-31-tall-fescue-no-more

I'm not familiar with spraying lime from a concentrate. I maintain 2000 sq ft, not acres. Ask the extension agent what he recommends. As for the fertilizer, you could use a balanced fertilizer (like 10-10-10) for some applications and a nitrogen only fertilizer (like urea, 50-0-0) for the others. It looks like you need roughly twice as much nitrogen as phosphorus and potassium. Most fertilizer for cool season grass should be done in the fall. Avoid the summer (unless you do a warm season grass like Bermuda). In general, don't apply more than 1 lb of a nutrient per 1000 sq ft. in a monthly application. That's 43.56 lb per acre. So you could do two 40 lb/acre applications in the spring and three in the fall. If one of the spring and one of the fall ones are the balanced fertilizer, that gives you 80 lb of P and K. For another application, if you do half balanced and half urea, that would get you to the soil test recommendation for P and K, and leave you to do two applications of just urea. The numbers on a fertilizer bag give percentages of N, P, and K in the product. The agent may have suggestions on how to spread stuff over such a large area. It might be possible to spray instead, at least for urea. The recommendations seem a bit excessive for nitrogen, but maybe it's because it's geared to forage. Generally tall fescue needs 2-3 lb of nitrogen per 1000 sq ft a year. Talk to the agent about all this.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

If you're using urea, 50-0-0, to get 40 lb of N, you would use 80 lb of urea. If you're using 10-10-10, you would use 400 lb of product. If using 20-20-20, you would use 200 lb. If you don't have grass now to feed, just weeds, there's no point in fertilizing them. Lime takes time to change soil pH, so the earlier you get that down, the better.

If you haven't read the cool season guide, there is a lot of good information there, including info on renovations and overseeds:
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1595

Talk to your vet about what your horses should be eating. Maybe they should be getting some clover in their pasture.

Think about how you will irrigate. I would limit the "nice" grass around the house to the area you can water.


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## Pyrotect (10 mo ago)

Thank you Virginiagal for the Justifying KY31 article. I had not read that and it brings up some good points I'm currently feeding a fescue orchard blend but I don't know the specific seed type.it was tested by my vet and confirmed that it is a good quality of forage for my animal due to them being mostly in a dry lot. I was unconcerned of Toxicity in breading mares because I didn't have any but the other data is compelling enough to look at other options of fescue. The KY31 is supplied in bulk in several Ag stores locally and it seamed to be the best choice with the data I had at that time.

As for the timing I am aware that this whole process will take time and a lot of work. most of this is prep work for the fall when I can plant. I am planning to scrape away most of the undesired weeds in the next few weeks so when I plant the new growth isn't competing with hardy established plants. Between trying to get the soil conditions right for planting and getting the timing right to rent equipment (I take a lower priority at rental places due to I'm not a traditional farmer during plating season) I have a lot to do. That is why I was glad to see the the better explanation that you gave so i can see timing and things I might need to plan for. I have a appointment with the agent in 2 weeks and I'm trying to get a good idea of what this entails before I get there.

Thank you all again,
Pyrotect


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Before you scrape away the weeds, keep in mind that they are providing erosion control. It may be best to wait until closer to planting time. Roundup would kill the roots while scraping won't necessarily kill the weeds. You can just keep the weeds mowed until time to kill them.

I am wondering about the idea of collecting your clippings to feed the horses. It seems like a lot of work with heavy bags of clippings to dump many times while cutting grass.. But more importantly, how are you going to keep the clippings from getting moldy? You would have to spread them out to dry. I grew up on a farm and raked hay as a teenager (I believe it was alfalfa and lespedeza and clover). The hay was cut and left to DRY for several days then it was raked and bailed and put into a barn to be kept dry. Hay harvesting had to be done when we knew there would be a stretch of dry weather. If you leave the clippings on the lawn, they will supply nutrients to the grass, reducing the need for fertilizer. If you need hay for the horses, maybe you should consider a hay field, dedicated to hay. Maybe a local farmer would come and harvest it for you. A hay field could perhaps be planted this spring.

Do you need to plant grass in the horses' pasture or does it have sufficient coverage?


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

I googled "mowed grass and horses" and got back articles with a big NO on feeding horses cut grass. It's bad for the horses. Here's one:
https://horseracingsense.com/why-cant-horses-eat-cut-grass-grass/

If hay production doesn't make sense, you could also do two pastures, fenced off from each other. Maybe you could do warm season grass in one pasture, cool season grass in the other. You could rotate the horses pasture to pasture as grazing opportunities present themselves. You will need to have water for them at each field. Also while the grasses are getting established, the horses need to be off the field until the plants are mature enough to be grazed, so it would be good to have two areas.


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