# Is it just thatch?



## Papa-smurf (Jun 14, 2019)

Hello All, I'm trying to figure out what is wrong with my lawn. It's Kentucky bluegrass that was sodded late 2016 so this is the start of it's third summer. Overall it doesn't look too bad but there is a solid amount of it, if it most of it, that looks like what is in the photos. I'm not sure if it is just too much thatch (I only push mow with mulch blades) or if it is something more drastic. Any insight would be appreciated!


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## Papa-smurf (Jun 14, 2019)

I should have noted that my Rachio controller was not set correctly so it hadn't gone off once this year until this week. The yard is a lot more green now that it has been watered a couple times over the last week.


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

Not thatchbut dead grass. Looks like your lawn is unthealthy. Id spread compost and drop some balanced fert down as well as getting a soil test.

Im in michgian and havent watered once this year.


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## Tsmith (Aug 11, 2017)

Just to be clear clippings are not thatch

How high is the grass when you're cutting, how much are you taking off, and is your mower leaving clumps after you cut?

Tough to be certain but that does look like clumps of dead grass which can happen when trying to take too much off and mulch cutting. If it is clumps of dead grass you might want to break them up so they can be mulched which you should be able to do with a leaf rake.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

How much fertilizer last year and this year. Your neighbor lawn looks great, what is he doing differently than you?


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## Wlodyd (Aug 27, 2018)

I'd agree it looks like you need to power rake to remove that debris layer... What's your HOC? It looks pretty short.... You recently start trying to go from tall to short?


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

My take... Pre-zombie stage.

Raise your height of cut. Like, yesterday. Get your blade razor-sharp.

Like you noted... water! Deeply. Put down a good inch of water. INFREQUENTLY.

Wait a week or more depending on weather before watering again. Keep top inch of soil dry. Below that should be damp like a well wrung-out towel (not even moist) to prevent disease and weeds.

Fertilize like others have noted. Light (LIGHT! Very.) application of fast-acting urea (only) every two weeks until 80° F temps are a regular "thing." Last urea app should immediately be followed by regular schedule of organic fertilizer like Milorganite or your local biosolid substitute.

You should already have prodiamine in there because the weeds ARE coming for full-on zombie lawn. Blanket Weed-B-Gon with CCO when (not "if") you start seeing weeds.

Soil conditioner (kelp, humic acid, molasses, baby shampoo - buy yucca while getting your kelp and humic to replace the shampoo) will help decay debris if you don't want to rake. Debris will melt away on its own through worm and microbial action.

This stuff should start to fill in quite nicely while night temps are below ~70° and day temps are below 80°. Nothing much higher than that.

Got bugs? Kill them with Talstar. Grubs? Milky Spore for long-term prevention. GrubEx for help with fall herd.

I think somebody else mentioned soil test. You can't get to "next level" without soil test but can still have a great lawn. Get test BEFORE adding fertilizer or other amendments. You need a six-week clean sample so you can make other adjustments based on lab analysis.

Murph


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

BXMurphy said:


> My take... Pre-zombie stage.
> 
> Raise your height of cut - as high as your mower will go. Like, yesterday. Get your blade razor-sharp.
> 
> ...


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## Papa-smurf (Jun 14, 2019)

Thanks for the responses! Wow, where to start.

Clippings are not thatch, noted. &#129318;‍♂

My HOC is 2.5". The first now of the season it was long, thinking I didn't go short enough before winter. I stepped it down of a few mowings from 4" to 2.5". Would you suggest higher than 2.5"?

I'm convinced it's mainly clippings now. I do t have the time or calluses to rake a .25 acre. Is it okay to power rake this time of year?

I've been applying milogranite spring and fall.

Based on the response I'm thinking I'll take a soil sample, power rake if that's okay to do now and start applying fert, composite, etc. based on all the other info here.

Regarding my neighbors...well they mow once every 2 weeks and get big clumps that they sometimes rake or sometimes end up letting it stay...and they have a LOT of crab grass. I think that was a very favorable photo for their yard lol they also use TrueGreen...


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

How much Milo per area?


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Papa-smurf said:


> Based on the response I'm thinking I'll take a soil sample, power rake if that's okay to do now and start applying fert, composite, etc. based on all the other info here.


Seriously... I wouldn't even bother with the power rake. 
For sure, I would skip the compost. What I WOULD do is take a season to nail down the basics and making sure you are comfortable with the routine.

If you are unable to keep up... the lawn will turn zombie... and your time, effort, and money is for naught.

Here is your start: Sharpen your mower blades.

Next, commit to mowing such that you never cut off more than 1/3 of the blade of grass.

Second, commit to watering deeply and infrequently. I question the "Rule of Thumb" of one inch per week but it is a good first step to get into the rhythm. Put out a tuna can to measure any rainfall and irrigation because it all counts.

Next, study and learn the X product per square foot calculations and apply that calculation to nitrogen fertilizer.

Finally, (or firstly if you think you can make the commitment), get that soil test.

You will need: A new lawn mower blade (or sharpen the one you have). A tuna can. A log book to remember what you did and when - like how much water your lawn got and how much nitrogen you put down. A time block for mowing and watering. Finally, Google... to figure out nitrogen per square foot.

Watch, you spent money for new sod and it zombied. What makes you think you can avoid that fate again without solid basics? You already know you screwed up the basics because... well... look what you got! 

You can do this, man! It ain't rocket surgery. Just a commitment to solid maintenance to get you going and then taking it to the next level with a soil test and calculations.

In any case, basics will get you such a great lawn with just basic stuff that you will amaze even yourself. Your neighbors? Fahgetabouttit!

You can do this. I KNOW you can. Mower blade, tuna can, log book, time and commitment. Easy-peasy, lemon-squeezy!

Murph


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## Papa-smurf (Jun 14, 2019)

BXMurphy said:


> Papa-smurf said:
> 
> 
> > Based on the response I'm thinking I'll take a soil sample, power rake if that's okay to do now and start applying fert, composite, etc. based on all the other info here.
> ...


Thank you very much for the info! I'm going to take your basics suggestion and run with it for a bit and dive deep come fall with soil sample and go from there. Strict mow schedule - check. Sharp blades - bought a second set today and plan on swapping in and out so I can sharpen one set while using the other. Watering - I can dial in the Rachio to a once a week application however my front zone is always dry and struggling. It has zero shade and gets sun ALL day. My thought is maybe run that one twice a week..thoughts?

Regarding fert, I'd prefer minimizing any negative environmental impact. I was u see the impression. milogranite is a decent choice. Assuming this is correct, should I be applying more often than just spring/fall?

Thanks again for the info! Very refreshing to be reminded how many awesome people there are online willing to help another out!


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Yeah... I reckon this place is just about the best place on the Internet for solid people with honest advice. I'm only on year two with getting serious about my lawn and have come a long way because of the folks here.

Milorganite? You really can't screw that stuff up. Many here call it "Vitamin M." Low-dose slow-release nitrogen from sewage sludge from Milwaukee. Minnesota might have a comparable product for even less. Check with a big city water department.

Vitamin M also gives you iron (so key) and other trace elements. Just follow the instructions on the bag and don't sweat it. Overlaps? No biggie! Skips? No sweat. Double dose? Some here "throw 'er down!" (I wouldn't recommend that if for no other reason than the unnecessary cost and effort.)

Vitamin M is around 85% organic matter. You may not even need that soggy, weed seed-ridden compost that is a bugger to spread around.

Put it down on the major holiday weekends. Memorial Day, Independence Day, Fouth of July, and Labor Day. Calibrate your spreader so you run out of Vitamin M with one pass over your lawn. Start with a low setting and work the setting higher (take notes, right?) until you hit that sweet spot.

By the way, this exercise will come in handy in calibrating your battery operated Chapin backpack sprayer if you decide you can make the commitment to maintaining your lawn and even take it to that next level.

One step at a time for now, right? Let's start you on the right foot in protecting your investment in new sod.

Water? I'm questioning the inch per week rule because I've never sliced into my lawn like you would a steak to check for "doneness." That's on my to-do list. But for you right now, commit to the one inch per week and commit to watching how much water goes down.

For me, at my level, I'm going to shove a spade into my lawn and open up a seam going down 5-6 inches. This ought not hurt the lawn. I just want a peek into the soil like looking into a steak.

What I want to see is a dry ~1 inch top and a moist lower level. I think many folks (myself included) are guilty of loving our lawns to DEATH with too much water. Like overwatering a houseplant.

I want the dry top layer to act as mulch. A soil mulch, if you will. Grass roots should go down 4-5-6 inches. There are not any roots of consequence in that top 1 inch.

What IS there is thatch and debris. Fungus and virus. New weed seeds. Bugs. Rot. Woody parts of grass that should not be wet.

I want to maintain moist - not damp and certainly not wet - conditions down around the roots. I want that top 1 inch to be arid like a desert where nothing of consequence grows to bother my grass. I want a soil mulch around my grass that is not compact and can be easily manipulated with my finger if I chose to reach down below the grass canopy and move my finger around.

The only way I can do this is to open a seam in the soil and check for doneness. I will watch the temperatures and monitor any rain and irrigation. I'll check my tuna cans and get a sense for when it's time to water. The motto is, "Watch the grass, don't watch the watch."

All my best,
Murph


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Oh, by the way... because I forgot... Mow high, young man, MOW HIGH!

As high as your mower will go. Shoot for 2.5-3.0" for Kentucky bluegrass (KBG).

Don't be like, "But I want a putting green!..." You see those homeowners all over town and they are mowing low... a field of weeds.

NO! You want a great lawn. A golf course or sports field is a special grass species with intense (read: "paid") maintenance.

Many here do mow low. They pay the cost to do that in time, effort, and chemicals/equipment. They are wizards in the best sense of the word. (A "wizard" on this board is an inside joke/insult. You will learn if you make the commitment.)

Mow high.

B

Edit: Yeah I guess I did mention the high mowing part after re-reading the thread. Aw, well... can't be reminded too often, right?


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## Papa-smurf (Jun 14, 2019)

Alright, took your advice. Sharpened blades. Threw down roughly 1 lb/1k sqft N via Milorganite about a week ago. Last cut was at 3" and I'm going 3.5" only for a while.

Now, what is this stuff that has suddenly invaded everywhere? Appears to be clover of oxalis. Not sure what to do right now. Whether it be now or something later this year...any help is appreciated!


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Papa-smurf said:


> Alright, took your advice. Sharpened blades. Threw down roughly 1 lb/1k sqft N via Milorganite about a week ago. Last cut was at 3" and I'm going 3.5" only for a while.
> 
> Now, what is this stuff that has suddenly invaded everywhere? Appears to be clover of oxalis. Not sure what to do right now. Whether it be now or something later this year...any help is appreciated!


Right... Something is finally growing in your dirt that you would like to call a "lawn." It stirs!

Watch... It isn't the Milorganite because it requires microbial action to break that stuff down to release the nitrogen. Nitrogen is good in the proper dosage because it is primo grass food. The micro-herd takes 3-4 weeks to do its thang.

And... we KNOW sharp blades didn't cause weeds (or whatever), right? 

*Now, you ARE watering, right? I mean... watering your zombie grass is the #1 thing you MUST do to save your lawn. Tell me you are watering!* 

Which means... you are getting weeds. Predictably. You let your grass go zombie and the weeds are taking over. Don't do that.

Beats me what the crap is but you are now going to filter and sort out the bad from the good with your next step...

...Weed-B-Gon with CCO (clover, chickweed, and oxalis). Read and follow the directions carefully. The directions give you a range of product amount to put down. I would err on the side of caution and go with the lower end of the range.

You will read that you can come back in with a second application. See how your weeds (oh... and grass, by the way) responds and decide if you want to come in with that second app.

I would stick with the 3.5" mowing height going into summer. It will look really nice when (not "if") you edge your lawn.

You and your lawn will be just fine.

Murph

P.S. - Consider soil conditioner: Kelp, humic acid, and yucca (or baby shampoo in a pinch). It is fun for the entire family, good for your lawn, and keeps you properly focused on maintaining a world-class stand of grass.


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## Lpv777 (Jun 16, 2019)

Looks like wood sorrel. If you didnt spray any chemicals you can forage it. Delicious, taste like lemons. High in vitamin c


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## Lpv777 (Jun 16, 2019)

P.s just verify it close up


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## LawnNoobNWI (Jun 29, 2019)

I had a similar looking lawn this spring. Years of cutting low and not bagging, no cares.
I used a dethach machine, after cutting low, from Amazon ($100). I used it in both directions and clean up all the dead grass. Then I fertilized heavy and threw down some seed randomly. Had a lot of rain and the lawn went to looking 200% better. This was mid spring..


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