# 2018 Pre-M Countdown!



## chrismar (May 25, 2017)

Where are you and have you applied your Pre-M yet? Is the forsythia blooming in your neighborhood? Are you soil temps around 50-55° for 3+ days?


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## chrismar (May 25, 2017)

No forsythia and no pre-m for me yet in central NJ. gddtracker.net is reporting now is a good time, but I'm holding out until the snow melts and forsythia blooms.

Rutgers posted an interesting blog a few days ago about this quandary. They're in the "hold your horses" mode too.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

CNJ (08816), pre-m is going down as soon as the snow melts. I am seeing forsythia shrub's start to bud around me.


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## jimmy (Jul 25, 2017)

I've got a ways to go yet in SE Wisconsin (just north of Milwaukee). Last year I applied pre-emergent mid to late April.


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## MarkAguglia (Jul 13, 2017)

Buffalo, NY.........nope. Maybe by June at this rate. :roll:


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Today if I still have sunlight, otherwise tomorrow.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

I'm totally not concerned about this.

According to the GDD tracker for Crabgrass Pre, I'm at 215 GDD, and therefore almost at the green "target" range (220).

But CT is lagging behind NJ, RI, LI, and Eastern MA this year. The grass is not totally green yet, the Forsythia haven't bloomed yet, there's still some snow around, and 4-5 inch soil temps are mostly in the 30s and 40s. Also, I haven't bought my pre-M yet. Actually, that doesn't matter because I'm planning to use Tenacity for the first round anyway.

@GrassDaddy posted a great video recently listing various soil temps at which things happen (like CG germination starting at 50F). I'm planning to re-watch it and jot them all down.

I do have a couple of questions for you guys, though...

How deep should we be measuring soil temps when it comes to CG germination potential?

As far as the design of the GDD tracker, what is the deal with the "Over" category when it comes to pre-M? My gut feeling says as long as it's watered in before CG germination actually starts, there's no issue. And with Dimension, you can actually get away with applying and watering in as the germination process is occurring. But what about Prodiamine? Does it have to be applied before you get into the "Over" level? Then there's "Done", which I've always assumed means you're too late.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Not here yet in northwest IL. They are forecasting 4-9" of snow tomorrow night. If I had to guess I am still 2 weeks away.


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

@green about 2 inches. Crabgrass germinates on the top layer so it's not like soil sampling.

As for over/under there are different temps when crabgrass germinates. Just like regular grass the germination % increases as it warms. So even if you are late you prevent some but the later you are the higher % already germinated.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

GrassDaddy said:


> @green about 2 inches. Crabgrass germinates on the top layer so it's not like soil sampling.
> 
> As for over/under there are different temps when crabgrass germinates. Just like regular grass the germination % increases as it warms. So even if you are late you prevent some but the later you are the higher % already germinated.


Thanks. That makes sense. I'm hoping to start in about a week or two.


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## zinger565 (Nov 28, 2017)

Pete1313 said:


> Not here yet in northwest IL. They are forecasting 4-9" of snow tomorrow night. If I had to guess I am still 2 weeks away.


Same boat here, East Central Iowa.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

zinger565 said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> > Not here yet in northwest IL. They are forecasting 4-9" of snow tomorrow night. If I had to guess I am still 2 weeks away.
> ...


Ridiculous.. Someone needs to tell mother nature to get her act together!


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Central IA here.

Forsythia is not blooming and still way out on GDD tracker. Thinking pre-em won't be down until after Easter.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Lots of snow on the ground, no forsythia buds, and the tracker has me at least a week away.

Edited to add location as Western Pennsylvania.


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## stotea (Jul 31, 2017)

Not until May in MN, just like any other year. :-/


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

MarkAguglia said:


> Buffalo, NY.........nope. Maybe by June at this rate. :roll:


Same here.


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## macleod52 (Feb 23, 2018)

I applied mine the day before St. Patty's day. I was two days early per the GDD tracker but I had a severe case of crabgrass in my back yard. I wanted to get it down early enough and the soil temps were reaching 50 degrees on warm days. I also intend to apply a second application late April/early May to ensure I get all season coverage. GDD is saying optimal time for me will be around the 28th so I'm only a little more than a week early. I'm not going to worry about it.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Forsythia showing some yellow buds here in New Brunswick, temperatures increasing every day for the next 7 days. Gonna try and get Tenacity down on Sunday if the ground isn't too soft.


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## gregonfire (Sep 18, 2017)

Like the other NJ bros, I'm waiting for the snow to melt then it's going down! SNJ here.


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## Killsocket (Mar 16, 2018)

stotea said:


> Not until May in MN, just like any other year. :-/


MN here too. First time putting down pre-M. 
Surely it isn't May for real... :shock:


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)




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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Actually, doesn't look like I'll be spraying Sunday.


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## stotea (Jul 31, 2017)

Killsocket said:


> stotea said:
> 
> 
> > Not until May in MN, just like any other year. :-/
> ...


Well, depends where in MN and what kind of spring we're having. South of the metro could easily do late or even mid April. But even in the Twin Cities, it's not uncommon for us to see snowflakes during the first week of May. Like everything with lawncare, "it depends."


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

Does anybody worry about rain washing away your fertilizer and pre emergent? I am holding off because we are expecting 3.5 inches in the next week. Tenacity is too expensive to have it washed away.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Yes I do.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

Yesterday afternoon I saw some Forsythias trying to bloom here in St. Louis. It will just be a couple of days.
We have gone from Severe and Extreme Drought to the eighth wettest March on record. We had about eight inches of rain.
The grass is starting to green up and actually has some pretty nice looking color. Time to sharpen the mower blades.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

Same here in Illinois! The ryegrass is going crazy!


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

Turfguy93 said:


> Same here in Illinois! The ryegrass is going crazy!


I'm seeing some insane growth from my PRG over the past few days here in Central IL

What are you thinking for Pre-M date?


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## chrismar (May 25, 2017)

Forsythia is starting to pop here in 08807. Gonna try getting my prodiamine down this afternoon as long as the wind cooperates.

Expecting snow (sigh) and rain this week, which should cover the watering in too.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

b0nk3rs said:


> Turfguy93 said:
> 
> 
> > Same here in Illinois! The ryegrass is going crazy!
> ...


I'm shooting for the first of next week.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

Raining Ice Water, Snowing and Sleeting here today. Two inches of non sticking expected here and four inches a few miles north. :roll:


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## WithBBQSauce (Apr 1, 2018)

Forsythia bloomed at my in laws' house today. And of course it is supposed to snow tomorrow. Planning on applying pre-m next weekend. Assuming there is no snow on the ground!


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## chrismar (May 25, 2017)

I did it! Wind cooperated and I was able to get 7 backpack loads (28 gals) sprayed over the lawn and beds (and some of the patio).


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

I started doing pre-M today, but probably won't be doing more for several weeks.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

No forsythia on Massachusetts/New Hampshire border yet. Lawn is growing. May practice backpack calibration this weekend.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

Forsythia bloomed here finally. If only it would stop snowing. (Big sleet , ice slush event predicted for tomorrow :evil: :roll: )


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## Togo (Jun 7, 2017)

Forsythia by me just bloomed this week. All my snow is now gone so I think it's time for some Prodiamine.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

Nope.


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## beastcivic (Mar 26, 2018)

Down in Charlotte, NC, I put my prodiamine granular down mid February. We had an early warm up and soil temps were rising. Then it cooled off for 3-4 weeks and I thought I had put it down way too early. However, I still had some crabgrass poking through a week ago when I went to mow the grass. I sprayed dithiopyr last weekend to try and kill off any young crabgrass I didn't see, and pulled the crabgrass I saw up by hand.

I'm managing my in-laws yard too, same application schedule and they only live a couple miles away. But they've got way more crabgrass than I did. I'll be pulling as many of them as I can, but half of the back yard might be a loss for this growing season, it's pretty much 50% well established crabgrass.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

What rate was your prodiamine applied at?


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## beastcivic (Mar 26, 2018)

Just shy of 7lbs per 1,000 sq ft (0.37% Prodiamine).


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## GoPre (Oct 28, 2017)

Looking to finally get mine down this weekend. Supposed to be amazing temps and rain forecast for Sunday.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Finally put Tenacity today. Mowed on Saturday too.

Just to check - how much water per 1,000 sq ft do you guys use to spray? I have 13,500 sq ft of lawn. I filled the chapin 20V to 4 gals of water. Then I added 4 ounces liquid humic (it's all I had left), 3 ounces NIS, and 3.75 teaspoons of Tenacity. I used the 2 oz. per acre rate (.31 acres so .62 oz)

Did I do it right? First time using chapin or doing any blanket liquid app


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

most products recommend 1 gallon of water per 1ksqft.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

@g-man uh oh.... think I'm in trouble? It's supposed to snow/ rain a little tonight hopefully that provides some more water.

I should have asked a few more questions before I started 😔


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The amount of water mixed in is to ensure the correct concentration (amount of ai within each droplet of water from the nozzle). Tenacity is one that I'm very careful of application and it takes 2-3 weeks to see the effect. One good thing is that your target was the 2oz rate. FYI, The label calls for 30 gallons of water/acre for post emergent.

Some key questions, were you able to evenly apply the 4 gallons to the 13.5k? Meaning, no overlap, did not run out, no product left in the tank?

Also, next time, dont add humic. I dont know how it reacts with tenacity.

Here is the label: https://www.bartlett.com/productlabels/pdfs/New%20Jersey/Product%20Labels/TENACITY%20.pdf


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Well, hopefully my first tenacity app doesn't turn into a failed experiment. I'll have to wait and see, will keep you updated.

I was able to spray the entire yard with the tank contents and was left with probably 10% or a half gallon. I used the remaining to cover areas that are heavily infested with poa on a second pass for a presumable 4 oz / acre rate.

I had a pretty brisk walk, and was using an audible countdown timer app that spoke out each second counting down from 8 mins. I tested the spray with water and got .4 gallons per minute, so figured it would take me a little more than 8 minutes to empty the 4 gallon tank. So I started the countdown put my phone in my chest pocket and off I went humping around the yard!

I will certainly increase the water next time to triple so I can have the 1 gal / 1000 sq ft of application. Will have to slow down a bit, probably even reduce concentration by 50% and make 2 full trips around the yard.

Thank you for all the help G-man.... I'm hoping this learning experience doesn't cost me my yard for the next 2 seasons.


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## desirous (Dec 15, 2017)

You must walk a lot faster than me if you were able to cover 13.5k with 4 gal. At my pace, the Chapin 20V covers 3k. I use 2 tank fills to do my 6k lawn.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The following is just a calculated guess: I think that you should be ok. The drop size/dispersion had to be low, so most grass leaves did not get the ai. The ones that did get some, it would have been at a higher concentration than 2oz. I dont think you will loose your yard, but some of of grass could turn white.

Another future variable is the nozzle type. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=33


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

I am getting impatient. No forsythias yet. Any harm in dropping prodiamine a week or so early?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Not really, only that it break down a week or so early.

Make sure the ground is not frozen.


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## GoPre (Oct 28, 2017)

Can PreM and PGR go down on the same day?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would not mix them. Check the label for each product.


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## GoPre (Oct 28, 2017)

Well I got some granular PreM down yesterday. We are getting a lot of rain today, should I be concerned of any washout? Thankfully I don't have any slopes or substantial low spots to worry about.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

beastcivic said:


> Just shy of 7lbs per 1,000 sq ft (0.37% Prodiamine).


That's like, what...the 9 or 10-month rate?
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1907&hilit=prodiamine


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Forsythia buds still haven't really popped yet much around here. Per the gddtracker April 14th was listed as the optimum date.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

pennstater2005 said:


> Forsythia buds still haven't really popped yet much around here. Per the gddtracker April 14th was listed as the optimum date.


Gdd does not have an optimum date, it is a range. Try to not hit the first day it shows optimum. Just ensure you are not in the late range and do use the forsythias.


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

Forsythia blooms here in RI so I put down prodiamine at 8 month rate


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

g-man said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> > Forsythia buds still haven't really popped yet much around here. Per the gddtracker April 14th was listed as the optimum date.
> ...


The date right smack in the middle of the optimum range.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

I have been seeing forsythias for about two weeks but I saw a hedge of them this afternoon in full bloom here in St. Louis
(Transition zone , 6a/b, 38 degrees north)


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## beastcivic (Mar 26, 2018)

Green said:


> beastcivic said:
> 
> 
> > Just shy of 7lbs per 1,000 sq ft (0.37% Prodiamine).
> ...


Something like that. I think the max rate was 9lbs which is supposed to last 9 months or so (assuming nothing disturbed the soil).


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## desirous (Dec 15, 2017)

The forsythia in my yard is not blooming yet but I do see blooms in the neighborhood. I'll spray prodiamine this weekend.


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## Crystalguy (Nov 27, 2017)

According to GDD TRACKER it looks like the temps should be good by the end of this month, if the snow is all gone. I have it ready and waiting along with some Milo.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Finally got my Tenacity done. That will hold me for a few weeks as far as Pre-M. GDD tracker indicates 533, and Forsythia appear to be in peak bloom today. Rain is coming tomorrow night.


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