# monostand tttf



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

Anyone ever do a monostand with TTTF? I am looking at picking my seed for my reno this fall, it will be irrigated, in full sun, not really much traffic on it. It is a strip of land going along my driveway its about 9000sf (25'X360'). 
Even tho it will be irrigated, being in full sun I want the drought tolerance of tttf. My backyard is all kbg and I need to put a lot of water down to keep it nice in the summer months especially when its a dry year. I was going to do a tttf kbg mix but I kinda want to see how a all tttf turf would look. I really want the look of a monostand. 
My top tttf cultivar I am thinking if using is 4th millennium.


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## thin_concrete (Sep 11, 2020)

Following - I'm slightly north of you and have been doing the "KBG v. TTTF" dance for a while now. Because of how wonky the weather has been over the last several years and where we're trending, I'm starting to lean more towards TTTF for the reasons you enumerated.


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## Kiza (Oct 30, 2019)

At 9k sqft, I would grow various TTTFs in small plots and see which ones you like best. Each lawn has it's own unique environment and it's hard to tell which cultivar is best until you actually see with your own eyes. Before I started, I thought 4th millennium was #1. Now one of my least favorite TTTF. Summer and Regenerate being #1 and #2.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

In addition to 4th M, look into Rhizing Moon and Regenerate.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Since TTTF does not spread via rhizome like KBG, it is generally not recommended to do a monostand. It does not bounce back like KBG does from something like a fungus outbreak.

The rhizomatous TTTF's are a nice option, but for me I would not do a mono, but that's just me. In my opinion a blend of multiple TTTF cultivars will allow the seed to grow in multiple different spots in a location... usually one in the blend prefers full sun, one prefers part shade, etc. Allows you to seed you entire property and have the ideal cultivar growing in each location.


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## Turftastic (Apr 23, 2021)

Following as well. I am looking at this blend from stover seed as my fall reno seed. 
https://shop.stoverseed.com/collect...-turf-type-tall-fescue-blend-platinum-quality

And as others mentioned maybe some kbg for repair ability


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

My inspiration for doing a mono is consistently. In my backyard it's all kbg there are 8 cultivars in the mix I got. While it does look good the growth rate is inconsistent, also the color while all are dark I can see slight differences. 
I have other areas that have tttf and kbg they also are nice but growth rate leaf texture are inconsistent. I was considering kbg mono but being all my trees are gone from a tornado last year it gets blasted from morning until sunset with sun. In my backyard it gets full sun until about 7pm so a little less than my front gets and I have to water a lot to keep it green in the hot summer if we get no rain.


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## ScottieBones (Apr 2, 2020)

Turftastic said:


> Following as well. I am looking at this blend from stover seed as my fall reno seed.
> https://shop.stoverseed.com/collect...-turf-type-tall-fescue-blend-platinum-quality
> 
> And as others mentioned maybe some kbg for repair ability


That looks like a very good blend


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## zackroof (Oct 27, 2019)

4th millennium is awesome. It spreads fairly decently if not quite like KBG. I did about 3k with 4th as a mono and it's crankin now, looking beautiful, and recovered from some pretty bad snow mold damage (bare spot recovery). Jury is out on its drought/heat tolerance. Supposed to be good, we will see.


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## JP900++ (Aug 24, 2018)

I agree 4th Millennium is fantastic.


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

I did my 5k reno with a mix of 4th mellinium and Titanium 2LS with some mazama. They are fairly well balanced in terms of color. KBG vertical growth is less though.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Kiza said:


> At 9k sqft, I would grow various TTTFs in small plots and see which ones you like best. Each lawn has it's own unique environment and it's hard to tell which cultivar is best until you actually see with your own eyes. Before I started, I thought 4th millennium was #1. Now one of my least favorite TTTF. Summer and Regenerate being #1 and #2.


Summer is a really thick plush TTTF from my experience with fine blades


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

Kiza said:


> At 9k sqft, I would grow various TTTFs in small plots and see which ones you like best. Each lawn has it's own unique environment and it's hard to tell which cultivar is best until you actually see with your own eyes. Before I started, I thought 4th millennium was #1. Now one of my least favorite TTTF. Summer and Regenerate being #1 and #2.


I have used 4th and Regenerate both are in my mix of the reno I did last year and previous years. But they are part of a mix with others plus kbg so it's hard to tell what's what. I have grown 4th in pots and it looked fantastic. What didn't you like about it? I do like the stats of summer tho.


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## Kiza (Oct 30, 2019)

4th millennium's color was good, but didn't handle drought stress as well as I thought. Once I intentionally stopped watering, 4th was the first to show blades having stress. I do like the idea of a monostand TTTF. There's pros and cons to it, but I think it makes things much cleaner. With a mix of plants, I would find myself second guessing on trying to find out where the problem is.

M32075, I noticed that too. Summer grows in plush with relatively thinner blades. I'm not sure if it's the density that's causing the blades to be thin or if it's the actual DNA that makes them thin. It never occurred to me to grow Summer with a lot of space in-between and compare.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

I have some 4th left over I might get some summer and do 2 test plots to compare


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

The drought tolerance on my 4th millenium section has been disappointing. On the other hand, my rhizing moon section is showing exceptional drought tolerance.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

learningeveryday said:


> The drought tolerance on my 4th millenium section has been disappointing. On the other hand, my rhizing moon section is showing exceptional drought tolerance.


Good to know how so they compare in color and leaf texture


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

JDgreen18 said:


> I have some 4th left over I might get some summer and do 2 test plots to compare


I'm interested in seeing this if you're thinking of doing it


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

JDgreen18 said:


> learningeveryday said:
> 
> 
> > The drought tolerance on my 4th millenium section has been disappointing. On the other hand, my rhizing moon section is showing exceptional drought tolerance.
> ...


What's your color difference between the 2? I've also been looking at other cultivars that would succeed well in the Northeast with great color. Thor and foxhound to looked to be promising


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@JDgreen18

Summer is pretty darn nice, but I've only used it mixed so I'm not sure what it really looks like on its own.

Are you set on one single variety (true monostand), or open to a blend?

People in Virginia to Georgia of course often use TTTF as a single species. Some do up here for a high-end, consistent look to the lawn, too. But Brown Patch becomes a real potential issue, and worse in a monostand with one variety generally. You really need to be using biofungicides, like Serenade, at least once per month from now through end of Summer for prevention in this situation...and maybe an occasional synthetic fungicide if things start to get out of hand. Otherwise brown patch might damage the lawn some Summer, requiring an overseed after.

Other than disease or Summer drought damage, it's a myth that TTTF requires overseeding every year. It will fill in small holes the size of a golf ball no problem in most cases, with time. But it has fewer rhizomes than KBG and they are much shorter, do don't expect the same type of repair of larger spots as with KBG.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

Green said:


> @JDgreen18
> 
> Summer is pretty darn nice, but I've only used it mixed so I'm not sure what it really looks like on its own.
> 
> ...


Ya know I was thinking of this very thing...I wanted a mono for the consistency, growth habit, look and tttf is a little less thirsty than kbg, but what I possibly gain there I lose with fungicide applications. I might do a mix maybe pay close attention to growth habit and leaf texture.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

This is my summer TTTF section looked fabulous in the fall really struggling now


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Just found a picture from the fall


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

M32075 said:


> This is my summer TTTF section looked fabulous in the fall really struggling now


I'm wondering if it's too thick causing issues with air circulation and constant moisture? I went heavy with snapback which is summer and nonet tttf mix last fall. I have a lot of die off from winter. Had to dethatch twice this spring which I never do because of opening the canopy and opportunity for weeds.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> M32075 said:
> 
> 
> > This is my summer TTTF section looked fabulous in the fall really struggling now
> ...


I'm thinking the same thing it's mostly in a area shaded by the house doesn't get sun to late in the day. I was thinking maybe from feature I was spraying added to the issue. I will say very early spring snow mold was horrible but did bounce back only in the last few weeks it's going downhill.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

M32075 said:


> Scagfreedom48z+ said:
> 
> 
> > M32075 said:
> ...


It seems like we were in the same boat regarding the winter aftermath this year. I tried looking for ntep results for summer tttf and see how they do in the northeast and couldn't really find anything. I'm wondering if it doesn't do well in the northeast?


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## thin_concrete (Sep 11, 2020)

I'm in MA too and got nailed by snow mold. I'm still trying to get a couple of spots back to where they were last fall.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@JDgreen18, I've only done mixes so far (currently working on my first ever monostand renovation, but not by choice).

You don't have to stick to TTTF/KBG mixes for good disease tolerance, though. If you pick the right selection of TTTF cultivars and pick 5 or more that are fairly compatible in appearance, you can probably solve most of the disease issue with an all TTTF stand. And it'll arguably look better than a mix in many cases. If it were me picking cultivars for a TTTF blend, brown patch would be consideration number one, leaf texture number two, rhizomes number three, and then maybe stuff like drought tolerance, color, etc., after those.

I think (not totally sure about this) all the varieties that have higher spreading potential also have better drought tolerance/recovery due to the increased amount of rhizomes.

But even so, I still believe preventative biofungicides are important on all lawns, even mixes, and I do it about once a month if I can.

Anything from Mountain View Seed is excellent. I also like Rowdy, NoNet blend, Summer, and a few others but won't bother listing them again here since you can't get them anymore. If you spend some time on NTEP and then read and ask opinions about varieties you've narrowed it down to, you should do pretty well. Some of the ones in your mixes might be good contenders; I don't remember their names.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> It seems like we were in the same boat regarding the winter aftermath this year. I tried looking for ntep results for summer tttf and see how they do in the northeast and couldn't really find anything. I'm wondering if it doesn't do well in the northeast?


TTTF is better in the Northeast than the Southeast due to shorter Summers here, but arguably better out West where there's less humidity (if you can get water for it).

First year grass usually struggles in all seasons. This was a bad Winter because the snow was heavy when it came, but there was also a lot of snowless periods that were pretty cold that desiccated the heck out everything. It's common if you seeded too heavily as a possibility and then have more disease and general die-off.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

M32075 said:


> This is my summer TTTF section looked fabulous in the fall really struggling now


I'll bet that either your Potassium or Calcium levels are low. Might want to check those.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

JDgreen18 said:


> I have some 4th left over I might get some summer and do 2 test plots to compare


Yeah. Seed them anytime. I will be seeding my Reno and stuff early this Summer. Takes lots of water, but you can do it easily for the smaller test areas.

4th Milen looks really good on paper. If you can also get 3rd and 2nd Milen, they should all be compatible. Maybe throw in Summer, Rowdy, and a few others if they look similar or pick some from your previous mixes. Regenerate is supposed to be excellent, too.

Someone had a blend of 4th M and something else in a journal. Traverse 2 or something...


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Chris LI

What's the monostand at work that you really like? Spyder LS? (They are introducing Spyder 2 LS soon.)


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

Green said:


> JDgreen18 said:
> 
> 
> > I have some 4th left over I might get some summer and do 2 test plots to compare
> ...


I have s blend of 4th, Regenerate LS2 bit also have mazama.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

@Green to be honest I'm still up in the air on grass type let alone cultivars...I am still considering all kbg I have e made a short list of both tttf and kbg that I would like.
Kbg cultivars 
Blueberry #in NE region 
Bluebank 
Bewitched 
Everest 
Prosperity Excellent in NE
TTTF
Rizing moon
Hound dog 8
Rebounder
Firecracker 
Traverse 2
Titanium 2


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Green said:


> Scagfreedom48z+ said:
> 
> 
> > It seems like we were in the same boat regarding the winter aftermath this year. I tried looking for ntep results for summer tttf and see how they do in the northeast and couldn't really find anything. I'm wondering if it doesn't do well in the northeast?
> ...


I'm glad I wasn't the only one. It was definitely a different spring compared to 2020. The lawn was immaculate in 2020 coming out of winter. This spring definitely threw me through a loop but shes looking good now


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

JDgreen18 said:


> @Green to be honest I'm still up in the air on grass type let alone cultivars...I am still considering all kbg I have e made a short list of both tttf and kbg that I would like.
> Kbg cultivars
> Blueberry #in NE region
> Bluebank
> ...


Hopefully this discussion continues. I like your list and I'm also looking at some other cultivars myself. Hound dog 8 also caught my eye but don't see much usage of it on this site with Reno's or oversees projects.


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## zackroof (Oct 27, 2019)

Anybody know the best place to get some rhizome moon?

Also is Summer rhizomatic like 4th and Rhizing Moon?


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

zackroof said:


> Anybody know the best place to get some rhizome moon?
> 
> Also is Summer rhizomatic like 4th and Rhizing Moon?


When I called Hogan seed they told me they have it...


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## zackroof (Oct 27, 2019)

JDgreen18 said:


> zackroof said:
> 
> 
> > Anybody know the best place to get some rhizome moon?
> ...


Thanks - I'll try them for some "rhizome" moon. Autocorrect made a pun... haha


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Green said:


> @Chris LI
> 
> What's the monostand at work that you really like? Spyder LS? (They are introducing Spyder 2 LS soon.)


Yes, Spyder LS. Wow! Thanks! That sounds interesting. I will need to find out what my vendor stocks this year. Last year they had Titanium 2 LS instead of Spyder LS.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@JDgreen18, Firecracker gets wide bladed readily if it has the opportunity, like if left long and grown between sidewalk stones. Otherwise, it's great.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

zackroof said:


> Anybody know the best place to get some rhizome moon?
> 
> Also is Summer rhizomatic like 4th and Rhizing Moon?


Summer is not


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

zackroof said:


> Anybody know the best place to get some rhizome moon?
> 
> Also is Summer rhizomatic like 4th and Rhizing Moon?


Hearne seed has been a good option as well. Purchased 100# from them of RM


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## thin_concrete (Sep 11, 2020)

zackroof said:


> Anybody know the best place to get some rhizome moon?
> 
> Also is Summer rhizomatic like 4th and Rhizing Moon?


I purchased my Rhizing Moon and Titan XL from Hearne Seed out in CA. Shipping was expensive (50lbs of each, so 100lbs total), but I couldn't find it in stock on the east for some reason.


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## Camman595 (Jun 15, 2021)

Turftastic said:


> Following as well. I am looking at this blend from stover seed as my fall reno seed.
> https://shop.stoverseed.com/collect...-turf-type-tall-fescue-blend-platinum-quality
> 
> And as others mentioned maybe some kbg for repair ability


I have a bag of this in my garage waiting for fall so I can seed/overseed. I am looking forward to seeing how it turns out.


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