# First soil test, advice welcome



## hammerhead (May 14, 2019)

Hi all,

Got back the results of my first soil test. This was done in a Swiss lab.

Since the test results are in German, here some comments from my side:
- Humus = Organic matter
- Ton = Clay
- Schluff = Silt
- pH-Wert = pH value
- Verfügbare Nährstoffe = Available nutrients
- Reservenährstoffe = Nutrients in reserve
- Spurenelemente = Trace elements
- Kalium = Potassium

I am posting here the test results. All comments/advice are welcome. I will also create a second post with specific questions.

Thank you all for your precious help!


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## hammerhead (May 14, 2019)

Here my comments and questions regarding the above soil test results.

*General soil composition and pH (Bodenkenngrössen):*
Comments:
The test says my soil is 'weakly organic' and is basically a clay soil. The pH is 7.5 and therefore weakly alkaline. Water has never puddled so far, and it seems absorption of water is quite OK despite the clay.
Questions:

Would you add more organic matter?

Is it worth dropping the pH? If yes, should I use elemental sulphur? I already use AMS and SOP which - if I got it right - can also contribute (on a smale scale) to lowering pH.

The document mentions that the method used for measuring the pH is different (because of Swiss laws) from the common international standard which is the CaCl2-method. They say the Swiss standard usually shows between 0.3 and 0.7 more pH than the CaCl2-method.

*Available nutrients (Verfügbare Nährstofe)*
Questions:

*Phosphorus: * Seems a bit low. I think i can get around this by using organic fertilizer in the late spring/summer months. Is that enough?

*Potassium (Kalium in German): * Seems a bit low. I do have SOP at hand. According to the soil remediation guidelines, i can apply 2lbs/M per month. How much do you think I need in my case per year (per 1000 sqft)?

*Calcium: * Seems quite high. I guess i just let it be. I'm not really sure why it is so high but I think i used a fertilizer in the past which also contained calcium. Also our water is quite hard and therefore has a lot of limestone, which I guess contribute to this as well. Do you think I should lower my Calcium somehow (if possible)? Also, in the 'nutrients in reserve' section you can see that those Calcium levels in the soil are wayyyy over the top. Do you think this is an issue?

*Magnesium: * Seems marginally low. What would you recommend here? It does not seem very available to the plant because I can see from the 'Nutrients in reserve' section that my magnesium levels are too high (in the soil). I think i used a fertilizer in the past which also contained magnesium. Do you think there is an issue with those very high magnesium levels in the soil?

*Nutrients in reserve (Reservenährstoffe)*
Questions: 

What do they mean with nutrients in reserve. Are these nutrients that are in the soil but not available to the plant?

If they are in the soil, why aren't they available? Due to high pH?

*Trace elements (Spurenelemente)*
Questions:

*Bor (B): * Seems in the ideal range. Would you do anything to keep it there?

*Manganese (Mangan) (Mn): * Seems marginally low. Would you do anything?

*Copper (Kupfer) (Cu): * Seems quite high. Would you do anything?

*Iron (Eisen) (Fe): * Seems very high. Probably this is due to my chelated iron (EDDHA) applications. Is this problematic?

*Other comments*

According to the lab, the following test methods were used for nutrients: CO2-P-Ibu (P CO2-Ex); CO2-K-Ibu (K CO2-Ex); CC-Mg-Ibu (CCMg-Ex); H2010-P-Ibu (P H2010-Ex); H2010-K-Ibu (K H2010-Ex); H2010_Ca_M_ICP-Ibu (Mg+Ca H2010-Ex); AAE 10-P-Ibu (P AAE10-Ex); AAE10-K-Ibu (K AAE10-Ex); AAE10_Ca_Mg_ICP-Ibu (Mg+Ca AAE10-Ex).

According to the lab, the following test methods were used for trace-minerals: AAE10_Ca_Mg_ICP-Ibu (Mg+Ca AAE10-Ex).

Do you think this is a good lab test? Do you think anything important is missing?

If anything is not clear language-wise, I'd be happy to translate more. Please let me know

Thanks in advance! 
Cheers!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I read thru this while eating breakfast this am. I still remember some of the swiss german. I think the difference between the available and reserve is the extraction method. The available is using pure water (H20 10-Ex) and the reserve is using ammonium acetate EDTA (AA E10). I would focus on the AA results.

I think for the pH they used water in a 1: 2.5 ratio and I think that should be ok.

I have to go to a work meeting. I do think this is a good lab. I would do P and K on this soil and consider FAS for iron/color.


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

It amazing how much I can figure out even though I don't know a lick of German, LOL! The words for Calcium and Magnesium are the same. Nitrat, Phosphor, Bor and Mangan are obviously Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Boron and Manganese. pH is pH. Thanks for today's German lesson, LOL!

7.5pH isn't really of concern, but consider that the higher the pH, the less iron can be taken up by plants, so even though your iron is high, it will be mostly unavailable hence why @g-man recommended the FAS foliar feed https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&p=3002#p3002. Personally, unless your lawn is yellowing, I wouldn't bother.

A little P and K wouldn't hurt, but your levels aren't terrible. You should have seen my test results! Your organic matter is low. A compost topdressing would be beneficial and would probably supply enough P and K.


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## hammerhead (May 14, 2019)

Hi @g-man . Thanks for the input. And yes, i remember you've told me you were in Switzerland once a month during a period of time (Jura canton if I remember right). 
_[OFF-TOPIC]_
Swiss-German is not an offiicial language but a term to group all German based dialects from Switzerland. Those dialects are radically different from the German spoken in Germany and in theory could be considered a different language. Even between those Swiss-German dialects there are vast differences. I am originally from the German speaking part of the canton of Valais (but living in the french speaking part of Valais, i know it's getting confusing) and if I speak my dialect a lot of Swiss-German people have huge difficulties understanding me. However, since Swiss-German is not an official language, everything written (besides Whatsapp messages) is in official German. Some casual swiss TV stuff is spoken in Swiss-German, however important things such as the news are always in regular German. Also at school only official German is taught. What i actually wanted to say: the soil test results are written in German .
_[/OFF-TOPIC]_
*[ON-TOPIC]*
Regarding the K: As described in my second post, i have SOP at hand. My plan is to start applying bi-monthly 1 lbs/M (2lbs/M per month). If go with that plan until end of August, that would mean around 9lbs/M. Does that sound right? How much do you think would this increase my K?

Regarding the P: Would you explicitly apply a P product or just stick to organic fertilizer in the coming months until Aug?
*[/ON-TOPIC]*

Thanks!


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## hammerhead (May 14, 2019)

Thanks @Deadlawn ! I am not sure if I want to go the compost route, I'm a bit scared of introducing weeds. Also I am not even sure if I could fine such finely screened compost in my area. The stuff I use for my veggie garden has a lot of larger particles that wouldn't be great to work into the lawn.
Regarding FAS: I am using iron already, however chelated in the form of EDDHA. DId not see a huge response last year, might go a bit higher with the rate if it does not throw my soil out of balance. @g-man you recommended FAS as well. Did you intentionally recommend that in spite of knowing i am using iron EDDHA, or did you miss that in my previous post?


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

hammerhead said:


> Thanks @Deadlawn ! I am not sure if I want to go the compost route, I'm a bit scared of introducing weeds. Also I am not even sure if I could fine such finely screened compost in my area. The stuff I use for my veggie garden has a lot of larger particles that wouldn't be great to work into the lawn.


Knowing your compost supplier and their process is important. If it is "cooked" properly as in allowed to finish the decomposition process, the high temps will kill most weed seeds. Cheaper suppliers don't get the proportions right or let the compost finish its process. As the saying goes, you get what you pay for. What I would definitely not do is introduce any mixes that included topsoil as those can be full of weed seeds.

My compost supplier screens to 1/2 inch. Or you could always get one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QKP7HQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DE8JGOQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



hammerhead said:


> Regarding FAS: I am using iron already, however chelated in the form of EDDHA. DId not see a huge response last year, might go a bit higher with the rate if does throw my soil out of balance.


What kind of a response were you looking for? Extra iron isn't really necessary unless you notice chlorosis - yellowing of the blades. Granted that yellowing can be caused by other deficiencies as well. With broad leaf plants, iron chlorosis is easier to ID as you will see the green veins within the yellow leaves. You don't see this with monocots like grasses. Keep in mind also that some grasses are inherently a lighter shade of green and adding extra iron will not change that.

Off topic: Switzerland is definitely a place I would like to visit once the pandemic is behind us. Are language barriers any issue? You write perfect English - better than quite a few people here I know whose first language is English! I visit Quebec yearly and it seems most of the French Canadians know English pretty well. Your mentioning dialect reminds me of this. I know a little French, but am reminded when I visit Quebec that their dialect is different from that in Europe.


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## hammerhead (May 14, 2019)

@Deadlawn thanks. Sifting might definitely something i could look into as my lawn is quite small.
Regarding iron: No there is no chlorosis in my lawn. However since a lot of people are obsessed with there lawns (especially here in TLF) we thrive for a DARK green and looking at the results here in TLF it helps even in lawns that have a 'normal' green. But yes, in general this is not really a priority and one should probably get their soil right before considering that.

_Off topic:_ Switzerland is a nice place and quite diverse (landscape & language-wise) for such a tiny country. Just beware: it is VERY EXPENSIVE. In general I would say that you can get a long well with English in cities (especially in the German speaking part). The more rural you go the more it will be difficult. However I think you will always get away with it somehow. My English is definitely better than the average English level in Switzerland. This has different reasons: (1) I am interested in learning other languages, (2) I work with a lot of foreigners (in IT) that do not speak a local language, so we communicate in English, (3) Most of information (on any topic) i pull from the internet is in English. There are much more English resources and therefore the quality is generally better. E.g. looking at a German (from Germany I mean) Lawn & Garden forum: There is no comparison. It is just BLABLA without real knowledge and sh*** advice. Also everything related to science is generally published in English.
OH and BTW: the French spoken in Switzerland is quite neutral and understandable besides some regions and the mountains, where they have a stronger accent. But generally in the plains i would say it is almost more standard than the French spoken in France.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I know swiss-german is not an official language. I travel to the Jura region and they proudly to say they are swiss-french. I tease them around why they cannot just be swiss. It can be a very expensive country, but it is a great place to visit and enjoy the small towns (I avoid tourist areas).

Now lets talk soil:
In the top of the second page, 46% sand, 31% Silt, and 21% Clay. This is a good soil.
pH 7.5 - this is towards the high side, but not terrible. I dont think you can change this with elemental sulfur just by looking at calcium. Do your still water has a lot of white residue (hard water)?

I'm going to use the AA E10 section instead of the water extraction. I'm also going to use the AA ranges that @Ridgerunner has in his thread, but I'm not 100% sure it is the same AA test. Hopefully ridgerunner can chime in in the EDTA portion of the AA and the phosphorous.



> Ammonium Acetate pH7
> 
> Ranges (ppm)
> 
> ...


P = 30ppm
K = 78ppm
Calcium = 78, 720 ppm
Magnesium = 478ppm

The P and K seems low in the graph and looking at the AA ranges. The Calcium value seems very odd.

I suggest you use an actual fertilizer with phosphorous and not just organic fertilizer. The pH is high, which makes P harder to get into the plant.

Apply K this year monthly while the grass is growing. Try to mulch mow to keep the nutrients back into the soil.

The micronutrients seem fine. I'm not sure what test method/range they are really using. The only thing the test is not testing is sulfur levels.

In regards to iron, I forgot about the conversation last year about the chelated iron. You used it via soil or foliar? FAS is way cheaper and it works. The EDDHA should also work, but it needs more pound on the soil to see an effect and it cost a lot more. The one study I know about did not see an effect when it was used in the soil.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

@g-man @hammerhead Although Hammerhead provided great translation, the language barrier still hurts as it impedes the ability to decipher hints from subscripts and annotations. It's unusual for P levels to be extracted via AA. There is work done at a few laboratories/universities using the Soltanpour and Schwab Ammonium Bicarbonate‐DTPA (AB‐DTPA) extract. I'm not very familiar with it, but it's my understanding that other than for P, it has not been well calibrated and that it is not used for Ca and Mg (might explain the reported Ca levels?). Then again, he AAE10 could be some version or something completely different with a completely unique scale for interpretation. Sorry, I don't know what methods and protocols were used and can be of no help. Better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.


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## hammerhead (May 14, 2019)

Thanks @g-man

OK, first the usual off-topic : It's true. And actually it's much worse: There are actually 26 Swiss nationalities (26 cantons). Can you imagine that all of those cantons have a different education and health system, and this in a country with not even 9 million citizens. 26 Covid policies, 26 vaccination strategies...ohh give me a break. We (they) are so freedom loving that we (they) do not accept any central instances and this is why Switzerland is highly federated. The system works VERY WELL out of crises periods (we have not had any after WW2, until now), however gets quickly to its limits where a mutual strategy in crises situations is needed.

About the soil: 
- As per your suggestion I will go with a *fertilizer with P* from now on
- Will also apply *2lbs/M of K until August*
- Regarding iron EDDHA: I applied foliarly and washed it off the next morning
- Yes i have hard water (I think I already mentioned it in my last post). I may have applied some fert that also contained calcium, however my values really seem off the chart. I live in the middle of the Swiss Alps and water directly comes from a source in the mountains. BTW i just found the water analysis for my municipality: https://www.conthey.ch/data/documents/Analyseschimiques-Villagesdubas.pdf. pH is 8.1 and Calcium 51.6 ppm. However looking at the Calcium there i do not think this can explain the high content. Or does it? I'm wondering if my very high calcium value is a problem. Another thing: I live in a rather dry area and therefore a significant portion of the water the lawn gets comes from irrigation.
- For the trace elements they say they used AAE10_Ca_Mg_ICP-Ibu (Mg+Ca AAE10-Ex), but I'm not sure if that's really they way they determined B, Mn, Cu and Fe.
- I will mulch mow from now on. I didn't do it due to fear of spreading Poa Annua (i have a few spots here and there, not many), but well, lets get those nutrient levels right first.

Cheers!


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## hammerhead (May 14, 2019)

Thank you@Ridgerunner for having a look.
Did some research and I just read a document from Agroscope (Swiss Agricultural Research Center). Here some of what they say:
"In limestome rich soils [which i have], the AAE10 method extracts much more Ca then other methods because of the dissolving of the limestone. Therefore this value should be interpreted more as a representation of the amount of limestone present in the soil and not the actual Ca. Every % limestone increases the AAE10-Ca content around 4'000 mg/kg (ppm)."

I therefore guess i have a very limestone rich soil. I also think can safely ignore the AAE10-Ca value. Do you agree?

Maybe you can just give me hints for which values I should look at the H2010 scale and for which ones at the AAE10.

Thank you so much.

Also tagging @g-man as he might be interested in this.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I started googling around AAE10. I found this. https://www.agrarforschungschweiz.ch/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/2006_1112_1225.pdf

A quick read also shows that your area can have calcareous soils (thanks to the Matterhorn?), which can explain the high calcium.

So in summary, do P and K based on their graphs and mulch mow.


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

g-man said:


> I suggest you use an actual fertilizer with phosphorous and not just organic fertilizer. The pH is high, which makes P harder to get into the plant.


I would certainly like to pick your brain on this. Yes, I know P is less available outside a certain pH range and I read that you should wait at least a month between lime and apps of fertilizers with P. But why would it make a difference whether the P is form an organic or synthetic source other than it being slow or fast release? Does it have something to do with microbes being less active in alkaline soil?

And here is a diagram here showing availability of elements at certain pH levels. Note that P is most available between 6.5 and 7.5:


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## hammerhead (May 14, 2019)

g-man said:


> I started googling around AAE10. I found this. https://www.agrarforschungschweiz.ch/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/2006_1112_1225.pdf


Haha, this is the exact same document i found . See my response to @Ridgerunner, i translated a tiny section of it regarding the AAE10-Cal method..


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

> I therefore guess i have a very limestone rich soil. I also think can safely ignore the AAE10-Ca value. Do you agree?
> 
> Maybe you can just give me hints for which values I should look at the H2010 scale and for which ones at the AAE10.


Your offer to go down the rabbit hole is enticing, thanks but no thanks.  :lol: 
Using water as a nutrient extract reveals what is in soil solution (i.e in solution in the water in the soil-plants/turf gets most of needed nutrients via soil solution) for the specific time the soil sample was taken. The quantities of nutrients in solution can vary significantly day to day, even hour to hour due to temperature, microbe activity, root exudate release, etc.) Agronomists disagree on the usefullness of water extraction (saturated paste tests) of soil nutrients, but the consensus of all is that it can't be used for calculating fertilizer application.
In order to make long term fertilization calculation, other test have been developed: Mehlich M# series, Morgan and ammonium acetate and research continues in an effort to find better extraction methods. Ammonium acetate DPTA is one and apparently the AA E10 ammonium acetate EDTA, a slightly less acidic but greater chelation capacity variant is another. (IMO the driving force for many of these alternative methods is to develop a more accurate method for measuring the elusive available P levels in soils. So many variants present in different soils affect available levels. This may result in more accurate P measurement but at the expense of accurate measurement of some of the other nutrients.)
Pulling my foot out of the rabbit hole.
For determining seasonal/long term fertilizer applications your only viable option is the results reported for AAE10. The only guidance provided is the bar chart, however most labs can direct you to the numeric ranges used to create the bar chart to delineate "low" (arm?) "average" (genugend?) and "high (angereichert?). (i.e. the sufficiency ranges like the one g-man posted for AA above). I'd contact the lab and ask them for those values so you have a better idea where your values stand.


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## hammerhead (May 14, 2019)

Thanks @Ridgerunner for taking so much time in order to give me a good explanation, really appreciate it.

Here my translations:
arm=poor
mässig=moderate
genügend=sufficient
vorrat="in reserve"
angereichert=enriched (supplemented) or in other words "very high"

Regarding the values for those ranges, I will have a look and post them as soon as I got more info.

The lab itself is officially certified by the Swiss Agricultural Research center (Agroscope) , so i guess they only use viable methods. Agroscope also seem to publish scientific articles in German (don't ask me why) instead of English.

EDIT: the lab targets the C range (sufficient).

Cheers!


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

> The lab itself is officially certified by the Swiss Agricultural Research center (Agroscope) , so i guess they only use viable methods. Agroscope also seem to publish scientific articles in German (don't ask me why) instead of English.


Just for the record, I wasn't doubting the quality or accuracy of the laboratory or test. I'm sure there are studies so supporting. Otherwise academics would have a field day and don't see that in my short Google (as I mentioned I already have enough rabbit holes to keep me busy) and if the results weren't useful in determining fertilization for performance, clients wouldn't be around long. I'm just not familiar with this method of testing, so my input is restricted.


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

hammerhead said:


> Here my translations:
> arm=poor
> mässig=moderate
> genügend=sufficient
> ...


Interesting how I figured out the relavance of all these words you mention based on where they are on the chart, even though I had no idea what they actually read. Just like the first time I went up to Canada, I saw the word "ARRET" in a red octagon and I knew it meany STOP even though I never saw the word ARRET before.


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