# Pete1313's 2020 Lawn Journal



## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Time to get going in 2020. To check out my lawn In the past, here are my previous lawn journals.
Pete1313 Reel Mowed Bewitched Kentucky Bluegrass Renovation

Pete1313's 2019 Lawn Journal

I still have some inside projects that I'm working on, but when you get a day above 60°F in early March in northern IL, I can't think of a better way to spend my time then in the yard.

Started out clearing out this one bed.


The tree struggled all thru last year, most of it was dead, and the bushes were overgrown and unsightly. So I ended up leveling it all.


Putting my x-mas present to use (gorilla cart).


All cleared out. I need to put some thought into this bed and what to put in its place. I don't think I will add another tree. I plan on grinding the stumps next month as well as adding mulch, but am undecided on what to plant.


Cleared out 2 remaining bushes in this area as well as some overgrowth in the bed behind it. This one bed used to have 2 trees in it at one time, but will now be a clean slate to work with this year after some stumps are ground. Once again, I'm not sure about putting any trees here either. They add too much shade to the back corner.




Added 100 lbs of gypsum to the front of the lawn by the street and in the ditch in anticipation of next weeks rain. The gypsum is a preventative for any salt damage.

I attempted to take soil samples, but the ground was too soft in spots and still frozen a couple inches down in others. Those will need to wait for now.

Last year my final mow was at 13/16", I really want to get out and knock off the brown tips with a 3/4" mow but the triplex is waiting on some new hydraulic lines that go to the reel motors.


I inspected them recently and found one was seeping and others had significant cracking. Trying to prevent one from blowing during the season, I took them to my local JD Ag dealer Saturday morning. They made 3 new lines(I reused the old corrugated tubing) but have to locate some special fittings for the other lines. Having new lines made are about 1/3 the price of a new OE part, are the same quality and look identical. Looking to have it buttoned up by next weekend.


The lawn is still pretty dormant. Here are a few pics throughout the yard. Despite it not growing, the dormant color of bewitched is still naturally darker then the NoMix lawns in the area.










Despite working in the lawn, I try and take time to enjoy it. Enjoyed watching the boy take some batting practice. Not too bad of a swing for a 7 year old. Takes after his old man  


Feels good to get outside after winter, and am excited to get the 2020 season going!


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Yay, pete journal updates .

If your looking for ideas for your open gardens I'd consider a few things that would mix well together. Yew shrubs, hydrangeas and ornamental grasses.

Yews are easy to care for and look great even in winter.

Hydrangeas will add some nice summer color and the newer varieties they have don't fall over because they get too heavy like the older varieties.

For ornamental grass you should look into something like elijah blue fescue. I think that would look great in your landscape.

Anyways that's just a few thoughts of what I'd consider planting. I'm sure whatever you plant there will look great.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@SNOWBOB11, thanks for your feedback on the open gardens! I like your thoughts on the plant suggestions. I was already thinking about ornamental grasses and like the idea of hydrangeas as well. Do you think the hydrangeas would do ok in the full sun in the front yard? Both beds I feel are focal points of the front and back yard. The back bed is right in the middle of the whole yard as you know, and the front one is the main one right in front of the house.. hey, want to design them for me?


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Pete1313 said:


> @SNOWBOB11, thanks for your feedback on the open gardens! I like your thoughts on the plant suggestions. I was already thinking about ornamental grasses and like the idea of hydrangeas as well. Do you think the hydrangeas would do ok in the full sun in the front yard? Both beds I feel are focal points of the front and back yard. The back bed is right in the middle of the whole yard as you know, and the front one is the main one right in front of the house.. hey, want to design them for me?


There are some varieties that do prefer some shade but others are just fine with full sun. One I'm thinking might be nice is bobo hydrangeas. They are fine with full sun and have a nice strong stem so no dropping over when the flowers get large. They are a more compact hydrangea as in they grow to around 3' in hight. I prefer the compact bush types over the ones that grow really tall.

I think several of those in the centre of your front oval garden with the ornamental grasses around the entire perimeter would look just amazing. Wire up some led spot lights to highlight the hydrangeas and your set  

Only thing to keep in mind is with that variety the flowers do turn pink eventually after starting out as white and some people aren't cool with pink so that's something to consider.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think converting the front circle to lawn would be better. I would then bring the retention wall out more and almost connect it to the other front lawn tree. In front of the retraction wall I would plant knockout roses with a 3' mulch area (easier for reel mowing). Above the retention wall I would think even a Japanese maple (not great with our soils) or small weeping redbud with some shrubs should look nice.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Thanks @SNOWBOB11 for the additional feedback. I like your ideas and have me in planning mode now.

@g-man, the idea of more turf always sounds appealing, but I'm not sure it would be a good fit with the other beds. I like the spacing of the 4 mulch rings to the right of the driveway and think it would make the other 2 tree rings to the right of the one we are talking about to be kind of just out in "no man's land" and not spaced properly. Agree? Btw, that google image is amazing. It's cool to see how the lawn has filled in since then. Also for reference, it is about 30ft from the edge of the retaining wall to the tree ring next to the driveway. I like and need to have turf between that area for 2 reasons. One the kids use that hill to sled and snowboard down during the winter and the dogs race around the house and springboard off that area when they are chasing after something or just playing. The bewitched has stood up to the punishment there.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Picked up some supplies today. I don't need them yet, but since I need to get them from a supplier closer to my work and decided to drive in the truck today, I picked them up. 


200 lbs of ferrous sulfate and 200 lbs of ammonium sulfate. The ferrous sulfate is a part of my foliar sprays and at around $15 for 50 lbs is a cheap iron option. The ammonium sulfate is a greens grade and is soluble. The AS will be mixed in with some of my soil spray apps (pre-m, grub control, fungicide apps), if during those apps I feel the need to get some additional N from AS in the soil. I prefer to use urea for my N in my foliar sprays.

There are 2 different versions of AS that I use. This one that I picked up today is white and dissolves easily. SGN is 100-120


The other one I use is made for granular applications only with a SGN of 220. It is cheaper, but not recommended to dissolve as it is alittle dirtier and can clog tips. I spread this one by itself when needed, but also like to blend it 50/50 with SOP and spread it.


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## mribbens (Jul 13, 2018)

Pete1313 said:


> Picked up some supplies today. I don't need them yet, but since I need to get them from a supplier closer to my work and decided to drive in the truck today, I picked them up.
> 
> 
> 200 lbs of ferrous sulfate and 200 lbs of ammonium sulfate. The ferrous sulfate is a part of my foliar sprays and at around $15 for 50 lbs is a cheap iron option. The ammonium sulfate is a greens grade and is soluble. The AS will be mixed in with some of my soil spray apps (pre-m, grub control, fungicide apps), if during those apps I feel the need to get some additional N from AS in the soil. I prefer to use urea for my N in my foliar sprays.
> ...


Looking forward to your updates, we are getting close to mowing.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

mribbens said:


> Looking forward to your updates, we are getting close to mowing.


Getting close, but not this weekend.


Spent the day in the garage getting some equipment ready for the season. My local JD dealer got the remaining fittings and made the other hydraulic lines. All of the hydraulic lines going to the reels are now new. I also replaced all the seal face o-rings.








Here is a pic of a old return line that was seeping.


Here is one of the pressure lines that had significant cracking.


The OE return lines had different hose and fittings and were only rated to 350psi, but when JD made the new ones I had them make them just like the pressure lines and used the 3000psi Hose.




Also changed the hydro fluid and filter on the X590 and did the rest of the 200hr service as well.


Both machines are all set for the season!


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

Man, that's a lot of work on the hydraulic system!

I was advised NOT to open up the hydraulic system unless there was a problem. No filter change etc, just make sure the hydraulic fluid is right and top it off.

I haven't had to do any maintenance on it yet, but once my lines start cracking like that.....

Why does everyone's garage look so much cleaner than mine?!?!?! :lol: :lol:


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@HoosierLawnGnome, I can understand the advice on not opening it up unless there is a problem.. after all, it is only a matter of time before something leaks with hydraulics. So just do the fluid and filter then. For the record, I did change out the fluid and filter when I first got the machine in 2016 since I didnt know the service history. The lines are not hard to do and only took a couple hours, but I do mechanical tasks like this every day for a living. I do think some mechanical ability is required when owning a used triplex.. I wouldn't want to pay someone or send out the machine for some of the repairs that I have done to it. I didn't need to replace all the lines to the units, but feel good that they are all new. I also kept a few of the old ones as a just incase. Out of the 9 hoses, there is only 4 different part numbers. So keeping a few of the best used ones will insure the machine stays up and running down the road.



HoosierLawnGnome said:


> Why does everyone's garage look so much cleaner than mine?!?!?! :lol: :lol:


I recently just cleaned it up a bit when I kicked the truck out of the garage and moved the mowers from their storage spots to their ready to go positions.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

I was lucky in that I bought a machine with detailed service records..... that I subsequently destroyed on accident by putting the plastic tube in upside down, then powerwashing the machine and waterlogging it....  :dumb:

I agree, you need to be able to do do basic stuff if you own a triplex or you'll go broke. And, if the mower is down, you don't have a replacement unless you have another machine! Nobody can loan you one, and a rotary won't mow that low. So, I keep common spare parts on hand. I go through o-rings for the reel motors all. the. time.

I had a scare last summer. Mid-mow, I ran over something. Looked down, and the reel motor had pulled off. I hadn't tightened it enough probably. I ran over it, but stopped before I broke the line or damaged something else. I bent the elbow connector for the hydraulics and was back in business after I ran to the hardware store for bolts.

I was warned that hydraulic fluid leaking on your lawn causes an irreparable dead line. Apparently one of the groundskeepers at the local course was mowing, broke a hose, and didn't notice for several hundred yards. The grass died in a long line and they had to dig the soil out to get it to grow back. :shock: :shock:


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@HoosierLawnGnome, I had a hydraulic line pop on the cleanup pass on 8/2/2018.
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=87725#p87725

It did some damage but luckily caught it right away. I didn't really document the damage, but there was some. Here are a couple pics 2 days later on 8/4 where you can see the grass turning off color. You can see the spot that I stopped, and then the line where I pulled off into the mulch bed.




Those spots died, took a while to come back, but they eventually did without any additional help. Here is a pic from 4/21/19. If you zoom in close, you can still see a little line where no grass grew back yet.


Here is a pic 10/29/19, when blowing out the sprinklers, that the dead areas are gone.


It was this experience however that made me be proactive and inspect and replace all the other lines going to the reels.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Picked up some more supplies today.

A pallet of gypsum(2000 lbs)


100 lbs of SOP, 150 lbs of urea, and 200 lbs of granular AS.


150 lbs of sulfur.


I have not yet pulled cores for a soil test but will do that most likely on Sunday. I would like to also do my cleanup mow and maybe put down my first round of gypsum after taking samples. I might need some more gypsum and SOP later in the year, but will wait for the test results and see. Based on previous tests and inputs I know I will need at least these supplies to start.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Took my soil samples yesterday. Let them dry out some, mixed them up and sent them out to Waypoint today.





Took a core down to 12" just for fun.



I would like to do more outside, but unfortunately this happened again after I was done taking my samples.


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## beardizzle1 (Jun 13, 2019)

Pete1313 said:


> I recently just cleaned it up a bit when I kicked the truck out of the garage and moved the mowers from their storage spots to their ready to go positions.


I'm glad I'm not the only one that moves the truck outside and mowers in during mowing season!


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## KoopHawk (May 28, 2019)

I should be getting my results from Waypoint tomorrow! Glad I got my samples when I did. My lot has been a mud pit since.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

beardizzle1 said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one that moves the truck outside and mowers in during mowing season!


The priorities of a lawn nut.. would rather have the truck stuck out in a storm then have the mowers out of position.



KoopHawk said:


> I should be getting my results from Waypoint tomorrow! Glad I got my samples when I did. My lot has been a mud pit since.


One of my biggest challenges is dealing with conditions that are too wet. It seems all to common these past years. Early spring and fall are especially challenging. This heavy soil never dries out!


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## IaHawk (Apr 29, 2018)

KoopHawk said:


> I should be getting my results from Waypoint tomorrow! Glad I got my samples when I did. My lot has been a mud pit since.


Curious to see your results.

I'm looking to use Waypoint for the first time and it appears the site has changed a little since I was looking last year or maybe I'm just not remembering it right. I know I don't have to choose the site from my state (Iowa) but I see they have a Lawn and Garden Soil Test that is S1H....is that enough or should I choose Tennessee and get a S3M Turf & Landscape test?


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@IaHawk, I use the Iowa lab as well. You can have them do the S3M test there and is what I use. Surprisingly the S3M test is cheaper than the S1H homeowner one (at least last time I checked) and has more info in the test. If you need help with what submittal sheet to use and how to fill out, let me know. After the first year, you will get set up with an account and can just use the online login or the Waypoint app to generate your submittal sheet and labels.

Note that the address on the top of this page is incorrect. They updated most of their sheets but this is the old address. Make sure you send it to-

Waypoint Analytical 
700 Park Drive
Atlantic, IA 50022


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## KoopHawk (May 28, 2019)

IaHawk said:


> KoopHawk said:
> 
> 
> > I should be getting my results from Waypoint tomorrow! Glad I got my samples when I did. My lot has been a mud pit since.
> ...


I sent one to A&L Great Lakes Labs too just to get a consensus because I am starting my lawn from scratch. When I get them back I am going to start a thread. The S3M from WayPoint in Atlantic was less than $18 and the comprable test from A&L was $30 I think.

Here is the link to the form: https://www.waypointanalytical.com/Docs/samplesubmittalforms/WaypointSoilInformationSheet-Iowa.pdf


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

I got the results back last Thursday for this years soil test. The latest test is at the bottom. This will be my 5th season working on my current yard and thought it would be neat to put together the previous tests as well as inputs to track how the soil has changed thru the years. It will also give me a spot to quickly reference past tests easier.

2016 soil test. List on the right is the conversions to PPM to make comparing to Waypoint's soil test easier.


2016 total inputs.


2017 soil test. Conversions again on right.


2017 inputs. Renovation year.


2018 soil test.


2018 inputs. Grow-in year.


2019 soil test.


2019 inputs.


2020 soil test.


Looking thru the tests, you can see the P and K have gone up. You can also see the Ca numbers raising and the Mg numbers are slowly dropping. In 2016 the Ca:Mg ratio was 1.39 and now in 2020 that number has gone up to 2.61. The only last note from the 2020 test is the usefulness of testing for S. 11 ppm, but if you look at my 2019 inputs you can see that I put down some serious sulfates from gypsum and AS. Obviously a low number means I am low, but if that number was higher I wouldn't expect it to stay at the high range all season since S/sulfates are pretty mobile.

Looking at my plans for 2020, I will still continue working on the Ca:Mg. Much will stay the same from 2019, but will look to reduce my amount of N and try and get that yearly total down into the mid to low 3's for lbs/M of N.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

That is seriously cool Pete&#128526;


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## Deltahedge (Apr 1, 2020)

Hi Pete. I am just starting my obsession with the lawn down here in a suburb of Houston TX. I have come across this forum many times as I am trying to learn, but never joined. This is my first post. The tipping point for me joining the forum was reading through all 34 pages of your 2019 renovation. The attention to detail and ability to fix and work on everything yourself is impressive. Thank you for going through the effort of detailing your experience so that others can come along and learn as you post. You have a great looking yard; the result of much planning and executing.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Thanks @TheWhiteWizard!

Thanks for the kind words @jspearm1983! Welcome to TLF! So much info on here and alot of knowledgeable members. You will be glad you joined!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Throw on the baskets! It's time for the first mow of the season!


Took today and tomorrow off of work to get some yard work done. Cleaned up some sticks and yard debris, set the cutting units up to 3/4" HOC and the FTC groomer was set to 9/16" and then gave it a trim. Some dog spots were 2.5" tall,


But most of the lawn was just over 1".


It was an enjoyable mow as it has not rained in 5 days and the ground is firming up a bit. Low 60's and sunny isn't too bad either. I usually don't mow with the baskets on, but always do for the first mow to clean it up. I stopped counting, but ended up with 40-50 baskets full.


The clippings.


Some random shots after edging, trimming, and mowing.












Backyard faired well this winter. Minimal dog damage.


Afterwards, I had my helper follow me around as I put down my first round of gypsum. 900 lbs(22.5 lbs/M).


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

Wow! Just wow...


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

Beautiful!!


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

:nod: Like a British estate, minus the hedgerows!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@Alex1389, @uts, @Chris LI thanks!

I want to share this facebook post and video as it made me smile. It was in a post my wife made about the bonfire we were having last night.










In other news I rented this guy today.


Marked 18 stumps that needed to get ground out. Most were smaller Bush type stumps, but 5 were tree stumps. This pic is of the stump from the ash tree I cut down last year.


Made a little mess, but had fun!


Once it all was cleaned up, I powered up the irrigation to make sure all was still good.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Pete1313 All looks amazing! Jealous. I have a question about your soil tests and inputs. Why did you keep pumping P, while year after year you were above target?
And How do you deal with slightly above target pH
B


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Babameca said:


> @Pete1313 All looks amazing! Jealous. I have a question about your soil tests and inputs. Why did you keep pumping P, while year after year you were above target?
> And How do you deal with slightly above target pH
> B


Sorry for the late reply. In 2016 P was 49 ppm, in 2017 P was 47 ppm. Some would argue that those numbers are actually below target for my soil. 2017 was when I renovated. some extra P is beneficial during that time. In 2018 the P came in at 71 ppm, which is a better number. Being the grow in year and knowing I would also be putting down higher rates of N, I thought that 1.26 lbs/M of P2o5 would be beneficial. In 2019, once established and a P of 83 ppm I put down virtually no P and will also put down no P this year as the test shows 76 ppm. If future tests show that number start to drop into the 60's however, I will begin slowly bringing some P back in.

In regards to PH, although I spray urea, N that goes into the soil is AS. I also put down some elemental S. PH numbers will be highest in spring for me. With the inputs during the season, if I tested In fall those numbers would be lower. The PH number affects me in two ways. It makes me spray my iron (who am I kidding, I'm would spray iron anyway  ) and it makes me pay more attention to summerpatch and what inputs to make it less severe.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Another day out in the yard. Spent today redefining the beds. Most of them are done. I have about 300 linear feet left to do tomorrow morning. Also ordered mulch and set it to be delivered before next weekend.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Amazing as always @Pete1313 !


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Thanks @ericgautier!


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## mowww (Jan 16, 2018)

@Pete1313 any idea how many CC you bed redefiner is? I'd love to set my Tanaka TBC 260 up to do the task but wonder if it has the power to handle the echo gearbox and the role.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@mowww, it's on a PAS-2620 which is 25.4 cc.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Thanks @Pete1313 for the extensive answer. Looking forward to follow your journal. We are still painfully slowly waking up from winter dormancy...


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Prodiamine + isoxaben sprayed in the mulch beds yesterday.

Another mow today. Also moved some plugs and then sprayed prodiamine and alittle ammonium sulfate to the lawn.


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## mmaer (Mar 19, 2020)

Hey @Pete1313, I sent you a PM, but any chance you'd be willing to share your fert input spreadsheet and the irrigation log that you posted last year? I tried clicking on the link, but it doesn't appear to be active any longer. Thanks!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

mmaer said:


> Hey @Pete1313, I sent you a PM, but any chance you'd be willing to share your fert input spreadsheet and the irrigation log that you posted last year? I tried clicking on the link, but it doesn't appear to be active any longer. Thanks!


I could, but to be honest they are fairly basic and mainly setup just for the products I use.
@g-man has some more detailed ones that might be worth taking a look at.
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=921


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## mmaer (Mar 19, 2020)

@Pete1313 In that case, would you mind sharing just the irrigation spreadsheet? That's the one I was most interested in because of the way you have the zones broken out. Thanks!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@mmaer, PM sent.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

I'll show her. I might just have to lay some mulch despite the snowflakes in the air.

https://youtu.be/Ivd3AjEz7AA


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

We had great weather and so cold now.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Well the wife was right.. maybe tomorrow. :lol:







g-man said:


> We had great weather and so cold now.


Yeah, despite the nice weather we have had, it is an unwelcome reminder that it is still really early in the season.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Made a good dent in the pile after work today. My wife and oldest daughter also got some done in the afternoon before I got home.



Have this spot left to do tomorrow.



Rain coming tomorrow afternoon so I will get out early and get it done.


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## kds (Apr 28, 2017)

How do you trim the grass around your beds? I would love to do natural edges but it sounds like a pain to mow around and redefine 1-2 times a year.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

kds said:


> How do you trim the grass around your beds? I would love to do natural edges but it sounds like a pain to mow around and redefine 1-2 times a year.


With a reel mower the natural edges are really easy to mow. You can let it overhang the edge without worry to cut any vertical growth. The full rollers keep it from falling down in the bed and scalping.

I have an echo bed redefiner attachment for my pas-2620. You can see in previous posts how I clean them out to start the season. To do that I use a combination of the bed redefiner, rake, and triangle garden hoe to clean them out. After that maintaining the edge is easy during the season. I just use the bed redefiner. It redefines the edge as well as trims the horizontal grass growth. If you stay on top of it and do it every 2-4 weeks. You can probably run the bed redefiner across 1000 linear feet in 30 minutes and keep the edges looking sharp.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Look, the mulch pile is gone!



Got it all done as well as a mow and trim. Just started to rain as I was finishing up the mow. Lots of traffic marks thru the lawn. Happy with what I have accomplished and how it is looking for April.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

Looks amazing per usual!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Amazing how much the mulch makes those beds pop! Looks great Pete!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Thanks @Alex1389 and @synergy0852!

I was excited to get this mulch down and see how it looked. It is not a colored mulch, just a triple ground that was sitting at the bottom of a 40ft tall pile. It has a good natural color and love the consistency. Also at $20/yd, it was significantly cheaper then some colored products I have used in the past. We will see how the color fares once the summer sun hits it.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Looks really great!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Perfect day on Sunday to get some yard work done. Mid 60's F, full sun, low winds.

Started off giving the triplex its monthly maintenance of backlapping and greasing. Then gave the lawn a trim, HOC 5/8" and the FTC was set at 1/2". Some pics after I was done mowing.











I have been picking up a couple extra mows as I worked the HOC down from 3/4".



Then gave the lawn its first PGR/foliar N spray of the year. Alittle different for the first spray as compared to last year. I added in some ethephon as well as some AMS along with the T-nex, urea, and FS. Nitrogen rate was .106 lbs of N/M.



Lots of little rain events and combined with the ET numbers, the zone deficits(calculated with an 80% Kc) are staying in a good range with no irrigation cycles ran yet.


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## MNLawnGuy1980 (May 10, 2019)

Looks great @Pete1313, Last year I went with T-Nex, and will again this year, but ended up dealing with the seed heads below the hoc for quite some time. Do you just spray the T-Nex and worry about the seed heads later since I don't think it suppresses them, I could be wrong on it though. 
Those pics from 04/11 look phenomenal with the beds finished and the darkness of the lawn.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

MNLawnGuy1980 said:


> Looks great @Pete1313, Last year I went with T-Nex, and will again this year, but ended up dealing with the seed heads below the hoc for quite some time. Do you just spray the T-Nex and worry about the seed heads later since I don't think it suppresses them, I could be wrong on it though.
> Those pics from 04/11 look phenomenal with the beds finished and the darkness of the lawn.


With just T-nex you will still get seed heads. They will last 3-4 weeks. The plan this year was the addition ethephon to the mix to suppress them. The T-nex/ethephon mix can cause some phytotoxicity (T-nex in general) if you get a hard frost after application. Looking at the forecast, I think I am in the clear from getting a hard frost event. Hopeful that I timed the ethephon mix as seedheads are typically 3 weeks away. I ran out of mix in the last couple passes in the back yard so hopefully it leaves a control area to see how the mix works. There will be a follow up T-nex/ethephon spray in a few weeks and will then resume just spraying the T-nex. This is my first year adding ethephon to the early spring sprays.


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## MNLawnGuy1980 (May 10, 2019)

Thanks for the info @Pete1313, I appreciate it.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Looks really great...


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Anytime @MNLawnGuy1980. :thumbsup:

Thanks @Stuofsci02!


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## joallen001 (Nov 29, 2018)

How does the redefiner do on throwing mulch out of the bed into the lawn. I have been wanting to purchase one of these but I thought it would require more mulch similar to the use of a bed edger machine.



Pete1313 said:


> With a reel mower the natural edges are really easy to mow. You can let it overhang the edge without worry to cut any vertical growth. The full rollers keep it from falling down in the bed and scalping.
> 
> I have an echo bed redefiner attachment for my pas-2620. You can see in previous posts how I clean them out to start the season. To do that I use a combination of the bed redefiner, rake, and triangle garden hoe to clean them out. After that maintaining the edge is easy during the season. I just use the bed redefiner. It redefines the edge as well as trims the horizontal grass growth. If you stay on top of it and do it every 2-4 weeks. You can probably run the bed redefiner across 1000 linear feet in 30 minutes and keep the edges looking sharp.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

joallen001 said:


> How does the redefiner do on throwing mulch out of the bed into the lawn. I have been wanting to purchase one of these but I thought it would require more mulch similar to the use of a bed edger machine.


Not too bad. I touched up the edges with it last week again and didn't have to go back with a rake to move any mulch back into the bed. Most of the mulch/edge clean out gets thrown a foot into the bed, but you might get a piece here or there that goes a couple inches outside of the bed.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Got a chance to install these guys yesterday and do a small test. They are 2.5" diameter grooved rollers from Golfco. I have been looking hard at these rollers the past couple years. When talking with my local JD turf rep, he strongly recommended these for my situation. They have some unique advantages relating to my yard and how I mow KBG. Initial test of them was impressive and can't wait to get more hours on them and really test them out. They are a close fit to the FTC groomer assembly. 2.5" is the biggest roller that will fit the QA5 cutting unit with a groomer. Without a groomer you would be able to fit a 3" roller on the QA5.


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Do those thicker rollers change the max/min hoc for the cutting units?


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

gm560 said:


> Do those thicker rollers change the max/min hoc for the cutting units?


They do. Min HOC is still unchanged and as low as your current bedknife will allow (depending on knife thickness). The Max HOC is now raised to around 1.75" with the 2.5" roller.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

@Pete1313 Could you expand on the following two sentences:

"When talking with my local JD turf rep, he strongly recommended these for my situation. They have some unique advantages relating to my yard and how I mow KBG."

Interested in how a bigger roller would alter things. Thanks!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@Biggylawns, this clip was taken from TLF discord a few days ago when @g-man and I were talking front roller setup.



Take a look at the groove spacing and depth on the 2.5" golfco roller i showed above and notice they are wider and deeper. golfco also offers a 3" with even deeper grooves but won't fit my current setup with the FTC installed.

Here is a picture of the 2.5" roller that JD sells for the 22" width.



Here is JD's 3" roller for the 22" width, similar design.



Here is a JD 3" spiral version for the 22" width.



All have different advantages/disadvantages but are all designed to cut taller grass better. Look at the wide spaced and deeper grooves.

Lastly, look at how alot of professional sports fields have their reel mowers set up to mow cool season grass. Here is a 260B with a 3" front roller.



The bigger roller with deeper grooves simply put should allow for a cleaner cut on a higher HOC. The golfco rollers don't have as deep of grooves but have some other advantages for me with the polyurethane material and the curved inside groove shape in that they will help me with material build up as well as be gentler in the cleanup passes around the mulch rings. Those last two are more issues on how a triplex cuts around turns and slopes. The sharp vertical grooves on the JD versions could gouge and dig some when turning, especially on slopes. There are other unique features that golfco rollers provide and feel free to check out their website for more info.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I was thinking on modifying my grooved roller to get less contact area, but Pete showed me the JD roller thats designed to do this. Yesterday I ordered the BM26408 2.5 deep grooved roller.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

That's super interesting and seems on point. Have you noticed any change in your limited time with it?


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@Biggylawns, with the fairway yoke upgrade I did years ago the rear rollers pretty much stay planted on the ground. It is what that upgrade was designed to do. So when I mow I am constantly looking down at just the front rollers on the front cutting units and watching how they wobble, slide and and move. I could tell when they bounce and move, the aftercut quality will decline. I would then adjust my speed/slow down to minimize any movement in the front roller. Then if I slow down too much, the cutting units go along alittle sideways when mowing on slopes and would leave a few missed cuts between the heads that I would need to go back over.

I need to get more hours on these things, but I cut a bit with them yesterday at full speed. These things stayed planted in the grass.. made me giggle. I showed the wife how smooth the aftercut was, but she rolled her eyes and went back inside.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

I have the thicker rollers on my Toro.

But my reels need replaced this fall, so, it still isn't perfect.

I bought it off a GC that used it as the fringe mower, so it was already dialed in for about where I'm cutting.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

HoosierLawnGnome said:


> I have the thicker rollers on my Toro.
> 
> But my reels need replaced this fall, so, it still isn't perfect.
> 
> I bought it off a GC that used it as the fringe mower, so it was already dialed in for about where I'm cutting.


Those larger rollers like you have are better suited for taller HOCs. I have gotten 2 full mows in with the new rollers now and it is easy to see an improvement in aftercut quality.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Fun lawn day on Saturday. Started off dropping the HOC down to 9/16". Did a full mow, edge, trim, redefined all the beds. I was really impressed with the aftercut quality. Probably the cleanest cut I have seen so far. 9/16" is alittle low for me(lost some color) and will bounce it up alittle higher now, but wanted to work it down to get some sand in a few low spots that I still have. I could feel the spots at a higher HOC and most of them are still from the irrigation trenches. Dropping the HOC down made them easy to see and work some sand into them with a leveling rake.







The wife relocated alot of plants from other beds and did a few new plantings. We decided to relocate 10 daylillies and added 3 grasses to this spot I cleared out earlier in the year.



When we were done I put down some elemental sulfur at a rate of 3.25 lbs/M and ran the irrigation for the first time this year to put down .3" of water. Some good ET rates the past 4 days between .165"-.195".



Enjoyed watching the last of the zones run on Sunday morning.


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

Hey Pete, I'm having an irrigation system installed so I generated a spreadsheet identical to yours and I'm wondering if I understand it correctly. When you were targeting 150% ET right after seeding, you wanted a surplus so that the soil would stay moist while the seeds began to germinate. In practice, that meant you would multiply the reference ET by 1.5 and calculate how long to irrigate so that the deficit would be zero on any given day. As the turf began to establish itself and the roots penetrated deeper into the soil, you targeted a max deficit of 0.5" so as to encourage deeper root growth by having the plants chase water. Does that sound right?


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@Zip-a-Dee-Zee, maybe?? Don't get caught up with ET numbers when seeding. Water light and frequent. Multiple times throughout the day just enough to keep the soil moist but not puddling. You will most definitely be above 100% ET but don't fixate on that number. I do think initially I was way above 100% ET, but lots of tweeking of the irrigation was going on and I watched how the soil was staying wet and adjusted accordingly. Once things get going you can back off on the frequency and increase the duration. Younger turf will need more water then a mature stand. Im currently planing to water at 80% ET this year, but on a new stand those numbers will be higher and a little more frequent. Irrigating at a .5" deficit, whether that based off of 80%, 90%, or 100% of ET, seems to be a good general guideline the next spring after a fall renovation but your specific lawn and climate could vary those numbers.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Took this pic after mowing. I'm getting close to the time when seedheads will start popping up. We will see how well the primo/proxy mix works. The NoMix lawns in the area are off color due to their seed stalks being cut and frayed. So far none on the bewitched.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Nice Pete! Are you staying at 9/16" HOC? Doesn't seem look like this cold weather is bothering the bewitched.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@rob13psu, no the actual HOC is somewhere closer to 7/8". The bench HOC was set at 15/16". I wanted to bump it up after I got some sand in the low spots. This HOC is most likely where I will be at this year. One thing I am noticing is these front rollers really get down into the turf. With Bench settings being equal, these rollers probably cut an 1/8" or so lower then the 2" grooved (and definitely lower then the 2" smooth) front rollers I have tried in the past.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Looking super sweet.. love the fat stripes.


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## fusebox7 (Jul 27, 2017)

Great point about the no-mixes - so bizarre this year. I've only mowed once up here but my lawn i almost fully seeding right now. So basically my 2nd mow is going to look horrendous  I'm still not convinced it's fully woken up - other than the triv. Looking forward to reading about your primo/proxy results.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Thanks @Stuofsci02!

@fusebox7 I did think the seedheads/stalks were interesting. I didn't get down too close to look at them. I wonder if it is PRG getting going sooner in the cooler weather.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

I didnt use primo proxy this year for seedheads and I regret it now. The combination of a taller cut with that has made them explode and my lawn is white. Bad.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@HoosierLawnGnome, sorry to hear. Good news is it is temporary. This is my first time trying the combo and look forward to the results. I'm due for another app of primo/proxy this weekend and then after that I will just go with primo in the mix. Depending how it works, it will be something to think about for future years as the proxy does add about $100 to the budget on my lawn size.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

It's been temporary for a week now. Way too much for me. Ugggg. I'll tag you on my post.


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## Trogdor (Jan 13, 2019)

Amazed with your experience and hard work @Pete1313 . Will be following your journal and looking to pick up some more knowledge on the way.

Totally killing it!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@Trogdor Thanks! I'm still learning just like everyone else!


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## bosox_5 (Jun 20, 2018)

Pete1313 said:


> @Trogdor Thanks! I'm still learning just like everyone else!


What Pete should really say:


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@bosox_5, geez! :lol:


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Pete1313 said:


>


Looking good!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Thanks @bernstem!


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## KoopHawk (May 28, 2019)

Pete1313 said:


> Took this pic after mowing. I'm getting close to the time when seedheads will start popping up. We will see how well the primo/proxy mix works. The NoMix lawns in the area are off color due to their seed stalks being cut and frayed. So far none on the bewitched.


Where is your lot line? It is hard to tell...


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## Butter (Nov 14, 2017)

Man, pete that looks good!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Thanks @Butter!

 @KoopHawk. I should check the lot lines though. I'm willing to bet the bewitched has creeped over into the neighbor's yard some in the past years. If you look at the pic, those 2 utility boxes in the background are outside my property line. Hard to tell from that pic though how much the bewitched has spread across it.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

All the way on page #5.. I need to stay more on top of my log! I've been spending alot of energy making pretty things out of wood. Excited that the basement remodel is coming to a close so I can enjoy the yard more.





I have still been getting the lawn tasks done. Let's see where I left off. I dropped elemental sulphur on 5/2, a t-nex/ethephon/iron/N app on 5/15, and an azoxy/N/Mn soil app on 5/21. Here is a screenshot of my log for rates.



The T-nex/ethephon apps seem to be doing a good job at suppressing the seedheads. Kind of wish it didn't work so good as it adds about $100 to my lawn budget. Its not 100%, but if I had to put a number on it I would say its an 80-90% reduction in seedheads with how I timed it. You can see in this pic, near some bricks where I can't get close enough to spray, the ugly seedheads.



But most of the yard is really clean and seedhead free. The few that you can see seem small and underdeveloped.



The 5/21 azoxy/N/Mn/citric acid app was my first preventative app of the season for summerpatch. Last year I was fungicide free, and the only fungus issues I had was a bout with summerpatch. You can read about it in my last journal. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=200658#p200658
It was enough to make me consider fungicides this year. I do think that someday I can tolerate summerpatch without fungicides. Maybe after working on improving the soil over years, or maybe if I didn't cut so short.

Here is a interesting pic showing the differences in summerpatch severity between 3" and 1.5" KBG(same cultivar) when John Inguagiato spoke about it in this webinar.







Lots of consistent mowing at the 15/16" bench HOC. You can see one stretch where i went 5 days between mows. That was for no reason except for lack of growth. I have been alittle lean on the N so far this year, and is why I went alittle higher on the AMS when I soil sprayed azoxy. To date I am currently at .63 lbs/M of N, but was only at .37 lbs/M of N before 5/21.



Not to many irrigation cycles ran. Lots of timely rain. Some in excess. The 5/2 irrigation was to wash in some sand leveling work as well as the sulphur. The 5/21 cycle was to immediately work the azoxy app down with .2" of irrigation.



Here are some pics from 5/23. Color is alittle lighter then I am used to. Might have something to do with the ethephon.







Did an early mow today with dew on the grass. One of my favorite times to mow.



The clippings pile up on the reels,



but the wet mow actually helps clean the reels. After rinsing out the clippings, the reel and rollers are really clean.


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## KoopHawk (May 28, 2019)

Pete1313 said:


> I got the results back last Thursday for this years soil test. The latest test is at the bottom. This will be my 5th season working on my current yard and thought it would be neat to put together the previous tests as well as inputs to track how the soil has changed thru the years. It will also give me a spot to quickly reference past tests easier.
> 
> 2020 soil test.
> 
> ...


What Ca:Mg ratio are you looking for? What is the impact on the grass of the ratio?


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## weirj55 (Apr 13, 2020)

Lawn envy! What a beautiful plot you have. Love that triplex mow. I imagine it is quite fun to use. Basement remodel looks swell as well!

Keep up the great work and thank you for sharing here.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Thanks @weirj55! The triplex has its challenges in a lawn setting and I have worked thru them to get the best setup for my property. It's quite enjoyable to mow with and am looking forward to today's mow as it has been 5 days since my previous mow. I have been slacking on updates, but will get one up this weekend.

@KoopHawk, what Ca:Mg am I looking for? Definitely more than 2.61:1. The lawn started at 1.39:1 and estimate it to be over 3:1 now with the inputs so far this season. Although anecdotal, there have been significant improvements to the soil. BCSR/SLAN/MLSN can be debatable, but a more ideal ratio for my CEC would be up in the 7:1 range. Will I get there, I don't know, but will be happy getting that number higher than it currently is. There are other things that could come into play when pushing the Ca. I do think that the BCSR approach is more important on a higher CEC soil and less so on a sandy soil mixture. What is the impact of that ratio? With a low Ca:Mg ratio, the soil will be chemically compacted, tighter, slower to drain, and less oxygen will get into the soil. Root growth can be restricted. I was happy to see roots at the bottom of a 10" core I pulled on 6/2. I have never seen that on my property, even before renovating. Part of that could just be the result of growing good grass though. I pay attention to the roots, the only hiccup I need to get past in lawn care is some bouts in past years with summerpatch. I would like to get back to being fungicide free as well. Working on the soil chemical balance has plant health benefits and when those numbers get better(hopefully including PH), I will give no fungicides another go. Sorry for the long reply. It is something I feel is important. Even if some may disagree. Here is a couple pics of a 10" core where the roots were poking out the bottom. Took a good amount of cores checking soil moisture that day.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Edge, trim, mow, redefined all the mulch beds today. Took exactly 3hrs to get it all done. Bench HOC is set at 7/8". Snapped a few pics for an update.











In this pic you can see all the toys from a neighborhood boy who rides his battery powered 4 wheeler up almost every day to play in my "topdressing"  pile. Between the pool, sandbox, and yard, there can be as many as 12 neighborhood kids that visit the yard just about every day of the week. The bewitched handles all the extra foot traffic plus the 3 dogs well.


I remembered this pic I took from April 2018, the spring after my reno. It is a cool pic to see how the bewitched KBG filled in on its own without any additional seed or plugs moved to this area. It also shows how the current mower setup is reducing damage in the turns while still having great aftercut quality.

4/23/18









Today


The quality of cut can be hard to photograph, but is really dialed in with minimal stragglers, bobbing, washboarding, etc. Just good clean mowin'.





A pic from yesterday showing the density when looking down.



A clip of me "petting" :? the grass yesterday.






I've been doing a good amount of compatibility/PH testing on sprays lately trying to get the most out of my spray apps. And no, that is not soda/OJ/milk. :roll:



Also note, propiconazole 14.3 is not compatible with Mn sulfate.. no matter how much citric acid you throw at it.



I've been playing around with throwing some citric acid and kelp into the sprays. Not sure if I will continue with the citric acid or go back to the cheaper ferromec AC to drop the tank PH, but will probably keep throwing the kelp4less kelp in the mix for a bit. Here are my yard apps since the last update. Some gypsum, granular AMS/SOP blend, and a couple sprays.



Each one of those sprays put down ~.15 lb/M of N and the AMS/SOP was alittle higher at ~.17 lb/M of N. As of today I am right around 1.1 lbs/M of N for the season, and will tighten that up alittle in the upcoming summer sprays to keep the N down until fall. Growth rate and appearance are good right now and we're at the time in the season where the soil is mineralizing a good chunk of N so not as high of rates will be necessary. Here are the totals of all nutrients to date.



Temps are creeping up.



And some high daily ET rates. As a result, some irrigation cycles are being ran to water in product as well as replenish soil moisture.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I noticed the drop in tnex rate. Too much suppression?


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Good catch @g-man. No, the suppression was just right at the previous rate of ~.3oz/M. I dialed it back alittle in preparation for some propiconazole apps coming up. First one is planned for next thursday.


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## gasdoc (Jul 24, 2019)

Amazing work Pete.

I'm curious, how did you arrive at your kelp dose?

I'm also tank mixing the same kelp. The bag says 1/4 teaspoon per gallon, which seemed low to me, ~1g/M. Looks like you're running it higher which makes sense.

Thanks


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Looked at some rates of other kelp products but also in this old webinar they showed some rates that were tested from VT (although on CBG). Some discussion on dry vs. Liquid products also. Lots of other good info from VT in there as well.

https://www.turfnet.com/webinar_archives.html/hormone-therapy-for-cool-season-turf-r47/


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## KoopHawk (May 28, 2019)

Pete1313 said:


> Thanks @weirj55! The triplex has its challenges in a lawn setting and I have worked thru them to get the best setup for my property. It's quite enjoyable to mow with and am looking forward to today's mow as it has been 5 days since my previous mow. I have been slacking on updates, but will get one up this weekend.
> 
> @KoopHawk, what Ca:Mg am I looking for? Definitely more than 2.61:1. The lawn started at 1.39:1 and estimate it to be over 3:1 now with the inputs so far this season. Although anecdotal, there have been significant improvements to the soil. BCSR/SLAN/MLSN can be debatable, but a more ideal ratio for my CEC would be up in the 7:1 range. Will I get there, I don't know, but will be happy getting that number higher than it currently is. There are other things that could come into play when pushing the Ca. I do think that the BCSR approach is more important on a higher CEC soil and less so on a sandy soil mixture. What is the impact of that ratio? With a low Ca:Mg ratio, the soil will be chemically compacted, tighter, slower to drain, and less oxygen will get into the soil. Root growth can be restricted. I was happy to see roots at the bottom of a 10" core I pulled on 6/2. I have never seen that on my property, even before renovating. Part of that could just be the result of growing good grass though. I pay attention to the roots, the only hiccup I need to get past in lawn care is some bouts in past years with summerpatch. I would like to get back to being fungicide free as well. Working on the soil chemical balance has plant health benefits and when those numbers get better(hopefully including PH), I will give no fungicides another go. Sorry for the long reply. It is something I feel is important. Even if some may disagree. Here is a couple pics of a 10" core where the roots were poking out the bottom. Took a good amount of cores checking soil moisture that day.


Thanks for the repsonse Pete! There is a lot to unpack there (for me anyway). Looks like I have a little researching to do


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## ROJ_3030 (Sep 28, 2019)

Hey Pete,

Are you applying Propiconazonal as a preventive measure? If so, are you basing this on past experience or model predictions of fungal disease?

I was rocked by some rust disease last fall and would like to avoid that again if possible.

Killer turf as always!
-Jacob


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@ROJ_3030, the fungicide plan this year is based on seeing summerpatch the last 2 seasons. Its part of a whole approach of using ammonium sulfate more, Manganese, trying to be better with irrigation, and trying to grow better roots.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Applied propiconazole with a pinch of AMS in the tank as my continuing preventative fungicide plan for summerpatch. Ran the sprinklers for a couple minutes before I started spraying and then triggered the irrigation to start watering it in before I finished the whole yard. Basically once I was past spraying everywhere the first zone waters, the irrigation was immediately triggered. I am watering it in with .2" of water spread across 2 full irrigation cycles.

NW Illinois has not seen any rain since 6/10. Also during that time, daily ET has averaged .25" each day. It has been dry, and area lawns/landscapes are drying up. I can be my biggest lawn critic. Always thinking of ways to make it better. Always seeing spots that need work. If I take the blinders off and look at the neighboring lawns, I think its doing ok.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Just ok?! Out of curiosity what're the things you are seeing that need work?

How many years has it been since you did the reno?


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Pete1313 said:


> Applied propiconazole with a pinch of AMS in the tank as my continuing preventative fungicide plan for summerpatch. Ran the sprinklers for a couple minutes before I started spraying and then triggered the irrigation to start watering it in before I finished the whole yard. Basically once I was past spraying everywhere the first zone waters, the irrigation was immediately triggered. I am watering it in with .2" of water spread across 2 full irrigation cycles.
> 
> NW Illinois has not seen any rain since 6/10. Also during that time, daily ET has averaged .25" each day. It has been dry, and area lawns/landscapes are drying up. I can be my biggest lawn critic. Always thinking of ways to make it better. Always seeing spots that need work. If I take the blinders off and look at the neighboring lawns, I think its doing ok.


Looking great Pete! It looks like your lawn shed its skin and left it next door.

The color difference is striking.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

@Pete1313 Wow.. That looks really good.. How much water are you putting down? We haven't had any rain in 10 days and it has been quite hot and full sun every day. I have been needing to run the sprinklers every 2nd day for ~50 min per zone to keep things in check..


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@synergy0852, the renovation was in 2017. There are always things that need work. I need to do some more spot leveling, some high wear areas could use some attention, the trees need trimming, etc.

@rob13psu, thanks!

@Stuofsci02 I've had to lean on the irrigation this week as well, 23,989 gallons to be exact. Good thing I'm on a well!



Here is a screenshot of my irrigation log as well as calculated ET deficits per zone. I currently have the deficits set at 90% of ETo(KBG crop coefficient or Kc can be anywhere from .8-1.0 depending). 300 minutes of irrigation = 1" of water. The 30 minutes(.1") on 6/12 was to rinse off the foliar app the next morning. The 150 minute(.5") ones were just to water. The 60 minute(.2") one yesterday was to work propiconazole into the soil. Lmk if you need more info. :thumbsup:


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

@Pete1313 Thanks Pete.. That is very good information. Looks like you are putting down more water than me. I need to do an audit, but my guess is 50 min does 1/3".


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@Stuofsci02 no problem! Get that audit done. Its important, especially during dry spells such as this.


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

Hey Pete,
Just wondering why you decided to change the crop coefficient from 0.8 to 0.9. I know it's been dry lately, but was there anything you were seeing that made you think the turf needed more irrigation than you were giving it?


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@Zip-a-Dee-Zee, maybe?? I've been bouncing that .8-.9 number around a bit and have been taking soil samples checking for soil moisture as well. I have been using my log as kind of a baseline as when to start checking for soil moisture.

Sorry for the late reply. We just returned from a small vacation.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Another T-nex tank mix on 6/28. .2 oz/M rate. Applied another summer patch preventative fungicide round on 7/3. Tank mixed Azoxystrobin + imidacloprid + AMS. Immediately watered in afterwards with .2" of irrigation. Imidacloprid is for grub prevention. Sprayed the susceptible trees/plants with Sevin today to prevent damage from beetles. Trimmed the one birch tree that was overgrown. Snapped some pics from today's morning mow. 




Received 1.03" of rain 12 hrs before that mow. Before that would have meant waiting a day to mow. If I had the old metal 2" grooved deere rollers on, they would have been completely caked with mud/debris. These golfco ones are completely clean. When they do pic up mud, it clears off on its own. They stay cleaner then the rear solid steel rollers do. Impressive. Very happy. Anyone with a triplex, get them, period.



Not seeing any summer patch yet. Would have been here by now, so the fungicide plan must be working so far. Checked 2" soil temps one afternoon a couple days ago and it was right around 90°F. Have a big event/party on Saturday. Lots of yard games and lots of traffic will be on the yard. Might let the T-nex rebound, haven't applied the next round yet and was due today. Might take a play from @HoosierLawnGnome and try and maintain the rest of the year without T-nex. I'm still mowing @ 7/8" and have it still at this height for how it will play for Saturday. Will bump it up some afterwards.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Looks shmick!
What is your planned fungicide rotation. Haven't seen many going beyond azoxy/propi combo and maybe 3336. Velista, iprodione...


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

Looking solid, @Pete1313 ! Mclovin it!

Do you run your reels through puddles?

I get walnuts stuck in mine. Very annoying.

I'll post in my thread some observations.

I love PGR aesthetics but couldnt justify the expense for wha i got at my taller heights and what it takes to keep up with it.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Thanks @Babameca. The rotation is azoxy/propi/azoxy/propi. I'm only applying for summer patch prevention. Might pick up some Thiophanate-methyl maybe for next year. On a large yard, you need to be budget conscious for products. An app of azoxy or propi is only ~$30 for my 38k sq ft. Do the cost analysis on some other products and you will quickly say no thank you!

Thanks @HoosierLawnGnome. No puddles, and thankfully no walnuts. I appreciate your feedback in regards to PGR. :thumbsup: Whether primo or proxy, there are some things I like about them and some things I don't.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

@Pete1313 Two questions if you have time. I know you did your first app of azoxy on 5/21 but how often did you apply the rotation of azoxy/propi after that? And I assume it was at the preventive rate?

Also curious what you don't like about PGR. I think I have a idea what you might say but just wanted to hear your thoughts.

Well I guess that's three questions lol.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Pete1313 Based on domyown prices Azoxy will run at 3$/M and the 'new' Velista at 4.50$ (both at min rates).May be used as a 'releif' app ? Propi is dirt cheap...


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## ROJ_3030 (Sep 28, 2019)

YES!!! Another dose of the Pete's lawn thread crack! haha

I really appreciate seeing a yard of this scale and how you're managing it to get amazing results. Glad to hear you're fungal diseases are staying in check this year.

Keep the updates coming!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> @Pete1313 Two questions if you have time. I know you did your first app of azoxy on 5/21 but how often did you apply the rotation of azoxy/propi after that? And I assume it was at the preventive rate?
> 
> Also curious what you don't like about PGR. I think I have a idea what you might say but just wanted to hear your thoughts.
> 
> Well I guess that's three questions lol.


@SNOWBOB11 I sincerely apologize for the late reply. I keep up on your journal and see you have some spots you suspect might be summer patch. SP can be tricky to diagnose as it could just look like heat/drought stress. Keep an eye on it, but there are only a couple things you can do now to get by. Listened to a podcast this morning with Paul Koch, and is expecting a good year for summer patch in my area.
https://www.turfnet.com/podcasts/rossi/tgh_koch/
This is a good article I like for summer patch tips.
https://www.golfcourseindustry.com/article/disease-digest-51011-hot-tips-summer-patch/

This is my fungicide plan this year.
5/21 - azoxystrobin 22.9% ai 
.77 oz/M (28 day interval)
6/18 - propiconazole 14.3% ai
2.0 oz/M (14 day interval)
7/3 - azoxystrobin 22.9% ai 
.77 oz/M (28 day interval)
Planned
7/31 - propiconazole 14.3% ai
2.0 oz/M (14 day interval)

That should cover the season of summer patch for me. Even if there is some heat after that, the end is near. For summer patch prevention, on the label of azoxy or propi use the low rate on the shorter interval and the high rate on the longer interval. I was worried about 4 oz/M of propi for 28 day interval while I was under t-nex regulation and high heat and is why i split it up into two 14 day low rate apps. If you want some temporary relief from summer patch symptoms now, apply .2 lb/M of N from ammonium sulfate and wash it into the soil. An app of thiophanate-methyl might provide some protection as well. Also irrigate the areas showing symptoms more as the roots will be compromised. I feel like I am rambling a bit, and some of this should go into your journal as well, hope some of this info helps. I'll comment about the PGR question you asked alittle later after work.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

@Pete1313 Wow, that's a really strong regimen there. First summer after my renovation I hit it hard with stuff like you are, I was worried about summer patch on a blueberry monostand, and I had some fairy ring out there.

Since then, I haven't had any summer patch issues, but I get dollar spot in the summer and rust in the fall. I put down a pint of propacanzole 3-4 times a year on an acre, that's about it, other than spot spraying. I have 100 sf that has a decent dollar spot outbreak right now. My opinion is that I'll always have some of it, just a matter of how much.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Babameca said:


> @Pete1313 Based on domyown prices Azoxy will run at 3$/M and the 'new' Velista at 4.50$ (both at min rates).May be used as a 'releif' app ? Propi is dirt cheap...


At prices of $3+/M I would probably not run any fungicides on my larger yard. Luckily I can get azoxystrobin 22.9% at just under $0.98 per ounce, but you need to buy 2.5 gallons of it. The low app rate of .38 oz/M only costs $0.37/M and the higher rate of .77 oz/M only costs $0.75/M per app.



HoosierLawnGnome said:


> @Pete1313 Wow, that's a really strong regimen there. First summer after my renovation I hit it hard with stuff like you are, I was worried about summer patch on a blueberry monostand, and I had some fairy ring out there.
> 
> Since then, I haven't had any summer patch issues, but I get dollar spot in the summer and rust in the fall. I put down a pint of propacanzole 3-4 times a year on an acre, that's about it, other than spot spraying. I have 100 sf that has a decent dollar spot outbreak right now. My opinion is that I'll always have some of it, just a matter of how much.


2018, the first year after renovating, I used a few fungicides for foliar disease prevention only. Saw some spots that i later identified as summer patch. 2019 I was fungicide free to see what I was working with. Saw enough summer patch in 2019 to say, "Nope! Not in 2020!" @Babameca, I'll tag you again here as I saw discussion on @bernstem's journal. Here are some pics of what I saw in regards to summer patch in 2019.









Those pics were taken when the 2" soil temp was 82.8°F. I've hit 90°F once or twice this year already.


Here is a pic of 2 samples I pulled and then washed the roots. Good grass with no symptoms on the left. Bad grass showing symptoms on the right.


I'm not showing any symptoms of summer patch yet and they should start showing up now. The season is far from over though.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

Yeah SP sucks. I was sure I'd get it, but none so far. Dollar spot and rust tho ugggggg. The first year was rough for rust.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Pete1313 said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> > @Pete1313 Two questions if you have time. I know you did your first app of azoxy on 5/21 but how often did you apply the rotation of azoxy/propi after that? And I assume it was at the preventive rate?
> ...


@Pete1313 I really appreciate you taking the time to explain all this. And no rambling at all. Just excellent information which I'm very happy to learn.

I am basically 100 percent sure it's summer patch I have so I'll apply the AMS tomorrow and see if maybe it can help a bit.

It's too late now I feel and the damage has been done but I'll learn from it and act with preventative fungicide next spring.

I also read a couple articles and saw that you as well did a app of magnesium sulfate in the spring. I'll try that as well next year.

I'm going to check out those podcasts you linked to this evening.

Also I'm going to quote your information and put it in my journal so I have easy access to it next year.

Again thanks for the info. Very helpful. :thumbsup:


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

I didn't see Summer Patch the first year after renovating. It showed up on the second year and has been there ever since.

Those are very good examples of summer patch turf symptoms.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Pete1313 Very educative, thanks! I am running in circles...my desease just started showing patches (1-2 inches) but when I pull a plant, ot goes right off. Root is completly gone or fully roted, but few blades are still green with no signs at all and few are simply yellow... Completly puzzled...


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Pete1313 I went thru your 2019 journal and SP problem you've had. I did not see a follow-up how did it go in fall. I am leaning to SP the most I see my yard disease developing. You've said it is early, but considering End of May we maintained mid 90's for a week and June was hotter than July will be, I may be the another guy with this thing...


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@Babameca, the spots closed up in fall. If you suspect it to be summer patch, give it .2 lbs/M from ammonium sulfate. It will help acidify the rhizospere and prevent the damage from getting worse. Then feed it good in fall to close any holes up.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Pete1313 Thanks. I am listening to the webinar for the soil-borne fungus (link from your journal) and it also answers another of my posts about application methods. Very helpful!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Babameca said:


> @Pete1313 Thanks. I am listening to the webinar for the soil-borne fungus (link from your journal) and it also answers another of my posts about application methods. Very helpful!


No problem! Sorry for the late response as I was out of town the last 5 days. I assume you are referring to this webinar,
https://www.turfnet.com/webinar_archives.html/soil-borne-diseases-a-dirty-problem-r183/
I really enjoyed that one as well!


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Pete1313 Yes! Love it! Thanks again.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Update. Let the HOC go up some and am currently at 1.25". Have not applied T-nex since 6/28 and am rebounding, although growth is not too bad. 4 days between my last 2 mows, both at 1.25".



High humidity most days with high nighttime lows. More warm, high humidity weather coming this weekend. As a result, disease pressure is still high. Shortened the interval on my fungicide apps and decided to go with a back-to-back of azoxy(7/3 and 7/21).



Seeing a couple spots out there isolated to the west side of the property that are pythium. Pic of the area of concern. Hard to tell in pics, but you can see a pattern where it tracked in low spots and following the flow of water.







Most spots are recovering already and most likely came thru end of June/early July when I had only propiconazole down (which doesnt control pythium). TBH it was hard to see at a lower HOC(thought I saw something), but now that i am higher, you can see where it was at. I can probably pinpoint the daytime warm rains on 6/29 and 6/30 that caused the spread.

Timed the azoxy app with a passing evening shower, and finished getting it into the soil with irrigation. No evidence of summerpatch yet. Enjoying not having to spray a PGR. Here are a bunch of pics taken yesterday of the majority of the yard that is looking clean.











Look close in this pic and you can see 8 spots in a pattern where a mechanical bull setup gouged 8-10" deep depressions during an event we had.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Question, is there a way to tell summer patch from a cat or dog spot?

A lot of the photos you posted on July 13th look like what i fought back at the beginning of July.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Question, is there a way to tell summer patch from a cat or dog spot?
> 
> A lot of the photos you posted on July 13th look like what i fought back at the beginning of July.


Yeah. Although probably not the best from my photos, the whole area surrounding all those spots gave off a drought like appearance as well despite soil that had good moisture. There are the areas that are dead, but even the good grass between those spots was off. It is easy to see especially when you are looking at the grass when the sun is low and directly in front of you that there was something wrong. Hope that helps alittle. The dog spots that i get throughout the season look different and alot of the time have a ring of lush green grass right around them.


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## Butter (Nov 14, 2017)

Mechanical bull? Did you say mechanical bull?
So not only your lawn is on a different level but your parties are on a different level too! Awesome!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@Butter haha! Yeah, the mechanical bull was a blast! We also setup this game across my yard and the neighbor's called "yard/soccer golf". 18 holes, $10 a person, and winner takes the pot. There was 16 neighbors that played this year. You roll a soccer ball and try and get it into a hula hoop. Mulch is a hazard, so is concrete and neighboring yards. With all the elevation changes and short grass the game is challenging. 18 holes and then the top 4 make the championship round. Pool, loud music, karaoke.. the second weekend in July is always a blast here.

Mechanical bull.


Last years champ(next door neighbor) sporting the traveling trophy. Winner needs to add something tacky to it each year.


Hole 6 teebox


Course setup


Championship scores(I'm the Pete that tied for 3rd)


Music entertainment


The yard golf tourney is a main reason why i maintained the lawn shorter thru this year. I really enjoy the 1.25" HOC but for ball roll and challenge the grass needs to be tighter.


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## Butter (Nov 14, 2017)

Awesome! Looks like a lot of fun and I can tell from the last pic that you enjoy the finest beer available! 
The most important micro nutrient of all, Busch/Busch Light!
The turf grass looks amazing as always!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@Butter thanks! Haha, not my flavor (similar though as I think i was drinking bud light), but I have learned to drink the cheaper beer when you are out in the sun all day. Switched to mixed drinks when the karaoke was moved to the basement in the evening due to a pop up shower.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Calculated rebound is at 34%. Checked the lawn yesterday when throwing my son batting practice and looks like it will need a mow on Friday evening. 3 days between mows. Growth is not too crazy, but can definitely tell it has picked up a bit in the past day. I'm liking the look of the growth/color/quality right now.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

The wife and my son just caught a crop duster doing an aerial application in a field near our house. They have been in the area alot this past week. Only corn and soy fields near us. @GrassFarmer, what are they spraying this time of year?


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## GrassFarmer (Sep 21, 2017)

Probably fungicide but could also be dropping dry fertilizer for nitrogen on corn


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@GrassFarmer thanks for the info!


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

@Pete1313 3 days is my necessary mowing frequency for my unregulated stand. 4 is manageable.

Ive been mowing every 2 days the last week or two and its probably too frequent. Ive noticed the grass is getting matted and im seeing some tire tracks. A little wetness make it worse.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

HoosierLawnGnome said:


> @Pete1313 3 days is my necessary mowing frequency for my unregulated stand. 4 is manageable.
> 
> Ive been mowing every 2 days the last week or two and its probably too frequent. Ive noticed the grass is getting matted and im seeing some tire tracks. A little wetness make it worse.


 Good to know. I mowed again today, so 3 days, and then 2 days between mows. I didn't need to mow today, but didn't want to mow tomorrow. It is rebounding and the calculated rebound is at its highest.



Looking forward to seeing the mowing frequency when the rebound is over. TBH, between this property an my last one, ive been growing bewitched since 2014 but have very limited experience maintaining it without trinexapac-ethyl. We will compare notes later in the fall on mowing frequency and see if Bewitched lives up to its claim of less mowing when compared to blueberry.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Also curious what you don't like about PGR. I think I have a idea what you might say but just wanted to hear your thoughts.


@SNOWBOB11, I haven't forgot about this question. I want to get a good sampling of maintaining Bewitched without PGR to compare what I like and dislike.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Pete1313 said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> > Also curious what you don't like about PGR. I think I have a idea what you might say but just wanted to hear your thoughts.
> ...


Cool pete thanks. The main reason I asked this question is because I feel you are trying something that I have thought to try since last year. This is the third year I've been using T-NEX and while it certainly has its place throughout the growing season I think during summer it can hurt things as well. The grass already grows slower when it's very hot I feel if you can mow often enough and not let growth out of control it can be better to have unregulated turf.

I've been hesitant to go full on no PGR and have continued to mess around with rates but seeing you and Hoosierlawngnome go no PGR made me try it as well.



I am starting to see some rebound but the grass looks very nice right now. Honestly if it wasn't for the summer patch area out front this would be the best my lawn has looked since I renovated it to a Bewitched Monostand.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Took some pics from a mow this morning.











Beat the heat, got out early, and when done my son requested batting practice before his game.



He's been practicing alot and is getting a decent swing for a 7 year old. I don't force it on him, but this year he has really been craving the practice. Almost everyday he wants to hit balls.



He told me "Dad, I like this height of cut better." Me too boy! Me too! Currenty cutting at 1.25". 
Similar to Wrigley HOC. I maintain the lawn the way I do so the kids can enjoy it, and they make good use of it. Warm day today, low 90's with 75°F dew point. No PGR or iron since 6/28. Enjoying not being as much of a slave to the sprayer. Might do an iron spray at some point. Rebounding now. Here are a couple more pics taken after his game.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> > SNOWBOB11 said:
> ...


It is something I thought about trying last year as well. Unfortunately when I was still staring at 1.5 gallons of T-nex left last summer, it kind of pushes you to keep going. The bottle is alittle emptier now . The one thing me, you and @HoosierLawnGnome have is great cutting units to get clean cuts at a higher HOC. I want to maintain in this HOC range and keep my mowing to every 3-4 days. I think this is possible as long as I control my N use. I'm liking what I am seeing with how the grass has responded so far. I will comment again after I spend some time maintaining after the rebound is over and look forward to what you think and see as well.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

I'm sure you have posted it before and it was probably in your big reno thread and I forgot but what is your spray setup? Pull behind? I assume you don't backpack that much lawn?


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@ksturfguy, here is my setup.
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=8101#p8101
It is a good setup and have gotten pretty accurate and efficient thru the years.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Pete1313 said:


> @ksturfguy, here is my setup.
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=8101#p8101
> It is a good setup and have gotten pretty accurate and efficient thru the years.


Thanks. I remember seeing that now. I'm thinking about spraying my prodiamine and a few other products next year on my 20k lawn. Will probably just break it down into sections and try to use my backpack but if we ever move and get a bigger property I'll have to transition to a setup like yours on a lawn tractor or 4-wheeler or something.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Pete1313 It looks awesome in the heat! I wished I can go taller. Switching to a grooved front roller that will give the that 1+'' HOC. To get out of regulation, don't you smash rates instead (and slightly space them out)? I always thought with abrupt change in growth speed (based on graphs for Tnex), that may stress the lawn.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

The dog days of summer. It has to end sometime, right? The story this month has been the lack of rain combined with some hot days with highs above 90°F and lows staying above 70°F. I received 0.81" of rain on 8/10, but that has been it as far as rainfall since 7/26. Combined ETo was 5.72" over that 7/26-current stretch and I irrigated a total of 4.6". The irrigation has been getting a workout (over 30,000 gallons a week). There have been a few spots near the street that I have had to drag a hose. This weather really tests the irrigations uniformity, and am impressed on how it is performing.



I did another round of gypsum at the end of July, and put down an app of AMS/SOP last week.

The lawns in the area are in a deep sleep. The way I maintain the lawn really stands out in times like these.

A couple pics this morning highlighting the neighbor's dormancy. 






A couple more from yesterday.




This is an area I dont take a pic often, but it is a strip of bewitched in a challenging, shady spot. Covered by tall trees, it might see an hour of direct sun each day. It doesn't get any traffic, and is surviving.


Some older pics from 8/19










A couple from 8/16




A few from 8/9


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## mribbens (Jul 13, 2018)

Amazing with the lack of rain for Northern IL, are you still laying down small doses of PGR?


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

mribbens said:


> Amazing with the lack of rain for Northern IL, are you still laying down small doses of PGR?


My last app of T-nex was on 6/28. I'm not sure if i will go back on it at some point this fall or not. TBH, I'm kind of playing around and trying a few things. One thing i worry about with no T-nex is a 7 day vacation coming up in September.



Babameca said:


> @Pete1313 To get out of regulation, don't you smash rates instead (and slightly space them out)? I always thought with abrupt change in growth speed (based on graphs for Tnex), that may stress the lawn.


Sorry I forgot about this one @Babameca. That is a good strategy/advice. There are times where that quick increase in growth is beneficial though and not terrible for the grass.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

I forgot to add about a month ago @g-man pointed out to me some chlorosis he saw in some trees in my front yard. They are some of the ones in the mulch rings by the street.









I feed all the ornamentals in the yard with a biosolid type product and don't have any issues, but those empty tree rings near the street get nothing besides what the lawn receives. So mostly nothing as the tree roots don't absorb any of the foliar N and iron sulfate. I will change how I maintain in regards to those trees in the future and will probably add some biosolids to those areas when I feed the ornamentals.

One thing i want to start playing around with is some chelated iron in my sprays as well to keep some of that iron available in my soil. I went on a hunt for some Feature and was able to source some from a location within a half hour from me. Best of all it was only $2.40/lb ($7.20/bag) out the door. So at that price I bought a few cases and will be set for a while. Look forward to playing with it a bit this fall, and then some more next year.


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

Looking great pete! nice score on the feature, thats a great deal.


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## DiggingHoles (Nov 5, 2018)

Have you tried Lesco 12-0-0 With 6% liquid chelated iron? I've started using this year and am happy with results. At $40 for 2.5 gallons it is $0.75/K at label rate of 6oz/K.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

ABC123 said:


> Looking great pete! nice score on the feature, thats a great deal.


Thanks @ABC123. Your grass and 220SL are looking sweet in those videos as well. I do miss that mower.

When I got a call back for the Feature quote the guy said he could sell it for "two forty". Originally I thought he meant $240 for a 15 bag(45lb) case. Was a little shocked when he said it was $2.40/lb, so right at $108/case.



DiggingHoles said:


> Have you tried Lesco 12-0-0 With 6% liquid chelated iron? I've started using this year and am happy with results. At $40 for 2.5 gallons it is $0.75/K at label rate of 6oz/K.


I have not, but looks like a good product as well. I mainly use iron sulfate heptahydrate, but is only good for foliar with my soil Ph. At a high 4oz/M rate, the cost is only $0.08/M.

At the price i was able to get feature at, the cost is $0.15/M at the low 1oz/M rate or $0.30/M at the 2oz/M rate.

I wanted to try and source some Feature since it has some EDDHA iron in it and a higher percentage of that iron will remain soluble in my soil. I will still use iron sulfate, but want to mix some Feature apps in as well.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I've been doing FEature + FS (with CA) lately. I like the combo. That's a great price.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

g-man said:


> I've been doing FEature + FS (with CA) lately. I like the combo. That's a great price.


I'm sure i will be playing around mixing the two before I know it as well.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Was able to meet @Vtx531 this past Saturday and picked up an aerator he was selling. It is a Jacobsen/Ryan GA-24.
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=22502
The way it was currently set up was not going to be the best fit for my yard. It had the twin tine holders with 5/8" solid tines and no turf-guard. The setup caused some damage when I demoed it on his property. He had another GA-24 aerator he was working on and I noticed it had the quad tine holders. I negotiated for those, the turf gaurd-setup that he had in the garage as well as a set of .425" ID side-eject tines and a set of .3125" solid tines. The turf-gaurd that he had was only for the 12 tine setup, but the brackets alone are a couple hundred to buy so it saved me some $$.

Today I played around and got it all setup and ready to go for tomorrow.


I overnighted a new 24 tine turf-gaurd from RRproducts, and a few other misc. Parts.

Top view of the quad tine holder.


Here it is with the new turf-gaurd and side-eject tines installed. @Vtx531 in this pic you can see the washers above the tine holders and some washers above the springs that we talked about.


Ofcourse i had to test it out. Soil is a tad too wet but gave it a go anyway. Tomorrow the moisture should be just about right. Results were impressive. 7% affected surface area with this tine setup.




I'll drag the cores back in tomorrow when I aerate, but raked them up today to see how the turf handled the aeration. No heave/turf damage and clean holes, even with the tight tine spacing.


I stuck my fingers in the holes to enlarge them so you can see the pattern, but if you look around that area the holes are clean and small and cause minimal damage. 


I then mowed the lawn down a bit to 13/16" and marked the sprinkler heads. I'll take a few pics and talk about the process tomorrow.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Nice machine Pete. And it looks like you now have it set up well. No damage to the turf around the holes. Looking forward to seeing all that your planning to do with it. :thumbup:


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

@Pete1313 saw your comments earlier in this thread about front roller for KBG, would something like this for my GM1000 work well for me? I plan on keeping my KBG between 20-22mm.



its 2.5" diameter


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## KoopHawk (May 28, 2019)

Very cool machine!


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## ROJ_3030 (Sep 28, 2019)

Very cool Pete! Always love seeing the hardware side of your operation!

On a some what related note: do you apply a pre-m in the fall? If so, do you core aerate beforehand? I've heard conflicting opinions on core aerating and causing potential weed issues.


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## Vtx531 (Jul 1, 2019)

Looks like you got it setup real nice. Thanks for the update, nice meeting you and I look forward to seeing what you can do with this thing. Neat to see it with the quad side eject tines and turfguard.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Nice machine Pete. And it looks like you now have it set up well. No damage to the turf around the holes. Looking forward to seeing all that your planning to do with it. :thumbup:


Thanks @SNOWBOB11!



Di3soft said:


> @Pete1313 saw your comments earlier in this thread about front roller for KBG, would something like this for my GM1000 work well for me? I plan on keeping my KBG between 20-22mm.
> 
> 
> 
> its 2.5" diameter


No experience with that roller or the GM1000, but it looks like that roller will be a better fit. Deeper, wider spaced grooves is what you want. Maybe check with other Toro members to see if there is a bigger roller available.



KoopHawk said:


> Very cool machine!


Thanks! I probably looked crazy using it yesterday, but had a blast!



ROJ_3030 said:


> Very cool Pete! Always love seeing the hardware side of your operation!
> 
> On a some what related note: do you apply a pre-m in the fall? If so, do you core aerate beforehand? I've heard conflicting opinions on core aerating and causing potential weed issues.


Thanks! To answer your questions, yes and yes.



Vtx531 said:


> Looks like you got it setup real nice. Thanks for the update, nice meeting you and I look forward to seeing what you can do with this thing. Neat to see it with the quad side eject tines and turfguard.


Thanks! Nice to meet you as well! The way it is set up now is a fairly aggressive aeration at 7.09% affected surface area, but think my yard needed it and will post some pics of the process in a bit. As you know, this machine is quite adjustable with tine setup, so it would be easy to reduce the affected surface area in the future if i choose.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Here are some pics from yesterday morning before I began aerating. HOC is at 13/16" and it was dropped down some from my usual 1" to make dragging in the cores alittle easier. Some would think i am crazy for tearing up a yard that looks like this, but I feel it was needed and will talk about why I thought so at the end.









Aerated the whole yard. Holey moley, that was alot of cores! Actually I was alittle intimidated and worried when looking back at how many there were when I was done!









A pic of the hole spacing when i raked back some cores.



Some numbers on the aeration. The affected surface area was 7.09% and it appeared to be pulling cores about 2.5" deep. To put that into perspective, I just pulled out 2700 sq ft of my 38,000 lawn and said I didn't want it anymore. I just deposited about 20 cubic yards of cores across the whole surface(enough soil to cover the whole area to a depth .177") that i would need to drag in. You can see with those numbers, why I would be intimidated when looking back at the cores.

Due to the aerating taking a bit longer combined with a good day to dry out the cores i was alittle late to drag in the first area i aerated so it took a little longer to drag them in. In the future I might aerate half of the yard, then drag that area, then repeat for the other half of the yard. I managed to get done dragging, and then ran the mower across the lawn(still at 13/16" HOC) to pickup any leftover debris and finished right before dark.

Here are a bunch of pics from the next morning after the process. I would of loved to irrigate it in over night, but withheld until I get a dose of pre-m down.





















The dragging of cores surprisingly does an ok job of finding low spots in my yard. In those spots some of the cores were deposited and didn't break apart as much when dragging. This morning I went out and dragged those few spots around some to make sure the grass will grow thru. Lots of little hills and dips on the property to trap some of the cores. I will repeat the raking process as needed as the grass grows back up and will mow back at my normal HOC of 1" when needed.

I then cleaned up the equipment today. Cutting heads getting cleaned,



A side note, a pic of the wear on my bedknives. They will get replaced this off-season.



Aerator all cleaned up and ready for storage.



I do plan on using it at various times throughout next year on trouble spots/heavily trafficked areas, but will only aerate the whole yard in the fall. When i went over some of the trouble spots/trafficked areas yesterday, it was easy to tell where they were as the aerator was bucking some on those spots from the compacted soil.

Aeration is debatable, why do I do it? One, my yard is a neighborhood playground. There is an impressive amount of traffic on a daily bases. Seemingly everyday the yard host a neighborhood pickup game of baseball and will have a dozen kids running around all afternoon/evening. I love it, but you can especially see where some of the play is focused as those areas will struggle similar to a soccer goal. I have instructed the kids to rotate the positions where they setup their fields, and that helps some, but will need to aerate some of those focused play areas alittle more and will probably rake and remove those cores when I do.

Besides the typical benefits of removing cores for aeration, the second, and probably more important, reason I aerate and drag is to thin out the turf. I removed 2700 sq ft of my lawn because it was too thick and that causes issues, especially at a lower HOC. The turf gets puffy and causes some mowing as well as playability issues. It also doesn't look as healthy when it gets too thick. Some would say it needed an aggressive verticut. That would have worked as well, but this process resets the grass, gives it space to breath and has the other benefits of aeration all rolled into one process.

Left to due today is spray the pre-m and will add some N to the tank. Then sit back and watch it recover.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

When you replace the bedknife, I'm interested to know what is your current reel diameter.

Cool to see the aeration process. Did you notice soil differences in the cores between areas? Like roots/color/thatch layer?


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

Nice work as usual, Pete. One question: how are you calculating the affected surface area to be 7.09%? Is there a formula you're using to determine that?


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

Zip-a-Dee-Zee said:


> Nice work as usual, Pete. One question: how are you calculating the affected surface area to be 7.09%? Is there a formula you're using to determine that?


Interested to know this as well.

Also you mentioned that once it gets too thick it affects mowing and playability, I assume it's the same that happens with bentgrass on greens when it gets "spongy"?

The other question that I had is that you put down a decent amount of soil amendments, would putting a quality topsoil or sand help some if you removed cores and put that down. I understand that's a lot more work though.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Awesome work!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

g-man said:


> When you replace the bedknife, I'm interested to know what is your current reel diameter.
> 
> Cool to see the aeration process. Did you notice soil differences in the cores between areas? Like roots/color/thatch layer?


The current diameter of all 3 of them is right around 4.94". I will measure them again once they are sharpened in the off season.

The main differences I noticed between cores were around the maple trees where the machine was strong enough to pull cores right out of maple roots and deposit the wood cores on the surface and where I filled low spots in the past with darker, non-native soil. Those cores were significantly darker.



Zip-a-Dee-Zee said:


> Nice work as usual, Pete. One question: how are you calculating the affected surface area to be 7.09%? Is there a formula you're using to determine that?


To calculate this number, you need a couple specs/measurements from your aerator. First you need to know how many holes it pulls per square foot. To calculate that take 144(sq inches in a foot) and then divide it by your tine spacing(aerator hole spacing. 2×2, 4×4, etc.)

How i have this machine setup, it pulls 72 cores per sq foot. 2"×1" spacing.
Calculated by,

144÷(2×1) = 72 cores sq ft

Then you need to know your tine inside diameter(size of core being pulled). My tines are .425". With that number you calculate the area of each hole being punched. Think back to geometry, π × r². The area of each hole being removed is calculated,

3.14×.2125"×.2125" = .1418" area removed/hole

Take (.1418"×72)÷144 = 7.09%

There may be a more simplified way to calculate. Let me know if you have questions or need more info.



uts said:


> Also you mentioned that once it gets too thick it affects mowing and playability, I assume it's the same that happens with bentgrass on greens when it gets "spongy"?
> 
> The other question that I had is that you put down a decent amount of soil amendments, would putting a quality topsoil or sand help some if you removed cores and put that down. I understand that's a lot more work though.


Yeah, spots were getting spongy/puffy. Crowns go alittle sideways and elongate compared to other areas.

Regarding your amendment question. It would be a perfect opportunity to remove the cores and back-fill. Obviously removing my cores is not going to happen though. Maybe a small project area for a putting green down the line? 🤔



ksturfguy said:


> Awesome work!


Thanks!


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

That is the best aeration job I've ever seen!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Sinclair said:


> That is the best aeration job I've ever seen!


Thanks! I've seen better on the course, but is the best this "one man show" can do!

Pre-m and N down yesterday. Watered in with .4" of irrigation. Beautiful day today, sunny, low 60's and breezy. Water pushing down, cool breeze letting air into the surface, you can almost hear all the grass taking a collective exhale. The lawn feels significantly different under foot compared to edges the aerator couldn't get. The water did it good. Recovery should be quick. Some pics of the backyard this morning.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

2.5 weeks since aerating. Recovered well. Happy how it turned out. Few pics from today.











Couple more rounds of N, the usual fall clean up, irrigation blow out... 2020 will be closing down soon. I like where the lawn is at this fall.


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## DiggingHoles (Nov 5, 2018)

Amazing as usual Pete. Question for you...if you were to do your renovation all over again would you do a monostand again? Would you stay with Bewitched? I'm torn between Midnight monostand or blending PRG in with it. I have 10 months to decide I guess. Lol!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@DiggingHoles yes to both questions. I've renovated a few lawns now with 100% bewitched and it works really well in my climate. Whether it is maintained at high or low HOCs.


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## DiggingHoles (Nov 5, 2018)

Appreciate the feedback! Your lawn journal has been an inspiration to step up my lawn game the last couple of years. I was impressed with your lawn pre-reno and the effort you put into it since has certainly paid off.


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

@Pete1313 since.you use some great machines for the lawn, I was wondering what do you use for snow?... I know I used the S word...


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@uts, nothing too fancy. It's a 24" Troy-Bilt. I always used to hand shovel my other homes. Bought it back in 2016 when we moved in since the driveway is alot bigger than my previous homes.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Not too good on updates this year, but here are a few pics from this month.

These two are from Oct 10th




This one was Oct 22nd


This was a pic of my irrigation meter taken on Oct 14th. If you do the conversion, the irrigation has used 1.4 million gallons since I rehabbed it in 2017. Kind of an eye opening number and is something I need to work on reducing. It was a tough year with limited rainfall. The constant pressure/variable speed well pump has done a good job getting the water out to the sprinklers efficiently and reliably.


Here is a pic from this evening. Poor pic with post sunset lighting, but you can see the lawn is covered with leaf litter this time of year.


Working on getting things closed up for the year. Winterized the pool on Sunday. Next weekend will be the yard and irrigation. The grass is hardening off and getting ready for winter. A couple more leaf cleanup mows and then it will be done until 2021.


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

Pete1313 said:


> @uts, nothing too fancy. It's a 24" Troy-Bilt. I always used to hand shovel my other homes. Bought it back in 2016 when we moved in since the driveway is alot bigger than my previous homes.


Cool. Considering you already have the x590 have you thought maybe running a snow blower with it?

Btw great fall pictures!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@uts I looked at them, but decided I didn't need that attachment.


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## ROJ_3030 (Sep 28, 2019)

Would you mind sharing your soil log if you don't mind? I find it interesting to see how you run your program throughout the year.

Also, what are the slender arborvitae looking trees near your play set?

As always, looks incredible and what a killer way to end the season! Your color and overall consistency always blows my mind and especially on this scale.


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## UFG8RMIKE (Apr 21, 2019)

Where's Pete's 2022 lawn journal?


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

Sorry @UFG8RMIKE no real 2022 journal this year. I made a post of my inputs to date in my 2021 journal and will continue to update there when I have time.
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=484710#p484710

In regards to your well irrigation PM. If ok, we can chat here incase others want to see or add advice. Here is the post of my setup you referenced.
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=8125#p8125

When they are done drilling your well and we know some specs (water level/recovery) then we can start talking about pump and irrigation setup. I have a constant pressure well setup and would highly recommend.


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