# Poa A or KBG? The burning question.



## MarkAguglia (Jul 13, 2017)

I'm assuming Poa, but I looked up photos of both and one looks like KBG (#1) and the other looks like Poa (#2). They are right next to each other and essentially all over my entire lawn.

#1

#2

Both


----------



## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

I'd say you are correct. First pic good grass second pic evil grass.


----------



## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> I'd say you are correct. First pic good grass second pic evil grass.


Agreed.


----------



## Tsmith (Aug 11, 2017)

That's correct, first is KBG going to seed as the seedheads are tighter together and there is a tough stalk usually there too which I think I see in yours.

POA Annua is more limp and usually breaks off like a cross with the seedheads at ends.

Here is a side by side with KBG on left and POA on the right...that's unfortunately not my lawn in the background.


----------



## MarkAguglia (Jul 13, 2017)

So I have both all over. Haha, guess maybe half is good! Cool to know I have KBG mixed in my lawn. I'll probably just ride out the Poa. Maybe this is what I get for not using a Pre-M?


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

MarkAguglia said:


> So I have both all over. Haha, guess maybe half is good! Cool to know I have KBG mixed in my lawn. I'll probably just ride out the Poa. Maybe this is what I get for not using a Pre-M?


You mean pre-m early fall...

Even early August


----------



## MarkAguglia (Jul 13, 2017)

I've never used a Pre M before. Would fall pre M prevent Poa A?


----------



## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Yes


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

POA a geminate in the fall, so spring apps do nothing for it.

So you need both, fall and spring


----------



## MarkAguglia (Jul 13, 2017)

kolbasz said:


> POA a geminate in the fall, so spring apps do nothing for it.
> 
> So you need both, fall and spring


I'd love to do both and all but really...how then do you seed ever? I have bare spots that develop over winter that I fix in spring, and then bare spots and bad areas that develop over the course of summer that I fix in fall. Had been planning another overseeding. Can't seed and do a pre emergent. Maybe it's all about strict timing?


----------



## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

MarkAguglia said:


> So I have both all over. Haha, guess maybe half is good! Cool to know I have KBG mixed in my lawn. I'll probably just ride out the Poa. Maybe this is what I get for not using a Pre-M?


Mature seed heads of annua and KBG and even TTTF look very similar - panicles. To my eye KBG seed heads are a little more dense than annua and seem to mature later but unless they're side by side it can be hard to tell.

Leaf color can be another clue - annua is generally a lighter green and you can see it when just looking at the lawn. Tenacity will light up annua but it takes several applications to kill it (if it even will). Annua will produce seed heads even when distressed by tenacity so even that can be kind of pointless. Another clue is annua will die in late Spring / early Summer heat. If what you have survives through Summer, it's not annua.

Where I am we have a similar catch 22. Fall overseed is pretty much a must every year. Some spring seed touch up is not unusual, especially in the first year or so of a lawn establishment.

I've never really been able to come up with a good solution. Mechanical removal of annua in the spring before it seeds tends to work, but that can be a lot of labor and if there are already large patches, generally not practical overall.


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

MarkAguglia said:


> kolbasz said:
> 
> 
> > POA a geminate in the fall, so spring apps do nothing for it.
> ...


depends on the patches and the location of the poa a.

If they are 2 different spots, do not treat the areas you want to overseed. Or, over seed in the fall and be ready with tenacity in the spring. Or, over seed in the fall and spring and deal with crabgrass and poa while you try to build density.

For me, I have not had a fall overseed for a few years because I rather deal with thinner grass than the poa a. I do not have bare spots as you say, so it is not as big of a deal to me, but in the end you can chose one or the other.

If it was me, depending on the size of the spots you are seeding, I would just not put pre-m on those areas, treat the rest. contain the poa a as much as possible.


----------

