# What does your Pre-Em program look like?



## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

I'm interested to hear other's pre emergent strategies. What do you apply, how much, and when do you apply it? The standard around here seems to be 2 apps of Prodiamine in spring/fall at the yearly max. For those that add additional chemicals- do you feel you are getting better overall weed control?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I apply Prodiamine at half the annual max in mid-March, then again in mid-September. I have been pleased with the results.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

I have a shorter growing season. I use prodiamine. Half in spring and half in fall is plenty. If you need more, consider using dithiopyr, bensulide, pendimethalin, oryzalin, simazine, oxadiazon.


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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

A lot of applicators here in the Atlanta area (and I assume this is the majority) use Indaziflam in their Pre-em program. If they are using both, you have to assume the added cost is worth it to them, but I'm wondering if the additional chemical usage really provides that much more of a benefit compared to a standardized Prodiamine program.


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## smurg (May 30, 2018)

Prodiamine yearly limit split into two applications. First app is determined by soil temperature and the second is 6 months later. I put the first app down yesterday as this week will be quite warm.


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

Feb 15 - March 15 Prodiamine 4L at 24 oz/ acre and Princep 32 oz/ acre

May 1- 31 Specticle FLO at 3oz/ acre

Sept 1 - Oct 15 Specticle FLO 5oz/ acre and Princep 64 oz/ acre


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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

@high leverage - just wondering why you added Princep into the equation? Are you targeting a specific weed? Do you not feel you are covered with the Prodiamine/Specticle FLO app? Just inquiring to see if I should expand my program.


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## bmw (Aug 29, 2018)

Since I've had huge weed issues on a big Centipede backyard (a yard I recently inherited from a previous owner), I've seen some great results since I introduced Pre-Em applications every 4 months or so. This may seem like overkill but it has worked for me very well to get my massive weed problem under control. I literally just got back from Ewing Landscape+Supply and got a 50 lb. bag of Anderson's 0-0-7 w/ .429% Barricade for $16.75. That's tough to beat.

I typically do an application in the fall, maybe around the first of October for fall weeds. And this year I did an application of granular Harrell's Dimension around New Year's because I saw some bad winter weeds last year. I live in Alabama, so we get some warm spells in Jan-Feb, believe it or not. I have very minimal fall/winter weeds this year. And you should have seen how many I had last year...

My basic program is this: apply Dimension around Jan 1 just before soil temps reach 50, then follow that up w/ Barricade mid-Feb. I'm prob going to apply my Barricade I just bought sometime this afternoon. Better to be a little early than to go off a date. The soil temps right now are 57, so good thing I put down that Jan application.

I also am going to apply a product called Bayer Advanced Season Long Weed Control that contains Isoxaben. I have a huge problem, even last year, with a weed called Chamberbitter. This thing is tough to eradicate. Dimension and Barricade don't work on it. Post-emergents don't really work on it, they injure it, then it comes back even after a couple of apps. I have read that Isoxaben works best as a Pre-Em for chamberbitter. So Walter Reeves suggests to apply it in Apr and June to prevent this weed. I really hope this works this year, because that weed adapts to mowing low and the seeds explode and spread all over the lawn. Bagging doesn't help.

I've come to realize that Pre-Emergent and mowing properly are the 2 most important things for great turf.


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

I apply Prodiamine at half the annual max after my spring scalp, then again in the Fall.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Redtenchu said:


> I apply Prodiamine at half the annual max after my spring scalp, then again in the Fall.


+1 :thumbup:

I will also add that if I have a bad outbreak of weeds I will also add some Celsius to the mix when I spray and kill two birds with one stone


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Late October - prodiamine, simazine, and monument

Late February - prodiamine and potentially simazine


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

cnet24 said:


> @high leverage - just wondering why you added Princep into the equation? Are you targeting a specific weed? Do you not feel you are covered with the Prodiamine/Specticle FLO app? Just inquiring to see if I should expand my program.


I'm using Simazine as a pre and post. Although I use the term "post" lightly. Primarily for increased control of Poa, Henbit, Prickly lettuce, and other winter broadleaf weeds. The cost per acre is roughly $6-12 / acre it's hard not to add it to the mix.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

high leverage said:


> cnet24 said:
> 
> 
> > @high leverage - just wondering why you added Princep into the equation? Are you targeting a specific weed? Do you not feel you are covered with the Prodiamine/Specticle FLO app? Just inquiring to see if I should expand my program.
> ...


Exactly. It's cheap. Helps go after poa and goes after broadleaf weeds, doesn't root prune, plus it has a residual. What's not to love?


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> Late October - prodiamine, simazine, and monument
> 
> Late February - prodiamine and potentially simazine


Late to the game here but why "potentially simazine" for the Feb app? I just started my Pre-E program and did first split app of Prodiamine. Second will be in a few weeks. Poa is a big issue for me. I just blanket sprayed glyphosate in fact to knock it down. Any reason not to put Simazine down twice per year?


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

@high leverage @Movingshrub

Followup question - could Simazine be substituted for Prodiamine and be effective? Root pruning is a concern as I'm trying to get bermuda fill in this year. I've yet to treat the backyard with anything - would simazine handle heavy crabgrass weed pressure?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

cglarsen said:


> @high leverage @Movingshrub
> 
> Followup question - could Simazine be substituted for Prodiamine and be effective? Root pruning is a concern as I'm trying to get bermuda fill in this year. I've yet to treat the backyard with anything - would simazine handle heavy crabgrass weed pressure?


Simazine doesn't last long enough. It's residual is 30-45 days max, I think.

Prodiamine can be used a few weeks after sprigging so, I wouldn't worry about root pruining for normal fill in.

I said optional cause I think it's individual judgment. I have ten years worth of simazine, and last year had record temps in February, so I went ahead and applied simazine cause I thought I was going to experience a really early green up. I was wrong. I had frosts in May. I REALLY want all the poa to die, so I'm on board with however that needs to be accomplished, whether another simazine app, glyphosate, monument, etc. Population escapes lead to resistance.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

@Movingshrub Understood. So sounds like applying Simazine with my next application is warranted as there will still be stragglers that made it through the the last roundup app. Do I need to worry if the bermuda is coming out of dormancy? It's been a warm winter - I'm not sure just how dormant things really are. Label says to use prior to June 1 - that is a little confusing to me because June 1 means different things at different latitudes.


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## reidgarner (Jun 18, 2018)

Mid-Feb: Prodiamine WDG @ .21 oz / M + Simazine 90DF @ .4 oz / M
10-11 weeks later: Prodiamine @ .21 oz / M
September (soil temp driven...prior to falling below 70 F): Prodiamine .21 oz / M 
10-11 weeks later: Prodiamine @ .21 oz / M + Simazine 90DF @ .4 oz/ M

Why do I take the yearly max of Prodiamine and split over 4 apps instead of two like most? I feel like it hedges your bets against unknown weather factors. For example, after my first fall app this year, we had a couple weeks where we got a deluge of rain (4-6 inches). That CAN contribute to the Pre-M barrier breaking down early. If you had put down the 6 month rate, and got a ton of rain, it may only give you 3-4 months of control due to breakdown. I've seen quite a few posts on here lately with folks saying they are getting Poa and other stuff popping up even though they put out a Pre-M in September. I'd be willing to guess that heavy rain and/or higher than usual temps may have caused that barrier to break down early. With the split apps you get that followup app to re-establish the barrier.

I mix in Simazine as a kicker for control of Poa and other winter annuals. Like many have said, too cheap not to use and it does amp up your Prodiamine effectiveness, especially against Poa.

Specticle is a great product that a lot of pros have started to use. It's just much more expensive and I feel I'm getting adequate results from the Pro/Sim combo. It's also said to be a harsher root pruner than Prodiamine. If you have had really bad problems with Poa in the past, it may be worth looking in to.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

@reidgarner I like your program and justification for the extended split apps. Question - what is the primary purpose of the Mid-Feb application including Simazine? Does your fall application take care of all Poa or are you trying to extend its control with this app? Does it provide any protection against summer weeds that Prodiamine does not?


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## reidgarner (Jun 18, 2018)

cglarsen said:


> @reidgarner I like your program and justification for the extended split apps. Question - what is the primary purpose of the Mid-Feb application including Simazine? Does your fall application take care of all Poa or are you trying to extend its control with this app? Does it provide any protection against summer weeds that Prodiamine does not?


It's mainly to extend control for any late-germinating Poa and clean up any existing that happened to break through (since Sim does have a little bit of a Post effect). I'm not sure if it helps with any warm season weeds since the residual is only about 30-45 days. The label does include crabgrass ad goosegrass though, so it may very well help. I only apply it when the Bermuda is dormant since it can injure it when actively growing, so mid-Feb to March is about as late as I'd want to apply it.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

Excellent - I'm going to lay some down this week and keep it handy for the fall.


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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

Here is a timely YouTube post from none other than THE Matt Martin as it relates to pre-em programs. My biggest question as it relates to pre-ems has been are the additional chemicals, time, and expense really worth it? I think it comes down to your personal preference and yard needs, but this video made me think that adding more to a Prodiamine program has its benefits.

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVS8jTiWFo8[/media]


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## Powhatan (Dec 15, 2017)

^ Very informative video :thumbup:


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## Necrosis (Jul 12, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> I have a shorter growing season. I use prodiamine. Half in spring and half in fall is plenty. If you need more, consider using dithiopyr, bensulide, pendimethalin, oryzalin, simazine, oxadiazon.


If using dithiopyr do you use the full recommended dose or do you cut back since you put down yearly maxes of prodiamine? Would it be better to use Dismiss which has a different mechanism of action?


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## reidgarner (Jun 18, 2018)

cnet24 said:


> Here is a timely YouTube post from none other than THE Matt Martin as it relates to pre-em programs. My biggest question as it relates to pre-ems has been are the additional chemicals, time, and expense really worth it? I think it comes down to your personal preference and yard needs, but this video made me think that adding more to a Prodiamine program has its benefits.
> 
> [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVS8jTiWFo8[/media]


That UGA study he cites is some pretty compelling evidence that split apps tend to provide better control that single. 😎


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

> That UGA study he cites is some pretty compelling evidence that split apps tend to provide better control that single. 😎


My takeaway was - Split apps and rotation different mode of action herbicides should take care of 99% of problem,s for us on the homeowner side of lawn care.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

cglarsen said:


> > That UGA study he cites is some pretty compelling evidence that split apps tend to provide better control that single. 😎
> 
> 
> My takeaway was - Split apps and rotation different mode of action herbicides should take care of 99% of problem,s for us on the homeowner side of lawn care.


I could see this, but the only problem with that is the cost. Pennant Magnum and specticle amongst others is high.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Necrosis said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> > I have a shorter growing season. I use prodiamine. Half in spring and half in fall is plenty. If you need more, consider using dithiopyr, bensulide, pendimethalin, oryzalin, simazine, oxadiazon.
> ...


If you are concerned with resistance, use the group 3 for a year or two and then switch to group 2,4,8,14 for a year or two before going back to group 3 herbicides. Personally, I don't bother with dithiopyr since I have winters here. If I get the prodiamine down early enough, I don't have crabgrass problems. Many people use dithiopyr to aid in post control of crabgrass but they probably didn't put it down early enough, they don't have winters, or they don't use quinclorac/other options.


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## bassadict69 (Apr 2, 2018)

Does anyone have a link to a herbicide mode of action chart such as in the above video? I would love to save it to my computer.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

bassadict69 said:


> Does anyone have a link to a herbicide mode of action chart such as in the above video? I would love to save it to my computer.


This.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

http://bfy.tw/MNMo @bassadict69

You'll have to search by chemical rather than brand name.


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## bassadict69 (Apr 2, 2018)

I have googled it, I cannot come up with the simple chart he shows in the video that lists the most common herbicides.


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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

@bassadict69 you can pause the video and take a screenshot?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

bassadict69 said:


> I have googled it, I cannot come up with the simple chart he shows in the video that lists the most common herbicides.


http://www.tennesseeturfgrassweeds.org/Lists/Fact%20Sheets/Attachments/33/W352.pdf

Start on page 3


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## deeevo (Jun 18, 2018)

Put down my first round of Pendant Magnum and Gallery this morning and will put down another round in late April (half app of Pendant) and another late June (half app of Pendant).


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