# Bigbew's UK 2020 Journal



## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Hi,

So I've only been into serious lawn care for a year, even then only mid way through so I missed the boat for Spring 2019. I have a small back lawn and an even smaller front lawn in the North East of the UK, with a climate as far as I can tell close to the North West US. It's cold, it's wet and doesn't generally get any sustained heat or sun even in the summer. My back lawn is a PRG and Fine Fescue blend and the front is Evora KBG.

Both lawns suffer from severe compaction, mostly thanks to my two boys playing football on it constantly since it was turfed about five years ago. Due to this I have quite a Poa Annua problem which I intend to address over the next few years. The front lawn was renovated with KBG last autumn, but owing to my mistakes it never flourished and eventually Poa crept in and took over. Here's a few pics of where they're at now. I've been applying a tank mix of Amvista TriPhos (humic, kelp and phosphite) and liquid iron over Winter and it's keeping it healthy.


Back


Back small section (ignore the storm damage to the sofa cover)


Front

I also have a 6m2 section out the front that's gravel, I'm planning on turning this soil over and planting KBG.

I recently bought a Swardman fork aerator and a cheap-ish Cobra scarifier, so my plans are roughly as follows:

Early March (front) - I have a small irrigation system out the front, nothing fancy, it's connected to the garden tap and a simple timer, but the trenches need re-digging and laying deeper. It was a rush job last year to fit it so it's shallow and pushing the heads at a funny angle, so I'm going to buy a trenching shovel and re-do it, you can see the exposed pipe on the left of the picture. (irrigation controller coming when I'm a bit more flush)

Mid March (back) - Fertilise with either a 6-5-10, or an organic 12-0-9, depending on temperatures. I'd rather use the organic but it's if it will kick in in time for step 2.

Mid April (back) - Scalp, scarify, aerate, top dress with sand (for drainage). I'm not going to seed in the spring out the back.

Mid April (front) - I'm not happy with the Evora, so I've bought some Miracle and am testing it out in my office in small pots. I'll be cutting the front short and spraying with Glyphosate one day, giving it a couple of days then coming back, scalping it and spraying again. Couple of days later, weather pending I'm planning on scarifying, aerating and top dressing, then laying and rolling in some fresh seed. The idea being that the new seed comes up while the old grass is dying off to prevent complaints from the wife.

From then on I'm going to see how it goes. I'll likely try to focus on using the organic fertiliser after reading this article on Mycorrhizae:

https://bowls-central.co.uk/poa-annua-to-bentfescue/

My fertilizer contains the microbes so I'll use it almost exclusively. I plan on treating monthly with the Iron and Tri-Phos, and I've also recently bought the Amvista Soil Soaker product, an all in one wetting agent that apparently only needs applying once after renovation. I doubt it's that effective somehow, but I'll give it a try to try and draw moisture away from the surface and away from the Poa roots.

In the autumn I'm planning on another scalp, scarify aerate and top dress but this time with an overseed of good quality Fescue/PRG, DLF Masterline 50 out back.

I'd be thrilled to hear any comments or feedback on my plan, it's all swirling around in my head and I can't wait for the temps to start creeping up.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

@bigbew

You're testing grass out in small pots. I'd say you got this. All I can add is good luck and post lots of pictures. Who knows......LOTM maybe?!! Welcome to TLF!


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

So today it's been a dry and sunny day (cold, but sunny) so I took advantage and sprayed everything with a mix of Tri-Phos, Iron and wetting agent. It's still growing but I resisted the urge to mow given we had a couple of inches of snow yesterday. It was gone by lunch time but still...

My testing pots are coming along. I've been lazy and forgot to take pictures every day. The PRG/Fescue popped up around day 3/4 and here's the progress at day 7. I'm surprised, but both KBG's have started to pop up already.


My test pots


Evora KBG


Miracle KBG


Evora/Miracle blend

I'm eager to see the colour and density difference between the KBG and using the PRG/Fescue as a sort of control as that's what I'd consider standard 'British' grass.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

So today was okay weather and work was quiet, so I decided to do phase 1 of my irrigation fixes.

I dug up the old dirt near the path and removed more sand cement around the sprinkler head so I could get it a bit deeper and level with the path. I then backfilled with a sharp sand and topsoil blend, doing final levelling work.

Im not seeding at the moment, thats planned for later on in the spring along with more levelling work and overseeding. All in all I'm much happier with how this looks compared to my bodge job last year. Next phases are fixing the rest of it to match what I've done here.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

It's great to be able to get out and do something huh! Springs on the way, we hope!

Sounds like you'll be busy with that aerator and scarifier! I'm dead jealous of the level ground you have.

Regarding the different types of seed/grass you have. PRG and fine fescue are bunch-forming grasses and need regular(ish) overseeding to maintain thickness. KBG spreads via rhizomes so once its growing well it self repairs and spreads, it performs better after a season and will thicken itself in a different way to bunch grasses. You probably already knew that but I'm mentioning it just in case, it has implications regarding your tests about density, and worth bearing in mind.



bigbew said:


> Mid April (back) - Scalp, scarify, aerate, top dress with sand (for drainage). I'm not going to seed in the spring out the back.
> 
> In the autumn I'm planning on another scalp, scarify aerate and top dress but this time with an overseed of good quality Fescue/PRG, DLF Masterline 50 out back.


Any particular reason you don't want to overseed the PRG/ff mix out the back in spring? Maybe consider throwing a little seed down, the invasiveness of your plans might well thin the stand of your bunchtype grass which won't self repair. The poa annua might take advantage.

If the fertiliser you have is the Maxwell amino 12-0-9 then half of the nitrogen is urea N, some ammoniacal, rest organic. Bear it in mind if we have a hot summer. Its good stuff though.

Best regards


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

I wish I had level ground.

The front is level-ish, it needs some work and the path is on a slope, but it's much better than the back. The back is on three different slopes!

The main reason I'm not overseeding is due to wife restrictions. She doesn't want much disruption for the boys. I have a 10 year old who uses it as a football pitch and a 3 year old with bouncy castles and sand pits etc. It's the 10 year old's birthday in April so she likes to have it available.

I'm actually tempted to overseed a portion of it as I have a gravel border against the wall that I'm sick of edging, so I think I might dig that up, lay some irrigation pipe and heads and fill it in with sand/top soil and seed. I might be able to get away with having a section off limits for a couple of weeks.


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

You could try this method, you may still have time to do it https://germinalamenity.com/news/cold-seeding-to-maximise-overseeding-success/


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

I'm hoping my creeping fescue will help with the repair. I think I'll try and time it in a window that if after the renovation it needs some seed I'll be able to do it with minimal disruption.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

So I managed to get out today for a mow. Its been a dry weekend, the lawn is starting to get some sun and we've got rain forecast for a week so I thought I'd take advantage and try to stimulate a bit of growth. Not looking too bad, bit patchy by the far wall but otherwise looking pretty good for March.


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## jabopy (Nov 24, 2018)

Must be well drained bigbew, looking great for March. :thumbup: :mrgreen:


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Earlier this week after completing part 2 of my irrigation fixes (burying and re-seating the sprinkler at the far side) I took a punt and threw down some Miracle seed and compressed it in. I don't expect much in terms of germination, but I thought what the hell, let's give it a go. We've got a wet and warm-ish week forecast so fingers crossed.

I took a reading today and the soil temps are up around 8 degrees c. The front lawn sits in the sun all day so the better weather has been my friend this week. There's nothing come up after three days, but here's hoping I'll get something soon.

I've ordered some compression elbow's for some sections of the pipework as the far sprinkler is having pressure issues and I think it's down to a leaking joint on the run of pipe, I'l hopefully get that fixed over the weekend.

Some pics below of my test pots. Miracle is looking good and dense, Evora is quite spindly and the PRG/Fescue is out of control! I feel haircuts coming soon for them all.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Nice! :thumbup: 
It's nice to see some greenery and strong seed establishment this time of year. You're off to a great start!


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

I called round to my brother in law's house today, he's asked me to take on the care of his back lawn this year. I measured up and this is what I'm working with.

I've worked out it's roughly 50m2, or close enough for spraying/spreading purposes.


When I took a look at it a few months ago I was considering the nuclear option (glyphosate) as it was 80% moss and weeds, but on closer inspection today I think there might be enough turf to make it viable. First thing I did notice is it is very, very soggy, hence the moss. My lawn is almost dry thanks to the few hours of sun lately, but his is drenched.

My plan of attack is standard reno stuff. I'm going to treat with iron sulphate (ProGreen) for the moss and some lawn weedkiler for everything else, standard dicamba/mecoprop available to homeowners. I've got some marker dye so will likely give it a few applications over the next few weeks to see what we're working with.

Following that I'll give it a thorough scarify to pull up as much dead and dying stuff as I can and expose the soil. Then I'll core aerate and leave the cores to dry, then scarify again to break them up as a bit of a top dress along with loads of sharp sand. I bought a level-lawn (or eBay equivalent  )so I'm hoping to get a halfway decent seed bed with improved drainage.

I'll then spread my DLF Masterline 50 Rye/Fescue blend, roll in then fertilize with some 6-5-10 to get it started. I'm actually considering trying to blend in some of my Miracle bluegrass for a bit of toughness/self repair in future, but I've heard it's tough to establish when blended with rye. If anybody has any thoughts on that I'd appreciate it. Here are some pics:











For the wetness I'll treat with the wetting agent I recently bought from ProGreen and keep up fortnightly treatments of the TriPhos and iron once it's more established. Hopefully the sand will help with the drainage and keep the moss at bay. I'll be recommending he mows longer more often once it's at that stage, fingers crossed.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Sounds like a good plan. Maybe you could add a soil test to check all the general items. pH would be good to know, with the prevalence of moss in the lawn, to determine if the soil is acidic, and needing correction.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Gave into temptation today, threw 'er down some 16-0-5 @ 35g m2.

Try to give it a little jump start for spring with the slightly warmer temps we've been getting. Fingers crossed I managed to sweep/blow all the granules off my concrete!


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Managed to get out for a mow today, took a bit off the back and just the tips from the front. I'm hoping it'll help stimulate some growth after the fert, particularly the front.

Also got around to digging out the gravel border at the back, took a while with my 3 year old 'helping'. I'm planning on levelling with some sand/soil then throwing down some prg/fescue to get some coverage.

I also fixed one of my sprinklers the other day. I have two MP Rotator strips out front and one of them was sputtering. I removed it, cleaned it, checked the pipes, no better. But once I swapped the heads they both for some reason started working perfectly, random.

I know they're just poking fun at my wife who complains about her 'lawn obsessed' husband all the time, but it's always nice to have good feedback!


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Did a little experiment today to see how much leveling work I have to do...I think I may be on with it a few years!

I took a long spirit level across from the patio, placing pegs in the ground at the end of the level and moving along. I have to bring the level up a full brick in the middle section!

I think I'll attack it every 6 weeks or so in the growing season, sharp sand and topsoil until I'm close to where it needs to be. My wife and kids will thank me for a flat bouncy castle/paddling pool surface.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Ain't no stinkin' virus stopping my plans!

Before I get hate, I haven't broken any quarantine, my hygiene before, during and after entering the store was impeccable and I'm complying with all local guidelines and advice.

Anyway, picked up a bunch of sand and top soil (only four bags of sand left in Wickes, do people know something I don't?) and a wheelbarrow to help out with all my upcoming landscaping work.


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

Nice one! Tempted to also do one run into stores to get supplies for top dressing as wfh will get boring quick and some lawn exercise is good 

What type of sand did you get?

And I don't want to alarm you but I used that topsoil before and it was full of twigs and stones. Bought a soil sieve to filter the junk out.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

RCUK said:


> Nice one! Tempted to also do one run into stores to get supplies for top dressing as wfh will get boring quick and some lawn exercise is good
> 
> What type of sand did you get?
> 
> And I don't want to alarm you but I used that topsoil before and it was full of twigs and stones. Bought a soil sieve to filter the junk out.


Just the tarmac brand sharp sand. There's no weight on the bag so I don't know how much it covers in theory, but it's only 1.99 for a bag roughly the size of a 25l bag of soil so it's decent for a small job.

I've used the soil myself and noticed a few twigs, but nothing compared to wickes own brand topsoil, that was all twigs and bark. I did look into making my own a La Connor Ward and Ryan Knorr, it's just finding the right size mesh to make it work at our DIY shops.


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

£1.99? That is so cheap! Do you know if it is washed? Just curious if the salt content will cause harm to the lawns.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

RCUK said:


> £1.99? That is so cheap! Do you know if it is washed? Just curious if the salt content will cause harm to the lawns.


I don't think it's washed, but I threw some down a while ago and it doesn't seem to have done any damage. I think with it being quarry sand the salt content is low to begin with.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

I haven't updated this in a while so I thought I'd give it all one big update.

Two weeks ago I dug up and backfilled my gravel trench, scarified the surrounding grass and top dressed a portion of it with sand and soil. I also took the opportunity to Bury some irrigation pipe and two Mp3000 rotators in each corner. I fitted and sealed off a T junction part way down ready to trench across the lawn in the autumn to the water source. I've had the sprinkler on it for two weeks and nothing at all has germinated. I'm hoping next weeks warmer temps will spring it to life.



Today due to boredom I scalped the remainder down, ran my Cobra scarifier over it on the highest setting with the tine attachment. Massively impressed with that machine for only a hundred quid, pulled loads out. I think it looks pretty damn good, few scalp marks and a few bare patches I'm hoping fill in. I'd love to keep it at the lowest mower setting, 20mm / 3/4 inch, but that's a lot of work. Setting 2 will do for now, 32mm / 1 1/4 inch.







I also trimmed and scarified my kbg at the front. It was actually looking really good and dark before I did it, but I'm hoping it'll come back stronger.





I was planning on coring and top dressing everything with sand this spring, however given the lockdown and more pressing matters I might defer it all to autumn and hope my cultural practices can keep the Poa Annua at bay. Progreens wetting agent 'soil soaker' seems to be doing a great job making things much less soggy.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

I've decided due to the current situation and the need for outdoor spaces, and tonnes of sand being non essential, to switch to non destructive practices this spring. After dethatching my own lawn yesterday I switched my attention to my brother in laws. They're in the same boat of needing the outdoor space for the kids, so I decided to try and push what existing grass there is.

I headed round with my trusty spreader and applied 6-5-10 with 2%fe at double the recommended 35g m2 due to the low nitrogen content.

I'll see how it goes over the next few weeks and maybe come by with the scarifier to pull out the dead matter. I'll also monitor to see if I can spray the moss at some point.

The weeds seem to be taking a hit from the dicamba and mcpa, albeit slowly. I'm hoping the fert will push enough growth to kick in in to gear. I might look to reapply soon. You can still see the remnants of the dye I applied it with, oops


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Baby grass do do do do do do, baby grass do do do do...

Finally germinating. I raked over and spread some additional seed last Tuesday night and its starting to come in. It's annoying as the first shot gets sun a lot of the day, the strip along the wall gets barely any so it's coming in much slower, but it's definitely coming.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

I really need to update this more, I've done loads!

Since the last update I've scalped and scarified and overseeded. My thinking was this week we were going to have a week of rain and that never materialised. But oh well, I've been watering it as best I can. Nothing yet but I'm hopeful some will take.

Today I sprayed some triphos, wetting agent, liquid iron and took the plunge and sprayed a minimal amount of PGR. Full rate should have been about 10 ml for 80m2, I put down about 2.5ml just to be on the safe side. I'm hoping for minimal growth reduction and a minimal hit to the Poa annua. We'll see.





I also butchered the front, cored, scarified too deeply, top dressed and overseeded with Miracle KBG. I neglected to take too many pics, but here's a couple. I love that Swardman fork aerator.







So much pulled out!

Also an update on the brother in laws lawn. We scarifier it a couple of weeks ago which made a huge difference, so at the weekend I threw down some seed. I had a look today and there are a couple of bits of baby grass coming through, but what a difference a scarify and some water makes in a few weeks, the colour! I'm confident it'll pick up more and fille in once the seed takes.


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## TheWoodsman (Feb 23, 2020)

@bigbew

Oh you have been busy lol!! Looking good at the back garden mate.

What PGR have you applied?


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

TheWoodsman said:


> @bigbew
> 
> Oh you have been busy lol!! Looking good at the back garden mate.
> 
> What PGR have you applied?


@TheWoodsman Thabks!

I bought generic trinexapac-ethyl from marketplace.farm. I think it's basically Moddus as it's double the concentration of Primo Maxx. I found a useful label from Syngenta New Zealand that lists the rates of Primo for different turf types per 100m2 and so used that for my turf types. High enough to harm the Poa but hopefully low enough to have a positive effect on the turf.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Quick update on the bro in law's lawn. It's amazing what some TLC and a bit of seed can do in a few weeks:







Its filled in remarkably well, better than I'd hoped. I have him mowing twice a week and told him to back off the watering. He's also asked me to look after his front lawns now as due to lockdown the company he was paying has stopped. I've given it a feed and these pics are after a scarify. It need another and a good, deep watering.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

It's amazing what Bellway leave in people's garden beds out the front of their houses.





This small area was gravel, but I'm turning it into grass. Aside from the usual massive rocks, they leave big chunks of cement attached to the path border, no wonder everything on new estates near a footpath dry up and die first! Thankfully I had my SDS drill with chisel attachment and it came out fairly easily, and the big chunks broke up easy enough as they were bone dry today, didn't turn out too bad considering when I lifted the gravel it looked like the surface of the moon underneath!

I'll be fitting a couple of sprinklers in ground then bringing in some top soil and working on getting it perfectly level, then seeding with Miracle KBG. Hopefully it'll come in quickly with it being so warm.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Hooray, hooray, hooray!





About half an inch of rain overnight and it's still going with more forecast!



Also splurged on some new feed and some seed from Collier's Turf Care. Went with the Barenbrug Sport Extreme in 5kg form for my autumn work. I couldn't justify the RPR sport cost and this blend is designed for high wear with low mowing tolerance. I'm happy to overseed every so often being the lawn geek I am so it made sense. I also went with the Vitax 15-2-8 for feed. I prefer to use the organic stuff to help in the Poa fight, but sometimes I think it needs a good hit of Nitrogen so I put it down at about 15g/m2 last night before the rain. It advises a light dose more often on the bag so I'll see how it goes.


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## chrisb1983 (May 25, 2020)

Hi mate, few questions if i may - might start a new journal myself shortly. Other than the overseed, did you throw any miracle down in its own area? If so i was wondering what it looks like? i just emailed 'thegrassseedstore' about pure kbg mixes here in the uk. They can do miracle and evora individually or as a mix. Ideally i wanted something darker, going off the charts, but i guess you go with what you can get. I found this thread and saw your tester pots for both these mixes from earlier this year hence, my interest on your results with them.
I have an area around 20m2 in the back garden that i'm almost ready to seed (few ton of topsoil arriving shortly). In the front garden, i threw down some qlawn turf about 18 months ago. To be fair, it was top turf and looked amazing when it first went down. But i have neglected it and not watered it enough nor fed it. One of the good sides to Corona virus is it has got me back into the garden and i've started treating that better and it's starting to come back. The q lawn turf is "a premium grade, Ryegrass and Fescue mix" but for the back garden, i fancied going with seed instead of turf and something different in the type of grass. From watching lots of different youtubers (yes lots of connor vids - the guy is hilarious) i've decided for this section of lawn to give *** a try. I think the conditions will suit so i'm just trying to nail down which cultivar and get my hands on it.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

@chrisb1983 I believe@RCUK has 1kg of Tetris he might want to shift, give him a PM.
Or seeing as you are just looking for 20m² worth of seed, maybe you want to consider Germinals A31 blend, of which I could provide you. Check my journal for info/PM me.


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

Hi, I've agreed with @Richard Slater to sell the 1KG of Tetris.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

I have a big supply of Miracle available to sell, was going to make a new post about it soon actually.

To be honest my pots never really came to anything, I neglected them and they died off. I'll post some pics tomorrow of the Miracle that has come through so far.


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## GlynRS2 (Apr 9, 2019)

bigbew said:


> I have a big supply of Miracle available to sell, was going to make a new post about it soon actually.
> 
> To be honest my pots never really came to anything, I neglected them and they died off. I'll post some pics tomorrow of the Miracle that has come through so far.


I would be interested in 1kg of Miracle to try on my front lawn that got ravaged by leatherjackets. Going to be a full renovation and fancy trying some KBG


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

bigbew said:


> Also splurged on some new feed and some seed from Collier's Turf Care. Went with the Barenbrug Sport Extreme in 5kg form for my autumn work.


Cant wait to see it!


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## Matty316 (Apr 2, 2020)

@bigbew



Grabbed some for myself


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Excellent, the feed seems to be doing wonders to be honest, though I haven't tried the seed yet. Did you get the 10% first order discount?


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## Matty316 (Apr 2, 2020)

Ahh ffs no i must have missed it where it said it. Oh well no worries.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Quick little update. The front isn't looking great but the back isn't bad. The new Vitax feed is kicking in.

I'm not happy with the front at all. The Miracle germinated but for some reason it doesn't seem to be growing vertical. I have a feeling it's because I sprayed a small dose of pgr a few weeks ago as a test just after it had sprung up, think it stunted it a bit.





The back on the other hand looks okay. The border has filled in nicely enough. I also killed a few patches of grassy weeds a few weeks ago. It's amazing how far glyphosate spreads, even when being really, really careful. But they're filling back in too thankfully.





The missus had me building raised planters a few weeks ago, I think they turned out great and have improved the garden massively.


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## Matty316 (Apr 2, 2020)

Nice update


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

bigbew said:


> I'm not happy with the front at all. The Miracle germinated but for some reason it doesn't seem to be growing vertical. I have a feeling it's because I sprayed a small dose of pgr a few weeks ago as a test just after it had sprung up, think it stunted it a bit.


There is a phrase regarding kbg called sprout and pout, it hangs about after germination before it takes off again.

I'm curious as to the rate of pgr you sprayed on it? How did you measure it? I picked up some medical syringes from the eeebs which work well.



bigbew said:


> The missus had me building raised planters a few weeks ago, I think they turned out great and have improved the garden massively.


Great teamwork, looks good :thumbup:


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

I put down 2.5ml of the moddus type double strength stuff over 80m2. I think that's about 1/3rd of the full rate so I wasn't expecting much to happen. I used a calpol syringe, works well too!


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

I got a mow in today while it was dry, took it to the lowest setting of 20mm on my mower. Its looking the best it has in ages, the Vitax feed has done wonders. 




This pic makes me cry though, the Poa infestation. Although it's so widespread and never seems to die so at this point I'm doubting it even is poa.



I also fit my sprinklers at the front, ready for topsoil coming on Friday. I'm doubting I've ordered enough, used a calculator with 8m2 at a depth of 5cm and I might just have enough.







In a busy day I also fed my brother in laws back lawn using the Vitax @ 15g/m2 and sprayed the multitude of weeds. I didn't do the front as he forgot to cancel his lawn care company during lockdown and they came today to spread something (all over the path too).

To top all that off I sprayed my lawns with liquid iron to help with some green up.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Where'd you get the topsoil from? Cant wait to see the barenbrug extreme. You putting it on the new front lawn as well as overseeding the back?


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

liamjones said:


> Where'd you get the topsoil from? Cant wait to see the barenbrug extreme. You putting it on the new front lawn as well as overseeding the back?


I've ordered it from Dandy's, the rootzone sand/soil blend. To be honest after doing some stone removal and grading I'm panicking a 750kg bag might not be enough based on a calculator with 8m2 and 5cm depth it would just about be enough. So last night I spread the bags of topsoil and sharp sand I had in the garage to try and bring the level up just a bit.

I also fitted my valve box and solenoids in the gravel opposite nearest the house, man that's a tough job and I still didn't really manage to get it deep enough, but it's in and I'm happy it all works with no leaks. Manual operation for now until I can afford a fancy wireless controller.

https://www.dandys.com/collections/topsoil-compost/products/root-zone-topsoil

I'm putting the Extreme down at the front. Was originally going to put the Miracle KBG down there, but to be honest I'm thinking based on the other lawn that it's a bit of a failed experiment. If I can get this new patch looking really good I might get enough wife approval to kill it off and go with the PRG on the other one in the autumn.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

bigbew said:


> Manual operation for now until I can afford a fancy wireless controller.


How have you got it powered? Or have you not yet? If it's on a standard plug you can just get a standard electronic timer for about a tenner. Then if you wanna go smarter later you can buy a a smart plug and control using IFTTT or SmartThings



bigbew said:


> I'm putting the Extreme down at the front. Was originally going to put the Miracle KBG down there, but to be honest I'm thinking based on the other lawn that it's a bit of a failed experiment. If I can get this new patch looking really good I might get enough wife approval to kill it off and go with the PRG on the other one in the autumn.


Really looking forward to the results!


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

liamjones said:


> How have you got it powered? Or have you not yet? If it's on a standard plug you can just get a standard electronic timer for about a tenner. Then if you wanna go smarter later you can buy a a smart plug and control using IFTTT or SmartThings


No not yet, that's the bit that's missing.

I think in the autumn when I come to do my back lawn irrigation I'l fit one of these at the side of the house and do the cabling then.

https://www.waterirrigation.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/46533/s/orbit-6-station-b-hyve-outdoor-smart-wi-fi-timer/category/1989/

I have it on a tap timer, I'll shut off a valve if it's not needed at the time so I can do separate cycles on each lawn.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Lo and behold, here it is a day early. I think I might invest in some mesh screen from Wickes and build a sifter for it, looks like it has quite a few twigs in there. Thankfully the delivery driver (who seemingly has never heard of social distancing) managed to get it in the garage.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Built a soil sifter tonight, Wickes happen to do a 900x600 4mm mesh sheet for less than a fiver and it fits the wheelbarrow really well.





I am surprised how much rubbish and clumps are in there, hopefully it's just the top bit that's like that as it wasn't cheap. That was only two shovels worth.


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## chrisb1983 (May 25, 2020)

@bigbew

What system do you use for irrigation? As in brand of sprinklers heads etc? I just bought a claber colibri as it was cheap on amazon, £70 for the starter kit, upto 50m2. It came yesterday and i managed to rig up a test today with the 360 sprinkler head. I wasnt all that impressed with it tbh, but we'll see. I need the ground to dry up (who'd have thought considering what it was like in May!!!) so i can test it with some tuna cans to see what the spread is like. It looked like most of the water was going to the outside. Before i seed the top part of the garden, circa 20m2, i wanted to get irrigation down so i can be lazy  I'm kind of in the same boat with the wifi controller too - i'd like to get control of it via Alexa and on a schedule. There seem to be a few to choose from, but as ever finances are in the way. Cant see the point in buying those mechanical timers now. If nothing else, it will be good just to connect it direct to the tap so all i do is turn it on and not have to have hoses lying on the lower lawn and moving the rubbish hozelock sprinkler around to water the different areas! Going forward i'd like to irrigate all 3 lawns (2 in the back and one out front), all in good time though.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

chrisb1983 said:


> @bigbew
> 
> What system do you use for irrigation? As in brand of sprinklers heads etc?


I built my own system using the Hunter MP rotators. It's kind of evolved the more I've got into it. I'll do a proper write up of what I've used over the weekend. My work friend has asked me to design a system for him as he's moved house and is digging up all his garden, and his wife loved the in ground sprinkler idea 

In the meantime though, an interesting observation on plant growth regulator. Ages ago I sprayed way too much on my small patch and it pretty much browned off the entire patch, to the point even the wife commented on it. However now that (I'm guessing) it's worn off and having had a feed it has come back with next to no seed head activity. I think it's managed to surpress the Poa enough for the good turf to take over, see below:



For comparison here's a sample patch of not too badly affected untreated turf, the seed heads being much more prevalent:



If it wasn't for my upcoming 'I haven't touched it all year so I can now burn it down since it's september' argument I'd be tempted to spray a decent dose on the rest of it.


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## Matty316 (Apr 2, 2020)

What have you been using?


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Matty316 said:


> What have you been using?


Feed or PGR?

Feed is Vitax Enhance RS/S 15-2-8, love that stuff so far, tiny measures compared to most fert, only 15g m2 needed compared to 30.

PGR is generic trinexapac-ethyl from marketplace.farm. It's double the strength of name brand stuff like Primo Maxx. It definitely works, I didn't mow that patch for over a month and there was no growth. Now that it's back there are no seed heads popping up. I haven't inspected in the canopy yet, it's a bit wet but I will after the next mow to see if any are hiding.


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## Matty316 (Apr 2, 2020)

Whats the application rate for the trinexapac-ethyl?

I bought some of that Vitax Enhance and i agree it seems to be doing the business helping my back lawn recover


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Matty316 said:


> Whats the application rate for the trinexapac-ethyl?
> 
> I bought some of that Vitax Enhance and i agree it seems to be doing the business helping my back lawn recover


I've found a few labels from New Zealand and Australia for primo maxx that says 20ml per 100m2 for the 120 concentration for prg/fescue. As this is double strength roughly I would use half rate. But youre meant to ramp it up slowly. So I have 80m2, which at full rate would be 8ml, I'd probably go with 4ml for a first app then 6 for the second to avoid yellowing.

I agree that vitax stuff is great, so glad I bought it.


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## Matty316 (Apr 2, 2020)

I'll grab some if what you've found to possibly be true and it helping to get rid of this damn Poa


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Matty316 said:


> I'll grab some if what you've found to possibly be true and it helping to get rid of this damn Poa


I need to do some more testing with it. I don't know if any of the other UK guys have managed to test it yet though.


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## Matty316 (Apr 2, 2020)

Ok bud


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

I managed to get some soil down today. I'm so glad I built the soil sifter and am using it, despite it adding so much time and energy to the process. The soil is coming out so fine and spreading so easily. Got down 13 barrows full, about 1/3 of the bag but still a long way to go. I have it almost level at the moment, but I feel as soon as I run the roller over it it'll lose an inch of height. These pics are the first few barrows and resulting spread.





Also gave the lawns a mow in the wet, big no no I know, but it had been a week and the Poa heads were really bugging me.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Finally got done raising the soil up to level ready for seeding. It's smooth as butter but no doubt will sink over time. I still have about quarter of the bag left so top dressing once it's established shouldn't be a problem. Still needs a little bit down the far end near the border, but I think it's only a shovels worth.





I'm hoping to get the seed down today. I'm going to wash out and dry my spreaders so there's no contamination of anything. Will scratch up the surface, lay down half the seed, roll it in, scratch it up again and repeat. Hopefully the pre seed fert I bought from @Matty316 will arrive today, if not no biggie ill put it down when it does arrive.


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## Matty316 (Apr 2, 2020)

It should arrive today mate...i added a bit extra in the parcel to cover any spillage


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Matty316 said:


> It should arrive today mate...i added a bit extra in the parcel to cover any spillage


Cheers. I posted some seed to @GlynRS2 it's amazing how difficult it is to package up stuff like that, gets everywhere!


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

You not gunna let it fallow for a couple weeks and the glyphosate whatever weeds come through?

This would also allow the soil to settle if watered regularaly throughout this period. 2 birds 1 stone.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

liamjones said:
 

> You not gunna let it fallow for a couple weeks and the glyphosate whatever weeds come through?
> 
> This would also allow the soil to settle if watered regularaly throughout this period. 2 birds 1 stone.


In a nutshell, no 

In an ideal world I would have, but I want to take advantage of having warm, moist weather. I can deal with any weeds that come up, I just want to try and avoid any Poa ingress.

Got my seed down today! I cultivated the dirt with a thatch rake first, spread half the seed then cultivated it the opposite direction to try and turn it into the soil. Spread the remaining seed including some by hand on the edges and corners, pulled the cultivator over it again and finally rolled it all in. Well, I flip flop squashed it in by the fence line!

Didn't fertilise as I'm waiting on the 8-12-8 arriving, but it should be no big deal to put it down and get that watered in over the next couple of days when it does arrive. Watered the seed in fairly heavily with a light spray by hand today, will keep on doing that tomorrow before switching to irrigation to make sure it's all bedded in properly.











Also double cut the back, diamond checks. Really happy with that Vitax feed, really kicked it into gear.


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## Matty316 (Apr 2, 2020)

Looking good..that Vitax is making mine grow like crazy. I've cut it 3 times in a week


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Matty316 said:


> Looking good..that Vitax is making mine grow like crazy. I've cut it 3 times in a week


It's amazing, only put down 15g m2 and it behaves like other feeds that need over 30g.


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## Matty316 (Apr 2, 2020)

Yeah same here i went with caution and its going crazy haha


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Put down the 8-12-8 I got from @Matty316 and watered it in.





My MP rotator heads seem to be spraying quite aggressively about a foot from the head and it's pushing seed way. Has anybody come across this before? (mostly aimed at any US folk reading this) Could it be a water pressure thing as I do get quite a lot of drift.

I fitted Hunter PGV solenoids, I believe there's a flow control on these but I can't seem to find it documented anywhere as it's labelled as 'optional'. They were delivered with a weird long handle to adjust a valve, but I don't know if that's some sort of drain valve

One of these:
https://www.waterirrigation.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/23a2b66f7832d94e99a5adb9213dce51/p/g/pgv-101g.jpg


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The seed being pushed is normal. When the sprinkler is going up and down, it will spray the soil around it and push the seed away. The optional is to control the flow thru the valve. This can be used to control the misting at the nozzles, but you are using regulated bodies, so it should be ok.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

g-man said:


> The seed being pushed is normal. When the sprinkler is going up and down, it will spray the soil around it and push the seed away. The optional is to control the flow thru the valve. This can be used to control the misting at the nozzles, but you are using regulated bodies, so it should be ok.


I'm just using the standard non regulated bodies. I played around with the valve on the solenoid a bit, it reduced misting but also reduced the distance, I couldn't seem to find a middle ground in my brief trials. I'll have more of a play tomorrow.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

"I see trees of green..."

I was starting to worry until I got on my hands and knees this morning of day 6 and saw this. Sissy grass for the win.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Green fuzz a plenty today, including this one really thick bit:


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

Looking good. Nice clear line from the sprinkler head 

Did you sort the issue with the seed being pushed away?


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

RCUK said:


> Looking good. Nice clear line from the sprinkler head
> 
> Did you sort the issue with the seed being pushed away?


No not yet. There are two patches, one isn't too bad, it might just need some work to overseed, the other one in the far corner has created a ridge. I might take the head out and make sure it's clean before I try and fix any damage and re-seed.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Grass babies! :bandit:


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Update on the new lawn, its coming in great especially that little strip. If that's an indication of the eventual colour I'll be thrilled! 




Also did some spraying. I put down humic, kelp and phosphite (Amvista Phyter) mixed with the Amvista wetting agent on my brother in law's and my lawns with a coarse nozzle. 14 litres of liquid on your back doesn't half get heavy really fast! I then got brave and put down 3ml of PGR on my back lawn with a finer nozzle. On a basis of 24ml per 100m2 of primo maxx I halfed it for double strength, took it down to 7.2ml for 60m2 then halfed it again. Its likely just over half rate given the generic stuff is just over twice the strength of Primo. I coupled that with a heavy dose of iron to counteract any yellowing.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

It is a learning curve with the PGR, thumbs up for the rates you used.

The newbie grass will only get darker, so if you are happy now then cool cool super cool :thumbup:


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Fertilised today all over (one cheeky pass on the new lawn) with the Vitax 15-2-8. I didn't realise it had been almost four weeks since the last feed so put it down again at 15g m2. I thought given the PGR application it would need it, especially given that almost all the Poa has turned a deep grey. Hopefully with a bit of a push the existing grass will start to spread into those Poa patches.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

bigbew said:


> Fertilised today all over (one cheeky pass on the new lawn) with the Vitax 15-2-8. I didn't realise it had been almost four weeks since the last feed so put it down again at 15g m2. I thought given the PGR application it would need it, especially given that almost all the Poa has turned a deep grey. Hopefully with a bit of a push the existing grass will start to spread into those Poa patches.


Interesting, do you have any closeup photos of the poa turning deep grey?


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

@Mark B I do have these pics. You can see the grey patches in the bigger pic, they are where the Poa is mostly present. The zoomed in one is of one of those section, it severely stunts the Poa, though I don't think enough to kill it or do any permanent damage especially at these low doses.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

You planning to stunt the poa with the pgr and keep up the overseeding of the prg? 
Primomaxx rates for HOCs higher than 18mm for prg max out at 30ml/100m², poa a/prg blend max out at 24ml. Seems like if you could work your way up to high rates you would have a chance to have the poa a suffer with phototoxicity while the prg is ok.

My poa a went grey in my pgr test patch too, its now the best looking patch of my lawn a month later.


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## Matty316 (Apr 2, 2020)

Was it Moddus that you've been using?


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## GlynRS2 (Apr 9, 2019)

You can occasionally get Moddus a lot cheaper than that.
However, if you don't want to stick to a branded Syngenta product you can get an equivalent generic Trinexapac-Ethyl at the same 250g/L concentration for much less at Farm Marketplace:
here


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Yeah that's what I use, the generic stuff, it comes branded as Sabre.

I ran the thatch rake over a couple of patches this morning and it pulled loads out, enough for me to be tempted with a scarify this afternoon. I was reluctant to do it given the grass has been treated with PGR and would need to recover.

I will work my way up to a full dose hopefully by September when I can start on my irrigation, aerate, overseed and top dress


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## Matty316 (Apr 2, 2020)

GlynRS2 said:


> You can occasionally get Moddus a lot cheaper than that.
> However, if you don't want to stick to a branded Syngenta product you can get an equivalent generic Trinexapac-Ethyl at the same 250g/L concentration for much less at Farm Marketplace:
> here


Thanks for that


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

When to mow?

I have some bare spots in the new front lawn, but the rest of it is looking really thick and full and ready for a cut.

I'm happy to let it thicken up a bit once mowing starts and top dress and overseed the bare patches. This is 9 days post germination.


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

Looking good, what's the height measure at? It looks to me like around 2 inches I'd be cutting that.

Do you think the bare patches have germination, just slower? If no germination might be worth hand sowing some more seeds there.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Most of it is around 2 inches, but the most established patches are closer to 2 and a half. I'm looking to maintain on my mowers lowest setting of 20mm, around 3/4 inch. Hence why I thought about mowing now, I have a setting at 1 and 3/4 inches so it would just clip the tops off.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

1-3/4" would be optimal right now, IMHO. It will balance density with root depth. Once established, you could go lower, if you wish.

FWIW, my reel mower topped out at 1.5", which wasn't quite high enough for me, when summer heat hit. I had to go to the rotary at 2". I'm still drooling over the Swardman's and think 1.75" would be optimal for me.

It looks like you have a good start! Keep up the good work and get some humic/kelp/alfalfa down, if you can.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

The window cleaner kindly trampled on my new grass today, so I thought it was as good a time as any to give it its first cut before this weeks rain comes. 55mm, quite patchy so overseeded the bare spots, hopefully they'll come in soon and the rest will start to thicken up. I'm thrilled with the bits that have come up though, lovely colour for new grass.


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## GlynRS2 (Apr 9, 2019)

Looking good!


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

Looking very good colour wise.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Front had another mow yesterday before the rain, really starting to thicken up. Though I didn't take the neighbours bush into account when doing this! I might have to stick to a certain pattern or go with double wide stripes as I can't get the mower in at the far end 



Also an update on the Brother in law's, it has filled in wonderfully over the last six weeks, the bare spots are almost gone. I'm really impressed with how well it's done since March, we'll hit it in September with some core aeration, top dress and overseeding. In the mean time I'll continue to feed, threw down the Vitax 15-2-8 yesterday at 20g m2 to keep it ticking over during summer.


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

Looking good mate!

Is it a Laurel? Those will grow quickly and start getting close to your nice strip.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Not sure. We generally haven't had issues with growing into each other's property, and I'm sure they'd cut it back if I asked. They trimmed a tree out the back when it was blocking our (the wife's) sun.


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## Matty316 (Apr 2, 2020)

Looking good mate


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Really pushing along nicely now. Been three days since a mow and I think I cut about an inch off it, crazy growth. Thinking about bringing it down half an inch lower for its next cut, maybe tomorrow.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

I love perennial rye. Took it down to 45mm, stripes look excellent! Some germination along the edges and in the spot the sprinkler did some damage, but nothing in that patch you can see on photos. I think I might wait a while to deal with it, let it thicken up, spray the weeds then top dress in a few weeks to even out the bumpyness and fix that patch.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Very nice, when is your next feed for the new grass? Any plans for pgr? Seems like almost a necessity if its growing that fast!


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Mark B said:


> Very nice, when is your next feed for the new grass? Any plans for pgr? Seems like almost a necessity if its growing that fast!


I gave it a small dose of 15-2-8 last week after feeding my bro in laws, just dumped the remainder on both front lawns.

I'm hesitant to use PGR until I've got the patches filled in, the weeds killed and the grass firmly established and cut down to its eventual height of 20mm. I've got two settings left on the mower before I get there so hopefully by the time I'm down to 20mm those other things will have been taken care of. Excited to see what it can do to pure grass without Poa in there. The back although it looks patchy from the Poa and bumpyness, does have a lovely colour and feels much softer to the touch.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Big update, I've neglected this post but been doing my Instagram more frequently https://www.instagram.com/bigbew14_lawns/

Wife got sick of seeing the crap KBG alongside the new rye so she gave me permission to do a reno on it. The rye meanwhile is looking schmick!



Managed to get the KBG killed off mostly, core aerated, top dressed and seeded with the BAR extreme rye, also moved a sprinkler head to get better coverage and avoid soaking the path. I suck at taking photos so here's the after from last night, just got to keep up on the watering now and hope for the best.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

I'll race you! July 31st was my seed down.
Kidding, that PRG beats allcomers for speed!
The Miracle KBG not such a miracle for you? Was it the PGR that caused you issues with it?

edit: one more... If you are using the same mower to mow these new areas, do you wash the wheels etc to prevent carrying poa A seeds from the back? Just a thought.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Mark B said:


> I'll race you! July 31st was my seed down.
> Kidding, that PRG beats allcomers for speed!
> The Miracle KBG not such a miracle for you? Was it the PGR that caused you issues with it?
> 
> edit: one more... If you are using the same mower to mow these new areas, do you wash the wheels etc to prevent carrying poa A seeds from the back? Just a thought.


I think the Miracle would have been fine grass had I done it right, but just had too many issues. I think I tried it too early in the year and stunted it too soon with the PGR. It came up lovely in my bare areas but there was too much Poa for it to be effective in the main stand. Where it did come up it was a lush deep, dark green though, would recommend it highly if you're committed to it. I also think it's just a few degrees too cold up here for it, may work better down south where its just a bit warmer.

My mower I'm not as careful as I should be. I mow the PRG first but don't clean it as often as I should. I might give it a good service today and clean everything out properly ready for the new lawn coming up.

The PRG looks like it's struggling a bit so last night I took it down to its final height of 20mm, fed it with the Vitax 15-2-8 then sprayed it with Triphos and wetting agent. Also sprayed the new dirt to help it along with germination. I'm hopeful with two apps of gly and a few spot sprays that the green bits poking through the dirt will eventually die off and it'll be a nice clean stand.

I picked up another project lawn a few weeks ago, my best friend who lives a couple of estates over. He has 125m2 across front and back. Both were infested with weeds, particularly the back along the shady fence line was all clover. Sprayed it a few weeks ago with broadleaf killer and fed with the remaining 6-5-10 with 6%fe I had left over. Handily it turned out I had exactly the 4.5kg left in the bag to cover him at 35g m/2!

Hes reporting its massively come on and I drove by the other day and the difference is visible. I'm heading over tomorrow to scarify and feed so will post more pics, but here's a few he took on the day of the spray.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

New lawn is looking good 15 days after seed going down. The established rye is looking even better despite not being able to cut it in five days, liquid iron made it so dark. It's sitting at 32 mm now, took it down to 45 yesterday during the gaps in the rain. Had torrential downpour this morning and sun this afternoon so it's been great weather. Also dropped a few seeds in the bare spots around the edge to take advantage of the upcoming rain.


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

That does look an awesome dark green. Where did you get the liquid iron from?


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

lfrancis said:


> That does look an awesome dark green. Where did you get the liquid iron from?


Pitchcare, Maxwell Bullet FE.

It's a big bottle of the stuff, my assumption was I'd use lots of it so it was worth the investment.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Mates project lawn coming along nicely, before and after a scarify and feed. Almost all the weeds gone and looking great!


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## Essexlawn (Oct 27, 2020)

> Also did some spraying. I put down humic, kelp and phosphite (Amvista Phyter) mixed with the Amvista wetting agent on my brother in law's


Have been lurking around on the forums and this is my first post. Was interested in knowing a bit more about the Amvista Phyter product - would you recommend and what does this help the lawn with?


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