# Lower HOC after dormancy



## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

I'm trying to find a way to reduce the work involved in my first major back yard scalp-n-bag next Spring. The area is 10K sf and the HOC currently about 2". It'll probably take a week to scalp down to dirt and then bag all that dead grass. The number of 60 gallon bags I'll fill is just unthinkable. I absolutely dread it. So I have an idea.

Suppose I semi-scalp the Bermuda down to about 1" HOC after it goes dormant this Fall. If I spread the clippings out evenly with a blower, I figure most of the material will either wash or blow away by next Spring. That's about half the mass gone. The remaining Bermuda should "shelter" the roots well enough until Spring since we don't get extreme cold here in North Alabama. Obviously, I don't care if my back yard is ugly this Winter.

So... is this is a dumb idea? Do you disagree that there's a strong risk of winter kill? Any thoughts?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I have often considered a couple "incremental scalps" during the off season to cut down on the amount of work/clippings in the spring, but just never get around to it.

I wouldn't be too worried about winter kill at 1" HOC on an established lawn, but going from 2" to 1" is going to produce a lot more clippings than you would think - way more than I would feel comfortable leaving on the ground.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Would you be comfortable with taking a 1/2 inch off per month and bagging in the winter? You would end up with the same number of 60-gallon bags but you would be breaking it up into bite sized chunks each month. Over the 2 or 3 months of solid dormancy you could get it close for the spring hard scalp.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

When I scalped my back yard which is more than twice the size of yours I think it was something like 18-21 large bags. Your only talking about going down an inch so I don't think it will be too big of a deal...


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

Ware said:


> I wouldn't be too worried about winter kill at 1" HOC on an established lawn, but going from 2" to 1" is going to produce a lot more clippings than you would think - way more than I would feel comfortable leaving on the ground.


Thanks! Y'all have given me the courage to test this out. I just don't think you understand how much I loath bagging up clippings. I mean, I really hate it. Even more than chain saws and gas string trimmers. I certainly don't want to do it several times.

I think I'll try taking my Ego to its lowest setting just to see how many clippings are produced. I think that's about a half-inch drop. Hopefully, the clippings will be very dry and a leaf blower can bust up and clumps and spread them out. If that goes well, I'll wait a few weeks and then see how the Electra does at about 1" HOC in "Beast Mode". If they clippings are too thick to leave, then I'll just wait until next Spring and go straight to dirt all at once and bag it up.


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## dpainter68 (Apr 26, 2017)

@hsvtoolfool I imagine you'll get a lot of the little ridges of dead grass that build up in miniature mountain ranges throughout your yard.

Another option to the dozens of garbage bags... Back when I lived in the city limits I went to Lowe's/HD and got a 100' roll of plastic that's 10' wide. Cut a 10' section off so you have a 10'x10' tarp basically. Dump your clippings in it. When it gets to the point you can barely tie the opposite corners together, tie them up and drag it to the road. Sure beats dumping clippings into bags and having to deal with that mess. It won't be that heavy, especially with dormant grass. I would scalp my 12,500 sqft yard from 1" down to about 3/8" and only need about two of them.

Edit: or just burn it in the spring


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

hsvtoolfool said:


> ...I just don't think you understand how much I loath bagging up clippings.


Oh me too, but I have yet to be disappointed with the results when I do. :thumbup:


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Ware said:


> I have often considered a couple "incremental scalps" during the off season to cut down on the amount of work/clippings in the spring, but just never get around to it.
> 
> I wouldn't be too worried about winter kill at 1" HOC on an established lawn, but going from 2" to 1" is going to produce a lot more clippings than you would think - way more than I would feel comfortable leaving on the ground.


I did this this year but it was in the late winter. I want to say in late January or February I took it down a notch. Waited a few weeks and took it down another notch. At that point I was at 1.75" knowing I could only scalp to 1.25". There wasn't a lot of clippings when the scalping happened. Granted it is nowhere near as low as you are going.


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## LoCutt (Jul 29, 2019)

I always *thought* you should raise your HOC in the fall, with this extra blanket being insulation for the roots/rhizomes in the soil and a wear pad. That said, I never read anywhere or heard anyone knowledgeable say to do so. Leaving huge amounts of clippings on the lawn just sounds wrong to me, but I can't defend the idea either way. I also have a 48 inch cut Walker GHS, and picking up the clippings with it is no problem. I keep the Walker because it will vacuum my leaves in the fall.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

LoCutt said:


> I always *thought* you should raise your HOC in the fall, with this extra blanket being insulation for the roots/rhizomes in the soil and a wear pad. That said, I never read anywhere or heard anyone knowledgeable say to do so...


I think it's all relative. For example, is someone who raises their HOC from 1/2" to 3/4" better off than someone who lowers their HOC from 2" to 1-1/2"?

:dunno:

That said, I'm fortunate to not have to worry too much about winterkill with bermuda in my climate.


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## david_ (Aug 22, 2019)

Fwiw, I just did 2" to 1" on 8k and it was about 11 paper lawn bags not quite full.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I always thought people raised the HOC in the fall so that you have a nice even brown carpet over the winter, though I am lucky like @Ware that I don't have any winter kill here. I don't even think it goes fully dormant over the winter.

I would DEFINITELY not leave 1/2" to 1" of clippings on the lawn even during dormancy.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

dpainter68 said:


> Cut a 10' section off so you have a 10'x10' tarp basically. Dump your clippings in it. When it gets to the point you can barely tie the opposite corners together, tie them up and drag it to the road.


Brilliant idea! I love it. I'm also considering dumping the grass in a field behind my neighbor's privacy fence. If I get busted, I'll either pretend I don't know who did it or use the "Chewbacca Defense".

I guess my basic goal is finding a way to manage the clippings efficiently on-site. I'd love to just burn the whole yard, but I'm a scaredy cat. Not to mention the sweet, elderly, widow lady next door would FUH-REAK if my back yard was burning!



Redtwin said:


> I always thought people raised the HOC in the fall so that you have a nice even brown carpet over the winter...


My plan is to just not look at the back yard until Spring. In preparation, I haven't washed my windows or gotten my eyes checked for ages.

Seriously, I won't leave really thick clippings to rot. If my experimental cut creates a ton of material that I can't blow around and hide with my Ego Backpack, then I'll just drop the idea.

Thanks for all the input! I'll post the results when it finally gets cold and the Bermuda is dormant.


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## dpainter68 (Apr 26, 2017)

hsvtoolfool said:


> dpainter68 said:
> 
> 
> > Cut a 10' section off so you have a 10'x10' tarp basically. Dump your clippings in it. When it gets to the point you can barely tie the opposite corners together, tie them up and drag it to the road.
> ...


I'm definitely going burning from now on. Although I admit I'm a little timid to burn right at 44k sqft of grass... I won't know what that's like until spring of 2021 anyways though (unless I burn off the PRG in the spring...). Dumping it behind the fence is a viable option also. I used to do that as well at the old house until they built behind me. That's when I started with the 10x10 plastic. Sure beat trying to dump the clippings into bags.


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## MGC (Jun 4, 2017)

no worries imo after the first hard freeze and the bermuda goes dormant i always bring my lawn down to a nice level 1" height over winter and yes way less work in the spring heck the guys with reels cutting a 5/8 inch or less never have issues or golf courses , go for it . cheers


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## Way2low01 (Mar 9, 2019)

I just took my two acres from 2.25 down to 1.75. Tons of clippings, but without a bagger system on my mower ($2,000, maybe next year) I just raised the deck back up and went over the lawn again to spread the clippings. Worked out pretty well. Goal is to go into winter with a 2" hoc. Yard was so green, looks like a desert now.


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## CH-Johnson (Apr 28, 2017)

I watched one of my neighbors burn about 10k worth of Bermuda this spring. It was touch and go at times with waist high flames. When it was done it looked bad for a week or two and then it looked amazing. I'm tempted to do it but I'm afraid I'd lose the house in the process.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

I have never lowered my HOC going into dormancy or ever cut during winter. I have maintained the backyard at 2 to 2 1/2" and currently at 2 1/2". I'm thinking of cutting it down 1/4" at a time to 1 1/2" for the winter. I'm afraid that 1" would be really bad considering how uneven the back is.

Now for the front I have had it as low as 1/2" with reel mower but currently at 1 1/2" with rotary and I will leave it there through the winter. I have considered going down to 1" but the rotary scalps at that length. Next spring the front will get a full scalp, aeration and sand leveling. After which I will go back to reel mowing...

Any thoughts or suggestions??


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

ctrav said:


> I have never lowered my HOC going into dormancy or ever cut during winter. I have maintained the backyard at 2 to 2 1/2" and currently at 2 1/2". I'm thinking of cutting it down 1/4" at a time to 1 1/2" for the winter. I'm afraid that 1" would be really bad considering how uneven the back is.
> 
> Now for the front I have had it as low as 1/2" with reel mower but currently at 1 1/2" with rotary and I will leave it there through the winter. I have considered going down to 1" but the rotary scalps at that length. Next spring the front will get a full scalp, aeration and sand leveling. After which I will go back to reel mowing...
> 
> Any thoughts or suggestions??


As good as your lawn is looking there isn't much I can offer you. You keep doing what you're doing.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

TN Hawkeye said:


> ctrav said:
> 
> 
> > I have never lowered my HOC going into dormancy or ever cut during winter. I have maintained the backyard at 2 to 2 1/2" and currently at 2 1/2". I'm thinking of cutting it down 1/4" at a time to 1 1/2" for the winter. I'm afraid that 1" would be really bad considering how uneven the back is.
> ...


You are too kind buddy! I ask these types of questions to gain knowledge from others experience in my quest to fine tune the lawn.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

Okay, I finally finished the back yard semi-scalp but it was a total pain with my Ego rotatory mulcher. The battery is fine for regular mowing chores, but it only lasted about 1200 SF per charge when scalping into the thick bermuda stolon canopy. After lowering the HOC from the #2 setting to the #1 setting, it took almost a full week of daily mowing a section, draining the battery, then recharging and continuing later that day or the next. So I'll never use the Ego again for that chore. But that's okay, from here on out my entire property gets cut with the Swardman (with a few exceptions for steep slopes).

Anyway, the local drought has put the back yard to sleep so the mulching went better than I expected. The resulting clippings were fine and dry. Very dusty too! The clippings totally disappeared into the canopy. There was nothing visible on the grass except brown. I'll continue to mow at the #1 setting for the rest of the year, but I don't expect much growth unless we get plenty of rain while it's still 80° and up.

I kinda hope the open bermuda canopy and thatch layer will make my Fall Pre-M application more effective over Winter. Late next February and into early March, I'll scalp to dirt and bag with the reel mower, scarify, de-thatch, and then spray the Spring Pre-M application. Then I order tons of sand and prep for leveling while I wait for greenup.

My back hurts already. And to think I used to go crappie fishing in February.


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## ram82 (Dec 19, 2018)

I just leave it at 2-3" all fall -winter and scalp in spring.why does thatch matter over winter?why do people dethatch in fall or spring if your gonna scalp anyways?why dethatch with a tine dethatcher?isn't this double the work if your gonna scalp in spring?


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## Kicker (Apr 5, 2018)

ram82 said:


> I just leave it at 2-3" all fall -winter and scalp in spring.why does thatch matter over winter?why do people dethatch in fall or spring if your gonna scalp anyways?why dethatch with a tine dethatcher?isn't this double the work if your gonna scalp in spring?


With a lawn as large as OP's, he's trying to achieve the same results of a spring scalp/dethatch while reducing or spreading out the workload.

When you scalp in the spring it doesn't always remove the thatch layer. The point of using the tine dethatcher is to expose the soil surface to allow water, nutrients, and sunlight (heat) to penetrate into the soil to bring the lawn out of dormancy. The scalp prior to dethatching is to remove all the dormant or dead material to be able to remove the thatch. But, if you can use a mower to scalp down to dirt (not thatch) then by all means that'd be one less task and i'm all for it.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

ram82 said:


> why do people dethatch in fall or spring if your gonna scalp anyways?


I guess I forgot to specifically state that I'm "mowing low" in my back yard next year. My planned HOC next year will be 3/4" (same as my front yard). Maybe my idea makes more sense in that context. I'm just trying to reduce my work next Spring by planning ahead. With luck, all the clippings I made will just magically disappear.

@Kicker covered the rest. Scalping doesn't affect the thatch layer or remove old clippings from the under-canopy. Cutting into that top 1" of topsoil opens up the thatch layer and lets in more sun, water, and fertilizer for better root growth. Bermuda absolutely loves that. It made a huge difference in my front lawn this year. I'm really sold on it.

Next Spring will be a huge project for me. In fact, I may be biting off way more than I can chew. I'll have to start in late February and probably won't "finish" before Summer is over. No doubt my neighbors will think I'm nuts. Well, even more nuts.


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## ram82 (Dec 19, 2018)

hsvtoolfool said:


> ram82 said:
> 
> 
> > why do people dethatch in fall or spring if your gonna scalp anyways?
> ...


thank you,I think I got confused on thread and had to look to beginning again,makes sense.i actually used to dethatch my Bermuda in October but October is busy for me so I just deal with it all in spring.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

@hsvtoolfool

Have you considered burning it down in the spring instead of scalping?


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

cglarsen said:


> Have you considered burning it down in the spring instead of scalping?


Yeah, and it's very appealing for several reasons. My back yard is a perfect application since it's big, open, and relatively easy to contain. But my sweet, elderly, neighbor lady would fuh-reeek! I'd hate to see an ambulance arrive at her house while I'm spraying water on my burning yard.


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## reidgarner (Jun 18, 2018)

Incremental "scalps" throughout the winter is exactly what I did as a contractor. We would cut our properties every 3-4 weeks throughout the winter (Nov-Jan) and lower the HOC each time. Then when the weather would begin to warm in mid to late Feb, we resumed cutting weekly and brought it down the rest of the way one notch a week at a time. Never had any issues with too much clipping waste or had problems with winter kill. It also makes the dormant turf look much better throughout the winter because it cleans up all of the "winter trash," ie leaves and other debris. Plus it helps keep that nice golden brown color. If you let dormant Bermuda go without cutting too long it starts to look worn, dingy, and gray. And I think stripes on dormant Bermuda look pretty dang good! I cut my .4" reel mowed Bermuda with a rotary every few weeks in the winter for this very reason.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

reidgarner said:


> Incremental "scalps" throughout the winter is exactly what I did as a contractor. We would cut our properties every 3-4 weeks throughout the winter (Nov-Jan) and lower the HOC each time. Then when the weather would begin to warm in mid to late Feb, we resumed cutting weekly and brought it down the rest of the way one notch a week at a time. Never had any issues with too much clipping waste or had problems with winter kill. It also makes the dormant turf look much better throughout the winter because it cleans up all of the "winter trash," ie leaves and other debris. Plus it helps keep that nice golden brown color. If you let dormant Bermuda go without cutting too long it starts to look worn, dingy, and gray. And I think stripes on dormant Bermuda look pretty dang good! I cut my .4" reel mowed Bermuda with a rotary every few weeks in the winter for this very reason.


I like this approach the best. Clippings will still decay in cold weather just at a slower rate.


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