# Fall pre-m application



## CPA Nerd (May 8, 2018)

I've never applied a fall pre-emergent. Will a basic Scotts Halts or generic fertilizer+crabgrass preventer with prodiamine do the job?

I am thinking of purchasing this from www.domyown.com because it does not contain fertilizer:

https://www.domyown.com/crabgrass-control-plus-with-037-prodiamine-herbicide-p-18791.html

Would I just apply the minimum rate (2.7 lbs per 1,000 square feet) in spring and again in fall?


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## CPA Nerd (May 8, 2018)

Anybody?


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

The product you linked to will work fine. I'd prefer to use this though https://www.domyown.com/prodiamine-65-wdg-generic-barricade-p-2495.html. It's a granular powder that you mix and spray instead of applying with a spreader. The one you linked to only covers 12,500 sq ft. This one is almost the same price but will last you much longer.


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## CPA Nerd (May 8, 2018)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> The product you linked to will work fine. I'd prefer to use this though https://www.domyown.com/prodiamine-65-wdg-generic-barricade-p-2495.html. It's a granular powder that you mix and spray instead of applying with a spreader. The one you linked to only covers 12,500 sq ft. This one is almost the same price but will last you much longer.


Thank you. I don't like spraying because I am not confident in my ability to do so evenly. Would a store bought crabgrass preventer + fertilizer like Halts work? Menards has one with dithiopyr that is reasonably priced and is what I used in the spring. Just wondering what active ingredient is necessary for controlling winter annuals. Do any of them work, i.e. dithiopyr, prodiamine, pendimethalin?


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

@CPA Nerd store bought locally is fine. I use Prodiamine for Spring and Fall pre-em. So far so good. I plan to apply my Fall pre-em in the next 2 weeks.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Any will work. I prefer prodiamine. Go with store bought (it might be in clearance).


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## CPA Nerd (May 8, 2018)

Thanks guys. I'll just use the "Step 1" Menards application again in late August.

Is this plan decent:

April: Crabgrass preventer + synthetic fertilizer 0.75 lbs N/1k
May: Menards Milorganite substitute 0.50 lbs N/1k
September: Crabgrass preventer + synthetic fertilizer 0.75 lbs N/1k
October: Menards Milorganite substitute 0.50 lbs N/1k
November: Synthethic "winterizer" fertilizer 0.80 lbs N/1k

This allows me the following benefits:
1. Can purchase all at the same store.
2. Spring and fall Pre-m.
3. Two organic applications per year for soil health.
4. Potassium from the synthetics in three applications, with the most being in the winterizer.
5. No liquids, which I am not comfortable applying, at least with herbicides.
6. Cheaper than other options I was considering.

If I overseed, I would swap out the September application with a synthetic fertilizer with no pre-m.

Any flaws or things I could/should be doing differently?


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## saidtheblueknight (Jul 10, 2019)

Personally, I would move the October Milo clone to the summer and replace it with a synthetic or nothing at all since you already have one in September and a winterizer in early November.

Here's my reasoning: The organic slow release fertilizer requires soil microbes to activate the nutrients, and those guys will be all but checked out by October in Chicago. And due to the slow release nature of it all, you might not get much nutrient release by the time the microbes fully stop as the weather gets colder. In contrast, the middle of the summer will be the perfect time for this type of fertilizer, not only because it's mild hitting and slow, but because at that time the microbes will be thriving and will go to town on the nutrients. Also, you are going 4 full months without a feeding from May to September, and a slow release organic will be perfect for a mid summer snack.



CPA Nerd said:


> Thanks guys. I'll just use the "Step 1" Menards application again in late August.
> 
> Is this plan decent:
> 
> ...


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## CPA Nerd (May 8, 2018)

saidtheblueknight said:


> Personally, I would move the October Milo clone to the summer and replace it with a synthetic or nothing at all since you already have one in September and a winterizer in early November.
> 
> Here's my reasoning: The organic slow release fertilizer requires soil microbes to activate the nutrients, and those guys will be all but checked out by October in Chicago. And due to the slow release nature of it all, you might not get much nutrient release by the time the microbes fully stop as the weather gets colder. In contrast, the middle of the summer will be the perfect time for this type of fertilizer, not only because it's mild hitting and slow, but because at that time the microbes will be thriving and will go to town on the nutrients. Also, you are going 4 full months without a feeding from May to September, and a slow release organic will be perfect for a mid summer snack.


Good thoughts, thank you. Would two fall applications be enough? Like the below:

April: Crabgrass preventer + synthetic fertilizer 0.75 lbs N/1k
May: Menards Milorganite substitute 0.50 lbs N/1k
July: Menards Milorganite substitute 0.50 lbs N/1k
September: Crabgrass preventer + synthetic fertilizer 0.75 lbs N/1k
November: Synthethic "winterizer" fertilizer 0.80 lbs N/1k

This only gives me about 1.55 lbs of N in the fall. Maybe I add another light synthetic application of say 0.50 lbs N in October, which would give me 3.8 lbs N/1k for the year.

I don't irrigate, if that makes a difference.


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## saidtheblueknight (Jul 10, 2019)

I would shoot for ~4lbs of N/1k so I don't think you need to do anymore in the fall.

What you could do is up the 2 summer organic feedings to their full application (Milo for example is 0.77) and that way you'll get another half pound overall giving you 3.8 for the year. You should not have any issues because Milo or the substitute is slow release organic so won't burn even at the full rate in the middle of the summer heat.


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

saidtheblueknight said:


> I would shoot for ~4lbs of N/1k so I don't think you need to do anymore in the fall.
> 
> What you could do is up the 2 summer organic feedings to their full application (Milo for example is 0.77) and that way you'll get another half pound overall giving you 3.8 for the year. You should not have any issues because Milo or the substitute is slow release organic so *won't burn even at the full rate in the middle of the summer heat.*


I can confirm this as I applied it in July and it didn't burn at all (we had 100 deg weather)


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

CPA Nerd said:


> saidtheblueknight said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I would move the October Milo clone to the summer and replace it with a synthetic or nothing at all since you already have one in September and a winterizer in early November.
> ...


I've heard people say don't put down N early spring, just use a pre-emergent to prevent grabgrass but without any fertilizer. Use the Milo at this time I guess (at a temp when the soil microbes get going).
It's a great idea if you have prodiamine, but if you are relying on store bought stuff I have yet to find a good alternative to scotts with Halts. As in, a product that is a granular pre-emergent but with no fert.


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## CPA Nerd (May 8, 2018)

Thanks all for your help. I've never put down a fall pre-m before because I've overseeded the last couple years. I'm debating whether I even need it. My yard has some weeds, but they seem to pop up later in the spring, so I don't know that a fall pre-m would even help. I do a spring pre-m in April.

I want to overseed one more year, but I've had some fungus issues this year and don't want to have to keep the entire lawn moist for two straight weeks. Was considering mowing low and throwing seed down when I see that they're calling for rain for several days in a row and hoping and praying for some germination.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

CPA Nerd said:


> Thanks all for your help. I've never put down a fall pre-m before because I've overseeded the last couple years. I'm debating whether I even need it. My yard has some weeds, but they seem to pop up later in the spring, so I don't know that a fall pre-m would even help. I do a spring pre-m in April.
> 
> I want to overseed one more year, but I've had some fungus issues this year and don't want to have to keep the entire lawn moist for two straight weeks. Was considering mowing low and throwing seed down when I see that they're calling for rain for several days in a row and hoping and praying for some germination.


You shouldn't need to worry about disease in Chicago in September. There are always exceptionally hot septembers so that's always possible. Once low temps get consistently below 60F you should be good to go. Some guys seed successfully in August and I used to do that until I got hit with Gray Leaf Spot last year. I'll never seed again before mid September but I'm a little further south than you. If you get your seed down in early september, you'll be fine.

The main disease issue on seedlings is damping off/pythium. If you want some insurance, then go ahead and run scott's diseasex at 4 lb's per K on the same day you seed or within a few days after.

Unless you have some very specific reason to do a Fall preM then I wouldn't do it. Most people don't. The best way to prevent cool season weeds is to establish a thick stand in the fall.

Next spring you may try a split application of your preM. We had a lot of rain this year and those that did a single preM had it wear down early.


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## CPA Nerd (May 8, 2018)

tgreen said:


> CPA Nerd said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks all for your help. I've never put down a fall pre-m before because I've overseeded the last couple years. I'm debating whether I even need it. My yard has some weeds, but they seem to pop up later in the spring, so I don't know that a fall pre-m would even help. I do a spring pre-m in April.
> ...


Thanks for the post. It's still too early to tell, but I'll likely just have a handful of spots to seed. In general the lawn is fairly thick. I'll probably skip the pre-m, seed the bare spots and hand water those for a couple weeks. I'll also likely spread some seed at a low rate, may be 2-3 lbs/1k on the entire lawn before a few days of rain is called for. It can't hurt. I'll also blast it with a couple pounds of synthetic nitrogen from September through November.


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