# smartbutpoor's Lawn Journal - 2021



## smartbutpoor (Mar 12, 2021)

*Location*

 ON, Canada
 *USDA Hardiness Zone*: 5b
 *Canada Plant Hardiness Zone*: 6a (transition 6a/6b)

*Grass*

 Existing grass is cool season grass (don't know the exact type)
 Overseeded with Scotts Turf Builder (Sun & Shade Mix) in Fall 2020

*Area*

 *Front*: 300 sq ft
 *Back*: 250 sq ft
 *Boulevard*: 250 sq ft

*Soil Test*
I ordered a Soil Probe tool from Amazon and I should receive it tomorrow. I will send samples to Waypoint TN as soon as I can and hope to receive the results soon.

*Lawn Care Arsenal*

*Lawn Mower*

 RYOBI 20-inch 40V Walk Behind Push Lawn Mower (electric, cordless)
Also planning to buy a Checkmate 20" Universal Striping Kit but it's _Sold Out_ right now. I was torn between this one and the Toro striping kit but I have heard that while Toro is easy to hook/unhook, it is difficult to maneuver and the plastic tube is not very durable. Other 20" kits are available, but I don't know which one to buy.

*Goodies*

 Gordon's Amine 400 2,4-D Weed Killer Concentrate
 Resolute Prodiamine 4 FL
 Meso 4SC Mesotrione (Tenacity alternative)
 Southern Ag Brush Killer (ordered Alligare Triclopyr 4 but received this by mistake)

Before, I only had this stuff that's available in Canada:

 35% Industrial Vinegar
 PathClear Grass and Weed Killer Concentrate (Ammonium soaps of fatty acids) but this is for weeds/grass growing between brick pavers and not really the lawn

*Things that I want to tackle*

 Bumpy front lawn
 Bare Patches in both the front and the back lawn
 Minimize weeds

*Photos*


Yesterday, sans sunlight before rain.


Today. You can see so much bare soil around the vegetation. Wasted space.


Also, behind the leftmost emerald cedar is more wasted space and bare soil that's hard to take care because it's obscured. Seeding/overseeding behind is challenging to water.

There seems to be sprinklers in the ground, but neighbors say they haven't seen them work in years and I don't know how to use them.


Looking from the house to the road - the green grass nearby is Scott's Turf Builder Sun and Shade that I laid down last fall. You can almost trace the zig-zag line between new grass and existing grass at the front. Also, space for this Scott's seed was made by removing large unkempt hosta plants. You can also spot weeds in the bare patch.


A labeled image


Back Lawn


A labeled image


Some weeds in the front


Some more weeds in the front

*General thoughts*

This is my first time owning a lawn ever. I took possession of the neglected lawn in June 2020 in the middle of a hot summer - the lawn wasn't cared for in the Spring.

I had to deal with (rather unsuccessfully, I must say) the following weeds last year in summer/fall:

 Canada Thistle - absolute nightmare to deal with
 Crabgrass
 Prostrate Spurge
 Wood Sorrel / Oxalis
 Purslane
 Dandelion (don't bother me so much except when they grow between the bricks)
 An annoying tiny little weed that looks like parsley and spreads like wildfire
 Some more weeds
 Moss in one shady part of the back lawn with poor drainage and less sunlight

Canada Thistle and Crabgrass are absolute nightmares to deal with. Also, since I am in Canada there were no good products to use for weeds (situation has changed, now that I discovered this forum and SeedWorldUSA)

A few things that stump me about my lawns:

 Despite having much more space in the front, the actual turf is just the same size as the tiny lawn in the back! (300sqft in front vs 250sqft at the back)

 I don't like the landscaping in the front (emerald cedar arborvitae, day lilies, etc... also, the curve around some of these plants). It makes mowing difficult and reduces the area for grass significantly. I probably need to hire a landscaping company to move vegetation around but I do not have a design in mind yet, and I don't want to spend money on hiring out without a plan (ideas and suggestions welcome)

 The front lawn is sloped. It is bumpy - bare patches from before, and bare patches from where I yanked out Canada Thistle :-\

 The boulevard is smoother than the lawn. Again, this could be because it's just so much easier and straightforward to mow the boulevard. The lawn on the other hand is sloped and has curves, and it's long not wide and I usually end up mowing up and down without changing directions between mows which I really shouldn't do.


*Watering*
I have a rotating sprinkler that's too big for my front lawn and it just sprays all over the driveway as well.. The geometry of both front and back lawns is such that it's hard to keep the water within the lawns.

So, I just water the lawns with a hose in the old fashioned way by attaching a sprinkler nozzle and don't use the sprinkler.

There also seems to be "Orbit Pulse" sprinkler heads in the ground, both in front and back. But I don't know how they're powered or connected. It's probably a really old system as the neighbors haven't seen it used in years and the previous owners didn't tell us anything about it. I have seen a manifold in one spot, and there are a few electrical boxes here and there in the backyard but, again, I don't know what they are for. There are also rubber pipes (some sort of irrigation) that come out of the ground in the beds along one of my fences but, again, I don't know if they're intact under the ground or damaged.

[Question for all of you, what kind of professional can inspect, repair or replace this system for me? I can post pictures, if anyone's interested in taking a look.]

*The goal*
I'd very much like to follow the Cool Season Lawn Guide advice and take baby steps to get to Tier 1 and progress to Tier 2 eventually.

*Strategy*
Well, please help me figure out one. This is going to by my first Spring with the lawns and I am looking for help putting together a Spring lawn care plan.

The weather is starting to get warmer. The average day time temperature for the next 7 days is 12-13°C with highs of 19°C on some days.

I was watching Ryan Knorr spring lawn care videos and I have decided not to put any fertilizer down just yet and let the grass grow naturally and develop roots instead.

I would like to spray weeds and get pre-emergent down within this month. Tomorrow is sunny with clear day and night skies but it's raining every night (and most days) for the next 6 days after that so I am not sure if I can do it within this week.

So what should be my plan now? Pre-emergent, then seed the bare spots after 3-4 weeks and then add the fertilizer?

Again, I am still learning and do not really know what I am talking about so any suggestions and action plans are absolutely welcome, especially from others in the Ontario/GTA region. Given the things that I have, what would you recommend as course of action for me?

I'll continue to update this post, and track progress in this thread. It's been great just writing all of this down, taking stock of my situation and inventory of things I have.

Thanks in advance.


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## SodFace (Jul 17, 2020)

Pre-em - needs to be watered in. Spray during the day before a rainfall and you won't need to use sprinklers. I think the recommendation is like 12 mm so check the forecast. I want to get mine down this week but the rain coming is so little (1.5mm, etc) that I'd need to water anyway. Avoid spraying the areas you want to seed. Can use your mesotrione on the day of seeding and then check the label...can be reapplied later on to keep new weed growth out.

As for post-emergents like your 2,4-D etc they'll be effective as long as they dry before rain. Best to choose a dry day for sure, though.

Looks like the areas you have that are bare are quite small so maybe consider sodding them. You have a mixed lawn anyways. That triangle area at the front beside your driveway will be troublesome to keep lush. You may need to do some alternative landscaping later on.

I would get an irrigation company out for a quote. They may be able to reuse some or all of the system. If you make a detailed post in the irrigation subforum someone may be able to help you identify everything.


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## weirj55 (Apr 13, 2020)

Ditto on the waiting with the preM. If you are planning to overseed or reno you don't want to use preM now.

Depending on what you are looking to put into your lawn financially this year, I would start by getting a soil test, coming up with a plan based on that test, getting some good seed, and put in the work. You don't have an overly large area so that will keep costs down.

There is so much knowledge here on TLF... keep reading and writing. I look forward to your lawn journey! Good Luck!


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## smartbutpoor (Mar 12, 2021)

weirj55 said:


> Ditto on the waiting with the preM. If you are planning to overseed or reno you don't want to use preM now.
> 
> Depending on what you are looking to put into your lawn financially this year, I would start by getting a soil test, coming up with a plan based on that test, getting some good seed, and put in the work. You don't have an overly large area so that will keep costs down.
> 
> There is so much knowledge here on TLF... keep reading and writing. I look forward to your lawn journey! Good Luck!


@weirj55 First of all, thank you.

I have taken the soil samples already, just going to call Waypoint TN in the morning, make sure I have the right label and permit before I ship it off for testing.

To your other point, I think the current state of the lawn doesn't warrant a full reno. I can possibly engage a landscaping company to see if the decorative shrubs and cedars can be moved. The idea is to "simplify" the lawn and reclaim more space for grass. For example, the less than ideal triangle noted by @SodFace could be eliminated - would be so nice if it's just continuous lawn there. I am also thinking to DIY-remove the front porch deck and make it a flower bed instead. The grass will extend into the current flower bed.

I will continue to read and post my updates here  There's so much to learn from this community and hopefully experiences shared back will help someone else.

Also, read on for thoughts on seeding and pre-M..



SodFace said:


> Pre-em - needs to be watered in. Spray during the day before a rainfall and you won't need to use sprinklers. I think the recommendation is like 12 mm so check the forecast. I want to get mine down this week but the rain coming is so little (1.5mm, etc) that I'd need to water anyway. Avoid spraying the areas you want to seed. Can use your mesotrione on the day of seeding and then check the label...can be reapplied later on to keep new weed growth out.
> 
> As for post-emergents like your 2,4-D etc they'll be effective as long as they dry before rain. Best to choose a dry day for sure, though.
> 
> ...


@SodFace, looks like I am faced with a conundrum here.

Considering that bare patches in my lawns are numerous, but small, there are 3 possibilities. I try to list the pros and cons below:

*#1. Apply pre-emergent now. Bare spots this season. Seed/overseed in Fall.*
*Pros*:

Prevent weeds from growing in the first place.
Bare spots will remain (unless the KBG decides to expand a little bit ?!? )
Prevents more bare spots. Some bare spots happened last year because I had to pull out large Canada thistles, crabgrass, dandelions etc. If weeds don't emerge and establish, then there would be nothing to pull out and hopefully no additional bare patches
Spring seeding/overseeding is considered difficult, if not impossible, and a waste of time and money (especially if whatever grows cannot survive the summer) - so, savings?
*Cons*:

Bare spots (again, tiny but numerous) will remain until Fall - I can probably live with that. I think.
Risk of scalping in the bumpy areas when mowing over grass interspersed with bare spots (can mow this area at a greater height)

*#2. No pre-emergent now. Seed bare-spots with Meso. Spot spray weeds with post-emergent.*
*Pros:*

Bare spots might grow grass.

*Cons:*

Weeds will have a chance to emerge and would need more control
Crabgrass might emerge and take over

*#3. Sod the bare patches. Apply pre-emergent. Spot spray weeds with post-emergent.*
*Pros:*

Bare spots will have grass
Pre-em will prevent weeds from emerging

*Cons:*

Sod will have to be cut for each bare patch - sounds very tedious (or do I just remove even the healthy grass from patchy areas and lay sod?)

Let me know what you think - does it make any sense? I am thinking that #1 might be the way to go. I will take some photos tomorrow when its not raining, the wet dark bare spots would contrast better with the green grass just to give you a clearer idea.

I also have the following general questions, and welcome all input:

Since post-emergent is selective and affects broadleaf weeds generally, can I just blanket spray it?
Can I apply post-emergent on a dry day, soon after having applied pre-emergent (like after a few days)?
Can I mix 2-4d and Triclopyr (and/or Meso) to use as post-emergent?


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## SodFace (Jul 17, 2020)

Someone in another thread said the TN location is no longer where to send it - it's not Illinois. I haven't done mine yet(need to this week!). Here's the thread https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=26940

As for that little triangle...I would try and save it this year and see how it does. Maybe it'll be ok - will probably need a bit extra water in the summer due to heat from the pavement on both sides.

For bare spots what I have been doing(and need to do this spring due to damage late fall) is avoid pre-em on those bare spots and rely on Mesotrione. KBG spreads if you have a decent percentage of it but I find it doesn't close bare spots that are bigger than like 15cm in diameter(total guess). Sodding small patches will work if you remove the top layer and rough up the soil under so it can attach. Need to keep up on the watering and be careful around it as it'll lift right up for quite awhile. For small spots I still have a lot of the Scott's EZ seed stuff that I use for dog spots etc. I add a little seed to the top. I find it fills in quickly...I think the seed in it is high percentage of PRG.



smartbutpoor said:


> Since post-emergent is selective and affects broadleaf weeds generally, can I just blanket spray it?
> Can I apply post-emergent on a dry day, soon after having applied pre-emergent (like after a few days)?
> Can I mix 2-4d and Triclopyr (and/or Meso) to use as post-emergent?


1. You can but I like to spot spray only the weeds themselves. Most post-em is not friendly to seeding so keep that in mind.
2. Yep it's best for post-em like Par3 etc to dry on the plant...add surfactant to help it stick. Only issue would be really hot days as it'll stress the grass.
3. I think so. What are you trying to target adding Mesotrione? Grassy stuff? Not sure what Triclopyr will cover that 2,4-D won't for broadleaf but I'm no expert.


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## smartbutpoor (Mar 12, 2021)

Higher contrast images thanks to rain, to better assess the bare spots and weeds situation:

Front


(looking towards the street)


(looking towards the house)

Notice that the patch in front of the shrubs is the worst!


(close-up of the patch)


(tiny but numerous bare spots)


(we only had two days with unexpected 19°C weather and the weed situation is already looking terrifying  it's been between 10-14°C for the past week otherwise)

Also, I really need to rake out all the crap from the lawn. Anxiety friggin' sucks, I am much more comfortable working in the back and hence the better looking lawn in the back (which I already raked and mowed+bagged once!).

Back







Notice that the bare spots are localized to that roughly square area in front of the concrete. The previous owners had a canopy and furniture in that spot and it was just bare compacted soil and a ton of weeds. The grass that exists there is from my naive seeding last summer and (only slightly better) overseeding in the fall.

Also notice that the lawn in the back is thicker, has way less weeds (I pulled them more often than in the front)


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## smartbutpoor (Mar 12, 2021)

SodFace said:


> Someone in another thread said the TN location is no longer where to send it - it's not Illinois. I haven't done mine yet(need to this week!). Here's the thread https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=26940


Thanks for sharing, @SodFace! I added my comments in that thread just now. Just for your reference, the location is actually Illinois.



SodFace said:


> For bare spots what I have been doing(and need to do this spring due to damage late fall) is avoid pre-em on those bare spots and rely on Mesotrione. KBG spreads if you have a decent percentage of it but I find it doesn't close bare spots that are bigger than like 15cm in diameter(total guess). Sodding small patches will work if you remove the top layer and rough up the soil under so it can attach. Need to keep up on the watering and be careful around it as it'll lift right up for quite awhile.


I think it's said a lot in these forums that that Meso/Tenacity isn't a very effective pre-em, but I am thinking that if I seed then I might have to use it like a pre-em this one time instead of spraying prodiamine.

Your alternative suggestion sounds really good too - pre-em everywhere except the spotty part in front of the decorative plants where I can seed with Meso or lay down sod.

If I lay down sod, I think I would just cut out a rectangle covering that whole area, loosen with a rake, throw some more soil if needed and lay neat rows of sod than patching the bare spots individually. What do you think?



SodFace said:


> smartbutpoor said:
> 
> 
> > Since post-emergent is selective and affects broadleaf weeds generally, can I just blanket spray it?
> ...


For #3, it is my understanding that Triclopyr is more for woody weeds and brushes while 2-4d is for broadleaf weeds.


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## SodFace (Jul 17, 2020)

smartbutpoor said:


> Thanks for sharing, @SodFace! I added my comments in that thread just now. Just for your reference, the location is actually Illinois.


Lol whoops I didn't mean to say "not" Illinois



smartbutpoor said:


> If I lay down sod, I think I would just cut out a rectangle covering that whole area, loosen with a rake, throw some more soil if needed and lay neat rows of sod than patching the bare spots individually. What do you think?


Yea would be good I think. I have just seen people around me make the mistake of layimg sod right on top without removing anything. They end up raising their grade by mistake.


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## smartbutpoor (Mar 12, 2021)

Alright, the S3M soil test results are in!

_Can someone please help me decipher these and recommend a plan for soil amendments and fertilization?_

Front



Boulevard



Back



Comments by Waypoint

*Bluegrass Lawn / Fescue / Cool Season Lawn*

 MAINTENANCE: Apply 0.75 to 1 lb N/1000 sq ft in March, May, September, and November. Adjust N rate and timing to accommodate climatic conditions and management practices. If lower maintenance is desired, the May application can be eliminated.
 Apply half of recommended phosphate in spring and again in fall.
 Apply recommended potash in fall. If the soil is sandy, apply 1 lb of potash/1000 sq ft in fall and apply the remaining potash in several smaller applications throughout the growing season.
 If the recommended amount of limestone is not incorporated into the soil prior to establishment, surface apply up to 50 lbs/1000 sq ft every 4 to 6 months until the recommended amount is applied

My Comments and Questions:


 Forsythia already bloomed in my neighborhood in the past 1-2 weeks when we had warmer temperatures (around 10-12°C with a couple of days reaching 19°C unexpectedly)

 We had snow yesterday and the day before!!! Freezing night time temperatures (Welcome to Canada!)

 BUT, tomorrow is 17°C and then 2 days of rain. I am thinking of putting pre-em (Prodiamine) down tomorrow. Do you think that's a good idea?

 I hand-pulled some weeds (dandelions, etc.) but there are plenty others that have already germinated. Can I put spray them with 2-4d soon after spraying with pre-em?

 Can I mix both 2-4d and Triclopyr 4 together to spray the weeds that have already emerged?

*Side Notes*:

 I am in Ontario, Canada and I sent my samples to Memphis, TN lab. Canadians can send to Illinois lab as well, and won't need the P550 label as long as the permit is attached.
 Waypoint also added fertility recommendations for Ryegrass Pasture which I do not include on this page (but I can, if anyone's interested)


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## smartbutpoor (Mar 12, 2021)

Applying pre-emergent in the morning so I calibrated my battery-powered backpack sprayer today.

*Simple Steps to Calibrate a Backpack Sprayer*:

 Marked a 10ft x 20ft area ( = 200 sq.ft. area)
 Filled the backpack sprayer with clean water
 Set the pressure dial to 9 o'clock setting on my sprayer
 Timed myself spraying the 200 sq.ft. at normal walking pace - took about 28 seconds (average of 3 trials)
 Took a measuring container and sprayed into it for 28 seconds - measured 700ml of water - this is the output rate for 200 sq.ft.
 If output rate for 200 sq.ft. is 700ml, then output rate for 1000 sq.ft. is 3500ml (because five times 200 sq.ft. is 1000 sq.ft. and five times 700ml is 3500ml) - note that this is approximately 118.35 oz

The sprayer is calibrated.

The application rate that I am going for with Resolute 4FL (40.7% prodiamine) is 0.35 oz per 1000 sq.ft for roughly 4 months of coverage because I want to overseed in the fall.

Therefore, I will add 118 oz of water and 0.35 oz to my backpack sprayer (for a total of 118.35 oz as calibrated) and go over the 1000 sq. ft. of my lawn.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

I recommend posting your soil results in this sub-forum

https://thelawnforum.com/viewforum.php?f=24

Mention that it's your first one and you want help forming a plan. I really just followed the waypoint recommendations last year and it worked out fine.


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## smartbutpoor (Mar 12, 2021)

I ordered 0-0-50 Sulphate of Potash from allturf.ca today.

I also bundled a certified seed blend with my order to save on delivery costs. It's called Greenseed Premium Landscape Seed Mix (30% Kentucky Bluegrass, 35% Creeping Red Fescue, 35% Perennial Ryegrass). I do not overseed until fall, however, considering that I just put pre-em down at 0.35oz (to 0.5oz - more on that later) per 1000sqft.

Thanks for the store recommendation, @davegravy!


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## smartbutpoor (Mar 12, 2021)

Applied the recommended amounts (roughly) of 'Sulphate of Potash' to the lawns today:

*Front*: 600g 
*Back*: 450g
*Boulevard*: 200g

Waypoint's recommendation is to apply in the Fall but I went ahead and applied it now reading the suggestions here and elsewhere.

I should note that the weather is starting to warm up and the lawns are already looking good which is unbelievable. Pre-em definitely seems to have helped! I do have quite a bit of dandelions (and other weeds) in the front but some, if not all, had already came up in the few unexpectedly warm days before it became colder again. I know 2-4D, Triclopyr are generally recommended to be spot-sprayed but I am planning at least one blanket application for peace of mind -- and to also ensure that I get application rates right - like, how do you calibrate and measure amounts for spot spraying? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I started seeing good grass growth especially after the 29-0-4 (nitrogen) application at the start of this month. I will continue applying nitrogen once every month and a half until Fall. I am also mowing at 4" (the max my mower can do) so the grass feels lush. Looking forward to leveling and overseeding in fall.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

@smartbutpoor keep in mind your dandelions could have germinated in the fall / winter. I used to have many of them and after 3 seasons of consistent pre-emergent I basically have 0.


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