# Weeds taking over new renovation! Tenacity failure.



## garrettgriffin (Aug 14, 2020)

Hello all I am 22 DAG and 17 DAG my tall fescue here in NC. Everything has filled in pretty good but the weeds are killing me. I know I can deal with them later but this seems like an excessive amount. I also sprayed tenacity at seed down and it has done absolutely nothing to this particular weed. What gives? Feels like it was a waste of money to buy tenacity at this point. Is there anything I can do to stop the weeds from taking over the new fescue or just wait it out and let the cold weather kill them off? This is by far the worst part in my yard which is a little over 5000sqft. Can I spray again? Thanks for any and all advice!


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## garrettgriffin (Aug 14, 2020)

My fear as since there are so many in this area that when they do die off there will be bare sports everywhere. Should I spend a good amount of time and pull all of them up and throw more grass seed down afterwards so hopefully it fills in?


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## sheepfescue (Jul 29, 2019)

Ouch... sorry to hear about your experience. If you have the time, inclination, and energy for it, then yes, I would suggest pulling up all those by hand (or if you have one of those weed-doctor or weed-daddy tools, then use that. Not that you didn't know, but just remember if you're gonna invest the time and energy in doing so, try as best you can to pull up the whole weed plant with as much roots as you can.

Not sure what your patience, willingness, and $$$ ability/willingness is at this point, but Quinclorac (you'll have to order the concentrate from an e-store like domyown.com and mix it) is safe this far after germination, and works for crabgrass, which is what that weed appears to be.

The trouble with Tenacity is that Tall Fescue is one of the desireable turfgrasses that is most vulnerable to Tenacity's herbicidal action, so I don't know about that.

Given what you're dealing with from an aesthetic perspective, and don't want to buy more stuff... my suggestion might be to spot-treat the weeds with Tenacity, but at 1.5x concentration (so instead of going to 4 gallons water on the Tenacity syringe, you'd go to 6 gallons, but still use 4 gallons water (for example)). If your sprayer has a nozzle that will be more of a direct stream or cone, this could work.

Another idea is to buy a jug of Roundup Crabgrass Destroyer (AI Topramezone), and--again--spot-treat the weeds.

My only strong suggestion for you (the above are ideas) is this: if any of those weedy grasses generate seed heads (which will most likely look like long insect antennae), do whatever you can to carefully pull up/cut-off/whatever-you-can to those seed heads.

Good luck.


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

Tenacity Pre emergent sure is nuking things in my overseed and partial renovation. 


If that were my yard in your pic I'd go pull the weeds by hand. I did that in early summer at my place.


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

That seems like crabgrass? You could see if quinclorac will take that stuff down, as you can use that with seedlings.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Looks like crabgrass to me. Don't pull them up or you'll pull up your new grass too. Crabgrass will die after frost. You don't have to kill it. You can prevent it next year with regular pre emergent like Prodiamine in the spring when the forsythia blooms. If you want to do some weed killing now, use quinclorac (like Drive). It's safe on new grass. Most herbicides are not. Tenacity is not too good on mature crabgrass and yours looks like it has lots of tillers. Was this an overseed or renovation? Tenacity is fine for tall fescue. It's fine fescue that doesn't tolerate it well.


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## garrettgriffin (Aug 14, 2020)

Thanks everyone for the reply's!! I think my best mode of action is to order some quinclorac and while it is being delivered start pulling up as many as I can which our tearing out the fescue if at all possible. I agree that tenacity will likely have little effect on this amount of crabgrass and what stage it is at. A little disappointed in this area because it stated out looking the best and now it has been overthrown with crabgrass. Yes this was a renovation!


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## garrettgriffin (Aug 14, 2020)

https://www.domyown.com/quinclorac-75-df-p-16573.html

Is this what you all are suggesting?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It can also be goosegrass.

The quinclorac you buy will need MSO too. Buy it at the same time.


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## MarshalOfFire (Apr 22, 2020)

How much tenacity did you apply to the area? Any chance it was under applied or the product has gone bad?

I have never seen tenacity fail this poorly, so just asking.


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## f_l (Aug 11, 2020)

similar issues with my reno. im out there nearly every afternoon pulling up crabgrass. tenacity at seed down as well. starting to think it also was a waste of money...


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## garrettgriffin (Aug 14, 2020)

I am definitely going to order what you all are suggesting! Should I begin the process of pulling out the weeds or just wait? I will definitely be pulling out the good grass in the process but I am more than likely have to reseed the area anyways


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## Agiuliano10 (Apr 21, 2020)

MarshalOfFire said:


> How much tenacity did you apply to the area? Any chance it was under applied or the product has gone bad?
> 
> I have never seen tenacity fail this poorly, so just asking.


I also having a mild weed issue after using tenacity and thought when I mixed it maybe it went bad because of the consistency and color. Is it supposed to be milky? Or more of a liquid?


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

Here's a pic of my side yard area that was seeded with tenacity as pre emergent at seed down. There's lots of white stuff scattered in when you look closely. It definitely helped in my case. The area in my pic was seeded late August.


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## Matthew_73 (Jul 9, 2019)

g-man said:


> It can also be goosegrass.
> 
> The quinclorac you buy will need MSO too. Buy it at the same time.


I'm getting goose and crab. The crabgrass is easy to pull. Goose not so. What is the damage of the crabgrass is mature and the lasting effects.


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## garrettgriffin (Aug 14, 2020)

Agiuliano10 said:


> MarshalOfFire said:
> 
> 
> > How much tenacity did you apply to the area? Any chance it was under applied or the product has gone bad?
> ...


Mine was milky as well which i believe to be normal. I suspected some weeds which was fine because i knew the cold weather would knock them out and i could put down preemergent in the early spring but to see this is very discouraging. I guess all you can do is try and knock them back which i just ordered some quinclorac. Tenacity is known to be a great product and im sure it is but for me personally it was a big waste of money because in my yard it did absolutely nothing. Maybe is was user error but im not sure how it could go this wrong. oh well


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## garrettgriffin (Aug 14, 2020)

g-man said:


> It can also be goosegrass.
> 
> The quinclorac you buy will need MSO too. Buy it at the same time.


Can i use a Non-ionic surfactant instead? Already have it on hand.


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## Kiza (Oct 30, 2019)

Just curious, for your reno...
Did you spray multiple applications of glyphosate and fallow your new soil beforehand?
Did your seeds have 0.0% weed, 0.0% other crops?
Tenacity has limitations. I wouldn't use it as my main pre or post-emergent. It helps control weeds during seeding, but I wouldn't expect miracles.


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## garrettgriffin (Aug 14, 2020)

Yes I killed everything off! Sprayed three different apps of GLY and everything was looking good. Threw down 25lb of GCI TTTF and 25lb of tttf some seedsuperstore. It was good quality seed and also covered with Pete moss not straw. Not sure what happen but it will get turned around next year in the spring hopefully.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@garrettgriffin page 9 of the label only talk about mso.

Something is clearly not right if you did 3 gly apps + tenacity to have all those weeds. Did you get any weed growing during the fallowing?

The tip of a flat head screwdriver can help you pull those weeds without too much damage to the good stuff.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

I also did a reno with tenacity and got a lot of weeds. Not nearly as much as the OP but I also didn't see any visual indication the tenacity was doing anything - nothing that germinated came up bleached. I think the fallowing + gly did more than the tenacity to deal with weeds.

Not sure if it had something to do with how I applied. I sprayed tenacity on the bare seeded soil, then spread peat moss on top, then watered in.


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## garrettgriffin (Aug 14, 2020)

g-man said:


> @garrettgriffin page 9 of the label only talk about mso.
> 
> Something is clearly not right if you did 3 gly apps + tenacity to have all those weeds. Did you get any weed growing during the fallowing?
> 
> The tip of a flat head screwdriver can help you pull those weeds without too much damage to the good stuff.


Well I killed everything off and then core aerated and seeded a few days later. I must have brought new weed seeds to the surface from the plugs. I thought fallowing was only for new soil brought into a renovation. I tempted to pull the weeds but there are far to many especially in that area. I have some 
Quinclorac on the way so hopefully it will help and come spring I can gain more control with a pre emergent. Quick question, when I spray this chemical and it kills the weeds(hopefully) I will most likely have to reseed the area especially the bad one correct?


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## MarshalOfFire (Apr 22, 2020)

Agiuliano10 said:


> MarshalOfFire said:
> 
> 
> > How much tenacity did you apply to the area? Any chance it was under applied or the product has gone bad?
> ...


Definitely supposed to be milky. Did you use the gallons on the syringe or did you measure out ounces per acre and convert to teaspoons?

I prefer the ounce per acre conversion myself and feel it gives better protection than just using the gallon lines on the syringe.

For anyone interested, the math I use is below.

(Oz/acre desired ÷ 43.5) x m square feet (in thousands, so 3.5 for 3,500 square feet) x 6 (6 ounces per teaspoon)

Example:
5 oz per acre over 4,500 square feet.

(5÷43.5)×4.5×6=3.10 teaspoons

I then divide that by however many gallons I need to cover the area. In this case, i used 4 gallons cause that is what my sprayer holds, and I just adjust my pace accordingly.


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## garrettgriffin (Aug 14, 2020)

Does anyone know if quinclorac will kill the goose grass along with the crabgrass? I think I have a mixture which @g-man mentioned in a previous post.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Did you check the label?


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

Quinclorac is not labeled to kill Goosegrass. Tenacity, Pylex or MSMA are.


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## garrettgriffin (Aug 14, 2020)

Yeah I think it's only for crabgrass. Guess it's better than nothing but looks like we have another problem. Guessing fungus. A lot of my turf in this area is turning brown and dying.


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## jimmythegreek (Aug 7, 2020)

I used tenacity heavy at seeding out back and had alot of weeds also. I used drive xlr8 in the front yard and it knocked the heck out of all the weeds. I have huge patches of browning grass I didnt even realize there was that much weeds mixed in. Quinclorac to me is night amd day better. You need MSO with it amd I go heavy on blue dye to treat evenly. I'm a big fan of drive now


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## driver_7 (Jun 28, 2018)

If I understand it correctly, MSO helps the herbicide to penetrate the surface of the weed, NIS just helps it stick to the surface of the weed. Different adjuvants for different purposes.


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## estcstm3 (Sep 3, 2019)

Lawn Noob said:


> Tenacity Pre emergent sure is nuking things in my overseed and partial renovation.
> 
> 
> If that were my yard in your pic I'd go pull the weeds by hand. I did that in early summer at my place.


When did you start your reno? Which seed did you go with?


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## estcstm3 (Sep 3, 2019)

717driver said:


> If I understand it correctly, MSO helps the herbicide to penetrate the surface of the weed, NIS just helps it stick to the surface of the weed. Different adjuvants for different purposes.


I thought when using tenancity as a pre emergent you dont use a "sticker" just straight?


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

estcstm3 said:


> 717driver said:
> 
> 
> > If I understand it correctly, MSO helps the herbicide to penetrate the surface of the weed, NIS just helps it stick to the surface of the weed. Different adjuvants for different purposes.
> ...


When used as a pre-em, you just need to get the ai into the soil. Nothing needs to be added except irrigation afterwards to activate the meso.


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

Tenacity has crabgrass listed under the pre emergent control. Goosegrass is not listed on the label for pre m control. Given this information and based on the photos, I think all those weeds are goosegrass.


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

So... Tenacity is awesome for crabgrass !

Not sure what went wrong for OP, I'd double check your math. To be completely honest, tenacity is the only think that really makes a spring reno possible by stopping the onslaught of crabgrass that comes in June.


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

estcstm3 said:


> Lawn Noob said:
> 
> 
> > Tenacity Pre emergent sure is nuking things in my overseed and partial renovation.
> ...


GCI TTTF planted 8/25.


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## garrettgriffin (Aug 14, 2020)

Easyluck said:


> Tenacity has crabgrass listed under the pre emergent control. Goosegrass is not listed on the label for pre m control. Given this information and based on the photos, I think all those weeds are goosegrass.


Here is my plan. September 23 which is 4 weeks after germination I am going to blanket spray tenacity as my 2nd application because as I have learned it is good to deal with goosegrass, while also spot spraying the quinclorac on the really bad areas to kill what crabgrass may have came through. Does everyone think the turf can handle these two chemicals being sprayed at the same time or would it be better to spread them out?


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## estcstm3 (Sep 3, 2019)

Lawn Noob said:


> estcstm3 said:
> 
> 
> > Lawn Noob said:
> ...


Thanks, hoping to get seed down next week, so we can compare if i was too late this year =)


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## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

garrettgriffin said:


> Easyluck said:
> 
> 
> > Tenacity has crabgrass listed under the pre emergent control. Goosegrass is not listed on the label for pre m control. Given this information and based on the photos, I think all those weeds are goosegrass.
> ...


When's your first frost typically?

I honestly wouldn't worry about crabgrass, it will die soon.

I wouldn't risk tenacity on baby grass, label might say it's ok (IDK if it does) but the yellowing effect means it can't make chlorophyll which yields a weaker plant.


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