# My newby lawn journal (Ontario, Canada)



## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Hi all;

Ill start with a quick intro, new to this forum and hobby. I want to start by tossing out a quick *thank you* for all the advice and time you guys and gals put into this forum from the mods all the way to the users who creep in the shadows (including myself up til now). This is such an awesome resource for someone like myself getting into this. I will try not to bore you with too much filler here but I just wanted to give anyone reading an idea of where I am at. My knowledge base is strictly from the YouTube giants, small amounts of Reddit posts and the threads from here.

*My goal* here is to keep this updated this year as a reference and journal for myself and show any lessons learned for anyone possibly in the same boat. I am super open to ANY feedback you are willing to share. Getting into any hobby is intimidating when you are on a forum with people that are and have been on the highest level but I get the sense that the majority of people here take pride on lifting other users up and growing the community.

*The Lawn*: located in the Niagara Region in Ontario, Canada. I am 25 minutes from Lewiston, Niagara Falls and Buffalo, NY. It is 2,000sqft total, 750 in the front including the boulevard and 1250 in the back. It is a shared front lot, my neighbour is retired and loves his lawn as well thankfully! The back is essentially a disaster. I hope to save it this year instead of having to do a full on reno, I will have pics within the next couple days of the specific messes that I am dealing with back there.

The following picture is from May 2019


This is from the other angle out my front window taken today April 1 2020, this is where I am starting this year


The borders are of course currently closed, I am however attempting to get my hands on some things to help grow the lawn and remain as close to inside our laws up here as I can. This is a huge challenge for us north of the US border, as you know we have some of the most strict laws against herbicides on the planet. I respect and understand the reasoning behind these but I feel that if used appropriately the negative environmental impact can be kept next to zero. The following is what I have on hand and what is hopefully on its way up here.

On Hand I have;
General broad leaf 2,4,D weed killer from a HD in the states
1.5 large bags of Milo
Humic, Kelp and Fulvic, all individual from a local grow shop, I believe the Humic and Kelp are BlackDiamond
On the way;


This is due to ship Friday, no idea if/when it will get here.

Where I am at currently:
- My soil thermometer has a 3" probe and is showing an average of 50 degrees taken at 1900hrs tonight at multiple points in the lawn both front and back. I am worried the Prodiamine won't make it in time, but will still be applied as a split app as soon as I can get it down (if it ships that is of course). For the GDD tracker I am using Niagara Falls NY as that is on my longitude and as close as I can get as the site doesn't take Canadian addresses, it shows me very early in the optimum area.
-My backyard is still soaking wet, I have yet to even been able to rake it. It is matted in areas from high traffic from my dog. There is a pool back there being removed this year, plan is to sod as it will be done within the next month. I will do a seperate post on just that portion of the yard, I have a mixed bag of broadleaf weeds, dead areas, patches... It is probably what your nightmares consist of. 
-I am pulling plugs tomorrow to sent to Waypoint (plan is for the lab in PA unless you suggest elsewhere price wise?) for a soil test. 
-Currently debating throwing down a starter fert from Canadian Tire its a 10-20-5 to save a trip to the link. My thought here is to keep it to .25lbs/k of N and hope that I can give the roots a nice boost. I did not do anything good for winter fert last year. Following that up with the first Milo throw down at the end of May.

That is enough for now, I am sorry for going so long here, excited to start this journal and get into the season! If you made it down here, thanks for taking the time and I would love to hear if you think the plan so far is any good or any tweaks/amendments you have. I would appreciate any feedback you may have.

Looking forward to discussing the 2020 season with you all!

Jay


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Welcome to the forum.. Nice to have another from Southern Ontario. I think you will be ok for another 1-2 weeks on the prodiamine.


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## Matix99def (Jul 15, 2019)

Is the midnight for the backyard? Are you planning to try some spring seeding and see what happens??


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Stuofsci02 said:


> Welcome to the forum.. Nice to have another from Southern Ontario. I think you will be ok for another 1-2 weeks on the prodiamine.


Thanks for the welcome! I have noticed there are definitely a few from Southern Ontario here which is great, always good info and a different view or way of doing things when all the stuff we need isnt at our finger tips. I am hoping that I get a shipping e-mail today or tomorrow for the stuff with an idea on when it is supposed to arrive. I figured either way I would still stick with a split app unless something happens and its delayed by 3+ weeks.

If I end up even 1/8 of the way to your avatar pick Im going to consider this year a success, haha


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Matix99def said:


> Is the midnight for the backyard? Are you planning to try some spring seeding and see what happens??


The thought behind buying it now was that the shipping on that order is something like $45US and the seed was a decent price so I would throw it on the order now and see where I need it. For right this minute I intend to wait for the back to dry, give it some TLC and see if I can hold off with the overseed to the fall. I do have some good grass back there but as you will see when I post the pictures, I may need to at least try and overseed a bit this spring. I will make that decision after I get some feedback and of course before the prodiamine goes down.

Quite conflicted about where to even start back there to be honest.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

jaykrooze said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> > Welcome to the forum.. Nice to have another from Southern Ontario. I think you will be ok for another 1-2 weeks on the prodiamine.
> ...


You can end up all the way to my avatar pic. Good grass is not super hard, just requires more work than most are willing to do... Cheers!


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Unexciting update, but things are starting...

Sent off a front and rear soil sample to Waypoint Analytical today, should get there within the week and will post when they come back. The front plugs were decent, showed a very minimal thatch layer which is alright. When I say I have a clay backyard that is noooo joke, I couldn't even break the plugs down for a day or two until they dried a bit to get them mixed for a sample. The front has a solid clay layer as well but I noticed much more deep roots and worms in the plugs I pulled out which I will take as a good sign. The mower is off to a buddy for a spring tune up (lazy and also supporting a local guy during this garbage situation were in) I will get that back tomorrow and hit the front yard with it, can't wait.



I was able to get out back today for a couple hours and give the yard a good rake and move some of the kids toys around to get the sun on other spots of the lawn. I raked out some snow mold and a dog urine spot or two. During this walk around there is a lot that I noticed that needs to be done. I will just show the main issues here and what I need to sort out this year. These photos are pre-rake, pardon me.

Swale area in front of the shed. 


This shed was a late addition last year to house the new mower and snow tires mainly. The ground took a bit of a beating but not much, the soil above the swale here has eroded over time, I need to add a solid layer of soil on top and plan to seed that. I may try and recover the grass on the upper side of it as the fence is being moved back and deal with the soil addition prior to the fall overseed in September. High light area, so thinking the majority of this will be KBG. Also considering an early aeration of the area before hand to help get some decent soil down inside. The little hill beyond the swale has been neglected and houses about 5 or 6 different broadleaf weed varieties that I can see so far.

Back of the house where the sump and eaves drain.


Plan of attack for this area, which is shaded most of the afternoon, is to fill the holes up and direct the water down the fence line towards the back swale. This area has been totally saturated. I may skip this area if the prodiamine shows up and baby some seed in early to help out. Not alot of weed coverage here and also not a huge area to keep watered. I am thinking of trying some rye or tttf here due to the abundance of shade. (?).

Infront of the Garden - I did this on my own by leaving a tarp down after the shed build...  my bad. 


I can only imagine that I need to just seed this area as well. It is a high light area, small enough and I will be able to rope it off from the dog and kids. I know spring seeding isn't the best but I don't know what else to do here. Nothing will grow over but weeds I feel if I don't go at it that way. Again probably that KBG seed here as well. The pool out back and portion of the deck is being removed as well this year, that is going to be a sod job for sure. Should get into that within the next month or so.

I have been tossing the idea of a spring aeration around for the backyard because of just how nasty the soil sample plugs were I pulled. Clay almost all the way through, it was brutal and shallow rooted. I would love some feedback if you have made it this far, possibly an aeration ASAP before the prodiamine gets here? I will still continue with my split app as planned afterwards for the spring/summer and then of course hold off for the fall aeration, top dressing and overseeding.

The package from Seed World has had the label created for the better part of a week with no pick up by UPS, I am sensing some trouble there? We will see...

Immediate next steps:
**First Mow** :mrgreen: 
Starter fert for the whole lawn.
Fill holes out back and redirect the sump pump and eaves drainage.
Get the gardens turned and composted.

Hope everyone is doing well out there and staying home away from this garbage.

All the best.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Welcome! I will follow your journal closely. 2 years ago, I was roughly where you are now. With more sqf (abt 6000) I went all in and did a full reno last summer. I got lucky I guess.
Dont' know why you want to apply starter fert now. Anything high on nitrogen with potassium will work better. Again being blindfolded without your soil tests....


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## doverosx (Aug 7, 2019)

Hold off on buying fert until you get your lab results, trust me, I know how excited you are to work the lawn lol.

I'm very subbed. Hopefully we can bank off of each other's journals. See you in the lawn!


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

doverosx said:


> Hold off on buying fert until you get your lab results, trust me, I know how excited you are to work the lawn lol.
> 
> I'm very subbed. Hopefully we can bank off of each other's journals. See you in the lawn!


You are not wrong. Way too excited to go. Just worried about the roots I want them to dive this year but that damn clay..... I screwed up my soil test, PA doesn't test Canadian soil so am sending another one to Guelph University (before I put down Prodiamine or post emergents) the results will be a couple weeks yet at best. Will have a look at your journal thanks for stopping by and smacking some sense into me... Haha


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Babameca said:


> Welcome! I will follow your journal closely. 2 years ago, I was roughly where you are now. With more sqf (abt 6000) I went all in and did a full reno last summer. I got lucky I guess.
> Dont' know why you want to apply starter fert now. Anything high on nitrogen with potassium will work better. Again being blindfolded without your soil tests....


Thank you. Yeah just excited to go. I will hold off a bit. Soil tests are a couple weeks out. If it o ly takes two years to get to that beauty lawn you have there is light at the end of my tunnel haha. Appreciate you stopping in looking forward to this season. Glad there is hope for the back yard, it seems very daunting right now...


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@jaykrooze It actually took 3 months... Take a look at my journal. I studied and experimented on my 'old' lawn for year, while learning and building sources to supply what I needed. Last August it was a full reset and starting from seed. Everything is possible with patience, planning and a lot of hours on the lawn. You will also find many Canadians kicking my butt with what they have in their backyards.


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Spring treatments are well under way! Feels good to be back out there.

Wild last week or two with snow and alot of frost. I applied my first dose of fert just before all of it. It is clearly working out front, got some decent colour. Not a ton of growth I have noticed but again the weather has not been idea. On the upswing from here out by the looks for the forecast.

I threw down roughly .75lbs/k [N] of the left over fert I had in the shed, standard CIL golf green fert. I did not go with the starter fert as per the suggestions above, thank you for that. I plan to save the milorganite for the May 2-4 weekend when the temps are up to help it do its thing.

Today I gave the front a cut at around 2.5" ahead of my prodiamine app that I just laid down. I am hoping my calculations were right here, I got the app rate almost perfect out front after experimenting with water the other day. I am using a 2g hand can which is just perfect for my size of yard.

1st Prodiamine app (ever):
Front yard: I put down the 65wdg at a total amount of 8g (0.28oz) in a gallon- I plan on doing another app around 70 degrees and again in the fall. My front yard does not appear to need any kind of overseeding so I am going with a normal rate split app all season. This rate is for 1500sqft as I did my neighbours lawn which is a mirror image of mine (750sqft)
Back yard: I applied the 5 month rate as I plan to do the fall overseeding back there. I ended up putting down 12g (0.44oz) to carry me through to September. I thought of a split app back there but man is it ever a mess.

I am noticing the back yard is not responding to the fert yet. It is wet back there still and we have had higher than normal foot traffic which I think is what would be the leading cause for this. The kids being home and parks closed means they're out there quite a bit. I am going to struggle back there this year no doubt, hoping the prodiamine will help out.

Next Steps:
-I decided I am going to rent an aerator and do a double pass in both yards (in a week or so after some of the moisture is out of the ground). This has not been done for a couple years and those soil samples were an absolute beast to pull and get out of the tool even after a good rain.
-I will be tossing some humic and sea kelp the day I aerate just for some extra boost to the soil.
-Looking to get some of that KBG seed I got into the bare spots in the back (I did not apply prodiamine to these areas) I know spring seeding isnt ideal but there is no other option here other than to seed it and baby it best I can through the summer heat. 
-Still waiting on soil samples to come back I will post those up when I get them and you guys can have atter with any recommendations.

Speaking of soil samples, *I hope this helps someone up my way*. I made an error. I took the sample, filled out the WayPoint forms and sent it unknowingly like an idiot to their PA location. They do not have the permits to test "international soil". I find this funny as I love so damn close to the border its guaranteed the same stuff but I understand where they're coming from. So I burned a shipping cost of around $25.00. Lesson learned. Hilarious. I then took another sample batch and shipped it off to Guelph University here locally. I have no chems at all in the lawn so not worried about that being the soil testing site the Ministry uses. Moving forward I will send my tests to the WayPoint TN location where they do hold such permits.

Oops.


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## Matix99def (Jul 15, 2019)

Your planned aeration will break your prodiAmine barrier. Not sure how it works to reapply after wards. I guess Aslong as you are inside the yearly max it should be fine. Unless you are just going to pray the weeds are easy on you until your fall app.


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Matix99def said:


> Your planned aeration will break your prodiAmine barrier. Not sure how it works to reapply after wards. I guess Aslong as you are inside the yearly max it should be fine. Unless you are just going to pray the weeds are easy on you until your fall app.


Yeah so I looked into this, from what I've read there were studies showing no change in efficacy of the vapour barrier. I figured in theory mechanically breaking it would disrupt the barrier, makes the most sense to me. Hoping I can catch the left overs in the second application. The way the weather has been who knows what's going to pop up. I'll update with my experience once I've done it. Hoping to not pull up dormant seeds hiding below!


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## Matix99def (Jul 15, 2019)

Well best of luck. hope it works out. Do you plan to fill the holes with anything particular?


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Matix99def said:


> Well best of luck. hope it works out. Do you plan to fill the holes with anything particular?


Yeah, good question, I haven't decided yet. Not that its a tough one just haven't put much thought into that. Any suggestions? I was initially thinking to leave it during the spring aerate to open to up and then layer something on in the fall.


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## Matix99def (Jul 15, 2019)

I am new to this so don't take me too seriously but if you are concerned about the soil structure, maybe add some compost/sand mix to help change it up. Improve drainage a bit? Not sure how compost is with weeds so maybe some peat moss/sand?


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Matix99def said:


> I am new to this so don't take me too seriously but if you are concerned about the soil structure, maybe add some compost/sand mix to help change it up. Improve drainage a bit? Not sure how compost is with weeds so maybe some peat moss/sand?


Yeah, great suggestion. I was thinking of the peat/sand mix if anything. The clay is so dense that it definitely needs some form of organic material. Need to find a leveling rake that ships to Canada at some point to sort out the craters in the backyard too!


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## Matix99def (Jul 15, 2019)

I made a diy drag when I did my yard. Worked well and you get some exercise. Few 2x4, some free weights and a rope to pull it around. Those leveling rakes are worth some coin.


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## yardnutz (Jul 11, 2018)

jaykrooze said:


> Unexciting update, but things are starting...
> 
> Sent off a front and rear soil sample to Waypoint Analytical today, should get there within the week and will post when they come back.


Hi, I'm from Etobicoke, Ontario. I just wanted to ask you how much did it cost you to send for soil testing and what kind of test you'd need if I were to send mine in.



jaykrooze said:


> Matix99def said:
> 
> 
> > I am new to this so don't take me too seriously but if you are concerned about the soil structure, maybe add some compost/sand mix to help change it up. Improve drainage a bit? Not sure how compost is with weeds so maybe some peat moss/sand?
> ...


 I purchased Levelawn Rake( image below)










From my understanding, folks had a hard time trying to purchase these here in Canada. There are two manufacturers for this tool, Par Aide and Range Mart. Accuform Acculevel manufacturer is Par Aide. The difference between them is the Acculevel Accuform by Par Aid, the entire tool is heavy, the stick is also made out of metal and it goes for $230 Cad. The Levelawn by RangeMart is the exact same except the handle is made out of I think aluminum (detachable)

Innisfil All Turf (705) 431-0561 
Plant Products (905) 793-7000 Ancaster, On - Accuform Acculevel 34'' $163.43 ( Purchased mine from them ) They also ship, and I was told it is handled by a company called Dicom. I've used this and it is an excellent rake/leveler!


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

@yardnutz 
Sorry I somehow did not catch this notification. Just came across this now!
First off thanks for that info, I will be ordering that Accuform Acculevel your talking about, seems awesome and I have an entire yard to do coming up, appreciate that!

I spent around $50 and sent my sample to University of Guelph. I actually just got it today. You contact them and they send you an e-mail with instructions, rather straightforward. It was OK, would be just over the same price to ship it off to WayPoint in TN I would imagine. Probably a faster turn around from them as well. I will be posting my results in the next comment here with an update so have a look and see if it is something youre into. Let me know how you make out with that.


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Soil tests came back. I got some work to do.
I will add the conversions below the picture, I know the mg/L is most likely foreign to everyone as much as it was for me :lol: .





Mag seems to be high. 
P showing on the low end, maybe because the pH is high?
K appears to be in the normal range. 
Organic matter is on the low side of OK as per their recommendations.

Recommendations to amend [kg/100m3 = 1lb/1076sqft rounded down for ease]:
P: 0.4 lbs/1000 sq ft
K:3.4 lbs/1000 sq ft

Another thing to note here is the Electrical Conductivity or Salt content is through the roof. They consider >1.00 to be "excessive" and I am sitting at 1.36. Not sure what this is all about. I did not take a lot of samples off of the boulevard by the road and we also do not get salters by much in the winter, nor do we salt the driveway in the winter. Hoping that all the rain will dilute this? Damn.

pH:
So I am showing a bit high here. 7.6, I know this isn't the end of the world but would like to bring it down to a more ideal range. Having trouble sourcing out some sulphur, will be contacting some golf courses tomorrow to see if they can sell any. Also reached out to @davegravy who has set up a thread for anyone in the area who wants to do a bulk order from Brett Young due to their now $500 minimum order.

Other lawn updates:
Rented an aerator, did the front, chain broke, rented another to finish. It has been 2 weeks and the plugs still have not degraded despite the rain so I removed them manually today. They were creating a crater like look to the lawn because they just wouldn't break down and the mower didn't suck them up and chew em. Insane how nasty the clay is.

Back lawn is a total nightmare... Having drainage issues, need to redirect an eaves and sump and will go heavy on this reno this fall. High traffic due to the kids and dog and getting higher with the pool removal. Will post some pictures when it is a little less embarrassing. Shaded areas away from the water growing like crazy, did find some moss kicking around. Rest of the lawn barely any growth at all, thankfully as I cannot even get a mower out to those parts.

Got some post em down. Doing its job little by little.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Any luck ordering the Acculevel? Last I called PlantProducts.ca they weren't selling to the public due to COVID-19.


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

davegravy said:


> Any luck ordering the Acculevel? Last I called PlantProducts.ca they weren't selling to the public due to COVID-19.


No luck. Hoping as restrictions lift this will change. Fingers crossed.


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## doverosx (Aug 7, 2019)

Subbed!

I see a bunch of us Canucks have similar results, my pH is 7.4 and I ordered elemental sulfur from garden supply; already threw down 2lbs.

Your potassium is okay, phosphorous is low. My organic material was 7.1% but yours is in the 2s. Maybe some good manure throw down will help.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

doverosx said:


> Subbed!
> 
> I see a bunch of us Canucks have similar results, my pH is 7.4 and I ordered elemental sulfur from garden supply; already threw down 2lbs.


A few people are looking for sulfur. May I ask what garden supply had it?

Also keep in mind sulfur needs microbial action (ie warm weather) to break down. I'm holding off applying until this cold is well behind us.


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## doverosx (Aug 7, 2019)

You ask, I supply ;-) https://www.canadiangardensupply.com/soil-sulfur-sulfur-pellets-4lbs.html

I put the sulfur down (2lbs) to get it started in breaking down into the soil, it still needs to get consumed by microbes like you said so might as well get it broken down now. I'll throw more down in 2 weeks when I throw down more fert!


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Ok, fyi it should normally be a lot cheaper (I paid less than that at BY for a 25kg bag) but this might be the only option during coronavirus.

Sorry @yardnutz for derailing.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@jaykrooze I don't see in the test 2 important things:
1. CEC, without it there is no way to get the saturation levels
2. Calcium

I also find the recommendation of 1.5lbs of N for the season pretty weird/low


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Babameca said:


> @jaykrooze I don't see in the test 2 important things:
> 1. CEC, without it there is no way to get the saturation levels
> 2. Calcium
> 
> I also find the recommendation of 1.5lbs of N for the season pretty weird/low


Hey, yeah they don't include either in these test results, one of the reasons I was hesitant to try this analysis. It does say in the sub section that I didn't post that the 1.5N is standard and suggested on every analysis, not unique to the sample analyzed.

Will be sending to WatPoint TN next season!


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## doverosx (Aug 7, 2019)

The CEC is another $28, which puts it at $73 total, though, shipping was cheap. Like you, I'll be going to waypoint next year since I've mostly had to infer where other elements are. High pH locks out A LOT of nutrients, but look at the weeds that are growing for a hint as to what's happening.


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

doverosx said:


> The CEC is another $28, which puts it at $73 total, though, shipping was cheap. Like you, I'll be going to waypoint next year since I've mostly had to infer where other elements are. High pH locks out A LOT of nutrients, but look at the weeds that are growing for a hint as to what's happening.


Damn, I did not realize it was extra. That is quite expensive though. Waypoint going to be critical next year to save a few bucks. Live and learn, thanks for the info, it may come in handy if for some reason I cant get it down there next year, never know I guess.


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## doverosx (Aug 7, 2019)

Yeah no problem. We're in the same boat and I'm fairly confident waypoint will cost us less money .


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Ended up ripping out our pool last year (added an extra 600sqft baby!), got an unexpected promotion at work and the lawn journal went to $#!t!. Will be logging my adventure here again this year for record keeping purposes. Please feel free to chime in, dying to learn more this year as I try and advance my practice a little bit! I have bastardized a version of a google sheets document I am going to try and keep a tight regiment of updating. Sodded the area the pool was in, it took well.

**Any advice on humic/fulvic/kelp blend and liquid aeration for Canadians would be appreciated (I also have access to the US border if needed and not illegal up here)!

The Rough Plan:
Step 1 - Waypoint, the TN office this time lol. Rake and assess this weekend when I pull the plugs.

Step 2 - "Level Lawn Canada" is shipping me out a 36" level lawn tool, site seems sketchy as hell, hoping I don't get ripped off. Will find out next week.

Step 3a - Wake-me-up fert .25# of a 2:1 N:K ratio (lab test may change this) Humic/Fulvic/Kelp app
Step 3b - Quick 50/50 screened compost/sand thin top dressing to level some areas out.

Step 4 - PreM (~ May 1): prodiamine WDG at the full rate out front and about a 4 month rate out back.

Step 5 - Sort out some form of irrigation plan, will need to be DIY and mobile, thinking Ryan Knorr's version?

Thats it for now!

Thanks for any advice and thanks for keeping this forum awesome, I love lurking and absorbing all the info you all put down!


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Received the "Level Lawn" knock off I ordered from  here . Sketchy order for sure but it was super fast shipping from Thailand, they quoted 7 business days it was here in 3. It seems like it will do the trick for sure. I would not say this is of professional landscaping company quality but will absolutely serve its purpose this spring and fall! Here are a couple pictures of how it arrived and what it looks like in case you're a fellow canuck having a hard time finding one and are on the fence.







Sending off the Waypoint sample today now that I have the correct form sorted out. I sent this off to the wrong Waypoint lab last year not realizing TN was the only place to take "international" samples so keep that in mind. Locally, Guelph University did a good job for about $50 but if you read back here some folks were asking about things like CEC and other items they did not include. Looking forward to getting this back from Waypoint this year, submitting front and back this year to try and get both areas on the same page.

As for the spring rake and fluff, some snow mold and trampled areas courtesy of the dog. I see some immature clover starting in the same areas last year. I hit them with Tenacity last year and thought I was in the clear when they turned white but no such luck. Also noting this purple clover like stuff growing in front of the vegetable garden, its ugly and my first instinct is to burn it before it takes over. I will work to identify it and handle it appropriately, I believe the total area it has made home is small enough to just pull it out.



Will be losing some sqft this year around July, we just had a landscaping company here for a quote and the kids are getting an obnoxious playhouse but I am still going to go ham on the lawn so whatever stays is lush.

Soil temps are averaging 50 here now but were not in the clear yet, abnormally hot week last week can be blamed for those temps, aiming for the first fert app here in a couple weeks on my spoon feeding attempt. Still looking into this and sourcing the humic/fulvic/kelp blend.

Cheers!


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

jaykrooze said:


> Sending off the Waypoint sample today now that I have the correct form sorted out. I sent this off to the wrong Waypoint lab last year not realizing TN was the only place to take "international" samples so keep that in mind. Locally, Guelph University did a good job for about $50 but if you read back here some folks were asking about things like CEC and other items they did not include. Looking forward to getting this back from Waypoint this year, submitting front and back this year to try and get both areas on the same page.


Like me, you have alkaline soil. As such you may want to use the western soil sample submission form (SW series test) as pointed out to me by @Ridgerunner last year after I got my S3M results back.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=249744#p249744

Reason being that calcium and CEC levels are inaccurate for high pH unless you use the AA method from the SW series tests.


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Do you have alkaline soil? If so, you may actually want to use the western soil sample submission form (SW series test) as pointed out to me by @Ridgerunner last year after I got my S3M results back. Reason being that calcium levels are inaccurate for high pH unless you use the AA method from the SW series tests.
[/quote]

I had not heard of this yet, thanks for the suggestion The sample from last year was 7.6 so I guess that would be considered mid road alkaline. Can you confirm this is the form for it? I guess with this I am looking at the SC3 for the samples? The SC5 seems like it wouldn't be the correct one?

Sulphur was suggested to me last year but I wasn't able to source it or apply it however have a bead on some if I need it this year moving forward to try and drop it over time.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

jaykrooze said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have alkaline soil? If so, you may actually want to use the western soil sample submission form (SW series test) as pointed out to me by @Ridgerunner last year after I got my S3M results back. Reason being that calcium levels are inaccurate for high pH unless you use the AA method from the SW series tests.
> ...


That's the form but I think you actually want SW3 - that's the one I selected this year and that @g-man uses for his high pH soil.

I'm holding out on seeing if last year's sulfur apps moved the needle at all on my pH (even if temporarily) before deciding if I order more this year. I'll post in my 2021 log what I decide.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I use SW1 to save $5. The SW3 tests for nitrogen that is pointless for us.


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

davegravy said:


> jaykrooze said:
> 
> 
> > davegravy said:
> ...


Thanks as always, I will give that one a shot and post it up when it comes back. Appreciate it!


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

g-man said:


> I use SW1 to save $5. The SW3 tests for nitrogen that is pointless for us.


Thank you!


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Hey @g-man and @davegravy 
I got my results back from the SW1 you suggested. I am not sure if I did something wrong here or what is going on. I only got about half of the results listed back, the ones just off the top of my head that were listed in the included portion were CEC, P, K, Ca.


This is my first time navigating their portal, I have been unable to see any report type like others show on here in the graph. I would imagine it is an issue with the way I submitted it but any experience with this?

Thanks in advnace.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Looks like it's maybe in progress still. Maybe they've done the M3 and BI but not AA tests yet. If you're concerned, I'd give them a call.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

They are not done with the test. They should email you when they are done.


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

@g-man @davegravy 
Absolutely correct. Jumped the gun I guess!


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Full test results. Whoever said front and back should be submitted as one needs to look at these bad boys, quite the difference. One thing is for sure, the calcium level sure proves the clay soil over here I think!

Front Lawn:



Back Lawn:



Just tossed down 12lbs Elemental Sulphur in the front and 11lbs in the back. Sulphur levels already on the high side but that pH is whack. Front sure is looking nice after the double cut today, temps and rain around here have it looking healthy!

Front April 8th - First Cut ~2.25"



Today after a double cut, same HOC, took a bit too much off at once.


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Ordered some FAS supplies today after running into a good conversation going on in here. There is also a link in there to a good conversation surrounding FAS (keep the cool season rates in mind). I do have some chelated iron but with my pH being so high I am concerned that it will not be taken up. @Harts pointed me in the right direction with a Canadian amazon link to the ammonium sulfate ($32 with shipping) and I found this one for the Ferrous Sulfate($29 with shipping). Both of these are cheaper options than the chelated iron especially when considering shipping from Fla. The ferrous sulfate is from a woodworking site as it can be used to bring out the tannins in wood which is a nice dual purpose for my other hobby! This is the same you can find elsewhere. Always tough to find products locally so leaving this post in case they help anyone else out or to remind me next year where I found it. I will report back when I get it and we will see how well my alkaline lawn takes it up! I am also going to do a little experiment on one strip where I will put down some Chelated Iron for a direct comparison.

Cheers!


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Just to clarify: a chelated iron source will still be available to the grass in high PH soil. A non-chelated source will not be as readily available.

So, the options are to use a chelated iron, such as the Southern AG which will be available immediately through the grass blades as well as afterwards once it is washed off with irrigation. The other option is ferrous sulfate which will only be available for the length of time it sits on the grass.

Be careful with your experiment as, I believe, the ferrous sulfate and chelated iron are going to have different percentages of FE. The point being if one is 12% FE and the other is 5%, you're going to see different results.


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Harts said:


> Just to clarify: a chelated iron source will still be available to the grass in high PH soil. A non-chelated source will not be as readily available.
> 
> So, the options are to use a chelated iron, such as the Southern AG which will be available immediately through the grass blades as well as afterwards once it is washed off with irrigation. The other option is ferrous sulfate which will only be available for the length of time it sits on the grass.
> 
> Be careful with your experiment as, I believe, the ferrous sulfate and chelated iron are going to have different percentages of FE. The point being if one is 12% FE and the other is 5%, you're going to see different results.


Thanks, I have that backwards. I will watch my rates when applying. I was just thinking about leaving one small measured section out of the non-chelated section and using the Southern AG Iron in that spot at its suggested rate.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Harts said:


> Just to clarify: a chelated iron source will still be available to the grass in high PH soil. A non-chelated source will not be as readily available.
> 
> So, the options are to use a chelated iron, such as the Southern AG which will be available immediately through the grass blades as well as afterwards once it is washed off with irrigation. The other option is ferrous sulfate which will only be available for the length of time it sits on the grass.
> 
> Be careful with your experiment as, I believe, the ferrous sulfate and chelated iron are going to have different percentages of FE. The point being if one is 12% FE and the other is 5%, you're going to see different results.


If I'm not mistaken, some chelations are better suited to high pH vs low pH soil. EDDHA is a good performer in high pH but I gather it's expensive and I haven't been able to source any locally.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

davegravy said:


> Harts said:
> 
> 
> > Just to clarify: a chelated iron source will still be available to the grass in high PH soil. A non-chelated source will not be as readily available.
> ...


You are correct. EDDHA is better suited for high PH soils than DTPA and EDTA. This is an extension taken from the Univ. Arizona Extension:
_
"Chelated iron fertilizers include Fe-DTPA, Fe-EDDHA, and
Fe-EDTA. Iron added in these forms will remain available
longer than non-chelated iron, although even these forms of
iron will not remain available to plants indefinitely in high
pH soils. Fe-EDDHA is more effective in high pH soils than
Fe-DTPA or Fe-EDTA. When buying chelated iron, read the
fertilizer label to make sure that all the iron is in chelated
form. Some fertilizer labels indicate that the fertilizer contains
chelated iron, but careful reading of the label reveals that only
a few percent of the iron is chelated. "_


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Spring Fert Plan:
Front [Recommended lbs: 4/3/3]
10-20-5 @ 11.25lbs gives me 0.75/1.5/0.4 now
This fills the need to get half of the phosphorus in the spring. 
36-0-0 @ 4.2lbs gives me another 1lbs of N about 5-6 weeks after previous app.

FAS materials ordered and on the way

Back [Recommended lbs: 4/2/4
10-20-5 @ 10lbs gives me .5/1/0.3 now
-Less N here, targeting the 1lbs P in spring will leave me with a heavier app of N in a couple weeks. It needs a boost back there. 
36-0-0 @ 6.25lbs gives me 1.5lbs N. Will split this app in two 4-6 weeks after previous app.

Looking into the humic/fulvic/kelp blend order as well, not sure what direction I will be heading with this yet.

Also, going with Scotts Summerguard for the 36-0-0 it has a wetting agent, has anyone used this yet?

:nod: New irrigation system is on the way. :mrgreen:


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

Front yard is looking super nice. Always a pleasure to step back and have a look when all other lawns are covered in dandelions this time of year!

Being critical as to work towards improving and learning, I find it to be still quite blotchy here and there. Reached out for help identifying what is hopefully a tall fescue and not quackgrass up front, still haven't determined what's up with that. I have upgraded my sprayer with hopes of spoon feeding the front yard and finally received the FAS components in the mail. I also spent about 3 hours reading the FAS Thread and still did not get through the whole thing but have a much clearer understanding of what to do in that department. Planning on trying without the citric acid at first as I am having trouble sourcing some for a reasonable price.

May 2 2021



Major reno work going on in the backyard this year as the season progresses. I am working to amend the soil with the suggested P and K while applying regular usual amount of N and fighting off any weeds with a Post emergent (need another dose of Tenacity as you can tell by the not-quite-dead clover in the pics). Will likely need to do some levelling and heavy seeding come fall. Step one was to install this climber for the kids, step two will be the landscaping and three will be the new irrigation system :mrgreen:

May 1 2021


May 2 2021



Stay safe, cheers!


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## amartin003 (Apr 30, 2021)

Looks good! I'm in Hamilton, just starting my journey into lawn care! I'm curious where you got your Tenacity from?


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## SodFace (Jul 17, 2020)

Wow your front is on fire. Looks great. Even the back has bounced back faster than mine.

Nice playground! I put one in last year and it has certainly paid for itself!


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

amartin003 said:


> Looks good! I'm in Hamilton, just starting my journey into lawn care! I'm curious where you got your Tenacity from?


Hey, Welcome!

This is the site to be browsing if you're just getting started. I wish I found this earlier, these folks are literal geniuses. Awesome feedback and guidance for newbs and if you wanna get crazy into it and fall down a couple deep chemistry/biology rabbit holes you'll find that here too! haha

I got my Tenacity from Seed World, feel free to shoot me a PM for clarification. Always tough finding items north of the border. Have a quick read through the hometown groups for Canada and Ontario, lots of good info there!

Thanks for stopping in,


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

SodFace said:


> Wow your front is on fire. Looks great. Even the back has bounced back faster than mine.
> 
> Nice playground! I put one in last year and it has certainly paid for itself!


Hey, thanks!

The back has been an ongoing challenge. It is uuuuuugly up close I promise you that, it is coming along though, very high traffic back there. Also couple areas where I struggle are not in that pic but will hopefully be covered in concrete/pavers within the next couple months.

Playground might be the best money we spend all year. Worth the two days of hell putting it up. I love the substrate you did around the slide on yours in your lawn journal. In retrospect I wish I would have done the whole thing like that for ours but I was impatient in putting this thing up! Hopefully the irrigation will keep the ground soft enough so the kids bounce, ha!


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## SodFace (Jul 17, 2020)

jaykrooze said:


> SodFace said:
> 
> 
> > Wow your front is on fire. Looks great. Even the back has bounced back faster than mine.
> ...


I think I need to do around the swings this year. Grass isn't bouncing back in big spots under the swings. The big blue saucer one tends to block light and rain too


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

SodFace said:


> jaykrooze said:
> 
> 
> > SodFace said:
> ...


I know the feeling, we have a small kids sized trampoline with the tall sides that slowly rotates around the yard all year. Its actually kind of nice because in the spots that struggle I will leave it there for respite from the sun for a few days and it fills in. haha


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Welcome brother!


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