# Bewitched Reno



## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Started a complete front yard do over in small phases a few years ago and finally got seed down on Labor Day this week so thought to document some of it here while I try to be patient while the seed sprouts.

I don't have any complete before shots (house used to be Tudor style and have a small picket fence in front) handy but here's what it looked like earlier this Year:





And here is this week:







Highlights were:
Had tree service drop mature Red Oak next to drive.
Spent 6 weeks cutting up and splitting Oak.
Rented CTL and regraded both front and side yards.
Leveled two large landscape berms with CTL and used soil to flatten out side yard. 
Hauled in a few yards of horse manure from neighbors pasture. 
Hauled in a few more yards turkey manure from a nearby turkey farm.
Tilled and hand raked lawn to be.
Had cracked up driveway and walkway replaced. 
Designed irrigation system during rainy season.
Installed irrigation in all portions of to be seeded lawn during heat wave. 
Installed flagstone edging in front yard beds. 
Brought in 12 yds topsoil / compost mix to raise lawn around parts of new driveway (which was raised about 4 inches to get proper runoff).
Trimmed low hanging limbs all around lawn area.
Rented harley rake to do final seed bed prep. 
Hand Raked to level as much as possible. 
100% Bewitched KBG seed down 2.5-3lbs / 1k sq ft. To cover 10k sq ft.
Scotts starter with Mesotroine at bag rate.
Rolled with hand roller. 
Applied Pennington Slope Master mulch.
Rain started 3 hours after mulch was applied and here we are today.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Lookin good.


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## BBLOCK (Jun 8, 2020)

solid work ethic &#128077;


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

My neighbor has a horse kept on a 10 acre pasture across the street from my backyard. Last night the horse got loose and started running directly towards the reno. ... neighbor was shouting trying to call him back and at last minute the horse turned around.

Close call, that would have been almost as bad as someone driving a car through the mud in the front lawn.

Put up caution tape .... that should keep out next time... Ha, jk


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Now that I have some time while waiting for germination I'll post some more details of the steps above... I'm guessing it will be more of a blooper reel than greatest hits 







Gotta burn out that stump....



Burying the downspout drains to the gutter



No turning back now...


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Ended up making a muddy mess







Hauled in some horse manure saturated top soil, spread it around and used it to level out some low spots and build character 



... and then was offered some turkey manure from a farmer and thought I wouldn't pass it up .... take it from me, Pass that Up!!! I think we still smell it when it rains



Decided if I was changing the grade it was time to deal with sunken cracked up driveway that flooded every time it rains







Since it was now the hottest most humid time of year it only made sense to dig up my yard for 3 more weeks to install irrigation, just so I could remember to never take that project on again

Used the free layout service from Rainbird as a starting point, then tweaked it from advice on irrigation tutorials .com . Worked with local site one to order all the parts and went to town.

Got to regularly redig trenches after washouts from heavy rain.









After sprinklers were finally in needed to bring up level of lawn to match new driveway...

Got 12 yards of topsoil 30% compost mix hand spread and raked





Took care of flagstone edging before final seed bed prep


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

For final seed bed prep I got a mini skid with harley rake. Worked really well. We hadn't received significant rainfall in 6 weeks so ground was pretty hard.



I followed it up with hand raking to get rid of wheel tracks and fine tune it best i could. Was mentally tough because I could never get it exactly perfect.





That night it down poured and washed out some sections. Had to get it fixed asap and get seed down because rain everyday all next week.









Had to wait one day for things to dry up somewhat so I wasn't leaving 4 inch footprints and then decided the day had come to get that seed down.





The two sections divided by the drive are about 4500 sq ft and 6000 sq ft respectively. I had trouble with the scale I used and spreader settings on first side, so put down just 2lbs per sq ft seed on 4.5k side and then a full 3lbs per sq ft on 6k side.

Put down scotts starter with mesotroine at bag rate. After seed and fert down used a hand roller half full of water to roll the area.

Followed up with 18 bags of slope master mulch. Went heavy in the areas that washed out day before.



The light rain we were supposed to get that night turned a bit heavier but in the end we only got about 0.45 inches. Regardless I didn't sleep much worried of washouts  turned out the mulch held its place everywhere in the lawn. I did go out at one point in the night and found I still have some low spots I'll have to address in future.



Now it's a waiting game I guess. Will report back at site of first germination. Today is day 4 since seed down. I think I'll plant a bunch of 2 inch paper cups so I can have them for transplants in bare spots if needed.

I am a bit worried that the 2lbs per 1k sq ft rate of seed on north side of lawn was too light but have so far held back on walking out there and throwing more seed. (It is pretty muddy due to rain every day since seed down)


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Nice write-up! You're clearly no stranger to hard work and seem to have done an excellent job -- well done!

Had you ever used the "Slopemaster" before -- seems like it was a positive experience for you? I'm curious as to how much it cost and how much coverage you got out of each bag. Did the 18 bags (how big were the bags?) cover the full 10ksqft?


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

ken-n-nancy said:


> Had you ever used the "Slopemaster" before -- seems like it was a positive experience for you? I'm curious as to how much it cost and how much coverage you got out of each bag. Did the 18 bags (how big were the bags?) cover the full 10ksqft?


Thanks. I am pretty new at all of this so take my feedback with grain of salt.

I really had it in my head that I did not want to use straw for some reason and also had it in my head that peat moss was too expensive and would more easily wash away in rain. I searched around and found several different types of fiber based mulch with tackier in them (seems every big box store has a different style as well as site one -- site one style was my second choice). I choose Slope Master only because it was the cheapest and I had an old leftover gift card at Lowes. If you buy more than 5 bags and mention it to them you can get a 25% off contractor pack discount as well. So it actually ended up being cheaper than straw in my area (we pay at least $6 a bale).

I also like the idea that it could spread in a broadcast spreader (as specified on the bag). We have a basic Scotts edgeguard broadcast spreader and in practice it would not open up wide enough to spread this stuff efficiently. So I would say that was the biggest issue. If you had a small area it was very easy to carry around in 5 gallon bucket and spread by hand. It wasn't a problem for me though since I just gave this task to my 11 year old and told him to just keep pushing the spreader around until the whole yard was blue ...ha. I think the coverage was pretty good (I used 2 more bags than the bag rate called for). I have some light spots but I also have some heavy spots that were mostly caused by having to make so many random passes with the spreader and the 11 year old labor.

So far it has stayed exactly where I put it which was really my biggest concern. Time will tell.


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

Looks great! Nice work.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

psider25 said:


> ken-n-nancy said:
> 
> 
> > Had you ever used the "Slopemaster" before...?
> ...


First off, thanks for the additional information on the Pennington Slopemaster tackifier at Lowes.

I think you're exactly right to avoid straw -- it often brings in weed seeds (including the seeds of the straw itself) and often takes longer to decompose than desired. You're also exactly correct about peat moss shifting easily in the rain (that just happened to me yesterday in our current renovation.)

Glad to hear it seems to be working for you. Sounds like something I should give a try if (when?) we next do any renovating. Seems like it's a similar price to peat moss for the amount of coverage (maybe a little more expensive), but staying put is a huge bonus.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

@ken-n-nancy ..came out to roughly $180 for 10k sq ft (or about $10 per bag)


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

psider25 said:


> @ken-n-nancy ..came out to roughly $180 for 10k sq ft (or about $10 per bag)


Thanks for the info! Good to know that it works, but it is pricey! At $18/ksqft, it actually costs a bit more than elite KBG seed! (Which is typically about $15/ksqft, presuming $5/pound and KBG seed application at 3 pounds / ksqft.)


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

I ended up planting about 50 2 inch paper cups with seed today so I can have them for transplants for bare areas that may occur. Not sure if this will work or not but thought Its worth a shot.

Noticed quite a few stray leaves and hickory nuts out in the yard. Wondering if I should walk out there and pick them up? Or just leave them be for now.

More rain again through tomorrow until a week of sun and mild temps. Ground has been saturated from rain since seed down on Monday 4 days ago.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)




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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Washouts all over..... 5 days since seed down

Guess I should be reseeding asap.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Still coming down


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

This sucks. No other words can describe it.

Plus IL is getting all the rain and here in Indy we had 3 week without any.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

@g-man @Pete1313 other kbg reno vets ...

At this stage in the game, would you just go ahead and reseed right away? Today is day 5 since seed down (day 0 is seed down). I haven't done the flashlight check yet, but in daylight I don't see germ.

I'll need to bring in just a touch of top soil to fill in the 1 - 2 inch deep channel that the rain cut down the slope, but plan to just broadcast about 1 lb per 1k sq ft everywhere else.

Should i roll it in? would that hurt anything that is on the cusp of germinating of just germinated assuming some does germinate in 1-2 days when it dries out and I can walk out there without sinking in the mud

There is a 6 inch tall pile of seed, slope master, and top soil at the bottom of my small slope in my neighbors flower bed (which is really just a weed bed currently)

Well.... maybe I might have found one tiny bewitched plant that germinated?? Can't tell for sure


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would wait until tomorrow to do anything. It is too wet today to walk out there. Do a flash light check tomorrow am and see rain did not cause problems.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

@g-man gave good advice. With all the rain this week I would be surprised if you didn't need to reseed spots. Wait until tomorrow or Monday at the latest and then make the decision.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Thanks @g-man and @Pete1313

Pete I believe you used a cellulose based mulch with tackifier like I did. It did really well in all the rain this week until the prolonged down this morning. The rain broke it up and moved it into piles ( not very thick however). Do you think I'm going to need to rake those out a bit so they are not so dense? Or just leave em alone?







If i do decide to put more seed down tomorrow or Monday (I already know I will in at least the 2 inch rutts where i need a little top soil as well. ) will it hurt the baby seedlings that may have just germinated that same day to walk on them? Can I use a hand roller to roll over them as well to get the new seed and any seed that floated around pressed back in the soil?


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

I raked off one of the dense blue mulch piles near the driveway with my hand and found quite a bit of seed washed under it.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Went out at 530 this morning with the phone flashlight and did not notice any germ. It's day 6. We haven't had any sun at all since seed down. Today and through the week the forecast is sun.

If it dries out enough ill go get one or two dozen bags or so of top soil fill in the ruts and reseed. I am thinking I should also just go ahead and put a blanket 1 lb per 1k sq ft more seed today as well since it is already sep 13th. Also really worried about walking out there on all that seed that us prob just germinating as I type.



I really tried hard to get things leveled and while there is only one section with rutts the rain kind of pushed things around into bunches and undid a decent amount of leveling, but maybe that can just be undone with a heavy roller in the spring. At day 6 after seed down its prob too late to go out there and rake out the clumps and piles of soil mulch and seed the rain made?


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

The rain is such a pain and is disheartening. I dealt with washouts too. Having said that you are still only at day 6 and very well may get a bunch of germination in the next few days. My fingers are crossed for you!!!


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Ok, I got some bags of top soil from menards against my best judgement and used them to fix the ruts the rain created down the small hill in my side yard. I then spread a generous amount of seed on the new top soil.

Since the ground overall was not too muddy that I was sinking in i went ahead and spread about 9 lbs of seed over the whole 10k as an insurance policy. Today was day 6 since seed down and I could not see any germination so hopefully I didn't do any damage walking all over the lawn.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

I can't imagine trying to do a reno in the south east during hurricane season.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Looking hard for germ, but not seeing it yet. I think the green coming up are weeds....

Does anyone know how long it takes Tenacity to bleach and kill little baby weeds that do come up? I do have some worry the down pour may have broken my mesotroine (from the scotts starter+weed) pre emergent barrier.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Next on the list is to start learning the ins and outs of the Rachio App. I really haven't used the brand new irrigation system I installed yet other than to run it so I could adjust the head spray patterns due to all the rain we got since seed down.

Upon first glance it does not seem straight forward to setup a recurring schedule for multiple times a day and not run during the night.... we will see


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Patience with the germination. It is still early.

For the rachio, I setup different daily schedules. A 9am for all zone 3min that runs everyday. Then a noon for 4min, etc. If it was raining, I manually turned them off for that day.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Got some nice deep deer foot prints through the new top soil I just spread. I guess they thought it was like a red (really black) carpet for them to follow. They sunk in a few inches so my soil must be pretty saturated.

Last night I setup my Rachio to start watering like 3 minute intervals starting today. This morning it showed a watering delay due to soil saturation ...so even it agrees  guess I need to let things dry out more and may just have to water the small strip of new top soil by hand.

I was not motivated enough to go out before sun up to do a flashlight check for germ, so will do it tonight.

High 70s and sunny this week and then low 60s this weekend.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Ok, went out at noon time just for the heck of it and see some initial germination next to the driveway where the rain pushed the seed. This would be day 7 since seed down.

I guess patience is not my virtue.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Finally is dark enough to take a flash lit pic 





Evening of day 7...


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Yay. Hopefully the weather stays good for you. Warm and no more washouts.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

So here are day 8 pics. . Its really popping in the spots the seed washed into thick piles.

Everywhere else still seems like a waiting game





I am also trying to get the soil moisture content happy. The ground was completely saturated from the 2.5 inch down poor last weekend. You can see in the low spots the ground has turned green (that is not seedlings) i think from staying too wet?

Problem is in the non-low spots the ground was starting to dry out on the very top layer... even Crack in some spots, so trying to let it dry out but not too much that the top layer is dry to touch.



I rolled the seed into most ground when I seeded, and am wondering if multiple light rains and one heavy downpour was enough to push the seed deeper into the soil where it will have a hard time germinating..... time will tell


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Don't let it dry out.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Day 9









North side (top photos) has noticeable pockets of germination from a distance. South side ( bottom photos does not have significant germination)

South side of lawn has much less of a drainage slope and is noticeably wetter. Maybe that is slowing down germination.

For comparison, you can see the blue slope master mulch after a normal rain but prior to the heavy rain event.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

DAY 9 after seed down night pics:

Good germination location example:



Lagging germination Iocation example:



I'm getting petty good germ everywhere the blue slope master mulch still exists, but in the bare dirt locations the ground is still very moist but not much germ. The ground itself is turning green in some of those locations and not from a fuzzy seedling hue  .... not sure exactly why

My test cups I started 6 days ago now have a couple sprouts as well.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Algae or moss. Too wet is a problem since the seed can rot.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Fellow washout victim here. Mine came around day 9. Almost 5 inches of rain in 24 hours, but only 2.5 hours of actual rain time. I ended up dropping an additional 1.5 lbs/k (originally dropped 3 lbs/k). Overall happy I did that. If I could go back, I would have only dropped an additional 0.5-1 lb/k in the front yard (back yard rate seems appropriate now), but it was impossible to know what would work at the time.

The seed washed into piles I'm finding is the worst part. They come in bright green, appear to be overcrowded, do not tiller, and are more prone to fungus. Wish I had done something to try to spread those out.

It looks like you have some pretty even germination happening so I wouldn't sweat it too much. It should look great in a couple of weeks.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

@bf7 ... yup I am kinda wishing the same since the washouts happened before germ I now wish I would have spread those piles of seed and slope master mulch with a rake. This is my first reno and I was too worried about stepping on the about to germ seed or disturbing it and killing it, but now I think it may have helped. Overall things are looking great in about 60 percent of the yard and only 40 percent has piles and large bare spots ... and I keep forgetting it has only been 10 days and also that I put a little more seed down 4 days ago.

Checkout the mesotroine doing its job on a lone weed this morning...


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Nice! Same here...I was afraid of disturbing the seeds but I'm learning they need space in order to thrive. A slightly bare area where plants are attempting to reach out and spread is better than an overcrowded one.

You may find in areas where you had significant soil runoff, your Tenacity barrier was weakened or eliminated, and you could get a lot of weeds there.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

g-man said:


> Algae or moss. Too wet is a problem since the seed can rot.


Other than potentially rotting the seed because the ground is too wet, is there a worry about algae or moss? I would think it isn't moss. I never had moss there before. When I seeded the ground was barely dry enough to walk on without leaving footprints from rain two days before ...then it rained lightly every day since for a week before a 2.5 inch rain event ...after which is has not rained for 5 days. So everything has been saturated for over a week. I have been only watering 2-3 times per day since the rain stopped for anywhere from 2-5 min per zone. In the fall I don't really have a full 6 hours of sun anywhere... I guess there is not much I can do about it since drying out would be worse I assume.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

psider25 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > Algae or moss. Too wet is a problem since the seed can rot.
> ...


The biggest concern (as you've noted) is that algae is a symptom of being too wet, which isn't good either for seed germination or the baby grass.

In general, I wouldn't be worried about the algae if it is a green algae in a thin layer, which is what it seems you have right now. However, if that persists for a long time (generally a couple of months), it can turn into a tough black crust which becomes a barrier to water penetrating it. It forms a layer almost like black enamel paint, but will have a bit more thickness to it, almost like a real thin black automotive undercoating. If it gets to that point, you should do something about it.

I had a black algae problem in a small patch of my front lawn before our 2018 front lawn renovation. It was a low spot where I had bare soil since the prior fall due to killing a patch of _Poa trivialis_ there and having it fallow for nearly a year. It developed algae in it during the soggy month of April, which then formed that black crust, which remained there all summer, because I wasn't worried about it, since it was a patch I wanted dead anyway. I only realized the black algae was going to be a problem when scratching up the soil to get ready for seeding, and there was this hard crusty layer on top that clearly wasn't going to take seed. I read up on algae, mechanically broke up the crusty layer, sprayed chlorothalonil on the immediate area, and never had any problems during the renovation. The problem has never returned.

I'd suggest you confirm that your algae is just a green layer and has not developed into a hard black crust. If it hasn't crusted I wouldn't worry about it, other than to take it as a sign that you're watering too much. If it forms a crust, what I described above got rid of it for me.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

New thing growing in the lawn... some kind of fungus. Does this mean I need to start worrying about fungal pressures. It is going to be low of 39 degF tonight highs in mid to low 60s this weekend.

Not all fungus in the yard is a worry, but I have no idea how to differentiate unless the grass is suffering.





Been seeing lots of worm casting piles as well.


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

I'm not an expert on the subject, but I think you typically would worry about fungal pressure when high levels of moisture are combined with warm overnight lows (like around 70 F). I would continue your watering schedule because your priority is to stimulate growth in the new seedlings, but as a point of reference I applied Propiconazole 30 days after seeding at a preventative rate to discourage any fungal growth.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Day 12 since seed down...

Some areas are very evenly germinating, most are very patchy from washout...


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)




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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Today is 13 days since seed down and I guess 6 ish days since germ.

What experience is out there regarding how long to wait before walking on the baby and still germinating grass?

I have a couple hickory trees dropping nuts I would like to pick up and also would like to inspect some areas out in the middle i can't see up close from the sidelines.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Wormcastings are going crazy...

Hopefully all these piles won't harm the new seedlings. The new piles seem to be getting larger.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Day 15 since seed down ...starting to see multiple leaf plants in the sparse areas.

Pretty splotchy but new germ from reseed started to pop up yesterday. Weather this week is sunny high 70s and 50s at night.

... man worm castings galore. I never realized how big those piles could be.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Day 16 since seed down. It really looks nice from a distance with morning dew... hard to see the bare spots 





I'm itching to get out there and pick up the hickory nuts and acorns. The squirrels are starting to pick them up and bury them under the seedlings  Do they really remember where all their buried "treasure" is?


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Day 20 since seed down pics... posting them because looks like thunderstorm is on the way for tonight. Hopefully the precip rate is mellow.

@bf7 @JerseyGreens have given me some hope that week old seedlings could survive a storm though 🤞 my neighbor had a tiny amount of straw sitting on his driveway so I threw it on the slope that washed into ruts last storm. ... not sure why I did but whatever









Pictures make it look much better, looking down you can see all the variations between the thin spots and crazy dense spots from the early on washouts, but seems like almost everything will fill in.

I did get out and walk on it for the first time to pick up about 4 five gallon buckets of hickory nuts.

Cool thing i saw was that the grass is actually poking through some of the leaves that have stuck down to the soil 



Other latest battle is the squirrels digging everywhere 

All in all things are coming along.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I see seedlings in nearly all of your areas. Some are just slower which I'm learning now. They will come out and thicken up.

You are par for the course. Fingers crossed for a warm fall - good job with this!


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

@JerseyGreens Thanks. What did you do about your hickory nuts? Do you go out a pick them up regularly or are you going to just let them all fall and pick them up later? Seems like the trees have a heavy nut year every other year and this is it ...of coarse


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

psider25 said:


> @JerseyGreens Thanks. What did you do about your hickory nuts? Do you go out a pick them up regularly or are you going to just let them all fall and pick them up later? Seems like the trees have a heavy nut year every other year and this is it ...of coarse


Oh they sure do. Mine was last year thank God!

I bought this
https://www.gardenweasel.com/garden-weasel-products/garden-weasel-tools/weasel-medium-nut-gatherer/

Lifesaver man. Honestly...best equipment purchase made this year and I bought a lot of stuff hah!

The small acorns it didn't get but it did well with the hickory nuts. I don't think the small would get the hickory nuts through.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Almost forgot... looks temps are going to dip here for the next week and a half, we may see upper 30s at night. Got me thinking about making sure to be on someone's schedule to blow out my irrigation system.

When I installed the irrigation (SDR 21 1 inch PVC) I did not put in drains (well just a couple anyway where I left Ts on the main line for future expansion.). So really need to make sure I get it blown out before any significant freeze.

@g-man do you have any feedback related to being at 20 days since seed down (Today 27th Sep) and when I could get away with not watering any more for the year?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Maybe Thanksgiving.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

This looks really good for 20 days. Whether the seedlings survive the storm mainly depends on 1) how young they are, 2) the rate of rainfall, and 3) slopes. Anything that has been there a week should be sufficently rooted. I'd be worried about anything under a few days old. But I doubt you are getting the amount of rain I got earlier (almost 2 inches per hour at its worst).


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

...dodged the storm We ended up getting a nice steady rain overnight ~0.3 inches. The grass almost seemed to look more mature this morning after the rain, or just me relived we didn't get a down pour


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Day 29 since seed down.

Put down some granular Menards 28-0-3 forever green with 1% iron that I had. Tried for 0.25 lbs N. Seemed like almost impossible to get that down evenly since the spreader was barely throwing out anything at that rate. We will see.

I am already starting to think about how soon I can do it again.


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

I would think about mixing a bag of milorganite in that and use it. The low sgn of the milorganite helps with volume and you can open the settings up. It also doesn't have much N even if you put like 10 or 20lbs..


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Was out in the lawn picking up hickory nuts and noticed a bunch of spots where the grass is considerably shorter and now turning yellow at the tips.

I did attempt to broadcast .26 lbs N of granular fertilizer yesterday(i say attempt because it was barely coming out of the spreader at that rate, so I cannot imagine i burned anything. )

These spots have been sluggish to grow new leaves or height since shortly after germinating and remain very light green.

@JerseyGreens @ken-n-nancy @bf7 is this the same kind of yellowing you had?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Your third pic looks like the stuff I had. Might have been red thread. I see the purple. I also had lime green spots everywhere.

How much N have you put down so far? Most of my ugly grass was gone after an azoxy app and 2-3 spoon feedings. A few diseased blades here and there, but nothing crazy. Keep the grass as dry as possible while getting the water you need. For me that was one deep morning water per day.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

bf7 said:


> Your third pic looks like the stuff I had. Might have been red thread. I see the purple. I also had lime green spots everywhere.
> 
> How much N have you put down so far? Most of my ugly grass was gone after an azoxy app and 2-3 spoon feedings. A few diseased blades here and there, but nothing crazy. Keep the grass as dry as possible while getting the water you need. For me that was one deep morning water per day.


Put down Scotts Starter at bag rate on seed down day (30 days ago) and then just did 0.25 lbs yesterday. Think I should do another 0.25 lbs asap? I could even selectively throw a handful right into the yellow spots directly?

It was very cool all last week (in upper 30s at night) but will be in high 70s low 80s highs this week.

I was thinking to reduce watering frequency as well as I have still been on germination schedule.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Forgot to ask ...red thread isn't lethal to KBG correct? No need for fungicide for that, if so....

I am trying to maximize Mycorrhizae in this lawn if I can

@g-man @ken-n-nancy any opinions?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Spoon feedings at 0.25 lbs/k every 6 days have been working well for me. I didn't treat yellow areas any different.

Given we have this surge of warm weather and you are running up against the end of fall, it may benefit you to increase the frequency of your feedings but I wouldn't panic and throw down a bunch at once. Maybe every 5 days or something like that.

On the red thread, I definitely had some seedlings die off. I thought KBG was relatively strong against it but for whatever reason I always get it in my yard. I think it's a fungus that prefers colder weather. I believe fungicide helped to prevent spread but didn't save the grass already infected.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)




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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

psider25 said:


> Was out in the lawn picking up hickory nuts and noticed a bunch of spots where the grass is considerably shorter and now turning yellow at the tips.
> 
> These spots have been sluggish to grow new leaves or height since shortly after germinating and remain very light green.
> 
> @JerseyGreens @ken-n-nancy @bf7 is this the same kind of yellowing you had?


Hmm. That's concerning. It doesn't look quite like anything I've seen in any of the renovations we have done, so I don't have direct experience with it.

A couple thoughts / observations / questions though...

It really looks like there are "spots" that have the problem -- it appears localized to particular places. It also seems that there are clusters of what look like rocks near some of the problem spots. What are those? Is that PennMulch or something like that?

I'm wondering if the yellowing spots are lower areas where the soil is wetter or water is puddling? It almost seems to me that the yellowing may be caused by overwatering. In some of the photos, it looks like the soil is not just moist, but wet. How often or how much are you watering? It you pull a core of soil, or stick your finger into the soil, is the soil wet? Watering should really just keep the soil moist, not wet. If you were to pick up a little bit of soil and squeeze it, there shouldn't be any water coming out. The soil really should be no wetter than a sponge that you have squeezed as hard as you possibly can to get all the water out. What one is looking for is really just a "color change" in the soil -- it shouldn't look dry, but shouldn't actually feel wet. If it feels wet, it's too wet.



psider25 said:


> I did attempt to broadcast .26 lbs N of granular fertilizer yesterday(i say attempt because it was barely coming out of the spreader at that rate, so I cannot imagine i burned anything. )


Yeah, that can be a problem if using 46-0-0 urea. Personally, I like using a fertilizer with very fine granules for "spoon feeding" on a renovation. Personally, I have been using Scotts TurfBuilder 32-0-4 for my "spoon feedings." It is horribly pricey for large areas, but I only have 2250 square feet under renovation, so it's tolerable.



psider25 said:


>


Some of the photos (like the foreground of the one above) seem to have a greenish cast on the bare soil. Is that some sort of algae starting to form? (Actually, I just read back in your journal, and see you already asked about algae, and I already replied on that item.) If so, that's another potential indication of the soil just being too wet. How often are you watering? Do you know how much water is being put down?

In any case, it looks like there is enough grass establishment there that you should be switched over to once-daily watering now. We've been watering our renovation just once a day at 7:30am since about Day 28 since seed-down. For about 7 days before that, we had dropped to watering only twice a day. (That is, we only did "germination watering" for the first three weeks. We've also tended to very light watering.) Getting germination watering right is definitely more tricky for those with heavier soil -- in some ways, we're blessed to have sandy soil in our lawn, as water flows through the soil practically like being on the beach. Heavier soil makes it more difficult to get watering just right.



psider25 said:


>


Even in what seems like the barest spots in the above photo, I think I see enough grass that if the plants there can be nurtured to survive, that bare spot will fill in surprisingly quickly in the spring. The danger with reseeding and continuing "germination watering" for a second wave of seeds is that the extra water stresses what has already germinated. I've usually had the best success by doing what is right for _*most*_ of the grass and letting what is lagging do its best to follow along in the wake.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Just wanted to provide some more encouragement that your bare spots still have hope. Below is a photo from a "sparse valley" in our ongoing renovation. We had an area that washed out from a major downpour, and left a barren area where the water carried the seeds and peat moss away:

Close-Up of a "Sparse Spot" in the "Lilac Area" as of 17 September 2020 (Day 22):









Closer View of a "Sparse Valley" in the "Lilac Area" as of 17 September 2020 (Day 22):









We didn't add more seed. Below is a view of the same "sparse valley" two weeks later:

Closer View of a "Sparse Valley" in the "Lilac Area" as of 1 October 2020 (Day 36):


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Thanks @ken-n-nancy ... what looks like rocks is pennington slope master mulch. It got pushed into piles during a washout in first week after seed down, hence the uneven germination in those areas.

My plan for now is to just keep up with spoon feedings of N and back off the water. I'll let the top layer dry out visually before applying any more water.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

So, wondering if there could be any weight to another theory... a lot of the yellow spots are really thick seedlings from where washout pushed seed and slope master mulch in piles. The granular fert i put down was probably larger prill size. Maybe the large granules got stock on top of very dense areas of turf or slope master and burned leaves?


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Some of the pale green spots from above have started to get very yellow. Still not sure if it is a fungus of not enough nitrogen. I posted the specific question in the cool season thread.
@g-man @ken-n-nancy @Virginiagal you don't think this could be fertilizer burn do you?

The lawn had zero N put down in 2020 until seed down day Sep 7th with Scotts Starter at bag rate (1lb N) which I think a good portion probably got washed away by heavy rain before the seedlings could use much of it ...and another 1lbN put down via 4 separate 0.25 lb N apps over the past two weeks.

The current plan is to throw down another 0.4 or so N (Scotts Green Max) this weekend in between rain showers.

Otherwise things are coming along well ...I mowed as low as my Toro Super Recycler would go and saw no scalping. Now comes the battle with leaves and nuts.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

other thread: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=344992#p344992


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)




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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)




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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

Picked up leaves and hickory nuts and mowed as low as the Toro super recycler would go. It was probably too wet/ muddy still, leaving some slight wheel depressions but more rain is coming this week.

Also dropped about .35 lbs N using Scotts Green Max after mowing.

Lawn got its first taste of "snow" this morning.

Didn't get as much N down as hoped this fall so will probably plan on a winterize r of fast release N after grass stops growing.


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