# Spring 2020 - Time to prep



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Spring is finally approaching. This year is even sooner than others. We had a nice taste of spring this weekend in Indy with highs in the 55F. It seems like we all had a mild winter. Hopefully we wont get a very hot summer.

Here is a list of friendly reminders for spring:

 Start sourcing your *PreM*. We are still early, but it is better than rushing at the end. Check this thread 
for  Local sources of Herbicides, Fertilizers and such. Also check your hometown thread for more local sources.
 It is also a good time to plan for your *soil testing*.
 While you are out and about, also get your fertilizer, fungicides, *grub control* supplies ready.
 *Sharpen* your mower blades, change the oil and air filter. 
 Use these* tools* to help guide your decision on when to drop the PreM: http://www.gddtracker.net/?model=7&offset=0&zip=46037 http://www.greencastonline.com/tools/soil-temperature
 TLF Forsythia map/tracker - https://tlf-forsythia-tracker.netlify.com

While you are out and buying stuff, also get your Grub Control product if you need to prevent them. I recommend Scott GrubEx. I'm not sure if there is a correlation of mild winter and more grubs the next year.

I've seen a few post with this question, "The weekend temps will be in 60F, should I apply PreM this weekend?" The answer is not really. The only real negative of applying too early is that it will wear out sooner. The air temperature is not a good indicator. Sustained soil temps are the best predictor. The GDD model already tries to account for an early application, so there is no need to go even earlier.


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

For our area around the first 2 weeks of April should be the target date for prodiamine. This is when historically the soil temps reach around 55 deg.

How do I split the app of prodiamine?

Start with the max I can apply for my grass type based on the label and divide by 3? One early spring, one late spring, then again in around August?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@john5246 Purdue did a two way split in this study. I like to do a 3 way split like you describe. I use the Prodiamine 65WDG at 5 grams/ksqft each time. I like using grams for this since 1)easy math and 2) better precision from my scale.


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## mrp116 (Mar 2, 2020)

Forsythia popped out everywhere around here the last couple of days.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2020)

I noticed the cool season guide recommends waiting until May to put down 1 lb N per 1k. Last year I put down 2lb of N per 1k in the spring and it was hard to keep up with the 1/3 rule mowing twice a week. I overfed the lawn last spring I have realized.

I bought a bag of 0-0-7 prodiamine from Lawn Care Nut's website last Tuesday or Wednesday and it was on my porch Friday when I got off work. I was impressed and would recommend his online store. Check it out if you are like me and can't get to a siteone or just too busy to shop around, very simple and efficient. Going to use that in March and prodiamine with fert to put down 1 lb of N in May like the guide suggests.

Grub killer is all I need until fall really. Might get 2-3 bags of Milo for a really light summer app depending on how things are going.


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## npompei (Sep 8, 2019)

Timely post. I need some clarification as I am ready to go but want to make sure:

1. I'm going to overseed in Sept. (new construction seeded this past fall - so new lawn, first spring) how do I split my Prodiamine? Do I go with 1 regular app now that may last me about 4-5 months? Or do I split it with lower rates, say in once in about 2 weeks, then again beginning of May? But that May app can only last roughly 4 months? I'm going granular...

2. Fertilizer timing - I can get straight 46-0-0 Urea (used to spoon feed this past fall on new lawn) and I believe was told to keep doing so this spring on the new grass. Roughly .25lb/k. Weekly? Bi-Weekly?
But when can I also put down my Fert? I bought 90lbs of X-Start 28-24-4 (soil test told me I'm low in P & K) so when should I start putting that stuff down? Do I wait for soil temps to get to a certain point? Or once green up starts? Or maybe right after I put down the Pre-M? Alternate with the Urea apps?

3. Soil temps - Front yard (full sun) was just over 50 degrees already here in SE PA! But back yard (less sun) was low-mid 40's. When and or how to you figure out the soil temps for the entire yard? Average them? Or once one major area is ready, it's time? I swear my neighbors Forsythia has a handful of yellow pops on it so I know it's getting close. This is easily the earliest Spring I can ever remember. I'm just worried that soil temps will get good, we put down Pre-M and then suddenly end of this month and into April we have a cold spell.

Thanks for the help!


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

macdawg said:


> I noticed the cool season guide recommends waiting until May to put down 1 lb N per 1k. Last year I put down 2lb of N per 1k in the spring and it was hard to keep up with the 1/3 rule mowing twice a week. I overfed the lawn last spring I have realized.
> 
> I bought a bag of 0-0-7 prodiamine from Lawn Care Nut's website last Tuesday or Wednesday and it was on my porch Friday when I got off work. I was impressed and would recommend his online store. Check it out if you are like me and can't get to a siteone or just too busy to shop around, very simple and efficient. Going to use that in March and prodiamine with fert to put down 1 lb of N in May like the guide suggests.
> 
> Grub killer is all I need until fall really. Might get 2-3 bags of Milo for a really light summer app depending on how things are going.


I've found the prices of products on his site to not be cost effective vs buying from domyown (prodiamine, fungicide, etc). If you look for sales and home depot/lowes you find some great deals for the spring, you can stock up with at least 2 of everything. This is the most cost effective way. Only order the things that are you unable to source locally. I'm sure you could've got prodimine cheaper online. Actually on this site there is a "marketplace" section where we do group buys. That's how I got mine. For around $26 I got 5yrs worth of prodiamine (16oz). Buy some urea from siteone if you can, and whatever slow release fertilizer is on sale and you should be all set for the year.


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## piotrkol (Oct 27, 2018)

Handy topic, thanks!

I also have a question. I noticed that some lawn companies near me are already core aerating and sanding lawns and sport fields. Soil temps are around 50-55f so grass is mostly dormant but there are signs of it coming back to life. Is putting down sand on a barely growing or even non growing grass ok? I really want to aerate and level with sand and I want to do it as early as possible. Any advice?


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Soil temps in the DMV were 52 on Monday. Only getting warmer I would suspect. I sprayed some CCO on Monday and threw down some dythiopyr(sp?) on Wednesday. Moss-out, soil test up next and then some Urea next week. Also getting some trees trimmed to allow more Sun on the grass.

Hoping to get a handle on the weeds from my my reno over the mild winter we had.


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## npompei (Sep 8, 2019)

@1028mountain how did things end up with your reno? I was following closely since we did ours around the same time and I felt like you were working through similar things to mine.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@npompei 1) if you want a successful overseed or reno, you don't want prem in your soil around August. Do a single application now at the 3-4month rate. You might get some crabgrass in late July, but you can hand pull those.

2) wait for green up to start fertilizing. You might need to alternate between products to keep your N rate from going too high.

3) apply the prem for both areas at the same time when the earliest one is ready. A cold spell will not screw up your prem.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@piotrkol I think sand could work on a dormant lawn if it is not too thick.


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## Matthew_73 (Jul 9, 2019)

npompei said:


> Timely post. I need some clarification as I am ready to go but want to make sure:
> 
> 1. I'm going to overseed in Sept. (new construction seeded this past fall - so new lawn, first spring) how do I split my Prodiamine? Do I go with 1 regular app now that may last me about 4-5 months? Or do I split it with lower rates, say in once in about 2 weeks, then again beginning of May? But that May app can only last roughly 4 months? I'm going granular...


I only know of the Liquid, but I would do a 4 month now and then in a few months, put a 3 month supply down and that should be gone in late August...


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

npompei said:


> @1028mountain how did things end up with your reno? I was following closely since we did ours around the same time and I felt like you were working through similar things to mine.


@npompei Honestly only time will tell. As you saw it started out great then went south fairly quickly. Today its a mix of grass, bare spots, weeds and a little moss in the front. Side and back yards look to be holding strong but something about my front just doesn't seem to be working right.

How is yours?


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## npompei (Sep 8, 2019)

thank you @g-man! Makes sense and that's simple stuff I can easily remember!

@1028mountain well things always look worse right after winter. I'm guessing it will fill in nice for ya.

Mine held on pretty good up till middle of winter I'd say. Only time will tell here but I think I'm good. I'm going to overseed with TFFF and KB in the fall since I only went PRG to get a quick lawn going. Hopefully it all takes ha. Or, just spend more $ and things will improve lol.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Where I am, it looks like Forsythia and temps are going to be about 3-4 weeks earlier than average. GDD tracker agrees, and me extrapolating is predicting pre-M will go down in mid to late March instead of mid April like last year.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Google sight telling me this is crab grass. Seems awfully early for it no?

https://flic.kr/p/2iBvDZr


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

A lot of areas south Kentucky, Missouri and portions of Virginia are showing green in the GDD tracker. The window to apply is opening for those areas. Plan your prem application for next weekend.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> Google sight telling me this is crab grass. Seems awfully early for it no?
> 
> 
> __
> https://flic.kr/p/2iBvDZr


That isn't crabgrass. Take a closer pic of the auricles if you can..


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## cpd5215 (Oct 11, 2019)

Stuofsci02 said:


> 1028mountain said:
> 
> 
> > Google sight telling me this is crab grass. Seems awfully early for it no?
> ...


Quackgrass?


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

cpd5215 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> > 1028mountain said:
> ...


Maybe, but a photo of the auricles will be the best way to tell. Quackgrass has clasping auricles...


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## cpd5215 (Oct 11, 2019)

Stuofsci02 said:


> cpd5215 said:
> 
> 
> > Stuofsci02 said:
> ...


If it is, what's the best treatment to kill it. I know I have it. Never dealt w it before. Thx.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

cpd5215 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> > cpd5215 said:
> ...


In KBG lawns there is nothing selective that I know of that will kill it. Roundup will, but it will also kill you good grass.

One strategy that can work well is to mow it out. What I mean by this is to keep your KBG at a lower height (2" or less). The quack grass does not like this HOC, and so it starts to wear it out to the point that it can die off over time.. The key is that you need to cut often. The quack grass grows fast, and if you let it get tall it starts to get in its element. Everytime it spends energy to grow, you cut it back down and don't let it get strong..


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## jingobah (May 6, 2019)

Greencast showing my soil temps could be 53 degrees this week so, I may spray my prodiamine tomorrow since it's gonna rain on Tuesday. I know the soil temps will go back down. Last year I applied it in late March which I felt was a bit too soon but, I just want that peace of mind for when soil temps do go above 55....


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## cpd5215 (Oct 11, 2019)

Stuofsci02 said:


> cpd5215 said:
> 
> 
> > Stuofsci02 said:
> ...


Thanks for that explanation.. I do have a ***/PRG blend that has quack growing in it...This quack is new to me. I had a patio installed in my backyard last summer and the contractor seeded w ***/PRG blend and then covered with straw. Im guessing that's the culprit right there from my research. Through reading this forum, it seems this quack is a beauty and not a lawn enthusiasts friend. There are several spots of quack I can identify but otherwise healthy good grass. Ive read not to pull because of the rhizomes. Like you mentioned, I can nuke it, but I don't want to blanket spray because of the good grass everywhere else. From reading, it sounds like "painting" the blades of the quack is prob the best route. What do you think?

Thanks!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Yes carefully paint the blades.


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## RichS (Jan 28, 2019)

I did mower prep at winterizing time, soil tests came back 2 weeks ago, this year's plan is documented, and my first order goes in tomorrow, so I'm ahead of the game for now.

For early fertilization, I've experimented over the last several years and have settled on Urea at about 0.3lb N/1,000 sq ft. in early April to get things started.

When I did nothing, even with the supposed "quicker green up" November urea application, things were yellowish and sluggish until the first full N application around Memorial Day.

0.5lb N and up got things going too quickly and I was mowing all the time, and I think it may have caused some of the disease issues. 0.3 greens things up without it going crazy, at least for me. Then it's good until the 1 lb. N in late May.


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## RichS (Jan 28, 2019)

jingobah said:


> Greencast showing my soil temps could be 53 degrees this week so, I may spray my prodiamine tomorrow since it's gonna rain on Tuesday. I know the soil temps will go back down. Last year I applied it in late March which I felt was a bit too soon but, I just want that peace of mind for when soil temps do go above 55....


I've found the GDD degree day-based forecasts better indicators of PreM application than soil temps. As you note, soil temps can change fairly quickly. Crabgrass doesn't instantly germinate as soon as the soil hits 55. Most research I've seen says at least 55 (some say 57-60) for at least 5-7days.

GDD also has a Crabgrass germination tracker, which, for me, has early germination about 3 weeks after the end of their PreM window, so slack/lead time is built in.

For me, $17 for a soil thermometer from Amazon was a great investment.


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## cpd5215 (Oct 11, 2019)

g-man said:


> Yes carefully paint the blades.


Thank you


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> Soil temps in the DMV were 52 on Monday. Only getting warmer I would suspect. I sprayed some CCO on Monday and threw down some dythiopyr(sp?) on Wednesday. Moss-out, soil test up next and then some Urea next week. Also getting some trees trimmed to allow more Sun on the grass.
> 
> Hoping to get a handle on the weeds from my my reno over the mild winter we had.


Are you in the DMV as in DC DMV? I'm up 270 past Frederick a little bit- maybe 50 minutes from DC and our soil is reading 39 degrees


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

I'm sure I'm on the wrong thread but figure I'd throw it out here. I did the nitrogen blitz for the first time last fall-now I'm planning on pre-em for the first time. What do you recommend? We have about 2 1/2 acres or so and have had problems with just about everything the past couple years- onion, clover, crabgrass, purple nettle- all seem to be the worst.

Also, because of pre-em, I'm assuming not to seed in the spring- only fall?


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

mpoland33 said:


> 1028mountain said:
> 
> 
> > Soil temps in the DMV were 52 on Monday. Only getting warmer I would suspect. I sprayed some CCO on Monday and threw down some dythiopyr(sp?) on Wednesday. Moss-out, soil test up next and then some Urea next week. Also getting some trees trimmed to allow more Sun on the grass.
> ...


Yeah man.

Just checked again and right around 48-50 depending on how deep I go.


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

man, I'm going off the website. I think I need to dig out there for myself!


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## ScottW (Sep 16, 2019)

I'm in Falls Church, VA. The shadiest part of my lawn had a soil temp of 46 yesterday, the full-sun areas were at 51. Have not put down a spring pre-em yet.

QUESTION/S:
I noticed while taking my soil samples that a lot of my baby grass from last fall's partial reno has very shallow/minimal roots. It was a mix of 3 or 4 top TTTF cultivars. It's green and looks good, but some sections don't have much in the way of roots. Later in the fall I put down prodiamine to prevent winter weeds, and that app was 45 days after seed-down or about 40 days post-germination. Was that possibly too soon, and might the prodiamine have inhibited some root growth? Should I use a different pre-em this spring? I have Tenacity on hand (short residual I know) and I can easily get dithiopyr which I have used in the past to satisfactory results at least w.r.t. crabgrass. Is any of the pre-ems easier on young grass roots? Is this even a concern or am I being paranoid?


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

mpoland33 said:


> man, I'm going off the website. I think I need to dig out there for myself!


I'm thinking the same thing, I don't really trust green cast's data. Where are all their soil temp readers anyway? You apply it the pre-em for your yard, it's irrelevant when your neighbor's soil is getting to 55


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

mpoland33 said:


> man, I'm going off the website. I think I need to dig out there for myself!


Yeah with how mild our winter was there was no way the ground was that cold (according to that website).


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

RichS said:


> jingobah said:
> 
> 
> > Greencast showing my soil temps could be 53 degrees this week so, I may spray my prodiamine tomorrow since it's gonna rain on Tuesday. I know the soil temps will go back down. Last year I applied it in late March which I felt was a bit too soon but, I just want that peace of mind for when soil temps do go above 55....
> ...


@RichS, I agree with the GDD models being a better indicator and is why I use them as well. One could always use the good ol' forsythia also. If you track both of them, they are both fairly close to each other.. at least in my area.



john5246 said:


> mpoland33 said:
> 
> 
> > man, I'm going off the website. I think I need to dig out there for myself!
> ...


@john5246, I'm not sure what to make of greencast's data as well. Below are some screenshots, one is from the greencast site and the other is from the Illinois State Water Survey which has locations all across the state. Both are set for the same city and greencast has a temp of 50°F. The ISWS has 47.2°F(2" under bare soil), 45.2°F(4" under bare soil), 42.9°F(4" under sod), and 39.3°F(8" under sod). If I had to guess, is greencast trying to estimate the soil temp of bare soil 2" down? Not too helpful in my situation as I have a lawn on top. I've compared the data from the ISWS to the full sun spots of my yard and they are fairly close. BTW, I encourage anyone from Illinois to check out the site. I'm not sure if you still need to register, but it is free.
https://www.isws.illinois.edu/warm/soil/


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## jingobah (May 6, 2019)

So, I held off on my pre-m I was gonna put down, used my trusty soil thermometer and Greencast is way off so...I'll wait a bit


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## npompei (Sep 8, 2019)

Forsythia is blooming by me in SE PA. Rain late tonight into tomorrow morning, time to throw down my first round of PreM.

Bag says to go 3lb/1,000, 45lb bag would cover 15,000sq.ft. I've got 30,000sq.ft yard so I bought 2 bags. Now my question is, is that 3lbs a max rate? It gives me a MAX per year you can put down, something like 260lbs for PRG but nothing that says monthly coverage. I'm going to aerate and overseed in Sept. so I don't want to put too much down but 90lbs which the bag recommends seems fine to put all down at one time? I don't want to split the app to make sure it falls off before Sept. Am I right on this?!


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## 2strokeracer (Jan 19, 2020)

It was nice and sunny but windy this past weekend. Then on Monday we got 2" rain. Then today we got probably another .25". Chance of snow turning into rain Saturday. I went and got 100# of AS 21-0-0-24 for a whole $32 with tax from my local turf store. Plan on going back for other stuff.

Since I didn't put any N down in the fall, when/how much should I put down in the spring?

I'm looking at getting a PreM also.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

npompei said:


> Forsythia is blooming by me in SE PA. Rain late tonight into tomorrow morning, time to throw down my first round of PreM.
> 
> Bag says to go 3lb/1,000, 45lb bag would cover 15,000sq.ft. I've got 30,000sq.ft yard so I bought 2 bags. Now my question is, is that 3lbs a max rate? It gives me a MAX per year you can put down, something like 260lbs for PRG but nothing that says monthly coverage. I'm going to aerate and overseed in Sept. so I don't want to put too much down but 90lbs which the bag recommends seems fine to put all down at one time? I don't want to split the app to make sure it falls off before Sept. Am I right on this?!


What exactly did you buy?


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## npompei (Sep 8, 2019)

https://thelawncarenut.com/products/prodiamine

@1028mountain went with LCN's Prodiamine. I threw down 2 bags of it the other day. Grass didn't die ha.
Now I want to know when I can start putting Urea down?!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Parts of the south of Kentucky, Missouri and large section of Virginia are entering the late phase of crabgrass prem. Some areas of virginia are in the actual early phase of crabgrass germination. While the tracker calls it Late, I still think it is worth it to apply it if you havent.

The rest of the north folks, we are close. Make sure you have the prem you plan to use at hand and ready to apply. Spring is here.


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## kclyki02 (May 13, 2019)

@g-man Not sure if you are seeing the Forsythia bloom up in Indy, but it's already been out all week here in Columbus. Just too wet to do anything.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The Forsythia I normally track is in the ramp of i70 near work. Since I'm not driving to work I cant see it. I would likely drop prem next weekend. It is just too wet.


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## behemyth (Jun 8, 2019)

@g-man I am also in the north indy area, when do you plan to put down your Pre-Em, and what are you going to use. I noticed the other weekend Lowes/Home Depot didn't have anything for yard care even in yet. I have noticed the lawn care companies out and about as well, I have to imagine their just putting down their weed n feed.

I also have dogs - do you know what I could use that would be safe for them?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I found some granular dithiopyr in the back of the garage, so I will use it gain that space. I also have prodiamine. Either one will be safe after you water it in. Menards should have something.

Most commercial folks (Lawn Pride, TruGreen) are doing Fert + PreM right now. They have a lot of houses to cover, so they tend to go earlier than ideal.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@behemyth I was at Menards getting more paint for the garage. They have the crabgrass preventer on a rebate until tomorrow. It uses dithiopyr. Save big money at Menards.


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## behemyth (Jun 8, 2019)

@g-man Would you use that, or the Scott's stuff at Lowes that doesnt have fertilizer in it?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Yes I would use this. If you can find a product without fertilizer, then go for it (active ingredients: prodiamine, dithiopyr or pendi...).


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## behemyth (Jun 8, 2019)

Cool, thanks. Even though thats controlled release, you think I can put it down, let it get rained on, and then it would be fine for my dogs to go back out in my yard?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Yes


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## behemyth (Jun 8, 2019)

Ok. I'll go get a bag tomorrow and get it down since we have a chance of rain the next three days.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

FYI The deal was until today, 21Mar.


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## TinkerTailorMowerSpy (Feb 20, 2020)

Prodiamine goes down tomorrow.

Should I fertilize now? I have a newly renovated backyard with KBG. I followed the fall nitrogen program and had a bad rust problem. It's got a lot of spots that need to fill in so I'm leaning towards feeding it .5lb N / M in urea form. My other zones I overseeded with PRG, would they benefit from spring nitrogen? I don't have that much yard so I could spoon feed it or apply foliar urea if that would work better?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

For a renovated yard, yes feed it around 0.20lb of N/ksqft weekly (spoon feeding). I renovated the backyard and started to feed it last week. It is still kinda cold, so it barely reacted.


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## Iwantgreen (Mar 14, 2020)

Snowing out here in CT tomorrow when will i be able to "thrower down" lol Allen's voice LCN's Prodiamine its been sitting patiently in my garage just waiting .


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Iwantgreen did you check the gdd link in the first post?


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## Iwantgreen (Mar 14, 2020)

@g-man sorry newbie here gdd?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Iwantgreen In the first post of this thread:



> Use these tools to help guide your decision on when to drop the PreM: http://www.gddtracker.net/?model=7&offset=0&zip=46037


Type your zipcode and it guide you when to apply.


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## Iwantgreen (Mar 14, 2020)

@g-man thnx


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## behemyth (Jun 8, 2019)

@g-man Got a couple bags of the crabgrass from Menards and got it down. I also found out my Scott's Spreader is garbage and I need to get a better one, the plastic wheels don't grab very well and the spread is uneven. Had to do some work to keep it fairly even.

Now I'm going to find me a good spreader, looking at a Chapin spreader online. I have to do about 8.5k of yard.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Check Facebook marketplace. I see good stuff there all the time.

We are getting some lite snow/rain, so perfect timing on the application to water it in. :thumbup:


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## behemyth (Jun 8, 2019)

Yeah, the snow/rain was the reason I rushed out to get it and get it down.


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## behemyth (Jun 8, 2019)

Well, so much for the pre-em I put down a week ago - we got monsoon rains the past couple days, and now I'm debating if I should put it down again or not. I'm pretty sure the rain washed out everything I previously put down...... Grrrrrr.....


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## Iwantgreen (Mar 14, 2020)

I know this weather isn't helping us at all. I was planning on putting it down tomorrow .


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Is it safe to take a KBG plug from a reno area (Fall 2019 reno) to use elsewhere? Would now be the best time to do this? Thanks!


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## IRAFoggydew (Mar 26, 2020)

@g-man Is there a product you recommend for all pests including grubs ticks and fleas? Or do you recommend the grubex and a separate application for all other pests?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@behemyth don't reapply. It is likely it is still there. It was a strong storm but the rate of water was ok. If you reapply you run the risk of causing harm.

I don't recall if you did a split application. Just do the second application in 6 weeks and you will be fine.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Biggylawns it depends on how good roots the reno has and can you keep it irrigated during the summer.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@IRAFoggydew GrubEx is for grubs. For other insects there are other products that depend on the pest type. I like using cyzmic cs for around the house control. Check the Pest folder for more specific products for each pest.


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Thanks @g-man!


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## behemyth (Jun 8, 2019)

Does anyone use Tenacity after their pre-em treatment? Sorry for the stupid questions - I'm learning how to deal with weeds. Right now I have a lot of Clover, and these giant grass looking things that tower over my grass here and there...


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## bosox_5 (Jun 20, 2018)

What pre-m did you use? If it was tenacity, watch out for your yearly maximum. If it was something else, you should be good to spray


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@behemyth you can use tenacity + NIS. Or cheap triclopyr.


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## Iwantgreen (Mar 14, 2020)

I am throwing down prodiamine .038% today and then was thinking of spraying tenacity+speedzone mix .. good idea?


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## ScottW (Sep 16, 2019)

behemyth said:


> Does anyone use Tenacity after their pre-em treatment? Sorry for the stupid questions - I'm learning how to deal with weeds. Right now I have a lot of Clover, and these giant grass looking things that tower over my grass here and there...


Tenacity is great for using as a pre-em specifically at the same time as overseeding.
If you're not overseeding with desirable turf grass, it's possibly not necessary, and it's not inexpensive. Don't think of it as some magic bullet that should be applied whenever you have a problem.
There are better/cheaper/longer lasting pre-em products, and there are better/cheaper/faster selective weed killers.

For the clover just use something containing triclopyr. Be aware that Ortho CCO uses the amine salt formulation of it, so it will be slow to act if the weather is still cool/cold where you are, so be patient. Or pick up an ester formulation.
"Giant grass looking things" is too vague. Need to ID more specifically to determine proper course of action if you want to take an approach that's more surgical than tactically nuking it with glyphosate.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

PSA

Pretty much Missouri, south of Indy, south of Columbus OH, and half of PA; by this weekend you need your prem down.


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## behemyth (Jun 8, 2019)

@ScottW Here is a picture of the grass looking things - is this crabgrass?



Clover problems:



This is only in my backyard - my front yard looks great due to them putting sod down.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It is not crabgrass. We wont see crabgrass until June. The image resolution is pretty bad. Can you hand pull one and take better images. It looks like quackgrass or orchidgrass or annual ryegrass. Also, give the back lawn a mow at 2in to encourage spreading.


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## behemyth (Jun 8, 2019)

Yep, going to mow today. I'd like to get some Milogranite down too if i can find it - my front lawn is a TTTF sod and its greenish, but theres a lot of brown and I'd like to help it out.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I hate to bring bad news, but this 6-10day temp forecast is not great.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

@g-man .. your telling me. I live where it is darkest blue 😫.. Calling for snow here tomorrow..


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I just finished mowing. It is 42F but with the wind I had to get the heavy winter coat. It was so nice last weekend.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Stuofsci02 said:


> @g-man .. your telling me. I live where it is darkest blue 😫.. Calling for snow here tomorrow..


Correction.... Snowing here now


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Stuofsci02 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> > @g-man .. your telling me. I live where it is darkest blue 😫.. Calling for snow here tomorrow..
> ...


Coming down out there now. Is this mid April or November?


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> > Stuofsci02 said:
> ...


I think in our area snow falls in April 86% of the years recorded... it sucks, but is not unexpected


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Stuofsci02 said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> > Stuofsci02 said:
> ...


Yeah I'm just messing. We avg around 4" in April so no big surprise.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

PSA

Watch your soil moisture. The weird temperatures and lack of rain caused me some issues. It is not summer, but make sure your lawn doesn't dry up.



More details in my journal.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

FYI Seedheads are here (Indy). No they are not a weed. Grasses also produce seedheads. It is normal and mowing does take most of them out, but keep a sharp blade.


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## doogie89 (Apr 29, 2019)

g-man said:


> FYI Seedheads are here (Indy). No they are not a weed. Grasses also produce seedheads. It is normal and mowing does take most of them out, but keep a sharp blade.


@g-man Have you fired up your sprinklers yet in Indy? I'm up in southeast lower Michigan and it looks like we will be up in the upper 50's and low 60's going forward. I haven't put down any fertilizer yet (did a fall blitz this time), so I am still a few weeks out before I put down something. I did seed a couple spots to repair dog urine damage, so to make the watering more easy and consistent, I want to turn on my irrigation.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Before the questions pop up, mushrooms in the lawn are normally fine. If it is in a curve pattern it might be fairy ring.

Just mow them and it will be fine.


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