# Calling out all Seed experts! looking for 2019 Seed selection pointers



## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Here's my background:

Total square footage of my lawn is 30k sq ft.
Front lawn: 15.5k sq ft
Back lawn: 12k sq ft
Side areas: +/- 2500 sq ft

Live in Massachusetts

Typical cutting height: 2.5" in spring, 3" summer, 2.5" fall

Tough winters/humid summers

Front and backyard are irrigated, 12 zones total.

What I'm looking for:

Color color color! DARK green TTTF and KBG that is fungus resistant especially brown patch, red thread, rust and leave spot. I totally understand that grass can't resist everything but I'm looking for the fungus resistant possible. The last couple of years, the northeast seasons have been total out of character. Dark green color is very important to me. I'll go into further explanation in the next couple of paragraphs.

Backyard: 
Late summer/ Fall of 2019, I will be doing a partial renovation due to the unsightly Poa trivialis and bentgrass. It's going to get killed off by multiple glypho applications, scalped, leveled and seeded. That species of grass is the absolute worst! It's taken up a 1/3 of my backyard and it's mostly in areas that are relatively shaded, especially during the seasons where sunlight is shortened. During the summer, it will receive 4-6 hours of direct sunlight. Because of this shaded area, the turf and soil don't dry out as quickly and stays wet, especially during the rainy months. It's stays wet and doesn't drain all that well. In this area I'm looking for a shade tolerant/shade thriving tttf and KBG. I've read that Mazama, Bewitched and midnight have performed well for shade testing. I'm also looking at some of the darker tall fescue like valkyrie, regenerate,millennium, rowdy. I love the dark color that tall fescue puts out and *** as well.

My biggest objective for this part of the lawn for me is: 
1. Dark Green color characteristics 
2. Aggressive cultivator that spreads and tillers(kbg) 
3. Great Disease resistant 
4. Shade tolerant

I know that these areas are prime growing characteristics for POA but I can't stand the sight of it.

For the rest of my backyard, I'm going to aerate and overseed. The rest of my lawn is in sunnier areas that don't present a POA issue. I would like to stick with the TTTF and KBG. The cultivators May be different since the environment may be different. What would you suggest for cultivators for this? I'm also looking for the same seed characteristics, except that it will get more sun.

Front Yard:

The front yard:

Was slit seeded 9/2018 with a 
70% PRG/30% KBG Lesco mix. The existing grass is a mix of PRG and tall fescue. I'm looking forward to see how this does in the spring.

The front lawn gets full blown sun, no shade. I have areas that been hit with POA T and bentgrass so I will he spot killing these areas to eradicate it.

Im still on the fence with overseeding entire front lawn again this late summer/fall again with your cultivators. What would you suggest for spit seeding the areas and overseeding for this?

My objective for the front lawn is:
1. Dark green turf color 
2. Drought/Heat resistant
3. Disease resistant

I know that this is long winded thread but I just wanted to get out as much info as possible. Any advice would be
Much appreciated. I know that no seed is perfect for every situation. I'm trying to maximize my chances.

Thank you,
Scag


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

If you haven't browsed the NTEP reports, that would be an excellent place to start. You can evaluate each cultivar in terms of your criteria (color, disease, shade, stress tolerance).
Another avenue is to browse the cool season journals to see which cultivars folks are using and how they look. I get feedback on color this way. 
You may want to take a look at FORT's pics, as he used some of the cultivars you mention https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6796&p=118445&hilit=traverse#p118445
Same with drenglish https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6433&p=110348&hilit=traverse#p110348

I like this post by j4c11 as a starting point https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=657&p=12213&hilit=rhambler#p12213

I would recommend some of the TTTF I've used (e.g., Cochise IV, LS1200), but at this point, they are relatively old cultivars from what I understand (there is talk, for example, about a new Cochise being released soon).

You may want to look into the newest TTTF cultivars such as Raptor 3 and Leonardo. I'm thinking especially in terms of your cutting height, which would be lower than the typical TTTF lawn because of your bluegrass mix. Some of these newer cultivars supposedly handle a lower HOC better than older ones.

Finally, it is very subjective and I imagine that there is a lot of room for argument, but I don't think you will find a better green than what you get in Midnight.

Although there are surely differences among cultivars, cultural practices and supplements affect color. Getting that color and health in your grass is easier when you are on a good fertility plan and are using smart watering practices -- and iron helps too :mrgreen: (but I'm sure you already know this)


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

I had really good luck with the 5 way Bluegrass blend that Miller seeds sells, you gotta call on the phone to order but its a good mix for the price. Bewitched, Blueberry, Midnight and a few others. Obviously if your looking for disease resistance you should get a good mix as no variety is really going to be 100% resistant to disease, but some are more resistant than others so having a mix helps your chances.

You can see the color in my signature photo. Granted this is after applying some iron but its still very dark green, and what amazes me most this being my first winter with it is that short of some area's that didnt grow in well yet most of it is still this dark green color as we head into January.


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## iowa jim (Jan 22, 2018)

Whatever you buy make sure it is gold tagged, with your poa problems you will need all the help you can get.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> I had really good luck with the 5 way Bluegrass blend that Miller seeds sells, you gotta call on the phone to order but its a good mix for the price. Bewitched, Blueberry, Midnight and a few others. Obviously if your looking for disease resistance you should get a good mix as no variety is really going to be 100% resistant to disease, but some are more resistant than others so having a mix helps your chances.
> 
> You can see the color in my signature photo. Granted this is after applying some iron but its still very dark green, and what amazes me most this being my first winter with it is that short of some area's that didnt grow in well yet most of it is still this dark green color as we head into January.


I've looked up the millers website to see if I could open their PDF's to view their cultivators. None of them are working


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

I know we've discussed this to some extent on another thread, so I'll try to keep it short. I ordered a 50/50 blend of Mazama and Beyond from SSS last night, which I will add to the Bewitched I have on hand (probably 33.33% or so). I figure this would cover sun/shade/drought/color and poa/disease resistance to some extent.

I also mentioned previously that I like Spyder LS at work. I think it has beautiful color, leaf texture, traffic tolerance and drought resistance. I use it with kbg on irrigated formal panels and as a straight 100% TTTF cultivar on non-irrigated areas.

Here is a photo of Spyder LS taken on 11/9 I sent to my seed supplier, because I thought it looked so good despite the lack of care on the shady, north side of a building with almost direct salt spray from the bay (~300' away). It was barely irrigated or fertilized during establishment and has received nothing since. The edge near the parking lot gets blasted by full sun and vehicle/foot traffic. The line from the corner of the building is feral cat traffic from one colony to another. Also, as much as I try to enforce my 3" rule, my guys scalp it on the lowest setting on the push mower. They hadn't cut it in about 5-6 weeks, when this photo was taken.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Chris LI said:


> I know we've discussed this to some extent on another thread, so I'll try to keep it short. I ordered a 50/50 blend of Mazama and Beyond from SSS last night, which I will add to the Bewitched I have on hand (probably 33.33% or so). I figure this would cover sun/shade/drought/color and poa/disease resistance to some extent.
> 
> I also mentioned previously that I like Spyder LS at work. I think it has beautiful color, leaf texture, traffic tolerance and drought resistance. I use it with kbg on irrigated formal panels and as a straight 100% TTTF cultivar on non-irrigated areas.
> 
> Here is a photo of Spyder LS taken on 11/9 I sent to my seed supplier, because I thought it looked so good despite the lack of care on the shady, north side of a building with almost direct salt spray from the bay (~300' away). It was barely irrigated or fertilized during establishment and has received nothing since. The edge near the parking lot gets blasted by full sun and vehicle/foot traffic. The line from the corner of the building is feral cat traffic from one colony to another. Also, as much as I try to enforce my 3" rule, my guys scalp it on the lowest setting on the push mower. They hadn't cut it in about 5-6 weeks, when this photo was taken.


I know it's a small sample size of turf but that looks great. Thick and green. The fact that it's been neglected(not a bad thing) is a sign. The cultivator is a TTTF?

?


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Yes. Spyder LS is TTTF. The LS stands for lateral spread. It supposedly spreads, but I don't believe the hooplah about rhizomatous tall fescue (RTF) varieties. The Spyder seems to tiller nicely, however. I have experience growing acres of Turf Saver RTF from Barenbrug and it did not spread for two years...but that's another story.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

I see that you are ordering Mazama. Have you had previous experience with it?


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

I may have narrowed down my selection 
Shade:
KBG:
Mazama KBG

Tall Fescue:SSS FESCUE SHADE MIX
Rowdy 
Valkyrie LS
Titanum 2LS
GTO

Sunny areas:
KBG:SSS KBG blend 
Midnight
Bewitched
Bluenote

Fescue: SSS fescue Mix 
Regenerate 
Amity 
4th millennium 
Raptor III

What do you guys think?


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

No. This will be my first time. However, it seems to rate highly and I found some very informative threads on TLF about Mazama. One of them is titled, "Koven's lawn" and has some good videos. Koven Carlson has some experimental plots on his front lawn with Mazama and Bewitched.


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Look to all be top rated cultivars. Maybe consider replacing Blue Note with Mazama as your America type in the sunny areas, too? You mentioned dark green several times, which I think more accurately describes Mazama. Not to knock Blue Note. I considered it too. It's stats look impressive, but color is not as dark as the other bluegrasses you selected.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

gm560 said:


> Look to all be top rated cultivars. Maybe consider replacing Blue Note with Mazama as your America type in the sunny areas, too? You mentioned dark green several times, which I think more accurately describes Mazama. Not to knock Blue Note. I considered it too. It's stats look impressive, but color is not as dark as the other bluegrasses you selected.


Thanks for your input gm560.
I've been reading a great deal on Mazama from everyone on this site especially it's shade tolerance. You mentioned it as a sunny cultivator. Does it have a track record for doing well in the sun?


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> gm560 said:
> 
> 
> > Look to all be top rated cultivars. Maybe consider replacing Blue Note with Mazama as your America type in the sunny areas, too? You mentioned dark green several times, which I think more accurately describes Mazama. Not to knock Blue Note. I considered it too. It's stats look impressive, but color is not as dark as the other bluegrasses you selected.
> ...


KBG in general does great in sun. Not so much in shade. Mazama and Bewitched appear to be the most _tolerant_, but don't confuse that to mean they are shade only. I think any KBG cultivar will perform its best in sunny conditions. Check this out:


Carbondale, IL is the shade test. You can see Mazama is tops:



But it holds its own just fine in all the other sunny tests, too.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Would prosperity be a better alternative to blue note for that mix? I've been reading up and it seems that it has great heat tolerance and very dark green characteristics.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> FuzzeWuzze said:
> 
> 
> > I had really good luck with the 5 way Bluegrass blend that Miller seeds sells, you gotta call on the phone to order but its a good mix for the price. Bewitched, Blueberry, Midnight and a few others. Obviously if your looking for disease resistance you should get a good mix as no variety is really going to be 100% resistant to disease, but some are more resistant than others so having a mix helps your chances.
> ...


Really? I just tried and it worked fine for several links.
http://www.millerseed.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018-P.-Bluegrass.pdf

5 Way 20% split of Bewitched, Midnight, Blueberry, Blackjack, and Bonaire.

Not only that but their prices were good. 21 bucks + tax for 5 lbs before shipping.


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## silvercymbal (Sep 17, 2018)

Hi Scagfreedom48z+

Here in Mass also  After many years of trying I will never purchase seed at box stores, it felt like I was throwing grains of rice down after the results I got this year.

I know you have seen my videos but just to share some detail on what I picked:

*Irrigated Lawn Area:*
Lesco 50/50 KBG

*Non-Irrigated/No Hand Watering Area*
Lesco Teammates PLus

I apologize that I don't have the labels handy but I have been told that Lesco has some of their own cultivars grown which could be true or not, not certain you could get proof either way. The seed was amazing in both areas.

I will have to see if I can find a picture of it but some of it even grew (quite well) on a pile of wood chips.

I have no connection with Lesco but their staff in the stores are the way service USED to be everywhere and they really know their stuff, at least the 4 stores I have used. I am thrilled with the results.

Stop by one of their stores, they are all over the US and plenty in Mass and RI. You will likely be surprised by how helpful they can be too.

Take this with the excellent advice from the LCF and I am sure you will find something that works well for you.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Scagfreedom48z+ said:
> 
> 
> > FuzzeWuzze said:
> ...


I was able to open it, thanks for sending the attachment. The only thing that I'm a little concerned about is the weed crop and other crop %'s in Miller's specs, especially with the seed size of KBG. Did you experience any weeds?


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

gm560 said:


> Look to all be top rated cultivars. Maybe consider replacing Blue Note with Mazama as your America type in the sunny areas, too? You mentioned dark green several times, which I think more accurately describes Mazama. Not to knock Blue Note. I considered it too. It's stats look impressive, but color is not as dark as the other bluegrasses you selected.


This was the reason I chose to go with Mazama, Beyond and Bewitched. I didn't see Beyond listed in the newest NTEP study (2014), but it performed similarly to Blue Note in the previous study and has a darker genetic color. Even though it appears a little lower on the list in some places, it falls within the LSD of Blue Note. It's listed to have the same good resistance to Poa as BN, with 15%.

https://www.ntep.org/ntep/reports/kb11/kb11_17-10f/kb11_17-10f.htm


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

silvercymbal said:


> Hi Scagfreedom48z+
> 
> Here in Mass also  After many years of trying I will never purchase seed at box stores, it felt like I was throwing grains of rice down after the results I got this year.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the info. I have a few site ones near me and I've purchased a few things from them. Thanks for the info. I've also seen your video of your lawn renovation and the results with no irrigation was nothing short of impressive. I'm curious to see how it performs this year!


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Chris LI said:


> gm560 said:
> 
> 
> > Look to all be top rated cultivars. Maybe consider replacing Blue Note with Mazama as your America type in the sunny areas, too? You mentioned dark green several times, which I think more accurately describes Mazama. Not to knock Blue Note. I considered it too. It's stats look impressive, but color is not as dark as the other bluegrasses you selected.
> ...


Thanks Chris. Your information is making my decision much easier than I thought. I did red up on beyond and it is known to crowd out Poa A which I have. I'm going to see if SSS can swap out Bluenote for beyond.

I've also read in a few different threads that blue note does have a much lighter color characteristic to a point that people that seeded with it, hated the color.


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> Would prosperity be a better alternative to blue note for that mix? I've been reading up and it seems that it has great heat tolerance and very dark green characteristics.


I am sure prosperity would be excellent. I think you are probably overthinking it a bit, which I understand since I do the same thing. Any of these seed selections, with good maintenance, is virtually guaranteed to kick the pants off anyone around you.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

gm560 said:


> Scagfreedom48z+ said:
> 
> 
> > Would prosperity be a better alternative to blue note for that mix? I've been reading up and it seems that it has great heat tolerance and very dark green characteristics.
> ...


Hahaha. Yes I do overthink and dissect everything. It's maddening but I'm heavy on product reviews and people's experiences. That's pretty much with everything I purchase.


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

@Scagfreedom48z+ i know someone else mentioned @NoslracNevok lawn journal. Check it out for mazama if you haven't already. Here's the link
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5204&start=100


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Thanks for the link! The color looking great. DARK! I noticed the issues he had with the fungus, would it be recommended to put strobe with prop down at seed down, along with tenacity for weed control or is that too much for the seed to handle?


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> Thanks for the link! The color looking great. DARK! I noticed the issues he had with the fungus, would it be recommended to put strobe with prop down at seed down, along with tenacity for weed control or is that too much for the seed to handle?


From the Quali-Pro Propiconazole label:

As an additional benefit, Quali-Pro Propiconazole 14.3 will improve the establishment rate when it is applied to cool-season grass seedlings or sod.

New Seedlings: Apply 1 fl. oz. per 1000 sq. ft. at the 2- to 3-leaf stage of growth for faster root development and top growth.


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Strobe lists it as fine on new grass, but makes no claims of the Propiconazole's added benefits. Not sure if the Azoxy is detrimental.


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## NoslracNevok (Jun 12, 2018)

@Chris LI Glad you've found some use to my documentation (TLF user name is my name backwards). I changed title to "Kove's Lawn (Saint Louis, MO)". Feeble attempt to have my daily activity indexed less on search engines.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5204&start=100

@Scagfreedom48z+ My Mazama plot is doing fantastic in full sun since it emerged early September 2018.It's in fact still quite green. I used a mix of Mazama/Bewitched behind my house, which is ~50% shade. This area is doing pretty good considering I'm not giving it nearly the attention as my front hell strip test plots.

I did have a fungus problem in the first , killing off ~20-40%. However this was during a weather patterns ideal for fungus, so you may not need fungicides. I ended up spot seeding the dead spots twice.

Without Mazama and Bewitched next to each other in my hell strip, I'd never be able to tell them apart. Mazama is slightly darker than Bewitched. With confidence I'd recommend both, they're doing exceptionally well for me. Granted, I'm babying them to an extreme. I'm going to l reno the remainder of my front lawn with Mazama this fall.

@Budstl Thanks for looking out bro. Love discuss&sharing the information, normal people just don't understand lawn bros.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

NoslracNevok said:


> @Chris LI Glad you've found some use to my documentation (TLF user name is my name backwards). I changed title to "Kove's Lawn (Saint Louis, MO)". Feeble attempt to have my daily activity indexed less on search engines.
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5204&start=100
> 
> ...


I appreciate your progress update. The color and spread from your Reno is certainly impressive and I'm confident about using the bewitched and Mazama Combo that I was entertaining.

I don't mind putting down fungicides as a precaution. In my area this past summer, it was a constant battle with fungus. When it hit, it hit hard. A lot of my neighbors didn't treat or pay to get it treated because of the cost. Bouts of brown patch literally wiped out well kept lawns and were never able to recover. They actually made it worse. They watered their lawns even more, thinking that the grass was dying because of lack of water. Landscapers we're charging 1k for 30k sq ft to apply heritage for 1 application. Yeah not thank you. So putting it down is just an extra peace of mind in my opinion. I've got strobe, eagle and propricanizol on hand.

My question is when would be an ideal time to put down fungicide as a preventative during a Reno?

I'm looking for a similar approach as putting down tenacity at seed down for weed/crabgrass kill off.

I'm also updating my potential cultivators:

Custom Mix: Sun and Shade KBG:

Mazama: 30%- insane color
Bewitched: 30%- insane color 
Midnight or Bluebank 30%(improved shade tolerance to midnight)
Award: 10% to outcompete the POA A

Tall Fescue:SSS FESCUE SHADE MIX
Rowdy 
Valkyrie LS
Titanum 2LS
GTO

Fescue: SSS fescue Mix 
Regenerate 
Amity 
4th millennium 
Raptor III

I would combining the KBG with both types of fescues (sun and shade) 
I'm open to more opinions! Please feel free to add


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## MassHole (Jun 27, 2018)

Located in Mass. I have been using Midnight in full sun, mowed at 4.5". Had issues with some brown out from the hot summer months, so I did a 80% GCI TTTF with 20% Midnight by weight this past fall. Hoping the Midnight fills in any bare spots, and the TTTF stays dark all summer with the deeper roots.

I'm intrigued with Regenerate and 4th Millenium if I'm not happy with the results this summer.

Western Mass here.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

MassHole said:


> Located in Mass. I have been using Midnight in full sun, mowed at 4.5". Had issues with some brown out from the hot summer months, so I did a 80% GCI TTTF with 20% Midnight by weight this past fall. Hoping the Midnight fills in any bare spots, and the TTTF stays dark all summer with the deeper roots.
> 
> I'm intrigued with Regenerate and 4th Millenium if I'm not happy with the results this summer.
> 
> Western Mass here.


Do you have irrigation in the full sun areas where you had brown out?

How was your results/germination with the GCI Turf TTTF grass seed this fall? 
I'm curious to see if you have pics?


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> My question is when would be an ideal time to put down fungicide as a preventative during a Reno?
> 
> I'm looking for a similar approach as putting down tenacity at seed down for weed/crabgrass kill off.


Sames as Tenacity, right at seed down. And every 2 weeks thereafter until weather is no longer conducive to fungus.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

All great information, thank you!


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## MassHole (Jun 27, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> MassHole said:
> 
> 
> > Located in Mass. I have been using Midnight in full sun, mowed at 4.5". Had issues with some brown out from the hot summer months, so I did a 80% GCI TTTF with 20% Midnight by weight this past fall. Hoping the Midnight fills in any bare spots, and the TTTF stays dark all summer with the deeper roots.
> ...


I have irrigation but we have a water ban.

I posted a thread on the LCN Facebook group. Let me try and post some here.

I had excellent germination, despite all the wash out rains we got.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

MassHole said:


> I have irrigation but we have a water ban.


Just curious...how is your water ban structured?


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

gm560 said:


> Scagfreedom48z+ said:
> 
> 
> > Would prosperity be a better alternative to blue note for that mix? I've been reading up and it seems that it has great heat tolerance and very dark green characteristics.
> ...


 :nod: overthinking. these are not magic beans. way too many other variables involved. I would start with a soil test. Pick a high quality ntep seed for your area. Remember the NTEP ratings are subject to statistical significance. The #1, #10, etc. differences are typically statistically insignificant. Specific cultivars are also hard to find unless Drew carries them and you will pay $$$ for that indulgence. I totally get the obsession but don't waste too much time on this! Good luck!!! I did a vid on this that might help:


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## MassHole (Jun 27, 2018)

Chris LI said:


> MassHole said:
> 
> 
> > I have irrigation but we have a water ban.
> ...


We are allowed to water M, W, F, before 9am, after 5pm. I have to water 15K sq ft, so trying to get it done in the morning and not grow fungus and still cool down the hot front lawn has been challenging... Or I'm doing it wrong...


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## silvercymbal (Sep 17, 2018)

Best user name! You have to live here in Mass to appreciate it


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

MassHole said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> > MassHole said:
> ...


That sounds like a real challenge. You may have to wait until the dew sets in after dark and start before midnight and go until a bit after sunrise at max time per zone to water deeply. I would suggest starting with M & F, and add W in when the heat of summer hits. You may be able to get the needed 1" per week down. What have your results been so far with the ban?

I would only suggest syringing at: 5:01 pm, if your turf is in extreme heat stress, and you can make sure the leaf blades dry before sunset.


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## MassHole (Jun 27, 2018)

Chris LI said:


> MassHole said:
> 
> 
> > Chris LI said:
> ...


I've been decent, but some brown spots in the heat of the summer on the full sun front. Back looks great. This past summer was tough with fungus between the very high rains we got in Mass.

Having a wifi controller helps, but staggering between mowing, letting the kids have a dry yard to play in, and using the restrictions make it challenging in August.


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## MassHole (Jun 27, 2018)

silvercymbal said:


> Best user name! You have to live here in Mass to appreciate it


 :lol:


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