# Compact and Subcompact Tractors



## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Let's talk about compact and subcompact tractors for lawn projects. I know @MrMeaner has some experience with the John Deere 1 Series and @SWB has a 2 Series, but I'm sure there are others.

There are a lot of projects I could use one for as I shape our 3.75 acre lot into a new lawn, but there are a lot of options to consider.

The little 1025R would be great for a lot of stuff, and I think it would tread the lightest on a lawn, but lift capacity is a concern. I think I would get a lot of use out of a set of forks to be able to move palletized stuff when the need arises, so the increased lift capacity (~1,100 lbs) of the 2 Series or 3 Series compact models is attractive.

Everything I've mentioned above is Deere, but feel free to inject discussion about features or pros/cons of other brands in these size categories as well.


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## Colinwjholding (Apr 6, 2020)

We have 5 acres and use just a kubota bx23.

We have 2.5 acres of field we cut with a flail mower.

It does lack lifting capacity for sure. But its surprising what it can lift using our bucket mounted forks.

The weight is great if you are doing grass related activities. I would also suggest a turf style tire over a traditional farm style tire.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy .......... !!!

:lol:

I used to take the Deere's (and the 'bota's) apart and put 'em together again back in the 2000's.

The work to be done determines the size of the tractor. Better off renting bigger equipment for specialty/infrequent tasks.

Between the major manufacturers, they each have specific models that are outstanding in their class. Makes it harder to pick for sure! This is especially true in what we'd call the "small frame" compacts. ie: Deere 2 or Kubota B/LX (not BX) series.

Right now, for sub-compacts, I'd get the 1025r, end of discussion. :mrgreen: Maybe the 2025R (Not considered a SCUT tho) for the 3pt lift height, and bigger tires on turf. The 2025 is essentially a 1025R with a beefier rear axle and bigger tires.

All compacts are going to be much stronger on the 3pt vs the loader. If you don't need to stack pallets on racks, a 3pt pallet fork, even on a sub-compact, will muscle around quite a bit. Deere has started adding the MSL option to ALL of their loaders, even the 120R. If pallet handling and lift capacity are high on your priority lists, this is a must-have.

https://youtu.be/XNWGBvunIqo

What were you looking at in the 3 series? A 3E or a 3R? They are pretty much in separate classes!


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

As far as tire selection goes, the bigger machines can be gentler on turf. Especially carrying weight on the loader. Tire options like Galaxy floatation turf tires make it possible to drive large frame and even utility tractors on golf greens without damage. I really like some of the new radial and R14 options available too.


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## bp2878 (Feb 13, 2019)

I rented a 1025R last year to grade my lawn. I had so much fun on it I almost went and bought one. Only thing that stopped me was the fact that I had absolutely no need for it on my 1/2 acre lawn. One of my few moments of clarity. It is an awesome little machine and would be a must have for me if I had a few more acres. I would suggest at least something on the back to balance the small tractor when the bucket is full. Scrape blade or something. Mine had the backhoe attachment to balance it but that's a fairly expensive weight.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I was hoping you would find this thread @MasterMech :thumbup:

A front loader would obviously be a game changer for moving a lot of sand, mulch, etc. on a large lawn. I think it would also work well for some light grading work/spot leveling. Renting one when I needed it would probably be cheaper, but owning one would allow me to work at my own pace vs. racing the rental return clock.

Then there are options like 3-point hitch sprayers and spreaders. I think the 2032R and 2038R come with electronic cruise control, so that would be a nice option to have paired with a hydrostatic transmission.

At first I didn't think PTO horsepower would matter much because I probably wouldn't ever find myself brush hogging or even mowing with it, but I definitely wouldn't want to rule out the possibility of picking up a PTO verticutter or aerator attachment someday. :mrgreen:


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## Uk0724 (May 1, 2019)

Ware said:


> I was hoping you would find this thread @MasterMech :thumbup:
> 
> A front loader would obviously be a game changer for moving a lot of sand, mulch, etc. on a large lawn. I think it would also work well for some light grading work/spot leveling. Renting one when I needed it would probably be cheaper, but owning one would allow me to work at my own pace vs. racing the rental return clock.
> 
> ...


Hey Ware. Definitely get a loader, load the rear tires and get as much PTO hp as you can afford that is still in the lightweight series tractors. I had a 33 HP Kubota B series with loaded R4 industrial tires and FEL. It was perfect for my yard. Never caused an issue. I have a 60 gal 3 pt sprayer, 6 foot finish mower and many others. I miss it so much. I upgraded to a 60 Hp with cab but it is too big and heavy for my yard. I'm hurting. I would recommend avoiding tHe models with a plastic hood. You WILL drop stuff out of the loader onto it.

I have a pto verticutter and it wants 35 pto HP. I have cruise control on my HST and never once touch it.

As for JD vs Kubota, thats an endless argument. I love my Kubotas but after having owned JD turf equipment, they have some mighty fine equipment. It wouldnt take much for me to convert orange to green. Just need a salesman to talk to LOL!

Edit to add: my upgrade to a 60 hp had nothing to do with lawn work. It was for a hunting farm. This will be the second summer of no lightweight tractor to work the yard. Last year i slowly maneuvered the big tractor around, but it wasnt fun. My first tractor was a Kubota B3300 SU. That thing was absolutely perfect for my lawn needs.


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## Deltahedge (Apr 1, 2020)

I would love to hear what y'all think about a Ventrac 4500. That's the one that I've had my eye on. Is it even in the same league as the JD or Kabota? I have to mow a ditch in front of my house, and supposedly the Ventrac is really good mowing across hills. You can get a 3pt on the back and bucket on the front, and I'm interested in their power rake attachment as well. They also have 5 or 6 different mower attachments, including a reel mowing attachment.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Deltahedge said:


> I would love to hear what y'all think about a Ventrac 4500. That's the one that I've had my eye on. Is it even in the same league as the JD or Kabota? I have to mow a ditch in front of my house, and supposedly the Ventrac is really good mowing across hills. You can get a 3pt on the back and bucket on the front, and I'm interested in their power rake attachment as well. They also have 5 or 6 different mower attachments, including a reel mowing attachment.


Our city purchased a Ventrac 4500z for slope mowing a couple years ago. Here is some footage I captured when they brought one out to demo. It is pretty impressive. They have a super low center of gravity.


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

As I mentioned to you already the 1 series is a very capable tractor. Properly ballasted it will move some serious weight.
I had my 2305 which was a predecessor to the 1026r for 12 years and used it for everything. My biggest complaint was the limited height 3PH which my 2032r doesn't have. My 2305 in action:













The 2032r is a larger frame tractor just above the 2025r. It has a lot of upgrades over the 2305 in that it is liquid cooled, better hydraulics and larger tires which allows for cat 1 implements to be raised much higher. If you look at the 2032r look at the 2038r as well. It has the turbo-diesel. I had 2.5" spacers added to the rear wheels for a more stable stance. The auto-throttle is nice. I never use the cruise control. I had the rear tires filled when I purchased but then had them emptied as I felt it might be too heavy on the lawn. The verdict is still out on that. 
Implements I use the most are a carry-all, 60 gallon sprayer, Turf-aire aerator, Landscape rake with gauge wheels, ballast box and pallet forks. @MasterMech mentioned pallet forks for the 3ph and you will have more lift there but mine are on the FEL and are much more versatile for me there especially loading / unloading materials from the trailer. **Edit: I left out the loader bucket. They have a self leveling one now that looks really nice.







Which ever tractor you decide on I think you'll be surprised how many uses you will find for it. I use mine almost every day. Also, I think you'll find that with either tractor you will run out of traction before you run out of power.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

@SWB Nice!

There are levels to this game... 

Nice tractor and property....Impressive! :nod: :thumbup:


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

ENC_Lawn said:


> @SWB Nice!
> 
> There are levels to this game...
> 
> Nice tractor and property....Impressive! :nod: :thumbup:


Thanks! We are kind of in our own little world up here surrounded by farm land. We really enjoy it.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

@SWB thank you for sharing those photos - super helpful! :thumbsup:


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

re: Ballast -- I would think twice before loading tires on a machine that's primary job would be working on or over fine turf. For a sub-compact like the 1025r, that is not mowing regularly, it probably is a good idea as the little machines need all the ballast they can get. When you get into the 2 series and up, you have a lot more options with wheel weights, and more lift capacity on the 3pt. There's a lot to be said for being able to add or shed weight at will. Ballast Boxes and suitcase weights let you ballast the machine to the task without being stuck with extra weight when you don't need it. Suitcases also allow you to park the loader and run heavy rear attachments (like a reciprocating aerator) without the extra length and weight of the loader on. Tire ballast is recommended so universally because in many cases, it's a no-brainer. Low center of gravity, traction, and it's relatively cheap per lb. However, even if your rears are loaded, you NEED 3 pt ballast with a loader. Tire/wheel ballast does nothing to counter-balance the load on the front axle. A heavily loaded front axle not only stresses and wears the front pivot and wheel bearings, but the tires will tear up or rut the turf far worse than a machine carrying significant ballast out back.

re: Loader capacity -- Keep in mind that a small machine may not lift 1000lbs to full height, but to 2-3' is no problem. Many loaders now have a published spec on lift to xx height. Unrelated, Bucket breakout force is much more important than you might think too. I see Deere is still using the silicon nitirde coating on their cylinder rams too. :thumbup:

re: cruise control on a hydrostatic machine. -- it's useful for mowing very large areas or slow work like tilling but electronic control inputs and improved ergos have pretty much eliminated most of the need for it on compact machines. For spraying, which I'm sure is where your head's at, I'm not sure a golf super would call it precise enough, but I sure would try it. :lol: I'd be looking for a way to rig an output to a spray computer and vary my nozzle pressure with the tractor speed.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

MasterMech said:


> ...Deere has started adding the MSL option to ALL of their loaders, even the 120R. If pallet handling and lift capacity are high on your priority lists, this is a must-have.


TTWT had mixed results with the MSL loader on his 1025R - great for pallet handling, but apparently the geometry has some curl limitations and the increased lift capacity that JD brags about wasn't there in his tests:

https://youtu.be/K5EIGgLrCNI






On the other hand, the 220R MSL loader lifted significantly more than the NSL loader on the same 2 Series tractor:

https://youtu.be/Cuz80jbxcTg​


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

@Ware I'll check out TTWT's vids. When I was in this game, only the 4000 series was available with a MSL option on the loader (400CX loader) and there was a noticeable difference in lift capacity and operability with the pallet forks on.


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## Uk0724 (May 1, 2019)

i think for 3.75 acres any JD 1 , 2 or 3 series tractor will do just fine. Same with a Kubota Bx, B or L.

Doesnt JD use an imatch bucket mount? I know Kubota is quick attach. Same with quick hitches. Doesnt make a difference starting out but my forks / grapple are quick attach, therefore I'm married to Kubota. Something to consider @Ware

@SWB I'm really liking those tires on the JD. Did you special order those or were they an option at the dealer?


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Uk0724 said:


> i think for 3.75 acres any JD 1 , 2 or 3 series tractor will do just fine. Same with a Kubota Bx, B or L.
> 
> Doesnt JD use an imatch bucket mount? I know Kubota is quick attach. Same with quick hitches. Doesnt make a difference starting out but my forks / grapple are quick attach, therefore I'm married to Kubota. Something to consider @Ware
> 
> @SWB I'm really liking those tires on the JD. Did you special order those or were they an option at the dealer?


Deere can be setup with either their proprietary quick attach or a skid steer style like your Kubota. The SSQA does induce a little bit of a weight penalty.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Ware said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> > ...Deere has started adding the MSL option to ALL of their loaders, even the 120R. If pallet handling and lift capacity are high on your priority lists, this is a must-have.
> ...



It's a bit strange that the only advantage of the MSL loader on the 120R is the actual self-leveling ability. Although I'd consider that significant still unless you rarely do pallet work with the machine. As you saw in the 220R vid, normally an MSL comes with a measurable lift advantage as well. The curl issue seems to be less on the 220R as well. About that, I'm not sure if I'd trade the self-level for the ability to dump rocks on the hood but I fully understand how not having the ability to "settle" a bucket of material at mid height might feel awkward if you have not used a MSL before.

If the 1 series is where you want to be, maybe that extra 2" of lift height (more important on a SCUT) and full bucket curl could outweigh the MSL. Not to mention saving a few bucks, which is something I caution against when buying tractors.... :lol: From the 220R on up however, I think I'd still pick the MSL over the NSL every time.​


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

Uk0724 said:


> i think for 3.75 acres any JD 1 , 2 or 3 series tractor will do just fine. Same with a Kubota Bx, B or L.
> 
> Doesnt JD use an imatch bucket mount? I know Kubota is quick attach. Same with quick hitches. Doesnt make a difference starting out but my forks / grapple are quick attach, therefore I'm married to Kubota. Something to consider @Ware
> 
> @SWB I'm really liking those tires on the JD. Did you special order those or were they an option at the dealer?


I ordered them with the tractor. Apparently those tires were in short supply at the time and I was told it would be 5-6 months before my tractor came in. I was good to wait because I still had my old 2305. It only took about 2.5 months for it to come in. They are the Galaxy R3 radials.


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

Just a comment on the lift height....I rarely run with my bucket or forks more than 2' - 3' from the ground especially when its loaded. If you're planning on using it like a front end loader it better be properly ballasted or you'll quickly learn a lesson in gravity. :lol:


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

I absolutely love my 1025R....It handled everything that I put it through. I borrowed a Kubota BX from an employee to do a leveling job and was hooked. I had a better buying experience at the Deere dealership..the Kubota dealer didn't even want to come out and talk with me to sell a tractor. The local Deere dealership had one 1025r with turf tires so that's what I ended up with.

I ended up getting the 1025r with Imatch quick attach and Loader, 4ft box blade, 42" pallet forks, Heavy Hitch weight bracket, 8-42# suitcase weights and a carry all frame for the three pt hitch. They had 0% interest financing so I put about half down and payment is only $110 a month. I think I have around $20k invested in everything all together. Your obviously not going to be able to lift one yard sand bags but the loader will make quick work of 15-20 tons of sand. I recently moved from my one acre property out in the county to a house in town with a much smaller yard. I really don't need the tractor any longer but at this point but I think I am just going to keep it because its so handy for everything....lol Really looking forward to sand leveling my new yard.


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

@MrMeaner Dealers are funny. When I bought my 2305 in '09 the dealership was an independent and my salesman was bend over backwards nice. It was an enjoyable experience. By the time I went back last year to trade the dealership had been bought out by a national chain. Completely different experience. They had no inventory and didn't seem to care whether I bought something or not. I was fortunate that after having my 2305 for several years I knew exactly what I wanted and really just needed them to get the new tractor for me.
Like you I found that I use mine for just about everything anymore. If I moved to an apartment tomorrow that tractor would be sitting outside the door.


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

SWB said:


> If I moved to an apartment tomorrow that tractor would be sitting outside the door.


LOL!


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## Liledgy (Aug 21, 2018)

Definitely get a cut! I've had both, first a b series kubota. Then I upgraded to a new Kioti dk40 hst (not dk 4010) in 2014. My loader is rated at 2750 lbs! 
Next, a few options that you really will NEVER regret. SSQA on the loader, makes changing from bucket to forks to grapple seemless. Extendable rear 3pt links makes booking up heavy attatchments a breeze. Tnt for the top link will let you adjust the angles on boxblades, rakes, grader blades on the fly, no more stopping, turning the turn buckle by hand numerous times to find the sweet spot. My tractor also has a rear 3pt lever to raise and lower the hitch from the back, super convienant. I also ran a set of hydraulic hoses from the rear hydraulic remotes (you need them too) to the front of the tractor Toruń my grapple. All these necessities will increase your tractor capabilities and usefulness by 1000%! Don't spend $15k-$20k on a machine that you have to knock pins out to change attatchments, you will never do it. Spend a few thousand more to outfit your machine that will improve your productivity and save tons of time. Hydraulic pump flow is another key to productivity. Kioti (they make Bobcat too) makes very very strong reliable machine. I like Deere and kubota too, but the only machine that compared to the dk40 was the grand L39 and it wasn't worth the added cost. Less loader strengths d hydro flow too.


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

TulsaFan said:


> SWB said:
> 
> 
> > If I moved to an apartment tomorrow that tractor would be sitting outside the door.
> ...


HaHa...Love it!! I have a stand alone third garage set up with my home gym equipment and have enough room to store the tractor. I also installed an automatic gate to enclose my driveway/garages so have plenty of extra space to store the box blade, forks or loader bucket outside on pallets and not get stolen.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I stopped and looked at the new Kubota LX3310 yesterday. It's about the same size as a John Deere 2 Series. The Kubota's have some nice features like a 3-range transmission. I don't think you can get a 3-range transmission on a Deere until you get up into the 3R's. Those new R14T tires are pretty nice too. The operator station was comfortable, but I don't think I would be a huge fan of the treadle pedal. I'm sure it's something you would get used to, but the JD twin touch pedals feel much more natural to me.



I also saw a John Deere 2038R in person this week. I would have been really tempted to buy it, but it was already sold. The salesman said he thought it was going to a local minor league ballpark. He said they don't get many 2R's because most of those buyers are geared toward high end property maintenance, golf courses or sports turf. That's too bad because that more closely matches what I'm wanting one for, but I suppose there are many more customers looking for a compact utility tractor to brush hog a bit of acreage - so the dealers understandably load up on models like the 3D's and 3E's with R4 industrial tires.



The 3E's are actually a little cheaper than the 2R's. They are basically the same size as a 2032R/2038R, but with larger tires and less features. The -R designation is their highest trim package, so you get more creature comforts like a nicer seat, cruise control, etc.

A couple of the biggest mechanical differences between the 2R's and the 3E's is the 3E's do not have a quick detach loader - the bucket is quick attach, but the loader frame stays on. I can see how that would be a deal breaker for some. Also the 3E's have no mid-PTO.

I mentioned above that the 3E's have larger tires. I think they put smaller tires on the 2R's so a mid mount mower deck will fit between them. You can kind of see the difference between the photo of the 2038R above and this photo I found online of a 3038E with turf tires. It's not a lot, but there is a difference.



I don't see myself ever wanting a mid mount mower or needing a snow blower, so I don't really need a tractor with mid-PTO, and I think I would actually prefer the larger tires on the 3E - so for me the decision between these two models would probably come down to whether or not the other -R trim features are worth the added cost.

Per the dealer, the price difference between the 2038R pictured above and a 3038R configured like the one in the other picture above is about $4,400. That is pretty significant.

I sat on the little 1025R. It would be really great for a lot of things around the house, but I think I would be limited if I ever wanted to pick up a 3-point verticutter attachment or a PTO-driven core aerator.


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## Uk0724 (May 1, 2019)

I like all of those tractors @Ware

I've found JD beats everyone in ergonomics. Since you looked at a Kubota LX 3310, stop and look at the Grand L 3560. (Without cab). The HST + turns the hydro into basically a 6 speed. Plenty of HP and not overly heavy for your yard. Not sure on price comparisons.


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

You've looked at some nice tractors. One thing the dealers won't do at least in my area is swap tires on a model that's in inventory. I wanted the R3 radials so the entire tractor had to be ordered.
Also, I rarely dropped my FEL on either of my tractors as it just seemed easier to leave it on. You don't have to find a place to store it that way either.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

@Ware The 3R series has all those "nice to haves" that frequently get added on post-purchase. Telescoping 3pt adjustments (which should be on ALL R model CUTs ...erhem... Deere.... :bd: ) In a nutshell, you're buying premium controls (Loadmatch, SpeedMatch, MotionMatch, and now eThrottle), ability to add a gazillion options (inc factory cabs), and significant hydraulic output improvement over the 2R/3E. 3R's also get you into the 1 ton club on the 3pt and to 59" with the 320R loader. LoadMatch makes using the loader productively very easy and IMO saves wear and tear on the eHydro transmission. SpeedMatch, most could easily live without but you mentioned wanting to run a PTO aerator and good speed control is a plus there. It sets a governed max speed which leaves you in control of the tractor (rather than in cruise) but flip a switch and you get your normal speed range back. MotionMatch would let you set some aggressive (short) roll-out settings for work in not so sensitive areas and then flip a switch to gentler settings out on the lawn. Totally customizes the feel of the transmission motion controls. Top and tilt 3pt as an OEM option is 3R and 4R only. It is expensive to do, but is crazy intuitive to use the loader stick (via a diverter valve) to adjust the rear blade. Good resale option too.

3E's. All 3E's I've met were as you described, equivalent in size to the largest small-frame CUTs, with tire sizes typical to the mid-frames. This wouldn't be all that bad, especially in a turf machine. But when introduced, the 3E series (3032E days) were REALLY bare bones units, devoid of almost all creature comforts and compromising build quality and ergonomics in the name of economy. They've gotten better, looking from the outside in, especially the operator's station. I'd sure like to take a newer one for a ride. You've got me wanting to go walk the lot now. :lol:

One interesting note, on paper, the 220R has another 6" of reach and 700lbs of bucket breakout force vs the 300E. This might have been done with larger cylinders combined with the bucket link geometry as the bucket cycle times are wildly different between the 300E and 220R. The 300E is surprisingly quick but at the cost of brute strength. The semi-permanent loader (300E) is a downer to me, but I'm biased because I sold tractors in snow country where dropping the loader, and re-outfitting for snow season with a front quick hitch and a blade/broom/blower was more common than it would be in AR. You can drop the bucket and get the tractor length down quite a bit. I still prefer the increased visibility of a completely removed loader but if the choice is a few grand....

I'm right there with you on the treadle-pedals. Kubota makes some great tractors, good enough that they sell despite the silly pedal. The electronic versions are better than the mechanical ones but I would take Deere mechanical twin touch pedals over an electronic treadle any day.

3 range transmissions. Yeah, Kubota has their pedal, Deere insists on 2 range transmissions in the small frame CUTs. It's certainly not a deal breaker (to me), as I never had a problem shifting ranges to go from working to transporting. Even for short intervals. But the ability to do many tasks in Medium range is nice, I will admit. I also found that with tractors doing heavy enough work to make the range shifting annoying, the task is really better suited to a mid or large frame model anyways. (which would be equipped with 3 ranges) ex. Digging into a stiff/compacted loader pile in L, with a sub-60" bucket, only to pause, shift into H, and run that load across the lawn/field/paddock to dump and spread, repeating multiple times. It's not going to be long before you wish for either a bigger machine/loader, or a second dedicated machine to haul the material.


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## Liledgy (Aug 21, 2018)

the treadle pedal would be enough for me to pass on a machine. you will regret it the first time your backing up looking up and over the rear and you need to tap the pedal to go back or forward a smidge. so much more user friendly with the twin pedal set up.


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## mbaisley (Apr 8, 2019)

I have 6.6 acres about half wooded and half grassed over. I bought a JD 3033R which is a heavy duty frame but stripped down in terms of luxury options (i.e., no hydrostatic). Mine has the "shuttle shifter." I have the heavier of the 2 options on the front bucket loader (300R) and it's a beast. I've hauled big rounds of hardwoods that altogether was a payload of around 1 ton. Counterbalanced on the rear with a heavy duty box blade. I also have an old rebuilt Kubota chain drive tiller that runs great on it. I had a brush hog but didn't use it enough so I got rid of it.

I would buy it again in a heartbeat.

Mine is now 2 years old and has about 200 hours on it.

Great tractor and if prices are around where they were when I bought mine in 2019, I don't think you'll get more tractor for the money. Plus JD was doing the 60 months 0% financing which was a no brainer.


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## mbaisley (Apr 8, 2019)

mbaisley said:


> I have 6.6 acres about half wooded and half grassed over. I bought a JD 3033R which is a heavy duty frame but stripped down in terms of luxury options (i.e., no hydrostatic). Mine has the "shuttle shifter." I have the heavier of the 2 options on the front bucket loader and it's a beast. I've hauled big rounds of hardwoods that altogether was a payload of around 1 ton. Counterbalanced on the rear with a heavy duty box blade. I also have an old rebuilt Kubota chain drive tiller that runs great on it. I had a brush hog but didn't use it enough so I got rid of it.
> 
> I would buy it again in a heartbeat.
> 
> ...


Okay I couldn't resist posting a few pictures of my 3033R. I'm especially fond of the one with my 8 year old daughter spraying it down with a pressure washer. How many 8 year old girls would ever run a pressure washer, much less beg to spray off the tractor for Dad?

I have the coolest kids on the planet. I'm not exaggerating, either of them could drive the tractor by themselves if I let them ... which I would obviously NEVER do but I am proud to think they would actually be able to.


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## Deltahedge (Apr 1, 2020)

Can y'all try to talk me out of buying a ventrac? I'm struggling with this decision. Even though it looks like a small lawn tractor, it's billed as being able to do what a compact tractor can do. So I need the people who have looked into this to tell me what I'm losing if I go the Ventrac route.

I would use the Ventrac, with FEL option, to:
1. Power rake and level the unfinished 2 acres of my property.
2. Mow the large areas and the Ditch on my property.
3. Possibly trench in irrigation lines
4. Load sand into a tow behind top dresser
5. Pull the top dresser
6. Aerate*

I think the big thing I would be giving up would be a PTO. I think I would be losing out on a lot of future options to run equipment as needed without a PTO. I'm talking about those things that come up over the next 20 years that I haven't even considered right now, but won't be able to do without a rear PTO.
*I don't think I would be able to operate a reciprocating aerator, since most of those aerator units require a rear PTO, right? Ventrac makes an aerator, but it is the roller-tine type, and I'm not really interested in that type.
I'm not sure the capabilities of their front end loader. Maybe it cant lift things as high as a compact tractor? Maybe it cant lift the same volume as a compact tractor?

Ventrac's attachments seem to be proprietary, which means they're expensive, and there aren't many used attachments on the market.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

mbaisley said:


> mbaisley said:
> 
> 
> > I have 6.6 acres about half wooded and half grassed over. I bought a JD 3033R which is a heavy duty frame but stripped down in terms of luxury options (i.e., no hydrostatic). Mine has the "shuttle shifter." I have the heavier of the 2 options on the front bucket loader and it's a beast. I've hauled big rounds of hardwoods that altogether was a payload of around 1 ton. Counterbalanced on the rear with a heavy duty box blade. I also have an old rebuilt Kubota chain drive tiller that runs great on it. I had a brush hog but didn't use it enough so I got rid of it.
> ...


Good stuff. Those 3R's are NICE! :thumbup:


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

Deltahedge said:


> Can y'all try to talk me out of buying a ventrac? I'm struggling with this decision. Even though it looks like a small lawn tractor, it's billed as being able to do what a compact tractor can do. So I need the people who have looked into this to tell me what I'm losing if I go the Ventrac route.
> 
> I would use the Ventrac, with FEL option, to:
> 1. Power rake and level the unfinished 2 acres of my property.
> ...


Have you priced them out with the options and attachments your looking for? Def not sure but im guessing think they are probably twice what a sub compact tractor and attachments are


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## HomerGuy (Jun 5, 2017)

I just recently purchased a used Kubota B2601. I had been shopping for a small compact tractor, looking at Kubota John Deere, LS, and Yanmar when I saw this one pop up for sale. Prior to purchasing this machine, I was leaning towards an LS MT225s as it seemed to be the most capable at the best price, but the limited dealer network was a little concerning.



I was initially opposed to the treadle pedal on the Kubota machines, but now having used it some, I don't mind it. Currently waiting on the box blade I ordered to come in and will probably be purchasing a set of pallet forks very soon as well. Would definitely agree with the comment to make sure it has some form of quick attach. I have swapped between the snow blade and bucket several times already and it makes it so easy.

Do think about where you are going to park it. Mine is about 17' long with the backhoe and snow blade. Really eats up a lot of garage space in a hurry.

Oh, and it makes for a fun trip to take the garbage cans out to the road.


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

HomerGuy said:


> Oh, and it makes for a fun trip to take the garbage cans out to the road.


If you don't already have one pick up a carry all. I use mine for everything including taking the trash down to the street.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

The Ventrac and also all the 3 pt hitch tractors mentioned can use an AeraVator and both categories can have an AeraVator with a Gandy type seeder. I bought a Grasshopper in the hopes of finding an AeraVator to attach to it. (About $8,000 delivered , new)

https://www.ventrac.com/video/KgFQbuhhfhg?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvvOf8J3R7wIVRQPnCh3_VQrHEAAYAiAAEgJCovD_BwE

https://1stproducts.com/turf-wholegoods/aera-vator/

@Ware I would think that an AeraVator would be a no brainer for you. GCI Pete loves them.
I wish I could justify a Ventrac or the similar Steiner but I only have 1.9 acres and can do what I intend to do with a Grasshopper. I did considered a one of the Deere four wheel drive Signature 700 series but a higher series makes a lot more sense for lots of reasons.


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

@gene_stl I've seen one of those aeravators in action. They're pretty slick.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

mbaisley said:


> I have 6.6 acres about half wooded and half grassed over. I bought a JD 3033R which is a heavy duty frame but stripped down in terms of luxury options (i.e., no hydrostatic). Mine has the "shuttle shifter." I have the heavier of the 2 options on the front bucket loader (300R) and it's a beast. I've hauled big rounds of hardwoods that altogether was a payload of around 1 ton. Counterbalanced on the rear with a heavy duty box blade. I also have an old rebuilt Kubota chain drive tiller that runs great on it. I had a brush hog but didn't use it enough so I got rid of it.
> 
> I would buy it again in a heartbeat.
> 
> ...


Your 3033R isn't lacking for "luxury" options. It's just a much less common PowerReverser transmission, an option that I really like, especially if coupled with a wet clutch. Your machine is still an "R" and if it doesn't already, can have most of the same options installed that an eHydro machine can have installed. These machines are customizable to a ridiculous extent, There are times that the PR trans is a real advantage over the hydro.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Deltahedge said:


> Can y'all try to talk me out of buying a ventrac? I'm struggling with this decision. Even though it looks like a small lawn tractor, it's billed as being able to do what a compact tractor can do. So I need the people who have looked into this to tell me what I'm losing if I go the Ventrac route.
> 
> I would use the Ventrac, with FEL option, to:
> 1. Power rake and level the unfinished 2 acres of my property.
> ...


Many things that a Ventrac can do, a tractor can do better. The inverse is true as well. Ventrac are specialty machines that are only as useful as the attachments you have for them. And you're far less likely to pick up a specific Ventrac attachment when you need it. When you do find it, it will be much more expensive than a similar tractor attachment. For non-routine tasks, most rental shops across the US have 3pt hitch attachments for compact tractors.

I would also compare lift height and capacity of the Ventrac FEL to a tractor.


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## JayGo (Jun 13, 2019)

I'm not in the market for a tractor, but I dig this thread. &#128521; See what I did there?

But seriously, you guys make me want to buy a tractor I don't need.


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## Deltahedge (Apr 1, 2020)

Thanks for your insight @MasterMech


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I looked at a new Kubota LX3310 Saturday. It was a nice tractor, but to me the operator station is not as refined as the Deere 2R's, or really even the 3R's, which haven't been refreshed as recently.

But I think what bothered me the most was the platform and left fender flexed when I put my foot on the step - even without all my weight on it. I was not expecting it to move like it did. There was an LX2610SU sitting next to it and it did the same thing.

https://youtu.be/qXna7xG0SQw


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

They also had an LX3310 with a cab. It was NICE!

Unfortunately the price they quoted for it was $35.5k for just the tractor and loader - that's before adding options like third function or rear SCV's. :|

But don't think I didn't wonder for a minute what it would be like pulling a finish mower from the comfort of a dust-free, air conditioned cab with Cuttin' Grass, Vol. 1 on the radio in August. 

The floorboard and fender on the cab model did not flex upon entry.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

SWB said:


> …Implements I use the most are a carry-all, 60 gallon sprayer, Turf-aire aerator, Landscape rake with gauge wheels, ballast box and pallet forks…


I appreciate the action shots you shared of the landscape rake with gauge wheels. It looks like it works well for minor grading/leveling work? Less aggressive than a box blade or rear blade for yard work?


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

Had a rear blade and got rid of it. The landscape rake is designed to spread material evenly and it does a great job especially with the gauge wheels. 
One thing you might consider is buying one that has a drop down blade. I think TR-3 makes one. those are handy when dealing with really fine material like sand. I fashioned a piece of wood across the back of mine and it worked great.


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## Cook (Apr 29, 2021)

Ware said:


> Let's talk about compact and subcompact tractors for lawn projects. I know @MrMeaner has some experience with the John Deere 1 Series and @SWB has a 2 Series, but I'm sure there are others.
> 
> There are a lot of projects I could use one for as I shape our 3.75 acre lot into a new lawn, but there are a lot of options to consider.
> 
> ...


I own a 1025R on my acre. It comes in very handy and projects just seem to pop up more frequently now. I researched pretty heavily before I purchased. My research led me down to two brands; kubota and deere. I didn't like the control set up on the Massey Ferg, Mahindra, LS, and others.

I went with the JD 1025R for a few reasons; (i) I don't like the heel/toe pedals, I prefer twin pedals side by side on the deere, (ii) I wanted the TLB "tractor loader backhoe", and the seat on the kubota is an abortion to swivel around. On the JD, it has a separate seat that folds down and is much easier. The 2017 and prior 1025r's had a swivel seat like kubota but even they functioned better. (iii) the JD 1025 is physically larger than the kubota bx. I read on a lot of forums that the kubota was very tipsy given its footprint. That isn't to say the 1025r is very stable on hills. I use rear wheel spacers to help.

Since purchasing in 2018, I've added a set of forks. I mainly use it to grab a pallet full of firewood. I can't lift a full pallet (inside an IBC tote) with the 1025r, but I also don't need that much firewood. I typically have it half way full which lasts me a long time (we only use firewood at our pit, not for heating house). I also had a loader mounted plow which I liked, but upgraded to a 54" snowblower. I also added a Curtis heated cab, rear blade, and other implements. I don't think I could not own a tractor, as they are so nice to have handy, especially with lawn renos  . As you have 3x my property size, I'd imagine a larger tractor may be useful for you, especially if you want to move large pallets of product. Keep in mind that hp isn't always the thing to look for, you want to look at the hydraulics. Also keep in mind that larger hp units require emission control systems, which is just something else to maintain.

Watch Tractor Time with Tim or Outdoors with the Morgans on YT for some good content.


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## HomerGuy (Jun 5, 2017)

SWB said:


> Had a rear blade and got rid of it.


I'm considering picking up a rear blade to use this winter for snow removal. I have a hydraulic angle snow plow for the loader, but to be honest it can be a little tricky to use. It is tricky to get the angle of the blade, the height of the loader arms, and the curl to be just right to keep the cutting edge flat and with just the right amount of downforce. On portions of my drive that curve and change elevation, I end up playing with it a lot. Was thinking of getting a rear blade that could just "float" like a truck mounted plow does, which would make quick work of the light snows.

But other than than, I also can't see what else I would use a rear blade for.

I just purchased a used landscape rake. Didn't even consider getting one with gauge wheels. How do you find those to be helpful?


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

HomerGuy said:


> SWB said:
> 
> 
> > Had a rear blade and got rid of it.
> ...


I originally purchased my first landscape rake without the gauge wheels simply because of the cost. They are expensive.
It wasn't long before I purchased them though and what a difference! The rake tends to washboard the ground without them.


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## Automate (Aug 14, 2020)

Cook said:


> I own a 1025R on my acre. It comes in very handy and projects just seem to pop up more frequently now. I researched pretty heavily before I purchased. My research led me down to two brands; kubota and deere. I didn't like the control set up on the Massey Ferg, Mahindra, LS, and others.
> 
> I went with the JD 1025R for a few reasons; (i) I don't like the heel/toe pedals, I prefer twin pedals side by side on the deere, (ii) I wanted the TLB "tractor loader backhoe", and the seat on the kubota is an abortion to swivel around. On the JD, it has a separate seat that folds down and is much easier. The 2017 and prior 1025r's had a swivel seat like kubota but even they functioned better. (iii) the JD 1025 is physically larger than the kubota bx. I read on a lot of forums that the kubota was very tipsy given its footprint. That isn't to say the 1025r is very stable on hills. I use rear wheel spacers to help.
> 
> ...


Very nice! I would never hear the end of it from my other half if I spent that much on equipment for my 1 acre. :lol:


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## Cook (Apr 29, 2021)

Automate said:


> Very nice! I would never hear the end of it from my other half if I spent that much on equipment for my 1 acre. :lol:


it pays for itself :lol:


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

@Ware Too much crack this morning before breakfast. Landpride has the flip down blade not the York TR3. My bad.


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## BBLOCK (Jun 8, 2020)

I just walked into the back part of my dad's shop to see he bought himself a new toy for the cottage





What a beauty w the quick release front loader and quick release bucket.

60" mower deck and cruise control I believe.

As for guys concerned with the reverse pedal on kubotas... It's really no big deal and becomes very natural. I have a lot of hours on a b7800 and I never think about it.


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## HomerGuy (Jun 5, 2017)

BBLOCK said:


> As for guys concerned with the reverse pedal on kubotas... It's really no big deal and becomes very natural. I have a lot of hours on a b7800 and I never think about it.


When I was shopping for a tractor and sitting on a bunch of different machines, the Kubota treadle peddle felt awkward. Now that I own a Kubota and have used it in real life, I agree that it feels totally natural and easy to use. Doesn't bother me at all.


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## thebmrust (Jun 29, 2020)

Automate said:


> Very nice! I would never hear the end of it from my other half if I spent that much on equipment for my 1 acre. :lol:


Look at it as time not dollars.
How much time would your other half get back if your equipment let you work faster.


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## Automate (Aug 14, 2020)

thebmrust said:


> Automate said:
> 
> 
> > Very nice! I would never hear the end of it from my other half if I spent that much on equipment for my 1 acre. :lol:
> ...


Yes, you are right. Her concern is I would use that extra time on my pet projects such as building a pond which she does not see as a priority. :lol:


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## thebmrust (Jun 29, 2020)

Automate said:


> thebmrust said:
> 
> 
> > Automate said:
> ...


Well... I wasn't gonna 'publicly' say we get more time to do more stuff. LOL


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

So back in March I had my dealer put my name on a 2038R with turf radials they were expecting in late May. It arrived earlier this month. They are surprisingly hard to find right now, so I couldn't let it go. 

Like @SWB, I think I've used it for something more days than I haven't. It's going to be a nice piece of equipment to have around, and I think it's a really nice size for lawn work.

The forks are going to be indispensable. I went with the Artillian forks because the JD/Frontier model I wanted wasn't available. These were more expensive, but they are super light, have a 2" receiver hitch built in, and the frame can be used with some of their other offerings like a stump bucket or grapples.

There are some other attachments I have my eye on, but stuff is just really hard to find right now.

I really appreciate all the input in this thread. Hopefully we can keep it alive and help others out along the way. :thumbup:


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## BBLOCK (Jun 8, 2020)

Congrats @Ware

Awesome addition to your budding turf farm.

So after all the discussions and viewing of machines how did you finally decide on the model you went with. What were the must haves and what were you able to live with out

And which attachments are you thinking will be priority


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

BBLOCK said:


> Congrats @Ware
> 
> Awesome addition to your budding turf farm.
> 
> ...


I went with Deere because I have a good relationship with the local dealer and we have other Deere equipment in the family - i.e. I have access to to some other iMatch rear and JD Quick Attach front attachments. I looked at other brands and they all have similar offerings at similar price points, so at the end of the day I think it really comes down to dealer support and personal preference.

The subcompact 1 Series was a little too small for my taste. It would be fine for most stuff around the yard, but if I was going to spend the money I wanted a little more loader lift capacity and PTO horsepower in case I ever buy something like a 3pt verticutter or aerator that demands more horsepower.

I looked at a used 3R, but it was not much smaller than my father-in-law's 4 Series that I have access to. They live about a half mile from me.

I have ordered a top and tilt kit for it to assist with things like grading. I'll have to install dual rear remotes for that, but I have some time as the guy that puts the cylinder packages together has a significant backlog.

I would like to start spreading and spraying with it, but I can't decide if I want to buy a PTO spreader or just use the electric Spyker on a receiver hitch mount that I bought for the UTV. I'll probably give it a try first. A 3pt boom sprayer is also on my short list, but I've been spraying with a boomless nozzle out of my UTV and it sure is convenient.

In the near term I would also like to get a landscape rake with gauge wheels to assist with spreading dirt and sand. I would have bought that instead of the box blade, but they couldn't source one. Like a lot of other things, attachments are hard to get right now, so I took the box blade they had in stock to take advantage of a $250 off two attachments deal. The loader bucket counted as one, so the box blade was basically $250 off. I've already used it to move some dirt that washed away in between the time we got final grading and sod, so it will be nice to have around.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I ordered a PTO broadcast spreader from ABI Attachments today. I wanted a JD/Frontier Spreader because they have a couple models that are iMatch hitch compatible (the steel hopper SS1067B and the poly hopper SS2067B), but my local JD dealer had a long lead time on the steel hopper model and no ETA at all on the poly/stainless model.

So I started exploring other options. I went down a research rabbit hole that eventually led me to figuring out that the ABI spreader and the Frontier spreader are both private-labeled versions of the BEFCO Poly-Hop, which is ASAE Cat. 1 quick hitch compatible. So I should just be able to add a set of iMatch bushings and be good to go.

Best I can tell BEFCO does not sell direct to consumer, and there are no stocking dealers near me, so I purchased it from ABI Attachments. They were super helpful/friendly. The ABI offering is basically the standard BEFCO Poly-Hop with the optional tumbling agitator. Based on some pricing I have obtained from various sources, the ABI spreader was comparable to Frontier (maybe a little less), but more importantly the lead time will be much shorter.

@SWB this is sort of relevant to your interests. I would guess your Frontier SS1067B is the same as the BEFCO Hop (209-121).

ABI PTO Spreader:





Frontier SS2067B Spreader:


BEFCO Poly-Hop 209-421:


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Ware said:


> ...


So, are you picking up that sweet ProCore 864 in Prairie's inventory next? :nod: :lol:

http://prairieturfequipment.com/product-category/aerators/


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

MasterMech said:


> So, are you picking up that sweet ProCore 864 in Prairie's inventory next? :nod: :lol:
> 
> http://prairieturfequipment.com/product-category/aerators/


That would be cool. Maybe someday when I get to the point that I feel like lack of frequent core aeration is what is holding the lawn back. But I got bigger problems right now.


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

@Ware Good job running that down. I'm envious!
Did you get the remote control?


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## Deltahedge (Apr 1, 2020)

I'm now interested to learn about another tractor I didn't know existed. Looks like some type of 4WD articulating compact tractor, that isn't a Steiner or Ventrac in the video ware posted.


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## Deltahedge (Apr 1, 2020)

Deltahedge said:


> I'm now interested to learn about another tractor I didn't know existed. Looks like some type of 4WD articulating compact tractor that isnt Stiener or Ventrac in the video ware posted.


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## Allan-00 (Aug 6, 2019)

I must say, even though I don't have anything to contribute to this thread, I enjoy following along and learning what I can!


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Deltahedge said:


> I'm now interested to learn about another tractor I didn't know existed. Looks like some type of 4WD articulating compact tractor, that isn't a Steiner or Ventrac in the video ware posted.


It's a Valpadana - looks like an Italian tractor company that says they specialize in ultra-compact dimensions. The one in the video above looks like it may be on a golf course, but they probably also market to applications like orchards where low clearance is needed.

It's a neat looking design, but it looks like it would have some of the same limitations as a Ventrac when it comes to adding a functional front loader.


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## Automate (Aug 14, 2020)

Ware said:


> I ordered a PTO broadcast spreader from ABI Attachments today.


@Ware I thought I recall you saying you went 100% spray on your previous property. I assume spraying does not scale to 3.5 acres. At what size does spraying no longer make sense? What do you plan on spreading?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Automate said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> > I ordered a PTO broadcast spreader from ABI Attachments today.
> ...


You're probably thinking of @Mightyquinn. I think he is 100% liquid. I was spraying most things, but still using granular fert at my old house. I plan to do the same here. What will probably change for me is the type of fert I buy, as cost will play a larger factor in my decisions. With 7-8k sq ft, nothing was really cost prohibitive. With 3.5 acres I will probably be shopping the clearance aisle or the local feed store/coop.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Yes, I'm about 99% spray other than the occasional lime application and I still have some SOP 0-0-50 left over that isn't sprayable that I need to use.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

SWB said:


> @Ware Good job running that down. I'm envious!
> Did you get the remote control?


I didn't get the remote. ABI didn't offer any options- well, other than including the tumbling agitator in their price.

Have you installed yours?


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

Ware said:


> SWB said:
> 
> 
> > @Ware Good job running that down. I'm envious!
> ...


I do a temporary install and remove when I'm finished using the spreader.


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## ramdaspadhye (Jul 18, 2021)

I have a Kubota L2501 with 2 acres, mostly for driveway maintenance (800ft total give or take). I will be leveling soon with sand and my land plane which has adjustable cutting edges. I can make them flat with the skids on the sides. Hoping that will give a nice level path of sand


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

AvE has a 2038R.

https://youtu.be/fofgKHZlN68


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Ware said:


> AvE has a 2038R.


Time to drive my Kubota in the pond and go get a green one.

I'm actually jealous you have a good local Deere dealer. I wanted for so long to be all green. My 2 closest dealers just suck if you're not a Farmer spending 6 figures a year.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Ware said:


> AvE has a 2038R.


Looks and sounds like the jeezless thing is hard at work for him, or babydoll. :lol: :thumbsup:


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## db79 (Jan 17, 2020)

I have a 1025R TLB with toothbar, grapple, box blade, hitch receiver. Has been a very versatile machine as long as you keep realistic expectations of what it can do. There are times I wished for a slightly larger tractor but couldn't justify the additional expensive for maintaining just a couple acres.


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## Robs92k (May 9, 2021)

@Ware interested to see what you think about the settings and adjusting for output. I have the frontier SS2036b on my JD 1025. It works awesome, but calibrating for different sizing is a bit challenging. I calibrated by flagging off an area and seeing how long it took to put down a specific amount. That changed with different products.

I also ordered the tumbling agitator…the original doesn't clean out the bottom of the bin and without the tumbler, I have had a couple gravity backups.

I honestly couldn't find anything with a more accurate dispensing method in this size. I do love it…takes <40 mins to fert all 92k. Even throws the crap SOP a lot of us ended up with (Powder/ crystal).

I highly recommend the Fimco 40g boom sprayer (3point). You can get a pressure/ jet agitator kit for <$90.

Have fun!!


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Robs92k said:


> I highly recommend the Fimco 40g boom sprayer (3point). You can get a pressure/ jet agitator kit for <$90.


Did they put the pickup on the bottom of that one? On the ATV sprayer the pickup is a tube "close" to the bottom so it's hard to get 100% of everything out in 1 pass.


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## Robs92k (May 9, 2021)

@Amoo316 yes, but the screen filter keeps it about 1/4-1/2" off the very bottom of the tank. I've never had a problem..leaves a couple pints max. If you're confident in your mix, the screen is easily removed and you could get 99.9% out. My only issue is that I could've used a 50 or 60g.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Robs92k said:


> @Amoo316 yes, but the screen filter keeps it about 1/4-1/2" off the very bottom of the tank. I've never had a problem..leaves a couple pints max. If you're confident in your mix, the screen is easily removed and you could get 99.9% out. My only issue is that I could've used a 50 or 60g.


Thanks, yeah I prefer to add an inline filter outside of the tank. Would for sure remove the in tank one. That would be a nightmare for Atrazine. I'll have to look and see if I can find a 50G one around somewhere I can go look at. I have all my spraying and speeds setup via my ATV at 25G, so I could get a 2-1 conversation spraying 50G.


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## Robs92k (May 9, 2021)

Amoo316 said:


> Robs92k said:
> 
> 
> > @Amoo316 yes, but the screen filter keeps it about 1/4-1/2" off the very bottom of the tank. I've never had a problem..leaves a couple pints max. If you're confident in your mix, the screen is easily removed and you could get 99.9% out. My only issue is that I could've used a 50 or 60g.
> ...


100% agreed. I bought this originally to only spray round up while we were bringing in fill. It really works well with everything I've put down…ProD, FAS, etc. never tried Ateazine.

If you have a farm/ fleet chain near you it's likely they'll have a 40g, but I ha ent seen anyone stock a 50 or 60.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Robs92k said:


> 100% agreed. I bought this originally to only spray round up while we were bringing in fill. It really works well with everything I've put down…ProD, FAS, etc. never tried Ateazine.
> 
> If you have a farm/ fleet chain near you it's likely they'll have a 40g, but I ha ent seen anyone stock a 50 or 60.


We have Ag Supply (Probably the same thing). They carry the 55g with boom, but requires a 6 roller pump. The 40g on at least looks like a nice base to start from. I'll have to look around. Either way thank you for the info on the pickup.


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

My dream is to get a Ventrac some day with the Kubota engine. It would make super fast work with it's loader and other attachments for leveling, and the 8 wheel wet up would be extra gentle of turf.


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## Uk0724 (May 1, 2019)

Anybody following this thread have any information on the JD 2025R?

Looking for more than a lawn mower but dont need a tractor. @MasterMech said the 2025r and 1025r were similar.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Uk0724 said:


> Anybody following this thread have any information on the JD 2025R?
> 
> Looking for more than a lawn mower but dont need a tractor. @MasterMech said the 2025r and 1025r were similar.


Picking a SCUT or CUT model is highly application specific. Do you need or want:

1. Mid-Mower capability greater than 60"?
2. Mid PTO capability at all? (For front-mount blowers, brooms, etc)
3. Rear PTO capability?
4. 3pt hitch capability? Cat 0/1, Cat 2+?
5. Loader capable?
6. Backhoe capable?

The 1025R and 2025R are solidly in the "tractor" category with loaders, backhoes, mid/rear PTOs, 3 pt hitches, etc. Of course, it's perfectly acceptable to outfit either with turf tires and a mower deck and call it a day. You'd have a mowing machine that would last a LOT longer than your average lawn tractor or even most garden tractors.


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

I had a 2305 with a 62" deck. It was the predecessor to the 1025. It was a very capable tractor but I ended up going with a dedicated mower. I got a better cut in a much shorter time with the Exmark. 
I eventually sold the 2305 and picked up a 2032r without a mower deck. I think you might be surprised how much you can use the tractor on your two acres.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

SWB said:


> ...I think you might be surprised how much you can use the tractor on your two acres.


+1



Uk0724 said:


> Anybody following this thread have any information on the JD 2025R?
> 
> Looking for more than a lawn mower but dont need a tractor. @MasterMech said the 2025r and 1025r were similar.


The 2025R is referred to as the "small" 2 Series because it is on a smaller frame than the other 2 Series tractors (2032R & 2038R). Specs-wise, it is sort of in between the 1025R and the "large" 2 Series options. Here is a good comparison video:


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## Uk0724 (May 1, 2019)

Definitely going to be the 2025R thanks to that video. (Don't know how I missed it searching YouTube)

Main priority is to replace my ZTR as a primary rotary mower for anything not reel mowed. Need the loader to move sand and some dirt occasionally.

Anything that would require more, I still have my 60hp Kubota.

Really like those 2038, but a little more than I need for the lawn. I had a B series Kubota that was perfect.

I like that the deck is easy to take off. Plan on taking it off and hooking up a 3pt finish mower for rougher spots and not mess with the good mower deck.

Slowly converting my orange to green…


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## Uk0724 (May 1, 2019)

Also, I really like the tires on @Ware and @SWB

Will definitely make those a priority.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Ware said:


> I ordered a PTO broadcast spreader from ABI Attachments today…


A quick update on this - the spreader arrived damaged. The stainless bottom plate that bolts into the poly hopper was bent such that the gates wouldn't fit into the guides. You can see it in this photo - the inner and outer guides should all be parallel.



So they ordered me a new bottom plate from the manufacturer (Befco). When I went to swap it out I found that they had cross-threaded and/or overtightened most of the 6 stainless carriage bolts holding the bottom plate in place. I was able to remove all but two, but those had been overtightened to the point that they had spun out the square holes in the bottom plate that hold the carriage bolts. I couldn't hold the smooth carriage bolt head tight enough from inside the hopper while turning the nut on the outside of the hopper to get them to break loose.

Frustrated with having so much trouble with a brand new spreader, I kindly requested that they come get and issue a refund. So for now I'm back to using my 12V Spyker.


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

I know that's frustrating. I had an issue with my landscape rake I had purchased new with the tractor. It took waaaay too long to get it resolved. It is a good looking spreader though.


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## HomerGuy (Jun 5, 2017)

@Ware I purchased a used TR3 rake off Marketplace, and have made several parts purchases from ABI. They had good customer service in my experience. Hopefully your experience is similar. Even though I didn't purchase the unit from them, one of their tech support people spent a significant amount of time on the phone with me (even texting photos back and forth) answering my questions and giving me some pointers. You could tell he definitely had a lot of first hand experience using the implement, not just giving me canned responses.

Yours is a little different since it isn't an implement they build themselves, but hopefully they were pleasant about it.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

HomerGuy said:


> @Ware I purchased a used TR3 rake off Marketplace, and have made several parts purchases from ABI. They had good customer service in my experience. Hopefully your experience is similar. Even though I didn't purchase the unit from them, one of their tech support people spent a significant amount of time on the phone with me (even texting photos back and forth) answering my questions and giving me some pointers. You could tell he definitely had a lot of first hand experience using the implement, not just giving me canned responses.
> 
> Yours is a little different since it isn't an implement they build themselves, but hopefully they were pleasant about it.


Yeah, they have been fine to work with. It's an unfortunate situation and I just refused to spend any more time trying to repair a brand new spreader.


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## HomerGuy (Jun 5, 2017)

Ware said:


> Yeah, they have been fine to work with. It's an unfortunate situation and I just refused to spend any more time trying to repair a brand new spreader.


Agreed! I think I would have hit my limit at exactly the same point as you did. You buy something used and expect to have to do some work to it. But buying new is a different story.

Once you get the new one up and running, please let us know how you like it. I am looking to add a 3pt broadcast spreader and would be interested to hear your opinion on this model.


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## Robs92k (May 9, 2021)

HomerGuy said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, they have been fine to work with. It's an unfortunate situation and I just refused to spend any more time trying to repair a brand new spreader.
> ...


@Ware/ @HomerGuy youre further ahead. Precision is still def lacking and I had similar issues. We both opted to put together ourselves, but my price included set up if I was willing to wait. I wasn't. I didn't have bends or breaks, but my experience with the hardware was similar. This is typically handled by the dealer during set up.

For the price you pay, there are others that will give you better performance and precision. The only advantages to this unit are capacity, throw distance, and PTO driven. I'd rather go electric based on this experience. I'm committed for a while and it does well with sulfur/ potash, so I don't feel like it's a complete waste and I'll get my use out of it…but buyer beware.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Robs92k said:


> ...you're further ahead. Precision is still def lacking and I had similar issues. We both opted to put together ourselves, but my price included set up if I was willing to wait. I wasn't. I didn't have bends or breaks, but my experience with the hardware was similar. This is typically handled by the dealer during set up.
> 
> For the price you pay, there are others that will give you better performance and precision. The only advantages to this unit are capacity, throw distance, and PTO driven. I'd rather go electric based on this experience. I'm committed for a while and it does well with sulfur/ potash, so I don't feel like it's a complete waste and I'll get my use out of it…but buyer beware.


Good feedback. I think I'm going to stick with the Spyker 12V for now and maybe address some of the things I don't like about it. What I was hoping to gain with the PTO spreader was capacity, but I should probably let that wish go.


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## HomerGuy (Jun 5, 2017)

@Robs92k Sorry if I missed this, but what make/model of spreader do you have?

I haven't seen many 3pt electric spreaders. Maybe one by TurfEx, but that's about it. Any other electric spreader options you are aware of?

Anytime I try to search for 3pt spreaders or sprayers I either pull up the huge agricultural implements or the lower end stuff they sell at TSC. It seems like there are some smaller manufacturers out there but they seem to be hard to find.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Ware said:


> Robs92k said:
> 
> 
> > ...you're further ahead. Precision is still def lacking and I had similar issues. We both opted to put together ourselves, but my price included set up if I was willing to wait. I wasn't. I didn't have bends or breaks, but my experience with the hardware was similar. This is typically handled by the dealer during set up.
> ...


On the hunt for a good used PermaGreen or similar?


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Ware said:


> ...
> 
> So they ordered me a new bottom plate from the manufacturer (Befco). When I went to swap it out I found that they had cross-threaded and/or overtightened most of the 6 stainless carriage bolts holding the bottom plate in place. I was able to remove all but two, but those had been overtightened to the point that they had spun out the square holes in the bottom plate that hold the carriage bolts. I couldn't hold the smooth carriage bolt head tight enough from inside the hopper while turning the nut on the outside of the hopper to get them to break loose.
> 
> ...


Regarding the stainless hardware woes, stainless fasteners can be a royal beeeeeyatch. When they tighten down, and the bolt/nut material is identical, the tendency is there for the threads to gall together like some demented permanent loc-tite and in the case of a carriage bolt, I can certainly see where that may land you in trouble not easily fixed. A little never-seize goes a long way on stainless fastener threads.


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## Robs92k (May 9, 2021)

HomerGuy said:


> @Robs92k Sorry if I missed this, but what make/model of spreader do you have?
> 
> I haven't seen many 3pt electric spreaders. Maybe one by TurfEx, but that's about it. Any other electric spreader options you are aware of?
> 
> Anytime I try to search for 3pt spreaders or sprayers I either pull up the huge agricultural implements or the lower end stuff they sell at TSC. It seems like there are some smaller manufacturers out there but they seem to be hard to find.


Agreed…that's why I finally hit the bullet on this one. Very similar to the TSC unit.

Frontier SS2036B





Turfex is my first choice as they have 3pt options…spyker had one as well, but if I remember correctly required adaptation for 3pt.

Good luck!


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## HomerGuy (Jun 5, 2017)

MasterMech said:


> On the hunt for a good used PermaGreen or similar?


Honestly, yes I have been considering this option. Pretty pricey, but maybe not so bad by the time you get a 3pt spreader and a 3pt sprayer. Just hate to have a dedicated machine sitting around that will realistically only get used maybe 10x per year at most.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

HomerGuy said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> > On the hunt for a good used PermaGreen or similar?
> ...


I drove a PermaGreen at GIE and they are impressive. I would love to have one, but I agree it's hard to justify the cost for occasional use. It would be a different story if I used it to earn a living. My only other concern is the tank capacity. Even with the low volume application rate, the tank will only cover about an acre. That's plenty for a commercial applicator to cover most lawns so it's a good design, but I would have to fill it 3-4 times every time I spray something.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Ware said:


> HomerGuy said:
> 
> 
> > MasterMech said:
> ...


Maybe continue to use the tractor or UTV for spray duty and go with a dedicated stand-on spreader?

What's a PermaGreen MSRP at?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

MasterMech said:


> Maybe continue to use the tractor or UTV for spray duty and go with a dedicated stand-on spreader?
> 
> What's a PermaGreen MSRP at?


The PermaGreen is about $10k.

The Spyker ride-on spreader is around $5k.


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## HomerGuy (Jun 5, 2017)

@Ware What equipment are you using for spray application currently?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

HomerGuy said:


> @Ware What equipment are you using for spray application currently?


I started with this: Ware's UTV Sprayer

But I have recently upgraded to a higher volume 3-point sprayer for my tractor. I need to start a thread about it.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Ware said:


> HomerGuy said:
> 
> 
> > @Ware What equipment are you using for spray application currently?
> ...


You might want a little more than an empty loader on the front with that puppy loaded up! :nod: :mrgreen:


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## Uk0724 (May 1, 2019)

@Ware . Did you get your rear tires loaded?

I'm about to make a deal and can't decide to fill them or not. I've never owned a tractor/loader without them filled, but I've also never owned a tractor with turf tires that is set up only for yard work.

Can't decide what's best for the grass…

Edit…going to tag @MasterMech and see what he thinks also.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Uk0724 said:


> @Ware . Did you get your rear tires loaded?
> 
> I'm about to make a deal and can't decide to fill them or not. I've never owned a tractor/loader without them filled, but I've also never owned a tractor with turf tires that is set up only for yard work.
> 
> ...


I didn't. With this tractor I don't think I will be using any ground engaging implements where I would benefit from the increased traction and I don't have any slopes/center of gravity concerns on my lawn. So for me I saw more benefit in being able to tread lightly on the turf. For loader work I bought the Heavy Hitch model with dual weight brackets. It weighs 63lbs and holds up to (16) 42 or 70lb suitcase weights. I loaded mine up with 42lb weights, so it weighs in around 735lbs. With 70lb weights you could go up to 1,183lbs. It is quick hitch compatible and has a 2" receiver hitch built in.

ETA: The optional rolling storage cart is 88lbs. So I guess if I left it attached when I pick it up I could have around 823lbs of ballast with this setup.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Uk0724 said:


> @Ware . Did you get your rear tires loaded?
> 
> I'm about to make a deal and can't decide to fill them or not. I've never owned a tractor/loader without them filled, but I've also never owned a tractor with turf tires that is set up only for yard work.
> 
> ...


Being able to shed ballast is a major asset for turf work. The nicer the turf, the bigger the benefit. Liquid tire ballast is relatively cheap and very effective. But you can't get rid of it on a whim, that's for sure. If you don't need the tractor to tread lightly - absolutely consider loading those rear tires, It does improve stability by lowering the tractor's CoG.

For loader work, even if you have the tires loaded to max capacity - *YOU STILL NEED WEIGHT ON THE 3PT HITCH. * This is because loaded tires does nothing to decrease the load (from the loader) on the front axle pivot and hubs. Just because you are not lifting the rear tires doesn't mean the tractor is ballasted adequately. 3 pt hitch ballast does more "work" with less mass added to the tractor overall as well.

Cast Iron weights might be more $$ per lb, but for as versatile as a CUT is, I love the ability to move weight from the front rack to the rear hitch and vice versa. Ballast Boxes loaded up with sand/gravel/concrete etc. is pretty inexpensive and compact ballast as well. As fast/easy as it is these days (it's a 5 minute procedure, if that) to drop a loader completely off the tractor (not just the bucket), I would drop the loader and throw suitcase weights up front to do many tasks, like bush-hogging, tilling, aerating, etc. and especially so if I needed to run hydraulic cylinders on the implement with the loader SCVs.


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## Uk0724 (May 1, 2019)

Good stuff. Thanks. I think I'm gonna fill them.

Just seems comfortable to me. Plus I have pretty steep hills to deal with.


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## stevepupnorth (Aug 25, 2021)

This weekend I'm replacing the rears on my bx2660. They are filled now and I won't refill them because I want less weight on the turf. The weight was great when my projects needed traction or loader counterweight but projects evolve and now if I need weight I'll hook up to an implement. I've got a flail mower that's very compact and heavy.


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

I have basically the same tractor as Ware and ordered my tires loaded. I had them unloaded pretty quickly after it was delivered. I found I just didn't need the ballast in the tires for what I use the tractor for. I have moved some pretty hefty pieces of wood around but usually use the ballast box (800lbs) for that task. One of the first things I learned using a tractor is just because you can lift something up doesn't mean you should without proper ballast. I also have suitcase weights I use on the front when necessary.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

stevepupnorth said:


> This weekend I'm replacing the rears on my bx2660. They are filled now and I won't refill them because I want less weight on the turf. The weight was great when my projects needed traction or loader counterweight but projects evolve and now if I need weight I'll hook up to an implement. I've got a flail mower that's very compact and heavy.


On smaller tractors like the BX series or Deere 1-series, the rears aren't big enough to hold a game-changing amount of ballast. I haven't met an SCUT yet that was powerful enough to need more ballast than a few suitcase weights and/or a ballast box can provide. Because of the relatively small tires and low-ground clearance, this size tractor already has a fairly low CoG and so doesn't significantly benefit from tire ballast over wheel weights in that regard.

I have supplied extra tire/wheel sets before for folks that could not or did not want to decide. :mrgreen: Usually an (sometimes loaded) R4 set for "tractor stuff" and an R3 (turf) set for everyday/mowing.

Pros:


It adds weight to rear tires in an aesthetically pleasing manner. Cast Iron or concrete-filled wheel weights can be aesthetically undesirable to some. This matters more than you'd think in this category of tractor. :lol:
If tire sealant is added to the ballast, it can provide good protection from punctures. 
It's typically cheaper to load tires than install cast-iron wheel weights.

Cons:


Dealing with loaded tires for repairs is costly compared to a standard pneumatic tire. 
 Ride quality takes a noticeable hit. This size of tractor is typically no speed demon, but in a small tire like these, there just isn't a lot of air cushion left after the ballast is installed.
 Lot's of these tractors are used for mowing. You can't easily remove the ballast for wet seasons.
 It's a matter of when, not if, the ballast will cause staining and corrosion on the rim. Even RimGaurd.


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## Uk0724 (May 1, 2019)

Finally….

2025R w/loaded turf tires and 60" mower


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Uk0724 said:


> Finally….
> 
> 2025R w/loaded turf tires and 60" mower


Looks great! Congrats!


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Uk0724 said:


> Finally….
> 
> 2025R w/loaded turf tires and 60" mower


So pretty....


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