# Poa and Renovations



## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Is it just me or does it seem like over half of the new renovations from last year are infested with Poa? What is the cause of this?

Poa seeds that were dug up in the soil when putting seed down? Or is the chance of getting poa seeds in your grass seed that high even in the high end seed?

I'm just curious because it seems like so many members are fighting it right now. Especially after renovating. Makes me nervous about renovations in the future.


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

I was thinking similar thoughts. I did an aggressive over seeding last fall and had lots of triv this year too. I think all the fall water and fertilizer and no pre emergent encouraged it.


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## Cluelessone (Sep 23, 2020)

I don't know about everywhere else, but in Chicagoland we had a severe drought in the late summer/early fall. I don't know if that stressed everything else out, giving the Poa a chance to take a foothold. I've got quite a bit of it, but due to other projects have decided to take a laissez faire attitude towards it at the moment.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

I'm one of the one's fighting it and I can tell you my issue was lack of Pre-Em in the fall, as well as no follow up tenacity apps. A few of us went this route and are paying the price for it and it ultimately comes down to what happens early in in the reno.

For me, I had a washout a couple of days after seed went down. It's almost inevitable as it's tough to avoid the late summer/early fall pop up storms, but planning is key. I had rain in the forecast and jumped the gun hoping it wouldn't be too heavy, but I was very wrong lol. The thing with a washout early on is that you need to wait for the seed to germinate before throwing down more seed so that you can see where you actually need it. Long story short, most of us ending up delaying our tenacity apps because we were throwing more seed down.

Then came the decision of a late fall Pre-Em app. Personally, I opted out of mine because I had put seed down multiple times due to thin areas and washouts and was afraid it might harm the younger seedlings. I regret this decision and would much rather be dealing with a thinner lawn now and significantly less Poa knowing that I could overseed and fill in this coming fall. By the time I felt comfortable putting down Pre-Em it was November and by that time the Poa was already up.

Here's what I'll say to you and all future reno-ers: do not overthink washouts. They happen. They are inevitable. A renovation - especially KBG renovation - is a marathon, not a sprint. Timing is everything and getting seed down early is a must, which will give you time to put more seed down and still put down properly timed pre-em in the fall. DO NOT skip your follow-up tenacity apps and fall pre-em. Regardless of how young the seed is that you put down to fill in thin areas and washout areas, that can be tackled the following fall with an overseed or plugging.


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## f_l (Aug 11, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> I'm one of the one's fighting it and I can tell you my issue was lack of Pre-Em in the fall, as well as no follow up tenacity apps. A few of us went this route and are paying the price for it and it ultimately comes down to what happens early in in the reno.
> 
> For me, I had a washout a couple of days after seed went down. It's almost inevitable as it's tough to avoid the late summer/early fall pop up storms, but planning is key. I had rain in the forecast and jumped the gun hoping it wouldn't be too heavy, but I was very wrong lol. The thing with a washout early on is that you need to wait for the seed to germinate before throwing down more seed so that you can see where you actually need it. Long story short, most of us ending up delaying our tenacity apps because we were throwing more seed down.
> 
> ...


This feels very similar to me. my poa problem is extensive. I did 2 tenacity apps in the fall but i think the 2nd app pretty much did nothing to poa that started up. pre-em this fall will be extremely important it seems.

I have a ton of bare spots from pulling poa and other weeds. i think i will try to do some seeding in early summer and just be diligent with water and see what happens so that i can commit to a fall pre-m


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## Cluelessone (Sep 23, 2020)

f_l said:


> OnTheLawn said:
> 
> 
> > I'm one of the one's fighting it and I can tell you my issue was lack of Pre-Em in the fall, as well as no follow up tenacity apps. A few of us went this route and are paying the price for it and it ultimately comes down to what happens early in in the reno.
> ...


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## rjames90 (Apr 15, 2021)

I agree, it seems like everyone has poa this year. I've seen dozens of posts about it. That being said, I've also seen a good number of photos taken from 30' away of light colored patches of grass and the masses yelling "its poa" in the comments. I'm relatively new to the lawncare life, and I have to admit that I saw all of these posts thinking I had the grass plague and the end was nigh because I have a few patches of lime green grass in my TTTF, but after looking more into it, I'm thinking its actually a fine fescue. Obviously the concern is if I'm wrong and its actually Triv I've wasted a season of intervention, but I'm just not confident enough in nuking things yet. Of course there are a lot of people who know what they're doing and dealing with so I'm not going to assume someone who says they have it doesn't, and can't speak for them, but for me it was a case of convincing myself I had it because I kept seeing it pop up on these forums and it was close enough.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

I agree with all of the comments here. I've noticed a ton of light green lawns similar to mine. So this is most likely an environmental issue. I will try and get a soil test completed. I believe amending the soil is the best solution right now.


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## psider25 (May 4, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> I'm one of the one's fighting it and I can tell you my issue was lack of Pre-Em in the fall, as well as no follow up tenacity apps. A few of us went this route and are paying the price for it and it ultimately comes down to what happens early in in the reno.
> 
> For me, I had a washout a couple of days after seed went down. It's almost inevitable as it's tough to avoid the late summer/early fall pop up storms, but planning is key. I had rain in the forecast and jumped the gun hoping it wouldn't be too heavy, but I was very wrong lol. The thing with a washout early on is that you need to wait for the seed to germinate before throwing down more seed so that you can see where you actually need it. Long story short, most of us ending up delaying our tenacity apps because we were throwing more seed down.
> 
> ...


++ me too 
fretting about washouts and ultimately skipping the late fall prem killed me... I didn't understand yet how poa works (I really didn't know what I was doing in general lol ) and thought any weeds that would come up would be easily dealt with in spring with a basic broadleaf weed killer


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## NJ-lawn (Jun 25, 2018)

One thing I never do anymore.......aerate. Besides my soil being a higher percentage of sand and really not having compaction issues over the years, I feel turning up the soil could disturb weed seeds that may have lay dormant for years.

It took me years to get rid of triv and I'm not taking any chances. I buy good quality seed and at the most, when needed I may lightly dethatch. I see a lot of UT videos of people aerating and dethatching every year, sometimes more. Not for me.....


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

NJ-lawn said:


> One thing I never do anymore.......aerate. Besides my soil being a higher percentage of sand and really not having compaction issues over the years, I feel turning up the soil could disturb weed seeds that may have lay dormant for years.
> 
> It took me years to get rid of triv and I'm not taking any chances. I buy good quality seed and at the most, when needed I may lightly dethatch. I see a lot of UT videos of people aerating and dethatching every year, sometimes more. Not for me.....


Aerating is always a good thing, but I understand your situation. You can aerate every 2-3 years. It's not required every year. I think if POA triv exist in my lawn I am bagging my clippings this year. This may help to prevent the spread of the POA clippings getting into the yard.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

creediddy2021 said:


> NJ-lawn said:
> 
> 
> > One thing I never do anymore.......aerate. Besides my soil being a higher percentage of sand and really not having compaction issues over the years, I feel turning up the soil could disturb weed seeds that may have lay dormant for years.
> ...


Why is aerating always a good thing?

How does bagging the poa trivialis clippings help it not spread?


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## varmint65 (Feb 23, 2021)

Here is a good basic article on Triv, helps in identifying and control.

https://turf.purdue.edu/roughstalk-bluegrass/

Regards,

Will


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

NJ-lawn said:


> One thing I never do anymore.......aerate. Besides my soil being a higher percentage of sand and really not having compaction issues over the years, I feel turning up the soil could disturb weed seeds that may have lay dormant for years.
> 
> It took me years to get rid of triv and I'm not taking any chances. I buy good quality seed and at the most, when needed I may lightly dethatch. I see a lot of UT videos of people aerating and dethatching every year, sometimes more. Not for me.....


I've decided against any fall seeding for me. I'll go full preemergent in fall and overseed in spring.


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

g-man said:


> How does bagging the poa trivialis clippings help it not spread?


I have read that triv can be inadvertently propagated through the lawn from a mower, although they seem to attribute it more to more aggressive cultural practices like aeration and verticutting that would be more likely to pick up and displace stolons.

I have seen unscientific, anecdotal evidence of this in my own yard. A year after my reno (last spring). I noticed triv in my backyard for the first time since I did the renovation. I think this was likely due to me putting down contaminated seed in the back corner of my backyard before I knew any better. However by last fall, I noticed it had moved to my front yard, too. The only way I could see this happening would be on my mower. Would bagging have helped? Probably not. Maybe if I cleaned the mower deck between lawns. But I think there may be some small advantage to bagging clippings in the spring to at least lower the chance you are spewing it into other parts of the lawn.

But its still going to spread unless you get active with it. I have learned this the hard way.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

gm560 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > How does bagging the poa trivialis clippings help it not spread?
> ...


That's a good point 560! I get my lawn professionally cut, so could be right about this. This is the first year this has happened in my lawn within the last 5 years.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

Lawn Noob said:


> NJ-lawn said:
> 
> 
> > One thing I never do anymore.......aerate. Besides my soil being a higher percentage of sand and really not having compaction issues over the years, I feel turning up the soil could disturb weed seeds that may have lay dormant for years.
> ...


I'm feeling the same way Noob. I think I am skipping fall overseeding as well.


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## Ngilbe36 (Jul 23, 2020)

creediddy2021 said:


> Aerating is always a good thing, but I understand your situation. You can aerate every 2-3 years. It's not required every year. I think if POA triv exist in my lawn I am bagging my clippings this year. This may help to prevent the spread of the POA clippings getting into the yard.


I am not trying to cut you down by any means, but it seems like sometimes your "guidance" contradicts what is preached by the majority of very experienced people on this forum. I think we should all be careful and make sure advice we provide is based in fact, or explicitly stated as your opinion.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@gm560 the Purdue (Boiler up!) Article that @varmint65 linked is really good. Poa t spreads via seeds or stolons. Aeration can break a stolon away and spread it to the spot the core lands on. Bag soil can also bring it to your lawn.

Clippings (a cut leaf) will not spread poa trivialis. Bermuda does spread via sprigs (mainly the stems and not the leaves).


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

g-man said:


> @gm560 the Purdue (Boiler up!) Article that @varmint65 linked is really good. Poa t spreads via seeds or stolons. Aeration can break a stolon away and spread it to the spot the core lands on. Bag soil can also bring it to your lawn.
> 
> Clippings (a cut leaf) will not spread poa trivialis. Bermuda does spread via sprigs (mainly the stems and not the leaves).


Here is the article I was reading and the passage I referenced. https://www.golfdom.com/an-integrated-strategy-for-controlling-poa-trivialis/



> Be aware that sanitation is important during aeration, vertical mowing and even mowing to limit unintentional propagation. Mow or cultivate infested areas last if possible.


I realize leaf clipping are not going to root and cause an infestation, but I guess hypothetically a stolon could be ripped up by a mower blade, turning wheel, etc. and hitch a ride to a new location. That is the only point I was making.


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## Old Hickory (Aug 19, 2019)

Animals can also carry seed from yard to yard.


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## SOLARSUPLEX (Aug 4, 2020)

@jrubb42 You posted the exact question I was beginning to have. It seems every other thread is about Poa Annua and then an equivalent amount of posts on 'How do I use Tenacity to control Poa A'. I only noticed this because i'm facing the same issue and all of us 'new' lawn guys that renovated last year are trying to understand how to get our turf under control.

I'm curious for those of you that renovated last year and have a ton of Poa. Was your seed from seedsuperstore? I'm not trying to point blame but it would be very interesting if most cases were instances of us using the same seed supplier.

In terms of being constructive to the conversation. I've been hand pulling 5 gallon buckets worth of poa every few days attempting to get the main plants out of the way so I can overseed in all the areas that they left bare. I've also just applied Tenacity at the 2oz/acre rate in a blanket app in hopes of further identifying the poa so i can hand pull the remainder.

My hope is to do a second blanket app of tenacity in a week from the first spray to get the rest. I'll then scalp, light sand level, overseed, apply a third round of blanket tenacity app and then just care for the turf until the end of summer when i'll start my prodiamine apps for the fall in homes that none of the poa seeds can germinate going forward.

Does anybody see issue with this plan? @g-man would love your input here as well as a majority of the timing is based on the cool season guide.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

SOLARSUPLEX said:


> @jrubb42 You posted the exact question I was beginning to have. It seems every other thread is about Poa Annua and then an equivalent amount of posts on 'How do I use Tenacity to control Poa A'. I only noticed this because i'm facing the same issue and all of us 'new' lawn guys that renovated last year are trying to understand how to get our turf under control.
> 
> I'm curious for those of you that renovated last year and have a ton of Poa. Was your seed from seedsuperstore? I'm not trying to point blame but it would be very interesting if most cases were instances of us using the same seed supplier.
> 
> ...


I think this is more of what I'm trying to figure out as well. I just find it very coincidental, that 60%+ of renovations from last year are dealing with Poa Annua. Most of which have never had any Poa issues in that past. I realize that Poa seeds can lay dormant for 10+ years but it's just very ironic that all of these renovations have ended up with Poa issues.

Now I understand that some of it might be user error with pre-em, but where are these Poa seeds coming from? There was really that much Poa laying dormant in all of these lawns and they came to life from renovating last year? When they didn't deal with it in the past?

I am leaning towards never renovating because of what I'm seeing everyone deal with right now.


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## SOLARSUPLEX (Aug 4, 2020)

My conclusion is to NOT skimp on Tenacity and Prodiamine during a renovation because of cost. My thought initially was I could just deal with whatever weeds showed up because I had the time and skipped a pre emergent. Well lesson learned and in the end i'm still spending the money on those products just a year later and a lot of hours spent pulling weeds.

Live and learn right?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@SOLARSUPLEX I'm not sure I follow what you are trying to do.

By the way, I posted this in another thread. I did not renovate last year and I had more poa annua than previous years. I did prem, but maybe I was late or the weather cause issues. Do think it is all just because the seeds/renovation.


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## SOLARSUPLEX (Aug 4, 2020)

Apologies on not being extremely clear. My intent this season was to overseed my renovation from last fall. The steps above are how I intend to do that now that Poa A has become such a prevalent part of my turf. @g-man


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I don't have a clue on how to do that without a renovation and weeks of fallowing.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

At the risk of creating resentment with you all (and jinxing myself) my reno has been fairly clear of Poa.

I'm further north than many so maybe I'm jumping the gun on saying this (because seed heads aren't out in full force yet), but I've only spotted a handful of plants.

FWIW I did get lucky with weather (no washouts) and got 1 tenacity app down at seed and a second later on. No fall prodiamine.


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## Togo (Jun 7, 2017)

I skipped a fall pre-em and did two apps of starter with meso built in. Paying the price with more Poa now than normal


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## BrainBailey (Nov 20, 2019)

I've had the same experience as many have already described. I renovated last year and have found lots of Poa A this year. I'm not sure if it's related, but snow mold was especially bad for my area this year as well. My neighborhood is full of Poa A, so don't think it was a problem induced by my reno - my yard looks better than most. Just hypothesizing...

My plan: walk around every few days with my ear buds in and hori hori knife in hand (thanks for the tip @g-man!). Compared to my job, weed slaughter is very relaxing, so I look at it as a good opportunity to get fresh air, relax, and be productive (lessens the sting).

I'm thinking about trying to do a pre-germinated overseed right before the first fall pre-m app. I have some seed leftover from the reno, so figure it might be a fun experiment. Don't have the highest confidence, but going to give it a shot.


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## damanpal (Jul 22, 2020)

@davegravy - I am close to you but not as lucky. Half of my lawn that I renovated last fall is full of Poa A. I did 2 tenacity apps during the reno as well. Also have a few spots where quackgrass is showing. It has been cold so didn't do much yet but planning to start weekly apps of tenacity at 2oz starting this weekend for Poa. Just applied prodiamine 2 days ago at half the yearly rate.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

damanpal said:


> @davegravy - I am close to you but not as lucky. Half of my lawn that I renovated last fall is full of Poa A. I did 2 tenacity apps during the reno as well. Also have a few spots where quackgrass is showing. It has been cold so didn't do much yet but planning to start weekly apps of tenacity at 2oz starting this weekend for Poa. Just applied prodiamine 2 days ago at half the yearly rate.


Hmm... Before your reno did you have a couple or more seasons of applying fall prodiamine? Do you know if you had much poa before the reno?

Reason I ask is, my pre-reno lawn has so many varieties I wouldn't have known if I had a ton of Poa (it would be just another mismatched grass)


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## damanpal (Jul 22, 2020)

Pre-reno I had a lot of crabgrass, broad leaf weeds and a huge nutsedge problem. Never had these seed factories in my lawn. Maybe I had some but not at this scale. This is the first time I applied prodiamine though. Maybe it was in the 7 yards of soil I got or maybe seeds were there for years and were finally bored enough lying around and thought of having some fun with me.


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

davegravy said:


> At the risk of creating resentment with you all (and jinxing myself) my reno has been fairly clear of Poa.
> 
> I'm further north than many so maybe I'm jumping the gun on saying this (because seed heads aren't out in full force yet), but I've only spotted a handful of plants.
> 
> FWIW I did get lucky with weather (no washouts) and got 1 tenacity app down at seed and a second later on. No fall prodiamine.


Agree with you @davegravy. I reno'd last fall too and I have been relatively clear of huge poa outbreaks. My worst areas are on my property lines, which I can place as much (or more) blame on my neighbors than on my reno processes. I only applied tenacity at seeding and nothing else for the duration of the fall. I have hand pulled maybe a 2 gallon bucket full this spring and have a few more floating around. From what I've gathered reading the reno threads, the Mazama renos seem to have the biggest outbreaks. I'd be curious to see if there is any correlation on where they sourced their seed.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

I would say the common denominator is lack of a properly timed fall pre-emergent. Tenacity is ok as a pre-em, but it's more of a "just gonna put it down because it can't hurt and can only help" at time of seeding and throughout the renovation. It has pre-emergent properties, but it's not a true prodiamine-esqu pre-em.

The goal moving forward for everyone dealing with it needs to be hand-pulling as much as possible now and NOT freaking out. I'm with you and I've had those thoughts creep in that say the renovation was a failure and I need to go out there with glyphosate and try it all again and get it right this time. Well, maybe you haven't been that dramatic, but I have at times! Just gotta keep our cool and keep fighting it. If you do opt to overseed this fall, time your spring pre-em apps so you can get the seed down early. The priority for us all needs to be getting down a properly timed fall pre-emergent app based on your location and temperatures that will help prevent new Poa from germinating. Some will get through, but it'll be way more manageable.

For those planning renovations it needs to be an absolute priority, regardless of when seed went down on thing areas, to get that pre-em app down at the right now. Don't mess around with that.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I checked my log, 30mar dimension, 12jun prodiamine 5g/Ksqft and 05oct prodiamine 5g/Ksqft. Ideally I wanted 01Sept, so I was late for a month. I have poa a in spots that I don't recall ever having any.

But, it is also one of those things that once you can see it, it is very hard not to notice anymore. And it is very noticeable in a monostand.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

What to do after pulling POA? They tend to leave gaping holes if they get big enough. Is it too late to hand pull and reseed with tenacity and irrigation?


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## MrHyt (Apr 17, 2021)

Hello All,

I'm new to this forum so I'm not sure if it's allowed, but can those who have experienced the Poa problems share what seed they used? Reading all of the recent posts and seeing the photos makes me extremely hesitant to consider a reno... I'm curious if there is a certain supplier I should avoid.

Thanks everyone!


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## reallyfunguy (Mar 16, 2021)

1028mountain said:


> What to do after pulling POA? They tend to leave gaping holes if they get big enough. Is it too late to hand pull and reseed with tenacity and irrigation?


Iv been hand pulling mine. I have huge bate spots. I plan on reseeding those areas. Not sure if they will make it or not. Worth a try.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

MrHyt said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I'm new to this forum so I'm not sure if it's allowed, but can those who have experienced the Poa problems share what seed they used? Reading all of the recent posts and seeing the photos makes me extremely hesitant to consider a reno... I'm curious if there is a certain supplier I should avoid.
> 
> Thanks everyone!


The suppliers (eg. Hogan or seed super store, etc) just buy it in pallets from the larger distributors. They buy the seeds from multiple farms/plots. Within a farm or a plot, there could be good areas (low poa/weeds), ok areas and bad areas. The good stuff is sold and sampled to try to meet Gold tag. Some won't pass, so you get Blue tag and then the rest gets blended and sold at home depot as contractor mix.

Gold/Sod = more sampling to try to detect weeds. Blue means mainly that the seed matches the variety. But they all have some weeds/poa a. Yes, even when the label says 0 weeds, it is just a statistical confidence interval. In the sample they looked at (because we don't have machines can 100% vision inspect every seed), they found 0.

I buy Gold tag to reduce my chances of issues. But they will always be some.


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## MrHyt (Apr 17, 2021)

g-man said:


> MrHyt said:
> 
> 
> > Hello All,
> ...


Thank you for clarifying, I really appreciate it! Still makes me wonder if a certain supplier had more issues than another seeing there are so many people experiencing a problem this year.


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## Cluelessone (Sep 23, 2020)

I used a mix of whatever was on sale at Menards, and it ended up being primarily this: https://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/gardening/lawn-plant-care/grass-seed/natures-finest-trade-northern-mix-grass-seed/32020/p-1444450689169.htm.

I don't have a total boatload of POA, but there is a large area that is only POA on the side of my driveway (what happened there, who knows). I'm thinking I'm going to kill that area off and go again with seed in the fall. It's near where I had a stump ground out, so I'll have that area to reseed anyways, might as well add a little extra to it.


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## cleohioturf (Jul 20, 2020)

I think the hardest part of this situation for most folks is going to be breaking the cycle. One positive, I would imagine most people used either all KBG or close to it, which will fill on its own, but is also more drought resistant.

You want to stress the poa, less water. Thats going to be hard to watch but the bluegrass can handle it much longer than the poa. Hopefully after this period you can get some bluegrass filling in and get back on fall pre emergent in time.

Obviously you can also go out and cut the sections out. Personally I am doing a lighter touch, going to do other things around the yard this year, not worry too much, and see what next year brings me.


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## Cluelessone (Sep 23, 2020)

cleohioturf said:


> I think the hardest part of this situation for most folks is going to be breaking the cycle. One positive, I would imagine most people used either all KBG or close to it, which will fill on its own, but is also more drought resistant.
> 
> You want to stress the poa, less water. Thats going to be hard to watch but the bluegrass can handle it much longer than the poa. Hopefully after this period you can get some bluegrass filling in and get back on fall pre emergent in time.
> 
> Obviously you can also go out and cut the sections out. Personally I am doing a lighter touch, going to do other things around the yard this year, not worry too much, and see what next year brings me.


This is what I'm leaning towards for the here-and-there patches. I'm only planning to nuke the 24"x24" area that appears to be 100% POA. I also rip off a seedhead or two (of the millions) when I'm around the yard and have a free hand. Take THAT, suckas!! :lol:


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## jperm47 (Jul 29, 2020)

Sheesh, add me to the victim list --> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27376


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

I find it hard to believe that these weeds could be coming from seed on this massive of a scale. In my mind it has to be some combination of loaded topsoil, improper fallowing, or badly timed pre-em / tenacity apps.

I'm guilty of lazy fallowing prior to seed down. But I did put down tenacity and prodiamine in late October and early November when many others doing renos were shying away from it. My yard has very few weeds now, and a large % of the poa that is there is coming up bleached white and weakened. I'm not suggesting that putting down tenacity in November is always a great idea, but last year was a relatively mild November. Poa was likely actively sprouting and growing much later in the fall than usual. I feel those late season apps saved me a lot of trouble this year.


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## Pompy (Oct 15, 2020)

I've seen comments here and there about success from aggressive overseeding to outcompete poa. Any truth/theory to this? I've committed to this last fall and so far so good but I need a follow up fall overseed to be sure. Once I'm done this year with that, I'm going to repeatedly pre-merge bomb (spring/fall/late fall) the place to see if that locks it all up.


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

Pompy said:


> I've seen comments here and there about success from aggressive overseeding to outcompete poa. Any truth/theory to this? I've committed to this last fall and so far so good but I need a follow up fall overseed to be sure. Once I'm done this year with that, I'm going to repeatedly pre-merge bomb (spring/fall/late fall) the place to see if that locks it all up.


A thick stand and Tenacity in the fall seems to hold up a good defense. The small areas I have a poa A issue are bare spots that I struggled to get seed to take in the fall.

An argument could be made that if you have a real issue in certain spots, you could put pre-em on them in the fall and then try to seed them in the spring with tenacity, instead. Flipping the risk to seed maybe not taking or lasting but then you have broken the cycle and can seed with tenacity the following fall with less risk of poa A.

It is amazing that's Poa A can find a way to germinate in literally a pinhole crack in concrete.


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## moedank (Sep 10, 2019)

I've noticed poa annua slightly scattered throughout my fall renovation area. The poa has been advantageous in the thinner areas but is no where to be found in the dense fescue sections. I used GCI Turf TTTF last fall. The fall before that was a Jonathan Green Black Beauty Original TTTF reno and there wasn't any noticeable poa annua the following spring. Contaminated seed?

It could also be the topsoil that was brought in but the same soil company was used both years.

I'm going to try to manage the poa by doing what I always do: cut high (3.5-4in) and water only when needed to keep the grass alive during summer dormancy. The hope is high cut fescue turf, little watering and transition zone weather will prevent poa from establishing any further. The dense fescue areas give me hope that poa doesn't have as much of a natural advantage in the transition zone as compared to further up north. Don't get me wrong, I think poa could thrive in a transition zone, routinely watered, low cut KBG lawn but not in my Tier 1.5-2 maintenance lawn. We will see. I'll track it closely over the summer and fall.


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## vipersbyms (Aug 22, 2020)

I did a heavy overseed in the fall with GCI TTTF and ended up with Poa A and Poa T, as well as some others. I didn't put down a pre-emergent in the fall, but I did this spring. Going to blanket spray with Q4 Plus and Round Up the Poa T.


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