# Verticut, Sand, Seed? or Sand, Verticut, Seed?



## Seeking_Turf (May 2, 2018)

Planning to start my Fall lawn project this coming weekend. Current HOC is 3/4" and my last application of PGR was 4 weeks ago. I figured I would take advantage of the rebound growth and level my entire lot with 4 yards of sand. What would your order of operations be in my case? I've been going back and forth whether to sand or verticut first.

8/12 - Level with sand
8/21 - Lower HOC to 1/2" and apply PGR (.75oz per 1k sqft)
8/22 - Verticut and seed (kbg)

OR

8/12 - lower HOC to 1/2" 
8/13 - Verticut
8/14 - Level with sand
8/24 - and apply PGR (.75oz per 1k sqft)
8/25 - Seed (kbg)

Cheers!


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

I pretty much did the same thing in July within a two day time span.

- Reel mowed
- Verticutt
- Bagged
- Sand
- Drag
- Seed
- Tenacity
- Water
- PGR

I choose to sand after verticutt as everything was opened up and ready.


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## Seeking_Turf (May 2, 2018)

zeus201 said:


> I pretty much did the same thing in July within a two day time span.
> 
> - Reel mowed
> - Verticutt
> ...


Sweet deal Zeus201! Was there any particular reason why you verticut before sanding? I was always under the impression verticutting followed by over seeding resulted in higher germination rates due to the slits in the ground. How did the sand filled slits affect the germination rates when you applied the seeds after sanding?

:beer:


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Let's ping the sand expert @wardconnor.


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## Seeking_Turf (May 2, 2018)

g-man said:


> Let's ping the sand expert @wardconnor.


Thanks g-man :thumbup:


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

@Seeking_Turf

I have done this same thing that you are proposing 2 times. Fall of 2016 and Fall of 2017.

The sooner you topdress with sand the better, so your turf can have time to recover from suffocation of sand. It will take about a month or more for the sand to disappear and even after your lawn goes dormant you will still see some sand in the spring.

The sand leveling is so rewarding and addictive. It works so well and the results you will get will be well worth your time, effort, and money in my opinion.

I plan to do this again in a few weeks. I think that your second option with a few minor changes would be the best. This is what I personally would do. This does not mean that it would be best for you. You will be happy with anything option in a year from now.

8/12 - lower HOC to 1/2" the lower the better. Lower makes spreading the sand WAYYY easier
8/13 - Verticut
8/13 - Bag up thatch with rotary mower 
8/13 - Quick release fert like Urea or Ammonium sulfate.
8/14 - Level with sand
8/20 - and apply PGR (.75oz per 1k sqft) NO PGR, you want that grass to grow gangbusters so it will grow through the sand. You really want it growing vigorously. (please take this as only MY opinion. I could be wrong)
8/20 - Seed (kbg) PRG. If you want your KBG to be thicker then put down fertilizer in a lot of light doses in the fall. and then follow that up with several light doses in the spring. The KBG will thicken up with all the fert. The KBG just takes too long to germinate. I guess you may be able to have success with the PGR. I am not sure.

Another thing is that as you mow low and the more you mow low, the thicker your stand will become. Your existing KBG will thicken up naturally and get ultra dense over time even without adding more seed.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Seeking_Turf said:


> Sweet deal Zeus201! Was there any particular reason why you verticut before sanding? I was always under the impression verticutting followed by over seeding resulted in higher germination rates due to the slits in the ground. How did the sand filled slits affect the germination rates when you applied the seeds after sanding?
> 
> :beer:


I approached it as if I opened up the stand with aggressive verticutting, this would allow the KBG grass seed a better chance competing against the existing stand.

The sand feel nicely into the slits. Germination is for another story.


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## Seeking_Turf (May 2, 2018)

wardconnor said:


> @Seeking_Turf
> 
> I have done this same thing that you are proposing 2 times. Fall of 2016 and Fall of 2017.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input Mr. Ward! Much appreciated! Will definitely go with option 2 along with you additional tips :thumbup: I completely agree with the PRG as I know it will definitely germinate and take off compared to trying to overseed with KBG. I am more or less trying to go down that road less traveled with the KBG overseed and PGR. An experiment if you will.

Decided to drop the HOC today to 1/2" to see how my turf would handle it. Got a quick mow in before it started raining. Overall i was pretty happy on the outcome. I felt a few spots where it scalped a bit but nothing crazy. Really looking forward to turning my entire lot into a sandbox next week :lol:


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## Seeking_Turf (May 2, 2018)

zeus201 said:


> Seeking_Turf said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet deal Zeus201! Was there any particular reason why you verticut before sanding? I was always under the impression verticutting followed by over seeding resulted in higher germination rates due to the slits in the ground. How did the sand filled slits affect the germination rates when you applied the seeds after sanding?
> ...


Thanks for your input :thumbup:


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## TravisH06 (Jun 17, 2018)

@wardconnor do you just spread the seed and water it? Do you rake the seed in?


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

Like a very light raking after seed. Just enough to possibly cover it ever so slightly.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

I would apply pgr a little aboive normal rate wait a few days and then verticut sand and seed. It takes a 3-5 days for regulation to occur


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## NewLawnJon (Aug 3, 2018)

@zeus201 Any issues with sanding your yard in Iowa? All the places I have found locally are using limestone for their sand and I don't want to affect my ph level.


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## Rule11 (May 5, 2018)

I love @wardconnor ideas. This is my routine. 
8-17 mow at 7/16" front and back yards, verticut back yard and bag as much thatch as possible. Drop seed with drop spreader on #7 setting. Roll to push seeds into and close slits. Then lite sand top-dress for most of the areas, and a little heavier if i want to raise a small section/low spot. Then drop seed again. Push broom entire yard to mesh all together, then set the Rachio 2 to my new seed schedule. Every 4 hours for 10 minutes.

8-18 and 8-19 repeat same process in front and complete side strip True Putt experiment. PGR went down Tuesday so i will be good for a few weeks, and i dont think i will be using Tenacity this round. Want to see the diffeence. My Gamble summer backyard reno in June, the second app of Tenacity really hiy it hard and took 2 weeks to come back. All baldes were white for about 13 days. That app was 5 weeks after seed down. 4 weeks following germination.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

NewLawnJon said:


> Any issues with sanding your yard in Iowa? All the places I have found locally are using limestone for their sand and I don't want to affect my ph level.


Idk of if it was limestone based. The sand I got is what the local golf courses uses. It felt super soft/ smooth, like a tropical beach, and it settled nicely. It was also devoid of large pebbles or rocks which is a plus for reel mowing.


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