# Who is mowing residential grass at or below 1/4 inch?



## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

I'm curious to know if anyone is maintaining 0.25" or lower. I'm having a couple of issues and wondering if it's just me.

First, striping is tough. If I make 3 passes, stripes look just OK, not super defined. I can make them more defined with 6 or 7 passes, however, that always results in turf damage. Especially where the u-turn happens for the next stripe.

Second, and more important, when I go any lower than 1/4 inch, I get "pits" in the grass. Not the soil, just the grass. Basically every square foot has 2 or 3 penny-sized sections where the blades are just not as dense as the rest of the areas.

I'm not in a place where I can post pics but will as soon as I can. Hopefully someone mowing this low can chime in.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@HungrySoutherner what HOC are you at?


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

I found that even though I loved the look of mine when cut at .28"-.34", it is at its happiest looking when I cut at 0.6" to 0.7" when factoring in my ability to water.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I think bermuda isn't going to stripe very well regardless and when you factor in that the cultivar you have isn't really designed to be mowed that low so there will be some trade offs you will need to deal with. Unless you have a cultivar that is designed to be mowed low your results will be less than desirable. If you want to maintain your lawn at that low HOC you would need a Dwarf type bermuda(Mini Verde, Champion, TIfDwarf......) but from what little info that is out there maintaining them above .125" will create a lot of thatch so I'm not to sure how feasible that is. That is why I went with TIfGrand as it seems to be the best of both worlds if you like cutting it short. I have been mowing mine at .300" but just did a topdressing so I won't know for sure until it all thickens back up but it was striping nice and had a nice dark green color to it at that height.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I started mine off at .25" last year and kept it there for a prolonged period into the summer in hopes of stressing out some common I have popping up in one spot. It worked and the common area is super thin and lots of bare dirt now but the Tifway 419 didn't really like it either. It did start striping better once it got thicker into the summer. I'll have to go back and check my journal for spring 2021.

EDIT: It looks like I kept it at .25" until the end of June then bumped it up to 3/8".


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## Keepin It Reel (Feb 20, 2019)

I've been maintining my yard at .375 and still get decent striping. The lower you go there isn't much leaf tissue to push over to reflect light.

I'm prepping my putting green now which I plan to maintain around .125-.150. Excited to see how well it does on top of clay soil.


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## Sonoran Desert Lawn (Aug 22, 2020)

I will put it this way. Even when you look at the PGA, the greenest and best looking spots are somewhere between the fairways to semi rough. Aka 1/2 or higher. The lower the HOC, the more natural green loss. Just my opinion.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Sonoran Desert Lawn said:


> I will put it this way. Even when you look at the PGA, the greenest and best looking spots are somewhere between the fairways to semi rough. Aka 1/2 or higher. The lower the HOC, the more natural green loss. Just my opinion.


I have noticed the same thing. The greens always look faint and washed out.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

Really appreciate all the feedback.



Mightyquinn said:


> I think bermuda isn't going to stripe very well regardless and when you factor in that the cultivar you have isn't really designed to be mowed that low so there will be some trade offs you will need to deal with. Unless you have a cultivar that is designed to be mowed low your results will be less than desirable. If you want to maintain your lawn at that low HOC you would need a Dwarf type bermuda(Mini Verde, Champion, TIfDwarf......) but from what little info that is out there maintaining them above .125" will create a lot of thatch so I'm not to sure how feasible that is. That is why I went with TIfGrand as it seems to be the best of both worlds if you like cutting it short. I have been mowing mine at .300" but just did a topdressing so I won't know for sure until it all thickens back up but it was striping nice and had a nice dark green color to it at that height.


Thanks, MQ. I did not know that about celebration. It's a small section about 1000 sq ft but changing again is a tough call for me. I had to dig over a foot into the soil and re-soil to prevent old latitude 36 from coming up. I also worry about losing Celebration's color which (to me) seems very unique in natural darkness compared to others.

That being said, I have a clean canvas in my backyard that I haven't gotten to yet. I made try one of the varieties you suggested in a section back there to compare with Celebration. Much appreciated MQ!



DFW_Zoysia said:


> I found that even though I loved the look of mine when cut at .28"-.34", it is at its happiest looking when I cut at 0.6" to 0.7" when factoring in my ability to water.


Yes, the higher grass (especially in summer for me) seems to look better. Although I don't know if I can go higher than 0.5". Well, I could. But I just struggle after maintaining 1/4 inch HOC to go higher. My brain seems to malfunction above 0.5, lol.



Redtwin said:


> I started mine off at .25" last year and kept it there for a prolonged period into the summer in hopes of stressing out some common I have popping up in one spot. It worked and the common area is super thin and lots of bare dirt now but the Tifway 419 didn't really like it either. It did start striping better once it got thicker into the summer. I'll have to go back and check my journal for spring 2021.
> 
> EDIT: It looks like I kept it at .25" until the end of June then bumped it up to 3/8".


3/8 is very decent. Certainly stripes a lot better for me at that height. I may let it grow another 1/8th inch or so. I'd like to not have to scalp this summer so I need to be super gradual with the raise. Thanks RT!



Keepin It Reel said:


> I've been maintining my yard at .375 and still get decent striping. The lower you go there isn't much leaf tissue to push over to reflect light.
> 
> I'm prepping my putting green now which I plan to maintain around .125-.150. Excited to see how well it does on top of clay soil.


Your lawn is insanely dense. The only bermuda variety that I managed to get similar density was Latitude 36. My lawn has been Primo'd all year and celebration just doesn't seem to thicken up. It's certainly dense and frequently called "carpet, fake, etc... " by neighbors, but not quite where I would like it. I had to go up from 0.125 cause my mower starts to dig. 0.25 is a sweet spot for the mower it seems.



Sonoran Desert Lawn said:


> I will put it this way. Even when you look at the PGA, the greenest and best looking spots are somewhere between the fairways to semi rough. Aka 1/2 or higher. The lower the HOC, the more natural green loss. Just my opinion.


I agree, lower = less green than higher cuts. Celebration is very unique with its natural color. While it shares the "higher is greener" characteristic, the grass is very very dark in general, so the low cut parts are greener than all neighboring lawns. But still lighter green than my sections that are cut higher like around utilities. Thanks!


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## erdons (Apr 3, 2018)

2 years ago I mowed a putting green area on my Tifsport. Couldn't stripe very well and took a good 3 months from scalp to fully green area at .125


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## monsonman (Dec 9, 2020)

Austinite said:


> Really appreciate all the feedback.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lets see some pics! I'm anxious to get another levelling project done so I can keep working my way down.... .415" is the lowest I've gotten down to with my Celebration.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

monsonman said:


> Lets see some pics! I'm anxious to get another levelling project done so I can keep working my way down.... .415" is the lowest I've gotten down to with my Celebration.


ugh! I didn't want to post cause of yellow PGR hazing but oh well. Been waiting to recover from over-dosing Primo Maxx since it is not labeled for Celebration Bermuda, I realize now that Celebration is hypersensitive to PGR. My next round will be at just under half the rate of the lowest listed variety. So probably ~ 0.1 per 1/k next.

*The yellow hazing you see is from PGR, this is day 4 but it's starting to recover. * The yellow around my "band" where higher grass exists is scalp marks.


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## bretts (Jul 29, 2020)

Austinite said:


> ugh! I didn't want to post cause of yellow PGR hazing but oh well. Been waiting to recover from over-dosing Primo Maxx since it is not labeled for Celebration Bermuda, I realize now that Celebration is hypersensitive to PGR. My next round will be at just under half the rate of the lowest listed variety. So probably ~ 0.1 per 1/k next.


What are those green things in your yard?


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

bretts said:


> Austinite said:
> 
> 
> > ugh! I didn't want to post cause of yellow PGR hazing but oh well. Been waiting to recover from over-dosing Primo Maxx since it is not labeled for Celebration Bermuda, I realize now that Celebration is hypersensitive to PGR. My next round will be at just under half the rate of the lowest listed variety. So probably ~ 0.1 per 1/k next.
> ...


Moisture Meters that connect to my Ambient weather station.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

bretts said:


> What are those green things in your yard?


Glad you asked. I was going to ask but thought for sure I couldn't be the only one wondering why he had holsters for his spray nozzles all over his yard.


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## Martineztteel (8 mo ago)

Austinite said:


> I'm curious to know if anyone is maintaining 0.25" or lower. I'm having a couple of issues and wondering if it's just me.
> 
> First, striping is tough. If I make 3 passes, stripes look just OK, not super defined. I can make them more defined with 6 or 7 passes, however, that always results in turf damage. Especially where the u-turn happens for the next stripe.
> 
> ...


I am and have been mowing my lawn well below 1/4 inch. I am presently at .128 as I have been bringing it back slowly from dormancy. I started at around 175 this spring and will go to 125 (1/8 inch) soon. I just moved from 130 to 128 this week. I have tifgreen 328 which can handle the low cut heights. I do level the lawn from time to time, now included to fill in any pits like you mention. I like to use masonry sand as it is real fine and works its' way in easily. I try to mow daily but usually take weekends off. It is a real quick mow with 1000 sq. feet. Picture attached is at 130. As far as stripes mine are ok using a Toro Greens Master 1000 but could be better. If I overseed with rye in the fall they look much better.


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## GAbermuda (9 mo ago)

Just curious as to why you went through the major hassle to rip out lat36 for celebration. I'm guessing its because you really, really, super badly wanted the deep green color.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

GAbermuda said:


> Just curious as to why you went through the major hassle to rip out lat36 for celebration. I'm guessing its because you really, really, super badly wanted the deep green color.


No, I just have a habit of changing the lawn. This is the 3rd round with various varieties.


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## GAbermuda (9 mo ago)

Austinite said:


> GAbermuda said:
> 
> 
> > Just curious as to why you went through the major hassle to rip out lat36 for celebration. I'm guessing its because you really, really, super badly wanted the deep green color.
> ...


a lawn masochist. I've heard of your kind 😄


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

GAbermuda said:


> Austinite said:
> 
> 
> > GAbermuda said:
> ...


lol. More like a lawn idiot! Every time I am half way through I have to stop and reflect. Why did I start this damn project, why!? I'm sure I will settle for something but the good news is, each one I've replaced has been better than the last.

Of course @Mightyquinn had to tell me about several other varieties that would achieve the results I am looking for. So now I am researching tifdwarf. I'll be sending my psychiatric bill to MQ.


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## GAbermuda (9 mo ago)

I'm brand new to it. Don't even have a bermuda lawn yet. Sodding in a few weeks. Tiftuf is what I'm going with. I won't be maintaining low. I don't have the time to mow every other day. I'm sacrificing color with the tiftuf but won't have to worry about drought as much. Lat 36 was my second choice and celebration #3. But that's for my needs. That's why I was curious why you ripped out the lat36 for celebration. Sounds like a dwarf hybrid is what you'd be happiest with. I could never do that as my lawn is 20k


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Sorry to have opened Pandora's box . I went down the same rabbit hole when researching a replacement for my 419. I had considered Champion Bermuda but it was crazy expensive, like $1000 for a pallet, unless you have a connection somewhere, it's going to be hard to find the ultra dwarf's for a reasonable price. TifGrand was the best compromise of the bunch from what I found.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

GAbermuda said:


> I'm brand new to it. Don't even have a bermuda lawn yet. Sodding in a few weeks. Tiftuf is what I'm going with. I won't be maintaining low. I don't have the time to mow every other day. I'm sacrificing color with the tiftuf but won't have to worry about drought as much. Lat 36 was my second choice and celebration #3. But that's for my needs. That's why I was curious why you ripped out the lat36 for celebration. Sounds like a dwarf hybrid is what you'd be happiest with. I could never do that as my lawn is 20k


20k. Wow! I dont think i could manage that either. At least not without a triplex.

Ive seen some amazing tiftuf lawns. Fertilized and watered properly and drained properly are keys to a beautiful lawn.

I honestly did not know about the celebration color till i installed it. All my research was about recovery, drought tolerance, maintenance needs etc. once it rooted and got its natural color i was just amazed. passers by would constantly ask me how my grass was so green. It make the rest of the neighborhood look lime green.

I think its a good choice for you considering you dont want to cut very low. As MQ pointed out its not supposed to be below 1/2 inch.

Also may want to read up on Plant Growth Regulators for grass such as Tnex and Primo Maxx. If frequency of cut is a concern for you, those will solve that problem quickly.

I loved the Lat 36. Amazing grass. I may do it in my backyard again when time comes to tackle that.

You can have my celebration when i yank it out! 😁


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> Sorry to have opened Pandora's box . I went down the same rabbit hole when researching a replacement for my 419. I had considered Champion Bermuda but it was crazy expensive, like $1000 for a pallet, unless you have a connection somewhere, it's going to be hard to find the ultra dwarf's for a reasonable price. TifGrand was the best compromise of the bunch from what I found.


woah. I mean, lawn is long term but $1000 a pallet is a bit much for me too. I think the most i paid ever was $450. I pickup myself to avoid delivery charges. Thats a bit discouraging but if i decided to pull the trigger, i would just do the front since its only 1000 sq ft. But if its a grand, thats minimum 2 pallets. Ugh. Certainly something to consider while in research.

Thank you again MQ. .your guidance has done wonders for me. Much appreciated.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

That price was around me here in NC, not sure what the prices are in TX? I believe Champion is actually grown there in TX.

Champion Turf Farms


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## Dono1183 (Oct 11, 2021)

@Austinite, King Ranch Turf Grass in our area sells several dwarf/greens bermuda varieties. They say call for price, but it may be a start for you.

https://krturfgrass.com/product-category/bermuda/


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## Boy_meets_lawn (Sep 27, 2020)

How's the lateral spread on these dwarfs? Could you just get one pallet and plug or sprig and have it fill in a season?


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## GAbermuda (9 mo ago)

Austinite said:


> GAbermuda said:
> 
> 
> > I'm brand new to it. Don't even have a bermuda lawn yet. Sodding in a few weeks. Tiftuf is what I'm going with. I won't be maintaining low. I don't have the time to mow every other day. I'm sacrificing color with the tiftuf but won't have to worry about drought as much. Lat 36 was my second choice and celebration #3. But that's for my needs. That's why I was curious why you ripped out the lat36 for celebration. Sounds like a dwarf hybrid is what you'd be happiest with. I could never do that as my lawn is 20k
> ...


I am definitely going to use pgr but not this season. I will do very little to the new sod other than mowing. Some light application of 10-10-10 and pre-emergent in the fall. Will treat for grubs if I get them. Plan on mowing a little over an inch this year and plan on landing around .75 next year as my HOC.......but have to learn the ropes so that plan hoc could/probably change. I have the feeling ill pick up a greensmaster down the road and keep the trucut. I've regraded the entire lot but even so I see some leveling in my future. I'm sodding 16k of tiftuf in the 20k area. Have a shady area in the back. I'll see what the tiftuf does and put in a dry creek type rock border where it starts to struggle and do fescue on the other side. That will be about a 3k area after I use up some space with landscaping and a firepit


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Boy_meets_lawn said:


> How's the lateral spread on these dwarfs? Could you just get one pallet and plug or sprig and have it fill in a season?


Yes, you could theoretically do that also. You can also find a local course that has the grass you would like and get with the Superintendent there and see if you could take the cores off their hands when they aerate. Also just know that a lot of the chemicals we use on regular Bermuda may not work so well on ultra dwarf's.


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## Boy_meets_lawn (Sep 27, 2020)

Preventative grub treatment is relatively cheap with grub ex. It only needs to go down once a season at the correct time and it has a long half life in the soil.


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