# Preemergent for sedges



## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

So I see Pennant Magnum and Specticle FLO are both labeled for suppression/residual control of sedges. Is there a significant difference in control of sedges in either of these two? Is one clearly superior to the other? Specticle is slightly more expensive per app. Any others?

This almost seems like Ford vs Chevy (Syngenta vs Bayer).


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## Ecks from Tex (Apr 26, 2018)

Specticle is not restricted to yellow nutsedge, but I am not convinced it will actually prevent purple nutsedge from seeding. I use Pennant and have no yellow sedge or killinga.


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

I don't use Specticle during the growing months, I use it in the winter. With that said, it's 100% effective at controlling Poa. I know supers who use Specticle year round and they swear by it. I remember when it first hit the market, it was touted as the "silver bullet" for Poa...we were skeptical at first, but after an app of 125 acres yielded 0 Poa plants, we were sold. We're 5 years into the program now - 125 acres each year - and you would have to spend days looking for a Poa plant, and it most likely resides where we missed our overlap. Specticle is a phenomenal product.


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

Arbornomics here uses Specticle for my yard, no weeds.


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## Jacob_S (May 22, 2018)

Man I just looked these up $$ but may be worth it for no sedge!


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

I've heard specticle is an insanely good preem. Just trying to justify the cost. Pennant magnum is in the same ballpark.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

kur1j said:


> I've heard specticle is an insanely good preem. Just trying to justify the cost. Pennant magnum is in the same ballpark.


Specticle seems like a really good pre-em since nothing is known to be resistant to it yet. However, are sedges that bad that you need a pre-em for it? I sprayed all mine out last year with post-em and haven't had any repeat appearances since.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@Movingshrub They are a PITA for me for whatever reason. I spend more time playing wac-o-mole with them than anything. Spray and kill all i see, then a week later find more I didn't hit. I'm about to just broadcast spray carfentrazone + certainty.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

kur1j said:


> @Movingshrub They are a PITA for me for whatever reason. I spend more time playing wac-o-mole with them than anything. Spray and kill all i see, then a week later find more I didn't hit. I'm about to just broadcast spray carfentrazone + certainty.


Makes sense. If you deplete all that and still have an issue, I would think a broadcast of Dismiss or Monument would be worth considering. I recall TheGrassFactor mentioning in his sedge control video about dismiss, at certain rates, having a pre-em impact.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@Movingshrub well i was trying to avoid a broadcast of sulfentrazone while it's hot outside.

Don't want to stress my lawn out even more with what i think is some fungus. Testing stuff out atm.

Ill get them all eventually. Bastards are on the clock.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

One method I use to maintain sanity in a Purple Nutsedge infested area is to spray Dismiss+an SU at 4 oz 3 times 30 days apart before temps go above 85. My time to do that is between January and May. If I missed that, as in someone who signed on with me after March. Program changes to Carfentrazone+an SU. Spot spraying turns into an eye test. If you broadcast spray, it hits the Nutsedge that is still a skinny little spear coming out of the ground. If it is hot, no Dismiss. Switch to Carfentrazone.


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## jonthepain (May 5, 2018)

kur1j said:


> Ill get them all eventually. Bastards are on the clock.


Post of the Week


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> One method I use to maintain sanity in a Purple Nutsedge infested area is to spray Dismiss+an SU at 4 oz 3 times 30 days apart before temps go above 85. My time to do that is between January and May.


@kur1j when was our time to do that it in HSV this year? Between May 1st and May 2nd?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

That January-May window can be out for me as well. Some years in Hawaii, it never goes below 80. However, the weeds are not nearly as bad as when it rains every week, no, make that almost every day for years on end. I have had to put up with that from 2011-2017. This is the first year I am seeing warm weather and sun in almost 10 years.


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## raldridge2315 (Jul 1, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> > One method I use to maintain sanity in a Purple Nutsedge infested area is to spray Dismiss+an SU at 4 oz 3 times 30 days apart before temps go above 85. My time to do that is between January and May.
> ...


If the temps are high, I would go ahead and spray. I vote for grass that is yellowed and set back for a couple of weeks over an infestation of nutgrass.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Any group buys for Spectacle ???


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Tellycoleman said:


> Any group buys for Spectacle ???


Should we start one? Smallest unit is 18 oz which will treat an acre twice at 9 oz. On low mowed Bermuda, safe rates, according to my golf friends is 3 oz applied twice. Another thing my golf friends are telling me is that you need to have control over the water after this is applied. To minimize root pruning, it is best to have the application very lightly watered in and then the area dried back out for several days after. Spraying this right before a heavy rain or else going overboard on the watering in will cause severe damage to the roots of the turf.


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## kur1j (Jul 2, 2017)

@Greendoc Well next year i'll know! it's in the 90s every day here unless it rains. I took your advice and i got some carfentrazone and (sedgehammer and some certainty). I believe you said yellow gets the certainty and purple gets the sedgehammer. Got it a few weeks ago and plan on applying it this week. No reason for waiting other than having enough sedge to make it worth mixing up. The anger in me is real when I spray and think I got all of them and then 3 days later one pops up all nice and green :angry:. I ended up "accidentally" overspraying 3-6 feet of sulfentrazons back in april on one of my neighbors yard because they can't be bothered to mow but once every 2+ weeks and their yard was completely full of sedges.

@Movingshrub It felt like it went from "humid cold" to rainy spring to hot as hell.


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> Tellycoleman said:
> 
> 
> > Any group buys for Spectacle ???
> ...


I do 6oz/A once on 419 and Celebration @ .5". This crap will move if irrigated too much (heavy rain typically), and may kill areas (I've only seen this on collars mowed @ .250" that received a heavy wash following app.) Never heard of "root pruning" and I've never had to undergo drydowns following apps - 625 acres applied.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Greendoc said:


> Tellycoleman said:
> 
> 
> > Any group buys for Spectacle ???
> ...


Oooh, I may be in on this. I'm contemplating using Simazine for my winter pre-m though and it's cheap. Prodiamine works really well for crabgrass, but I still fight poa, henbit and hairy bittercress along with some larger broadleaf weeds every Spring. Foxtail gets root pruned hard, but until it gets hot, it doesn't have any issues surviving and throwing down more seed. I'm also thinking about rotation and finding a pre-m that isn't a root pruner.


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## deeevo (Jun 18, 2018)

I took the plunge this spring and bought Pennant Magnum for my sedge and kyllinga problem. I knew a gallon would last a long time and I have always battled sedge and kyllinga in my backyard in the summer. I applied an app in Feb and in May and I have only had to spot spray a few area's that stay wet in the Florida summer but I can say I am very please with the results.


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## Jacob_S (May 22, 2018)

I have been thinking about this the past few days and figured I'd just tag on and add my question in this thread rather than start a new one.

If I were to invest in one of these Pre-e that controls this devil weed known as nutsedge, is it safe/wise to mix two different pre-e? I already have a jug of Dimension that I will be making another app of end of Sept/ beginning of Oct. Would mixing the two or applying both at close interval cause harm?


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## deeevo (Jun 18, 2018)

Jacob_S said:


> I have been thinking about this the past few days and figured I'd just tag on and add my question in this thread rather than start a new one.
> 
> If I were to invest in one of these Pre-e that controls this devil weed known as nutsedge, is it safe/wise to mix two different pre-e? I already have a jug of Dimension that I will be making another app of end of Sept/ beginning of Oct. Would mixing the two or applying both at close interval cause harm?


I can not see why you couldn't tank mix these. I tank mixed Pennant Magnum and Gallery this spring with excellent results.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Jacob_S said:


> I have been thinking about this the past few days and figured I'd just tag on and add my question in this thread rather than start a new one.
> 
> If I were to invest in one of these Pre-e that controls this devil weed known as nutsedge, is it safe/wise to mix two different pre-e? I already have a jug of Dimension that I will be making another app of end of Sept/ beginning of Oct. Would mixing the two or applying both at close interval cause harm?


I have a feeling I'm the minority on this one. For full disclosure, I haven't used pennant. However, looking at the controlled weeds - it doesn't do as well as prodiamine or dithiopyr at controlling crabgrass or goosegrass, which is what I *think* most people in warm season are trying to control. I understand sedges can be challenging, I just feel like there are a lot of really good post-ems that will control sedges, that also can be used for other applications, where the pennant product seems like it's being used specifically to hopefully control sedges. If you don't get 100% prevention of sedge, then I assume you're still going to be buying and using a post-em for the sedges anyways. With that all being said, I think the pennant product does have its applications - your call. Good luck either way.


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## Ecks from Tex (Apr 26, 2018)

Jacob_S said:


> I have been thinking about this the past few days and figured I'd just tag on and add my question in this thread rather than start a new one.
> 
> If I were to invest in one of these Pre-e that controls this devil weed known as nutsedge, is it safe/wise to mix two different pre-e? I already have a jug of Dimension that I will be making another app of end of Sept/ beginning of Oct. Would mixing the two or applying both at close interval cause harm?


You could do it but you'd be better off staggering the applications.


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## Jacob_S (May 22, 2018)

Thanks guys, this was my thoughts but figured I ask anyway.
@Movingshrub in the past I have just used sedgehammer, but this year for whatever reason I have a bad infestation. I sprayed sedgehammer a few weeks ago thinking I got them all but they are back with a vengeance. On top of that I have a bunch of dead patches from the spraying. So if I can lay down a pre that will eliminate them or even greatly suppress to easily spot spray a few patches then it is worth it to me.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Jacob_S said:


> Thanks guys, this was my thoughts but figured I ask anyway.
> @Movingshrub in the past I have just used sedgehammer, but this year for whatever reason I have a bad infestation. I sprayed sedgehammer a few weeks ago thinking I got them all but they are back with a vengeance. On top of that I have a bunch of dead patches from the spraying. So if I can lay down a pre that will eliminate them or even greatly suppress to easily spot spray a few patches then it is worth it to me.


Understood.

I've used sedge hammer before and didn't get the results I wanted. The advantage is that it's friendly with most warm season turf-types. 
I didn't like that I would buy one packet, spray, end up with 3/4 of a gallon left that was going to go bad before I needed to spray again. Granted, this was all before I had a gram scale, so maybe I would have been better off taking one of the small packets and splitting it into half or third, and then mixing up that amount of product with a reduced amount of water.

I've used certainty with generally good results when spraying for sedges in my and my neighbors yard (both Bermuda). I'm interested in both katana and monument as well. Katana is cheaper per app than Certainty but doesn't play well with all turf-types. Monument is more expensive than Katana and Certainty but it will absolutely smoke poa annua as well, so it all depends on what you're trying to address.

The idea of alternating or staggering apps is a good consideration if you can time the pre-em apps with the respective weeds that the pre-em is best at controlling. If you don't go t hat route, you can alternate just to help avoid weed resistance.

Check out page 98 of this for each sedge control herbicide and their effectiveness and page 72 for pre-em's and their effectiveness on different weeds
http://media.clemson.edu/public/turfgrass/2017%20Pest%20Management/2017%20Pest%20Control%20Recommendations.pdf


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

Just shot illustrating the control Specticle has on poa.

Right side treated / left untreated - weed: poa

Specticle flo @ 6oz/A


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## dtillman5 (Jul 20, 2017)

Tellycoleman said:


> Any group buys for Spectacle ???


I'd be interested, for my 7600 sq ft I'd only need 1.05 total oz. a season based on @viva_oldtrafford 6oz/A, once a year, rate, if my math is correct.


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

Hands down the best product I've found for sedges/kyllinga is Sulfentrazone 4l Select (8oz/A with 60 gpa - nutsedge may require 2 apps).

This is 48 hours post application with daytime temps in the mid 90's. Did not ding the turf (419) at all.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

viva_oldtrafford said:


> Hands down the best product I've found for sedges/kyllinga is Sulfentrazone 4l Select (8oz/A with 60 gpa - nutsedge may require 2 apps).
> This is 48 hours post application with daytime temps in the mid 90's. Did not ding the turf (419) at all.


How is that possible?!

I have been told just looking at a bottle of Dismiss during hot weather causes turf damage.


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## Jacob_S (May 22, 2018)

viva_oldtrafford said:


> Hands down the best product I've found for sedges/kyllinga is Sulfentrazone 4l Select (8oz/A with 60 gpa - nutsedge may require 2 apps).
> 
> This is 48 hours post application with daytime temps in the mid 90's. Did not ding the turf (419) at all.


Good to know! Thanks, this kind of makes me say screw it to the pre(just stick to what I'm doing there) and just handle up on any that pops up, as would be less costly in the end.


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## dtillman5 (Jul 20, 2017)

viva_oldtrafford said:


> Just shot illustrating the control Specticle has on poa.
> 
> Right side treated / left untreated - weed: poa
> 
> Specticle flo @ 6oz/A


That sir is impressive poa control!


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> viva_oldtrafford said:
> 
> 
> > Hands down the best product I've found for sedges/kyllinga is Sulfentrazone 4l Select (8oz/A with 60 gpa - nutsedge may require 2 apps).
> ...


Luckily for me, the stories I hear on here about not applying this product during heat do not apply to my turf. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but look at my 419 @ .500" hoc (hell, even .250") as a reminder that not everything is black and white when it comes to turf management.


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

dtillman5 said:


> viva_oldtrafford said:
> 
> 
> > Just shot illustrating the control Specticle has on poa.
> ...


Thank you! When it comes to Poa control, Specticle Flo has no competition.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Plus dismiss, if blanket applied, I *think* can have a pre-em effect so may as well so something to consider.



viva_oldtrafford said:


> Thank you! When it comes to Poa control, Specticle Flo has no competition.


I know it's a post-em, but Monument, since it persists in the soil, seems to do pretty well


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

viva_oldtrafford said:


> Hands down the best product I've found for sedges/kyllinga is Sulfentrazone 4l Select (8oz/A with 60 gpa - nutsedge may require 2 apps).
> 
> This is 48 hours post application with daytime temps in the mid 90's. Did not ding the turf (419) at all.


The label states that alkaline soils and high pH irrigation water increase the damage potential. I'm guessing that your course is on more Sandy soil with an acidic or neutral pH irrigation water.


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

Spammage said:


> viva_oldtrafford said:
> 
> 
> > Hands down the best product I've found for sedges/kyllinga is Sulfentrazone 4l Select (8oz/A with 60 gpa - nutsedge may require 2 apps).
> ...


In terms of texture, I have it all - clayey stuff, silty stuff, sandy stuff - still, no damage. I can't remember the last time I saw a soil report with a pH over 7 anywhere on my property.


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## trc (Jun 23, 2017)

Spammage said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> > Tellycoleman said:
> ...


Similar issues with my winter Prodiamine pre-m. Nothing worse than poa and henbit in an otherwise finely manicured dormant lawn. Would be interested in alternate strategies that are working for others including spectacle group buy.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Summer pre-em: prodiamine
Winter pre-emrodiamine,simazine, and monument


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## tnlynch81 (Jun 29, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> Summer pre-em: prodiamine
> Winter pre-emrodiamine,simazine, and monument


Do you combine your winter pre-em in one app or spread them out? If spread out, what does your schedule look like?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

tnlynch81 said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> > Summer pre-em: prodiamine
> ...


Last year I did three separate apps just to reduce the chance of missing one spot, but my plan this year is probably just one app. If you want to check out different methods of poa control, Univ of TN has a poa annua field
Day presentation where they compared results of different chemical combos.


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## Adrian82 (Jun 5, 2017)

kur1j said:


> @Movingshrub well i was trying to avoid a broadcast of sulfentrazone while it's hot outside.
> 
> Don't want to stress my lawn out even more with what i think is some fungus. Testing stuff out atm.
> 
> Ill get them all eventually. Bastards are on the clock.


 I think I am going to stress my back yard with some Blindside where yellow sedge is making a comeback. They were pretty much eradicated in late May. I cannot coexist with yellow nutsedge.


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