# Looking for component insight



## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

So after G-man gave me some great advice, I've been obsessively reading the irrigation tutorials page and I'm learning that installing a true irrigation is really hard work, but not as complicated as it initially seems. I'm going to spend the winter planning and scheming how I can make this happen in due time. The area I need some direction is are there any specific resources/brands that you all look at when it comes to specific components. I really like hunter pro spray bodies and mp rotator heads. The rachio controller looks like the real deal. When it comes to anti siphoning devices and valves, I'm not sure what brands/types to be looking at. Any insight into these and any other components I'm overlooking would be greatly appreciated!

As well as any online sources to source the parts that you had positive experiences with.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

You'll be happy with the pro sprays and mp rotators. As for backflow/anti siphon valves you need to check with your city codes. They might specify one over the other.


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

Good idea, knowing our city they will require a backflow device. I actually ordered 5 spry bodies and heads,!im going to be making spike sprinklers out of them to just experiment and see how they work and operate.


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

I like the MP Rotators. :thumbup:

I did a DIY setup using a hose end timer, poly pipes and poly quick connects - http://www.homedepot.com/s/blu-lock?NCNI-5 (didn't have budget for a full blown system at the time). I was able to chain 3 MP Rotators in a row. So, using a 4 end hose timer, I could potentially setup 12 MP Rotators in the lawn.

https://youtu.be/WJDCvR6ZWlM


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

ericgautier said:


> I like the MP Rotators. :thumbup:
> 
> I did a DIY setup using a hose end timer, poly pipes and poly quick connects - http://www.homedepot.com/s/blu-lock?NCNI-5 (didn't have budget for a full blown system at the time). I was able to chain 3 MP Rotators in a row. So, using a 4 end hose timer, I could potentially setup 12 MP Rotators in the lawn.


I'm actually scheming to how I could build a 4-6 zone system off a hose bib put the valve box right next to the bib and run 6 valves with poly to each zone, then inside my basement where the bib comes out of the house I have power so I could set a rachio right inside the basement powering the valves. I have 7.5 GPM coming out of the bib and most of the mp rotator seem to use .4ish-.8ish GPM. So hypothetically I could run 5-6 heads per zone giving me 24-36 heads covering 8000k, which I think would give me pretty good coverage. Still have to make sure the head to head coverage is there.

Essentially this gives me the awesomeness of the rachio without having 2 timers hanging off each hose bib on the outside of my house.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

A backlfow device of some sort will almost certainly be required. I think what J_nick was saying is your water provider may require a specific type - for instance an RPZ or a double check device.

I designed my MP Rotator system (w/Rachio controller :thumbup: ) using the information at irrigationtutorials.com, but paid a contractor to install it. I really like the MPR's, and they were a good fit for my lawn.

Note that Hunter recommends using the PRS40 pressure regulated Pro-Spray bodies with MP Rotators.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm biased to MP rotators too. Their precipiatation rate is low that allows more of the water to be absorbed by the soil.

I dont like dealing with anti siphoning valves, since you have to take care of them being at the heights point.

RPZ (reduce pressure zone) is the gold standard for anti backflow device and should be accepted by most cities; but it is a bit more expensive.
Pressure Vaccum Breaker (PVB) is the second option. You do have to be concern with it being at the highest point, but it is fairly easy to accomplish.

I buy most of the stuff at www.sprinklerwarehouse.com . I do look for a local place to buy stuff in case I need something right away.

Once you get your plan of pipes and head locations on a map around your house, if you want to post it and we could give you feedback.


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

Ware said:


> A backlfow device of some sort will almost certainly be required. I think what J_nick was saying is your water provider may require a specific type - for instance an RPZ or a double check device.
> 
> I designed my MP Rotator system (w/Rachio controller :thumbup: ) using the information at irrigationtutorials.com, but paid a contractor to install it. I really like the MPR's, and they were a good fit for my lawn.
> 
> Note that Hunter recommends using the PRS40 pressure regulated Pro-Spray bodies with MP Rotators.


I actually read through your post last night, very helpful. May I ask how many Sq ft you have, more so I can reference it against my yard, I believe I count 54 heads in your yard.

What software did you use to draw that up?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Eric said:


> I'm actually scheming to how I could build a 4-6 zone system off a hose bib put the valve box right next to the bib and run 6 valves with poly to each zone, then inside my basement where the bib comes out of the house I have power so I could set a rachio right inside the basement powering the valves. I have 7.5 GPM coming out of the bib and *most of the mp rotator seem to use .4ish-.8ish GPM*. So hypothetically I could run 5-6 heads per zone giving me 24-36 heads covering 8000k, which I think would give me pretty good coverage. Still have to make sure the head to head coverage is there.
> 
> Essentially this gives me the awesomeness of the rachio without having 2 timers hanging off each hose bib on the outside of my house.


Just don't confuse precipitation rate (in/hr) with GPM - a 360° MP2000 flows more like 1.48 GPM at 40psi.

I won't say it can't be done, but I think it would be tedious to irrigate an 8k lawn with 7.5 GPM. Getting 1" of irrigation on 8k ft2 requires nearly 5,000 gallons of water. At 7.5 GPM, that would take over 11 hours of runtime, and that's if the system was 100% efficient - meaning you were using the full 7.5 GPM for every zone and minute of runtime. I promise I'm not trying to discourage you - just throwing some ideas out there for you to consider. :thumbup:

For instance, I almost wish I would have combined zones 2 & 3 on my plan. I separated them because the MP side strip nozzles have a slightly higher precipitation rate, but in reality it probably doesn't matter much. What it costs me is run time - if it were one zone, I could put down 1" of irrigation on that total area in 2.5 hours (at the MPR precipitation rate of 0.4 in/hr), but instead it takes more like 5 hours because Rachio won't run two zones at one time. Granted, there are some things I could do to get around that, and with flex scheduling the system never tries to put down 1" of irrigation at a time, but you get the idea. :thumbup:



Eric said:


> I actually read through your post last night, very helpful. May I ask how many Sq ft you have, more so I can reference it against my yard, I believe I count 54 heads in your yard.
> 
> What software did you use to draw that up?


I'm currently irrigating about 7k, but I designed the system to account for a future sidewalk (on the left side of the drawing). It will be more like 6k when it gets built.

I used AutoCAD for my drawing.


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

Not discouraged! I need constructive feedback to make the best decision possible. You all know more than me, that's why I'm here.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Once you figure out a head count and associated flows you will be able to better judge how much flow you will want/need.

Keep the questions coming as you have them. :thumbup:


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Ware said:


> For instance, I almost wish I would have combined zones 2 & 3 on my plan...
> 
> ...because Rachio won't run two zones at one time.


Side topic. You can fire both of the zone if you place both cables into the same rachio i/o in the controller. Rachio documentation says it could handle the load of two valves in a single "zone".


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

g-man said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> > For instance, I almost wish I would have combined zones 2 & 3 on my plan...
> ...


I was actually just reading about that. At a minimum, I would definitely like to fire off my two drip zones at the same time, so I will be giving this a try. One of the responses below suggest that if the system doesn't have a master valve or pump start relay, the Rachio might have enough power to open 3 valves at once. :thumbup:

It's also very cool to see that a software change is on their roadmap. :thumbup:


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Ware said:


> It's also very cool to see that a software change is on their roadmap. :thumbup:


They almost do this today. If you turn on the feature to avoid water hammer, it will turn two valves on at once for a short duration.

You could also add a relay if you wanted to trigger more zones at once using a separate power supply.


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

Well after making some calls today and doing some estimating tonight, I've got lots to think about. So on my 2 exterior hose bins I pull 8 GPM out of one and 7 GPM out of the other. With both running simultaneously they drop to 6 and 5.5. The pressure at the bibs is 70 PSI. Inside I have 1" supply line going into a 5/8" meter. By the calculations on the hunter website that gives me a working pressure of 50 PSI at 11 GPM. Not as high as I hoped.

After talking to the city, they do require an backflow device which needs to be installed by a licensed plumber and if I choose to add a second meter it needs to be installed by that same plumber as well. Along with yearly inspections of the back flow device at $100 a pop and a $4/month fee for the additional meter. I can see the benefit of the second meter, I'm just not sure if the additional cost of having to hire someone to install the back flow and the upkeep with it warrants the increase in GPM. As it is kind of minimal. The city also mentioned to me that everything is designed with a goal to maintain a 9 GPM flow, sounds like they kinda control it more than most realize.

My thoughts are kinda thinking installing a "real" system that runs off the hose bibs. If I have both bibs running different zones at the same time it would essentially be the same flow rate as running off the main water line.

Reluctantly I spent some time on the other site tonight reading some posts from a year ago or so where guys were listing some ideas of how to basically mimic the rainbird eti system only using "real" components to make it happen(i.e. Valve boxes, controllers, hunter anti sip valves, using I believe 1" poly for the pipes, and mp rotators and pro40 prs bodies).

I'm really in no hurry and I have time to bounce all these ideas around in my head. The one obstacle I can think of right now is running wire to the second valve box on the opppsite side of the house. Some have used the cheaper rainbird 4 valve controller with success, but the rachio still peaks my interest and I'm willing to splurge on it to gain the modern efficiencies it creates.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Eric said:


> My thoughts are kinda thinking installing a "real" system that runs off the hose bibs. If I have both bibs running different zones at the same time it would essentially be the same flow rate as running off the main water line.
> 
> Reluctantly I spent some time on the other site tonight reading some posts from a year ago or so where guys were listing some ideas of how to basically mimic the rainbird eti system only using "real" components to make it happen(i.e. Valve boxes, controllers, hunter anti sip valves, using I believe 1" poly for the pipes, and mp rotators and pro40 prs bodies).
> 
> I'm really in no hurry and I have time to bounce all these ideas around in my head. The one obstacle I can think of right now is running wire to the second valve box on the opppsite side of the house. Some have used the cheaper rainbird 4 valve controller with success, but the rachio still peaks my interest and I'm willing to splurge on it to gain the modern efficiencies it creates.


A second meter helps if you get your sewer bill as a proportion of water used. The second meter is counted against the sewer bill. Most quote a ROI of 2 years.

You can create a manifold to connect the valves and feed the manifold with a short hose from the bib. Design the system to no exceed the 7GPM you got from your bibs. The valves are turned on/off via the controller (Rachio). Most controllers will no run two zones at once.

Nothing wrong with going to the other site. Join if you want too. There are great guys there that will help you and a ton of old post with information. Just dont mention this forum or post anything along those lines since you might get banned. Ericgautier did a real system (poly pipes) and connects it via hose bib. It is a way to avoid the backflow since bib connections are normally excluded.

The wire is buried around the house or thru the basement (if you have one).


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

I did the math and I believe breakeven on the second meter just to cover the second meter fee is 2000 cu ft per year, pretty easy to do. I consider the install cost which is $325 plus labor a pretty decent deal, so I could easily see the payback easily an2 year deal.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

g-man said:


> ...Nothing wrong with going to the other site. Join if you want too. There are great guys there that will help you and a ton of old post with information. Just dont mention this forum or post anything along those lines since you might get banned...


+1, we allow dual citizenship. :thumbup:

I go back and reference some of my old posts there from time to time. Many of us generated a lot of great content there over the years.


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

Ware said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > ...Nothing wrong with going to the other site. Join if you want too. There are great guys there that will help you and a ton of old post with information. Just dont mention this forum or post anything along those lines since you might get banned...
> ...


Good to know, I knew there was tension, just treading lightly as I don't want to say or do the wrong thing!!

Funny thing is I was reading many post by you all last night, very informative!


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