# At what point can you switch from overseeding every year?



## Rolling Hills (Jul 21, 2021)

Topic is pretty self explanatory. At what point can you switch from annual overseeding to a fall nitrogen blitz? I'm on my second year overseeding my 80% TTTF and 20% KBG and PRG mix. When do you know you're finished overseeding and can focus on stenthening and filling in the existing turf? I know that's trickier with TTTF. I just want to know I'm not cursed to a perpetual overseed every fall until I shed my mortal coil because it is fracken exhausting.


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## BBLOCK (Jun 8, 2020)

How thick is your lawn. If it's got lots of bare spots then likely needs seed. If it's fairly thick then push that bluegrass to fill in more with nitrogen

You likely will need to overseed every second or third year just to keep a thick stand of turf. There will likely always be some die off.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Unless it's mostly KBG in your lawn you will have to over seed when needed. Moving forward only over seed with KBG so hopefully you can add more to your lawn to stop the never ending over seed


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

From year one. I've never overseeded my front lawn. HOA common areas, corporate buildings, schools, parks, fast food rest, etc are never overseeded, dethatched, and some are not even irrigated.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

without seeing pics of your lawn its hard to give an answer but this year was the first year I've done an aerate/overseed for my lawn in 3-4 years. And only reason I did it was because I had a lot of armyworm and grub damage. As long as it's not real thin, just feed it in the Fall and it will thicken back up.

The only thing I might slightly disagree with from above is overseeding with KBG only. I think you will find it difficult to get KBG to establish from an over seed. It just takes so long to establish that the existing TTTF usually wins out. Now if you want to throw some KBG down then go for it and hope for the best but just don't get your hopes up.


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## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

The KBG will germinate fine in an overseed. Just cut it as low as possible, throw the seed down, dont fertilize. Just keep mowing it low for like 2 or 3 weeks and it will do fine. Heck you might even get away with less watering with the shade coverage.

Think about this for a second right? How does different grasses grow in the wild? No one is going to go around and mowing or kill off the taller existing grasses so new ones can grow. Over here along the highways of Long Island NY, they city simply mulches 5ft tall grasses and a month later, everything grows right back. We simply overthink and baby our grasses too much.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I disagree that you can just throw KBG in an overseed and get it to survive. It will likely germinate, but survival i don't think so.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

The odds are against you if you just throw down KBG seed into a well established lawn. It is possible if you start early on the plan and your lawn is thin to begin with.


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## Rolling Hills (Jul 21, 2021)

situman said:


> ...We simply overthink and baby our grasses too much.


This is the truth. There's so much "conventional" wisdom on this forum that I've srugged off and have never run into issues. I.e. the need to always cover my seed with peat moss, needing to top dress my entire lawn, rolling the seed into the soil. I've never done these steps faithfully and have always come out on top with my lawn when overseeding


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

My overseed need has diminished over time. Now it's pretty much just problem areas, shade, or where damage occurs. But I've done a lot of overseeding in previous years. I don't have a single area that hasn't been renovated or overseeded at least once, or even both...let alone areas where I've overseeded multiple times. It has all been well worth it, as the original lawn was primarily common Fine Fescue and KBG cultivars. Some areas have been killed and renovated. Others were sod cut or scraped and then renovated without killing. And others simply overseeded multiple times but never renovated. You'll see the return soon.

I never overseeded the same areas in consecutive years though, generally. Just didn't have to.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

You can get blue grass to germinate in your existing lawn if you do it right. No fertilizer during the summer if any a little organic if you want early summer. Cut one notch lower then de thatch. Lower cut again and de thatch again. You really want to abuse and shock your existing grass. Drop your KBG seed , fungicide and peat moss NO fertilizer. Keep it moist. You want it to look like this.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@M32075 At that point, all you need is gly to kill the few green patches.


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## Rolling Hills (Jul 21, 2021)

In hindsight I made this post while I was in the midst of a grueling 3 day overseed process. My lawn is very demanding, both physically and mentally, dealing with the oddly shaped tracts of land and hills sloping on multiple planes in mostly full sun conditions. It's an absolute beat down and I felt pretty burnt out near the end of it. I told my wife this was the last time I overseed like this because it's just too much to handle annually. I'm thinking I take next year off and focus on strengthening the current turf and working on a better weed prevention method. Or switch to spot overseeding sections of the lawn each year to lighten the workload.


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## cahood (Aug 26, 2021)

It really depends,

For example here in hotlanta fescue can't hold up to the heat so overseeing is a yearly requirement based on my experience.

If you live further north I imagine you wouldn't have to Overseed as often.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

g-man said:


> @M32075 At that point, all you need is gly to kill the few green patches.


Shockingly the tan grass bounced back with the constant watering go figure


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## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

Rolling Hills said:


> In hindsight I made this post while I was in the midst of a grueling 3 day overseed process. My lawn is very demanding, both physically and mentally, dealing with the oddly shaped tracts of land and hills sloping on multiple planes in mostly full sun conditions. It's an absolute beat down and I felt pretty burnt out near the end of it. I told my wife this was the last time I overseed like this because it's just too much to handle annually. I'm thinking I take next year off and focus on strengthening the current turf and working on a better weed prevention method. Or switch to spot overseeding sections of the lawn each year to lighten the workload.


You have TTTF. Overseeding is a constant, from fungus, drought, natural die off, insects and etc.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Rolling Hills said:


> In hindsight I made this post while I was in the midst of a grueling 3 day overseed process. My lawn is very demanding, both physically and mentally, dealing with the oddly shaped tracts of land and hills sloping on multiple planes in mostly full sun conditions. It's an absolute beat down and I felt pretty burnt out near the end of it. I told my wife this was the last time I overseed like this because it's just too much to handle annually. I'm thinking I take next year off and focus on strengthening the current turf and working on a better weed prevention method. Or switch to spot overseeding sections of the lawn each year to lighten the workload.


I feel your pain I like the new game plan no reason to kill yourself after all it's only grass


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

M32075 said:


> You can get blue grass to germinate in your existing lawn if you do it right. No fertilizer during the summer if any a little organic if you want early summer. Cut one notch lower then de thatch. Lower cut again and de thatch again. You really want to abuse and shock your existing grass. Drop your KBG seed , fungicide and peat moss NO fertilizer. Keep it moist. You want it to look like this.


That looks like mine during most of the overseeds I've done, too. These days, I rarely have to get that aggressive anymore as I'm just touching up.


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## Butter (Nov 14, 2017)

In my experience, irrigated TTTF rarely needs an overseed and unirrigated TTTF can always benefit from an overseed.
However it seems like I'm always spot seeding even in my irrigated turf.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Butter said:


> In my experience, irrigated TTTF rarely needs an overseed and unirrigated TTTF can always benefit from an overseed.
> However it seems like I'm always spot seeding even in my irrigated turf.


In my experience irrigated TTTF still needs a yearly overseed. At least in my case it does and I hate it.


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## Rolling Hills (Jul 21, 2021)

1028mountain said:


> Butter said:
> 
> 
> > In my experience, irrigated TTTF rarely needs an overseed and unirrigated TTTF can always benefit from an overseed.
> ...


Maybe it's my region but TTTF holds up so much better than other cultivars during the summer for me. I use an 80/20 blend of TTTF and KBG/PRG so I can get a little filling in action to make up for thin TTTF germination in certain areas.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Yeah I don't know what it is but I am sure it doesn't get nearly as hot and humid in NE as it does in the DMV. But army worms, disease, etc... all contribute to having to do it. In my 3 years since I bought this house and doing a complete reno I have had to over seed every year..at first I didn't mind because I chalked it up to a learning process but its become more of pain than anything else.


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## Rolling Hills (Jul 21, 2021)

1028mountain said:


> Yeah I don't know what it is but I am sure it doesn't get nearly as hot and humid in NE as it does in the DMV. But army worms, disease, etc... all contribute to having to do it. In my 3 years since I bought this house and doing a complete reno I have had to over seed every year..at first I didn't mind because I chalked it up to a learning process but its become more of pain than anything else.


Oh it gets brutally hot and humid here from late June to mid August. We had an exceptionally rainy and humid July which provided the perfect conditions for red thread to attack my juvenile TTTF. Fungus along with grubs caused the most spot damage to my new lawn.

I plan on spraying a fungicide as a preventative next year, but I'm not entirely sure which time of the season is appropriate to do that. I've never done it before.


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## Old Hickory (Aug 19, 2019)

Owning a cool-season lawn that doesn't need an annual overseeded requires a strict routine of water, fertilizer, mowing, insecticide, and fungicide. Restricted setbacks and easements, few trees, a slight slope from the home to the curb, no buried building materials or dead tree roots and stumps, and no dog pee. Other than that...who needs to overseed?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

1028mountain said:


> Yeah I don't know what it is but I am sure it doesn't get nearly as hot and humid in NE as it does in the DMV.


Less # of days 90 and over here. So it takes less toll on grass (until there's a drought, that is). Usually 15-45 days, usually mid June to early or mid August. By Sept, mid 70s to low 80s are common.

Generally can count on one hand the # of days over 92-93F, but I am a bit closer to the water than some are, and they might get hotter being more inland.

Dewpoints are typically 64-77F in the Summer. The highest I've seen in the state in the past couple of years was 80-81 in Fairfield county, which is technically part of the transition zone by the latest maps. Where I am, it rarely goes above a 77 dewpoint, and night lows rarely go above 71-72. 78-80 was about the highest low I've ever seen. Nighttime humidity is often over 80%, though.

Also, we are one of the few areas that should not see armyworms. I'm not looking forward to the first time it happens here. Only a matter of time. We have gypsy moths, though, which destroy trees.


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## thin_concrete (Sep 11, 2020)

Green said:


> 1028mountain said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah I don't know what it is but I am sure it doesn't get nearly as hot and humid in NE as it does in the DMV.
> ...


Ugh - I'm having enough of a time with my overseed and then the heavy rain we've had to even think about the coming onslaught of army worms that'll be here in the next 5-10 years.


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## Butter (Nov 14, 2017)

Old Hickory said:


> Owning a cool-season lawn that doesn't need an annual overseeded requires a strict routine of water, fertilizer, mowing, insecticide, and fungicide. Restricted setbacks and easements, few trees, a slight slope from the home to the curb, no buried building materials or dead tree roots and stumps, and no dog pee. Other than that...who needs to overseed?


This may be the truest thing I've ever seen! You can add in luck as well.


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## Nikegolf1224 (Apr 21, 2021)

1028mountain said:


> Butter said:
> 
> 
> > In my experience, irrigated TTTF rarely needs an overseed and unirrigated TTTF can always benefit from an overseed.
> ...


Im learning that myself. I have 9-10k sq ft and it's brutal. A few years ago I didn't care what grass I had. It was a mix of old bluegrass, fescue, creeping fescue and bentgrass. As long as it was mowed I was happy. Fast forward to now I killed most of it and replaced it with black beauty ultra. This year Im tired of seeding. Between bugs, disease, and summer there is spots that are just thin. Now I have bentgrass in spots again, creeping fescue, and poa triv. It's too much especially with no inground sprinkler system.


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

Butter said:


> In my experience, irrigated TTTF rarely needs an overseed and unirrigated TTTF can always benefit from an overseed.
> However it seems like I'm always spot seeding even in my irrigated turf.


I tend to agree with this, even in the southern tip of NC. The areas I can get regular water and get at least 1"/wk down, hang in there, That is with preventative fungicide and insecticide, though.

Areas that can't get regular water easily, or are heavily shaded in 2 directions are the spots that suffer and need seed every year. Well, and the dog urine spots. But he's the reason I even care to try and keep grass in the first place!


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## Nikegolf1224 (Apr 21, 2021)

Thankfully the rain we got in the summer kept things green. Cant complain but probably needs an overseed in some areas


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

stevehollx said:


> Butter said:
> 
> 
> > In my experience, irrigated TTTF rarely needs an overseed and unirrigated TTTF can always benefit from an overseed.
> ...


I think a lot of it depends on how established your lawn is. After 10 years or so, a well-cared-for lawn is pretty bulletproof (as far as temps go if it gets *Some* irrigation or rain, at least...not pests...that's a different story). All the people who renovate frequently never have established lawns...they really need to have a solid irrigation plan to get through the first 5 years or so.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

thin_concrete said:


> Ugh - I'm having enough of a time with my overseed and then the heavy rain we've had to even think about the coming onslaught of army worms that'll be here in the next 5-10 years.


You will probably get them before I do...the air currents carried them almost to where you are *this* year, if you listen to one of Matt Martin's recent podcasts...Ryan DeMay had them in his area, I believe. Midwest is more likely to get them than Northeast as of now, but a storm is a storm, and can bring some crazy things to different places. I didn't even know what armyworms were a year ago. I still don't really...other than that they're some type of green-colored, fat-looking moth caterpillar that eats grass and causes massive damage.


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## Rolling Hills (Jul 21, 2021)

After scalping twice, the last one done Monday scalping at 1.5" before seed down, my existing lawn is still growing rapidly and is probably at 2.5" in some areas. I guess it's a testament to the good care I gave it over the past year.

Would you suggesting I mow again or leave it be? I'm afraid of sucking up ungerminated seed if I do that, but now I'm concerned the existing turf will crowd out the new babies. It looked so shocked when I scalped I'm honestly surprised how fast it's recovering.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Old Hickory said:


> Owning a cool-season lawn that doesn't need an annual overseeded requires a strict routine of water, fertilizer, mowing, insecticide, and fungicide. Restricted setbacks and easements, few trees, a slight slope from the home to the curb, no buried building materials or dead tree roots and stumps, and no dog pee. Other than that...who needs to overseed?


Well that answers why my perpetual over seeding never ends


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