# Aeration completed! Need seed recommendation



## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

I am looking for recommendations for a quick germinating fall overseed. Currently using a Scott Thick'R Lawn seed early spring. I put down YM Double Dark 16-0-0 on Saturday. I won't fertilize until until a few weeks. I plan on going with Pennington Ultragreen Starter 22-23-4 with 5%Fe as my fertilizer to push seed growth and green up. Going with 2lbs/1,000. My parking strip has areas of heavy compaction. I am hoping to revive that area within 2-3 weeks.

Here are some recommendations I plan on going with:

1. Jonathan Green Black Beauty Ultra
2. GCI Turf Cool Blue

I prefer a Fescue/Rye/KBG blend. I don't want to go with straight KBG. Prefer bags with less than .02% weed seeds.

Any other suggestions?


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

GCI will come up in 4-6 days for me. I'd go with that. Hopefully you can still get it. You're starting late!


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

Lawn Noob said:


> GCI will come up in 4-6 days for me. I'd go with that. Hopefully you can still get it. You're starting late!


Thanks Lawn Noob! Fall just started Sept 22nd. :lol: Do you mean starting late by aearating or overseeding?


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

creediddy2021 said:


> I am looking for recommendations for a quick germinating fall overseed. Currently using a Scott Thick'R Lawn seed early spring. I put down YM Double Dark 16-0-0 on Saturday. I won't fertilize until until a few weeks. I plan on going with Pennington Ultragreen Starter 22-23-4 with 5%Fe as my fertilizer to push seed growth and green up. Going with 2lbs/1,000. My parking strip has areas of heavy compaction. I am hoping to revive that area within 2-3 weeks.
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> Here are some recommendations I plan on going with:
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I dont have a seed rec for you but I doubt you will have much time to do any research on seed varieties. Ideally your seed would have gone down weeks ago. Also, you should skip the starter fert application. You don't want to push growth of the existing grass if you are trying to overseed.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

creediddy2021 said:


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Fall started Sept. 22nd, but in the lawn care world, Fall started several weeks ago for many people, including the midwest. You aren't giving the seed much time to establish before frost sets in.

Going forward, understand that "Fall is the best time to overseed" is misleading. By the time Fall sets in, it's too late. Late Summer is a better reference.

The problem with October seeding for many places is: 1) Sun is much lower in the sky and doesn't provide as much needed sunlight to the new grass, 2) overnight temps are getting lower and could stunt the development of new grass, 3) Leaves will start falling, covering up new grass and shading it from the sun 4) generally speaking, you want to look up your average date of first frost and count back 45 days. That gives you a general timing for getting seed down and 5) seeding late doesn't give you much time, if any, to push any nitrogen on the new grass before it stops growing.

Go with PRG or TTTF. No KBG at this point. Avoid any nitrogen at seed down as it will force the existing grass to grow and choke out the new grass.

For reference, members in your area would have seeded a month ago.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

jha4aamu said:


> creediddy2021 said:
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> > I am looking for recommendations for a quick germinating fall overseed. Currently using a Scott Thick'R Lawn seed early spring. I put down YM Double Dark 16-0-0 on Saturday. I won't fertilize until until a few weeks. I plan on going with Pennington Ultragreen Starter 22-23-4 with 5%Fe as my fertilizer to push seed growth and green up. Going with 2lbs/1,000. My parking strip has areas of heavy compaction. I am hoping to revive that area within 2-3 weeks.
> ...


Thanks again for your advice


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

Harts said:


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Temps have been up and down near Chicagoland area. However, we are still in the mid 70's for all this week and going into next 2-3 weeks. We should have consistent weather all through Oct going into Nov. Getting the seed down this week will be fine. Sunlight won't be an issue.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

creediddy2021 said:


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You can still have success, no question. But you questioned when someone said it's getting late for your area. The fact is, they weren't wrong. There are more variables now then there were a month ago, is all I'm saying.

I wish you the best of luck and hope things work out well for you. :thumbup:


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

You guys are right...pushing too much nitrogen isn't the key for seeding. I am looking at going with Jonathan Green 12-18-8 as my fertilizer over the Pennington Ultragreen. I plan on picking up Ultragreen to use for next spring.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

Harts said:


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Temps have now come down. Last few weeks have been up and down, but they have been consistantly in the 80's.


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

creediddy2021 said:


> You guys are right...pushing too much nitrogen isn't the key for seeding. I am looking at going with Jonathan Green 12-18-8 as my fertilizer over the Pennington Ultragreen. I plan on picking up Ultragreen to use for next spring.


The brand of fertilizer or NPK analysis doesnt matter. You want to hold off on N in general when overseeding.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

jha4aamu said:


> creediddy2021 said:
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> > You guys are right...pushing too much nitrogen isn't the key for seeding. I am looking at going with Jonathan Green 12-18-8 as my fertilizer over the Pennington Ultragreen. I plan on picking up Ultragreen to use for next spring.
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I was looking at phosphorus. You agree?


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

creediddy2021 said:


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If you got a soil test that indicated you are low in Phos the JG would be a better fert since the Pennington doesnt contain any P.

But the general recommendation to hold off on N when overseeding still applies to both of those products.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

jha4aamu said:


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Soil test indicated I was low in all micro's and macro's. That was back in May/June when I took the soil sample. I am hoping most values are corrected or close to correction. Ph level was slightly over 7. Not sure if I will invest in another soil test until spring 2022. As of now, grass is very green and vibrant. I was hard on myself on not putting down the GrubEx in May/June to reduce grubs. There are some soft spots in my lawn as I can attest this to grubs.

My goal is to put down some humic and biochar to loosen the soil near parking strip. I will lawn dress with compost and peat moss on areas of my lawn, while overseeding with a spark of starter fert. Simple process for great results.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

Picking up a 7lbs bag of JG BBU. Should be spreading it today. I have a few bags of all purpose balanced 10-10-10. I wanted to make sure what a good app rate for overseeding would be?


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

It has been recommended in this thread not to apply any nitrogen at the time of seeding. This is also stated in the Overseed Guide. Seed has everything it needs for the first few weeks. It doesn't need any supplementation.

But you seem very determined to apply nitrogen and not take any advice given, so if you must put fertilizer down, you should do so at a low rate - 0.25lb N per K.


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## SoilSecrets (Apr 12, 2019)

You do not need to apply nitrogen at seeding. I'll re-emphasize what others have said. Application of N can cause surge growth of existing grass and prevent sunlight from reaching new seedlings.

Read your soil test to see if you have high P levels. If you have high P then you should not need a fertilizer with P.

Please read some articles from the University of Illinois extension about fertilizing lawns in your area https://web.extension.illinois.edu/lawnfaqs/fertilizing.cfm

Also Chicago area Temps will be in the 70s and a few 80s for only a week. Accuweather.com show your Temps will be in the low 60s in the next two weeks with overnight Temps in the upper 40s soon and near month end upper 30s. Even with BBU and its percentage of PRG and TTTF you may not get good germination at those lower Temps and the the roots will not have enough time to develop to withstand the winters in your area.

The advice given to you from forum members is accurate and free. I hope you take advantage. Good luck.


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## SoilSecrets (Apr 12, 2019)

"The advice given to you from forum members is accurate in this post and free. I hope you take advantage. Good luck."


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## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

Get the GCI if you can. Jonathan Green tends to contain weed seeds and other crops, GCI doesnt for what its worth.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

Harts said:


> you should do so at a low rate - 0.25lb N per K.


Thanks again Harts


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

SoilSecrets said:


> You do not need to apply nitrogen at seeding. I'll re-emphasize what others have said. Application of N can cause surge growth of existing grass and prevent sunlight from reaching new seedlings.
> 
> Read your soil test to see if you have high P levels. If you have high P then you should not need a fertilizer with P.
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I appreciate the advice. I need to fill in some dormant and compacted areas near the parking strip past the sidewalk. I am very impressed with the Scott Thick'R Lawn seed as well as Scotts Starter that shot up growth as my driveway was completely dormant 5 weeks ago. It is now very green, but needs a coat of top dressing and spot seeding.

Soil test indicated low N,P,K in May. My results show below were in May. I will get a soil test next spring. I didn't fertilize much throughout the summer. Last week I threw down the recommended 3lbs/1000 YM DD 16-0-0. So far results have been great.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

situman said:


> Get the GCI if you can. Jonathan Green tends to contain weed seeds and other crops, GCI doesnt for what its worth.


 :thumbup:


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

This is a warm October in the Midwest and Northeast. Actually, most of the Northern 2/3 of the US. There is still time to seed Perennial Rye, or even a Rye/Fescue mix, unlike in a normal year.

Only thing is, don't you want the seed down right after aerating? Usually, people do.

If you need something fast, look up the Scotts orange and white bag with coated seed. I think it's "high traffic mix", but I don't remembe for certain. It has Mountainview Seed TTPR varieties like Fastball, Slugger, Apple, etc. in it--which are the best of the best currently. You should be able to find it locally and not wait for delivery.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

Green said:


> This is a warm October in the Midwest and Northeast. Actually, most of the Northern 2/3 of the US. There is still time to seed Perennial Rye, or even a Rye/Fescue mix, unlike in a normal year.
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> Only thing is, don't you want the seed down right after aerating? Usually, people do.
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> If you need something fast, look up the Scotts orange and white bag with coated seed. I think it's "high traffic mix", but I don't remembe for certain. It has Mountainview Seed TTPR varieties like Fastball, Slugger, Apple, etc. in it--which are the best of the best currently. You should be able to find it locally and not wait for delivery.


Thanks Green! I really appreciate the advice. Yes air temps will be an average of 75-80 for the next 10-12 days. I wish I would have gotten the seed down today with a potential of 1.5" of rainfall within 24 hrs. Yes I planned on putting down the seed today, but I will get it down along with compost and peat moss by New Plant Life. Not familiar with that seed but sounds interesting!


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

So change of plans as I checked with my local Ace Hardware and the closest location was roughly 20 miles just to grab the JG BBU. Went with Scotts Thick'R as my overseed choice as I will spread tomorrow. 


I have to remove the dead material near the parking strip and compost. I watched a video of someone comparing the Scott's Thick'R Sun&Shade Mix and Thick'R Fescue Mix while getting similar results to the BBU. So far this seed has been amazing with fairly quick germination.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@creediddy2021, some people swear by that stuff...but I wonder how much actual seed is in it? (You can tell from the label percentage.)


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

Green said:


> @creediddy2021, some people swear by that stuff...but I wonder how much actual seed is in it? (You can tell from the label percentage.)


We'll I have been lazy. I was supposed to spread last Saturday, but I had a ceiling painting project that I had to get done. We have some good rain coming tomorrow. Already have about an 1" from Monday. I would guess that half of the bag is seed and the rest is improver and fert. Overall it's a very good seed and retains great qualities of a deep green fescue seed. I would love to switch over to an all TTTF. I plan on spot seeding and putting down Ironite.


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

Have you considered saving that seed for next fall? You are about 15 days from the average first frost in Chicago.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

jha4aamu said:


> Have you considered saving that seed for next fall? You are about 15 days from the average first frost in Chicago.


Yes I plan on spot seeding and not full overseeding. Right now my turf is pretty dense even after the aeration its filling in nicely. I wanted to get the Ironite down before the first rainfall.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

creediddy2021 said:


> Yes I plan on spot seeding and not full overseeding. Right now my turf is pretty dense even after the aeration its filling in nicely. I wanted to get the Ironite down before the first rainfall.


Frost does not care whether you spot seeded or fully overseeded the lawn. The fact is, it's probably too late for you to seed anything with cold temperatures coming up. You're better off saving that seed for next year.

You say your turf is pretty dense right now and it's filling in nicely. If that's the case then why the need for an overseed at all?


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

creediddy2021 said:


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The ironite is fine. You should get some greenup with that so long as your soil pH is good.

Imo, since you said its been filing in since the aeration, you should use these next few weeks to drop urea or ams every week to promote your existing turf to fill in those spots.


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

creediddy2021 said:


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You still haven't seeded after posting a week and a half ago? You were late then. I'd still take my chances and hope for the best, but I really think you dropped the ball for this year.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

lbb091919 said:


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I agree…temps will average around 60 for the next week and half. Germination can still take place with temps in the mid 60's. Nights will hover around mid 40's every night.

Yes the turf looks good. I need to spot seed in thinner areas of the lawn. Overall I'm very impressed with the YM Double Dark and Thick'R lawn seed. This is only fertilizing I've have done since June.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

jha4aamu said:


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I'm going to assume pH may be around 7 or slightly under 7. I will soil test in spring.

Yes Urea is a great idea, but I don't want to push too much growth with all of the rain we have gotten over the last 5 days. We have gotten about 2-3" of rain within the past week.

Can't wait to put down the Ironite!


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

Lawn Noob said:


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I spot spreaded seed by hand last week. So far grass blades have germinated within 5-6 days b/c of all of the rain! My parking strip is improving drastically because of the rain and seed throw down.


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

creediddy2021 said:


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Im a little confused. So you did spot seed last week or are you still waiting to do that?

Your weather will be good the next week or so for germination. Hopefully it stays that way for a few weeks so your grass has time to establish and survive past just germination.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

creediddy2021 said:


> I agree…temps will average around 60 for the next week and half. Germination can still take place with temps in the mid 60's. Nights will hover around mid 40's every night.
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> Yes the turf looks good. I need to spot seed in thinner areas of the lawn. Overall I'm very impressed with the YM Double Dark and Thick'R lawn seed. This is only fertilizing I've have done since June.


I'm not saying that the seed _won't_ germinate. I'm saying that any seed that does may, or may not, have enough time to establish before the colder temperatures come and wipe it out.

Sounds like you already spot seeded areas and are seeing germination. I hope the best for you and that everything works out before the end of the season.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

jha4aamu said:


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I spot seeded areas near the parking strip and not my entire yard. Some areas need to fill in near the side of the driveway, but I am very anal when it comes to the look. I am seeing the blue-green of the Yard Mastery iron of the Double Dark, but looking to get that darker green.

I agree with you. Weather isn't looking to bad for my area for seeding for the next 10 days. I will deal with growth in the fall, while pushing Nitrogen and focus on weed control in spring. Possibly looking to go organic with the Screamin Green for my winterizer for early November.


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

creediddy2021 said:


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Screaming green isnt a good option in Nov for multiple reasons. 1) its organic and needs heat to breakdown, which you arent getting in Nov. 2) organic N sources release N slowly over time. You want your fall N apps to be quick release. 3) Its pretty high in K which could lead to snow mold in the spring, esp w/ the snow cover you get in chicago


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

lbb091919 said:


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Yes I know what you are saying...Air and soil temp is very important role for germination, but water is the single most component for seed growth. Right now we have received about 2.5" of rain within a week.


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

creediddy2021 said:


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Water is the most important component of germination. Your seeds will grow in a wet paper towel. Getting it to survive and establish is a little different. Air and soil temps are whats going to determine whether your grass has the time to establish and be hardy enough to survive the winter months.

This growing season is winding down. And may be over for some folks. I would recommend spending some time over the winter looking at the Cool Season/Overseed/Reno guides before next spring. Lawn care can be alot of work and $$$, esp if you are caring for your lawn inefficiently.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

jha4aamu said:


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Yes I agree with you 100%. Great advice. What is your take on winterizing? Which fertilizer(s) do you use?


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

creediddy2021 said:


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I dont winterize. I think you will also find that many members here also dont. Only urea or AMS in the fall. In your climate, the additional K could lead to fungus issues in the spring.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

jha4aamu said:


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Got it...I am afraid of the burn risk and soil acidifier with AMS. Although with the amount of rain and moisture we have in the Chicagoland area I might be ok. My 16-2-3 Screamin Green has both Urea and AMS so this will be my go to sometime in Nov.


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

creediddy2021 said:


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There is minimal burn risk applying ams or urea at the appropriate fall rates. And any soil acidification would take multiple apps over time for any meaningful change(as you noted, the screaming green has urea and ams sources so its not like you are avoiding using it altogether)

Its your yard so you can obviously care for it however you like. But putting down an organic fert in Nov, in chicago is a waste of time and money.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Screamin' Green has around 50% fast release N, so it's fine. The other 50% is a combination of slow release synthetic N and organic N, and will just sit there until Spring, and maybe some of it will slowly break down into the soil and be stored before that. So, in Spring it'll be ready to help green up the lawn. You won't need fertilizer until a good 4-6 weeks after you start mowing next year.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

jha4aamu said:


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Thanks againf for the advice!


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

Green said:


> Screamin' Green has around 50% fast release N, so it's fine. The other 50% is a combination of slow release synthetic N and organic N, and will just sit there until Spring, and maybe some of it will slowly break down into the soil and be stored before that. So, in Spring it'll be ready to help green up the lawn. You won't need fertilizer until a good 4-6 weeks after you start mowing next year.


Thanks so much Green for the info!


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

Does anyone have recommendations for fall and spring weed herbicide? Looking at granular Dithiopyr or Prodiamine? Which one would you recommend for fall and/or spring?


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

creediddy2021 said:


> Does anyone have recommendations for fall and spring weed herbicide? Looking at granular Dithiopyr or Prodiamine? Which one would you recommend for fall and/or spring?


Man, you just need to read the Cool Season Lawn Guide. It has recommendations for herbicides, pre-emergents, their usages and timings, and then some.


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

creediddy2021 said:


> Does anyone have recommendations for fall and spring weed herbicide? Looking at granular Dithiopyr or Prodiamine? Which one would you recommend for fall and/or spring?


Are you trying to kill weeds or prevent them? The weeds you are targeting will also determine timing. But as stated above, check out the cool season guide.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

The two products you mentioned are pre-emergents - they prevent weeds from growing. If this what you are looking for, then either of them will work. Spring apps need to occur before soil temps rise above 55F. Fall apps should go down before soil temps dip below 70F consistently.

Spring apps prevent most common broadleaf weeds. Fall apps help control Poa Annua the following year.

If you are looking for weed killer, then you are looking for entirely different products.

Either way, this isn't something that should be on your radar right now. You can spend the off season doing the research to figure out what you need.

Cool Season Guide
Guide for Weeds


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

Harts said:


> The two products you mentioned are pre-emergents - they prevent weeds from growing. If this what you are looking for, then either of them will work. Spring apps need to occur before soil temps rise above 55F. Fall apps should go down before soil temps dip below 70F consistently.
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I used the wrong verbiage. Broadleaf control. Thanks for that info. That is exactly what I was looking for.

This is a great article and wanted to see what people were doing for broadleaf for fall and spring.

https://www.centralirrigationsupply.com/ask-the-expert-dithiopyr-vs-prodiamine/


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## chRONic (Jun 20, 2021)

Honestly I think you started too late, I would of just waited until spring. I live in the Chicagoland area as well and I overseeded in late August.


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## chRONic (Jun 20, 2021)

You should just be pushing urea now at 1-2lb per 1000 sq/ft per month until early Nov. That's all I would be focusing on right now. You are too late for anything else really.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

chRONic said:


> Honestly I think you started too late, I would of just waited until spring. I live in the Chicagoland area as well and I overseeded in late August.


I spot seeded in areas of my lawn after the core aeration. I did not fully overseed my lawn. 


This was taken 3 days ago. The lines you see are from the lawn mower wheels.

This shot was taken 1 week after the aeration.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

chRONic said:


> You should just be pushing urea now at 1-2lb per 1000 sq/ft per month until early Nov. That's all I would be focusing on right now. You are too late for anything else really.


I rather would go with a Screamin Green with 5 sources of Nitrogen along with hitting my lawn along with another app of Double Dark. That way I'm giving my lawn some iron.

Im starting to see a change with the Ironite app.


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

Love Pete's video he just posted he uses Protene 20-0-5 for his fall fertilizer.

https://youtu.be/3Rn5Ye3wKqo


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## creediddy2021 (Mar 27, 2021)

This was my lawn color on Oct 8th 2020. This was all Ironite and Milo. Trying to get back there. This is around 5:30-6:00pm. Notice my neighbors across the street as they had no chance…lol


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