# Patio pavers over clay soil



## Colin099

Hoping some hardscaping gurus could help me out here. Im trying to redo my patio. The previous owner just threw down some pavers with what appeared to be potting soil as a leveler. Yesterday, i bought 100 sq ft of new pavers, 100 sqft of brock paverbase panels, and enough sand for the 1/2 inch that goes beneath the panels. After lifting the old pavers and scraping away all the potting soil, I discovered thick clay which was very hard to level and work with. In one spot in particular, right up against the foundation of the house/existing concrete patio, the clay was super soggy(this was before it started raining). I could step on it with one foot and feel my other foot shift. No matter what I did, i couldnt compact it. Should I just return the polypropylene panels and go for a regular base or is there some way I could stabilize the clay enough for the panels?


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## adgattoni

I wouldn't do this in the rain. After it dries you might be able to get it level enough to get all your other materials in place and locked in, but you still won't have a properly compacted paver base to be honest. You would want to dig out another 4-6 inches of that soil, put down 4 or more inches of road gravel, compact it with a plate compactor (not a hand tamper), screed an inch of sand until smooth, and finally put your pavers on top.


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## hsvtoolfool

A true paver install doesn't go directly on soil. Belgard makes the best pavers. I advise following their recommendations even if you use a different paver. It's a lot of work, but the end result looks great and lasts 50 years.

I don't recommend using polysand. They're all ripoffs and don't live up to their hype. The glue doesn't stop ants or ground bees from digging in your patio. It washes away in a few years. You still get moss and weeds. So when the time comes, I'll refill my paver joints with a mixture of fine limestone dust and diatomaceous earth (to kill fireants).


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## hsvtoolfool

Sorry I missed that you mentioned the "Brock Paverbase Panel" system. The first thing I saw was that you were putting the pavers on the clay soil with no compacted gravel base. I regret that I'm not familiar with these new paver panel systems, any disadvantages they may have, or their longevity. They do appear to be much easier to install for a DIY-er compare to a traditional paver base.


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## SNOWBOB11

Not a fan of the paver panels. Best way is to excavate close to 10" from where you want the surface of the pavers to be. Fill and tamp limestone screening and screed 1" of sand then put your pavers on top. That way you end up with around 6" of limestone base.

You can also use HPB gravel where there is no need to tamp or add sand but you do need some form of a border around the base so it doesn't spread out.

Also just one thing about poly sand. There was a time when poly sand wasn't a great or reliable product. The newer poly sand is much improved though. It's easier to use only needing one soaking to set the polymers. It's also more flexible than it used to be and can fill gaps up to 4" wide. Not saying you'll never get a few areas that wash out but IMO it's worth it to get all the benefits of poly sand.


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## hsvtoolfool

@SNOWBOB11, what is "newer" poly sand? I installed my pavers 2 or 3 years ago, and the "best" poly sand at that time was worthless. What has changed in the last 2 years?


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## SNOWBOB11

hsvtoolfool said:


> @SNOWBOB11, what is "newer" poly sand? I installed my pavers 2 or 3 years ago, and the "best" poly sand at that time was worthless. What has changed in the last 2 years?


Sorry for the late reply. For some reason the @ never showed up in my notifications.

I'm talking about something like Dominator poly sand. What's great about that poly sand is it's easier to install only needing one soaking to activate, much more flexible, doesn't wash out and doesn't haze. The no haze part is great because if you choose to seal the pavers you can do so as soon as the poly sand sets without worry of sealing in the haze look on the surface.

There's other benefits too. Here's the data sheet.

There are other brands that offer the same advantages. I used this one at the end of last year with temperatures close to freezing and the results were great.

If you go to Home Depot and buy off shelf polymeric sand the results are going to be so so at best. You have to go to a landscape paver supply store and see it they have the more flexible no haze poly sand.

What brand did you use on your project?


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## hsvtoolfool

Thanks for your links! I'll look into the Dominator products. I used "Techniseal" and bought into all their YouTube hype. "This one's different! It stays put! There's no hazing! It keeps out weeds and insects!" Bah humbug. I'm just a tad cynical now after having been burned so badly. Limestone "fines" bags cost almost nothing and I'd never have to worry about hazing. Toss in some diatomaceous earth and fire-ants are toast.


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## SNOWBOB11

I know this is a old thread but yesterday I used gator G2 poly sand for the first time after hearing good things about it. I have to say I'm impressed. One watering to set it after it's been compacted into the joints and that's it. It's rain fast in 15 minutes supposedly. It dries solid but also flexible which should make it stay in place better than some poly sand. It comes in 4 colors. It's a bit expensive but it looks really good when it's set. Anyone that is looking to use poly sand I would recommend giving G2 a try.


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