# Verticut or dethatching solution



## Texas_Bermuda (Sep 1, 2018)

I have a very thin bermuda lawn and think the issues are soil quality, compaction and thatch. I'm planning to stimulate the roots and remove the thatch, apply some air8, humid acid and milk.

Question is, how should I remove the thatch and stimulate the growth? I hear a lot about verticut but I cant seem to narrow down exactly what that means. I need to remove the thatch but should I cut into the soul? can I use a overseeder with the fixed delta blades? 
Thanks!


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## Texas_Bermuda (Sep 1, 2018)

Milk=Milo
Soul=soil
Or I'm just getting spiritual about the yard.


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## Turftoe (Jun 28, 2018)

You almost got me, I was about to use google to search "benefits of using milk on my lawn" :lol:


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Turftoe said:


> You almost got me, I was about to use google to search "benefits of using milk on my lawn" :lol:


Actually "Milk, It's good for the soul" barely lost out to "Got Milk" for their slogan.


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## lucas287 (Jun 3, 2018)

HAHA! I was curious about the milk comment as well  Can't provide insight on your problem though!


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## BlakeG (Jul 17, 2018)

Verticutting is the process of cutting into the rhizomes and stolons of the plant to stimulate growth, as well as removing thatch layers. It can also be used to cut small vertical "trenches" into the soil for dropping seed if your grass is of the seeded variety. The hybrid varieties of bermuda grass (celebration, tifway419, TiffTuff, etc) are all re-propogated by this verticutting process since they produce a sterile seed head. I think it would be important to know exactly what cultivar you have to know if verticutting would help stimulate growth, i.e. seeded or hybrid bermuda? Either way, the process would help alleviate thatch. Hope this helps.

Edit: In my opinion, fixed delta blades are better than flail type blades. Depth setting is variable depending on what your end goal may be. Here is little information I was able to find.

http://sturf.lib.msu.edu/article/2011aug36a.pdf


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## Texas_Bermuda (Sep 1, 2018)

BlakeG said:


> Verticutting is the process of cutting into the rhizomes and stolons of the plant to stimulate growth, as well as removing thatch layers. It can also be used to cut small vertical "trenches" into the soil for dropping seed if your grass is of the seeded variety. The hybrid varieties of bermuda grass (celebration, tifway419, TiffTuff, etc) are all re-propogated by this verticutting process since they produce a sterile seed head. I think it would be important to know exactly what cultivar you have to know if verticutting would help stimulate growth, i.e. seeded or hybrid bermuda? Either way, the process would help alleviate thatch. Hope this helps.
> 
> Edit: In my opinion, fixed delta blades are better than flail type blades. Depth setting is variable depending on what your end goal may be. Here is little information I was able to find.
> 
> http://sturf.lib.msu.edu/article/2011aug36a.pdf


Thanks for your help. I know that I have tif 419 or tuf. So you think verticutting would help growth then? I'll research depth setting. My roots are not running deep, if that matters at all.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

What have you done to the lawn this year to this point? To me it looks like a lack of food and water.


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## Texas_Bermuda (Sep 1, 2018)

This year:
Excavated backyard. 
- Native soil high clay content. 
- landscapers put down loam, and a tiny bit (0.25" compost"). 
- Planted sod in may. Tiftuf or 419. 
Water
- watered heavily for first 6 weeks.
- probably underwatered the next 2 months.
- reverted to a 2x weekly schedule. Put down 0.75" per watering
- last 2 weeks have been deep rainfall
Fertilizer
- put down a 15, 10, 5 monthly for 3 months, 1# per 1k
- switched to 1# per 1k of 21-0-0 because grass looked weak. Thought maybe too much P in prior application.

HOC
- it was high. 4" then I'd cut to 2.5 or 3 variably. I didn't know bermuda liked to be kept short.

Here is my trouble shooting to date:
-3 weeks ago I scalped to 1.5. Then cut again at 1.5. Now cutting at 2.0.
- checked for grubs. Found only 1 across 3 spot checks.

Sun: there are spots that get 4 hours. But those areas look better in some cases even then other areas that get 6+.

I've really come to conclude that the soil is unhealthy, compacted. The roots look terrible.

It's getting late season even in central texas. We can expect lows in the 50s in mid-October. Too late to verticut? I'm stuck between wanting to verticut, milo and K this weekend, and wanting to just milo and K and pre-em.

The grass is so thin I'm worried about weeds, small signs of them now.


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## Ahab1997 (Jun 30, 2018)

When you say 1 pound per thousand, do you mean an equivalent amount of fertilizer to yield 1 pound of nitrogen per thousand square feet, or just 1 pound of fert per one thousand square feet?

Just want to clarify your program. This may (or may not) be an issue.


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## Texas_Bermuda (Sep 1, 2018)

Dangit.


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## Texas_Bermuda (Sep 1, 2018)

Ahab1997 said:


> When you say 1 pound per thousand, do you mean an equivalent amount of fertilizer to yield 1 pound of nitrogen per thousand square feet, or just 1 pound of fert per one thousand square feet?
> 
> Just want to clarify your program. This may (or may not) be an issue.


I'm excited to get out there and fertilize. Seeing as I've put down less than 1/5 the required fertilizer this year I'll fertilize, milo and K in a few weeks.

Question: should I put down pre-m if I plan to verticut with the first spring scalp, and hope the grass thickens up? Will the pre-m prevent the bermuda filling in the bare spots?


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## Ahab1997 (Jun 30, 2018)

Yeah, just to help you with your math, the 15-5-10 would be applied at 6.66 pounds per thousand. Ammonium sulfate would be about 4.75 pounds per thousand. I'd say wait for these next few days of rain to pass, and throw the fert down in the middle of next week, in between the rain events that are predicted. If you still have any 15-5-10, I'd go with that. The grass could use the extra K (potassium) to help with plant health as it stores carbohydrates for the fall and beyond.

Milo you can apply a pretty much any rate you want, ha ha. #throwerdown

I'd definitely still put down the fall application of Pre-M, even with your plans for the Spring. I would wait to verticut until we've really hit the growing season (late March or early April, depending on the weather). Any earlier and you could slow green-up just due to trauma.

Once again, not an expert. Someone else may have other thoughts on the timing of the verticut.

Best of luck!


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Those shallow roots are what is causing your lawn to look like it does and if you have under fertilized the lawn like I think you have from your responses you need to start feeding it with a balanced fertilizer like 10-10-10 or a Starter Fertilizer but if you already have some of the 15-5-10 go ahead and use that and apply it like@Ahab1997 suggested. I think it might be too late in the season for Milo, just save what you have and use it this coming Spring.

When applying your Fall Pre-M, put down enough to get you through the Winter and then come Spring it should be mostly worn off by then and you can verticut and apply another round of Pre-M. Personally I wouldn't worry about verticutting next Spring as your lawn is still relatively thin and you could actually do more harm than good. The Pre-M shouldn't really effect the bermuda from filling in.


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## Texas_Bermuda (Sep 1, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> Those shallow roots are what is causing your lawn to look like it does and if you have under fertilized the lawn like I think you have from your responses you need to start feeding it with a balanced fertilizer like 10-10-10 or a Starter Fertilizer but if you already have some of the 15-5-10 go ahead and use that and apply it [email protected] suggested. I think it might be too late in the season for Milo, just save what you have and use it this coming Spring.
> 
> When applying your Fall Pre-M, put down enough to get you through the Winter and then come Spring it should be mostly worn off by then and you can verticut and apply another round of Pre-M. Personally I wouldn't worry about verticutting next Spring as your lawn is still relatively thin and you could actually do more harm than good. The Pre-M shouldn't really effect the bermuda from filling in.


Thanks @Mightyquinn. Would you recommend I put down a balanced fertilizer like 10-10-10 now (1# N per 1k) followed in a month 1# of K per 1k, before we are likely to get a frost? The grass here in Austin may go into dormancy mid/late October, so that K would be going on a bit late I think. Thanks!


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Texas_Bermuda said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> > Those shallow roots are what is causing your lawn to look like it does and if you have under fertilized the lawn like I think you have from your responses you need to start feeding it with a balanced fertilizer like 10-10-10 or a Starter Fertilizer but if you already have some of the 15-5-10 go ahead and use that and apply it [email protected] suggested. I think it might be too late in the season for Milo, just save what you have and use it this coming Spring.
> ...


If you apply 1lb of N with the 10-10-10 you will also be applying 1lb of P & K along with it, so you would be good to go there but if you can find some SOP(Sulfate of Potash/Potassium Sulfate) that would be good too. Don't think you have to stick directly to 10-10-10 either, as long as you can find something with similar numbers you will be fine, even if they are off a little bit, your lawn won't know the difference.


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## William (Oct 2, 2017)

Well I verticut my Bermuda tonight. Between all the insect issues, the weeds and a couple of scalps and aeration, I was incredibly surprised of the thatch layer it brought up. Raking the lawn tomorrow, but dang!


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## William (Oct 2, 2017)

William said:


> Well I verticut my Bermuda tonight. Between all the insect issues, the weeds and a couple of scalps and aeration, I was incredibly surprised of the thatch layer it brought up. Raking the lawn tomorrow, but dang!


































The thing that I find most shocking is that my yard at best is 18 months old. This is all from insect damage I believe.


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