# How do I tackle this new construction mess of a yard?



## Tyrob3 (11 mo ago)

Hello all, I've been a long time lurker and used a lot of tips here to renovate my front yard this past fall with great results. I recently bought a new construction home that left a lot out when it came to the yard. They left hardly any topsoil on top of my East TN clay, has it filled with rocks ranging from 50lb boulders to tons of gravel left by the builder. They covered it with a seed mat that did hardly anything due to the poor soil/rocks. I pulled all the seed mats out and started with the front yard as it was more manageable for myself. The front yard was fairly easy for me as it was relatively flat and small ( around 1200 sqft ). My backyard is a different animal. It's still relatively small at 3000 sq ft, but has a very steep slope of around 25-30%. It's in rough shape as I didn't even attempt anything last fall because I did not have the time to try to renovate both. It's got a little bit of grass that looks to be a fescue from within the seed mats, but the rest is just rocky, eroding from the the grade of the yard, etc. It was an old pasture that had livestock on it for years, so as the heat of the summer hit it, it was overtaken by foxtail and crab grass. Now it's mainly a muddy mess that our dog tracks inside after any rain shower and I'm searching for the best step forward with what to do to improve it. I've debating seeding with the TTTF I used on the front yard last fall, but I'm not confident that the seed will be able to root if a typical spring rainstorm comes and washes it all away. I've considered to just throw a preemergent down and try to maintain what I have, but it's honestly not much. I've considered sod, but I'm hesitant to drop the money on it. I feel like it's probably the best route to help with the erosion and to help cover up some of the rocks that I know will be left behind. There's only so many a guy with a rake can pick up. I deal with a fair amount of shade due to the woods I have behind my yard as well as the houses on either side that will limit the evening exposure as the sun gets onto the other side. I'm attaching some pictures of the back yard and my successful renovation in the front to try to get me some sort of plan for this season. Thanks so much!


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## RentalLawn (Jan 4, 2022)

Hey Tyrob3,

Welcome to the party!

Man, your front looks great! ...But that back yard is a tough spot.

I know you said sod wouldn't be an easy "bill" to swallow, but I think a combination of fescue sod and a few truck loads of top soil could be the beginning of a solution. Putting out a nice topsoil layer and staking the sod into the soil with sod stakes. You'll need to start a consistent fertilization program as you want to push the turf's root growth - i.e., spoon-feeding a balanced 10-10-10 or another low nitrogen fertilizer every 3-4 weeks, No "set it and forget it" in the back yard. Overall, patience will be key.

Also, you could integrate some mulch beds with partial sun plants along that south-facing fence and back tree line where's it's heavily shaded. No grass _likes _shade, but some plants do.

I'm not not sure of your true location, but look at Palmer's Turf Farm, of Dunlap, for options.
https://www.palmersturf.com/product/tall-fescue/

Now, there's also hydroseeding. It's becoming the new hotness with commercial jobs and you could see about getting a quote for your backyard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroseeding

See links from Classic Lawn & Tree of Maryville.

https://classiclawnandtree.com/general-hydroseeding/

https://classiclawnandtree.com/residential-hydroseeding/

Hope this helps add a little direction!


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## Tyrob3 (11 mo ago)

RentalLawn said:


> Hey Tyrob3,
> 
> Welcome to the party!
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply! I'm located in Knoxville, but didn't realize there was a hydro seeding co. in Maryville. I'll have to give them a call. I've fought everything from army worms to fungus in the front yard, so I hope it bounces back well this spring! For the back, I'm figuring at a minimum I'll need a layer topsoil for the entirety of it, but what should I do with the current situation? Kill it all off, till it, regrade the best that I can? Then go for sod/hydro seed? Seems like a really big job for me to do on my own, but like you said, for me to afford it, I may have to be the one that does. :bd:


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

Bermuda would grow well &#128540;. Throw some sprigs down, water and fertilize!


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## Tyrob3 (11 mo ago)

Easyluck said:


> Bermuda would grow well 😜. Throw some sprigs down, water and fertilize!


I've considered Bermuda to get through the hot summers we have, but I'm not sure how much sunlight I'd even get to help it thrive. I'm thinking the shade from my woods/house/deck will prevent much of it from growing well.


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## RentalLawn (Jan 4, 2022)

Tyrob3 said:


> Thanks for your reply! I'm located in Knoxville, but didn't realize there was a hydro seeding co. in Maryville. I'll have to give them a call. I've fought everything from army worms to fungus in the front yard, so I hope it bounces back well this spring! For the back, I'm figuring at a minimum I'll need a layer topsoil for the entirety of it, but what should I do with the current situation? Kill it all off, till it, regrade the best that I can? Then go for sod/hydro seed? Seems like a really big job for me to do on my own, but like you said, for me to afford it, I may have to be the one that does. :bd:


Of course!

Overall, you need something to hold in your soil - I would highly advise to _not_ kill and till.

So, I see two approaches from lawn care and erosion abatement aspects.

From an erosion aspect, those ruts don't look like they are any getting smaller. It appears your front lawn drains against your neighbor's foundation, under their fence, and into your back yard. Maybe you could install a river rock drainage canal along your fence line to control the erosion in that area to direct the water down into the tree line.

Now, as far as the lawn, I'd see what the hydroseeding service could quote out to before the sod venture. You may be surprised for good or bad. If it's too big of a quote, see what the top soil and sod job would run next. If that's still too much, I would honestly revisit the seed blankets - but do it right and give it time. I would apply and water in a 10-10-10 fertilizer a couple of weeks before putting down the seed blankets. You're feeding the soil, not the plant.

As for sod, assuming you understand cool versus warm season turf grasses, but pardon my ignorance, fescue is a bunch-type grass and will need to be overseeded to fill in the empty spots that occur over the seasons. You may want to consider warm season turf type that's "self-repairing" for that gnarly slope and the dog traffic. Look for a shade tolerant variety of zoysia like Meyer. I would stay away from Bermuda, due to the amount of shading you have.


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## Tyrob3 (11 mo ago)

RentalLawn said:


> Tyrob3 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for your reply! I'm located in Knoxville, but didn't realize there was a hydro seeding co. in Maryville. I'll have to give them a call. I've fought everything from army worms to fungus in the front yard, so I hope it bounces back well this spring! For the back, I'm figuring at a minimum I'll need a layer topsoil for the entirety of it, but what should I do with the current situation? Kill it all off, till it, regrade the best that I can? Then go for sod/hydro seed? Seems like a really big job for me to do on my own, but like you said, for me to afford it, I may have to be the one that does. :bd:
> ...


Thanks for confirming my suspicion to keep everything intact. I have worried about that side of my yard in regards to erosion and I have considered the river rock drainage. You hit the nail on the head with how everything drains. I think that will be my first venture this spring. That side is so sparse anyway that river rock would be a good fit. I have looked at zoysia but have wondered if it would work there with the shade, it seems a bit better with shade than Bermuda. That would involve sprigs(or sod),right?

I've left a message for the hydro seeding company to get an idea of pricing. They only offer fescue and Bermuda. I've also considered throwing out a lot of fast germinating seed (prg/rescue) this spring to help aid in holding in some of the soil. I'm sure most of it will probably struggle/die out in the summer due to heat, but it couldn't hurt if that turns into my best option and wait for fall.


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## RentalLawn (Jan 4, 2022)

Good deal with the drainage issue! Lawns never lie in regards to drainage flow, care, and maintenance.

Zoysia is slightly better with shade than Bermuda. There's many comparisons as to which types are better than others, but often you get what the local sod farms produce. And yes, I would recommend sod, not sprigs. You need an instant lawn - not an experiment! Sprigs are best when there's no doubting the lawn traffic, soil, water, and sun.

I'll be interested to know what the hydroseeding quote would entail. I'd stick with fescue if I had to chose in your case.

Keep in touch!


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## Tyrob3 (11 mo ago)

RentalLawn said:


> Good deal with the drainage issue! Lawns never lie in regards to drainage flow, care, and maintenance.
> 
> Zoysia is slightly better with shade than Bermuda. There's many comparisons as to which types are better than others, but often you get what the local sod farms produce. And yes, I would recommend sod, not sprigs. You need an instant lawn - not an experiment! Sprigs are best when there's no doubting the lawn traffic, soil, water, and sun.
> 
> ...


Will do! Thanks for your insight, this isn't going to magically fix itself overnight and will be a process. Hopefully in a few years I'll look back and see major progress!

Doesn't look like anybody around me sells zoysia sod, so I'll likely be going with fescue and will see what happens in regards to the shaded areas. Hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised with the hydro seeding quote. Reading their website has got me thinking it will be the best option and that they've had success at other new constructions like mine.


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

Are ok with renting a tiller machine? I think the cost for the day should be $500 or so. That will help set the lawn up really good. You can order in some compost to mix in or just buy some bags at the local big box store. Plan out your garden beds and then buy the best quality seed you can. If you're willing to put in some effort you can really save thousands of dollars and have a much better result.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

john5246 said:


> Are ok with renting a tiller machine? I think the cost for the day should be $500 or so. That will help set the lawn up really good. You can order in some compost to mix in or just buy some bags at the local big box store. Plan out your garden beds and then buy the best quality seed you can. If you're willing to put in some effort you can really save thousands of dollars and have a much better result.


Do you think tilling soil on a hill that already has erosion will yield good results?


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## Tyrob3 (11 mo ago)

RentalLawn said:


> Good deal with the drainage issue! Lawns never lie in regards to drainage flow, care, and maintenance.
> 
> Zoysia is slightly better with shade than Bermuda. There's many comparisons as to which types are better than others, but often you get what the local sod farms produce. And yes, I would recommend sod, not sprigs. You need an instant lawn - not an experiment! Sprigs are best when there's no doubting the lawn traffic, soil, water, and sun.
> 
> ...


I met with the hydro seeding Co yesterday and he advised not to do much to disturb the earth due to my erosion. He said his plan would be to aerate the entire yard too somewhat loosen the soil, bring in 10 yards of topsoil, then hydro seed. Quoted me around $2k which is a bit higher than I'd like to spend. A local sod company here quoted me $1200 for the amount I need delivered. Granted, I'll be the one doing all the work, but the price has me back considering that. I'm not surprised I need topsoil, but would the sod still be a better option ?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Sod is a better option. It controls the erosion problems with the steep hill and it does bring some soil with it.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Agreed, yes to sod over hydro seed.


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## Tyrob3 (11 mo ago)

g-man said:


> Sod is a better option. It controls the erosion problems with the steep hill and it does bring some soil with it.


So what is the best way for me to prep for sod? I know to remove as much rock as possible, but should I bring in any soil? I know you're supposed to till, but still hesitant with that slope. Should I keep any of the established sections of grass?


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## Tyrob3 (11 mo ago)

Tyrob3 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > Sod is a better option. It controls the erosion problems with the steep hill and it does bring some soil with it.
> ...


The more I've raked rocks, the more I feel like I unearth. I'm wondering if I do need to bring in a bunch of topsoil to get sod to take. Should I? Should I kill off where I'm going to lay sod, or just till it up? Kind of wondering what the best next step is with the slope.


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## RentalLawn (Jan 4, 2022)

Hey!

I would not till the existing soil. That will lead to more erosion. I would either bring in a couple yards of topsoil and lay the sod on, or just get sod and lay it on. Either way, be sure to _use sod staples._ If you're going with fescue sod, it will take a couple seasons to get it established and all filled in. Fertilizing and overseeding will be your main focuses. There will be some gains and losses with this process...overall, patience is key.

Have you considered sending your neighborhood's excavation company the bill for all this work? Sarcasm aplenty, it's just a s*** job left to you, the homeowner...


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## Tyrob3 (11 mo ago)

RentalLawn said:


> Hey!
> 
> I would not till the existing soil. That will lead to more erosion. I would either bring in a couple yards of topsoil and lay the sod on, or just get sod and lay it on. Either way, be sure to _use sod staples._ If you're going with fescue sod, it will take a couple seasons to get it established and all filled in. Fertilizing and overseeding will be your main focuses. There will be some gains and losses with this process...overall, patience is key.
> 
> Have you considered sending your neighborhood's excavation company the bill for all this work? Sarcasm aplenty, it's just a s*** job left to you, the homeowner...


You're telling me about the neighborhood. Everybody's yard is a rocky mess. I feel bad for some of them that are never going to put that work into it, because they simply don't care or aren't physically or financially able. I really don't understand how there's so many rocks, they must have used the worst topsoil known to man. They're everywhere, I don't think I'll ever be able to get them all out. Everybody's complained and they claim we agreed to the minimal yard prep in our homebuyer contracts. Load of BS.

Anyway, thanks for the advice on tilling. I feel like I'm roughing up the soil enough just getting these rocks out, but I'll for sure get those sod staples to help hold it in. My whole goal with this is in the long run. Right now my dog rules the land, but hope to have it decent for my daughter when she gets old enough to start playing outside!


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## RentalLawn (Jan 4, 2022)

Well, I'd bet there was ZERO care or consideration to actual "top soil" when the subdivision was cut out of the woods or fields, in your case. It was probably mounded and sold off to be bagged at your local home center. Same for the timber...

You have B and C horizon (subsoil and substratum) soil on the surface... The clearing crew makes way for the excavation crew, who then let in a small crew of road and underground electric/plumbing crew. It's a brutal high-production building process that occurs all too often...

Yes indeed, have plenty of patience for the long run goal. You could get your shaded areas filled in with shade plants/flowers where you can figure grass growth won't be strong. Some landscaping is better than none.


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

Didn't read through the whole thread, but with 3k sqft, I would definitely install sod unless you're looking for another full time job. Live with it until the threat of fungus and heat is gone after summer, grade it out if needed, and lay some sod. 2 people can lay 3k sqft of sod in 6 hours at a comfortable pace.

edit. Scanned through the posts. I disagree with a few recommendations. Do not apply 10-10-10 to bare soil a few weeks before seeding to feed the soil. You don't need sod staples. Do not till. You don't need a layer of topsoil. Your front yard turned out great with your prepping process and sod. It was likely treated the same way as your backyard during construction. The TTTF will love the afternoon and evening shade. Keep it simple.


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## Tyrob3 (11 mo ago)

learningeveryday said:


> Didn't read through the whole thread, but with 3k sqft, I would definitely install sod unless you're looking for another full time job. Live with it until the threat of fungus and heat is gone after summer, grade it out if needed, and lay some sod. 2 people can lay 3k sqft of sod in 6 hours at a comfortable pace.
> 
> edit. Scanned through the posts. I disagree with a few recommendations. Do not apply 10-10-10 to bare soil a few weeks before seeding to feed the soil. You don't need sod staples. Do not till. You don't need a layer of topsoil. Your front yard turned out great with your prepping process and sod. It was likely treated the same way as your backyard during construction. The TTTF will love the afternoon and evening shade. Keep it simple.


Thanks for your response! The front yard wasn't sod. I brought in 3 yards of top soil and seeded it with GCI TTTF this past fall. Bunch of work, but was very worth it. Are you saying to not worry about doing anything this spring then sod in the fall? I've been working hard to get a lot of the rock out these past weeks and have made good progress. Still about 1/3 of the yard to go, but I'm glad to see most of it coming up. I know I'll never get all of the rock, but this is definitely better than before. The amount of ruts and now the holes from all the rock getting unearthed had me thinking to bring in some topsoil too. 
My plan was to sod this spring, near the first of April. I wanted to keep some of the existing fescue that has grown well and sod around it. See what happens over the summer, then overseed this fall. My main concern this year is erosion with the slope of my yard and thinking I need the sod down to help with that. Is my thinking wrong/my plan not the most ideal?

I've also decided to cut a small ditch down my fence line and line it with rock to help direct the drainage from my down spouts and other rainfall. I'm thinking I'm going to use all this rock that I've unearthed, because why not? I've already got it in the backyard and sure beats having to haul old out and new in. I didn't get far as the ground was ridiculously firm, but we're getting some rain today that should help me get the rest of it dug out.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

I would bring in 1-2 inches of topsoil just before you sod to get a bit more good dirt over the rocks. As for the ditch, a better option that is more work would be to bury a flexible conduit and attach the downspouts to that.


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## Tyrob3 (11 mo ago)

bernstem said:


> I would bring in 1-2 inches of topsoil just before you sod to get a bit more good dirt over the rocks. As for the ditch, a better option that is more work would be to bury a flexible conduit and attach the downspouts to that.


That would be ideal for my down spouts, but the ground is so firm and rocky I'm not sure if I could even get it dug out. That may be a future attempt after I get everything under control in the back. I figured the top soil would be a good addition to the sod so I'll plan on that. What would be the best way to blend in the sod with my existing grass? Is it a good plan to try and keep that existing grass? I'd hate to tear it all up.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

If you pick a sod with cultivars similar to your seed it should blend fine. I would expect any high quality TTTF sod would work to blend with the TTTF seed in your front lawn.


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

Adding 1-2" of topsoil before sodding that backyard isn't going to do anything but eat up your money, time, and energy. Just make sure to grade the existing area nicely before laying the sod. If you see someone in the neighborhood working dirt with a bobcat, hire them to do it when they are done their current job. They will be happy to take your $500 for 2 hours of work and it will be a good deal for you too. Like I said earlier, wait until heat and fungus threats have passed and then sod. Around here, the best time of year to sod is November and December. There are a lot of misconceptions with sod.


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## Tyrob3 (11 mo ago)

learningeveryday said:


> Adding 1-2" of topsoil before sodding that backyard isn't going to do anything but eat up your money, time, and energy. Just make sure to grade the existing area nicely before laying the sod. If you see someone in the neighborhood working dirt with a bobcat, hire them to do it when they are done their current job. They will be happy to take your $500 for 2 hours of work and it will be a good deal for you too. Like I said earlier, wait until heat and fungus threats have passed and then sod. Around here, the best time of year to sod is November and December. There are a lot of misconceptions with sod.


I'm confused, so it's best to go through the summer first then sod? I'm concerned with the weed pressure I had last year and the general mud pit that it was. I figure some sod could be a good bandaid to help get a jumpstart that I can overseed into this fall. I'll keep an eye out for someone doing dirt work, but so far I haven't seen much. I'd worry a Bobcat would tear more up than help though.


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

you can always sod, but once you do it needs to be watered. Heat there can be horrible and even established grass wont survive.


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

You seem like you already have your mind made up. Good luck!


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

I agree with @learningeveryday: wait until the fall to sod. If you're going to go to the expense and work of laying sod, you might as well do it when it has the best chance of survival. Sod has short roots since they cut it off from the ground where it's been growing. It won't have much time to establish before the heat of summer hits it. You didn't say that you had irrigation and it will be important to keep it watered as needed while it settles in. I say let the weeds grow this spring and summer, keeping them mowed, and kill them off before sodding. The weeds will help with erosion control until you sod. If you haven't done a soil test, this would be a good time to do so. If you happen to need lime, put it down now so the pH is better by the fall. Don't add lime without a soil test telling you if you need it and how much you need.


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## Tyrob3 (11 mo ago)

If I would hold off on the sod until fall, what should I do this spring to help with the weed pressure/aid the existing grass I've got? I've contemplated buying a bunch of fescue seed at the local Rural King (Lifetyme fescue blend) roughing up the soil and seeing what I could get established. Also thought to throw down some pre emergent to see if I can prevent some of the weeds, but I know it'll still succumb after the amount of weeds I had last year. I'm just not sure what would be the best bandaid to apply while I continue to fix it up best I can.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Embrace your weeds! They will hold the soil in place. Just keep them mowed. In July or August you can kill everything off with Roundup. You'll have a brown yard for awhile but the dead weeds' roots will be holding the soil in place until you sod in the fall. Mow very low, collecting the clippings, right before you put the sod down.


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## Tyrob3 (11 mo ago)

Virginiagal said:


> Embrace your weeds! They will hold the soil in place. Just keep them mowed. In July or August you can kill everything off with Roundup. You'll have a brown yard for awhile but the dead weeds' roots will be holding the soil in place until you sod in the fall. Mow very low, collecting the clippings, right before you put the sod down.


I'm fine with that! Only thing I'm slightly concerned with though is that it was 70% foxtail last year. Letting our dog out there could lead to a potential health risk, but last year she was fine. I guess I'll just try to control it with some post em treatments when they start coming up


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Apparently it's the foxtail seeds that harm dogs. Don't let the foxtails mature to the point they're making seeds. Keep it everything mowed somewhat low, like 2 inches.


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## NELawn (May 7, 2019)

Virginiagal said:


> Embrace your weeds! They will hold the soil in place. Just keep them mowed. In July or August you can kill everything off with Roundup. You'll have a brown yard for awhile but the dead weeds' roots will be holding the soil in place until you sod in the fall. Mow very low, collecting the clippings, right before you put the sod down.


Do you guys get Triv in TN?

Since that goes dormant in the heat, make sure you kill and triv that pops up. It will be the stuff that looks like actually grass but light green in color.

I killed off my lawn in July, but since the triv wass dormant when I put down the roundup, it all survived through my new lawn and has been impossible to deal with ever since.


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## Tyrob3 (11 mo ago)

NELawn said:


> Virginiagal said:
> 
> 
> > Embrace your weeds! They will hold the soil in place. Just keep them mowed. In July or August you can kill everything off with Roundup. You'll have a brown yard for awhile but the dead weeds' roots will be holding the soil in place until you sod in the fall. Mow very low, collecting the clippings, right before you put the sod down.
> ...


Good to know. Feel like I haven't seen any in my yard, but have only been in the house for a little over a year. We'll see what happens at the years go by. I wouldn't be surprised at anything they would pop up in this back yard.


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