# To roll or not to roll



## hogmaster (Dec 29, 2021)

I am new to this forum and I am learning a lot -- thanks everyone!!

I was reading Pete1313's journal (fascinating renovation and tremendous documentation) and he noted that the seeds did not as well where he didn't aerate. That mirrors my experience last fall when I did a complete renovation on almost my entire lawn. The areas that were disturbed (tilled about 2 inches with a rototiller) and not rolled germinated and grew 10x better than all other areas that I did roll (even if lightly tilled).

My limited experience showed that loose soil was most important. This is also consistent with the person helping me (a moonlighting landscaper) who said they always lightly rake the seed in and that's all (no rolling). To me, it seems like irrigation should somewhat compact the soil around raked-in seed and provide adequate seed contact with the ground.

I wish I was aware of this forum last year. I'll completely redo my lawn in 2022, and was planning on renting a Dingo with a cultivator, cultivating to a depth of 4 inches, gently raking in the seed, and not rolling. That's not something I've really seen on this forum. I would appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks y'all!!


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

If you are seeding into bare dirt, then breaking up the top 1-2 inches with a harley rake, light cultivations, etc. can help a lot. Once you have it broken up, light raking to even it out, seed, and rake again with a peat moss top dressing works great. I would advocate rolling after the last raking and before the peat moss, but it isn't critical.

If you are renovating, though, the previous, now dead, lawn helps to hold the soil and peat moss in place, and I would not recommend tilling the lawn. I have found that seeding into a dead lawn with peat and no disturbance (other than aeration) is easier than bringing in a bare dirt lawn even with good prep work and a tilled seed bed.


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## T-McD (Aug 10, 2021)

bernstem said:


> If you are seeding into bare dirt, then breaking up the top 1-2 inches with a harley rake, light cultivations, etc. can help a lot. Once you have it broken up, light raking to even it out, seed, and rake again with a peat moss top dressing works great. I would advocate rolling after the last raking and before the peat moss, but it isn't critical.
> 
> If you are renovating, though, the previous, now dead, lawn helps to hold the soil and peat moss in place, and I would not recommend tilling the lawn. I have found that seeding into a dead lawn with peat and no disturbance (other than aeration) is easier than bringing in a bare dirt lawn even with good prep work and a tilled seed bed.


+1 to the dead lawn comment. I brought in 12+ yards of topsoils for my recent 5,000sqft renovation in fall '21 and battled with erosion/washout 3 different times after seed down. It was definitely a challenge. If you are just wanting to smooth things out, I would wait a season and then top dress vs bringing in top soil on dead lawn and then seeding. Best of luck.


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## Hiresdk (Nov 14, 2021)

I've done three renos in the last year and a half. Two at my place and one at a non-profit. The only reason to bring in top soil in my opinion is to level low spots. I didn't till the soil at any of my renovations and had great germination and I rolled the seed to contact the soil well. I do not rake in the soil either.

I'm a firm believer in seeds staying damp all the time is the reason for germination not being in loose souls. I have rye grass seeds germinating on concrete driveway and sidewalks all the time. No loose soil there but it stayed damp and germinated. For this reason I top dress with peat moss to make sure it stays damp. I've had excellent results. I'd say dampness is more important than loose soil.

And I agree on the dead lawn. Scalp it and leave it in place unless you need to level it. That dead grass helps and won't be noticeable after new grass come up.


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## Kmartel (Feb 12, 2019)

I did a KBG mono stand last summer. 4 of the 5 spots with poor germination and current poor turf coverage are areas I used soil to adjust grade. Seeding into a dead/established lawn is preferred.


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## hogmaster (Dec 29, 2021)

Part of my dilemma is the backyard isn't very flat. It has gradual undulations in many areas that aren't tripping hazards, but you have to adjust when you walk and that is annoying. The worst is in an area roughly 60-feet square. I could bring in dirt, and I suspect I would need 10 to 15 yards. The distance from my driveway is about 200 feet, so doing this by hand is not a good option. Renting a Dingo would cost almost $500 with delivery and pickup. 15 yards of dirt (70% clay topsoil with 30% compost) would be an additional $800 or so, bringing the total to $1300.

The other option I am considering is renting the Dingo with a Toro Cultivator (together about $700). I could then use that to lower the high spots. I could also topdress everything with compost (roughly $50/yd delivered) and work into the soil with the Dingo and Cultivator. Long-term, I suspect this would be best for my yard.

Another reason for me leaning toward the Cultivator is that some areas are very compacted, especially where I was running a large Bobcat to bring in 50 yards of soil last year to fill a sunken area in my backyard against the lake. I couldn't take the short direction for that work because of my neighbor, and instead ended up making an inadvertent compacted road-like area maybe 150 feet long. My seed last fall did not take well in those areas, and I'm leary of not loosening those areas.

But, the area I filled does have a slight slope, and I can understand concerns about washout, especially there.

I'll look forward to everyone's thoughts. Thanks!!!!


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