# AZ TifGrand 2020 Journal



## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Welp, it's about that time of year where the lawn will begin to transition from PRG to Tifgrand. The sod laid in October has barely rooted into the sand base below. That means once it heats up the Tifgrand is going to stress. To help the newly established yard settle in I picked up and will be adding RGS to the 3-4 week interval sprayings of PGR.

My initial reaction was that RGS smells like sewer gas and that I can't spray this stuff wearing sandals. Am curious to see the improvement over the 5 gals I've purchased.

The lawn is still kept relatively low. 0.6" on the 2653 and 0.45" on the toro flex. Perhaps mid Feb the lawn will be scalped and verticut. This is where the Timemaster shines. While it unfortunately does not mow low, the sucking power is fantastic. Even if it's just for some leaves.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Not sure if it's the heat, the iron in the RGS, or a placebo effect, but 1 week after an app of RGS the lawn has taken a deeper shade that resembles an app of FAS. 
This weekend the lawn will get a cocktail of PGR, Bifen, some more RGS, and Prodiamine. I want to be ahead of the crab grass this year so I plan on doing quarterly apps of a pre-emergment.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

78F today. Few stressed areas but nothing more water can't fix.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Bermuda is slowly coming awake. 
This weekend I got down some pre-em for my spring app, rgs, and pgr. Hoping I can find some time to verticut and scalp in the next few weeks. The sooner the bermuda comes the sooner I can throw sand on it.


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## jakemauldin (Mar 26, 2019)

so green already. Looks great


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

A week ago the lawn saw its first nitrogen feeding since October. The 21-0-0 followed by a weeks worth of rain made it all pop fast.

The light areas that were stressed from 80 degree weather have began to darken up as the bermuda is making it's appearance.
Everything is easy stressed due to sand below and the lack of supporting root growth. To date 5 months later I can still pick up the sod like pieces of carpet. Hard to keep things watered when your root zone is only 0.5"

The old part of the lawn has a ton of ring spots. But not with dead grass. Since the N was put down the light areas filled in with a dark center in a circular fashion. 
Not sure if it's just how the granulars were thrown out, or a fungi. 
I don't have a fungicide in my schedule but to be safe I'll spray some propiconazole or azoxy.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Spraying PGR, Quinclorac, and RGS today. 
Prodiamine is doing a great job and only really have a weed or 2 in the lawn.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

One of my favorite lawns here. Looking forward to updates this season.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

More rain is coming. Should I have some time off at home, putting the catches on the 2653 will be bumped up on the to do list.


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## Bmossin (May 31, 2018)

Looks awesome as usual. I enjoy following your journal.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Actually trimmed and edged this weekend which I generally don't do. 
Bermuda is sllloooowwwly waking up and the non established lawn won't stay wet. If I learned anything from this project it is that sod in Arizona is best placed in spring. Not summer or winter as I have done.

Just ordered 10 tons of top dressing and will be here by weekend end. Never been so excited for manual labor!


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## BakerGreenLawnMaker (Mar 13, 2018)

@AZChemist lawn is looking fantastic as usual. Congratulations on the big win!


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Finalizing that transition into summer. High 80s all week. Once the temps hit 80 it never turns back till November.

2 passes with the verticutter followed up with rotary to clean and then scalp to 0.4" where I'll leave it all season long.


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

It's amazing how much material comes to the surface with verticutting!!

Yard look fantastic AZ!! &#129304;&#127996;&#129304;&#127996;


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Yes it is! Even keeping the lawn short the grass has a tendency to get spongy due to the lateral growth. All of this is from Oct-now. I took it down to dirt when the rye was over seeded.

Thanks for the kind words as well.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Didn't make it 0.4" but close enough at 0.5"


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

One more for today. I made it to 0.4" double cut. Been a minute since I've used the toro flex and it was walking all over the place.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

15 tons of USGA spec top dressing. 
Way more than I need for the lawn, but also have a travertine paver pool deck project that it can used for.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Phase 2 of verticutting complete. Today consumed more than 2 96 gal trash bins. All in all for 6ksqft over 400 gallons of debris was removed. The new sod area benefited from it the most. The sod farm clearly let things get long. This left me with shoots that were as thick as twigs. Since this is this first time I am seeing the bermuda there was a reservation inside of me to if they even sent me the right cultivar.

The verticut removed most of puffiness and annual rye grass that remains and looks a little more like the established side.

I'm going to switch cutting heads on the toro to the groomer and lower things down to 0.35". The groomer goes a good job and pulling up the last of the rye.

Tifgrand low and trained is phenomenal, let it get puffy and tall and It's nothing to rave about. I want to keep things low low until I can level it out.

Tonight I'll get some rgs and PGR on it.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Maybe it's because one side has almost a year or PGR. Maybe it's cause the other side has no roots, but as of now I'm still leaning these 2 are not the same cultivar. 🤷‍♂️ Hard to make out but the shoots and leaf size are so much larger. I want my dwarf tiff!


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

No time to push these days so the 2653 was adjusted down to 0.4" and catchers added that I've been sitting on for over a year. 
Unfortunately the rear roller is adjusted too low so it causes the bedknife to have a positive angle in respect to the turf when it is lowered. I'll have to pull the reels again and raise the rear and hope there is enough adjustment in the front rollers to lower it further. 
0.4" is on the edge of the limits for the machine but am determined to get it dialed in to produce nice stripped cut just as it had done at 0.6". 
Really wishing I had the QA5 or newer reels for convenience sakes .


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Threw down 1#/k of AMS and slowly the grass is coming alive. Not quite a putting green but the new flag is at least something to aim
at when chipping.

Ended up purchasing a 2015 2500E as well. Disappointed in shipping costs but hoping my gamble pays off. Always dicey buying items without seeing in person.

Sand has been getting thrown down here and there but have yet to commit to the entire yard prior to aerating.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Looks fantastic!


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Triple digits and filling in fast and drinking a lot of water. 
Still at 0.40". New sod side still a completely different color and looks like a different cultivar. Dunno if this is due to the established side being treated with PGR for a reason.

New to me gamble of a 2500E shows up sometime today. I had purchased it from a banked owned yard and the details and pictures were limited. Fingers crossed!


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Mower arrived and is in great condition. The only thing about it though is the alternator isn't putting out 48v so I can not get the reels to engage. Overall still happy with my purchase.
2015 2500E with 1600 hours


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Filling in so slowly.


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## SGrabs33 (Feb 13, 2017)

Sweet new machine @AZChemist


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Maiden Voyage for the mower. I backlapped and set the reels to 0.410". Super happy with the cut. The mower in cut mode is way slower than I thought it would be.
I originally thought it had a bad alternator but was way off. It's the only alternator probably in the world that only puts out 6-7V at idle. Goes against anything I've ever seen so it was a expensive over-site. Originally when I got the mower the cutting units would not start. This was due to when the cutting units are lowered. You have to do a little tap of the lowering control again to engage them. 
The 2500E is very different to operate than the 2653 so that's most of blame. I should have read the manual first.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Cuts beautiful....lawn looking great as always!!!


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Thanks! 
Sod farm rep coming out Monday to look at the new sod side that is way off. 
Over the phone they told me it was because I need to use a better fertilizer and because the PRG was still in it. It's been scalped, verticut 3 directions, and 107 degrees this week. There is no prg. . . . 
Waiting for them to say there was a mix up before leveling.


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

So it did not need an alternator after all? Turf looks fantastic!! &#129304;&#127996;&#129304;&#127996;

Yard looks great!! My Toro Greensmaster 3150, Reelmaster 2000d and 3100 are all three different animals


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

AZChemist said:


> No time to push these days so the 2653 was adjusted down to 0.4" and catchers added that I've been sitting on for over a year.
> Unfortunately the rear roller is adjusted too low so it causes the bedknife to have a positive angle in respect to the turf when it is lowered. I'll have to pull the reels again and raise the rear and hope there is enough adjustment in the front rollers to lower it further.
> 0.4" is on the edge of the limits for the machine but am determined to get it dialed in to produce nice stripped cut just as it had done at 0.6".
> Really wishing I had the QA5 or newer reels for convenience sakes .


It's a hell of a lot of work horsing around the heavy reel cutting units on the 2653a isn't it? I've been adjusting my machine quite a bit lately too dialing in the cut.

Very cool with the new machine. Where did you come across it?

I wanted to ask how you make your turns when mowing....do you do a standard 3-point turn or something else? I'm experimenting with making u shaped turns and leaving a one-pass strip inbetween and essentially having double width stripes. The turf saver tires on mine are still pretty though on my bermuda.


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

The big heavy reels on the utility are def a pain to lift and adjust but I just got a JD 1025R compact tractor so I'm gonna come up with a lifting system to put them up on the bench for adjustments for mine.

As far as turns, I do 3-point turns when I get to the fence or house - when headed to the street, I just make sure no cars are coming and do a large U-turn and start back on the uncut grass.

AZ now has a greens mower with the bald tires...much more gentle on turf that a threaded tire


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

The 2653 reels were insanely heavy. I could feel all 2000lbs of the mower when I dropped them. The new owner picked it up yesterday and I would be lying if I told you I didn't think about keeping it. Once i got the bedknife angle down the cut was money.

Both my riding mowers had smooth tires and the only marks they leave are if the lawn is wet. To make my turns I just crank the wheel. Over shoot it and get the reels parallel, then I pop it in reverse until the tire hits the curbing. So not quite a u turn. More like a smooth ? Mark.

The Sod farm rep came out today and he was as stumped as I. Sounds like they are going to be pulling out the old/new sod and replacing it. The color isn't coming anywhere closer to matching and while there are some similarities in form it isn't like for like. I know my wife will be happy for me to stop saying this isn't the same grass every time we go into the yard.


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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

I can only imagine what the rep from the sod farm was thinking when he showed up. "This guy really wants me to tear this up?". Haha. Looking great as always.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

He recommended it. It doesn't look like the 2 varieties will ever never match. Super nice guy and could appreciate that I was a home owner who loves his lawn. 99% of Arizonans could care less, have rocks, synthetic turf, or want their grass removed. It's not a easy thing to manage in this heat. 106 at 5%rh today.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

The 2500E reel speed adjustment is awesome. One would assume The reels on the unit where 11 blades, but upon arrival I found they were recently replaced with 14 blades. Happy they are new and sharp, not so happy with the 14 blade. This is where the reel speed comes into play.

The PGR is working perfectly. Last cut was 4 days ago and the clippings are ~3/4 of a catcher full. The catchers are very small in comparison to a GM1600 too. All clippings are in the 1/4 range which makes me happy to see. 
An additional sod farm rep came out today and decided against replacing the lawn and said it was more along the lines of different types of ryes still present in the turf, and because the Tifgrand has not rooted. 
Not sure I agree but they are the pros.

Also added a older 2100 to the mix. Brush kit available for sale!


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## Brodgers88 (Feb 26, 2017)

I hope that turf matches up for you! Would suck to see it have to get ripped out and start over again with all the time and effort you've put into it. Although I guess if it had to be done the sod farm would take care of it all for you? Keep up the awesome work!


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

I wasn't in the market for a new spreader but when I saw a Anderson AP2000 pop up I jumped on it. These never come up for sale so figured why not. For $125 it puts my Lesco to shame. I don't think I'll ever use the Lesco for spreading ever again. I threw down some AMS this evening and it was a dream. Best difference I love is it's quite and very even distribution. Happy to add it to the garage.


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## Chris1 (Apr 22, 2020)

The Andersons looks really nice. I just missed SR2000 on CL. The build is very similiar to my Lesco 80 LB buy it appears the shutoff design and distribution is far superior


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

What a lousy day to lay down about 6 tons of sand. 110F and humid. My goal was not to level but to remove the inconsistencies from the new sod. It doesn't look like much all spread out. If I have learned anything from this it is not to bother with overseeded bermuda. Night and day installing it out of dormancy vs the cool months.

I did start off with a shovel and the gorilla cart. Well about 6 loads in I changed the bucket on the excavator to a 36" and went with the gator and electric dump bed. 2 weeks ago I hit it with 9-9-9 and iron followed up a week later with 21-7-14 in attempts to push new growth.

I'll repeat the process again in October to the entire yard with a solid drag to truly level everything out.

I have not been regulating at all this summer and Tifgrand has to be the slowest growing bermuda ever!


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## Sneaky_pete1 (Jul 23, 2020)

Setting the bar high for AZ lawns! I am curious what your watering schedule is like now that you are established? I have a Tifgrand lawn in Buckeye thats about 1.5 years old and am struggling a bit to dial in the watering.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

This is why I will never win lawn of the month during the summer. We've had ZERO rain this summer and something like 40 days straight above 110 degrees.


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## dpainter68 (Apr 26, 2017)

I just hope that one day mine looks as good as yours does.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

@AZChemist how often are you cutting with the tifgrand not being on regulation?

Just curious what slow growth looks like for Bermuda.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

​


ENC_Lawn said:


> @AZChemist how often are you cutting with the tifgrand not being on regulation?
> 
> Just curious what slow growth looks like for Bermuda.


I'm still cutting every 2-3 days. Photo below showing growth. My 2500E doesn't have the same chooch as the 2653 had. The electric motors do not like the thicker grass. For me the Tifgrand and the constant 110 degree weather performs better at 0.5". The new side of Of the yard with new sod, meh, looks average. Took all summer to fill in but it's almost there. The established side though, dense as can be and causes the reels to float. Makes your lines look like you are mowing drunk. It also has 14 blades which I'll replace with a 11 blade or lesser. Too much speed and the lawn will look like a pond you just threw a rock in. Waves for days!

The older side that was heavily regulated prior - practically no seed heads. The non regulated new side. Forest of heads. So that was interesting to see the same cultivar grow side by side and the effects of TNEX. On the 30th of September I sprayed an app of RGS, Bifen and PGR to the entire yard. Primarily just to slow it down.

I did not verticut all season. There is only 30 more days in it for me before I'll de thatch, scalp, and repeat in preparation for the over seeding season. Truthfull I couldn't be more excited. I had zero ( ZERO inches) rain this summer and 50 something days with records highs all north of 110. I'm over it this year and bermuda. It's too hot for the family to even enjoy it.

Rye is the easiest sissy grass to grow and I couldn't be more Ecstatic. I will throttle back my seeding rate of 25#/k though because it lingered around way too long this year. I didn't see full kill off till June which I believe was detrimental to the bermuda. Plus come spring it's so much work to get that grass up and out of the lawn.

I did do some random plugs this evening in hopes it takes in the next month and will add a ton or 2 of sand this weekend. Rye I maintain around 0.35-0.40" all season long (October - May)


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Time to part ways. I'll begin verticutting next week and overseed first week of oct.


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

@AZChemist I was curious, did you ever find out what happened with the second sod install? Are they in fact the same cultivar of Bermuda? If so, is it getting closer in color?

I hope so, your lawn is coming together nicely.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

First sod rep said no way. 2nd said it was because the lawn still had rye. Farm used a variety called "Evening Shade" and it's the worst. Stringy and light green.

The lawn is filling in and closer in color, but tiffgrand is weird. The blade size is larger when the plant is spreading. Once dense it seem to tighten up. Till then it just looks like 419. So some areas look correct while others are still a little off. Such a slow grower as well. I often get runs growing nearly straight up rather than In the sand I laid right next to it. Looks like spaghetti noodles. Time will tell, next year will be my year for the lawn is what I keep repeating my head. I'm sure it will get there.

To help move things along I plan on spraying MSM or anything that will selectively kill rye in March allowing the bermuda to have a faster spring up.


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## JRS 9572 (May 28, 2018)

I'm finding the same thing you're mentioning. I'll take some pics of some runners going out in a bare are where we removed some small box woods. Looks almost like common when spreading, and then compacts.

I was proud of this sprig of TifGrand after about 5 applications of PGR.


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## SuperD4K (Sep 11, 2020)

Who is your supplier for USGA sand locally? I've been calling around and half the places have no idea what I'm talking about lol. I used one place that said they had USGA sand but when it was delivered it didn't look right. It worked but I had to deal with little pebbles for a few weeks. CEMEX says they have it but its all the way out in Maricopa.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

It was west coast gravel, but save your money cause it was nothing more than mortar sand. I would not recommend it. I had the same issues as you. Going forward I am going to get the run of the mill and work that that. The grass is happy either way. The mower reels not so much but they tend to fling the larger stones out eventually


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Still 105 out but started to thin the yard out. Verticut 2 directions and bagged a few hundred gallons. I'll start scalping for 2 weeks and spray pgr right before overseeding. Just wanted to get a jump because it is too much to complete in 1 weekend. Water has been scaled back to every 3 days and the lawn hates it. Crazy how bad a thin yard looks.


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## cnet24 (Jul 14, 2017)

How deep did you verticut?


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

I try not to hit the ground so it's barely anything


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Final scalp of the year before rye goes down on Saturday. This year i am going to cut my application rate in half and shoot for 10-13lbs/k. Previously I just absolutely smashed it with seed and the winter lawn was amazing, but transitioning out was a nightmare. This year I'll be conservative and will spray the rye with MSM in March giving the bermuda ample time spring up. Crazy how much grass there is in this lawn. Easily 500-700gallons Thus far. Mind you this is a lawn that never gets over 0.5" all year.


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## coreystooks (Aug 6, 2019)

Can't wait to see it. Your overseed always impresses.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Thank you. I'm excited for a grass I can actually grow!


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

That's a wrap for this year. Put the bermuda to sleep and laid down PRG. Temps are still 100 During the day so it should not take long for these guys to pop.


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## gonefishn2010 (Jun 15, 2020)

Cant wait to see the results! We had a brutal summer this year. I put rye seed down on the 9th. First timer so I hope it looks good. I went at the bag rate of 10lbs per 1000. I feel like that might not be enough but I was afraid of the spring transition as my lawn is alittle over 2 years old. I didn't want to go too heavy and damage the Bermuda. My lawn looked pretty good all year but was to hot for the kids to go outside and enjoy it.


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## robbybobby (May 15, 2017)

Anything germinating yet? How often are you watering with how warm the day temps are still? I personally overseeded on the 10th. No action as of yet and I wonder if I jumped too early since its still too warm. I think my soil temps are in the low 80s. I'm watering 6 times in 3 min intervals daily...to keep the top layer with a tiny bit of moisture. Could be too much but its still high 90s lol


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

I water every hour on the hour from 9-5 for 4 minutes. I have rotaries on 1" Pipe so my watering is a little different than most in our area. Seeds split yesterday and Started seeing shoots this evening so should be a sea of green by Monday.

My process has always been drop 3/4 of my seed the first go, then the remaining 1/4 a week or two later. No logic to it other than hitting the spots that could of potentially been washed out.

My bermuda made an aggressive come back loving the kinda sub 100 Weather. To those not in AZ. Was a record 145 days this far for the year at 100+.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

gonefishn2010 said:


> Cant wait to see the results! We had a brutal summer this year. I put rye seed down on the 9th. First timer so I hope it looks good. I went at the bag rate of 10lbs per 1000. I feel like that might not be enough but I was afraid of the spring transition as my lawn is alittle over 2 years old. I didn't want to go too heavy and damage the Bermuda. My lawn looked pretty good all year but was to hot for the kids to go outside and enjoy it.


I know what you mean about not being able to enjoy the lawn. I tried and tired and tried to maintain a sub 0.5" and the lawn just wasn't having it. The AZ sun is brutal. I raised my HOC but was late in the season.

10lbs is okay but you could go heavier. It won't damage the bermuda but it certainly will inhibit spring up. Shoot for 12-15#/k - aimed for 15 this year myself. 
I've gone 20-22lbs/k and it look amazing during the winter but not without an associated cost. I had to treat regularly for fungus as I started to have some problem areas. Then came spring. The rye lingered till July, by then the bermuda Should have been in full swing so it was severely delayed. This year I will intentionally spray the rye with MSM killing it off. It will look terrible and I love my rye, but spent too much time and money on the tif to have it be the runner up.

Lot of growing pains as the years progress but I finally feel like I am dialing it in.


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## Phxphenom (Aug 19, 2020)

It's 97F today in Phoenix and am waiting at least until next weekend to lay PRG. I see that the U of A Extension website recommends waiting until the nightime low is 55F.....We are a little more than a week out from that....

I enjoy this journal so keep posting especially with pics.
Thanks,
Marc


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Thanks Marc. 
The lawn is 1/2 way full after 7 days. I did another pass with the drop seeder since I only applied 60% of all my seed the first week. Come Sunday it should be closer to where I would like it. Clearly my center head needed adjustment. My phone does not do the greatest job at capturing the true color of the grass. Looks to be more emerald to blue in person.


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## robbybobby (May 15, 2017)

Man this is incredibly frustrating on my end. I have like 20% coverage and I have been watering a ton, though I don't believe too much honestly. With that said...the only place that has come in is an area that gets the least amount of sun right now...so maybe i'm not watering enough. I haven't applied any Pre-M in the area leading up to it so i'm not sure what is the issue.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

Whoops- wrong tread. Sorry guys. What I get for posting when trying to fall asleep.


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## robbybobby (May 15, 2017)

How does the lawn look?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

AZChemist said:


> I have pea gravel surrounding my lawn and one of my biggest complaints is the turf tires for a gator carries a lot of rock into the yard when I drive on it. Not the greatest for a reel mower. So when I picked up a new gator I changed it up a little. Tire selection for the 9" rear is slim so I switched it to a 12" wheel from a tractor, powder coated the Rims, and went with a smooth tread design.


That's sharp!


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## robbybobby (May 15, 2017)

No journal this year?


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## PhxHeat (Oct 18, 2019)

@AZChemist . . . ^^^ what @robbybobby said. :mrgreen:

how about some pics ?


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## Phxphenom (Aug 19, 2020)

Have you abandoned the journal? It's go time about now......


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