# msma? or equivalent



## jpos34 (Aug 31, 2019)

On the left of the red line is Bermuda sod that was planted at time of the house being built. on the right contains a mixture of where the Bermuda has spread and a lot of dallis grass. I'm wanting to know if i can spray msma on this or if there is something equivalent for residential use. do you think if i killed off all the dallis grass the Bermuda sod would spread that far? or would you overseed everything as well? Any tips or suggestions would be appreciated. the sodded area is cut with a rotary push mower. the other is cut with your standard john deer rider mower. i Will be getting a mower upgrade if i can actually get decent grass in the rest of the lawn. the whole lawn is not pictured its about 15000 square feet total so i will have a lot the spray and overseed if needed.


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

The only products labeled for residential bermuda turf which will control dallisgrass are Tribute Total and a combination of Celsius+Revolver.

The bermuda can certainly fill in that space over time, but it's pretty late in the season now. I would apply MSMA in the spring, and then fertilize heavily all season long. 1lb N per week and the bermuda will shoot out of the ground. If you have large patches of bare dirt after the MSMA, get a plugging tool and transplant plugs from your sodded bermuda areas into the bare spots.


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## jasonbraswell (Aug 18, 2019)

I recently sprayed MSMA and Weedstop together to hit the broadleaf and grassy weeds. Worked great on dallis grass. Sod doesn't spread very well based on my experience over the last year. Over seed is worth a shot this late. Mohawk is more cold tolerant bermuda variety and might give you a better chance going into winter with a short time to mature.


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

overseed - as in PRG? are you saying evrything to the right of the line is bermuda, spread from the sod with dallis?

may need more than 1 app - about 7-10 days apart to put the nail in the coffin. to spread, i'd be dropping fast release weekly and irrigating.


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## jpos34 (Aug 31, 2019)

PRG? EVERYTHING TO THE RIGHT IS A MIXTURE OF DALLIS, BERMUDA THAT WAS ALREADY THERE AND BERMUDA THAT HAS SPREAD FROM THE SOD. AND WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY FAST RELEASE? THANKS IM NEW TO THIS


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## Sublime (Jun 15, 2019)

I would not apply MSMA. It breaks down into an inorganic form of arsenic that can be harmful. With a yard that big, you might be able to justify purchasing both Celsius and Revolver to take it out. That combined with mowing reel low will choke out the dallisgrass.

Or you can use glyphosate to wipe out the dallisgrass.

Regardless of which method you use, the best way to get the bermuda to spread is to feed and water it, and cut it low.


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

Fast as in cheap and no coatings that help 'time release' so it's more gradual. Fast is Urea nitrogen usually, there are others.

PRG - rye grass. some put out rye for the winter green look while Bermuda is dormant. I suspect you were thinking of tossing out bermuda seed when you said overseed.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Sublime said:


> I would not apply MSMA. It breaks down into an inorganic form of arsenic that can be harmful. With a yard that big, you might be able to justify purchasing both Celsius and Revolver to take it out. That combined with mowing reel low will choke out the dallisgrass.
> 
> Or you can use glyphosate to wipe out the dallisgrass.
> 
> Regardless of which method you use, the best way to get the bermuda to spread is to feed and water it, and cut it low.


Agreed. Dalisgrass is not as competitive when mowed lower than 1/2". A lot of product failures concerning the newer herbicides are related to height of cut. Revolver+Celsius or else Monument do an acceptable job of controlling Dallisgrass when combined with reel mowing. Another option is Tribute Total, which consists of the AI of Revolver, Celsius, and Sedgehammer all in one. Revolver+label rate of Celsius is a good value. Tribute Total was designed for convenience.


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## jpos34 (Aug 31, 2019)

I was thinking of waiting till the spring before spraying the dallis grass with whatever was best recommended ,or i could do it now if that was the best recommendation. I wasnt planning on overseeding over the dead dallis grass until the spring with bermuda using a seed slicer, with the hopes of the newly seeded bermuda taking over the lawn throughout the spring and summer. i keep the dallis grass cut as short as possible with the hopes of the bermuda trying to choke it out or spread faster., and i dont give it any time for seed heads to sprout up. would yall recommend spraying now, seeding in spring. or doing both in the spring ?


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## Redeyeback (May 7, 2021)

@jpos34 just curious how your experiment went?

What all have you done to control the Dallisgrass?
It's been 2 years, has the Dallisgrass returned?

Which mower did you end up buying?

Would love to hear the followup.


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## jpos34 (Aug 31, 2019)

Redeyeback said:


> @jpos34 just curious how your experiment went?
> 
> What all have you done to control the Dallisgrass?
> It's been 2 years, has the Dallisgrass returned?
> ...


 I've used Msma in small intervals to slowly take over the yard. I spray a portion kill it off and let it spread and fill back in with the Bermuda. then start the process again. To this point I have about 6k more square feet of lawn than I did previously with about another 7k left to take over. From my experience the Msma works great and it knocked it all out nearly in first application then have to spot spray after. I have the Tru-Cut C25 but looking to upgrade to a greens mower if the right deal appears. This year I've been fighting armyworms and fungus so the yard has been lacking in my opinion. My hopes are to get this under control next year.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

I definitely would wait until spring to give Bermuda the best chance to cover it up. I would msma to accomplish your dallisgrass kill. Imo there's no need to use and seed because Bermuda will take over the whole yard in no time. Fertilize once every two weeks and mow mow mow.


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## jpos34 (Aug 31, 2019)

CenlaLowell said:


> I definitely would wait until spring to give Bermuda the best chance to cover it up. I would msma to accomplish your dallisgrass kill. Imo there's no need to use and seed because Bermuda will take over the whole yard in no time. Fertilize once every two weeks and mow mow mow.


Agreed, the original post was 2 years ago before I had learned as much as I have now. I didn't throw down one seed. And have had 6000 square feet worth of spreading. I'm done with the msma till next year when things warm up again.


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## Redeyeback (May 7, 2021)

So every study I've read on controlling Dallis with MSMA stated 2 apps in the fall, followed by a 3rd in the spring. Yet on forums I hear about people being happy with a single app? I'm wondering what rates were used for a single app to accomplish this?

Also read an article of a guy spraying 1.5oz MSMA in 4gal as a spot spray. He went down with Tribute -> MSMA 2WAIT - Tribute 4WAIT. It said he had hoped the smaller amount of MSMA would prevent leaching and act as a kicker for the Tribute. Anyone know if this is logical or no?


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