# So much clover!



## All Day NPK (Feb 17, 2019)

Help!

I've always had clover but I feel like this year has been the worst. It's spreading more and more. This year I didn't fertilize till a few weeks ago. Grass came in nice and green out of winter and didn't want to push too much growth too fast. I've heard clover comes when the soil is low in nutrients and I've also heard clover is a sign of good soil. Not sure what it is!

I have 8-10 CECs with typical northeast grass mix. Fescue, rye, and KBG.

I sprayed some of this already with Bayer 3 way (dicamba, quinclorac, and 2,4d) with a triclopyr kicker (via WBG COO). It feels like it's not having an impact after weeks and after my carbon x fertilization 2 weeks ago it seems to be spreading more!

Any ideas or thoughts?

FYI pics were taken mostly in shade with some pop through sun, hence the funky colors and shades of green.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Use triclopyr spiked with ammonium sulfate if you have some. It takes multiple repeated applications.


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## All Day NPK (Feb 17, 2019)

@g-man thanks for the idea!

Do I buy granular or powdered ammonium sulfate and dissolve it in the tank with the triclopyr or do I buy a liquid version of AMS? Ive never actually used it.


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## All Day NPK (Feb 17, 2019)

Oh I also forgot to ask: what is it that's causing the clover? Is it poor nutrition or good/ too much nutrients? Once I do get it controlled I'd like to prevent it in the future. Soil pH is low, basically high 5's to 6.0ish.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

My neighbour had a lot of clover in there no mix lawn so this spring I blanket sprayed 61.6% triclopyr on there yard. After the first app the clover just started to yellow. I sprayed a second app a week later and now the clover is almost fully torched. I will assess in another week and might do one more app for them to get the last of it. I used 3/4 oz per k of the 61.6% triclopyr with a 1 gallon water carrier and added 1 table spoon of NIS. Like g-man says it takes a few apps to rid clover fully.

The water soluble granular AMS is fine to mix in your tank.


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## All Day NPK (Feb 17, 2019)

Thank you @SNOWBOB11 and @g-man. I will try this out and let you know!


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## Dkrem (Mar 16, 2019)

Clover dies quite easily if you can get the herbicide on it. I had previously sprayed clover with weed b gone for years and it just blinked at me. Then one day I added surfactant and the exact same weed b gone killed it all. Pluck one and run some water over it, you'll see all the little microscopic hairs on the leaf surface that let the water just roll off.


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## Global Threat (May 16, 2019)

Par III with nuke it off this planet.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

All Day NPK said:
 

> Oh I also forgot to ask: what is it that's causing the clover? Is it poor nutrition or good/ too much nutrients? Once I do get it controlled I'd like to prevent it in the future. Soil pH is low, basically high 5's to 6.0ish.


Clover is caused by seeds. A bird pooped some seeds, or the wind, or some topsoil or shoes or a mower from another lawn. There are environmental/soil conditions that make it easier for the seeds to grow, but it is not the cause or the cure. Just spray it when you see it and it eventually go away.

Clover does have one property that is interesting. It take nitrogen from the air (78% of the air is nitrogen) and thru soil bacteria, converts it to nitrates (nitrogen the plants can use). It collects enough to store them in nodules on the root. When you kill the clover, that nitrogen is available to other plants. Clover is used as a cover crop to reduce the cost of nitrogen. This is called nitrogen fixation. More Info here.

We now have synthetic nitrogen sources (urea), but that was not the case until Fritz Haber invented a process for it. Without him, the world supply of food would be a very different story.


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## Dkrem (Mar 16, 2019)

g-man said:


> Clover does have one property that is interesting. It take nitrogen from the air (78% of the air is nitrogen) and thru soil bacteria, converts it to nitrates (nitrogen the plants can use). It collects enough to store them in nodules on the root. When you kill the clover, that nitrogen is available to other plants. Clover is used as a cover crop to reduce the cost of nitrogen. This is called nitrogen fixation. More Info here.


Yep, and it has vigorous roots which really lock down bare soil in a hurry. For the first three years after new construction my yard was mostly clover. I didn't plant it, but I was perfectly happy with it holding the clay together and providing nutrition and shade to help the fescue take hold. As the desired crop was able to thicken up by overseeding routines I began to slowly kill off the clover to make room.


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

I use an ester based triclopyr with some NIS mixed in. Most clover is gone after 1 app but there are spots that take 2 treatments.

It's kind of funny, I have a 1/2 acre clover plot that I work to keep grass out of and a 1/2 acre lawn I work to keep clover out of. Doesn't really make sense does it?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@ForsheeMS what is the clover plot for? Bees?


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## downriverlawn (May 14, 2019)

I used the weed b gon product with, I think 8% triclopyr yesterday. It was a little confusing, calling for 1 oz / 200 sq ft, but I spot sprayed / almost a light blanket spray on my 5,000sq ft. I mixed 5 oz in only 1 gallon, and reading they recommend 1oz / gallon. From the numbers I had a concentrated liquid, but very light app. 1 gallon for 200sq ft didn't make sense so I guess we'll see how it goes this coming week...


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

g-man said:


> @ForsheeMS what is the clover plot for? Bees?


It's kind of a 2 part reason. First off this area was an old overgrown power line right of way. The power company came through every 3 or 4 years and sprayed all the brush and scrub trees to keep it out of the power lines. The reason I did clover is because it doesn't require a lot of maintenance and it helps feed the local deer herd. I do see a lot of honey bees making use of it too.


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## krusej23 (May 8, 2018)

That is awesome @ForsheeMS


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Glad I searched up recent posts of clover before posting. I've also noticed that it has spread significantly over the past couple of years. At work, it's spreading like wildfire, even in turf stands with decent fertility. In naturalized areas (no fertilizer) the clover seems to be on steroids. Each lobe is the size of a quarter, and is a foot tall. Has anyone noticed this? I attribute some of this to a mild winter and rainy spring. Thoughts?


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## LIgrass (May 26, 2017)

Chris LI said:


> Glad I searched up recent posts of clover before posting. I've also noticed that it has spread significantly over the past couple of years. At work, it's spreading like wildfire, even in turf stands with decent fertility. In naturalized areas (no fertilizer) the clover seems to be on steroids. Each lobe is the size of a quarter, and is a foot tall. Has anyone noticed this? I attribute some of this to a mild winter and rainy spring. Thoughts?


Definitely more clover around my area than I've ever seen before. We had the wettest April on record on LI and most of it was shallow rains. No doubt that contributed to this. I'm also seeing a lot more poa than ever.


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## jingobah (May 6, 2019)

Had triple the clover in my lawn this year compared to last year. I sprayed the Ortho CCO with hose attached 6 days ago & all the clover is now brown & dying off. Doesn't look like I'll have to do a follow treatment, but I'll wait a few more days to decide. I don't really like those browning clover spots in my nice dark green lawn but hopefully they go away.


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

jingobah said:


> Had triple the clover in my lawn this year compared to last year. I sprayed the Ortho CCO with hose attached 6 days ago & all the clover is now brown & dying off. Doesn't look like I'll have to do a follow treatment, but I'll wait a few more days to decide. I don't really like those browning clover spots in my nice dark green lawn but hopefully they go away.


Keep an eye on it. Clover seeds profusely so you will likely have more popping up from seed. Keep some of the CCO concentrate mixed up and ready to spot spray as needed. Getting it before it blooms is key to getting rid of it.


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## Ohio Lawn (Mar 20, 2019)

Can you spray clover with Triclopyr in tall fescue during summer?


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Par III + quin + surfactant (all at full rate). One app and you can turn the page. It also can burn your lawn though if hot and dry. It just did to me.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Ohio Lawn said:


> Can you spray clover with Triclopyr in tall fescue during summer?


It's always better to deal with weed spraying when it's not as hot. Summer is not the best time. The heat is already stressing the turf as it is you want to try and limit any extra stress. Wait until it's cooler if possible.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

+1 ^


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Ohio Lawn said:
> 
> 
> > Can you spray clover with Triclopyr in tall fescue during summer?
> ...


Good advice but to me I have to get rid of the weeds. If I spray in the summer I pick a cooler time of the day normally towards the evening. My go to is speedzone mixed with tenacity. Pretty much takes care of all my summer weed issues.
Side note my lawn is fully irrigated not sure I would spray if it wasn't and my turf was heat stressed already.


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## Muddysneakers77 (Nov 3, 2018)

Ive had very dense and problematic clover/creeping charlie/oxalis in my yard for a couple of years now. I tried all the store bought herbicides designed specifically for it, and it only 'weakened,' not killed SOME of it. It wasent until I bought 'Tenacity,' that it actually killed killed it (after a couple applications).

Note: Tenacity DOES work...and it does not kill the grass....but it makes the weeds bright white (so you lawn looks like polka dots) after about a week..and takes a few weeks for the lawn to green up again (so the HOA isnt sending you a letter). I will continue to use it, HOWEVER, only in early Spring, when everyone elses lawn looks like crap...so mine does not stick out like a sore thumb.


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## downriverlawn (May 14, 2019)

g-man said:


> Use triclopyr spiked with ammonium sulfate if you have some. It takes multiple repeated applications.


what is the recommended ratio of triclopyr and AS?


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## Dkrem (Mar 16, 2019)

Ohio Lawn said:


> Can you spray clover with Triclopyr in tall fescue during summer?


I have several times, just wait until evening when the heat falls off. Ideally I wait for dusk and the first signs of dew on the grass, then I know it will stay wet on the leaf all night for maximum punch.


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## Duke (Apr 4, 2019)

I just broke down and sprayed some dense patches in my yard with Gordon's Speedzone. I am sadly at the point now where I would rather look at bare earth than white clover patches. I'll use some of Pete's Blue Heat TTTF/KBG seed later in the summer to plant grass in these patches.


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## Old Hickory (Aug 19, 2019)

Here is an episode of This Old House where Roger is touting micro-clover for cool-season grasses.

https://www.thisoldhouse.com/jamestown-net-zero-house/21053825/roger-s-nod-to-sod-the-jamestown-net-zero-house


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