# Cool Season Grass in Alabama



## gatormac2112 (Sep 14, 2017)

I'm going to be laying sod or seed in my backyard soon and have mixed feelings about what to do. My front yard is Zorro Zoysia, but to be honest I'm not that crazy about it. About 1/3 of the lawn is in so much shade that the Zorro has turned to mud. I don't want to make the same mistake with the backyard so laying down expensive zoysia to watch it die doesn't seem prudent.

If zoysia won't grow in this area, then Bermuda is out as well. And I hate St. Augustine.

So where does that leave me? Should I seed the sunny side of the yard with Bermuda and the shade area with a shade tolerant cool season grass? Would that frankenlawn look hideous or even work?

Is it possible to grow a cool season grass in Alabama, where summer temps are 85-100?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

^ I think humidity is the killer of cool season lawns in the south. Fungus pressure becomes too high.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

traitor [trey-ter]
noun
1. a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.
2. a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Yes, Fungus (Brown Patch, especially) as G-man pointed out. That said...

What do people normally use in the shade down there? St. Augustine? Looks like you're not in the Southern part of the state along the gulf where the weather is similar to Florida, where it's usually 85-90 degrees during the day and 75 at night with humidity most of the time from May to September. Is a little bit drier in Cullman?

I know some people in northern GA grow Tall Fescue (on this forum...don't know them personally), so it might work for you...but you want to do your homework first. The care is totally different from a warm-season grass, but if it turns out that it's used as an alternative shade grass in your area, you could make it work...sort of like how there are some Zoysia lawns up here. Not too many...but some. I think out of 50 homes in my immediate neighborhood, about 4 lawns are Zoysia.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

One other thing...

Think of Tall Fescue as the cool-season analog to St. Augustine...shade tolerant, wide blades, likes to be mowed at 3-4 inches, does best with slightly less fertilizer, fairly drought tolerant and will stay green a while, but not so good at Summer dormancy, and highly susceptible to fungal disease...but without the spreading of St. Aug. It has no stolons whatsoever, and very, very few rhizomes.

Also, cool-season grasses grown in heat need water more often because they transpire a lot more than warm-season grasses. That extra watering and transpiration increases fungus pressure even more.


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## gatormac2112 (Sep 14, 2017)

Ware said:


> traitor [trey-ter]
> noun
> 1. a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.
> 2. a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.


:lol:


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## gatormac2112 (Sep 14, 2017)

Green said:


> Yes, Fungus (Brown Patch, especially) as G-man pointed out. That said...
> 
> What do people normally use in the shade down there? St. Augustine? Looks like you're not in the Southern part of the state along the gulf where the weather is similar to Florida, where it's usually 85-90 degrees during the day and 75 at night with humidity most of the time from May to September. Is a little bit drier in Cullman?
> 
> I know some people in northern GA grow Tall Fescue (on this forum...don't know them personally), so it might work for you...but you want to do your homework first. The care is totally different from a warm-season grass, but if it turns out that it's used as an alternative shade grass in your area, you could make it work...sort of like how there are some Zoysia lawns up here. Not too many...but some. I think out of 50 homes in my immediate neighborhood, about 4 lawns are Zoysia.


People in the South either complain about the lack of grass in the shade or they throw mulch down and create a flower bed. I would like grass in the shade, but their doesn't seem to be a grass I can grow in the shade here, especially considering I want a turf type grass cut low.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

gatormac2112 said:


> ...but their doesn't seem to be a grass I can grow in the shade here, especially considering I want a turf type grass cut low.


Then Tall Fescue is out. You'd destroy it if you mowed it low.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I mow my fescue at 4.5 inches. I imagine that would be a real adjustment for you. You can mow it lower (say, 3.5), but it is named tall fescue for a reason.
Another consideration, but it is a shot in the dark--I mean a total shot. There is hybrid bluegrass, supposedly more heat-tolerant than regular KBG. It has been a while since I looked into it, and I'm not even sure where you can buy the seed (Scott's has/d a heat tolerant blue, but I believe it was mixed with fescue). Even if you could get the grass to survive down there, I don't know if you could cut it low like regular bluegrass. As far as I know, you would be trying something totally new: Growing hybrid bluegrass in the deep south and mowing it reel low. Just to emphasize, it is a shot in the dark, but it may be something you want to research.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Georgiadad has a kbg grass in Suwanee, ga. It is not reel mowed. He is on ATY.


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## gatormac2112 (Sep 14, 2017)

g-man said:


> Georgiadad has a kbg grass in Suwanee, ga. It is not rell mowed.


Is there a Georgiadad here?


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

Ware said:


> traitor [trey-ter]
> noun
> 1. a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.
> 2. a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.


^^^^ I like


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

gatormac2112 said:


> Is there a Georgiadad here?


In ATY.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

We get 85-100 degree summers here in NC and are able to grow cool season grasses. Especially if it's in the shade fescue should do fine. You would need to water half an inch every 3 days during summer and apply 1-2oz/K propiconazole every 2 weeks as soon as temps hit the 80s. I would suggest cutting it down to 2" to improve air circulation, but no lower than that.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> I would suggest cutting it down to 2" to improve air circulation, but no lower than that.


That sounds a little risky if it's truly shady in an area. The grass is going to struggle to have enough surface area to pick up light at that height. I'm not saying a 4+ inch HOC is the only solution, but 2 sounds a bit difficult to pull off without getting into other problems, as it's at the very low end of the acceptable mowing height. There are other ways to reduce the density, such as using a low seeding rate.


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## gatormac2112 (Sep 14, 2017)

Well I guess the fact that it can't be cut as low as I want puts the brakes on the experiment before getting started. I suppose a seeded Bermuda and ground cover it is

Thanks for the replies


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Green said:


> j4c11 said:
> 
> 
> > I would suggest cutting it down to 2" to improve air circulation, but no lower than that.
> ...


I hear you, the theory is correct, but my entire back yard is shade (2 hours direct sun) and the fescue thrived last summer at 2". I did select one of the top performing cultivars in NTEP shade tests.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Interesting. I don't dare go lower than 2.75 inches on my TTTF, due to scalping.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Do you have irrigation?

What's the light requirement for perennial ryegrass? It will tolerate being cut short.

Can you modify the environment to allow more sunlight?


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

I think this can absolutely be done with TTTF if you're willing to stick to a good anti-fungal regimen. I did a ton of NTEP research on TTTF cultivars for my very shady back yard before seeding last Fall and came up with 4th Millennium, Traverse 2, Titanium 2LS, and Firecracker SLS. They're all shade tolerant and have some rhizomous traits. Since I'm lazy with my back yard, I don't change my 2" HOC after cutting the KBG in the front and they're all doing well. I think the idea here is to always cut low from the start and it'll be fine.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

vnephologist said:


> I don't change my 2" HOC after cutting the KBG in the front and they're all doing well. I think the idea here is to always cut low from the start and it'll be fine.


This makes me wonder if there is some link between changing HOC and disease/color/health of the plant. i'm just thinking out loud here, as this kind of information is interesting/novel to me. 
Obviously, there are qualifications (like fescue shouldn't be mowed below one inch!), but I do wonder whether HOC consistency is a better predictor of plant health than HOC itself.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

vnephologist said:


> I think the idea here is to always cut low from the start and it'll be fine.


I was wondering about this just now. It seems like Tall Fescue, if it's mowed high, develops high plant crowns as it matures...the crowns seem to push up as time goes on. If you always mowed low, starting when you planted it, maybe that would never happen. But what if you skipped a few mows? If it pushed up, and then you scalped it, would it adapt again by retracting back into the soil?


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## sanders4617 (Jul 9, 2018)

@gatormac2112

I'm also from Alabama and will be seeding TTTF this fall. Only worried about fungus and I will put out fungicide - I have seen some other yards (more shade) in Birmingham with TTTF and look good in the summer. Key is a higher cut though, and that goes for areas in TN, NC, etc that are just north of here. The longer the grass blade, the deeper the root supposedly. So the grass can withstand heat and drought a little better.

Make sure to plant during Mid September or so.. and give yourself through the next Spring to build a strong turf for the Summer.

The idea of having green lawn during the colder months is a nice thought. I'm use to having a brown lawn from late October/November to sometime in Spring.

Side note, I'm seeding an area in the back yard with Bermuda very shortly. It's all sun and I want a shorter turf back there. Gotta figure out how to make that transition on the sides lol. But we only live once, give it a shot!

Just be sure to kill all that Bermuda (multiple times lol)out beforehand.. stuff is wicked and can survive about anything.


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