# Liquid Hose End Fungicide/ Rain



## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

Good morning from a soaked Nj.

I applied this liquid hose end fungicide and the weather called for no rain until much later. Within 20 mins. a full downpour which definitely washed off my chemical into the soil. The label reads something to the effect rain can not was away effectivness until chemical has dried. Never happened. :evil:

So my question was this a total waste or will the root uptake be just as effective rather than the folliar? Should I reappy in the next several days?

Edit:

The labels say 2.42% AI propiconazole. I have 5,900 sf of TTTF and the bottle says it's for 5,000 sf. So I actually underdosed it.

Don't judge. :lol: It's easier than mixing and using my backpack sprayer.


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## DTCC_Turf (May 26, 2018)

Propiconazole can be used for soil borne diseases, but you may need to reapply for the foliar diseases.


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

DTCC_Turf said:


> Propiconazole can be used for soil borne diseases, but you may need to reapply for the foliar diseases.


Okay thanks. How do you figure out which diseases are soil borne or foliar? Is there some kind of chart or a link that helps with that?

I'm dealing with dollar spot and gray leaf spot right now and probably soon to be brown patch like every other year.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

Lawndad said:


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Those are all foliar diseases, propiconazole is systemic fungicide though so I don't think it's a complete waste. It should move up through the plant a bit


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

Turfguy93 said:


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Okay thanks, that is some good news then. So because it's not a strong commercial product when do you think I should reapply it for the foliar effect?


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## Killsocket (Mar 16, 2018)

@Lawndad Have you used that product before? If so, good results?


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

Killsocket said:


> @Lawndad Have you used that product before? If so, good results?


I don't recall using this specific one but I try to use them because they are so convenient. I know they are probably "watered down" like some have said but they still contain the AI propiconzole which is what I was looking for. I used the Blag Flag hose end fungicide with insecticide last year and I had good results with that. That has a less % of propiconizle so I was trying this one and of course it got washed out!  I did recently use the Spectircide one last, right after my Scotts EX granular application but I didn't visually see too much of a difference. My idea this season is to use Scotts EX with azoystrobin and rotate my hose end applications with propiconizole, basically giving me the idea of Headway G but not exactly.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

Lawndad said:


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10-14 days


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

Turfguy93 said:


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Sounds like a plan, thanks. :thumbup:


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

Thanks for everyone's help. I will be seeking better weather apps. in the future. :lol:


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

Lawndad said:


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No problem!


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

Since we are on the topic of hose end fungicide sprayers, does anyone know of any other good ones other than the Black Flag, Spectracide and Bayer (that all contain propiconizole)? I haven't seen any others out there. Like I mentioned, I tend to use them for convenience. I considered on trying to measure and calibrate an empty bottle and see if I can use something like Patch Pro in it rather than use my backpack sprayer which takes much more time to mix, spray and clean. Just some random thoughts...


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## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

Lawndad said:


> ...I considered on trying to measure and calibrate an empty bottle and see if I can use something like Patch Pro in it rather than use my backpack sprayer...


No real need to calibrate the bottle, it is designed to mix at the proper rate. Check the viscosity of whatever brand sprayer product you are using. If it is thin and water-like, you can dilute your Patch Pro with water to match the propiconazole rate on the sprayer product and refill the same bottle. Be aware though, if the product is thicker than water, the mixing rate and disbursement of droplets will be off.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Miggity I disagree about the bottle being design to mix at the proper rate. The bottle uses the Bernoulli principle to suck the content of the bottle and mix it with the flow of water. But the flow of water is a variable based on the spigot available pressure and GPM. Another variable is the walking speed of who is holding the bottle and their pattern since it is not easy to stop the flow and reposition.


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## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

@g-man I agree with your variables, but they exist to the same degree with the original product dispensed. All I am saying is that if the replacement liquid viscosity is the same as the original product, and the if AI percentage is the same as the original product, the bottle will perform the same when refilled. I think these consumer-use big box store fungicides are dilute enough that they can account for speed of walking, pressure differences, etc. In other words, they have a fudge factor built in, but are accurate enough to keep application rates close enough to the intended rate so as not to get outside of a safe application rate. I would be more concerned about proper surfactant use and effectiveness than water pressure and walking speed.


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## nclawnguy (Jun 27, 2017)

I agree the ready to spray products are convenient. But I would invest in a good backpack sprayer and mix your own product. Unfortunately with RTS products, you are limited to propiconizole since immunox switched over from myclobutanil a few years ago.


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

nclawnguy said:


> I agree the ready to spray products are convenient. But I would invest in a good backpack sprayer and mix your own product. Unfortunately with RTS products, you are limited to propiconizole since immunox switched over from myclobutanil a few years ago.


I have a handpump 4gal backpack sprayer that does the job but I was looking to to try some other easier avenues. Last season I wasted my time and money doing the Sernade thing with my backpack sprayer and then used Patch Pro in the same backpack sprayer after I saw no results from the Serenade. Maybe I didn't give it enough time but either way never again. It was too much time and effort.


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

G-man and Miggity - I know what both of your are saying it's definitely hard to "calibrate" or test the ready to spray bottles given some variables.

The first thing to figure out is how long does it take to get 1 gallon of water out of the bottle.

Then let's just say I was going to put Patch Pro in that bottle and I needed 2oz of product to 1 gallon of water output. After I saw how much time it took to get 1 gallon of water out of it, I would need to make sure that 2oz of Patch Pro was emptied from the bottle which wold give me my 2oz of Patch Pro to 1 gallon of water output. If I didn't have 2oz of Patch Pro missing then my rate/gallon of water wouldn't match up and I couldn't use it. That is my thinking but I haven't tested any of it yet. Am I making sense?

Basically, I am trying to and wanted to test these empty bottles with more of a commercial product rather than using my backpack sprayer. I am not too concerned on the size of the droplets as some may say a mister is better. I am still getting the foliar application that I want which I am good with. It takes about 6 minutes to empty that blue (BioAdvanced)Bayer bottle yesterday to the probably 40 -45 minutes backpack.


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

If going big box ease, I'd personally just pick up the Scotts Disease EX and spread that since it's a darn good fungicide, it'll probably be easier to get even coverage vs hose end spray, and it's competitively priced.


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## nclawnguy (Jun 27, 2017)

Lawndad said:


> I have a handpump 4gal backpack sprayer that does the job but I was looking to to try some other easier avenues. Last season I wasted my time and money doing the Sernade thing with my backpack sprayer and then used Patch Pro in the same backpack sprayer after I saw no results from the Serenade. Maybe I didn't give it enough time but either way never again. It was too much time and effort.


The only time I tried the sernade thing was 5 or so years ago, had a brown patch outbreak. Did some research and came up with a chemical fungicide rotation starting in May through August. Never had disease outbreak since.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Serenade is a good product, but it is not a miracle item, otherwise you would see Scott selling it. Andy uses it, but he has a nice soil in a different climate. He preaches as great, but I don't recall anyone else claiming success. Virginiagal posted a study of serenade combined with fungicide improved the control, but it takes too much time to be applying it.

I think adjusting your cultural practices (irrigate in the am, lower your hoc is the soil is humid, not push for more top grow, etc) help, but also don't hesitate to apply a fungicide when needed. I tend to avoid them, but I'm ready to apply when needed. While I get the desire for something simple, I prefer the proper sprayer for it, since I don't want to compromise control of the fungus over ease of application.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Propiconazole will treat dollar spot as either a foliar or root drench. It is an upwardly mobile systemic fungicide so will go from the roots to the leaves. Since it is a systemic fungicide it is not washed off by rain or irrigation once it is absorbed. Depending on application rate it will provide protection for 2-4 weeks. I can't find a label for the hose end sprayer to see their recommended dosing interval. If you compare to a more professional formulation (e.g. Banner MAXX), you can do some math to find comparable applications rates and determine dosing interval. Generally speaking, curative application rates are higher than preventive. Higher application rates have a longer window before needing redosing.


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## nclawnguy (Jun 27, 2017)

I believe Propiconazole, as with all DMI's, protect for up to 14 days.


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

vnephologist said:


> If going big box ease, I'd personally just pick up the Scotts Disease EX and spread that since it's a darn good fungicide, it'll probably be easier to get even coverage vs hose end spray, and it's competitively priced.


I just recently used it so it's definitely good to rotate in there with another AI and mode. :thumbup:


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

nclawnguy said:


> Lawndad said:
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> > I have a handpump 4gal backpack sprayer that does the job but I was looking to to try some other easier avenues. Last season I wasted my time and money doing the Sernade thing with my backpack sprayer and then used Patch Pro in the same backpack sprayer after I saw no results from the Serenade. Maybe I didn't give it enough time but either way never again. It was too much time and effort.
> ...


That sounds like a good outcome for you then. What was your rotation?


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

g-man said:


> Serenade is a good product, but it is not a miracle item, otherwise you would see Scott selling it. Andy uses it, but he has a nice soil in a different climate. He preaches as great, but I don't recall anyone else claiming success. Virginiagal posted a study of serenade combined with fungicide improved the control, but it takes too much time to be applying it.
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> I think adjusting your cultural practices (irrigate in the am, lower your hoc is the soil is humid, not push for more top grow, etc) help, but also don't hesitate to apply a fungicide when needed. I tend to avoid them, but I'm ready to apply when needed. While I get the desire for something simple, I prefer the proper sprayer for it, since I don't want to compromise control of the fungus over ease of application.


Yes, I agree way too much time for that.

Do you drop your HOC if it's humid out? I always cut my TTTF at 3.5" in the summer but never thought to drop it to 3". You think that would really help even though it would "stress" it out more with the heat and humidity?


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

bernstem said:


> Propiconazole will treat dollar spot as either a foliar or root drench. It is an upwardly mobile systemic fungicide so will go from the roots to the leaves. Since it is a systemic fungicide it is not washed off by rain or irrigation once it is absorbed. Depending on application rate it will provide protection for 2-4 weeks. I can't find a label for the hose end sprayer to see their recommended dosing interval. If you compare to a more professional formulation (e.g. Banner MAXX), you can do some math to find comparable applications rates and determine dosing interval. Generally speaking, curative application rates are higher than preventive. Higher application rates have a longer window before needing redosing.


The problem I ran into with my hose end sprayer application is that it poured right after. There couldn't have been much time for anything to get absorbed unfortunately. So, it just went into the soil and hopefully some of it will work its way upward. I did recently apply Jonathan Green's Love Your Soil which is suppose to help assist any application and help with penetration. So I had that working in my favor too.


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## nclawnguy (Jun 27, 2017)

Lawndad said:


> That sounds like a good outcome for you then. What was your rotation?


I tweaked it a few times, here was my go to.

5/15-6/14 - Azoxystrobin
6/15-6/30 - Myclobutanil or Propiconazole
7/1-7/14 - Thiophanate-Methyl or *chlorothalonil (*not labeled for residential use)
7/15-8/14 - Azoxystrobin
8/15-8/31 - Myclobutanil or Propiconazole

Most of my apps were foliar.


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## SJ Lawn (May 7, 2018)

g-man said:


> Serenade is a good product, but it is not a miracle item, otherwise you would see Scott selling it. Andy uses it, but he has a nice soil in a different climate. He preaches as great, but I don't recall anyone else claiming success. Virginiagal posted a study of serenade combined with fungicide improved the control, but it takes too much time to be applying it.
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> I think adjusting your cultural practices (irrigate in the am, lower your hoc is the soil is humid, not push for more top grow, etc) help, but also don't hesitate to apply a fungicide when needed. I tend to avoid them, but I'm ready to apply when needed. While I get the desire for something simple, I prefer the proper sprayer for it, since I don't want to compromise control of the fungus over ease of application.


+1

Andy only had about 3 days of daytime highs exceeding 90 degrees during June, July and August last year.
My area in Central/South Jersey had 15 days. Serenade was okay, not great for me last year.
Charlotte, NC had 42 days !


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

nclawnguy said:


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Looks like a nice spread. I guess you bought the Azoxy in liquid. That stuff is expensive! What names were your others? I am guessing Eagle for Myclobutani and there are a bunch of Propiconazoles out there. Was you T-Meth a granular? I think Scott's older fungicide was T-Meth but a homeowner's grade. I was considering using the Cholorothalonil in the Daconil concentrate but some said it turns your lawn white and it's not labeled to treat lawns at least in Nj. :thumbup:


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## nclawnguy (Jun 27, 2017)

Lawndad said:


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This is what I used, name brands.

Azoxystrobin - Heritage DF 50.
Myclobutanil - Eagle.
Propiconazole - Propiconazole 14.3
Thiophanate-Methyl - Clearys 3336F
Chlorothalonil - Daconil, yes turned lawn white. Not labeled anywhere for residential, use at your own risk.


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

nclawnguy said:


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Cool thanks for sharing.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Azoystrobin and Myclobutanil are both systemic fungicides. If you are treating a foliar disease, they do not need to be watered in, but will still move upward into the leaves if they are watered in. For soil based diseases, you want to water them in. I generally use 0.2 inches of irrigation. I often apply before a rain as I do not have irrigation in my back lawn. They are not downwardly mobile to any significant degree in the plant so they will not reach the roots from a foliar application.


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

Sorry for the delay. Just getting back onto the forum but thank you for that info. It will help this year.



bernstem said:


> Azoystrobin and Myclobutanil are both systemic fungicides. If you are treating a foliar disease, they do not need to be watered in, but will still move upward into the leaves if they are watered in. For soil based diseases, you want to water them in. I generally use 0.2 inches of irrigation. I often apply before a rain as I do not have irrigation in my back lawn. They are not downwardly mobile to any significant degree in the plant so they will not reach the roots from a foliar application.


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