# Saving $$$



## The Lawnfather (May 2, 2020)

What are your best way to save money without sacrificing performance. I'm most interested in grub control, disease, and organic ferts/ matter. Scotts grubex has been a yearly expense, but I've been using bayer recently to cut cost. Milo has been my summer app, but have been thinking about possibly using soy/ chicken feed. 
I've been trying to incorporate liquids as much as possible, but they come with a heavy price tag and you run the risk of them going bad before you use entire bottle. Treating 20,000 sq cool season mix, mostly tttf,thx


----------



## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

I for one am big on organics. Granted that according to this forum, I am in the Tier 1 category:

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1595

If you are in Tier 2 or 3, you may not be satisfied with the performance of going fully organic.

If you are used to traditional lawn care, organics will be a transition. You have to think slow motion. You won't get the immediate gratification, and organic lawn care will be more expensive initially. However, in the long run, it will be LESS expensive and will require less attention.

As you say, Grubex is a yearly expense. Milky Spore is an organic grub control. It is initially very expensive, but one treatment lasts almost 10 years. One caveat is if you have used Grubex this year, I would not try using an organic grub control until at least a year from now as the Grubex may kill the spores in Milky Spores rendering it useless.

Organic fertilizers like Espoma are definitely more expensive than traditional synthetic fertilizers. However, they are slower release and last longer. Think of a synthetic fertilizer as an energy drink and organic fertilizer as a balanced diet. Get the idea? With slower and less intense forms of nitrogen from organic fertilizers, you will also be less likely to have pests and disease. The one caveat with organic fertilizers is that they require microbes to break them down into usable nutrients for plants. So a late fall feeding with an organic fertilizer will be useless until temps warm in the spring - if it hasn't leached out of the soil by then! A late summer or early spring app is more appropriate. Soil temps need to be at least 50 before organics start to become available.

Pre-emergents is where using organics is tricky. Corn gluten is said to be an effective pre-emergent. However, corn gluten is also a nitrogen source. In order for it to be effective, it needs to be applied at twice the feeding rate. That has its implications both environmentally as well as overloading your lawn with nitrogen going into summer - because it's slow release, there will be too much nitrogen being released in the heat of summer at a time when your lawn is going into self-preservation mode and will be stressed by too much nitrogen.


----------



## The Lawnfather (May 2, 2020)

My current way of thinking is to incorporate a hybrid lawn program. Trying to have a living organic soil while assisting synthetically. Reason for this is I'm trying to increase root cycling as I deal with lawn debris. My hope is that if I can help microbial activity it should help? My plan is to drop clippings more often and apply next dethatch and was thinking of adding lesco biospyxtrum(think that's what it's called) during warmer temperatures. Building microbial activity is something I'm going to add to my bag o tricks, so any ideas I'm open to hearing, thx
Lastly I thought I posted this to cool season lawns but it ended up in general discussion, any way of moderator moving it


----------



## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

It's possible the mods moved it, although they usually drop a note in the thread letting you know.

A hybrid program is possible. But if you want good microbial activity, you need to stop chemical pesticides and fungicides. Even some organic pesticides can be toxic so read up on those carefully. For example, organic treatments that are concentrated forms of things that occur in nature are still toxic to many life forms. However, organic treatments that are parasitic or predatory (nematodes or Milky Spore) or that work mechanically (diometacious earth) are OK.

Synthetic fertilizers should be used sparingly. Because of their fast release nature, anything not used by plants will end up leaching or running off into water ways.

Have you had a soil test? If not, it would be a good idea to get one through your state's cooperative extension. That way you can find out what you really need and what you don't. Applying any nutrients your lawn doesn't need is just a waste of $$ and pollutes the ground water.

Definitely drop grass clippings, don't bag. That is free nitrogen and organic matter. As you transition to a more organic program, you should have less problems with thatch.


----------



## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Moved to Cool Season.


----------



## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

I find buying at the end of the season for the next season the way to save some coin


----------



## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

M32075 said:


> I find buying at the end of the season for the next season the way to save some coin


This works if you time things just right. Get it too late and your choices become slim.


----------



## The Lawnfather (May 2, 2020)

Yard mastery has a small liquid bottle for grubs, I'm hoping it comes back in stock.


----------



## fajitamondays (Nov 20, 2020)

Take a look at Bay State Fertilizer, for a potential source of cost-effective biosolid derived fertilizer if your soil isn't high on phos. I saw that your profile says you're in Mass.
https://www.baystatefertilizer.com/

A related "trip report" post here on TLF from 2018: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4736


----------



## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

The Lawnfather said:


> What are your best way to save money without sacrificing performance. I'm most interested in grub control, disease, and organic ferts/ matter. Scotts grubex has been a yearly expense, but I've been using bayer recently to cut cost. Milo has been my summer app, but have been thinking about possibly using soy/ chicken feed.
> I've been trying to incorporate liquids as much as possible, but they come with a heavy price tag and you run the risk of them going bad before you use entire bottle. Treating 20,000 sq cool season mix, mostly tttf,thx


If you are looking to save money, liquid apps def seem to be the way to go. Ammonium Sulfate and Urea wouldnt be the organic route you are looking for, but they are definitely more cost efficient in terms of $/lb of N


----------



## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

The Lawnfather said:


> Yard mastery has a small liquid bottle for grubs, I'm hoping it comes back in stock.


I just noticed you're in MA. I am as well. Here in the CT River valley, soil is very sandy.

UMass does soil testing.

Where in MA are you?


----------



## The Lawnfather (May 2, 2020)

Bristol County, I have been using site one for soil testing


----------



## TheThirstyTurtle (May 3, 2019)

The Lawnfather said:


> Milo has been my summer app, but have been thinking about possibly using soy/ chicken feed.


You may want to see if there are other local, cheaper alternatives to milo. Here in NJ there is a local product called Oceangro that is similar to Milo, that has been cheaper and easier to obtain than Milo. I've read that other states have similar types of biosolid products, which can maybe save you some money compared to buying milo at the big box stores.


----------



## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Deadlawn said:


> Synthetic fertilizers should be used sparingly. Because of their fast release nature, anything not used by plants will end up leaching or running off into water ways.


This isn't always practical. I have 38K sq. ft. I would need a second mortgage to afford organic fertilizer.

There aren't many options in Canada. The best organic fert in Ontario is a 9-2-2 and retails for $70 for a 50lb bag. I would need 418 lbs just to apply 1lb N per K. That's over $600 for one application.

Going organic is much more cost effective on a smaller yard.


----------



## Ngilbe36 (Jul 23, 2020)

Harts said:


> This isn't always practical. I have 38K sq. ft. I would need a second mortgage to afford organic fertilizer.
> 
> There aren't many options in Canada. The best organic fert in Ontario is a 9-2-2 and retails for $70 for a 50lb bag. I would need 418 lbs just to apply 1lb N per K. That's over $600 for one application.
> 
> Going organic is much more cost effective on a smaller yard.


I am definitely in agreement with @Harts here. Ive got a smaller yard than him but its really just not practical from a financial standpoint. I think one of the best ways to save money is to mulch. Bagging is just throwing away nutrients.


----------



## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Harts said:


> Deadlawn said:
> 
> 
> > Synthetic fertilizers should be used sparingly. Because of their fast release nature, anything not used by plants will end up leaching or running off into water ways.
> ...


My previous comment on "using synthetics sparingly" was not that you SHOULD use organics instead, but rather not to overapply synthetics. Over applying wastes product and money and pollutes ground water.

You really don't need more than 2 lbs of N/1000 sq ft per year for most lawn grasses. Half of that is provided by your clippings, the other half by fertilizing. So one 0.5 lb N app in spring and another 0.5 lb N app in fall is sufficient. Some people on this forum even split these up into smaller more frequent apps as to what they describe as "spoon feeding", although I don't know how much time you want to spend working on your lawn.

Yes, organic is expensive for a large lawn, but I think your calculation is off. One app of that organic fertilizer at 0.5 lbs N/1000 sq ft or 5.5 lbs of total prodyct/1000 sq ft come to close to $300. That's still a good chunk of change. If you really want to go organic, are there possibly chicken farms in the area that would be willing to sell or even give away chicken manure?


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Deadlawn said:


> You really don't need more than 2 lbs of N/1000 sq ft per year for most lawn grasses. Half of that is provided by your clippings, the other half by fertilizing. So one 0.5 lb N app in spring and another 0.5 lb N app in fall is sufficient. Some people on this forum even split these up into smaller more frequent apps as to what they describe as "spoon feeding", although I don't know how much time you want to spend working on your lawn.


This is such a bad advise to have a healthy lawn.


----------



## JERSEY (Sep 9, 2018)

totally agree with gman


----------



## Harts (May 14, 2018)

@Deadlawn I appreciate where you are coming from. But to manage a tier 3 lawn like I did at my old house (2,500 sq. ft.) and like I plan to with my current lawn, 2lbs of N isn't nearly enough.

I have yet to see a study that suggests how much actual nitrogen is returned to the lawn by mulching clippings. I'm not saying it's 0% but I highly doubt it's significant.

I have spent years researching alternatives in Ontario. There aren't many. These are also well documented by other Canadians on this forum.

FWIW, I have no issues with someone being 50%, 75% or even 100% organic. It just isn't for me.


----------



## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

Deadlawn said:


> Harts said:
> 
> 
> > Deadlawn said:
> ...


A lot of that depends on what type of lawn you want to have. There are alot of people who apply 0 nitrogen and are perfectly content with their lawns. I will say though, that for the majority of the people here who aspire to have a really nice lawn, applying 1lb of N for the entire year wont get it done.


----------



## The Lawnfather (May 2, 2020)

fajitamondays said:


> Take a look at Bay State Fertilizer, for a potential source of cost-effective biosolid derived fertilizer if your soil isn't high on phos. I saw that your profile says you're in Mass.
> https://www.baystatefertilizer.com/
> 
> A related "trip report" post here on TLF from 2018: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4736


I checked them out. Let me know if I got this right. You have to email them, verify if they have stock, make an appointment to pick up, and they only take checks? All they sell is organic fertilizer?


----------



## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

The Lawnfather said:


> fajitamondays said:
> 
> 
> > Take a look at Bay State Fertilizer, for a potential source of cost-effective biosolid derived fertilizer if your soil isn't high on phos. I saw that your profile says you're in Mass.
> ...


Sounds like a real PITA.


----------



## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

jha4aamu said:


> A lot of that depends on what type of lawn you want to have. There are alot of people who apply 0 nitrogen and are perfectly content with their lawns. I will say though, that for the majority of the people here who aspire to have a really nice lawn, applying 1lb of N for the entire year wont get it done.


Granted this is true. I'm a Tier 1 guy, so if it's green and grows, I'm happy. I'm not Hank Hill, LOL!

When I lived in NJ, I probably fertilized twice in over 20 years. A good part of that lawn was zoysia and it was thick as a carpet without doing anything to it! The rest of the lawn was in shade and had mostly fine fescues. Soil there was mostly clay and held moisture and nutrients well. Growing grass there was like shooting fish in a barrel.

Now I'm in MA where soil is very sandy and doesn't hold onto moisture and nutrients well. Growing grass here has been a challenge to say the least - hence my screen name "Deadlawn". I've made significant progress over the last two years where I actually like the way most of my lawn looks. But it definitely needs more attention here in order to look nice than it did back in NJ.

@The Lawnfather , I'm not sure what Tier you fall into here.


----------



## Clay19 (10 mo ago)

Baystate Fertilizer is a biosolid, similar to Milorganite, except that it is $3.50 for a 40 lb bag. (At least that was the price the last time I checked. They're not showing the price right now on the website, so I wonder if it went up.) You buy it directly from the processing plant and they do take payments online.

Because it's an industrial plant and not a retail-type operation, you do have to make sure they have the product available ahead of time. I bought there once in 2020 and it was one vehicle after another coming to load up.


----------



## The Lawnfather (May 2, 2020)

Clay19 said:


> Baystate Fertilizer is a biosolid, similar to Milorganite, except that it is $3.50 for a 40 lb bag. (At least that was the price the last time I checked. They're not showing the price right now on the website, so I wonder if it went up.) You buy it directly from the processing plant and they do take payments online.
> 
> Because it's an industrial plant and not a retail-type operation, you do have to make sure they have the product available ahead of time. I bought there once in 2020 and it was one vehicle after another coming to load up.


You have a bag label?


----------



## The Lawnfather (May 2, 2020)

jha4aamu said:


> The Lawnfather said:
> 
> 
> > What are your best way to save money without sacrificing performance. I'm most interested in grub control, disease, and organic ferts/ matter. Scotts grubex has been a yearly expense, but I've been using bayer recently to cut cost. Milo has been my summer app, but have been thinking about possibly using soy/ chicken feed.
> ...


Not looking to be "organic" but trying to incorporate some organic practices to build soil health.


----------



## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

The Lawnfather said:


> Not looking to be "organic" but trying to incorporate some organic practices to build soil health.


That's the best reason to transition to organic.


----------



## San (Jun 21, 2021)

The Lawnfather said:


> Clay19 said:
> 
> 
> > Baystate Fertilizer is a biosolid, similar to Milorganite, except that it is $3.50 for a 40 lb bag. (At least that was the price the last time I checked. They're not showing the price right now on the website, so I wonder if it went up.) You buy it directly from the processing plant and they do take payments online.
> ...


See here: https://www.mwra.com/publications/fertilizerbrochure.pdf

Just know that it's recycled solids from wastewater.

But the biggest thing is you have to buy a pallet, which is 50 bags.

Pallet dimensions:
Height: 6" Width: 42" Length: 42" Weight: 2000 lbs (1 ton)


----------



## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

You might be able to score some soybean meal as fertilizer cheap I heard of guys here getting 50 pound bags for $10


----------



## fajitamondays (Nov 20, 2020)

The Lawnfather said:


> fajitamondays said:
> 
> 
> > Take a look at Bay State Fertilizer, for a potential source of cost-effective biosolid derived fertilizer if your soil isn't high on phos. I saw that your profile says you're in Mass.
> ...


I'm 3,000 miles away from MA, so I really have no clue how they do business. Just wanted to point out a potential source of org fert near you (?), if you were not already aware of it.


----------



## confused_boner (Apr 5, 2021)

look for torn bags at the hardware store (ask associates too) I just got a 50lb bag of lesco 24-0-11 for $22 (normally $45)


----------



## Lawn Whisperer (Feb 15, 2021)

Deadlawn said:


> You really don't need more than 2 lbs of N/1000 sq ft per year for most lawn grasses. Half of that is provided by your clippings, the other half by fertilizing.


I noticed in your profile that you maintain  clovers  in your lawn. That's cheating, your getting free nitrogen. :nod: :thumbup:

Edit: I take it back. It's not cheating, it's very actually very smart. Just note that your playing with a handicap compared to the most of us.


----------



## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Lawn Whisperer said:


> Deadlawn said:
> 
> 
> > You really don't need more than 2 lbs of N/1000 sq ft per year for most lawn grasses. Half of that is provided by your clippings, the other half by fertilizing.
> ...


LOL! I'll take any handicap I can get! To be clear, while my clover is doing well in part shade areas, it seems to perish in full sun. So I'm actually having better luck with grass in full sun than clover.

IMO, I like the way it blends in with the grass. But if you decide to grow clover in your lawn, keep in mind that it creeps, so don't seed it near any edges, only in open spaces.


----------



## Thick n Dense (May 7, 2019)

Compost Tea instead of fertilizer.

Supposedly if you make some compost, mix with water, then spray.
The natural bacteria/fungi could replace the amount of N required.

Disclaimer that I haven't tried myself but going to this summer.
There is a lot of resources about this on the web to research.

If that works, you could replace your N costs.


----------



## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Thick n Dense said:


> Compost Tea instead of fertilizer.
> 
> Supposedly if you make some compost, mix with water, then spray.
> The natural bacteria/fungi could replace the amount of N required.
> ...


You can do this, but have to be careful that the solution stays aerobic. If it goes anaerobic, it can be toxic to plants.


----------



## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

.5lb N of milo after the first mow, then about every week .1lb N per k of foliar Urea till the end of the season. equals to be about 3lbs/k. Foliar iron as needed as well, about as basic as tier 3 gets minus fungicides for me.


----------



## Ngilbe36 (Jul 23, 2020)

Thick n Dense said:


> Compost Tea instead of fertilizer.
> 
> Supposedly if you make some compost, mix with water, then spray.
> The natural bacteria/fungi could replace the amount of N required.
> ...


I am doing a trial on this right now
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=34811


----------



## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Deadlawn said:


> The Lawnfather said:
> 
> 
> > fajitamondays said:
> ...


If it's still 3.50 a bag, it's worth the headache. Better than paying $20+ for a bag of milo, with basically the same output


----------

