# Crabgrass or Dallisgrass?



## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Greetings everybody!

I'm a newbie here on the forum, however, I use this forum as a go-to source for research. Normally, I can research on this forum and come to conclusions myself, however, I am completely stumped on this. I am a new home owner, and I have Bermuda Tif419. My wife and I built the house in March of 2016 and had Bermuda put down.

Everything was going great until I aerated my yard a few weeks ago. I travel for the military as a consultant and I got was injured and needed to have surgery in which I was out of commission for 14 days. Normally I mow every 4 days and I mulch the clippings. I also water infrequently once a week to a depth of 6 inches (screw driver test to confirm). Since I was unable to maintain my turf post-aeration, I got a nice welcoming back present with an infestation of either Crabgrass or Dallisgrass. I have tried to come to a conclusion as to which one it is so I can develop a game plan to eliminate it, however, I am at a loss. I know the aeration brought up the seeds, but I didn't expect to have surgery right after I was aerating.

To me this looks like Crabgrass, but I've read it could be dallisgrass. I am losing my mind as to which one it is due to the fact that I want it gone (my house is the first one in the neighborhood so I want it to be attractive). Any thoughts on what weed species this is? I try to have an organic approach to lawn care and typically hand pull weeds, but since there are so many, I am willing to spot spray with a chemical if needed (I have access to Quinclorac) and the other RTU sprays.

Any thoughts? I'd greatly appreciate the help! My apologies for only one picture, I'm not too sure how to upload them on to the post.

Tex


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Looks like crabgrass to me.


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> Looks like crabgrass to me.


Thanks for the reply. Is the best approach to bag the clippings? Or continue to mulch but mow more frequently to prevent seed?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

My guess is also crabgrass, but I'm terrible at identifying weeds.

Welcome to TLF! Make yourself at home! :thumbup:


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Tex86 said:


> Thanks for the reply. Is the best approach to bag the clippings? Or continue to mulch but mow more frequently to prevent seed?


It looks like it's at a stage where you could spray it and prevent it from going to seed. Do you maintain a pre-emergent regimen?


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Ware said:


> Tex86 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the reply. Is the best approach to bag the clippings? Or continue to mulch but mow more frequently to prevent seed?
> ...


That is the single most important aspect I forgot to apply in weed maintenance. At the time i was unaware of applying a pre-e and have kicked myself in the butt ever since.

My Protocol moving forward is to use granular Balan (pre-e) in August. And again in early Feb of 2018.

I applied some Quinclorac this morning but 2 hours later we got a brief rain fall. So I'm unsure if it had time to set.


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Ware said:


> My guess is also crabgrass, but I'm terrible at identifying weeds.
> 
> Welcome to TLF! Make yourself at home! :thumbup:


Thanks for the welcome Ware!


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

No reason you can't put pre-emergent down right now. There's more crabgrass on the way.

2 hours is probably not enough. Spray again and add a little bit of dish soap to the mix to help it stick.


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> No reason you can't put pre-emergent down right now. There's more crabgrass on the way.
> 
> 2 hours is probably not enough. Spray again and add a little bit of dish soap to the mix to help it stick.


Awesome. I have been going back and forth on if I should apply a Pre-E now, or wait until August, but you're right, we haven't even hit 95+ temps so I'm sure i haven't seen the majority of it. I'll place an order for the Pre-E right away if they still have it in stock. if not, do you have any recommendations? I'd prefer a granular as I feel more confident dispersing the product.

Thanks for the tip for the surfactant. It crossed my mind, but I'm not sure why I dismissed it. I'll go ahead and apply it after lunch as it's a good 89 degrees right now and sunny.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Tex86 said:


> ...I'll place an order for the Pre-E right away if they still have it in stock. if not, do you have any recommendations? I'd prefer a granular as I feel more confident dispersing the product...


How much area are you working with? If you don't have a huge lawn, this CRAB-Ex granular product available at Lowe's is a decent option. The active ingredient is Prodiamine, which is what most of us here like to spray in liquid form. Prodiamine has a longer length of control than some other active ingredients. It looks like a bag treats 5k ft2, and you would also get a Nitrogen feeding out of it.


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Ware said:


> Tex86 said:
> 
> 
> > ...I'll place an order for the Pre-E right away if they still have it in stock. if not, do you have any recommendations? I'd prefer a granular as I feel more confident dispersing the product...
> ...


Thanks for the input Ware! I'm working with 3,500 sq/ft of turf. I hear prodiamine is the best and I like the price point for that. However, since I'm applying this pre-e while weeds are still up, would the nitrogen be counterintuitive and benefit the weeds as well?

Thanks!!


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Prodiamine is my pre-em of choice. Typically it's sold as wettable granules and it has to be sprayed. It had advantages and disadvantages.

Advantages:
- Cost. The wettable granules are about 7 times less expensive per thousand.
- Flexibility. You can get up to 8 months of protection with 1 app, where granulars only last about 3.

Disadvantages:
- Need a sprayer to spray.
- Need a scale to make exact measurements.
- Spraying is a little more labor intensive.

Now, sticking with the granular, I hear SiteOne has granular prodiamine, so you may want to check that out. Lowe's also carries a prodiamine/ferilizer mix in my area. Another good pre-em is dithiopyr(Dimension) and HD has a Lesco 19-0-7 with Dimension.

Most importantly, get something down asap to stop the crabgrass onslaught and then you can take your time, do some research and find sources for your next application.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Tex86 said:


> Thanks for the input Ware! I'm working with 3,500 sq/ft of turf. I hear prodiamine is the best and I like the price point for that. However, since I'm applying this pre-e while weeds are still up, would the nitrogen be counterintuitive and benefit the weeds as well?
> 
> Thanks!!


Not really - I wouldn't let the weeds disrupt my fertilizer schedule. Just spray them with the appropriate post-emergent herbicide(s) and keep moving forward. Maintaining an active pre-emergent barrier will help keep new weeds from germinating.

So you wouldn't even need a whole bag to treat 3.5k. The granular stuff is more expensive, so it can become cost-prohibitive on larger lawns, but you won't have to worry about that.

Pre-emergent, spot spraying post-emergents as needed, proper fertilization, and proper mowing is a virtuous cycle. :thumbup:


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

All good thoughts posted above. I'll add that in my granular pre-m days, I used Dimension from Site One. Easy to spread and not too costly. Welcome to TLF,

dfw


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Awesome. I really appreciate the input. THe place i get my professional grade products from is out of the dithiopyr which was 36.99. So I opted to go with the Prodiamine for 60.00 with a $5.00 off coupon.

I was unable to spray today as it began raining right when I was putting my boots on. I'll spray the Quinclorac on the next sunny day. 
How long should I wait until applying the prodiamine as I am unfamiliar with the product? Also, when can I re-seed area of the yard that are thing?

Thanks guys! All of this is much appreciated!


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Don't re-seed. You have Hybrid 419 and seeded bermuda won't mix well with it. If there are bare areas, you just follow the proper cultural practices and the 419 will _quickly_ spread into them.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

$60 sounds high for a bag of granular Prodiamine, and awfully close to the price of Prodiamine 65WDG... which is a granule, but is designed to dissolve in water and spray as a liquid. Can you link the product you ordered? Just want to cross-check this one.


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

dfw_pilot said:


> Don't re-seed. You have Hybrid 419 and seeded bermuda won't mix well with it. If there are bare areas, you just follow the proper cultural practices and the 419 will _quickly_ spread into them.


Thanks DFW! I appreciate it!


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Ware said:


> $60 sounds high for a bag of granular Prodiamine, and awfully close to the price of Prodiamine 65WDG... which is a granule, but is designed to dissolve in water and spray as a liquid. Can you link the product you ordered? Just want to cross-check this one.


i just saw this.

Here is the link of the purchase I bought. I was on my phone at dinner and I didn't state the full product label. It is as you said Prodiamine 65WDG.

https://www.solutionsstores.com/prodiamine-65-wdg-barricade-herbicide

Also, this may be a foolish question, but I want to prevent the spread the spread of the crabgrass and I'm unsure if i should continue to mulch the clippings, or bag 'em?


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Prodiamine 65 WDG is the one you spray. It's in granular form, but must be dissolved and sprayed to apply.

Don't worry about bagging the crabgrass, once you get pre-emergent down it won't matter.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> Prodiamine 65 WDG is the one you spray. It's in granular form, but must be dissolved and sprayed to apply.


And is probably a lifetime supply. :thumbup:


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Tex, just remember, that what you bought doesn't go in a spreader, but a sprayer. You might want to look at a cheap bag at HD/Lowes until you have a sprayer that the WDG can be paired with.


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

j4c11 said:


> Prodiamine 65 WDG is the one you spray. It's in granular form, but must be dissolved and sprayed to apply.
> 
> Don't worry about bagging the crabgrass, once you get pre-emergent down it won't matter.


Yup, I'd rather buy the best product for the job now than waste money and time on something that is not as efficient.


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

I found the label for Prediamine and although it may not matter, I wanted to ask because I didn't see the application instructions regarding activation Should I mow then apply? Also, do i have to water in the product to activate or does the water in the pump suffice? I'm assuming a surfactant would be beneficial too?

I appreciate the patience with all my. Ok ie questions. I'm just infamilar with liquid applications.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

No surfactant - that is used for foliar absorbed products. You want the Prodiamine down in the soil. The Prodiamine label calls for at least 1/2" of rainfall or irrigation with 14 days of application.

Ask all the questions you have - that's why this site exists. :thumbup:


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

The best application method will be with a pump sprayer and not a hose-end sprayer (didn't see this mentioned so I wanted to make sure). You should water it in or let nature do it for you, but it does need to be watered in. A surfactant is not needed and usually not recommended for soil applications because you don't want the product to stick to the leaves of the grass.


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Ware said:


> No surfactant - that is used for foliar absorbed products. You want the Prodiamine down in the soil. The Prodiamine label calls for at least 1/2" of rainfall or irrigation with 14 days of application.
> 
> Ask all the questions you have - that's why this site exists. :thumbup:


Thanks Ware! That would've been frustrating if I applied the surfactant!! We have been getting alot of rain here in Texas lately, so I'm hoping mother nature will save me the trouble of moving the sprinkler around


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Spammage said:


> The best application method will be with a pump sprayer and not a hose-end sprayer (didn't see this mentioned so I wanted to make sure). You should water it in or let nature do it for you, but it does need to be watered in. A surfactant is not needed and usually not recommended for soil applications because you don't want the product to stick to the leaves of the grass.


Thanks Spammage, good to know! :thumbup:

man all of you guys are extremely helpful. I'll post back when I receive the Prodiamine!

One more (for now). Should I apply in morning when dew is on the grass, or dried up?

I'm off for tonight, I'll check again tomorrow! have a great night everybody and thanks again.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Tex86 said:


> One more (for now). Should I apply in morning when dew is on the grass, or dried up?


Doesn't matter since you have to water it in after application. The label says 14 days, but prodiamine starts to breakdown in the sun so you want to get it into the ground asap. As a matter of personal preference, I'd rather not walk through wet grass and also spraying on dry grass makes it easier to see where you already sprayed because it looks wet.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

For a foliar/contact app like an herbicide or growth regulator, I wait until the grass is dry. For soil applied products like pre-e or wetting agents, I think it's fine if the grass is wet.

I personally wouldn't push the envelope on the 14 window. I like to put mine down either the day before or the day of anticipated rainfall/irrigation.

Glad to help, and glad you're here. :thumbup:


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Thanks guys! I wrote this in another post from last no th, but next time y'all order a round of shirts, let me know!


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Tex86 said:


> Thanks guys! I wrote this in another post from last no th, but next time y'all order a round of shirts, let me know!


Nevermind. I saw the sticky for the process to order shirts, stickers, etc. I'm stoked and got my bday coming up in early July. Gonna have the wife get me a birthday gift!


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Tex86 said:


> Tex86 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks guys! I wrote this in another post from last no th, but next time y'all order a round of shirts, let me know!
> ...


Membership has grown a lot since we did the shirt order - I think it's safe to say there will be another round one of these days. Glad you found the other TLF swag in the meantime. :thumbup:


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Got my prodiamine In! I remember somebody saying that it breaks down in the sun. Should i apply it in the evening?

Also, can infuse quinclorac in 90 degree weather? I forgot to ask that earlier in the discussion.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Tex86 said:


> Got my prodiamine In! I remember somebody saying that it breaks down in the sun. Should i apply it in the evening?
> 
> Also, can infuse quinclorac in 90 degree weather? I forgot to ask that earlier in the discussion.


Prodiamine will break down in sunlight but a few days won't hurt it. Label says to water it in within 2 weeks or sporadic weed control may occur.

I've read the label a few times for Drive (quinclorac) and haven't seen any temperature restrictions on it.

You could probably mix them but doing a jar test is never a bad idea. Although I believe Drive says not to water within 24 hours.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

One is foliarly applied and the other is soil applied. I'm thinking they might both be more effective if applied individually. As indicated, the quinclorac needs to stay on the leafs and I like to water in pre-emergent immediately. Anyone try this who can provide their input?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Spammage said:


> One is foliarly applied and the other is soil applied. I'm thinking they might both be more effective if applied individually. As indicated, the quinclorac needs to stay on the leafs and I like to water in pre-emergent immediately. Anyone try this who can provide their input?


+1, maybe not necessary, but I would make two applications - as I would typically use different TeeJet nozzles for those two products. :thumbup:


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## Tex86 (Jun 4, 2017)

Spammage said:


> One is foliarly applied and the other is soil applied. I'm thinking they might both be more effective if applied individually. As indicated, the quinclorac needs to stay on the leafs and I like to water in pre-emergent immediately. Anyone try this who can provide their input?


Ill be applying separately as I want to use some dishsoap for the Quinclorac. Also, I just applied the prodiamine. I measured all applications exactly as said in instructions and saw some sprays coming out yellow, and some coming out nearly clear. I hope i did it.

I'll be watering it in tomorrow. 100 degrees is way too hot :shock:


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I have sprayed Prodiamine and Celsius together with NO problems whatsoever. I ended using the nozzle I use with the Celsius as I figured the Prodiamine will get washed down into the soil with the next rain or irrigation cycle and I have 2 weeks to "activate" it anyway. I look at as killing two birds with one stone, why spray twice when you can do it once and get the same results.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> I have sprayed Prodiamine and Celsius together with NO problems whatsoever. I ended using the nozzle I use with the Celsius as I figured the Prodiamine will get washed down into the soil with the next rain or irrigation cycle and I have 2 weeks to "activate" it anyway. I look at as killing two birds with one stone, why spray twice when you can do it once and get the same results.


With or without MSO/NIS?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Ware said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> > I have sprayed Prodiamine and Celsius together with NO problems whatsoever. I ended using the nozzle I use with the Celsius as I figured the Prodiamine will get washed down into the soil with the next rain or irrigation cycle and I have 2 weeks to "activate" it anyway. I look at as killing two birds with one stone, why spray twice when you can do it once and get the same results.
> ...


WITH MSO :thumbup:


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