# Pre soaking seeds for mini reno



## georgiadad (Aug 18, 2018)

I've got a Bermuda invasion that I'm killing off and doing an over-seed in an area that was ravaged by summer patch this year. I'm planning to spray a PGR on the blue grass and backyard fescue that I'm over-seeding.

Edit: I know some may be thinking it's a bit late to seed/ reno. But today will be this first day it won't be in the 90's here.

Step 1. Pre soaking KBG seeds- This is a new concept to me. So I will be asking several questions. First thing I did was get a large burlap sack. Once I put 10lbs of seed in it I realized this wasn't a good idea. So I bought 2 smaller burlap sacks that will fit in 5gal buckets. Much better. Here's what I've found out so far. Burlap needs to be very wet before it will absorb water. After putting the sack/seeds in the buckets of water for a couple of hours. I opened one bag up. Seed was mostly still dry. I then took a cup and poured water slowly into the bag of seed. I retied the bag at the top leaving a 4"-5" space above the seed and kneaded the bag. I could tell by feel that the seeds were getting water. Each day I change the water. After draining the burlap sack, I untie it. I then slowly pour fresh water directly into the bag of seed. I figure this will flush out the old water and give it fresh water. Once full I retie the bag. The plan is to drain the seed bag and mix them in with Milorganite.

Questions, questions, questions.

Today is day 5 of seed soaking. Everything I've read said to soak the seeds 4-5 days. What happens it I need to go to 6 or 7 days? The damn Bermuda is going down slower than I planned. Plus it hasn't rained here in a month but now that I'm ready to seed...….

PGR. Haven't used one before. I want to spray a pgr on the fescue and frontyard bluegrass. I want to slow down the fescue to give the kbg a chance to grow and the front kbg so I don't have to mow around a mini reno. How long do they take to work?

I sprayed Tenacity a few days ago. Will this slow down the weeds and make them harder to kill?


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## chrismar (May 25, 2017)

I haven't personally soaked seed, but I think @Green has, so tagging him.


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

I did it this past spring with TTTF. I was in a pinch. I took a tree down in February and had a very large empty area in my back yard. I knew kids would be out there al summer so I wanted to make sure it wasn't muddy. I had very bad rains wash away all seed and soil from the area before it could germinate in the cold soil. I only had small windows without rain and a birthday party in the yard coming up quickly...

I soaked the seed like you're doing for 5 days. Then mixed with Milorganite and spread by hand. I'm not sure if it would have gone through a spreader. I waited until I had a few clear days between rains and got mediocre germination before more rain. I'm not sure I would have gotten anything without the pre soak though. What did pop up came up in about 3 days in the end of April when it was still cold.

You want to make sure you get the seed in the soil before germination begins and the roots pop out. You will be able to see a white dot forming and he hull soften dramatically. That means that germination is coming. If the hulls begin to split, then your down to just hours before it's too late to spread the seed. If a root is popping out you may have missed the window.

I would put it out as soon as you can. You likely shortened germination, at the very least. There's a real risk of seed rot and I read when I was trying this that it's easy to kill the germinating seed with a lack of oxygen.

Good luck! Post the results


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

chrismar said:


> I haven't personally soaked seed, but I think @Green has, so tagging him.


You know, I'm still not sure of the results yet. Maybe after some more rain...the seed has not been watered much at all, so germination will be delayed I guess. I used extra seed to help account for losing some.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I can't speak for the pre soaking, but will discuss the pgr. I've read so much about it and the gdd curves that I could write a scientific paper around it.

The first time you use it, it is a slow response. Once the lawn is used to it, it seems faster and requieres less qty. Pgr suppress top growth as a percent of normal grow. For example, if you mow at 2in and it takes a 3days to get to 3in, then pgr will slow the grow to 1/3 for the same 3 days.

How long does it last depends on GDD (growing degree days). Sunny days will consume more of the effect, thus making the pgr wear out faster.

It normally takes me 3 days to see an effect. I've been using 0.4 rate.


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## georgiadad (Aug 18, 2018)

Thanks for the info guys.

I caught a break in the weather. The rains went north of me so I was able to seed this morning. 
Here's what I did. It was definitely a learning experience. First I set the bags of seed out to drain. This took about an hour before water stopped dripping out of the bags. I have a flat mortar mixing tub that I put a bag of morganite in then dumped a 5lb bag of seed on top. Didn't take but a moment to realized this ain't happening. lol Too much for the tub. So I put seed and milo into two 5gal buckets and left some in the tub. I kept mixing each and would pour one bucket into the other then into the tub. I kept doing this until all three containers look equally mixed. You have to break up some wet seed balls to get it all mixed good. I put half the mix into my spreader. At first I was unsure how this was going to go. But it spread without a hitch. For the 2nd seed bag, I split the milo between the two 5gal. buckets and the tub. Same with the seed. This worked out great. I have a long handle garden shovel that worked good mixing the seed in the buckets. Just used a flat nose shovel for the tub. I hand watered the seed into the grass. I live on a hill so a roller is out of the question. Tried that once....it wasn't pretty.

Some observations. These old eyes and a magnifying glass did not see any seeds cracking open or white dots. So hopefully I got them into the ground on time. The seeds did not feel slimey(sp), hopefully no seed rot. I think pouring the fresh water daily through the seeds may have helped that.

Didn't spray the PGR. When I started this morning there was still a thread of storms. I was afraid if I had to wait for the pgr to dry I would lose my chance to seed. Oh well. Guess I'll save it for spring.

I will try to post some pic's later


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You can still apply the PGR now and maybe tomorrow (before germination). It is rain proof really fast (I think it is an hour).


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## georgiadad (Aug 18, 2018)

g-man said:


> You can still apply the PGR now and maybe tomorrow (before germination). It is rain proof really fast (I think it is an hour).


Thanks, I'm exhausted now. I will hit it first thing in the morning. Being an early riser that will be day break.


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## georgiadad (Aug 18, 2018)

Update: The pgr didn't get down. The expected Monday/Tuesday rain came Wednesday morning and Thursday.  Thursday we got 2.5" of rain in 30minutes then Saturday we got an additional 2.25" in 1 hour. Really hoping I didn't loose too much seed.

Today is 6 day pre-soak plus 7 days in-ground. I'm seeing quite a few seedlings popping up. Makes me feel better. But need to see a lot more. My guesstimate would be 20% so far. But considering my 2011 reno took 21-28 days to germinate, this is good.

Here's some pic's of the pre-soak.
 

Seed after draining and ready to spread.
 

Mixed with milorganite and ready to spread.


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## georgiadad (Aug 18, 2018)

Pre-soak +10. Germination in the Bermuda triangle is at 50%-60%.  Looking better every day. Over-seed in some bare spots is iffy at best. I see milk and alfalfa pellets in my future. I had a sprinkler malfunction and flooded a small bare spot. Didn't catch it for a couple of days. I was worried I had killed the seed by soaking it again. But to my amazement, There are seedlings popping up this morning.

If I can get 80%-90% germination from pre-soaking I will consider it a success. Fingers crossed.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

Thanks for the post. Germination pics or it didn't happen...

I've tried this but it was a mess, never thought about mixing with Milo.


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## georgiadad (Aug 18, 2018)

probasestealer said:


> Thanks for the post. Germination pics or it didn't happen...
> 
> I've tried this but it was a mess, never thought about mixing with Milo.


hahahahahahaha….I'll get some pic's in the morning. The morning dew really makes the seedlings stand out. But then again, you'll see the damn poa that popped up too. :fight:

It took at least an hour to drain the seed bags. I wanted as much water out as I could. 1 bag of milo with 5lb's of seed was just the right mix.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

@georgiadad is Milo available in your area? Tough find here in NC


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## georgiadad (Aug 18, 2018)

@probasestealer not at the big box stores. Go to the mom and pop stores. You'll pay more but they have it. I have a Pikes Nursey right down the street. They have plenty and no problem getting it.


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## nclawnguy (Jun 27, 2017)

Milo is seriously scarce in NC, its unreal. I pick up bags here and there, have had some sucess at True Value stores.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

I was at Ace Hardware today, didn't see any.


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## georgiadad (Aug 18, 2018)

@probasestealer @nclawnguy Try going to nurseries. Especially the smaller mom and pop ones. Around here they are normally higher priced on Milo but have it.

Pre-soak + 14 days. The Bermuda Triangle is ~70% germination. But I'm seeing more seedlings popping up. I'm going to continue 3-a-day watering through Monday then cut back to once a day. Over-seed along the hellstrip is struggling as expected.

Temps here are abnormal. Thursday-90, Friday-91, Saturday 90, Today expected to be 89. Thus the 3 times a day watering. Even that may not have been enough.

Looking back at my original 2011 reno, the time line for germination seems to be the same. But I had normal temps then. Half way through this mini reno I would have to say the germination is about the same. The difference would be the amount of water I would have used considering the temps I have encountered.

This is the Bermuda Triangle. Notice the lovely lime green shoots. I had sprayed Tenacity as a pre-m. But I went back in that area and pushed seeds into the ground. I must have broken the barrier is spots.
 

The brown patch you see up front has seedlings that have just popped up. They just don't show in the big picture for some reason.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

The temps have been nuts. It's October!


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## georgiadad (Aug 18, 2018)

Belated update. News is both good and bad. Hurricane Michael was supposed to stay south of us. Giving my area ~1" of rain. But...… it drifted farther north and dumped 4.5" in ~5 hours.

I have a 12' x 24' section between my driveway and the neighbors. I've fescue seeded it twice now. Both times it's gotten washed out. Guess I'm going to have to sod it if I want any grass there.

What seed hadn't germinated or had just germinated washed away. If it didn't get roots into the ground it didn't stand a chance.

I had started 20 pots after the last heavy rain. Not expecting so much rain from Michael I left them out. They got totally destroyed.

The Bermuda Triangle is coming a long fine. I lost some late bloomers to wash out but otherwise it survived. The hellstrip is well, a hellstrip. It's coming a long ok. It had more late germinators so it took a bigger hit. Other bare spots are coming in to.

Looking to drop fert. this weekend. Also going to spray milk. I haven't decided if I should drop alfalfa pellets now or wait until spring.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Hmm, you spray milk? I've always soil apply it. What the benefit of foliar?


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## georgiadad (Aug 18, 2018)

g-man said:


> Hmm, you spray milk? I've always soil apply it. What the benefit of foliar?


I spray then water it in. What I'll probably do is spread my fert., then spray milk, then water them both in.


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## mtroberts20 (Apr 13, 2018)

g-man said:


> Hmm, you spray milk? I've always soil apply it. What the benefit of foliar?


How can you apply it other than spray? Are you using powdered milk?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You can spray and water it so it is absorbed by the soil, or spray at smaller drop size so it is absorbed by the leaves.


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