# Nothing grows after removing above ground pool



## immoody (Jul 19, 2018)

Looking for some help. Last fall I removed an above ground pool that had been in place for 5 1/2 years. When I installed the pool I used sand to level off the area where the pool was installed. When I installed the pool a vegetation killer was sprayed. Then a tarp was placed on the ground and a weed resistant ground cloth. After removing the pool the soil underneath the pool was very compacted and dark, almost black color. I also noticed that the ground did not seem to soak up any water. I assumed the was due the way the soil was compacted. My neighbor has a tiller so I tilled the soil figuring it would loosen it up. I till the soil daily deep 5-6 inches. This was last fall and it was too late to plant any grass.

This spring nothing still nothing was growing in the area where the pool was and the area around where the pool was was a smorgasbord of weeds. I decided that I was going to plant some grass. Prior to planting the grass I killed off the weeds in the surrounding area with glyphosate. I then tilled the top 2-3 inches of soil again and leveled the area. (I now know I should not have tilled.) After planting the grass still nothing grows in the area where the pool was. What will I need to do to get the grass to grow again in this area?


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## chrisverner (Jul 16, 2018)

I've never done this type of project but I think i would suggest adding both healthy soil and maybe some fertilizer as an amendment and tilling both of those in, to prep the area where the grass needs to grow. Does that area get good sunlight? When you say "planted grass" do you mean grass seed or sod? More detail will help with other replies as well. Best of luck.


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## immoody (Jul 19, 2018)

Area gets plenty of sun. I planted grass seed. The grass seed I planted germinated and is growing (along with a bunch weeds) in the area around where the pool was. Nothing grew where the actual pool was no grass and no weeds. It is like a dead zone where the pool sat.


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## FlaDave (Jul 10, 2018)

How often are you watering the bare area? It would be a good idea to water that area a few times a day until the seed sprouts cover the soil. Could be that the soil is taking a beating from direct sun and drying out really fast.


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## immoody (Jul 19, 2018)

I planted the seed on June 23rd. After planting the seed I was initially watering a few minutes 4 times a day to keep the soil moist when it did not rain. I live along the coast and it has rained virtually every day for at least the past ten days. Currently the soil is overly saturated.


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## immoody (Jul 19, 2018)

In the photo you can see where I tilled and planted. The grass seed grew on in the areas outside of where the pool actually sat. Where the pool was actually located nothing grows. Not even weeds. In the picture the greenish appearing hue is from "algae" or something and only appeared in the past couple of days after all the rainfall we have had lately. We have had over 5" of rain in the past 10-12 days.


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## Bermuda_Newbie (Jun 15, 2018)

Is it possible some chemicals leached into that area? I don't know what chemicals would do that. Maybe something from the plastic tarp?


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Dirt is cheap, your labor is free  Dig it all out at least 12 inches down, replace with fresh dirt, and then sod or seed.


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

I would say before you call in the calvary and replace the entire back yard with fresh soil, start with a soil sample of the area. You didn't say what "vegetation killer" you used when installing the pool, but is it possible that it was a soil sterilant? Some sterilants can/will remain in the soil for an entire season or longer and have both pre- and post-emergent properties. If it a sterilant was used to treat the area, maybe it's possible the pool being on top of that soil extended the life of the sterilant even further; I don't know if that is possible, just throwing ideas out there. I'm not sure that a soil sample would reveal whether or not a sterilant is in the soil, maybe @Ridgerunner or @g-man could offer there input on that. A soil sample would let you know if there were any major deficiencies you were dealing with though that needed correction.

Also, if sodding the area is not an option, you might consider transplanting some plugs from your current Bermuda vs sowing seed. The last thing you want is grow a big healthy patch of a different strand of Bermuda that look nothing like what you already have, which looks really nice from what I can see BTW. Best of luck to ya! :thumbup:


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Sorry, outside my knowledge base, That the area is totally barren, implies that seed (weed or grass) is unable to even germinate. All a seed needs is water. My guess is that either something is preventing the uptake of water, or there is something in the water that kills the seed/ stops germination (similar to a per-emergent or hydrogen sulfide). None of the possibilities that come to mind (salinity, excess Boron etc.) seem applicable or likely from a pool site, but I'm certainly not well versed enough to know what might occur or be created in soil subjected to long periods of anaerobic conditions. I can't even advise you as to what tests are likely to give useful results. Possibly, you could have the algae identified and based on the conditions in which that particular algae thrives you could decipher the cause of the problem. You need a real soil specialist/biologist/agronomist for guidance. Start with your local University agronomy department. Good luck.


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## immoody (Jul 19, 2018)

I am not sure exactly what weed killer I used. I think it was Ortho ground clear total vegetation killer. Which is glyphosate and imazapyr. Whatever I used it came from Wal-mart and I don't believe it was a sterilant.

I did a soil sample earlier this year. I took 10 plugs from around the back yard for a composite sample at least 2 maybe 3 plugs came from the "dead zone". I did a soil sample for my front yard at the same time both samples were close to the same. I may get another soil sample just from the "dead zone" and send in.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Pretty sure that's a sterilant


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

Imazapyr is definitely a soil sterilant. If that is what is causing the difficulty, unfortunately, it is not possible to inactivate sterilants already in the soil, other than with time, rainfall and irrigation gradually degrading the chemical. Or, as @SCGrassMan suggested, replace the soil. But man, it sure is hard to believe that could stay in the soil for almost 6 years and cause that much of an issue, especially at such a low concentration, unless the pool being on top of it had kept it from degrading. 
You may try transplanting some plugs or even a couple pieces of sod into the area and see how they do over a couple of weeks. It would be worth a shot to me before moving that much dirt; that a lot of work!!


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## Lawn_newbie (Jun 19, 2018)

>>In soils imazapyr is degraded primarily by microbial metabolism.
I would guess with the pool being on top not much aerobic microbial activity was present.

>> Average Soil Half-life: 25-141 days

That is a little worrying given the length of years. I would go with others and wonder if other chemicals could have leached into the soil and maybe your pH is totally out of wack.

https://www.invasive.org/gist/products/handbook/17.imazapyr.pdf


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Imazapyr can be extremely persistent if covered. Such that it is one of the herbicides specified for application under pavement. It is also very persistent if the area is under frost or snow for part of the year. Half life is also only half of the story. It is also extremely active against many grasses, especially cool season grasses. Bermuda is actually tolerant enough that highly reduced rates are usable for growth regulation and weed control in industrial or roadside situations. However, the margin between growth regulation with selective weed control and dirt is slim. It certainly is not the rate suggested by the products containing Glyphosate and Imazapyr sold as "vegetation killer".

I would be tilling 50-100 lb of activated charcoal into the area prior to trying to plant anything.


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## immoody (Jul 19, 2018)

I am really appreciating everyones inputs here. The reason I used to use the Ortho stuff is because it would stop the weeds from growing in between my fence and a cement slab. There was a 2-3" gap between the slab and fence and it was impossible to weed eat due to slab being raised. The Ortho stuff lasted longer than Roundup.

The pool was removed last October and I tilled the area at that time. We had a very wet winter. I also tilled the top 2-3 inches before planting seeds this year. Imazapyr must be extremely persistent.

Would tilling in activated charcoal be to neutralize the Imazapyr? Where would I get activated charcoal?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

immoody said:


> I am really appreciating everyones inputs here. The reason I used to use the Ortho stuff is because it would stop the weeds from growing in between my fence and a cement slab. There was a 2-3" gap between the slab and fence and it was impossible to weed eat due to slab being raised. The Ortho stuff lasted longer than Roundup.
> 
> The pool was removed last October and I tilled the area at that time. We had a very wet winter. I also tilled the top 2-3 inches before planting seeds this year. Imazapyr must be extremely persistent.
> 
> Would tilling in activated charcoal be to neutralize the Imazapyr? Where would I get activated charcoal?


When did you last spray it?

Check out this link for suppliers and info on application
http://media.clemson.edu/public/turfgrass/2016%20Pest%20Management/2016actcharcoal.pdf


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I've been busy with work I'm try to catch up. One questions that was not asked, Was this a salt water pool?

I like greendoc idea, activated carbon (used in water filters) will help absorb/neutralize. I also like the idea of soil sample/testing, but test for what?

The fastest approach would be to replace the soil.


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

immoody said:


> In the photo you can see where I tilled and planted. The grass seed grew on in the areas outside of where the pool actually sat. Where the pool was actually located nothing grows. Not even weeds. In the picture the greenish appearing hue is from "algae" or something and only appeared in the past couple of days after all the rainfall we have had lately. We have had over 5" of rain in the past 10-12 days.


Go dig a hole in this area 1'x1' 1' deep and take a picture from inside (post said picture), and of the material that you remove from within.


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## immoody (Jul 19, 2018)

It actually was a salt water pool. In the soil test I had performed this year the salt test indicated 558.08 ppm of salt and the interpretation was low. The sample was a composite from the whole back yard and not taken from just the pool area. Possibly the salt could have accumulated where the pool was located.

I will dig a hole in the morning and get some pics.

I think I am going to take a sample from the area for testing. I will get a standard soil test. Test for salt. Test for organic matter. What else should I have the sample tested for? I used the LSU ag center for the previous tests.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think the ag center might be limited on what they could test. Give them a call and explain the issue. I think you need to treat this as contaminated soil and replace it.


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## Crabbychas (Apr 25, 2018)

Here's what I'm thinking. I have an aquarium with actual soil in it to grow plants for my fish. Under the right conditions it can easily become anaerobic and toxic due to hydrogen sulfide buildup. You had a huge amount of weight on that spot for a long time. Its going to be compacted pretty far down. The ground was also probably waterlogged for a long time. Under those conditions, wet and anaerobic, you get hydrogen sulfide build up which will quickly kill almost everything exposed to it. So you have a very long lasting soil sterilant which had nothing to break it down (oxygen, bacterial activity, etc.) combined with the HS build up from the anaerobic decay of all the organic matter in the soil. Not a good combo.


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## immoody (Jul 19, 2018)

I dug a 1' x 1' x 1' hole and took pictures.


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## jonthepain (May 5, 2018)

Crabbychas said:


> Here's what I'm thinking. I have an aquarium with actual soil in it to grow plants for my fish. Under the right conditions it can easily become anaerobic and toxic due to hydrogen sulfide buildup. You had a huge amount of weight on that spot for a long time. Its going to be compacted pretty far down. The ground was also probably waterlogged for a long time. Under those conditions, wet and anaerobic, you get hydrogen sulfide build up which will quickly kill almost everything exposed to it. So you have a very long lasting soil sterilant which had nothing to break it down (oxygen, bacterial activity, etc.) combined with the HS build up from the anaerobic decay of all the organic matter in the soil. Not a good combo.


That's brilliant


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

What's it smell like? Any odor?


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

Crabbychas said:


> Here's what I'm thinking. I have an aquarium with actual soil in it to grow plants for my fish. Under the right conditions it can easily become anaerobic and toxic due to hydrogen sulfide buildup. You had a huge amount of weight on that spot for a long time. Its going to be compacted pretty far down. The ground was also probably waterlogged for a long time. Under those conditions, wet and anaerobic, you get hydrogen sulfide build up which will quickly kill almost everything exposed to it. So you have a very long lasting soil sterilant which had nothing to break it down (oxygen, bacterial activity, etc.) combined with the HS build up from the anaerobic decay of all the organic matter in the soil. Not a good combo.


One of the reasons you'd dig a hole is to uncover/expose the black layer (H2S). Looking at the picture, we should see the presence of the black layer. I don't see it. Op should have also got an overwhelming smell (rotten egg) when he was digging the hole. There's nothing that stands out.

The soil looks relatively sandy, especially in that top 3". Maybe todes are an issue? @immoody have you had a soil sample for this area? Get a nematode assay done when you send in the samples (just re-read page 1 amd saw you're sending in samples soon).


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## immoody (Jul 19, 2018)

I could not smell the presence of any H2S within the hole. Sample is in the mail.


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

@immoody Any Progress?


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## immoody (Jul 19, 2018)

I sent in a soil sample. Waiting for soil sample results before I do anything.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

immoody said:


> I sent in a soil sample. Waiting for soil sample results before I do anything.


Smart move. What did you ask them to test for?


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