# Fungus



## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Question I'm under a preventative program and I still got grey leaf spot in a small area in my front lawn. What would cause this to still happen?


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## Greyleafspot (Oct 16, 2018)

Me too. I do the azoyx mode 11 and propaconizal 3 fungicide app. Even rotated in clearys 3336. Nothing can stop grey leaf spot. I just put some daconil on it. Hopefully that will be the trick.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

I'm under a preventative program for this year tell me how do I still end up getting a fungus. This is so frustrating




I'm still under azoxystrobin at the low rate plus I'm under prostar, and 3336. What am I doing wrong?


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

How much are you irrigating and/or are you getting a lot of rainfall? What does your preventive program look like? I checked your journal but I didn't see any info about it other than a propicanizole app earlier this month. Also - has the leveling project you did helped with the drainage? If water is still pooling from rainfall/irrigation that could be the source of your grey leaf spot.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

adgattoni said:


> How much are you irrigating and/or are you getting a lot of rainfall? What does your preventive program look like? I checked your journal but I didn't see any info about it other than a propicanizole app earlier this month. Also - has the leveling project you did helped with the drainage? If water is still pooling from rainfall/irrigation that could be the source of your grey leaf spot.


Hasn't rained in four days. I sprayed azoxystrobin three weeks ago and spray prostar and 3336 last week. All preventative rates. Water never pooled in those spots that have this disease. Im really lost for why this happened. I really hope Bermuda just wins out because it never gets any fungus.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

CenlaLowell said:


> adgattoni said:
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> 
> > How much are you irrigating and/or are you getting a lot of rainfall? What does your preventive program look like? I checked your journal but I didn't see any info about it other than a propicanizole app earlier this month. Also - has the leveling project you did helped with the drainage? If water is still pooling from rainfall/irrigation that could be the source of your grey leaf spot.
> ...


What would the significant other say if you decided to hold off building the new house and resodded with Bermuda?


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

TN Hawkeye said:


> CenlaLowell said:
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> > adgattoni said:
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I don't know, but I was thinking about getting seed for sure. I know one thing I'm not spraying any more fungicide until the next preventative is due. June 1 I will spray Armada but at the curative rate.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

CenlaLowell said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
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It's such a kick in the jewels to put so much time into something and have it go south. You put enough time and effort in that lawn you will figure it out. There's enough smart people on here that can help. You'll be loving the grass by July 4th.


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## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

My Floratam can be waterlogged for days and still look great. My Palmetto/Seville/Bitter Blue, you sneeze on it and it gets a fungus.

Why do all the sod companies push the Palmetto and others? Cause they know you'll be back for more sod every few years!


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## Greyleafspot (Oct 16, 2018)

LawnRat said:


> My Floratam can be waterlogged for days and still look great. My Palmetto/Seville/Bitter Blue, you sneeze on it and it gets a fungus.
> 
> Why do all the sod companies push the Palmetto and others? Cause they know you'll be back for more sod every few years!


I agree with this 100%


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## Greyleafspot (Oct 16, 2018)

Growing up we had floratam in the front and Texas common st Augustine and some other type in the in the back. Probably Raleigh. I have replaced the Raleigh probably 5 times in 20 years. The floratam is by far the best. What's sucks is they don't even sell floratam by the piece north of Houston anymore. I can only get Raleigh unless I get a pallet.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

I've figured out, with the help of y'all, almost everything needed to keep fungus at Bay. I have new question. That is if I'm spraying azoxystrobin at the high rate which is label for 28 day control, why is it that fungus is trying to reset it's head on day 20???

My thoughts, maybe the heat here has lessen efficacy of the product.

Two, we have only rained one time in twelve days so maybe that has in overall effect on the product.

Chime in to why you would think the product did not last its full cycle.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

CenlaLowell said:


> adgattoni said:
> 
> 
> > How much are you irrigating and/or are you getting a lot of rainfall? What does your preventive program look like? I checked your journal but I didn't see any info about it other than a propicanizole app earlier this month. Also - has the leveling project you did helped with the drainage? If water is still pooling from rainfall/irrigation that could be the source of your grey leaf spot.
> ...


My Bermuda is still struggling with fungus, so don't be so sure. Of course, with rain every day and clouds for a week and 90% humidity all day, its a miracle the house, dogs, and I are not covered in fungus!


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## Easyluck (Feb 5, 2019)

For anything fungus I always refer to NC State turf files.

https://www.turffiles.ncsu.edu/diseases-in-turf/gray-leaf-spot-in-turf/

Azoxystrobin can last UP to 28 days.

My guess would be conditions listed in the link have made it favorable for GLS. You could switch to a 14 day cycle.

Do you live in a low spot near a water source where fog forms more regularly?


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

New year same issue.

Grey leaf spot is coming in I sprayed Axozystrobin at the high rate on 4/3/20 notice the spots this morning. This has got me wondering should I start spraying in March instead?? Another thing humidity here is horrible the grass is still wet at 9am so theres no telling how long water sits on the grass blades.

How do you all mow when having fungus??? Do you delay or keep on as usual?


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

@CenlaLowell I put down azoxy a couple days ago in Marietta, Ga. about a month earlier than normal.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Grass Clippins said:


> @CenlaLowell I put down azoxy a couple days ago in Marietta, Ga. about a month earlier than normal.


Something I should have done seems like


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

@CenlaLowell I was late to the party last year and my first Axoy + Propiconazole application didn't seem to do any good. On that application I sprayed both 24 hours before rainfall. On the second go round I tried something different that worked out much better. I spit the applications by spraying azoxy before rainfall and then waited for a dry spell to spray propiconazole (low volume). I think this allowed the propiconazole to actually act as a curative vs a preventive. I'm going this route again this year before the afternoon temps start hovering in low to mid 80's. Even though I got out with it a month early this year I can still see some fungus mid stalk on my fescue.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Grass Clippins said:


> @CenlaLowell I was late to the party last year and my first Axoy + Propiconazole application didn't seem to do any good. On that application I sprayed both 24 hours before rainfall. On the second go round I tried something different that worked out much better. I spit the applications by spraying azoxy before rainfall and then waited for a dry spell to spray propiconazole (low volume). I think this allowed the propiconazole to actually act as a curative vs a preventive. I'm going this route again this year before the afternoon temps start hovering in low to mid 80's. Even though I got out with it a month early this year I can still see some fungus mid stalk on my fescue.


I tend to spray one fungicide at a time also. I have a feeling when I mow it's going to make the problem much worst.


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## Jeff20 (Jun 30, 2017)

Hey Greyleafspot, were you able to see a difference in your grass from the Daconil you applied. That's what I'm going to apply when it dries up. Expecting lots of rain through Sunday. Let me know. I was told if you don't see any difference after 3 or 4 cuts to apply again.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Greyleafspot said:


> LawnRat said:
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> > My Floratam can be waterlogged for days and still look great. My Palmetto/Seville/Bitter Blue, you sneeze on it and it gets a fungus.
> ...


Same here. Floratam seems far superior to the Palmetto when it comes to its ability to cover empty patches, and recover from disease.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

CenlaLowell said:


> Grass Clippins said:
> 
> 
> > @CenlaLowell I was late to the party last year and my first Axoy + Propiconazole application didn't seem to do any good. On that application I sprayed both 24 hours before rainfall. On the second go round I tried something different that worked out much better. I spit the applications by spraying azoxy before rainfall and then waited for a dry spell to spray propiconazole (low volume). I think this allowed the propiconazole to actually act as a curative vs a preventive. I'm going this route again this year before the afternoon temps start hovering in low to mid 80's. Even though I got out with it a month early this year I can still see some fungus mid stalk on my fescue.
> ...


Are you sure its gray leaf spot? When i look a the photos it seems closer to Pythium root rot. The first thing i looked for was to see if i could find a stolon in the picture and what its condition was. It is also possible to have more than one fungus at a time. If that is the case the preventative rate may be good for one but not the other.

@Grass Clippins As for propoconozol, i threw out the remaining that i had left. 1 year ago after putting that stuff on my lawn my lawn looked worse either from burning (as too much propoconozole, or possibly other fungicides can do) or increased fungus growth. Cause my grass turned yellow and slimy looking after application. I couldn't quite figure it out. Tried it in 2 other areas and the same thing happened. A few weeks ago @greendoc mentioned propoconozol not being good for St. Aug. That was enough for me to never use it again.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

kb02gt said:


> CenlaLowell said:
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What are you using for a group 3 then?? Also I see nothing where it's bad for st Augustine in the label just Bermuda at high temps. Point me in the direction where it's bad.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

CenlaLowell said:


> kb02gt said:
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Using Myclobutanil for group 3. I've combined it with Azoxy and have had great results. However i've had great results with it by itself as well. Not as good as the combo, but just as good.

What i'm really saying about propoconozole is that i've used it and seen horrible results on 3 occasions just after a couple of days after use. I'm not sure the biology of what was really happening. Either the grass was burned from overuse or the fungus got worse which is what i think happened. From what i understand is that you can apply too much of it, so it is possible that is what i did as i was not as experienced at the time. There is also more tolerance to group 3 in general. But in my opinion i think its specific more to propoconozole. But at the same time i dont hear anyone praising propocanozole for how great it is. Only myclobutanil and azoxy get that, lol. Group 3 is not really good at knocking out brown patch or take-all-root.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)




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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Took me a while to find it but the chart above shows 2 group 3 fungicides (propiconazol & myclobutanil) acting somewhat different in terms of their efficacy and what they can kill.

These charts can be found in @LawnCareNut newsletter using the link below:

https://thelawncarenut.com/blogs/news/may-21st

Unfortunately neither of these products are great for pythium.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Almost forgot. One area that is often overlooked when it comes to fungus (especially in St. Aug) is too much Nitrogen. Too much of it encourages fungus to grow. The grass really cannot handle more than .72 - .75 lbs per 1000, preferably slow release and organic (depending). Keeping in mind that with some organics there are more steps and conversions that the grass has to make in order for it to break down that particular fertilizer. So you wouldn't want to give struggling grass organic fertilizer. Slow release, yes, but not organic. Can be thought of in a similar way to the difference between simple carbs and complex carbs. And along those similar lines too much phosphorous (if lawn is too high in this area) can prevent the grass from absorbing some nutrients (particularly calcium i believe). Humic acid should help with that. This can take some energy from the grass. But in the growing season shouldn't be a problem.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Just found this online regarding fungicide disease rotation.










Here is the link to the full article: https://www.golfdom.com/sponsoredcontent/pbi-gordon-fungicide-rotation-chess-game/

Hmmmmm, looks like the location is Cleveland Ohio, so am not quite sure how this chart would convert.


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## sabanist (Mar 28, 2019)

I started using propicanozole last week. I've owned the bottle for a couple months but i was on an azoxy, myclo rotation. I just ran dry on the myclo and tried by first ap of prop last week. The lawn seems to have responded pretty well though. Not sure if its the prop or the increased watering but today the lawn, for the first time in a while, showed signs of coming back. It was greener than it has been in some trouble areas I've been dealing with.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

sabanist said:


> I started using propicanozole last week. I've owned the bottle for a couple months but i was on an azoxy, myclo rotation. I just ran dry on the myclo and tried by first ap of prop last week. The lawn seems to have responded pretty well though. Not sure if its the prop or the increased watering but today the lawn, for the first time in a while, showed signs of coming back. It was greener than it has been in some trouble areas I've been dealing with.


Its good to hear you had great success with it. I've never tried propiconazole mixed with azoxy. That is something i may try in the headway product. I have seen the @LawnCareNut use this in what is called the "bullet proof strategy" , and I've also seen the "Bermuda Doc" (from youtube) use it as well (he azoxy/prop. combo, not headway). It may be the "switch" that is most effective. For example they do not sell myclobutanil in big box stores which may be one of the reasons for resistance of propiconazole. So when someone switches to myclobutanil they have great results, but i assume after a while those results would stop until they rotated with something else. The product i used was (and threw in the trash a couple days ago) was this one:



Each time i used it my grass was much worse and yellow. I've heard the @thegrassfactor , i think , could have been someone else though, mention that not killing the fungus or underapply the fungus product could actually cause the fungus to increase its resistance/tolerance to that product.

I'm not sure if i under applied or over applied (was just starting out in "lawn care" about 1 year ago when i used it last), or maybe if it had something to do with the gamma-cyhalothrin in it, but i'm not taking any chances this year as its a lot of work to repair this type of grass. And according to @Greendoc



Greendoc said:


> St Augustine does not react well to Propiconazole either.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Just watching a video that said a light application of peat moss can knock out take-all-root-rot. Azoxy is also labeled for this.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Why not to use propiconazole. Depending on a couple factors:


> From domyown.com (questions and answers):
> Q
> Could I burn out my grass if apply too much Propiconazole 14.3?
> At 2 oz per gallon?
> ...


- My guess here is there is not much room for error. Should the product be overlapped or misused, the outcome may not be a good one. Sort of like the difference between applying slow release and quick release nitrogen to the turf.



> From QualiPro Propiconazole 14.3 label:
> "Bermudagrass can be sensitive to Quali-Pro Propiconazole 14.3. Do not exceed 4 fl. oz. per 1000 sq. ft.
> every 30 days on any variety of bermudagrass. In Florida, do not apply Quali-Pro Propiconazole 14.3 to
> bermudagrass golf course greens when temperatures exceed 90°F."


1) I do not believe their is a 90 degree cut-off. I'm pretty sure you can get some stress applied to the turf at 80 and 85 degrees as well. But maybe that stress is recoverable.

2) Unless of course it is applied to turf that is already stressed, then it may not be recoverable.

3) That stress could be caused by the same fungus we are trying to treat.

4) Add in the curative rate, the level of stress is only going to go up.

5) Now lets factor in that we are applying this to Floratam which we know is the most sensitive version of all the St. Augustine cultivars.

6) Lets say your in Florida. 85 degrees can happen in either fall, summer or spring.

7) Everytime we mow the lawn with a dull blade or cut off more than 1/3 the blade with a sharp blade we stress the lawn. We may not see that stress, but its stressed. Same with propiconazole, just because it doesn't necessarily look stressed, doesn't mean its not stressed. It could very well be.

So maybe this is a product best kept for the Fall and Winter.


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

@kb02gt



> So maybe this is a product best kept for the Fall and Winter.


I agree fully. I torched some bermuda early last fall when it was in the 80's. I will only use propiconazole in very early spring and very late fall with preventive rates only. I learned my lesson.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Question, does any run their own propiconazle Axozystrobin mix? If so how do you run it? High rate, low rate and do you get a 30 day curative or less.....

Example do you have to run both at the high rate to obtain the 30 curative rate???


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## lambert (Sep 12, 2018)

CenlaLowell said:


> Question, does any run their own propiconazle Axozystrobin mix? If so how do you run it? High rate, low rate and do you get a 30 day curative or less.....
> 
> Example do you have to run both at the high rate to obtain the 30 curative rate???


Per 1000:

.77 Azoxy 2 SC

2oz PPZ 14.3

This is on zoysia which is more tolerant to PPZ than some other grass types. Never had an issue even going at 4oz/m ppz which is a high label rate for zoysia.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Let me reframe this question as I know the rates but I'm wondering if any running the preventative rate of both and obtaining a curative effect??

Why,

Because my Axozystrobin a.i. 22.9
Propiconozale a.i. 14.3

Up against this



Since the a.i. in the individual bottle is so much higher couldn't you mix them together at the lower rates and get a curative effect???

Thanks


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## lambert (Sep 12, 2018)

The curative rate of Headway is 3oz/m (Azoxy 3 x .0573 = 17), and (PPZ 3 x .0954 = 29)

The Curative rate of Azoxy 2 SC is .77/m. (.77 x .229 = 17) and PPZ 14.3 2oz/m (2 x .0143 = 29)

So the curative rate of Headway is a combination of the curative rates of Azoxy and PPZ.


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## Grass Clippins (Apr 30, 2018)

@CenlaLowell Have you seen this? He mixes his own Headway and tells the rates leading up to summer.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Grass Clippins said:


> @CenlaLowell Have you seen this? He mixes his own Headway and tells the rates leading up to summer.


Thanks, this is what I was thinking that you should be able to to run half rates and get that 30 day effect because of the a.i. of each individual product being so much more potent.


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## lambert (Sep 12, 2018)

CenlaLowell said:


> Grass Clippins said:
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> > @CenlaLowell Have you seen this? He mixes his own Headway and tells the rates leading up to summer.
> ...


If you look at the labels of all of the products and do the math with regard to label application rates and percentage of active ingredients, In order to apply the high or curative rate of Headway you will need to apply the high rates of Azoxy and PPZ 14.3 as a "roll your own" Headway. Look at the numbers I posted above.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

lambert said:


> CenlaLowell said:
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Thanks man, I never would have thought of figuring out like that. Appreciate it.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

CenlaLowell said:


> Question, does any run their own propiconazle Axozystrobin mix? If so how do you run it? High rate, low rate and do you get a 30 day curative or less.....
> 
> Example do you have to run both at the high rate to obtain the 30 curative rate???


Yeah Headway. That YouTube video with Matt Martin is good although he doesn't go into much detail.

Had ordered some a couple of weeks ago. I know, i know, i know i wasn't gonna touch the propaconazole, lol. 
But apparently Headway is a big deal, so am going to give it a shot in about 1-2 weeks. But first, maybe today or tomorrow, or this weekend most likely, i'm going to test a small area to see how it goes on the Floritam.

Although its listed online if you need any specifics regarding the bag, etc, then i can post it.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

kb02gt said:



> CenlaLowell said:
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> > Question, does any run their own propiconazle Axozystrobin mix? If so how do you run it? High rate, low rate and do you get a 30 day curative or less.....
> ...


Nice, I'm running a headway mix not the actual product. I'm using propiconazle 14.3 by quail pro and abound by Sygenta


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

CenlaLowell said:


> kb02gt said:
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Exactly what the guy in video did. Made his own. If this works then i will probably try making my own as well. All the best. Hope it knocks out that fungus.


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## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

Headway G has worked for me in the past. Kinda pricey...


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Am always getting those 2 confused. Heritage and Headway. Am now realizing i do not have the propoconozole in mine. Sigh...

Scotts Disease EX and Heritage are the exact same. Even the prill size is the exact same. And the Scotts is cheaper so i'll just stick to that.

Something i read about this morning and had completely forgotten about is "Seaweed". Using seaweed alone or along with your fertilizer and/or fungicide also helps to mitigate fungus issues.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

A good fungus resource:
According to Clemson University:
We can apply the combination of Azoxy + Propiconazole year round without worry of building resistance.

https://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheet/brown-patch-large-patch-diseases-of-lawns/

As a general rule from here on out I plan to apply seaweed with any liquid application i use. Might even work as a marker dye as well.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Good read. Next year I'm going to do a few things different


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Hey fellas never seen this happen to my Bermuda what is it?


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Honestly not sure. Am leaning towards a worm of some sort. Reason being is that the leaf looks okay with maybe a little fungus. The area it's in is not shaded either. That would be my best guess. Looks like it's dying from the root upward. If it was Bermuda grass decline or tarr I think there would be more yellowing.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

kb02gt said:


> Honestly not sure. Am leaning towards a worm of some sort. Reason being is that the leaf looks okay with maybe a little fungus. The area it's in is not shaded either. That would be my best guess. Looks like it's dying from the root upward. If it was Bermuda grass decline or tarr I think there would be more yellowing.


It's weird because I've never experienced anything happening to Bermuda...


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