# Newbie Looking for Advice - LCN Cool Season Ebook



## jdaltman (May 23, 2020)

Hi All,

Complete newbie to starting to take care of my own lawn. Used multiple lawn companies with ok results and decided after joining some Facebook groups and this site to take this on myself. I purchased the LCN cool season ebook and my plan is to follow his basic plan using Yard Mastery products. I am going to order a soil test this week and send that in to see what else I may need to add (lime, etc.) I'm in Western PA and this is my current plan of action:

Round 1 (APR 1-15): 
Yard Master Prodiamine Pre-Emergent (Granular - I don't have a spayer yet)
Yard Mastery Flagship Fert
RGS + Humic 12 (Sprayer with Ortho Hose End Sprayer)

Round 2 (MAY 15-30):
Yard Mastery Flagship Fert
Yard Mastery Prodiamine Pre-Emergent Granular
RGS + Humic 12

Round 3 (JUNE 15-30):
Yard Mastery Stress Blend
MicroGreene + RGS + Humic 12

Round 4 (AUGUST 1-15)
Yard Mastery Stress Blend or Double Dark
MicroGreene + RGS + Humic 12

Round 5 (AERATION & OVERSEED SEPT 15-30)

Round 6 (OCT 15-30)
Yard Mastery Flagship
RGS + MicroGreene

Attached are pics from my yard last year. Was looking good going into summer, but the lack of rain and heat torched my yard. My side yard was yellow 2nd pic (not sure if it was a fungus) in late spring and when the heat come it was a goner. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to get top soil and replant my whole side yard this spring (very small section). Any feedback on my plan would be helpful. Thanks in advance everyone!


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

you can substitute all of those Yard Mastery products for whatever is cheaper at your local store

The lawn doesn't know what you are using so just use the best value fertilizer.

A combination of scotts, menards, or whatever is on sale plus a 46-0-0 Urea is the cheapest route to take.

My total cost for 5000 sq ft was around $100 last year and that's including fungicide applications.


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

You can get almost a life-time supply of prodamine for the cost of the yard mastery granular stuff

https://www.amazon.com/Prodiamine-Generic-Barricade-5lbs-ali8056/dp/B004GTQBEK

yes that is FIVE pounds of it for $70

A decent sprayer can be bought at home depot or lowe's for less than $20


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## jdaltman (May 23, 2020)

Thanks for the feedback guys. I was going off the lawn book, but I could tell there was a sales aspect to using the Yard Mastery products. Would Urea be good to use with Milogarnite (or similar) for Round 1 and Round 2 then take Urea out from June-Aug when I'm not trying to push as much growth?

I have about 7500 sq ft to treat so if I did liquid prodiamine, I may just consider investing in a backpack sprayer. Any recommendations for an entry level sprayer that won't break the bank?


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

^+1 I love Allyn - I bought his e-book in 2018 and he is the reason I have this passion. But he is also a terrific sales person and business owner. I'm not saying don't support him. I'm only agreeing with @john5246; you can get everything you need for much cheaper.

Thankfully I can't get any of his stuff shipped to Canada, because I was obsessed with it a few years ago. I ended up saving a lot of $$$ by finding other options.

Urea is mostly used for the Fall N blitz - located in the Cool Season Guide on this forum. By the way, I think the guide on TLF is as good as anything out there. Best part is it's FREE!

I would use Milo for your Spring apps and Urea in the Fall.


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## jeffjunstrom (Aug 12, 2019)

I'll second a lot of this, as well. I used all the Yard Mastery products my first year and didn't really notice much of an effect. Granted I didn't have a control plot, but for the money I spent and the results I saw, I've pivoted away.

Not sure where you are in/near Pittsburgh, but check out EH Griffith over in Swissvale. Once I found them, I changed my entire granular approach because they have so many options and I don't have to pay for shipping. I also used Site One in the Crafton/Moon area, and it was overpriced.

As for what I've pivoted to, whatever is on sale dictates my approach first. Thus, this year I'm using the LESCO prodiamine since it was on sale at Lowes. Then I'll use some well-rounded fert from EH Griffith throughout the year, and finish with Urea (also from EHG). But all of that will also be dictated by my soil test, which I just sent to Waypoint this past weekend.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

I just read your OP again: you said that a lack of rain and the heat torched your lawn. Do you have irrigation (above or below ground)? If you only let the rain irrigate your lawn, it doesn't matter what your plan is. It's going to do look the same in the Fall.

I don't see any signs of fungus. Instead it looks like maybe the height of cut changed drastically and/or a lack of nitrogen and water.

Whatever you did last Spring was working fine. Getting the finest in lawn care products won't do a thing without adhering to the basic principles: feed it regularly, water it deeply and infrequently and cut it often. Doing these three things alone, consistently all year will yield really good results.


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## frekwentflier (Oct 27, 2020)

Last year's version of this ebook focused on Milorganite and CarbonX granule ferts. I can't believe that other than 1 minor mention, he removed Milo from this year's version. CX shutdown, so he replaced it with Yard Mastery products. I get that he wants to sell stuff, but that's a huge change. I'll be following last year's ebook (and of course this forum) since I stocked up on an entire season of Milo last Fall.


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## jdaltman (May 23, 2020)

Harts said:


> I just read your OP again: you said that a lack of rain and the heat torched your lawn. Do you have irrigation (above or below ground)? If you only let the rain irrigate your lawn, it doesn't matter what your plan is. It's going to do look the same in the Fall.
> 
> I don't see any signs of fungus. Instead it looks like maybe the height of cut changed drastically and/or a lack of nitrogen and water.
> 
> Whatever you did last Spring was working fine. Getting the finest in lawn care products won't do a thing without adhering to the basic principles: feed it regularly, water it deeply and infrequently and cut it often. Doing these three things alone, consistently all year will yield really good results.


I did not have irrigation, but most of my yard balanced back in the fall with the exception of the side part of the yard - something was going on way before the weather turned hot and dry. Either way, I'm going to come up with an above ground irrigation this summer - not willing to bite the bullet for an in ground system yet. I did notice when I cut higher it looked better, but my neighbor cut significantly lower and you could see the division point between our lawns...my side would look yellow and dead when it was cut any lower than 3", but my neighbor's wouldn't.


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## jdaltman (May 23, 2020)

jeffjunstrom said:


> I'll second a lot of this, as well. I used all the Yard Mastery products my first year and didn't really notice much of an effect. Granted I didn't have a control plot, but for the money I spent and the results I saw, I've pivoted away.
> 
> Not sure where you are in/near Pittsburgh, but check out EH Griffith over in Swissvale. Once I found them, I changed my entire granular approach because they have so many options and I don't have to pay for shipping. I also used Site One in the Crafton/Moon area, and it was overpriced.
> 
> As for what I've pivoted to, whatever is on sale dictates my approach first. Thus, this year I'm using the LESCO prodiamine since it was on sale at Lowes. Then I'll use some well-rounded fert from EH Griffith throughout the year, and finish with Urea (also from EHG). But all of that will also be dictated by my soil test, which I just sent to Waypoint this past weekend.


Thanks for the feedback! I live in the Cranberry area so Swissvale isn't overly far away. I'll probably take a drive out there. After doing some more research, I'm probably going to buy the Lesco Stonewall that you mentioned above from Lowe's I'll check out the fertilizers at EH Griffith. Are you using any other spray on bi-stims or kelp/humic in addition to the fertilizers?


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

Harts said:


> ^+1 I love Allyn - I bought his e-book in 2018 and he is the reason I have this passion. But he is also a terrific sales person and business owner. I'm not saying don't support him. I'm only agreeing with @john5246; you can get everything you need for much cheaper.
> 
> Thankfully I can't get any of his stuff shipped to Canada, because I was obsessed with it a few years ago. I ended up saving a lot of $$$ by finding other options.
> 
> ...


I also watched him, and it helped re-ignite my passion for lawncare which I had since I was a teen. Even did 2 reno's because of him and this forum.

That being said. If anyone wants to support him by purchasing his products by all means go for it.

The yard Mastery fert is around $55 for 15k sq ft SHIPPED! Meaning that for a 5,000 sq ft lawn you are paying less than $20. So there doesn't seem to be price gouging or any ubsurd mark-up like with another certain volcanic ash fert I see mentioned sometimes.

You can find fertilizer cheaper from your local store if you shop when it's on sale and stock up. Scotts with halts will be cleared out for $12 at walmart by June. Shopping deals is always the best value.

Urea is still cheaper than that. With 46-0-0 and a 50lb bag for around $50 (from site one) it lasts a very long time. I use that along with scotts, Lesco, or whatever is on sale (milorganite) to give it some slow release. Ironite when it's on sale is also the cheapest way to give it a quick green up when needed.


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

jdaltman said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys. I was going off the lawn book, but I could tell there was a sales aspect to using the Yard Mastery products. Would Urea be good to use with Milogarnite (or similar) for Round 1 and Round 2 then take Urea out from June-Aug when I'm not trying to push as much growth?
> 
> I have about 7500 sq ft to treat so if I did liquid prodiamine, I may just consider investing in a backpack sprayer.  Any recommendations for an entry level sprayer that won't break the bank?


There's nothing wrong with using milorganite and I use it from time to time. In my opinion if you are mulching the clippings you don't really need milorganite for organic material.

My cheaper alternative to milorganite is using scotts fertilizer along with ironite and iron spray applications for a little more green up kick when I need it!

For the cost of 2 bags of Milo I can get scotts fert with MUCH more nitrogen. I too fell victim to the hype but came back to reality. Lawn care is supposed to be fun, easy, and not break the bank.

When I said that I managed everything for right around $100 including fungicide applications I wasn't joking. It really does come down to $1 per application or less on some of these products. That $100 included:

1. Fall nitrogen blitz
2. All the nitrogen requirements my KBG needed 
3. Fungicide
4. Insecticide (Bifen)

It takes a lot of time for LCN to put together guides and make videos. The least I can do is buy 1 bag of the yard mastery stuff from him this year to show some support. Or better yet the micro's since I haven't found a cheap alternative.

Instead of spraying magic potions on the lawn spend that time sharpening your blade and mowing 1 extra time.


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

jeffjunstrom said:


> I'll second a lot of this, as well. I used all the Yard Mastery products my first year and didn't really notice much of an effect. Granted I didn't have a control plot, but for the money I spent and the results I saw, I've pivoted away.
> 
> Not sure where you are in/near Pittsburgh, but check out EH Griffith over in Swissvale. Once I found them, I changed my entire granular approach because they have so many options and I don't have to pay for shipping. I also used Site One in the Crafton/Moon area, and it was overpriced.
> 
> As for what I've pivoted to, whatever is on sale dictates my approach first. Thus, this year I'm using the LESCO prodiamine since it was on sale at Lowes. Then I'll use some well-rounded fert from EH Griffith throughout the year, and finish with Urea (also from EHG). But all of that will also be dictated by my soil test, which I just sent to Waypoint this past weekend.


Even with the reno's I did and chose high performing KBG I wasn't all that happy. Then I realized the key is adding shots of urea and ironite (granular) and iron spray to get the level of green you want. That is what results in a stunning lawn! The rest is mostly gimmicks.

So I put down slow release already for the spring. In april I will do a prodiamine app. Then I will add 1lb of urea along with some ironite to green it up (last week april or may). I will wait a week then spray some iron to give it a nice deep green. That should last till June. July is more about watering or letting it go dormant if you want. Late August I start the Fall nitrogen Blitz. The time goes by quite fast. :thumbup:


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Let's say your grass is used to being cut at 3.5" and then one day you decide to take it down to 2.5". The grass is going to appear yellow for a while because it is in shock and that new part of the grass wasn't getting as much sun before. If you keep cutting at 2.5", eventually it's going to green back up - assuming normal irrigation, of course.

Perhaps your neighbour kept is at the same HOC all year. That would be a reasonable explanation as to why his was darker. His grass is used to that HOC.


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## Guarddawg30 (Aug 8, 2020)

jdaltman said:


> Thanks for the feedback! I live in the Cranberry area so Swissvale isn't overly far away. I'll probably take a drive out there. After doing some more research, I'm probably going to buy the Lesco Stonewall that you mentioned above from Lowe's I'll check out the fertilizers at EH Griffith. Are you using any other spray on bi-stims or kelp/humic in addition to the fertilizers?


I am a little south of you in the Greensburg area..I did a quick search and another place you can look for your fertilizer is Agway..I saw that there is one in Mars..I am not sure about that one, but the one we have in Greensburg has a really good selection of product and if they don't have something you need they will order it for you..The one by me deals with a lot of The Anderson's products..I got a 50lb of urea (46-0-0) there for my nitrogen blitz for $12.

I also think the lack of rain last year was the worst that I can think of in a long time...Check out Ryan Knorr's diy above ground irrigation video if you haven't...I did something similar when I overseeded in the fall and it worked.


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## ColeLawn (Nov 11, 2020)

john5246 said:


> You can get almost a life-time supply of prodamine for the cost of the yard mastery granular stuff
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Prodiamine-Generic-Barricade-5lbs-ali8056/dp/B004GTQBEK
> 
> ...


Certainly not the cheapest way to go about it, but I grabbed the 5oz bottle from Yard Mastery for $20. Great option for those with smaller yards or those in NY that can't buy the 5lb jug.

Also, taking advantage of exchanges on the TLF Marketplace has been a great source too. Being able to buy product in 1 or 2oz quantities at cost is major for us small yard folks. Especially for products that you might only need to use a couple of times.

And if anyone is interested in Trimec Classic I have a gallon that is probably enough to last me two lifetimes and I have no problem helping someone out if they are in need... :lol: (kidding, this is not a sales ad).

Other than this I try to stay away from the YouTuber stores. I have been into car detailing for years now (DIY-enthusiast level) and I can already see the rabbit hole developing in the lawn care community, and I'm only a few months in... 90% of the products you need to detail a car can be purchased at AutoZone/big box for a fraction of what you will pay for similar products on line, but people think they need the Adams, Sonax, etc. products because that's what the influencers use.


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## jeffjunstrom (Aug 12, 2019)

Guarddawg30 said:


> jdaltman said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the feedback! I live in the Cranberry area so Swissvale isn't overly far away. I'll probably take a drive out there. After doing some more research, I'm probably going to buy the Lesco Stonewall that you mentioned above from Lowe's I'll check out the fertilizers at EH Griffith. Are you using any other spray on bi-stims or kelp/humic in addition to the fertilizers?
> ...


I'm going to have to check out that Agway! EH Griffith has urea for $33, and I thought that was a good deal.

And I agree on the rain, last year was really light and my yard got really stressed during the summer months even with my irrigation. I just couldn't water it enough. Hoping this year is better.


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

ColeLawn said:


> john5246 said:
> 
> 
> > You can get almost a life-time supply of prodamine for the cost of the yard mastery granular stuff
> ...


yes I actually bought all my chemicals off here so it was an even cheaper upfront cost (except Bifen, and imidocloprid for grubs which I bought on amazon or domyown)


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

I have bought products from YouTube personalities who have provided me hours of entertainment. I enjoy their content and want them to continue to provide it. To ensure that, I want them to make a few bucks. I'm being selfish really.


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## jdaltman (May 23, 2020)

Lawn Noob said:


> I have bought products from YouTube personalities who have provided me hours of entertainment. I enjoy their content and want them to continue to provide it. To ensure that, I want them to make a few bucks. I'm being selfish really.


What products have you used and any recommendations? I see the comments about how much the Flagship fert costs, but when I look at using Milogarnite the cost would be around $48-50 for my size lawn for one application. The only thing I see as potentially being overpriced is the Bio-Stims, but for the convenience I may give them a shot this year. Like I said, I'm looking for an easy program to follow my first year in and will modify it subsequent years. Allyn has made a pretty good program it seems for newbies to follow. I probably would buy granular prodiamine from Lowe's as it looks the same as Yard Mastery stuff, but $20 cheaper.

What's everyone's thought on GCI Protene? I saw it's supposed to last 3 months but haven't been able to find much more info on it.

Lot of info to take in - just trying to put something together that is easy to follow and will give me results.


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## Lawn Noob (Jul 26, 2020)

jdaltman said:


> Lawn Noob said:
> 
> 
> > I have bought products from YouTube personalities who have provided me hours of entertainment. I enjoy their content and want them to continue to provide it. To ensure that, I want them to make a few bucks. I'm being selfish really.
> ...


I have purchased fescue seed from GCI along with Carbon X fertilizer. I've bought prodiamine and other misc stuff from Yard Mastery.

I'm new myself so I stick to the basics. I can't wrap my head around how a liquid aerator could work for example, so I don't buy that sort of thing from anyone.

I like Ryan Knorr too, but none of his products appeal to me at the moment. Looks like he may be partnering with Matt Martin. That may change my mind. I like Matt and his old Carbon X stuff.


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

Lawn Noob said:


> I have bought products from YouTube personalities who have provided me hours of entertainment. I enjoy their content and want them to continue to provide it. To ensure that, I want them to make a few bucks. I'm being selfish really.


Hi Alan! :lol:


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## tam (Jun 27, 2020)

I have bought a couple of things through LCN as a way to hit the tip jar (I did like Carbon Earth 8-1-8 before its demise). I've largely moved on from watching much of his content because I prefer articles and vids that get to the point more quickly. I don't care about mowing POVs, for example.

The e-book is intended for newbies and he's drawing from his TruGreen background: of course I'd expect it to read like a recipe book. He doesn't hide the fact that you can follow his recommendations using other products.

I think he does overpromise on how quickly one can expect to be dominating the neighbors. The first year I followed his advice, I did not experience domination. But the next year, I had a contractor who was burying a downspout for us tell me it was hurting him to dig up my lawn because that side of the house "looks like a sod farm" and he asked me a bunch of questions about it (his description was generous; my place would not have merited a LOTM nomination at TLF, but it was miles removed from the dallisgrass forest I started with).

If you have access to a lot of farm supply stores or if you are experienced with catching things on clearance, then the Yard Mastery products will look expensive to you. If your local choices are more limited and you're ordering things online anyway or if you just really feel like you've gotta have biosolids, then YM pricing may look more reasonable.


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## LeftField11 (May 24, 2020)

jdaltman said:


> I did not have irrigation, but most of my yard balanced back in the fall with the exception of the side part of the yard - something was going on way before the weather turned hot and dry. Either way, I'm going to come up with an above ground irrigation this summer - not willing to bite the bullet for an in ground system yet. I did notice when I cut higher it looked better, but my neighbor cut significantly lower and you could see the division point between our lawns...my side would look yellow and dead when it was cut any lower than 3", but my neighbor's wouldn't.


I'm over here in Central PA, but I have had a similar issue ever since I reno'd in 2016. I kept thinking it was drought stress (no irrigation) and/or fungus but it would start in early summer (June) before the hard heat and drought even hit. Finally last year I sprayed an insecticide (bifenthrin) and the lawn started to recover in two weeks. I think it was either chinch bugs or some kind of bluegrass weevil. In any case, I'll be proactive with the insecticide this year and see what happens.


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## jdaltman (May 23, 2020)

LeftField11 said:


> jdaltman said:
> 
> 
> > I did not have irrigation, but most of my yard balanced back in the fall with the exception of the side part of the yard - something was going on way before the weather turned hot and dry. Either way, I'm going to come up with an above ground irrigation this summer - not willing to bite the bullet for an in ground system yet. I did notice when I cut higher it looked better, but my neighbor cut significantly lower and you could see the division point between our lawns...my side would look yellow and dead when it was cut any lower than 3", but my neighbor's wouldn't.
> ...


Thanks for the feedback - I may have to try to that this year. What lawn regiment are you using as far as fertilizers, preM, and biostims if any with living in Central PA? Any tips would be appreciated! I'm planning on doing 5 or 6 apps this year...throwing preM (granular promidanine) next week then following with fertizlier and bio stims apps throughout the summer and fall.


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## jeffjunstrom (Aug 12, 2019)

@LeftField11 I got absolutely lit up with chinch bugs (and crane flies) over the past two years. Going a little more aggressive on bifen this year. The label isn't very clear, but a Q&A at DoMyOwn says apply every 4-8 weeks; 4 weeks it is.

@jdaltman Got my soil results back on Tuesday, so I was able to make my final adjustments for the year. Some rough plans include:

Fert: 4-5# N/K over the entire year, with roughly 1/3 in the spring, and 2/3 in the fall. I'm using a fert from EH Griffith (Lebanon Proscape 25-0-5) in the spring because I don't need any P and need just a little K. Over the summer, if I'm feeling frisky, I may throw down something minor like milorganite just to get some nutrients down and some minimal N. Otherwise, minimal fert use in the summer. In the fall, I'll use urea (also from EHG). My plan is about 1.5# in the spring and 3.5# in the fall, adjusted accordingly based on what the grass is telling me.

Pre-em: Lesco Stonewall from Lowes, simply because it was on sale. Otherwise, EHG carries a granular prodiamine that I used last year. I have the Lesco on deck and ready to go once Greencast tells me its time. I got nervous last week when temps went up, but held strong.

Biostims: Nothing really, other than what's contained in the ferts I'm throwing down. I may try to use some iron this year for green pops, so I'm not sure what else is in the granular or liquid apps yet. I did the full Bio-Stim pack last year and didn't really see much return.

One thing that really helped me at the beginning was someone on here posted an Excel chart for all of these different categories. I'm still using a version of that, adjusted to my personal plan. I'd be happy to send my 2021 version if you want, it's already gone through twenty minor revisions as I try to plan out the year. But you know what they say about a plan...


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## LeftField11 (May 24, 2020)

jdaltman said:


> Thanks for the feedback - I may have to try to that this year. What lawn regiment are you using as far as fertilizers, preM, and biostims if any with living in Central PA? Any tips would be appreciated! I'm planning on doing 5 or 6 apps this year...throwing preM (granular promidanine) next week then following with fertizlier and bio stims apps throughout the summer and fall.


I'm not doing anything too crazy. PreM (Prodiamine WDG) when the forsythia blooms (usually mid-April) and again in July. EndRun (trimec), Triclopyr, and Tenacity for postM as needed. 
Milorganite pretty early in the spring. I do an aggressive N program in the fall so I usually don't need a ton of N in spring. Milo a couple more times in May and June. 
I may put down alfalfa pellets this spring to try to encourage the KBG to fill in the bug damaged areas. I can already see small KBG plants popping up in the bare areas so I'm cautiously optimistic that I'll see decent recovery. 
I have a gallon of T-Nex (PGR) sitting in my garage that I bought last year but didn't use. Really hope to start using it this year. 
After Labor Day I start with N every week till the first frost. I use urea from a local farm fertilizer company.


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## Hamilton (Mar 12, 2021)

I'm also just starting out. I'm also going to do the basic plan from LCN. Looking forward to seeing your progress through the season.


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## jaykrooze (Mar 30, 2020)

jeffjunstrom said:


> One thing that really helped me at the beginning was someone on here posted an Excel chart for all of these different categories. I'm still using a version of that, adjusted to my personal plan. I'd be happy to send my 2021 version if you want, it's already gone through twenty minor revisions as I try to plan out the year. But you know what they say about a plan...


I would be Interested in comparing charts! It is my first year drawing one up, I have bastardized one I found online, haha.

I am trying to make a decision on the fert plan as well moving forward. Going between the every other week spoon feeding or one dump every 5 weeks. I too have settled on the 1.5# spring 3.5# fall. Still waiting on results from test but assuming this is the way I will be headed. Keep us posted how you make out!


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## Copat (Mar 20, 2021)

@john5246 what iron spray do you recommend?


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

Copat said:


> @john5246 what iron spray do you recommend?


you can get any sort of iron spray online or the cheapest option might be Ferrous Sulfate bought off ebay like I did. If I had to buy it on amazon I would get the Liquid Iron by Southern Ag

I think the cheapest option is actually to use ironite (granular) that you can pick up at any big box store. Apply at the recommended rate then spray ever 2 weeks or so to either maintain the green or increase it according to what you prefer.


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