# Feedback on Proposal?



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

I got couple proposal for irrigation...$5500 for 6k sqft of yard plus all my flower beds, can anyone tell if that is a good deal? They will do just the lawn for $3500 or the lawn plus my largest flower bed for $4100. I got another one for the same job for $6500 but I had to find and pay a plumber to install the back flow line.


```
9                       1 Inch Control Valves
1000 FT          	1 Inch PVC Irrigation Pipe
250 FT			18/13 Conductor Irrigation Control Wire
105 FT			Irrigation Flex Pipe
3			Irrigation Valve Boxes
1			12 Zone Hunter PRO-C Automatic Controller
14			Hunter PGP Ultra Rotor Heads [Turf Areas]
0			MP Rotator Turf Heads
20			Hunter Pro Spray Heads     
1			Back Flow Preventer
```


----------



## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

Ther rule of thumb in my area is about $500 to $600 per zone....

9 valves x $600 = $5400

I don't know what your local labor prices are like, but for my region that estimate is about average.

However...that assumes they do the job right. Unfotunately, there's no "city inspectors" for irrigation installers, at least not in my region. The result is too many bozos calling themselves irrigation installers. Learn all you can about good irrigation so you can separate the good guys from the bad. I'd pay more for a genuine "pro".

For even coverage, the rotor heads must shoot onto all the neighboring heads. This is called "head to head" coverage. Too often, fly-by-night irrigation installers use too few heads. The heads are spaced so that the streams meet somewhere in the middle and you end up with dry spots or having to compensate by over-watering. They either don't know what they're doing, or they're just padding their profits.

So ask them about the head spacing and how many zones they plan to use for those lawn rotors. Get it in writing that all lawn heads will be spaced to hit the neighboring heads. Demand a guaranteed irrigation audit after the install with even coverage on the lawn. Walk away if they never head of an irrigation audit or try to tell you head-to-head coverage isn't needed.


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@hsvtoolfool

Thanks man, all good points. The company has great reviews and is local so from what I can tell they appear to know what they are doing. Their quote was also $1000 less than a competitors quote.


----------



## dpainter68 (Apr 26, 2017)

1028mountain said:


> I got couple proposal for irrigation...$5500 for 6k sqft of yard plus all my flower beds, can anyone tell if that is a good deal? They will do just the lawn for $3500 or the lawn plus my largest flower bed for $4100. I got another one for the same job for $6500 but I had to find and pay a plumber to install the back flow line.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


Any idea what your water pressure and available flow is? 9 zones for 6k sqft seems like a lot to me. Have a lot of flower beds by any chance?


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Lots of pressure at the bibs like 40-60PSi depending on which one I test from. Not sure how to test available flow? I have a fair amount of flower beds...green is grass and blue are flower beds. The cross hatched areas are gravel driveways.

They came back and said they would do everything for $5250 (9 zones). I asked them to confirm head to head as well as an audit but waiting to hear back.


----------



## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

You won't need to worry about these details since your installer hopefully knows their stuff. That said...

Ignore the hose bibs...too many restrictions and twisty turns. Flow and pressure are measured from the main supply pipe between the meter and your house. That's where your irrigation system gets water. Many city folks install a dedicated water meter just for the irrigation to avoid sewage treatment charges. I have a septic tank, so I didn't need a separate meter.

If you're interested, read the Jess Stryker irrigation tutorials for details...

https://www.irrigationtutorials.com/


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

I'm on a well of that matters?


----------



## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

For the MP Rotators, be sure to install a 100 mesh filter in the main line. They are more sensitive to sand and dirt than big rotor nozzles. Otherwise, I have no experience with well pumps flow and pressures. Anyone else?


----------



## Bermuda_Triangle (Sep 20, 2019)

I found this site to be very informative: https://www.irrigationtutorials.com/


----------



## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

Late to the party but definitely get the Hunter Hydrawise Controller. I didn't when I had my system installed last year and regretted it. Its worth its weight in gold with conserving water.


----------



## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

RDZed said:


> Late to the party but definitely get the Hunter Hydrawise Controller.


I'm glad the Hydrawise is a viable option, but Rachio and Rainmachine are also highly regarded "smart" controllers. I've chosen the Rainmachine and may try to get integrate it with a Personal Weather Station this Winter as a fun electronics project. Others here have already done this with the Rachio.

Personally, I'll never use or recommend another Hunter controller due to my poor experiences with their old "Pro-C" line. I love Hunter valves and sprinkler products, but they should be ashamed of those awful, overpriced controllers they sold for a decade.


----------



## avionics12 (Jul 2, 2018)

I'd recommend Pro-C line all day long. Got great service from it, however...

I'm about to install my third location RainMachine connected to my Davis Weather Station. Fun off season project. I didn't go Hydrawise because of ancillary fees. They do have a great User Interface though.

Forgot to say...RainMachine is coming into HomeKit for those of us with that inclination.


----------



## RDZed (Jul 13, 2018)

hsvtoolfool said:


> RDZed said:
> 
> 
> > Late to the party but definitely get the Hunter Hydrawise Controller.
> ...


Dude, he's already been quoted a Hunter 12 Zone Pro-C Auto (aka static)controller. I'm urging him to bump up to a smart controller. That's all.

Sorry you've had a bad time with Hunter. I've had either Rainbird or Hunter for over 40 years and never had a problem with either.


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@RDZed

Thanks mang. They came back and clarified their proposal will do every bit of yard for $4100 or the entire yard and every bed for $6800. 6 vs 12 zones. Obviously a better deal to do all of it but I already have sprinkles in the garden that I installed hanging off battery powered timers that work just fine. If I just did the yard at 6 zones that is $685 per zone which is high as shit IMHO when they can do 12 at $566 per. $566 x 6 would be $3300 for just the yard.

This isn't an accurate representation but one thing that seemed overkill was the 4 heads in the small lawn to the right of the path (lower right). But this gives you an idea of what they were originally going to do (no irrigation in the small dotted line planters). Tried to tell me they could use the lawn sprinklers to water those areas but I don't want that. All the dotted ares are beds and the two long rectangle areas are beds as well. This map doesn't show the yard on the right side or back right corner.


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Got another proposal just for the lawn which seems like a good deal with wifi controller and the rain sensor.


```
13 Hunter I-20 ADJU Gear Driven Rotor Heads
8 Hunter Pro-04 Pop Up Spray Heads
5 Hunter PGV-100G-S Control Valves
1 Mini Clik Rain Sensor
1 Hunter Pro-HC WiFi Irrigation Controller
1 Wilkins Backflow Prevention Device (Provided Only)
* Plumbing work to be done by others
IRRIGATION PRICE: $3,415.00
```
My neighbor (master plumber) said he would install the 3/4" with back-flow preventer for $100. Should that line be copper or CPVC? Irrigation guy said they prefer copper but plumber said that will freeze and asked if they could use CPVC. Anyone know?


----------



## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

In my town, it's not copper at the meter.

Hydrawise is not that 'smart' imo but better than 'offline'. Chuck the rain sensor .....how often does rain occur when watering lawn? Smart controller should negate most chances.


----------



## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

The forum lacks a "like post" button, so....what Jayhawk said.


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

What's a better smart controller that has an app?


----------



## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

1028mountain said:


> I got couple proposal for irrigation...$5500 for 6k sqft of yard plus all my flower beds, can anyone tell if that is a good deal? They will do just the lawn for $3500 or the lawn plus my largest flower bed for $4100. I got another one for the same job for $6500 but I had to find and pay a plumber to install the back flow line.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


Just as an FYI for what the materials cost on a project like this... I created a quick quote @ SiteOne with your material list and i'm at $565, plus tax (minus the backflow preventer + irrigation controller). If you were to add those in, materials itself (including the incidentals: fittings, glue, etc) you come out to approx $1000-1500 tops. The rest is labor. :shock: Now there's value in that labor and I don't mean to diminish that by any means, but don't let anyone make you feel like they're doing you any favors then. Demand what you pay for because if you won't they'll naturally find the easy way.

Now on to some more thoughts/details:
- determine your water flow & pressure BEFORE the pressure reducing valve, if at all possible. No use negotiating hard numbers if it all gets scrambled cause the water supply isn't as anticipated (usually meaning more/smaller zones to achieve the same coverage).
- shrubbery and plantings need half the water supply of turf, and if established may only need watering in the deepest droughts. The value proposition doesn't seem to be there ($2000 to supply underground irrigation to shrubs you may/may not need to water). It may depend on what kind of plantings you have. We have a heavily landscaped yard and I only irrigated the peonies and hydrangeas (plus the areas where my wife plants her annuals) and the rest I have the option to adjust my lawn heads to cover the established plants as needed. Just a thought.
- since it's only a few more cents per head, consider getting heads with check valves already installed - esp if you have a sloped yard. That eliminates water from continuing to flow out of the zone after a cycle ends (creates erosion plus runoff, etc) and just as importantly reduces the impact of water forcefully flowing back into the zone at the next cycle and shortening the life of the system.
- lastly, you mention your concern for having 4 heads in that small area - be mindful that more heads to create better/more efficient coverage is better that fewer heads that are inefficiently placed. Personally that's a sign of good design, imo, as it would be easier to 'get away' with 2 heads from an install perspective. More heads does not mean more water or more waste, etc. as 4 heads at 0.5 gal/hr spray the same water as 2 heads at 1 gal/hr.


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@corneliani

Yeah I understand I am paying mostly for labor but I got no interest in doing this myself. Also I have irrigation in my flower beds already and they are pretty heavily landscaped as well with all types of plants (hydrangea's included). I also read online that per zone cost is roughly $300-400 but I am paying way more than that no matter who I ask for a quote.


----------



## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

Good point on check valves. I wish I had done (known about) it, cost is negligible.....but probably requires them to go get, not 'on the truck'.

Concur on the value prop of zones for shrubs, unless they are flowers


----------



## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

1028mountain said:


> What's a better smart controller that has an app?


My experience with hunter and rachio- rachio easily.


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Bumping this as I am having irrigation installed next Tuesday with the following:


```
11 Hunter l-20 ADJU gear driven rotor heads
11 Hunter Pro-06 Pop Up spray heads
7 Hunter PGV-100G-S control valves
1 mini Clik Rain Sensor
1 Hunter Pro-HC Wifi Controller
```
Check valves included as well and will have them remove the rain sensor.

Cost is $3700 and I paid $250 for a PVB installed so just under $4k all-in, That includes tying into my existing flower bed irrigation (2/7 zones).


----------



## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

I have a Rachio 3 but actually just added a rain sensor to it. Not common, but sometimes it rains when not predicted. Was more of an issue when I had a zone going in the afternoon (due to some newly moved sod pieces).


----------



## RVAGuy (Jul 27, 2020)

jayhawk said:


> Chuck the rain sensor


Note some counties, mine included, require rain sensors to be installed. If you sell the house, they'll nail you for it and make you install one. At least add the wiring for one, so it'll be easy to add later (if you go wired).


----------



## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

acampinoob said:


> jayhawk said:
> 
> 
> > Chuck the rain sensor
> ...


Oh wow, perhaps conduit at least ....a)protects wires b) flexibility for change


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Its not required here locally but its only $50 so I can still get it installed. I was just going with @jayhawk recommendation. Where do they typically get installed?


----------



## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

@1028mountain sensors I think dangle off a gutter or siding.


----------



## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

P.s. I'd use PRS30 ( assumes fan tips) pop up for the fan sprays .....or PRS30-CV


----------



## Ge0rdi3brit (Aug 30, 2018)

I'd go PRS40-CV and consider the mp rotators, rather than fan tips. They'll match closely with the rates of your I-20s so you can run zones for similar times. 
Also, make sure they put the proper nozzles in the I-20s. Too often they just install them with what comes in the rotors, but they need to be matched for precipitation rates. 2.0 gpm for 90 degree arcs, 4.0 for 180 degree arcs, 8.0 for 360 degree arcs, for example. Or 1, 2, 4. Whatever works for the flow rate per zone you have.


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Today is the day. They are finishing up the lines + controller install now. They used a ditch witch vibrator to install the most of the longer lines and hand dug the rest. Really didn't make that much of a mess of my yard either. I went with all Hunter as they recommended and figure if I don't like the Hunter Pro HC I can switch it out for the Rachio 3 down the road.


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Alright so its all said and done but I am noticing some of the heads spray water directly on the ground in front of them and the guys are saying its because of the height of the head. Any higher and it sprays into a driveway or flowerbed. This can't be normal and I assume they would need to change the heads out to something that can spray a shorter distance without making puddles in front of them?


----------



## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> Alright so its all said and done but I am noticing some of the heads spray water directly on the ground in front of them and the guys are saying its because of the height of the head. Any higher and it sprays into a driveway or flowerbed. This can't be normal and I assume they would need to change the heads out to something that can spray a shorter distance without making puddles in front of them?


Can you post a pic of what you are referring to?


----------



## Ge0rdi3brit (Aug 30, 2018)

Have you paid them 100% for the work?


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

TSGarp007 said:


> 1028mountain said:
> 
> 
> > Alright so its all said and done but I am noticing some of the heads spray water directly on the ground in front of them and the guys are saying its because of the height of the head. Any higher and it sprays into a driveway or flowerbed. This can't be normal and I assume they would need to change the heads out to something that can spray a shorter distance without making puddles in front of them?
> ...


Sure. This is after 30 seconds of running them.


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Ge0rdi3brit said:


> Have you paid them 100% for the work?


No not yet. But they have been super receptive and accommodating. Dude is coming by tomorrow to check into it.


----------



## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

If you tighten down the adjustment screw at a certain point it causes a lot of water to be knocked down to the ground. What radius are you trying to cover in those spots?


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

TSGarp007 said:


> If you tighten down the adjustment screw at a certain point it causes a lot of water to be knocked down to the ground. What radius are you trying to cover in those spots?


Which is what they said as well. I don't know the exact numbers, some 90 and a couple 180. Guy came by and said they 1.5 gpm heads in them and are going to replace them with 1 or .5 gpm on Monday which should fix it.

But if you look at the drawing below its the are to the left and right of the path in the bottom right corner. On the right side there are only 2 heads across from each other (17.5 x 13'). But pretty much all in that lower right hand corner (6 or so) are knocking water into the ground right in front of them. I guess because that area is too narrow for whatever heads/nozzles they put in them?


----------



## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

Are those I-20's over there (13x17.5 rectangle)? I have I-20s, and that is way to small an area for them. I even have some short radius nozzles, they are not very good, and should really not be reduced down to 13'. For that area on the right, I would probably do a rectangular pattern of Rainbird R-VAN rotary nozzles or Hunter MP Rotator rotary nozzles. Since it isn't a square, and assuming you don't want overspray, I'd do six heads, 3 on the left side, and 3 on the right side. But if that is only part of a zone you would need to consider the precipitation rate to make sure it's close to the rest of the zone.

Just my personal thoughts, I'm not exactly an expert.


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

They are hunter something or other but what I don't know. That proposal was from another company and the one I went with just out 2 nozzles.

Also I have a similar layout in the back and they put 6 spray heads across from each other just like you are suggesting. If the nozzles don't solve the problem then I'll have them change out the heads.


----------



## Utk03analyst (Jun 8, 2019)

I had a 15x17 square in the front yard and I initially used pgp's more residential cousin of the i20 and by your pictures they are at least a pgp or i20 that's to small of an area for them. The smaller Pgj should handle that area just fine. I believe they i20 and pgj both have 3/4 inlets but the diameter of the pgj is smaller so a little fill dirt would be needed, but you would get a better spray pattern.

I also don't like how when you wrench the adjustment nozzle down the spray pattern fans out a lot making the water distribution pattern look really uneven. I swapped out my pgp's for pgj's in that area. I'm not sure if the pgj has a check valve option though.


----------



## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

Another issue is the over spray, or alternatively, lack of even head to head coverage. It sounds like the sprinklers were tightened down to avoid over spray. That means it probably isn't getting head to head coverage. If you went with 3 sprays on each side then you could get head to head coverage with minimal over spray.


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Yeah they are I-20s and they replaced the nozzles today to no avail.

So now they are going to replace 3 rotors on that zone (2 in that square and 1 on the other side of the path) with spray heads and assure me they will provide adequate coverage. So now there will be 4 rotors + 3 spray heads on a single zone which is bad from what I have read. I assume I would be better served to tell them to put additional heads in that area on their own zone? And that is because the rotors and heads put out different volumes of water?

Are there any spray heads that put out the same amount of water as the I20s?


----------



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Well they came back and replaced every I-20 rotor on that zone with MP rotators. Will see how it goes.


----------



## TSGarp007 (May 22, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> Yeah they are I-20s and they replaced the nozzles today to no avail.
> 
> So now they are going to replace 3 rotors on that zone (2 in that square and 1 on the other side of the path) with spray heads and assure me they will provide adequate coverage. So now there will be 4 rotors + 3 spray heads on a single zone which is bad from what I have read. I assume I would be better served to tell them to put additional heads in that area on their own zone? And that is because the rotors and heads put out different volumes of water?
> 
> Are there any spray heads that put out the same amount of water as the I20s?


That actually depends on what nozzles the I-20s are using, how many degrees they are watering, and what pattern each type of sprinkler is laid out in. You can compare the I-20 nozzles and the MP Rotator nozzles. When looking at those charts you'll notice a square or a triangle column.  To compare how much water each is putting into your yard compare those columns. It looks like a 2.5 or 3.0 I-20 blue nozzle would give you about the same precipitation rate as an MP-1000, for example. Keep in mind though, that you may not have a true square patten. For instance, your 13x17.5 square, if they are set up to not have any overspray, then one sprinkler will spray as far as the one across from it (13 feet), but not reach the one beside it (17.5 feet away). This will work, it just means your coverage will not be as even, and you may need to water longer to get adequate coverage at the corners of that rectangle, and the middle will get a little over-watered. Once it is all installed I would do a catch up test on each zone and figure out where you dry spots might be.

General recommendation is not to mix the sprays with rotors, but in reality the only thing that matters is if the precipitation rate is close. Sprinklers like the MP Rotators help out here, b/c they have a lower precip rate than the older style sprays, making it easier to mix and match those.


----------

