# JD 220SL Do new reel and bedknife need to professionally machined together?



## Dad_Who_Mows_Best (Jun 22, 2021)

Hi. I recently went against a manhole cover with my 11 blade 220SL and lost lol. The damage was on the end and I was able to get it working again to finish my cut. Expensive lesson. My question is can I replace the reel and bedknife myself, then backlap to mate/seat together, or do they have to be machined together at a professional shop, installer? I've heard from 2 different professionals they do, to mate/seat them together.

Thanks. 
Michael


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## Jace (Feb 28, 2020)

I'd replace the reel and bedknife and then do a grind on each. Whenever we put a new reel and/or bedknife on our mowers at work (I'm a golf course equipment tech) we do a grind on them. Check with local golf courses, some of them will do the grind for you. We do them for people at our course occasionally


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

The above is probably the best case. I've replaced my reel and bedknife with toro parts.. backlapped and adjusted them well enough I cut paper at any point. Not even folded paper, but a single strand of newspaper even.

Put them together and backlap a bit to mate the surfaces and see where it gets ya before you load it up and hunt down someone to take it apart and grind a new reel.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

FATC1TY said:


> The above is probably the best case. I've replaced my reel and bedknife with toro parts.. backlapped and adjusted them well enough I cut paper at any point. Not even folded paper, but a single strand of newspaper even.
> 
> Put them together and backlap a bit to mate the surfaces and see where it gets ya before you load it up and hunt down someone to take it apart and grind a new reel.


+1

I did the same with my Baroness, replace the reel and bedknife and a quick backlapping and it was as sharp as a razor. I don't see why you would need to grind a brand new reel and bedknife for but I have never worked on JD or Toro before either. Oh, I did replace the reel and bedknife on a Jacobsen and did the exact same thing without any issues.


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## Dad_Who_Mows_Best (Jun 22, 2021)

Thanks all! I'll at very least replace the parts and see it works before taking it to the place I've used before.

Michael


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## swebbrrt (Jun 12, 2021)

I replaced my reel and bedknife 3 weeks ago. I backlapped with 120 grit about 15 minutes and finished it off with 180 grit, it turned out razor sharp.


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## Dad_Who_Mows_Best (Jun 22, 2021)

swebbrrt said:


> I replaced my reel and bedknife 3 weeks ago. I backlapped with 120 grit about 15 minutes and finished it off with 180 grit, it turned out razor sharp.


On your JD? Do you mind me asking were you got the parts from? JD or aftermarket?

Thanks,
Michael


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

On my JD 220e I installed a new bed knife and 7 blade reel. Adjusted clearance and backlapped for all of 5 minutes with 120 and then 220. It cut paper across the entire reel with no problems on all blades. I don't think you should need a grind on a new reel and bedknife.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I think the consensus for most of us DIY-ers is that a good backlap after a new reel and bedknife will do just fine.

I'll add that I just got my 1600 bedknife professionally replaced with a fresh grind and it's smoother than any backlap I've ever put on either of my reel mowers. It just hits different..

If you can get a fresh grind put on it without breaking the bank - do it!


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## Dad_Who_Mows_Best (Jun 22, 2021)

Thanks everyone. A 9 blade reel and new bedknife along with misc. parts ordered from R&R. Gonna try it myself 1st and see how it goes. It's just too much of a cost savings to try and do it myself vs the place I've had it serviced before. I have a 11 blade now, but I've read that a 9 blade for a C will also fit a SL. Will test that and update how it goes. :thumbup:


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## Dad_Who_Mows_Best (Jun 22, 2021)

JerseyGreens said:


> I think the consensus for most of us DIY-ers is that a good backlap after a new reel and bedknife will do just fine.
> 
> I'll add that I just got my 1600 bedknife professionally replaced with a fresh grind and it's smoother than any backlap I've ever put on either of my reel mowers. It just hits different..
> 
> If you can get a fresh grind put on it without breaking the bank - do it!


A fresh grind on the reel? Or the bedknife? Or both?

Thanks,
Michael


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Dad_Who_Mows_Best said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> > I think the consensus for most of us DIY-ers is that a good backlap after a new reel and bedknife will do just fine.
> ...


Great question. I'm going to assume they ground both.


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## Jace (Feb 28, 2020)

Dad_Who_Mows_Best said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> > I think the consensus for most of us DIY-ers is that a good backlap after a new reel and bedknife will do just fine.
> ...


We grind both


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## Dad_Who_Mows_Best (Jun 22, 2021)

Jace said:


> Dad_Who_Mows_Best said:
> 
> 
> > JerseyGreens said:
> ...


Is that done with the reel and bedknife on the machines?

Thanks,
Michael


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## swebbrrt (Jun 12, 2021)

R&R states on their features and specs for the reel you just bought that it comes with a relief grind already, the bedknife comes with "front edge grind for extended life" you just need to mate them with a good backlapping. Why waste money on a grind that is already done?


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## Jace (Feb 28, 2020)

Dad_Who_Mows_Best said:


> Jace said:
> 
> 
> > Dad_Who_Mows_Best said:
> ...


We grind the reel while it's mounted to the mower, we grind the bedknife while it's off the mower, but mounted to the bedbar


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## Dad_Who_Mows_Best (Jun 22, 2021)

swebbrrt said:


> R&R states on their features and specs for the reel you just bought that it comes with a relief grind already, the bedknife comes with "front edge grind for extended life" you just need to mate them with a good backlapping. Why waste money on a grind that is already done?


Yes sir, that's what I thought to, but wasn't sure since I'm only about 6 months into the greensmower game. :thumbup:


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## Jace (Feb 28, 2020)

swebbrrt said:


> R&R states on their features and specs for the reel you just bought that it comes with a relief grind already, the bedknife comes with "front edge grind for extended life" you just need to mate them with a good backlapping. Why waste money on a grind that is already done?


Do you know what a relief grind is? A relief grind is totally different than when we do a spin grind on a reel. When we grind a bedknife , we grind the front face at one angle, and then we grind the top face at another angle.

Over the past month I have had to grind over 100 reel and replace countless bedknives (and yes I put a fresh grind on every new one).


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## TulsaFan (May 1, 2017)

I had the head Tech for Baroness tell me the following, "_When replacing the bed knives, you will not need to grind the bedknife if you use Baroness original bed knives. The bed bar and the contact surface on the bed knives are CNC machined, and will ensure an accuracy that regular grinders cannot match."_

Likewise, the following blogpost from MTI in 2013 says the opposite...

_Tuesday, December 10, 2013

http://mtiservice.blogspot.com/2013/

It's all in the angle
Thought I would make a quick post about bedknife angles now that people are starting to grind their reels.

The grind on a bedknife is very important, and every bedknife should be ground. (including new ones) This ensures a parallel surface for the reel. Another thing that often gets overlooked is that bedknives should be tightened with a torque wrench to ensure they do not twist when tightened down. I have seen it where people tighten them too much and then have to take off a lot on each of the ends of the knife to get it straight. People quickly blame the bedbar when it is often the knife bolts.

•	Make sure the bedbar threads are clean.
•	Use new Toro screws. Apply anti-seize lubricant to the screw threads before installing.
•	Tighten the screws working from the center toward each end of the bedbar. DO NOT use and impact wrench.

Fairway/utility mowers:
250 - 300 in.lb.

Greensmowers:
200 - 250 in.lb

Make sure you are grinding your knives to the proper angle. If the angle is off I have seen very sharp reels that won't cut paper even when tightened down. Use the guide below to make sure you have the correct angle. I have it taped to the wall next to our grinders. _

Seems like everyone has an differing opinion...Just like a spin only vs spin/relief grind. :lol:


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## swebbrrt (Jun 12, 2021)

Dad_Who_Mows_Best said:


> swebbrrt said:
> 
> 
> > R&R states on their features and specs for the reel you just bought that it comes with a relief grind already, the bedknife comes with "front edge grind for extended life" you just need to mate them with a good backlapping. Why waste money on a grind that is already done?
> ...


Seems there are differing opinions here, if you have any doubts just call R&R and ask. Have fun replacing your reel, it's a great way to get to know the mechanical operation of your greensmower :thumbup:


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## swebbrrt (Jun 12, 2021)

Jace said:


> swebbrrt said:
> 
> 
> > R&R states on their features and specs for the reel you just bought that it comes with a relief grind already, the bedknife comes with "front edge grind for extended life" you just need to mate them with a good backlapping. Why waste money on a grind that is already done?
> ...


I'm no expert but, I do understand the difference between a relief grind vs. a spin grind. What's the advantage to a home owner to have a spin grind done when they have to load their mower and pay some one to regrind it every time the reel becomes a little dull vs. having a relief grind that they can backlapp to a precision cut multiple times at home possibly for a few seasons? Am I wrong here? :roll:


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## Dad_Who_Mows_Best (Jun 22, 2021)

Hi all,

I got the reel and bedknife out yesterday and that was way too easy to pay someone ever again. I will put the new parts in and torque to spec the new bedknife screws. At worst, I have to take it in to the get the parts machined together.

Thanks all!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

A new reel and bad knife are machined to close tolerances. This means that you don't have to do a grind when replacing, but do understand that everything has some tolerances. When mounted, the reel to bearings, bearing to housing, housing to frame, etc will all add up. So doing a lite machine grind is a good practice mainly to ensure it is all squared. Must do, no, but a nice to have.


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## Dad_Who_Mows_Best (Jun 22, 2021)

g-man said:


> A new reel and bad knife are machined to close tolerances. This means that you don't have to do a grind when replacing, but do understand that everything has some tolerances. When mounted, the reel to bearings, bearing to housing, housing to frame, etc will all add up. So doing a lite machine grind is a good practice mainly to ensure it is all squared. Must do, no, but a nice to have.


Makes perfect sense, thanks! If I'm gonna hit water meter metal covers, or find a 3" screw from a winter shed project (yes that happened to my 1600 during scalping) every couple of months, likely a moot point in getting the parts machined perfectly lol


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## Dad_Who_Mows_Best (Jun 22, 2021)

Hello all,

I received the 9 blade RR yesterday, but found that the stock 11 blade AMT2886 (that fits in the SL and C according to the JD parts diagram) aren't the same. Was really bummed to find this out. I don't understand how the 1 blade AMT2886 shows to fit in a SL and C, but the 9 blade won't in the SL...... unless there is a different housing seal and/or housing itself.



RR 9 blade reel


JD 11 blade reel


Reel housing


Anyways, I ordered the RR 11 blade version and hope that works. RR doesn't show any parts for the SL, but the cross reference # is the same as the JD blade I have now.



Any thoughts are welcome. 
Michael


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## kay7711226 (Jun 24, 2020)

Dad_Who_Mows_Best said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I received the 9 blade RR yesterday, but found that the stock 11 blade AMT2886 (that fits in the SL and C according to the JD parts diagram) aren't the same. Was really bummed to find this out. I don't understand how the 1 blade AMT2886 shows to fit in a SL and C, but the 9 blade won't in the SL...... unless there is a different housing seal and/or housing itself.
> 
> ...


What was the part number for the 9-blade at R&R? 
Are you saying the 9 blade will not fit? I have a 220a and looking to replace to a 9 blade from my current 11 blade.


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## Dad_Who_Mows_Best (Jun 22, 2021)

kay7711226 said:


> Dad_Who_Mows_Best said:
> 
> 
> > Hello all,
> ...


The RR 9 blade reel is part# RET11055 and no, it wouldn't fit my SL.


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## Dad_Who_Mows_Best (Jun 22, 2021)

I received the 11 blade reel from R&R (part#RAMT537) and the portion of the shaft where the housing seal is the exact same.



Don't know how either of these R&R parts (9 blade and 11) fit in a C. Would love if someone had a C, with the 9 blade could show any difference.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Just curious, did that 11 blade from R&R come with a grind? In that pic it looks like the edges are painted.


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## Dad_Who_Mows_Best (Jun 22, 2021)

lbb091919 said:


> Just curious, did that 11 blade from R&R come with a grind? In that pic it looks like the edges are painted.


They say it does and it does feel like it, but ya it has paint on it. A backlap should take that right off.


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## kay7711226 (Jun 24, 2020)

Looking at the pic again on the 11 blade reel is the bearing removed? what's inside the housing you removed?

Post your question in the official JD forum(https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=97) I think @Pete1313 can give you an answer since he swapped one in the past?


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## Dad_Who_Mows_Best (Jun 22, 2021)

Just heard from R&R about how both their reels can fit a C.

"The ET11055 (9 blade) reel uses a ET11063 seal.

The AMT537 (11 blade) reel uses a MT1160 seal.

The OD of the seals are the same, but the ET11063 has a 22mm ID and the MT1160 seal has a 25mm ID."

Seems there is a different housing seal to make a 9 blade work, where a 11 blade was.


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## Dad_Who_Mows_Best (Jun 22, 2021)

kay7711226 said:


> Looking at the pic again on the 11 blade reel is the bearing removed? what's inside the housing you removed?
> 
> Post your question in the official JD forum(https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=97) I think @Pete1313 can give you an answer since he swapped one in the past?


The bearings weren't taken out, so ya they are still in the housing.


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## Dad_Who_Mows_Best (Jun 22, 2021)

Hi all,

Update from the 11 blade install from R&R.

I got it in with no major issues (a few broken bolts as I was putting back together is all). To get it cutting across the entire reel, I ended up doing a backlap several times, 5 times with 120 grit (about 5 mins each session, hosed off with water each time to check progress) and when it was cutting all the way across, I did a final backlap with 180 grit. It's got a nice ting when cutting to it!



I cut my front yard with it (triple cut cause it needed it) and 9000 sq feet of cutting later, the reel to bedknife was still perfect. If I find I'm having to backlap after every couple mows, then I'll take it in for a professional grind.

Thanks everyone!
Michael


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

TulsaFan said:


> ...
> Seems like everyone has an differing opinion...Just like a spin only vs spin/relief grind. :lol:


Not like spin vs relief (which is simply an argument about labor cost, as both cut grass if executed well) at all. This is more of a discussion about what's able to be done with the tools at hand and if it's good enough for the intended application.

You must consider the quality of the parts involved. Perhaps for a Baroness, their reels and knives are indeed precise and consistent enough that a backlap is all that's required. Maybe that holds for an almost new Toro/Deere/Jake as well. A 20 year old greensmower (any brand) that's "seen some stuff" could be in a completely different place. Bed bar warpage, bed bar bushings, frame alignment, etc. How many of us are putting mowers up on surface plates and/or measuring bed bars for true surfaces? It's an unknown for 99% of the mowers that are not in professional golf service. We homeowners simply trust that the bedbar is true, the new knife is straight, and the reel is a true cylinder (new or not). Most of the time, we're close enough, and the longevity hit from being wrong (and backlapping the snot out of a poor alignment) isn't a deal-breaker. Few of us are stimp-ing our front lawns, and if you are, I'm preaching to the choir. :mrgreen:

It is indeed standard practice to do a light grind on new parts, especially bed knives, just to correct for slight imperfection. Plus, some mechanics/supers will adjust the bedknife angles to their course conditions. If the bed bar is warped .002", the new bedknife will be too as soon as it's mounted, assuming it was perfect to begin with (highly unlikely). That's not a big deal, a couple swipes with the grinder makes that all better. Same with the reels. It could have been perfect being ground at the factory, but that doesn't mean it runs identically in -your- frame, on -your- bearings. (But if it's not dang close, you have other problems! :? )


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## kay7711226 (Jun 24, 2020)

Nice to see it worked out, happy reeling. What bedknife profile did you go with and what's your HOC? Did you return the 9-blade was the return process ok with R&R? I am planning a 9 blade for my 220a and hope don't run into same issue. I can use your shift measurement as reference.


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