# Newbie Trying To Learn The Ropes - CarbonX N-Ext?



## burnhagw (Oct 17, 2019)

Hey everyone, I've been lurking for a bit. I have a new home build with tifway bermuda sod layed down about 2 months ago, in the dead heat of NC weather, pretty rough start. I have been keeping it watered, and threw some Milo down about 2 weeks ago. I've recently learned about the N-ext products and CarbonX fert. My question would be, would it be beneficial to me to thrown down some CarbonX now at the start of fall, or would it be a waste since I put Milo down 2 weeks ago. I also know the N-ext products are hit or miss with some folks here, but wanted to give the bio starter pack a shot, but was curious if I should just wait till the spring time or buy it now and do one application here in the fall. Thanks! The soil/clay is a bit hard so I figured Air8 might help and RGS might help with the new sod roots.


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## daniel3507 (Jul 31, 2018)

Right now I would focus more on pre emergent and hold off on fertilizer till spring. Get down you're pre emergent for fall and then again early spring (depending on how much you apply). Then it'll be time to really focus on the soil and fertilizer. Now is also a great time for a soil test. I would wait a couple months though since you put down some Milo.


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## burnhagw (Oct 17, 2019)

Cool, I did buy prodiamine, and was planning to do it but the sod farm I talked with kinda scared me off saying Prodiamine shouldn't be applied until sod roots are fully 100% rooted.

Do you think it's safe for 2 month old bermuda sod?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

That should be your first and last application of MIlo ever. If you are not lucky, it will lay dormant over the winter and cause ridiculous surge growth next spring. Secondly, Milo has 0 Potassium. For every Lb of N you apply to turf, you want at least 1/2 as much K.

If you have 419, even more important than what you apply to it is how you are planning to maintain a HOC between 1/2-3/8". 419 is not what I call a home lawn grass. It belongs on highly maintained golf fairways and sports fields. Maintaining it involves keeping a fine balance between starvation and just enough fertilizer. Mowing it low enough to keep it thin is a big part of it. If in fact you are pushing it with fertilizer and mowing it often, the side effect of that maintenance program is development of excess thickness in the grass.


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## burnhagw (Oct 17, 2019)

I have TifTuf Bermuda. It's what the builders installed. Height was 2" last weekend and I cut it on my highest setting. I'm still learning about all this. Since I put Milo down two weeks ago, I assume I'm done for the year with fert, would CarbonX be a good choice in the spring?


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## daniel3507 (Jul 31, 2018)

burnhagw said:


> Do you think it's safe for 2 month old bermuda sod?


I missed the fresh sod part somehow. I would maybe skip the pre emergent for now.

As for what fertilizer is best you'll get a different answer from everyone. Really it comes down to what nutrients does your soil need. Answer that and you'll have a better idea of what fertilizer and soil amendments to use.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

You might not need anything at first in the spring.


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## burnhagw (Oct 17, 2019)

daniel3507 said:


> burnhagw said:
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> > Do you think it's safe for 2 month old bermuda sod?
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Gotcha, better safe than sorry I guess. I'll get a soil test in a month or two like you suggested to see what's going on. Thanks


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## burnhagw (Oct 17, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> You might not need anything at first in the spring.


Gotcha, Guess I'll see what happens this fall/winter and go from there, thanks


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## burnhagw (Oct 17, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> That should be your first and last application of MIlo ever. If you are not lucky, it will lay dormant over the winter and cause ridiculous surge growth next spring. Secondly, Milo has 0 Potassium. For every Lb of N you apply to turf, you want at least 1/2 as much K.
> 
> If you have 419, even more important than what you apply to it is how you are planning to maintain a HOC between 1/2-3/8". 419 is not what I call a home lawn grass. It belongs on highly maintained golf fairways and sports fields. Maintaining it involves keeping a fine balance between starvation and just enough fertilizer. Mowing it low enough to keep it thin is a big part of it. If in fact you are pushing it with fertilizer and mowing it often, the side effect of that maintenance program is development of excess thickness in the grass.


So are you saying It's bad if the grass goes dormant over winter and comes back with good growth?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

There is good growth and then there is the kind of growth such that it is impossible to keep it mowed.


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## burnhagw (Oct 17, 2019)

Ok, I get what you're saying. Does my type of Bermuda need to be kept short like a 1/2" as well?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

According to the grass developer 1/2-2" is its maintenance height. Wide height range, but I would think Bermuda looks best between 1/2-1"


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## burnhagw (Oct 17, 2019)

Thanks for the info


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## BubbaGrumpus (Jun 17, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> That should be your first and last application of MIlo ever. If you are not lucky, it will lay dormant over the winter and cause ridiculous surge growth next spring. Secondly, Milo has 0 Potassium. For every Lb of N you apply to turf, you want at least 1/2 as much K.
> 
> If you have 419, even more important than what you apply to it is how you are planning to maintain a HOC between 1/2-3/8". 419 is not what I call a home lawn grass. It belongs on highly maintained golf fairways and sports fields. Maintaining it involves keeping a fine balance between starvation and just enough fertilizer. Mowing it low enough to keep it thin is a big part of it. If in fact you are pushing it with fertilizer and mowing it often, the side effect of that maintenance program is development of excess thickness in the grass.


Is Milorganite not recommended? I was actually planning to lean on it heavy next year.

Or was that specific to his grass type?


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

burnhagw said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> > That should be your first and last application of MIlo ever. If you are not lucky, it will lay dormant over the winter and cause ridiculous surge growth next spring. Secondly, Milo has 0 Potassium. For every Lb of N you apply to turf, you want at least 1/2 as much K.
> ...


It's bad if your bermuda is awoken before the last frost of the season. That could lead to winter kill across portions of your lawn.

Also - check around the yard to see if your sod has rooted. In my experience it should be very well rooted after 2 months. I have applied pre-emergent to new sod before 2 months and have had no issues.


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## daniel3507 (Jul 31, 2018)

BubbaGrumpus said:


> Is Milorganite not recommended? I was actually planning to lean on it heavy next year.
> 
> Or was that specific to his grass type?


Milorganite is good stuff. Can be hard to find now days and some places are a little expensive depending on how much you need. I used it for awhile and liked it but after using it for awhile it led to a little too much P in my soil so I had to switch.


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## BubbaGrumpus (Jun 17, 2019)

daniel3507 said:


> BubbaGrumpus said:
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> > Is Milorganite not recommended? I was actually planning to lean on it heavy next year.
> ...


So, someone that already has high P in my soil, I should probably steer clear too?

I need to post my soil test and have you guys recommend products. I just gotta figure out how.

Any other organic substitutes that have zero P? Carbon X? I'd like to use organic fertilizer for the fudge proof factor, also feeding the good stuff in the soil.

Sorry for the hijack.


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## burnhagw (Oct 17, 2019)

adgattoni said:


> burnhagw said:
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Most parts I've tested and couldn't pull it up. I know I have a couple pieces that will need to be replaced in the spring due to the crazy heat and sprinkle malfunction before we bought the house. But otherwise the grass seems to be in the ground pretty good. And are you saying this as a general rule of thumb for bermuda grass fall fert, or Milo is known to wake grass up too early if used in the fall?


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## burnhagw (Oct 17, 2019)

BubbaGrumpus said:


> daniel3507 said:
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I'm still really new to all this, but if you have high P, I would think CarbonX would be good for you


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## BermudaBoy (Jun 27, 2019)

burnhagw said:


> adgattoni said:
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The Milo won't do much of anything until things are very warm. Organics rely on the the microbial action in your soil to break them down for use by your lawn. At the very earliest it may start to break down in April but I generally won't put out Milo until May when the soil temp is above 70. But, if you get an abnormal period of high temps it may break down the Milo and give your grass an early shot of nitrogen and awaken it when another frost is down the road. It probably won't happen but last year was abnormally warm and wet in mid winter.


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## burnhagw (Oct 17, 2019)

BermudaBoy said:


> burnhagw said:
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> > adgattoni said:
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I see you're in Concord, very cool. I'm down in Waxhaw. Thanks for the helpful info.


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## BermudaBoy (Jun 27, 2019)

burnhagw said:


> BermudaBoy said:
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I'm in Waxhaw pretty regularly. I've got a good friend out there. If you need help I can always pop in when I'm down that way.

As far as fertilizer, leave your yard alone until spring. I'll start with CarbonX around mid April when my lawn is about half green and stick to that until mid June when things heat up. I used to be a huge user of Milo because it's fool proof but I no longer need all the phosphorus and need the pot ash for stress recovery so this year I plan to use XGRN during the periods of high heat. I supplement with 0-0-2 MicroGreene and a dash of 7-0-0 GreeNe Effect for micronutrients and a bit of iron in between fertilizer apps. Throw in a few applications of Humic DG during the growing season and that's the gist of my lawn care plan.


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## burnhagw (Oct 17, 2019)

BermudaBoy said:


> burnhagw said:
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Appreciate that! That's a great plan, thanks again for this incite.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Xgrn is probably the best fit for Bermuda. Bermuda benefits from sufficient Potassium. As for Milorganite, that is anything but foolproof. Not predictable. Lies dormant until it is very hot. Then when it does work, no idea for how long or how much it will work. Remember where Milorganite came from. Not from a warm season grass area. Definitely not from an area where low mowing is a practice.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> ...Remember where Milorganite came from... Definitely not from an area where low mowing is a practice.


I don't even trim around mine, I've heard of people having theirs waxed but... oh you're talking about Milwaukee. Never mind.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

was not thinking about that. I was thinking about all of the rough cut cool season lawns in the Milwaukee area.


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## LoCutt (Jul 29, 2019)

I always heard the best fertilizer for Bermuda was 4-1-2 ratios, but that was very old advice (mid 80s). With all these different Bermuda cultivars now (TifTuf is a low water/fertilizer, TifGrand is a triploid, not to mention all the seeded varieties), I'm beginning to think you have to give specific cultivar advice rather than "Bermuda" advice.


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## burnhagw (Oct 17, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> Xgrn is probably the best fit for Bermuda. Bermuda benefits from sufficient Potassium. As for Milorganite, that is anything but foolproof. Not predictable. Lies dormant until it is very hot. Then when it does work, no idea for how long or how much it will work. Remember where Milorganite came from. Not from a warm season grass area. Definitely not from an area where low mowing is a practice.


I think i will definitely try Xgrn next year, it looks like a good product.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

LoCutt said:


> I always heard the best fertilizer for Bermuda was 4-1-2 ratios, but that was very old advice (mid 80s). With all these different Bermuda cultivars now (TifTuf is a low water/fertilizer, TifGrand is a triploid, not to mention all the seeded varieties), I'm beginning to think you have to give specific cultivar advice rather than "Bermuda" advice.


so true. Optimum fertility rates and materials depends on cultivar as well as mowing practices. Tifgrand and Tiftuf are both lower input grasses. Key difference is that Tiftuf does not need a low mow like Tifgrand.


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