# Lawn reno help me pick



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

I have a good 30000 square feet in my back yard that is mostly weeds. I plan on doing a reno this fall of about 10000 of it. I figure I'll break it up in thirds to be able to handle it a little easier especially the irrigation part of it. I am looking into an irrigation system but not sure that's in the cards this year. Anyway I'm thinking I want a KBG lawn I was thinking of TTTF & KBG but thought I would try KBG first and if I have issues I can always overseed with TTTF. Can you please help me with the mix of kinds of KBG? I was thinking bewitched for sure since there is a few spots that are a little shady. 
Other types I was thinking was
Prosperity 
Award
Blueberry
I have never done a KBG reno so def need your help here
Most of my lawn has sun for at least 6 hours there are a few areas against fence thujha lines that are less maybe 3 or 4. 
I have 2 little dogs so that shouldn't be to bad.
Not sure about irrigation might get a system if not I should be able to handle the watering needs especially after the lawn is established.
I am taking a soil sample of the area and bringing to get a test done. Ct does it for free and will tell me what I need to get ready for my new lawn.
My plan is to nuke the site with roundup let it die then cut super low bagging all the clippings. Hit it with my york rake on my JD 1025. Then nuke again. I wait another week or 2. Top dress with 2 - inches of topsoil grade and level. Put down the nutrients I need according to the soil test.

Then seed and cover with peat moss. 
Any help I would appreciate


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Hmm, time is of the essence if you want to do a Reno. Let's walk backwards in time. I would target seed down first weekend of august. That's 6 weeks from now.

Irrigation plan is a most. You need to keep the seed moist with watering ~5 times a day for a few minutes. You need to be able to cover all 10k of lawn. But in reality you need the irrigation now. Why? You need to keep the lawn out of dormancy from the summer heat to have success with round up. I would do round up first weekend of July, then mid July and then the day of seed down. During all this time you want to irrigate to encourage grow so you could kill it.

But before all of this, I think it is important to have the seeds you want at hand before round up or get a flux capacitor. There is no point in killing your lawn if you can find the seeds you want.

Give pete1313 thread a read to see all the preparation for a successful Reno.


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

Well I did 2 smaller renos this spring, not with KBG tho. I used a northern mix. Both have grown in nicely. In both areas tho I didnt use Round up, I scrapped the top layer off of turf then spread 4 inches of topsoil. This worked pretty good as I have minimal weeds. That being said I wanted to try KBG and I know this is a much harder than my previous renos I've done. I feel confident I can handle it just want to make sure I choose the right seed for my area.
Thanks gman I read that thread


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

This is the current state of my back yard...I know its bad lol. I havent done anything to it but mow. Anyway so with only 6 weeks until I should seed I guess I need to start spraying soon to kill it all off.
Planting grass in the first week of August seems early as its still pretty hot but thats because KBG takes so long to get going right. So I get it about the irrigation situation. I use an above ground set up right now for my new areas of grass I will set something up if my in ground irrigation doesnt happen.


----------



## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Now would be a good time to do a soil test, and also work on improving the soil with organic matter and/or humus.

I like your plan of going with KBG first, and TTTF if needed later on.


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

Jconnelly6b said:


> Now would be a good time to do a soil test, and also work on improving the soil with organic matter and/or humus.
> 
> I like your plan of going with KBG first, and TTTF if needed later on.


Dropping soil test off today on my way to work :thumbup:


----------



## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Take a look in the cool season lawn journal section and read about some renos with KBG. @ericgautier @gregonfire @wardconnor @SNOWBOB11 @Ridgerunner are a couple that come to mind with good stands of KBG and know much more than I. @Green may be closest to you in location/climate. All have great information on cultivar selection.


----------



## gregonfire (Sep 18, 2017)

I agree with g-man about having the seeds on-hand before killing anything. The seeds can and do sell out, don't wait too long.

I got away with watering 3 times per day, not 5 due to the limits of my timers, and my reno had great germination (It was mostly TTTF though). Soil moist seed coat and a healthy layer of peat moss helps greatly.

Why do you want to use 2" of top soil? Seems like a lot. I did about 1/2" of top soil and compost blend. Pick up some tenacity and use that at seed-down to prevent weeds! Good luck to you!


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

I have sandy soil with not much topsoil. I know I need some good topsoil to grow grass...I have tried in the past with not very good results. This spring I did about 6000 sf in 2 different areas. I top dressed with 3-4" of topsoil. My grass is doing very good. So if Im going to step up my game with KBG I want to give it the best chance for success.


----------



## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

@JDgreen18 adding fuel to the fire.. check out my post KBG Monostand vs TTTF+KBG mix. You can't go wrong either way. :thumbsup:


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

ericgautier said:


> @JDgreen18 adding fuel to the fire.. check out my post KBG Monostand vs TTTF+KBG mix. You can't go wrong either way. :thumbsup:


So comparing the two if you had to do it all over which way would you go? All KBG or TTTF & KBG...seems like the mix of the 2 is a little easier all around.


----------



## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

JDgreen18 said:


> So comparing the two if you had to do it all over which way would you go? All KBG or TTTF & KBG...seems like the mix of the 2 is a little easier all around.


Honestly, I like both. The backyard was my first reno and wanted fast germination (TTTF) with the ability to repair (KBG). If you have the patience then go with KBG, if not... TTTF & KBG.

TTTF & KBG Day 21










vs

KBG Day 21










You can see just how full the TTTF & KBG lawn is.

As far as maintenance go, I treat both equally the same.


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

ericgautier said:


> JDgreen18 said:
> 
> 
> > So comparing the two if you had to do it all over which way would you go? All KBG or TTTF & KBG...seems like the mix of the 2 is a little easier all around.
> ...


I love the look of the tttf and kbg mixed I think im going this route...where did you get your seed from im gonna order asap so I dont change my mind again lmao


----------



## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

JDgreen18 said:


> I love the look of the tttf and kbg mixed I think im going this route...where did you get your seed from im gonna order asap so I dont change my mind again lmao


For TTTF I used The Hogan Blend and for the KBG I used Summit Seed but they no longer sell to the public. Ask Hogan if they have a KBG mix that goes well with their TTTF blend. My TTTF/KBG blend is in my signature.


----------



## LIgrass (May 26, 2017)

JDgreen18 said:


> Well I did 2 smaller renos this spring, not with KBG tho. I used a northern mix. Both have grown in nicely. In both areas tho I didnt use Round up, I scrapped the top layer off of turf then spread 4 inches of topsoil. This worked pretty good as I have minimal weeds. That being said I wanted to try KBG and I know this is a much harder than my previous renos I've done. I feel confident I can handle it just want to make sure I choose the right seed for my area.
> Thanks gman I read that thread


If you feel it'll be too much of a challenge, I'd also consider PRG. Perennial rye is a beautiful grass that's basically an insta-lawn. Very underrated in my opinion for those new to this. Go look at some of the PRG renos in the lawn journals section. KBG is a lot more work up front but could be less maintenance after if it takes well (no need to reseed ever again).


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

^+1


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

LIgrass said:


> JDgreen18 said:
> 
> 
> > Well I did 2 smaller renos this spring, not with KBG tho. I used a northern mix. Both have grown in nicely. In both areas tho I didnt use Round up, I scrapped the top layer off of turf then spread 4 inches of topsoil. This worked pretty good as I have minimal weeds. That being said I wanted to try KBG and I know this is a much harder than my previous renos I've done. I feel confident I can handle it just want to make sure I choose the right seed for my area.
> ...


I feel I could handle it. I guess I'm just trying to wrap my head around the benifet of just a KBG lawn. After seeing the pictures with it mixed with TTTF it looks fantastic. My number 1 reason for wanting in the first place was for uniformity with color and texture of my lawn. That seems pretty good in the pics I saw. I couldn't really tell much difference between all KBG and the mix of the 2. 
That being said there are a few other challenges one being not my whole back yard gets full sun there are areas with a good amount of shade so I would have to mix here anyway. 
Also being that KBG takes so long to fill in Im just not sure the benifet is there. 
What is the percentage of TTTF to kbg when doing a mix seeding?


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

If you think you want a KBG grass, I would go for it first. You could always overseed PRG or TTTF later (like Connor).


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

g-man said:


> If you think you want a KBG grass, I would go for it first. You could always overseed PRG or TTTF later (like Connor).


This was my original plan. Im getting quotes on an irrigation system if this happens i might just try the kbg as it will be easier to meet the watering needs. For the months it takes to get going lol


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

I just ordered *** blend from Hogans I will try it I'm not scared lol


----------



## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

JDgreen18 said:


> I just ordered *** blend from Hogans I will try it I'm not scared lol


Awesome! :thumbup: Do you remember what cultivars are in the blend?


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

ericgautier said:


> JDgreen18 said:
> 
> 
> > I just ordered *** blend from Hogans I will try it I'm not scared lol
> ...


He said they use 8 different kinds of blue grass...said they use only elite grade but said they make the mix on availability of the seed.


----------



## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Awesome. Did you get to speak to Mr. Hogan? He's awesome.


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

Jconnelly6b said:


> Awesome. Did you get to speak to Mr. Hogan? He's awesome.


No it was Stephen he was very helpful. I had a good conversation with him.


----------



## LIgrass (May 26, 2017)

JDgreen18 said:


> LIgrass said:
> 
> 
> > JDgreen18 said:
> ...


I'm not sure, maybe 80/20 TTTF to KBG to get a 50/50 mix. Eric would probably know better. I believe TTTF weighs 5 to 10x more than KBG depending on cultivar. If uniformity is your priority, I would stick with all KBG. That mix of 8 cultivars you mentioned in the Hogan blend are probably mostly midnights. I'd be interested in knowing which ones they use if you could find out.


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

I'm not sure, maybe 80/20 TTTF to KBG to get a 50/50 mix. Eric would probably know better. I believe TTTF weighs 5 to 10x more than KBG depending on cultivar. If uniformity is your priority, I would stick with all KBG. That mix of 8 cultivars you mentioned in the Hogan blend are probably mostly midnights. I'd be interested in knowing which ones they use if you could find out.
[/quote]

They said they are shipping it out today so I should get it soon. I'll post a pic of the label when I get it.

Ok update I just called them to get the list of all 8 varieties 
Midnight
Award
Blue velvet
Rhapsody
Granite 
Quantum leap
Everest 
New glade
There is an equal amount of each of them in the mix and it was shipped out already...whoohoo :mrgreen:


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

I kinda wish it had blueberry cultivar in it. After reading up looks like blueberry is rated very high


----------



## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

JDgreen18 said:


> I'm not sure, maybe 80/20 TTTF to KBG to get a 50/50 mix. Eric would probably know better. I believe TTTF weighs 5 to 10x more than KBG depending on cultivar. If uniformity is your priority, I would stick with all KBG. That mix of 8 cultivars you mentioned in the Hogan blend are probably mostly midnights. I'd be interested in knowing which ones they use if you could find out.


They said they are shipping it out today so I should get it soon. I'll post a pic of the label when I get it.

Ok update I just called them to get the list of all 8 varieties 
Midnight
Award
Blue velvet
Rhapsody
Granite 
Quantum leap
Everest 
New glade
There is an equal amount of each of them in the mix and it was shipped out already...whoohoo :mrgreen:
[/quote]

I think all those cultivars are good. Thanks for posting. I've used Hogan for TTTF and bluegrass in the past, quality seed. Both men are nice (Stephen and Hogan).

I like your idea of KBG, lay a foundation for a forever lawn, it will spread and can go dormant. You can always seed TTTF in the future if you want it. I'm in NC, the bluegrass is holding up to the heat better than the TTTF. I like the look of my TTTF and hybrid bluegrass backyard better than the KBG (NuGlade, Midnight and SPF30) front. But the front is a little more neglected.


----------



## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

> They said they are shipping it out today so I should get it soon. I'll post a pic of the label when I get it.
> 
> Ok update I just called them to get the list of all 8 varieties
> Midnight
> ...


I think all those cultivars are good. Thanks for posting. I've used Hogan for TTTF and bluegrass in the past, quality seed. Both men are nice (Stephen and Hogan).

I like your idea of KBG, lay a foundation for a forever lawn, it will spread and can go dormant. You can always seed TTTF in the future if you want it. I'm in NC, the bluegrass is holding up to the heat better than the TTTF. I like the look of my TTTF and hybrid bluegrass backyard better than the KBG (NuGlade, Midnight and SPF30) front. But the front is a little more neglected.


----------



## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

JDgreen18 said:
 

> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > If you think you want a KBG grass, I would go for it first. You could always overseed PRG or TTTF later (like Connor).
> ...


I second and third this plan. Start with an ALL kbg lawn. Then sow in other varieties if you get the bug. Before you do any of this, buy a cylinder mower if you do not already have one 😉.

It is a lot easier to add than remove a certain grass type.


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

UPDATE...My seed came...damn I got that in 2 days. Also agreed to terms to get my irrigation system installed. lead time 3 weeks


----------



## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

Got my seed 25 pounds of it


----------

