# Prep for Spring. It is almost here



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Spring is approaching. For my area, the forecast for the next week is above normal temperature. My 2yr old daugther spotted two Eastern blubirdsin backyard. This means we have to get ready.

GDD tracker from MSU when active this am. It is showing 96GDD (base32) for my zipcode.

Before it is too late, select and buy the PreM you plan to apply. It is wise to have it at hand and not stressed about shipping/availability.

PreM
The cheapest option is Prodiamine WSG, but it means a liquid application. You might find locally prodiamine or dithiopyr in granular bags. Buying the 50lb bag online with shipping is very costly.

If these are not feasible, then go to Home Depot, Lowes, etc and buy a Crabgrass Preventer Fertilizer. Try to read the active ingredients to look for prodiamine or dithiopyr and the lowest possible nitrogen.

PS. I'm running out of time to finish my 220E rebuild!


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## FlyMike (Aug 27, 2017)

I was out looking for granular pre-m yesterday since my sprayer broke recently. I noticed that Lowe's has prodiamine in their Sta-Green Crab-Ex and doesn't have any fertilizer. They also have a Crab-Ex Plus that does have fertilizer of you want to go that route. If you're looking for Dimension, Home Depot has Lesco 19-0-7 with Dimension in a 50lb bag. 
I ended up going with the Lesco since it was more cost effective even though I'll have to do two apps.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

Do you find any difference in weed suppression between liquid and granular apps?

People don't think much of spreaders up here, but spray tanks raise eyebrows.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@FlyMike Good eye. Thanks for sharing this. It is nice to have multiple options that are convenient to buy. Some of the farm supply stores in Tennessee sell Dithiopyr in granular form and without the fertilizer added. Choosing between granular Dithiopyr and granular Prodiamine is a welcomed difficult decision.


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

https://www.domyown.com has free shipping and 10% off right now.


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## MarkAguglia (Jul 13, 2017)

I think I may go with the Hi-Yield granular dithiopyr from DoMyOwn. Anybody used this stuff before?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Sinclair said:


> Do you find any difference in weed suppression between liquid and granular apps?
> 
> People don't think much of spreaders up here, but spray tanks raise eyebrows.


I have not noticed. There is a difference in $, but for a small lawn, it is negligible.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

MarkAguglia said:


> I think I may go with the Hi-Yield granular dithiopyr from DoMyOwn. Anybody used this stuff before?


This one?
https://www.domyown.com/hiyield-weed-and-grass-stopper-with-dimension-herbicide-p-1779.html

This would be very expensive. $25 for 12lbs. Based on Purdue recommendation of 0.5lb ai/acre rate, this should be 9lb/1000 sqft . This results in $~18.75/1000 sqft.

The prodiamine is sold in 5lb (80oz) for ~$60. Based on Purdue recommendation of 0.65lb ai/acre, you will need ~0.2oz/1000 sqft. So you could treat 400,000 sqft with the 5lb or ~$0.15/1000 sqft. (I hope all my math is right).


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

I had mixed issues with prodiamine, lots of dandelion so I assume it doesn't control them. Just a heads up


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Dandelion is not in the label for prodiamine, but my experience it does suppress the *germination*. But here is the issue, the dandelions you see in spring with all the yellow flowers, those likely germinated last fall. If you pull one, the root goes very deep and that root did not just grow from March to May.

The ideal time to deal with these is in the fall. https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/AY/AY-9-W.pdf


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## MarkAguglia (Jul 13, 2017)

Good looking out g-man, they're description says it treats 3500-5000 sq ft. My lawn is about 4000 and i figured the Hi Yield would cover me.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Sinclair said:


> People don't think much of spreaders up here, but spray tanks raise eyebrows.


So true. You can use your spreader all you want and no one thinks anything about it but take out the sprayer and all your neighbors think you're trying to kill them with noxious chemicals.

I have my granular pre-e dithiopyr ready for this season but when I start spraying pgr and seranade I know the neighbors are going to start getting all whiny.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

MarkAguglia said:


> Good looking out g-man, they're description says it treats 3500-5000 sq ft. My lawn is about 4000 and i figured the Hi Yield would cover me.


Their estimate is based on a lower lb of ai/sqft.

This turf tip from zac reicher shows in a nice graph why to use the higher rates. 
https://www.agry.purdue.edu/turfnew/tips/2009/02202009_Premergence.html

Here is more info on why do a split application to total the same recommended application rate is better. https://turf.purdue.edu/report/2011/PDF/15_AGRY_Patton_sequential%20apps.pdf


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Like last year, we had a warm February and a cold/snowy March. Many regions in the GDD model show that their are at optimal time, but it could be too early to apply PreM. The idea of the model is to predict when the ground temp at 2in is around 50F. Crabgrass germinates at 60F, but you want the PreM there before that. Current ground temps in Indy are around 40F.

The model optimum timing goes from 250 to 500 GGD and the long range forecast will keep it below the 500 for at least a week. There is still time to apply PreM. If you already applied, it is not a problem. I'm going to target the ~400 (or before spring break vacation).

"Although GDDTracker tells me it's go-time, the other indicators of soil temperature and forsythia blooming don't." - Kevin Frank - MSU Post around last year weather

The post goes into more detail than what I posted above and it is a good read.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Anyone buying in on the green county bio packs? I really want to get some kelp meal or seaweed extract into my lawn this year as the plants I treated with Dr. Earth seaweed extract last year were much hardier and drought tolerant than years past.

The packs at $110, $140 shipped seem like a good deal to get all those different bio nutrients in the lawn. Anyone going for it?

*if this is a post hijack, apologies in advance. I think it fits here but feel free to move or tell me to create new thread.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Hijacks are fine. I normally place my money on alfalfa pellets or cracked corn when I want to increase my organic content. I have no experience with these packs.


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

Jconnelly6b said:


> Anyone buying in on the green county bio packs? I really want to get some kelp meal or seaweed extract into my lawn this year as the plants I treated with Dr. Earth seaweed extract last year were much hardier and drought tolerant than years past.
> 
> The packs at $110, $140 shipped seem like a good deal to get all those different bio nutrients in the lawn. Anyone going for it?
> 
> *if this is a post hijack, apologies in advance. I think it fits here but feel free to move or tell me to create new thread.


I'm trying it out this year. Only cost 104 from lcn. No shipping charge to me.


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

I found this smaller bag of granular prodiamine for covering up to 5k. Prefect for my lawn size. $24 seems like a good price. Free shipping, too!

https://www.solutionsstores.com/barricade-granular-herbicide?CAWELAID=120308880000000735&gclid=Cj0KCQjwkKPVBRDtARIsAA2CG6EIAdjy87Qy9Rw322sfafL_uokNaqh4YjdrEuKuQNVhLWAGtd5N42EaAlYrEALw_wcB

Edit: Looks like it is $11 shipping to a homeowner..


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Bad news. New forecast is out and it is below average weather for the rest of March. I hope they are wrong.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

I'm so tired of this weather. Was out doing yard work and the lawn was starting to green up already at this time last year. Nowhere near that this year.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

New forecast is out. This is getting old.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Agree...current weather pattern is awful.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Roots arent't going to get to any depth before heat hits. I think that's a big reason why my non-irrigated lawn did so well in the summer heat last year is we had an early spring and plenty of growing before the heat came. Also probably, there really wasn't any real heat wave here.

Either way, I'm still probably a week or 2 away from putting down first app of Tenacity.

What bums me is I have a beautiful 50 lb. bag of Hogan TTTF blend, and want to put it down and get it established, as I'm getting married out of state on May 12 and at this rate that grass will still be in it's very needy phase, if it even germinates by then. Of course for our wedding, everyone who normally would help out while I'm gone is also going to be away!


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

I keep checking cpc.noaa.gov, and I agree, its getting old and depressing...


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## fusebox7 (Jul 27, 2017)

Pete1313 said:


> I keep checking cpc.noaa.gov, and I agree, its getting old and depressing...


But the one-month outlook looks fine  My golf league starts 4/23 so by then things better start shaping up! It's going to be a rough go for most of April I have a feeling...


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Jconnelly6b said:


> Roots arent't going to get to any depth before heat hits.


Maybe. But roots are definitely growing now, even if not at the optimal rate.


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## rockinmylawn (Mar 25, 2018)

What are the effects of applying too much prodiamine last fall? Let say a lot too much....like 4x too much....


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## sicride (Nov 8, 2017)

If you didn't see the problem last fall when you applied it, I'd say you're in the clear. Otherwise quantity of prodiamine extends length of coverage, however no prodiamine this year, use dimension (dithiopyr) with a split application if possible. Since both are root pruning pre-emergents you may want to be extra careful during any drought conditions this summer and assist with some watering. Even though our grasses are "safe" with these products, they are still effected the same way by the products to some extent.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

I would say you'll see some root pruning forsure. I would skip on the spring dimension


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## rockinmylawn (Mar 25, 2018)

Turfguy93 said:


> I would say you'll see some root pruning forsure. I would skip on the spring dimension


I googled real quick what "root pruning" for lawn was & couldn't conclusively understand what it meant.
Is it to stop root growth or to promote it?



sicride said:


> If you didn't see the problem last fall when you applied it, I'd say you're in the clear. Otherwise quantity of prodiamine extends length of coverage, however no prodiamine this year, use dimension (dithiopyr) with a split application if possible. Since both are root pruning pre-emergents you may want to be extra careful during any drought conditions this summer and assist with some watering. Even though our grasses are "safe" with these products, they are still effected the same way by the products to some extent.


I just messed up the formulation last fall & read an old scale wrong ended up using the per acre mix rate vs. per sqft rate . So while I didn't see any damage in the fall through winter. Early observation of my lawn so far appears to show slow greening vs. my next door neighbors.

What makes it inconclusive further is that my lawn always lag vs. neighbors' chem lawns in March.
Past soil test have been inconclusive.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Just saw on the local weather that we had the 4th warmest February and something like the 10th coldest March!


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## zinger565 (Nov 28, 2017)

Green said:


> Jconnelly6b said:
> 
> 
> > Roots arent't going to get to any depth before heat hits.
> ...


Even under 8 inches of snow?


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

Basically you'll have root knubs where the prodiamine barrier is.


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## rockinmylawn (Mar 25, 2018)

Turfguy93 said:


> Basically you'll have root knubs where the prodiamine barrier is.


So maybe a reason for my delayed greening vs. neighbor's?

And could it be this way all year?


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

Delayed greening could be from any number of reasons. Your roots should recover once the barrier starts to break down. Once the heat hits I would watch close for drought stress and be diligent with water. It'll be fine


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## rockinmylawn (Mar 25, 2018)

Turfguy93 said:


> Delayed greening could be from any number of reasons. Your roots should recover once the barrier starts to break down. Once the heat hits I would watch close for drought stress and be diligent with water. It'll be fine


Thanks for the feedback.
Luckily I have irrigation system.

But Knowing long-term it won't be the Prodiamine issue is relief.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

No problem!


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## jackiec522 (Oct 7, 2017)

I applied a granular pre emergent a few weeks ago when the soil temp reached late 40s, but then we got hit with 10" of snow the following week. Does that mean I need to re apply?? Or is it ok?


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

jackiec522 said:


> I applied a granular pre emergent a few weeks ago when the soil temp reached late 40s, but then we got hit with 10" of snow the following week. Does that mean I need to re apply?? Or is it ok?


You will be ok. The pre-m barrier will still be there when the snow melts.


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