# How soon to overseed?



## Skankhunt42 (Jul 16, 2021)

So I'm planning on doing an overseed this fall. First frost date here is October 12 I believe. I'm in climate zone 6b. When is the idea time to lay the seed down? Here is the mix I'm going to use.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Here's what Purdue has to say about the best time:
https://www.agry.purdue.edu/turfnew/pubs/AY-3.pdf
Early in the seeding window is better than later.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Interesting grass mix do you have a lot of shade on your property?


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## Skankhunt42 (Jul 16, 2021)

M32075 said:


> Interesting grass mix do you have a lot of shade on your property?


Yeah in the front. Only 2 trees but they are mature and big and it's a small lot. The side and back gets a lot of sun so I figure a 'sun and shade' mix would be ideal.


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## Skankhunt42 (Jul 16, 2021)

The shady areas have what I assume is a fine fescue of some type or maybe KBG. It's very soft and cushiony to walk on and has a deep green color. Id like to get more of it going. Not sure how well it would do in the sunny areas.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

That mix has a decent percentage of annual ryegrass. It's considered a grassy weed and can sometimes be difficult to get rid of.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

To be honest I'm not thrilled with the seed as snow bob said the annual rye could be a problem. I would buy two separate bags of seed. Sun shade mix for the front with the trees and a tall fescue or KBG or a mix of both for the side and back. I really think the sun shade mix in sunny areas you're not going to be happy in the summer the fine fescue will be dormant the whole summer that's going to make the grass always have that it's half dying look.


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## jimmythegreek (Aug 7, 2020)

I agree that fine fescue is gonna go brown in summer and have the off color yellow look. How much shade are we talking about? Many tttf amd even kbg can tolerate indirect sun easily as long as its not permanent shade


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

I would not use that seed. If you have shade, I would go with tall fescue. If you have good sun and some shade, I'd do kentucky blue grass. If you don't know, I'd do a mix of both.

Best timing is september 1 to 15

This site is expensive but with 1K sqf, it's reasonable IMO. Here's the link

https://www.seedsuperstore.com/


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## Skankhunt42 (Jul 16, 2021)

jimmythegreek said:


> I agree that fine fescue is gonna go brown in summer and have the off color yellow look. How much shade are we talking about? Many tttf amd even kbg can tolerate indirect sun easily as long as its not permanent shade


We're talking quite a bit of shade in the summer. I'll take a picture tomorrow. What do ya recommend for a blend of sun and shade mix? Or should I just use two totally different varieties for different areas?

I really like the fine grass in the shady areas. I'd love to find a type that can perform that way and be tolerant of sun.


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## Skankhunt42 (Jul 16, 2021)

tgreen said:


> I would not use that seed. If you have shade, I would go with tall fescue. If you have good sun and some shade, I'd do kentucky blue grass. If you don't know, I'd do a mix of both.
> 
> Best timing is september 1 to 15
> 
> ...


Sounds like a mix may be the way to go.

Skankhunt out!!!!!!!


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## johnklein25 (Apr 22, 2021)

M32075 said:


> To be honest I'm not thrilled with the seed* as snow bob said the annual rye could be a problem.* I would buy two separate bags of seed. Sun shade mix for the front with the trees and a tall fescue or KBG or a mix of both for the side and back. I really think the sun shade mix in sunny areas you're not going to be happy in the summer the fine fescue will be dormant the whole summer that's going to make the grass always have that it's half dying look.


My experience with Annual Rye; I thru down some Annual Rye last year to help fill in some spots where other grass won't grow due to moisture issues, it germinated, and then established quite well last spring, then came out of dormancy this spring and looked OK until around early June when it turned brown and stalky. Now that it's died off and looking terrible, the weeds are coming in. While it was healthy the rye grass did a great job if keeping other grass from intruding, and keeping weeds out as well. The $5 word for this known quality of rye grass is allelopathy. Based on this experience I would avoid any grass blends with high percentage of annual rye.

I planted seed superstores shade fescue blend last year. I would expect it to do well in your shade.

Fine fescue would do OK but won't hold up to much foot traffic if you have any. I bought some cheap creeping red fescue seed last fall just to play with and noticed the germination rate was pretty slow (about 2 weeks if memory serves). 
I have have a good amount of fine fescue in my front yard - it will go dormant if you have any sunny/dry spots at all. It also tends to lay down so it doesn't cut well.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Allelopathy as far as I know can happen with all rye grass. If you use it in a mix keep it at a very low percentage. High percentage it will over time become the dominant grass the other grass will slowly die off if I understand it correctly


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

I am putting down a shady seed mix myself, in two different spots. I can attest to fine fescue lying down flat and looking bad in full sun.


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## jimmythegreek (Aug 7, 2020)

KBG has similar look amd feel as fine rescues. It likes sun amd self repairs. It's usually the most sought after grass for Reno's. The issue is that it needs lots of water. I have kbg amd tttf blended although I have a high ratio of kbg not just some mixed in. The areas in the shade line behind the solid vinyl fence are the thickest and greener than anywhere else getting very little direct sunlight. If you can water it that's how I would go. Otherwise I would search out the most shade tolerant ratings of tttf from your areas college/university tests amd do a 3 way blend of tttf amd include the best shade varieties. After a season you will see where it thins out fron shade and you can spot overseed those areas with just that one strain


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## Retromower (Jan 28, 2021)

I would seed in early September. As for what seed to use, it really just depends upon just how much shade you have. Im kind of in the same boat as you, in that I have the front of my yard that is shaded by some large, mature trees, so it only gets sun for a for a few hours a day.
I did some fine fescue and it actually did really well (went from no grass to about 50% coverage) until I killed it my mixing my weed killer spray too strong.
Im going to reseed again in about a month and Im kind of torn between doing fine fescue again or doing a mixture of KBG and tall fescue.


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## Skankhunt42 (Jul 16, 2021)

I assume tttf is turf type tall fescue? That mixed with the KBG sounds like the way to go.

Got some solid advice here. Thanks guys!!


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## nclawnguy (Jun 27, 2017)

You could do better than that blend. Never do a mix with annual rye unless its temporary cover.


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@Skankhunt42 , btw the way hilarious name. I love South Park. I have TTTF mixed with KBG and am happy with it. My sod had PRG mixed in and don't care much for it.


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## Skankhunt42 (Jul 16, 2021)

So I just read through the cool season lawn guide and apparently KBG isn't a good idea for an overseed, as it's too slow too keep up with the existing grass outgrowing it, only for a Reno and I'm definitely not doing that. So maybe TTTF for the sunny areas and fescue mix for the shady?

As for the mix I posted with the rye grass. I laid a little bit down just to patch some bare spots for now to keep weeds out. It sprung up in like 4 days and is now pretty thick and dense. Would it be a good idea to rip it out before I do the over seed and then lay straw over the bare areas?


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## Skankhunt42 (Jul 16, 2021)

Jeff_MI84 said:


> @Skankhunt42 , btw the way hilarious name. I love South Park. I have TTTF mixed with KBG and am happy with it. My sod had PRG mixed in and don't care much for it.


Glad you appreciate it!!


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## Skankhunt42 (Jul 16, 2021)

Something else just popped into the ole noggin. Can you just mix it all up into one instead of doing one type in the shade and one type in the sunny areas?

My thinking is that whichever one is better suited for the area will thrive and the other will just die out. Or am I way off base?


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## thin_concrete (Sep 11, 2020)

I'm in a similar boat, though it's my back yard that needs more help and is covered by shade. That said, I'm doing a big overseed in both the front and back with rhizomatic TTTFs as they, at least on paper, appear to be drought resistant and a good dark color.

Yes, you can mix different types and come up with your own blend of seeds. Diversity may help with fungus/disease resistance too.


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## Skankhunt42 (Jul 16, 2021)

thin_concrete said:


> I'm in a similar boat, though it's my back yard that needs more help and is covered by shade. That said, I'm doing a big overseed in both the front and back with rhizomatic TTTFs as they, at least on paper, appear to be drought resistant and a good dark color.
> 
> Yes, you can mix different types and come up with your own blend of seeds. Diversity may help with fungus/disease resistance too.


Do you have a link or something for the rhizomatic tttf? Drought resistant and the ability to spread with rhizomes sound like something I'm interested in.


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## johnklein25 (Apr 22, 2021)

Would it be a good idea to rip it out before I do the over seed and then lay straw over the bare areas?

IMO yes, I would rip it out because the Annual Rye can limit growth/establishment of other grass types (see prior post regarding allelopathy)


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## thin_concrete (Sep 11, 2020)

Skankhunt42 said:


> thin_concrete said:
> 
> 
> > I'm in a similar boat, though it's my back yard that needs more help and is covered by shade. That said, I'm doing a big overseed in both the front and back with rhizomatic TTTFs as they, at least on paper, appear to be drought resistant and a good dark color.
> ...


Sure:

Going in the front yard:
https://hearneseed.com/turf-type-tall-fescue-titan-rx/

Going in the back yard:
https://hearneseed.com/rhizing-moon-tall-fescue/

My front yard faces west, so during our New England summers it gets baked. The back yard, however, backs up into the woods and is very shaded. Based on a handful of reviews I read, the Rhizing Moon, while stout in the sun, is excellent in shade too. The Titan is, according to other reviews, good in the shade but excellent in the sun.

Whether either of those are true will be known over the next year or so! Good luck!


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## Skankhunt42 (Jul 16, 2021)

Thanks you too!!


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