# Rotary mower for (large) highly maintained lawn



## Thejarrod (Aug 5, 2018)

I've been reflecting on how well my Ferris IS700 is performing on my lawn. I picked it up used In early march and was a huge upgrade over my Deere D110. Its fast, cut quality is quite good, appears to be very durable and looks great in the garage :lol: . But is it really the best mower for me? Its durability also makes is heavy and its caused some damage to the turf. The front tires It can make divots when doing even gentle "K" turns on soft ground. The drive wheels can lose traction when making turns on slight slopes and spin out. The drive wheels can also scuff the turf when navigating around flower beds. and I can see that its tougher on grass when simply driving around. the some pics below. If you think I'm just bad at using the machine, feel free to let me know!

I want to mow at least twice a week, so is a commercial grade zero turn the best choice for my roughly 40,000 ft?

I've thought about a few alternatives, would appreciate some feedback.

Option 1. Front mount mower. Walker's Model C is a couple hundred pounds lighter and looks like its more gentle on turf. i like how they describe it as "machine for commercial operators getting started in high-end property maintenance". i also like the bagging system. multiple passes dragging the lawn sweeper to clean leaves is a major source of the extra wear on the turf. https://www.walker.com/models/c19/ Toro/ExMark also have a similar design. 
Option 2. Golf course grade rough mower. @Ware had a John Deere version, i've also read about the Toro grounds master 4300. these look AWESOME, but i've never used anything like it and i would be concerned about using one as my only mower. https://www.toro.com/en/golf/rough-mowers/groundsmaster-4300
option 3. Walk behind commercial mower w/ 50-60" deck. These can also weigh north of 800 lbs, so i'm not sure if it would be more gentle on the turf. I also lose towing and speed. https://www.ferrismowers.com/na/en_us/product-catalog/walk-behind-mowers/fw35-walk-behind-mowers.html
Option 4. work with what i got. I could get tires with an off-road style tread for better traction or learn to drive it better. I could also reduce mowing frequency (not likely) or only mow when the ground is dried out (also not likely). https://www.carlislebrandtires.com/our-products/product-detail/versa-turf/

Here are some pics of the damage I caused. 
small scuff from turning the corner:

larger scuff on a high traffic area:

tire spin. this is slight uphill and ground was moist:

high traffic area between front and rear lawn. this is from maybe a dozen trips in and out when cleaning leaves with the lawn sweeper:


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## LoCutt (Jul 29, 2019)

I'm a big fan of Walker Model T mowers, but they're really only applicable when bagging. Any big mower can tear your turf up, but you definitely lessen the damage by slowing before turns. If your lawn is reasonably flat, you might consider replacing the turf tires with slicks. If you have hills this could backfire on you.

And I do like the fact that the Walker isn't as heavy as many others. Weight may add durability but it's a liability for the turf. Speed is the biggest factor in damaging the turf.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

You might look at Grasshopper front mounts. With 50K square feet you want something you can ride on.
The Toro golf course mower looks pretty awesome too.


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## Thejarrod (Aug 5, 2018)

thanks @gene_stl I checked out grasshopper website and they do look nice! do you have a front mount grasshopper? i'm curious if the front mount is really more gentle than mid mount zero turns.


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## Ngilbe36 (Jul 23, 2020)

I dont quite have the area of lawn that you do, but I have a 42in ZTR and I feel your pain. I find that in shady areas even when being EXTREMELY careful its very easy to damage the grass. I have been trying to use the trimmer more around these areas so I am not forced to make sharp turns as well as mowing every other time with a manual reel mower in the tighter shadier areas. I am also considering getting a small (20-24in) walk behind rotary for these areas.


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

Ferris is a great brand and this might just be a war of colors but I feel in the mid mount section in terms of cut quality exmark and scag are higher- I havent used all 3 but I have used the scag vs ferris and from what I am told exmark does better. Again I feel this might be a personal preference.

Walker mowers also cut fantastic no doubt and with bagging leave a superior finish to most. As someone who likes the clean look, I would choose this option. I'm not sure whether just lighter would solve the turf ruts in soft soil that difficult for anything of this size.

As ware said brought mowers are great but painful.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Have you considered a 4 wheel steer lawn/garden tractor vs a ZTR? Lighter, and plenty durable to last years/decades mowing 1.2 acres 2x a week. They are specifically designed to avoid the damage in your pictures. Also, even a simple differential lock like what would be found on the Deere GX or X500 series would solve any spinning from traction loss on slopes.

New models are the Deere X384/394 or the X584.
Used, look for the X324. or the X534. Older models were available with all-wheel steer too. The LX277AWS, LX280AWS both were AWS versions of the base models.

The uber-garden tractors had a few AWS/4WS versions, a couple with 4WD as well. (current production models in blue.)

425AWS, 445AWS, X475AWS, X485AWS, X724, X734 = Gas 2WD 4WS
455AWS, X495AWS, X744, X754 = Diesel 2WD 4WS
X729, X739 = Gas 4WD 4WS
X749 = Diesel 4WD 4WS

A commercial ZTR is def not going to be an improvement for turf damage vs what you have.

Operator skill may play into this a bit, but there are also plenty of machine factors involved too. Tire Pressure, tire tread (although the stock tire on the IS700 is very good), weight distribution and control dampening all play a part.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

I switched from JD zero turn to JD x394 all wheel steer like @MasterMech mentioned.

And I really enjoy it.

There's pros and cons to both.

But I got tired of the tires tearing my lawn and the all wheel steer doesn't tear the lawn at all.

Cutting time is a little longer than with zero turn.

But trimming around flower beds is super easy with all wheel steer.


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## Thejarrod (Aug 5, 2018)

@uts I think Exmark sets the benchmark for commercial mowers. I was set on getting a lightly used mower, so i would have been a buyer for any of the models you mention. I found the ferris with barely over 100 hours and scooped it up.

The walker, at its core, is still built on a zero-turn style platform (2 drive wheels, etc). it LOOKS like its gentle on turf, but a thorough testdrive would be needed before i pull the trigger. 
And those golf course rough mowers or trim mowers are so tempting...but not a great choice in real life for someone like me. I'll keep dreaming about one....i just need to stop looking at the auction website. https://bid.uselevel.com/ui/auctions/164/120584

@MasterMech and @ENC_Lawn I appreciate your thoughts on the 4 wheel steer lawn tractor. this is not something that I had considered. I assumed that a lawn tractor was not going to be "enough" mower for me, but its clearly a viable option. the ones you mention are VERY different than my old D110. need to do a bit more research here.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Thejarrod said:


> @uts I think Exmark sets the benchmark for commercial mowers. I was set on getting a lightly used mower, so i would have been a buyer for any of the models you mention. I found the ferris with barely over 100 hours and scooped it up.
> 
> The walker, at its core, is still built on a zero-turn style platform (2 drive wheels, etc). it LOOKS like its gentle on turf, but a thorough testdrive would be needed before i pull the trigger.
> And those golf course rough mowers or trim mowers are so tempting...but not a great choice in real life for someone like me. I'll keep dreaming about one....i just need to stop looking at the auction website. https://bid.uselevel.com/ui/auctions/164/120584
> ...


As a former turf equipment pro - I will say that a machine intended for golf/sports turf/municipal use is something I would think long and hard about jumping into. These machines are expensive new, typically more than most of us spend on new cars and even pickups. Hence, replacement parts are also expensive. By the time an 80k rough mower ends up in an auction, it likely needs at least the cost of a new mid-range ZTR in parts. And a mower that can cut 8+ feet in a single swath is a tad bit overkill on 1 acre, even it's wide open. Even having to replace the main hydraulic hoses on a 10+ year old machine.... is going to be a significant expense. Nevermind if you also have a couple lift cylinders weeping and need to rebuild one or more of the hydraulic motors. My exception to this would be if someone with a few acres to mow/clean/shovel wanted to get into a front-mount mower, ie: Deere 1445 or similar. They are relatively simple, and you won't find much that's more durable. BIG leaf blowers, snow blowers, plows, sweepers, glass cabs with heat/ac, are all possible with a front-mount. Still a very heavy unit though.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

@Thejarrod I have both a Hustler mid mount (Raptor Flip-up 54 inch 25 hp Kohler) and a Grasshopper front mount (729 BT6 61 inch powerfold deck 29 hp Briggs Vanguard)

I wanted a Grasshopper folding deck and my dealer switched me to the Hustler which was one third the price. There are more flip ups now just as there are more front mounts.

The two machines handle differently. The Hustler does not tear up my lawn much. If it did you wouldn't notice it because I have a bad mole AND gopher infestation. The Grasshopper is faster and more stable. It has a ROPS which is probably important for me because I have some slopes and berms that are a big pia. It is more massive to turn because its front mount deck is out there in front and is really heavily built. The Hustler is more "sports car like" more maneuverable and accelerates faster but has a lower top speed.

I like the way the Hustler cuts. The Grasshopper cuts slightly better. It looks great as soon as you are done. The Hustler sometimes leaves lines that take a day or two to even up. The Grasshopper rides much better than than the Hustler it has a Grammar seat. I bought extra cost front suspension forks and seat springs for the Hustler but the Grasshopper is much easier on my back. The Grasshopper front mount, articulates and follows the contour of the ground better than a mid mount. I like that a lot and is part of why it cuts better.

The Grasshopper is also a tractor. One of the reasons I bought it is that you can put an AeraVator on which I am looking to buy a used one. It also has a large assortment of available attachments such as snow blowers, rotary brushes , hooded sprayers, blades etc.

When I first bought this house four years ago Dec 16 I almost bought a John Deere four wheel drive , four wheel steering tractor. a 700 series but I don't remember the exact model. (A 739 I thimk,4wd 4ws gasoline engine). I went as far as talking to some dealers and actually pulled over to talk to a guy who had one (his was a diesel 2wd 2ws) For what the 700 series go for you can get a 1025 series too if you don't need 4ws. They are 4wd and bigger and probably more versatile. If you look at some tractor videos you will see the "real" john deere's are preferred by the week end farmer guys.

Grasshoppers are also available (like Deeres ) in diesel but I decided that at age 70 I don't need a fourth kind of fuel in my garage.

Of course there is always the mighty Ventrac. :mrgreen: :lol:

https://www.ventrac.com/


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

gene_stl said:


> ...
> 
> When I first bought this house four years ago Dec 16 I almost bought a John Deere four wheel drive , four wheel steering tractor. a 700 series but I don't remember the exact model. (A 739 I thimk,4wd 4ws gasoline engine). I went as far as talking to some dealers and actually pulled over to talk to a guy who had one (his was a diesel 2wd 2ws) For what the 700 series go for you can get a 1025 series too if you don't need 4ws. They are 4wd and bigger and probably more versatile. If you look at some tractor videos you will see the "real" john deere's are preferred by the week end farmer guys.
> 
> ...


An important distinction between the 700 series and the 1 series SCUTs is that of agility and ground pressure. It's true that the two machines are about the same size and price. (assuming both are 4WD diesel units) But one is geared more towards turf care and the other is equipped for heavier tasks and dirt work. Both are capable of impersonating the other at work. (Is the 700 series still offered with a loader?) But neither of them excel equally at both task sets. A property owner who purchases a 1 series expecting it to mow 2x a week as comfortably, light-footed and nimbly as the 700 series does would be just as disappointed as one who buys an X700 series expecting to mount a backhoe.

Most who are looking at X700 series would probably be well-served moving into a 1 series SCUT, as they are looking for a tractor first and a mower second. Heck, many buy a ZTR to mow and never purchase/use the mower deck for their SCUT. But there is a minority who are a perfect fit with the X700 machines and knowing where your needs fall is critical to your long-term satisfaction.


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## SWB (Sep 22, 2018)

MasterMech said:


> gene_stl said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


I bought a 1 series (2305) with a 62" deck. Ended up removing the deck and buying an Exmark run behind which cut much faster. The cut on the 62 wasn't bad.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

If I would have bought a Deere, it would have been the 739. I know my limitations and I am not a backhoe nor a loader guy. 
I definitely would have been the fit for a seven hundred series as Mastermech mentions. I think I balked because I felt it was overpriced. I felt there was too much premium on the green paint. I did not quite see enough value. I could have been totally wrong but I felt they were marketing those as aimed at the yacht club set.

All the above comments are correct as far as I can tell, not having owned either.

Almost all the Deere dealers I spoke with (probably five) tried to convince me to buy the 1025 or similar. Those were usually in stock and the 700 series were usually not. I don't think they sell as well. Floor salesmen always want to sell what they have on hand.

Deere no longer makes buckets for the 700 series but the aftermarket does. Its a small bucket.

The Zero Turns are a much more competitive market so I think you get a little bit more. The 700 series doesn't have much in the way of competition. @MasterMech is there really anything? Most stuff is either a lawn Trac competing with the lower numbered deeres or another real tractor competing with the 1000 series.

Here in St. Louis most of the lawn care pros you see towing trailers have ExMarks on them. Huge market penetration. A dealer who also carries Grasshopper claims that ExMark has the best deck. I am prepared to doubt such a claim being very satisfied with the cut of both the Hustler and really happy with the Grasshopper. And yes for what I have spent I could have bought a 739. But I didn't know about the AeraVator at the time. Thank you Pete!






I had a bad experience with a big walk behind aerator and want one I can ride on.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

gene_stl said:


> ... I felt they were marketing those as aimed at the yacht club set.
> 
> ...
> Almost all the Deere dealers I spoke with (probably five) tried to convince me to buy the 1025 or similar. Those were usually in stock and the 700 series were usually not. I don't think they sell as well. Floor salesmen always want to sell what they have on hand.
> ...


Yacht Club - nah, those guys were buying mid-frame CUTs with mower decks and and all the other attachments. Usually back in the store within 4-6 months looking at big ZTRs to mow with or just hire a service to mow.

1 series is a big mover, and kicking some Orange behind at the moment, esp the 1025R. Which is not what's happening in the rest of the CUT line. Sell what you've got while you've got it. Usually a customer for the X7s will come to you knowing exactly what they want, and possibly be willing to wait for a custom order to come in. We always had a couple in stock. We were a little different than your typical Deere dealer though. Just 1 store, highly focused on commercial and premium residential turf equipment. With a healthy amount of municipal sales as well.

The Simplicity Broadmoor is the closest thing I've seen to a Deere X7 series. Very rare machine actually.

Exmark does have a winner with the UltraCut deck combined with their Triton spindle. It's about durability and serviceability combined with productivity and cut quality when we talk about what sells commercial mowers en masse. We'll pretend the xx5 decks (Triton) didn't happen. But that's not to say that each manufacturer doesn't have specific strengths. Deere's 7-Iron decks are pretty damned good too, and nothing I have seen can keep up with them in wet conditions.


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## Justin9314 (Jan 22, 2020)

I am super pumped to have my grasshopper delivered next week. I purchased the 725D 61" with the snow blower attachment. The rep said I would not be disappointed with the snowblower and swears by them. With a driveway 200' long, I wanted something powerful and easy to use.

However, I did consider researching the Altoz mowers. Their unique design is suppose to help with scuffs within the turf...

https://altoz.com/tracked-zero-turn-mowers/trx


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

You are going to love your 725D. If you are on Facebook there is a Grasshopper owners group.

The Altoz looks like something from the future. I would worry about whether the company will still be here in five years.
I also don't see how tracks can scuff less than turf tires.


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