# TTTF Overseed, don't want to break the bank



## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Hello all. First post, been reading around a bit and loving the information. I'm a first time homeowner, and lawncare is in my blood as my grandfather was the first to start hydroseeding in the state of Virginia... he got the contracts for seeding interstate 81 and 64 as they were being finished. Dad is in the geotextile industry, and uncle still runs the company grandad started.

Anyways, enough of that. I purchased my home in Feb of 2016 and had no idea what the lawn would look like when it woke up - well it looked horrible. Bare spots, trees too low/thick, odd green patches from apparent nitrogen spray (literally a ring of bright green in the back yard)tough soil, no earthworms, and tons of weeds. I started with Scotts, not knowing any better and at least woke up the turf. First summer was spent killing the weeds, preparing mulch beds, etc. Fall 2016 after a dry September, we dethatched, aerated, and over-seeded with Jonathan Green Black Beauty Ultra. Fertilized with milorganite, and had good results, most all the bare spots filled in, got a stand of grass under the thick tree, and was pretty happy.

Spring 2017 lawn came out roaring, I think I put down 2 bag rate apps of milo after the first freeze (not knowing it needed heat to be metabolized by the soil). Once it warmed up they started chewing it up and grass was happy, I was mowing every 3 days for almost 2 months. I put down dimension, and spot sprayed weeds as they came up. Put down milo on Memorial Day, July 4, and then Labor Day again did aeration and overseed. Used the same seed, but this time used Dr. Earth Super Natural Lawn Food (Organic) and then we had a dry spell but it was hot and humid. Fungus took in hard, and lawn was hurt. I don't think much of the overseed germinated, so wasted that one. I don't have irrigation and 15,000 sqft is too much for me to water at this time. Another app of milo end of September when it rained again, the fungus grew out and most of the patches filled in. I put down Lesco winterizer 30-0-05 once the growth stopped, and now here I am.

Lots of information, sorry if it's too much. Now for my question - most of the turf I have is a mix of kbg, large bladed TTTF, and a lot of fine fescue. The fine fescue browns in the summer, and looks horrible. I've tried to rake and over prep those areas before seeding, not a lot of luck. I want to overseed with a TTTF, and from what I can tell the 4th millennium is far and away the best. I don't want to break the bank - I have been playing with different blends on super seed store, and 4th Millenium, Traverse 2, and any bluegrass mix comes out to be $380 for a 50lb bag which to me seems ridiculous. If I were doing a reno, it makes more sense but seems high for an overseed, am I thinking correctly?

What would you suggest for a seed mix that I could overseed 15,000 sqft and fill in a couple patches, and spend less than ~$160 for the seed? I'm getting married in May, and fiance ain't gonna want me spending a ton of money on the yard again this year!

Also forgot to mention I think I have poa growing in many places, big clumps - which is the primary reason why I don't want to use the Jonathan Green again, I'm pretty sure it came from there. The shady nooks seed I have read actually has some poa in it, and I used a small bag of that in a shaded corner of the lawn.

Thanks in advance, love the knowledge here and some of y'a'lls lawns are incredible!


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

:wave: woohoo another Jersey lawnnut. 

I am very happy with the TTTF mix I got from The Hogan Company. You can see my renovation journal here.

If you are in CNJ, look into OcenGro, much cheaper than Milo.

Congrats on your wedding! Do you already have a wedding photographer? :lol:


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

In the fall of 2017, I order 50 pounds of high-performing (i.e., highly rated cultivars from the NTEP studies) TTTF cultivars from The Hogan Co. for a third of the cost of what you are currently considering. Shipping and handling was $30 (not sure if the shipping cost would be higher to NJ).
Of course, that is without the bluegrass.


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## Budstl (Apr 19, 2017)

You can get 50lbs mix of 4th millennium and traverse 2 from preferred seed for around $170. Not sure on the cost of shipping.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Eric - Thank you for the link, I will look into Hogan. Website isn't loading on work PC. I am right down the street from you and have been looking for OcenGro - where do you get it from? Thanks and yes, we are doing it in Virginia (my hometown) and have a photographer all set.

I will also check out preferred seed - thanks Budstl.

Am I making a good choice in overseeding with just TTTF? I 50% of my lawn gets more than 6 hours of sun, and then the backyard I am next to a major roadway, so I have a sound wall (south side of property) so doesn't get much sun.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

I second, third, 4th, etc. Hogan...
They're always my first stop for TTTF seed.

That $400 price you quoted from wherever is ridiculous. No way!

Much better prices from Hogan. They're meticulous about quality, too. And you'll probably enjoy talking with Mr. Bob Hogan, the owner, too. Loves to talk when he has time, and truly passionate about grass. (One time I mentioned a certain grass cultivar to him, and he told me that he was actually the one who had named it!) Either ask them for single cultivars or a blend, but know ahead of time which way you want to go.

You probably know this already...but it's going to take good soil prep work and a higher seed rate than a normal overseed to allow the TTTF seed to sufficiently compete with the existing FF and have a chance.

Question about the seed used on I-95...was it mostly KY-31? Do you know if they ever reseeded again since?


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## ericgautier (Apr 22, 2017)

Jconnelly6b said:


> Eric - Thank you for the link, I will look into Hogan. Website isn't loading on work PC. I am right down the street from you and have been looking for OcenGro - where do you get it from?


Ferris Farms in East Brunswick sells OceanGro. In April, they usually have a sale and if you have room to store, it is a good time to stock up on as many bags you might need for the season. But for me, Ferris is fairly close and if you buy 5 bags or more at a time, they discount it some anyway.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Jconnelly6b said:


> The shady nooks seed I have read actually has some poa in it, and I used a small bag of that in a shaded corner of the lawn.


Isn't that the one that includes Triv seed in it? Uh oh!


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Green - low mow and dusting with compost enough? Starting to think now I might buy enough for patches now and wait until fall for overseed. I asked my Pops and he says yes they seeded with KY31 and as long as he's been driving both he hasn't seen either reseeded.

I'll check out Ferris next time I'm down there. I but all my plants from Crossroad Nursery on 130 so next time I go hopefully can swing by and pick up Oceangro.

Yes it does have triv in it, and at the time I didn't know what it was or to avoid that cultivar. Now I have clumps everywhere. I painted with glypho yesterday probably won't do anything too cold but I want it gone.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Jconnelly6b said:


> Green - low mow and dusting with compost enough? Starting to think now I might buy enough for patches now and wait until fall for overseed. I asked my Pops and he says yes they seeded with KY31 and as long as he's been driving both he hasn't seen either reseeded.


I like the Greenskeeper II rake, which is available from Ace Hardware, to prepare the lawn first. It gets a lot of the dead stuff out without a huge amount of effort (at least compared to most other rakes I've used). I believe that's the name of the rake. I found out about it from @GrassDaddy last year, and used it before mowing for all overseeds, and then again after mowing. In stubborn areas, I also used one of those dethatching rakes with the stiff metal blades.

As far as spot reseeding, my original plan for this Spring was to grow the seed in trays and then transplant the sod. I did one tray last Fall, and it worked well. I just don't have the ability to grow enough for all the spots I have to redo (which were caused by Triv)...so I might have to do some seeding as well. The thing I personally don't like about Spring seeding is that the grass hasn't gone through a cold cycle.

Very interesting about the highway! Thanks for checking with him. That must have been done been decades ago....


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

@Green - I called Hogans yesterday and spoke with Bob for almost 40 mins, he sure is a bank of knowledge. Gave honest opinions about what works, and talked me out of adding KBG to overseed mix for the shady area of my backyard. Says it wont last. So he's sending a 50 lb. bag of the fescue mix - good price too I think it was $110 delivered, and I'll work on the shady area bare spots as well as the nuked spots after I murder the poa triv. He was surprised that Jonathan Green put that in their seed, and said it must have been the works of the other seed Dr. they have, not Jonathan Green - he wouldn't have done that.

I'll wait to overseed the rest of the lawn in the fall, and add a little KBG in the mix for color and regenerative ability.

Thank you all so much for your help! Now to get this snow to melt, and get out in the yard!


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Sounds like a plan!

The nice thing about Spring seeding for a shaded area is that if something goes wrong, you can do it all over again the beginning of August, or even the end of July, and then be well underway before it's the proper time to seed the rest of the lawn. So, you have two shots between now and then...at least.

Yeah, if it's partially shaded, TTTF is the way to go. Moderately shaded, and only FF would probably work. Deep shade...grass probably won't work at all.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

I like this point Green about having multiple chances to get seed going in the shade. I am thinking now I shouldn't be in such a rush to get it down though, as the soil temps back there will be a little slower than the full sun parts of the yard.


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