# Overwatered Centipede?



## revitup (Sep 19, 2020)

My centipede lawn was newly sodded last fall. I have an irrigation system which was installed by the previous homeowner and also a substantial amount of fencing, both wood and aluminum, also mostly installed by the previous owner. Fencing was installed, apparently, sometime after the irrigation system. As a result there are a few areas where the sprinkers impinge on the aluminum fence. I'm seeing curiously shaped dead grass areas in those spots. Could that be a result of overwatering where the water hits the aluminum fence and falls on the grass near the fence? There is some nutsedge growing in the bare areas, I'm guessing because the soil is so wet there. 
I've been following a regimen of fertilizer, pre-emergence, fungicide, and insecticide appropriate for centipede in my area and watering 1" per week in three applications (I have very sandy soil). I'm guessing I'm going to have to move several sprinkler heads to stop the water impingement on the fencing to fix the issue. Would appreciate a second opinion though as to the likelihood that this is the cause, and cure for my problem. Anything else I should be looking at regarding cause?


----------



## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

When it comes to centipede, less is more. From what I understand, this is a grass you can literally kill with kindness. Its water and fertilizer requirements are very low. The only downside to centipede is it doesn't tolerate heavy traffic. If I lived in the south, I would choose this as a grass to grow.

I will quote a paragraph from Paul Tukey's "Organic Lawn Care Manual" here where is had a discussion with a lawn care professional who said this:

"If someone is growing centipede on their lawn, I won't even bother going back. He doesn't need me. You hardly ever have to mow it and it doesn't need any nitrogen. There's no business in centipede."


----------



## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

That's what they say, I know, but good grief mine needed to be mowed every few days this past summer, and needed a lot more water than all the charts suggest. Once weekly mowing was a pipe dream. It has still been a lot of work. I'm also in a very sandy area.


----------



## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

mwemaxxowner said:


> That's what they say, I know, but good grief mine needed to be mowed every few days this past summer, and needed a lot more water than all the charts suggest. Once weekly mowing was a pipe dream. It has still been a lot of work. I'm also in a very sandy area.


Sand does complicate things for sure. I have a backyard area that is mostly coarse sand due to a filled-in swimming pool. Even the crabgrass struggles there! I'm thinking of trying alfalfa or birdsfoot trefoil as I want something there for erosion control.


----------



## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

It's doing pretty well. It's just not as "low maintenance" as I was led to believe centipede will be &#128514;. It's a good choice for this sand though, with the low nutrient requirements. And I personally prefer the look of it to Bermuda.


----------



## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

mwemaxxowner said:


> It's doing pretty well. It's just not as "low maintenance" as I was led to believe centipede will be 😂. It's a good choice for this sand though, with the low nutrient requirements. And I personally prefer the look of it to Bermuda.


I'm wondering if I could grow it in MA Zone 6A. Would it just turn brown in colder weather, or would it die? Generally centipede isn't advised in areas colder than Zone 7, buy I notice there is a newer more cold hardy cultivar available.

I have thought about growing zoysia, but zoysia rhizomes are too aggressive and get into everything.


----------



## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I can't answer that question. I have also heard/read that it doesn't do well where it freezes. It was 60 degrees here for over half of last winter. I was in shorts and a tee shirt on Christmas &#128514;.

Sometimes our Centipede doesn't even go fully dormant.


----------



## revitup (Sep 19, 2020)

I've found I can go 9-10 days between mowings. Been very sparing with the nitrogen. I'm going to cut back on the 1"/week water and see what happens. 
In answer to my original post/question, I'm guessing there is no other opinion other than excess water in those local dead areas? It's looks like a minor irrigation redesign is needed.


----------



## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

What happens if you stop watering your centipede? Does it just go dormant?

As far as mowkng frequency, I am assuming you mow this quite low as is common with other warm season grasses. We mow cool season grasses higher as in 2 inches in spring and fall to over 3 inches during the heat of summer. It's not unusual up here to have cool season grasses slow growth during summer to only need mowing once every 3 weeks or so.


----------



## revitup (Sep 19, 2020)

If I stop watering in season it would dry up and die I assume. It's dormant in winter of course and watering requirements stop essentially but I'm told it may need some watering in an extremely dry off season.
My HOC measured blade height is 1 7/8". That's the lowest I can go (rotary) without scalping areas. It seems to lay somewhat lower than that because, I guess, it gets drawn upright as it's cut and then lays back down. I've read 1/2" - 1" HOC for centipede. Have to be a putting green.


----------



## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

revitup said:


> If I stop watering in season it would dry up and die I assume. It's dormant in winter of course and watering requirements stop essentially but I'm told it may need some watering in an extremely dry off season.
> My HOC measured blade height is 1 7/8". That's the lowest I can go (rotary) without scalping areas. It seems to lay somewhat lower than that because, I guess, it gets drawn upright as it's cut and then lays back down. I've read 1/2" - 1" HOC for centipede. Have to be a putting green.


I don't know about centipede, but cool season grasses will turn brown and go dormant as a defense long before they die. I really think you would have to stop watering centipede for a long time to kill it.

Putting green, LOL?


----------



## mre_man_76 (Aug 4, 2018)

Deadlawn said:


> revitup said:
> 
> 
> > If I stop watering in season it would dry up and die I assume. It's dormant in winter of course and watering requirements stop essentially but I'm told it may need some watering in an extremely dry off season.
> ...


Not a putting green but this is centipede reel cut @ .75 inches


----------



## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

@mre_man_76 that is A beautiful lawn. Never seen centipede look so dark.


----------



## Karogers318 (Sep 20, 2020)

We have centipede sod was installed last fall I'm in South Georgia so it gets pretty hot during the summer I've been cutting around 3-3 1/2 inches. I want to work it shorter for next year any advice?


----------



## mre_man_76 (Aug 4, 2018)

TN Hawkeye said:


> @mre_man_76 that is A beautiful lawn. Never seen centipede look so dark.


I always apply iron with my micro stacks but this is my first year using PGR. I believe that plus the low cut is the reason for the good color. It was a very wet season so that may be the reason but my waterings went way down this season as well. Wonder if the PGR has something to do with that.


----------



## bmw (Aug 29, 2018)

Yes, I would lay off the watering and see what happens. For the most part, just leave it alone and it will thrive. Mowing is the most important thing w/ centipede. Not watering it for a while will just cause it to turn a hazy color, but centipede has a very fast recovery when the rain comes. At least mine does.

FYI I have a "How to Fertilize Centipede Grass" video that I would be interested in some feedback. Just dabbling with this to see if there is any interest in a Centipede YT channel, because there is nothing out there, lol. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imGemmi81eQ


----------



## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Deadlawn said:


> What happens if you stop watering your centipede? Does it just go dormant?
> 
> As far as mowkng frequency, I am assuming you mow this quite low as is common with other warm season grasses. We mow cool season grasses higher as in 2 inches in spring and fall to over 3 inches during the heat of summer. It's not unusual up here to have cool season grasses slow growth during summer to only need mowing once every 3 weeks or so.


It just gets kind of stringy and gray. But then recovers about an hour after it's watered.

Honestly with a yard your size, I would not water unless the grass shows signs of needing it, then water very deeply. A little stress is a good thing. Makes the roots go a bit deeper searching for water.


----------



## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

bmw said:


> Yes, I would lay off the watering and see what happens. For the most part, just leave it alone and it will thrive. Mowing is the most important thing w/ centipede. Not watering it for a while will just cause it to turn a hazy color, but centipede has a very fast recovery when the rain comes. At least mine does.
> 
> FYI I have a "How to Fertilize Centipede Grass" video that I would be interested in some feedback. Just dabbling with this to see if there is any interest in a Centipede YT channel, because there is nothing out there, lol. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks:


For fertilizer on centipede, I have found sometimes the nitrogen feeds the weeds more than the grass. What I've been doing this year, and has done REALLY well for me is to get the blue bag sunniland pro fertilizer from Lowe's with all the micronutrients. it says a bag is supposed to cover 18000 sf. I stretch it to an acre


----------



## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

Darth_V8r said:


> bmw said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I would lay off the watering and see what happens. For the most part, just leave it alone and it will thrive. Mowing is the most important thing w/ centipede. Not watering it for a while will just cause it to turn a hazy color, but centipede has a very fast recovery when the rain comes. At least mine does.
> ...


Do you think this is better than other fertilizers? That's a similar NPK ratio to the fertilizer I used this year, but what I have been using is something off the shelf of my local hardware store. I don't remember the brand but it wasn't a big name brand.


----------



## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

mwemaxxowner said:


> Darth_V8r said:
> 
> 
> > For fertilizer on centipede, I have found sometimes the nitrogen feeds the weeds more than the grass. What I've been doing this year, and has done REALLY well for me is to get the blue bag sunniland pro fertilizer from Lowe's with all the micronutrients. it says a bag is supposed to cover 18000 sf. I stretch it to an acre
> ...


I do, but not for the reasons you might expect. What I like is the micronutrients in it. So few of them have molybdenum, and that stuff does. I stretch the fertilizer so thin, I doubt the NPK ratios matter that much. I know older guys that swear by steelmaking basic (as in alkaline, not uncomplicated) slag and lament that they cannot get it. Loaded with lime, iron, manganese, magnesium, phos, sulfur, moly, etc. Also has chrome in it, but its trivalent, not hexavalent. All the minerals that a glacier deposited a hundred thousand years ago.

Regardless of the brand, I find that if I give it much more than 0.25 lb/1ksf of nitrogen, the weeds and invasive bermuda take off. If I starve the grass, the centipede outcompetes the bermuda, but it takes forever for it to take back over.


----------



## revitup (Sep 19, 2020)

BMW, great video, all sound advice I've heard elsewhere. Like to hear your thoughts on mowing height and frequency. What about advice on a product to reduce PH?


----------



## bmw (Aug 29, 2018)

@revitup thanks for the positive feedback and suggestions!


----------



## SC Grass Loon (Jun 7, 2019)

mre_man_76 said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
> 
> 
> > @mre_man_76 that is A beautiful lawn. Never seen centipede look so dark.
> ...


I started reel mowing my centipede this year at a little under .75" and started PGR and micros and like yours it loves it. We have been a little cooler this year which I think help reduce water usage along with the PGR. I am easily getting 7 day mowing periods and not getting close to the 1/3 rule.


----------



## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I'm interested in micros, but I don't know where to start! What are you guys applying to centipede? Mine looks decent, and looks really good after a fresh fertilization. Then it tapers off until the next fert app. I think it needs something more.


----------



## SC Grass Loon (Jun 7, 2019)

I am using 2 fl oz/1000 sq ft of feature 6-0-0 along with .5 fl oz/1000sq ft of PGR about every two weeks. I use the greenkeeper app website to track the timing. This is in addition to a granular program that carolina fresh farms put on their website. It is basically the same as the clemson extension program. I want to try to move to all foliar feeding next year.


----------



## mre_man_76 (Aug 4, 2018)

SC Grass Loon said:


> I am using 2 fl oz/1000 sq ft of feature 6-0-0 along with .5 fl oz/1000sq ft of PGR about every two weeks. I use the greenkeeper app website to track the timing. This is in addition to a granular program that carolina fresh farms put on their website. It is basically the same as the clemson extension program. I want to try to move to all foliar feeding next year.
> 
> I do the same with my pgr apps with iron plus micros. Everything is tracked through greenkeeper app. Reason I add micros is because my soil test showed deficiencies.





mwemaxxowner said:


> I'm interested in micros, but I don't know where to start! What are you guys applying to centipede? Mine looks decent, and looks really good after a fresh fertilization. Then it tapers off until the next fert app. I think it needs something more.


Can't add for the sake of adding. Get a test done and see what/if anything is needed. Your lawn looks lush and healthy. Could be lacking something which would help with retaining color longer. My one and only test was done in fall 2018 and haven't had a test done since. I plan on testing again this fall to see if I closed any gaps.


----------



## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

Is there any sense in having my soil tested now? I mean, itsy not gonna change over winter is it? 😅

Any need for any tests other than the standard test?


----------



## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

I always thought when centipede was really nice and dark like that it was overfed? It's normally almost an apple green. Don't get me wrong, I love the look!


----------



## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

mwemaxxowner said:


> Is there any sense in having my soil tested now? I mean, itsy not gonna change over winter is it? 😅
> 
> Any need for any tests other than the standard test?


I would say the standard test and the organic matter are the only ones you need unless you live on a main road where there is a lot of salt spray, then the soluble salt test might be a good idea. Measuring nitrogen is useless since soil N levels vary so frequently, so you can scratch that one.

Should you get the test now or next spring? That is up to you. Though if you recently fertilized, it is important to wait at least 6 weeks before taking a soil sample.


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

@mre_man_76 @SC Grass Loon

My hats off to you guys and you are killing it with those Centipede lawns :thumbup:


----------



## GrassAndWater12 (Jan 5, 2019)

I've posted this pic before (centipede) but it's my best shot of the year. I do a foliar spray of 4oz per 1k of Chelated Iron and Humic once a month to give it that dark green. I also use the knock off Milorganite that Lowe's sells and have had great results.

And to answer the over watered question.. I bet the head is hitting the fence causing more water to run down and land in that one spot.


----------



## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

GrassAndWater12 said:


> I've posted this pic before (centipede) but it's my best shot of the year. I do a foliar spray of 4oz per 1k of Chelated Iron and Humic once a month to give it that dark green. I also use the knock off Milorganite that Lowe's sells and have had great results.
> 
> And to answer the over watered question.. I bet the head is hitting the fence causing more water to run down and land in that one spot.


Nice looking yard! I too find that humic seems to do great for the yard, although with some of the more knowledgeable guys posting about humic, I'm starting to wonder if it's really just expensive carbon. I don't do the milorganite or milo knock off thing. i'd need a pallet...


----------



## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I'm currently having to cut mine at 2.5" to avoid scalping. A level is on the agenda first thing next year. I hope that will get mine looking better and maybe allow me to cut it lower and encourage it to spread sideways also.

@revitup I hope you don't mind my tagging along in here. It's so seldom that there's any discussion going on about centipede. When I see a post with some real good information about centipede going on I get excited. Lol


----------



## revitup (Sep 19, 2020)

mwemaxxowner said:


> @revitup I hope you don't mind my tagging along in here. It's so seldom that there's any discussion going on about centipede. When I see a post with some real good information about centipede going on I get excited. Lol


No problem. I noticed the same thing. Not a lot of centipede discussion. Hopefully these experienced centipede guys will continue to share!


----------



## revitup (Sep 19, 2020)

GrassAndWater12 said:


> And to answer the over watered question.. I bet the head is hitting the fence causing more water to run down and land in that one spot


Thanks for the input, I have to think you are correct. My neighbor calls it 'root rot'.


----------



## SC Grass Loon (Jun 7, 2019)

Darth_V8r said:


> I always thought when centipede was really nice and dark like that it was overfed? It's normally almost an apple green. Don't get me wrong, I love the look!


Thank you! I agree that was my understanding and you can see my neighbor across the street is closer to the normal color - although he probably a little light. I have not changed nitrogen levels in any measurable way, the nitrogen in the FEature 6-0-0 is miniscule. It was the combo of the three things - mowing reel low, the micros and the PGR. I am also not getting any crazy thatch build up or growth that I used to get when I mowed with the rotary. It was the knowledge base here and a few guys that I saw do this like @Brodgers88

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2142

There was another guy in Louisiana that was reel mowing centipede as well although I never bookmarked it. When we put a pool in I switched the backyard to zorro and planned to reel mow and decided to do the same with the front.


----------



## SC Grass Loon (Jun 7, 2019)

Mightyquinn said:


> @mre_man_76 @SC Grass Loon
> 
> My hats off to you guys and you are killing it with those Centipede lawns :thumbup:


Thank you!


----------



## mre_man_76 (Aug 4, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> @mre_man_76 @SC Grass Loon
> 
> My hats off to you guys and you are killing it with those Centipede lawns :thumbup:


Thanks for all the props. Means a lot coming from everyone in here.


----------



## mre_man_76 (Aug 4, 2018)

SC Grass Loon said:


> Darth_V8r said:
> 
> 
> > I always thought when centipede was really nice and dark like that it was overfed? It's normally almost an apple green. Don't get me wrong, I love the look!
> ...


I have to agree with this. I too came across @Brodgers88 thread and he got me into reel mowing my centipede last season. That along with pgr and micros got the lawn dark and lush. My nitrogen load for the year is just under 2 pounds.


----------



## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I know that centipede is a slow grower, but mine has been very very slow to spread and fill in bare spots. For instance I have one 6-8" gap from a skid steer track that hasn't filled in over the whole season. And a few other spots that were maybe torn up but turning too sharp when too wet with the zero turn or something along those lines early in the season. I'll say smaller than a dinner plate, that haven't filled back in much.

I feel like my centipede is pretty healthy overall. It looks good, and has received 1lb N/1000 twice this year. I think the fertilizer was 26-0-8 or something along those lines.

I'm having to mow at 2.5" to avoid scalping a few high spots.

Are my expectations too high for spreading, or is it mostly because of my high HOC I'm using? Can I expect more lateral spreading next year after I level and can hopefully cut it lower? I may try PGR also.

Picture attached to demonstrate what I'm considering healthy and doing well.



Here, you can see on the fringes of where I stopped my sod. There was existing centipede but thin. It has done virtually nothing to fill in the bare area. The side hasn't spread into it, and the existing grass hasn't spread. Could be a soil issue I suppose. I think it has received plenty of water but I haven't focused any tuna can tests over there.

Notice the shade from the tree. That's a factor too I'm guessing?


----------



## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

mwemaxxowner said:


> I know that centipede is a slow grower, but mine has been very very slow to spread and fill in bare spots. For instance I have one 6-8" gap from a skid steer track that hasn't filled in over the whole season. And a few other spots that were maybe torn up but turning too sharp when too wet with the zero turn or something along those lines early in the season. I'll say smaller than a dinner plate, that haven't filled back in much.
> 
> I feel like my centipede is pretty healthy overall. It looks good, and has received 1lb N/1000 twice this year. I think the fertilizer was 26-0-8 or something along those lines.
> 
> ...


What kind of tree? Oak and gum roots denature the soil, so even with plenty of sunlight you won't get good growth.


----------



## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I think it's a type of oak.

I have a few other spots near trees that are doing okay, but not as well as the surrounding grass. I was sure that's what was going on with them. This spot pictured was far away from the tree enough I thought that wasn't it. But perhaps it is!

Could one possibly put a band aid on that by applying more fertilizer or some other kind of aid specifically to that/those type of spots?

In the other areas I was going to just enlarge the needle bed around the tree and get rid of the grass in that area, but this one pictured is not in a spot practical for that.

If all the answers are no, I may try to place some sod here and see if I can get that to grow.


----------



## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Sometimes, the roots do funny things, chasing moisture, minerals, etc, and you can get weird features. Only way I've ever gotten grass to grow decent under an oak is via chainsaw and stump grinder...

Now that said, you might find something like dwarf mondo that will grow under that oak, and with very little light, and be very low maintenance. But as far as typical turfgrasses, I think you'll be hitting your head against a brick wall. Even throwing fertilizer at it, as I don't find centipede really responds well to much fertilizer. if anything, it helps the weeds more than the grass


----------



## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

Meh. I think I'll just leave that area alone then. Let it do whatever it does. It's on the outskirts of my property, and as such is a minimal eyesore. I still may chuck some sod down there though, if I ever have some left on an order. See what happens. (I have some Bermuda patches I want to kill, remove, and sod as centipede, and I have an area that I think I want to remove with a sod cutter and turn into shrubs and needles. I could transfer that possibly)

Other than that spot, though, in my other areas away from that tree is my experience still typical? And maybe due to high HOC?


----------



## mre_man_76 (Aug 4, 2018)

mwemaxxowner said:


> I know that centipede is a slow grower, but mine has been very very slow to spread and fill in bare spots. For instance I have one 6-8" gap from a skid steer track that hasn't filled in over the whole season. And a few other spots that were maybe torn up but turning too sharp when too wet with the zero turn or something along those lines early in the season. I'll say smaller than a dinner plate, that haven't filled back in much.
> 
> I feel like my centipede is pretty healthy overall. It looks good, and has received 1lb N/1000 twice this year. I think the fertilizer was 26-0-8 or something along those lines.
> 
> ...


In the past I had the same issues trying to fill in, this year I spot leveled a couple places with pure sand and it filled in nicely. Yes it's a slow grower but maybe there's something to the low cut and pgr I was using to help fill it in quickly.


----------



## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

Awesome. Next season I plan to level and top dress, cut lower, AND use PGR, so maybe it will do much better.


----------



## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

I forgot I had this picture.

This is a sod area near one of my trees. I know it's an oak.



I think it's struggling due to the roots from the tree. There doesn't seem to be anything else wrong.


----------



## revitup (Sep 19, 2020)

A good size oak tree will soak up a large amount of water from an area. Need extra irrigation around it.


----------



## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

Good deal. I'll try that approach next season before I enlarge the bed around it.


----------



## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

I read the word on here a year or so ago on a similar topic -- allelopathic. Oaks secrete a chemical into the soil as a competitve / defensive mechanism. Beyond the water, stuff just won't grow very well having to compete with oak roots.

What I have found grows good near oak roots:

Briars
Mondo grass / lilyturf


----------

