# Washout Round 2 - Frustration



## dgrove12 (Jun 6, 2020)

Ok. I submit. I'm wasting quality seed because of this weather. Seeding on bare dirt isn't fun. Maybe next time I'll slit seed. This sucks. Im going to rake the peat flat and throw in my cards for this year. Dammit.

Just me whining. Carry on.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

So what happened?

Didn't you have some good germination by now? Did the germinated grass wash down as well?


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## dgrove12 (Jun 6, 2020)

San said:


> So what happened?
> 
> Didn't you have some good germination by now? Did the germinated grass wash down as well?


There's definitely some ok germination. I did my curb strips as a "test plot" with ss1100 kbg and the back yard with Prime Time tttf. I rolled the first time at seed down. After the first washout I just sprinkled down seed and peat… and it's gone now. The bummer is that it was a day or 2 from germinating when washout 2 happened. Just frustrating… all the time and effort wasted.

First pic is the fescue. Second is kbg.


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## joec-ct (Aug 6, 2021)

I'm close to throwing in the towel too, on my side yard. Wasting money on topsoil, peatmoss, seeds. Next year I'll try it again with blankets.


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## Lawnerman (Aug 9, 2021)

That doesnt look like a washout…
Rain wasnt that crazy this time around. Just light drizzle


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## Lawnerman (Aug 9, 2021)

joec-ct said:


> I'm close to throwing in the towel too, on my side yard. Wasting money on topsoil, peatmoss, seeds. Next year I'll try it again with blankets.


Agree… that slope needs an erosion blanket.
You may also want to re-route the downspout thats draining into that area.... Extend out further or run pipe all the way to the curb at least during the reno.


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## dgrove12 (Jun 6, 2020)

Lawnerman said:


> That doesnt look like a washout…
> Rain wasnt that crazy this time around. Just light drizzle


Those were pics prior to the washout. South of Harrisburg, PA got pounded. It was a short storm but a lot of wind and rain. The peat washed into "strips" or "piles" throughout both sections of the renovation. I just went out raked it, against my better judgement... so we'll see if any of the seed in the peat piles take root.

I whine and moan about the effort but I enjoy being in the yard. I will likely re-assess this Sunday and throw more seed and peat down. I'm a glutton for punishment. It does suck wasting money though. Over seeding is way easier than bare dirt, I'm finding.


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## Lawnerman (Aug 9, 2021)

oh ok. 
I think you can still throw seed down.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

I was surprised though with how much of my seed was still in the soil, even after getting pounded by Ida.

My front yard had more peat moss and seems to be ahead of my backyard by about 2 days, and though I thought it wasn't going to fill in, I'm now at 6 DAG and it's getting pretty dense, so I'm hoping the back will eventually catch up.

I've seeded 85/15 TTTF/KBG and even now that it's getting denser, the KBG is just starting to peek up.
So you could also have quite some seed left in the KBG area that might still come up.

And for reference, I didn't throw any new seed down, after any of the downpours so far (except for 3lbs on a patch that really looked empty). I figured I would save it until after I see what came up, as I can always just add more seed next year.

So I wouldn't give up yet, just stay the course and see how it fills in.

As for the slopes, I used peat moss and topped it with slope master on my steep slopes.
And it did such a great job that even after Ida, I barely had to do anything to those areas as the slope master kept most of it in place. And on those slopes the grass came in first and most dense of the entire yard.
So I definitely recommend Slope Master for harder to seed spots.


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## jackallis (Apr 15, 2019)

joec-ct said:


> I'm close to throwing in the towel too, on my side yard. Wasting money on topsoil, peatmoss, seeds. Next year I'll try it again with blankets.


so that tarp you put down did not work?


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## joec-ct (Aug 6, 2021)

@jackallis It did, but I didnt buy enough tarps to cover the entire side. I didnt want to put down tarps last night now that I have grass growing.


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## dgrove12 (Jun 6, 2020)

Next year I'll be using the slope master. I applied tenacity at seed down, so I guess weeds aren't that big of a deal. Thanks for all the response guys!


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## billa9b0ng (Sep 10, 2020)

I would say I am irritated about the same band of thunderstorms that you are. I put down some more seed and raked out the little mounds...we'll see what happens. Good luck


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## Jeff_MI84 (Sep 28, 2020)

@joec-ct the other day before I got 2/3"'of rain, I bought the green roll to cover my seed and used landscape staples to secure it to the dirt. This was on the side of my house and nothing washed away. I believe it was the Pennington brand.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

I have used seeding blankets on bare dirt slopes before and they work well. You have time yet to seed with TTTF. I would throw some seed down, rake it into the soil, and cover with a seed blanket.

I will say that this has not been a great fall for seeding. It seems that there is no light rain anymore. All I get is 2-3 inches in an hour and then nothing for 7 days. I've been lucky that I have the previous dead lawn to hold everything or it would be worse. I did add more seed to bare areas at 2 weeks after initial seed down and it helped a lot, but it has been a challenging reno this time.


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## dgrove12 (Jun 6, 2020)

One day later…

KBG




TTTF




Do these need more seed and peat? I've never grown kbg and I've read all the facts about being patient and it filling in. So my gut says leave the kbg alone but over seed the tttf, for the 3rd time.

What would you do?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would leave the KBG alone. But I would spend 30min or so and carefully pick up the rocks. I personally dont love the soil being below the sidewalk level.


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## dgrove12 (Jun 6, 2020)

g-man said:


> I would leave the KBG alone. But I would spend 30min or so and carefully pick up the rocks. I personally dont love the soil being below the sidewalk level.


Yeah, neither do I. I had screened topsoil delivered and had it perfectly level but some washed away, also exposing some of those rock. I assume once this fills in I could level it off. Thanks for the response.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

dgrove12 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > I would leave the KBG alone. But I would spend 30min or so and carefully pick up the rocks. I personally dont love the soil being below the sidewalk level.
> ...


Soil is always going to settle so you would need to add more until it settles to the height you want.


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## dgrove12 (Jun 6, 2020)

Aaaaaand another washout. This is getting old.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

Just think of it as free water for the part of your new grass that didn't wash away.


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## dgrove12 (Jun 6, 2020)

San said:


> Just think of it as free water for the part of your new grass that didn't wash away.


Ha, yeah. Trying to take it in stride. The TTTF in the back is doing quite well. There are just spots where I've tried to over seed several times now, only to be hit with storms each time. The KBG in the front is firmly in the pout phase. It's been an inch tall for 7 days now, no tillering yet. This Sunday will be 21 days after seed down, so I'm hoping I see more growth soon. Trying to be patient.


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## jimmythegreek (Aug 7, 2020)

Yup the northeast hates us Reno guys. I'm doing a full Reno for my cousin as a favor payback and I'm getting killed. Whole yard slopes and I've had 2 washouts already. He has irrigation I dont need rain at all. Like 7k sqft I've burned thru almost 80# of seed and still need more


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

As misery likes company: I held back on most of the reseeding, but I put down about 200# GCI Cool Blue seed and 30 bags of peat moss on 20k lawn. When Ida was approaching I loaded up my two steepest slopes with 6 bags of Slopemaster.
And after Ida I raked what was left back into place as much as possible and now I'm just keeping it wet.

The back has got quite some bare spots and the front isn't as dense as I would have liked.
But I just try to stay positive, it will give the KBG in my mix a chance to establish itself and not get pushed out by dense TTTF coming up. And I can always just overseed next year, which means I don't have to deal with all the bare dirt/reno things next year.


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## dgrove12 (Jun 6, 2020)

jimmythegreek said:


> Yup the northeast hates us Reno guys. I'm doing a full Reno for my cousin as a favor payback and I'm getting killed. Whole yard slopes and I've had 2 washouts already. He has irrigation I dont need rain at all. Like 7k sqft I've burned thru almost 80# of seed and still need more


That's just gross. I'm doing just shy of 1k (have to divide the yard up because of the dog) and it's still infuriating. I'd imagine you're fuming.


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## Slkching28 (Sep 5, 2021)

How do you guys re-level the ground after washout during reno?? I'm talking about after some of the seed already germinated, u can't really rake it or u will damage the seedlings.


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## jedross86 (Apr 27, 2021)

I had bad Ida washout, not just my seed, but newly applied topsoil. My whole property is on a pitch, so the idea was just to make things flat, no bumps, not level. Most of the bad areas required a lot of soil, and I just buried the grass since I was seeding anyway. Well, since there was nothing to hold that soil in place when the rain hit, it all ran off. I had a decent amount of germination in some areas and none in others. I decided to let the soil be to not disrupt/ruin the germination I did have. I guess I'll try to level things out over time, or whenever I decide to do a full reno. I don't really know how feasible it is to add an inch of soil/sand here and there without killing my grass but will start researching.

I feel the frustration. Spent a ton of money, ton of time, got a stress fracture in my foot, and had a not so fun episode of heat exhaustion trying to get everything in shape and get seed down at the right time. Saw Ida coming our way. Spent another half a day putting hay with tack everywhere. Didn't help much and any seed that hadn't germinated (and some that did) was all swept into the street. Re-seeded and peated and then had a decent amount of seed wash out again from a tstorm. Sucks, and there are times I think this was all a waste, but there will still be progress. I'll eventually get to where I want to be.


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## dgrove12 (Jun 6, 2020)

Slkching28 said:


> How do you guys re-level the ground after washout during reno?? I'm talking about after some of the seed already germinated, u can't really rake it or u will damage the seedlings.


I'm no pro but I raked mine. I probably did some damage to the kbg because it's still pouting and seems pretty delicate. But it's kbg, so I figure it'll self-repair... eventually. First time growing it, so I'm just going by what others have said. The TTTF in the back yard has held up fine to light raking > more peat > rinse > repeat. Definitely some bare spots where I have slopes. Should have used slope master or something. I still hold out hope that I can over seed and the rain will hold off for 10 days or so.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

I've been reducing watering and stopping earlier, but with the ongoing rain, I now have fungus killing the new grass.
Put down some Propiconazolen and hoping for the best...


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## hobbyaddict1 (Aug 26, 2021)

I did a front Reno (did not know it was a reno at the time  I used a product called EZ straw as a top layer. About 1 week later we had a terrible /terrific whatever you want to call it downpour. Until that rain we had 90 deg weather and sun, so I was watering 4 times daily. 
I was very fortunate despite the flooding i guess 90/95 % of my seed remained due to the straw. I added seed to bare spots and moved on.

The straw held things in place however once germination occurred my big concern was that the straw would prevent growth by smothering. I may have put on too heavy. I starting cutting the grass as soon as possible per recommendations. The mower has been doing a decent job getting most of the straw up allowing for the new grass to grow.(It does not decompose fast enough) I was thinking the covering was the solution, it did the job but brings on another set of challenges. I feel your frustrations... This forum has been very helpful.


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## dgrove12 (Jun 6, 2020)

Holding out hope that I can get this sucker to fill in this year. This is the TTTF mix in the back. KBG is still pouting.


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## Slkching28 (Sep 5, 2021)

@dgrove12 when you have washout, did they get collect somewhere?? I had a recent washout and the seed all collected in small area and they all germinate and it seem overcrowded. I don't think they would survive and curious if you guys rake them back into place after every washout?? 
It looks like this now and I think that's too many seedling and it's only 3" long and just mowed it down back to 2"


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## dgrove12 (Jun 6, 2020)

Slkching28 said:


> @dgrove12 when you have washout, did they get collect somewhere?? I had a recent washout and the seed all collected in small area and they all germinate and it seem overcrowded. I don't think they would survive and curious if you guys rake them back into place after every washout??
> It looks like this now and I think that's too many seedling and it's only 3" long and just mowed it down back to 2"


I have a couple spots that are crowded like that but I raked as best as I could every time I washed out. I figured if I did damage and the seed didn't take, I would just over seed. In fact, I had three rounds of seed > washout > rake > over seed. I probably used too much seed but this section of my yard has always been thin and full of weeds. A super thick turf, while not optimal, would be a good problem to have. Here are pics from today. Can't wait for it to darken up. Excited for next year to tackle the full Reno in the front.


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## NotTheGreenGiant (May 30, 2021)

This September has been a total troll job from Mother Nature. I also have a pretty sloped property, and have seen heavy downpours every week this month! Certain areas I have put down new seeds 4 times already. But they are coming in.. slowly... a bit at a time. I will have to go for erosion blankets next time.


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## dgrove12 (Jun 6, 2020)

I think the pout is over!! KBG tillering like mad in my curb strips. Needs a ways to go to catch up to the TTTF. Winner of the 2 will be what goes down in next year's full reno.


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## jackallis (Apr 15, 2019)

Slkching28 said:


> @dgrove12 when you have washout, did they get collect somewhere?? I had a recent washout and the seed all collected in small area and they all germinate and it seem overcrowded. I don't think they would survive and curious if you guys rake them back into place after every washout??
> It looks like this now and I think that's too many seedling and it's only 3" long and just mowed it down back to 2"


is that fungus i am looking at on the bottom right?


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