# Calling all Poa experts



## Txmx583 (Jun 8, 2017)

I'm on the ropes boys..... I've been battling a bad Poa Annua infestation for years now and it always seems to come back.. I apply Prodiamine in fall and spring and each spring it's back. Not sure if my timing is off or what the deal is, but I want to kill this crap. I can't seem to find anything that will kill it other than Negate. I don't want to waist the negate (you have to mix the whole bottle and it only lasts a month. One bottle makes 128 ounces and 12oz will trat my whole yard,)

Is there anything else out there that you all have had success with that will kill this crap once and for all? BTW - I plan on doing 4 apps of prodiamine this year to ensure a good pre emerg haha.


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

Add Simazine to your application in late fall and early spring. I have had tremendous success. Including my neighbors we treat about 6 acres of bermuda and we have no Poa. You can kill it with Glysophate but with the warm weather around DFW this year your bermuda is probably showing some green which you would not want to spray glysophate on.

https://www.solutionsstores.com/simazine-4l


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## Txmx583 (Jun 8, 2017)

cldrunner said:


> Add Simazine to your application in late fall and early spring. I have had tremendous success. Including my neighbors we treat about 6 acres of bermuda and we have no Poa. You can kill it with Glysophate but with the warm weather around DFW this year your bermuda is probably showing some green which you would not want to spray glysophate on.
> 
> https://www.solutionsstores.com/simazine-4l


Thanks for the info! I'll look into that product!


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## elm34 (May 10, 2017)

Txmx583 said:


> I'm on the ropes boys..... I've been battling a bad Poa Annua infestation for years now and it always seems to come back.. I apply Prodiamine in fall and spring and each spring it's back. Not sure if my timing is off or what the deal is, but I want to kill this crap. I can't seem to find anything that will kill it other than Negate. I don't want to waist the negate (you have to mix the whole bottle and it only lasts a month. One bottle makes 128 ounces and 12oz will trat my whole yard,)
> 
> NEGATE should help with eliminating Poa.
> 
> https://www.domyown.com


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## elm34 (May 10, 2017)

Negate should work on Poa.

https://www.domyown.com/negate-37wg-p-16655.html


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

Not an expert by any means but warm season lawns have options. Glyphosate during dormancy, to start, and chemicals such as Revolver (foramsulfuron) or even Monument (trifloxysulfuron) as the selective herbicides. Pricey, for sure, but there are options.


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## McDiddles (Feb 24, 2020)

Poa has known biotypes that are resistance to Prodiamine, along with several other herbicide groups. You might have to do some digging to find out what new research has been done in your area to determine your best action plan going forward. We have lost the use of nearly all pre-emergent herbicide here because of lack of rotation. See the link. Prodiamine and Simiazine haven't worked here in 6-7 years. The only pre that works anymore is Indaziflam (Specticle). And that is not affordable to purchase retail. They've even found resistance in glyphosate.

As @corneliani said, the ALS inhibitors will give you the best post control, but they are $$$$. That's, Foramsulfuron (Revoler), trifloxysulfuron (Monument), Flazasulfuron (Katana).

Also, you might want to be sure it's not Poa trivialis. That being the perennial form of poa that is not as common. The seed head is a lot darker on it, as compared to annua which is white.

https://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=23702


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## Txmx583 (Jun 8, 2017)

McDiddles said:


> Poa has known biotypes that are resistance to Prodiamine, along with several other herbicide groups. You might have to do some digging to find out what new research has been done in your area to determine your best action plan going forward. We have lost the use of nearly all pre-emergent herbicide here because of lack of rotation. See the link. Prodiamine and Simiazine haven't worked here in 6-7 years. The only pre that works anymore is Indaziflam (Specticle). And that is not affordable to purchase retail. They've even found resistance in glyphosate.
> 
> As @corneliani said, the ALS inhibitors will give you the best post control, but they are $$$$. That's, Foramsulfuron (Revoler), trifloxysulfuron (Monument), Flazasulfuron (Katana).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. These seed heads are white, and I'm 99% sure it's annua. I may just buy the negate and throw out what I don't use. It's not too pricy at $55 a bottle, I just hate to waist what I don't use since it only lasts 1 month after being mixed and you have to mix the whole bottle to make the concentrate.


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## elm34 (May 10, 2017)

The 1.5 oz cover 1 acre. Only mix what you need and add it to your arsenal.


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## Mister Bill (Apr 12, 2019)

elm34 said:


> The 1.5 oz cover 1 acre. Only mix what you need and add it to your arsenal.


If I am understanding you correctly, Negate is labeled to be mixed all at once due to different sized prills in the mixture. Partial mixes are not recommended.


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## thesouthernreelmower (Aug 28, 2018)

I think certainty is labeled for young poa? But obviously it's way easier to prevent it to begin with. Spectacle is your best best.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Depending on one MOA for weed control does not always end well. I need 4 pre applications per year for other grassy weeds. Specticle in Fall and winter. Split application at 4 oz per acre each application. Prodiamine WDG at 1 lb per acre Spring and Summer split application.


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## Groundskeeper Willie (Feb 22, 2019)

I don't see where in the label you're getting the "mix all the product up at once" interpretation.

I wouldn't worry about the different sized prills. The different sized prills could be different chemical constituents for all I know, but the stuff seems to work quite well when you don't mix it all at once and only use what you need for a single application, even for small lawns.


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## Symbiont01 (Nov 20, 2018)

+1 on that Simazine. Absolutely amazing stuff when combined with prodiamine. For post emergent, you can try image kills nutsedge for a fairly cheap kill, but your mileage may vary and you may need multiple apps. Remember that old adage: one year of seeds equals seven years of weeds, so be sure you're not allowing any weeds to go to seed. As others have said, other post emergent choices are things like Certainty (Sulfosulfuron), Revolver, Monument. You can also try atrazine if you Bermuda is dormant, but it may get dinged up a bit if its not.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

If you all want to learn more, go check out UT Knoxville's Poa Day broadcasts where they go through a variety of chemical combos, and their results, on preventing poa.

My approach is to have multiple modes of action to reduce the chance of building a resistant population.

Any combo that involves picking one product from categories A, B, and C. 
A. Prodiamine, Indaziflam, Oxadiazon
B. Simazine, Metribuzin
C. Monument, Revolver, Negate, Katana, or dormant application of glyphosate

Such as:
1. Prodiamine, Simazine, Monument (one of the longest soil residual sulfonylurea herbicides for poa)
2. Produamine, Simazine, Revolver, Katana, Rimsulfuron; only revolver is labeled for residential broadcast application
3. Prodiamine, Simazine, Negate (MSM and Rimsulfuron)
4. Indaziflam, Simazine, Monument
5. Indaziflam, Simazine, Revolver
6. Indafiflam, Simazine, Negate
7. Oxadiazon, Simazine, Monument
8. Oxadzon, Metribution, Negate
9. Prodiamine, Simazine, Glyphosate (dormant app)
and so on.


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## Bmossin (May 31, 2018)

Groundskeeper Willie said:


> I don't see where in the label you're getting the "mix all the product up at once" interpretation.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about the different sized prills. The different sized prills could be different chemical constituents for all I know, but the stuff seems to work quite well when you don't mix it all at once and only use what you need for a single application, even for small lawns.


On the domyown questions field I think they have it listed at 3oz of mixed per 1000.

MIXING INSTRUCTIONS
Quali-Pro® NEGATE 37WG is a physical blend of two SU herbicides, Rimsulfuron and Metsulfuron-Methyl, and as
such, small individual tank mixes are not possible. To do hand can or backpack applications, the applicator must
first make a one-acre mixture, mixing the entire bottle of 1.5 ounces of Quali-Pro® NEGATE 37WG (0.019 lbs.
Metsulfuron-methyl and 0.015 lbs. Rimsulfuron) in enough water to cover one acre. Small individual 1000 ft2
applications can be done by filling from the nurse tank 1-acre pre-mix.


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## McDiddles (Feb 24, 2020)

Movingshrub said:


> If you all want to learn more, go check out UT Knoxville's Poa Day broadcasts where they go through a variety of chemical combos, and their results, on preventing poa.
> 
> My approach is to have multiple modes of action to reduce the chance of building a resistant population.
> 
> ...


This http://www.tennesseeturfgrassweeds.org/Pages/PoaDay.aspx is awesome! Thanks for the info. I had no idea this was going on.


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## Mister Bill (Apr 12, 2019)

Groundskeeper Willie said:


> I don't see where in the label you're getting the "mix all the product up at once" interpretation.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about the different sized prills. The different sized prills could be different chemical constituents for all I know, but the stuff seems to work quite well when you don't mix it all at once and only use what you need for a single application, even for small lawns.


Page 8 under mixing instructions. I came across this information last year when I was researching POA herbicides, and the consensus was to not split the bottle. Good to know you have split the Negate with good success.

https://www.domyown.com/msds/Specimen-Negate-53883-307_08072018.pdf

Ooops, I now see bmossin beat me to it. :thumbup:


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## McDiddles (Feb 24, 2020)

Bmossin said:


> Groundskeeper Willie said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see where in the label you're getting the "mix all the product up at once" interpretation.
> ...


This is correct. Looks like a direct quote from the label. Which is a bit confusing because they recommend to apply at least 20-80 gal. per acre, or 25-35 psi. A backpack falls well within that psi range, but def not in that gal. per acre. Do manufacturers try and confuse folks, or it just me?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

McDiddles said:


> ...they recommend to apply at least 20-80 gal. per acre, or 25-35 psi. A backpack falls well within that psi range, but def not in that gal. per acre. Do manufacturers try and confuse folks, or it just me?


There are 43,560 ft2 in an acre, so you just divide the gallons per acre by 43.56 to get it into gallons per thousand square feet. That's a good conversion factor to commit to memory since many tables use gallons per acre.

So 20-80 gallons per acre is like 0.46-1.84 gallons per thousand. Any backpack sprayer should be able to get someone within that range.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@McDiddles Another good source is to go find publications from Dr. Patrick McCullough at UGA.

https://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=B1463&title=Annual%20Bluegrass%20Control%20Programs%20for%20Georgia%20Lawns
https://secure.caes.uga.edu/extension/publications/files/pdf/B%201463_2.PDF

https://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=B1394


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## daniel3507 (Jul 31, 2018)

What mix rate is effective with Simazine when used with Prodiamine? Something you can apply all at once?


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## McDiddles (Feb 24, 2020)

Ware said:


> McDiddles said:
> 
> 
> > ...they recommend to apply at least 20-80 gal. per acre, or 25-35 psi. A backpack falls well within that psi range, but def not in that gal. per acre. Do manufacturers try and confuse folks, or it just me?
> ...


You're right. Flub on that basic math. Without calibration I always assume a gallon per 1ksqft with a backpack, or handcan. 
As @Bmossin said their still giving this instruction.

"To do hand can or backpack applications, the applicator must
first make a one-acre mixture, mixing the entire bottle of 1.5 ounces of Quali-Pro® NEGATE 37WG (0.019 lbs.
Metsulfuron-methyl and 0.015 lbs. Rimsulfuron) in enough water to cover one acre. Small individual 1000 ft2
applications can be done by filling from the nurse tank 1-acre pre-mix."


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## McDiddles (Feb 24, 2020)

Movingshrub said:


> @McDiddles Another good source is to go find publications from Dr. Patrick McCullough at UGA.
> 
> https://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=B1463&title=Annual%20Bluegrass%20Control%20Programs%20for%20Georgia%20Lawns
> https://secure.caes.uga.edu/extension/publications/files/pdf/B%201463_2.PDF
> ...


Thanks. more good info. I am familiar with UGA turf team.


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## Txmx583 (Jun 8, 2017)

Thanks for all the info team!! It all certainly helps!! I ordered some Certainty and will see how that does. Stay tuned.


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## jasonbraswell (Aug 18, 2019)

Negate controls broadleaf weeds too. I am not sure anything extra is required in the mix except the pre M


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

Specticle flo should help end your dealings with future poa. Try monument for now though.


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## Stro3579 (Jun 30, 2017)

McDiddles said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> > McDiddles said:
> ...


If I just wanted to mix enough for 8k sq ft. How do I figure that out?


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Stro3579 said:


> McDiddles said:
> 
> 
> > Ware said:
> ...


You would mix up the entire bottle into a concentrate, which is enough to treat 43,570 sq ft. Then use just the portion of that concentrate you need. Roughly 18.4% of the total by volume.

If you mixed the bottle up in 1 gallon of water, you'd use 23.5 fl ozs on your 8000 sq ft.


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## Stro3579 (Jun 30, 2017)

MasterMech said:


> Stro3579 said:
> 
> 
> > McDiddles said:
> ...


I found a blanket calculator that said 1 gram per 1 gallon (1000 sq ft).


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## Shizzlestix66 (Aug 30, 2020)

I would not take a chance with the 1 gram per gallon. Different prill sizes in the bottle. But it's your lawn not mine. I wouldn't chance it. It needs to be mixed in 1 gallon then split after all ingredients mix on a gallon.


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