# Spoon feeding n



## Bkell101

Hi guys,

I've read about people "spoon feeding" their lawn N through summer or during and throughout overseed process.

What's considered spoon feeding rate of N?
How often?
What product?

If I have an organic fish fertilizer 2-1-1 in liquid form would that work?


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## jessehurlburt

Hey @Bkell101

Spoon feeding refers to frequent light doses of Nitrogen. Most do weekly apps at .25#N/k. You'd want to use a fast release nitrogren source like Urea. I'd wait for cooler temps and more rain before starting this.


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## g-man

The concept is similar to feeding a baby/child with a small stomach. You give is a little very often. I like the response of a constant small feeding. You get a consistent rate of grow instead of surges from a once a month large quantity. Of course the negative is the time to do weekly applications.


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## pennstater2005

Another thought is available irrigation. I don't have it and need to plan accordingly with each application. Sometimes it isn't weekly but usually close.


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## Bkell101

g-man said:


> The concept is similar to feeding a baby/child with a small stomach. You give is a little very often. I like the response of a constant small feeding. You get a consistent rate of grow instead of surges from a once a month large quantity. Of course the negative is the time to do weekly applications.


As opposed to multiple small doses of quick release N , could you use one larger dose of a slow release N? Or is that harder to control?

(Works in medicine that's why I ask 😀)


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## g-man

In medicine, the stomach ph is "known", and the coating thickness of the extended release, so the absorption rate is fairly controlled. In a lawn, the soil type, moisture, temperature, product coatings will all affect the release response. Are there products that archive a good steady release, yes, but it is at a higher price.


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## Bkell101

g-man said:


> In medicine, the stomach ph is "known", and the coating thickness of the extended release, so the absorption rate is fairly controlled. In a lawn, the soil type, moisture, temperature, product coatings will all affect the release response. Are there products that archive a good steady release, yes, but it is at a higher price.


Makes total sense, figured there were a bunch of uncontrollable variables.

Sorry for the million questions, just feel like I'm learning so much on here. I think this is going to be my new hobby. Very addicting to learn about. Fascinating how much goes into it. Can't wait till I'm at a point where I can take over my own lawn plan.


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## Rucraz2

g-man said:


> In medicine, the stomach ph is "known", and the coating thickness of the extended release, so the absorption rate is fairly controlled. In a lawn, the soil type, moisture, temperature, product coatings will all affect the release response. Are there products that archive a good steady release, yes, but it is at a higher price.


Agree, species and age will also affect it. As well as time of year. Late fall before first frost is always the best time to spoon. Do it once with kbg and you will realize you never need to overseed again.


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## fusebox7

Counterpoint to N in summer...Not sure how fertilizer affects different cool season grasses but for KBG: in summer, nitrogen will basically redirect rhizome shoots from turning up (the spreading effect) and refocus the plant's energy on producing leafy shoots on already existing vegetation. Spring/fall for KBG = horizontal (rhizome) growth and root development; Summer = vertical/erect growth (rhizomes turning upward to break the surface and form new plants and existing leafy shoots being more erect). Case in point: nitrogen in spring and (mostly) fall. Let it do its thing in summer.

Again, can't speak for PRG, fine or TTTF or bentgrasses but this is what I've exhaustively read and personally seen with my KBG which is the physiological reasons for nitrogen to not be applied in the summer. There's millions of new plants making appearances in my bare spots.


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## ForsheeMS

My TTTF lawn is about 1/2 acre with no irrigation so this really limits my spoon feeding to just before a good rain. I've actually been known to drop urea in the rain. Sometimes it's once a week and other times it's every two to three weeks. With TTTF you don't get the benefit of spreading like you would with KBG but spoon feeding helps the new seedlings develop much quicker after a fall overseed to better prepare them for the winter ahead. IMO it also makes the established grass thicker and healthier heading into winter.

My nitrogen routine is basically as many light nitrogen apps (1/4 to 1/2lbs per k) I can squeeze in from early October until Mid November. Then nothing until top growth stops and it gets a winterizer app of 1lbs per k sometime late December to early January.

I rarely ever do a spring app and if I do it's no later than March. Here in central NC the summertime weather is ideal for fungus, namely brown patch, and with that you don't want any nitrogen going down.


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## Ridgerunner

@fusebox7 Great post and most excellent topic.
I have a couple of bookmarks on the topic that you and other KBGers might find useful:
http://sturf.lib.msu.edu/article/2000aug12.pdf
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1086&context=agronomyfacpub
This one needs to have the pdf link opened:
https://kb.osu.edu/handle/1811/63002
More in depth research can be had by googling the topics in the "LITERATURE CITED" section at the end of the above article/study links.

Do you have any links to more definitive studies/articles regarding the conditions influencing rhizome termination and tillering? Thanks.


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## g-man

Every time I start reading Literature Cited I end up reading for 2-3hrs.


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## fusebox7

@Ridgerunner 
Thanks - I always enjoy reading and then testing theories and studies in my own situations.
One article I always remember is the Texas A&M one (which is strange because they can't grow KBG there  ):
https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/archives/parsons/turf/publications/Bluegrass.html
https://plantscience.psu.edu/research/centers/turf/extension/factsheets/cool-season
http://forages.oregonstate.edu/regrowth/how-does-grass-grow


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## Ridgerunner

g-man said:


> Every time I start reading Literature Cited I end up reading for 2-3hrs.


This complaint is coming from the guy who can cite an article/research showing the relationship between Olsen and M3 testing? :lol: 
Seriously g-man, try to take the time to at least skim the articles I cited. I'd like to hear your take. I've always treated rhizome spreading the same as rooting, apparently rhizome growth is more akin to top-growth and responds to fertilization in much the same way, if I'm not misreading it.


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## jessehurlburt

Hey Guys, if I spray a light dose of urea .25lb/k do I need to water that in, or does that only apply when applying it granularly?


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## ForsheeMS

jessehurlburt said:


> Hey Guys, if I spray a light dose of urea .25lb/k do I need to water that in, or does that only apply when applying it granularly?


First, let me say I've never tried a foliar app like that but I would definitely water that in. Otherwise I think you would risk burn even in cooler temps.


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## jessehurlburt

ForsheeMS said:


> jessehurlburt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Guys, if I spray a light dose of urea .25lb/k do I need to water that in, or does that only apply when applying it granularly?
> 
> 
> 
> First, let me say I've never tried a foliar app like that but I would definitely water that in. Otherwise I think you would risk burn even in cooler temps.
Click to expand...

Thanks ForsheeMS. I saw another member mention that using the Scotts whiz is really the best practice for Urea, so I scrapped my plan and grabbed one of those this morning (along with a dial-and-spray for my humic).


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## ForsheeMS

jessehurlburt said:


> Thanks ForsheeMS. I saw another member mention that using the Scotts whiz is really the best practice for Urea, so I scrapped my plan and grabbed one of those this morning (along with a dial-and-spray for my humic).


The only nitrogen I've ever sprayed is a 15-0-0 with 6% iron. It's sprayed at 4 ounces per 1k which equals out to about 0.6 ounces of nitrogen per 1k and I don't even use that when temps are above 80 degrees. If you're using granular urea it's definitely going to be much easier to use a spreader and then water it in.


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## fusebox7

jessehurlburt said:


> Hey Guys, if I spray a light dose of urea .25lb/k do I need to water that in, or does that only apply when applying it granularly?


The point of liquid fertilizer is typically as a foliar app so you need to give the plants sufficient time to absorb it before washing it off. The big lawn care companies typically spray liquid fertilizer because it's more economical - I imagine this doesn't get watered in unless it rains of course. I plan to switch to a foliar feeding program next year due to my runoff issues (not a level area in my entire yard).

So, all in all, I don't (personally) think a lighter dose would warrant watering in (after foliar absorption period) but I don't have any persona experience with it yet (just going by the basic scientific purpose).


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## Turfguy93

jessehurlburt said:


> Hey Guys, if I spray a light dose of urea .25lb/k do I need to water that in, or does that only apply when applying it granularly?


Turf can only take up so much N foliarly, water it in after 4 hours and you'll be good. Best of both worlds. But grass can easily take up 1/10 to 1/8 a pound nitrogen from a foliar feed. You won't burn anything with urea with the light of dose


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## iFisch3224

Bkell101 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've read about people "spoon feeding" their lawn N through summer or during and throughout overseed process.
> 
> What's considered spoon feeding rate of N?
> How often?
> What product?
> 
> If I have an organic fish fertilizer 2-1-1 in liquid form would that work?


I may not qulify as "spoon feeding" but I am feeding low rates/doses of Feature 6-0-0 w/ 10% Iron about every 3 weeks or so. .25oz to .5oz during the summer, and .5oz to .75oz any other time. Recommended dose is 1oz-2oz/gal/1k


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## Pascal-lawn

Turfguy93 said:


> Turf can only take up so much N foliarly, water it in after 4 hours and you'll be good.


So is the best cultural practice for spoon feeding N on cool season grass to spray with a "mist" nozzle (ie: teejet xr) late in the evening once a week and time your irrigation the next morning to be as efficient as possible with  nutrient intake ?


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