# vNephologist's Transition Zone KBG Journal



## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

Well, I pestered Barenbrug enough that they finally relented and sent me a few pounds of Barserati. It came with the condition that I seed it as a mono and track it's progress. Easy enough.  Unfortunately, my waivering on whether I'd have enough time this Fall for a reno and my first monostand has left me a bit behind. Luckily, we usually have a few more warm days down this way vs the folks in true KBG country. I finished the glyphosate treatment this AM, so no going back. I still need to decide how much leveling I want to do. I need to study up on the sand treatments over the next few days. Not sure if it's a good idea at reno time. I'll try to post a full plan soon, but I know I'll seed ASAP along with M-Binder, Scott's Starter w/Meso, Heritage, and I'm also going to try Gravity PGS. It's intrigued me for a long time to see if it'll help with pout. Stay tuned. This should be fun!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

First gly today?


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

g-man said:


> First gly today?


The strip at the road is good and dead from about a week ago. That was all i knew for sure I was going to attempt at the time. Got most of the rest yesterday and finished it up today. The good news is that I have little if any weed pressure so hoping it may be one and done? Switched up the deep watering to daily short duration in all zones. Not seeing anything popping up out there yet. @Pete1313 has inspired me to take some 2nd floor aerials to keep track.





Thoughts?


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

I can't wait to follow along! :thumbup:


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

Florence's rain and tornados have finally exited so worked between meetings and through the last of the rain showers yesterday to prep the seed bed and got the first seed down today. I decided to pick up a little Earthquake tiller & dethatcher atachment and it was a life saver. I think it would've been perfect if we hadn't gotten so much rain. This made it a bit more difficult because some old root material came up from time to time and I had to level back out. Hopefully it won't settle too poorly.

I ended up deciding to install some natural stone pavers, a Nutall Oak, and some other shrubs in the corner of the strip that gets the most sun and dog urine. Hoping this will be a honeypot of sorts. Going to get some help with this in a few weeks, so it's just mulch now. This left about 1/3 of the strip for grass. I decided to seed it in 4th Millennium TTTF for an interesting experiment. This will be my first seeding without peat and I'm super nervous, but we'll see how it goes. I put down seed and M-Binder by hand, followed up with Scott's Starter w/Meso and azoxystrobin from the spreader, and finally mefenoxam and Gravity PGS from the sprayer.

Tested irrigation timing in heat of day and looks like 8 min every hour will be good.

More to come...


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@vnephologist I'm interested in the Gravity PGS results! Also, I'm using 4th Millenium (in a mix) and things came up fast and are looking great.

This will be my first season being serious with fungicides as last year I found several areas with disease a little too late. Is the azoxy and mefenoxam as a preventative right now because of temps and upcoming watering schedule?


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

drenglish said:


> This will be my first season being serious with fungicides as last year I found several areas with disease a little too late. Is the azoxy and mefenoxam as a preventative right now because of temps and upcoming watering schedule?


You hit the nail on the head. I also have a good deal of morning shade as well. I did a bit of research and actually experimented with fungicides in my pots last year with really good results. In fact, the non-treated pots were faring so poorly in comparison that I stopped my experiment early and treated them as well. In research, you'll find that most seed coatings include metalaxyl as the pythium strains are the worst at causing damping off. Metalaxyl is prohibitively expensive, so I used mefenoxam instead.


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## Powhatan (Dec 15, 2017)

vnephologist said:


> drenglish said:
> 
> 
> > This will be my first season being serious with fungicides as last year I found several areas with disease a little too late. Is the azoxy and mefenoxam as a preventative right now because of temps and upcoming watering schedule?
> ...


@vnephologist very interesting to use the fungicides at seed down, I hadn't considered that. Last fall when I seeded with TTTF I had a problem with melting out; the low angle sun combined with the surrounding tall trees kept the ground damp for a longer period of time. I recently overseeded with KY-31 so probably a good idea to put a fungicide down. Thanks


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@vnephologist that's good to know about your experience with using fungicides early on in a reno/year pots. What product are you using for the mefenoxam? I have propiconazole at my disposal, and am looking to find some granular azoxystrobin from Lowe's or HD to have on hand. Looking for a good third to add to a rotation, and maybe a sprayable.

What has your experience been with the PGS and do you plan on transitioning to PGR after using it for establishment? All of this new lawn tech (new to me) has me psyched about this season and next


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

drenglish said:


> @vnephologist that's good to know about your experience with using fungicides early on in a reno/year pots. What product are you using for the mefenoxam? I have propiconazole at my disposal, and am looking to find some granular azoxystrobin from Lowe's or HD to have on hand. Looking for a good third to add to a rotation, and maybe a sprayable.
> 
> What has your experience been with the PGS and do you plan on transitioning to PGR after using it for establishment? All of this new lawn tech (new to me) has me psyched about this season and next


I use this... https://www.domyown.com/mefenoxam-aq-fungicide-p-16650.html

As it's only applicable to pythium diseases, it's probably not the best to add to a regular rotation. A bit controversial due to labeling, but I use chlorothalonil alongside azoxy and propiconazole in my rotation. With the KBG mono, I'm super nervous about summer patch next year so I need to do some research and make changes accordingly.

Regarding the PGS, this is my first use. I planted some TTTF coated with PGS last Fall and it shot up like a rocket. So fast in fact, it folded over on itself before I returned from a trip and quite a bit died. Given it was TTTF though, could've not been PGS related at all. I want to plant a few test pots with and without this weekend so we'll know for sure.

I'll definitely start PGR back up ASAP. I think it's a must with a strong nitrogen spoon feeding Fall program. I was aggressive with the N last Fall and even my new plots did well. Interestingly, the literature shows the use of PGS and PGR simultaneously, so I may try that if I feel adventurous.


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## STL (Jul 14, 2018)

vnephologist said:


> As it's only applicable to pythium diseases, it's probably not the best to add to a regular rotation. A bit controversial due to labeling, but I use chlorothalonil alongside azoxy and propiconazole in my rotation. With the KBG mono, I'm super nervous about summer patch next year so I need to do some research and make changes accordingly.


While also not currently labeled for turf, manzecob is another contact fungicide that also offers some control of pythium. For summer patch, I recommend research out of Rutgers. They basically recommend an app to the root zone when soil temps reach 65 for a few consecutive days. The same research indicates that chlorothalonil actually makes summer patch worse, so you may want to limit that to separate foiliar-only apps if you continue to use it.



drenglish said:


> I have propiconazole at my disposal, and am looking to find some granular azoxystrobin from Lowe's or HD to have on hand. Looking for a good third to add to a rotation, and maybe a sprayable.


If it's in your budget, I recommend a sprayable azoxystrobin so you can water it in to the root zone more efficiently and maybe look at penthiopyrad as your third. Other than the QOIs and DMIs, it's one of the few that provide decent control of summer patch and excellent control of other diseases too, like brown patch. Velista is labeled for turf and there's a generic garden version, Fontelis, as well.


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

Was able to get 5.25lbs (3.18lbs/M) of Barserati down on Thursday (9/20). Used the same recipe as with the TTTF plot plus mycorrhizae and soil moist seed coat. Decent amount of rain in the forecast over the next few days and out of town until Thursday, so a bit worried about what I'll come back to. Should definitely have TTTF up by then. Hopefully no washouts or tree/leaf debris.


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

Been super busy with baby, but have managed to mostly keep the leaves, acorns, and squirrels from making too much of a mess of the reno and things are looking good for this stage. The Barserati is very light and neon looking so far. Looking forward to some darkening as it matures. Fe and PGR should help too. I do have some Poa Triv in my same problem area from last Fall. Other than that, no other weed or fungal pressure. I sprayed ~0.2 lb N/M of AS and 3 oz Iron Glucoheptonate (5%) on 10/30 and watered in. I've got the Rachio on auto-pilot with 2" root depth setting at this point.

I need to grab a pic or two this weekend after the rain passes, but here are some earlier progress pics...

09/30 - 8 days post seed down - note the faster progress and darker color of the 4th Millennium TTTF out by the road along with mulch covering prep for new landscaped area since dogs kept urinating on my grass in this area:





10/18 - 28 days - see grass in top right and new landscaping:


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

Cleaned leaves off today, but didn't have time for an AS app. Hopefully can get in tomorrow. Did grab some shots. Looks like more poa triv is up and sadly it may be darker than my KBG. Interestingly some KBG has matured faster than others and those are the darker spots in the pics. So hopefully it'll darken up a bit as the rest matures. I need to look closer, but I think the more mature spots are in areas I added topsoil last year. Not quite sure why this would be except that maybe it's holding nutrients better?





Here's the 4th Millennium plot:


And a shot for color comparison sake. The 4th Millennium is putting the Barserati to shame in that dept right now. It is interesting to see the difference in growth habit. The KBG is almost all out of pout and I think will continue to respond the the N apps for a couple more months. From my experience last year, I think the TTTF is probably done. I found it didn't really explode until the following Spring last year.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would spray some iron to the light areas.


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

g-man said:


> I would spray some iron to the light areas.


Yeah, for sure. I sprayed Iron Glucoheptonate with my AS the week before last but picked up some Feature 6-0-0 over the summer that I've never used. I need to look up app rates and try to switch. I really wish I was seeing some more growth and would add some PGR too. Just scared to do that with the look of some of the blades. Barserati looks to be a slow starter for sure. Didn't help that I got a late start too, I guess.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

1-2oz of FEature/M with NIS and 1oz of AS. I spray it in 1gallon of water/M.


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

Was able to spray ~0.2 lb N/M of AS and 2 oz/M of Feature 6-0-0 about an hour before the rain set in today at lunch. Wow the Feature is scary looking when mixing up.


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

A few quick updates:

Dropped ~1 lb N/M of Scott's Max (~18% AS & Urea fast release, ~9% Methyleneurea slow release, 5% Fe) on 1/14/19 as most of lawn had a "yellowed" look, but areas receiving "urea via dog" looked great. Worked well to bring a more healthy look back.

Sprayed 0.08 oz/M of Tenacity, 0.29 oz/M Prodiamine, ~0.2 lb N/M of AS and 2 oz/M of Feature 6-0-0 on 3/23/19.

~7 days of temps >65F, so dropped ~2.5 lbs/M granular Azoxy on 4/14/19.



Also noticed some grubs under a few strips of HGT sod I had installed in the back yard, so dropped Trichlorfon (Bayer Advanced) at bag rate.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@vnephologist 0.8 oz/M of Tenacity?? Photos or it didn't happen!


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

drenglish said:


> @vnephologist 0.8 oz/M of Tenacity?? Photos or it didn't happen!


Haha, you knew it was a typo. ;-) Corrected to 0.08.


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## OnTheOxbow (Jan 27, 2019)

@vnephologist I'm following your renovation and rooting for your success. I'm anxious to see how KBG does in this area. I'm also curious where you sourced your seed? Sounds like you ordered it, but i'm hoping maybe you sourced it locally? I live about an hour south of you and i'm always looking for a quality place to buy lawn care products. If i'm in the Richmond area, occasionally i'll shop at Site One. That's the only place I know that carries some of the specialty products. I try and keep my money local when I can. Have you got any good recommendations?


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@vnephologist I did, BUT I went back and checked the label to be sure. I got some real bleaching on my KBG with what I thought was a low rate 2 oz/A...I need to follow up with some grassy weeds but am a little nervous about the bleaching again. Maybe instead of a swath across the top just a focused spot spray this time...


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

OnTheOxbow said:


> @vnephologist I'm following your renovation and rooting for your success. I'm anxious to see how KBG does in this area. I'm also curious where you sourced your seed? Sounds like you ordered it, but i'm hoping maybe you sourced it locally? I live about an hour south of you and i'm always looking for a quality place to buy lawn care products. If i'm in the Richmond area, occasionally i'll shop at Site One. That's the only place I know that carries some of the specialty products. I try and keep my money local when I can. Have you got any good recommendations?


Funny enough, I'm originally from Blackstone and have family and friends in Lunenburg. I do order all of my seed. If you're really picky that's the only way, unfortunately. Here in Richmond, Pleasants usually sells a decent TTTF blend by the name of Southern Belle, but that's about it. I do get some stuff locally from the commercial wing of My Turf and Garden, but honestly, domyown.com has better selection and prices on chems.


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## OnTheOxbow (Jan 27, 2019)

@vnephologist It's crazy, for south side Virginia to be so tiny, everywhere I go i'm always running into people from here. I'm sure we know some of the same folks then. Small world! Yeah, I shop online for all my chemicals. I use those same websites. I was just hoping you had a top secret mom and pop shop in Richmond that has a great selection and affordable prices. Oh well, never hurts to ask.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@vnephologist how is this looking? Any new reno this year?


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

g-man said:


> @vnephologist how is this looking? Any new reno this year?


Haha, you know I can't resist planting something when the temps start to fall. 

Long story short, I had initially been very disappointed with the Barserati mono as summer got really hot. It had turned a really pale green and almost started to wither. My past experience had me avoiding N apps after early Spring to avoid disease. It turns out that was actually my issue. I guess KBG, or at least the Barserati really needs the input. A few weeks ago, temps moderated a bit and we finally got some rainfall, so I dropped some Scott's Max (~18% AS & Urea fast release, ~9% Methylene Urea slow release, 5% Fe) and it came to life more beautifully than ever! I'll grab a pic in a bit to post.

To answer your reno question... Not a full, but I am going to seed a bit more Barserati in the biggest bald spots and do some leveling (contractor drove a lift across the yard and created some 3" deep tracks!!). I'm gonna try really hard not to add another cultivar to the 4th Millennium plot out at the street as well, but will overseed a little given its TTTF. I'm not sure I posted about it, but I did put down HGT sod (gasp) in the backyard in late March of this year after having to install some drain tile and a dry well. It was a few weeks before my daughter's 1st birthday party and my wife was so upset at the look of the yard that I got permission to do it and couldn't pass it up.  It probably deserves a thread of its own, but I have to say that I've been extremely impressed by its drought performance in some areas that I don't have irrigation. Although I'm sure that shade is a really slow killer, it also seems to be handling it well so far as well.


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

@g-man Talk me off of the renovation ledge!



In all seriousness, will probably just overseed my remaining Barserati seed, but I've really been thinking about going back to TTTF when I see neighbors low input yards looking better.

I just don't think I can maintain a low HOC in my heat and humidity so I'll take it up a bit next season. I also know now that I can't get by with Fall-only N so I'll just have to feed it and work a heavy fungicide rotation I guess.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You right side neighbors doesn't look good. I'm still intrigued by the grass under the light post.


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

g-man said:


> I'm still intrigued by the grass under the light post.


I know! The same thing happened with some sections I dug up and replaced by our new stoop. I can only figure it's the reduction in compaction. Or maybe the cuts in the soil allowed some remaining coated urea to wash more readily to the root zone? This actually led me to core aerate today. I'm gonna try to get to some leveling and adding compost this weekend before the overseed.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

I think you will be ok. Kbg is a heavy feeder, especially immature turf. This year, I eased off summer N, using foliar organics to avoid fungal outbreaks, while lowering peak HOC from 4" to 2.5" (because I liked the density), and it backfired. The turf became weakened and weed pressure and drought persistence was high. Next year, I will be raising HOC some (maybe 3"-3.5") and feeding a little heavier with organics.

The fall N blitz (or spoonfeeding for seeded areas) should help you close the gaps. If you gradually raise HOC in the spring to 4"+ to shade/cool the crown and add some more organic N (without going nuts), you should be able to maintain kbg. Some folks in NC are doing it. Good luck!


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## vnephologist (Aug 4, 2017)

On 9/24, I leveled the low areas with a topsoil/sand mix, then spread ~2 cu/yds of McGill SoilBuilder compost with my new handy leveling rake. I then dropped ~1lb of Barserati in the leveled and bare areas, followed by 4lbs of Mazama over the entire lawn. So no more mono, but should be a good look with Barserati and Mazama. I had horrible luck with a Mazama overseed in 2017, but I still think that was seed source related. This time I took a cue from @ksturfguy and ordered from Ford & Sons. I also overseeded a little more 4th Millennium in the patch at the street along with some Raptor 3. I rolled it all in and covered it up with ~4x 3cu/ft bags of peat. I rented the peat spreader along with the roller this time and wow was I ever stupid to put it down any other way in the past. Highly recommend the $12 rental! Irrigation has been on 10A, 12P, 2P, 4P, 6P for about 3-4 mins a zone since then. I can sometimes skip the 10A on the cooler mornings. I've got TTTF babies this AM, so things are looking good. The one positive of drought conditions is that you can at least control the water precisely. I didn't bother with any starter fert, fungicide or Tenacity this time. I'll apply as needed over the next few weeks. A few pics:


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