# Leveling a Bermuda Lawn



## Mightyquinn

I thought I would start this thread here for people who might have questions and for those of us who have done it in the past can give some pointers. I'll go first as I am sure I will miss some things since it has been quite a few years since I did it.

1. You will need some kind of sand, personally I don't think it makes a huge difference on the type of sand as long as it does NOT have any large rocks or pebbles in it that would damage a reel, anything smaller than 1/8"-1/16" should be fine. Whatever you can find around you for the cheapest price will do the job. I just started working in the concrete industry and found out we sell our sand for $40 a ton which is about 2-3 pick up truck loads of sand, you will have to find a way to transport it yourself but it's a viable option. I haven't had the chance to inspect it but it looks like it would do the job and it sits outside all day every day so it may be wet if you just had some rain.

2. You will want to mow as low as you can as this will help you find all the low spots and you will use less sand in the process and get better results.

3. Find a good drag mat (it's worth the money!) they sell some on Amazon, just make sure you get one that fits your lawn and that you have the equipment (tractor, riding lawn mower, ATV....) to pull it. If you have a small lawn you may be able to get away with pulling it yourself. This is something I wish I had invested in when I did mine as I went cheap and tried to make my own. After actually purchasing a real one and using it this year, it was night and day between the performance.

4. You will need about 1 yard of sand per 1K of lawn depending on how bad your lawn is. You can adjust your amount up or down depending on the severity of the job at hand.

5. You will want to lay down fertilizer after you are done dragging the lawn so as not to "collect" it all in one spot when you do turns.

6. Water, Water, Water. Irrigation or a good rainfall will help settle the sand down into the canopy and it will also wash it down into the low spots too. It's not a bad idea to get everything good and level and the apply water to the lawn and see if there are any spots you need to touch up or not. You will also need to water often for the first week or so to help the grass grow up through the sand and start filling in.

7. Aerate, I think this is a good step to do right before you level as it will create channels for water and nutrients to get down into the root zone and it should help "lock" everything together too. This is another step I wish I had done when I did my lawn.

Well that's it for now but if I think of anything else I will be sure to come back and add it to the thread. Please feel free to chime in with ANY and ALL questions and things you might have learned during your project.


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## Red Cup

One thing I'm curios about, Ware bought several bags of sand and had them placed around his yard where most of the level projects I have seen, everyone gets the large pile in one location. Was the effort of fixing the ruts from the lift that dropped them off worth having the shorter distance to put the sand out?


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## MrMeaner

Excellent post - You should add your leveling pictures here MQ


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## Mightyquinn

MrMeaner said:


> Excellent post - You should add your leveling pictures here MQ


I actually thought about that! Great idea! Others should add theirs too!


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## Ware

Red Cup said:


> One thing I'm curios about, Ware bought several bags of sand and had them placed around his yard where most of the level projects I have seen, everyone gets the large pile in one location. Was the effort of fixing the ruts from the lift that dropped them off worth having the shorter distance to put the sand out?


I think it helped, but I underestimated how well the Gorilla Cart would work for moving the sand to where I needed it. I still liked the big bags though, and would probably do that again even if I just had them placed at the curb. It really kept things tidy and helped me "meter" how much sand I was putting on a particular area (e.g. 2k ft2 back yard got 2 bags of sand). It also helps keep the sand dry if you don't plan on doing the job all at once, or want to keep some leftover sand for touching up some areas after a couple weeks of settling. That said, the bags were more expensive than bulk sand. I would recommend figuring out how much you will need, then compare prices locally and weigh the benefits against the total added cost.



Mightyquinn said:


> MrMeaner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent post - You should add your leveling pictures here MQ
> 
> 
> 
> I actually thought about that! Great idea! Others should add theirs too!
Click to expand...

Great idea. I will try to find some of mine too.


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## Ware

Here is a quick time progression of my back yard leveling... :bandit:

April 8, 2016

















































































April 13, 2016









May 1, 2016









May 12, 2016









June 24, 2016









August 2, 2016


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## dfw_pilot

Man, I love that last shot of green, Ware.


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## SGrabs33

Ware said:


> Here is quick time progression of my back yard leveling... :bandit:


Would you post the timeline for the last 4 pics?
Thanks


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## Ware

SGrabs33 said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is quick time progression of my back yard leveling... :bandit:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you post the timeline for the last 4 pics?
> Thanks
Click to expand...

Dates added. :thumbup:


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## AdamC

Great post! Thanks for this.


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## nagol

Would it be better to do this now (spring) or could it be done anytime while Bermuda is growing?


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## Ware

nagol said:


> Would it be better to do this now (spring) or could it be done anytime while Bermuda is growing?


I did mine around this time. Some wait until mid-summer. It's really up to you. I liked getting it done early so I could enjoy it the rest of the season. Not to mention the weather was more tolerable.


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## Mightyquinn

It can be done anytime the bermuda is growing but you want to plan for a month or two for it to fully grow through the sand. So about August is about as late as you want to wait.


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## wardconnor

I did a portion of my cool season lawn last labor day September 3, 2016. I did about 15k feet with about 20 ton of sand. I'm not sure how many yards that equates to.

A portion was hit with a skid steer to spread huge pile left by dump truck. It ended up leaving a few ruts that you can kind of see in this picture on the left. I was not able to remedy the ruts completely last fall so plan on doing another round here shortly when I'm fully green and vigorous.

This is the second time I've leveled. My yard started out fairly flat to begin with but not flat enough for my standards. All in all I've spread around 40 tons of sand. I pay 22$ or 26$(can't remember) per ton delivered. It's golf course quality sand that is shipped/trucked for hundreds miles to courses. I'm lucky that it's 30 miles from me.

I aerated and discarded cores before the last leveling project. The aerification and core collection was a major task to say the least.

One thing I can not stress enough at least for me is that it's a multi year endeavor. Reason being is that you can only add so much sand at once without smothering turf. I figure it's about one quarter to one half inch. This being *** PRG.

I also overseeded when top dressed.

Greens mowers help flatten out the surface because of the roller.

Next time I top dress I'll be sure to document better.

My neighbors think I'm crazy but the one across the street likes it because he says it's nice to look at from the chair on his porch.

9/3/16


10/15/16


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## Ware

wardconnor said:


> ...One thing I can not stress enough at least for me is that it's a multi year endeavor. Reason being is that you can only add so much sand at once without smothering turf. I figure it's about one quarter to one half inch. This being *** PRG.


I completely agree. I made a lot of progress last year, but I have several areas that already need to be addressed again. I'll be leveling again after I finish my upcoming irrigation project.


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## Jersey Devil

Wow.....great posts, guys. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Can I level a cool-season lawn in the same way as you do a Bermuda grass lawn?


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## Ware

BMS said:


> Wow.....great posts, guys. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Can I level a cool-season lawn in the same way as you do a Bermuda grass lawn?


See wardconnor's post above, he has a cool season lawn - although he mows it low with a reel. He may have some ideas if you're working with a taller height of cut though.


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## Jersey Devil

Ware said:


> BMS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.....great posts, guys. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Can I level a cool-season lawn in the same way as you do a Bermuda grass lawn?
> 
> 
> 
> See wardconnor's post above, he has a cool season lawn - although he mows it low with a reel. He may have some ideas if you're working with a taller height of cut though.
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing that out. I missed the comment about his lawn being a cool-season lawn. Very inspirational........a future project for me, perhaps!!


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## jbrown

Question, if I aerate, do I have to remove the plugs from my yard? or can I just leave them?

I plan to aerate and sand later this month.

JB


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## Mightyquinn

I would recommend removing them if it's possible. How low do you plan on mowing this year.


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## jbrown

Mightyquinn said:


> I would recommend removing them if it's possible. How low do you plan on mowing this year.


not real low  , around BH .5" now but think of going up a notch, my yard has lots of contours. when I aerated last year, they broke down rather quick, but I want the sand to fill the holes. I might collect the plugs and just dump them in the backyard. I don't know. :|

JB


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## Mightyquinn

The lower you mow the more imperative it is to remove the cores and OM.


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## tbdh20

Mightyquinn said:


> The lower you mow the more imperative it is to remove the cores and OM.


Hey MQ,
Are you pulling cores this spring?


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## Mightyquinn

tbdh20 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> The lower you mow the more imperative it is to remove the cores and OM.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey MQ,
> Are you pulling cores this spring?
Click to expand...

I'm probably going to wait until June/July to aerate. I beat the lawn up pretty good this year already and want it to recover a little first. Plus, it will help prolong the "grain" or puffiness if I spread it out. Might do another round in August too but that will all depend on how the first one goes.

I basically took the lawn down to dirt as there is NO matting at all so I have a fresh canvas to work with.


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## touchofgrass

Mightyquinn said:


> I thought I would start this thread here for people who might have questions and for those of us who have done it in the past can give some pointers. I'll go first as I am sure I will miss some things since it has been quite a few years since I did it.
> 
> 1. You will need some kind of sand...
> 
> 2. You will want to mow as low as you can...
> 
> 3. Find a good drag mat...
> 
> 4. You will need about 1 yard of sand per 1K of lawn ...
> 
> 5. You will want to lay down fertilizer ...
> 
> 6. Water, Water, Water...
> 
> 7. Aerate...
> 
> Well that's it for now but if I think of anything else I will be sure to come back and add it to the thread. Please feel free to chime in with ANY and ALL questions and things you might have learned during your project.


Hey babe; You forgot that you need a good wife and daughter to help you spread the sand out in the first place... just saying


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## touchofgrass

Red Cup said:


> One thing I'm curios about, Ware bought several bags of sand and had them placed around his yard where most of the level projects I have seen, everyone gets the large pile in one location. Was the effort of fixing the ruts from the lift that dropped them off worth having the shorter distance to put the sand out?


The first time we did this, our neighboring house was vacant so we had them drop the sand in their side yard (right to the right of our driveway if you are facing our house) Then we took a garden card (4-wheeled cart) filled it and spread it all over the yard (SUPER DIFFICULT and wore Amanda and I down BIG TIME). MQ took his landscaping rake and spread it out the best he could.

The second time we did it, the neighbors had moved in and we felt it rude to use their lawn again so we had them drop it on our lawn (to the right of the driveway) and it has just rained so when the truck backed up to dump it, it left ruts in the hell-strip...UGH. Amanda and I moved / spread the sand around in the same manner as before. Then MQ took our buddy's JD Riding Mower and his make-shift drag mat and went to town. Once he posts the pics, you'll see it appears he had pretty good coverage. I don't recall if he ran the irrigation or if we got a good rain that first night, but the next day, you could barely see the sand.

This recent 'leveling' he did, was just his using the buddy's JD again and his new drag mat that he bought and moved around existing earth as he mowed very low and had lots of exposed dirt to spread around.

I am sure he will correct me on some of this so stay tuned


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## touchofgrass

Ware said:


>


 our garden cart looks just like this but it's a different brand



Ware said:


>


 I think you have more coverage than we did on ours


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## tbdh20

Mightyquinn said:


> tbdh20 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> The lower you mow the more imperative it is to remove the cores and OM.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey MQ,
> Are you pulling cores this spring?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm probably going to wait until June/July to aerate. I beat the lawn up pretty good this year already and want it to recover a little first. Plus, it will help prolong the "grain" or puffiness if I spread it out. Might do another round in August too but that will all depend on how the first one goes.
> 
> I basically took the lawn down to dirt as there is NO matting at all so I have a fresh canvas to work with.
Click to expand...

Thanks MQ,

I am planning a lighter sand application this year, I've never cored and was hoping this would help with water penetration (I have issues in areas).

My generic plan, any opinions appreciated!

- Now until 5/26, regular maintenance and keep it close to 1/2" (possibly a pgr app).
- out of town until 6/11, return. Scalp, verticut and core and remove all debris.
- The next day or two, apply sand, drag, fertilize, water.

Thanks


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## Mightyquinn

tbdh, do you have irrigation or a way to water while you are on vacation? If so, I would do all the scalping, verticutting, aeration, sanding, dragging and fertilizing BEFORE you go on vacation. The 2 weeks you are away will give it time to heal and you don't have to worry about doing it when you get back and the overgrowth shouldn't be as bad either. Just a suggestion is all. I can see how you would want to do it later after getting back too since it would be later in the year.

I think core aerating will really help with your drainage issue as you get more sand into the soil profile and create a place for water to drain. I'm doing it more to remove organic matter and have a place for water and nutrients to get down to the roots and help firm it up some too.


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## SGrabs33

Mightyquinn said:


> I think core aerating will really help with your drainage issue as you get more sand into the soil profile and create a place for water to drain. I'm doing it more to remove organic matter and have a place for water and nutrients to get down to the roots and help firm it up some too.


I really hope aerating help with my drainage issue(water staying in the swale). My neighbors are planning a group buy on aeration and compost and I think I will just do the aeration($60). Hopefully I can easily remove the cores with a broom and/or blower and then top dress with sand.

Would you increase what seems to be the standard rate of 1 yard per 1k if you are aerating first?


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## tbdh20

Mightyquinn said:


> tbdh, do you have irrigation or a way to water while you are on vacation? If so, I would do all the scalping, verticutting, aeration, sanding, dragging and fertilizing BEFORE you go on vacation. The 2 weeks you are away will give it time to heal and you don't have to worry about doing it when you get back and the overgrowth shouldn't be as bad either. Just a suggestion is all. I can see how you would want to do it later after getting back too since it would be later in the year.
> 
> I think core aerating will really help with your drainage issue as you get more sand into the soil profile and create a place for water to drain. I'm doing it more to remove organic matter and have a place for water and nutrients to get down to the roots and help firm it up some too.


MQ,
I have irrigation, it is antiquated and needs upgrading, not this season. It makes perfect sense do to it prior! 
Thanks!


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## Mightyquinn

SGrabs33 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think core aerating will really help with your drainage issue as you get more sand into the soil profile and create a place for water to drain. I'm doing it more to remove organic matter and have a place for water and nutrients to get down to the roots and help firm it up some too.
> 
> 
> 
> I really hope aerating help with my drainage issue(water staying in the swale). My neighbors are planning a group buy on aeration and compost and I think I will just do the aeration($60). Hopefully I can easily remove the cores with a broom and/or blower and then top dress with sand.
> 
> Would you increase what seems to be the standard rate of 1 yard per 1k if you are aerating first?
Click to expand...

How bad is your lawn that you are trying to smooth out? If it's just some minor things I would just stay with 1yd/K, if you have some major ankle rollers you might want to up the amount by 10-25%. The core aerators that we can rent only take out 2-3" cores so I don't think you would loose too much sand to the core holes. How many sq/ft do you have?



tbdh20 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> tbdh, do you have irrigation or a way to water while you are on vacation? If so, I would do all the scalping, verticutting, aeration, sanding, dragging and fertilizing BEFORE you go on vacation. The 2 weeks you are away will give it time to heal and you don't have to worry about doing it when you get back and the overgrowth shouldn't be as bad either. Just a suggestion is all. I can see how you would want to do it later after getting back too since it would be later in the year.
> 
> I think core aerating will really help with your drainage issue as you get more sand into the soil profile and create a place for water to drain. I'm doing it more to remove organic matter and have a place for water and nutrients to get down to the roots and help firm it up some too.
> 
> 
> 
> MQ,
> I have irrigation, it is antiquated and needs upgrading, not this season. It makes perfect sense do to it prior!
> Thanks!
Click to expand...

Plus you don't have to look at it when it's all brown and ugly waiting for it to recover!! :thumbup:


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## SGrabs33

Mightyquinn said:


> SGrabs33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think core aerating will really help with your drainage issue as you get more sand into the soil profile and create a place for water to drain. I'm doing it more to remove organic matter and have a place for water and nutrients to get down to the roots and help firm it up some too.
> 
> 
> 
> I really hope aerating help with my drainage issue(water staying in the swale). My neighbors are planning a group buy on aeration and compost and I think I will just do the aeration($60). Hopefully I can easily remove the cores with a broom and/or blower and then top dress with sand.
> 
> Would you increase what seems to be the standard rate of 1 yard per 1k if you are aerating first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How bad is your lawn that you are trying to smooth out? If it's just some minor things I would just stay with 1yd/K, if you have some major ankle rollers you might want to up the amount by 10-25%. The core aerators that we can rent only take out 2-3" cores so I don't think you would loose too much sand to the core holes. How many sq/ft do you have?
Click to expand...

It isn't too bad so maybe 1yd/K, would work well. I have 4500sq/ft.


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## Mightyquinn

SGrabs33 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SGrabs33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I really hope aerating help with my drainage issue(water staying in the swale). My neighbors are planning a group buy on aeration and compost and I think I will just do the aeration($60). Hopefully I can easily remove the cores with a broom and/or blower and then top dress with sand.
> 
> Would you increase what seems to be the standard rate of 1 yard per 1k if you are aerating first?
> 
> 
> 
> How bad is your lawn that you are trying to smooth out? If it's just some minor things I would just stay with 1yd/K, if you have some major ankle rollers you might want to up the amount by 10-25%. The core aerators that we can rent only take out 2-3" cores so I don't think you would loose too much sand to the core holes. How many sq/ft do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It isn't too bad so maybe 1yd/K, would work well. I have 4500sq/ft.
Click to expand...

I would just get 5 yds and call it good :thumbup: Do you have a decent drag mat?


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## gijoe4500

If y'all were resodding, would you level before laying sod or after? Would it be safe to throw down the bermuda sod straight on top of the sand? It'll probably be tifway or tifsport.


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## Mightyquinn

gijoe4500 said:


> If y'all were resodding, would you level before laying sod or after? Would it be safe to throw down the bermuda sod straight on top of the sand? It'll probably be tifway or tifsport.


YES!!!! Get your lawn as level as you can BEFORE laying the sod down. It will save you a TON of work later down the road. The variable you won't have control over is if they cut the sod in uneven pieces but hopefully that won't happen or try to keep those uneven pieces all in the same area. The sod will actually root faster in sand as it won't have to work hard to get down into it.


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## wardconnor

gijoe4500 said:


> If y'all were resodding, would you level before laying sod or after?


Before. Most definitely before. Spend days and days and days leveling before sod or seed. You won't regret it.

Then in 1 year or so do the leveling if needed. Heck... Level it anyway in the years to come. Can't go wrong with leveling at anytime. Golf courses top dress semi annually.


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## Mightyquinn

wardconnor said:


> gijoe4500 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If y'all were resodding, would you level before laying sod or after?
> 
> 
> 
> Before. Most definitely before. Spend days and days and days leveling before sod or seed. You won't regret it.
> 
> Then in 1 year or so do the leveling if needed. Heck... Level it anyway in the years to come. Can't go wrong with leveling at anytime. Golf courses top dress semi annually.
Click to expand...

+1


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## gijoe4500

Awesome. I'll add it to my list of stuff to do. I'm excited about the whole process.


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## SGrabs33

Mightyquinn said:


> SGrabs33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> How bad is your lawn that you are trying to smooth out? If it's just some minor things I would just stay with 1yd/K, if you have some major ankle rollers you might want to up the amount by 10-25%. The core aerators that we can rent only take out 2-3" cores so I don't think you would loose too much sand to the core holes. How many sq/ft do you have?
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't too bad so maybe 1yd/K, would work well. I have 4500sq/ft.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would just get 5 yds and call it good :thumbup: Do you have a decent drag mat?
Click to expand...

Thanks. No drag mat yet. Do you have the link to the one your bought? I don't think I saw the link in any of your earlier posts.


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## Mightyquinn

This is the one I got and it's the same as Ware's. Drag Mat. If you have a smaller yard you might want to go with something smaller.


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## tbdh20

SGrabs33 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SGrabs33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't too bad so maybe 1yd/K, would work well. I have 4500sq/ft.
> 
> 
> 
> I would just get 5 yds and call it good :thumbup: Do you have a decent drag mat?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks. No drag mat yet. Do you have the link to the one your bought? I don't think I saw the link in any of your earlier posts.
Click to expand...

Hey SGrabs33,

I went with a smaller hand drag 3X3' because of grade issues/tight areas. You are close and welcome to give mine a spin on your first leveling attempt!


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## fp_911

How difficult are those mats to drag around by hand? I don't mind doing a little manual labor (builds up the quads) but want to know if it's just asking for trouble or do I need to borrow someone's golf cart in the neighborhood?


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## gijoe4500

fp_911 said:


> How difficult are those mats to drag around by hand? I don't mind doing a little manual labor (builds up the quads) but want to know if it's just asking for trouble or do I need to borrow someone's golf cart in the neighborhood?


How big of a lawn? I'm going to do a best effort with a landscapers rake before attacking with a drag mat by hand, and am not expecting it to be too bad.


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## Mightyquinn

gijoe4500 said:


> fp_911 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How difficult are those mats to drag around by hand? I don't mind doing a little manual labor (builds up the quads) but want to know if it's just asking for trouble or do I need to borrow someone's golf cart in the neighborhood?
> 
> 
> 
> How big of a lawn? I'm going to do a best effort with a landscapers rake before attacking with a drag mat by hand, and am not expecting it to be too bad.
Click to expand...

I can tell you from experience that a Landscape rake will not get the job done, as it will not get the sand down in the canopy like a drag mat or even a broom. It's great for moving the sand around but not for the final dragging and smoothing out.


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## gijoe4500

Mightyquinn said:


> gijoe4500 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fp_911 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How difficult are those mats to drag around by hand? I don't mind doing a little manual labor (builds up the quads) but want to know if it's just asking for trouble or do I need to borrow someone's golf cart in the neighborhood?
> 
> 
> 
> How big of a lawn? I'm going to do a best effort with a landscapers rake before attacking with a drag mat by hand, and am not expecting it to be too bad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can tell you from experience that a Landscape rake will not get the job done, as it will not get the sand down in the canopy like a drag mat or even a broom. It's great for moving the sand around but not for the final dragging and smoothing out.
Click to expand...

 :thumbup: Which is why I'm going to get it all fairly evenly spread around the yard with the rake, then use the drag mat over the top of it.

I used just the rake on my last go round. Was more a rough-in than anything. Its better than nothing, but won't give you a pool table smooth yard like some of you guys have.

Unless it is better to drag it straight off the sand pile with the drag mat?


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## SGrabs33

tbdh20 said:


> SGrabs33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would just get 5 yds and call it good :thumbup: Do you have a decent drag mat?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. No drag mat yet. Do you have the link to the one your bought? I don't think I saw the link in any of your earlier posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey SGrabs33,
> 
> I went with a smaller hand drag 3X3' because of grade issues/tight areas. You are close and welcome to give mine a spin on your first leveling attempt!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the offer! I will have to let you know when I decide to undertake the project as a drag will definitely make things easier.


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## tbdh20

fp_911 said:


> How difficult are those mats to drag around by hand? I don't mind doing a little manual labor (builds up the quads) but want to know if it's just asking for trouble or do I need to borrow someone's golf cart in the neighborhood?


I found it very easy w/ the small mat, on a small area 3500 +/-. You are really just polishing the sanded area if that makes sense, also found it easier walking backwards when doing it by hand.


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## Ware

gijoe4500 said:


> ...Unless it is better to drag it straight off the sand pile with the drag mat?


No, I would get it pretty smooth with rakes, then switch to the mat. You're on the right track.


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## MarkV

Do you ever add dirt to level?

I have some spots with maybe a 2 foot radius that need to be brought up an inch.


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## Mightyquinn

MarkV said:


> Do you ever add dirt to level?
> 
> I have some spots with maybe a 2 foot radius that need to be brought up an inch.


You "can", but sand is best to use as the bermuda will grow up through it a lot easier. If you do use dirt, try not to smother it too much or add it in layers over time.


----------



## MrMeaner

Gotta tell ya, I have 5-6inches of top soil brought in after I built my pool house/shop to help with a low area collecting water sitting next to the building when it rained hard. I had a landscaper do it with the intentions of having to re sod this area. so he comes out a grades the new top soil 5-6" deep about 35' in length and moves on to other jobs. I call him about a month later to get him back over to lay some sod. The bermuda at the lower edges of the top soil were all ready creeping in.. anyway another months pass and not landscaper!! I was pissed but by the time he finally showed up couple months later the grass had almost filled in. So don't be afraid to lay down some top soil because if bermuda will grow through just about anything!!
'


----------



## Ware

MrMeaner said:


> Gotta tell ya, I have 5-6inches of top soil brought in after I built my pool house/shop to help with a low area collecting water sitting next to the building when it rained hard. I had a landscaper do it with the intentions of having to re sod this area. so he comes out a grades the new top soil 5-6" deep about 35' in length and moves on to other jobs. I call him about a month later to get him back over to lay some sod. The bermuda at the lower edges of the top soil were all ready creeping in.. anyway another months pass and not landscaper!! I was pissed but by the time he finally showed up couple months later the grass had almost filled in. So don't be afraid to lay down some top soil because if bermuda will grow through just about anything!!
> '


I agree. If you're dealing with inches of depth to fill, I would use top soil. Inches of sand wouldn't be very firm for a very long time.


----------



## Red Cup

Ware said:


> MrMeaner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta tell ya, I have 5-6inches of top soil brought in after I built my pool house/shop to help with a low area collecting water sitting next to the building when it rained hard. I had a landscaper do it with the intentions of having to re sod this area. so he comes out a grades the new top soil 5-6" deep about 35' in length and moves on to other jobs. I call him about a month later to get him back over to lay some sod. The bermuda at the lower edges of the top soil were all ready creeping in.. anyway another months pass and not landscaper!! I was pissed but by the time he finally showed up couple months later the grass had almost filled in. So don't be afraid to lay down some top soil because if bermuda will grow through just about anything!!
> '
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. If you're dealing with inches of depth to fill, I would use top soil. Inches of sand wouldn't be very firm for a very long time.
Click to expand...

Bermuda might grow through it but if you have a slow grower like a Zoysia with 5-6" to add I would peel back the zoysia by taking a shovel then slicing under it, raise the area with the soil and place the zoysia back down.

I filled some ruts in my small zoysia area last winter with just sand they grew in, but they took forever. my bermuda is a different story, it grew through asphalt.


----------



## MSLiechty

New guy here in need of leveling my GSP is a little rough on it but it's nearly may and it really never goes dormant think it's too late to start leveling this year? 




ML


----------



## J_nick

MSLiechty said:


> think it's too late to start leveling this year?


It's not too late to start leveling. Actually the opposite, it's getting to be the best time because the grass will be growing aggressively.


----------



## Silverado

I leveled in East Texas last July, in the heat of summer. If I was to do it again, now is the time. Some of my weak areas struggled to come back last year. The first image shows progress weekly. The other image was taken this week. The light yellow spots are from Celsius and a happy trigger finger. See DFWs post


----------



## MrMeaner

awesome Silverado!! Looks great now!!


----------



## dfw_pilot

MrMeaner said:


> awesome Silverado!! Looks great now!!


+1!


----------



## southernguy311

dfw_pilot said:


> MrMeaner said:
> 
> 
> 
> awesome Silverado!! Looks great now!!
> 
> 
> 
> +1!
Click to expand...

+2 sweet looking turf


----------



## wardconnor

southernguy311 said:


> dfw_pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrMeaner said:
> 
> 
> 
> awesome Silverado!! Looks great now!!
> 
> 
> 
> +1!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> +2 sweet looking turf
Click to expand...

+3


----------



## Silverado

Thanks! It wouldn't be looking like that without the help of you guys!


----------



## Coach8

Thinking about doing a leveling project this summer. Other than smaller diameter sand, any recommendations on type? Builders sand, river sand? What do you guys think?


----------



## Ware

Coach8 said:


> Thinking about doing a leveling project this summer. Other than smaller diameter sand, any recommendations on type? Builders sand, river sand? What do you guys think?


I ask for "masonry sand".


----------



## Coach8

Thanks Ware! If I have a couple of areas that I need to bring up quite a bit, do you think topsoil to bring those areas up first before I topdress?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Coach8 said:


> Thanks Ware! If I have a couple of areas that I need to bring up quite a bit, do you think topsoil to bring those areas up first before I topdress?


What kind of "topsoil" are you thinking of? Most of the bagged soil at the big box stores are too chunky and have a lot of large pieces of stuff in them. The Scott's Lawn Soil isn't too bad and I have used that in the past but there is nothing like good old sand to fill spots in on bermuda. You can just get a bag or two of Play Sand or All Purpose Sand to fill in the really bad spots. They can be found over with all the bagged cement.


----------



## Coach8

I was thinking screened topsoil from the same place I would get the bulk sand. This would only be for spot along the curb where water has washed out spots along the edge. These areas are needing 2-3 inches to be level with curb.


----------



## SGrabs33

Coach8 said:


> I was thinking screened topsoil from the same place I would get the bulk sand. This would only be for spot along the curb where water has washed out spots along the edge. These areas are needing 2-3 inches to be level with curb.


I had one really bad spot like this. I did sand last year and it continually got washed out(same would have happened with topsoil). Only got it up maybe 1 of 3 inches. This year I had an extra piece of sod from a project and it fit there perfectly and I will not have to worry about wash out. Just a thought.


----------



## Coach8

Here is an example. This drainage ditch sometime overflows into the yard and has washed these areas out over the 10 years we have been here.


----------



## Ware

My experience is if the sand is too thick in areas it will tend to squish around/get displaced until the grass fills in substantially - think walking on the beach. This may or may not cause problems for you.

If the areas aren't large, I like SGrabs33's suggestion to lay a few strips of sod to get the thickness you need and then blend it with sand. Another way to accomplish this is rent a sod cutter and cut the area up. Backfill with soil to raise the level and then lay your own turf back.


----------



## Coach8

I may do the sod recommendation. The bermuda is always thin here and I'm just trying to get rid of some of these trouble spots while I'm in the process of getting ready to level the entire yard.


----------



## jbrown

I just put down 1 ton of sand on Saturday. I just filled in all my little low spots.


JB


----------



## Ware

I gathered a couple quotes for masonry sand today...


The large one ton bags are $40ea, plus $75 delivery - or free delivery with 7+ bags.
There is a local lady with a 7-ton dump truck that delivers small loads of gravel, mulch, top soil etc. Her delivery charge is $65 plus $11.20/ton for the masonry sand... so about $145 for a 7-ton load.

From what I have gathered, sand weighs 1.3-1.5 tons per cubic yard, depending on the moisture content.

Anyway, I just wanted to float these numbers out here so people can maybe use them for regional comparisons.


----------



## MrMeaner

Around Lubbock, there are two sand suppliers and quite frankly both suck.. one is a little better than the other and the sand has less clay content. Both are basically masonry sand used for all the brick and rock masonry houses/work here. The sand seems to have a clay component and once rewetted with stays "sticky" or "flaky" or "crust" once spread out if that makes sense. My golf course uses it and you never want to be in a bunker.

If you go to a local nursery or sand and gravel place you basically buying Skid Steer bucket load for $40 if you have a truck or trailer to haul it in but your limited to a yard or two. Delivery driver around here charge $75.00 per load as well and most basic dump trucks hold about 6 yards.


----------



## Mightyquinn

I have a place here that sells it by a 30 cu/ft bag but I haven't called to see how much it is yet. They have top dressing sand, so I am thinking of getting some of that for when I do my minor leveling job later. I'll get more specifics on the products when it gets closer. June/July time frame.


----------



## wardconnor

Here is what I pay for sand delivered. I think it comes out to be $22.87 per ton


----------



## Mightyquinn

wardconnor said:


> Here is what I pay for sand delivered. I think it comes out to be $22.87 per ton


That's expensive!! I think I paid $240 for 12 yds of sand delivered a few years back. Of course the area I live in is called the Sand Hills so that may have something to do with it.


----------



## wardconnor

Mightyquinn said:


> wardconnor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what I pay for sand delivered. I think it comes out to be $22.87 per ton
> 
> 
> 
> That's expensive!! I think I paid $240 for 12 yds of sand delivered a few years back. Of course the area I live in is called the Sand Hills so that may have something to do with it.
Click to expand...

This was the per ton cost not cubic yard cost. This was a full dump truck load and a pup truck trailer behind the dump truck full. It was a lot of sand. But I need a lot. Can never be level enough.


----------



## Mightyquinn

wardconnor said:


> Can never be level enough.


Aint that the TRUTH!!! :thumbup:


----------



## Killbuzz

Two quick questions. First, after leveling, what fertilizer should be used? Something high in nitrogen or equal across the board? Second, should I start cutting as soon as it starts to green up again?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Yes, a high Nitrogen fertilizer would be preferably to use to help it grow through the sand. You could also use a balanced fertilizer if you want to if you feel like your lawn could use it.

Yes cutting it as soon as you can would be the way to go. Just know that the sand will do a number on your reel and bedknife if you cut it real low.


----------



## Ware

Here is some time lapse footage from my leveling project this weekend... :bandit:

https://youtu.be/GmG27omI_AI


----------



## Alan

Great job Ware!! Cool tunes to go with your video too. How well do those dumping carts work? I've seen them at Northern Tool.


----------



## Redtenchu

Great Job Ware!


----------



## Alan

If anyone reading this has concerns about smothering or killing their Bermuda because you've covered it with sand, I don't think you need to be. Our street just got repaved and it's not harming this bit of Bermuda at all.


----------



## Ware

Alan said:


> Great job Ware!! Cool tunes to go with your video too. How well do those dumping carts work? I've seen them at Northern Tool.


Mine is the 6 cubic feet Gorilla Cart, and I really enjoy it. For most things, I prefer it to a wheelbarrow, and it doesn't rut up the lawn because the weight is distributed to four wheels instead of one. It pulls easily by hand - even with a heaping load of sand.


----------



## Ware

I think a smooth lawn is probably more addictive than any opioid.


----------



## Alan

Better for your health, no doubt.


----------



## Redtenchu

You'll be playing billiards on it in 2 weeks! Awesome!


----------



## Killbuzz

Hopefully all goes well this weekend and I'll have a time lapse of my leveling.


----------



## Iriasj2009

Ware said:


> Here is some time lapse footage from my leveling project this weekend... :bandit:


Love your back yard. What's your watering schedule looking like?!


----------



## Ware

Iriasj2009 said:


> Love your back yard. What's your watering schedule looking like?!


Thanks! Right now my watering schedule involves praying twice a day for less rain. I'm at 8.77 inches over the last month (since April 8). :lol:


----------



## Coach8

Ware said:


> Here is some time lapse footage from my leveling project this weekend... :bandit:


Nice! How much sand and how many square feet of you don't mind me asking?


----------



## wardconnor

Killbuzz said:


> Hopefully all goes well this weekend and I'll have a time lapse of my leveling.


Yes please


----------



## Ware

Coach8 said:


> Nice! How much sand and how many square feet of you don't mind me asking?


7 tons (so probably ~4.5 yards) on about 6k square feet.


----------



## lagerman72

Great video Ware! I'm now inspired to add a little sand and level mine out a bit more.


----------



## Iriasj2009

Ware said:


> Coach8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice! How much sand and how many square feet of you don't mind me asking?
> 
> 
> 
> 7 tons (so probably ~4.5 yards) on about 6k square feet.
Click to expand...

Great info, I used 2 yards on 2.5ksqft. I think .75-1 yard of sand/ksqft is a good reference point.


----------



## Spammage

Just a thought since I haven't levelled my lawn, but I noticed that it is recommended to fertilize prior to topdressing to encourage growth through the sand. Has anyone tried to time their topdressing around a post PGR application growth flush or maybe at least incorporate the flush into the existing plan to help speed up the process?


----------



## dfw_pilot

I haven't, but I like your way of thinking. Out of regulation Bermuda grows very well.


----------



## J_nick

Spammage said:


> Just a thought since I haven't levelled my lawn, but I noticed that it is recommended to fertilize prior to topdressing to encourage growth through the sand. Has anyone tried to time their topdressing around a post PGR application growth flush or maybe at least incorporate the flush into the existing plan to help speed up the process?


I think Ware's was getting into the flush during his recent leveling


----------



## Mightyquinn

I've never seen the "flush" or heard of anybody else having it. I know that it can happen but it's not something I would count on.

I think fertilizing before topdressing you may run into all the fertilizer getting collected in one area. I would apply it after as it will make it through the sand fairly easy.


----------



## dfw_pilot

Mightyquinn said:


> I've never seen the "flush" or heard of anybody else having it.


It's real.


----------



## Mightyquinn

dfw_pilot said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never seen the "flush" or heard of anybody else having it.
> 
> 
> 
> It's real.
Click to expand...

Or did it return to normal growth? Which may have seemed to be a flush of growth?


----------



## J_nick

Mightyquinn said:


> dfw_pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never seen the "flush" or heard of anybody else having it.
> 
> 
> 
> It's real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or did it return to normal growth? Which may have seemed to be a flush of growth?
Click to expand...

I wasn't able to spray my hell strip last year due to some road construction/ debris and let me tell you the flush is real! I mowed everyday for about a week and a half then was able to go every 2 days until my next spray


----------



## Mightyquinn

Thanks JN!! I now know someone it's happened to, glad to know it's a real thing. &#128077;


----------



## Topcat

Question for those that are pros at levelling. This is my first year with a low cut bermuda lawn. My front is pretty flat, but in order to get to the next level, I will need to level at some point, perhaps later this summer when it is growing more aggressively. I am still working at getting the bermuda to fill in all the way, as there are a few spots that are still filling in. Going from 2" to less than .050" when I scalped at the start of the season showed how thin the grass was under the canopy.

I've seen a few videos on youtube of folks that levelled lawns, and I've seen different substrates used to get that level flat lawn that I am looking for... Everything from crushed/pulverized pecan shells to compost to sand to a mix of all three.

Has anyone used compost sand mix here? My goal is to add nutrients to the soil as I level. Sand is pretty void of any nutrient, and the area I am in has sandy soil anyway. I think getting more organics in the ground will help my lawn.

Thoughts?


----------



## dfw_pilot

I haven't leveled, but the lower you go, the less OM you'll want.


----------



## Mightyquinn

Topcat said:


> Question for those that are pros at levelling. This is my first year with a low cut bermuda lawn. My front is pretty flat, but in order to get to the next level, I will need to level at some point, perhaps later this summer when it is growing more aggressively. I am still working at getting the bermuda to fill in all the way, as there are a few spots that are still filling in. Going from 2" to less than .050" when I scalped at the start of the season showed how thin the grass was under the canopy.
> 
> I've seen a few videos on youtube of folks that levelled lawns, and I've seen different substrates used to get that level flat lawn that I am looking for... Everything from crushed/pulverized pecan shells to compost to sand to a mix of all three.
> 
> Has anyone used compost sand mix here? My goal is to add nutrients to the soil as I level. Sand is pretty void of any nutrient, and the area I am in has sandy soil anyway. I think getting more organics in the ground will help my lawn.
> 
> Thoughts?





dfw_pilot said:


> the lower you go, the less OM you'll want.


DFWP is correct in that the lower you go the less OM you will want. Think about your local golf course, do they add OM to the greens when topdressing? While OM is a good thing to have for the soil and the grass it will create more problems for you as you continue to mow low. I know this because I am dealing with it as I type this in my lawn and I plan on doing an aggressive aeration and topdressing plan for the next few years until I can "firm up" the lawn.

Now, golf courses generally use a mix of sand and peat at a ratio of 80/20 give or take and you "can" do the same thing but it will be at a high cost. I just called a local supplier the other day and the "top dressing mix" was 3 times more expensive the masonry sand. I can't see it being 3 times as good for that price.

If you go with strictly OM for topdressing you will be in the same spot you are now a year or two down the road as it will break down and become part of the soil. Think about the mulch you put in the flower beds, you have to replace it every year or two because it breaks down and becomes nothing. Sand on the other hand does not break down and creates a nice stable surface for you to have a level and smooth lawn. Sand will also allow water and oxygen to get into the root zone creating a healthy atmosphere for root development. It will also allow any fertilizer you add to get into the roots easier too.

Even though sand is void of any nutrients, it gives you a clean pallet to add what your lawn needs. Sorry I got carried away with the explanation but I hope it helps


----------



## SimonR

You want it rock hard!

https://m.facebook.com/groups/1526203341002076?view=permalink&id=1867440500211690

OM is not what you want.


----------



## Killbuzz

All set for tomorrow. I've got 8 coworkers, 3 wheelbarrows, 2 landscaping rakes, 1 drag mat, 1 lawn roller, 5 yards of sand and lots and lots of ice cold Mexican Cokes...and beer. My coworkers want me to put up a volleyball net so we can recreate the scene from Top Gun but all I have is a badminton net. Shirtless badminton anyone?


----------



## Redtenchu

Killbuzz said:


> All set for tomorrow. I've got 8 coworkers, 3 wheelbarrows, 2 landscaping rakes, 1 drag mat, 1 lawn roller, 5 yards of sand and lots and lots of ice cold Mexican Cokes...and beer. My coworkers want me to put up a volleyball net so we can recreate the scene from Top Gun but all I have is a badminton net. Shirtless badminton anyone?


That's awesome! Take lots of pictures for us!


----------



## wardconnor

Push brooms. Get some push brooms and a 4 wheel dump wagon. Those are nice for a sand project.


----------



## Coach8

Has anyone here leveled with sand that doesn't have a sprinkler system? I'm planning on leveling this summer but I use a rain train to irrigate and I'm wondering if the wheels on the rain train + dragging the hose behind it will mess up the leveling job itself?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Coach8 said:


> Has anyone here leveled with sand that doesn't have a sprinkler system? I'm planning on leveling this summer but I use a rain train to irrigate and I'm wondering if the wheels on the rain train + dragging the hose behind it will mess up the leveling job itself?


I think as long as you drag the sand into the canopy really good, you shouldn't have too many issues with the rain train or the hose. Once you get 1 or 2 good rainfalls that should also help settle a lot of the sand down into the canopy. I would just keep an eye on it afterwards and you "might" have to touch up a spot or two with a broom. One good thing with sand is that it is somewhat self-leveling as it will seek to lower spots until the grass starts to fill in.


----------



## jayhawk

I bought a 5 ft wide drag...now the buyer remorse comes in....current thinking is this type of rake would be better. why? rigid mainly and I'm only dealing with 2000 sq feet roughly. I was going to have one made (4x2, angle iron ) for 200$ but stumbled across this from R&R.

Opinions or Feedback on the drag?


----------



## Ware

jayhawk said:


> I bought a 5 ft wide drag...now the buyer remorse comes in....current thinking is this type of rake would be better. why? rigid mainly and I'm only dealing with 2000 sq feet roughly. I was going to have one made (4x2, angle iron ) for 200$ but stumbled across this from R&R.
> 
> Opinions or Feedback on the drag?


I have one of those - the 4ft one. I think it's going to work great for light topdressing, but I went a little heavy this last time and the weight of it wanted to dig into the sand a little. It pushes really well across just turf though, so I blame it on using too much sand.

For light topdressing 2,000 square feet, I think it would be great. :thumbup:


----------



## Killbuzz

Finished up the initial leveling of my lawn. It still has a long way to go but this is a good start. I haven't gone over it with a broom just yet but I'm think about getting the lawn brush cartridge for my mower and just using it instead. I still have a little over a yard of sand left over. I know once the grass grows through that I'll need it to level some more areas. We got all of the sand moved and spread out in about an hour. The drag mat and roller took a lot longer. I've never gotten so many weird looks in my life...


----------



## AdamC

Loks great! Whose weird looks will turn to looks of astonishment when you have the best lawn in the street! Look forward to the progress shots


----------



## Killbuzz

It's only been a few days but my lawn is already making a come back.


----------



## MrMeaner

Killbuzz,

Looking good!! If the sand is anything like mine, it the may "cake" up a little as the grass is trying to grow through. You can go back over with the drag mat to knock it back down. Also your irrigation will help the sand settle in.


----------



## Iriasj2009

MrMeaner said:


> Killbuzz,
> 
> Looking good!! If the sand is anything like mine, it the may "cake" up a little as the grass is trying to grow through. You can go back over with the drag mat to knock it back down. Also your irrigation will help the sand settle in.


Yes looking great!!


----------



## Killbuzz

It's only been a week.


----------



## Mightyquinn

very Nice!! Have you had any significant rainfall since doing it?


----------



## Killbuzz

Week two.


----------



## wardconnor

Killbuzz. These pictures are awesome. How is the flatness result? Another round needed or did it work great?


----------



## Killbuzz

wardconnor said:


> Killbuzz. These pictures are awesome. How is the flatness result? Another round needed or did it work great?


There is a noticible difference in how level it is but there are a handful of problem spots that will still need some more sand. I want the lawn to fully recover before I start.


----------



## Alan

Wow! Going from beach to grass in 2 weeks is quite amazing.


----------



## MsTin

I have clay soil here. I have read conflicting reports on using sand to level your Bermuda lawn.


----------



## Jericho574

MsTin said:


> I have clay soil here. I have read conflicting reports on using sand to level your Bermuda lawn.


http://www.thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=336


----------



## MsTin

Yeah, I have read through that and it looks as though none of you have had problems. I have very hard compacted clay soil and I am up on a hill compared to my neighbors. I am scared that if I use sand, I will either ruin my lawn or will have erosion issues from the steep decline.


----------



## jayhawk

Sanding, then rolling ...it holds pretty well surprisingly. Huge down pour is what you to "correct" on occasion if the grass hasn't grown through as yet.


----------



## WarEagle26

With all the sand that is being added to soil for leveling, have you guys found that the lawn requires more frequent watering afterwards? Maybe I'm overthinking it and it isn't really enough to change the overall composition of the soil that much. I was just thinking that it may drain more quickly with all the added sand.


----------



## Mightyquinn

WarEagle26 said:


> With all the sand that is being added to soil for leveling, have you guys found that the lawn requires more frequent watering afterwards? Maybe I'm overthinking it and it isn't really enough to change the overall composition of the soil that much. I was just thinking that it may drain more quickly with all the added sand.


Most of the sand is going on top and not down where the roots are so losing water is minimal at best but all the sand can help a poor draining lawn to a certain extent. I have never had any issues with having to water more because of leveling with sand.


----------



## aug0211

Loving this thread! I'm a bluegrass guy in Ohio but have hopes of leveling next year.

Any concerns or tips for leveling with KBG? Will it grow through the sand as well as Bermuda?


----------



## Mightyquinn

aug0211 said:


> Loving this thread! I'm a bluegrass guy in Ohio but have hopes of leveling next year.
> 
> Any concerns or tips for leveling with KBG? Will it grow through the sand as well as Bermuda?


I think you should be fine but check out Connor Ward's thread as he has used sand a lot to level his lawn.


----------



## aug0211

Good call, thanks MQ! No idea how I overlooked that  One of his leveling videos is literally what brought me to the site, lol.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

aug0211 said:


> I'm a bluegrass guy in Ohio but have hopes of leveling next year.
> 
> Any concerns or tips for leveling with KBG? Will it grow through the sand as well as Bermuda?


The first thread that came to mind when I saw your question is the leveling project that Pete1313 did at his prior house. (He's in a new house now and has an awesome KBG lawn renovation going on that you can read about in Pete1313 Reel Mowed Bewitched Kentucky Bluegrass Renovation.)

Anyway, you can read all about his prior lawn leveling project at Leveling advice from the warm-season experts. (I hope I don't get in trouble for posting a link to a different lawn site, but that thread sounds like exactly what you're trying to do and will be incredible inspiration!)

Pete1313 is an active reader here, so he'll probably see your question here and hopefully be able to chime in.


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks for the links K&N! wardconnor has has some good experience and knowledge leveling cool season grass as well.



aug0211 said:


> Any concerns or tips for leveling with KBG? Will it grow through the sand as well as Bermuda?


 KBG will not grow thru the sand as well as Bermuda. For a leveling project I would not go any thicker than 1/4"(about .75 cubic yards per 1000 sq ft). In the leveling attempt that K&N linked to I put down 3/8" and I think it was too aggressive. The results were good, but the recovery was too long. Other than that, all the rest is the same as leveling bermuda. Cut short, drag it smooth, water.


----------



## wardconnor

Pete1313 said:


> Thanks for the links K&N! wardconnor has has some good experience and knowledge leveling cool season grass as well.
> 
> 
> 
> aug0211 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any concerns or tips for leveling with KBG? Will it grow through the sand as well as Bermuda?
> 
> 
> 
> KBG will not grow thru the sand as well as Bermuda. For a leveling project I would not go any thicker than 1/4"(about .75 cubic yards per 1000 sq ft). In the leveling attempt that K&N linked to I put down 3/8" and I think it was too aggressive. The results were good, but the recovery was too long. Other than that, all the rest is the same as leveling bermuda. Cut short, drag it smooth, water.
Click to expand...

Everything that Pete said is correct. You really can't go that heavy. It really does takes a long time recover.

I have several areas that I sanded around August 18th this year that are still bare and will not be recovering on its own this year. They will need to be reseed next year or I will need to wait for a slower recovery with an aggressive fert program. I will likely just use a bunch of fert in the spring to try to get those areas to fill in. I have no doubt that they will fill in as I have seen it happen several times.

I have sanded 3 times now. You really can not help going too heavy in some areas. It just happens because you will inevitably have several low spots that are very low in relation. The trick I have learned is to make sure that you get as much of the grass blades exposed as you can. Even if it is just a bunch of little grass tips poking above sand, try your best to expose the grass underneath. If you completely smother the green then it pretty much will die and will not grow through. Using a push broom to work sand down into the grass and into low spots works well. This really helps to expose the grass tips so the smothering becomes minimal.

I plan to level again in the spring. Watch this video showing the broom action. Also see my main leveling video.


----------



## aug0211

Awesome stuff! WC, I think that is the video that actually brought me here from the other site 

At 1/4" max depth, it will definitely be a couple year journey for me. Bummer - but I kind of figured that anyway. Kicking myself for not doing it earlier.

Pete's projects have also been an inspiration for me! I don't think I had seen the thread at the other place, I'll have to check that one out today (thanks,K&N).


----------



## Adrian82

Anyone has some feedback on using a vehicle in the sand leveling process?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Adrian82 said:


> Anyone has some feedback on using a vehicle in the sand leveling process?


What kind of "vehicle" are you thinking about?


----------



## Movingshrub

Mightyquinn said:


> Adrian82 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone has some feedback on using a vehicle in the sand leveling process?
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of "vehicle" are you thinking about?
Click to expand...

What's that thing used to fill hesco barriers? :lol:


----------



## Mightyquinn

Movingshrub said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Adrian82 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone has some feedback on using a vehicle in the sand leveling process?
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of "vehicle" are you thinking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's that thing used to fill hesco barriers? :lol:
Click to expand...

A Bucket Loader?? :? That's what I always saw them use. I think that's a little over kill to spread the sand around plus it would tear up the lawn.


----------



## Adrian82

Mightyquinn said:


> Adrian82 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone has some feedback on using a vehicle in the sand leveling process?
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of "vehicle" are you thinking about?
Click to expand...

2007 Mountaineer


----------



## wardconnor

Adrian82 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Adrian82 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone has some feedback on using a vehicle in the sand leveling process?
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of "vehicle" are you thinking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 2007 Mountaineer
Click to expand...

Do not use a vehicle on the lawn. It will make the ruts worse. Large vehicles and lawns are not a good match unless you like ruts.

Use a 4 wheeler or a lawn tractor.


----------



## Movingshrub

wardconnor said:


> Do not use a vehicle on the lawn.
> 
> Use a 4 wheeler or a lawn tractor.


Concur. I would almost be hesitant on the 4 wheeler depending on how wet it is when you drive across the turf.


----------



## Mightyquinn

Movingshrub said:


> wardconnor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do not use a vehicle on the lawn.
> 
> Use a 4 wheeler or a lawn tractor.
> 
> 
> 
> Concur. I would almost be hesitant on the 4 wheeler depending on how wet it is when you drive across the turf.
Click to expand...

I think that would depend on what kind of tires are on the 4 wheeler but I still don't think it's enough weight to hurt anything.


----------



## MasterMech

Mightyquinn said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wardconnor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do not use a vehicle on the lawn.
> 
> Use a 4 wheeler or a lawn tractor.
> 
> 
> 
> Concur. I would almost be hesitant on the 4 wheeler depending on how wet it is when you drive across the turf.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think that would depend on what kind of tires are on the 4 wheeler but I still don't think it's enough weight to hurt anything.
Click to expand...

Many vehicles are capable of exerting less ground pressure than a human walking.


----------



## Adrian82

It's hard Georgia red clay out here. I am not super concerned with ruts as I would do this procedure when the ground is dry. My neighbor did some damage last year with a bobcat but the yard recovered during the season since I intervened quickly.

I don't have a tractor or 4 wheeler. I will continue to ponder. Thanks for the advice as usual.


----------



## Suaverc118

I'm wanting to level my Bermuda lawn and don't plan on ever using a reel mower, but will cut it as short as my mower allows me. I have sodded gras and have so many uneven areas. I spoke with someone who sells sand and they suggested I use top soil because the sand will just disappear into the dirt. How do I know what I am suppose to use and how tall, 1", 2" of topsoil or sand? How do you know which to use?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Suaverc118 said:


> I'm wanting to level my Bermuda lawn and don't plan on ever using a reel mower, but will cut it as short as my mower allows me. I have sodded gras and have so many uneven areas. I spoke with someone who sells sand and they suggested I use top soil because the sand will just disappear into the dirt. How do I know what I am suppose to use and how tall, 1", 2" of topsoil or sand? How do you know which to use?


It's going to be harder to get your lawn level at your HOC but it can still be done and you can use either sand or topsoil since your grass will be taller. I would just mark off the troubled areas with some marking paint and then add your soil/sand to that area. It will be something you will have to keep after during the whole year as you will only be able to spot level.


----------



## Suaverc118

I've been mowing at 2nd notch which is around 1.5", the lowest it will go is 1.25"


----------



## MasterMech

Aerating as much as possible will help level out small imperfections as well. It's not going to fill in large sinkholes and ditches, but it should eventually (2/3 seasons) take care of small dips and holes left over from the sod.


----------



## Movingshrub

Think this should be enough sand?


----------



## Ware

Movingshrub said:


> Think this should be enough sand?


That's what dreams are made of.


----------



## Movingshrub

Unfortunately, this is what I can haul.


----------



## WarEagle26

Movingshrub said:


> Unfortunately, this is what I can haul.


@Movingshrub Where did you end up picking that up from? Also, were you not worried about losing a lot of sand through those mesh side walls?


----------



## Movingshrub

Baker sand and gravel. Yes I was but it was my buddy's trailer. I hadn't seen it before and I picked up the trailer on the way to baker, so I was committed.

It was pricey for fine masonry sand. $30 a ton.


----------



## Movingshrub

I stumbled upon this today for anyone that may be interested.

http://sportsturfonline.com/2015/07/07/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-infield-drags/7254/


----------



## Davie_Gravy

Anyone in the DFW area know of a good source for delivered sand?
cross posted here in 'my thread' https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=35823#p35823


----------



## Bunnysarefat

I got some quotes for sand delivered. One of them is "9 yards 3/8" minus Screen Sand"

For $100 more I can get the same amount of masonry sand. This masonry sand may be washed as a part of their processing. Which one do you guys think I should go with?


----------



## Ware

I think with 3/8" screen you would have pea gravel sized pebbles in it.


----------



## raldridge2315

The 3/8" minus is way too course. You need masonry sand.


----------



## Davie_Gravy

@Bunnysarefat please state your source and total price for masonry.


----------



## Bunnysarefat

Davie_Gravy said:


> @Bunnysarefat please state your source and total price for masonry.


Lol, I'll do it because you said please.

I reached out to Lowery Sand & Gravel Co. and their customer service rep or saleswoman shot me back a quote for 9 yards of masonry for $410 delivered. Later in the day what appears to be the owner shot me an email with new quotes on all I had requested, including $350 for masonry sand delivered.

He also included a quote I had requested for "plaster sand" for $395. Not sure what that is but thought I'd ask. I presume it's just washed more than the masonry sand.


----------



## Davie_Gravy

thanks. same folks i reached out to and I figured they are raping us with those costs.


----------



## graemegb

Just curious here as it looks like most of you have reel mowers. Will I be able to mow with a rotary mower after doing this or will it just suck up the sand? I am not ready to purchase a nice reel mower yet and I would rather not spend $200 on a cheap one that I will replace later on.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

graemegb said:


> Just curious here as it looks like most of you have reel mowers. Will I be able to mow with a rotary mower after doing this or will it just suck up the sand? I am not ready to purchase a nice reel mower yet and I would rather not spend $200 on a cheap one that I will replace later on.


Depending on the HOC (height of cut) that you're mowing at, you'll have no worry about sucking up sand that you put down for levelling with your mower. Let's say you're mowing at 1 1/2", or higher, and you add 1/2" of sand to your yard. You've then got 1" of grass sticking up. You're going to have to wait until the grass gets back to 1 3/4" or higher to clip it back down to the 1 1/2" HOC. You might get some sand, but not a lot. Sand is much heavier than grass clippings.


----------



## Kballen11

My local supply shop sells materials by weight. I have about 5k sq ft to cover so I know I need 5 yards of sand. Anyone know how many tons that would be?


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Kballen11 said:


> My local supply shop sells materials by weight. I have about 5k sq ft to cover so I know I need 5 yards of sand. Anyone know how many tons that would be?


2,600-3,000 lbs per cubic yard.

http://dansdirtandgravel.com/material_calculator.htm


----------



## okstatejoe

So I'm thinking about trying to level my yard this year. I recently purchased a John Deere 180B and I'm going to try and maintain a HOC of 5/8". Would you all recommend doing the leveling before I start applying PGR or does it matter? It seems like the recovery would be slower but I've never used PGR so I have no idea. If not early in the year, I was going to try and wait to do it right before I'll be out of town for a week more towards the middle of summer. The thought is that the sanding would buy me a little time to be gone that long without mowing. Any suggestions?


----------



## Colonel K0rn

okstatejoe said:


> So I'm thinking about trying to level my yard this year. I recently purchased a John Deere 180B and I'm going to try and maintain a HOC of 5/8". Would you all recommend doing the leveling before I start applying PGR or does it matter? It seems like the recovery would be slower but I've never used PGR so I have no idea. If not early in the year, I was going to try and wait to do it right before I'll be out of town for a week more towards the middle of summer. The thought is that the sanding would buy me a little time to be gone that long without mowing. Any suggestions?


The best way to answer this question is with a brief explanation of how PGR works. PGR will slow the vertical growth of the plant, but not stop it completely. The gibberellic acid that's created inside of the plant to allow it to grow vertically is inhibited, but the plant still carries on all of the other functions related to photosynthesis and growth. It builds up stores of the other chemicals while it's under regulation, and once regulation wears off, you'll notice a flush of rapid vertical growth as the plant now has all the things available to it to do so.

With that being said, when leveling, you're going to be raising the soil surface by topdressing with sand, therefore the plant will still need to grow upwards to reach the desired HOC you'd be mowing at. If you're desiring to maintain a HOC of 5/8" and you add 1/4" of sand, and you have just enough sand to have tips of the grass showing, is your grass now at 1/4" or 7/8" or 5/8"? The grass will have to grow another 7/8" to get to where you can mow it back down to the 5/8" for your maintained HOC.

Knowing now that if you have regulated the vertical growth with PGR, and then you know that you're going to have the grass re-establish the crowns at a higher soil line (the level of the sand you added), the best course of action would be to apply PGR, wait until it's nearing the end of regulation (3-4 weeks) and then sand. That way it'll power through the sand, and create the new soil line for you. In reality, it's got to grow a lot, and by giving it some stored energy, it should make the transition pretty quickly.


----------



## Mightyquinn

To go off of what CK said above, it's amazing how fast it will grow through the sand in about a weeks time and you lawn will be almost fully green again except for a few spots that may have been lower. I personally don't think leveling your lawn while it's under PGR control is a bad thing since bermuda grows pretty damn fast regardless if it's under control or not but then again it's always better to be safe and time your leveling when PGR control is starting to fall off.


----------



## okstatejoe

Thanks for the responses. That's very helpful. So right now the majority of my lawn is at 1/2" (where I scalped at) and I've been maintaining the green I have so far at 5/8". Do you all think I'll be alright letting it come out of PGR control for the week I'm gone after sanding? I'd definitely like to take advantage of the growth flush but it also kind of makes me nervous considering I won't be able to keep an eye on it. If everything sounds good I'll probably plan to scalp back down to 1/2", aerate, remove the cores, and then sand a day or two before I leave for a week. I have a heavy clay soil so I like the sound of what has been mentioned previously about aerating before leveling.


----------



## Flynt2799

Two questions for you guys before I take on this leveling project.

1) Do any of you see any benefit to aerating prior to leveling? My soil seems a little too compacted to me but are there truly benefits if I just plan on leveling right after?

2) I am located in Austin and Whittlesey, where I plan to get the sand from has masonry sand but they also have an option called top dressing sand for almost half the price? Anybody near the area know the difference?


----------



## Kballen11

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yVMLV9mmYnI

Looks like I am going to have to come up with a drag when I level my lawn. Anyone think this will work for topdressing? If not, what other ideas do you have?


----------



## Suaverc118

Flynt2799 said:


> Two questions for you guys before I take on this leveling project.
> 
> 1) Do any of you see any benefit to aerating prior to leveling? My soil seems a little too compacted to me but are there truly benefits if I just plan on leveling right after?
> 
> 2) I am located in Austin and Whittlesey, where I plan to get the sand from has masonry sand but they also have an option called top dressing sand for almost half the price? Anybody near the area know the difference?


Hey, Austinite right here as well! Where are you looking for sand? I'm currently looking as well. Also, I would assume the topdressing sand is a combo so the lawn gets nutrients as well, but I could have sworn it was more than just sand.


----------



## Ware

Most here use masonry sand because it is readily available just about everywhere. Any sand should be fine as long as it is screened and doesn't have pebbles.


----------



## Flynt2799

@Suaverc118 I am located in pflugerville just east of 45/130.

I found whittlesley because they are close by and have purchased mulch from them before. This will be my first sand order. I went up to the shop to look the other day and unfortunately nobody seemed to know the difference other than the price. Looking at them though the top dressing sand seemed to have flakes of something in it, couldn't tell what it was though. Think I'm gonna go with the masonry sand, a little more pricy but everyone on here seems to have luck.

Just received my drag mat in the mail today, now I just need to find a good day to get it done!


----------



## kur1j

I'm planning on doing my first lawn leveling project. So just wanted a sanity check for a few questions before I have 3 cu/yds of sand in my driveway that I can't do anything with...

1) Is sand my best option? It is what I was planning on using and what everyone seems to recommend. This link that was mentioned in another thread to me seems to describe compost instead of sand? https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/W161-N.pdf

2) Getting the soil correct. Is there anything I'm going to do incorrectly by introducing sand into my lawn where it would cause problems for the bermuda to grow? My current soil is clay mostly.

3) Tools...from my understanding the best bang for the buck is a drag mat. Looking at getting a 3x5 or 3x3 drag mat. I don't have a lawn tractor so I will be pulling it by hand over my 6k sqft lawn. Would the 3x5 be too much to pull by hand? Should I get the 3x3? https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=drag+mat

I'm planning on scalping this weekend or into next week, following weekend core aerating, and then leveling the next weekend or potentially the weekend after.

Any other recommendations or final thoughts before I try this?


----------



## Greendoc

Compost? That is fine and good if you are out to create adobe or something that a mud hut could be constructed of. Compost is the best way to make it so the lawn cannot be mowed low because of how it shrinks and disappears in time. I have run into a situation where the compost holding too much water backfired and made diseases worse. There is nothing magical in compost that acts as a fungicide. I can see it helping if it reduces stress on the grass by not allowing it to dry in drought conditions and by supplying small amounts of nutrients if the area is otherwise maintained under starvation conditions. But, it is of diminishing benefit to a watered and fertilized highly maintained lawn.

I suggest you look at the conversation I am having in the cool season section of the forum. The conversation got sidetracked a bit because I am discussing the only instance core aeration is worth doing and how it has to be done to make it worth it. A hole every 4 inches is not it. I am also discussing modifying the soil without scrapping the existing sod because grass for most of our warm season lawns does not come in 50 lb bags at a cheap price.

The red volcanic clay that is common in Hawaii is as bad as I can think of. Other kinds of clay that are not as common are dark grey. Those are completely unfit for use as something to grow grass on. Red volcanic clay actually grows decent Centipede due to its high acid and Manganese content provided it stays inland in the more high rainfall areas of the island. It becomes the worst thing to deal with if brought down to sea level and put on top of sand.

Sand is bad in clay if it is going to be added in amounts where it will not become the majority of the soil. That is the point of my discussion. But if you are willing to add enough via mass addition or repeated applications, then you are ok. I have seen single core aerations and single thin toppings of sand(1/4-1/2) turn lawns into a poorly drained concrete slab. In other words, there is no doing it half way or just a little on clay soil. Either you do IT or not at all.


----------



## Suaverc118

Where did you order your dragmat from


----------



## Suaverc118

This is the sand across my street and wonder if this would cover about 2,500 sq ft.
And I'm very south from you by onion creek.


----------



## Movingshrub

kur1j said:


> I'm planning on doing my first lawn leveling project. So just wanted a sanity check for a few questions before I have 3 cu/yds of sand in my driveway that I can't do anything with...
> 
> 1) Is sand my best option? It is what I was planning on using and what everyone seems to recommend. This link that was mentioned in another thread to me seems to describe compost instead of sand? https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/W161-N.pdf
> 
> 2) Getting the soil correct. Is there anything I'm going to do incorrectly by introducing sand into my lawn where it would cause problems for the bermuda to grow? My current soil is clay mostly.
> 
> 3) Tools...from my understanding the best bang for the buck is a drag mat. Looking at getting a 3x5 or 3x3 drag mat. I don't have a lawn tractor so I will be pulling it by hand over my 6k sqft lawn. Would the 3x5 be too much to pull by hand? Should I get the 3x3? https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=drag+mat
> 
> I'm planning on scalping this weekend or into next week, following weekend core aerating, and then leveling the next weekend or potentially the weekend after.
> 
> Any other recommendations or final thoughts before I try this?


1. The take away I got from that article was to try to use something similar to the existing soil. It *think* the ideal would've been a mixture of sand and topsoil. I opted to go with sand for leveling purposes.

2. I don't think so, if so, we're going to be in the same boat.

3. No experience with a drag mat. I used a landscape rake but I was focused on refilling trenches rather than smoothing out the entire yard.


----------



## kur1j

@Greendoc

So now i'm confused/not sure what to do.

So let me take a small step back. This place was new construction and completed in nov 2016. The land is primarily built up with clay. They grade the plot, put out enough top soil to cover the clay and then laid the sod.

Currently I don't really don't have much trouble with drainage. I'm keeping an eye on two places. There are two spots that won't dry up as fast (5feet x ~20feet) which is between the houses both sides of mine on the property line. What I mean by this is that if we get a downpour water will flow down that path and drain out to the sewer fine. But it will take slightly longer to dry out than the rest of yard but when I aerated last year that problem seemed to really go away.

So you mentioned in your other post that you do the sand capping primarily to help with drainage, and fixing the soil due to high salt content to where stuff won't grow. From my inexperienced eyes I don't think I have drainage problem. As for the salt content, I honestly don't have a clue about that...BUT i attaches a soil sample I had done late last year that might shed some light on that? I was always under the impression that this clay doesn't retain much for nutritents and that I would typically have to put out slightly more fert than normal, but I'm not a soil expert.

So at this point based on what you have said not sure what I have or what to do. My original intention of wanting to do this was to simply level the lawn so it would me smoother.

I attached two images one being a side profile view of the thatch later and the soil itself. The second is a closer picture to the soil. The third picture is a soil sample test I had done late last year. Since then I know there has been some fertilizer put down and some lime. I'm planning on doing another soil sample asap.

So based off this information is sand capping still your recommendation? If so I assume that what Ware and others have done here you wouldn't consider being sand capping? I believe you mentioned that sand capping is when you put 1"+ of sand on the lawn? Why wouldn't this suffocate the grass? The two things I'm worried about is killing the grass and messing up the grading where I do make a problem for drainage.

You eluded to it I believe but could this be done over time? Instead of an inch all at one time, doing 1/2" in spring and 1/2" in fall or the following year?


----------



## Flynt2799

Suaverc118 said:


> Where did you order your dragmat from


Order the drag mat from amazon, best price I found.


----------



## Suaverc118

Thanks @Flynt2799 .

I plan on leveling my lawn. I live in Austin Texas and the subdivision is about 4 years old. Almost all houses are on hills and mine is a slight grade. Not sure how leveling with sand will help or hurt this. I will not be using a reel mower anytime soon, and plan on maintaining a height between 1" and 1.5". I called a place a couple months back and they suggested top dressing or a combo, which is more expensive, but don't understand why they would suggest those vs sand when everyone who has done it here uses sand. I don't want it to be perfectly leveled, but want it to be where it's not a pain to mow because there are so many dips.


----------



## Greendoc

If that drains acceptably and is not accumulating salt, you are fine to not sand cap. Just do what you need to do to make it mowable. Do not top with anything containing organic matter or soil. That does not work well for purposes of making a lawn level. BTW, I would trade what you have for what I normally deal with. My soil does not crumble in my hands.


----------



## Reel Low Dad

@kur1j I picked up the 3x5 drag mat and it is not bad to pull by hand. If you have somewhat tight turns to make the 3x5 is a little tough to maneuver and I could see the 3x3 doing better.


----------



## kur1j

@Fistertondeluxe

Thanks! I don't have a lot of "tight turns", except there is a couple beauty strips I have to maintain between the street and sidewalk which are about 3 feet wide. Would thst be a problem for the 3x5 mat?

Granted i'm honestly struggling to figure out where the 3x5 one would have a problem in my yard. i don't have a fence so i wouldn't have to make a turn into a corner. The beauty strip and then there is some landscaping that might be a little tight but I don't see why it would pose a problem.

https://imgur.com/a/E36hj

That's the yard while I was working on scalping it.


----------



## Reel Low Dad

I would think the 3x5 over the beauty strip would work well and get the ground perfectly level with the surrounding concrete. The cost isn't very different between the two so the 3x5 would help get things done faster.


----------



## kur1j

Fistertondeluxe said:


> I would think the 3x5 over the beauty strip would work well and get the ground perfectly level with the surrounding concrete. The cost isn't very different between the two so the 3x5 would help get things done faster.


Thanks. Well the stupid thing keeps going in and out of stock on Amazon. i saw one for 99 last night now it's 209 from different vendor.


----------



## Reel Low Dad

@kur1j I think I snagged mine for 90 ish


----------



## Kicker

Greendoc said:


> If that drains acceptably and is not accumulating salt, you are fine to not sand cap. Just do what you need to do to make it mowable. Do not top with anything containing organic matter or soil. That does not work well for purposes of making a lawn level. BTW, I would trade what you have for what I normally deal with. My soil does not crumble in my hands.


@Greendoc So you say if a soil analysis comes back elevated with salts and has trouble draining, to not use sand for leveling. Then you say to not use anything containing organic matter (compost) or soil to level.

So what's someone plan of action to level with a lawn that is compact gray clay with high salt content?


----------



## kur1j

@Greendoc

Tried to scalp down to .1" and i was digging dirt everywhere unfortunately . Planning on moving to .2 to .3" to see if that will work. But basically scraping up the yard that low.


----------



## Mightyquinn

kur1j said:


> @Greendoc
> 
> Tried to scalp down to .1" and i was digging dirt everywhere unfortunately . Planning on moving to .2 to .3" to see if that will work. But basically scraping up the yard that low.


Damn, you went down to .1" :shock: What HOC were you at when you tried to go that low? I've never tried to go that low before. You sir are a brave man :thumbup:


----------



## ahartzell

Mightyquinn said:


> kur1j said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Greendoc
> 
> Tried to scalp down to .1" and i was digging dirt everywhere unfortunately . Planning on moving to .2 to .3" to see if that will work. But basically scraping up the yard that low.
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, you went down to .1" :shock: What HOC were you at when you tried to go that low? I've never tried to go that low before. You sir are a brave man :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was thinking...lawn better me level as a slab of concrete to go that low...props to you for even trying. I figured out early this spring that I hit dirt in some spots at 0.4"


----------



## kur1j

Eh, i put it at .1 and without the blade on just walked it around in places that I thought would hit...it hit...eh it was worth a shot. I'll probably end up at .3 to .5 scalp or so i bet and have to maintain at .75 or so.

Last year I scalped at .7 and maintained at .9 or so just because it was all new to me.


----------



## ahartzell

kur1j said:


> Eh, i put it at .1 and without the blade on just walked it around in places that I thought would hit...it hit...eh it was worth a shot. I'll probably end up at .3 to .5 scalp or so i bet and have to maintain at .75 or so.
> 
> Last year I scalped at .7 and maintained at .9 or so just because it was all new to me.


Ah - probably a smart move. I didn't think that far ahead and I just wanted to get done so I just made up a number in my head and went to town...


----------



## Greendoc

Mightyquinn said:


> kur1j said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Greendoc
> 
> Tried to scalp down to .1" and i was digging dirt everywhere unfortunately . Planning on moving to .2 to .3" to see if that will work. But basically scraping up the yard that low.
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, you went down to .1" :shock: What HOC were you at when you tried to go that low? I've never tried to go that low before. You sir are a brave man :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Previous HOC was anywhere from 11/2-3". This is what I have to do to rehab an incorrectly maintained lawn. If I hit dirt, so be it, Hit the dirt while it is rehab, that is one less area that turns into a brown spot when I am maintenance mowing at 0.4-0.5". The GM with the hardened reel and bedknife can take it. I might have to backlap after using it for that, but it mows just fine after that. Kind of why I am interested in a second mower fit with a Dyna-Blade reel so I can chew off the first 1/4" below the dirt and get everything off.


----------



## Greendoc

Mightyquinn said:


> kur1j said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Greendoc
> 
> Tried to scalp down to .1" and i was digging dirt everywhere unfortunately . Planning on moving to .2 to .3" to see if that will work. But basically scraping up the yard that low.
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, you went down to .1" :shock: What HOC were you at when you tried to go that low? I've never tried to go that low before. You sir are a brave man :thumbup:
Click to expand...

That is what I do to rehab a lawn that has been incorrectly mowed. Idiots with their string trimmers. If I hit dirt, so be it. I want as many of the high spots as possible to get shaved off so they do not become an issue during maintenance mowing. I would like to get the Dyna-Blade and a second mower to do this task rather than abuse my reel and bedknife. Otherwise, this is why I normally replace a reel every year.


----------



## Greendoc

Kicker said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that drains acceptably and is not accumulating salt, you are fine to not sand cap. Just do what you need to do to make it mowable. Do not top with anything containing organic matter or soil. That does not work well for purposes of making a lawn level. BTW, I would trade what you have for what I normally deal with. My soil does not crumble in my hands.
> 
> 
> 
> @Greendoc So you say if a soil analysis comes back elevated with salts and has trouble draining, to not use sand for leveling. Then you say to not use anything containing organic matter (compost) or soil to level.
> 
> So what's someone plan of action to level with a lawn that is compact gray clay with high salt content?
Click to expand...

Rewind. If I were faced with gray clay that was full of salt, that would definitely be a sand cap lawn. Sand capping is above and beyond topdressing to level. If you are working with a warm season grass such as Bermuda or Zoysia, the procedure can include aeration and core removal such that 30-50% of the original root zone is taken as plugs, then removed from the lawn. That is followed by application of enough sand such that the root zone is replaced with sand to a depth of at least 3". I first got a name for this procedure that I have been doing all along from the USGA. They advocate light, but frequent topdressings following aeration. The objective is to get rid of the dirt that the grass was originally planted on and replacing it with sand. I have red clay that is poorly drained and full of salts. Adding dirt or organic matter makes things worse. Sand, and lots of it is needed if I am going to maintain grass that is of fairway quality. I occasionally run into gray clay that is even worse. I remember being brought in by a landscaper as a consultant. He was going to be establishing Zoysia on 10,000 sq ft of gray clay. I had him stop what he was going to do and bring in over 6" of sand and then sprig this lawn. Last I heard, the lawn grew in and did not have problems. If my friend tried to grow the grass on this gray clay, he would probably get taken to the cleaners.


----------



## CenlaLowell

Question, would this work the same for a St Augustine lawn?


----------



## Thor865

Found this at Home Depot today? Would this suffice for spot leveling?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Thor865 said:


> Found this at Home Depot today? Would this suffice for spot leveling?


NO!!! It's got way too much small pebbles in it. Go over by the concrete section and get some Play sand or All Purpose Sand. They are both finer and have less "garbage" in them. :thumbup:

*EDIT* I just saw that it's PLAY sand and NOT PAVER sand, my bad  Yes, go ahead and get some as it should work just fine. :thumbup:


----------



## Thor865

Mightyquinn said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Found this at Home Depot today? Would this suffice for spot leveling?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO!!! It's got way too much small pebbles in it. Go over by the concrete section and get some Play sand or All Purpose Sand. They are both finer and have less "garbage" in them. :thumbup:
> 
> *EDIT* I just saw that it's PLAY sand and NOT PAVER sand, my bad  Yes, go ahead and get some as it should work just fine. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Haha I was like "it is playsand" then continued reading. I plan on leveling in late May early June


----------



## kur1j

There was a link (pdf) to how much sand per 1k and how much it would net you in leveling. I can't seem to find it. Anyone have a link to it?

I'm about to pull the trigger on leveling my lawn. I have about 5k i'm planning on leveling. Was going to get 4yards.

I have my dragmat, I have a dump cart, have my garden rake and a few shovels. Planning on doing it section by section after work.

Spread it out with shovel, drag it, and then water it in correct? I just aerated and scalped so I've got tons of cores everywhere and no grass. Any other things to be aware about?

Roughly how long should it take me to do 1k sqft? Compared to scalping for difficulty what should I be expecting?


----------



## Ware

Here is one...

https://turf.purdue.edu/sandcalc/index.html


----------



## kur1j

@Ware

Thanks!

I was thinking of roughly 1/2" of coverage, but damn I would need like 7 yards according to this calculator haha.

How deep is too deep of sand? It sounds like 4-5cuyds would be well under any problem for the bermuda to grow through for the size of my yard?

My bermuda is basically at dirt right now. It has started to grow back (im seeing sprigs pop up in the yard). I'm assuming if put down 1/4" to 1/2", it would easily grow through that?

Here's what it's looking like today.


----------



## Alan

Your Bermuda will laugh at you at 1/2".

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1415


----------



## Kballen11

My understanding is it is best to wait until 100% green up to ensure the grass is vigorously growing. The pictures you posted would make me think you need to wait until you have some more green.


----------



## kur1j

@Alan 
Damn, so I guess I should have no fear of ordering my 4-5 yards of sand and having way to much.

@Kballen11

That was after a complete scalp down to .3". For reference this is what my yard looked like before I scalped.


----------



## Cory

@kur1j

Saw it suggested here somewhere you need 1 cubic yard per 1000. I didn't aerate when I did it a couple weeks ago, put down 9 yards on my 5k front yard and it could still use some more in alot of spots. Depends on how bumpy it is to start with, mine was pretty bad.

I picked up the sand my self from a landscaping supply place near me. I drove my truck on the lawn, shoveled it out if the truck onto the lawn, raked it with a landscaping rake, drag mat and watered it in. Took 2 days but could have taken less if I would have had it delivered, can only haul 1 yard in my truck so it took 9 trips. It took me 14hrs total +or- including the trips.

I didn't wait for complete green up and there are several spots over 1". Here are some photos, I did it 13 days ago.

Before I started




Putting sand down and after watering in 








Today


----------



## kur1j

@Cory 
Oh wow awesome. That makes me feel a little better and basically implies that I probably should just order 5yards. Going to level about 5k sqft of yard. If you put 9 yards on your yard I would be putting under half on the same size. Yard isn't extremely bumpy but certain areas might need more than others


----------



## bandwgn09

Should (can) the lawn be scalped before leveling?


----------



## Mightyquinn

@kur1j I'm sure you would be fine if you went ahead and leveled now but just know that recovery will take a lot longer at this stage as opposed to you waiting for it to green most of the way back up. I always recommend 1 yard of sand/1K of lawn when you are doing this for the first time. More times than not you will always have wanted a little extra sand once you are done with your first leveling.

@bandwgn09 I think it all depends on what your current HOC is at. Anything at or below .500" and I think you will be fine with leveling and not really needing a scalp beforehand. You want the grass to be low so that you are able to see all the imperfections but scalping before hand will also slow down the recovery.


----------



## kur1j

@Mightyquinn 
Do you mean green up fully after a scalp? Or green up fully for the season?


----------



## balistek

best way to remove high spots? simple shovel?


----------



## Mightyquinn

kur1j said:


> Do you mean green up fully after a scalp? Or green up fully for the season?


If you were to level now it would take longer to recover than if you were to do it once it has greened up mostly from the scalp.


----------



## bandwgn09

@Mightyquinn My current height is about 1-1.5 inches. I would like to bring it down to a half inch. So I guess the steps are: Cut, fertilize, green-up, level, fertilize, green up, maintain. During this process I should keep the lawn fairly wet no?


----------



## Ware

If the grass is growing I would level immediately after scalping.


----------



## Thor865

These are two options for sand I have found at a local place. Which would y'all prefer that have done leveling. And is it ok for me to go ahead and level towards end of May to end of June?


----------



## kur1j

@Mightyquinn

Ok fair enough. Right now my problem is that I have these stupid aeration cores all over the yard. Don't want to run my reel over them. I already have PTSD from destroying my reel on two consecutive mows haha. My plan is to use a mixture of my rotary and my drag mat to break everything up.


----------



## Ware

Thor865 said:


> These are two options for sand I have found at a local place. Which would y'all prefer that have done leveling. And is it ok for me to go ahead and level towards end of May to end of June?


I would probably try the golf course sand if it isn't significantly more expensive. May-June timeframe is fine. :thumbup:


----------



## Thor865

Ware said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are two options for sand I have found at a local place. Which would y'all prefer that have done leveling. And is it ok for me to go ahead and level towards end of May to end of June?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would probably try the golf course sand if it isn't significantly more expensive. May-June timeframe is fine. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

👍


----------



## kur1j

Well here is where I'm at currently from the scalp recovery.

I think another 4-7 days and it will be pretty much green.


----------



## OState_Patriot

Any recommendations on a source for clean mason sand in OKC? I have used Dolese but still had pebbles.


----------



## bassadict69

How much are you guys paying for mason sand? Having 12K sq ft just in my backyard, I cannot afford mason sand!


----------



## turfman73

Hired company to top dress, came home to this - I don't think it should have all these pebbles.



Am I screwed? Anyway to get rid of the pebbles? I assume this will tear up my TruCut. Can't walk around barefoot on my lawn.

Waiting to find out how the owner will correct this


----------



## Colonel K0rn

turfman73 said:


> Hired company to top dress, came home to this - I don't think it should have all these pebbles.
> 
> 
> 
> Am I screwed? Anyway to get rid of the pebbles? I assume this will tear up my TruCut. Can't walk around barefoot on my lawn.
> 
> Waiting to find out how the owner will correct this


Welcome to TLF, glad to have you here. I'd talk to the owner, and ask them to bring enough finer sand out and cover up all the pebbles and topdress again. That job wouldn't fly at my place here. :evil:


----------



## SGrabs33

@turfman73 Welcome to the forum and sorry to see those pics. Hopefully they will come out and fix it for you but if not.....


----------



## jayhawk

Looks like they used river sand.


----------



## Flynt2799

Look what came in today....


----------



## kur1j

This amazes me at what some "professionals" do. This is also why I'm so damn skeptical at anything thst anyone that is an "expert" tells me.

Not just lawn stuff, but car work, construction work, tile work, brick work, electrical work, photography etc. I get so pissed at companies/people that bullshit me. I'm paying you as a service for your expertise to know more than me, to not yank my chain and lie to me and take advantage of me.

I need to get some electrical work done for some outdoor lighting. I really don't want to even go through the trouble of trying to find anyone because A) they will just rip me off B)Do a shitty job. I don't mind paying someone reasonable price for their work, but don't overcharge me, lie to me and then do a shitty job.

We own a condo about 3 hours away. The tenant was complaining that one of the outlets wasn't working. We call around for an electrician (recommend and good reviews) come out thinking it was going to be 150$ max for the service call and an over priced outlet. What did I get? A call saying I needed to replace every breaker, and every outlet and every switch in the house with "special" outlets because the wiring is old at at tune of 2700$. I was in rock and hardplace as it was a 100$ fee no matter what or 350 for him to replace that single outlet and I needed to fix it for the tenants. Basically a scam artist.

/endrant.

I feel for you. Sorry that happened and you have to deal with that bullshit.


----------



## Buddy

bassadict69 said:


> How much are you guys paying for mason sand? Having 12K sq ft just in my backyard, I cannot afford mason sand!


I just picked up some mason sand this past weekend, and I paid $14.50 a ton


----------



## w0lfe

OState_Patriot said:


> Any recommendations on a source for clean mason sand in OKC? I have used Dolese but still had pebbles.


Check out General Materials.... I've done a lot of calling around, and most of the companies that sell the sand, purchase it from General Materials and then mark the price up. They are fairly cheap on the sand as well


----------



## kur1j

@Buddy Damn thats cheap. Every place around me wants 40$+ for masonry sand.

Which leads me to a different question...everyone i talk to seems to want to recommend me use top dressing sand (riversand?). Its usually slightly more expensive for top dressing sand. They said it contains no rocks or pebbles. However, everyone arouns the forum here said they recommend masonry sand. Which should I be getting?


----------



## bandwgn09

The grass is growing and the temps high 80s during the day and high 50s at night. But as you can see I cut below the green leaf level. Go ahead and level or wait for some green up?


----------



## Tellycoleman

turfman73 said:


> Hired company to top dress, came home to this - I don't think it should have all these pebbles.
> 
> 
> 
> Am I screwed? Anyway to get rid of the pebbles? I assume this will tear up my TruCut. Can't walk around barefoot on my lawn.
> 
> Waiting to find out how the owner will correct this


Ohhh wowwww.
Ok so did you have any input on the kind of sand they were going to use? Did they ask you? I would have them rent a core collector or vacuum and suck up as much as they can and make it right. Please let us know how it turns out. Hey if they add a half inch or more of sand to cover it all up you will have the smoothest yard around. But if you agreed to river sand your screwed.


----------



## Mightyquinn

kur1j said:


> @Buddy Damn thats cheap. Every place around me wants 40$+ for masonry sand.
> 
> Which leads me to a different question...everyone i talk to seems to want to recommend me use top dressing sand (riversand?). Its usually slightly more expensive for top dressing sand. They said it contains no rocks or pebbles. However, everyone arouns the forum here said they recommend masonry sand. Which should I be getting?


I think it all depends on how much more expensive it is and whether you are willing to pay the premium over masonry sand. I don't think you can go wrong either way :thumbup:


----------



## Bunnysarefat

Leveling is a lot of work that's for sure. I work out 4 times a week and have a job where I'm on my feet all day, but this was pretty intense as a solo job.


----------



## kur1j

@Mightyquinn

Do you think this is reasonable top dressing leveling sand?

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1733&start=60#p53419


----------



## Ware

Bunnysarefat said:


>


 Smooth! :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Mightyquinn

kur1j said:


> @Mightyquinn
> 
> Do you think this is reasonable top dressing leveling sand?
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1733&start=60#p53419


It kind of looks like beach sand to me a little but other than that it looks good as I don't see any pebbles or small rocks in there. Do you have any more info on what kind of sand it is?


----------



## Bunnysarefat

Ware said:


> Bunnysarefat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth! :thumbup: :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Hard to see in pictures but there are some slight indulations on that hill. Hopefully I'll be able to work them out over time. I think a reel roller will help too. But I can't really complain.


----------



## kur1j

Mightyquinn said:


> kur1j said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Mightyquinn
> 
> Do you think this is reasonable top dressing leveling sand?
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1733&start=60#p53419
> 
> 
> 
> It kind of looks like beach sand to me a little but other than that it looks good as I don't see any pebbles or small rocks in there. Do you have any more info on what kind of sand it is?
Click to expand...

They call it "sand" haha. Call it top dressing leveling sand? They aren't specific on it.


----------



## Mightyquinn

I read your earlier posts about the sand in that thread and looks like decent stuff.


----------



## kur1j

@Mightyquinn Okay thanks! I just wanted to try and make sure before I get 6 yards of sand dumped in my driveway and it's unusable haha.

On a slightly different note i'm about 75-85% greener up after the scalp.


----------



## Tellycoleman

37,000 steps
Only those with step counters know the pain your feet are in right now.
Wowwwwwww


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Ware said:


> Bunnysarefat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smooth! :thumbup: :thumbup:
Click to expand...

When I do my leveling job on the yard, does this mean the Carlos Santana and Rob Thomas will come to my street to do an impromptu jam session in the road?

@Tellycoleman I know the pain that 20K steps brings. Anyone else on here with a FitBit, come join the TLF FitBit Group. I think that with that entry from yesterday, @Bunnysarefat might take my lead... maybe.


----------



## turfman73

Bunnysarefat said:


> Leveling is a lot of work that's for sure. I work out 4 times a week and have a job where I'm on my feet all day, but this was pretty intense as a solo job.


Very nice job!!

With that many steps you've earned the right to sit around and do nothing for a couple days


----------



## turfman73

Tellycoleman said:


> turfman73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hired company to top dress, came home to this - I don't think it should have all these pebbles.
> 
> 
> 
> Am I screwed? Anyway to get rid of the pebbles? I assume this will tear up my TruCut. Can't walk around barefoot on my lawn.
> 
> Waiting to find out how the owner will correct this
> 
> 
> 
> Ohhh wowwww.
> Ok so did you have any input on the kind of sand they were going to use? Did they ask you? I would have them rent a core collector or vacuum and suck up as much as they can and make it right. Please let us know how it turns out. Hey if they add a half inch or more of sand to cover it all up you will have the smoothest yard around. But if you agreed to river sand your screwed.
Click to expand...

I guess I should take some blame for not being very specific with the type of sand that should be used. When I discussed with the owner of the company what I was wanting it seemed we were on the same page. I met with him this morning and he accepted blame for the issue, basically miscommunication between him and his crew. We discussed the plan of action to fix this.

His crew spent most of the day vacuuming up what they could and working the rest of the pebbles down into the soil. While there was no way to get all the pebbles up, it looked much better than yesterday. He also agreed to use his equipment to mow my lawn until I was comfortable to use my TruCut again.

Once the yard recovers his crew will level the yard again this time using mason sand. I agree that if I can get 1/4"-1/2" of mason sand down it should cover the small pebbles.


----------



## Spammage

turfman73 said:


> He also agreed to use his equipment to mow my lawn until I was comfortable to use my TruCut again.


Should be some time around summer 2032. :wink:

Congrats on getting the assistance needed to correct the problem. Hopefully he will earn your trust, future business and referrals to friends/family.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

@turfman well good, sounds like he did the best that he could to remedy the situation as best as it could be given the circumstances. And now he knows what you expect, everything should work out in the future.


----------



## Flynt2799

Question...how often are you guys watering after leveling the lawn with sand? Or are you just keeping with the 1" per week rule?


----------



## Bunnysarefat

turfman73 said:


> Bunnysarefat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Leveling is a lot of work that's for sure. I work out 4 times a week and have a job where I'm on my feet all day, but this was pretty intense as a solo job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very nice job!!
> 
> With that many steps you've earned the right to sit around and do nothing for a couple days
Click to expand...

Yeah right, my wife is 8 and 1/2 months pregnant and we have two toddlers already. I'm not resting anytime soon.


----------



## Bunnysarefat

Flynt2799 said:


> Question...how often are you guys watering after leveling the lawn with sand? Or are you just keeping with the 1" per week rule?


+1 on this question. I'd like to know. I know it has been covered extensively on this forum but I know the good fellas will answer it one more time.

Put down 1lb of urea N and watered about .7 inches today. Gave it a nice soak and I'm very happy with how it's looking. Just a few spots need to be touched up but I have plenty left over.


----------



## Flynt2799

@Bunnysarefat lawn is looking good man. How much sand did you end up using on the 12k sqft?


----------



## Ware

Bunnysarefat said:


> Flynt2799 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Question...how often are you guys watering after leveling the lawn with sand? Or are you just keeping with the 1" per week rule?
> 
> 
> 
> +1 on this question. I'd like to know. I know it has been covered extensively on this forum but I know the good fellas will answer it one more time.
Click to expand...

I would increase watering a little to help overcome the stress of leveling. I wouldn't go crazy, but I wouldn't want a lack of water holding back the recovery - if that makes sense.


----------



## Flynt2799

Ware said:


> Bunnysarefat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flynt2799 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Question...how often are you guys watering after leveling the lawn with sand? Or are you just keeping with the 1" per week rule?
> 
> 
> 
> +1 on this question. I'd like to know. I know it has been covered extensively on this forum but I know the good fellas will answer it one more time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would increase watering a little to help overcome the stress of leveling. I wouldn't go crazy, but I wouldn't want a lack of water holding back the recovery - if that makes sense.
Click to expand...

Sounds about right. Plus I need to get my fertilizer on tomorrow so I can use that excuse to put another .25" down


----------



## Flynt2799

FYI.....If you putting sand down in the front lawn, kids will have the urge to walk and ride there bikes through it. Actually adults will to for that matter.


----------



## Alan

Flynt2799 said:


> FYI.....If you putting sand down in the front lawn, kids will have the urge to walk and ride there bikes through it. Actually adults will to for that matter.


Put up some crime scene tape. I can hear the convo now.

Neighbor(or kid): Did a crime occur here?
Homeowner: Oh, the tape?
Neighbor(or kid): Yeah!
Homeowner: No, no crime yet, but if someone rides their bike or gets in the sand, a crime is likely to occur. I'm being proactive.

:lol: :lol:


----------



## kur1j

Just ordered my 7.3cuyds of sand to do my first major leveling job. I got a little over 1cuyd per 1ksqft. Based off calculations I've seen online it should net me about 3/8-.5". A lot of people seemed to say they wish they had a slight but more sand for their large leveling jobs past the 1yd per 1ksqft, which I did, so I hope you are right :-D. Im actually pretty nervous about this haha.

I have my dump cart, my rake, my square shovel, and my dragmat ready. I'm prepared to be doing a lot of walking.

Anything else I should be prepared for?

How long after leveling should I be prepared to mow? If I get 3/8" that logically will raise the ground by that amount and cover up that much leaf/foliage. Should I be prepared to be mowing only a few days after? A week?


----------



## Alan

Get sunscreen, plenty of water to drink, a hat might be nice too.

I'd guess a couple weeks before you'd need to mow, but just a wild guess.


----------



## Flynt2799

kur1j said:


> Just ordered my 7.3cuyds of sand to do my first major leveling job. I got a little over 1cuyd per 1ksqft. Based off calculations I've seen online it should net me about 3/8-.5". A lot of people seemed to say they wish they had a slight but more sand for their large leveling jobs past the 1yd per 1ksqft, which I did, so I hope you are right :-D. Im actually pretty nervous about this haha.
> 
> I have my dump cart, my rake, my square shovel, and my dragmat ready. I'm prepared to be doing a lot of walking.
> 
> Anything else I should be prepared for?
> 
> How long after leveling should I be prepared to mow? If I get 3/8" that logically will raise the ground by that amount and cover up that much leaf/foliage. Should I be prepared to be mowing only a few days after? A week?


Sounds like you are good to go man. I second the water and sunscreen lol, I might be a little toasty now.

To give you an idea on sand, I have 2,722 of actual grass and I used every last bit of 4 yards. Had 3 delivered and had to go pick up 1 on my own. Can tell I will still need more after it finishes settling in for spot leveling. Good luck man!


----------



## kur1j

@Flynt2799 @Alan

Thanks! This might be a stupid question, but how do I know when I'm "done" other than running out of sand?


----------



## Flynt2799

kur1j said:


> Thanks! This might be a stupid question, but how do I know when I'm "done" other than running out of sand?


Man I just kept going over it with the push broom and drag mat wiring it in. This would show me where my low spots were and I would just add little bits at a time till it was as smooth as I could get. 7 shovel loads per pile seemed to be the best for me to work with. Spaces them out about a cart apart.


----------



## Movingshrub

kur1j said:


> @Flynt2799 @Alan
> 
> Thanks! This might be a stupid question, but how do I know when I'm "done" other than running out of sand?


When you run out of beer.


----------



## raldridge2315

Your never done.


----------



## TigerinFL

going to be leveling next weekend. telling the wife we are getting 4 yards when we are really getting 7 yards  :lol:


----------



## PokeGrande

:thumbsup:​


TigerinFL said:


> going to be leveling next weekend. telling the wife we are getting 4 yards when we are really getting 7 yards :lol:


----------



## dtillman5

I'm doing my first lawn level May 22nd. I have wheel barrow, rakes, shovels, brooms, and drag mat. I'm getting 4 yards (6 tons) for just under 4k sq ft. Doing the front only for now. 
I plan to rent a core aerator a day or two before and possibly a Power rake too.

I have a question. I'm planing to scalp to .5 inches. That's as low as I can go with the equipment I have. Lawn is currently 1.2". Is it going to slow my recovery taking more than half the blade off? Seems I would have more blade above grade in low spots if I left it a little longer or am I over thinking it? Added a couple pics of the lawn as it stands now.


----------



## Flynt2799

dtillman5 said:


> I'm doing my first lawn level May 22nd. I have wheel barrow, rakes, shovels, brooms, and drag mat. I'm getting 4 yards (6 tons) for just under 4k sq ft. Doing the front only for now.
> I plan to rent a core aerator a day or two before and possibly a Power rake too.
> 
> I have a question. I'm planing to scalp to .5 inches. That's as low as I can go with the equipment I have. Lawn is currently 1.2". Is it going to slow my recovery taking more than half the blade off? Seems I would have more blade above grade in low spots if I left it a little longer or am I over thinking it? Added a couple pics of the lawn as it stands now.


I would just go for it. You want it low as possible so you can really find your low spots. You will be stressing out the grass with the aerator and sanding already what's a little more. I did all of this and already seeing grass popping through 4 days later.


----------



## dtillman5

Thanks I appreciate the input!


----------



## Flynt2799

So how long are you guys waiting to mow after leveling? It has been a week and some areas were just getting to y'all that I had to bring the Mclane out. Some of the areas are still heavy with sand and I had to deal with ruts in some areas. But where the grass has pulled through it sure is looking nice.


----------



## Bunnysarefat

Why is this so incredibly satisfying?


----------



## Ware

Bunnysarefat said:


> Why is this so incredibly satisfying?


It is addictive for sure.


----------



## Cory

Flynt2799 said:


> So how long are you guys waiting to mow after leveling? It has been a week and some areas were just getting to y'all that I had to bring the Mclane out. Some of the areas are still heavy with sand and I had to deal with ruts in some areas. But where the grass has pulled through it sure is looking nice.


I waited about a week and a half before I mowed. I still have a bunch of thick areas but where I make ruts, I just go back with a broom and make them smooth again. I have mowed 6-8 times since I put the sand down 24 days ago


----------



## Flynt2799

Cory said:


> Flynt2799 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So how long are you guys waiting to mow after leveling? It has been a week and some areas were just getting to y'all that I had to bring the Mclane out. Some of the areas are still heavy with sand and I had to deal with ruts in some areas. But where the grass has pulled through it sure is looking nice.
> 
> 
> 
> I waited about a week and a half before I mowed. I still have a bunch of thick areas but where I make ruts, I just go back with a broom and make them smooth again. I have mowed 6-8 times since I put the sand down 24 days ago
Click to expand...

Thanks! Just wanted to make sure I wasn't screwing up all that hard work. Definitely found some spots that will need more work down the road, guess it's a never ending road though lol


----------



## Cory

Flynt2799 said:


> Definitely found some spots that will need more work down the road, guess it's a never ending road though lol


I have a bunch of spots to do over, mostly around the ditch but a lot along the driveway too. Definitely seems never ending. :nod:


----------



## Jvelasq2

Some great info on this site.

I just recently did a portion of my yard. 5CY of river sand on a very bumpy 2,500 sqft area.

April 28, 2018


April 28, 2018


April 29, 2018


May 6, 2018


May 13, 2018


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Jvelasq2 said:


> Some great info on this site.
> 
> I just recently did a portion of my yard. 5CY of river sand on a very bumpy 2,500 sqft area.


Nice work. Welcome to TLF, glad to have you here. Most people haven't had very good luck with the river sand, but that's probably because the ones who are doing it are using reels, which aren't very kind to the machine.


----------



## Ware

Welcome to TLF @Jvelasq2!


----------



## green is king 01

This looks like fairly new sod. How long since you put the sod in? Also, whats the difference in time from the third pic to the last pic? The reason I ask is I am planning to level my bermuda sod that was put in a couple months ago. It's very bumpy as well. Just trying to get a feel for how much sand I can put on it without smothering or killing? I know some are laughing because I mentioned "killing" bermuda...haha


----------



## bandwgn09

Does anyone know anyplace that rents out drag mats? I only have about 1k sq feet and i would rather not spend $100 or more on a one time use tool.
thank you


----------



## Jvelasq2

You are correct, this sod was installed in the fall. As for the sand, I placed it on April 28th and the last picture was taken May 13th.


----------



## green is king 01

Thanks! One more question Jvelasq2- How low did you mow the grass before you top dressed? Looks like it's recovering well.
Thanks!


----------



## Jvelasq2

I have been mowing it at 1.5".


----------



## raldridge2315

bandwgn09 said:


> Does anyone know anyplace that rents out drag mats? I only have about 1k sq feet and i would rather not spend $100 or more on a one time use tool.
> thank you


You might check with the people who keep the little league and softball fields and see if they would let you borrow one. For that small of an area, you could also just use a 36" landscape rake and a stiff push broom.


----------



## Movingshrub

@Jvelasq2

Have you had any issue with seedheads from your TifTuf? Mine entire yard has been covered with them.


----------



## Cory

Movingshrub said:


> @Jvelasq2
> 
> Have you had any issue with seedheads from your TifTuf? Mine entire yard has been covered with them.


I do. Not sure which variety of tif I have, was just told it was tifway by the builder, but mine has tons of seed heads popping up all over.


----------



## Jvelasq2

I don't think I've really ever given it a chance to grow enough to show seedheads.


----------



## Cory

Jvelasq2 said:


> I don't think I've really ever given it a chance to grow enough to show seedheads.


Been cutting mine at 0.625" every two days, they are coming out almost horizontally.


----------



## SGrabs33

@Cory Most likely TifWay 419 as that's the cheapest variety around here.


----------



## bandwgn09

The bottom picture is after scalping 8 days ago the top picture is from yesterday. Does it look like it has recovered enough to go ahead and level? Maybe add some fertilizer and wait another week?


----------



## rhanna

Jvelasq2 said:


> Some great info on this site.
> 
> I just recently did a portion of my yard. 5CY of river sand on a very bumpy 2,500 sqft area.
> 
> April 28, 2018
> 
> 
> April 28, 2018
> 
> 
> April 29, 2018
> 
> 
> May 6, 2018
> 
> 
> May 13, 2018


This is the type of leveling I think I need. It looks like you practically buried a decent amount of Bermuda. How often did you water in those 2 weeks? How level is it now?


----------



## Jvelasq2

Some areas had over an inch of sand on them. I have watered every other day and have had one heavy downpour. It is far from "reel mower smooth" but it is definitely on its way. &#128077;


----------



## Colonel K0rn

bandwgn09 said:


> The bottom picture is after scalping 8 days ago the top picture is from yesterday. Does it look like it has recovered enough to go ahead and level? Maybe add some fertilizer and wait another week?


I'd hit it with at least 1# of N and wait until you have some more green.


----------



## bandwgn09

@Colonel K0rn Ok to hit it with 1# now and 1# after leveling? What fert ratio would you recommend?


----------



## Colonel K0rn

How large is your lawn? If you're at say 10K sqft, then you could use a 23-0-0 and it should treat the whole lot with that 50# bag. I bought a bag of 46-0-0, put out half of the bag and got a little over 1.5#N/M when the math came up.

Personally, I like the Lesco product that has some biosolids in it to give it some slow-release feeding as well since you've got complete coverage with turfgrass right now. You can smell the scent of victory when you open the bag


----------



## bandwgn09

I'm only at 1k sq ft. 
I know I'm supposed to fertilize after leveling. I'm just concerned if I fertilize with a high N fertilizer before and after it might be too much and burn the lawn.


----------



## raldridge2315

bandwgn09 said:


> I'm only at 1k sq ft.
> I know I'm supposed to fertilize after leveling. I'm just concerned if I fertilize with a high N fertilizer before and after it might be too much and burn the lawn.


It needs nitrogen. Water will keep it from burning. Lots of water.


----------



## Cigar_Fiend

I am new here and still reading (a lot) and learning. I am FULL of questions, so please bare with me.

Are you guys calculating the amount of sand needed by using the 1.4 ton = 1 Cubic Yard calculation? I am planning on doing my front yard, my back yard and my neighbor's front yard. I know I have a decent amount of math and work ahead... but how do I know how much to buy when I have all of my square footage of the yards calculated? How thick of a sand bed will this lay down?

Also... I am here in the OKC area and I have called General Materials here in OKC to ask about masonry sand. I also called their partner for hauling and delivering sand A&A Trucking. For a full load of 16.5 tons of masonry sand they are asking $310. Jenny (at A&A) said she went with a FULL truck load and that I can deduct $12.23/ton to get to where I need to be on the amount of sand. It seems like some decent pricing... anyone have any experience with them?


----------



## bandwgn09

@raldridge2315 
Thanks. 
The guy at the store said to use ammonium sulfate 21-0-0. That sound ok or should I put down a 21-2-4 or what would you recommend?


----------



## raldridge2315

bandwgn09 said:


> @raldridge2315
> Thanks.
> The guy at the store said to use ammonium sulfate 21-0-0. That sound ok or should I put down a 21-2-4 or what would you recommend?


That will be fine. If you can shop at a farm supply/ feed and fert supply or farm co-op, then ammonium sulfate 21-0-0 is what you want. .... and water it as soon as you put it down.


----------



## Strohkin

hello everyone,

just recently bought my first house and have enjoyed reading this forum to learn more about warm season lawn care... I've dealt with st augustine my whole life here in South Florida and finally get the opportunity to have what I've always wanted, bermuda. I've started a 500sqft test area with princess 77 that wasnt sodded when I moved to the house. I threw seed a week and a half ago and didn't find this forum until after the fact. would have been nice to know how to better level then, but I digress.

on to the topic of this thread. now that I know masonry sand is what I need to level, I started calling around the area and I have been destroyed by prices of masonry sand down here. cheapest I found was a place that wouldnt sell less than a full truck load (something like 18ish yds?) was 30$ a yd. otherwise the other best price with no minimum weight was 45$ a yd but they're far so it was 145 to deliver. the closest place to me for 85$ delivery was 57$ a yard.. reading about all you guys and your yardage prices makes me jealous. going to have to take a different approach to planing this st Aug to bermuda conversion.

good job everyone on your lawns!

Cameron


----------



## Adrian82

raldridge2315 said:


> bandwgn09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know anyplace that rents out drag mats? I only have about 1k sq feet and i would rather not spend $100 or more on a one time use tool.
> thank you
> 
> 
> 
> You might check with the people who keep the little league and softball fields and see if they would let you borrow one. For that small of an area, you could also just use a 36" landscape rake and a stiff push broom.
Click to expand...

I have a pallet that I took from an uncle. I will borrow a neighbors riding mower to drag it around.


----------



## WolfmanC18

Tomorrow is going to be a long day...


----------



## Flynt2799

WolfmanC18 said:


> Tomorrow is going to be a long day...


----------



## raymond

&#128514;


----------



## WolfmanC18

Done. It went about as I expected. My yard was already fairly flat, but I did have a few areas I covered the grass. I'm sure it will grow through, or cover quickly.

I'm beat though. That makes for a long day.


----------



## SGrabs33

@WolfmanC18 Nice work! Looking forward to seeing how fast it comes through.


----------



## Topcat

+1


----------



## TigerinFL

good job. lucky you got a lawn tractor for that drag mat.


----------



## Tellycoleman

@WolfmanC18 did you do all 15K of your lawn?? If so you deserve a medal. How much sand did you use?
From the looks of your driveway you had to spread it down you couldnt leave your house.


----------



## Tellycoleman

Has anyone ever scheduled a lawn leveling with the rebound growth from PGR? Most studies I've seen show up to 130% rebound growth peaking at 450-500 GDD for primo max. Almost 180% rebound with primo+ pacLo (600GDD peak) That plus ammonium sulfate might be a good recipe for fast coverage.


----------



## WolfmanC18

Tellycoleman said:


> @WolfmanC18 did you do all 15K of your lawn?? If so you deserve a medal. How much sand did you use?
> From the looks of your driveway you had to spread it down you couldnt leave your house.


I only did the front 5200 sqft. I had 6 yards delivered, and had about 1 yard left over when I was done. I'm spending this growing season figuring out what works and what doesn't with my yard, and then determining if I want to put that much effort into all 15k sqft next year. For now, I'm reel mowing the front at 0.5" and the back is being done with a rotary at about 1.25".

Oh, and we have a circle drive, so I didn't block the entry. My wife would have been livid if I did that. I also made sure to have the dump truck drop the sand at the highest point of my yard. That way, all full cart loads of sand were going downhill.


----------



## green is king 01

So I'm in the home stretch of planning for my first sand leveling project. I have ordered the tools (landscape rake, leveling rake, and drag mat). I plan to do the first leveling (1/2 to 1 inch max) when the weather dries up. Now to my question for those experienced "levelers". I have read of some people scalping as short as possible before leveling and I've read of others not scalping to allow for enough grass to "poke" through the sand after leveling to promote recovery/not smoother the grass. I'm still not sure which approach I should take. I am currently mowing at ~1 inch due to amount of bumps in the lawn. My sod was laid (dormant) 2 months ago. It is however now actively growing. I can barely keep it cut! What are you guys thoughts on this? Scalp, or keep at 1 inch when leveling?


----------



## Flynt2799

Backyard is coming along nicely!

5/8



5/22 post cut


----------



## Cigar_Fiend

That looks great!


----------



## Suaverc118

I plan on leveling next week. I also plan on having someone come and aerate. What order do I need for this to work properly? I was thinking...
1) aerate lawn (how soon after should I scalp?)
2)"scalp" lawn (currently mow at notch 2 and will drop to notch 1)
3) level lawn
4) fertilize
5) water daily???
Lastly, I have PGR, when can I apply this

Here are current pics of my lawn. I'm loving how it's thickening up and sad that I will "destroy" it temporarily.


----------



## Flynt2799

Suaverc118 said:


> I plan on leveling next week. I also plan on having someone come and aerate. What order do I need for this to work properly? I was thinking...
> 1) aerate lawn (how soon after should I scalp?)
> 2)"scalp" lawn (currently mow at notch 2 and will drop to notch 1)
> 3) level lawn
> 4) fertilize
> 5) water daily???
> Lastly, I have PGR, when can I apply this
> 
> Here are current pics of my lawn. I'm loving how it's thickening up and sad that I will "destroy" it temporarily.


If I were you I would scalp before you aerate. This should give you deeper holes. Your grass is already short but should still help. I would also plan on trying to pick up or bag as many of the plugs as you can. When I was leveling with sand I found the cores that I was unable to get became a pain with the drag mat.


----------



## dtillman5

Question: I just did my first level of my lawn yesterday about 4K. I had 4 yards of sand delivered. I Aerated and scalped the lawn down to 5/8" on May 19. I got the sand put out everywhere yesterday, pushed it around with rake's, then pulled a drag mat over it all a bunch of times. Next hit it with push brooms to work it into the canopy. After the broom the sand had mostly disappeared below the grass. I've noticed others who seem to use a drag mat last and theirs looks a lot more covered than mine did. Is it because my grass was longer > 5/8" that it looks like the sand was swallowed up by the lawn? Just wondering if I over did the broom?


----------



## SGrabs33

@dtillman5 It most likely looks swallowed because of you HOC. Extra grooming is never bad, it just means that it makes its way further down into the canopy faster :thumbup:


----------



## green is king 01

I would think you would want the sand to fall as deep as possible. It sounds like you could have used more sand. Did you use 4 yards for 8K sq ft?


----------



## dtillman5

green is king 01 said:


> I would think you would want the sand to fall as deep as possible. It sounds like you could have used more sand. Did you use 4 yards for 8K sq ft?


 I used 4 yards for 4K sq ft.



SGrabs33 said:


> @dtillman5 It most likely looks swallowed because of you HOC. Extra grooming is never bad, it just means that it makes its way further down into the canopy faster :thumbup:


 thanks for the sanity check.


----------



## Suaverc118

@Flynt2799 , that sounds smart. Also, how long after leveling should I apply fertilizer? I assume I can just spread the fertilizer right over the sand once I'm done leveling. And when should I spray the PGR?


----------



## Flynt2799

Suaverc118 said:


> , that sounds smart. Also, how long after leveling should I apply fertilizer? I assume I can just spread the fertilizer right over the sand once I'm done leveling. And when should I spray the PGR?


I put down fertilizer right after I finished with the sand and watered it all in real good. PGR is way over my head, have t tackled that beast yet.


----------



## CenlaLowell

Got a question related to this. I will level my yard this summer and u was wondering would leveling a St Augustine lawn be any different? St Augustine does not like low cuts so should I keep it high and try this?


----------



## Txmx583

Will cushion sand work? I've got a few qotes in masonry sand and it's really expensive. If not what types can I use? This stuff looks good but wanted to check first.


----------



## Txmx583

Anyone? Just don't want to spend $400 for dirt for my 6k sqft lawn.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Looks like a fairly good size, and price is comparable to what I've gotten quotes on masonry sand for here. I was able to put my hands on the sand I'm interested in, and it has no pebbles. It's a good small grain.


----------



## elm34

Txmx583 said:


> Will cushion sand work? I've got a few qotes in masonry sand and it's really expensive. If not what types can I use? This stuff looks good but wanted to check first.


Did you give Fort Worth Grass and Stone a call? They have screened sand on their website http://www.fortworthgrass.com/screened-sand


----------



## Txmx583

elm34 said:


> Txmx583 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will cushion sand work? I've got a few qotes in masonry sand and it's really expensive. If not what types can I use? This stuff looks good but wanted to check first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you give Fort Worth Grass and Stone a call? They have screened sand on their website http://www.fortworthgrass.com/screened-sand
Click to expand...

No I haven't, I'll check them out thanks!! The cushion sand in the add is local in ft worth. The guy said it is sifted and I can come take a look at it. Does it need to look like play sand or finer? Not really sure what to look for other than large stones or pebbles.


----------



## oldglory2105

Take a look at Silver Creek Materials as well. They're gaining a good reputation over this way.


----------



## Bunnysarefat

oldglory2105 said:


> Take a look at Silver Creek Materials as well. They're gaining a good reputation over this way.


I used silver creek and had a good experience. I used them to get some sand/compost mix (75/25%) and it was a "cushion sand" that was used. As far as the sand itself, I'd say that would work for leveling. Every place is different and may call label things differently. If you have the opportunity to see the material before you buy it, definitely worth it if you're trying to get a better deal on a non-conventional leveling sand. From best I can tell, many types of sand will work. People usually go masonry because it's like a sure bet, but if you're going outside of that best to check if you can and get your hands on the stuff.


----------



## Txmx583

The place is actually silver creek materials haha. I saw the add on Facebook market for sand and contacted the guy. I'm not sure if he works there or what the deal is, but he told me i could go by there and check it out. Then let him know if I wanted it.


----------



## Ral1121

Question

When leveling in the middle of summer, do you change how you water the lawn? Or do you stick the the deep and infrequent waterings of 1-1.5 inches a week?


----------



## Tellycoleman

Ral1121 said:


> Question
> 
> When leveling in the middle of summer, do you change how you water the lawn? Or do you stick the the deep and infrequent waterings of 1-1.5 inches a week?


I would water more often to push /encourage growth.


----------



## Ral1121

Tellycoleman said:


> Ral1121 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Question
> 
> When leveling in the middle of summer, do you change how you water the lawn? Or do you stick the the deep and infrequent waterings of 1-1.5 inches a week?
> 
> 
> 
> I would water more often to push /encourage growth.
Click to expand...

I guess it's hand watering for me then. I can only use my system once a week because of water restrictions


----------



## bandwgn09

Going to level my lawn tomorrow and the supply store has two types of sand I can use. The first they call "plaster sand" the granuals are very fine like a golf course sand. The problem may be it looks like it will have a tendency to clump up. (Top pic). The other choice is "arena sand". Says that it's washed and the granuals are bigger, but not big, and doesn't clump as much. What would be my best choice?


----------



## Thor865

Today is the day


----------



## Flynt2799

Thor865 said:


> Today is the day


Good luck man. Sunscreen water and lots of sweat in your near future!


----------



## Ware

Thor865 said:


> Today is the day


----------



## Cigar_Fiend




----------



## Thor865

Complete! A workout for sure. It was just me spreading the sand but I had helpers loading.


----------



## SGrabs33

Thor865 said:


> Complete! A workout for sure. It was just me spreading the sand but I had helpers loading.


Welp. That made it look pretty easy :thumbup:


----------



## Cigar_Fiend

How many tons did you use?


----------



## Thor865

Cigar_Fiend said:


> How many tons did you use?


I used about 7 tons for approx 5k sqft


----------



## JRS 9572

I'll share what I did Memorial Day Weekend. When you see my front and side yard there's no "leveling" it. Rather making a smooth slope.

Super Sod is a large regional sod farm (Carolina's, Georgia, and maybe Tennessee.) A few years ago they started using their grass clippings from the sod farm, along with wheat straw, and manure from a dairy to make a composting mix. They do all the treatment, inoculation, turning it over regularly. It's a a great deal to put down. They also have what I bought called "Soil3Level Mix" which is 30% of the soil 3 compost and 70% sand. I feel like the soil 3 part is important because in this part of the midlands of SC I have nothing but red clay. So improving the soil is really good for the health of the sod. Here's a little video about how they make it. 




These guys recommend 1 "super sack" or cubic yard per 1,000 square feet. I bought four bags. Each bag is $178.00 and that includes delivery from the sod farm if I remember right. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about bag wise. You can see it in the right of the picture.



I had someone else aerate earlier in the week. I also needed to verticut. I rented the ole de-thatcher and a walk behind blower. Man the $50 for the walk behind blower was well worth the expense. It sure saved time as we would have been all day raking it out. We used the blower to blow all the thatch to the street after it was brought up. Then raked and swept it up into bags for our trash service to take off on lawn debris day. Here's some pics. I had my son and two neighbor teenagers I paid to help. I would've dropped dead if not for them. It was raining intermittently and it was hot as a skillet.





After clean up of thatch we started putting the level mix out. We used a compost spreader, which looks like a lawn roller but perforated, to spread the level mix. We covered in one direction, then drug it with a drag mat. Then spread it in the opposited direction and drug it.







Here's a link to the spreader I am talking about. I assume you could use it for pure sand as well. As thick as I see some put it down it might take forever. With the four of us together just the putting down the level mix, and dragging it in, took us a little over 2 hours.

https://www.amazon.com/Seymour-85755-Compost-Spreader-24/dp/B00G8RB1MU

Here's the drag mat I use to pull behind a lawn tractor.

https://www.amazon.com/Nelco-All-Steel-Drag-Mat/dp/B0000BYRQD/ref=zg_bs_5680518011_20?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=23JWVJQH3QDPFC93NWP3

So here's what the finished product looked like the day of after watering a full 1" of water.



And here is this past Saturday after 1" week.



Only problem I have is yellow stalks for seed heads. My reel mower is having some issues. It needs to be backlapped and the tension on the drive belt adjusted. I am also starting PGR very soon. Ordered the sprayer and the PGR liquid today.


----------



## Ware

JRS 9572 said:


> I'll share what I did Memorial Day Weekend...


Looks great! :thumbsup:


----------



## Ral1121

Well got this started today. It's really hot too just so you know


----------



## Ware

Ral1121 said:


> Well got this started today. It's really hot too just so you know


 :thumbup:


----------



## Ral1121

And I just finished. Was not too bad. I only did my front yard which is about 1000 sq ft. Used just less than 1 yard of sand.


----------



## kur1j

You must have some pretty level lawn already! Looks good! How did you spread the clumps around?


----------



## Ral1121

@kur1j 
I used a push broom instead of the landscape rake. The rake kept on digging into the ground. Once I got it spread somewhat evenly with the broom, I let it sit for a bit so the sun could dry out the sand ( thanks for the tip @Killbuzz ) then I took a drag to it. With the sand dried out everything fell into the canopu better and it did not clump up on the drag mat. I was also able to pick out what few rocks I found at this point. Sand was good quality. When I went back for my second load I think they dug into the ground a bit when scooping it up.


----------



## kur1j

@Ral1121 Awesome! Glad to hear. That's a good tip about it letting it dry out. I'm certain utilitize that.


----------



## Adrian82

I leveled under 1K today with some Mason sand loaded into a small pickup. 
1. I have a whole new level of respect for individuals leveling large yards.
2. I now know that I will have to order sand by the cubic bag and have them strategically placed.
3. Lawns devour sand because the load disappears quickly.


----------



## cnet24

Adrian82 said:


> I leveled under 1K today with some Mason sand loaded into a small pickup.
> 1. I have a whole new level of respect for individuals leveling large yards.
> 2. I now know that I will have to order sand by the cubic bag and have them strategically placed.
> 3. Lawns devour sand because the load disappears quickly.


Where did you get the sand in Lawrenceville?


----------



## Bunnysarefat

Adrian82 said:


> I have a whole new level of respect for individuals leveling large yards.



Yeah 9 yards of sand uphill to the backyard was no joke. I'll probably do it again but can't say I'm looking forward to it this time.


----------



## Ral1121

How soon after you level do you mow. It's only been a couple days but I already have a lot coming through where if I wait till the end of the week some part will be really long. If I mow right now, I will have to probably add sand again and drag as well all over.


----------



## Flynt2799

Ral1121 said:


> How soon after you level do you mow. It's only been a couple days but I already have a lot coming through where if I wait till the end of the week some part will be really long. If I mow right now, I will have to probably add sand again and drag as well all over.


I just looked back at my photos and I did my fisrts cut 6 days after leveling. After the first mow I used the drag mat to smooth everything back out from me walking on it as well as the tracks from the mower. But moving forward I found it best to use a push broom. The drag mat has a tendency to pull up new stolons trying to spread out.


----------



## Ral1121

Flynt2799 said:


> Ral1121 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How soon after you level do you mow. It's only been a couple days but I already have a lot coming through where if I wait till the end of the week some part will be really long. If I mow right now, I will have to probably add sand again and drag as well all over.
> 
> 
> 
> I just looked back at my photos and I did my fisrts cut 6 days after leveling. After the first mow I used the drag mat to smooth everything back out from me walking on it as well as the tracks from the mower. But moving forward I found it best to use a push broom. The drag mat has a tendency to pull up new stolons trying to spread out.
Click to expand...

I am thinking about waiting that long. I might have areas at 1.5 inches though which means I will be scalping. I might just do it anyways to reset my hoc. I am hoping I can go lower


----------



## Suaverc118

Here is my dilemma... I put some milorgonite and about .50 lb per sq ft of some fertilizer a week ago because my grass needed it badly. I'm going to level this Friday... Can I put some more fertilizer down after leveling and if so, what kind of granular? My soil pH was about 7.5 if that helps

Also, I'm having a little issue with grass shedding or dying, but still plenty of green. Some have suggested dethatch NG instead of aerating if I had to choose one over the other due to time. Next week we are expecting a lot of rain so now would be good for it to get watered in. I scalped twice in mod/late February and used my steel rake to pull up a lot of dead stolons and grass. Here are some pics of my situation. You can see what my lawn looks like, but in certain areas up close you can see some small pieces of brown grass that you can just pull the tops off or if you get a good grab, you can pull the whole thing out. So this is my dilemma with the amount of time I have. Thanks


----------



## Suaverc118

Well, it looks like I won't be able to aerate my lawn before the leveling. I've been so busy and couldn't get anyone to come out this week. So my question now is after I "scalp" my lawn, how long should I wait before doing this?


----------



## Suaverc118

Mowed at the lowest level of my rotary which is 1" vs my normal mowing height of 1.5". I plan to put the masonry sand out Friday morning. When I mowed at 1" last year, I had a bunch of dirt and the lawn looked like I was going to lose it. Now this time of the year it looks so much better. I had to mow normal height and then lower and mow at 1", because the first time I just dropped it like it's hot and it messed up the grass. You can see that in the middle part of the front yard and by the stop sign. You would think some of those brown spots would be high spots in the yard, but they are not, I believe they were just longer and took a hit with the mow.
Anyways, Fridays the day!! 
Thoughts??


----------



## Jamie Adams

Hey Guys, 
great thread so far. 
This past weekend June 9 2018, I embarked on my second leveling project on my roughly 10,000sqft Tiffway 419 lawn. 
I am still using a rotary mower so I mowed down to lowest setting which is roughly 1". I plugged the hell out of the lawn and laid heavy nitrogen granular fert. 
The first year (2016) I had 10 tons of creeksand and compost mix 80/20 delivered and spread using wheelbarrow and push brooms. This was incredibly difficult and took a full 2 days to complete. I didnt really like the creek sand, I have since read that the rough structure of builders sand is better to prevent compaction. I had really good results from this for the rest of the growing season but still couldnt mow as low as i would like. My primary objective for this project was to correct the gaps in the sod that was laid by the builder the previous fall. (October 2015)
Fast forward a season to this year, I had 16 tons of builders Sand and compost 80/20 mix delivered. I still used a wheelbarrow to spread the mix throughout the yard. I used a pallet as a DIY dragmat, which worked relatively well. This year i was after some of the more serious depressions, which i think the pallet worked well to accomplish. 
Right now, I am anxious to mow again but with my rotary I am a bit reluctant. There is about 25% green-up, but for those other areas I'm afraid it will disturb my hard work and the sand will likely dull, if not destroy, my blade. This is even more motivation to pull the trigger on the reel mower I have been eyeing. Cheers guys, glad to be apart of this community.







Here is pictures from my 2016 project


----------



## Alan

Great job! Welcome to TLF.


----------



## Cigar_Fiend

My yard also has a natural slope to it, similar to yours Jamie. Have you noticed any of the sand flowing to the lower aspect of the yard as you water or as it rains? The slope makes me worry that there will be spots that don't benefit from the sand if it makes it's way down the slope.


----------



## Flynt2799

Cigar_Fiend said:


> My yard also has a natural slope to it, similar to yours Jamie. Have you noticed any of the sand flowing to the lower aspect of the yard as you water or as it rains? The slope makes me worry that there will be spots that don't benefit from the sand if it makes it's way down the slope.


I have a slight slope to my front yard, nowhere near Jamie's. I have noticed a few spots where the sand has slowly washed out, then we had a downpour of 4" in an hour and that really recked my front lawn. Woke up to sand all over the sidewalk and road 

Regular irrigation and mild rain should be fine, just hope no fully washers come through.


----------



## Cigar_Fiend

That's what I'm worried about Flynt. My back yard backs up to a neighborhood pond and my lawn slopes toward it for drainage. I desperately want to top dress the back yard, but I don't want it to end up making the area around the pond nicer than my yard...🤣🤣. The pond is just behind the 'dog window' I made so they can see the ducks.


----------



## Flynt2799

@Cigar_Fiend your grass looks thick so you should be good. I really tore mine up, scalped, dethatched, aerated and topped it off with sand. The lawn was bare bones when I put sand down so it had nothing to hold it in. I feel like my second go round will have better results since the lawn has filled in.


----------



## Suaverc118

I finally did mine. It looks nothing like y'all's because this is my first level job. I had low areas that were an inch or more. I didn't get to aerate because I just didn't have time, but purchased this stuff here in the picture. I added this to my fertilizer.


----------



## Flynt2799

@Suaverc118 looks good!


----------



## Ware

Flynt2799 said:


> Suaverc118 looks good!


+1 :thumbup:


----------



## Suaverc118

Thanks fellas. Apparently this has some liquid aeration??? Or maybe I misunderstood, but he mentioned it helps with it. Oh, and this lawn took me 6 hours!!! Part of that was after the first 2 hours I needed like a 2-3 minute break from the sun. It was brutal.
The lawn looks better height wise, but obviously not even. How soon can I apply more sand? And I would assume to lower my cut height a notch again?


----------



## Flynt2799

@Suaverc118 ya the heat is a killer. I would wait for the sand to settle a little more as well as the grass to push through before adding anymore. Hopefully you will see some of of this rain this week and that should help with pushing it down into the low spots.


----------



## Suaverc118

Flynt2799 said:


> @Suaverc118 ya the heat is a killer. I would wait for the sand to settle a little more as well as the grass to push through before adding anymore. Hopefully you will see some of of this rain this week and that should help with pushing it down into the low spots.


That's one of the reasons why I did it yesterday, was because of the rain coming in. I was thinking or wondering of waiting a month was the average time to do it again.


----------



## Ral1121

Suaverc118 said:


> Flynt2799 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Suaverc118 ya the heat is a killer. I would wait for the sand to settle a little more as well as the grass to push through before adding anymore. Hopefully you will see some of of this rain this week and that should help with pushing it down into the low spots.
> 
> 
> 
> That's one of the reasons why I did it yesterday, was because of the rain coming in. I was thinking or wondering of waiting a month was the average time to do it again.
Click to expand...

What I have been doing is as the grass grows through and I mow, I continue to add more sand and do more of a spot level in certain areas. I have extra sand piled up in a wheel barrel and a few buckets. I will continue to do this until I am happy or run out of time this season. I try and do only one major leveling project every summer.


----------



## Suaverc118

Ral1121 said:


> Suaverc118 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flynt2799 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Suaverc118 ya the heat is a killer. I would wait for the sand to settle a little more as well as the grass to push through before adding anymore. Hopefully you will see some of of this rain this week and that should help with pushing it down into the low spots.
> 
> 
> 
> That's one of the reasons why I did it yesterday, was because of the rain coming in. I was thinking or wondering of waiting a month was the average time to do it again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What I have been doing is as the grass grows through and I mow, I continue to add more sand and do more of a spot level in certain areas. I have extra sand piled up in a wheel barrel and a few buckets. I will continue to do this until I am happy or run out of time this season. I try and do only one major leveling project every summer.
Click to expand...

Good idea!!! I can't wait for the day where I can just lay it on the lawn and it covers it like a blanket like others here.


----------



## erdons

Added 1/2 yard of sand on Tuesday, gave it a cut today because it was getting long in a lot of areas. I need to go buy a new weed wacker and edger.

Day 1 


Day 6


----------



## Suaverc118

So this is 6 days since my level and was wondering if I should keep waiting or try something in that area? This was my first mow and That was one of the lowest spots. Any advice from those who have leveled would be great.. @Ware 
@Mightyquinn




My wife bought me UV 50 shirts and a hat and glasses






The last 2 pictures show how much more leveled the side is. I am most proud of that part of the lawn. It looks so good.


----------



## Ware

Suaverc118 said:


> So this is 6 days since my level and was wondering if I should keep waiting or try something in that area?


It's looking good. Just keep mowing when it needs it - it will fill in. :thumbsup:


----------



## Suaverc118

Thanks brother @Ware


----------



## Flynt2799

I agree, just give it time. I had some pretty large bare areas after dethatch it and pulling crud from the soil(might make sure nothing is in there like a brick or bottle). 
5/22

6/9

Today


Runners have really taken ahold of the area that still looks bare so I'm hoping tha in another week or two I won't see sand. Currently mowing every 2-3 days depending on my shifts and rain.


----------



## Suaverc118

Thanks @Flynt2799


----------



## Suaverc118

Mines starting to come in... But it's not thick like it was before yet. I put about 1 lb of nitrogen per 1k two Fridays ago. When can I put some more out?


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

That looks great! I'm waiting for mine to come in more so I can mow. It was done last Friday so maybe this Friday but maybe next. We'll see. How long did you wait to mow the first time?


----------



## Suaverc118

@Bermuda_Newbie , I waited 1 week. It was growing quick, just not filling in. But I mowed and got back on my normal.mowing every 3-4 days and it's thickening. Today I hot more sand than my last mow so maybe I didn't water enough in the last few days.


----------



## Two9tene

wardconnor said:


> I did a portion of my cool season lawn last labor day September 3, 2016. I did about 15k feet with about 20 ton of sand. I'm not sure how many yards that equates to.
> 
> A portion was hit with a skid steer to spread huge pile left by dump truck. It ended up leaving a few ruts that you can kind of see in this picture on the left. I was not able to remedy the ruts completely last fall so plan on doing another round here shortly when I'm fully green and vigorous.
> 
> This is the second time I've leveled. My yard started out fairly flat to begin with but not flat enough for my standards. All in all I've spread around 40 tons of sand. I pay 22$ or 26$(can't remember) per ton delivered. It's golf course quality sand that is shipped/trucked for hundreds miles to courses. I'm lucky that it's 30 miles from me.
> 
> I aerated and discarded cores before the last leveling project. The aerification and core collection was a major task to say the least.
> 
> One thing I can not stress enough at least for me is that it's a multi year endeavor. Reason being is that you can only add so much sand at once without smothering turf. I figure it's about one quarter to one half inch. This being *** PRG.
> 
> I also overseeded when top dressed.
> 
> Greens mowers help flatten out the surface because of the roller.
> 
> Next time I top dress I'll be sure to document better.
> 
> My neighbors think I'm crazy but the one across the street likes it because he says it's nice to look at from the chair on his porch.
> 
> 9/3/16
> 
> 
> 10/15/16


@Ware also,

Question for both of you gentlemen. How soon after you leveled did you start mowing again? I am concerned I will be compacting the sand in the low spots and just not sure when I should give her a good mow! Also, you guys made leveling look easy with the magic of YouTube videos! However, let this serve as a disclaimer for most out there that are continplating a leveling job, especially on your own! This was the most labor intensive thing I have ever done in my life! I am in the Army and I have never done anything remotely as intense as leveling 5k sq ft with 12 tons of sand/soil mix!


----------



## Ware

Two9tene said:


> ...Question for both of you gentlemen. How soon after you leveled did you start mowing again? I am concerned I will be compacting the sand in the low spots and just not sure when I should give her a good mow! Also, you guys made leveling look easy with the magic of YouTube videos! However, let this serve as a disclaimer for most out there that are continplating a leveling job, especially on your own! This was the most labor intensive thing I have ever done in my life! I am in the Army and I have never done anything remotely as intense as leveling 5k sq ft with 12 tons of sand/soil mix!


I know this sounds vague, but I just started mowing again when it looked like it needed it. I wasn't afraid to break the "1/3 rule" early on while the bermuda was still a little leggy though. Ideally you would just let it grow into whatever your target HOC is going to be.


----------



## Two9tene

@Ware ,

Thank you brother! I really do appreciate the information and assistance you have put together with this forum. Quick question where can I find your TLF merchandise?

Respectfully,
Jason B.


----------



## Ware

Two9tene said:


> ...Quick question where can I find your TLF merchandise?


TLF Logo Merchandise :thumbup:


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

Two9tene said:


> I am concerned I will be compacting the sand in the low spots and just not sure when I should give her a good mow!


I had the same question. I'm concerned about hurting my new (used) mower. It comes back from the sharpener on Friday and it will have been one week since it was done. I fertilized on Tuesday. It still has some good patches of sand. A lot of people around here said a week. Hopefully it won't hurt the mower. We'll see! Can you post when you decide to mow?


----------



## Steverino

@Suaverc118 I like the pavers in the bed edges. Cutting deep bed edges like that area is no easy chore either! Your yard is looking great. :thumbup:


----------



## Two9tene

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> Two9tene said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am concerned I will be compacting the sand in the low spots and just not sure when I should give her a good mow!
> 
> 
> 
> I had the same question. I'm concerned about hurting my new (used) mower. It comes back from the sharpener on Friday and it will have been one week since it was done. I fertilized on Tuesday. It still has some good patches of sand. A lot of people around here said a week. Hopefully it won't hurt the mower. We'll see! Can you post when you decide to mow?
Click to expand...

No you go first!

Just joshing brother! Will do gonna give it a go around either tomorrow morning or Friday morning.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

Two9tene said:


> Bermuda_Newbie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two9tene said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am concerned I will be compacting the sand in the low spots and just not sure when I should give her a good mow!
> 
> 
> 
> I had the same question. I'm concerned about hurting my new (used) mower. It comes back from the sharpener on Friday and it will have been one week since it was done. I fertilized on Tuesday. It still has some good patches of sand. A lot of people around here said a week. Hopefully it won't hurt the mower. We'll see! Can you post when you decide to mow?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No you go first!
> 
> Just joshing brother! Will do gonna give it a go around either tomorrow morning or Friday morning.
Click to expand...

I'm excited to try out my new mower so I don't think I can wait much longer after it gets back. I used it once to scalp before the lawn was leveled but I knew it wasn't in great shape. It's a huge improvement over my push mower. It sat in my grandpa's shed for the past 15 years. He used it from 1985 to 2003 and never had it sharpened so it was in need of some TLC.


----------



## wardconnor

@Two9tene

What Ware said is basically the story. I let my lawn get a little taller and kind of let it go a bit because the sand the the cylinder on the mower do not like each other. The first mow or so for me was with the rotary mower with the bag on. I'd prefer to sacrifice the rotary mower blade before I trash the reel.

It is easy to do. Yes it is hard work and the videos do make it look easy. It is worth the time and effort to do it regardless of the work for me at least.

Please also keep in mind that I am a cool season grass guy and so my scenerio will be slightly different than yours. Not too much different but a little.

Just go for it and you will figure it out as you go along. Just talking about sand makes me anxious to get another load.


----------



## Suaverc118

Steverino said:


> @Suaverc118 I like the pavers in the bed edges. Cutting deep bed edges like that area is no easy chore either! Your yard is looking great. :thumbup:


Thanks! Edging those pavers takes the longest of any edging I do. But when I'm done, it looks really nice.

As far as when to mow, I went ahead and mowed 1 week later and then started my routine of twice a week again. Since I got back to that schedule, my lawn is thickening up. 
My question to @Ware and @wardconnor is when can I fertilize again after leveling and fertilizing 6/15 about 1lb of fertilizer per 1000?


----------



## Two9tene

@wardconnor ,

Thanks for the info! It is greatly appreciated! I hope my comment about how you guys made it look easy did not come off as condescending. If it did I apologize, as that was not my intent. I merely wanted to point out that you both inspired me to execute this project. At the end of the day, in retrospect, I felt I was overly confident with the project. However, you live you learn. A lot of lessons learned here. I leveled on Monday and here is what she looks like this morning:







I'm going to give her a cut today. I usually mow every two days. Especially because I haven't applied any PGR and those dagon seed heads just look awful! Pretty sure the 1/3 rule is already out the proverbial window!

Thanks again for the info and all the educational/entertaining YouTube videos!

Respectfully, 
Jason B.


----------



## Ware

Suaverc118 said:


> ...My question to Ware and wardconnor is when can I fertilize again after leveling and fertilizing 6/15 about 1lb of fertilizer per 1000?


I hate to sound vague, but _when can I fertilize again_ is really subjective - sort of like _when should I wash my truck again_. Every lawn is different and everyone has different expectations. There are a lot of variables and you will always be the best judge of how your lawn is responding to inputs. :thumbsup:


----------



## wardconnor

Two9tene said:


> I hope my comment about how you guys made it look easy did not come off as condescending. If it did I apologize, as that was not my intent. I merely wanted to point out that you both inspired me to execute this project.


Nope not condescending at all for me. No need to apologize.

Leveling is hard work but it is SO rewarding. The results are worth it. It won't be long until you become addicted to sand.


----------



## gvaughan

This is the exact reason I joined this group. OMG those pics are tremendous. I'm going to follow this EXACTLY!


----------



## Ware

gvaughan said:


> This is the exact reason I joined this group. OMG those pics are tremendous. I'm going to follow this EXACTLY!


Welcome to TLF! Glad you're here! :thumbup:


----------



## Two9tene

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> Two9tene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bermuda_Newbie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had the same question. I'm concerned about hurting my new (used) mower. It comes back from the sharpener on Friday and it will have been one week since it was done. I fertilized on Tuesday. It still has some good patches of sand. A lot of people around here said a week. Hopefully it won't hurt the mower. We'll see! Can you post when you decide to mow?
> 
> 
> 
> No you go first!
> 
> Just joshing brother! Will do gonna give it a go around either tomorrow morning or Friday morning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm excited to try out my new mower so I don't think I can wait much longer after it gets back. I used it once to scalp before the lawn was leveled but I knew it wasn't in great shape. It's a huge improvement over my push mower. It sat in my grandpa's shed for the past 15 years. He used it from 1985 to 2003 and never had it sharpened so it was in need of some TLC.
Click to expand...

So I gave her a mow this morning. Let me say I would recommend utilizing the rotary first! Bruh what a mess of sand! I used my push reel mower and it worked like a charm however I can here the sand grinding on the bed knife and blades. I could only imagine what it would do to a gas powered mower!

Also, the tires on both machines left some decent ruts in the low spots, just went over it again with a push broom and it evens right up!

Here you go check it out:


----------



## Suaverc118

Ware said:


> Suaverc118 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...My question to Ware and wardconnor is when can I fertilize again after leveling and fertilizing 6/15 about 1lb of fertilizer per 1000?
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to sound vague, but _when can I fertilize again_ is really subjective - sort of like _when should I wash my truck again_. Every lawn is different and everyone has different expectations. There are a lot of variables and you will always be the best judge of how your lawn is responding to inputs. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

You answered my question... You didn't say not to do it, so I'm gonna do it. Haha! My expectations are for my lawn to be thick, dark and soft. 
I also like to keep my truck cleaned, so I wash that at least once a week as well. 😎


----------



## Ware

Suaverc118 said:


> You answered my question... You didn't say not to do it, so I'm gonna do it. Haha! My expectations are for my lawn to be thick, dark and soft.
> I also like to keep my truck cleaned, so I wash that at least once a week as well. 😎


 :thumbup:


----------



## badkirk

Hello all, just found this site and wish i had stumbled upon it earlier. First time Bermuda owner, about 1 year since sod was laid (tif 419). This spring put down 4 yds of sandy loam (sand and soil). Helped level some but my current HOC is 2" and not able to go any lower w/out severe scalps.

I intend to likely wait until later this fall or next spring to do my next leveling project and based on this thread will use sand as recommended.

My question is my front yard has a severe slope (not sure the pictures do it justice likely 4 ft of fall in 50 ft.). with that type of grade and the fact i'm using a rotary Zero Turn would you even recommend doing sand? Also i live in Texas so we are guaranteed 3-5 gully washers a year where we might get as much as 3-5 inches of rain an hour so i'm obviously concerned about washout. Lot is 1.5 Acres but approximately 20,000-25,000 sqft of sod. the 4 yards of dirt was done on the front only.

**Note don't judge me on the dryness or mowing we are currently under emergency water restriction as our distribution facility had an outage so i've quit mowing since outdoor watering is restricted going on 6 days now. :|


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

Today is one week from when my back yard was sanded. I've included a picture from last week right after it was done and some from today. I fertilized on Tuesday. @Two9tene you're brave to mow so early. After hearing about your experience, I'm tempted to wait a little longer. As you can see from some of the pictures, there's still sand showing but my grass is really growing. I'm definitely going to be breaking the 1/3 rule when I mow. I haven't decided whether I'm going to slowly lower my HOC or just go for it and let the lawn recover. I may mow first with my pushmower set to 1" so it takes the brunt of any abuse. It looks greener in person. I think it's looking a bit yellowish in the pictures from all the seed heads.






Ignore the dead spot. My sprinklers weren't adjusted right and it happened quickly. You can't tell really from the picture but it's coming back.


----------



## Two9tene

@Bermuda_Newbie,

I just went at it head on! I figured it would recoup faster if I was closer to the 1/3 rule than letting it over grow any more than it already had it just 4-5 days! And let me tell you she is looking B-E-A utiful! You be the the judge:







Also, my HOC on the west side is ~1.5" to 2" and the east side is at ~.9 to 1.1" (using the push reel on this side)

That joker was at 3+"s when I cut it on both sides! It's growing like nobody's business! Lmao... man I sure need some cheap PGR!

God Speed Brother!


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

@Two9tene You're inspiring me to mow! Your yard looks great!

Maybe it's fortuitous that there's been a delay with my mower at the shop and I'm feeling too lazy to get out there and push mow in this heat. I'm in California so it's not quite 1pm. I prefer to mow in the evening. I'll take pictures after I mow whenever it may be. Your lawn is really coming in nicely.


----------



## Durso81

Two9tene said:


> @Bermuda_Newbie,
> 
> I just went at it head on! I figured it would recoup faster if I was closer to the 1/3 rule than letting it over grow any more than it already had it just 4-5 days! And let me tell you she is looking B-E-A utiful! You be the the judge:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, my HOC on the west side is ~1.5" to 2" and the east side is at ~.9 to 1.1" (using the push reel on this side)
> 
> That joker was at 3+"s when I cut it on both sides! It's growing like nobody's business! Lmao... man I sure need some cheap PGR!
> 
> God Speed Brother!


If your looking for some PGR I split my gallon up and have it in 32oz bettix bottles. Check out in this thread. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3437
PM if interested.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

Durso81 said:


> If your looking for some PGR I split my gallon up and have it in 32oz bettix bottles. Check out in this thread. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3437
> PM if interested.


I'm so tempted by this but I don't have any of the sprayer equipment. Ballpark, how much am I looking at for a sprayer with a good nozzle?


----------



## Durso81

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> Durso81 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If your looking for some PGR I split my gallon up and have it in 32oz bettix bottles. Check out in this thread. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3437
> PM if interested.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm so tempted by this but I don't have any of the sprayer equipment. Ballpark, how much am I looking at for a sprayer with a good nozzle?
Click to expand...

You can get the Chapin 20v battery backpack for about $150. I would not get anything else but battery powered. I did the pump backpack and it quickly got sold and I got battery.


----------



## badkirk

Just wanted to follow up on this one and see if there were any opinions? TYIA :thumbup:



badkirk said:


> Hello all, just found this site and wish i had stumbled upon it earlier. First time Bermuda owner, about 1 year since sod was laid (tif 419). This spring put down 4 yds of sandy loam (sand and soil). Helped level some but my current HOC is 2" and not able to go any lower w/out severe scalps.
> 
> I intend to likely wait until later this fall or next spring to do my next leveling project and based on this thread will use sand as recommended.
> 
> My question is my front yard has a severe slope (not sure the pictures do it justice likely 4 ft of fall in 50 ft.). with that type of grade and the fact i'm using a rotary Zero Turn would you even recommend doing sand? Also i live in Texas so we are guaranteed 3-5 gully washers a year where we might get as much as 3-5 inches of rain an hour so i'm obviously concerned about washout. Lot is 1.5 Acres but approximately 20,000-25,000 sqft of sod. the 4 yards of dirt was done on the front only.
> 
> **Note don't judge me on the dryness or mowing we are currently under emergency water restriction as our distribution facility had an outage so i've quit mowing since outdoor watering is restricted going on 6 days now. :|


----------



## Two9tene

badkirk said:


> Just wanted to follow up on this one and see if there were any opinions? TYIA :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> badkirk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello all, just found this site and wish i had stumbled upon it earlier. First time Bermuda owner, about 1 year since sod was laid (tif 419). This spring put down 4 yds of sandy loam (sand and soil). Helped level some but my current HOC is 2" and not able to go any lower w/out severe scalps.
> 
> I intend to likely wait until later this fall or next spring to do my next leveling project and based on this thread will use sand as recommended.
> 
> My question is my front yard has a severe slope (not sure the pictures do it justice likely 4 ft of fall in 50 ft.). with that type of grade and the fact i'm using a rotary Zero Turn would you even recommend doing sand? Also i live in Texas so we are guaranteed 3-5 gully washers a year where we might get as much as 3-5 inches of rain an hour so i'm obviously concerned about washout. Lot is 1.5 Acres but approximately 20,000-25,000 sqft of sod. the 4 yards of dirt was done on the front only.
> 
> **Note don't judge me on the dryness or mowing we are currently under emergency water restriction as our distribution facility had an outage so i've quit mowing since outdoor watering is restricted going on 6 days now. :|
Click to expand...

Brother! Throw her down it will not hurt the lawn and it more than likely will not wash away!


----------



## Lawn_newbie

Finally finished reading this and several journals with leveling.

Sand and tools should be delivered by 7/9.


----------



## derek

@Txmx583 did you end up going with the cushion sand?

I took on a leveling project this past weekend and used cushion... I would NOT recommend using it..

After the lawn heals some, i'm going to immediately turn around and use masonry sand.


----------



## Thor865

About 95% filled in and doing great. Thanks everyone for your help and input. 
June 7th 

July 4th


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## erdons

After a little over 3 weeks


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## Thor865

erdons said:


> After a little over 3 weeks


When you scalping that down and mowing at .125 for that putting green?


----------



## erdons

Thor865 said:


> erdons said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a little over 3 weeks
> 
> 
> 
> When you scalping that down and mowing at .125 for that putting green?
Click to expand...

Been waiting for that little corner to finish filling in and will be dropping as short as I can go with my McLane, maybe a couple of weeks away.


----------



## Thor865

erdons said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> erdons said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a little over 3 weeks
> 
> 
> 
> When you scalping that down and mowing at .125 for that putting green?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Been waiting for that little corner to finish filling in and will be dropping as short as I can go with my McLane, maybe a couple of weeks away.
Click to expand...

👍👍 what hybrid did you get again?


----------



## erdons

Tifgreen.


----------



## DSchlauch

Thor865 said:


> About 95% filled in and doing great. Thanks everyone for your help and input.
> June 7th
> 
> July 4th


Looks great! Man I need to do this!


----------



## Thor865

erdons said:


> Tifgreen.


Jealous! Although I think Tifgrand May do pretty well at those low heights too. I am going to try a section for a putting green height next season after spring scalp


----------



## Thor865

DSchlauch said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> About 95% filled in and doing great. Thanks everyone for your help and input.
> June 7th
> 
> July 4th
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great! Man I need to do this!
Click to expand...

Thanks. It's a lot of work and recommend reading the leveling thread and using recommended tools for the job as it helps a lot. I probably couldn't of done it without the gorilla cart, a riding mower to pull it, and drag mat.

It's always a multi time endeavor unless your already starting with a fairly clean surface. I know I'll have to do it again but should be just spot leveling


----------



## erdons

Thor865 said:


> erdons said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tifgreen.
> 
> 
> 
> Jealous! Although I think Tifgrand May do pretty well at those low heights too. I am going to try a section for a putting green height next season after spring scalp
Click to expand...

I've heard tifgrand is a very good low height cultivar, I'm currently trying to grow a tifsport lawn in my front yard, I'm going to see which one handles the lower mowing heights better, So far I like the look of tifsport much better, but waiting to see the entire lawn filled in to judge properly.


----------



## Thor865

erdons said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> erdons said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tifgreen.
> 
> 
> 
> Jealous! Although I think Tifgrand May do pretty well at those low heights too. I am going to try a section for a putting green height next season after spring scalp
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've heard tifgrand is a very good low height cultivar, I'm currently trying to grow a tifsport lawn in my front yard, I'm going to see which one handles the lower mowing heights better, So far I like the look of tifsport much better, but waiting to see the entire lawn filled in to judge properly.
Click to expand...

I know Tifgreen has had some crazy mutations over the past 50 years it's been out. If I remember correctly it's from those natural mutations that Tifdrawf and other ultra dwarf varieties have came from


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

First mow after leveling!







To give some context

June 22nd





June 29th





July 9th





Thanks everyone for your pictures and help. Waiting this long to mow was not the original plan but it turned out well. I did use my Fiskars manual last week on a couple of high parts that weren't especially sandy but waited to mow the whole thing until yesterday. I plan on taking it down to as close to .5 as I can get with my mower on subsequent cuts. This cut was between 3/4" and 1". You are all absolutely right that leveling is addictive. I already have some spots that I'm thinking could use more leveling. I'll wait until next year to do it again.


----------



## Ware

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> ...Thanks everyone for your pictures and help. Waiting this long to mow was not the original plan but it turned out well. I did use my Fiskars manual last week on a couple of high parts that weren't especially sandy but waited to mow the whole thing until yesterday. I plan on taking it down to as close to .5 as I can get with my mower on subsequent cuts. This cut was between 3/4" and 1". You are all absolutely right that leveling is addictive. I already have some spots that I'm thinking could use more leveling. I'll wait until next year to do it again.


It looks great! Congrats!


----------



## Thor865

Anyone experienced Qoc issues after leveling?

Is it anyway possible that I did something wrong that caused my mower to have cut issues now?


----------



## nt5000

Bring on the sand!
Borrowed the cart and drag mat from @Flynt2799


----------



## Flynt2799

nt5000 said:


> Bring on the sand!
> Borrowed the cart and drag mat from


Good luck man!


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

Thor865 said:


> Anyone experienced Qoc issues after leveling?
> 
> Is it anyway possible that I did something wrong that caused my mower to have cut issues now?


What do you mean by quality of cut? When I first mowed, I still had lots of pockets of sand and it didn't look fantastic. It's been a month and it's still growing back in places. You can look back through my pictures and see what I'm talking about. Is it just not cutting at all?


----------



## Ahab1997

nt5000 said:


> Bring on the sand!
> Borrowed the cart and drag mat from @Flynt2799


Good luck! This will be me in 2020 hopefully. Need 2019 to really get the turf healthy.


----------



## dtillman5

So I wanted to drop some thoughts on leveling after doing my first level this year. I may be wrong but I believe aeration punches holes in your pre-emergent barrier, and a layer of sand on top covers your preM too. If I'm wrong it's ok, but it just makes sense to me. I had a spurge outbreak and some crab grass sneaking in a month to 6 weeks after my level. I hand pulled roughly 300 spurge weeds out by the tap root. Guess what all the roots had on them? Sand, same with the small amount of crab grass. Something to consider, possibly might want to put out a light preM after an aeration and sand to prevent potential outbreaks. Just a thought.


----------



## raldridge2315

dtillman5 said:


> So I wanted to drop some thoughts on leveling after doing my first level this year. I may be wrong but I believe aeration punches holes in your pre-emergent barrier, and a layer of sand on top covers your preM too. If I'm wrong it's ok, but it just makes sense to me. I had a spurge outbreak and some crab grass sneaking in a month to 6 weeks after my level. I hand pulled roughly 300 spurge weeds out by the tap root. Guess what all the roots had on them? Sand, same with the small amount of crab grass. Something to consider, possibly might want to put out a light preM after an aeration and sand to prevent potential outbreaks. Just a thought.


It's a strong possibility that the weed seeds were in the sand, particularly the crabgrass. It comes with the territory. I've had a spurge outbreak this year also and I didn't sand or disturb the pre-em. Aeration and pre-em --- there's and argument both ways. If aeration and leveling destroys the pre-em layer, I say live with it, The benefits of leveling far out way the inconvenience of weed pressure. We're two months away from another app of pre-em.


----------



## dtillman5

@raldridge2315 leveling is definitely worth it, just thought a light preM wouldn't be a bad idea. If the seeds were in the sand the preM should keep the bulk of them from germinating as well.


----------



## raldridge2315

dtillman5 said:


> @raldridge2315 leveling is definitely worth it, just thought a light preM wouldn't be a bad idea. If the seeds were in the sand the preM should keep the bulk of them from germinating as well.


Perhaps. If you are doing an app in February and September, as I do, we are reaching the end of the useful life of the pre-em. Lots of variables here. Pin pointing the exact cause is challenging. According to the Prodiamine 65 WDG label, the max annual rate (.83 oz.) will yield 12 months control (or at least that's the time before reseeding). I apply .42 oz. on the 15th of Feb. and Sept. So the six months for the half app for me will expire on the 15th of August, three and a half weeks from today. There's not likely to be much germination in the heat of August, but of course you can put down a light app now. I do think at this point, I would rely on a post emergent herbicide and stick with the schedule.


----------



## dtillman5

I do the same preM schedule as you. You were one of the first people who responded to my first post a little over a year ago and I have followed yours and John Ware's advice. I still have a long way to go but I'm getting there. I really appreciate your help and input always. I got the idea about breaking through the preM barrier from reading another blog from http://www.turfhacker.com/?m=1 I found this from one of the other posts hear on TLF. He talks about disease increase on golf greens from aeration. He has a lots of interesting ideas and keeps really good records of what's happening on his course.


----------



## raldridge2315

dtillman5 said:


> I really appreciate your help and input always.


Glad to help -- anytime.


----------



## dtillman5

raldridge2315 said:


> dtillman5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I really appreciate your help and input always.
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to help -- anytime.
Click to expand...

 :thumbup:


----------



## Cjames1603

New here and have loved reading the thread. I'm wondering if I'm too late to do a leveling of at least my front yard this year. 419 Bermuda that is fairly healthy but certainly needs leveling. I'm in Alabama and it's still hot throughout August and September.


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## Cjames1603

Tuscaloosa to be exact. I just noticed we have some Bama guys in here.


----------



## dtillman5

Cjames1603 said:


> Tuscaloosa to be exact. I just noticed we have some Bama guys in here.


 You should have enough time if you do it in the next couple weeks. Just want to make sure you broom the sand into the canopy good after you get it spread and leveled with a drag of some sort, give it plenty of water after, and hit with a good dose of nitrogen. Welcome to TLF!


----------



## dtillman5

@Cjames1603 RTR! There are a lot of Alabama folks here, pretty large N Alabama contingent.


----------



## Cjames1603

I am
Going to do the front yard this weekend. I will try and get some daily pictures as an example of a late summer level project. Good or bad.


----------



## dtillman5

Cjames1603 said:


> I am
> Going to do the front yard this weekend. I will try and get some daily pictures as an example of a late summer level project. Good or bad.


looking forward to the pictures! :thumbup:


----------



## Cjames1603

So
I have a small chain link gate that I plan to grab with because I don't have a drag. Thinking that would be sufficient? It's not just the wire it has the pipe frame around it. One of the walk through size.


----------



## dtillman5

Cjames1603 said:


> So
> I have a small chain link gate that I plan to grab with because I don't have a drag. Thinking that would be sufficient? It's not just the wire it has the pipe frame around it. One of the walk through size.


That should work, an actual drag mat might work better but anything that will lay flat and let sand sift though as you pull should help the leveling/smoothing process.


----------



## PokeGrande

May 29:













June 1:





June 10:





June 14:



July 26:


----------



## Alan

PokeGrande said:


> May 29:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> June 1:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> June 10:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> June 14:
> 
> 
> 
> July 26:


Awesome. :thumbup:

I get a big smile on my face when I see a pile of sand like that because I know it's going to turn out great!!


----------



## Cjames1603

How many yards did you use? I couldn't get sand delivered until Monday so no work this weekend


----------



## PokeGrande

Cjames1603 said:


> How many yards did you use? I couldn't get sand delivered until Monday so no work this weekend


If you're asking me, I had 6 yards delivered. Had just a tad left over after topdressing around 4K sq ft or so.


----------



## Guest

This may be a odd question but is it possible to level the lawn with just cutting very low with a rotary. A cal trimmer should be on the way next year but for now I'd like to level some places?lowest I can get reasonably is 1.5" with my current mower before I see nothing but stems.


----------



## Greendoc

Sure you can. A scalp from a rotary is actually going to remove more material at the same height because the blade tears grass off of the ground if it is set to go low.


----------



## SGrabs33

firefighter11 said:


> A cal trimmer should be on the way next year


 :thumbup: :nod: :thumbup:


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

@PokeGrande What size drag mat was that and where did you get it? I saw a bunch on amazon but they are larger than I need. The size you have looks pretty good.


----------



## PokeGrande

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> @PokeGrande What size drag mat was that and where did you get it? I saw a bunch on amazon but they are larger than I need. The size you have looks pretty good.


I believe this is it and where I purchased it from several years ago: https://unique-sports.com/products/tsi-4w-x-18l-rigid-drag-mat-w-drag-bar-attachment

So, 4'x18" it seems.


----------



## Cjames1603

Hey guys. I think I missed my window on leveling but when I scalped I notice that I have a thatch issue. The greenup on the higher spots is miraculous but I notice the places that took longer to establish back this year are struggling. Am I too late in Tuscaloosa Alabama to dethat h this year? My plan b was to wait until next years greenup and dethat h then sand, but I'm aftraid the thatch will again his winter cause areas that will again take me months and pounds of nitrogen to get established again next year. So advice is being sought after. Thanks!!!


----------



## Ware

Cjames1603 said:


> ...Am I too late in Tuscaloosa Alabama to dethat h this year?


I don't think so. I will be mowing here in Arkansas for another 2.5-3 months.


----------



## Cjames1603

Thanks ware. Verri cut then water I assume is the best way? I put .5# per 1000 his past weekend so maybe hit it with another .5 after cleanup? My thumbs and this phone don't play well together. Then throw in auto correct......I can't win


----------



## Jackofalltrades

How long would you guys wait before leveling new sod?


----------



## harold56

Jackofalltrades said:


> How long would you guys wait before leveling new sod?


I'm wondering this same thing. I bought a new built house which had sod laid in July and it is the bumpiest lawn I've ever seen. I'm ready to level just not sure the sod is ready.


----------



## TheTurfTamer

Using a Lawn Roller is a good ( Low Impact ) way to start leveling. Once you are sure that the roots has taken hold, Then you can be more aggressive. The one I use weighs 400 lbs filled with water. I use this once a month. Straight lines from top to bottom. I am still working the spot with my water meter. Yes this will compact the soil. Following up with a Core Aeration and sand after it has taken hold. Soil is different , In Alabama we have this hard red dirt and brown clay terrible for roots to grow. I have had to aerate, manure , sand and roll and I am still not completely level. Take your time.


----------



## TheTurfTamer

Cjames1603 said:


> Hey guys. I think I missed my window on leveling but when I scalped I notice that I have a thatch issue. The greenup on the higher spots is miraculous but I notice the places that took longer to establish back this year are struggling. Am I too late in Tuscaloosa Alabama to dethat h this year? My plan b was to wait until next years greenup and dethat h then sand, but I'm aftraid the thatch will again his winter cause areas that will again take me months and pounds of nitrogen to get established again next year. So advice is being sought after. Thanks!!!


I am in Athens, Alabama and I will still be mowing in late October. You have plenty of time ! I would rent a Verticutter/de-thatcher. Nail it/ then scalp and bag. then you can get a good idea of the leveling issues. After I scalp, I water and look for any pools of water forming for the low spots.

Rammer Jammer, Yellowhammer, 
give 'em hell, Alabama! :thumbup:


----------



## harold56

I went and did it. 10 yards of sand spread 6 weeks post sod install. Cant wait to get the first cut in with the 220e post sand tomorrow. Best part of the whole project..... Being called out by the local "facebook" pro about scalping in the summer. I love it.


----------



## jayhawk

How big are those trees going to be in 10 years? Ask the builder what you're supposed to do then..... :mrgreen:


----------



## Smokindog

Might want to get them to move that sprinkler head over to the corner. Looks like you've got about a foot that's going to be a dry spot!

Nice job on the lawn.


harold56 said:


> I went and did it. 10 yards of sand spread 6 weeks post sod install. Cant wait to get the first cut in with the 220e post sand tomorrow. Best part of the whole project..... Being called out by the local "facebook" pro about scalping in the summer. I love it.


----------



## Visitor

jayhawk said:


> How big are those trees going to be in 10 years? Ask the builder what you're supposed to do then..... :mrgreen:


Here in inner loop Houston, builders plant live oak trees within 5 ft of homes and within 3ft of driveways/sidewalks. They are super cheap and at 8ft look okay long enough for them to sell. 6 yrs later? Different and expensive story. :roll:


----------



## raldridge2315

Visitor said:


> jayhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> How big are those trees going to be in 10 years? Ask the builder what you're supposed to do then..... :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> Here in inner loop Houston, builders plant live oak trees within 5 ft of homes and within 3ft of driveways/sidewalks. They are super cheap and at 8ft look okay long enough for them to sell. 6 yrs later? Different and expensive story. :roll:
Click to expand...

Can I tell you a story about my cracked driveway from an oak tree that was too close. I starts at $1300 to remove the tree.


----------



## Podsi

Couple of questions from a bermuda newb that I haven't found answers for on the thread.

1. I've read elsewhere that you shouldn't add more than 1/2" of sand per 6 months over bermuda, but that seems untrue based on the thread and pictures. But how much is _too_ much? I have a lawn that was sodded ~4 months ago, and the contractors did a piss poor job of it, so there are spots of turf as much as 3" lower than the surrounding grass. Is it safe to level these lowest spots all in one go? Or will dumping 3" of sand over these spots choke out the grass underneath?

2. I've also read elsewhere that for leveling bermuda, you should mix half sand and half fine compost. But again, that doesn't seem to be advised in this thread. Can someone steer me straight on this point?

3. Any recommendations on a smaller drag mat that is specifically made to be pulled by hand? My yard is not large enough to warrant bringing in a lawn tractor.

I should mention that I'm planning to wait until next spring to do this. Just trying to get my game plan.

Thanks in advance. My lawn is a bit of a mess, so I plan on documenting my journey and will hopefully have some experiences and pictures to share. Here are a few pics of what I'm working with. You can see in general how uneven it is, but the pics don't do justice to how deep some of those depressions are.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

I bought a 3x3 dragmat on Amazon. I haven't used it yet but I bought it with the intent of dragging it by hand. It was around $75.


----------



## tcorbitt20

Podsi said:


> Couple of questions from a bermuda newb that I haven't found answers for on the thread.
> 
> 1. I've read elsewhere that you shouldn't add more than 1/2" of sand per 6 months over bermuda, but that seems untrue based on the thread and pictures. But how much is _too_ much? I have a lawn that was sodded ~4 months ago, and the contractors did a piss poor job of it, so there are spots of turf as much as 3" lower than the surrounding grass. Is it safe to level these lowest spots all in one go? Or will dumping 3" of sand over these spots choke out the grass underneath?
> 
> 2. I've also read elsewhere that for leveling bermuda, you should mix half sand and half fine compost. But again, that doesn't seem to be advised in this thread. Can someone steer me straight on this point?
> 
> 3. Any recommendations on a smaller drag mat that is specifically made to be pulled by hand? My yard is not large enough to warrant bringing in a lawn tractor.
> 
> I should mention that I'm planning to wait until next spring to do this. Just trying to get my game plan.
> 
> Thanks in advance. My lawn is a bit of a mess, so I plan on documenting my journey and will hopefully have some experiences and pictures to share. Here are a few pics of what I'm working with. You can see in general how uneven it is, but the pics don't do justice to how deep some of those depressions are.


1. The great (and bad in some cases) thing about Bermuda is that it will spread sideways. Even if you put sand thick in spots and the grass underneath is smothered, it will still cover the spot when it grows across. I just put sand on my yard to level it, and the deepest spots are taking longer to fill in but it's getting there.




2. Golf courses have used straight sand for years and years. http://www.usga.org/course-care/regional-updates/southeast-region/the-benefits-of-sand-topdressing.html

3. I borrowed a drag mat from a local baseball field.


----------



## dtillman5

So if I had a 3" deep spot that I expected to fill in laterally I'd use more than just sand. It may just be me but I'd think you'd need more than just sand for a root zone. Also I think a reel would just yank runners out of a 3" deep sand pit. Anything deeper than maybe 1-1.5 inches and I'd think about top soil, compost or manure mixed if I wanted to fill laterally and make it last. I feel like you'd end up with a dry spot in the yard later on if you had a big sand pit somewhere in the yard.

I've started walking on mine barefoot with a large cup of sand in hand. When I feel a small low spot I dump what's needed there and really work it in so the grass is poking through. Then I step on it again to feel if it's level. I just keep repeating this process since I did a full sand level earlier this year. I also added top soil and compost mixed to a few deeper trentched areas and top dressed them with sand.


----------



## raldridge2315

Mixing compost with leveling sand is a bad idea. The compost will, in time, decompose leaving a low spot needing to be leveled again. Using soil for deep holes isn't necessary either. Bermuda grass will grow through concrete. Two to three inches of sand at one leveling seems to smother the grass, but green will be poking through within a couple of weeks and once it fills in, it will be a firm base that will not rut from the mower. Golf greens and most high end sports field are built on sand bases. I recall many years ago reading that at Turner Field in Atlanta, the field had twelve inches of sand on top of several inches of gravel. There was no soil at all.

I agree that mowing over these deep low spots will be a challenge for the first few weeks when straight sand is used. Most likely they will need to be raked level afterward. But once grown in, the result will be much better.


----------



## Podsi

Y'all are amazing. Thanks for the help. I was worried that even moderate leveling would be a multi-year journey, but looks like I can get it done much more easily.


----------



## raldridge2315

Podsi said:


> Y'all are amazing. Thanks for the help. I was worried that even moderate leveling would be a multi-year journey, but looks like I can get it done much more easily.


Well this isn't necessarily true. In the vast majority of cases, leveling is a multiyear project. Even though a deep hole is filled with sand, there will be some settling, particularly if the underlying soil was disturbed as will most likely be the case with new construction,. It takes a long time for soil to re-compact to it's undisturbed state. In the meantime, lighter top dressing will be needed in following years. Building a nice, firm, and level lawn is a marathon, not a sprint.


----------



## Podsi

raldridge2315 said:


> Well this isn't necessarily true. In the vast majority of cases, leveling is a multiyear project. Even though a deep hole is filled with sand, there will be some settling, particularly if the underlying soil was disturbed as will most likely be the case with new construction,. It takes a long time for soil to re-compact to it's undisturbed state. In the meantime, lighter top dressing will be needed in following years. Building a nice, firm, and level lawn is a marathon, not a sprint.


Ah, thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Podsi

Another question. Does top dressing with sand for leveling purposes also help with drainage? My turf is almost always wet, even on a hot TX afternoon. Makes it not fun to walk or play on, and I'm worried about rot, mold, moss, or other types of pests.

Does cutting shorter help some of that excess moisture evaporate?


----------



## TheTurfTamer

Podsi said:


> Another question. Does top dressing with sand for leveling purposes also help with drainage? My turf is almost always wet, even on a hot TX afternoon. Makes it not fun to walk or play on, and I'm worried about rot, mold, moss, or other types of pests.
> 
> Does cutting shorter help some of that excess moisture evaporate?


If you aerate before topdressing or leveling. Yes it will help A-lot with your drainage, This is more than I one time application. I suggest twice a year for aeration.

Just topdressing affects only the top soil and will not affect compacted or clay soil.
0.2 MB aeration.jpg Check Error 


This will enable the soil to drain properly and you will not have the mold and moss issues. I do this in March and October.


----------



## MrMeaner

I had Bermuda smothered with 6"of top soil in a portion of my lawn when I built a shop in my back yard and it grew right back up through it. Bermuda will laugh at 3"-6" of sand and grow and spread right up through it with ease.


----------



## dtillman5

@raldridge2315 I don't doubt Turner has a 12" sand base, but I'd think they laid sod with likely 2" or more of soil (OM) on top of the sand. I am happy to be wrong, I'm still new to this.  Do they seed golf greens with seed directly on inches of sand with no organic matter(OM)? Or Ball fields for that matter? Maybe they do and I just don't know/haven't read about it. I need to watch some videos I guess. Most of the soil profiles I've seen of a golf green had a thin layer of thatch 1/8" below the grass, and then soil OM 2-3" with thin layers of sand where they top dressed multiple times visible in the cut away, then below that had a sand base above gravel.

Last season I had several spots 2-3" deep maybe between 1-3 feet wide and 1-5 feet long that I filled with sand about mid season, the larger areas took most of the latter half of the growing season before they were not visible. This year in a few deeper spots I didn't get to last year I put a mix of top soil 5 gallons, mixed with compost 2-3 cups, manure 2-3 cups, packed it all in good with a size 13 foot compacter,  aerated those areas with a screw driver, then did the final dress with sand. Those spots are all filled in, and pretty quick compared to my deeper sand areas from last year. These are just my observations with my own lawn.


----------



## raldridge2315

dtillman5 said:


> @raldridge2315 I don't doubt Turner has a 12" sand base, but I'd think they laid sod with likely 2" or more of soil (OM) on top of the sand. I am happy to be wrong, I'm still new to this.  Do they seed golf greens with seed directly on inches of sand with no organic matter(OM)? Or Ball fields for that matter? Maybe they do and I just don't know/haven't read about it. I need to watch some videos I guess. Most of the soil profiles I've seen of a golf green had a thin layer of thatch 1/8" below the grass, and then soil OM 2-3" with thin layers of sand where they top dressed multiple times visible in the cut away, then below that had a sand base above gravel.
> 
> Last season I had several spots 2-3" deep maybe between 1-3 feet wide and 1-5 feet long that I filled with sand about mid season, the larger areas took most of the latter half of the growing season before they were not visible. This year in a few deeper spots I didn't get to last year I put a mix of top soil 5 gallons, mixed with compost 2-3 cups, manure 2-3 cups, packed it all in good with a size 13 foot compacter,  aerated those areas with a screw driver, then did the final dress with sand. Those spots are all filled in, and pretty quick compared to my deeper sand areas from last year. These are just my observations with my own lawn.
> 
> Here's a video about modern sports field sod grown on plastic in pure "engineered" sand. This most likely wasn't used on Turner Field back in the day and you have a point that there is some soil with the sod, but grass will grow just fine on pure sand with application of proper nutrients. Think "hydroponic."


----------



## bwright

I have a new construction lawn that is very bumpy. I realize I might have to level in small doses for 2-3 years. However, does the sand wash away after time? Will this be something I have to do every year, or is it once it is level, it is level?


----------



## raldridge2315

Assuming that your lawn is not a steep slope or Noah doesn't build the boat at your place, the answer is no, it won't wash away. Once the grass knits in and together, it will tightly hold the sand in place. In following years, leveling will need to be done as you will notice low spots as you mow, but this will be less and less over time. At that point the process becomes one known as top dressing where the amount of sand that is put down will hardly be noticed after it's worked into the canopy. It really relies on you and how far you want to carry the process. WARNING. Leveling becomes addictive.


----------



## bwright

Currious, if you have kids/ a dog, do you end up tracking it in the house? Trying to gauge my wifes reaction...


----------



## harold56

bwright said:


> Currious, if you have kids/ a dog, do you end up tracking it in the house? Trying to gauge my wifes reaction...


YES!!! I have kids and indeed sand has been tracked into the house with much disapproval from my wife. Sand and hard wood floors don't mix. The only way to alleviate the situation is to clean it up before she sees it.


----------



## Jwsjr

bwright said:


> Currious, if you have kids/ a dog, do you end up tracking it in the house? Trying to gauge my wifes reaction...


i'll make this easy for you...she is not going to like you at all for a couple of weeks. I have kids, dogs and pool. It wasn't pretty for a couple of weeks but it does go away in fairly short order.


----------



## Kicker

Jwsjr said:


> bwright said:
> 
> 
> 
> Currious, if you have kids/ a dog, do you end up tracking it in the house? Trying to gauge my wifes reaction...
> 
> 
> 
> i'll make this easy for you...she is not going to like you at all for a couple of weeks. I have kids, dogs and pool. It wasn't pretty for a couple of weeks but it does go away in fairly short order.
Click to expand...

did you try to keep the dogs off the sand? I have fairly heavy/large dogs and am wondering what kind of undoing they'll do to a sand leveling job.


----------



## ctrav

Aawickham78 said:


> Podsi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another question. Does top dressing with sand for leveling purposes also help with drainage? My turf is almost always wet, even on a hot TX afternoon. Makes it not fun to walk or play on, and I'm worried about rot, mold, moss, or other types of pests.
> 
> Does cutting shorter help some of that excess moisture evaporate?
> 
> 
> 
> If you aerate before topdressing or leveling. Yes it will help A-lot with your drainage, This is more than I one time application. I suggest twice a year for aeration.
> 
> Just topdressing affects only the top soil and will not affect compacted or clay soil.
> 0.2 MB aeration.jpg Check Error
> 
> 
> This will enable the soil to drain properly and you will not have the mold and moss issues. I do this in March and October.
Click to expand...

@Aawickham78 So you aerate twice a year and you dont find October to ba an issue for the lawn? I ask because I have a trouble area and would like to aerate NOW but feel I should wait till spring based on others comments of using the stored nutrients. Texas forecast for first frost is not until November 22...

Any advice is appreciated!


----------



## Jwsjr

Kicker said:



> Jwsjr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bwright said:
> 
> 
> 
> Currious, if you have kids/ a dog, do you end up tracking it in the house? Trying to gauge my wifes reaction...
> 
> 
> 
> i'll make this easy for you...she is not going to like you at all for a couple of weeks. I have kids, dogs and pool. It wasn't pretty for a couple of weeks but it does go away in fairly short order.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> did you try to keep the dogs off the sand? I have fairly heavy/large dogs and am wondering what kind of undoing they'll do to a sand leveling job.
Click to expand...

i have 3 dogs. 2/3 were no problem at all. The 3rd is a 9 month old Siberian Retriever. She was convinced i put the sand down just for her pleasure and made good use of it.


----------



## rhollow1

What do you guys do to try and stop the sand from getting into your sprinkler heads? I have cleaned my sprinkler heads several times this year after putting down sand, but it continues to get clogged.


----------



## Kicker

rhollow1 said:


> What do you guys do to try and stop the sand from getting into your sprinkler heads? I have cleaned my sprinkler heads several times this year after putting down sand, but it continues to get clogged.


i have majority of hunter mp rotator's. They're known for having sand NOT affect them. Might be something to look into if it is a common occurrence.


----------



## raldridge2315

rhollow1 said:


> What do you guys do to try and stop the sand from getting into your sprinkler heads? I have cleaned my sprinkler heads several times this year after putting down sand, but it continues to get clogged.


It's why I keep a supply of empty tuna cans. My circa 2000 Nelsons don't like sand either. I put the cans over the sprinkler heads before spreading the sand. It helps. I also have flags as a reminder of where they are.


----------



## Hexadecimal 00FF00

Add me to list of rookie Bermuda levelers come next Spring. ~8681 ft2 of common Bermuda. Anxiously researching and planning now.


----------



## Reddog90

Hey guys, I had my lawn sodded with celebration bermuda about a month ago. The lawn was graded and prepped before sodding, but it has settled into a bumpy mess. I am mowing with a Honda 3 in 1 rotary mower right now, but would really prefer a reel mower eventually. Right now, I am mowing every 5-7 days as weather allows and I can't set my Honda lower than 2 inches without scalping spots in the yard...

My plan for next summer is to follow the instructions in this thread and wardconnor's youtube videos. Will I need to switch to a reel mower before then to cut low before leveling with sand next year? I've started looking around at used ones, mainly Toro GM1000s and JD 180Bs or Cs. How do I bridge the gap between the lowest I can mow with my Honda without scalping and the max HOC on whatever reel mower I get?

This morning, 1 week and 1.5" of rain since last mow. Far from what's normal on here, but worlds better than what we had a couple months ago. Fighting some sedges, sida, and armyworms right now.


----------



## Smokindog

Did they roll it after laying the sod? If not you can rent a roller at many HD tool counters for like $20. I had sod installed in March/April on a portion of my lot and rolling helped it both "take" and knocked out the bumps. I actually purchased the same roller from Northern Tool for about $90 and rolled a few times.


Reddog90 said:


> Hey guys, I had my lawn sodded with celebration bermuda about a month ago. The lawn was graded and prepped before sodding, but it has settled into a bumpy mess. I am mowing with a Honda 3 in 1 rotary mower right now, but would really prefer a reel mower eventually. Right now, I am mowing every 5-7 days as weather allows and I can't set my Honda lower than 2 inches without scalping spots in the yard...
> 
> My plan for next summer is to follow the instructions in this thread and wardconnor's youtube videos. Will I need to switch to a reel mower before then to cut low before leveling with sand next year? I've started looking around at used ones, mainly Toro GM1000s and JD 180Bs or Cs. How do I bridge the gap between the lowest I can mow with my Honda without scalping and the max HOC on whatever reel mower I get?
> 
> This morning, 1 week and 1.5" of rain since last mow. Far from what's normal on here, but worlds better than what we had a couple months ago. Fighting some sedges, sida, and armyworms right now.


----------



## Reddog90

Smokindog said:


> Did they roll it after laying the sod? If not you can rent a roller at many HD tool counters for like $20. I had sod installed in March/April on a portion of my lot and rolling helped it both "take" and knocked out the bumps. I actually purchased the same roller from Northern Tool for about $90 and rolled a few times.
> 
> 
> Reddog90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys, I had my lawn sodded with celebration bermuda about a month ago. The lawn was graded and prepped before sodding, but it has settled into a bumpy mess. I am mowing with a Honda 3 in 1 rotary mower right now, but would really prefer a reel mower eventually. Right now, I am mowing every 5-7 days as weather allows and I can't set my Honda lower than 2 inches without scalping spots in the yard...
> 
> My plan for next summer is to follow the instructions in this thread and wardconnor's youtube videos. Will I need to switch to a reel mower before then to cut low before leveling with sand next year? I've started looking around at used ones, mainly Toro GM1000s and JD 180Bs or Cs. How do I bridge the gap between the lowest I can mow with my Honda without scalping and the max HOC on whatever reel mower I get?
> 
> This morning, 1 week and 1.5" of rain since last mow. Far from what's normal on here, but worlds better than what we had a couple months ago. Fighting some sedges, sida, and armyworms right now.
Click to expand...

They did roll it after installing. The other landscaper that did the grading and leveling before sod was installed used a large tiller to knock down a big high spot in the middle of my yard and to remove dead grass everywhere. I think the tiller didn't work to the same depth all over the yard and this wasn't apparent when everything was raked smooth and dry that evening. Add 6 pallets of grass the next day and heavy watering the next two weeks and it settled into a bumpy mess. It's not hard to walk on or anything like that, but I really want it leveled properly so I can mow low.


----------



## Smokindog

Tilling is "the problem". I've got an area I'm slowly building back up. It's where they scraped things up while building the retaining wall and then "filled at the end". It too got really bumpy. I still was able to fix a lot of the "bumps" by rolling. If it were me I'd roll it some more.

I'll aerate in the Spring to "fix" any compaction from all the rolling.


Reddog90 said:


> Smokindog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did they roll it after laying the sod? If not you can rent a roller at many HD tool counters for like $20. I had sod installed in March/April on a portion of my lot and rolling helped it both "take" and knocked out the bumps. I actually purchased the same roller from Northern Tool for about $90 and rolled a few times.
> 
> 
> Reddog90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys, I had my lawn sodded with celebration bermuda about a month ago. The lawn was graded and prepped before sodding, but it has settled into a bumpy mess. I am mowing with a Honda 3 in 1 rotary mower right now, but would really prefer a reel mower eventually. Right now, I am mowing every 5-7 days as weather allows and I can't set my Honda lower than 2 inches without scalping spots in the yard...
> 
> My plan for next summer is to follow the instructions in this thread and wardconnor's youtube videos. Will I need to switch to a reel mower before then to cut low before leveling with sand next year? I've started looking around at used ones, mainly Toro GM1000s and JD 180Bs or Cs. How do I bridge the gap between the lowest I can mow with my Honda without scalping and the max HOC on whatever reel mower I get?
> 
> This morning, 1 week and 1.5" of rain since last mow. Far from what's normal on here, but worlds better than what we had a couple months ago. Fighting some sedges, sida, and armyworms right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did roll it after installing. The other landscaper that did the grading and leveling before sod was installed used a large tiller to knock down a big high spot in the middle of my yard and to remove dead grass everywhere. I think the tiller didn't work to the same depth all over the yard and this wasn't apparent when everything was raked smooth and dry that evening. Add 6 pallets of grass the next day and heavy watering the next two weeks and it settled into a bumpy mess. It's not hard to walk on or anything like that, but I really want it leveled properly so I can mow low.
Click to expand...


----------



## tc_2018

Hi all,

I just have a question. When is an ideal time for leveling the Bermuda lawn? Can I do it next month?

Thanks


----------



## Reddog90

Smokindog said:


> Tilling is "the problem". I've got an area I'm slowly building back up. It's where they scraped things up while building the retaining wall and then "filled at the end". It too got really bumpy. I still was able to fix a lot of the "bumps" by rolling. If it were me I'd roll it some more.
> 
> I'll aerate in the Spring to "fix" any compaction from all the rolling.
> 
> 
> Reddog90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smokindog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did they roll it after laying the sod? If not you can rent a roller at many HD tool counters for like $20. I had sod installed in March/April on a portion of my lot and rolling helped it both "take" and knocked out the bumps. I actually purchased the same roller from Northern Tool for about $90 and rolled a few times.
> 
> 
> 
> They did roll it after installing. The other landscaper that did the grading and leveling before sod was installed used a large tiller to knock down a big high spot in the middle of my yard and to remove dead grass everywhere. I think the tiller didn't work to the same depth all over the yard and this wasn't apparent when everything was raked smooth and dry that evening. Add 6 pallets of grass the next day and heavy watering the next two weeks and it settled into a bumpy mess. It's not hard to walk on or anything like that, but I really want it leveled properly so I can mow low.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

You think rolling it now will make a difference, 1 month after install and after all that watering and rain? Should I water before rolling to soften things up slightly?


----------



## Reddog90

tc_2018 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just have a question. When is an ideal time for leveling the Bermuda lawn? Can I do it next month?
> 
> Thanks


My understanding is when the lawn is growing the most vigorously. I'm planning on waiting until next June or July, but I'd prefer to do it as early as I can next year.


----------



## tc_2018

Thanks.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

Reddog90 said:


> Smokindog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did they roll it after laying the sod? If not you can rent a roller at many HD tool counters for like $20. I had sod installed in March/April on a portion of my lot and rolling helped it both "take" and knocked out the bumps. I actually purchased the same roller from Northern Tool for about $90 and rolled a few times.
> 
> 
> Reddog90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys, I had my lawn sodded with celebration bermuda about a month ago. The lawn was graded and prepped before sodding, but it has settled into a bumpy mess. I am mowing with a Honda 3 in 1 rotary mower right now, but would really prefer a reel mower eventually. Right now, I am mowing every 5-7 days as weather allows and I can't set my Honda lower than 2 inches without scalping spots in the yard...
> 
> My plan for next summer is to follow the instructions in this thread and wardconnor's youtube videos. Will I need to switch to a reel mower before then to cut low before leveling with sand next year? I've started looking around at used ones, mainly Toro GM1000s and JD 180Bs or Cs. How do I bridge the gap between the lowest I can mow with my Honda without scalping and the max HOC on whatever reel mower I get?
> 
> This morning, 1 week and 1.5" of rain since last mow. Far from what's normal on here, but worlds better than what we had a couple months ago. Fighting some sedges, sida, and armyworms right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did roll it after installing. The other landscaper that did the grading and leveling before sod was installed used a large tiller to knock down a big high spot in the middle of my yard and to remove dead grass everywhere. I think the tiller didn't work to the same depth all over the yard and this wasn't apparent when everything was raked smooth and dry that evening. Add 6 pallets of grass the next day and heavy watering the next two weeks and it settled into a bumpy mess. It's not hard to walk on or anything like that, but I really want it leveled properly so I can mow low.
Click to expand...

I had a similar problem with my sod. They graded it and everything was perfect. They rolled it three different times the week after it was laid but ultimately, the soil settles and sometimes the sod isn't cut perfectly level. I learned about the last one after replacing some sod in my front yard. The first part of the sod piece was thick and it was super thin at the end. No amount of leveling is going to fix that. In the end, sanding over a few seasons is going to be your best bet. You can get a pretty low cut with a rotary and then sand (I did before I got my reel) but if you plan to get a reel anyway, it's better to scalp with that before you sand.


----------



## Smokindog

It needs to be soft but not soggy. A lot depends on which roller you get (weight/contact area). Make sure you roll in multiple directions. I'd do 3 to 4 passes each time, up/down, left/right, and crisscross.


Reddog90 said:


> Smokindog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tilling is "the problem". I've got an area I'm slowly building back up. It's where they scraped things up while building the retaining wall and then "filled at the end". It too got really bumpy. I still was able to fix a lot of the "bumps" by rolling. If it were me I'd roll it some more.
> 
> I'll aerate in the Spring to "fix" any compaction from all the rolling.
> 
> 
> Reddog90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They did roll it after installing. The other landscaper that did the grading and leveling before sod was installed used a large tiller to knock down a big high spot in the middle of my yard and to remove dead grass everywhere. I think the tiller didn't work to the same depth all over the yard and this wasn't apparent when everything was raked smooth and dry that evening. Add 6 pallets of grass the next day and heavy watering the next two weeks and it settled into a bumpy mess. It's not hard to walk on or anything like that, but I really want it leveled properly so I can mow low.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You think rolling it now will make a difference, 1 month after install and after all that watering and rain? Should I water before rolling to soften things up slightly?
Click to expand...


----------



## Reddog90

Ok, we're due for rain the next couple of days. I'll try renting a roller one evening next week and see if that helps. I will still probably want to topdress with sand next year though. If I don't get a reel mower before then and the lowest I can mow with my rotary without scalping is just under 2", will it be a huge pain to work the sand into the grass canopy with a rake, drag mat, and push broom?


----------



## jarrodsp71

Hello all,

We just bought new construction last month. We had the sod installed for a hefty upgrade throughout our lot instead of just seed in the back half. However, I have watched them install sod on the new homes and they are not rolling after laying the pieces. My yard will twist your ankle if you aren't careful while walking. I have a three month old and do not have the time to reel mow the 10,000+ square foot lawn. I purchased a new riding mower and I cannot cut lower than 3.5" to avoid scalping in some areas. A reel mower is a few years away now and I am sticking with the rider. What is the best and quickest way to level? I live in North Carolina and we have clay. I'm concerned about sand as I have read it doesn't provide nutrients to the lawn and doesn't hold water.


----------



## Kicker

jarrodsp71 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> We just bought new construction last month. We had the sod installed for a hefty upgrade throughout our lot instead of just seed in the back half. However, I have watched them install sod on the new homes and they are not rolling after laying the pieces. My yard will twist your ankle if you aren't careful while walking. I have a three month old and do not have the time to reel mow the 10,000+ square foot lawn. I purchased a new riding mower and I cannot cut lower than 3.5" to avoid scalping in some areas. A reel mower is a few years away now and I am sticking with the rider. What is the best and quickest way to level? I live in North Carolina and we have clay. I'm concerned about sand as I have read it doesn't provide nutrients to the lawn and doesn't hold water.


A couple of things to note.

Since this is a new build, expect the ground to settle over the next 2, 5, 10 years. So needing to level will be a common occurrence.

Being in North Carolina, it's probably a little late in the season to try and level bermuda. To get the best result a scalp will be required for you to see the low/high areas that need leveling. The grass needs to be in it's prime time for growing, for bermuda that's hot weather with more than 6 hours of sunlight.

Sand is your best option. There's already organic material in the soil and in the dirt the sod was established in. You don't want to use things like compost or even dirt as the organic material in those materials ends up being used and then disappears. If it disappears, there was no point in putting it there as it creates a void.

I'd highly suggest starting on page 1 of this thread and reading through it. Everything you asked has been covered with much more detail than in my post. You'll see pictures of peoples experience with using sand and have a better idea of what you should do for next year.

In the meantime, you can always rent a sod roller and roll it


----------



## jarrodsp71

Thanks. I don't know how I missed the first 25 pages of this thread. I figured I would work on it early April. I like to plan and overthink!


----------



## AllenbSC

Has anyone used soil3 from super sod for top dressing a Bermuda lawn. This will be my first time top dressing my 2 year old lawn.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

AllenbSC said:


> Has anyone used soil3 from super sod for top dressing a Bermuda lawn. This will be my first time top dressing my 2 year old lawn.


You know what, I looked at some when I was at a home and garden show, and the stuff looked and felt very nice. It had no odor, and the fact that it's organic is a bonus. If you have a test that would show that you're lacking in OM, then I say go for it, otherwise, I'd just go with sand. vOv


----------



## JRS 9572

AllenbSC said:


> Has anyone used soil3 from super sod for top dressing a Bermuda lawn. This will be my first time top dressing my 2 year old lawn.


This will be the 5th year I've used it. Will do it on Memorial Day weekend. It's good stuff. It's just not inexpensive. I use the level mix which is 30% Soil 3 and 70% sand.

Here's a link to what I posted about last year
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=148&p=64797#p64797


----------



## Adrian82

cnet24 said:


> Adrian82 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I leveled under 1K today with some Mason sand loaded into a small pickup.
> 1. I have a whole new level of respect for individuals leveling large yards.
> 2. I now know that I will have to order sand by the cubic bag and have them strategically placed.
> 3. Lawns devour sand because the load disappears quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get the sand in Lawrenceville?
Click to expand...

Don't know if I replied to this post, but Buck Jones in Lawrenceville.


----------



## Two9tene

Took a stab at leveling my lawn last year take a look here--> My Lawn Journal


----------



## JRS 9572

AllenbSC said:


> Has anyone used soil3 from super sod for top dressing a Bermuda lawn. This will be my first time top dressing my 2 year old lawn.


Just received a notification they have a little discount running on the super sacks.

https://shop.soil3.com


----------



## sanders4617

Has anybody figured out the earliest you'd be able to start a leveling process? Still no growth of Bermuda in any of the yards around my area, so I'm assuming I'd need to at least wait till it's starting to grow? I hate to wait till June lol.. but I know it takes mid May to June before it really gets aggressive.


----------



## Austinite

sanders4617 said:


> Has anybody figured out the earliest you'd be able to start a leveling process? Still no growth of Bermuda in any of the yards around my area, so I'm assuming I'd need to at least wait till it's starting to grow? I hate to wait till June lol.. but I know it takes mid May to June before it really gets aggressive.


I dont believe there is a set date/time to level. You just have to make sure your grass is actively growing. For some that's April and some earlier.


----------



## Two9tene

sanders4617 said:


> Has anybody figured out the earliest you'd be able to start a leveling process? Still no growth of Bermuda in any of the yards around my area, so I'm assuming I'd need to at least wait till it's starting to grow? I hate to wait till June lol.. but I know it takes mid May to June before it really gets aggressive.


You will want to do it when the grass is growing aggressively so that it could rebound well after the job. Leveling places a ton of stress on the lawn.


----------



## sanders4617

Austinite said:


> I dont believe there is a set date/time to level. You just have to make sure your grass is actively growing. For some that's April and some earlier.


Gotcha. I'm hopeful, for the first time ever, that we can go ahead and get the season started. That's the worst part about having a warm season lawn. Seems like it takes forever to get going.

I seeded TTTF at the house I just moved from and it is already growing some and ready to go. Stayed green all winter. Had some fungus issues here and there, but was wonderful to look at during the gloomy months.

Anyway, can't wait for some 70s and 80s!


----------



## Ware

sanders4617 said:


> Has anybody figured out the earliest you'd be able to start a leveling process? Still no growth of Bermuda in any of the yards around my area, so I'm assuming I'd need to at least wait till it's starting to grow? I hate to wait till June lol.. but I know it takes mid May to June before it really gets aggressive.


I like to level earlier in the spring - as the grass starts to take off. I trade slower recovery for favorable weather. I also like to get it out of the way so I can enjoy it the rest of the season. But yeah, recovery would be faster in June. :thumbup:


----------



## erdons

I did a leveling last week when it was only 73 outside. It might take a bit longer to recover, but I prefer that over leveling in 95 degree weather in a few months.


----------



## sanders4617

erdons said:


> I did a leveling last week when it was only 73 outside. It might take a bit longer to recover, but I prefer that over leveling in 95 degree weather in a few months.


Is your Bermuda growing? I guess once I see the grass is growing and coming in, I'll go ahead and do it as soon as I can. I like @Ware idea of getting it out of the way and then enjoying it for longer. Plus, who wants to level yards at 90-95F with 95% Humidity.. :evil:


----------



## erdons

sanders4617 said:


> erdons said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did a leveling last week when it was only 73 outside. It might take a bit longer to recover, but I prefer that over leveling in 95 degree weather in a few months.
> 
> 
> 
> Is your Bermuda growing? I guess once I see the grass is growing and coming in, I'll go ahead and do it as soon as I can. I like @Ware idea of getting it out of the way and then enjoying it for longer. Plus, who wants to level yards at 90-95F with 95% Humidity.. :evil:
Click to expand...

Yup I would say I was about 80% greened up last week before I sanded. Then we had a nice heat wave show up for about 5-6 days so already a lot of the sand has started dissapearing.


----------



## Redtwin

I did some leveling (over 16 yards of sand) over the weekend and it would have killed me to do it in hotter weather. I do plan on hitting it again once it recovers a bit, but that will be a much lighter coat. Hopefully, I can recruit some help.

Free beer and pizza anyone?


----------



## Cory

sanders4617 said:


> Has anybody figured out the earliest you'd be able to start a leveling process? Still no growth of Bermuda in any of the yards around my area, so I'm assuming I'd need to at least wait till it's starting to grow? I hate to wait till June lol.. but I know it takes mid May to June before it really gets aggressive.


As already stated, its probably best for it to be growing at least. I did mine April 20th last year, it looked like this before I started





Looked like this May 27th


----------



## Reddog90

I'm planning on leveling my yard April 6th weekend. My lawn never actually went fully dormant through the winter and is actively growing right now. My lawn is so bumpy that I can only mow to ~1.5" without scalping spots though. I know that mowing short makes it easier to work the sand in while leveling. Any advice? My push mower only goes to 1.25". I could mow at that HOC and deal with some scalping, or deal with extra work leveling on 1.5" grass, or weed eat the entire yard carefully to lower the grass height before leveling?


----------



## erdons

3/14/19

3/20/19


3/27/19

Only spots holding out are where I put at least 2-3 inches of sand.


----------



## Brackin4au

Reddog90 said:


> I'm planning on leveling my yard April 6th weekend. My lawn never actually went fully dormant through the winter and is actively growing right now. My lawn is so bumpy that I can only mow to ~1.5" without scalping spots though. I know that mowing short makes it easier to work the sand in while leveling. Any advice? My push mower only goes to 1.25". I could mow at that HOC and deal with some scalping, or deal with extra work leveling on 1.5" grass, or weed eat the entire yard carefully to lower the grass height before leveling?


I'd drop it down as far as it'll go. You're going to have recovery time while the grass grows through the sand anyway. So the scalp marks will recover during then too. Just make sure you get the sand down under the grass canopy and onto the soil. Trickier at higher HOC.


----------



## Jacob_S

I am starting to make plans to level next month, I know it has been talked about in this thread and I do actually plan to take time and skim through all 27 pages again. But on fertilizer after, is there a "preferred" choice? I plan on either 41-0-0 urea or 21-0-0 AS, what are the pros/cons of these? If I remember correctly the last time I dug through this thread something had me leaning to the AS over the urea. Also FWIW I was planning on doing .25lb N/weekly during grow in post level.
I am also heavily considering getting some GCF 18-0-1 greene punch for added liquid encouragement, but this may or may not happen.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Jacob_S

My drag mat came today, after moving moving it in the garage I feel like I may regret going with the 4 1/2' x 5' it has a bit of weight to it.


----------



## erdons

Jacob_S said:


> My drag mat came today, after moving moving it in the garage I feel like I may regret going with the 4 1/2' x 5' it has a bit of weight to it.


Those things are heavy, as far as your question about best fertilizer after leveling, I use urea and it's always worked great..


----------



## Jacob_S

erdons said:


> Jacob_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> My drag mat came today, after moving moving it in the garage I feel like I may regret going with the 4 1/2' x 5' it has a bit of weight to it.
> 
> 
> 
> Those things are heavy, as far as your question about best fertilizer after leveling, I use urea and it's always worked great..
Click to expand...

 :thumbup: I told my GF the mat was heavy, her response was, "guess we will get a good workout". Its quite nice having a supportive partner, the ex did not appreciate my lawn hobby.


----------



## erdons

Jacob_S said:


> erdons said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jacob_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> My drag mat came today, after moving moving it in the garage I feel like I may regret going with the 4 1/2' x 5' it has a bit of weight to it.
> 
> 
> 
> Those things are heavy, as far as your question about best fertilizer after leveling, I use urea and it's always worked great..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :thumbup: I told my GF the mat was heavy, her response was, "guess we will get a good workout". Its quite nice having a supportive partner, the ex did not appreciate my lawn hobby.
Click to expand...

Mine doesn't appreciate per say but has never complained about all the time I spent working on the lawn..


----------



## BakerGreenLawnMaker

Redtwin said:


> I did some leveling (over 16 yards of sand) over the weekend and it would have killed me to do it in hotter weather. I do plan on hitting it again once it recovers a bit, but that will be a much lighter coat. Hopefully, I can recruit some help.
> 
> Free beer and pizza anyone?


Beer, pizza and leveling a lawn? Bro, I'm on. The. Way! Lol!!!


----------



## lvlikeyv

BakerGreenLawnMaker said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did some leveling (over 16 yards of sand) over the weekend and it would have killed me to do it in hotter weather. I do plan on hitting it again once it recovers a bit, but that will be a much lighter coat. Hopefully, I can recruit some help.
> 
> Free beer and pizza anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beer, pizza and leveling a lawn? Bro, I'm on. The. Way! Lol!!!
Click to expand...

I would definitely be in as well if I was in the area.


----------



## Reddog90

Jacob_S said:


> My drag mat came today, after moving moving it in the garage I feel like I may regret going with the 4 1/2' x 5' it has a bit of weight to it.


Thanks for bringing this up. I'm trying to decide between ordering the 3'x3' or 5'x3' mat on amazon. I'll be pulling it by hand. I assumed each pass of the larger mat would be harder on the body but more effective at leveling. What are most people using?


----------



## DR_GREENTHUMB

I purchased the 5x3, no problems pulling it by hand.


----------



## Jacob_S

Reddog90 said:


> Thanks for bringing this up. I'm trying to decide between ordering the 3'x3' or 5'x3' mat on amazon. I'll be pulling it by hand. I assumed each pass of the larger mat would be harder on the body but more effective at leveling. What are most people using?


My project is planned for next weekend, I'll update after.


----------



## lucas287

Reddog90 said:


> Jacob_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> My drag mat came today, after moving moving it in the garage I feel like I may regret going with the 4 1/2' x 5' it has a bit of weight to it.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for bringing this up. I'm trying to decide between ordering the 3'x3' or 5'x3' mat on amazon. I'll be pulling it by hand. I assumed each pass of the larger mat would be harder on the body but more effective at leveling. What are most people using?
Click to expand...

I just bought a 3 x 3 off amazon and will be using it this weekend!! Keeping it small because I'm dragging my hand and my yard is small too. I'll update with how it does!


----------



## Ahab1997

lucas287 said:


> I just bought a 3 x 3 off amazon and will be using it this weekend!! Keeping it small because I'm dragging my hand and my yard is small too. I'll update with how it does!


Might want to double-check the weather for Saturday...


----------



## CenlaLowell

lucas287 said:


> Reddog90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jacob_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> My drag mat came today, after moving moving it in the garage I feel like I may regret going with the 4 1/2' x 5' it has a bit of weight to it.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for bringing this up. I'm trying to decide between ordering the 3'x3' or 5'x3' mat on amazon. I'll be pulling it by hand. I assumed each pass of the larger mat would be harder on the body but more effective at leveling. What are most people using?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just bought a 3 x 3 off amazon and will be using it this weekend!! Keeping it small because I'm dragging my hand and my yard is small too. I'll update with how it does!
Click to expand...

I brought a 3x3 as well and changed the connection. I can't do anything this weekend because of the rain, but as soon as I get 3-4 good days in a row I will order a load of sand.


----------



## lucas287

Ahab1997 said:


> lucas287 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just bought a 3 x 3 off amazon and will be using it this weekend!! Keeping it small because I'm dragging my hand and my yard is small too. I'll update with how it does!
> 
> 
> 
> Might want to double-check the weather for Saturday...
Click to expand...

Thanks for looking out! But I've been patiently watching that storm all week in the forecast! Anything less than 2" and my backyard will be dry enough to do it on Sunday!


----------



## TN Hawkeye

What is the best way to bring up an area that is more than a few inches below the rest of the lawn? I've got an area near the road in front of my house that has a fairly large dip in it. I'd like to bring this up to almost level with the road. Would the best strategy be to just add soil in layers (tamping in between) until it is raised up and then plug or sprig the area? Would it be better to use soil (mostly clay) from another part of my yard so the profile matches what is around it? After it is established I could then use sand to level it with the surrounding lawn.

It hard to see in the photo but the low area extends out about 6' from the road as well.


----------



## manthatsnice

TN Hawkeye said:


> What is the best way to bring up an area that is more than a few inches below the rest of the lawn? I've got an area near the road in front of my house that has a fairly large dip in it. I'd like to bring this up to almost level with the road. Would the best strategy be to just add soil in layers (tamping in between) until it is raised up and then plug or sprig the area? Would it be better to use soil (mostly clay) from another part of my yard so the profile matches what is around it? After it is established I could then use sand to level it with the surrounding lawn.
> 
> It hard to see in the photo but the low area extends out about 6' from the road as well.


I just did some plastic surgery where I scooped out an area of turf with a shovel, added some sand/soil in the resulting hole, then laid it back down. To me that's the best way to do it.


----------



## ctrav

I like your thinking @manthatsnice!


----------



## TN Hawkeye

manthatsnice said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the best way to bring up an area that is more than a few inches below the rest of the lawn? I've got an area near the road in front of my house that has a fairly large dip in it. I'd like to bring this up to almost level with the road. Would the best strategy be to just add soil in layers (tamping in between) until it is raised up and then plug or sprig the area? Would it be better to use soil (mostly clay) from another part of my yard so the profile matches what is around it? After it is established I could then use sand to level it with the surrounding lawn.
> 
> It hard to see in the photo but the low area extends out about 6' from the road as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just did some plastic surgery where I scooped out an area of turf with a shovel, added some sand/soil in the resulting hole, then laid it back down. To me that's the best way to do it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. I guess this would be best to do while the grass is in full growth, maybe in June or July?


----------



## manthatsnice

Sure it would be best but I would consider doing it now (I actually did it yesterday) so that you can really clean it up later during full growth. Especially since yours looks like it wouldn't be a huge eye sore if it took a minute to grow in.

Just my 2 cents but I'm willing to suffer through a bit of a late green up to be able to take care of these huge problem areas completely by the end of the summer.


----------



## TN Hawkeye

manthatsnice said:


> Sure it would be best but I would consider doing it now (I actually did it yesterday) so that you can really clean it up later during full growth. Especially since yours looks like it wouldn't be a huge eye sore if it took a minute to grow in.
> 
> Just my 2 cents but I'm willing to suffer through a bit of a late green up to be able to take care of these huge problem areas completely by the end of the summer.


Good point. I'll have to see what I can get accomplished in the next bit. Thanks again.


----------



## sock

Guys, do you think some garden soil will be good to use to fill up a few low spots in my lawn? Home Depot and Lowes currently have 0.75 cuft bags for $2 a pop.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Miracle-Gro-0-75-cu-ft-All-Purpose-Garden-Soil-75030430/206553445


----------



## lvlikeyv

TN Hawkeye said:


> manthatsnice said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it would be best but I would consider doing it now (I actually did it yesterday) so that you can really clean it up later during full growth. Especially since yours looks like it wouldn't be a huge eye sore if it took a minute to grow in.
> 
> Just my 2 cents but I'm willing to suffer through a bit of a late green up to be able to take care of these huge problem areas completely by the end of the summer.
> 
> 
> 
> Good point. I'll have to see what I can get accomplished in the next bit. Thanks again.
Click to expand...

I'm just over hearing laughing at your signature. :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## TN Hawkeye

lvlikeyv said:


> TN Hawkeye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manthatsnice said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it would be best but I would consider doing it now (I actually did it yesterday) so that you can really clean it up later during full growth. Especially since yours looks like it wouldn't be a huge eye sore if it took a minute to grow in.
> 
> Just my 2 cents but I'm willing to suffer through a bit of a late green up to be able to take care of these huge problem areas completely by the end of the summer.
> 
> 
> 
> Good point. I'll have to see what I can get accomplished in the next bit. Thanks again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm just over hearing laughing at your signature. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

Thanks. I tend to have a dry sense of humor. Some people don't get me. Glad you did.


----------



## Two9tene

sock said:


> Guys, do you think some garden soil will be good to use to fill up a few low spots in my lawn? Home Depot and Lowes currently have 0.75 cuft bags for $2 a pop.
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Miracle-Gro-0-75-cu-ft-All-Purpose-Garden-Soil-75030430/206553445


Brother that soil will get you a whole bunch of this:

Made the mistake of top dressing with cheap soil from Homedepot $1.75 a bag!



The top soil had tons of debris in it as you can see. Well you get what you pay for I guess.


----------



## TN Hawkeye

Two9tene said:


> sock said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys, do you think some garden soil will be good to use to fill up a few low spots in my lawn? Home Depot and Lowes currently have 0.75 cuft bags for $2 a pop.
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Miracle-Gro-0-75-cu-ft-All-Purpose-Garden-Soil-75030430/206553445
> 
> 
> 
> Brother that soil will get you a whole bunch of this:
> 
> Made the mistake of top dressing with cheap soil from Homedepot $1.75 a bag!
> 
> 
> 
> The top soil had tons of debris in it as you can see. Well you get what you pay for I guess.
Click to expand...

At $2 a bag a person could make a cheap screen box from scrap 2x4s and a 5' piece of 1/2" squared metal fence and still come out ahead if they do more than 4 bags. Make a 2' x 2' box and offset 2 pieces of the fencing so it has 1/4" holes and it would catch a lot of that. It might be a pain to screen each bag but that's over 50% off each bag. Plus he's not reel mowing.


----------



## Jacob_S

Note to all, if you plan to pull a drag mat by hand do yourself a favor and DON'T get the 4.5x5' eff, this is much harder work than I thought it would be. But will be so worth it in the end.


----------



## lucas287

Jacob_S said:


> Note to all, if you plan to pull a drag mat by hand do yourself a favor and DON'T get the 4.5x5' eff, this is much harder work than I thought it would be. But will be so worth it in the end.


I bet! The 3x3 is heavy enough. Although not quite long enough. At least with the short, rope handle it came with! The first foot of the mat is rendered useless because the rope lifts it off the ground.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

lucas287 said:


> Jacob_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> Note to all, if you plan to pull a drag mat by hand do yourself a favor and DON'T get the 4.5x5' eff, this is much harder work than I thought it would be. But will be so worth it in the end.
> 
> 
> 
> I bet! The 3x3 is heavy enough. Although not quite long enough. At least with the short, rope handle it came with! The first foot of the mat is rendered useless because the rope lifts it off the ground.
Click to expand...

I have the 3x3 but haven't used it yet. Is there a way to get around this?


----------



## lucas287

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> lucas287 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jacob_S said:
> 
> 
> 
> Note to all, if you plan to pull a drag mat by hand do yourself a favor and DON'T get the 4.5x5' eff, this is much harder work than I thought it would be. But will be so worth it in the end.
> 
> 
> 
> I bet! The 3x3 is heavy enough. Although not quite long enough. At least with the short, rope handle it came with! The first foot of the mat is rendered useless because the rope lifts it off the ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have the 3x3 but haven't used it yet. Is there a way to get around this?
Click to expand...

I'm thinking a longer pull handle/rope...

I had some old overload leafs from my pickup laying around and I ziptied on of them to the front leading edge. That helped but then it added 30 pounds lol.


----------



## Reddog90

Fresh mow at 1.5", which is as low as I can go with my lumpy yard. I have 4 yards of masonry sand being delivered tomorrow afternoon to level on Saturday. Neighbor told me yesterday evening that I needed to let my bermuda grow taller and let it seed out to get my turf thicker. I don't think he'll like my scalp and sand this weekend.


----------



## lucas287

Reddog90 said:


> Fresh mow at 1.5", which is as low as I can go with my lumpy yard. I have 4 yards of masonry sand being delivered tomorrow afternoon to level on Saturday. Neighbor told me yesterday evening that I needed to let my bermuda grow taller and let it seed out to get my turf thicker. I don't think he'll like my scalp and sand this weekend.


HAAAA! oh that's funny right there. Do you have tif 419? Cause tif is just shooting blanks!


----------



## Coach8

I have a fairly large yard (just under 10K front yard). Definitely need to level as its pretty bumpy. Has anyone had success with leveling their yard in sections? With my job, it's hard for me to devote full days to that kind of stuff and was wondering if doing say 1K sq. feet at a time is a feasible thing or if it will work better/be more effective to do it all at once?


----------



## erdons

Coach8 said:


> I have a fairly large yard (just under 10K front yard). Definitely need to level as its pretty bumpy. Has anyone had success with leveling their yard in sections? With my job, it's hard for me to devote full days to that kind of stuff and was wondering if doing say 1K sq. feet at a time is a feasible thing or if it will work better/be more effective to do it all at once?


Of course you can do it in sections. The body and time only allow for so much to be done, My yard is only about 1000sq ft and that's usually half a day of work.


----------



## Reddog90

lucas287 said:


> Reddog90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fresh mow at 1.5", which is as low as I can go with my lumpy yard. I have 4 yards of masonry sand being delivered tomorrow afternoon to level on Saturday. Neighbor told me yesterday evening that I needed to let my bermuda grow taller and let it seed out to get my turf thicker. I don't think he'll like my scalp and sand this weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HAAAA! oh that's funny right there. Do you have tif 419? Cause tif is just shooting blanks!
Click to expand...

No I have celebration. I don't know if it shoots blanks actually.

Am I OK to use milorganite after I level? I've read it's good to use a fast acting fertilizer like ammonium sulfate but I can't find any locally. I have enough milorganite on hand to put out 1.4 lb N/k sf.


----------



## erdons

Reddog90 said:


> lucas287 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reddog90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fresh mow at 1.5", which is as low as I can go with my lumpy yard. I have 4 yards of masonry sand being delivered tomorrow afternoon to level on Saturday. Neighbor told me yesterday evening that I needed to let my bermuda grow taller and let it seed out to get my turf thicker. I don't think he'll like my scalp and sand this weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HAAAA! oh that's funny right there. Do you have tif 419? Cause tif is just shooting blanks!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I have celebration. I don't know if it shoots blanks actually.
> 
> Am I OK to use milorganite after I level? I've read it's good to use a fast acting fertilizer like ammonium sulfate but I can't find any locally. I have enough milorganite on hand to put out 1.4 lb N/k sf.
Click to expand...

You can although it's slow and expensive... find some 46-0-0 urea and let er rip. Ammonium sulfate is good too.


----------



## Reddog90

erdons said:


> Reddog90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lucas287 said:
> 
> 
> 
> HAAAA! oh that's funny right there. Do you have tif 419? Cause tif is just shooting blanks!
> 
> 
> 
> No I have celebration. I don't know if it shoots blanks actually.
> 
> Am I OK to use milorganite after I level? I've read it's good to use a fast acting fertilizer like ammonium sulfate but I can't find any locally. I have enough milorganite on hand to put out 1.4 lb N/k sf.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can although it's slow and expensive... find some 46-0-0 urea and let er rip. Ammonium sulfate is good too.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I couldn't find any locally, but I found 5 lb bags for $14 on amazon prime. I get Milo for ~$17/36lb bag around here.


----------



## J_nick

@Reddog90 Celebration is a hybrid cultivar, the seeds they produce are sterile. So yep, shooting blanks


----------



## Jacob_S

@Reddog90 There are a few Ewing stores in Houston, try there, that is where I got my 46-0-0 the other day, I also buy greenTRX there as my regular fertilizer.


----------



## Reddog90

Thanks @J_nick

@Jacob_S way cheaper at Ewing. Thanks.


----------



## Darrell_KC

Im looking at doing some leveling of my lawn, and had some questions as well. I think I have a few answered from posts, but I want to make sure my understanding is solid before I go get myself in trouble.

I have a lot of bare spots in the backyard, and most of my ground is fairly firm clay. Most of my yard is sloped, and the slope in the backyard is fairly sharp. Here is a link to my lawn journal with pictures. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8086 I will try to get some newer pictures up this weekend. I removed the dead trees last week, and filled the holes with a mix of topsoil and organic soil, and kept adding layers, wet it, stomped it in and tried to level with a rake.

My question comes, on areas that have a large open space, should I first try to get seed growing and grass established, and then worry about leveling later in the year? If I try to level now with a sand/soil mix, will the sand cause my clay to turn to concrete? Or worse, with no turf present, will water/rain just wash the sand/soil mix down?


----------



## CenlaLowell

I plan on leveling again this season and I have a few questions.

First, after dragging do y'all fertilize, if so would 33-0-0 be appropriate for this?

Second, do you all water directly afterwards or wait a few days?

As soon as we get consistent hot weather I will call a truck in here to get things started.


----------



## erdons

33-0-0 should be ok if that's what you have, I usually apply fertilizer right after sanding then water it in and actually increase my waterings to every other day and it usually helps the sand disappear rather quickly.


----------



## Reddog90

Man. This is a lot of work. The wife is a trooper and is doing the hauling and dumping while I rake and drag. Got the yard scalped and about half leveled yesterday evening, back at it this morning. Scalping was a little unnerving. I removed all of the green in a lot of the yard. The high traffic areas near the patio that the dogs play in are still green though. Hopefully the urea brings it all back quickly.


----------



## jjepeto

Looks awesome @Reddog90. Can't wait to see the results. It's so nice to have help!


----------



## TN Hawkeye

@Reddog90 looking good. I love the dog just sitting there looking at you like "What are you guys doing? Wanna play?"


----------



## Visitor

jjepeto said:


> Looks awesome @Reddog90. Can't wait to see the results. It's so nice to have help!


+1


----------



## Visitor

TN Hawkeye said:


> @Reddog90 looking good. I love the dog just sitting there looking at you like "What are you guys doing? Wanna play?"


+1


----------



## BassBoss

Moved 22,000 lbs of damp sand yesterday. Used the gorilla cart to place mounds, then used a shovel to place mini mounds around them. Needless to say, I was aching in places that have never ached before. I have a few questions for the leveling pros here.

I noticed when using my drag mat I got from amazon(the 4.5x5 one) the sand would build up on the mat after one or two rounds. Was this because sand was damp? Seemed like it was very difficult to move sand around. Used a push broom right much to move sand but there are a bunch of thick spots left.

I sort of rushed all day yesterday to get it done because today is a rainy washout day and wanted to utilize the rain. Is it possible to get back out there tomorrow and move some more sand from the thick mounds that were left and move them to some low spots and use the drag again? Does it need to be completely dry?

Thanks TLF for a great place to learn and thanks for the people who share knowledge.


----------



## BassBoss

I didn't have opportunity to snap photo when I finished yesterday because it was dark and started to rain. These are some pics I took a few minutes ago. Nevermind the sweet potatoes, they are marking some low spots.


----------



## ctrav

Excellent hard work @BassBoss! I have not done sand yet but the buildup on the drag mat seems like it would be due to the wet sant...


----------



## erdons

BassBoss said:


> Moved 22,000 lbs of damp sand yesterday. Used the gorilla cart to place mounds, then used a shovel to place mini mounds around them. Needless to say, I was aching in places that have never ached before. I have a few questions for the leveling pros here.
> 
> I noticed when using my drag mat I got from amazon(the 4.5x5 one) the sand would build up on the mat after one or two rounds. Was this because sand was damp? Seemed like it was very difficult to move sand around. Used a push broom right much to move sand but there are a bunch of thick spots left.
> 
> I sort of rushed all day yesterday to get it done because today is a rainy washout day and wanted to utilize the rain. Is it possible to get back out there tomorrow and move some more sand from the thick mounds that were left and move them to some low spots and use the drag again? Does it need to be completely dry?
> 
> Thanks TLF for a great place to learn and thanks for the people who share knowledge.


Most likely it was building up because the sand was damp, yes you can go back and work the Sand more.


----------



## Reddog90

@BassBoss My sand was damp as well and it built up on my drag mat pretty badly. It wasn't hot and sunny enough to dry the sand as I spread it. The sand also caked up on my push broom making it useless. I used the drag mat as much as I could, then spread urea and started to water. We got a short .3" shower this afternoon as well. I plan to water heavily, let everything dry for a couple days, then maybe use the drag mat again. This is 4.5 yards on ~3,400 sf.


----------



## lucas287

Same problem here! Put down wet sand last weekend and it was miserable all the way around. Heavier to shovel, heavier to wheelbarrow, harder to spread, and my drag mat caked up after a couple passes.

3 days later it was dry and spread very easily with the drag mat!


----------



## Reddog90

4.13.19, post dragging wet sand. Too wet to broom. Pre watering.









4.17.19, watered ~1" the weekend before, then ran the drag mat some more before this picture.









4.20.19, ~3.5" of rain total over the week and some new growth.

The yard seems slick flat now, but definitely not level. I have some drainage issues to address over the next couple years, but at least my yard isn't lumpy anymore.


----------



## ctrav

Wow @Reddog90...you put down 4.5 yards on 3400 sf and I did 2.5 yards on about the same area. Maybe I should have gone heavier??


----------



## Reddog90

ctrav said:


> Wow @Reddog90...you put down 4.5 yards on 3400 sf and I did 2.5 yards on about the same area. Maybe I should have gone heavier??


I was thinking I might have gone too heavy. My yard was extremely lumpy though. I guess we'll both know in a couple months.


----------



## CenlaLowell

When is the best time to get some sand? I'm wondering if it's to early for me I'm in Central Louisiana.


----------



## Talental

Unfortunately I thought I was paying for leveling but got top dressing of 0.5 inches of sand. Really disappointed however I guess it's better than nothing. 
My question is I applied GreenTRX 1lb/1000sqft about 2 weeks ago. Should I go ahead and apply something like a 46-0-0 urea product to really speed up the growing? 
Or just let it be and add more GreenTRX in about a month? I have Meyer zosyia.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

New to the forum, first post. Live in the Fort Worth area and have a tiff 419 yard. Almost 30k sq feet, new build, sodded in Oct and Nov of last year so the lawn is roughly 6 months old. The builders did a horrible job with grade and prep so I have lots of high and low spots as well as weed issues. I'm sure there are probably rocks under the sod too. Could I do some leveling this summer or should I wait a year for the roots to really develop and get my weed issues under control? Thanks for any help provided.


----------



## Kicker

Philly_Gunner said:


> New to the forum, first post. Live in the Fort Worth area and have a tiff 419 yard. Almost 30k sq feet, new build, sodded in Oct and Nov of last year so the lawn is roughly 6 months old. The builders did a horrible job with grade and prep so I have lots of high and low spots as well as weed issues. I'm sure there are probably rocks under the sod too. Could I do some leveling this summer or should I wait a year for the roots to really develop and get my weed issues under control? Thanks for any help provided.


I would go ahead and level the best you can if the sod has started to root. You can always blanket or spot spray with celsius for any weed pressure you have. You will undoubtedly find things buried within your lawn for a few years to come. I'm in my 3rd year at my home and i'm still finding glass bottles, rocks, bricks, 2x4/2x6's, that some how show up randomly after the dirt settles more and more..

Just know leveling won't be a one time thing, especially with how much settling is going to take place over the next few years.


----------



## ctrav

Philly_Gunner said:


> New to the forum, first post. Live in the Fort Worth area and have a tiff 419 yard. Almost 30k sq feet, new build, sodded in Oct and Nov of last year so the lawn is roughly 6 months old. The builders did a horrible job with grade and prep so I have lots of high and low spots as well as weed issues. I'm sure there are probably rocks under the sod too. Could I do some leveling this summer or should I wait a year for the roots to really develop and get my weed issues under control? Thanks for any help provided.


Been in our home for just over 2 years and I pulled these out a couple of weeks ago...


----------



## Philly_Gunner

Awesome!! Thanks for the replies, I appreciate it. I'm still very nervous about herbicide application (other than weed and feed) as I feel I'm gonna mix or spray it incorrectly and kill my entire lawn. I'm hoping to meet someone in the area that could help me in that regard. Anyway, looking forward to gaining a lot of knowledge and a better lawn in the process. Thanks!

Nick


----------



## ZachUA

I am looking to level about 10k sq feet of Bermuda. My home sits about 6-8 feet (guessing here) higher than the road so the lawn slopes toward the road over a distance of about 45 feet. Would the sand just wash into the road?


----------



## smusgrav

ctrav said:


> Philly_Gunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> New to the forum, first post. Live in the Fort Worth area and have a tiff 419 yard. Almost 30k sq feet, new build, sodded in Oct and Nov of last year so the lawn is roughly 6 months old. The builders did a horrible job with grade and prep so I have lots of high and low spots as well as weed issues. I'm sure there are probably rocks under the sod too. Could I do some leveling this summer or should I wait a year for the roots to really develop and get my weed issues under control? Thanks for any help provided.
> 
> 
> 
> Been in our home for just over 2 years and I pulled these out a couple of weeks ago...
Click to expand...


Here is my current rock on I am working on. To big for shovel resorted to sledgehammer.


----------



## ZachUA

Reddog90 said:


> ctrav said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow @Reddog90...you put down 4.5 yards on 3400 sf and I did 2.5 yards on about the same area. Maybe I should have gone heavier??
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking I might have gone too heavy. My yard was extremely lumpy though. I guess we'll both know in a couple months.
Click to expand...

How did you decide the amount of sand to have delivered? I just used a surface top dressing calculator (https://waupacasand.com/solutions/golf-courses/calculators/surface-topdressing-material-calculator/) and it is telling me to cover 10k sq ft 1" deep I'll need 30 yards.


----------



## Kicker

ZachUA said:


> Reddog90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ctrav said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow @Reddog90...you put down 4.5 yards on 3400 sf and I did 2.5 yards on about the same area. Maybe I should have gone heavier??
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking I might have gone too heavy. My yard was extremely lumpy though. I guess we'll both know in a couple months.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How did you decide the amount of sand to have delivered? I just used a surface top dressing calculator (https://waupacasand.com/solutions/golf-courses/calculators/surface-topdressing-material-calculator/) and it is telling me to cover 10k sq ft 1" deep I'll need 30 yards.
Click to expand...

the general consensus is 1 cubic yard per 1k sq ft.


----------



## ZachUA

Kicker said:


> ZachUA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reddog90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking I might have gone too heavy. My yard was extremely lumpy though. I guess we'll both know in a couple months.
> 
> 
> 
> How did you decide the amount of sand to have delivered? I just used a surface top dressing calculator (https://waupacasand.com/solutions/golf-courses/calculators/surface-topdressing-material-calculator/) and it is telling me to cover 10k sq ft 1" deep I'll need 30 yards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the general consensus is 1 cubic yard per 1k sq ft.
Click to expand...

Ok thank you! The thought of having 30 yards of sand delivered to my driveway was not enticing in the least. I can handle 10 yards.

Just got a quote of 42.00 per yard for agricultural sand, plus a 65.00 delivery fee. Total for 10 yards would be 485 plus tax. Is that about going rate?


----------



## Spammage

ZachUA said:


> Kicker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZachUA said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did you decide the amount of sand to have delivered? I just used a surface top dressing calculator (https://waupacasand.com/solutions/golf-courses/calculators/surface-topdressing-material-calculator/) and it is telling me to cover 10k sq ft 1" deep I'll need 30 yards.
> 
> 
> 
> the general consensus is 1 cubic yard per 1k sq ft.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok thank you! The thought of having 30 yards of sand delivered to my driveway was not enticing in the least. I can handle 10 yards.
> 
> Just got a quote of 42.00 per yard for agricultural sand, plus a 65.00 delivery fee. Total for 10 yards would be 485 plus tax. Is that about going rate?
Click to expand...

What is "agricultural sand"? You will want to make sure you aren't getting a bunch of small pebbles/stones if you are cutting reel low.


----------



## ZachUA

Spammage said:


> ZachUA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kicker said:
> 
> 
> 
> the general consensus is 1 cubic yard per 1k sq ft.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok thank you! The thought of having 30 yards of sand delivered to my driveway was not enticing in the least. I can handle 10 yards.
> 
> Just got a quote of 42.00 per yard for agricultural sand, plus a 65.00 delivery fee. Total for 10 yards would be 485 plus tax. Is that about going rate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is "agricultural sand"? You will want to make sure you aren't getting a bunch of small pebbles/stones if you are cutting reel low.
Click to expand...

I wondered the same thing. The place I called was a sod farm (also sells soil and sand) and told them I needed sand to level my yard. That's what they recommended. I'll call back to ask about whether it has pebbles.


----------



## captstoots

When leveling next to a sidewalk or driveway, do you want the sand even with the concrete surface or a little below?

I am patently waiting my neglected bermuda lawn to thicken up and fill in some bare spots. Should I wait until late summer to start a level project after the grass has thickened up?


----------



## Brackin4au

captstoots said:


> When leveling next to a sidewalk or driveway, do you want the sand even with the concrete surface or a little below?
> 
> I am patently waiting my neglected bermuda lawn to thicken up and fill in some bare spots. Should I wait until late summer to start a level project after the grass has thickened up?


I like the turf to be level with concrete, or a little ABOVE, actually. That way you don't have to worry about ruining a bedknife/reel when cutting along the edges...


----------



## manthatsnice

Brackin4au said:


> captstoots said:
> 
> 
> 
> When leveling next to a sidewalk or driveway, do you want the sand even with the concrete surface or a little below?
> 
> I am patently waiting my neglected bermuda lawn to thicken up and fill in some bare spots. Should I wait until late summer to start a level project after the grass has thickened up?
> 
> 
> 
> I like the turf to be level with concrete, or a little ABOVE, actually. That way you don't have to worry about ruining a bedknife/reel when cutting along the edges...
Click to expand...

+1

The bedknife thing @Brackin4au mentioned has happened to me twice.


----------



## Reddog90

4.13.19









4.20.19









4.26.19


----------



## sanders4617

Question about using the sand to level.. Once the grass/roots take over the sand, do you really notice that you have a sand layer there? My soil is not sandy at all, so I'm just curious what it's like having all that sand just below your turf and if you notice sand being washed away, etc.. Odd question I guess. lol


----------



## MrMeaner

sanders4617 said:


> Question about using the sand to level.. Once the grass/roots take over the sand, do you really notice that you have a sand layer there? My soil is not sandy at all, so I'm just curious what it's like having all that sand just below your turf and if you notice sand being washed away, etc.. Odd question I guess. lol


Once grass covers the sand, the roots tends to lock everything together you won't notice the sand..it eventually just becomes part of the dirt underneath the grass if that makes sense.


----------



## T0R0

I got some of the 3 cu yards of mason sand down this afternoon. I want to level the front, side, & sidewalk strips. Not sure I'll have enough sand for the backyard. I ordered the 5' x3' drag mat from amazon and it worked pretty good, even for my smaller size area. My leveling rake from R&R is being delivered tomorrow so I'll have to compare it to the drag mat. I did notice with the drag mat you don't have fine control over the low spots because the mat will sink into the low spots somewhat. The mat does work great for getting the sand knocked down and pretty flat quickly.

Here are some pictures... I'll try to keep the progress updated.

5/9/19


----------



## ctrav

T0R0 said:


> I got some of the 3 cu yards of mason sand down this afternoon. I want to level the front, side, & sidewalk strips. Not sure I'll have enough sand for the backyard. I ordered the 5' x3' drag mat from amazon and it worked pretty good, even for my smaller size area. My leveling rake from R&R is being delivered tomorrow so I'll have to compare it to the drag mat. I did notice with the drag mat you don't have fine control over the low spots because the mat will sink into the low spots somewhat. The mat does work great for getting the sand knocked down and pretty flat quickly.
> 
> Here are some pictures... I'll try to keep the progress updated.
> 
> 5/9/19


Now that's a lot of sand! Great job on the lawn. Where did you order the drag mat? Didi you have to weigh it down?


----------



## T0R0

ctrav said:


> T0R0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got some of the 3 cu yards of mason sand down this afternoon. I want to level the front, side, & sidewalk strips. Not sure I'll have enough sand for the backyard. I ordered the 5' x3' drag mat from amazon and it worked pretty good, even for my smaller size area. My leveling rake from R&R is being delivered tomorrow so I'll have to compare it to the drag mat. I did notice with the drag mat you don't have fine control over the low spots because the mat will sink into the low spots somewhat. The mat does work great for getting the sand knocked down and pretty flat quickly.
> 
> Here are some pictures... I'll try to keep the progress updated.
> 
> 5/9/19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that's a lot of sand! Great job on the lawn. Where did you order the drag mat? Didi you have to weigh it down?
Click to expand...

Thank you! I got the mat from Amazon... it's the 5' x 3' version. I did throw a bag of fertilizer on top of it for a few passes but it wasn't really necessary.


----------



## ctrav

T0R0 said:


> ctrav said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T0R0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got some of the 3 cu yards of mason sand down this afternoon. I want to level the front, side, & sidewalk strips. Not sure I'll have enough sand for the backyard. I ordered the 5' x3' drag mat from amazon and it worked pretty good, even for my smaller size area. My leveling rake from R&R is being delivered tomorrow so I'll have to compare it to the drag mat. I did notice with the drag mat you don't have fine control over the low spots because the mat will sink into the low spots somewhat. The mat does work great for getting the sand knocked down and pretty flat quickly.
> 
> Here are some pictures... I'll try to keep the progress updated.
> 
> 5/9/19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that's a lot of sand! Great job on the lawn. Where did you order the drag mat? Didi you have to weigh it down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you! I got the mat from Amazon... it's the 5' x 3' version. I did throw a bag of fertilizer on top of it for a few passes but it wasn't really necessary.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback...


----------



## Kicker

T0R0 said:


> ctrav said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T0R0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got some of the 3 cu yards of mason sand down this afternoon. I want to level the front, side, & sidewalk strips. Not sure I'll have enough sand for the backyard. I ordered the 5' x3' drag mat from amazon and it worked pretty good, even for my smaller size area. My leveling rake from R&R is being delivered tomorrow so I'll have to compare it to the drag mat. I did notice with the drag mat you don't have fine control over the low spots because the mat will sink into the low spots somewhat. The mat does work great for getting the sand knocked down and pretty flat quickly.
> 
> Here are some pictures... I'll try to keep the progress updated.
> 
> 5/9/19
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that's a lot of sand! Great job on the lawn. Where did you order the drag mat? Didi you have to weigh it down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you! I got the mat from Amazon... it's the 5' x 3' version. I did throw a bag of fertilizer on top of it for a few passes but it wasn't really necessary.
Click to expand...

I've read of people modifying the drag mats so that they don't sink down into the depressions.

They just moved the solid bar at the front of the drag mat to one of the sides and when drug that way the linkages don't articulate down into the depressions. Some modifications would need to be done since yours is rectangular instead of square, but i imagine it could be done. Since you got the R&R rake, you won't really need to do it but just thought i'd pass it along.


----------



## Jordan90

What do you guys pull the drag with?


----------



## T0R0

@Kicker Thanks for that tip.

After using both the R&R Leveling rake and the drag mat today I like the drag mat for major leveling, it makes quick work of spreading the sand out evenly. The rake is good for fine tuning your leveling job or to get out the slight dips the drag mat won't get out.

I have a little less than a cu yard of sand left and have not touched the backyard yet. I'm glad I couldn't get to the backyard because I have more shade back there and the bermuda is thin. I did some major tree trimming earlier this year to allow more sun in the back. After I get the grass filled in this year I'll probably level it next year.

Here's today's progress:

5/10/19


----------



## ctrav

Jordan90 said:


> What do you guys pull the drag with?


I would use my zero turn mower but I saw my neighbor doing by hand pulling that thing around. He didn't put much sand down at all!


----------



## Jordan90

That's my catch. Nothing to pull with. Could go get my ATV at the farm I guess.


----------



## T0R0

@Jordan90 The 5' x 3' drag mat was easy for me to pull by hand, even in sand that was damp from rain. I didn't have too big of an area to drag though.


----------



## Jordan90

Thank you


----------



## mhale09

After lurking on here for a few months, I decided to take the plunge and sand my back yard. I have TifTuf Bermuda sod in the back - right at 3,500 square feet. Ordered 7 tons of USGA Topdressing sand from RSI, Inc. here in Georgia. Very similar to masonry sand, but a little more fine. Sand was pretty wet due to the rain this weekend, but went down fine. I have a 3X5 drag that I bought on amazon to help smooth it out, but like others have said, with the wet sand it had the tendency to clump. We have a few dry days ahead of us, so I am going to keep hitting it with the drag in the evenings to continue to work it down into the grass. 
Applied a 29-0-4 fertilizer 3 days before sanding at about half the normal rate, and plan to apply the other 1/2 rate in the next day or so.

The back area I did fairly lightly as that portion of the grass is weaker and does not receive as much sun. Front ended up a little heavier than I would have preferred, but I think it will be ok (fingers crossed).

5-11-19


5-11-19


5-11-19


5-12-19


5-13-19


----------



## ctrav

Great job @mhale09 :thumbup:


----------



## PokeGrande

Beach party! Welcome to the club, @mhale09.


----------



## jayhawk

You'll be fine! Keep us updated. Always wanted to use RSI


----------



## Reddog90

@mhale09 did you water it in well? Looking forward to your 1 and 2 week mark pics.


----------



## mhale09

I did - we received about a half inch of rain on Saturday night, and then about an inch on Sunday. Was still pretty wet yesterday so I let it go, but will water after I drag it this evening. It's been cool here the last 2 days (highs only in the 70's) - but will be in the upper 80's by Friday so I definitely want to keep it somewhat damp.


----------



## JPorter

mhale09 said:


> After lurking on here for a few months, I decided to take the plunge and sand my back yard. I have TifTuf Bermuda sod in the back - right at 3,500 square feet. Ordered 7 tons of USGA Topdressing sand from RSI, Inc. here in Georgia. Very similar to masonry sand, but a little more fine. Sand was pretty wet due to the rain this weekend, but went down fine. I have a 3X5 drag that I bought on amazon to help smooth it out, but like others have said, with the wet sand it had the tendency to clump. We have a few dry days ahead of us, so I am going to keep hitting it with the drag in the evenings to continue to work it down into the grass.
> Applied a 29-0-4 fertilizer 3 days before sanding at about half the normal rate, and plan to apply the other 1/2 rate in the next day or so.
> 
> The back area I did fairly lightly as that portion of the grass is weaker and does not receive as much sun. Front ended up a little heavier than I would have preferred, but I think it will be ok (fingers crossed).
> 
> 5-11-19
> 
> 
> 5-11-19
> 
> 
> 5-11-19
> 
> 
> 5-12-19
> 
> 
> 5-13-19


Hell yeah. Looks great man, I bet it turns out perfect


----------



## ceturner82

I will be aerating my tiff 419 bermuda this weekend, then leveling with white masonry sand for the first time on Monday. After leveling, I will put down fert. I also have the N-Ext Bio stimulations pack. Should I consider putting any of those products down as well? I put T-Nex down 3 weeks ago, it should be wearing off soon. Should I be concerned about covering the lawn with sand. Your advice is appreciated.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

How soon before I level should I put down nitrogen? A week? A couple of days? I plan to use 46-0-0 urea and water it in well. I'm going to scalp a day or two before I level.


----------



## erdons

I apply it right after leveling.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

erdons said:


> I apply it right after leveling.


You wouldn't want to give the grass a boost before the sand? I didn't think the fertilizer would make it through the sand if I did it that way.


----------



## lvlikeyv

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> erdons said:
> 
> 
> 
> I apply it right after leveling.
> 
> 
> 
> You wouldn't want to give the grass a boost before the sand? I didn't think the fertilizer would make it through the sand if I did it that way.
Click to expand...

I believe there is concern with fertilizing before sanding due to the fact that you will be dragging the sand around and moving the granules possibly clumping them in one area.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

lvlikeyv said:


> Bermuda_Newbie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> erdons said:
> 
> 
> 
> I apply it right after leveling.
> 
> 
> 
> You wouldn't want to give the grass a boost before the sand? I didn't think the fertilizer would make it through the sand if I did it that way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe there is concern with fertilizing before sanding due to the fact that you will be dragging the sand around and moving the granules possibly clumping them in one area.
Click to expand...

I hadn't thought of that. So if one was to do it before, it would need to be quite a bit before to make sure it was all absorbed.


----------



## erdons

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> erdons said:
> 
> 
> 
> I apply it right after leveling.
> 
> 
> 
> You wouldn't want to give the grass a boost before the sand? I didn't think the fertilizer would make it through the sand if I did it that way.
Click to expand...

You want to apply the sand right after scalping you'll be able to see all the low areas where you need sand the most that way. The urea boost is to make the grass pop out through that sand.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

@erdons That was the plan, scalp the day before and sand the next morning. I was going to fertilize right after is scalped thinking it wouldn't grow overnight but would fill in under the sand. I didn't think of it bunching under the drag mat. Did you have any trouble with it reaching the grass when you fertilized over the sand?


----------



## AZPilot

Alan said:


> Flynt2799 said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI.....If you putting sand down in the front lawn, kids will have the urge to walk and ride there bikes through it. Actually adults will to for that matter.
> 
> 
> 
> Put up some crime scene tape. I can hear the convo now.
> 
> Neighbor(or kid): Did a crime occur here?
> Homeowner: Oh, the tape?
> Neighbor(or kid): Yeah!
> Homeowner: No, no crime yet, but if someone rides their bike or gets in the sand, a crime is likely to occur. I'm being proactive.
> 
> :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

Wonder how the conversation will go with my neighbor when it happens as he decided to drive over (2 times mind you) my sand about an hour after delivery. I had cones up and everything ran over those as well. I've come to the conclusion some adults inner child cannot resist mischievous ways.


----------



## erdons

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> @erdons That was the plan, scalp the day before and sand the next morning. I was going to fertilize right after is scalped thinking it wouldn't grow overnight but would fill in under the sand. I didn't think of it bunching under the drag mat. Did you have any trouble with it reaching the grass when you fertilized over the sand?


No that won't be an issue, from my understanding you are fertilizing the sand causing the grass to grow upward towards the sand and feed off the nitrogen.


----------



## joerob2211

Dump, spread, drag, water. Will let it dry out tomorrow and then drag again. Sand was a little wet already.


----------



## dmouw

Going to test out my new lawn leveler tomorrow with 10 yards of sand.


----------



## Hexadecimal 00FF00

dmouw said:


> Going to test out my new lawn leveler tomorrow with 10 yards of sand.


I like it, @dmouw. Looks like it will do well.


----------



## T0R0

Here's my one week update. Sand was spread on 5/10-5/11. I used about 2.50 - 2.75 cu yards of mason sand to cover 1500 sq ft (Front & Side lawn). I still have a little left of the original 3 yards to add some more sand where needed due to settling. I've already had to touch up a few of the deep spots due to settling.

Yard has been dragged with the 5'x3' amazon drag mat 3x now. I've also used the 36" R&R leveling rake to work the sand into some spots where the sand was not as deep and to get the smaller areas by the road smooth.

Today's pictures on top / original pictures on bottom.


----------



## Rickk567

joerob2211 said:


> Dump, spread, drag, water. Will let it dry out tomorrow and then drag again. Sand was a little wet already.


Looks great. Where did you get your sand?


----------



## Austinite

Recently....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GesKX7DlO6k


----------



## joerob2211

Rickk567 said:


> joerob2211 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dump, spread, drag, water. Will let it dry out tomorrow and then drag again. Sand was a little wet already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great. Where did you get your sand?
Click to expand...

Texas sand and gravel in Alvarado TX. Great service and quality screened mason sand.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

@joerob2211

What'd they charge per yard? Delivery?


----------



## ctrav

dmouw said:


> Going to test out my new lawn leveler tomorrow with 10 yards of sand.


Super cool idea you came up with...


----------



## jabopy

Another question about sand type! Is it the very fine sand or is it gritty? The stuff I used when laying bricks was quarry sand that was very fine, almost slimy when mixed, the river type sand is more gritty used for laying stone on a thicker bed. The latter giving better drainage.


----------



## T0R0

Bermuda poking up through the sand...



Gardenia bush is in full bloom! The smell is awesome!


----------



## joerob2211

Finished with the backyard late last night. Took 51 loads in the gorilla cart and I am whipped. Waiting on the rain.


----------



## Cheesetoast

7 to 8 yards of brick sand. Now it's raining and raining.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

Had 3 yards delivered and dumped in small piles on my yard. Spread it and used a landscape rake and drag mat. Threw down some 46-0-0 urea after the sand was spread and watered it in. Today I can barely walk. I don't know how you guys with 10k yards do this. Probably could have used another yard but I was going with 1 yard per 1k. It was a good first leveling. Can't wait to see how it turns out and do it again next year to get the areas I couldn't quite get perfect this year.


----------



## Cheesetoast

Less than 24 hours later, here we are.
Applied 7 to 8 yards of that NorTex Brick sand, Milo, grubex, and granule fungicide. Surprisingly, I'm not seeing much sand in the street.


----------



## Cheesetoast

I cut it at .5 inch before leveling, and want to know how long to wait before cutting it with the reel. I've been keeping my HOC at .5 since the beginning of this season, cutting every 4th day. Should I keep it at .5, or go higher for the next several weeks?


----------



## T0R0

Cheesetoast said:


> I cut it at .5 inch before leveling, and want to know how long to wait before cutting it with the reel. I've been keeping my HOC at .5 since the beginning of this season, cutting every 4th day. Should I keep it at .5, or go higher for the next several weeks?


I was just wondering the same thing! I'm thinking of just using my rotary mower until the grass fills in more. I just had my GM1000 sharpened and hate to dull it or get sand somewhere it shouldn't be... ie the bearings!

I'll probably do a light scalp and reset my HOC with the reel mower after I get the big areas filled in.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

It's been raining here for the past two days. This has resulted in some puddles in my sand. I'm assuming it's because of the sand that it's not sinking in because it doesn't normally make puddles on my lawn. The other theory could be it was so low I couldn't see puddles before. My question for all of you is is it worth buying a couple of bags of play sand and filling in these puddles since I can see where they are or should I just leave it until next year's leveling? I'm out of sand that was delivered but I think 3 bags of play sand would be enough.


----------



## erdons

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> Had 3 yards delivered and dumped in small piles on my yard. Spread it and used a landscape rake and drag mat. Threw down some 46-0-0 urea after the sand was spread and watered it in. Today I can barely walk. I don't know how you guys with 10k yards do this. Probably could have used another yard but I was going with 1 yard per 1k. It was a good first leveling. Can't wait to see how it turns out and do it again next year to get the areas I couldn't quite get perfect this year.


lol yes, always feel like i got hit by a car after leveling. You'll be surprised how fast the grass is going to pop through the sand.


----------



## erdons

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> It's been raining here for the past two days. This has resulted in some puddles in my sand. I'm assuming it's because of the sand that it's not sinking in because it doesn't normally make puddles on my lawn. The other theory could be it was so low I couldn't see puddles before. My question for all of you is is it worth buying a couple of bags of play sand and filling in these puddles since I can see where they are or should I just leave it until next year's leveling? I'm out of sand that was delivered but I think 3 bags of play sand would be enough.


Yes either play sand or the quikrete washed plaster sand would work great for that.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

@erdons I hope it comes back quickly. I'm getting the tree trimmed on Tuesday so I fertilized the heck out of my lawn to encourage it to grow back. I took your advice and put the nitrogen on top of the sand. With all the rain, it should have really soaked in. I'm just hoping I don't have a lot of sand to fix after the tree trimmers leave.


----------



## RLaschober

Leveled last thursday/friday (5/16-5/17) and within a few days and lots of rain lawn is already recovering well. We are going to be heading out of town and will either be able to mow 1) 6-7 days after leveling or 2) 13-15 days after leveling. Is option 2 too long?

5/17 backyard


5/17 after first water


5/18 mid rain


5/19
\
5/19


----------



## joerob2211

This is after 48 hours on the front lawn, sprinklers, rain, sprinklers. Will have pictures of the backyard this afternoon when the sand drys out and I can drag again.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

Newbie leveling question. How do you raise your sprinkler junction boxes when leveling your lawn so that they sit even with the grass and don't create a big divot in the lawn? I have 8 of them and they already sit pretty low.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

It's been since Friday that I leveled and now that the finer sand has worked it's way down, there are a lot of pebbles on the lawn. I used mason sand and also a bag of play sand which had the same tiny pebbles. Has anyone else had this? Is it normal? See pics below.






Second question:

My husband accidentally picked up paver sand at the store instead of play sand to add to a couple of low spots since we ran out of sand. He bought 6 bags of the stuff. Can I use this?


----------



## erdons

Where did you get the sand you used for the initial leveling? It might still be ok, I leveled with some sand that had pebbles like that and would manually pick the biggest ones, grass still filled in over it so it turned out ok. The paver sand actually doesn't look too bad, the pebbles don't seem too big on that one.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

erdons said:


> Where did you get the sand you used for the initial leveling? It might still be ok, I leveled with some sand that had pebbles like that and would manually pick the biggest ones, grass still filled in over it so it turned out ok. The paver sand actually doesn't look too bad, the pebbles don't seem too big on that one.


Ironically, the paver sand seems to be more uniform than the bag of play sand. I had landscapers get the sand for me but we discussed that I wanted mason sand and they said it was the same fine sand they used to put on top of synlawn so I think we were on the same page. The play sand I put down last week had the same tiny pebbles in it. Everyone's sand looks so fine in the photos that I'm hoping I didn't screw up my lawn. I want to mow lower this year and not have pebbles ruin my reel. I also don't want to have to vacuum my whole lawn again. I just did that to remove the pieces of stucco from our add-on. It's hard to show the size of the pebbles without something for scale. I probably should have put a ruler down. I think the largest ones are about 1/4" in diameter. How big to ding a reel?


----------



## dmouw

I had a similar issue with the river sand I used. Went cheap and now paying for it. Seemed all the sand worked in and left the pebbles on top so I'm just going to have to rake and scoop up.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

dmouw said:


> I had a similar issue with the river sand I used. Went cheap and now paying for it. Seemed all the sand worked in and left the pebbles on top so I'm just going to have to rake and scoop up.


How large were your pebbles?


----------



## Cavan806

I laid down a little sand this weekend.


----------



## Tmank87

Is that a Lanier truck I spied?


----------



## CreateEscapes

MrMeaner said:


> Excellent post - You should add your leveling pictures here MQ


Yes please. Sharing is caring


----------



## Cavan806

Tmank87 said:


> Is that a Lanier truck I spied?


It is! On time and exactly as ordered.


----------



## Tmank87

Cavan806 said:


> Tmank87 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that a Lanier truck I spied?
> 
> 
> 
> It is! On time and exactly as ordered.
Click to expand...

Nice. Those guys are right down the street from me. Were you pleased with the product?


----------



## Cavan806

@Tmank87 I sure was. The "screened white washed" sand was perfect. I only found one small rock in the whole pile.


----------



## Tmank87

Awesome. Thanks. House looks great, btw!


----------



## dmouw

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> dmouw said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a similar issue with the river sand I used. Went cheap and now paying for it. Seemed all the sand worked in and left the pebbles on top so I'm just going to have to rake and scoop up.
> 
> 
> 
> How large were your pebbles?
Click to expand...

Prob pencil eraser size and smaller


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

dmouw said:


> Bermuda_Newbie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dmouw said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a similar issue with the river sand I used. Went cheap and now paying for it. Seemed all the sand worked in and left the pebbles on top so I'm just going to have to rake and scoop up.
> 
> 
> 
> How large were your pebbles?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prob pencil eraser size and smaller
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. Mine are a little smaller than that. I'm really hoping the grass grows over them and I didn't cause myself a crazy amount of work or worse end up causing damage to my reel.


----------



## joerob2211

Leveling update: This is the 5th day since I finished leveling. I have been working the sand with a baseball rake pretty much everyday.


----------



## Jewall84

Hi all. I've been a lurker here for a while. I have finally acquired a complete arsenal of lawn equipment required to level my Bermuda lawn and want to share the experience and get any feedback I can. I had sod put down 3 years ago and have paid a service to mow it too high the entire 3 years. It is also horribly uneven, causing scalping even at the tall HOC. This is how it's looked for years:





I recently bought a used Mclane 20" reel and today I scalped down to 5/8" on one side of the yard after running the Sun Joe scarifier at its deepest setting:





Being my first time using a reel mower and my first time ever scalping my lawn, I'm a little worried I went too low. Even after reading this entire thread multiple times over the last year, seeing comments like, "you cant kill bermuda", and "go for it", I'm still concerned I did damage.

I plan on doing the same thing to the other side of the yard tomorrow unless I hear different from you guys. I have 2 yards of masonry sand being delivered Friday and will spread that with the drag mat I ordered from Amazon.

I really enjoy the community here and am looking forward to any feedback/critisicm you all can give.


----------



## ctrav

Jewall84 said:


> Hi all. I've been a lurker here for a while. I have finally acquired a complete arsenal of lawn equipment required to level my Bermuda lawn and want to share the experience and get any feedback I can. I had sod put down 3 years ago and have paid a service to mow it too high the entire 3 years. It is also horribly uneven, causing scalping even at the tall HOC. This is how it's looked for years:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recently bought a new Mclane 20" reel and today I scalped down to 5/8" on one side of the yard after running the Sun Joe scarifier at its deepest setting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Being my first time using a reel mower and my first time ever scalping my lawn, I'm a little worried I went to low. Even after reading this entire thread multiple times over the last year, seeing comments like, "you cant kill bermuda", and "go for it", I'm still concerned I did damage.
> 
> I plan on doing the same thing to the other side of the yard tomorrow unless I hear different from you guys. I have 2 yards of masonry sand being delivered Friday and will spread that with the drag mat I ordered from Amazon.
> 
> I really enjoy the community here and am looking forward to any feedback/critisicm you all can give.


Bermuda and too low :lol: :lol: I went down to .50 and everyone says I will be fine. What do you intend to maintain at? After my scalp I was told to toss some fertilizer on it and water...


----------



## Jewall84

@ctrav 
Haha, exactly the reaction I expected about my concern. I am going to maintain at 1 inch for starters and will fertilize right after I spread the sand.


----------



## kur1j

This is my lawn last year.

https://imgur.com/a/I3uyNoU

That was cut at .25-.3"

I'm a little late this year on my scalp and aeration but it basically looks the same.

I'm actually doing my first lawn leveling starting today (sand gets delivered this afternoon). I have very little concern about killing my bermuda.

My concerns right now is that I make my lawn worse (e.g. i inadvertently slope something in some other direction incorrectly), just the sheer amount of work it's going to be to move 4.5 yards of sand around the yard and really the last thing is the length of time it will take to recover. I have a few places where I know sand is going to settle and will probably be pretty thick. I'm betting I'll be into july before it's gone.


----------



## bwright

I have a question about leveling with a rotary.

If I level the lawn with sand, wont the wheels of the rotary lawnmower just make ruts in the sand?


----------



## kur1j

Sand works into the soil after awhile.


----------



## jayhawk

Jewall84 said:


> Hi all. I've been a lurker here for a while. I have finally acquired a complete arsenal of lawn equipment required to level my Bermuda lawn and want to share the experience and get any feedback I can. I had sod put down 3 years ago and have paid a service to mow it too high the entire 3 years. It is also horribly uneven, causing scalping even at the tall HOC. This is how it's looked for years:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recently bought a used Mclane 20" reel and today I scalped down to 5/8" on one side of the yard after running the Sun Joe scarifier at its deepest setting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Being my first time using a reel mower and my first time ever scalping my lawn, I'm a little worried I went too low. Even after reading this entire thread multiple times over the last year, seeing comments like, "you cant kill bermuda", and "go for it", I'm still concerned I did damage.
> 
> I plan on doing the same thing to the other side of the yard tomorrow unless I hear different from you guys. I have 2 yards of masonry sand being delivered Friday and will spread that with the drag mat I ordered from Amazon.
> 
> I really enjoy the community here and am looking forward to any feedback/critisicm you all can give.


Yes, its stress /damage but it's for the good. In 30 days you'll be amazed.

Not too low. I took a string trimmer to my beauty strip down to mud (not a recommendation) in the spring ....can't stop Bermuda


----------



## flynavy812

Hey everyone, I've read through a good chunk of this thread and am envious of you all. My question is about material to use. I'm correcting a dip in the middle of my backyard and leveling some low spots. I'm in Oklahoma with the orange clay. I'm still unsure of the consensus on using sand with this soil. Is it appropriate to use sand to correct the bumps and slowly sooth that middle area?


----------



## joerob2211

Leveling update: 7 days and I went ahead and mowed. Also fertilized with a quick release fertilizer. Hard to stay patient.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

@joerob2211 did you adjust your HOC? What did you set it at? How rough was it on your mower?


----------



## txbuckeye

I am planning my first lawn levelling attempt, but am concerned about the sand clogging my drain pipes. I am sure sand will make its way into the drain covers. Is this something I should be worried about?


----------



## joerob2211

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> @joerob2211 did you adjust your HOC? What did you set it at? How rough was it on your mower?


I have not got an accurate measurement in my cal trimmer but it is probably around .75. It wasn't very hard on my mower, I believe a 7 blade is going to be more forgiving than a greens mowers or higher blade reel I will just back lap after it all fills in.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

txbuckeye said:


> I am planning my first lawn levelling attempt, but am concerned about the sand clogging my drain pipes. I am sure sand will make its way into the drain covers. Is this something I should be worried about?


I figured I'd just stick a hose down there to push out whatever sand got in there. I was more concerned with the sprinklers but those seem to have done fine despite being buried.


----------



## ZachUA

Ordered 7 yards of sand last week. Was delivered on Wednesday. Of course yesterday and today were the hottest days of the year so far. 

Here's my total cost breakdown on this venture. It always adds up to more than you think. Initially I was thinking 40 bucks a yard for sand...no problem.

Sand:
$42.00/yard 
$60.00 delivery fee
total: $354.00

Hired help
2 guys @ $15/hour 
total: $120.00

Babysitter to watch kids:
$60.00

Drag Mat:
105.70 but it's a few bucks cheaper now (https://www.amazon.com/Yard-Tuff-YTF-53HPDM-Drag-Mat/dp/B014SY8AMS/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=yard+tuff+drag+mat&qid=1558980436&s=gateway&sr=8-3)

I already had a lawn tractor, wheel barrow, shovels, push broom, basic yard tools, so I won't factor those in, but if you plan to buy one of those sweet dump carts, or any other relevant tools, add that to your cost.

Total out the door: 639.79

On to the pics: 
7 yards of sand in all its glory. (Our lot dips about 2 vertical feet from the driveway down to the trees behind the sand)


This morning before starting. A friend aerated lawn for me a couple weeks ago.


Getting started:

Finished dumping and knocking down the piles. About to start drag mat:


Finished (a little disappointed in the amount of tiny pebbles in the sand):


----------



## ctrav

ZachUA said:


> Ordered 7 yards of sand last week. Was delivered on Wednesday. Of course yesterday and today were the hottest days of the year so far.
> 
> Here's my total cost breakdown on this venture. It always adds up to more than you think. Initially I was thinking 40 bucks a yard for sand...no problem.
> 
> Sand:
> $42.00/yard
> $60.00 delivery fee
> total: $354.00
> 
> Hired help
> 2 guys @ $15/hour
> total: $120.00
> 
> Babysitter to watch kids:
> $60.00
> 
> Drag Mat:
> 105.70 but it's a few bucks cheaper now (https://www.amazon.com/Yard-Tuff-YTF-53HPDM-Drag-Mat/dp/B014SY8AMS/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=yard+tuff+drag+mat&qid=1558980436&s=gateway&sr=8-3)
> 
> I already had a lawn tractor, wheel barrow, shovels, push broom, basic yard tools, so I won't factor those in, but if you plan to buy one of those sweet dump carts, or any other relevant tools, add that to your cost.
> 
> Total out the door: 639.79
> 
> On to the pics:
> 7 yards of sand in all its glory. (Our lot dips about 2 vertical feet from the driveway down to the trees behind the sand)
> 
> 
> This morning before starting. A friend aerated lawn for me a couple weeks ago.
> 
> 
> Getting started:
> 
> Finished dumping and knocking down the piles. About to start drag mat:
> 
> 
> Finished (a little disappointed in the amount of tiny pebbles in the sand):


Thanks for the breakdown...


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

@ZachUA Pebble buddies! It's bad in my yard too and the sand looked tiny when we spread it. Let me know how your yard does as it grows back. I'm waiting to see if the grass will grow over the pebbles before I drag out my shop vac to vacuum the lawn and confirm the neighbors' suspicion that I am crazy.


----------



## ZachUA

Bermuda_Newbie said:


> @ZachUA Pebble buddies! It's bad in my yard too and the sand looked tiny when we spread it. Let me know how your yard does as it grows back. I'm waiting to see if the grass will grow over the pebbles before I drag out my shop vac to vacuum the lawn and confirm the neighbors' suspicion that I am crazy.


Will do! I've seen bermuda growing over concrete so I'm hopeful it will thicken up over top of the pebbles. There's a house in my hometown that the owner has not (in recent memory) edged his sidewalk and the bermuda has grown over top of it so far that the concrete that is now showing is only about half the width of the original.


----------



## T0R0

T0R0 said:


> Here's my one week update. Sand was spread on 5/10-5/11. I used about 2.50 - 2.75 cu yards of mason sand to cover 1500 sq ft (Front & Side lawn). I still have a little left of the original 3 yards to add some more sand where needed due to settling. I've already had to touch up a few of the deep spots due to settling.
> 
> Yard has been dragged with the 5'x3' amazon drag mat 3x now. I've also used the 36" R&R leveling rake to work the sand into some spots where the sand was not as deep and to get the smaller areas by the road smooth.
> 
> Today's pictures on top / original pictures on bottom.


A little more than 3 weeks later... the sidewalk strips are filling in fast with the other areas coming right along.


----------



## T0R0

Question for those that may have tried this tactic.... have you sprayed PGR on a leveled lawn that is not totally filled in? I have some areas that are growing like crazy and others that are still filling in. Any advice is appreciated!


----------



## Redtwin

T0R0 said:


> Question for those that may have tried this tactic.... have you sprayed PGR on a leveled lawn that is not totally filled in? I have some areas that are growing like crazy and others that are still filling in. Any advice is appreciated!


I have the same question...

I'm considering allowing mine to rebound to fill in quicker. I'm willing to mow every other day if that's what it takes. I thought I had read somewhere that with PGR it will fill in quicker due to it spending energy on lateral growth vs. vertical growth but I can't seem to find where I saw that.


----------



## agrassman

I've read a lot of the posts in the thread but have some questions for the experts. I have a 2 year old home with builder grade Bermuda in Atlanta. The builder graded the red clay and put the sod on top with nothing else added. I've worked hard to get it looking good but need to level it out. Previously I've read that sand isn't good for a home yard because it doesn't retain moisture and has no nutrients for the grass. I've found some sod blend dirt and top dressing dirt that I can get instead. It costs more but if that means less chemicals and work to keep the yard nicer I'm good to pay more. Thanks


----------



## Redtwin

agrassman said:


> I've read a lot of the posts in the thread but have some questions for the experts. I have a 2 year old home with builder grade Bermuda in Atlanta. The builder graded the red clay and put the sod on top with nothing else added. I've worked hard to get it looking good but need to level it out. Previously I've read that sand isn't good for a home yard because it doesn't retain moisture and has no nutrients for the grass. I've found some sod blend dirt and top dressing dirt that I can get instead. It costs more but if that means less chemicals and work to keep the yard nicer I'm good to pay more. Thanks


Sand works best for leveling Bermuda. Get your soil right, then use sand.


----------



## jayhawk

agrassman said:


> I've read a lot of the posts in the thread but have some questions for the experts. I have a 2 year old home with builder grade Bermuda in Atlanta. The builder graded the red clay and put the sod on top with nothing else added. I've worked hard to get it looking good but need to level it out. Previously I've read that sand isn't good for a home yard because it doesn't retain moisture and has no nutrients for the grass. I've found some sod blend dirt and top dressing dirt that I can get instead. It costs more but if that means less chemicals and work to keep the yard nicer I'm good to pay more. Thanks


I just had a bag of supersod's leveling mix dropped off. It's brown Mason sand as it's supposed to be 30% magic 70% sand. Price per pound is high but convenient, and has a 'kicker' if you will. It behaves and feels like pure sand....I've done them all (river sand, Mason).

No bark, chips, or pebbles - so thumbs up

now if they could deliver reputable sod


----------



## smurg

jayhawk said:


> agrassman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've read a lot of the posts in the thread but have some questions for the experts. I have a 2 year old home with builder grade Bermuda in Atlanta. The builder graded the red clay and put the sod on top with nothing else added. I've worked hard to get it looking good but need to level it out. Previously I've read that sand isn't good for a home yard because it doesn't retain moisture and has no nutrients for the grass. I've found some sod blend dirt and top dressing dirt that I can get instead. It costs more but if that means less chemicals and work to keep the yard nicer I'm good to pay more. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> I just had a bag of supersod's leveling mix dropped off. It's brown Mason sand as it's supposed to be 30% magic 70% sand. Price per pound is high but convenient, and has a 'kicker' if you will. It behaves and feels like pure sand....I've done them all (river sand, Mason).
> 
> No bark, chips, or pebbles - so thumbs up
> 
> now if they could deliver reputable sod
Click to expand...

They call the 30% organic humus and I'd be all in if they were somewhat competitive on price, but 6x the price of local options is a no-go.


----------



## agrassman

smurg said:


> jayhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> agrassman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've read a lot of the posts in the thread but have some questions for the experts. I have a 2 year old home with builder grade Bermuda in Atlanta. The builder graded the red clay and put the sod on top with nothing else added. I've worked hard to get it looking good but need to level it out. Previously I've read that sand isn't good for a home yard because it doesn't retain moisture and has no nutrients for the grass. I've found some sod blend dirt and top dressing dirt that I can get instead. It costs more but if that means less chemicals and work to keep the yard nicer I'm good to pay more. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> I just had a bag of supersod's leveling mix dropped off. It's brown Mason sand as it's supposed to be 30% magic 70% sand. Price per pound is high but convenient, and has a 'kicker' if you will. It behaves and feels like pure sand....I've done them all (river sand, Mason).
> 
> No bark, chips, or pebbles - so thumbs up
> 
> now if they could deliver reputable sod
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They call the 30% organic humus and I'd be all in if they were somewhat competitive on price, but 6x the price of local options is a no-go.
Click to expand...

I agree. I was looking at their mix the other night. I have ~15k sqft of Bermuda to level and would go broke using them.


----------



## jayhawk

Agrassman .....sorry, thought there was a question


----------



## JRS 9572

@jayhawk I've used it twice. Both times 6 to 7 super sacks of it. You can't beat the quality of it. It helps the soil too. I agree the cost is a lot more than the run of the mill stuff. It would be cost prohibitive for sure on a huge yard.

I went the cheap route one year and had a guy put down "dixie mix" which is supposed to be sand and mushroom compost. I spent a full day with a traditional push mower grinding up bark chips and everything else under the sun that was in it. I'll never go back to garbage like that.

Here's sort of the rough explanation of the why and whats of how they make it.


----------



## jayhawk

@JRS 9572 it's your fault  u brought it to my attention a year ago.

Most landscape supply here have a lot of bark, chips of ? Etc ...organic all right


----------



## JRS 9572

jayhawk said:


> @JRS 9572 it's your fault  u brought it to my attention a year ago.
> 
> Most landscape supply here have a lot of bark, chips of ? Etc ...organic all r@JRS 9572
> 
> Yeah it was literally smothering the yard. Had to run over it twice to turn it into chips small enough to fall through the canopy of the t@JRS 9572
> Sorry for suckering you into Level Cubed. If you ever come to the south side of Lake Murray. Drinks are on me. :thumbup:


----------



## joerob2211

11 days post level, quick cut this afternoon. Hopefully get some rain tomorrow.


----------



## flynavy812

Well, I have 4 yards of a local rich mix coming my way tomorrow. I'm focusing on leveling some real bad areas and correcting a slide grade issue. Hoping to top it off with sand eventually once the big stuff is taken care of. How much is too much as far as correcting a dip in the lawn? I know I could "correct" it by dumping soil like crazy but that would essentially drown what grass is there right? The grass in this area is already yellowing/browning from too much water sitting.


----------



## MrMeaner

I built a big shop/pool house in my back yard. I literally buried maybe 50sq ft of Celebration Bermuda as deep as 6" in to grade water away from the shop foundation, yes 6 inches!!

The contractor was suppose to get new sod once the grade was correct but he never showed back up, Several months and by the time he was finally ready to show back up the grass had crawled and grown back in that area and did not need sod.

Bermuda is bullet proof, it will come back no matter how deep you bury it. obviously the bigger, deeper the mix the longer it will take but...


----------



## flynavy812

MrMeaner said:


> I built a big shop/pool house in my back yard. I literally buried maybe 50sq ft of Celebration Bermuda as deep as 6" in to grade water away from the shop foundation, yes 6 inches!!
> 
> The contractor was suppose to get new sod once the grade was correct but he never showed back up, Several months and by the time he was finally ready to show back up the grass had crawled and grown back in that area and did not need sod.
> 
> Bermuda is bullet proof, it will come back no matter how deep you bury it. obviously the bigger, deeper the mix the longer it will take but...


Good to know! I'm thinking 3 inches at the most, we'll see. I'll post some pics as I go.


----------



## T0R0

@flynavy812 , If you look back at my pictures you can see how much sand I used to level my lawn. I have spots with about 3 inches of sand and the Bermuda is coming up through the sand pretty good and I'm only 3+ weeks post leveling. I put down a starter fertilizer and watered it in good 3-4 days before I spread out the sand and I think that definitely helped too.


----------



## T0R0

I used 3 yards on 1500 sq ft with very little leftover for touch ups later.


----------



## flynavy812

T0R0 said:


> @flynavy812 , If you look back at my pictures you can see how much sand I used to level my lawn. I have spots with about 3 inches of sand and the Bermuda is coming up through the sand pretty good and I'm only 3+ weeks post leveling. I put down a starter fertilizer and watered it in good 3-4 days before I spread out the sand and I think that definitely helped too.


So I had 4 yards of rich mix top soil delivered today. I don't want to waste it as I spent good money. It obviously doesn't have that super fine sand texture but I'm still able to "spread it" with small clumps here and there. So far I've done two wheelbarrows full and basically used back of my rake to spread it back and forth and let it do the filling. So some areas show grass while some are dark, which I'm assuming is the uneven spots filling in. Do you recommend I rent a roller and go over it?


----------



## dmouw

Got my second mow in since the leveling 12 days ago. I'm pretty please with how fast it's come through the sand and how dark green the Carbon X got it.


----------



## eternal3lade

Today's the day! I've got 3 yards of masonry sand set to be delivered this morning so I can level my 3,000 sq. ft. bermuda lawn. It's relatively new grass having only been sodded about 2 months ago, but man is it unlevel. So much so that it actually shook parts off and broke some plastic snaps off my mower which I JUST tightened. I also have some super low spots which will need a lot of TLC. I'll follow up with some before and after pictures when I get the dirty business done this weekend.

In addition to the Gorilla cart I picked up , I decided to DIY a lawn leveling tool using just local Home Depot components. Total cost was just under $49 dollars for the materials and some JB weld. I gave it a quick test and it turned out great! Beats spending $150 for an equivalent. Admittedly it did take 3 days to make since the JB weld had to dry between each step. Required tools were only a drill (with bits), a hacksaw and a small flat file.


----------



## joerob2211

14 days after leveling. Grass is growing like crazy and have already found spots that need more sand lol.


----------



## Passat774

When do you know when it's safe to go back to reel mowing after levelling? I really do not want to dull my recently sharpened reel and new bed knife.

Thanks


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

@Passat774 
I would say it really depends on how fast your grass is coming back in which depends on the time of year, type of grass, and the weather. Some on here mowed after a week. I mowed for the first time yesterday which was a day shy of two weeks for me and I still had quite a bit of sand left. Last year, I used my manual push mower (I lent it out this year) just over the high parts while I waited for it to fill in. That worked well for me.


----------



## joerob2211

Passat774 said:


> When do you know when it's safe to go back to reel mowing after levelling? I really do not want to dull my recently sharpened reel and new bed knife.
> 
> Thanks


I decided to mow after 7 days then 10 and 14. My grass is really growing and I have a 7 blade cal trimmer so I will backlap myself in the next couple of weeks. I really did not have much sand on the mower but made sure to hose off when I was done. Really trying to encourage lateral growth with tif 419.


----------



## Passat774

I used my Toro rotary last night, here it is this morning. I feel like if I can still see sand I should not use the reel ??


----------



## The_iHenry

Passat774 said:


> I used my Toro rotary last night, here it is this morning. I feel like if I can still see sand I should not use the reel ??


Sorry I can't answer your question but man that looks nice.


----------



## Alan

Passat774 said:
 

> I used my Toro rotary last night, here it is this morning. I feel like if I can still see sand I should not use the reel ??


I think that's a pretty safe way to go. Looks great.


----------



## socerplaye

Let the dirt place convince me that the red fill sand was better than the masonry sand and I would save some money as well. 15 tons later and I got completely hosed. Supposed to have some pebbles about the size of ice cream sprinkles. More like pea gravel, mulch, and golf ball sized rocks. Got it spread, but I won't be using that nice reel mower I picked up last weekend any time soon.

Called to complain and they are sending someone out Monday to look at it.


----------



## UFG8RMIKE

OMG, that is a nightmare right there.

.


----------



## Bermuda_Newbie

@socerplaye I'm so sorry. That's horrible.


----------



## stepper

First attempt at leveling today. I will say I don't think 3 yards was enough for my 3,000 sqft. Could've used another yard in the back. We'll see what happened over the next few weeks.


----------



## Passat774

The_iHenry said:


> Passat774 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used my Toro rotary last night, here it is this morning. I feel like if I can still see sand I should not use the reel ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I can't answer your question but man that looks nice.
Click to expand...

Thanks


----------



## ZachUA

Day 1 - Memorial Day:


Day 6 - Today:


----------



## Wfrobinette

Passat774 said:


> The_iHenry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Passat774 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used my Toro rotary last night, here it is this morning. I feel like if I can still see sand I should not use the reel ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I can't answer your question but man that looks nice.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks
Click to expand...

 Why wouldn't use the reel? the blades should be above the surface of the sand unless your cutting sub 0.50 inch. I used mine last week on a 1 week old leveling job with no issues


----------



## Wfrobinette

stepper said:


> First attempt at leveling today. I will say I don't think 3 yards was enough for my 3,000 sqft. Could've used another yard in the back. We'll see what happened over the next few weeks.


I did a first level over the last 2 weeks and used 10 yards on 5k sqft. I had a lot of uneven ground to level. From my experience I really think the 1 yard per 1k is too low on a first level attempt.


----------



## sanders4617

Do you guys suggest cutting LOW before sanding? I thought about letting mine grow a bit so that maybe it helps hold the sand in place (in the event of a thunderstorm). Just curious what the best way to do that is.


----------



## mhale09

Update - Used 7 tons of USGA Top Dressing on my 3,500 square foot back yard of TifTuf Bermuda. 
Front section was SUPER heavy, like 3 inches plus in most spots, so it's taking it time coming back, but slowly but surely it is! Amazing how hearty bermuda really is.

*Day of Sand*


*1 Week Post Sand*


*2 Weeks Post Sand*


*3 Weeks Post Sand*


----------



## ZachUA

Wfrobinette said:


> I did a first level over the last 2 weeks and used 10 yards on 5k sqft. I had a lot of uneven ground to level. From my experience I really think the 1 yard per 1k is too low on a first level attempt.


I agree. I bought 7 yards for my front yard which is about 5500 sq ft and could have easily used 10 yards. I honestly think I'll need to come back with another 7 yards of sand for a second go toward the end of this month. Hope my neighbors don't mind bc it sure isn't pretty when it's splotchy looking.


----------



## Passat774

Wfrobinette said:


> Passat774 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The_iHenry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I can't answer your question but man that looks nice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why wouldn't use the reel? the blades should be above the surface of the sand unless your cutting sub 0.50 inch. I used mine last week on a 1 week old leveling job with no issues
Click to expand...

Thanks, I was just explaining that to my wife, it has rained 1.5 inches on Saturday and I watered all last week.

I am mowing at .75 so on Wednesday the reel will be back in service


----------



## stepper

Wfrobinette said:


> stepper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First attempt at leveling today. I will say I don't think 3 yards was enough for my 3,000 sqft. Could've used another yard in the back. We'll see what happened over the next few weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> I did a first level over the last 2 weeks and used 10 yards on 5k sqft. I had a lot of uneven ground to level. From my experience I really think the 1 yard per 1k is too low on a first level attempt.
Click to expand...

You're right, I definitely should've doubled the amount. This was pre-level:






I hope it'll be at least a little better, but definitely won't be where I want it. I know it's a multi year project (I don't think my wife knows that though). I'll do it again next year but in April when it's not so hot.


----------



## joerob2211

May 18th









May 24th







June 3rd


----------



## mha2345

Anyone leveled without a drag mat? I have a landscape rake and a push broom, and my lawn is about 4500 sq ft. Will I make it or nah?


----------



## joerob2211

mha2345 said:


> Anyone leveled without a drag mat? I have a landscape rake and a push broom, and my lawn is about 4500 sq ft. Will I make it or nah?


I made a few passes with a drag mat by hand but mainly used a baseball rake. Not sure if that is similar to a landscape rake. The flat side of the rake has a lip on it and I pretty much used it everyday to work the sand.


----------



## mha2345

joerob2211 said:


> mha2345 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone leveled without a drag mat? I have a landscape rake and a push broom, and my lawn is about 4500 sq ft. Will I make it or nah?
> 
> 
> 
> I made a few passes with a drag mat by hand but mainly used a baseball rake. Not sure if that is similar to a landscape rake. The flat side of the rake has a lip on it and I pretty much used it everyday to work the sand.
Click to expand...

Awesome! Your lawn is looking great. Any noticeable difference in smoothness while mowing? I may shoot to just do the front yard first(around 1500sqft) this week and get 2 yards. I'm hoping it makes a big difference.


----------



## joerob2211

mha2345 said:


> joerob2211 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mha2345 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone leveled without a drag mat? I have a landscape rake and a push broom, and my lawn is about 4500 sq ft. Will I make it or nah?
> 
> 
> 
> I made a few passes with a drag mat by hand but mainly used a baseball rake. Not sure if that is similar to a landscape rake. The flat side of the rake has a lip on it and I pretty much used it everyday to work the sand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Awesome! Your lawn is looking great. Any noticeable difference in smoothness while mowing? I may shoot to just do the front yard first(around 1500sqft) this week and get 2 yards. I'm hoping it makes a big difference.
Click to expand...

There is for sure a noticeable difference especially in my back yard. Sod was laid last August and they did a terrible job. It will probably take me a couple years to get it really smooth.


----------



## Wfrobinette

mha2345 said:


> Anyone leveled without a drag mat? I have a landscape rake and a push broom, and my lawn is about 4500 sq ft. Will I make it or nah?


Spend the 109 + tax I got a 5wide x 3. I think the 3 x 3 or 3 x 5 would have been better. It wore me out pulling this thing around the yard. It's close to 45 pounds. The rake it's going to get it real smooth.

I'm still using a broom in spots that had too much sand.

It's cooled off here this week as well. Wish it was in the low 80's when I was spreading.


----------



## reidgarner

@JRS 9572 would you still recommend the rolling compost spreader? About how thick did it lay the material? I'm wanting to do a very light top dress this year (.1") with sand and Mirimichi CarbonizPN.


----------



## The_iHenry

eternal3lade said:


> Today's the day! I've got 3 yards of masonry sand set to be delivered this morning so I can level my 3,000 sq. ft. bermuda lawn. It's relatively new grass having only been sodded about 2 months ago, but man is it unlevel. So much so that it actually shook parts off and broke some plastic snaps off my mower which I JUST tightened. I also have some super low spots which will need a lot of TLC. I'll follow up with some before and after pictures when I get the dirty business done this weekend.
> 
> In addition to the Gorilla cart I picked up , I decided to DIY a lawn leveling tool using just local Home Depot components. Total cost was just under $49 dollars for the materials and some JB weld. I gave it a quick test and it turned out great! Beats spending $150 for an equivalent. Admittedly it did take 3 days to make since the JB weld had to dry between each step. Required tools were only a drill (with bits), a hacksaw and a small flat file.


You should make a diy thread


----------



## ctrav

The_iHenry said:


> eternal3lade said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today's the day! I've got 3 yards of masonry sand set to be delivered this morning so I can level my 3,000 sq. ft. bermuda lawn. It's relatively new grass having only been sodded about 2 months ago, but man is it unlevel. So much so that it actually shook parts off and broke some plastic snaps off my mower which I JUST tightened. I also have some super low spots which will need a lot of TLC. I'll follow up with some before and after pictures when I get the dirty business done this weekend.
> 
> In addition to the Gorilla cart I picked up , I decided to DIY a lawn leveling tool using just local Home Depot components. Total cost was just under $49 dollars for the materials and some JB weld. I gave it a quick test and it turned out great! Beats spending $150 for an equivalent. Admittedly it did take 3 days to make since the JB weld had to dry between each step. Required tools were only a drill (with bits), a hacksaw and a small flat file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should make a diy thread
Click to expand...

I second that! Lots of smart folks making all kinds of things...


----------



## AdamA

Hello all!

This is my first real attempt at getting my lawn in shape. Lawn is VERY uneven and I had no idea about leveling before I found t his forum. I've got a few bare patches and had initially put down Pennington mulch on it (now wish I'd spent that on sand, lol). I've only got a small yard (~5k total - ~2600 back, ~1800 side, ~600 front, and a smaller strip on the far side that doesn't get much sun) - what's the smallest, truly functional drag mat? Is the 3x3 doable at ~23lbs? Or do I honestly need to move up to the 4x5 or 4.5x5?

Thanks!


----------



## mha2345

AdamA said:


> Hello all!
> 
> This is my first real attempt at getting my lawn in shape. Lawn is VERY uneven and I had no idea about leveling before I found t his forum. I've got a few bare patches and had initially put down Pennington mulch on it (now wish I'd spent that on sand, lol). I've only got a small yard (~5k total - ~2600 back, ~1800 side, ~600 front, and a smaller strip on the far side that doesn't get much sun) - what's the smallest, truly functional drag mat? Is the 3x3 doable at ~23lbs? Or do I honestly need to move up to the 4x5 or 4.5x5?
> 
> Thanks!


I think I read a couple comments where people have used the 3x3 for a smaller yard and work great. I just ordered the 3x3 for my 4500 sq ft. Will be leveling in a couple weeks.


----------



## AdamA

Cool  Is the best kind of sand to get "Golf Course" sand? Or are there other types that are ok? (I'm trying to hold off on getting the sand from Lowe's or HD, and have a couple of quote requests out to nearby companies.

Thanks!


----------



## ZachUA

AdamA said:


> Cool  Is the best kind of sand to get "Golf Course" sand? Or are there other types that are ok? (I'm trying to hold off on getting the sand from Lowe's or HD, and have a couple of quote requests out to nearby companies.
> 
> Thanks!


I ordered sand from a local place and told them it was for leveling my yard. They recommended "agricultural sand" which ended up having a lot of small pebbles in it. Whatever you get, make sure you ask them if it has any pebbles or rocks in it. The rocks in mine ranged from half the size of a pinky fingernail (most of them) to the size 1.5" pea gravel.


----------



## AdamA

ZachUA said:


> AdamA said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool  Is the best kind of sand to get "Golf Course" sand? Or are there other types that are ok? (I'm trying to hold off on getting the sand from Lowe's or HD, and have a couple of quote requests out to nearby companies.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> I ordered sand from a local place and told them it was for leveling my yard. They recommended "agricultural sand" which ended up having a lot of small pebbles in it. Whatever you get, make sure you ask them if it has any pebbles or rocks in it. The rocks in mine ranged from half the size of a pinky fingernail (most of them) to the size 1.5" pea gravel.
Click to expand...

Yes, i saw that one local site has the same thing listed as "Pit Gravel/Topsoil Mulch", but they also have several types of "sand", including the "Golf Course".


----------



## mha2345

If possible, I would go and look at the sans in person first to make sure you are happy with it before buying.


----------



## joerob2211

3 weeks since leveling with sand


----------



## Brackin4au

Very nice @joerob2211


----------



## ctrav

joerob2211 said:


> 3 weeks since leveling with sand


Excellent...


----------



## XLT_66

So what's the latest consensus on HOC prior to leveling. I'm maintaining at about 0.7" right now. I could drop that down and somewhat scalp it at about 0.4" or so if I wanted to.

What does the group think about dropping the HOC down to aid in spreading the sand around easier? Last year, I was at about 1-1.2" grass height when I put sand down and it was terrible.


----------



## manthatsnice

XLT_66 said:


> So what's the latest consensus on HOC prior to leveling. I'm maintaining at about 0.7" right now. I could drop that down and somewhat scalp it at about 0.4" or so if I wanted to.
> 
> What does the group think about dropping the HOC down to aid in spreading the sand around easier? Last year, I was at about 1-1.2" grass height when I put sand down and it was terrible.


Not saying it's "the right way" but I've always scalped the shit out of mine before putting down sand. I've done it this way 3 or 4 times and it's always worked great.


----------



## cwrx82

XLT_66 said:


> So what's the latest consensus on HOC prior to leveling. I'm maintaining at about 0.7" right now. I could drop that down and somewhat scalp it at about 0.4" or so if I wanted to.
> 
> What does the group think about dropping the HOC down to aid in spreading the sand around easier? Last year, I was at about 1-1.2" grass height when I put sand down and it was terrible.


I scalped, reely low. I think it was at 0.30" but not exactly sure, as the beverages are thinking for me. Anyways, it's come back, far more quickly than I expected. It's not all grown back, but I'd say around 95% grown back


----------



## cwrx82

XLT_66 said:


> So what's the latest consensus on HOC prior to leveling. I'm maintaining at about 0.7" right now. I could drop that down and somewhat scalp it at about 0.4" or so if I wanted to.
> 
> What does the group think about dropping the HOC down to aid in spreading the sand around easier? Last year, I was at about 1-1.2" grass height when I put sand down and it was terrible.


The now:


----------



## ctrav

Recovering nicely from the sand @cwrx82!


----------



## AdamA

How *deep* can you put the sand? I have a section of lawn by the driveway that was never properly leveled when I moved in, and it's about 2.5"-3"+ between the top of the driveway and the current ground.

Thanks!


----------



## T0R0

AdamA said:


> How *deep* can you put the sand? I have a section of lawn by the driveway that was never properly leveled when I moved in, and it's about 2.5"-3"+ between the top of the driveway and the current ground.
> 
> Thanks!


That will fill in no problem as long as it gets plenty of sun. It may just take a little longer than other areas.


----------



## AdamA

T0R0 said:


> AdamA said:
> 
> 
> 
> How *deep* can you put the sand? I have a section of lawn by the driveway that was never properly leveled when I moved in, and it's about 2.5"-3"+ between the top of the driveway and the current ground.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> That will fill in no problem as long as it gets plenty of sun. It may just take a little longer than other areas.
Click to expand...

Is it better to put the ~3" of sand right over it, or better to do it gradually, like 1/2" at a time?

Thanks.


----------



## marc

Great info1 Maybe this is a stupid question but do you have to aerate before you add all of that sand on top of the sod to level? My grade is terrible so I envision many areas with sand completely covering my sod and of course I'm worried about doing more damage than good. Advice?


----------



## cwrx82

marc said:


> Great info1 Maybe this is a stupid question but do you have to aerate before you add all of that sand on top of the sod to level? My grade is terrible so I envision many areas with sand completely covering my sod and of course I'm worried about doing more damage than good. Advice?


You don't have to aerate prior to sand, but if you have the time and funds then you should do it. It's better for the overall health of the grass and helps with compaction. Home Depot rents them and some smaller rental places as well.


----------



## tcorbitt20

@marc my yard looked like this after I got done spreading sand, and it came back fine. 


This week it looked like this. I highly recommend it.


----------



## reidgarner

Has anyone ever tried spreading sand with one of the inexpensive drop spreaders? I'm not looking to go thick - probably 1/8" or so.


----------



## ctrav

reidgarner said:


> Has anyone ever tried spreading sand with one of the inexpensive drop spreaders? I'm not looking to go thick - probably 1/8" or so.


I have not but did consider it. The issue I see is if the sand gets any moisture and the limited amount of sand it will hold.


----------



## Ware

reidgarner said:


> Has anyone ever tried spreading sand with one of the inexpensive drop spreaders? I'm not looking to go thick - probably 1/8" or so.


I have considered trying one of the larger 120lb Lesco/Spyker drop spreaders. I think it would probably work if the sand was dry enough, but I think the flow rate and number of refills required might get annoying with the amount of sand I usually put down.


----------



## Spammage

reidgarner said:


> Has anyone ever tried spreading sand with one of the inexpensive drop spreaders? I'm not looking to go thick - probably 1/8" or so.


I use one of the original Scott's brand all metal drop spreaders for spot/small area leveling. It works great, but as stated, the sand has to be dry, and if you are doing the whole yard, you would probably give up on this quick.


----------



## SWB

52 tons of sand about 5 years ago. It needs to be done again.


----------



## Bmossin

SWB said:


> 52 tons of sand about 5 years ago. It needs to be done again.


#goals


----------



## UFG8RMIKE

That's one heck of a set up! I'm no expert but looking at the bottom pic with the drag it looks like your gonna have a hard time getting a level surface. You will get a smooth surface but not level if that's what your goal is.

You can see drag on the left side following the contour of the high spot. The board in the front looks like it would work great for spreading a leveling large piles but I believe the large, heavy, 6 ft wide home made angle iron leveling rake would probably better.


----------



## reidgarner

@ctrav @Ware @Spammage yep I'll be doing more of a topdress with sand and Mirimichi Carboniz than a leveling, so will be going really thin .I assumed sand would need to be dry so I was thinking of getting bagged mason sand that's been stored under cover. I only need about 25-30 bags for what I'm planning to do. I'll let y'all know how I fair. Thanks!


----------



## T0R0

AdamA said:


> T0R0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AdamA said:
> 
> 
> 
> How *deep* can you put the sand? I have a section of lawn by the driveway that was never properly leveled when I moved in, and it's about 2.5"-3"+ between the top of the driveway and the current ground.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> That will fill in no problem as long as it gets plenty of sun. It may just take a little longer than other areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it better to put the ~3" of sand right over it, or better to do it gradually, like 1/2" at a time?
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...

Just throw it all down in one shot. You may have to add a little more sand after it initially settles.


----------



## SWB

UFG8RMIKE said:


> That's one heck of a set up! I'm no expert but looking at the bottom pic with the drag it looks like your gonna have a hard time getting a level surface. You will get a smooth surface but not level if that's what your goal is.
> 
> You can see drag on the left side following the contour of the high spot. The board in the front looks like it would work great for spreading a leveling large piles but I believe the large, heavy, 6 ft wide home made angle iron leveling rake would probably better.


My goal was to get the lawn smooth and it worked for a couple of years. It needs another dressing. I would do it again the same way but using a different sand. I think a lot of guys are using mason sand on here and I think that's a better route. I might try the angle iron next time.


----------



## CenlaLowell

I need more sand alot more. Is it still a good time to get sand? Or is the window closed until next season?


----------



## ZachUA

SWB said:


> UFG8RMIKE said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's one heck of a set up! I'm no expert but looking at the bottom pic with the drag it looks like your gonna have a hard time getting a level surface. You will get a smooth surface but not level if that's what your goal is.
> 
> You can see drag on the left side following the contour of the high spot. The board in the front looks like it would work great for spreading a leveling large piles but I believe the large, heavy, 6 ft wide home made angle iron leveling rake would probably better.
> 
> 
> 
> My goal was to get the lawn smooth and it worked for a couple of years. It needs another dressing. I would do it again the same way but using a different sand. I think a lot of guys are using mason sand on here and I think that's a better route. I might try the angle iron next time.
Click to expand...

What kind of sand did you get last time?


----------



## SWB

ZachUA said:


> SWB said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UFG8RMIKE said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's one heck of a set up! I'm no expert but looking at the bottom pic with the drag it looks like your gonna have a hard time getting a level surface. You will get a smooth surface but not level if that's what your goal is.
> 
> You can see drag on the left side following the contour of the high spot. The board in the front looks like it would work great for spreading a leveling large piles but I believe the large, heavy, 6 ft wide home made angle iron leveling rake would probably better.
> 
> 
> 
> My goal was to get the lawn smooth and it worked for a couple of years. It needs another dressing. I would do it again the same way but using a different sand. I think a lot of guys are using mason sand on here and I think that's a better route. I might try the angle iron next time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What kind of sand did you get last time?
Click to expand...

I'd have to look it up but it was a very fine sand recommended by the guys at Site One. It's used to top dress putting greens. While it did help tremendously I need to dress it again with mason sand.


----------



## T0R0

CenlaLowell said:


> I need more sand alot more. Is it still a good time to get sand? Or is the window closed until next season?


Add sand when the grass is actively growing... so NO, the window is still open. I would get it down soon so the grass has plenty of time to fill in before the end of the growing season.


----------



## ThomasPI

Great info thanks for posting to all :thumbup:


----------



## XLT_66

I did a thing. Put down 7 yards on about 6800 square feet.

Then a nasty storm hit and washed some of it away. Need to see how bad once it dries up today.


----------



## DuncanMcDonuts

I need to add some elevation to my side yard. My builder put the swale on my yard instead of on the property line with my neighbor.

The side yard is about 1000 sq ft, but only about half of that needs to get raised. I was thinking about adding 8-10 yards of chocolate loam, which'll add about 5-6" at the lowest spots. Is that too much to smother the bermuda even if I hit it with fast acting urea before?

Or should I space it out by adding 2-3 yards every other week? I'd ideally do that, but the delivery charges add up.


----------



## UFG8RMIKE

Thinking I'm gonna wait to level till next Spring when the rain won't wash everything away. We had 0 rain in from May to 1st week of June, then 4.3 inches in the last 2 days with more on the way. It's been dumping every day.

.


----------



## sanders4617

My front yard has some slight slopes.. slopes towards the road in the front and then a little towards my driveway.

My wife's grandfather has angle iron and can weld and all that.. so I can build a drag that way. Probably just do a 5ft wide drag.

Or I could do a drag that looks like it's used for baseball fields.

I'm just not sure what the best tool would be for my yard? I'm afraid the slopes will cause the angle iron drag to not work the way I need?

I know I will not have a flat yard.. I'm not looking for flat. I just want my lawn to be smooth so that I can cut and have a nice even cut across the entire lawn.

Any advice? Maybe I should do the angle iron drag but go with maybe a 3ft width?


----------



## AdamA

Smooth, even top is all I'm looking for - to get rid of the unevenness and ruts - I know I'll never have a "flat" lawn, that's just the nature of the plot I'm on.


----------



## agrassman

I have ~12k sqft of Bermuda to level. I plan to scalp on Saturday afternoon/evening and aerate on Sunday. I have 15 yards of top dressing being delivered Monday morning. I have a riding mower with a wagon to move the sand around and a drag mat to spread it out. Am I being overly optimistic? I've never leveled before and getting nervous that I'm trying to do too much by myself. Am I crazy or does this sound reasonable for those that have done it before?


----------



## ctrav

agrassman said:


> I have ~12k sqft of Bermuda to level. I plan to scalp on Saturday afternoon/evening and aerate on Sunday. I have 15 yards of top dressing being delivered Monday morning. I have a riding mower with a wagon to move the sand around and a drag mat to spread it out. Am I being overly optimistic? I've never leveled before and getting nervous that I'm trying to do too much by myself. Am I crazy or does this sound reasonable for those that have done it before?


Sounds like a plan! I would rather bust my tail and get it done and you seem to have the equipment to make it happen. Do you have a rake and big broom? 15 yards of sand is a lot of sand for one person. Maybe hiring a couple of day workers or some neighborhood teenagers to help get the bulk of the sand out would be a good idea...


----------



## AdamA

Hello all!

I had a couple questions come up while calling for prices. Does it need to be triple washed, or is single washed ok? How much difference is there between "Golf Course" & "playground" sand? I've got a good price on the "playground" sand, but the "triple washed" is almost twice as much.

Thanks!


----------



## ctrav

AdamA said:


> Hello all!
> 
> I had a couple questions come up while calling for prices. Does it need to be triple washed, or is single washed ok? How much difference is there between "Golf Course" & "playground" sand? I've got a good price on the "playground" sand, but the "triple washed" is almost twice as much.
> 
> Thanks!


From what I understand you will not be happy with playground sand which most likely will have far too many rocks, stones, pebbles. Masonry sand is what I used and it had very little...


----------



## ZachUA

agrassman said:


> I have ~12k sqft of Bermuda to level. I plan to scalp on Saturday afternoon/evening and aerate on Sunday. I have 15 yards of top dressing being delivered Monday morning. I have a riding mower with a wagon to move the sand around and a drag mat to spread it out. Am I being overly optimistic? I've never leveled before and getting nervous that I'm trying to do too much by myself. Am I crazy or does this sound reasonable for those that have done it before?


I bought 7 yards of sand and hired two helpers. One guy was shoveling and hauling wheel barrow loads, dumping them, while the other was using a broom to knock them down and spread it out fairly evenly. I was also filling up 5 gallon buckets and dumping them. It took us 3 solid hours of work to move the 7 yards this way. After I paid them and they left I used my ride on mower and drag mat to to the final leveling, which took another hour. If I were you I would hire at least 3 guys and borrow another wheel barrow so you guys can double time it. Otherwise it's going to take you two full days of work by yourself.


----------



## agrassman

ZachUA said:


> agrassman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have ~12k sqft of Bermuda to level. I plan to scalp on Saturday afternoon/evening and aerate on Sunday. I have 15 yards of top dressing being delivered Monday morning. I have a riding mower with a wagon to move the sand around and a drag mat to spread it out. Am I being overly optimistic? I've never leveled before and getting nervous that I'm trying to do too much by myself. Am I crazy or does this sound reasonable for those that have done it before?
> 
> 
> 
> I bought 7 yards of sand and hired two helpers. One guy was shoveling and hauling wheel barrow loads, dumping them, while the other was using a broom to knock them down and spread it out fairly evenly. I was also filling up 5 gallon buckets and dumping them. It took us 3 solid hours of work to move the 7 yards this way. After I paid them and they left I used my ride on mower and drag mat to to the final leveling, which took another hour. If I were you I would hire at least 3 guys and borrow another wheel barrow so you guys can double time it. Otherwise it's going to take you two full days of work by yourself.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Great info and exactly what I needed. Trying to recruit some neighborhood high school and college kids that want to make a little money.


----------



## AdamA

Anyone think that 4yds/6 tons on a 5ksqft lawn is too much for one person?


----------



## nt5000

@AdamA how big a boy are ya? lol. It just depends on how much/hard you want to work, and how much of a hurry you are in. Sand is heavy AF.

I did 5 yds over 5k last year by myself and it wasn't too bad, but that's about as much as I'd expect to wheelbarrow and spread around in one day. It's ~30 heaping wheelbarrow fulls. Snow shoveling to load it up, then wheeling that heavy thing to your spot and dumping. I tried the dump cart and thought the wheelbarrow was easier.


----------



## Cory

AdamA said:


> Anyone think that 4yds/6 tons on a 5ksqft lawn is too much for one person?


I did 9 yards on my front last year and 20 yards on my whole lot this year by myself.


----------



## ctrav

Cory said:


> AdamA said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone think that 4yds/6 tons on a 5ksqft lawn is too much for one person?
> 
> 
> 
> I did 9 yards on my front last year and 20 yards on my whole lot this year by myself.
Click to expand...

Some folks are just natural studs! 🤣👍🏾


----------



## Cory

ctrav said:


> Cory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AdamA said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone think that 4yds/6 tons on a 5ksqft lawn is too much for one person?
> 
> 
> 
> I did 9 yards on my front last year and 20 yards on my whole lot this year by myself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some folks are just natural studs! 🤣👍🏾
Click to expand...

 😂 I'm no stranger to manual labor 👍🏼


----------



## Rockinar

AdamA said:


> Hello all!
> 
> I had a couple questions come up while calling for prices. Does it need to be triple washed, or is single washed ok? How much difference is there between "Golf Course" & "playground" sand? I've got a good price on the "playground" sand, but the "triple washed" is almost twice as much.
> 
> Thanks!


Before buying you need to go to the place and physically look at it and make sure its not full of rocks, Once they dump it in front of your house, its yours to deal with. You are looking for "Mason sand" this is the sand that masons use to make mortar for doing brick work on new construction homes. You dont want super fine beach sand and you dont want something full of pebbles and rocks. Find something in the middle. The name of it is not real important.


----------



## Rockinar

nt5000 said:


> @AdamA how big a boy are ya? lol. It just depends on how much/hard you want to work, and how much of a hurry you are in. Sand is heavy AF.
> 
> I did 5 yds over 5k last year by myself and it wasn't too bad, but that's about as much as I'd expect to wheelbarrow and spread around in one day. It's ~30 heaping wheelbarrow fulls. Snow shoveling to load it up, then wheeling that heavy thing to your spot and dumping. I tried the dump cart and thought the wheelbarrow was easier.


I did 6 yards with a shovel and wheelbarrow and it seemed like the pile of sand was never ending.


----------



## Rockinar

AdamA said:


> Anyone think that 4yds/6 tons on a 5ksqft lawn is too much for one person?


I did 6 yards on 4500sf just myself. It was tough, but doable. I did it over 2 days.


----------



## weevil07

Sounds like I'm being too optimistic planning on spreading 14 yards by myself. Got a tractor with front end ladder to haul sand around and A Connor Ward style drag to pull behind my 4 wheeler


----------



## DFW_Zoysia

Is it ok to use QUIKRETE 50-lb All-Purpose Sand from Lowes for leveling small areas?


----------



## T0R0

Here's my 1 month update. Sand was spread on 5/10-11. Mowed with a fresh backlap today!


----------



## ctrav

T0R0 said:


> Here's my 1 month update. Sand was spread on 5/10-11. Mowed with a fresh backlap today!


Looking good...


----------



## nt5000

@weevil07 nah man you got it. Especially with that equipment. Go for it!


----------



## AdamA

Still debating with the wife whether we do the leveling this year or start it early next year.

What is the *earliest* you want to do the sand? (Charlotte, NC area) - I'll also be doing a pre-emergent next year.


----------



## Spammage

DFW_Bermuda said:


> Is it ok to use QUIKRETE 50-lb All-Purpose Sand from Lowes for leveling small areas?


I think you will be unhappy with the pebbles in it (if mowing reel low). I will occasionally buy the Play Sand, but I even sift it to get the larger pebbles out of it.


----------



## erdons

DFW_Bermuda said:


> Is it ok to use QUIKRETE 50-lb All-Purpose Sand from Lowes for leveling small areas?


Get quikrete washed plaster sand it's much better for leveling.


----------



## smurg

AdamA said:


> Still debating with the wife whether we do the leveling this year or start it early next year.
> 
> What is the *earliest* you want to do the sand? (Charlotte, NC area) - I'll also be doing a pre-emergent next year.


You want the grass to be growing steadily. Now's a good time but I'd say up to a month ago to start.


----------



## Blatchy

How thick can you ideally lay this down?

I have a couple of areas that I know could take 8-10" easily.


----------



## Rockinar

Blatchy said:


> How thick can you ideally lay this down?
> 
> I have a couple of areas that I know could take 8-10" easily.


Generally you don't want to bury the grass or it will kill it. You want the tips of the grass to be showing so it can spread and fill in.. If you have a couple super deep 8" holes, then it is what it is. It will just take time to fill in I guess.


----------



## Blatchy

Rockinar said:


> Blatchy said:
> 
> 
> 
> How thick can you ideally lay this down?
> 
> I have a couple of areas that I know could take 8-10" easily.
> 
> 
> 
> Generally you don't want to bury the grass or it will kill it. You want the tips of the grass to be showing so it can spread and fill in.. If you have a couple super deep 8" holes, then it is what it is. It will just take time to fill in I guess.
Click to expand...

Yeah I had a couple of sink holes in my yard. I got them filled in, but eventually the soil/gravel I used to fill the hole has settled.

Thanks for the response.


----------



## erdons

Blatchy said:


> How thick can you ideally lay this down?
> 
> I have a couple of areas that I know could take 8-10" easily.


You can do it however it's going to take a while for it to come up from the bottom, it will fill in from the surrounding sides. I have some areas where I laid it on super thick 4-5 inches and it's finally starting to pop through and filling in around. You might be better off doing 2 inches at a time let it grow in and then add more sand.


----------



## Blatchy

erdons said:


> Blatchy said:
> 
> 
> 
> How thick can you ideally lay this down?
> 
> I have a couple of areas that I know could take 8-10" easily.
> 
> 
> 
> You can do it however it's going to take a while for it to come up from the bottom, it will fill in from the surrounding sides. I have some areas where I laid it on super thick 4-5 inches and it's finally starting to pop through and filling in around. You might be better off doing 2 inches at a time let it grow in and then add more sand.
Click to expand...

As much as I would love to do it now, ideally it is going to have to wait until later. There is no way in hell I am going to shovel 30 tons of sand in 110 degree heat. :lol:


----------



## erdons

Blatchy said:


> erdons said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blatchy said:
> 
> 
> 
> How thick can you ideally lay this down?
> 
> I have a couple of areas that I know could take 8-10" easily.
> 
> 
> 
> You can do it however it's going to take a while for it to come up from the bottom, it will fill in from the surrounding sides. I have some areas where I laid it on super thick 4-5 inches and it's finally starting to pop through and filling in around. You might be better off doing 2 inches at a time let it grow in and then add more sand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As much as I would love to do it now, ideally it is going to have to wait until later. There is no way in hell I am going to shovel 30 tons of sand in 110 degree heat. :lol:
Click to expand...

Exactly why I did some leveling back in March when it was 75... took longer to grow in but at least It wasn't so hot out.


----------



## UFG8RMIKE

I was all set to do mine as well. I can deal with the heat, its all the rain washing everything away and rutting I'm concerned about. We went from 0 to 100 with over 6.3 inches in the last 6 days. April/May looking like best time here.

.


----------



## manthatsnice

Blatchy said:


> How thick can you ideally lay this down?
> 
> I have a couple of areas that I know could take 8-10" easily.


Dig out the grass a few inches deep, put sand in the hole, then replace the grass. That way you just end up with seams of sand around the edges rather than 8" of sand the size of your hole. It'll heal up in no time.


----------



## Blatchy

manthatsnice said:


> Blatchy said:
> 
> 
> 
> How thick can you ideally lay this down?
> 
> I have a couple of areas that I know could take 8-10" easily.
> 
> 
> 
> Dig out the grass a few inches deep, put sand in the hole, then replace the grass. That way you just end up with seams of sand around the edges rather than 8" of sand the size of your hole. It'll heal up in no time.
Click to expand...

Excellent suggestion. Thanks.


----------



## T0R0

ctrav said:


> T0R0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my 1 month update. Sand was spread on 5/10-11. Mowed with a fresh backlap today!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking good...
Click to expand...

Thank you!


----------



## Jewall84

Jewall84 said:


> Hi all. I've been a lurker here for a while. I have finally acquired a complete arsenal of lawn equipment required to level my Bermuda lawn and want to share the experience and get any feedback I can. I had sod put down 3 years ago and have paid a service to mow it too high the entire 3 years. It is also horribly uneven, causing scalping even at the tall HOC. This is how it's looked for years:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recently bought a used Mclane 20" reel and today I scalped down to 5/8" on one side of the yard after running the Sun Joe scarifier at its deepest setting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Being my first time using a reel mower and my first time ever scalping my lawn, I'm a little worried I went too low. Even after reading this entire thread multiple times over the last year, seeing comments like, "you cant kill bermuda", and "go for it", I'm still concerned I did damage.
> 
> I plan on doing the same thing to the other side of the yard tomorrow unless I hear different from you guys. I have 2 yards of masonry sand being delivered Friday and will spread that with the drag mat I ordered from Amazon.
> 
> I really enjoy the community here and am looking forward to any feedback/critisicm you all can give.


3 weeks post level. I touched up some spots and have more to do. I think it's coming along okay. I put out .75lb N/m of 46-0-0 a week ago followed by 1.5 inches of rain in one hour the next day. A lot of it likely got washed away so I may put down another .25 or .5 N tomorrow. We have more rain the forecast the next 5 days so I'm not sure.


----------



## sanders4617

Conjured this up today. Got 10tons of sand being delivered Tuesday. Gonna be interesting to say the least. First time for more doing something of this scale.

I made this at 4ft wide and 2ft long.


----------



## Jordan90

sanders4617 said:


> Conjured this up today. Got 10tons of sand being delivered Tuesday. Gonna be interesting to say the least. First time for more doing something of this scale.
> 
> I made this at 4ft wide and 2ft long.


How much to build me one? I'll come get it from you


----------



## sanders4617

Jordan90 said:


> sanders4617 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conjured this up today. Got 10tons of sand being delivered Tuesday. Gonna be interesting to say the least. First time for more doing something of this scale.
> 
> I made this at 4ft wide and 2ft long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much to build me one? I'll come get it from you
Click to expand...

Man I'd love to do it, but I have to use someone's welding equipment and haul this metal in my Ford Focus haha. If I had a way of doing this at my house, I'd for sure build you one.


----------



## Jordan90

sanders4617 said:


> Jordan90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sanders4617 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conjured this up today. Got 10tons of sand being delivered Tuesday. Gonna be interesting to say the least. First time for more doing something of this scale.
> 
> I made this at 4ft wide and 2ft long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much to build me one? I'll come get it from you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Man I'd love to do it, but I have to use someone's welding equipment and haul this metal in my Ford Focus haha. If I had a way of doing this at my house, I'd for sure build you one.
Click to expand...

If you lived closer I'd pay to borrow it! Good luck with the leveling!


----------



## HottyToddyMed

Ok so I have a large garbage can full of layers of grass clippings, dirt, and pine straw. Would I be able to just let this sit for a season and use it for filling in some holes in my yard next season? I was just wondering how much it would break down. Just trying to figure out a way to put all of this wasted material to use


----------



## agrassman

Cut my lawn down to as low as the John Deere would go ~1 inch and aerated to prepare for the top dressing tomorrow.


----------



## JayGo

Greetings, fellow lawn care enthusiasts! New to the group, first post.

So I spent all of today reading all 41 pages of this thread as I plan to level my 4 year old builder grade lawn in the next 7 to 10 days. Thanks to everyone who offered insight.

I'm in the North Austin area where the clay soil may very well be the worst anywhere. I emphasize that point only because I see that the overwhelming suggestion is that sand be used to level a lawn (and I understand the reasons for that). But since my central TX clay soil is horrible, would it not make more sense to amend it with a quality soil for this first go around AND THEN use sand to do any future subsequent leveling?

Here's a bare spot in a shady corner:


Here's what the lawn looks like at 1 1/8" HOC:




One of the more popular landscape supply places in my immediate area sells the Mason sand most folks are suggesting as well as a variety of other nutrient-rich soils. One of their sand options is this:



Is this snake oil or is it legit stuff? I'd appreciate any thoughts on the "soil vs sand" considering my clay soil possibly benefitting from a quality soil.


----------



## drewwitt

@JayGo

@austinite might be your friend here. He's close by in Pflugerville and has leveled around 6 times. He uses a screened chocolate loam.

For having a builder grade, that lawn looks above average. Leveling and proper cultural practices will make it shine even more.

I'm in San Antonio and have "high expansive Houston black clay". I level with screened fine mason sand. I am on a consistent Penterra (high powered surfactant), Air8, RGS, and Humic12 regimen. I'm in year 2 of it and it's working wonders. The Penterra solves the issue of the clay being hydrophobic and moves the water down into the profile instead of running off the top. The Air8 creates micro aerations in the soil. RGS pushes the roots into those aerations. Humic12 adds hype to it all and helps put food on the LCN table. :lol:

The theory is, if you can develop healthy roots, those roots will break through the clay, and adding humic in will slowly convert the soil profile to something more healthy. Or so people say...


----------



## lvlikeyv

drewwitt said:


> I'm in San Antonio and have "high expansive Houston black clay". I level with screened fine mason sand. I am on a consistent Penterra (high powered surfactant), Air8, RGS, and Humic12 regimen. I'm in year 2 of it and it's working wonders. The Penterra solves the issue of the clay being hydrophobic and moves the water down into the profile instead of running off the top.


How often are you applying Penterra?
I bought some and applied about a month ago now. I don't believe I saw anything on the small product label/instruction for frequency.


----------



## Jordan90

lvlikeyv said:


> drewwitt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in San Antonio and have "high expansive Houston black clay". I level with screened fine mason sand. I am on a consistent Penterra (high powered surfactant), Air8, RGS, and Humic12 regimen. I'm in year 2 of it and it's working wonders. The Penterra solves the issue of the clay being hydrophobic and moves the water down into the profile instead of running off the top.
> 
> 
> 
> How often are you applying Penterra?
> I bought some and applied about a month ago now. I don't believe I saw anything on the small product label/instruction for frequency.
Click to expand...

Penterra rep told me I can apply as often as every 2 weeks but once a month is recommended.


----------



## JayGo

drewwitt said:


> @JayGo
> 
> @austinite might be your friend here. He's close by in Pflugerville and has leveled around 6 times. He uses a screened chocolate loam.
> 
> For having a builder grade, that lawn looks above average. Leveling and proper cultural practices will make it shine even more.
> 
> I'm in San Antonio and have "high expansive Houston black clay". I level with screened fine mason sand. I am on a consistent Penterra (high powered surfactant), Air8, RGS, and Humic12 regimen. I'm in year 2 of it and it's working wonders. The Penterra solves the issue of the clay being hydrophobic and moves the water down into the profile instead of running off the top. The Air8 creates micro aerations in the soil. RGS pushes the roots into those aerations. Humic12 adds hype to it all and helps put food on the LCN table. :lol:
> 
> The theory is, if you can develop healthy roots, those roots will break through the clay, and adding humic in will slowly convert the soil profile to something more healthy. Or so people say...


@drewwitt, I referenced @austinite posts that he contributed to this thread. His video was pretty cool. And if he's in P-ville, then we may as well be neighbors. As far as my builder lawn, the builder's landscape subcontractor said they used Tifway 419 sod, so at least I have that going for me.

I've also been using N-Ext products (MicroGreene, Humic12, RGS, & Air-8) since March. I'm not sure if any improvements in my lawn this year are from applying those products or if they're from me mowing lower than I'd previously done. I'd been mowing at 1 3/4'" before this year as opposed to this year's HOC of 1 1/8". I've been keeping it at my mower's lowest setting all season because of my plan to level as soon as the grass was in full-bloom. But that means I'm yellowing spots throughout the lawn because I'm scalping in the uneven parts.

Thanks for chiming in.


----------



## manthatsnice

Leveled the lawn this weekend. Perfect timing with the PGR...


5 yds of masonry sand delivered Friday morning... 


Scalped down to 1/8" and put out piles Saturday...


Friend came over with a tractor and turf float to spread Sunday... 


Finished up with a rake and broom Sunday afternoon...


----------



## drewwitt

> How often are you applying Penterra?
> I bought some and applied about a month ago now. I don't believe I saw anything on the small product label/instruction for frequency.


Using the ortho I did an initial app at 4oz / M and follow up with 1oz / M / month. I've noticed significant results from it. My bottle came with a full color sheet that had those rates on it. For $30, I think it's a great product. I only have 2500sf.


----------



## JayGo

Using one of these can definitely save everyone the countless shoveling and dumping wheelbarrow loads across your lawn. I can't seem to find a rental place near me.

https://youtu.be/9tfh6bqk970


----------



## Jordan90

This is what the companies in my area use but I can't bring myself to spend $1500 for it



JayGo said:


> Using one of these can definitely save everyone the countless shoveling and dumping wheelbarrow loads across your lawn. I can't seem to find a rental place near me.


----------



## JayGo

Jordan90 said:


> This is what the companies in my area use but I can't bring myself to spend $1500 for it
> 
> 
> 
> JayGo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Using one of these can definitely save everyone the countless shoveling and dumping wheelbarrow loads across your lawn. I can't seem to find a rental place near me.
Click to expand...

Maybe renting is an option in your area. I'm seeing rental prices from $70 to $100 a day at different places...just not in my area. I'd think most any homeowner could knock out quite a bit of sand in a day.


----------



## lvlikeyv

drewwitt said:


> Using the ortho I did an initial app at 4oz / M and follow up with 1oz / M / month. I've noticed significant results from it. My bottle came with a full color sheet that had those rates on it. For $30, I think it's a great product. I only have 2500sf.


Ortho? I might be having a brain fart but I dont think I'm familiar with this product.


----------



## FlaDave

lvlikeyv said:


> drewwitt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Using the ortho I did an initial app at 4oz / M and follow up with 1oz / M / month. I've noticed significant results from it. My bottle came with a full color sheet that had those rates on it. For $30, I think it's a great product. I only have 2500sf.
> 
> 
> 
> Ortho? I might be having a brain fart but I dont think I'm familiar with this product.
Click to expand...

I think he means he applied penterra with a ortho hose end sprayer.


----------



## drewwitt

lvlikeyv said:


> drewwitt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Using the ortho I did an initial app at 4oz / M and follow up with 1oz / M / month. I've noticed significant results from it. My bottle came with a full color sheet that had those rates on it. For $30, I think it's a great product. I only have 2500sf.
> 
> 
> 
> Ortho? I might be having a brain fart but I dont think I'm familiar with this product.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry! I meant to say Ortho Hose End Dial and Spray. It's the red cheap sprayer at HD for $10ish. I like it for Penterra because you can dial in a lot of water to carry it. The big risk with Penterra is if you dont get enough water to flush it into the soil it can burn the grass.


----------



## cousineau18

Ware said:


> Here is a quick time progression of my back yard leveling... :bandit:
> 
> April 8, 2016


Do you mind if I ask you how much that cost for you? I am in Richmond VA and would love to get about half of what you got and get some top soil and do the mixing by hand, as I have an all clay surface which I have heard adding sand to clay will not be a smart choice when it rains and hardens up.


----------



## agrassman

JayGo said:


> One of the more popular landscape supply places in my immediate area sells the Mason sand most folks are suggesting as well as a variety of other nutrient-rich soils. One of their sand options is this:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this snake oil or is it legit stuff? I'd appreciate any thoughts on the "soil vs sand" considering my clay soil possibly benefitting from a quality soil.


I just leveled with 18 tons of USGA top dressing. May have not been worth it but it is the first time leveling this lawn after new construction. I'll let you know how it goes. I paid $765 delivered for the 18 tons in the Atlanta suburbs. Next time I will use mason sand but thought this first time I would go this route.


----------



## JayGo

agrassman said:


> JayGo said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the more popular landscape supply places in my immediate area sells the Mason sand most folks are suggesting as well as a variety of other nutrient-rich soils. One of their sand options is this:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this snake oil or is it legit stuff? I'd appreciate any thoughts on the "soil vs sand" considering my clay soil possibly benefitting from a quality soil.
> 
> 
> 
> I just leveled with 18 tons of USGA top dressing. May have not been worth it but it is the first time leveling this lawn after new construction. I'll let you know how it goes. I paid $765 delivered for the 18 tons in the Atlanta suburbs. Next time I will use mason sand but thought this first time I would go this route.
Click to expand...

Please, keep me posted, @agrassman .I'm not sure what it costs here in Central TX, but I feel like I shouldn't pass up the opportunity to try to improve my soil quality before i go with straight sand...at least for this first leveling.

Good luck!


----------



## drewwitt

I put down a very light layer of screened mason sand on my Zeon zoysia. It's somewhere between 1/3 - 1/2 yard of sand. I'm afraid to bury it like my Bermuda brothers. My zoysia is slow and at times temperamental and only a year old. So this was my baby test. First picture is ten days ago. Second picture is today. I'm pleased with the recovery. I'm thinking about doing several of these light coats instead of one major job.

Tuesday June 11, 2019


Thursday June 20, 2019


My hard worker:


----------



## LittleTino

Nice job @drewwitt!

I just hit my zeon zoysia yesterday. Had a contact supply me with 6tons (5 yards-ish) of screened "dried" mason sand. Took me all day to put 4 tons on my front 3.5k. It wasn't nearly as much fun as you think it would be. I really worked it in with my 36" leveling rake and was completely worn when I finished the front.

The dried sand was great because it just slid in-between the zoysia's thick canopy. I irrigated for 40 min to settle it a bit. Then we got a severe storm a few hours later. None of the sand shifted or spilled away, even on some healthy slopes.

We'll see how quickly it can recover. Hitting the back yard today, but only have enough sand left to hit the visible low spots. Not


----------



## Ware

LittleTino said:


>


Looks amazing! I'm excited for you! :thumbsup:


----------



## drewwitt

@LittleTino no doubt you will be BigTino after all is said and done. It's a workout for sure. Looks like you nailed the depth of sand and didn't smother. Interested to see how long yours takes to fill in.


----------



## ctrav

LittleTino said:


> Nice job @drewwitt!
> 
> I just hit my zeon zoysia yesterday. Had a contact supply me with 6tons (5 yards-ish) of screened "dried" mason sand. Took me all day to put 4 tons on my front 3.5k. It wasn't nearly as much fun as you think it would be. I really worked it in with my 36" leveling rake and was completely worn when I finished the front.
> 
> The dried sand was great because it just slid in-between the zoysia's thick canopy. I irrigated for 40 min to settle it a bit. Then we got a severe storm a few hours later. None of the sand shifted or spilled away, even on some healthy slopes.
> 
> We'll see how quickly it can recover. Hitting the back yard today, but only have enough sand left to hit the visible low spots. Not


Great job on the lawn and that is some of the best looking sand I have seen folks put down!!


----------



## UFG8RMIKE

LittleTino said:


> Nice job @drewwitt!
> 
> I just hit my zeon zoysia yesterday. Had a contact supply me with 6tons (5 yards-ish) of screened "dried" mason sand. Took me all day to put 4 tons on my front 3.5k. It wasn't nearly as much fun as you think it would be. I really worked it in with my 36" leveling rake and was completely worn when I finished the front.
> 
> The dried sand was great because it just slid in-between the zoysia's thick canopy. I irrigated for 40 min to settle it a bit. Then we got a severe storm a few hours later. None of the sand shifted or spilled away, even on some healthy slopes.
> 
> We'll see how quickly it can recover. Hitting the back yard today, but only have enough sand left to hit the visible low spots. Not


What height did you cut/scalp prior to sanding?


----------



## LittleTino

I set the bench HOC at 7/16" with the groomer set at an aggressive 3/16" and then cut two passes the night before. I had been cutting at 5/8" twice per week to get it close.


----------



## Rockinar

For those afraid to scalp their lawn. Here's where I cut my rotary maintained lawn with my reel mower doing demos for buyers. The once scalped are is clearly greener and thicker now than the surrounding area.



















Scalping = GOOD!


----------



## mha2345

Took the plunge, decided to just do the front first which is around 1500 sqft.. had 2 yards of sand delivered. Frst I scalped on lowest setting with rotary:



Then sand:











Wife even helped a bit 😂. What a job though, still not quite done, need to keep working the drag although the leveling rake works a bit better just can't cover as much ground as fast. Don't know how you guys with big yards do it!!


----------



## Sublime

Is there any benefit to dethatching before leveling?


----------



## socerplaye

Three week update on the zoysia part of my lawn.


----------



## Bmossin

So I'm a week and a half post leveling and still have some areas that were really low and I put quite a bit of sand.

I keep hitting it with the rake and baseball drag.

We keep getting rain Eich is good, but also causes me to go out there and hit the sand with a garden weasel to keep it from crusting over.

I've seen Bermuda do some
Awesome things...but should I be worried about it being to smothered?


----------



## ctrav

Bmossin said:


> So I'm a week and a half post leveling and still have some areas that were really low and I put quite a bit of sand.
> 
> I keep hitting it with the rake and baseball drag.
> 
> We keep getting rain Eich is good, but also causes me to go out there and hit the sand with a garden weasel to keep it from crusting over.
> 
> I've seen Bermuda do some
> Awesome things...but should I be worried about it being to smothered?


Right about now your Bermuda is laughing at you saying "we have him so worried" and saying "lets wait another week to really make him sweat" :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously it will all be fine and Im no expert on this but I would just keep working it with the drag mat and a broom!


----------



## BillFrenkel

Hi All, new member and first post. Like most here I desire the look of Augusta National in my front yard. Just moved into current home in Feb. have top dressed previously in other homes and used River Sand. In the Atlanta area. Have been mowing with a 20" TruCut since moving in and most think the lawn looks fantastic, but I am not satisfied. Going to top dress this weekend and at a bit of dilemma, as to which sand to use. Many say use masonry sand, some say river sand etc. Contacting River Sand Inc. here in Atlanta they have a USGA certified top dressing sand supposedly much finer grains, promoting tighter growth etc. The problem is its $435 for 4 yards delivered where Masonry or River sand is half that cost. So, question is it worth it? I have included some photos currently and if there are any other comments on how to prevent the scalping in the swale (which topdressing should help some of it) I am open to hear some suggestions. Thanks in advance and look forward to participating in the group.


----------



## Ware

BillFrenkel said:


> Hi All, new member and first post...
> 
> ...they have a USGA certified top dressing sand supposedly much finer grains, promoting tighter growth etc. The problem is its $435 for 4 yards delivered where Masonry or River sand is half that cost. So, question is it worth it?


Welcome to TLF!

I don't doubt that the USGA stuff is superior, but I have had such good results with masonry sand that I would not be willing to pay that much for sand. Maybe if I was maintaining a putting green, but my lawn is more like fairway height.


----------



## mhale09

I used the USGA topdressing from RSI a month ago or so (I'm in Cumming). I don't have a closeup pic of it, but it was by far the best sand I've seen. Yes it was expensive, but not a single rock or even small pebble in it. I mean it was perfect. I had sanded before years ago and felt like I picked out small rocks for weeks, so for the extra couple hundred bucks it was worth the peace of mind to me.

*Day 1*


*Day 20*


----------



## BillFrenkel

WOW! Looks fantastic. Now you have given me something to certainly consider! I wonder what is the take on ordering extra ( I have a place I can put the pile and planning to rent a Dingo) since they are already charging me the delivery and having more at my disposal to continue to fine tune? Any thoughts on how to get rid of that edge scalping in the swale? I may move up to the 27" TruCut when I can find a deal.


----------



## mhale09

So when I called they told me they sell it by the ton and their normal dump truck can only deliver 7 tons at one time. If you need/want more they have to do a bigger truck that would cost more on delivery. But I didn't get a price because I had what I needed. But it's certainly an option.

As far as the swale goes, there are certainly better experts than me on here, but repeated top dressing is a tried and true method to fixing any inconsistencies in your ground. 
The other option is to change up the direction you cut if you haven't already. I have certain sections that scalp depending on what direction I mow if that makes sense.

I love my C-27, mine is probably 15 years old and still runs like a champ. I want to upgrade to a JD 260B at some point, but not in a huge hurry until I can find a decent deal on one.


----------



## T0R0

BillFrenkel said:


> Any thoughts on how to get rid of that edge scalping in the swale? I may move up to the 27" TruCut when I can find a deal.


Does your trucut have a roller on the front or the wheels? A roller would help your mower not to dip down into any depressions and scalp the lawn. Also, on my GM1000 I can adjust the roller to sit closer to the reel/bed knife and that helps the mower roll smoother over any undulations in the lawn. Check to see if there is an option of doing that to your trucut... or you could just sell your trucut and get a greensmower. It's a night and day difference in quality from what I hear.


----------



## mha2345

Had a pretty bad storm today which has me worried about the leveling. Got home from work tonight and can feel the sand on the driveway and sidewalks. Don't have much sand left over and I'm only 4 days post level. Should I just go back out and use the push broom to try and even out the sand again? Anyone have areas get washed out before enough growth happened?


----------



## drewwitt

mha2345 said:


> Had a pretty bad storm today which has me worried about the leveling. Got home from work tonight and can feel the sand on the driveway and sidewalks. Don't have much sand left over and I'm only 4 days post level. Should I just go back out and use the push broom to try and even out the sand again? Anyone have areas get washed out before enough growth happened?


Pictures? I think a little wash out is normal.


----------



## JayGo

BillFrenkel said:


> Contacting River Sand Inc. here in Atlanta they have a USGA certified top dressing sand supposedly much finer grains, promoting tighter growth etc. The problem is its $435 for 4 yards delivered where Masonry or River sand is half that cost. So, question is it worth it?


I am a day or two away from finally pulling the trigger on ordering sand. A couple of weeks ago, I posted about the USGA sand, because it's available to me here in the Austin, TX area. I was freaking a bit at $77/cub yd, but I may have been wrong. I've never leveled before, and I see so many folks having great results with standard masonry sand that I am leaning to just going with that at $46/cub yd. That's quite a bit of difference.

Is the consensus among the group about the Tuff Yard drag mats still positive? I will be pulling by hand across just over 5K sq foot Bermuda turf. Or are there any other leveling tools that anyone would like to recommend?


----------



## DuncanMcDonuts

JayGo said:


> I am a day or two away from finally pulling the trigger on ordering sand. A couple of weeks ago, I posted about the USGA sand, because it's available to me here in the Austin, TX area. I was freaking a bit at $77/cub yd, but I may have been wrong. I've never leveled before, and I see so many folks having great results with standard masonry sand that I am leaning to just going with that at $46/cub yd. That's quite a bit of difference.
> 
> Is the consensus among the group about the Tuff Yard drag mats still positive? I will be pulling by hand across just over 5K sq foot Bermuda turf. Or are there any other leveling tools that anyone would like to recommend?


Masonry sand seems to be the standard as it's affordable and works well. Given that you're in Round Rock, Whittlesey is a decent choice, but my personal experience with them was less than satisfying. They messed up a delivery order of mine and did nothing to fix their mistake. They lost me as a customer.

I have an delivery expected from River Rock Supply in the Wells Branch area. Their prices were better than Whittlesey and delivery was cheaper for me, but that's also dependent on your zip. You could also check out Austin Landscape Supplies in Georgetown. Their prices look similar to Whittlesey, but they seem to have a special for 15% off on July 5.

I have a question for others. Do you fertilize before or after spreading your material? I am adding lots of screened chocolate loam to an area to change the grade. I have some fast acting ammonium sulfate 21-0-0 to add, but I was told it takes a week to see any growth.


----------



## mha2345

DuncanMcDonuts said:


> JayGo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a day or two away from finally pulling the trigger on ordering sand. A couple of weeks ago, I posted about the USGA sand, because it's available to me here in the Austin, TX area. I was freaking a bit at $77/cub yd, but I may have been wrong. I've never leveled before, and I see so many folks having great results with standard masonry sand that I am leaning to just going with that at $46/cub yd. That's quite a bit of difference.
> 
> Is the consensus among the group about the Tuff Yard drag mats still positive? I will be pulling by hand across just over 5K sq foot Bermuda turf. Or are there any other leveling tools that anyone would like to recommend?
> 
> 
> 
> Masonry sand seems to be the standard as it's affordable and works well. Given that you're in Round Rock, Whittlesey is a decent choice, but my personal experience with them was less than satisfying. They messed up a delivery order of mine and did nothing to fix their mistake. They lost me as a customer.
> 
> I have an delivery expected from River Rock Supply in the Wells Branch area. Their prices were better than Whittlesey and delivery was cheaper for me, but that's also dependent on your zip. You could also check out Austin Landscape Supplies in Georgetown. Their prices look similar to Whittlesey, but they seem to have a special for 15% off on July 5.
> 
> I have a question for others. Do you fertilize before or after spreading your material? I am adding lots of screened chocolate loam to an area to change the grade. I have some fast acting ammonium sulfate 21-0-0 to add, but I was told it takes a week to see any growth.
Click to expand...

I fertilized after spreading, as to not collect all the fert in one area when spreading the sand. Here's 4 days post level for me. Used 46-0-0 and a little carbon x 2 days ago which is helping it along. I'll have some spot leveling to do in certain areas that got washed out but it's not as bad as I initially thought.


----------



## JayGo

DuncanMcDonuts said:


> JayGo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a day or two away from finally pulling the trigger on ordering sand. A couple of weeks ago, I posted about the USGA sand, because it's available to me here in the Austin, TX area. I was freaking a bit at $77/cub yd, but I may have been wrong. I've never leveled before, and I see so many folks having great results with standard masonry sand that I am leaning to just going with that at $46/cub yd. That's quite a bit of difference.
> 
> Is the consensus among the group about the Tuff Yard drag mats still positive? I will be pulling by hand across just over 5K sq foot Bermuda turf. Or are there any other leveling tools that anyone would like to recommend?
> 
> 
> 
> Masonry sand seems to be the standard as it's affordable and works well. Given that you're in Round Rock, Whittlesey is a decent choice, but my personal experience with them was less than satisfying. They messed up a delivery order of mine and did nothing to fix their mistake. They lost me as a customer.
> 
> I have an delivery expected from River Rock Supply in the Wells Branch area. Their prices were better than Whittlesey and delivery was cheaper for me, but that's also dependent on your zip. You could also check out Austin Landscape Supplies in Georgetown. Their prices look similar to Whittlesey, but they seem to have a special for 15% off on July 5.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for the tip on the coupon from Austin Landscape Supplies. Whittlesey is the place I've bought rock and mulch from in the past, but I was able to haul it off in my truck. I'm looking at 6 cu. yards of sand, so I need it delivered. You know, I've read a few horror stories regarding the quality of the "screened" sand they thought they were getting. As I'm doing this for the first time, I just don't need the added stress of having to deal with small rocks in the sand. I'm not using a reel mower (yet), but I just don't want to have that problem in the future if I do decide to go that route.
Thanks, again.


----------



## DuncanMcDonuts

JayGo said:


> Thanks so much for the tip on the coupon from Austin Landscape Supplies. Whittlesey is the place I've bought rock and mulch from in the past, but I was able to haul it off in my truck. I'm looking at 6 cu. yards of sand, so I need it delivered. You know, I've read a few horror stories regarding the quality of the "screened" sand they thought they were getting. As I'm doing this for the first time, I just don't need the added stress of having to deal with small rocks in the sand. I'm not using a reel mower (yet), but I just don't want to have that problem in the future if I do decide to go that route.
> Thanks, again.


Whittlesey delivered a mix of screened chocolate loam and masonry sand to me and I had no issues with the product, only their customer service.


----------



## andynese

Hey fellas, I'm relatively new to this forum. I'm planning on leveling my yard out, but my biggest concern is that my house is at an incline and using sand to level will just run off when I have a storm come through. Do y'all have any recommendations or can point me to someone that has leveled there incline lawn? Thank you in advance!


----------



## Christech11

andynese said:


> Hey fellas, I'm relatively new to this forum. I'm planning on leveling my yard out, but my biggest concern is that my house is at an incline and using sand to level will just run off when I have a storm come through. Do y'all have any recommendations or can point me to some that has leveled there incline lawn? Thank you in advance!


I have a pretty decent incline on the front and one of the sides of my home (15* or so). In my experience, what helped me was really working the sand in after it was laid down and spread out. I did this with a 4-wheeler and 8x6 ft drag. I put out less than the 1 cu yd per K of sand and I didn't experience any sand washing out in the low area between my house and my neighbors. I also used the finest sand I could find in my area which is called sugar sand.


----------



## AdamA

I also have a HEAVY slope on one side - will post a pic of it shortly (Yeah, I'm thinking of having a retaining wall put in and it all leveled out with the back yard - maybe a year or two down the line)


----------



## AdamA

Ok, here's a pic of my side yard.


----------



## AdamA

Here's a closer pic of where it's really steep.


----------



## JayGo

Seems I've seen more people using the Tuff Yard 5x3 drag mat when leveling by hand. Did anyone here try the 5x4.5 mat? Is it too heavy after a while?


----------



## smurg

JayGo said:


> Seems I've seen more people using the Tuff Yard 5x3 drag mat when leveling by hand. Did anyone here try the 5x4.5 mat? Is it too heavy after a while?


The front of my 5x3 doesn't lift up bad and I feel like the length is fine. Already tough to pick up and move around if needed due to weight and size, so even longer would be hard.


----------



## JayGo

smurg said:


> JayGo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems I've seen more people using the Tuff Yard 5x3 drag mat when leveling by hand. Did anyone here try the 5x4.5 mat? Is it too heavy after a while?
> 
> 
> 
> The front of my 5x3 doesn't lift up bad and I feel like the length is fine. Already tough to pick up and move around if needed due to weight and size, so even longer would be hard.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for chiming in. I appreciate that. Sounds like I'll be fine with the 5x3.


----------



## bmadams

Just made my first attempt at leveling the front and back. Hopefully it helps, it was really harder than you think it will be. The first two photos are after scalp and aerating and sanding, the last picture is before I scalped cut at about 1.5" with rotary. Looking forward to using my JD greensmower on the front in a week or so. This is only the front yard I will try to get pics of backyard tomorrow.

June 28


July 2


July 2


July 5th


July 10th


July 18 update



July 24th Almost 1 month after sand



August 1st. First mow with JD220A after sanding



August 12th after double
Mow at 7/16" before trimming, edging, and blowing off





After trimming, edging, and blowing


----------



## smurg

I bought a 70/30 (sand/topsoil) mix from SiteOne hardscapes. Figured it would hold better on my 35deg slope than pure sand. That was a mistake whether or not the previous was true. I figured SiteOne would be more quality but in the end I'll be spending the next few months combing and yard and mowing higher.

The initial pile look cleaned except for a twig here or there:


A majority falls into the canopy after dragging but what remains on top is that small amount you saw earlier. When it's laying on top, you notice a whole lot more (still a 'little' over 5 yards adds up to a lot):


A lot of this is still soil but with moisture, it will clump up. Cart full of crap I could gather:


I recommend sticking with 100% sand.


----------



## drewwitt

smurg said:


> Cart full of crap I could gather:
> 
> 
> I recommend sticking with 100% sand.


I just got a panic attack looking at the contents of that cart. I'm going to go to the garage to console my reel mower.


----------



## smurg

drewwitt said:


> smurg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cart full of crap I could gather:
> 
> 
> I recommend sticking with 100% sand.
> 
> 
> 
> I just got a panic attack looking at the contents of that cart. I'm going to go to the garage to console my reel mower.
Click to expand...

A light push broom over top helps knock the big stuff around. Will still take multiple days and I've learned my lesson lol.

Had a 1/4" screen but bought a 1/8" and will put it back through to reclaim any good stuff I pick back up when trying to corral the sticks/stones. A bunch of the balls in the cart are still dirt balls, so I may try to smash them with my tamper before sifting. Still, it's a bunch of work I could have just avoided, sigh.


----------



## JayGo

Alright, gentlemen, sand delivery was finally scheduled for tomorrow.
Have all my tools ready.
I Only have one question for you experienced levelers: do i need to core aerate BEFORE I start spreading the sand? I core aerated last fall, and I've been using N-Ext Air-8 since early March.

I'd appreciate your thoughts.


----------



## ctrav

JayGo said:


> Alright, gentlemen, sand delivery was finally scheduled for tomorrow.
> Have all my tools ready.
> I Only have one question for you experienced levelers: do i need to core aerate BEFORE I start spreading the sand? I core aerated last fall, and I've been using N-Ext Air-8 since early March.
> 
> I'd appreciate your thoughts.


I have only sanded once and it was a small 3k section but I did aerate before sanding. I would do it the same way again!


----------



## bmadams

Update on my top dressing with sand. Looks to be coming in nicely

July 5


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Here's my post in my journal

6/28/19


7/4/19


----------



## JayGo

After leveling with sand, what fertilizer do you guys recommend to stimulate the turf? How often?


----------



## bmadams

I used greentrx 1lb N/1000 sq ft


----------



## smurg

JayGo said:


> After leveling with sand, what fertilizer do you guys recommend to stimulate the turf? How often?


Urea (or ammonium sulfate if you have high ph) if you want a quick boost. Else, whatever your soil test indicated.


----------



## Bmossin

A few progression pictures from my Ring camera.

June 26



July 5



July 9


----------



## tcorbitt20

Coming along nicely @Bmossin. Well done!


----------



## LittleTino

Update on my Zeon Zoysia. Really happy with the results so far. Mowing at 1/2" now with no uneven heights between adjacent passes. Very consistent color and appearance across the yard.

Prior to leveling. Lots of scalp marks, low spots from trenching irrigation, and settling


Day of leveling


Day 17


Shot from this morning after last nights mow.


----------



## andymac7

I'm in the Ohio river valley, and I'm assuming I'm a bit late now to level my bermuda. What do you all think? We usually see our first frost mid October. Last year it was the first week of November.

If you all think I'm ok to level now, my main concern is causing my soil to hold less heat in winter by adding all of that sand, and risking winterkill to my Yukon. Is this just silly? Would it make any difference?

We see single digits 1-2 times a winter and rarely get below 0. I've hit it pretty hard this year with Celsius to clear out weeds and cool season grasses, so it's still recovering from that also.


----------



## Harry9837

What type of fertilizer did you put down afterwards?


----------



## JayGo

smurg said:


> JayGo said:
> 
> 
> 
> After leveling with sand, what fertilizer do you guys recommend to stimulate the turf? How often?
> 
> 
> 
> Urea (or ammonium sulfate if you have high ph) if you want a quick boost. Else, whatever your soil test indicated.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, smurg!


----------



## ElbertoHokie

smurg said:


> drewwitt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> smurg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cart full of crap I could gather:
> 
> 
> I recommend sticking with 100% sand.
> 
> 
> 
> I just got a panic attack looking at the contents of that cart. I'm going to go to the garage to console my reel mower.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A light push broom over top helps knock the big stuff around. Will still take multiple days and I've learned my lesson lol.
> 
> Had a 1/4" screen but bought a 1/8" and will put it back through to reclaim any good stuff I pick back up when trying to corral the sticks/stones. A bunch of the balls in the cart are still dirt balls, so I may try to smash them with my tamper before sifting. Still, it's a bunch of work I could have just avoided, sigh.
Click to expand...

I manage a Sand Mine in Alabama. We have a customer that buys the crap we scrape off of our yard with our front end loader. He hauls it away, "screens it", and mixes it with top soil and sells to people and municipalities for that exact same thing. There's not telling what you're going to get in that situation. We only charge our customer here $1 a ton for the scrapings.

If you buy clean sand, we charge $15 a ton. But it's guaranteed clean.


----------



## MarkV

Took me 2.5 days to do my whole yard (~3K sq feet), and I drank 4 gal + of water over that time frame, with lots of breaks. This heat is no joke, heat index was well over 100 degrees all 3 days.

Huge thanks to @DR_GREENTHUMB for letting me barrow some tools.

Pre-sand


Sand day


Sand day +1. Wet from watering.


----------



## T0R0

You guys doing this in the heat of summer deserve a dedication award!!! I did my yard in May and it was still exhausting!


----------



## Sublime

I'm just telling myself that I'm going to be able to ignore the heat while also chugging a bottle of Gatorade every five minutes. Cuz that makes sense.


----------



## MarkV

T0R0 said:


> You guys doing this in the heat of summer deserve a dedication award!!! I did my yard in May and it was still exhausting!


I'm only doing it at this time of year because the kids are out of town for 7-10 days. If they were here I would have as much sand in the house as outside. 

Otherwise I would highly recommend, not doing this in the heat. It was brutal.


----------



## Jimefam

Leveled for the second time today. Exactly a year ago i leveled everything as it was really messed up from the builder. This was last time.



Came out pretty decent and ive been cutting at .5" but there are a few spots that needed touching up.



Also last time I ran out of sand to do much on the other side of my driveway so I used alot there today. Hopefully will be better then it was and im just excited to see if i can get it down to .375"


----------



## drewwitt

LittleTino said:


> Update on my Zeon Zoysia.
> 
> Shot from this morning after last nights mow.


Well done! I have Zeon, leveled earlier this year, and reel cut at .5". In my opinion, there isn't a more beautiful and softer grass in those conditions.


----------



## agrassman

Put down 18 tons of sand in June 20th.



Cut it today before we get more rain.


----------



## Redtwin

I got started on round 2 of leveling this year. Holy moly it was hot out there. I'm in decent shape and climatized and it still wore my butt out. I couldn't drink water fast enough.


----------



## JayGo

Finally got around to leveling my lawn after a year of reading/researching the best practices. Thanks to many of you on this forum, I felt educated and confident enough to finally do it.

My rotary mower doesn't cut lower than 1 & 1/8", so I scalped my lawn best I could by mowing in every direction in attempts to reveal all of the low spots. It hurt to do it, because the lawn looked really bad.
One thing that may be worth mentioning is that I had to use 9.5 cub yds total to level 5300 sq ft! I'm amazed that it all disappeared without smothering the lawn.

But here's a pic of what the turf looked like in both the front and back BEFORE I scalped:


Below are some Before/After pics of the leveling.
Front Yard:






Back Yard:


----------



## DuncanMcDonuts

@JayGo What landscape supply did you end up going with? I'm curious how your experience was.


----------



## JayGo

@DuncanMcDonuts 
I went with Whittlesey only because they're closer to me, and I wanted to be to be able to pay them a visit if I had any issues with the sand I ordered.
It was screened pretty well. I was worried based on some of the horror stories shared on this very thread.

I was able to place both sand orders over the phone with no issues. Delivery driver was great, too.


----------



## Passat774

When is to late to sand? Can I sand twice this year?

I live in Chesapeake, Virginia and my typical first frost date is not until November 22nd..


----------



## MarkV

Sand day +5.


----------



## Redtwin

Passat774 said:


> When is to late to sand? Can I sand twice this year?
> 
> I live in Chesapeake, Virginia and my typical first frost date is not until November 22nd..


I've sanded twice this year and will probably do the same next year, though my season is a bit longer down here. You should be fine through July. I also have the advantage of my grass being in full rebound from PGR right now so I'm hoping it will grow through quickly.


----------



## bryanr

Sand day for me was Saturday. Living on a golf course has advantages. They let me borrow the machine they put out sand with. It made it so easy. I will be doing it again soon. I put out 7 yards or 10 tons over 7k sq ft.


----------



## Bmossin

bryanr said:


> Sand day for me was Saturday. Living on a golf course has advantages. They let me borrow the machine they put out sand with. It made it so easy.


I am so jealous.


----------



## JayGo

bryanr said:


> Sand day for me was Saturday. Living on a golf course has advantages. They let me borrow the machine they put out sand with. It made it so easy.


I looked at renting that when i saw that such a machine existed. Unfortunately, i couldn't find a place that had them available for rent. After shoveling, spreading, and brushing-in 9.5 cub yds of sand by hand by myself, I would've pretty much paid anything for it. Ha ha
Hoping it wont be nearly as much work when i do some leveling touch ups next year.


----------



## Kicker

I am almost 14 days post top dressing and have mowed once.. I don't feel like i achieved anything with the top dressing in regards to leveling/smoothing out the undulations and bumps. There wasn't any undulations too severe and i know I was short on sand by about 1 yard. I did not take into account that i'd need more sand due to aerating prior to top dressing.

Anyhow, i was wondering if anyone had experienced the same issue? I'm trying to pinpoint any errors i may have done so as to not repeat them in the future.

Steps
1: Scalp yard to 5/8".
2: Aerate (double passes)
3: pick up and discard cores
4: top dress with sand (5 cu. yds) 
5: drag with custom built drag (5'x2') this might be the issue. i'm thinking it is not heavy enough but it seemed to be working great when in use. 
6: Lightly broom over entire lawn multiple passes.


----------



## Bmossin

Kicker said:


> I am almost 14 days post top dressing and have mowed once.. I don't feel like i achieved anything with the top dressing in regards to leveling/smoothing out the undulations and bumps. There wasn't any undulations too severe and i know I was short on sand by about 1 yard. I did not take into account that i'd need more sand due to aerating prior to top dressing.
> 
> Anyhow, i was wondering if anyone had experienced the same issue? I'm trying to pinpoint any errors i may have done so as to not repeat them in the future.


I feel like I had similar results...like the ground just ate up my sand and did not level as much as i thought it would. I know it is going to be a multi year process, but I guess I also hoped for a little more bang for my buck.


----------



## CenlaLowell

Bmossin said:


> Kicker said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am almost 14 days post top dressing and have mowed once.. I don't feel like i achieved anything with the top dressing in regards to leveling/smoothing out the undulations and bumps. There wasn't any undulations too severe and i know I was short on sand by about 1 yard. I did not take into account that i'd need more sand due to aerating prior to top dressing.
> 
> Anyhow, i was wondering if anyone had experienced the same issue? I'm trying to pinpoint any errors i may have done so as to not repeat them in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like I had similar results...like the ground just ate up my sand and did not level as much as i thought it would. I know it is going to be a multi year process, but I guess I also hoped for a little more bang for my buck.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean this is year two for me. I'm really thinking about hiring a crew to do this because I need to spread a hell of a lot of sand.


----------



## bryanr

I agree. I wish I would have put out twice as much as I did. I think I'm going to repeat the process in a few weeks.


----------



## flynavy812

There's a Facebook market ad for ~3 tons of clean sand for 55.00, I will have to load myself. I'm thinking of giving it a shot for some small areas.. good thing its only going to be 101 tomorrow before heat index.


----------



## JayGo

Kicker said:


> I am almost 14 days post top dressing and have mowed once.. I don't feel like i achieved anything with the top dressing in regards to leveling/smoothing out the undulations and bumps. There wasn't any undulations too severe and i know I was short on sand by about 1 yard.
> 
> Anyhow, i was wondering if anyone had experienced the same issue?


You mentioned that your drag mat maybe isn't heavy enough. I'm not sure how heavy it actually is, but i used a 31 lb drag and it worked pretty well when i started to spread sand. But then i threw on an additonal 45lbs on it to really help press the mat down. It really made a huge difference. It moved sand in areas that I thought I'd already finished. Just a thought for next time.

...and I am inclined to agree that the sand just disappears into the lawn. I used twice the recommended amount of sand per 1000 sq ft, and I see so much less sand than what i see in others pictures.


----------



## smurg

Passat774 said:


> When is to late to sand? Can I sand twice this year?
> 
> I live in Chesapeake, Virginia and my typical first frost date is not until November 22nd..


Its never too late if you're fine with it showing and the grass not filling in during a dormant season. Ideally I'd want at least 1 month left of the peak growing season.


----------



## JayGo

Wooooohh, the first mow I did AFTER leveling with sand completely cleaned the bottom of the deck of my rotary mower! Talk about sand blasting the deck and the blades. I expected the sand to do some damage to the blades, so i swapped out my good set for an old one. DAMN! I flipped the mower over to hose off the bottom like I normally do, and it was clean.
What do you guys with reel mowers do?


----------



## ctrav

JayGo said:


> Wooooohh, the first mow I did AFTER leveling with sand completely cleaned the bottom of the deck of my rotary mower! Talk about sand blasting the deck and the blades. I expected the sand to do some damage to the blades, so i swapped out my good set for an old one. DAMN! I flipped the mower over to hose off the bottom like I normally do, and it was clean.
> What do you guys with reel mowers do?


Good question...Since Im going to be changing out the reel next year I will use the old reel until sanding is completed...


----------



## TNTurf

ctrav said:


> JayGo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wooooohh, the first mow I did AFTER leveling with sand completely cleaned the bottom of the deck of my rotary mower! Talk about sand blasting the deck and the blades. I expected the sand to do some damage to the blades, so i swapped out my good set for an old one. DAMN! I flipped the mower over to hose off the bottom like I normally do, and it was clean.
> What do you guys with reel mowers do?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question...Since Im going to be changing out the reel next year I will use the old reel until sanding is completed...
Click to expand...

Not sure how much sand you have but in one mow, you can convert a sharp reel to one with rounded edges. The fix after sand is a grind. Golf courses are equipped for the activity. I know you said you are replacing your reel but if you want to mow with it and cut grass any this season without taking it in I would suggest a different mower for a bit. Maybe a CL rotary or something. The guy that sharpens my reel converted a just sharpened reel to one you could run your finger across the edge of in one mow. He has a putting green he's working on for fun.


----------



## ctrav

TNTurf said:


> ctrav said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JayGo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wooooohh, the first mow I did AFTER leveling with sand completely cleaned the bottom of the deck of my rotary mower! Talk about sand blasting the deck and the blades. I expected the sand to do some damage to the blades, so i swapped out my good set for an old one. DAMN! I flipped the mower over to hose off the bottom like I normally do, and it was clean.
> What do you guys with reel mowers do?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question...Since Im going to be changing out the reel next year I will use the old reel until sanding is completed...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not sure how much sand you have but in one mow, you can convert a sharp reel to one with rounded edges. The fix after sand is a grind. Golf courses are equipped for the activity. I know you said you are replacing your reel but if you want to mow with it and cut grass any this season without taking it in I would suggest a different mower for a bit. Maybe a CL rotary or something. The guy that sharpens my reel converted a just sharpened reel to one you could run your finger across the edge of in one mow. He has a putting green he's working on for fun.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. I have a rotary I could use and cut at 1 inch after the sanding. As for the reel if I used it your saying I would have to grind or could I just baklap?


----------



## Redtwin

I have an old Yard Machine rotary that I use in the sand until the grass fills in a bit. I try not to run the GM1000 through the sand but thanks to @Brackin4au and @Jacob_S I have started running it through the sanded area with the reel disengaged to help level a bit more.


----------



## JRS 9572

@bryanr

Hope you did something nice for the folks on the crew at the course. They did you a huge solid. Saved your back and a heat stroke.

Man what a resource.


----------



## AZChemist

Here is my pre-bermuda leveling. 
Now up to 5 tons for 2.5k sqft.


----------



## TNTurf

ctrav said:


> TNTurf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ctrav said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good question...Since Im going to be changing out the reel next year I will use the old reel until sanding is completed...
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure how much sand you have but in one mow, you can convert a sharp reel to one with rounded edges. The fix after sand is a grind. Golf courses are equipped for the activity. I know you said you are replacing your reel but if you want to mow with it and cut grass any this season without taking it in I would suggest a different mower for a bit. Maybe a CL rotary or something. The guy that sharpens my reel converted a just sharpened reel to one you could run your finger across the edge of in one mow. He has a putting green he's working on for fun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the advice. I have a rotary I could use and cut at 1 inch after the sanding. As for the reel if I used it your saying I would have to grind or could I just baklap?
Click to expand...

Backlapping is basically running sand through the reel in reverse. Mowing sand is like running it forward so it has the same effect. You could try backlapping but really that is to restore a nearly good edge. The sand will round the blades generally requiring a grind to restore. I love to mow low but if/when I do the full sand job my reel will be left in the garage until the grass grows through fully.


----------



## ctrav

TNTurf said:


> ctrav said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNTurf said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure how much sand you have but in one mow, you can convert a sharp reel to one with rounded edges. The fix after sand is a grind. Golf courses are equipped for the activity. I know you said you are replacing your reel but if you want to mow with it and cut grass any this season without taking it in I would suggest a different mower for a bit. Maybe a CL rotary or something. The guy that sharpens my reel converted a just sharpened reel to one you could run your finger across the edge of in one mow. He has a putting green he's working on for fun.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice. I have a rotary I could use and cut at 1 inch after the sanding. As for the reel if I used it your saying I would have to grind or could I just baklap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Backlapping is basically running sand through the reel in reverse. Mowing sand is like running it forward so it has the same effect. You could try backlapping but really that is to restore a nearly good edge. The sand will round the blades generally requiring a grind to restore. I love to mow low but if/when I do the full sand job my reel will be left in the garage until the grass grows through fully.
Click to expand...

In that case Im happy I kept the old recycler around :thumbup:  :thumbup:


----------



## Passat774

Had some fun today


----------



## bmadams

July 18 update



July 24th Almost 1 month after sand



August 1st. First mow with JD220A after sanding


----------



## Two9tene

bmadams said:


> July 18 update


Looking good team!!!


----------



## mha2345

Round 2 for me starts tomorrow, 5 yards of sand ready to go


----------



## bmadams

Thank you!



Two9tene said:


> bmadams said:
> 
> 
> 
> July 18 update
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking good team!!!
Click to expand...


----------



## duffman

mha2345 said:
 

> Round 2 for me starts tomorrow, 5 yards of sand ready to go


Is that really 5 yards? Looks closer to 2 if I was to guess. Just wondering cause I might just be able to put that in the back of the truck instead of paying for delivery...


----------



## bmadams

July 24th Almost 1 month after sand



August 1st. First mow with JD220A after sanding


----------



## ctrav

bmadams said:


> July 24th Almost 1 month after sand


Looks good...


----------



## mha2345

duffman said:


> mha2345 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Round 2 for me starts tomorrow, 5 yards of sand ready to go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that really 5 yards? Looks closer to 2 if I was to guess. Just wondering cause I might just be able to put that in the back of the truck instead of paying for delivery...
Click to expand...

Yeah, it is.. those pictures don't do it justice just how much sand it is.. here's what's left after dropping all these piles..


----------



## CenlaLowell

When leveling do you all put weights on your drag mat???? Last time I just used the mat as is but I'm wondering if I should have made it heavier

Also anybody doing a leveling job in August??


----------



## RangersFC

I'm a newbie to bermuda grass, and had Tifway 419 sod laid last summer. I was very unhappy with all the bumps, and found this forum and thread when I searched online for how to level a bermuda lawn . I quickly learned I needed to ignore the advice of local experts who say sand is the worst thing to put on your lawn. I also learned I needed a reel mower, so I went out and bought a 27in Tru Cut. Thanks to everyone who has posted their advice, and I wanted to use my first post to describe my current leveling project.

Basic info:
~4,000 sq. ft. of Bermuda Tifway 419 installed in April, 2018
Located in California Central Valley
Used 4.5 yards of plaster sand (washed and screened)

Step 1 - July 2nd: Scalp the lawn



Step 2 - July 2nd: Core Aerate using rented equipment



Step 3 - July 2nd: employ my kids to remove all the cores with rakes and dustpans :lol:

Step 4 - July 2nd: Delivery of 4.5 yards of what the local ag store calls "plaster sand" which is washed and screened.



Step 5 - July 2nd: Use a Gorilla cart, large landscaping rake, 3x5 drag mat, and brooms to spread the sand and work it into the grass. I had me, my wife and a total of 6 kids from the neighborhood helping. We were all exhausted.




Step 6 - July 3rd: Had our landscaper lay down some fertilizer.

Step 7: Wait for the grass to grow.

July 6 (4 days post sand)



July 13 (11 days post sand) - This was the day of my first mow with the Tru-Cut since sanding on July 2.



July 29 (27 days post sand)



Lessons learned
-I could have easily used 1-2 more yards of sand. With how fast the grass grew back, I know I probably used too little. It's been over 100 degrees for a month, so the grass is growing like crazy.
-This project produced great results, and really smoothed out the lawn. 
-For my next leveling project, I'm thinking of using a 10ft x 3ft stiff leveling drag (like I've seen on other posts) to truly level the lawn, as opposed to just smoothing it. The process I used did a great job of getting bumps out, but I'd like to work toward a more level and constant surface.


----------



## ctrav

RangersFC said:


> I'm a newbie to bermuda grass, and had Tifway 419 sod laid last summer. I was very unhappy with all the bumps, and found this forum and thread when I searched online for how to level a bermuda lawn . I quickly learned I needed to ignore the advice of local experts who say sand is the worst thing to put on your lawn. I also learned I needed a reel mower, so I went out and bought a 27in Tru Cut. Thanks to everyone who has posted their advice, and I wanted to use my first post to describe my current leveling project.
> 
> Basic info:
> ~4,000 sq. ft. of Bermuda Tifway 419 installed in April, 2018
> Located in California Central Valley
> 
> Lessons learned
> -I could have easily used 1-2 more yards of sand. With how fast the grass grew back, I know I probably used too little. It's been over 100 degrees for a month, so the grass is growing like crazy.
> -This project produced great results, and really smoothed out the lawn.
> -For my next leveling project, I'm thinking of using a 10ft x 3ft stiff leveling drag (like I've seen on other posts) to truly level the lawn, as opposed to just smoothing it. The process I used did a great job of getting bumps out, but I'd like to work toward a more level and constant surface.
> 
> Step 1 - July 2nd: Scalp the lawn
> 
> 
> 
> Step 2 - July 2nd: Core Aerate using rented equipment
> 
> 
> 
> Step 3 - July 2nd: employ my kids to remove all the cores with rakes and dustpans :lol:
> 
> Step 4 - July 2nd: Delivery of 4.5 yards of what the local ag store calls "plaster sand" which is washed and screened.
> 
> 
> 
> Step 5 - July 2nd: Use a Gorilla cart, large landscaping rake, 3x5 drag mat, and brooms to spread the sand and work it into the grass. I had me, my wife and a total of 6 kids from the neighborhood helping. We were all exhausted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Step 6 - July 3rd: Had our landscaper lay down some fertilizer.
> 
> Step 7: Wait for the grass to grow.
> 
> July 6 (4 days post sand)
> 
> 
> 
> July 13 (11 days post sand) - This was the day of my first mow with the Tru-Cut since sanding on July 2.
> 
> 
> 
> July 29 (27 days post sand)


Well for a newbie you have certainly done a great job!!


----------



## flynavy812

What's the best way to spread without a drag matt? I've used the back of a metal rake before, wondering if there is a better option. My front yard is pretty small so if its tedious it shouldn't be too bad.


----------



## drewwitt

Well done!


----------



## smurg

flynavy812 said:


> What's the best way to spread without a drag matt? I've used the back of a metal rake before, wondering if there is a better option. My front yard is pretty small so if its tedious it shouldn't be too bad.


Landscape rake. Just keep pressure on it downward so it doesn't bounce or lift off the ground much.


----------



## Ware

flynavy812 said:


> What's the best way to spread without a drag matt? I've used the back of a metal rake before, wondering if there is a better option. My front yard is pretty small so if its tedious it shouldn't be too bad.


Large broom.


----------



## JayGo

flynavy812 said:


> What's the best way to spread without a drag matt?


Having just done this myself for the 1st time, I'd say that a landscape rake and a push broom are essential. I used the rake for spreading large amounts of sand around and the broom to brush the sand into the grass blades down to the soil.


----------



## JayGo

CenlaLowell said:


> When leveling do you all put weights on your drag mat?


I began my leveling project with no weight on my drag mat since i was pulling by hand on 5300 sq ft. But about 6 days after i was done, a neighbor offered up his ATV, so i dragged the yard again and threw on 45 lbs on the mat. It worked way better with weight on it in my situation.


----------



## Two9tene

CenlaLowell said:


> When leveling do you all put weights on your drag mat???? Last time I just used the mat as is but I'm wondering if I should have made it heavier
> 
> Also anybody doing a leveling job in August??


Yes I put weights on the makeshift drag. Also, I'm contemplating an August leveling job...


----------



## andymac7

Ok, this might seem like a silly question, but leveling with pure sand for me sounds risky.

Crazy right? lol I know. Hear me out. I'm in the upper transition zone. I have Yukon bermuda (mostly). I've read over and over that sandy soils hold less heat and get colder faster in winter. So, always being concerned slightly about winterkill come spring, how worried should I be to level with just sand? And if I throw in some soil, what ratio would you all recommend?

For perspective, we had one night to reach 0 last winter, but that's slightly below average for us. We sometimes go 3 days below freezing. So, I suppose that's the coolest part of zone 7.

Sorry for the dumb question, just been wondering about that.

Regardless, I'm waiting til next year to try and level. Very bumpy lawn. I'm cutting at about 2.75" right now


----------



## Two9tene

@andymac7 
I'm in the southern end of the transition zone so I can attest to the extreme weather changes. For my leveling projects I utilize a 70/30 sand soil mix. The natural soil here in pure clay so adding just sand, in my mind, doesn't help with irrigation and CEC (nutrient exchange).

Nonetheless, the mix has worked out just fine for me. Hope this helps!


----------



## smurg

Two9tene said:


> @andymac7
> I'm in the southern end of the transition zone so I can attest to the extreme weather changes. For my leveling projects I utilize a 70/30 sand soil mix. The natural soil here in pure clay so adding just sand, in my mind, doesn't help with irrigation and CEC (nutrient exchange).
> 
> Nonetheless, the mix has worked out just fine for me. Hope this helps!


Clay (even weathered) has a relatively high CEC already. I don't think any commercially available topsoil that's reasonably priced would have a higher CEC either, but I could be wrong.


----------



## andymac7

Two9tene said:


> @andymac7
> I'm in the southern end of the transition zone so I can attest to the extreme weather changes. For my leveling projects I utilize a 70/30 sand soil mix. The natural soil here in pure clay so adding just sand, in my mind, doesn't help with irrigation and CEC (nutrient exchange).
> 
> Nonetheless, the mix has worked out just fine for me. Hope this helps!


According to the Arbor Day hardiness map, we're actually in the same zone, believe it or not (You're probably at the warmer end however). So yes, your reply is certainly helpful. I think I'm going with sand/soil next year.

As far as CEC, I'm not really concerned about whether or not adding soil improves it. It's of course just a leveling project after all.  I know the reel guys don't want any kind of debris or sticks from the soil, but since I'm still rotary, I'm sure it will be fine at my high HOC.


----------



## CenlaLowell

Okay,

I got my plan together. I'm thinking I'm going to sand two areas in my yard. The week I'm thinking is August 9-11. Now our first Frost is around Thanksgiving.

I'm wondering if this is enough time for the grass to grow through????

This area definitely needs a lot of leveling


----------



## ctrav

CenlaLowell said:


> Okay,
> 
> I got my plan together. I'm thinking I'm going to sand two areas in my yard. The week I'm thinking is August 9-11. Now our first Frost is around Thanksgiving.
> 
> I'm wondering if this is enough time for the grass to grow through????
> 
> This area definitely needs a lot of leveling


I'm betting it's plenty of time. I did a 1/4" and grass was completely back to normal in 3 weeks...


----------



## Indianola Burns

First post ever. I'm leveling my Bermuda grass professionally using half an inch of sand across the yard. The professional asked me to cut as low as I could but to not violate the 1/3 rule of cutting in a single pass. My question is why do I need to cut my yard multiple times in a day to not violate the 1/3 rule, can't I just do it all at the same time?


----------



## ctrav

Indianola Burns said:


> First post ever. I'm leveling my Bermuda grass professionally using half an inch of sand across the yard. The professional asked me to cut as low as I could but to not violate the 1/3 rule of cutting in a single pass. My question is why do I need to cut my yard multiple times in a day to not violate the 1/3 rule, can't I just do it all at the same time?


How tall is the grass right now? What is your normal cutting height?

I would make multiple passes and bag the last pass or two before sanding...


----------



## Kicker

I'd cut it all off at once and bag it.

multiple passes are achieving the same results with the same effect on the grass as just doing it in one go. Spend less time in the heat/sun, less fuel, etc...


----------



## jimbeckel

Core aerated, collected the cores with the brush attachment on the allett mower and now putting downs five scoops of fine sand and finishing it off with nitrogen and watering


----------



## JayGo

In case anyone is curious, here are a couple of update pictures of my leveling project.
These are 4-week progress pics.





This last one is more of a 2 week progress pic.


Now, it's time to work on my flower/shrub beds. I also need to finish staining my back fence and look into possibly installing some solar-powered lights.


----------



## ctrav

JayGo said:


> In case anyone is curious, here are a couple of update pictures of my leveling project.
> These are 4-week progress pics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This last one is more of a 2 week progress pic.
> 
> 
> Now, it's time to work on my flower/shrub beds. I also need to finish staining my back fence and look into possibly installing some solar-powered lights.


Looking good...great work!!


----------



## lynchburg14

New here and so is my lawn. I installed TifTuf bermuda in my front yard on May 31st and did the back on July 12th. In total I layed 11 pallets of sod. I got the front yard leveled pretty well but the back is not. My question is when should I cut it down low (still haven't bought a reel mower unfortunately) and sand to level. Living in VA it will start to go dormant end of September. I was thinking it was best to just let it be for this season and next May aerate and sand. What are yalls expert opinions?


----------



## ctrav

lynchburg14 said:


> New here and so is my lawn. I installed TifTuf bermuda in my front yard on May 31st and did the back on July 12th. In total I layed 11 pallets of sod. I got the front yard leveled pretty well but the back is not. My question is when should I cut it down low (still haven't bought a reel mower unfortunately) and sand to level. Living in VA it will start to go dormant end of September. I was thinking it was best to just let it be for this season and next May aerate and sand. What are yalls expert opinions?


What is your current HOC? Why not just cut as low as you can without scalping next spring an see what that is? If you can cut at 1.5" or less then great...keep cutting at the lowest height and find a reel mower. Get a soil test and feed the new lawn for a year so it's good and healthy. This will also give you time to get to know your lawn...


----------



## lynchburg14

ctrav said:


> lynchburg14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> New here and so is my lawn. I installed TifTuf bermuda in my front yard on May 31st and did the back on July 12th. In total I layed 11 pallets of sod. I got the front yard leveled pretty well but the back is not. My question is when should I cut it down low (still haven't bought a reel mower unfortunately) and sand to level. Living in VA it will start to go dormant end of September. I was thinking it was best to just let it be for this season and next May aerate and sand. What are yalls expert opinions?
> 
> 
> 
> What is your current HOC? Why not just cut as low as you can without scalping next spring an see what that is? If you can cut at 1.5" or less then great...keep cutting at the lowest height and find a reel mower. Get a soil test and feed the new lawn for a year so it's good and healthy. This will also give you time to get to know your lawn...
Click to expand...

Honestly I am not sure what my HOC is but it is higher than I need. It looks more like the rough on a golf course hight. I am cutting everything on the 3rd notch out of 5 on my mower because when I drop to 2.5 it leaves to many half moons and leaves mostly brown spots and not green.


----------



## JayGo

ctrav said:


> lynchburg14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> New here and so is my lawn. I installed TifTuf bermuda in my front yard on May 31st and did the back on July 12th. In total I layed 11 pallets of sod. I got the front yard leveled pretty well but the back is not. My question is when should I cut it down low (still haven't bought a reel mower unfortunately) and sand to level. Living in VA it will start to go dormant end of September. I was thinking it was best to just let it be for this season and next May aerate and sand. What are yalls expert opinions?
> 
> 
> 
> What is your current HOC? Why not just cut as low as you can without scalping next spring an see what that is? If you can cut at 1.5" or less then great...keep cutting at the lowest height and find a reel mower. Get a soil test and feed the new lawn for a year so it's good and healthy. This will also give you time to get to know your lawn...
Click to expand...

I concur with @ctrav 
Safest thing would be to just wait until the spring and give the sod time to really establish.


----------



## drewwitt

+2

Let it establish this fall and winter.

In the spring, as soon at it greens up, scalp to 1/2". Sand. Buy a reel with a front roller and you'll be on your way.


----------



## CenlaLowell

Ok everyone I started leveling today. This sand looks like it would be plenty but it doesn't go very far. I'll probably use all 5 yards in this area


----------



## ctrav

CenlaLowell said:


> Ok everyone I started leveling today. This sand looks like it would be plenty but it doesn't go very far. I'll probably use all 5 yards in this area


You going to drag it or rake? How big is the area your sanding?


----------



## CenlaLowell

ctrav said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok everyone I started leveling today. This sand looks like it would be plenty but it doesn't go very far. I'll probably use all 5 yards in this area
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You going to drag it or rake? How big is the area your sanding?
Click to expand...

I'm raking it down then dragging it with a 3 x 5 mat. The area is around 7500 sq ft


----------



## ctrav

CenlaLowell said:


> ctrav said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok everyone I started leveling today. This sand looks like it would be plenty but it doesn't go very far. I'll probably use all 5 yards in this area
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You going to drag it or rake? How big is the area your sanding?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm raking it down then dragging it with a 3 x 5 mat. The area is around 7500 sq ft
Click to expand...

With that size seems you may need more sand. I will be doing 8k of front lawn next spring and I'm betting it will take close to 10 yards of sand. Then again seems I have been off on all my measurements lately 😩


----------



## CenlaLowell

ctrav said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ctrav said:
> 
> 
> 
> You going to drag it or rake? How big is the area your sanding?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm raking it down then dragging it with a 3 x 5 mat. The area is around 7500 sq ft
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With that size seems you may need more sand. I will be doing 8k of front lawn next spring and I'm betting it will take close to 10 yards of sand. Then again seems I have been off on all my measurements lately 😩
Click to expand...

I not long finished and yes your right I will need more sand. This sucks, but I keep telling myself keep plugging along you'll get there😒


----------



## Bmossin

I was walking around my back yard and I swear it could use another 4 yards on about 2000 square feet. It just ate it all up.

I did my leveling Father's Day weekend.


----------



## CenlaLowell

How often do you all water after sanding???


----------



## Mightyquinn

CenlaLowell said:


> How often do you all water after sanding???


I would say you want to do a really heavy watering right after the initial sanding and then after that just make sure it's getting enough water not to dry out. To me it seems like the areas that get more sand tend to hold water a little better so going nuts with the watering will just waste water and may lead to some fungus issues.


----------



## CenlaLowell

Mightyquinn said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> How often do you all water after sanding???
> 
> 
> 
> I would say you want to do a really heavy watering right after the initial sanding and then after that just make sure it's getting enough water not to dry out. To me it seems like the areas that get more sand tend to hold water a little better so going nuts with the watering will just waste water and may lead to some fungus issues.
Click to expand...

Im watering from 6am-9am only the area I sanded. I've also put a low dose of 36-0-0 in that area.

I have about six weeks of really hot weather left and I want to make sure I take advantage and get this grass to grow through.


----------



## bmadams

bmadams said:


> Just made my first attempt at leveling the front and back. Hopefully it helps, it was really harder than you think it will be. The first two photos are after scalp and aerating and sanding, the last picture is before I scalped cut at about 1.5" with rotary. Looking forward to using my JD greensmower on the front in a week or so. This is only the front yard I will try to get pics of backyard tomorrow.
> 
> June 28
> 
> 
> July 2
> 
> 
> July 2
> 
> 
> July 5th
> 
> 
> July 10th
> 
> 
> July 18 update
> 
> 
> 
> July 24th Almost 1 month after sand
> 
> 
> 
> August 1st. First mow with JD220A after sanding
> 
> 
> 
> August 12th after double
> Mow at 7/16" before trimming, edging, and blowing off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After trimming, edging, and blowing


----------



## LoCutt

TNTurf said "I love to mow low but if/when I do the full sand job my reel will be left in the garage until the grass grows through fully."

I second that motion.


----------



## jakemauldin

Bmossin said:


> I was walking around my back yard and I swear it could use another 4 yards on about 2000 square feet. It just ate it all up.
> 
> I did my leveling Father's Day weekend.


Is that a Catahoula you have there?


----------



## Bmossin

jakemauldin said:


> Is that a Catahoula you have there?


No...he is our Mutt..some kind of hound...maybe Plott and potentially some Mastiff mixed in there we were told.


----------



## AdamA

JayGo said:


> Finally got around to leveling my lawn after a year of reading/researching the best practices. Thanks to many of you on this forum, I felt educated and confident enough to finally do it.
> 
> My rotary mower doesn't cut lower than 1 & 1/8", so I scalped my lawn best I could by mowing in every direction in attempts to reveal all of the low spots. It hurt to do it, because the lawn looked really bad.
> One thing that may be worth mentioning is that I had to use 9.5 cub yds total to level 5300 sq ft! I'm amazed that it all disappeared without smothering the lawn.
> 
> But here's a pic of what the turf looked like in both the front and back BEFORE I scalped:
> 
> Below are some Before/After pics of the leveling.
> Front Yard:
> 
> Back Yard:


WOW! That's a LOT of sand for just 5300! I though the general rule was 1cub yd per 1000' ? (I only have ~5000' myself, that's why I ask). I'm going to do mine at the start of growing in 2020.


----------



## jw38

I'm planning to use a 80/20 mixture of sand and organic material to level my front lawn (about 3500 sq ft) in the Spring. I had TiffTuff sod laid in May and it grew incredibly well until we were put on watering restrictions by our water supply company (don't get me started!) and that, along with virtually no rain and temperatures of 100 degrees or more for the past two weeks has really stressed my lawn. It's relatively level right now but I want to make it look better than it already does. I just bought a reel mower and I'll probably use it once or twice before the end of the growing season. I'll take the grass down in the Spring with my rotary mower, then I'll level it, and provided we get some rain, I'll start using my reel mower again once the lawn recovers. Wish me luck!


----------



## Two9tene

jw38 said:


> I'm planning to use a 80/20 mixture of sand and organic material to level my front lawn (about 3500 sq ft) in the Spring. I had TiffTuff sod laid in May and it grew incredibly well until we were put on watering restrictions by our water supply company (don't get me started!) and that, along with virtually no rain and temperatures of 100 degrees or more for the past two weeks has really stressed my lawn. It's relatively level right now but I want to make it look better than it already does. I just bought a reel mower and I'll probably use it once or twice before the end of the growing season. I'll take the grass down in the Spring with my rotary mower, then I'll level it, and provided we get some rain, I'll start using my reel mower again once the lawn recovers. Wish me luck!


You got it no luck needed! Just a little elbow grease! Lmao


----------



## JayGo

AdamA said:


> JayGo said:
> 
> 
> 
> One thing that may be worth mentioning is that I had to use 9.5 cub yds total to level 5300 sq ft! I'm amazed that it all disappeared without smothering the lawn.
> 
> 
> 
> WOW! That's a LOT of sand for just 5300! I though the general rule was 1cub yd per 1000' ? (I only have ~5000' myself, that's why I ask). I'm going to do mine at the start of growing in 2020.
Click to expand...

The general rule IS 1 cu. yd/1K. Mine was very uneven...especially in the backyard.


----------



## okgrdnut

I have clay soil, if I use sand to level it, won't that just create cement? I've been topdressing with compost and top soil


----------



## tcorbitt20

okgrdnut said:


> I have clay soil, if I use sand to level it, won't that just create cement? I've been topdressing with compost and top soil


No. It'll put a little sand on top of your turf growing in your clay soil and level the ground. No cement to be found.


----------



## drewwitt

okgrdnut said:


> I have clay soil, if I use sand to level it, won't that just create cement? I've been topdressing with compost and top soil


Common concern. You would need to till lots of sand into the clay to get close to anything like concrete. Golf courses have been top dressing with sand for decades. Only concern would be in alternating sand and then compost, as you'd create layers that would bind up nutrients. Probably best to pick a medium and stick with it. The downside to organic material for leveling is it will decompose over time and not hold a "level" long term - or so the thinking goes.


----------



## smurg

Anyone tackle washout? Basically all 4 sides of my lawn slope to some degree and with the grass growing in at different rates, some sand got washed out in spots and it collects around where the grass has grown in. Raking it back in is a pain in the ***, but I'm thinking of mixing some self-screened topsoil in to trouble spots may help hold it. Anyone else battle this while waiting for the grass to grow back in?


----------



## Two9tene

smurg said:


> Anyone tackle washout? Basically all 4 sides of my lawn slope to some degree and with the grass growing in at different rates, some sand got washed out in spots and it collects around where the grass has grown in. Raking it back in is a pain in the @ss, but I'm thinking of mixing some self-screened topsoil in to trouble spots may help hold it. Anyone else battle this while waiting for the grass to grow back in?


I did. Just chalk it up as a loss. At least that's what I did.


----------



## cousineau18

Is this a good sand to use for leveling? Also I have about 6K SQ FT to level, how many yards is standard to get the job done. [


----------



## Bmossin

cousineau18 said:


> Is this a good sand to use for leveling? Also I have about 6K SQ FT to level, how many yards is standard to get the job done. [


Looks good to me...1 yard per 1,000 square feet is the usual guide...go with more if you have some areas that need a lot of help. I did 4 yards on 2,500 square feet and probably could have used more.


----------



## cousineau18

Bmossin said:


> cousineau18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a good sand to use for leveling? Also I have about 6K SQ FT to level, how many yards is standard to get the job done. [
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks good to me...1 yard per 1,000 square feet is the usual guide...go with more if you have some areas that need a lot of help. I did 4 yards on 2,500 square feet and probably could have used more.
Click to expand...

Good deal. TIA


----------



## tcorbitt20

cousineau18 said:


> Is this a good sand to use for leveling? Also I have about 6K SQ FT to level, how many yards is standard to get the job done. [


That sand looks just right. Figure about 1 yard per 1000 sq ft unless it's really bumpy now and then maybe an extra yard.


----------



## Kicker

cousineau18 said:


> Is this a good sand to use for leveling? Also I have about 6K SQ FT to level, how many yards is standard to get the job done. [


That sand should work. Typically you'll need 1 cubic yard of sand per 1000 sq. ft. If you core aerate prior plan on getting 25% more sand than the 1cu.yd/1k.

I'd potentially shop around to other suppliers, that seems kind of high for the cost of 1 yard. I'm in a different region so that may play a role in my thinking. Also, if you can go inspect the sand prior to buying i would HIGHLY suggest it just to make sure it's clean without debris/rocks mixed in.


----------



## JayGo

Looking for some insight from the group.

So I leveled my Bermudgrass lawn the 1st week of July (few weeks back, I posted pics followed by update pics a few weeks later). Grass came in ridiculously fast. It was super exciting to see that happening considering I used 9.5 cu yds of sand for 5300 sq ft.
Since then, the Texas heat has really kicked a lot of our asses down here. Mine is still the greenest lawn around my immediate area, but some heat stress is unavoidable. 25 of the last 27 days have been well over 100° and not a single drop of rain. One can only water so much to keep the soil moist before the water bill starts to laugh at you.

Any hoo, I have a few small-ish spots where the sand went on a little heavier because of the severe unevenness in that area, and as a result the grass hasn't grown in. Just sand.

What steps can I take to fill in those bare spots? Since there's sand sitting on top of those spots, I would think that seeding is not an option. Should I maybe work in some soil if I want to seed/plug those spots. Everywhere else, the grass did well post-sand leveling. I just have a few spots that show no signs of activity.

Any thoughts and suggestions would be much appreciated.


----------



## smurg

cousineau18 said:


> Is this a good sand to use for leveling? Also I have about 6K SQ FT to level, how many yards is standard to get the job done. [


Looks decent from the pic but make sure it looks like that before you get 5+ cu yard in your driveway if you can. Ask if they have an analysis for particle size. If they're close to ASTM C-144, it should be decent.


----------



## tcorbitt20

JayGo said:


> Looking for some insight from the group.
> 
> So I leveled my Bermudgrass lawn the 1st week of July (few weeks back, I posted pics followed by update pics a few weeks later). Grass came in ridiculously fast. It was super exciting to see that happening considering I used 9.5 cu yds of sand for 5300 sq ft.
> Since then, the Texas heat has really kicked a lot of our asses down here. Mine is still the greenest lawn around my immediate area, but some heat stress is unavoidable. 25 of the last 27 days have been well over 100° and not a single drop of rain. One can only water so much to keep the soil moist before the water bill starts to laugh at you.
> 
> Any hoo, I have a few small-ish spots where the sand went on a little heavier because of the severe unevenness in that area, and as a result the grass hasn't grown in. Just sand.
> 
> What steps can I take to fill in those bare spots? Since there's sand sitting on top of those spots, I would think that seeding is not an option. Should I maybe work in some soil if I want to seed/plug those spots. Everywhere else, the grass did well post-sand leveling. I just have a few spots that show no signs of activity.
> 
> Any thoughts and suggestions would be much appreciated.


I had some spots like that last year that took 43 days before I couldn't tell where they were. You could put a little more Nitrogen down and keep a little water (at least 1" week in that heat), and it should grow in before the season is over. You'll be good.


----------



## DuncanMcDonuts

JayGo said:


> Looking for some insight from the group.
> 
> So I leveled my Bermudgrass lawn the 1st week of July (few weeks back, I posted pics followed by update pics a few weeks later). Grass came in ridiculously fast. It was super exciting to see that happening considering I used 9.5 cu yds of sand for 5300 sq ft.
> Since then, the Texas heat has really kicked a lot of our asses down here. Mine is still the greenest lawn around my immediate area, but some heat stress is unavoidable. 25 of the last 27 days have been well over 100° and not a single drop of rain. One can only water so much to keep the soil moist before the water bill starts to laugh at you.
> 
> Any hoo, I have a few small-ish spots where the sand went on a little heavier because of the severe unevenness in that area, and as a result the grass hasn't grown in. Just sand.
> 
> What steps can I take to fill in those bare spots? Since there's sand sitting on top of those spots, I would think that seeding is not an option. Should I maybe work in some soil if I want to seed/plug those spots. Everywhere else, the grass did well post-sand leveling. I just have a few spots that show no signs of activity.
> 
> Any thoughts and suggestions would be much appreciated.


I'd just water the trouble spots with the hose. It'll fill in in no time. This heat and drought is killer. My water bill got over $200 last month. I'm currently hosing down areas of my yard daily, in particular the grass patch easement between the street and sidewalk. I have drip lines there but I don't think I watered in the fertilizer enough so it burned with the combination of the heat and drought.


----------



## quadmasta

I had some really uneven parts in my yard. How am I supposed to mow without the roller bulldozing the sand?


----------



## Kicker

quadmasta said:


> I had some really uneven parts in my yard. How am I supposed to mow without the roller bulldozing the sand?


mow around those areas if everything else has fully grown through.


----------



## quadmasta

"those areas" are most of the lawn. I double-cut down to a little over a half inch; as low as I could go without the mower stopping itself by high centering. It would normally be due for a cut on Saturday. Do I have to just wait until now has grown through and let it get longer?


----------



## tcorbitt20

Just let it grow. You can always give it a HOC reset later.


----------



## JayGo

@DuncanMcDonuts @tcorbitt20 
Thanks for chiming in, guys. I appreciate it a lot.

I really, really hope water and some nitrogen is the solution. But I am worried, because today I moved the sand around to expose the grass, and the thick turf that was there pre-leveling looks dead. Thankfully, the worst of the bare spots are in my backyard.

Could my problem be a mix of:
1. maybe I did this too late in the Texas summer?
2. maybe it just needed more water than I expected with heat and sand?
3. maybe I didn't apply enough ammonium sulfate...3.5 lbs/1K? I went with the 21-0-0 because of my 7.3 pH. I was pretty scared of going heavier on the nitrogen because I keep reading that standard app rates during the middle of summer are not good for the grass.

And like you @DuncanMcDonuts, I've been watering spots daily, too. ESPECIALLY, that strip of grass between the sidewalk and street. Still, it started to yellow on me this week.

Also, since leveling, the sand has destroyed 2 sets of blades. I'm about to slap on my 3rd set in the weeks since I leveled.

Thanks again, guys, for the reply.


----------



## tcorbitt20

JayGo said:


> @DuncanMcDonuts @tcorbitt20
> Thanks for chiming in, guys. I appreciate it a lot.
> 
> I really, really hope water and some nitrogen is the solution. But I am worried, because today I moved the sand around to expose the grass, and the thick turf that was there pre-leveling looks dead. Thankfully, the worst of the bare spots are in my backyard.
> 
> Could my problem be a mix of:
> 1. maybe I did this too late in the Texas summer?
> 2. maybe it just needed more water than I expected with heat and sand?
> 3. maybe I didn't apply enough ammonium sulfate...3.5 lbs/1K? I went with the 21-0-0 because of my 7.3 pH. I was pretty scared of going heavier on the nitrogen because I keep reading that standard app rates during the middle of summer are not good for the grass.
> 
> And like you @DuncanMcDonuts, I've been watering spots daily, too. ESPECIALLY, that strip of grass between the sidewalk and street. Still, it started to yellow on me this week.
> 
> Also, since leveling, the sand has destroyed 2 sets of blades. I'm about to slap on my 3rd set in the weeks since I leveled.
> 
> Thanks again, guys, for the reply.


How much did you drag it after you spread the sand? That made the biggest difference from last year's project to this year's for me. I'd just let it grow for a while to let it fill in a little better. Don't go crazy with the water, but don't neglect it either. It will fill in. Even if you smothered a few spots, it'll spread and fill back in. It's bermuda. You can't kill it.


----------



## JayGo

tcorbitt20 said:


> JayGo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I really, really hope water and some nitrogen is the solution. But I am worried, because today I moved the sand around to expose the grass, and the thick turf that was there pre-leveling looks dead. Thankfully, the worst of the bare spots are in my backyard.
> 
> Could my problem be a mix of:
> 1. maybe I did this too late in the Texas summer?
> 2. maybe it just needed more water than I expected with heat and sand?
> 3. maybe I didn't apply enough ammonium sulfate...3.5 lbs/1K? I went with the 21-0-0 because of my 7.3 pH. I was pretty scared of going heavier on the nitrogen because I keep reading that standard app rates during the middle of summer are not good for the grass.
> 
> And like you @DuncanMcDonuts, I've been watering spots daily, too. ESPECIALLY, that strip of grass between the sidewalk and street. Still, it started to yellow on me this week.
> 
> 
> 
> How much did you drag it after you spread the sand? That made the biggest difference from last year's project to this year's for me. I'd just let it grow for a while to let it fill in a little better. Don't go crazy with the water, but don't neglect it either. It will fill in. Even if you smothered a few spots, it'll spread and fill back in. It's bermuda. You can't kill it.
Click to expand...

If anything, I probably dragged the lawn way more than necessary. First, by hand with a drag mat, but then I really had fun driving my neighbor's ATV with the drag mat attached. I'll say that 85% of my lawn grew in great, and it was all dragged similarly. It's that 15-ish% that has stopped filling in.

Let me ask this...it's been about 3 weeks since I applied any nitrogen...if I go heavier with irrigation, can I apply a heavier nitrogen rate?


----------



## DuncanMcDonuts

@JayGo You can do 4.76 lbs of ammonium sulfate per 1000 sq ft to get 1 lb of nitrogen down. I've been doing about half that every week for an aggressive growth after my scalp and regrading. The biggest worry with excessive fertilizer during summer is insufficient water that will end up burning the grass. As long as you're still irrigating, it should be fine. I've been irrigating about 1.5" of water a week.

I added about 12 yards of topsoil to 1000 sq ft on my side yard in the middle of July. Some areas got smothered in over 3-4" of topsoil. Some bermuda still ended up popping through. I plugged and sprigged and there's over 50% grow-in by now. It'll probably take another month to have full coverage. Fortunately our grow season lasts through October, so I don't think you're too late on anything.


----------



## JayGo

DuncanMcDonuts said:


> @JayGo You can do 4.76 lbs of ammonium sulfate per 1000 sq ft to get 1 lb of nitrogen down. I've been doing about half that every week for an aggressive growth after my scalp and regrading. The biggest worry with excessive fertilizer during summer is insufficient water that will end up burning the grass. As long as you're still irrigating, it should be fine. I've been irrigating about 1.5" of water a week.
> 
> I added about 12 yards of topsoil to 1000 sq ft on my side yard in the middle of July. Some areas got smothered in over 3-4" of topsoil. Some bermuda still ended up popping through. I plugged and sprigged and there's over 50% grow-in by now. It'll probably take another month to have full coverage. Fortunately our grow season lasts through October, so I don't think you're too late on anything.


12 yards on 1K and it's growing in?! Dang. Bermuda is no joke. :lol: 
I did 3.5 lbs/1K of ammonium sulfate twice, two weeks apart. Then I got scared about the nitrogen. ha ha It was 3 weeks later that I threw down some Carbon X at 2 lbs/1K. Again, I was trying to spoon feed.
Is straight up nitrogen the way to go, or would a bit of potash and phos with the nitrogen be better?


----------



## drewwitt

It's bermuda. It will be fine. Once temps drop a little in September it will go crazy.


----------



## JayGo

drewwitt said:


> It's bermuda. It will be fine. Once temps drop a little in September it will go crazy.


 :thumbup: Thanks @drewwitt 
It was filling in so darn well for about 6 weeks, and then it stopped in some spots. Hoping to get it all back soon.


----------



## ladycage

What is the best temp range for Bermuda to grow in?



drewwitt said:


> It's bermuda. It will be fine. Once temps drop a little in September it will go crazy.


----------



## tcorbitt20

ladycage said:


> What is the best temp range for Bermuda to grow in?
> 
> 
> 
> drewwitt said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's bermuda. It will be fine. Once temps drop a little in September it will go crazy.
Click to expand...

https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/plantanswers/turf/publications/Bermuda.html According to this, the optimum daytime temperature for Bermuda growth is 95°-100° F.


----------



## jpos34

i know its to late now to take on this project, but next spring i want to level my lawn. i dont have a reel mower at the moment only rotary. but it doesnt seem to cut as low as i need it too. any recommendations on rotary mower that would cut lawn shorter lengths. or would you only use a reel mower for this type of project.


----------



## tcorbitt20

jpos34 said:


> i know its to late now to take on this project, but next spring i want to level my lawn. i dont have a reel mower at the moment only rotary. but it doesnt seem to cut as low as i need it too. any recommendations on rotary mower that would cut lawn shorter lengths. or would you only use a reel mower for this type of project.


I think the Honda rotary mowers cut as low as .75". I'm sure somebody will chime in.


----------



## ladycage

Thanks for the info. My bermuda may have time to fill in after quinclorac application the other day. Temps are still in the high 80s lows 90s but little rain.



tcorbitt20 said:


> ladycage said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the best temp range for Bermuda to grow in?
> 
> 
> 
> drewwitt said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's bermuda. It will be fine. Once temps drop a little in September it will go crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/plantanswers/turf/publications/Bermuda.html According to this, the optimum daytime temperature for Bermuda growth is 95°-100° F.
Click to expand...


----------



## Two9tene

tcorbitt20 said:


> ladycage said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the best temp range for Bermuda to grow in?
> 
> 
> 
> drewwitt said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's bermuda. It will be fine. Once temps drop a little in September it will go crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/plantanswers/turf/publications/Bermuda.html According to this, the optimum daytime temperature for Bermuda growth is 95°-100° F.
Click to expand...

Awesome article! Read threw and noticed that it calls for .07" of irrigation a day in order to reach that optimal growth in that temp range though. Thanks for sharing brother!


----------



## tcorbitt20

:thumbup:


----------



## JayGo

tcorbitt20 said:


> jpos34 said:
> 
> 
> 
> i know its to late now to take on this project, but next spring i want to level my lawn. i dont have a reel mower at the moment only rotary. but it doesnt seem to cut as low as i need it too. any recommendations on rotary mower that would cut lawn shorter lengths. or would you only use a reel mower for this type of project.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the Honda rotary mowers cut as low as .75". I'm sure somebody will chime in.
Click to expand...

The HRR only cuts down to 1 & 1/8". I believe the HRX goes down to .75"

@jpos34 
I don't own a reel either. I used my rotary and cut at the lowest setting, which is 1 & 1/8". It definitely seemed more difficult to spread the sand around than what I'd seen in other folks' videos. Even when with my neighbor's ATV, I could tell that it didnt look like the sand was spreading like in the videos I used as reference. But it is do-able.


----------



## Sublime

jpos34 said:


> i know its to late now to take on this project, but next spring i want to level my lawn. i dont have a reel mower at the moment only rotary. but it doesnt seem to cut as low as i need it too. any recommendations on rotary mower that would cut lawn shorter lengths. or would you only use a reel mower for this type of project.


When the time comes, are you referring to scalping before leveling? Take it down to the dirt if you want to. String trimmer if needed.


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## Bsblcoach1989

Ten day difference


----------



## CenlaLowell

Question I'm in Central Louisiana and I always get river sand. Is there a better sand to ask the haulers for????


----------



## Redtwin

I've read that masonry sand is the best. I get what the hauler calls yellow sand and it costs about 1/5 of what masonry costs. It has some debris in it that I have to pick out though not too much. It's no where near as bad as some of the sand I have seen others get on this board.


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## Khs2424

Leveling Question:

Our house sits up probably 10-12 feet from the road. That means that my front yard is a bit of a hill. Would it be a waste of time to try and level it? Just trying to level any ruts or high spots. Is the sand just going to fall down the hill when it rains? I've added a picture of the front yard to give y'all an idea.


----------



## Redtwin

I don't see why you couldn't smooth it out a little at a time so that the grass you have holds it in place. I would do about 1/2 to 3/4 yard per 1000 and drag it in well. It will take a few apps but it beats cleaning the sand off of your driveway and sidewalks. Smoothing out turf is a multi-year endeavor anyway.

Not trying to be Captain Obvious but you'll want to wait until it starts growing strong next spring.


----------



## Khs2424

Redtwin said:


> Not trying to be Captain Obvious but you'll want to wait until it starts growing strong next spring.


  Yes. I'm just doing some thinking for next year.

That is great advice though. I could just take it slow in the front yard. The side and back are fairly flat so, not as much of a concern with them.

Thanks


----------



## smurg

Khs2424 said:


> Leveling Question:
> 
> Our house sits up probably 10-12 feet from the road. That means that my front yard is a bit of a hill. Would it be a waste of time to try and level it? Just trying to level any ruts or high spots. Is the sand just going to fall down the hill when it rains? I've added a picture of the front yard to give y'all an idea.


I wouldn't scalp it too low prior to leveling. If there is still grass poking above to hold the sand, it will erode less.


----------



## DigitalCK

Here's my scenario/setup.

I'm in North Texas, and I've got bermuda grass that's about 3 years old planted from sod squares (poorly, by a budget builder, laid/planted in December). Our ground is very clay based and shale below that I believe.

Total front/rear is about 1/6 to 1/7 of an acre

It's got bumps and mounds and holes and just doesn't cut even. The mower wheels fall in and leave marks, I trip and fall walking sometimes, as it can be up to an inch or more in some places

My mower is a standard push mower, electric (Dewalt brand), and only has a single height adjustment setting (5 heights, one lever does front/rear together). I don't plan on changing this equipment out (not looking for more equipment investment if I can help it at all)

I want to level the front and rear come spring. From my reading, I believe I need to be scalping it in spring as low as I can, getting a giant pile of sand (still determining the type from my reading) and spread it out evenly with some sort of heavy flat thing (lawn leveler tool of some sort).

I also believe I shouldn't be mixing any sort of compost or other material with my sand - just use sand. I'm aware it may look weird for a bit while the grass grows through, but when it does it will be level, the soil will fill in itself somehow within the sand so it's not just grass in sand somehow?

Any tips or thoughts or things I should figure out first?


----------



## Kicker

Wait till the lawn is growing vigorously for the quickest recovery.
Use mason sand only (roughly one cubic yard per 1000 sq. ft. of lawn)
Fertilize and water, water, water after the topdress/level.
You can use a landscape rake if you're wanting to keep equipment costs to a minimum.

The soil doesn't do anything with the sand, some may make it's way into the top layer of the soil but the grass grows through the sand. The sand is what's making it level. Don't expect this to be a one time thing. It'll need to be an annual/ bi-annual thing to achieve a level surface.


----------



## DigitalCK

Just checking back on that value...

1/7 of an acre is around 6000 sqft, so 6 cubic yards.... which is about 15,000 lbs of sand... that seems pretty insane... could that possibly be correct? Or is it not as big (visually) as it seems (in my head)?

I think the other thing to note, my grass has a thick root structure that is visible above the ground, rather than a "recessed" appearance I see from others. If I raise the levels of EVERYTHING it doesn't have much room for height growth before being a bit crazy...


----------



## Gilley11

It's a lot of sand but it will disappear faster than you think. If you plan on aerating and removing cores before hand, you may even need a bit more.


----------



## Alex_18

I have 6k sqft of Bermuda im going to level soon. I do not have a reel mower that will go lower than about 1" so i plan on scalping as best and as low as best i can with my string trimmer. I will be using pump sand to do the leveling and plan on getting 8-10 yards and a bobcat to spread it then a drag mat to finish it off to its final grade. Mortar sand is $40/yard and the pump sand is $20/yard

I plan on doing this at the end of March/early April. The day length will be at 12+ hrs and the soil temps should be around 65-70 degrees. Anyone see anything wrong with this plan? Im in south Louisiana


----------



## jpos34

Has anyone forked out the money (quoted $199) for a weekend rental on a Dingo/Mini skid steer to haul the sand around the yard. Or am I just over-estimating the amount of work it will be to move 8 yards of sand. Seems like it would speed the leveling project up significantly.


----------



## Kicker

$199 for a weekend rental would be tempting, especially if you could use it to pull a drag. However, I'd be worried about what kind of damage it might do with multiple passes/turns over an area.

I moved 6 yards of sand via dump cart beginning of July (104 degrees) last year.. that was a beating.


----------



## Ware

jpos34 said:


> Has anyone forked out the money (quoted $199) for a weekend rental on a Dingo/Mini skid steer to haul the sand around the yard. Or am I just over-estimating the amount of work it will be to move 8 yards of sand. Seems like it would speed the leveling project up significantly.


I considered it. For a major/first leveling project, I think it would work really well. For lighter topdressing, I think turning might cause more damage than I would want.


----------



## ENC_Lawn

Ware said:


> jpos34 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone forked out the money (quoted $199) for a weekend rental on a Dingo/Mini skid steer to haul the sand around the yard. Or am I just over-estimating the amount of work it will be to move 8 yards of sand. Seems like it would speed the leveling project up significantly.
> 
> 
> 
> I considered it. For a major/first leveling project, I think it would work really well. For lighter topdressing, I think turning might cause more damage than I would want.
Click to expand...

Ware...I know they say leveling is a long term plan that one does a couple of times during the season.

But is safe to say you get to a point where you lawn is level enough and you do not have to keep leveling year after year?

For example looking at your lawn...it looks like its very level.

Do you still have to level year after year once you get to that point?

Thanks


----------



## Ware

ENC_Lawn said:


> Ware...I know they say leveling is a long term plan that one does a couple of times during the season.
> 
> But is safe to say you get to a point where you lawn is level enough and you do not have to keep leveling year after year?
> 
> For example looking at your lawn...it looks like its very level.
> 
> Do you still have to level year after year once you get to that point?
> 
> Thanks


It lasts for a while, but research by an Austrian and a German physicist taught us that everything in nature tends to flow from order toward disorder - it requires focused energy to get it back in order. This "Theory of Entropy" basically says that ordered states are infinitely improbable, so pretty much every system in the universe will naturally be found in either the maximum state of disorder, or moving towards it - like all my daughters' toys in the house. 

That said, I would say it's not a once a done thing. I can definitely tell my lawn is not as smooth as it was after the last time I leveled. It's not back to like it was before I leveled the first time, but it will eventually bother me enough that I will do some additional leveling. :thumbup:


----------



## Alex_18

jpos34 said:


> Has anyone forked out the money (quoted $199) for a weekend rental on a Dingo/Mini skid steer to haul the sand around the yard. Or am I just over-estimating the amount of work it will be to move 8 yards of sand. Seems like it would speed the leveling project up significantly.


That is exactly what i plan on doing in a couple weeks. i was advised not to use anything with skids because it will destroy your grass while turning. i plan on using a bobcat with wheels to move the 8-10 yards of sand around my yard. $180 for the weekend in my area. almost seems too good to pass up place sand around the yard in a few hours then drag the rest of the weekend. should save a ton of time and effort

btw GO GATORS


----------



## ENC_Lawn

Ware said:


> ENC_Lawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ware...I know they say leveling is a long term plan that one does a couple of times during the season.
> 
> But is safe to say you get to a point where you lawn is level enough and you do not have to keep leveling year after year?
> 
> For example looking at your lawn...it looks like its very level.
> 
> Do you still have to level year after year once you get to that point?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> It lasts for a while, but research by an Austrian and a German physicist taught us that everything in nature tends to flow from order toward disorder - it requires focused energy to get it back in order. This "Theory of Entropy" basically says that ordered states are infinitely improbable, so pretty much every system in the universe will naturally be found in either the maximum state of disorder, or moving towards it - like all my daughters' toys in the house.
> 
> That said, I would say it's not a once a done thing. I can definitely tell my lawn is not as smooth as it was after the last time I leveled. It's not back to like it was before I leveled the first time, but it will eventually bother me enough that I will do some additional leveling. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

 :thumbup:


----------



## jpos34

Alex_18 said:


> jpos34 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone forked out the money (quoted $199) for a weekend rental on a Dingo/Mini skid steer to haul the sand around the yard. Or am I just over-estimating the amount of work it will be to move 8 yards of sand. Seems like it would speed the leveling project up significantly.
> 
> 
> 
> That is exactly what i plan on doing in a couple weeks. i was advised not to use anything with skids because it will destroy your grass while turning. i plan on using a bobcat with wheels to move the 8-10 yards of sand around my yard. $180 for the weekend in my area. almost seems too good to pass up place sand around the yard in a few hours then drag the rest of the weekend. should save a ton of time and effort
> 
> btw GO GATORS
Click to expand...

So you're saying that wheels does less damage than skids. Ive always heard the opposite of this. Looking for clarification because the one they offer has the skids. I have a bobcat with wheels but it always does so much damage to the ground with any kind of work I do. I also have a 4 wheeler that i plan on dragging the drag with so that shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Mister Bill

jpos34 said:


> Alex_18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jpos34 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone forked out the money (quoted $199) for a weekend rental on a Dingo/Mini skid steer to haul the sand around the yard. Or am I just over-estimating the amount of work it will be to move 8 yards of sand. Seems like it would speed the leveling project up significantly.
> 
> 
> 
> That is exactly what i plan on doing in a couple weeks. i was advised not to use anything with skids because it will destroy your grass while turning. i plan on using a bobcat with wheels to move the 8-10 yards of sand around my yard. $180 for the weekend in my area. almost seems too good to pass up place sand around the yard in a few hours then drag the rest of the weekend. should save a ton of time and effort
> 
> btw GO GATORS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you're saying that wheels does less damage than skids. Ive always heard the opposite of this. Looking for clarification because the one they offer has the skids. I have a bobcat with wheels but it always does so much damage to the ground with any kind of work I do. I also have a 4 wheeler that i plan on dragging the drag with so that shouldn't be a problem.
Click to expand...

I have owned and operated heavy machinery for more hours than I care to remember. Both the tired and the tracked skid steers will tear up the turf when you turn hard, no way around it without laying down mats. Long gentle turns are less severe and doable if you have the room, damage from tires will be less severe than tracks. Straight back and forth the tires will rut deeper than the tracks, as tracks exert less ground pressure per square inch than tires by half or more. I'm guessing that is what you were thinking about tracks being better. Tracks are primarily for increased traction and for muddy/slick conditions because of the lower ground pressure; tires do very well on dry soil. I can think of no logical reason to choose tracks over tires for a lawn leveling project.

Unless you are allergic to manual labor, I personally would wheelbarrow it. Eight yards is nothing over a couple days for a able bodied man assuming the distance isn't prohibitive and you have a contractor grade wheelbarrow. If you can't move 1 yd. every two hours you may want to turn in your man card. :lol: For those who are allergic to manual labor, the ATV or a garden tractor pulling a dump cart would be my second choice. This leaves you with how to load the wagon at the staging area, either by shovel or rent a mini backhoe/loader. The dingos are crude little fella's. If you have never used one, the chance of doing more harm than good during the learning curve is a real possibility. But that is true of almost everything powered. You know your capabilities more than I. Hope this helps.


----------



## Alex_18

It not about being allergic to manual labor for me, i do manual labor for a living. For me, its about being efficient with my time. I have 2 kids that need my attention and i dont have 3-4 days to do this project. So with the help of the bobcat and a 4 wheeler ill get it done in a weekend.

I plan on bringing one bucket full at a time straight to the site from the road, then straight back to the road in the same path made going in, taking the shortest route possible. I dont plan on doing this project with wet sand so hopefully the ground will be dry and ruts wont be much of a factor

I know you meant no harm by your comments, we just dont all have the same situations that may work for you


----------



## Hadendm

jpos34 said:


> Has anyone forked out the money (quoted $199) for a weekend rental on a Dingo/Mini skid steer to haul the sand around the yard. Or am I just over-estimating the amount of work it will be to move 8 yards of sand. Seems like it would speed the leveling project up significantly.


@jpos34 That is exactly what I did last summer. Rented a Dingo for about $200 for the weekend. Mine had skids. I was able to distribute 8 yds of sand in just a couple hours. It did tear up my yard in a few areas that had tighter turns or frequent trips back and forth.

I did not use the dingo to spread the sand, I did that by hand and by pulling a welded leveler. So any of the areas that were torn up by the dingo got a nice level with the sand and recovered very nicely!

I would highly recommend the dingo, let me know if you have any other questions.


----------



## Redtwin

My wife and kids are going to visit family this weekend through next week for spring break so I will be hitting the next leveling project using the big gorilla cart and a riding mower.


----------



## Two9tene

Mister Bill said:


> jpos34 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alex_18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is exactly what i plan on doing in a couple weeks. i was advised not to use anything with skids because it will destroy your grass while turning. i plan on using a bobcat with wheels to move the 8-10 yards of sand around my yard. $180 for the weekend in my area. almost seems too good to pass up place sand around the yard in a few hours then drag the rest of the weekend. should save a ton of time and effort
> 
> btw GO GATORS
> 
> 
> 
> So you're saying that wheels does less damage than skids. Ive always heard the opposite of this. Looking for clarification because the one they offer has the skids. I have a bobcat with wheels but it always does so much damage to the ground with any kind of work I do. I also have a 4 wheeler that i plan on dragging the drag with so that shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have owned and operated heavy machinery for more hours than I care to remember. Both the tired and the tracked skid steers will tear up the turf when you turn hard, no way around it without laying down mats. Long gentle turns are less severe and doable if you have the room, damage from tires will be less severe than tracks. Straight back and forth the tires will rut deeper than the tracks, as tracks exert less ground pressure per square inch than tires by half or more. I'm guessing that is what you were thinking about tracks being better. Tracks are primarily for increased traction and for muddy/slick conditions because of the lower ground pressure; tires do very well on dry soil. I can think of no logical reason to choose tracks over tires for a lawn leveling project.
> 
> Unless you are allergic to manual labor, I personally would wheelbarrow it. Eight yards is nothing over a couple days for a able bodied man assuming the distance isn't prohibitive and you have a contractor grade wheelbarrow. If you can't move 1 yd. every two hours you may want to turn in your man card. :lol: For those who are allergic to manual labor, the ATV or a garden tractor pulling a dump cart would be my second choice. This leaves you with how to load the wagon at the staging area, either by shovel or rent a mini backhoe/loader. The dingos are crude little fella's. If you have never used one, the chance of doing more harm than good during the learning curve is a real possibility. But that is true of almost everything powered. You know your capabilities more than I. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Two years ago I moved nearly 12 yards in a day, by myself with a shovel and cheap ol wheel barrel!


----------



## ctrav

Two years ago I moved nearly 12 yards in a day, by myself with a shovel and cheap ol wheel barrel!
[/quote]

No way...I just can't believe it...are you sure it was 12 yards...
Now if you want to swing by I can videotape and we can show the lawn care world 🤓


----------



## Mister Bill

Alex_18 said:


> It not about being allergic to manual labor for me, i do manual labor for a living. For me, its about being efficient with my time. I have 2 kids that need my attention and i dont have 3-4 days to do this project. So with the help of the bobcat and a 4 wheeler ill get it done in a weekend.
> 
> I plan on bringing one bucket full at a time straight to the site from the road, then straight back to the road in the same path made going in, taking the shortest route possible. I dont plan on doing this project with wet sand so hopefully the ground will be dry and ruts wont be much of a factor
> 
> I know you meant no harm by your comments, we just dont all have the same situations that may work for you


I meant no offense at all. You asked a question, I answered. Nothing more intended.


----------



## Mister Bill

ctrav said:


> Two years ago I moved nearly 12 yards in a day, by myself with a shovel and cheap ol wheel barrel!


No way...I just can't believe it...are you sure it was 12 yards...
Now if you want to swing by I can videotape and we can show the lawn care world 🤓
[/quote]
:lol: Not sure if ctrav is being serious or lightening the mood, but I can see a young physically fit man moving that much in a day. Not sure about using a cheap wheelbarrow though. :lol:

From my own personal experience, I know I could move 8 yards of sand in 5-6 hours if the distance isn't too great with a contractor wheelbarrow, and I am 66 years old. That ain't no step for a stepper.


----------



## cldrunner

Last year I did 10 yards of sand. It took 2.5 hours to move into place with a lawn tractor and gorilla cart. It was 60 plus loads. I had the help of three teenagers to shovel sand in the cart and pull the handle to dump so I could stay on the cart. Then it took me about 6-7 hours to spread it out and level by myself. To me the trick is spreading it out when you dump. Try to move forward when dumping to spread it out. I covered about 8000 sq. ft. The new gorilla dumping cart is awesome. I had the truck dump in two places to make it a little easier.

If I could have rented the steer and stayed on concrete I would think about that. I would not dare go on my grass with a bobcat.


----------



## Mister Bill

cldrunner said:


> Last year I did 10 yards of sand. It took 2.5 hours to move into place with a lawn tractor and gorilla cart. It was 60 plus loads. I had the help of three teenagers to shovel sand in the cart and pull the handle to dump so I could stay on the cart. Then it took me about 6-7 hours to spread it out and level by myself. To me the trick is spreading it out when you dump. Try to move forward when dumping to spread it out. I covered about 8000 sq. ft. The new gorilla dumping cart is awesome. I had the truck dump in two places to make it a little easier.
> 
> If I could have rented the steer and stayed on concrete I would think about that. I would not dare go on my grass with a bobcat.


A plan well executed and a job well done. You did good, and kudos to those teenagers.

If I may add, a bucket on any machine can and will scar concrete/asphalt which will last forever. A skilled operator can minimize and eliminate any damage by keeping the bucket level and going into the pile slightly above the surface using the sand as a cushion under the bucket, but it takes practice do be able to that successfully. Nonetheless, I'm not seeing the time savings when travel time in picking up and returning a machine is factored in, as well as repairing damage that will no doubt occur. But then again, creating reasons to play with big boy toys is never a bad thing. :lol:

But I digress, I do believe there is a reason you will never see a reputable pro turf leveling company using skid steers on the turf they are about to level. With that said, I'm going to go sit in the corner before I offend anyone else. :dunno:


----------



## cldrunner

> A plan well executed and a job well done. You did good, and kudos to those teenagers.
> 
> If I may add, a bucket on any machine can and will scar concrete/asphalt which will last forever. A skilled operator can minimize and eliminate any damage by keeping the bucket level and going into the pile slightly above the surface using the sand as a cushion under the bucket, but it takes practice do be able to that successfully. Nonetheless, I'm not seeing the time savings when travel time in picking up and returning a machine is factored in, as well as repairing damage that will no doubt occur. But then again, creating reasons to play with big boy toys is never a bad thing. :lol:
> 
> But I digress, I do believe there is a reason you will never see a reputable pro turf leveling company using skid steers on the turf they are about to level. With that said, I'm going to go sit in the corner before I offend anyone else. :dunno:


You are exactly right. If and when I do it again I would still use my Gorilla Cart and lawn tractor. It would take me a few few hours to pickup and drop off skid steer and then time to learn how to use. The possible damage is not worth the risk.

It takes two teenagers about 45 sec to fill dump cart and about 1 min for the dump. Of course I had to give them a few water breaks and feed them the best hamburger in town for lunch.


----------



## Alex_18

@Mister Bill that is a good point and something that i never thought of. Wouldn't want to scar my driveway where the sand is getting dumped. I have a rental place 0.9 miles from my house so i could pick it up one the way home from work on Friday and drop it off on the way Monday so its very convenient for me. I cant speak for everyone though

@cldrunner you mind sending those teenagers over here in a few weeks?


----------



## Two9tene

ctrav said:


> Two years ago I moved nearly 12 yards in a day, by myself with a shovel and cheap ol wheel barrel!


No way...I just can't believe it...are you sure it was 12 yards...
Now if you want to swing by I can videotape and we can show the lawn care world 🤓
[/quote]



Two9tene said:


> So just to catch up on the journal: Monday morning I woke up early and did some prep for the Great Big Level of 18, hence forth called GBL18, just marked off some low spots I wanted to focus on:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortly after the sand/soil mix arrived!
> 
> 
> 
> And.... I went straight into the back breaking work!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After I got all the piles out on both lawns I started to knock them down and realized quickly that I had bit off more than I can chew!
> 
> 
> 
> It was so much work that my absolutely beautiful wife even came out to assist me with the project, mind you this is at about 9pm just around sunset here in Good o'le Oklahoma!
> 
> 
> 
> This next picture is when I realized that I had place WAY to many piles on the main lawn and other areas as well! We knocked down the piles from the south end up to the north end and wound up pushing the excess onto the street. I pretty much ran out of light after that and worked through the night till almost 11pm pushing the excess off. Once I pushed all the excess off I had to call it a night!
> 
> 
> 
> More to follow on the subsequent days... stay tuned out there if your "watching" aka reading! Lol


Here you go bud! Lmao🤣😂🤙🏼


----------



## ctrav

Two9tene said:


> ctrav said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two years ago I moved nearly 12 yards in a day, by myself with a shovel and cheap ol wheel barrel!
> 
> 
> 
> No way...I just can't believe it...are you sure it was 12 yards...
> Now if you want to swing by I can videotape and we can show the lawn care world 🤓
Click to expand...




Two9tene said:


> So just to catch up on the journal: Monday morning I woke up early and did some prep for the Great Big Level of 18, hence forth called GBL18, just marked off some low spots I wanted to focus on:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortly after the sand/soil mix arrived!
> 
> 
> 
> And.... I went straight into the back breaking work!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After I got all the piles out on both lawns I started to knock them down and realized quickly that I had bit off more than I can chew!
> 
> 
> 
> It was so much work that my absolutely beautiful wife even came out to assist me with the project, mind you this is at about 9pm just around sunset here in Good o'le Oklahoma!
> 
> 
> 
> This next picture is when I realized that I had place WAY to many piles on the main lawn and other areas as well! We knocked down the piles from the south end up to the north end and wound up pushing the excess onto the street. I pretty much ran out of light after that and worked through the night till almost 11pm pushing the excess off. Once I pushed all the excess off I had to call it a night!
> 
> 
> 
> More to follow on the subsequent days... stay tuned out there if your "watching" aka reading! Lol


Here you go bud! Lmao🤣😂🤙🏼
[/quote]

I spoke in jest as I never doubted you for a moment...now swing on over 🤣🤣


----------



## Two9tene

ctrav said:


> Two9tene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ctrav said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two years ago I moved nearly 12 yards in a day, by myself with a shovel and cheap ol wheel barrel!
> 
> 
> 
> No way...I just can't believe it...are you sure it was 12 yards...
> Now if you want to swing by I can videotape and we can show the lawn care world 🤓
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two9tene said:
> 
> 
> 
> So just to catch up on the journal: Monday morning I woke up early and did some prep for the Great Big Level of 18, hence forth called GBL18, just marked off some low spots I wanted to focus on:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortly after the sand/soil mix arrived!
> 
> 
> 
> And.... I went straight into the back breaking work!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After I got all the piles out on both lawns I started to knock them down and realized quickly that I had bit off more than I can chew!
> 
> 
> 
> It was so much work that my absolutely beautiful wife even came out to assist me with the project, mind you this is at about 9pm just around sunset here in Good o'le Oklahoma!
> 
> 
> 
> This next picture is when I realized that I had place WAY to many piles on the main lawn and other areas as well! We knocked down the piles from the south end up to the north end and wound up pushing the excess onto the street. I pretty much ran out of light after that and worked through the night till almost 11pm pushing the excess off. Once I pushed all the excess off I had to call it a night!
> 
> 
> 
> More to follow on the subsequent days... stay tuned out there if your "watching" aka reading! Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here you go bud! Lmao🤣😂🤙🏼
Click to expand...

I spoke in jest as I never doubted you for a moment...now swing on over 🤣🤣
[/quote]

I figured as much brother! Lmao I just wanted to make sure no "guests", "bots" or members for that matter underestimate my will and conviction for lawn care!!!! Lmao 🤣💯


----------



## Ren

Sorry if this was addressed and i missed it, should i not spray tnex until after i do my leveling renovation in april or may?


----------



## Greendoc

Ren said:


> Sorry if this was addressed and i missed it, should i not spray tnex until after i do my leveling renovation in april or may?


Hold the TNex until you are done leveling and the grass is growing back.


----------



## andyl9063

Do you guys recommend this for a new lawn? Just lay down sod for about 2 weeks so it's still getting established. I'm going to need to level out this lawn big time. 
I have almost 12,000 sq ft so it's going to be a lot of work. I'm willing to rent machines to help with this.
I'm leaning towards waiting it out this year to see how it is and tackling this next year.

Picture below was after heavy rainfalls. Ignore the pond area, that is getting raise and slope to the back for a garden bed.


----------



## Redtwin

21 yards of pure enjoyment just got delivered. To add to the fun, the dump truck driver took out my cable and electricity when he pulled forward with the bucket still up. 😬

Power and cable company came out fast and got it all out back together. The sand company is sending out an electrician to check my mast for damage.


----------



## twolf

andyl9063 said:


> Do you guys recommend this for a new lawn? Just lay down sod for about 2 weeks so it's still getting established. I'm going to need to level out this lawn big time.
> I have almost 12,000 sq ft so it's going to be a lot of work. I'm willing to rent machines to help with this.
> I'm leaning towards waiting it out this year to see how it is and tackling this next year.
> 
> Picture below was after heavy rainfalls. Ignore the pond area, that is getting raise and slope to the back for a garden bed.


You need to wait till the sod roots properly. Also, the soil will settle differently in different places. So, I would wait year or two before doing any leveling.


----------



## Mister Bill

andyl9063 said:


> Do you guys recommend this for a new lawn? Just lay down sod for about 2 weeks so it's still getting established. I'm going to need to level out this lawn big time.
> I have almost 12,000 sq ft so it's going to be a lot of work. I'm willing to rent machines to help with this.
> I'm leaning towards waiting it out this year to see how it is and tackling this next year.
> 
> Picture below was after heavy rainfalls. Ignore the pond area, that is getting raise and slope to the back for a garden bed.


Heavy rains or not, a properly graded yard will not hold water as shown in the image. Photos can be deceiving, but it appears the surrounding elevation is higher than your property, which is why the water is pooling as it is. Piling enough sand onto the yard to raise the low areas, whether it is this year or next, will only compound the problem as the water will just flow down through the sand like a sieve and pool below the sod line creating a perfect environment for root rot and fungus. Regrading the yard to correct the lack of runoff should have been done prior to laying sod. I'm sure this isn't what you are wanting to hear, but it is what I am seeing from the photo.


----------



## andyl9063

Well that was not what I wanted to hear. I'm going to let it grow and see how the drainage is. 
That was my fear and the grading job that was done suck.


----------



## Mister Bill

andyl9063 said:


> Well that was not what I wanted to hear. I'm going to let it grow and see how the drainage is.
> That was my fear and the grading job that was done suck.


Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it is what it is. The grass can root in and grow, but that will not change the drainage, this I can assure you. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away regardless of how it came about or why it exists. The good news is it is repairable, but you probably won't like the solution either. 

Good luck and stay safe.


----------



## andyl9063

Mister Bill said:


> andyl9063 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was not what I wanted to hear. I'm going to let it grow and see how the drainage is.
> That was my fear and the grading job that was done suck.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it is what it is. The grass can root in and grow, but that will not change the drainage, this I can assure you. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away regardless of how it came about or why it exists. The good news is it is repairable, but you probably won't like the solution either.
> 
> Good luck and stay safe.
Click to expand...

How would you repair this? I picture you ripping it all up and regrading and putting down new sod.

Can I slowly grade certain areas at a time with sand and top soil? Let the sod grow through that?

As you can see, I am a total newbie when it comes lawn, let alone this grading since I sub it out.


----------



## Mister Bill

andyl9063 said:


> Mister Bill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> andyl9063 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was not what I wanted to hear. I'm going to let it grow and see how the drainage is.
> That was my fear and the grading job that was done suck.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it is what it is. The grass can root in and grow, but that will not change the drainage, this I can assure you. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away regardless of how it came about or why it exists. The good news is it is repairable, but you probably won't like the solution either.
> 
> Good luck and stay safe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How would you repair this? I picture you ripping it all up and regrading and putting down new sod.
> 
> Can I slowly grade certain areas at a time with sand and top soil? Let the sod grow through that?
> 
> As you can see, I am a total newbie when it comes lawn, let alone this grading since I sub it out.
Click to expand...

Me personally, I would gently pull up the sod you have laid before it roots any further, stack it up out of the way, have the yard regraded, and re lay the sod. As for what grading will entail, it is difficult to evaluate just from the photo alone. In summary, the lowest point of your surrounding property line is where you need to focus on getting the water to.

As for bringing in fill over time and building up the low areas, that would be a feasible solution if there is an already existing natural grade beyond the scope of the picture for the displaced water to flow into and away from the property. If the current grading beyond the backyard allows for this, then build up the low areas with good old Georgia red clay in 2" lifts and allow the turf to grow up through creating new a root structure as you said. The underlying smothered turf will then decompose turning your clay into topsoil over time. This would be a multi year repair, and again, only doable if there is already adequate slope in place beyond the areas that are being raised. Only after the drainage issue is corrected would I sand. Sanding is for leveling out minor dips and mainly done to flatten out a yard, not to reroute water.

The first option will most likely be the least expensive long term, quickest to do, and reap the best results. The second option is only doable if the displaced water has somewhere to go, and preferably, not your house foundation. :lol:

Clear as mud? :lol:


----------



## WDE46

andyl9063 said:


> Do you guys recommend this for a new lawn? Just lay down sod for about 2 weeks so it's still getting established. I'm going to need to level out this lawn big time.
> I have almost 12,000 sq ft so it's going to be a lot of work. I'm willing to rent machines to help with this.
> I'm leaning towards waiting it out this year to see how it is and tackling this next year.
> 
> Picture below was after heavy rainfalls. Ignore the pond area, that is getting raise and slope to the back for a garden bed.


You've got bigger problems than a level lawn. I'm not expert, but I would think raising that dirt area will simply flood your yard more. Right now some water from the yard flows out into that area. If you raise it, it'll get stuck in the yard. I'd regrade the whole thing because those massive puddles will never go away.


----------



## jpos34

Planning for my level job to come in the near future. House was built last year and grade not brought up high enough for grass to be even with edges of concrete. Here are a few pictures for reference. When I level do I just basically run my drag across the concrete and grass at same time in order to get up to same level as concrete. Does it look like I have too much of drop off from concrete where the grass won't grow back through the sand?


----------



## manthatsnice

jpos34 said:


> Planning for my level job to come in the near future. House was built last year and grade not brought up high enough for grass to be even with edges of concrete. Here are a few pictures for reference. When I level do I just basically run my drag across the concrete and grass at same time in order to get up to same level as concrete. Does it look like I have too much of drop off from concrete where the grass won't grow back through the sand?


I would consider cutting the grass out in the area of your concrete, putting sand down, then putting the grass back down on top of the sand. I've done that in several problem areas. More work up front but it looks great in no time. The only sand you'll have on the surface is maybe in the seams and if you have to feather in the area you cut out.


----------



## CenlaLowell

The drag mat I've used last year left a lot to be desired. Basically the mat floats with the lawn so it can't possibly level bad spot correctly. This is the one I have now

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014SY8B5E/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_dKgHEb4K68SKJ

My thinking is if I got something like @wardconnor had it my be better. I'm also wondering if it would be okay to drag something like over st Augustine?





I would get it built to 3x3 or 5x5

Chime in.....


----------



## Hadendm

CenlaLowell said:


> The drag mat I've used last year left a lot to be desired. Basically the mat floats with the lawn so it can't possibly level bad spot correctly. This is the one I have now
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014SY8B5E/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_dKgHEb4K68SKJ
> 
> My thinking is if I got something like @wardconnor had it my be better. I'm also wondering if it would be okay to drag something like over st Augustine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would get it built to 3x3 or 5x5
> 
> Chime in.....


I was also inspired by @wardconnor I bought some metal and had a friend weld up my level rake for me. Cost less than $75. I can either push/pull by hand or hook it up to the lawn tractor and pull it. It's all steel so it's nice and heavy.


----------



## Kicker

CenlaLowell said:


> The drag mat I've used last year left a lot to be desired. Basically the mat floats with the lawn so it can't possibly level bad spot correctly. This is the one I have now
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014SY8B5E/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_dKgHEb4K68SKJ
> 
> My thinking is if I got something like @wardconnor had it my be better. I'm also wondering if it would be okay to drag something like over st Augustine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would get it built to 3x3 or 5x5
> 
> Chime in.....


I've heard of people that have the drag mat you got on amazon of modifying it so that it stays more rigid.

The solid metal bar where the rope attaches was moved 90 degress to one side or the other and afixed back to the drag mat. Doing that makes it so that the links don't articulate up/down in the direction you'll be pulling it. I think i saw a thread on here or maybe just a post in this thread about doing that.


----------



## Redtwin

Kicker said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> The drag mat I've used last year left a lot to be desired. Basically the mat floats with the lawn so it can't possibly level bad spot correctly. This is the one I have now
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014SY8B5E/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_dKgHEb4K68SKJ
> 
> My thinking is if I got something like @wardconnor had it my be better. I'm also wondering if it would be okay to drag something like over st Augustine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would get it built to 3x3 or 5x5
> 
> Chime in.....
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard of people that have the drag mat you got on amazon of modifying it so that it stays more rigid.
> 
> The solid metal bar where the rope attaches was moved 90 degress to one side or the other and afixed back to the drag mat. Doing that makes it so that the links don't articulate up/down in the direction you'll be pulling it. I think i saw a thread on here or maybe just a post in this thread about doing that.
Click to expand...

I had the same problem with that exact drag mat. It worked great at getting the sand down into the turf but did very little as far as leveling.


----------



## CenlaLowell

Kicker said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> The drag mat I've used last year left a lot to be desired. Basically the mat floats with the lawn so it can't possibly level bad spot correctly. This is the one I have now
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014SY8B5E/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_dKgHEb4K68SKJ
> 
> My thinking is if I got something like @wardconnor had it my be better. I'm also wondering if it would be okay to drag something like over st Augustine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would get it built to 3x3 or 5x5
> 
> Chime in.....
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard of people that have the drag mat you got on amazon of modifying it so that it stays more rigid.
> 
> The solid metal bar where the rope attaches was moved 90 degress to one side or the other and afixed back to the drag mat. Doing that makes it so that the links don't articulate up/down in the direction you'll be pulling it. I think i saw a thread on here or maybe just a post in this thread about doing that.
Click to expand...

Do you have a picture or something because I'm lost about this mod??


----------



## CenlaLowell

Redtwin said:


> Kicker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> The drag mat I've used last year left a lot to be desired. Basically the mat floats with the lawn so it can't possibly level bad spot correctly. This is the one I have now
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014SY8B5E/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_dKgHEb4K68SKJ
> 
> My thinking is if I got something like @wardconnor had it my be better. I'm also wondering if it would be okay to drag something like over st Augustine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would get it built to 3x3 or 5x5
> 
> Chime in.....
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard of people that have the drag mat you got on amazon of modifying it so that it stays more rigid.
> 
> The solid metal bar where the rope attaches was moved 90 degress to one side or the other and afixed back to the drag mat. Doing that makes it so that the links don't articulate up/down in the direction you'll be pulling it. I think i saw a thread on here or maybe just a post in this thread about doing that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I had the same problem with that exact drag mat. It worked great at getting the sand down into the turf but did very little as far as leveling.
Click to expand...

I'm scared of the st Augustine getting torn up using Connor idea. What do you think???


----------



## Kicker

CenlaLowell said:


> Kicker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> The drag mat I've used last year left a lot to be desired. Basically the mat floats with the lawn so it can't possibly level bad spot correctly. This is the one I have now
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014SY8B5E/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_dKgHEb4K68SKJ
> 
> My thinking is if I got something like @wardconnor had it my be better. I'm also wondering if it would be okay to drag something like over st Augustine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would get it built to 3x3 or 5x5
> 
> Chime in.....
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard of people that have the drag mat you got on amazon of modifying it so that it stays more rigid.
> 
> The solid metal bar where the rope attaches was moved 90 degress to one side or the other and afixed back to the drag mat. Doing that makes it so that the links don't articulate up/down in the direction you'll be pulling it. I think i saw a thread on here or maybe just a post in this thread about doing that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have a picture or something because I'm lost about this mod??
Click to expand...

@Ware can you help me out here. I seem to remember you had a mspaint description/drawing of this exact mod.

@CenlaLowell essentially, you're removing the solid bar from the front of the drag mat. Re-attaching it to one of the sides.

see the image for a crappy description.


----------



## Ware

Yep, that's it @Kicker The mat is more rigid on that axis (it doesn't roll up), so I think it would be less likely to flex down into dips and scrape the sand out - if that makes sense. I haven't done it myself though. I have folded the back of the mat up to the front a couple times to give it more downforce per square inch, and it also seemed to flex less.


----------



## CenlaLowell

Kicker said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kicker said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard of people that have the drag mat you got on amazon of modifying it so that it stays more rigid.
> 
> The solid metal bar where the rope attaches was moved 90 degress to one side or the other and afixed back to the drag mat. Doing that makes it so that the links don't articulate up/down in the direction you'll be pulling it. I think i saw a thread on here or maybe just a post in this thread about doing that.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a picture or something because I'm lost about this mod??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @Ware can you help me out here. I seem to remember you had a mspaint description/drawing of this exact mod.
> 
> @CenlaLowell essentially, you're removing the solid bar from the front of the drag mat. Re-attaching it to one of the sides.
> 
> see the image for a crappy description.
Click to expand...

Thanks, another question

What difference does that make moving it from one side to another??? It doesn't look hard to move at all I'm just curious.



Next question if I was to put pvc pipe filled with sand underneath tied with zip ties would this be ideal

Like this


----------



## CenlaLowell

Ware said:


> Yep, that's it @Kicker The mat is more rigid on that axis (it doesn't roll up), so I think it would be less likely to flex down into dips and scrape the sand out - if that makes sense. I haven't done it myself though. I have folded the back of the mat up to the front a couple times to give it more downforce per square inch, and it also seemed to flex less.


I will try that this leveling season. I also found a welder in my area that will build a smaller version of connorward mat, but I haven't got a price on it yet. I'm trying to use this thing if I can without spending more money on another.

Thanks @Ware and @Kicker


----------



## CenlaLowell

Here's other idea I forgot about. He turned his 90 degrees as well

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=276


----------



## Kicker

the reason moving it would work a little better is becuase all the links articulate only the original direction they're mounted.

think of a bicycle chain. If you hold the bicycle chain in the orientation of it being mounted on a bicycle you can move it up and down as freely as you want because the links articulate in that direction. If you turn it 90 degrees to where it's laying flat it'll move like a sidewinder snake, but stays more rigid/level in reference to being parallel with the ground.

moving the bar 90 degrees to the side of the mat just means the mat stays more flat when it transverses over a low spot or a dip instead of following the contour of the ground.


----------



## Kicker

CenlaLowell said:


> Here's other idea I forgot about. He turned his 90 degrees as well
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=276


that's the original post I was talking about and where i remembered this mod.


----------



## DuncanMcDonuts

@CenlaLowell I just modded my mat, same one as yours, by loosening the nuts from the 4 bolts and moving the mat 90' from the handle side. It is much more rigid now with barely any flex. I think it'll work much better to level this way.


----------



## thegrassisgreener

Made a video of my lawn leveling project this week. 
https://youtu.be/0M8xmvlFDvE


----------



## Buster

Has anyone done a 'small scale' level? What I mean is simply targeting old ruts or irrigation settling. Not the whole lawn.

We just moved in and I've got a massive lawn. It's pretty level, except for some isolated ruts and depressions where irrigation went in years ago. I'm thinking of just filling those ruts with 50/50 mix and then assessing.


----------



## MrMeaner

thegrassisgreener said:


> Made a video of my lawn leveling project this week.


Very nice!! I wish only had 3000 Sq Ft to do...mines closer to 30K...a lot of work for my old ***!! :lol:


----------



## cutigers08

Going after my yard this coming weekend. my neighbor borrowed the drag mat from the local rec department and it's a beast. 6' wide and pretty heavy but should make pretty quick work of things.


----------



## Two9tene

cutigers08 said:


> Going after my yard this ci.ing weekend. my neighbor borrowed the drag mat from the local rec department and it's a beast. 6' wide and pretty heavy but should make pretty quick work of things.


Nice wish I had one of those! Well I will one day! Lol just gotta sneak it past the wife and the wallet somehow!


----------



## cutigers08

Two9tene said:


> cutigers08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Going after my yard this ci.ing weekend. my neighbor borrowed the drag mat from the local rec department and it's a beast. 6' wide and pretty heavy but should make pretty quick work of things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice wish I had one of those! Well I will one day! Lol just gotta sneak it past the wife and the wallet somehow!
Click to expand...

My neighbor dropped it off while I was snoozing on the couch. I was abruptly awaken when the wife saw it and demanded to know what it was and why it was in the driveway. LOL. She will be glad it showed up once we get underway!


----------



## CenlaLowell

Okay @Ware @Kicker I appreciate that mod for sure. When I moved the frame it definitely got stiff. So stiff that it can stand up


----------



## Redtwin

CenlaLowell said:


> Okay @Ware @Kicker I appreciate that mod for sure. When I moved the frame it definitely got stiff. So stiff that it can stand up


Oh man! I'm definitely going to do that to my drag mat. Let me know how it does once you throw the sand down.


----------



## CenlaLowell

Redtwin said:


> CenlaLowell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay @Ware @Kicker I appreciate that mod for sure. When I moved the frame it definitely got stiff. So stiff that it can stand up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man! I'm definitely going to do that to my drag mat. Let me know how it does once you throw the sand down.
Click to expand...

Will do. I'm sanding this month I believe, but this time I'm looking for Mason sand instead of river sand like I been getting.


----------



## Phazed

I spent a couple hours going through all the posts on this thread - some of you guys have amazing lawns. Mine, not so much. So I'll describe what I've got and look for some advice.
The lawn is a little over 30,000 sqft, originally Bermuda grass. For (at least) 3 years before we bought it, pretty much *nothing *was done to it other than running the (lake fed) sprinkler system and having the neighbor cut it every few weeks. It's now over 50% weeds (lots of crabgrass, clover and other stuff) and extremely uneven (with some deep holes in places). I've managed to cut it as low as 3" in most places and 2.5" is the absolute lowest I can go on the flattest sections without severe scalping so I need to level the lawn.
My mower is a 42" John Deer Z225 (see first pic). I added a mulching cover and Oregon mulching blades this year so that I don't pick up the clippings anymore.
I did put down some Bayer Season-Long Weed Control early in the season and have been hand spraying with 2,4-D to go after some of the weeds but I don't think I'm winning the battle. Also I put down a few bags of Milorganite (all I could get early in the season) in one area and that definitely helped both the grass (and the weeds) grow.
I figured to pick up a Fimco ATV-20-2-QR sprayer and mount it on my lawn cart (shown in first pic) to help me put down more 2,4D and Talstar (for the fire ants). 
Not sure what size drag mat that lawn mower could easily pull (thinking the 4.5 x 5' one) but I'd get one of those and a Gorilla Cart to help move sand around as well.
Located on Lake Greenwood in South Carolina and have not located a good source for Masonry sand (yet). I'm also unclear on how much I should order initially so that I don't get totally overwhelmed.

Edit: updated with some pics of the lawn.

Suggestions on where/how I should start would be welcome. I realize that this is likely a multi-year project.



Pic of the grass showing crabgrass and some of the unevenness


Holes like this scattered around the lawn


Example of moderate weed takeover


----------



## Meatpopsickle

Hey guys. First post here on the forum. Began visiting about 2 years ago when I started maintaining about 900sqft of Tifgrand. I have been following lawn renos/leveling pretty regularly. I'm about to start tackling a leveling project as we are entering growing season here in Phoenix. Plan to aerate and level in the next few weeks. Have seen a bunch of before and after a on TLF and they are incredible. Like many I have highs and lows ranging from 1/4" to 1-1/2". In areas where turf meets patio or walk way it could be as low as 2". I've taken an old Mclane and cut as low as I could in an effort to preserve equipment I use primarily in the form of a JD 180b.

A few quick questions.

Is it necessary to get down to dirt when scalping? Pictures attached- Should I go lower?

Is there such a thing as too much sand? I have seen many add maybe 1/4-1/2" and others go pretty heavy with sand.

Is USGA sand that much better than mortars sand? I have access to both. Wondering if benefits outweigh the costs. It's a small lawn so cost is less of a factor for me.

1/ton per 1k. Is that based on 1/4" coverage? Meaning 1/2" would be 2/ton per 1/k

Thanks!


----------



## lynchburg14

Need some help with this leveling thing. Do you level in the middle of the growing season or when it is coming out of hibernation?


----------



## conroyz28

Im in the North Dallas area. I ordered 15 tons of sand and it should be at my house early next week. Amazon can not get me the drag mat until May 1st with all this crap going on. Does anybody in the Dallas area have a Drag mat i can use/rent or buy. Or does anybody know any place around that might have them in stock. Ive already looked at Tractor Supply and Northern Tool with no luck.. Thanks
Chris


----------



## Mister Bill

lynchburg14 said:


> Need some help with this leveling thing. Do you level in the middle of the growing season or when it is coming out of hibernation?


Typically, the earliest timeframe to level would be after the turf has fully come out of dormancy, is completely green and actively growing, i.e., has been mowed 2-3 times. The reason for this is so the turf isn't smothered under the sand for any longer than need be and have the ability to quickly grow up through the sand.

The latest timeframe to level would be scheduled as to allow the turf time to grow through the sand and be filled in entirely before the turf begins to go dormant, again, so the turf isn't buried under sand during the off season.


----------



## conroyz28

Does this look like 15 tons of sand. Looks more like 15 yards. What do yall think


----------



## Mister Bill

conroyz28 said:


> Does this look like 15 tons of sand. Looks more like 15 yards. What do yall think


15 tons dry is slightly over 11 yards, so I'm not sure what it is you are asking. The sand appears wet, so you pay for the moisture that is in the sand by weight.


----------



## conroyz28

Mister Bill said:


> conroyz28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does this look like 15 tons of sand. Looks more like 15 yards. What do yall think
> 
> 
> 
> 15 tons dry is slightly over 11 yards, so I'm not sure what it is you are asking. The sand appears wet, so you pay for the moisture that is in the sand by weight.
Click to expand...

I guess im not sure either. Lol. Just want to male sure i have enough for 11k square feet front yard


----------



## Mister Bill

conroyz28 said:


> Mister Bill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> conroyz28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does this look like 15 tons of sand. Looks more like 15 yards. What do yall think
> 
> 
> 
> 15 tons dry is slightly over 11 yards, so I'm not sure what it is you are asking. The sand appears wet, so you pay for the moisture that is in the sand by weight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess im not sure either. Lol. Just want to male sure i have enough for 11k square feet front yard
Click to expand...

One cubic yard per 1,000 square feet of lawn is the traditional calculation most people use, but I find that to be more in line with top dressing than leveling. Leveling calculation depends heavily on depth of sand, first time level or just a touch up, etc. I can say this for certainty, 11 yards is a good start for 11,000 sq. ft. :lol: I'm guessing you may need a bit more in the end though unless your lawn is already relatively flat.


----------



## lynchburg14

Mister Bill said:


> lynchburg14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Need some help with this leveling thing. Do you level in the middle of the growing season or when it is coming out of hibernation?
> 
> 
> 
> Typically, the earliest timeframe to level would be after the turf has fully come out of dormancy, is completely green and actively growing, i.e., has been mowed 2-3 times. The reason for this is so the turf isn't smothered under the sand for any longer than need be and have the ability to quickly grow up through the sand.
> 
> The latest timeframe to level would be scheduled as to allow the turf time to grow through the sand and be filled in entirely before the turf begins to go dormant, again, so the turf isn't buried under sand during the off season.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much


----------



## Buster

Should you mix in soil with the sand? What's recommended?


----------



## Zach Taylor

conroyz28 said:


> Im in the North Dallas area. I ordered 15 tons of sand and it should be at my house early next week. Amazon can not get me the drag mat until May 1st with all this crap going on. Does anybody in the Dallas area have a Drag mat i can use/rent or buy. Or does anybody know any place around that might have them in stock. Ive already looked at Tractor Supply and Northern Tool with no luck.. Thanks
> Chris


Chris,

I would try posting this in the DFW forum. May have better luck with more of us locals checking that one.

Good Luck and let us know how it goes. I have a leveling project to knock out this year as well.

Zach


----------



## Mister Bill

conroyz28 said:


> Im in the North Dallas area. I ordered 15 tons of sand and it should be at my house early next week. Amazon can not get me the drag mat until May 1st with all this crap going on. Does anybody in the Dallas area have a Drag mat i can use/rent or buy. Or does anybody know any place around that might have them in stock. Ive already looked at Tractor Supply and Northern Tool with no luck.. Thanks
> Chris


Some chain link fence and/or chicken wire with a couple 4x4's laid across the top works very well in a pinch. Easy to source either.


----------



## Mister Bill

lynchburg14 said:


> Mister Bill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lynchburg14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Need some help with this leveling thing. Do you level in the middle of the growing season or when it is coming out of hibernation?
> 
> 
> 
> Typically, the earliest timeframe to level would be after the turf has fully come out of dormancy, is completely green and actively growing, i.e., has been mowed 2-3 times. The reason for this is so the turf isn't smothered under the sand for any longer than need be and have the ability to quickly grow up through the sand.
> 
> The latest timeframe to level would be scheduled as to allow the turf time to grow through the sand and be filled in entirely before the turf begins to go dormant, again, so the turf isn't buried under sand during the off season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you very much
Click to expand...

 :thumbup:


----------



## conroyz28

Zach Taylor said:


> conroyz28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im in the North Dallas area. I ordered 15 tons of sand and it should be at my house early next week. Amazon can not get me the drag mat until May 1st with all this crap going on. Does anybody in the Dallas area have a Drag mat i can use/rent or buy. Or does anybody know any place around that might have them in stock. Ive already looked at Tractor Supply and Northern Tool with no luck.. Thanks
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> Chris,
> 
> I would try posting this in the DFW forum. May have better luck with more of us locals checking that one.
> 
> Good Luck and let us know how it goes. I have a leveling project to knock out this year as well.
> 
> Zach
Click to expand...

Thanks,. Just found that forum, I ended up getting one ordered from Wal-Mart that will be here Tuesday and crossing fingers on getting the sand down Weds,


----------



## anthonybilotta

I have two questions:

1: I am currently cutting my lawn at .75 inches (lowest setting on my rotary) and I have been cutting every 2 days. The lawn is actively growing. Do I try to cut even lower before sanding, or do I just sand with the lawn at this height?

2: How much weight do y'all recommend adding to a 3x3 dragmat to make it more effective ?

I plan on leveling my lawn this week as we have a cooler week ahead.


----------



## Kicker

anthonybilotta said:


> I have two questions:
> 
> 1: I am currently cutting my lawn at .75 inches (lowest setting on my rotary) and I have been cutting every 2 days. The lawn is actively growing. Do I try to cut even lower before sanding, or do I just sand with the lawn at this height?
> 
> 2: How much weight do y'all recommend adding to a 3x3 dragmat to make it more effective ?
> 
> I plan on leveling my lawn this week as we have a cooler week ahead.


1: If you're already mowing as low as you can, that'll suffice. If you have an alternative method to cut lower I would suggest it as it allows you to much more clearly see the undulations of the ground.

2. I would suggest doing this to the dragmat before adding any weight. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=247070#p247070


----------



## lvlikeyv

kur1j said:


> This amazes me at what some "professionals" do. This is also why I'm so damn skeptical at anything that anyone that is an "expert" tells me.


I just called and asked for masonry sand for top dressing and was told that I'm going to end up with concrete. 
I asked if hes ever seen a yard with "concrete" soil after laying down masonry sand and he said no, "but I've got 20 years of experience" 
Any time I hear that statement I automatically hear "I dont have actual evidence to support my claim but I dont want to admit to being wrong"

I just browsed through this entire thread and didn't come across anyone (even with clay soil) that has a concrete lawn as a result of top dressing with masonry sand.



drewwitt said:


> okgrdnut said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have clay soil, if I use sand to level it, won't that just create cement? I've been topdressing with compost and top soil
> 
> 
> 
> Common concern. You would need to till lots of sand into the clay to get close to anything like concrete. Golf courses have been top dressing with sand for decades. Only concern would be in alternating sand and then compost, as you'd create layers that would bind up nutrients. Probably best to pick a medium and stick with it. The downside to organic material for leveling is it will decompose over time and not hold a "level" long term - or so the thinking goes.
Click to expand...

And to add to this, with some quick googling, it's easy to see that while there is sand and clay present, it is missing cement which is the actual binding agent. Add in the thousands of first hand accounts of people topdressing without any issues, I'll take my chances.


----------



## CenlaLowell

Got a quote from the same guy that delivers river sand for me.

River sand 100$ 5 yards, this is what I've been paying

Mason sand 280$ 5 yards, is Mason sand this much better???

I'll buy it I would like to know if it's worth that price over the river sand.


----------



## tcorbitt20

You might get a lot of small pebbles in the river sand. If you're mowing low with a reel, go with the masonry sand.


----------



## CenlaLowell

tcorbitt20 said:


> You might get a lot of small pebbles in the river sand. If you're mowing low with a reel, go with the masonry sand.


Mowing high over here. I'm wondering if Mason sand is easier to spread or something.


----------



## Murfandturf

Random Question: Why do folks advise putting fertilizer down after the sand vs before? Or is it just preference?


----------



## tcorbitt20

Murfandturf said:


> Random Question: Why do folks advise putting fertilizer down after the sand vs before? Or is it just preference?


My thoughts:
I would think either way is fine as long as it gets watered in before you spread the sand if you decide to put down fert before sand. If you do it after sand, there's no risk of dragging it in bunches into the lower spots.


----------



## Passat774

Thanks to everyone that suggested moving the metal drag's pulling side. I did mine and it seems like it will work much better this spring for levelling !!


----------



## claydus

I decided to do my first leveling job this past week   

















Then on Sunday we got 2 inches of rain    

































Anyone have tips on trying to level a yard with a slight grade away from the house?


----------



## Gilbert67

Mightyquinn said:


> I would recommend removing them if it's possible. How low do you plan on mowing this year.


Can I use topsoil on my Bermuda grass lawn?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Gilbert67 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would recommend removing them if it's possible. How low do you plan on mowing this year.
> 
> 
> 
> Can I use topsoil on my Bermuda grass lawn?
Click to expand...

What kind of topsoil are we talking about? Is it screened and pretty fine? If so you should be just fine, you just won't be able to smother it as much as you would with sand as it won't settle as easily.


----------



## anthonybilotta

Leveled my lawn the other day. I don't know who had more fun, myself or my daughter! The process was a lot easier than I thought. Took about 4 hours start to finish for a little more than 2000 sqft of lawn. The hardest decision of the day was when to stop dragging the lawn. Already looking forward to my next leveling !


----------



## Meximusprime

Had to take advantage of this great weather. Leveled front yard only for now as backyard is getting a makeover.

A couple of my neighbors got in on the fun


----------



## EricsLawnscapes

Anyone tried or have tips on leveling a TTTF lawn? I have leveled Bermuda lawns several times but my current TTTF lawn is throwing me for a loop. Seems like would be hard to cut it short enough to be able to level effectively without killing the grass. I would definitely do it in the fall and overseed right after but wondering if you basically end up loosing all the grass you have...


----------



## BakerGreenLawnMaker

Question, I scalped and dethatched backyard (Royal zoysia) late February. I noticed that I need to level the backyard to keep a healthy reel HOC of 1". I know Bermuda recovers much faster than zoysia, so Should I level now, or wait till May or June?


----------



## A to Zoysia

Very light sanding is ok right now but if you're going with a half inch or more, I'd wait until it's growing fast enough to grow out of the sand without worrying about smothering.


----------



## BakerGreenLawnMaker

A to Zoysia said:


> Very light sanding is ok right now but if you're going with a half inch or more, I'd wait until it's growing fast enough to grow out of the sand without worrying about smothering.


Thanks @A to Zoysia and keep those videos coming. Lot of good stuff brother! I was leaning towards end of May beginning of June for the leveling.


----------



## lvlikeyv

BakerGreenLawnMaker said:


> A to Zoysia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very light sanding is ok right now but if you're going with a half inch or more, I'd wait until it's growing fast enough to grow out of the sand without worrying about smothering.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks @A to Zoysia and keep those videos coming. Lot of good stuff brother! I was leaning towards end of May beginning of June for the leveling.
Click to expand...

+1 Very eager and excited, but feeling I should wait until the same time frame.


----------



## conroyz28

Started front yard. 15 tons almost all gone. About to water it in. Wasnt to bad. Its not hard, just exhausting. 
My back hurts!!!


----------



## Gilley11

Looks good, what'd you use to spread the sen sand?


----------



## conroyz28

Gilley11 said:


> Looks good, what'd you use to spread the sen sand?


I purchased the Yard Tough drag mat. 4.5x5 i think. It worked ok. The key is to knock down the mounds before you drag it. If not they will clump up and be too much in 1 spot.


----------



## falainwest

claydus said:


> I decided to do my first leveling job this past week
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then on Sunday we got 2 inches of rain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have tips on trying to level a yard with a slight grade away from the house?


I just bought that same level rake, the 30". How do you like it? I am still to use mind.


----------



## claydus

falainwest said:


> I just bought that same level rake, the 30". How do you like it? I am still to use mind.


Love it so far... need to level again in the next few weeks in some other areas


----------



## Colonel K0rn

CenlaLowell said:


> tcorbitt20 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You might get a lot of small pebbles in the river sand. If you're mowing low with a reel, go with the masonry sand.
> 
> 
> 
> Mowing high over here. I'm wondering if Mason sand is easier to spread or something.
Click to expand...

River sand has a mesh size that's larger than masonry sand. You should ask them for the mesh size. Masonry sand gets into the canopy much easier than river sand, which tends to have larger particles (aka mesh size).


----------



## conroyz28

I have a question about Air8 and RGS. If I sand leveled my lawn yesterday. How long would I have to wait unitl i can put down my first app of Air8 and RGS?? Thanks 
Chris


----------



## Tellycoleman

@conroyz28 how big is your front lawn that you applied 15 tons. Of sand. And how long did it take?


----------



## conroyz28

About 10k sq ft. Most of the day with my 10 year old helping. Shoveled sand into a gorilla cart. Then took my zero turn and transported to front yard from driveway. Knocked down the mounds then took a drag mat And made smooth. No hard just a lot of sand and you will be sore.


----------



## dhardy93

Buster said:


> Has anyone done a 'small scale' level? What I mean is simply targeting old ruts or irrigation settling. Not the whole lawn.
> 
> We just moved in and I've got a massive lawn. It's pretty level, except for some isolated ruts and depressions where irrigation went in years ago. I'm thinking of just filling those ruts with 50/50 mix and then assessing.


I have the same issue and was wondering same thing. Just have 2 spots where the ground above my irrigation pipes have sunk a bit. -- did you just go with 50/50 mix ?


----------



## Buster

Nothing yet. Still debating and going to talk with a landscaper and see what they think.


----------



## anthonybilotta

2 questions:

1: I did my leveling a few days ago, but as the sand has settled, it appears that there are small pebbles 1/4 inch and smaller scattered about (despite this being "screened masonry sand"). Do I need to get rid of these if switching over to a reel mower ? If yes, has anyone found the best way to do this?

2: When is the appropriate time to begin reel mower after leveling as to not damage the reel?


----------



## Meatpopsickle

Moved forward with the leveling this weekend. Ended up putting down about 1.75 tons on 900sqft. Lawn was worst than I thought. Put it down pretty thick. Applied some 34-0-0. I've seen so many before and after a I think I'm okay but have to say. Pretty scary throwing tons of sand on a green lawn and being left with this. It ranges from 1/4" thick to 1.5" in the really bad spots.


----------



## LawnGeek

Hello everybody. New to the forum, but long time addict. It's nice to be in good company, as my wife thinks there is something wrong with me! I am about to begin the process of a light leveling project in the backyard and just have some questions, hopefully this is in the right place. I currently have common bermuda and want to over seed in Princess, which is going to Arden, form what i understand. I have de-thatched and am going to core aerate before i apply the sand. If i overseed and roll after the sand application, will the grass seed have any issue with germination? Of is this the wrong approach? I'm also looking for a good place to pick up the masonry sand, if anyone in the Dallas area has any suggestions. Thanks in advance for any advice!


----------



## bkmanning

Last week I added some masonry sand to the front yard and a mixture of topsoil/sand to the back and side yard. I thought 30yds of sand and 10 yds of topsoil would be enough, I was wrong. I need another load of sand and topsoil to finish the back yard where the leach field has settled over the past few years. I'm not 100% concerned with the backyard as I still have an area where I need to finish installing the Tif419. My family thinks I'm crazy spending significant time outside trying to make everything level and green. I enjoy the reward for all my hard work, similar to many other people on this forum.


----------



## Mightyquinn

LawnGeek said:


> Hello everybody. New to the forum, but long time addict. It's nice to be in good company, as my wife thinks there is something wrong with me! I am about to begin the process of a light leveling project in the backyard and just have some questions, hopefully this is in the right place. I currently have common bermuda and want to over seed in Princess, which is going to Arden, form what i understand. I have de-thatched and am going to core aerate before i apply the sand. If i overseed and roll after the sand application, will the grass seed have any issue with germination? Of is this the wrong approach? I'm also looking for a good place to pick up the masonry sand, if anyone in the Dallas area has any suggestions. Thanks in advance for any advice!


Welcome to TLF!!

You may want to post this in its own thread so it will get more visibility, otherwise it may just get lost in this thread here. If it was me I wouldn't worry about overseeding "common" bermuda with a seeded version as your gains will be minimal. Do you live in a new construction house that had sod laid down? It might be 419 for all you know? Just something to think about. Depending on what your temperatures are in your area it may be a little too early to start seeding Bermuda anyway as you want it to be fairly warm outside consistently.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

bkmanning said:


> Last week I added some masonry sand to the front yard and a mixture of topsoil/sand to the back and side yard. I thought 30yds of sand and 10 yds of topsoil would be enough, I was wrong. I need another load of sand and topsoil to finish the back yard where the leach field has settled over the past few years. I'm not 100% concerned with the backyard as I still have an area where I need to finish installing the Tif419. My family thinks I'm crazy spending significant time outside trying to make everything level and green. I enjoy the reward for all my hard work, similar to many other people on this forum.


30 yards!! Holy cow, how many sq ft of lawn?


----------



## bkmanning

Philly_Gunner said:


> bkmanning said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last week I added some masonry sand to the front yard and a mixture of topsoil/sand to the back and side yard. I thought 30yds of sand and 10 yds of topsoil would be enough, I was wrong. I need another load of sand and topsoil to finish the back yard where the leach field has settled over the past few years. I'm not 100% concerned with the backyard as I still have an area where I need to finish installing the Tif419. My family thinks I'm crazy spending significant time outside trying to make everything level and green. I enjoy the reward for all my hard work, similar to many other people on this forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 30 yards!! Holy cow, how many sq ft of lawn?
Click to expand...

I live on a one-acre lot.


----------



## bpitts2

Planning on leveling my Bermuda lawn within the next week or two. Was also planning on dethatching first. So my main question is, how long should I wait after dethatching my yard before I level it with masonry sand?


----------



## conroyz28

Day 1



Day 5

Its been a little cooler then normal in DFW. Hopefully it will start filling in


----------



## Philly_Gunner

conroyz28 said:


> Day 1
> 
> 
> 
> Day 5
> 
> Its been a little cooler then normal in DFW. Hopefully it will start filling in


I almost leveled the same time as you but decided to wait until mid May. Lemme know how it fills in. What's your post level fert plan look like or did you fertilize before?


----------



## cldrunner

LawnGeek said:


> Hello everybody. New to the forum, but long time addict. It's nice to be in good company, as my wife thinks there is something wrong with me! I am about to begin the process of a light leveling project in the backyard and just have some questions, hopefully this is in the right place. I currently have common bermuda and want to over seed in Princess, which is going to Arden, form what i understand. I have de-thatched and am going to core aerate before i apply the sand. If i overseed and roll after the sand application, will the grass seed have any issue with germination? Of is this the wrong approach? I'm also looking for a good place to pick up the masonry sand, if anyone in the Dallas area has any suggestions. Thanks in advance for any advice!


http://www.topsoilgreenville.com/

These guys are in Caddo Mills. Last year I paid $400 for 10 yds delivered masonry sand. They are on I30.


----------



## Awar

I had my 5,000+ sq-ft lawn leveled yesterday by a professional company here in the Atlanta area... Here are some pics. Mote info & pics in this thread: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16916


----------



## LawnGeek

http://www.topsoilgreenville.com/

These guys are in Caddo Mills. Last year I paid $400 for 10 yds delivered masonry sand. They are on I30.
[/quote]

Thanks, I'll take a look!


----------



## dimi

conroyz28 said:


> Day 1
> 
> 
> 
> Day 5
> 
> Its been a little cooler then normal in DFW. Hopefully it will start filling in


Any updates? I am also leveling next weekend May 1st (in DFW). Was wondering if your Bermuda is starting to come through with no problems. I am thinking about fertilizing now and giving the lawn a week and a half head start.


----------



## Meximusprime

Seven days later. We had some good rain this past weekend but nothing bad in regards to wash outs.


----------



## texasdadbod

conroyz28 said:


> Im in the North Dallas area. I ordered 15 tons of sand and it should be at my house early next week. Amazon can not get me the drag mat until May 1st with all this crap going on. Does anybody in the Dallas area have a Drag mat i can use/rent or buy. Or does anybody know any place around that might have them in stock. Ive already looked at Tractor Supply and Northern Tool with no luck.. Thanks
> Chris


I have one out in Heath, TX if you want to use


----------



## Ren




----------



## conroyz28

dimi said:


> conroyz28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Day 1
> 
> 
> 
> Day 5
> 
> Its been a little cooler then normal in DFW. Hopefully it will start filling in
> 
> 
> 
> Any updates? I am also leveling next weekend May 1st (in DFW). Was wondering if your Bermuda is starting to come through with no problems. I am thinking about fertilizing now and giving the lawn a week and a half head start.
Click to expand...

It is starting to come around. Hopefully with this warmer weather it will get the Bermuda into high gear.


----------



## The_iHenry

Day 3 post level


----------



## conroyz28

texasdadbod said:


> conroyz28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im in the North Dallas area. I ordered 15 tons of sand and it should be at my house early next week. Amazon can not get me the drag mat until May 1st with all this crap going on. Does anybody in the Dallas area have a Drag mat i can use/rent or buy. Or does anybody know any place around that might have them in stock. Ive already looked at Tractor Supply and Northern Tool with no luck.. Thanks
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> I have one out in Heath, TX if you want to use
Click to expand...

I ended up buying one. But i do appreciate it.


----------



## conroyz28

dimi said:


> conroyz28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Day 1
> 
> 
> 
> Day 5
> 
> Its been a little cooler then normal in DFW. Hopefully it will start filling in
> 
> 
> 
> Any updates? I am also leveling next weekend May 1st (in DFW). Was wondering if your Bermuda is starting to come through with no problems. I am thinking about fertilizing now and giving the lawn a week and a half head start.
Click to expand...

I took this pic this morning after my sprinklers went off. This is 8 days after i put the sand down


----------



## Breebz

My sand is being delivered today. We got a lot of rain Wednesday and my yard is still soft. Should I wait till it firms up more before I level?


----------



## Murfandturf




----------



## Philly_Gunner

Murfandturf said:


>


Holy Cow, your grass looks so dang good already! Is that Bermuda?? If so, what's your maintenance schedule look like? Fert, water, cut, etc.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

Question for all of you that have leveled. What is the general consensus on fertilization? Before sand, after sand, balanced vs urea, how much, etc? Also, how level are you looking to get before you can start running a reel mower?


----------



## Ren

Philly_Gunner said:


> Question for all of you that have leveled. What is the general consensus on fertilization? Before sand, after sand, balanced vs urea, how much, etc? Also, how level are you looking to get before you can start running a reel mower?


I did before sand 1 lb/k urea. Seems to have worked well for me. I put a whole bunch of sand, like completely covered, my reel would be destroyed running right now 10 days out. If you have irrigation and sunlight i would go ammonium sulfate or urea. couple posts above you can see the progress, here is today.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

Ren said:


> Philly_Gunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Question for all of you that have leveled. What is the general consensus on fertilization? Before sand, after sand, balanced vs urea, how much, etc? Also, how level are you looking to get before you can start running a reel mower?
> 
> 
> 
> I did before sand 1 lb/k urea. Seems to have worked well for me. I put a whole bunch of sand, like completely covered, my reel would be destroyed running right now 10 days out. If you have irrigation and sunlight i would go ammonium sulfate or urea. couple posts above you can see the progress, here is today.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ren. I think I'm gonna hit it this weekend and next with .5/1k, urea and 3 lbs of chelated iron. I'll wait 2 weeks, level, followed by another 2 weeks of .25/1k each week spoon feeding and add chelated iron and some 14-14-14 in the final week. I'm new to leveling but know that there is no way I can start using a reel until I get some of these lumps and bumps gone.


----------



## Murfandturf

Philly_Gunner said:


> Murfandturf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy Cow, your grass looks so dang good already! Is that Bermuda?? If so, what's your maintenance schedule look like? Fert, water, cut, etc.
Click to expand...

Thanks brother. I mow with a Cali Trimmer about every 3-4 days. Water once a week. And apply fert every 3-4 weeks. I've been trying different ferts out but the three in rotation are GreenTrx, PGF Complete and Nitrophos.


----------



## Dchilders

Did my level this weekend. I'm glad this thread is here cause I referenced it a lot throughout the process. I was worried that I went too deep on the sand but after seeing lots of other yards that looked the same I guess it'll work out. Ended up with about 8 yards on 5500 sq feet


----------



## T0R0

Dchilders said:


> Did my level this weekend. I'm glad this thread is here cause I referenced it a lot throughout the process. I was worried that I went too deep on the sand but after seeing lots of other yards that looked the same I guess it'll work out. Ended up with about 8 yards on 5500 sq feet


Looking good!


----------



## T0R0

Awar said:


> I had my 5,000+ sq-ft lawn leveled yesterday by a professional company here in the Atlanta area... Here are some pics. Mote info & pics in this thread: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16916


I leveled my small yard last year... if I had a larger yard I would consider this! How much did they charged per sq ft?


----------



## Awar

T0R0 said:


> Awar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had my 5,000+ sq-ft lawn leveled yesterday by a professional company here in the Atlanta area... Here are some pics. Mote info & pics in this thread: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16916
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I leveled my small yard last year... if I had a larger yard I would consider this! How much did they charged per sq ft?
Click to expand...

@T0R0 $1500 for 5000 sqft


----------



## burnhagw

I have 4 yards of sand coming in two days, just tackling my front yard first. My level lawn rake arrives today, i have a landscape rake and broom already. Gonna buy a gorilla cart today or tomorrow to make it a bit easier if that's even possible. I'll post before and after pictures.


----------



## Txmx583

Sand just arrived!!! Going to knock out my second level today, Scalped yard to 1/4" Sunday, threw down humic Acid a few weeks ago, and two bags of Milo Sunday after mowing 🤘🏻🤘🏻


----------



## Breebz

I am picking up a JD 180E Friday. My first reel mower !! I just put out 3 yards of sand to level my lawn and finished yesterday. I didnt cut my grass as low as I wanted to before leveling because my mower wouldnt go very low. I have a lot of solid areas of sand with some areas of grass sticking up. When is it safe to use the reel mower? Will the sand dull the blade?


----------



## Redtwin

Breebz said:


> I am picking up a JD 180E Friday. My first reel mower !! I just put out 3 yards of sand to level my lawn and finished yesterday. I didnt cut my grass as low as I wanted to before leveling because my mower wouldnt go very low. I have a lot of solid areas of sand with some areas of grass sticking up. When is it safe to use the reel mower? Will the sand dull the blade?


Don't use the reel until you can do so without hitting sand. It will seriously dull your reel quickly. I would continue to use the rotary on the lowest setting until it fills in, then you can scalp with the JD and bump it up to your desired HOC. A mid-summer scalp is not a big deal with Bermuda.


----------



## Bmossin

Txmx583 said:


> Sand just arrived!!! Going to knock out my second level today, Scalped yard to 1/4" Sunday, threw down humic Acid a few weeks ago, and two bags of Milo Sunday after mowing 🤘🏻🤘🏻


6 or 7 yards?


----------



## Ren

Breebz said:


> I am picking up a JD 180E Friday. My first reel mower !! I just put out 3 yards of sand to level my lawn and finished yesterday. I didnt cut my grass as low as I wanted to before leveling because my mower wouldnt go very low. I have a lot of solid areas of sand with some areas of grass sticking up. When is it safe to use the reel mower? Will the sand dull the blade?


Sand will dull the blade, hard to say exactly when its ok to mow again. Im on day 12 and i think im going use a rotary for a little bit. It looks like its completely grown through, but once you get on top of it it is quite sandy. But this will vary case by case, how long the grass is, how much sand you put down, how fast the grass grows through and how high you have your reel set. Congrats on the Deere, i love mine. If you need any help setting it up there is a good resource here:

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=97

or you can just message me. :thumbup:


----------



## Txmx583

Bmossin said:


> Txmx583 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sand just arrived!!! Going to knock out my second level today, Scalped yard to 1/4" Sunday, threw down humic Acid a few weeks ago, and two bags of Milo Sunday after mowing 🤘🏻🤘🏻
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6 or 7 yards?
Click to expand...

This is 10 yards, I have another 10 coming for my neighbors that I talked into this haha.


----------



## Ren

Txmx583 said:


> This is 10 yards, I have another 10 coming for my neighbors that I talked into this haha.


Really? Looks more like 10 tons. This is like a reverse fishing photo. :lol:


----------



## Txmx583

Ren said:


> Txmx583 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is 10 yards, I have another 10 coming for my neighbors that I talked into this haha.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Looks more like 10 tons. This is like a reverse fishing photo. :lol:
Click to expand...

Lol nice 😂😂😂


----------



## Bmossin

Txmx583 said:


> Bmossin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Txmx583 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sand just arrived!!! Going to knock out my second level today, Scalped yard to 1/4" Sunday, threw down humic Acid a few weeks ago, and two bags of Milo Sunday after mowing 🤘🏻🤘🏻
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6 or 7 yards?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is 10 yards, I have another 10 coming for my neighbors that I talked into this haha.
Click to expand...

Who did you go with? Im thinking of reaching out to Lowery Sand and Gravel and getting something on the books for next week...


----------



## Txmx583

Bmossin said:


> Txmx583 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bmossin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 6 or 7 yards?
> 
> 
> 
> This is 10 yards, I have another 10 coming for my neighbors that I talked into this haha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who did you go with? Im thinking of reaching out to Lowery Sand and Gravel and getting something on the books for next week...
Click to expand...

I used Lowery again. I called about 4-5 places and they were the cheapest I could find and are reliable. I had one guy on Facebook that could do it cheaper but couldn't tell me when he would have it. So I went with Lowery again.


----------



## Munstercheeze

Started my phase one of leveling, using a smaller area on the back of the house as a trial run before hitting the 1000sqft in the front. The picture below is now two weeks post initial level and getting a bit concerned with the lack of growth. Prior to sand, I did overseed with milo.

Should I be worried about the lack of growth? Seems like many folks are seeing substantially different results after this period of time.


----------



## Kicker

Munstercheeze said:


> Started my phase one of leveling, using a smaller area on the back of the house as a trial run before hitting the 1000sqft in the front. The picture below is now two weeks post initial level and getting a bit concerned with the lack of growth. Prior to sand, I did overseed with milo.
> 
> Should I be worried about the lack of growth? Seems like many folks are seeing substantially different results after this period of time.


Fertilizing with Milo is your problem. Milo is not a good fertilizer to put out after leveling/topdressing. You need something fast acting with a lot of nitrogen to really jump start the grass to grow up through the sand. Milo is a slow release fert, find some urea or ammonium sulfate (21-0-0) and put that out at 1lb of N/k

also, water, water, water.


----------



## Munstercheeze

Perfect, I'll get put some out this evening! Thanks


----------



## Meximusprime

Just at 2 weeks since leveling and really happy on the progress. Most of the yard is sitting at .5-1 height. That works for me since my California Trimmer 7 blade should be here next week!


----------



## Philly_Gunner

Meximusprime said:


> Just at 2 weeks since leveling and really happy on the progress. Most of the yard is sitting at .5-1 height. That works for me since my California Trimmer 7 blade should be here next week!


Looks fantastic. What did your routine look like? Prep, fert schedule and type, etc.


----------



## Meximusprime

Philly_Gunner said:


> Meximusprime said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just at 2 weeks since leveling and really happy on the progress. Most of the yard is sitting at .5-1 height. That works for me since my California Trimmer 7 blade should be here next week!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks fantastic. What did your routine look like? Prep, fert schedule and type, etc.
Click to expand...

Thank you sir! Hope I respond to your overall question if not please message me. My routine is cut frequently at around 1.25, water and fertilize schedule is around every six weeks. My two go to fertilizers are GreenTrx from Ewing and Milo.

Typically I use the TRX after scalps and leveling since Milo alone won't get the bermuda going again.


----------



## conroyz28

This is my yard after 2 weeks of sand level job. This was my first time doing it and my lawn was bad.
Also 1st mow since sand and first Mclane reel mow(Ever) I like the reel mowing. A little sandy but its coming through the thick sandy splts the hotter it gets. 






The day i leveled.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

[/quote]

Thank you sir! Hope I respond to your overall question if not please message me. My routine is cut frequently at around 1.25, water and fertilize schedule is around every six weeks. My two go to fertilizers are GreenTrx from Ewing and Milo.

Typically I use the TRX after scalps and leveling since Milo alone won't get the bermuda going again.
[/quote]

Thanks man, appreciate it. I just put down 100# of TRX yesterday. Trying it out. Plan on leveling in 3 weeks.


----------



## ChiTX2015

@Breebz I would wait until almost all the sand is gone and you see sand on only 5-10% of the turf. You'd typically get there after a few weeks of rotary mowing. Mowing too soon after leveling with sand has cost people their reel and bedknife (~$400-$500)


----------



## AdamA

Finally going to do my lawn around the end of May. Going to go 50/50 or 60/40 sand & compost - most of the people in my area reported the best results with that - sand was washing away too fast (we get a LOT of rain). I've got about 5000 sq' to do. Going to get one of the 5'x3' drag mats, and hopefully borrow a wheelbarrow (I have no real use to really keep one). Some of us in the community may go in together to see if we can get a deal on it all.


----------



## Ren

about 13 days out from complete beach looking yard. Ive been doing a time lapse photo every morning. Once im back to reel mowing ill put it together.


----------



## DuncanMcDonuts

AdamA said:


> Finally going to do my lawn around the end of May. Going to go 50/50 or 60/40 sand & compost - most of the people in my area reported the best results with that - sand was washing away too fast (we get a LOT of rain). I've got about 5000 sq' to do. Going to get one of the 5'x3' drag mats, and hopefully borrow a wheelbarrow (I have no real use to really keep one). Some of us in the community may go in together to see if we can get a deal on it all.


I'd recommend getting a square drag mat. Either the 3'x3' or 5'x5'. The reason is because you can remove the handlebar and turn it 90' to make it more rigid.

The stock assembly lets the chain links roll up and it tends to dig material out of the dips.


----------



## Awar

Leveling Progress from 4/21 to 4/29 (T+8 days). Greening up nicely as we've had a lot of rain. Expecting to rotary mow next week before trying my new reel mower. Then the leveling crew will come back and redo the bumpy areas around mid-May.


----------



## RangersFC

Looking for some help on fertilizer timing in preparation for leveling. I got Waypoint soil test results on April 25th, which showed I was very low in N, P and K. Waypoint recommended putting down Best 16-6-8 Turf Supreme at 6.25lbs per 1,000 sq ft. I did that on April 26th and thoroughly watered.

Yesterday (April 30) I decided to scalp the lawn for the first time this Spring (which may have ruined the fertilizing, I don't know?). I now think I may as well level the lawn since I scalped, and I would do the sand in about 3 days.

Question - should I add more fertilizer (maybe Urea) before adding sand, or just add sand then add something after the sand is put down?


----------



## jarrodsp71

Getting my yard initially level tomorrow. I figure I should put down fert right after as I water in the mix. What are your opinions on pre emergent as well? I put PE out before spring but I don't know if it needs another round with the new layers on top. Thanks.


----------



## burnhagw

Leveled the front yard yesterday. First time doing it. It is hard work for sure. It will take a couple years to get it how I want probably, the sod installation when we moved in was terrible. The pictures are after I threw fert out and watered it in. This week is supposed to be hot in NC, so hopefully it all works out. I didn't level a part near the drive way because i'm having a extension put in soon, so saw no point when they will be pulling it up anways.


----------



## srolly85

how much will you irrigate after you level it?


----------



## burnhagw

srolly85 said:


> how much will you irrigate after you level it?


Not sure what the correct answer is. I watered the whole thing for 20 minutes after, and watered some more today. We're close to 90 today in NC


----------



## jarrodsp71

What a nightmare. I just had my lawn leveled by a local landscape company. They spread and leveled everything and when I went to water it in last night there are numerous rocks that will easily damage mower blades and potential damage to people and property. He came by today to manually pick up rocks for an hour and is coming tomorrow with a partner to do the rest. 1/3 of a three gallon bucket was full of gravel.

They used a combo of sand, compost, and topsoil. The rocks seem to have come from the topsoil. I'm also not happy with the compost because it looks close to mulch. Once I watered it in all the rocks became more evident as the water washed off some dirt attached. I don't know the best course of action. I feel they should rake up all circular objects but I don't know what they will agree to do. The company providing the mix should be at fault as well because he assured me they assured him everything would be screened and not damage equipment.

I checked out 5 other lawns he has done and they all look great. I don't know if I have higher expectations or if this was a bad batch of mix. Has anyone had a similar experience and what was the outcome?


----------



## burnhagw

What is the protocol for watering after leveling? Are you supposed to water daily, keep the ground moist, or just do as needed?


----------



## T0R0

burnhagw said:


> What is the protocol for watering after leveling? Are you supposed to water daily, keep the ground moist, or just do as needed?


I watered my yard in good after the initial level and then watered as normal (1.00- 1.50 inch a week) to supplement rainfall.


----------



## burnhagw

T0R0 said:


> burnhagw said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the protocol for watering after leveling? Are you supposed to water daily, keep the ground moist, or just do as needed?
> 
> 
> 
> I watered my yard in good after the initial level and then watered as normal (1.00- 1.50 inch a week) to supplement rainfall.
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks!


----------



## alistairfang

This looks great. 1st post here. I want to level my lawn this year too.

Where and what kind of sand did you get? Did you just use pure sand or you added topsoil 50/50 as well? 
Not sure it is Charlotte only. Folks are talking about masonry sand but I can only find mortar sand here. are they the same?



burnhagw said:


> Leveled the front yard yesterday. First time doing it. It is hard work for sure. It will take a couple years to get it how I want probably, the sod installation when we moved in was terrible. The pictures are after I threw fert out and watered it in. This week is supposed to be hot in NC, so hopefully it all works out. I didn't level a part near the drive way because i'm having a extension put in soon, so saw no point when they will be pulling it up anways.


----------



## Txmx583

My second level is going amazing!!! Yard is recovering at an amazing rate!!! I put down 5 yards of sand and the back yard is already mostly recovered after only 5 days!!

Below are pics of the progress. First pic is from Wednesday 4/29 and the bottom is from today 5/4


----------



## Jeremy3292

Txmx583 said:


> My second level is going amazing!!! Yard is recovering at an amazing rate!!! I put down 5 yards of sand and the back yard is already mostly recovered after only 5 days!!
> 
> Below are pics of the progress. First pic is from Wednesday 4/29 and the bottom is from today 5/4


Wow that's pretty good! Getting KILLED here in SC with these temps...gunna be mid 60s/low 40s the rest of this week! Was 80s past few days...my bermuda doesn't know what to do lol smh


----------



## burnhagw

alistairfang said:


> This looks great. 1st post here. I want to level my lawn this year too.
> 
> Where and what kind of sand did you get? Did you just use pure sand or you added topsoil 50/50 as well?
> Not sure it is Charlotte only. Folks are talking about masonry sand but I can only find mortar sand here. are they the same?
> 
> 
> 
> burnhagw said:
> 
> 
> 
> Leveled the front yard yesterday. First time doing it. It is hard work for sure. It will take a couple years to get it how I want probably, the sod installation when we moved in was terrible. The pictures are after I threw fert out and watered it in. This week is supposed to be hot in NC, so hopefully it all works out. I didn't level a part near the drive way because i'm having a extension put in soon, so saw no point when they will be pulling it up anways.
Click to expand...

I was confused as well, I was told they're the same. I used Red Mortar Sand from McCollum Trucking in Monroe. I live in Waxhaw and highly recommend their sand. I went to another place and their red mortar sand was not clean like theirs. This sand had zero rocks/debris in it. I went straight sand, nothing else.


----------



## Txmx583

Jeremy3292 said:


> Txmx583 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My second level is going amazing!!! Yard is recovering at an amazing rate!!! I put down 5 yards of sand and the back yard is already mostly recovered after only 5 days!!
> 
> Below are pics of the progress. First pic is from Wednesday 4/29 and the bottom is from today 5/4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow that's pretty good! Getting KILLED here in SC with these temps...gunna be mid 60s/low 40s the rest of this week! Was 80s past few days...my bermuda doesn't know what to do lol smh
Click to expand...

We're getting killed in the opposite direction, it's been in the mid 80's to 90's for the last week and already feeling like summer. Would be nice to have a few days in the 70's


----------



## Philly_Gunner

Txmx583 said:


> My second level is going amazing!!! Yard is recovering at an amazing rate!!! I put down 5 yards of sand and the back yard is already mostly recovered after only 5 days!!
> 
> Below are pics of the progress. First pic is from Wednesday 4/29 and the bottom is from today 5/4


Looks damn good! What does your pre and post level schedule look like as far as fert and watering? Also, where did you get your sand? Did you do straight masonry sand or did you mix any topsoil with it? I'm planning on leveling in 3 weeks. Sorry if you mentioned all this previously, I haven't had the tome to read all the way through the prior posts.


----------



## Harley

Txmx583 said:


> My second level is going amazing!!! Yard is recovering at an amazing rate!!! I put down 5 yards of sand and the back yard is already mostly recovered after only 5 days!!
> 
> Below are pics of the progress. First pic is from Wednesday 4/29 and the bottom is from today 5/4


I'm planning to do mine in a week or so. How many square feet and to what depth did 5 yards cover? I have about 3500 square feet to do and my calculations show 4 cu yards will cover that to a depth of .3". I'm shooting for between .25" - .5".


----------



## Txmx583

Harley said:


> Txmx583 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My second level is going amazing!!! Yard is recovering at an amazing rate!!! I put down 5 yards of sand and the back yard is already mostly recovered after only 5 days!!
> 
> Below are pics of the progress. First pic is from Wednesday 4/29 and the bottom is from today 5/4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm planning to do mine in a week or so. How many square feet and to what depth did 5 yards cover? I have about 3500 square feet to do and my calculations show 4 cu yards will cover that to a depth of .3". I'm shooting for between .25" - .5".
Click to expand...

Your right on the money! My yard is a about 5k sqft and my back yard is about .5" deep to 1/4" deep in the high areas. 4 yards would be perfect for your lawn.


----------



## Txmx583

Philly_Gunner said:


> Txmx583 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My second level is going amazing!!! Yard is recovering at an amazing rate!!! I put down 5 yards of sand and the back yard is already mostly recovered after only 5 days!!
> 
> Below are pics of the progress. First pic is from Wednesday 4/29 and the bottom is from today 5/4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks damn good! What does your pre and post level schedule look like as far as fert and watering? Also, where did you get your sand? Did you do straight masonry sand or did you mix any topsoil with it? I'm planning on leveling in 3 weeks. Sorry if you mentioned all this previously, I haven't had the tome to read all the way through the prior posts.
Click to expand...

I always use 100% masonry sand. If your going more than an inch deep a mixture would probably be better. I've gone almost 2" in a few tiny areas and they recovered from it but I wouldn't recommend doing that unless it's a curb line like I had.

I put down humic acid two weeks before my scalp. I scalped my lawn to 1/4" and then put down milorganite. A few days later I spread the sand and leveled. You don't have to wait, I only did because that was when the sand was going to be delivered. I do water my lawn daily after the level is complete to keep the sand weighted down and to push the grass.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

Txmx583 said:


> Philly_Gunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Txmx583 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My second level is going amazing!!! Yard is recovering at an amazing rate!!! I put down 5 yards of sand and the back yard is already mostly recovered after only 5 days!!
> 
> Below are pics of the progress. First pic is from Wednesday 4/29 and the bottom is from today 5/4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks damn good! What does your pre and post level schedule look like as far as fert and watering? Also, where did you get your sand? Did you do straight masonry sand or did you mix any topsoil with it? I'm planning on leveling in 3 weeks. Sorry if you mentioned all this previously, I haven't had the tome to read all the way through the prior posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I always use 100% masonry sand. If your going more than an inch deep a mixture would probably be better. I've gone almost 2" in a few tiny areas and they recovered from it but I wouldn't recommend doing that unless it's a curb line like I had.
> 
> I put down humic acid two weeks before my scalp. I scalped my lawn to 1/4" and then put down milorganite. A few days later I spread the sand and leveled. You don't have to wait, I only did because that was when the sand was going to be delivered. I do water my lawn daily after the level is complete to keep the sand weighted down and to push the grass.
Click to expand...

Excellent. I've been spoon feeding my lawn foliar AMS 21-0-0 at .25 per M weekly and will add some humic/fulvic next week. Hoping to have it thriving just prior to the level.


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## Txmx583

Philly_Gunner said:


> Txmx583 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Philly_Gunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks damn good! What does your pre and post level schedule look like as far as fert and watering? Also, where did you get your sand? Did you do straight masonry sand or did you mix any topsoil with it? I'm planning on leveling in 3 weeks. Sorry if you mentioned all this previously, I haven't had the tome to read all the way through the prior posts.
> 
> 
> 
> I always use 100% masonry sand. If your going more than an inch deep a mixture would probably be better. I've gone almost 2" in a few tiny areas and they recovered from it but I wouldn't recommend doing that unless it's a curb line like I had.
> 
> I put down humic acid two weeks before my scalp. I scalped my lawn to 1/4" and then put down milorganite. A few days later I spread the sand and leveled. You don't have to wait, I only did because that was when the sand was going to be delivered. I do water my lawn daily after the level is complete to keep the sand weighted down and to push the grass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent. I've been spoon feeding my lawn foliar AMS 21-0-0 at .25 per M weekly and will add some humic/fulvic next week. Hoping to have it thriving just prior to the level.
Click to expand...

Sounds good!! That is what seemed to help me this go around. It's growing strong and fast and that helps it recover much quicker.


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## Jfowler1914

Hi, so I did my first leveling this weekend. After finishing the process I have a few questions. 
Is it ok to drag sand again after watering and rain? Is it ok to go ahead and add more sand to low spots before turf grows in? What is the normal wait time to resume mowing? I have a Tru Cut C25, Original Trimmer 20 inch, and a Honda rotary. Should I keep reels off turf until it fully grows in? Any advice or info will be greatly appreciated!


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## burnhagw

Jfowler1914 said:


> Hi, so I did my first leveling this weekend. After finishing the process I have a few questions.
> Is it ok to drag sand again after watering and rain? Is it ok to go ahead and add more sand to low spots before turf grows in? What is the normal wait time to resume mowing? I have a Tru Cut C25, Original Trimmer 20 inch, and a Honda rotary. Should I keep reels off turf until it fully grows in? Any advice or info will be greatly appreciated!


Congrats, that's a lot of sand! It's gonna look good. Do you want to drag sand again because you feel the sand shifted? I don't think it would hurt anything to go over it again. I personally might wait for the low spots to grow a bit and then put some more sand on it. I think people typically wait 1-2 weeks to mow, sand will dull your reel mower up real quick. I've noticed a lot of people go over it first with a rotary on higher grass areas and wait a bit longer for the reel. Did you fertilize it after?


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## DHPriest

Doing my leveling in a couple weeks. Question regarding fertilizing. Should I use a fast-release option, or stick with slow-release?


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## ChiTX2015

DHPriest said:


> Doing my leveling in a couple weeks. Question regarding fertilizing. Should I use a fast-release option, or stick with slow-release?


Fast. You want the grass to grow through the sand/compost asap.


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## Jfowler1914

Thanks! Yes it was a lot of sand, lol. I did fertilize 2 weeks before and the day I sanded. It just seems like after dragging the sand I have some areas with more sand than others. Also, after the sand settled I can see some low areas, especially in the trench lines where I had irrigation installed. I guess I can wait until the turf grows through before adding more sand.


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## Jfowler1914

Thanks! Yes it was a lot of sand, lol. I did fertilize 2 weeks before and the day I sanded. It just seems like after dragging the sand I have some areas with more sand than others. Also, after the sand settled I can see some low areas, especially in the trench lines where I had irrigation installed. I guess I can wait until the turf grows through before adding more sand.


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## burnhagw

Jfowler1914 said:


> Thanks! Yes it was a lot of sand, lol. I did fertilize 2 weeks before and the day I sanded. It just seems like after dragging the sand I have some areas with more sand than others. Also, after the sand settled I can see some low areas, especially in the trench lines where I had irrigation installed. I guess I can wait until the turf grows through before adding more sand.


Yeah, it's going to be a process from what I understand. It won't be perfect after the first attempt.


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## jarrodsp71

I went with a sand/topsoil mix for my level. Should I expect to be fighting some weeds this summer?


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## TheE

Started yesterday. It was 8 yards of sand. I'm hoping to be finished with everything today 🤞


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## ChiTX2015

TheE said:


> Started yesterday. It was 8 yards of sand. I'm hoping to be finished with everything today 🤞


 Would love to see how it went. I have 5,200 sqft but I've never leveled with sand. I'm considering leveling with about 8 yards but would hate to put too much sand.


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## Kicker

ChiTX2015 said:


> TheE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Started yesterday. It was 8 yards of sand. I'm hoping to be finished with everything today 🤞
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would love to see how it went. I have 5,200 sqft but I've never leveled with sand. I'm considering leveling with about 8 yards but would hate to put too much sand.
Click to expand...

 if you core aerate prior to sand leveling you'll most likely be fine with 8 cu yd.


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## bwright

If you level then go back to cutting and use a rotary, will you get big ruts in the lawn from the rotary wheels?


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## Kicker

bwright said:


> If you level then go back to cutting and use a rotary, will you get big ruts in the lawn from the rotary wheels?


Nothing that won't sort itself out.


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## silverrainbow

Folks - I have a question. I don't have a lawn leveling tool yet but I have ordered one.

Today I tried leveling a small area with sand. I flattened the uneven area and tried to work the sand through the the grass by hand. I could still feel the dip so I added more sand and compressed with my shoes till it was even but it has completely covered the grass.

When I do get the leveling tool, I suspect I'll have to do the same that is add more sand where there are deeper troughs.

Is it ok to do this ie. compact the soil or would I need to fill in the deeper troughs over time?


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## bp2878

Finally got my tifgrand scalped today. Got it down to 1/4 before a belt broke on my 220a and shut me down. 1/4 is probably low enough. I can see dirt in most of the lawn. There is still some green on some areas but it will work I think. Should I wait until I see some green up before putting the sand to it? Or can I go ahead with it this weekend? Putting pre-e down tomorrow as well as 46-0-0. Would like to level as soon as I can.


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## TheE

TheE said:


> Started yesterday. It was 8 yards of sand. I'm hoping to be finished with everything today 🤞


I'm officially finished!! I'm on duty at the firehouse tomorrow so I will try to post some pictures on Saturday.

I had about a yard and half of sand leftover. For my first time leveling a yard, I learned a lot!

Number one, I'm my own worst enemy... I spent too much time trying to make things perfect; a little sand here, remove a bit there, cover this footprint in the sand, etc.

It's a lot of hard work!

The Gorilla Cart is almost a must have for leveling when you have a lot of sand to move.

And while I love my new sprinkler system that was installed last year, I learned real quick that just a plain old water hose and nozzle watered the sand in best for me.

Being the grade of our front and back yard is not the best, I'll definitely have to do some more leveling next year.


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## ddrriizz

Took the plunge. 6 yards of sand to cover 6500sq ft. Needed probably another yard of sand to cover all the areas perfectly. Kicked my butt.


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## Philly_Gunner

Built my drag today. As long as the lawn is growing strong I hope to level in 2 weeks.


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## wiredawg

Yard leveling is crazy work, have no idea how some of you are able to move the amount of sand in some of these yards...my hat's off to you just from the grind of it. Yesterday, I finally took the plunge at my hand at a little-bit-of-leveling. And I almost made it through without cramping up...almost. LOL Anyhow, I only did 1 cubic yard (big yellow bag from supersod, I got the leveling mix) spread that across 1000 sq ft or so...
Before Leveling (6May)

Product (8May)

After Leveling (8May)

I will post some update pics as this develops, hopefully. Given, I did all this by hand (shovel, (2) 5-gallon buckets, rake and leveling-rake (can be seen in the last pic) I can only handle 1 cubic yard at a time/a season. My basic goal was to add a bit of organics and fill-in those divot spots just to smooth it out a bit. I already did some spring fertilization and it was greening up nicely, at least as compared to the neighbors,. But, nothing like some of the lawns I've seen posted here...thanks for all the share of you all's awesome yards, it keeps me motivated.


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## Ren

So I'm about 3 weeks out from sand now. I have been rotary cutting and its pretty much there.


Last night after rotary cut


Today, first reel cut at 5/8" just to see how it looks


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## MrMeaner

Ren said:


> So I'm about 3 weeks out from sand now. I have been rotary cutting and its pretty much there.
> 
> 
> Last night after rotary cut
> 
> 
> Today, first reel cut at 5/8" just to see how it looks


Looks Legit Ren...Love Your place!!


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## wiredawg

Ren said:


> So I'm about 3 weeks out from sand now. I have been rotary cutting and its pretty much there.
> 
> 
> Last night after rotary cut
> 
> 
> Today, first reel cut at 5/8" just to see how it looks


AWESOME!!!


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## silverrainbow

Started my project today. 
The lawn was badly unlevelled. Took multiple layerings of sand to get it somewhat leveled.

I definitely needed much more than a cubic yard for 1000 sqft I got done today.


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## Imtriguy2010

I have a question about sand type. I used to work at a pretty high golf course who recommended I use river sand for my red clay soil. This was specifically because the sand is more coarse which allows for better drainage (which the red clay obviously doesn't do well). I was also told that a finer sand could also make the ground harder which could force the Bermuda to retreat. I have some pretty significant ruts (newer house, newer sod) so it will be pretty sandy but I also plan on mixing with screened topsoil. I can see using a finer sand when there are shallower ruts but why is everyone using masonry sand? Right now, I cut at an inch with a Jacobson PGM 19. Thanks!


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## SunnyBermuda

Wonderful thread, guys! Plan to level soon, too. Keeping my fingers crossed!


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## cnet24

For those that have leveled a slope- do you feel it's better to level with the grade of the slope or perpendicular to the slope face? I elected to level with the grade but always mow perpendicular. Wondering if it would make any difference aesthetically.


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## joelv40

Decided to level my bermuda lawn this year.

On 4/22 I scalped at .25 and bagged. I also used D thatch to eliminated as much thatch as possible before sanded on 4/26.

yard on 4/5. Tons of thatch.


4/26 - put down sand and dragged


5/5 - a little over a week. Watering every other day about 1 inch


5/12 - 2nd cut at .500. Still have some areas with sand. About 80% filled in


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## Seki

Ware said:


> Here is a quick time progression of my back yard leveling... :bandit:
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Hi Ware! I absolutely love the way your lawn turned out after the leveling project with sand. I just did an aeration/leveling on my tifway 419 lawn for the first time. My lawn seems to be growing ok through the sand however I noticed that it is very squishy. Does this get better and firm up over time? Also, how long after I leveled can I mow it? Thanks in advance.
Steven


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## Ware

Hi @Seki. It will firm up as it fills in. As for mowing, I would just resume mowing when it looks like it needs it.


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## Awar

Imtriguy2010 said:


> I have a question about sand type. I used to work at a pretty high golf course who recommended I use river sand for my red clay soil. This was specifically because the sand is more coarse which allows for better drainage (which the red clay obviously doesn't do well). I was also told that a finer sand could also make the ground harder which could force the Bermuda to retreat. I have some pretty significant ruts (newer house, newer sod) so it will be pretty sandy but I also plan on mixing with screened topsoil. I can see using a finer sand when there are shallower ruts but why is everyone using masonry sand? Right now, I cut at an inch with a Jacobson PGM 19. Thanks!


@Imtriguy2010 All I can tell you is be careful with river sand. Put conditions in place that it should be screened and free of pebbles larger than 1/8 inch or something like that. See my thread here (https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16916). The sand looked perfect upon delivery but after watering all the pebbles surfaced. I would say there's millions of tiny pebbles which is fine but I removed at least a couple hundred pebbles over 1/4 inch, some even over 1/2 inch. I have a brand new reel mower in the garage that I'll use for the first time next week and I'm nervous going below 1 inch HOC.


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## brojoeyhall

Good morning all, I am getting sand today to do some leveling on my TifTuf Bermuda. I scalped yesterday evening and I have some PGF complete to put down. My question is....Should I put down the PGF Complete prior to leveling with my sand or after I level? Please educate me on this.....Thanks


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## ChiTX2015

@brojoeyhall I don't think it'll matter. Just do it within a 48 hours before or after window and water water water and you should be in good shape. I have 7 yards of sand coming next week. Exciting stuff!


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## brojoeyhall

Ok so I just leveled out a small area of TifTuf Bermuda grass that I put in for a DIY putting green after scalping it down. See attached pics before and after....
1. Do I need to brush/broom this in?
2. Did I mess up by rolling it?
3. Am I ok to put PGF Complete on it now and water, water, water?
4. Will the TifTuf grow up through this sand even though it's completely covered in most of the areas?


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## Tinsmith292

I smothered a small area of my Tiftuf last year and it grew through. Water water water. Took a good couple of weeks though. It is indestructible IMO


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## falainwest

Quick question, which is preferable for lawn leveling? 
-Screened sharp sand (Larger in size) or 
-Screened masonry sand.
I'm leaning towards the sharp sand. Your inputs &#128076; will be greatly appreciated. Thanks


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## cbagz

I would use a masonry sand if I were you. Should be smaller, rounder and easier to work. The sharp sand will probably pack easier but not sure what the nominal maximum size of the sand is.


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## Philly_Gunner

For those of you that have leveled and @Ware do you continue to drag daily after the initial drag to help it further settle? Or do you drag it nice and level, water, fertilizer and let the grass do the work?


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## Meximusprime

Leveled my almost 1 month old backyard celebration with masonry sand 2 days ago. First pic was before I cut it down to almost 5/8 and sanded. Ended using the small pallet my Cali Trimmer was delivered on as a leveling tool with added weight.


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## lynchburg14

Guys how long after a level do you start cutting grass again with your reel mower? I am going on vacation last week of June and want to sand the Thursday/Friday before so the grass wont need to be cut while Im gone. Figured it would be a good time to do so. This will be my first time and Im a little scared to be honest.


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## Philly_Gunner

Has anyone ever used a cocoa mat for touch up work or for additional dragging after you've already used your regular drag? Looks like it would work a lot lot like a push broom but for large yards would make things much easier.


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## falainwest

Dchilders said:


> Did my level this weekend. I'm glad this thread is here cause I referenced it a lot throughout the process. I was worried that I went too deep on the sand but after seeing lots of other yards that looked the same I guess it'll work out. Ended up with about 8 yards on 5500 sq feet


Hello, has your lawn fully recovered from the leveling? I just did mine yesterday.


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## cnet24

For those that utilize Rachio- do you change your soil type after sanding? Or do you not think there is enough sand to matter?


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## Meximusprime

Post leveling progress after six days today. Hoping to cut most of it with reel today.


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## burnhagw

That looks awesome, great color.


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## falainwest

Meximusprime said:


> Post leveling progress after six days today. Hoping to cut most of it with reel today.


The recovery is epic I must say. Did you finally reel mow it?


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## RangersFC

cnet24 said:


> For those that utilize Rachio- do you change your soil type after sanding? Or do you not think there is enough sand to matter?


I don't adjust my Rachio for soil type after sanding, and I've sanded pretty heavy each year for 4 years. I've also done some Waypoint Analytical soil tests that include soil type identification, and the soil type hasn't changed at all. However, my soil type is Sandy Loam, so maybe that's why it hasn't changed?


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## Meximusprime

burnhagw said:


> That looks awesome, great color.


Thank you!


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## Meximusprime

falainwest said:


> Meximusprime said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post leveling progress after six days today. Hoping to cut most of it with reel today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The recovery is epic I must say. Did you finally reel mow it?
Click to expand...

Thank you! I did cut it all with reel at 3/4 and plan to cut it again tomorrow. Feels like I can go lower but really happy with the progress so far after one week on 1 month old sod.


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## Passat774

Simply put there is no better tool to top-dress than an ECO 250 and no better forum member than @cpVA.

He came over today and helped me spread 4 yards of sand in under an hour with his ECO 250.

If you are doing a leveling project I would be asking around everywhere until I found an ECO 250 for rental. I have leveled my yard two times before and it's a lot of work and not even close to spread as evenly as this machine.

The Eco 250 spreads the sand effortlessly and evenly as I had never seen before.


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## ZachUA

Passat774 said:


> Simply put there is no better tool to top-dress than an ECO 250 and no better forum member than @cpVA.
> 
> He came over today and helped me spread 4 yards of sand in under an hour with his ECO 250.
> 
> If you are doing a leveling project I would be asking around everywhere until I found an ECO 250 for rental. I have leveled my yard two times before and it's a lot of work and not even close to spread as evenly as this machine.
> 
> The Eco 250 spreads the sand effortlessly and evenly as I had never seen before.


Hey that looks like a really cool machine. Would love to give it a try. If it's slinging the sand out in an even pattern, how do you get it to fill in the low spots? Does it not throw the sand equally on the highs and lows? When I leveled by hand last year, I dumped the sand in the low spots and then knocked it down and spread it out from there.


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## rhettbo1

Pictures are around 5 weeks apart. I leveled with 7 yards of mason sand the first week of May. My lawn is a little over 4,000 sq ft and this was my second leveling project.


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## Philly_Gunner

rhettbo1 said:


> Pictures are around 5 weeks apart. I leveled with 7 yards of mason sand the first week of May. My lawn is a little over 4,000 sq ft and this was my second leveling project.


Holy smokes that looks good. Well done sir!!


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## Slim 1938

Wow @rhettbo1 ! That looks great. What a transformation.


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## Redtwin

@rhettbo1 We need to use that post as a sample for newbies who are afraid to cover their yard in sand.

"This is what it will look like a month later..."


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## Passat774

ZachUA said:


> Passat774 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Simply put there is no better tool to top-dress than an ECO 250 and no better forum member than @cpVA.
> 
> He came over today and helped me spread 4 yards of sand in under an hour with his ECO 250.
> 
> If you are doing a leveling project I would be asking around everywhere until I found an ECO 250 for rental. I have leveled my yard two times before and it's a lot of work and not even close to spread as evenly as this machine.
> 
> The Eco 250 spreads the sand effortlessly and evenly as I had never seen before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey that looks like a really cool machine. Would love to give it a try. If it's slinging the sand out in an even pattern, how do you get it to fill in the low spots? Does it not throw the sand equally on the highs and lows? When I leveled by hand last year, I dumped the sand in the low spots and then knocked it down and spread it out from there.
Click to expand...

We still used a drag matt as Ware showed us back a few posts and utilized my leveling rake.

I am mowing at .60 with no issues and can go lower, so I currently do not have any large low spots to fill in.

I must also admit looking at my watered in pictures this morning, we could have gone heavier with the sand.


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## mha2345

How often do you guys water after sanding? I just recently got irrigation so went ahead and leveled to smooth out the lawn after equipment and trenches created some low spots. No rain until next week probably.


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## rhettbo1

Redtwin said:


> @rhettbo1 We need to use that post as a sample for newbies who are afraid to cover their yard in sand.
> 
> "This is what it will look like a month later..."


I had the good fortune of a few nice rains and an irrigation system, but like I've read numerous times on here, "Bermuda can grow through anything!" It's always amazing to me how much sand disappears after one or two good waterings.


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## rhettbo1

mha2345 said:


> How often do you guys water after sanding? I just recently got irrigation so went ahead and leveled to smooth out the lawn after equipment and trenches created some low spots. No rain until next week probably.


I personally stuck to my normal irrigation schedule, which is twice a week. I was blessed with a few soaking rains though in the weeks following my leveling project.


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## Dchilders

falainwest said:


> Dchilders said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did my level this weekend. I'm glad this thread is here cause I referenced it a lot throughout the process. I was worried that I went too deep on the sand but after seeing lots of other yards that looked the same I guess it'll work out. Ended up with about 8 yards on 5500 sq feet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hello, has your lawn fully recovered from the leveling? I just did mine yesterday.
Click to expand...

Sorry I just logged on and saw this, yea it's about 98% recovered. I went a little heavy and it took about 3-4 weeks to really fill in.


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## erikankimm

My house sits on a small incline. I need to keep some of it for water to move off. Can I level that incline so it isn't so steep?


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## Meximusprime

A little over 3 weeks after sand on celebration.


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## wiredawg

wiredawg said:


> Yard leveling is crazy work, have no idea how some of you are able to move the amount of sand in some of these yards...my hat's off to you just from the grind of it. Yesterday, I finally took the plunge at my hand at a little-bit-of-leveling. And I almost made it through without cramping up...almost. LOL Anyhow, I only did 1 cubic yard (big yellow bag from supersod, I got the leveling mix) spread that across 1000 sq ft or so...
> Before Leveling (6May)
> 
> Product (8May)
> 
> After Leveling (8May)
> 
> I will post some update pics as this develops, hopefully. Given, I did all this by hand (shovel, (2) 5-gallon buckets, rake and leveling-rake (can be seen in the last pic) I can only handle 1 cubic yard at a time/a season. My basic goal was to add a bit of organics and fill-in those divot spots just to smooth it out a bit. I already did some spring fertilization and it was greening up nicely, at least as compared to the neighbors,. But, nothing like some of the lawns I've seen posted here...thanks for all the share of you all's awesome yards, it keeps me motivated.


Today is 30 Jun 2020: Updating with some results of my leveling with a few weekly pics:
15 May (Week 1)


22 May (Week 2)


29 May (Week 3)


30Jun (week 7+)


My low budget arsenal:


For the most part very happy with my results...Happy 4th of Jul to all, Don't Blow Yourselves Up!!!


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## Philly_Gunner

Here is my yard leveling progress pics...exactly 1 month apart.


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## Lp_chazychaz

I leveled my Bermuda lawn about a month ago with fine sand. About 5k Sq ft and 5 cu yds of sand. I used a 3 ft level rake to spread out the sand and drag it across to hopefully level out the lawn

I am super disappointed with how it turned out and hope someone here can help me learn what I did wrong. It's bumpy still. There are areas where the sand made shallow mounds and because it was locked in the grass I couldn't spread it anymore. I also watered the heck out of it like crazy.

When we finished leveling, there was pretty much a blanket of sand over the entire lawn. Because of this I decided to work the sand in with a push broom and traditional rake. Is this where I went wrong? Did I mess it up by disturbing the sand too much? If so are you supposed to just straight up leave a solid blanket of sand?

I'm also rotary mowing so I can only go so low. It was at roughly 1 inch when we did it. Did the sand spread shittily because the grass was too long? I have purchased a swardman and am waiting on it right now so I will mow lower by the time I try this again.

It's not the worst level job and it's probably no worse than when before I used the sand but with all the work I put in I'm just disappointed. Does anyone have any advice or rough first leveling experiences similar to mine?


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## burnhagw

Lp_chazychaz said:


> I leveled my Bermuda lawn about a month ago with fine sand. About 5k Sq ft and 5 cu yds of sand. I used a 3 ft level rake to spread out the sand and drag it across to hopefully level out the lawn
> 
> I am super disappointed with how it turned out and hope someone here can help me learn what I did wrong. It's bumpy still. There are areas where the sand made shallow mounds and because it was locked in the grass I couldn't spread it anymore. I also watered the heck out of it like crazy.
> 
> When we finished leveling, there was pretty much a blanket of sand over the entire lawn. Because of this I decided to work the sand in with a push broom and traditional rake. Is this where I went wrong? Did I mess it up by disturbing the sand too much? If so are you supposed to just straight up leave a solid blanket of sand?
> 
> I'm also rotary mowing so I can only go so low. It was at roughly 1 inch when we did it. Did the sand spread s--- because the grass was too long? I have purchased a swardman and am waiting on it right now so I will mow lower by the time I try this again.
> 
> It's not the worst level job and it's probably no worse than when before I used the sand but with all the work I put in I'm just disappointed. Does anyone have any advice or rough first leveling experiences similar to mine?


Don't beat yourself up about it. It will take multiple leveling projects to get it where your satisfied. I put 4 yards of mason sand on my front yard, and that is thick sand, and it's still bumpy, it's better...but still bumpy. I'm going to do it again next season. You should just bite the bullet and get a level lawn rake. The shorter the grass, the easier it is to level too because you'll see the low spots easier. Keep at it, you're gonna love your new mower.


----------



## CLT49er

I just leveled last week. I tried a few methods to pickup cores.

Push mower with bag - It didnt pick up much but chopped up maybe half the cores.

Blower - no success
Broom - no success

Plastic snow shovel was the winner. Got about 90% of the cores.

Also, you'll need a leveling rake. Made mine out of scrap wood. Worked like a charm and didnt cost $150. I posted more info on it last week. Check my profile for post.


----------



## alistairfang

Do you all mow your grass at all during first weeks of leveling?

I leveled my lawn on 6/24 and now it is about 70% filled. Those filled is probably > 2 in height now. However, with those 30% unfilled, I am not sure if I should mow my lawn? 
What would be first HOC after leveling? I maintain .75in before leveling.


----------



## Ware

alistairfang said:


> Do you all mow your grass at all during first weeks of leveling?
> 
> I leveled my lawn on 6/24 and now it is about 70% filled. Those filled is probably > 2 in height now. However, with those 30% unfilled, I am not sure if I should mow my lawn?
> What would be first HOC after leveling? I maintain .75in before leveling.


I would definitely resume mowing if it is 2" tall. I would take it back down to whatever height you plan to maintain at. That said, I'm not sure how that works with a manual reel mower - you may want to stay off the completely bare areas for a bit if the reel doesn't get enough traction in the deeper sand.


----------



## alistairfang

Ware said:


> alistairfang said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you all mow your grass at all during first weeks of leveling?
> 
> I leveled my lawn on 6/24 and now it is about 70% filled. Those filled is probably > 2 in height now. However, with those 30% unfilled, I am not sure if I should mow my lawn?
> What would be first HOC after leveling? I maintain .75in before leveling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would definitely resume mowing if it is 2" tall. I would take it back down to whatever height you plan to maintain at. That said, I'm not sure how that works with a manual reel mower - you may want to stay off the completely bare areas for a bit if the reel doesn't get enough traction in the deeper sand.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ware. I did buy a Honda HRX 2 weeks ago. One thing that hold me off is push mower over those bare area might leave traction so that I would have to level it again. I will avoid those bare area for now.
One other question, would rotary mower sucks up lots of sand?


----------



## nt5000

alistairfang said:


> Do you all mow your grass at all during first weeks of leveling?
> 
> I leveled my lawn on 6/24 and now it is about 70% filled. Those filled is probably > 2 in height now. However, with those 30% unfilled, I am not sure if I should mow my lawn?
> What would be first HOC after leveling? I maintain .75in before leveling.


@alistairfang I start mowing *right away* with a manual reel. I go right through the sand, and drag the bedknife right through it, over and over, in all directions. Wears the hell out of the bedknife, but the mower costs $100 so who cares! I keep adjusting it for contact and mow as low as possible every day, along with watering and spoonfeeding fert. After a couple weeks the sand will be mostly gone. I re-file the edge of the bedknife for a clean cut, and start with PGR to push density.


----------



## Art James

I did my first minor leveling in May. I went very light, 1/2 yard because I was worried. Well, I regret not just going all out with a full yard. I'm just shy of 1000sqft. Im getting some scalping in some areas cutting at 5/8 with my Mclane. I just the predator swap and the added weight is making the scalping a bit worse. My question is, are we to far into summer heat to doing another leveling? I'm thinking another half yard. Bermuda grass located in San Antonio, Texas. Summer heat is about to be upon us with some 100 degree days coming up.


----------



## Redtwin

Art James said:


> I did my first minor leveling in May. I went very light, 1/2 yard because I was worried. Well, I regret not just going all out with a full yard. I'm just shy of 1000sqft. Im getting some scalping in some areas cutting at 5/8 with my Mclane. I just the predator swap and the added weight is making the scalping a bit worse. My question is, are we to far into summer heat to doing another leveling? I'm thinking another half yard. Bermuda grass located in San Antonio, Texas. Summer heat is about to be upon us with some 100 degree days coming up.


I think you'd be fine doing another leveling. With it being this hot, it will fill in quickly.


----------



## drewwitt

Art James said:


> I did my first minor leveling in May. I went very light, 1/2 yard because I was worried. Well, I regret not just going all out with a full yard. I'm just shy of 1000sqft. Im getting some scalping in some areas cutting at 5/8 with my Mclane. I just the predator swap and the added weight is making the scalping a bit worse. My question is, are we to far into summer heat to doing another leveling? I'm thinking another half yard. Bermuda grass located in San Antonio, Texas. Summer heat is about to be upon us with some 100 degree days coming up.


I'm in SA - I leveled 4 times (light like you) from May - Sept last year. Grass was slower to recover in September. But if you keep water on it, it should grow through the sand quickly until end of August.


----------



## mwemaxxowner

Is "1K" of lawn short for 1000 square feet?


----------



## Philly_Gunner

mwemaxxowner said:


> Is "1K" of lawn short for 1000 square feet?


That's the general recommended amount unless you aerate prior.


----------



## Adamg77

Overall question: How should I go about keeping my yard there is an attached flower bed that is higher than the lawn. Not by much but enough for there to be an obvious difference in height from the yard and the mulch line. I don't like the look of any metal or stone wall to separate the flower bed and the lawn. I cut a good line in the lawn to define the difference and then put mulch in the flower bed.

I'll try and post a picture so you can see what I'm talking about. If I leveled the lawn that is next to the mulch would require putting compost in the flower bed and grading it to the lawn.



If you can see from the picture it is almost like a ditch where the flower bed meets the lawn 😂


----------



## Art James

drewwitt said:


> Art James said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did my first minor leveling in May. I went very light, 1/2 yard because I was worried. Well, I regret not just going all out with a full yard. I'm just shy of 1000sqft. Im getting some scalping in some areas cutting at 5/8 with my Mclane. I just the predator swap and the added weight is making the scalping a bit worse. My question is, are we to far into summer heat to doing another leveling? I'm thinking another half yard. Bermuda grass located in San Antonio, Texas. Summer heat is about to be upon us with some 100 degree days coming up.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in SA - I leveled 4 times (light like you) from May - Sept last year. Grass was slower to recover in September. But if you keep water on it, it should grow through the sand quickly until end of August.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. I might just go ahead and do it. I went and bought a few bags of quickrete play sand with the intention of doing a couple of spots. That sand seems to coarse and there a bunch is small pebbles. I'm returning the other bags.


----------



## mwemaxxowner

Philly_Gunner said:


> mwemaxxowner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is "1K" of lawn short for 1000 square feet?
> 
> 
> 
> That's the general recommended amount unless you aerate prior.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Just making sure I understood "1k" properly. I can get a full yard bag of masonry sand for $60 at the local hardware store. I think that's what I'm gonna use. For being bagged that's not too bad on the price. I can run it home with a forklift 😂.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

mwemaxxowner said:


> Philly_Gunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mwemaxxowner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is "1K" of lawn short for 1000 square feet?
> 
> 
> 
> That's the general recommended amount unless you aerate prior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you. Just making sure I understood "1k" properly. I can get a full yard bag of masonry sand for $60 at the local hardware store. I think that's what I'm gonna use. For being bagged that's not too bad on the price. I can run it home with a forklift 😂.
Click to expand...

I would call around to local sand suppliers. You can probably find better sand for less cost delivered. Or better yet, if you have a truck or a friend with one, pick it up yourself.


----------



## mwemaxxowner

I have a truck, but I'd rather have it in a bag. My truck couldn't handle a yard of sand, so I'd have to put it on a trailer, I don't have or have access to a dump trailer, so then I would have to get it off the trailer somehow. I've hauled rock on a flat bed by using a dumpster bag and tarping it well. I can haul sand the same way but it's a bit more work to get off the trailer.

I live close to work and close to the hardware store. I can use a forklift from work to take a bag of sand home and put not wherever I like and out of the way. Then I can work it from the bag using a wheelbarrow or my 6x10 trailer.

From what I've seen in here it sounds like masonry sand is about as good a choice as any? For the convenience of being bagged I don't think $60 for a yard is too bad.


----------



## mwemaxxowner

When I'm ready to do this, would it be worth purchasing a push reel mower just for this task? I have centipede for reference. I can only mow it down to about 2" overall without scalping certain spots with the rotary zero turn.


----------



## Adamg77

Anyone give any advice for my previous post?


----------



## drewwitt

Art James said:


> drewwitt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art James said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did my first minor leveling in May. I went very light, 1/2 yard because I was worried. Well, I regret not just going all out with a full yard. I'm just shy of 1000sqft. Im getting some scalping in some areas cutting at 5/8 with my Mclane. I just the predator swap and the added weight is making the scalping a bit worse. My question is, are we to far into summer heat to doing another leveling? I'm thinking another half yard. Bermuda grass located in San Antonio, Texas. Summer heat is about to be upon us with some 100 degree days coming up.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in SA - I leveled 4 times (light like you) from May - Sept last year. Grass was slower to recover in September. But if you keep water on it, it should grow through the sand quickly until end of August.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. I might just go ahead and do it. I went and bought a few bags of quickrete play sand with the intention of doing a couple of spots. That sand seems to coarse and there a bunch is small pebbles. I'm returning the other bags.
Click to expand...

Try Morris Supply downtown on Flores. $30 for a yard of clean mason sand.


----------



## Art James

drewwitt said:


> Art James said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drewwitt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in SA - I leveled 4 times (light like you) from May - Sept last year. Grass was slower to recover in September. But if you keep water on it, it should grow through the sand quickly until end of August.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. I might just go ahead and do it. I went and bought a few bags of quickrete play sand with the intention of doing a couple of spots. That sand seems to coarse and there a bunch is small pebbles. I'm returning the other bags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try Morris Supply downtown on Flores. $30 for a yard of clean mason sand.
Click to expand...

Awesome! Thanks for the tip.


----------



## lawn789

Does anyone know if 3/8ths size sand is good for leveling? Thats what my local supplier has. Around $15/ton.


----------



## Ware

lawn789 said:


> Does anyone know if 3/8ths size sand is good for leveling? Thats what my local supplier has. Around $15/ton.


Not unless you want a lawn full of 3/8" pebbles. 😬


----------



## lawn789

Ware said:


> lawn789 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if 3/8ths size sand is good for leveling? Thats what my local supplier has. Around $15/ton.
> 
> 
> 
> Not unless you want a lawn full of 3/8" pebbles. 😬
Click to expand...

What size should I be looking for? What size is play sand? I've called everywhere in my area and they have no clue what mason sand is.


----------



## Bombers

Pulled this supplier based on your location: http://www.jeffreysand.com/Products

http://www.jeffreysand.com/portals/0/pdfs/Gradation%20Report_Mason%20Sand_2018.pdf


----------



## lawn789

I was just about to say I found that supplier just now. Thank y'all for steering me in the right direction.


----------



## Batsonbe

Thanks to my buddy, I have my version of Connor wards drag. Made it a 3 x 5. I don't think I'll put it to good use until next year though. I don't want to take my bermuda out of regulation to level again.


----------



## Redtwin

Batsonbe said:


> Thanks to my buddy, I have my version of Connor wards drag. Made it a 3 x 5. I don't think I'll put it to good use until next year though. I don't want to take my bermuda out of regulation to level again.


I'm in the same boat. I desperately need to do another level because I'm getting scalp streaks in the thick spots. I'll wait until next season because 1) like you I don't want to come out of regulation, 2) I don't want to deal with weed pressure that comes with my sand supply, and 3) it's a few degrees cooler than the surface of the sun out there.

Edit: How much was the material to build that drag? I have some friends who weld and was thinking of building one.


----------



## Batsonbe

Redtwin said:


> Batsonbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to my buddy, I have my version of Connor wards drag. Made it a 3 x 5. I don't think I'll put it to good use until next year though. I don't want to take my bermuda out of regulation to level again.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in the same boat. I desperately need to do another level because I'm getting scalp streaks in the thick spots. I'll wait until next season because 1) like you I don't want to come out of regulation, 2) I don't want to deal with weed pressure that comes with my sand supply, and 3) it's a few degrees cooler than the surface of the sun out there.
> 
> Edit: How much was the material to build that drag? I have some friends who weld and was thinking of building one.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear you agreed with my thinking on taking the Bermuda out of regulation. I believe I got a good bit of crabgrass from leveling Also. I bought a 20' 2x1 1/8" thick C channel and a 20' 2x2 angle iron. I got all that for $45.


----------



## Redtwin

Batsonbe said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Batsonbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to my buddy, I have my version of Connor wards drag. Made it a 3 x 5. I don't think I'll put it to good use until next year though. I don't want to take my bermuda out of regulation to level again.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in the same boat. I desperately need to do another level because I'm getting scalp streaks in the thick spots. I'll wait until next season because 1) like you I don't want to come out of regulation, 2) I don't want to deal with weed pressure that comes with my sand supply, and 3) it's a few degrees cooler than the surface of the sun out there.
> 
> Edit: How much was the material to build that drag? I have some friends who weld and was thinking of building one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Glad to hear you agreed with my thinking on taking the Bermuda out of regulation. I believe I got a good bit of crabgrass from leveling Also. I bought a 20' 2x1 1/8" thick C channel and a 20' 2x2 angle iron. I got all that for $45.
Click to expand...

Yes... crabgrass this year. I have been able to keep up with just hand pulling it but don't want to have to spray if I can avoid it. 
For the most part I can see from the picture, but regarding the C channel, is the open side up, down, or side?


----------



## cbagz

Redtwin said:


> For the most part I can see from the picture, but regarding the C channel, is the open side up, down, or side?


I was wondering the same thing as I don't see any C channel in the photo.


----------



## Batsonbe

Redtwin said:


> Batsonbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in the same boat. I desperately need to do another level because I'm getting scalp streaks in the thick spots. I'll wait until next season because 1) like you I don't want to come out of regulation, 2) I don't want to deal with weed pressure that comes with my sand supply, and 3) it's a few degrees cooler than the surface of the sun out there.
> 
> Edit: How much was the material to build that drag? I have some friends who weld and was thinking of building one.
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to hear you agreed with my thinking on taking the Bermuda out of regulation. I believe I got a good bit of crabgrass from leveling Also. I bought a 20' 2x1 1/8" thick C channel and a 20' 2x2 angle iron. I got all that for $45.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes... crabgrass this year. I have been able to keep up with just hand pulling it but don't want to have to spray if I can avoid it.
> For the most part I can see from the picture, but regarding the C channel, is the open side up, down, or side?
Click to expand...

I sent my buddy the video of connors. My friend thought the C was suppose to be facing in. I thought it was suppose to be facing out. He welded it up with 1 C facing out and 1 C facing in. I could just decide what worked best and pull it either way.


----------



## Redtwin

Batsonbe said:


> I sent my buddy the video of connors. My friend thought the C was suppose to be facing in. I thought it was suppose to be facing out. He welded it up with 1 C facing out and 1 C facing in. I could just decide what worked best and pull it either way.


I was thinking of just having them face up, or use the angle iron for all of it and have it open to the back.


----------



## ChessCharlie

Newb here.. I am reading through the thread.. keep seeing "OM" abbreviation.. can someone clarify what this is? Thanks for any info!


----------



## Redtwin

OM = Outside measurement

It's used in measuring the pipe size.


----------



## DuncanMcDonuts

It could also be organic matter. Sand doesn't have any, so people add organic matter like compost after leveling to improve the soil quality.


----------



## Kicker

Redtwin said:


> OM = Outside measurement
> 
> It's used in measuring the pipe size.


Yeah, It's Organic Matter...

the outside measurement of a pipe should always be "OD"


----------



## ChessCharlie

Appreciate it fellas, looking back I should have been able to figure that out from context.. but at least now it makes sense to me lol. Thanks again.


----------



## Redtwin

Kicker said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> OM = Outside measurement
> 
> It's used in measuring the pipe size.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, It's Organic Matter...
> 
> the outside measurement of a pipe should always be "OD"
Click to expand...

Doh! I was digging back into the posts to try to find it... thanks for the correction.


----------



## Lbk407

First post - first time homeowner here. We closed on a new build in October that has 3k sqft Celebration Bermuda with clay soil in Lubbock. The whole lawn is extremely bumpy so I'd like to do a core aeration and bring in sand. I'm cutting at 1.5" which still scalps in a few areas so I can't go any lower. I've got a local company doing treatments (Ashton Walden) that does a decent job but will be ditching them after this season.

I've read this whole thread (awesome) and it seems people typically stick to the spring/early summee for this project. Last week we were 100-109F every day but the next few weeks we're down to the mid 90s. Am I too late in the season to start? Will it stress the grass too much with the heat? Any insight would be appreciated.


----------



## slammed68

Lbk407 said:


> First post - first time homeowner here. We closed on a new build in October that has 3k sqft Celebration Bermuda with clay soil in Lubbock. The whole lawn is extremely bumpy so I'd like to do a core aeration and bring in sand. I'm cutting at 1.5" which still scalps in a few areas so I can't go any lower. I've got a local company doing treatments (Ashton Walden) that does a decent job but will be ditching them after this season.
> 
> I've read this whole thread (awesome) and it seems people typically stick to the spring/early summee for this project. Last week we were 100-109F every day but the next few weeks we're down to the mid 90s. Am I too late in the season to start? Will it stress the grass too much with the heat? Any insight would be appreciated.


I'm in dfw and just did mine over the weekend. just keep it watered and it should be fine.


----------



## DuncanMcDonuts

You need about 4-6 weeks of growing season after a leveling. You have plenty of time.


----------



## Lbk407

Thanks for the quick replies. I'm going to go for it before the end of the month.


----------



## thatguyhileman

First post on here and I think I screwed up. Got some bad sand/wrong sand full of pebbles/gravel that I couldn't tell until it was already out. How do I fix this? Is it as bad as I think? Do I try and get it back up somehow or add good sand to the top and cover it? Help me out here guys.


----------



## Adamg77

Anyone have a level lawn rake I can borrow for a small level job in the DFW area? Happily reimburse with assistance in your level job or brews. Pm thank you


----------



## cnet24

thatguyhileman said:


> First post on here and I think I screwed up. Got some bad sand/wrong sand full of pebbles/gravel that I couldn't tell until it was already out. How do I fix this? Is it as bad as I think? Do I try and get it back up somehow or add good sand to the top and cover it? Help me out here guys.


This isn't good... especially if reel mowing. I would start with a call to your supplier and give them these pictures to see if you ordered the wrong product or if they did not screen properly. Unfortunately the only way I see to get this up is with a shop vac...


----------



## lanc0227

I was wondering if someone could help me out. I am in Dallas, TX. How long after putting down new sod should you wait to do a leveling project? Also, what is the latest you start a leveling project? Is this something I should do now or just wait until the spring. I put down the sod on July 25.


----------



## Kicker

lanc0227 said:


> I was wondering if someone could help me out. I am in Dallas, TX. How long after putting down new sod should you wait to do a leveling project? Also, what is the latest you start a leveling project? Is this something I should do now or just wait until the spring. I put down the sod on July 25.


I would hold off on leveling until spring 2020. Let the sod get established with the remainder of this growing season. Next spring you can scalp & level.


----------



## Awar

thatguyhileman said:


> First post on here and I think I screwed up. Got some bad sand/wrong sand full of pebbles/gravel that I couldn't tell until it was already out. How do I fix this? Is it as bad as I think? Do I try and get it back up somehow or add good sand to the top and cover it? Help me out here guys.


Happened to me with river sand. I picked up probably a couple of hundred pebbles from my 5000 sq-ft lawn. I had the manager from the company that did the work come over and he picked up some pebbles himself. Every time I watered the lawn some pebbles would surface and I walk my lawn to pick some up.

I thought about renting a shop vac or running a lawn roller etc. but ended up just picking them and being careful before reel mowing. I did not reel mow below 1/2" to mitigate the risk. Here are my threads about this topic:

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16916
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17671


----------



## Wicky

Hey guys,

My Bermuda tiftuf sod was laid in January of 2020 in Raleigh,nc. Needless to say it is bumpy and difficult to cut. Being as it is almost mid August, should I wait until the spring to drop sand and level?

Thanks


----------



## rjw0283

Wicky said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> My Bermuda tiftuf sod was laid in January of 2020 in Raleigh,nc. Needless to say it is bumpy and difficult to cut. Being as it is almost mid August, should I wait until the spring to drop sand and level?
> 
> Thanks


I think your still good, I plan on doing mine in the next week. We should have well over 4-6 weeks of growing left. All of September and a few weeks of October.


----------



## Wicky

Thanks, I have 20 tons coming Tuesday.


----------



## rjw0283

Wicky said:


> Thanks, I have 20 tons coming Tuesday.


I'm doing my front yard tomorrow or Sunday. Should be plenty of time, my PGR will be hitting 225 gdd on Monday, I'll be hitting it with plenty of nitrogen, I want to get as much growth as I can while we are still hot in August. October is when I normally can get away with mowing once a week, so the plan is to be fully grown back by then.


----------



## aznick

So I might need to remove some tree roots underneath my bermuda in a small corner of my lawn. If I do this it's going to uproot the soil and I'll have to do a bit of leveling to get it back to normal. What would you use to level it? Sand or topsoil? Problem with sand is that I wouldn't need much and I can only buy good screened sand in bulk. The stuff at Home Depot is to coarse from what I've seen. And the problem with top soil is the only stuff I can ever find is filled with twigs and bark and I don't want to run my reel mower over that. What would you all suggest?


----------



## cnet24

@aznick for small jobs like that I just buy play sand at Home Depot. Works fine.


----------



## Wicky

I'm thinking of renting a mini skid steer from Home depot to help spread it. I dont feel like wheelbarrow 20 tons around the yard


----------



## lanc0227

Kicker said:


> lanc0227 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was wondering if someone could help me out. I am in Dallas, TX. How long after putting down new sod should you wait to do a leveling project? Also, what is the latest you start a leveling project? Is this something I should do now or just wait until the spring. I put down the sod on July 25.
> 
> 
> 
> I would hold off on leveling until spring 2020. Let the sod get established with the remainder of this growing season. Next spring you can scalp & level.
Click to expand...

Thanks!


----------



## SGrabs33

Wicky said:


> I'm thinking of renting a mini skid steer from Home depot to help spread it. I dont feel like wheelbarrow 20 tons around the yard


Man. 20 tons. Your in for some work. Got some kids or neighbors that can help? Do you have a drag mat or metal drag to level it out? Where did you get the sand from?


----------



## ZEM

Wicky said:


> I'm thinking of renting a mini skid steer from Home depot to help spread it. I dont feel like wheelbarrow 20 tons around the yard


Your lawn is 11k? 20 tons will be too much for that size. From my experience a skid steer on the lawn creates more damage to repair.


----------



## DuncanMcDonuts

ZEM said:


> Wicky said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking of renting a mini skid steer from Home depot to help spread it. I dont feel like wheelbarrow 20 tons around the yard
> 
> 
> 
> Your lawn is 11k? 20 tons will be too much for that size. From my experience a skid steer on the lawn creates more damage to repair.
Click to expand...

20 tons is roughly 15 yards, which isn't that heavy on a first leveling project if the yard is bumpy to begin with.


----------



## thangkhungdien

I really want to get a lawn leveling done but I have few questions can't answer it myself.
1 - I have common bermuda, is it worth to leveling?
2 - If I do level with common bermuda, next few years down the road I want to reno with Tiftuf Bermuda then is it too much work since lawn is already level?

My lawn is about 4000 sqft. I am in DFW.

Thanks for any input and advice.


----------



## rjw0283

3 yards of sand in my 2300 SQ ft yd.



[/url
The before level picture

1 week after, I did another semi scalp by bringing HOC down to .5 inch

[url=https://postimages.org/]


----------



## Wicky

I bought the drag mat off Amazon, same as ward's. Probably could have planned it a little better and had a home depot rental lined up. I spread maybe 14 tons today, but it was all wet from a heavy rain last night. I spread it using a shovel and wheelbarrow, I do not recommend this method. No help, just me. The sand is to wet for the drag mat, something I didn't count on landscape raked the piles and hopefully able to drag tomorrow.


----------



## Wicky

My sod was placed down in January during some heavy rain, and I literally bounce around cutting the grass, needless to say its rough. I have some photos I'll post later. Sun is out now in Raleigh but it's supposed to rain later. Hopefully not before I get this sand leveling done.


----------



## Wicky

So, I spent the morning dragging, clearing the mat because the sand was still to wet, dragging some more. Just as I had the sand starting to dry out it downpours for 15 minutes, then the sun comes back out. Needless to say I think I am out of luck. Weather calls for heavy rain over the next few days. Here are some pics


----------



## Brou

Oh let's be real @Wicky. If rain is in our forecast it'll stay dry. It's when there's no rain in the forecast that you have to be worried.

Looks like you got a lot done. Fingers crossed that the weather holds.


----------



## Wicky

Ha, you're correct. Glad it rained, Canes game at 4.


----------



## adidasUNT8

are you only supposed to level once a season? We leveled back in June. Can we do another treatment or best to wait until next season?


----------



## Redtwin

You can definitely level more than once, you just want to make sure you have enough time left for it to grow through.


----------



## dfw_pilot

thangkhungdien said:


> 1 - I have common bermuda, is it worth to leveling?


Yes.


thangkhungdien said:


> 2 - If I do level with common bermuda, next few years down the road I want to reno with Tiftuf Bermuda then is it too much work since lawn is already level?


No.

My 2¢.


----------



## Betterthanmyneighbor

I just did a full reno and tried to really focus on starting off right. I guess time will tell lol.. grass is about 12 days old.


----------



## Zbahl45

Red Cup said:


> One thing I'm curios about, Ware bought several bags of sand and had them placed around his yard where most of the level projects I have seen, everyone gets the large pile in one location. Was the effort of fixing the ruts from the lift that dropped them off worth having the shorter distance to put the sand out?


Have you ever tried the 50/50 compost sand for leveling?


----------



## Mightyquinn

I don't recommend using compost as it will decompose over time and you won't get as a true of a level as you would with straight sand.

I think what everyone gets confused with is that the sand leveling is just that. A leveling, it is NOT going to be in your rootzone so who cares if it has any nutrient holding capacity at all. Depending on how much you add, it's all going to be in the top 1" of the soil where most roots are not going to be.


----------



## DFWdude

ZEM said:


> Wicky said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking of renting a mini skid steer from Home depot to help spread it. I dont feel like wheelbarrow 20 tons around the yard
> 
> 
> 
> Your lawn is 11k? 20 tons will be too much for that size. From my experience a skid steer on the lawn creates more damage to repair.
Click to expand...

I am going to level in early spring '21, and planned to use a tracked skid steer to help move the 15 tons. Tracked such that the weight was better distributed.

Am I just asking for ruts in my yard?


----------



## Kicker

DFWdude said:


> I am going to level in early spring '21, and planned to use a tracked skid steer to help move the 15 tons. Tracked such that the weight was better distributed.
> 
> Am I just asking for ruts in my yard?


Yes, you're going to create ruts. However, you're leveling with sand... If done properly, it should cancel it out. If the ruts are like 3-4" deep, it's going to take a while for it to fill in those areas.


----------



## Redtwin

You'll see the ruts as the grass starts to grow through because the sand will be deeper in the ruts. It doesn't take long though and it saves a lot of back breaking work. Check out the first page of my hurricane recovery journal if you want to see what it will look like.


----------



## DFWdude

When applying sand and dragging it smooth, should pop up sprinkler heads be avoided? I could see the sand getting between the body and pop up head, this preventing it from going back down after a watering cycle.


----------



## rjw0283

@DFWdude That's a lot of sand! I think the 2 most helpful tools for a level are,,,
1. Gorilla Cart- I only spread 4 tons of sand, but I did it in about an hour with a gorilla cart, these things are awesome.
2. Landscaping rake- I did not have this at first, I ended up buying one the next day at Lowes. This helps knocks the piles down, which is probably the most labor intensive part. I was doing it in half the time after I got the rake. I wish I would of bought this at the beginning, I was using a garden rake. It sucked! 
After that part is done, just get a drag or something and a lawnmower and just drag it around a few hours. I attempted to use a drag mat, I could pull by hand... that sucks, so I borrowed the neighbors rider.


----------



## kevinwang1219

Hi everyone,

I am looking to level my backyard lawn (roughly 1400 sq ft) and I had 2 landscaping companies come today and said the only way the can level the lawn is to destroy the current bermuda, till the lawn, and redo sod. Now, I told them I have done some research online and we can level with sand, given that you scalp the lawn LOW. They said if you put sand on top of bermuda you will kill the lawn. I didn't believe them but 2 companies said the same thing.

It is Oct and I live in Southern California. Would it be too late the scalp the lawn, level with sand and wait until next year to fertilize and water like crazy? My lawn is VERY bumpy with large divets; i believe the person who did my sod did a terrible job leveling ( I laid down sod about 1.5years ago).

Now, I don't have any equipment so I would rent/buy them to get this project done. Also how much sand would be needed for 1400sq ft?

Thanks everyone.


----------



## gooodawgs

It's too late in the season. Wait til next Summer at the beginning of the fast growing season.


----------



## Redtwin

They are absolutely wrong... you can completely bury bermuda in sand. You don't want to do it in the fall though. Wait until mid- to late-spring, then scalp to the dirt, level, and start watering and fertilizing. While waiting through the winter, you could start reading this thread from page 1. Also check out the Bermuda Bible, the Bermuda Triangle, and most of the bermuda lawn journals.


----------



## rjw0283

@kevinwang1219 What @redtwin said! Also, a lot of your level specific questions can be found on this thread, there's a lot of info in this 68 page thread, you can search it and find a lot of info, such as what equipment needed and how much sand you'd need. 100% you need to read the Bermuda Bible if you haven't. 
Not sure why they'd tell you to destroy the bermuda, do you have a picture you could post? Maybe there's something going on there a level wouldn't fix, but it's probably landscaping companies trying to make a buck.


----------



## LAG Gamecock

They want $$$$


----------



## kevinwang1219

rjw0283 said:


> @kevinwang1219 What @redtwin said! Also, a lot of your level specific questions can be found on this thread, there's a lot of info in this 68 page thread, you can search it and find a lot of info, such as what equipment needed and how much sand you'd need. 100% you need to read the Bermuda Bible if you haven't.
> Not sure why they'd tell you to destroy the bermuda, do you have a picture you could post? Maybe there's something going on there a level wouldn't fix, but it's probably landscaping companies trying to make a buck.


I will take a picture of the lawn in the morning and show you guys. Im sure it salvageable since is Bermuda but I could be wrong.


----------



## gonefishn2010

Wait till next year. I recently posted in my lawn journal about a leveling I did last month. I buried some spots in my Bermuda in an 1 1/2" of sand and it came back. It will not kill it.


----------



## MrMeaner

Redtwin said:


> They are absolutely wrong... you can completely bury bermuda in sand. You don't want to do it in the fall though. Wait until mid- to late-spring, then scalp to the dirt, level, and start watering and fertilizing. While waiting through the winter, you could start reading this thread from page 1. Also check out the Bermuda Bible, the Bermuda Triangle, and most of the bermuda lawn journals.


+1 - @Redtwin is absolutely correct. Those landscapers are full of bull butter. I buried Bermuda grass under 3"-6" of topsoil to fix a drainage area issue where I had a large shop built in my back yard. Had the intention of having to re-sod the area...but by the time the landscaper I hired to fix the drainage area build the shop got around to re-sodding the area(couple months) it had grown back through and spread to the area by 90% and didnt had to red-sod at all.


----------



## rehcram

Hello all

Greetings from South Africa (home of Bermuda Grass?). I have no clue but have enjoyed reading this thread. I hope these questions have not been addressed before - I might well have missed something in the 68 pages, apologies if so.

I had new lawn laid (Tiff Sport) a little over 3 months ago. It is growing well now, but has a fair amount (c. 5%) of dead patches where I was a little too enthusiastic with the Roundup (trying to eliminate remnants of Kikuyu lawn). Should I wait until full coverage or could I try a round of levelling now?

Ideally I'd like to do an aggressive level just before going away for December (our summer) holidays and let it grow back undisturbed over the following 3 weeks. I know to roughly aim for 1'' of water a week normally, but should I set my irrigation to water more regularly while away to encourage growth? Nobody will be monitoring it - is there a risk of the sand getting too hot if I water 1x a week? (Temps will be low to mid 80s in general). Will I risk a weed infestation if I water too much?

Thoughts abs advice very welcome.

All the best
Matt


----------



## gobama84

kevinwang1219 said:


> rjw0283 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @kevinwang1219 What @redtwin said! Also, a lot of your level specific questions can be found on this thread, there's a lot of info in this 68 page thread, you can search it and find a lot of info, such as what equipment needed and how much sand you'd need. 100% you need to read the Bermuda Bible if you haven't.
> Not sure why they'd tell you to destroy the bermuda, do you have a picture you could post? Maybe there's something going on there a level wouldn't fix, but it's probably landscaping companies trying to make a buck.
> 
> 
> 
> I will take a picture of the lawn in the morning and show you guys. Im sure it salvageable since is Bermuda but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

Did I miss your picture?


----------



## jpos34

This is my first year reel mowing and was able to scalp to nearly dirt this year. Got a little over an inch of rain today and got these large puddles from low spots. Planning on sand leveling this year. Will that help to alleviate this issue?


----------



## FATC1TY

That will help with the puddles, it may not help with moving the water. It'll just spread it out or move the water else where once it can't hold anymore.

Might want to look into some wetting agents and see if those assist as well.


----------



## jpos34

Thanks @FATC1TY any certain one you have experience with or would recommend?


----------



## FATC1TY

jpos34 said:


> Thanks @FATC1TY any certain one you have experience with or would recommend?


I just got set up and applied some Tournament Ready from Underhill.

Haven't had a ton of rain, but I have noticed a different in any pooling or standing water. I notice it more when irrigating the yard as I don't see any run off.


----------



## lvlikeyv

jpos34 said:


> Thanks @FATC1TY any certain one you have experience with or would recommend?


Penterra is one that floats around on this forum a bit.

I've used it. Haven't seen dramatic results, but definitely noticeable. 
Some on here have reported amazing results, so it may be dependent on your area. 
https://geoponicscorp.com/shop/wetting-agents/6-penterra


----------



## Saints

lvlikeyv said:


> jpos34 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks @FATC1TY any certain one you have experience with or would recommend?
> 
> 
> 
> Penterra is one that floats around on this forum a bit.
> 
> I've used it. Haven't seen dramatic results, but definitely noticeable.
> Some on here have reported amazing results, so it may be dependent on your area.
> https://geoponicscorp.com/shop/wetting-agents/6-penterra
Click to expand...

Is that the same thing as hydretain?


----------



## Philly_Gunner

Betterthanmyneighbor said:


> I just did a full reno and tried to really focus on starting off right. I guess time will tell lol.. grass is about 12 days old.


Heck yeah, that looks awesome!!


----------



## lvlikeyv

Saints said:


> Is that the same thing as hydretain?


It doesn't appear so. Below is a quote from the Hydretain site. 
Penterra is classified as a wetting agent. Looks like Hydretain isn't.
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in this field, just posted info that I've seen. 
But, I would think if moving water is your main goal, then a wetting agent would be the better choice.

"No. Wetting agents reduce the surface tension of water, which helps water enter hydrophobic soils more easily. They impact the movement of liquid water down to and throughout the soil. Hydretain is unique in its ability to impact the movement of moisture vapor (the gas form of water) as it moves back up through the soil where it would normally be lost to evaporation. Hydretain attracts soil moisture vapor and converts it back into plant usable water droplets - reducing evaporative loss and making more water available to plant roots. Superabsorbent polymers or hydrogels are similar to the polymers used in baby diapers. They absorb and store liquid water. In most cases, superabsorbent polymers must be incorporated into the root zone, making them difficult to use on established lawns and plants."


----------



## Redtwin

Yeah, I wouldn't think Hydretain would help move water along in the soil. From what I understand, it will actually pull moisture out of the air and make it more available to the turf. It doesn't break any water tension or facilitate water flow. Like @lvlikeyv though, I am far from being an expert on the matter.


----------



## bushwacked

Ware said:


>


Where did you get this? Is that ... the below?

https://www.amazon.com/Yard-Tuff-YTF-53HPDM-Drag-Mat/dp/B014SY8AMS/ref=pd_bxgy_2/147-4197979-2832646?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B014SY8AMS&pd_rd_r=f7a80d7e-2dc4-4c7e-a9e8-660647bd63bc&pd_rd_w=iRS6g&pd_rd_wg=R6d1b&pf_rd_p=f325d01c-4658-4593-be83-3e12ca663f0e&pf_rd_r=FMGCE2VMV1V21A7YMQKY&psc=1&refRID=FMGCE2VMV1V21A7YMQKY

Would the above work? Or would it pull grass up?


----------



## Ware

bushwacked said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get this? Is that ... the below?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Yard-Tuff-YTF-53HPDM-Drag-Mat/dp/B014SY8AMS/ref=pd_bxgy_2/147-4197979-2832646?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B014SY8AMS&pd_rd_r=f7a80d7e-2dc4-4c7e-a9e8-660647bd63bc&pd_rd_w=iRS6g&pd_rd_wg=R6d1b&pf_rd_p=f325d01c-4658-4593-be83-3e12ca663f0e&pf_rd_r=FMGCE2VMV1V21A7YMQKY&psc=1&refRID=FMGCE2VMV1V21A7YMQKY
> 
> Would the above work? Or would it pull grass up?
Click to expand...

I bought mine on Amazon. Same style - different size. They are available in a variety of sizes.

As for pulling the grass up, they'll snag a few sprigs if you haven't scalped super low, but otherwise they work really well for smoothing the sand.


----------



## Ware

bushwacked said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get this? Is that ... the below?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Yard-Tuff-YTF-53HPDM-Drag-Mat/dp/B014SY8AMS/ref=pd_bxgy_2/147-4197979-2832646?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B014SY8AMS&pd_rd_r=f7a80d7e-2dc4-4c7e-a9e8-660647bd63bc&pd_rd_w=iRS6g&pd_rd_wg=R6d1b&pf_rd_p=f325d01c-4658-4593-be83-3e12ca663f0e&pf_rd_r=FMGCE2VMV1V21A7YMQKY&psc=1&refRID=FMGCE2VMV1V21A7YMQKY
> 
> Would the above work? Or would it pull grass up?
Click to expand...

I bought mine on Amazon. Same style - different size. They are available in a variety of sizes.

As for pulling the grass up, they'll snag a few sprigs if you haven't scalped super low, but otherwise they work really well for smoothing the sand.


----------



## rbvar

Ok, how crazy would it be to try using an upsidedown wire shelf (like from one of these https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-Chrome-6-Tier-Heavy-Duty-Metal-Wire-Shelving-Unit-48-in-W-x-72-in-H-x-18-in-D-HD18481302PS-1/203846551) and some rope as a manual drag mat for spot leveling?


----------



## bushwacked

Ware said:


> bushwacked said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get this? Is that ... the below?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Yard-Tuff-YTF-53HPDM-Drag-Mat/dp/B014SY8AMS/ref=pd_bxgy_2/147-4197979-2832646?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B014SY8AMS&pd_rd_r=f7a80d7e-2dc4-4c7e-a9e8-660647bd63bc&pd_rd_w=iRS6g&pd_rd_wg=R6d1b&pf_rd_p=f325d01c-4658-4593-be83-3e12ca663f0e&pf_rd_r=FMGCE2VMV1V21A7YMQKY&psc=1&refRID=FMGCE2VMV1V21A7YMQKY
> 
> Would the above work? Or would it pull grass up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bought mine on Amazon. Same style - different size. They are available in a variety of sizes.
> 
> As for pulling the grass up, they'll snag a few sprigs if you haven't scalped super low, but otherwise they work really well for smoothing the sand.
Click to expand...

Sounds good!!

I think I will grab this one: https://www.amazon.com/All-Steel-Drag-Mat-6W/dp/B000YPOID6/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=yard+tuff+drag+mat&qid=1616612318&sr=8-7

I figure a 6' W x 3'L should do the trick ...


----------



## Jacob_S

bushwacked said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bushwacked said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get this? Is that ... the below?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Yard-Tuff-YTF-53HPDM-Drag-Mat/dp/B014SY8AMS/ref=pd_bxgy_2/147-4197979-2832646?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B014SY8AMS&pd_rd_r=f7a80d7e-2dc4-4c7e-a9e8-660647bd63bc&pd_rd_w=iRS6g&pd_rd_wg=R6d1b&pf_rd_p=f325d01c-4658-4593-be83-3e12ca663f0e&pf_rd_r=FMGCE2VMV1V21A7YMQKY&psc=1&refRID=FMGCE2VMV1V21A7YMQKY
> 
> Would the above work? Or would it pull grass up?
> 
> 
> 
> I bought mine on Amazon. Same style - different size. They are available in a variety of sizes.
> 
> As for pulling the grass up, they'll snag a few sprigs if you haven't scalped super low, but otherwise they work really well for smoothing the sand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds good!!
> 
> I think I will grab this one: https://www.amazon.com/All-Steel-Drag-Mat-6W/dp/B000YPOID6/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=yard+tuff+drag+mat&qid=1616612318&sr=8-7
> 
> I figure a 6' W x 3'L should do the trick ...
Click to expand...

I'd advise a narrower one, I bought a 4.5'x5' and proceeded to pull it manually when I did my yard a couple years ago. I plan to buy a 3x3 for the next time. These things are heavier than you'd think and the width made it somewhat difficult to maneuver around.


----------



## bushwacked

Jacob_S said:


> bushwacked said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bought mine on Amazon. Same style - different size. They are available in a variety of sizes.
> 
> As for pulling the grass up, they'll snag a few sprigs if you haven't scalped super low, but otherwise they work really well for smoothing the sand.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds good!!
> 
> I think I will grab this one: https://www.amazon.com/All-Steel-Drag-Mat-6W/dp/B000YPOID6/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=yard+tuff+drag+mat&qid=1616612318&sr=8-7
> 
> I figure a 6' W x 3'L should do the trick ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'd advise a narrower one, I bought a 4.5'x5' and proceeded to pull it manually when I did my yard a couple years ago. I plan to buy a 3x3 for the next time. These things are heavier than you'd think and the width made it somewhat difficult to maneuver around.
Click to expand...

I am planning on barrowing a golf cart to pull it behind ... would you still get a smaller one if that is the case?


----------



## Jacob_S

bushwacked said:


> I am planning on barrowing a golf cart to pull it behind ... would you still get a smaller one if that is the case?


Naw, larger should work fine in that case. I had no way to pull other than my own two feet, also has some "tight" turns to make that I would have appreciated a smaller one. But I will keep my 4.5x5 for future larger projects.


----------



## Deltahedge

I just got quoted $36/ton for USGA sand in the Houston area. I'm looking to buy about 20 tons for a leveling project in May. They said their "Top Dressing" sand is a finer material than their "USGA Spec" and the USGA spec is about $6/ton premium to the Top Dressing sand. I still think I am going to go with the USGA stuff for my first leveling project.

Now I am trying to find an ECO 250 or similar spreader for rental in my area.


----------



## bushwacked

Just called my supplier ...

I can get volleyball sand (washed and screened) for $40/yard. I need about 5 yards total, 2 in front and 3 in back so that doesn't seem like a terrible price ...

Also, pulled the trigger on this today: https://www.amazon.com/All-Steel-Drag-Mat-6W/dp/B000YPOID6/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=yard+tuff+drag+mat&qid=1616612318&sr=8-7

Will attach it to my buddy's golf cart and drag it around


----------



## Redtwin

rbvar said:


> Ok, how crazy would it be to try using an upsidedown wire shelf (like from one of these https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-Chrome-6-Tier-Heavy-Duty-Metal-Wire-Shelving-Unit-48-in-W-x-72-in-H-x-18-in-D-HD18481302PS-1/203846551) and some rope as a manual drag mat for spot leveling?


I did this and it works very well.


----------



## bushwacked

well, was going to order sand, but the area they keep it all in is flooded with our crazy rain we have gotten lately. So they said it would be about 2 weeks before they can get to it again. yaaaaaay


----------



## jpos34

Redtwin said:


> rbvar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, how crazy would it be to try using an upsidedown wire shelf (like from one of these https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-Chrome-6-Tier-Heavy-Duty-Metal-Wire-Shelving-Unit-48-in-W-x-72-in-H-x-18-in-D-HD18481302PS-1/203846551) and some rope as a manual drag mat for spot leveling?
> 
> 
> 
> I did this and it works very well.
Click to expand...

Did you add weight to it?


----------



## Redtwin

jpos34 said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rbvar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, how crazy would it be to try using an upsidedown wire shelf (like from one of these https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-Chrome-6-Tier-Heavy-Duty-Metal-Wire-Shelving-Unit-48-in-W-x-72-in-H-x-18-in-D-HD18481302PS-1/203846551) and some rope as a manual drag mat for spot leveling?
> 
> 
> 
> I did this and it works very well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you add weight to it?
Click to expand...

I tried adding some bricks but it seemed to do just fine running it over the sand. I had some issues getting it balanced when I added the bricks. I'll post a photo shortly.


----------



## jpos34

Ok great trying to decide if im going to build a @wardconnor drag or just use something that I already have like the wire shelf.


----------



## Lsuwhodat

Jacob_S said:


> bushwacked said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am planning on barrowing a golf cart to pull it behind ... would you still get a smaller one if that is the case?
> 
> 
> 
> Naw, larger should work fine in that case. I had no way to pull other than my own two feet, also has some "tight" turns to make that I would have appreciated a smaller one. But I will keep my 4.5x5 for future larger projects.
Click to expand...

If you ever want to rent it out let me know lol.


----------



## Redtwin

Sorry for the delay. Here is what I have. The shelving unit is 6' while the angle metal is 8'. You could easily drag the shelf by hand but I would drag angle metal one by hand over anything more than 2K sf.


----------



## jpos34

Redtwin said:


> Sorry for the delay. Here is what I have. The shelving unit is 6' while the angle metal is 8'. You could easily drag the shelf by hand but I would drag angle metal one by hand over anything more than 2K sf.


Does the angle metal one weigh enough or did you have to add weight? Also is it just bolted together, and would the bolts on bottom side be counter productive to the leveling?


----------



## Redtwin

I just bolted it to make sure I liked the layout before welding. It worked just fine so I haven't been motivated to weld it. I do get nervous and check the nuts and bolts often while using it but they have never come loose. It weighs plenty just by itself. I used rounded head bolts and they don't make any noticeable marks in the sand. The shelf does OK as well but is very light and requires more passes. You could put bricks on it to add weight but it was a pain for me to keep it balanced.


----------



## Redtwin

I also have one of the 3X5 drag mats from Amazon but it will pull the sand out of the low spots. I need to rotate it 90 degrees so it stays rigid in that plane.


----------



## Joeeeekkkkk

I plan to level my lawn this season and had a question on rain and potential run off issues. During heavy rain like we've had twice the past few days in metro atlanta I'm seeing a ton of water (mainly from my neighbors downspouts) running across my front yard. Will try to add a pic of two.

How big of a concern would it be to level and then face a heavy rain potentially washing things away? I may look to install a catch basin at some point as leveling will only do so much if anything at all to mitigate the water.


----------



## JayGo

Redtwin said:


> I also have one of the 3X5 drag mats from Amazon but it will pull the sand out of the low spots. I need to rotate it 90 degrees so it stays rigid in that plane.


I bought a 3x5 Yard Tuff off of Amazon. I've used for three levelings. I definitely plan to rotate it, too, for this year's leveling.
Works great, but yes it does tend to pull sand out of some low spots.


----------



## Redtwin

Joeeeekkkkk said:


> I plan to level my lawn this season and had a question on rain and potential run off issues. During heavy rain like we've had twice the past few days in metro atlanta I'm seeing a ton of water (mainly from my neighbors downspouts) running across my front yard. Will try to add a pic of two.
> 
> How big of a concern would it be to level and then face a heavy rain potentially washing things away? I may look to install a catch basin at some point as leveling will only do so much if anything at all to mitigate the water.


It depends on if you are doing a light topdress or a significant level job. A light topdress might stay put but with a level application, you could have some washout. The catch basin would be my choice as well or maybe convince your neighbor to catch his downspouts into a basin.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

Does anyone on here alternate between sand and top dressing? Say every other season? I did a big sand leveling last summer, 24 tons of mason sand. Wondering if I should add some organic mix instead this year. Thoughts?


----------



## Phids

Philly_Gunner said:


> Does anyone on here alternate between sand and top dressing? Say every other season? I did a big sand leveling last summer, 24 tons of mason sand. Wondering if I should add some organic mix instead this year. Thoughts?


I have heard that going back and forth like that will create "layers" in your soil, which is not good. However, I have seen no reliable evidence from anyone that that necessarily happens, or how exactly it would negatively affect a lawn. With that said, because organic matter breaks down over time, I could see how theoretically you may reintroduce unevenness with sand-mix-sand layers.


----------



## Sbcgenii




----------



## Redtwin

I plan to just stick with sand. With proper fertilization and root cycling, you can get plenty of OM in you soil. I wouldn't want to deal with possible settling with OM breaking down in anything other than pure sand.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

Phids said:


> Philly_Gunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone on here alternate between sand and top dressing? Say every other season? I did a big sand leveling last summer, 24 tons of mason sand. Wondering if I should add some organic mix instead this year. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> I have heard that going back and forth like that will create "layers" in your soil, which is not good. However, I have seen no reliable evidence from anyone that that necessarily happens, or how exactly it would negatively affect a lawn. With that said, because organic matter breaks down over time, I could see how theoretically you may reintroduce unevenness with sand-mix-sand layers.
Click to expand...

That would make sense but I've just never really seen anybody speak to the practice of adding OM to the overall soil profile after they've been sand leveling for a few seasons. I will likely also stick to just sand as the finished product I achieved last year was leaps and bounds above any other lawn in my neighborhood.


----------



## bushwacked

Sbcgenii said:


>


they missed the driveway by a couple inches


----------



## Sbcgenii

bushwacked said:


> Sbcgenii said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they missed the driveway by a couple inches
Click to expand...

Already getting a new patio put in. I didn't want to risk having to put a new driveway in this year.


----------



## bushwacked

how much have yalls delivery fees been? Just making sure I dont get a crazy fee if I can avoid it!


----------



## DuncanMcDonuts

I've seen delivery fees between $80 to $150. I was able to find sand from a plant at $12/ton compared to $40/yard that most of the landscaping yards will mark up. Delivery fee is higher coming from the plant than the closer landscapers.


----------



## bushwacked

Mightyquinn said:


> I thought I would start this thread here for people who might have questions and for those of us who have done it in the past can give some pointers. I'll go first as I am sure I will miss some things since it has been quite a few years since I did it.
> 
> 1. You will need some kind of sand, personally I don't think it makes a huge difference on the type of sand as long as it does NOT have any large rocks or pebbles in it that would damage a reel, anything smaller than 1/8"-1/16" should be fine. Whatever you can find around you for the cheapest price will do the job. I just started working in the concrete industry and found out we sell our sand for $40 a ton which is about 2-3 pick up truck loads of sand, you will have to find a way to transport it yourself but it's a viable option. I haven't had the chance to inspect it but it looks like it would do the job and it sits outside all day every day so it may be wet if you just had some rain.
> 
> 2. You will want to mow as low as you can as this will help you find all the low spots and you will use less sand in the process and get better results.
> 
> 3. Find a good drag mat (it's worth the money!) they sell some on Amazon, just make sure you get one that fits your lawn and that you have the equipment (tractor, riding lawn mower, ATV....) to pull it. If you have a small lawn you may be able to get away with pulling it yourself. This is something I wish I had invested in when I did mine as I went cheap and tried to make my own. After actually purchasing a real one and using it this year, it was night and day between the performance.
> 
> 4. You will need about 1 yard of sand per 1K of lawn depending on how bad your lawn is. You can adjust your amount up or down depending on the severity of the job at hand.
> 
> 5. You will want to lay down fertilizer after you are done dragging the lawn so as not to "collect" it all in one spot when you do turns.
> 
> 6. Water, Water, Water. Irrigation or a good rainfall will help settle the sand down into the canopy and it will also wash it down into the low spots too. It's not a bad idea to get everything good and level and the apply water to the lawn and see if there are any spots you need to touch up or not. You will also need to water often for the first week or so to help the grass grow up through the sand and start filling in.
> 
> 7. Aerate, I think this is a good step to do right before you level as it will create channels for water and nutrients to get down into the root zone and it should help "lock" everything together too. This is another step I wish I had done when I did my lawn.
> 
> Well that's it for now but if I think of anything else I will be sure to come back and add it to the thread. Please feel free to chime in with ANY and ALL questions and things you might have learned during your project.


Since this is like 5 years old ... was curious if you still follow all of this? I am prepping to level my zoysia/bermuda ... I want to aerate everything before the level as well.

so basically steps:
- aerate (few days or a week before, just due to timing) planning to rent this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/rental/Classen-Aerator-CA-18HD/310643917
- scalp
- sand level (got a 6x4 mat off amazon)
- water
- fertilizer
- water

sound about right?


----------



## corneliani

bushwacked said:


> Since this is like 5 years old ... was curious if you still follow all of this? I am prepping to level my zoysia/bermuda ... I want to aerate everything before the level as well.
> 
> so basically steps:
> - aerate (few days or a week before, just due to timing) planning to rent this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/rental/Classen-Aerator-CA-18HD/310643917
> - scalp
> - sand level (got a 6x4 mat off amazon)
> - water
> - fertilizer
> - water
> 
> sound about right?


Liquid fertilizer would be nice to use here, after the scalp & aeration. That should give it some instant foliar boost to work its way up through that sand layer.


----------



## bushwacked

corneliani said:


> bushwacked said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is like 5 years old ... was curious if you still follow all of this? I am prepping to level my zoysia/bermuda ... I want to aerate everything before the level as well.
> 
> so basically steps:
> - aerate (few days or a week before, just due to timing) planning to rent this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/rental/Classen-Aerator-CA-18HD/310643917
> - scalp
> - sand level (got a 6x4 mat off amazon)
> - water
> - fertilizer
> - water
> 
> sound about right?
> 
> 
> 
> Liquid fertilizer would be nice to use here, after the scalp & aeration. That should give it some instant foliar boost to work its way up through that sand layer.
Click to expand...

Never used any liquid before ... recommendations on brands?


----------



## Sbcgenii

Sbcgenii said:


> bushwacked said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbcgenii said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they missed the driveway by a couple inches
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Already getting a new patio put in. I didn't want to risk having to put a new driveway in this year.
Click to expand...

FYI I will risk the driveway next year.


----------



## Mightyquinn

corneliani said:


> bushwacked said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is like 5 years old ... was curious if you still follow all of this? I am prepping to level my zoysia/bermuda ... I want to aerate everything before the level as well.
> 
> so basically steps:
> - aerate (few days or a week before, just due to timing) planning to rent this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/rental/Classen-Aerator-CA-18HD/310643917
> - scalp
> - sand level (got a 6x4 mat off amazon)
> - water
> - fertilizer
> - water
> 
> sound about right?
> 
> 
> 
> Liquid fertilizer would be nice to use here, after the scalp & aeration. That should give it some instant foliar boost to work its way up through that sand layer.
Click to expand...

Depending on how low you scalp and how much green leaf material foliar application my not be best. I would just use some inexpensive fertilizer like 10-10-10 or something depending on what you soil needs as most of it will get used up or washed away from all the watering.


----------



## bushwacked

Mightyquinn said:


> corneliani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bushwacked said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since this is like 5 years old ... was curious if you still follow all of this? I am prepping to level my zoysia/bermuda ... I want to aerate everything before the level as well.
> 
> so basically steps:
> - aerate (few days or a week before, just due to timing) planning to rent this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/rental/Classen-Aerator-CA-18HD/310643917
> - scalp
> - sand level (got a 6x4 mat off amazon)
> - water
> - fertilizer
> - water
> 
> sound about right?
> 
> 
> 
> Liquid fertilizer would be nice to use here, after the scalp & aeration. That should give it some instant foliar boost to work its way up through that sand layer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Depending on how low you scalp and how much green leaf material foliar application my not be best. I would just use some inexpensive fertilizer like 10-10-10 or something depending on what you soil needs as most of it will get used up or washed away from all the watering.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

The lowest I can scalp is 1 1/8 with my regular mower ...


----------



## Sbcgenii

bushwacked said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> corneliani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Liquid fertilizer would be nice to use here, after the scalp & aeration. That should give it some instant foliar boost to work its way up through that sand layer.
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on how low you scalp and how much green leaf material foliar application my not be best. I would just use some inexpensive fertilizer like 10-10-10 or something depending on what you soil needs as most of it will get used up or washed away from all the watering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> The lowest I can scalp is 1 1/8 with my regular mower ...
Click to expand...

 I think the point he was making was if you scalp and remove a bunch of leaf material a foliar fert app wouldn't work that great.


----------



## corneliani

How low do y'all scalp to not have any leaf material left ?? I go down to 3/8" and still see green! 
Just to clarify - my point is that a liquid application is a faster, more thorough, and more efficient distribution method vs granular, especially at this point when the plant and soil has been beaten to shreds. It was just an academic argument for when/if both methods are an option.


----------



## Kdaves12

Has anyone ordered 100% masonry sand and had debris trouble?
My 80/20 mix was a disappointment to say the least...




As you can see on the sidewalk and driveway, that's the debris I had to put in extra time to remove off the yard.


----------



## Mightyquinn

I guess their version of an 80/20 mix is 80% sand and 20% debris 

All the masonry sand I have ever gotten was 100% sand. That's why it is sometimes suggested to go get eyes on what you are buying before delivery as this happens occasionally to some members.


----------



## DFWLawnNut

Kdaves12 said:


> Has anyone ordered 100% masonry sand and had debris trouble?
> My 80/20 mix was a disappointment to say the least...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see on the sidewalk and driveway, that's the debris I had to put in extra time to remove off the yard.


Oof, thats some huge rocks in that. My reel would be destroyed by that stuff. 80% sand 20% junk for sure. I have a crushed granite path next to my side yard and my daughter (3) likes to dig in it and I get to pick out little surprises in that area every mow because she's stuck to my hip anytime Im home.


----------



## PGunn

Is 1 cubic yard per 1k/sqft a safe assumption to determine quantity needed?


----------



## bushwacked

PGunn said:


> Is 1 cubic yard per 1k/sqft a safe assumption to determine quantity needed?


From everything I have seen.. yes.

1 yard / 1 ton for 1k sq ft


----------



## Redtwin

PGunn said:


> Is 1 cubic yard per 1k/sqft a safe assumption to determine quantity needed?


If it's your first time leveling, I would go 1.5 to 2 yards per 1000sf. Each time you level it should become less and less per 1000sf.


----------



## Sbcgenii

Redtwin said:


> PGunn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is 1 cubic yard per 1k/sqft a safe assumption to determine quantity needed?
> 
> 
> 
> If it's your first time leveling, I would go 1.5 to 2 yards per 1000sf. Each time you level it should become less and less per 1000sf.
Click to expand...

This is probably good advise. I have about 7k and got 10yards. Did the front and about 50% of my back and ran out. My yard was pretty bad though.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

Kdaves12 said:


> Has anyone ordered 100% masonry sand and had debris trouble?
> My 80/20 mix was a disappointment to say the least...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see on the sidewalk and driveway, that's the debris I had to put in extra time to remove off the yard.


I would be taking that picture to the business and getting some money back. Especially if they advertised it as screened. That's ridiculous.


----------



## cldrunner

Kdaves12 said:


> Has anyone ordered 100% masonry sand and had debris trouble?
> My 80/20 mix was a disappointment to say the least...


That looks more like "Select Fill". I would not level with anything except 100% masonry sand. Even top soil will have some dirt clods in the mix.


----------



## Kdaves12

Lesson learned. It's too much of a project to not have the right material. Looks like another year of picking out rocks...
I have seen multiple *Ego *owners purchase the bristle sweeper attachment to get the unwanted material once leveled. I'm considering doing that.



Mightyquinn said:


> All the masonry sand I have ever gotten was 100% sand. That's why it is sometimes suggested to go get eyes on what you are buying before delivery as this happens occasionally to some members.


----------



## Kdaves12

DFWLawnNut said:


> Kdaves12 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone ordered 100% masonry sand and had debris trouble?
> My 80/20 mix was a disappointment to say the least...
> 
> 
> As you can see on the sidewalk and driveway, that's the debris I had to put in extra time to remove off the yard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oof, thats some huge rocks in that. My reel would be destroyed by that stuff. 80% sand 20% junk for sure. I have a crushed granite path next to my side yard and my daughter (3) likes to dig in it and I get to pick out little surprises in that area every mow because she's stuck to my hip anytime Im home.
Click to expand...

This scenario is a huge reason why I haven't jumped on the reel wagon yet; I went with the Toro Pro Stripe 560 instead, but I still cringe when a huge rock gets sucked up...


----------



## FATC1TY

If that's not a true example of just using sand when all you are doing in leveling and capping the yard for using a reel. I guess I could see a rotary being acceptable, but what little OM you get from the topsoil, there's not much benefit considering how thin you are spreading it anyways.


----------



## bushwacked

Kdaves12 said:


> This scenario is a huge reason why I haven't jumped on the reel wagon yet; I went with the Toro Pro Stripe 560 instead, but I still cringe when a huge rock gets sucked up...


Wow! I had no idea a regular mower like that existed! How are you liking it?


----------



## Kdaves12

bushwacked said:


> Kdaves12 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This scenario is a huge reason why I haven't jumped on the reel wagon yet; I went with the Toro Pro Stripe 560 instead, but I still cringe when a huge rock gets sucked up...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow! I had no idea a regular mower like that existed! How are you liking it?
Click to expand...

I haven't had it during peak season yet, but so far, huge fan.


----------



## BU Bear

Well, looks like I'm doing this. Just ordered 11 tons to be delivered Friday morning, is it weird that my back started aching the second I got off the phone with the sand and gravel people?


----------



## Ware

BU Bear said:


> Well, looks like I'm doing this. Just ordered 11 tons to be delivered Friday morning, is it weird that my back started aching the second I got off the phone with the sand and gravel people?


 :lol:

You won't regret it when your lawn is super smooth. :thumbup:


----------



## Redtwin

BU Bear said:


> Well, looks like I'm doing this. Just ordered 11 tons to be delivered Friday morning, is it weird that my back started aching the second I got off the phone with the sand and gravel people?


My back started aching just reading your entry.


----------



## wiseowl

After the sand leveling and fert how long did you guys wait on your pgr apps? Our weather has been all over the place with upper 80's one day to 69 the next so the bermuda has filled in but not as much as if we had a normal spring.

I'm at day 24 of my scalp,fert and level, put down 1lb per K and the seed heads are just now coming up. Was hoping to have the pgr before that happened but again, the weather slowed the bermuda recovery a bit and I didn't want to slow down the fill in.

Worst spot in the yard. Do I PGR or wait half way through my next fert app ?


----------



## ag_fishing

Put down 3 yards of topsoil, got the first pallet put down, and go back in the morning to the sod farm to get the second pallet of celebration Bermuda. It's amazing how nice actual sod grass looks.


----------



## SGrabs33

@wiseowl your going to want and wait until the lawn is close to where you want it for the season before PGR. I'd say wait for sure if you can still see that much sand. I'm in NC and usually don't spray until later may


----------



## Mightyquinn

SGrabs33 said:


> @wiseowl your going to want and wait until the lawn is close to where you want it for the season before PGR. I'd say wait for sure if you can still see that much sand. I'm in NC and usually don't spray until later may


+1 I usually wait until I am having to mow more than once a week before I apply my first app of PGR.


----------



## Sbcgenii

wiseowl said:


> After the sand leveling and fert how long did you guys wait on your pgr apps? Our weather has been all over the place with upper 80's one day to 69 the next so the bermuda has filled in but not as much as if we had a normal spring.
> 
> I'm at day 24 of my scalp,fert and level, put down 1lb per K and the seed heads are just now coming up. Was hoping to have the pgr before that happened but again, the weather slowed the bermuda recovery a bit and I didn't want to slow down the fill in.
> 
> Worst spot in the yard. Do I PGR or wait half way through my next fert app ?


I think you should be a hero and spray PGR on your lawn and then half of that section and let us know what happens. I leveled and then used PGR on my back yard to slow the grass down that was already popping through. It's hard for me to say what's better because I was low on sand when i leveled the back and not the same micro climate. That area would be perfect to test how PGR effects fill in if you sprayed half of it.


----------



## Sbcgenii

I was a little worried right after I sprayed it because I knew we had some cold days coming up but it seems to be doing fine. PGR lasts a really long time at these temps lol.


----------



## BU Bear

Well I'm in this now if I wasn't before! Original plan was to aerate Saturday, but we're getting about an inch of rain today so everything got pushed back. New plan is to let it dry out Saturday, aerate Sunday morning, start distributing the sand Sunday afternoon, then finish up Monday. Normal people use vacation days to spread sand on their lawns, right?



Hopefully the tarp keeps it dryish.


----------



## undiesthegreat

I've got some Sandy Loam being delivered on Monday to do the same thing on my vacation! How many yards did you go with?


----------



## BU Bear

undiesthegreat said:


> I've got some Sandy Loam being delivered on Monday to do the same thing on my vacation! How many yards did you go with?


I ordered 11 tons for right at 10,000 square feet, so I'll probably be short some, but they said they'd have to do two deliveries if I went up much more. So I figure I'll do the front (3,500 sqft) and the worst parts of the back now and will order more in the summer if needed.


----------



## undiesthegreat

BU Bear said:


> undiesthegreat said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got some Sandy Loam being delivered on Monday to do the same thing on my vacation! How many yards did you go with?
> 
> 
> 
> I ordered 11 tons for right at 10,000 square feet, so I'll probably be short some, but they said they'd have to do two deliveries if I went up much more. So I figure I'll do the front (3,500 sqft) and the worst parts of the back now and will order more in the summer if needed.
Click to expand...

Awesome. Best of luck to you. 5 yards for ~5,000 square feet here. My back is already feeling it.


----------



## JOrasanu

So I just leveled my back 2600 sq ft. How often are y'all watering? Should i do it every day or let the sand dry in between?


----------



## SGrabs33

JOrasanu said:


> So I just leveled my back 2600 sq ft. How often are y'all watering? Should i do it every day or let the sand dry in between?


You can let it dry some if you want to try and brush it down further.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

I've started using a cocoa drag mag for after I've run my regular drag. It's basically a big push broom I can pull behind my mower and really helps settle everything into the canopy.


----------



## Groundskeeper Willie

Are rollers like these useful for smoothing a newly sanded lawn? I want to sand the Bermuda patch, but it's on a steep incline. After scalping and rains, debris and dirt particles washed down and formed wavy ridges across the slope. At .5 in or .625 HOC these ridges even though small would represent a significant variation to the length of grass blade. The ground is uneven enough without this making it worse. A couple of times I tried to knock the lines down with a pushbroom, before a lot of grass had a chance to grow up through them and anchor them permanently. As the grass started to come up, the broom became pretty useless at redistributing the material. I'm thinking that sand applied to level the ground will form similar ridges, and the grass will make these micro variations permanent. The roller might force the sand to spread and flatten, but it might also be too much pressure on the grass?


----------



## Mightyquinn

From my experience, those hand/water filled rollers are worthless and are really only good for rolling new sod or seed to get good soil contact. They really won't do anything as far as compacting soil. You would need an asphalt roller to accomplish that and if your slope is as bad as you say it is then that may not be an option either. You might need to go with less sand more often to smooth things out.


----------



## BU Bear

Still have some more work to do in the front, but handled the majority of it today. I ended up working on the back more than the front as it really needed the majority of the work. I have about .5-1 ton left to spread over the front/vanity strip in any trouble areas that pop up after l water. I'll have to repair the drip line in the vanity strip in a few places where the aerator hit it.


----------



## Sbcgenii

BU Bear said:


> Still have some more work to do in the front, but handled the majority of it today. I ended up working on the back more than the front as it really needed the majority of the work. I have about .5-1 ton left to spread over the front/vanity strip in any trouble areas that pop up after l water. I'll have to repair the drip line in the vanity strip in a few places where the aerator hit it.


Looks great :thumbup:


----------



## BU Bear

Thank you! My back isn't hurting as much as I figured it would, but I attribute that to the massive help from my wife's family. Using a 4wheeler almost made it fun - almost.


----------



## wiseowl

Sbcgenii said:


> wiseowl said:
> 
> 
> 
> After the sand leveling and fert how long did you guys wait on your pgr apps? Our weather has been all over the place with upper 80's one day to 69 the next so the bermuda has filled in but not as much as if we had a normal spring.
> 
> I'm at day 24 of my scalp,fert and level, put down 1lb per K and the seed heads are just now coming up. Was hoping to have the pgr before that happened but again, the weather slowed the bermuda recovery a bit and I didn't want to slow down the fill in.
> 
> Worst spot in the yard. Do I PGR or wait half way through my next fert app ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should be a hero and spray PGR on your lawn and then half of that section and let us know what happens. I leveled and then used PGR on my back yard to slow the grass down that was already popping through. It's hard for me to say what's better because I was low on sand when i leveled the back and not the same micro climate. That area would be perfect to test how PGR effects fill in if you sprayed half of it.
Click to expand...

I chickened out, I went with 1.5N per 1K and will see what mid-may brings me, we just got rain this morning too. I think this is going to make out for a hot summer here in socal. More than likely will have pgr down 5/15, seed heads galore right now, almost hurts to walk on the grass barefoot lol


----------



## adidasUNT8

question... My yard is starting to fill in decently, and is greened up fully (unlike all my neighbors). We are wanting to do another level this year within the next couple of weeks. I have been spraying urea with nitrogen levels between .125-.25lb weekly. Started with .25 the first couple weeks and then .125 the last couple of weeks. I have been maintaining at .5". My thought process was to spray .25lb nitrogen the evening before the leveling. The next morning I would scalp it down to around .2" or so and then we would complete the leveling project and water that evening. Would this be a good way to encourage the growth through the sand canopy or would watering in a granular after leveling be better?


----------



## Mightyquinn

I don't think you could go wrong either way, just go with whatever is easiest for you.


----------



## adidasUNT8

Mightyquinn said:


> I don't think you could go wrong either way, just go with whatever is easiest for you.


Thank you for the reply bud. I'm not well versed on how the plant absorbs and uses nitrogen throughout the grass foliar vs granular. I know it's more of an immediate uptake with foliar, but when you cut off 90 of the blade after application, the rest of the grass/roots still have enough stored nitrogen to help grow through the same?


----------



## Tmank87

adidasUNT8 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you could go wrong either way, just go with whatever is easiest for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the reply bud. I'm not well versed on how the plant absorbs and uses nitrogen throughout the grass foliar vs granular. I know it's more of an immediate uptake with foliar, but when you cut off 90 of the blade after application, the rest of the grass/roots still have enough stored nitrogen to help grow through the same?
Click to expand...

Do both 👍


----------



## rjw0283

I scalped the day prior and sprayed Urea the morning I leveled. I went high on the nitrogen. Due to all the watering I was about to do.


----------



## ADanto6840

Two questions, if I may:


 How soon after laying sod (TifTuf) can I level with sand? 
 Can I do anything to 'speed it up'/to be able to level sooner -- ie fertilizer, slow-release nitrogen, etc...?

Apologies in advance is this is covered in the prior 143 pages -- I'm guessing it probably is. I've read ~30% of the pages but admittedly haven't read them all. =D


----------



## Mightyquinn

adidasUNT8 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you could go wrong either way, just go with whatever is easiest for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the reply bud. I'm not well versed on how the plant absorbs and uses nitrogen throughout the grass foliar vs granular. I know it's more of an immediate uptake with foliar, but when you cut off 90 of the blade after application, the rest of the grass/roots still have enough stored nitrogen to help grow through the same?
Click to expand...

The spray Nitrogen will just work it's way down into the soil where the roots can absorb it. It would be no different than if you applied 46-0-0 in the granular form and watered it in. It will instantly dissolve and be carried down to the roots once it gets irrigation or rain.


----------



## adidasUNT8

Mightyquinn said:


> adidasUNT8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you could go wrong either way, just go with whatever is easiest for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the reply bud. I'm not well versed on how the plant absorbs and uses nitrogen throughout the grass foliar vs granular. I know it's more of an immediate uptake with foliar, but when you cut off 90 of the blade after application, the rest of the grass/roots still have enough stored nitrogen to help grow through the same?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The spray Nitrogen will just work it's way down into the soil where the roots can absorb it. It would be no different than if you applied 46-0-0 in the granular form and watered it in. It will instantly dissolve and be carried down to the roots once it gets irrigation or rain.
Click to expand...

Music to my ears. Thank you MQ


----------



## JOrasanu

I'm on day 11 and I'm getting impatient lol I want a mow. 
Day 1: 




Day 11:







[/url]


----------



## Redtwin

@ADanto6840, if your TifTuf has solidly rooted and growing strong you can get started leveling it. .25lb N would help as well. You can put it down before or after the sand but my preference is always before.


----------



## JOrasanu

Is this a problem I should be worried about or is this common when it's rained a lot and i just leveled?


----------



## Twodollarblue

JOrasanu said:


> Is this a problem I should be worried about or is this common when it's rained a lot and i just leveled?


Based on what I've seen with other's Bermuda you will be fine. Give it a month and it will be looking good. If it was zoysia you would be waiting much longer.


----------



## JOrasanu

Twodollarblue said:


> JOrasanu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a problem I should be worried about or is this common when it's rained a lot and i just leveled?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Based on what I've seen with other's Bermuda you will be fine. Give it a month and it will be looking good. If it was zoysia you would be waiting much longer.
Click to expand...

Ok cool! I'm pretty impatient because parts of the lawn are tall and have seed heads and others are still under sand lol i just wasn't to mow 😭


----------



## Twodollarblue

@JOrasanu After I scalp and level, I keep mowing at my desired height of cut regardless of bare spots.


----------



## ADanto6840

Thankyou @Redtwin!

Sounds like I should *probably* wait until I've gotten in at least 1 mow in, and then I'll probably go ahead and do at least _some_ sand-leveling, maybe a bit under 1-ton/1k-sqft, until it's really growing / _super_ strong growth. At least that's the gist I'm getting. I went ahead and put down some Milorganite & made some sprinkler head adjustments (and still supplementing with hand watering), but I'm still probably a couple weeks away from "first mow" level of growth.

On that note, I actually wish there was a bit more info in the Bermuda Bible WRT "startup procedures" -- as in, what steps are generally suggested for the first 2-8 weeks after putting in new sod. There are lots of resources online, but I see differing advice. That said, I'm not looking a gift-horse in the mouth nor trying to be a choosey beggar -- the Bermuda Bible is an absolutely _fantastic_ resource, and without it I almost surely wouldn't have even gone down this path at all. Just throwing in my 2c on an area where I feel a bit "lost" overall; once it's at healthy/peak growing, I'll be much more confident via the Bermuda Bible, but this initial "first few weeks" is a little more of an unknown for me, plus the waiting-game is nerve-wracking and has me incredibly anxious, haha. =D

FWIW -- I'm looking at picking up a reel mower (used McClane), so I'm definitely anxious to do some leveling sooner than later -- am hopeful that in another 2-3 weeks it'll be strong enough growth that I can consider doing some lighter-ish leveling.

On that note, I'm curious -- for "first mow" on TifTuf sod, can I use the McClane -- as long as I'm careful with the 'ledges' in the sod & keep HoC high enough to avoid any scalping / ensure I'm only clipping maximum of 1/3 of the grass blades? Or is it going to be difficult to avoid scalping / should I stick with rotary until it's well-rooted & leveled, so that I can bring down HoC to more desirable levels?

I guess the real question is, do I need to get at least 1-2 mows in before I do any sand-leveling at all -- or can I do some leveling prior to (ie approx. around the same time as I would expect to do) the first mow?

Thank you!!!


----------



## jpos34

I'm going to attach a few pictures of my yard. I'm torn between which type of drag to use. Some say the flexible mat style will dip in low spots and drag sand out defeating the purpose but I also feel like some spots in my yard will be several inches if I use the @wardconnor style mat, deep due to the extreme undulations that are in my yard. What are some of your thought from the pictures. There's is about a 4 foot elevation gain from furthest point in yard up to front of house. Pics make it hard to tell. Also do you think I'm Greene's up enough to go ahead and take this on?


----------



## Bombers

The deeper areas (2nd to last pic) will take several sessions (years). I would cut the sod out and fill it with top soil.


----------



## monsonman

About to tackle my first levelling project and trying to understand how low i should be scalping prior to sand

This was at .75" about a week and a half ago. been cutting at .86" since


----------



## BU Bear

monsonman said:


> About to tackle my first levelling project and trying to understand how low i should be scalping prior to sand
> 
> This was at .75" about a week and a half ago. been cutting at .86" since


I would go as low as you possibly can before hitting dirt everywhere. The lower it is the easier it is to get the sand to settle into the canopy. It also helps to show where low/high spots are.


----------



## Mightyquinn

ADanto6840 said:


> .
> 
> On that note, I actually wish there was a bit more info in the Bermuda Bible WRT "startup procedures" -- as in, what steps are generally suggested for the first 2-8 weeks after putting in new sod. There are lots of resources online, but I see differing advice. That said, I'm not looking a gift-horse in the mouth nor trying to be a choosey beggar -- the Bermuda Bible is an absolutely _fantastic_ resource, and without it I almost surely wouldn't have even gone down this path at all. Just throwing in my 2c on an area where I feel a bit "lost" overall; once it's at healthy/peak growing, I'll be much more confident via the Bermuda Bible, but this initial "first few weeks" is a little more of an unknown for me, plus the waiting-game is nerve-wracking and has me incredibly anxious, haha. =D
> Thank you!!!


I probably need to do a revision of the Bermuda Bible on here as it has been a few years since I have updated it but it probably won't happen until the offseason as I will have more time then but you do bring up a good point of something to add to it. I might start a thread towards the end of the year to gather ideas of what to add to it. :thumbup:


----------



## monsonman

BU Bear said:


> monsonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> About to tackle my first levelling project and trying to understand how low i should be scalping prior to sand
> 
> This was at .75" about a week and a half ago. been cutting at .86" since
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would go as low as you possibly can before hitting dirt everywhere. The lower it is the easier it is to get the sand to settle into the canopy. It also helps to show where low/high spots are.
Click to expand...

Right on, thanks. Sand being delivered Thursday


----------



## jpos34

jpos34 said:


> I'm going to attach a few pictures of my yard. I'm torn between which type of drag to use. Some say the flexible mat style will dip in low spots and drag sand out defeating the purpose but I also feel like some spots in my yard will be several inches if I use the @wardconnor style mat, deep due to the extreme undulations that are in my yard. What are some of your thought from the pictures. There's is about a 4 foot elevation gain from furthest point in yard up to front of house. Pics make it hard to tell. Also do you think I'm Greene's up enough to go ahead and take this on?


 This is what I'm trying to fix. Although this is a rarity, got over 5 inches of rain today. Either way got some big low spots to fill and lots of unevenness from when sod was laid.


----------



## jpos34

I had a company give me a quote today on top dressing my 8000k feet. I was quoted $2700 and was told it would take 24 tons of sand. Does something seem off to anyone else? And is that price high for 8k?


----------



## BU Bear

jpos34 said:


> I had a company give me a quote today on top dressing my 8000k feet. I was quoted $2700 and was told it would take 24 tons of sand. Does something seem off to anyone else? And is that price high for 8k?


The rate I've seen is 1 yard per 1,000 and 1 yard being equal to ~1.5 tons. That would mean they're using double the amount of sand most people recommend on here. People scale up for worse lawns, but I'd think yours would have to be really bad to use that much. As for price I can't say if that's good or not, but I will say I paid $260 for 11ish tons of sand. I think some of the members who have paid companies to level may be able to chime in more on that part.


----------



## Jws1008

Not sure if this question has been posted before. It may be a unique situation.

I have 3,500 sq ft of fenced in Tif tuf bermuda. It's about 3 years old now. I follow bermuda bible closley and yard looks great for most part. (I do some some dead spots that take a while to fill in each year)

I have two 65 pound boxers who only get access to the yard 6 months of the year. Once I scalp in April they move to the pool area and are off the lawn until sometime in September. I have done one leveling job in the past with topsoil (don't think my yard guy did the best job smoothing it out). They have access to the lawn from late September until March.

I have a reel mower with a roller bar and try to cut at 0.7 from scalp until about July 4th before I start to raise HOC. I definitely have bumps that make this challenging.

Question is this. I am thinking about spending on super sod level mix at ~$800 expense (I now have a leveling rake and drag mat so confident I get it very level). I wondering if anyone has experience with dogs running on bermuda in winter and if this is a complete waste of money. Just curious if I will think it's amazing for year one and exactly like it was before after one winter or I should see long term improvement.

Any advice or thoughts?


----------



## Adamg77

Can anyone in the north Texas area recommend a place for sand? I'm near 380 near prosper.


----------



## ReelMowLow74

Adamg77 said:


> Can anyone in the north Texas area recommend a place for sand? I'm near 380 near prosper.


This will be my first time leveling but I found great reviews from Lowery Sand: https://www.lowerysand.com/

They were very friendly and quick to respond when I asked for a quote. I live off 380 and Lake Forest so likely not far from you. My sand will be delivered next week and I can let you know how it goes!


----------



## tashi

Adamg77 said:


> Can anyone in the north Texas area recommend a place for sand? I'm near 380 near prosper.


I havent leveled myself yet but the 2 places im currently looking at are:
http://www.dfwstonesupply.com/
https://www.outdoorwarehousesupply.com/
both quoted me around $42/yard for mason sand


----------



## ILoveGrits

ReelMowLow74 said:


> Adamg77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone in the north Texas area recommend a place for sand? I'm near 380 near prosper.
> 
> 
> 
> This will be my first time leveling but I found great reviews from Lowery Sand: https://www.lowerysand.com/
> 
> They were very friendly and quick to respond when I asked for a quote. I live off 380 and Lake Forest so likely not far from you. My sand will be delivered next week and I can let you know how it goes!
Click to expand...

I used lowery last year and would recommend them.


----------



## lvlikeyv

Adamg77 said:


> Can anyone in the north Texas area recommend a place for sand? I'm near 380 near prosper.


I'm using Classic Rock Stone Yard off of Highway 66 in Rockwall.

$55 per yard for mason sand. I put eyes on it and didn't see any rocks or debris. 
Delivery fee to me in Royse City (about 15 minutes away) was $40.

I'm having 2 yards delivery this Wednesday.
I'll post pictures of the process and my thoughts on the quality.


----------



## Adamg77

Lowry quoted me $195 for one ton of sand delivered to 76227. I'll be loading the pickup from DFW sand and stone as soon as I check it out to confirm it is up to quality. Thanks for the suggestions gents


----------



## Mightyquinn

Why is sand so expensive out in TX? I think I paid $240 for 12 yds delivered last time.


----------



## BU Bear

Mightyquinn said:


> Why is sand so expensive out in TX? I think I paid $240 for 12 yds delivered last time.


I think it might just be right around DFW? I paid $260 for 11 tons including delivery which is still a decent bit more than what you paid, but significantly less than some of these quotes.


----------



## capscrazy

North Dallas here. 
Getting 10 yards of sandy loam delivered Friday! Gorilla cart and 36" level lawn tool on standby! Will get it done by Saturday! Supposed to rain Sunday through Friday. Will post pics of progress!


----------



## ReelMowLow74

Well I'm supposed to do mine next Thursday and Friday... but it looks like it might rain every day before. Maybe I'll be postponing &#128532;


----------



## adidasUNT8

Yeah I'm in DFW area as well. It's looking like it might be cloudy but not rainy Thurs/Friday, but giving a chance starting Saturday until the foreseable future. Might be best to hold off on the leveling project until this weather passes. It's been rainy the last few days and the sand is going to need to dry out before leveling. Looks to be fairly cool as well for the next week, highs in the 70's. I want it growing pretty strong when I go to cover it up so it bounces through quickly. Just my thoughts.


----------



## ReelMowLow74

adidasUNT8 said:


> Yeah I'm in DFW area as well. It's looking like it might be cloudy but not rainy Thurs/Friday, but giving a chance starting Saturday until the foreseable future. Might be best to hold off on the leveling project until this weather passes. It's been rainy the last few days and the sand is going to need to dry out before leveling. Looks to be fairly cool as well for the next week, highs in the 70's. I want it growing pretty strong when I go to cover it up so it bounces through quickly. Just my thoughts.


Kind of my thinking as well. I have my aeration scheduled for tomorrow and was hoping to have that done and the holes open for when the sand went down next week. Oh well I guess on that part of it.


----------



## Chuckatuck89

Anyone ever use a lawn sweeper (without the bagger attached) to spread the sand around after they have it in piles on the yard? Im thinking it might help get it spread around evenly before dragging it in


----------



## Getting Fat

this question has to do with mowing after a level. I'm sure this has been asked somewhere in the 99-page thread, so I apologize.

I leveled last week fairly heavy. Grass is coming through, but not very thick yet. I'm not worried, it'll get there.

I know I should wait a couple of weeks before mowing (manual push reel). The grass that has broken through is already pretty long.

My question:

What height of cut do you mow at after a level? Should I start higher and work my way down? Should I just break the 1/3 rule?

Thanks.


----------



## capscrazy

ReelMowLow74 said:


> adidasUNT8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I'm in DFW area as well. It's looking like it might be cloudy but not rainy Thurs/Friday, but giving a chance starting Saturday until the foreseable future. Might be best to hold off on the leveling project until this weather passes. It's been rainy the last few days and the sand is going to need to dry out before leveling. Looks to be fairly cool as well for the next week, highs in the 70's. I want it growing pretty strong when I go to cover it up so it bounces through quickly. Just my thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of my thinking as well. I have my aeration scheduled for tomorrow and was hoping to have that done and the holes open for when the sand went down next week. Oh well I guess on that part of it.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about holding off as well but gonna go for it. By the way......anyone local have a drag mat I could borrow? I'll literally be dragging it but could push down further than level rake will. I'm in Prosper. 
Hope everyone is healthy and safe!


----------



## Kicker

Adamg77 said:


> Lowry quoted me $195 for one ton of sand delivered to 76227. I'll be loading the pickup from DFW sand and stone as soon as I check it out to confirm it is up to quality. Thanks for the suggestions gents


I can verify that DFW Sand and Stone (Bus 121) has very clean mason sand (this was 2 years ago though).


----------



## lvlikeyv

capscrazy said:


> I was thinking about holding off as well but gonna go for it. By the way......anyone local have a drag mat I could borrow? I'll literally be dragging it but could push down further than level rake will. I'm in Prosper.
> Hope everyone is healthy and safe!


Good thing I have sand coming the 19th :| 
I'm curious as well to see if anyone local has a drag mat they wouldn't mind lending for $20.


----------



## adidasUNT8

lvlikeyv said:


> capscrazy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking about holding off as well but gonna go for it. By the way......anyone local have a drag mat I could borrow? I'll literally be dragging it but could push down further than level rake will. I'm in Prosper.
> Hope everyone is healthy and safe!
> 
> 
> 
> Good thing I have sand coming the 19th :|
> I'm curious as well to see if anyone local has a drag mat they wouldn't mind lending for $20.
Click to expand...

unlucky with the forecast. I saw the rain coming on sunday-all next week and called Lowery's and they delivered 10 yards to me in a couple hours over here in Weatherford. Masonry sand looks great. No debris in it. $425 delivered for 10 yards. I did it last year, but forgot how much work it is. Took me about 7 hours to get it all moved and smoothed out.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

lvlikeyv said:


> capscrazy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking about holding off as well but gonna go for it. By the way......anyone local have a drag mat I could borrow? I'll literally be dragging it but could push down further than level rake will. I'm in Prosper.
> Hope everyone is healthy and safe!
> 
> 
> 
> Good thing I have sand coming the 19th :|
> I'm curious as well to see if anyone local has a drag mat they wouldn't mind lending for $20.
Click to expand...

Where you at?


----------



## capscrazy

I'm in Prosper.


----------



## adidasUNT8

I just leveled yesterday and watered it in last night and part of it by hand this morning. MOst of it is coming through nicely. I cut it down to .25" just before leveling. I also sprayed some humic/fulvic/sea kelp and .25 lb N - urea. Lows are in the upper 60's and highs in lower 80's. Going to be raining for the next 5 days most likely. There was one pretty low spot where it's about 2-3" of sand.

Any thoughts on how long it may take to grow through 2-3" of masonry sand? Grass was growing pretty healthy before leveling. Cutting 2/3 times a week at .5"


----------



## drewwitt

adidasUNT8 said:


> I just leveled yesterday and watered it in last night and part of it by hand this morning. MOst of it is coming through nicely. I cut it down to .25" just before leveling. I also sprayed some humic/fulvic/sea kelp and .25 lb N - urea. Lows are in the upper 60's and highs in lower 80's. Going to be raining for the next 5 days most likely. There was one pretty low spot where it's about 2-3" of sand.
> 
> Any thoughts on how long it may take to grow through 2-3" of masonry sand? Grass was growing pretty healthy before leveling. Cutting 2/3 times a week at .5"


If you have Bermuda, I'd be surprised if it's not filled in by July. If it's big, consider plugging it.


----------



## lvlikeyv

Philly_Gunner said:


> Where you at?


Royse City, just outside of Downtown.


----------



## adidasUNT8

drewwitt said:


> adidasUNT8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just leveled yesterday and watered it in last night and part of it by hand this morning. MOst of it is coming through nicely. I cut it down to .25" just before leveling. I also sprayed some humic/fulvic/sea kelp and .25 lb N - urea. Lows are in the upper 60's and highs in lower 80's. Going to be raining for the next 5 days most likely. There was one pretty low spot where it's about 2-3" of sand.
> 
> Any thoughts on how long it may take to grow through 2-3" of masonry sand? Grass was growing pretty healthy before leveling. Cutting 2/3 times a week at .5"
> 
> 
> 
> If you have Bermuda, I'd be surprised if it's not filled in by July. If it's big, consider plugging it.
Click to expand...

So much for wanting to start PGR anytime soon


----------



## drewwitt

adidasUNT8 said:


> drewwitt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> adidasUNT8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just leveled yesterday and watered it in last night and part of it by hand this morning. MOst of it is coming through nicely. I cut it down to .25" just before leveling. I also sprayed some humic/fulvic/sea kelp and .25 lb N - urea. Lows are in the upper 60's and highs in lower 80's. Going to be raining for the next 5 days most likely. There was one pretty low spot where it's about 2-3" of sand.
> 
> Any thoughts on how long it may take to grow through 2-3" of masonry sand? Grass was growing pretty healthy before leveling. Cutting 2/3 times a week at .5"
> 
> 
> 
> If you have Bermuda, I'd be surprised if it's not filled in by July. If it's big, consider plugging it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So much for wanting to start PGR anytime soon
Click to expand...

I feel that. I skipped PGR last season for the same reason. However, Greendoc had mentioned to do PGR anyway and that it would force horizontal growth. But being inexperienced with PGR, I didn't want to experiment. I wonder if others have done that after sanding with success? Or does it just keep growth at a minimum?


----------



## monsonman

I leveled mine 10 days ago on the 7th. It recovered much quicker than i anticipated. 2yds of sand on 2k sf. probably could have gone a little heavier but still happy with the results.



















2 Days after sand:









3 Days after sand:









7 Days after sand (then cut it at .62")

















And this was this morning with a little rain. I cut it on Saturday at .5"


----------



## adidasUNT8

drewwitt said:


> adidasUNT8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drewwitt said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you have Bermuda, I'd be surprised if it's not filled in by July. If it's big, consider plugging it.
> 
> 
> 
> So much for wanting to start PGR anytime soon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I feel that. I skipped PGR last season for the same reason. However, Greendoc had mentioned to do PGR anyway and that it would force horizontal growth. But being inexperienced with PGR, I didn't want to experiment. I wonder if others have done that after sanding with success? Or does it just keep growth at a minimum?
Click to expand...

Yeah I'd like to hear a response from that as well. I'm curious on if it will still come up from underneath the sand or if it mainly will creep in from the sides. Last year it took probably 4/5 days to get back to looking pretty normal. I feel we put it on a little thicker this time, but not too bad. Grass was scalped down to .25" a few hours before leveling. We've had some nice rain the last couple days and more expected over this week. I finished leveling Friday night.

Back yard pre-level on Thursday: (wife is super nervous the leveling is going to screw it up lol)



I thought I took a picture of the front after completed, but it looked similar to the back as far as coverage, seen here.



The main area i'm concerned about is the area just behind the sign on the right.


----------



## Meximusprime

Leveled this past Friday. Did not go too heavy in backyard and front is just over a month old. My 36 inch lawn level really helped get sand into canopy. Hoping sand stays in place as rain is in the forecast all week.


----------



## SeanBB

Looking good everyone, hopefully getting to mine soon!


----------



## DFWLawnNut

I need to do this so badly, but my lawn isn't flat. I'm contemplating ripping everything out and re-grading it flatter and putting in a different cultivar. I have some high areas that need to be addressed and I cant raise everything around them. This slope is the bane of my existence lol. I want to go to a half inch but it scalps all over the place due to the ups and downs everywhere. 3/4 inch here already pushes it.


----------



## Bmossin

@DFWLawnNut the leveling will help, but I'm in the same boat with a slope like that. I am trying to fill in a rut where the previous owners missed the driveway often, and my sand keeps ending up on the sidewalk and street from all this rain.


----------



## DFWLawnNut

Yeah I really wanna tackle the slope with sand and see how close I can get it to smooth and "level." lol Ron Henry has done his several times and hes the only other lawn guy on youtube that has a slope like we do. If I ever move, having a flat front and backyard are going to be a must on my list.



Bmossin said:


> @DFWLawnNut the leveling will help, but I'm in the same boat with a slope like that. I am trying to fill in a rut where the previous owners missed the driveway often, and my sand keeps ending up on the sidewalk and street from all this rain.


----------



## ReelMowLow74

I have a fairly steep side slope that I'm going to attempt this year. I probably won't scalp as low ahead of time and make sure I do a double pass of aeration to give the sand a chance to hold on something if it rains while it's filling in. I might go fairly light too and just do it a few times per season. I really don't know if this is the right approach (I've also never leveled before) but I figured it's worth a shot &#128077;&#127995;


----------



## lvlikeyv

I'm supposed to be having sand delivered today and was planning on leveling tomorrow. (Even took the day off)
We have rain expected pretty much all day today and some chance tomorrow.

Question: is it even worth messing with now if the sand is going to be wet?
Should I wait to let the sand dry out? if so, how long?

I was planning on core aerating as well. Is that just going to be a pain in the neck with all the rain we've had?


----------



## nichord

Having just gone through the dancing around the rain. I would not advise doing this when it is wet. Heavy stuff and doesn't spread very good when wet. Big project as I had 24 yards delivered. Used tractor, lawn cart with DIY dump, and Lawn Rebel type drag. Still very sore the next day. I advise to do this when the sand can dry.

Check out my lawn journal to see more pics.


----------



## ReelMowLow74

Dang!! My delivery got cancelled today due to the rain but coming tomorrow and things are hopefully drying out here in DFW over the next few days. Good advice, thank you,


----------



## Sbcgenii

nichord said:


> Having just gone through the dancing around the rain. I would not advise doing this when it is wet. Heavy stuff and doesn't spread very good when wet. Big project as I had 24 yards delivered. Used tractor, lawn cart with DIY dump, and Lawn Rebel type drag. Still very sore the next day. I advise to do this when the sand can dry.
> 
> Check out my lawn journal to see more pics.


That is so awesome.


----------



## lvlikeyv

Just had 2 yards delivered. I've got it all bundled up until we can get some sunnier weather. 
At this rate, it should only take about 1 to 2 months. lol


----------



## Rpatterson

capscrazy said:


> ReelMowLow74 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> adidasUNT8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I'm in DFW area as well. It's looking like it might be cloudy but not rainy Thurs/Friday, but giving a chance starting Saturday until the foreseable future. Might be best to hold off on the leveling project until this weather passes. It's been rainy the last few days and the sand is going to need to dry out before leveling. Looks to be fairly cool as well for the next week, highs in the 70's. I want it growing pretty strong when I go to cover it up so it bounces through quickly. Just my thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of my thinking as well. I have my aeration scheduled for tomorrow and was hoping to have that done and the holes open for when the sand went down next week. Oh well I guess on that part of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was thinking about holding off as well but gonna go for it. By the way......anyone local have a drag mat I could borrow? I'll literally be dragging it but could push down further than level rake will. I'm in Prosper.
> Hope everyone is healthy and safe!
Click to expand...

I have one. Not sure if you've already done your project or not. Let me know. I'll be in Prosper this weekend.


----------



## SwBermuda

How often can you level the lawn in one season? For the most part, my 2.5k lawn gobbled up 4 yards of sand and could easily take another 2 yards.


----------



## capscrazy

Rpatterson said:


> capscrazy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ReelMowLow74 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of my thinking as well. I have my aeration scheduled for tomorrow and was hoping to have that done and the holes open for when the sand went down next week. Oh well I guess on that part of it.
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking about holding off as well but gonna go for it. By the way......anyone local have a drag mat I could borrow? I'll literally be dragging it but could push down further than level rake will. I'm in Prosper.
> Hope everyone is healthy and safe!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have one. Not sure if you've already done your project or not. Let me know. I'll be in Prosper this weekend.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Already got it thrown and spread though. I used a sand/chicken manure mix. Wish it had been more sand but it came out okay. Took a lot of work but it's coming back quickly. I'll ping you for the next time I level though....unless I buy a drag mat before then.


----------



## lsk5013

For those in GA, when aerating prior to levelling, are you picking up the plugs or leaving them and just dragging the topdressing material over it? I've heard and read mixed reviews, and the company (Atlanta Level Lawns) who is doing the service over the course of two days this weekend is planning on leaving them. However, given our plugs are mostly clay, it doesn't seem like "many nutrients" will actually get back into the soil? So I ask the people....I can manually pick as many up as possible post aeration, and prior to day #2 when they topdress if that would help. Appreciate the thoughts!


----------



## CLT49er

I scoop them up with a plastic snow shovel onfront and back. Plugs I leave on sides of house do hang around for a while. Rotary eventually breaks them up. Makes things dusty!

Guess depends on the size of the yard. Scoop where you can IMO. In NC. Same clay stuff you have I think.


----------



## lsk5013

Thanks @CLT49er - yea, same clay stuff. The yard is 3,000 sq. ft so while I probably can't get them all up, I think I'll try to rake what I can into piles and pick them up. Good to know you pick them up too.


----------



## monsonman

SwBermuda said:


> How often can you level the lawn in one season? For the most part, my 2.5k lawn gobbled up 4 yards of sand and could easily take another 2 yards.


I'd like to second this question. Mine is completely filled in except for a couple of heavy areas but would like to do another round before the end of the season.

I'm thinking as long as the grass is growing vigorously and has time to recover before fall that it should be able to handle the sand but i'd like to hear some thoughts from the experts here


----------



## Sbcgenii

monsonman said:


> SwBermuda said:
> 
> 
> 
> How often can you level the lawn in one season? For the most part, my 2.5k lawn gobbled up 4 yards of sand and could easily take another 2 yards.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to second this question. Mine is completely filled in except for a couple of heavy areas but would like to do another round before the end of the season.
> 
> I'm thinking as long as the grass is growing vigorously and has time to recover before fall that it should be able to handle the sand but i'd like to hear some thoughts from the experts here
Click to expand...

I plan on leveling again as soon as the heat and sun comes. I would like to put down 22yards on my 7k square feet this year.


----------



## adidasUNT8

Sbcgenii said:


> monsonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwBermuda said:
> 
> 
> 
> How often can you level the lawn in one season? For the most part, my 2.5k lawn gobbled up 4 yards of sand and could easily take another 2 yards.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to second this question. Mine is completely filled in except for a couple of heavy areas but would like to do another round before the end of the season.
> 
> I'm thinking as long as the grass is growing vigorously and has time to recover before fall that it should be able to handle the sand but i'd like to hear some thoughts from the experts here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I plan on leveling again as soon as the heat and sun comes. I would like to put down 22yards on my 7k square feet this year.
Click to expand...

holy cow. That's alot. I'm thinking too much.


----------



## Sbcgenii

adidasUNT8 said:


> Sbcgenii said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> monsonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to second this question. Mine is completely filled in except for a couple of heavy areas but would like to do another round before the end of the season.
> 
> I'm thinking as long as the grass is growing vigorously and has time to recover before fall that it should be able to handle the sand but i'd like to hear some thoughts from the experts here
> 
> 
> 
> I plan on leveling again as soon as the heat and sun comes. I would like to put down 22yards on my 7k square feet this year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> holy cow. That's alot. I'm thinking too much.
Click to expand...

I already Did 10 yards and the beginning of April. My problem is the weather in March was good. I had more GDD in March than April. So far in May in has been cloudy and rainy 90% of the time with no improvement in the forecast in the next 10days. I also have some really bad low spots that take a lot of sand.


----------



## SwBermuda

Well in the desert southwest we are approaching triple digits for the next 3-4 months so no problems with heat/sun here. Looks like I need to call my local sand guy and get another delivery in.


----------



## probasestealer

2nd leveling (ignore the green area, trying to remove some common).
Scalped, sanded and dropped 34-0-0.
Day 0 vs Day 2, heavy rain last night.
I used about 1.25 yards per 1k


----------



## Beerman219

lsk5013 said:


> For those in GA, when aerating prior to levelling, are you picking up the plugs or leaving them and just dragging the topdressing material over it? I've heard and read mixed reviews, and the company (Atlanta Level Lawns) who is doing the service over the course of two days this weekend is planning on leaving them. However, given our plugs are mostly clay, it doesn't seem like "many nutrients" will actually get back into the soil? So I ask the people....I can manually pick as many up as possible post aeration, and prior to day #2 when they topdress if that would help. Appreciate the thoughts!


I think picking up cores is a bit silly. I'm going to let the drag break them up and mix with the sand. Remember goal of aeration is to reduce bulk density. If loose cored material gets in the hole it's still not even close to the same dens of the OG soil.


----------



## Texastwostep01

Had to throw 2 cents into the pick up plug or don't pick up plug conversation. I went with another option.

Core areated day 1. Got random thunderstorm that night that dropped 1" of rain.
Decided to mowed over it on day 2 with the Tru-Cut 27" super low to help scalp and get ready for 24 yards of sand this weekend.

The rain made the plugs pretty soft and nasty, the Tru-Cut just blasted them. The roller bar smushed while the reels shredded. There was grass, mud and dirt just launching out of the front of it. Other than making a HUGE mess on my mower I'd say it was very successful. I did have to stop twice and spray off mud on the wheels, reel and mower to keep from clogging. BUT... it worked really well and if you don't mind getting a little mud on the tires its a decent option. You could obviously irrigate overnight and get the same affect. It was a little hard mentally to get the mower that dirty but it cleaned up great and I'm bringing it in to get sharpened and serviced after the sand is thrown down this weekend.

I didn't want to leave hard plugs on the surface while trying to level but I also didn't want to hand rake and pick up 18K sqft of plugs either.

Side note: If anyone is in the Liberty Hill, TX area this weekend and wants to get a good workout, AKA help level 18K sqft of Bermuda with 24 yards of sand shoot me a message.  :lol: Landscapers have no labor available and out of my entire neighborhood I was only able to find one teenager that wants to earn a few bucks!


----------



## SwBermuda

Beerman219 said:


> lsk5013 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For those in GA, when aerating prior to levelling, are you picking up the plugs or leaving them and just dragging the topdressing material over it? I've heard and read mixed reviews, and the company (Atlanta Level Lawns) who is doing the service over the course of two days this weekend is planning on leaving them. However, given our plugs are mostly clay, it doesn't seem like "many nutrients" will actually get back into the soil? So I ask the people....I can manually pick as many up as possible post aeration, and prior to day #2 when they topdress if that would help. Appreciate the thoughts!
> 
> 
> 
> I think picking up cores is a bit silly. I'm going to let the drag break them up and mix with the sand. Remember goal of aeration is to reduce bulk density. If loose cored material gets in the hole it's still not even close to the same dens of the OG soil.
Click to expand...

Think it also might depend on the type of soil that gets cored. I remove my cores because the soil I have is clayish and doesn't allow for much water retention.


----------



## Still learnin

44 tons of sand delivered today. Chance of 1/2 inch of rain. Planned on aerating and leveling Saturday. We received a 1/2 inch and then about another 1 1/2 in one hour. Still raining. 🤦🏻‍♂️


----------



## ReelMowLow74

Still learnin said:


> 44 tons of sand delivered today. Chance of 1/2 inch of rain. Planned on aerating and leveling Saturday. We received a 1/2 inch and then about another 1 1/2 in one hour. Still raining. 🤦🏻‍♂️


I just finished 6 yards and am feeling it, can't even imagine moving that much unless you have some heavy equipment!! I'm worried about the rain forecast as well and hope this sand doesn't end up in the gutter overnight


----------



## wicknilly

Lawn noob and first-time leveler here. Going to tackle the front yard tomorrow.

Scalped and aerated last week. Nothing had been applied to my mega-compacted clay soil in 3-4 years, so put down 40lbs of 10-10-10 on 4,000sf after aerating. Soil sample was sent for testing before the 10-10-10 was applied, but has not been received back yet.

A couple questions:

#1 Lawn needs to be mowed today before leveling tomorrow. Should I scalp again (would rather not lol), or just cut as low as possible without scalping? Last week's scalp was at 0.75". Lowest setting on my rotary

#2 Should I put down more fertilizer after leveling? I currently have 16-4-8 on hand

Thanks for any direction! Glad to have found this community


----------



## Texastwostep01

About half way through a 24 yard pile. Got 2" + rain first night after I put out around 6 yards. Amazingly it mostly stayed in place.

For those doing large projects I can't recommend this dingo enough. Especially now with wet sand.

I scoop it and then throw in wheelbarrows to move into the yard. Spreading isnt that hard. My kids can do it quite easily if you make smaller piles. Removing the having to shovel part is a game changer.


----------



## Automate

@Texastwostep01 How much did the Dingo cost to rent?


----------



## TN_Bermuda

Started my forest leveling project. Went really well, except I could have used more sand …. Next time!

Question: When do I start mowing again?


----------



## wicknilly

Knocked it out over the weekend. The garden tractor, gorilla cart, and drag mat were invaluable. Don't think I could've done it without them.


----------



## ReelMowLow74

Similar question as above... when do I start mowing again!?


----------



## Mightyquinn

When most of the sand is gone.


----------



## jpos34

I do not have irrigation on my lawn. After I level how often/much do I need to water. I plan on getting a multi zone hose time so I can have multiple sprinklers/hoses setup so I don't have to drag hoses around potentially pulling sand out of my low spots. The timer I'm gonna get get can have up to 4 times per zone a day. Do I just need to water once a day or several shorter sessions multiple times in the day?


----------



## Rooster

I'm getting sand delivered in a week. If I only have 2500 sq feet, can I do an effective level with just a leveling rake and a push broom? I don't want another thing (drag mat) hanging in the garage that I may only use once or twice.


----------



## monsonman

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> I'm getting sand delivered in a week. If I only have 2500 sq feet, can I do an effective level with just a leveling rake and a push broom? I don't want another thing (drag mat) hanging in the garage that I may only use once or twice.


Definitely can get it done with just the rake and broom. I just did roughly the same size last month and while I did use a drag, I didn't find that it was necessary or more effective than the Level Lawn Rake alone. The leveling rake is a little tough to knock piles down with though so I would recommend a standard garden rake or wide landscape rake to help there.


----------



## lvlikeyv

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> I'm getting sand delivered in a week. If I only have 2500 sq feet, can I do an effective level with just a leveling rake and a push broom? I don't want another thing (drag mat) hanging in the garage that I may only use once or twice.


Get creative! I leveled my 2k sf backyard and made a drag out of stuff I had lying around. 
I'm sure if wasn't as efficient as an actual drag but it definitely got the job done. I used a gorilla cart, shovel, metal rake, push broom, and the custom drag. Took about 2 hours to go through 2 yards. Good luck! and don't overthink it. Spread the sand and let the grass grow through.


----------



## Deltahedge

I've got 20 tons of sand ordered for delivery next Thursday June 10th. I'm in the process of renting a Dingo based on the recommendation of @Texastwostep01 earlier in this thread. I'm also trying to rent an aerator from the same place, but I'm going forward with the leveling project with or without aerating.


----------



## Joeeeekkkkk

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> I'm getting sand delivered in a week. If I only have 2500 sq feet, can I do an effective level with just a leveling rake and a push broom? I don't want another thing (drag mat) hanging in the garage that I may only use once or twice.


Yes you'll be fine. I did my front yard which is probably about 2k maybe slightly more. All I had was a wheelbarrow, push broom and a small garden rake. I dumped the piles around, knocked them down with the rake then came back with the broom.

Definitely go over it with the broom multiple times throughout the day and the next couple days after.

I did about 1.5 tons of sand, probably should've done more.


----------



## Rooster

@lvlikeyv, I do have an 8' 2x4 in the garage . . . thoughts a-buzzin'.


----------



## Rooster

Joeeeekkkkk said:


> Yes you'll be fine. I did my front yard which is probably about 2k maybe slightly more. All I had was a wheelbarrow, push broom and a small garden rake. I dumped the piles around, knocked them down with the rake then came back with the broom.
> 
> Definitely go over it with the broom multiple times throughout the day and the next couple days after.
> 
> I did about 1.5 tons of sand, probably should've done more.


Do you have any pics of the process? I'm curious what 1.5 tons over 2k sq ft looks like. I'm planning 2 yards (~2.7 tons) for my 2500 sq ft.


----------



## Joeeeekkkkk

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> Joeeeekkkkk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes you'll be fine. I did my front yard which is probably about 2k maybe slightly more. All I had was a wheelbarrow, push broom and a small garden rake. I dumped the piles around, knocked them down with the rake then came back with the broom.
> 
> Definitely go over it with the broom multiple times throughout the day and the next couple days after.
> 
> I did about 1.5 tons of sand, probably should've done more.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any pics of the process? I'm curious what 1.5 tons over 2k sq ft looks like. I'm planning 2 yards (~2.7 tons) for my 2500 sq ft.
Click to expand...

I don't but I think I could've fit that much down for sure. The sand I used wasn't exactly wet but it definitely had some moisture, so spreading it out with the rake, letting it dry a bit then brooming it in worked well. I just finished on Tuesday and aside from a few heavier spots you can see my grass really well already. Tells me I should've done double... haha

So I think you'll be happy with that amount


----------



## Rooster

Joeeeekkkkk said:


> Bermuda_Rooster said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any pics of the process? I'm curious what 1.5 tons over 2k sq ft looks like. I'm planning 2 yards (~2.7 tons) for my 2500 sq ft.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't but I think I could've fit that much down for sure. The sand I used wasn't exactly wet but it definitely had some moisture, so spreading it out with the rake, letting it dry a bit then brooming it in worked well. I just finished on Tuesday and aside from a few heavier spots you can see my grass really well already. Tells me I should've done double... haha
> 
> So I think you'll be happy with that amount
Click to expand...

How low did you mow before you leveled? It seems to me that this may be a factor as well.


----------



## monsonman

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> Joeeeekkkkk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bermuda_Rooster said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any pics of the process? I'm curious what 1.5 tons over 2k sq ft looks like. I'm planning 2 yards (~2.7 tons) for my 2500 sq ft.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't but I think I could've fit that much down for sure. The sand I used wasn't exactly wet but it definitely had some moisture, so spreading it out with the rake, letting it dry a bit then brooming it in worked well. I just finished on Tuesday and aside from a few heavier spots you can see my grass really well already. Tells me I should've done double... haha
> 
> So I think you'll be happy with that amount
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How low did you mow before you leveled? It seems to me that this may be a factor as well.
Click to expand...

Go look at the top of page 100 in this thread. I just did 2 yards on ~2,000sf. I could have gone a little heavier. Also, for reference I cut mine down to .5"


----------



## Rooster

monsonman said:


> Go look at the top of page 100 in this thread. I just did 2 yards on ~2,000sf. I could have gone a little heavier. Also, for reference I cut mine down to .5"


Thanks! .5" is probably the lowest I can go, so that seems like a perfect illustration of what mine can hopefully look like. That recovery speed is amazing.

Of course, I have some dips that, to get even close to smooth, will need 2"+ of sand. I imagine it may take a couple of weeks before that fills back in.


----------



## lvlikeyv

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> Do you have any pics of the process? I'm curious what 1.5 tons over 2k sq ft looks like. I'm planning 2 yards (~2.7 tons) for my 2500 sq ft.


here is 2 yards on about 2k (maybe closer to 1.8K) lawn. This was done Saturday afternoon


Here is what it looked like this morning. I give it another week or two and it will be close to 100%. I definitely had a "oh god, what have I done" moment. But I feel like if you don't have that feeling you might not have used enough sand  At least for the first level if your lawn in very bumpy (which mine was)


----------



## Deltahedge

lvlikeyv said:


> Get creative! I leveled my 2k sf backyard and made a drag out of stuff I had lying around.
> I'm sure if wasn't as efficient as an actual drag but it definitely got the job done. I used a gorilla cart, shovel, metal rake, push broom, and the custom drag. Took about 2 hours to go through 2 yards. Good luck! and don't overthink it. Spread the sand and let the grass grow through.


Did you aerate and pick up cores as well? I think I'm going to level without aerating, and I wonder if I will need less sand if the sand isn't going down into the holes.


----------



## lvlikeyv

Deltahedge said:


> Did you aerate and pick up cores as well? I think I'm going to level without aerating, and I wonder if I will need less sand if the sand isn't going down into the holes.


Yes I did. Rented an aerator from Home Depot for the day for $100. Spent more time cleaning the aerator off than I did using it. I then used my SunJoe scarifier to pick up the cores while scarifying the yard. (two in one!)


----------



## Joeeeekkkkk

lvlikeyv said:


> Bermuda_Rooster said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any pics of the process? I'm curious what 1.5 tons over 2k sq ft looks like. I'm planning 2 yards (~2.7 tons) for my 2500 sq ft.
> 
> 
> 
> here is 2 yards on about 2k (maybe closer to 1.8K) lawn. This was done Saturday afternoon
> 
> 
> Here is what it looked like this morning. I give it another week or two and it will be close to 100%. I definitely had a "oh god, what have I done" moment. But I feel like if you don't have that feeling you might not have used enough sand  At least for the first level if your lawn in very bumpy (which mine was)
Click to expand...

This. I definitely wish I had done more sand. I may do another leveling later this summer.

Some others have touched on the gorilla cart and how much it helps. This can't be emphasized enough. Borrowed a neighbors to put another couple tons of sand in my back yard earlier today and it was a total game changer. Guessing it cut the time in half.


----------



## lvlikeyv

Joeeeekkkkk said:


> This. I definitely wish I had done more sand. I may do another leveling later this summer.
> Some others have touched on the gorilla cart and how much it helps. This can't be emphasized enough. Borrowed a neighbors to put another couple tons of sand in my back yard earlier today and it was a total game changer. Guessing it cut the time in half.


The Gorilla Cart was a back and time saver for sure. 
I actually won the Gorilla Cart from one of the LawnForum giveaways. I believe @wardconnor donated it. 
That guy is the man!


----------



## nichord

Day 13 Update. Should be a post on how not to level the lawn! After sanding, the temps dropped in the 50s overnight with day time highs hitting upper 60s to very low 70s with mostly cloudy skies. Had a rain event on day 7 with 2.64 inches of rain in 54 minutes. Stopped having to mow areas of the lawn that weren't sanded much less the grass growing back through the very thick sand in places. Average ground temps dropped back in mid 60s. Last 2 days have been sunny and finally got above 80 today with some growth starting to come on heavy. Went from having to mow every 2 days to nothing for over a week. Finally had to get the mower out today due to the non-sanded areas finally needing a cut. Went ahead and cut it all while I was at it. I was cutting at .5" before sanding and have moved up to a .75" cut until it gets filled back in. While I didn't want to be out sweating my butt off doing this, be prepared for the waiting game if the temps drop on you if you go at it too early. This is the first major leveling after the home was built and had a ton of settling. I threw it down thick and knew it was going to take a while to grow back through, but the weather... 

Day 13:


----------



## jpos34

Mightyquinn said:


> 6. Water, Water, Water. Irrigation or a good rainfall will help settle the sand down into the canopy and it will also wash it down into the low spots too. It's not a bad idea to get everything good and level and the apply water to the lawn and see if there are any spots you need to touch up or not. You will also need to water often for the first week or so to help the grass grow up through the sand and start filling in.


Water once a day for a longer period of time, or several times a day in shorter increments?


----------



## Mightyquinn

The first one I would water heavy just to settle everything then just water lightly after that.


----------



## Meximusprime

Celebration filling in nicely. Will need a second level soon since I did get some washout from all the rain.


----------



## vallecrucis

Does anyone ever get any slight yellowing (or burn) look after using the sand? We've had some hotter sunnier days - possibly not quite watering enough.


----------



## Deltahedge

I leveled the yard for the first time yesterday with 21 tons of fairway sand. I knew it would be hard work, and it was. @Texastwostep01 mentioned renting a Dingo, and I am so glad that I did. $270 for the day was well worth it.





I set the sprinklers to put out 1/2" two different times last night, and this was what it looked like by this morning.


My wife said I looked pretty goofy out there. I asked, "Was it the hat?" She said, "No, it's the pile of sand, the machinery, the perfectly green yard that you turned into a beach. It all adds up."


----------



## Tmank87

Deltahedge said:


> I leveled the yard for the first time yesterday with 21 tons of fairway sand. I knew it would be hard work, and it was. @Texastwostep01 mentioned renting a Dingo, and I am so glad that I did. $270 for the day was well worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I set the sprinklers to put out 1/2" two different times last night, and this was what it looked like by this morning.
> 
> 
> My wife said I looked pretty goofy out there. I asked, "Was it the hat?" She said, "No, it's the pile of sand, the machinery, the perfectly green yard that you turned into a beach. It all adds up."


What'd you think of the Eco 250? I used one last weekend for my project and was really impressed with the machine. I should have rented a dingo to fill it...


----------



## Deltahedge

Tmank87 said:


> What'd you think of the Eco 250? I used one last weekend for my project and was really impressed with the machine. I should have rented a dingo to fill it...


It was great at moving 500lbs of sand at once, and it excels at topdressing. I don't know if it make things go much faster compared to pulling a gorilla cart behind a lawn mower or 4 wheeler when you're doing a super heavy leveling job. Since the whole yard is going to get a drag run over it anyway, it doesn't really matter if the sand goes out perfectly uniform like the eco is capable of doing. I think dumping things in piles is just as good for a heavy leveling job. In the years to come, I think it will really shine during routine topdressing.


----------



## Redtwin

I can't speak for the Eco 250 but my TurfCo made very quick work on leveling vs. using a gorilla cart.


----------



## Tmank87

Deltahedge said:


> Tmank87 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What'd you think of the Eco 250? I used one last weekend for my project and was really impressed with the machine. I should have rented a dingo to fill it...
> 
> 
> 
> It was great at moving 500lbs of sand at once, and it excels at topdressing. I don't know if it make things go much faster compared to pulling a gorilla cart behind a lawn mower or 4 wheeler when you're doing a super heavy leveling job. Since the whole yard is going to get a drag run over it anyway, it doesn't really matter if the sand goes out perfectly uniform like the eco is capable of doing. I think dumping things in piles is just as good for a heavy leveling job. In the years to come, I think it will really shine during routine topdressing.
Click to expand...

I agree with that analysis. A machine to pull the drag is most critical.


----------



## Passat774

Nice that Echo 250 topdressing machine is amazing!!!


----------



## ILoveGrits

Deltahedge said:


> It was great at moving 500lbs of sand at once, and it excels at topdressing. I don't know if it make things go much faster compared to pulling a gorilla cart behind a lawn mower or 4 wheeler when you're doing a super heavy leveling job. Since the whole yard is going to get a drag run over it anyway, it doesn't really matter if the sand goes out perfectly uniform like the eco is capable of doing. I think dumping things in piles is just as good for a heavy leveling job. In the years to come, I think it will really shine during routine topdressing.


Where did you rent it from?

I moved 10 tons last year with a gorilla cart and the biggest issue I found is that a conventional drag mat is not capable of busting up the large piles and you just kinda "skate" over the top. Ended up having to use a landscape rake to knock the piles down so the sand could dry out more enough for a drag behind a 4 wheeler to be effective. It was a ton of work and took all day.

I think that's why a lot of guys here prefer the homemade larger drags that can actually pull through the pile and get it broken up.

Next time I level, I plan to use a eco250 if I can get my hands on one for a reasonable price.

Not sure if you have leveled without the tools you used, but if you haven't, you certainly made the right choices by renting them IMO.


----------



## Deltahedge

ILoveGrits said:


> Where did you rent it from?
> 
> I moved 10 tons last year with a gorilla cart and the biggest issue I found is that a conventional drag mat is not capable of busting up the large piles and you just kinda "skate" over the top. Ended up having to use a landscape rake to knock the piles down so the sand could dry out more enough for a drag behind a 4 wheeler to be effective. It was a ton of work and took all day.
> 
> I think that's why a lot of guys here prefer the homemade larger drags that can actually pull through the pile and get it broken up.
> 
> Next time I level, I plan to use a eco250 if I can get my hands on one for a reasonable price.
> 
> Not sure if you have leveled without the tools you used, but if you haven't, you certainly made the right choices by renting them IMO.


After months of searching, I was never able to find one for rent in the Houston area. There is a company in the DFW area that rents an ECO250 out for $150/day, I found them while I was searching all of Texas for a place to rent one. I bought the ECO-250 when a composting company decided to get rid of it, and I am happy that I did.


----------



## ILoveGrits

Deltahedge said:


> After months of searching, I was never able to find one for rent in the Houston area. There is a company in the DFW area that rents an ECO250 out for $150/day, I found them while I was searching all of Texas for a place to rent one. I bought the ECO-250 when a composting company decided to get rid of it, and I am happy that I did.


Yeah good call on that buy.

You remember the name of the dfw company? Closest I could find when I looked before was in Tyler, TX.


----------



## Redtwin

@Deltahedge Wow! What a find! We looked all over for an Eco 250 when we were researching machines. There was nothing anywhere in the SE so when we saw the TurfCo we jumped on it. It's a great machine but not as good as the Eco from what I've seen.


----------



## Deltahedge

ILoveGrits said:


> Yeah good call on that buy.
> 
> You remember the name of the dfw company? Closest I could find when I looked before was in Tyler, TX.


The place I found was in Tyler, TX. Not ever having lived in DFW, I consider everything within 100 miles to be the same as DFW. I think 100 miles to rent this would be worth it if you have more than 5 tons of sand to spread.


----------



## Deltahedge

Redtwin said:


> @Deltahedge Wow! What a find! We looked all over for an Eco 250 when we were researching machines. There was nothing anywhere in the SE so when we saw the TurfCo we jumped on it. It's a great machine but not as good as the Eco from what I've seen.


I would have either bought the Turfco or the ECO, just depending on which was available to me sooner. I've seen reviews comparing them on youtube, and the review I saw with a guy who owned both brands said he preferred the TurfCo because it needs less constant adjustment. But I'm very happy with the purchase.


----------



## CLT49er

Led a leveling project for my HOA on park across the street from my house. Had 5 volunteers to run wheel barrows and was lucky enough to get sand dumped right on my targeted area. Sanded area is 10k. 8 yards. Was super bumpy and couldnt stand looking at it anymore. Neighbors on FB were wondering wtf happened to the park. Think it is fighting dollar spot so I hope this grass grows in and I dont look like an ***. It has irrigation but they havent run in maybe two years. HOA's landscaping company is supposedly turning it on tomorrow. But there is busted heads and whatever else. Fingers crossed.

Made a drag out of 2x4s. Had some netting stuff I put under but that didnt last long with the heavy damp sand. The drag worked great.


----------



## Twangin

Read through several pages of this thread and I'm looking for some info on leveling my backyard BEFORE installing 5K sqft of new Bermuda sod. It's new construction so the overall grade is good but the main thing that needs to be taken care of is 3 valleys all in a row about 15ft x 2ft in size each, probably 3" deep at worse. Water definitely collects in this area when we have heavy rains. 
What is the recommended material to fill these deep type areas in with before I lay the sod- soil or sand?


----------



## Mightyquinn

I would go with sand as it will help with any drainage issues you might have in the future. I'm assuming you probably already have sand since you are in Eastern NC. Also, adding sand will help you get a truer level as soil has organic matter in it and will break down over time and you will just have to use sand anyway to level those areas.


----------



## Twangin

Mightyquinn said:


> I would go with sand as it will help with any drainage issues you might have in the future. I'm assuming you probably already have sand since you are in Eastern NC. Also, adding sand will help you get a truer level as soil has organic matter in it and will break down over time and you will just have to use sand anyway to level those areas.


Perfect- thanks! Definitely plenty access to sand around here. I see a gorilla cart purchase in my very near future!


----------



## bp2878

4 yards put down today. No kids home to help. 100 degrees, Exhausted!!! Glad it's done.


----------



## ILoveGrits

Deltahedge said:


> The place I found was in Tyler, TX. Not ever having lived in DFW, I consider everything within 100 miles to be the same as DFW. I think 100 miles to rent this would be worth it if you have more than 5 tons of sand to spread.


Perfect, thank you.


----------



## Patrck17

Another recovery question. My daughter's birthday party is June 26th and I tentatively have aeration planned for this Thursday (17th) and 5 cubic yards of sand to be delivered Saturday.

I am not too worried about how the lawn will look, but we are going to have kids in the back yard running between the pool and a bounce house which will be on the lawn, so not exactly wanting a sand trap back there, nor would I want to stress the grass with the traffic.

If I had to I could probably set up the bounce house right on the patio edge so not much lawn traffic.

Any thoughts?


----------



## Ccualumni

I have leveled a few spots in my yard and did my front yard last year. I use an atv and a gorilla cart.

My question is about knocking the mounds of sand down. 
My drag mat goes right over the mounds of sand so I have to use a shovel or rake to spread the sand around. I spread some earlier this year and after shoveling it around, I still had small mounds. 
Do I need to add weight to my drag mat or what should I do to help spread the sand out?

Thanks


----------



## bp2878

Ccualumni said:


> I have leveled a few spots in my yard and did my front yard last year. I use an atv and a gorilla cart.
> 
> My question is about knocking the mounds of sand down.
> My drag mat goes right over the mounds of sand so I have to use a shovel or rake to spread the sand around. I spread some earlier this year and after shoveling it around, I still had small mounds.
> Do I need to add weight to my drag mat or what should I do to help spread the sand out?
> 
> Thanks


I lay 2 35# weights on my drag mat on the initial drag to help spread it out, but that is after I rake the piles out the best I can. I drug for about 20 laps around the yard and still had to go back and rake some more. It's just part of it, rake-drag-rake-drag and repeat the next day for about three days to really get it right. Threw some broom work in there too. Weight on the mat will help, but raking out the piles is just something you're going to have to do multiple times. I would get a 36" wide leveling rake, I've done 3 leveling jobs on my lawn and I think this tool is essential. I feel like the landscape rake puts the sand where it needs to be, not the drag mat. The mat smooths it out and works it in.


----------



## Ccualumni

bp2878 said:


> Ccualumni said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have leveled a few spots in my yard and did my front yard last year. I use an atv and a gorilla cart.
> 
> My question is about knocking the mounds of sand down.
> My drag mat goes right over the mounds of sand so I have to use a shovel or rake to spread the sand around. I spread some earlier this year and after shoveling it around, I still had small mounds.
> Do I need to add weight to my drag mat or what should I do to help spread the sand out?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> I lay 2 35# weights on my drag mat on the initial drag to help spread it out, but that is after I rake the piles out the best I can. I drug for about 20 laps around the yard and still had to go back and rake some more. It's just part of it, rake-drag-rake-drag and repeat the next day for about three days to really get it right. Threw some broom work in there too. Weight on the mat will help, but raking out the piles is just something you're going to have to do multiple times. I would get a 36" wide leveling rake, I've done 3 leveling jobs on my lawn and I think this tool is essential. I feel like the landscape rake puts the sand where it needs to be, not the drag mat. The mat smooths it out and works it in.
Click to expand...

I have the landscape rack as well as the leveling rake. I did some last weekend and used a shovel to kind of throw dirt off the piles to spread it. I think the combination of all techniques kept me from being sore.

I will have to look into a broom as I believe I saw that before and it had great results.

One question… you mentioned doing it multiple days in a row. So if I get it all done tomorrow, Saturday, I should go back and work on it more Sunday and possibly Monday? I guess to find tune it?

Thanks


----------



## bp2878

@Ccualumni in my limited experience, yes. I noticed I had some sand that was just kinda sitting on top of grass that had grown up so I worked those areas in with the broom. Also had some areas that look a little mound-ish after a few watering sessions so I went after them with the rake and drag to get them back right. The sand will shift around due to watering and rain and will also settle exposing spots you thought you had enough in but didn't. I saw it as something that definitely couldn't hurt and didn't take long to do.


----------



## bp2878

Sanded on Monday, this is only 4 days later. Crazy how fast it rebounds.


----------



## Ccualumni

bp2878 said:


> @Ccualumni in my limited experience, yes. I noticed I had some sand that was just kinda sitting on top of grass that had grown up so I worked those areas in with the broom. Also had some areas that look a little mound-ish after a few watering sessions so I went after them with the rake and drag to get them back right. The sand will shift around due to watering and rain and will also settle exposing spots you thought you had enough in but didn't. I saw it as something that definitely couldn't hurt and didn't take long to do.


Thanks for the information. I plan on going back out tomorrow and working on it some.


----------



## Duckman501

Clt49er - hows that level rebound comin along? Im curious to see progress.


----------



## vallecrucis

What HOC do you guys start back with once you can mow again post leveling? Do you continue with where you were or raise up a bit and reset later?


----------



## tomckey

So, I've been trolling for a few weeks, and finally joined. Thank you all for some great posts, I've learned quite a bit.

I have a question for the collective wisdom here. I had a new home built in NTX late last year. Tifway 419 sod, which is doing well. Typically using a 1" HOC, with a Cal Trimmer Reel Mower, and have just starting using PGR.

Our soil is terrible, just hard clay. When I did my first level this May, I used a 50/50 sand compost mix. I knew I was going to lose some volume due to the organics breaking down, and I did, but with the soil being so poor, I thought that it would be best. The grass seemed to respond very well, but I did concentrate mainly on the problem low areas. I never leveled before, and used 6 yards over 9,000 Sq Ft. I don't have deep ruts, but I joke that I have low rolling hills. Makes going below 1' HOC a pain in the ***. The dips range from 1 - 4 inches.

I'll be doing a second level this year, likely come August, and am debating all sand vs another mix. I have poor drainage, and just have concerns with sand on top of this clay. I did aerate before the last level, and will do so again this time.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts on sand vs the mix!


----------



## bp2878

vallecrucis said:


> What HOC do you guys start back with once you can mow again post leveling? Do you continue with where you were or raise up a bit and reset later?


I'm planning to cut around 5/8 until I'm fully recovered. Then scalp to .25 and maintain at .375. If you go too low too soon, you will ruin your knife and need a grind on your reel.


----------



## Patrck17

I just finished a smaller patch in my backyard after having a frustrating time with the front this weekend. Some lessons learned:

1. Don't even think of doing this without a landscape rake. I did front pushing the sand around with a normal rake and the drag mat and it just isn't the right way to do it.

2. Do not use a leaf rake on your grass pretty much ever. I did this to pick up the cores after I aerated. I basically ripped up the stolons all over the place defeating the purpose of the scalp. Made it harder to level.

3. Do not go light on the sand. If it is getting tough to spread like it is too thin then you need to add more sand. Use the drag mat and landscape rake later to move the excess around.

Pretty much it. Those were my major mistakes. I still have one region to go. It is a ton of work.


----------



## CLT49er

Duckman501 said:


> Clt49er - hows that level rebound comin along? Im curious to see progress.


7 days later. Only 4 days of water due to irrigation issues. Not too bad. Need to do this again as this park is so bad. I am just glad it grew back so fast so 300 neighbors on the HOA facebook werent bashing me. Quite the opposite reaction. They all want help with their yards. 😝 I applied 1lb on N from a starter fertilizer. Grass exploded with that. You can see the dark green in the middle versus the outside area I didnt touch. This confirms to me the lawn service is weak on their applications. This is a cool area for kids playing sports and stuff. Turf needs this help.


----------



## Philly_Gunner

CLT49er said:


> Duckman501 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Clt49er - hows that level rebound comin along? Im curious to see progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 7 days later. Only 4 days of water due to irrigation issues. Not too bad. Need to do this again as this park is so bad. I am just glad it grew back so fast so 300 neighbors on the HOA facebook werent bashing me. Quite the opposite reaction. They all want help with their yards. 😝 I applied 1lb on N from a starter fertilizer. Grass exploded with that. You can see the dark green in the middle versus the outside area I didnt touch. This confirms to me the lawn service is weak on their applications. This is a cool area for kids playing sports and stuff. Turf needs this help.
Click to expand...

Did you use mason sand? Almost looks more like a cushion sand from the pics. Anywho, great job!


----------



## CLT49er

Yes. Mason sand. At least thats what they called it. Was pretty clean. It did get clumpy in heavy spots. Not sure what thats about.


----------



## vallecrucis

CLT49er said:


> Yes. Mason sand. At least thats what they called it. Was pretty clean. It did get clumpy in heavy spots. Not sure what thats about.


I'm in Raleigh NC and my mason sand had that exact same look. I noticed others in the thread had a lighter looking sand, not sure if different regions have different colors or what. It seems to have worked pretty well so far. After 2 weeks it's about 90% filled in, there are some lower areas I imagine will take maybe a month or so.


----------



## burnhagw

In Waxhaw that is what my sand looked like too and they called it Mason sand, it might have been morter sand though lol. I liked it and thought it was good quality for leveling.


----------



## Ccualumni

burnhagw said:


> In Waxhaw that is what my sand looked like too and they called it Mason sand, it might have been morter sand though lol. I liked it and thought it was good quality for leveling.


Where did you get the sand?


----------



## burnhagw

Ccualumni said:


> burnhagw said:
> 
> 
> 
> In Waxhaw that is what my sand looked like too and they called it Mason sand, it might have been morter sand though lol. I liked it and thought it was good quality for leveling.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get the sand?
Click to expand...

I went to the place first to look at all their sand and the Red Mortor sand was very good and clean.

McCollum Trucking & Grading Inc


----------



## jpos34

First sand level this weekend. Ordered 10 yards. Feel like I got shorted but I'm not expert. What are your thoughts.


----------



## rjw0283

jpos34 said:


> First sand level this weekend. Ordered 10 yards. Feel like I got shorted but I'm not expert. What are your thoughts.


This is 3 yards. Yours it at least twice of that, and could be wider... That may be 10 Yds. Keep in mind that their unit of measurement is a bucket. It's all a guestimate. They don't usually weigh anything.


----------



## Patrck17

I begrudgingly went back and leveled the front again. This time with a little more experience. I must have dumped at a rate of at least 1.5yd/1000k. It does look better though. Well better as a leveling job. Worse as a lawn lols.


----------



## Patrck17

@jpos34

I had 5 dumped last week. Looks close to twice that maybe?


----------



## jpos34

Thanks @rjw0283 @Patrck17 after seeing yalls I feel better that I didn't get short changed. That stuffs expensive to not get what you paid for.


----------



## Redtwin

That looks like 10 yards to me. I don't think you got shorted.


----------



## rjw0283

Yeah. I agree. This picture shows it better. That's a lot of sand!


----------



## lynchburg14

I did my level on Friday the 18th and this coming Monday the 28th I am scheduled for my next round of PGR. Should I skip this one or put it down?


----------



## Mightyquinn

How much of the grass is showing through? If it's more than 75% I would go ahead with the PGR. You don't want to get behind the power curve


----------



## vallecrucis

Mightyquinn said:


> How much of the grass is showing through? If it's more than 75% I would go ahead with the PGR. You don't want to get behind the power curve


Similar question for me - what is your experience with sand leveling and PGR? If I'm about 80% filled in (some lower spots taking longer) does the PGR hinder that any at all? Fill it in faster?


----------



## ReelMowLow74

vallecrucis said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> How much of the grass is showing through? If it's more than 75% I would go ahead with the PGR. You don't want to get behind the power curve
> 
> 
> 
> Similar question for me - what is your experience with sand leveling and PGR? If I'm about 80% filled in (some lower spots taking longer) does the PGR hinder that any at all? Fill it in faster?
Click to expand...

I sprayed PGR when I still had a fair amount of grow in needed and had a ton of sandy spots. I didn't see any issues and if anything, I think the PGR forced horizontal growth and the fill in may have benefitted from it.


----------



## Mightyquinn

ReelMowLow74 said:


> vallecrucis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> How much of the grass is showing through? If it's more than 75% I would go ahead with the PGR. You don't want to get behind the power curve
> 
> 
> 
> Similar question for me - what is your experience with sand leveling and PGR? If I'm about 80% filled in (some lower spots taking longer) does the PGR hinder that any at all? Fill it in faster?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I sprayed PGR when I still had a fair amount of grow in needed and had a ton of sandy spots. I didn't see any issues and if anything, I think the PGR forced horizontal growth and the fill in may have benefitted from it.
Click to expand...

This is what I have seen too!


----------



## jpos34

I'm gathering everything together that I'm gonna need for the job this weekend. Can't any 46-0-0. The place I usually get it from is out at the moment. Will 33-0-0 work just as good?


----------



## Kicker

jpos34 said:


> I'm gathering everything together that I'm gonna need for the job this weekend. Can't any 46-0-0. The place I usually get it from is out at the moment. Will 33-0-0 work just as good?


I would venture to say that nitrogen is nitrogen is nitrogen. you'll be fine.


----------



## jpos34

Kicker said:


> jpos34 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gathering everything together that I'm gonna need for the job this weekend. Can't any 46-0-0. The place I usually get it from is out at the moment. Will 33-0-0 work just as good?
> 
> 
> 
> I would venture to say that nitrogen is nitrogen is nitrogen. you'll be fine.
Click to expand...

 Good enough for me, trying my best to not screw this up :lol:


----------



## lynchburg14

:thumbup:


Mightyquinn said:


> How much of the grass is showing through? If it's more than 75% I would go ahead with the PGR. You don't want to get behind the power curve


----------



## Ccualumni

burnhagw said:


> Ccualumni said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> burnhagw said:
> 
> 
> 
> In Waxhaw that is what my sand looked like too and they called it Mason sand, it might have been morter sand though lol. I liked it and thought it was good quality for leveling.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get the sand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I went to the place first to look at all their sand and the Red Mortor sand was very good and clean.
> 
> McCollum Trucking & Grading Inc
Click to expand...

I usually go to Visions, but can try there


----------



## jpos34

I scalped it as low as the Tru Cut would get for the level tomorrow. Is everyone in agreement it's gonna grow right back through the sand ?


----------



## SeanBB

@jpos34 totally. Looks great! good job.


----------



## ReelMowLow74

Absolutely!! It's hard to see at first but trust the process

This was my first time and I'm already excited for my next level project.

5/27/2021




6/22/2021


----------



## rjw0283

Question for the group....
Sand Leveled 4 weeks ago. 
Has anyone experienced weed germination specifically crabgrass after they did a heavy sand level?
It's definitely from the sand. 
I haven't had crabgrass in years, the backyard that didn't get leveled has 0 crabgrass. 
Applied Prodiamine in March. (Low rate, like I always do.) I applied Gallery in April to prevent everything else. 
I did another app of Prodiamine today. (Low rate again) And another low rate of Gallery to prevent any other seeds that were in the sand from germinating. 
I'll just hand pull it as it comes. Maybe next time I'll do a Pre-E App after the sand has settled in.


----------



## Mightyquinn

I'm having some crabgrass pop up in my lawn too but I didn't apply any PreM since I was laying sod. I also have some sedges popping up too. I just plan on blanket spraying Celsius/Certainty here in a few weeks once all the sand has settled and I'm mostly green again. I figure between that and once I start applying PGR to thicken and tighten up the grass, weeds won't really stand a chance.


----------



## jpos34

10 yards of sand gone. I could have used a lot more. I guess anything helps. Now ready to see what the transformation looks like.


----------



## Ccualumni

Do you all do anything to the area on day 2 and day 3 after leveling? Someone mentioned working on it for day 2.


----------



## rjw0283

Ccualumni said:


> Do you all do anything to the area on day 2 and day 3 after leveling? Someone mentioned working on it for day 2.


Usually just adding more sand to problem areas or work the sand in a little more in certain areas.


----------



## Mightyquinn

I posted this originally in my Journal thread but thought since it was relevant, figured I would post this here too.

I have been dealing with wet sand for the most part through this leveling project. It rained a little bit Friday morning and they delivered the sand Friday afternoon so I'm sure it didn't have time to dry out and then it rained as I was coming home from work too which delayed me getting started early. @touchofgrass was able to cover the sand with some tarps before the rain came so I'm sure that helped some.

We were able to get started about 1800 on Friday and got the backyard started but with the wet sand and not a whole lot of sun that late in the evening it wasn't really drying out which made trying to drag it in quite a PIA as it doesn't like to spread very well and it clumps up in the drag mat too.

We started this morning at 0900 and continued with dumping like 6-8 carts of sand and then taking the drag mat over those areas to help spread it out to help it dry out too. We had sand on most of the lawn by 1200 and the sun was just starting to come out which was good and bad. Good that it was drying up the sand making it easier to spread but also made it hotter outside to work. We took a lunch bread at 1200 and to let the sand dry too, we went back out at 1400 and the sand was considerably dryer and made spreading it with the drag mat a dream and I was able to see what other areas needed more sand.

From 1400-1800 we would put out 6-8 buckets of sand, drag it out and then take a break to let it dry out and then drag it again and then start the whole process all over again. It made the job take a lot longer then it normally does but we were able to take a lot of breaks which was nice as I never really felt worn out during the whole thing. After dumping a load of sand the wife would take a come-along(Concrete Rake) to help spread the sand out while I was getting another load. It seemed to work pretty good.

About 90% of the sand has been used and for the most part the lawn is done. I still need to do the Hell Strip and get some sand in the corners and edges which I plan on doing tomorrow after church. i also plan to drag the lawn again tomorrow as the last batch we put down didn't dry all the way out so it still needs dragged and settled in some. I also plan to run my 48" Leveling Rake over the lawn in a few directions for the final touch and then run the irrigation. I will post updated pictures tomorrow after everything is cleaned up and smoothed out.

BEFORE









AFTER


----------



## bp2878

Something I did that seems to have worked well, I mixed vermiculite in with the sand in the area above my septic tank. My tank is very shallow and this area drys out and browns well before anywhere else. May be too soon to tell, but this seams to have worked very well. No browning in that area, it's the greenest grass in the lawn now.


----------



## Beerman219

When your best friend comes from Texas to visit for the day! He said what projects do you need help on? Let's level the back yard! Not bad for the first time.


----------



## jpos34

I leveled my lawn 1 week ago. Here are some pics and dates for reference. My yard has filled in what I would consider considerably quick. Around the edges of the sidewalk and driveway some of those spots are over 2 inches in some areas. We have had a lot of rain since the level so sand hasn't had time to dry out yet and you can still see some low spots where water is standing. In one of the pics it's almost looks like a fungus is forming because the sand hasn't gotten a chance to dry out any. I would like to get your thoughts on that as well as if it's time to put down the PGR. The areas that I mentioned around the driveway and sidewalks that are over 2 inches thick can I expect the grass to grow back through or am gonna rely on spread from the edges? If so do you think these big areas will fill in before end of season? What can be done to make them spread quicker? And Will the spread into the sand without the soil.

Initial scalp June 25



Leveling day June 26





June 29





July 2





Is this a fungus?



I'm happy with how fast it's recovered just worried about the larger deeper spots. Also want to know should I just cut with rotary right now and not the reel? Either way do I just go around the non filled in areas? The sand hasn't firmed up in the deeper areas and it would just mess up the level job pushing the mower through.


----------



## KDF0420

Firrst time poster but long time reader. I'm going to be leveling my 8000 sq ft. Tiftuf Bermuda this weekend with 10 yards mason sand. The plan is to mow at normal cutting height .625. Verticut with sharpened sunjoe at the -5 setting. Scalp at .350. Aerate and remove cores, then start spreading sand. I have some 33-0-0 that will be applied after the sand is spread. Does this sound like a good plan?


----------



## Philly_Gunner

KDF0420 said:


> Firrst time poster but long time reader. I'm going to be leveling my 8000 sq ft. Tiftuf Bermuda this weekend with 10 yards mason sand. The plan is to mow at normal cutting height .625. Verticut with sharpened sunjoe at the -5 setting. Scalp at .350. Aerate and remove cores, then start spreading sand. I have some 33-0-0 that will be applied after the sand is spread. Does this sound like a good plan?


Sounds like a perfect plan.


----------



## Hoghead22

I'm curious to what you are verticutting with? Is this an attachment for a sunjoe dethatcher or a modified scarifier?

I am also about to begin that process on my 7K sq ft front and back yard.


----------



## KDF0420

Hoghead22 said:


> I'm curious to what you are verticutting with? Is this an attachment for a sunjoe dethatcher or a modified scarifier?
> 
> I am also about to begin that process on my 7K sq ft front and back yard.


It's the blade attachment for the sunjoe. I've just sharpened the blades as many have done on this forum. Seems to be working good!


----------



## Rooster

6 yards of sand are being delivered Friday for my yard and two neighbors, ~7ksqft. And it's likely to be soaking wet, as they store the sand outside and it is going to rain some every day the rest of the week.

Just how much trouble am I in for trying to level with wet sand? We will be armed with rakes, brooms, a leveling rake, and a gorilla cart.


----------



## Kicker

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> 6 yards of sand are being delivered Friday for my yard and two neighbors, ~7ksqft. And it's likely to be soaking wet, as they store the sand outside and it is going to rain some every day the rest of the week.
> 
> Just how much trouble am I in for trying to level with wet sand? We will be armed with rakes, brooms, a leveling rake, and a gorilla cart.


Bulk sand is almost always going to be a little wet. I think they wet it down at the yard to keep it from blowing away maybe or to just keep the overall dust in the area down, I don't really know?

You'll be fine with the equipment you have. Dump it in sections with the gorilla cart, use the landscape rake to try and knock down the piles to allow it to dry out. Once it's dry do a final spread with the leveling rake and broom it in.

That's what I would do anyway. Good luck. Keep in mind, (depending on the size of the gorilla cart) with manual tools like this smaller piles are easier to manipulate.


----------



## Rooster

Kicker said:


> Bulk sand is almost always going to be a little wet. I think they wet it down at the yard to keep it from blowing away maybe or to just keep the overall dust in the area down, I don't really know?
> 
> You'll be fine with the equipment you have. Dump it in sections with the gorilla cart, use the landscape rake to try and knock down the piles to allow it to dry out. Once it's dry do a final spread with the leveling rake and broom it in.
> 
> That's what I would do anyway. Good luck.


Thanks! How long can it sit and smother the canopy before the leveling rake and broom? At some point I figure I'm doing more damage to the turf. Asking because we may not see much sun on the day of or even the day after, and will probably see more rain.


----------



## Kicker

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> Kicker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bulk sand is almost always going to be a little wet. I think they wet it down at the yard to keep it from blowing away maybe or to just keep the overall dust in the area down, I don't really know?
> 
> You'll be fine with the equipment you have. Dump it in sections with the gorilla cart, use the landscape rake to try and knock down the piles to allow it to dry out. Once it's dry do a final spread with the leveling rake and broom it in.
> 
> That's what I would do anyway. Good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! How long can it sit and smother the canopy before the leveling rake and broom? At some point I figure I'm doing more damage to the turf. Asking because we may not see much sun on the day of or even the day after, and will probably see more rain.
Click to expand...

2 days isn't going to hurt it that much but I would try to get it spread as much as you can as best you can.


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## a_chan

Question for anyone that's done it: Is there any downside to scalping an entire lawn with a string trimmer? I have about 1.1k sqft of yard that is fairly bumpy with leggy common Bermuda. I'm planning the level for next season and trying to figure out if I can take it down to full dirt across the yard for the first leveling.


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## Redtwin

a_chan said:


> Question for anyone that's done it: Is there any downside to scalping an entire lawn with a string trimmer? I have about 1.1k sqft of yard that is fairly bumpy with leggy common Bermuda. I'm planning the level for next season and trying to figure out if I can take it down to full dirt across the yard for the first leveling.


It's a pain but definitely the way to go if you don't have a reel mower and want to take it to dirt. For only 1K sf, I would do it.


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## cyrjm

I actually started my own thread on my leveling project but wanted to post here. Here's my plan with some questions/concerns:

11k sqft Royal TXD Bermuda north of Atlanta, main goal is to address drainage issues as I have major runoff, water has nowhere to go.

- Scalping as low as I can with a Honda rotary and manual Fiskars reel mower
- Deep core aeration by a local contractor
- Dethatch and break up cores with a Greenworks dethatcher
- Ordered 1 ton of sand per 1k, spread on day 1 and let dry
- Day 2 drag/rake/broom to get sand down the aeration holes and level (again, main goal here is drainage...leveling is a plus)
- Apply 34-0-0 fert/water

Questions:

- Just got back in town after 2 weeks of vacation, have some fungus since it's been so wet. Just applied Heritage G and will let it do it's thing for a couple days. Am I ok to scalp this weekend? Should I wait until right before my aeration?

- What rate and type of fertilizer should I be using?

- How often/long should I be watering?

- Since this entire lawn is from seed and I have some seed handy, can I drop some in bare spots? If so, should I put on top of sand or below sand?


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## agrassman

These are 11 days apart on my Zorro Zoysia leveling. I mowed last night with a rotary at a higher HOC as I let it fill in. Extremely happy so far in the progress.


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## JayGo

Tomorrow, it'll be 2 weeks since I did another leveling on my lawn.


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## monsonman

JayGo said:


> Tomorrow, it'll be 2 weeks since I did another leveling on my lawn.


looks good. How many times have you levelled?


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## JayGo

@monsonman, thank you sir.

This was the 4th time. First time took 9 yards. Second and third times were 3 yards each for touching up.
But I removed two trees last year, so I needed to bring up some spots where the ground settled a lot


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## gooodawgs

I did 18 tons yesterday on about 16k sq ft of bermuda. Could have used more but the max load on the truck was 18 tons, so I'll wait on next season to add a little more. Always a satisfying tasks, but some key learning - 
I had 1 truck deliver 18 tons as it was $34 a ton and no addtl delivery fee. But because it was so big, I didnt want it on my driveway and had them dump on the front yard and street area. So saved a little money vs 2 trucks, but it made for a much longer trip hauling the sand to the backyard. Next time I'll go back to 2 or 3 trucks, pay the extra delivery fee and save hours of hauling. Even with 3 high schoolers plus me this took 5 hours to spread.


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## LushTurf

I just finished sand leveling my front two sections that are about 6.5k sq ft each. We've gotten dry here in the last week with a heat wave. So I've water it once yesterday and once today. I think I've drug it and smoothed it as much as I can for now. So I think I'm ready (actually I'm not ready because I just realized my Agri-fab push spreader gear box has messed up since last time I used and cleaned it  ) to put some fertilizer on it, and water it again. Sorry if I've missed it in this thread, but what is the recommended fertilizer dose after a sand level? One section is Celebration and the other is common Bermuda.

Are there any other pointers? Thanks for the help.


----------



## cyrjm

So I just finished sanding my front yard, not really a level with the main objective to address major drainage issues. I paid to have a company (who specializes in "leveling" lawns) come out and do a deep core aeration since they are the only ones in the area with a ride on aerator (Toro). Well, they suck...only did one pass and I was able to flag them down and tell them to get their equipment back out to finish the job. Truly wasn't "deep" at all but I spread my sand regardless. The last 2 days we have had monster storms come through and I'm having the same exact issue with drainage on a hillside, the other areas are actually draining much better. I've already spread 14 tons of sand (10 sqft) and am thinking of renting an aerator from HD tomorrow and just redoing the roughly 3k sqft before the slope. I don't believe the slope is the issue, its' the issue of water runoff from the top part of the yard. Would it be a waste of time to re-aerate the areas that I already spread sand?


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## wiseowl

Summer champions if you're leveling in the middle of summer, I don't even want to go out and now and it's only 85 lol


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## cyrjm

104 heat index the day I spread out the first 10 tons. Was brutal!


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## Lawn Burgundy

25T coming tomorrow have friday and monday off 10K sqft lets do it


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## wiseowl

Lawn Burgundy said:


> 25T coming tomorrow have friday and monday off 10K sqft lets do it


It's like you guys pray for death 😂


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## Lawn Burgundy

In preparation, i aerated and colleted the cores from a double pass on 10K sqft.


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## Superfalc

Lawn Burgundy said:


> In preparation, i aerated and colleted the cores from a double pass on 10K sqft.


Those cores are nice


----------



## CenlaLowell

Need some advice leveling this


Only have 7 tons of sand coming tomorrow. What are y'all suggestions? I cut today at 2.5 inches and I'm thinking the brown areas need the most sand... Is this correct??


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## ReelMowLow74

I actually think it's the opposite, the green areas are the lower spots and are what would need the sand. Brown would indicate higher areas and result from cutting lower on the grass blade.

I would try to scalp lower if you can as 2.5" is going to make it harder to work the sand down.


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## girevik

I've only leveled very little but 2.5" would be really difficult to work the sand properly, in my opinion.

Think my cut was just over 1" and even that was way too high. The lower the better for sure! Bite the bullet, scalp it as low as you possibly can, and throw the sand down.

When I level next spring in going down to 5/8 minimum. Leveling is a pain, might as well get the most out of your work.


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## CenlaLowell

ReelMowLow74 said:


> I actually think it's the opposite, the green areas are the lower spots and are what would need the sand. Brown would indicate higher areas and result from cutting lower on the grass blade.
> 
> I would try to scalp lower if you can as 2.5" is going to make it harder to work the sand down.


Thanks for the information. Never thought about it that way.


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## klsmith259

Yes, the green areas need more sand. I would also recommend going as low as you can. You may use a string trimmer to get lower if it's not feasible with your mower. With that large of a yard and that small amount of sand I would focus on certain areas first. Which takes priority over others (immediate front of house, backyard, side etc.)?

Remember leveling is not a one and done task. It will take leveling a few times a season over multiple seasons depending on how drastic the bumps and ruts are. Bermuda will grow through it and spread but if you are adding 1+ inches of sand in areas it will take time (not a couple of days or potentially a week) for it to fill in depending on how thick and lush your yard is currently.


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## Redtwin

I had to scalp my Tifway 419 in my courtyard area so I went ahead and did a quick touch-up level to try to bring it up to sidewalk level all the way down the line.


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## littlehuman

Does anyone hang on to leftover/excess sand? What do you store it in?


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## Redtwin

I create a play area for my youngest son to play in until I need to use it next.


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## CenlaLowell

Ended up with 7 yards of river sand. I'm on break man this is killing me


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## klsmith259

A gorilla cart is your friend. With a large lawn like yours I would recommend renting a dingo or some sort of scoop loader depending on how far you are transporting the sand. A drag mat is extremely helpful pulling it behind a 4 wheeler, lawn mower, etc. It trumps a leveling rake. It will make quick and easy work of the actual leveling part. With the drag mat you do not need to worry about spreading it perfectly before hand etc. You just need to get the sand to the parts where you are leveling. Lastly, since this appears to be your first time leveling you will not achieve perfection and I wouldn't worry about it. It will need to be done again depending on how level you are striving for your lawn to be.


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## Amoo316

Free leveling sand ftw, this is what I did today.


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## CPOx

I had today off from work + all next week as well, so I started my first sand leveling project today so I could keep a close eye on things throughout the week. Only tackling 5k sqft of the front yard since it's just me working on this.

Ordered 5 yards of masonry sand and I still have about 1 yard left. It's supposed to rain 1" tomorrow so I'll see what washes out and settles. I have areas in the backyard desperately needing some sand too.

As low as I could go with my HRX217 without hitting dirt. I normally keep it 2 notches higher to avoid crop circles. 


5 yards of masonry sand delivered. $52/yd + $60 delivery fee. Quality was very good.


Smothered low spots. My goal is to get the low spots filled in, not get a perfectly flat surface. No sand on the strip near the road because I think the slope would just have everything run off into the ditch.


And now .... a well deserved SLEEP.


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## CenlaLowell

CPOx said:


> I had today off from work + all next week as well, so I started my first sand leveling project today so I could keep a close eye on things throughout the week. Only tackling 5k sqft of the front yard since it's just me working on this.
> 
> Ordered 5 yards of masonry sand and I still have about 1 yard left. It's supposed to rain 1" tomorrow so I'll see what washes out and settles. I have areas in the backyard desperately needing some sand too.
> 
> As low as I could go with my HRX217 without hitting dirt. I normally keep it 2 notches higher to avoid crop circles.
> 
> 
> 5 yards of masonry sand delivered. $52/yd + $60 delivery fee. Quality was very good.
> 
> 
> Smothered low spots. My goal is to get the low spots filled in, not get a perfectly flat surface. No sand on the strip near the road because I think the slope would just have everything run off into the ditch.
> 
> 
> And now .... a well deserved SLEEP.


Great price on the sand over here it went up. 26$/yard plus delivery fee.


----------



## Two_Rivers

Tackled the front lawn only yesterday. Glad for hot temps for a quick recovery but was literally waiting for big clouds to provide shade and then rest during the sun beat downs.


----------



## Redtwin

The topdresser is being used by one of the other owners so I did it the hard way with my gorilla cart. It needed to go down heavy anyway so it worked out. Top dressing in early August is not for the feint of heart.



I'll do the rest of the yard with a lighter coat once I get the machine back.


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## Ware

Looking great all!


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## Amoo316

Somebody needs to drive by @CenlaLowell 's house and make sure there's not a body in the yard.


----------



## Hoghead22

Quick question…… what do y'all level with if you don't have one of those handy leveling rakes? What have y'all found to be the best tool?


----------



## Two_Rivers

If you don't have access to a leveling rake or drag mat you could use a wood plank that's at least a few feet long to get a good level and then a push broom to work it into the canopy.


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## Amoo316

I like a nice landscape rake personally.


----------



## CenlaLowell

Amoo316 said:


> Somebody needs to drive by @CenlaLowell 's house and make sure there's not a body in the yard.


Lol, nah I made it. Brutal man. This sand doesn't go very far either. I watched a lawn tools video and they had 20 tons delivered at one time. Maybe I need more at every delivery.


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## CenlaLowell

Hoghead22 said:


> Quick question…… what do y'all level with if you don't have one of those handy leveling rakes? What have y'all found to be the best tool?


I use a landscaping rake and a drag mat


----------



## Keith E Cantrell

My garden is mostly Bermuda, and it's good. It has a couple of bare patches though. I've forwarded the leveling issue for these couple of small spots. I was also advised that sand helps Bermuda grow. Should I be doing anything else? No individual spot is particularly large, so I haven't gone for sod yet. Just trying to promote a little growth. I also like to know about your lawn waste removal options. I normally go for cleaning service for my garden in-house and the lawn owned by me after the winter seasons. I saw some people had made fire pits for this purpose. Your suggestions are invited.


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## Lawn Burgundy

so 25Tons was not fun at all, next year a topdresser and a dingo is in the cards


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## klsmith259

@Lawn Burgundy No way I would do 25 tons (21 cu. yds) by myself without a dingo. At least you had the range rover.


----------



## Lawn Burgundy

klsmith259 said:


> @Lawn Burgundy No way I would do 25 tons (21 cu. yds) by myself without a dingo. At least you had the range rover.


oh yea the Range came in clutch! :lol:


----------



## wiseowl

Damn @Redtwin I was thinking of scalping but felt it was too late for my 419 and here you are getting after it and burying it 😂

We've had cold fronts rolling in at night so getting big gdd swings but no real growth. I really want to scalp it ... Maybe this weekend.


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## Redtwin

@wiseowl, we still have at least 8 to 10 weeks of full growth season left. Things will slow down in October but at the current rate, it will grow through in a week or two so plenty of time left. I didn't even worry about adjusting my T-Nex apps. I just kept the PGR going at normal rates. It will still grow through with no issues.


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## cnet24

How soon should you wait before sanding new sod? I had new sod laid two days ago and our contractor did not do the best job leveling and therefore I have a ton of low spots that are collecting water and creating spongy areas. Additionally, I am hoping the sand will create some structure in between my clay and the topsoil used by the landscaper, which was basically mulch at the end of the day.


----------



## Bombers

I would lift the sod from the low areas and backfill with topsoil now before roots establish any further. You want to fix that now instead of waiting and piling on inches of sand bandaging drainage issues. You can sand the seams now as well if you want to use your reel right away. Do a couple charity mows and use your JD's weight and roller to pack it in. Alternatively, I've seen a guy in a FB group do a full level right after sodding as well and it turned out great.


----------



## CPOx

10 day progress update. I fertilized after applying the sand so it didn't surprise me that it took 7+ days to really get going again. Ended up getting plenty of rain over the last 3 days which certainly helped as well.

August 6 2021


August 16 2021


----------



## CenlaLowell

Another one but this is wet river sand and I hate it. I will neverake that mistake again


----------



## Reel_Alabama

I may be over thinking my upcoming leveling but I have a question for you dog owners. Did you keep your dogs off of your yards until it had fully recovered? I have one young energetic lab. Thanks.


----------



## Mightyquinn

I never have and never noticed any issues. I've had German Shepherds so very similar in size.


----------



## Reel_Alabama

Mightyquinn said:


> I never have and never noticed any issues. I've had German Shepherds so very similar in size.


Good to know. Thanks for the response.


----------



## wokka59

If your lawn is quite small a levelling tool works really well
Thankjs

Wokka


----------



## ReelBeard94

EARLY TOP DRESS WARM SEASON: I most definitely need some help. I have Common Bermuda and unfortunately I will be traveling for work from spring to fall. On the fortunate side I have the wife to tend and cut the lawn this year. But due to my unfortunate situation I plan to top dress here within the next week or so. I'm only doing the front lawn and that's approx 2,000 sqft. Here's the plan….

Granular Premergant today 2/9/22 (watered in)
Scalp approx a week later
Apply liquid Dimension Premergant day of scalp or day after
Then apply Yard Masteries Granular Stress Blend 7-0-20 (watered in) or apply after top dress
Then Top dress with masonry sand
Heavy heavy treatment of The Anderson Humichar
Water in
First green up apply a 16-0-8

I feel the Bermuda will be strong enough to push through all of this but would love some reassurance. Throw out your opinions guys what'ya think?


----------



## ReelBeard94

EARLY TOP DRESS WARM SEASON: I most definitely need some help. I have Common Bermuda and unfortunately I will be traveling for work from spring to fall. On the fortunate side I have the wife to tend and cut the lawn this year. But due to my unfortunate situation I plan to top dress here within the next week or so. I'm only doing the front lawn and that's approx 2,000 sqft. Here's the plan….

Granular Premergant today 2/9/22 (watered in)
Scalp approx a week later
Apply liquid Dimension Premergant day of scalp or day after
Then apply Yard Masteries Granular Stress Blend 7-0-20 (watered in) or apply after top dress
Then Top dress with masonry sand
Heavy heavy treatment of The Anderson Humichar
Water in
First green up apply a 16-0-8

I feel the Bermuda will be strong enough to push through all of this but would love some reassurance. Throw out your opinions guys what'ya think?


----------



## atticus

Don't go to heavy on the sand. Pray for early spring.


----------



## 2doss3

Good Morning Everyone,

I plan to do a sand level on my yard soon. I have scalped it, some places to dirt, some not. My question is when should I level it? How much green do I need to see? What about the spots that were scalped to dirt, do I need to wait until those spots are green as well?


----------



## ReelMowLow74

I'd wait until the lawn is actively growing if you can. Try to aerate first and fill the holes with sand at the same time you are leveling. I hit mine with some 21-0-0 a day before the level to give the lawn that extra push to get through. Some say to not go heavy, but I buried mine in some places last year and had no issues at all. Good luck and get ready for an *** kicking… I was sore in places I didn't know I could be sore!


----------



## Redtwin

+1 on waiting for full green up. You won't really hurt it doing it now but you will be dealing with sand in your house for a longer period and potential washout in the spring showers.


----------



## Nimblecow

ReelMowLow74 said:


> I'd wait until the lawn is actively growing if you can. Try to aerate first and fill the holes with sand at the same time you are leveling. I hit mine with some 21-0-0 a day before the level to give the lawn that extra push to get through. Some say to not go heavy, but I buried mine in some places last year and had no issues at all. Good luck and get ready for an @ss kicking… I was sore in places I didn't know I could be sore!


What's a reasonable depth you can add in one leveling session? Say there's a low area that you wish was higher. Could you add 1" of material there at one time? Or do less and get there in a couple sessions.

I'm thinking about going 50/50 sand/loam in the deep areas based on Doc's video where he raised a 1-2" area. And pure sand elsewhere in spots that need lighter smoothing.


----------



## Bombers

His advice on that is sound. I wouldn't do pure sand for spots deeper than 1 inch because it doesn't pack and hold that well as soil.


----------



## Redtwin

I disagree with mixing the deeper spots. They will settle even more with that much OM. I buried my 419 several inches deep with 100% pure sand and it grew through just fine and leveled well. Shameless plug: Check out my Hurricane Recovery Journal for photos if wanted.


----------



## ReelMowLow74

Same here… I had some pretty deep areas and had absolutely no issues with recovery.


----------



## 1320str8liner

Here is a quick time progression of my back yard leveling...

What drag mat are you using?


----------



## Redtwin

1320str8liner said:


> What drag mat are you using?


These are what I use depending on what I need. My favorite is the rigid one with the black rope.


----------



## mwemaxxowner

In addition to leveling with sand, would using a tiller in areas where there is a high spot (or spots) work well? I am going to be purchasing a 4' tiller for my small tractor, and can set the tilling depth as shallow as an inch.

For future leveling I am thinking I could set it at 1-2" deep and till high spots and level them out. I don't think shallow tilling like that will kill Bermuda, but I'd like to be sure.


----------



## Bombers

No experience but it makes sense using a tiller to knock down high spots which will require less sand to feather out the surrounding area. I'd also leave the tilled sprigs in there for quicker fill-in.


----------



## CenlaLowell

Bombers said:


> No experience but it makes sense using a tiller to knock down high spots which will require less sand to feather out the surrounding area. I'd also leave the tilled sprigs in there for quicker fill-in.


This is exactly what I did a few weeks ago. The tiller made the job so easy.


----------



## mwemaxxowner

What depth is too deep? Or does it require digging a little up and seeing how deep my roots go to answer that question?

After a recent grading job mine is getting close, but there are some spots higher than I'd like to feather up to from surrounding. I'd prefer to cut them down a little.

I appreciate the input!


----------



## Jagermeister

All,

I have a large lawn and am planning to bring in 18 tons of sand to do my first level job. I will need gas powered equipment to do a job this big, a la @wardconnor ! I have a 7 cu ft gorilla cart to haul the sand all the way around the house to the back (where most of my large undulations are). I will rent a mini skidsteer to scoop and dump the sand. 
@gooodawgs built an @wardconnor steel drag that he will let me borrow.

Only problem is I need something to haul my cart and pull my drag. I can't seem to find a lawn tractor or ATV to borrow or rent. Sunbelt rentals has this AWD utility cart. Do you all think this would work or will it tear up the yard more (I have seen people use large tractors on lawns)? It is about 1100 lbs. Good thing it is fast! Thinking that if I do this when the ground is pretty dry and I will be apply sand anyway, small ruts and torn up grass would recover quickly and level. Appreciate your opinions on this one.


----------



## callmestevee_o

Jagermeister said:


> All,
> 
> I have a large lawn and am planning to bring in 18 tons of sand to do my first level job. I will need gas powered equipment to do a job this big, a la @wardconnor ! I have a 7 cu ft gorilla cart to haul the sand all the way around the house to the back (where most of my large undulations are). I will rent a mini skidsteer to scoop and dump the sand.
> @gooodawgs built an @wardconnor steel drag that he will let me borrow.
> 
> Only problem is I need something to haul my cart and pull my drag. I can't seem to find a lawn tractor or ATV to borrow or rent. Sunbelt rentals has this AWD utility cart. Do you all think this would work or will it tear up the yard more (I have seen people use large tractors on lawns)? It is about 1100 lbs. Good thing it is fast! Thinking that if I do this when the ground is pretty dry and I will be apply sand anyway, small ruts and torn up grass would recover quickly and level. Appreciate your opinions on this one.


That only weights 1,455lbs for the heaviest model that they offer. I can almost guarantee the mini skid steer that you get will weight the same if not more. I don't see any issue using that, just don't do use it while the soil is moist or you'll risk getting stuck


----------



## Jagermeister

callmestevee_o said:


> Jagermeister said:
> 
> 
> 
> All,
> 
> I have a large lawn and am planning to bring in 18 tons of sand to do my first level job. I will need gas powered equipment to do a job this big, a la @wardconnor ! I have a 7 cu ft gorilla cart to haul the sand all the way around the house to the back (where most of my large undulations are). I will rent a mini skidsteer to scoop and dump the sand.
> @gooodawgs built an @wardconnor steel drag that he will let me borrow.
> 
> Only problem is I need something to haul my cart and pull my drag. I can't seem to find a lawn tractor or ATV to borrow or rent. Sunbelt rentals has this AWD utility cart. Do you all think this would work or will it tear up the yard more (I have seen people use large tractors on lawns)? It is about 1100 lbs. Good thing it is fast! Thinking that if I do this when the ground is pretty dry and I will be apply sand anyway, small ruts and torn up grass would recover quickly and level. Appreciate your opinions on this one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That only weights 1,455lbs for the heaviest model that they offer. I can almost guarantee the mini skid steer that you get will weight the same if not more. I don't see any issue using that, just don't do use it while the soil is moist or you'll risk getting stuck
Click to expand...

That is a good point. I rented a Gehl tracked skidsteer in February and drove it on the grass and did minimal damage to the lawn. Weighs 4700 lbs. For the mini skidsteer I am going to rent, I won't drive that on the lawn, just use it to load sand into the cart.


----------



## Automate

You probably will be alright. I think the soil moisture and the tread pattern on the tires will be the biggest factors. You may want to let some air out of the tires to give them a bigger footprint.


----------



## callmestevee_o

Automate said:


> You probably will be alright. I think the soil moisture and the tread pattern on the tires will be the biggest factors. You may want to let some air out of the tires to give them a bigger footprint.


On the topic of Sunbelt, have you ever rented any machinery from them before? Like skid steers or tractors? I see they have a training course and it looks like a certification is required to operate some of their stuff and I had questions about that. I have my OSHA 1910.178 powered industrial vehicles cert so I was curious if that would suffice. Really don't want to take their course hah


----------



## Automate

callmestevee_o said:


> Automate said:
> 
> 
> 
> You probably will be alright. I think the soil moisture and the tread pattern on the tires will be the biggest factors. You may want to let some air out of the tires to give them a bigger footprint.
> 
> 
> 
> On the topic of Sunbelt, have you ever rented any machinery from them before? Like skid steers or tractors? I see they have a training course and it looks like a certification is required to operate some of their stuff and I had questions about that. I have my OSHA 1910.178 powered industrial vehicles cert so I was curious if that would suffice. Really don't want to take their course hah
Click to expand...

Never rented from them


----------



## callmestevee_o

Jagermeister said:


> callmestevee_o said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jagermeister said:
> 
> 
> 
> All,
> 
> I have a large lawn and am planning to bring in 18 tons of sand to do my first level job. I will need gas powered equipment to do a job this big, a la @wardconnor ! I have a 7 cu ft gorilla cart to haul the sand all the way around the house to the back (where most of my large undulations are). I will rent a mini skidsteer to scoop and dump the sand.
> @gooodawgs built an @wardconnor steel drag that he will let me borrow.
> 
> Only problem is I need something to haul my cart and pull my drag. I can't seem to find a lawn tractor or ATV to borrow or rent. Sunbelt rentals has this AWD utility cart. Do you all think this would work or will it tear up the yard more (I have seen people use large tractors on lawns)? It is about 1100 lbs. Good thing it is fast! Thinking that if I do this when the ground is pretty dry and I will be apply sand anyway, small ruts and torn up grass would recover quickly and level. Appreciate your opinions on this one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That only weights 1,455lbs for the heaviest model that they offer. I can almost guarantee the mini skid steer that you get will weight the same if not more. I don't see any issue using that, just don't do use it while the soil is moist or you'll risk getting stuck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a good point. I rented a Gehl tracked skidsteer in February and drove it on the grass and did minimal damage to the lawn. Weighs 4700 lbs. For the mini skidsteer I am going to rent, I won't drive that on the lawn, just use it to load sand into the cart.
Click to expand...

What about you? Have you ever rented from Sunbelt in the past?


----------



## Reel_Alabama

I've rented equipment from them to use in a factory. They've never asked to see any certifications for the operators. That's not to say their rules aren't different for individuals renting them.


----------



## Mightyquinn

callmestevee_o said:


> Automate said:
> 
> 
> 
> You probably will be alright. I think the soil moisture and the tread pattern on the tires will be the biggest factors. You may want to let some air out of the tires to give them a bigger footprint.
> 
> 
> 
> On the topic of Sunbelt, have you ever rented any machinery from them before? Like skid steers or tractors? I see they have a training course and it looks like a certification is required to operate some of their stuff and I had questions about that. I have my OSHA 1910.178 powered industrial vehicles cert so I was curious if that would suffice. Really don't want to take their course hah
Click to expand...

I've rented from them many times before and they could give a crap less if you know how to operate it. The guys loading it up will give you a quick once over on how to operate it if you have any questions. I would just go slow and methodical at first until you get a feel for it.


----------



## Jagermeister

Another question. I am planning to verticut to thin the canopy and also use it collect sprigs and stolonize a few thousand sq ft of thin / bare areas prior to top dressing. Am thinking this is a good way to help get the sand down to the soil or will it weaken / stress the lawn too much in combo with adding all the sand?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Jagermeister said:


> Another question. I am planning to verticut to thin the canopy and also use it collect sprigs and stolonize a few thousand sq ft of thin / bare areas prior to top dressing. Am thinking this is a good way to help get the sand down to the soil or will it weaken / stress the lawn too much in combo with adding all the sand?


No, you should be fine and that's actually probably better as it will help the sand get down into the canopy better.


----------



## mwemaxxowner

I bought this last year to help with projects around the house. It has been very much so appreciated.


----------



## Jagermeister

Mightyquinn said:


> Jagermeister said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another question. I am planning to verticut to thin the canopy and also use it collect sprigs and stolonize a few thousand sq ft of thin / bare areas prior to top dressing. Am thinking this is a good way to help get the sand down to the soil or will it weaken / stress the lawn too much in combo with adding all the sand?
> 
> 
> 
> No, you should be fine and that's actually probably better as it will help the sand get down into the canopy better.
Click to expand...

 :thumbup:


----------



## lgm

This is a long thread and I understand the general rule of thumb is 1.5 yd per 1k feet. I sourced screened golf course sand and they only sell by the ton. I looked at conversion calculators but it depends on weight. I priced a local leveling business and he quoted 2 tons of sand for 15k sf yard at $2800.

Seems really high and 2 tons of sand seems too small an amount. Can anyone tell me about how many tons I need for 15k sf. Lawn is well established Bermuda plan to level after Memorial Day


----------



## Mightyquinn

My rule of thumb is 1 yd per 1,000 sq/ft and I think roughly it weighs about 1.5 tons so you would need about 23 tons of sand for your lawn of 15,000 sq/ft. $2800 for 2 tons of sand is highway robbery. I pay a little over $200 for 9 yards of sand delivered where I live. Look for masonry sand too as it will work just as well. You might also want to go look at the sand before purchasing to make sure it's good and doesn't have any pebbles in it.


----------



## mwemaxxowner

lgm said:


> This is a long thread and I understand the general rule of thumb is 1.5 yd per 1k feet. I sourced screened golf course sand and they only sell by the ton. I looked at conversion calculators but it depends on weight. I priced a local leveling business and he quoted 2 tons of sand for 15k sf yard at $2800.
> 
> Seems really high and 2 tons of sand seems too small an amount. Can anyone tell me about how many tons I need for 15k sf. Lawn is well established Bermuda plan to level after Memorial Day


Shew whee! I priced sand locally myself and it's only about $15/ton. I can only haul about 3.5 tons myself. I can get a tandem axle dump truck load for something like $400.


----------



## Bombers

I would just have mason sand delivered and hire a small time lawn or landscape guy to dump mini piles around the yard and work it in myself.


----------



## lgm

I'm doing it myself. I can purchase sand, rent a topsoil spreader, mini tractor and build a drag for about 1k less than the quote from the "pro". @ mightyquinn thanks for the answer. Will try to remember to take pictures before and after. Having some substantial drainage work done next week and will reserve equipment for after Memorial Day


----------



## Redtwin

2 tons of sand over 15K sf is a joke and the $2800 price tag is the punchline.

I wouldn't even bother responding to that quote.


----------



## Mattopb3

I payed $540 for 5yds delivered.


----------



## Bombers

That california luxury tax lol. Did you get other quotes?


----------



## Rooster

lgm said:


> This is a long thread and I understand the general rule of thumb is 1.5 yd per 1k feet. I sourced screened golf course sand and they only sell by the ton. I looked at conversion calculators but it depends on weight. I priced a local leveling business and he quoted 2 tons of sand for 15k sf yard at $2800.
> 
> Seems really high and 2 tons of sand seems too small an amount. Can anyone tell me about how many tons I need for 15k sf. Lawn is well established Bermuda plan to level after Memorial Day


For my first leveling I used about 2 yards (2.7 tons) on my 2500 sq ft and wish I had used more. I can't speak to the price of the work, as I did the labor myself, but the cost of the sand worked out to about $45 per ton, delivered.


----------



## Mattopb3

Bombers said:


> That california luxury tax lol. Did you get other quotes?


It was the only place around that had Mason sand.


----------



## burnhagw

Getting ready to level again. Going to get the lawn aerated and probably 5 tons delivered on Friday!


----------



## a_chan

Looking to level my lawn in about a week. Has anyone had any experience with the MSU Masonry sand bags from Home Depot?


----------



## Mightyquinn

a_chan said:


> Looking to level my lawn in about a week. Has anyone had any experience with the MSU Masonry sand bags from Home Depot?


I would go look at them first to see how fine the sand is and if there is any pebbles in there. If you only need a bag or two that's fine but you will save more most likely buying in bulk and having it delivered depending on where you live.


----------



## burnhagw

Just spread 4 yards of sand. I'm wiped out. The looks you get while doing it are hilarious.


----------



## DocTodd

burnhagw said:


> Just spread 4 yards of sand. I'm wiped out. The looks you get while doing it are hilarious.


Oh boy, that's not good. I'm anticipating needing to do 20 yards here in a month or so. Local company quoted me $1200 per 1500 sq ft to bring in leveling mix and to level it by hand. Looks like I'm gonna need to borrow a 4 wheeler or the like.


----------



## xTougher

Am I the only lazy/busy person here that levels their lawn? You guys are making me feel terrible thinking about hiring people to do the labor for me!

That being said, I was trying to search this thread for what people paid, and couldn't really find much, except for prices specifically for the material and/or tools.

Has anyone hired anyone to do the whole project, or just for that labor part?

If so, how much did you pay, and how big was the yard? I'm trying to figure out how to get this done, since I know I probably won't do it unless I pay someone else to do it.

I have about 13k sq ft of lawn.

Thanks!


----------



## Cousin_Wash

Buy the sand and/or supplies and go rolling for a couple of day workers. i am sure they are able to tackle any job. Supply enough adult refreshments and everything will work itself out.


----------



## Dono1183

I second what @Cousin_Wash said. I hired three guys to help me lay my sod. I couldn't have done it on my own in a timely fashion. If you have a friend who's a contractor, I've found their guys are always looking for some extra cash on the weekends. My buddy just asked folks on his crews and that's where I got my help from. For what it's worth, you get to exercise more control over the project and you don't have to pay as much overall.


----------



## xTougher

Sorry, may not have been too clear.

The main thing I wanted to learn was a general idea of what people were paying for that labor. I don't mind paying for my own convenience, but wanted to know a reasonable number to throw out to people who are willing to do the work.

I don't want to over or under bid, is all, when I start asking around.

Thanks!


----------



## Dono1183

xTougher said:


> Sorry, may not have been too clear.
> 
> The main thing I wanted to learn was a general idea of what people were paying for that labor. I don't mind paying for my own convenience, but wanted to know a reasonable number to throw out to people who are willing to do the work.
> 
> I don't want to over or under bid, is all, when I start asking around.
> 
> Thanks!


If you go all day, around here I feel fine paying $200/person. $150 is likely also ok. Half day 80-$100.


----------



## reddy

I got 7 tons delivered for 6K back lawn. Sand was wet and I don't think I got even half coverage…I used wood pallet behind tractor mower for leveling and sand just would not move. Where ever I dropped sand piles got heavier dose and other places barely got any sand…. That wood pallet is heavy and should have been sufficient.


----------



## Mightyquinn

reddy said:


> I got 7 tons delivered for 6K back lawn. Sand was wet and I don't think I got even half coverage…I used wood pallet behind tractor mower for leveling and sand just would not move. Where ever I dropped sand piles got heavier dose and other places barely got any sand…. That wood pallet is heavy and should have been sufficient.


How tall is your grass? How uneven was it? I would let the sand dry out in the sun and then once it's nice and dry take your "drag" over the lawn again and see what you get. Wet sand does not move very well but once it's dry it tends to flow a lot better.


----------



## reddy

3/4inch…This is lowest I can get on Honda mower. It's new sod couple of years and it's mostly bumps because of terrible sod job. It rained again yesterday night and I am using drag everyday for last 3 days… Grass is already growing in most areas.



Mightyquinn said:


> reddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got 7 tons delivered for 6K back lawn. Sand was wet and I don't think I got even half coverage…I used wood pallet behind tractor mower for leveling and sand just would not move. Where ever I dropped sand piles got heavier dose and other places barely got any sand…. That wood pallet is heavy and should have been sufficient.
> 
> 
> 
> How tall is your grass? How uneven was it? I would let the sand dry out in the sun and then once it's nice and dry take your "drag" over the lawn again and see what you get. Wet sand does not move very well but once it's dry it tends to flow a lot better.
Click to expand...


----------



## Mightyquinn

It's probably due to your high HOC which makes it more difficult to spread the sand out more evenly plus with it being wet didn't help the situation.


----------



## xTougher

Dono1183 said:


> xTougher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, may not have been too clear.
> 
> The main thing I wanted to learn was a general idea of what people were paying for that labor. I don't mind paying for my own convenience, but wanted to know a reasonable number to throw out to people who are willing to do the work.
> 
> I don't want to over or under bid, is all, when I start asking around.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> If you go all day, around here I feel fine paying $200/person. $150 is likely also ok. Half day 80-$100.
Click to expand...

Good to know. Thanks!


----------



## Memphis2830

When is the first time you'll tend to use your reel after leveling? I was thinking of dropping my McLane off for a grind after my last cut before leveling and had read that sand leveling may dull the reel if I mowed too early after leveling. 
Thanks!


----------



## Mightyquinn

At least one week maybe two and even then I will tilt the mower back when going over thicker spots of sand that still need to grow in.


----------



## Memphis2830

Mightyquinn said:


> At least one week maybe two and even then I will tilt the mower back when going over thicker spots of sand that still need to grow in.


Thanks!


----------



## ReelMowLow74

In my experience, I would definitely wait to put a fresh grind on the reel or bedknife until you're fully grown in. Not saying you can't use the reel before then, but no matter how careful you are, I think you'll pick up some sand and dull that new edge.


----------



## Memphis2830

ReelMowLow74 said:


> In my experience, I would definitely wait to put a fresh grind on the reel or bedknife until you're fully grown in. Not saying you can't use the reel before then, but no matter how careful you are, I think you'll pick up some sand and dull that new edge.


Thanks, exactly what i needed!


----------



## Reel_Alabama

I went out to the nurseries today pricing sand and inspecting what they had. I know everyone says masonry sand which I have available close by and it's pebble free. With that said, one nursery sells bunker sand. Any knowledge on here about which would be better? To the naked eye the particle size was similar and the lightly damp sand clumped in a similar fashion with both when squeezed. The only difference I saw was the color. The bunker sand being almost white. The cost is very similar. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## thelawnlife

get the mason sand it will lock in and not spread as much when brushed in.


----------



## tamukid

Having 7 yards of masonry sand delivered today. 
Will mow the lawn as low as I can go with my rotary this PM. I think I'll spray some liquid Air-8 as well.
Plan to start the sand spreading and leveling tomorrow AM.
Have a gorilla cart, landscaping rake, shop broome, and a 5x3 drag mat (that I hope to be able to pull by hand). 
Looking at a 6k sqft lawn that is VERY uneven from builder installing after weeks of heavy rain (and in the rain).

I topdressed heavily with a compost/soil mix last year to try to help amend the lawn. 
Now it's time to see how this sand leveling works out! 
Hoping it allows me to mow as low as possible with my rotary without all these stupid, yellow/brown scalp rings.
Thanks for all the contributions to this post; really fun to follow and get guidance.


----------



## tamukid

Sand has arrived!

Gulp...


----------



## TurfML

Think I want to tackle leveling the lawn in a few weeks. Anyone near Raleigh, NC have a good place to get leveling sand? What's the price looking like right now and how much would I need for say 1,000 sq ft?


----------



## Meximusprime

tamukid said:


> Sand has arrived!
> 
> Gulp...


The fun begins! You probably already know this as you most likely have been reading this topic. Let the sun be your friend.

Dump, spread, sun baked and then level out once it dries up. Take breaks and stay hydrated!


----------



## thelawnlife

tamukid said:


> Sand has arrived!
> 
> Gulp...


I see much Powerade in your future... :thumbup:


----------



## aloxdaddy99

TurfML said:


> Think I want to tackle leveling the lawn in a few weeks. Anyone near Raleigh, NC have a good place to get leveling sand? What's the price looking like right now and how much would I need for say 1,000 sq ft?


I got some last year from Bradsher Landscape Supply off of Gresham Lake. I think it was $35 a pickup load.


----------



## 2doss3

I trusted the process and it worked! Thank you all for your comments and help!

4,000 sq. ft. Tiftuf laid 05/07/21
Levelled with 4 yards of masonry sand on 03/31/22 
Fertilized with 16 - 8 - 8 on 04/29/22
Mowing with a John Deere X330 at 1"


----------



## tamukid

Today's progress. Can you tell how uneven this lawn is? This 2300 sqft section gobbled up about 3.5-4 yards in no time. Wild how much the sand settles after dragging and watering. Hard work. Especially in 95 degree, clear skies, with just one guy. I earned my bourbon tonight.

Up early tomorrow to do the other side.


----------



## Ccualumni

If I level my yard today, do I go back tomorrow and run the drag mat over the area again? Wondering if you do the work one day are you complete or do you go at the same area the next day?


----------



## Mightyquinn

Ccualumni said:


> If I level my yard today, do I go back tomorrow and run the drag mat over the area again? Wondering if you do the work one day are you complete or do you go at the same area the next day?


It's completely up to you and you will be fine either way but going back over the lawn the next day or after some rain or irrigation(after the sand has dried) will just be making sure the sand is where it needs to be and is a little bit of insurance is all.


----------



## itsmejson

tamukid said:


> Today's progress. Can you tell how uneven this lawn is? This 2300 sqft section gobbled up about 3.5-4 yards in no time. Wild how much the sand settles after dragging and watering. Hard work. Especially in 95 degree, clear skies, with just one guy. I earned my bourbon tonight.
> 
> Up early tomorrow to do the other side.


Looks great! I'm thinking of sand leveling my new yard.

What's the general rule of thumb when it comes to how much sand per 1k sqft?


----------



## Redtwin

@itsmejson Normally you would get 1 yard/1000sf or 1.5 tons/1000sf. Add a little more if your yard is really bumpy.


----------



## itsmejson

Redtwin said:


> @itsmejson Normally you would get 1 yard/1000sf or 1.5 tons/1000sf. Add a little more if your yard is really bumpy.


Thx redtwin! The process is fairly simple to level it seems just scalp or cut low as possible, apply sand piles, spread, apply fertilizer and water daily?


----------



## kem5882

I think I screwed up by not pre-inspecting some sand before a last minute purchase.

No way I can put this on my lawn if there are a decent amount of this sized rocks/pebbles throughout the sand, without wrecking my bed knife down the road, right? 😫


----------



## Highlife159

@kem5882 I've seen some people screen the sand as they're moving it from the initial pile to a cart/wheel barrow. Depending on how much you have it could add a significant amount of time to the whole process but if you're in a position where it has to be used that would be one option.


----------



## Redtwin

itsmejson said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> @itsmejson Normally you would get 1 yard/1000sf or 1.5 tons/1000sf. Add a little more if your yard is really bumpy.
> 
> 
> 
> The process is fairly simple to level it seems just scalp or cut low as possible, apply sand piles, spread, apply fertilizer and water daily?
Click to expand...

That about sums it up. On the spread part you want to get it level so you should use some sort of rigid drag to level it out. I'm sure there are several home-made versions earlier in this thread.


----------



## Ccualumni

kem5882 said:


> I think I screwed up by not pre-inspecting some sand before a last minute purchase.
> 
> No way I can put this on my lawn if there are a decent amount of this sized rocks/pebbles throughout the sand, without wrecking my bed knife down the road, right? 😫


Bring it to my house. I would be happy to use it.


----------



## Ccualumni

[/quote]

It's completely up to you and you will be fine either way but going back over the lawn the next day or after some rain or irrigation(after the sand has dried) will just be making sure the sand is where it needs to be and is a little bit of insurance is all.
[/quote]

Thanks @Mightyquinn


----------



## kem5882

Highlife159 said:


> @kem5882 I've seen some people screen the sand as they're moving it from the initial pile to a cart/wheel barrow. Depending on how much you have it could add a significant amount of time to the whole process but if you're in a position where it has to be used that would be one option.


Yea, that is what I'm weighing. Spend a ton of extra time to do that or just call it a loss. Ugh. Kicking myself now for just trying to save a few bucks and not going with the known commodity. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## WillyT

Watering the sand in may help instead. Makes the small sand particles travel downward and the "larger" particles stay up top. Could hand pick afterwards.


----------



## kem5882

WillyT said:


> Watering the sand in may help instead. Makes the small sand particles travel downward and the "larger" particles stay up top. Could hand pick afterwards.


Not a bad idea @WillyT. I have a scarifier attachment for my swardman as well. Could be another way to scoop up some rocks a bit quicker. Still just worried I would miss enough to wreck the reel and end up regretting putting it down.

I've been doing some screening of the sand and can quickly tell it will take forever. Wouldn't be bad if the sand was dry. Might let it dry out in the upcoming heat and just do it a bit at a time. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## enforcerman

2nd time leveling my lawn. 1.8k sqft. Forgot how much that sucked. Put down 3 yards of sand.


----------



## jsams22

cnet24 said:


> How soon should you wait before sanding new sod? I had new sod laid two days ago and our contractor did not do the best job leveling and therefore I have a ton of low spots that are collecting water and creating spongy areas. Additionally, I am hoping the sand will create some structure in between my clay and the topsoil used by the landscaper, which was basically mulch at the end of the day.


Go Tigers! Just following up on your comment. I just got Celebration Bermuda. I got it a week ago and its already growing like a fiend. Did you end up doing a leveling project with the newer sod? How did it go? No matter how hard I tried to get my soil flat before the sod came, it still wasnt the way I wanted after laying the sod. I have a couple low spots/spongy areas that I would like to take care of also.

Thanks in advance


----------



## jsams22

kem5882 said:


> I think I screwed up by not pre-inspecting some sand before a last minute purchase.
> 
> No way I can put this on my lawn if there are a decent amount of this sized rocks/pebbles throughout the sand, without wrecking my bed knife down the road, right? 😫


Do you have a backpack blower? Granted I have the top of the line redmax blower, but I just blow rocks/pebbles out of my yard. Works wonders instead of trying to hand pick or rake them out. I would maybe spread the sand, water it with hose, watering it will make the sand fall into the grass and keeps the pebbles on top, then try to blow the pebbles out of the grass? might work.


----------



## kem5882

jsams22 said:


> kem5882 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I screwed up by not pre-inspecting some sand before a last minute purchase.
> 
> No way I can put this on my lawn if there are a decent amount of this sized rocks/pebbles throughout the sand, without wrecking my bed knife down the road, right? 😫
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a backpack blower? Granted I have the top of the line redmax blower, but I just blow rocks/pebbles out of my yard. Works wonders instead of trying to hand pick or rake them out. I would maybe spread the sand, water it with hose, watering it will make the sand fall into the grass and keeps the pebbles on top, then try to blow the pebbles out of the grass? might work.
Click to expand...

I do not, unfortunately. But this might give me a good excuse to upgrade! Ha. That's a good idea for sure. These rocks are still relatively small enough. Thanks for the idea.


----------



## jsams22

I bought a Redmax EBZ 8500 (in the $550 range) that is top of the line and amazing. I have 8 Chestnut Oaks in the front yard that results in a lot of huge leaves. I would definitely go test one out, the 6500 series is probably what I would recommend to a normal homeowner.


----------



## tamukid

itsmejson said:


> tamukid said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today's progress. Can you tell how uneven this lawn is? This 2300 sqft section gobbled up about 3.5-4 yards in no time. Wild how much the sand settles after dragging and watering. Hard work. Especially in 95 degree, clear skies, with just one guy. I earned my bourbon tonight.
> 
> Up early tomorrow to do the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great! I'm thinking of sand leveling my new yard.
> 
> What's the general rule of thumb when it comes to how much sand per 1k sqft?
Click to expand...

I have about 5700 sqft. I got 7 yards (sticking to 1 yard per 1k sqft, thinking I'd have a bit leftover). It wasn't enough. I was able to do about 4500 sqft with that. I think I would have needed 9 yards to cover my full lawn.
My yard absolutely gobbled the sand up... this was a yard that the builder installed on 2 inches of chocolate loam after a week of heavy rains, and even installed during rain. If you have a lawn installed on a very poorly prepared surface like mine you may want to go more like 1.5 yards per 1k sqft. But if you have a lawn with minor bumps, I'd stick with the 1 yard per 1k sqft.


----------



## itsmejson

@tamukid great thx - I ran into the same thing with our builder when the installed the sod back in Mid Nov 21'. Luckily the front yard is somewhat decent it's the backyard that's really bumpy.

I have roughly 5500 sqft. While the front seems easy enough at 1500sqft I'm dreading doing the backyard with all the manual work lol.


----------



## monsonman

jsams22 said:


> cnet24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How soon should you wait before sanding new sod? I had new sod laid two days ago and our contractor did not do the best job leveling and therefore I have a ton of low spots that are collecting water and creating spongy areas. Additionally, I am hoping the sand will create some structure in between my clay and the topsoil used by the landscaper, which was basically mulch at the end of the day.
> 
> 
> 
> Go Tigers! Just following up on your comment. I just got Celebration Bermuda. I got it a week ago and its already growing like a fiend. Did you end up doing a leveling project with the newer sod? How did it go? No matter how hard I tried to get my soil flat before the sod came, it still wasnt the way I wanted after laying the sod. I have a couple low spots/spongy areas that I would like to take care of also.
> 
> Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

I did a sand leveling project a month after I laid my celebration last year. Take a look in my 2021 journal if you want to see how it went...it recovered extremely quick.


----------



## cnet24

jsams22 said:


> cnet24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How soon should you wait before sanding new sod? I had new sod laid two days ago and our contractor did not do the best job leveling and therefore I have a ton of low spots that are collecting water and creating spongy areas. Additionally, I am hoping the sand will create some structure in between my clay and the topsoil used by the landscaper, which was basically mulch at the end of the day.
> 
> 
> 
> Go Tigers! Just following up on your comment. I just got Celebration Bermuda. I got it a week ago and its already growing like a fiend. Did you end up doing a leveling project with the newer sod? How did it go? No matter how hard I tried to get my soil flat before the sod came, it still wasnt the way I wanted after laying the sod. I have a couple low spots/spongy areas that I would like to take care of also.
> 
> Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

Still have not leveled it yet- dealing with some drainage issues and a deck remodel has pushed that project to next year. I've done a previous sanding before- if it's growing well you should be fine.


----------



## Dono1183

Quick question: Should I core aerate, and then level? Or should I skip the coring? Thanks!


----------



## Ccualumni

I know everyone recommends using sand for leveling, but what should I use for spots where the grass has gone away and I need it to spread? My thought was to just cover those areas as I did with leveling, but wondered if it would be better to use a mix of sand and dirt.


----------



## Redtwin

Treat it just like anywhere else. You could also plug those areas to speed up the fill-in process.


----------



## kem5882

Dono1183 said:


> Quick question: Should I core aerate, and then level? Or should I skip the coring? Thanks!


I personally think the coring before leveling is wasted work. Unless you did a really aggressive core aeration where you removed a substantial portion of the root zone and removed all cores before back filling with sand. Outside of that, just leveling is the way to go.


----------



## Dono1183

kem5882 said:


> Dono1183 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quick question: Should I core aerate, and then level? Or should I skip the coring? Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> I personally think the coring before leveling is wasted work. Unless you did a really aggressive core aeration where you removed a substantial portion of the root zone and removed all cores before back filling with sand. Outside of that, just leveling is the way to go.
Click to expand...

Thanks @kem5882 I appreciate the feedback!


----------



## Mightyquinn

Dono1183 said:


> Quick question: Should I core aerate, and then level? Or should I skip the coring? Thanks!


I think it depends on your situation and what you are trying to accomplish. If you have a slow draining lawn or excessive thatch build up or compacted soil, then aerating before you topdress would be beneficial as the sand will create channels for water, air and nutrients to go and dilute any thatch you may have.


----------



## Dono1183

Mightyquinn said:


> Dono1183 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quick question: Should I core aerate, and then level? Or should I skip the coring? Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> I think it depends on your situation and what you are trying to accomplish. If you have a slow draining lawn or excessive thatch build up or compacted soil, then aerating before you topdress would be beneficial as the sand will create channels for water, air and nutrients to go and dilute any thatch you may have.
Click to expand...

 Thanks @Mightyquinn, I do have some compacted areas, and overall have very rocky soil full of limestone. So I'm working on increasing water's ability to help the lawn. So I think that jives with what you're saying.


----------



## UFG8RMIKE

kem5882 said:


> Dono1183 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quick question: Should I core aerate, and then level? Or should I skip the coring? Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> I personally think the coring before leveling is wasted work. Unless you did a really aggressive core aeration where you removed a substantial portion of the root zone and removed all cores before back filling with sand. Outside of that, just leveling is the way to go.
Click to expand...

Agreed, unless on clay soil. I'd core every chance I get. Luckily I don't have that issue. My biggest issue is gonna be iron (staining) from the well water.


----------



## Memphis2830

I'm set to sand level this weekend. I have a friend bringing me his lawn tractor with a bucket and aerator and I'm bringing in 10 tons of sand (half of this is for the back lawn that's flat). My front lawn had a decent slope on this section and twice the slope on the other front section(not pictured). Rain forecast for 4 days(starting late Saturday), up to 2" total. I won't be able to use the friend's tractor after this weekend as he's a farmer and getting too busy so I want to take advantage if I can. I'm hesitant to level everything off before the rain is over (Tues) as I feel like I'd be scooping sand off the sidewalk but I thought about just making my small piles all over and the yard before the rain starts and leveling (I can borrow a ride mower for this) after the sand dries a bit. 
Is this a crazy idea? 
The first picture is the drainage during a rain event....


----------



## Jeffersonzoysia

Curious if anyone has ordered sand from Gravelshop.com? They advertise a product called top dressing sand and I can get 15 yrds delivered for $920. If you have used gravelshop.com before, please tell us your experience.
- Was the product ordered the quality you were expecting?
- Did they deliver the day/time you requested?
- Did the quantity ordered and what was delivered match up?
- any other observations you would share?


----------



## Dono1183

How low should I mow my lawn prior to leveling? I currently maintain it at 1". Thanks!


----------



## Redtwin

Dono1183 said:


> How low should I mow my lawn prior to leveling? I currently maintain it at 1". Thanks!


The lower you can get it the easier it will be to spread the sand and level it.


----------



## Dono1183

Redtwin said:


> Dono1183 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How low should I mow my lawn prior to leveling? I currently maintain it at 1". Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> The lower you can get it the easier it will be to spread the sand and level it.
Click to expand...

Ok, so if I scalp all the way down, and I don't have any green leaf material, that's ideal? Thanks!


----------



## Redtwin

Dono1183 said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dono1183 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How low should I mow my lawn prior to leveling? I currently maintain it at 1". Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> The lower you can get it the easier it will be to spread the sand and level it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, so if I scalp all the way down, and I don't have any green leaf material, that's ideal? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Others might do it differently but I like to do it that way because the low spots stand out since they are still green.


----------



## Dono1183

Redtwin said:


> Dono1183 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> The lower you can get it the easier it will be to spread the sand and level it.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so if I scalp all the way down, and I don't have any green leaf material, that's ideal? Thanks!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Others might do it differently but I like to do it that way because the low spots stand out since they are still green.
Click to expand...

Thanks @Redtwin, I really appreciate the clarification on the cutting height. It's happening next weekend, so I'll update on here as I go.


----------



## klsmith259

Jeffersonzoysia said:


> Curious if anyone has ordered sand from Gravelshop.com? They advertise a product called top dressing sand and I can get 15 yrds delivered for $920. If you have used gravelshop.com before, please tell us your experience.
> - Was the product ordered the quality you were expecting?
> - Did they deliver the day/time you requested?
> - Did the quantity ordered and what was delivered match up?
> - any other observations you would share?


Based on the website if people have used them before you would receive varying accounts and quality of product depending on location. They seem to be a reseller per say. Finding a contact and placing the order for you basically. I've used various suppliers around Atlanta. I've had good luck with green brother which is now green landscape supply I believe. 
I've used their white sand and river sand. I prefer the white sand.


----------



## Mightyquinn

I think you better off trying to get the sand directly from the source as they will be much cheaper than going through a middle man.


----------



## klsmith259

I agree. I think a reasonable price for 15 yrds around here is around $800 delivered. It may take two trucks to deliver.


----------



## Mightyquinn

$800 is still crazy expensive, I know it varies from place to place but I just had 8 yds delivered for $200 and the more you buy the cheaper it gets.


----------



## klsmith259

Mightyquinn said:


> $800 is still crazy expensive, I know it varies from place to place but I just had 8 yds delivered for $200 and the more you buy the cheaper it gets.


Definitely find the cheapest place with quality sand. He may be able to get a discounted price, but most places around the Atlanta area are $40-60. I figured $45/yd/ton is $675 and $120 for 2 deliveries if it can't be delivered in a single load.


----------



## Dono1183

Here just west of Austin, delivery is $120, and anywhere from $45/yd to $65/yd. I think overall, they have a lot of business and moving the loads is expensive, which means we get the price hikes.


----------



## 1zach4

How often do you typically water after leveling? I laid down a few tons of masonry sand today and then watered it in, but should I be watering almost daily for the first week to help growth?

Plan was to water in today, go back and hit it with the leveling rake again tomorrow and then water again, and basically repeat this process for a week before going back to my regularly scheduled watering.


----------



## Mightyquinn

1zach4 said:


> How often do you typically water after leveling? I laid down a few tons of masonry sand today and then watered it in, but should I be watering almost daily for the first week to help growth?
> 
> Plan was to water in today, go back and hit it with the leveling rake again tomorrow and then water again, and basically repeat this process for a week before going back to my regularly scheduled watering.


You can water everyday and your plan sounds like a good one but I don't think it's 100% necessary to water everyday. I think a good watering the first day or two is great as it really helps to settle the sand down but other than that you might be encouraging disease with all that watering.


----------



## Jeffersonzoysia

klsmith259 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> $800 is still crazy expensive, I know it varies from place to place but I just had 8 yds delivered for $200 and the more you buy the cheaper it gets.
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely find the cheapest place with quality sand. He may be able to get a discounted price, but most places around the Atlanta area are $40-60. I figured $45/yd/ton is $675 and $120 for 2 deliveries if it can't be delivered in a single load.
Click to expand...

I found a local place that has screen river sand for $40/yrd/ton with only a $40 delivery fee. My only concern is that I've heard you can get weed seeds from the river sand, so don't know if I want to go with that option even though it is a great price. I guess I could spray some pre-Em after I spread the sand.
Thoughts from this forum?


----------



## ellsbebc

I used 18 yards of river sand from Mississippi River last year and don't recall any significant weed pressure afterward.


----------



## Jeffersonzoysia

ellsbebc said:


> I used 18 yards of river sand from Mississippi River last year and don't recall any significant weed pressure afterward.


Thanks. That helps ease the mind some.


----------



## 1320str8liner

What fertilizer do you guys recommend to apply after top dressing (starter fertilizer or something different)?


----------



## ReelMowLow74

I used 21-0-0 ammonium sulfate. Gave a great surge of growth to push through the leveling material and was a deep green!


----------



## SouthernTiftuf

Sand around here is pretty reasonably priced I think. 2 questions - first how soon can bermuda that's sodded be leveled? I am about 5 1/2 weeks since the sod was laid and curious what's best. The ground was Harley raked so maybe some more settling will occur but not sure how long that'll be. Second how long of a day will this be for around 10k square feet? I don't have a riding mower or ATV or anything so I'll need to do it all by hand.


----------



## Mightyquinn

You can lay the sand now if you wish but I would at a minimum get a Gorilla Cart to help transport the sand around. It might take 2-3 days to do it all by yourself as long as you just pace yourself, you should be fine.


----------



## monsonman

SouthernTiftuf said:


> Sand around here is pretty reasonably priced I think. 2 questions - first how soon can bermuda that's sodded be leveled? I am about 5 1/2 weeks since the sod was laid and curious what's best. The ground was Harley raked so maybe some more settling will occur but not sure how long that'll be. Second how long of a day will this be for around 10k square feet? I don't have a riding mower or ATV or anything so I'll need to do it all by hand.


I sodded Celebration last year on April 10. On May 7th I scalped it and covered it in sand.


----------



## SouthernTiftuf

Thanks @Mightyquinn i might break it up into 2 sessions once it gets hotter.

@monsonman thats incredible and this grass is crazy what it can take so far.


----------



## itsmejson

Redtwin said:


> itsmejson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> @itsmejson Normally you would get 1 yard/1000sf or 1.5 tons/1000sf. Add a little more if your yard is really bumpy.
> 
> 
> 
> The process is fairly simple to level it seems just scalp or cut low as possible, apply sand piles, spread, apply fertilizer and water daily?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That about sums it up. On the spread part you want to get it level so you should use some sort of rigid drag to level it out. I'm sure there are several home-made versions earlier in this thread.
Click to expand...

I currently maintain at 1". Should I scalp to dirt or do a hard cut to a little less than 1"? After cutting is it ok to start laying down sand same day or do I wait a few days for the grass to start growing back?


----------



## ozy

Hi All,

I am planning to level my 8-month-old Bermuda lawn for the first time this weekend. The total area is about 10K sq ft. I scalped the grass as low as I could.
Here are what I plan to get for this task:
-	1.5 cubic yards/1000 sq ft.
-	Masonry sand or sandy loam (I am not able to decide which one to use)
-	Landscape rake
-	Build a leveling rake
-	Gorilla cart

Your suggestions are highly appreciated. Wish me good luck 😊 and still learning…


----------



## Dono1183

ozy said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am planning to level my 8-month-old Bermuda lawn for the first time this weekend. The total area is about 10K sq ft. I scalped the grass as low as I could.
> Here are what I plan to get for this task:
> -	1.5 cubic yards/1000 sq ft.
> -	Masonry sand or sandy loam (I am not able to decide which one to use)
> -	Landscape rake
> -	Build a leveling rake
> -	Gorilla cart
> 
> Your suggestions are highly appreciated. Wish me good luck 😊 and still learning…


Sandy loam will compact and settle over time. Hope this helps.


----------



## ozy

Dono1183 said:


> ozy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I am planning to level my 8-month-old Bermuda lawn for the first time this weekend. The total area is about 10K sq ft. I scalped the grass as low as I could.
> Here are what I plan to get for this task:
> -	1.5 cubic yards/1000 sq ft.
> -	Masonry sand or sandy loam (I am not able to decide which one to use)
> -	Landscape rake
> -	Build a leveling rake
> -	Gorilla cart
> 
> Your suggestions are highly appreciated. Wish me good luck 😊 and still learning…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sandy loam will compact and settle over time. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thank you Dono1183!
If I understand well, I should stay away from Sandy loam.


----------



## SouthernTiftuf

ozy said:


> Dono1183 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ozy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I am planning to level my 8-month-old Bermuda lawn for the first time this weekend. The total area is about 10K sq ft. I scalped the grass as low as I could.
> Here are what I plan to get for this task:
> -	1.5 cubic yards/1000 sq ft.
> -	Masonry sand or sandy loam (I am not able to decide which one to use)
> -	Landscape rake
> -	Build a leveling rake
> -	Gorilla cart
> 
> Your suggestions are highly appreciated. Wish me good luck 😊 and still learning…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sandy loam will compact and settle over time. Hope this helps.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you Dono1183!
> If I understand well, I should stay away from Sandy loam.
Click to expand...

Correct. I've read masonry sand is ideal to not settle. Let us know how long it takes you. I have a similar yard and plan on using similar tools to get it done just know it'll be a task


----------



## mc80

I have a bermuda lawn thats pretty bump. Should i plan to level the first round with straight topsoil then a second round with sand a couple months later?


----------



## Mightyquinn

mc80 said:


> I have a bermuda lawn thats pretty bump. Should i plan to level the first round with straight topsoil then a second round with sand a couple months later?


Just use sand for everything. You don't get any real benefits from using soil as you are adding it on top of the grass where the roots are not at plus top soil can break down and you will be in the same position a few years from now.


----------



## Redtwin

itsmejson said:


> I currently maintain at 1". Should I scalp to dirt or do a hard cut to a little less than 1"? After cutting is it ok to start laying down sand same day or do I wait a few days for the grass to start growing back?


Cut it as low as you can to make spreading and leveling easier. You can cut and start leveling on the same day. Drink lots of water and wear a wide-brimmed hat.


----------



## ozy

SouthernTiftuf said:


> ozy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dono1183 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sandy loam will compact and settle over time. Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Dono1183!
> If I understand well, I should stay away from Sandy loam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Correct. I've read masonry sand is ideal to not settle. Let us know how long it takes you. I have a similar yard and plan on using similar tools to get it done just know it'll be a task
Click to expand...

Got it, I will let you know how it goes. I am thinking of aerating as well.


----------



## Dono1183

ozy said:


> SouthernTiftuf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ozy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Dono1183!
> If I understand well, I should stay away from Sandy loam.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct. I've read masonry sand is ideal to not settle. Let us know how long it takes you. I have a similar yard and plan on using similar tools to get it done just know it'll be a task
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Got it, I will let you know how it goes. I am thinking of aerating as well.
Click to expand...

I aerated yesterday, and mowed to .625 today. I maintain at 1", and even cutting three different directions I felt like I could mow all day.


----------



## Dono1183

Started the process to level/add organic matter yesterday. My property sits on a limestone shelf, and above that shelf is kaliche limestone mix. I can't doig with a shovel generally speaking. So when I started my lawn, I had a guy in our neighborhood come over with his bobcat and scrape the top layer of material off, and I brought in 12 yards of soil. That being said, I still need more organic material, so I've ordered a mix of granite sand and fine compost for a total of 6 yards for 4,600 ft^2. I don't expect this to be a true level, and will be working on leveling slowly over a period of years to make the substrate more conducive to a healthy turf. Mostly, we don't get a lot rain, and my soil doesn't hold much water, so I'm trying to change that. 
Yesterday I had the yard aerated. I then cleaned up the cores and am using them around the yard.






The aerator pulled out some interesting materials… 🤔🤔



Today I mowed down to .625. At least I tried to anyway. I went three different directions, and I know that this didn't get everything. That being said, I definitely found some of the high spots, so I'll be working on those areas a little bit more closely.










The material will arrive tomorrow morning, and I plan on trying to get it done as early as possible. I'll be adding some fertilizer this afternoon once the grass is dry. I've got a leveling rake, a shop broom, at least 9 wood pallets (🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️) and two carts. Gabby's "volunteered" to help me tomorrow, so I'm glad it won't be a solo job. I'll post pics of that once I've finished.


----------



## Blake_DFWlawn

Did 4 yards on about 4000 sqft one week ago. First cut with the reel and can definitely feel the difference. Will need a few more rounds, but happy at how quickly it's filling even with PGR.

May 19th 




Today, May 26th


----------



## Reel_Alabama

Blake_DFWlawn said:


> Did 4 yards on about 4000 sqft one week ago. First cut with the reel and can definitely feel the difference. Will need a few more rounds, but happy at how quickly it's filling even with PGR.
> 
> May 19th
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Today, May 26th


Looks great! Did you fertilize heavily before or after? I have an aerator rented tomorrow and 6 tons arriving on Saturday.


----------



## Blake_DFWlawn

@Reel_Alabama put about .5lb N out after the level and got a good soaking rain. Really helped it work down into the canopy.


----------



## Reel_Alabama

@Blake_DFWlawn 
Thanks. I'm going to throw down 1# of N using some Urea. I've been debating on spraying it prior to the sand or just spreading granular once I've finished. My PGR is about to wear off too so hopefully that helps push it through quickly.


----------



## mc80

Since fert takes time to get the grass going wouldnt it be better to lay down fertilizer a couple days before leveling? Also wouldnt it be better for the fertilizer to be closer to the roots instead of having to filter through the sand?


----------



## Mightyquinn

mc80 said:


> Since fert takes time to get the grass going wouldnt it be better to lay down fertilizer a couple days before leveling? Also wouldnt it be better for the fertilizer to be closer to the roots instead of having to filter through the sand?


I think you are correct but the only downside would be if the granular didn't dissolve all the way and somehow get caught up when dragging the lawn and then you have created spots in your lawn with more and less fertilizer in them. I don't think you are right or wrong either way.


----------



## SouthernTiftuf

Pricing out the cost of doing this the end of June or beginning of July and looking into gorilla carts to move the sand around. For 10 yards of sand is the 10 cubic foot cart best or too big/heavy to pull and is the 7 cubic better or too small?


----------



## ENC_Lawn

@Mightyquinn and others.

When spot leveling a Bermuda lawn.

If I lightly scalp the lawn where the lawn is green except for the occasional brown scalp marks.

The brown scalp marks are where I put my sand because those areas are lower correct?

Am I correct in my thinking?


----------



## SouthernTiftuf

ENC_Lawn said:


> @Mightyquinn and others.
> 
> When spot leveling a Bermuda lawn.
> 
> If I lightly scalp the lawn where the lawn is green except for the occasional brown scalp marks.
> 
> The brown scalp marks are where I put my sand because those areas are lower correct?
> 
> Am I correct in my thinking?


I believe where it's still green is the low spots since they weren't scalped. MQ feel free to correct me if I'm wrong


----------



## ellsbebc

ENC_Lawn said:


> @Mightyquinn and others.
> 
> When spot leveling a Bermuda lawn.
> 
> If I lightly scalp the lawn where the lawn is green except for the occasional brown scalp marks.
> 
> The brown scalp marks are where I put my sand because those areas are lower correct?
> 
> Am I correct in my thinking?


With rotary cut? I would think it's the opposite - the dark green spots would be the low spots because it has the most leaf material.

The scalped areas are (i) high spots or (ii) neighboring low spots that the mower wheels go in, causing the HOC to be lower and scalping the adjacent area under the mower deck during that pass.

Edit: @SouthernTiftuf beat me to it. Agree with him.


----------



## Mightyquinn

SouthernTiftuf said:


> ENC_Lawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Mightyquinn and others.
> 
> When spot leveling a Bermuda lawn.
> 
> If I lightly scalp the lawn where the lawn is green except for the occasional brown scalp marks.
> 
> The brown scalp marks are where I put my sand because those areas are lower correct?
> 
> Am I correct in my thinking?
> 
> 
> 
> I believe where it's still green is the low spots since they weren't scalped. MQ feel free to correct me if I'm wrong
Click to expand...

^^^^THIS is correct :thumbup:


----------



## Ccualumni

Decided to level the yard during the long weekend. 
I put my piles in the yard then run them over with a drag mat. All the drag mat seems to do is take a little off the top of each pile and pushes the rest down. I get really thick areas of sand. Should I add weight to the drag mat?

My Gorilla cart broke while I was towing it and the broken handle went into my ATV tire. Been a tough weekend so far.


----------



## Redtwin

@Ccualumni I knock the piles down with my landscape/sandtrap rake and then go over it with the drag. That sucks about the Gorilla cart. I've loved my so far other than the poor dump mechanism design.


----------



## Ccualumni

@Redtwin i had maximum loads in it. I have also filled it with rocks in the past. I was using my ATV so probably going faster than I should have. I was lucky the part went through my tire instead of my leg.

I bought another Gorilla cart as I still had a big pile of sand in my front yard. Still love the cart, just going to keep the loads in it a bit smaller.


----------



## Reel_Alabama

Redtwin said:


> @Ccualumni I knock the piles down with my landscape/sandtrap rake and then go over it with the drag. That sucks about the Gorilla cart. I've loved my so far other than the poor dump mechanism design.


This is what I did as well. Sorry about your cart and tire. It's a tough enough job as it is without the setbacks. Good luck.


----------



## ENC_Lawn

Mightyquinn said:


> SouthernTiftuf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ENC_Lawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Mightyquinn and others.
> 
> When spot leveling a Bermuda lawn.
> 
> If I lightly scalp the lawn where the lawn is green except for the occasional brown scalp marks.
> 
> The brown scalp marks are where I put my sand because those areas are lower correct?
> 
> Am I correct in my thinking?
> 
> 
> 
> I believe where it's still green is the low spots since they weren't scalped. MQ feel free to correct me if I'm wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^^^^THIS is correct :thumbup:
Click to expand...

@SouthernTiftuf @Mightyquinn @ellsbebc Thank you!


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## Ccualumni

The day just got worse…. Pulling the drag mat and the rope broke. Going to buy a new rope in the morning. Someone is trying to tell me I should have gone to the beach instead


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## Redtwin

@Ccualumni Why go to the beach when you can bring the beach to your lawn?


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## itsmejson

Redtwin said:


> itsmejson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I currently maintain at 1". Should I scalp to dirt or do a hard cut to a little less than 1"? After cutting is it ok to start laying down sand same day or do I wait a few days for the grass to start growing back?
> 
> 
> 
> Cut it as low as you can to make spreading and leveling easier. You can cut and start leveling on the same day. Drink lots of water and wear a wide-brimmed hat.
Click to expand...

Ty! I was trying to time leveling before my PGR app expired but it ended up expiring today. I won't be able to sand level until Thursday. Will this be an issue with the lawn already out of regulation vs coming out of regulation?

After I am done leveling I know most of you recommend fertilization right after. Do you apply 1# of N or .5lb? Also how soon after leveling should I apply a new app of PGR?


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## Ccualumni

Redtwin said:


> @Ccualumni Why go to the beach when you can bring the beach to your lawn?


HAHA. I tried your line on my wife and steam came out of her ears. She wanted to go to the beach this weekend.


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## Redtwin

My wife gets mad because a good percentage of the "yard beach" turns into "in the house beach".


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## Deltahedge

I got the drone out for a little while, but didnt get a ton of footage because I was kind of busy shoveling sand. But, here's a video I made showing the process at my house.

https://youtu.be/e0atnejmKoE


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## Redtwin

@itsmejson I have done sand leveling with the grass rebounding so that it grows through the sand quicker but it can get away from you real quick since you won't want to run your reel through the sand. I'm thinking this season I am going to just keep regulating as normal for my sand level. You could always apply the PGR before the scalp/sand and just push it with lots of N and water.


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## Ccualumni

I think I am doing something wrong when trying to level. I flattened all sand hills and spread it all out. When I run my drag mat, I still have areas where the sand is very thick. My yard was really bad as there were areas where the grass was great and other spots where there was no grass. It made the yard very bumpy. I worked all day Saturday, Sunday and Monday and there are still parts that need more work to get the grass to show through the sand.

I have more areas to do, so am wondering if i should fill in the lower spots and try to get it closer to being the same height before trying to level the entire area.

When I try to spread out the areas that are too thick, it ends up going on top of the higher grass and ends up keeping the lower area at the same height it was before.


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## itsmejson

@Deltahedge Awesome vid and great work!

@Redtwin Got it. I may go that route then of applying PGR after I'm done scalping.

Since this is my first level job I'm going to go with 10 yards for the 5500sqft I have. I kept reading a lot of members felt they were a little light on how much sand they needed.


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## Redtwin

@itsmejson The PGR needs to sit on the leaf blade to be effective so you may want to apply it before scalping if possible. Otherwise, it may not be as effective which wouldn't be the end of the world while growing through sand.


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## itsmejson

@Redtwin got it.

When you guys get sand delivered to you have them drop it off on the driveway? Any risk with the weight cracking your drive way?


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## Redtwin

I always have had an old beat up and cracked driveway. I just had it replaced this spring so I will be having them dump it at the end from now on and will be using a friends tractor to move it around. I pretty much have to buy it in 21-yards loads. I can get smaller but it costs the same.


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## thatguyhileman

The mortar/masonry sand you guys use…does it get hard as a rock if sitting in a pile? The sand I got last year and didn't use all of seems to clump really bad and then become rock hard if left in a pile. Is this still ideal for leveling? The sand I did use last year seemed to almost crack into sections while the grass was growing back through and I had to keep breaking it up and brushing it back smooth until the grass fully grew in. Does this sound normal? Red mortar sand from the local nursery.


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## Redtwin

Mine has a light reddish color to it but it's pretty much pure sand. It will clump and needs to be brushed in a few times during grow in but it doesn't get hard. I try to keep a pile handy in my backyard and the only issue I have is the bermuda wanting to take it over or my son playing in it and throwing it all over my mulch. It sounds like you might have a higher clay content in the mortar sand.


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## Ccualumni

I used masonry sand this weekend and it clumped. It even clumped in areas where I spread it out. The clumps can be a pain.

I had the guy drop the sand in my front yard. I was leveling the front and back so may as well have him put it where I need it. 
There is a guy on YouTube that has the big delivery truck drive right on his driveway.


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## Reel_Alabama

I had 5 tons delivered Saturday. It was an F-450 I believe with a dump bed. He backed up on my concrete driveway without issue.


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## Dono1183

I have them drop it on the driveway. But I already have a few cracks, so I don't worry too much.


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## Redtwin

It really depends on the skill of the driver. I had a guy deliver 5 loads to my backyard with no damage on my already messed up driveway. They sent another driver for the last load and came onto the driveway at a sharp angle across the edge and make huge ruts and cracks. I now ask for the specific driver and will wait a couple of extra days for him to be available.


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## itsmejson

Thx guys I played it safe and had them put it on the street.

Tomorrow is gonna be fun…. Wish me luck lol


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## Dono1183

itsmejson said:


> Thx guys I played it safe and had them put it on the street.
> 
> Tomorrow is gonna be fun…. Wish me luck lol


Good luck! It's gonna look awesome.


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## RangersFC

After you've put out your sand and used your leveling rake, do you just leave it until the grass grows through? Or do you go over it with your leveling rake every couple of days? I've always gone over it every 2 days or so, but now wondering if that is not needed or is counterproductive. What do you guys do?

I initially did it because the sand can get a bit crusty and the grass starts pushing it up in spots.


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## Redtwin

RangersFC said:


> After you've put out your sand and used your leveling rake, do you just leave it until the grass grows through? Or do you go over it with your leveling rake every couple of days? I've always gone over it every 2 days or so, but now wondering if that is not needed or is counterproductive. What do you guys do?
> 
> I initially did it because the sand can get a bit crusty and the grass starts pushing it up in spots.


That's exactly what I do for exactly the same reason.


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## itsmejson

Today I started leveling the lawn. I have to say I have a lot of respect for those of you who have tackled this project!

I literally started at 730 this morning with a scalp & then proceeded to lay piles down. I only made it half way through laying piles of my backyard & completing the front. So much for trying to complete this is one day.

Few concerns I have is I laid the sand on pretty thick hopefully that does not cause an issue. Also since I did not complete the back I still have to roll my gorilla cart across the side lawn, which I have leveled already. I may just need to go over with level rake once done again once I'm done bringing sand to the backyard.

Front:




Back:


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## Zone9aBoi

HOC question for the group:

If I cut at 1.5" and then level with 0.25" of sand - can I continue to cut at 1.5" post-leveling?

Will that have the same impact on my grass as raising my mower by one notch?


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## Mightyquinn

You should be fine as long as you stay after it as the crown of the plant will be below the sand.


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## itsmejson

Completed the level in the backyard



@JayGo You possibly interested in extra sand I have?


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## Vandy

Quick question, just moved into a house here in GA. I aerated today and of course it started pouring so I made quite the mess. I was only able to bag I would say 70-75% of the clay plugs. I plan on laying sand tomorrow to level.

I guess my question is, will leaving the rest of the cores cause any issues? I also unfortunately made a few ruts with the aerator it was so soggy. Hopefully the sand will fill in those spots.


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## JayGo

itsmejson said:


> Completed the level in the backyard
> 
> 
> 
> @JayGo You possibly interested in extra sand I have?


Leveling looks good. Do a heavy water cycle to help the sand settle more. Maybe some quick-release N like ammonium sulfate to help flush. It's gonna be great. Always fun to see how quickly it grows in. Take a picture every day at the same time/same angle. It's quick.

Thanks for offering the sand. I'm not quite ready to level this season yet. Have too much going on right now. If possible, hold on to it. Once you see how much better your lawn is, you'll never stop sanding. Ha ha


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## Mightyquinn

Vandy said:


> Quick question, just moved into a house here in GA. I aerated today and of course it started pouring so I made quite the mess. I was only able to bag I would say 70-75% of the clay plugs. I plan on laying sand tomorrow to level.
> 
> I guess my question is, will leaving the rest of the cores cause any issues? I also unfortunately made a few ruts with the aerator it was so soggy. Hopefully the sand will fill in those spots.


You should be fine. I wouldn't worry about it.


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## monsonman

Sand delivery: Check
Scalp: Check
Core Aerate: Check
Retrieve Cores: Check
32-0-0 Down: Check

Tomorrow the sand goes down


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## enforcerman

Leveling w/ sand is a very hard, time consuming labor of love. Even on smaller yards. Trust me, after the first time you will learn things to avoid in the future. I REALLY wish I owned a tractor.


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## monsonman




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## Kenny Penny

@monsonman how long before the aeration did you put down the N? I'm a little overdue and wondered if I should put down before I do my aeration next week.


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## monsonman

Kenny Penny said:


> @monsonman how long before the aeration did you put down the N? I'm a little overdue and wondered if I should put down before I do my aeration next week.


I aerated yesterday around 11am then at 5pm yesterday I sprayed a foliar app of 32-0-0


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## Rob_The_Nailer

~1,850 SF of Zeon Zoysia sod put down in September 2021. Location is Houston (zone 9A).

I have a lawn aeration contractor coming to pull plugs tomorrow (I will collect and discard the plugs). I plan to scarify, with a SunJoe, the areas that still have bald spots. Then add some Humichar and soil amendments before the leveling begins.

I have two yards of masonry sand coming on Thursday. Already purchased are a leveling rake, gorilla cart, and a 5'x3' drag mat.

*Question:

Should I put down a spoon feeding of some 46-0-0 urea or other quick release fertilizer before the sand comes so I have a chance to water it in before the granules get dragged into piles during leveling, or is it best to use my normal fert after the sand is down?*

My goal is to push growth to prevent smothering in the areas where the sand is thickest as I have several low spots that will need to be addressed over several leveling projects.

Thanks in advance, I love the education I'm getting here.


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## DocTodd

Need some advice before starting my level project. I have a slight "v" in my front yard to channel water across the lawn and out into the field. Is there anything specific you all would recommend to do in order to: 1. Not affect the flow across the yard, and 2. To not fill in the bottom of the "v" too much? Thanks


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## Reel_Alabama

Two weeks of recovery in drone pictures.


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## Twodollarblue

Looking good @Reel_Alabama. Did you guilt trip your neighbor in to topdressing their lawn where you would have some help?


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## Reel_Alabama

Twodollarblue said:


> Looking good @Reel_Alabama. Did you guilt trip your neighbor in to topdressing their lawn where you would have some help?


Thanks! There were actually 5 of us on the block that did it on the same day. 30k lbs of sand delivered that morning. We all rented an aerator the day before so we each only paid $12 to run it. It was nice. I live on a great street.


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## monsonman

DocTodd said:


> Need some advice before starting my level project. I have a slight "v" in my front yard to channel water across the lawn and out into the field. Is there anything specific you all would recommend to do in order to: 1. Not affect the flow across the yard, and 2. To not fill in the bottom of the "v" too much? Thanks


got a picture?


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## DocTodd

monsonman said:


> DocTodd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Need some advice before starting my level project. I have a slight "v" in my front yard to channel water across the lawn and out into the field. Is there anything specific you all would recommend to do in order to: 1. Not affect the flow across the yard, and 2. To not fill in the bottom of the "v" too much? Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> got a picture?
Click to expand...

First pic is the front of the house, looking to the west, and the second pic is on the north side of the house looking west. The guy that made the pad for the house basically where the driveway is and funneled the water out and around. It is pretty impressive in that I don't really get much standing water.

The front "valley" is fairly subtle but noticeable. The back…it is much steeper than the picture shows, especially on the right side close to the field. I've finally gotten comfortable with the ZTR on it.

Those valleys do stay soggy for a minute after heavy rains though. We had enough rain over the past couple weeks that I was afraid to get my ZTR out on the lawn for fear of leaving some nasty ruts. Probably should've chosen ruts over how out of control high the grass was.


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## Kicker

my personal opinion is you're not going to put out enough sand to alter that swale. I'd go ahead and top dress as normal.


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## monsonman

Kicker said:


> my personal opinion is you're not going to put out enough sand to alter that swale. I'd go ahead and top dress as normal.


my thoughts as well. id just be cautious of any rain in the forecast as to not wash too much away after putting it down.


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## DocTodd

monsonman said:


> Kicker said:
> 
> 
> 
> my personal opinion is you're not going to put out enough sand to alter that swale. I'd go ahead and top dress as normal.
> 
> 
> 
> my thoughts as well. id just be cautious of any rain in the forecast as to not wash too much away after putting it down.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the opinions. I'll proceed as planned. I guess worst case scenario is that I may need to put french drains down in those areas over time. I've already considered it, but want to wait until we have sod in the back and have a season or two of seeing how things go.


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## Rob_The_Nailer

It's been dry here in Houston. I have 2 yards of masonry sand coming on Thursday.

Is it best to let the soil dry out a little and water after leveling, or hydrate prior to putting down the sand?


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## itsmejson

It's been 15 days since my first level and lawn is coming in real nicely although the sides of the house definitely has not bounced back yet since it barely gets any sun.

Do you all think it will be ok to mow for first time? The right side is also still pretty sandy.

I applied 1 lb of N right after and I'm wondering if I should apply another round or would that be too much?

Jun 5



Jun 15


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## Jagermeister

I did my first sprigging and leveling job over the weekend. Wow, what a huge job! 18 tons delivered on Friday morning then ran around the city getting rental equipment (verticutter, roller, UTV), borrowed a large drag from @gooodawgs . Aerated last weekend. Verticutted and scalped on Friday evening (late). Cleaned up the yard on Sat morning, rented a skid steer from Home Depot. UTV wouldn't start and had to fight that several times (randomly started so had to keep it running). Sprigging and top dressing took a lot of time. My biggest mistake was putting too much sand in the back and not enough in the front. Although, my backyard has a lot of valleys and holes so needed it the most. My worry is it is burried in a lot of sand right now (probably up to an inch or 2 in the deepest spots). I am hoping it will push through. Luckily, it is in the sunniest section of the yard! Putting down lots of water and plan to fertilize.


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## gooodawgs

Looks awesome @Jagermeister ! Nice work - looking forward to more pictures. Now you have to get a new reel mower to appreciate it!


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## itsmejson

I leveled for first time beginning of June. Anyone experience their lawn looking extra uneven after leveling? I noticed the lawn looking pretty lumpy now that everything has settled.


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## thelawnpirate

Started the leveling project yesterday, doing the front and side yards tomorrow. Celebration in the back is loving the 100+ degree heat.


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## DocTodd

Is it too hot to scalp, let lawn recover, and then aerate & level before the end of the season? 
I'm currently mowing at 2.75-3" and would like to scalp down to 1-1.5" and level. Problem is that we are in the middle of 2 weeks of 100+ degree heat and most lawns are struggling with the heat. I am on well water, but still have a few areas struggling.
If I wait a couple weeks till the heat drops back to the 90's, that seemingly puts me starting the process first part of August and hopefully finishing by the end of August. First frost avg is Oct 23 per Google.


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## upslash

How do you all determine how much sand to throw down? I'm about to start a leveling project and trying to figure out how much sand to order and also how much I should throw at the yard. Some of the pictures in this thread show lawns with very little green showing through the sand.


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## Redtwin

upslash said:


> How do you all determine how much sand to throw down? I'm about to start a leveling project and trying to figure out how much sand to order and also how much I should throw at the yard. Some of the pictures in this thread show lawns with very little green showing through the sand.


It's generally 1 yard per 1000sf for maintenance leveling. For the first time level, I would go 1.5 to 2 yards per 1000sf because it will be a lot bumpier. For example, we recently did a sand level on a church project of zoysia that was laid in March. We put down over 40 yards on 13,000sf. If you have somewhere to store extra sand then I would order 2 yards per 1000sf, otherwise go with 1.5.


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## upslash

Redtwin said:


> It's generally 1 yard per 1000sf for maintenance leveling. For the first time level, I would go 1.5 to 2 yards per 1000sf because it will be a lot bumpier. For example, we recently did a sand level on a church project of zoysia that was laid in March. We put down over 40 yards on 13,000sf. If you have somewhere to store extra sand then I would order 2 yards per 1000sf, otherwise go with 1.5.


Thanks for the insight. I might go with 2 yards per 1k then. I've got some extra space at the end of my driveway; the sand won't hurt anything sitting there, plus I only want to pay the delivery fee once. My yard is pretty bumpy right now, especially around an area where I had a tree removed 3 years ago. No doubt there is some rot going on beneath the soil.


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## Twodollarblue

Redtwin said:


> upslash said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you all determine how much sand to throw down? I'm about to start a leveling project and trying to figure out how much sand to order and also how much I should throw at the yard. Some of the pictures in this thread show lawns with very little green showing through the sand.
> 
> 
> 
> It's generally 1 yard per 1000sf for maintenance leveling. For the first time level, I would go 1.5 to 2 yards per 1000sf because it will be a lot bumpier. For example, we recently did a sand level on a church project of zoysia that was laid in March. We put down over 40 yards on 13,000sf. If you have somewhere to store extra sand then I would order 2 yards per 1000sf, otherwise go with 1.5.
Click to expand...

@Redtwin how is that Palisades Zoysia recovering at your church?


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## Redtwin

@Twodollarblue It's all filled in other than some deep spots.

July 2


July 7


July 12


July 16


July 21


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## SoCalLowMow

Thought I was ready for a pretty light sand level on my 1 month old TifTuf. But then started to overthink it. I've got a small yard so didn't need a lot either.

Anyone ever used this Washed Plaster Sand? No mason sand available. Much more coarse than I was expecting. Should I use this or play sand?

I would screen this once for pebbles if I do use it.


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## SoCalLowMow

SoCalLowMow said:


> Thought I was ready for a pretty light sand level on my 1 month old TifTuf. But then started to overthink it. I've got a small yard so didn't need a lot either.
> 
> Anyone ever used this Washed Plaster Sand? No mason sand available. Much more coarse than I was expecting. Should I use this or play sand?
> 
> I would screen this once for pebbles if I do use it.


Decided I didn't want to mess with the pebbles and figured it would be less work to take these all back for play sand.

Temps are just starting to peak in our area so figured it was the perfect time. Did a light coat, about 3/4 cu yd per 1k (16x 50lb bags) just to help even out some of the install joints/ruts. Hit it with fertilizer after.


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## SoCalLowMow

1 week post scalp and light sand. Hard to be patient! Was hoping for more green by now.


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## SoCalLowMow

SoCalLowMow said:


> 1 week post scalp and light sand. Hard to be patient! Was hoping for more green by now.


Two weeks after scalp and light sanding. Not too bad. A few spots slower to come back still. Also not getting a full cut at 1" - only some spots have gotten that tall. But happy to see green again!


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## Redtwin

My spot level areas are filling in nicely.

August 21


September 3


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## Tomahawk31

Jagermeister said:


> All,
> 
> I have a large lawn and am planning to bring in 18 tons of sand to do my first level job. I will need gas powered equipment to do a job this big, a la @wardconnor ! I have a 7 cu ft gorilla cart to haul the sand all the way around the house to the back (where most of my large undulations are). I will rent a mini skidsteer to scoop and dump the sand.
> @gooodawgs built an @wardconnor steel drag that he will let me borrow.
> 
> Only problem is I need something to haul my cart and pull my drag. I can't seem to find a lawn tractor or ATV to borrow or rent. Sunbelt rentals has this AWD utility cart. Do you all think this would work or will it tear up the yard more (I have seen people use large tractors on lawns)? It is about 1100 lbs. Good thing it is fast! Thinking that if I do this when the ground is pretty dry and I will be apply sand anyway, small ruts and torn up grass would recover quickly and level. Appreciate your opinions on this one.


Central Alabama Top Dressing And Leveling Rental And Service | Scheduling and Booking Website


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## Bubba1855

I hope someone is reading this thread...I have a small front yard...1700 sq ft. I put down tiftuf sod June 1. It came up great. But I have lots of bumps, in fact so many and so high that I can't cut as low as I want to. My landscaper, who did not put the sod down, does leveling and he'll be doing it in late March. He's going to scalp, remove the clippings and sand level. Here's my idea. Given that I have a lot of high bumps I'm thinking I should do the following. After doing the scalping I want to set the rotary mower down another notch and basically dig up/remove only the high bumps. No need to remove the debris as it will be mostly dirt. Then do the sand leveling. Thoughts?
I live in the Charlotte, NC metro area.
Thank you in advance for your thoughts.


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## CLT49er

Bubba1855 said:


> I hope someone is reading this thread...I have a small front yard...1700 sq ft. I put down tiftuf sod June 1. It came up great. But I have lots of bumps, in fact so many and so high that I can't cut as low as I want to. My landscaper, who did not put the sod down, does leveling and he'll be doing it in late March. He's going to scalp, remove the clippings and sand level. Here's my idea. Given that I have a lot of high bumps I'm thinking I should do the following. After doing the scalping I want to set the rotary mower down another notch and basically dig up/remove only the high bumps. No need to remove the debris as it will be mostly dirt. Then do the sand leveling. Thoughts?
> I live in the Charlotte, NC metro area.
> Thank you in advance for your thoughts.


I think you can technically do that if your bumps pop out of your yard like a pimple. Lol. Personally I would use a straight shovel and would remove the debris. Might cause a mess when raking later on. Also wouldnt level until June at the earliest. Need that bermuda to be going full speed so it can grow through the sand. If your guy suggested March, that would throw a red flag for me. Suggests to me he has little experience in this. But it aint rocket science. 1 ton+ of mason sand per 1k at minimum and smooth out w a proper level rake or drag.


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## Bubba1855

thank you for the quick reply...


----------



## erdons

I’ve done leveling in March here in So Cal where temps are in the 70s during that time, the lawn isn’t growing too quickly but it took a few weeks and it worked out. I guess it depends on where you are.


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## Bubba1855

I agree with you about the leveling being too early, but he will probably want to reschedule later as he gets busy which will probably mean early May, which should be ok. If I use my rotary lawn mower to reduce the high spots I know that I will be 'sacrificing' the mower blade...but hey, it's only $20. My theory is that I can either put down lots of sand to raise the low spots or I can reduce the height of the high spots, reducing the amount of sand and time needed to level and hopefully reducing the need to re level again. Being a golfer, I know that Bermuda roots will respond and grow. I have irrigation and I will put down fertilizer after the leveling. My theory is that the 'high' spots that I remove will take a few weeks longer to grow back, but I can wait. 
God Bless and have a good day,
Bubba...
p.s. I'll provide photos as I progress...


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## Redtwin

I’ve leveled as early as March here in PC but I was dealing with sand being tracked everywhere for twice as long. I think my wife would seek marriage counseling if I ever did it that early again. Wait a little longer until it is growing full blast and you will keep the household happy.


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## rjw0283

@Bubba1855 I did a mid-April level last year here in Fayetteville, NC, and that was perfect timing. It recovered fast; by mid-may, you couldn't tell I had dumped all the sand on it. March may be a little early, but it all depends on the weather and how early your grass greens up; either way, it will be fine it just may take longer. 
I will be leveling again this year, and mid-April is probably my favorite time to do it... not super hot, and the grass will be fully recovered by mid-May, so you can enjoy it when it really looks good. 

As far as if you should remove the high spots... that is probably a good idea, but I am addicted to leveling, so I would probably just dump tons of sand on it every year until my gorilla cart wheels fall off... No matter how much leveling you do, it could always be leveler!


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## rjw0283

Redtwin said:


> I’ve leveled as early as March here in PC but I was dealing with sand being tracked everywhere for twice as long. I think my wife would seek marriage counseling if I ever did it that early again. Wait a little longer until it is growing full blast and you will keep the household happy.


My wife hates the sand as well and told me I could not level anymore... lucky for me, she drove the vehicle on the grass last fall and rutted it all up, I told her it's not a big deal, nothing that a few tons of sand will not cure... I took that as greenlight for another level this year


----------

