# Spring Pre Emergent Plans - Poke Holes!



## Jagermeister (May 18, 2021)

Hi All,

I figured I would kick off the upcoming season with a good debate around spring pre-em. BTW, shout out to @Amoo316 , @cldrunner , and @FATC1TY for helping me with my Fall pre-em strategy as my yard currently has zero weeds (prodiamine, indaziflam, simazine, and Negate) and my Negate app killed the baby poa / broadleaf weeds that sprung up in September. Thanks to @GoDawgs for sharing the Negate!

Just for some context, main areas of my lawn are thick but still have a lot of thin areas and I need my bermuda to grow in. I am addressing the thin areas by doing a lot of drainage improvements, removing / pruning trees, and will sprig a few large areas (mainly in the back).

My main weed problems last year were goosegrass and doveweed.

Arsenal includes prodiamine, simazine, indaziflam, pennant magnum, ethofumesate and sulfentrazone. I have quinclorac, Celsius and Certainty for any breakthrough.

*Here are my thoughts on pre-emergents this year. Appreciate any comments so please poke holes!*

*Round 1 - Early to mid February (entire lawn)*
3 month app of Prodiamine
6 month app of simazine (I was reading the label and seems like this is most effective when applying at full rate rather than split, and avoid dinging the bermuda after greenup)
If weeds, would add 3 way or MSM, maybe Negate if poa pops back up. Could also use Ethofumesate as long as lawn is fully dormant.

*Round 2 - After green up ~ Mid April*
Thick areas of lawn:
3 month app of Prodiamine
3 month app of Pennant Magnum
2 month app of Sulfentrazone (4oz/acre)
Post - kicker of Quinclorac

Thin areas of lawn where I plan to sprig:
No Prodiamine or Pennant Magnum to allow aggressive spreading and sprigging in May
Oxadiazon
2 month app of Sulfentrazone (can sprig one month after)
Post - kicker of Quinclorac

Sulfentrazone for pre-em on sedges and and quinclorac - combo has good post action on crabgrass, goose, and sedges if I have any breakthrough of baby weeds.

*Round 3 - Mid-Late June (depending upon temps)
*Thick areas of lawn:
3 month app of Pennant Magnum
2 month app of Sulfentrazone
Post - kicker of Quinclorac

Should I apply any herbicides to the sprigged areas? When? Should I do a light app of prodiamine?

*Round 4 Mid-Late July (depending upon temps)*
3 month app Sulfentrazone

*Round 5 - Sept 1 (fall pre-em program)*
Split apps of indaziflam, prodiamine, simazine (may actually wait to do the full app of simazine for my round 5.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

I think you're spending money that you don't have to spend. There is some substantial overlap on your herbicide choices.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Are you planning to pull from your existing Bermuda stand for the sprigs?

How large of an area are you sprigging/stolonizing?


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## Theycallmemrr (May 16, 2019)

Movingshrub said:


> I think you're spending money that you don't have to spend. There is some substantial overlap on your herbicide choices.


I agree. @Jagermeister Have you calculated how much this is going to cost in chemicals?

My plan for spring:
Round 1:
Prodiamine (quarter amount for the year)
Esplanade or Specticle-Flo (quarter amount for the year)
Simazine (1 qt/acre)
3 way or MSM

Round 2:
Round 1:
Prodiamine (quarter amount for the year)
Esplanade or Specticle-Flo (quarter amount for the year)
3 way or MSM

Fertilize every month with ~1 lb N/M depending on how the grass responds. You could go higher on the parts you want to fill in. Perhaps 1.5 lb N/M.

Spot treat weeds as they appear.


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## Jagermeister (May 18, 2021)

Movingshrub said:


> I think you're spending money that you don't have to spend. There is some substantial overlap on your herbicide choices.


Thanks, appreciate your input. Could you clarify where the overlaps are? I already have all of these chemicals on hand so cost is already sunk (I also picked up pennant at a really good price). I don't want to use indaziflam because of the severe root pruning and need for my bermuda to spread. My thoughts were to get multiple MOAs down plus a post kicker to create a 'summer zone defense' approach for summer weeds. The sulfentrazone has pre and post capabilities so combo of prodiamine and sulfentrazone is Echelon.

I had so much goosegrass last summer that I spent hours and hours hand pulling. I want to prevent this almost at all costs so that is why I want to blanket spray sulfentrazone and quinclorac to catch any breakthrough when weeds are young.


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## Jagermeister (May 18, 2021)

Movingshrub said:


> Are you planning to pull from your existing Bermuda stand for the sprigs?
> 
> How large of an area are you sprigging/stolonizing?


A pretty small area in the front, say 100 sq ft and a couple of large areas in the back. Probably about a thousand square feet. I plan to harvest spriggs from my lawn. I will scarify, scalp and aerate and then sand level probably mid-end May.

If I top dress, is it best to do with sand or peat moss?


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## Jagermeister (May 18, 2021)

Theycallmemrr said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> > I think you're spending money that you don't have to spend. There is some substantial overlap on your herbicide choices.
> ...


As I mentioned above, I already have these chems on hand so costs are sunk. Prodiamine and simazine are cheap. The sulfentrazone will be the most expensive per app ($60 per bottle). I have a lot of pennant on hand and got this at a good price:

$0.60 per ounce
1.56 ounce per 1000 sq ft annual max
14,000 sq ft of bermuda
Total cost: 
$13 per year if I treated the entire lawn

If using Specticle, I believe the cost would be $22 for the summer applications.


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## Theycallmemrr (May 16, 2019)

Jagermeister said:


> Theycallmemrr said:
> 
> 
> > Movingshrub said:
> ...


Since you have it cost is not a factor as you already made the investment. I have not checked the MOA of everything listed. But as long you have different MOAs which I assume you do because you mentioned the TN video which highlighted the zone defense approach. I think you will be good.


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## Jagermeister (May 18, 2021)

Does anyone know if I can use prodiamine if I go the plugging route on the smaller areas of my lawn? I am still thinking for the larger thin areas in the back, I will sprig.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Jagermeister said:


> Does anyone know if I can use prodiamine if I go the plugging route on the smaller areas of my lawn? I am still thinking for the larger thin areas in the back, I will sprig.


Yes.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Jagermeister said:


> Theycallmemrr said:
> 
> 
> > Movingshrub said:
> ...


Just because you owned the product, doesn't mean you have to apply them all. I have monument and Certainty, but I apply them for different requirements.

If we're doing a large scale sprigging or stolonizing project, ronstar. Simazine would be the backup. Maybe quinclorac if you want to test the soil residual attributes vs the damage to hybrid Bermuda behavior.

I would do prodiamine in the spring at whatever rate you need to use to get you to the fall. IF you have weeds to clean up, then simazine and/or three-way, depending on what you're targeting.

Specitcle in the fall, with another MOA included - simazine is cheap.

I don't recall quinclorac being affective on goosegrass. You may want to blanket app either dismiss and or Ronstar if you're going after goose grass since oxadiazon is particularly good on goose. You could apply it closer to germination time frame versus the prodiamine app earlier for crab.


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## rjw0283 (May 11, 2020)

that's a lot of chemicals. Everyone's yard is different. Prodiamine/simazine for fall and spring and a strong rate of Gallery in the summer seems to do the trick for my yard. I get the random sedge pop up but other than that pretty much weed-free.


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## Jagermeister (May 18, 2021)

Movingshrub said:


> Jagermeister said:
> 
> 
> > Theycallmemrr said:
> ...


Appreciate your comments and agree that we should not waste chemicals or risk undue damage to the turf. Here was my thought process when formulating this plan. Again, my biggest pain points last summer was lots of goosegrass and doveweed. Goosegrass was super hard to kill once mature unless I spent a lot of money on Revolver. I tried the tenacity plus simazine syngenta plan last year and that did a lot of damage to the bermuda (it did eventually kill the goose!). I spent a lot of time hand-picking the goose and was wanting to try and avoid this again.

For main / thick part of lawn:
Multi-MOA approach plus post-kickers to get any baby weeds (easier to kill immature weeds) like I did in the fall. Goosegrass has known resistance issues as well.

For round 1 - prodiamine (MOA 3) plus simazine (MOA 5) to prevent more Poa from germinating and kill and remaining poa. Prodiamine will prevent any initial germination or crabgrass during green-up and simazine broadens pre-emergent control of broadleaves plus has action against goosegrass.

For round 2 - prodiamine (MOA 3), pennant magnum (MOA 15), sulfentrazone (MOA 14), quinclorac (MOA 27+4). Prodiamine + Sulfentrazone = Echelon and sulfentrazone + quinclorac = Solitaire.

Echelon has strong pre-em action against crabgrass and sedges
Pennant has strong pre-em action against Sedges and Goosegrass and doveweed
Solitaire post-em works well against small crabgrass and goosegrass and according to the label, expands sulfentrazone's ability to control goose to the 4 tiller stage, from 2. Applying pre-emptively in case there is any breakthrough, while still immature.



Goosegrass germinates later than crab and so you get more effective control when you split your apps. Same with doveweed and sedges. I had goosegrass germinate all summer so I am hoping this extends the controls via my multiple application approach.

I wouldn't say I am doing a large scale stolonizing / sprigging project - only about 1000 sq ft and the other parts I am hoping for the bermuda to spread so avoiding the root pruners for my pre-em. I would like to only spot-treat the oxadiazon and only put down in the thin areas.

I am really wondering what I am missing as it seems like a very a summer weed 'zone defense' approach. What are the risks of the approach I laid out? Will the sulfentrazone cause too much damage? Would you recommend removing one of the chemicals like quinclorac? I could eliminate the heavy sulfentrazone treatments in June / July and not get the pre-em against sedges as I was able to control these pretty easily with Certainty.

Again appreciate you all helping me think this through!


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## Jagermeister (May 18, 2021)

@CenlaLowell I believe you had good success using pennant magnum? Did you mix this with any other pre-ems like prodiamine?


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

Jagermeister said:


> @CenlaLowell I believe you had good success using pennant magnum? Did you mix this with any other pre-ems like prodiamine?


Nope I'm spraying magnum in February or March weather depending and prodiamine in late April. I haven't had problems with crabgrass in years so when the prodiamine runs out I'm not ordering anymore. I should be switching to spectacle flo.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

Keep it simple, just do a split application in the spring. Half during your normal feb/march timing and then do another late april/may for the goosegrass.

Specticle half rate fall. Half rate spring. Toss in an oxidiazon kicker for the late, and figure a measured approach to the suspect areas.


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