# What fuel do you use?



## SwardmanGuy (Oct 30, 2017)

What kind of fuel do you use? 87, 89 or 93 octane? Did you ever have any troubles with some kind of fuel and engine? What problems? And What are the best engines (brand, type) for you? (still according to lawn mowers/reel mowers)
Thanks


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I use 93 octane with Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer. I have a Honda GX120 engine on my greens mower.

I think most people will say that Honda small engines are some of the best for mowers with Kawasaki and Subaru up there with them. I also think Briggs and Stratton engines are a step below the other 3 I mentioned.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Whatever the manual calls for.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

I use 87 in my GM1000. The manual says not to use premium.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

dfw_pilot said:


> I use 87 in my GM1000. The manual says not to use premium.


Does it say why NOT to use higher octane?


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Generic warnings:


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Whoa, a flashback to my street rod days.
TMI:
Octane is an indicator of detonation reduction. A rating system. In high compression engines, if the octane wasn't high enough, you could get engine knock (or sometimes dieseling). Low octane fuel could pre-ignite just from the action of high compression and then when the spark plug ignited the rest of the fuel, the two shock waves would meet creating the knocking sound that could damage the engine. Lawn equipment engines are low compression and are designed/engineered to use lower octane fuels for efficiency and performance. 
Follow the advice of pennstater2005 and dfw_pilot.


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

Guys please don't waste your money on high octane gas. It will not make it run "better" or add "power". 87 octane goes in my mowers and 89 octane goes in my stringer trimer, blower, and edger because the manual says to use 89.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

I use 87 Octane E10 in my Briggs & Stratton (Toro).


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## massgrass (Aug 17, 2017)

I use stabilized 87 octane in all of my lawn care equipment. I also exclusively use Top Tier detergent gas (usually Shell or ExxonMobil).


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## monty (Jul 25, 2017)

My local mower repair guy told me to use higher octane gas. So since then I've always done that. Anyone have any good references discussing octane and small engines?


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

My understanding is that high octane is for high compression engines, which is not the case for lawn mowers.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

monty said:


> My local mower repair guy told me to use higher octane gas. So since then I've always done that. Anyone have any good references discussing octane and small engines?


In general, one of the best things to do is to follow the manufacturer's recommendations for your small engine. For example, Briggs & Stratton has Fuel Recommendations on their website if you have a Briggs & Stratton engine. I'm sure the other small engine manufacturers have similar information on their support sites, too.

Personally, I use 87 octane automotive gasoline (which now has up to 10% ethanol) in my 4-stroke Briggs & Stratton lawn mower.

In my 2-stroke equipment (Echo leaf blower and Toro snowblower), I use 89-octane (as recommended by Echo for the leaf blower) with the appropriate 50:1 mix of 2-stroke oil. It is common for 2-stroke engines to need slightly higher octane in the gasoline, as the gasoline is diluted a tiny bit when mixed with the 2-stroke oil. If I'm buying gas in early winter, so that it will be used up before spring when I switch back to the leaf blower instead of the snow blower, I'll use 87-octane in the Toro snowblower, as that's all that Toro says is necessary.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

I have always used Amoco/BP Ultimate. I fell for the water clear extra refining step. It is listed at the pump as 93 octane.
I know the octane rating is irrelevant. But the note quoted above is probably a case where an error sneaked into an instruction manual. You cannot harm an engine by using higher octane gasoline although you may be wasting your money.
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/1996/09/amoco-settle-ftc-charges-over-crystal-clear-ad-campaign

BP claims lower sulfur content which could reduce corrosion and exhaust system deterioration. They also claim four times the detergency of "other"gasolines. When they first advertised this gasoline I saw the glass of clear gas and imagined maybe it would take an extra length of time to turn into the dreaded varnish. This all could be imaginary. I am sure I never poured gasoline more than 18 months old into a tank. In Australia Ultimate doesn't have ethanol in it but here I think it has some. I wonder if the increased detergency (BP InVigorate) is just the same ingredients as Stabil added at refinery. Anybody remember Techron injector cleaner. One of the gas companies added it to their fuel. (In the 80s iirc)

I have just filled my four JerryCans with 100LL (Low Lead) avgas for the second time. (about 15 gallons) So far so good. I wanted to get the ethanol out.

Regarding the engine question I don't think that anyone ever got fired for buying any Honda product. But before dismissing Briggs and Stratton remember that they have multiple product lines. They have motors to put on lawn mowers that retail for $120. Somebody bought one of those for the university where I work and the replacement plastic carburetor retails for $20. But actually it runs pretty well (mowing a large environmental sciences ag plot WAY more than it was designed to do and living in a shed.) They also have Industrial/Commercial and Rental grade engines that seem pretty bullet proof.

I had a 9 hp Tecumseh throw a connecting rod through the crankcase side wall, but that happened a decade after I started wondering when that chipper shredder was going to fail catastrophically. I had instructed my sons not to stand in line with the flywheel effect of the impeller thinking it might seize and start spinning down the driveway. It threw the rod instead. It had been eating large quantities of gumballs for decades. (Note to younger forum members If you have a Sweet Gum tree[_Liquidambar styrax _] on your property just bite the bullet and have it removed. I wish I had done that in 1982. We had six of them. Live and Learn :lol: )

My 1998 Scotts Tractor built by Murray has a Kohler Command engine (they would have put a cheeper engine in it but Kohler had not yet come out with the second tier Courage engines yet) That tractor has lived outside for pushing twenty years, including about three years without running. I had someone go through it during my move and it still runs like a champ. I think they kitted the carb and stuck a new fuel pump on it.

My new Hustler Flip Up has a 25 horse Kohler. They like Briggs have multiple lines of engines too now. I don't know where this one sits in the line up. But it is new and seems to run great. The only complaint I have is they have eliminated the choke control on the carb. One time (out of maybe 30 or 40 starts so far) when the engine was warm the "Smart Choke" flooded the engine. It still started but took a little throttle jockeying to get it to blow the flood out. One time only. Briggs used have a Chokeamatic feature that worked in a similar fashion. I didn't care much for that either but I have to say it did work. (the above mentioned cheapo carb on the briggs budget mower has auto chokeamatic).

When I researched the Hustler I found that some folks like Kohler and some like Kawasaki. I have never had a Kawasaki but they make motorcycles and aircraft engines so how bad could they be. I am sure that all the mentioned manufacturers have good and bad models. In the shopping research it seemed that all the professional zero turns have either a Kawasaki or a Kohler.

I have a Billy Goat blower with a Subaru six or seven horse. I think that might actually be an old Wisconsin Robin. I am not sure where it is made. (Edit: Wisconsin Robin is a trademark of Subaru small engines and doesn't seem to have anything to do with the old USA made Wisconsin Engine company that went away ages ago.)

And now you can buy engines from China at Harbor Freight for crazy low prices. I am curious what kinds of experiences folks have with those.

I think in both gasolines and engines , if you are lucky, you get what you pay for. I have to say I have marveled at how bad condition a lawn mower engine can be and still run. For those occasional carb clogs I always keep GumOut and starting ether in the garage. Also teflon penetrating oil which I sometimes spray into the cylinder before using ether. Very few things will fail to start if you have a spark and these three products.

One other thing that I will mention is there is a trend now to run even surprisingly small engines on propane/lpg. This has lots of benefits. The engines seem to love it. Very little deposits. A certifieable genius friend of mine converted all his power equipment. But he has a machine shop in a shed in his back yard and had a career as a product developer. Most of the conversions that you see can only run at one throttle setting usually rated rpm (often 3600 rpm) They are good for generators and compressors that run at one speed. Getting a throttleable conversion raises the cost. Many professional lawn care products are available with propane fuel systems. They raise the cost of purchase. I don't know how the fuel economy is. I am told it is good.

https://golehr.com/propane-powered-lawn-and-garden-products/
They seem to be phasing out propane in favor of rechargeable Lithium Ion batteries. I am going to be an old dog about that.

http://www.allpropanemowers.com/


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

monty said:


> My local mower repair guy told me to use higher octane gas. So since then I've always done that. Anyone have any good references discussing octane and small engines?


Ridgerunner above posted a great explanation. Unless your mower is forced induction (turbo or supercharger) or a high compression engine using higher octane fuel than what is recommended is a waste of money.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I agree with the above regarding octane/compression ratios, but I usually buy 91 octane as that is the only stuff I can get that is ethanol-free around here.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Fuel varies significantly by region so one mans advice may not apply to you in your area. First priority, get fuel that is ethanol free. If that's only premium and you don't mind a few bits extra per gallon, by all means, help yourself. (DFW - That's the first time I've seen premium fuel explicitly condemned in a manual, huh.) If you are fortunate enough to have a choice between 87 E-Free and Premium, go with the 87. The high-test will not hurt, but it won't help any either.

If you are unfortunate enough to live in an area where all fuel is E-10, do not despair, all is not lost. If you do not use more than a couple gallons a year, canned fuel available from HD/Lowes/TSC/Etc. may be a viable option (it's at least 92 Octane BTW) for you, or you may choose to run canned pre-mix fuel in your handhelds (2-cycle) and pump fuel in the bigger engines. E-10 is not really the bloody-fanged monster it is often made out to be. Practice good storage habits, use some sort of ethanol rated fuel treatment (eg. Star-Tron) and you are unlikely to have a problem.

Some guys like to use 100LL AVGAS in their OPE, after all, it seems like it's nearly perfect for the job. Most OPE doesn't have a catalyst to foul with the lead. 100LL is designed for low-compression, low-rpm engines. It is also designed to keep a fuel system clean, and not damage expensive or irreplaceable components in vintage engines. And it's designed to store well for long periods of time. Plus it's dyed blue, how can it get any better than that? But one thing to keep in mind, the engines on our OPE are not exhausting outside behind us as we cruise down the highway or at 10,000ft+. These engines often exhaust 3-4 feet in front of our face or at least in our immediate vicinity. Food for thought.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

The exhaust is a good point. I was at one of my local lawn mower stores where they were trying to sell me the five gallon drums of VPI ethanol free for $80. (For $80 I could actually have a lawn service mow my lawn and I would say that I use at least three gallons each time if I mow the whole place) I asked him about Avgas and he said he knew customers that did that but that most of the professionals "did not want to breathe that all day every day" and I certainly can see the point of that. But for once every week or two and the amount of time I would find myself straight downwind of the "plume" , the risk is worth it to me. I am 66 and grew up pumping and breathing ethyl. A few more micrograms is unlikely to hurt me. It is definitely something to think about though.

I did make sure to terrorize my two sons to NEVER EVER put avgas in any of the cars or they would get to pay for the new catalytic converter. I similarly showed them the color of it and although we had pretty good fuel can discipline here with respect to 2/4 cycle fuel , it could be confused with 2 cycle mix. Especially since previously in our garage 4 cycle was clear.
But they do seem trainable.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

gene_stl said:


> But they do seem trainable.


 :lol:


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

I only put ethanol free fuel in all my small engines. It's higher octane by nature. Not sure of the number. It's easy to get where I live.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Not to go off on a tangent, but is anyone old enough to remember Sunoco Selecta-pumps? They had a dial on the side where you could select the fuel grade 190 to 260 in increments of 10? Each increase would be around +2 of octane rating. 200 was regular for about $0.27/gal and 240, was about $0.54/gal at the time. We'd make changes to our engines, then start out with 260 and keep dropping down until it'd start knocking then go back up one grade and hope you could still afford to drive it.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Ridgerunner said:


> Not to go off on a tangent, but is anyone old enough to remember Sunoco Selecta-pumps? They had a dial on the side where you could select the fuel grade 190 to 260 in increments of 10? Each increase would be around +2 of octane rating. 200 was regular for about $0.27/gal and 240, was about $0.54/gal at the time. We'd make changes to our engines, then start out with 260 and keep dropping down until it'd start knocking then go back up one grade and hope you could still afford to drive it.


Don't remember that but that's pretty cool!


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

I do remember that. But at the time I was driving a 61 Chevy with a straight six. It only needed the lowest octane 
_eau de dinosaur_. It probably proportioned tetraethyl lead into the fuel according to the setting.

During my research I read the statement that it all comes out of the fractionating tower at 87 octane and the octane is raised by adding additives either tetraethyl lead or non lead additives. Actually for all the annoyance it causes the ethanol is part of that raising. But there are also other better non ethanol octane improvers.

That Selecta Pump was when the car makers bragged about high compression. You can't do that today fellas.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

I used to drive _leaded_ fuel in a '74 Super Beetle, my first car. It helped lube the engine and ran great. I miss that car.

From the way-way back machine:


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Beetles were great cars. :thumbup: Very portable. 4 guys could could carry one away. 
Problem with lead was having to change plugs almost as often as oil.
Oh. A bow-tie? No ascot?


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

dfw_pilot said:


> I used to drive _leaded_ fuel in a '74 Super Beetle, my first car. It helped lube the engine and ran great. I miss that car.
> 
> From the way-way back machine:


Great pic! Thanks for sharing!

Grass looks pretty green, too!


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## massgrass (Aug 17, 2017)

dfw_pilot said:


> I used to drive _leaded_ fuel in a '74 Super Beetle, my first car. It helped lube the engine and ran great. I miss that car.
> 
> From the way-way back machine:


Was that pic taken right before you got people to start dancing again in the small town you moved to?


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

^^^ Haha!

I did love the fact that when others were stuck in the snow, I never got stuck.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

massgrass said:


> dfw_pilot said:
> 
> 
> > I used to drive _leaded_ fuel in a '74 Super Beetle, my first car. It helped lube the engine and ran great. I miss that car.
> ...


So DFW gots happy feet? I KNEW there was something about that picture, but I couldn't place it. Nice catch.


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## HoosierDaddy (Sep 5, 2017)

Ethanol-free. I have a station just a few miles from me. https://www.pure-gas.org/


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## monty (Jul 25, 2017)

HoosierDaddy said:


> Ethanol-free. I have a station just a few miles from me. https://www.pure-gas.org/


I don't have any stations close by me, but I'm curious what is the cost per gallon compared to E-10


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

monty said:


> HoosierDaddy said:
> 
> 
> > Ethanol-free. I have a station just a few miles from me. https://www.pure-gas.org/
> ...


The stations around me that have it are around .50-.70 more per gallon


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

I just looked at pure-gas again and found two places in reasonable distance from me that have ethanol free gas.
I will investigate. The other times I looked they only showed Poplar Bluff. But in addition to the two near me it looks like every single small town in Missouri has it. I used to travel Missouri as a sales rep. Unfortunately all these places were too far away compared to the airport. But these new two aren't too bad. Whoopee!


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

I will say pure gas had one listed near me a few years ago but there wasn't one. I believe users can tag stations as having it. I would call before I actually drove out.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

One of our gas stations has ethanol free gas. We have a lot of off road vehicles and ATVs come through town so I imagine that's why the offer it. I run it in anything I fill up with a gas can. The only thing that's kinda a PITA is that it uses the same line as the ethanol choices use, not a dedicated pump. I'll put a few gallons of gas in my truck that way the ethanol gas gets pumped out of the line before filling my cans.


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## kds (Apr 28, 2017)

I am surprised that in the land of corn (and one of the biggest ethanol producers, if not the biggest), in Iowa all of the gas stations have ethanol-free gas. It's crazy to think that you guys are having a hard time finding regular unleaded in other states.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

The two stations in St. Louis turned out to be speed shops that sell five gallon drums of ethanol free for about $80  
Guess I'll have to stick with the avgas. It's amazing that lots of country towns have the ethanol free and St. Louis doesn't.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Most of Indy gas is 10% ethanol.


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## HoosierDaddy (Sep 5, 2017)

G-man Countrywide in Noblesville has ethanol-free.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

I cringed when I bought a 32oz can of tru fuel for nearly $7. I only use a touch of it in each small engine at the end of the season but still!


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## cclaeys (Dec 2, 2017)

av 100 - with stihl oil in the 2 stroke toro


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## cclaeys (Dec 2, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> dfw_pilot said:
> 
> 
> > I use 87 in my GM1000. The manual says not to use premium.
> ...


depends on the compression, you wont hurt it but you are wasting your money, there are no additional cleansers, ethanol is the real problem, unless you run them alot, like we do our cars or the "pros" do.


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## free_safety (Dec 11, 2017)

I have never used anything other than 87 on any of my tools. I usually read the manual from start to finish whenever I buy equipment and have never seen any manual calling for the use of premium.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

I just always try to get away from ethanol if possible.


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## MsTin (Sep 5, 2017)

Yeah, I got my first Stihl Kombi system and they told me to only use the Motomix from Stihl. Problem is that the nearest dealer is 45 minutes away so to get that mix is a PITA. can I use something else that is available at Home Depot, etc that is just as good if not better?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

MsTin said:


> Yeah, I got my first Stihl Kombi system and they told me to only use the Motomix from Stihl. Problem is that the nearest dealer is 45 minutes away so to get that mix is a PITA. can I use something else that is available at Home Depot, etc that is just as good if not better?


I have been using 93 octane with Stihl Ultra Oil mix in my Kombi motor for 8-9 years now without one issue. I think they were just trying to up sell you on the Motomix.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

MsTin said:


> Yeah, I got my first Stihl Kombi system and they told me to only use the Motomix from Stihl. Problem is that the nearest dealer is 45 minutes away so to get that mix is a PITA. can I use something else that is available at Home Depot, etc that is just as good if not better?


Tru-Fuel is available off the shelf at the major big box stores and will be just as good. The red cans are 50:1 mix and should work just fine. Your Kombi will run just fine on regular pump gas mixed with oil at 50:1. If you can find ethanol free gas in your area, that's even better. (The canned fuel is already e-free)


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## Wolverine (Jan 17, 2018)

100% 90 octane ethanol free in all small engines.


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## Stegs (Aug 29, 2017)

yep 90 octane ethanol free fuel for any small engine i have. Mower, push mower, power washer, atv, golf cart, etc.....


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## Pamboys09 (Apr 16, 2019)

What brand do you guys use?

For GM1600 is 87 on Shell good?

Is that ethanol free?


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

I recently switched to ethanol free for all my equipment. More of an experiment of sorts but everything seems to run so much better and less fuel. I would not have bought the big box store stuff but there is a gas station that I pass frequently that sells the stuff. So far so good but Im sure its overkill on some level...


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

ctrav said:


> I recently switched to ethanol free for all my equipment. More of an experiment of sorts but everything seems to run so much better and less fuel. I would not have bought the big box store stuff but there is a gas station that I pass frequently that sells the stuff. So far so good but Im sure its overkill on some level...


My stuff definitely seems to run better as well. No more hiccups in the leaf blower or the riding mower. Both were giving me a bit of trouble recently.


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## Pamboys09 (Apr 16, 2019)

pennstater2005 said:


> ctrav said:
> 
> 
> > I recently switched to ethanol free for all my equipment. More of an experiment of sorts but everything seems to run so much better and less fuel. I would not have bought the big box store stuff but there is a gas station that I pass frequently that sells the stuff. So far so good but Im sure its overkill on some level...
> ...


What brand you guys use? Is this avaible via common gas station? Like chevron or shell?


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Not sure what brand. Use the link below to possibly locate a station near you. I have two within 15 miles of me.

https://www.pure-gas.org


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

Pamboys09 said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> > ctrav said:
> ...


I get mine at a Texas chain mega gas station called Buc-ee's!


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## TNTurf (Mar 20, 2019)

I use either 87 or 91 ethanol free. The difference is which place I buy from they each have a different octane they offer. I have not used an ethanol fuel in any of my lawn equipment in many years.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Just use all ethanol free in everything, since i only have 2.5ksqft I probably only go through 5-6 gallons in a season between my mower and Echo PAS225. Still hurts though when they quote me like 5.25 a gallon, we have really shitty gas prices here.


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## driver_7 (Jun 28, 2018)

91 Ethanol Free is what I have available close by, works great for all my engines so far.


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## Dkrem (Mar 16, 2019)

I use premium in all my small engines, I feel it stores better and I put seafoam and PRI treatments in every jug when it gets home, before they can eat it. My car requires premium, so getting jugs of 87 would be more work anyway.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

My preference for small engines is non-ethanol gas (real gas).

I'm a firm believer that adding corn syrup to an engine gums it up. :rofl:

On my Timemaster, I preferred using it without a stabilizer.

For weedeaters and backpack blowers that go through lots of fuel throughout the season, I prefer adding 2 cycle engine oil that is at least 30 years old which I inherited from my wife's grandfather. (not kidding) End of season I transition to the Stihl premium oil with stabilizer. I use it because it's free, not necessarily the "best". Works fine. Sometimes cost makes it the best, right? Free is dang attractive.

For my chainsaw which gets less regular use, but absolutely must function when I need it to, I use only the Stihl premium mix in oil.

My triplex takes diesel, I purchase it from BP, and add a little diesel treatment to it to keep it from gelling up when cold. I don't always use it over the summer.


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## twolf (Jan 25, 2019)

Just a side note. Premium gas has higher combustion temperature and faster combustion.
Using premium gas when the manufacturer recommends 87 is not necessarily does any good to your equipment and might be just the opposite.


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## Groundskeeper Willie (Feb 22, 2019)

@Pamboys09 A pump that dispenses ethanol free gas will be conspicuously labeled as such, at least around here in GA. It won't be a selection you can make with a button, it will be a physically separate hose or pump. You can find locations for ethanol free fuel near you on the website pure-gas.org.


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## silvercymbal (Sep 17, 2018)

As far back as I can remember I have consistently and only run standard 87 octane fuel from regular gas stations. Despite 1000's of posts of ethanol damage, etc I have never had a single issue related to using regular fuel in 100s of pieces of equipment, 2 strokes, atvs, mowers. I have friends that swear by ethanol free gas. My theory has always been that most fuel problems are from improper storage and losing track of the age of fuel. Rotating fuel is a pain but with the amount of gear I take care of and dependacy on generators in winter I have to. This was one of my early videos and not exactly like watching Star Wars. but what you see is the real deal and how I do it every year without one issue.

https://youtu.be/KwfAEGZiE2I


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

I use Shell gasolines in all my vehicles and machines. I have been using Shell fuel almost all my life - Shell stations are practically everywhere in the Southern states of the U.S., and I used to race two stroke motorcycles, which ran great on it.

It is not just a matter of brand loyalty - I have their credit card and Fuel Rewards program to save me 5 cents a gallon....

I have some vehicles which require premium fuel, so I use Shell's 93 octane Nitro Plus in those high performance engines.

I use the premium fuel in the winter when I don't use up as much fuel as I do in the warmer months, so no issues arise....


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## RayTL (Jun 4, 2018)

I waste my money on TruFuel, but the mower, blower, and trimmer seem to love it.


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## Pamboys09 (Apr 16, 2019)

Is chevron 94 ethanol free?


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

I only use premium gas. Whatever the gas station has as premium. I notice better starting and more fuel freshness with premium. I can have the fuel can (not in engine) sit around for two months during the winter and still start whatever machine right up without any use of stabilizers, etc.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Even premium gas has ethanol. It's only ethanol free if is noted as such.


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