# Scotts or United Seeds?



## dmvernon (Jun 25, 2018)

I thought I would make a first post a contentious one. I am planning on overseeding the thin TTTF patch I inherited from the previous owner of my home. I still cannot decide whether I want to use Scott's Tall Fescue mix or a mixture from United Seeds (Super Turf I, II, possibly a mono of Valkyrie LS). Now, before you bring out the pitchforks for my consideration of a big box store brand, let me explain my reasoning on Scott's.

- Irrigation is difficult for me (10,000 sq ft), anything that can help keep the seed moist is a welcome addition. Obviously the seed needs to stay moist, but if a seed coating means 30% less watering or something from me, that's pretty great.
- The seed cultivars used are quite nice (Faith, Duration, Gazelle II) and seem to have comparable NTEP ratings with the cultivars that United Seeds stocks.
- The seed coating that Scott's applies is probably more consistent and even than any coating I could do myself with Delta Ag or Soil Moist? I mean it does take up 50% of the bag content vs. the tiny amount recommended to be used with Soil Moist or Delta Ag.
- If the seeding rates truly are 50% less than what is needed with untreated seed, than the pricing per pound isn't so outrageous.
- I have read that the coated seed is less desirable to birds and they just don't touch it

Anyway, just curious if anyone has Scott's vs. boutique seed experiences to share (Seed Super Store, Hogan, United). Is Scott's really that bad? Let me know...


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## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

I think the concern with Scott's is the other crop and weed seed which might seem small but could potentially be more problematic than expected. Also, if you factor in the price for the actual seed by doubling the price for a bag of Scott's then it is not much cheaper than buying a better quality bag of seed. I have used Scott's seed in the past at my prior home and I do think the coating helps but not enough to justify the cost. I prefer grass seed and grass seed only.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

Hey welcome to TLF...I think first off you should read the cool season lawn guide. Then come back and let us know what tier you want. That way you can be led in the right direction. I can tell you this I've used Scotts and Pennington both came up fine. Now that I got the bug (and know better)I want the best lawn I can have Scotts is just not good enough anymore. I want elite cultivars with 0% weeds and other crop.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The coating help if you forget to irrigate, but in my opinion, they don't reduce the total qty of water the seed needs.

You could also get yellow jacket Brandenburg seed (coated) that has zero weeds. It is used in sports fields.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Most people here probably tend to water properly, so I doubt double the seed would be required compared to one with a coating.

Bob Hogan had some good things to say about at least one of the cultivars that Scotts tends to use when I talked with him last year and ordered seed. In fact, he was personally involved with it in the past, and it's still considered excellent today. The other two that were in my particular bag, he said were older but not bad by any means...they were very good in their day.

I managed to get a 3 lb bag of the coated stuff for around 6 bucks with coupons, and will use it in the low input area.

I am going to look into doing my own coating, too...using soilmoist seed coat with unciated seed.

United Seed is great, too. I buy from whoever has what I need of the major seed companies.


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## dmvernon (Jun 25, 2018)

Hey everyone, I just wanted to give an update. Based on your recommendations and a lot of reading of other threads in this forum, I decided to go with United Seed's Super Turf II. It came in the mail yesterday and I took a picture of the seed label for my particular blend below:



The pricing for 50 lb and shipping for this particular blend came out to about $142 if anyone is curious. I appreciate that they have an online store. I also noticed that the pricing on monoblends is cheaper (about $125 shipped) if you're interested in any of their cultivars. The TTTF selection is outstanding. I also ended up emailing one of their sales guys and he was very helpful.

My reasoning with this choice is this is my first overseeding and I am not doing a renovation. So, I wanted to have a large variety of genetic diversity to make sure that my lawn survives our hot St. Louis summers. I am definitely not ready for a monoculture. Super Turf II is a 90/10 TTTF & KBG mix, which is what the University of Missouri Extension recommends for our area. Supposedly the blend helps with the weaknesses KBG and TTTF show in the St. Louis climate respectively.

I also ended up buying a package of Soil Moist seed coat to get the moisture insurance of the Scott's seed coating. Just wanted to say thank you for the help. I am excited to get my project started.


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## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

I had a 25 lb bag of the same seed arrive on Monday which I plan on using for an overseed and bare patch fill. I'm not too crazy about the KBG in this blend as it's not my preferred choice, but I do like the TTTF mix and it will be interesting to see how this seed does/looks in already established lawns. Good luck to you!


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## dmvernon (Jun 25, 2018)

SpiveyJr said:


> I had a 25 lb bag of the same seed arrive on Monday which I plan on using for an overseed and bare patch fill. I'm not too crazy about the KBG in this blend as it's not my preferred choice, but I do like the TTTF mix and it will be interesting to see how this seed does/looks in already established lawns. Good luck to you!


Thanks! I am not crazy about the KBGs, but from what I understand it isn't really United Seed's specialty. It is surprisingly hard to find 90/10 TTTF/KBG blends (at least I had trouble finding them) and it is definitely way cheaper than making a custom blend with Super Seed Store or trying to buy all the cultivars yourself in excess quantity..

I am also a little skeptical on how well the KBG will grow at all in an overseed situation? I know I have read around that KBG gets out competed in non-renovation situations. I have had some luck myself seeding a few areas with Scott's KBG mix into existing lawn, but I am interested to see if any of the KBG will come up. I have low expectations.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

I wonder if they ship different blends to different regions. I also got my SuperTurf II about a week ago and the varieties are Firecracker SLS (which I love, good shade and disease tolerance), No Net (Flame variety), Thunderstruck, and Rhambler with the same Jackpot and Dauntless KBG.

I had assumed they just blended whatever they happened to have a lot of at the time but I received mine about the same time you received yours.


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## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

Here's mine which is a little different than both of yours...


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

How does United Seed compare to Pete's GCI TTTF seed mix? Does anyone have any input on both?

Edit: Sorry to open an older post. I didn't notice the date of the original post until now.


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## Lawndad (May 23, 2017)

Lawndad said:


> How does United Seed compare to Pete's GCI TTTF seed mix? Does anyone have any input on both?


Edit: Sorry to open an older post. I didn't notice the date of the original post until now.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

dmvernon said:


> SpiveyJr said:
> 
> 
> > I had a 25 lb bag of the same seed arrive on Monday which I plan on using for an overseed and bare patch fill. I'm not too crazy about the KBG in this blend as it's not my preferred choice, but I do like the TTTF mix and it will be interesting to see how this seed does/looks in already established lawns. Good luck to you!
> ...


In completely bare spots larger than few inches it will emerge. Then will spread whenever the opportunity shows off (die-off of TTTF). The cultivar you have is a low grow (dwarf habits) and I don't think it will be blending well with the tall posture of the fescue. But because it is at a so low rate (still have to keep in mind KBG seeds are much smaller than all the rest) I don't think you will notice it simply walking around.
M


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

There is nothing wrong with using scotts seed, don't let snobby lawn nuts tell you otherwise. Just make sure you put down some Scotts Starter Fertilizer with Weed Preventer when you seed (NOT the weed & weed!!! That will keep your seed from germinating) It is a different product and comes in a light blue bag.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

john5246 said:


> There is nothing wrong with using scotts seed, don't let snobby lawn nuts tell you otherwise. Just make sure you put down some Scotts Starter Fertilizer with Weed Preventer when you seed (NOT the weed & weed!!! That will keep your seed from germinating) It is a different product and comes in a light blue bag.


The active ingredient in Scott's starter fert is Mesotrione. The biggest issue with any grass seed (not just Scott's is buying seed with other crop. Other crop is grassy weeds that are usually difficult to get rid of. Think of poa triv. That being said I have used Scott's in the past it comes up good and looks good but the longer you enjoy this hobby the more anal you get and having lime green spots in the middle of your beautiful lawn is unacceptable lol.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

JDgreen18 said:


> The active ingredient in Scott's starter fert is Mesotrione. The biggest issue with any grass seed (not just Scott's is buying seed with other crop. Other crop is grassy weeds that are usually difficult to get rid of. Think of poa triv. That being said I have used Scott's in the past it comes up good and looks good but the longer you enjoy this hobby the more anal you get and having lime green spots in the middle of your beautiful lawn is unacceptable lol.


And as you and I have talked about in person (let's mention it again here for the benefit of others), even with 0/0 weed and other crop seed, there is no guarantee it's truly free of stuff. Case in point, this Spring I planted a good amount of 0/0 TTPR seed. Guess what came up along with it...annual ryegrass, even with that label. I also have Poa Triv issues in areas where I've only used 0/0 and sod quality seed.

As far as Scotts and some others, I hear they set their label to 0.01 weed seed to "CYA" (cover themselves just in case for liability). You can tell this is the case because their EZ seed (which is like 10% actual seed) has the same 0.01% listed on it as their coated seed (which is 50% seed), which is also the same as their classic (100%) seed's weed percentage.

For overseeding an existing non-premium northern mix lawn with dead spots (like my low input area), I have no issue with Scotts or Jonathan Green seed. But I avoid stuff with higher other crop percentages. I also avoid common type cultivars, like KY-31 TF, Boreal CRF, and Abbey KBG.


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