# 1st Time Tenacity User - Do's and Dont's



## jaygrizzle

I am planning to use Tenancity at seed down when I overseed and re-seed a few areas. I'll be using TTTF seed and that is what my lawn currently is. I have read a bunch of threads on here on Tenacity and now I am a bit nervous about applying it. The plan is to use the liquid version in a tank sprayer.

Does anyone have any best practices/tips/do's and don'ts when using Tenacity?


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## chrismar

Read the label, multiple times.
Make sure you get the dosing right.
Get familiar with your sprayer. Practice with water, if needed.
Have a beverage of choice on hand for afterwards.


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## MarkAguglia

Use blue marking dye.

Last time I used Tenacity I had some white stripes all over the lawn from missing rows.


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## jaygrizzle

chrismar said:


> Read the label, multiple times.
> Make sure you get the dosing right.
> Get familiar with your sprayer. Practice with water, if needed.
> Have a beverage of choice on hand for afterwards.


So my sprayer is just the real cheap sprayer 1 gallon sprayer from Walmart. My yard is very small so it works okay for when I've sprayed post-emergents in the past. Do you know if it is best to use on the setting that it sprays out more of a mist or should I use the setting that sprays more of concentrated straight shot flow?


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## jaygrizzle

I also have a question about the application:

I am about to do some spot spraying of weeds today or tomorrow, but it will be at least 6 weeks or so until I would be applying the Tenacity at seed down. So by the time I apply it, there will certainly be some weeds in the yard that I would like the Tenacity to take care of. But I would like to get the pre-emergent benefits of it as well.

So when I am applying it with the intent of getting both the pre and post emergent effects, should I spray with or without a surfactant? It recommends to use some on the label when using as a post-m but I'd also like get the pre-m properties of the product as well.


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## jaygrizzle

MarkAguglia said:


> Use blue marking dye.
> 
> Last time I used Tenacity I had some white stripes all over the lawn from missing rows.


I am wanting to use the blue marking dye, but I am afraid I am going to make a huge mess with it. Haha


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## jessehurlburt

You would want the mist (fan tip) for foliar post-m apps with a NIS. For using it as a pre-m, I've heard it recommended to use a tip that sprays bigger droplets since the goal is to get it down into the soil. I would hit the weeds you have now, and any that are left again in 10 days. You need to water in Tenacity when using as a pre-m, so I would focus on the weeds you have now, then when seeding this fall, use a tip that makes bigger droplets and water it in.


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## jessehurlburt

jaygrizzle said:


> MarkAguglia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Use blue marking dye.
> 
> Last time I used Tenacity I had some white stripes all over the lawn from missing rows.
> 
> 
> 
> I am wanting to use the blue marking dye, but I am afraid I am going to make a huge mess with it. Haha
Click to expand...

I used marking dye for the first time this week. It does color the grass, but it went away within a day or two. I'd highly recommend using it. It makes it a lot easier.


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## pennstater2005

Don't wear sandals.


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## jessehurlburt

pennstater2005 said:


> Don't wear sandals.


 :lol:


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## Suburban Jungle Life

Smurf feet?


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## Harts

pennstater2005 said:


> Don't wear sandals.


Is this good practice??


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## gm560

It's a different consistency then other herbicides. Much thicker like paint, so be prepared to mix it with something more than just shaking the sprayer. Other people might have techniques they use, but I have one of these for my power drill:

https://www.amazon.com/Allway-10031-gallon-Helix-Paint/dp/B000I1VHG2


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## jaygrizzle

gm560 said:


> It's a different consistency then other herbicides. Much thicker like paint, so be prepared to mix it with something more than just shaking the sprayer. Other people might have techniques they use, but I have one of these for my power drill:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Allway-10031-gallon-Helix-Paint/dp/B000I1VHG2


I only have roughly 2k sq feet of lawn and my tank sprayer is only a gallon so I believe based on their recommended application rate that I will only used 0.5tsp of Tenacity per gallon. With that little of the product how would you go about mixing it?

For the blue dye, I guess I am just a little nervous about getting it on my driveway, landscaping and white fence. I think I may just plan to hit all of the perimeter spots (maybe a foot of of them) without the dye and then do the main middle sections with the dye. Then I'll just have to worry about getting it on myself...


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## jessehurlburt

jaygrizzle said:


> I only have roughly 2k sq feet of lawn and my tank sprayer is only a gallon so I believe based on their recommended application rate that I will only used 0.5tsp of Tenacity per gallon. With that little of the product how would you go about mixing it?


A 1/2 tsp measuring spoon (that you will never use again for food) and a paint stirrer would work fine


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## doanster

do not freak out if your lawn starts looking like a spotted leopard - did a blanket spray as a pre-emergent in the spring.
a week later my lawn started to get white patches that grew and grew - i thought for sure i killed the lawn - but i waited - and as i had been told by others - after a few cuts the white spots grew out and the grass was green and completely weed free - 4 months later - still no weeds to be seen. good stuff!


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## g-man

@jaygrizzle For an overseed, tenacity is not that important. For bare areas it helps.

If you apply as a post (with nis) with a blanket application, it will treat your weeds and the bare areas will also get tenacity into the soil.

Practice, practice and practice. Use the die but use a only a small amount with your water practice runs. The die helps to 
see overlap or gaps. Use a syringe to measure the tenacity. It will be more accurate that way. Add to tank, add some water and mix, then add the rest of the water.


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## jaygrizzle

I'm torn now. With me being new to the game I'm honestly leaning towards just using the Scotts starter fertilizer with the mesotrione added. I've seen it recommended on here before and seems to have pretty good reviews online. Anyone have any experience with it?

At this point with this fall being my first real attempt at improving the lawn with the proper education as opposed to winging it, my goal is to not screw things up. And it seems the tenacity in the Scotts product would be harder to mess up rather than trying to mix in my sprayer and using dye for the first time.

g-man, I believe that you recommended tenacity at seed down as well as 30 days after. If I went the non liquid route, I would probably only use half the bag or less at seed down. Would it be okay to put down the other half of the bag 30 days later? Or would putting the starter fertilizer on the newly germinated/growing seeds be detrimental? I would then put prodiamine or dimension down 60 days after seed down.


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## g-man

Tenacity is the brand name for mesotrione. The scott product is good, but it the long run, it is way more expensive. It is granular so that makes it easier to use. Once you get to practice and use liquid applications, it opens a lot of different products to use and a lower cost (pennies vs $20 in some cases). If you have the sprayer, just practice with water and some dye until you dont ended with water in the tank (walked too fast), run out of water (walked too slow) or have areas without dye.

For a reno (no grass in the ground), the recommendation is tenacity at seed down and then at 30 days. It really helps from weeds growing in the bare soil.
For an overseed, I dont see the need for tenacity at all. It wont hurt to use it at seed down or 30 days later.

It is still possible to screw up with the granular, but not so much. You need to follow the label. A bag might cover 5ksqft, but you only have 2ksqft. Therefore half a bag should be too much. Ideally you want to weight the amount you need (lb/ksqft as listed in the label). Then you want to apply that qty evenly thru the 2ksqft. If it is not even, then you will end up with double rate in some areas. Dont trust the spreader settings in the bag since it is too general and easy to screw up, weight it with a bathroom scale and a bucket.

Scott starter with meso is designed to be used for new seeds. Follow their label recommendations and you will be fine.


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## 440mag

jessehurlburt said:


> I used marking dye for the first time this week. It does color the grass, but it went away within a day or two. I'd highly recommend using it. It makes it a lot easier.


AND, marking dye is $oooooooooooooooo much cheaper than the chemicals many (most?) of us are using!

(DEFINITELY cheaper than Tenacity ... like two separate universes cheaper!)

Best o' Success! :thumbup:


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## social port

jaygrizzle said:


> Anyone have any experience with it?


Yes, and I do recommend the Scott's starter with mesotrione. Two thumbs up, for sure. With the exception of wild garlic, it kept my lawn weed-free for months.



jaygrizzle said:


> And it seems the tenacity in the Scotts product would be harder to mess up rather than trying to mix in my sprayer and using dye for the first time.


Tenacity is a strong herbicide. And it is easy to make mistakes with a sprayer when you are starting out; for those reasons, I'd be a little nervous. However, you have been given excellent guidance on how to use tenacity in liquid form. Using the liquid is definitely an option for you--and you have to learn how to effectively use a sprayer at some point.
That being said, I agree with your impression that granular is more forgiving than liquid. I think the granular option is very sensible for those who don't have a lot of experience.


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## Rule11

This is a great topic, I was nervous as well. But I, like I have read in previous posts, practiced with water a bunch. Learned what my sprayer put out for how fast of slow I walked. Took good notes and started with Tenacity to try and post m to tame down some Poa Spots I have in my PRG. Then 10 days ago I was finished with my back yard Reno, leveled, graded, then sand top layer. Dropped my VIP 3 PRG, rolled, and sprayed Tenacity, then dropped the peat moss. I have seen 1 weed, and 3 locations of Poa and all are growing white after the first 5 days. Now they are no longer even visible and did a manual reel cut yesterday for the first cut. It's all working GREAT! I also tried the the blue dye the first time and won't do it again. I could really even see it. I just mow first and drop some lines then walk right up each line. My fan tip is real close to a 24" wise spray. I am real new to mixing as well. But that is the only way I am going to do it from this season forward. PGR, Humic, Iron, Liquid Fertilizer, Herbicide, Insecticides, ect. Way cheaper. Learned all this stuff through this awesome publication. So much that I can't wait to get my TLF swag from @Ware


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## LIgrass

The most important thing is getting the dosage right; always remembering that the directions are usually shown in ounces/acre, not ounces/K. Here's a very handy Tenacity dosage calculator created by HLG....

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yi7UJrmwujrPK0B9LYjgG24RbJE0C9syOIBO6RtQEUo/edit?usp=sharing


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## Suburban Jungle Life

For all these small rates, I prefer to convert to ml. I have a 10 ml graduated cylinder and a tiny funnel. Amazon sells the graduated cylinders for cheap and they're glass so chemicals won't stain them.

For ease of calculation, I use this spreadsheet. Just put in the top (yellow highlighted) how many sq ft in 1000 increments. So, if you have a 2600 sq ft lawn, put 2.6. It'll populate the rest. Cost per app, how much to use, oz and alternative in ml or grams, any required surfactant, etc. I don't have to keep reading the label for dosages anymore.

Click on it if you want to download it. You can edit and add or delete any products you use.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xC8lyi-5XUlHdeaTM2hYV2gHPEOOPeyV/view?usp=sharing


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## jaygrizzle

Thanks all for the helpful information. I think I have decided to go with the Scotts starter plus Tenacity for my first go around. It's only about $15 more than the regular Scotts starter that I was going to use. I see why people say the granular version is more expensive than the liquid version but for pretty much $15 extra I don't see it as a big deal with someone with a small lawn. I would only end up using an ounce or two of the liquid version over a 3-5 year period before I got to the end of the shelf life based on their recommended application.

So to confirm, there would be no issue with putting down a second application of the Scott's starter fertilizer plus Tenacity 30 days after seed down, correct?

I know some have indicated that Tenacity isn't a must when overseeding, but I'd like to do it as I will most likely still have some weeds in the yard that I would like to kill as I did not put down a pre-m in the spring. I am going to try and get a round of quinclorac soon if I can find anytime with temps below 90, but I know there will still be weeds to kill in mid August/Early September when I start overseeding/re-seeding bare spots.


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## steensn

I need to do a second round of fungicide (Propiconazole) and first full round of Tenacity. Any reason I cannot do both at the same time? A cocktail party if you will...


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## social port

jaygrizzle said:


> So to confirm, there would be no issue with putting down a second application of the Scott's starter fertilizer plus Tenacity 30 days after seed down, correct?


30 days should be fine; but always double-check the label. Seems like I remember waiting 5 weeks between applications...but follow the label and you will be fine in terms of tenacity.

The only concern with two apps of starter fertilizer is that you may not need the extra potassium and phosphorous. I can't remember if you have had a soil test or not.

Once upon a time I swear that I saw granular mesotrione on its own (not cut with fert), but I haven't been able to find it since


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## Buddy

I've never used tenacity, so looking for some insight as I'm just learning about this. When putting down new seed, do you put it down once you've spread all your seed? Do you wait a few days or is it all at the same time? Thanks for the help


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## social port

Buddy said:


> I've never used tenacity, so looking for some insight as I'm just learning about this. When putting down new seed, do you put it down once you've spread all your seed? Do you wait a few days or is it all at the same time? Thanks for the help


I don't know what the hard limits are for application timing and seeding, but standard practice is to apply tenacity on the same day of seeding. I do know that you do not want to apply tenacity once you have some baby grass on its way up. The grass will need several weeks of growth before the second application (hence the 30 day interval between apps).


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## Buddy

social port said:


> Buddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never used tenacity, so looking for some insight as I'm just learning about this. When putting down new seed, do you put it down once you've spread all your seed? Do you wait a few days or is it all at the same time? Thanks for the help
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what the hard limits are for application timing and seeding, but standard practice is to apply tenacity on the same day of seeding. I do know that you do not want to apply tenacity once you have some baby grass on its way up. The grass will need several weeks of growth before the second application (hence the 30 day interval between apps).
Click to expand...

So is it sprayed on soil then seed goes down. Or seed goes down then sprayed?


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## g-man

I've sprayed first and seed later but I think it doesn't matter. The seed will touch the soil which has the tenacity.


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## social port

And I've seeded first and applied granules later. No problem.


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## Rule11

This was seeded then immediately sprayed with Tenacity minutes after the peat moss on top aid all 2 weeks ago. I have 1 weed. Worked really well. I made a note when I noticed the first sight of germination. Then 4 weeks after that date I will do round 2.


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## Prospect

Can I use dimension 3 weeks after a second application of Tenacity?
Trying to kill poa annua 
7/17/20 first app of tenacity As post emergent
3 weeks later 8/7/20 2nd app of tenacity as post emergent
3 and a half weeks later 9/1/20 first app of dimension as pre emergent 
6 weeks later 2nd app of dimension as pre emergent 
Is this plan ok? Or am I going to fry my Perennial Rye


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## Justin9314

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> For all these small rates, I prefer to convert to ml. I have a 10 ml graduated cylinder and a tiny funnel. Amazon sells the graduated cylinders for cheap and they're glass so chemicals won't stain them.
> 
> For ease of calculation, I use this spreadsheet. Just put in the top (yellow highlighted) how many sq ft in 1000 increments. So, if you have a 2600 sq ft lawn, put 2.6. It'll populate the rest. Cost per app, how much to use, oz and alternative in ml or grams, any required surfactant, etc. I don't have to keep reading the label for dosages anymore.
> 
> Click on it if you want to download it. You can edit and add or delete any products you use.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xC8lyi-5XUlHdeaTM2hYV2gHPEOOPeyV/view?usp=sharing


Unfortunately, it won't allow one to download this file. It says the file is in the owner's trash. Looks pretty awesome, however, so if you get that link fixed could you repost it? I could find a lot of value in it!


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## Jacks_Designs

Justin9314 said:


> Suburban Jungle Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> For all these small rates, I prefer to convert to ml. I have a 10 ml graduated cylinder and a tiny funnel. Amazon sells the graduated cylinders for cheap and they're glass so chemicals won't stain them.
> 
> For ease of calculation, I use this spreadsheet. Just put in the top (yellow highlighted) how many sq ft in 1000 increments. So, if you have a 2600 sq ft lawn, put 2.6. It'll populate the rest. Cost per app, how much to use, oz and alternative in ml or grams, any required surfactant, etc. I don't have to keep reading the label for dosages anymore.
> 
> Click on it if you want to download it. You can edit and add or delete any products you use.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xC8lyi-5XUlHdeaTM2hYV2gHPEOOPeyV/view?usp=sharing
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, it won't allow one to download this file. It says the file is in the owner's trash. Looks pretty awesome, however, so if you get that link fixed could you repost it? I could find a lot of value in it!
Click to expand...

I have this same issue. Would really like to download this file.


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## Bigcatdaddy

My 1st post

I live in N Minn. Acidic, very sandy soil, right in middle of White Pine Forrest. I haven't given a thought to lawn care for 20 yrs. My lawn looked like a dandelion, plantain, clover patch. You would have been hard pressed to find the grass in my yard.

I decided to start taking care of my lawn. I mixed a speedball of Speedzone/Tenacity 6 weeks ago. I used my batt powered backpack to spray 4 gall/2000 sq ft grass. My total area is 16K lawn. Yup, that's 8 backpacks full.

Pros:
I have had a 90% die off of weeds in 1st application. I have never in my 20 yrs here, seen my lawn weed free like this. Incredibly easy to mix and spray with a marking dye. I used green. Bang for $$ spent was impressive. Yes, I saw the bleaching-it grew out in 2 weeks. I have enough concentrate left for several more years.

Cons:
Often requires a second app as I have read. Mine did too. But there were so few weeds, that I mixed only 2 gall to walk around and spot spray residuals at 6 weeks-no overspray needed.
-I wore tennis shoes. My toenails are still green from the marking dye near 8 weeks later. I'd suggest some cheap rubber muck-type boots. Would wear rubber gloves too-my hands returned to no green color after 5 days of scrubbing.

But
-I am looking at a weed free lawn, 1st time in 20 yrs. Its gorgeous. I can sit on my deck and stare at it all day!

Also, 16K of lawn via backpack? Nope, not again. I now own a pull behind sprayer rig for my rider.


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## Raap

I have 300 square meters of lawn and want to use tenacity against poa annua and other weeds. 
I find it hard to understand how much tenacity to use and how much water to use. 
With tenacity came an injection thing with measurements in teaspoons. So how many teaspoons for 300 square meters and how much water? Thanks


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## Virginiagal

The spot treatment directions on the Tenacity label are 1 gallon of water for every 1000 sq ft. You have 300 sq meters which translates to 3229 sq ft. You can do 4 gallons of water. The spot treatment amount is 0.5 teaspoon of Tenacity and 1.5 teaspoons of non ionic surfactant per gallon of water over 1000 sq ft. That's 1.61 teaspoons (0.5 x 3.229)in 4 gallons of water so 0.4 teaspoons per gallon. If you use liters, a gallon is around 15 liters. I assume the syringe has teaspoons.

If you go by the chart in the replies above, you'll get more nuanced rates. If you are treating poa annua with repeated doses at a low rate, say at the 2 oz per acre rate, you use less Tenacity. For 3250 sq ft it's 0.90 teaspoons. Divided into 4 gallons of water, that's 0.225 teaspoons per gallon. Apply each gallon evenly over 1/4 of your yard if you're applying to the whole yard. For my poa annua, I did the first treatment over the whole yard. The poa and other weeds start to bleach. For subsequent treatments, I'm spot spraying just the bleached poa, so I'm using just one gallon. It's mixed at the lower rate.


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## Raap

Virginiagal said:


> The spot treatment directions on the Tenacity label are 1 gallon of water for every 1000 sq ft. You have 300 sq meters which translates to 3229 sq ft. You can do 4 gallons of water. The spot treatment amount is 0.5 teaspoon of Tenacity and 1.5 teaspoons of non ionic surfactant per gallon of water over 1000 sq ft. That's 1.61 teaspoons (0.5 x 3.229)in 4 gallons of water so 0.4 teaspoons per gallon. If you use liters, a gallon is around 15 liters. I assume the syringe has teaspoons.
> 
> If you go by the chart in the replies above, you'll get more nuanced rates. If you are treating poa annua with repeated doses at a low rate, say at the 2 oz per acre rate, you use less Tenacity. For 3250 sq ft it's 0.90 teaspoons. Divided into 4 gallons of water, that's 0.225 teaspoons per gallon. Apply each gallon evenly over 1/4 of your yard if you're applying to the whole yard. For my poa annua, I did the first treatment over the whole yard. The poa and other weeds start to bleach. For subsequent treatments, I'm spot spraying just the bleached poa, so I'm using just one gallon. It's mixed at the lower rate.


Thanks, but 1 gallon is just below 4 liters, right? You write 1 gallon is 15 liters.

So if I get it right: for my 300 square meters I use 0.9 teaspoon with 15 liters of water. And I do this every second week in total 3 or 4 times?

THANKS


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## Virginiagal

Yes, 0.9 teaspoon in 15 liters of water over 300 sq meters. What size is your sprayer? There can be more than 15 liters of water but it should be at least that much. What size is your sprayer? If it's 4 liters, that's fine. Put 0.225 teaspoon in a 4 liter sprayer and do 75 sq meters. Repeat for each 75 sq meter section. If you haven't done this before, practice with plain water first to see if you can cover the area evenly.

I divide my 2000 sq ft lawn into two sections and do one gallon per 1000 sq ft for the first spraying. Then one week later I do another spraying, spraying just the poa annua (and some other weeds ). Then I do another spot spraying one week later. I have one more week to go, for 4 in total. For these subsequent sprayings, one gallon is enough.


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## vancwa

Before spraying anything - _know the square footage of the application area_. Since the OP profile says 3000 sq-ft, you need to match the application rate to correspond to your area of turf. As others mention, calibrate your sprayer and walking speed. You wouldn't want to mix up 3000 ft worth of Tenacity and then accidentally use it all up before finishing the 1200 ft front lawn. If first timer, I found it easier to under-apply a bit and if there is some left over, spread the remainder evenly.


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