# Ethofumesate now or later



## VoG (Sep 22, 2020)

I'm in central jersey and wondering how long I can wait to ethofumesate poa.. Can I wait until after Thanksgiving? As long as we don't get freezing temps I'm assuming I can spray anytime? Just trying to shorten my time I have to look at dead patches.


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## themishmosh (Jul 3, 2020)

You need to apply at least twice before winter hits. Given your location, I'd spray now and then after thanksgiving. Honestly, I think Tenacity works better on poa annua. Ethofumesate is so variable, working best with cold winters and not snow covered.


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## VoG (Sep 22, 2020)

Well I have some Tenacity as well. Would it hurt to use both at the same time?


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

Product Label: https://www.pestrong.com/attachment.php?id_attachment=1438

_General Recommendations
• *For fall control of annual bluegrass, begin applications of POACONSTRICTOR during the period of maximum weed germination and end as close to the first killing freeze as possible.*
• Springapplicationsshouldbemadeduringtheperiodofmaximumweedgermination.Consultyourweedsciencespecialistoruniversityextension service for the recommended application timing in your area. Spring applications are most effective following fall applications.

*SEE CHART ON PAGE 4 OF LABEL FOR USE RATES AND TIMINGS (AND READ TEXT BELOW THE CHART FOR SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS) FOR EACH TYPE OF GRASS*._: https://www.pestrong.com/attachment.php?id_attachment=1438


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

VoG said:


> I'm in central jersey and wondering how long I can wait to ethofumesate poa.. Can I wait until after Thanksgiving? As long as we don't get freezing temps I'm assuming I can spray anytime? Just trying to shorten my time I have to look at dead patches.


My take is you want to do a minimum of two and ideally three apps, each 21-28 days apart, with the last app. juuuuust ahead of the first freeze. If you're a gambler and do a spray tomorrow you miiiiiiight get 2 sprays in (but 3, not so sure about three .... :|

How mature is the turf we're taking about? If it is new grass I'd err on the side of caution and just do Etho. Tenacity is gonna give you white on top of dead and it is possible (likley) grass won't recover in cold, cold conditions and as a result you're gonna be looking at those patches awhile ....

*THING OF IT IS, APP RATES AND TIMING OF ETHOFUMESATE ARE DIFFERENT FOR BLUEGRASS / RYE THEN THEY ARE FOR TTTF - I see you have both so, that makes things a tad more complex (real emphasis on reading and adheringbto product labels carefully!*


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## VoG (Sep 22, 2020)

I did overseed so that's how I'm in this poa pridiciment in the first place. The majority is mature though. I guess I'm going to bite the bullet and hit it this weekend. Hopefully nothing starts dying until after Halloween


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

Oh, okay, relatively mature blades. Well, I don't know that the labels urging the last app. Just ahead of First killing freeze is to protect grass from injury as much as it has to do with maintaining product effectiveness. I'd go for it but, not sure I'd throw Tenacity into the mix ...

Suburban Jungle Life shared his recipe for overcoming POA - *IN TTTF ONLY *- and I refer to it so much, well, let's just say I try and keep it at my fingertips. Be back in a second with it and maybe he and any others can share whether any of the recommends have changed since he originally helped me with it.

ETA; I'm back and found it!

*CAUTION: the following regimen is for TTTF ONLY (NOT bluegrass or rye; for bluegrass or rye CHECK PRODUCT KABEL(s) CAREFULLY!*

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7168&p=135727#p135727

*From TLF member Suburban Jungle Life *Weds MAR 20, 2019:

I apply meso (Tenacity) at 0.184floz/M 
NOTE: (x 2 = 0.368floz OR TRANSLATES INTO 10.883 mil / 2M sf PER 4 Gal Sprayer Tank 
and etho (Poa Constrictor) 1.5floz/M the day of seeding. 
I seed once summer heat breaks but not long after. If you seed late, poa will have germinated already. 
Etho is safe 2 weeks post germination so I reapply 4 weeks after seeding. 
Meso is safe 4 weeks after germinaton so I apply that 6 weeks after seeding. 
I usually don't have a long fall so I don't bother with Prodiamine but if you do, that is 2 months post germination. 
I do use Prodiamine in the spring though.

Seeding, meso, etho.
4 weeks post seeding, etho
6 weeks post seeding, meso
8 weeks post seeding, Prodiamine if needed.
Spring, Prodiamine before poa germinates.



Suburban Jungle Life said:


> ...I should note, ..... this timing of the products I posted is *only for fescue*. Rye and bluegrass have different requirements.


If you're seeding in the Fall, best results will be had in CT if you Aerate/Overseed or Slice Seed during the last week of August or the first week of September. This will give you 8 weeks of excellent growing weather with NO Crabgrass competition and very minimal weed competition. Remember, you'll need 10-30 days for seed germination (depending upon which seed you select) and an additional 21-30 days to grow those blades to be thick and healthy. If seeding during this time, Substitute a Starter Fertilizer (18-24-12) on the August 19th date and reapply it at 3 week intervals until the lawn is full and thick. Once you've reached that point, you can apply a Winterizer (21-3-21) to finish off your season.


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## Babaganoosh (Apr 21, 2019)

Ethofumesate 2 weeks after germination eh? Looks like I gotta spray


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## VoG (Sep 22, 2020)

Hey 440, Thanks for posting that, some great info there. &#128077;


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

Oh my word - ALL CREDIT goes to SuburbanJungle Life - WITH THE FOLLOWING CAVEAT:



Suburban Jungle Life said:


> ...I should note, ..... this timing of the products I posted is *only for fescue*. Rye and bluegrass have different requirements.


- yet another TLF "advisor-level" member whom I Literally don't know where I'd be without!!!!

Best o' Success with your end of season app.s!!!


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## Jersey_diy (Sep 5, 2020)

440mag said:


> Seeding, meso, etho.
> 4 weeks post seeding, etho
> 6 weeks post seeding, meso
> 8 weeks post seeding, Prodiamine if needed.
> Spring, Prodiamine before poa germinates.


Are you sure that etho is good 4 weeks after seeding? is that for KBG as well?


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## AndyS (Jun 13, 2020)

Not to hijack the thread, but what are the benefits of killing weed such as poa or crabgrass just prior to Winter? Don't they naturally die anyway?


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

@VoG , @Jersey_diy is RIGHT - I WAS WRONG TO POST SJL's "Death to POA" regimen for bluegrass - SML intended that regimen only for fescue - NOT Bluegrass (or Rye) !!!!

Something about Jersey_diy 's post triggered my memory; and, I just went back to that thread and found this post,mfurhter downnthread, by SJL:



Suburban Jungle Life said:


> ...I should note, Pemt13 has fescue and this timing of the products I posted is only for fescue. Rye and bluegrass have different requirements.


My apologies and I am going to go upthread and correct my error ("the road to Hades is paved with good intention (ps - they say the road to Heaven is as well but ... :-/


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

AndyS said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but what are the benefits of killing weed such as poa or crabgrass just prior to Winter? Don't they naturally die anyway?


Hi, Andy. I have only been referring to poa which I understand to be a cool weather grass itself and, only speaking for me in my locale, it typically only gets (doesn't "stay") cold enough in my yard to cause poa to flourish not die. And I do mean flourish to the point of pushing out and overcoming the TTTF - both established but especially the new stuff I've seeded. :x


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## AndyS (Jun 13, 2020)

440mag said:


> AndyS said:
> 
> 
> > Not to hijack the thread, but what are the benefits of killing weed such as poa or crabgrass just prior to Winter? Don't they naturally die anyway?
> ...


Great info @440mag - that's what I suspected. Some weeds are growing faster in my yard than the grass now is so that makes sense to me to nip it in the bud before it steals more ground. Thanks!


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## ScottW (Sep 16, 2019)

AndyS said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but what are the benefits of killing weed such as poa or crabgrass just prior to Winter? Don't they naturally die anyway?


Crabgrass and Poa annua can almost be thought of as complete opposites.
Crabgrass germinates in spring after soil temps warm up, survives summer heat while spewing off a bunch of seeds, and dies with freezing winter weather.
Poa annua germinates in fall as soil temps drop back down to 70-ish, survives the winter just fine, seeds off a crapload in spring, then [usually] dies in the summer heat.


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## AndyS (Jun 13, 2020)

ScottW said:


> AndyS said:
> 
> 
> > Not to hijack the thread, but what are the benefits of killing weed such as poa or crabgrass just prior to Winter? Don't they naturally die anyway?
> ...


Thanks @ScottW - that's a very succinct description!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

^+1 ScottW

The only thing to add, Poa annua will survive the summer heat if you maintain your yard irrigated, green and growing thru the summer (like most of us do).

PreM will only prevent the new seeds from becoming a mature plan and it is not a 100% prevention (poa a does build resistance to prem and glyphosate). Pulling the mature poa a plants is very effective.


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