# st augustine stolons not rooted in patches



## sabanist (Mar 28, 2019)

So i've been trying to get my st aug back in healthy condition since last fall. Now that spring is here i can see where some of the areas are not greening up at all. The circled areas below are brown and some dead grass mixed with some green grass blades (although few). Problem i see is that if i probe the turf with my finger i can feel stolons. If you grab a patch of it with your hand and shake, like 2 sf moves around. like it isnt firmly planted. If i wanted to, I could easily rip a huge chunk right up. This as opposed to when i grab a chunk of the green grass and tug, it is firm and doesn't move anything.

Anyone know whats going on there? Should i topdress to give the stolons something to grab? what material is the best for solving this problem?

Pics below


----------



## LawnDrummer (Jan 16, 2019)

I had this same thing happen to my Centipede. I would tug at a 'bad' spot and the stolon would very easily pull out of the ground. I could tell it was spreading slowly so I ended up using a fungicide and grub/insect killer to stop the spread. It eventually recovered.


----------



## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@sabanist are the loose areas putting on any roots, or are the black/slimy? St Augustine is very susceptible to fungus, and this sounds like it might be take all patch.


----------



## sabanist (Mar 28, 2019)

Its not black or slimy. There was very little rooting though. Just like they were growing on top of the ground and no roots anchoring them.

The soil underneath looks good, moist but not wet. I watered 2 days ago and there hasn't been any rain


----------



## sabanist (Mar 28, 2019)

I did have a fungus problem in the fall and have been treating with fungicide over the winter. Now i'm on a preventative regiment. It was pretty bad but I don't think its present right now.


----------



## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

sabanist said:


> I did have a fungus problem in the fall and have been treating with fungicide over the winter. Now i'm on a preventative regiment. It was pretty bad but I don't think its present right now.


When you get on a preventative program you pretty much stay on it as long as the temps over 85 during the day and over 65 at night. It will come back of not


----------



## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

sabanist said:


> I did have a fungus problem in the fall and have been treating with fungicide over the winter. Now i'm on a preventative regiment. It was pretty bad but I don't think its present right now.


My other thought would be to question if your pre-emergent application might be keeping the stolons from tacking down.


----------



## sabanist (Mar 28, 2019)

Yea I did not think of the prodiamine application. However, all winter, these same areas have been brown while the areas surrounding them were green. Im sure the prodiamine didn't help it though.


----------



## bmw (Aug 29, 2018)

@sabanist If I were you I would dig in the soil to see if any grubs are present. It seems like you have done a thorough job with the fungicides.


----------



## bmw (Aug 29, 2018)

@LawnDrummer not to sidestep this thread, but what is your plan of attack this year with your Centipede? I'm going to let mine naturally wake up and not fertilize until Mem Day. Also holding off herbicides as long as possible.


----------



## grassland (Mar 7, 2019)

If you are able to grab the grass and a large patch of it moves, it might actually be a patch of signal grass, which looks alot like centipede when it is mowed at the same height as the rest of your turf. Not only does large patches of it move when you grab it, it is also tightly packed and feels very spongy (when it is green). Just a thought


----------



## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

Spammage said:


> My other thought would be to question if your pre-emergent application might be keeping the stolons from tacking down.


THIS^!!! I made the mistake last year of using Prodiamine (low dose) during my first year of fill-in. Had the same problem, as well as very slow spread.

The prodiamine caused clubbed roots...take a look at the roots and if they are short with stubby ends it's the prodiamine's fault. If so, rake up the area to disturb the barrier, and throw down some sand or whatever you guys use up there. Here, if you have some sort of "barren patch", covering it with a thin layer of sand gets the runners tacking.


----------



## Carrollr78 (Jun 12, 2019)

If I may, your lawn looks dry.

The Green spot in the middle of the First Picture looks like you have an Irrigation Head that's not popping up(just steadily watering one tiny area under the grass). Check your irrgation first to ensure you have absolutely perfect irrigation coverage.

There are only 2 things that would make your St Aug lawn look dry:

-Not receiving enough water.

-Grubs

Also could be Grubs are eating your root system in your lawn, not allowing water to be absorbed through the roots(effectively making it look dry) and giving your lawn the feel of easily pulling it from the ground(no roots attached keeping it attached to the ground). Buy Dylox G, and a hand spreader. 3 lbs per thousand square feet. Water in within 12 hours. Apply again in approximately 3 to 4 weeks. Then a strong Phosphorous fertilizer(and plenty of watering) to help with the root regrowth. Phosphorous is greatly restricted in the state of Florida to commercial applicators, but not to Home Owners. If you can get your hands on 14-14-14, or 8-10-10, you should be golden.

If you want to double check if you in fact have grubs, pull up a descent size hunk of grass, grab a small garden shovel, and pull up a shovel full of dirt, throw it on the driveway, and you should have grubs(or dry soil). Just google White Grubs and it should present you with a good enough idea of what you're looking for. It takes 7 to 10 grubs per 1 square foot to cause damage.

Ohh and stop mowing with a push mower, in time will eventually cause rippling(elongation of the roots, allowing for more erosion, and scalping of the lawn when you mow over the ripples, St Aug does not like to be scalped.) And giving it the feel that it doesn't have a root system(when in fact it does).

If more questions, Just Message Me.


----------



## Greyleafspot (Oct 16, 2018)

I did the pre emergent overdose my first and last time I put pre em on st aug. lawn was yellow in spots and runners wouldn't root. The roots were clubbed big time. St augustine in full sun recovered quickly but It really hurt my lawn in shady areas. I couldn't rake the lawn. It would just pull up. It took almost 2 seasons to recover.


----------



## Greyleafspot (Oct 16, 2018)

How did the lawn look at the end of the summer? It could be grub damage. Sometimes u don't notice the grub damage until spring. Definitely dig up some spots to see. It could be areas that had chinch bug, army worm, or sod web worm damage last summer /fall. It doesn't look like fungus to me. Large patch (Brown patch as we southerns call) it is usually circular. and leaf spot usually only effect the blades not the stolons. I thought I had take all patch when I overdosed with pre em. So if you don't see rotten roots you probably don't have take all patch.


----------



## sabanist (Mar 28, 2019)

Carrollr78 said:


> If I may, your lawn looks dry.
> 
> The Green spot in the middle of the First Picture looks like you have an Irrigation Head that's not popping up(just steadily watering one tiny area under the grass). Check your irrgation first to ensure you have absolutely perfect irrigation coverage.
> 
> ...


thnks. all heads pop up and I get full coverage on the lawn. I have my sprinklers set for 40 min twice a week. That's just about 1.5" per week.

I dug down in a couple areas about 5 or 6 inches and sifted through the dirt. I didnt see any insects at all. IDK if I didn't take enough dirt out or what. I've never seen a chinch bug or grub in the lawn. The soil is moist now even after watering for 3 days now.

I'll see about getting the dylox just in case I'm not seeing them


----------



## sabanist (Mar 28, 2019)

Greyleafspot said:


> How did the lawn look at the end of the summer? It could be grub damage. Sometimes u don't notice the grub damage until spring. Definitely dig up some spots to see. It could be areas that had chinch bug, army worm, or sod web worm damage last summer /fall. It doesn't look like fungus to me. Large patch (Brown patch as we southerns call) it is usually circular. and leaf spot usually only effect the blades not the stolons. I thought I had take all patch when I overdosed with pre em. So if you don't see rotten roots you probably don't have take all patch.


end of summer was pretty bad. I had an infestation of dove weed that displaced alot of the st aug on the left side of the photo. That's where alot of those dead spots come from. Then I had gray leaf spot and I think i had some brown patch due to the wet black tips of the blades of grass I would pull on. they would easily just detach. I haven't seen anything like that since I started the fungicide apps.


----------



## sabanist (Mar 28, 2019)

LawnRat said:


> Spammage said:
> 
> 
> > My other thought would be to question if your pre-emergent application might be keeping the stolons from tacking down.
> ...


this was my first instinct. the circled areas I can stick my finger in and feel the roots, no dirt. The green areas I stick my finger in and hit soil. So my reckoning is I need to give the roots something to grab on to.

So my dilemma is do I just rake up the loose areas and put down some new sod? or do i sod the dead areas then sand the loose areas?

Probabaly buying a pallet of sod anyway because i got plenty of dead spots to fill.


----------



## Greyleafspot (Oct 16, 2018)

Has it Greened up at all in the past 10
Days? If not I would sod.


----------



## sabanist (Mar 28, 2019)

Here it is today


----------



## Greyleafspot (Oct 16, 2018)

Sod if you can't take it but I think it will fill in no problem.


----------



## sabanist (Mar 28, 2019)

Greyleafspot said:


> Sod if you can't take it but I think it will fill in no problem.


You think so? I sure hope so. Got some dead spots like 6' wide. Pallet of st aug is like 120-130. Im still mulling it over.


----------



## LawnRat (Mar 22, 2019)

I agree it should fill in when fast growth starts...still a bit early in the season. If that's Palmetto St. Aug you'd be buying sod every other year if you replace it every time it turns brown. I'd sprig some Floratam St. Aug into the dead spots and allow it to take over the whole yard eventually...it's a much more hardy grass.


----------



## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

LawnRat said:


> I agree it should fill in when fast growth starts...still a bit early in the season. If that's Palmetto St. Aug you'd be buying sod every other year if you replace it every time it turns brown. I'd sprig some Floratam St. Aug into the dead spots and allow it to take over the whole yard eventually...it's a much more hardy grass.


I have a mix of SA and centipede in my front yard. I'm working on getting rid of the centipede. The SA is a mix of Raleigh and Floratam. Like @LawnRat mentioned, the Floratam does way better than the Raleigh and is slowly taking over. It might handle your trouble spots better than what you have there. I also have seen that different varieties of SA blend better than different varieties of Bermuda so don't sweat mixing it up.


----------



## yanki01 (Oct 30, 2018)

any update? i'm somewhat having the same issues with my st aug in some areas. re-sodding one area this weekend. Only a few areas are thick and lush but the rest is thinned out or gone to weeds.


----------

