# Am I wasting My Time?



## Bass_man (Sep 25, 2020)

Hi All,
So I'm kinda new to the whole lawn care thing because my daughter told me in June that's she wants to get married in the backyard. To be honest I've never given my lawn much thought. I figured anything that can survive in my yard deserves to live. :lol: . But now I'm motivated to make it look good. I have till late May 2022. So here are a couple of pictures to help explain the situation. Here is a view of the area I'm trying to get some grass to grow. This pic was taken in June








Here are a couple from August


















After seeding with The Rebels Southern Classic Shade mix and four times daily watering. Here are a couple from September



















As you can see the grass came in pretty well but my concern after doing some more research, here and elsewhere, is I'm not sure the grass is going to survive for a couple of reasons. 1, No one area gets more than 20 to 30 minutes of sun. 2, completion for water with the trees. You can also see in the last pic where I made on pass with the mower just to see what would happen. You can see the grass laid down under the tires and still hasn't stood back up.

Sorry for the long post but I really need some help/advice. Ask questions and I'll try to answer then as much as possible. BTW my location is Maryland, 35 miles WNW of Washington DC. I'm right across the Potomac from Leesburg Virginia.

One last thing, like the title said, Am I Wasting My Time trying to get grass to grow or should I make a "woodland garden" kinda like these ideas.





Thanks in advance for any and all advice


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## cityofoaks (Sep 8, 2020)

I personally would go with plan #2. There are some ornamental grasses that you could use too if you wanted it to look more like a "lawn" and less like a garden. I use Mondo Grass a lot and it loves conditions like you have there.

Most of that growth you have there will die off next Spring when it gets hot and the trees fill back in. That said it is just grass, plenty of people seed areas like this every year knowing it will die the next spring and don't worry about it, they just consider it their yearly routine.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Is your goal just the wedding? If so, the you can seed in fall and again in the spring before the wedding. It might not survive into August and it can be a muddy mess if it rains, buy a May wedding might work. See how it looks in the 2021 May. I would definitely treat with Prem to keep weeds under control. I do like the hostas look too. Maybe a combo of both.


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## NYBandit33 (Sep 6, 2020)

Nice yard. I love trees and the privacy they give but is cutting any down out of the question? I would maybe cut a few of the ones that are in the middle of the lawn, open it up for the wedding and get some more sunlight in there. The woodland garden idea looks really good too I would do that if youre against removing any trees. I have a sloped wooded area in my backyard ive been thinking about doing somthing like that. I wanted to make a pebble walkway but im concerned with trying to rake or blow leaves without making a mess...


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## Bass_man (Sep 25, 2020)

cityofoaks said:


> *I personally would go with plan #2*. There are some ornamental grasses that you could use too if you wanted it to look more like a "lawn" and less like a garden. I use Mondo Grass a lot and it loves conditions like you have there.
> 
> Most of that growth you have there will die off next Spring when it gets hot and the trees fill back in. That said it is just grass, plenty of people seed areas like this every year knowing it will die the next spring and don't worry about it, they just consider it their yearly routine.


That's kinda the direction I'm leaning to but not committed to it yet.


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## Bass_man (Sep 25, 2020)

g-man said:


> *Is your goal just the wedding?* If so, the you can seed in fall and again in the spring before the wedding. It might not survive into August and it can be a muddy mess if it rains, buy a May wedding might work. See how it looks in the 2021 May. I would definitely treat with Prem to keep weeds under control. I do like the hostas look too. Maybe a combo of both.


Initially yes, but as I get more into it I like the idea of a nice place to spend some time instead of mowing occasionally with the huge cloud of dust that kicks up. I hear you about the mud possibility


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## Bass_man (Sep 25, 2020)

NYBandit33 said:


> Nice yard. I love trees and the privacy they give but is cutting any down out of the question? I would maybe cut a few of the ones that are in the middle of the lawn, open it up for the wedding and get some more sunlight in there. The woodland garden idea looks really good too I would do that if youre against removing any trees. I have a sloped wooded area in my backyard ive been thinking about doing somthing like that. I wanted to make a pebble walkway but im concerned with trying to rake or blow leaves without making a mess...


Thanks, it is really nice to have a place to get out, especially these days. I have friends who live downtown in apartments and the last 7 months have been tough on them. I'd rather not cut down trees since the back of the house faces west and it's nice to have shade by 6PM. Yeah, figuring out what to do with the walkways is tough. Mulch? That can get pretty expensive and have to be replenished at least every couple of years. Pebbles/stone? Same thing, maybe. A local guy who came to get all the limbs and under growth I cut down, chopped up told me the local tree service will give away wood chips from the trees they're removed so they don't have to pay dump fees. Haven't confirmed that yet but sounds promising.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

The problem with the free wood chips is they are very irregular and hard to walk on. For an outside event, what is the rain plan? Tents and snap together floors are rentable. If you want a permanent installation, maybe some hardscape could be considered. Think about what plants would be blooming at the time of the wedding. Ferns are always nice in a wooded setting.


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## Bass_man (Sep 25, 2020)

Virginiagal said:


> The problem with the free wood chips is they are very irregular and hard to walk on. For an outside event, what is the rain plan? Tents and snap together floors are rentable. If you want a permanent installation, maybe some hardscape could be considered. Think about what plants would be blooming at the time of the wedding. Ferns are always nice in a wooded setting.


Thanks, that's what I was thinking about the wood chips but I'll have to go and check them out. They're local so pretty easy to do. Haven't really thought about hardscaping but that's a good idea. Definitely looking at plants that would be in bloom at that time and some for the rest of the year that have interesting foliage. Some Astilbe, Hardy Garden Orchid, Sweet Woodruff as a ground cover in a couple beds. Big ferns, Digitalis Purpurea and a bunch of other stuff. Gotta be deer resistant since my acre backs up to and 40 or 50 acre pasture.


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

cityofoaks said:


> *I personally would go with plan #2.*


I concur. You will never get grass to permanently grow under those trees with only 30 minutes of sun a day. Not to mention lots of feeding roots from those trees will suck up any water and nutrients. Check the soil surface carefully and you may see tiny hairlike growth where there is bare soil. If you see those, they are the tiny capillary feeding roots from the trees. They are at the surface most likely because of soil compaction.

I should also caution you to not pile soil close to the trees in order to make a garden. Even mulch should not be more than a 3 inch layer and should be kept at least 6 inches away from the trunks to prevent trunk rot. In other words, the root flare of the trees should always be visible. They should look like an upside down clarinet, not like a utility pole. Changing the level around trees upsets the soil microbiology and can kill the trees.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

@Deadlawn makes important points about the tree roots. You shouldn't change the soil level or bring in soil. Those tree roots need air. When my daughter had an outdoor wedding 20 years ago, I planted white impatiens in pots and they were in bloom for a July wedding (they had to be carried to the wedding site). Plants in pots won't impact the tree roots as much as planting beds would. Bulbs are a possibility, maybe late blooming spring bulbs, early summer ones.


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## Bass_man (Sep 25, 2020)

Good stuff guys. More to consider. Thanks for the info and I'm definitely leaning toward option 2. Going to some nurseries today to see if it's too late in the season to plant. I imagine it's getting close.


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## Oneacer (Sep 27, 2020)

Some real good input here for that area ... I would also lean towards the woodland garden aspect, with some type of mulched/stoned walkway and maybe a couple benches along the way ... Tree thinning might also be on my list?

Good that your starting early, to allow for any plantings to maintain a foothold.


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## Bass_man (Sep 25, 2020)

Oneacer said:


> Some real good input here for that area ... I would also lean towards the woodland garden aspect, with some type of mulched/stoned walkway and maybe a couple benches along the way ... *Tree thinning might also be on my list?*
> 
> Good that your starting early, to allow for any plantings to maintain a foothold.


Believe it or not I cut down 3 or 4 back in June and I limbed the remaining trees up to roughly 15 feet. Most of those Cedars had branches down to 2 to 4 above the ground. Not sure I want to cut more, I kinda like the shade but that presents it's own problems. This guy filled up two of those containers with the debris. You can see the logs I cut for the fire pit I'll be building in a few weeks when the weather cools off.


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## Bass_man (Sep 25, 2020)

Here I am this past spring clearing out a small section of the 1/3 of my yard outside the fence. You can see the huge vines that have overwhelmed a lot of the property before we bought 25 years ago. According to the old townies the neighborhood was built on land that used to be a tobacco farm a long long time ago


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Bass_man said:


> Here I am this past spring clearing out a small section of the 1/3 of my yard outside the fence. You can see the huge vines that have overwhelmed a lot of the property before we bought 25 years ago. According to the old townies the neighborhood was built on land that used to be a tobacco farm a long long time ago


Those look like the dreaded invasive Oriental bittersweet - YUCK!!!


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## Bass_man (Sep 25, 2020)

Deadlawn said:


> Bass_man said:
> 
> 
> > Here I am this past spring clearing out a small section of the 1/3 of my yard outside the fence. You can see the huge vines that have overwhelmed a lot of the property before we bought 25 years ago. According to the old townies the neighborhood was built on land that used to be a tobacco farm a long long time ago
> ...


That or Virginia Creeper, which i'm constantly pulling new vines off trees


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Bass_man said:


> Deadlawn said:
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> > Bass_man said:
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I don't think Virginia creeper grows stems that thick. Not to mention Virginia creeper is a slow grower that is prostrate unless it finds a vertical structure to climb. Oriental bittersweet is a fast growing monster that has the ability to grow upright and then cling onto a high tree branch and eventually will girdle the tree.


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## Bass_man (Sep 25, 2020)

Deadlawn said:


> Bass_man said:
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Wow, didn't know that. Thanks


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## Bass_man (Sep 25, 2020)

Thanks for all your help. I've decided to go with the woodland landscape idea. 
It's a start.


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## Oneacer (Sep 27, 2020)

nice .....


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Bass_man said:


> Thanks for all your help. I've decided to go with the woodland landscape idea.
> It's a start.


Nice!


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## Bass_man (Sep 25, 2020)

Got one of ten new beds in and finally got ahold of the tree service for the free wood chips. So things are moving along.


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Bass_man said:


> Got one of ten new beds in and finally got ahold of the tree service for the free wood chips. So things are moving along.


Be careful to keep that fill away from the tree trunks!


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## Bass_man (Sep 25, 2020)

Deadlawn said:


> Bass_man said:
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> 
> > Got one of ten new beds in and finally got ahold of the tree service for the free wood chips. So things are moving along.
> ...


Yup, the dirt/leaf mold is way from the tree trunks. Kinda have a "trench" around the trees. It's impressive how those trees fill in the area with new roots. I have another two beds like this and when I planted a fern in the center of the bed the other day I had to dig through a lot very fine roots. And that bed had only been there since June. I guess that's why they out compete grass for water making it tough to grow grass under trees even if there is sufficient light with.


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Bass_man said:


> Deadlawn said:
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Yes, roots will grow up into that soil because when you raise soil depth, it deprives the soil below of oxygen. Roots are looking for oxygen.

I had a large pile of compost delivered during the summer. When I got to the bottom of it last month, I had to dig through about 6 inches of new roots!


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## Bass_man (Sep 25, 2020)

And so it begins. This is the first of two loads. Measures about 45 feet long by 15ish feet wide


The first few loads and many many more trips back and forth with the riding mower and cart. Lots of new smells for Penny


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