# 2020 Cool Season Lawn Reno Forum - 2021 Starts on Page 44



## JerseyGreens

hey guys and gals - not sure if one of these was already started....I know a bit late in the game but wanted to start a group sounding board for those that are in the middle of lawn renos.

Been talking to a few usual suspects - but wanted to make one spot for us to chat, share ideas - pictures, lessons learned...what's been painful, etc.

@synergy0852 
@shadowlawnjutsu 
@bf7 
@MJR12284 
@OnTheLawn 
@Squire515 
@Zcape35

I know there are many others out there - please feel free to join the group discussion!


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## shadowlawnjutsu

+1 for starting a topic like this. This would consolidate all the experiences/tips that we have for 2020 lawn reno. I've been jumping around lawn journals.

To get things started, here are some of my key experiences during my reno.

1. The area that had quickest germination is the sun and shade area. Followed by the sunny area and the last one to germinate is the full shade and wet areas.

2. I got some weed pressure from the straw. This is a known fact but I just want to reiterate. But it really helped a lot on my slopes.

3. I had some areas with thick peat moss cover where germination is not very visible. Started to see baby grass on the 2nd week. But over all, they look like bare spots during the early germination. An evenly spread out peat moss will prevent this.

4. Bluebank germinates faster than Mazama. But mazama catches up in the 2nd week. Can't tell the difference now.


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## JerseyGreens

I'll just say for those in the Northeast that put seed down in the last 2 weeks dealt with a good amount of washout due to heavy T-storms.

I and @bf7 reseeded yesterday a bit - fingers crossed.

My KBG reno has 2 absolutely stunning areas...and a few that make me wonder what the heck happened!


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## bf7

Apparently my cultivars are fairly slow germers. Granted they are a little older than what most people on here are using nowadays. I think I had to dig up 2005 NTEP reports to see ratings.

I am seeing green hues in so many places today that absolutely were not there yesterday. Makes me wonder if I should have dropped the additional 1.5 lbs / 1k yesterday.

I am at day 14. It's looking like days 14-21 will be big for me. Well...could argue I am on day 11 since nothing happened during the 3 days that Laura wreaked her havoc. Actually took major steps backwards.


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## JerseyGreens

^ is starting to look like it's coming together.

I think the two of us win the most paranoid/impatient 100% KBG Renos of the year awards...


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## Zcape35

Hey folks. This is a great idea, one thing I actually did today was add 3 check valves to some irrigation heads. I thought they would be fine but these heads are all near each other and the area stays soaked. Coincidentally I have low germination in these areas. 
I put a little seed down and hopefully these areas can catch up to the others.


The dark area is one of these overly saturated areas.


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## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> ^ is starting to look like it's coming together.
> 
> I think the two of us win the most paranoid/impatient 100% KBG Renos of the year awards...


Hahaha, you are 1st and I am a close 2nd only separated by the mere fact that I haven't brought up sissy grass yet.


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## JerseyGreens

Zcape35 said:


> Hey folks. This is a great idea, one thing I actually did today was add 3 check valves to some irrigation heads. I thought they would be fine but these heads are all near each other and the area stays soaked. Coincidentally I have low germination in these areas.
> I put a little seed down and hopefully these areas can catch up to the others.
> 
> 
> The dark area is one of these overly saturated areas.


Can I pick your brain about what exactly you installed. I'm having terrible wetness in a few areas that I'm chalking up to overwatering...I'm changing out some nozzles again today (on my 360s) but interested in adding check valves.

How many days post seeding are you? Bet you that looks solid at night.


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## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ is starting to look like it's coming together.
> 
> I think the two of us win the most paranoid/impatient 100% KBG Renos of the year awards...
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha, you are 1st and I am a close 2nd only separated by the mere fact that I haven't brought up sissy grass yet.
Click to expand...

Haha - at this point I don't disagree with how you positioned us. We also dealt with the same level of crazy storms which is adding to our agitation.

Today:
Adding penn mulch to the major bare areas I reseeded.
Changing 2 - 360 sprinkler head nozzles to 2.5GPMs instead of 4GPM (putting out way too much in the middle of the yard - aka my problem area). Should have done this sooner to be honest.
Drop a minimal amount of starter fert to all other growing areas - targeting .20Lbs N per K


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## bf7

This evening I think I'm just going to broadcast what starter fert I have left (should equate to roughly 0.3 lbs N / 1k). I don't really want to put down the N yet, but I feel my soil could benefit from more P.

Oh yeah, and spread the rest of that stupid peat.


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## Zcape35

JerseyGreens said:


> Zcape35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey folks. This is a great idea, one thing I actually did today was add 3 check valves to some irrigation heads. I thought they would be fine but these heads are all near each other and the area stays soaked. Coincidentally I have low germination in these areas.
> I put a little seed down and hopefully these areas can catch up to the others.
> 
> 
> The dark area is one of these overly saturated areas.
> 
> 
> 
> Can I pick your brain about what exactly you installed. I'm having terrible wetness in a few areas that I'm chalking up to overwatering...I'm changing out some nozzles again today (on my 360s) but interested in adding check valves.
> 
> How many days post seeding are you? Bet you that looks solid at night.
Click to expand...

When your zone stops running does all the water drain out from the head? I have a slope so all the water from the line drains out at the lowest point. Not anymore though.


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## JerseyGreens

Zcape35 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zcape35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey folks. This is a great idea, one thing I actually did today was add 3 check valves to some irrigation heads. I thought they would be fine but these heads are all near each other and the area stays soaked. Coincidentally I have low germination in these areas.
> I put a little seed down and hopefully these areas can catch up to the others.
> 
> 
> The dark area is one of these overly saturated areas.
> 
> 
> 
> Can I pick your brain about what exactly you installed. I'm having terrible wetness in a few areas that I'm chalking up to overwatering...I'm changing out some nozzles again today (on my 360s) but interested in adding check valves.
> 
> How many days post seeding are you? Bet you that looks solid at night.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When your zone stops running does all the water drain out from the head? I have a slope so all the water from the line drains out at the lowest point. Not anymore though.
Click to expand...

Yes, I have that in two areas in particular - both cases it's the lowest head in that zone.

Did you completely swap out heads there?


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## Zcape35

What brand do you have?


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## JerseyGreens

Zcape35 said:


> What brand do you have?


Rainbird 5000s


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## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Zcape35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What brand do you have?
> 
> 
> 
> Rainbird 5000s
Click to expand...

I have the same problem in some of my sprinkler heads. Did you actually have to replace the head? How do you install the check valve?


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## shadowlawnjutsu

I will be spoon feeding in about a week or so. I have a question about spoon feeding. Can I use my leftover scott's starter fert for nitrogen spoon feeding? It's a 24-25-4. I'm sure the extra phosphorous can help right or just use AMS?

Follow up question, I have the brand Hi-Yield for my AMS. Unlike the AC brand, the hi-yield is not a powdery stuff it's actually granules. Probably why I had the problem dissolving them in water during the time I'm spraying it with glyphosate. Any one had an experience on granular AMS? Can I spread it using a handheld spreader or better get the AC and dissolve it in water to spray?


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## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> I will be spoon feeding in about a week or so. I have a question about spoon feeding. Can I use my leftover scott's starter fert for nitrogen spoon feeding? It's a 24-25-4. I'm sure the extra phosphorous can help right or just use AMS?


No experience with AMS yet (other than eyeballing scoops of it for the GLY apps).

On the first note, of course you can just be careful to stick around 0.20 - 0.25 Lbs N for the first few apps.

You can use any fertilizer you want just use this calculator to narrow down the amount you need:
http://agebb.missouri.edu/fertcalc/

My HD had vigoro hand spreaders for like $4 on sale - grab one. It helped a ton. I just fed the growing areas just now.


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## Zcape35

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zcape35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What brand do you have?
> 
> 
> 
> Rainbird 5000s
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have the same problem in some of my sprinkler heads. Did you actually have to replace the head? How do you install the check valve?
Click to expand...

I have Hunter PGP rotors, for my brand you just replace the filter basket for one that has a rubber gasket on it. I just unscrew the unit from the canister and swap out the filter. I'm sure rainbird has something similar.
Some units come with it and some don't but you can usually add it.


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## Zcape35

JerseyGreens said:


> Zcape35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What brand do you have?
> 
> 
> 
> Rainbird 5000s
Click to expand...

This looks like what you need. https://www.bigfrogsupply.com/products/scrnasynst-rainbird?variant=28277662019&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=Cj0KCQjwv7L6BRDxARIsAGj-34qdcQVhlRh-g6UWO-kb-_SOI4ROnidNPLyHSZDM1YBgjxAk2-G379MaAptdEALw_wcB


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## bf7

Getting off topic here, but I thought I'd share something that has been very therapeutic to me.

Don't look at the weather forecast unless you have to...

My stress levels have gone down tremendously since I stopped checking. I mean if you see a t-storm coming at you, nothing you can do in the moment to prevent damage anyway.

Understand some people need to look to adjust their irrigation when they aren't home, etc. But right now I have the luxury of working from home full time due to COVID. Really no need for me to check weather at all. Just react accordingly to the actual weather in real time.


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## Zcape35

bf7 said:


> Getting off topic here, but I thought I'd share something that has been very therapeutic to me.
> 
> Don't look at the weather forecast unless you have to...
> 
> My stress levels have gone down tremendously since I stopped checking. I mean if you see a t-storm coming at you, nothing you can do in the moment to prevent damage anyway.
> 
> Understand some people need to look to adjust their irrigation when they aren't home, etc. But right now I have the luxury of working from home full time due to COVID. Really no need for me to check weather at all. Just react accordingly to the actual weather in real time.


That's a good tip. This is my second reno and basically I've learned to chill out. I'm on the ball and ready to pounce into action for anything needed. But along the way I am remaining calm and realize that in the end it will be beautiful. No matter what by the time we are all done the neighbors will be jelly (and remain thinking that we are insane)!


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## bf7

@Zcape35 exactly, couldn't have said it better myself.

I wish there was some way to have an elite lawn without looking like a psycho, but alas, it's the path we've chosen, and a trade-off we need to accept.


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## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will be spoon feeding in about a week or so. I have a question about spoon feeding. Can I use my leftover scott's starter fert for nitrogen spoon feeding? It's a 24-25-4. I'm sure the extra phosphorous can help right or just use AMS?
> 
> 
> 
> No experience with AMS yet (other than eyeballing scoops of it for the GLY apps).
> 
> On the first note, of course you can just be careful to stick around 0.20 - 0.25 Lbs N for the first few apps.
> 
> You can use any fertilizer you want just use this calculator to narrow down the amount you need:
> http://agebb.missouri.edu/fertcalc/
> 
> My HD had vigoro hand spreaders for like $4 on sale - grab one. It helped a ton. I just fed the growing areas just now.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, that will be useful. That hand spreader is so cheap! Too bad I got the scotts manual hand spreader for 20 bucks just this morning.


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## JerseyGreens

So since I've been walking on my lawn lately noticed one area that is basically flooded...got me looking at the sprinkler nearby.

Took it off and found this...can't be normal right? For it just to be flooded like that once I pop the head out? Geez.


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## Zcape35

That can be normal, you just need to make sure while it's running that water is not bubbling up from the bottom of the head. If that's the case it might be cracked. 
The heads stay full of water mostly when they are at the lowest point on the zone.


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## JerseyGreens

Zcape35 said:


> That can be normal, you just need to make sure while it's running that water is not bubbling up from the bottom of the head. If that's the case it might be cracked.
> The heads stay full of water mostly when they are at the lowest point on the zone.


That is understandable and makes very good sense.

I went ahead and got 5000+ with a check valve on it...however when I went to go back and screw them in, they just keep on turning and the female PVC connection got pushed down.

I raised the heads after adding topsoil. Dug around the heads and put some soil under each head to raise them...the install was done on funny pipe making this fairly easy...wondering if I fudged something up with the connections...


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## g-man

I might need to add this to the Reno guide. Booze is not working. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D7JM4FX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_btf_t1_g4vtFbQH35RR9


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## synergy0852

g-man said:


> I might need to add this to the Reno guide. Booze is not working.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D7JM4FX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_btf_t1_g4vtFbQH35RR9


Can't believe they aren't sold out yet within a minute of this post!


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## g-man

Worry about the things you can control, but not about the ones you cant. We can't control the weather. There is still time for more seeds.


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## Zcape35

JerseyGreens said:


> Zcape35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That can be normal, you just need to make sure while it's running that water is not bubbling up from the bottom of the head. If that's the case it might be cracked.
> The heads stay full of water mostly when they are at the lowest point on the zone.
> 
> 
> 
> That is understandable and makes very good sense.
> 
> I went ahead and got 5000+ with a check valve on it...however when I went to go back and screw them in, they just keep on turning and the female PVC connection got pushed down.
> 
> I raised the heads after adding topsoil. Dug around the heads and put some soil under each head to raise them...the install was done on funny pipe making this fairly easy...wondering if I fudged something up with the connections...
Click to expand...

You mean you literally just did this? I would have to say that either the threads are gunked up with dirt or the threads aren't lining up properly. Is it still full of water? You may want to take a shop vac to suck out the debris (or dig it out but I know you don't want to do that).


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## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> I might need to add this to the Reno guide. Booze is not working.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D7JM4FX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_btf_t1_g4vtFbQH35RR9


Haha I love this! Can't deal with working from home...a 3 year old... pregnant wifey and my mistress, the Reno! :lol:


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## JerseyGreens

Zcape35 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zcape35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That can be normal, you just need to make sure while it's running that water is not bubbling up from the bottom of the head. If that's the case it might be cracked.
> The heads stay full of water mostly when they are at the lowest point on the zone.
> 
> 
> 
> That is understandable and makes very good sense.
> 
> I went ahead and got 5000+ with a check valve on it...however when I went to go back and screw them in, they just keep on turning and the female PVC connection got pushed down.
> 
> I raised the heads after adding topsoil. Dug around the heads and put some soil under each head to raise them...the install was done on funny pipe making this fairly easy...wondering if I fudged something up with the connections...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean you literally just did this? I would have to say that either the threads are gunked up with dirt or the threads aren't lining up properly. Is it still full of water? You may want to take a shop vac to suck out the debris (or dig it out but I know you don't want to do that).
Click to expand...

Hell yeah I just did this - the sequence of events started yesterday as I was throwing down more seed...stepped on this sponge layer of peat moss and thought WTH is going on here...

I talked to a local irrigation company - they agreed with my steps:
First just dig it out and put the head with a check valve - turn it off and let the surrounding area dry out...if it actually does dry out then I just needed a check valve and tightening up the new head.
If it still stays went then something else is going on with that zone, most likely with the valve...fun stuff?

Since I'm walking all over my babies (only the fittest should survive anyway) I dug up the regular 5000, installed the new one and flushed out the line...the check valve will obviously help even if it's an issue at the valve box (forgot exactly what the irrigation contractor said).

Fun stuff guys - who else other than @bf7 is walking on their yard?


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## Zcape35

Sounds like a solid plan! 
I feel like I'm walking more than in the past, just a little less paranoid perhaps, albeit I'm being careful. I walked on my front KBG reno this morning adding the check valves and I sprayed a fungicide mix on my rear overseed.


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## rob13psu

g-man said:


> I might need to add this to the Reno guide. Booze is not working.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D7JM4FX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_btf_t1_g4vtFbQH35RR9


Thanks @g-man, I spit a mouthful of water all over the monitor when I saw this.


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## JerseyGreens

Zcape35 said:


> Sounds like a solid plan!
> I feel like I'm walking more than in the past, just a little less paranoid perhaps, albeit I'm being careful. I walked on my front KBG reno this morning adding the check valves and I sprayed a fungicide mix on my rear overseed.


I will say there are some areas where I legit left an indent with my sandal as I sunk in.

I'll know it when I hit those spots with the reel mower...


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## Di3soft

Question about mowing young grass with greensmaster. I just replaced the reel with an 8 blade and a new bed knife. Backlapped and it's cutting paper in every spot no problem but I'm seeing this in quite a few places.


Looks like the mower is just bending the leaf and not cutting, just to be sure I backlapped it again today and still seeing this.


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## synergy0852

Do you have slight (.001") reel to bedknife contact @Di3soft? I get the same thing you're seeing when I don't set it like this. I use a .002" feeler gauge and tighten the contact until I can't slide it between the reel and bedknife then I back it off one click and see if I can again slide it between them. Once I get to that point I do 3 clicks on each side to get to .001" of contact with the reel to bedknife. Each click is .0007" of adjustment on the GM1600 FYI. If you have a GM1000 I think it's .003" per click so you'll have to modify my process to work for the difference in machines.


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## Di3soft

@synergy0852 jusy checked and I can't get a .0015 feeler gauge between so I may have it too tight don't have a .001 gauge so will have to estimate


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## synergy0852

Just to be clear you don't want a gap, but rather slight contact for the cleanest cut. It also helps keep the reel sharper for longer I believe. Also, check the manual for your year and model. That's the info from the manual I have for my year.


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## Carlson

I hadn't seen this thread! Can I play? Lol

Here's my reno'd front yard, 12 days from seed down / one week from germination. Got its first mow this evening.


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## Di3soft

synergy0852 said:


> Just to be clear you don't want a gap, but rather slight contact for the cleanest cut. It also helps keep the reel sharper for longer I believe. Also, check the manual for your year and model. That's the info from the manual I have for my year.


Yep I checked the manual and adjusted to spec if anything it was too tight, not sure if it would cause the same issue with bending grass but wouldn't make sense if it's too tight


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## JerseyGreens

Carlson said:


> I hadn't seen this thread! Can I play? Lol
> 
> Here's my reno'd front yard, 12 days from seed down / one week from germination. Got its first mow this evening.


GOOD LORD she's a beauty.

If this is 100% KBG I'm quitting.


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## Carlson

100% TTTF actually &#128516;

Thank you! Can't wait to see it after a few more mows.


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## JerseyGreens

Congratulations on the first mow.

You will help keep our sanity. I believe 5 of us here have gone off the deep end with 100% KBG Reno's. Maybe you can be our group therapist hah!


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## Squire515

JerseyGreens said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will be spoon feeding in about a week or so. I have a question about spoon feeding. Can I use my leftover scott's starter fert for nitrogen spoon feeding? It's a 24-25-4. I'm sure the extra phosphorous can help right or just use AMS?
> 
> 
> 
> No experience with AMS yet (other than eyeballing scoops of it for the GLY apps).
> 
> On the first note, of course you can just be careful to stick around 0.20 - 0.25 Lbs N for the first few apps.
> 
> You can use any fertilizer you want just use this calculator to narrow down the amount you need:
> http://agebb.missouri.edu/fertcalc/
> 
> My HD had vigoro hand spreaders for like $4 on sale - grab one. It helped a ton. I just fed the growing areas just now.
Click to expand...

Hey jersey greens. Do you happen to know how much P is too much? I'm not sure if you saw my reply in my journal thread, but I applied about 1.3lbs of P about two weeks ago.

I just reseeded so many bare spots today I might as well call it an overseed, so I'm still asking myself if I should throw down some more P.


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## JerseyGreens

Squire515 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will be spoon feeding in about a week or so. I have a question about spoon feeding. Can I use my leftover scott's starter fert for nitrogen spoon feeding? It's a 24-25-4. I'm sure the extra phosphorous can help right or just use AMS?
> 
> 
> 
> No experience with AMS yet (other than eyeballing scoops of it for the GLY apps).
> 
> On the first note, of course you can just be careful to stick around 0.20 - 0.25 Lbs N for the first few apps.
> 
> You can use any fertilizer you want just use this calculator to narrow down the amount you need:
> http://agebb.missouri.edu/fertcalc/
> 
> My HD had vigoro hand spreaders for like $4 on sale - grab one. It helped a ton. I just fed the growing areas just now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey jersey greens. Do you happen to know how much P is too much? I'm not sure if you saw my reply in my journal thread, but I applied about 1.3lbs of P about two weeks ago.
> 
> I just reseeded so many bare spots today I might as well call it an overseed, so I'm still asking myself if I should throw down some more P.
Click to expand...

Did you do a soil test?

Too much Phos is counterintuitive as it locks up certain nutrients and can cause fungus issues.

If I understand Phos correctly you need it there as a certain amount is used to take up N and other macro/micro nutrients. If you are spoonfeeding N then you don't need much Phos in addition to what's already in the soil readily available.

I just put down a very little amount of starter fert today but that's it.

Only N going forward.


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## Squire515

JerseyGreens said:


> Squire515 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> No experience with AMS yet (other than eyeballing scoops of it for the GLY apps).
> 
> On the first note, of course you can just be careful to stick around 0.20 - 0.25 Lbs N for the first few apps.
> 
> You can use any fertilizer you want just use this calculator to narrow down the amount you need:
> http://agebb.missouri.edu/fertcalc/
> 
> My HD had vigoro hand spreaders for like $4 on sale - grab one. It helped a ton. I just fed the growing areas just now.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey jersey greens. Do you happen to know how much P is too much? I'm not sure if you saw my reply in my journal thread, but I applied about 1.3lbs of P about two weeks ago.
> 
> I just reseeded so many bare spots today I might as well call it an overseed, so I'm still asking myself if I should throw down some more P.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you do a soil test?
> 
> Too much Phos is counterintuitive as it locks up certain nutrients and can cause fungus issues.
> 
> If I understand Phos correctly you need it there as a certain amount is used to take up N and other macro/micro nutrients. If you are spoonfeeding N then you don't need much Phos in addition to what's already in the soil readily available.
> 
> I just put down a very little amount of starter fert today but that's it.
> 
> Only N going forward.
Click to expand...

Yes, my soil was just under optimal range. Thanks for exposing that. I guess what I would like to know is whether the P I applied is still in my soil, which is probably an impossible question to answer.


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## garrettgriffin

9 day's post seed down and 4 DAG. Fescue is just starting to peak its head over the dead grass. Pretty happy with the results so far. Have a few areas I will be adding more seed and peat in about 2 or 3 weeks. Still plenty of time to put TTTF in the ground here in North Carolina!


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## synergy0852

@Squire515 I assure u that some of that P is still in the soil, most likely a high percentage.


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## JerseyGreens

garrettgriffin said:


> 9 day's post seed down and 4 DAG. Fescue is just starting to peak its head over the dead grass. Pretty happy with the results so far. Have a few areas I will be adding more seed and peat in about 2 or 3 weeks. Still plenty of time to put TTTF in the ground here in North Carolina!


Very nice!


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## JerseyGreens

Here is some lawn porn for you guys to wrap up your night.



This is where the tenacity went down heavy. Looks OK thus far.

@g-man I'll calm down now!


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## bf7

Carlson said:


> I hadn't seen this thread! Can I play? Lol
> 
> Here's my reno'd front yard, 12 days from seed down / one week from germination. Got its first mow this evening.


@JerseyGreens look at this guy storming in here with his majestic 12 day old Rhizing Moon. He's out there enjoying a mow while us nervous Nellies are sitting here, terrified of crushing our pouting babies, and talking about giving up and switching grass types.

In all seriousness though, it looks awesome @Carlson can't wait to see it at the end of the Fall


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## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Carlson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hadn't seen this thread! Can I play? Lol
> 
> Here's my reno'd front yard, 12 days from seed down / one week from germination. Got its first mow this evening.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @JerseyGreens look at this guy storming in here with his majestic 12 day old Rhizing Moon. He's out there enjoying a mow while us nervous Nellies are sitting here, terrified of crushing our pouting babies, and talking about giving up and switching grass types.
> 
> In all seriousness though, it looks awesome @Carlson can't wait to see it at the end of the Fall
Click to expand...

Haha tell me about it. I saw his pics and legit fell out of the sofa. Then I saw the signature. That is going to look first class this season.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> Here is some lawn porn for you guys to wrap up your night.
> 
> 
> 
> This is where the tenacity went down heavy. Looks OK thus far.
> 
> @g-man I'll calm down now!


Now that is nice. Look at that dark green in the back.

My lawn actually looks the best where I went heavy too.

Definitely don't want to encourage people to O.D. on Tenacity, but just saying


----------



## JerseyGreens

I got heavy Azoxy in those areas too though. Not sure but they say that class of fungicide gives seedlings vigor. It went from sitting at a quarter inch to that pretty quickly.

Too bad we can't see these pretty babies during the day much.


----------



## Slingblade_847

Slingblade here signing up! Geesh, this post gained traction quick! Great idea.

Here I am two weeks to the day after seed down. What you see currently is 100% KBG. Even mix of Midnight, Blue Note, and Award.



Debating if I want to introduce any PRG at this point. Initially was thinking 80/20 KBG/PRG, but seeing the results after two weeks, I'm debating.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Slingblade_847 said:


> Slingblade here signing up! Geesh, this post gained traction quick! Great idea.
> 
> Here I am two weeks to the day after seed down. What you see currently is 100% KBG. Even mix of Midnight, Blue Note, and Award.
> 
> 
> 
> Debating if I want to introduce any PRG at this point. Initially was thinking 80/20 KBG/PRG, but seeing the results after two weeks, I'm debating.


Looking sweet!!

Sissygrass. You want to add sissygrass? Don't do it. Look I can only take pretty night pics. You have this thick of a lawn already? This will fill in this season.

How many Lbs per K did you put down?


----------



## Slingblade_847

@JerseyGreens 
Ha! Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking! I put down 2.5lbs/k. Mixed with 3:1 pound ratio with Milo. Set the spreader on lowest setting, and got a total of two passes in. Thank god I mixed!

Luckily, my largest section pictured above has been coming in the best. My side yard, which I might start calling the "Hell-Fire" isn't as pretty. And having issues with peat moss sticking and retaining seed. Thinking I may reserve the PRG here if I can't figure out my peat and washout situation.

Hell Fire:


----------



## Carlson

@Slingblade_847 keep the monostand! It's just blowing up now and will look awesome once it's mowable - even the "hellfire" section looks to have a lot of small green bits in the areas that look brown.

Is the soil kept cooler there from the tree's shade?


----------



## Zcape35

Sissy grass! Ain't got no time for Sissy Grass (unless it's in my backyard).
@Carlson That is looking great, next time you mow throw in an extra pass for me!
Everyone is making some great progress, keep the grass porn coming. :lol: :nod:


----------



## Slingblade_847

Ok, @JerseyGreens and @Carlson , you've convinced me. Monostrand. The Hellfire is bad due to the following issues:

I actually had to till this section due to some significant issues I don't need to get into. But the result was an incredibly flat smooth surface, which I think is why my peat keeps washing away even with oscillating sprinklers. We haven't really had rain (can only imagine the looks of you boys face out in PA and east coast). Then there is the spot further back against the house. Stays shaded much longer. It isn't until around 1-2pm it starts getting sun. So I'm summary, it's a constant battle, but I am yielding some results.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Slingblade_847 said:


> Ok, @JerseyGreens and @Carlson , you've convinced me. Monostrand. The Hellfire is bad due to the following issues:
> 
> I actually had to till this section due to some significant issues I don't need to get into. But the result was an incredibly flat smooth surface, which I think is why my peat keeps washing away even with oscillating sprinklers. We haven't really had rain (can only imagine the looks of you boys face out in PA and east coast). Then there is the spot further back against the house. Stays shaded much longer. It isn't until around 1-2pm it starts getting sun. So I'm summary, it's a constant battle, but I am yielding some results.


Listen you mister - these results are great. Even your hell strip is good.

Many of us wished for no rain the first 14 days post seed down but didn't get it. Looks like you did!


----------



## bf7

@Slingblade_847 in case you needed one more vote, monostand. Don't even think about going rye on us!

I have a question for everyone about fungicides. I know a few of us did Azoxy at seed down. When are y'all doing your follow up treatment? I think most are using Propi for the second app. My issue now is that I have some good germination going but I also need to keep the soil moist for my new seeds dropped last weekend. Which means I need to keep up a little night watering. Temps aren't super hot anymore, but humidity is very high. Still within the window for the Azoxy app, but I'm not sure how effective it is given there was no leaf tissue when I put it down. I am thinking of putting down some Propi asap. Thoughts? Any risk of over-applying fungicides?


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> @Slingblade_847 in case you needed one more vote, monostand. Don't even think about going rye on us!
> 
> I have a question for everyone about fungicides. I know a few of us did Azoxy at seed down. When are y'all doing your follow up treatment? I think most are using Propi for the second app. My issue now is that I have some good germination going but I also need to keep the soil moist for my new seeds dropped last weekend. Which means I need to keep up a little night watering. Temps aren't super hot anymore, but humidity is very high. Still within the window for the Azoxy app, but I'm not sure how effective it is given there was no leaf tissue when I put it down. I am thinking of putting down some Propi asap. Thoughts? Any risk of over-applying fungicides?


I'm thinking you have no issue putting down prop now. Fungicides really can't cause much harm if you ask me


----------



## Carlson

I think if there is one thing we agree on is that ryegrass is not the appropriate cure for KBG sprouting anxiety!


----------



## Carlson

@bf7 I did propi at seed-down along with my tenacity. Should it still be warm enough for fungus at the 28-day mark I may put out some azoxy then, but I'm hoping I won't need it..

Then again it looked like Connor put fungicide down on his reno right before snow last fall and had very little snow mold in the spring...


----------



## bf7

@JerseyGreens I agree I have never come across any conclusive evidence that over-applying is detrimental. I don't have much first hand experience with these products yet, but I will probably end up going for it.

@Carlson I would definitely be waiting the 28 days if I had applied to actual grass. I'm just not sure how effective fungicides are when you are spraying the dirt. For me the seed down app was just an extra insurance policy more than anything.

Connor's lawn is pretty much perfect so I would be inclined to follow whatever he does lol. I will likely be applying thru the end of Fall.


----------



## Zcape35

I think Prop is 14-21 days, it should be fine to do one more app of that but then I'd switch to another group. I did Azoxy at seed down and will be following with Prop at the 28 day mark.
I just hit my back yard with Clearys 3336 and Prop to give it a little protection, some of the nomix back there is prone to issues. I believe I had some Dollar spot or brown patch prior to seeding.


----------



## Di3soft

Everyone's renovation are looking great! Hoping mine comes out of the pout stage soon.

Ill be applying .25N per K with urea each week to help it along.

Just out of curiosity would ferrous iron help new seedlings?


----------



## bf7

Zcape35 said:


> I think Prop is 14-21 days, it should be fine to do one more app of that but then I'd switch to another group. I did Azoxy at seed down and will be following with Prop at the 28 day mark.
> I just hit my back yard with Clearys 3336 and Prop to give it a little protection, some of the nomix back there is prone to issues. I believe I had some Dollar spot or brown patch prior to seeding.


We're on the same program. I also did Azoxy at seed down. Was going to alternate each app.

Would you consider putting down Propi before the 28 day mark, or do you trust the Azoxy even though there was no green to absorb it?


----------



## Zcape35

It would honestly be a total guess, but like you said you never had actual foliar contact. I wouldn't hesitate to spread it personally. If I had initially put Propi down I would be repeating at the 14 day mark anyway.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Checked around that head - still insanely wet. Called the irrigation contractor - he checked it out, saw the threads chewed up a little bit on the funny pipe but that's it. Replaced that.

Painful seeing parts of the yard overly wet/muddy and other parts drying out quickly.

I'm going to put a halt to any irrigating over the next few days and truly let the yard dry out. I'm probably getting seed rot in many of the un-germed portions up front that just never dry out. Only water it's getting will be mother nature for awhile.


----------



## Carlson

Does the urea N blitz work as well for tttf as it does kbg? Debating heading over to the farm supply store...


----------



## JerseyGreens

Carlson said:


> Does the urea N blitz work as well for tttf as it does kbg? Debating heading over to the farm supply store...


Spoonfeeding and the N blitz help all types of grasses.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> Checked around that head - still insanely wet. Called the irrigation contractor - he checked it out, saw the threads chewed up a little bit on the funny pipe but that's it. Replaced that.
> 
> Painful seeing parts of the yard overly wet/muddy and other parts drying out quickly.
> 
> I'm going to put a halt to any irrigating over the next few days and truly let the yard dry out. I'm probably getting seed rot in many of the un-germed portions up front that just never dry out. Only water it's getting will be mother nature for awhile.


Bold move. Sorry to hear about your irrigation issues.

You learn a lot about your yard during a first time reno. Hopefully we work out all these kinks for the next one. And we won't be nervous wrecks anymore!


----------



## Di3soft

Been monitoring the moisture on the yard so when I mow its firm, It seems like my entire front yard needs about 36 hours to dry enough to mow. Does that seems normal?


----------



## synergy0852

That's about where I'm at when the soil is completely saturated @Di3soft. I can walk on mine within hours of irrigating right now as it's not completely saturated with the short cycles I ran for germination and seedlings. Sounds like maybe you've watered to keep it wet deeper in the soil profile so it may be saturated?


----------



## OnTheLawn

I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.


----------



## Di3soft

@synergy0852 I was running 5 minutes per zone 6 times a day, now switching to what we discussed before 10min at 530am and 5 min in the afternoon.

Do I need to pause watering for a few days to let it dry up a bit?


----------



## synergy0852

Right now I'm just making sure the top 2" doesn't dry out. I have some low areas that are saturated but 95% I can walk on within hours of irrigating. Yesterday I ran 10mins in morning and had to run 2x 5mins in the afternoon. Does your soil make "squishing" noises if you walk on it before the 36 hours? If not I'd just keep doing what you're doing. If yes then cut back on water a bit.


----------



## JerseyGreens

OnTheLawn said:


> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.


Haha - dude you are about to hit seed down. You better be checking the weather reports!


----------



## Di3soft

it doesnt make squishing noises but you can see the soil is moist and when i tried to use the greensmaster on it the front roller got all caked up with dirt


----------



## OnTheLawn

@JerseyGreens based on the last time I checked it... my current thought process is to just believe that there is a 50% chance of nice weather perfect for seed down day on both Wednesday and Thursday. It's going to be great! Wonderful!

I'll wake up tomorrow and give it a look and check the radar. I'm going to have to mend some areas damaged by the last storm first thing, so that'll give me time to get a better picture of what's going on in the sky over those first 48 hours. I picked up two bags of Slopemaster that I'm going to use instead of doing just peat moss. Also have some compost that I'm going to mix into the peat moss and do a combo of all three. Slopemaster first, heavier on the perimeter and lighter in the flatter areas, then opposite with the peat moss/compost mixture.


----------



## JerseyGreens

OnTheLawn said:


> @JerseyGreens based on the last time I checked it... my current thought process is to just believe that there is a 50% chance of nice weather perfect for seed down day on both Wednesday and Thursday. It's going to be great! Wonderful!
> 
> I'll wake up tomorrow and give it a look and check the radar. I'm going to have to mend some areas damaged by the last storm first thing, so that'll give me time to get a better picture of what's going on in the sky over those first 48 hours. I picked up two bags of Slopemaster that I'm going to use instead of doing just peat moss. Also have some compost that I'm going to mix into the peat moss and do a combo of all three. Slopemaster first, heavier on the perimeter and lighter in the flatter areas, then opposite with the peat moss/compost mixture.


You got this man. If there is anything you learned from us here - use a tackifier everywhere. Pretty sure the slope master has some.


----------



## Slingblade_847

OnTheLawn said:


> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.
> I will not check the weather report until I wake up tomorrow.


Only curious how many times you checked the weather report since this post...LOL


----------



## OnTheLawn

Not even once @Slingblade_847! I took a screenshot a couple days ago of a basically perfect report for Wednesday-Tuesday and I've been just looking at that haha. Keeping my mind focused on good things. It's all good. Everything is fine.


----------



## OnTheLawn

@JerseyGreens yup, Slopemaster has tackifier thankfully. I'll be interested to see what the backyard looks like when we get back. I saw germination the day before we left in some areas, but we got pummeled with rain just as I finished putting down the peat moss. I didn't do anything to rectify it, so we'll see how much washout may have occurred.

Ultimately I think I'm going to be ok whenever I decide to throw down. It's never going to be perfect, so best not to overthink the things I can't control and just use my best judgement.


----------



## JerseyGreens

synergy0852 said:


> Right now I'm just making sure the top 2" doesn't dry out. I have some low areas that are saturated but 95% I can walk on within hours of irrigating. Yesterday I ran 10mins in morning and had to run 2x 5mins in the afternoon. Does your soil make "squishing" noises if you walk on it before the 36 hours? If not I'd just keep doing what you're doing. If yes then cut back on water a bit.


In your experience how long does it usually take for soil that got to "squishy" level finally take to pull back and dry out.

Of course this particular area is covered in peat moss which isn't helping with evaporation!


----------



## Zcape35

I'd think it would dry out pretty quick, day or so. Is it the type of irrigation head that can be shut off individually? If that is the case you could shut a few off and run the rest.


----------



## synergy0852

JerseyGreens said:


> synergy0852 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right now I'm just making sure the top 2" doesn't dry out. I have some low areas that are saturated but 95% I can walk on within hours of irrigating. Yesterday I ran 10mins in morning and had to run 2x 5mins in the afternoon. Does your soil make "squishing" noises if you walk on it before the 36 hours? If not I'd just keep doing what you're doing. If yes then cut back on water a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> In your experience how long does it usually take for soil that got to "squishy" level finally take to pull back and dry out.
> 
> Of course this particular area is covered in peat moss which isn't helping with evaporation!
Click to expand...

For me this only happens in my backyard and it takes 2-3 days sometimes this time of year. A rainy spring or fall can even take 4-5 days sometimes. Its been getting better over the years with all the products I've thrown at it but I'd say at least 2 days for me now before I feel comfortable putting a mower on it. I'll walk all over it within 24 hrs though.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Zcape35 said:


> I'd think it would dry out pretty quick, day or so. Is it the type of irrigation head that can be shut off individually? If that is the case you could shut a few off and run the rest.


Yes indeed - I shut that one off but it gets hit by a bunch other ones through overlap.

The sandy parts of my yard look fairly moist - don't notice any drying seed. Plus we have overcast - just going to rid out the day as much as I can.

One day at a time - I'll know right away if it's better by tomorrow. if it's status quo - something else must be going on under that part of the yard.


----------



## Di3soft

@synergy0852 im guessing we have soil that pretty much the same based on your comment of drying out. We are actually getting some rain today but not huge amounts, ill turn the sprinklers off for a few days after and see how long it takes to dry out enough to run a mower on it. Will be making adjustments based on that


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> @synergy0852 im guessing we have soil that pretty much the same based on your comment of drying out. We are actually getting some rain today but not huge amounts, ill turn the sprinklers off for a few days after and see how long it takes to dry out enough to run a mower on it. Will be making adjustments based on that


I'm not using my sprinklers and I just threw down more seed few days ago.

The wet spots have little to no germ so I'm going nuclear and drying out those areas. Oh and I'm changing nozzles in some heads (127392963 time doing that)


----------



## Di3soft

@JerseyGreens I have a strange sprinkler set up for the renovation, zone 1, 2 are rainbird r-vans with head to head coverage, zone 3 is an oscillating sprinkler and one orbit square spray head as I couldn't get any other set up to work there with out spending a bunch more money on heads and nozzles for a strangely shaped small area. so zone 1,2 have matched precipitation rate while the other side doesn't. I have one small area that get pooling of water but nothing crazy and there is some germination there.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@Di3soft I have germ just about everywhere too but A lot slower and more sporadic on areas staying too wet.

Based on my pictures those areas on the side of my yard are nicely filling in - most of those spots don't get hit by my 2 - 360s rotary heads with a 4GPM nozzle on it.

You live and learn - I was watering too heavily...you never realize it until you decide to walk on the babies and then I had the ah crap moment. All good.


----------



## Di3soft

synergy0852 said:


> Do you have slight (.001") reel to bedknife contact @Di3soft? I get the same thing you're seeing when I don't set it like this. I use a .002" feeler gauge and tighten the contact until I can't slide it between the reel and bedknife then I back it off one click and see if I can again slide it between them. Once I get to that point I do 3 clicks on each side to get to .001" of contact with the reel to bedknife. Each click is .0007" of adjustment on the GM1600 FYI. If you have a GM1000 I think it's .003" per click so you'll have to modify my process to work for the difference in machines.


Went through the owners manual and I have a newer gm1000 which has the same .0007 adjustment as your 1600. Went through and readjusted the reel to bedknife and realized I must have screwed something up during the install so it wasnt parallel, now it is but there is a few spots that wont cut, so im going to re-backlap the reel again now thats its parallel and get it all adjusted before the next mow.


----------



## Di3soft

JerseyGreens said:


> @Di3soft I have germ just about everywhere too but A lot slower and more sporadic on areas staying too wet.
> 
> Based on my pictures those areas on the side of my yard are nicely filling in - most of those spots don't get hit by my 2 - 360s rotary heads with a 4GPM nozzle on it.
> 
> You live and learn - I was watering too heavily...you never realize it until you decide to walk on the babies and then I had the ah crap moment. All good.


Yep it seems that I was watering too much as well at 5 min per zone 6 times a day, just looked and that comes out to be about .35" of water per day, so I must have watered too much.


----------



## JerseyGreens

I'm right there with you buddy - just realized I should have been at 2-3 minutes per zone and those 4GPM nozzles should have been 3s.

Like folks on here have said - keep calm and fix it.

We have plenty of time guys to throw down more seed and fix issues. That's the beauty of having seed down around the 2nd or 3rd week of August. You learn stuff like this and react in time.


----------



## JerseyGreens

I've read countless journals where people throw in the towel come winter time and are just about to call their reno a fail - then spring comes around and all those random seeds that were tossed into the yard that didnt germ just happen to come out - read this a lot on KBG renos. The following spring just surprises some folks.


----------



## Di3soft

yep for sure man, i was seed down on the 8th so plenty of time. the LCN illinois group on FB is so full bad information they were all arguing with me that seed down should be mid to late September...guessing their overseeds and renovations will not come out very well.


----------



## Di3soft

Feel like at that point they may as well just try dormant seeding in later october or november


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> yep for sure man, i was seed down on the 8th so plenty of time. the LCN illinois group on FB is so full bad information they were all arguing with me that seed down should be mid to late September...guessing their overseeds and renovations will not come out very well.


For people who don't have irrigation or any concept in moving a sprinkler around their yards - yeah, the later the better, or timing it around a "rainy week".

Just to say mid to late September is the biggest falsehood. My neighbor came out and told me that when I put seed down...I'm like listen here buddy - we bake in time for issues that don't come to light until we are in the middle of the reno.


----------



## Di3soft

Yea my wifes dad keeps telling me I should of just putt seed down before first snow and it would be great in the spring. I dont argue I just say ill see how this turns out.


----------



## Zcape35

Tell me about it, how about all the questions you get while you are fallowing dirt? Or even when you kill all of the grass? It got to the point where I gave up in trying to explain and just started telling everyone we will have grass in about 6 to 8 weeks. lol


----------



## Di3soft

my neighbors that are right around me all dont questions cause they see how often I work on the yard. But people walking around some would ask questions other would tell me that my lawn looks dead cause I cut it too short haha. For the most part everyone has been pretty cool with it and are commenting on the progress that it has made since I killed everything off.


----------



## Di3soft

Even started to ask to me for recommendations on what they should do with their yard.

The question I get the most is where I got my above ground sprinkler system ha, i tell them I built it and they nope right out of there.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> Even started to ask to me for recommendations on what they should do with their yard.
> 
> The question I get the most is where I got my above ground sprinkler system ha, i tell them I built it and they nope right out of there.


Yeah my neighbor's pulled me into renting an aerator on Friday to help with their yards so they can overseed. I said I'll go pick it up with you guys but your on your own once we get back hah!


----------



## Di3soft

haha yea those things will beat you up


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> haha yea those things will beat you up


Hell yeah they will! I'm sure we all know when we first did our first aeration haha. The Advil you need the next day - oh man.


----------



## Di3soft

needed a little less then than I did after spreading all the topsoil/sand this time around, my body hurt for at least a week after


----------



## Di3soft

@JerseyGreens btw great idea on this thread


----------



## Carlson

JerseyGreens said:


> Di3soft said:
> 
> 
> 
> haha yea those things will beat you up
> 
> 
> 
> Hell yeah they will! I'm sure we all know when we first did our first aeration haha. The Advil you need the next day - oh man.
Click to expand...

I gave myself exercise-induced asthma using my slice seeder hahaha. Non-self-propelled machines are no joke.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> @JerseyGreens btw great idea on this thread


Yeah man!

Misery loves company and madness calls it forth!


----------



## zeus201

On Plan B for my lawn reno. Originally going to be a continuation of my Mazama mono, but town had different ideas. Nuked lawn on July 6th, and then the next day town put in place an irrigation ban which justed ended just yesterday. As ban kept going, my seeding window for KBG kept getting tighter and eventually the window closed as average frost date is first week of October in my area. Just not enough time to seed and have the lawn "ready" before first frost and winter.

Soo....made an executive decision mid-August, ordered Pangea PRG for a monostand. Seeded yesterday @ 7lbs/k. Hopefully by this weekend I'll see some germination.


----------



## Di3soft




----------



## Zcape35

My next door neighbor yelled over that he thought he saw a dry blade of grass in my front yard. I said "listen guy, next time you see one call me right away don't wait until you see me"!
He loves busting my chops


----------



## Di3soft

@Zcape35 thats awesome, my neighbor across the street would keep telling me the lawn is getting long and needs a mow a day after I mowed. He to loves busting my chops about my lawn addiction.


----------



## Zcape35

That's hilarious, I always take a little peak around to see who is outside before I bend over to study my dirt, or my grass, or some seeds, or soil saturation.
After I did my first reno last year two of my adjoining neighbors put in irrigation systems after having lived in their homes for over 10 years. Catch me if you can!


----------



## Carlson

At my old house my neighbors were always spying when I would do outdoor work, and I definitely witnessed the guy across the street do the EXACT process I did for a reno 1yr after I did mine.

New place has woods all around so nobody really knows how badly they are getting dominated save for maybe UPS or Mail and my family lol

AT LEAST MY GRASS IS THE GREENEST ON GOOGLE EARTH


----------



## Zcape35

Carlson said:


> At my old house my neighbors were always spying when I would do outdoor work, and I definitely witnessed the guy across the street do the EXACT process I did for a reno 1yr after I did mine.
> 
> New place has woods all around so nobody really knows how badly they are getting dominated save for maybe UPS or Mail and my family lol
> 
> AT LEAST MY GRASS IS THE GREENEST ON GOOGLE EARTH


Haha that's awesome. My Google Earth hasn't updated but the Google Map car captured me mowing my lawn last year, so there's that lol. I still had my renovation tape up!


----------



## Carlson

I check Google Earth's timeline maps every couple of months for new pics. Seems like my house gets a flyby every 10-16 months. I'm a little worried they're going to catch my gly'd front yard this year haha


----------



## Zcape35

Our Google Earth is old, it isn't even 3d like most of our State.


----------



## Slingblade_847

Ok. This is probably the most entertaining thread I've come across, and love the personalities and humor.

Neighbors. Well, I've gone one set of neighbors rooting against me. But the bright side is it got so bad with the neighbor wife making comments to my wife, she told me to get the gas powered reel. My man @Di3soft is helping me track one down and will help me eyeball before purchase. The rest of the neighborhood, well, I'm on a first name basis with about everyone that walks by who used to just walk by and wave. They are all interested. One couple walked by and gave me a round of applause when I got my germination.

Google earth? I can only hope they caught this:


----------



## Carlson

Finally a good use for marking dye!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Slingblade_847 said:


> Ok. This is probably the most entertaining thread I've come across, and love the personalities and humor.
> 
> Neighbors. Well, I've gone one set of neighbors rooting against me. But the bright side is it got so bad with the neighbor wife making comments to my wife, she told me to get the gas powered reel. My man @Di3soft is helping me track one down and will help me eyeball before purchase. The rest of the neighborhood, well, I'm on a first name basis with about everyone that walks by who used to just walk by and wave. They are all interested. One couple walked by and gave me a round of applause when I got my germination.
> 
> Google earth? I can only hope they caught this:


I nominate this for LOTM!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Still slow germ in my wet areas. I'm at Day 11 since seed down. Some areas are taken off. Others. Not so much.

Good chance I had washout and over watered.

For those that have done Reno's in the past have you ever come across grass seed rotting out?


----------



## Slingblade_847

JerseyGreens said:


> Di3soft said:
> 
> 
> 
> yep for sure man, i was seed down on the 8th so plenty of time. the LCN illinois group on FB is so full bad information they were all arguing with me that seed down should be mid to late September...guessing their overseeds and renovations will not come out very well.
> 
> 
> 
> For people who don't have irrigation or any concept in moving a sprinkler around their yards - yeah, the later the better, or timing it around a "rainy week".
> 
> Just to say mid to late September is the biggest falsehood. My neighbor came out and told me that when I put seed down...I'm like listen here buddy - we bake in time for issues that don't come to light until we are in the middle of the reno.
Click to expand...

I find myself going to my local LCN Facebook groups for an ego boost. "I wonder what these guys think is a good idea now...". When I respond, I feel like the "gman" of this forum.


----------



## billw

Another reno here, in NJ! I got quite lucky the last week as all major storms either went north or south of me except for one. It's been 8 days from seed down and my 90% TTTF 10% KBG mix is doing well. I have some creeping Charlie that's turning white from the Tenacity as well.

The back right corner of the yard is doing the best. No idea why.

I remember when I was doing my second app of Gly my neighbor had an open house and all of the people there to see it were really confused as to why I was dying my lawn blue lol.


----------



## WyGuy

16 days post seeding, about 9 post germination. 100% mazama. Had some minor issues with washout from a storm or two, plan on dropping a little more seed this weekend.


----------



## Di3soft

Just a little night time photo


----------



## Zcape35

Slingblade_847 said:


> Ok. This is probably the most entertaining thread I've come across, and love the personalities and humor.
> 
> Neighbors. Well, I've gone one set of neighbors rooting against me. But the bright side is it got so bad with the neighbor wife making comments to my wife, she told me to get the gas powered reel. My man @Di3soft is helping me track one down and will help me eyeball before purchase. The rest of the neighborhood, well, I'm on a first name basis with about everyone that walks by who used to just walk by and wave. They are all interested. One couple walked by and gave me a round of applause when I got my germination.
> 
> Google earth? I can only hope they caught this:


That is awesome!!!


----------



## Zcape35

Di3soft said:


> Just a little night time photo


Dude... @Di3soft you need to start your post with NSFW. My wife almost caught me drooling over your photo.


----------



## Zcape35

@WyGuy its coming along great, just imagine if you didn't have any washouts.
@billw I bet that helped them with their house value lmao


----------



## Di3soft

Zcape35 said:


> Di3soft said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just a little night time photo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude... @Di3soft you need to start your post with NSFW. My wife almost caught me drooling over your photo.
Click to expand...

Haha, it only looks that good down low with a flash light but thanks!


----------



## Squire515

bf7 said:


> @Slingblade_847 in case you needed one more vote, monostand. Don't even think about going rye on us!
> 
> I have a question for everyone about fungicides. I know a few of us did Azoxy at seed down. When are y'all doing your follow up treatment? I think most are using Propi for the second app. My issue now is that I have some good germination going but I also need to keep the soil moist for my new seeds dropped last weekend. Which means I need to keep up a little night watering. Temps aren't super hot anymore, but humidity is very high. Still within the window for the Azoxy app, but I'm not sure how effective it is given there was no leaf tissue when I put it down. I am thinking of putting down some Propi asap. Thoughts? Any risk of over-applying fungicides?


I faced the same issue. I put down headway G, which is an azoxy and propi mix. I checked my irrigation today and the blades were pretty much wet all day, so I'm glad I did.

Now the question is whether to mow appropriately or wait until the new seeds germinate. What's your plan?


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Good morning! How are you doing this morning? It's been raining for hours here in Northern NJ. And looks like It will rain for a while.


----------



## OnTheLawn

Well, I have four different weather apps telling me four different things for my area. Ranging from only a 20% chance of rain over the next two days to an 80% chance of thunderstorms tonight and an 80% chance of rain and storms tomorrow evening.

Then from Friday on is supposed to be clear skies and beautiful. I'm trying not to be impatient here but I really want to get seed down. If I don't over the next two days while I'm off I may have to wait until Sunday, unless I can get it all done Friday before work. No idea what to do...


----------



## HoosierLawnGnome

Nice overcast week around 80 degrees here.

Super from the golf course is coming over to see what's going on.


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Good morning! How are you doing this morning? It's been raining for hours here in Northern NJ. And looks like It will rain for a while.


Hey pal - haven't heard from you in awhile. Can we see pictures?


----------



## bf7

Squire515 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Slingblade_847 in case you needed one more vote, monostand. Don't even think about going rye on us!
> 
> I have a question for everyone about fungicides. I know a few of us did Azoxy at seed down. When are y'all doing your follow up treatment? I think most are using Propi for the second app. My issue now is that I have some good germination going but I also need to keep the soil moist for my new seeds dropped last weekend. Which means I need to keep up a little night watering. Temps aren't super hot anymore, but humidity is very high. Still within the window for the Azoxy app, but I'm not sure how effective it is given there was no leaf tissue when I put it down. I am thinking of putting down some Propi asap. Thoughts? Any risk of over-applying fungicides?
> 
> 
> 
> I faced the same issue. I put down headway G, which is an azoxy and propi mix. I checked my irrigation today and the blades were pretty much wet all day, so I'm glad I did.
> 
> Now the question is whether to mow appropriately or wait until the new seeds germinate. What's your plan?
Click to expand...

I will start mowing as soon as a good portion of the yard is long enough to mow. I'm not at that point yet. Only long enough in a few small spots. Majority of lawn is currently in pout mode. Not worried about stepping on the younger seeds / seedlings. I've done that plenty already and they are doing alright.

I'm probably doing my second fungicide app over the weekend. I wanted to do it sooner. The product needs some time to dry but it's been raining here nonstop the past couple of days. Actually had some more washout after putting down a ton more peat :x

A little concerned about the 98% humidity, constant rain, and temps not getting below 70 at night. I want to get my fungicide down.


----------



## Carlson

So I just popped over to the local farm supply shop and nabbed a 50lb bag of 46-0-0 urea fert - want to make sure I understand the spoon-feed approach for a reno.
>0.25#N / 1000sq ft per week - is that the right target?
>When can I start? (One mow in thus far...)

At 46-0-0, 5lb of fert should yield 2.3lb N... which should be just about on point for the 8k sq ft out front.


----------



## g-man

@Carlson do the simple math. Use half a pound of urea per ksqft. That gives you around 0.25lb of N/ksqft. For 8k, you need 4lbs.

Start around 14 days post germination or so.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Hey pal - haven't heard from you in awhile. Can we see pictures?


Just updated my journal with new photos. It looks like I'm in the sprout and pout stage. Don't see a significant change in the last 3 days. My wet area is still slow to germinate. No sign of getting thicker. Maybe the slugs is also a part of that.

Here's a pucture of my front lawn:


Still raining here though. I kept on redirecting my downspout whenever I see that an area is already too wet. Good thing is that there's already some grass. But it's still too little. It could still be washed out with enough water pressure.


----------



## Chris1

zeus201 said:


> On Plan B for my lawn reno. Originally going to be a continuation of my Mazama mono, but town had different ideas. Nuked lawn on July 6th, and then the next day town put in place an irrigation ban which justed ended just yesterday. As ban kept going, my seeding window for KBG kept getting tighter and eventually the window closed as average frost date is first week of October in my area. Just not enough time to seed and have the lawn "ready" before first frost and winter.
> 
> Soo....made an executive decision mid-August, ordered Pangea PRG for a monostand. Seeded yesterday @ 7lbs/k. Hopefully by this weekend I'll see some germination.


I am really interested to see how the Pangea performs


----------



## Carlson

g-man said:


> @Carlson do the simple math. Use half a pound of urea per ksqft. That gives you around 0.25lb of N/ksqft. For 8k, you need 4lbs.
> 
> Start around 14 days post germination or so.


Fair enough - although I do enjoy my fert calculus


----------



## OnTheLawn

I caved. Seed is down under the maple tree. Will take a break, grab some lunch, and decide if doing the rest is wise given the chance of storms tonight.


----------



## Slingblade_847

16 days after seed down, 9 DAG:

Glamour Shot:



Now for the BDSM type sh*t:


----------



## MJR12284

JerseyGreens said:


> hey guys and gals - not sure if one of these was already started....I know a bit late in the game but wanted to start a group sounding board for those that are in the middle of lawn renos.
> 
> Been talking to a few usual suspects - but wanted to make one spot for us to chat, share ideas - pictures, lessons learned...what's been painful, etc.
> 
> @synergy0852
> @shadowlawnjutsu
> @bf7
> @MJR12284
> @OnTheLawn
> @Squire515
> @Zcape35
> 
> I know there are many others out there - please feel free to join the group discussion!


I am a few days late to this party but this is a great thread! Great work all!


----------



## bf7

Remain calm @Slingblade_847 Your fifty shades sections look like some of my better ones lol


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Remain calm @Slingblade_847 Your fifty shades sections look like some of my better ones lol


Haha seriously couldn't of said this better!


----------



## Di3soft

Got plenty of those my self ha


----------



## Zcape35

My naughty sections broke my camera when I took the pictures!   
@MJR12284 still time to join the festivities lol


----------



## OnTheLawn

Seed is down. Let the party begin.


----------



## Zcape35

@OnTheLawn no time like the present. Fingers crossed for nice weather.


----------



## OnTheLawn

@Zcape35 we got a very light rain for about 20 minutes and that's it. Hopefully it's passed and I can wake up tomorrow to monitor moisture and finish dialing in the irrigation timing!


----------



## Di3soft

Anyone with any good ideas about my sprinkler system. Now that I have to mow pretty frequently it's a pain to take apart and move the system each time.

Here are some pics of it

Mainly this section below it's all 1" poly pipe that I have to take apart into sections so I don't turn the greensmaster around on the young grass


And looking at these pics my freshly seal coated driveway is ruined once again haha


----------



## OnTheLawn

@Di3soft hmm, in all honesty, probably cheapest to get a manual reel for the time being while the grass matures that you can just pickup when you need to turn or avoid an obstacle.


----------



## Di3soft

Did really want to invest in another mower. But maybe I'll have to or I'll just suck it up and move the sprinkler system each time


----------



## Di3soft

Maybe switch out all the poly pipe for blu lock with their removable fittings


----------



## Slingblade_847

I've switched to hand watering due to other issues. For now, I'm enjoying it, and have lots of control over dry/wetter areas.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Got some heavy rain last night. Grasses lying down due to washout. Some of them looks uprooted.


----------



## bf7

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Got some heavy rain last night. Grasses laying down due to washout. Some of them looks uprooted.


Exactly what happened to me. Everything that germinated from days 6-12 looked like this. The ones that are just laying down should come back. Most of mine were fully uprooted though. They were younger plants than yours.

Is it like that everywhere?


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

bf7 said:


> Exactly what happened to me. Everything that germinated from days 6-12 looked like this. The ones that are just laying down should come back. Most of mine were fully uprooted though. They were younger plants than yours.
> 
> Is it like that everywhere?


It's not everywhere it's just in the slope area where I get the worst washout and the sidewalk strip. Hopefully there's not much damage. I'll wait til after the first mow to reseed if necessary.


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly what happened to me. Everything that germinated from days 6-12 looked like this. The ones that are just laying down should come back. Most of mine were fully uprooted though. They were younger plants than yours.
> 
> Is it like that everywhere?
> 
> 
> 
> It's not everywhere it's just in the slope area where I get the worst washout and the sidewalk strip. Hopefully there's not much damage. I'll wait til after the first mow to reseed if necessary.
Click to expand...

If they have roots into the soil then they will stand right on up to take in that sunlight once it hits them.


----------



## zeus201

Chris1 said:


> I am really interested to see how the Pangea performs


Me too! Like @lawntips , this will be maintained reel low. My biggest concern will be next year and keeping up with water. Town is expanding faster than the current water system can keep up with and struggled with demand this summer. I am hoping they just don't ought right ban watering next year and at least let us irrigate once a week or twice a week. The ban wrecked my barely year old Mazama mono....felt like I lost at least 50% of the stand.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Any of you local guys looking to upgrade your spreader?

https://www.siteone.com/en/092807-lesco-broadcast-spreader-50-lb-capacity/p/23988

I bought it 15 months ago - has served me right. Only thing I've done is grease the fittings. Paid just around $275 for it. Willing to part ways for $100.

And no - I'm not done doing lawn care - just looking at other options.


----------



## Di3soft

@JerseyGreens I jump on that deal, but way too far away hah


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> Any of you local guys looking to upgrade your spreader?
> 
> https://www.siteone.com/en/092807-lesco-broadcast-spreader-50-lb-capacity/p/23988
> 
> I bought it 15 months ago - has served me right. Only thing I've done is grease the fittings. Paid just around $275 for it. Willing to part ways for $100.
> 
> And no - I'm not done doing lawn care - just looking at other options.


Just curious, why are you getting rid of it? I have the same one.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Thinking about building this

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=27


----------



## Carlson

Put 4lb of urea out in the front yard today. I started out with my Wizz spreader, but the batteries went dead on the first pass so I had to load up my Lesco. I gotta say that finding the right rate with that small an amount of fert was a pain - started low and went up 1-2 at a time until it actually started flowing.

Fingers crossed for some good growth. I think next weekend (maybe the 12th) I'm gonna do a round of GreenPop on the whole yard to get another .25lb N and get some extra P down while I'm at it. Then back to urea for a few more weeks.


----------



## Carlson

JerseyGreens said:


> Thinking about building this
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=27


As a spreadermate owner myself I fully support this decision. :thumbup:


----------



## JerseyGreens

Carlson said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thinking about building this
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=27
> 
> 
> 
> As a spreadermate owner myself I fully support this decision. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

What spreader did you end up using in your build?

And since my Swardman order got cancelled I'm getting wifey on board with using some of those "lawn funds" for other toys...ha!


----------



## Carlson

JerseyGreens said:


> Carlson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thinking about building this
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=27
> 
> 
> 
> As a spreadermate owner myself I fully support this decision. :thumbup:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What spreader did you end up using in your build?
> 
> And since my Swardman order got cancelled I'm getting wifey on board with using some of those "lawn funds" for other toys...ha!
Click to expand...

80lb Lesco.


I did build a Connor-style one 18 months or so ago on an Earthway spreader, but the earthway being somewhat lighter-duty than the lesco, coupled with the top-heavy way I had it rigged up basically killed the spreader itself after the months of use.


----------



## JerseyGreens

ah she's a beaut - got a lot of the guys watching this forum starting to think about their next Birthday presents...

or for @bf7 maybe a wedding present!


----------



## Carlson

@JerseyGreens I can't recommend the spreadermate enough - the tank shape is really great for keeping the center of gravity at a manageable height.

If you're gonna go DIY I'd make sure to get a really well-built spreader for the platform - the 80lb lesco is great; having owned a spyker before, I think they would do very well too. The Earthway would work if the plastic were a bit thicker or maybe if the tank was smaller - the 12gal tank was too heavy.


----------



## Zcape35

That thing is sharp! I have the Lesco spreader but I opted to do a 2 boom nozzle using Teejets. I already have a nice battery backpack so figured I'd use it. At least I can do 40" passes with this setup. Once the pieces come in the mail that is. Ha


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> ah she's a beaut - got a lot of the guys watching this forum starting to think about their next Birthday presents...
> 
> or for @bf7 maybe a wedding present!


LOL already asked for a zero turn...DENIED.


----------



## g-man

@JerseyGreens which beach did you pick for your unplanned vacation?


----------



## Di3soft

I dont know if I asked this before or not but would an application of FAS be beneficial to the renovation?


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> @JerseyGreens which beach did you pick for your unplanned vacation?


Hey brother - no beach, just moving to a different project at the moment.

Building a spray rig - takes my mind off of the lawn.

You would be proud - I did not walk the lawn with a flashlight last night. I was very proud of myself.


----------



## mmaer

A little late to this party... but I'm enjoying this thread, and I felt like making a post outside of my journal today. Just got home from work to find this...










Even my wife (who has been spending most of her free time telling me that I've lost my damn mind because of this reno) showed a brief moment of weakness and came down to look at the first green babies! I tried explaining that it was the PRG and that the KBG would only be a few days behind, and it was about at that point in the conversation where she checked out.


----------



## Zcape35

@mmaer my wife is exactly the same. She's kind enough to listen to the babble but she could care less about the specifics. Sometimes she will ask me a question and once I start answering it I can see the regret in her eyes. Lmao


----------



## mmaer

@Zcape35 They put up with a lot I suppose. I tell her that I know it's a sickness.


----------



## bf7

@JerseyGreens @shadowlawnjutsu are you still getting the grassy weeds? These things are popping up everywhere now after the heavy rain. Can anyone identify this? It's the only type of weed in my yard. At this point there are few enough and easy to spot that I can hand pull them if Tenacity won't work.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

bf7 said:


> @JerseyGreens @shadowlawnjutsu are you still getting the grassy weeds? These things are popping up everywhere now after the heavy rain. Can anyone identify this? It's the only type of weed in my yard. At this point there are few enough and easy to spot that I can hand pull them if Tenacity won't work.


I get that too. Not sure if it's exactly the same but I get that from the area where I used some straw to prevent erosion. You didn't use straw right? When I pull it out, some times it still has seed. It doesn't look like crab grass. Probably daligrass? I hope tenacity can take care of that.


----------



## bf7

@shadowlawnjutsu I didn't use straw, thinking they came in my topsoil. I guess watering once a day wasn't enough to fallow them out. Yours does look similar...


----------



## Carlson

@bf7 kinda looks like annual ryegrass


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Carlson said:


> @bf7 kinda looks like annual ryegrass


I agree, kinda look like annual rye, @bf7. Mine is definitely not annual rye. Something like daligrass or johnsongrass.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Crazy seeing purple on the radar coming for me again!



@OnTheLawn are you outside Philly?


----------



## bf7

@Carlson @shadowlawnjutsu ok thanks. Annual rye I can live with. And I don't see it on the Tenacity label so that would make sense that it isn't getting wiped out. If anyone can positively say it's not poa triv, I would be extremely happy.

@JerseyGreens hope you don't get hit too hard. Keep rolling with the punches man.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> @Carlson @shadowlawnjutsu ok thanks. Annual rye I can live with. And I don't see it on the Tenacity label so that would make sense that it isn't getting wiped out. If anyone can positively say it's not poa triv, I would be extremely happy.
> 
> @JerseyGreens hope you don't get hit too hard. Keep rolling with the punches man.


.9 inches in 1 hour. Let's see what it looks like tomorrow morning. Grass blades aren't long enough to fall over but let's see how much if any uprooted.

5 days from 2nd seeding. Would hope most of that wedged itself into the soil but who knows!


----------



## Zcape35

@bf7 that doesn't look like Triv to me. 
Good lord @JerseyGreens! I hope everything is fine.


----------



## Di3soft

Out of curiosity took a plug from the renovation and roots looking to be about 3" already unless I don't know what I'm looking at haha, also soil is nice an moist 1/4 below the top with irrigation at 530am for 10 minutes and 4 minutes at 2pm.



Got a little bleaching from last Saturday's tenacity.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> Out of curiosity took a plug from the renovation and roots looking to be about 3" already unless I don't know what I'm looking at haha, also soil is nice an moist 1/4 below the top with irrigation at 530am for 10 minutes and 4 minutes at 2pm.
> 
> 
> 
> Got a little bleaching from last Saturday's tenacity.


That's some pretty soil my man.


----------



## bf7

Di3soft said:


> Out of curiosity took a plug from the renovation and roots looking to be about 3" already unless I don't know what I'm looking at haha, also soil is nice an moist 1/4 below the top with irrigation at 530am for 10 minutes and 4 minutes at 2pm.
> 
> 
> 
> Got a little bleaching from last Saturday's tenacity.


I would kill for this soil.


----------



## Di3soft

@JerseyGreens @bf7

It looks nice but 6" below is solid clay or so I'm told by the neighbors


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> @JerseyGreens @bf7
> 
> It looks nice but 6" below is solid clay or so I'm told by the neighbors


6 inches down?? My clay is about 1.5inches down!


----------



## Di3soft

JerseyGreens said:


> Di3soft said:
> 
> 
> 
> @JerseyGreens @bf7
> 
> It looks nice but 6" below is solid clay or so I'm told by the neighbors
> 
> 
> 
> 6 inches down?? My clay is about 1.5inches down!
Click to expand...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I thought 6" was bad guess I don't have it too bad


----------



## Di3soft

Di3soft said:


> I dont know if I asked this before or not but would an application of FAS be beneficial to the renovation?


I'm going to bump this cause it quickly got buried


----------



## Carlson

bf7 said:


> @Carlson @shadowlawnjutsu ok thanks. Annual rye I can live with. And I don't see it on the Tenacity label so that would make sense that it isn't getting wiped out. If anyone can positively say it's not poa triv, I would be extremely happy.
> 
> @JerseyGreens hope you don't get hit too hard. Keep rolling with the punches man.


Poa triv doesn't have those ridged leaves so I think you're good.


----------



## MJR12284

🚨 GREEN BABIES ALERT! 🚨 😃

Hoping this flash rainstorm doesn't wash away too much!


----------



## bf7

Carlson said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Carlson @shadowlawnjutsu ok thanks. Annual rye I can live with. And I don't see it on the Tenacity label so that would make sense that it isn't getting wiped out. If anyone can positively say it's not poa triv, I would be extremely happy.
> 
> @JerseyGreens hope you don't get hit too hard. Keep rolling with the punches man.
> 
> 
> 
> Poa triv doesn't have those ridged leaves so I think you're good.
Click to expand...

 :dancenana: :dancenana: :dancenana: :dancenana: :dancenana: :dancenana: :dancenana:


----------



## bf7

MJR12284 said:


> 🚨 GREEN BABIES ALERT! 🚨 😃
> 
> Hoping this flash rainstorm doesn't wash away too much!


Congrats!!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Question for the group - in your experience how much have you really seen one KBG seedling spread?

I've heard large dinner plate.
I've heard 2 inch by 2 inch max.

Realistically though - give us some of your on the ground observations over the years.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Question for the group - in your experience how much have you really seen one KBG seedling spread?
> 
> I've heard large dinner plate.
> I've heard 2 inch by 2 inch max.
> 
> Realistically though - give us some of your on the ground observations over the years.


This is a good question. I'm also wondering how long does kbg spreads to know how much more seed I'm gonna put down. I watched a @wardconnor video where he mentioned that you have to wait 24 months for KBG. And the spot where he was while mentioning that is a very large bare spot, larger than a dinner plate I think.


----------



## gm560

JerseyGreens said:


> Question for the group - in your experience how much have you really seen one KBG seedling spread?
> 
> I've heard large dinner plate.
> I've heard 2 inch by 2 inch max.
> 
> Realistically though - give us some of your on the ground observations over the years.


It can spread a lot. I don't know about a single seed but here is what my lawn looked like spring after my reno. I only have images from the spring but I can tell you the germination in this area in the fall was sparse.



Here you can see the progress made in 4 days.....



and then after 10 weeks....



So I think I know where this question is coming from. You have spots that look thin compared to others and you are wondering.... is this ever going to fill in. The answer is unequivocally, yes. Given time, water, and food, it will fill in.


----------



## JerseyGreens

gm560 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Question for the group - in your experience how much have you really seen one KBG seedling spread?
> 
> I've heard large dinner plate.
> I've heard 2 inch by 2 inch max.
> 
> Realistically though - give us some of your on the ground observations over the years.
> 
> 
> 
> It can spread a lot. I don't know about a single seed but here is what my lawn looked like spring after my reno. I only have images from the spring but I can tell you the germination in this area in the fall was sparse.
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the progress made in 4 days.....
> 
> 
> 
> and then after 10 weeks....
> 
> 
> 
> So I think I know where this question is coming from. You have spots that look thin compared to others and you are wondering.... is this ever going to fill in. The answer is unequivocally, yes. Given time, water, and food, it will fill in.
Click to expand...

Beautiful time lapse of progress.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Had major washout yet again last night. 1inch of rain fell in less than an hour.

Had large amounts of seedlings, ripe seed and starter mulch on driveway and sidewalk.







I did this in full sunlight so it makes it seems a lot worse than it is. Before yesterday there were seedlings everywhere when looking with a flashlight.

Growing seed in those sandy tributaries is rough as it dries out quickly. The other grass is growing because it's where the peat moss ended up. I still see seed in the sand but unless I water 1min per zone every hour I don't see it coming in there. Unless the healthy stuff spreads and covers it later.

Now, I've thrown a ton of seed on this Reno...should I throw any more down.

Or get a beach house for the weekend per @g-man


----------



## synergy0852

I vote beach house :thumbup:


----------



## bf7

Ouch. I would probably throw some seed at that this weekend, unless you can still see a lot of seeds. What % of seedlings do you think were uprooted roughly?


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Ouch. I would probably throw some seed at that this weekend, unless you can still see a lot of seeds. What % of seedlings do you think were uprooted roughly?


Lost - maybe 5% nothing close to like the original washout.

Moved around? Probably significant amounts of the reseed.

I have to remind myself that I seeded 2 weeks ago...


----------



## synergy0852

Here's my two cents going through something similar. If you can see the grass at night and it looks fairly dense don't throw more seed. If it's bare at night with the flashlight throw more.

On my reno the spots that look bare during the day that show decent density at night are slowly but surely thickening day by day. I tossed more seed on those areas last Sunday and they haven't popped yet today and I'm now seeing I probably didn't need to toss that seed in those areas. Other areas where I barely see any at night I can't wait for that seed to pop as they just aren't filling in.

That's my $.02 FWIW.


----------



## Slingblade_847

gm560 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Question for the group - in your experience how much have you really seen one KBG seedling spread?
> 
> I've heard large dinner plate.
> I've heard 2 inch by 2 inch max.
> 
> Realistically though - give us some of your on the ground observations over the years.
> 
> 
> 
> It can spread a lot. I don't know about a single seed but here is what my lawn looked like spring after my reno. I only have images from the spring but I can tell you the germination in this area in the fall was sparse.
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see the progress made in 4 days.....
> 
> 
> 
> and then after 10 weeks....
> 
> 
> 
> So I think I know where this question is coming from. You have spots that look thin compared to others and you are wondering.... is this ever going to fill in. The answer is unequivocally, yes. Given time, water, and food, it will fill in.
Click to expand...

Would you say KBG needs to reach "maturity" before spreading? Or will you see spread in the same growing season of seed down?


----------



## Lust4Lawn

@JerseyGreens Oh man! Keep your head up Bluebank brother!


----------



## MJR12284

What a difference a day makes! None of this was here yesterday. Woke up this morning to some nice green fuzz across the lawn. Unless any of you disagree, I'm counting tomorrow as DAG 1!

(The bottom portion of this pic is just as "thick" as the top portion but it's not coming through due to the angle of my pic - the top portion is on a slope below my feet so easier to see the germ)


----------



## OnTheLawn

@MJR12284 nice and congrats! Looks like a nice even spread so early on, which is a great sign.


----------



## bf7

MJR12284 said:


> What a difference a day makes! None of this was here yesterday. Woke up this morning to some nice green fuzz across the lawn. Unless any of you disagree, I'm counting tomorrow as DAG 1!
> 
> (The bottom portion of this pic is just as "thick" as the top portion but it's not coming through due to the angle of my pic - the top portion is on a slope below my feet so easier to see the germ)


Good stuff. That should be the TF. Most of us are seeing KBG germ on day 6, so it will follow suit soon.

That looks like a nice even spread. I would agree with starting DAG.


----------



## JerseyGreens

From a friend with a mono BlueBank lawn. This settles how much this cultivar can spread. Imagine if this got some N and was cut to further spread!?

I'm impressed.


----------



## gm560

Slingblade_847 said:


> Would you say KBG needs to reach "maturity" before spreading? Or will you see spread in the same growing season of seed down?


The next spring is when it takes off.


----------



## Carlson

The area around my new patio was completely bare when I did my overseed in the back. Might still need another lb or two (or maybe just some urea), but I got a mow in yesterday and after this morning's watering I think it's starting to look pretty good.


----------



## bf7

@Carlson do you have any night shots of the TF?

I was really digging this one I got last night.



The second best time I'm finding for pics is the morning with some dew on the blades to add sparkle. Almost tricks me into thinking I have usable yard again. The euphoria is quickly taken away when the sun comes up.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> @Carlson do you have any night shots of the TF?
> 
> I was really digging this one I got last night.
> 
> 
> 
> The second best time I'm finding for pics is the morning with some dew on the blades to add sparkle. Almost tricks me into thinking I have usable yard again. The euphoria is quickly taken away when the sun comes up.


Looks like these guys skipped the pout phase man!


----------



## Carlson

bf7 said:


> @Carlson do you have any night shots of the TF?
> 
> I was really digging this one I got last night.
> 
> 
> 
> The second best time I'm finding for pics is the morning with some dew on the blades to add sparkle. Almost tricks me into thinking I have usable yard again. The euphoria is quickly taken away when the sun comes up.


I'll see if I can grab some this evening. Totally agree that the morning dew & moist soil are the best-case-scenario for daytime photos.

Quite a striking shot you got! How tall now?


----------



## bf7

@JerseyGreens @Carlson these guys are about 1.5". Does that qualify as post-pout? :dunno:


----------



## Carlson

bf7 said:


> @JerseyGreens @Carlson these guys are about 1.5". Does that qualify as post-pout? :dunno:


If not you're getting close. Maybe pick a specific spot and check the height day-to-day to see if the growth rate is picking up.

Either way, another 0.5" and you'll be mowing! :thumbup:


----------



## Carlson

Second mow for the front yard - actually mowed everywhere at the same height, front and back, which was very satisfying.

The 1.75" height was a little low for a few of the sloped areas along my front walk and I wound up causing a few divots. Good thing I'm throwing down some extra seed this weekend... I'll probably start mowing at 2.25" next mow.


----------



## Baretta

Awesome topic...some great funny comments.

@bf7 There's nothing like getting up in the morning and looking out the window and taking in the view how great the young lawn looks with morning dew on it. It just fools you into looking fuller.


----------



## Di3soft

Mow 3 in the books, 31 days since seed down and 22 DAG. Sprayed FAS last night to try it. After mowing sprayed urea at .25 per k. Will go to .5 every other week. Really hoping it'll start filling in soon. "Supposed" to get a good amount of rain this coming week so maybe that'll help as well


----------



## Di3soft

Welp I meant to post this is my lawn journal. Guess it's here too now


----------



## Di3soft

Have I mentioned my absolute hatred of oscillating sprinklers. Tiny breeze and it goes everywhere.


----------



## Slingblade_847

Di3soft said:


> Have I mentioned my absolute hatred of oscillating sprinklers. Tiny breeze and it goes everywhere.


Don't even get me started on oscillators!! My whole system was based on oscillating sprinklers, and I thought the biggest problem was the inconsistency with the slightest breeze. Come to find out the water pushed by the breeze was destroying everything in its path. Now I'm doing hand watering.


----------



## bf7

@Baretta you are absolutely right. It's like everyday is Christmas morning.

Going out at night with the flashlight and staring out the window in the morning are my guilty vices right now.

In other words, lawn porn.

Then in the afternoon, I'm like, what the heck did I do to my yard? This looks terrible.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Carlson said:


> Second mow for the front yard - actually mowed everywhere at the same height, front and back, which was very satisfying.
> 
> The 1.75" height was a little low for a few of the sloped areas along my front walk and I wound up causing a few divots. Good thing I'm throwing down some extra seed this weekend... I'll probably start mowing at 2.25" next mow.


This looks amazing! Can't wait to mow my grass again.


----------



## Baretta

bf7 said:


> @Baretta you are absolutely right. *It's like everyday is Christmas morning.*
> 
> Going out at night with the flashlight and staring out the window in the morning are my guilty vices right now.
> 
> In other words, lawn porn.
> 
> *Then in the afternoon, I'm like, what the heck did I do to my yard? This looks terrible. *


Exactly.

Me morning. :dancenana:

Me afternoon. :fool:


----------



## JerseyGreens

For those that are mowing - how do you handle different thick/thin areas... this is more specifically for the KBG crew.

50% of the yard is coming up for a cut this week but the other half is still coming in.

Just cut where I deem necessary and skip the rest? I'm using a manual reel mower.
Same question comes to mind once I start feeding - but I can't keep track of feeding different areas....all these babies are getting fed whether they like it or not!


----------



## synergy0852

I treated it all the same. No ill effects so far.


----------



## Carlson

Did my final touchups on Sunday... Here's around the patio

Surely I can't be the only one who gets a bit of anxiety when having no seed left for additional just-in-case repairs?


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> For those that are mowing - how do you handle different thick/thin areas... this is more specifically for the KBG crew.
> 
> 50% of the yard is coming up for a cut this week but the other half is still coming in.
> 
> Just cut where I deem necessary and skip the rest? I'm using a manual reel mower.
> Same question comes to mind once I start feeding - but I can't keep track of feeding different areas....all these babies are getting fed whether they like it or not!


Mowing I'm going to treat everything the same. Also using manual reel so not worried about crushing babies.

I will be more careful with N. Waiting at least 2 weeks after germ of re-seed. Will probably wait until everything is out of pout. Too much is coming from the re-seed to risk burning them too early.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> For those that are mowing - how do you handle different thick/thin areas... this is more specifically for the KBG crew.
> 
> 50% of the yard is coming up for a cut this week but the other half is still coming in.
> 
> Just cut where I deem necessary and skip the rest? I'm using a manual reel mower.
> Same question comes to mind once I start feeding - but I can't keep track of feeding different areas....all these babies are getting fed whether they like it or not!


Just like @synergy0852, treated them all the same and that goes for both fert and mowing. I had to step on some of those grasses that are still too little. I just made sure that I wont slide on the mud that's why letting it dry before mowing helps.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Carlson said:


> Surely I can't be the only one who gets a bit of anxiety when having no seed left for additional just-in-case repairs?


Felt the same when I was planting rye grass. Still not at that point right now since I still have more left.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> For those that are mowing - how do you handle different thick/thin areas... this is more specifically for the KBG crew.
> 
> 50% of the yard is coming up for a cut this week but the other half is still coming in.
> 
> Just cut where I deem necessary and skip the rest? I'm using a manual reel mower.
> Same question comes to mind once I start feeding - but I can't keep track of feeding different areas....all these babies are getting fed whether they like it or not!
> 
> 
> 
> Mowing I'm going to treat everything the same. Also using manual reel so not worried about crushing babies.
> 
> I will be more careful with N. Waiting at least 2 weeks after germ of re-seed. Will probably wait until everything is out of pout. Too much is coming from the re-seed to risk burning them too early.
Click to expand...

Solid point. You can follow suit and make your first N app via Milo and lower the risk of burning the babies.

I'm sensing an early and cooler Fall around my ways so have to start feeding next week.


----------



## bf7

@JerseyGreens didn't even think of that. I might just hit it with milo in a couple weeks no matter what.

I haven't looked at our long term forecast but we are getting highs near 90 this week.


----------



## Di3soft

I started to spoon feed mine at .25N per k with urea two weeks ago, moving to .5N of urea every two weeks now. forecast around here looks really good for our grass now, hopefully the back yard comes back to life since I neglected it due to a very hot summer with almost no rain.


----------



## OnTheLawn

Germ results are gaining. Coverage looks even so far when I use the flashlight at night, but there seems to be a difference between the areas with full peat moss coverage and areas where some wash out occurred.

















The Mazama section under the tree has some signs of germ, but not nearly this much yet. I expected that, but figure by tomorrow night I should see some sprouts coming through over the entire area.


----------



## bf7

OnTheLawn said:


> Germ results are gaining. Coverage looks even so far when I use the flashlight at night, but there seems to be a difference between the areas with full peat moss coverage and areas where some wash out occurred.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Mazama section under the tree has some signs of germ, but not nearly this much yet. I expected that, but figure by tomorrow night I should see some sprouts coming through over the entire area.


This happens to me every time it rains. The grass sprouts like crazy in the piles of washed up peat and leaves bare spots where it came from. So annoying.


----------



## Slingblade_847

bf7 said:


> This happens to me every time it rains. The grass sprouts like crazy in the piles of washed up peat and leaves bare spots where it came from. So annoying.


Same issue. And can't get peat to stick in certain areas. Oscillating sprinklers even causes washout of these areas. Almost like soil is to "slick" for peat to stick.


----------



## bf7

Slingblade_847 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This happens to me every time it rains. The grass sprouts like crazy in the piles of washed up peat and leaves bare spots where it came from. So annoying.
> 
> 
> 
> Same issue. And can't get peat to stick in certain areas. Oscillating sprinklers even causes washout of these areas. Almost like soil is to "slick" for peat to stick.
Click to expand...

Fortunately for me at least the peat sticks once the roots have had a few days to establish. The problem is not getting a heavy rain for those few days.

That must be one powerful sprinkler lol


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Survey: What fertilizer are you using for spoon feeding?

I did my first spoon feeding with my leftover scott's starter fert (24-25-4). I might buy my fert next week for my second feeding.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Granular Urea or AMS. I have both just depends on what I feel like using that particular week.

Also supplementing in some apps of CX GRN 8-1-8.


----------



## Squire515

I used x green 8-1-8 two weeks ago to apply .5lbs of N. It visibly made my lawn look great.

My plan is to use 23-0-20 From SSS to apply .25N every week from here on out.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Squire515 said:


> I used x green 8-1-8 two weeks ago to apply .5lbs of N. It visibly made my lawn look great.
> 
> My plan is to use 23-0-20 From SSS to apply .25N every week from here on out.


Did you buy the XGRN stuff locally?


----------



## bf7

I have starter fert (18-24-12), Hyr Brix (22-7-7), and urea (46-0-0) all on hand. Not sure when / what I'm going to put down yet. Playing it by ear. I want the majority of the lawn to be post-pout phase before I give it N.


----------



## MJR12284

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Survey: What fertilizer are you using for spoon feeding?
> 
> I did my first spoon feeding with my leftover scott's starter fert (24-25-4). I might buy my fert next week for my second feeding.


I was planning to use Urea but am now considering doing a Milo or starter fert based on what I'm seeing some other folks on here doing. I did some re-seeding about 1 week after my original seed down date so do I need to be worried about burning the recently re-seeded sections if I use Urea at 0.25lb per K rate? FWIW my soil test did not show any deficiencies but I did bring in a few inches of topsoil in some spots. I have 80/20 TTTF/KBG mix.


----------



## JerseyGreens

MJR12284 said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Survey: What fertilizer are you using for spoon feeding?
> 
> I did my first spoon feeding with my leftover scott's starter fert (24-25-4). I might buy my fert next week for my second feeding.
> 
> 
> 
> I was planning to use Urea but am now considering doing a Milo or starter fert based on what I'm seeing some other folks on here doing. I did some re-seeding about 1 week after my original seed down date so do I need to be worried about burning the recently re-seeded sections if I use Urea at 0.25lb per K rate? FWIW my soil test did not show any deficiencies but I did bring in a few inches of topsoil in some spots. I have 80/20 TTTF/KBG mix.
Click to expand...

No. If you are careful with your granular apps on regards to overlapping then that much N will not burn babies.

Some guys on here recommended hand spreaders for the Urea apps since it's so little by weight.


----------



## MJR12284

Good looking out @JerseyGreens! My new backpack sprayer arrived this week so I am going to dissolve Urea and spray it. Can probably have even more control over it this way.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> MJR12284 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Survey: What fertilizer are you using for spoon feeding?
> 
> I did my first spoon feeding with my leftover scott's starter fert (24-25-4). I might buy my fert next week for my second feeding.
> 
> 
> 
> I was planning to use Urea but am now considering doing a Milo or starter fert based on what I'm seeing some other folks on here doing. I did some re-seeding about 1 week after my original seed down date so do I need to be worried about burning the recently re-seeded sections if I use Urea at 0.25lb per K rate? FWIW my soil test did not show any deficiencies but I did bring in a few inches of topsoil in some spots. I have 80/20 TTTF/KBG mix.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. If you are careful with your granular apps on regards to overlapping then that much N will not burn babies.
> 
> Some guys on here recommended hand spreaders for the Urea apps since it's so little by weight.
Click to expand...

I don't trust myself to not overlap / over-apply lol

I can already see that "oh sh*t" moment playing out when I'm through the first 4 gallons and I've only covered 1k sq ft.


----------



## Squire515

JerseyGreens said:


> Squire515 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used x green 8-1-8 two weeks ago to apply .5lbs of N. It visibly made my lawn look great.
> 
> My plan is to use 23-0-20 From SSS to apply .25N every week from here on out.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you buy the XGRN stuff locally?
Click to expand...

No I bought it from yardmastery.com for $60/45lbs. Do you know anywhere local that has a good selection of fertilizer?

I've been to that siteone off of US 22. They had a decent selection.


----------



## bf7

Survey: when is everyone doing 2nd Tenacity app? Are you basing timing off of seed down date or DAG?

I'm getting a lot of crabgrass now and I feel like the heavy washouts broke my Tenacity barrier in certain areas with the soil runoff.


----------



## OnTheLawn

Second tenacity app is labeled for four weeks after emergence, so 28 DAG.


----------



## bf7

OnTheLawn said:


> Second tenacity app is labeled for four weeks after emergence, so 28 DAG.


Would that be 28 days after first germ or 28 days after everything germs? I did some pretty heavy re-seeding. Can Tenacity harm seedlings that are younger than 28 days?


----------



## bf7

After reading the label again, I think I'm going to wait until everything (including re-seed) has been up for 28 days. That would put me over a month from now, at the soonest. Ugh.

_Avoid spraying on newly germinated turfgrass plants. Wait until the newly germinated turf has been mowed two times or four weeks after emergence (whichever is longer) before making a postemergence application._


----------



## OnTheLawn

@bf7 it could potentially harm them. Here's the label recommendation:

" DO NOT spray on newly germinated turfgrass . Delay treatment until grass has been mowed 2-4 times and/or
4 weeks after emergence (whichever is longer) ."

Tenacity does affect even mature grass and can bleach the tips, so young grass is even more prone. New seedlings probably wouldn't be able to survive. Granted, every label builds in a buffer to avoid as many frivolous lawsuits as possible, so I would say 28 days after initial germ and you should be ok. If you're only like 1-2 weeks from when you reseeded, I'd say maybe push it out.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> OnTheLawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Second tenacity app is labeled for four weeks after emergence, so 28 DAG.
> 
> 
> 
> Would that be 28 days after first germ or 28 days after everything germs? I did some pretty heavy re-seeding. Can Tenacity harm seedlings that are younger than 28 days?
Click to expand...

I got a ton of crabgrass coming up too - easy to kill later, don't sweat it.

I'm going 45 DAG on my original DAG - basically adding another 15 days extra for any reseeding I did. And believe me I'm calibrating the heck out of my sprayer/nozzle with a few passes before applying.


----------



## bf7

@OnTheLawn thanks for the tips. I'm probably going to take the most conservative route and push it out another month or so. Too much invested at this point to screw up the KBG because of a few weeds that I can hand pull if I can't stand looking at them.

@JerseyGreens I like the 45 DAG plan. That would be about 34 days from now for me which roughly aligns with a month.

I'm actually more worried about the annual ryegrass because I don't think it can be controlled with selective herbicides. Picking them out like crazy.


----------



## TheFredge

Squire515 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Squire515 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used x green 8-1-8 two weeks ago to apply .5lbs of N. It visibly made my lawn look great.
> 
> My plan is to use 23-0-20 From SSS to apply .25N every week from here on out.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you buy the XGRN stuff locally?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I bought it from yardmastery.com for $60/45lbs. Do you know anywhere local that has a good selection of fertilizer?
> 
> I've been to that siteone off of US 22. They had a decent selection.
Click to expand...

@Squire515 If you don't mind a drive, Levitts in Parsippany has a great selection of ferts - including Carbon Earth products. They are the pro labeled ones (not the DIY labeled ones that can be found online) but they are the same products and formulations. If you go to their website - www.levittsllc.com - you won't see the CX stuff in their catalog, but it's because that is the old one from 2019. Also, the old catalog shows that they carry OceanGro, but when I was there recently, they said that they had another BioSolid fert instead (from NH/VT/MA - can't remember exactly). Hope this helps!


----------



## JerseyGreens

@bf7 annual ryegrass will die in the winter or next summer once it gets hot. It can't tolerate being cut short and is susceptible to disease.

We really need to be worrying about any Triv...that sutff is tricky to get out of a reno but lets not go there just yet.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> @bf7 annual ryegrass will die in the winter or next summer once it gets hot. It can't tolerate being cut short and is susceptible to disease.
> 
> We really need to be worrying about any Triv...that sutff is tricky to get out of a reno but lets not go there just yet.sloppy


Good to know! I just hate looking at them because they shoot up so fast and make my KBG look sloppy.

I have the same worries about triv but I'm not sure how to identify it.


----------



## TheFredge

Question for the group: I mowed low, aerated, overseeded, and spread a 21-22-4 starter fert with mesotrione on 8/31, and am pretty sure I got germination some time over Labor Day Weekend, but I was away - so I'm counting 9/7 as Day 1. That being said, I'm only 3 DAG, but my existing lawn is getting really long in certain spots and I'm afraid of it crowding out all the new seedlings.

Should I continue to let it grow so the seedlings are more established before the 1st mow, or should I do a quick mow this weekend to level the playing field?


----------



## JerseyGreens

TheFredge said:


> Question for the group: I mowed low, aerated, overseeded, and spread a 21-22-4 starter fert with mesotrione on 8/31, and am pretty sure I got germination some time over Labor Day Weekend, but I was away - so I'm counting 9/7 as Day 1. That being said, I'm only 3 DAG, but my existing lawn is getting really long in certain spots and I'm afraid of it crowding out all the new seedlings.
> 
> Should I continue to let it grow so the seedlings are more established before the 1st mow, or should I do a quick mow this weekend to level the playing field?


I'm a big believer of walking on baby grass - only the strong should survive.

It's your call if you want to mow it or not - just be careful not to do it when the ground is too wet.
Sharpen the blades.
No right angle type turns.


----------



## bf7

@TheFredge I've been walking and rolling all over my baby grass for the past 2 weeks. No ill effects. Like JerseyGreens said, be careful with the turns. Use a manual reel if you have one or can pick one up for cheap.

Next time for an overseed I would not apply nitrogen at seed down. It gives the existing grass a boost.


----------



## OnTheLawn

Gotta love a good peat washing. Looks like another storm could roll through today as well. I've put down some seed, but nothing major. I'll reevaluate next Thursday, which will be two weeks since seed down.

Also trying to figure out this crazy discrepancy in the germ. In the pic, the right side is towards the front. What I know for sure is that the entire lawn slopes that way and then that is the first part to get sun. I'm wondering if in the first rain we got there was some wash towards the front and then with the sun hitting that section first, I'm getting better germ there with increased coverage. Idk.


----------



## TheFredge

Thanks @JerseyGreens and @bf7. I think I am going to mow, but with the storms today, I'll wait until Saturday to dry out a bit.


----------



## JerseyGreens

OnTheLawn said:


> Gotta love a good peat washing. Looks like another storm could roll through today as well. I've put down some seed, but nothing major. I'll reevaluate next Thursday, which will be two weeks since seed down.
> 
> Also trying to figure out this crazy discrepancy in the germ. In the pic, the right side is towards the front. What I know for sure is that the entire lawn slopes that way and then that is the first part to get sun. I'm wondering if in the first rain we got there was some wash towards the front and then with the sun hitting that section first, I'm getting better germ there with increased coverage. Idk.


Welcome to the tributaries of peat moss club as I like to call it. You will be fine.


----------



## WyGuy

Really starting to look like a lawn now, about 20 DAG. Reseeded the bare spots last Saturday so should start seeing some germination in the next day or so.


----------



## JerseyGreens

WyGuy said:


> Really starting to look like a lawn now, about 20 DAG. Reseeded the bare spots last Saturday so should start seeing some germination in the next day or so.


Looks good. What did you plant?


----------



## WyGuy

JerseyGreens said:


> WyGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really starting to look like a lawn now, about 20 DAG. Reseeded the bare spots last Saturday so should start seeing some germination in the next day or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks good. What did you plant?
Click to expand...

100% Mazama. Only did the backyard this year, will tackle the front next fall.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Just wanted to share that this thread specifically for current renovators is a good idea -- quite a fun bunch of renovators currently, too!

Anyway, this morning I took the "Day 15" photos for our renovation. More details are in our Ken-n-Nancy's Lawn Journal 2020.

For convenience, I'm also including the three latest photos here:

"Lliac Area" as of 10 September 2020 (Day 15)









"Far End" Repair Area as of 10 September 2020 (Day 15):









Close-Up of a "Sparse Spot" in the "Lilac Area" as of 10 September 2020 (Day 15):


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Ugh. I was just finishing up posting the above update, when I happened to look out the window and saw that it suddenly looked very dark outside for the middle of the afternoon... Within two minutes, the rain was coming down in buckets.

We're now in the midst of a downpour... Seems like what has germinated to this point is what we're going to get, and what hasn't may very well be washing away!


----------



## Zcape35

Fingers crossed for you @ken-n-nancy. 
Thanks for joining in!


----------



## ken-n-nancy

OnTheLawn said:


> Gotta love a good peat washing. ...


Man, that photo looks familiar. After 1.3 inches of rain in 20 minutes yesterday, we've got some pics like that, too. Not quite sure what to do about the peat moss ripple piles. More thoughts in the Reno Day 16 Downpour entry of our lawn journal, but I wanted to let you know that you're not alone!

Closer View of "Ripples" Formed by Water-Moved Peat Moss on 2020-09-11 (Day 16):


----------



## bf7

The ripples are ugly and will make your yard look like the ocean floor for a while, but they eventually correct themselves via the grass spreading in between. The grass will grow faster where the peat moss is, so you will have green ripples too.

I keep adding a light layer of peat wherever I see bare soil and it's helping to blend everything. With each seedling you can get to germ, it gets easier to hold the peat / seeds in place.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Is this 100% KBG?

If so - do nothing. I threw down more seed but definitely did no raking at all in these areas.





Can't wait to show you guys the above once N hits it.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Damn guys the pout phase is for real.

So much of the grass is just stuck.

Does spoonfeeding N help it get out of the pout by any chance?


----------



## Slingblade_847

Ive heard you do not want to push it with N while in pout. This is where rubber hits the road and see if you can hold out. You want roots developing.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Slingblade_847 said:


> Ive heard you do not want to push it with N while in pout. This is where rubber hits the road and see if you can hold out. You want roots developing.


I wouldn't call spoon feeding 0.25 lbs N per K pushing it. Thanks for the heads up though. I'll have to look into this.


----------



## g-man

@JerseyGreens take another vacation.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> @JerseyGreens take another vacation.


No more left! :lol:


----------



## g-man

It's Saturday and Sunday. Visit the in-laws.


----------



## OnTheLawn

@JerseyGreens the pout phase is KBG getting its roots going and developing. Pushing N (any amount) will encourage top growth. If anything I'd say a bio stimulant, Humic, sea kelp, something along those lines to help the roots develop.


----------



## MJR12284

Updated my journal but wanted to get y'all opinion of my reno's progress so far. I'm really happy with it but this is my first reno and I'm not sure if I'm ahead, behind, or right where I should be given my seed blend (80/20 TTTF/KBG). Lol. I think it looks good but a few of the top-down pics look a little thin. But perhaps I'm just being impatient. I'm 9DAG.

What do you guys think?


----------



## JerseyGreens

@MJR12284 looks good!

Did you start feeding it yet?


----------



## MJR12284

Thanks @JerseyGreens!

I'm planning to start spoon feeding N this coming weekend (21DAG) but then you got me thinking about doing a balanced fertilizer with some Phos to help with root growth. These seedlings will need some strong roots to hold up to my crazy and very energetic dog!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Good idea waiting a week. Might get to sneak in a mow sometime this week as it's looking solid.

I'm pushing my fert app to next Sunday.

Some is out of pout. 
Some reseed is coming up. Overall good green haze in most areas.


----------



## bf7

MJR12284 said:


> Updated my journal but wanted to get y'all opinion of my reno's progress so far. I'm really happy with it but this is my first reno and I'm not sure if I'm ahead, behind, or right where I should be given my seed blend (80/20 TTTF/KBG). Lol. I think it looks good but a few of the top-down pics look a little thin. But perhaps I'm just being impatient. I'm 9DAG.
> 
> What do you guys think?


You have nothing to worry about buddy.

If you suffered from no washout, then you are probably ahead of schedule / right on par. If you had any meaningful washout, then you are apparently a grass growing god with powers I do not possess.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@bf7 how are you coming along?

My reseed is finally coming up all over the place.

A lot of my original seedlings are stuck at 1.5 inches.

Threw down some humichar yesterday. Got my first fert app weighed out and everything but just waiting to pull the trigger. After reading a few lawn reno journals it looks like 25-30 DASD was the norm for fall KBG renos.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

MJR12284 said:


> Updated my journal but wanted to get y'all opinion of my reno's progress so far. I'm really happy with it but this is my first reno and I'm not sure if I'm ahead, behind, or right where I should be given my seed blend (80/20 TTTF/KBG). Lol. I think it looks good but a few of the top-down pics look a little thin. But perhaps I'm just being impatient. I'm 9DAG.
> 
> What do you guys think?


Looking good. That looks like my KBG at 23 DAG. Did you already mow? I can see some stripes.


----------



## MJR12284

JerseyGreens said:


> Good idea waiting a week. Might get to sneak in a mow sometime this week as it's looking solid.
> 
> I'm pushing my fert app to next Sunday.
> 
> Some is out of pout.
> Some reseed is coming up. Overall good green haze in most areas.


With all the washout you had, I'm impressed with your germ so far. I mowed today but will probably mow again 21DAG right before I put down my Urea.


----------



## MJR12284

bf7 said:


> MJR12284 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Updated my journal but wanted to get y'all opinion of my reno's progress so far. I'm really happy with it but this is my first reno and I'm not sure if I'm ahead, behind, or right where I should be given my seed blend (80/20 TTTF/KBG). Lol. I think it looks good but a few of the top-down pics look a little thin. But perhaps I'm just being impatient. I'm 9DAG.
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have nothing to worry about buddy.
> 
> If you suffered from no washout, then you are probably ahead of schedule / right on par. If you had any meaningful washout, then you are apparently a grass growing god with powers I do not possess.
Click to expand...

Thanks man! Not a grass growing God by any means but I do admit to saying some prayers for good germ!


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> @bf7 how are you coming along?
> 
> My reseed is finally coming up all over the place.
> 
> A lot of my original seedlings are stuck at 1.5 inches.
> 
> Threw down some humichar yesterday. Got my first fert app weighed out and everything but just waiting to pull the trigger. After reading a few lawn reno journals it looks like 25-30 DASD was the norm for fall KBG renos.


I know you are chomping at the bit to throw down that N lol

Front yard is kicking a$$. Mowed at 2" yesterday and got nice clippings. It's already darker and more dense than most yards on my street.

Back is slowly coming along. Big germination from re-seed this weekend - like yours. Some parts will need a little seed but I'm largely content with it filling in. Since I am 14 days from re-seed, I expect a lot of progress this week.

Will post pics in my journal at some point this week.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Love it @bf7 happy to hear that the pout is done in the front buddy!


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> Love it @bf7 happy to hear that the pout is done in the front buddy!


Yes sir. Looking forward to your next update pics! I bet those washout channels are looking much greener.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Love it @bf7 happy to hear that the pout is done in the front buddy!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes sir. Looking forward to your next update pics! I bet those washout channels are looking much greener.
Click to expand...



New seeds are coming up in those channels. Slowly getting there.


----------



## nathan99218

Hello! I did a 80% *** and 20% rye. I'm 36 days in and it's moving so slow. I'm spoon feeding it with some some liquid fertilizers. It still looks patchy for me. Is it normal? I've mowed it 2 times with a manual reel at 3/4 of an inch.


----------



## g-man

@nathan99218 what fert and how much?


----------



## nathan99218

@g-man I am applying propeat 17-0-4 at .25 N per 1000 and mirimichigreen 9-0-1c at label rate witch is only 2oz per 1000. I have been switching between the two every other week. Liquid fertilizer is new to me this year. I'm pretty sure that 2oz rate is only .02 N per 1000. I honestly don't know if that is enough or not.


----------



## g-man

Clearly not enough. One is slow release. What else do you have? Anything fast release? Try to do 0.2ln of N/ksqft fast release weekly. Check the renovation guide.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Love it @bf7 happy to hear that the pout is done in the front buddy!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes sir. Looking forward to your next update pics! I bet those washout channels are looking much greener.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> New seeds are coming up in those channels. Slowly getting there.
Click to expand...

Money. If you can see stuff at night, just sit back and watch it grow.

When I shine my floodlight on the back yard at night, it almost looks like I have full coverage, so I'm just waiting and giving the new little guys some time before spooning. I would be feeding now if it weren't for the re-seed. I think the original stuff is ready for it (15 DAG). Stupid washouts.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Stupid washouts indeed.

I might pull a small core out of a growing area to take a pic of the pout phase.

Just curious as to what kind of business they are doing underground. It's just stuck which leads me to believe they like their new home/soil.


----------



## Carlson

Front yard reno today.


----------



## JerseyGreens

:thumbup:


----------



## JerseyGreens

This is how KBG crushes it when not overcrowded.

The plant in the foreground is probably a single seed absolutely loving it.



Trust me I have very thin, young seedlings as well. These guys in this one area are just loving life.

Hope that's not a weed though. :lol:


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> This is how KBG crushes it when not overcrowded.
> 
> The plant in the foreground is probably a single seed absolutely loving it.
> 
> 
> 
> Trust me I have very thin, young seedlings as well. These guys in this one area are just loving life.
> 
> Hope that's not a weed though. :lol:


Agreed the seedlings in the relatively bare spots are tillering like crazy. The overcrowded ones can't do anything.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Makes you wonder right, @bf7 - why the lawn gurus helping us were telling us to calm down after our washouts to see what comes up first before haphazardly throwing down seed right away.

What a journey this has been.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Propi and Azoxy don't have to be spaced out right?

I've tank mixed them before with no issues - so assume no issues applying one right after the other.

Seeing some fungus pressure on that close-up picture above. Want to get propi down ASAP.


----------



## synergy0852

You're good to put them down in top of each other Jersey.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> Makes you wonder right, @bf7 - why the lawn gurus helping us were telling us to calm down after our washouts to see what comes up first before haphazardly throwing down seed right away.
> 
> What a journey this has been.


I honestly don't know where I'd be now in this reno if not for this website and the gurus. Probably sobbing in a dumpster somewhere and wishing I could go back to the gly of no return.

Thank you gurus and fellow reno'ers.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> This is how KBG crushes it when not overcrowded.
> 
> The plant in the foreground is probably a single seed absolutely loving it.
> 
> 
> 
> Trust me I have very thin, young seedlings as well. These guys in this one area are just loving life.
> 
> Hope that's not a weed though. :lol:


That is one big grass plant. Look at all those tillers!


----------



## JerseyGreens

@shadowlawnjutsu that is BlueBank right there and it's about 50% of your lawn!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> @shadowlawnjutsu that is BlueBank right there and it's about 50% of your lawn!


Yes it is. I am actually loving how fast the bluebank spreads/thicken. I'll take a picture later. It looks thicker after 3 mows.


----------



## Baretta

Anyone know what the optimal HOC is to encourage tillering in young TTTF? I've been gradually raising the height from 1.5" to 2".


----------



## bf7

Baretta said:


> Anyone know what the optimal HOC is to encourage tillering in young TTTF? I've been gradually raising the height from 1.5" to 2".


I'll defer to @Carlson since he is the fescue expert here, but given the newer TTTF cultivars can tolerate lower HOCs, that sounds like a good range to me. I believe 1.5-2 is the optimal range for young KBG.


----------



## Carlson

Baretta said:


> Anyone know what the optimal HOC is to encourage tillering in young TTTF? I've been gradually raising the height from 1.5" to 2".


I did my first two or three cuts when the new grass hit 2.5" and cut to 1.75". Subsequent cuts have been at 2.25" from whatever height it gets to in 2-3 days between mows. I think so long as you are clipping some top growth off, the plant will get the message and start horizontal expansion.

I think the advice of "mow early, mow often" that you see around the forum holds true for fescue just as it does for kbg - we just shift to taller mows once things get established. It being autumn now I'm considering staying at 2.25 or maybe 2.75 for the rest of the season.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Just did my fourth mow yesterday. I always bag the clippings. When should I start mulching them?


----------



## Carlson

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Just did my fourth mow yesterday. I always bag the clippings. When should I start mulching them?


I've mulched from the first mow... :bd:


----------



## Zcape35

Yeah I pretty much always mulch unless I see a fungus issue.


----------



## g-man

@Baretta +1 to what @Carlson said. Try to keep it at 2in at first. When you mow a leaf, it gets a bit of injury and it won't grow that much. The plant still has energy, so it redirects that energy to other leaves. That's why mowing often is a good thing to do. Of course too often (daily) without sharp blades can be a problem too. The cut is not clean and doesn't not heal, so it looses moisture and it is a path for fungus.


----------



## Baretta

Thanks! @bf7 @Carlson @g-man Ok will keep it at 2" cutting twice a week. Going to try and reseed one last time so it shouldn't shade out as well.


----------



## nathan99218

g-man said:


> Clearly not enough. One is slow release. What else do you have? Anything fast release? Try to do 0.2ln of N/ksqft fast release weekly. Check the renovation guide.


I found some 29-0-4 fertilizer that I picked up at the co-op here. it's urea and only 4% of the bag is coated for slow release. I put that down today at .2 lbs per 1000. I'll probably stick to this fert for awhile. I guess I need to learn more about liquid fertilizers.


----------



## Di3soft

Put down xgrn 8-1-8 @ .5N per k on the renovation, didn't even think about that it's not fast release. I'm sure it'll be fine but it was one of those oh shit moments


----------



## g-man

@nathan99218 that should work. The coop should have cheap urea or ams too.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> Put down xgrn 8-1-8 @ .5N per k on the renovation, didn't even think about that it's not fast release. I'm sure it'll be fine but it was one of those oh s--- moments


You will be fine. It's 6% fast release and 2% slow.

You put down 0.375 lbs N per K of fast release.


----------



## Di3soft

JerseyGreens said:


> Di3soft said:
> 
> 
> 
> Put down xgrn 8-1-8 @ .5N per k on the renovation, didn't even think about that it's not fast release. I'm sure it'll be fine but it was one of those oh s--- moments
> 
> 
> 
> You will be fine. It's 6% fast release and 2% slow.
> 
> You put down 0.375 lbs N per K of fast release.
Click to expand...

Oh that's good to know when I looked at the label for some reason I read it the opposite


----------



## g-man

In my experience, it is slow release. The label does list the percent of ams, but it is into a homogeneous prill with the chicken poop biochar stuff. The biochar holds on to it and does a slow release.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> In my experience, it is slow release. The label does list the percent of ams, but it is into a homogeneous prill with the chicken poop biochar stuff. The biochar holds on to it and does a slow release.


I plan on using some once I start feeding.

Do you recommend I hit it with AMS a few days before or after the XGRN app? Thinking 0.25 lbs N from XGRN and .15 lbs N from AMS. Spaced out 4 days apart that particular week.


----------



## g-man

For those doing renovations, temps are dropping plus you likely have some grass with tillers. Start adjusting your irrigation schedule. You likely don't need a 6am watering or a 6pm one. A longer 11am might be enough to handle the afternoon until the next day. The roots are likely +2in deep, so they can handle some top surface drying. No, you cant do weekly irrigation. Don't let it get too dry and if you see signs of wilting, just increase the frequency. Each lawn, turf density, soil type, weather is different, so no easy standard answer here.


----------



## g-man

@JerseyGreens I used XGRN during my reno, but I don't recall rates or timing. I liked how it worked.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Thank you for the heads up @g-man !

Also those that reseeded due to washout. Be careful with the irrigation - even with my reseeding I've cut out my 8am watering. Go straight to 10am / 2pm and 6pm. It's still moist in the AM due to the cool nights.

Don't feel like you need to be at every 2-3 hours since you reseeded.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> @JerseyGreens I used XGRN during my reno, but I don't recall rates or timing. I liked how it worked.


Roger that. I'll look through your reno journal. I recall you supplementing with AMS the week you did XGRN for a quicker uptake.


----------



## Di3soft

So I'm 32 DAG, i will be going away for a week, irrigation will be running once a day while I'm gone. With this whole week of rain we had I wasn't able to mow and when I did I deff broken the 1/3rd rule by quite a lot. I have T-Nex and was wondering if it would harm the grass if this coming Sunday I would spray at a low rate of .25oz per k. I don't have any fungus issues to worry about. I've already mowed 5 times and the label says after 2 mows its good to apply. Would there be any downside?


----------



## Carlson

JerseyGreens said:


> Thank you for the heads up @g-man !
> 
> Also those that reseeded due to washout. Be careful with the irrigation - even with my reseeding I've cut out my 8am watering. Go straight to 10am / 2pm and 6pm. It's still moist in the AM due to the cool nights.
> 
> Don't feel like you need to be at every 2-3 hours since you reseeded.


+100

I'm down to 1x per day on most of my yard at this point - even most of the areas I had to do touch-up seeding on.


----------



## JerseyGreens

How long were some of you KBG guys stuck in the pout phase?

Went to cut my front lawn again and no clippings.
Weird because the hell stripe definitely has clippings coming from it. Same watering/soil/temps...

Have no idea whats going on.

I've heard the gurus here on other posts say that a longer pout may actually be beneficial - the lawn is doing more business under the soil versus up top.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> How long were some of you KBG guys stuck in the pout phase?
> 
> Went to cut my front lawn again and no clippings.
> Weird because the hell stripe definitely has clippings coming from it. Same watering/soil/temps...
> 
> Have no idea whats going on.
> 
> I've heard the gurus here on other posts say that a longer pout may actually be beneficial - the lawn is doing more business under the soil versus up top.


I am in a similar situation. The front is on its second mow and the back is just going nowhere. The only thing I can think of is that washout was worse in the back.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long were some of you KBG guys stuck in the pout phase?
> 
> Went to cut my front lawn again and no clippings.
> Weird because the hell stripe definitely has clippings coming from it. Same watering/soil/temps...
> 
> Have no idea whats going on.
> 
> I've heard the gurus here on other posts say that a longer pout may actually be beneficial - the lawn is doing more business under the soil versus up top.
> 
> 
> 
> I am in a similar situation. The front is on its second mow and the back is just going nowhere. The only thing I can think of is that washout was worse in the back.
Click to expand...

Yeah my front looks a lot like your back. Thin blades and just slow rolling - taking it's good old time.

Weather is getting cold...wondering if I should fert to get it to snap out of it. I'm at DAG: 16


----------



## Baretta

Any sense in spreading more TTTF seed? I applied more September 3rd but really hasn't taken. Much of it is sitting on mated peat. I could try and loosen with Groundskeeper rake. Other options to seed and roll it again or cut often and see how it plays out. What says you?

Oh...and the crow is fake.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> How long were some of you KBG guys stuck in the pout phase?
> 
> ...
> 
> I've heard the gurus here on other posts say that a longer pout may actually be beneficial - the lawn is doing more business under the soil versus up top.


While KBG is in the "pout" phase, it is definitely growing. It's just that all the growth is root development underground, so you can't see it and appreciate it.

I don't recall exactly who, or even where I saw it, but I remember somebody posting a photo they took of their little 3/4" tall KBG seedlings that they had intentionally uprooted to take a picture. That little 3/4" seedling had roots that went down about 5 inches into the soil. It was like an iceberg -- the green blades above were only a small fraction of the total size of the plant.

Anyway, that's what is going on while the KBG is "pouting" -- it's developing roots that will enable the above-ground growth to take off, once the root system is sufficiently developed.

As to how long the underground growth takes, I've found it varies a lot. I do think the underground growth happens faster in sunnier areas (i.e. sunny areas won't "pout" as long). Is your "hell stripe" sunnier than the rest of the lawn?

Looking back at our prior KBG renovations, in our 2015 side yard renovation, we seeded late (9 September 2015) and the side lawn is mostly shade, getting only a few hours of sun (at most) with some sections never getting unfiltered sun. It didn't get tall enough to mow before winter arrived. Our first mowing wasn't until 9 May 2016. So, our "pout" lasted for 8 months.

*If your lawn hasn't been pouting for 8 months yet, then don't worry, you're doing better than we did!* 
Ours ended up fine. You'll get there.

About a week after the grass had it's first cut -- 8 months after seed-down -- May 2016:









In our 2018 renovation of our front lawn, with a seed-down date of 24 August 2018, our first mow was on 21 September 2018 at a 2.25" HOC, and only cut grass in a 10-foot wide strip of grass that was the sunniest.

Mailbox View as of 2018-09-22 (Day 28):









Bottom line:

If your KBG is ready for a first mow within 5 weeks of seed-down, you're doing awesome.
Even your grass isn't tall enough for a first mow before winter, you can still have an awesome outcome!



JerseyGreens said:


> Weather is getting cold...wondering if I should fert to get it to snap out of it. I'm at DAG: 16


Short answer is "no."

Longer answer is "No, don't apply fert to get it to snap out of it."

Oh, and I wonder if you really know what cold is down there in New Jersey. Want to come up to New Hampshire for a winter?

It'll be okay. Growing KBG is for the patient. If you can't deal with it, seed PRG next time.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Oh, and for those of you with KBG worrying about adding seed to the "bare spots." Take a look at that picture in the posting above showing the "mailbox view" in September of 2018, one month after seed-down. There are some pretty bad bare spots along the edge of the driveway, aren't there?

Well, below is the photo taken at the end of the following spring. No additional seed was added. It's KBG. It will spread.

Mailbox View as of 2019-07-13 (Day 323):


----------



## g-man

ken-n-nancy said:


> It'll be okay. Growing KBG is for the patient. If you can't deal with it, seed PRG next time.


^ +100 or @JerseyGreens get sod.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@g-man mono KBG. Not possible with Sod. Tough crowd today...


----------



## Slingblade_847

@ken-n-nancy i think you added some much needed relief to this forum with your mailbox photos.

It was @Di3soft who posted the "ice berg". Lol.

@JerseyGreens you are not alone on pouting. My front yard just got out and I'm at 21 DAG. Other sections of my yard are exactly how @ken-n-nancy described. I'd say 65% of my Reno is coming out of pout and doing well. 20% remains in pout, 15% doesn't look like it's even established the pout yet.

Here is my best area which was mowed at 21DAG:


----------



## JerseyGreens

ken-n-nancy said:


> As to how long the underground growth takes, I've found it varies a lot. I do think the underground growth happens faster in sunnier areas (i.e. sunny areas won't "pout" as long). Is your "hell stripe" sunnier than the rest of the lawn?


Appreciate the write-up! Especially helpful coming from someone with multiple KBG renos over the past few years under their belts. You live and you learn!

To your question - North facing house/yard gets full sun all day.

My only theory is that the hell strip was seeded at a much higher rate - used a drop spreader there and it was dropping it like its hot. Guessing the overcrowding is having them fight to get the sun, hence pushing up a lot more. The other areas area seeded at 2.5Lbs per K and taking their time in their own space.

Theories are all theories at this point - like you said, just let it be and it will come up over time.


----------



## bf7

Applied azoxy today and forgot surfactant. Will effectiveness be reduced?


----------



## ken-n-nancy

bf7 said:


> Applied azoxy today and forgot surfactant. Will effectiveness be reduced?


Probably not a big difference either way, as azoxy is a systemic fungicide (rather than a contact fungicide) and is absorbed through the roots as well as through the leaves. Scott's DiseaseEx is azoxystrobin and is a granular application, so Scotts DiseaseEx acts all through the roots and works well with grass.

It will take a little longer to get into the plant, and will require watering in, but that shouldn't be an issue on a new renovation with regular light watering.


----------



## bf7

Thank you @ken-n-nancy! I should have thought of the granular products like Scotts and Heritage G. Great point.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> How long were some of you KBG guys stuck in the pout phase?
> 
> Went to cut my front lawn again and no clippings.
> Weird because the hell stripe definitely has clippings coming from it. Same watering/soil/temps...
> 
> Have no idea whats going on.
> 
> I've heard the gurus here on other posts say that a longer pout may actually be beneficial - the lawn is doing more business under the soil versus up top.


I looked back at my journal it's sept 6 when you and @g-man recommended me to mow. I think some of the grass was already out of pout stage then. Because after mowing, I had to keep up every 2 to 3 days. So that was a couple of weeks after germination.


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> How long were some of you KBG guys stuck in the pout phase?
> 
> Went to cut my front lawn again and no clippings.
> Weird because the hell stripe definitely has clippings coming from it. Same watering/soil/temps...
> 
> Have no idea whats going on.
> 
> I've heard the gurus here on other posts say that a longer pout may actually be beneficial - the lawn is doing more business under the soil versus up top.
> 
> 
> 
> I looked back at my journal it's sept 6 when you and @g-man recommended me to mow. I think some of the grass was already out of pout stage then. Because after mowing, I had to keep up every 2 to 3 days. So that was a couple of weeks after germination.
Click to expand...

Right on - the pout phase definitely is lasting different for all of us. Even within the yards the timings have been different. Meaning my hell strip being out and @bf7 front being out but his backyard isn't. I'm sure there is science behind it but the bottom line is we just have to let it come out when it wants to!


----------



## OnTheLawn

I have a feeling my Mazama section will be pouting for quite a while. The area doesn't get much sun, so just getting the germ to get up and out was a struggle. I think I'll be in the same boat as @ken-n-nancy with the shade, but our temps stay warmer longer here, so I should be able to get mowing on it before winter.

This is one week post germ, two weeks post seed down.


----------



## JerseyGreens

OnTheLawn said:


> I have a feeling my Mazama section will be pouting for quite a while. The area doesn't get much sun, so just getting the germ to get up and out was a struggle. I think I'll be in the same boat as @ken-n-nancy with the shade, but our temps stay warmer longer here, so I should be able to get mowing on it before winter.
> 
> This is one week post germ, two weeks post seed down.


It's getting there. I would still call this in the germ phase. Still see lots of babies coming up. It will get stuck but you applied a lot of N-ext products. Let's see if it makes a difference!


----------



## OnTheLawn

@JerseyGreens we'll see! It's definitely shown more growth the last couple of days. It was a perfect storm of minimal sunlight, too much topdressing coverage, and it just being a slow moving KBG cultivar. I woke up this morning pleasantly surprised by it though and thankfully have a ton of resources here to keep me sane with all the KBG renos going on.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> Appreciate the write-up! Especially helpful coming from someone with multiple KBG renos over the past few years under their belts. You live and you learn!


You're welcome. I've learned so much from others on lawn forums like this one, and the only way that works is if we all share the tidbits we know. I've learned some things, but still have a lot left to learn, too...



JerseyGreens said:


> My only theory is that the hell strip was seeded at a much higher rate - used a drop spreader there and it was dropping it like its hot.


Yeah, drop spreaders can be tough for dropping a low rate of seed. KBG in particular is so fine that the spreader usually don't have a "just right" setting. Settings that are large enough to have the seed come out reliably and smoothly tend to be too high of a seeding rate. Reducing the setting to where it would be the right amount tends to make it be too small for reliable feed and there will be inconsistent spreading.

What can be done to get around the "too low of a rate to be reliable" issue with a spreader is to mix the item with something bulkier that is spread at a high rate. I do that when spreading sulfate of potash (0-0-50) by mixing it with biosolid fertilizer (Bay State Fertilizer in my case; Milorganite for most folks except the New Jersey crew and their OceanGro...) I've done it with urea (46-0-0) too to help get more even coverage. I've never done it with grass seed but have heard that others have had success with it. I wish I'd done that this year, as I had trouble getting even flow from the spreader when broadcasting seed, too.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

OnTheLawn said:


> ... thankfully have a ton of resources here to keep me sane with all the KBG renos going on.


Yeah, we renovators using KBG need to draw solace from the other KBG renovators -- it can get real depressing comparing our KBG renovations, even at 30-45 days after seed-down to these PRG or TTTF renovations where it looks like there's a full lawn after 3 weeks!

I just know that with KBG I'm not going to need to be overseeding next fall like the PRG or TTTF folks. Or the fall after that, or the one after that, or ...

Rather, I'll be happy to be applying pre-emergent at the beginning of August and again in September each year. Looking forward to good times!

Of course, we have to get through the first one-and-a-half seasons with KBG before it looks like the PRG or TTTF lawn did at 3 weeks!


----------



## JerseyGreens

ken-n-nancy said:


> I just know that with KBG I'm not going to need to be overseeding next fall like the PRG or TTTF folks. Or the fall after that, or the one after that, or ...
> 
> Rather, I'll be happy to be applying pre-emergent at the beginning of August and again in September each year. Looking forward to good times!


This was part of my Reno pitch to the wifey...but then I went and bought more seed for reseeding and she was like what the hell man...

I said give me a year and half please before any status updates! :lol:


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

OnTheLawn said:


> I have a feeling my Mazama section will be pouting for quite a while. The area doesn't get much sun, so just getting the germ to get up and out was a struggle. I think I'll be in the same boat as @ken-n-nancy with the shade, but our temps stay warmer longer here, so I should be able to get mowing on it before winter.
> 
> This is one week post germ, two weeks post seed down.


I have a wet shaded area and even though most of my yard is out of pout stage that area looks like it's still there. I'm at 25DAG and it still doesn't look that good compared to other areas. But it's way better than what it was 2 weeks ago. Just wait for few weeks. Take a weekly picture so you can see the improvement.


----------



## ruxie88

I'm coming up on 30 DAG. I have been using the manual reel to mow. With the cool weather, leaves started falling. I wonder how soon is it ok to use my rotor mower to cut the grass and mulch leaves? If ok, should I not go below a certain HOC? Thanks.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

ruxie88 said:


> I'm coming up on 30 DAG. I have been using the manual reel to mow. With the cool weather, leaves started falling. I wonder how soon is it ok to use my rotor mower to cut the grass and mulch leaves? If ok, should I not go below a certain HOC? Thanks.


Opinions vary on what to do about fallen leaves on a renovation. It kind of depends upon how many you get. Different people have different definitions of what "a lot of leaves" means to them. Some people have one decorative tree about 8 to 15 feet tall planted in the center of their front lawn that drops all its leaves on their lawn and they talk about having "a lot of leaves" on their lawn. We have a lawn nestled in the midst of woods consisting of 80' tall oaks and maples where on certain days in October enough leaves will fall to just about completely obscure the entire lawn in an afternoon. (And that will happen multiple times over a span of a few weeks.)

Mulch mowing all your leaves is great for building up organic content in the lawn, is great food for earthworms, and will generally help improve your soil. That said, if you get _a lot _ of leaves, it can start to drown the baby grass, even when the leaves are well mulched.

With our renovations, I tend to use a hybrid approach and will sometimes gently blow most of the leaves off the renovation before mowing. Other times, I'll mulch them in, depending upon how much leaf mulch is on the soil between all the grass blades from the prior mowing. It's kind of a judgement call. Mulch in as many as you can without feeling like the grass is getting smothered. You do want the baby grass to be able to get some of the fall sunlight when the sun is out!

For the established portions of the lawn, we mulch in all the leaves. In the fall, I mow to mulch up leaves every 4 days or so (basically the same frequency as my springtime mowing). Because there are leaves falling on our lawn every day for about 4 weeks, there's no point in getting every last leaf mulched up during any given mowing, as a couple hours after I've finished, there will be quite a few more on the lawn again.

So, I just strive to get about 80% - 90% of the leaves mulched up during any single mowing. The ones that get missed will get another shot at getting mulched up in a few days during the next mowing. As an example of this, see the "before" and "after" pictures below. I should note that in the "after" picture, I'm only about 2/3 done with mulching that section, but that should be obvious. I should also note that this is a sparse amount of leaves for us when mowing -- when these pictures were taken, the leaves had been just starting to fall, as is evidenced by how many green leaves are still on the trees.

"Before" Mulching Leaves









"After" (well, 2/3 done) Mulching Leaves


----------



## jperm47

I did a full reno of about 10k of my 23k lawn using GCI cool blue. I applied Tenacity, RGS & Air-8 and Lesxo 18-24-12 starter all at seed down. On the remaining 13k I overseeded and filled in some bare spots. I'm about 7 DAG and getting good germ but looks thin in some areas. I want to start feeding the lawn some N and have the following at my disposal: Carbon-X, Milo and Urea

Should I start spoon feeding my lawn and if so what rate? Do I apply the same rate across the whole lawn or treat the full reno different from the existing / overseeded lawn?


----------



## JerseyGreens

jperm47 said:


> I did a full reno of about 10k of my 23k lawn using GCI cool blue. I applied Tenacity, RGS & Air-8 and Lesxo 18-24-12 starter all at seed down. On the remaining 13k I overseeded and filled in some bare spots. I'm about 7 DAG and getting good germ but looks thin in some areas. I want to start feeding the lawn some N and have the following at my disposal: Carbon-X, Milo and Urea
> 
> Should I start spoon feeding my lawn and if so what rate? Do I apply the same rate across the whole lawn or treat the full reno different from the existing / overseeded lawn?


Will need to see pictures.

Probably too soon. I've learned a lot on my Reno and most importantly do not force the KBG out of the pout phase via feeding. I'm going to assume at this point the seedlings are in pout for you - send pics.


----------



## bf7

Wouldn't be a reno without a new problem everyday.





There are light green spots all over the yard where the peat washed into piles and lots of grass germinated there - that's where I tend to find these but they are not isolated to those spots. They also tend to be in wetter areas. The blades turn a purple color and then brown. I think @synergy0852 was seeing something similar in his reno.

Also does anyone know what this weed is? Could it be poa annua or triv? Or maybe it's just the same ryegrass stuff I was seeing before. I'm so terrible at this.


----------



## jperm47

JerseyGreens said:


> jperm47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did a full reno of about 10k of my 23k lawn using GCI cool blue. I applied Tenacity, RGS & Air-8 and Lesxo 18-24-12 starter all at seed down. On the remaining 13k I overseeded and filled in some bare spots. I'm about 7 DAG and getting good germ but looks thin in some areas. I want to start feeding the lawn some N and have the following at my disposal: Carbon-X, Milo and Urea
> 
> Should I start spoon feeding my lawn and if so what rate? Do I apply the same rate across the whole lawn or treat the full reno different from the existing / overseeded lawn?
> 
> 
> 
> Will need to see pictures.
> 
> Probably too soon. I've learned a lot on my Reno and most importantly do not force the KBG out of the pout phase via feeding. I'm going to assume at this point the seedlings are in pout for you - send pics.
Click to expand...

Ok will take some pics tomorrow and post here. I seeded with cool Blue which is 85% TTTF / 15% KBG. My reno doing much better than my overseed at this point


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## synergy0852

@bf7 Anything with those ripples in the blades I've been pulling out being careful to not disturb the Kbg around it. To me when I see ripples its an unwanted grass. I know Annua has them but not sure about triv.

I fed the grass and it jumped out of that browning stage, what was gone was gone but the rest made it through.


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## ken-n-nancy

bf7 said:


> Wouldn't be a reno without a new problem everyday.


Those images look like fungal disease to me. I haven't had "red thread" in my lawn before, but those pictures are reminiscent of ones that I've seen, such as this one at University of Maryland's Extension: https://extension.umd.edu/hgic/topics/red-thread-lawns

Red thread is also supposed to be prevalent in cool damp conditions. By necessity, a KBG renovation is kind of damp for about two weeks in order to get germination...

Have you applied a fungicide at all? Do you have Scotts DiseaseEx on hand? Axoxystrobin (the active ingredient in DiseaseEx) is lights-out on red thread from what I've heard others report in prior threads I've read.

Of course, since I've never actually had red thread in my lawn, maybe I should just keep my hunch to myself, as I could very well be completely mistaken about this. Hopefully somebody else will recognize what it is from your pics.


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## JerseyGreens

@bf7 were those purple when they germ-ed? Usually tenacity will make seedlings purple and If they never grow out of it then will die. I see enough healthy kbg around it so don't worry.

Assuming this is the back?

Stuck between a rock and a hard place. Feeding will help but I don't think we are ready to feed our trouble areas.


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## JerseyGreens

@ken-n-nancy would you say for a Reno getting the fungicide into the soil is the most beneficial vs foliar?

I put down granular Azoxy a few days ago and sprayed propi today but watered it in...same thinking as using a granular. Knock out any fungus hiding in the the substrate vs sitting on the blade.


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## Zcape35

That does look like Red Thread, I've had it unfortunately in the past.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> @ken-n-nancy would you say for a Reno getting the fungicide into the soil is the most beneficial vs foliar?
> 
> I put down granular Azoxy a few days ago and sprayed propi today but watered it in...same thinking as using a granular. Knock out any fungus hiding in the the substrate vs sitting on the blade.


In all honesty, I've somehow managed to always avoid fungus in our renovations. I'm not entirely sure how, as I've had it in the established portions of the lawn, even while in the midst of the renovation, but I haven't had fungal issues that I've been aware of in the baby grass of the renovation.

That may be because I have sown seed at either 2.5#/ksqft or 3.0#/ksqft and tend to water just enough to keep the soil moist without really being wet. Also, I have held back on "adding seed" to the renovation after initial seed-down, mostly because I've always seeded later than I wanted, and I didn't think there'd be time for the new seed to develop sufficiently. I've also avoided extending the watering period to help a few sparse spots, but have instead started to back off on watering to optimize for the majority of the grass that is doing okay. If I can get the grass that is there to stay alive, even if it is sparse, it will fill in later.

So, I'm probably not the best source of info for how to actually treat fungus in a renovation. However, I know from my experience in treating fungus in my established lawn that the first thing I'm reaching for when I need to treat fungus in the renovation would be azoxystrobin. It is excellent against practically every common lawn fungal disease except Dollar Spot and Pythium Blight. Dollar Spot shouldn't be a problem in a renovation, and if I had Pythium Blight I think I'd need to just throw in the towel and try again next year. 

That said, one needs to be careful not to reach for azoxystrobin all the time, because excessive use will build resistance against it in the fungi in your lawn, and then you won't have it to be your "wild card" any more.

Yes, when applying azoxystrobin to a KBG renovation I'd definitely use a soil-based application, whether as a granular or spraying and then watering it in. As discussed previously, those pouting KBG seedlings are developing great roots and there isn't much foliar surface area yet.

Oh, and for those that haven't seen it, buried somewhere in the thread on this site titled Fungicide Guide is a table for the "Efficacy of Turfgrass Fungicides" that I keep as the best quick reference I've seen for choosing a fungicide for a disease. I've inserted images below; they came from the University of Georgia Cooperative Extensions booklet, "Guide to Turfgrass Fungicides" which is an excellent 36-page booklet. I think it's an awesome fungicide reference and includes dosage rates, repeat intervals, and related information.

However, as a final parting comment, don't always reach for the azoxystrobin, even though it has the broadest coverage, or you'll lose the ability to benefit from it.

See https://athenaeum.libs.uga.edu/handle/10724/12436?show=full for the publication page, or you can go directly to the full PDF.


----------



## bf7

Long story short guys, washout will derail a reno like nothing else. Just a big chain reaction and stacking of issues.

@synergy0852 if it's a grassy weed and I can't identify it, I pull it. Crabgrass and broadleaf stuff I will pull if there's no KBG close to it. Otherwise I'll get it later.

I'm glad there is someone else here who went through this. Hoping that N will solve the color issues. Unfortunately I have to wait until my re-seeded grass matures a little more. Right now my lawn is about 50% from original seeding and ready for urea / 25% re-seeded and pouting / 25% re-seeded and just germinating now.

@ken-n-nancy red thread came to my mind too. I had issues with it in my prior lawn in early spring, and it has gotten significantly cooler this week. The only thing is that red thread looked more bright pink / red to me than this purple color I'm seeing. The blades are turning brown very quickly whereas the red thread I had before remained pink / red for a while. I'm sure it doesn't always look the same though and appearance may differ with young grass (dies quicker) or perhaps the TTTF I had in the prior lawn.

I actually put down my second azoxy app today after noticing this possible disease yesterday. I used azoxy at seed down (30 days ago) and propi about 10 days ago I think. I didn't want to use it again so soon.

I'm also implementing a strict no watering after 4pm policy for myself going forward. I think I have enough healthy germ'd grass at this point to worry about keeping the ground perpetually moist for seeds.

@JerseyGreens only in the back. Front is still rocking fortunately. The back is a trainwreck. As far as I know they weren't purple when they germ'd although there are a bunch of tiny ones that are discolored. The ones in my pics are fairly mature and I am just noticing now. They were green at one point.


----------



## synergy0852

@bf7 FWIW I reseeded as well and am not treating them any different than the original seeded plants. Don't let this sway your decision but they are doing just fine with mower running over them, nitrogen being sprayed on them, tenacity, etc. I think we all baby the grass more than necessary. Oh and I've only watered them twice in the last 9 days and they are doing just as good as the original seeding. (3 of those days were rain and temps are cooler than original seeding)

I just wanted to put this out there for everyone to see don't feel pressured into changing your plans!


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> Knock out any fungus hiding in the the substrate vs sitting on the blade.


By the way, different fungicides behave differently. So, depending upon the fungicide, the reasoning you describe -- washing the fungicide down into the soil to kill fungi there -- may or may not actually be effective.

There are two primary categories of fungicides: "contact fungicides" and "systemic fungicides." Most contact fungicides work by directly killing the living fungus or the spores of the fungus. This is kind of how I always imagined a fungicide works -- kind of like putting bleach on a viral cell -- any virus that touches the bleach gets destroyed. Contact fungicides intercept a fungus even before the fungus infects (gets inside) a grass plant. They get rid of the fungi not by having the fungicide penetrate the plant tissues, but by interfering directly with the growth and development of the fungus. However, to work they must cover the plant surface that is vulnerable to the attack. Many of these contact fungicides are no longer labeled for use on home lawns, because they are subject to overuse by enthusiastic homeowners. Contact fungicides also tend to be broad acting fungicides, killing good fungi as well as bad ones, so their use should be carefully considered. Decay of grass blades, stems, and thatch all depend upon good fungi. (As an aside, lawns which have high use of fungicides are much more prone to thatch buildup; I've observed that those on these forums that do not use chemical fungicides report no thatch buildup, presumably because they have a healthier set of good fungi in their lawn.) Contact fungicides also tend to not have problems with the fungi developing resistance against the fungicide, so they are great to rotate with other classes of fungicides which have that problem. Good examples of contact fungicides are chlorothalonil (Daconil) and mancozeb (Dithane). However, these excellent broad-acting contact fungicides are no longer labeled for residential lawns, but are still usable by homeowners for gardens and ornamentals.

Systemic fungicides instead work by getting into the grass plants themselves, and then moving into other portions of the grass plant. Some of these move only within certain nearby portions of the grass plant; others move throughout most of the plant. Two of the most popular residential fungicides, azoxystrobin (DiseaseEx or Heritage) and propiconazole (Banner Maxx) are both systemic fungicides. However, systemic fungicides take a little more time to act in that there has to be time for the plant to take in the fungicide, redistribute within the plant and then build up enough of the active ingredient to kill the fungus. They tend to be better as preventatives, as the grass plant needs to be still growing well enough (before getting infected by the fungus) for the plant to take in the fungicide and it to get to the point of infection -- if the plant is already too diseased, it won't be functioning well enough for this to happen in time.

Anyway, so applying azoxystrobin or propiconazole doesn't actually kill the spores of the bad fungi that are in the soil. It only kills the fungi that are attacking the plant. This is kind of good, in that it does a great job of protecting the plant. On the other hand, it is kind of bad, as the fungicide doesn't eliminate the fungus from the lawn, it just protects the plants from the fungus. Fungal spores in the soil and on leaf litter are still there, waiting for the chance to infect the plant after the fungicide has worn off, conditions are again just right, and the spores somehow come into contact with the plant's living tissues...


----------



## bf7

@synergy0852 what % of your lawn was original vs re-seed? I may bump up my fert date based on your answer. Definitely cutting down irrigation.

@ken-n-nancy thank you as always for the very thorough explanations. You're a lawn encyclopedia.

And now I'm hearing possible frost this weekend! A month early. Awesome!


----------



## synergy0852

I reseeded one whole side (east side) tossed more seed out back and a decent amount in the front. I'd say maybe 25-30% got another round of seed. All these areas aren't getting any special treatment in regards to the other areas.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@ken-n-nancy is a true expert. He identifies bugs, fungus, weeds and more! We just got ourselves a great mentor in this thread.


----------



## jperm47

jperm47 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jperm47 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did a full reno of about 10k of my 23k lawn using GCI cool blue. I applied Tenacity, RGS & Air-8 and Lesxo 18-24-12 starter all at seed down. On the remaining 13k I overseeded and filled in some bare spots. I'm about 7 DAG and getting good germ but looks thin in some areas. I want to start feeding the lawn some N and have the following at my disposal: Carbon-X, Milo and Urea
> 
> Should I start spoon feeding my lawn and if so what rate? Do I apply the same rate across the whole lawn or treat the full reno different from the existing / overseeded lawn?
> 
> 
> 
> Will need to see pictures.
> 
> Probably too soon. I've learned a lot on my Reno and most importantly do not force the KBG out of the pout phase via feeding. I'm going to assume at this point the seedlings are in pout for you - send pics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok will take some pics tomorrow and post here. I seeded with cool Blue which is 85% TTTF / 15% KBG. My reno doing much better than my overseed at this point
Click to expand...

The 1st two pics are the full reno areas of my lawn. From a distance it looks uniform but then when you walk up to it and look down you can see it's a bit thin. The remaining pics were taken throughout my lawn where I overseeded / had some really thin grass that just isn't seem to be taking. I'm wondering if it has to do with the moss on my lawn. I did a soil test and my pH was 6.2 so don't think it's from that. I dropped seed and starter fert in these areas and stomped it into the soil as best as I could but it doesn't seem to be taking. Wondering if some N would bring these areas to life


----------



## WyGuy

100% Mazama. First mow last night with a manual reel mower, sitting at 27 DAG. Reseeded area are coming in a little slow due to some cooler weather.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Posted our weekly photo update in our lawn journal. I'm sharing here, too, as this period of time (Day 22 after seed-down) is when "sprout and pout" seems really bleak. Well, maybe Day 28 is even worse... 

Even though we've done this many times before and know that the pace will pick up in the future, this* "sprout and pout"* period *is very discouraging*. It just kind of looks like everything has stopped growing and feels like the renovation is going to be a failure.

Having last week's pictures to look at compared to this week helps a little. It also helps to just look at the "from a distance" photos. The "straight down at one's feet" photos are very bleak. I don't usually post those, as they make it look real bad, but to help encourage other renovators that your sparse spots of KBG will work out okay, I'm posting a couple of those "bad pics."

I lightly blew leaves off the renovation area before taking the photos. There really weren't very many; not enough to make it really worthwhile, but it makes the pictures look better. 

We're staying the course and won't be adding more seed, so it won't really look like a lawn until the end of June 2021, but we're okay with that -- we just need to remember this isn't a sprint, but is a marathon.

"Lliac Area" as of 17 September 2020 (Day 22)









"Far End" Repair Area as of 17 September 2020 (Day 22):









Closer View of a "Sparse Valley" in the "Lilac Area" as of 17 September 2020 (Day 22):









Close-Up of a "Sparse Spot" in the "Lilac Area" as of 17 September 2020 (Day 22):


----------



## ken-n-nancy

WyGuy said:


> 100% Mazama. First mow last night with a manual reel mower, sitting at 27 DAG. Reseeded area are coming in a little slow due to some cooler weather.


Looking great!

Any idea what caused the odd line of dense grass (I've tried to indicate it in my "retouched" photo below)?

Is that where a hose had been placed during a rainfall and seed washed out a bit and collected up against the side of the hose?


----------



## WyGuy

ken-n-nancy said:


> WyGuy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 100% Mazama. First mow last night with a manual reel mower, sitting at 27 DAG. Reseeded area are coming in a little slow due to some cooler weather.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking great!
> 
> Any idea what caused the odd line of dense grass (I've tried to indicate it in my "retouched" photo below)?
> 
> Is that where a hose had been placed during a rainfall and seed washed out a bit and collected up against the side of the hose?
Click to expand...

Yep, that's exactly what caused that.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@ken-n-nancy that looks great and thank you for sharing the not so thick areas. I definitely needed to see those to calm me down.

Did you throw down starter fert on the whole Reno area? That's one thing I wish I did but I went the avenue of the seed having all the food it needs for the early days.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@jperm47 Reno is coming along. I can't tell if there are many baby KBG in those spare areas but if so then it will be OK next summer.

If you are inclined then feel free to throw more seed down only in the sparse areas.


----------



## jperm47

JerseyGreens said:
 

> @jperm47 Reno is coming along. I can't tell if there are many baby KBG in those spare areas but if so then it will be OK next summer.
> 
> If you are inclined then feel free to throw more seed down only in the sparse areas.


I'm all out of seed, between my reno and my overseed I dropped like 140 pounds of seed (!!) -- there is another full reno area not in the pics that is like 4-5k square feet. Any ideas why the sparse areas in the later pics aren't taking. It might be that the seed isn't making enough contact with the soil?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Looks like I may have caught the fungus bug - I noticed some yellowing in the distance on my last updated pictures but not widespread like this.

I put down Granular Azoxy on Sunday and Propi yesterday.







Let me know what you guys think!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

I'm joining the disease club!

Need help! I spreaded heritage g 29 days ago. Sprayed propi 2 days ago. Should I go with another round of heritage g?

Looking closer I can see some redish blades like what's on @bf7's photos. It's not spread out though.

Few days ago I started to just water once everyday. Should I adjust it to a deeper and infrequent watering like normal?


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> Did you throw down starter fert on the whole Reno area? That's one thing I wish I did but I went the avenue of the seed having all the food it needs for the early days.


In my past KBG renovations, I didn't spread fertilizer at seed-down, but that was because I was seeding into the existing soil, of which I do soil tests every year, so I knew I was good for phosphorus.

For this year's renovation though, I had brought in topsoil to change the grade, and due to it kind of being spur of the moment, I didn't get a soil test of the new soil (and didn't fallow either). Since I didn't know the phosphorus level in the new soil, I took the easy way out and applied Scotts starter (24-25-4) at seed-down. I put down 6.5 pounds on 2250 square feet, which is 0.69#N / ksqft.

My plan has been to apply more fertilizer at 0.50#N/ksqft when "sprout and pout" finally comes to an end -- presumably about 4-5 weeks after seed-down. Since I don't know the phosphorus level of the new soil, but I know that roots of the new grass will benefit from the easy-to-get phosphorus, I'll continue using the starter fertilizer in the renovation area until it's used up, as I don't have a need for phosphorus elsewhere in the lawn -- due to using Bay State Fertilizer as a big part of our annual nitrogen, I don't have any challenges with phosphorus deficiency.


----------



## JerseyGreens

ken-n-nancy said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you throw down starter fert on the whole Reno area? That's one thing I wish I did but I went the avenue of the seed having all the food it needs for the early days.
> 
> 
> 
> In my past KBG renovations, I didn't spread fertilizer at seed-down, but that was because I was seeding into the existing soil, of which I do soil tests every year, so I knew I was good for phosphorus.
> 
> For this year's renovation though, I had brought in topsoil to change the grade, and due to it kind of being spur of the moment, I didn't get a soil test of the new soil (and didn't fallow either). Since I didn't know the phosphorus level in the new soil, I took the easy way out and applied Scotts starter (24-25-4) at seed-down. I put down 6.5 pounds on 2250 square feet, which is 0.69#N / ksqft.
> 
> My plan has been to apply more fertilizer at 0.50#N/ksqft when "sprout and pout" finally comes to an end -- presumably about 4-5 weeks after seed-down. Since I don't know the phosphorus level of the new soil, but I know that roots of the new grass will benefit from the easy-to-get phosphorus, I'll continue using the starter fertilizer in the renovation area until it's used up, as I don't have a need for phosphorus elsewhere in the lawn -- due to using Bay State Fertilizer as a big part of our annual nitrogen, I don't have any challenges with phosphorus deficiency.
Click to expand...

Love it - thanks! I'll probably use some starter fert as my first few feedings as well. I brought in beautiful toposil. Did a blended soil test (native plus topsoil) and it came back great...just have to add lime.

Last minute I brought in 5 yards of a second topsoil for final grading, and fixing of the monster truck driver who was on my lawn...I'm not sure if/how that moved the needle on my phos requirements.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> Looks like I may have caught the fungus bug - I noticed some yellowing in the distance on my last updated pictures but not widespread like this.
> 
> I put down Granular Azoxy on Sunday and Propi yesterday.


Hmm. There's definitely yellowing going on, but it isn't jumping out at me as looking like disease. Unfortunately, it can be really hard to tell the cause of yellowing grass. If the grass is underfertilized, it turns yellow. Overfertilized, it turns yellow. Too wet, it turns yellow. Not enough iron, it turns yellow. That said, your grass kind of looks to me like the kind of yellowing that happens with too much water. Can you pull a small soil core in an area with yellowing? Is the soil not just moist but actually wet?

I've started to back off watering a bit on our renovation, as I feel like most of the germination is wrapping up and it's time to be backing off on the continuous watering. At the end of the third week after seed-down, I try to back off on the watering so that it's down to just a single daily mid-morning watering (albeit a longer one) by the end of the fourth week after seed-down. As of this week, I've already scaled back watering from 5 times a day to just 4 times daily. This weekend I'll probably cut out the late morning watering, but increase the duration of the morning watering to work towards deeper but less frequent. The weather forecast is for dry, sunny, and windy though, so I may not back off as much as I would if the days were overcast and still.

When it does come to be time to be thinking about mowing (hopefully in a week or so), I'll turn off the irrigation system immediately after the first morning watering and then leave it off until I mow the grass in the early evening. (I prefer to mow the lawn in the early evening, so that it has as long as possible to recover before getting significant sunlight on it.)


----------



## ricwilli

ken-n-nancy said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Knock out any fungus hiding in the the substrate vs sitting on the blade.
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, different fungicides behave differently. So, depending upon the fungicide, the reasoning you describe -- washing the fungicide down into the soil to kill fungi there -- may or may not actually be effective.
> 
> There are two primary categories of fungicides: "contact fungicides" and "systemic fungicides." Most contact fungicides work by directly killing the living fungus or the spores of the fungus. This is kind of how I always imagined a fungicide works -- kind of like putting bleach on a viral cell -- any virus that touches the bleach gets destroyed. Contact fungicides intercept a fungus even before the fungus infects (gets inside) a grass plant. They get rid of the fungi not by having the fungicide penetrate the plant tissues, but by interfering directly with the growth and development of the fungus. However, to work they must cover the plant surface that is vulnerable to the attack. Many of these contact fungicides are no longer labeled for use on home lawns, because they are subject to overuse by enthusiastic homeowners. Contact fungicides also tend to be broad acting fungicides, killing good fungi as well as bad ones, so their use should be carefully considered. Decay of grass blades, stems, and thatch all depend upon good fungi. (As an aside, lawns which have high use of fungicides are much more prone to thatch buildup; I've observed that those on these forums that do not use chemical fungicides report no thatch buildup, presumably because they have a healthier set of good fungi in their lawn.) Contact fungicides also tend to not have problems with the fungi developing resistance against the fungicide, so they are great to rotate with other classes of fungicides which have that problem. Good examples of contact fungicides are chlorothalonil (Daconil) and mancozeb (Dithane). However, these excellent broad-acting contact fungicides are no longer labeled for residential lawns, but are still usable by homeowners for gardens and ornamentals.
> 
> Systemic fungicides instead work by getting into the grass plants themselves, and then moving into other portions of the grass plant. Some of these move only within certain nearby portions of the grass plant; others move throughout most of the plant. Two of the most popular residential fungicides, azoxystrobin (DiseaseEx or Heritage) and propiconazole (Banner Maxx) are both systemic fungicides. However, systemic fungicides take a little more time to act in that there has to be time for the plant to take in the fungicide, redistribute within the plant and then build up enough of the active ingredient to kill the fungus. They tend to be better as preventatives, as the grass plant needs to be still growing well enough (before getting infected by the fungus) for the plant to take in the fungicide and it to get to the point of infection -- if the plant is already too diseased, it won't be functioning well enough for this to happen in time.
> 
> Anyway, so applying azoxystrobin or propiconazole doesn't actually kill the spores of the bad fungi that are in the soil. It only kills the fungi that are attacking the plant. This is kind of good, in that it does a great job of protecting the plant. On the other hand, it is kind of bad, as the fungicide doesn't eliminate the fungus from the lawn, it just protects the plants from the fungus. Fungal spores in the soil and on leaf litter are still there, waiting for the chance to infect the plant after the fungicide has worn off, conditions are again just right, and the spores somehow come into contact with the plant's living tissues...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation. I was actually looking into mancozeb, but did a little research. I just don't get how its still good to use on gardens and ornamentals and not lawns. Maybe because lawns are more out in the open?


----------



## JerseyGreens

@ken-n-nancy - I believe you nailed it again. @g-man also doesn't think this looks purely fungus based. You guys are like grass and soil whisperers!



There is too much water in the "transition" zone of the soil - where the bottom of my new topsoil meets my native soil. Roots were not happy in this area. Slimy. Stuck together a bit.

Seeing how deeps my roots are getting I have no issues forcing that layer to dry out - really only way to do that is cutting back the water and hope the roots start sucking up that extra moisture in the layer.

Moving to watering 1x a day at 11am.

Any other tips to drying out this problem area - hoping the KOH opens up the pores sooner or later here as well.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

ricwilli said:


> Thanks for the explanation. I was actually looking into mancozeb, but did a little research. I just don't get how its still good to use on gardens and ornamentals and not lawns. Maybe because lawns are more out in the open?


I wondered the same thing a few years ago when trying to understand why mancozeb was not okay to put on our lawn if it could be on the apples I buy at the grocery store? So, I looked into it.

In typical fashion, I'm going to give a much longer answer than you probably anticipated, but "if you can teach someone to fish..."

Most people don't realize this, but decisions about herbicide and pesticide use have to do with managing exposure to levels that don't cause harm. People always want for there to be "safe" herbicides and pesticides. There are definitely some that are much more hazardous than others, but nothing is "safe" if one is exposed to too much of it.

Even things that we think of as being truly "safe" can be toxic if eaten, drank, touched, or otherwise consumed in excess. Even water (we could instead call it "dihydrogen monoxide" if we want to make it sound like a nasty chemical) is toxic if too much is drank too quickly. In the past decade, there have even been deaths from excess short-term water consumption in some Army basic training events and in some cases by athletes following endurance races, but the level of intake for "death by drinking water" is around 2 gallons in less than 2 hours.

But, realizing that it's not that a chemical is inherently "safe" or "toxic" but that it is the level of exposure that matters can change one's perspective on things like herbicide and pesticide use -- it's not that some things are always "good" or always "bad" but that the level of exposure needs to be managed to avoid excess exposure. For water, don't drink more than 5 liters in an hour.

Most of us have a salt shaker on our dining table. However, the lethal dose of table salt for an adult is about 4 tablespoons. That means that if somebody at the dinner table were to dump the contents of the salt shaker down their throat, they'd die unless they received immediate medical treatment. Now of course, people don't do that because eating plain salt tastes horrible and your body will realize there's a problem and try to get you to vomit, but still, deaths from salt poisoning happen more than you would think. There are deaths from salt poisoning in the USA every year, usually in children (for whom the lethal dose is much less - only about 1-2 tablespoons) or in those with dementia or an inability to taste salt -- accidentally preparing food with salt instead of sugar can be a real problem in such situations.

Anyway, managing safety of pesticides and herbicides is all about keeping exposure to safe levels. Water is lethal if you drink too much of it. If you don't drink too much of it, the body processes it just fine and there's no problem. Salt is lethal if you eat too much of it. If you don't eat too much of it, the body processes it just fine and there is no problem.

Mancozeb is lethal if you are exposed to too much of it. However, if you aren't exposed to too much of it, then your body processes it just fine and there is no problem. Mancozeb has low acute toxicity to mammals and hasn't shown chronic (long-term) effects in scientific studies, either. However, just because it doesn't kill you in small amounts doesn't mean that it's safe to get too much of it -- just like that shaker of table salt.

So, in order to reduce the likelihood of people being exposed to too much mancozeb, particularly amongst young children, for whom toxic doses are always smaller than for adults, when the EPA was considering the re-registration of mancozeb in 2005, they asked the associated industries of agriculture, professional turf management, and horticulture for suggestions on how to reduce overall potential exposure. The combined industries decided to voluntarily cancel use of mancozeb on athletic fields and residential lawns. So, mancozeb is no longer labeled for use in these "non-essential" ways, but is still labeled for use in more "necessary" industries, such as agriculture, sod farms, and golf courses, where there is limited exposure to children while the product is being applied, and also are much larger areas of profitability for the manufacturers.

Basically, the industry decided it was more profitable and more essential to society to keep using mancozeb for agriculture, sod farms, and golf courses and thus decided to no longer label the product for use on residential turf or athletic fields.

If you want to read more, you can read the report from the 2005 EPA Registration Eligibility Decision for Mancozeb yourself.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> There is too much water in the "transition" zone of the soil - where the bottom of my new topsoil meets my native soil. Roots were not happy in this area. Slimy. Stuck together a bit.
> 
> Seeing how deeps my roots are getting I have no issues forcing that layer to dry out - really only way to do that is cutting back the water and hope the roots start sucking up that extra moisture in the layer.
> 
> Moving to watering 1x a day at 11am.
> 
> Any other tips to drying out this problem area - hoping the KOH opens up the pores sooner or later here as well.


Wow, nice soil core! Prettiest soil core picture with annotations I think I've ever seen outside of a professional publication. Well done!

Taking a soil core is one of the items that should be in the lawn enthusiast's "bag of tricks" when there's an area that isn't growing properly. It is the best way to "get to the root of the problem" for watering issues. It also can identify some fungal root diseases, problems with rocks and gravel, grub issues, and allows one to actually see if they have any "thatch."

Switching to less frequent watering and getting the overall level down to no more than 1" a week, particularly now that the days are shorter with cooler air temperatures, will likely resolve the watering issue. (Although watering needs can vary greatly in the fall - in New England the next few days will be sunny, dry, and windy which will keep watering needs higher than one would normally think for temperatures of highs in the 60s and overnight lows in the 30s.)

Best of all, now that you know to use a soil core as a diagnosis tool, you won't need to guess about whether or not changing the watering is helping. Reduce your watering for about 2-3 days and then pull another soil sample a few inches away from where you got that one to see for yourself how your watering approach is affecting the soil.


----------



## JerseyGreens

ken-n-nancy said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is too much water in the "transition" zone of the soil - where the bottom of my new topsoil meets my native soil. Roots were not happy in this area. Slimy. Stuck together a bit.
> 
> Seeing how deeps my roots are getting I have no issues forcing that layer to dry out - really only way to do that is cutting back the water and hope the roots start sucking up that extra moisture in the layer.
> 
> Moving to watering 1x a day at 11am.
> 
> Any other tips to drying out this problem area - hoping the KOH opens up the pores sooner or later here as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, nice soil core! Prettiest soil core picture with annotations I think I've ever seen outside of a professional publication. Well done!
> 
> Taking a soil core is one of the items that should be in the lawn enthusiast's "bag of tricks" when there's an area that isn't growing properly. It is the best way to "get to the root of the problem" for watering issues. It also can identify some fungal root diseases, problems with rocks and gravel, grub issues, and allows one to actually see if they have any "thatch."
> 
> Switching to less frequent watering and getting the overall level down to no more than 1" a week, particularly now that the days are shorter with cooler air temperatures, will likely resolve the watering issue. (Although watering needs can vary greatly in the fall - in New England the next few days will be sunny, dry, and windy which will keep watering needs higher than one would normally think for temperatures of highs in the 60s and overnight lows in the 30s.)
> 
> Best of all, now that you know to use a soil core as a diagnosis tool, you won't need to guess about whether or not changing the watering is helping. Reduce your watering for about 2-3 days and then pull another soil sample a few inches away from where you got that one to see for yourself how your watering approach is affecting the soil.
Click to expand...

Thank you and good call on trying the "experiment" again in a week or so in the general same area. Will keep you posted next Friday.

The part that is staying overly wet is basically where my old lawn was. My thought was to just let it slowly decompose over time and lend it's OM back into the soil. What I'm thinking is happening is that the new lawn roots sucked up whatever nutrients it found "stuck in this layer" and is now just getting hungry. Any reseeded grass or is still a darker green as it's finding food in the dark topsoil.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> The part that is staying overly wet is basically where my old lawn was. My thought was to just let it slowly decompose over time and lend it's OM back into the soil. What I'm thinking is happening is that the new lawn roots sucked up whatever nutrients it found "stuck in this layer" and is now just getting hungry. Any reseeded grass or is still a darker green as it's finding food in the dark topsoil.


Ah, I'm glad that you mentioned that you have old lawn underneath the new soil. Leaving the old lawn there to decompose is actually a good idea in some ways (it is what our landscaper did when initially installing our front lawn, and we have done it ourselves, too, including in our current renovation this year.) However, there are some caveats to know about...

Decomposition of organic matter requires nitrogen. Basically, having the old lawn decomposing under the new soil is going to temporarily rob the soil of nitrogen in that area. The good news is that rotting grass doesn't use up much extra nitrogen. However, extra nitrogen will be needed.

Knowing how much is needed is going to be tricky, as one can't just say "double the normal" amount, so 2#N/ksqft each month. Rather, you're going to need to watch the grass to see if it looks like it needs more N and apply more when it's looking hungry. This will be more often than normal until the old organic material is fully decomposed.

If the decomposing material were wood, such as sawdust spread as an organic supplement, or wood chips from a big ground up stump, then that can demand lots of nitrogen for a long time. Having trees removed and just having the "stump ground up" and dumped into the hole can be a problem for growing grass in that spot for years.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@ken-n-nancy great call - I'll definitely make sure to keep an eye on the N levels for this Fall, and through 2021.

I've learned so much the past few weeks and promise to help the 2021 and beyond crew with their renos.

When you put it that way - I think my spoon feeding will help my reno snap out of the yellow phase over the next few weeks. No overnight miracles but small steps.

Glad I alerted you guys that something wasn't right with the hue of my lawn. It's hungry!!


----------



## MJR12284

Hey all - A few questions for my fellow renoers: I'm 14DAG and happy with my results so far on my 80/20 TTTF/KBG mix. I've mowed twice so far with my manual reel mower at 2 inches.

1. Do you all agree I should wait until 21DAG to start spoon feeding to avoid forcing the KBG out of the sprout-and-pout phase? I'm planning to spray .25lb N/M with my backpack sprayer. Should that be watered in immediately?

2. I have also been monitoring for fungus but haven't seen anything yet (fingers crossed). I have Propi on hand and I've read it can beneficial for young seedlings. Should I apply Propi at 21DAG as well even if no fungal pressure? If so, what is the appropriate rate?

3. I liked to roll a few bumpy spots this weekend with my lawn roller. Will this harm the seedlings? I'd prolly only fill it up halfway (but that's still pretty heavy).

Glad for your thoughts - thanks!


----------



## OnTheLawn

MJR12284 said:


> Hey all - A few questions for my fellow renoers: I'm 14DAG and happy with my results so far on my 80/20 TTTF/KBG mix. I've mowed twice so far with my manual reel mower at 2 inches.
> 
> 1. Do you all agree I should wait until 21DAG to start spoon feeding to avoid forcing the KBG out of the sprout-and-pout phase? I'm planning to spray .25lb N/M with my backpack sprayer. Should that be watered in immediately?
> 
> 2. I have also been monitoring for fungus but haven't seen anything yet (fingers crossed). I have Propi on hand and I've read it can beneficial for young seedlings. Should I apply Propi at 21DAG as well even if no fungal pressure? If so, what is the appropriate rate?
> 
> 3. I liked to roll a few bumpy spots this weekend with my lawn roller. Will this harm the seedlings? I'd prolly only fill it up halfway (but that's still pretty heavy).
> 
> Glad for your thoughts - thanks!


1) I think you're safe to start your spoon feeding anywhere 14-21 days after germ. I would imagine those KBG cultivars weren't too far behind to TTTF as far as germ, so I would maybe look at starting the spoon feeding at 18-21 days post germ. And yes, water it in immediately. I would work in sections if it's doable. Spray one half, water in. Spray second half and water in. Just to be safe if possible, but either way yes water it in.

2) Propi is best when applied at the 2-3 leaf stage. My label is 1oz/1000. It's systemic, so water it in lightly after spraying. Unless you have a granular, in which case you'll want to go with the preventative rate. If liquid, there should be a section in your label for young grass establishment though and what rate TK use.

3) I'd be cautious with this, but if you're mowing then it should be ok. Try rolling the spots without any water in the roller and see how it goes first. Then go for it if it all looks ok.


----------



## Di3soft

I'm at my wits end here



I water at 11am for 8 minutes per zone, my ground stay damp forever even when I skip watering it's still too damp to use the greens mower. Do I need to water every other day? Or what do I do

This is from today and not watering since 11am yesterday


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Di3soft said:


> I'm at my wits end here
> 
> 
> 
> I water at 11am for 8 minutes per zone, my ground stay damp forever even when I skip watering it's still too damp to use the greens mower. Do I need to water every other day? Or what do I do


You should give up on using the greens mower. It would work better for my lawn, where my soil is sandier, so the ground dries out fast. I'll drive over and bring my 21" rotary mower to do a 1-for-1 swap with you. It will be a win-win for both of us. 

Seriously, though, if you're at around 30 days after germination, your watering should be such that the ground should be able to take the weight of the greens mower 22 hours after the prior watering. I know you received like 4 inches of rain about a week ago, though, so if you have a really fine soil (a lot of silt and clay) it won't dry out fast. But with the roots you should have on 30-day KBG, it shouldn't be necessary to keep the soil surface continually moist. If the ground is too damp for running your greens mower, then you really shouldn't be watering more. Are there some bare spots that you added more seed? If so, hand-water those areas, since they don't need mowing, anyway. (If they need mowing, then they're not bare, so you don't need to add seed to them...)


----------



## synergy0852

That's brutal @Di3soft. Is that a smooth or grooved roller? I haven't had that issue with my grooved roller and some areas are "squishy" when I mow which I would have thought would end up like what you're seeing, but I am not having that issue. That being said I usually don't water at all the day before a mow, and follow the mow with a deeper watering.


----------



## Di3soft

@synergy0852 its a grooved roller, I'm also thinking of picking up a minuteman grooved roller from R&R for it. With the grass growing so quickly I have to mow every two days. I'll try not watering the day before and the day of the mow.


----------



## Di3soft

ken-n-nancy said:


> Di3soft said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm at my wits end here
> 
> 
> 
> I water at 11am for 8 minutes per zone, my ground stay damp forever even when I skip watering it's still too damp to use the greens mower. Do I need to water every other day? Or what do I do
> 
> 
> 
> You should give up on using the greens mower. It would work better for my lawn, where my soil is sandier, so the ground dries out fast. I'll drive over and bring my 21" rotary mower to do a 1-for-1 swap with you. It will be a win-win for both of us.
> 
> Seriously, though, if you're at around 30 days after germination, your watering should be such that the ground should be able to take the weight of the greens mower 22 hours after the prior watering. I know you received like 4 inches of rain about a week ago, though, so if you have a really fine soil (a lot of silt and clay) it won't dry out fast. But with the roots you should have on 30-day KBG, it shouldn't be necessary to keep the soil surface continually moist. If the ground is too damp for running your greens mower, then you really shouldn't be watering more. Are there some bare spots that you added more seed? If so, hand-water those areas, since they don't need mowing, anyway. (If they need mowing, then they're not bare, so you don't need to add seed to them...)
Click to expand...

Already got a 21" rotary haha. Yea I don't try to keep the top damn it just stays damp. Maybe try watering every other day?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Take a soil core! Seriously find out for yourself how much moisture you have at those roots without watering 24-36-48 hours. You may be surprised.


----------



## Di3soft

@JerseyGreens took a few 6" deep core samples everything under 1/2" is nice a damp. Going to try watering some 1 and 3 three times a week and zone two on odd days. This should hopefully help with mowing with the greens master


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> @JerseyGreens took a few 6" deep core samples everything under 1/2" is nice a damp. Going to try watering some 1 and 3 three times a week and zone two on odd days. This should hopefully help with mowing with the greens master


Love it! For sure agree. You are ready for every other day or every 2 days watering for sure!


----------



## Di3soft

Yep, hopefully this will help and I won't have to clean the roller each time I mow. Will keep updated


----------



## Baretta

First mow with the rotary.

Across the drive is the spring reno.


----------



## Zcape35

Looking Mint, are you sure that's not a 2019 reno? Lol


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Baretta said:


> First mow with the rotary.


Looks awesome! Is the fall renovation section also a TTTF / Chewings Fescue mix? Does that mean you've reno'ed everything at this point, or is "section A" from your lawn journal still a northern mix?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Zcape35 said:


> Looking Mint, are you sure that's not a 2019 reno? Lol


 :lol:

Just kidding - that does look great though!


----------



## Carlson

Baretta said:


> First mow with the rotary.
> 
> Across the drive is the spring reno.


Wow! D A R K!


----------



## Baretta

ken-n-nancy said:


> Looks awesome! Is the fall renovation section also a TTTF / Chewings Fescue mix? Does that mean you've reno'ed everything at this point, or is "section A" from your lawn journal still a northern mix?


Thanks! Yes, fall reno is TTTF / Chewing Fescue mix as well. Section A a no mix, will be a final phase project for spring 2021 consisting of PRG (to be determined) and Mazama KBG.


----------



## bf7

@Baretta that color is INSANE! Thank goodness that is not KBG or I was going to throw in the towel on my reno.

But seriously you have me wondering if I should have gone with your mix.


----------



## bf7

So for my reno I've been switching to deep irrigation in the morning and that's it. How many inches per day should I be going for? What are others doing who have cut back on frequent watering?

@JerseyGreens I know, I know..I still need to look at my soil core lol


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> So for my reno I've been switching to deep irrigation in the morning and that's it. How many inches per day should I be going for? What are others doing who have cut back on frequent watering?
> 
> @JerseyGreens I know, I know..I still need to look at my soil core lol


No it's fine. I can guarantee your soil will be wet at the roots.

I'd say 0.15 inches or so per day. Target an inch a week.

Increase your water a tad bit on the days of throwing down fert. Melt it all up nicely.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

bf7 said:


> So for my reno I've been switching to deep irrigation in the morning and that's it. How many inches per day should I be going for? What are others doing who have cut back on frequent watering?
> 
> @JerseyGreens I know, I know..I still need to look at my soil core lol


I'm actually watering 1/4 inch every other day just to make it dry enough for me to mow. But it's not getting dry enough so I'm thinking of doing 1/2 inch twice a week.

To be honest, I don't know the best practice on watering at this stage of the reno. Usually with weather like this, I water 1 inch once a week.


----------



## Di3soft

One side with two zones is now getting 8 minutes of water every 3 days as i fee like it never dries out to mow. The other side with one zone is getting 8 minutes every other day as is dries out a bit faster


----------



## synergy0852

Another approach to consider, and what I'm using, is to monitor your ETo for the day and put that much down.

I'm using this site. Drop down the menu and select Daily FRET and check your area for using this approach. It's a little more work, but we're all lawn nuts so what's an extra few minutes of our time right?

https://digital.weather.gov/?zoom=4&lat=37&lon=-96.5&layers=F000BTTTFTT&region=0&element=42&mxmz=false&barbs=false&subl=TFFFF&units=english&wunits=nautical&coords=latlon&tunits=localt


----------



## Di3soft

@synergy0852 according to ET I would need to put down between .08-.1" everyday I don't see that happening with how damp my souls stays


----------



## JerseyGreens

synergy0852 said:


> Another approach to consider, and what I'm using, is to monitor your ETo for the day and put that much down.
> 
> I'm using this site. Drop down the menu and select Daily FRET and check your area for using this approach. It's a little more work, but we're all lawn nuts so what's an extra few minutes of our time right?
> 
> https://digital.weather.gov/?zoom=4&lat=37&lon=-96.5&layers=F000BTTTFTT&region=0&element=42&mxmz=false&barbs=false&subl=TFFFF&units=english&wunits=nautical&coords=latlon&tunits=localt


This is pretty cool I must say - probably very useful in the super hot months too.


----------



## synergy0852

@Di3soft you can still water every other day just target the two days added together. This can be done in any configuration you need to make it work for you. So maybe .2" every 2 days or .3" every 3 days so you can get your mowing done without mudding up your front roller.


----------



## synergy0852

Also if you don't know what soil type you have that's good to know so you can determine how much water is being stored in the root zone for your soil type. For me I can store .12" water/inch of soil so if my roots are 2 inches deep and my ETo is .12"/day I will need to water every other day minimum to not let that root zone dry out. Ideally I target 50% depletion so I'm still watering daily.


----------



## Di3soft

synergy0852 said:


> @Di3soft you can still water every other day just target the two days added together. This can be done in any configuration you need to make it work for you. So maybe .2" every 2 days or .3" every 3 days so you can get your mowing done without mudding up your front roller.


Yea I may try that, instead of running it at 11am and having wind blow it all around, think I can do it early am and do .25 every 3 days?


----------



## synergy0852

@Di3soft Give it a shot. Add up the ETo for the 3 days ur skipping and then water as long as needed to replace that much.


----------



## Di3soft

Thanks @synergy0852 will give it a shot.

I did mow today with little dirt in the roller. Buts warmer today so dried out a bit better. But not paying attention and the transport axle got me....



Didn't stop it fast enough. Gotta make a run for a new tee before vacation


----------



## Zcape35

@synergy0852 thanks for that link. I'll check that out for sure.

Those axles have to go, I took them off right away. I have a concrete walkway with steps and could picture catching it and my machine taking a hard turn into the steps.


----------



## Di3soft

I normally take them off real quick with the impact. Today figured so a quick mow and skipped that step, that's what I get.


----------



## Airbender

Hi Guys, 
In middle of a renovation, and below are the details. 
Seed Mix: 70/30 KBG and PGR. 
Drop Date: Seed was put down between 09/05 and 09/09. 
Covered with peat moss and applied some tenacity at seed down as well.
I've been watering heavily for the first 10 days, and just cut back to once a day for the past few days.

PGR has germinated and as expected KBG yet to show up.

Today, found some white and pink stems sprouting in a small area.



Close up is below:



Are these red threads / signs of fungus already? Is it time for a preventive fungicide?


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Airbender said:


> ... Seed was put down between 09/05 and 09/09.
> Covered with peat moss and applied some tenacity at seed down as well. ...
> 
> Today, found some white and pink stems sprouting in a small area.
> 
> ...
> 
> Are these red threads / signs of fungus already? Is it time for a preventive fungicide?


White and pink stems are a common side effect of localized Tenacity overapplication on seedlings. That looks to me like what is shown in the pictures you posted. It doesn't look like red thread or a fungus to me.

I speculate there may have been inadvertent application of excess Tenacity (mesotrione) which is causing the white and pink stems. It should resolve itself in the desirable grasses.


----------



## Airbender

Thanks ken-n-nancy. 
This was towards the end of phase, and the most likely, the amount of tenacity was not as measured. 
Appreciate the diagnosis.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Airbender said:


> Hi Guys,
> In middle of a renovation, and below are the details.
> Seed Mix: 70/30 KBG and PGR.
> Drop Date: Seed was put down between 09/05 and 09/09.
> Covered with peat moss and applied some tenacity at seed down as well.
> I've been watering heavily for the first 10 days, and just cut back to once a day for the past few days.
> 
> PGR has germinated and as expected KBG yet to show up.
> 
> Today, found some white and pink stems sprouting in a small area.
> 
> 
> 
> Close up is below:
> 
> 
> 
> Are these red threads / signs of fungus already? Is it time for a preventive fungicide?


I had that too, it could be from too much watering during seeding. I also put down some azoxy and cycle it with propi. Thankfully it didn't spread out. My reno is pretty much stable now that's why I slowly reduced my watering. Now I'm watering every 3 days depending on the weather. Your grass looks young and it might still need daily watering. Just make sure it wont dry out during the day and not too wet at night.


----------



## bf7

Thanks all for the tips on watering.

I have one follow up - for those who are spraying their N, will you target a foliar or root absorption? I think the only difference is that root / soil absorption involves watering in the fert immediately after application. Foliar seems a little risky to me if you get sloppy with the sprayer, so I am leaning towards watering it in the soil right away. But if anyone can point to any marked benefit of foliar app on seedlings, I'm listening.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

All I want to say, is even though this is our 6th renovation in the past 8 years, "sprout and pout" of a KBG-only renovation is still just as frustrating this time as it was the first time!

Day after day goes by, with little change, while you see photos of other renovators with PRG or TTTF renovations that were seeded the same day as yours, but that now look like an established lawn! Not only that, but those PRG and TTTF renos have mowed 3 times already!

But still, our KBG isn't even an inch tall and the only way we can tell it is growing at all is to look at a photo from a week ago and note a minor difference.

It's even worse when the comparison is made to the newly-seeded PRG lawn of your neighbor next door!

Knowing that it will be okay sometimes doesn't really make it feel any better right now.

However, if we stay the course, it _will_ be okay...


----------



## WyGuy

4th mow, 2nd with the rotary at 1.5''. Seems like it's really starting to take off and the thin spots seem to be filling in. I've been doing weekly spoon feedings as well.


----------



## JerseyGreens

ken-n-nancy said:


> All I want to say, is even though this is our 6th renovation in the past 8 years, "sprout and pout" of a KBG-only renovation is still just as frustrating this time as it was the first time!
> 
> Day after day goes by, with little change, while you see photos of other renovators with PRG or TTTF renovations that were seeded the same day as yours, but that now look like an established lawn! Not only that, but those PRG and TTTF renos have mowed 3 times already!
> 
> But still, our KBG isn't even an inch tall and the only way we can tell it is growing at all is to look at a photo from a week ago and note a minor difference.
> 
> It's even worse when the comparison is made to the newly-seeded PRG lawn of your neighbor next door!
> 
> Knowing that it will be okay sometimes doesn't really make it feel any better right now.
> 
> However, if we stay the course, it _will_ be okay...


So very frustrating! Many of us with KBG are in the same boat and there is no reason to compare. Found myself doing that but there is no point given we are using different cultivars for the most part in different situations.

Plus a few of us are coming up with a theory - sprout & Pout will last significantly longer on parts of the yard that get sun all day - I'm talking 10+ hours of sun a day....the seedlings have no reason to grow taller for sun, they are getting plenty of it already. My home faces due North - front yard gets bombarded with sun all day with limited shade. The parts that are getting some shade, either from a tree, the house (sun angle is changing slowly), telephone pole are maturing/growing taller.

The other guys and gals with full sun are laughing in my face saying ha-ha-ha we have no reason to grow up!


----------



## OnTheLawn

Imagine having a TTTF and KBG monostand reno going on at the same time...


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> ken-n-nancy said:
> 
> 
> 
> All I want to say, is even though this is our 6th renovation in the past 8 years, "sprout and pout" of a KBG-only renovation is still just as frustrating this time as it was the first time!
> 
> Day after day goes by, with little change, while you see photos of other renovators with PRG or TTTF renovations that were seeded the same day as yours, but that now look like an established lawn! Not only that, but those PRG and TTTF renos have mowed 3 times already!
> 
> But still, our KBG isn't even an inch tall and the only way we can tell it is growing at all is to look at a photo from a week ago and note a minor difference.
> 
> It's even worse when the comparison is made to the newly-seeded PRG lawn of your neighbor next door!
> 
> Knowing that it will be okay sometimes doesn't really make it feel any better right now.
> 
> However, if we stay the course, it _will_ be okay...
> 
> 
> 
> So very frustrating! Many of us with KBG are in the same boat and there is no reason to compare. Found myself doing that but there is no point given we are using different cultivars for the most part in different situations.
> 
> Plus a few of us are coming up with a theory - sprout & Pout will last significantly longer on parts of the yard that get sun all day - I'm talking 10+ hours of sun a day....the seedlings have no reason to grow taller for sun, they are getting plenty of it already. My home faces due North - front yard gets bombarded with sun all day with limited shade. The parts that are getting some shade, either from a tree, the house (sun angle is changing slowly), telephone pole are maturing/growing taller.
> 
> The other guys and gals with full sun are laughing in my face saying ha-ha-ha we have no reason to grow up!
Click to expand...

I'm starting to get bored with my renovation, it's just about the same everyday. I'm done with all the steps I planned during the start of my reno except for the weekly spoon feeding and prodiamine. I still have some bare spots that's taking forever to fill in. Even if I'm looking at the progress weekly I see very small difference. What's important now is to keep the grass healthy until the end of the season. Whatever bare spot that won't fill in this fall should fill in in the future.


----------



## bf7

@shadowlawnjutsu how many spoon feedings have you done and what rate of N?

100% agree with @JerseyGreens on the sun thing. I have 7k sq ft worth of 3.5 week old pouting babies on the south east side who can attest to this. No trees.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

@bf7, I already done 3 spoon feedings already at .2lbs/1000.

I have the same issue of pouting on the full sun areas.

I can also see some yellowing probably because of the tenacity I sprayed last Saturday.


----------



## ruxie88

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> @bf7, I already done 3 spoon feedings already at .2lbs/1000.
> 
> I have the same issue of pouting on the full sun areas.
> 
> I can also see some yellowing probably because of the tenacity I sprayed last Saturday.


To further add for data purposes, I'm seeing the same results. Slow growth and slow spreading in the areas that get the most sun. For the last 2-weeks after realizing this, I hand watered adding more water to this area. But, it still doesn't grow/spread as quickly as the other parts that get more shade.


----------



## bf7

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> @bf7, I already done 3 spoon feedings already at .2lbs/1000.
> 
> I have the same issue of pouting on the full sun areas.
> 
> I can also see some yellowing probably because of the tenacity I sprayed last Saturday.


And you aren't seeing any difference from the N?

Call me crazy but I think I'm going to skip the second Tenacity treatment. Seeing some scary posts on here. My weeds aren't that bad and crabgrass will go away after the frost which I'm expecting soon. Not worth the risk IMO. Will stick to prodiamine at the end of the season.


----------



## JerseyGreens

+1 I'm skipping the next Tenacity apps.

I'll definitely note that my lawn is responding to the N big time. That weird yellow look is all but nearly gone. Grass looks super healthy and well fed.

Also I love CX products by the way. Seeing what that last fert app did has me very impressed thus far. I'm sold.

Neighbors just said we were worrying about you a few days ago but it's looking real good now. First compliments of I hope many.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> +1 I'm skipping the next Tenacity apps.
> 
> I'll definitely note that my lawn is responding to the N big time. That weird yellow look is all but nearly gone. Grass looks super healthy and well fed.
> 
> Also I love CX products by the way. Seeing what that last fert app did has me very impressed thus far. I'm sold.
> 
> Neighbors just said we were worrying about you a few days ago but it's looking real good now. First compliments of I hope many.


Haha we were all a little worried about you before! Ryegrass!

I might have to try some of that CX stuff if I don't get a response from urea. I don't see why I wouldn't though. Everything got a shade darker from the starter fert last week. Planning to spray urea early tomorrow morning.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Haha @bf7 I sure did bring up sissygrass. The posts will be here forever...thank God I didn't do anything foolish like that and my Reno brothers walked me back from the ledge.

I feel like CX stuff is helping the lawn have good vigor. It's hard to explain. I've thrown down straight AMS and then the CX. Could be combo of them both hitting but damn I like what I see. Hell it could be the Air8 helping too. Who knows at this point!


----------



## bf7

Food is food. The grass will enjoy it.

I'm sure the Air8 is helping your roots too even though you got that weird foliar reaction.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

@bf7, you better skip it if you don't have a lot of weed pressure. I get a bit of yellowing in the grass which is expected. Just not sure how much of them will survive that. And that's not even a full dose of tenacity. It's 2.5 gallons measurement(syringe) of tenacity mixed with 3 gallon of water. I'm afraid I might mess it up so I used lower dose.


----------



## bf7

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> @bf7, you better skip it if you don't have a lot of weed pressure. I get a bit of yellowing in the grass which is expected. Just not sure how much of them will survive that. And that's not even a full dose of tenacity. It's 2.5 gallons measurement(syringe) of tenacity mixed with 3 gallon of water. I'm afraid I might mess it up so I used lower dose.


Good to know. Thanks for the heads up. I have virtually no weeds on the front / sides and the portion of the back closer to the house that I care about. For whatever reason I'm getting a bunch in the far back (not complaining). If anything I was going to maybe spot spray those but now I'm thinking I'll just let the frost take care of most of them, hand pull the rest, and get the real pre-m down once the KBG can safely tolerate it.


----------



## Zcape35

I was just about to prepare my Tenacity for the seeding app but maybe I'll skip it. I don't have to many weeds popping. I mainly wanted to help possibly slow winter annuals from starting since I had some weird grass last year. Not that they are even on the Tenacity label...
I guess I will spray my Prodiamine as soon as I possibly can which isn't until mid October.


----------



## HudsonValleyFescue

Completed 21 days ago in NY, problems: compaction, Low Ph, dead and dormant grass.
Remedy:
-Irrigation - pipes were in place, replaced valves and flowback on system with a new BeeHive Timer. love the Wifi.
-classen power rake-clean up
-classen aerator -beat the snot out of ground
-5- 40lb bags of Lime
-7 Yards of topsoil -Spread with DIY tow behind level and cynderblocks
-rgs/air8/humic12/Tenacity-Via FieldKingBackPackSprayer 
-SS1002 (25Lb)
-SS1000 (25Lb)
-Greenepop Starter
-Peatmoss
-weedfree straw-pennington
-Watered for 5 minutes 4xdaily -Random Manual water hits, WFH got me eyein' the lawn

SS1002 (SHADE) contains Rowdy, Valkyrie LS, Titanum 2LS, and GTO tall fescue. 
SS1000 Contains Avenger II, 4th Millennium, Raptor III and Amity TF.

This was my first ever reno and super happy about it, past weekend hit it with some greenepunch at a half rate for a 9 nitro hit. Mowed with Timewaster rebuild from Craigslist. (Big Thank you to YouTube, TheLawnForum, and random google searches.)

Plans: Prodiamine, fall treatment and one last fert via Greenpunch


----------



## JerseyGreens

Zcape35 said:


> I was just about to prepare my Tenacity for the seeding app but maybe I'll skip it. I don't have to many weeds popping. I mainly wanted to help possibly slow winter annuals from starting since I had some weird grass last year. Not that they are even on the Tenacity label...
> I guess I will spray my Prodiamine as soon as I possibly can which isn't until mid October.


Did you guys catch the new @thegrassfactor video on Tenacity?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aCm0WJayvk

I can state that his conclusions on how to best utilize Tenacity (in mixes) are absolutely rock solid - I did a mix herbcide app of 2-4D/Tenacity/triclopyr last year and holy smokes - don't believe one weed survived. I'm talking one application folks!

I'm not surprised more of us are leaning on skipping the next app...most reno-ers fear Poa Annua...by far one of our biggest fears but Tenacity point blank doesn't do a great job with it as a pre-em...Risk outweighs the rewards in my mind.

I have a ton of Crabgrass - easy to kill later.


----------



## ludawg23

@g-man

I am 21 DAG and have mowed twice so far the past two weeks. After the mow, I have been spoon feeding with 0.25lb of Urea via spray tank.

Any idea if I could also use Milorganite or would that be too much nitrogen at once?

Not sure if could do a combination of both or just continue with urea for now.


----------



## HudsonValleyFescue

> I'm not surprised more of us are leaning on skipping the next app...most reno-ers fear Poa Annua...by far one of our biggest fears but Tenacity point blank doesn't do a great job with it as a pre-em...Risk outweighs the rewards in my mind.
> 
> I have a ton of Crabgrass - easy to kill later.


Grass factor is great, love to put him on the back ground too. Tenacity helped with the crab and did a good job with the sedge but unfortunately you are right, had some white poa growing out the edges. Moving towards prodiamine


----------



## g-man

@ludawg23 how much growth are you getting in a week? Why the push for more nitrogen?


----------



## g-man

@JerseyGreens @HudsonValleyFescuemaybe you guys watched a different video. He clearly explained that tenacity does provide suppression of poa a. Is it perfect against 1million seeds in your soil? no. Following the soil helps, but I would not skip the tenacity.


----------



## JerseyGreens

g-man said:


> @JerseyGreens @HudsonValleyFescuemaybe you guys watched a different video. He clearly explained that tenacity does provide suppression of poa a. Is it perfect against 1million seeds in your soil? no. Following the soil helps, but I would not skip the tenacity.


We watched the same video that was linked. Ha.

Suppression doesn't mean control and for those of us like myself who aren't even close to their first mow why risk messing up with the tenacity app?

You have lots of different skill level reno-ers this season and many of us don't want to take the risk. Justifiably so.


----------



## JerseyGreens

@g-man appreciate you bringing up the risks of not putting down the follow-up application of Tenacity. Agreed it's risky business.

I just looked into Prodiamine and it looks like we have to wait 60 days after seed down and soil temps should be above 60ish degrees...Fall is coming quick not sure what soil temps will be in 30 days.

However, I read that you had success hitting Poa A with GLY in the Spring - timing of the kill matter a lot right? You linked a study in one of your posts where you said that. Can we just do that and let the KBG self repair?

Thanks as always!!


----------



## g-man

You can use gly on poa a, but if it is all over the lawn, it is not a pretty sight.

It is all about risk and risk mitigation. I can see why you want to avoid it.


----------



## Slingblade_847

Ok boys, I posted this in my journal as well, and curious if any of you have had similar issues @bf7 @JerseyGreens @Di3soft

Trying not to hit the panic button!!

I think it's fungus and this first hurdle I've really faced in this Reno. @ken-n-nancy tagging you as you have been a great mentor to us and have helped many of us lawn Reno newbs along the way.

I thought the lawn was maturing into deeper greens, but hoping the NON-deeper areas are not fungus creeping in. I've included a far out shot where you can see th different greens - does this look about right ~30DAG?


Here are some closeups.


----------



## bf7

@Slingblade_847 I posted a reply in your journal. This looks pretty similar to the areas where I had seeds wash together and got fungus. Propi to prevent spreading, tone down watering, keep up with N.

The far away shot is looking stellar by the way!


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Slingblade_847 said:


> I think it's fungus and this first hurdle I've really faced in this Reno. @ken-n-nancy tagging you as you have been a great mentor to us and have helped many of us lawn Reno newbs along the way.
> 
> I thought the lawn was maturing into deeper greens, but hoping the NON-deeper areas are not fungus creeping in. I've included a far out shot where you can see the different greens ...
> 
> Here are some closeups.


Hmm. The different greens are typical for new grass transitioning over to more mature blades and not doing it all evenly. It is pretty normal to have that effect as the grass matures. Uneven fertilizer application, typically from large-pellet granular being spread in a low amount, can also give that effect.

However, the yellowing blades, particularly in the last two photos (referenced above) is more concerning. Something is amiss there. The soil looks really wet -- like not just moist, but wet. Are the yellow patches in the wettest spots?

Your watering should be down to no more than once a day at this point, and should be transitioning to every other day soon, if not already. There are some brown spots on blades in the last two photos which could be fungal lesions, but it's hard to tell.

As others have mentioned, continuing to reduce watering, applying a fungicide, and continuing with the regular spoon-feeding N will all help.


----------



## Matthew_73

before









during 









seeded









18 DAG 









40 DAG


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Matthew_73 said:


> 40 DAG


Looks awesome! Good work! Pretty much impossible to beat TTTF for speed of establishment and maturation after a new renovation!


----------



## Matthew_73

ken-n-nancy said:


> Matthew_73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 40 DAG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks awesome! Good work! Pretty much impossible to beat TTTF for speed of establishment and maturation after a new renovation!
Click to expand...

Thxs. I'm super proud.

15% kbg.

And I did it in Kate July through Aug. with only .5" of rain. My water bill on the other hand 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Squire515

Hey guys, I figured I would ask my fellow renovators before posting in the fungal ID thread. Im 34 DAG and had a lot of washout. So far, I've been spoon feeding N at .5 every two weeks, and have applied two applications of headway at the 3oz rate, which I did twice 14 days apart. I'm watering about .5 inches per week. I would water more, but my lawn is heavily shaded and stays wet.

I feel like I took a more aggressive stance on fungicide applications than what I read about here, But I think I have a bad fungus in my Reno.

There are large patches where the blades are thin and brown, and there are small spots of dead grass.

In addition, ~60% of the blades have brown tips. I sharpened my mower blades the day after seed down.

Any tips on the next steps I should take? I'm not sure why the headway didn't prevent this.


----------



## jrubb42

@Squire515 To be honest, I looked at your photos before reading your post and the first thing that popped in my head was that the grass looked like it was very water deprived. After reading that it was only getting 0.5 a week, I think that may confirm that. Young grass needs a lot of water.

That does not look like fungus to me.


----------



## Squire515

jrubb42 said:


> @Squire515 To be honest, I looked at your photos before reading your post and the first thing that popped in my head was that the grass looked like it was very water deprived. After reading that it was only getting 0.5 a week, I think that may confirm that. Young grass needs a lot of water.
> 
> That does not look like fungus to me.


Thank you. I will try watering more. I just thought that lesions we're always caused by fungus.


----------



## Di3soft

So just got back from being away since last Wednesday. A lot changes when you don't look at your lawn 20 times a day. Spots are filling in and looks way thicker than before


----------



## JerseyGreens

Squire515 said:


> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Squire515 To be honest, I looked at your photos before reading your post and the first thing that popped in my head was that the grass looked like it was very water deprived. After reading that it was only getting 0.5 a week, I think that may confirm that. Young grass needs a lot of water.
> 
> That does not look like fungus to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. I will try watering more. I just thought that lesions we're always caused by fungus.
Click to expand...

Can you send us more pictures from far away showing larger portions of the area?

Agree with @jrubb42 - things look dry in that picture.

To your point about yellowing or color issues - I was in the same school of thought but our great mentors here nailed it by saying it was lack of nutrition and overwatering.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

The evidence suggests that "sprout and pout" is now OVER for Ken-n-Nancy's renovation this year! Decided today that the baby grass is showing significant growth, so we're looking forward to mowing before long!

Today was a gorgeous day to be outside! Ken mowed the established portions of the lawn, Nancy blew the leaves off the renovation and then felt inspired to hand-pull the most significant weeds. It looked so nice Ken just had to take some pictures!

Pouting No More! 2020-09-28 - Day 33









Nancy Hand-Weeding the Renovation on 2020-09-28


----------



## Airbender

Congrats on getting over the "sprout and pout" phase. 
The lawn is coming along great.



ken-n-nancy said:


> The evidence suggests that "sprout and pout" is now OVER for Ken-n-Nancy's renovation this year! Decided today that the baby grass is showing significant growth, so we're looking forward to mowing before long!


----------



## Airbender

For a mostly KBG lawn, do we have to wait till 30 days from seed down to add more seed to bald spots?

Below is an image from a few days back, (Day 18 after seed down).



Here is picture from Day 11 after seed down.



More recent images are below:


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

@Airbender, it doesn't look that bad for day 18. KBG is really slow and I think all those spots will fill in overtime. You don't want to have overcrowding because it is gonna be prone to disease. If you really think there's a bare spot lightly seed it. But looking at your photo, looks like you got a good coverage.


----------



## Airbender

Thanks @shadowlawnjutsu for the feedback on coverage. Doing nothing is far more challenging than what I had imagined.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Airbender said:


> Thanks @shadowlawnjutsu for the feedback on coverage. Doing nothing is far more challenging than what I had imagined.


Yes, that is so true! I'm at that stage a couple of weeks ago. I did add some seed 21 days after seeding. The problem I had is that When I added seed, I have to keep it wet. And I think that contribute to the yellowing of grass blades. Now what I'm seeing are baby grasses in between mature ones and the mature ones look thick enough to spread. So I think I should have just let it spread than seed.

Here's what I notice, the crowded grasses has thinner blades and lighter color. It looks like long baby grasses while the spreadout grasses are the ones that has a lot of tillers and so thick.


----------



## JerseyGreens

ken-n-nancy said:


> The evidence suggests that "sprout and pout" is now OVER for Ken-n-Nancy's renovation this year! Decided today that the baby grass is showing significant growth, so we're looking forward to mowing before long!
> 
> Today was a gorgeous day to be outside! Ken mowed the established portions of the lawn, Nancy blew the leaves off the renovation and then felt inspired to hand-pull the most significant weeds. It looked so nice Ken just had to take some pictures!
> 
> Pouting No More! 2020-09-28 - Day 33
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nancy Hand-Weeding the Renovation on 2020-09-28


This is looking great Ken and Nancy!! Cruise control now


----------



## bf7

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Airbender said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks @shadowlawnjutsu for the feedback on coverage. Doing nothing is far more challenging than what I had imagined.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that is so true! I'm at that stage a couple of weeks ago. I did add some seed 21 days after seeding. The problem I had is that When I added seed, I have to keep it wet. And I think that contribute to the yellowing of grass blades. Now what I'm seeing are baby grasses in between mature ones and the mature ones look thick enough to spread. So I think I should have just let it spread than seed.
> 
> Here's what I notice, the crowded grasses has thinner blades and lighter color. It looks like long baby grasses while the spreadout grasses are the ones that has a lot of tillers and so thick.
Click to expand...

@Airbender agree with @shadowlawnjutsu looks like good coverage. I wouldn't add seed to the areas you showed. In fact, now that I've been through this process, I don't think I would ever add KBG seed if I didn't have significant washout. As shadow mentioned, you need to keep the new seed moist and it leads to fungus in your established grass.

I was worried about the bare and overcrowded light green patches before. Then I began urea and dark green is slowly taking over everywhere.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

bf7 said:


> In fact, now that I've been through this process, I don't think I would ever add KBG seed if I didn't have significant washout. As shadow mentioned, you need to keep the new seed moist and it leads to fungus in your established grass.


I think the above is an important take-away for those doing all-KBG renovations. KBG is real hard to get going from seed, ideally requiring about 10-14 days of deluge-free weather immediately following seed-down to allow the seed to germinate without suffering washout. Then, after the seed germinates and gets about 0.5" to 0.75" tall, top growth stalls out and is replaced by root growth for 2-4 more weeks (affectionately known as "sprout and pout.")

However, it takes surprisingly few seedlings in a "bare spot" for those seedlings to grow up into mature grass plants and get full coverage when the grass is mature. Really, a single seedling per square inch is plenty. It will look like a "bare spot" until the grass gets out of "sprout and pout" but after that, KBG just needs to be given good conditions and plenty of fertilizer, and it will fill in. The KBG lawn owner just needs to take the "long term view" that the goal of a fall renovation is to have a great looking lawn by the end of the following spring. One of the biggest appeals of a KBG-only lawn is having no need to overseed - ever!


----------



## bf7

All great points @ken-n-nancy

Here is some encouragement for those struggling with overcrowded (the light green) spots. This is what 2 spoon feedings of nitrogen can do. The area by the tree is about halfway to full recovery. Sorry the pics aren't from exactly the same angle.

Before N (light green, yellow, diseased)



After N (dark green creeping in)


----------



## Di3soft

I saw a post by @g-man about moving plug during renovation. Im 48 DAG when would be a good time to take some plugs for thick areas and move a few to more empty areas? or wait till spring time?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> I saw a post by @g-man about moving plug during renovation. Im 48 DAG when would be a good time to take some plugs for thick areas and move a few to more empty areas? or wait till spring time?


I think on my journal he said November.

I'd wait if I were you - let the roots spread out some more so your plugs stay intact when moving over.


----------



## Di3soft

ok cool, ill do that then


----------



## Slingblade_847

Hey all-

What are our thoughts on mowing toooo often with new grass. Is there such a thing? I have 100% KBG at about 35 DAG, and am currently using a 16" manual with a current HOC of just under 1 1/4", and tired of the double cutting. Feel it would almost be easier to cut daily. Any harm in this? How often are you all mowing?


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Slingblade_847 said:


> Hey all-
> 
> What are our thoughts on mowing toooo often with new grass. Is there such a thing? I have 100% KBG at about 35 DAG, and am currently using a 16" manual with a current HOC of just under 1 1/4", and tired of the double cutting. Feel it would almost be easier to cut daily. Any harm in this? How often are you all mowing?


I mow every 2-3 days at 1.5inch cutting height.


----------



## ruxie88

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Slingblade_847 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey all-
> 
> What are our thoughts on mowing toooo often with new grass. Is there such a thing? I have 100% KBG at about 35 DAG, and am currently using a 16" manual with a current HOC of just under 1 1/4", and tired of the double cutting. Feel it would almost be easier to cut daily. Any harm in this? How often are you all mowing?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm mowing every 3 days at 1" HOC. I thought I read somewhere you can mow too frequently not giving the tips enough time to heal.
Click to expand...


----------



## zeus201

Backyard is starting to feel like a lawn again.

Pangea PRG mono, 20ish DAG, 2nd mow at 3/4". Looks decent from these angles but still has lots of filling in to do.





Dirt spots in the forefront of the picture is Mazama mono which is TAKING an eternity to do anything.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

@zeus201, looking great!


----------



## JerseyGreens

These guys and their TTTF and Rye renos!! Show me that Mazama @zeus201 :lol:

Just messing. That looks phenomenal!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Heavy downpour tonight and looks like it'll be raining overnight. My washout area looks good and grass looks like it can handle the water running down in the slopes.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

@zeus201, first thing that came into me when I saw those pictures is that it looks similar to ryan knorr's backyard.


----------



## OnTheLawn

Man, that rain was nuts. We'll see how the Mazama plot held up in the morning once things have settled, but the roots should be deep and strong enough at this point to have held everything in place.


----------



## zeus201

Thanks everyone. Like majority of us doing a reno, lots of nights second guessing yourself and having family constantly remind you when they can use the yard again. Not outta of the woods yet, but can start to relax a bit.



JerseyGreens said:


> These guys and their TTTF and Rye renos!! Show me that Mazama @zeus201 :lol:
> 
> Just messing. That looks phenomenal!


As requested  . This section is a continuation of my Mazama mono which was started last year.





PRG and Mazama were seeded on the same day (8/31), watered same frequencies, and etc. KBG is starting to show development of 2nd and 3rd leaves which is a plus. Comparing this against the rye isn't fair, but just hard not to do. Hopefully come next season it will mostly fill in and start to match the density of the existing / adjacent Mazama.


----------



## mfran615

How do you fill in this spots after seeding? I seeded 3 weeks ago and I can't get new seed to stay in place. Also, after a heavy rain Monday evening, a lot of the grass has fallen over. Is this just because I need to mow? I haven't mowed it yet. Scared to.


----------



## Squire515

JerseyGreens said:


> Squire515 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jrubb42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Squire515 To be honest, I looked at your photos before reading your post and the first thing that popped in my head was that the grass looked like it was very water deprived. After reading that it was only getting 0.5 a week, I think that may confirm that. Young grass needs a lot of water.
> 
> That does not look like fungus to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. I will try watering more. I just thought that lesions we're always caused by fungus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you send us more pictures from far away showing larger portions of the area?
> 
> Agree with @jrubb42 - things look dry in that picture.
> 
> To your point about yellowing or color issues - I was in the same school of thought but our great mentors here nailed it by saying it was lack of nutrition and overwatering.
Click to expand...

I went to go snap some pictures, but the thin blades and browning magically disappeared.

I had skipped the section of my soil test result that showed I was severely deficient in Iron, so I applied a small bag of ironite last week. We've been getting decent rain here too, so either the ironite or the rain helped a lot.

On another note, does anyone have any application guides for ironite? My soil test result showed .3 ppm of fe while the optimal range is 2-4. I applied a 15lb bag, of which is 3lbs of actual iron.

I drove by your house the other day- knew it was yours from the caution tape.

Looking good Greens, looking good!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Thank you @Squire515!

Stop by next time. We can be lawn buddies.


----------



## JerseyGreens

mfran615 said:


> How do you fill in this spots after seeding? I seeded 3 weeks ago and I can't get new seed to stay in place. Also, after a heavy rain Monday evening, a lot of the grass has fallen over. Is this just because I need to mow? I haven't mowed it yet. Scared to.


What are you seeding? Oh my reseeding I just stepped on all of the seed. That worked.

Uhh on the grass fallen over. Happened here too - get that cut the minute the ground is dry enough to cut it. Fallen over blades will rot with fungus and you may lose a lot of that stand.

I was pushing off my cut but now am regretting it. It's sunny and windy today. Hopeful the ground dries out by tomorrow morning.


----------



## zeus201

mfran615 said:


> How do you fill in this spots after seeding? I seeded 3 weeks ago and I can't get new seed to stay in place. Also, after a heavy rain Monday evening, a lot of the grass has fallen over. Is this just because I need to mow? I haven't mowed it yet. Scared to.


I, and many others, have used Pennington Slopemaster or PennMulch Seed Accelerator. Both have tackifier which helps bind the seed to the soil to limit seed washing away, not perfect, but helps.

Current height of grass? I'd personally mow if the grass is starting to fall over on to its' self. First mow is always scary. Just let the turf dry out and avoid sharp turns. If it makes you feel any better, my first mows after renos was using heavy reel mower and the grass survived.


----------



## Carlson

Haven't popped into the forum or this thread for a couple weeks due to being crazy-busy at work - everyone's renos are looking awesome!

Quick front yard shot from my yard - did 0.5#N/K over the weekend then had a couple 80+ degree days so the color is really striking in the evenings right now...


----------



## mfran615

JerseyGreens said:


> mfran615 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you fill in this spots after seeding? I seeded 3 weeks ago and I can't get new seed to stay in place. Also, after a heavy rain Monday evening, a lot of the grass has fallen over. Is this just because I need to mow? I haven't mowed it yet. Scared to.
> 
> 
> 
> What are you seeding? Oh my reseeding I just stepped on all of the seed. That worked.
> 
> Uhh on the grass fallen over. Happened here too - get that cut the minute the ground is dry enough to cut it. Fallen over blades will rot with fungus and you may lose a lot of that stand.
> 
> I was pushing off my cut but now am regretting it. It's sunny and windy today. Hopeful the ground dries out by tomorrow morning.
Click to expand...

I did end up mowing hoping it would pick the grass up. Not sure it did much. Mowed at 3.25". Ground wasn't super dry but we are getting rain this afternoon as well as the next 2 days. So it won't be drying out well. Planning on taking it down to 2.75" Saturday if it's dry enough. I put down my first app of AMS as well @ .25lb/m


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> mfran615 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you fill in this spots after seeding? I seeded 3 weeks ago and I can't get new seed to stay in place. Also, after a heavy rain Monday evening, a lot of the grass has fallen over. Is this just because I need to mow? I haven't mowed it yet. Scared to.
> 
> 
> 
> What are you seeding? Oh my reseeding I just stepped on all of the seed. That worked.
> 
> Uhh on the grass fallen over. Happened here too - get that cut the minute the ground is dry enough to cut it. Fallen over blades will rot with fungus and you may lose a lot of that stand.
> 
> I was pushing off my cut but now am regretting it. It's sunny and windy today. Hopeful the ground dries out by tomorrow morning.
Click to expand...

I think the grass that's falling down is normal when you get heavy rain on young grass. I used to get that on my slope areas. It will stand up once it dries up.


----------



## ricwilli

Carlson said:


> Haven't popped into the forum or this thread for a couple weeks due to being crazy-busy at work - everyone's renos are looking awesome!
> 
> Quick front yard shot from my yard - did 0.5#N/K over the weekend then had a couple 80+ degree days so the color is really striking in the evenings right now...


WOW!!!!!


----------



## Squire515

JerseyGreens said:


> Thank you @Squire515!
> 
> Stop by next time. We can be lawn buddies.


You're welcome! Will do


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> mfran615 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... Also, after a heavy rain Monday evening, a lot of the grass has fallen over. Is this just because I need to mow? I haven't mowed it yet. Scared to.
> 
> 
> 
> ... on the grass fallen over. Happened here too - get that cut the minute the ground is dry enough to cut it. Fallen over blades will rot with fungus and you may lose a lot of that stand.
> 
> I was pushing off my cut but now am regretting it. It's sunny and windy today. Hopeful the ground dries out by tomorrow morning.
Click to expand...

Another good way to help with fallen over, matted blades of baby grass is gentle use of a leaf blower. Works wonders!


----------



## elgrow

So I have some bare spots in my back yard that are not coming in as thick as I would have liked. Seed initially went down on 9/13 with germination on 9/18. We had a pretty decent rain which moved some things around and opened up some barespots as all the seed settled with the peat moss and low spots. I threw some more seed down on 9/23 but doesn't seem like it really took. Maybe 1-3 sprouts per little patch of bare dirt.

Would you recommend breaking up the soil and reseeding these spots and covering with some compost/topsoil? Or just waiting a bit more to see what happens.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

elgrow said:


> So I have some bare spots in my back yard that are not coming in as thick as I would have liked. Seed initially went down on 9/13 with germination on 9/18. We had a pretty decent rain which moved some things around and opened up some barespots as all the seed settled with the peat moss and low spots. I threw some more seed down on 9/23 but doesn't seem like it really took. Maybe 1-3 sprouts per little patch of bare dirt.
> 
> Would you recommend breaking up the soil and reseeding these spots and covering with some compost/topsoil? Or just waiting a bit more to see what happens.


I would lightly rake it to loosen some soil, spread the seeds and step on it and then lightly cover with peat moss. How is your watering after you reseeded? I also reseeded few weeks ago and it didn't came out as fast as the initial seeding. I think watering is a big factor for quick germination. Since I'm not watering that often as when I first seeded, it didn't germinate as fast. I felt like the seeds just died because of lack of water. But three weeks after, I started to notice some germination from new seeds. This is my experience in KBG, TTTF might be faster to germinate.


----------



## elgrow

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> elgrow said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I have some bare spots in my back yard that are not coming in as thick as I would have liked. Seed initially went down on 9/13 with germination on 9/18. We had a pretty decent rain which moved some things around and opened up some barespots as all the seed settled with the peat moss and low spots. I threw some more seed down on 9/23 but doesn't seem like it really took. Maybe 1-3 sprouts per little patch of bare dirt.
> 
> Would you recommend breaking up the soil and reseeding these spots and covering with some compost/topsoil? Or just waiting a bit more to see what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would lightly rake it to loosen some soil, spread the seeds and step on it and then lightly cover with peat moss. How is your watering after you reseeded? I also reseeded few weeks ago and it didn't came out as fast as the initial seeding. I think watering is a big factor for quick germination. Since I'm not watering that often as when I first seeded, it didn't germinate as fast. I felt like the seeds just died because of lack of water. But three weeks after, I started to notice some germination from new seeds. This is my experience in KBG, TTTF might be faster to germinate.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice! Yeah TTTF germinates in about 4-10 days for the bulk of it. Some will take a little bit longer but you usually see sprouts pretty quickly.

My watering regimen hasn't changed a whole lot, lots of light watering but I have switched to deeper more infrequent ones since we have had some decent and heavy rain days. You are probably right though about water being super important to germinating seed.


----------



## Lookingup1027

Pythium and fertilizer. I noticed I have some pythium in a couple spots in my renovation of TTTF and KBG. I put down 20oz of Subdue per 1K. I'm coming up on the 30 day after germination and wanted to put down another small app of fertilizer. I have stopped watering to try to help. Does anyone have any ideas on when I can put down the fertilizer? I don't want to encourage the fungus. Thank you!!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Yeah...I'm hooked to the reel.

First cut!


@bf7 : I won't lie the peat moss "mountains" we called them throughout this reno are noticeable but breaking down over time. Not too bad.

My side yard that was beautifully graded before seed down is a bumpy mess since that's where the water flows - as you can tell by those little rivers. All filling in though.


----------



## Carlson

Who likes stripes? Finally felt things were ready for the checkmate with yesterday evening's mow.

Evening shots:


Morning shot of the back:


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> Yeah...I'm hooked to the reel.
> 
> First cut!
> 
> 
> @bf7 : I won't lie the peat moss "mountains" we called them throughout this reno are noticeable but breaking down over time. Not too bad.
> 
> My side yard that was beautifully graded before seed down is a bumpy mess since that's where the water flows - as you can tell by those little rivers. All filling in though.


Yeah they are definitely getting flatter. Mowing helps push them down it seems.

I'm alright with the peat moss. Wish I had used the roller more prior to seed down (I think we discussed this at the time). You really had something there with the asphalt roller. Decent amount of soil settled and washed out so I've got my share of bumps. But it's a vast improvement over the pre-topsoil lawn.

I'm hoping it's flat enough now where if I cap everything with sand next year, it won't bury any turf.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...I'm hooked to the reel.
> 
> First cut!
> 
> 
> @bf7 : I won't lie the peat moss "mountains" we called them throughout this reno are noticeable but breaking down over time. Not too bad.
> 
> My side yard that was beautifully graded before seed down is a bumpy mess since that's where the water flows - as you can tell by those little rivers. All filling in though.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah they are definitely getting flatter. Mowing helps push them down it seems.
> 
> I'm alright with the peat moss. Wish I had used the roller more prior to seed down (I think we discussed this at the time). You really had something there with the asphalt roller. Decent amount of soil settled and washed out so I've got my share of bumps. But it's a vast improvement over the pre-topsoil lawn.
> 
> I'm hoping it's flat enough now where if I cap everything with sand next year, it won't bury any turf.
Click to expand...

You will be fine! It will settle over time. I think reel mowing helps because it's constantly rolling out bumps. Reel mowing is in your future pal!

I had no choice for the roller idea that only happened because of that crazy lady driving on my lawn...first choice was harley rake - didn't like that...tilled too much - then I said screw it... asphalt roller it is.

My advice for those following us...skip the topsoil. Harley rake the first 2-3 inches with high quality compost / regrade with that soil and then asphalt roll everything back down (if the yard is big enough).


----------



## bf7

I know the reel is inevitable lol. I'm in too deep now.


----------



## Di3soft

@bf7 join the dark side


----------



## Chris1

zeus201 said:


> Backyard is starting to feel like a lawn again.
> 
> Pangea PRG mono, 20ish DAG, 2nd mow at 3/4". Looks decent from these angles but still has lots of filling in to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dirt spots in the forefront of the picture is Mazama mono which is TAKING an eternity to do anything.


I was thinking backyard Pangea over seed next Fall . Now I want to smoke Nomix and go Pangea mono. Incredible

Do you have irrigation ?


----------



## kay7711226

First post on this thread, just sharing my Reno, levelling&Overseeding results hopefully can help anyone with questions.

500 sqft Reno....Glypho, topsoil, and seeded with SS5000





Last year's Reno SS5000 mix





Leveling and Overseeding area SS6000 mix


----------



## zeus201

Chris1 said:


> I was thinking backyard Pangea over seed next Fall . Now I want to smoke Nomix and go Pangea mono. Incredible
> 
> Do you have irrigation ?


I do have irrigation. I'd nuke it, gives you a reason to have the grass you want and fix any leveling issues.


----------



## SumBeach35

Juat saw this thread.

Here is 46 DAS on my Mountain View 365SS reno. Its a test section for whatever house the wife and i end up in. Feel free to checkout my progress in my journal

10/3: 46 DAS. 0.5" manual reel mowed


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Question on feeding:
I've been spoon feeding 0.2lbs/M of N every week for the past month. I'm at 44 DAG, until when can I feed my lawn? Should I adjust the rate since it's becoming colder? Increase it or decrease it?


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Question on feeding:
> I've been spoon feeding 0.2lbs/M of N every week for the past month. I'm at 44 DAG, until when can I feed my lawn? Should I adjust the rate since it's becoming colder? Increase it or decrease it?


Following your journal - you are mowing often. I'd stop feeding as soon as you see very few clippings on your mows. That will signal the season of growing is coming to an end.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Question on feeding:
> I've been spoon feeding 0.2lbs/M of N every week for the past month. I'm at 44 DAG, until when can I feed my lawn? Should I adjust the rate since it's becoming colder? Increase it or decrease it?


It's wise to be a careful here. Pushing too much synthetic nitrogen too deep into the fall can encourage continued lush growth of the grass when the grass would normally be slowing down. Not having time to "harden off" for winter increases the likelihood of winterkill, increases the risk of snow mold over the winter, and reduces the amount of carbohydrates the grass will store in the roots.

Without outside fertilization, the availability of nitrogen in the soil to the grass naturally slows down as soil temperatures fall and the biological processes that produce nitrogen start to slow down. So, the grass has this as a signal to decrease growth, the grass stores carbohydrates in the roots, reduces the amount of moisture in the blades, and basically gets ready for the freezing temperatures of winter.

However, with application of fast-release synthetic fertilizers, we can keep the availability of nitrogen in the soil artificially high deep into the fall, when the grass would normally be slowing down growth. This can cause trouble, as the grass won't store as many carbohydrates in the roots, will continue having lush, high-moisture blades, and will be slow in preparing for the freezing temperatures of winter.

In general, the effects of fast-release fertilizers are considered to have worn off in about 1 month (4 weeks). So, if you knew when the grass was going to stop growing, and could back up 4 weeks, that would be the right time to stop fertilizing. The best thing to do is to keep a journal of lawn care activities. You can record in that journal when grass growth stops each year, and then after 3-4 years, you'll know when the date is for your lawn that "grass growth typically stops." I've been keeping those records for five years now and have learned that the sunny portions of my lawn keep growing 1 week longer than the shady portions, and that there is surprisingly little variation from year-to-year of when the grass growth stops for a given section of lawn, despite weather differences. (I wrote about this in a different thread in the last couple months, but basically seasonal changes in solar intensity and the length of days is a bigger factor in when grass growth stops than is the temperature.)

A reasonable "safe approximation" for when to expect your grass growth to stop is to find the "average first frost date" for your location and then add 1 month (4 weeks) to that date. I think that approach typically has about 2 weeks of "safety margin" built in. (In other words, I think it is more likely that your grass will stop growing about 6 weeks after your "average first frost" date.)

_*Note that it is the "average first frost" date that matters for this calculation, not the date of actual first frost*_. As has been mentioned in other threads on this site, the actual first frost doesn't affect our cool season grasses directly. An "early first frost" by two weeks doesn't mean the grass will stop growing two weeks earlier than average, and a "late first frost" doesn't mean the grass will keep growing two weeks longer than average. The actual first frost date can easily vary by as much as a month or more (2-3 weeks earlier or 2-3 weeks later than the average) and will not be as well correlated with the stoppage of top growth as the average first frost date. In five years of keeping close track of "growth stoppage dates" for our lawn, it has varied by less than a week for each section of the lawn, while the actual first frost date has varied by over a month.

As a data point, the "average first frost" for me is September 26th. I have learned that top growth ceases in my shady back and side lawns around November 14-18 and in the sunnier front lawn around November 20-26. Accordingly, I plan to stop my fall fertilization in just 1 more week for the side and back lawn. I also gradually reduce my height of cut in the fall, from the 3.75" cut height I use at the peak of summer, to 2.25" for the final cut after the grass has stopped growing completely. However, the big reason I have for reducing cut height is to avoid snow mold, which will be much less of a risk for you in New Jersey.

Oh, and if you've actually read this far, I'd suggest continuing your current rate of fertilization, 0.2#N/ksqft each week, until the "average first frost" for your location and then, if you're feeling sporty, one week more.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

@JerseyGreens, I sprayed I little amount of PGR last saturday so I'm kinda expecting my clipping to lessen.

@ken-n-nancy, I always enjoy reading your replies, there's so much info in it. Oct 2 is the average frost date in my location. That means I have until Oct 30 to feed.

Thanks for your quick replies!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Are you guys in the Northeast done applying Fungicide?

I might spray a final app of azoxy+propi tank mixed and call it good. Just curious.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Are you guys in the Northeast done applying Fungicide?
> 
> I might spray a final app of azoxy+propi tank mixed and call it good. Just curious.


I'm on the same boat! Based on the pest outlook map, we are still red on take-all patch. And we can still get a series of rain in the next few weeks. Let's hear what others think.


----------



## kay7711226

After my 2nd round of Propi at curative rate I skipped the 2nd Azoxy app(1.5-2" of rain was in the forecast) that was 1 week ago, fungus issues seems under control.


----------



## SumBeach35

JerseyGreens said:


> Are you guys in the Northeast done applying Fungicide?
> 
> I might spray a final app of azoxy+propi tank mixed and call it good. Just curious.


I will be done with fungicides until its time to apply prevention for snow mold


----------



## mfran615

Have a couple questions on how I should finish off the season with my renovation. I'm 4 weeks after seed down. Mowed for the second time tonight at 2.75". I will be applying the weekly dose of AMS tomorrow. Being in NE Ohio, I suspect we have roughly 3-4 weeks before first frost. The next two weeks are pretty mild according to the forecast. My main questions are: 1) how many more apps of AMS at .25 N/M should I do, 2) should I apply tenacity at 45 days (10/22) or a pre-M geared towards stopping weeds in the spring, and 3) what should I apply for my last application of fert to winterize? Thanks for the help!


----------



## zeus201

DAG 28 or so. Pangea PRG mono, 3/4" HOC.


----------



## kay7711226

Reno - Day54 after seed down, DAG41 for PRG/FF and DAG48 for KBG.


----------



## cyrjm

Lots to digest here but I just want to make sure I understand my next steps. About 6 weeks into my TTTF quasi-reno and overseed. Looks amazing, super lush especially with all the rain we got a few weeks ago here in the Atlanta area. I really want to push deep root growth because I'm sick of this patch always thinning out deep into the summer months. Spoon feeding nitrogen...I'm using 10-10-10 fert I bought at Lowes, cheap but the prills are large. Should I be feeding once per week and how many pounds per 1k sqft? I've read in different topics that I could probably push growth into December being in the transition zone. Is there a specific soil temp or air temp threshold that I should be looking for?

As an aside, I have lots of liquid 18-0-1 from N-ext left over. Any benefit to going granular and liquid or should I just stick to granular?


----------



## Di3soft

I am beyond pissed of right now, the assholes with true green that cant read, decided to aerate my entire yard which includes my renovation. I I only realized he was doing my yard when the wife asked who is the backyard I was working in my office. The problem is they spread their shitty seed everywhere. if I am to salvage this, I need to rake up all the cores so it doesnt suffocate my short cut lawn. If I put down Prodiamine at 2 month rate today all over the renovation which is right before 60 DAG would that prevent the seed from germinating?

any other advice?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> I am beyond pissed of right now, the assholes with true green that cant read, decided to aerate my entire yard which includes my renovation. I I only realized he was doing my yard when the wife asked who is the backyard I was working in my office. The problem is they spread their s--- seed everywhere. if I am to salvage this, I need to rake up all the cores so it doesnt suffocate my short cut lawn. If I put down Prodiamine at 2 month rate today all over the renovation which is right before 60 DAG would that prevent the seed from germinating?
> 
> any other advice?


Are you kidding me dude??

Make them reimburse you for your expensive seed and tell them you have to GLY everything and reno it next Fall again. Hold their feet on the fire.

Rent one of these:
https://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equipment/detail/1164/0700003/lawn-vac/

Make them reimburse you for it - hoping a lawn vac can suck up the cores and most of the seed.


----------



## JerseyGreens

SumBeach35 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you guys in the Northeast done applying Fungicide?
> 
> I might spray a final app of azoxy+propi tank mixed and call it good. Just curious.
> 
> 
> 
> I will be done with fungicides until its time to apply prevention for snow mold
Click to expand...

I'm right there with you but as people have seen on my journal my neighbor has a cow pasture front lawn full of fungus and weeds...I'm afraid I see some fungus pressure which is crazy since the nights are cool...


----------



## Di3soft

@JerseyGreens not kidding, my wife who was getting annoyed with all my lawn stuff, is pissed too. I'm waiting on the guys supervisor to get here so I can yell at him cause his guys can't read, he wasn't even on the right street. I don't want to fully renovate the lawn again with how much time I put into this one, I want to punch some thing. I'm hopping prodiamine will stop the germination but can never be sure. I know their seed is filed with crap and I'm not even sure how to process all this right now.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> @JerseyGreens not kidding, my wife who was getting annoyed with all my lawn stuff, is pissed too. I'm waiting on the guys supervisor to get here so I can yell at him cause his guys can't read, he wasn't even on the right street. I don't want to fully renovate the lawn again with how much time I put into this one, I want to punch some thing. I'm hopping prodiamine will stop the germination but can never be sure. I know their seed is filed with crap and I'm not even sure how to process all this right now.


Been there man - I know the feeling when someone did donuts in my front yard but no seed was down thank God.

See if they can vacuum it up - and have the Prodiamine to finish off any stragglers.


----------



## Di3soft

That's the hope, I'm going to call their corporate office and go all "Karen" on them.


----------



## psider25

bf7 said:


> All great points @ken-n-nancy
> 
> Here is some encouragement for those struggling with overcrowded (the light green) spots. This is what 2 spoon feedings of nitrogen can do. The area by the tree is about halfway to full recovery. Sorry the pics aren't from exactly the same angle.
> 
> Before N (light green, yellow, diseased)
> 
> 
> 
> After N (dark green creeping in)


@bf7 did you just hit the grass with N to get rid of all that yellowing in the overcrowding areas? Or did you actually have to use fungicide? I am trying to go without a systemic fungicide for as long as possible to promote mycorrhizae in the lawn. @ken-n-nancy and @Virginiagal i think you were both going after promotion of mycorrhizae in the lawn ... any worry of putting down disease ex for possible red thread in newly seeded KBG overcrowding areas?


----------



## JerseyGreens

I think I'm having fungus issues.

Should I go curative rates?


----------



## Carlson

Front yard reno @ ~43 DAG


Back yard overseed @ ~48 DAG


----------



## bf7

@psider25 I used both. Azoxy (which supposedly has excellent control over red thread) when I first caught the disease. I didn't use N as a reaction to the fungus perse, the start of my spoon feedings just happened to coincide timing wise.

Disease is under control now. I think the Azoxy helped to prevent spread, and N helped dark green to spread and take over lime green areas. The spot by the tree is full dark green now. This pic was taken today (see right of tree). I can get a close-up tomorrow - remind me if I forget. But anyway you can't tell any difference in color from the far away shot.


----------



## SumBeach35

365ss

52 DAS, 45 DAG







Spread XGRN tonight before some rain tomorrow. Watered it in lightly.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Di3soft said:


> I am beyond pissed of right now, the assholes with true green that cant read, decided to aerate my entire yard which includes my renovation. I I only realized he was doing my yard when the wife asked who is the backyard I was working in my office. The problem is they spread their s--- seed everywhere. if I am to salvage this, I need to rake up all the cores so it doesnt suffocate my short cut lawn. If I put down Prodiamine at 2 month rate today all over the renovation which is right before 60 DAG would that prevent the seed from germinating?
> 
> any other advice?


Why are they even in your lawn? Same thing happened to me when guys from lawn-x seeded the spot where they replaced the sprinkler head. That was when I was fallowing the new topsoil for my reno. I brought the shop vac out to vacuum the seeds. But it's really annoying man! They should have asked first before seeding. Have them pay for your reno!! They should understand how much work you put in to that lawn.


----------



## Di3soft

@shadowlawnjutsu if I could I would use the shop vac but it would be impossible to get it all. The supervisor never came, I called corporate and I will call them every single business day until this is resolved. The amount of money and time I put into this just to be ruined because the guy can read what street he is on. He didn't transpose a number he was straight up on the wrong street.


----------



## Di3soft

I'm not sure how all this impact the leveling I did cause there are chunks missing in places. Guess I find out when I mow with the GM tomorrow.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

They should give you a free lawn renovation next year with the seeds you prefer!


----------



## Di3soft

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> They should give you a free lawn renovation next year with the seeds you prefer!


The seeding wasn't that expensive it's everything else that went into it. The leveling, the watering, all the tools and products I bought. I know I'll still have those just won't have the lawn to show for all the hard work. 
Maybe I can get them to pay for an irrigation system so I don't have to baby sit the sprinklers and move them constantly to mow. I'd be ok with that. Then kill off the grass and start again next fall


----------



## wino_tim

Really sorry to hear what happened, man.

Keep us updated on what TruGreen does.


----------



## bf7

What do you guys think this is? Tip burn from too much N? This portion of the yard is relatively dry so I doubt it's fungus.

Any thoughts @ken-n-nancy?


----------



## ken-n-nancy

bf7 said:


> What do you guys think this is? Tip burn from too much N? This portion of the yard is relatively dry so I doubt it's fungus.
> 
> Any thoughts @ken-n-nancy?


Hmm. I've never seen those "dead tips" in our lawn before, so I haven't previously researched what it could be. My first thought when you mentioned "tip burn" is damage due to a dull mower, but whatever you have is even on uncut blades, so it's not mower damage.

That's a good picture of whatever it is, though. Hopefully somebody else with more experience is following this thread and will be able to identify it.

Is it widespread across the entire lawn, or limited to a smaller area?


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> What do you guys think this is? Tip burn from too much N? This portion of the yard is relatively dry so I doubt it's fungus.
> 
> Any thoughts @ken-n-nancy?


Have you had any frost in your area?


----------



## bf7

@ken-n-nancy thanks for taking a look. Fairly widespread as I started looking very closely today, but this is by far the worst area.

@JerseyGreens not a hard frost yet, but we've had plenty of nights get into the mid 30s. Some crabgrass is dead. Have you seen this as a side effect of frost?


----------



## ken-n-nancy

bf7 said:


> @JerseyGreens not a hard frost yet, but we've had plenty of nights get into the mid 30s. Some crabgrass is dead. Have you seen this as a side effect of frost?


That doesn't look like frost damage to a cool season grass. Generally, cool season grass doesn't have any trouble with frosts in the fall, unless something physically crushes the blades while they are frozen. (Walking across a frosted lawn will result in nice brown footprints about 3-4 days later.)

If cool season lawns suffer any frost damage, it tends to be when there is a hard frost in late spring and lots of new, tender growth (that isn't expecting frost) gets hit.

Even in five years of renovations here in New Hampshire, with frost getting on the new grass in every one of those renovations, I've never seen anything like what is pictured.


----------



## SumBeach35

bf7 said:


> What do you guys think this is? Tip burn from too much N? This portion of the yard is relatively dry so I doubt it's fungus.
> 
> Any thoughts @ken-n-nancy?


Have you recently sprayed any NPK? Looks like what happened to me.

This is what happened when i tried to save time and combined Peter's 20-20-20 @ 0.13lb/M and Soaker Plus. Lesson learned the hard way, dont combine wetting agents and NPK


----------



## bf7

SumBeach35 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you guys think this is? Tip burn from too much N? This portion of the yard is relatively dry so I doubt it's fungus.
> 
> Any thoughts @ken-n-nancy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you recently sprayed any NPK? Looks like what happened to me.
> 
> This is what happened when i tried to save time and combined Peter's 20-20-20 @ 0.13lb/M and Soaker Plus. Lesson learned the hard way, dont combine wetting agents and NPK
Click to expand...

Interesting. Did your grass recover ok? At my last N feeding on Tuesday I did mix in a little Air8 which has some K in it. Haven't used P in a while.

The Air8 was a very small dose. Like 3 oz/k where the label recommends at least 6 oz I think.


----------



## SumBeach35

bf7 said:


> SumBeach35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you guys think this is? Tip burn from too much N? This portion of the yard is relatively dry so I doubt it's fungus.
> 
> Any thoughts @ken-n-nancy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you recently sprayed any NPK? Looks like what happened to me.
> 
> This is what happened when i tried to save time and combined Peter's 20-20-20 @ 0.13lb/M and Soaker Plus. Lesson learned the hard way, dont combine wetting agents and NPK
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting. Did your grass recover ok? At my last N feeding on Tuesday I did mix in a little Air8 which has some K in it. Haven't used P in a while.
> 
> The Air8 was a very small dose. Like 3 oz/k where the label recommends at least 6 oz I think.
Click to expand...

Yes it did. Cut it off with the manual reel and it was all gone. I highly doubt the Air8 played a role, the amount of actual K in the jug is marginal.

What was the rate of N you sprayed and what source?

Not a close up but this is 45 DAG and doing well.


----------



## bf7

SumBeach35 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SumBeach35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you recently sprayed any NPK? Looks like what happened to me.
> 
> This is what happened when i tried to save time and combined Peter's 20-20-20 @ 0.13lb/M and Soaker Plus. Lesson learned the hard way, dont combine wetting agents and NPK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Did your grass recover ok? At my last N feeding on Tuesday I did mix in a little Air8 which has some K in it. Haven't used P in a while.
> 
> The Air8 was a very small dose. Like 3 oz/k where the label recommends at least 6 oz I think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it did. Cut it off with the manual reel and it was all gone. I highly doubt the Air8 played a role, the amount of actual K in the jug is marginal.
> 
> What was the rate of N you sprayed and what source?
> 
> Not a close up but this is 45 DAG and doing well.
Click to expand...

Good deal. Looks great! What HOC is that?

Urea at 0.25 lbs N/k. Been doing every 6 days. Today was the first time I went more frequent at 4 days since the last. And noticed the burnt tips right after I put it down of course :x


----------



## SumBeach35

bf7 said:


> SumBeach35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Did your grass recover ok? At my last N feeding on Tuesday I did mix in a little Air8 which has some K in it. Haven't used P in a while.
> 
> The Air8 was a very small dose. Like 3 oz/k where the label recommends at least 6 oz I think.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it did. Cut it off with the manual reel and it was all gone. I highly doubt the Air8 played a role, the amount of actual K in the jug is marginal.
> 
> What was the rate of N you sprayed and what source?
> 
> Not a close up but this is 45 DAG and doing well.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good deal. Looks great! What HOC is that?
> 
> Urea at 0.25 lbs N/k. Been doing every 6 days. Today was the first time I went more frequent at 4 days since the last. And noticed the burnt tips right after I put it down of course :x
Click to expand...

I am cutting at 0.5" setting on my Earthwise 7 blade manual reel.

I would consider switching to a slightly longer time between apps with the daylight dwindling. I am already noticing reduced clippings on my reno.


----------



## bf7

@SumBeach35 goin low man! Love it!

I'm definitely going to slow down the N. We're having a surge in temps this week so I was trying to push growth as much as I could. That was the reason for the shortened cycle this time.


----------



## SumBeach35

bf7 said:


> @SumBeach35 goin low man! Love it!
> 
> I'm definitely going to slow down the N. We're having a surge in temps this week so I was trying to push growth as much as I could. That was the reason for the shortened cycle this time.


Understandable. Yesterday was likely our last day over 70 for this year


----------



## JerseyGreens

Did anyone skip the Lime apps per their soil tests and wait for later in fall?

Just curious when its safe for me to hit my lawn with the necessary amount of lime.

Thanks!


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> Did anyone skip the Lime apps per their soil tests and wait for later in fall?
> 
> Just curious when its safe for me to hit my lawn with the necessary amount of lime.


Lime is comparatively slow to take effect in the grass. An ideal time to apply lime to a newly-seeded lawn is at the time grass growth has ceased for the year. I would presume in NJ that would be somewhen between Thanksgiving and Christmas. That way, the lime will be on the soil and starting to wash down into it for at least a few weeks or so before the ground freezes, and be able to spread even more during spring freeze/thaw cycles.


----------



## JerseyGreens

ken-n-nancy said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did anyone skip the Lime apps per their soil tests and wait for later in fall?
> 
> Just curious when its safe for me to hit my lawn with the necessary amount of lime.
> 
> 
> 
> Lime is comparatively slow to take effect in the grass. An ideal time to apply lime to a newly-seeded lawn is at the time grass growth has ceased for the year. I would presume in NJ that would be somewhen between Thanksgiving and Christmas. That way, the lime will be on the soil and starting to wash down into it for at least a few weeks or so before the ground freezes, and be able to spread even more during spring freeze/thaw cycles.
Click to expand...

Thank you!!


----------



## SumBeach35

Stripes update on the reno. Flex 21 is a great roller. 0.5" HOC using the manual reel

48 DAG


----------



## Slingblade_847

bf7 said:


> What do you guys think this is? Tip burn from too much N? This portion of the yard is relatively dry so I doubt it's fungus.
> 
> Any thoughts @ken-n-nancy?


@bf7 my man. I got the exact same issue. Given how close I am with the N applications compared to yours, my best guess is some tip burn. It's only the tips. @JerseyGreens ....hold your comments to yourself on that one. :lol:

But you sir are looking good!

I think I'm done for the season on spraying urea. I'll be putting her to bed with some Milo at .5lbN/k and calling it a wrap, and just keep mowing until the clippings end.


----------



## Slingblade_847

Anyone else battling skunks?! Every few days I wake up and find divots of ripped up grass. Nothing too significant yet, but awaiting the morning I inspect the lawn and fall over face first in disgust.

I don't think putting down grub killer will have much of an impact now. And I'm not even sure they are going after grubs or earth worms. Never noticed grubs when I was digging everywhere during the reno phase.

Let me know if anyone has some good home remedies of deterrent.

Here is a SMALL sample of what they are doing. Some spots worse than others, but it's essentially all over the lawn.


----------



## bf7

Slingblade_847 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you guys think this is? Tip burn from too much N? This portion of the yard is relatively dry so I doubt it's fungus.
> 
> Any thoughts @ken-n-nancy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @bf7 my man. I got the exact same issue. Given how close I am with the N applications compared to yours, my best guess is some tip burn. It's only the tips. @JerseyGreens ....hold your comments to yourself on that one. :lol:
> 
> But you sir are looking good!
> 
> I think I'm done for the season on spraying urea. I'll be putting her to bed with some Milo at .5lbN/k and calling it a wrap, and just keep mowing until the clippings end.
Click to expand...

Haha I wanted to say that. Let you take the credit for it. But yeah, it's not spreading down the leaf so I'm not too worried.

Yours was looking pretty darn nice too last I checked. Did the N get rid of those yellow spots?


----------



## JerseyGreens

@bf7 
@Slingblade_847

Could you guys stop talking about your tips! :lol:

I couldn't help that one man!


----------



## Di3soft

@JerseyGreens at least it just their tips and not more...


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> @JerseyGreens at least it just their tips and not more...


You know I'm joking right?

Burning tips you know...last time I had that was back in college...

Loosen up a little. TruGreen is going to make you whole again!


----------



## Di3soft

JerseyGreens said:


> Di3soft said:
> 
> 
> 
> @JerseyGreens at least it just their tips and not more...
> 
> 
> 
> You know I'm joking right?
> 
> Burning tips you know...last time I had that was back in college...
> 
> Loosen up a little. TruGreen is going to make you whole again!
Click to expand...

Haha I was actually trying to go with the joke and not even thinking about anything else.


----------



## Di3soft

Guess my joking had gotten pretty bad recently, dad jokes are all I know these days


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> Guess my joking had gotten pretty bad recently, dad jokes are all I know these days


Dude that's my bad. Had no idea you were playing along. My fault!!


----------



## Di3soft

JerseyGreens said:


> Di3soft said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guess my joking had gotten pretty bad recently, dad jokes are all I know these days
> 
> 
> 
> Dude that's my bad. Had no idea you were playing along. My fault!!
Click to expand...

Haha all good I've been doing a lot of venting here so I get it


----------



## JerseyGreens

Need to read through the Iron thread on TLF. Have a lot to learn before my first FEature app.

Just bought some CA and a ph meter on amazon. For those with expertise in this arena feel free to give me a first FEature app for dummies summary please!


----------



## Di3soft

Here is what I did.

2 gallons of warm water
Add enough CA slowly until water was at 4
Then slowly added all the feature while mixing with the drill
Then added urea and mixed

Then sprayed an hour later once the water cooled down a bit.


----------



## Di3soft

Same process as doing FAS application, just replace feature with ferrous iron and urea with ammonium sulfate


----------



## JerseyGreens

Thank you @Di3soft - is it imperative to be at 1G per K for this application? Water in or leave on foliar overnight?


----------



## Di3soft

I think 1G is recommended, foliar app I spray in the late after noon and it gets watered in the following morning


----------



## Slingblade_847

bf7 said:


> But yeah, it's not spreading down the leaf so I'm not too worried.


I read this and about pissed my pants and spit out my drink. Thinking....pretty sure I said the same thing in college. Lol. "....As long as it doesn't spread, I should be fine....".

The N did cure the yellowing, and have a more uniformed look. I need to do some updates in my journal, but need to get the photos.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Slingblade_847 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But yeah, it's not spreading down the leaf so I'm not too worried.
> 
> 
> 
> I read this and about pissed my pants and spit out my drink. Thinking....pretty sure I said the same thing in college. Lol. "....As long as it doesn't spread, I should be fine....".
> 
> The N did cure the yellowing, and have a more uniformed look. I need to do some updates in my journal, but need to get the photos.
Click to expand...

:lol: this is getting too funny!


----------



## Di3soft

@Slingblade_847 do an app of FAS too so it pops for the last few weeks!

As you know a few applications can cure all your "ailments", and don't have to worry about spreading....


----------



## JerseyGreens

Finally went "reel low" on my reno...around 1inch give or take (maybe 7/8).

LOTS of crazy looking stuff I can see now...definitely some fox urine burn...ok no big deal.

The lawn has an overall...weird yellow/fungus hue to do it...also reminds me of the color before I started hitting it up N...could just be under-fertilized but would love some of you guys to give me some input on my reno journal. Thanks!


----------



## Di3soft

How does it feel to get it below an inch? Feels good huh?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> How does it feel to get it below an inch? Feels good huh?


Feels amazing. I felt that "carpet" feel under my feet and it's just...something else...

Also think cutting down this low showed me some issues.


----------



## Di3soft

Yea it feels great at that heigh, I cut mine at 21mm so .82". It definitely shows you trouble areas and things you didn't know were even there


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> Yea it feels great at that heigh, I cut mine at 21mm so .82". It definitely shows you trouble areas and things you didn't know were even there


Yeah...some of the stuff I found today is scaring me but can't do much since I drop fungicide this past weekend.

I also broke the hell out of the 1/3 rule...to me that only comes in play during summer stress and lack of irrigation...


----------



## Di3soft

Yea I've had to break the 1/3rd rule a few time because of the weather, and the ground being to wet even for my rotary mower let alone the greens mower


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

I'll be breaking the 1/3 rule today since I haven't mow in a while because of the rain. Although I did use a small amount of pgr a week ago, but still got some growth.


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> I'll be breaking the 1/3 rule today since I haven't mow in a while because of the rain. Although I did use a small amount of pgr a week ago, but still got some growth.


What PGR are you going to use on the lawn?

I'm leaning to Anuew.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be breaking the 1/3 rule today since I haven't mow in a while because of the rain. Although I did use a small amount of pgr a week ago, but still got some growth.
> 
> 
> 
> What PGR are you going to use on the lawn?
> 
> I'm leaning to Anuew.
Click to expand...

I used a very small amount of T-nex, 0.1/Ksqft. I sprayed it on 10/3.


----------



## Di3soft

JerseyGreens said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be breaking the 1/3 rule today since I haven't mow in a while because of the rain. Although I did use a small amount of pgr a week ago, but still got some growth.
> 
> 
> 
> What PGR are you going to use on the lawn?
> 
> I'm leaning to Anuew.
Click to expand...

I sprayed .3oz per ksqft of T-Nex a few weeks back, the grass clippings got alot smaller I mow twice a week now and take off very little at a time


----------



## rob13psu

Slingblade_847 said:


> Anyone else battling skunks?! Every few days I wake up and find divots of ripped up grass. Nothing too significant yet, but awaiting the morning I inspect the lawn and fall over face first in disgust.
> 
> I don't think putting down grub killer will have much of an impact now. And I'm not even sure they are going after grubs or earth worms. Never noticed grubs when I was digging everywhere during the reno phase.
> 
> Let me know if anyone has some good home remedies of deterrent.
> 
> Here is a SMALL sample of what they are doing. Some spots worse than others, but it's essentially all over the lawn.


This looks like squirrel "damage" to me. I have spots like that every year when they start going crazy with acorns. You won't even notice these spots next spring if that's the case.


----------



## SumBeach35

53 DAG







Hand pulled some Poa A and applied Peters 20-20-20 & FEature.


----------



## kay7711226

***Reno*** - Day65 after seed down, DAG62 for PRG/FF and DAG57 for KBG.
***Overseeding*** - Day 49 since seed down. DAG 45.

Front(south) double stripped HOC 2" SS5000 mix



Reno - (South west) Mowed with Manual Reel and JD HOC 13/16 SS5000 mix



Overseeding-North facing HOC 2" SS6000mix with SS5000/KBG overseeding



Overseeding-East facing double stripped HOC 2" SS6000mix with SS5000/KBG overseeding



**Neighbor's Lawn update***
- Day35 seed down, DAG31

Newsome Trio Mix

HOC 2"


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

This is 65 DAS/58 DAG. Could be in the peak performance of the lawn since growth is starting to slow down.


----------



## SumBeach35

65 DAG







Prodiamine down last weekend. Tenacity @ 5oz/A will be the first app in the spring

It could use some N but with how much rain we have had, i am holding off. 10 of the last 11 days we have had rain.


----------



## SumBeach35

*365ss Reno*
Very few clippings after 2 days. Snow mold fungicide app and ground cover is planned for right before the first substantial snowfall, likely around the week of Thanksgiving. Will change based off weather.







AMS 0.2lb/N/M and Ethofumesate 0.56 oz/M applied


----------



## bf7

SumBeach35 said:


> *365ss Reno*
> Very few clippings after 2 days. Snow mold fungicide app and ground cover is planned for right before the first substantial snowfall, likely around the week of Thanksgiving. Will change based off weather.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMS 0.2lb/N/M and Ethofumesate 0.56 oz/M applied


Looks awesome. I've been chickening out on putting down Ethofumesate on the reno, though I have it on hand. Will be very interested to see your results. Do you have a lot of poa a?


----------



## SumBeach35

bf7 said:


> SumBeach35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *365ss Reno*
> Very few clippings after 2 days. Snow mold fungicide app and ground cover is planned for right before the first substantial snowfall, likely around the week of Thanksgiving. Will change based off weather.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMS 0.2lb/N/M and Ethofumesate 0.56 oz/M applied
> 
> 
> 
> Looks awesome. I've been chickening out on putting down Ethofumesate on the reno, though I have it on hand. Will be very interested to see your results. Do you have a lot of poa a?
Click to expand...

There is a decent amount of Poa a but my original plan was to just spray tenacity at 5 oz/A in spring and handpull since the size of my KBG reno is small. While reading the label i decided to do a bit of a test and see how spring turf quality is effected, as it states on the label it can be reduced. With the color still being fairly close to poa a, i just sprayed it and will see what happens. It is after the 8 week time frame for spraying on a KBG reno. Some of the added Pre-m control will also be welcome over winter


----------



## JerseyGreens

I've been using Azoxy and Propi often during my reno with great success.

Will have some nice warm weather this week to get another fungicide app down.

Can you guys recommend something (other than Propi and Azoxy) for me to consider - I'm hoping from a different control group but not sure what to pick.

Thanks!


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> I've been using Azoxy and Propi often during my reno with great success.
> 
> Will have some nice warm weather this week to get another fungicide app down.
> 
> Can you guys recommend something (other than Propi and Azoxy) for me to consider - I'm hoping from a different control group but not sure what to pick.
> 
> Thanks!


The 3rd fungicide I am rotating in is Cleary 3336 EG (Group 1), though I don't think I'll use it until next year. I wanted to avoid Groups 3 and 11, to which propi and azoxy belong respectively. Group 1 appeared to control the most diseases out of all the remaining groups, and based on my research Cleary 3336 EG was the best value $ wise.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been using Azoxy and Propi often during my reno with great success.
> 
> Will have some nice warm weather this week to get another fungicide app down.
> 
> Can you guys recommend something (other than Propi and Azoxy) for me to consider - I'm hoping from a different control group but not sure what to pick.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> The 3rd fungicide I am rotating in is Cleary 3336 EG (Group 1), though I don't think I'll use it until next year. I wanted to avoid Groups 3 and 11, to which propi and azoxy belong respectively. Group 1 appeared to control the most diseases out of all the remaining groups, and based on my research Cleary 3336 EG was the best value $ wise.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Definitely a cost effective option...which I need to start keeping a closer eye on since the reel life isn't cheap!


----------



## Di3soft

Any idea what's going on with my KBG reno? Feel like it's been too cold for fungus, but I don't know. Have this in a bunch of places all over


----------



## SumBeach35

Di3soft said:


> Any idea what's going on with my KBG reno? Feel like it's been too cold for fungus, but I don't know. Have this in a bunch of places all over


Any recent frost or snow? Any recent fertilizer apps?


----------



## Di3soft

@SumBeach35 no snow, no firt, we have a quite a few night/morning frosts


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> Any idea what's going on with my KBG reno? Feel like it's been too cold for fungus, but I don't know. Have this in a bunch of places all over


Tough to say but I will say that fungus can thrive at different temps.

I read your journal - you got a ton of rain late OCT. Leads me to believe that this could be soil borne. Wait for a warm day and put fungicide down. Should help


----------



## SumBeach35

Di3soft said:


> @SumBeach35 no snow, no firt, we have a quite a few night/morning frosts


Im believe it could be frost burn especially if its widespread throughout the lawn. KBG tends to get tip burn from frost in my experience.


----------



## Di3soft

@JerseyGreens i thought that too at first but it's everywhere couldn't imagine fungus hitting the entire lawn at once but who knows .@SumBeach35 just looked it up and it does look like frost burn a lot.

Will keep and eye on it for now, already used propi twice this fall.


----------



## bf7

Anyone going aggressive on N for their reno during this November heat wave? I thought I was done almost 2 weeks ago ...but now looking at the forecast. The highs aren't dropping below 55 until around 11/20. Straight 70s the next week. I dropped some N yesterday and now thinking of doing more in a week or so. Am I crazy?

This is turning out to be a great growing season btw (minus the washouts).


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Anyone going aggressive on N for their reno during this November heat wave? I thought I was done almost 2 weeks ago ...but now looking at the forecast. The highs aren't dropping below 55 until around 11/20. Straight 70s the next week. I dropped some N yesterday and now thinking of doing more in a week or so. Am I crazy?
> 
> This is turning out to be a great growing season btw (minus the washouts).


My thoughts - if it's fast acting / Urea or AMS - it won't hurt.

I woke up maybe one or two days to actual frost glazed all over the entire lawn it was gone by 9:30AM.

If the grass is growing, temps are right, I vote to feed it with fast acting.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone going aggressive on N for their reno during this November heat wave? I thought I was done almost 2 weeks ago ...but now looking at the forecast. The highs aren't dropping below 55 until around 11/20. Straight 70s the next week. I dropped some N yesterday and now thinking of doing more in a week or so. Am I crazy?
> 
> This is turning out to be a great growing season btw (minus the washouts).
> 
> 
> 
> My thoughts - if it's fast acting / Urea or AMS - it won't hurt.
> 
> I woke up maybe one or two days to actual frost glazed all over the entire lawn it was gone by 9:30AM.
> 
> If the grass is growing, temps are right, I vote to feed it with fast acting.
Click to expand...

Me too. I could almost get through my entire 50 lb bag of urea this season, and my first feeding wasn't even from that bag. Insane!

My neighbors with longer grass have a very slight frost but my lawn isn't getting it. Not sure why. The lows have been around 39.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Anyone here doing a winterizer app once our turf really stops growing?


----------



## kay7711226

JerseyGreens said:


> Anyone here doing a winterizer app once our turf really stops growing?


will be doing an experimental app but based on this below I think most people are moving away from doing winterizing apps


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> Anyone here doing a winterizer app once our turf really stops growing?


I am not doing winterizer fert.

What about water? We aren't supposed to get rain for another 5 days. Did you already winterize your irrigation?


----------



## JerseyGreens

@bf7 I pushed back my winterization - thank God. Hit nearly 80 degrees today.

Will water tomorrow AM - just got a cut in...

and its with sad news that I report that my clippings are finally slowing down big time...depressing times are coming near...


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> @bf7 I pushed back my winterization - thank God. Hit nearly 80 degrees today.
> 
> Will water tomorrow AM - just got a cut in...
> 
> and its with sad news that I report that my clippings are finally slowing down big time...depressing times are coming near...


Mine too. Color looks fantastic though since it got warm again. Not seeing any tenacity bleach yet on the KBG but if it shows up, praying it grows out before winter.

I'm probably done watering. We are getting heavy rains Wednesday.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Di3soft said:


> Any idea what's going on with my KBG reno? Feel like it's been too cold for fungus, but I don't know. Have this in a bunch of places all over


hey man - did it grow out of this? Just curious.

I've been chasing/staying ahead of fungus all reno basically.

Hoping that wasn't the case here.


----------



## Di3soft

@JerseyGreens we haven't had too much growth recently due to colder weather, we had a week of warm weather and it hasn't spread so im guessing it was frost burn, other wise I would of expected to see it spreading.


----------



## SumBeach35

*11/8: 75 DAG
*
0.5" manual reel mow and XGRN app. The AMS/Etho/NIS combo did some damage and took the color out of it. Dont mix fertilizer and surfactant's, its bad mmmmkay







Overall, still happy with the grow in. Likely do one more app of AMS/FEature to round out the season.


----------



## SumBeach35

*365ss reno

80 DAG*







Will be done mowing it soon. Believe we'll have a hard freeze in the next week. Part of the snow mold app will go down today, final contact fungicide and ground cover won't go down until snow looks like it will be around or around Thanksgiving time.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Who needs some fresh sod?


----------



## rob13psu

JerseyGreens said:


> Who needs some fresh sod?


Wow, that is impressive sidewalk growth right there.


----------



## JerseyGreens

rob13psu said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs some fresh sod?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that is impressive sidewalk growth right there.
Click to expand...

I had a ton of washout. Good chance that's what most of this was.

KBG can officially thrive anywhere. The root netting holding the pieces together on the bottom is absolutely impressive. I'll have to snap some shots of it.


----------



## SumBeach35

JerseyGreens said:


> Who needs some fresh sod?


Hopefully you put all of that to good use


----------



## JerseyGreens

SumBeach35 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs some fresh sod?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully you put all of that to good use
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I haven't. It pains me to see a wheelbarrow full of BlueBank Sod but I just don't have time right now.

It's still alive and kicking, might plug some away on Thanksgiving.


----------



## SumBeach35

JerseyGreens said:


> SumBeach35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs some fresh sod?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully you put all of that to good use
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately I haven't. It pains me to see a wheelbarrow full of BlueBank Sod but I just don't have time right now.
> 
> It's still alive and kicking, might plug some away on Thanksgiving.
Click to expand...

It will take, scratch up the ground and put it down. It will take. I did it with my 365ss the first time i edged and it was crazy.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Anyone still mowing or all we all done with our reno(s)!?


----------



## SumBeach35

I am all done. Only thing left to do is apply contact fungicide and apply ground cover.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> Anyone still mowing or all we all done with our reno(s)!?


Got a foot of snow the other day. Mother nature has forced me to end it.

I refuse to accept reality, so I'm taking an extra long time to winterize my mower. Treated the fuel last weekend, change the oil this weekend, etc. Dragging out any semblance of lawn care as long as I can.


----------



## Lust4Lawn

The funny thing is that we got no accumulation further north.


----------



## kay7711226

Thought I was done mowing last weekend but.....here I am today cranking up the JD and hitting the Reno area. I think that's it for the year!


----------



## SumBeach35

*108 DAG*







Been an odd start to winter here in Upstate NY. 1st part of the snow mold prevention went down a few weeks ago. Contact fungicides will likely go down this weekend and ground cover will be placed.


----------



## SumBeach35

*12/13:* Contact fungicides sprayed and ground cover applied to the 365SS KBG reno.


----------



## Airbender

Dated: 12/30/20

2020 Reno
DAG 82
Front Lawn
365SS (~80%) + PRG (~20%)

This is after spoon-feeding, last of which was in mid-November.
The yellow/light green spots have darkened, through some till left. Likely due to un-even application of the fertilizer on my part.





Previously


Airbender said:


> DAG 18 pictures are at https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=336950#p336950


----------



## JerseyGreens

Can some of you guys share you winter pics on KBG Reno's? Mine is turning a weird Yellow, lime color and I don't know what winter dormant KBG should look like. Oddly enough I have some areas that are super dark green as well.

I'm hoping it's all normal and not some crazy fungus.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Can some of you guys share you winter pics on KBG Reno's? Mine is turning a weird Yellow, lime color and I don't know what winter dormant KBG should look like. Oddly enough I have some areas that are super dark green as well.
> 
> I'm hoping it's all normal and not some crazy fungus.


Mine is just starting to turn yellow. Here's a shot from my wyze cam. It looks darker at the back because it's in a shade but they're actually almost the same color. It's still the greenest in the neighborhood.


----------



## bf7

@JerseyGreens
@shadowlawnjutsu

Glad to hear from y'all again! Mine has really gone downhill over the past month. I'm chalking it up 100% to the cold. Temps have been consistently 25-35 here so I don't think fungus could be on the attack.

The color change is everywhere, but oddly there are a lot of dark green blades mixed in with the yellow ones.

The dog days of winter are truly brutal. Here it is on Christmas Eve and today.

12/24/20




1/19/21 (Chernobyl)


----------



## JerseyGreens

Hey guys thanks for sharing - I'll send some pics tomorrow. Looks like mine isn't the only one that looks like complete crap.

@bf7 you still have strips man!


----------



## bf7

Haha can't believe it. Still there after almost 2 months. Beautiful brown stripes.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Alright so here we go - looks oddly like the "fungus" I was chasing in my reno...widespread "yellow" tinge on the lawn that would normally clear up with fungicide...

Could it be all along this is just how KBG gets when the N runs near Empty? Would love for the regulars to jump in and hooray for starting to revive this thread!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

I have some patches of brown/yellow too. But I'm not too worried about it.

Here's a closeup




After removing the decorations I mowed with a dull blade that's why I got these browning at the tips.


----------



## synergy0852

I believe g-man explained the spring after a reno to prepare for it to look awful, but not to stress as it's normal and will begin to look like we want it to as temps warm.

My lawn looks similar to what you guys are seeing for what it's worth.


----------



## JerseyGreens

synergy0852 said:


> I believe g-man explained the spring after a reno to prepare for it to look awful, but not to stress as it's normal and will begin to look like we want it to as temps warm.
> 
> My lawn looks similar to what you guys are seeing for what it's worth.


Thanks! Temps can't warm up any sooner! I'm ready to go...


----------



## Green

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> After removing the decorations I mowed with a dull blade that's why I got these browning at the tips.


You mowed in the middle of January?!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Green said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> After removing the decorations I mowed with a dull blade that's why I got these browning at the tips.
> 
> 
> 
> You mowed in the middle of January?!
Click to expand...

Yes I did, we put the Christmas decorations early and grass grew after we remove it. Plus I like mowing!


----------



## Green

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Yes I did, we put the Christmas decorations early and grass grew after we remove it. Plus I like mowing!


What date? I think you have the record for latest (earliest?) mow into Winter for a Northern lawn in this group. Last year, @Chris LI mowed around New Year's.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Green said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I did, we put the Christmas decorations early and grass grew after we remove it. Plus I like mowing!
> 
> 
> 
> What date? I think you have the record for latest (earliest?) mow into Winter for a Northern lawn in this group. Last year, @Chris LI mowed around New Year's.
Click to expand...

It's on Jan 9.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I did, we put the Christmas decorations early and grass grew after we remove it. Plus I like mowing!
> 
> 
> 
> What date? I think you have the record for latest (earliest?) mow into Winter for a Northern lawn in this group. Last year, @Chris LI mowed around New Year's.
Click to expand...

Funny you mention this. I never got my last mow in during December, when it snowed, so it's a little shaggy. I contemplated it for last weekend, but I had to work on my truck and get started on taking Xmas lights down (and it rained on Friday), so I skipped it. :lol: It dropped to 22* last night, which is the coldest it's been lately, so it's no longer an option. The grass tips were brown when I got home from work today.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

These weeds turned my whole lawn to white and it spreads faster than Poa!



Enjoy the snow and stay safe, everyone!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Hi everyone, I'm back! Spring is around the corner, can't wait. What are your plans for pre-em?

Some of the snow in my lawn has already melt but the soil so soggy.


----------



## YankeeintheSouth

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Hi everyone, I'm back! Spring is around the corner, can't wait. What are your plans for pre-em?
> 
> Some of the snow in my lawn has already melt but the soil so soggy.


I echo this question. In one of Ryan Knorr's videos he mentions that some new lawns might consider not dropping PreM so that root growth can continue. Is that enough cause to not drop PreM?

I got 4-5 mows in on my new TTTF and feel good about the growth that occurred in the fall, but RK threw a curve ball at me.


----------



## bf7

I was planning pre emergent at some point in April. In my area crabgrass germ is typically early May. First time I've heard someone suggest not dropping it in the spring, unless you are seeding.

The bigger mystery in my mind is how I should approach nitrogen spring after a reno. Based on limited research, thinking of going urea route like I did in the fall, weekly 0.25 lbs N/k feedings, starting after a couple of mows.


----------



## SumBeach35

In the video, he mentioned you may get to a point where you may not need it. I doubt any complete fall reno is thick enough to crowd out crabgrass. Once its established, its something that could be tried but i wouldn't try it until you develop a dense canopy of turf. Pre-M is cheap insurance.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Echo the above. Pre-M will be a must. Timing is a different story.

@bf7 - guess a lot of us will learn about PGR together because with that much N we would be mowing every day!

Nice hearing from you guys. Getting excited about the growing season now.


----------



## SumBeach35

my plan is to use 0.2lbs/M Peters 20-20-20 biweekly depending on clipping rate and appearance. Subvert Pre-Fix at Pre-M app and monthly D10+ applications following that.


----------



## bf7

Haha spraying 2x per week and mowing every day doesn't sound like the worst thing right now. Feel like I'm waiting to be released from prison here.

Am I going too heavy on N? I remember talking about shooting for around 2.5 lbs/k total in the spring. Maybe I should spread it out more?

Are you guys getting a fresh soil test soon?


----------



## SumBeach35

I will getting soil tests again to check progress on pH and deficiencies.


----------



## SumBeach35

365ss KBG reno peek under ground cover 




Check plot in the neighbors yard for snow mold fungicide app effectiveness


Backyard


----------



## bf7

@SumBeach35 holding up nicely

Can anyone top this for ugliest dormant lawn? Stripes from November still going strong.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Oh I'm topping that @bf7 - just need more snow to melt. Lol


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> Oh I'm topping that @bf7 - just need more snow to melt. Lol


Aw man :lol: I'm anxiously awaiting pics from jersey!


----------



## JerseyGreens

@bf7 here is a teaser. I see all sorts of brown, yellow...only a little green...not worried but woof it looks bad!

Current:


The good ole days:


----------



## bf7

Excellent! It's going to hurt seeing the neighboring ryegrass lawns green up before ours - kbg likes to sleep in. But it won't be long until we're flying high again.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Here are my thoughts, please let me know if some of it are bad idea.

1. Get a fresh soil test

2. Pre em, 3 months rate. I'm not sure with the timing yet but my plan is to do a split app on spring and fall.

3. I'm thinking of adding half rate of tenacity to whiten the Poa and then pull by hand. I'm bad at identifying poa.

4. Spoon feed at 0.20 lbs/week. I'll probably start this in the first week of april. 
5. PGR (T-Nex). I had a great success with PGR before the reno. It cut's my mowing into half and thicken the lawn. I did that for practice last spring since I know I'm renovating the lawn later on. I did get some yellowing in the first few weeks. That's why I'm planning to apply half the KBG rate this time.

Another problem are broad leaf weeds. My neighbors had some broad leaf weeds last year, like dandelion, clover and oxalis. How can I prevent that from coming in to my lawn? The prodiamine doesn't prevent those weeds,right?


----------



## ColeLawn

bf7 said:


> @SumBeach35 holding up nicely
> 
> Can anyone top this for ugliest dormant lawn? Stripes from November still going strong.
> 
> https://i.postimg.cc/Xq3ggFGC/IMG-20210226-155141.jpg
> 
> https://i.postimg.cc/FzB7KX4H/IMG-20210226-155330.jpg
> 
> https://i.postimg.cc/fLFNtzJp/IMG-20210226-155500.jpg


Oh, easily. I will save you from the horror. You'll just have to take my word for it.


----------



## SumBeach35

ColeLawn said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @SumBeach35 holding up nicely
> 
> Can anyone top this for ugliest dormant lawn? Stripes from November still going strong.
> 
> https://i.postimg.cc/Xq3ggFGC/IMG-20210226-155141.jpg
> 
> https://i.postimg.cc/FzB7KX4H/IMG-20210226-155330.jpg
> 
> https://i.postimg.cc/fLFNtzJp/IMG-20210226-155500.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, easily. I will save you from the horror. You'll just have to take my word for it.
Click to expand...

pics or it didnt happen


----------



## JerseyGreens

SumBeach35 said:


> ColeLawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @SumBeach35 holding up nicely
> 
> Can anyone top this for ugliest dormant lawn? Stripes from November still going strong.
> 
> https://i.postimg.cc/Xq3ggFGC/IMG-20210226-155141.jpg
> 
> https://i.postimg.cc/FzB7KX4H/IMG-20210226-155330.jpg
> 
> https://i.postimg.cc/fLFNtzJp/IMG-20210226-155500.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, easily. I will save you from the horror. You'll just have to take my word for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pics or it didnt happen
Click to expand...

 :lol:

I'm glad this group will remain like a fraternity...should we start a new group?

Maybe... 2020 Cool Season Reno Crew - Year 2?


----------



## ColeLawn

SumBeach35 said:


> ColeLawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @SumBeach35 holding up nicely
> 
> Can anyone top this for ugliest dormant lawn? Stripes from November still going strong.
> 
> https://i.postimg.cc/Xq3ggFGC/IMG-20210226-155141.jpg
> 
> https://i.postimg.cc/FzB7KX4H/IMG-20210226-155330.jpg
> 
> https://i.postimg.cc/fLFNtzJp/IMG-20210226-155500.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, easily. I will save you from the horror. You'll just have to take my word for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pics or it didnt happen
Click to expand...

Let's just say that if my "in-season" lawn ends up looking half as good as his dormant lawn, I'll be happy with my progress this year...


----------



## JerseyGreens

KBG lawns are like a fine wine...with good care they get much better with age.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> SumBeach35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ColeLawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, easily. I will save you from the horror. You'll just have to take my word for it.
> 
> 
> 
> pics or it didnt happen
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :lol:
> 
> I'm glad this group will remain like a fraternity...should we start a new group?
> 
> Maybe... 2020 Cool Season Reno Crew - Year 2?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Our tagline should be "The Sophomore Slump"


----------



## jskierko

I feel your pain fellow 2020 reno'ers... last of the snow melted off today and the new lawn is looking a little sad.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Here's mine, the backyard is still covered with snow.

The edges looks like it died, you think it'll still recover?


----------



## jskierko

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> The edges looks like it died, you think it'll still recover?


Looks pretty matted, but I think I see some signs of green in there. I'd try to rake it up a little and give it a few more weeks before deciding.


----------



## bf7

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Here's mine, the backyard is still covered with snow.
> 
> The edges looks like it died, you think it'll still recover?


Is that salt damage? The rest of the yard looks very green


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

bf7 said:


> Is that salt damage? The rest of the yard looks very green


It could be a salt damage because that could be hit by salt when trucks are spreading. It could also be a water damage. That's a path where the water flows a lot. Durning rain and when snow starts to melt. My area is a bit of slope so all the water coming from the neighbors passes though that area. Could that be just some dormant grass?


----------



## Slingblade_847

Howdy Boys! Glad to see the action back on the forum. At the end of last year I was burned out almost as much as I was burned out from shoveling snow....

I'm shoveling again. Only this time I'm shoveling the snowbanks ON my driveway. Neighbors think I've lost it, but can't get to the grass fast enough.... the school boy excitement is back!

Overall, pretty darn happy with what I've seen. Definitely some snow mold. Definitely some grass/soil that is too moist to stick my rake in of fear of causing more damage then it would help.

I'll get some pics posted. Wishing all you boys best of luck this season.

@Di3soft hope your getting back at it too!


----------



## Di3soft

@Slingblade_847 yep will be getting back to it as soon as the temps climb, and just like you im also taking it easy after last years renovation. Just mowing, spraying and that will be all for this year. All the empty spots that I forgot existed are showing back up.


----------



## Slingblade_847

Here is my current status of lawn and shoveling my driveway snowbanks back onto the driveway to get it off the grass.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

@Slingblade_847, your lawn doesn't look like it took a lot of damage during the winter. It's still very green!


----------



## bf7

@Slingblade_847 you crack me up man. I piled my snow around the edge of the driveway instead of on the grass. If you have room in the driveway, I highly recommend that approach.

I think my grass in the areas close to the house is starting to green up from the added warmth. Either that or it has been green all winter and I didn't notice. Pretty cool.


----------



## Slingblade_847

@bf7 that what I'm here for! And the lawn is lookin' good! Don't forget your on point this year to talk down the future washout 2021 group.

Anyways, what are all of your thoughts on the prodiamine apps? Some guy is claiming that it has a negative impact on allowing KBG to spread lateral. Here is the link in the forum. Personally, I'm telling myself not to give much thought to this and throw it down....but am curious. @ken-n-nancy ??

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25864


----------



## bf7

Slingblade_847 said:


> @bf7 that what I'm here for! And the lawn is lookin' good! Don't forget your on point this year to talk down the future washout 2021 group.
> 
> Anyways, what are all of your thoughts on the prodiamine apps? Some guy is claiming that it has a negative impact on allowing KBG to spread lateral. Here is the link in the forum. Personally, I'm telling myself not to give much thought to this and throw it down....but am curious. @ken-n-nancy ??
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25864


 :lol: so many lives in my hands, I can't bear it! And thanks! Your babies have definitely retained good color over the winter.

I was absolutely going to throw down the pre-em but now you have me second guessing. Seems like there is always some debate around putting any given product on the lawn. Now I'm going to spend hours on here researching and probably end up where I started, as usual. Curious what the veterans have to say.


----------



## Slingblade_847

Just found a great thread on the topic, of course our friend @ken-n-nancy played a role....

My plan is multiple light doses.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5795


----------



## SumBeach35

ill be doing split Prodiamine apps of 0.5lbs/A with Subvert Pre-FIX with both apps. Still up in the air if ill include Isoxaben for the turf areas or if ill only apply to the landscaped areas.


----------



## bf7

Slingblade_847 said:


> Just found a great thread on the topic, of course our friend @ken-n-nancy played a role....
> 
> My plan is multiple light doses.
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5795


Great find. Thanks again ken-n-nancy. Wonder if anyone has had success preventing weeds with less than the 3 month rate (0.5 lbs/acre). I'd be willing to go monthly if it would help.


----------



## SumBeach35

if you dont want to apply pre-em, you can do blanket apps of herbicides to prevent the crabgrass through spring and summer.

To me, the pre-em isnt as limiting and i would rather save the blanket apps for spring renovations only. Adding a product with root promoting peptides like what Subvert offers can help combat root pruning.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Good grief my lawn looks terrible. Just took a look at it after more melted and ugh it's ugly.

One of my smarta** neighbors just asked if I killed my lawn again (making reference to the GLY apps this summer)! Will send pics tomorrow.

@bf7 - does your backyard face North? Mine looks similar to your backyard.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

My backyard, facing north looks better than my front yard. I have a lot of patches, looks like snow mold in the front. I'm still waiting for the snow to melt in the backyard then I'll post some pictures.


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> My backyard, facing north looks better than my front yard. I have a lot of patches, looks like snow mold in the front. I'm still waiting for the snow to melt in the backyard then I'll post some pictures.


Interesting!

I'll get out there early tomorrow and snap some pics. It's odd because some areas look super alive and green and others that look just dead!


----------



## bf7

My back yard is in the sun most of the day and currently looks the worst. North side ain't as bad.

Didn't get any roundup comments yet. My neighbors wouldn't have anything to back up their smack talk - their yards all look worse than mine. They have plenty of snow mold and yellow matted patches, which I was able to avoid entirely due to the low cut turf (I think). I don't hate it that much. At least it's a uniform brown / greenish color, with stripes!

One thing I'll add - I think the areas shielded from winds generally held up better over the winter. Probably helps explain the richer color within the house recesses on the north side. Back yard is wide open and completely exposed to wind chills.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

@bf7, I agree those that face the sun directly looks the most beat up.


----------



## JerseyGreens

+1 on the winds - the areas looking like crap are wide open to the winds.

Hence why @bf7 and I had some crazy washouts!


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> +1 on the winds - the areas looking like crap are wide open to the winds.
> 
> Hence why @bf7 and I had some crazy washouts!


Washout trauma truly sticks with you for life. When the renovation guide said to start drinking after seed down, I may have taken that advice a little too far. I can blame the washouts for that too.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

To the Jersey people, when are you planning to put down pre emergent? Yesterday was warm I think we reached 70. I was thinking of putting it down this coming Sunday. Do you think it's too early?


----------



## Alex1389

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> To the Jersey people, when are you planning to put down pre emergent? Yesterday was warm I think we reached 70. I was thinking of putting it down this coming Sunday. Do you think it's too early?


Temps turn colder in back half of March. I think it's too early. Also, you need to check soil temp, not air temp.

If you only have one Pre-M and go too early, you'll run into issues later in the season when you're trying to protect against Poa A.


----------



## bf7

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> To the Jersey people, when are you planning to put down pre emergent? Yesterday was warm I think we reached 70. I was thinking of putting it down this coming Sunday. Do you think it's too early?


I think generally you want soil temps in the 50-55 range and projected to remain there or increase in the future. It's supposed to get colder than it has been recently.

I am following this tracker. When my zip code is in the green optimum range, I'll likely pull the trigger on pre-em.

https://gddtracker.msu.edu/?model=7&offset=0&zip=16059

I also use this website to check current soil temps:

https://www.greencastonline.com/tools/soil-temperature


----------



## bf7

Anybody else seeing random small spots that appear to be greening up faster than the rest of the yard?


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> Anybody else seeing random small spots that appear to be greening up faster than the rest of the yard?


I have this phenomenon.

Also noticed that any areas with little or no overcrowding are greener than other areas.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody else seeing random small spots that appear to be greening up faster than the rest of the yard?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have this phenomenon.
> 
> Also noticed that any areas with little or no overcrowding are greener than other areas.
Click to expand...

Cool. Almost looks like a disease but in reverse. Beautiful little grass patches. Glad I'm not the only one lol

The overcrowding had largely petered out for me by the end of the fall where it wasn't noticeable. I don't really have an explanation for this. The only thing I could think of was maybe uneven application of my winterizer N.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

@bf7, that's interesting. I don't see those kind of random spots in my lawn. I do see some green areas but it's scattered and not concentrated like what you have.


----------



## bf7

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> @bf7, that's interesting. I don't see those kind of random spots in my lawn. I do see some green areas but it's scattered and not concentrated like what you have.


For me it's basically just these patches and areas up against my house that are green. This waiting game is killing me.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> @bf7, that's interesting. I don't see those kind of random spots in my lawn. I do see some green areas but it's scattered and not concentrated like what you have.
> 
> 
> 
> For me it's basically just these patches and areas up against my house that are green. This waiting game is killing me.
Click to expand...

My f-ugly areas are finally starting to wake up. Good times are coming!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

@bf7 I also have one patch that looks like yours. Probably it's over fertilized.


----------



## SumBeach35

Spring 2020 reno looking a bit after rough this winter.


Fall reno is still covered until weather breaks for the better. Still dony doubt we'll get at least ome more major snow storm.


----------



## bf7

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> @bf7 I also have one patch that looks like yours. Probably it's over fertilized.


Yeah, could be excess nitrogen from dog pee. I'm seeing them on my hell strip as well. There is a discussion going in a separate thread:

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26093


----------



## Slingblade_847

Ok boys....here is the grandstand shot that will be my reference from here out to see how my lawn progresses through out this season:



"Lookin' good Sling....but what's that your hiding behind your house?!"

Well, a**hole, it's my rigmarole claptrap of bare spots that didn't wanna cooperate last year and was hoping nobody would notice.







....I've got more if your into that kind of thing...

I'm thinking about posting a thread on the progression of this. I went on the hunt for a good thread of KBG spread progressions without much luck.

Obviously plugging and some weekly feeding is in my spring agenda.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Getting my logs ready for the soil test. 🤣


----------



## SumBeach35

Soil profile pic.

Collected samples on both properties


----------



## JerseyGreens

SumBeach35 said:


> Soil profile pic.
> 
> Collected samples on both properties


Looks great but you aren't sending all of that core to be tested, right?

The max depth I'd pull for soil testing is 4-6inches. Closer to 4inches though. Sure we can all get some deep roots but the majority of the root system is in that 4-6inch range which would be ideal for testing purposes.


----------



## SumBeach35

JerseyGreens said:


> SumBeach35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soil profile pic.
> 
> Collected samples on both properties
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great but you aren't sending all of that core to be tested, right?
> 
> The max depth I'd pull for soil testing is 4-6inches. Closer to 4inches though. Sure we can all get some deep roots but the majority of the root system is in that 4-6inch range which would be ideal for testing purposes.
Click to expand...

No, 4-6" core depth. being a heavy sand soil at this property, i have roots that deep though.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Turf rake day. Before and After. Game on!


----------



## ken-n-nancy

bf7 said:


> Slingblade_847 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just found a great thread on the topic, of course our friend @ken-n-nancy played a role....
> 
> My plan is multiple light doses.
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5795
> 
> 
> 
> Great find. Thanks again ken-n-nancy. Wonder if anyone has had success preventing weeds with less than the 3 month rate (0.5 lbs/acre). I'd be willing to go monthly if it would help.
Click to expand...

I'm glad that old posting was found in a search. I just re-read it, and still agree with what I wrote at the time.

I would be concerned about going to a smaller "initial" application than the 3-month rate, but an initial 3-month application, with monthly "boosters" (at a 1-month rate) might be appropriate. I've never seen that approach written about, though, and if would be an "off-label" schedule. However, it makes sense that it would be effective, at least after an initial dose to build up the amount of the active ingredient in the soil.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Slingblade_847 said:


> I'm shoveling again. Only this time I'm shoveling the snowbanks ON my driveway. Neighbors think I've lost it...


Yeah, I do that, too. I try to do it when there aren't any neighbors outside...

Did the shoveling onto the driveway about 10 days ago in a stretch of warm sunny days, and the snowbanks are now gone, at least until the next snowfall...


----------



## JerseyGreens

Good to hear from you@ken-n-nancy !! Our resident mentor/therapist for the 2020 cool season reno club.

We will do our best to help the 2021 reno gang out now under your guidance!


----------



## ken-n-nancy

JerseyGreens said:


> Good to hear from [email protected] !! Our resident mentor/therapist for the 2020 cool season reno club.
> 
> We will do our best to help the 2021 reno gang out now under your guidance!


I may be a little sparse in my attendance for a few more weeks, though. Despite some "spring tease" days, there's still a fair bit of wintry weather remaining in New Hampshire. Still below freezing almost every night, even if it gets up into the 50s or 60s during the day.

At least we have a month until the black flies return...


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

I don't know about you guys but I got a lot of Poa Annua. Some of them already have seedheads. I think I'm gonna have an ugly lawn on summer.


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> I don't know about you guys but I got a lot of Poa Annua. Some of them already have seedheads.


Multiple low rate tenacity apps and you should be good.


----------



## bf7

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> I don't know about you guys but I got a lot of Poa Annua. Some of them already have seedheads. I think I'm gonna have an ugly lawn on summer.


Are they coming up white? The tenacity in the fall should have at least weakened them.

I'm spending about 20 min everyday hand pulling.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

bf7 said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about you guys but I got a lot of Poa Annua. Some of them already have seedheads. I think I'm gonna have an ugly lawn on summer.
> 
> 
> 
> Are they coming up white? The tenacity in the fall should have at least weakened them.
> 
> I'm spending about 20 min everyday hand pulling.
Click to expand...

I can see that some of them came out white but some are healthy. I'm just worried that it might outcompete my KBG.


----------



## bf7

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about you guys but I got a lot of Poa Annua. Some of them already have seedheads. I think I'm gonna have an ugly lawn on summer.
> 
> 
> 
> Are they coming up white? The tenacity in the fall should have at least weakened them.
> 
> I'm spending about 20 min everyday hand pulling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can see that some of them came out white but some are healthy. I'm just worried that it might outcompete my KBG.
Click to expand...

I'm sure there is way more kbg than poa a. Stay on top of pulling and tenacity. If you're committed, you'll keep it under control.


----------



## Airbender

I have a bunch of hairy bittercress interspersed, and sprinkles of Poa Trivialis long the border with neighboring lawn.

For bittercress - Spot spraying of Q4 seems to be the only option. WIll try uprooting Poa Triv, and if not - will give try the "glove over glove" method from VTech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mHTm440Bbc


----------



## JerseyGreens

Look at what this man did the spring after his fall KBG reno that was overcome with Poa A.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=255885#p255885

All credit goes to @TheSwede


----------



## TheSwede

JerseyGreens said:


> Look at what this man did the spring after his fall KBG reno that was overcome with Poa A.
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=255885#p255885
> 
> All credit goes to @TheSwede


Hold your horses, buddy! As much as I would love to take credit for my lawn, which looked absolutely stunning, at the end of the season, BTW, the ones that should take credit for my lawn are all the members of this forum, not me! If it hadn't been for the collective knowledge of this forum, the encouragement I got, the cheering on, the tough questions and the great advice I got from this fantastic community, the transformation of my lawn that happened last season would not have happened. Period. You all, are the ones that made me look so good last season!


----------



## JerseyGreens

TheSwede said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look at what this man did the spring after his fall KBG reno that was overcome with Poa A.
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=255885#p255885
> 
> All credit goes to @TheSwede
> 
> 
> 
> Hold your horses, buddy! As much as I would love to take credit for my lawn, which looked absolutely stunning, at the end of the season, BTW, the ones that should take credit for my lawn are all the members of this forum, not me! If it hadn't been for the collective knowledge of this forum, the encouragement I got, the cheering on, the tough questions and the great advice I got from this fantastic community, the transformation of my lawn that happened last season would not have happened. Period. You all, are the ones that made me look so good last season!
Click to expand...

It's a collective and @g-man helped a ton in your transformation. He's helped us a lot on this group as well!!

You get credit for documenting the doses/application rates/t-nex and tenacity combo findings. Being able to follow a journal with those easy to follow directions deserves credit!


----------



## Slingblade_847

Who has thrown down the N? I'm throwing it down this weekend, with my temps reaching 70 degrees and soil temps should raise above 50 degrees. Actually somewhat early here in the Chicago burbs.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Slingblade_847 said:


> Who has thrown down the N? I'm throwing it down this weekend, with my temps reaching 70 degrees and soil temps should raise above 50 degrees. Actually somewhat early here in the Chicago burbs.


I threw some down this past Sunday. I've been checking soil temps with a thermometer and it's been above 50 multiple days. My front lawn is in full Sun which really cranks it up early. Already seeing a material impact from throwing it down.

I'll be mowing in no time.


----------



## Airbender

JerseyGreens said:


> You get credit for documenting the doses/application rates/t-nex and tenacity combo findings. Being able to follow a journal with those easy to follow directions deserves credit!


Agreed on the collective and the specific. 
It is helpful to find the well documented dosage and application methods - without having to calculate and convert, etc.

Thanks @JerseyGreens @TheSwede @g-man


----------



## SumBeach35

Edges of the 365ss reno are looking good. it definitely started growing and could use a cut.

We will be mid 20's and snowy tomorrow. Ground cover will stay on until we are consistently warming up.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

SumBeach35 said:


> Edges of the 365ss reno are looking good. it definitely started growing and could use a cut.
> 
> We will be mid 20's and snowy tomorrow. Ground cover will stay on until we are consistently warming up.


I should have done that on my edges.

This one is pretty bad, I don't think it will recover.


----------



## SumBeach35

@shadowlawnjutsu 
Yea, i dont think those are coming back. I have a large spot in backyard from the dog that looks like that.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

SumBeach35 said:


> @shadowlawnjutsu
> Yea, i dont think those are coming back. I have a large spot in backyard from the dog that looks like that.


I might try to pull some plugs and replace that area.


----------



## SumBeach35

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> SumBeach35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @shadowlawnjutsu
> Yea, i dont think those are coming back. I have a large spot in backyard from the dog that looks like that.
> 
> 
> 
> I might try to pull some plugs and replace that area.
Click to expand...

My plan is to garden weasel areas after the firat pre-m app to spot seed. Dead and thin spots.


----------



## TheSwede

Airbender said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> You get credit for documenting the doses/application rates/t-nex and tenacity combo findings. Being able to follow a journal with those easy to follow directions deserves credit!
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed on the collective and the specific.
> It is helpful to find the well documented dosage and application methods - without having to calculate and convert, etc.
> 
> Thanks @JerseyGreens @TheSwede @g-man
Click to expand...

It was @g-man who pointed me in the right direction regarding this with links to articles about this scheme. I was a bit unsure how my farily newly established lawn would react, but the infestation was quite severe so I decided to just do it ant hope for the best. During the treatment period, I look closely for signs of the KBG beeing stressed, and at one point (if I remember correctly) I decided to back off with the apps for a while because the KBG just looked a bit to stressed for my liking. The end result, however was extremely satisfying.

For this year I'll test another method to keep poa under control. I'll try a prohexadione calcium based PGR (sold under the name Anuew in the US i believe) instead of T-NEX. The idea (not mine, btw) is that since the suggested rate for poa is much lower than the suggested rate for KBG, Poa A will be "over-regulated" and die, or at least be severely hurt, while I can reap all the benefits of a PGR for my KBG.

I've also did a prodiamine app late fall 2020, and will do another one tomorrow since soil temps are rising rapidly now...



Good luck and may the force be with you in the war against Poa A .


----------



## g-man

@Carlson @zeus201 @zcabe How is the lawn in 2021?


----------



## jperm47

With soil temps rising to 50+ here in the Northeast, I am planning on getting my Prodiamine down. My underground irrigation system won't be turned on until Apr 12th at the earliest. Prodiamine has to be watered in I believe which leaves me to hand water 23,000 sq feet :shock:

Like most of you, my lawn is looking a bit rough post a Fall 2020 reno but I have faith come summer that it will be lush and green again....I hope


----------



## SumBeach35

I can't wait for Tuesday. Cover come off the 365ss KBG reno and it gets its first mow of the year.


----------



## JerseyGreens

For the reel mowers in this crew. When is the absolute best time to get nice, straight strips on your mow?

My home faces North so I end up in sun most of the day. Should I go early morning, or when the sun is just about to set?

Thanks!


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> For the reel mowers in this crew. When is the absolute best time to get nice, straight strips on your mow?
> 
> My home faces North so I end up in sun most of the day. Should I go early morning, or when the sun is just about to set?
> 
> Thanks!


I prefer sunset but that is just me. Too much dew on the blades in the morning and too much sun in the afternoon where I can't see the lines in one direction.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Cool then that's what I'll plan on doing. Don't think my neighbors will appreciate me mowing at 6am. 7pm it is!

Who is getting ready for their first mows?


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> Cool then that's what I'll plan on doing. Don't think my neighbors will appreciate me mowing at 6am. 7pm it is!
> 
> Who is getting ready for their first mows?


Hoping I can get my first spoon feed in today. I was going to wait til after first mow but it's taking forever to grow out. To hell with my original plan!

Mow should be later this week assuming the N provides some spark.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

I mowed last friday at 1.125 inch before the tenacity blanket spray. Some areas are already taller than others. I spoon fed yesterday 0.1 lbs N/1000 sqft.


----------



## billw

Mowing today!! I have some areas of the lawn that aren't quite woken up yet and others that are exploding! Trying to figure out height for my TTTF/KBG blend. I suppose I can go shorter to start and then gradually raise the blade as the rest of the grass catches up?


----------



## Slingblade_847

When you all putting the pro plugger to use? When it's fully out of this dormancy, or before? My thought was when actively growing on a consistent basis.

PS.... I don't want any responses that say "I'm not, don't have any bare spots..."


----------



## JerseyGreens

Slingblade_847 said:


> When you all putting the pro plugger to use? When it's fully out of this dormancy, or before? My thought was when actively growing on a consistent basis.
> 
> PS.... I don't want any responses that say "I'm not, don't have any bare spots..."


Haha I bet we all have bare spots.

This spring I'm just going to let it thicken up on it's own. Will think about plugs in the Fall.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Slingblade_847 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you all putting the pro plugger to use? When it's fully out of this dormancy, or before? My thought was when actively growing on a consistent basis.
> 
> PS.... I don't want any responses that say "I'm not, don't have any bare spots..."
> 
> 
> 
> Haha I bet we all have bare spots.
> 
> This spring I'm just going to let it thicken up on it's own. Will think about plugs in the Fall.
Click to expand...

I'm kinda thinking the same thing. I want to see how much it spreads out. But it's not yet final. It depends on my mood. I bought a pro plugger just in case.


----------



## kay7711226

Reno rebounding from the Winter bug.


----------



## bf7

kay7711226 said:


> Reno rebounding from the Winter bug.


That looks fantastic. Congrats on the wake up.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Are you guys in northeast thinking about irrigation soon?

Took a walk on my lawn and it's...getting real dry.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

@kay7711226 looks really good! You dominated your neighbor early on.


----------



## SumBeach35

Full update in my journal but the ground cover came off the 365ss reno. Fun pic here with the 365ss hat.


----------



## Carlson

g-man said:


> @Carlson @zeus201 @zcabe How is the lawn in 2021?


Front yard took a beating over the winter after some major fungus in the fall right before the snow came. Just did an overseed (and added some Rowdy to my blend) out front over the weekend.



Back is looking pretty good... a few thin spots from snow piles. Gonna do an overseed back here, too, but definitely don't need anywhere near as much as out front. Would have got that done over the weekend too, but the drive belt on my seeder broke shortly after I started the back.

Should be looking great everywhere by Memorial Day!


----------



## Carlson

JerseyGreens said:


> Are you guys in northeast thinking about irrigation soon?
> 
> Took a walk on my lawn and it's...getting real dry.


MA here - turned mine on last Friday (April 9th). Only ran it a bit to start watering my front overseed. Ground was definitely dry, but since its still cool it stays moist for a good while after a watering.


----------



## kay7711226

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> @kay7711226 looks really good! You dominated your neighbor early on.


Thanks man, I'm trying to get my neighbor(#4) to get into the lawn game


----------



## kay7711226

bf7 said:


> kay7711226 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reno rebounding from the Winter bug.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That looks fantastic. Congrats on the wake up.
Click to expand...

Appreciated! Lots of hard work and support from the family forum!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Are you guys in northeast thinking about irrigation soon?
> 
> Took a walk on my lawn and it's...getting real dry.


My irrigation will be turned on tomorrow. The main valve is leaking that should be fixed tomorrow as well. We got a lot of rain lately and will have more tomorrow and on Friday. That should give the lawn a boost.


----------



## SumBeach35

Another mow today for the 365ss reno. Still recovering from a bit of chlorosis from a poorly watered in foliar fert app. Gotta stop counting on rain, ended up not getting much rain and worked a long shift and couldnt water in the app until it was too late.

Second mow at 1.5".





Next mow HOC will drop to 1" for two mows then scalp to 0.5" then HOC will go to 19mm or 0.75".


----------



## JerseyGreens

Blue Dreams do come true...lawn is fully awake now - needs a 2nd cut.


----------



## SumBeach35

Spent 20 minutes with the groundskeeper 2 rake removing Poa A from the 365ss section. Filled a 2.5 gallon bucket halfway up in 20 minutes. Gave it a clean up bag mow to remove debris and straglers.


----------



## bf7

Anyone start PGR yet or know when they will start? I've heard after 2 mows in the spring but not sure if a recent reno should be treated differently.

Some parts of my yard are growing insanely fast and I can't keep up. Others haven't grown much at all yet.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

bf7 said:


> Anyone start PGR yet or know when they will start? I've heard after 2 mows in the spring but not sure if a recent reno should be treated differently.
> 
> Some parts of my yard are growing insanely fast and I can't keep up. Others haven't grown much at all yet.


I've been thinking about this too. Some part of my yard is growing so fast but there are also some parts that are slow, that's the shaded areas. I was supposed to apply last werkend but decided that I'll just wait for another week for a warmer temp.


----------



## bf7

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone start PGR yet or know when they will start? I've heard after 2 mows in the spring but not sure if a recent reno should be treated differently.
> 
> Some parts of my yard are growing insanely fast and I can't keep up. Others haven't grown much at all yet.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been thinking about this too. Some part of my yard is growing so fast but there are also some parts that are slow, that's the shaded areas. I was supposed to apply last werkend but decided that I'll just wait for another week for a warmer temp.
Click to expand...

Good to know. We have one more cool down near the middle of this week, so I'll probably start throwing it down this weekend.


----------



## zcabe

g-man said:


> @Carlson @zeus201 @zcabe How is the lawn in 2021?


Sorry I've been slack on documenting lately. The cooler weather in NC this past winter really set me back getting my PRG/KBG established before it completely shut down around mid December. However it eventually woke up and I started mowing again around mid March. It started growing aggressively again until we had handful more frosts that really set the color back but it kept filling in bare spots. I just applied 50lbs of Carbon X 24-0-4 over my 7,000sf on Saturday 4/17 so it should really start coming on strong now. I will try to do better job documenting now that I have more in the evenings to get back out in the yard and work.


----------



## Jay20nj

@SumBeach35 Did the groundskeeper rake just rip the poa out without having to pull? That could be a game changer


----------



## SumBeach35

Jay20nj said:


> @SumBeach35 Did the groundskeeper rake just rip the poa out without having to pull? That could be a game changer


I didn't get that aggressive with it to try but it did pull up the hidden stalks and seedheads and make tracing it back to the plant to hand pull quite easy.


----------



## zeus201

g-man said:


> How is the lawn in 2021?


Pangea rye mono-stand took a beating from extended snow cover and resulting gray snow mold. I'd estimate the snow mold affected 40% of the rye and killed off resulting plants. Ended up raking up the dead areas and reseeded. Finally started to notice germination last week.

Also, color has been a bit muted as of recent and hoping it will rebound once sun and warmer weather returns. I've started to weekly foliar AMS apps and will continue till mid-May or so.

I will say, the rye strips amazing and way better than the mono-KBG. One of these days I'll take a comparison picture between rye and KBG.


----------



## SumBeach35

*365SS*

10 days since sand, 7 days since XGRN

Looking much better, this was likely the only sun that poked out all day. 0.3 lbs/N/M XGRN today


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

SumBeach35 said:


> *365SS*
> 
> 10 days since sand, 7 days since XGRN
> 
> Looking much better, this was likely the only sun that poked out all day.


Looking good! Your neighbor has some nice grass but it's being dominated.


----------



## SumBeach35

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> SumBeach35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *365SS*
> 
> 10 days since sand, 7 days since XGRN
> 
> Looking much better, this was likely the only sun that poked out all day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking good! Your neighbor has some nice grass but it's being dominated.
Click to expand...

Haha, that's my charity lawn. Heavy overseed last fall as well


----------



## bf7

KBG spreading ability of plugs in 2.5 weeks. Pretty cool.

4/20



5/8


----------



## SumBeach35

*365SS*

Loved the XGRN app. Getting ready for another round of sand and growth potential will be ramping up. These pictures taken after a triple cut with light raking and hand pulling some poa A.







Circled area will get plugs using the pro plugger before the next round of sand.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

@bf7, great progress on your plugs! I added more plugs on my bare spots as well.

@SumBeach35, those area doesn't look like it needs more plugs. Or is it just the angle that makes it look so small?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Who wants to share their PGR recipes with the group?

I have T-Nex, FEature, Citric acid and Urea on hand. I'm sure I have more than that but these come to mind.

Thanks!


----------



## SumBeach35

I use Anuew at max rate but havent regulated the 365ss reno. Want it growing full steam ahead.

With Anuew @ 0.37 oz/M, i mix FEature into the tank mix at 2 oz /M, and occasionally will add in AMS/UMAXX @ 0.1 lb/N/M.

I would suggest separating Tnex and iron. Iron will make the TNEX less available to the plant when tank mixed.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

SumBeach35 said:


> I use Anuew at max rate but havent regulated the 365ss reno. Want it growing full steam ahead.
> 
> With Anuew @ 0.37 oz/M, i mix FEature into the tank mix at 2 oz /M, and occasionally will add in AMS/UMAXX @ 0.1 lb/N/M.
> 
> I would suggest separating Tnex and iron. Iron will make the TNEX less available to the plant when tank mixed.


Thanks for the tip. Maybe that's why my first app is not as effective. Aside from the fact that it was very low rate I mixed in FAS. I might delay the FAS few days after TNex.


----------



## SumBeach35

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> SumBeach35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I use Anuew at max rate but havent regulated the 365ss reno. Want it growing full steam ahead.
> 
> With Anuew @ 0.37 oz/M, i mix FEature into the tank mix at 2 oz /M, and occasionally will add in AMS/UMAXX @ 0.1 lb/N/M.
> 
> I would suggest separating Tnex and iron. Iron will make the TNEX less available to the plant when tank mixed.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the tip. Maybe that's why my first app is not as effective. Aside from the fact that it was very low rate I mixed in FAS. I might delay the FAS few days after TNex.
Click to expand...

You can spray Iron and then spray Tnex, waiting a few days is likely not necessary and spraying same day will help with the chlorosis from the tnex. I believe Tnex should also be mowed off after 2 hours but i may be wrong on that.


----------



## g-man

SumBeach35 said:


> I would suggest separating Tnex and iron. Iron will make the TNEX less available to the plant when tank mixed.


What?


----------



## Airbender

JerseyGreens said:


> Who wants to share their PGR recipes with the group?


Here is what I use:

*Recipe - 1 *

*Tenacity*
Rate: 1 Fluid Oz per Acre

*Urea-Soluble (46-0-0)*
Rate: 0.5 Lbs per 1000 Square Feet

*Anuew*
Rate: 0.18 Oz per 1000 Square Feet

*T-NEX 1 AQ*
Rate: 0.125 Fluid Oz per 1000 Square Feet​
Basically use Anuew and TNex at the lowest rates. Trying Anuew for the first time, this season. Once I get the hang of it, or eventually I plan to add to this mix:

*BAP (Benzylaminopurine 99%)*
Rate: 1 gm per 1000 Square Feet​


----------



## SumBeach35

g-man said:


> SumBeach35 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would suggest separating Tnex and iron. Iron will make the TNEX less available to the plant when tank mixed.
> 
> 
> 
> What?
Click to expand...

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=19268

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/course-care/green-section-record/58/8/five-ways-to-get-the-most-out-of-trinexapac-ethyl.html


----------



## g-man

The article shows poor research. He extrapolated hard water calcium iron herbicide effects (see his source) to having an effect on Tnex. While yes, calcium and bicarbonates can have some reduction via binding, if you mix correctly the products you can limit the potential.

So I would not say to spray Tnex separate from iron. Add AMS (read article from Patton below) to the water first. This will create calcium sulfate. You can also add citric acid too. Add the ferrous sulfate (or chelated iron). Then add the Tnex last. I've done Tnex + iron and just Tnex with my hardwater (24grains) without any difference in performance.

This is from @Pete1313 but I cant find the original research. 









http://www.seminar.asianturfgrass.com/stmia17/patton_ph_water_hardness_handout.pdf


----------



## JerseyGreens

Not only did @g-man give us great detailed information and a recipe he gave us the ideal order for mixing the ingredients.

Thanks chef!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

I notice this on my lawn today since it's the one that has the most noticeable browning from heat stress. It looks like a fine fescue on my KBG lawn. Is there any chance that these are just new KBG leaf blades? It's so thin.

To other KBG renoers, did you notice anything similar in your lawn?

You'll notice that the KBG around it has thicker blades. 


Pulled it down to the roots


Could it be just a heat stressed KBG?


----------



## gregonfire

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Could it be just a heat stressed KBG?


Looks like it. My lawn does this in certain "hot spots". The blades shrivel down and looks a dull color. A good watering and it looks back to normal the next day.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

gregonfire said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could it be just a heat stressed KBG?
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like it. My lawn does this in certain "hot spots". The blades shrivel down and looks a dull color. A good watering and it looks back to normal the next day.
Click to expand...

I soaked it with water. Let's see tomorrow.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Interesting stuff. I had this happening in mine and gman jokingly said I didn't have a Monostand. :lol:

Need to get some tuna cans out there and check some nozzles!


----------



## Chris LI

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> gregonfire said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could it be just a heat stressed KBG?
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like it. My lawn does this in certain "hot spots". The blades shrivel down and looks a dull color. A good watering and it looks back to normal the next day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I soaked it with water. Let's see tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I would keep watering it for a few days to give the leaf blades a chance to heal from the mow. One telltale indicator of kbg is the boat tip shape of the leaf. That should help to confirm if it's kbg or not.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

Chris LI said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gregonfire said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like it. My lawn does this in certain "hot spots". The blades shrivel down and looks a dull color. A good watering and it looks back to normal the next day.
> 
> 
> 
> I soaked it with water. Let's see tomorrow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would keep watering it for a few days to give the leaf blades a chance to heal from the mow. One telltale indicator of kbg is the boat tip shape of the leaf. That should help to confirm if it's kbg or not.
Click to expand...

Yes it does have a bot shaped tip but very thin. Thanks!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Anyone spraying Urea tonight?

Temps would be 79 degrees by 7pm here...too risky?

I'd be watering it in tomorrow AM / only applying 0.15 lbs N per K.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Anyone spraying Urea tonight?
> 
> Temps would be 79 degrees by 7pm here...too risky?
> 
> I'd be watering it in tomorrow AM / only applying 0.15 lbs N per K.


I'll spray Feature tonight and then spray 0.25lbs of AMS tomorrow morning before watering an inch.


----------



## JerseyGreens

How are you guys holding up with these drought like conditions and heat!?


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> How are you guys holding up with these drought like conditions and heat!?


It's brutal. I could see a ton of thinning and darkening 
(a blackish color) throughout the lawn, especially in the front yard around concrete and asphalt. I woke up early to water and have the rain gauge out there. Unfortunately I lent most of my above ground irrigation system to my brother in law who is growing from seed right now, so I'm stuck moving one sprinkler and hose around.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Definitely brutal man. Can't believe what it must feel like to be in your shoes moving the sprinklers around.

I've noticed that as KBG gets stressed it gets "skinny" and if it starts looking like a fine fescue. Very weird but then again its my first time growing KBG!


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

I'm watering 1 inch twice a week. Getting some dry/black/dead spots. One thing I notice even if it's in the 90s the KBG still feels cool on barefoot. I always try monitor the soil temp during the hottest time of the day. I'm getting around 55 on the shade and around 68 on the full sun area.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Feel bad posting this but damn...lawns are dying quickly in my neighborhood.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> Feel bad posting this but damn...lawns are dying quickly in my neighborhood.


I have those kind of photos in my phone too. We're really doing a very hard work compared to them and it shows in those domination lines.


----------



## synergy0852

@JerseyGreens I gotta know. Are the cameras for security or staring at your lawn while away from home? :thumbup: Looking real nice btw!


----------



## JerseyGreens

synergy0852 said:


> @JerseyGreens I gotta know. Are the cameras for security or staring at your lawn while away from home? :thumbup: Looking real nice btw!


Man - I knew we were missing one of the active blokes from last years Reno Club! Just saw your new journal and hit subscribed!

The cameras are there mostly to keep an eye on my side yard...but well now I stare at that domination line too. Can't help it...the battery used to last 8 months...barely goes a few months now!


----------



## synergy0852

JerseyGreens said:


> Can't help it...the battery used to last 8 months...barely goes a few months now!


Same. Had to hardwire mine to outlets, got sick having to charge all the time! :lol:


----------



## Chris LI

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feel bad posting this but damn...lawns are dying quickly in my neighborhood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have those kind of photos in my phone too. We're really doing a very hard work compared to them and it shows in those domination lines.
Click to expand...

Exactly! 
@JerseyGreens You shouldn't feel badly about showing off your hard work. We take what most people see as a chore and turn it into a hobby/passion. Folks stop by and ask me what I do with the lawn and yard, and I give them some pointers (and mention TLF). If they improve their yards, the whole community benefits. I do have to admit though, I always love a good domination line!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Chris LI said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feel bad posting this but damn...lawns are dying quickly in my neighborhood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have those kind of photos in my phone too. We're really doing a very hard work compared to them and it shows in those domination lines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly!
> @JerseyGreens You shouldn't feel badly about showing off your hard work. We take what most people see as a chore and turn it into a hobby/passion. Folks stop by and ask me what I do with the lawn and yard, and I give them some pointers (and mention TLF). If they improve their yards, the whole community benefits. I do have to admit though, I always love a good domination line!
Click to expand...

That's right pal! Waking up at 6am to put down foliar apps every week (sometimes twice) and mowing is a lot of work.

I'm on a semi main road and people are pulling over while I'm mowing to ask me about the lawn and what a reel mower is!


----------



## JerseyGreens

When are you guys going to stop spoon-feeding?


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> When are you guys going to stop spoon-feeding?


1 or 2 more apps. Although I'm hesitant to put down anything this weekend.


----------



## JerseyGreens

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> When are you guys going to stop spoon-feeding?
> 
> 
> 
> 1 or 2 more apps. Although I'm hesitant to put down anything this weekend.
Click to expand...

I just mowed the lawn. Took WAY more than 1/3 off in some areas....right before a heat wave. :shock:


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> When are you guys going to stop spoon-feeding?


I just went heavy this week with 0.3 lbs and 0.24 lbs of N. I'm skipping my feeding this weekend but will continue feeding with XGRN 8-1-8 throughout summer. Probably lower rate but will still do it weekly.


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> When are you guys going to stop spoon-feeding?
> 
> 
> 
> 1 or 2 more apps. Although I'm hesitant to put down anything this weekend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just mowed the lawn. Took WAY more than 1/3 off in some areas....right before a heat wave. :shock:
Click to expand...

I mowed last night. Lost a few shades of green but you can't beat that clean shave lol. Used the max hoc. I can tell the lawn is stressing today.

@shadowlawnjutsu A half pound in one week?? Living on the edge! Also, very precise measurements with the 0.24.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

bf7 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 or 2 more apps. Although I'm hesitant to put down anything this weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> I just mowed the lawn. Took WAY more than 1/3 off in some areas....right before a heat wave. :shock:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I mowed last night. Lost a few shades of green but you can't beat that clean shave lol. Used the max hoc. I can tell the lawn is stressing today.
> 
> @shadowlawnjutsu A half pound in one week?? Living on the edge! Also, very precise measurements with the 0.24.
Click to expand...

I just took advantage of the rain that's why I did another application for the week. The 2nd app of 0.24 lbs of N is from XGRN 8-1-8 it should be slow release. 3lbs of XGRN has 0.24 lbs of N&K.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Breaking all the rules and irrigating before nighttime. Hope that azoxy is still present in the soil!


----------



## bf7

How often do you guys irrigate when you are up around 90? I just watered a half inch yesterday but thinking about doing it again tomorrow morning.


----------



## JerseyGreens

I'm throwing all rules out the window right now when it comes to watering. ET calcs say I would have been fine tonight but I'm still throwing down 0.5inch. This is serious heat with no clouds in sight...


----------



## bf7

JerseyGreens said:


> I'm throwing all rules out the window right now when it comes to watering. ET calcs say I would have been fine tonight but I'm still throwing down 0.5inch. This is serious heat with no clouds in sight...


Good call. Drought is a bigger threat than disease now. Guess I'll be lugging around a 100 ft anaconda and sprinklers tomorrow :lol:


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

bf7 said:


> How often do you guys irrigate when you are up around 90? I just watered a half inch yesterday but thinking about doing it again tomorrow morning.


Water 1 inch twice a week if most of the days are in the upper 80s to 90s. But I try to stick to once a week if possible. If I'm going to water twice in a week, I choose the hottest day for my 2nd water.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> I'm throwing all rules out the window right now when it comes to watering. ET calcs say I would have been fine tonight but I'm still throwing down 0.5inch. This is serious heat with no clouds in sight...


What is ET calcs?


----------



## JerseyGreens

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm throwing all rules out the window right now when it comes to watering. ET calcs say I would have been fine tonight but I'm still throwing down 0.5inch. This is serious heat with no clouds in sight...
> 
> 
> 
> What is ET calcs?
Click to expand...

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19653

Basically an algorithm that tells you when you need to water. Think of it as a balance that depletes itself each day from evapotranspiration.

It hurt my head when I read that thread but once I figured it out the rest is history.


----------



## shadowlawnjutsu

JerseyGreens said:


> shadowlawnjutsu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm throwing all rules out the window right now when it comes to watering. ET calcs say I would have been fine tonight but I'm still throwing down 0.5inch. This is serious heat with no clouds in sight...
> 
> 
> 
> What is ET calcs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19653
> 
> Basically an algorithm that tells you when you need to water. Think of it as a balance that depletes itself each day from evapotranspiration.
> 
> It hurt my head when I read that thread but once I figured it out the rest is history.
Click to expand...

That's why I love this forum. I get a lot of good details like this. Thanks!


----------



## JerseyGreens

Sweet kiss of morning dew and there is a lot of it. I wonder for how long the dew can keep the grass cool in 94F...


----------



## Vtx531

Is it dew or guttation?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Vtx531 said:


> Is it dew or guttation?


Had no idea what that concept was until now. It could very well be that actually.


----------



## SumBeach35

365ss reno is 95% recovered from the second round of sand.







A couple areas are struggling. Not sure if it is from too much sand or maybe a bit heavy handed on the last app.







They have green shoots in them but definitely behind on recovery.


----------

