# Water Pooling with Heavy Rain



## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

Hello Everyone I have an area of side lawn that is between a neighbor and I that tends to pool water whenever it gets heavy rain. The water pool isn't that much but is just enough to drown out grass, grass seed etc. This combined with the fact that there are 2 mature trees shading the area and taking in nutrients im having a hard time establishing turf there. Its like the grass grows fine then all of sudden it back to patches of dirt. What are my options based on what you all can see? Could I add dirt and sand to raise it and slope it towards the street? It's only happening in this one area which is right next to the curbside.


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## Oneacer (Sep 27, 2020)

The way I see it, you have a couple options.

First, it looks like that area is half yours and half your neighbors, thus needing cooperation for any remedy.

You could bring in material, regrade it and reseed.

You could get together with neighbor, and extend a nice planting bed with some floral and ground cover.

You could leave it as is, dig in the center, install a small yard drain and pipe it (trench) to the curb, as they also make small angled grates for the exit point at the street line (curb).


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## Old Hickory (Aug 19, 2019)

Agree w Oneacer, mostly the last option of digging a french drain and moving the rainwater elsewhere or even off the lawn. Then you would have multiple options on what to do next. Great project for the winter.

I see there are utilities, so call before you dig.


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

Thank you for your response @Oneacer I think I want to first try and bring in material, regrade, and reseed it next fall. This maximizes lawn mowing area :thumbup: if that fails I'll do the drain idea which I'll start researching.

As for material to level and regrade with, should I just use sand then add a layer of topsoil over that or all sand?


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## BobLovesGrass (Jun 13, 2020)

As a cheap/easy attempt might try gypsum. The calcium can make some clay soils less sticky and allow water to better penetrate.
This ended ponding I had with a detached garage on the low corner of my lot.


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## Oneacer (Sep 27, 2020)

Those utility uprights (usually that type is phone or cable) are usually placed on the property line. If you are going to bring in material to regrade, it will require going up the hill slope as well, as well as going onto your neighbors property. I would use a good topsoil, as sand would quickly wash out.

Fall is the best time to plant grass, (too late this year) with spring being a second choice.

If you want grass, and don't want new seed to wash out, I would raise the grade using a good top soil and fine compost mix, level it, leaving appx 1/2 or so below your existing soil at the turf edge, and lay down some nice sod. This way it will be flush with existing yard, and not wash out on you.


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## Oneacer (Sep 27, 2020)

Just make sure your final lawn grade has a good slope to the street, which is no problem, as you appear to have more than enough pitch in that slope.


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

@Oneacer I understood everything until you got to the part of, "leaving appx 1/2 or so below your existing soil at the turf edge" is there another way you can explain it to the less knowledgeable? Are you saying i should level it at a slope downward towards the curb and leave a gap between the lawn and curb (on the low side) and put sod in between the newly sloped yard and the street/curb?


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## jeffjunstrom (Aug 12, 2019)

We ran into the same problem over Fall 19/spring 20 at our new build. We had the builder come back out and "regrade" three times. I use the quotes because all they really did was throw some dirt down, eyeball the slope, and say it should be good. Eventually, I decided to go the drain route. We had one installed in the middle of one of the pools, and run the pipe to a nearby downspout. It's certainly not an immediately solution, but in the ~six months since it was installed, and coupled with an aggressive lawn approach (PGR and the fall N blitz, mostly), the spots have started to fill in really nicely. I expect to have a "normal" area by next year.


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## Oneacer (Sep 27, 2020)

@Lawn Noobie,

Basically what I was trying to tell you was your soil preparation for laying sod should when its all graded to grade, should be a bit lower where it butts up against your existing lawn, to allow for the established root system of the sod ... i.e. , both the newly laid sod and the existing lawn are the same height.


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

Your getting such good advice now I hesitate to chime in but I will only to share the solution I tried, found 100% effective several years ago and am going to get some more of!

Our house is built into a hill and on the backside the engineers and builders erected a pretty significant retaining wall, in a nice curve, about 7 - 10 yards out off one corner of the foundation.

Well, when we get significant rain (in reality, there is NO rain this close to mountains that ain't significant :roll: ) the water really, REALLY pools up terribly.

Well, when I was researching permanently installing some Japanese Maples in some pretty massive (100 gallon and up) planters I found out about the products used on sports playing fields, some of which contain granules that ABSORB AND RETAIN TEN (10!) TIMES THEIR WEIGHT (or VOLUME) IN WATER AND DO NOT BREAK DOWN... Heck, they DON'T EVEN GET "MUSHY" !!!!! :nod:

If I have anything in my arsenal close to "magic" (besides TLF.com, PGR and Armada fungicide) it is the Turface product-line! :thumbup:

https://turface.com/siteoneproducts

I've always opted for the Turface ALL SPORT the particles of which are a tad larger and not quite as uniform as the All Sport PRO but, when I called my SiteOne today the expert there told me about their 3rd option, "GAME SAVER" so, for <$13 / bag I'm gonna try it this time around in an area a relative is having terrible pooling problems - not only threatening some blue grass I've fought tooth and nail to get established but also their foundation.

JUST TO BE CLEAR: I only (you would only need to) put down enough of this product that it would barely be noticeable and really even standing on top of the ground where it has been put, you wouldn't know to look at or for it unless you knew it was there. I guess my point is I don't want anyone thinking that in order to use these products you have to make an area look like a sports infield or anything. Just for the heck of it I put a real excess of it down in one area one time just to see what would happen and within a season it blended in with the soil but, dang I'd that stuff doesn't still absorb many, many times it's volume in standing stormwater!!!

(The relatives im helping said they don't care if their trouble area looks like a baseball infield or not; they just want the standing water GONE! :lol:

Like my retaining wall, all the other alternatives (grading, drains, etc., etc.) are not viable options at that relative's cabin ...


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

@440mag do you have any pictures of how this looks? I'm not sure what to think of it from the description and link. If it is what I think it is the. I'd take the advice of regarding that area and sloping it to the street but then depending on what this stuff is I'd put a light top dressing of it on top where the grass could still grow through and not be noticed and also absorb water so the grade stays in place..


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## tam (Jun 27, 2020)

Lawn Noobie said:


> @440mag do you have any pictures of how this looks?


It looks like tiny flat pebbles to me. It's a popular mix-in for houseplant media.

I tried it a couple of years ago and didn't experience a noticeable difference in puddling, but I also likely didn't use enough product. The Turface website talks about incorporating multiple tons of product per thousand sq ft for athletic fields, and I need to eat sometimes. The Turface website suggests for raising low spots to incorporate Turface at 20% into fill material that matches the composition of the surrounding dirt.


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

@tam that's interesting and not exactly what I pictured. I did youtube the product and saw a version called "water saver" or "game saver" that looked more like a powdered sand. With this I am now thinking to take @Oneacer suggestion of using a good top soil and fine compost mix, add the 20% of that product to the mix for water absorption. Finally level and regrade to slope towards the street and next fall try growing a dense shade of grass seed through it.

If this sounds like a bad idea to anyone please let me know but if that product is as inexpensive as stated this might be a good fix that could last. Especially since it isn't near the house or a downspout where a French drain is needed, but instead just need for those last few feet to keep draining out downward to the street/curb. I will update this so others can maybe be helped in the future as well


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## tam (Jun 27, 2020)

@Lawn Noobie I have the impression that the Game Saver product is intended for spot-treating acute issues (puddles on the infield when it rains right before a scheduled game). It looks similar to the stuff I use to absorb vomit when the kids don't quite make it to the bathroom.

At any rate, at the time I tried it, my Site One only stocked All Sport, so I didn't get to play around with any of the other products. Let us know how it goes.


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

@tam thanks for posting that photo and you're probably right about that GameSaver - I much prefer the coarser ALL SPORT and that potted shrub planter mix is exactly how I found out about it - through a bonsai forum I used to frequent! But hey, gosh, it only took me 3 or 4 bags to treat and see a real positive effect in an area 3 times the size of that in the OP's photo.

@Lawn Noob , your plan sounds like a viable one and since you're thinking of grading that area anyway, were it I, I might get 2 bags of the All Sport and spread it evenly across just the area you're seeing the pooling - if you see the All Sport absorb as much as I have you'll know it's worth your time before mixing it in with other soils. On the other hand, you may be surprised, at most add another bag or two and save yourself a whole lot of work and mixing.

I sure wish I had ready access to the Before and After photos I took years ago of the area I had pooling , Before and After I tried the All Sport to good effect (face palm!)


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

Thought of this thread when I just came across this passage in the article linked below:

*Soil Conditions*- _The type of soil you have will either encourage or discourage deep root development. Heavy clay soils, while it offers good water retention, also compacts easily and can become waterlogged. Incorporation of organic matter, such as compost, will loosen the soil and provide better air exchange.
*A product called Turface was developed by the sports industry for use clay baseball infields. It is applied to infields because of its ability to quickly absorb large quantities of rain water without becoming slippery. Its water and air retention capabilities has made it a great product for use on lawns and in container gardens, as well as artificial soil in bonsai plants and aquariums. About the size of large fertilizer granules, it absorbs 10 times its weight in water and evenly releases the water over time. It can be expensive for large lawns, but it doesn't break down after it is applied. Once applied and worked into the soil, it is permanent. This is a great option if you use your lawn for activities such as weddings, social gatherings or other activities. I know of a number of outdoor wedding that were saved with Turface.*
_
https://www.lawn-care-academy.com/grass-root-growth.html

FWIW, @ bag of TurfAce AllSport cost me $11 and some change at SiteOne and I put 10 bags across an area that's been giving me fits and relatives paid for another 10 bags that I distributed very heavily in an depression low area where they had severe pooling.

The stuff is doing exactly as describe above and just what we "hired" it to do. (I put it down heavy on one slope but that's okay because I'm familiar with how the stuff will get worked INTO the soil (doesn't wash or blow away).

Homeowners can ignore the amounts referenced on the bag for collegiate and pro-level playing fields. Again, $11 + tax / bag ...


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

A bag I held back in case I see any areas that could use some more now that grass is going dormant ....


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

Thanks @440mag the article snippet sounds promising, but with no site one nearby it would be harder for me to test.

At any rate it sounds like this mixed with black kow and then spread to raise my low area is worth a try if I can find it at that $11/bag. I did put down a mix of sand, black kow, and soil (I had from a small hole i dug up) over the low area and have been waiting for a good heavy rain to reassess.

Edit: I found a site one and based on YouTube I probably need the turface field and fairway mix so I'll check if they have that one


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

Okay looks like I have a plan now which is to get Turface field and fairway (not sure if I'll get the emerald green color or the natural which is a sand/tan color) and mix it with Black Kow manure and Leaders Compost. This will create a mixture the 3 products which I will then use to fill the low spots and do my best to grade everything into a swell between me and my neighbor's house and down toward the street for run off.. guess I have some work in the yard to do this winter after all.

Then come early spring I'll seed and overseed that entire part of the lawn with no pre emergent while the rest of the lawn will get pre emergent and herbicides as I tackle weed suppression in 2021. Thanks for the feedback, the field and fairway product looks promising and I'll report back with updates


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

How long does the water stand there for after a rain?


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

ABC123 said:


> How long does the water stand there for after a rain?


@ABC123 not long. Once its done with heavy rains its mostly gone. It rained heavily a few days ago for 2 days and it was gone at the end of the day on the last day. Its more of. Pooling vs standing water i guess


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

well thats not too bad, you could try scotts everydrop to see if it helps.


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

ABC123 said:


> well thats not too bad, you could try scotts everydrop to see if it helps.


Thanks @ABC123 I just looked it up and it looks like its worth a try but only after I've got a better grading and slope, as well as after establishing some turf there. I'll try it after grading with the mixture of black kow manure, leafgro compost and turface field and fairway. Once that's done and seeded in the spring I'll apply this to assist in drainage.


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

Best o' success to you - on all fronts , 2021!!!!


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