# Beginner advice needed



## SimpleGreen29 (Aug 16, 2017)

Hello Everyone,

I am a beginner when it comes to lawn care. I know I have Bermuda but not sure what type. Not sure if that's the only type of grass I have either. I have what I believe is a huge crab grass problem also. I am in over my head when it comes to fertilizer, pre/post-emergent etc.
I have tried Bayer all-in-one weed and crabgrass killer in 2 small areas only for it to die and come back. Also I bought a basic soil test kit from Lowes and have very low N, low P and K. Have put down Milorganite in the back yard which is 10200sq ft. Also bought it for the front also just shy of 10,000sq ft. and haven't put it down yet. I have not tested soil pH yet.

I need some advice as to what to use on crab grass (if that's what it is)and am I at least pointed in the right direction?

Thanks

P.S. I tried to add photos.. wont load past 65%. any advice?


----------



## Fronta1 (Jul 11, 2017)

Quinclorac is a good post emergent for crab grass. Ortho weed b gone has a good amount in it. The main problem with crab grass is it's really waxy so you need something called a spreader sticker to get it to stick.


----------



## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Fronta1 said:


> Quinclorac is a good post emergent for crab grass. Ortho weed b gone has a good amount in it. The main problem with crab grass is it's really waxy so you need something called a spreader sticker to get it to stick.


Quinclorac will knock crabgrass out and the label on mine doesn't have any temperature restrictions. The spreader sticker fronta1 is referring too is a surfactant. They come is a few different options but quinclorac calls for MSO (methylated seed oil)

I'm not aware of the AI (active ingredients) in the Ortho product but if it contains 2, 4D then it shouldn't be sprayed if temperatures are going to be close or above 90 degrees. As with any herbicide fully read and understand the product label before spraying.

A lot of users here use Celcius for a majority of their weeds. It kills a good number of grassy and broadleaf weeds but not nutsedge.


----------



## SimpleGreen29 (Aug 16, 2017)

Is Quinclorac or Celcius safe for use on Bermuda grass?

Will a pre-emergent help me at this point?


----------



## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Yes both are safe to use on Bermuda. Pre emergents will be no good at killing already growing weeds. They prevent them from growing while they are just beginning to germinate. So it is important to put pre emergents down in the fall and spring to kill the weeds before you can even see them.


----------



## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

A picture would help tremendously.
Try to upload a picture from your smart phone if your computer doesnt work. I have used both.

I would honestly do a more comprehensive soil test
I have use Soil savy soil test. Post the results on this forum. (takes a few weeks to get results back so get on it) and we can further help with more detailed responses.
You have a big lawn
What are you using to mow? How often do you mow? 
pre emergents are fine
But I wouldnt put any post emergent herbicides on your lawn until you find out what kind of grass you have.


----------



## SimpleGreen29 (Aug 16, 2017)

What size picture do most use? Do you recommend resize image to 640 x 480 for message boards or smaller?


----------



## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

I don't resize and have never had a problem uploading. Try again postimage might have been having problems.


----------



## SimpleGreen29 (Aug 16, 2017)

Tellycoleman said:


> A picture would help tremendously.
> Try to upload a picture from your smart phone if your computer doesnt work. I have used both.
> 
> I would honestly do a more comprehensive soil test
> ...


 I currently mow 1x week. I have a cub cadet riding rotary mower. 
Will probably do a more advanced soil test thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## Stro3579 (Jun 30, 2017)

Anyone use dish detergent Instead of surfactant?


----------



## Fronta1 (Jul 11, 2017)

Stro3579 said:


> Anyone use dish detergent Instead of surfactant?


I tried using dog shampoo last week and was not impressed.


----------



## Stro3579 (Jun 30, 2017)

Fronta1 said:


> Stro3579 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone use dish detergent Instead of surfactant?
> ...


Don't know much on dog shamoo, but dish detergent works ok.


----------



## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Welcome to TLF, glad to have you!

*Fertilizer:*
Can you tell us how much Milorganite you applied? If you applied at the bag rate, it would take 4 bags to cover the back 10k and another 4 to cover the front 10k. With a lawn that size, I would recommend you find a local farm store or a Siteone location that sells larger quantities of a balanced synthetic.

*Weeds/Crabgrass:*
I feel the weed battle is already lost this late in the season. You can attack them now, but it'll take multiple weekly or bi-weekly applications to get a full kill and *IF* that's successful, you'll be in the middle/late of September. You'll get 1 month of a weed free lawn (guessing).

I would focus on next year. Research and apply a solid Pre-Emergent this Fall (I have good success with Prodiamine). Get your soil corrected (if needed), and attack any weeds that make it past your Pre-emergent program.


----------



## SimpleGreen29 (Aug 16, 2017)

I don't know what the thin taller green pieces are below.


This is where we have pine trees to right side. However, it also like this about 15 ft left where there is sunlight so idk.


----------



## SimpleGreen29 (Aug 16, 2017)

Redtenchu said:


> Welcome to TLF, glad to have you!
> 
> *Fertilizer:*
> Can you tell us how much Milorganite you applied? If you applied at the bag rate, it would take 4 bags to cover the back 10k and another 4 to cover the front 10k. With a lawn that size, I would recommend you find a local farm store or a Siteone location that sells larger quantities of a balanced synthetic.
> ...


We put down at I believe ~ 15lb per thousand (4 bags)in the back yard which was at recommended spreader settings
Would killing the crabgrass now not help prevent further seed spread?
When do I apply pre-emergent? When grass is dormant or before?


----------



## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Killing it over the next 2-4 weeks will prevent seeds from being produced, but that's only if you get them all.

Putting down Pre-E now will prevent any new crabgrass (and other weeds) from germinating within a day or two of being watered in. I'd recommend you focus on this step!

If you want it killed this fall, I'd recommend Celsius WG, I've used many products and it's the only one I've had success with on crabgrass.


----------



## southernguy311 (Mar 17, 2017)

I see 4 things:

Bermuda
Tall Fescue(not turf type)
Crabgrass
Nutsedge


----------



## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Hello friend from NC! I used to live in Hickory, and I miss that area a lot. I really miss having four seasons... down here it's just "Hot" and "Not as Hot When It Was Hot".

I'll give you some advice based on my experience and from what I can see in the pictures. Your grass situation looks *VERY* similar to what I had prior to taking on the weeds in my lawn, and trying to assert dominance on them. If I was a betting man, I'd wager that you have a majority of carpet grass (the wide bladed grass) as a main grass type in your lawn, with some bermuda sprinkled in. The lime green blades that I see poking up, and probably grow the fastest after you mow is some type of sedge. It also appears that you recently cut the grass with a dull mower blade (get that thing sharpened ).

For overall control of the weeds, Celsius is amazing when it comes to killing them in bermuda lawns; however, if you have carpetgrass, it will kill it when applied at a medium rate. Then you have to decide what you're going to renovate your dead lawn with. Carpet grass does look nice when it's maintained, it doesn't require much water, and it responds well to light fertilization, so you could keep it until you decide to go with a monoculture of turfgrass. In your situation, and if you can afford it, I'd suggest getting a bottle of Celsius if you decide to let the bermuda be the major turf in your lawn. The cost per application is going to be much better than buying the Ortho products, and you can control your application rates. That being said, if you do decide to go this route, pick a test area that is inconspicuous, and spray to see what grass survives. Apply at a medium rate. If everything except nutsedge, and bermuda survives, you've got carpet grass.

If that is your scenario, then you can still gain effective control on a majority of your weeds and keep your grass with a light rate application; just be sure to read your mixing label, and get acquainted with the equipment that you'll need to do your applications.

Once you use a broad-spectrum weed control, you'll knock out about 80% of the crap that's growing in your lawn, then you can tackle the problematic and hard to kill weeds. I would also suggest looking at some of the pre-emergents so you can prepare your lawn for the coming winter weeds. Study up on what you'll need for your lawn, and find out the proper time to apply in your area. If you've had a green lawn during Nov-Feb, you've got weeds (unless you have some ryegrass ). I usually saw henbit in my lawn for the most part.

The other suggestion I have is to get in touch with the master gardener at your local extension agent's office. Ask if they'll come pay you a visit at your house, and they'll be able to identify everything in the pictures. They'll also be able to provide you with a bag so you can send off a soil sample to the extension agency labs for testing. They're going to be able to give you suggestions based on your turf type for what your NPK feeding schedule, and amendments for pH that are necessary. There's nothing wrong with the Soil Savvy kits, but they're double the price of the tests from the extension agency.


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Hello SimpleGreen29!!!! Welcome to TLF!! Would you mind updating your location info with your city? There are a lot of us here from NC and as you know depending on where you live in the state can make a big difference on the weather and can help us recommend place and products a little better sometimes.

Looks like you already have been given some solid advice and few things to think about over the off season . Feel free to ask as many questions as you would like as we are all here to help and learn!!


----------



## SimpleGreen29 (Aug 16, 2017)

I purchased some Quinclorac 75 DF along with some MSO surfactant and a soil test kit. Spraying soon.


----------



## SimpleGreen29 (Aug 16, 2017)

Sprayed Quinclorac and MSO on the front 10,000 with a 1 gallon pump sprayer. That was fun. Two days later purchased a 8 gallon tank spot sprayer and converted it to attach to my Agri-fab quick link platform as a broadcast sprayer. Works wonderful. Sprayed the back yard with it (portion my chickens will not be grazing on). Results to come.


----------



## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

SimpleGreen29 said:


> Sprayed Quinclorac and MSO on the front 10,000 with a 1 gallon pump sprayer. That was fun. Two days later purchased a 8 gallon tank spot sprayer and converted it to attach to my Agri-fab quick link platform as a broadcast sprayer. Works wonderful. Sprayed the back yard with it (portion my chickens will not be grazing on). Results to come.


Dude
you cant say you converted your 8 gallon tank to a broadcast sprayer without showing us!!!!
Pictures Please. lol lol


----------



## SimpleGreen29 (Aug 16, 2017)

Soil test results. Looking for advice on fertilizer application.


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

SimpleGreen29 said:


> Soil test results. Looking for advice on fertilizer application.


Looks like you could just go with straight Nitrogen on your lawn for now or find something with a little K(Potassium) in it wouldn't hurt either. We are getting towards the end of the growing season so you will want to make that application here in the next 4-6 weeks. Once the lawn goes dormant or after you apply the fertilizer you could put down some Lime to get that pH number up a little bit if you want. My lawn has always been around 6.0 pH and it does fine at that number.


----------



## SimpleGreen29 (Aug 16, 2017)

Got a bag of 34-0-0 from southern states.


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

SimpleGreen29 said:


> Got a bag of 34-0-0 from southern states.


I believe that's all fast release so I would only put down about 1.5lbs/K!


----------



## SimpleGreen29 (Aug 16, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> SimpleGreen29 said:
> 
> 
> > Got a bag of 34-0-0 from southern states.
> ...


Thanks for your help. I dont know what setting to use on my spreader to make it last. I have a scotts mini broadcast.


----------



## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

SimpleGreen29 said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> > SimpleGreen29 said:
> ...


I know starting at 5 on the dial is a good place to start and then you can adjust up or down from there. Just know how much product you have and what area you are trying to cover and you should be fine.


----------



## SimpleGreen29 (Aug 16, 2017)

Here are pictures after quinclorac application. Front area of picture not sprayed due to chickens grazing.


----------



## slomo (Jun 22, 2017)

For a 20,000 SF lawn, you would need 11 bags of Milorganite, 400 lbs worth at the cost of $144.44 per Home Depot's price. WOW!! This is at 1 pound of Nitrogen per 1,000 feet. This is calculated using the pounds on the ground formula. Or 20 pounds per 1,000 square feet. Big lawns like ours are a chore.

slomo


----------



## slomo (Jun 22, 2017)

Nice soil test. Some 46-0-0 would wake it up nicely. That is if you are looking to fill in areas or want growth. Don't expect much from Milorganite. Unless if you want to feel "organic" or something. ??

I just found out that Halts combats more than crab grass. You might want to check it out.

slomo


----------



## slomo (Jun 22, 2017)

Quinclorac like others works on small 1-2 tiller plants. Got to catch the crab grass when its small or it's hard to kill. Keep this in mind when bag/product reading labels. Halt's in Scotts fert or Lesco will help.

slomo


----------

