# Powhatan's 2020 Lawn Journal



## Powhatan

2019 Journal
*2020 Lawn Plan*​_Objectives: biodiverse, low maintenance, non-irrigated, heat and drought tolerant_​
Mid/Late Winter:


Hand-pull weeds.

Dormant overseed fescue and shade grass seed.

Lite overseed clover - front yard.

Spring:


Hand-pull or spot spray weeds with Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control.

Spray glyphosate on poa trivialis patches, re-seed dead patches.

Garden Safe organic Neem Oil Extract - spot treat grass fungus & garden pests.

EcoLogic organic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer (R-T-S) and granular - house foundation & lawn perimeter treatment.

Scotts Foundation Soil Improver.

Scotts GrubEx - active ingredient chlorantraniliprole better for the bees.

Spray N-Ext RGS & Air-8 apps.

Andersons HumiChar soil improver.

LESCO Dimension Pre-emergent 19-0-7 fertilize - after new grass 2nd cut.

Alfalfa pellets low nitrogen slow release organic fertilize - grass & soil feeding.

Mulch mow grass (bag mow if disease present) @ HOC 3.25".

Summer:


Hand-pull or spot spray weeds with Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control.

Garden Safe organic Neem Oil Extract - spot treat grass fungus & garden pests.

EcoLogic organic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer granular - house foundation & lawn perimeter treatment.

Safer Brand Lawn Restore 9-0-2 low nitrogen slow release organic fertilize.

Alfalfa pellets low nitrogen slow release organic fertilize - grass & soil feeding.

Jonathan Green Love Your Soil soil improver

LESCO 0-0-45 PCSOP - improves overall plant health

Mulch mow grass @ HOC 3.50".

Early Fall:


Hand-pull or spot spray weeds with Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control.

Andersons HumiChar or LESCO CarbonPro-G soil improver.

LESCO Pendimethalin Pre-emergent 0-0-7.

Nutrients Plus 16-2-3 low nitrogen organic fertilize.

Mulch mow grass & leaves @ HOC 3.50".

Mid Fall:


Hand-pull weeds.

Nutrients Plus 16-2-3 low nitrogen organic fertilize - after first freeze air temps.

Mulch mow grass & leaves @ HOC 3.25".

*2020 End of Season Summary*​
Seed:


Dormant overseed KY-31/NoMix/Fine fescue/Clover.

Irrigation:


Non-irrigated yearly except for poa trivialis kill patch areas and cover crop mix area new grass establishment.

Fertilize:


Spring - synthetic, Summer - organic, late Summer & early Fall - hybrid (synthetic with organic ingredients), and late Fall - synthetic. Yearly amount ~2.50#N with a split 1#N as final "winter" application in Nov for total ~3.50#N. I may not do a "winter" app next year.

Broadcasted two ~.85#K apps during Summer months to help with plant health & stress. If next soil report again recommends additional potassium I will broadcast during Spring so grass will have the nutrient before Summer stress sets in.

Fungus - No synthetic fungicides used:


Mowed with sharp blade at lower HOC 3.25" to encourage air flow during the fungal disease favorable reveal period. Bag mowed if disease suspect or seen.

Sprayed organic neem oil on new forming brown patch, pythium blight, and rust disease areas to smother disease pathogen spores to help limit spreading.

Weeds:


Spring - granular dithiopyr PreM, Fall - granular pendimethalin PreM.

Hand-pulled mostly. Sprayed selective herbicide on nutsedge, glyphosate non-selective on poa trivialis, and Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control non-selective on various weeds bordering the lawn. Poa trivialis continues to be the primary weed.

Insects:


Spring - granular Scotts GrubEx. Spring & Summer - granular organic EcoLogic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer to mostly kill the ticks. Sprayed neem oil on june bugs seen on bushes.

Soil Amendments:


Sprayed last of N-Ext RGS & Air-8 that I had on-hand. The Air-8 didn't seem to loosen the soil.

Tried different granular products - Broadcasted HumiChar, Scotts Foundation Soil Improver, Jonathan Green Love Your Soil, and LESCO CarbonPro-G. I plan to use the LESCO CarbonPro-G product next year

Filled in lawn low spots with top soil.


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## Powhatan

Moderate air and soil temps this past week. Soil temps been ~55F, wonder if we'll have early spring weeds.

Several lighter green clumps growing taller than the surrounding darker grass. I've seen these before last year growing faster than the desired grass, I suspect poa trivialis. The lighter green patch is definitely a poa trivialis, I gently dug around the clump base and noticed a "string of beads" rough bluegrass root.


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## Powhatan

Rain and cold front came through, soil temp dropped to 42F. Seasonal temps for next couple of weeks with daily chance of rain showers, but no snow. I need to cut down two dead oak trees later this month and then purchase the grass seed that I'll "dormant" overseed in Feb.

Hand-pulled poa annua growing in the gravel driveway.

Broadcasted ~.5# white clover seeds over the front lawn ~3M, just decided to do it, we'll call it a winter test. I've read that some clover can germinate when soil temp is as low as ~40F. If the seed takes, great, if not, I need to broadcast more anyway later in the early spring.


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## Green

@Powhatan, why so much cover seed when clover seems to spread readily on it's own? Do you want it to be so thick that it's hard to see the grass through it? Just curious. I've never planted clover, but have it so thick in some areas that it dominates the grass. And I've knocked it back with herbicides a few times over the last few years.

I agree those clumps are probably all Triv.

Grass stil looks nice and green. Soil temps above 40 will do that.

I would also keep the CRF seed percentages significantly lower than the TF/TTTF. Maybe as disparate as 90/10. For some reason, that grass tends to dominate over time when used in higher seed percentages...it's tough stuff. And it can go quite brown in the Summer. Of course, CRF dominating is exacerbated by low fertility. We have lawns in the neighborhood that were low input with some shade, and are essentially all CRF/Chewings Fescue now, 30+ years later. But there are other lawns that get a lot of maintenance and sun, and the CRF/Chewings seems to play nice with the TF after the same amount of time elapsed. On my walk today, I saw some of those older mixed Fescue lawns that have held up really well over the years and maintained their composition.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Powhatan, why so much cover seed when clover seems to spread readily on it's own? Do you want it to be so thick that it's hard to see the grass through it? Just curious. I've never planted clover, but have it so thick in some areas that it dominates the grass. And I've knocked it back with herbicides a few times over the last few years.


@Green I didn't put down .5 lb per 1,000 SqFt if you're thinking that. I used the same ~ (approx) clover:grass seeding rate ratio on the front lawn area as I used on the sides and back yard area.

.17 lb (clover seed) : 6 lb (grass seed) per 1,000 SqFt

The .17 lb : 6 lb ratio is slightly lower than the % clover to TTTF seed mix ratio as discussed in the below document that I found when searching for clover & fescue grass turf mixes. I know the document says microclover, but that's the only "clover" mix document I could find.



> _... if a seeding rate of 6 lbs. tall fescue per 1000 ft2 is used, approximately 0.2
> to 0.3 pounds of microclover should be mixed with the 6 lbs. of tall fescue. Higher rates of microclover
> are not beneficial, and above 10% may result in a stand that is predominately microclover._
> 
> Microclover - Tall Fescue Lawns in the MidAtlantic Region


I'm not trying to have a thick clover lawn, rather I'm trying to obtain a low input polyculture lawn that is reasonably heat and drought tolerant and does well in a non-irrigated sun/shade environment. I've read that white clover does well in wet soils, so this may compete against the poa trvialis and crowd it out. Also, I understand clover thrives in nitrogen deficient soils and the clover spread can be throttled per se by applying more/less supplemental nitrogen fertilizer to the turf.



Green said:


> I agree those clumps are probably all Triv.


I thought those were triv. I hope the infestation this year is not as much as I saw last spring. I'll kill as much as I can, but I'll also re-seed the killed patch with desirable grass as you did last spring.



Green said:


> I would also keep the CRF seed percentages significantly lower than the TF/TTTF. Maybe as disparate as 90/10. For some reason, that grass tends to dominate over time when used in higher seed percentages...it's tough stuff. And it can go quite brown in the Summer. Of course, CRF dominating is exacerbated by low fertility. We have lawns in the neighborhood that were low input with some shade, and are essentially all CRF/Chewings Fescue now, 30+ years later. But there are other lawns that get a lot of maintenance and sun, and the CRF/Chewings seems to play nice with the TF after the same amount of time elapsed. On my walk today, I saw some of those older mixed Fescue lawns that have held up really well over the years and maintained their composition.


I'm mixing a smaller 3lb/7lb Scotts Tall Fescue Dense Shade (TTTF/CRF) bag with the larger KY-31/TTTF amounts when I overseed, then broadcast the smaller clover amount. The Scotts Dense Shade bag contain 7% CRF.

Thanks for all the comments, much appreciated. :thumbup:


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## Green

Ok, that makes sense now. Definitely keep an eye on the clover percentage in the lawn over time and figure out how to manage it for the desired ratio. I've found clover does well in the heat.

As far as the Triv, if you kill and reseed, I'd do it as early as practical. Last year, I took forever to get it done, seeded much of it in early June, and by the time the 90s rolled around in July, it was a challenge to keep new grass going and healthy. I had to water twice a day by hand, and probably lost a bit. Most ended up surviving, but some did not grow taller until October. Since you often get 90s in June and sometimes low 100s in July, you'd ideally want to start a lot earlier than I did. I did it too late. Yes, it worked out, but it was too nerve wracking and a ton of effort watering. I think this year, I'll try to plant in late April. For you, maybe late March if weather allows. I agree; hopefully neither of us have as many infested areas this year!


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## Powhatan

Temps this morning: air 68F and soil 56F. If I was doing PreM, I'd put it down now earlier than average date.

Hand-pulled some poa annua, poa trivialis, horseweed, and orchardgrass weeds.

Since soil temps are warm, I looked for any clover emergence from last week's broadcast, nothing yet. Still have lots of young TF/TTTF one tiller stage grass from late Oct's overseed still green and looking healthy.


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## Powhatan

Air temps for the week started above normal, then Fri morning they dipped down to seasonal. Soil temp this morning is 42F. Grass is a little bit greener now than this time last year. I'm seeing more rabbits and deer, and an opossum eating in the back yard. I continue to hand-pull a weed or two as I notice them. Seeing lots of wild onions in the gravel road area. No new white clover emergence yet in the front yard even though soil temp for a few days was ~56F, probably too chilly at night and the seeds know better than to germinate.

I bought a 50# bag DLF Pickseed coated KY-31 on sale from TSC to broadcast that with some TTTF/CRF early next month's "dormant" overseed.


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## Green

@Powhatan, how does the KY-31 weed percentage look this year?


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Powhatan, how does the KY-31 weed percentage look this year?


@Green, the weed % slightly better than last fall, but better yet ... no poa annua. :thumbup:

The bag I got has practically the same weed % as the bag I got two years ago: 1.60% other crop and 0.25% other weeds, the noxious weeds are hairy chess and annual ryegrass. It's a forage grass seed bag, won't be perfect. I can live with those noxious weeds, they are annuals and need to grow taller than typical lawn HOC to flower new seeds. Those weeds will stand out when growing and will be easy to spot and pull, else I'll mow what I don't pull so they won't reproduce.


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> The bag I got has practically the same weed % as the bag I got two years ago: 1.60% other crop and 0.25% other weeds, the noxious weeds are hairy chess and annual ryegrass. It's a forage grass seed bag, won't be perfect. I can live with those noxious weeds, they are annuals and need to grow taller than typical lawn HOC to flower new seeds. Those weeds will stand out when growing and will be easy to spot and pull, else I'll mow what I don't pull so they won't reproduce.


That doesn't sound as terrible as last year's.

For comparison, here's the bag I declined to purchase last year:









Both have Hairy Chess, considered noxious. Mine also had Dock. I have no idea what either of those are, or how well your strategy might work on one or the other. Are you confident you can eradicate them by mowing as needed and not letting them get super tall?

And it goes without saying that anything labeled that it has Triv is an automatic no-purchase.

I may consider this year's batch of seed, still, based on what you stated above.


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## Powhatan

Air temps 30sF/10sF, soil 32F - finally feels like winter.



Green said:


> Are you confident you can eradicate them by mowing as needed and not letting them get super tall?


I've got a positive attitude that I can give the noxious weeds a good fight. :fight:

The hairy chess has a tall slender stalk when not cut. They are not like poa annua growing low to the ground before flowering, they need to get tall when they flower. On the positive, while the weed is growing in the ground it's roots are aerating the soil and when the plant dies it provides nutrients/OM, like a cover crop.



Green said:


> And it goes without saying that anything labeled that it has Triv is an automatic no-purchase.


Right, that's why I didn't buy last fall when the KY-31 bag said it included poa annua.

on the flip side though ... no lawn is 100% weed free.

A post from @Oregonseed about weed testing.


> _Just because the tag says it is crop and weed free is not 100% accurate. ... We often resample lots to get different results! One test will show poa so we resample and it comes back with no poa! We all know there is poa present but now can be sold as crop and weed free._


That being said, it's still always prudent to buy quality grass seed that tested 0% or close as possible to 0% for your specific location application needs.


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## Powhatan

rough bluegrass - poa trivialis



wild onion


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## Powhatan

Warm front with rain showers came through last night, air temps back up to 50s, soil temp 47F. A neighbor will help me tomorrow cut down a dead oak tree.

Sometime within the next few weeks I'll broadcast the "dormant" TF/TTTF/CRF overseed. Previous two years, seed germination occurred in Mar, early to late month depending on soil temperature. In Apr I'll check to see what the clover coverage is and broadcast some more clover seed if needed.

Practically every night this month the rabbits and deer have been eating grass in the back and front yard. I don't see any damage they might be doing, must have plenty of green grass to chew on.


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## Powhatan

The clover I broadcasted in the front yard on Jan 5 is starting to emerge right in the middle of winter calendar season. Soil temps past few weeks been generally between 50s to 30sF. Now the real test will be if the clover seedlings can survive the rest of winter.

John Deere dealer sharpened riding mower mulch blades, reattached mower deck and greased zerk fittings.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some poa annua and poa trivialis.

Grass is looking greener this January than last year.

Purchased 6 lb Scotts Tall Fescue Dense Shade (TTTF/CRF). I now have all grass seed needed for next month's dormant overseed.


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## Powhatan

Soil temp 46F. Moss spores are becoming active. Last year I noticed same event mid-Feb when I dormant overseeded grass. The air temps now and 10 day forecast are the same as last year mid-Feb, so I went ahead and dormant overseeded today: KY-31/TTTF/CRF @ 6#/M - 50# DLF Pickseed coated KY-31, 20# Scotts coated TTTF Southern Gold, and 3# Scotts coated TTTF/CRF Dense Shade. Last year grass seed emergence was mid-Mar. This year may be earlier than that.


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## Chris LI

Great documentation! Your past/present info is a very good benchmark/indicator of when to dormant seed. I'm curious to see what your results will be. Yesterday, I was considering writing off my dormant seed, because it appears timing will be difficult to get it right because of the mild winter we have had, so far. I usually wait until February, when we start to see some frost heaves, to make sure we have a series of them to work the seed into the earth. Maybe I shouldn't write it off for this year, yet. Thanks for including this in your journal. I think that it will be helpful to others.


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## Powhatan

Chris LI said:


> Great documentation! Your past/present info is a very good benchmark/indicator of when to dormant seed. I'm curious to see what your results will be. Yesterday, I was considering writing off my dormant seed, because it appears timing will be difficult to get it right because of the mild winter we have had, so far. I usually wait until February, when we start to see some frost heaves, to make sure we have a series of them to work the seed into the earth. Maybe I shouldn't write it off for this year, yet. Thanks for including this in your journal. I think that it will be helpful to others.


Thanks. Science and nature have a lot to tell us, just gotta look. :wink:


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## Chris LI

Powhatan said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great documentation! Your past/present info is a very good benchmark/indicator of when to dormant seed. I'm curious to see what your results will be. Yesterday, I was considering writing off my dormant seed, because it appears timing will be difficult to get it right because of the mild winter we have had, so far. I usually wait until February, when we start to see some frost heaves, to make sure we have a series of them to work the seed into the earth. Maybe I shouldn't write it off for this year, yet. Thanks for including this in your journal. I think that it will be helpful to others.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. Science and nature have a lot to tell us, just gotta look. :wink:
Click to expand...

Absolutely! On many occasions my wife has accused me of "kissing the grass" and has claimed of seeing blades of grass in my goatee. Maybe she's right. Lol
I do admit to being on hands and knees with my forehead grazing the ground, while inspecting the turf. :ugeek:


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## Powhatan

Air temp 49F, soil 44F. Temps and precipitation tracking about the same as last year.

Hand-pulled some poa annua, poa trivialis, horseweed, and orchardgrass.

Shadier damp sides of house have moss growing as expected, but some moss is growing out in the yard in sunnier loose soil areas, suspect low pH in those sunnier spots. I bought a 10 test "rapitest" pH soil test kit to give me quick general comparison of pH levels for separate lawn areas.

poa trivialis. Purple stem color up to the first collar and beyond, I saw the same characteristic last spring.



I pulled the poa triv up, it has the "string of beads" stem.


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## Green

I had moss in sunny areas this time last year. My pH was not what you'd consider low, and cations were balanced.


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## Powhatan




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## Powhatan

Current soil temp 49F, yesterday afternoon was 53F. Precipitation next few days. Air temps still tracking about the same as last year.

Hand-pulled some poa trivialis and fed those to the compost tumbler.

I noticed a few single grass blade emergence. Not sure if from seeds broadcasted last week or from late Oct. Recent clover seedlings showing more appearance over front yard.

I made two test plot areas outside the grass lawn area to broadcast KY-31 seeds that I harvested last summer. I raked out the fallen leaves in the test plot areas and placed flag markers around the boarder. Soil is natural, no fertilizer amendments, and no pH adjustments. Don't know if seeds are even viable. I've kept the seeds in a sealed plastic bag located in a cool dry area so maybe there's a chance some small % will germinate.

I wonder if it was the rabbit droppings or the clover that gave this grass clump a growth kick. :wink:


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## Green

I see boat-shaped tips in that last one!


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> I see boat-shaped tips in that last one!


What boat-shape tip species are you seeing?


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see boat-shaped tips in that last one!
> 
> 
> 
> What boat-shape tip species are you seeing?
Click to expand...

I know I see at least one or two bluegrass blades in the foreground. But I think there are also blades with veins. Is this bunch a mix of HBG and TTTF by chance?

Also, any idea about the balls on the left? I saw similar things outside today. Terds? Owl pellets? Fungus? Insect eggs?


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see boat-shaped tips in that last one!
> 
> 
> 
> What boat-shape tip species are you seeing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know I see at least one or two bluegrass blades in the foreground. But I think there are also blades with veins. Is this bunch a mix of HBG and TTTF by chance?
> 
> Also, any idea about the balls on the left? I saw similar things outside today. Terds? Owl pellets? Fungus? Insect eggs?
Click to expand...

The grass clump appears to have a mix of mostly TTTF and BG with a few CRF blades. Slim possible could be HBG but I believe the HBG is light'ish green. It's probably KBG from the Scotts Dense Shade mix I broadcasted last fall. The dense shade mix has a small amount of Avalanche cultivar KBG along with the TTTF & CRF.

The balls are rabbit droppings. Rabbit manure has 3 to 4.8 %N.


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## Powhatan

Cherry blossoms blooming a week earlier than last year.


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## Green

I did not realize you also put duwn some KBG seed. It does look like KBG to me as well.

Rabbit droppings make sense.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> I did not realize you also put duwn some KBG seed. It does look like KBG to me as well.


That dense shade has < 3% KBG seed, a very small amount so I didn't think to mention it when I updated my journal about the seed broadcast.


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## Powhatan

Air temp this morning 27F, soil 34F. Lots of rain past few days, heavy at times, was very windy yesterday with gusts up to ~50 MPH. The fresh water lake is up ~2 FT. One large tree fell in the backyard away from the house, lots of various size tree branches down all over. I still see broadcasted grass seeds over the lawn, not as much as before the rain storms, I have some reserve seed that I'll broadcast later.


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## Powhatan

Soil temp 47F. Hand-pulled some hairy bittercress, poa trivialis, horseweed, and orchardgrass. I broadcasted the reserve grass seed I had. Moderate air temps returning along with daily chance of rain showers.


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## Powhatan

Received ~3" rain past couple of days. Air temps returning to moderate to slightly above average. Soil temp low 50sF.

Forsythia yellow buds starting to appear. Some Daffodils are blooming, most have yellow buds forming. This is occurring about two weeks earlier than last year.

The rain hasn't washed away most grass seeds I recently broadcasted. Last year the seeds germinated mid-Mar; I suspect this year it will happen earlier.


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## Powhatan

Planing to purchase my low nitrogen fertilizer in the next few weeks for this season. I'm going with Screamin Green 16-2-3 for spring, early fall, and mid-fall applications; Safer Brand Lawn Restore 9-0-2 for summer application.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some poa annua, poa trivialis, horseweed, and orchardgrass. Air temp 34F, soil 41F. Looks like a week from now temps start warming up again.

I'm seeing a few more random grass seedlings appear, mostly the blue coated Scotts seeds in the sunnier parts of the front lawn. Since I don't see many grass seeds just sitting on the ground surface now, I'm hoping most of them made their way down into the soil and not washed away with the recent heavy rains.

The GreenCast  GDD tool base 50F says for this date: last year YTD 51, this year YTD 67. Last year mid-Mar when I noticed wide spread grass seed emergence the YTD was 89. Be curious what this year's YTD GDD # will be.


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## Powhatan

Got my fertilizer for the season:

Winter - Deer and rabbit droppings (free-of-charge)
Spring - 50# Screamin Green 16-2-3
Summer - 50# Lawn Restore 9-0-2
early Fall - 50# Screamin Green 16-2-3
mid-Fall - 50# Screamin Green 16-2-3

Just need to purchase these to have all what I need (plan) for the year:

Bioadvanced granular "Complete Insect Killer" for grubs & ticks
EcoLogic organic "Lawn & Yard Insect Killer" for ticks.


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## uts

Any reason why you prefer the bio advance granular "Complete Insect Killer" for grubs & ticks co pared to something like Spectracide Triazicide Lawn Insect Killer Granules?


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## Powhatan

uts said:


> Any reason why you prefer the bio advance granular "Complete Insect Killer" for grubs & ticks co pared to something like Spectracide Triazicide Lawn Insect Killer Granules?


From what I can tell reading the labels, the Spectracide one kills surface/sub-surface pests on contact except for ants which is season long. The BioAdvanced one kills surface/sub-surface pests on contact in addition sub-surface pests up to 3 months.

A couple years ago when I started using the BioAdvanced product, I was using GrubEx for grubs and separate product for ticks for the seasonal first pest application. I currently don't have a big grub/June bug problem, more of a tick problem. Since two products were $$$, I found the BioAdvanced controlled both grubs and ticks in one product at a lower $ and I could use that for the first pest application, then subsequent monthly tick only pest applications as needed. Maybe I'll find a different product/solution in the future when I compare products again.


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## uts

Powhatan said:


> uts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any reason why you prefer the bio advance granular "Complete Insect Killer" for grubs & ticks co pared to something like Spectracide Triazicide Lawn Insect Killer Granules?
> 
> 
> 
> From what I can tell reading the labels, the Spectracide one kills surface/sub-surface pests on contact except for ants which is season long. The BioAdvanced one kills surface/sub-surface pests on contact in addition sub-surface pests up to 3 months.
> 
> A couple years ago when I started using the BioAdvanced product, I was using GrubEx for grubs and separate product for ticks for the seasonal first pest application. I currently don't have a big grub/June bug problem, more of a tick problem. Since two products were $$$, I found the BioAdvanced controlled both grubs and ticks in one product at a lower $ and I could use that for the first pest application, then subsequent monthly tick only pest applications as needed. Maybe I'll find a different product/solution in the future when I compare products again.
Click to expand...

Surprisingly enough I got this the first time because I was getting ants coming into my house. One applicatuin in June and never saw anything again


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## Chris LI

uts said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any reason why you prefer the bio advance granular "Complete Insect Killer" for grubs & ticks co pared to something like Spectracide Triazicide Lawn Insect Killer Granules?
> 
> 
> 
> From what I can tell reading the labels, the Spectracide one kills surface/sub-surface pests on contact except for ants which is season long. The BioAdvanced one kills surface/sub-surface pests on contact in addition sub-surface pests up to 3 months.
> 
> A couple years ago when I started using the BioAdvanced product, I was using GrubEx for grubs and separate product for ticks for the seasonal first pest application. I currently don't have a big grub/June bug problem, more of a tick problem. Since two products were $$$, I found the BioAdvanced controlled both grubs and ticks in one product at a lower $ and I could use that for the first pest application, then subsequent monthly tick only pest applications as needed. Maybe I'll find a different product/solution in the future when I compare products again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Surprisingly enough I got this the first time because I was getting ants coming into my house. One applicatuin in June and never saw anything again
Click to expand...

This product sounded interesting (and sounded like an organic insecticide), so I looked up the label. It definitely should be effective, because it's based on Merit (imidacloprid) plus the secondary insecticide. Unfortunately, it's not labeled for my area, so it's off the table (too many groundwater hits of imidacloprid). If anyone is looking for an organic insecticide, Essentria G insecticide, or the like. They are basically Wintergreen oil (Eugenol/Thymol) impregnated in corn cobs as a medium. I still have some of this from a few years ago, and it smells great FYI.


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## Powhatan

Chris LI said:


> This product sounded interesting (and sounded like an organic insecticide), so I looked up the label. It definitely should be effective, because it's based on Merit (imidacloprid) plus the secondary insecticide. Unfortunately, it's not labeled for my area, so it's off the table (too many groundwater hits of imidacloprid). If anyone is looking for an organic insecticide, Essentria G insecticide, or the like. They are basically Wintergreen oil (Eugenol/Thymol) impregnated in corn cobs as a medium. I still have some of this from a few years ago, and it smells great FYI.


That *Eco EXEMPT™ GRANULAR INSECTICIDE* is similar to *EcoLogic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer Granular2* that I use for the surface pests (mainly ticks). I buy the 10 lb bags for $13 from either Lowe's or Home Depot. Good stuff and smells minty fresh. :thumbsup:



I've read for grub organic control to use: neem oil, beneficial nematodes, or milky spore. I have used neem oil only as a spot treatment fungicide. I could expand the neem oil use as both fungicide and pesticide preventative treatments, but need to be very careful to not apply when air temps are over 90F as this will basically fry the grass.

Edit: Will use GrubEx instead of BioAdvanced, less harmful to the bees.


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## Chris LI

Thanks! One of the guys at work who I'm giving some tips, seed, and fert to mentioned that he used neem oil to effectively treat red thread, and also cautioned me about using it in the heat. Milky spore has been around for quite awhile, but I haven't tried it. I believe it's more of a longer term solution (as over a couple of years), but haven't looked it up for a long time.


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## Powhatan

Soil temp 56F. Lot's of recent rainfall. Grass germination more apparent, but not quite widespread yet. Daffodils are full bloom; Forsythia starting to bloom. YTD GDD 73.5


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## Powhatan

Nothing fancy ... repurposed scrap 75+ year old red bricks for an edging around the A/C condenser units. Brick core holes placed horizontal to allow water/condenser drainage. I'll add something more permanent for the surrounding footer to replace the temporary edging anchors.


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## Powhatan

YTD GDD 77.5, air temp 27F, and soil temp 35F this morning. Air temps heading up to 60sF this week. If I calculated future GDD with forecasted temps correctly, the YTD GDD will be near 90 by the end of this week. Last year wide spread grass emergence occurred in mid-Mar when YTD GDD was 89.

Grass is a lot greener now than it was last year same time, maybe the clover is helping. Almost needs a mower cut to tidy it up, but I gotta wait till the new grass comes up and gets established, maybe first week in Apr for the first cut. By then the poa trivialis clumps will be very noticeable and I'll start spray killing those.


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## Powhatan

Bees and butterflies are out. Hand-pulled some poa annua, poa trivialis, and orchardgrass.

My last soil test performed March 2019 by Va Tech said my lawn pH was 6.6

Curious what one of those home Rapidtest pH Soil Tester would say ...

Performed a simple soil pH test on the front and back yards, and back natural woods. Soil temp in front and back yards 48F, natural woods 55F. I picked areas in the front and back yards that are in the middle of the yard and receive a balance of sun and shade, but also has some moss. The area in the back woods I used as a kinda control test; it is a natural undisturbed spot that I removed ~2" layer of leaves to get to the soil layer, I suspected it had to be more acidic than the lawn.

I took my best guess comparing water color to what the pH number would be.

Natural woods (control) - Looks slightly orange shade, calling it 5.7 pH

Back yard - Looks slightly darker than the 5.7, calling it 6.1 pH

Front yard - Looks green shade, calling it 6.5 pH


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## Powhatan

Air temp 60F, soil 49F, will be sunny and warm rest of the week, good growing conditions.

Sprayed several young poa trivialis clumps with glyphosate 50.2% concentrate 3oz/GL mix. The poa triv has been growing since Jan next to the house, now that the whole lawn soil is warming up I can see the young triv spreading out and starting to smother the desired grass. I'll probably need to spray at least a few more times this spring.

DLF Pickseed KY-31 "weed seed" annual ryegrass appearing, won't be long before the desirable grass comes up.


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## Powhatan

We have dormant overseed emergence. :clapping:

Current soil temp 51F. YTD GDD is 88.5, that's .5 less than last year's 89 when I noticed grass emergence.

Here's some coming up in one of my KY-31 test plots. These seeds were harvested last summer from the KY-31 clump growing in the unfertilized gravel road ditch.


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> Here's some coming up in one of my KY-31 test plots. These seeds were harvested last summer from the KY-31 clump growing in the unfertilized gravel road ditch.


Nice! Looking forward to trying my own seed! 
Looks like a snail (out of focus) in the foreground.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's some coming up in one of my KY-31 test plots. These seeds were harvested last summer from the KY-31 clump growing in the unfertilized gravel road ditch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice! Looking forward to trying my own seed!
> Looks like a snail (out of focus) in the foreground.
Click to expand...

I wasn't so sure if the harvested seed would germinate. I think that snail looking thing is actually the top side of an oak nut.


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## Powhatan

Just need EcoLogic organic insecticide (ticks) and I'm set for the season.


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## Powhatan

The poa trivialis patches I sprayed 7 days ago are turning yellow. I guess I need to wait another week or more to see if they are actually dead, not just the blades but the roots as well.

Winter dormant overseed grass coming up in abundance in the front yard which receives the most sun. Got some rain in the forecast this and next week.

Clover doing well in the back and side yards, seeing bees and butterflies. In the front yard I think the below freezing temps killed most of the Jan germinated clover, looks like I'll need to put down some more clover seed.


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## Green

Lots of Poa Trivialis this year here, too. It's breaking dormancy right now, mostly ahead of the other grass. Unfortunately it looks like there's going to be a lot of spraying this Spring. I also have a 1,000 square foot renovation area to do that has a lot of it, in addition to the patches.


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## Powhatan

83F for a high yesterday. Picked up several small sticks in the yard. Seeing more rabbit droppings than deer droppings. Also seeing worm castings. The dogwood tree leaf buds are opening up. Pollen levels on the rise and hay fever symptoms kicking in.

I haven't mowed yet, maybe middle of next month after the new grass comes up. I'll probably need to cut the grass high tops with the string trimmer before the first full lawn cut.

Sprayed 2nd glyphosate application on poa trivialis patches, 11 days since first spray application. I plan to overseed the dead patches (and other general areas) in ~2 weeks with a mix of KY-31/TTTF/PRG. Using PRG due to it's quick germination. I have PRG clumps that survived last summer, so might get lucky again this year. The Pure Seed "silver dollar" PRG cultivar that Scotts sells is suppose to have improved heat and drought tolerance.

Here's what the poa triv patches look like before 2nd glyphosate spray, still has some green in the middle. I also sprayed a few inches passed around the triv clump grass permitter.


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## Green

83 already in March and it's not even Spring yet?! You'd think it were Southern FL or even Texas! That's crazy.

Keep at it with the Triv spraying. I will be starting in the week or so myself, most likely.

Good to hear your seed has been germinating well, even in some abnormally high temps. I assume you have not watered any of it manually yet, and it's still coming up just fine.


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## Powhatan

Haven't irrigated yet. I don't have an in-ground system and the only time if I put out hoses with sprinklers is late summer when seeding, even then I don't have sprinkler coverage for the whole yard. So my lawn is really at the mercy of mother nature to provide water. The back yard has the most triv patches. Doesn't look as bad as last year.


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## Powhatan

Rabbits are eating the foxtail weeds growing in the gravel road ditch.


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## Powhatan

73F and blue skies today. Grass wants to get up and go, just need some delicious rain for a boost.


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## social port

I really dislike those foxtail seedheads!
The color in your last picture looks very nice already.


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## Powhatan

social port said:


> I really dislike those foxtail seedheads!
> The color in your last picture looks very nice already.


The last pic was taken close to the house where the slightly warmer soil temps are. The grass right up against the house brick foundation is probably 8+" now, just haven't decided to start string trim cutting yet.

I hand-pull those foxtail seedhead stalks as much as I can when I seem them along side the gravel road. I've noticed one or two foxtail weeds in the lawn last year and the year before. I miss-identified one last spring thinking it was poa trivialis.


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## Powhatan

Been 5 days since 2nd glyphosate application spray on poa trivialis patches. Very little green left on a few grass blades.



I dug up some roots and they appear to be dead; tan colored and feels dry to the touch. Last year when I was spray killing the triv the roots still had some green color.

It will be drier and warmer next few days. I'll use *Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control* with 15% highest mix rate as the final "burndown" spray kill. Then re-seed dead patches a few days later.


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## Powhatan

Spring is here. Donated blood yesterday. Started teleworking from home this week. Seasonal allergies kicking in, no COVID-19 symptoms (knock on wood). Received a little bit of rain yesterday and lawn is responding. Air temps on the rise, high of 86F forecasted today. Hand-pulled some poa annua. My work vacation starts next week; I'll be staying home taking care of the lawn since the NC outer banks are closed to non-residents now.

One of the grass test plots still has grass coming up, but the other plot has no grass emergence yet. The test plot with new grass it's seeds came from the KY-31 clump growing in the gravel road ditch. The other plot with no grass it's seeds came from a clump growing in the front lawn; I wasn't sure if that clump was KY-31 or TTTF. If TTTF, then that may explain why no grass emergence yet - sterile seeds.

Clover is coming on strong all over the yard. New clover is coming up in the front yard now after I re-seeded that Mar 10. Word to the wise - A little clover seed goes a long way.

Gonna apply the final "burndown" kill spray to poa trivialis today so I can re-seed this weekend. My wife keeps nagging why so many brown spots in the yard. I explain why, but she's not a green thumb person so doesn't get it.


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## Powhatan

Hot today - Several surrounding Weather Underground stations recorded highs 87F to 90F, one near Williamsburg recorded 94F. Last year didn't get this hot till May.

All kinds of flying insects out now, some of them real annoying flying around my head while I'm trying to work, and I really hate those horse flies they hurt when they bite. The Flies Be Gone Fly Trap works really well, I put up at least a couple of these every spring.

3 hours since spraying Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control at 15% highest mix rate 2.4 cups/GL.

I'm calling the poa trivialis patches dead. There's still more smaller patches to kill and I'll get those when I can, but for now I need to focus on re-seeding desirable grass. It's a multi-year battle against the triv for sure.


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## Powhatan

Received overnight rain. A lot cooler today than yesterday. The ground was slightly damp and easy to work with, decided it was a good day to do some lawn work.

I raked and loosened the soil in the dead patch areas. Used the Stihl blower to blow off all leaves and lawn debris. Put down two bags of Scotts Soil Foundation Soil Improver. Used hand spreader to broadcast 3 LB Scotts Dense Shade Mix (TTTF/CRF/KBG). Broadcasted grass seed using tow behind spreader: 20 LB DLF Pickseed KY-31 and 14 LB Scotts Perennial Ryegrass (PRG). The soil was somewhat soft so the riding mower tires slightly pushed seeds down for a good seed to soil contact. Rain forecasted for Monday and several days following.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled several poa annua. You see one and there's always at least a few more near by. I didn't put down preM last fall, definitely putting down preM this year when soil temps fall to 70F.

Used the string trimmer to cut grass high tops from around house brick foundation.

Cleaned out debris around the Southern Wax Myrtle shrubs. Put down Espoma Organic Plant-tone fertilizer @ 1 cup/shrub and added fresh mulch layer, watered in.

The Encore Azaleas are starting to bud. I understand it's best to fertilize and prune them after the spring bloom.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some weeds.


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## Powhatan

PRG starting to emerge. We've had a couple days of rain since Saturday's overseed 4 days ago.


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## Green

I can't believe it hit 90 in Virginia in March. Must've easily beaten either a monthly or daily record. That is not good. Average high in March is what, 60?

As far as flies, last year something apparently bit me on the leg, maybe a fly. The bite site did not look good for weeks or more. I was starting to get worried for a while.


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## Powhatan

The Richmond Virginia temp averages are: Mar 60s, Apr 70s, and May 80s. The 90F we got last Fri there was a front coming in and the SW wind kicked up bringing lots of warm air. After the front came through the temps dropped to their normals.

In 1907 for Mar there were several days that had record highs in the 90s for Richmond, VA so recent high temps aren't unheard of.

Biting flies aren't fun. Some of those persistent annoying ones (deer flies?) hover just right behind me away from sight just looking for an opportunity to land and bite, they leave small welts. Then there's ticks, gotta worry about the Lone Star tick meat allergy bites. I usually find one or two crawling on me after I come back in from being outside. Have to wear long pants, long sleeve shirts, hat, and apply bug spray OFF. Such is life living out in the country next to the woods. When hot humid summer arrives seems most fly and tick encounters go down.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some poa annua, orchardgrass, and foxtail weeds.

Dogwood trees starting to bloom. I sowed several butterfly milkweed plants last fall and first one appears to be emerging.


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> Biting flies aren't fun. Some of those persistent annoying ones (deer flies?) hover just right behind me away from sight just looking for an opportunity to land and bite, they leave small welts. Then there's ticks, gotta worry about the Lone Star tick meat allergy bites. I usually find one or two crawling on me after I come back in from being outside. Have to wear long pants, long sleeve shirts, hat, and apply bug spray OFF. Such is life living out in the country next to the woods. When hot humid summer arrives seems most fly and tick encounters go down.


Disease was a concern of mine with flies, too. Not to mention ticks. I haven't used repellent yet, but once the mosquitoes start to bite I will. Even not near large wooded areas, you really have to suit up and be careful. I feel like the ticks are active most of the year here. I guess there's a reason Lyme disease is named what it is. Not sure if you've been to CT in your years, but I can remember going to beaches in Lyme a few times.

Of course we have much bigger disease concerns at the moment.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some poa annua, poa trivialis, orchardgrass, and foxtail weeds. Sprayed N-Ext RGS & Air-8 app. Lawn is not overall growing fast, but there are random high tops. I need to wait a couple more weeks to let more young grass come up before cutting the whole yard, then soon thereafter put down Lesco dithiopyr preM with fertilizer.


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## Powhatan

Christmas Ferns and lawn spider webs (not mycelium) appeared this morning.


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## Powhatan

Spun up my [email protected] crunchers to help fight COVID-19.

Hand-pulled some poa annua, poa trivialis, and orchardgrass weeds.

Not receiving enough frequent rainfall to keep the grass seeds and seedlings moist everyday. Put up four zone hose sprinklers in the back and side yards and set timers to run once in the morning for five minutes each zone. Hand water front yard with hose end nozzle.

Edit: Decided to include an additional mid-day five minute run time to each sprinkler zone.


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## social port

Wow, that Rosetta service is really cool.

I thought it is counterproductive to pull triv. Am I wrong about this?


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## Powhatan

social port said:


> Wow, that Rosetta service is really cool.
> 
> I thought it is counterproductive to pull triv. Am I wrong about this?


I crunch the World Community Grid app and the Rosetta, yep cool stuff. Feels good to support something that actually tries to solve a problem.

If you pull, like most weed pulling, is to get the roots not just top growth. That's why when people dig it out they dig farther away than just the immediate plant clump. Of course there's no 100% guarantee pull or dig you get everything.


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## Powhatan

Noticed a few KY-31 clumps already producing round stiff seed stems, no seed head yet. The tree pollen is covering everything right now.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some poa annua, poa trivialis, and orchardgrass weeds. Can't wait for the new grass to get higher so I do the first cut, then put down some fert.

Grass filling in and clover spreading. The clover is crowding out the poa trivialils and also growing where the moss is.


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## Powhatan

Serviced the 7 year old $150.00 Walmart 22" walk behind push mower: sharpened blade, changed out oil, cleaned air filter and spark plug electrode, and put in fresh gas. Last ran 4+ months ago, started up on the first pull - easy peasy.

Mowed grass high tops @ HOC 3.5".


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## Powhatan




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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled lots of poa annua.

It's been ~2.5 weeks since last overseed TF/TTTF/PRG/CRF/KBG (NoMix). The majority of the un-cut grass height is 1.5" to 3", no fertilizer app yet this year only RGS & Air-8 and Scotts Foundation Soil Improver. Last year first all lawn cut with Lesco fertilizer & preM was on Apr 20. Dithiopyr label says I can apply preM either 2 weeks after new grass germination or after 2nd cut.


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## Chris LI

Thanks for the Dogwood photo. It reminds me of my parents house, which was sold off a few years ago.


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## Powhatan

Chris LI said:


> Thanks for the Dogwood photo. It reminds me of my parents house, which was sold off a few years ago.


Too bad the flower only lasts a few weeks. I don't have a good camera to capture the how nice they look panoramic view. They are all around the house. Here's just one small section.


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## Chris LI

Beautiful! Thank you. You have a spectacular view of nature in your own yard! :thumbup: I can almost hear the birds when looking at that last photo. :nod:


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## Ybonnemaiso

Thanks for the lawn journal Powhatan, very well done. I have decided to tackle my POA triv problem this year. I am going to try 2 different approaches this year: glyphosate in the backyard, and microclover overseed in the side-yard, under a 100 year old tree where i do not want to use gly.
What's your experience about clover overcrowding POA triv? Do you think there is a chance this could work?


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## Powhatan

Ybonnemaiso said:


> Thanks for the lawn journal Powhatan, very well done. I have decided to tackle my POA triv problem this year. I am going to try 2 different approaches this year: glyphosate in the backyard, and microclover overseed in the side-yard, under a 100 year old tree where i do not want to use gly.
> What's your experience about clover overcrowding POA triv? Do you think there is a chance this could work?


Thanks, trying to keep good journal notes.

This is my first year with the clover mixed with the grass turf. I didn't think I broadcasted that much clover#/M but it sure is taking off, growing in all sorts of spots even where the triv is. I guess only time will tell if clover outcompetes the triv to render the triv unnoticeable. The main reason I put down the clover was to have more of a low maintenance turf with better overall heat & drought tolerance capabilities. It will be a BIG plus if the clover can naturally take care of the triv problem. After I mow the clover "weedy" look should blend better with the surrounding grass.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled more poa annua.

Sharpened push mower blade and mulch mowed grass & clover high tops @ HOC 3.5". The majority new grass is up to ~1.75" height.

Increased water sprinkler run time to eight minutes per zone to encourage deeper rooting.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?  Put down fertilizer or RGS first? Pondering about this last night I think the best course would be to spray the RGS & Air-8 first, then about a week later broadcast the Lesco fertilizer & dithiopyr preM.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some poa annua, poa trivialis, orchardgrass, and annual sedge weeds.

Found an annual sedge on the edge of the lawn. It has an emerging seed head in the middle of the stem. Plant is small now compared to what I pulled up last year in Aug. Current soil temp ~60F, guess this is one of those weeds that germinates when soil temps hit the ~50Fs. It's young, the blades have ridges to them but I don't quite feel a triangular shape. Bonide Sedge Ender looks to be a good chemical control herbicide.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some poa annua and orchardgrass weeds.

Sprayed N-Ext RGS & Air-8. The Ortho hose end sprayer kept clogging between 2 to 4 oz dial setting, had to bump up setting to 6 oz so product flowed again - I removed the pickup hose mesh filter when I first got the sprayer. That's the 4'th time spraying the "Compaction Cure" pack, twice last fall and twice this spring. So far doesn't appear the Air-8 is helping to loosen the compacted sandy loam soil (CEC 8.5), soil feels like a hard brick. Adding more OM will be a better course of action.


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## Powhatan

Overseeded 3.5 weeks ago. New grass up to ~3" now and tillering.


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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed, lowered HOC to 3.25". Broadcasted 50# Lesco Dimension Crabgrass Pre-emergent 19-0-7 fertilizer. Increased water sprinkler run time to ten minutes per zone, decreased watering time to once a day morning only.

Put down Pennington UltraGreen Azalea, Camellia & Rhododendron Plant Food 10-8-6 fertilizer @ 3/4 cup around each Encore Azalea, watered in.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some poa annua and orchardgrass weeds.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some poa annua and orchardgrass weeds. Not as many now.

The majority of poa annua has been growing on the shadiest side of the house where the grass/clover is the thinest.


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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.25". Daily rain forecasted all this week.


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## Powhatan

Encore azaleas starting to bloom.


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## Powhatan

New grass >3" now. Daily rain forecasted all this week; air temperatures & humidity % going up. Don't want irrigation wetness to contribute to potential fungal growth. Pulled up and put away lawn water timers, hoses, and sprinklers.


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## Powhatan

Earth Day​
33F for a low air temp last night. Majority of grass has grown .5" from Sun's mow.


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## Powhatan

Yesterday afternoon soil temp 64F. Seeing more clover blooms and grass seed heads appear.

Clover



KY-31 in the gravel road ditch



KY-31 in the lawn



Bluegrass? Might even be TTTF.



and the weed poa annua still appearing


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## Chris LI

Nice photos as always. I love the close ups. This week was a setback with cold, wet weather, so these are a pick-me-up. Thanks :mrgreen:


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## Powhatan

Chris LI said:


> Nice photos as always. I love the close ups. This week was a setback with cold, wet weather, so these are a pick-me-up. Thanks :mrgreen:


Thanks. Don't do stripes on my low maintenance lawn, so I try to take pics of something that I think is interesting.


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## Powhatan

A week of daily rain showers & some fertilizer and the grass shoots up ~2" higher.

On the shadier side of the lawn last summer some brown patch disease areas appeared here. I sprayed neem oil twice about two weeks apart which noticeably stopped the patches from enlarging. I plan to spray neem oil again this summer if any lawn disease appears.


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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed, raised HOC to 3.5"


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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed, lowered HOC to 3.25". Grass density is getting thick. The poa triv kill patches are still filling in. Sprayed EcoLogic organic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer.


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## Powhatan

Removed various lawn debris.


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## Powhatan

Already needs another cut. I'll let the lawn dry out from the recent rains and mow tomorrow.


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## Powhatan

Leveled the John Deere 48" mower deck, then mulch mowed @ HOC 3.25". Broadcasted 80# alfalfa pellets and 40# HumiChar for soil improvement using the John Deere tow behind spreader. This fall I may use the HumiChar again or try LESCO CarbonPro-G.


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## Powhatan

Sprayed some more EcoLogic organic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer around the house perimeter.

Next week or so I'll broadcast Scotts GrubEx and spray N-Ext RGS & Air-8; that will be last spring lawn application. Early summer I'll broadcast Safer Brand Lawn Restore organic slow release fertilizer.


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## Powhatan

Lawn needs another cut again.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some orchardgrass and dog fennel weeds.

So far the sun & shade grass varieties and clover have been growing well and looking healthy. The clover is filling in areas where most of the poa trivialis grows and hopefully is choking the triv out.


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## Powhatan

Grass grew to over 4"+ height since last cut. Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.25". Rain forecasted this evening and cold front coming through dropping night temps mid-30Fs.


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## Powhatan

Picked up fallen tree branches from the cold front moving through yesterday. Frost advisory tonight, need to cover up the flowering encore azaleas.


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## Powhatan

Been researching a replacement push mower, either gas or battery for a mid-size lawn. Practically all the quality walk behind mowers are self propelled; I don't need a pull me along mower, I'm able to push it myself.

Air temps rising to mid 80sF later in the week and thundershowers early next week. I'll give the grass another cut by this Wed and spray some more N-Ext RGS & Air-8. I'll broadcast Scotts GrubEx and granular EcoLogic organic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer this weekend.


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## Green

There are some decent to excellent manual push consumer 21 and 22 inch mowers on the current market. Unfortunately I don't remember some of the more obscure brands at the moment.

If you only need a 3.75 inch HOC, the two Toro/LawnBoy high rear wheel models with Honda engine could be an option. They have others with other engines, too, including a 22 inch smart stow with 4" HOC I believe. Cub Cadet (MTD) might still make a manual push mower.

Honda has a couple of manual push models still, I believe.

Some more options are under the other MTD brands, but they tend to be lower end.

There are other brands, too, like Snapper, etc., but I don't remember all of them.

Which are you leaning toward?

On paper, the Honda looks good: https://powerequipment.honda.com/lawn-mowers/models/hrn216pka

Or the pro model (double the cost):
https://powerequipment.honda.com/lawn-mowers/models/hrc216pda
100 lbs...bad idea if you have slopes.

List of Briggs and Stratton brand names if it helps: https://www.basco.com/who-we-are.html


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> There are some decent to excellent manual push consumer 21 and 22 inch mowers on the current market. Unfortunately I don't remember some of the more obscure brands at the moment.
> 
> If you only need a 3.75 inch HOC, the two Toro/LawnBoy high rear wheel models with Honda engine could be an option. They have others with other engines, too, including a 22 inch smart stow with 4" HOC I believe. Cub Cadet (MTD) might still make a manual push mower.


Thanks Green. Pretty much what you've listed I've seen listed on these various websites: Ace Hardware, TSC, Lowe's, Home Depot, Honda, Toro, Walmart, Stihl.

For a gas this one below is what I'm looking for spec range: 22", 150cc or more, max HOC 4", and manual push. Very, very few gas mowers with same specs as this. The vast majority like this are self propelled.

This one none are currently in stock.

Toro 22" (56cm) SMARTSTOW High Wheel Push Mower (21329)
https://www.toro.com/en/homeowner/walk-behind-mowers/22-smartstow-push-mower-21329

For a battery this one below for spec range: 22", max HOC 4", and manual push. Comes with a single 60V (54V working) 6.0Ah 324Wh battery. From what I've read in reviews 324Wh seems to be adequate for my 13M SqFt. My lawn is on a slope with lots of irregular shapes and having a self propelled battery mower I believe would drain quicker than if I had a flat surface, that's why I'm looking for manual push. I think Toro says the variable electric motor current draw specs are proprietary so they don't list them. If the motor draw was known I could better estimate calculate how long 324Wh would run. So I might need more than 324Wh battery energy storage (i.e. more than one battery which ain't cheap) to cut my lawn.

Also, this one none are currently in stock.

Toro 22" (56cm) 60V MAX* Electric Battery SMARTSTOW High Wheel Push Mower (20361)
https://www.toro.com/en/homeowner/walk-behind-mowers/60v-22inch-recycler-push-mower-20361

21" and max HOC 3.75" okay, just not preferred. If I'm spending ~$300 plus on a mower my preference is to invest in a battery powered one. My current gas mower still runs so there's no immediate rush to replace it.

Some info about battery mowers, voltage, amps, and watts ...
https://todaysmower.com/cordless-battery-operated-walk-behind-mowers-2019/


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## Chris LI

I bought a bunch of the base model Toro Commercial 21's for work a few years ago (and we still buy them). I was able to convince the purse string holders that the durability would be worth the extra cost compared to the cheap junk they were buying, which would constantly be in the shop. They are simple and nearly indestructible (my guys really tend to test them). You may not need something built like a tank, but you might be interested in the max HOC of 4.5", with your TTTF/clover, more natural lawn. They're not cheap, but they are durable. It may be something to consider. The current model # is 22289. If you're interested in more info, feel free to PM me.

https://www.toro.com/heavyduty/


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> I bought a bunch of the base model Toro Commercial 21's for work a few years ago (and we still buy them). I was able to convince the purse string holders that the durability would be worth the extra cost compared to the cheap junk they were buying, which would constantly be in the shop. They are simple and nearly indestructible (my guys really tend to test them). You may not need something built like a tank, but you might be interested in the max HOC of 4.5", with your TTTF/clover, more natural lawn. They're not cheap, but they are durable. It may be something to consider. The current model # is 22289. If you're interested in more info, feel free to PM me.
> 
> https://www.toro.com/heavyduty/


I've had my eye on those for a while, too, specifically the version with the Kawasaki FJ engine. But not good for a hilly yard...too heavy to push up and down. But a bit lighter than the Honda counterpart. How do you like them? Looks like it would last a DIYer 20+ years easily. The wheels are also so much nicer than the consumer Toros...those skinny wheels on them tear up the grass sometimes.

@Powhatan, that Toro consumer model is very similar to mine, but mine doesn't have the Smartstow, is self-propelled, has the Honda engine, and doesn't have the front bumper. Same deck/handle, though. I like mine. It's either that or the Honda, or the pro models, or a few other obscure brands, or a cheaper MTD OEM model (which I'm ruling out for you, as they only go up barely 3.75" max HOC...I have one of those, too, and use it a lot. World of difference between MTD's 3.75" and Toro's 4.0" settings. Even Toro's 3.75" setting is about 0.1" higher than MTD's.). The washout port is nice to have, too. If you get it, let me know how it is with the 6.25 torque engine mowing KY-31. My push mower has a 6.75 torque engine, and the self propelled has a 6.9.


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## Chris LI

@Green

I really like them for their ability to survive abuse (dropping, mowing without the air filter, over/under filling the oil, sandy and dusty conditions, etc.). All the things that I rip my hair out, over.

Their cut quality still holds up pretty well, too, considering what my guys put these through. I was a little concerned over the fact that it was a "Toro" engine, as opposed to a Kawi, but they hold up pretty well. I was looking for a very basic mower with zone start and few bells/whistles to break, and have to fix. I deal with employees who don't have much experience with equipment, so simpler is better (don't ask). This fit the bill. One side benefit is that the numerical height adjustments are a somewhat true translation. I'm not sure if it's completely linear, but it works for my purposes. I coined a phrase, which I still use, for my 3" HOC rule. "3 is 3", which sums it up.


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## Green

@Powhatan, another good option:
https://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/walk-behind-lawn-mowers/l421p/961330033/

More powerful/durable engine than the consumer Toro models, and has the 4" HOC, but costs less than the true commercial models by Toro and Honda...if you can find it. Looks similarly durable on paper for half the cost in some cases.


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## Powhatan

Thanks @Chris LI and @Green, good info to consider for mower purchase choices.

This is the gas push mower I have now: Murray 22" with 140cc B&S 5.00 torque engine, max HOC 3.5". I bought it from Walmart about 6-7 years ago for ~$150. I do the maintenance on it and it's been a good dependable mower. I always sharpen the blade before cutting. Never have a problem cutting the KY-31. The lighter push mower seems to leave my sun/shade lawn looking better after a cut than the heavier riding mower. I'm almost 60 yr old and I get good exercise pushing the gas mower around.

Overall it's still a good running mower, but at times now when I initially pull the starter cord I feel resistance that the crankshaft hub won't turn. Subsequent pull or two are without much resistance and mower starts with slow RPM then speeds up. I've taken all external pieces apart cleaned, lubed, and re-tighten so I'm thinking something engine internal is starting to fail.


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## Green

Murray is definitely an MTD brand (which I believe is allied with Briggs and Stratton somehow), but that mower is a step below mine (no bag option and smaller engine). Good to hear the 5.0 torque engine cuts the KY-31 just fine. I know I get some clumping near the right wheels at times with mine that has the 6.75 torque engine, especially if the grass is verging on overgrown. And I walk slowly to try to prevent issues.

I think you'll enjoy getting a push mower that is a step (or 3) more higher-end, but it'll take up a bit more storage space than your current one.

You might also find Husqvarna mowers under the sister brand Jonsered, just as you can find the (lower-end currently) Toro mowers rebranded as LawnBoy.

The month of May definitely brings the best mower deals of the whole year.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> The month of May definitely brings the best mower deals of the whole year.


Yep, my digital input device  has been clicking away past several days. Either there's lots of good sales people took advantage of or the virus has slowed down production lines, I'm seeing lots of good mower models out of stock now. Toro homeowner gas mower sale ends today, but their battery mower sale still going on till mid next month (same as Stihl). Don't want to take out a payment plan just to buy a new mower. :lol: I'm just not finding what I like in 22" non-self propelled, actually I see lots more 21" than 22". Oh well, guess I may have to just get a self propelled model for what ever I get.


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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.25" with gas push mower, broadcasted Scotts GrubEx. Higher temps and thundershowers forecasted this weekend, gotta keep an eye out for fungal activity.


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> The month of May definitely brings the best mower deals of the whole year.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, my digital input device  has been clicking away past several days. Either there's lots of good sales people took advantage of or the virus has slowed down production lines, I'm seeing lots of good mower models out of stock now. Toro homeowner gas mower sale ends today, but their battery mower sale still going on till mid next month (same as Stihl). Don't want to take out a payment plan just to buy a new mower. :lol: I'm just not finding what I like in 22" non-self propelled, actually I see lots more 21" than 22". Oh well, guess I may have to just get a self propelled model for what ever I get.
Click to expand...

The 20379 (Honda engine, 22", front wheel drive) I got last May is on sale for $20 less than last year at Ace currently.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> The 20379 (Honda engine, 22", front wheel drive) I got last May is on sale for $20 less than last year at Ace currently.


Now that looks like a keeper for sure :thumbsup: It's even in stock at my local Ace Hardware. Thanks @Green :thumbup:

Edit: just bought it online.


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 20379 (Honda engine, 22", front wheel drive) I got last May is on sale for $20 less than last year at Ace currently.
> 
> 
> 
> Now that looks like a keeper for sure :thumbsup: It's even in stock at my local Ace Hardware. Thanks @Green :thumbup:
> 
> Edit: just bought it online.
Click to expand...

Wow, that was easy! Can't go wrong for $330. Basically a self-propelled Honda engine version of the other one you were looking at. Glad someone on here made use of this deal they're having at Ace. Around here at my local store, they don't stock mowers anymore...not enough space, but I was able to buy it online last year and they got it in a week or so I think. I take that back: they recently started putting battery mowers on display in the store.

Note: I found that by setting the resistance on the front wheel drive to a higher level, to allow the belt to slip, is a good compromise. It still requires some pushing, but the mower does not bounce around and mow crooked that way. It also gives the critters time to run away (like frogs). If you mow too fast, they can get chopped up...not cool.

Here are photos of mine when I got it last May: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3351&p=159795&hilit=Toro#p159795

I'm not a fan of the high rear wheels, because it takes more effort to tip the mower for turns. But most today seem to have them.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Wow, that was easy! Can't go wrong for $330. Basically a self-propelled Honda engine version of the other one you were looking at. Glad someone on here made use of this deal they're having at Ace. Around here at my local store, they don't stock mowers anymore...not enough space, but I was able to buy it online last year and they got it in a week or so I think. I take that back: they recently started putting battery mowers on display in the store.
> 
> Note: I found that by setting the resistance on the front wheel drive to a higher level, to allow the belt to slip, is a good compromise. It still requires some pushing, but the mower does not bounce around and mow crooked that way. It also gives the critters time to run away (like frogs). If you mow too fast, they can get chopped up...not cool.
> 
> Here are photos of mine when I got it last May: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3351&p=159795&hilit=Toro#p159795
> 
> I'm not a fan of the high rear wheels, because it takes more effort to tip the mower for turns. But most today seem to have them.


Yesterday was last Toro homeowner gas mower sale day and it was available so wanted to get it before price goes up. $40 bucks is $40. Isn't that what a case of hard to find toilet paper is going for these days. 

Thanks for the tip on the wheel drive adjustment. I was reading the instruction manual about that and figured I'd have to tweak it for my preference.

Nice pictures of your mower. I'll have to take some pics of my clean unused mower when I get it for the archives.

I like the high wheels, much easier to maneuver the mower with. Last gas mower I used that had all low wheels was when I was kid in the 60's cutting grass in south Texas. My dad bought it from Sears & Roebucks and I was so happy to not be struggling pushing the very old manual reel mower (similar to this) around anymore. Don't remember the gas mower manufacture, probably Snapper. Never did sharpen the blade, didn't know I had to. :lol: I do remember walking down to the local gas pump and paying .25 cents for a gallon of gas.


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## Green

Yeah, that was about the best normal deal you could get today. Definitely pays to find a good mower, too.

Wow, you have literally lived all over the country indeed.

Toro has a video on adjusting the tension, but you don't need that. It's super easy. Loosen the thing and pull the metal wire cover up or down a few clicks. Guess and check. I kept fiddling with mine the first few mows to get it right, adjusting one or two clicks. I rarely adjust it anymore. When I do, not by much. Grass height/HOC does influence the drive, though. So does moisture level. I like mine set to slow speed (not as slow as it goes, but close). If I need even slower when going downhill, I let up partially or fully on the drive bail. The system is super easy and intuitive to control.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Wow, you have literally lived all over the country indeed.


Lived on the west coast, gulf coast, east coast, great lakes region, Alaska, and Hawaii. I've traveled in all U.S. states except 4 of them. Stationed on USCG Cutters (ships) that sailed: North and South Atlantic Ocean, Gulf of Mexico, Caribbean, North, South, East and West Pacific Ocean, Bering Sea, and Arctic Sea - deep water, not shallow. and yes weird things do happen in the Bermuda Triangle. Never did get a chance to visit Antarctic. I've seen lots of plastic trash in the oceans; people have no clue how bad we are polluting and killing our planet.


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## Powhatan




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## Green

Powhatan said:


> I've seen lots of plastic trash in the oceans; people have no clue how bad we are polluting and killing our planet.


There's even more today., and the sad part is that some of it might be plastic that supposedly went through proper collection channels (e.g. recycling bins) and then got lose by accident en route to other countries or was dumped intentionally. I'm sure the majority isn't, but still. If any is, that is not good. And we barely recycle plastic today, let alone collect various types for recycling. This is one of the challenges my generation has been facing and will continue to.


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## Powhatan

A local Weather Underground station reported 93F for high today. Last significant rain was Apr 30. Might have some rain tomorrow. Some grass blades showing a little bit of a stress curl.


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## Powhatan

Broadcasted granular EcoLogic organic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer, yard smells minty fresh. Was also going to spray N-Ext RGS & Air-8 but air temps are getting too hot; I'll have to wait for cooler temps later this fall to spray again.

Three days later without rain or irrigation and grass needs another cut. Rain is forecasted for everyday next week. Grass is going to be a tall jungle before it dries out for a cut.


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## Powhatan

KY-31 seed flowering now, same time as last year.


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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.25". Hand-pulled some hop clover weeds. Lots of rain coming this week.


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## Chris LI

The last photo looks really dark and uniform. :thumbup:


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## Powhatan

Noticed some minor helminthosporium fungal disease. The black spots are the initial disease visual. This disease appeared last year during this same time with similar current cool night/warm day air temps. Last year I did not put down a fungicide, only lowered HOC from 3.5" to 3.25" to allow more airflow. If I remember correctly, I noticed the disease randomly in the lawn for a couple of months as the grass grew out of it. In mid-Jun when air temps were hotter and humidity higher, I noticed some brown patch disease and that's when I sprayed neem oil a couple of times which kept the brown patch from spreading.


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## Powhatan

Chris LI said:


> The last photo looks really dark and uniform. :thumbup:


I think DLF enhances their KY-31 variety which makes it a little darker, plus I've got a NoMix helping to keep overall a shade darker. Maybe one day I'll put a roller on my new Toro.


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## Green

Now you make me want DLF KY-31, but who knows what brand I'll be able to find, if any (for family member low input yard use).

At least you have the mower and are getting rain. We got a lot of rain last week. All of a sudden yesterday, the forecast for this week changed from an all-wheek rain to mostly clear, due to blocking from the negative phase of the North Atlantic Oscillation.

My clover is going crazy in the low input area. It almost seems too thick compared to the grass.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Now you make me want DLF KY-31, but who knows what brand I'll be able to find, if any (for family member low input yard use).
> 
> At least you have the mower and are getting rain. We got a lot of rain last week. All of a sudden yesterday, the forecast for this week changed from an all-wheek rain to mostly clear, due to blocking from the negative phase of the North Atlantic Oscillation.
> 
> My clover is going crazy in the low input area. It almost seems too thick compared to the grass.


I gotta see the seed tag before buying to know what I'm getting in to. I think I mentioned I buy the DLF from Tractor Supply. Other local stores have KY-31 Pennington and some other brands which have a lot more weed seeds than DLF (coated). The DLF website is not very informative about distributors.

Some of the clover got to be really thick in my lawn, that stuff spreads a lot. I sprayed a small helping of "Roundup For (Northern) Lawns Ready-to-Spray" a couple of times in select areas to thin down the clover.


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## Powhatan

Sun popped out for a couple hours in between overcast & rain. I picked up several small fallen branches off the lawn. Helminthosporium fungal disease still present but does not appear to be worsening.

Here's the start of fungal disease of concern, the darker areas. I believe I remember seeing darker blades last year right before brown patch disease was evident. I'll have to mix up some neem oil and spray this area.


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## Powhatan

Mixed 1 oz neem oil concentrate / GL water and sprayed small bushes for insects and dark grass areas for fungal disease. Noticed some white mycelium growing in the dark disease areas.


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## Powhatan

Sprayed Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control at 13% mix rate on gravel driveway weeds. Assembled new Toro 22" push mower. Little to no rain forecasted next couple of days, so I'll let the grass dry before mowing.


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## Powhatan

With recent rains turning into a jungle. That clover do spread.


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## Powhatan

Grass grew to 5.5"+ in height. Mulch mowed with older push mower at max HOC 3.5" setting.


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## Powhatan

Sprayed N-Ext RGS & Air-8.


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## Powhatan

Pruned encore azalea plants.

Grass grew ~2" in the last three days without rain. Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.25". Rain is forecasted all remainder this week.


----------



## Powhatan




----------



## Powhatan

I noticed this in the gravel road ditch. Appears to be a hairy crabgrass with seed heads emerging.


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## Powhatan

Recent warmer day & night temperatures with high moisture. I checked the lawn this morning for fungal disease, specifically white mycelium and dark grass areas for brown patch development. I found a couple small dark grass areas which are not located in same area that I treated before and I noticed small amount of mycelium in another area. Scattered rain is forecasted today and tomorrow. I'll look for for an opportunity to spot spray neem oil this week.

Mycelium and some fungal disease present. Even the clover gets fungal disease.


----------



## g-man

@Powhatan are you sure it is BP? It looks like Pythium blight. Does it feel slimy?


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## Powhatan

@g-man possible it could be pythium blight. The blades feel more damp than slimy to me. I'm suspecting brown patch because I remember seeing similar dark blade areas last year before brown patch appeared.

I just took this pic a few minutes ago. Here's another patch with mycelium and some dark grass. A KY-31 blade to the right has a fungal lesion - brown patch or pythium blight, maybe both?


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## Powhatan

Had a break from the rain this morning, the sun came out. The back and side yards have all over in random areas small white mycelium/mold clumps. I'm not sure exactly which they are or which fungal disease they're most related to.





After a couple hours of sun, most of the white fluff stuff is gone, but I noticed this white stain looking residue on the grass blades. I'm sure there's more than one fungal disease at work here ... fun, fun trying to figure it out. The grass needs to dry some more before I can spray neem oil.


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## DiabeticKripple

could be powdery mildew forming there


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## Powhatan

The plant disease triangle came together.


Brown patch, Pythium blight, and Powdery mildew, possibly other?

dampness, warmer temps, low air movement, shade

susceptible grass hosts

These diseases are occurring in the shadier back and side yards, I haven't noticed them in the front yard.

Starting Sunday no rain forecasted. I'll mow to lower HOC 3" and bag clippings, spray neem oil, and prune some lower tree branches.


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## Powhatan

Grass grew 5"+ height, set HOC to 3.5" to stay within 1/3 cut. Bag mowed with the new Toro push mower, first time using it. I had to set the self propel down a notch from factory setting for my walk preference.

Mixed 2.5 TSP neem oil concentrate / GL water and sprayed small bushes for insects and brown grass areas for fungal disease. The brown grass fungal areas to me look like brown patch. There's disease patches in random areas all over the yard, more so in the back and side yards, but I also noticed a few in the front.


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## Powhatan

Air temps going up to mid 90sF today and tomorrow with rain forecasted. Grass has grown to 4"+ height. I would bag mow and cut lower to HOC 3" or 3.25" to allow more air flow, but with the higher temps on the way I don't want to stress the grass anymore right now. I'll bag mow again later in the week.

I noticed some small mycelium white puffs appearing randomly all over the lawn again. I mixed 2.5 TSP neem oil concentrate / GL water and sprayed small bushes for insects and grass areas for fungal disease.

I plan to broadcast Safer Brand Lawn Restore organic slow release fertilizer and granular EcoLogic organic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer mid month.


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## Powhatan

96F high today, after 10:15 PM it's 83F with 84% humidity - lovely disease weather. Grass is decent green overall with some brown areas.


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## Green

Almost 10 degrees higher where you are than here today; it's 87 right now. Humidity dropped here during the day; it's only 37% with a 57 dewpoint right now at 4:30PM. Nice weather.


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## Powhatan

Local Weather Underground station recorded 100F high today. Still have a chance of early evening thundershowers.

Here's the largest brown patch area. Sprayed neem oil twice this week; it will probably need a spray or two more before the grass grows out.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Almost 10 degrees higher where you are than here today; it's 87 right now. Humidity dropped here during the day; it's only 37% with a 57 dewpoint right now at 4:30PM. Nice weather.


Yep, you got some nice weather. It's suppose to be back down to the lower 80s for us next week. woo hoo


----------



## Powhatan

Here's an adult Luna Moth. These adult moths only live for 7 to 10 days and are nocturnal so it is rare to see them during the day. The adults do not have digestive systems; their sole purpose is to reproduce.


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## Powhatan

Green grass.


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## Powhatan

Several thunderstorms rolled through last night, rainfall ~0.80". The previous significant rainfall >1.00" was on Apr 13.

Lawn turning into a jungle again. Next five days will be in 80sF and sunny. Since there's still brown patch disease areas that I'm treating with neem oil, I'll bag mow @ HOC 4" when the grass dries, then a few days later bag mow again lower HOC 3.50" or 3.25".


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## Powhatan

Bag mowed. Grass grew to 5"+ height, set HOC to 3.25" close within 1/3 cut. Scattered thunderstorms forecasted this evening.


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## Powhatan

Put down two 4"x8"x16" solid concrete blocks level with the ground (a kind of solid french drain) where roof rain runoff is digging into the ground when it falls and erodes the soil.


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## Powhatan

No white mycelium puffs or noticeable expanding brown patches on the lawn this morning. All looks mostly green, but there are some heat/dry stress areas. I'll spot spray neem oil for fungus as needed as long as it's not >90F hot for the day, don't want to fry the grass.

Weather 10 day and monthly average forecast is mid 80sF to 90sF with daily 20% scattered thunderstorm chance - typical summer season pattern.

Broadcasted 50# Safer Brand Lawn Restore 9-0-2 low nitrogen slow release organic fertilizer. The organics will take 2 to 3 weeks for the biology start feeding which will slowly feed the soil/grass for the next ~2 months.


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## Pezking7p

I love your macro photos.


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## Powhatan

Thanks @Pezking7p. I recently bought a new iPhone with a better camera than my old phone. I'm trying to be a little creative when I take pics.


----------



## Powhatan




----------



## Powhatan

June 2020 - KY-31/NoMix/Clover


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## Green

In my opinion (and I think maybe illustrated causally in your 2019 vs. 2020 photos or maybe 2018 vs 2020...if you dig them up) clover increases the drought tolerance of a stand of grass (as long as it's not so thick that it's suffocating/shading it out). I've even noticed that Poa Trivialis seems to grow really well where there's clover. And incidentally, the herbicide that kills clover, Triclopyr, seems to hurt Triv pretty badly at times. The clover patches in the front and on the side I killed this year had Triv in them in some cases, that became evident after the clover started wilting from the herbicide. And after the clover was knocked down and two apps were applied, the Triv was hurting, too. I find that in the Summer, the clover thins out, but the grass mixed with it retains a much better quality than adjacent grass. If that were only a Nitrogen thing, fertilizer would do the same, but it seems to be something else.


----------



## Powhatan

Green said:


> In my opinion (and I think maybe illustrated causally in your 2019 vs. 2020 photos or maybe 2018 vs 2020...if you dig them up) clover increases the drought tolerance of a stand of grass (as long as it's not so thick that it's suffocating/shading it out). ...


I added the 2018 pic to the group; it looked similar to 2019 that's why I didn't originally post it. All pics were taken early June.

The lawn is non-irrigated. By late June when it's hotter and dryer, the grass turns mostly brown and goes dormant in the front yard. Grass greens up again when rains return but there's an amount that dies out. By looking at my Aug pics when the grass is greener again I estimate ~25% dies out. It will be interesting to see what happens this year with the clover mixed in.


----------



## Powhatan

Had thundershowers yesterday evening and more rain is forecasted next week. The lawn was dry enough by noon today so decided to mulch mow @ HOC 3.25".


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## Powhatan

Mowed the weeds (native plants) in the gravel road ditch.

Put down four more 4"x8"x16" solid concrete blocks where roof rain runoff is falling eroding the soil.


----------



## Powhatan

Broadcasted 30# granular EcoLogic organic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer.


----------



## Pezking7p

Looks really nice after the mow on Friday!


----------



## Powhatan

Pezking7p said:


> Looks really nice after the mow on Friday!


Thanks. Our area so far has had decent weather this late spring. Later this month will probably be hotter and dryer and I'm sure the grass will start to brown and thin out. Throughout the spring I applied RGS/Air-8 along with biochar and humic hoping to improve the soil to promote healthier grass longevity during stress.


----------



## Powhatan

Rain all this past week and more rain with higher temps forecasted next week. Sun popped out for about an hour this morning and I walked the lawn. Grass height is 6"+ with random white mycelium puffs & dark grass disease areas forming again. With rain chance next several days, I'll just have to watch for a somewhat dry day and bag mow at highest setting HOC 4". Then spray neem oil when grass is dry first chance I see.

True to their name, some june bugs are flying around the lawn edge in the front yard. Good thing I applied GrubEx last month. :fight:

Edit: Sun popped out for a few hours and dried the grass tops so I went ahead and bag mowed. That will increase airflow to help dry the lower grass canopy soil surface to hopefully reduce disease spread.


----------



## Powhatan

Sprayed Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control at 13% mix rate on lawn edge & gravel driveway weeds.

Sprayed neem oil concentrate at 2 oz mix rate on dark grass fungal disease areas & small bush insects.


----------



## Powhatan

95F air temp with 70% humidity before noon today, soil temp 83F in shadier spot and 92F in dry sunnier spot. Thunderstorms forecasted later this afternoon. Grass height is 5"+, mostly green with random browning areas (brown patch and heat stress). Bag mowed @ HOC 3.25". Spot checking it appears the KY-31 is holding on to green color longer. Typically late Jun to early Jul is when grass dormancy becomes evident. The new Toro mower blade needs some sharpening.


----------



## Powhatan

Mostly green with some heat stress brown starting to mixed in.


----------



## Powhatan

Purchased a Toro 22" mower blade to alternate with the blade that came with the new Toro mower. I manually sharpen push mower blades with a hand file typically every other mow.

No white puff mycelium noticed this morning. I'll sprayed neem oil concentrate at 2 oz mix rate again on the brown patch disease areas later this morning once the morning dew dries. When I spray neem oil I'm not trying to "cure" per se, but rather "contain" the disease pathogen from spreading further so the grass can hopefully grow out of the diseased blades.



> _Mode of Action of Oils
> 
> ... When used against plant pathogens, oils may smother fungal growth and reduce spore germination on treated surfaces. They are mostly fungistatic, stopping fungal growth rather than killing the pathogens. ..._
> 
> https://agrilifeextension.tamu.edu/library/farming/using-oils-as-pesticides/


----------



## Powhatan

Deer and rabbits been eating the grass & clover during the evening hours. Grass height is 5"+, a bit more heat stress areas are appearing. Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.25".

This appears to be a midland painted turtle. I almost ran over it while mowing the front yard, I moved it out of the way.


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## Powhatan

Sunny 93F+ with 87% humidity. Having friends over for a cookout today. :friends: :beer:


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## Powhatan

Soil temp @ 2" depth 85F in shadier and 90F in sunnier spots. Last time using any irrigation was April 21. Grass has grown almost an inch since Friday's cut, next time I mow I'll raise HOC to 3.50", July is typically the hottest month. The various NoMix & clover seem to be doing well overall. There are a few brown patch spots but they don't appear to be active, seems the neem oil helped. Areas closer to the house that receive majority sun are looking stressed and are showing dormant brown increase.

Eastern box turtle.


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## Powhatan

Sprayed neem oil concentrate at higher 3 oz mix rate on some grass disease areas & small bush insects. YTD fungicide expense $7.50. Non-irrigated grass performing okay to rainfall chance deep and infrequent watering. Trimmed up low hanging tree branches to allow more sunlight and airflow.


----------



## Powhatan

97F high today, last significant >0.50" rainfall was Jun 16. Deep and infrequent irrigation a.k.a. rainfall


----------



## Powhatan

Sun popped out this morning before this afternoon's forecasted thunderstorms. Grass height is 5"+ again so decided to mulch mow @ higher HOC 3.50".


----------



## Powhatan




----------



## Powhatan

Broadcasted 80# alfalfa pellets for a light slow release organic grass & soil feeding.


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## Powhatan

Local Weather Underground station reporting 102F high today. Checking soil temps and moisture.

Found this in the shadier area. I believe its poa trivialis with a seed head. Pulled up easy. It has creases on the backside of the leaf. I'm surprised it's this green being this hot.


----------



## Green

Yup...it can survive in the shade without dormancy, believe it or not...


----------



## Powhatan

Green said:


> Yup...it can survive in the shade without dormancy, believe it or not...


We'll that sux  but thanks for the info Green :thumbup:


----------



## Powhatan




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## Powhatan




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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some crabgrass, nut sedge, dog fennel, ragweed, and lespedeza weeds. Grass height is 5"+, mulch mowed @ HOC 3.50". 97F today, KY-31 still holding on to some green with various brown dormancy mixed in.


----------



## Powhatan

Sprayed neem oil concentrate at 3 oz mix rate on some grass mycelium disease areas & small bush insects.


----------



## Powhatan

Sprayed Roundup for Northern Lawns (includes sulfentrazone) on nutsedge area of the lawn.


----------



## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some more crabgrass. I'm expanding my front yard lawn into a ~500 sqft natural area and have been removing several different types of weeds. I didn't put down preM in this area this past spring but will do that starting this fall and next spring. The crabgrass growing in the gravel road ditch is showing seed heads now. I try to mow that area as the weeds produce seed heads.

Moved some lawn soil from high to low spots.

Non-irrigated lawn is doing very well this summer compared to last year staying greener longer; it's not country club pretty but it's healthy. Still have decent soil moisture @ ~4" depth in most areas.


----------



## Powhatan

I had to dig up and back fill a low sandy/clay spot in the front yard. Organics - Doc ain't got nut'n on me.


----------



## Chris LI

^+1
:nod:


----------



## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some dog fennel and marestail weeds. Also pulled some poa trivialis clumps that had seed heads.

Sprayed some more Roundup for Northern Lawns (includes sulfentrazone) on nutsedge area.

Most of the lawn needs a cut but it's under stress right now so I'll wait till after tomorrow's forecasted thundershowers. A few KY-31 and PRG have seed heads.

Been in the mid to high 90s with a few 100s past two weeks. Last significant >0.50" rain was on Jul 1. Grass showing stress and partial dormancy. Sunniest and driest part of the front lawn 92F at 2" depth - yikes.


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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.50". Lawn mostly green but looking summer rough with brown dormancy areas and some brown patch. Also mowed the weeds in the gravel road ditch.

The Roundup for Northern Lawns (includes sulfentrazone) I've sprayed twice on nutsedge areas doesn't seem to be doing anything on the nutsedge, probably need a stronger sulfentrazone product.


----------



## Powhatan

Sprayed neem oil concentrate at 3 oz mix rate on small bushes as an insecticide.

Used a new bottle of Roundup for Northern Lawns RTS (includes sulfentrazone) and sprayed on nutsedge areas. If that doesn't work I'll use ORTHO Nutsedge Killer RTS with higher 1.40% Sulfentrazone.

Lawn a little greener after receiving 0.05" rain on Monday.


----------



## Powhatan

Nutsedge looking yellow with some brown this morning, might not need the stronger ORTHO spray.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some orchardgrass. After three weekly app sprays of Roundup for Northern Lawns RTS (includes sulfentrazone) the nutsedge are wilting away.

98F high so far today, tomorrow and Monday suppose to be near or above 100F. Still have 2 months of hot summer to go ...

Edit: Local Weather Underground station reporting 108F hit high today.


----------



## Powhatan

> Turfgrass Hotline SE w/ Lee Butler, Turfgrass Diagnostic Lab Mgr, NC State -
> 
> In this episode of Turfgrass Hotline, Frank Rossi and Lee Butler chat about a warm, wet start to the season during the COVID lockdown, and how both warm- and cool-season grasses struggle with rooting issues from nematodes to take-all! A lively discussion about Asco-whatta? Leaf spot and brown patch in tall fescue. It's a great day in the Carolinas! Recorded June 23, 2020.
> 
> https://www.blogtalkradio.com/turfnet/2020/07/02/turfgrass-hotline-se-w-lee-butler-turfgrass-diagnostic-lab-mgr-nc-state
> 
> At 14:03 Lee Butler says _"KY-31 one of the best brown batch tolerant fescues compared to turf types, completely different canopy structure"_


I suspect "different canopy structure" to mean better air movement through the bigger wider KY-31 clump surface area than the smaller dense TTTF clump.

The NTEP ratings for Brown Patch (warm) typically place KY-31 in the middle to lower 1/3 of the list, but factor in the category LSD value and KY-31 jumps up to a mean rating number very close to the top performers.

I guess Lee Butler is seeing something under the microscope that NTEP field evaluators are not privy to?

My KY-31 does get BP, not denying that. Maybe not has much as TTTF as a whole. I'll have to compare next time I'm looking for active BP.


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## Green

@Powhatan, I took delivery of a small quantity of KY-31 that I'm looking forward to planting for some minor reseeding in my late grandfather's yard. I think I mentioned it, but the seed is 0/0 and from Oregon. I paid a premium per lb, but didn't need much.

I also have on order an older TTTF cultivar to use blended with it, one called "Sitka". It looks (from the ratings the tech sheet pulled from Rutgers testing) like it's a bIt lighter green and better in heat than current TTTF (presumably intermediate in texture). I plan to use this one at home as well if I need to overseed the 2018 TTTF/HBG reseed. I had been looking for something that wasn't as dark green for this and the above application.


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## Powhatan

Great deal @Green getting KY-31 with 0/0 weeds.

Mid-year on I tend to start looking at the DLF KY-31 stock at TSC stores in my area to see what weed % they have. I was at a store a couple of weeks ago and the coated KY-31 had low weed % but I wasn't ready to buy yet being many months away from next Feb's dormant overseed. I've noticed test and sell by dates are ~9 months apart.


----------



## Powhatan

105F for high today. Tomorrow forecasted to be 1 or 2 degrees hotter, if you can even tell a difference.

Hand-pulled some crabgrass, dog fennel, marestail, ragweed, and orchardgrass weeds.


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## Powhatan

Got up to 108F today and it sure felt like it.

Hand-pulled some crabgrass and orchardgrass weeds.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some crabgrass, orchardgrass, and one poa trivialis clump that had seed heads. Also pulled some Bermuda grass. The gravel road ditch has bermuda grass so I'm guessing either seeds or a node runner made it's way into the lawn via air or machinery.

Grass height up to 4" to 6", mulch mowed @ HOC 3.50". Thunderstorms forecasted this afternoon and later in the week, decided to mow to allow more airflow to help minimize disease development.

Broadcasted 30# granular EcoLogic organic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer.


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## Powhatan

Yikes - got to be 110F today recorded from a local Weather Underground station.

The afternoon thundershower cells are popping up and I can hear thunder in the distance. I hope we get some needed rain.

Grass is really feeling the stress. The NoMix are checking out but most of the KY-31 doing okay. This budget grass non-irrigated lawn will green back up when rains return, does not need weekly irrigation like low cut pretty grass.


----------



## Powhatan

Received 0.16" rain last night. I walked the lawn this morning and did not see any mycelium, maybe yesterday's mow helped.


----------



## Powhatan

I found this while de-weeding the azalea bed. With that long rhizome I'm gonna say this is KBG.


----------



## Green

You would be right. But I've never seen rhizomes like that. Are those branched?


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## Powhatan

Plants and rhizome all together in a football upright. That tap root rhizome ~equal distant right in the middle is curious. Makes you wonder if that placement was random or by genetic code for optimal shared intake of nutrients for both plants.


----------



## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some crabgrass, orchardgrass, and one poa trivialis clump that had seed heads.

Grass height up to 5"+, bag mowed @ HOC 3.50" with sharpened blade. Received 0.27" rain yesterday evening from thunderstorms. Higher heat temperatures and more rain forecasted this weekend and early next week, decided to bag mow to allow more airflow and capture potential pathogen disease spore clippings to help minimize disease development.


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## Powhatan

Received 0.49" rain last night. One local weather station recorded 98F and another station recorded 106F for a high today.

Hand-pulled some orchardgrass and dog fennel weeds.

Been eyeing the STX DIY 4-0-25 SOP 4%Fe 45 lb. for stress potassium, but I think I'll go with LESCO Fertilizer 0-0-45 SOP 1.2%Fe 50 lb. and put down 1/2 bag rate about 1.5 month apart. The LESCO product is cheaper $ for me and I don't need nitrogen.


----------



## Powhatan

Sprayed non-selective Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control at 13% mix rate on lawn border crabgrass and other weeds. Lots of seedheads on crabgrass.

Edit: 4+ hours later crabgrass checking out.


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## Powhatan




----------



## Powhatan

Returned the John Deere 50# rotary spreader to Lowe's, the quality build was seriously lacking. Purchased a LESCO 80# rotary spreader from SiteOne, it was the lowest cost I found for a new one, excellent quality build and preassembled.

Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.50". Broadcasted 54# Jonathan Green Love Your Soil and 25# LESCO 0-0-45 PCSOP, forecasted rains will water in.


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## Powhatan




----------



## Powhatan

Green grass.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled several small annual sedges, then sprayed Ortho Nutsedge Killer for Lawns (R-T-S) in that area.

Not too much damage from the tropical storm that went directly over the house. A few rain puddling low spots.

One tree fell due to high winds. Looks like some roots were already dead.


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## Mark B

This is a cool journal, thanks for updating :thumbup:


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## Powhatan

Mark B said:


> This is a cool journal, thanks for updating :thumbup:


Thanks for reading along. cheers


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## Powhatan

Bagged mowed @ HOC 3.50" to catch potential disease blades and allow more airflow to dry out soil.

Sorry about the pic quality, my phone zoom doesn't take a good color pic.


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## Powhatan

Lots of precipitation received this week and more forecasted with the daily afternoon thunderstorms. Noticed a couple of dark grass disease areas appearing again. I'll sharpen my mower blade, bag mow at lower HOC 3.25" to collect disease clippings and allow more airflow, and spot spray with neem oil. Most of the lawn looks okay, ground feeling almost spongy due to rains.


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## Powhatan

Grass and soil drying out fairly well. Those dark grass areas don't seem to be getting larger into something more disease active, but did notice in random areas some rust disease pustules forming. I'll give the grass a light feeding and broadcast 25# Nutrients Plus Screamin' Green 16-2-3 @ 1/2 bag rate which will provide ~0.30#N/M includes AMS, urea, and slow release organics. Air temps forecasted to be in mid-80sF with daily chance afternoon thunderstorms.


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## Powhatan

I have a sunny dry compacted sandy area around an oak tree in the front yard that has been the most difficult to get grass to establish and flourish. Since moving into the house four years ago I've amended the area with various soil improvement products, tree leaf/grass mulch, and mechanical & liquid Air-8 aeration, but the sand still feels compacted.

This past spring I included white clover in this area and it has been doing okay without irrigation even with the grass thinning out during stressful summer. Next month I plan to sow red & white clover in this area as a cover crop for the next few years to hopefully improve the soil quality.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some crabgrass, dog fennel, and poa trivialis weeds.

Grass has grown ~2.5" since Friday's mow at 3.25". Noticed some mycelium on the soil surface, must be digesting the fert organics.


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## Powhatan

Swamp chestnut oak trees are dropping some (stress?) leaves and acorns. The White oak trees aren't dropping yet.

Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.25". High chance of daily thunderstorms for rest of this week.


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## Powhatan




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## Powhatan

Lots of rain past few days and more to come. Sun came out for a few hours this afternoon. Grass definitely needs another cut, but the ground is too spongy. Next dry days are this Monday and Tuesday.


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## Powhatan

Received ~4" rain accumulation past week. I walked the lawn this morning: lots of little mushrooms, tall wet grass, saturated ground, did not notice mycelium forming.

Low chance of rain today and tomorrow, hopefully tomorrow the ground and grass will be dry enough to mow. I'll sharpen the blade and probably set HOC to 4" highest notch and bag mow to catch potential disease clippings. More rain forecasted later in the week.

Need to broadcast some more EcoLogic organic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer and remaining LESCO 0-0-45 PCSOP by end of month. Also, in the next few weeks sow red & white clover with some TTTF mixed seed around the oak tree in the front yard ~500 SqFt sandy area, I'll setup a hose sprinkler and timer. Next year late winter I'll dormant overseed the remaining areas of the lawn.

Edit: Lawn was dry enough in the afternoon to bag mow @ HOC 3.75".


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled three large obvious poa trivialis patches In the front yard, lime green color and pulls up easy like spaghetti.


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## Powhatan

Noticed a couple mycelium and dark grass disease areas this morning, I'll spot spray neem oil later in the day once morning dew dries. Then a few days later mow lower HOC back down to 3.25" to allow more airflow.


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## Powhatan

High chance of daily thunderstorms rest of week, decided to broadcast 30# granular EcoLogic organic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer and remaining 25# LESCO 0-0-45 PCSOP, forecasted rains will water in.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled more poa trvialis spaghetti patches. Shoved some lawn soil from high to low spots.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some dog fennel, orchardgrass, crabgrass, and poa trivialis spaghetti patches. With recent several days of wet weather the poa triv is perking up and spreading.

Mulch mowed at lower HOC 3.25" to allow more airflow.


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## Powhatan

I did a 6" screwdriver test and dug up small spots around the front yard oak tree compacted sand surface area. The spots that the screwdriver went down easily had soft loam below the sand surface. The other spots that the screwdriver could not penetrate below ~2" hard surface had compacted clay.

Air temps forecasted to be cooler starting mid next week so decided to broadcast the cover crop mix around the oak tree. Soil temp 82F. Broadcasted using Scotts Whirl Hand-Powered Spreader over ~750 SqFt: 4 oz strawberry clover, 4 oz white clover, 32 oz TTTF, and 32 oz starter fertilizer. All coated seed. I held some seed back for a reserve fix. Clover seed is tiny and a small amount goes a long way. Setup a hose sprinkler and timer.

I'm hoping this cover crop mix will loosen the soil and improve the soil quality.


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## Powhatan

Clover emergence two days post seed down.


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## Powhatan

Noticed some TTTF decided to emerge this evening.

Now just have to keep up watering so the remaining clover and TTTF emerge. Got some more 90s this week then drops to cooler 80s.


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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.25".

Various areas need an overseed to fill in from summer stress. I'll do that next Feb with a late winter dormant overseed.


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## elgrow

Love all the posts and the yard looks great!

Is there a reason you are doing a dormant February seed vs a fall overseed for that area? Just curious for the reasoning


----------



## Powhatan

Thanks @elgrow

I don't have installed irrigation and the few hoses/sprinkers I sometimes put out barely gives me 1/2 lawn coverage.

I've tried Fall overseeding with less success. My lawn has many many surrounding trees with zillons of leaves that blocks direct low angle Fall sunlight, moisture is retained longer on the soil surface when I do irrigate which encourages disease. I'm sure if I had a lot less trees then Fall would be ideal.

The vast majority of my lawn grass has been sowed using late Winter dormant seeding. There's less leaves on the trees and that allows more low angle Spring sunlight. I don't have to irrigate cause we usually receive enough snow melt & rain to moisten the soil and grass seeds. By the time hot summer arrives, most of the roots are mostly establish to handle a fair amount of heat & drought. I'm sure there's a % of new grass that doesn't make it, but that's true of everything in living nature.

Oh, I use mostly KY-31 mixed with NoMix cause it handles heat & drought better. I'm not chasing the perfect lawn so the KY-31 works for me in my situation, but that's not what the typical urban lawn would use.

p.s. Forgot to mention. The deer and rabbits eat my grass and clover late in the year and they like new tender grass. That's another reason I sow early in the year.


----------



## g-man

^ +1 and there are multiple studies that show it is a very effective seeding approach. For large areas without irrigation, I think it is a great system.


----------



## elgrow

Thanks for the explanation, and that seems to make sense. I think I am pretty close to where you are if your username has anything to do with your location and feel like I noticed some of those side effects of leaves and low sun in the late fall into winter. I was contemplating doing a dormant/early spring seeding this next year and may keep it in the back pocket seeing how the fall overseed fairs through the winter.

Really appreciate the explanation, and keep up the good work.


----------



## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some annual sedges and a couple common bermuda starters nimblewill. The bermuda starters nimblewill were just a few feet from a gutter downspout, could be weed seeds from the gravel road made their way up to the house roof and rains flushed them down the spout.

Noticed some more rust disease. I'll do another light feeding and broadcast 25# Nutrients Plus Screamin' Green 16-2-3 before rains this Saturday.

Edit: What I thought to be bermuda starters I now believe to be nimblewill.


----------



## Powhatan

Hand-pulled lots of little annual sedges in the gravel driveway. Next spring gotta remember to put some preM on the driveway.

High temp for today 98F, tomorrow cools down to the 80s and rain on Saturday. Today's soil temp is 90F. In the area I seeded I've been timer watering three times a day and sometimes extra hand watering cause the water evaporates/drains so quickly with the sand.

Lots of clover emergence, but so so with TTTF emergence. I'm guessing the hot 90F soil temp is on the high side for the TTTF germination, that's why Virginia Tech recommends Sep & Oct seeding window for cool season grass in eastern Virginia.


----------



## Powhatan

Hand-pulled a few more poa trivialis spaghetti patches, orchardgrass, crabgrass, and annual sedges.

The cover crop mix seedlings appear to have have made it though last week's 90s air temps. I think I'll wait another week to see if I need to broadcast some reserve seed.


----------



## Powhatan

Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.50".


----------



## Green

@Powhatan, did you reseed right after using that Miramichi grass killer? And it was ammonium nonanoate, right? I have Ortho Groundclear Weed and Grass Killer, and the label says nothing about reseeding or waiting. I want to use it as the final kill, because it kills moss. I did find something online that leads me to believe I can reseed soon after. Your thoughts?


----------



## Powhatan

Green said:


> @Powhatan, did you reseed right after using that Miramichi grass killer? And it was ammonium nonanoate, right? I have Ortho Groundclear Weed and Grass Killer, and the label says nothing about reseeding or waiting. I want to use it as the final kill, because it kills moss. I did find something online that leads me to believe I can reseed soon after. Your thoughts?


@Green I broadcasted grass seed the next day after using the Mirimichi weed & grass killer. I don't believe it negatively affected any grass seed germination. Yes, the active ingredient is ammonium nonanoate. I started using it when I saw Pete @ GCI use it. It also kills moss. I like using it as a good general purpose non-selective weed & grass killer.

Here's part of the label:

"Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control does not migrate through the soil and is not translocated in plants. ... Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control does not provide any residual weed control in soil to affect germinating weed seeds."

https://mirimichigreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/WC-Concentrate-ChemBlend-041719.pdf


----------



## Powhatan

One side of the cover crop mix area is not filling in very well so decided to broadcast some reserve seed: 2 oz strawberry clover and 2 oz white clover.

Hand-pulled several small annual sedges. They blend in very well with the surrounding grass turf. I notice them cause they seem to be growing only in a few small isolated areas in the lawn.


----------



## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some more small annual sedges. Rust disease spots forming again, looks like it's mostly on the PRG. Turf is ready for more feeding. Daytime air temps forecasted to be 80s/70s next 10 days.

Current soil temp 79F @ 2" depth; it will be lower to 70F by end of month and I'll need to broadcast fall preM by then.

I plan to apply the following within the next two weeks:


160# LESCO CarbonPro-G soil improver.

50# LESCO Pendimethalin preM 0-0-7.

50# Nutrients Plus Screamin' Green 16-2-3 fertilizer.


----------



## Powhatan

12 days post seed down, clover and TTTF are tillering in the cover crop mix around the oak tree area.


----------



## Green

Powhatan said:


> Hand-pulled some more small annual sedges. Rust disease spots forming again, looks like it's mostly on the PRG. Turf is ready for more feeding. Daytime air temps forecasted to be 80s/70s next 10 days.
> 
> Current soil temp 79F @ 2" depth; it will be lower to 70F by end of month and I'll need to broadcast fall preM by then.
> 
> I plan to apply the following within the next two weeks:
> 
> 
> 160# LESCO CarbonPro-G soil improver.
> 
> 50# LESCO Pendimethalin preM 0-0-7.
> 
> 50# Nutrients Plus Screamin' Green 16-2-3 fertilizer.


Thanks for the herbicide info.

Keep in mind, the Pendi is short-lived at the app rates and AI that Scotts uses. Depending on the rate and goal, you may or will need several apps. Also, Greendoc explained that only low and medium rates should be used...it's too harsh on roots at very high rates. But it is often better against broadleaf weeds than other Pre-Ms, even Prodiamine. Is that why you're using it?


----------



## Powhatan

Green said:


> Thanks for the herbicide info.
> 
> Keep in mind, the Pendi is short-lived at the app rates and AI that Scotts uses. Depending on the rate and goal, you may or will need several apps. Also, Greendoc explained that only low and medium rates should be used...it's too harsh on roots at very high rates. But it is often better against broadleaf weeds than other Pre-Ms, even Prodiamine. Is that why you're using it?


I'm using the 50# LESCO Pendimethalin preM 0-0-7 this fall cause it was available at the time I also bought the 50# LESCO Dithiopyr preM 19-0-7 from Home Depot. The 50# Pendimethalin says it covers 12.5M @ 4#/M. I plan to put it on a larger area that has mature roots and some natural areas I've been fallowing so the app rate will be lower ~3.5#/M. The primary weed I'm targeting is poa annua. I would have done a fall split app, but I need to make sure there's no residual preM when I dormant overseed early next year. My soil is very sandy so I suspect there'll be more leaching than residual.

Next year I'll use SiteOne products: 50# LESCO Dimension (Dithiopyr) preM 0-0-7 for spring and 50# LESCO Stonewall (Prodiamine) preM 0-0-7 for fall. Both of those are ~half price for a 50# bag than the Home Depot LESCO products.


----------



## Green

The Lesco is 0.86 if memory serves, correct? If so, it may last under 2 months at the 3.5 lb rate. That's lower than the Scotts app rate recommended on the bag that lasts 2 months, taking the two AI percentages into account. In other words, you'll have to follow up with more Pendi or some Dimension. 4 lbs should last 2 months. Of course, it all depends when you're applying. Where I am, the time is now, or even last week.


----------



## Powhatan

Green said:


> The Lesco is 0.86 if memory serves, correct? If so, it may last under 2 months at the 3.5 lb rate. That's lower than the Scotts app rate recommended on the bag that lasts 2 months, taking the two AI percentages into account. In other words, you'll have to follow up with more Pendi or some Dimension. 4 lbs should last 2 months. Of course, it all depends when you're applying. Where I am, the time is now, or even last week.


Good info.

Yes, the LESCO label says 0.86% AI.

Lowe's has 10# bags of Sta-Green Prodiamine that says covers 5M up to 6 months. I can't see the label online so the 5M must be at a low rate while up to 6 months is the high rate for lower area M. Since the Pendimethalin lasts ~2 months I need another ~2 month coverage. When I see the Sta-Green label in person, I'll figure out what # I need for the area and time frame I need. A single 10# bag might be all that I need.

Thanks


----------



## Green

I have used 0.37 or 0.38 % Prodiamine at the 2 lb rate this time of year to last about 3 months. Got the rate info from this site. The minimum recommended on bags for proper coverage is usually 2.5 lbs though.


----------



## Powhatan

High temps & humidity last few days. No mycelium or fungal disease noticed other than some minor rust as previously discussed. Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.50".


----------



## Powhatan

Cooler 80s/70s air temps in 10 day forecast. Adjusted cover crop mix area water timer schedule from 3 times a day to 2 times a day with a longer watering duration. I'll hand-water if soil dries out too much in between timed schedule.


----------



## Powhatan

Sprayed N-Ext RGS & Air-8 at 6 oz/M mix rate each in the cover crop mix area to give the young plants a kick. Sprayed Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control at 13%/GL mix rate on various lawn border weeds.


----------



## dwaugh

@Powhatan I've really enjoyed reading your lawn journal. You seem to have a very balanced approach (and goals). I have two questions, are you still liking that Toro mower you got? I am also interested in a just a regular push, I don't need the self propelled aspect (just 3K of lawn anyway). Second, are you happy with the clover? I just bought a one pound bag and was thinking about trying it out. My lawn is in not real great shape, but in the back, my goal is to reduce mud that the dogs get into and track in the house, not have a perfect lawn (or rather, my idea of a perfect lawn in the back is more utilitarian).


----------



## Green

@Powhatan, when you sprayed the ammonium nonanoate, did you get the feeling that it needed either sunlight or air circulation in order to work? I sprayed it today, but it was later in the day, and I topdressed over it right after it dried. No hint of the moss dying in that 15 min. Do you think it'll still work the way I did it?

And like the previous post asked, please comment further on the mower. I'm ok with it, but the high wheels make turns difficult on the hills...my shoulders get repetitive aggravation. Also, does your gas tank have a red plastic thing in it? I'm not sure what that's for, but it does make pouring gas in tougher.


----------



## Powhatan

dwaugh said:


> @Powhatan I've really enjoyed reading your lawn journal. You seem to have a very balanced approach (and goals). I have two questions, are you still liking that Toro mower you got? I am also interested in a just a regular push, I don't need the self propelled aspect (just 3K of lawn anyway). Second, are you happy with the clover? I just bought a one pound bag and was thinking about trying it out. My lawn is in not real great shape, but in the back, my goal is to reduce mud that the dogs get into and track in the house, not have a perfect lawn (or rather, my idea of a perfect lawn in the back is more utilitarian).


@dwaugh thanks for reading along.

I'm enjoying the new Toro push mower. I didn't have a bag option on the old push mower so really liking that when I see disease becoming active and I can capture the grass blades. It seems a bit heavier to push than my old mower when I haven't engaged the drive belt yet in some flat areas, I'm probably pushing against the belt tension, but the drive does come in very handy in slope areas and long straight lines. When I was shopping to replace my old gas mower I wanted a battery powered and the Toro 60 volt was my primary choice, but what I wanted wasn't in stock and looking at the battery life I probably needed to invest in another battery or two just to mow all my lawn. Your 3K is small enough for a single 6.0 or 7.5 Amp battery.

I think long term the clover will be a wise choice to bring many natural benefits to the grass & soil, it grows practically anywhere, but be careful as small amount of clover seed goes a long way. It's not durable like grass would be in heavy traffic situations, but will probably do all right if mixed in with grass, that's what I'm doing. Active dogs can be tough on grass lawns especially if the dogs are limited to a small area. If your back yard retains moisture longer, you may want to look into other remedies first, such as trimming up any low hanging tree branches to allow more sunlight before adding clover.


----------



## Powhatan

Green said:


> @Powhatan, when you sprayed the ammonium nonanoate, did you get the feeling that it needed either sunlight or air circulation in order to work? I sprayed it today, but it was later in the day, and I topdressed over it right after it dried. No hint of the moss dying in that 15 min. Do you think it'll still work the way I did it?
> 
> And like the previous post asked, please comment further on the mower. I'm ok with it, but the high wheels make turns difficult on the hills...my shoulders get repetitive aggravation. Also, does your gas tank have a red plastic thing in it? I'm not sure what that's for, but it does make pouring gas in tougher.


@Green I normally spray the ammonium nonanoate when it's warm, it's at least mid-day, no rain, and little wind breeze. I usually start seeing burn down within 30 minutes and mostly brown by 3 hours. This is what the label says: _"Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control effect on plant tissue may be more rapid in warm weather than in cold conditions. however, weed control is normally unaffected by temperature."_ I recently killed some moss and confirmed it was dead a day later. I'd recommend waiting a day after using the product on the target plant before doing any further lawn activity in the sprayed area.

I'm enjoying the Toro push mower. I haven't used my heavy John Deere x320 rider since getting the push. Actually, I think the lighter mower is better for my lawn. Practically all the push mowers I've owned have the high back wheels, it's something I prefer. I've even cannibalized high wheels on older mowers and replaced the smaller wheels on newer mowers.

Yep, that red plastic thingy in the mower gas tank does make filling the tank a little awkward. I don't know the official name for it, but it's a visual aid filing the tank when gas comes up to the bottom so you don't overfill.


----------



## Powhatan

Hand-pulled a small virginia buttonweed clump and some poa trivialis spaghetti clumps.

I'm seeing more young poa triv becoming apparent in the backyard shadiest corner, unfortunately that spot is up against my neighbor's property line so I can't just cut down trees to allow in more sunlight. I'm thinking that next spring I'll glyphosate that back corner, fallow for a month or so, then sow/grow clover until the native plants reintroduce themselves. There is some white clover in that back corner spreading since last year but not in bulk. Long term I'll let the native plants flourish since they are adapted to the area. Doesn't make sense to keep fighting triv every year.


----------



## Powhatan

Received 1.44" rain yesterday and 0.77" this morning. More scattered rain forecasted this evening and next two days. I need to mow again but the ground is too soggy. The area to the far right in the pic is where most of the poa triv keeps reappearing.


----------



## Powhatan

I noticed this morning some white mycelium dark grass disease areas appearing, suspect pythium blight.

Sprayed neem oil concentrate at 2 oz/GL mix rate on the disease areas. The idea with spraying neem oil is to smother the disease pathogen to limit it's multiplying ability and increase the chances the grass plant will grow out of the diseased blades.



Edit: Sun popped out several times during the day and the dried the grass enough, so bagged mowed @ HOC 3.50".


----------



## Green

Powhatan said:


> Yep, that red plastic thingy in the mower gas tank does make filling the tank a little awkward. I don't know the official name for it, but it's a visual aid filing the tank when gas comes up to the bottom so you don't overfill.


Ok, I'm going to look into removing it. Not sure if it helps seal the cap, too, or not. I'm going to make a post on this. It's really annoying though...I want to put it into storage. Thankfully it just pulls right out. But is that ok? We will see.

Btw, I did overfill one time (last week) because I had my ear protection on and it was dark where I was pouring. Nearly overflowed it...right to the brim. No ill effects while mowing.

Regarding the wheels, can you go into detail about how to swap high for low or low for high wheels? When these wear out someday, I want to swap them for low ones. But I believe there's another part, some bracket I would have to replace (because the high wheel mowers have to sit lower in the back to compensate for the extra wheel diameter). Is this correct? If you can outline how to do it, I'd be grateful. no one has info online about this that I could find. (Everyone says just buy the mower with the wheels you prefer.) I also am not a fan of Toro's skinny wheels...they dig in too much. I'd hope to also maybe replace them with something slightly wider, like what Honda or MTD uses.


----------



## Powhatan

No rain today. Did a random screwdriver test over the lawn and was generally only able to go down ~2", no wonder the soil is so saturated.

Edit: Conducted a larger sampling screwdriver test and most areas I was able to easily go down 8" into the clay sub-surface but still had areas only down ~2". I wonder once soil dries how hard it will be to go down 8" into the clay.

Muad'Dib has called a big one.


----------



## Powhatan

Green said:


> Regarding the wheels, can you go into detail about how to swap high for low or low for high wheels? When these wear out someday, I want to swap them for low ones. But I believe there's another part, some bracket I would have to replace (because the high wheel mowers have to sit lower in the back to compensate for the extra wheel diameter). Is this correct? If you can outline how to do it, I'd be grateful. no one has info online about this that I could find. (Everyone says just buy the mower with the wheels you prefer.) I also am not a fan of Toro's skinny wheels...they dig in too much. I'd hope to also maybe replace them with something slightly wider, like what Honda or MTD uses.


@Green I've been lucky cannibalising MTD push mower wheel parts. The models I've owned had very similar molded stamped decks and pre-drilled attachment holes so moving the wheel bracket/adjusters from one mower to the other was easy. Also, you have to be aware that rotary mower decks have a pitch angle that is slightly lower towards the front of the deck for proper cutting and clip ejection. Just going from a high to low wheel might necessitate changing out the rear wheel bracket, or at least using a compensated deck height scale when moving the deck HOC adjustment levers.


----------



## Powhatan

Soil temps been mid-70Fs @ 2" depth this week, decided to apply fall preM. I'll need to apply supplemental preM in late Nov.

Broadcasted 50# LESCO Pendimethalin preM 0-0-7 and 50# Nutrients Plus Screamin' Green 16-2-3 fertilizer, forecasted rains will water in.

Two days after spraying neem oil on a mycelium dark grass disease area pythium blight suspected, the dark areas turned light grey'ish probably dead tissue. Now the healthy blades need to grow out.


----------



## Powhatan

Soil temp this morning was 67F @ 2" depth; GreenCast shows 5 day average is 72.8F. Good thing I broadcasted preM already.

26 days post seed down in the cover crop mix area. Adjusted water timer schedule from 2 times a day to once a day with a longer watering duration. New growth is up to ~2.50" height.


----------



## Powhatan

Received ~3.50" heavy rain yesterday. Bag mowed @ 3.50" to capture potential disease blades and help dry ground. I'm thinking there's a good chance an amount of the preM I broadcasted almost a week ago probably washed away with the heavy rains so I'll broadcast some more preM by the end of the month.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some poa trivialis and nimblewill weeds.


----------



## Powhatan

Very comfortable cooler temps this week. Deer and rabbits starting to feed again eating grass & clover in the backyard and leaving fertilizer droppings.


----------



## Powhatan

Hand-pulled more annual sedges and poa trivialis. Cover crop mix area adjusted water timer schedule from once a day to every other day with a longer watering duration.


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## Powhatan

Powhatan said:


> I'm seeing more young poa triv becoming apparent in the backyard shadiest corner, unfortunately that spot is up against my neighbor's property line so I can't just cut down trees to allow in more sunlight. I'm thinking that next spring I'll glyphosate that back corner, fallow for a month or so, then sow/grow clover until the native plants reintroduce themselves. There is some white clover in that back corner spreading since last year but not in bulk. Long term I'll let the native plants flourish since they are adapted to the area. Doesn't make sense to keep fighting triv every year.


Change of plans ... I'm seeing a lot more young poa trivialis appearing in the shady back corner now, so instead of working on this area next spring I'll do it now.

Sprayed glyphosate 50.2% concentrate mix @ 3 oz/GL using hand tank sprayer with fan nozzle. I'll probably do two more spray applications about a week or so apart. When the autumn leaves fall I'll make sure to start layering them in this back corner. Then come spring if grass still appearing through the leaves I'll spot spray glyphosate. My hope is the native plants will reintroduce themselves naturally and fill in this back corner ... it will take some time I know.


----------



## Green

Must be either in the soil or grass seed...


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## Powhatan

It's the unique "string of beads". No one else seems to see that in their triv so I presume soil disturbance when the house was built unearthed this plague.

Edit: Sent another sample to Va Tech plant lab for identification. Let's see if they re-identify as poa trivialis.


----------



## Powhatan

Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.50". Supplemental preM application due to heavy rain washout, broadcasted 20# Scotts HALTS pendimethalin 1.71% preM, ~4 months protection.


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## Powhatan

~5 weeks post seed down in the cover crop mix area around the oak tree. Overall very decent clover fill in but the TTTF is kinda weak, probably needs more time to thicken up. Air temps are cooler and receiving more rain, removed the water timer, hose, and sprinkler.

According to this document White Oak (quercus alba) trees have a moderate allelopathic effect. I wonder how much that is affecting the new crop growth. I know trees suck up more water which leaves less for the surrounding turf grass at the base of the tree.


----------



## Powhatan

Seeing some fall colors.



Dogwood trees.


----------



## dwaugh

Are those dogwoods? I like the blue bottle sculpture in the last post.


----------



## Powhatan

Yep, they are Dogwoods. Here they are in bloom back in April.


----------



## dwaugh

@Powhatan they look good!


----------



## Powhatan

~1.5" rain Friday and Saturday. Tomorrow is looking dry enough to mow the grass then chance of rain again rest of week.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled hairy bittercress weed. Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.50". Sprayed 2nd app of glyphosate 50.2% concentrate mix @ 3 oz/GL using hand tank sprayer with fan nozzle in the backyard shade corner.


----------



## Deadlawn

Powhatan said:


> ~5 weeks post seed down in the cover crop mix area around the oak tree. Overall very decent clover fill in but the TTTF is kinda weak, probably needs more time to thicken up. Air temps are cooler and receiving more rain, removed the water timer, hose, and sprinkler.
> 
> According to this document White Oak (quercus alba) trees have a moderate allelopathic effect. I wonder how much that is affecting the new crop growth. I know trees suck up more water which leaves less for the surrounding turf grass at the base of the tree.


Clover sprouts much faster than TTTF. I mix clover with my fescue seed. I find that the clover sprouts in about 5 days, the fescue after about 10 days or more.

I never heard about white oaks having an allelopathic effect, I've only heard that about black walnuts and Norway maples. Mature trees will definitely compete for water and nutrients regardless of species.


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## Powhatan

Deadlawn said:


> Clover sprouts much faster than TTTF. I mix clover with my fescue seed. I find that the clover sprouts in about 5 days, the fescue after about 10 days or more.


Yep, with the warmer soil clover emerges within 2 to 3 days and TF/TTTF 3 to 5 days. When I late winter dormant overseed the slowly warming soil extends the emergence over a two to ~four week period.

A few years ago we had three nor'easters come through within a week or two apart that dropped temperatures and some snow. The late winter dormant overseed TF/TTTF had emerged already and I thought for sure those cold nor'easters would kill the young grass, but amazingly a lot of young grass survived.


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## Deadlawn

Powhatan said:


> Deadlawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Clover sprouts much faster than TTTF.  I mix clover with my fescue seed. I find that the clover sprouts in about 5 days, the fescue after about 10 days or more.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, with the warmer soil clover emerges within 2 to 3 days and TF/TTTF 3 to 5 days. When I late winter dormant overseed the slowly warming soil extends the emergence over a two to ~four week period.
> 
> A few years ago we had three nor'easters come through within a week or two apart that dropped temperatures and some snow. The late winter dormant overseed TF/TTTF had emerged already and I thought for sure those cold nor'easters would kill the young grass, but amazingly a lot of young grass survived.
Click to expand...

Wow, I never realized how much faster germination could be with warmer soil temps! Soil temps here right now are hovering in the 60's and were probably in the low 70's when I seeded. Tall fescue is said to germinate in around 10-14 days, so I thought I was doing well when I saw sprouts at 10 days out.

The trouble I have is that I'm not motivated to move around wheelbarrows full of compost in August when temps are still hot here. I never seem to get seed down before mid-Sept. and I have never had a problem with winter kill. The only problem I have is the following summer a lot of the grass doesn't survive.

It is generally advised to seed grass here between Aug. 15 and Sept. 15, though people seed here up until Oct. 1 without having winter kill.


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## Powhatan

Received 1.1" rain last night.

Planned mid-Oct applications:


160# LESCO CarbonPro-G soil improver.

50# Nutrients Plus Screamin' Green 16-2-3 fertilizer.


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## Deadlawn

Case in point! I just noticed sprouts on my 2nd tall fescue seed patch - 7 days out! We had warmer temps this past week compared to the week after I seeded the 1st patch which sprouted 10 days out.


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## Powhatan

Shoveled lawn soil from high to low spots, lots of earthworms. Leveled and compacted soil down using the two shoe stomp method.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some annual sedges and dog fennel weeds.


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## Deadlawn

That looks like sandy soil around that oak tree.


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## Powhatan

Deadlawn said:


> That looks like sandy soil around that oak tree.


Yes, sandy mix surface with clay mix ~2" below, that's what my lawn soil profile is mostly like. I did a screwdriver test in that area, some spots I could not go down ~2", others I went easily down 6"+. Past few years I've been broadcasting soil improver products to help soften the soil, house was built ~5 years ago.


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## Deadlawn

Powhatan said:


> Deadlawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> That looks like sandy soil around that oak tree.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, sandy mix surface with clay mix ~2" below, that's what my lawn soil profile is mostly like. I did a screwdriver test in that area, some spots I could not go down ~2", others I went easily down 6"+. Past few years I've been broadcasting soil improver products to help soften the soil, house was built ~5 years ago.
Click to expand...

Do you mean you have a VERY HARD TIME pushing the screwdriver down or is it IMPOSSIBLE?

I find parts of my yard where a long screwdriver is harder to push through than others, but nowhere is it impossible unless I hit tree roots or a rock.


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## Powhatan

I pushed, had resistance, pushed a little harder, still had resistance. I dug up the spots where I had difficulty pushing through and noticed hard clay below the sandy surface. I'm sure if I'd pushed REALLY hard on the screwdriver it probably would start to go down further.


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## Powhatan

I'll spray a 3'rd and final glyphosate app in the back shady corner.


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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.50"


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled lots of poa trivialis (left) and orchardgrass (right). Both are light green and have a rubbery feel to them. Going to have a bumper crop come next spring.


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## Powhatan

Hand-pulled more poa trivialis and orchardgrass weeds.

Mulch mowed grass & leaves @ lower HOC 3.25".

Broadcasted TTTF with white & strawberry clover seed mix over the bare ground areas where I pulled weeds. Used the garden weasel to break up preM barrier and have good seed to soil contact.


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## Deadlawn

Powhatan said:


> Hand-pulled more poa trivialis and orchardgrass weeds.
> 
> Mulch mowed grass & leaves @ lower HOC 3.25".
> 
> Broadcasted TTTF with white & strawberry clover seed mix over the bare ground areas where I pulled weeds. Used the garden weasel to break up preM barrier and have good seed to soil contact.


This fall, I seeded strawberry clover for the first time with my tall fescue since I have read strawberry clover is more tolerant of heat and drought than white clover. Do you have experience with both of these species of clover?


----------



## Powhatan

Deadlawn said:


> This fall, I seeded strawberry clover for the first time with my tall fescue since I have read strawberry clover is more tolerant of heat and drought than white clover. Do you have experience with both of these species of clover?


2nd year with white and 1st year using strawberry clover. I dug up some one year old white clover to see if nitrogen nodules were growing but couldn't tell if there, I did use inoculated seed. I'm hoping the difference benefits of both clover types will bring positive contributions to my low maintenance sun/shade non-irrigated lawn. I need to do a dormant overseeding early next year so I may put down some more clover seed along with the TTTF, not too much clover seed though cause a little amount goes a long way and the white clover do spread. :mrgreen:


----------



## Deadlawn

Powhatan said:


> Deadlawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> This fall, I seeded strawberry clover for the first time with my tall fescue since I have read strawberry clover is more tolerant of heat and drought than white clover. Do you have experience with both of these species of clover?
> 
> 
> 
> 2nd year with white and 1st year using strawberry clover. I dug up some one year old white clover to see if nitrogen nodules were growing but couldn't tell if there, I did use inoculated seed. I'm hoping the difference benefits of both clover types will bring positive contributions to my low maintenance sun/shade non-irrigated lawn. I need to do a dormant overseeding early next year so I may put down some more clover seed along with the TTTF, not too much clover seed though cause a little amount goes a long way and the white clover do spread. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

I generally use 10% clover when I mix my grass seed. I have had more success with white clover planted in partial shade, than in full sun. I'm hoping the strawberry clover does better in full sun.


----------



## Powhatan

I just had a conversation with my county extension agent about my recent plant identification submission. Two separate VaTech plant techs identified this plant as poa trivialis. Confirming same identification as previous. A written report is forthcoming.


----------



## Deadlawn

What is the big deal about poa trivialis? I understand it grows best under wet conditions which is probably why I have none here!


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## Powhatan

Deadlawn said:


> What is the big deal about poa trivialis? I understand it grows best under wet conditions which is probably why I have none here!


In my lawn it's considered a weed. Once you have it infesting your lawn it's very difficult (sometimes impossible) to remove. It spreads via seeds and prolific stolons. At times you think you killed it off only to have it come back again. There's no selective herbicide for poa triv labeled for turf grass that I'm aware of. Here's one example TLF member fighting it: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23730


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## Deadlawn

From my perspective, as long as it stays green, I don't really mind the "2 tone" lawn. It's far better than crabgrass!!!


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## Green

@Powhatan, I put down some KY-31 seed (0/0) today. First time ever using it. Do you feel it germinates and grows in as fast as Perennial Ryegrass? I also just threw some of it down, no raking of dead stuff first or covering the seed at all, and pressed it in with the lawn tractor wheels while mowing. Does it do ok in that situation? I'm hoping some of it makes it to bare the soil in those areas.

(We are late in the season here to still be seeding. TTTF is not really viable this late in the year here.) I'm hoping the KY-31 will act more like Ryegrass. Also hoping it might tolerate being mowed over with the tractor shortly after germination.

I know it's not a miracle grass, but it seems pretty close...


----------



## Deadlawn

Green said:


> @Powhatan, I put down some KY-31 seed (0/0) today. First time ever using it. Do you feel it germinates and grows in as fast as Perennial Ryegrass? I also just threw some of it down, no raking of dead stuff first or covering the seed at all, and pressed it in with the lawn tractor wheels while mowing. Does it do ok in that situation? I'm hoping some of it makes it to bare the soil in those areas.
> 
> (We are late in the season here to still be seeding. TTTF is not really viable this late in the year here.) I'm hoping the KY-31 will act more like Ryegrass. Also hoping it might tolerate being mowed over with the tractor shortly after germination.
> 
> I know it's not a miracle grass, but it seems pretty close...


Last year, I sowed KY-31 around mid-Sept. I'm about 20 minutes north of Springfield, MA (Zone 6A). KY-31 has about the same germination rate as TTTF - about 10-14 days. It did fine and was green all winter and this spring. Summer is what did it in.

You are in 6B, so just a bit warmer and less chance of an early frost. It's still pretty late to sow anything right now. You may get lucky...........or not. It's a crap shoot at this point.


----------



## Powhatan

@Green in my experience both KY-31 & TTTF germinate and grow from seedlings about same rate with similar conditions as far as I can tell. I suspect at some point during the growing process the KY-31 roots will grow deeper than the TTTF during optimal warm growing conditions. You may get lucky and the new KY-31 growth will survive the colder weather, mine did.


----------



## Powhatan

Deadlawn said:


> From my perspective, as long as it stays green, I don't really mind the "2 tone" lawn. It's far better than crabgrass!!!


Lime green color isn't the only poa triv displeasing lawn turf characteristic. Just like crabgrass, it spreads and chokes out the surrounding desirable grass. During hot dry summer it can turn brown, leaving dead looking patches all over. You might mistake the browning for fungus or grubs. It's not really dead, it's dormant waiting for cooler wet weather again so it can green back up and continue spreading. Sure, there are situations where poa triv is desirable when it's intentionally sowed for a purpose.


----------



## Powhatan

Received ~3.00" rain this past week. Soil temp is 57F @ 2" depth. 10 days since broadcasting white & strawberry clover/TTTF mix in bare areas and randomly all over lawn. Lots of new clover and TTTF appearing.

After the grass and soil dries enough, I'll mulch mow and broadcast 50# Nutrients Plus Screamin' Green 16-2-3 fertilizer. I had planned to also broadcast 160# LESCO CarbonPro-G soil improver but my local SiteOne has been out of stock.


----------



## dwaugh

Looks great!


----------



## Powhatan

dwaugh said:


> Looks great!


Thanks


----------



## Deadlawn

Very nice!


----------



## Powhatan

Deadlawn said:


> Very nice!


Thanks

Quite remarkable that grass and clover can green back up from a hot non-irrigated July.





A month later after rains return, don't have to waste clean water resources or chase ET0 measurements.


----------



## Green

100-degree soil temps are not something I ever want to see...I don't think I've ever seen triple digits.


----------



## Powhatan

Grass grew to 6"+ height, mulch mowed @ HOC highest setting 4.00". Broadcasted 50# Nutrients Plus Screamin' Green 16-2-3 fertilizer and 80# LESCO CarbonPro-G soil improver (limited SiteOne stock).


----------



## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some poa triv, dogfennel, marestail, and orchardgrass weeds. Haven't noticed any poa annua yet.


----------



## Powhatan

Encore azeleas are forming their fall buds. Broadcasted an additional 40# LESCO CarbonPro-G soil improver.

Cover crop mix area has filled in fairly well. The clover will help condition the soil. Now there are zillions of oak nuts falling which will produce several little trees, that's okay, they will leave organic material in the soil when they die.


----------



## Powhatan

Looking over my journal I forgot to post a follow-up pic of the spot where I sprayed neem oil to stop a pythium blight spread.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=328202#p328202

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=329089#p329089

Sep 11 sprayed neem oil.



~3 weeks later Oct 2.


----------



## Powhatan

Rain forecasted this evening. I'll mulch mow again @ HOC 4.00" tomorrow or next day, then start bringing HOC down to 3.50" for remainder of the year. The deer & rabbits basically do my last mow of the year during Dec when they eat several grass and clover down to about an inch above the crown. In turn, the animals fertilize the soil with their waste.

Typically mid-next month is the first overnight freeze temp drop in my area. I've noticed there is still some top growth for another three weeks after that. I plan to broadcast LESCO 24-0-11 fertilizer after the first freeze. That fertilizer is ~2/3 fast release urea. It will be my last turf application for the year.


----------



## Lust4Lawn

Nice comparison for the pythium blight.


----------



## Powhatan

No rain or misting today, grass and soil dried somewhat, decided to mulch mow grass & leaves @ HOC 3.50". Tropical system bringing rain and wind tomorrow and Friday.


----------



## Powhatan

The wind & rain came and went quickly; the sun appeared then it got warm. The low next few days will be in the mid-30sF. Hand-pulled some poa trivialis and orchard grass.


----------



## Powhatan

Hand-pulled more poa trivialis. Numerous small lime green patches mostly in the shadier back yard.


----------



## Powhatan

Hand-pulled dogfennel, poa triv, and orchardgrass.

Compost tumbler contents baked down enough to use. Cooked contents is about 1/4 volume size from the filled 88 gallon capacity drum.


----------



## dwaugh

Great photos! Do you like the compost tumbler?


----------



## Powhatan

dwaugh said:


> Great photos! Do you like the compost tumbler?


Thanks. The compost tumbler is a Mantis Compact ComposTumbler Model CT02001. It's a decent composter, been using it to put compost on flower bed areas. I haven't tried doing hot composting to speed up composting to have more than one cooked load per year. My composter is sitting in a sun/shade spot so hot composting may not work very well for me.


----------



## Deadlawn

Powhatan said:


> dwaugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great photos! Do you like the compost tumbler?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. The compost tumbler is a Mantis Compact ComposTumbler Model CT02001. It's a decent composter, been using it to put compost on flower bed areas. I haven't tried doing hot composting to speed up composting to have more than one cooked load per year. My composter is sitting in a sun/shade spot so hot composting may not work very well for me.
Click to expand...

I have a compost tumbler as well. For the life of me, I can't understand why nobody has ever made one of these with wheels so you can move it when it gets heavy with compost.


----------



## Powhatan

Purchased 100# DLF Pickseed coated KY-31 grass seeds (1.50%/0.20% weed seeds) from TSC for dormant seeding in Feb. It holds up very well in hot weather non-irrigated.


----------



## Powhatan

Low last night was almost freezing temp. 10 day forecast is tracking ~15 degrees warmer than last year. Soil temp is 50F @ 2" depth. I'll plan on broadcasting last fertilizer app mid-month. Put down some top soil on low spots. Still haven't noticed any poa annua.


----------



## Powhatan

Hand-pulled some more poa triv and orchardgrass.

Areas in the backyard where I've pulled triv clumps the soil typically has a somewhat low spot. These low spots could be result of trees removed when the house was built and the organic material below ground is decomposing. I put down some top soil in these low spots to help bring up to level.

Extended air temps still tracking higher than last year. Noticing moderate grass top growth still; I'm sure the less day light hours are slowing down the growth. Rain is forecasted next week. I'll broadcast ~.50#N this weekend for a light feeding, that will be 1/2 of the 50# LESCO 24-0-11 bag.


----------



## Powhatan

Air temps mid-70s and soil temp 58F, nice weather. Hand-pulled more poa triv and orchardgrass, also put down more top soil in low spots where I pulled triv. I'll mow today and broadcast fertilizer once the morning dew dries.


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## Green

@Powhatan, I'm happy with the speed and vigor of the KY-31 germination. It does seem about equal to Perennial Rygrass. And it survived a day or two of frost, and later a light snow and subsequent hard 15 hour freeze down to a low of about 25F. Slight discoloration on some plants, but I think it'll rebound given the 60s and 70s this week. Planning to mow over the larger overseeded section with the tractor in a couple of days. Only 4 weeks since seed down! I think the seedlings will handle it.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Powhatan, I'm happy with the speed and vigor of the KY-31 germination. It does seem about equal to Perennial Rygrass. And it survived a day or two of frost, and later a light snow and subsequent hard 15 hour freeze down to a low of about 25F. Slight discoloration on some plants, but I think it'll rebound given the 60s and 70s this week. Planning to mow over the larger overseeded section with the tractor in a couple of days. Only 4 weeks since seed down! I think the seedlings will handle it.


@Green glad to know the young KY-31 are doing well. I had a similar experience a couple years ago when three nor'easters came through. KY-31 is a very tough sort. :thumbup:


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## Powhatan

Mulched leaves.


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## Powhatan

Blew off fallen leaves that the storm dropped so grass and soil will dry off quicker, then I can mow. Hand-pulled another 5 gallon bucket full of poa trivialis, seems to be a loosing battle ... need some PoaCure.


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> Blew off fallen leaves that the storm dropped so grass and soil will dry off quicker, then I can mow. Hand-pulled another 5 gallon bucket full of poa trivialis, seems to be a loosing battle ... need some PoaCure.


Hopefully one day in 5 or so years, it will be approved for use on residential lawns. But there are no guarantees it will ever make it that far even if effective (which it looks like it is). I would think sod farms would be next after it gets proven in the golf environment. And then probably sports fields after that. I'm waiting for it, too.

Tenacity was approved for both golf and sod in late 2007, and then residential in 2011 just over 3 years later. Hopefully a similar pattern will hold here.


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## Powhatan

Mulch mowed @ HOC 3.50". More rain forecasted tomorrow. Tuesday & Wednesday nights freezing low temps forecasted, that's approximate one week later than last year.

Hand-pulled two 5 gal bucket full of poa trivialis.

I'll broadcast later in the week the remaining 25# LESCO 24-0-11 for another ~.50#N light feeding which will make ~1.00#N for the month; that will probably be the last fertilization for the year. In previous years I've noticed after the first nightly freezing temp there will be ~3 more weeks of appreciable top growth.


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## Powhatan

I dug up three clover plants in random areas looking for nitrogen nodules and noticed one forming.


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## Powhatan

Green grass.


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## Powhatan

Current soil temp 55F @ 2" depth. I mulch mowed and broadcasted the final fertilizer app. last week on Thursday. The grass had grown ~1" since previous cut ~5 days prior to that. Today I'm not noticing any poa trivialis growing taller than the surrounding grass, top growth is slowing down. No poa annua seen yet.


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## Green

I think that timing of the final fertilizer last week is going to be good. I did similarly, applying in late October. As research causes the experts to rethink the timing for the winterizing application, we get to experiment and see the results. The current thinking is to apply it at the beginning of the hardening off period in mid or late Fall, right before the 4-8 week "slowdown" starts.

How soluble was your 24-0-11?


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> I think that timing of the final fertilizer last week is going to be good. I did similarly, applying in late October. As research causes the experts to rethink the timing for the winterizing application, we get to experiment and see the results. The current thinking is to apply it at the beginning of the hardening off period in mid or late Fall, right before the 4-8 week "slowdown" starts.
> 
> How soluble was your 24-0-11?


The 24-0-11 was ~64% fast release urea and the rest slow release PCU. The 50# bag over 12K would of been 1#N/M but I did 25# split app over a ~two week period to make 0.50#N/M. No sense putting down excessive N at one time since top growth is naturally slowing down. Past few years I've noticed there's mow-able top growth for another ~3 weeks right after the first overnight freeze temp and I've used that weather event to time the final fertilization, more fast release N than slow.


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## Green

Powhatan said:


> The 24-0-11 was ~64% fast release urea and the rest slow release PCU. The 50# bag over 12K would of been 1#N/M but I did 25# split app over a ~two week period to make 0.50#N/M. No sense putting down excessive N at one time since top growth is naturally slowing down. Past few years I've noticed there's mow-able top growth for another ~3 weeks right after the first overnight freeze temp and I've used that weather event to time the final fertilization, more fast release N than slow.


That's fairly similar to what I did as far as the timing and also the amount of fast release that went down (around a quarter pound). The differences are your weather, and the type of slow release fertilizer that was used (methylene urea in my case because I've had good late-season results with it in the past).


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## Powhatan




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## Chris LI

:thumbsup:


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## Powhatan

Soil temp 50F. Mulch mowed grass & leaves @ HOC 3.50". Grass grew in the last 10 days ~0.50" in shady areas and ~1.00" in sunny areas. Rain forecasted tonight and tomorrow. Later in the week the overnight low temps forecasted to be high 20s to low 30s.


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## Powhatan

Air temp this morning 28F and soil temp 41F. Very minimal grass top growth, the deer and rabbits are eating more grass, probably don't need to mow any more this season except to mulch straggler leaves. Next month I need to fell a dying oak tree in the front yard.


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## Chris LI

:thumbup: Those are some nice late season photos with the low sun angle. I enjoy your photos, which usually have some interesting nature captured somewhere.

FWIW, if you can wait until the ground is frozen (and the grass is definitely dormant) to fell the tree, it will cause less damage to the surface with the impact (assuming it will land in a turf area).


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## Powhatan

Chris LI said:


> :thumbup: Those are some nice late season photos with the low sun angle. I enjoy your photos, which usually have some interesting nature captured somewhere.
> 
> FWIW, if you can wait until the ground is frozen (and the grass is definitely dormant) to fell the tree, it will cause less damage to the surface with the impact (assuming it will land in a turf area).


Thanks. I don't have a monoculture striped lawn with tight concrete edging so I try to show things that I think are interesting and somewhat eye catching.

I normally wait til after the holidays to fell trees around the lawn so to not have an untidy mess for the holiday visitors. This particular tree is close to the gravel driveway and that's the direction I plan to drop it.

Here's where the home builder damaged the base.



The limbs have been dying and dropping with high winds or heavy rain. It's a safety hazard. A limb could fall on someone's head. I marked some obvious dead limbs; I'm sure the remaining live ones will die in time.


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## Green

Looks great. I often wish the lawn season was a few weeks longer where I am. We are wrapping it up now, over the next week or two here.


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## Powhatan

Green said:


> Looks great. I often wish the lawn season was a few weeks longer where I am. We are wrapping it up now, over the next week or two here.


Thanks. It's an okay lawn for being mostly forage grass 

I checked for top growth today and nothing detectable new. There's several more leaves that fell and I almost decided to mulch mow the leaves, but there's a wind & rain Nor'easter system coming through tonight that will drop more leaves.

Instead of mowing today I tuned up my Stihl chainsaw to get ready for next month. I changed out the spark plug, air filter, fuel filter, replaced the guide bar, sharpened the chain, and put in fresh gas mix.


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## Powhatan

Used the leaf rake to remove most of the remaining straggler fallen tree leaves and pine needles. Winterized push mowers. Season is done.

*2020 End of Season Summary*​
Seed:


Dormant overseed KY-31/NoMix/Fine fescue/Clover.

Irrigation:


Non-irrigated yearly except for poa trivialis kill patch areas and cover crop mix area new grass establishment.

Fertilize:


Spring - synthetic, Summer - organic, late Summer & early Fall - hybrid (synthetic with organic ingredients), and late Fall - synthetic. Yearly amount ~2.50#N with a split 1#N as final "winter" application in Nov for total ~3.50#N. I may not do a "winter" app next year.

Broadcasted two ~.85#K apps during Summer months to help with plant health & stress. If next soil report again recommends additional potassium I will broadcast during Spring so grass will have the nutrient before Summer stress sets in.

Fungus - No synthetic fungicides used:


Mowed with sharp blade at lower HOC 3.25" to encourage air flow during the fungal disease favorable reveal period. Bag mowed if disease suspect or seen.

Sprayed organic neem oil on new forming brown patch, pythium blight, and rust disease areas to smother disease pathogen spores to help limit spreading.

Weeds:


Spring - granular dithiopyr PreM, Fall - granular pendimethalin PreM.

Hand-pulled mostly. Sprayed selective herbicide on nutsedge, glyphosate non-selective on poa trivialis, and Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control non-selective on various weeds bordering the lawn. Poa trivialis continues to be the primary weed.

Insects:


Spring - granular Scotts GrubEx. Spring & Summer - granular organic EcoLogic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer to mostly kill the ticks. Sprayed neem oil on june bugs seen on bushes.

Soil Amendments:


Sprayed last of N-Ext RGS & Air-8 that I had on-hand. The Air-8 didn't seem to loosen the soil.

Tried different granular products - Broadcasted HumiChar, Scotts Foundation Soil Improver, Jonathan Green Love Your Soil, and LESCO CarbonPro-G. I plan to use the LESCO CarbonPro-G product next year

Filled in lawn low spots with top soil.


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## Powhatan

*2021 Lawn Plan*​_Objectives: biodiverse, low maintenance, non-irrigated, heat and drought tolerant_​
Mid/Late Winter:


Hand-pull weeds.

Virginia Tech soil sample test.

Sow shady and deer resistant native plant seed mixes.

Dormant overseed fescue and shade grass seed - DLF Pickseed coated KY-31, LESCO All Pro Transition Tall Fescue Seed Blend (TTTF), and Scotts coated Dense Shade Mix (TTTF/KBG/CRF).

Spring:


Lite overseed white & strawberry clover areas if needed.

Hand-pull or spot spray weeds with Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control.

Spray glyphosate on poa trivialis patches as needed, re-seed dead patches.

Garden Safe organic Neem Oil Extract - spot treat grass fungus & garden pests.

EcoLogic granular organic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer - house foundation & lawn perimeter treatment.


Lime - (if soil test recommended) to raise pH.

LESCO CarbonPro-G soil improver.

Scotts GrubEx - active ingredient chlorantraniliprole better for the bees.

Nutrients Plus Screamin' Green 16-2-3 low nitrogen hybrid fertilize.

LESCO 0-0-45 PCSOP - (if soil test recommended) improves overall plant health going into Summer stress.

Mulch mow grass @ HOC 3.50" (bag mow HOC 3.25" for more airflow if disease present).

Summer:


Hand-pull or spot spray weeds with Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control.

Garden Safe organic Neem Oil Extract - spot treat grass fungus & garden pests.

EcoLogic granular organic Lawn & Yard Insect Killer - house foundation & lawn perimeter treatment.

Safer Brand Lawn Restore 9-0-2 low nitrogen slow release organic fertilize.

Mulch mow grass @ HOC 3.50" (bag mow HOC 3.25" for more airflow if disease present).

Early Fall:


Hand-pull or spot spray weeds with Mirimichi Green PRO Weed Control.

LESCO CarbonPro-G soil improver.

Nutrients Plus Screamin' Green 16-2-3 low nitrogen hybrid fertilize.

Mulch mow grass & leaves @ HOC 3.50".

Mid Fall:


Hand-pull weeds.

Nutrients Plus Screamin' Green 16-2-3 low nitrogen hybrid fertilize.

Mulch mow grass & leaves @ HOC 3.50".


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## Powhatan

Low air temp this morning 23F. Soil temp 39F @ 2" depth.

Hand-pulled some poa trivialis, mouse-ear chickweed, hairy bittercress, and orchardgrass weeds. Some earthworms came up with the poa triv clumps. The poa annua must be blending in very well; I didn't notice any last year till late Dec and early Jan.


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## Powhatan

Low air temp this morning 18F. Soil temp 35F @ 2" depth.

Don't believe anyone was hunting on my property, this buck may have died naturally.


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## Lust4Lawn

Well that's one way to apply bone and blood meal to your trees.


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## Powhatan

Soil temp a little colder 33F @ 2" depth.


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## Powhatan

Collected soil sample to send to Va Tech soil lab next week. Soil temp 43F @ 2" depth. Collected cores at ~4" depth from 12 random areas. Last sample I sent in two years ago in late Jan, my sample was tested three weeks later after the priority farm samples were completed, so this time I'm hoping my sample is processed sooner. I suspect the pH will need to be raised with lime; the last lime application was 3 to 4 years ago.

Hand-pulled some small poa annua weeds, first time noticing them this year. They were in an area known to grow poa a. Some of the leaves had the identifiable crinkle.


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## Powhatan

Thanks @Green for prior help and discussions.

My last 2020 post. Cheers :beer:


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## Green

Happy New Year!


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## Babameca

Cheers! 2021


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## Deadlawn

Repeat post. Deleted.


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## Deadlawn

Powhatan said:


> Deadlawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the big deal about poa trivialis? I understand it grows best under wet conditions which is probably why I have none here!
> 
> 
> 
> In my lawn it's considered a weed. Once you have it infesting your lawn it's very difficult (sometimes impossible) to remove. It spreads via seeds and prolific stolons. At times you think you killed it off only to have it come back again. There's no selective herbicide for poa triv labeled for turf grass that I'm aware of. Here's one example TLF member fighting it: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23730
Click to expand...

I don't think I have any poa triv or poa annua. Plenty of orchard grass right now. I'm not one to nuke and it does stay green through the winter. Maybe I should let it grow into a hay field, harvest it and sell it to the local farmers, LOL!

Seriously, the only thing I really hate is crabgrass because it dies off in the fall as soon as temps go down into the 40's, then leaves bare areas prone to erosion. And then there is the quack grass that is infecting my garden beds. That stuff has some long rhizomes that seem to go forever - aaaarrrrrgh!!!!!!


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