# 2019 Renovation - Princess 77



## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

I'm about 6 weeks in to a front yard renovation (~2800sqft) going from 50% carpet grass, 50% weeds to princess 77 bermuda from seed. I have learned a lot from reading existing topics on TLF but thought I'd throw my project on here to gather more info and maybe help someone running issues I have.

Front yard in September 18:


Here are the steps I took so far. I appreciate any and all feedback!:

1) March 1 - First Treatment of 41% Glyphosate - Waited 10-15 Days 
2)Spot sprayed the still green spots
3)Mowed on the lowest setting bagged and disposed of material
4)Used a Greenworks dethatcher and on the lowest setting first from North to south, then east to west, then went back over it with the mower.
5) Repeated step four about 10 times
6) Put down about .5-1" layer of top soil material that was a mix of sand and compost, rolled the entire area
7) April 1 - Dropped 2LB seed - rolled again
8) Watered 2-4 times daily depending on weather to keep the surface wet.
9) April 18 - Applied 2.5LB of Scotts Starter Fertlizer (24-25-4)

Here is what I would have done differently looking back:
1)Waited for warmer temperatures to start - Real growth hadn't really kicked off
2)Watered aggressively after first glyphosate application to get additional weeds to pop
3)Applied a second full application of glyphosate.
4)Sent out soil sample for testing, then amended as needed
5)Added a starter fertilizer (I read somewhere not to but seems like the majority opinion is to use it) I tried adding it after I had already seeded and it seems to have improved growth some
6)Dropped 5LB instead of 2LB of seed to be closer to 2Lb/1000sqft

Here is where I am at as of 4/23. Not the coverage I was hoping for but I attribute that to not using enough seed and temperatures being on the cooler side for the first two weeks of germination.:


A collage of the weeds I'm seeing. I have some selective herbicide in the mail that I am hoping will knock these down:


My next steps are going to be:
1)Drop 3lb of urea fertlizer (46-0-5)
2)Spray with Celsius and Certainty
3)Add seed in coverage areas and continue watering.

Again, any thoughts and feedback are much appreciated!


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## FlaDave (Jul 10, 2018)

Those trees are concerning. Can't see the canopy from the pictures but bermuda and trees generally don't do well together.


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

FlaDave said:


> Those trees are concerning. Can't see the canopy from the pictures but bermuda and trees generally don't do well together.


Yeah for sure. I ended up going with the princess 77 because it supposedly had good shade tolerance for bermuda. I also thinned out the canopy quite a bit and removed several smaller trees trying to get as much sun as possible. This might turn into a 2020 zoysia renovation....


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## BadDad (Mar 13, 2019)

How much of day does the area get direct sunlight? Not partially shaded not dappled direct and full?

Stop pulling the nutsegde, you gonna make it spread like hydra, the nutlets underground will send two up for every one picked.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

Yeeeaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! Great to see another P77.
I'm on year 2, well it's 1 year old now. I have to update my reno/journal thread. Keep the updates coming. 
Mine is coming in strong this year but the weed battle was real. Get ready for that. I will pay off though.


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

BadDad said:


> How much of day does the area get direct sunlight? Not partially shaded not dappled direct and full?
> Half of the yard basically has full sun. The half closest to the house gets full sun from about 2:00-6:00pm. Not sure if that is enough?​Stop pulling the nutsedge, you gonna make it spread like hydra, the nutlets underground will send two up for every one picked.
> Dang thats good info, thanks! No wonder its all over the place! I was going around pulling those as they were the first thing to pop up. Hopefully the spray will take them down.​


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

FRD135i said:


> Yeeeaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! Great to see another P77.
> I'm on year 2, well it's 1 year old now. I have to update my reno/journal thread. Keep the updates coming.
> Mine is coming in strong this year but the weed battle was real. Get ready for that. I will pay off though.


Haha well at least I know its not just me. My neighbors keep commenting how good it looks.....little do they know its all weeds!​


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## BadDad (Mar 13, 2019)

lantonelli said:


> BadDad said:
> 
> 
> > Half of the yard basically has full sun. The half closest to the house gets full sun from about 2:00-6:00pm. Not sure if that is enough?​Dang thats good info, thanks! No wonder its all over the place! I was going around pulling those as they were the first thing to pop up. Hopefully the spray will take them down.​


I asked about clear direct sunlight because I tried hybrid Bermuda seed north of a fence and north of my house. These areas get low sun for most of year until peak summer when the sun hits them hard... about a foot into both didn't take at all. About 3-4 feet after that on north side of house it is pretty thin and Leggy even with mowed as low as my mower can go and a tight ferty and soil health regimen. Hell I have spots of pure dormant Bermuda on north side of house while rest of my property is being mowed twice a week minimum.

Had zero Bermuda under a heavy plum tree, tried zoysia which was a pain and then just cut that sob out to reclaim ~100 square feet of my yard for Bermuda.

Good news is, if you got enough sun, and a little patience even a small amount of Bermuda will spread and win the battle with a little help from you in spring and fall.


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

BadDad said:


> lantonelli said:
> 
> 
> > BadDad said:
> ...


Got ya. Well hopefully I have enough sun. The patience part is a bigger question....


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

Warmer temps and sun has really helped the bermuda start to show itself. I put down 5lb of urea and watered it in yesterday to help along as well. Picked up a new Chapin 24v sprayer yesterday and I can smell the fear from the weeds...Waiting for an 85 degree day, then I'm going to spray.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Can you spray newly seeded grass?


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

SCGrassMan said:


> Can you spray newly seeded grass?


I am going off of this PDF. Seems like I'll probably see some yellowing but the bermuda will bounce back quickly. http://www.pickseed.com/Admin/Publi...rticles/bermudagrass_herbicide_strategies.pdf


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Will they replace any seed that dies?


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## Crabbychas (Apr 25, 2018)

lantonelli said:


> SCGrassMan said:
> 
> 
> > Can you spray newly seeded grass?
> ...


I sprayed my front about 5 weeks after I seeded last year and it seemed to set it back a little bit, but I also had an army worm problem at the same time that really did a number on the new grass so it's hard to tell if it was the spray or just the beginning stages of the worms.


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

SCGrassMan said:


> Will they replace any seed that dies?


I am hoping by knocking down the weeds, it will allow the bermuda to start spreading. I'll probably go back with some seed in bare spots later.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

lantonelli said:


> SCGrassMan said:
> 
> 
> > Will they replace any seed that dies?
> ...


Let me put it a different way - will the person giving you the advice to spray fresh seed be fixing it if it dies?


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

SCGrassMan said:


> lantonelli said:
> 
> 
> > SCGrassMan said:
> ...


I'm doing everything on my own so yes! Do you think it would better to not spray? How would you control the weeds?


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

I wouldn't control the weeds. I'd establish the grass, and treat the weeds later. But I also would have done sod and not seed personally, but since you've seeded, get it established first.


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

SCGrassMan said:


> I wouldn't control the weeds. I'd establish the grass, and treat the weeds later. But I also would have done sod and not seed personally, but since you've seeded, get it established first.


Got ya. If I had it to do over I would do a much more thorough job with the glyphosate to preempt the weeds. Lesson learned I guess!


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Glyphosphate only kills emerged weeds and you can't seed after PreM. Just deal with them when grass is established. Bermuda is pretty tough then.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

@lantonelli 
I am surprised nobody has posted this up but it is full of good info that I used

https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/W160-B.pdf

https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/W160-A.pdf


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

Got a mow in over the weekend. I can definitely see the weeds yellowing after the spray. Bermuda seems to be doing well at least in the areas it gets a lot of sun. Spotty otherwise:


I also put down some seed in a small patch in the back yard. Hopefully I'll be able to use this to sod spots in the front yard once things get going.


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

FRD135i said:


> @lantonelli
> I am surprised nobody has posted this up but it is full of good info that I used
> 
> https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/W160-B.pdf
> ...


There is a lot of good information in there. Probably something I should have read before I started!


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

I'm liking the way this looks so far. I'll give it another week or two then do a second application.


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

Very slowly starting to fill in. Trying some more seed on the thinner spots in hopes it starts to fill in. I've been mowing twice a week at 2.5".


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

Put down another 1.5lb/1,000 this week and continued mowing twice per week at 2.5". We've finally had a few days without rain so I am hoping that will help the lateral growth some. My theory being that the grass will go looking for water. Does that even make sense? I am also considering lowering my HOC to encourage the spread. Would that have any affect at all?


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

lantonelli said:


> Put down another 1.5lb/1,000 this week and continued mowing twice per week at 2.5". We've finally had a few days without rain so I am hoping that will help the lateral growth some. My theory being that the grass will go looking for water. Does that even make sense? I am also considering lowering my HOC to encourage the spread. Would that have any affect at all?


That is filling nicely. Yes mowing lower will encourage lateral growth. I would wait for someone that has seeded to reply though. I don't know how long you should wait after seeding to start mowing it low. Another thing to consider is that to lower your height you may have to go one notch lower than what you want to maintain. Again I'm not sure how that plays into new seeding though.


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

@TN Hawkeye Ok thanks! Sounds like a good excuse to mow more frequently! I read another thread somewhere where a guy started mowing at 1/2" from seed so I am hoping he knew what he was doing and I'll be ok at 1.5". We shall see!


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## Jordan90 (Apr 7, 2019)

Just a thought does the 77 cultivar overtake standard 419? I'd love to overseed with one of the premier Bermuda's like 77 or TifTuf but don't really want to kill off my 419


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Jordan90 said:


> Just a thought does the 77 cultivar overtake standard 419? I'd love to overseed with one of the premier Bermuda's like 77 or TifTuf but don't really want to kill off my 419


No, P77 won't overtake 419, but would probably look a little different and could be an eyesore. Tiftuf, like 419, is a sterile hybrid so you can't get it as seed.


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

Mowed three times this week at 1.5" and it is looking rough. Hoping that things will improve with continued maintenance.


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)




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## FlaDave (Jul 10, 2018)

:thumbup: Wow that's coming along nicely.


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## lantonelli (Sep 21, 2018)

@FlaDave Thanks! Its looks a lot better when i leave it tall which is sort of a bummer. Just too much shade from the trees to get it to fill in.


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