# Seedheads mostly dead/dormant creating bad color overall



## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

Hi all! I need to start prepping for July 4th and I have a few questions. I was planning on making a long post with a timeline of the lawn from spring until now but I just want to make this quick and simple.

Some quick background. May was brutally dry and hot. Multiple stretches of multiple days 90+ and total rainfall for a 5 week period was 0.22". I started irrigating a little late so there was some recovery to be done. The past two weeks have had two significant rainfalls of 2.8" and 2.5".

Few pics of the lawn from the past month:

Seedheads were pretty much dominating my lawn for a few weeks


Lots of them....


Fast forward a few weeks...looks healthy minus the brown seedheads


HoC


My lawn as of today


Mostly all the dormant/dead stuff are seedheads


Ran out after dark and grabbed a few pieces


After all this rain these are still showing no signs of color. This had me wondering if I had been staring at poa all along. Color has been pretty light green all spring (no spots just overall lawn color is light), these all died when we got our 90+ heat wave, the seedhead pattern is close, and none of the reseeded spots from the fall have had these seedheads so far this year (0.00% weed seed mix from SSS).

I had assumed these were just KBG all along but i'm seriously questioning that now. Do KBG seedhead stalks die off or do they just resume growing normal blades? They don't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon.

Appreciate some insight!


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

I tried to look this up for a definitive answer, but no luck. All I can tell you is I observe the same thing on some lawns, but not on others.

Using some info to deduce more info: seedhead production is increased somewhat by a degree of nitrogen deficiency. The plant uses a lot of its energy to produce seed. If adequate nitrogen isn't available, the stand may even thin out to produce seed. Therefore, low doses of adequate (but not excessive) fert during seeding time (May into June) should reduce seeding as well as the die back of leaves and seed stalks.


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## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

I know it does not help you at all, but I have the same thing. I am figuring it will go away with time. Even with its issues, the lawn looks better than my neighbor, so that is a win.


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## LIgrass (May 26, 2017)

The seedhead dies and remains there until it decomposes. There's really not much you can do other than lower the HOC to chop them down lower then raise it back to normal HOC. They should drop to the soil and go away soon enough.

Anything with a triangular panicle is most likely Poa. It will usually be a dainty stalk as well, where KBG seed heads are thicker stalks. It's hard to tell from the pics if it is or not.

poa


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would spray some unsulfered molasses. The sugars helps decompose the dead stuff. A healthy soil with lot of earthworms will also speed this up. That's one of the reasons I like to improve my organic matter in my soil.

While this happens, keep an eye for fungus. Lots of moisture and dead material with heat are the recipe for a petri dish. I would also bag to remove some of that from the soil.


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

g-man said:


> I would spray some unsulfered molasses. The sugars helps decompose the dead stuff. A healthy soil with lot of earthworms will also speed this up. That's one of the reasons I like to improve my organic matter in my soil.
> 
> While this happens, keep an eye for fungus. Lots of moisture and dead material with heat are the recipe for a petri dish. I would also bag to remove some of that from the soil.


how much of this should be applied per K? i just purchased some unsulfered molasses for this purpose a few weeks ago but have been reluctant to spray it because i was unsure of the app rate


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

I'd lower the HOC to around 2.5" for 1 or 2 mowings and see if you can get them. Definitely bag your clippings if you do so.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

No hard science behind this. I use 2oz/ksqft in a hose end sprayer. From morpheouspa in aty, he recommended 2-4oz/ksqft.

PS, I would like for morpheouspa to join us. His organic approach to lawn care and gardening are really good.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

Delmarva Keith said:


> I tried to look this up for a definitive answer, but no luck. All I can tell you is I observe the same thing on some lawns, but not on others.
> 
> Using some info to deduce more info: seedhead production is increased somewhat by a degree of nitrogen deficiency. The plant uses a lot of its energy to produce seed. If adequate nitrogen isn't available, the stand may even thin out to produce seed. Therefore, low doses of adequate (but not excessive) fert during seeding time (May into June) should reduce seeding as well as the die back of leaves and seed stalks.


4/22 - Milorganite at 0.5lb N
5/1 - Milorganite at 1lb N
5/22 - Milorganite at 1.5lb N



LIgrass said:


> The seedhead dies and remains there until it decomposes. There's really not much you can do other than lower the HOC to chop them down lower then raise it back to normal HOC. They should drop to the soil and go away soon enough.
> 
> Anything with a triangular panicle is most likely Poa. It will usually be a dainty stalk as well, where KBG seed heads are thicker stalks. It's hard to tell from the pics if it is or not.
> 
> poa


I know, I thought nothing of it at the time so I didn't take pics or inspect them at all. All I have left are the dead remnants which aren't too helpful right now especially since they're wet and not drying out anytime soon.



g-man said:


> I would spray some unsulfered molasses. The sugars helps decompose the dead stuff. A healthy soil with lot of earthworms will also speed this up. That's one of the reasons I like to improve my organic matter in my soil.
> 
> While this happens, keep an eye for fungus. Lots of moisture and dead material with heat are the recipe for a petri dish. I would also bag to remove some of that from the soil.


Fungus is definitely becoming a concern, the lawn has been wet for quite a few days now and its raining again today. Brown mushrooms started popping up all over yesterday. Advice? I'm making an order today of whatever is necessary. I can spray anything.



SNOWBOB11 said:


> I'd lower the HOC to around 2.5" for 1 or 2 mowings and see if you can get them. Definitely bag your clippings if you do so.


I'm not sure I can go much lower without causing some ugly side effects, my last cut was already getting too low for comfort.

Thanks for the responses so far...........Need to try and find out if this is poa or not for my own sanity.


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## chrismar (May 25, 2017)

Same issue here. Lots of brown seedheads and bbdl (brown blades down low). New growth is all green and lush. I started a serenade+disease ex regemin 3 weeks ago to hopefully keep any brewing disease at bay.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

b0nk3rs said:


> 4/22 - Milorganite at 0.5lb N
> 5/1 - Milorganite at 1lb N
> 5/22 - Milorganite at 1.5lb N


Do you ever add any potassium? How long ago?


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

Delmarva Keith said:


> b0nk3rs said:
> 
> 
> > 4/22 - Milorganite at 0.5lb N
> ...


My spring soil test showed me "above optimum" on K


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

b0nk3rs said:


> Delmarva Keith said:
> 
> 
> > b0nk3rs said:
> ...


Would appear nutrition is out as the cause.

I've not seen annua that widespread and so evenly distributed in any lawn (but who knows, lots of things I'm sure I've never seen).

As a last gasp, did you by any chance let it get unusually tall between cuts at some point this Spring? I have seen that.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Looking at the pictures you posted especially the ones of the hole lawn I don't think they are poa a. They look like KBG seed heads to me.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

Delmarva Keith said:


> b0nk3rs said:
> 
> 
> > Delmarva Keith said:
> ...


Same thoughts here, literally never once thought it might be poa. The area pictured above (lowest spot in the lawn) was the last to go to seed, the rest of the lawn had already been through it at this point (with the exception of the reseeded areas from the fall...no seedheads there at all). Lawn has not been overgrown at all. The closeup picture of the seeded spot is the longest it has been this year and I think the longest I have gone between mows was 5 days.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

b0nk3rs said:


> Delmarva Keith said:
> 
> 
> > b0nk3rs said:
> ...


Has me stumped. Just not consistent with anything I've seen that doesn't seem to be ruled out. The way you asked the original question, it's a safe guess what you have growing there doesn't just do this every year.

So why this year? Just can't imagine. Trying to be optimistic, might just be its time and age to aggressively seed with lots of seed stalks.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

Until last year it was mostly uncared for. In the fall I repaired a lot of problem areas and overseeded some thin spots. I pushed it hard the last two months of the growing season. Not sure if that has anything to do with it. Also, I went pretty aggressive with a thatch rake this spring.


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

b0nk3rs said:


> Until last year it was mostly uncared for. In the fall I repaired a lot of problem areas and overseeded some thin spots. I pushed it hard the last two months of the growing season. Not sure if that has anything to do with it. Also, I went pretty aggressive with a thatch rake this spring.


The irony would be if it's a reaction to finally being really healthy for the first time. 

I'd appreciate it a lot it if you would report on its progress as the season goes on. I am really curious to see what it does.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

No harm applying a pre-m in the fall and again in the Spring and see if this issue pops up again next year. From my untrained eye, it looks like poa to me. But there are much smarter and more experienced people on here than me!


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

Delmarva Keith said:


> b0nk3rs said:
> 
> 
> > Until last year it was mostly uncared for. In the fall I repaired a lot of problem areas and overseeded some thin spots. I pushed it hard the last two months of the growing season. Not sure if that has anything to do with it. Also, I went pretty aggressive with a thatch rake this spring.
> ...


Sure thing.



Harts said:


> No harm applying a pre-m in the fall and again in the Spring and see if this issue pops up again next year. From my untrained eye, it looks like poa to me. But there are much smarter and more experienced people on here than me!


Applied Prodiamine at 3.5mo rate and have planned for this fall as well. Only pre-m last fall was meso in the starter fert.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

My lawn looks like crap right now too. Stemmy, a little brown, and thinner. Seed head season really sucks.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

I'm leaning back towards KBG seedheads for now.....

Any recommendations for my course of action over the next 3 weeks to get this in tip top shape for the 4th?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Do you have a flux capacitor? If not get one here ASAP. https://www.oreillyauto.com/flux-capacitor

Milo to push new grow and iron, and bag your clippings to collect the dead stuff.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

My KBG is all done with seed heads, and the stalks are dying back, new growth is quickly popping up out of the turf.

The PRG has started producing heads and is not growing otherwise.

My allergies have also kicked up this last week and a half. Is it possible to be allergic specifically to rye and not bluegrass?

Could I get a doctor's note recommending a full kbg reno this fall? &#128540;


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

Put down another 1.5lb N of Milo on 6/13. No change to amount of brown in the lawn. Today I will drop HOC by 1/2" and give it some extra watering this week. Not my ideal time of the year for this seeing as heat index is over 100 for the past few days and won't let up until Tuesday but we have a July 4th deadline to hit.


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## krusej23 (May 8, 2018)

I had the exact same thing you are seeing. I live in central Iowa and I had this for about 2 weeks where it looked kind of rough because you could see the brown stalks sticking through the green. They are pretty much gone away now but not sure why. I put down 1.2lbs of N from Milo last Sunday and had put down a light dose of Milo a month ago. I had also hit the yard with RGS, Humic12, dThatch, and greeneffect last Tuesday. Nice little cocktail that has made the yard look amazing along with the Milo and 4.5inches of rain last Wednesday.

They will start to disappear on their own. You could also try bagging to see if the suction pulls some of the brown dead stuff out.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

krusej23 said:


> I had the exact same thing you are seeing. I live in central Iowa and I had this for about 2 weeks where it looked kind of rough because you could see the brown stalks sticking through the green. They are pretty much gone away now but not sure why. I put down 1.2lbs of N from Milo last Sunday and had put down a light dose of Milo a month ago. I had also hit the yard with RGS, Humic12, dThatch, and greeneffect last Tuesday. Nice little cocktail that has made the yard look amazing along with the Milo and 4.5inches of rain last Wednesday.
> 
> They will start to disappear on their own. You could also try bagging to see if the suction pulls some of the brown dead stuff out.


I bagged when I dropped the hoc by 0.5" to 2.25". I was also hoping it would degrade over time but I have noticed no difference in the past 3+ weeks.

Per @g-man suggestion, I will be spraying molasses today......still recommend the 2-4oz rate?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Yes.


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## GoPre (Oct 28, 2017)

Ok to mix the molasses with N-Ext products?


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

GoPre said:


> Ok to mix the molasses with N-Ext products?


Yes


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## Tommy26 (Jun 15, 2018)

I was going to post pictures comparing to yours. I have KBG in its second season. It is very thick but one good section has a lot of the same that your lawn has. I was wondering if it could have been even a rye grass from the original mix I have that does not like the heat. I can easily pull it out with no resistance so I was thinking of just taking it out and hoping my thick bluegrass will fill in quickly.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

Tommy26 said:


> I was going to post pictures comparing to yours. I have KBG in its second season. It is very thick but one good section has a lot of the same that your lawn has. I was wondering if it could have been even a rye grass from the original mix I have that does not like the heat. I can easily pull it out with no resistance so I was thinking of just taking it out and hoping my thick bluegrass will fill in quickly.


I do this with patches of fine fescue....its the first to turn brown and i grab a handful and let the KBG go to work


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

g-man said:


> Yes.


@thegrassfactor recommended 0.5oz rate so I went with the lower of the two to be safe. We have a lot of rain the next few days, what do you recommend as far as applying more and if I should do it around rain?


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## Ihitseeds (May 11, 2020)

What did it end up being from?


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

*edit* Didnt realize this was from 2018...

Looks exactly like my Perennial rye yard from 2 years ago.

https://imgur.com/a/OXOcWNY#q0AcmJe

I'm going to take a wild guess, 2-3 growing seasons ago did you overseed with PRG?

My PRG reno looked amazing the first fall, spring, and following fall. But then its second spring/summer it turned into a giant shit show like you see there. It was like walking on a bunch of soft toothpicks and annoying as hell. It never went away all season and there were to many to pull, dethatching didnt work, mowing short didnt work. By the 3rd year it didnt happen as much, but the yard got a renovation this year on the 4th because i got so tired of it.


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