# AIR-8 questions



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Anyone want to share their experiences using AIR-8 on the following types of terrain? I've seen success stories in several lawn journals and am considering trying it due to some problem areas...

1. Ponding areas. I have one that sometimes can't be mowed for 2 weeks in cool weather. If I could speed drainage to 1 week, it would be great.

2. Areas that tend to be perpetually dry, compacted, and sandy. Summer dormancy is a huge issue there. I'm tired of losing grass and having to plug or reseed.

3. Slopes that are similar to 2 above.

I know this sounds terrible (since I'm not huge on chemicals in naturalized lawn areas), but it's the high pH aeration effect from the KOH that I'm interested in. Humic acid alone I can and do get elsewhere.

Just looking for some more detailed feedback,


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## 95mmrenegade (Jul 31, 2017)

My backyard *was* a trainwreck for water. On 3rd round of air8 and RGS. These pics are 90 minutes or so.





Cut the next afternoon.


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## Miller_Low_Life (Apr 12, 2017)

Air-8 has worked wonders on the slop in my front yard. That slope gets full sun all day and has been concrete for me the last three years. I started using Air-8 in the spring and applied it every 3-4 weeks. That slope is the best looking part of my lawn now. No water run off when I run my sprinkler.


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## M311att (May 22, 2017)

Are you supposed to water in the application of air8?


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

M311att said:


> Are you supposed to water in the application of air8?


I usually don't, but if you have the means to get it into the soil where it can work its magic, I would recommend it. @95mmrenegade Impressive results, similar to what has been happening in my yard.


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## 95mmrenegade (Jul 31, 2017)

When I spray, my carrier is about 2-2.25 gallons per 1k, I like to water it for 6-8 minutes(6 heads per 2k at 3.5gpm)


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Anyone have any experience with seeding before / after application? Any restrictions or tips? I still plan to try this stuff but likely won't get to it until around seed down. Am I going to be the guinea pig?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Delmarva Keith said:


> Anyone have any experience with seeding before / after application? Any restrictions or tips? I still plan to try this stuff but likely won't get to it until around seed down. Am I going to be the guinea pig?


I have read others doing that without any problems. I imagine that if you spray and seed, then you water, it'll wash off the air8 from the seeds into the soil where it can do it's thing. I'll be doing this in a few weeks.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Thanks for the replies...I have decided that the chemical route is not in my best interest. I may try to find a different solution, or just put up with it as it is.


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## 95mmrenegade (Jul 31, 2017)

Green said:


> Thanks for the replies...I have decided that the chemical route is not in my best interest. I may try to find a different solution, or just put up with it as it is.


What led you to that conclusion?


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

95mmrenegade said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the replies...I have decided that the chemical route is not in my best interest. I may try to find a different solution, or just put up with it as it is.
> ...


I'm interested as well


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Turfguy93 said:


> 95mmrenegade said:
> 
> 
> > Green said:
> ...


I don't think the KOH is a great idea...it's not something that's normally in soil...I would like to keep the solution less expensive as well. Cost and time required to apply a bunch of times is as big a consideration as well.

Also, wouldn't it just be a temporary fix for a year or so? And then the problem would recurr...?

If there is a less expensive product with the same type of formula, that's granular as well, and available in my area, I would consider it. (Assuming the effect is not temporary.)


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Green said:


> Turfguy93 said:
> 
> 
> > 95mmrenegade said:
> ...


I don't think that KOH is detrimental except for maybe from a pH standpoint. You are dealing with potassium, oxygen and hydrogen, which are all in the soil, just not in a basic solution.

I think the price isn't bad for 5 gallons of product shipped, but I already had the Kelp4Less extreme blend, so I ordered 2lbs of KOH off Amazon for $15 to try it. Based on my calculations, the 5 gallons of product has 2 lbs of KOH, so I went further to calculate 12 grams per M per application. I mixed and applied two nights ago with no I'll effects thus far.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Spammage said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> > Turfguy93 said:
> ...


Now, this is something I want to hear updates about. Tell me more...
I, too, already have Humic from kelp4less.

If it works...and is affordable and not too detrimental to the soil...

I knew it would only be a matter of time until someone started to diy air-8.
I don't know if I personally would want to buy a hazardous substance, though.

Btw, how much does each 2.5 gallon of AIR-8 weigh...?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

I have so many ideas I can't sleep...

Apparently Ultramate SG (thanks @JDgreen18 and also the recent thread for helping me to learn about it)is essentially the same thing as AIR-8, and can be applied as a granule. The only issue is that the app rate is a half lb per acre. I have no spreader that can handle such a low rate.

But I just thought of this...I bet you could mix it with something like slightly damp Milorganite and apply it that way.

Anyone know how the two products compare in terms of cost per active ingredient weight? Assume you buy Ultramate off of AMLeonard by mail.

Also anyone know if it's a fine enough granule that this would work, or would it have to be crushed up first? And is AM Leonard discontinuing sales of it?

A lot of my issue with AIR-8 is the fact that it has to be sprayed. It's too much time for me. I can mix and spread a granular faster.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

Why not just put in a French drain and be done with it?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Turfguy93 said:


> Why not just put in a French drain and be done with it?


Honestly, I feel like the issue is in the first few inches of soil. It's black, and water pools on top of it. The grass roots only go down a couple of inches, and don't go below this layer. In the early Spring, they went down less than in inch.

When I dug out a sample from the surface the other day, it came out in chunks. There are a few small areas a couple of feet wide that are the worst, where the water doesn't penetrate well beyond that layer. Mulching leaves into the areas is a no-go...it turns to a slop, which seems to clog the soil even more...it simply doesn't work. I'd like to rectify (to some degree) the penetration issue.

I was reading about soil types. Does this layer sound like peat soil, silt-loam, or clay to you? The rest of the yard has sandy soil/sandy loam. My guess is that over many decades, the water staying in this area caused the larger soil particles to wash away, leaving the finer particles, and then organic matter got trapped in the pore spaces, and being wet produced an anaerobic environment, and black layer. Does this sound plausible?

Therefore, I think it's more of a penetration issue than anything else.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

A French drain will channel the water out of there and solve your problem.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

g-man said:


> A French drain will channel the water out of there and solve your problem.


That may be true, but I don't think it's the best solution in this case. I would rather utilize the water as much as possible, by trying to get it to soak into the top 6 inches of soil faster. That's my goal. Also, the drain would only help in that small area. The surrounding soil is borderline as far as infiltration, so it needs a little help, too (stays squishy after rain, but doesn't pond unless there's a lot of rain). It's a flat area. There's no irrigation system and it relies on rain 100%.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

@Green I have the ultramate I can take a pic of the size if the granules for you if you want. I was gonna mix it in water but do like the idea of using it with a fertilizer as a granule.
Im working now Ill post a pic later.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

JDgreen18 said:


> @Green I have the ultramate I can take a pic of the size if the granules for you if you want. I was gonna mix it in water but do like the idea of using it with a fertilizer as a granule.
> Im working now Ill post a pic later.


Thanks. I may get it, as Greendoc has used it professionally with good results, and it's almost entirely organic.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

I agree that a French drain is exactly what you need @Green @g-man


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

At the course whenever we see a wet spot a French drain goes in @Green


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

@Green here is the pic


Here it is next to baystate fert for comparison


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Turfguy93 at a course, how are the French drains done? Gravel, sand and then soil on top? PVC pipe? I just never noticed them (or i wasn't looking).


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

JDgreen18 said:


> @Green here is the pic
> 
> 
> Here it is next to baystate fert for comparison


Not bad. Got a few questions for you...

1. Do you think it's coarse enough that it could be spread as-is at the proper rate with a normal spreader or handheld? Looks like coffee grounds. Is that a good comparison?

2. If not, do you think it's fine enough that it could be mixed with biosolid without crunching it up? I'm guessing no.

3. If it needed to be crunched up, it looks like it would crunch easily with a rock...do you think you'd lose a lot sticking to stuff like I see on your gloves?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

In any case, I'm going for the Ultramate before that version of the product is dicontonued and while AM Leonard still has some left. Even if it doesn't help solve the pooling issue, it should help the compaction issue. And I can spray or apply it mixed with fertilizer in the spreader.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

If the spot isn't too big, you could do a manual core aeration down to 8" or maybe even 12". Collect the cores and then backfill with sand. If the layers are creating a problem, now you've created a drain below those upper layers.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

@Green I'll try to answer your questions

1 I think it might be able to be spread in something like the wizz the hand held spreader. Being that you only need a small amount this might be easier anyway. Later I will try it and see if it works a d report back.

2 Mixing it with a fert seems to be ok. Only issue I see is being you need such a small amount you'd have to do a good job mixing it and even then would be hard to control even coverage.

3 crushing it up would be easy it was crushing in my hand.

All that being said I think the biggest selling point of the ultramate was the ease of it mixing with water or other chemicals for easy applications.
I know its not the same thing but the humic dg spreads just like a fert. My idea was to use both the dg and follow up with the ultramate say when doing a blanket spray app for something else. Killn2 birds with one stone.
Hope this helps


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

g-man said:


> @Turfguy93 at a course, how are the French drains done? Gravel, sand and then soil on top? PVC pipe? I just never noticed them (or i wasn't looking).


Dig a somewhat deep trench then gravel, then a permeable fabric on top of the gravel and then sand. It's just to get the water off the surface quickly


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

@Green I put some ultramate in my scotts wiz handheld and it fed fine. Let me know if I can help in any other way


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

JDgreen18 said:


> Green I'll try to answer your questions
> 
> 1 I think it might be able to be spread in something like the wizz the hand held spreader. Being that you only need a small amount this might be easier anyway. Later I will try it and see if it works a d report back.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Saw both your posts. I spread 2 to 3 tbsp of micros mixed with Milo, but they're powderS. That's why I asked. I'm going to order it.


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