# South East England 200m2 lawn



## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Hi, my garden is in the south east of England, Norwich to be specific. It is south facing and in the sun for most of the day.

I've tested my soil to be of ph 6.5. Awaiting further results from lab, however, I'm pretty confident the soil is of a good texture, a nice sandy loam. The house it belongs to is a 1950s semi. I've recently carried out an full renovation and rear extension since buying it last April.

Now it's time to sort the lawn. Currently planning on going KBG/PRG mix with this years top cultivars. To be decided.

Am currently looking through the BSPB 2020 results.

Ultimately, I want a thick, durable lawn(I have a dog) that can handle a reasonable height mow with a cylinder mower. I bought a qualcast 35s the other day in preparation.

Speaking of preparation. Works about to commence tomorrow on levelling out and rotavating the soil to a depth of about 8 inches. I then plan on leaving for 2 weeks with glyphosphate, before fertilising, seeding and rolling.

I'm new here, I've done a bit of research on here to get me to this initial post. Any and all subsequent advice is much appreciated. I attempted a lawn at my previous place with mixed success. I originally used a rolawn medallion turf and had to overseed considerably with lawnsmith classic seed. I was still left with lots of bare and thin patches. I think this was down to poor soil texture(it was a new build so was mostly subsoil on the top) shade and dog.

Also, thanks to @RCUK

Here's a picture from this morning


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

I've been carrying on having a look around the forum and found lots of talk of herbicides, is it recommended these days to apply a pre-emergent herbicide at the same time as seeding to prevent weedgrowth during the slow establishment of KBG? If so, which one? tenancity? Also, what about post-emergent herbicide for KBG/PRG?

Finally, PGR's, when do you put these down, once the lawn has established? if so, whats recomened for KBG/PRG? Primo max/moddus?


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

liamjones said:


> I've been carrying on having a look around the forum and found lots of talk of herbicides, is it recommended these days to apply a pre-emergent herbicide at the same time as seeding to prevent weedgrowth during the slow establishment of KBG? If so, which one? tenancity? Also, what about post-emergent herbicide for KBG/PRG?
> 
> Finally, PGR's, when do you put these down, once the lawn has established? if so, whats recomened for KBG/PRG? Primo max/moddus?


Hi there, another Brit.

We can't get pre-emergents over here, they're pretty much non existent unless you go to the effort of importing some.

Primo Maxx is obviously preferred but it's stupidly expensive, people have been using moddus and I have a non branded one I'll be testing soon. As for when to throw down, I'm not sure. There are plenty of non UK threads on it.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

The only pre-emergent safe for use at the time of seeding is Tenacity. Dimension and Barricade will prevent the seedlings from establishing and the seeding will fail.

Primo or it's generic are a good option for TTTF, KBG, and PRG. I am also curious how soon it can be used after seeding. The label says you can use it on PRG at 85% cover (around the first mowing). I assume it would be the same for TTF and KBG, but don't know for sure.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

What do you think about the choice of KBG/PRG mix, or do you think I should go 100% one type or the other. I've seen some pre-mixed PRG that has interesting marketing. Johnson's premier pitch. I'm yet to hear back from DLF about their cultivars.


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

I was able to purchase Tenacity through the e bay from a seller in Florida but I don't know if you could get it now in time or if it even would arrive.

Your method of tilling, spraying glypho, waiting, spraying, waiting should in theory reduce the changes of too many weeds but you will have some.

As bigbew said, Moddus is cheap but you won't need to use it for some time yet.

You won't go wrong with your choices of seed, see if DLF will sell you a small test sample size so you can try them out. Or seed the ones you suggested as both are good.

I don't know anything about which type is preferred if you have a dog sorry.

How will you level the soil and will you bring in any new material like compost, topsoil, etc. ?

Premier Pitch looks excellent as is PM79. There is a guy who won UK's best lawn who uses PM79, Daniel Hibbert I think is his name. Have a look at his twitter profile, he uses PM79 and DLF even used one of his lawns on their bags!


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

DLF usually refer you to their distributors. I did make a big contact list somewhere, I'll try and dig it out.

I think it comes down to preference for the blend. I've heard it's tough to maintain a single strain, but then in some cases it looks better. If you're doing this for the first time a blend may be better, the prg will germinate first to give you coverage while the bluegrass comes in, and in the long term the bluegrass will creep and eventually take over without overseeding.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

RCUK said:


> How will you level the soil and will you bring in any new material like compost, topsoil, etc. ?


I've got a medium duty rotovator hired this weekend so going to turn it over to a depth of 8inches and level with landscape rakes and a levelling lute. I'm not planning on bringing in any new material. The top soil I've got here is nice and loamy and goes down a good couple of feet. I am still however, awaiting results back from lab. so if I need to adjust anything I can before seeding.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

bigbew said:


> DLF usually refer you to their distributors. I did make a big contact list somewhere, I'll try and dig it out.
> 
> I think it comes down to preference for the blend. I've heard it's tough to maintain a single strain, but then in some cases it looks better. If you're doing this for the first time a blend may be better, the prg will germinate first to give you coverage while the bluegrass comes in, and in the long term the bluegrass will creep and eventually take over without overseeding.


That's good to hear, I've read elsewhere that the PRG will out compete the KBG so the idea is to start off with a high ratio of KBG to keep it at bay, or atleast seed the KBG before the PRG.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Rotovator did a superb job. Hired a BCS C8. Managed to get down to about 8" all over.

The lawn will be straight down the middle with bed and path to the left and another bed to the right.



I now need to go through and sift out all the stones, will then use a scaffold pole to get a fairly true level, compress and repeat. I've also started the 2 week wait with glyphosphate in hand ready to go down. I also have a sprinkler system that I need to dig and plumb in.


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

Remember to water it if you aren't getting rain to promote the weed growth and your subsequent glyphosate.


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

Looking good Liam. I used a scaffold board to level, had to find one that was true but worked a treat. You may want to use string lines to check levels.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

uts said:


> Remember to water it if you aren't getting rain to promote the weed growth and your subsequent glyphosate.


Was going to wait till I got my sprinklers in next weekend, but maybe I'll water it with a hose got now to get it started. What about when the glyphosphate is down? Is it best to keep it dry to avoid washing it off?


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

RCUK said:


> Looking good Liam. I used a scaffold board to level, had to find one that was true but worked a treat. You may want to use string lines to check levels.


Ah yeah I might get a scaffold board as well then give it a try. I've got a scaffolder mate so no probs sourcing. And yeah, had some string lines down for the initial level off then took them up and rotovator again to ensure still had an 8inch depth all over. Will get them down again for the final level off.


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

liamjones said:


> uts said:
> 
> 
> > Remember to water it if you aren't getting rain to promote the weed growth and your subsequent glyphosate.
> ...


The water is to promote weed growth so I would try watering it every 48hr maybe; make anything in the soil grow. When you do put gly down give it 24 hours. Then start the process again till you are ready to put seed down. People even put gly down just before seed day to kill of everything and it does not hurt the seed. 
Of course a lot of people put down mesotrione (Tenacity) for its pre-emergent property but it helps with some of the post emergent stuff as well.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

uts said:


> The water is to promote weed growth so I would try watering it every 48hr maybe; make anything in the soil grow. When you do put gly down give it 24 hours. Then start the process again till you are ready to put seed down. People even put gly down just before seed day to kill of everything and it does not hurt the seed.
> Of course a lot of people put down mesotrione (Tenacity) for its pre-emergent property but it helps with some of the post emergent stuff as well.


Thanks, now got the sprinkler temporarily set up, I started with a hose and gave up!


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Barenbrug RPR sport and Sportmaster Preseeder(8:12:8) arrived. Super quick turn around from collier turf on a next day service.

I decided on RPR after speaking to a number of UK dealers. All of them advised against KBG(SSMG) and said the UK is probably 3 degrees too cool for it. The also all advised me to go to a 100% PRG mix. The dealers that offered 'creeping' rye further recommended an element of that in the mix for its self repairing capabilities. After much deliberation, i settled on the RPR sport from barenbrug.
it contains:
40% Barcristalla
30% Barlibro (creeping)
30% Barorlando



I've also got the following on the way

*Nitrogen - N*
Urea Prills for regular feed
ammonium sulphate(AMS) for use in conjunction with other chemical to increase uptake.

*Phosphate - P*
yet to source for cheap enough, will hold off until soil test results come back, already got some in my starter fert.

*Potassium - K*
potassium sulphate(potash)

*Iron - Fe*
ferrous sulphate

*Plant Growth Regulator - PGR*
Trinexapac-ethyl

I plan on doing PGR, FE and AMS sprays every 3 weeks

*Herbicides*
Tenacity for new lawn establishment
Already have some triclopyr and glyphosate for sport treatment if required
Yet to decide if any other pre-ems required, eg prodiamine (barricade) or pendimethalin (available in UK) cant use on new lawn anyway so will wait.

*Fungicide*
Yet to decide if preventative measures required.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

I wish I had the cash for that order from Collier Turf, still debating if I can justify 20kg or to buy some from you 

Have you considered an all in one fert? I was looking at the 17-2-8 Vitax fert from Colliers. Seemed a good ratio and balance of organic and synthetic to me with some added micro benefits.


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

First post, fellow Brit here and just wanted to say I've subscribed to the topic to follow your progress with the Barenburg RPR. It's been on my radar recently as a potential solution to self repair dog spots.

What made you decide on the RPR Sport vs the RPR Sprint or RPR Golf varieties?


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

bigbew said:


> Have you considered an all in one fert? I was looking at the 17-2-8 Vitax fert from Colliers. Seemed a good ratio and balance of organic and synthetic to me with some added micro benefits.


I'm still waiting on the soil results back from the lab, but at the moment i'm thinking ill spoon feed urea regualaraly and then adjust P and K if necessary on an ad-hoc basis.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

lfrancis said:


> What made you decide on the RPR Sport vs the RPR Sprint or RPR Golf varieties?


Using figures from BSPB 2020 i created a spreadsheet to calculate overall mix performance, Barlibro (the Barenbrug RPR cultivar) isnt in the BSPB, but is in the french turfgrass-list, where it performs very well.

For the 'creeping' rye, it came down to RPR sport, RPR golf and germinal a30. Whilst the a30 was the best value for money, it sort of wasn't because it was only a 10kg bag vs Barenrbugs 20kg bags. I only needed 10kg though. Ultimately i didnt pick the a30 because both the RPR's performed better. I chose RPR sport over golf as total greeness(combined summer/winter) and disease resistance were higher than the golf. The RPR sport was also cheaper. Finally, i've seen the RPR sport(used to be called stadium) used in a couple of places online, @piotrkol and @j1ggy from here. Looks really good. The RPR sprint i didnt consider because 'RPR SPRINT is designed to be maintained at 60mm+ height of cut' so it's cultivar selection has been picked around that goal. I think mow height is also a contributing factor toward my selection of RPR sport. it's recommended HOC at 18mm is roughly what ill be going for. the RPR golf was 12mm.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

After rotivating to 8inches last weekend, this weekend me and a friend set about installing the two sprinklers and getting a final level to the lawn.



We used 21ft scaffold poles set across the lawn against a string line. Dug out each bay and stamped down the soil then added screened (8mm) topsoil and screeded off with a timber.


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## RasmusAnd (Aug 29, 2018)

liamjones said:


> *Herbicides*
> Tenacity for new lawn establishment
> Already have some triclopyr and glyphosate for sport treatment if required
> Yet to decide if any other pre-ems required, eg prodiamine (barricade) or pendimethalin (available in UK) cant use on new lawn anyway so will wait.


Excellent work! I have overseeded last fall with Barenbrug RPR Intensive (I believe it's a golf mix). So far so good. But I have a problem with Poa A - Would you be willing to share how you got your hands on Tenacity?


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

RasmusAnd said:


> Excellent work! I have overseeded last fall with Barenbrug RPR Intensive (I believe it's a golf mix). So far so good. But I have a problem with Poa A - Would you be willing to share how you got your hands on Tenacity?


Thanks, you need a lawn journal so i can have a look! I got the Tenacity from someone in the UK who'd bought it from an american eBay seller.


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## RasmusAnd (Aug 29, 2018)

liamjones said:


> RasmusAnd said:
> 
> 
> > Excellent work! I have overseeded last fall with Barenbrug RPR Intensive (I believe it's a golf mix). So far so good. But I have a problem with Poa A - Would you be willing to share how you got your hands on Tenacity?
> ...


Okay, thanks. I have been looking at US Amazon and Ebay but I will just have to look a bit harder for someone who will ship to the EU.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time it takes to put into a lawn journal but here's a few pics of my lawn about three weeks after I scarified, overseeded (again with RPR Intensive), and top dressed with sand to level out the humps and bumps it had gotten over the years.


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

liamjones said:


> lfrancis said:
> 
> 
> > What made you decide on the RPR Sport vs the RPR Sprint or RPR Golf varieties?
> ...


Thanks for the detailed reply. Definitely swaying towards RPR Sport myself now. Looking forward to seeing how your project progresses, good luck.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Applied glyphosate yesterday for the 2nd time using a hand pump sprayer. Really not happy with it, I added marker dye and could see what was going on. the spray was really mixed in the rate it was being applied, and the nozzle made it come out in a cone.



I decided to get a Solo 475 backpack sprayer after reading positive reviews. It's a diaphragm pump so the pressure is more constant and the nozzles are changeable to TeeJets. Just using the standard flat spray at the minute really happy with the results.



Did a test run this evening and uses 6L one way, so probably whilst I'm getting used to it am going to double up to 12L and go both directions.

Got the sprinklers set up on smart things now so I can hook it up on a 4 x schedule (7am,11am,3pm,7pm) to start during germination. Then onto one that calculates rainfall and tops up the rest. The area is looking a bit lumpy as have walked over it a couple times, pretty soft under foot. A few patches get waterlogged too where the clay content is higher. Am going to apply some sharp sand tomorrow to improve drainage.



Also got my test results back today from the lab. Pretty happy, just going to try and keep the sulphate down over the season. The results are as follows:


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Got the seed down today!



Sowed it in two directions with a basic drop spreader. 6.8kgs I ended up using over 120m2.

Made sure to fluff up the soil before sowing and added some sharp sand and compost to heavier areas identified by the sprinklers.



Raked again, rolled, levelled with a lawn lute and added seed by hand to the scraper back high points. rolled again.

Once happy with seed coverage, contact and level I filled up the new backpack sprayer with tenacity at 4oz/M (3.5ml / 120m2) and blue dye.





Let it sit for 3 hours then got the sprinklers back on a schedule. 3 minutes every 4 hours to start, will see how we get on. Don't want any washout.


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## Richard Slater (Aug 25, 2017)

Looks good, you've worked hard I am sure you will be rewarded


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

Looking forward to seeing some germination there @liamjones.

Did I see a Gardena irrigation system installed?


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

lfrancis said:


> Looking forward to seeing some germination there @liamjones.
> 
> Did I see a Gardena irrigation system installed?


Yes it's two Gardena OS 140 on a single 25mm feed. Mains pressure is about 3 bar. I've got it teed directly off the mains. It's controlled by a hunter PGV valve connected to a smart things controlled plug power supply. At my last place I had it set up with a fibraro relay, but as I only have one zone here I just have it on a single plug, cheaper way of doing it.

I'm having a bit of an issue with one of the OS 140's thiugh, it's got clogged up and I can't seem to dislodge to trapped dirt. Two of the nozzles are trickling out and causing an issue with lot of water pooling around the sprinkler head


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

Thanks for the response, I'll take a look at that setup.

Have you tried using a needle/pin to dislodge the dirt in the nozzles?


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

lfrancis said:


> Thanks for the response, I'll take a look at that setup.
> 
> Have you tried using a needle/pin to dislodge the dirt in the nozzles?


Yeah have had them completely off and as much casing as I could remove still to no avail. Have sent Gardena an email waiting to hear back.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

We have germination day 4.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

Congrats on the green babies!

Glad to see you didn't try to get grass growing right against that southern fence! That would be frustrating and probably muddy


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## j1ggy (Oct 14, 2018)

Those of you having any doubts aboit RPR Sport - don't! Just check my latest picture in my topic
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=270157#p270157 as it shows how cool it looks at 17mm or 5/8". Also, it germinates in 3 to 4 days and stays fairly green in the winter and I have nothing but praise for it.

And it goes in line with the above post. Oh, and I had Gardena pop-up sprinklers and I've replaced them with Hunter's. And I kinda feel the Hunter is better, especially because it's half the price...


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

That's two sources showing 4 days rapid germination, nice. How long @j1ggy until you saw the spreading capability of the Barlibro? Should really help with dog urine spots.

I'm thinking of killing mine in August/September and spreading this.


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## j1ggy (Oct 14, 2018)

IDK... All I had was earthworm problems. But seeing how fast it germinates and fills those spots, I'm really happy. That's the right word. Happy.

I just thought that it'll be a major PITA, but this has really brought my spirits up, as I cannot afford to have any bare spots at such a low HOC.

I'll take a few pictures tomorrow just to show where its at after a week and how the other bare spots (which I seeded on monday) look.

Oh, and I wasn't ready for such rapid germination and growth and I might have mowed it at 17 mm with the rest of the court. And if I did, it doesn't seem to care...

So I wouldn't be to worried about any prpblems that may derive from having your dog pee on it, as you can repair it fairly quickly. In this time of the year, that is.
Is it a male or female dog?


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

Congrats mate, hard work has paid off and nice to see those young shoots!

Check out another RPR fan here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ0JL_MZr5_gf5aDcGrgaaQ


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Thanks all, I should add I have adjusted my irrigation schedule to every 2 hours 7am-7pm for 3 minutes during this UK heatwave. Had 20c+ since sowing, today was 26c!

@j1ggy As for the gardenas, I went for them because of their ability to cover a square area, the hunters cover circular areas I think so would struggle with corners or massively overspray onto decking/fence? I'd be all up for going Hunter I highly rate their PGV valves


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

HoosierLawnGnome said:


> Congrats on the green babies!
> 
> Glad to see you didn't try to get grass growing right against that southern fence! That would be frustrating and probably muddy


Yeah I've tried to leave a gap to help mowing all around. The only exception is up against the decking but will dig back and add something like driveway bricks against it to give me that gap.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

RCUK said:


> Congrats mate, hard work has paid off and nice to see those young shoots!
> 
> Check out another RPR fan here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ0JL_MZr5_gf5aDcGrgaaQ


Thanks buddy cheers for all your help so far


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## j1ggy (Oct 14, 2018)

I have those oscilating Gardenas in my backyard for around 10 years now. And I still think that Hunters do a better job. I think that I should mention that Gardenas are hooked to my town water supply, while Hunters have their own well and high efficiency pump.
Yes, the wind sometimes is an issuse, and yes, you can fine tune them to cover or not cover anything that you do or don't need, bit I umderstand your reasons.

Also, I do realise that their installation would require you to do some alterations to your piping, which even I wouldn't do if I'm in your shoes...


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Day 5 since seed down. Starting to see green tips


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

liamjones said:


> Day 5 since seed down. Starting to see green tips


Fantastic, looks like even germination across the board right now. These temperatures will surely be helping if you keep it moist.

What height are you looking to mow at?


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

lfrancis said:


> liamjones said:
> 
> 
> > Day 5 since seed down. Starting to see green tips
> ...


Yeah today's weather has really kicked it on. Slower down the bottom where there isn't as much sun (shade from oak tree)

Looking to mow at the recommended 18mm for the mix


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## Matty316 (Apr 2, 2020)

Looks great Liam,

Looking forward to seeing how it progresses, unfortunately for me the price of RPR Sport is out of my League. I went with Boston Seeds last Autumn for my front lawn renovation.

https://www.bostonseeds.com/products/grass-seeds/lawn-seeds/bs-premier-lawn-grass-seed.html


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Matty316 said:


> Looks great Liam,
> 
> Looking forward to seeing how it progresses, unfortunately for me the price of RPR Sport is out of my League. I went with Boston Seeds last Autumn for my front lawn renovation.
> 
> https://www.bostonseeds.com/products/grass-seeds/lawn-seeds/bs-premier-lawn-grass-seed.html


How much are you after? They only sell in 20kg bags but price per kilo is pretty reasonable. About £5/kg. That's lawnsmith prices. If it's only a few kg I don't mind selling you some, @Mark B has already had some!


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Day 6, I'm curious about what drives the change from pink/purple to green. I first though the first little shoots were purple, but some have remained purple and are just as tall as the green shoots? It looks like a carpet of green and purple now really quite a strange sight


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## Matty316 (Apr 2, 2020)

I'd definitely be interested in buying some off you. That germination rate is rapid, looking forward to seeing it come through and establish.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Been following @g-man renovation guide as was waiting for day 28 for the first mow, some patches of my lawn are already at 2inches so I just asked for clarification on when to cut and gman gave me the green light to cut today (10 day since seed down, 6 day since germination). Took it down to 1.5inches, some of the later germinating patches I didn't bother (back right)as wasn't yet at that height.



Clipping from the first chop, looks good it's gotten rid of a lot of the tenacity pink tips!


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

Brilliant! Great work :thumbup:


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## Matty316 (Apr 2, 2020)

Great work &#128077;&#128077;


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Excellent, congratz! You will love mowing that this summer :nod: :thumbup:


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Any stolons appearing yet? I'm assuming not as the plant will likely need to tiller and thicken up first but I'm intrigued to see how quickly it starts to spread.


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

bigbew said:


> Any stolons appearing yet? I'm assuming not as the plant will likely need to tiller and thicken up first but I'm intrigued to see how quickly it starts to spread.


+ 1 interested also.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

bigbew said:


> Any stolons appearing yet? I'm assuming not as the plant will likely need to tiller and thicken up first but I'm intrigued to see how quickly it starts to spread.


Nope none yet, the RPR literature suggests 3 months being the earliest, with full benefits being realised at 15 months+ coming out of winter.

I've just put 1kg in a bucket of water to soak for 3 days before overseeding a few bare spots at the weekend. Think my levelling lute scraped the seed out of some higher areas. looking back it probably wasn't the best idea to get the lute out after seeding! I just wanted it to be super smooth!


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Waited till the lawn was dry after the last water of the day at 5pm (I've backed off from the 7pm to avoid fungus) and applied amvista phyter, used to be known as triphos. It's a combination of humid acid, seaweed(kelp) and phosphate. I applied it as a foliar app without a NIS or AMS using my new teejet XR red nozzle.



Lawn is back up to 2 inches after a 1.5 inch HOC 2 days ago. Going to cut tomorrow at 1.3 inch (34mm)



Here's the particular trouble area. Left corner nearest the house I can't seem to get good coverage from the sprinklers. Going to overseed at the weekend with the soaked RPR seed


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

I love PRG... Instalawn!


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

Stuofsci02 said:


> I love PRG... Instalawn!


Yer that has come on really fast.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Mowed to 1.3inch / 32mm this evening


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

Looking very healthy!


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

More temptation to go RPR  You made me read the RPR brochures lol


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

13 days since germination.

Grass is growing about 0.35inch a day so mowing every 2 days now at 1.3inch once it hits the 2inch mark. Applied my first dose of nitrogen today in the form of 240g of urea at the 0.2lbN/ksqft rate dissolved in 7L of water in the backpack sprayer. I used an XR TeeJet nozzle and watered in but have now purchased a TTI nozzle for future soil based apps (urea/pre-ems) and keep the XR for PGR/FE/Humic/Kelp


Really starting to thicken up now and the bare patches seem to be filling in, this is through tufting though and not tilling yet.

Also over seeded on Saturday, no germination yet. Hopefully see some tomorrow day 4 like last time. We're now due 2 weeks of solid rain after the sunniest May on record.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

After the driest may on record (7.8mm of rain) there is atleast 2 weeks of daily rain.
I thought now would be a good time to implement my rainfall check for the automated sprinklers. I did it using webCoRE on smart things and connect to a local government rainfall sensor via their open API. Every day at 6am i check the last 24 hours of rain. if its less than 5mm i turn the sprinkler on for 5 minutes. (the turning off is in another automation).


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Wow, so you're in IT/Development I'm guessing? Thats taking the term lawn geek to a new level!


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

bigbew said:


> Wow, so you're in IT/Development I'm guessing? Thats taking the term lawn geek to a new level!


Yep software engineer, happy to help anyone else out if they've got a similar setup. It's the best way in my opinion, it's so customisable. I can tweak anything and everything to the smallest level of detail! And it's cost me a £20 smart things plug and a £50 hub (already had for other home automations). I suppose you'd also have to consider the £20 hunter PGV valve, but it could be any electrical valve, you just plug the supply into a smart things plug and you can then control on/off states on infinite scenarios. If anyone's got any better API suggestions for the UK I'd love to hear them, id like to add evapotranspiration into the equation and irrigate based on evapotranspiration minus rainfall to get me the required irrigation gap rather than assuming 5mm a day is the goal. (This is derived from 1.5inch a week as a measure I've seen argued against the 1inch a week rule)


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

I should also add, the RPR had already germinated, it actually germinated way quicker than the 4 days as I soaked it. I missed the pink tenacity tips as I guess my coverage right now is pretty weak. Green grass seedlings at about an inch. So impressed with this RPR seed, I just assumed it was the existing shoots when I first looked.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Been raining on and off all day, managed to get a mow in around lunch time after the ground was dry to touch. These last few days of rain have caused loads of new germination from the bare patch overseed I did about a week ago. I'm now not convinced it had germinated in my previous post. Got the mower back from it's service and sharpen today. The cut is so much better than the push reel! Moved the orange man back to half way now so we'll see how it holds up to the dog...


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

liamjones said:


> Been raining on and off all day, managed to get a mow in around lunch time after the ground was dry to touch. These last few days of rain have caused loads of new germination from the bare patch overseed I did about a week ago. I'm now not convinced it had germinated in my previous post. Got the mower back from it's service and sharpen today. The cut is so much better than the push reel! Moved the orange man back to half way now so we'll see how it holds up to the dog...


Damn that is looking good. Gotta improve that stripe game down the end, unless you were having a beer with the mow haha. What's the HOC now?

Hard work is truly paying off.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Double mow just for you @lfrancis 1.3inch


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Not sure if these yellow/white tips are new or a hang over from tenacity pink tips. I've just applied an extra(2nd since Reno) 0.2lbN/M as a few posts I've read suggest nitrogen deficiency. Would make sense, this grass is growing crazy. Mowing 0.7inch every 2 days. The Reno guide Suggests waiting 2 weeks for the 2nd app but I'm only at 6 days since the previous app. It's also rained a couple of inches In the last 3 days so might have washed the N out. The excess rain makes me worry about fungus but we'll see how we get on with just the N for now.


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

Some of those blades remind me of KBG - thickness seems more than usual Ryegrass. Or is it a camera illusion?

Maybe back off watering?


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

liamjones said:


> Double mow just for you @lfrancis 1.3inch


Fantastic, very jealous!


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

RCUK said:


> Some of those blades remind me of KBG - thickness seems more than usual Ryegrass. Or is it a camera illusion?
> 
> Maybe back off watering?


I'll get a picture wth some scale to it for you. Yeah sprinklers not been on for 3 days now, they check the rainfall and dont come on if more than 5mm in the last 24hr


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

Neat system &#128076; really nice way of controlling the sprinklers.


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## Richard Slater (Aug 25, 2017)

liamjones said:


> Not sure if these yellow/white tips are new or a hang over from tenacity pink tips. I've just applied an extra(2nd since Reno) 0.2lbN/M as a few posts I've read suggest nitrogen deficiency. Would make sense, this grass is growing crazy. Mowing 0.7inch every 2 days. The Reno guide Suggests waiting 2 weeks for the 2nd app but I'm only at 6 days since the previous app. It's also rained a couple of inches In the last 3 days so might have washed the N out. The excess rain makes me worry about fungus but we'll see how we get on with just the N for now.


You might want to look at the cut of your mower blades, some of those blades look shredded, could just be down to the damp conditions though.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Richard Slater said:


> liamjones said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure if these yellow/white tips are new or a hang over from tenacity pink tips. I've just applied an extra(2nd since Reno) 0.2lbN/M as a few posts I've read suggest nitrogen deficiency. Would make sense, this grass is growing crazy. Mowing 0.7inch every 2 days. The Reno guide Suggests waiting 2 weeks for the 2nd app but I'm only at 6 days since the previous app. It's also rained a couple of inches In the last 3 days so might have washed the N out. The excess rain makes me worry about fungus but we'll see how we get on with just the N for now.
> ...


Just had it sharpened. I did the paper test as soon as I got it back, it cut clean through the middle 12 inches but the outside 1 inches didn't. It had a brand new bottom blade too... not sure if there's any adjustment I can do to account for that


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## Richard Slater (Aug 25, 2017)

liamjones said:


> Richard Slater said:
> 
> 
> > You might want to look at the cut of your mower blades, some of those blades look shredded, could just be down to the damp conditions though.
> ...


Sounds like you have it covered then. I have days where the reel doesn't seem to be cutting well but it passes the paper test, I think it's something to do with high water content in the blades but never been able to definitively prove it.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Richard Slater said:


> Sounds like you have it covered then. I have days where the reel doesn't seem to be cutting well but it passes the paper test, I think it's something to do with high water content in the blades but never been able to definitively prove it.


I've got a manual reel mower I'm going to try out tonight to compare


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Was getting fed up with the bare patches, the overseed wasn't quite as precise as I thought so I've still got areas of no germination. Because I presoaked the seed I mixed it in with soil/sand mix and it made it really hard to see seed coverage. So, I'm overseeding again.

Raked all the bare patches and then added about 15 barrows of screened soil and levelled our with a lute. I then hand applied dry seed and rolled in. Finally sprayed tenacity now I'm at 21 DAG with a TTI teejet and watered in to get down to the soil.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Yesterday started seeing signs of germination, day 5, today's germination count is even better. 


@RCUK heres a picture as promised to give some kind of scale in a thicker patch (Top of garden)



And a thinner patch (bottom of garden)



And a picture after a mow this evening at 1 inch.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

I've also squared it all up and edged with timber gravel boards


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

Looks great! Coming in nice and thick. Like the shades


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

How is the lawn looking Liam?


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

Yes, let's see some single double or double double stripes?


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

@RCUK @lfrancis still at 1 inch HOC, really want to go down a setting on the mower, just with the heatwave next week I think I'll leave it for now as it is.


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## bigbew (Jan 23, 2020)

Looking great!


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

I'm also super keen to get down FAS and PGR, I've got some tenacity burnt tips throughout so definitely going to wait until they've grown out and then try and hold of until 60 DAG. I'm exactly 30 DAG today and I'm impressed how quickly its come along, it feels like it's been down longer than that. Lots of warm wet weather!

I'm using greenkeeperapp to track apps now.
0.2lbsN/M a week
60ml phyter every 3 weeks


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

@liamjones Looks fantastic and the stripes. Personally, I'd leave it at 1 inch to soak up the sun in the leaf.

Are you using liquid N?


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

RCUK said:


> @liamjones Looks fantastic and the stripes. Personally, I'd leave it at 1 inch to soak up the sun in the leaf.
> 
> Are you using liquid N?


Thanks, yeah soluble urea about 200g in 6L of water in my solo back back sprayer as a soil app with a TTI nozzle


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

That looks spot on mate! How far it's grown in such a short time. Dead impressed with the RPR mix there.

I agree I'd keep it around 1 HOC ready for The heat. I don't know if wetting agent might help? Although to be fair, the amount of rain we've had recently I can't see it being an issue.

I'm trying to find a dry spell to put my PGR and wetting agent down.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Couldn't wait any longer, I dropped FAS and PGR yesterday. Here's a photo before



And the day after (today).



I feel like the colour is definitely more uniform. But not massively darker.
Lots of dog burn but it is starting to repair itself. I've also had to make a patch repair to the very bottom, when renovating we dug a big hole to burry a tree stump, and it's started to sink, so I cut out the turf, raised with topsoil then returfed. Kinda thinking I should of done that before PGR, but oh well!


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## Richard Slater (Aug 25, 2017)

Very nice. Something to bear in mind with that submerged tree trunk, rotting wood uses nitrogen from the soil as it rots before eventually being broken down enough to start releasing the nitrogen again. So short term you might need to pay extra attention to nutrients in that spot, long term it will look after itself albeit continue to sink.


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

I dropped PGR on my lawn last week, have noticed a remarkable change in top growth and less clippers are taken per cut.

I'm curious about the dog spots and your irrigation, wonder if it's possible to dilute them each day (without causing shallow roots).


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Richard Slater said:


> Very nice. Something to bear in mind with that submerged tree trunk, rotting wood uses nitrogen from the soil as it rots before eventually being broken down enough to start releasing the nitrogen again. So short term you might need to pay extra attention to nutrients in that spot, long term it will look after itself albeit continue to sink.


Thanks for this I never knew!


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

lfrancis said:


> I dropped PGR on my lawn last week, have noticed a remarkable change in top growth and less clippers are taken per cut.
> 
> I'm curious about the dog spots and your irrigation, wonder if it's possible to dilute them each day (without causing shallow roots).


I'm watering every morning at 6am for up to 15 mins (5mm). Apparently removing nitrogen content from water helps so I'm using RODI water now for the dog. Will be interesting to see if this helps.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Reduced HOC to 19mm now. I think this is going to be a real interesting test of the RPR's spreading capability to fill back in the dog patches.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Do you have more seed? Throw them in those spots too.


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

Agree with @g-man, RPR spreading capability will probably take a few months to establish.

I usually stay on top of those spots by lightly raking the dead grass, small handful of top soil and seed.

Prefer the look at lower HOC :thumbup:


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

Have to say... I like that shed.


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## lfrancis (Jun 2, 2018)

How's it looking @liamjones ?


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## Essexlawn (Oct 27, 2020)

> waited till the lawn was dry after the last water of the day at 5pm (I've backed off from the 7pm to avoid fungus) and applied amvista phyter, used to be known as triphos. It's a combination of humid acid, seaweed(kelp) and phosphate. I applied it as a foliar app without a NIS or AMS using my new teejet XR red nozzle.


Wanted to try out Amvista Phyter product - would you recommend? Did you see a noticeable difference from using it?


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Hi, been away for a while and the RPR is looking in a sorry way at the moment after a very late scalp and level last year



Now spring is upon us and the snow is mostly gone ive been having a look at BSPB's 2021 seed ratings and new mixes.

Whilst the Barenbrug RPR i had last year was good, the 'RPR' spreading properties of it i never really witnessed. For that reason, i'ver decided to ignore the creeping rye and focus on the top of the sport category (this suits my requirements for traffic and HOC)



I've decided to go with ProSelect 1 premium pitch. 33.5% europitch, 25% eurodiamond, 25% eurocordus, 16.5% eurosport.

I'll be using this in an overseed planned for the start of march. Need to do a bit more levelling too as parts (particularaly where the tree is burried) have sunk over winter.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Essexlawn said:


> > waited till the lawn was dry after the last water of the day at 5pm (I've backed off from the 7pm to avoid fungus) and applied amvista phyter, used to be known as triphos. It's a combination of humid acid, seaweed(kelp) and phosphate. I applied it as a foliar app without a NIS or AMS using my new teejet XR red nozzle.
> 
> 
> Wanted to try out Amvista Phyter product - would you recommend? Did you see a noticeable difference from using it?


For the cost of it, i thought why not, i unfortunately dont really have anything to compare against, it certainly caused no harm (as far as i can tell)


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

Also had a soil test end of season and compared to when the lawn was first sown, will add back in the conumed P and K with seed down start of march.


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## RCUK (Jul 16, 2018)

Hi, doesn't look too bad for late winter.

If you are looking to change to those varieties, they are quite a bit lighter in colour, will it mix well with the RPR?.

If you haven't yet purchased, I can recommend talking to Hurrells Seed, they sold me CSI Corsica (CSI RYE in the US) which is a little darker than the RPR but finer leaf, low growing and creeping. It isn't in the BSPB list as they didn't pay for testing in the UK but did rank 1 in the German ryegrass list and is used in football stadiums there. They sell it as a straight or mixed. They do have a mix with CSI Corsica and a few of the euro types if you are set on those. Or another variety to mix with is Topgun from Hurrells, speak to Dan he helped me. Reasonably priced and quick service.

See my renovation journal to see how it looks if interested.


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

RCUK said:


> Hi, doesn't look too bad for late winter.
> 
> If you are looking to change to those varieties, they are quite a bit lighter in colour, will it mix well with the RPR?.
> 
> ...


Interesting, no I haven't pulled the trigger yet. Will check them out thanks


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## liamjones (Apr 29, 2020)

I kept going round in circles on what seed to go for, so in the end the only simple option was to stick to what I know. RPR sport. 


Slightly different mix to last year



Thinking of getting it down this weekend weather seems to be pretty nice over the next few weeks.


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