# Milorganite hype



## Gregau33

I know a lot of people on YouTube rave about how much they love Milorganite. I have tried it many many times, and I never get that great of results. I have zoysia turf (live in NW FL) and it just really doesn't respond as much as when I use a synthetic fertilizer (that contains slow release granules).

I know Milorganite really seems to help out a lot of folks, but it seems like a lot of that turf is cool season grasses. Is it not as effective on warm season turf? Plus the stuff really smells bad the first few days after it is put down and is quite pricey when compared to synthetics. Am I missing something???


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## TigerinFL

it makes my el toro green up nicely. it doesn't last but maybe a month or so but it does work.

my next adventure is going to be humic.


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## Grass Whisper

Interesting that you posted this because I was thinking of trying that with my lawn.

I normaly use 18-0-18 from Lesco now SiteOne. Im ready for the second application.

-Empire Zoysia down about 6 years now....


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## Thor865

I use milorganite religiously. Have only used synthetic once. No complaints here. My Bermuda loves it. Just put down another 100lbs today of 6-2-0 4% Fe


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## Gregau33

Thor865 said:


> I use milorganite religiously. Have only used synthetic once. No complaints here. My Bermuda loves it. Just put down another 100lbs today of 6-2-0 4% Fe


Strange... Mine does that with synthetics but not with the Milo.


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## Thor865

Gregau33 said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I use milorganite religiously. Have only used synthetic once. No complaints here. My Bermuda loves it. Just put down another 100lbs today of 6-2-0 4% Fe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Strange... Mine does that with synthetics but not with the Milo.
Click to expand...

What rate are you using?


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## Ware

I've never had any trouble getting the results I expect with Milorganite, but I know @Mightyquinn was disappointed when he tried it.


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## Gregau33

@Thor865 I use whatever the bag recommends. My front section of my yard is right at 2,500 Sq ft, so that section gets a whole bag. Should I try going heavier?


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## rhanna

I don't really get it either. I don't like the smell for days. I had better results with purely organic lawn food 10-0-2.

I think at the end of the day you just have to throw down what works for you.


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## Colonel K0rn

I just put down 5 bags in my lot, and enjoyed every minute of it.

Smells like Success!


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## Tellycoleman

I can't stand the smell. 
However I might have to transition if I can't find any other greens grade fertilizer. Lawn is to thick now.
I have a lot of yard so it's not economical at all


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## rhanna

Tellycoleman said:


> I can't stand the smell.
> However I might have to transition if I can't find any other greens grade fertilizer. Lawn is to thick now.
> I have a lot of yard so it's not economical at all


Have you been to ewing irrigation in town. I've bought some fertilizer from them but I don't know if they have greens grade


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## Tellycoleman

No never heard of them. I'll give them a call. Thanks.


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## rhanna

Tellycoleman said:


> No never heard of them. I'll give them a call. Thanks.


I bought some greentrx from them for about $20, I was looking for screaming green. I think they are mainly contractor irrigation but I've bought pre emergent granular at a good price from them.


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## 95mmrenegade

How often are milo guys putting down potash?


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## Delmarva Keith

Gregau33 said:


> I know a lot of people on YouTube rave about how much they love Milorganite. I have tried it many many times, and I never get that great of results. I have zoysia turf (live in NW FL) and it just really doesn't respond as much as when I use a synthetic fertilizer (that contains slow release granules).
> 
> I know Milorganite really seems to help out a lot of folks, but it seems like a lot of that turf is cool season grasses. Is it not as effective on warm season turf? Plus the stuff really smells bad the first few days after it is put down and is quite pricey when compared to synthetics. Am I missing something???


You're not missing anything. There's two general ways to go about managing plants: 1. throw down popularly hyped miracle products (usually in ever increasing quantity - more must be better, right?); results based on dumb luck that the products supply what the plants swimming in the stuff actually need; requires some work and a lot of money to apply it all, but virtually zero thought.

2. Determine what is lacking and supply it; results proven through many decades of scientific research and actual field testing; requires less work and lower cost, but a lot of planning and thought.

To many in the Milorganite cult, synthetic fert, even slow release, is the devil that will eventually kill all living things on earth, and most certainly your lawn. Of course, many, many pounds of heat processed microbe carcasses with zero potassium, thrown down as heavily as can be afforded, are our salvation.

Do soil testing, observe the turf health, apply what it needs when it needs it. You will get much better results.


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## Gregau33

@Delmarva Keith I agree. I was just comparing my results with the two... Milo vs synthetic. I have had great results with my synthetics compared to Milo. All was put out at the correct rate. I just didn't get the results that most people seem to get and was wondering if they apply a lot more than what label recommends? My soil test came back pretty good, just a little low in PH


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## tnlynch81

Have you tried doing a Milo synthetic blend? I try to put down 1lbN using about half Milo and half AMS. The AMS kickstarts it, and Milo brings it home. I may be in the minority but I LOVE the smell. I get my Milo for $3 a bag in the fall so it is not as pricey as you would think.


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## Redtenchu

rhanna said:


> I think at the end of the day you just have to throw down what works for you.


+1

People can say and use what they want, but some of the best looking warm and cool season lawns on this site are fertilized with Milorganite. I wouldn't call that hype, I'd call it results.


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## Delmarva Keith

Redtenchu said:


> rhanna said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think at the end of the day you just have to throw down what works for you.
> 
> 
> 
> +1
> 
> People can say and use what they want, but some of the best looking warm and cool season lawns on this site are fertilized with Milorganite. I wouldn't call that hype, I'd call it results.
Click to expand...

If that's all they throw down, I'd call it dumb luck. :mrgreen:

The place where I grew up (far North of here) had an incredible lawn that never saw fert or even supplemental water. Of course, the house was built on a former farm field with enough OM and manure in the soil to last until the sun goes supernova. :nod: I could have put anything I wanted on it and everyone would call that the next miracle product.

If the native soil has enough naturally ocurring K and not excessive P, have at it with as much Milorganite as you want. :thumbup:


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## Ridgerunner

For those using Milorganite: what are you using for a potassium source? Do you use a soil test to monitor soil P and K levels? If so, what have you observed?


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## Ware




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## Ridgerunner

@Ware I only follow a couple of warm season lawn journals regularly, but your's is one.
I know you are doing some level correction based on a soil test. Prior to that were you applying a potassium supplement to your lawn? I think we both used the greens grade Milo exclussively. Do you recall if the guaranteed analysis for your Milo has always been 6-2-0? Whereas, until 2 years ago, my locally available greens grade was 6-4-0. In addition to the Milo, I regularly applied triple NPK which provided potassium. It also provided P and between the two, I've ended up with enough P in the soil to sustain the turf needs until the end of time.


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## Ware

Ridgerunner said:


> @Ware I only follow a couple of warm season lawn journals regularly, but your's is one.
> I know you are doing some level correction based on a soil test. Prior to that were you applying a potassium supplement to your lawn? I think we both used the greens grade Milo exclussively. Do you recall if the guaranteed analysis for your Milo has always been 6-2-0? Whereas, until 2 years ago, my locally available greens grade was 6-4-0. In addition to the Milo, I regularly applied triple NPK which provided potassium. It also provided P and between the two, I've ended up with enough P in the soil to sustain the turf needs until the end of time.


Over the last few seasons I have used mostly Milorganite, but also some 24-0-5 and 12-6-6. I boosted the K with the Sulfate of Potash this year after I got my soil test results back. I don't recall the timing of changes in the Milorganite analysis, but you observation sounds familiar.

I can't get over how polarizing the stuff is - everybody likes what they like. :lol:


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## rhanna

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great product. 
Very error proof. 
I like the low NPK so you can throw down a lot and spread it very evenly. 
I like the iron source that won't stain your driveway.

I don't like the normal price 13 per bag and I don't like the smell. To some it smells like success but to me it smells like crap lol.


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## dfw_pilot

rhanna said:


> Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great product.
> Very error proof.
> I like the low NPK so you can throw down a lot and spread it very evenly.
> I like the iron source that won't stain your driveway.


I agree - I think it's perfect in just about every way. I even like the smell. You can't really put too much out, it doesn't burn, it's slow release, etc. I even drop some into the hole where I plant a tree or bush. The cost is the only thing that holds me back.


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## daviddsims

@Ware where did you get that potassium at? I called all over town today and nobody has 0-0-50.


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## Ware

daviddsims said:


> Ware where did you get that potassium at? I called all over town today and nobody has 0-0-50.


At a Winfield.


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## raymond

rhanna said:


> Tellycoleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> No never heard of them. I'll give them a call. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> I bought some greentrx from them for about $20, I was looking for screaming green. I think they are mainly contractor irrigation but I've bought pre emergent granular at a good price from them.
Click to expand...

Just bought the same Friday also. Glad to see someone else post this. Greentrx is AVAILABLE (aka milo is sold out everywhere) and COST EFFECTIVE (probably 1/2 price of milo app).

I love milo but the hype, price, and lack of availability are starting to bug me.


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## TigerinFL

so we now have hoarders of Milo huh?


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## Ridgerunner

TigerinFL said:


> so we now have hoarders of Milo huh?


Milorganite Constipation?


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## wardconnor

I prefer synthetic fert.


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## Redtenchu

Ridgerunner said:


> TigerinFL said:
> 
> 
> 
> so we now have hoarders of Milo huh?
> 
> 
> 
> Milorganite Constipation?
Click to expand...

 :lol:


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## pennstater2005

wardconnor said:


> I prefer synthetic fert.


As I walk around in my Milorganite shirt that's the direction I'm headed.


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## Colonel K0rn

I don't have a Milo shortage at my house


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## pennstater2005

Colonel K0rn said:


> I don't have a Milo shortage at my house


How's the van smell :lol:


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## raymond

Colonel K0rn said:


> I don't have a Milo shortage at my house


So you're the reason there is no milo in Atlanta... :lol:


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## Colonel K0rn

@pennstater2005 it was fine after I got it out. Now the shed is another thing  I have to say one bag smells bad, but when you have multiple bags in an area, it does smell like blueberries. @raymond I actually picked up these bags last Fall at the Home Depot in Bluffton, SC when WalMart was advertising them at $5/bag. Home Depot price matched, and I got a 10% military discount as well, so I have had those bags in my shed for the past 2 seasons. I put out 4 bags on Friday.


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## raymond

Colonel K0rn said:


> @pennstater2005 it was fine after I got it out. Now the shed is another thing  I have to say one bag smells bad, but when you have multiple bags in an area, it does smell like blueberries. @raymond I actually picked up these bags last Fall at the Home Depot in Bluffton, SC when WalMart was advertising them at $5/bag. Home Depot price matched, and I got a 10% military discount as well, so I have had those bags in my shed for the past 2 seasons. I put out 4 bags on Friday.


Teasing of course - smart of you to stock up and get them for a deal. I've starting trying new products (i.e. GreenTRX from Ewing) in Milo's place. We'll see how it does.


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## Colonel K0rn

@raymond I've used some Lesco products in the past that had biosolids in them, and I'm pretty sure they were Milorganite.


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## jonthepain

raymond said:


> rhanna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tellycoleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> No never heard of them. I'll give them a call. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> I bought some greentrx from them for about $20, I was looking for screaming green. I think they are mainly contractor irrigation but I've bought pre emergent granular at a good price from them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just bought the same Friday also. Glad to see someone else post this. Greentrx is AVAILABLE (aka milo is sold out everywhere) and COST EFFECTIVE (probably 1/2 price of milo app).
> 
> I love milo but the hype, price, and lack of availability are starting to bug me.
Click to expand...

We are getting excellent results from greentrx.


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## pintail45

95mmrenegade said:


> How often are milo guys putting down potash?


Whenever the soil tests say it needs it, which is pretty much every time on the lawns I treat.


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## Ral1121

Decided to give greentrx a try. Just picked up a couple bags from Ewing's


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## Paulsprimecuts

I guess if you like to put out ALOT of fertilizer often it's great.


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## Greendoc

Paulsprimecuts said:


> I guess if you like to put out ALOT of fertilizer often it's great.


and if your neighbors will forgive you for making the neighborhood smell like they are living next to a wastewater plant all summer long.


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## rhanna

Ral1121 said:


> Decided to give greentrx a try. Just picked up a couple bags from Ewing's


Just an FYI, it "may" stain concrete. I treat it like it will. 
When you open it up it smells similar to milo but it doesn't last


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## Ral1121

rhanna said:


> Ral1121 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Decided to give greentrx a try. Just picked up a couple bags from Ewing's
> 
> 
> 
> Just an FYI, it "may" stain concrete. I treat it like it will.
> When you open it up it smells similar to milo but it doesn't last
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip


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## Ware

Paulsprimecuts said:


> I guess if you like to put out ALOT of fertilizer often it's great.


PPC! Welcome to TLF! :thumbsup:

Subscribe to Paul - we gotta get his sub count up. :bandit:


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## pennstater2005

When I Google greentrx not much comes up. Can someone provide a link?


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## jonthepain

Here you go

http://www.anuviaplantnutrients.com/product/professional-turf/

Yes it does stain concrete.


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## Paulsprimecuts

Greendoc said:


> Paulsprimecuts said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess if you like to put out ALOT of fertilizer often it's great.
> 
> 
> 
> and if your neighbors will forgive you for making the neighborhood smell like they are living next to a wastewater plant all summer long.
Click to expand...

Oh wow you are here too ! That is true 
I don't use it because of how much you have to handle and the price but I have been using Anuiva this season and it is working for me


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## Paulsprimecuts

Ware said:


> Paulsprimecuts said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess if you like to put out ALOT of fertilizer often it's great.
> 
> 
> 
> PPC! Welcome to TLF! :thumbsup:
> 
> Subscribe to Paul - we gotta get his sub count up. :bandit:
Click to expand...

That is very cool ! You didn't have to do that but thanks!


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## Lawn_newbie

Colonel K0rn said:


> @raymond I've used some Lesco products in the past that had biosolids in them, and I'm pretty sure they were Milorganite.


Do you know which Lesco products used biosolids?


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## Colonel K0rn

Paulsprimecuts said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulsprimecuts said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess if you like to put out ALOT of fertilizer often it's great.
> 
> 
> 
> PPC! Welcome to TLF! :thumbsup:
> 
> Subscribe to Paul - we gotta get his sub count up. :bandit:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is very cool ! You didn't have to do that but thanks!
Click to expand...

Done! I've laughed more in the past hour at your comments and videos than I have in a long time.


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## Paulsprimecuts

There is an hour of your life you ain't getting back&#128514;thanks CC


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## Killmeh

Do you have to water in greentrx?


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## pennstater2005

jonthepain said:


> Here you go
> 
> http://www.anuviaplantnutrients.com/product/professional-turf/
> 
> Yes it does stain concrete.


Thanks Jon. Nothing near me though to be able to purchase it.


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## jonthepain

You're welcome. We were using and getting good results from screamin green but switched to greentrx for various reasons. Both work very well but we are sticking with greentrx for now. At least until grassfactor's product comes out :thumbup:


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## jonthepain

Killmeh said:


> Do you have to water in greentrx?


It doesn't volatilize so no, but I'm sure it would be useful to do so. About half of our clients don't have irrigation, and we are still seeing very good response.


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## RandyMan

Colonel K0rn said:


> I don't have a Milo shortage at my house


You could probaly flip them on ebay/craigslist for $40-$50 per bag lol


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## SGrabs33

jonthepain said:


> Killmeh said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have to water in greentrx?
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't volatilize so no, but I'm sure it would be useful to do so. About half of our clients don't have irrigation, and we are still seeing very good response.
Click to expand...

@jonthepain Glad to know this product is working well for you locally. I picked some up from Ewing this morning. What rate do you usually use?


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## jonthepain

1 lb N / 1000 bermuda
1/2 lb N / 1000 zoysia

As per NC State recommendations for our area this time of year

btw we are in Raleigh


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## jonthepain

We try to hit our lawns every 4 weeks, but our other business has been growing so fast that it was 6 weeks last round, and the lawns still looked great.

My daughter and I couldn't be happier.


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## Bunnysarefat

As I've said on here before, I've found my St Augustine lawn reponded fantastically to the Milo blend with 4% iron. I never really have it a chance on the bermuda because the cost just got to be too much bc that lawn is much larger. But I just don't see the benefit of using Milo on anything other than St. Augustine, other than to just enhance soil microbe activity.

However, there is so much uncertainty of the contents of the feed stock that it doesn't make sense to me. If the whole point is to be more natural or pseudo-organic, Milo is not that IMO. It comes from wastewater biosolids, and I'm not trying to crash milo's stock or anything but there's no telling what in it. In my career field I'm well aware of the kind of stuff that collects in those biosolids that's is not removed in the process. Hundreds of chemicals and pharmaceuticals that can't be removed in the processes that are used at those plants. Like around here we have a big problem with chromium 6 and some other nasty stuff that accumulates in these biosolids. So these things could be affecting the microbes in the soil any number of ways. No way to know.

Anyways, my point being, if another company came along and used a feed stock that a little cleaner I think it would be better. And more iron...


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## Stro3579

Gregau33 said:


> @Delmarva Keith I agree. I was just comparing my results with the two... Milo vs synthetic. I have had great results with my synthetics compared to Milo. All was put out at the correct rate. I just didn't get the results that most people seem to get and was wondering if they apply a lot more than what label recommends? My soil test came back pretty good, just a little low in PH


I have always had the same issue with Milo. I prefer synthetic. Cost less and I have had better results with my lawn.


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## Tellycoleman

Colonel K0rn said:


> I don't have a Milo shortage at my house


Problem with milo and a big yard is that would last me 1 .5 months


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## Cory

Tellycoleman said:


> Colonel K0rn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have a Milo shortage at my house
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Problem with milo and a big yard is that would last me 1 .5 months
Click to expand...

That's only one app for me with 2.5 bags left over. And that much would cost me about $170, vs the $14 I pay per app with 34-0-0. Cost makes it unreasonable for me.


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## pennstater2005

Cory said:


> Tellycoleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colonel K0rn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have a Milo shortage at my house
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Problem with milo and a big yard is that would last me 1 .5 months
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's only one app for me with 2.5 bags left over. And that much would cost me about $170, vs the $14 I pay per app with 34-0-0. Cost makes it unreasonable for me.
Click to expand...

Same here. 15k has made it unaffordable when applied at bag rate.


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## jonthepain

This is why i like the blended products like SG, greentrx, and especially the product that grassfactor is working on. I get the synergy of several different nutrient sources without the exorbitant price (and controversial ingredients) of milo.

Greentrx even has some HA in it, which i believe is beneficial.

Still costs more than 46-0-0, 32-0-5 etc but well worth it imo.


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## Txmx583

I love Milo on my tiff419!!!! Responds amazingly well and gets super dark green. I put down a bag a month and have stopped using synthetic for over a year now.


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## Colonel K0rn

@Tellycoleman @Cory I figure I've been putting more than enough goodness down with the GCF products, and supplementing with the Milo. Last Friday was the first application, as the temps had gotten warm enough, IMO, to have some decent microbial activity going on to warrant putting it out. I only threw out 4 bags for the whole lot. According to GreenKeeperApp, I'm at 12.02 #N/M for this year. I might have gotten a little silly this year :wacko: . Going the "spoon feeding" route seems to be working out better via foliar applications with urea. Grass isn't flushing with growth as much, which is making it easier to cut, but I'm still getting a lot of clippings even when mowing every 2 days. This heat is a killer!


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## Tellycoleman

Colonel K0rn said:


> @Tellycoleman @Cory I figure I've been putting more than enough goodness down with the GCF products, and supplementing with the Milo. Last Friday was the first application, as the temps had gotten warm enough, IMO, to have some decent microbial activity going on to warrant putting it out. I only threw out 4 bags for the whole lot. According to GreenKeeperApp, I'm at 12.02 #N/M for this year. I might have gotten a little silly this year :wacko: . Going the "spoon feeding" route seems to be working out better via foliar applications with urea. Grass isn't flushing with growth as much, which is making it easier to cut, but I'm still getting a lot of clippings even when mowing every 2 days. This heat is a killer!


You should have seen me Wednesday when it was cloudy. I got out the lawnmower so quick because it wasnt hot. Lawn didnt even need a cut but i couldnt let the low 80's and nice wind go to waiste


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## Tellycoleman

raymond said:


> rhanna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tellycoleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> No never heard of them. I'll give them a call. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> I bought some greentrx from them for about $20, I was looking for screaming green. I think they are mainly contractor irrigation but I've bought pre emergent granular at a good price from them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just bought the same Friday also. Glad to see someone else post this. Greentrx is AVAILABLE (aka milo is sold out everywhere) and COST EFFECTIVE (probably 1/2 price of milo app).
> 
> I love milo but the hype, price, and lack of availability are starting to bug me.
Click to expand...

I just bought some greentrx 16-1-2 with iron. The pril is very very small. We will see how it goes


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## rhanna

How much did you pay per bag


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## Dico112lr4

Colonel K0rn said:


> @Tellycoleman @Cory I figure I've been putting more than enough goodness down with the GCF products, and supplementing with the Milo. Last Friday was the first application, as the temps had gotten warm enough, IMO, to have some decent microbial activity going on to warrant putting it out. I only threw out 4 bags for the whole lot. According to GreenKeeperApp, I'm at 12.02 #N/M for this year. I might have gotten a little silly this year :wacko: . Going the "spoon feeding" route seems to be working out better via foliar applications with urea. Grass isn't flushing with growth as much, which is making it easier to cut, but I'm still getting a lot of clippings even when mowing every 2 days. This heat is a killer!


I was on course to put down 7-8 #N/M by the end of summer and worried I was going overboard. Sounds like I need to step up my game. Haha


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## Ral1121

@rhanna

I know I'm my area I paid 21 a bag for greentrx

Next time I go to Ewing's they have another fert that is a replacement for screaming green that goes for 13 a bag. My Ewing's does not carry screaming green anymore.


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## jonthepain

I'd be interested to know what their $13 SG replacement is. That's a very good deal if it's comparable.


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## Ral1121

@jonthepain

This is it. I found it online. $13 a bag

https://www.ewingirrigation.com/bcf-16-2-3-45-uflexx-2fe-bioso


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## jonthepain

thanks for finding that, Ral

hmmm. uflexx + 3% sludge.

not exactly a replacement for SG, but somewhat close. Not anywhere in the same ballpark as greentrx.

I'm sure it'll green up bermudagrass for a while, and at a reasonable price.

I'll be sticking with the greentrx for now, for our granular rounds. very happy with it.


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## samjonester

Any legitimacy to this experiment?

https://youtu.be/YCi2C9Tm8Uk


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## Cory

samjonester said:


> Any legitimacy to this experiment?


Don't think he would lie about it.


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## samjonester

Cory said:


> samjonester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any legitimacy to this experiment?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't think he would lie about it.
Click to expand...

I agree! Pete's content always seems to come from a good place. Intention doesn't always mean accuracy, though.

Seems like a great product from that side by side comparison.


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## Delmarva Keith

samjonester said:


> Any legitimacy to this experiment?


Yes. http://www.golfcourseindustry.com/article/protective-potassium-compass-minerals/


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## Tellycoleman

rhanna said:


> How much did you pay per bag


I paid about $20 a bag almost $21
Greentrx has a smell to it. But not unpleasant. And the bag doesn't leak the odor. So it won't make your garage smell like (blueberries)


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## rhanna

Tellycoleman said:


> rhanna said:
> 
> 
> 
> How much did you pay per bag
> 
> 
> 
> I paid about $20 a bag almost $21
> Greentrx has a smell to it. But not unpleasant. And the bag doesn't leak the odor. So it won't make your garage smell like (blueberries)
Click to expand...

I think that's what I paid, if you go online ewingirrigation I think it's 30. 
I did notice the smell when I opened the bag and I had it in my garage a couple weeks before.


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## CenlaLowell

Ive used Milo ,but the cost is unaffordable on a 20k lawn. The bag says to only apply on Easter, memorial day, 4th of July and labor day. I see people on this forum they apply once a month does this not produce top growth which should lead to thatch?


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## dfw_pilot

CenlaLowell said:


> Ive used Milo ,but the cost is unaffordable on a 20k lawn. The bag says to only apply on Easter, memorial day, 4th of July and labor day. I see people on this forum they apply once a month does this not produce top growth which should lead to thatch?


The instructions are pretty meaningless. And that goes for any fertilizer, really. What you want to do is determine how much N you want to put out, then figure out how much N is in the bag, and spread it at that rate.


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## Greendoc

CenlaLowell said:


> Ive used Milo ,but the cost is unaffordable on a 20k lawn. The bag says to only apply on Easter, memorial day, 4th of July and labor day. I see people on this forum they apply once a month does this not produce top growth which should lead to thatch?


It should not. but the rates needed to apply meaningful amounts of nutrients will result in a layer of the Milorganite on the ground. As if you mulched or topdressed the lawn with it. Matt @thegrassfactor did a whiteboard presentation on why he does not use Milorganite. I do not use Milorganite either. I rather spoon feed with fertilizer sources with a predictable effect in regards to when effects show and how long they last.


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## jonthepain

> Matt @thegrassfactor did a whiteboard presentation on why he does not use Milorganite. I do not use Milorganite either.


+1


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## Cory

Went to Ewing in Garner NC today, bought the GeenTRX, $21 a bag, applied it, smells like the zoo :lol: I can handle the smell much better than milo and I like prill size. Some of the prills on the synthetic I use are too big to go down into the canopy, had a lot of burn spots last time I used it so the greentrx is much better. :thumbup:


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## jonthepain

I think you'll like the results also, especially if we get that rain they are predicting for tonight.


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## trc

Also picked up a bag of greentrx today at Ewing in Marietta. Havent been thrilled with milo lately so thanks for the rec @jonthepain. One 50lb bag should get me through the rest of the year.


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## jonthepain

You're welcome

Hope it works as well for you as it has for us.


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## Cory

@jonthepain hope we do everything is getting crispy around here


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## jonthepain

My personal centipede is getting crunchy

I just looked at the radar, and it looks like all hell broke loose in Greensboro, and it's coming our way.

I live on a hill in the little foot of Chatham County, and we have a view of everything that comes in from the west. It's pretty cool.


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## Colonel K0rn

samjonester said:


> Any legitimacy to this experiment?


If Pete is doing it, you can take the results to the bank.


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## iFisch3224

raymond said:


> rhanna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tellycoleman said:
> 
> 
> 
> No never heard of them. I'll give them a call. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> I bought some greentrx from them for about $20, I was looking for screaming green. I think they are mainly contractor irrigation but I've bought pre emergent granular at a good price from them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just bought the same Friday also. Glad to see someone else post this. Greentrx is AVAILABLE (aka milo is sold out everywhere) and COST EFFECTIVE (probably 1/2 price of milo app).
> 
> I love milo but the hype, price, and lack of availability are starting to bug me.
Click to expand...

Where did you pick up greentrx from? What are the application rates per 1k? They "supposedly" have a manufacturing facility 9 miles from my house, so I'm going to contact them on Monday.

I'm getting Milo locally for $9.xx and change per 36# bag @ Ace Hardware. Each bag is enough for an application on my size yard.


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## raymond

iFisch3224 said:


> raymond said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhanna said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bought some greentrx from them for about $20, I was looking for screaming green. I think they are mainly contractor irrigation but I've bought pre emergent granular at a good price from them.
> 
> 
> 
> Just bought the same Friday also. Glad to see someone else post this. Greentrx is AVAILABLE (aka milo is sold out everywhere) and COST EFFECTIVE (probably 1/2 price of milo app).
> 
> I love milo but the hype, price, and lack of availability are starting to bug me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did you pick up greentrx from? What are the application rates per 1k? They "supposedly" have a manufacturing facility 9 miles from my house, so I'm going to contact them on Monday.
> 
> I'm getting Milo locally for $9.xx and change per 36# bag @ Ace Hardware. Each bag is enough for an application on my size yard.
Click to expand...

Ewing


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## Cory

iFisch3224 said:


> What are the application rates per 1k?


For 1 lbs N/1k sqft you would need 6.2 lbs
For .75 lbs N/1k you would need 4.68 lbs 
For .5 lbs N/1k you would need 3.125 lbs

Cost is $20.82 + tax for a 50lbs bag at my Ewing. 
If you are using one bag milo then you would need 15.5 lbs greentrx. You would get 3 apps at your equivalent rate of milo and would cost roughly $7 per app.

Not gonna save you a lot of money if you're paying $9 a bag for milo but the quality of the fertilizer is so much better in my opinion.


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## 95mmrenegade

From Matts' @thegrassfactor whiteboard on milorganite, would milo be a good fertalizer for a low CEC soil? I am thinking not. Thoughts?


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## Delmarva Keith

95mmrenegade said:


> From Matts' @thegrassfactor whiteboard on milorganite, would milo be a good fertalizer for a low CEC soil? I am thinking not. Thoughts?


I can only offer opinion, not experience because Milorganite is too, er, rich for my blood ($$$).

Low CEC soil is going to have fewer exchange sites for cationic nutrient ions and also tends to have excessive drainage. Either frequent low dose apps of fert or a very slow release fert are needed. Being so slow release, Milo would seem to be perfect for that, except for lack of K. Soil with low CEC and excessive drainage is going to tend to have K issues, so that is bad. K is cationic but also water soluble. It is going to tend to leach out of low CEC soils.

If Milorganite were cheaper I would probably use it on occasion, supplemented with K, and keep an eye on excessive P.


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## 95mmrenegade

2 months ago I made the change from Milo to a balanced fert and within 21 days I noticed a difference in the turf quality. After getting soil tested and doing some research, I feel like that for soils in my area, spoon feeding every 7-15 days is probably the best method. I have noticed some weird things on Milo with heavy rains, not sure if it's just a coincidence. From what I have read, I am starting to believe that a 4-1-3 ratio product, spoon fed, would give the best results in my neck of the woods that had low cec, low P and low K.


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## thegrassfactor

95mmrenegade said:


> From Matts' @thegrassfactor whiteboard on milorganite, would milo be a good fertalizer for a low CEC soil? I am thinking not. Thoughts?


any carbon base(including organics) products will be good for a low cec soil


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## dtillman5

Picked up bag of GreenTRX for a good price this morning. $21.15 at Ewing.


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## krubs

Got my first spreader and have been waiting at least a month to find this stuff in stores. I've checked walmart, lowes, HD, all have been OOS for the past month.. Pretty frustrating


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## iFisch3224

krubs said:


> Got my first spreader and have been waiting at least a month to find this stuff in stores. I've checked walmart, lowes, HD, all have been OOS for the past month.. Pretty frustrating


I feel for ya guys. I live in a relatively small town (15,000 or so) and Ace, Lowes, HD, Walmart all have them. Ace is the cheapest @ $10.37/bag.

Spring - 2 bags
Summer - 1 bag 
Fall - 2 bags

Spoon feed Feature 6-0-0 about every ~3 weeks at 1/2 dose.


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## 95mmrenegade

Delmarva Keith said:


> 95mmrenegade said:
> 
> 
> 
> From Matts' @thegrassfactor whiteboard on milorganite, would milo be a good fertalizer for a low CEC soil? I am thinking not. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> I can only offer opinion, not experience because Milorganite is too, er, rich for my blood ($$$).
> 
> Low CEC soil is going to have fewer exchange sites for cationic nutrient ions and also tends to have excessive drainage. Either frequent low dose apps of fert or a very slow release fert are needed. Being so slow release, Milo would seem to be perfect for that, except for lack of K. Soil with low CEC and excessive drainage is going to tend to have K issues, so that is bad. K is cationic but also water soluble. It is going to tend to leach out of low CEC soils.
> 
> If Milorganite were cheaper I would probably use it on occasion, supplemented with K, and keep an eye on excessive P.
Click to expand...

My lawn has low CEC and has *alot* of water movement across the back and side portion when it rains.


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## ken-n-nancy

Delmarva Keith said:


> I can only offer opinion, not experience because Milorganite is too, er, rich for my blood ($$$).
> 
> Low CEC soil is going to have fewer exchange sites for cationic nutrient ions and also tends to have excessive drainage. Either frequent low dose apps of fert or a very slow release fert are needed. Being so slow release, Milo would seem to be perfect for that, except for lack of K. Soil with low CEC and excessive drainage is going to tend to have K issues, so that is bad. K is cationic but also water soluble. It is going to tend to leach out of low CEC soils.
> 
> If Milorganite were cheaper I would probably use it on occasion, supplemented with K, and keep an eye on excessive P.


The above sounds like my soil. I have a low CEC (varying from 3.7 to 5.1 by area) and have perennially low potassium. For the past few years, I've been applying 1#K/month from May through August without significant changes (up or down) in my annual spring soil test results for measured potassium.

My fertilization has been primarily via Bay State Fertilizer (a Boston equivalent to Milwaukee's Milorganite) supplemented with sulfate of potash to supply the K.

I have had slowly increasing measured phosphorus levels over the last few years, which I attribute partially to the Bay State Fertilizer (Milorganite) and partially to the fact that I mulch in an incredible amount of leaves each autumn. (Our lawn is basically a clearing in a hardwood forest of mostly oak and maple.)

I have never actually read of any adverse effect upon the lawn due to elevated phosphorus levels in the soil. Yes, I am aware of the environmental concerns of high phosphorus levels, all related to runoff, but given our lawn's elevation profile, we don't have any runoff onto the road, and there at least a hundred yards of forest between our lawn and a seasonal stream at the back of our property. I dare say that most of the phosphorus measured in our soil is coming from the mulched tree leaves, which are already in the local environment whether I mulch them into the lawn or blow them into the forest, so mulching them into the lawn is not increasing the environmental impact.

I have read that very high phosphorus levels can bind up iron, reducing iron availability to plants, but have also seen lawns with excellent color and no apparent adverse effects upon the lawn with Mehlich III phosphorus levels of > 400ppm.

Have you seen or know of adverse effects upon the lawn from high phosphorus levels? How high does the phosphorus level need to be in order to actually cause negative effects?

In general, my understanding was that it takes extremely high phosphorus levels (say > 1000ppm) to start to have a negative effect upon the lawn. That said, there is also little to no incremental benefit to having higher phosphorus levels than about 50ppm; it's just that the level where the lawn starts to suffer from too much phosphorus is much, much higher than the sufficient level. However, I haven't been able to find scientific studies or papers which measure how high the phosphorus level needs to be in order to have a detrimental effect upon the plants. My speculation is that such studies have not been performed in recent years, because the levels at which adverse effects occur upon the plants are so much higher than the sufficient levels that the level of phosphorus which causes environmental impact concern is reached long before the plants start to suffer from too much phosphorus.

In other words, why would somebody do a study to determine if the phosphorus level that starts to negatively affect lawns is at 1000ppm or 1200ppm when the environmental concern trumps the entire question once the phosphorus level reaches 50ppm?


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## Delmarva Keith

You are asking all the right questions but I don't know that you'll get an"answer" because the iron issue is going to have to be dependent on soil ph and the endogenous soil iron levels. Similar with phosphate / calcium fixation. If there's plenty of iron or calcium to begin with then it would be hard to observe an effect. If it's deficient to begin with, phophate fixation will make it worse.

I recall phytotoxicity studies related to phosphate levels and my recollection is consistent with what you say. Levels need to be ridiculous.

As a simple rule of thumb both for the environment and to avoid making iron or calcium soil deficiencies worse, avoid excessive application of phosphates. Watersheds are much larger than through the woods and a hundred yards. What's going on in NY and Long Island is a good example of this. Everything makes it's way into the water one way or another, some places faster than others. I'd speculate using some seat of the pants analysis that for most soils, the environmental concerns kick in before the plant nutrition concerns, as you say. The environmental concerns become plant concerns when as a result of overuse of phosphates, applications of it are basically banned as they have been in many states.


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## Ridgerunner

The nutrient sufficiency soil level ranges do appear to be quite broad with approximate deficiency levels being more identifiable/known than detrimental maximum levels. In addition to micro-nutrient and P fixation, there's also the loss of mycorrhizal fungi associations due to increased levels of P, but like phosphorous fixation of nutrients, there doesn't seem to be much detrimental affect with that either. Of course this doesn't account for a holistic approach, that is, the effect that nutrient fixation and loss of mycorrhizal fungi associations may have on plant and soil health rather than just plant growth and appearance (disease isn't always just due to bad luck). I agree, we are much more likely to see a detrimental environmental effect long before we see a detrimental plant issue due to high P levels, but what's the logic for achieving high P levels? If there is no advantage to the turf plant beyond a certain "optimal" level, why exceed that and create environmental and possible detrimental nutrient and soils health issues, no matter how unlikely or severe that may be?
As an aside, I've never seen a soil with greater than 400-600 ppm of P (those were farm fields). @ken-n-nancy is it possible the values you mentioned were for pounds of P2O5 rather than ppm? Not that any level is not possible, just wondering as 1000 ppm would be the equivalent of > than 90 lbs/M of P2O5. Wow.


----------



## krubs

iFisch3224 said:


> krubs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got my first spreader and have been waiting at least a month to find this stuff in stores. I've checked walmart, lowes, HD, all have been OOS for the past month.. Pretty frustrating
> 
> 
> 
> I feel for ya guys. I live in a relatively small town (15,000 or so) and Ace, Lowes, HD, Walmart all have them. Ace is the cheapest @ $10.37/bag.
> 
> Spring - 2 bags
> Summer - 1 bag
> Fall - 2 bags
> 
> Spoon feed Feature 6-0-0 about every ~3 weeks at 1/2 dose.
Click to expand...

I was able to pick some up a couple of days ago at HD. I bought 15 bags lol


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Ridgerunner said:


> I agree, we are much more likely to see a detrimental environmental effect long before we see a detrimental plant issue due to high P levels, but what's the logic for achieving high P levels?


For me, personally, the objective isn't to achieve a higher P level. Rather, the question is whether or not I can use a biosolid fertilizer (Bay State Fertilizer for me, Milorganite for some others reading this thread) even if I already have a sufficient phosphorus level?

I have seen some somewhat tangential benefits in my lawn since using primarily BSF / Milorganite, rather than name-brand synthetic fertilizers. These benefits have included greatly increased earthworm activity, soil that looks and feels more like garden soil, with increased organic content, and healthier-looking grass. Whether these improvements are due to BSF / Milorganite rather than the myriad of other things I've started doing differently within the past 5 years (better lawn cultural practices in general - mowing frequency, watering, IPM weed treatments, etc.) is impossible to determine, as I've made these changes collectively, rather than in an isolated one-variable-at-a-time study. However, I do think that the use of BSF / Milorganite has been a contributing factor.

BSF is also the least expensive N source readily available to me (about $2.19 / # of N) other than quick-release urea (46-0-0, which is about $0.95/ # of N for me).

I'm reluctant to eliminate BSF as a fertilizer for my lawn, although from a soil test perspective, all the nutrients I need can be found in just urea (46-0-0) and sulfate of potash (0-0-50) since my phosphorus levels are sufficient.

There's a lot of things I like about BSF / Milorganite:


The relatively low density of nutrient (4% N for BSF, rather than 46% for urea) makes even spreading easier and reduces the impact of accidental overlap.


The earthworms seem to love it.


The natural slow-release seems to give very even feeding to the lawn, rather than a feast/famine from quick-release urea applications.


The reduced risk of "fertilizer burn" is nice.


The smell reminds me of living in Wisconsin in grade school - a happy "earthy" smell for me.


The product is a byproduct of Boston's wastewater treatment program -- land application of biosolids is about the best way we as a community have to recycle biosolids -- if it isn't applied to farms, lawns, and gardens, what would be done with it? It's not like it's a product that is being produced at increased levels because of consumer demand. We, as a society, need to do something with it - is spreading it on my lawn as good as any other disposal approach?



Ridgerunner said:


> As an aside, I've never seen a soil with greater than 400-600 ppm of P (those were farm fields). @ken-n-nancy is it possible the values you mentioned were for pounds of P2O5 rather than ppm? Not that any level is not possible, just wondering as 1000 ppm would be the equivalent of > than 90 lbs/M of P2O5. Wow.


I'm pretty sure that the number I saw was in the region of 2200 - 2400 lbs/acre of P2[/sub]0[sub]5 on a Logan Labs test using a measurement depth of 4". As I understand it, the appropriate conversion factor for that to ppm would be divide by 1.5 and multiply by 0.4364, which would give a range of 640ppm to 698ppm. However, it's possible I'm not remembering that correctly. I spent some time just now trying to search to find the old post that contained the info, but I couldn't find it.


----------



## iFisch3224

krubs said:


> iFisch3224 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> krubs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got my first spreader and have been waiting at least a month to find this stuff in stores. I've checked walmart, lowes, HD, all have been OOS for the past month.. Pretty frustrating
> 
> 
> 
> I feel for ya guys. I live in a relatively small town (15,000 or so) and Ace, Lowes, HD, Walmart all have them. Ace is the cheapest @ $10.37/bag.
> 
> Spring - 2 bags
> Summer - 1 bag
> Fall - 2 bags
> 
> Spoon feed Feature 6-0-0 about every ~3 weeks at 1/2 dose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was able to pick some up a couple of days ago at HD. I bought 15 bags lol
Click to expand...

Get em while they last, if you're having trouble locating inventory! :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

Whoa!!


----------



## Mightyquinn

Is the price kind of high?


----------



## pennstater2005

Mightyquinn said:


> Is the price kind of high?


For me that's approaching double the price in just 5 years or so.


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## pennstater2005

I don't use it anyway just was a bit surprised.


----------



## ADanto6840

FWIW, I paid around $8/bag ~ June lasst year, from a semi-rural independent Ace Hardware. They "only" had 17 bags though, but I believe they'll restock this year. I think I still have enough to cover my year this year, heh.


----------



## GPO Man

I figured it would go up more tbh.


----------



## wiread

That's double what I paid just last year from our local Fleet Farm.

I don't know why milo would go up so much, other than people are piggy backing on everything else. It doesn't come from overseas and we have all the "raw materials" we need right here LOL. Nothing has changed in that process during all of this, unless they're really taking out that many samples from sewage to check for C19 it's disrupting their supply chain LOL.

I think they just want to make more money. yeah fuel to ship it is higher, but that on a shipment is minimal. I've bought this stuff for 8-9 bucks a bag last time gas was 3-4 a gallon too. Other than that it doesn't require any other petro products like synthetics do.


----------



## Mightyquinn

It's always been expensive here in the South but now it's even more and you get less per bag.


----------



## Ware

wiread said:


> That's double what I paid just last year from our local Fleet Farm.
> 
> I don't know why milo would go up so much, other than people are piggy backing on everything else. It doesn't come from overseas and we have all the "raw materials" we need right here LOL. Nothing has changed in that process during all of this, unless they're really taking out that many samples from sewage to check for C19 it's disrupting their supply chain LOL.
> 
> I think they just want to make more money. yeah fuel to ship it is higher, but that on a shipment is minimal. I've bought this stuff for 8-9 bucks a bag last time gas was 3-4 a gallon too. Other than that it doesn't require any other petro products like synthetics do.


I'm wanting to say they came out last year and said that the wholesale price had not changed much between 2020 and 2021, and that it was the retailers controlling the prices. That would explain the wide range we saw last year - retailers likely capitalizing on the popularity/demand.

I have to disagree with the comment about it not requiring any petro products though.

"...Moisture is first squeezed out of the clumps using belt presses resulting in something similar to wet cardboard. The semi-solid material moves on to one of 12 rotary kiln driers heated to 900-1200 ⁰F which heats the Milorganite...."​
Those kilns are almost certainly natural gas fired. So while their feedstock may be unaffected, their energy inputs for processing are going to be significantly higher than previous years. This is unfortunately going to drive up the price of many things we buy.


----------

