# Using Scotts products



## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

I just had a few questions. I put down Scotts Crabgrass halt with Lawn Food on Apr. 28th. I believe that is a Pre emergent. I am being instructed by the "My Lawn" app to apply Weed and Feed in June. I believe weed and feed is a post emergent. Seems a bit early to apply a post emergent, no? Also, I want to overseed this fall, but also want to drop WeedEx to control what little Poa Annua I have in my yard. When should Weedex be applied and how long to wait before overseed?

I am not stuck on Scotts products, but never really worked with concentrated stuff, so granules have been the way I've gone

Also, whats the difference between Scott's Crabgrass Halt with Lawn Food, and the WeedEx products, other than one has Lawn food? The WeedEx states it helps control Poa A and crabgrass, but the Crabgrass halt with lawn food doesn't say "controls Poa"

I was told by Scott's customer service that I have to wait 4 months after WeedEx to overseed. I dont have that option this season since WeedEx should be applied either early spring(option gone since its almost June) or in fall,(which is when I need to overseed).

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks.


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

'Scotts Crabgrass Halts with Lawn Food' is to prevent new seeds like from crabgrass from sprouting for the next four months and also feed your lawn. 'Weed and Feed' is to get rid of existing broad-leaf weeds by spreading it on top of them, while also feeding your grass.

The difference between WeedEX and 'Scotts Crabgrass Halts with Lawn Food' is that one contains fertilizer and WeedEX doesn't, but they both contain Pendimethalin 1.71% to prevent seeds from sprouting. From my understanding, one can't control poa and overseed in fall at the same time. July has been given as the time to put down another Halts/WeedEX in this forum. Scotts says to apply in Aug-Oct. I think the temperature to look for is consistent 70s for cool season grass sprouting, which is what poa is. Scotts also lists in their WeedEX specifications that it can be used to prevent moss, something I will have to try out this year if I can get the timing down.

Okay, I just asked Scotts when to apply Halts or WeedEX in fall to prevent moss and poa. They said to apply late-summer/early fall BEFORE soil temperatures drop below 70°F. Key word being 'soil' temperatures, not air. Also remember that one should only make two applications yearly.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Both products list the same active ingredient on the label. The Ai is a pre-emergent that also has early post-emergent properties.

If you plan on seeding in the Fall, I would skip another application.

Generally speaking, if pre-emergent is on your to-do list, you can do one in the Spring and one in the Fall. For those who do not plan on seeding in the Fall, they may split their Spring apps - 1 in April and 1 in June. This gives them longer pre-emergent properties in the soil.

What is your plan this season?


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

greencare said:


> 'Scotts Crabgrass Halts with Lawn Food' is to prevent new seeds like from crabgrass from sprouting for the next four months and also feed your lawn. 'Weed and Feed' is to get rid of existing broad-leaf weeds by spreading it on top of them, while also feeding your grass.
> 
> The difference between WeedEX and 'Scotts Crabgrass Halts with Lawn Food' is that one contains fertilizer and WeedEX doesn't, but they both contain Pendimethalin 1.71% to prevent seeds from sprouting. From my understanding, one can't control poa and overseed in fall at the same time. July has been given as the time to put down another Halts/WeedEX in this forum. Scotts says to apply in Aug-Oct. I think the temperature to look for is consistent 70s for cool season grass sprouting, which is what poa is. Scotts also lists in their WeedEX specifications that it can be used to prevent moss, something I will have to try out this year if I can get the timing down.
> 
> Okay, I just asked Scotts when to apply Halts or WeedEX to prevent moss and poa. They said to apply late-summer/early fall BEFORE soil temperatures drop below 70°F. Key word being 'soil' temperatures, not air.


@greencare Thanks for the reply. I might just have to skip another app of preM this season and maybe just apply the winterguard after the new grass is at 3rd mowing in fall???



Harts said:


> Both products list the same active ingredient on the label. The Ai is a pre-emergent that also has early post-emergent properties.
> 
> If you plan on seeding in the Fall, I would skip another application.
> 
> ...


@Harts Welp, I dropped Crabgrass Halt with Lawn Food on Apr 28th. I plan to drop Milo around July 1st, and then again on Sept 1, in which at same time I plan to aerate, level some low spots with topsoil, and overseed. In stead of Milo during overseed, I might do a started fert instead to allow new seedlings to catch up. Then another milo in november(I think).

Just trying to figure out a good time to drop a preM down during that, where it wont hurt seedlings?

Thoughts?


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

derowe82 said:


> greencare said:
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> > 'Scotts Crabgrass Halts with Lawn Food' is to prevent new seeds like from crabgrass from sprouting for the next four months and also feed your lawn. 'Weed and Feed' is to get rid of existing broad-leaf weeds by spreading it on top of them, while also feeding your grass.
> ...


[Edit]
Whoops, I misread.

Yes, that will work for overseeding. But remember that poa will also sprout. I am also thinking of doing the same and deal with poa another season.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

You should be fine to over seed, especially if you plan on aerating. Don't drop anymore Pre-em between now and then. You can do an app of pre-em late Fall once the new grass has established.

Do not drop nitrogen when you over seed. Your existing grass will grow and out compete the new seedlings for water and nutrients. Read this guide. It will answer many of your questions.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

greencare said:


> derowe82 said:
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Yeah I figure if I can take care of the thinner spots and continue to make my lawn healthy and thick, that will also help with poa and then maybe next season I will attack the poa and then turn around the following season and oversee it again if needed.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

Harts said:


> You should be fine to over seed, especially if you plan on aerating. Don't drop anymore Pre-em between now and then. You can do an app of pre-em late Fall once the new grass has established.
> 
> Do not drop nitrogen when you over seed. Your existing grass will grow and out compete the new seedlings for water and nutrients. Read this guide. It will answer many of your questions.


Thanks @Harts, and thanks for the link. I will check it out. I was thinking the same about the milo(nitrogen) at seeding. Need a fert with higher phosphorus, correct?

Thanks again.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

Is this poa?


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

I think that might be poa.



Look for the circled, white area to identify poa.

I just went outside to inspect and found couple of poa in the front lawn. I am now going on full weed control. Overseeding can wait till grass thickens up, or until next spring. I think I can compete with poa better next spring if I stop them from sprouting this fall. My plan is regular fertilizer around July 4th and WeedEX or Scotts Halts (whatever is available) around mid-August.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

greencare said:


> I think that might be poa.
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Same. Was gonna overseed but I might wait and overseed next season. I mowed today and paid more attention(also the poa is actively growing) and there is more than I thought. I am not too sure which way to go. If I don't control it this year, next year will be bad. Maybe I'll do a weed and feed next week, and then fert on 4th. Overseed in sept and then winter guard in November/December. I don't know. Lol


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

derowe82 said:


> Harts said:
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> > You should be fine to over seed, especially if you plan on aerating. Don't drop anymore Pre-em between now and then. You can do an app of pre-em late Fall once the new grass has established.
> ...


You don't necessarily need fert for an over seed. You can apply something two weeks after germination. But read the guide. See what it suggests


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

derowe82 said:


> greencare said:
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> > I think that might be poa.
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In the beginning, I didn't know anything about lawn care. I didn't read anything online or ask for advise. I saw that the lawn wasn't greening in April, so went and got a fertilizer. The first fertilization I did was with Scotts hand spreader. lol. I didn't even put down a crabgrass preventer for the first couple of years because I didn't know anything about crabgrass. One year, we had hundreds of crabgrass sprout. So, on a free day, I went outside and twisted all of them out by hand. Every, single, last, one, as they were such an eyesore. Crabgrass is much easier to pull than poa. From then onwards, I have always put down some kind of a pre-emergent before the temps reached near 80s for a couple of days in a row, like this week.

With poa, I always thought the seedlings were not from poa, but from a random grass type I had overseed with. I used to overseed in April with 'sun and shade' mix, and figured those seeds were from them, and largely because they were the same color as regular grass. Now I know different... I think.

I have always bagged grass, so I might have controlled the poa population in that manner. But now I have to take this step against poa, and moss, too.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

greencare said:


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I'm in the same boat actually. Lol. Poa and moss. I get moss after ever winter in a dense shade area. I seeded this year and it grew in really well and minimized the moss. I need to take care of those too.

Good luck.


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

Same to you. And thanks. If you hadn't made the post about WeedEX, I probably wouldn't have looked twice at this.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

greencare said:


> Same to you. And thanks. If you hadn't made the post about WeedEX, I probably wouldn't have looked twice at this.


@greencare I just found this while researching a way to weed and feed while seeding.

https://www.lebanonturf.com/products/2153867

Wonder if it works??? Says you can apply while seeding.


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

derowe82 said:


> greencare said:
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> > Same to you. And thanks. If you hadn't made the post about WeedEX, I probably wouldn't have looked twice at this.
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Hmm, interesting. Scotts has something similar, too. Scotts Turf Builder Starter Food For New Grass Plus Weed Preventer. Seems you spread the seed and then spread this fertilizer/weed preventer, and then water it in, in that order. Not sure if it works against poa since poa is a bluegrass.

[Edit]
Just asked Scotts and they said, "The herbicides needed for poa annual are too strong to apply in the starter fertilizer." So, they are saying it won't prevent poa from sprouting.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

greencare said:


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Good to know. Yea I just looked at the list of weeds that it controls, and Poa is not one of them, but there are alot that it covers. Maybe I'll go that route in the fall and then take care of the poa next spring when the new grass is well established. Also, that scotts brand is probably easier to find in store near me.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

derowe82 said:


> greencare said:
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> > Same to you. And thanks. If you hadn't made the post about WeedEX, I probably wouldn't have looked twice at this.
> ...


That product contains Mesotrione as the active ingredient. It is the same ingredient in Tenacity. This can be applied when seeding to help control weeds during a renovation. It doesn't control everything but it does eliminate a lot of the common weeds that pop up.

Controlling poa annua from popping up requires a pre-em like Dimension (ai is dithiopyr) applied in the Fall.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

Harts said:


> derowe82 said:
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Thanks for the info. Good to know. I thought tenacity would control poa? Glad I didn't apply it expecting It to kill Poa. I think I will control the poa next season and just deal with it for now. It's not too crazy but I do have some rough spots but maybe I'll just weed kill those completely or peel them up and re-plant seed in the fall.

Thanks.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

@derowe82 just to clarify, Tenacity will suppress annual bluegrass but will not kill it. However, it will bleach your grass (temporarily). Most use Tenacity during a renovation to prevent new weeds from popping up and competing with seedlings.

You would like want a regular pre-em such as Dimension or Prodiamine.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

Harts said:


> @derowe82 just to clarify, Tenacity will suppress annual bluegrass but will not kill it. However, it will bleach your grass (temporarily). Most use Tenacity during a renovation to prevent new weeds from popping up and competing with seedlings.
> 
> You would like want a regular pre-em such as Dimension or Prodiamine.


Awesome, thanks. I appreciate the info and help.


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

Also got response back from ProScape saying that it won't work to prevent Poa germination.

_"Thank you for your inquiry! ProScape 21-22-4 Starter Fertilizer with .08 Mesotrione will only prevent the label listed weeds and Annual Bluegrass or Poa Annua is not listed."_

I wonder why it works against crabgrass and other weeds but not against Poa.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

greencare said:


> Also got response back from ProScape saying that it won't work to prevent Poa germination.
> 
> _"Thank you for your inquiry! ProScape 21-22-4 Starter Fertilizer with .08 Mesotrione will only prevent the label listed weeds and Annual Bluegrass or Poa Annua is not listed."_
> 
> I wonder why it works against crabgrass and other weeds but not against Poa.


Poa is a tough weed since a bluegrass I guessing. Sucks but I'll slowly start next season to remove it.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

I just finally pulled some of the grass or poa for that matter and it definitely looks low poa! Crap!!

And now that it's actually seating, I definitely have it worse than I thought but I need to get my lawn thicker therefore power control will be next season. The only good thing I have going right now as it is in big clumps


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@greencare mesotrione is the active ingredient on tenacity. It does suppress poa annua.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@derowe82 that looks like regular poa. Not poa annua.


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

g-man said:


> @derowe82 that looks like regular poa. Not poa annua.


You mean Poa trivialis? How does one tell them apart?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

greencare said:


> g-man said:
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> > @derowe82 that looks like regular poa. Not poa annua.
> ...


Kbg is Poa pratensis. Poa trivialis and poa annua and poa bulbosa are also part of the same genus and family. That's why is so hard to id them or to selectively kill them since they are similar.


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

g-man said:


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Thanks. Did not know that.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

g-man said:


> greencare said:
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@g-man Thanks for the reply it when you say that is regular poa, is that a good thing or bad thing? As in is it worse than Poa A or poa triv, or am I kind of in the same boat or do I have lesser of a problem?

Is my best but still a pre-emergent in the fall and then I get in the spring? And continue to do that for the next few years? I'm not real worried about getting rid of it all at once, but I would like to get rid of it over time.

Thanks


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

So this is my last picture... poa or no? It's not clumps, but spread through lawn. But then the third picture shows where it stops under the tree.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@derowe82 all grasses will produce seedheads when they have enough energy for it. Since you are fertilizing your lawn, you are seeing them. Seed head type, shape, distance between seeds are all tools to help I'd what the grass type is.

What I see in your images is kbg seedhead. Kbg is Poa pratensis, so it is poa. Poa trivialis and poa annua and poa bulbosa are also part of the same genus and family.


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

g-man said:


> @derowe82 all grasses will produce seedheads when they have enough energy for it. Since you are fertilizing your lawn, you are seeing them. Seed head type, shape, distance between seeds are all tools to help I'd what the grass type is.
> 
> What I see in your images is kbg seedhead. Kbg is Poa pratensis, so it is poa. Poa trivialis and poa annua and poa bulbosa are also part of the same genus and family.


Is the lighter color the telltale sign of pop annua or pop triv?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@greencare no. Many grasses have light colors. There is a yt video by tgreen that helps id it.


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## derowe82 (May 7, 2020)

@g-man So by the images, is it something I should PreM this fall for? I want to overseed it fall and do a small renovation on a spot in front yard. But if I prem, I can't over seed really.


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## greencare (Sep 14, 2019)

g-man said:


> @greencare no. Many grasses have light colors. There is a yt video by tgreen that helps id it.


That video has been helpful in that now I know that Poa triv doesn't seed in lower heights like Poa annua. But still not sure how to separate Poa annua from other Poas. He is comparing to fescue, which is different from KBG.


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