# Princess 77 Bermuda Reno help!!- Charlotte NC



## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

Hey Everyone,

I do have a question but just bare with me.
I am in the middle of a complete lawn renovation.
I put down seed/starter fert/milo and peat moss on May 23rd.
Then we hit an absolute heat wave.
I was fortunate to see germination in only 4 days on May 27th.
Since May 27th, the growth of this hybrid grass is painfully slow. Almost to the point that I'm starting to get worried. 
I'm not 100% sure, but I think I am over watering.
Due to the heat wave, I was watering about every 4 hours for 25 mins.
I have since backed it off to watering twice a day for 15 mins.
I am on about day 8 AFTER germination.
Anyone have tips to why the growth of the princess 77 is so slow? Or do I just need patience?


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## Dangerlawn (Sep 13, 2018)

Are you joking? That looks amazing for less than 2 weeks...


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## Tmank87 (Feb 13, 2019)

I'm guessing March should read May


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

I just seeded Princess 77 on Sunday, hoping it germinates as quick as yours.


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

Yeah apologies. It should definitely read "may" instead of "March".
Some of the germinated blades are turning purple.
Is that normal?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

At no time has a soil test or any fertilizer mentioned. Bermuda seedlings turning purple suggests a Phosphorus deficiency. I would apply a complete fertilizer like 10-10-10 or 13-13-13 or equivalent now at 3 lb per 1000 sq ft then do it again in 2 weeks.


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

I put down Lesco starter fert and milorganite when I put the seed down.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Does the soil need lime. I have seen grass turn purple in spite of being fertilized for that reason. Both Milorganite and Lesco fetilizers lack Potassium as well. A 1-1-1 ratio fertilier is what I use unless soil testing indicates a need for something else


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Looks good to me for only being at 10 DAS. I would put down a balanced fert like @Greendoc said. My Riviera seemed like it took forever to get going then it took off around day 17.

Day 17 vs day 19


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

that fertilizer has to be a normal fertilizer. Nothing trendy. Nothing organic.


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

When would you suggest putting down another round fert?
Again, I'm thrilled at the amount of germination I got, just afraid it's not growing like it should.


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## FRD135i (Oct 15, 2017)

@Romangorilla listen to what @Greendoc says. P77 takes its time, patience pays off though. due to my busy life mine really started to get better this year. I am really impressed with my P77 but it took its sweet time. I imagine it would have spread better in the first year if I didn't jack up my 220B. Some suggest mowing low at the height you are going to maintain at. This has helped mine spread greatly.


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

@FRD135i Thanks for the input. Patience is not my strong suit. But I think another round of starter fert or a balanced fert may be the answer and then obviously. . . watering and patience.


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

Hey guys. 
Thanks for all of the advice.
I applied 13-13-13 fert at a rate of 1# per 1000 on June 3rd at the suggestion of @Greendoc 
I am starting to have a crabgrass/weed issue and some moss developing though.
I'll need to apply some prodiamine in a week or so.
This is how it's doing at the moment:


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

Looking good


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Yeah your right on schedule or a little ahead schedule.

If you can reel cut it often it will speed up the spread rate.

Check out my journal.

I'm 35 days in on my Princess 77 Reno.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Romangorilla said:


> Hey guys.
> Thanks for all of the advice.
> I applied 13-13-13 fert at a rate of 1# per 1000 on June 3rd at the suggestion of @Greendoc
> I am starting to have a crabgrass/weed issue and some moss developing though.
> ...


Lawn is looking great but that view. Man that is gorgeous. I can only imagine what it looks like in late October.


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

Thanks.
Yeah, when late October rolls around, it is definitely a great view.


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

@ENC_Lawn thanks for the info.
I just looked through your lawn journal.
A couple questions for you:
Did you figure out what made your newly germinated turf turn purple? I am having that issue at the moment.
And when did you start cutting with the reel mower?


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

@Romangorilla

In regards to the purple seedlings I think they turned purple do to I didn't use a true starter fertilizer at first.

Once I added the starter fertilizer that had phosphorus....the purple tent went away in 2 to 3 days.

Also I seeded in early May and the constant wet environment of my ground staying wet "I overwaterd by mistake" along with about 3 nights of cool temperatures also could of been what caused the purple coloring.

I haven't done a soil test since last year...so its possible I have a nutrient deficiency also.

However once I added the starter fertilizer along withe warmer temperatures I have been good to go.

I cut my lawn the first time around day 14 or 15 I believe.

Once you start cutting it low....it will jump start it.

Also....I spoke to Pennington last year and they advised me that Princess 77 Bermuda had a tendency to germinate and "sit" for a while...then it takes off growing laterally.

If you read the NTEP studies on seeding vigor...that tends to be what the research showed as well.

When comparing Princess 77 to other seeded cultivars Like Riveria...they both were almost 90% established "going off memory" by September...however Riveria and other seeded cultivars were something like 60% to 70% established in July were I think I remember Princess 77 being more along the lines of 30% established..."again Im going off memory with these numbers".

So I think the Princess 77 is an awesome choice and we will be happy with it ...but it tends to take longer to establish...from my research.


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

Thanks for the info. 
Anyone here know when I would be able to start using T-Nex PGR? 
Should I wait until I get a few "mow's" in?


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## Zenith_NC (May 7, 2019)

Romangorilla said:


> Hey guys.
> Thanks for all of the advice.
> I applied 13-13-13 fert at a rate of 1# per 1000 on June 3rd at the suggestion of @Greendoc
> I am starting to have a crabgrass/weed issue and some moss developing though.
> ...


Thats looking great, i'm also in Charlotte and planning the switch from Fescue to Bermuda soon.

But Prodiamine so soon after seed germination... is that ok? I was under the impression you couldn't really use any Pre-M on newly seeded Bermuda lawns for at least 3-4 months into the process...?


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

Zenith_NC said:



> Romangorilla said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys.
> ...


I was under the impression that you can throw down some pre-m around the 4 week mark.
With all this rain, I'm going to have to do something before this crabgrass gets out of control.


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

Update:
This is about 3 weeks after germination. So far, I have been pleased with the results. The light colored spots are where I sprayed Quinclorac to control the crabgrass.
I have mowed a few times with a rotary and will begin mowing with my GM 1000 to try to promote lateral growth and fill in the some of the bare spots.
Anyone know when I can start using a PGR?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

You can start PGR at a low rate now to encourage lateral rather than vertical growth. I would start the reel mower now as well. Less damaging to the grass vs a rotary mower


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

Thanks for the advice @Greendoc .
I'm definitely hitting it with the GM 1000 this afternoon. 
I have been waiting on this for about a month!
Would you recommend using a low rate of PGR with 1# of nitrogen at the same time?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

How about 1/4-1/2 lb of N this month because you are mostly grown in. Low rate of PGR is suggested 
Like 4-8 oz per acre


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

Thanks @Greendoc ! 
And "4-8 oz per acre"... lol Will give it a try. But here comes some public school math to try and dial that in for 2500 Sqft.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Hey. I went to public school and a state university. 8 oz per acre is about 0.5 oz for your 2,500 sq ft 4 oz is 0.25 oz per 2500 sq ft. But, I never measure it that way. When applying to small areas, I go to cc s. Small graduated cylinders or even the medication syringes for babies. 13.5 CC for 8 oz 6.75 cc for 4 oz per acre equivalent on your 2500 sq ft lawn.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Romangorilla said:


> Thanks @Greendoc !
> And "4-8 oz per acre"... lol Will give it a try. But here comes some public school math to try and dial that in for 2500 Sqft.


Just remember that an acre is 43,560 square feet. Divide whatever measurement they give you per acre by 43,560 and multiply by 1000. That's how much product you need per thousand square feet. It can be simplified further but this way there is no chance on a decimal place being off. 435.6 and 43.56 make for very different solutions.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Romangorilla said:


> Update:
> This is about 3 weeks after germination. So far, I have been pleased with the results. The light colored spots are where I sprayed Quinclorac to control the crabgrass.
> I have mowed a few times with a rotary and will begin mowing with my GM 1000 to try to promote lateral growth and fill in the some of the bare spots.
> Anyone know when I can start using a PGR?


Looks great!

My Princess 77 is on day 44 and your growth is ahead of mine... and I been spoon feeding .5 of N every 7 days.

Great job!


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

Thanks @ENC_Lawn . Yeah, it's starting to develop some runners, so hopefully it will cover those bare spots and thicken up soon. I just cut it with the reel mower yesterday so hopefully that helps some. Once I put down another round of balanced fert at the advice of @Greendoc and put down some humic acid, the turf really seemed to take off. I was just looking at your lawn journal. It looks like it is coming in pretty well. I'm trying to get to your HOC. Right now I'm at 7/8" but am shooting 3/4 or 5/8.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

@Romangorilla Thanks...I just update my journal today with day 45 pics.

@Greendoc can I ask you a question around pushing nitrogren?

Im at day 45 and I have been spoon feeding .5 pounds of N every 7 days in hope to establish the grow in faster?

In your experience do you recommend less than this or is this a good strategy?

Would 1 pound every 15 days be an ok strategy on a 45 day old lawn?

I have always read Bermuda is a nitrogen Hog but in regards to diminishing returns what is your experience with how much nitrogen to put out to get a lawn or sports field up and running asap without burning the seedlings?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

0.25 lb per week is the cutoff point for diminishing returns. Water and mowing have a great impact on grow in time and quality of the end product.


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

Just wanted to provide a status update for everyone:

It's about 27 days after germination.
I have been mowing every 2 days at 3/4 " HOC with the reel mower.
It's starting to spread and fill in pretty well.
Just need it to thicken up.

First pic was taken on May 25th, the day before seed went down. I refer to it to as the blank canvas look.
Second pic was taken June 22nd.


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## jakemauldin (Mar 26, 2019)

My P77 that is sprouting up is definitely purple in certain areas as well, my soil test came back with a phos deficiency and I applied gypsum and a starter 18-24-12 at the recommendation of John Perry of Greene County Fert prior to seeding in prep for it. I suppose I need to reapply the starter fert since it has been a month. Might help boost it along. I know it is still phosphorous deficient since that takes a long time to correct.


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

Some great advice I was given that really helped it out was to apply a balanced fertilizer. (ex: 20-20-20)
Once I applied it at 1# of N per 1000Sqft, the Bermuda really took off.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Romangorilla said:


> Just wanted to provide a status update for everyone:
> 
> It's about 27 days after germination.
> I have been mowing every 2 days at 3/4 " HOC with the reel mower.
> ...


Fantastic Results....Great job!!!


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## 1FASTSS (Jul 11, 2018)

Yard looks awesome. I'm getting ready to do my back yard with Arden 15...the newer version. Hope to get the same results as yours.


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

ENC_Lawn said:


> Romangorilla said:
> 
> 
> > Just wanted to provide a status update for everyone:
> ...


Thanks!


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

1FASTSS said:


> Yard looks awesome. I'm getting ready to do my back yard with Arden 15...the newer version. Hope to get the same results as yours.


I'm sure I could look up the information somewhere on google, but shot in the dark, do you know what's different about Arden 15 and P77?
I understand it's the newer version, just curious about the differences.


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## Dave (May 5, 2018)




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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

@Romangorilla

What HOC is the last pic of your lawn?


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

Dave said:


>


Thanks for the info.


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

ENC_Lawn said:


> @Romangorilla
> 
> What HOC is the last pic of your lawn?


3/4"
It seems to do really well at the height.


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

Quick question in regards to the lawn.

@Greendoc How soon after you put down Bermuda seed can you aerate the lawn?
I'm dealing with some serious runoff issues due to compaction.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Get your soil tested. Compaction and run off is not well addressed by mechanical aeration. Correcting problems with soil chemistry often does way more. If the soil needs Lime, that is the reason why it is compacted. if it needs to be acidified with Sulfur, that needs to be addressed. Compaction and poor water infiltration is a symptom of a soil chemistry issue that needs to be addressed.


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## Romangorilla (Jun 3, 2019)

Ok, thanks for the info.
I sent a soil test a few days ago and just waiting for the results to come back.
So we shall see.
I appreciate the quick response.
Shot in the dark here, but any clue as to why I have light green patches of Bermuda turf? It's in the same general area that I have runoff problems.


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