# Yet another thread about JD vs Toro, specifically the 220E vs Toro 1600



## RangersFC (Jul 29, 2019)

I currently have a Swardman, and am considering also picking up a beefy greens mower for my backyard. The Swardman is great for parts of my yard with obstacles, etc. But I find it just is not beefy enough to hold itself in a line when I mow in a larger area. I seems to float on my Tifway 419, if that makes sense, even on a flat surface. My old Tru Cut was beefy and it always stayed in a straight line. I'm going to be using two tools (one beefy and one nimble). Based on what I've researched, I've got it down to the JD 220E and the Toro 1600.

JD220E features I love: 
-Ability to use the electric mower to turn the reel in reverse, so you can backlap using the motor. No need for a drill.
-Ability to remove the reel portion for servicing/grinding, without having to take in the entire unit

But just when I think I've made up my mind, I notice that most of the YouTube enthusiasts I follow seem to have the Toro 1600. I know everyone always says it is a personal preference, but the Toro 1600 seems very popular.

Anyone have (or used) both the 220E and Toro 1600 willing to give me their preference? I don't really need help with the floating head vs non-floating, cut heights, blades #'s, etc. Just need you tell me, all things being equal, that if you had to pick one for a 5,000 sq ft patch of grass, which would you choose? Assuming price and model year is not an issue.

Thanks everyone! This is getting to be an expensive habit


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## Jimefam (Jun 22, 2018)

I am very curious on the replies you get. I have wanted for a while to see what differences there are between the brands and why its seems the JDs and toros outnumber the jacobsens 10:1. Have a Jacobsen 526 but its bulky for what ive got and thinking a 22" or even 18" might be better for me so lets see what the pros say.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I have owned both of those (and had a demo Swardman). I'll circle back and post my thoughts when I get a break.


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

Interested in what @Ware has to say as well.

Floating heads on any greens mower with probably float on your bermuda worse than your swardman. A little off topic but similar situation with Triplex greensmowers and the individual reel heads, They are pulled along by a frame from the front. The heads themselves don't weigh much but don't need to on a golf green. Cutting thick bermuda that not pool table flat and the heads bounce around. My Toro 3100d reel heads are heavy as hell and just mash the grass down and cut it...kind of like the Tru-cut example you mentioned. If I ever move to a smaller house, will sell everything and go with a Toro 1600 on a much smaller yard. just my $0.02


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## Bean4Me (May 13, 2020)

Wouldn't the 260 be more comparable to the gm1600? I've been reading up a lot, getting myself ready for one. I'm curious to hear the comparison as well.


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## AZChemist (Nov 7, 2018)

The E series I've found to lack in power comparison when the reel is engaged. It is still ample but when Taller/thicker grass is met you will observe a slower reel speed.

If stuck between which units to purchase I would at least consider comparatively a flex 21 or 2100 vs a 220e.

All great units regardless and comes down to your brand of preference and what platform meets your needs.


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## RangersFC (Jul 29, 2019)

Thanks for your input everyone. I understand the 220E and 1600 are in somewhat different categories, they were just the two that kind of popped out in my research. And I've found a couple decently priced ones for sale close to me.

Really looking forward to Ware's thoughts, as he is familiar with all 3 of the mowers I referenced (220E, 1600 and Swardman).


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Wow, we are covering a lot of bases here!

The 1600 is going to be less risk as far as cost to repair. Failures in the electric reel drives are expensive! Others with more experience with the electric units may be able to provide insight on how they are getting parts for them and if new is the only option or if used parts are available on the cheap.

Out of curiosity, how is your Swardman configured? Do you have the Reelrollers front roller or the Swardman unit?

With greensmowers, there is so much variability in machine setup. On my Jake GK526A, I have the heaviest grooved steel front roller I can find on it. Even at 300lbs, it will float and bob on thick Tif419, and that is why I built my GK522A verticutter. That machine has a smooth, fairly lightweight front roller on it and when it was setup as a mower, it certainly would float more than the 526. Even if you score a killer deal on a machine, there's always a few hundred bucks you could spend or a parts machine you'll spot that has some gear on it you could use.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Jimefam said:


> I am very curious on the replies you get. I have wanted for a while to see what differences there are between the brands and why its seems the JDs and toros outnumber the jacobsens 10:1. Have a Jacobsen 526 but its bulky for what ive got and thinking a 22" or even 18" might be better for me so lets see what the pros say.


 The ratio of Jake's to Toro/JD in the lawn enthusiast crowd has a lot to do with brand name recognition. Both make excellent residential and commercial mowing equipment, and happen to be in the sports turf business too. Who outside of this community has heard of a Baroness? Doesn't mean they aren't excellent mowers.

As far as downsizing, I'm not sure a smaller width machine would be a significant improvement for you. I've used both my 22" and 26" machines and they are kind of hard to tell the difference as far as operation goes. Definitely take advantage of any opportunity you get to run/try something different though.


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## RangersFC (Jul 29, 2019)

MasterMech said:


> Wow, we are covering a lot of bases here!
> 
> The 1600 is going to be less risk as far as cost to repair. Failures in the electric reel drives are expensive! Others with more experience with the electric units may be able to provide insight on how they are getting parts for them and if new is the only option or if used parts are available on the cheap.
> 
> ...


My Swardman has the grooved front roller from Reelrollers. Moving from a Tru-Cut to the Swardman has been fantastic, as the Swardman cut is great. I really like the maneuverability of it, quick adjustments, and the attachments. I'm pretty satisfied with the Swardman, and glad I have it. However, it really does float a lot on my dense Tifway 419 in certain parts. Attached is a photo. Great cut, but just isn't beefy enough to hold itself in place. The lawns ends up looking like I was intoxicated during mowing when seeing the stripes. The Tru-Cut never moved and the stripes were straight as an arrow.



I know I'm getting nit-picky here, but I also have a few friends with the 1600. I've seen the cut and used it, and the proper greens mower is really a step up from the Swardman. If I can find one at a good price, I'll happy pick one up and add it to my fleet


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I agree the GM1600 and JD 260SL are more comparable. I would be happy with either. When I bought my GM1600 in 2017 (a 2014 with <500 hours), I would have bought a JD 260SL if I had found one in better shape. I had basically narrowed my search down to one of those two.

The 220E was a very nice mower, but it was longer (front to back) than a GM1000/1600 - largely due to the extra roller on the back of the cutting unit. There is just more space required between the reel and the drive drum. Had I not had a GM1000 before the JD220E I may not have noticed this, but I could tell a difference in the the tighter areas of my lawn (e.g. fenced back yard).

I also noticed I had to push further down on the handlebars to get a good lift when turning the JD 220E. Here again, if I had started with a JD220E it might not have been noticeable, but coming from a GM1000 I had to be more conscious of my lifts so I didn't drag the rear roller of the cutting unit. It would gouge the turf if I wasn't careful.

One thing I really like about the JD walk mowers is the Honda engines. They just provide a high level of familiarity/comfort that I didn't get with the Kawasaki FE120 on my GM1000 or even the Subaru on the GM1600 I have now. This is one area where I would probably give a leg up to the JD 260SL. The current production Toro Greensmasters are using Honda engines, but it could be a few years before we start seeing them on the secondary market.

Another noticeable difference between the Toro and the JD mowers is the operator presence bail. Being more familiar with the Toro machines that do not have one, I really wasn't crazy about it. But you would get used to it.

Replacement parts. Beyond just the normal wear items you can order from R&R for most greens mowers, I would probably give the ease of access to OEM replacement parts to Deere, at least where I live. I prefer the online parts diagrams that JD has, and I would say it has generally been an easier experience for me to find the Deere parts I need both locally and online. Professional Turf Products is the Toro golf dealer for my region and their nearest location is about 2 hours away. My local JD dealer (P&K) is not a golf dealer, but they have a branch in Stillwater that is. It's not a greens mower, but most recently I did some general maintenance tasks on my JD 8800 TerrainCut and I was able to order the vast majority of the parts I needed online.

As @MrMeaner mentioned, as the season progressed and the bermuda got really thick, I did notice more floating/bobbing with the JD220E. Verticutting solved the problem, but it got to the point where it almost felt slippery underneath the mower - like the mower almost didn't want to track straight. I experienced the same sensation with the Swardman.

The Swardman mowers are hard to compare to a greens mower. They're just different. I wouldn't say anything particularly bad about them because I think they definitely have a place in the market, but I personally wouldn't trade my GM1600 for one. I just wouldn't. There is just not enough I dislike about my GM1600 to go that direction.

Hope this helps.


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## RangersFC (Jul 29, 2019)

Thanks Ware! That was very helpful. Love this forum - makes it so much easier to get information.


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## Jimefam (Jun 22, 2018)

MasterMech said:


> Jimefam said:
> 
> 
> > I am very curious on the replies you get. I have wanted for a while to see what differences there are between the brands and why its seems the JDs and toros outnumber the jacobsens 10:1. Have a Jacobsen 526 but its bulky for what ive got and thinking a 22" or even 18" might be better for me so lets see what the pros say.
> ...


Yup I would love to try out a smaller machine although it's probably like you say not enough of a change to warrant swapping my 526a which has always been flawless operationally speaking. The main annoyance that i have is because of the shape of my front yard i end up doing a bunch of short runs with tightish turns and i notice it leaves minor marks where I'm turning it around and dragging the machine a bit to get it lined up for the next stripe. Maybe instead of buying another mower I should use the money to get rid of this stupid island in the front and open things up. Would you say quality of cut is very comparable among all three brands?


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## Jimefam (Jun 22, 2018)

RangersFC said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, we are covering a lot of bases here!
> ...


I think it was on the swardman group on FB where i saw someone mention putting in a few bricks in the grass catcher to keep the machine pinned down. Maybe you might want to give that a try?


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

I really need to do a video of me running the Jake with InCommand controls (Centrifugal clutch control). Especially now that I have a fence to contend with, I don't think I'd want to contend with the clutch levers.

@Jimefam I'd be hesitant to pull that island just because I like the look, maybe sans tree. QoC is indistinguishable to the eye among all properly cutting Greensmowers. Jake probably has the best overall geometry, while Toro is the most tunable with their different bedbars. At the heights we're all cutting at, it doesn't make any appreciable difference what color the mower is. The setup matters more so I'd be more concerned that i could get 7/8 blade reels, heavy grooved rollers and clip kits for any machine I was considering purchasing. The bragging rights for QoC as far as greensmowers are concerned are determined under a turf prism and perhaps a stimp meter. They have little to do with appearance and more to do with how far and how predictably a golf ball will roll on the playing surface.


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## Pamboys09 (Apr 16, 2019)

My neighbor have a JohnDeere 220 and we usually compare the cut of our greensmower (i have toro1600)

Just to summarize, he offer me money for it. And it ends our conversation about it.

Im not saying 1600 is better. But me personally i would pick 1600. The reason? I dont know, i just like it. (Sorry i cant find a specific reason why i pick 1600 even with the updated 220e)


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