# Want darker green Bermuda



## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

Any suggestions? 
Two weeks ago applied liq Iron and PGR. Applied liq fert last weekend at the recommended rate. So I have thrown everything but the kitchen sink at it, still not as dark as I would like. It looks healthy, don't get me wrong, but darker green is my goal.

per 1,000 sqft - 15 oz/k liq fert, 9oz/k iron, .4 oz/k tnex, is what i have applied. Any suggestions? upping something maybe? Iron or Fert probably?

It seems keeping it low makes it harder to get darker green (i'm probably at a 1/2 - 3/4 inch using auto mower daily).. Neighbors Bermuda lawn is not been cut for two weeks and is darker than mine. Soil test done this year, all was in good range. Thanks for any help.


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)




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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

Just got a good rain earlier today


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## Blake_DFWlawn (May 9, 2021)

That seems like a pretty high rate for PGR, so you might have some bronzing. I was struggling to get it dark green (via liquid iron and fert) so I decided to drop a heavy dose of ironite and that did the trick. Not sure what other micros might be in there that I was lacking but something kicked it into high gear


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## Boy_meets_lawn (Sep 27, 2020)

Raising the hoc will help with color. My edges that don't get cut by the automower look darker than the rest of the yard. What type of bermuda? How long have you been using PGR? 0.4 oz/k wouldn't be my starting rate if its a hybrid.


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

Tif 419. .4 oz is the rate I used, this is the first time I applied pgr and first time for iron. Considering raising hoc, but not sure if that will do it?

High rate for pgr? That is the recommended rate per the instruction label.


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

When you say heavy dose of ironite, how much per k do you mean? That may be worth a try..


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

Not noticed any bronze color or anything like that, just what you see in the pics. Pale green vs darker green


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## Blake_DFWlawn (May 9, 2021)

.4oz is high for first dose, even though that's the recommended dose. Typically first dose you want to start around .2-.25/oz then work up to the .38 dose.

I applied ironite @ about 4-5lbs/k.


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

PGR rate is like 60% too much, should be applying .25 oz/k, that could be contributing.


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## Boy_meets_lawn (Sep 27, 2020)

I did 0.2 oz on my 419 and it looked bad until I got like 3 apps in. Next year I'm doing 0.125 for the 1st 2 apps then bumping up to 0.25.

I'm betting the pgr overapp is a large factor in your color.


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## Automate (Aug 14, 2020)

You say "15 oz/k liq fert". Is that 15 fluid oz of liquid fertilizer or 15 oz weight of dissolved granular fertilizer? What is the percent Nitrogen (N) in the fertilizer? The important number is lbs N /K sq ft.


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

Liquid fertilizer from do your own website, recommend rate for 30 days is what I have been using.. I'll adjust pgr next time, however there's been no dramatic change in color since the PGR application it's always been about the same color just looking for a darker green that's all.


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)




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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

What is your HOC?

Sometimes the lower you go, the less deep green it can be for certain types of hybrids. But your yard looks "bronzed out" to me. Perhaps from the PGR.

What was high Mg level and pH on the soil tests? You said "good" but sometimes they inhibit uptake of the micros


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## Hambone79 (Jul 23, 2017)

Ammonium Sulfate is your friend if you want dark green. If Ammonium Sulfate + Iron+Micros doesn't get it there you are out of luck!


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## DurtEsanch (Jan 23, 2021)

Using ironite has worked for me too. The effects only last a couple weeks and then seem to wear off. Try alternating an ironite application with an iron rich/micro rich foliar every week. AKA "spoon feeding". Our summers are hot and dry so I use a lot of iron and micros and almost no nitrogen. I also have celebration which is naturally darker.


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

Here is a daytime pic. I'm not so good with colors but I'm not seeing bronze?
Soil test as well.. any advice would be appreciated. the extension service said everything was looking OK


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

This is the iron supplement I'm using I am curious if putting down ironite or something two weeks after I put that down is recommended or I should maybe I should wait?


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Scott's GreenMax. Plus that iron you've got. Plus FeATURE. keep putting stuff out until it's "green enough".


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## Bombers (Jul 14, 2020)

Your soil is pretty good but Ca can inhibit some iron (Fe) absorption and your calcium is pretty high. That might be the culprit there?


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

How do you bring down calcium levels?


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## jochoada (May 26, 2021)

Just another thought. Is the automower blades super sharp? Maybe the blades are getting shredded instead of cut.


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## Bombers (Jul 14, 2020)

Not sure...I'd would contact your Virginia Coop and posed the questions and pictures you posted here.


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

Just threw down some Scott's green max 1/2 bag for 5k. Fingers crossed.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I know we are in a completely different environment but my 419 looks super dark especially next to the Empire Zoysia. I have very sandy soil so I fertilize with some granular 10-10-10 I get from Lowe's. I put it down at about .25lbsN/1000sf about every 3 to 4 weeks. I think the last version I got had 3% iron in it, but I think the biggest difference is using T-Nex. I notice it get really dark once I have done a few apps each season.

Left of the sidewalk is Empire Zoysia at 1.25" that was laid in January. Right of the sidewalk is Tifway 419 at 3/8" that was laid June 2019. I just bumped the HOC of the 419 up today from 1/4" since I was out of town for a week.


Edit: WOW!!! A pressure wash session is coming soon for that sidewalk.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Tiffway said:


> Just threw down some Scott's green max 1/2 bag for 5k. Fingers crossed.


Put some serious water on it. Like 45-60 min a zone if you're on MP rotators, at like 3 or 4 AM


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## Erickson89 (May 3, 2020)

SCGrassMan said:


> Tiffway said:
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> > Just threw down some Scott's green max 1/2 bag for 5k. Fingers crossed.
> ...


What's the thought process here to get some serious water? I bought the Scott's max green from Costco when it was on sale. Curious if I haven't been watering enough after putting it down


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## DurtEsanch (Jan 23, 2021)

Tiffway said:


> How do you bring down calcium levels?


In humans with hypercalcemia you give fluid. Could be the same with soil?


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## DurtEsanch (Jan 23, 2021)

Hambone79 said:


> Ammonium Sulfate is your friend if you want dark green. If Ammonium Sulfate + Iron+Micros doesn't get it there you are out of luck!


Ammonium Sulfate is excellent fertilizer but it will push a lot of vertical growth.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Erickson89 said:


> SCGrassMan said:
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It's just how I do it personally. Fertilizer and water and mowing and sunshine. It's all we can do


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

My cut height is between 1/2 - 3/4, putting a tape measure on it. Near the lowest setting on the automower. I may bump it up for some green up, but I do like it low. Blades should be fine I put the new Husqvarna blades on it about 30 days ago the new and improved version supposed to last longer


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## AllisonN (Jul 4, 2020)

Poor Little auto mower won't be able to keep up after using Scott's max green. Lol


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Erickson89 said:


> SCGrassMan said:
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I always cringe when I hear irrigation needs expressed as a run time - because run time is meaningless without knowing actual precipitation rates.

For example, with a perfect head-to-head MP Rotator setup, the precipitation rate is only 0.4 in/hr - so 45-60 minutes is really only 0.3-0.4 inches of irrigation. That's not what I would call "serious water". Then in reality, if the system has anything less than perfect head-to-head spacing, some areas are probably getting less.

It's best to perform an irrigation audit for each zone on your system so you know how much you're putting down - then and only then can you make informed decisions about run times. :thumbup:


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

I see now, I assumed I should refer to residential turf and not fairways, thinking they heavily fertilize or something? Cut height is the key factor, so that makes sense now.. I'll be going on the low end the rest of the season and next. These labels can be tricky..


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

Just as advertised, Scotts green Max took 3 days to green up, still a little ways to go, however. As of yesterday I had my doubts. getting some heavy rain tomorrow which should kick is up a notch. I'll post some pics after.

I clearly overshot with the T-nex as growth is minimal to nil with quite a bit of nitrogen applied over the past few weeks. Lesson learned.


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## Automate (Aug 14, 2020)

Tiffway said:


>


You were probably going a little light on the N also since what you used has 50% slow release.

So 15/16 * 0.18 * 1/2 => 0.084 lbs N / K sq ft of fast release Nitrogen


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## wiseowl (May 25, 2020)

Tiffway said:


> I see now, I assumed I should refer to residential turf and not fairways, thinking they heavily fertilize or something? Cut height is the key factor, so that makes sense now.. I'll be going on the low end the rest of the season and next. These labels can be tricky..


I apply @ .30oz per K on my TIF419 cut @ 1/2". I've stopped using iron with my apps, actually entirely now, as the iron would bronze the yard rather than make it supersonic green like everyone else's yard on this forum, high rate or low rate wouldn't matter my yard doesn't like iron. PBI Gordon Ferromec AC for reference.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Tiffway said:


> My cut height is between 1/2 - 3/4, putting a tape measure on it. Near the lowest setting on the automower. I may bump it up for some green up, but I do like it low. Blades should be fine I put the new Husqvarna blades on it about 30 days ago the new and improved version supposed to last longer


Which model Automower are you using? Do you have the fairway kit installed? If its just the base model you're mowing at .8" at the lowest setting. Something to be aware of is with Bermuda and Automower blades during end of June, July and Aug you should be swapping those blades at a minimum every 2 weeks. They may look like they are still good, but once the heat sets in to keep the best cut quality keep the blades fresh. Also I've had absolutely terrible luck with blade life using the Husq brand new blade style that is supposed to provide longer cutting life. They start out cutting great, but dull really quick. Honestly the best ones I've found so far was a pack of 120 blades I got on Amazon that were $12. Those things are stupid cheap and don't dull as fast, they seem to have a little more beef to them and the edge they put on them is a happy compromise on super sharp and not to steep of an angle.


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

Good to know on the blades. I do not have the fairway kit, but I don't think I need it. It's pretty short and I haven't maxed it out to lowest setting since putting it in service this season for the first time.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Tiffway said:


> Good to know on the blades. I do not have the fairway kit, but I don't think I need it. It's pretty short and I haven't maxed it out to lowest setting since putting it in service this season for the first time.


So if you aren't mowing at the lowest HOC, you're cutting at the 1"-1.15" range which means you're missing out on additional density benefits and possible color. I've found with the Automower and some PGR you can really get the turf dense and dark green without iron and a little AMS every couple of weeks.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

AllisonN said:


> Poor Little auto mower won't be able to keep up after using Scott's max green. Lol


Oh don't worry the Automower keeps up just fine on Bermuda. I've got mine down to .39" on Tifgrand and it handles it just fine.


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

I think its looking improved for sure. Still not to my goal, but heading in the right direction. Definitely a learning curve with the diy lawn products.


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

HungrySoutherner said:


> Tiffway said:
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> > Good to know on the blades. I do not have the fairway kit, but I don't think I need it. It's pretty short and I haven't maxed it out to lowest setting since putting it in service this season for the first time.
> ...


Cut height is well below 1" and not at lowest setting. Tape measure on grass doesn't lie.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Tiffway said:


> HungrySoutherner said:
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That's really interesting that you're mowing higher than that lowest setting but you're managing to mow lower than the set HOC on the cutting head. I have a 450x with the fairway kit, and without that at the lowest setting of 1 the advertised cutting Height was pretty darn close when I measured it it kept it between .75"- .8" because of the skid disc. When I added the fairway kit I would say it cuts a little lower than the advertised height of 10mm because you remove the skid disc, the lowest would keep it between .3 and .4. are you mowing at 2? 1.5? I'd be curious how you're getting it to mow lower than say .8" but not at the bottom setting.


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

I have a 315 model that has been upgraded for GPS, etc.. I do know that the fairway kit is not compatible with mine, however it cuts low enough for my needs. I got rid of my Reel Mover and my rotary only goes down to an inch or so going much lower is tricky as Bermuda likes to be cut lower from time to time and then set the height up a bit. I think the auto mower struggles bringing the height down, however plan to experiment slowly notching it down to the lowest setting and see how it works. At the current setting it looks like my HOC is about a inch on the Automower, but I had to stop the mower yesterday afternoon due to rainfall, so grass may have grown a smidge since due to rain, missing a few hours of cutting, etc..


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## Tiffway (May 30, 2020)

To lazy to start a new thread so a couple of follow up questions.
1. Using the new version blades and this set has been on about a month and a half. Looking at the pics of blades and grass, is it time to change?

2. It's time to apply fert and PGR. Should I do them separately or at the same time>? I ask because typically you water fert in, and not PGR, so I would not water before or after app.

3. Those with experience please give me suggested app rates for the liq fert and PGR, products I show in this thread.

Thank you for all the support


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