# davegravy's 2021 journal (with Flex21!)



## davegravy

Kicking off the season here. Soil samples are en route to waypoint, this time using SW3 analysis (due to my high pH).

Decided to buy a flex 21 and it should be delivered in the next week or two. Can't wait to start dropping the HOC on last year's reno!


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## bernstem

You will love the new reel. They make such a huge difference at lower HOC.


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## Stuofsci02

I don't think you're going to like that Flex21. Terrible cut quality...


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## bernstem

Stuofsci02 said:


> I don't think you're going to like that Flex21. Terrible cut quality...


Oh, I didn't see it was a flex 21. Yeah, just terrible... In fact... Donate it to me, I don't mind the cut quality... :bandit: :bd:


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## davegravy

You guys are hilarious &#128539;

Just here to note an observation while digging soil samples. A good number of the cores had this chalky green smear, like the probe had hit a sulfur pellet (I applied 10lbs/M of sulfur last season). I found this a bit surprising and it leads me to believe these pellets take a LOOONG time to break down and work into the soil.


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## bernstem

Sulfur is processed by bacteria at higher temps. Anything applied late last season is still sitting there. You can speed up soil integration with some of the "fast release" sulfur which breaks the pellets down with water, but the sulfur still isn't used until the soil warms up.


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## davegravy

bernstem said:


> Sulfur is processed by bacteria at higher temps. Anything applied late last season is still sitting there. You can speed up soil integration with some of the "fast release" sulfur which breaks the pellets down with water, but the sulfur still isn't used until the soil warms up.


So my last app in 2020 was July 10th, I avoided putting any down in the cool weather. Might need to look for this fast release stuff you mention, or just accept that there'll be a pretty big lag before I see results in my soil analysis.


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## bernstem

I use Encap Fast Acting Sulfur.


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## davegravy

First cut of the season (still with manual reel). Mostly a charity mow but there were some decent clippings.

A few snow fungus patches (not shown) but nothing that can't self-repair fairly quickly. Not bad!


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## Stuofsci02

Looking green!


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## BBLOCK

Congrats on the reel!


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## Babameca

Nice!


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## davegravy

Soil results are in


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## davegravy

Prodiamine is down. Let it rain!

Greening up but still a ways to go. Amazing the difference the bit of shade cast by the house makes.


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## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Prodiamine is down. Let it rain!
> 
> Greening up but still a ways to go. Amazing the difference the bit of shade cast by the house makes.


I got mine down today too.. supposed to be good rain tomorrow.. yards looking great!


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## davegravy

Double cut today with the Scotts manual.

Once @ 1.5"



Then again at 1.25" in preparation for my new Toro.



BTW where's my mower @Logan200TCP?  The crowd is chanting for their star performer!

A bit of colour loss at the lower HOC but no scalping which I'm happy about. The Scotts struggles lower down and I'm getting a lot of washboarding. Lower HOC opened up the canopy and made spotting some Poa A a bit easier. Only a few plants so far, nothing concerning.

By the way I never understood what all the fuss was with Poa A until this reno, now I get it. Before it was just another random grass type in my mix, now it stands out like a sore thumb.

Really happy with how this is going!


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## Sinclair

Just gorgeous!

I got my Flex21 from Logan. You won't be disappointed.


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## Stuofsci02

@davegravy ... That looks great now and is going to look unbelievable once you get the flex 21 on it..


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## Logan200TCP

Yikes, I have been mentioned in a forum post!

We are waiting for the darn high height of cut brackets to arrive.
There's about 30 wrapped skids of parts for us to receive, so I am truly hoping these are in one of them.


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## davegravy

Logan200TCP said:


> Yikes, I have been mentioned in a forum post!
> 
> We are waiting for the darn high height of cut brackets to arrive.
> There's about 30 wrapped skids of parts for us to receive, so I am truly hoping these are in one of them.


Lol, just razzing ya. I'm sure it's a busy time of year for you lot, plus with COVID on top of everything  Not everyday I get to publicly poke suppliers - I couldn't resist the urge. Sorry for being such a squeaky wheel!


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## Sinclair

Logan is a good guy, I'm sure he will see to it that all your bearings are packed full of fresh glyphosate grease.


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## davegravy

Sinclair said:


> Logan is a good guy, I'm sure he will see to it that all your bearings are packed full of fresh glyphosate grease.


Glyphosate I can handle, fine fescue seed on the other hand! :lol:


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## jrubb42

Looking great man. Looks like the grass didn't mind 1.25 at all. You're gonna be good to go once you get your greens mower! No transition issues at all it doesn't look like.


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## davegravy

Thanks, yeah I can't wait, although it's gonna snow on Wednesday so I guess lawn care is taking a wee break.

Nonetheless, I sprayed 0.3lbs/M N from AMS plus some humic today.


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## Stuofsci02

@davegravy .. When does the Flex21 arrive?


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## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> @davegravy .. When does the Flex21 arrive?


Couple weeks ago if you go by Logan's initial estimate  Guess the high HOC kit is taking a while to arrive. Gonna call on Monday and see what the scoop is.


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## davegravy

Satellite image from the fall


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## davegravy

Flex21 is ready, delivery next week sometime! Woohoo


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## jrubb42




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## Babameca




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## Stuofsci02

When do we get the TShirts and Bandanas made for the Flex21 club?


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## davegravy

Maiden voyage


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## davegravy

If anyone has any tips for removing the transport axles, I stupidly didn't think about the width of this thing and getting it into and out of my shed and through my side gate.

So for now it'll be stored in my garage and I'll have to go around the other side of the house with the larger gate which means moving 3 garbage bins out of the way.

Not that adding and removing the transport axles will be a terribly convenient thing to do on each use, but at least then I can store in the shed. I guess I have to think about widening the shed and side gate entrance as a future project.

Small houses with single car garages....


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## Sinclair

@davegravy

One axle is right thread, and one axle is left thread. Turning them forward in the same direction that the wheel turns will loosen them on both sides.

I needed to use my lug nut breaker bar and a piece of wood wedged in the drum to break them free. I applied lithium grease after that and they always come out easily.


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## Sinclair

Oh and another thing...

LOWER! LOWER! LOWER! :lol:

Looks great.


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## davegravy

Sinclair said:


> Oh and another thing...
> 
> LOWER! LOWER! LOWER! :lol:
> 
> Looks great.


Yeah after finishing I found myself thinking "you mean I gotta put the mower away now and wait another couple days before mowing?" 😛 Almost dropped the HOC and mowed again but the neighbour came over and convinced me to do her lawn.

There's a definite learning curve, the thing is a beast and kicked my butt on the turns until the end when I started getting the hang of it. At one point going up my hill the whole thing tilted back on me. I thought it was going to flip and take me out. I'm kind of sore 😛

I'm not sure how people get their stripes so crisp, mine kind of blur into eachother. Not sure if that improves with lower HOC or with practice / technique or what. I'm at 1" HOC now by the way.

Can you elaborate at all on how you wedged wood in the drum? Didn't seem like there's a clear approach angle to get anything of any significant length into it. I'll have to take a closer look tomorrow. Logan said they use an impact gun, which I don't own.


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## Stuofsci02

Very cool... it will be crisper when you drop the height. I'd go to 3/4 for now. Burn them in...


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## jrubb42

It will definitely take you for a ride your first mow &#128514; you'll be good now that you got one under your belt.

The stripes will definitely come in better the more you burn them in.

As for taking off the axels, here is a link to how to do it. I've also seen people heat the axel up with a torch for a long time before doing this cuz those axels can be SUPER tight.

https://youtu.be/Vi9nJ5B27kQ

Also just know that those axels come in handy for lifting the mower into a vehicle. Without them it sucks cuz there's not much to grab onto.

Glad you got your first cut under your belt. Like everyone else said, time to go lower!


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## davegravy

jrubb42 said:


> It will definitely take you for a ride your first mow 😂 you'll be good now that you got one under your belt.
> 
> The stripes will definitely come in better the more you burn them in.
> 
> As for taking off the axels, here is a link to how to do it. I've also seen people heat the axel up with a torch for a long time before doing this cuz those axels can be SUPER tight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also just know that those axels come in handy for lifting the mower into a vehicle. Without them it sucks cuz there's not much to grab onto.
> 
> Glad you got your first cut under your belt. Like everyone else said, time to go lower!


Thanks man.

In that video he sticks a 1" wrench on the inside to lock the axle so he can apply torque without it just spinning. Trouble is I don't see anything hex on the inside to grab with that wrench. I'm guessing it's because it's a different model. Hopefully I can find something to jam in the cylinder to stop it.

Does "burning in" stripes mean you have to always go the same direction over each stripe every mow?


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## Harts

Burning them in means going over them again and again. If you mowed in the same direction for 2-3 successive mows, they will start to really pop.

Getting your stripes to look good really takes time. As you have just experienced, mowing with a reel is a MUCH different experience. It will take a couple of weeks to get really get the hang of it.

What height are you cutting at right now?

As for removing the transport axles, it can be difficult but the method in the video does work. I stick my wrench on the inside and spin the wheel to move the axel until the wrench can fit into place. Trust me, there is an area that is a hex - although I think it might just be on once side of the axle.

As Sinclair mentioned, a breaker bar will help. I didn't have one so I literally had to jump on the 3/4" wrench to get it to break.

Keep at it. You'll figure it out.


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## davegravy

Harts said:


> Burning them in means going over them again and again. If you mowed in the same direction for 2-3 successive mows, they will start to really pop.
> 
> Getting your stripes to look good really takes time. As you have just experienced, mowing with a reel is a MUCH different experience. It will take a couple of weeks to get really get the hang of it.
> 
> What height are you cutting at right now?
> 
> As for removing the transport axles, it can be difficult but the method in the video does work. I stick my wrench on the inside and spin the wheel to move the axel until the wrench can fit into place. Trust me, there is an area that is a hex - although I think it might just be on once side of the axle.
> 
> As Sinclair mentioned, a breaker bar will help. I didn't have one so I literally had to jump on the 3/4" wrench to get it to break.
> 
> Keep at it. You'll figure it out.


Cutting at 1" right now. Thanks for the explaination about burning in.

I checked both sides while rotating the axle 360 degrees and I'm pretty sure it's perfectly circular ie nothing to grab with a wrench. Here's a pic



To be clear this is right next to the drum, there's obviously hex on the outer part that the wheel slips over.

Am I missing something or is my mower different?


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## davegravy

Success!

Slipped a few pieces of rebar straight through the drum (all I could find that was long, thin, and strong enough) which caused a jam against the red housing, and then jumped on the 3/4" wrench. Easier than I expected in the end.


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## Harts

:banana:


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## davegravy

Another mow today at 1". Not feeling ready to drop HOC as it's looking like it's maybe a bit stressed. There's a pattern of darker and lighter grass that I think people call washboarding - you can kind of see in the last picture I posted. It started with the manual reel mower when I got down to 1.25" and I was hoping it'd go away with the flex21 but it actually looks a little worse. I'm not sure if a lower HOC is going to improve that (I assume not)

I think I noticed that if I minimize the overlap on each pass the striping edges are crisper. Makes sense as you have fewer grass blades that are "confused" having been rolled in 2 opposite directions 

At 1" the general texture looks ok from afar but close up I feel like it could be better:



There's a mix of fairly upright growing plants and clumps of very lateral growth that makes it look a tiny bit patchy. From the plants I've pulled it's all KBG and PRG, not grassy weeds, but I think the lateral growth is mostly PRG. Unsure if this improves with lower HOC or what?

The left-most 2-3" of my reel aren't cutting paper, everywhere else along the reel cuts fine. Maybe the bedknife is a bit uneven there? I tried tightening the left side bedknife adjustment a couple clicks but it didn't improve it and I don't want to make the other contact points over aggressive so I backed it off.

I think I've decided not to use the flex21 on the front yard nomix. It just doesn't stripe well and looks like a dogs mess at 1", really highlighting the patchiness from different grass species. The manual reel at 1.5" looks far better. Eventually I'll reno it and then bring in the Flex.


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## Sinclair

Those clicks are tiny increments, something like 0.001" - keep clicking and checking until you're cutting paper everywhere.

You shouldn't be seeing washboarding at 1", the Flex has plenty of clip rate, and I don't see any at 5/8". I think you're just dealing with immature grass fresh out of a reno. It doesn't all stand up enough to get cut, so you see some blades staying longer and bent over. Also, depending on how smooth the yard is, if the very front roller is bouncing and making intermittent contact with the turf, that can give an uneven appearance.


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## Sinclair

As for the lateral vs. upright growth habit - I had this same complaint last season when I started with the reel.

It gets better with both time and lower HOC.


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## davegravy

Sinclair said:


> Also, depending on how smooth the yard is, if the very front roller is bouncing and making intermittent contact with the turf, that can give an uneven appearance.


Yeah I think this is the type of washboarding I'm talking about, maybe that's not the right term. With the manual reel I have a wavy-ness that is very small close together waves - about 1" spaced apart.

This is a bit different, they're more like 6-8" spaced apart, and I suspect they may be from soil undulations because the flex21 does bounce a bit while I cut.



Disappointing because I put a ton of effort into levelling when I did the reno, and I thought things were super smooth, but this is the fun of frost heaves and why people level with sand?


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## SNOWBOB11

Looks really good and the stripes are definitely becoming more pronounced.


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## g-man

Two things to try. Since you are adjusting the hoc, try the back and forth. Go in one direction then turn around and come back in the same path. This will help pick up the ones that are laying down.

Second, the waves you are seeing is more around always mowing in the same direction. Try to go at an angle so the weight of the machine helps to get things more flat.


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## davegravy

Thoughts on starting PGR?

I'm working from home and honestly am happy to need to go out for a mow break. I don't really care about the mowing frequency benefits, but if there's actually some turf quality enhancements I'd go for it.

I have Aneuw which I used last year on my nomix but I don't think it did anything other than slow growth. On a low mowed elite cultivar turf things might be a little different?


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## davegravy

g-man said:


> Two things to try. Since you are adjusting the hoc, try the back and forth. Go in one direction then turn around and come back in the same path. This will help pick up the ones that are laying down.
> 
> Second, the waves you are seeing is more around always mowing in the same direction. Try to go at an angle so the weight of the machine helps to get things more flat.


The second suggestion worked, I cut on a 45 deg angle and dropped to 7/8" HOC... the waviness is much better.

The first suggestion maybe helped a little bit but there's just a lot of plants that look like this



... A stem and some horizontal growth coming off right near the top. Doesn't contribute the nicest texture. Wonder if scalping it would encourage the leafs to grow from lower down?


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## Sinclair

Keep mowing low and those things will get sorted out. Sooner or later stems like those will get pulled up vertically into the reel.

Check out these carbide tipped mini aerator tines I bought.


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## davegravy

Sinclair said:


> Keep mowing low and those things will get sorted out. Sooner or later stems like those will get pulled up vertically into the reel.
> 
> Check out these carbide tipped mini aerator tines I bought.


Nice, what do they go in though? What kind of aerator do you have?


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## Sinclair

@davegravy I'm building a manual aerator with smaller side eject tines, because I'm sick of the mess my Fiskars aerator makes.

But really I just needed a semi relevant photo to let you know I noticed your ring.


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## davegravy

Sinclair said:


> @davegravy I'm building a manual aerator with smaller side eject tines, because I'm sick of the mess my Fiskars aerator makes.
> 
> But really I just needed a semi relevant photo to let you know I noticed your ring.


OMG how did I miss that, lol. Nice 

@Stuofsci02 is also an engineer, I guess the science of lawncare is a bit of a lure to our kind. School? (so I can figure out if you're friend or frenemy )


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## Sinclair

davegravy said:


> Sinclair said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy I'm building a manual aerator with smaller side eject tines, because I'm sick of the mess my Fiskars aerator makes.
> 
> But really I just needed a semi relevant photo to let you know I noticed your ring.
> 
> 
> 
> OMG how did I miss that, lol. Nice
> 
> @Stuofsci02 is also an engineer, I guess the science of lawncare is a bit of a lure to our kind. School? (so I can figure out if you're friend or frenemy )
Click to expand...

UofT Mechanical 2005


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## davegravy

Sinclair said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sinclair said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy I'm building a manual aerator with smaller side eject tines, because I'm sick of the mess my Fiskars aerator makes.
> 
> But really I just needed a semi relevant photo to let you know I noticed your ring.
> 
> 
> 
> OMG how did I miss that, lol. Nice
> 
> @Stuofsci02 is also an engineer, I guess the science of lawncare is a bit of a lure to our kind. School? (so I can figure out if you're friend or frenemy )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UofT Mechanical 2005
Click to expand...

Ah nice, I'm Queen's Electrical '05


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## Sinclair

@davegravy so frenemies it is! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Harts

Sport Management Degree from Brock. Yes, Brock. Proof you don't need to be smart to take care of grass.

.....sorry are we talking about lawn care or how smart you guys are :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## davegravy

Sinclair said:


> @davegravy so frenemies it is! :lol: :lol: :lol:


We still have your grease pole :mrgreen: :lol: :dancenana:


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## Sinclair

The pole is ours, the grease is all yours.

We had custody of the pole for a short while when I was frosh. It was cut in half to fit in the heist vehicle, then welded back together and erected in our cafeteria.


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## Sinclair

Harts said:


> Sport Management Degree from Brock. Yes, Brock. Proof you don't need to be smart to take care of grass.
> 
> .....sorry are we talking about lawn care or how smart you guys are :lol: :lol: :lol:


You probably had girls in your class.


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## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Sinclair said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy so frenemies it is! :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> We still have your grease pole :mrgreen: :lol: :dancenana:
Click to expand...

Amen brother! Sci '02


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## davegravy

So much rain and cold.

Double mowed and really loving the cut quality from this mower.



That said the colour and uniformity does look better in the pic than to my eyes. I'm not sure if it's still just adjusting to the lower HOC but the turf seems like it's struggling a bit.

I'm seeing more and more yellowing blades and a bit of thinning, so I'm starting to think about fungicides. It's been cool out, but I don't think the grass has really dried out in a week. The yellowing is throughout and has a patchiness to it - it's not limited to certain areas.

I have about 0.7lbs/M of N from AMS down so far and I'm going to drop another 0.25lbs/M today probably.


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## jrubb42

Those stripes are starting to burn in a little bit! They look great. But you're right, it does look like it has a yellow "tinge" to it. The wet weather probably is not helping at all.


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## Stuofsci02

Hey... looking great... I would stay patient and not try to do too much at once.. Give the grass a month to fully adjust with 2-3 cuts per week.. it will happen..


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## Stuofsci02

@davegravy .. With it being sunny finally today, take another look and see what it looks like in the sun.. It always looks way better IMO than on cloudy days..


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## Harts

I agree with Stu. We have better weather coming. Ride it out until the end of the month and see how it looks.

You're off to a great start. Do yourself a favor and take a look at a pic of when you first joined TLF. I remember what it looked like. You've come a long way.


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## davegravy

Harts said:


> I agree with Stu. We have better weather coming. Ride it out until the end of the month and see how it looks.
> 
> You're off to a great start. Do yourself a favor and take a look at a pic of when you first joined TLF. I remember what it looked like. You've come a long way.


I do go back and look at those pics from time to time when I need cheering up :lol: I certainly didn't think back then that I'd be taking things this seriously.


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## Babameca

Oh man. I have so much to catch with here... Dave, looks amazing man!
Few things. Mu opinion only:
- watch for fungus, but you have none. Back off on N a bit. If you need to mow every other day, start PGR. 1/2 dose. Mix it with FAS.
- I have waves too. Look at my early 2020 posts. Cutting at angle helps with looks, but never fixes the underlying problem. I've started the sand topdresssing for this reason. It works, but you'll need to do it often and for a very long time (not because of what we chatted about on PM, but simply because of winters...).
- And finally, I am jealous :lol:


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## davegravy

Thanks @Babameca. I'm conflicted about PGR because I like cutting every 2 days 😛

Does everyone agree I shouldn't settle for this cut quality?

Pretty sure my rotary cuts cleaner than this, and the tearing is really hurting my colour. If I tighten the bed knife adjustment any more I start to hear scraping contact and I don't want to ruin the reel 🤔...


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## synergy0852

I wouldn't be happy with that quality of cut on my GM1600. Something is wrong. Have you tried back lapping it quick to see if you can get the reel and bedknife to mate better? With the GM1600 I actually set it to have slight contact....something like .0001" of contact per the manual. I'm unsure what the procedure is for the Flex however, but the manual should reveal that for you.


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## SNOWBOB11

That cut does look a bit rough. The cut on my JD has basically no tear to it. Is it cutting paper clean without bending the paper? When it's sharp it should cut paper with very little effort of turning the reel. I agree you should try to backlap and see if you see a improvement.


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## davegravy

synergy0852 said:


> I wouldn't be happy with that quality of cut on my GM1600. Something is wrong. Have you tried back lapping it quick to see if you can get the reel and bedknife to mate better? With the GM1600 I actually set it to have slight contact....something like .0001" of contact per the manual. I'm unsure what the procedure is for the Flex however, but the manual should reveal that for you.


I haven't tried backlapping... The reel was freshly ground a couple weeks ago so I didn't expect it should need any, maybe I should try though.

I'll have a look through the manual and see what it says on the knife adjustment.


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## synergy0852

Last year I had mine ground and they must have messed something up a touch because I had same issue until I mated the two surfaces together with a light backlapping and then I followed the manual to set the reel to bedknife with a feeler gauge. From that point on it cut excellent. You'll know you got it right when you don't see that stringy appearance on the tips after a mow. From my experience you're looking for a cut you'd get from a scissors and after a day or two you should see very minimal brown on the tip if any at all.


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## davegravy

SNOWBOB11 said:


> That cut does look a bit rough. The cut on my JD has basically no tear to it. Is it cutting paper clean without bending the paper? When it's sharp it should cut paper with very little effort of turning the reel. I agree you should try to backlap and see if you see a improvement.


It does cut paper clean except for the outer couple inches on the left and right. I tried tightening the adjustment until even the end of the reel cut paper cleanly, but then there was a lot of grinding noise with the reel engaged, so I backed it off

I'm not sure the torn grass is just grass that got cut by the outside of the reel... There'd be a pattern if that were the case, wouldn't there?


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## davegravy

synergy0852 said:


> Last year I had mine ground and they must have messed something up a touch because I had same issue until I mated the two surfaces together with a light backlapping and then I followed the manual to set the reel to bedknife with a feeler gauge. From that point on it cut excellent. You'll know you got it right when you don't see that stringy appearance on the tips after a mow. From my experience you're looking for a cut you'd get from a scissors and after a day or two you should see very minimal brown on the tip if any at all.


Great thanks, I will try this.


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## Babameca

@davegravy After a fresh ground, the few minutes you remove a massive amount of reel material (don't ask my how I know). Check paper cut (folded! if not thick enough) and adjust gap. Here is me at 2nd mow after ground, and after adjustment.


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## BBLOCK

and another reel low mowing junkie created by this forum...

grats on getting a reel mower and having it now for a full season with it on a brand new lawn. pretty fun!


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## Stuofsci02

Tighten the reel to bed knife.. they should make slight contact... did they tell you that they back it off two clicks for transport?


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## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> Tighten the reel to bed knife.. they should make slight contact... did they tell you that they back it off two clicks for transport?


They told me they backed it off 5 clicks for transport. But when I tightened it 5 clicks it didn't cut paper, so <shrug>.

Picked up the necessary metric socket and going to try a bit of backlapping this weekend.


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## Sinclair

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tighten the reel to bed knife.. they should make slight contact... did they tell you that they back it off two clicks for transport?
> 
> 
> 
> They told me they backed it off 5 clicks for transport. But when I tightened it 5 clicks it didn't cut paper, so <shrug>.
> 
> Picked up the necessary metric socket and going to try a bit of backlapping this weekend.
Click to expand...

Did the machine come with a fresh reel and bed knife? You shouldn't need to back lap already. Keep clicking until you cut paper.


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## davegravy

Sinclair said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tighten the reel to bed knife.. they should make slight contact... did they tell you that they back it off two clicks for transport?
> 
> 
> 
> They told me they backed it off 5 clicks for transport. But when I tightened it 5 clicks it didn't cut paper, so <shrug>.
> 
> Picked up the necessary metric socket and going to try a bit of backlapping this weekend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the machine come with a fresh reel and bed knife? You shouldn't need to back lap already. Keep clicking until you cut paper.
Click to expand...

New bed knife, but used reel with a fresh grind.

I want to keep clicking but it's contacting at the middle and making abrasive noise, yet still not cutting at the ends. I read you don't want too much contact noise as overtightening can damage the reel.

I'm guessing despite the grinding, the used reel is a bit bowed? Perhaps it wasn't ground enough?


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Sinclair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> They told me they backed it off 5 clicks for transport. But when I tightened it 5 clicks it didn't cut paper, so <shrug>.
> 
> Picked up the necessary metric socket and going to try a bit of backlapping this weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> Did the machine come with a fresh reel and bed knife? You shouldn't need to back lap already. Keep clicking until you cut paper.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> New bed knife, but used reel with a fresh grind.
> 
> I want to keep clicking but it's contacting at the middle and making abrasive noise, yet still not cutting at the ends. I read you don't want too much contact noise as overtightening can damage the reel.
> 
> I'm guessing despite the grinding, the used reel is a bit bowed? Perhaps it wasn't ground enough?
Click to expand...

Dave,

If you adjust so it cuts paper at the edges, can you still spin the reel by hand? If so is it hard to do?


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sinclair said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did the machine come with a fresh reel and bed knife? You shouldn't need to back lap already. Keep clicking until you cut paper.
> 
> 
> 
> New bed knife, but used reel with a fresh grind.
> 
> I want to keep clicking but it's contacting at the middle and making abrasive noise, yet still not cutting at the ends. I read you don't want too much contact noise as overtightening can damage the reel.
> 
> I'm guessing despite the grinding, the used reel is a bit bowed? Perhaps it wasn't ground enough?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dave,
> 
> If you adjust so it cuts paper at the edges, can you still spin the reel by hand? If so is it hard to do?
Click to expand...

For sure it still spins by hand, but it gets significantly louder.

Even when the bed knife is backed right off the reel is pretty tough to spin. I've seen videos where people give it a push and it'll do a half rotation on its own. Mine is pretty damped and stops pretty quick. Dunno if this means the bearings are worn or what.

When I tighten bedknife to the point it cuts at the edges then it gets noticeably harder to turn, but not by a huge amount. Maybe I'll get a chance to do a little video this weekend and that'll give a clearer description.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy I've had similar challenges at the beginning (I mean finding the perfect balance). The most scientific way to measure gap is with a feeler gauge. You will have to find what is the spec for your particular model. My reel is not turning freely and it only cuts thick paper.


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> New bed knife, but used reel with a fresh grind.
> 
> I want to keep clicking but it's contacting at the middle and making abrasive noise, yet still not cutting at the ends. I read you don't want too much contact noise as overtightening can damage the reel.
> 
> I'm guessing despite the grinding, the used reel is a bit bowed? Perhaps it wasn't ground enough?
> 
> 
> 
> Dave,
> 
> If you adjust so it cuts paper at the edges, can you still spin the reel by hand? If so is it hard to do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For sure it still spins by hand, but it gets significantly louder.
> 
> Even when the bed knife is backed right off the reel is pretty tough to spin. I've seen videos where people give it a push and it'll do a half rotation on its own. Mine is pretty damped and stops pretty quick. Dunno if this means the bearings are worn or what.
> 
> When I tighten bedknife to the point it cuts at the edges then it gets noticeably harder to turn, but not by a huge amount. Maybe I'll get a chance to do a little video this weekend and that'll give a clearer description.
Click to expand...

Dave,

I'll assume you do not have the reel engaged when you are trying to do this :lol: If your reel has a new grind I would be more inclined to think that your bedknife is slightly warped. Have you tried setting it to cut paper all the way across and used it? My guess is it is probably ok, and your understandably nervous to over adjust. I don't really give it much thought with mine. I just adjust to where it cuts paper and let it rip... I do find that the middle cuts paper before the edges. Maybe you have the same and just need to give it a go..


----------



## Harts

^ I find the same thing - the middle cuts before the ends. My reel also doesn't appear to spin as freely as others I see on YT.


----------



## davegravy

@Stuofsci02 the Turfcare invoice lists a brand new highcut bedknife so I wouldn't think it'd be warped but who knows.

Thanks guys, that gives me some comfort... I guess worst case if I over-tighten it I just need a fresh grind right?


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> @Stuofsci02 the Turfcare invoice lists a brand new highcut bedknife so I wouldn't think it'd be warped but who knows.
> 
> Thanks guys, that gives me some comfort... I guess worst case if I over-tighten it I just need a fresh grind right?


I think you'll be fine.. I doubt you would even need a grind.. Just a backlap.. If you can still spin it by hand there is not much friction..


----------



## Harts

@davegravy do you have backlapping compound?


----------



## davegravy

Harts said:


> @davegravy do you have backlapping compound?


I do, I got some for my manual push mower off Amazon last fall.


----------



## Harts

Ok. I asked because I have quite a bit a former TLF member gave me last Summer.


----------



## davegravy

Harts said:


> Ok. I asked because I have quite a bit a former TLF member gave me last Summer.


My stuff arrived very dry from Amazon. It's workable but if it dries up much more I may need to toss it. I have it in a ziplock that'll hopefully help it survive. Thanks for the offer I'll keep that in mind.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Harts said:


> Ok. I asked because I have quite a bit a former TLF member gave me last Summer.


Spread the wealth..... I think I know who you got it from..


----------



## Harts

Stuofsci02 said:


> Harts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. I asked because I have quite a bit a former TLF member gave me last Summer.
> 
> 
> 
> Spread the wealth..... I think I know who you got it from..
Click to expand...

You're too far..... :lol:


----------



## BBLOCK

Harts said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. I asked because I have quite a bit a former TLF member gave me last Summer.
> 
> 
> 
> Spread the wealth..... I think I know who you got it from..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're too far..... :lol:
Click to expand...

that's why you were suppose to move next to him


----------



## davegravy

Ok, so I tightened the bed knife adjustment and also did some backlapping. Cutting thin paper across the full reel now. In a couple days I'll check for frayed grass blades... Fingers crossed.

I'm about at the end of my tether with FAS. I've tried a variety of rates and I either get no noticeable effect or it makes the grass look sickly. I've tried with and without citric acid mixed in. I feel like I must be doing something wrong. When I apply enough to see a difference it looks pretty bad by day 2, then it starts looking less bad.

What I'm not sure about is after it recovers if it's darker than before the application.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Can we see some pics?


----------



## SNOWBOB11

davegravy said:


> Ok, so I tightened the bed knife adjustment and also did some backlapping. Cutting thin paper across the full reel now. In a couple days I'll check for frayed grass blades... Fingers crossed.
> 
> I'm about at the end of my tether with FAS. I've tried a variety of rates and I either get no noticeable effect or it makes the grass look sickly. I've tried with and without citric acid mixed in. I feel like I must be doing something wrong. When I apply enough to see a difference it looks pretty bad by day 2, then it starts looking less bad.
> 
> What I'm not sure about is after it recovers if it's darker than before the application.


I have had a similar experience at times when I mixed my own iron. That was one of the reasons I switched to feature. Since I have the color response has been much improved. I use little less than 2oz/k on the first app of the year then 2oz for the rest of the season. Basically zero black lawn. Even with overlap.


----------



## Stuofsci02

SNOWBOB11 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so I tightened the bed knife adjustment and also did some backlapping. Cutting thin paper across the full reel now. In a couple days I'll check for frayed grass blades... Fingers crossed.
> 
> I'm about at the end of my tether with FAS. I've tried a variety of rates and I either get no noticeable effect or it makes the grass look sickly. I've tried with and without citric acid mixed in. I feel like I must be doing something wrong. When I apply enough to see a difference it looks pretty bad by day 2, then it starts looking less bad.
> 
> What I'm not sure about is after it recovers if it's darker than before the application.
> 
> 
> 
> I have had a similar experience at times when I mixed my own iron. That was one of the reasons I switched to feature. Since I have the color response has been much improved. I use little less than 2oz/k on the first app of the year then 2oz for the rest of the season. Basically zero black lawn.
Click to expand...

Where are you getting the feature if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## SNOWBOB11

@Stuofsci02. @SumBeach35 Sells it and was good enough to send 3 bags to me.


----------



## Stuofsci02

SNOWBOB11 said:


> @Stuofsci02. @SumBeach35 Sells it and was good enough to send 3 bags to me.


Sounds good. I assume it came from the US?


----------



## SumBeach35

I am going to do more digging on if i can start providing FEature to Canada.


----------



## davegravy

SNOWBOB11 said:


> I have had a similar experience at times when I mixed my own iron. That was one of the reasons I switched to feature. Since I have the color response has been much improved. I use little less than 2oz/k on the first app of the year then 2oz for the rest of the season. Basically zero black lawn. Even with overlap.


Interesting you mention overlap. I noticed the discolouration is happening in distinct stripes that align with my spray direction which leads me to believe my spray technique is not as good as it could be.

I'm seriously leaning towards Feature but I may get out on the driveway and do some spraying practice to see if I can tweak my method a bit as I bought a pile of FS I don't want to waste. I have a pretty good teejet nozzle FWIW.


----------



## davegravy

SumBeach35 said:


> I am going to do more digging on if i can start providing FEature to Canada.


This please  I contacted the manufacturer a few different ways to see about setting up local distribution and got no response.


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> Can we see some pics?


On the road at the moment or I'd snap a bunch more but I took this yesterday.


----------



## Stuofsci02

@davegravy that is looking really good. I was looking at you starting point the other day... what a difference. Congrats!


----------



## Harts

Looks awesome. It's easy to forget how patient we need to be with the grass.

Keep doing everything you're doing. It's going to look mint in September.


----------



## davegravy

Thanks guys, don't mean to sound ungrateful and of course the lawn is doing really well

BUT it does look better in pictures than to the naked eye, and I'm sure I'm not the only one around here who is never quite satisfied / is driven to keep improving their lawn 😛

@Harts totally with you here... it's hard to resist the urge to keep tinkering, so often all it needs is time (other than basic maintenance).


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy I have the complete opposite experience. Pics look crap to what it is. Many people that came by share my point. They've seen pictures but all do say that pics don't give justice to the real experience.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy I have the complete opposite experience. Pics look crap to what it is. Many people that came by share my point. They've seen pictures but all do say that pics don't give justice to the real experience.


Well that's not a bad problem to have considering your pics look darned good - so you must be doing very well 😊


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy :nod: :bandit: Hanging there. Lawn stepped down one this season so far, But I will be back.


----------



## Sinclair

@davegravy every lawn photo on the internet has the benefit of distance and viewing angle.

Being right on top of the same turf plot every day makes us painfully aware of the issues.


----------



## davegravy

Tearing from the string trimmer at this HOC is really killing me. Lawn scissors going on the wish list.



Also you can see some of the yellow haze I've had for a few weeks...it's no longer from the reel trearing the blades since I tweaked the bedknife adjustment, I think it's melting out.

It hasn't been getting worse, wondering if I should drop some propi.


----------



## Harts

Looking really good. How much do you hate that fence now?????


----------



## davegravy

Harts said:


> Looking really good. How much do you hate that fence now?????


Yeah not such a fan. My old lady neighbour loves it - she pulls a lawn chair into her backyard and she sits there just to enjoy my grass. I'm going to feel like a real a-hole when I put up a wood privacy fence but the chainlink is just not fun and I have no idea who will move in next door when she moves out... maybe someone like these clowns:


----------



## davegravy

Observation:

My front lawn which is shaded doesn't respond to the fall N blitz and thicken up because by the time the tree leaves drop and it gets sunlight, it's too cold for the grass to really get growing. It just kind of stunts, then gets powdery mildew from all the N building up & not getting consumed.

This spring I've been trying an N blitz and it's had an incredible thickening up (the tree leaves just finally bloomed). I think the front yard will be a spring nitrogen blitz from now on, instead of fall.


----------



## Babameca

On top of tearing up (which I had too) a slow spring green up is what I think happening. Late green up is panicle of KBG but even more for Everest. Look at @jrubb42 trial plot. I wouldn't consider fungus, but hey, my azoxy is down a week ago.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> On top of tearing up (which I had too) a slow spring green up is what I think happening. Late green up is panicle of KBG but even more for Everest. Look at @jrubb42 trial plot. I wouldn't consider fungus, but hey, my azoxy is down a week ago.


I'm not sure because

a) it was much more green and healthy looking in mid to late April.

b) my old nomix lawn did the same thing last May but much more severe and a bit more localized. It recovered a few weeks later without treatment.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Did you try to investigate closer the blades. If propi is your strategy, just a reminder to adjust your PGR rates.


----------



## jrubb42

Have you investigated the leaf blades in the yellow areas? I just found leaf spot in my front yard yesterday, which I thought was early, but it's definitely there.


----------



## jrubb42

Definitely look at the leaf blades in the yellow area. I found leaf spot on my front yard yesterday which I thought was early, but it's definitely there.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy Did you try to investigate closer the blades. If propi is your strategy, just a reminder to adjust your PGR rates.


@jrubb42





I might have more work to do on my bed knife adjustment, still seeing some torn blades - or these might be ones that were torn earlier and haven't grown out yet.


----------



## davegravy

Running irrigation audit tonight


Tomorrow will need to run the rotary to pick up all the maple keys that blew in with the windstorm.


----------



## Chuuurles

It looked great before, but the stripes are so clean now :thumbup:


----------



## davegravy

Audit didn't go too well &#128532;

For a 60 minute cycle I got between 0.2" and 0.8" per cup. Mainly the low points were along the edges of the lawn. Short of redesigning the system (which I'll likely do when I go in-ground) I'm not sure I can improve this much. I already have the heads adjusted so they're watering several feet of the neighbour's garden through the fence. Oh well, at least now I know.

Think I'll target 60 minutes twice a week, try to hand water the edges, and just keep a close eye for drought stress.


----------



## Stuofsci02

What kind of rotors are those? Are you running the 180 degree heads with nozzles that are twice the flow as the 90 degree nozzles?


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> What kind of rotors are those? Are you running the 180 degree heads with nozzles that are twice the flow as the 90 degree nozzles?


mp-3000s. Lawn is a perfect square:

I have 4x90deg - one in each corner, 4x180deg - one on each edge, and one 360deg in the middle. Each zone has 360deg worth of coverage, so for example one zone has 2x90deg and 1x180deg.

From the hunter datasheet, yes the 180deg units have ~2x the flow of the 90s

Even though the mp-3000s are advertised to cover 30ft, I have them spaced 25ft apart, and I have them opened up fully I don't quite get head-to-head coverage. Part of that may be my house's crappy supply line, but I remember even when I only had 1 unit per zone during testing the range was falling well short of advertised.

Several people confirmed range shortfalls are common, so I think I probably just need a tighter head spacing (again, once I bury and redesign the system)


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of rotors are those? Are you running the 180 degree heads with nozzles that are twice the flow as the 90 degree nozzles?
> 
> 
> 
> mp-3000s. Lawn is a perfect square:
> 
> I have 4x90deg - one in each corner, 4x180deg - one on each edge, and one 360deg in the middle. Each zone has 360deg worth of coverage, so for example one zone has 2x90deg and 1x180deg.
> 
> From the hunter datasheet, yes the 180deg units have ~2x the flow of the 90s
> 
> Even though the mp-3000s are advertised to cover 30ft, I have them spaced 25ft apart, and I have them opened up fully I don't quite get head-to-head coverage. Part of that may be my house's crappy supply line, but I remember even when I only had 1 unit per zone during testing the range was falling well short of advertised.
> 
> Several people confirmed range shortfalls are common, so I think I probably just need a tighter head spacing (again, once I bury and redesign the system)
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have it is good as it can get. I know a lot of the time the standard nozzles are left in and then coverage is uneven.. My [email protected]$$ irrigation installer did that, so I needed to change out every nozzle.


----------



## mucknine

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of rotors are those? Are you running the 180 degree heads with nozzles that are twice the flow as the 90 degree nozzles?
> 
> 
> 
> mp-3000s. Lawn is a perfect square:
> 
> I have 4x90deg - one in each corner, 4x180deg - one on each edge, and one 360deg in the middle. Each zone has 360deg worth of coverage, so for example one zone has 2x90deg and 1x180deg.
> 
> From the hunter datasheet, yes the 180deg units have ~2x the flow of the 90s
> 
> Even though the mp-3000s are advertised to cover 30ft, I have them spaced 25ft apart, and I have them opened up fully I don't quite get head-to-head coverage. Part of that may be my house's crappy supply line, but I remember even when I only had 1 unit per zone during testing the range was falling well short of advertised.
> 
> Several people confirmed range shortfalls are common, so I think I probably just need a tighter head spacing (again, once I bury and redesign the system)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like you have it is good as it can get. I know a lot of the time the standard nozzles are left in and then coverage is uneven.. My [email protected]$$ irrigation installer did that, so I needed to change out every nozzle.
Click to expand...

Why aren't irrigation guys better at being irrigation guys? You have one job to do!

My setup is brutal, uneven spacing, no head-to-head coverage, crazy overspray, so many zones... it would be a great case study for what not to do on an irrigation install.

Super nice guys though, so they have that going for them.


----------



## Babameca

Your cut quality is not awesome (read pretty good), but there is something else (lower on the blades) going on. Being a complete zero on fungus ID, I would guess it looks like BP. I wouldn't worry, but definitely monitor. Run your mower at 90 degrees. Waving is noticeable and even sand top dressing will take forever to correct. Perpendicular mow will make it look SLICK!
Full audit on its way! :lol:


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> Your cut quality is not awesome (read pretty good), but there is something else (lower on the blades) going on. Being a complete zero on fungus ID, I would guess it looks like BP. I wouldn't worry, but definitely monitor. Run your mower at 90 degrees. Waving is noticeable and even sand top dressing will take forever to correct. Perpendicular mow will make it look SLICK!
> Full audit on its way! :lol:


Thanks. I'd been alternating mow angle back and forth by 45deg. You think 90 will look even better?


----------



## Babameca

I saw the marks (at 45). I personally settled on 90. Try it, nothing to lose and at your almost square yard, it should be as easy. I was also disappointed of the water test. Just changed my Amazon heads for H2H coverage Rainbirds 5000's and while I got that part, watering consistency went way off! Corners are always a struggle.


----------



## Stuofsci02

mucknine said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> mp-3000s. Lawn is a perfect square:
> 
> I have 4x90deg - one in each corner, 4x180deg - one on each edge, and one 360deg in the middle. Each zone has 360deg worth of coverage, so for example one zone has 2x90deg and 1x180deg.
> 
> From the hunter datasheet, yes the 180deg units have ~2x the flow of the 90s
> 
> Even though the mp-3000s are advertised to cover 30ft, I have them spaced 25ft apart, and I have them opened up fully I don't quite get head-to-head coverage. Part of that may be my house's crappy supply line, but I remember even when I only had 1 unit per zone during testing the range was falling well short of advertised.
> 
> Several people confirmed range shortfalls are common, so I think I probably just need a tighter head spacing (again, once I bury and redesign the system)
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you have it is good as it can get. I know a lot of the time the standard nozzles are left in and then coverage is uneven.. My [email protected]$$ irrigation installer did that, so I needed to change out every nozzle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why aren't irrigation guys better at being irrigation guys? You have one job to do!
> 
> My setup is brutal, uneven spacing, no head-to-head coverage, crazy overspray, so many zones... it would be a great case study for what not to do on an irrigation install.
> 
> Super nice guys though, so they have that going for them.
Click to expand...

My first guy was awful. I have a new guy who is an older gentlemen. Must be 70.. He is very good..


----------



## davegravy

@Babameca 90 degrees just for you!


----------



## Chuuurles

:nod: Dude!


----------



## Chuuurles

davegravy said:


> @Babameca 90 degrees just for you!


:nod: Dude!

I also cut @ 90 degrees today but it looks awful.


----------



## Babameca

Oh NICE!!! Completely killed the waving . Now just wait for the fall colour!


----------



## hammerhead

Have been following your journal. Great progress. And @Babameca was right, the perpendicular checkerboard pattern really visually took your lawn to another level. Now you'll always spend double the time for mowing
Cheers!

PS: Another suggestion: double stripes?


----------



## davegravy

hammerhead said:


> Have been following your journal. Great progress. And @Babameca was right, the perpendicular checkerboard pattern really visually took your lawn to another level. Now you'll always spend double the time for mowing
> Cheers!
> 
> PS: Another suggestion: double stripes?


Thanks! And you read my mind with the double stripes


----------



## Harts

That's the best one yet.

That's a good photo angle for you too.


----------



## davegravy

Chuuurles said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Babameca 90 degrees just for you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :nod: Dude!
> 
> I also cut @ 90 degrees today but it looks awful.
Click to expand...

I tried it on my front yard at 90 deg when I first got the flex21 and didn't like it. Goes to show how every lawn has its own personality and there's no one-size-fits-all approach.


----------



## davegravy

Harts said:


> That's the best one yet.
> 
> That's a good photo angle for you too.


Thanks! You're right about the photo angle and to be frank it feels a bit dishonest, but hey - supermodels have their good side/angle too right?


----------



## Harts

davegravy said:


> Harts said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's the best one yet.
> 
> That's a good photo angle for you too.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! You're right about the photo angle and to be frank it feels a bit dishonest, but hey - supermodels have their good side/angle too right?
Click to expand...

There are no points on here for honesty. I don't know a single person that doesn't take pics at the best angles.

The more you cut with the Flex, the better your lawn will continue to look. Your photos in September will be miles ahead of what they look like now.


----------



## davegravy

Thanks Harts!

2nd monthly app of P, K and sulphur today.

1.25lbs/M of K from SOP
0.5lbs/M of P from MAP
2.5lbs/M of sulphur

Then finished off the day spraying Anuew @ 0.25oz/M


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Thanks Harts!
> 
> 2nd monthly app of P, K and sulphur today.
> 
> 1.25lbs/M of K from SOP
> 0.5lbs/M of P from MAP
> 2.5lbs/M of sulphur
> 
> Then finished off the day spraying Anuew @ 0.25oz/M


Looks really good. The flex 21 takes it to a new level.. where did you get the sop, map and sulphur?


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Harts!
> 
> 2nd monthly app of P, K and sulphur today.
> 
> 1.25lbs/M of K from SOP
> 0.5lbs/M of P from MAP
> 2.5lbs/M of sulphur
> 
> Then finished off the day spraying Anuew @ 0.25oz/M
> 
> 
> 
> Looks really good. The flex 21 takes it to a new level.. where did you get the sop, map and sulphur?
Click to expand...

Thanks.

It's all from Allturf.ca, delivered to my driveway. Also picked up sprayable and non-sprayable AMS from them.

I like the idea of having separate products for N, P, K so I can just keep a good supply of everything and mix in whatever ratio makes sense based on soil tests, how hard I want to push the throttle (N), and time of year (no K in the fall)

A bit more work to mix them but the ultimate in flexibility.


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Harts!
> 
> 2nd monthly app of P, K and sulphur today.
> 
> 1.25lbs/M of K from SOP
> 0.5lbs/M of P from MAP
> 2.5lbs/M of sulphur
> 
> Then finished off the day spraying Anuew @ 0.25oz/M
> 
> 
> 
> Looks really good. The flex 21 takes it to a new level.. where did you get the sop, map and sulphur?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> It's all from Allturf.ca, delivered to my driveway. Also picked up sprayable and non-sprayable AMS from them.
> 
> I like the idea of having separate products for N, P, K so I can just keep a good supply of everything and mix in whatever ratio makes sense based on soil tests, how hard I want to push the throttle (N), and time of year (no K in the fall)
> 
> A bit more work to mix them but the ultimate in flexibility.
Click to expand...

Yeah I like that idea.. I will give them a call! Thanks!


----------



## davegravy

Experimenting with camera and sun angle. This time in the AM the other side of the yard works best.

The theme seems to be having the sun behind me. The same photography rule applies I think to shooting things like food.



Shed is begging for some love (paint job). Soliciting opinions on colour... what goes well with elite KBG? Wife gets final say (sorry).


----------



## JBC-1

davegravy said:


> Experimenting with camera and sun angle. This time in the AM the other side of the yard works best.
> 
> The theme seems to be having the sun behind me. The same photography rule applies I think to shooting things like food.
> 
> 
> 
> Shed is begging for some love (paint job). Soliciting opinions on colour... what goes well with elite KBG? Wife gets final say (sorry).


Wow...@davegravy your lawn looks amazing. I hope to get to that level one day. For the shed, my vote would be a light grey.


----------



## SodFace

Looking amazing dude! Hard work paying off big time.

I also vote light grey.


----------



## Pascal-lawn

davegravy said:


> Wife gets final say (sorry).


Isnt that the case for pretty much everything :lol: ? One thing i've learned quick is a happy wife is happy life.

Your yard looks super good. Its very interesting to tag along the progression via your journal. Keep up the good work !


----------



## bernstem

Looking great. Maybe match the shed to the house color, or something similar?


----------



## Sinclair

Get your neighbour to paint a mural on your shed. :lol:

Your lawn is looking incredible!


----------



## davegravy

Sinclair said:


> Get your neighbour to paint a mural on your shed. :lol:
> 
> Your lawn is looking incredible!


Thanks!

Haha yeah, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em


----------



## davegravy

A couple spots where I nuked some Triv and then used the pro-plugger... I've been periodically sprinkling a few AMS granules and hand watering, to try and encourage the fill-in.

The grass is noticeably greener, thicker, and healthier looking in these two spots.



It makes me think the whole lawn would be happier if I pushed more N. I'm already up to 1.3lbs N/M this spring from AMS, the last app being 0.25lb a week ago.

Who thinks I should push some more?


----------



## Sinclair

@davegravy where'd you get the AMS?


----------



## Harts

^^^^^ This guy above will definitely want you to push more.

I don't see any harm in pushing the boundary this Spring. Push it and see how it responds.

Your grass looks great. It will continue to even out with repeated N and iron. Have you dropped PGR yet? I found that made a difference for me too.


----------



## davegravy

Sinclair said:


> @davegravy where'd you get the AMS?


Allturf.ca

It's Magic Carpet brand


----------



## davegravy

Great hanging out with @Babameca yesterday evening and showing him my setup. Also @Chuuurles the week before!

So good to meet people in real life who are as obsessed with turf as I am, I feel like a bit less of a freak now 😛


----------



## davegravy

Took a stab at double-wides. Need to work on my technique, I had to go over it a bunch of times to get clean lines/contrast.



Considered doing a 90 deg cut but was already burning up outside... so next time.


----------



## JBC-1

davegravy said:


> Took a stab at double-wides. Need to work on my technique, I had to go over it a bunch of times to get clean lines/contrast.
> 
> 
> 
> Considered doing a 90 deg cut but was already burning up outside... so next time.


That looks really good!


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Took a stab at double-wides. Need to work on my technique, I had to go over it a bunch of times to get clean lines/contrast.
> 
> 
> 
> Considered doing a 90 deg cut but was already burning up outside... so next time.


Looks great.. I am a fan of the double wide... I think there is no better stripe.. getting the lines straight on the double wide take some practice, but I found the easiest way is to go down 1 -> back 1 -> down 1 -> back 2 -> down 2. -> back 2 -> down 3 -> back 3 -> down 3 -> back 4 -> down 4 -> back 4. Then you start the pattern again. You will need to come back at the end and do on more stripe next to down 1 in the same direction to finish it. This pattern works well since you get a chance to fix every line as you go.

Cheers also to @Babameca for stopping by this morning. Was great to meet you!


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took a stab at double-wides. Need to work on my technique, I had to go over it a bunch of times to get clean lines/contrast.
> 
> 
> 
> Considered doing a 90 deg cut but was already burning up outside... so next time.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great.. I am a fan of the double wide... I think there is no better stripe.. getting the lines straight on the double wide take some practice, but I found the easiest way is to go down 1 -> back 1 -> down 1 -> back 2 -> down 2. -> back 2 -> down 3 -> back 3 -> down 3 -> back 4 -> down 4 -> back 4. Then you start the pattern again. You will need to come back at the end and do on more stripe next to down 1 in the same direction to finish it. This pattern works well since you get a chance to fix every line as you go.
> 
> Cheers also to @Babameca for stopping by this morning. Was great to meet you!
Click to expand...

If I'm interpreting your pattern right, I *think* this is what I did. The challenge I found was stripes which had been "reversed" (rolled one direction and then flipped) were not as solid as stripes which were rolled once and then let be. Even re-rolling a flipped stripe a 2nd time in the desired direction was still inferior.

I'm really splitting hairs here I know 😛


----------



## Harts

Your stripes looks really good. We'll done!


----------



## Babameca

My pleasure boys! @Stuofsci02 @davegravy


----------



## Chuuurles

davegravy said:


> Took a stab at double-wides. Need to work on my technique, I had to go over it a bunch of times to get clean lines/contrast.
> 
> 
> 
> Considered doing a 90 deg cut but was already burning up outside... so next time.


Loving the double stripes, can't wait to see it cut at 90 degrees like this!


----------



## davegravy

Almost did it @Chuuurles ...

Double cut in one direction, and then ran out of time and energy and sunlight on the cross cut so just did singles.

Next time!


----------



## Chuuurles

Looks fantastic either way mate !


----------



## pennstater2005

Looks great!!


----------



## BBLOCK

Good work Dave, all that work last year paying off!

What's the current plan for the front? Times flying by... Be August in a blink.


----------



## Babameca

Awesome Dave! Where is the sand???
I can poke you now? 
It looks great, considering the heat wave We've had. You guys at least had some rain. Nada here


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> Good work Dave, all that work last year paying off!
> 
> What's the current plan for the front? Times flying by... Be August in a blink.


Thanks!

Big state of indecision right now on the whole lawn topic. We're well into designing a new house (gut + big extension) and eyeballing next spring to start. Lawns will get trashed by construction equipment I expect, so little point in doing much with them this summer / fall other than maintenance and learning.

But then I'm looking at materials and construction labour price trends and wondering if the project is going to be even slightly affordable... :dunno:


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> Awesome Dave! Where is the sand???
> I can poke you now?
> It looks great, considering the heat wave We've had. You guys at least had some rain. Nada here


1/4" rain, not bad, we'll take it!

I was cross cutting with the reel today and it was like riding an angry bull. I could not keep it in a straight line due to major bumps. It's getting worse with time, I started a thread here:

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29180

I have a long way to go with levelling before I'm ready for sand I think.


----------



## Babameca

I've seen it. By levelling you mean grading. As you already realized that may be too much of a hassle with neighbours yards. Sand will get you there faster than anything IMO. 5-6 years. You will see a major improvement at 1st app though.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> I've seen it. By levelling you mean grading. As you already realized that may be too much of a hassle with neighbours yards. Sand will get you there faster than anything IMO. 5-6 years. You will see a major improvement at 1st app though.


Grading, yes.

You don't think the sand will wash away, the same as my soil seems to be?


----------



## Babameca

No as easy as soil, but yes. Any slope will take its stake. Your, mine and many other yards will never be perfectly horizontal. I live close to a mountain slope. Sand every year will keep it as flat as my landscape allows. And you won't have bumps!


----------



## davegravy

Struggling hard with worm castings. Here's the worst area :



Ran the sun joe a couple times over the reno. Once on the 2nd highest setting, the then on the middle (0) position since the first barely did anything. It pulled up a bunch of dead stuff and made the lawn look good and stressed, but didn't do much to the castings.

Vacuumed up the debris, and cut with the flex21, double wides at 90deg.



Imidracloprid soon.


----------



## Chuuurles

davegravy said:


> Struggling hard with worm castings. Here's the worst area :
> 
> 
> 
> Ran the sun joe a couple times over the reno. Once on the 2nd highest setting, the then on the middle (0) position since the first barely did anything. It pulled up a bunch of dead stuff and made the lawn look good and stressed, but didn't do much to the castings.
> 
> Vacuumed up the debris, and cut with the flex21, double wides at 90deg.
> 
> 
> 
> Imidracloprid soon.


As expected this is my fav so far :nod:


----------



## Babameca

Looks awesome. And flat! Now you have another weapon for worms


----------



## davegravy

Thanks all, that was a lipstick shot though 😛The reality is not as good of course. Thanks to @Chuuurles for coming by with his drone.



The power rake definitely didn't help any, and the castings are probably helping to throw the colour. Some leaves have a lesion or two but not a ton. Soil moisture is good, temps have been mild. A bit baffling but oh well, will just wait it out I guess.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Damn that dethatch worked very well on the lawn. Pretty gutsy move doing that in the summer.

I want to do this as well given the overcrowding in my Reno but always remind myself not to stress it in the summertime. Any tips?


----------



## davegravy

JerseyGreens said:


> Damn that dethatch worked very well on the lawn. Pretty gutsy move doing that in the summer.
> 
> I want to do this as well given the overcrowding in my Reno but always remind myself not to stress it in the summertime. Any tips?


I wouldn't normally at this time of year but we've had some mild temperatures and nothing crazy hot in the forecast. Any hotter and I probably wouldn't have.

How are temperatures where you are? I know not too far south of us there's a crazy heat wave.


----------



## JerseyGreens

davegravy said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn that dethatch worked very well on the lawn. Pretty gutsy move doing that in the summer.
> 
> I want to do this as well given the overcrowding in my Reno but always remind myself not to stress it in the summertime. Any tips?
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't normally at this time of year but we've had some mild temperatures and nothing crazy hot in the forecast. Any hotter and I probably wouldn't have.
> 
> How are temperatures where you are? I know not too far south of us there's a crazy heat wave.
Click to expand...

It's a mixed bag. Some days we are breaking record heat and other days it's very cool...been an odd weather pattern the past 30-45 days.

Daytime highs range from 75-90F at the moment. I'm itching to do it so badly!

Did you feed it right after?


----------



## davegravy

JerseyGreens said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn that dethatch worked very well on the lawn. Pretty gutsy move doing that in the summer.
> 
> I want to do this as well given the overcrowding in my Reno but always remind myself not to stress it in the summertime. Any tips?
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't normally at this time of year but we've had some mild temperatures and nothing crazy hot in the forecast. Any hotter and I probably wouldn't have.
> 
> How are temperatures where you are? I know not too far south of us there's a crazy heat wave.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a mixed bag. Some days we are breaking record heat and other days it's very cool...been an odd weather pattern the past 30-45 days.
> 
> Daytime highs range from 75-90F at the moment. I'm itching to do it so badly!
> 
> Did you feed it right after?
Click to expand...

We're highs of 75 with a couple highs next week below 70. I'd be careful above 75-80, but that's just me. We got half an inch of rain right after but I didn't get a chance to put fert down. Am thinking I'll drop 0.25lb N/K from AS tomorrow.


----------



## davegravy

Ever since my reno last fall where I had a lot of green strips at the edges of my Glypho passes I've suspected my passes are too far apart.

Fathers day fun:

Watvhing the drying pattern of 30" spacing (which I've been running) versus 24".

It's pretty unscientific since the driveway is clearly not uniform temperature (maybe I'll repeat on an overcast day), but it's something. What do you all think? 24? 30? split the difference?


----------



## g-man

If you are using teejets, it should be 20in apart and 20in from the ground.


----------



## davegravy

g-man said:


> If you are using teejets, it should be 20in apart and 20in from the ground.


I am using teejets. Thanks I did not know that, I will readjust.


----------



## g-man

It is in their info sheet on the right side.

Your mower is likely 22in wide, but with the overlap, your stripes are around 20in. Use the middle stripes to spray. Walk on the white side to remember your location.

Once you do this correctly, the amount of carrier should increase from your previous apps.


----------



## Babameca

@g-man Interesting! I swear (no science just pure user experience) My AI and XR at 120 degrees and 6gpm are very different. XR sprays wider and more. Found both the 5gpm to push me to crawl, not walk at pace. 
@davegravy I mostly finish a spray on hard surface and able to see the spraying edge (not the few drops, but the end of the consistent pattern). This is where my wand starts the next pass. Along the street, I do a pass with the nozzle at 45 degrees and walk 'twice' faster. Next pass is as I barely spray over the street edge. Never measured anything.


----------



## g-man

@Babameca they have a ton of science on these nozzle. They have a YT channel with their test, spray patterns in wind, boom setup. Go check it out. The 110 is 20in x 20in, the 080 is different.


----------



## davegravy

So with 20" spacing I only got 90% of the way through my 3.8ksqft backyard with 4 Gal water. It took my Gal/ksqft from 0.75 to 1.16 which is pretty much bang on what you expect from reducing the spacing to 66% of what it was (20" from 30").

So I've upped my pace from 85bpm to 96bpm and that gets me to 1 Gal/ksqft which is most of the time what I see recommended for carrier. It's a bit of an uncomfortably fast speed to walk but not terrible. I can cover the backyard with a bit to spare using the Chapin 24V.

Think I'll give low doses of FAS another go with this arrangement once things bounce back from the dethatch.


----------



## davegravy

Cool day today, high of less than 20C.

Getting really tired of brown stalks, here's what I'm thinking to hide them: scalp down to 0.5" (current HOC is 0.75") throw down 0.25lbs N fast release plus some CA and humic, push watering a bit, then let it grow out to 1" and maintain it there through the summer.


----------



## davegravy

Had to remove two shims on each side to get to 0.5". Note to future davegravy: they're in the shed in a cupboard.


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Cool day today, high of less than 20C.
> 
> Getting really tired of brown stalks, here's what I'm thinking to hide them: scalp down to 0.5" (current HOC is 0.75") throw down 0.25lbs N fast release plus some CA and humic, push watering a bit, then let it grow out to 1" and maintain it there through the summer.


Dave, is this in your new reno? Did you do PGR to suppress seed heads? I agree with your approach to take it to 1/2" and let it grow out. Especially with the cool weather this week and the rain expected at the end.

I would not do the N purely because you are are lowing the HOC once, unless you think it needs it. Even then I would do 0.125 lb N/k of liquid sprayed urea with the CA and the humic. Why not stick to the 3/4" once it grows out? Is there a reason to go back to 1".. I think the cut quality will suffer at 1" with the flex 21 TBH.. I have found even at 7/8" it is far less "crisp" than at 3/4".


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool day today, high of less than 20C.
> 
> Getting really tired of brown stalks, here's what I'm thinking to hide them: scalp down to 0.5" (current HOC is 0.75") throw down 0.25lbs N fast release plus some CA and humic, push watering a bit, then let it grow out to 1" and maintain it there through the summer.
> 
> 
> 
> Dave, is this in your new reno? Did you do PGR to suppress seed heads? I agree with your approach to take it to 1/2" and let it grow out. Especially with the cool weather this week and the rain expected at the end.
> 
> I would not do the N purely because you are are lowing the HOC once, unless you think it needs it. Even then I would do 0.125 lb N/k of liquid sprayed urea with the CA and the humic. Why not stick to the 3/4" once it grows out? Is there a reason to go back to 1".. I think the cut quality will suffer at 1" with the flex 21 TBH.. I have found even at 7/8" it is far less "crisp" than at 3/4".
Click to expand...

Yes this is the reno.

I just took it to 1/2" and it didn't lose much colour and it doesn't look very scalped. I actually really like the length, except the worm casts show more. 




I was pretty sloppy with the mowing because I thought it was gonna look terrible regardless. Wish I'd tried harder.

Point taken regarding nitrogen. Thing is, I haven't applied any in almost a month and it looks a bit thirsty. And yes, I may well keep going at 0.75", depending on how well hidden the brown stalks are at that HOC.


----------



## JerseyGreens

What kind of drone is that?


----------



## davegravy

JerseyGreens said:


> What kind of drone is that?


Mavic Air. It's not mine however, just borrowed. I'm pretty darned impressed with it.


----------



## JerseyGreens

davegravy said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of drone is that?
> 
> 
> 
> Mavic Air. It's not mine however, just borrowed.
Click to expand...

Very nice!

I agree with the foliar N - the lawn looks hungry. My reno lawn looks very similar and it perked up after 0.1 lbs N per K via AMS foliar this morning.

Only using foliar N during PGR, or Fungicide apps (ends up being every ~2 weeks now).


----------



## Stuofsci02

@davegravy .. are those worm casting I see in the drone shot?


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> @davegravy .. are those worm casting I see in the drone shot?


YUP :x

The worm party is about to end soon however.


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy .. are those worm casting I see in the drone shot?
> 
> 
> 
> YUP :x
> 
> The worm party is about to end soon however.
Click to expand...

Holy crap.. that is serious.. I have one or two spots like that 5x5 at most…. That is a worm party indeed..


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @davegravy .. are those worm casting I see in the drone shot?
> 
> 
> 
> YUP :x
> 
> The worm party is about to end soon however.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy crap.. that is serious.. I have one or two spots like that 5x5 at most…. That is a worm party indeed..
Click to expand...

For years I was gathering up all my neighbours' fall leaves (with their permission) , dumping them on my lawn, and mulching them in. Soil tests confirm I have lots of OM and the worms seem a bit too happy with it.


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> YUP :x
> 
> The worm party is about to end soon however.
> 
> 
> 
> Holy crap.. that is serious.. I have one or two spots like that 5x5 at most…. That is a worm party indeed..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For years I was gathering up all my neighbours' fall leaves (with their permission) , dumping them on my lawn, and mulching them in. Soil tests confirm I have lots of OM and the worms seem a bit too happy with it.
Click to expand...

Are you going to spray them out?


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy crap.. that is serious.. I have one or two spots like that 5x5 at most…. That is a worm party indeed..
> 
> 
> 
> For years I was gathering up all my neighbours' fall leaves (with their permission) , dumping them on my lawn, and mulching them in. Soil tests confirm I have lots of OM and the worms seem a bit too happy with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you going to spray them out?
Click to expand...

Imidacloprid a week ago (which didn't do much last year, but sprayed it mainly for grubs) and going to try some Sevin when it rains later this week.


----------



## g-man

3336F will control your worms. Can you get that in Canada?


----------



## davegravy

g-man said:


> 3336F will control your worms. Can you get that in Canada?


Looks like seedworld carries it, so yes. Thanks I'll keep that in mind in case carbaryl doesn't cut it.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

g-man said:


> 3336F will control your worms.


I didn't know this g-man. I got cleary earlier this year incase my SP prevention didn't go as planned and to have a group 1 fungicide. I was thinking of mixing in to my last azoxy application but glad I didn't if that is a effect from it.


----------



## kdn

You could also try a Saponin based soil conditioner if all else fails. I used 5g/m2 of Saponin and watered in with 1/2" water, there were worms coming to the surface within 5 minutes. I was shocked how well it works.

If you do go down that route, apply in the evening and run the irrigation early morning and the birds will clear them up.


----------



## RCUK

I echo kdn, I use what he does and it works very well although it is probably a different product but same saponin based treatment. Not sure what is available in the US though. Your better halves won't like the mess.


----------



## g-man

@SNOWBOB11 https://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/turfx/article/1998mar3b.pdf

@davegravy Sevin changed their ai but keeps using the same name. You want carbaryl as the ai.


----------



## davegravy

g-man said:


> @SNOWBOB11 https://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/turfx/article/1998mar3b.pdf
> 
> @davegravy Sevin changed their ai but keeps using the same name. You want carbaryl as the ai.


OK good, what I bought is carbaryl.

I've read that mustard is an effective vermifuge (irritant that brings worms to the surface). I was thinking of doing an application of mustard water, with a deep watering, then applying carbaryl direct to the worms as they sit on the surface. It should kill on contact, then once watered, kill worms that stayed burrowed.

Is it worth doing this or should I just apply the carbaryl on a rainy day that has naturally brought worms up? I don't want to kill ALL the worms, just knock them back by maybe 80%. From what I've read carbaryl won't impact eggs, so there should still be a new generation of worms on the way.

If I do the mustard approach, has anyone seen any recommendations for mixing? How much mustard powder per ksqft? how much carrier?


----------



## davegravy

Things are starting to slip.



I applied 0.25lbs/M N from urea (DEF) mixed with 2lbs/M citric acid, sprayed yesterday morning with 1G/M carrier and watered in with 0.5" irrigation immediately (well the last zone had a 3hr wait). Today I have tip burn... Not sure if due to urea or CA or both.

On top of that the section at the middle back is deteriorating - I think it's leaf spot /melting out. It kind of looks like drought stress but I've been monitoring soil moisture by digging up cores daily and it's not been dry.

Planning to apply azoxy (curative) and propi tonight once the wind dies, given the week+ of rain we have coming.


----------



## Chuuurles

davegravy said:


> Things are starting to slip.
> 
> 
> 
> I applied 0.25lbs/M N from urea (DEF) mixed with 2lbs/M citric acid, sprayed yesterday morning with 1G/M carrier and watered in with 0.5" irrigation immediately (well the last zone had a 3hr wait). Today I have tip burn... Not sure if due to urea or CA or both.
> 
> On top of that the section at the middle back is deteriorating - I think it's leaf spot /melting out. It kind of looks like drought stress but I've been monitoring soil moisture by digging up cores daily and it's not been dry.
> 
> Planning to apply azoxy (curative) and propi tonight once the wind dies, given the week+ of rain we have coming.


Did u test the DEF first?


----------



## davegravy

Chuuurles said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Things are starting to slip.
> 
> 
> 
> I applied 0.25lbs/M N from urea (DEF) mixed with 2lbs/M citric acid, sprayed yesterday morning with 1G/M carrier and watered in with 0.5" irrigation immediately (well the last zone had a 3hr wait). Today I have tip burn... Not sure if due to urea or CA or both.
> 
> On top of that the section at the middle back is deteriorating - I think it's leaf spot /melting out. It kind of looks like drought stress but I've been monitoring soil moisture by digging up cores daily and it's not been dry.
> 
> Planning to apply azoxy (curative) and propi tonight once the wind dies, given the week+ of rain we have coming.
> 
> 
> 
> Did u test the DEF first?
Click to expand...

Nope! :bd:

YOLO?


----------



## Chuuurles

davegravy said:


> Chuuurles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Things are starting to slip.
> 
> 
> 
> I applied 0.25lbs/M N from urea (DEF) mixed with 2lbs/M citric acid, sprayed yesterday morning with 1G/M carrier and watered in with 0.5" irrigation immediately (well the last zone had a 3hr wait). Today I have tip burn... Not sure if due to urea or CA or both.
> 
> On top of that the section at the middle back is deteriorating - I think it's leaf spot /melting out. It kind of looks like drought stress but I've been monitoring soil moisture by digging up cores daily and it's not been dry.
> 
> Planning to apply azoxy (curative) and propi tonight once the wind dies, given the week+ of rain we have coming.
> 
> 
> 
> Did u test the DEF first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope! :bd:
> 
> YOLO?
Click to expand...

I really hope this isn't my fault !!! Backstory, i gave Dave some DEF fluid that has been stored @ room temperature for a couple of years.


----------



## davegravy

Chuuurles said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chuuurles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did u test the DEF first?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope! :bd:
> 
> YOLO?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I really hope this isn't my fault !!! Backstory, i gave Dave some DEF fluid that has been stored @ room temperature for a couple of years.
Click to expand...

Haha, I can't imagine it would go bad. I've definitely sprayed that rate of urea and even left it on the leaf overnight when it's cool with no issues before.

I'm more suspicious of the citric acid. Only my 2nd time applying it and I doubled the rate I used the first time (2lbs/M vs 1)

Tip burn should grow out so not a longterm problem, although it does suck that I just scalped to 0.5" and I'm under regulation so it will be a while before it gets to mowing height.

Definitely time to stop meddling with my lawn and just let it grow...


----------



## SNOWBOB11

I don't see any fungus in that lawn. I'd skip the propiconazole at the least as that will only increase suppression while under regulation.


----------



## davegravy

SNOWBOB11 said:


> I don't see any fungus in that lawn. I'd skip the propiconazole at the least as that will only increase suppression while under regulation.


Interesting... I've seen a few lesions, here's some closeups.



These aren't super prevalent, I had to dig a few minutes to find these, but I don't know how else to explain the localized stress.

Note these pics show some of the recent tip burn but the stress predates that by a lot. Pretty well every plant I inspect has some healthy green leaves and a bunch of dried dead ones. The plants in the problem area have a lot more dead leaves than those in healthier areas.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Was the lawn stressed before you de-thatched?


----------



## Harts

It definitely looks stressed. It's had a lot done to it the last week or two - even though temps haven't been too bad.

I'd let it ride for another week or two. Keep up with the irrigation and nurse it back to health.

I've come to believe that sometimes we can do too much to our lawns. It's not a terrible idea to go back to the basics for a few weeks and let it heal.


----------



## davegravy

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Was the lawn stressed before you de-thatched?


It was. Early June it gradually started declining. My lawn has done this for years even when the weather is mild and seemingly friendly, although it usually starts a bit earlier in the year.


----------



## davegravy

Harts said:


> It definitely looks stressed. It's had a lot done to it the last week or two - even though temps haven't been too bad.
> 
> I'd let it ride for another week or two. Keep up with the irrigation and nurse it back to health.
> 
> I've come to believe that sometimes we can do too much to our lawns. It's not a terrible idea to go back to the basics for a few weeks and let it heal.


Good points @Harts.


----------



## Babameca

I am perplexed... It does not look like fungus (except if this is the aftermath). It always starts with a pattern. It looks like drought stress, but you seem to have checked for that. Propi has near zero regulation effect when watered in. Propi has low regulation effect at low rate (up to 1oz).
If it was me:
- Delay PGR by 4-5 days, BUT still apply 1/2 rate at this point
- DO the azoxy propi, bu water in (curative azoxy and low propi)
- water deeper the middle zone....just to be sure.
- nice to have: get soil and tissue samples for pathogen analysis
- stop Nitrogen until you are clear what you are dealing with
- Get some K down (even more if you are K deficient)


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Babameca said:


> - DO the azoxy propi, bu water in (curative azoxy and low propi)


What disease would he be targeting by watering in the 2 fungicides? It's too late for summer patch prevention and that's not what is being dealt with anyway.


----------



## davegravy

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> - DO the azoxy propi, bu water in (curative azoxy and low propi)
> 
> 
> 
> What disease would he be targeting by watering in the 2 fungicides? It's too late for summer patch prevention and that's not what is being dealt with anyway.
Click to expand...

Not sure if it's what Babameca had in mind but my Greenskeeper app dollarspot risk forecast:



Although IIRC azoxy makes it worse. Propi helps.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

You don't have dollar spot.

Along the lines of what harts was saying keep up of the irrigation at this point and let it recover. I think it was a combination of a few things caused the lawn to be unhappy at this point. Next time save the de-thatching and scalping for times when the lawn isn't in a stressed way. I think in this situation it contributed to how it's currently looking.

It will recover.


----------



## davegravy

@SNOWBOB11 agreed, I don't have DS (don't think I ever have), was just postulating at reasons why fungicides might be recommended now.

I have a theory for the leaf burn: the CA burns very quickly. After I sprayed I first ran the right yard zone, and then the left yard, and then the 2 middle zones. Each zone run was about 1hr (for 0.5" water). By the time I got to the middle zone the spray had been sitting on the leaf undiluted or 4 hours and probably dried (CA crystallized on my boots too and it takes more than a splash of water to rinse it off.)



Notice the right yard (which was 1st to run) has little to no burn, the left yard has a bit, and the middle is the worst (plus the other stress that was preexisting)



My plan for next time: run each zone for only 5 or 10 minutes to rinse the leafs before product dries, and then run a 2nd longer cycle to move it further into the soil. Or apply with hose-end.


----------



## Babameca

@SNOWBOB11 both are XMS fungicides. Even if they move less freely than thiophanate-methyl they still only move up.
I am sure you know this:
https://www.greencastonline.com/products/headway-g-fungicide/turf . It does not stay on the leaf 
Many other fungus(es) are root destructive. Anthracnose Root rot, Pythium root dysfunction, even BP is present in soil.
I can share my soil and tissue report from last year, when no one was able to ID my problem. 
@davegravy Yes, this is what I referred to.


----------



## JerseyGreens

Everything looked amazing in your journal until you dethatched.

Also 0.25lbs N per K foliar is a bit high for this time of year.

I'm going to give a hybrid response to some of the others - I'm in agreement with @Babameca to put down some fungicide. It won't hurt at this point.

Then just keep on top of watering. 
I'd skip any upcoming PGR apps and putting anything else down.


----------



## davegravy

JerseyGreens said:


> Everything looked amazing in your journal until you dethatched.


Yes and no😛

When I'm hoping for some advice I take pictures to show the flaws, which I started doing around the time of the dethatch. When I'm trying to capture the beauty, that's another photography method (the light angle hides the problems). Now to be fair things *have* deteriorated to the point I can't take those quality beauty shots anymore, but the downfall did start before the dethatch.

I did the dethatch because things were looking off.



JerseyGreens said:


> Also 0.25lbs N per K foliar is a bit high for this time of year.


Keep in mind it did get pretty cool here, and it wasn't really intended as foliar (sprayed but without surfactant and watered in quickly) but I agree it was aggressive.



JerseyGreens said:


> I'm going to give a hybrid response to some of the others - I'm in agreement with @Babameca to put down some fungicide. It won't hurt at this point.
> 
> Then just keep on top of watering.
> I'd skip any upcoming PGR apps and putting anything else down.


I have some 1 week road trips coming up so I might be in trouble if I don't keep it regulated but I can probably drop the rate some.

Thanks for the input. Thanks to everyone in fact.


----------



## g-man

2lb of CA/M in 1g/ksqft + sitting on the leaves for 4hrs, why? What is the goal of this CA?

If you want to do this, trigger each zone for 5 min each, then trigger again each zone 5 min each then go up to 10min each, then 30min each until you get the 0.5in

But still, why? You sprayed a very acidic mixture as a foliar. I would not be surprised if it gets worst.


----------



## davegravy

g-man said:


> 2lb of CA/M in 1g/ksqft + sitting on the leaves for 4hrs, why? What is the goal of this CA?
> 
> If you want to do this, trigger each zone for 5 min each, then trigger again each zone 5 min each then go up to 10min each, then 30min each until you get the 0.5in
> 
> But still, why? You sprayed a very acidic mixture as a foliar. I would not be surprised if it gets worst.


Goal is to (temporarily) acidify the soil. I decided this season to try a 3 pronged approach: elemental sulfur, AS and CA. I think Greendoc and grassfactor have talked about temporary benefits of this in soil with high calcium carbonate - as you know it makes iron more plant available. I havent been having any success with foliar FAS so I thought I'd try this approach.

Backpack spray because I feel this gets me the most even distribution of product and its more convenient than hose end.

The spray rate was mentioned on another thread but I didn't appreciate how immediate the "water in immediately" instruction was. I had applied 1lb/M and watered in using the same method without issue earlier in the season, so I guess double the rate was pushing things too far.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Babameca said:


> Many other fungus(es) are root destructive. Anthracnose Root rot, Pythium root dysfunction, even BP is present in soil.


He's not dealing with any of those. This isn't a fungal issue.


----------



## Babameca

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many other fungus(es) are root destructive. Anthracnose Root rot, Pythium root dysfunction, even BP is present in soil.
> 
> 
> 
> He's not dealing with any of those. This isn't a fungal issue.
Click to expand...

I am not here to argue John! Preventive vs corrective, SP vs anything out there, vs DS models etc etc... You may have missed a bit, but some personal texts don't show on this page. Dave has plenty of info to drive appropriate actions from 
I shared MY opinion, no need to challenge it as I did not challenge any.
Cheers,
B


----------



## Babameca

As @g-man mentioned, CA won't go well sprayed on if not watered in immediately. It's an acid. Not as Sulphur that turns to acid thru a biochemical transformation to sulfuric acid. I am assuming this is only a leaf burn at this point and the upcoming rain will help with a prompt recovery. Your travel and no PGR may turn to a slaughter mow at your return. But again, final decisions are yours.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Babameca said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many other fungus(es) are root destructive. Anthracnose Root rot, Pythium root dysfunction, even BP is present in soil.
> 
> 
> 
> He's not dealing with any of those. This isn't a fungal issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not here to argue John! Preventive vs corrective, SP vs anything out there, vs DS models etc etc... You may have missed a bit, but some personal texts don't show on this page. Dave has plenty of info to drive appropriate actions from
> I shared MY opinion, no need to challenge it as I did not challenge any.
> Cheers,
> B
Click to expand...

Who's John?


----------



## Stuofsci02

Whoaa... Did I read 2lb/m of CA correctly? I would think that is what did it combined with the fairly high foliar N..

Yesterday was also a hard day on the grass for some reason. When I got home last night my yard looked more heat stressed that it has at any point this year.... The night before it looked great. I am not sure why.....


----------



## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> Whoaa... Did I read 2lb/m of CA correctly? I would think that is what did it combined with the fairly high foliar N..
> 
> Yesterday was also a hard day on the grass for some reason. When I got home last night my yard looked more heat stressed that it has at any point this year.... The night before it looked great. I am not sure why.....


It's been sunny, dry, and windy here. I haven't been calculating ET but I imagine it could be quite high even if the air temperature is mild.

Yes I pushed things too far with the application. In my mind it wasn't a foliar application because I was watering in... Lesson learned: a few hours delay in watering in means it *is* foliar. I haven't been burned by this in the past but this was the highest CA rate I've done.

I've been watching it and it hasn't progressed beyond the tips dying so I think it will be fine.



My nomix at the very back (1.5" HOC) I completely forgot to water in and it's pretty unconcerned aside from the leaf tips. I think if I was going to get serious damage it would show up here.


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whoaa... Did I read 2lb/m of CA correctly? I would think that is what did it combined with the fairly high foliar N..
> 
> Yesterday was also a hard day on the grass for some reason. When I got home last night my yard looked more heat stressed that it has at any point this year.... The night before it looked great. I am not sure why.....
> 
> 
> 
> It's been sunny, dry, and windy here. I haven't been calculating ET but I imagine it could be quite high even if the air temperature is mild.
> 
> Yes I pushed things too far with the application. In my mind it wasn't a foliar application because I was watering in... Lesson learned: a few hours delay in watering in means it *is* foliar. I haven't been burned by this in the past but this was the highest CA rate I've done.
Click to expand...

Yeah.. I don't get surprised by drought stress, but I was caught off guard yesterday. Looked great in the morning and like crap when I got home.. I think you are right about the wind.... I was hoping to not have to water until the rain started tonight, but I ended up running an irrigation cycle last night.. Each cycle costs me $26 so I guess I was being cheap...


----------



## g-man

You can have a great lawn (you had) at your pH. There is no need to be doing 2lb/M of CA foliar. The benefit of CA in our high clay soils might be marginal.


----------



## davegravy

g-man said:


> You can have a great lawn (you had) at your pH. There is no need to be doing 2lb/M of CA foliar. The benefit of CA in our high clay soils might be marginal.


My soil is actually quite sandy, not clayey. I had a decent lawn but I believe there was still a good bit of room for improvement. I've never been able to achieve the deep colour that some others in this area have. I don't seem to be able to get a good response from FAS - it goes black or from lower doses I get nothing. I don't have easy access to Feature or other chelated Fe.

What happened sucks but I'm not bent up about it, and I'm happy to have learned. I will probably try CA again later in the season with a better method to get it to the soil faster - unless there's zero chance it's going to make a significant difference. I bought a pile of the stuff so I may as well give it a proper try.


----------



## davegravy

Recovering



A decent bit of top growth on this mow. That said, even though the burned leaves clearly have lots of healthy tissue left, they aren't growing.... Well, they're not growing *upwards* and getting cut - the hopper was full of disappointingly green clippings.

EDIT:

Lawn 'oclock:


----------



## BBLOCK

How's the worm situation coming along looks like maybe the worm damaged spots are starting to fill in more?


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> How's the worm situation coming along looks like maybe the worm damaged spots are starting to fill in more?


It's interesting, with all this rain I've had, walking the lawn there are no nightcrawlers on the surface as there usually are when it's wet out. I was wondering if my imidacloprid app a few weeks ago had done them in, but I'm still seeing a good number of fresh casts and it didn't do anything to them when I applied last year.

I don't think I've had significant healing yet on the old casts but it's a very gradual process so maybe.

Carbaryl going down hopefully today.


----------



## davegravy

Recovery from the sky


----------



## Chuuurles

took a quick peek as i dropped off cups. The recovery looks better IRL, not quite as nice as a month ago but not too far away in my humble opinion. Love the double wides


----------



## davegravy

g-man said:


> The benefit of CA in our high clay soils might be marginal.


This has had me thinking. Why is CA less beneficial in high clay soil? I would have thought it would be *more* beneficial compared to sandy because it will stick around and influence pH for longer.

As I said I have fairly sandy soil, but I don't know if that really means I'm more likely to get benefit from it... or if it does I don't understand why.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy pH is a simple expression (not that simple but for sake of the example) of the count of positively charged hydrogen ions and negativly charged hydroxy ones (OH-).
I also assume your soil test had the buffer pH which is an expression of how hard will be to neutralise (move pH to either direction). You can compare yours with g-man. Highly calcitic soil will tend to 'wear' the H+ ion from the acid and convert it to CO2. You can also find a calculator to estimate the amount of product with a specific pH (CA for example) to neutralize thousands of tons of soil.
And one last thing. CA has 10 times less 'neutralizing' power than Sulfruric.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> @davegravy pH is a simple expression (not that simple but for sake of the example) of the count of positively charged hydrogen ions and negativly charged hydroxy ones (OH-).
> I also assume your soil test had the buffer pH which is an expression of how hard will be to neutralise (move pH to either direction). You can compare yours with g-man. Highly calcitic soil will tend to 'wear' the H+ ion from the acid and convert it to CO2. You can also find a calculator to estimate the amount of product with a specific pH (CA for example) to neutralize thousands of tons of soil.
> And one last thing. CA has 7 times less 'neutralizing' power than Sulfruric.


My understanding was that with highly calcitic soil like mine, achieving _permanent change_ with any treatment like elemental sulfur, CA, etc is futile, but that a _temporary_ lowering of the "soil solution" pH might be achieved through high dose applications of CA.

Performed frequently enough, these temporary pH lowering applications might give a result that simulates permanently lowered pH.

In other words, those added H+ ions keep getting stolen by the calcitic soil, but it takes long enough for that to happen they have a chance to drop the pH in the root zone for a while and make nutrients like iron more available to the plant in that period.

The figure I read for the temporary benefit was only 1-2 weeks. No idea in practice if it works like this but this was the premise I was pitched. It makes sense on some level because if I add vinegar to my soil it fizzes for quite some time...It's not an instantly completed reaction.


----------



## Babameca

For short effect foliar application of positive ions (as Iron) would work way better. Depending on your Sulphur levels, I would go with heavy supplementing and measure pH changes for the next 2-3 years while keeping it dark green by spraying as much as you can your nutrients. Like this one:
https://www.ojcompagnie.com/sites/default/files/fichiers/22-0-22%20Soluble%2065%20UMAXX%20S062842%20Can%20F%20Rev1408.pdf


----------



## davegravy

Old man's cottage lawn needs some serious love.



He won't put in an irrigation system but does hand water and fertilize irregularly. A big part of the problem is the two storey wall of glazing that's right adjacent which effectively cooks this bit of grass.

He keeps throwing homedepot scotts seed mixes at it a couple times a season - It looks good for a bit but then goes crispy. The only species that seems to be surviving is PRG. I'm sure it's never going to look great but I've never experimented with TTTF and I'm wondering if this might help improve things a bit:

https://www.oscseeds.com/product/inferno-turf-type-tall-fescue-7085-2/

Lots of (very sandy) topsoil before bedrock, except at the edges.


----------



## Stuofsci02

@davegravy .. I am renoing 6,800 soft at my folks place this year with OSC Alternative rough mix which is 90% TTTF and 10%KBG. If it goes well and handles the winter then I will likely do this to my backyard next year to cut down on watering etc and have better green in the mid summer.

When I spoke to OSC they told me that this mixture is being used widely in Southern Ontario for non irrigated sports fields and golf roughs.. I am excited to see this..


----------



## Chuuurles

Dave, I saw some thriving cultivars on the western islands a few weeks ago. Wonder what they were.


----------



## davegravy

Quick update. Gave the middle finger to work for an hour this morning to double mow.



Don't look at the edging which I'm way behind on  Noticed a few nightcrawlers on the surface but they're all strangely discoloured and not moving - I guess the carbaryl is working. Seeing some recovery from old casts and no new ones.

Old leaf burn damage is pretty well recovered but some new damage in the form of yellowing leaves I think from all the rain. Azoxy went down last week at curative rate, I may follow next week with propi.

Delayed my Aneuw re-application by a week and reapplied a couple days ago at half rate. Growth has picked up but is still very manageable.


----------



## JBC-1

davegravy said:


> Quick update. Gave the middle finger to work for an hour this morning to double mow.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't look at the edging which I'm way behind on  Noticed a few nightcrawlers on the surface but they're all strangely discoloured and not moving - I guess the carbaryl is working. Seeing some recovery from old casts and no new ones.
> 
> Old leaf burn damage is pretty well recovered but some new damage in the form of yellowing leaves I think from all the rain. Azoxy went down last week at curative rate, I may follow next week with propi.
> 
> Delayed my Aneuw re-application by a week and reapplied a couple days ago at half rate. Growth has picked up but is still very manageable.


Double mow is looking great @davegravy


----------



## Chuuurles

Looking reeeeellll nice !


----------



## JerseyGreens

Damn that looks good. Are those double wides or 21inch wide stripes?


----------



## davegravy

JerseyGreens said:


> Damn that looks good. Are those double wides or 21inch wide stripes?


Thanks! They are double wides


----------



## M1SF1T

Looks awesome Dave.

What rate do you do the propi for preventative?


----------



## davegravy

M1SF1T said:


> Looks awesome Dave.
> 
> What rate do you do the propi for preventative?


I'll let you know when I figure that out, this will be my first time applying


----------



## SNOWBOB11

2 oz/ksqft if using 14.3% propiconazole. I'd see if the azoxy helps first before adding ppz. Especially being you just did PGR.


----------



## M1SF1T

LOL...

That's where I was at earlier today... read the label, still haven't figured it out though...


----------



## Babameca

Wow! Dave! This looks awesome! Just wait for a few weeks more. End of July the joy starts. PPZ at 2oz is only for sever disease pressure or curative or summer patch. 1oz as per the label is the 'normal' rate. As your regulation is down and will stay such until the next overlap, you won't have any over regulation issues. I don't know what you are trying to prevent but Daconil may be another option so you don't repeat same group. Keep some PPZ for a snow mold app early winter. Combined with Daconil, it will give enough (not great but good) piece of mind. If, even this is something you may have troubles with. I had.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Babameca said:


> Wow! Dave! This looks awesome! Just wait for a few weeks more. End of July the joy starts. PPZ at 2oz is only for sever disease pressure or curative or summer patch. 1oz as per the label is the 'normal' rate. As your regulation is down and will stay such until the next overlap, you won't have any over regulation issues. I don't know what you are trying to prevent but Daconil may be another option so you don't repeat same group. Keep some PPZ for a snow mold app early winter. Combined with Daconil, it will give enough (not great but good) piece of mind. If, even this is something you may have troubles with. I had.


He has stated he sees a issue with yellowing of leafs which means he has a issue developing hence my 2 oz/ksqft rate recommendation. The label has nothing about a "normal rate" as you say.

"Under conditions optimum for high disease pressure, use the higher rate and the shorter application interval".

I would say with the rain and expected humidity the conditions are "optimum for high disease pressure".

PPZ has a regulator effect but less so if watered in. Depending on what he is dealing with a foliar app might be better suited but as I said wait and see if azoxy helps any first.


----------



## davegravy

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow! Dave! This looks awesome! Just wait for a few weeks more. End of July the joy starts. PPZ at 2oz is only for sever disease pressure or curative or summer patch. 1oz as per the label is the 'normal' rate. As your regulation is down and will stay such until the next overlap, you won't have any over regulation issues. I don't know what you are trying to prevent but Daconil may be another option so you don't repeat same group. Keep some PPZ for a snow mold app early winter. Combined with Daconil, it will give enough (not great but good) piece of mind. If, even this is something you may have troubles with. I had.
> 
> 
> 
> He has stated he sees a issue with yellowing of leafs which means he has a issue developing hence my 2 oz/ksqft rate recommendation. The label has nothing about a "normal rate" as you say.
> 
> "Under conditions optimum for high disease pressure, use the higher rate and the shorter application interval".
> 
> I would say with the rain and expected humidity the conditions are "optimum for high disease pressure".
> 
> PPZ has a regulator effect but less so if watered in. Depending on what he is dealing with a foliar app might be better suited but as I said wait and see if azoxy helps any first.
Click to expand...

Mainly concerned because as mentioned the azoxy has been down for a bit already - 7 days now. The yellowing isn't taking off by any means but i think it's very slowly worsening.

Oh I thought we were done with rain after yesterday but new forecast shows more. Can't remember the last time I had to run irrigation.... crazy summer.


----------



## davegravy

Day old stripes but they pop so much better when it's sunny, especially low angle sunny.


----------



## Babameca

Did try to pull grass in those areas? Is it rooted?


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> Did try to pull grass in those areas? Is it rooted?


It's well rooted. Seems to be a foliar issue.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

davegravy said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did try to pull grass in those areas? Is it rooted?
> 
> 
> 
> It's well rooted. Seems to be a foliar issue.
Click to expand...

Can you take a picture of the affected area?


----------



## davegravy

SNOWBOB11 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did try to pull grass in those areas? Is it rooted?
> 
> 
> 
> It's well rooted. Seems to be a foliar issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you take a picture of the affected area?
Click to expand...

(The white powder is elemental sulphur)


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Maybe doesn't look as bad in the picture but I think that's not too much to be worried about. But as always keep a eye on it. If it was me I'd hold off on propi for now…


----------



## Stuofsci02

Some of those look like seed stalks..


----------



## Babameca

I would agree. This is not bad. We are in mid summer. Some are stocks but you can also notice some spots on the blades. Really not alarming IMHO.


----------



## davegravy

I'm not alarmed but I am aware it's slowly worsening, so keeping a close eye &#128521;

Thanks all for the reassurance!


----------



## davegravy

I'm a bit addicted to double-doubles. They take so long to do, but nothing beats the look.


----------



## Chuuurles

Yea wow! Is this your favourite shot of the year so far?


----------



## JerseyGreens

Looks great. Is this peak for KBG lawns in Canada this summer? I'd say our best lawns looked like this around 2-3 weeks ago.


----------



## lbb091919

Absolutely stunning


----------



## SodFace

Wow it looks amazing - up there with the best ones on this forum.


----------



## davegravy

Chuuurles said:


> Yea wow! Is this your favourite shot of the year so far?


I think so, yeah.


----------



## davegravy

JerseyGreens said:


> Looks great. Is this peak for KBG lawns in Canada this summer? I'd say our best lawns looked like this around 2-3 weeks ago.


Thanks mate. Tbh I have no idea where the apex is, especially this year. We've had so much rain that everyone has at least a decent looking lawn which is not usually the case in July.

It used to be no matter what I did my old nomix would always tap out starting in May and get progressively worse until late August, then look fantastic in September /Oct.

Having a lawn that looks good in July is a very new (and welcome) experience for me!


----------



## jskierko

davegravy said:


> I'm a bit addicted to double-doubles. They take so long to do, but nothing beats the look.


I am having a hard time typing this due to the tears of joy I am shedding over this picture. Phenomenal!


----------



## JerseyGreens

jskierko said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a bit addicted to double-doubles. They take so long to do, but nothing beats the look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am having a hard time typing this due to the tears of joy I am shedding over this picture. Phenomenal!
Click to expand...

Both you and Dave dethatched in the summer. I wouldn't be surprised if yours looks just as good soon...I'm going to dethatch as soon as my lawn dries out from all of our rain. Both of you have inspired me to do it!!

This is LOTM material with ease. Let's see what the warm season boys put up against this...


----------



## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> I'm a bit addicted to double-doubles. They take so long to do, but nothing beats the look.


Looks so good…. Doubles are definitely the way to go. Once they are burned in and you can see them easily, you can single pass each stripe so it takes less time.


----------



## davegravy

Some patches of light green grass that's growing faster than all the rest starting to pop up. These weren't here in the spring which is when I thought Poa Triv/Annua usually stands out.






(doesn't show up too well in this shot but fairly easy to see with the naked eye)



No membranous ligule (I've generally found one on poa annua/triv cultivars generally, although not always on triv during early stages of development)


----------



## BBLOCK

Seems like no lawn can escape it!

Wish me luck lol &#128514;


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> Seems like no lawn can escape it!
> 
> Wish me luck lol 😂


Good luck! 😉

So I didn't think this was the time of year to attack Triv but if it's alive and growing does it make sense to put down a low rate tenacity app to mark it, spot nuke with gly, then plug/seed? Or should I wait and do this in the spring? Or both?

When repairing medium size bare patches has anyone had success with a, plug n' PRG approach? Ie kbg plugs with PRG overseed to quickly fill in the gaps (kbg should fill in and mix with the PRG in time). PRG would also go in the donor holes.

@bernstem i know you've been battling Triv, would be great to get your perspective.


----------



## bernstem

davegravy said:


> BBLOCK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like no lawn can escape it!
> 
> Wish me luck lol 😂
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck! 😉
> 
> So I didn't think this was the time of year to attack Triv but if it's alive and growing does it make sense to put down a low rate tenacity app to mark it, spot nuke with gly, then plug/seed? Or should I wait and do this in the spring? Or both?
> 
> When repairing medium size bare patches has anyone had success with a, plug n' PRG approach? Ie kbg plugs with PRG overseed to quickly fill in the gaps (kbg should fill in and mix with the PRG in time). PRG would also go in the donor holes.
> 
> @bernstem i know you've been battling Triv, would be great to get your perspective.
Click to expand...

Any time it is growing it is killable. I say go for it.


----------



## Green

davegravy said:


> When repairing medium size bare patches has anyone had success with a, plug n' PRG approach? Ie kbg plugs with PRG overseed to quickly fill in the gaps (kbg should fill in and mix with the PRG in time). PRG would also go in the donor holes.


Yes, in my TTTF/KBG areas: seed mix or just TTTF seed, plus plugs:
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3351&p=325616&hilit=Plugs#p325616

I think I still have some Triv left to kill next week, too.

To check if it's Triv or not if it has a short ligule, take and try to stretch a blade laterally with two hands. Repeat several times. If if they string, they are likely Triv. If they snap off abruptly, they are likely chlorosed/chlorotic KBG. I call this the string test. Poa annua strings, too. KBG almost never, ever...probably 1% of the time or less frequently. Always repeat to verify.


----------



## Green

davegravy said:


> No membranous ligule (I've generally found one on poa annua/triv cultivars generally, although not always on triv during early stages of development)


Almost certainly turf type Perennial Ryegrass...note the lateral veins and blade that is not totally flat...it curves/tapers into the midvein.


----------



## davegravy

Green said:


> Yes, in my TTTF/KBG areas: seed mix or just TTTF seed, plus plugs:
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3351&p=325616&hilit=Plugs#p325616
> 
> I think I still have some Triv left to kill next week, too.
> 
> To check if it's Triv or not if it has a short ligule, take and try to stretch a blade laterally with two hands. Repeat several times. If if they string, they are likely Triv. If they snap off abruptly, they are likely chlorosed/chlorotic KBG. I call this the string test. Poa annua strings, too. KBG almost never, ever...probably 1% of the time or less frequently. Always repeat to verify.


That's good to see re patch repair

Thanks for reminding me, I completely forgot about the string test!

Haven't been able to find a ligule on any of this stuff but I find Triv doesn't always have it.

There's some other stuff growing in the same area as the sample pic I posted that has a much narrower leaf and is a light green. I'll try to post a pic tomorrow, maybe you'll recognize it too.


----------



## davegravy

@Green et all...

Tested this morning and no stringing!


On the left is what I'm seeing a lot of in a few patches. Very fine bladed and light green top growth, growing like gangbusters compared to the regular grass around it (plant on the right in photo)

I guess this is just a young PRG plant but interesting that it's growing so quickly compared to its surroundings.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Is the leaf blade back shiny? The CSI in my experience exercises almost Triv behaviour trying to spread. But color is definitely on part or even darker than the rest IMC


----------



## Green

Those are probably both Ryegrass.


----------



## davegravy

I had pretty much thrown in the towel with FAS because I kept getting blackening (or no discernable improvement).

I've made a few small changes :

1) I fixed my spray spacing so it's correct for my nozzle (20" instead of 30")

2) I recalibrated my walking pace for 1G carrier /M versus 0.75G.

3) I switched to 1oz FS/M weekly instead of 2oz/M every two weeks.

I've done 3 apps this way so far - seeing no blackening and a definite greenup!

I might try to go back to 2oz every other week as weekly sprays are a bit onerous.

Still waiting on my Main Event, excited to compare its results.


----------



## davegravy

Back from 1week vacation, hoped the PGR would do more but it was still a minor massacre mow. Colour and density continue to improve.



A bit of damage from hoses lying out for 1 week. Too bad it rained so much I didn't need to water lol



Any suggestions on how to easily rake up rotting apricots? Took an eternity to get these which fell while I was away into a pile.


----------



## Babameca

Welcome back! Looks stunning!


----------



## Chris LI

davegravy said:


> Any suggestions on how to easily rake up rotting apricots? Took an eternity to get these which fell while I was away into a pile.


Maybe a shop vac with a thorough rinsing afterwards? (take filter out, first)

It may be tedious, but should be better than two stages of work: gathering them, then picking them up.


----------



## Chuuurles

Congrats on LOTM! Can confirm looks even better in person!


----------



## davegravy

Chris LI said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any suggestions on how to easily rake up rotting apricots? Took an eternity to get these which fell while I was away into a pile.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe a shop vac with a thorough rinsing afterwards? (take filter out, first)
> 
> It may be tedious, but should be better than two stages of work: gathering them, then picking them up.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I've never shop vac'd something with that consistency. Worth a shot!


----------



## davegravy

Chuuurles said:


> Congrats on LOTM! Can confirm looks even better in person!


Thanks! Hope your reno works out and you're in the running next season!


----------



## davegravy

Prodiamine and my last potassium app is down. Front is hanging on for dear life, back continues to strut its stuff. Thinking I'll try 5/8" HOC in Sept for the back yard.


----------



## Babameca

davegravy said:


> Thinking I'll try 5/8" HOC in Sept for the back yard.


Just try... KBG was never 'made' to do this. Losing colour will be the last thing you have to be worried of...
NO KBG per the label recommends anything below 1''. It 'tolerates' 1'' cut is what I have seen at best. You are 'rooting' for winter soon.


----------



## davegravy

It's *very* early to say for sure, so just putting this out there in case there's any interest: I'm considering selling my lawn as sod.

In the next couple months we're pricing out a house reno we designed which if we pull the trigger on I expect will destroy the lawn (construction equipment, neglect, etc.)

I figure, why waste it, some local lawn enthusiast might enjoy a transplanted LOTM 😉. And I could use the $ to help replace the lawn after construction.

I have one interested buyer but he only would want about 1/3rd of it. I'd be happy to piecemeal it.

We might see the price of the house reno and delay / abort, so as I say it's early. But if we do forge ahead we're targeting spring 2022 construction.

Anyways, keep this in mind as an option if you're planning your own lawn reno in case the timing might work out for you.


----------



## Butter

Yard sale?!


----------



## davegravy

Butter said:


> Yard sale?!


Literally!


----------



## Mark B

How much to ship to UK?


----------



## davegravy

Mark B said:


> How much to ship to UK?


 :shock: :lol:


----------



## davegravy

Anyone know what this is?

Very fine-leafed, grows in clumps. Similar colour to the rest of my lawn, just a different texture. Stringy and pulls out easily. No pointed ligule. Roots are so thin and dense I can't tell if there's stolons/rhizomes.



Below I think is PRG on the left, mystery grass on the right. Thinner stalk and narrower leaf.


Looked to me like this whole clump came together at one main root.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Uh oh. Hard to tell but that looks like what I've dealt with in the past. It starts with a t and ends with a riv. Does it almost pull out like a toupee?


----------



## davegravy

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Uh oh. Hard to tell but that looks like what I've dealt with in the past. It starts with a t and ends with a riv. Does it almost pull out like a toupee?


Haha, I've had triv before and this seems different to me. Finer leafed and clumpier. Of course, I don't have experience with triv maintained at 3/4", maybe this is how it responds...

The other key difference is that it's holding up much better in the heat than I'm used to with Triv. I have some in my front yard which I've watered far more aggressively and it even has some shade - it's downright checked out at the moment. The stuff in my reno is happy as a clam.


----------



## Babameca

Are you putting ppl on test? :lol:


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> Are you putting ppl on test? :lol:


Sure, we'll call it a test 😛

Here's a better picture of a new patch I just found


----------



## Babameca

Beautiful bent that does not belong... Maybe another place another time.


----------



## davegravy

We shall see. Tenacity foliar application is down.

As I understand it'll kill bent but not Triv. If it's Triv it will knock it back but it will recover.

Excited (not) to see how many grassy weeds I've been overlooking.


----------



## Babameca

@davegravy Bent takes 3 apps 2-3 week apart to get 98% control. MA U extension, not me says so. Flash it then a single gallon for spot spraying will suffice. That's my plan anyway. Touch this btw...smooth or rough. well triv is rough BG and this is nothing like it texture wise.


----------



## davegravy

Dad didn't water the overseed for 10 scorching hot dry days. The seedlings fried.

Second attempt. This time with an above ground sprinkler system I rigged up (includes timer).





Very minimal gardening supplies / tools available. Basically TTTF seed, a rake and hand seeder. No lawn mower, roller, bags of topsoil/peat, herbicides, fertilizers, etc. Just roughed up the soil as much as possible, seeded, watered, and had the kids run around over it to push the seed in.


----------



## bernstem

davegravy said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you putting ppl on test? :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, we'll call it a test 😛
> 
> Here's a better picture of a new patch I just found
Click to expand...

That looks like bentgrass. If you pull up a larger patch you can likely see the runners.


----------



## davegravy

Really poor germination rate after a week so I made the trek into town and bought peat. Then reseeded. Round 3.



Won't be back for about a month so hopefully it'll be very progressed by then.


----------



## Chuuurles

davegravy said:


> Really poor germination rate after a week so I made the trek into town and bought peat. Then reseeded. Round 3.
> 
> 
> 
> Won't be back for about a month so hopefully it'll be very progressed by then.


Pressure is on now for the old man


----------



## davegravy

Back after 1 week away. Tenacity bleaching is prominent now. Pre mow photos:

There's one or two very clear bent patches like this






A good number of ambiguous patches like this:



The unrenoed (nomix from previous owner) lit up pretty bad. Fine fescue maybe?





Overview shots.

Clear bent patch in the bottom right, general splotchiness throughout.








Ambiguous patch:




Closeup on obvious bent patch


Closeup on ambiguous


----------



## Neville Park

looking at the density on some of your macro photos is amazing, i bet it feels insane in bare feet!


----------



## davegravy

Neville Park said:


> looking at the density on some of your macro photos is amazing, i bet it feels insane in bare feet!


Haha thanks. It does feel really good but you know what feels the best on the feet? The bentgrass that I'm trying to kill 😂


----------



## Neville Park

davegravy said:


> Neville Park said:
> 
> 
> 
> looking at the density on some of your macro photos is amazing, i bet it feels insane in bare feet!
> 
> 
> 
> Haha thanks. It does feel really good but you know what feels the best on the feet? The bentgrass that I'm trying to kill 😂
Click to expand...

Lol, of course, I feel like that is a metaphor for a lot of things in life :lol:


----------



## davegravy

So I'm not sure what to do here...

I'm due today for the next tenacity app (doing bi-weekly apps for bent control). A couple bent spots lit up really well and look hurt. The majority of the bent spots barely hilighted or didn't at all.

The mild splotchiness/bleaching in the areas that weren't clearly bent patches is gone, so I'm past "peak bleaching", and the white is starting to grow out.

I don't want to waste precious tenacity doing more blanket apps if it's only going to affect a small fraction of the stuff.

Could I have varieties of bent that are resistant? Is there something that looks like bent that's resistant? Is something wrong with my tenacity? I did 5 floz/A rate, should I up it?

I could consider just ignoring the problem since I have to look pretty hard to find these patches, but where they are they've totally pushed out the kbg/PRG so I have to assume they'll continue spreading and I'll eventually have a 100% bent lawn.


----------



## BBLOCK

davegravy said:


> So I'm not sure what to do here...
> 
> I'm due today for the next tenacity app (doing bi-weekly apps for bent control). A couple bent spots lit up really well and look hurt. The majority of the bent spots barely hilighted or didn't at all.
> 
> The mild splotchiness/bleaching in the areas that weren't clearly bent patches is gone, so I'm past "peak bleaching", and the white is starting to grow out.
> 
> I don't want to waste precious tenacity doing more blanket apps if it's only going to affect a small fraction of the stuff.
> 
> Could I have varieties of bent that are resistant? Is there something that looks like bent that's resistant? Is something wrong with my tenacity? I did 5 floz/A rate, should I up it?
> 
> I could consider just ignoring the problem since I have to look pretty hard to find these patches, but where they are they've totally pushed out the kbg/PRG so I have to assume they'll continue spreading and I'll eventually have a 100% bent lawn.


Why not just spot spray the spots you know are bad and see what happens with a second dose. Then you could just mix a half gallon or something and save tenacity.

If second dose doesn't do more why not highlight them next year, gly them and seed if you want it gone.

Pia eh


----------



## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm not sure what to do here...
> 
> I'm due today for the next tenacity app (doing bi-weekly apps for bent control). A couple bent spots lit up really well and look hurt. The majority of the bent spots barely hilighted or didn't at all.
> 
> The mild splotchiness/bleaching in the areas that weren't clearly bent patches is gone, so I'm past "peak bleaching", and the white is starting to grow out.
> 
> I don't want to waste precious tenacity doing more blanket apps if it's only going to affect a small fraction of the stuff.
> 
> Could I have varieties of bent that are resistant? Is there something that looks like bent that's resistant? Is something wrong with my tenacity? I did 5 floz/A rate, should I up it?
> 
> I could consider just ignoring the problem since I have to look pretty hard to find these patches, but where they are they've totally pushed out the kbg/PRG so I have to assume they'll continue spreading and I'll eventually have a 100% bent lawn.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just spot spray the spots you know are bad and see what happens with a second dose. Then you could just mix a half gallon or something and save tenacity.
> 
> If second dose doesn't do more why not highlight them next year, gly them and seed if you want it gone.
> 
> Pia eh
Click to expand...

Yeah this might be best. I was hoping the blanket app would more effectively hilight them though so I could rest assured I had all of them in my crosshairs. The hunt and spot-spray approach is next best but I have a feeling it'll be a never ending battle because I'll always miss some.

Maybe I'll try one more blanket app with the rate higher first then that'll be my fallback plan.


----------



## g-man

One blanket tenacity + spot gly.


----------



## davegravy

g-man said:


> One blanket tenacity + spot gly.


Good option. Probably a bit more economical although more death of good turf, ie longer recovery. I'd be really happy with this route if the blanket app consistently highlighted the bent clearly.

A couple spots lit up nicely like this


Mostly it is untouched like this... Actually it's way easier to see on the phone camera than naked eye somehow.


----------



## Babameca

As per my journal I had much higher success flashing bent. The whole thing also looked much worse. Maybe going a notch higher with NIS? 6-7 oz?


----------



## g-man

Maybe do a 2g/ksqft application rate.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

I believe some of the areas look a lot like the poa t I've seen in my yard which I've killed in the past and this year as well. In my past experience with the spots that I sprayed with tenacity some areas took a while to turn white but eventually did bleach fully white. They looked like they were dead but started to come back after a few weeks.

If it's bent it should light up white and kill it with a couple applications as you know. I think like said you could do gly on the spots you see to be sure you get them. Or just leave them if you are still planning to renovate your house and have to redo the lawn again. That way you don't have to look at the brown spots all fall.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> As per my journal I had much higher success flashing bent. The whole thing also looked much worse. Maybe going a notch higher with NIS? 6-7 oz?


Yeah you've got a whole season on me so it had more opportunity to spread which may be why you have more of it. All the clumps I've found are tennis ball sized (I know they say the runners go wider).


----------



## davegravy

g-man said:


> Maybe do a 2g/ksqft application rate.


As in for carrier, like 2 gallons / M?

Ok, I can try. Also my tenacity is a few years old, I have a fresh bottle I could crack open.


----------



## davegravy

SNOWBOB11 said:


> I believe some of the areas look a lot like the poa t I've seen in my yard which I've killed in the past and this year as well. In my past experience with the spots that I sprayed with tenacity some areas took a while to turn white but eventually did bleach fully white. They looked like they were dead but started to come back after a few weeks.
> 
> If it's bent it should light up white and kill it with a couple applications as you know. I think like said you could do gly on the spots you see to be sure you get them. Or just leave them if you are still planning to renovate your house and have to redo the lawn again. That way you don't have to look at the brown spots all fall.


I don't know for sure it's bent, it just looks like it from online pics, so you could be right about Triv. Maybe it will still turn white but seems like all the white is fading out now.

Very uncertain still about the house reno, so I'm moving forward like it's not happening... just in case. Also in case someone here happens to want to transplant my lawn.


----------



## g-man

Yes, most herbicides work better at the 2gallons/Ksqft. You get more water to cover the leaf.


----------



## JerseyGreens

I know this is labeled mostly for Fungicide apps but download the adjuvant use guide pdf below - they prefer this one to be used with Meso. Sync worked out very well for me on my Fungicide apps this year (have not used it on any herbicide apps but I sure will now).

https://www.precisionlab.com/golf-course/spray-tank-adjuvants/sync

https://www.precisionlab.com/resources/adjuvant_use_guide_turf.pdf


----------



## Dude

davegravy said:


> Ok, I can try. Also my tenacity is a few years old, I have a fresh bottle I could crack open.


Fwiw...I had a similar issue this year, cracked open a new bottle and it lit up.


----------



## davegravy

0.5lbs N/M from AS last week and I have a bit of whiplash. PGR is not enough 😛 mowing every 2 days. Going to back off to 0.25lbs per week.



Another tenacity app going down today at 2gal/M carrier this time.


----------



## Chuuurles

davegravy said:


> 0.5lbs N/M from AS last week and I have a bit of whiplash. PGR is not enough 😛 mowing every 2 days. Going to back off to 0.25lbs per week.
> 
> 
> 
> Another tenacity app going down today at 2gal/M carrier this time.


Was gonna request a glamor shot. Too many bent grass pics 

Interesting I haven't noticed any rapid growth from my 0.5 lb N apps yet.


----------



## Stuofsci02

Looking great @davegravy !!


----------



## SodFace

davegravy said:


> 0.5lbs N/M from AS last week and I have a bit of whiplash. PGR is not enough 😛 mowing every 2 days. Going to back off to 0.25lbs per week.
> 
> 
> 
> Another tenacity app going down today at 2gal/M carrier this time.


oof those are some nice stripes!


----------



## Babameca

Looks awesome! Maybe whenever weather cools down and you start hammering N, consider adjusting PGR...either the rate or the app frequency (it does the same). 2 days earlier app will give some 5-7% more suppression as per the model.


----------



## davegravy

Nice wet lawn from rainstorms, crispest stripes I think I've had


----------



## Chuuurles

:nod: :thumbup:


----------



## livt0ride

Wow those do pop. Can't wait till mine comes in and I can start striping.


----------



## rhart

Those stripes are fantastic! What's your HOC?


----------



## Babameca

It looks awesome. So good that I am sure your Tenacity has expired :lol:


----------



## davegravy

Thanks everyone



rhart said:


> Those stripes are fantastic! What's your HOC?


3/4" HOC


----------



## Harts

davegravy said:


> Nice wet lawn from rainstorms, crispest stripes I think I've had


I remember back in April when you weren't happy with the aesthetics of your cut......I think we're past that now.

Those stripes are ridiculous. I have always found this time of year to be the best for us when it comes to mowing low.


----------



## davegravy

Harts said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice wet lawn from rainstorms, crispest stripes I think I've had
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I remember back in April when you weren't happy with the aesthetics of your cut......I think we're past that now.
> 
> Those stripes are ridiculous. I have always found this time of year to be the best for us when it comes to mowing low.
Click to expand...

Thanks Harts, yup it's come a long way. I've also learned a few things on mowing technique which I think helped.


----------



## davegravy

Babameca said:


> It looks awesome. So good that I am sure your Tenacity has expired :lol:


Thanks! Yes, sadly I am very late on my tenacity app, which is good for looks but bad for fighting the weed. The first round which I don't think worked well has completely worn off.

I just opened a new bottle and sprayed at 2gal/M carrier as per @g-man. I won't know if it's the higher carrier or the new tenacity if it works, but who cares I just want to see where the weed really is.


----------



## JBC-1

davegravy said:


> Nice wet lawn from rainstorms, crispest stripes I think I've had


Looks amazing!


----------



## Butter

Very nice stripes!


----------



## Neville Park

Omgosh, looks outrageous. Well done &#128079;&#129309;


----------



## davegravy

@Butter@Neville Park Thanks!

Flex 21 down :crying:

Mid-mow. The spring connecting the traction drive lever to the cable snapped. Probably an easy fix, hopefully one I can do myself once I get the part. But looks like I'm back to the manual reel for a bit.

Worried that the piece of spring is sitting in the lawn somewhere waiting to destroy my reel. I searched for 20 minutes then gave up 



EDIT:

Heard from Logan, replacement value for part 105-5328 is $199 + tax, but I'm getting a discount at least. Part should arrive Tuesday.


----------



## davegravy

Do other people disengage traction on each pass? I tried doing it like the golf course instructional videos do, where you just swing around. Found it stressful and way easier to on/off the traction but obviously more wear on parts like this.


----------



## JerseyGreens

It's like the Madden curse...the LOTM curse continues! Glad Logan was able to order you the part fairly quickly.


----------



## lbb091919

davegravy said:


> Do other people disengage traction on each pass? I tried doing it like the golf course instructional videos do, where you just swing around. Found it stressful and way easier to on/off the traction but obviously more wear on parts like this.


I do. I'm not nearly good enough to try to swing it around with the drive engaged. I also don't have the luxury of a collar to turn around in either.


----------



## davegravy

In case anyone is curious to see greensmower quality of cut right next to manual reel (scotts classic @ lowest HOC)


----------



## Chuuurles

davegravy said:


> In case anyone is curious to see greensmower quality of cut right next to manual reel (scotts classic @ lowest HOC)


@ken-n-nancy approved !


----------



## bf7

davegravy said:


> Do other people disengage traction on each pass? I tried doing it like the golf course instructional videos do, where you just swing around. Found it stressful and way easier to on/off the traction but obviously more wear on parts like this.


I do the swing technique if I'm in a hurry. It works ok if you mow a wide enough area around the perimeter for turnarounds at the beginning. But then you don't really get a complete stripe or have much time to plan your path on each pass. Ends up sloppier in my experience, but maybe I just haven't mastered it. Don't do it when the grass is wet unless you mow in cleats (I have slipped and fallen).

I prefer to put more stress on the mower than on myself. $199 for that little spring though? Ouch.

This lawn looks fabulous. I know a lot of us get the "fake grass" question from other people, but yours actually looks unreal to me in these pics haha. The stripes are cream of the crop IMO.


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## davegravy

bf7 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do other people disengage traction on each pass? I tried doing it like the golf course instructional videos do, where you just swing around. Found it stressful and way easier to on/off the traction but obviously more wear on parts like this.
> 
> 
> 
> I do the swing technique if I'm in a hurry. It works ok if you mow a wide enough area around the perimeter for turnarounds at the beginning. But then you don't really get a complete stripe or have much time to plan your path on each pass. Ends up sloppier in my experience, but maybe I just haven't mastered it. Don't do it when the grass is wet unless you mow in cleats (I have slipped and fallen).
> 
> I prefer to put more stress on the mower than on myself. $199 for that little spring though? Ouch.
> 
> This lawn looks fabulous. I know a lot of us get the "fake grass" question from other people, but yours actually looks unreal to me in these pics haha. The stripes are cream of the crop IMO.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the compliments. Agree, the couple times I tried the swing technique, it was pretty punishing haha.

I think the part is that price because it's the whole cable assembly not just the spring. Also it's Canadian dollars. If I had more time I'd look for something to replace just the spring


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## JDgreen18

davegravy said:


> In case anyone is curious to see greensmower quality of cut right next to manual reel (scotts classic @ lowest HOC)


Dang this looks fantastic


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## davegravy

Fixed the Flex. Nothing like a simple repair to make me feel handy.

Quick cut right at dusk. Tenacity bleaching ramping up a bit.


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## BBLOCK

davegravy said:


> Fixed the Flex. Nothing like a simple repair to make me feel handy.
> 
> Quick cut right at dusk. Tenacity bleaching ramping up a bit.


How's the worms


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## davegravy

BBLOCK said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fixed the Flex. Nothing like a simple repair to make me feel handy.
> 
> Quick cut right at dusk. Tenacity bleaching ramping up a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How's the worms
Click to expand...

Worms are back but I'm going to leave them until the spring.


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## davegravy

Better response to tenacity this time. All the bent patches I've located have lit up, instead of just a few last time. I think the tenacity I was using was expired... I bought it used, unknown age. Lesson learned!

Unfortunately the highlighting is too widespread to spot gly. A week left until I would need to do a 3rd tenacity app, but I'm leery because it's getting late in the season and the first application mostly failed.

I suspect I'll either be doing a reno with a new seed or living with it.



A couple of the spots which got hurt last round are really sore now:


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## JerseyGreens

Does the bent grow at the same pace as your KBG? Your pictures and stripes look great...chasing out that much of a certain grass type using herbicide doesn't seem like the right play.

I'm glad you've come around to possibly living with it. If it looks this good and doesn't bother you then screw it!


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## davegravy

JerseyGreens said:


> Does the bent grow at the same pace as your KBG? Your pictures and stripes look great...chasing out that much of a certain grass type using herbicide doesn't seem like the right play.
> 
> I'm glad you've come around to possibly living with it. If it looks this good and doesn't bother you then screw it!


It's a little slower growing than the rest but not bad. Mostly it's blended into the rest of the grass but in a few spots it's formed clumps (squeezed out the kbg/PRG)... These bits look more patchy.

Remains to be seen if it's going to look more patchy with time - if it is then I may get pushed into wanting another reno.


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## davegravy

Decided to try 45 degree double doubles. Think I like 90 better, but still nice. This angle better highlights the levelling I still need to do. You can see it's pretty bumpy still.



Casts are getting really bad again, but I've put it through enough this fall - carbaryl will wait for next year.
I let it come out of regulation to help with recovery but the growth rate is a bit crazy now so I might do a low dose PGR.

Started repainting the shed... no more red.


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## davegravy

Also high five to the groundskeeper at this UofWestern building. The photo doesn't do it justice, but the lawn always looks mint and it's a really breathtaking view from afar with the big slope.


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## Chuuurles

davegravy said:


> Decided to try 45 degree double doubles. Think I like 90 better, but still nice. This angle better highlights the levelling I still need to do. You can see it's pretty bumpy still.
> 
> 
> 
> Casts are getting really bad again, but I've put it through enough this fall - carbaryl will wait for next year.
> I let it come out of regulation to help with recovery but the growth rate is a bit crazy now so I might do a low dose PGR.
> 
> Started repainting the shed... no more red.


I dig the white shed ! Lawn doesn't look bad either


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## davegravy

Chuuurles said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Decided to try 45 degree double doubles. Think I like 90 better, but still nice. This angle better highlights the levelling I still need to do. You can see it's pretty bumpy still.
> 
> 
> 
> Casts are getting really bad again, but I've put it through enough this fall - carbaryl will wait for next year.
> I let it come out of regulation to help with recovery but the growth rate is a bit crazy now so I might do a low dose PGR.
> 
> Started repainting the shed... no more red.
> 
> 
> 
> I dig the white shed ! Lawn doesn't look bad either
Click to expand...

Thanks it's actually a sage-grey but came out way lighter than it looked on the paint chip. Still need to paint the door.


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## DiabeticKripple

looks great!

mine isnt so good, heat wave in august killed a lot and i wasnt able to recover in time for winter, my grass is almost not growing now.


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## davegravy

Shed repaint is done. Hate the brown singles, one day will replace.



Haven't applied anything to the lawn in probably a month, been so busy. It's doing fine.


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## Chuuurles

Awesome colour !


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## Stuofsci02

Chuuurles said:


> Awesome colour !


The grass or the shed or both? That grass is poppin!


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## Chuuurles

Stuofsci02 said:


> Chuuurles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome colour !
> 
> 
> 
> The grass or the shed or both? That grass is poppin!
Click to expand...

All of it !


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## jskierko

My god you put down absolute laser stripes! I'm gonna need you to wear a go-pro next mow so you can show me your tactics.


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## livt0ride

I haven't tried a flex mower yet. I wonder how different that is compared to a fixed head unit.


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## davegravy

jskierko said:


> My god you put down absolute laser stripes! I'm gonna need you to wear a go-pro next mow so you can show me your tactics.


Haha thanks  I'll try to one of these days


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## BBLOCK

jskierko said:


> My god you put down absolute laser stripes! I'm gonna need you to wear a go-pro next mow so you can show me your tactics.


get as smaller lawn with shorter runs lol


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## Babameca

Looks great. It is interesting how the NO renovated area slowly takes example... Similar happened to my back yard. Mowed and treated the same as the reno, it turned to look very good after 2 seasons...and before I teared it apart with my interventions this fall. No it is my PRG reno project for next spring .


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## Stuofsci02

Babameca said:


> Looks great. It is interesting how the NO renovated area slowly takes example... Similar happened to my back yard. Mowed and treated the same as the reno, it turned to look very good after 2 seasons...and before I teared it apart with my interventions this fall. No it is my PRG reno project for next spring .


No mix can look great….


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## Babameca

@Stuofsci02


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## Stuofsci02

Babameca said:


> @Stuofsci02


I does take a true master like Dave though..


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## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Stuofsci02
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I does take a true master like Dave though..
Click to expand...

Too kind  This time of year the even the worst varieties can look great... from afar at least.

Up close there's a pretty big difference between the reno and my nomix. For one, the nomix is all lying down. No matter how frequently I cut it the front roller just flattens it and the reel misses. The reno stands tall and springs right back under the front roller.


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## davegravy

Ok for real this time...

Needed to run fuel stabilizer through the Flex so figured why not do one last mow while it runs. Still some significant clippings!


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## davegravy

Lol just realized I forgot to do the last stripe on the left. Ooops

Also a good number of triv spots now apparent. They're all small so should be easy to plug but there's enough of them it'll be a fair size job next year.


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## Stuofsci02

You mowed today below freezing?


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## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> You mowed today below freezing?


Today yes but it was definitely above freezing where I am


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## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mowed today below freezing?
> 
> 
> 
> Today yes but it was definitely above freezing where I am
Click to expand...

Getting a good dose of snow today.. I think the season is over.... :lol:


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## davegravy

Stuofsci02 said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mowed today below freezing?
> 
> 
> 
> Today yes but it was definitely above freezing where I am
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Getting a good dose of snow today.. I think the season is over.... :lol:
Click to expand...

For sure. I wonder if my fresh stripes will be nicely preserved.


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## Stuofsci02

davegravy said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today yes but it was definitely above freezing where I am
> 
> 
> 
> Getting a good dose of snow today.. I think the season is over.... :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For sure. I wonder if my fresh stripes will be nicely preserved.
Click to expand...

I have found that the stripes will last the winter and next spring you will have some nice yellow stripes.


----------

