# Depth of sand that bermuda will tolerate over its rhizomes/crowns/roots



## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

*The situation:* a healthy stand of 419 (front) and Roxal TXD (back) with low areas as deep as a couple inches below the overall grade.

*The goal:* smoothing to as close to level as possible in one season.

*The question:* If you mow high enough that you still see green leaf tips, how deep can the sand be before it will smother and seriously hinder bermuda from growing through, due to smothering stems/rhizomes/crowns?

I plan to level this summer with a sodded front and seeded back that have both had one growing season since installation. I want to level both with sand, but the front is very uneven due to a poor grading job before sod was installed. The back is better, with mostly shallow depressions and some holes.

I'm working with a very small area in front (600 sq ft) and will probably maintain it around 1". If I put essentially zero sand in the areas that meet the main grade of the yard, how much can I raise up the low spots with sand? I know it helps to leave grren tips out, but surely there's a point where the depth of sand seriously hurts the bermuda even if its tips are showing. Any idea what that depth is?


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## ILoveGrits (Sep 22, 2019)

I wouldn't overthink it. Go with the 1 yard / 1000 sq ft rule and guestimate what you think is 0.6 of a yard for the front and spread the rest in the back.

If you have a "bowl" type depression that's a couple of inches deep in the middle, then obviously the sand will be thicker in those areas. The Bermuda will either push through (most likely) or it will spread in laterally.

I've yet to see someone on here actually put too much sand down. A lot have thought they did but come a month later and they're back to full green. I put down 1 yard / 1000 last year on my never-leveled lawn. After watering it in, I wish I would have gone heavier... and I definitely had quite a few "bowls". Which by the way are still present - albeit shallower - and will require another level this year.


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## CLT49er (Jun 19, 2020)

Had similar situation last year. Had sand 2-3" in some spots. By hand i tried to work up the blades as much as I could. Within a month it grew through. This winter I am seeing that I will still need more sanding this summer. Heres a pic from when I sanded in June.


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## McDiddles (Feb 24, 2020)

Consider scalping it with a string trimmer.


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## rhettbo1 (Jun 4, 2019)

@Bermuda_Rooster





I'm not exactly sure what the limit is, but I put down 7 yards of sand on a 4100 sq ft yard, and this is the 1 month transformation. As long as it's hot outside and getting some water I think the bermuda will push through with little to no problem. The only down side is waiting to mow for while.


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## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

Thanks all. @McDiddles, I probably will cut it lower but that runs contrary to what I was wondering about with respect keeping green tips above. Scalped, the leaves would be totally buried under 2" of sand along with the restof the plant.

But then based on what @CLT49er and @rhettbo1 showed, perhaps that shouldn't concern me at all.


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## JayGo (Jun 13, 2019)

There's no denying that grass blades exposed to sunlight will only help the plant. But like the folks above, I have also smothered parts of my lawn with sand and seen them green up within 4-ish weeks.
I've leveled three times now, and I will be doing some touch-up leveling this summer as well.

Feed the lawn some fast-release nitrogen and water a bit more than you normally do while the sand parts fill back in.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Get it level, don't worry about the bermuda struggling. I've buried mine in well over 5 inches of sand and it pushed through. As mentioned above, I would scalp it as low as you can before leveling, then hit with some fertilizer (10-10-10 for me) and water the heck out of it.


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## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

@JayGo, @Redtwin: :thumbup:

Appreciate everyone's advice. I won't worry about burying the low spots! Love the wealth of experience on this forum.


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## jbow03 (Sep 19, 2019)

Last year I went a little heavier than 1 yard / 1,000 and I was worried at first. Turned out to be no big deal at all.

I believe my mistake was to do it too soon in the year. I did it in March in Houston with temps just getting to mid 60's. I wish I would have waited at least another 30 days to start to be 75+ steady. That being said, it still turned out great by the end of summer!

Day 1 (you can see lots of "sod" lines and the heavy fill areas from irrigation lines):




Day 30:



Day 60:



6 months later (Sep):


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## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

jbow03 said:


> Last year I went a little heavier than 1 yard / 1,000 and I was worried at first. Turned out to be no big deal at all.
> 
> I believe my mistake was to do it too soon in the year. I did it in March in Houston with temps just getting to mid 60's. I wish I would have waited at least another 30 days to start to be 75+ steady. That being said, it still turned out great by the end of summer!


Looks awesome! How low was the grass cut before the sand was applied? Looks like you still had a lot of green showing in much of the yard.


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## jbow03 (Sep 19, 2019)

@Bermuda_Rooster

Thanks. Yes, I had the grass cut down to 1/2" and there was still some PRG there from earlier in the season. I had applied the MSM to burn it off, just hadn't gotten 100% yet.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

I also completely buried my lawn in 4-5 inches of sand. My lawn was cut at 0.5 inches at the time. Before i put down the sand i applied a pound of fast acting fertilizer. 3-4 weeks i was good. Make sure its hot.


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## tcorbitt20 (Aug 31, 2018)

This wasn't too much.



A few weeks later it looked like this.



Put enough sand to get it smooth, and let 'er rip. Just wait until it's warmer unless you want to look at sand for a couple months.


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## gooodawgs (Jul 10, 2020)

Dang @Tellycoleman 4-5" is awesome. Any pics of that? I only covered .5" last season, I'm going to go heavier this summer.


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## jpos34 (Aug 31, 2019)

tcorbitt20 said:


> This wasn't too much.


How much did you end up using across your entire 17k?


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## gonefishn2010 (Jun 15, 2020)

I leveled mine 3 times last year. My yard was very uneven. I scalped it before leveling. Some spots buried 2" - 3". It didn't "smother" it to death just took longer to come up. It was in the middle of the summer 116 degrees outside. I think you could scalp it or leave it longer with blades showing only difference will be if you scalp and bury it will take alittle longer to push through but it will not hurt it.



few weeks later


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## Phids (Sep 24, 2020)

Let me ask the most basic question - what is *too much* sand? At what depth will bermudagrass be killed?


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## lvlikeyv (Jan 26, 2019)

Phids said:


> Let me ask the most basic question - what is *too much* sand? At what depth will bermudagrass be killed?


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

If heavily applied sand got rid of Bermuda, everyone who has it in their non-bermuda lawn would be doing it.


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

I buried 800Sq Ft of Celebration Bermuda with 6" of top soil not sand, it grew in and filled in the whole area in 4 months.

Ive seen Bermuda come back up through cracks In asphalt and concrete....You basically cannot smother Bermuda. Bermuda grows very well in sand.


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## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

So, the drift I'm catching here is . . . bermuda will grow through, and it's just a question of how long you can tolerate a beach in your yard. Between the HOA and my wife, it's probably not very long. I'll probably try to keep it less than 2-3" of sand in the low spots.


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## MrMeaner (Feb 21, 2017)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> So, the drift I'm catching here is . . . bermuda will grow through, and it's just a question of how long you can tolerate a beach in your yard. Between the HOA and my wife, it's probably not very long. I'll probably try to keep it less than 2-3" of sand in the low spots.


understand the HOA and wife approval factor however bermuda grows very quickly from a scalp when the weather is warm enough, water and some fertilizer. Your looking at a week or two for a full grow in other than very low spots(area that require that 2-3" of sand)may take a month or so to fully cover those. If you do your scalp and yard leveling at the right time around april or more importantly after you rlast freeze you wont have many issues with HOA or WAF.

Once completed and grown in you and your wife will be much happier with the yard in general. There are tons of levelling post on here to see results.


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## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

MrMeaner said:


> Once completed and grown in you and your wife will be much happier with the yard in general.


Boy I hope that's true. Right now she just rolls her eyes when I talk about putting 2.5 yards of sand on the lawn.


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## lvlikeyv (Jan 26, 2019)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> Boy I hope that's true. Right now she just rolls her eyes when I talk about putting 2.5 yards of sand on the lawn.


Show her before and after photos from the Leveling A Bermuda Lawn thread. 
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=148
My wife was hesitant as well, but once she saw the after pictures she may have gotten more excited to level the lawn than me. 
Probably because she won't be the one doing the labor, but still...


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## Brackin4au (Jun 13, 2018)

Redtwin said:


> If heavily applied sand got rid of Bermuda, everyone who has it in their non-bermuda lawn would be doing it.


Hahaha. Excellent point there..


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## tcorbitt20 (Aug 31, 2018)

jpos34 said:


> tcorbitt20 said:
> 
> 
> > This wasn't too much.
> ...


I don't remember right off hand. However much a truckload was. Maybe 22-23 yards? I'm sure it's somewhere in my lawn journal. And I needed more on most of the back yard. I hope to correct that this year along with a light coat on the rest of the lawn, too. Sorry for not getting back to you for a few days. Haven't logged on here like I should have.


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## Phids (Sep 24, 2020)

tcorbitt20 said:


> I don't remember right off hand. However much a truckload was. Maybe 22-23 yards? I'm sure it's somewhere in my lawn journal. And I needed more on most of the back yard. I hope to correct that this year along with a light coat on the rest of the lawn, too. Sorry for not getting back to you for a few days. Haven't logged on here like I should have.


22-23 yards? That must have cost about $1000. :shock:


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

gooodawgs said:


> Dang @Tellycoleman 4-5" is awesome. Any pics of that? I only covered .5" last season, I'm going to go heavier this summer.


Here u go


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Phids said:


> tcorbitt20 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't remember right off hand. However much a truckload was. Maybe 22-23 yards? I'm sure it's somewhere in my lawn journal. And I needed more on most of the back yard. I hope to correct that this year along with a light coat on the rest of the lawn, too. Sorry for not getting back to you for a few days. Haven't logged on here like I should have.
> ...


Big lawn problems.

Every time I do something other than mow my 20k, cost is a factor. $2,200 to aerate, and have 17 tons of sand delivered and spread. I did the verticut/scalp and final grooming myself. Add in another $200 to have my reel ground after a couple mows due to sand.

I'd love to level 3-4 times over the course of a season. Maybe after I get the Bugatti paid off. :lol:


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Phids said:


> tcorbitt20 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't remember right off hand. However much a truckload was. Maybe 22-23 yards? I'm sure it's somewhere in my lawn journal. And I needed more on most of the back yard. I hope to correct that this year along with a light coat on the rest of the lawn, too. Sorry for not getting back to you for a few days. Haven't logged on here like I should have.
> ...


I can get clean "fill sand" for $10/yard delivered 21 yards at a time down here in the panhandle of Florida. It was certainly a GREAT find and the sand has very little debris in it.


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## tcorbitt20 (Aug 31, 2018)

Phids said:


> tcorbitt20 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't remember right off hand. However much a truckload was. Maybe 22-23 yards? I'm sure it's somewhere in my lawn journal. And I needed more on most of the back yard. I hope to correct that this year along with a light coat on the rest of the lawn, too. Sorry for not getting back to you for a few days. Haven't logged on here like I should have.
> ...


The guy I use couldn't find masonry sand, so he used the closest thing he could find which was a little coarser and had some small pebbles in it. I wasn't thrilled, but it was only $400 if I remember right.


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## tcorbitt20 (Aug 31, 2018)

MasterMech said:


> Phids said:
> 
> 
> > tcorbitt20 said:
> ...


Then there's the fertilizer, PGR, etc. I feel your pain, but I wouldn't trade the yard.


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## gooodawgs (Jul 10, 2020)

@Redtwin I've heard about the $10 a yard sand places that supply all the smaller businesses where they sell it for $45 a yard.

Anyone in ATL know a place like that? Last year it was over 1K for enough sand for my yard. I want to do it again but not sure about dropping that much $$ again.

*** Editing above***

I just started calling places a little further south, and I found http://www.sandrocktransit.com/ They will deliver Mason sand for $34 a ton, or you pick it up yourself for $23.50 a ton . I have not used them yet, but compared to the $45 I paid last season this seems great. Throwing it out there for the ATL folks!


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## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

And here I was planning to feel guilty telling my wife that the sand was going to run $150-200.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> And here I was planning to feel guilty telling my wife that the sand was going to run $150-200.


You got to break her in slowly. Never go full lawn care nut in one step.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

ionicatoms said:


> Bermuda_Rooster said:
> 
> 
> > And here I was planning to feel guilty telling my wife that the sand was going to run $150-200.
> ...


It also helps if you tell her how much it costs when the grass is looking good. Don't mention expenses when it's brown and dormant unless she says she wished it was green again.

"OK, honey... I can make it green again with an additional $1K added to the budget."


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## rjw0283 (May 11, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> ionicatoms said:
> 
> 
> > Bermuda_Rooster said:
> ...


I've been working for approval on a sprinkler system.... I got the money and am going to do it... but you gotta have the approval or at least a "I don't care" I don't care = YES


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## tcorbitt20 (Aug 31, 2018)

Y'all just need to man up and do what you want. "She'll get over it," has been my dad's mantra for years.


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## gooodawgs (Jul 10, 2020)

Marriage is about compromise. I wanted a new greensmower, my wife said she wanted a 4th kid.

Welp, my mower is on the way (and baby due in August  )


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Easier to ask forgiveness than permission.


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## rjw0283 (May 11, 2020)

My wife buys crap ..I buy crap... That's our compromise


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

rjw0283 said:


> My wife buys crap ..I buy crap... That's our compromise


Same here... we will check with each other for large purchases but for the most part we are both pretty equal minded on spending.

I'm in the market for a decent used Superduty... the price range I tell her keeps going up and up. Those things ain't cheap!!!


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## Automate (Aug 14, 2020)

Tellycoleman said:


> I also completely buried my lawn in 4-5 inches of sand. My lawn was cut at 0.5 inches at the time. Before i put down the sand i applied a pound of fast acting fertilizer. 3-4 weeks i was good. Make sure its hot.


How does Bermuda grow fine for 3 or 4 weeks with no sun under 4-5 inches of sand when I can't get it to grow in partial shade with a few hours of sun every day?


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## Phids (Sep 24, 2020)

Automate said:


> How does Bermuda grow fine for 3 or 4 weeks with no sun under 4-5 inches of sand when I can't get it to grow in partial shade with a few hours of sun every day?


Excellent question.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Phids said:


> Automate said:
> 
> 
> > How does Bermuda grow fine for 3 or 4 weeks with no sun under 4-5 inches of sand when I can't get it to grow in partial shade with a few hours of sun every day?
> ...


It seeks the sun by growing towards the heat.


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## Phids (Sep 24, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> It seeks the sun by growing towards the heat.


Alright, so then tell me this - I have heard that putting straight sand on Bermuda in the summer heat will "bake" it. In other words, the sand will get the lawn too hot, so some people recommend using a sand/soil mix instead. At the same time, I believe I have also heard someone say that the heat from sand actually invites Bermuda to grow more.

So which is it? Has anyone had Bermuda get "baked" because of too much sand?


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## tcorbitt20 (Aug 31, 2018)

Phids said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> > It seeks the sun by growing towards the heat.
> ...


Not in my experience. I've covered my lawn in sand when it was 95-100° with no issues.


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## Automate (Aug 14, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> Automate said:
> 
> 
> > How does Bermuda grow fine for 3 or 4 weeks with no sun under 4-5 inches of sand when I can't get it to grow in partial shade with a few hours of sun every day?
> ...


That explains how it knows which direction to grow, but not how it gets the energy to keep growing without sunlight. We know all plants get their energy through photosynthesis. How is it able to keep growing for 4 weeks without any sun at all when other grass in partial sun getting a few hours of light each day dies off?


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

This is my understanding:

Plants store energy in their root systems as starch. They make energy via sunlight. When you bury the bermuda, it burns its starch reserves to grow and reach the surface. Then when it reaches the sun, it regenerates. In partial sun all day long, it is pretty constantly consuming its reserves and never fully regenerates its reserves, so it's always depleted.


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## Automate (Aug 14, 2020)

Darth_V8r said:


> This is my understanding:
> 
> Plants store energy in their root systems as starch. They make energy via sunlight. When you bury the bermuda, it burns its starch reserves to grow and reach the surface. Then when it reaches the sun, it regenerates. In partial sun all day long, it is pretty constantly consuming its reserves and never fully regenerates its reserves, so it's always depleted.


Sounds like it may take more energy to grow the parts of the grass above ground than it takes to grow the roots underground.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Maybe. Or else it's similar to humans. If you are pretty well fed and in decent shape for the most part, you can go a day or so without much food and be fine. Then you resume eating normally and you're back to normal. But you can't sustain eating far too little for an extended period of time before you start to always be running on empty or suffering other health issues.

It's an educated guess at best. But I do know that grasses without the extensive root system don't tolerate being buried like bermuda can.


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## Automate (Aug 14, 2020)

And if you have weak bermuda, such as from not enough fertilizer, weed infestation, too much shade, probably should not bury it in sand too deep.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

tcorbitt20 said:


> Phids said:
> 
> 
> > Redtwin said:
> ...


Me too! The sand here is pretty light in color so it reflects a lot of heat as well. I would think adding dark top soil would make it hotter but I have never heard of "baking" bermuda... maybe one of the non-alpha grasses but not bermuda. If you keep the water to it, it will recover from just about anything.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Darth_V8r said:


> This is my understanding:
> 
> Plants store energy in their root systems as starch. They make energy via sunlight. When you bury the bermuda, it burns its starch reserves to grow and reach the surface. Then when it reaches the sun, it regenerates. In partial sun all day long, it is pretty constantly consuming its reserves and never fully regenerates its reserves, so it's always depleted.


This, this right here is the answer.


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## JRS 9572 (May 28, 2018)

This "baking bermuda" deal. I've made friends with the main caretaker of the field at Williams Brice Stadium for the University of South Carolina. I met him when he worked for a local sports turf contractor that HS in the area used to maintain fields. He once told me "throw as much of that sand as you can to it when you top dress. It draws in heat. Bermuda loves heat. It will run and close the gaps faster with sand."

I see how good his work is on those fields. So I'm going to keep following his advice.

Give him a follow if you're on twitter.

https://twitter.com/31scurrypegleg/status/1247620663969488896?s=20


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## Brackin4au (Jun 13, 2018)

I tend to think the "baked Bermuda" claims are from situations where the Bermuda wasn't getting enough water. I am in the camp that you can't put "too much" sand on Bermuda. But... that doesn't mean you can bury it, then neglect it as well. Still have to keep plenty of water on it for it to thrive and fill back in.


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## Phids (Sep 24, 2020)

A follow-up question: if Bermuda cannot be baked by the heat and can't even be smothered in too much sand, why is it that if you place even a small piece of plastic on it during the summer, the Bermuda gets brown in a few hours?


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Sand breathes, plastic does not.


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## Phids (Sep 24, 2020)

Yeah, possibly, but it seems like even a small piece of plastic does this. For example, last summer the waste company threw my small recycling bin that was on the driveway back onto my lawn. Even though the bin was lightweight and at least some air could still get under it, it left a burn mark after being in the sun for a few hours.


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