# Slow growing TTTF?



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

I reno'd last fall and reseeded late fall due to some unknown thing killing off some of my recent reno. Now it seems like the stuff I reseeded is stuck in limbo and not growing as fast or as wide as some of the other TTTF.

I had a soil test done and was low in potash, so I threw 2lbs/1k down last week of SOP. I also spoon fed it UREA twice at 0.20/1k. Majority of my lawn has looked like this since the beginning of March and the only stuff that is really growing is the established TTTF. Maybe the younger stuff is just slow enough that I can't tell.

Anyone have and idea what is going on?


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## dport (Oct 13, 2019)

Same thing is happening to me near Philly. Complete reno last fall with TTTF I bought from SiteOne. Had premium cultivars that scored well on NTEP trials. I do remember researching on of the cultivars and it said it had a "dwarf growth" habit. Not sure if that is effecting things or not. We've had cold weather as of late, maybe that is causing issues.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

What is dwarf growth?its just weird man. Like I see other TTTF lawns in full bloom and here I am with a half baked one.


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## dport (Oct 13, 2019)

Not sure what dwarf growth actually means. In my Lesco All Transition Pro Mix (pure TTTF) I bought last season it has three cultivars: temple, reunion, restore. See the attached PDF for temple tall fescue. It touts it's dwarf growth habit.


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## spmurph (May 2, 2019)

I have the same issue here in S. Jersey. I overseeded with Firecracker SLS TTTF in the fall and it has been very slow to wake. I hadn't fertilized yet so I threw down .5/1K Milo about 10 days ago. I'm hoping that, with a rise in soil temps, it will wake up and stimulate growth.


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## dport (Oct 13, 2019)

This is interesting guys. We are all located in the same general region (lower-middle mid Atlantic). If you remember last season, we had extreme heat and drought well into October. A front came through the night of Halloween and the temps dropped significantly. We struggled to ever get back to 60 degree air temps the rest of the season.

I have to imagine the weather really hurt us. Perhaps the root growth just never got to where it was supposed to be?


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@spmurph @dport

Guess time will tell. Hopefully as it gets warmer it will start to even out otherwise I am not sure it can stay short forever?


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## dport (Oct 13, 2019)

I'm also hoping my app of prodimaine didn't stunt growth. I put this down in mid march. My grass looked excellent coming into march. Slightly worried that if the plants didn't have much root growth due to the horrid conditions last fall, that the Pre-Em actually hurt them.


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## elgrow (Mar 30, 2020)

I've got this going on as well in 7A down in Richmond, VA. I think @dport might be on to something here with the weather.

I had a large oak tree removed from my back yard which ended up killing off most of the grass during the summer heat along with compaction of moving it out. Wonder if they soil ended up being too compacted and baked from the heat wave in August/Sept last year and then the roots stunted by that early freeze.

I went out today and tried to top dress two of the spots that are looking a little stunted, with some of this being from the bad soil where the trees used to be. Hoping that some extra nutrients/soil will help establish the roots a bit more.


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## dport (Oct 13, 2019)

elgrow said:


> I've got this going on as well in 7A down in Richmond, VA. I think @dport might be on to something here with the weather.
> 
> I had a large oak tree removed from my back yard which ended up killing off most of the grass during the summer heat along with compaction of moving it out. Wonder if they soil ended up being too compacted and baked from the heat wave in August/Sept last year and then the roots stunted by that early freeze.
> 
> I went out today and tried to top dress two of the spots that are looking a little stunted, with some of this being from the bad soil where the trees used to be. Hoping that some extra nutrients/soil will help establish the roots a bit more.


This is concerning as you all have been several degrees warmer than us here in Philly the last couple of weeks. We just couldn't get that push of 70 degree temps up this far.

The only lush areas of my yard are where the dog has peed (we keep him to one area in most of the time). That piece of the yard is dark green, growing. 5 days ago I put down a 25 pounds of 18-24-12 fert from Lesco. Will see what happens after the rain the next few days. Something is going on here in our region. Too many of us struggling with our newly planted TTTF from last fall.


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## elgrow (Mar 30, 2020)

Yeah we have had some warm days down here and most of the lawn is looking lush, but areas from the fall overseeding aren't all as hot. Some are though but it tends to be where it was closer to established grass.

You can also see how there are spots that are 4 inches next to the dwarf looking tttf. Some of this I am probably attributing to the dog fertilizing spots of the yard. But those areas are also matching the growth in my good areas.

I'm still planning on aerating and overseeding again in the fall since I know the soil is still very compact in those areas.


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## SJ Lawn (May 7, 2018)

Must be the weather. Very wet weather (all rain, a couple dustings of snow) during winter and only 45-50 soil temps over the past 2 weeks here in the northern part of South Jersey. I had frost 3 mornings over the past few days.


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## airgas1998 (May 1, 2019)

dwarf growth is just that....that particular cultivar has a low growing height habit...probably in the 2"- to max 3" range...


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## grasscorrection (May 2, 2019)

I'm having the same problem here in Saint Louis. Aerated and overseeded on April 1st. Watering like crazy. If I did a mow, only 10% would actually be cut.

What's the point of the Dwarf growth?


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

I'm in the Northeast and I'm having the same issue with my Fall 2019 Overseed/Reno with SSS TTTF. The bare spots that I applied seed too are yellowish and really slow going. I applied SOP and TSP this weekend, very tempted to hit those spots with urea but can't see how it will help since I'm still dealing with freezing night temps and high 40's
During the day. This weather has been complete garbage up here so I'm assuming that once we get actual spring weather and not the crap we have now, that growth will start.


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## critterdude311 (Apr 21, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> I'm in the Northeast and I'm having the same issue with my Fall 2019 Overseed/Reno with SSS TTTF. The bare spots that I applied seed too are yellowish and really slow going. I applied SOP and TSP this weekend, very tempted to hit those spots with urea but can't see how it will help since I'm still dealing with freezing night temps and high 40's
> During the day. This weather has been complete garbage up here so I'm assuming that once we get actual spring weather and not the crap we have now, that growth will start.





Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> I'm in the Northeast and I'm having the same issue with my Fall 2019 Overseed/Reno with SSS TTTF. The bare spots that I applied seed too are yellowish and really slow going. I applied SOP and TSP this weekend, very tempted to hit those spots with urea but can't see how it will help since I'm still dealing with freezing night temps and high 40's
> During the day. This weather has been complete garbage up here so I'm assuming that once we get actual spring weather and not the crap we have now, that growth will start.


Add me to the list. Central Jersey here. Newly seeded TTTF areas last fall are coming in with low growth habbit, And yellow green color. It's not poa annua, but just unhealthy looking TTTF. We've had colder temps recently, and it's hard to remain patient this time of year. We have a frost warning tonight and tomorrow night which is unusual for this time of year here. My hope is once we start getting in the mid 60s on a regular basis the growth will start to pickup. Looks like we have one more crappy week of weather to get through before we turn the corner.


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## BobRoss (Jul 3, 2019)

I have not really had any warm temps yet. Maybe 40 degrees on a good day, but areas where I renovated vs overseeded the TTTF grass looks like it took a beating this winter. It is supposed to finally start hitting 50F tomorrow and stay warmer so I am anxious to see how the new grass handled the winter.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

March was one of the warmest on record here in the DMV. Granted we had some cold days but more warm than cold. I think April has been colder than March was.

Fingers crossed all of our lawns green up soon.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Would anyone put down a small dose of urea on the spots that are struggling? Would it make a difference with the weather being cold and all?


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

I did. Spoon fed my yard this week. Seemed to help the good stuff but can't really tell if it did anything to the younger stuff. Hard to really gauge that brighter shorter grass.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

I'm going to give it a try and spray a low app of urea. Probably thinking .15 oz per gallon? I'm thinking that might be safe just in case there's some overlap.


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## rockinmylawn (Mar 25, 2018)

Another RVA-er here 
Overseeded every fall & this past fall gave the worse results come March of 2020.
Lawn had large swath of yellow everywhere. 
I had another post on here asking for help & thought it was disease. 


Front yard had no growth & pocket of overgrown mounds making that area look lumpy.

So desperate, in late March I laid down some fertilizer (24-0-4 Carbon X) after my Pre-M in mid March. 
I also started taking the yellow areas also.

The pictures below are from 1st weekend of April.
With warmer temps things are waking up.

Indicates that in addition to the weird mild winter & even with the 5 weeks of spoon feeding urea last fall, an early spring fert app was needed.

You can still see some yellow but after this last weekend, those areas are mostly gone & so are the cherry blossoms.




Monday:


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

rockinmylawn said:


> Another RVA-er here
> Overseeded every fall & this past fall gave the worse results come March of 2020.
> Lawn had large swath of yellow everywhere.
> I had another post on here asking for help & thought it was disease.
> ...


That's quite the difference. Did you notice an immediate difference when you added the fert or was it a combo of fert and warm weather you think?


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## BobRoss (Jul 3, 2019)

Have you guys had much for rain? We have had none and I noticed that when I move my sump pump hose around the grass will grow better in those areas after. I don't expect much since its been so cold, but today it's supposed to get in the upper 40's finally! fingers crossed.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

BobRoss said:


> Have you guys had much for rain? We have had none and I noticed that when I move my sump pump hose around the grass will grow better in those areas after. I don't expect much since its been so cold, but today it's supposed to get in the upper 40's finally! fingers crossed.


It's been raining every or every other day. Add that with sub par temps, not ideal. My backyard is saturated


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## Kissfromnick (Mar 25, 2019)

I have same story here very slow start spatially with over seeded areas. It just crazy whether low 30 at night. Along street, house and curbs lush and green but yellowish on middle. But most disappointing point a lot of my 4th millennium ttf seeded last fall didn't make it over winter.


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## dport (Oct 13, 2019)

Kissfromnick said:


> I have same story here very slow start spatially with over seeded areas. It just crazy whether low 30 at night. Along street, house and curbs lush and green but yellowish on middle. But most disappointing point a lot of my 4th millennium ttf seeded last fall didn't make it over winter.


I'm going to guess maybe 50% of my seed survived the reno last fall. I had to re-seed twice as temps pushed well into the 90s after my first seeding in early September. Not to mention it barely rained. I have 90% coverage at this point, but it's thin.

I'm fully prepared (mentally) for my lawn to not make it through the summer. I just don't think the root growth was there last fall given the weather. Looks like I'm in for another renovation in September 2020.


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## Thejarrod (Aug 5, 2018)

Add me to the list too. I'm a bit north of Philly in PA. I planted GCI TTTF in fall. It was Hot and Dry when planted and in areas i could not water, it barely came in and never established. with the mild winter, it survived, but is taking much longer to wake up and start growing. My soil temp today is 47, which is about 8 degrees below the 5 year average. 
I fertilized at 0.4 lb per 1000 in those areas. i think it will start growing as soon as temps come up a bit.


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## dport (Oct 13, 2019)

Thejarrod said:


> Add me to the list too. I'm a bit north of Philly in PA. I planted GCI TTTF in fall. It was Hot and Dry when planted and in areas i could not water, it barely came in and never established. with the mild winter, it survived, but is taking much longer to wake up and start growing. My soil temp today is 47, which is about 8 degrees below the 5 year average.
> I fertilized at 0.4 lb per 1000 in those areas. i think it will start growing as soon as temps come up a bit.


Any chance you put down prodiamine yet? I think I screwed myself by putting down pre-em on March 15. The young grass could have used a bit more growth.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@dport how can prodiamine affect already grown grass? I thought all it does is stop seedlings from sprouting?


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## Kissfromnick (Mar 25, 2019)

1028mountain said:


> @dpart how can prodiamine affect already grown grass? I thought all it does is stop seedlings from sprouting?


It's still prevent young roots from growing at some point.


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## dport (Oct 13, 2019)

Kissfromnick said:


> 1028mountain said:
> 
> 
> > @dpart how can prodiamine affect already grown grass? I thought all it does is stop seedlings from sprouting?
> ...


Yep, just given the disaster of a reno I had last fall with the weather, I think there were very very young plants in March (perhaps seed left that was still good?). I was fine with losing the leftover seed due to the prodiamine as I really wanted to protect against crabgrass, but I didn't quite think through how little growing time the grass actually had.


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## rockinmylawn (Mar 25, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> That's quite the difference. Did you notice an immediate difference when you added the fert or was it a combo of fert and warm weather you think?


Well the immediate difference took over 30 days as I followed this program:
03.08.20 = Pre-M Prodiamine
03.14.20 = Fert 1 with 18-24-12
04.12.20 = Fert 2 with 24-0-4

So the pics I showed above covered a full month.

As mentioned, we had a mild winter that led to a warm Feb - March in Central VA.
But when my neighbor - who does his own lawn - came out of Feb with a plushed carpet lawn vs. mine that was lumpy, thin & yellow - I needed to start feeding.

In the past I had used 10-10-10 & Urea 46-0-0 & that also produced slow results.
But the flip side is my lawn will always stay green longer than any1 else in the summer but it always is a later bloomer.

This year - the lawn was yellow in bigger & wider swaths.
So did some light top layer raking prior to each fert app.
Ended up doing 2 rounds of Fert.


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## Rile78 (May 14, 2018)

I had a similar issue due to a very late, almost too late, Fall overseed. I applied 3 apps of Urea at .25lb per 1K, ever other week. It l really woke it up and the newest grass has caught up with the existing. I highly recommend spoon feeding in this case.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

I did a over seed last fall with summer tall fescue it's a dwarf type. Didn't look good at all this early spring even some red thread. Dropped Scott's fertilizer with crabgrass prevention a couple good rains looks much better .


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## npompei (Sep 8, 2019)

Yeah listen I am with all of you guys as well. New construction, seeded in Sept (SE PA) and had very good success, to me anyway, in the fall. This winter was crazy mild, March was unreal as @1028mountain said. But this April has been basically March. Super cool and has brought growth to a halt. I'm NO expert, at all. But as soon as I started hitting my yard with Urea in later March, it really helped things fill in and grow. I haven't had the 'spring flush' so to speak because of temps but the growth and filling in has been way better.

If you're not spoon feeding as @g-man says, you're missing out. Hit up your local feed mill store (Davis Feed Mill here near me) has 46-0-0 Urea for $13 a 50/lb bag. Can't beat that. Throw it out there weekly (around .25lbs/1k) and be amazed. Once we get actual spring temps here I think all of us will be looking back going "yeah, I was a bit too worried." Right now the weather here in the Mid-Atlantic is tracking like March. Most yards in our area in March look like we all did after a rough night of drinking - We get up but we look like shit. Hit it with N weekly and she'll come around!


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## Kissfromnick (Mar 25, 2019)

I have area where it needs to be backfill every spring probably tree stump as gift from previous owners so i did it today. All i can say just relax guys roots is doing what it supposed to do. Like npompey says give it some time.


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## SJ Lawn (May 7, 2018)

Still very cool soil temps in New Jersey... we need some low 60's ! I hope the roots are working overtime during these cool soil temps!


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## rockinmylawn (Mar 25, 2018)

SJ Lawn said:


> Still very cool soil temps in New Jersey... we need some low 60's ! I hope the roots are working overtime during these cool soil temps!


Yeah I think from what I've seen mid 50's is the prime starting line for activities:. Man & nature.


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## aperfcrcle (Apr 15, 2020)

Hey guys, first post and I was having the same problems out here on Long Island. Last year was my first year in the house and I decided to push the existing grass, looked great up until end of July. I got DEMOLISHED by grubs. ended up taking a bunch of trees out and top dressing the grub spots, then threw down GCI TTTF. it came up insanely well but like you all mentioned, spots were yellow and thin this spring. Spoon feeding worked for me as well ,but I do still have one patch of very lime green color, and a patch of very dark green. Temps have been crazy, my soil temp was at 62 a few weeks ago, now im back in the low 40's. Hopefully it will warm up and everything will wake up!


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

npompei said:


> Yeah listen I am with all of you guys as well. New construction, seeded in Sept (SE PA) and had very good success, to me anyway, in the fall. This winter was crazy mild, March was unreal as @1028mountain said. But this April has been basically March. Super cool and has brought growth to a halt. I'm NO expert, at all. But as soon as I started hitting my yard with Urea in later March, it really helped things fill in and grow. I haven't had the 'spring flush' so to speak because of temps but the growth and filling in has been way better.
> 
> If you're not spoon feeding as @g-man says, you're missing out. Hit up your local feed mill store (Davis Feed Mill here near me) has 46-0-0 Urea for $13 a 50/lb bag. Can't beat that. Throw it out there weekly (around .25lbs/1k) and be amazed. Once we get actual spring temps here I think all of us will be looking back going "yeah, I was a bit too worried." Right now the weather here in the Mid-Atlantic is tracking like March. Most yards in our area in March look like we all did after a rough night of drinking - We get up but we look like s---. Hit it with N weekly and she'll come around!


This is encouraging. I'm going to do this, this weekend.


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## critterdude311 (Apr 21, 2018)

aperfcrcle said:


> Hey guys, first post and I was having the same problems out here on Long Island. Last year was my first year in the house and I decided to push the existing grass, looked great up until end of July. I got DEMOLISHED by grubs. ended up taking a bunch of trees out and top dressing the grub spots, then threw down GCI TTTF. it came up insanely well but like you all mentioned, spots were yellow and thin this spring. Spoon feeding worked for me as well ,but I do still have one patch of very lime green color, and a patch of very dark green. Temps have been crazy, my soil temp was at 62 a few weeks ago, now im back in the low 40's. Hopefully it will warm up and everything will wake up!


Yea, we got teased with that unusually warm March. It looked like we were going to be in the 70s in April based on how March was going, but mother nature had other plans. It's been really difficult waiting, I feel your pain! This time next month we should be in a much better place.


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

Same exact thing here in North Central Maryland. I have no idea what is going on. 75% of the lawn is stunted and yellow. I did a full reno last fall. I threw down some starter fertilizer I had left from the reno and ended up with fertilizer stripes....total checkerboard pattern now, which has never happened to me. After this, I assumed I had a major soil issue so I've sent away for a soil test. All the other lawns around here are needing to be mowed every 3 days with vigorous growth. I've only had to mow once....and it was just a few spots that had growth.


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## dport (Oct 13, 2019)

learningeveryday said:


> Same exact thing here in North Central Maryland. I have no idea what is going on. 75% of the lawn is stunted and yellow. I did a full reno last fall. I threw down some starter fertilizer I had left from the reno and ended up with fertilizer stripes....total checkerboard pattern now, which has never happened to me. After this, I assumed I had a major soil issue so I've sent away for a soil test. All the other lawns around here are needing to be mowed every 3 days with vigorous growth. I've only had to mow once....and it was just a few spots that had growth.


Please report back with soil test results once received. Very curious!

I have a rental house about 20 minutes away from my primary residence. That lawn has been full grow since early/mid march. Thick/green. My lawn mowing guy has been struggling to even chew through it with his mower. Meanwhile, my reno here is a dud. I've mowed 3 times in the last 1.5 months. Thin, slightly yellow in spots, barely growing.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

I had 2 soil test done, little low PH (6.2-6.4) and low K which I am amending both with lime and SOP. But I can't believe that is the reason all of us seem to be having similar issues.


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

dport said:


> learningeveryday said:
> 
> 
> > Same exact thing here in North Central Maryland. I have no idea what is going on. 75% of the lawn is stunted and yellow. I did a full reno last fall. I threw down some starter fertilizer I had left from the reno and ended up with fertilizer stripes....total checkerboard pattern now, which has never happened to me. After this, I assumed I had a major soil issue so I've sent away for a soil test. All the other lawns around here are needing to be mowed every 3 days with vigorous growth. I've only had to mow once....and it was just a few spots that had growth.
> ...


I posted the results in the soil test forum. Here they are for reference. I did fertilize with 23-23-4 starter fertilizer about 10 days before the soil test. I didn't intend on doing a soil test originally.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> Would anyone put down a small dose of urea on the spots that are struggling? Would it make a difference with the weather being cold and all?


Yes, this should help. I've experienced similar issues over the years. Certain areas can be struggling for a myriad of reasons. It may not be easy to determine exactly why, but from experience, young grass, or new seedlings in the spring, tend to be the typical areas that I've observed struggling (compacted areas, too). Usually, some quick release synthetic N (urea), and Milo can be very helpful, too, once the temps get up around 70*. Remember, seedlings and young grass are very hungry, and need to be fed a lot more, the first year. Google "Philes Phertilizer Lecture ".

Recently, Spring has been very cool in my area (last 10 days), so I've noticed a reduction in clippings. It's also been very wet, with less sunny days, so photosynthesis has been hampered. This is also conducive for fungal outbreaks. Your question about spot hitting struggling areas is key, in my book, and I do this a lot (check my recent journal entries). My philosophy is to balance the look of the lawn, by crutching the weak areas along. I always give a little extra TLC to those areas, because I don't think they would ever catch up to the good areas, if I keep applying even amounts of fertilizer. I like to use biosolids or other organics regularly over those areas, to reduce the risk of burning/overgrowth, but will use urea (and plan on using AS, which I picked up last Fall). I'm experimenting with foliar apps this year with my pump sprayer, and did the same thing, when I sprayed SLS 15-0-15 last week.


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