# LiquidStone's 2021 Lawn Renovation - Mazama KBG (Denver, CO)



## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

The time has come to renovate my front lawn and take it to the next level. I'm definitely looking forward to it but am also nervous at the same time. Creating this log with hopes that some of you vets will chime in and hand me some tips along the way. I'm not new to lawn care but am aware that this forum has a great deal of knowledge and experience. I have learned a wealth of information from this forum and am happy to be a part of it. Please chime in with any and all advice!

I'm located in Denver, CO. I have 3,500 sq ft in my front and side yard. My front yard (west facing) is mostly flat with a large tree on the southernmost side. My side yard (west and north facing) has some flat and also some slope towards the eastern most section of it. Pics below.

I am going to get my seed from CDFord as they are the only suppliers that I can find with Mazama right now. Thanks to @OnTheLawn for giving me that link.

Here is my plan that gives me some cushion in case things come up:

6/5 - Apply 1lb of N/M of AMS to promote growth for good kill. Send off my soil samples to Waypoint for the front yard.

6/12 - Order Seed. Soil Moist seed coat is already on order. I need 7lbs of seed for my 3.5k sq ft and will be ordering 20lbs to make sure I am good on wash out or any issues. At this time I will also start mowing low and bagging.

6/19 - Glypho at the ready. Calibrate Sprayer. I am considering using blue dye as well. Go through irrigation, I will be relocating a couple heads and adding at least one head to an existing zone. I built a fence last fall that interrupted the somewhat poor design that I'm working with. Still Mowing low and bagging while avoiding a scalp.

6/26 - Likely going to need to drop some SOP at this time based on my backyard soil test results. We'll see. Amend any other deficiencies. *Apply gly at 7oz/gallon/1K*. Running perpendicular to ensure even coverage. Fallowing daily to promote weed growth.

7/3 - Bag mow low. Run dethatcher through yard to pull up a good amount of material. Run bagger over it and clean. Continue to fallow daily. Another round of gly if needed.

7/10 - Run dethatcher again if needed. Amended top soil delivery (8yds 70% top soil/30% compost). Spread top soil and fill in low spots. Water daily light and frequent. Another irrigation check and tweak.

7/17 - Spot spray gly if needed. Weigh out seeds and bag for each area.

7/24 - Long range forecast is at the ready. Adjust seed down date if needed. Calculate Tenacity rates and write them down. Acquire peat moss with tackifier. I am still considering using a futerra netless mat on my side section that has slope (could pay off big).

7/31 - Rake area and go over with drag mat. Get it as flat as possible. top 1/4" loose.

8/5 - 2 days out, Apply gly and prep for seed down day

8/7 - SEED DAY. Rake area lightly again and seed. Lightly rake again to embed in soil. Put down starter fert (still debating this) I may use P if it shows low but I doubt it will. I have a couple bags of Milo, I may also use this but still considering my options. Roll the seed into the soil. Apply pre-calculated Tenacity. Lay peat moss in flat sections and either futerra net or peat with tackifier on slope.

Post 8/7 - WATER. My area is very dry. I'll be starting at 5 times a day and will adjust based on needs. Keep an eye on fungus. I have propi 14.3 in my arsenal.

14 DAG - Apply AMS at .1 or .2N/M
21 DAG - Look for no germ zones and apply more seed if needed, poll community
28 DAG - Apply Tenacity, go over your rates and get it right
28 DAG - Another spoon feeding of AMS and probably Milo at bag rate
28 DAG+ - When seed is above 2" in height mow at 1.5-2". I have a manual reel to keep the weight on the new seedlings as little as possible. Mow at this height for 4 weeks
37 DAG - More spoon fed N as needed
45 DAG - More spoon fed N as needed
60 DAG - Apply prodiamine. Continue spoon feeding. Do NOT forget to apply prodiamine.

Front - West Facing - picture taken at noon


Side - West Facing


Side - North Facing


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

This sounds like a solid plan! The only additions I may add would be tenacity at seed down on 8/7 and potentially Azoxystrobin at seed down as well. Azoxy at seed down will help alleviate any present soil fungus pressure and then go ahead with propi once the plants are at the 2-3 leaf stage.

One piece of advice - and I'll be following along to help in any way I can during the process - when it comes to renovation, especially with KBG, don't adjust your dates dramatically after seed down to focus on seed that got thrown down later for bare areas. Keep the focus on the majority, especially when it comes to your 60 DAG prodiamine app. You do not want to be late on that!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

@OnTheLawn Thank You Sir. I had calculating my Tenacity rates prior to and then didn't even throw it in to my day of seed process. Can't be forgetting that! Edited my post.

I appreciate the additional advice, I even made a note to not forget that prodiamine app as I know the heartache that you went through, although; your Mazama area looks killer now. Thank you for chiming in!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Took some soil samples today after irrigating this morning. Will be sending off to Waypoint Analytical in Iowa here soon. Will be applying 1lb N/M this weekend to start promoting good growth.

Ordered a few rainbird 5000+ heads this morning. I will be adding a sprinkler head to my backyard that will need to be turned off manually during seed watering cycle because it will be tied to the zone on the north side.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

6/6 - Put down .78lbs N/M of Ammonium of Sulfate 21-0-0 this evening. I was aiming for 1lb to promote growth but I only had 13lbs left of product. .78lbs will have to do. Irrigated in the morning.

Temps are pretty consistent in the low 90s for this coming week with no substantial rain in sight.

Have been doing some research on fungicides on seed down and to be included in the arsenal of products thereafter. Something that i don't have that I have been looking into are Azoxystrobin as well as mefenoxam.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Azoxystrobin at seed down is a great idea. Helps prevent soil borne diseases and lasts long enough in the soil that when the grass develops roots, it'll take it up and protect the plant further.

Haven't looked into mefenoxam at seed down, but I have researched and used propiconazole at the 2-3 leaf stage. It's labeled for use during establishment and will help aid in it during that time period. It has growth regulating properties and slows the top growth so the plant puts its energy into root development early on.

My reno plan was azoxy at seed down via granular and then propi at 2-3 leaf stage via spray. Although granular versus spray isn't a huge factor for a reno. Just make sure to follow the lower, preventative rates.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Thank you for the advice @OnTheLawn it is very much appreciated! Did you use Scott's disease ex at seed down?

@JerseyGreens I have been looking into material to hold seed in place (especially on my sloped side) and saw that you linked a product to M-Binder Tackifier-Soil Stabilizer. Did you follow the recommended yet very broad rate of 60-140lbs per acre?


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I don't recall what rate I used but I definitely ran out of product before getting full coverage on my slope. Stuff is hard to spread but works great.

I'd get extra and just see how far it gets you.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Yup, just went with Disease Ex. For me it was the most cost effective from a (the wife's) budget perspective. If you can swing the concentrated liquid, so it. The cost per application is significantly cheaper.

I also used a tackifier, but it wasn't quite as robust as the M-Binder, but it worked. It was the Pennington Slopemaster available at Lowe's. Definitely helped during the washout I experienced.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

OnTheLawn said:


> Yup, just went with Disease Ex. For me it was the most cost effective from a (the wife's) budget perspective. If you can swing the concentrated liquid, so it. The cost per application is significantly cheaper.
> 
> I also used a tackifier, but it wasn't quite as robust as the M-Binder, but it worked. It was the Pennington Slopemaster available at Lowe's. Definitely helped during the washout I experienced.


Funny you mention the Pennington slope master as that has been in my plans as It isn't too back breaking and the reviews looked pretty dang solid. I may go ahead and splurge for some liquid azoxystrobin to have it at the ready if needed moving forward. It certainly isn't cheap though. Thanks for chiming in gents.


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## Lust4Lawn (Aug 4, 2020)

When I did my reno last year I put down Disease Ex at 2lbs/k at seed down. I got a full 30 days of protection and then had to spray propiconazole 14.3 at 1 oz/k.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Lust4Lawn said:


> When I did my reno last year I put down Disease Ex at 2lbs/k at seed down. I got a full 30 days of protection and then had to spray propiconazole 14.3 at 1 oz/k.


Thanks for chiming in. I'll have to go through your Reno journal again as I'm sure I have read it at least once!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

6/11 - I did another irrigation audit today. One area that is looking quite crispy did not fill up my test cup whatsoever. I'm going to test run that zone later and see what the deal is. I have a few areas that are getting minimal amounts so I will need to do some work to get those where I need them.

I ordered a 50lb bag of SOP 0-0-50 today from Seed Barn. I couldn't find any local. At least not less than a ton at a time!

I also ordered some M-binder tackifier soil stabilizer from Nature's Seed - 10lbs. I will likely use this in conjunction with peat moss for a covering. The futerra nets are cool but pricey $$$.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

6/14/21 - I sent off my soil sample to Waypoint Analytical in Iowa. Last night, I ordered 20lbs of Mazama from CD Ford & Sons. It's getting really hot and dry here, upper 90s for the remainder of the week. I will have to make sure I'm on top of the forecast come seed down date.

At this point, I have all the tools required to spread and level top soil/compost. I need to get going on some irrigation work this week. I have also decided to aerate early on in the process that allows for proper fallowing time prior to seed down. I also plan to take down some dead limbs this week from the tree in the front yard. This will allow a little more sun to hit this area as well.

Here is the tag from the Mazama I ordered:


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

I received my soil test back from Waypoint Analytical. Pretty strange how different my backyard soil can be from my front yard. The only caveat is that I used mysoiltesting for the backyard.

My pH is higher in the front versus the back (7.6 and 7.1 respectively). All in all, I am pretty happy with the front results. I have some elemental sulfur that I will put down here soon at 1lb/M to try and bring my pH down. Any other recommendations?



The past week I have been bringing down the HOC slowly in the reno front area. I also trimmed quite a few branches off of the tree in the front to allow more sunlight to that area. I replaced a head with a rain bird 5000 where I was having some trouble with apparent drying out. I still have some tweaking to do with the current irrigation setup (move one head and add an additional head) - this will happen after the kill.

Big weekend coming up, I will be applying Gly this Saturday and then head on vacation to avoid the inevitable neighbors asking me questions on what in the hell happened. I'm ready but also pretty dang nervous to start the process. I am also reconsidering using a 70/30 topsoil compost mix and instead going with 100% screened topsoil. I still need to gather some samples.

I haven't researched or looked at labeling yet but am I good to tank mix azoxy and tenacity to get it all done in one shot on seed down day?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Numbers look good. Elemental sulfur will help, but it's a long journey to get there. Phos level looks great heading into a reno.

For the topsoil, I would recommend going with 100% topsoil. Adding compost into it will cause more settling of the top layer once you have it leveled, so I would go with 100% topsoil. I've also changed my stance on peat moss as a cover once the seed goes down. Depending on what kind of compost you can get, you could look at putting the topsoil down and then after seed down covering in compost. Don't need a ton, under a 1/4" layer, but it's easier to wet than peat moss. Peat can be super finicky. Granted, it worked for me, but based on the last Thirsty Thursday Grass Factor podcast, I'm not as much of a fan of it. Mainly because it's quite acidic (typically around 4.4 ph) and that's quite acidic to have right at the seed. Again, it works, but there are better options.

And you're good to tank mix azoxy and tenacity.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

OnTheLawn said:


> Numbers look good. Elemental sulfur will help, but it's a long journey to get there. Phos level looks great heading into a reno.
> 
> For the topsoil, I would recommend going with 100% topsoil. Adding compost into it will cause more settling of the top layer once you have it leveled, so I would go with 100% topsoil. I've also changed my stance on peat moss as a cover once the seed goes down. Depending on what kind of compost you can get, you could look at putting the topsoil down and then after seed down covering in compost. Don't need a ton, under a 1/4" layer, but it's easier to wet than peat moss. Peat can be super finicky. Granted, it worked for me, but based on the last Thirsty Thursday Grass Factor podcast, I'm not as much of a fan of it. Mainly because it's quite acidic (typically around 4.4 ph) and that's quite acidic to have right at the seed. Again, it works, but there are better options.
> 
> And you're good to tank mix azoxy and tenacity.


Always appreciate your input @OnTheLawn. I think I will be going with 100% topsoil as you mentioned as I'm really looking forward to a level(ish) lawn. I know even that will settle with time so why make things even worse with compost.. I had heard on Ryan Knorr's podcast about using mushroom compost as a topper, I'll look into that as well. I'll have to check out that Thirsty Thursday Grass Factor podcast.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Had a busy afternoon today. I replaced a head that was having issues on the north side with a rain bird 5000 and got it dialed in how I want it.

With concern to my front portion facing West, I had a cut in my electrical line for the irrigation. Before we bought this home, some work was done to the foundation and of course they cut the line not once but twice. It was not a fun job but I managed to get it done.

Getting prepped for Saturday with my gly at the ready. Will be mixing with some AMS to promote a good kill.

Here is a little snapshot of me finally finding the second cut in electrical:


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Welp. Too much rain here in denver yesterday, today and tomorrow. I will be putting off the kill until I return from vacation. Guess that's why everyone is always preaching to allow plenty of time for a Reno!


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

Liquidstone said:


> Welp. Too much rain here in denver yesterday, today and tomorrow. I will be putting off the kill until I return from vacation. Guess that's why everyone is always preaching to allow plenty of time for a Reno!


Gly is rsinfast in an hour. My advise, If you get a window do It. You will be doing a few rounds in any case. With the first app now anything surviving will flourish with the rain and you can hit with 2nd round when you come back.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

@uts My window was so tight today. It rained pretty much all mid morning and afternoon. If I had been out around 7 It may have worked but it was too close to tell. Oh well, I feel good about my schedule. Thanks for chiming in!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

6/30 - Had my Dad mow the front yard so it didn't get too tall before coming back from Vacation

7/5 - Mowed the front at 2.75"

7/7 - Applied a mixture of:
.25lbs N/M AMS
4.57oz/M Glyphosate
.3oz/M Surfactant

7/7 - Got a good sized piece of tupperware to seed in for plugs in the future. I'll probably do a couple more of these for the heck of it and i'll likely need it. I used straight native soil. They are about 2 sq ft total. On one half I threw down the equivalent of 1ish lbs N/M of Milo. I tried to throw down the equivalent of 2lbs/M of my Mazama but my scale isn't accurate enough so I'm sure it was more around 3lbs/M.

From here i'll start fallowing daily. I've still got a lot to do. I ended up purchasing all new sprinkler heads to replace some of the impacts in my system. I have 6 impacts to swap to gear driven heads. I'll start doing this once I see good kill. I'll also be adding a zone for a drip system to go to the back yard garden. Let the fun begin!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

No turning back now!! Let's goooooo


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

OnTheLawn said:


> No turning back now!! Let's goooooo


  You said it!


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

You know you're sick when you come home excited to see how much more deader the lawn has become.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

lbb091919 said:


> You know you're sick when you come home excited to see how much more deader the lawn has become.


Haha. Sick and twisted indeed. You've got a head start on me.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

I haven't updated here in a bit.

7/16 - Trimmed more branches from the large tree in the front to allow more sunlight in. It is still pretty filtered and I'm sure I will have a tough time with coverage in this area. If it is really tough, I can always throw down some TTTF. It'll be a good little experiment. I also removed some large rocks that were next to my sidewalk leading up to the house that have been driving me insane since I moved in.

7/18 - This morning I put down my third app of Gly. The grass is pretty widespread dead but I still had a few strips that needed more. This will likely be my last app prior to bringing in top soil. I will be dethatching this week in order to get all that dead material up and bagged. More than likely, I will have top soil delivered this Friday or Saturday.

Here are some time comparisons of how much sun the front section by the tree gets:

8am (prior to trimming more):


Noon (prior to trimming more):


4pm (after trimming):


Side yard shot to show the lovely kill:


Bonus pic of my dog enjoying the grass that still exists in the back:


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## Mark2 (Jun 3, 2021)

Liquidstone said:


> Bonus pic of my dog enjoying the grass that still exists in the back:


Haha I love the pic of the dog keeping an eye on the grass that's still alive. Nothing happening on his watch!

It will be interesting to watch how the grass fills in under the big tree. I bet it'll get there eventually with just KBG, just may take a season or two. That side yard is going to be money though.


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## Bob Loblawn (Apr 10, 2020)

Nice work on the trim, think that's going to come in very nicely.

Looking forward to following along!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Mark2 said:


> Haha I love the pic of the dog keeping an eye on the grass that's still alive. Nothing happening on his watch!
> 
> It will be interesting to watch how the grass fills in under the big tree. I bet it'll get there eventually with just KBG, just may take a season or two. That side yard is going to be money though.


Haha, I reno'd a few sections in the back this spring and put up fencing that he was not a fan of whatsoever. He likes his grass. The tree area will be interesting for sure. A good test for Mazama and I'm hopeful that you're right about a season or two.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

I just walked the front yard this evening. Last Gly app was on 7/18 and I felt like I did a good job at hitting the areas that were still showing some sign of life. Well, some areas (very few) still look like they are doing their best to hang on and are still sporting a bit of green.

Thoughts on hitting it with another spot app of Gly tomorrow morning? This would be my 4th app but I would likely not blanket spray.

I plan to dethatch tomorrow and aerate on Friday. Saturday morning I will receive top soil and start to level out and spread.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

I'd give it a bit. Ideally you want gly to work slowly and not overload it. You want it to work through the entire plant and into the root system. You'll have plenty of time to hit any spots later on that manage to hang on. Once you get the soil down just make sure you're watering frequently to get potential weed seeds to germinate and knock em out.

If you do see any grass still holding on, you can make apps of gly right up until seed down and be fine.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

OnTheLawn said:


> I'd give it a bit. Ideally you want gly to work slowly and not overload it. You want it to work through the entire plant and into the root system. You'll have plenty of time to hit any spots later on that manage to hang on. Once you get the soil down just make sure you're watering frequently to get potential weed seeds to germinate and knock em out.
> 
> If you do see any grass still holding on, you can make apps of gly right up until seed down and be fine.


Appreciate it man! Already getting a bit ahead of myself. Always good to get another perspective. Thanks


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Liquidstone said:


> I just walked the front yard this evening. Last Gly app was on 7/18 and I felt like I did a good job at hitting the areas that were still showing some sign of life. Well, some areas (very few) still look like they are doing their best to hang on and are still sporting a bit of green.
> 
> Thoughts on hitting it with another spot app of Gly tomorrow morning? This would be my 4th app but I would likely not blanket spray.
> 
> I plan to dethatch tomorrow and aerate on Friday. Saturday morning I will receive top soil and start to level out and spread.


We'll be spreading soil at the same time. Mines getting delivered on Friday morning.

Good call on dethatching before aerating. I tried to use my raked up cores to fill in a low spot and there was so much dead grass mixed in that it became spongy. Probably gonna shovel it up and use just topsoil.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Make a plan to get the topsoil settling into the old soil...I went with an asphalt roller but anything with a heavy drum will do!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

lbb091919 said:


> We'll be spreading soil at the same time. Mines getting delivered on Friday morning.
> 
> Good call on dethatching before aerating. I tried to use my raked up cores to fill in a low spot and there was so much dead grass mixed in that it became spongy. Probably gonna shovel it up and use just topsoil.


I believe that. Good call on just using topsoil.



JerseyGreens said:


> Make a plan to get the topsoil settling into the old soil...I went with an asphalt roller but anything with a heavy drum will do!


Haha! I still love that gif you have rolling (no pun) around. I'll be renting a roller and will make sure to roll it often during the fallowing phase to let it incorporate and settle. I should just buy one but they are so bulky and I only have a single car garage...


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

I can't remember who suggested it, but pulling the SunJoe backwards is so much more effective. I didn't do the entire yard this way but up against the driveway/sidewalk I pulled it into the concrete and it just shredded everything down to the dirt. It was amazing!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

lbb091919 said:


> I can't remember who suggested it, but pulling the SunJoe backwards is so much more effective. I didn't do the entire yard this way but up against the driveway/sidewalk I pulled it into the concrete and it just shredded everything down to the dirt. It was amazing!


Man you aren't lying. I just got done dethatching and I should have just done the whole thing backwards. It pulls up so much more material. That dethatching prepping for seed down is no easy task. I'm glad I'm done. I ran the rotary over the yard after to pick up the debris and it just didn't quite cut it. I really don't want to rake the whole thing.. I may end up using the blower and pile it up on the sidewalk and driveway. That isn't super effective either though. Plans to aerate tomorrow afternoon.

Also, my entire neighborhood thinks I'm out of my effing mind. It's great.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

I did the same with the rotary. It was Dust Bowl 2021. Had a record number of people out walking last night all staring at me thinking "what is this lunatic doing"


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Had a good day today. A lot of work but good prep for seed down. Also, had a UPS driver that stopped along his route and he said, "you doing a reno?" That honestly made my day. Talked about the seed I was putting down and it was a breath of fresh air to talk to someone that knew what I was doing and why. Good dude. Told him to swing by again to check up on the headway. He also mentioned that he remembered delivering my seed. Good stuff.

Started off this morning using my blower to collect more dead clippings into the road to sweep up. Honestly, this step could have been avoided, I wish I would have just made more passes with the rotary to suck up all the dead stuff. From there, I aerated (the Home Depot aerator I rented was sub par for my intentions). I may have not had some of the soil as wet as it needed to be to pull substantial cores but it is what it is, lesson learned. After that, I made multiple passes with the rotary to collect more dead clippings and mulch the cores. I feel like my seed bed is looking pretty good at the moment, especially since I am bringing in 8 yards of topsoil in the morning. Like @ibb091919 mentioned, I also pulled out the string trimmer to clean up some low spots.

A few pics of where I am at:

Side yard:




Front Yard:




Close up:


Image of some little green grass that is just trying it's best to hang on:


A good majority of the surface:


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Lots of bare dirt there looking nice! Aerator did work on that last shot. Good luck with topsoil today!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

lbb091919 said:


> Lots of bare dirt there looking nice! Aerator did work on that last shot. Good luck with topsoil today!


Thanks man. This is some tough work, not going to lie. I enjoy it though. Could be a little cooler…

Really busted tail this weekend and got the 8 yards I had delivered spread and pretty good and flat for the time being. I'm honestly probably going to need to bring In some more soil after settling occurs.

8 yards delivered


Front near locust tree:


Side yard shots:




What's the best way to approach the edges? Have topsoil run off onto the concrete and then clean it up with an edger once solid growth has occurred?

I'm going to either use some heavy gauge steel grating to work as a drag mat or purchase something to drag and get rid of the smaller bumps that I have. Might as well get er as good as I can while I have the opportunity. I'm also considering renting an asphalt roller like @JerseyGreens did.

Pretty happy with where I am at the moment. I'm going to rent a trencher and run pvc to the back garden for a hose faucet down there, the fiancé will be happy with that and she's been amazing and supportive during this project.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Nice work man. Here I thought 5 yards was tough. Looks real smooth.

The edges have taken the most time for me. I'm just taking it all the way to the concrete so you can't even tell where the transition is and plan to address it later on after everything's good and established.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Great job spreading and leveling that soil. I don't think you will need an asphalt spreader. You got a nice, thin layer of soil down.

Look into this:

Brinly PRC-24BH 270-Pound Combination Push/Tow Poly Lawn Roller, 18 by 24-Inch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0021BSLYS/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_XMK5XX9F9BWYTX4G9EHM?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

It will be useful for seed to soil contact as well on seed down day.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:


> Great job spreading and leveling that soil. I don't think you will need an asphalt spreader. You got a nice, thin layer of soil down.
> 
> Look into this:
> 
> ...


That's the same roller I have. Does a great job just a bear to push around.


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## Bob Loblawn (Apr 10, 2020)

Wow the yard is looking great- that must've been a ton of work hauling all that soil. But the reward will be worth it! Looks nice and smooooooth.

Are you still aiming for seed down next week?

Glad you gave a supportive fiancé…congrats, when is the wedding? You'll have to get some glamour shots on the brand new lawn


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Bob Loblawn said:


> Wow the yard is looking great- that must've been a ton of work hauling all that soil. But the reward will be worth it! Looks nice and smooooooth.
> 
> Are you still aiming for seed down next week?
> 
> Glad you gave a supportive fiancé…congrats, when is the wedding? You'll have to get some glamour shots on the brand new lawn


Thank you Sir. Not going to lie I was beat afterward. Wouldn't be possible without the go ahead from the better half! I'll be seeding some time between 8/10-8/14. I want to make sure I fallow for long enough and get rid of any undesirable grasses/weeds that come up. I also ordered a drag mat and will be dragging multiple times to try and get that ultimate flat surface. I still have some low spots so I will need to get more topsoil as well.

I'll have to let my fiancé know about the glamour shots because that is an excellent idea! We're still trying to lock down a date and venue, it's been quite the hassle and I'm glad I'm not spearheading that ship.


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## uts (Jul 8, 2019)

What did you use for the leveling?


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

uts said:


> What did you use for the leveling?


I Spread out piles with a landscape rake, then smoothed it out with a level lawn and then lastly I rolled it with one of those brimly rollers that you would rent from Home Depot. I'm due for another rolling with the settling I'm experiencing in my lowest spots especially.

I brought in some more top soil today and hit those low spots. Starting to worry about having enough time to fallow.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

This project is really beginning to take shape! The best parts are still to come...seeding, watering, and watching the grass grow. I'll definitely be following.


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## kk07 (Sep 2, 2020)

Can you please explain the reason behind the prodiamine app at 60 DAG?


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

That app will help prevent undesirable grasses/weeds to germinate.

Here is a great guide that g-man put together that can provide more info: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16808


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Been a while since I've updated here. Work, life, etc.

@Chuuurles inspired me to bring in additional topsoil with some compost as well. I built up a good level base with the topsoil I had delivered but it had too much gravel in it. I want a good healthy seed bed and even though the compost will settle I feel like it will aid during the germination process.

I really stacked up a lot of additions on top of this Reno. I added another sprinkler zone to an area that I was concerned with. I also ran water to the back yard so that I now have a hose faucet right next to the garden. To cap things off, I added a French drain to the downspout nearest my gate. This will help with that area not getting flooded out in the event of a heavy rain as well. I got all of this about wrapped up the morning of 8/8. Re-leveling the side yard was a pain but all of it will be worth the while.

8/7
I raked off a lot of the top layer that was riddled with gravel. After this, I did a blanket spray of gly. That afternoon, I rolled with a lawn roller to get things good and level before spreading compost.

8/8
Spread an additional 3 yards of topsoil/compost mix. Used the level lawn and then pulled a drag mat many times and then rolled it out with the lawn roller.

8/9
Leveled out a valve box in the front. Rolled the yard again prior to returning the lawn roller to Home Depot.

I feel like I'm in a good spot but I'm also eager to get seed down. Plan from here until seed down is:

-Fallow
8/13 - blanket gly
8/14 - seed down 
8/15 - chill out, drink a beer and cross my fingers

View from front steps:


View towards house:


Side yard:


Valve box with new valve and water line to back garden:


Hidden drain with corrugated pipe to mulch bed:


Side yard with Linden Tree removed (Japanese beetles smoked this thing and it needed to go):


Back garden hose faucet:


Stay tuned for seed down!


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## Bob Loblawn (Apr 10, 2020)

Looking good! Very impressed how much work you've done and I think you are all set up for success. Seed down day is going to feel like such a reward. That bed of topsoil/compost is a beautiful sight and it's going to be even sweeter when seed makes it way on top.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Great idea on the compost mix. Bet you're just as anxious as me going into this weekend. I've been hounding the weather app haha


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Thank you gents. Congrats on that green up Bob! I'm looking forward to it.

Lbb, I'm definitely anxious. I hate to even get too drastic to jinx myself but there is currently no rain in my extended forecast.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Going through all of my rates today for seed down this Saturday. I read on the azoxy label that I need .38oz/M (preventative) with 2-4 gallons carrier per thousand sq ft. Am I an idiot thinking that I can get away with spraying it at 1gal carrier/M?

I'm planning to tank mix azoxy and tenacity and would like to get it all done in one shot.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Liquidstone said:


> I read on the azoxy label that I need .38oz/M (preventative) with 2-4 gallons carrier per thousand sq ft. Am I an idiot thinking that I can get away with spraying it at 1gal carrier/M?


I do without any issues.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Good deal, thanks zeus.


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## CaffeinatedLawnCare (Apr 2, 2021)

Looking nice! I dealt with a lot of peat moss running off the edges as well, I think it will just naturally settle to wherever it wants and you'll have to keep sweeping it back into the lawn and then eventually clean it up with an edger once things establish.

I'd second the 1 gal/M, I usually spray at this rate no matter what I'm putting down and haven't had any problems with anything I've sprayed :bandit:.

Edit: *make sure to water in afterwards depending on what you're spraying though ...


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Exciting day today! Good luck with everything and I hope it all goes smooth.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Thanks Man. It was a long day! All done though. It was a success. Going to post a write up tomorrow. Headed out for dinner and a much needed beer!


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Liquidstone said:


> lbb091919 said:
> 
> 
> > I can't remember who suggested it, but pulling the SunJoe backwards is so much more effective. I didn't do the entire yard this way but up against the driveway/sidewalk I pulled it into the concrete and it just shredded everything down to the dirt. It was amazing!
> ...


Glad I ran accross this thread. I'm behind and should have started mine 2-3 weeks earlier. Oh well.
Neighbors think i'm crazy too. they'll be amazed when my KBG looks awesome spring of 2023. Well, I will be amazed anyway.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Liquidstone said:


> lbb091919 said:
> 
> 
> > I can't remember who suggested it, but pulling the SunJoe backwards is so much more effective. I didn't do the entire yard this way but up against the driveway/sidewalk I pulled it into the concrete and it just shredded everything down to the dirt. It was amazing!
> ...


were you running the sunjoe with the dethatcher springs, or were you using the scarifier pulling it backwards?


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

steffen707 said:


> Liquidstone said:
> 
> 
> > lbb091919 said:
> ...


I was running it with the dethatching tines for that portion on the -10 setting. IMO, that's the only way to go. Pulling it backwards is also key. It's a tedious process. I'll check out your journal and best of luck!


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Liquidstone said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> > Liquidstone said:
> ...


Awesome, thanks for the reply. I never pulled it backwards, but I did discover this spring that if you slow it down by kind of holding it back it would dig in more. I think i'll try the backwards method to get rid of as much debris as i can, then i think i'm going to scarify it a ton to get the soil loosened up before I add more soil and smooth out the bumps/dips with a level-lawn.


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## Robs92k (May 9, 2021)

Very nice journal and fantastic looking work. Reno's are fun to watch but scare the hell out of me.

Any recent pics?


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## kman6234 (Jul 29, 2021)

Can't wait to see how seed down day went and future posts on the results! Looks like you went all out and hope all your hard work pays off!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

kman6234 said:


> Can't wait to see how seed down day went and future posts on the results! Looks like you went all out and hope all your hard work pays off!


Thank you kman. I hope it pays off as well.

Recap of my day yesterday.

-Watered the night before to loosen the soil up.
-Last round of gly in the morning
-Raked up the area to loosen the soil
-Put down 2.1 lbs/M of Mazama seed
-Put down 2 32lb bags of Milorganite 
equivalent to 1.1lbs N/M and .75lbs P/M
-Raked in the seed
-Sprayed Tenacity @ 4oz/acre and Azoxy preventative at .38oz/M
-Rolled the yard 
-Put down M-Binder tackifier on my side yard sloped section
-Distributed some slopemaster tackifier to entire yard
-Spread Peat Moss

It was a long day but all went smoothly. I am currently watering 8 times per day and may cut it to 7. It is extremely dry here so I will play it by ear.

After putting down m binder and slopemaster:








Current Status:







All in all it was a good day. I wish I would have put a little more water down in some areas prior to raking initially. I think it would have helped the rolling portion to keep things as flat as possible. Spreading peat moss is a huge pain in the neck!


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## Bob Loblawn (Apr 10, 2020)

Congrats my friend! Take a break, relax…you deserve it. It's looking great and your hard work is going to pay off. Can't wait to see the first grass babies pics - hopefully in the next week!

I'm also interested to see what happens around the tree area versus elsewhere. Oddly enough my first germination was near more shaded areas under trees.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Thanks Bob! Man, I hope that is the case under the tree. I'm nervous that area is going to be a serious struggle. Time will tell.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Let the games begin! Everything looks great man. Wife vetoed the caution tape but I was able to compromise with orange ribbon. Are you finding that the peat is keeping things moist enough where you actually modified the irrigation schedule?


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

Nice even coverage with that peat moss, damn! I understand why some people skip that step, but for me just the color change of the peat dry vs. wet helps me identify areas that are or are not getting adequately watered.


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## Chuuurles (Nov 23, 2020)

Huge effort! Looks amazing man, same seed down date as me :beer:


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

I tried posting this before, sorry if it shows up twice, did you read somewhere that the tackifier should go down before the peat moss?

It makes sense to apply the glue in-between the layers, but I thought I've seen others throw it down after the peat moss and let it water in to gum everything up.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Robs92k said:


> Very nice journal and fantastic looking work. Reno's are fun to watch but scare the hell out of me.
> 
> Any recent pics?


Thanks Rob, appreciate it. I just checked out your journal and I enjoyed the read very much! I'm with you on reno's. I think that's what makes things so exciting is the challenge as well.



lbb091919 said:


> Let the games begin! Everything looks great man. Wife vetoed the caution tape but I was able to compromise with orange ribbon. Are you finding that the peat is keeping things moist enough where you actually modified the irrigation schedule?


Thank you sir. As soon as I put up the caution tape I had a neighbor over calling me the detective and asking about "the crime scene" ha. I do believe the peat is helping keep things moist and for longer. I have not modified irrigation yet. I am watering 8 times a day and could probably do 6-7. Only issue is I'll be gone all next week for work. Will have to rely on the better half for updates. Looking forward to your seed down day.



jskierko said:


> Nice even coverage with that peat moss, damn! I understand why some people skip that step, but for me just the color change of the peat dry vs. wet helps me identify areas that are or are not getting adequately watered.


The peat step was absolutely the worst part. That landzie spreader price tag didn't seem too bad half way through hand spreading it. Agreed 100% on the color change helping with watering. Looking forward to seeing updates on your backyard.



Chuuurles said:


> Huge effort! Looks amazing man, same seed down date as me :beer:


Thank you sir. Seed down date buds for sure :beer: Your Reno looks like perfection. With your PRG in the mix, you'll probably be back to mowing in no time!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

steffen707 said:


> I tried posting this before, sorry if it shows up twice, did you read somewhere that the tackifier should go down before the peat moss?
> 
> It makes sense to apply the glue in-between the layers, but I thought I've seen others throw it down after the peat moss and let it water in to gum everything up.


Hey no worries. I did not read that anywhere. With all the research I've done I'm surprised I didn't look into it more. It honestly just seemed more logical for me to throw down before the peat. I'm sure you could do it either way.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Liquidstone said:


> steffen707 said:
> 
> 
> > I tried posting this before, sorry if it shows up twice, did you read somewhere that the tackifier should go down before the peat moss?
> ...


definately more logical to put the glue between the 2 things you're gluing. i've got two more weeks to go so i've got time to decide.


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## mowww (Jan 16, 2018)

@Liquidstone my first time making it over to your journal. Great cataloging of progress. Excited to see how it turns out.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Just checking out your journal after seeing your reply on mine. Holy crap man, you're definitely doing things right. You're going to be fine without scarifying. Cheers to all the work you put in thus far. Green babies coming in about 5/6 days! We're now officially Mazama brothers. Lol


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

mowww said:


> @Liquidstone my first time making it over to your journal. Great cataloging of progress. Excited to see how it turns out.


Thank you much!



jrubb42 said:


> Just checking out your journal after seeing your reply on mine. Holy crap man, you're definitely doing things right. You're going to be fine without scarifying. Cheers to all the work you put in thus far. Green babies coming in about 5/6 days! We're now officially Mazama brothers. Lol


Mazama brothers no doubt! Cheers to you sir, I know you busted tail as well. Green babies can't come soon enough.


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## Lust4Lawn (Aug 4, 2020)

It looks like we are on the same paths in many ways. I look forward to following along.


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## Bob Loblawn (Apr 10, 2020)

Liquidstone said:


> Thanks Bob! Man, I hope that is the case under the tree. I'm nervous that area is going to be a serious struggle. Time will tell.


I think you'll be just fine - even if it comes in slower, many have had success with KBG under trees with the germination filling in over time. All will be well!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Well, I think I jinxed myself. While out of town, received about .6" of rain in about 10-15 minutes. Pretty close to germination day as well. Today is 5 days post seed down. I don't think the washout is too bad but I'm also not around. It could be worse. Here are some pics from my better half. I won't be back until Sunday evening to check it out.











One thing I am impressed with is the m-binder tackifier I put down on the side sloped section. It hung in strong.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Good to hear the m-binder did it's job. Doesn't look too bad from the pics but I'm sure it's agonizing not being able to be there. I bet you'll see babies soon!


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Liquidstone said:


> Well, I think I jinxed myself. While out of town, received about .6" of rain in about 10-15 minutes. Pretty close to germination day as well. Today is 5 days post seed down. I don't think the washout is too bad but I'm also not around. It could be worse. Here are some pics from my better half. I won't be back until Sunday evening to check it out.
> 
> 
> One thing I am impressed with is the m-binder tackifier I put down on the side sloped section. It hung in strong.


Is this picture of the sloped section?

Did you just throw down the grannual m-binder tackifier, or did you mix it with water and spray it?


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

lbb091919 said:


> Good to hear the m-binder did it's job. Doesn't look too bad from the pics but I'm sure it's agonizing not being able to be there. I bet you'll see babies soon!


It really did man. I think I was a bit heavy on the peat moss as well which didn't hurt things with this event. I hope you're right man.



steffen707 said:


> Liquidstone said:
> 
> 
> > 1629415926[/url] user_id=13879]
> ...


Yes, that is the sloped section. I spread it, it's hard to spread. Have to either get a good feed in the spreader or slam that thing down to spit out that material.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Liquidstone said:


> Yes, that is the sloped section. I spread it, it's hard to spread. Have to either get a good feed in the spreader or slam that thing down to spit out that material.


 :shock:   
Well, i'll soon find out myself. Thanks for the tips. :thumbup:


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## Chuuurles (Nov 23, 2020)

That slope really did well. I am no expert but this doesnt look too bad. Compare this to what @JerseyGreens went thru last year and look how his lawn turned out


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Looks ok. Keep posting pictures here once we see germ. Do you have any more seed on hand just in case?


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Chuuurles said:


> That slope really did well. I am no expert but this doesnt look too bad. Compare this to what @JerseyGreens went thru last year and look how his lawn turned out


I thought so too. It didn't seem too bad but obviously I'm anxious. Waiting to see.



JerseyGreens said:


> Looks ok. Keep posting pictures here once we see germ. Do you have any more seed on hand just in case?


Will do. I have plenty of extra seed on hand.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Ok let's see germination pics!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

lbb091919 said:


> Ok let's see germination pics!


 It looks pretty good from pics my fiancé has sent me. I can't get home soon enough.. I'm going with germination as of yesterday evening, 7 days post seed down. Here's one for a hold over.


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

Oh man that is some reno eye candy! Looks so even, congrats &#128079;


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Yessir congrats!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Cruise control! Don't see much washed out.


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## kman6234 (Jul 29, 2021)

Looking great! Glad the rain didn't seem to wash much away!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Thanks guys! It does look pretty even from the pics I've seen. I'm hoping that is the case. I'll be able to assess here more today.


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## Bob Loblawn (Apr 10, 2020)

Yesssss congrats on the grass babies! Looking great- can't wait for more updates later today


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

If 1/4 of my 3700 reno is mazama, does that make us mazama cousins once removed? :lol:
My grandma was a genealogist.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

steffen707 said:


> If 1/4 of my 3700 reno is mazama, does that make us mazama cousins once removed? :lol:
> My grandma was a genealogist.


Haha, it absolutely does and I'm sure your grandma was a great woman!


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

so now i'm 9.25% mazama, 9.25% bewitched and 18.5% Bluebank and 63% lawn salad.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

-10 days Post Seed Down-
-3 Days after Germination-

Like I mentioned, germination is widespread. I'm pretty dang pumped, not going to lie. There was definitely some washout from the .6" of rain in 10-15 minutes but it isn't too bad at all. I ended up tossing some seed in the larger bare areas this morning. I also need to put a lesser gpm head on one of my corner sprinklers as that area is staying much too moist. Here's some pics.







This area below is going to be a bit problematic. I believe these are locust trees that are sprouting up like wildfire beneath my large locust tree. If someone thinks different, please let me know.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

I hope its not a thorny locust


My oak tree has been dropping acorns like crazy now. I might get a few sprouting up myself!


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## Bob Loblawn (Apr 10, 2020)

How we looking heading into the weekend?? Love to see some progress pics.

Think you're right with the locust seeds sprouting. We have maple trees around here that produce the whirlies that embed into the soil as big clumps and grow into mini trees. Was a PITA for my spring reno, but ultimately you just keep mowing them and they disappear - and the KBG fills in. Hopefully that will be the same idea for the locust and it will be nothing to worry about.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Bob Loblawn said:


> How we looking heading into the weekend?? Love to see some progress pics.
> 
> Think you're right with the locust seeds sprouting. We have maple trees around here that produce the whirlies that embed into the soil as big clumps and grow into mini trees. Was a PITA for my spring reno, but ultimately you just keep mowing them and they disappear - and the KBG fills in. Hopefully that will be the same idea for the locust and it will be nothing to worry about.


I hope you're right. They are most certainly a PITA!

- 13 days post seed down -
- 6 DAG -

Here are the usual pics. I crouched down here. I will stand next time to get solid time lapse pics.







Here is some of the clover pressure I am getting near the front corner mulch bed. The gly struggled with these from the get go. Man are they resilient. I picked quite a few today but it's hard to not also pick out the Mazama. They're a a pain and I know I'll be battling them for a while.



Here is the back corner, north facing that gets pretty well shaded by the fence and stays moist all day. It's struggling. I shut this head off today and will set something up shortly on a timer to water morning and evening. I'll hand water in the meantime.



Here is an area over by my front large tree that is doing very well. It gets more sun than directly under the tree.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

That clover weed looks like it might be purslane. I had a bunch pop up while fallowing. Pics look great by the way. I bet your stoked to finally be home and monitor it closely through the weekend.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Yes, that's what it is, you are spot on. Holy hell is it hard to get rid of. I hope you were able to. It's been great finally being able to monitor things. I feel like it's approaching that sprout and pout stage which I'm not stoked on.


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## Bob Loblawn (Apr 10, 2020)

Looking great! And looks like under that tree is coming in really nicely. I know that was a lot of work for you to trim back those branches and open up some more sun light.


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Liquidstone said:


> Yes, that's what it is, you are spot on. Holy hell is it hard to get rid of. I hope you were able to. It's been great finally being able to monitor things. I feel like it's approaching that sprout and pout stage which I'm not stoked on.


A lot of mine got chopped up every time I had to re-scarify after storms but the gly did an ok job. Interested to see if it persists in the next week or so.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Day 20 post seed down update.

Definitely still in the sprout and pout stage. It's so tough when you look at it daily. Nice to document with pics. The purslane pressure is stronnnng by the garden bed. I read that pulling it is problematic as it is really tough to pull it up entirely. I already can't wait to spray it out. I will likely use Tzone as I have it on hand. Will have to get a few mows in prior.

I also have a TON of worm castings. They are also driving me crazy. I don't have a reel mower with a heavy drum, what's the best way to flatten these out? Can I use a lawn roller after/before my first mow??


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Liquidstone said:


> Day 20 post seed down update.
> 
> Definitely still in the sprout and pout stage. It's so tough when you look at it daily. Nice to document with pics. The purslane pressure is stronnnng by the garden bed. I read that pulling it is problematic as it is really tough to pull it up entirely. I already can't wait to spray it out. I will likely use Tzone as I have it on hand. Will have to get a few mows in prior.
> 
> I also have a TON of worm castings. They are also driving me crazy. I don't have a reel mower with a heavy drum, what's the best way to flatten these out? Can I use a lawn roller after/before my first mow??


Are worm castings bad for the lawn or just unsightly?


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

I don't think they're bad, just ugly. Kind of a good thing really.

People have used a greensmower for their first mow so I'd imagine you could go over it with a roller after the mow to flatten them out.

Everything looks great man. Probably on the tail end of the pout stage if my chart is right. When's the first N feed going down!?


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

This is looking superb. Good work!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Patience. This is the crucial point of the reno. Once you notice the top growth kick in post pout, hit it with 0.2 lbs N/1000. Fast release N source preferable. Wait until after the first mow to decide on the worm castings, walking behind the mower will likely flatten most of them out. If they're still bad, you can certainly go over it with the roller. If you do roll, do it after the mow.


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

This looks great! We had the same seed down day and I will say that you are lightyears ahead of my reno. I really don't even see any bare areas, lawn should be dang near 100% filled in by the end of the season.


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## Mark2 (Jun 3, 2021)

I'm excited for you, this is looking great. Tzone should knock out that purslane later on no problem too.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

:thumbup: Definitely looking good! I wouldn't sweat the worm castings. Once the turf grows in a bit, you could gently sweep dried castings or drag a cocoa door mat to break them up.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Thanks for the encouragement all, the pout stage will have you going mad.

@steffen707 definitely just unsightly and brings on bumps down the road.

@lbb091919 i'm going to assess dropping some AMS here this upcoming weekend. We'll see.

@JerseyGreens Appreciate it!

@OnTheLawn the whole Patience thing is harder than it sounds!! Thanks man. I hope your Reno's are going well.

@jskierko You'd be in the same position or better without that heavy washout you experienced. I hope you're right about good fill in. I still have one problem spot that was staying too wet for the first ~10 days. I'll show updates on that problem spot as well.

@Mark2 Thanks Mark. Rooting for your Reno over there as well!

@Chris LI Thanks Chris. I always like your perspective. Thinking out of the box!


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## jwill (Jun 12, 2018)

Looking good! You are correct about the locust seedlings germinating. I had a bunch too, but just hand pulled them. Also, the worm castings shouldn't cause major issues. Once you start mowing and the lawn thickens up, they will become less noticeable and will flatten down.


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## Bob Loblawn (Apr 10, 2020)

Looking like great progress! It's gearing up and ready to take off soon


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## rhart (May 7, 2020)

Your turf is progressing nicely as well!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

@Bob Loblawn @rhart thanks guys. I'm hoping I'm on at least the back end of the pout.

I'm going to attempt a mow after things harden up a bit in the morning. Will blow it first, shout out to @BBLOCK . I certainly won't hit everything but will be able to bring down the areas that do need it.

Plans are to drop .25lb N/M via AMS afterward. I am also moving my water schedule to once or twice a day with the bulk being in the morning.

Lawn looked pretty good this afternoon.


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## Bob Loblawn (Apr 10, 2020)

Very nice! How's it looking under the big tree? It's hard to see from the pics, but looks good!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Bob Loblawn said:


> Very nice! How's it looking under the big tree? It's hard to see from the pics, but looks good!


Tell you what Bob, It's doing better than anywhere else in the lawn. Pretty surprising. I'll take a couple closer shots of it tomorrow. I'm impressed. I've seen comments on here with people saying that the shadier areas have to work harder to get that sunlight and it shows in my Reno thus far.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Great stuff - density is impressive!

What type of mower will you be using on this beauty?

Granular or liquid AMS?


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Thanks man. It can't ever come in fast enough. I'd love to get a reel mower on this but that is at the earliest next spring. Need to get in touch with some golf courses around the area and get some ideas.

I'll be going with granular AMS through the fall and will be spraying come spring time. I'm itching to hit it!


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Liquidstone said:


> Will blow it first, shout out to @BBLOCK . I certainly won't hit everything but will be able to bring down the areas that do need it.


Wish I blew mine before I did it. HOLY COW, didn't realize my oak trees dropped that many acorns.
I mowed every inch of mine, I had little 2" blades scattered all over. I'm sure it wasn't needed on a lot of the lawn, but don't want any of those getting to 5" before the rest gets to 1.5-2".


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

steffen707 said:


> Liquidstone said:
> 
> 
> > Will blow it first, shout out to @BBLOCK . I certainly won't hit everything but will be able to bring down the areas that do need it.
> ...


Man I hear you there. I'm going to be in the same boat, some of it is at 2" but most of it won't even get hit.


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## Bob Loblawn (Apr 10, 2020)

Liquidstone said:


> Bob Loblawn said:
> 
> 
> > Very nice! How's it looking under the big tree? It's hard to see from the pics, but looks good!
> ...


That's great to hear. Same here - the shadier areas seemed to pop first.


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## Bob Loblawn (Apr 10, 2020)

How are things looking??


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Things are improving albeit slowly. I was away on work for 8 days and coming back it has definitely thickened up but the salad bar has also arrived on the side of the house.

I pulled a full 5 gallon bucket of mostly purslane yesterday. I backed off a bit on watering last week and I backed off too much I believe. Growth suffered a bit because of it in the spots that are reaching hard for top growth.

Mowed yesterday as well and then dropped .25lbs N/M of AMS. The front is filling in much better than the side. Excited for a drop in temp for the next 10 days.


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## BilldozerVT (Sep 17, 2021)

Coming along great! When is the first frost usually in Denver?


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## Bob Loblawn (Apr 10, 2020)

Looking really good! The good news is that most weeds that exist in the reno will certainly be treatable next spring and the KBG will spread right over those areas.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

@BilldozerVT first frost is generally around 10/5 so I'm certainly hoping for it to be pushed back this year. It's definitely been hot this summer.

@Bob Loblawn i think you're right about not treating until spring. I'll get my tenacity app in but I don't think I'll put a three way on it this fall. Waiting for some things to mature before hand pulling most of those broadleafs. The purslane comes out pretty easy once it matures a bit but I'm still worried that it is throwing seed… ready for that KBG to choke things out!


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## Lust4Lawn (Aug 4, 2020)

I wouldn't worry too much about the weeds as long as they are not grassy. When I did my Bluebank reno I got my second tenacity app in without NIS during the fall and cleaned up the weeds in the spring.

In the spring I got my prodiamine (5g/K for 3 months) down in the early spring and did a broadcast with Speedzone a bit later and everything looked great in no time.


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

Lust4Lawn said:


> In the spring I got my prodiamine (5g/K for 3 months) down in the early spring and did a broadcast with Speedzone a bit later and everything looked great in no time.


^This, +1


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

I was wondering how things were looking. I can definitely see the color difference and the coverage is looking great man. You should be proud.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Looks great... +1 on the broadleaf.. Easy to deal with in the spring... Your next tenacity app might help a bit too... Make the new lawn look like hell for a few weeks.. I am dealing with that now... Sucks but is the right move..


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Liquidstone said:


> ready for that KBG to choke things out!


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Lust4Lawn said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about the weeds as long as they are not grassy. When I did my Bluebank reno I got my second tenacity app in without NIS during the fall and cleaned up the weeds in the spring.
> 
> In the spring I got my prodiamine (5g/K for 3 months) down in the early spring and did a broadcast with Speedzone a bit later and everything looked great in no time.


 @jskierko

Thanks guys. Were you both able to get a prodiamine app down in the fall or did you have to wait until spring?

@lbb091919 @Stuofsci02 Thank you both. I'm looking forward to that tenacity app hurting the purslane and if it does so with others that'll be icing on the cake. The purslane isn't as well rooted as most the other broadleafs but just takes up so much space with it's spreading.

@steffen707 haha, you crack me up man!


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## Lust4Lawn (Aug 4, 2020)

I was not able to get Prodiamine down during the fall of my reno. I waited until spring since I didn't have enough DAG before the soil temperature crossed the threshold.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Liquidstone said:


> Lust4Lawn said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't worry too much about the weeds as long as they are not grassy. When I did my Bluebank reno I got my second tenacity app in without NIS during the fall and cleaned up the weeds in the spring.
> ...


=) I'm going to apply tenacity and .25lbn/k soon. I'm not even thinking about prodiamine on the reno, I'll do it in spring (i've only sprayed prodiamine once and that was this fall to the non-reno area, it just scares me to possibly kill all my grass babies).


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

I did not get prodiamine down in the fall after my reno. I probably could have, but my weed pressure was very low last year. I did have some Poa A in the spring, but nothing that wasn't easily hand pulled. If you hit your 60 day mark and have a chance to put it down though I would recommend it just for added protection. As I added additional seed to my reno this year on 9/1 I likely won't be able to get anything down again so I will just tackle whatever emerges in the spring.


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

After 60 DAG, I also recommend a 3 month rate of prodiamine. There were a lot people freaking out over poa a outbreaks last spring.

For baby poa a that hasn't over-wintered, I believe you can do significant damage or kill it with a few low rate apps of tenacity (2 oz / acre). If you wait until spring it will take more apps. Of course hand pulling is always preferred if possible.

I applied those products in late October / early November with no ill effects on the kbg. But earlier is better and all depends on your climate.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Question for the veterans who have gone through renovations before... I'd like to get down a treatment of Tenacity, I'm 40 days post germination today. I've mowed a handful of times but there are spots that I still haven't even touched yet @ 1". Am I pushing this tenacity app too early? Should I hold off until I'm able to mow at least 90+% of it? I've probably mowed closer to 60% @ that 1" height.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Liquidstone said:


> Question for the veterans who have gone through renovations before... I'd like to get down a treatment of Tenacity, I'm 40 days post germination today. I've mowed a handful of times but there are spots that I still haven't even touched yet @ 1". Am I pushing this tenacity app too early? Should I hold off until I'm able to mow at least 90+% of it? I've probably mowed closer to 60% @ that 1" height.


I think you can do the app as early as day 28 without issue. I did my whole reno at about day 34 and did everything (strong and weak areas) and had no issue.. Younger grass bleached more, but no long term effect.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Stuofsci02 said:


> Liquidstone said:
> 
> 
> > Question for the veterans who have gone through renovations before... I'd like to get down a treatment of Tenacity, I'm 40 days post germination today. I've mowed a handful of times but there are spots that I still haven't even touched yet @ 1". Am I pushing this tenacity app too early? Should I hold off until I'm able to mow at least 90+% of it? I've probably mowed closer to 60% @ that 1" height.
> ...


Thank You Sir. I think it'll help with the salad bar i've got going on. Been pulling grassy weeds as well as quite a few broadleafs and purslane and there is still a ton more in my side yard - i'd like to see them at least struggling.


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## Lust4Lawn (Aug 4, 2020)

When I did my Bluebank reno, I sprayed tenacity at the 4oz/A rate without NIS at 45 DAG. I had some areas that I added seed so they were probably closer to 32 DAG. I didn't see any bleaching the existing grass and very little effect on existing weeds. Especially weeds with tough leaves like purslane and spurge. I hand pulled some and waited until spring and hit it all with a blanket of Speedzone and it was all gone.


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

Exactly what @Lust4Lawn said. I am not even going to do a 2nd tenacity app on this reno. What control I get from Tenacity is little, if any. I have a good amount of spurge, purslane, nutsedge, and some other broadleafs. I have just been going around with a bucket each evening and hand pulling. Once the grass hardens off a bit I may treat the nutsedge this fall as hand pulling isn't a good option since it regrows from tubers. I have, however, been pulling them with the mindset that more mature sedge is competing with the grass for nutrients. Come spring time, get a pre-emergent down, hit it with a 3-way herbicide and you should be golden.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Not sure why I feel like tenacity may have an affect on some of these other invaders, I've read many times that it won't and you guys both just confirmed it! Appreciate the comments guys thanks. At least that tenacity will light up some undesirable grassy weeds I may be missing. Appreciate it!


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## Lust4Lawn (Aug 4, 2020)

Without the NIS I don't think tenacity will have any effect as a post-emergent and there are better chemicals for that purpose in most cases.


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## steffen707 (Apr 9, 2021)

Stuofsci02 said:


> Liquidstone said:
> 
> 
> > Question for the veterans who have gone through renovations before... I'd like to get down a treatment of Tenacity, I'm 40 days post germination today. I've mowed a handful of times but there are spots that I still haven't even touched yet @ 1". Am I pushing this tenacity app too early? Should I hold off until I'm able to mow at least 90+% of it? I've probably mowed closer to 60% @ that 1" height.
> ...


i sprayed my whole reno at 28DAG as well, short grass or grass i mowed 4 times. only a few spots appeared to turn white-ish, but almost all the weeds have turned white! suck it weeds! Anybody know if I should apply another dose at 42DAG or 56DAG or just wait for spring?

EDIT: Sounds like most other people would recommend not doing a 3rd app of Tenacity. What positive effects i've gotten from app 2 should help some, and I should just hit it in spring time?


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

steffen707 said:


> Stuofsci02 said:
> 
> 
> > Liquidstone said:
> ...


As long as you don't go over your maximum yearly limit you ought to be fine with a third app. I have heard that you continually lose effectiveness with each additional app post seeding.


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Got a mow in this weekend and also dropped .25lb N/M via AMS. My weeds are starting to slowly get choked out which is nice to see. I've already pulled about 4 five gallon buckets worth. I'm out of town for business this week and plan to drop .5lb N/M when I get back this weekend along with my first tenacity app post seeding. A few pics to show progress.


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

Very nice! How's it looking?


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## Liquidstone (Mar 31, 2021)

Hey @Wile. Things are looking decent. I've got pretty good coverage moving into winter I feel like. It could always be better!! Here's some updated pics from a couple days ago. I was finally able to edge and that felt really good to get done.

My last Fert application was 10/15 at .25lbs N/M. I may drop another .25 later this week as temps look to be at highs of low 70s.

I've noticed that even though temps have been relatively nice, that I just don't get the sun I'd like being west and North Facing. Hope your overseed is treating you well!


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

Wow, the density is looking great! Still awesome color for the "lack" of sunlight. I'm in the same boat. The grass is growing really slow and we just started getting cool air temps, but ground temps have dropped the last month a lot. The late dollar spot damage hasn't filled back in, but I'm not too worried about it though.


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