# which fast acting N are you applyin on your new lawn/reno?



## jackallis

tyring to figure what to buy for fast release.


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## MJR12284

Urea 46-0-0


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## Robs92k

I have high ph, so I use AMS. I have a few small Reno patches and they're reacting well.


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## rhart

MJR12284 said:


> Urea 46-0-0


X2


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## jackallis

rhart said:


> MJR12284 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Urea 46-0-0
> 
> 
> 
> X2
Click to expand...




MJR12284 said:


> Urea 46-0-0


do you spray or spread?


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## MJR12284

Dissolve and spray.


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## Lawn Whisperer

For urea I prefer to to spray at .25#N/M or less. I'll spread .75# to 1#N/M of urea with a spreader. Anything in between I'll use a handheld spreader.



Robs92k said:


> I have high ph, so I use AMS. I have a few small Reno patches and they're reacting well.


+1 for high pH soil.


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## lawn-wolverine

I will use Scotts Starter Fertilizer at 75% rate, and then again (same) in 3 weeks. 
I will use Milorganite at regular strength and then some Scotts Turf Builder in 9 weeks.
That is significant N, and I do not want to neglect root/rhizome growth, which the P will address.
There IS such thing as too much of a good thing.


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## jackallis

lawn-wolverine said:


> I will use Scotts Starter Fertilizer at 75% rate, and then again (same) in 3 weeks.
> I will use Milorganite at regular strength and then some Scotts Turf Builder in 9 weeks.
> That is significant N, and I do not want to neglect root/rhizome growth, which the P will address.
> There IS such thing as too much of a good thing.


do you use starter at seed down? if you do, is this the second application in 3 weeks?
when do you use milo. 
trying to get a specific timeline.


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## Johnnyv12

Where do you guys get your urea fert from and any specific brands you can share. Having a hard time finding it in CT.


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## Lawn Whisperer

Johnnyv12 said:


> Where do you guys get your urea fert from and any specific brands you can share. Having a hard time finding it in CT.


Local nurseries, Site One, or nearby coop. No specific brands. 
Have you searched or tried posting in your local home town page?
https://thelawnforum.com/search.php?keywords=Urea&t=4267&sf=msgonly


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## spaceman_spiff

Johnnyv12 said:


> Where do you guys get your urea fert from and any specific brands you can share. Having a hard time finding it in CT.


Home Depot has 46-0-0 available for shipping:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sunshine-Harvest-40-lbs-Box-Urea-Fertilizer-UGF-40/316885117

Picture says it's 18-46-0, but it's not. Description and questions say 46-0-0 below, and I just received mine this week and it's indeed 46-0-0.


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## lawn-wolverine

jackallis said:


> lawn-wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will use Scotts Starter Fertilizer at 75% rate, and then again (same) in 3 weeks.
> I will use Milorganite at regular strength and then some Scotts Turf Builder in 9 weeks.
> That is significant N, and I do not want to neglect root/rhizome growth, which the P will address.
> There IS such thing as too much of a good thing.
> 
> 
> 
> do you use starter at seed down? if you do, is this the second application in 3 weeks?
> when do you use milo.
> trying to get a specific timeline.
Click to expand...

No no. I am mostly OVERSEEDING KBG on KBG (into thin areas especially and wanting to improve existing)…I wait until I see seedlings (don't want existing to be too encouraged)then pop it with Starter Fertilizer. First feed.
I will use Milo about two weeks after seeing seedlings….then as weather gets cooler, go to full Scotts Turf Builder (about what?…27-0-3)

Addendum: where I have done patchwork, I mix sand/potting soil, with 0-6-0 bone meal mixed into the 50/50 soil mix, so it is already getting supplemental P for root.


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## JML

Johnnyv12 said:


> Where do you guys get your urea fert from and any specific brands you can share. Having a hard time finding it in CT.


Agriventures Agway in Danbury, New Milford, and Torrington. $20/50lbs. Call the store to check inventory.


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## Rucraz2

Urea. Local co-op $18 50#


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## jha4aamu

lawn-wolverine said:


> jackallis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lawn-wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will use Scotts Starter Fertilizer at 75% rate, and then again (same) in 3 weeks.
> I will use Milorganite at regular strength and then some Scotts Turf Builder in 9 weeks.
> That is significant N, and I do not want to neglect root/rhizome growth, which the P will address.
> There IS such thing as too much of a good thing.
> 
> 
> 
> do you use starter at seed down? if you do, is this the second application in 3 weeks?
> when do you use milo.
> trying to get a specific timeline.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No no. I am mostly OVERSEEDING KBG on KBG (into thin areas especially and wanting to improve existing)…I wait until I see seedlings (don't want existing to be too encouraged)then pop it with Starter Fertilizer. First feed.
> I will use Milo about two weeks after seeing seedlings….then as weather gets cooler, go to full Scotts Turf Builder (about what?…27-0-3)
> 
> Addendum: where I have done patchwork, I mix sand/potting soil, with 0-6-0 bone meal mixed into the 50/50 soil mix, so it is already getting supplemental P for root.
Click to expand...

How big are the spots? You will probably have better results and less work if you used ams or urea to let the existing kbg spread instead of dropping seed


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## lawn-wolverine

Thanks. I understand. And I remain unimpressed by KBG to spread significantly and with the kind of speed for my "tolerance/patience." Much of my background and experience comes from handling zoysia. Zoysia is not really considered a fast-filling grass (spreads by rhizomes only; Meyer is sterile), but in a race, I would liken zoysia to a greyhound and KBG to a sloth.
Yes, I will appreciate e v e n t u a l fill-in by the KBG, but meanwhile, SEED is goin' DOWN ! Couple that by about 5 hours of direct sun and the KBG does "okay" but speckled shade further slows it.


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## 7824

I use 16-0-0 100% stabilized urea from SiteOne. $19 for 50lbs.


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## jha4aamu

lawn-wolverine said:


> Thanks. I understand. And I remain unimpressed by KBG to spread significantly and with the kind of speed for my "tolerance/patience." Much of my background and experience comes from handling zoysia. Zoysia is not really considered a fast-filling grass (spreads by rhizomes only; Meyer is sterile), but in a race, I would liken zoysia to a greyhound and KBG to a sloth.
> Yes, I will appreciate e v e n t u a l fill-in by the KBG, but meanwhile, SEED is goin' DOWN ! Couple that by about 5 hours of direct sun and the KBG does "okay" but speckled shade further slows it.


I don't think you can fully appreciate kbg spreading ability using milo and scotts turf builder. Weekly ams or urea apps and your experience is likely drastically different.


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## robjak

I would agree with jha4aamu. My *** spreads very quickly.


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## lawn-wolverine

jha4aamu said:


> lawn-wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I understand. And I remain unimpressed by KBG to spread significantly and with the kind of speed for my "tolerance/patience." Much of my background and experience comes from handling zoysia. Zoysia is not really considered a fast-filling grass (spreads by rhizomes only; Meyer is sterile), but in a race, I would liken zoysia to a greyhound and KBG to a sloth.
> Yes, I will appreciate e v e n t u a l fill-in by the KBG, but meanwhile, SEED is goin' DOWN ! Couple that by about 5 hours of direct sun and the KBG does "okay" but speckled shade further slows it.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you can fully appreciate kbg spreading ability using milo and scotts turf builder. Weekly ams or urea apps and your experience is likely drastically different.
Click to expand...

Fair point ! I also think that my significant shade slows my (a)top growth, and (b) rhizome growth/i.e. spread speed.


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## TheCutShop

I have hours of shade a day as well but .5# or more of N a week will change your game. I use def fluid in a back pack sprayer.


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## lawn-wolverine

TheCutShop said:


> I have hours of shade a day as well but .5# or more of N a week will change your game. I use def fluid in a back pack sprayer.


Thanks ! Yea, you guys have convinced me that I can easily push my N much more than I have in the past.👍


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## robjak

My *** is full sun though.


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## Don_Julio

I just did a lawn Reno and put down seed yesterday. Do I need to put down Urea? Or can I just put down a regular fertilizer? And when 30 days later after the starter fert?


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## robjak

What was the NPK of the starter that you used and how much?

from: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16808

14 days after germination (DAG) - Apply a fast nitrogen source (eg. urea, AMS) at a low rate (0.2lb of N/ksqft).


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## jackallis

TheCutShop said:


> I have hours of shade a day as well but .5# or more of N a week will change your game. I use def fluid in a back pack sprayer.


this on new seedlings?


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## jackallis

learningeveryday said:


> I use 16-0-0 100% stabilized urea from SiteOne. $19 for 50lbs.


got link to this? can't find it at the site. will be good to know what it looks like.


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## 7824

It's only available in a few states, Maryland being one of them.

https://www.siteone.com/en/510456-basic-nutrition-fertilizer-16-0-0-100-stabilized-nitrogen-50/p/425542


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## lawn-wolverine

jackallis said:


> TheCutShop said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have hours of shade a day as well but .5# or more of N a week will change your game. I use def fluid in a back pack sprayer.
> 
> 
> 
> this on new seedlings?
Click to expand...

Yea, I would be concerned about those tender seedlings getting burned. I'm going with first fertilizer application of Starter Fertilizer. IMHO, Plenty of time to inundate with higher N.


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## bernstem

lawn-wolverine said:


> Fair point ! I also think that my significant shade slows my (a)top growth, and (b) rhizome growth/i.e. spread speed.


KBG won't spread fast in heavy shade. Neither will Zoysia for that matter. Spoon feeding fast release Nitrogen will help, but if you have less than 4-6 hours of sunlight per day, you won't see bluegrass shine.


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## lawn-wolverine

bernstem said:


> lawn-wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fair point ! I also think that my significant shade slows my (a)top growth, and (b) rhizome growth/i.e. spread speed.
> 
> 
> 
> KBG won't spread fast in heavy shade. Neither will Zoysia for that matter. Spoon feeding fast release Nitrogen will help, but if you have less than 4-6 hours of sunlight per day, you won't see bluegrass shine.
Click to expand...

Yes, thanks. I think I have about 5.5 hours of sunlight for the front yard for that 'Midnight' and 'Bewitched' combo.


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## Don_Julio

:evil:


robjak said:


> What was the NPK of the starter that you used and how much?
> 
> from: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16808
> 
> 14 days after germination (DAG) - Apply a fast nitrogen source (eg. urea, AMS) at a low rate (0.2lb of N/ksqft).


18-26-6 full rate for 1k Sqft. Threw down 4lbs.

Applied yesterday. What should be my next step? Full reno here.


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## lawn-wolverine

Expected a bit more from my 'Midnight', 'Bewitched', and some 'Skye' overseed.
This is at 14 days.


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## lawn-wolverine

Better picture of it. "Spotty." That fescue there is tenacious. Not sure the KBG will ever punch it out of there.
Now due for some "significant" N. I wanna give it some Scotts Starter Fertilizer first, as I know it needs some P.


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## simplesimon

I plan on spoon feeding new grass per the guides. At 0.2lbN/ksqft is it as simple as dissolving 1/2 a pound of urea a gallon of water in my pump sprayer per ksqft?


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## jha4aamu

simplesimon said:


> I plan on spoon feeding new grass per the guides. At 0.2lbN/ksqft is it as simple as dissolving 1/2 a pound of urea a gallon of water in my pump sprayer per ksqft?


Yes. You would actually be getting .23lb of N/k with 1/2lb of urea per K, but that difference is negligible.


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## Big Boy Stan

Is Scotts starter fertilizer 100% fast N?


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## lawn-wolverine

Big Boy Stan said:


> Is Scotts starter fertilizer 100% fast N?


The answer to that is "No." 
Two of the reasons that it is called/designated as "Starter Fertilizer" is (a)higher to much higher P than other fertilizer mixes; and (b)Scotts would prefer that you not burn 🔥 up your you g seedlings.
See if you can check their label.


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## Mdjamesd

learningeveryday said:


> It's only available in a few states, Maryland being one of them.
> 
> https://www.siteone.com/en/510456-basic-nutrition-fertilizer-16-0-0-100-stabilized-nitrogen-50/p/425542


Who is your salesperson/account? Regular price at siteone says $36.77?!


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## 7824

Regular price here is $23.83, with my standard account it's $18.xx.


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## Don_Julio

spaceman_spiff said:



> Johnnyv12 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you guys get your urea fert from and any specific brands you can share. Having a hard time finding it in CT.
> 
> 
> 
> Home Depot has 46-0-0 available for shipping:
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sunshine-Harvest-40-lbs-Box-Urea-Fertilizer-UGF-40/316885117
> 
> Picture says it's 18-46-0, but it's not. Description and questions say 46-0-0 below, and I just received mine this week and it's indeed 46-0-0.
Click to expand...

Will one box be enough for 1k sqft of a lawn Reno? Only need 0.2 of N correct? How many weeks will I need to spoon feed after my Initial starter fert app??


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## robjak

Not sure what a box is? But spoon feeding is usually small amounts.

from: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16808

14 days after germination (DAG) - Apply a fast nitrogen source (eg. urea, AMS) at a low rate (0.2lb of N/ksqft). (Since you started with starter you should skip this). 
28 DAG - another spoon feeding of nitrogen and maybe some milo. (since you started with starter fert there is no reason to use milo.)
45 days - more nitrogen as needed. Keep using a fast nitrogen source.

Might be a good idea to start spoon feeding Urea in the spring aslo. New grass is hungry grass. It is the only time you should fert in early spring.


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## JDgreen18

I know this is asking for fast acting N for reno but I have gotten great results so far with XGRN 8 1 8...3 pounds/m is .24 of N every week I just did my third app. It's easy to spread and the new grass has responded very well. My plan is to do one more app then switch to urea...
I did use a starter fert at seed down.


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## uts

JDgreen18 said:


> I know this is asking for fast acting N for reno but I have gotten great results so far with XGRN 8 1 8...3 pounds/m is .24 of N every week I just did my third app. It's easy to spread and the new grass has responded very well. My plan is to do one more app then switch to urea...
> I did use a starter fert at seed down.


If I remember correctly 75% or so of XGRN is fast release ammonium sulphate so it makes sense for the great response


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## LawnDetail

JDgreen18 said:


> I know this is asking for fast acting N for reno but I have gotten great results so far with XGRN 8 1 8...3 pounds/m is .24 of N every week I just did my third app. It's easy to spread and the new grass has responded very well. My plan is to do one more app then switch to urea...
> I did use a starter fert at seed down.


Oh how I miss XGRN. I used up my last bit of it this season. Was one of my favorites, still looking for a replacement.


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## Rolling Hills

Where are people finding urea at a decent price online? Everywhere I look it's minimum $50 for a 50lb bag. A lot of sites have a low base cost but extremely high shipping costs.

I found this which seems to be the best deal I could find: https://www.domyown.com/the-andersons-hcu-44-humic-coated-urea-p-23433.html


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## simplesimon

Rolling Hills said:


> Where are people finding urea at a decent price online? Everywhere I look it's minimum $50 for a 50lb bag. A lot of sites have a low base cost but extremely high shipping costs.
> 
> I found this which seems to be the best deal I could find: https://www.domyown.com/the-andersons-hcu-44-humic-coated-urea-p-23433.html


Shipping 50lbs of anything will cost a lot...where in NE are you? There are some recommendations in the MA hometown forum if you're willing to drive.


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## jha4aamu

Rolling Hills said:


> Where are people finding urea at a decent price online? Everywhere I look it's minimum $50 for a 50lb bag. A lot of sites have a low base cost but extremely high shipping costs.
> 
> I found this which seems to be the best deal I could find: https://www.domyown.com/the-andersons-hcu-44-humic-coated-urea-p-23433.html


I wouldnt buy urea online for the reasons you noted. Farm and feed stores, siteone, co-ops are good local sources for better priced urea


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## Glen_Cove_5511

For spoon feeding, is dissolving urea in water and spraying acceptable?


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## MJR12284

Glen_Cove_5511 said:


> For spoon feeding, is dissolving urea in water and spraying acceptable?


Yes absolutely. Many people do this.


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## SNOWBOB11

Glen_Cove_5511 said:


> For spoon feeding, is dissolving urea in water and spraying acceptable?


Just make sure to irrigate it in afterwards if on a new grass. The fertilizer sitting on the leaf of a young lawn can cause problems if not watered in.


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## Rolling Hills

Question about the math on spoon feeding: So the rec for the first application is .25lb N/1k sqft. Is that .25lb of product or .25lb of actual N? If we're talking about a 46-0-0 ratio, that's 46% N and the rest inert filler. So would I be applying .25lb or .55lb as the .55lb contains .25lb of N if we're sticking to the blend ratio being 46% N?


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## simplesimon

Rolling Hills said:


> Question about the math on spoon feeding: So the rec for the first application is .25lb N/1k sqft. Is that .25lb of product or .25lb of actual N? If we're talking about a 46-0-0 ratio, that's 46% N and the rest inert filler. So would I be applying .25lb or .55lb as the .55lb contains .25lb of N if we're sticking to the blend ratio being 46% N?


0.25lb of actual N since different fertilizers have different concentrations.


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## bernstem

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Glen_Cove_5511 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For spoon feeding, is dissolving urea in water and spraying acceptable?
> 
> 
> 
> Just make sure to irrigate it in afterwards if on a new grass. The fertilizer sitting on the leaf of a young lawn can cause problems if not watered in.
Click to expand...

I definitely recommend spraying Nitrogen when applying at low doses. For new seedlings water it in. You will get more even coverage and a little bit of foliar feeding as well.


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## Glen_Cove_5511

All... thanks for the replies related to my question about dissolving urea and spraying.


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## Cdub5_

lawn-wolverine said:


> Expected a bit more from my 'Midnight', 'Bewitched', and some 'Skye' overseed.
> This is at 14 days.


Wow! That's amazing germination and coverage in that amount of time. Mine looks nothing close to that lol


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## lawn-wolverine

Cdub5_ said:


> lawn-wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Expected a bit more from my 'Midnight', 'Bewitched', and some 'Skye' overseed.
> This is at 14 days.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow! That's amazing germination and coverage in that amount of time. Mine looks nothing close to that lol
Click to expand...

🤣 Ahhh, well, remember, mine was an "overseed" (not seed-down, bare soil).👍


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## Dtree

LawnDetail said:


> JDgreen18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know this is asking for fast acting N for reno but I have gotten great results so far with XGRN 8 1 8...3 pounds/m is .24 of N every week I just did my third app. It's easy to spread and the new grass has responded very well. My plan is to do one more app then switch to urea...
> I did use a starter fert at seed down.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh how I miss XGRN. I used up my last bit of it this season. Was one of my favorites, still looking for a replacement.
Click to expand...

Try Harrell's 7-0-29 with Anuvia GreenTRX it's good stuff.


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## whitetrash paradise

Dtree said:


> LawnDetail said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JDgreen18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know this is asking for fast acting N for reno but I have gotten great results so far with XGRN 8 1 8...3 pounds/m is .24 of N every week I just did my third app. It's easy to spread and the new grass has responded very well. My plan is to do one more app then switch to urea...
> I did use a starter fert at seed down.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh how I miss XGRN. I used up my last bit of it this season. Was one of my favorites, still looking for a replacement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try Harrell's 7-0-29 with Anuvia GreenTRX.
Click to expand...

Got a bag of the Anuvia GreenTRX 16-1-2. Done 2 light apps so far. The grass that isn't struggling is doing well and dark green.


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## Cdub5_

lawn-wolverine said:


> Cdub5_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lawn-wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Expected a bit more from my 'Midnight', 'Bewitched', and some 'Skye' overseed.
> This is at 14 days.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow! That's amazing germination and coverage in that amount of time. Mine looks nothing close to that lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 🤣 Ahhh, well, remember, mine was an "overseed" (not seed-down, bare soil).👍
Click to expand...

I see, makes sense now haha. Looks great though!


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## lawn-wolverine

Cdub5_ said:


> lawn-wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cdub5_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow! That's amazing germination and coverage in that amount of time. Mine looks nothing close to that lol
> 
> 
> 
> 🤣 Ahhh, well, remember, mine was an "overseed" (not seed-down, bare soil).👍
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see, makes sense now haha. Looks great though!
Click to expand...

I was inspired by your backyard shots with pool and dark green KBG. Remind me of the variety that you used…
I have mostly sand in this Michigan yard, doing KBG blend. Then the exact opposite in our Virginia home with hard pan red clay, growing zoysia. I find my zoysia more rewarding, less frustrating. It was a back-buster planting, but a lot less "fussy." No washout, no birds feeding. Once those little plugs are "in" they are there to stay. S L O W to establish. I get no disease, no insect damage. I like, no, love the monoculture look.
Meanwhile, I now realize that on this Michigan KBG, with previously established fine fescue, ryegrass and bluegrass mess, I am doomed to look spotty and I un-uniform unless I do a complete reno.🙁


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## jackallis

bernstem said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glen_Cove_5511 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For spoon feeding, is dissolving urea in water and spraying acceptable?
> 
> 
> 
> Just make sure to irrigate it in afterwards if on a new grass. The fertilizer sitting on the leaf of a young lawn can cause problems if not watered in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I definitely recommend spraying Nitrogen when applying at low doses. For new seedlings water it in. You will get more even coverage and a little bit of foliar feeding as well.
Click to expand...

what's the thought on applying N if i used lesco starter, 18-26-12, fertilizer on new lawn?
Reno guide says, 14 and 28 DAG apply N. 
i was going to spray urea 30DAG and skip 14 and 24 DAG.


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## bernstem

jackallis said:


> bernstem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just make sure to irrigate it in afterwards if on a new grass. The fertilizer sitting on the leaf of a young lawn can cause problems if not watered in.
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely recommend spraying Nitrogen when applying at low doses. For new seedlings water it in. You will get more even coverage and a little bit of foliar feeding as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what's the thought on applying N if i used lesco starter, 18-26-12, fertilizer on new lawn?
> Reno guide says, 14 and 28 DAG apply N.
> i was going to spray urea 30DAG and skip 14 and 24 DAG.
Click to expand...

I was merely commenting that spraying generally makes it easier to get even coverage with small doses assuming you have a decent sprayer technique. For spoon feeding that is advantageous as you can apply weekly at 0.2 +/-0.5 lbs/1k.

When to start spoon feeding, if you even want to spoon feed at all, is really up to you and depends on how much Nitrogen you think is still available in the soil for the grass. That depends on the specific starter you applied at seeding.


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## Cdub5_

lawn-wolverine said:


> Cdub5_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lawn-wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 🤣 Ahhh, well, remember, mine was an "overseed" (not seed-down, bare soil).👍
> 
> 
> 
> I see, makes sense now haha. Looks great though!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was inspired by your backyard shots with pool and dark green KBG. Remind me of the variety that you used…
> I have mostly sand in this Michigan yard, doing KBG blend. Then the exact opposite in our Virginia home with hard pan red clay, growing zoysia. I find my zoysia more rewarding, less frustrating. It was a back-buster planting, but a lot less "fussy." No washout, no birds feeding. Once those little plugs are "in" they are there to stay. S L O W to establish. I get no disease, no insect damage. I like, no, love the monoculture look.
> Meanwhile, I now realize that on this Michigan KBG, with previously established fine fescue, ryegrass and bluegrass mess, I am doomed to look spotty and I un-uniform unless I do a complete reno.🙁
Click to expand...

Well that sure is nice to hear, I'm glad I was able to help motivate you to try renovating your yard. In my back yard I used a hybrid bluegrass called SPF30 along with some Midnight. It sure did come out beautiful, but I learned my lesson on the importance of staying on top of my fungicide program during the summer. Now, since I did the trial run in my back yard I am now in the middle of renovating my front yard. This time though I am utilizing 4 kbg varieties: SPF30, Bluebank, Bewitched, and Blueberry. I'm right at 14 days since seed down and the yard is coming along nicely. I actually pre-germinated the seed and that has vastly increased the germination time.

After this year I will be all out of yards to renovate. I love seeing the beautiful results after putting in so much hard work, it's very satisfying. I may start renovating my neighbor's yards lol


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## lawn-wolverine

Thanks for the gracious response, Cdub5_.
Yes, the rewards of the beautiful, lush green texture is almost "addictive." I do find a clean start, fresh blank pallet to seed in MUCH more rewarding than my attempted "overseed" of an existing lawn. After a LOT of work (mainly hand-watering 3X a day), I honestly have little to show for it ( maybe improvement from a 7 to an 8). My bare spot rework on the other hand, looks more like your yard. It is a combo of 'Mazama' and 'Bewitched.' I really like it (just wish my entire front lawn looked like that !)


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## Don_Julio

robjak said:


> Not sure what a box is? But spoon feeding is usually small amounts.
> 
> from: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16808
> 
> 14 days after germination (DAG) - Apply a fast nitrogen source (eg. urea, AMS) at a low rate (0.2lb of N/ksqft). (Since you started with starter you should skip this).
> 28 DAG - another spoon feeding of nitrogen and maybe some milo. (since you started with starter fert there is no reason to use milo.)
> 45 days - more nitrogen as needed. Keep using a fast nitrogen source.
> 
> Might be a good idea to start spoon feeding Urea in the spring aslo. New grass is hungry grass. It is the only time you should fert in early spring.


Where can I get AMS or Urea that is not overly expensive? Can't find anything


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## Don_Julio

bernstem said:


> jackallis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bernstem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely recommend spraying Nitrogen when applying at low doses. For new seedlings water it in. You will get more even coverage and a little bit of foliar feeding as well.
> 
> 
> 
> what's the thought on applying N if i used lesco starter, 18-26-12, fertilizer on new lawn?
> Reno guide says, 14 and 28 DAG apply N.
> i was going to spray urea 30DAG and skip 14 and 24 DAG.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was merely commenting that spraying generally makes it easier to get even coverage with small doses assuming you have a decent sprayer technique. For spoon feeding that is advantageous as you can apply weekly at 0.2 +/-0.5 lbs/1k.
> 
> When to start spoon feeding, if you even want to spoon feed at all, is really up to you and depends on how much Nitrogen you think is still available in the soil for the grass. That depends on the specific starter you applied at seeding.
Click to expand...

I'm in the exact situation lol. I wouldn't mind spraying I just don't know where to get any Urea Or AMS. Can somebody direct to where I can buy some that is not overpriced 😩


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## jha4aamu

Don_Julio said:


> bernstem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jackallis said:
> 
> 
> 
> what's the thought on applying N if i used lesco starter, 18-26-12, fertilizer on new lawn?
> Reno guide says, 14 and 28 DAG apply N.
> i was going to spray urea 30DAG and skip 14 and 24 DAG.
> 
> 
> 
> I was merely commenting that spraying generally makes it easier to get even coverage with small doses assuming you have a decent sprayer technique. For spoon feeding that is advantageous as you can apply weekly at 0.2 +/-0.5 lbs/1k.
> 
> When to start spoon feeding, if you even want to spoon feed at all, is really up to you and depends on how much Nitrogen you think is still available in the soil for the grass. That depends on the specific starter you applied at seeding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm in the exact situation lol. I wouldn't mind spraying I just don't know where to get any Urea Or AMS. Can somebody direct to where I can buy some that is not overpriced 😩
Click to expand...

Try your local siteone, rural kings, tractor supply. Around here garden centers sometimes have it in stock


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## Rolling Hills

On the overseed guide it mentions to spoon feed .25lb N/1k for the first 2 weeks. Then up it to .5lb N/1k every 2 weeks. Does that mean wait 2 weeks between the 2nd and 3rd app or go .5lb N/1k on week 3 and then start the 2 week cycle from that point forward?


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## Harts

Rolling Hills said:


> On the overseed guide it mentions to spoon feed .25lb N/1k for the first 2 weeks. Then up it to .5lb N/1k every 2 weeks. Does that mean wait 2 weeks between the 2nd and 3rd app or go .5lb N/1k on week 3 and then start the 2 week cycle from that point forward?


Don't over think it. You can do 0.5lb on week 3 or wait until week 4.

There is no "book" when it comes to lawn care IMO. Only guidelines. Do what you think is best for your situation.


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## BigBlue

Don_Julio said:


> bernstem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jackallis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in the exact situation lol. I wouldn't mind spraying I just don't know where to get any Urea Or AMS. Can somebody direct to where I can buy some that is not overpriced 😩
> 
> 
> 
> I had good luck at a local "feed store". $25 for a 50 lb. bag of Urea.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Kstawski

Don_Julio said:


> bernstem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jackallis said:
> 
> 
> 
> what's the thought on applying N if i used lesco starter, 18-26-12, fertilizer on new lawn?
> Reno guide says, 14 and 28 DAG apply N.
> i was going to spray urea 30DAG and skip 14 and 24 DAG.
> 
> 
> 
> I was merely commenting that spraying generally makes it easier to get even coverage with small doses assuming you have a decent sprayer technique. For spoon feeding that is advantageous as you can apply weekly at 0.2 +/-0.5 lbs/1k.
> 
> When to start spoon feeding, if you even want to spoon feed at all, is really up to you and depends on how much Nitrogen you think is still available in the soil for the grass. That depends on the specific starter you applied at seeding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm in the exact situation lol. I wouldn't mind spraying I just don't know where to get any Urea Or AMS. Can somebody direct to where I can buy some that is not overpriced 😩
Click to expand...

G-Man pointed me to Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) it's 32% Urea and the rest is water. You can find it at Walmart or any auto parts store. 2.5 gallons cost me $8 at Walmart and 10ozs of DEF is .1 lb of Nitrogen


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## Rolling Hills

Harts said:


> Rolling Hills said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the overseed guide it mentions to spoon feed .25lb N/1k for the first 2 weeks. Then up it to .5lb N/1k every 2 weeks. Does that mean wait 2 weeks between the 2nd and 3rd app or go .5lb N/1k on week 3 and then start the 2 week cycle from that point forward?
> 
> 
> 
> Don't over think it. You can do 0.5lb on week 3 or wait until week 4.
> 
> There is no "book" when it comes to lawn care IMO. Only guidelines. Do what you think is best for your situation.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I have a habit of overthinking these things sometimes. I'm thinking week 3 I might add some quick release phos for root development. I didn't get a formal soil test, but I didn't really put any phos down throughout the growing season this year and it could probably use it especially with new grass establishing. Any recs on sprayable phos and at what rates?


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## Harts

@Rolling Hills I can't help you with that. I don't worry much about soil deficiencies.

This late in the season, I have always focused solely on cutting frequently and adding nitrogen weekly until vertical growth stops.

FWIW, you can start doing 0.5lb N weekly to your overseed. You don't have to start at 0.25lb.


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## Allan-00

@Harts I've always seen 0.25 lb of N weekly (~1 lb monthly).....can we use a heavier rate than this? I know you don't want to put down a bunch at once, but if it's over even applications does that change things?


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## Harts

Allan-00 said:


> @Harts I've always seen 0.25 lb of N weekly (~1 lb monthly).....can we use a heavier rate than this? I know you don't want to put down a bunch at once, but if it's over even applications does that change things?


I'm doing 0.5lb N weekly at the moment. I don't know at what point the rate becomes ineffective and a waste. But there is a tipping point.

I'm only illustrating that you CAN use a higher rate without adversely affecting your grass.

You can check out my latest journal entry to see the results from Sept 5 to 18th. Nothing but urea along with good heavy rain.


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## Allan-00

@Harts Good to know - thanks.


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## bernstem

0.5 lbs of N/week is probably overkill. In the fall, and with enough water, it won't hurt the lawn, but it may be wasting Nitrogen. The grass can only use so much. The rest gets washed away or lost to volatilization.


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## spaceman_spiff

bernstem said:


> 0.5 lbs of N/week is probably overkill. In the fall, and with enough water, it won't hurt the lawn, but it may be wasting Nitrogen. The grass can only use so much. The rest gets washed away or lost to volatilization.


The https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=753 Nitro Blitz guide (in the PS section) says you can do an aggressive approach of 0.5N/k per week.



> PS
> So if you read all of this, there is one thing I left out to not focus on it. There is a more intense form of nitrogen blitz. Instead of 1 lb/k of N per month, you apply 0.5 lb/k of fast acting N per week. Yes, that yields 2 lb of N/k a month and yes, you will be mowing. It is like the grass grows behind you as you mow. The main benefit I see to it is if you need KBG to fill large voids. In my opinion, an established mature and dense lawn doesn't need it and it is a lot of work. It's really necessary to use a fast acting nitrogen (urea/AS) and it needs to be watered. I've done it the year after a renovation and it spreads the KBG.


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## bernstem

spaceman_spiff said:


> bernstem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 0.5 lbs of N/week is probably overkill. In the fall, and with enough water, it won't hurt the lawn, but it may be wasting Nitrogen. The grass can only use so much. The rest gets washed away or lost to volatilization.
> 
> 
> 
> The https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=753 Nitro Blitz guide (in the PS section) says you can do an aggressive approach of 0.5N/k per week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS
> So if you read all of this, there is one thing I left out to not focus on it. There is a more intense form of nitrogen blitz. Instead of 1 lb/k of N per month, you apply 0.5 lb/k of fast acting N per week. Yes, that yields 2 lb of N/k a month and yes, you will be mowing. It is like the grass grows behind you as you mow. The main benefit I see to it is if you need KBG to fill large voids. In my opinion, an established mature and dense lawn doesn't need it and it is a lot of work. It's really necessary to use a fast acting nitrogen (urea/AS) and it needs to be watered. I've done it the year after a renovation and it spreads the KBG.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Sure you can. How much better it is and how much Nitrogen the plant is using is an open question. At some point, the extra Nitrogen is no longer going to the plant. Is that at 0.3? Maybe it is 0.4? Might even be 0.6. As long as the grass isn't burned, why not just keep going up?


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## Allan-00

This info helps. My main concern was with too much hurting the grass which I suspect is only an issue with too much N in one application. (and no water)

It sounds like as the applications are spread out and watered in, we can push the N until we get diminishing results. I do have some spots that I need the KBG to fill in so I will be trying out this approach. Maybe starting with 0.3 or 0.4 N weekly.


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## lawn-wolverine

As an old school dude, I am putzing along with my Scotts products in my drop spreader (I am dealing with only about 4500 sq. ft.) I am going to experiment in this next 12 months with a combination of Milorganite, Humic DG, and Scotts Green X (essentially their Turf Builder and has 5% iron). I utilized Scotts Starter fertilizer 3 weeks after "seed down" (about 2 weeks after sprouting). I have a few areas that I think I am starting to understand what you guys call "sprout and pout??" These confounding areas have sprouted to one-half inch (but thick coverage)and then have just SAT there and unmoved for maybe two weeks ! I hit it with Starter fertilizer (not wanting to burn those little suckers ! ) and they just…sit. ADMITTEDLY, it is an area of only about 3.5 hrs. of sun a day.
Other areas (this is all 'Mazama') are looking lush, and growing great. I think it is watered about the perfect not too much, but enough.

This lawn stuff is definitely a labor of love.


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## ceriano

Lawn Whisperer said:


> For urea I prefer to to spray at .25#N/M or less. I'll spread .75# to 1#N/M of urea with a spreader. Anything in between I'll use a handheld spreader.
> 
> 
> 
> Robs92k said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have high ph, so I use AMS. I have a few small Reno patches and they're reacting well.
> 
> 
> 
> +1 for high pH soil.
Click to expand...

What setting do you use on Scott's spreader? For 0.25lbs per 1000 SF


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## spaceman_spiff

ceriano said:


> Lawn Whisperer said:
> 
> 
> 
> For urea I prefer to to spray at .25#N/M or less. I'll spread .75# to 1#N/M of urea with a spreader. Anything in between I'll use a handheld spreader.
> 
> 
> 
> Robs92k said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have high ph, so I use AMS. I have a few small Reno patches and they're reacting well.
> 
> 
> 
> +1 for high pH soil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What setting do you use on Scott's spreader? For 0.25lbs per 1000 SF
Click to expand...

I have the Scott's wizz hand spreader or whatever, and I use 3 1/4. It's basically, whatever opens the hatch up enough for the largest granules to make it through and goes slow enough that I can do 2 passes, the second perpendicular to the first.

Depends on the size of your granules and how fast you walk really. I have to do a pretty good shuffle to make it all the way through without running out.


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## Pezking7p

I committed to spraying N and other chemicals last fall and spent about $300 on spray equipment.

This spring I bought 50lbs of urea from the fertilizer barn up the street…they literally shoveled it into a box, for $20 and I still have it. I'll need some more in a few weeks but if you can do it. This is the way to go.


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## Old Hickory

I went to Tractor Supply to look around and found this:

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/spectracide-spectracide-lawn-fertilizer-20-0-0-32-oz-twin-pack-hose-end-concentrate-hg-26714

It is 17% Urea and 3% AMS for a 20-0-0 liquid fert. Buy one get one. I am using it in a cocktail of sea kelp and humic.


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## g-man

That expensive. Just buy Diesel Exhaust Fluid instead. 2.5 gallon is $7.88 at Walmart. It is around 15-0-0 in fertilizer numbers.


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## ceriano

When do you stop urea application after reno? December?
Should I switch to winterizer fert after that? Something with high K?

https://www.jonathangreen.com/product/winter-survival-fall-lawn-fertilizer.html


----------



## Lawn Whisperer

spaceman_spiff said:


> ceriano said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lawn Whisperer said:
> 
> 
> 
> For urea I prefer to to spray at .25#N/M or less. I'll spread .75# to 1#N/M of urea with a spreader. Anything in between I'll use a handheld spreader.
> 
> +1 for high pH soil.
> 
> 
> 
> What setting do you use on Scott's spreader? For 0.25lbs per 1000 SF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have the Scott's wizz hand spreader or whatever, and I use 3 1/4. It's basically, whatever opens the hatch up enough for the largest granules to make it through and goes slow enough that I can do 2 passes, the second perpendicular to the first.
> 
> Depends on the size of your granules and how fast you walk really. I have to do a pretty good shuffle to make it all the way through without running out.
Click to expand...

^+1
I'll spread it with a handheld. If I have half left after going one direction, then I'll go perpendicular at the same speed. If I have 1/4 left then I'll go perpendicular double the speed. Anything less than 1/4, I'll call it good and just make a note of the amount applied minus what's left.

It's all about how fast you walk and a little on the spreader setting. If you do run out of product before going one way, then you'll have to make adjustments.


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## LawnDetail

g-man said:


> That expensive. Just buy Diesel Exhaust Fluid instead. 2.5 gallon is $7.88 at Walmart. It is around 15-0-0 in fertilizer numbers.


We use DEF in our equipment at work. One day I was wondering what was in this? Looked at the ingredients and seen the Nitrogen and thought, can this be used on the lawn……LOL. Just funny someone else brought it up.


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## g-man

It is urea and clean water. 10oz = 0.1lb of N.


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## Lawn Whisperer

learningeveryday said:


> It's only available in a few states, Maryland being one of them.
> 
> https://www.siteone.com/en/510456-basic-nutrition-fertilizer-16-0-0-100-stabilized-nitrogen-50/p/425542


I'm also in Maryland and tried the Lesco 16-0-0 Urea Nitrogen Stabilized with NBPT (N-(n-butyl) thiophosphoric triamide). I was able to spread .25 and .5 #N/M with a push spreader. I wondered what the gray stuff is in the mix. I assume it's inert material to lower the N ratio down to 16%, but would like to know what I'm putting on the lawn. Also, I read in the forum somewhere that stabilized urea is more acidic than regular urea.

@learningeveryday Do you know what the gray stuff is?

Are all forms of stabilized urea more acidic than regular urea? Or is it just the sulfur coated urea that is more acidic?


----------

