# Common Bermuda Putting Area



## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

I posted a question in the equipment section about this but I guess before I get too deep into a project I should ask: can common Bermuda be maintained at putting green height? My son is getting into golf and I have a small area that I might be able to do something with. I'd like for it to become his baby and have him learn a little about lawn care and getting something out of hard work. But if it's a no go on common I may look into reseeding the area with something that can be kept that short. Thanks for any replies.


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

A low hoc is about the only way to eliminate common. You wont have any luck with a pg consisting of common.


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## TheTurfTamer (Aug 8, 2018)

My grass is Common 419 Tif. In order to get it to maintain a cutting height of 7mm, I have a topdressing and rolling routine. I top-dress 4 times a year and roll the yard once a month with a tow behind 400lb Poly Roller. This enables me to keep on putting. This is home putting ( a little slower).7mm

At the end of the season in October , when I swap out my annuals, I do a final Core Areation with plug removal , a final topdress and a 2500lb roll. I do this at the end of the season when the grass has started going dormant.

I live in Northern Alabama, Bermuda is dormant from Late October to Late February.

This works for me. I cut at a height of 7mm year round. 
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## unclebucks06 (Apr 25, 2018)

419 is not common Bermuda.


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

Aawickham78 said:


> My grass is Common 419 Tif. In order to get it to maintain a cutting height of 7mm, I have a topdressing and rolling routine. I top-dress 4 times a year and roll the yard once a month with a tow behind 400lb Poly Roller. This enables me to keep on putting. This is home putting ( a little slower).7mm
> 
> At the end of the season in October , when I swap out my annuals, I do a final Core Areation with plug removal , a final topdress and a 2500lb roll. I do this at the end of the season when the grass has started going dormant.
> 
> ...


Wow....killing it. It all sounds good...but the inputs are very high, right?


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## TheTurfTamer (Aug 8, 2018)

unclebucks06 said:


> 419 is not common Bermuda.


I guess I am lucky, I am surrounded by sod farms. In Alabama, 419 is common.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@Aawickham78 419 is common across the Southern US, but is not Common Bermuda, which is a different cultivar.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

unclebucks06 said:


> 419 is not common Bermuda.


Agreed that confused me.
Different definition of common. If you are surrounded by Sod farms then yes 419 is a frequent or common variety used.
However common bermuda refers to bermuda that produces seeds that can be planted to make more bermuda.

419 is a sterile hybrid variety of bermuda. It also prduces seeds but the seeds are sterile and cannot grow. It can tolerate and thrive at low mowing below 0.5 inch.

Common bermuda for example the seed thats found at Home depot and Lowes does NOT tolerate low cutting. 
As a matter of fact the best way to get rid of common bermuda is to keep it cut at or below 0.5 inches. It does NOT thrive being cut that low. This is what im doing currently to get ride of my common bermuda patches.

I would consider looking into sod. Depending on the size of the area it will not be very expensive.
The only seeded variety i would use would be either Rivera or Yukon bermuda. Both of which are more suited for fairway play . 
Seeding bermuda is not easy, will require a year to establish and play, and ultimatley be more expensive in weed control, time, and establishment then sodded types. SO unless you plan to convert a huge area into a putting green I would sod.

Most people want a putting green but do not realize the time energy and equipment needed to have one.
1) i see you have a toro timemaster. You will need a greensmower about $1000
2) You will need to cut it everyday of you life
3) You will need to get a sprayer and chemicals like PGR
4) You will need to frequently topdress core aerate and roll the grass to have a nice playable surface. 
Its alot of work. and it will get tiresome real quick especially if your son isnt playing on it all the time.
I understand getting your son into lawn maintenance but thats like going from 0-60 in 2sec. He will spend more time working on the lawn then playing on it. If he is a teeneage boy that will be a good way for him to quit golf altogether.

I know its sac-religious on this site but ,depending on your skill level, an artificial putting green will save you alot of time and money and stress and did I say money?

As a side note Most putting greens in Middle Tennesee are bentgrass greens and not bermuda. They can be established by seed but That is an entire different subject and is a cool season grass.


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## Cjames1603 (Jul 25, 2018)

All advice above is solid. My 2 cents. If you are looking for a "putting" green to help your son would putting, you will not find it with Bermuda that isn't a dwarf. He roll will be much slower. That being said if you can get your 419 to 3/8" it can be a very serviceable chipping green. I have been doing that his year and I can tell you hat not only is it good for helping him with his chipping, but it has been a place that family and friends have enjoyed for hours at a time. Next year I'm going the next step and going to sprig in Sunday-ultra dwarf, but tending to the one I had for a year before investing was a good thing for me and I think it would be for you too. Tely is dead on about maintenance. 6 days a week cuts (which don't take but a few mins) irrigation, top dressing especially to start with are par for the course. I say cut it as low as you can, chip on it, research, and chip on it. If your family enjoys it as much as we do then you will take the next step. If not, no worries the Bermuda will go right back to where it was before the project. Good luck!!


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## Cjames1603 (Jul 25, 2018)

One last thing that I forgot to add is that depending on your mower the constant hoc adjustments between lawn and green could be a "reel" pain in the rump. So if a greensmower comes around on the cheap it would be a solid investment especially if you find one that is good enough to mow a small area like a green only.


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## raldridge2315 (Jul 1, 2017)

The comments about mowing low as a way to rid common from a lawn may not be wholly true. I agree that this will work when it has to compete with varieties that thrive when mowed low. But with intense input and maintenance, it would be possible to use common as a putting surface if that is the only species present. Note, I said INTENSE! Here is a quote from "The Lawn Book" by Dr. Louis N Wise, Professor of Agronomy, and Dean of the School of Agriculture, Mississippi State University, 1961.

"Although common is rapidly being replaced by special turf varieties, if properly fertilized and managed it makes a good quality turf. In fact, it is still being used on the putting greens of some very fine golf courses."

So, remember that this was written in 1961. The first dwarf bermuda was Tifgreen, but it had only been on the market since 1956 and not yet widely used when this was written. Continuing to quote Dr. Wise, "Tifgreen is an F1 hybrid obtained by crossing a special selection of common bermuda from the Charlotte Country Club (North Carolina) with the same fine-leaved African bermuda already mentioned as a parent of Tiffine." [my underscore] I do wonder how low the greens were cut back then. @viva_oldtrafford any thoughts on that?

The comments about high maintenance for a home putting green are absolutely true. To do this, one will need to be prepared the spend much more time in maintenance, than putting.


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## erdons (Apr 3, 2018)

I can say this, I started a small 250-300 sq ft area in my backyard with the intent of turning it into a putting green with tifgreen hybrid, granted I started it with sprigs so it might have lengthened the process, so far 1 season in I haven't even thought about putting the ball, realistically yes you will need to mow daily, I mow every 3 days and by the 3rd day it's grown way too much to putt. Mowing 300ft is doable every day, not sure how doable mowing a bigger lawn daily is. I will have to try PGR next year to see if i can keep it down, overall what I'm getting at is I have the right hybrid and very favorable conditions and even so getting it puttable is going to take a couple of seasons.


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## lagerman72 (Feb 14, 2017)

I also have a jr golfer, well he's not so jr anymore and is way better than I have ever been, and have 419. We decided to have a "green" out back this year as opposed to just chipping across the yard. I started it at .125 (1/8") and when it got into the the dog days of summer moved it up a hair to .1875 (3/16"), which is where I'm currently at. I do use PGR but only have to cut it every other day/third day depending upon how it looks. Does it roll 12 on a stimpmeter, no, but does it roll nice and smooth enough for practicing, yes. I'll aerate/sand and smooth next spring but also plan on doing that to the rest of the yard as well. I also have a fringe cut in at .600 (almost 5/8") and rough beyond that at around 2.5". Here's a pic from last week.
















Good luck on yours, it's not a ton of work but is fun to have.


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## raldridge2315 (Jul 1, 2017)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqGxPcqJJGc

One heck of a lot of work.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

I appreciate all the advice. Sounds like it may be more than we can handle right now. I'm only a year into being a yard enthusiast. I may revisit it in a couple years once I've honed my skills if he is still into the game.


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## erdons (Apr 3, 2018)

TN Hawkeye said:


> I appreciate all the advice. Sounds like it may be more than we can handle right now. I'm only a year into being a yard enthusiast. I may revisit it in a couple years once I've honed my skills if he is still into the game.


Don't be scared to try although it might not be that easy with common you're likely to end up making it all look great even if you don't get it putting quality.


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## lagerman72 (Feb 14, 2017)

erdons said:


> Don't be scared to try although it might not be that easy with common you're likely to end up making it all look great even if you don't get it putting quality.


I totally second this!


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## Cjames1603 (Jul 25, 2018)

Me too man. Draw you a neat shape that u want to be a green and scalp it. It will
Grow back
If you hate it but you won't hate it. That's step 1. When I see the difference it's great. Here is day 1 of mine and then a shot a couple of weeks later. Do it!!!!!!


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

raldridge2315 said:


> The comments about mowing low as a way to rid common from a lawn may not be wholly true. I agree that this will work when it has to compete with varieties that thrive when mowed low. But with intense input and maintenance, it would be possible to use common as a putting surface if that is the only species present. Note, I said INTENSE! Here is a quote from "The Lawn Book" by Dr. Louis N Wise, Professor of Agronomy, and Dean of the School of Agriculture, Mississippi State University, 1961.
> 
> "Although common is rapidly being replaced by special turf varieties, if properly fertilized and managed it makes a good quality turf. In fact, it is still being used on the putting greens of some very fine golf courses."
> 
> ...


I would guess that they were north of the .200" range, maybe as high as .300". Far higher than the .90-.120" that you'll typically find on higher end, warms season putting greens.


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