# First home purchased - lawn needs help!



## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)

Hello everyone!
To start, thank you all for the time to read over my post and with all your future help! Ive been reading and learning and now it's time to asks my questions.

I recently purchased a home 3 weeks ago in Bethlehem, PA (08801).

The lawn, trees, and shrubs are all extremely overgrown (see pic).



I really want to get this lawn in tip top shape. I'm willing to spend the time (to an extent) and money to make sure everything is done correctly.

First off, this lawn has no built in irrigation system. Total turf surface area I would guesstimate to be between 1,000 & 1,500 sq ft. I'm measuring this weekend to get precise readings. The yard is a rectangle from the back of the house to the detached garage.

Before mowing and I snapped a few pics of the "turf" and wanted to get the boards feedback. Is this something I can work to correct or am I better off killing it all off and starting again?







It's Mid October and looking to put together a step by step list of what I should do or need to do to accomplish my lawn goals.

If you all could please give your feedback as to what the pictures look like to you and my best plan of action, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you and I look forward to learning from you all! :thumbup: :nod:


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## glenmonte (Sep 15, 2017)

You're about a month behind the best time to seed, but the warm weather has been sticking around, so I'd give it a try if you have the time and money to gamble. I would hand pull whatever big weeds, dethatch (a lot), aerate (a lot), do a heavy overseed with something that has mostly perennial rye, then fescues. You probably won't have time in he season for the Kentucky blue to germinate. I would topdress with good compost, and use the Scott's starter with pre emergent. Then I would give a good winterizer at the latest date permissible in your area (some places restrict and fertilizer November-April). Next year, focus on pre emergent and feeding in the spring and hold off on the seed for a few weeks. Then spend the late spring and summer (yes, summer) hitting the bare areas with seed/compost, a lot of water. You'll get a decent success rate before the fall when it all starts again (but earlier). Obviously get a good routine for feeding/weed/insects going next year, too.

And good luck on the house. Don't let it own you- you own it.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

Welcome!

I also have a law that is roughly 1000sqft.

My first question for you is do you plan on installing irrigation?

Judging by the looks of the last photo, I would do a complete kill and re-seed, but you've missed that boat for this year.

What is the exposure like? Mostly sunny? Any trees?


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

If it was me I'd use what's left of this year to clear and clean up the shrubs, trees and overgrowth. Next year I'd get a soil test done in April or so and see what your soil needs to give your grass the best chance to do well. Add the needed amendments through the year then do a full kill reno next August. Do some research on what type of grass you like/want. If you go with kbg, decide if you want to go with a blend of bluegrass and look at NTEP website and choose a cultivar blend that is good for your area. Look through some of the reno threads and get an idea on what needs to be done to have a successful renovation.

It's really late now and it looks like you have some other stuff to do before it's time to do the lawn. Don't rush into anything, take your time and do it right.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

I agree with Snowbob. Work on the overgrowth this fall. Your yard is small enough that sod could be an option. That can be done later. Before you do any planting (seeding would be best done next August/early September) or sodding (sodding can be done most anytime the ground is frozen), think about how you plan to water. If you want irrigation, that should be done first.


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## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)

Thanks everyone for the quick reply's!

So as mentioned before, the backyard is a rectangle shape extending from the back of the house to the detached garage. There is a large black walnut tree on the back of the lot that would cover half the yard in shade when all the leaves are on the tree. I would love to do an all KBG lawn but not sure how well that would work due to the tree shade? Maybe a 50/50 with PRG?

The shrubs and flower beds are being torn out and will all be gone by today so I will have a bare back yard except for the grass. The left side overgrowth as seen in the pic is coming out today.



Before making my opening post, I was leaning towards doing a full kill off and reno and by your suggestions above, it seems that would be my best long term goal.

Since we're in Mid October, should I spray the grass and everything in the backyard with "round up" and go ahead and kill everything before winter that way it's bare and ready to be seeded come spring?

Would there be any benefit to getting the soil test done now instead of in the spring so it gives me the winter to plan my attack?

Also, if I do the grass kill off now, I can plumb in the irrigation system before winter.

Thanks all!


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## Scubayachts (Oct 15, 2017)

On second thought, since the lawn area is so small, maybe I will just re sod. At this point it seems like the most logical way of doing this. Instead of waiting for the perfect temp and season to lay seed and nurse it to life, for just a couple hundred dollars more I can re sod the entire area.

Going on this premise, should I do a kill off now and re sod before winter or kill off and wait for spring to re sod? Also, once the grass (and weed) are completely dead, do I use a machine to rip up the old dead?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Scubayachts said:


> On second thought, since the lawn area is so small, maybe I will just re sod. At this point it seems like the most logical way of doing this. Instead of waiting for the perfect temp and season to lay seed and nurse it to life, for just a couple hundred dollars more I can re sod the entire area.
> 
> Going on this premise, should I do a kill off now and re sod before winter or kill off and wait for spring to re sod? Also, once the grass (and weed) are completely dead, do I use a machine to rip up the old dead?


I don't know anything about sod. But if you decide to grow your own grass, I strongly suggest a fall Reno rather than in spring. In that case, you would want to start your kill sometime in July (or early August at the absolute latest). I also think that you are better served by doing your soil test in the spring--and you want your soil to be free of fertilizer for the test, so that you know what is naturally there.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Some reading material on lawn establishment from Penn State:

http://plantscience.psu.edu/research/centers/turf/extension/factsheets/lawn-establishment


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

So I have bad news. You shared on key detail. The black walnut tree will limit your options. Walnut trees release a compound called juglone thru the roots that kills a lot of stuff. If has a long half life, so even if you remove the tree, it will remain in the soil for years. It is a known effect that dates back to the Romans. Google it.

I think kbg is one that survives it, but I'm not 100% sure and kbg will struggle in the shade.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

VA Tech publication on black walnut trees:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://pubs.ext.vt.edu/content/dam/pubs_ext_vt_edu/430/430-021/430-021_pdf.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjCrsjWi_bWAhUl6IMKHdK_DxIQFggmMAA&usg=AOvVaw0YIJYvFwFHhHl4pxYmWE-F

It says KBG and tall fescue can grow under them (in non stressed conditions). Directly under the tree you might try a juglone tolerant ground cover or mulch.


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## aug0211 (Sep 5, 2017)

I agree with snowbob. Especially after reading g-man's post.

I'm a novice myself, so I shouldn't even be allowed to give advice... but what I've learned so far would push me toward two things:

1. Remove the tree - the half life can't be altered, but the shade can.

2. Do your lawn/yard cleanup and focus on everything else around the house for now. Keep the yard reasonably healthy and in check. Soil test in spring with amendments as needed - then go for your KBG reno in August when everything is primed and ready to go (reduced shade, perfect soil, and a solid plan for watering - whether it's irrigstion or sprinklers you're running off hoses).

Tough to be patient. I completely understand getting the itch and wanting to pull the trigger. Maybe pull the trigger on some other things (swap the tree out for other landscaping, for example) to fill the time while you wait for the lawn.

Either way, congrats on the new home!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I like my lawn and I keep it in a nice shape, but I would never kill a tree just for a lawn. I think a big tree in the backyard is a must. My current yard has young trees since I moved into a new construction house. I miss my old house trees.


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## aug0211 (Sep 5, 2017)

g-man said:


> I like my lawn and I keep it in a nice shape, but I would never kill a tree just for a lawn. I think a big tree in the backyard is a must. My current yard has young trees since I moved into a new construction house. I miss my old house trees.


A fair point. Relocation of the tree is an option. You could remove it from a shade casting location to give it a new home in a location that creates shade on a non-turf spot.

I planted two trees this year on the side of my
home, and they will mostly shade the home and portions of the patio.

Either way, g-man brings a good point. Maybe you can move the tree for a win-win?


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## chrisben (Sep 11, 2017)

How tall is the bottom of the tree canopy of the black walnut? The one in the house I grew up in must have had a canopy 25 foot in the air, Is the grass under it always in shadow? or does each part get several hours of daylight as the sun moves across it's path?


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