# Is Doc on to something with this HUMICHAR product??



## corneliani

The way those DG particles of Humic & BioChar break down is pretty impressive, I have to admit. Could it be that Doc will be peddling a decent product this year ??  :shock: It hurts just thinking it


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## Teej

Even if it's decent, it's going to be expensive.


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## dman

Which of these type products are not expensive, no matter who is selling them?

Lawn care products is a big thing now and there is competition. All these products seem to have to same things in them. I have tried the Anderson's products and I like the DG particles. If I had a lawn bigger than mine, 10,000 sq ft, I would really be looking at cost, even though I am just trying different things.

I used Humic acid and Sea Kelp products last season and I like using them. They seem to really work well. I will be trying bio char products this season. If it works well I will make it a part of my lawn care program.

As far as cost goes, I believe folks have to decide for themselves what they want to spend. My biggest lawn care expense is water so I will be looking into how to reduce that. Having a good lawn care program will make my lawn more drought resistant. That will help so if spending more on lawn care products will help that then that is great.


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## Gilley11

This may be a good product, I don't know, but please PLEASE stay away from this doc guy. I just watched a video and this is what he said:

"Whenever I put out pre emergent, I always mix it with super juice. It helps the CEC ratios and it bonds to the soil better"

If that doesn't tell you that this guy is complete BS and just out for the sales then I've got a beach house in South Dakota to sell you.


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## dman

Gilley11 said:


> This may be a good product, I don't know, but please PLEASE stay away from this doc guy. I just watched a video and this is what he said:
> 
> "Whenever I put out pre emergent, I always mix it with super juice. It helps the CEC ratios and it bonds to the soil better"
> 
> If that doesn't tell you that this guy is complete BS and just out for the sales then I've got a beach house in South Dakota to sell you.


What did he mean by that?

All these modern day lawn products sales folks make claims about their products. The Greene County gang does the same thing.


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## Chris LI

The more and more I think about it, I get the uneasy feeling as others have mentioned, that Doc is just pitching products to find a nitch in the market. His earlier videos seemed to try to educate folks on turf maintenance, but that appears to have changed. As a cool season guy, and turf nerd in general, I was intrigued about Warm Season turf maintenance, since hearing my Cool Season gurus (professors, GC supts, etc.) refer to it as "a completely different animal". They would refer to discussions with the college interns they worked with/supervised from southern universities, which they had to re-educate in Cool Season turf science/maintenance. I decided to check him out, and got hooked on his videos for awhile. Eventually, that changed as he started pushing fertilizer products and worked his way up from small, cheap no-name spreaders and other equipment to expensive, brand new spreaders, mowers, etc. (and giving them away). Even though I started to see through his tactics, I continued to watch until he started contradicting himself in various ways (FYI - Tru-Cut/McLane, plus others).

Biochar has been produced by humans for thousands of years to amend poor soils (produced in man-made pits in the rainforest, due to poor native soil-counterintuitive, isn't it?). Several years ago 5-6+, I attended turf/landscape seminars advocating the use of it as a soil amendment. At that time, it was mainly used in beds and gardens, due to the coarseness of the particles. I purchased it (a 50/50 compost/biochar product called Pro Soil Enhancer) for my landscape crew (flower beds) at work to help with sandy soil that had been depleted of nutrients. We used it with some success, but my elderly crew leader, who advocated organics, complained of the dustiness. Go figure.

Anyway, I believe that the product he is pushing can be helpful in very poor soil conditions, but expect the cost will outweigh the benefits. If you have good soil or a good fertility program, I don't think it will be extremely helpful. Just MHO.

If your HOC is not extremely low and you tend to apply compost in the spring as a typical routine of an organic, low N/maintenance, soil based fertility program, it might be worth using your compost spreader/shovel slinger to try the Pro Soil Enhancer (or similar product with biochar), to boost a poor-mediocre soil.

I would be interested in experiences that other members have and their opinions.


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## dman

Chris LI said:


> The more and more I think about it, I get the uneasy feeling as others have mentioned, that Doc is just pitching products to find a nitch in the market. His earlier videos seemed to try to educate folks on turf maintenance, but that appears to have changed. As a cool season guy, and turf nerd in general, I was intrigued about Warm Season turf maintenance, since hearing my Cool Season gurus (professors, GC supts, etc.) refer to it as "a completely different animal". They would refer to discussions with the college interns they worked with/supervised from southern universities, which they had to re-educate in Cool Season turf science/maintenance. I decided to check him out, and got hooked on his videos for awhile. Eventually, that changed as he started pushing fertilizer products and worked his way up from small, cheap no-name spreaders and other equipment to expensive, brand new spreaders, mowers, etc. (and giving them away). Even though I started to see through his tactics, I continued to watch until he started contradicting himself in various ways (FYI - Tru-Cut/McLane, plus others).
> 
> Biochar has been produced by humans for thousands of years to amend poor soils (produced in man-made pits in the rainforest, due to poor native soil-counterintuitive, isn't it?). Several years ago 5-6+, I attended turf/landscape seminars advocating the use of it as a soil amendment. At that time, it was mainly used in beds and gardens, due to the coarseness of the particles. I purchased it (a 50/50 compost/biochar product called Pro Soil Enhancer) for my landscape crew (flower beds) at work to help with sandy soil that had been depleted of nutrients. We used it with some success, but my elderly crew leader, who advocated organics, complained of the dustiness. Go figure.
> 
> Anyway, I believe that the product he is pushing can be helpful in very poor soil conditions, but expect the cost will outweigh the benefits. If you have good soil or a good fertility program, I don't think it will be extremely helpful. Just MHO.
> 
> If your HOC is not extremely low and you tend to apply compost in the spring as a typical routine of an organic, low N/maintenance, soil based fertility program, it might be worth using your compost spreader/shovel slinger to try the Pro Soil Enhancer (or similar product with biochar), to boost a poor-mediocre soil.
> 
> I would be interested in experiences that other members have and their opinions.


Excellent post and thanks for sharing your knowledge. It seems all the YouTube lawn gurus push products.

Biochar used in compost seems to work. The biochar used in compost is more "chunky" rather than a granular or powder. Do you think a finer form of biochar works as well as bigger particles that have been mixed in?


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## Chris LI

dman said:


> Excellent post and thanks for sharing your knowledge. It seems all the YouTube lawn gurus push products.
> 
> Biochar used in compost seems to work. The biochar used in compost is more "chunky" rather than a granular or powder. Do you think a finer form of biochar works as well as bigger particles that have been mixed in?


I'm not sure. A soil scientist/expert would need to chime in on this, but I'll take a crack at it.

My gut tells me the difference between the particle sizes might result in the following: 
1. Smaller particles would yield a more even distribution per given amount, as greens grade SGN ferts.
2. The smaller size should break down more easily, hence faster incorporation into the soil and quicker reaction with the soil/processing by the roots.

However, what is the smaller size a result of?
1. More physical handling during production/transport, or
2. More/different level of the charring process 
3. Or something else.
4. Lastly, how would this affect #1 or #2 above.

All others things equal, I think #1 and #2 from the first section would be the case.

Any soil scientists in the house?


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## corneliani

Feelings about Doc aside - and I wouldn't put him in the same category as the LCN's of the YouTube world, for what its worth- there's something interesting he's mentioning that makes a lot of sense: specifically that the HA/Biochar products need to be able to get into the grass root zone for optimum performance. That part right there is making a lot of sense. I've been topdressing my bermuda turf, installed over the heaviest/wettest clay fill-dirt imaginable, with a Biochar/Compost soil enhancer (the Mirimichi CarbonizPN product, to be exact) and while I'm seeing good results with water & nutrient retention I've noticed this winter that it's holding _too much _water at the surface. This combination of organic matter and clay, as I'm learning more and more from this site and others, is essentially making muck (I think I need to switch to a sandier topdressing material going forward).

So while the concept of using something like carbonX with its biochar granules is preferred over the synthetic fillers, this product seems to go further by utilizing the DG process to break down these granules and allow them to enter the soil profile exponentially faster. I'm thinking that applied during the aeration process should allow further infiltration and be an ideal application time. Since HA and biochar, specifically, benefit the plants by binding nutrients and making them plant-available, the idea of placing these in the plant root zone seems perfectly logical. So while i follow Doc and learn from his videos as much as I can, trying to keep my eye-rolls to a minimum during his outlandish claims, it does seem that this particular product has some good things going for it. Now if only there was a reputable distributor that would carry it, at a decent price!


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## adgattoni

1,000 square feet 6 inches deep = 500 cubic feet, or 18.519 cubic yards. If the average weight of a cubic yard of soil is 2,000 lbs, there's 37,038 lb of soil per 1,000 square feet 6 inches deep. I just can't put stock in 10lb of this doing anything meaningful against 37,000 lb of soil, especially for the price we all know Doc is going to want for this.


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## corneliani

adgattoni said:


> 1,000 square feet 6 inches deep = 500 cubic feet, or 18.519 cubic yards. If the average weight of a cubic yard of soil is 2,000 lbs, there's 37,038 lb of soil per 1,000 square feet 6 inches deep. I just can't put stock in 10lb of this doing anything meaningful against 37,000 lb of soil, especially for the price we all know Doc is going to want for this.


yeah, the argument of whether these carbon-based inputs have much if any effect on our soils is debatable, esp in the amounts we're applying them at... but if you buy into the documented benefits they do offer, incorporating them into the soil profile seems to be a better method than on top of the soil, no? I guess I never thought about it until now and I'm a bit bitter that a Doc product made me realize this :roll:


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## dman

Chris LI said:


> dman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent post and thanks for sharing your knowledge. It seems all the YouTube lawn gurus push products.
> 
> Biochar used in compost seems to work. The biochar used in compost is more "chunky" rather than a granular or powder. Do you think a finer form of biochar works as well as bigger particles that have been mixed in?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure. A soil scientist/expert would need to chime in on this, but I'll take a crack at it.
> 
> My gut tells me the difference between the particle sizes might result in the following:
> 1. Smaller particles would yield a more even distribution per given amount, as greens grade SGN ferts.
> 2. The smaller size should break down more easily, hence faster incorporation into the soil and quicker reaction with the soil/processing by the roots.
> 
> However, what is the smaller size a result of?
> 1. More physical handling during production/transport, or
> 2. More/different level of the charring process
> 3. Or something else.
> 4. Lastly, how would this affect #1 or #2 above.
> 
> All others things equal, I think #1 and #2 from the first section would be the case.
> 
> Any soil scientists in the house?
Click to expand...

Great analysis, thanks.

I am wondering how these smaller particles will act once in the soil. One of the advantages of biochar is that it acts like a sponge. I holds moisture and nutrients for the plant to use as needed. Do these smaller particles work as a sponge? Or does the smaller particles lose alot of that sponge ability once in the soil?


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## dman

Chris LI said:


> dman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent post and thanks for sharing your knowledge. It seems all the YouTube lawn gurus push products.
> 
> Biochar used in compost seems to work. The biochar used in compost is more "chunky" rather than a granular or powder. Do you think a finer form of biochar works as well as bigger particles that have been mixed in?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure. A soil scientist/expert would need to chime in on this, but I'll take a crack at it.
> 
> My gut tells me the difference between the particle sizes might result in the following:
> 1. Smaller particles would yield a more even distribution per given amount, as greens grade SGN ferts.
> 2. The smaller size should break down more easily, hence faster incorporation into the soil and quicker reaction with the soil/processing by the roots.
> 
> However, what is the smaller size a result of?
> 1. More physical handling during production/transport, or
> 2. More/different level of the charring process
> 3. Or something else.
> 4. Lastly, how would this affect #1 or #2 above.
> 
> All others things equal, I think #1 and #2 from the first section would be the case.
> 
> Any soil scientists in the house?
Click to expand...

Great analysis, thanks.

I am wondering how these smaller particles will act once in the soil. One of the advantages of biochar is that it acts like a sponge. I holds moisture and nutrients for the plant to use as needed. Do these smaller particles work as a sponge? Or does the smaller particles lose alot of that sponge ability once in the soil?


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## dman

corneliani said:


> Feelings about Doc aside - and I wouldn't put him in the same category as the LCN's of the YouTube world, for what its worth- there's something interesting he's mentioning that makes a lot of sense: specifically that the HA/Biochar products need to be able to get into the grass root zone for optimum performance. That part right there is making a lot of sense. I've been topdressing my bermuda turf, installed over the heaviest/wettest clay fill-dirt imaginable, with a Biochar/Compost soil enhancer (the Mirimichi CarbonizPN product, to be exact) and while I'm seeing good results with water & nutrient retention I've noticed this winter that it's holding _too much _water at the surface. This combination of organic matter and clay, as I'm learning more and more from this site and others, is essentially making muck (I think I need to switch to a sandier topdressing material going forward).
> 
> So while the concept of using something like carbonX with its biochar granules is preferred over the synthetic fillers, this product seems to go further by utilizing the DG process to break down these granules and allow them to enter the soil profile exponentially faster. I'm thinking that applied during the aeration process should allow further infiltration and be an ideal application time. Since HA and biochar, specifically, benefit the plants by binding nutrients and making them plant-available, the idea of placing these in the plant root zone seems perfectly logical. So while i follow Doc and learn from his videos as much as I can, trying to keep my eye-rolls to a minimum during his outlandish claims, it does seem that this particular product has some good things going for it. Now if only there was a reputable distributor that would carry it, at a decent price!


Well put.

I agree with your take on the YouTube lawn care salesmen. While all these guys are pushing the products they sell, I have also learned alot from them. Sometimes I think the Doc bashers are competitors but that is not a big deal.

I have used the products Doc pushes and I hate to admit it but these products work. I like the DG products. I am not going to bash the other guys. I am sure their products work well also.

That being said, it is up to the individual to decide which products they like and are OK as far as the price.

I am glad to be on this forum. I have learned alot just reading what you guys post.

I may try the Humichar. I already use the Humic DG product. I would say it works. Of course it is not the magic potion these salesmen say it is but I am happy with it so far. I am skeptical about how these small biochar particles will work.


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## Chris LI

^+1
Thanks for the info/insight @corneliani 
Do you aerate before topdressing? I know that core aeration can cause weed seeds to be brought to the surface, but sometimes it needs to be done to move amendments to the root zone. I know some folks have real issues with clay and it's not an easy solution, unless you have big $ to import good topsoil.


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## corneliani

Chris LI said:


> ^+1
> Thanks for the info/insight @corneliani
> Do you aerate before topdressing? I know that core aeration can cause weed seeds to be brought to the surface, but sometimes it needs to be done to move amendments to the root zone. I know some folks have real issues with clay and it's not an easy solution, unless you have big $ to import good topsoil.


On my bermuda portion I feel like I would aerate every month, during the growing season, if I owned an aerator! The benefits would far outweigh any risk of weeds being brought up, especially since weeds are so easily handled in that turf. On my TTTF portion though I'll admit to being a bit leery of doing it. Trying to fight Poa, etc, in that turf is not only hard but expensive! But i'm still learning and getting comfortable with TTTF.. we'll see what this year brings. Last year completely humbled me :x


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## lambert

Chris LI said:


> The more and more I think about it, I get the uneasy feeling as others have mentioned, that Doc is just pitching products to find a nitch in the market.


His videos are basically just infomercials.


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## dman

lambert said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> The more and more I think about it, I get the uneasy feeling as others have mentioned, that Doc is just pitching products to find a nitch in the market.
> 
> 
> 
> His videos are basically just infomercials.
Click to expand...

YouTube is full of them from different folks.


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## alt-brian

dman said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent post and thanks for sharing your knowledge. It seems all the YouTube lawn gurus push products.
> 
> Biochar used in compost seems to work. The biochar used in compost is more "chunky" rather than a granular or powder. Do you think a finer form of biochar works as well as bigger particles that have been mixed in?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure. A soil scientist/expert would need to chime in on this, but I'll take a crack at it.
> 
> My gut tells me the difference between the particle sizes might result in the following:
> 1. Smaller particles would yield a more even distribution per given amount, as greens grade SGN ferts.
> 2. The smaller size should break down more easily, hence faster incorporation into the soil and quicker reaction with the soil/processing by the roots.
> 
> However, what is the smaller size a result of?
> 1. More physical handling during production/transport, or
> 2. More/different level of the charring process
> 3. Or something else.
> 4. Lastly, how would this affect #1 or #2 above.
> 
> All others things equal, I think #1 and #2 from the first section would be the case.
> 
> Any soil scientists in the house?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great analysis, thanks.
> 
> I am wondering how these smaller particles will act once in the soil. One of the advantages of biochar is that it acts like a sponge. I holds moisture and nutrients for the plant to use as needed. Do these smaller particles work as a sponge? Or does the smaller particles lose alot of that sponge ability once in the soil?
Click to expand...

I am not a soil scientist and I am not saying the product is good/worth it.

I can tell you about carbon. Part of my job is to test incoming carbon to make sure it meets all of our standards. We use it to make water filters. Our carbon is a "boichar" made from coconut shells put through pyrolysis, ground down to fine particles, mixed with a binding agent, heated and extruded to form a cylinder for water filtration. Pressurized dirty water outside passes through the carbon filter for much cleaner water inside.

The smaller particles do NOT decrease the absorption capacity of the carbon. And carbon absorbs a lot. Carbon is incredibly reactive and bonds with just about everything. One true statement from Doc's vid about carbon is the incredible amount of surface area carbon has. When the biomass is burned through pyrolysis, pretty much the only thing left is the carbon structure.

Last year I decided that this year I would use some of our carbon and test it in my lawn. I have been researching pre-charging it.


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## mowww

@alt-brian cool! Appreciate the info. Keep us updated!


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## dman

alt-brian said:


> dman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure. A soil scientist/expert would need to chime in on this, but I'll take a crack at it.
> 
> My gut tells me the difference between the particle sizes might result in the following:
> 1. Smaller particles would yield a more even distribution per given amount, as greens grade SGN ferts.
> 2. The smaller size should break down more easily, hence faster incorporation into the soil and quicker reaction with the soil/processing by the roots.
> 
> However, what is the smaller size a result of?
> 1. More physical handling during production/transport, or
> 2. More/different level of the charring process
> 3. Or something else.
> 4. Lastly, how would this affect #1 or #2 above.
> 
> All others things equal, I think #1 and #2 from the first section would be the case.
> 
> Any soil scientists in the house?
> 
> 
> 
> Great analysis, thanks.
> 
> I am wondering how these smaller particles will act once in the soil. One of the advantages of biochar is that it acts like a sponge. I holds moisture and nutrients for the plant to use as needed. Do these smaller particles work as a sponge? Or does the smaller particles lose alot of that sponge ability once in the soil?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not a soil scientist and I am not saying the product is good/worth it.
> 
> I can tell you about carbon. Part of my job is to test incoming carbon to make sure it meets all of our standards. We use it to make water filters. Our carbon is a "boichar" made from coconut shells put through pyrolysis, ground down to fine particles, mixed with a binding agent, heated and extruded to form a cylinder for water filtration. Pressurized dirty water outside passes through the carbon filter for much cleaner water inside.
> 
> The smaller particles do NOT decrease the absorption capacity of the carbon. And carbon absorbs a lot. Carbon is incredibly reactive and bonds with just about everything. One true statement from Doc's vid about carbon is the incredible amount of surface area carbon has. When the biomass is burned through pyrolysis, pretty much the only thing left is the carbon structure.
> 
> Last year I decided that this year I would use some of our carbon and test it in my lawn. I have been researching pre-charging it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. Keep us posted on your results.


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## Backyard Soldier

Gilley11 said:


> This may be a good product, I don't know, but please PLEASE stay away from this doc guy. I just watched a video and this is what he said:
> 
> "Whenever I put out pre emergent, I always mix it with super juice. It helps the CEC ratios and it bonds to the soil better"
> 
> If that doesn't tell you that this guy is complete BS and just out for the sales then I've got a beach house in South Dakota to sell you.


wait....a beach house? how much u want for it? lets talk


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## sean_h

All these comments about getting products down into the root zone is exactly why the couple days right after core aerating is the best time to spread granular amendments and organic fertilizers... granular humic, bone char, EarthWorks Renovate, Carbon X, Milo... my favorite time to spread, get it down into the openings in the soil.

https://tenor.com/baLRd.gif


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## dman

Backyard Soldier said:


> Gilley11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This may be a good product, I don't know, but please PLEASE stay away from this doc guy. I just watched a video and this is what he said:
> 
> "Whenever I put out pre emergent, I always mix it with super juice. It helps the CEC ratios and it bonds to the soil better"
> 
> If that doesn't tell you that this guy is complete BS and just out for the sales then I've got a beach house in South Dakota to sell you.
> 
> 
> 
> wait....a beach house? how much u want for it? lets talk
Click to expand...

There are also YouTubers selling beach houses in Colorodo as well.


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## bmw

yes, I think Doc is onto something here. His logic makes sense that the chunky style biochar does not do any good when applied on top of a lawn. That style is best integrated into the soil by tilling/raking it in. Otherwise, it would just sit there in the canopy when top applied. The fact that these DG particles dissolve/break-down leads me to believe it can get down in the soil where it belongs to do some good. Carbon that lasts years in the soil profile. I'm looking forward to trying this out.


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## jarrodsp71

Fool? Maybe. I just bought me a bag on amazon. Still to embarrassed to say what I paid for it. Let's see how it goes.


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## Gilley11

WOW $85!!!


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## sfairchild

$85 for a 40lb bag??? That's a hell of a lot of money for getting no nutrients. I'll stick with the Carbon Earth products because their bio-char is infused with Chicken poo and also contains root hair promoting peptides. And no, it's not big chunks like doc shows in his video. I use CX DIY and XGN DIY fertilizer on my lawn and at least I'm getting something for my money. If you want something similar to Humichar that doesn't contain any NPK, check out XSoil DIY. It's $50 for a 45lb bag.

https://thelawncarenut.com/collections/granular-fertilizer/products/x-soil-soil-amendment


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## jarrodsp71

Live and learn I guess. $35 difference isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. It sold out quick last time and if people thought it was bad there would be a bunch of bad reviews because we all know how people talk $hit if a product isn't good.


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## Gilley11

It's probably a high quality product, but it's way overpriced. Just remember that it's a soil amendment and not a nutrient.

After you've used it, post back your thoughts.


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## Mightyquinn

How are you going to tell if a soil amendment works if it has no nutrients in it?


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## jarrodsp71

It has it's own website with the info there. I see it can't hurt what I'm doing. I don't know pricing for much lawn care stuff. It may be overpriced but again, it's $85 that I should get about four uses out of. I'll keep an update in my journal. I'm going to apply with it my fert first week of May.


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## Backyard Soldier

So is this the 'secret' product he was teasing about last fall. He said it would be 'revolutionary'


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## jarrodsp71

Backyard Soldier said:


> So is this the 'secret' product he was teasing about last fall. He said it would be 'revolutionary'


I don't know for sure but I believe so.


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## Backyard Soldier

Mightyquinn said:


> How are you going to tell if a soil amendment works if it has no nutrients in it?


Very good question. Am I naive to think Ia company like The Anderson's should be trusted. And the product isn't snake oil?


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## jarrodsp71

Backyard Soldier said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> How are you going to tell if a soil amendment works if it has no nutrients in it?
> 
> 
> 
> Very good question. Am I naive to think Ia company like The Anderson's should be trusted. And the product isn't snake oil?
Click to expand...

What's the best stuff? And why? I would like to know for future.


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## corneliani

jarrodsp71 said:


> Backyard Soldier said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> How are you going to tell if a soil amendment works if it has no nutrients in it?
> 
> 
> 
> Very good question. Am I naive to think Ia company like The Anderson's should be trusted. And the product isn't snake oil?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's the best stuff? And why? I would like to know for future.
Click to expand...

Not sure anyone can argue this isn't good stuff, per se... just expensive for what it is. I wonder how much of a better value it would be if it would have a local distribution network vs all the overhead of shipping to amazon & to homeowner.. not to mention the commissions paid along the way. 
I haven't personally tried it as there are better values available to me. I've applied the Mirimichi biochar/compost mix a few times, at approx $20/bag, but it's more comparable to Xsoil than Humichar. Last time I purchased it they told me it comes in granular form now too but I prefer the soil as I topdress w it after aeration. 
The only knock on Anderson's is that they aligned themselves w Doc on pushing to the diy market. SuperJuice, for ex, isn't a bad product but the way it was marketed and touted as the only fert you'll ever need, etc, ... to now being referred to as a supplemental fert ... it just loses credibility in my eyes. Either Doc doesn't know as much as he spews or he's not the most honest cat. Very likely a little of both.


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## jarrodsp71

He definitely likes to think he knows it all. I do believe he has good some points, however. I am in sales. Everyone is a salesperson. I'm not going to blame someone for pushing a product. The Barricade PE he pushes has done really well for me the last couple years I applied it. I like the PGF complete I have also used the last couple of years. I doubt this is going to be game changer in the Humichar but since I have liked the other products why not give it a shot.


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## Backyard Soldier

corneliani said:


> jarrodsp71 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Backyard Soldier said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very good question. Am I naive to think Ia company like The Anderson's should be trusted. And the product isn't snake oil?
> 
> 
> 
> What's the best stuff? And why? I would like to know for future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not sure anyone can argue this isn't good stuff, per se... just expensive for what it is. I wonder how much of a better value it would be if it would have a local distribution network vs all the overhead of shipping to amazon & to homeowner.. not to mention the commissions paid along the way.
> I haven't personally tried it as there are better values available to me. I've applied the Mirimichi biochar/compost mix a few times, at approx $20/bag, but it's more comparable to Xsoil than Humichar. Last time I purchased it they told me it comes in granular form now too but I prefer the soil as I topdress w it after aeration.
> The only knock on Anderson's is that they aligned themselves w Doc on pushing to the diy market. SuperJuice, for ex, isn't a bad product but the way it was marketed and touted as the only fert you'll ever need, etc, ... to now being referred to as a supplemental fert ... it just loses credibility in my eyes. Either Doc doesn't know as much as he spews or he's not the most honest cat. Very likely a little of both.
Click to expand...

one thing I can tell you is there is a SIGNIFICANT mark-up on Anderson Amazon products vs same products at other distributors...for example, 40# bag of Humic DG is $ 64.88 on Amazon but only 49.99 @ AM Leo. ; DuoCide is $34.88 for 18# bag on Amazon but you can get the 40# bag for $47.29 @ AM Leo. as examples.


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## Backyard Soldier

jarrodsp71 said:


> Backyard Soldier said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> 
> How are you going to tell if a soil amendment works if it has no nutrients in it?
> 
> 
> 
> Very good question. Am I naive to think Ia company like The Anderson's should be trusted. And the product isn't snake oil?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's the best stuff? And why? I would like to know for future.
Click to expand...

i haven't used HumiChar so I cant comment on that. I did pickup a few bags of XSoli to add to my front yard after a sand topdressing for leveling I just did. I will see how it does over this next growing season. I have used other Carbon Earth product with very satisfying results. I believe in their products thus far.


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## Haywood74

What's to stop a person of using something like a proplugger.....grab a plug say 6" deep....pull the plug out and drop in some biochar and anything else you might need.....drop the same plug right back in the same spot.......rinse, lather, repeat.....??????

As much as I think it's a good idea to be putting biochar into the lawn, I am not so sure you would be able to build up a significant layer of char without having to dump oceans of this stuff onto your lawn....

I am, however, very interested to see if his theory of being able to feed your lawn with chicken feed actually works or not....


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## krusej23

I just think for $85 you can buy a lot of fertilizer to actually put nutrients down in your yard. $85 for a 40lb bag of humic and biochar will not go far at all.


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## mike_b

If you do enough research you will realize that these products are just repackaging and marketing things that have been known about and used for years. Their main value is in their convenience and marketing, which is definitely worth something. It makes it a lot easier for joe sixpack if he can just buy "root stimulator" pre-mixed in a jug, rather than go out and buy 2 or 3 raw products and put it together himself.

That being said, I do think it is slimy to offer multiple products that are very similar and act as if they serve completely different purposes.


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## Thrownerdown

I love Doc. He's turn my lawn into a yard of the month. I modified his Bermuda calendar to fit my budget but if you follow his schedule for a Bermuda grass YOU WILL HAVE A AWESOME LAWN!! And I don't care if he's pushing or selling products some people want to buy them. A lot of people talk smack but don't have a YouTube channel with over 100k subscribers nor do they have a lawn that looks as good as Docs. The proof is in the pudding. &#128521;


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## Gilley11

@Thrownerdown how's the chicken feed working for you?


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## Thrownerdown

I've only put one bag down. Doc showed on his last video how dark his dirt has become but like he said it takes years so it's better to get started sooner rather than later right. Build that what is it pettra terra ?


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## Mightyquinn

From my observations of Doc and his videos, his lawn always looks good because you usually only see it early in the morning when there is dew on the ground, which only enhances how your lawn looks or he hasn't mowed his lawn in a few days so it's all grown and long and lush. I think how good a lawn looks is how it looks AFTER you mow, any lawn can look good after 3-4 days of not mowing. The other thing I have noticed is that he puts WAY too much fertilizer on his lawn which is why I suspect he was scalping his lawn a few times last year, if you are pounding your lawn with Nitrogen all season long of course it's going to be green but it's also going to grow out of control. I just think he puts out a lot of bad information and tries to sell products on it and once you learn that you can save a lot of money and have a lawn that looks just as good. I think a lot of people put these YouTube stars up on pedestals and don't realize that most of them are trying to make a living off this new found fame so they are trying to promote whatever they are selling as the best thing since sliced bread and I'm just over it all. You can come here to TLF and find the exact, if not better information that you need to make your lawn awesome and it doesn't cost you a thing and may even save you some money in the long run.


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## Pete1313

Mightyquinn said:


> I think a lot of people put these YouTube stars up on pedestals and don't realize that most of them are trying to make a living off this new found fame so they are trying to promote whatever they are selling as the best thing since sliced bread and I'm just over it all. You can come here to TLF and find the exact, if not better information that you need to make your lawn awesome and it doesn't cost you a thing and may even save you some money in the long run.


Agree 100%.


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## Thrownerdown

I'm sure everyone on YouTube that has over 100 k subscribers has people putting them on pedastal. It's all speculation about doc. I'm just curious how much of the negative commentators have skin in the game. I'm not selling any lawn products so I have no dog in the fight.


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## Ridgerunner

A wise man learns to separate the grains of knowledge from the chaff of checanery.


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## Gilley11

@Thrownerdown it's not speculation, it's proven bad information and arrogance over and over again. It's proven that he deletes all comments that don't fluff him up. You can't turn solid clay into black soil by spreading amendments on top.


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## bernstem

Gilley11 said:


> You can't turn solid clay into black soil by spreading amendments on top.


I have a silty loam soil (20% clay, 50% silt, 30% sand). I have added ~5 yards of compost as top dressing per 1000 sq ft. There is a nice horizon at ~2-3 inches down where the soil goes from black to tan/grey. At about 5-7 inches down in some areas (mostly where there is a higher level of grey clay, it is hard to get a 1 inch core sampler into the soil. The hard layer transition used to be at ~2-3 inches. It has been 10 years that I have been adding organics to my soil. I expect in another 20, the horizon might be at 3-4 inches if I keep up with the organics. By contrast, my gardens, which started with the same base soil, were tilled to ~24 inches, and amended with 3 inches of compost and 3 inches of peat moss are dark black down at least 12-18 inches and easy to dig in. The bottom line is top dressing will take forever to transform clay and fine silt soils unless it is incorporated. If I really had clay soil (>40% clay), it would be worse. Lets be honest, though, almost no one has a true clay soil in ther home lawn.


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## sfairchild

@Thrownerdown I have no skin in the game. I'm just a normal (well somewhat normal) DIY guy. I'm sure some of Doc's products are good, but personally I'd rather throw down X-Soil than Humichar. One 40lb bag of Humichar is $85. I can get a 45lb bags of X-Soil for $50. Seems like a much better deal to me. Doc also says stuff that makes me shake my head in amazement. For example, recently he did a video about Core Aerating. He said to cut your lawn down low before aerating so the tines go in deeper... What???


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## Thrownerdown

@sfairchild I didn't order humichar. I'm sure it's good stuff. I went with this instead. 
. And I do believe you can feed your microbes with decaying organic matter in conjunction with biochar will turn soil into rich dark color.


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## Thrownerdown

I forgot to add it only cost around $10


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## cldrunner

Thrownerdown said:


> I love Doc. He's turn my lawn into a yard of the month. I modified his Bermuda calendar to fit my budget but if you follow his schedule for a Bermuda grass YOU WILL HAVE A AWESOME LAWN!! And I don't care if he's pushing or selling products some people want to buy them. A lot of people talk smack but don't have a YouTube channel with over 100k subscribers nor do they have a lawn that looks as good as Docs. The proof is in the pudding. 😉


@Thrownerdown If it is such an awesome lawn why does he have to do renovation after renovation. He is great at marketing his Amazon products to make an affiliate commission. I have seen his backyard full of weeds and thinning. If I woke up every morning at sunrise and took video with the dew on the ground in low light my yard in parts looks even better. In three years he has gone from Liquid Lawn (added iron), Super Juice, and now some humichar product. Next year it will be something else. It's all to get you to click on that Amazon link at collect the affiliate fees.


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## Thrownerdown

Gilley11 said:


> @Thrownerdown it's not speculation, it's proven bad information and arrogance over and over again. It's proven that he deletes all comments that don't fluff him up. You can't turn solid clay into black soil by spreading amendments on top.


I disagree. I believe the bbc documentary about the secret of El Dorado. I believe that's all it takes. The scientists studied it out go argue with them since your a soil scientist I assume?


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## g-man

I'm going to lock this thread. It is just another argument around Doc.


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