# 2.5 Acre Lawn - Need advice



## ZimmerKen (Jul 21, 2021)

Hi All,

Been reading all the great info here on the forum and have learned a lot. Now I am ready to put some of it into action. 
I am definitely new to this so I was hoping to get some feedback on my current plan of action. Hopefully some affirmation that what I am planning is good or some advice on why it isn't and maybe some suggestions on what may work out better and why.

I just got the results from my soil test. This is what I have. Everything is low except sodium. I have no idea what any of this means :? .



I have 2.5 acres that is all grass, some thick, some sparse and a whole variety of weeds throughout all of it!
My soil is super sandy and does not hold water well. I do have irrigation that was put in last summer.

I am planning on doing a heavy broadleaf spray (weather permitting) next week. 
I am planning on using LV400 2,4D spray in a pull behind broadcast sprayer. 
I plan on waiting a week and then dethatching, over-seeding and starter fert. 
I read about the starter fert and it was suggested not to use nitrogen until the new grass is growing. 
My Soil test is suggesting a 12-12-12 but I am not sure this would be best. Any advice?

We have been paying someone who has been doing granular fert and preemergent and it has not shown good results. I bought the pull behind sprayer and would like to start doing liquid applications. Any suggestions on what is a good choice for fert and preemergent?

I am certainly open to all advice and help as to what may work best, best times to do it and certainly what is going to work and be most cost effective. Looking at the cost of things on this large lawn and this is getting very expensive very quickly. 
What do you some of you with large lawns do?

Thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## monza2t (Jul 20, 2021)

Check your 2,4-D label but I believe you have to wait 30 days after application to seed.


----------



## ZimmerKen (Jul 21, 2021)

monza2t said:


> Check your 2,4-D label but I believe you have to wait 30 days after application to seed.


Thank you! I just checked and it says 3-4 weeks. This would have been a fatal error on my part!


----------



## ZimmerKen (Jul 21, 2021)

So is my schedule not correct?

Should I Dethatch, overseed and fert. then wait and do the broadleaf? 
I am worry if I wait 3-4 weeks it will be to late to overseed?


----------



## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Skip the nitrogen at time of seeding. Seed has everything it needs for the first few weeks. You can apply a starter fert two weeks after germination.

How bad is your lawn? If it's mostly weeds, why not spray glyphosate over the really bad areas. There is no waiting period before seeding. You could spray and seed same day.

Pictures will help.


----------



## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Yes, use a balanced fertilizer when you fertilize as you need nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium. It can be 12-12-12 or 20-20-20 or whatever. Use the amount to get 1 lb of nutrient per 1000 sq ft. Those numbers are percentages of N, P, and K in the product.

You need lime too. They don't tell you how much you need as they don't know. All this test gives you is recommendations for one application of amendments. Also, you can't trust their pH reading. Next time get a soil test from a reliable soil test facility. They will give recommendations for a whole year's worth of amendments and tell you how much lime in total you need. The most you can apply at one time is 50 lb of lime per 1000 sq ft so you might as well do that later this fall. If you get the quick acting kind, follow bag directions. It will be a start.


----------



## ZimmerKen (Jul 21, 2021)

Harts said:


> Skip the nitrogen at time of seeding. Seed has everything it needs for the first few weeks. You can apply a starter fert two weeks after germination.
> 
> How bad is your lawn? If it's mostly weeds, why not spray glyphosate over the really bad areas. There is no waiting period before seeding. You could spray and seed same day.
> 
> Pictures will help.


Thanks Harts. 
The broadleaf says not to reseed for 3-4 weeks.

"10. When to re-plant?
Wait 3-4 weeks after application before re-seeding. For new lawns, apply only when grass has reached a height of at least 2 inches and has been mowed at least 2-3 times."

I had considered just killing it all and starting fresh but it's a lot of lawn and that size and type of project worries me. Im new to this so not sure exactly what to do or if it is the best scenario with my current lawn.

Here are some pics. It looks ok from a distance but when you get on top of it there are various weeds growing throughout.


----------



## ZimmerKen (Jul 21, 2021)

Virginiagal said:


> Yes, use a balanced fertilizer when you fertilize as you need nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium. It can be 12-12-12 or 20-20-20 or whatever. Use the amount to get 1 lb of nutrient per 1000 sq ft. Those numbers are percentages of N, P, and K in the product.
> 
> You need lime too. They don't tell you how much you need as they don't know. All this test gives you is recommendations for one application of amendments. Also, you can't trust their pH reading. Next time get a soil test from a reliable soil test facility. They will give recommendations for a whole year's worth of amendments and tell you how much lime in total you need. The most you can apply at one time is 50 lb of lime per 1000 sq ft so you might as well do that later this fall. If you get the quick acting kind, follow bag directions. It will be a start.


Thanks Virginiagal!

The My Soil is not a good lab to use for tests? I had looked into it and thought that it was. 
Do you you have a recommendation? I will look into the lime. This is something I have not seen much info about.


----------



## Harts (May 14, 2018)

You're right, it is a huge project. Part of the problem is, broadleaf weeds aren't your only issue. I see grassy weeds as well, and 2,4-D won't touch those. Glyphosate is your only chemical option.

Given the fact you have such a big property and are unlikely to maintain it like Augusts, you can probably live with a few weeds here and there. If you can, you can scalp the lawn as low as you can and seed. Worry about the broadleaf weeds later. Those are easy to take care of.

I'm not sure when your seeding window closes, but waiting 3-4 weeks after spray 2,4-D puts you into the middle of September. That doesn't leave much time for the new grass to establish before colder temps and frost set in.

Check out this link for soil test labs: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3124


----------



## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Some info on these online labs and their shortcomings:
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=26242
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=16135

Harts has given you a link for some reliable labs. U of Minnesota also does soil testing:
https://soiltest.cfans.umn.edu/


----------



## ZimmerKen (Jul 21, 2021)

Thanks, I think mid September is getting to late, so scalping and getting some seed down and settled before the cold seems like the best plan right now. You're right, I will be able to live with some weeds in this large lawn. I want it to be nice but I am not trying for perfection. I can work on the grassy weeds over time and at least reduce them.


----------



## ZimmerKen (Jul 21, 2021)

Do I need to wait to overseed after applying lime to my lawn?

Here is what I am planning. Does this look correct? PH is at 5.5.

Scalp short
Dethatch
Lime
Overseed/Fertilize 0-0-25
Wait a couple weeks and fertilize 12-12-12

Just curious if I can do this all one after the other or if I need to wait in between?


----------



## robjak (Mar 31, 2020)

made post to the wrong thread or at least thought i did. did someone combine thread right before i posted.

How much did you pay for the mysoil test? Penn State easy peasy and only $9 per sample for basic test. Plus shipping ~$6 for all samples

I would have no issue liming at seed down (but depends on amount) Others may have other ideas. I would prefer to lime before and have at least one rain event or water in before.

I would wait to apply any fert but phosphorus during seed down.


----------



## ZimmerKen (Jul 21, 2021)

Thanks robjak. The my soil test was$30.

I need to put down 28lbs per 1000sqft of lime so I am looking at 2800lbs for the whole lawn.

On the fert I am somewhat confused because the overseed thread here says 0-25-25 when putting seed down but I could only find 0-0-25 to purchase so I thought maybe it was a typo. So you are saying it should be more like 0-25-0?


----------



## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

0-25-25 has phosphorus and potassium. 0-25-0 has phosphorus but no potassium. 0-0-25 has potassium but no phosphorus. Whether any of them are available, I don't know. When ForsheeMS wrote the guide apparently he had access to 0-25-25. The point is to not use any nitrogen then because it would spur growth in the existing grass at the very time you don't want it to grow and outshade the seedlings. ForsheeMS used a fertilizer with phosphorus just to get some phosphorus next to the seed in case the top surface was deficient in phosphorus, as it promotes root growth (maybe that was the only kind he could find with no nitrogen; the starter fertilizers all have nitrogen). You are low in phosphorus and potassium, so a fertilizer with no nitrogen and some phosphorus and potassium could be useful at seeding, But if you don't find it, don't worry about it. You should start fertilizing a couple weeks after overseeding with a low rate of a balanced fertilizer and increasing the rate gradually, as explained in the guide. That will give you nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium.


----------



## ZimmerKen (Jul 21, 2021)

Thanks Virginiagal. 
I am definitely going to use something with no nitrogen to start out. 
I read his entire thread on the overseed at least a couple times so I think I have that part down and am going to follow that plan. 
Been reading up on lime all morning and have it figured I need approx 2800lbs to do my 100,000sq ft of lawn. This will put me at 28lbs per 1000 and should raise the PH from 5.5 to 6.5. 
Finding, buying and putting all this lime, seed and fert down plus dethatch and aerate all in the next few weeks is going to be a big task. Might have to quit my day job to take care of my lawn!


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would not do lime right before seeds. I don't like messing with soil when I'm trying to grow seeds/roots.

Also, i would not just do a random amount of lime. Get a proper test that will tell you how much lime and what type (calcitic vs dolomatic). You can make things worst for you, plus spend money you might not need. With 2.5 acres, a $25 good test might be a good investment.


----------



## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

You need a buffer pH test to really know how much lime to use. Some soils are lightly buffered and a small amount of lime will raise the pH such and such amount, while other soils are heavily buffered and will require much more lime to do the same thing.

I do question the whole overseeding idea. I don't see much space for new grass. Your seed is going to outcompeted by the existing grass. I think you could get some good results with just fertilizer and weedkiller this fall. Skip the aerating, dethatching, scalping, seeding. Start fertilizing, at full amount (1 lb/1000 sq ft of a nutrient per month) and put down lime after you get the soil test recommendations (usually a good idea to separate lime and fertilizer by two weeks). If you're not seeding, you can use any appropriate herbicide for the weeds you have. Some, like crabgrass, will die at frost anyway. You can even put down preemergent like Prodiamine now to prevent winter weeds like poa annua. Preemergent in the spring will prevent next summer's annual weeds, like crabgrass. Skipping overseeding will greatly lessen the work load.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

^ +1 nitrogen + water


----------



## ZimmerKen (Jul 21, 2021)

Thanks G-man and virginiagal,

I think getting another (better) soil test would be prudent before I start adding things into my soil.
I am still going to overseed. I know the lawn may look somewhat full from the pics but it is very thin in many areas.
My hopes are to get the grass in thick and full this fall and then hit it good with preemergent in the spring and hopefully have something better to work with next season. 
I am going to wait until spring to do the next soil test since my window to overseed is here and I dont want to wait until next year.


----------



## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

It's your decision, but here are several things you've mentioned:
You are new to this.
Cost is a concern.
Time and labor involved is a concern.

How about this? Overseed just one manageable area, perhaps close to the house. For the rest, just fertilize and lime. You can go ahead with the smaller overseed, and at the same time get a soil test and figure out lime and fertilizer needed. You can add in lime and fertilizer for the overseeded part after overseeding. This way you gain experience and don't overwhelm yourself.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I was at a middle school soccer fields for my son's soccer game yesterday. The fields are irrigated, but nothing else is. The playground, the baseball fields, the areas around the school are never irrigated. We are at around 4 weeks without any rain. All of the none irrigated portions are toasted.

And none of those areas will get aeration, dethatching, or overseed. They will get rain, mowing and some fertilizer. They will be green again. Just like the HOA areas or large commercial buildings.


----------



## ZimmerKen (Jul 21, 2021)

@viginiagal,
The most definite difficulty for me is the inexperience with this. Of course I want to save time and money, who doesn't, but those are wish list items. I do want to make sure I am doing everything correctly and not going to have to repeat my efforts or even worse, do more harm than good. I hadnt thought about about doing the new soil test, moving forward while waiting for the results and then doing the amendments afterwards. This sounds like a good idea.

@g-man,
I see what you mean, I lived in Cali most of my life and brown crunchy grass was the summertime norm. As soon as we'd get some water it would all turn green again without anybody doing anything to it.


----------



## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Here is a link to a discussion of large lawns:
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21728
You could send private messages to some of the people to get their input. @Overtaxed and I had a discussion earlier this year about overseeding large areas without irrigation. He may going ahead with it this fall. I think the general consensus among people with large properties is to maintain only a smaller manageable portion as "nice" grass.

My husband and I have a second home on the Rappahannock River, about 2 acres. The only thing we do there to the property is mow. It is a yearly succession of green weeds. Never seeded, fertilized, or watered. I cannot imagine trying to maintain "nice" grass over that much area. It's fine as is.


----------



## Ngilbe36 (Jul 23, 2020)

I definitely dont have as big a lot as you (~0.5 acres of grass on a ~1 acre lot) but I know it would be a huge PITA to try to commit to an overseed without irrigation on my entire lot. So far, I have overseeded 2 sections and reno'd another section totaling about 10k sq/ft over the past two years. Id go with the advice from Virginiagal and g-man and just target a small area to really knock out of the park this fall and hone your skills. Pick 2k near the house and try overseeding there with the full prep-work. In the rest of the property, just lime, fert, and broadleaf control with a pre-M. I think you will be amazed what 1lb of N per month will do to the lawn in the fall. 
Whatever you do, have fun and enjoy it. Thats why we are all here.


----------



## ZimmerKen (Jul 21, 2021)

Thanks Ngilbe36.

I agree and would not even be considering doing the whole lawn without irrigation. I do have it and I am on a well. I invested quite a bit last year to put it in and also upgraded my well pump to make sure I could water everything and still have water in the house. The area where I live is all 2.5acre lots and while many have irrigation and some nice lawns the majority are not 100% irrigated but are mowed and look decent when we have rain. I have already purchased the aerator and thatching attachments for my zero turn and also the seed I need so I feel at this point I should just go for it. If I wasnt so far in already I may change course based on advice I have gotten here. 
Since I already have everything and irrigation I am not sure what damage I could do by aerating, dethatching and putting some seed and fert down. I guess we will know in a few weeks whether it was all worthwhile.


----------



## ZimmerKen (Jul 21, 2021)

I just wanted to give an update and say thanks for all the advice last season! 
I went ahead with the plan I had and did the entire 2.5 acre yard! It was a task but I am very pleased with the results!
I ended up overseeding with Jonathon Green BB Ultra. It cost a little more but was so worth it!!
I still have some areas that need a little TLC but with what this did for my lawn last year and what I have to start with already this year, well to say I am pleased is an understatement.

Here are some pics of the before and after.


----------



## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Glad it's going well for you. The before pictures are from last summer, aren't they? Spring grass always looks better than cool season grass that has just been through July and August. Hope you continue to have success.


----------



## ZimmerKen (Jul 21, 2021)

Thanks virginiagal. I appreciate all your input on this. 
Actually the before pics are from Sept 01 and the after are from Sept 25 last year. 
My yard already looks this good, if not better, this season and I havent done anything but spray prodiamine.


----------



## Overtaxed (May 9, 2021)

Really nice results, gives me some hope of someday (after retirement) taking on the 5 or so acres I'd like to have "nice" (not golf course or top tier, but nicer than just weeds and some things that kind of resemble grass).

Is that irrigated? I live on a farm, so I actually already have the tools to do a lot of the work "at scale", but the irrigation; that's a big one. Running the pipes wouldn't be that bad, but I think I'd have to put in a pretty large pond to pull from for that much grass. And obviously, this wouldn't be in ground sprinklers, it would be big above ground cannons like farmers use for their fields.

IDK, maybe someday, but if you can get results like that without irrigation, that might change the equation for me.


----------



## ZimmerKen (Jul 21, 2021)

Overtaxed said:


> Really nice results, gives me some hope of someday (after retirement) taking on the 5 or so acres I'd like to have "nice" (not golf course or top tier, but nicer than just weeds and some things that kind of resemble grass).
> 
> Is that irrigated? I live on a farm, so I actually already have the tools to do a lot of the work "at scale", but the irrigation; that's a big one. Running the pipes wouldn't be that bad, but I think I'd have to put in a pretty large pond to pull from for that much grass. And obviously, this wouldn't be in ground sprinklers, it would be big above ground cannons like farmers use for their fields.
> 
> IDK, maybe someday, but if you can get results like that without irrigation, that might change the equation for me.


I do have irrigation, I put it in just so I could have a nice lawn. Not sure how it would have turned out without it, probably would of wasted a lot of money on seed and fert. I would have never attempted to do my whole 2.5 acres at one time if I didnt have it. I guess I would have done smaller sections at a time that I would have been able to keep moist but then that would have taken a few seasons to get it all since the overseeding window here in Minnesota would not have allowed me to do too many sections each year.

One thing I did learn was that even with irrigation the size of my yard was still a challenge to keep moist with the wind and heat. My soil is very sandy and dries out quick, add the wind and heat and it would be dry in a couple hours. I have 12 zones and by the time I went trough all of them the first zone was already drying out so it was a non stop cycle of the irrigation, except at night, for about three weeks.

Just make a plan and then research what it will really take and along the way refine your plan on what you learn. Thats what I did, I planned for quite awhile before I actually went for it.


----------



## Rucraz2 (Apr 8, 2018)

12 zones? Boy you must have a good pump. I have 16 zones on my 40k but I'm on a shared well. Your lawn looks good, I was talking with you on your other post. I've been waiting to do a reno some time in the future, but from how much better your lawn looks I might just have to suffice for now and do the same as I have been polishing this turd of a lawn I have now for a handful of yrs with not much success.


----------



## ZimmerKen (Jul 21, 2021)

I am on a private well and I upgraded the pump to a 2.0hp. It is 35gpm!! More Power!! LOL
I have 12 zones with 11, 2.2gpm heads. I still have the same water pressure in my house even when the irrigation is running.
I just bought this place 3 years ago come Aug. The lawn at this point is so much better, huge improvement from where it was. I am just going to keep working at it and at some point soon hope to just be maintaining what I have.


----------

