# Suggestions for Entry Level Push Mower (Honda vs. Toro)



## Zigzag (Apr 7, 2019)

I am new to this forum, but have enjoyed reading posts by others as I searched for an answer to my question. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find an exact answer for what I was seeking. I was hoping one of the experts in this forum could assist.

I am in the market for a new push-mower. It will only be used for relatively small areas that I cannot reach with my John Deere on our 8-acre property. It will be used to clean up rows in the garden, around trees, kennel, and a couple of culverts.
I am looking for something reliable, Light-weight (or propelled), and under $400. I've had poor luck with B&S engines and am leaning toward something with a Honda. I will not bag anything - only mulch and/or side discharge. Occasionally the grass in these areas can get a little unruly and I need something that can handle small patches of taller grass. I shopped locally this weekend and found a couple of options that I am considering. What is a more reliable brand (Toro vs Honda) on these entry-level models? Any considerations that should drive me to (or away from) one of these models?

1. Toro 20379 - FWD model with Honda GCV 160cc OHC for $349
2. Honda HRS216PKA - Push only for $349
3. Honda HRS216VKA - Same as #2, but with Variable speed control for $389.

Thank you for any input you may be able to provide.


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

I have both a Honda and Toro, but none of these models. My two cents is the Honda is better built. However I just bought it this spring, so time will tell. In terms of dependability, the Toro has a briggs engine and I have never had an issue, even though I do not care for it all that well. However, last summer the self propel broke which was a total PITA to fix. So much that I ended up sending it in for service.

One thing I noticed that you might not have seen was the Honda HRS216PKA looks like it has a max HOC of 3.5 inches, while the other two go as high as 4 inches. This might make a difference in the tall grass.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

You will find people from both sides of the discussion on here. I've heard lots of good things about the Honda's. There are people on here that don't care for the residential Toro products. I've had a couple Toros (currently have the Timemaster) and I've not had any issues with them. I definitely think you will want to go self propelled. I would think you can't go wrong with option 3.


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## Zigzag (Apr 7, 2019)

Thank you for the replies.
I went to a local Honda dealer tonight and was able to find the HRR216VKA (twin-blade microcut system) on sale for $379. That looked like another great option in this price-range and cheaper than most other local places.
My only concern on the HRR is the weight. It is listed as an operating weight of 84lbs compared to the 64lbs on the HRS216PKA. 
I will be cutting some tight areas with a lot of push and pull (forward and reverse). I am looking for something durable and lightweight that is easy to maneuver. I won't be bagging, so no added weight there.
Do you think that a 20lb weight difference would be highly noticeable when operating? Debating whether I should sacrifice some features for something that is lighter and potentially easier to maneuver in tight spaces with tall grass.


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## Zigzag (Apr 7, 2019)

Are the drive systems on these Honda Models reliable? Expensive to service if they fail? I'd hate to be stuck with a heavy push mower in a few short years if it goes.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Never having used either brand (yet), I can't directly comment, but have poured over spec sheets, videos, and looked at them in stores briefly.

I still feel like if you need the side discharge, the Toro is your only choice. Toro also includes a hose attachment for washing on some models. I'd get a Toro with a Honda engine if I could though.

But the Hondas are supposed to be awesome. All of them have the two blade system, which you either love or hate the idea of. (Not sure where I stand on that idea).


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## ram82 (Dec 19, 2018)

Zigzag said:


> Thank you for the replies.
> I went to a local Honda dealer tonight and was able to find the HRR216VKA (twin-blade microcut system) on sale for $379. That looked like another great option in this price-range and cheaper than most other local places.
> My only concern on the HRR is the weight. It is listed as an operating weight of 84lbs compared to the 64lbs on the HRS216PKA.
> I will be cutting some tight areas with a lot of push and pull (forward and reverse). I am looking for something durable and lightweight that is easy to maneuver. I won't be bagging, so no added weight there.
> Do you think that a 20lb weight difference would be highly noticeable when operating? Debating whether I should sacrifice some features for something that is lighter and potentially easier to maneuver in tight spaces with tall grass.


i think anything under 100lbs should be fine.the back wheels on the hrr hardly move when pulling back so that may be a problem in tight spaces.i think ive heard of similar complaints but haven't looked into solution


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

Go with the Honda with drive system don't look back!


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## bullet (Mar 4, 2019)

I know you have a budget, but you should look into the new Honda HRX series with the NeXite deck.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Zigzag said:


> Thank you for the replies.
> I went to a local Honda dealer tonight and was able to find the HRR216VKA (twin-blade microcut system) on sale for $379. That looked like another great option in this price-range and cheaper than most other local places.
> My only concern on the HRR is the weight. It is listed as an operating weight of 84lbs compared to the 64lbs on the HRS216PKA.
> I will be cutting some tight areas with a lot of push and pull (forward and reverse). I am looking for something durable and lightweight that is easy to maneuver. I won't be bagging, so no added weight there.
> Do you think that a 20lb weight difference would be highly noticeable when operating? Debating whether I should sacrifice some features for something that is lighter and potentially easier to maneuver in tight spaces with tall grass.


I'm not sure which model it is but when I was shopping Honda vs toro last year I saw some Honda's that have a composite deck that was quite a bit lighter. If you are concerned about the weight you might look into those. To me they felt a little too light. I went with the toro Timemaster because of the 30" cut. It is a heavy machine but the personal pace self propelled system makes it pretty easy to move around tight spaces.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

3 if it has the separate drive vs blades


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

I have a self-propelled Honda twin-blade walk-behind that I use to go where my John Deere won't safely go, or physically fit in the space available.



It has the "Smart Drive" system, and the steel deck. It cost $399.99 brand new, it works great, and runs perfectly.

I can steer it and drive it forward with only one hand, so weight is not an issue once it is in self-propelled mode. It can get a little heavy with the bag near full (it will start to wheelie) and it can loose traction on slippery ground, but nothing that cannot be handled by a grown man.



It does not side discharge, but I like that because it can slip into places without the discharge chute getting hung up on stuff. I wear a nuisance particulate face mask when I mow (keeps the pollen, dust and silica out of your respiratory tract and sinuses) so the rear bagger is not an issue. If you mulch, you just flip a switch, pull the bag off, and mulch away.



It is the HRR216K10VKAA model. It starts in one or two pulls of the cord, is as reliable as, well, a Honda, and it also can serve as a backup if something goes wrong with the other mower....

I had another Honda self-propelled, and it lasted me 20 years. I sold it to my neighbor for 1/3 of what I paid for it - it had the plastic deck, which is lighter and won't rust, but it cost $749 brand new. It had not run for like two years when my neighbor wanted to buy it - I always emptied the float bowl on the carb after running it out of gas on the last mow. I put in fresh gas, gave it one pull, and it roared to life. Honda. My neighbor bought it on the spot, and it is probably still running.

Ignore the weight issue - that Honda motor will pull it all day, strong and reliable. I have owned multiple Honda machines...have three right now...they all run real strong and last a long time. I think they really are the best.


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## Zigzag (Apr 7, 2019)

Thanks everyone for the great information. I think I'm going to go for the HRR216VKA. Decided the extra features (twin blades, drive-system, bag option) are worth sacrificing weight/maneuverability for about the same price.

Unfortunately...expecting quite a bit of snow around here tomorrow, so it may be a while before I get a chance to get out there.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

You also asked about the drive system reliability.

Never had any issues with the other (20 years) Honda. Change the oil, air filter and foam prefilter, and new spark plug, and fire it up. I think they called the plastic deck "Xenoy" back in the day. It made it lighter but cost $300 more, with the selectable drive control and adjustable throttle too.

My current (2018) Honda has no throttle and an automatic choke. It runs only at full speed and full stop. I think it will handle even tall grass if you raise the cutting height up.

You will save a lot of money on service too - I do my own wrenching, and none of my Honda machines have ever been in the repair shop....

I just saw you bought the Honda.

I am confident it will serve you well...! :thumbup:


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2019)

I think you made a good choice. Let us know how you like the self propelled system and how bad clippings get stuck on the deck and how often you have to clean it.

Only thing I don't like about that mower (Honda HRR) is the transmission/self propelled system. I don't want to propel a mower by pushing down with my thumbs, I have a big yard and I have heard people get tired of that self propelled system.

On the plus side, I know it is a durable mulching machine. The greener lawn compares this $400 mower to a $1100 Timemaster. The mulching performance on this Honda, at less than half the price, blows the timemaster out of the water.

Look from 11 mintutes to 12 minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhTVjgVXWnc

Based on my experience with Toro's, the deck will crack/break along with old wheels and the other components break before even a poorly maintained Briggs and Stratton motor will break. I've had some poorly maintained briggs mowers last over 10 years, rarely changed oil, etc. The motors are durable and easy to fix if you need to. At this point I care about which one has more torque and better cut, not whether it is a Honda or a Briggs motor. Also I care about the self propelled system and the quality of the deck.

If my toro breaks I would get another recycler or the Honda HRX217HYA, a 200cc torquey Honda motor with a nexite deck, grass clippings don't really stick to it (from what I have read), and it has a lifetime deck warranty. The deck, motor, cutting power, and self propelled system is impressive but it is a $729 21" walk behind mower.


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## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

The Timemaster looked appealing to me until the video showed the cut and the little stragglers left behind. If Honda made a 30" or 28" deck with blades that overlapped the wheels... that would be a no brained for me.


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