# 2020 Bermuda to PRG overseed thread



## Thor865

hey everyone, I know of a few of us partaking in prg overseed. if you want add what seed your using, progress pictures, notes, time to germination, etc.... for us all to have the best chance of success.

I am using Champion PRG which was SR4650, Banfield, Stamina for the cultivars. Seed down September 8th. Germination September 14th. So far its spotty so bout to throw the rest of seed out.


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## lanc0227

Thor865 said:


> hey everyone, I know of a few of us partaking in prg overseed. if you want add what seed your using, progress pictures, notes, time to germination, etc.... for us all to have the best chance of success.
> 
> I am using Champion PRG which was SR4650, Banfield, Stamina for the cultivars. Seed down September 8th. Germination September 14th. So far its spotty so bout to throw the rest of seed out.


I've been thinking about this as well. Do you know how much water it requires?


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## corneliani

Thor865 said:


> hey everyone, I know of a few of us partaking in prg overseed. if you want add what seed your using, progress pictures, notes, time to germination, etc.... for us all to have the best chance of success.
> 
> I am using Champion PRG which was SR4650, Banfield, Stamina for the cultivars. Seed down September 8th. Germination September 14th. So far its spotty so bout to throw the rest of seed out.


Any idea on the difference between the Champion and the Clubhouse blend??


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## thompwa

Thor865 said:


> hey everyone, I know of a few of us partaking in prg overseed. if you want add what seed your using, progress pictures, notes, time to germination, etc.... for us all to have the best chance of success.
> 
> I am using Champion PRG which was SR4650, Banfield, Stamina for the cultivars. Seed down September 8th. Germination September 14th. So far its spotty so bout to throw the rest of seed out.


How many lbs of seed per k did you use?


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## Thor865

thompwa said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> hey everyone, I know of a few of us partaking in prg overseed. if you want add what seed your using, progress pictures, notes, time to germination, etc.... for us all to have the best chance of success.
> 
> I am using Champion PRG which was SR4650, Banfield, Stamina for the cultivars. Seed down September 8th. Germination September 14th. So far its spotty so bout to throw the rest of seed out.
> 
> 
> 
> How many lbs of seed per k did you use?
Click to expand...

20lb


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## Dangerlawn

I'm using the same cultivars of the Champion GQ as @Thor865. I've had the seed since May since I was afraid it might sell out.

It's my first time doing this, so I decided to go all out and hit it hard with Tnex at 1oz per M, scalp to 0.2 inches and pickup all clippings, seed at 15 pounds per M, slit seed after, top dress with peat moss, and water like crazy.

I'm learning now this was overkill, but it was an interesting learning experience all the same.

I got to see that Tnex at such a high rate doesn't show bronzing until about a week after. I also learned how to operate a slit seeder and get more experience with watering new grass. Also too much peat moss is a bad thing and can slow germination down. Also the grass can take mowing with a Greensmaster at the same time it can handle a manual reel. And don't be afraid to step on the grass, it's not as fragile as we think.

I had germination around day 7-8 and I was mowing on day 10. It's filling in nicely and I'm very happy so far. I've only had to pull one weed so far. I did not use tenacity even though I have some on hand.

I'll throw a picture up once I get full coverage. You can check my journal for progress photos.


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## Vandy

Dangerlawn said:


> I'm using the same cultivars of the Champion GQ as @Thor865. I've had the seed since May since I was afraid it might sell out.
> 
> It's my first time doing this, so I decided to go all out and hit it hard with Tnex at 1oz per M, scalp to 0.2 inches and pickup all clippings, seed at 15 pounds per M, slit seed after, top dress with peat moss, and water like crazy.
> 
> I'm learning now this was overkill, but it was an interesting learning experience all the same.
> 
> I got to see that Tnex at such a high rate doesn't show bronzing until about a week after. I also learned how to operate a slit seeder and get more experience with watering new grass. Also too much peat moss is a bad thing and can slow germination down. Also the grass can take mowing with a Greensmaster at the same time it can handle a manual reel. And don't be afraid to step on the grass, it's not as fragile as we think.
> 
> I had germination around day 7-8 and I was mowing on day 10. It's filling in nicely and I'm very happy so far. I've only had to pull one weed so far. I did not use tenacity even though I have some on hand.
> 
> I'll throw a picture up once I get full coverage. You can check my journal for progress photos.


If you could do it over, how much t-nex would you use? Just purchased my t nex.


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## conroyz28

This will be my 1st time doing so also. Im in Dallas area so temps are still in 90's. Just ordered 100lbs to cover 10k sq feet. 
Planning on scalping with my GM 1600 to under .5 inch or little lower. Putting down the seed and then water like crazy.

My questions are:
Pre-Emerg?? Do i wait for the PRG to germinate and then throw down some Pre-Emerg ?

I have never used T-Nex but have some on hand. Should I throw some down a week of so before I overseed? To slow the growth of bermuda?

Any help would be great as like I said. I have never done this before and have a big yard...

Appreciate it


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## Dangerlawn

Vandy said:


> Dangerlawn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using the same cultivars of the Champion GQ as @Thor865. I've had the seed since May since I was afraid it might sell out.
> 
> It's my first time doing this, so I decided to go all out and hit it hard with Tnex at 1oz per M, scalp to 0.2 inches and pickup all clippings, seed at 15 pounds per M, slit seed after, top dress with peat moss, and water like crazy.
> 
> I'm learning now this was overkill, but it was an interesting learning experience all the same.
> 
> I got to see that Tnex at such a high rate doesn't show bronzing until about a week after. I also learned how to operate a slit seeder and get more experience with watering new grass. Also too much peat moss is a bad thing and can slow germination down. Also the grass can take mowing with a Greensmaster at the same time it can handle a manual reel. And don't be afraid to step on the grass, it's not as fragile as we think.
> 
> I had germination around day 7-8 and I was mowing on day 10. It's filling in nicely and I'm very happy so far. I've only had to pull one weed so far. I did not use tenacity even though I have some on hand.
> 
> I'll throw a picture up once I get full coverage. You can check my journal for progress photos.
> 
> 
> 
> If you could do it over, how much t-nex would you use? Just purchased my t nex.
Click to expand...

I'd do the same rate. The goal is to stop the growth for about a month while the PRG fills. It shouldn't hurt the Bermuda enough to matter.


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## Dangerlawn

conroyz28 said:


> This will be my 1st time doing so also. Im in Dallas area so temps are still in 90's. Just ordered 100lbs to cover 10k sq feet.
> Planning on scalping with my GM 1600 to under .5 inch or little lower. Putting down the seed and then water like crazy.
> 
> My questions are:
> Pre-Emerg?? Do i wait for the PRG to germinate and then throw down some Pre-Emerg ?
> 
> I have never used T-Nex but have some on hand. Should I throw some down a week of so before I overseed? To slow the growth of bermuda?
> 
> Any help would be great as like I said. I have never done this before and have a big yard...
> 
> Appreciate it


The prodiamine label says to wait at least 60 days after seeding before applying. I wouldn't go against the label on this one. If you get weeds just pick them by hand until a post emergent is possible.

Yes Tnex will slow the Bermuda and let the PRG come in easier. It's not a "must do" but you might as well do it if you can and your comfortable making a good broadcast application.


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## conroyz28

Dangerlawn said:


> conroyz28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This will be my 1st time doing so also. Im in Dallas area so temps are still in 90's. Just ordered 100lbs to cover 10k sq feet.
> Planning on scalping with my GM 1600 to under .5 inch or little lower. Putting down the seed and then water like crazy.
> 
> My questions are:
> Pre-Emerg?? Do i wait for the PRG to germinate and then throw down some Pre-Emerg ?
> 
> I have never used T-Nex but have some on hand. Should I throw some down a week of so before I overseed? To slow the growth of bermuda?
> 
> Any help would be great as like I said. I have never done this before and have a big yard...
> 
> Appreciate it
> 
> 
> 
> The prodiamine label says to wait at least 60 days after seeding before applying. I wouldn't go against the label on this one. If you get weeds just pick them by hand until a post emergent is possible.
> 
> Yes Tnex will slow the Bermuda and let the PRG come in easier. It's not a "must do" but you might as well do it if you can and your comfortable making a good broadcast application.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a plan. Thanks
Also the seed I went with was Champion GQ I think is what it was called.


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## dmouw

what is determining when you guys scalp and seed? temps or just when ever you can do it?


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## ryboturf

I got a 50lb. bag of GCI Turf PRG. That's Passport, Plateau, and Seabiscuit varieties.

I'm itching to get it put down. I haven't overseeded in several years and I'm excited. Biggest reason for the project is to cover bare ground in backyard to prevent erosion. Will likely sod next year.


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## Thisguy

Champion GQ worked well for me last year


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## crstude

I'm getting in on the action this year as well for the first time. I plan to apply Tnex. Wait a few days, verticut, seed (I have Champion GQ PRG), rake and roll it in. Milorganite at the beginning at .5#/m. 13-13-13 after the first few mows pretty heavy over 1.5#/m. I'm only doing my 4ksqft. backyard. Also plan to get a preventative fungicide app in during seeding.


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## Thor865

9 days post seed first mow


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## Thor865

ryboturf said:


> I got a 50lb. bag of GCI Turf PRG. That's Passport, Plateau, and Seabiscuit varieties.
> 
> I'm itching to get it put down. I haven't overseeded in several years and I'm excited. Biggest reason for the project is to cover bare ground in backyard to prevent erosion. Will likely sod next year.


I was intrigued by Pete's offering. Let us know how it goes.


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## rjw0283

@Thor865 nice! I got some champion on order, it's currently backordered. I am not seeding for a month, waiting for temps to cool more and my pre-e app from June 5th to wear a little more. Oct 20th or so should be good. Prodiamine @ the lower rate so it should be safe.


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## OKCBermuda

Started my overseeding today with a heavy PGR app. Busy weekend ahead scalping and verticutting. Backyard is going to be a bluemuda experiment with the front PRG


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## Dangerlawn

dmouw said:


> what is determining when you guys scalp and seed? temps or just when ever you can do it?


My local extension office advises the third week of September for seeding cool season grasses Amarillo Texas. I went early because the weather looked good. If I had heavy rain in the forecast I would not have done it.


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## OState_Patriot

How long to wait after application of the TNEX before scalp and overseed?


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## Ware

OState_Patriot said:


> How long to wait after application of the TNEX before scalp and overseed?


From the T-Nex Label:



> BERMUDAGRASS OVERSEEDING
> In addition to normal turfgrass cultural practices, Quali-Pro® T-Nex® applications to Bermudagrass enhance the
> establishment of cool-season turfgrasses and help ensure new seedling vigor and growth, will result in fewer
> clippings, and less maintenance traffic on new seedlings. Since Quali-Pro® T-Nex® is foliarly absorbed,
> germination and seedling growth is unaffected by Quali-Pro® T-Nex®.
> 
> Apply Quali-Pro® T-Nex® 1 to 5 days before seeding and before verticutting, scalping, spiking, or other similar
> operations to the bermudagrass.
> 
> Aggressive application rates of Quali-Pro® T-Nex® may cause temporary initial discoloration of turfgrass. To avoid
> discoloration, use the normal seeding rates for your area and turf setting (lawn, fairway, etc.). The success of
> overseeding will depend on a number of factors including growing conditions, fertilization, rainfall, and other
> agronomic and environmental conditions. See the APPLICATION RATE TABLE for maintenance application
> rates.


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## pherrley

Is winter over-seeding specific to bermuda or can you do it with any grass type as long as you kill the rye in the spring? I've read articles saying only over-seed bermuda, but now I'm thinking that is only if you don't kill it in the spring.


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## bhutchinson87

Just picked up my seed from Winfield and they have a pretty good blend this year. I really like how they coat their seed with plant growth stimulant.


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## Thor865

bhutchinson87 said:


> Just picked up my seed from Winfield and they have a pretty good blend this year. I really like how they coat their seed with plant growth stimulant.


Excellent varieties. Is that an online source or local?


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## bhutchinson87

Thor865 said:


> Excellent varieties. Is that an online source or local?


I picked it up locally. Not sure if they have one around your area, or if they will deliver, but here is their website.

WinField United


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## Meatpopsickle

Anyone able to chime in from the Phoenix Metro area?

But of conundrum maybe some folks could chime in here with experience. Golf courses here in the valley post their overseeding schedules and it appears many have already started despite day time temps still in the 100s. I have already stopped any fertilizing for about 6 weeks now and have significantly reduced watering to about 1/4" a week. Have a bag of Barenburg turf star rpr ready to go. I have the opportunity to overseed this weekend. The next possible time I could would be 10/23. I would hit with tnex, verticut, scalp, seed and top dress.

Current weather: 100s/mid 70s
Forecasted weather 10/23: mid 80s/ low 60s

My fears are the following:
1. Too soon and the heat of the day could zap seedlings. Unless you all think sufficient water will prevent this. 
2. Bermuda isn't dormant and could outcompete the PRG
3. Weather late in October could just as well be very cold, combined with reduced daylight and may have issues with stunted germination.

If you were in my situation would you give it a shot now or wait until late October?


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## Hapa512

Meatpopsickle said:


> Anyone able to chime in from the Phoenix Metro area?
> 
> But of conundrum maybe some folks could chime in here with experience. Golf courses here in the valley post their overseeding schedules and it appears many have already started despite day time temps still in the 100s. I have already stopped any fertilizing for about 6 weeks now and have significantly reduced watering to about 1/4" a week. Have a bag of Barenburg turf star rpr ready to go. I have the opportunity to overseed this weekend. The next possible time I could would be 10/23. I would hit with tnex, verticut, scalp, seed and top dress.
> 
> Current weather: 100s/mid 70s
> Forecasted weather 10/23: mid 80s/ low 60s
> 
> My fears are the following:
> 1. Too soon and the heat of the day could zap seedlings. Unless you all think sufficient water will prevent this.
> 2. Bermuda isn't dormant and could outcompete the PRG
> 3. Weather late in October could just as well be very cold, combined with reduced daylight and may have issues with stunted germination.
> 
> If you were in my situation would you give it a shot now or wait until late October?


I'm in Austin Texas and planning on overseeding with PRG Champion GQ. I'm in the same boat and I'm waiting for my soil temps to drop to the high 50's-60's area before I attempt to overseed. For now I'm just cutting it short and will start hitting it with the T-nexx probably sometime around the first or second week of October. I hoping to have seed down the last week of October or possible sooner ? It seems like its going to be a timing game for best results ? In either case, I would rather wait till the temps are right then waste good grass seed. I bought my 75lbs of grass seed a month ago...lol Keeping it in my climate controlled house and not in the garage....


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## PhxHeat

Meatpopsickle said:


> Anyone able to chime in from the Phoenix Metro area?


I'm in North Central Phoenix. My opinion, temperature wise it is still too early. I'm watering and fertilizing til I see some consistent below 100° temps. Then I'll drop off some of the fertilizer. I'll start looking at getting my rye down when overnight low temps are hitting 60-65 for at least a week.

Oct 23 will be fine if it actually cools down. Based on temps, I typically do my rye mid Oct to the end of the 1st week of Nov.. I've gone as late as Thanksgiving weekend and it has turned out great.

Your steps sound good.
As far as top dress .... if you are talking manure over the seed, I'm not a fan and frankly it's not necessary. But there are those who swear by it, to each their own.


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## mein1080p

In the DFW area. Just seeded this past Thursday (9/17). Saw that nighttime temps had fallen into low 60s. 
Started off 1st week of Sept scalping from 0.7 to 0.4 then applying PGR (1.5oz/M). 
On Wed (9/16) decided to scalp lower for proper seed to soil contact.
Threw the rye down at 10 lbs/M using a Scott's drop spreader set at 10 making both vertical & horizontal passes. 
Set the rachio to water every 8 hrs for the 1st 2 weeks. 
So far so good. Though I'm worried about the vanity strips that have drip & not sprinkler heads. Hoping that's sufficient cos I'm not watering manually every 8 hrs lol.


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## Thor865

mein1080p said:


> In the DFW area. Just seeded this past Thursday (9/17). Saw that nighttime temps had fallen into low 60s.
> Started off 1st week of Sept scalping from 0.7 to 0.4 then applying PGR (1.5oz/M).
> On Wed (9/16) decided to scalp lower for proper seed to soil contact.
> Threw the rye down at 10 lbs/M using a Scott's drop spreader set at 10 making both vertical & horizontal passes.
> Set the rachio to water every 8 hrs for the 1st 2 weeks.
> So far so good. Though I'm worried about the vanity strips that have drip & not sprinkler heads. Hoping that's sufficient cos I'm not watering manually every 8 hrs lol.


You may consider adjusting that watering to less time more frequently. I ran mine every 2-3 hours 10min each zone using mp rotators. Goal is to keep moist not flood it.


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## Ware

+1, I watered both of my overseeds every 2-3 hours during the day to keep the surface soil moist.


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## drfous

I've been over seeding bermuda for probably 25 years. I'm no expert, but it comes up every year. So you know this isn't rocket science.

Don't over think it. Seed, some top dressing (optional, I use sphangnum moss). You want to rake it in to get the seeds down near dirt. Water 4 times a day for 5 min (just keep it damp - not soggy). Gradually cut back as it germinates and grows in.

A couple of weeks later you'll have PRG.

I want a year round lawn. We spend more time outside in the winter (desert). Given the relatively short growing season of bermuda, over seeding is the way to go.


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## Dangerlawn

Here's where I am after two weeks (minus three days days for the main section)



I don't think I'll be competing with Thor, but I'm really happy I did it. I do think I got a bit carried away with the watering because some of my peat moss is turning green. At this point I'm dialing back the water to deeper and less frequently.


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## Jjones45

I put down barenburg rpr last Saturday. Scalped, seeded, and watered. No peat moss or fert. First mow was today with my cal trimmer @ 1- 7/8in.


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## Trippel24

mein1080p said:


> In the DFW area. Just seeded this past Thursday (9/17). Saw that nighttime temps had fallen into low 60s.
> Started off 1st week of Sept scalping from 0.7 to 0.4 then applying PGR (1.5oz/M).
> On Wed (9/16) decided to scalp lower for proper seed to soil contact.
> Threw the rye down at 10 lbs/M using a Scott's drop spreader set at 10 making both vertical & horizontal passes.
> Set the rachio to water every 8 hrs for the 1st 2 weeks.
> So far so good. Though I'm worried about the vanity strips that have drip & not sprinkler heads. Hoping that's sufficient cos I'm not watering manually every 8 hrs lol.


This is the seed I use. Soil temps are still 83 degrees and my Bermuda is still doing really well, so I'll wait a few more weeks.


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## OKCBermuda

Seed down at 10lbs/k and friendly orange flag reminder for the neighborhood kids that flock to the house-Stay off my lawn 😂 Scalp is 3/8" and verticut with SunJoe on 5 setting. .75oz/k PGR, 1-1-1 Fert


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## Vandy

Seed down today in central South Carolina. Looks like cool temps the next few days so I figured it was go time. Fingers crossed.

Scalped as low as my rotary would go and bagged clippings. Did two passes.

Seeded champion GQ at 15#/k. Lightly raked and threw down Scott's disease ex, rgs, tnex, and greenepop. Watering 4 times a day starting at 8am running every 3 hours for 10mins/zone till 5pm.


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## AllisonN

Scalped to 3/8. 100 pounds of champion gq. We will see what happens!!


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## jbow03

I purchased some T-Nex earlier in the year but haven't applied it to the yard yet, just wanted to push growth and establishment this year and chickened out a bit!

That being said, is pre-PRG an ok time to do my first-ever application? Looking at the rates folks are using here I'd probably go in at 0.75 oz/M.


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## Ware

jbow03 said:


> I purchased some T-Nex earlier in the year but haven't applied it to the yard yet, just wanted to push growth and establishment this year and chickened out a bit!
> 
> That being said, is pre-PRG an ok time to do my first-ever application? Looking at the rates folks are using here I'd probably go in at 0.75 oz/M.


I think it would be a great time to start.

0.75 oz/M may be a little heavy though - but I don't know your circumstances.


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## jbow03

@Ware good point. Tiff 419 lawn, so 0.38 oz/M will be my app.

Just waiting on the soil temps to get lower!


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## Jmvegas21

Was not thinking and applied Barricade end of August on my Bermuda with plans to lay PRG. I understand it will reduce germination if not entirely (depending on Barricade coverage) but could I scarify/dethatch/rough up soil to get seed to germinate? I guess my understanding is pre-m creates a soil barrier so if I can break that up I have a chance of seed germination or depending on rye application would of still germinate? Haaalp!


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## Ware

Jmvegas21 said:


> Was not thinking and applied Barricade end of August on my Bermuda with plans to lay PRG. I understand it will reduce germination if not entirely (depending on Barricade coverage) but could I scarify/dethatch/rough up soil to get seed to germinate? I guess my understanding is pre-m creates a soil barrier so if I can break that up I have a chance of seed germination or depending on rye application would of still germinate? Haaalp!


I probably wouldn't attempt it - I really think it would be a waste of PRG seed. I don't think of the pre-e barrier as a membrane that can be punctured. I see it as AI incorporated into the surface soil profile that will kill germinating seeds. Scarifying may move it around some, but I don't think you would achieve acceptable germination rates. I could be wrong though.


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## Jmvegas21

Ware said:


> I probably wouldn't attempt it - I really think it would be a waste of PRG seed. I don't think of the pre-e barrier as a membrane that can be punctured. I see it as AI incorporated into the surface soil profile that will kill germinating seeds. Scarifying may move it around some, but I don't think you would achieve acceptable germination rates. I could be wrong though.


Yeah the reason I felt it could be _doable_ was from seeing some YouTube videos of folks who said they did pre-m, but had some trouble spots and used a garden weasel/hand cultivator to break up soil and it worked. So, I wasn't sure if I dethatched/scarified yard to create some slits in ground or break it up some would help promote some growth of the PRG.


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## rjw0283

jbow03 said:


> I purchased some T-Nex earlier in the year but haven't applied it to the yard yet, just wanted to push growth and establishment this year and chickened out a bit!
> 
> That being said, is pre-PRG an ok time to do my first-ever application? Looking at the rates folks are using here I'd probably go in at 0.75 oz/M.


The first application is generally lower. But being your stunting it for PRG to grow, your not worried much about bronzing. I get good results at .25 on whatever bermuda I have in the front. I believe it's a common, but .25 does it just fine. I'd go lower than .75 on first application.


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## Ren

So we still have temps in the 100s for the next couple weeks. Night time in the 60s. How late can i wait to put down PRG? My Bermuda still growing like mad and doesn't really shut off till way into October. Wanted to overseed my front yard at least but i dont have any of the supplies or a plan yet.


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## Wfrobinette

Ren said:


> So we still have temps in the 100s for the next couple weeks. Night time in the 60s. How late can i wait to put down PRG? My Bermuda still growing like mad and doesn't really shut off till way into October. Wanted to overseed my front yard at least but i dont have any of the supplies or a plan yet.


http://www.ryegrasses.com/info/whentoplant.html#.X2kN8T-SmUk

Wait! This stuff will germinate when daytime temps are above 50 and will fry at 100 degrees. shoot for when bermuda is going dormant or day time temps will be 60 to mid 70's.


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## Ren

Wfrobinette said:


> Ren said:
> 
> 
> 
> So we still have temps in the 100s for the next couple weeks. Night time in the 60s. How late can i wait to put down PRG? My Bermuda still growing like mad and doesn't really shut off till way into October. Wanted to overseed my front yard at least but i dont have any of the supplies or a plan yet.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ryegrasses.com/info/whentoplant.html#.X2kN8T-SmUk
> 
> Wait! This stuff will germinate when daytime temps are above 50 and will fry at 100 degrees. shoot for when bermuda is going dormant or day time temps will be 60 to mid 70's.
Click to expand...

 :thumbup: Perfect, i came on here today thinking about overseed planning and then kinda freaked out a bit when i saw everybody already got started. I was thinking early/ mid November scalp and seed. Its still dumb hot here and we dont really get a "freeze" maybe a couple nights in the deepest part of "winter" touch high 20's low 30's but not for very long. Its just now getting into the 60's at night this week.


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## jjsmitty

What HOC are you all at on PRG?


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## Thor865

jjsmitty said:


> What HOC are you all at on PRG?


.75

Doesn't really matter what hoc your at, just that your Bermuda is below that. I kept my Bermuda at .35 and scalped it down below that prior to overseed to ensure it doesn't get up that high


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## OKCBermuda

Day 2 of overseeding project was digging up and repairing a leaking sprinkler line. Spread some additional seed over the top after I finished up and hoping for no more hiccups 🤦🏼‍♂️


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## mein1080p

Day 5 update : Noticed the chilly weather + constant drizzle the past 2 days has really got my rye sprouting. Light green patches would be the rye coming in


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## Benwag

Put down seed yesterday, got sidetracked while watering today and left the sprinklers on for I don't even know how long. Needless to say there Are quite a few puddles and the ground is saturated. I have some extra seed I didn't put down in case there were thin areas. How will this one time overwatering impact my germination, doesn't appear to have moved much seed around but I'm concerned about the seed sitting in water right now.


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## lanc0227

Would it hold up once established with a dog on it? Wanting to do it in the back but have a dog.

Also, I'm in Dallas. What if I waited until mid November?


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## Thor865

@Benwag youll be fine just wait a bit for your next cycle

@lanc0227 ifs used on sports fields round the world. Prg is wear tolerant, not gonna say to the extent Bermuda is but it can handle some dog traffic (pee spots another story)


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## crstude

I'm a bit nervous since I put seed out Sunday. It's been perfect weather this week. Now I see Friday coming in over 90 for a couple days. Do I need to just keep the water flowing and hope it pushes through or should I just go ahead and plan on picking up more seed assuming it will be toast?


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## razorback2020

Thisguy said:


> Champion GQ worked well for me last year
> 
> I have never overseeded. How much mowing is required in the winter? I live in Oklahoma.


----------



## thompwa

I hit my bermuda with a full shot of plant growth regulator on Sunday and worked the HOC down from 3/4" to just under 1/2" I'm beginning to see a little dirt below. Thinking I may try to go one notch lower. What HOC is everyone cutting their bermuda at prior to overseeding the PRG?


----------



## coreystooks

@thompwa I took mine down to 0.375 from 0.55. I plan to maintain the PRG around 0.6-0.75.


----------



## ryboturf

Anyone spraying Humic/Kelp after seeding? I put mine down last Saturday and should be getting a stand soon.


----------



## drfous

crstude said:


> I'm a bit nervous since I put seed out Sunday. It's been perfect weather this week. Now I see Friday coming in over 90 for a couple days. Do I need to just keep the water flowing and hope it pushes through or should I just go ahead and plan on picking up more seed assuming it will be toast?


Keep it damp with a few hits per day.

Golf courses here are starting to overseed and it's 105.


----------



## PhxHeat

@drfous ... They must be putting down some magic jack and the bean stalk rye. The next 7 days are 105°-108° highs and mid 70°s "lows". My bermuda is loving it right now. I'm thinking end of October for rye unless we get a "cold" snap roll in.


----------



## PhxHeat

break out your jackets Phoenix :lol: forecast change for the next 10 days ... currently showing 106° today, then slowly dropping to 101°. Seasonal avg normally this time of year is 97° for the high.

Low to mid 80°s for a high and overnights around 60°-65° imo makes for great transition to rye weather. This year with all the 110°s to 115°s and up, I'm ready for some cooler temps and rye.


----------



## drfous

My plan was Oct 1. I'm going to stick to that. Have guests coming thx giving. I'd like to have well established by then.


----------



## corneliani

I'm going with a Mountain View Seeds PRG blend of Apple 3GL, Black Cat II, and Black Pearl here in Atlanta. Fine leaf blend with dark characteristics, per NTEP trials. Excited to see how my first ever overseed goes!


----------



## PhxHeat

drfous said:


> My plan was Oct 1. I'm going to stick to that. Have guests coming thx giving. I'd like to have well established by then.


It's a bit too warm imo, but it'll germinate, and the heat will cause some loss ... but as a whole, the sprouts should do ok with a lil extra water while it's hot. You'll probably be a week or two into mowing as I get started. Maybe you can facilitate the cooler weather overlords to bring in the rye season.


----------



## zcabe

SiteOne called today to say my Seed arrived. Core aerated tonight to prepare for Overseeding on Saturday. Also ran my Tru-Cut with catcher over to chop up cores but didn't get any pictures as I finished in the dark. Also posting pictures from my hard scalp last Saturday.


----------



## Romangorilla

For everyone that put down seed this past weekend(9/19,9/20), do you have any germination yet?
On Friday (9/18), i applied PGR at a heavy rate.
Sunday (9/20), I scalped down to .4 and catched clippings. Then put seed down at 10lb per M, raked lightly, rolled the yard with GM1000, then sprayed RGS. I have been watering enough to keep it moist throughout the day.
I'm wondering if I should have applied peat moss to help seed germinate.


----------



## Vandy

Romangorilla said:


> For everyone that put down seed this past weekend(9/19,9/20), do you have any germination yet?
> On Friday (9/18), i applied PGR at a heavy rate.
> Sunday (9/20), I scalped down to .4 and catched clippings. Then put seed down at 10lb per M, raked lightly, rolled the yard with GM1000, then sprayed RGS. I have been watering enough to keep it moist throughout the day.
> I'm wondering if I should have applied peat moss to help seed germinate.


I threw seed down Saturday and I have some germination going on. It's raining now but I'll provide pictures later to show you what it's looking like.


----------



## wking

Romangorilla said:


> For everyone that put down seed this past weekend(9/19,9/20), do you have any germination yet?
> On Friday (9/18), i applied PGR at a heavy rate.
> Sunday (9/20), I scalped down to .4 and catched clippings. Then put seed down at 10lb per M, raked lightly, rolled the yard with GM1000, then sprayed RGS. I have been watering enough to keep it moist throughout the day.
> I'm wondering if I should have applied peat moss to help seed germinate.


Mine just started popping last night. Go out at night with a flashlight or phone light. Put it horizontal to ground instead of straight down, makes it a lot easier to see if you have germination in early stages.


----------



## AllisonN

Seeded late Saturday and it's slowly germinating in spots, hopefully more towards the end of the weekend


----------



## Thisguy

Three seed down late Sunday. Plenty of germination happening


----------



## Vandy

6 DAS.


----------



## Thisguy

I have some of my newly germinated PRG turning a pinkish purple color. Any clue as to what the issue is?


----------



## zcabe

Spread my seed and starter fert today. Also, sprayed some of this Myco-Sol I picked up not too long ago. Seems to be some great stuff for very inexpensive.


----------



## Romangorilla

I had germination after about 5 days.
Once germinated, it takes off.
But I didn't get the coverage I was hoping for.
The picture below represents about how much germination I got throughout the entire yard so far.
I understand it will tiller out and thicken up.

I'll give it until Monday, to decide whether I need to re-seed. Perhaps this time I will use a light top dressing of peat moss to ensure better germination.


----------



## coreystooks

@Romangorilla I'm wondering the same thing as the thinner spots of mine look like your picture.


----------



## Thor865

Romangorilla said:


> I had germination after about 5 days.
> Once germinated, it takes off.
> But I didn't get the coverage I was hoping for.
> The picture below represents about how much germination I got throughout the entire yard so far.
> I understand it will tiller out and thicken up.
> 
> I'll give it until Monday, to decide whether I need to re-seed. Perhaps this time I will use a light top dressing of peat moss to ensure better germination.


Did you verticut before seeding?


----------



## Romangorilla

Thor865 said:


> Romangorilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had germination after about 5 days.
> Once germinated, it takes off.
> But I didn't get the coverage I was hoping for.
> The picture below represents about how much germination I got throughout the entire yard so far.
> I understand it will tiller out and thicken up.
> 
> I'll give it until Monday, to decide whether I need to re-seed. Perhaps this time I will use a light top dressing of peat moss to ensure better germination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you verticut before seeding?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately no. I don't have a verticutter.
And the closest place to me that has an over seeder For rent is HD that is about 45 mins away and always sold out this time of year.


----------



## Thor865

Romangorilla said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Romangorilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had germination after about 5 days.
> Once germinated, it takes off.
> But I didn't get the coverage I was hoping for.
> The picture below represents about how much germination I got throughout the entire yard so far.
> I understand it will tiller out and thicken up.
> 
> I'll give it until Monday, to decide whether I need to re-seed. Perhaps this time I will use a light top dressing of peat moss to ensure better germination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you verticut before seeding?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately no. I don't have a verticutter.
> And the closest place to me that has an over seeder For rent is HD that is about 45 mins away and always sold out this time of year.
Click to expand...

That may be your dilemma. Harder for seed to get threw dense canopy, and if it does germinate hard to not be smothered out by the Bermuda


----------



## Romangorilla

Thor865 said:


> Romangorilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you verticut before seeding?
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately no. I don't have a verticutter.
> And the closest place to me that has an over seeder For rent is HD that is about 45 mins away and always sold out this time of year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That may be your dilemma. Harder for seed to get threw dense canopy, and if it does germinate hard to not be smothered out by the Bermuda
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think you're right.
My only answer will be more seed, and a light top dressing of peat moss.
@Thor865 , how long after germination did you start mowing?


----------



## azdrugdoc

For the Phoenix-area folks, where are you buying your seed? Have about 10k sqft to tackle immediately after Halloween. Thanks!


----------



## Thor865

Romangorilla said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Romangorilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately no. I don't have a verticutter.
> And the closest place to me that has an over seeder For rent is HD that is about 45 mins away and always sold out this time of year.
> 
> 
> 
> That may be your dilemma. Harder for seed to get threw dense canopy, and if it does germinate hard to not be smothered out by the Bermuda
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, I think you're right.
> My only answer will be more seed, and a light top dressing of peat moss.
> @Thor865 , how long after germination did you start mowing?
Click to expand...

First mow was 9 days. Today was 18 days


----------



## PhxHeat

azdrugdoc said:


> For the Phoenix-area folks, where are you buying your seed? Have about 10k sqft to tackle immediately after Halloween. Thanks!


Sprinkler World.

Quality perennial rye.
3 variety blend.
97% seed.
90% min germination rate.
weed seed .01 per 25 lb.
25 lb bag around $33
50 lb bag around $55

Buy before it cools down, it disappears quick once the landscapers go into full swing.


----------



## Dangerlawn

Three weeks out from seeding and could not be happier with this ryegrass


----------



## wking

When was everyone's first mow?


----------



## Vandy

wking said:


> When was everyone's first mow?


I just mowed on day 9 with a manual reel. Some of my PRG was already pushing 2-2.5 inches high. Used a manual reel.


----------



## wking

I'm on day 8 and it is close to 3inches. Rain in the forecast this week, but only have a GM 1000. Might just wait a few days and let her grow in some more. Likely have to cut at 1 inch, which will break the 1/3 rule.


----------



## zcabe

Dangerlawn said:


> Three weeks out from seeding and could not be happier with this ryegrass


Looks like you got great coverage. Good job!


----------



## rjw0283

I got an e-mail a few days ago from hancock seed. The champion seed I ordered is back in stock and it's on it's way. I plan on seeding my back yard as soon as I get it, and I'll wait a few more weeks for the front since I applied Prodiamine in June at the lower rate. I want to give it at least 4 months. I'm thinking I should be good. We'll see.


----------



## OKCBermuda

PRG Fail 😂😂😂

Lesson learned-make sure your edge guard on the spreader is fully locked out of the way 🤦🏼‍♂️ Also-don't rush your seeding and not do multiple passes. PRG is germinating really well-just have a few lines of significant growth. I'll mow this week and then go back in with some additional seed to even things out as it all grows in. Hope someone learns from my mistakes that we all know shouldn't happen-but did.


----------



## Thor865

ATV said:


> PRG Fail 😂😂😂
> 
> Lesson learned-make sure your edge guard on the spreader is fully locked out of the way 🤦🏼‍♂️ Also-don't rush your seeding and not do multiple passes. PRG is germinating really well-just have a few lines of significant growth. I'll mow this week and then go back in with some additional seed to even things out as it all grows in. Hope someone learns from my mistakes that we all know shouldn't happen-but did.


You trying to compete with @Reel Low Dad dirt stripes


----------



## Kdaves12

Thisguy said:


> Champion GQ worked well for me last year


HOLY COW


----------



## Kdaves12

I just had 3 yds of top dressing material delivered to the house (2 parts masonry sand // 1 part dairy manure). 
I plan on getting that done by end of this week.

10/3 - I will put down HumiChar & PGF Balanced 10-10-10. No T-Nex for me; we'll see if that was a mistake down the road..
10/10 - Overseeding w/ SS9000 PRG Blend @ 7lbs/k leaving a few lbs remaining if bare spots need some extra attention. Overseeding will be followed by a light layer of PGF Complete, maybe some root hume as well.

MP Rotators will be set to go off @ 10am/2pm/6pm for 5 min per station. I'll keep that schedule for 2-3 weeks during germination, check status, and will hopefully go back to deep watering every 3-4 days.

I did a Bermuda reno once COVID hit, and I had an absolute blast this summer. Can't wait to try this now.

Fingers Crossed!


----------



## mein1080p

Day 11. You guys think it's time for its first haircut? Or do I wait till it fills up more?


----------



## Thor865

mein1080p said:


> Day 11. You guys think it's time for its first haircut? Or do I wait till it fills up more?


I usually do first mow when it's all between 1.5-2" or between day 10-14.


----------



## rjw0283

ATV said:


> PRG Fail 😂😂😂
> 
> Lesson learned-make sure your edge guard on the spreader is fully locked out of the way 🤦🏼‍♂️ Also-don't rush your seeding and not do multiple passes. PRG is germinating really well-just have a few lines of significant growth. I'll mow this week and then go back in with some additional seed to even things out as it all grows in. Hope someone learns from my mistakes that we all know shouldn't happen-but did.


I ended up buying a drop spreader, reading this confirms I made the right choice.


----------



## OKCBermuda

Day 10, cut it back down to 1/2" and re-seeded spots with Scotts Whiz to correct my first mistakes should be back on track!


----------



## coreystooks

How much N are you guys putting down when you fertilize the rye? Planning on just doing 10-10-10 at around the 3 week mark but can't decide how much to go with.


----------



## DFWLawnNut

Ignore me, forgot I put prodiamine down 3 weeks ago... Ugh!


----------



## corneliani

coreystooks said:


> How much N are you guys putting down when you fertilize the rye? Planning on just doing 10-10-10 at around the 3 week mark but can't decide how much to go with.


I put down 4# of a Lesco 18-20-3 starter fert at seeding and plan to ride with this app through the winter. I don't really want it to grow out of control.


----------



## Dangerlawn

coreystooks said:


> How much N are you guys putting down when you fertilize the rye? Planning on just doing 10-10-10 at around the 3 week mark but can't decide how much to go with.


I'm doing 0.5 pounds N weekly with Ammonium sulfate and xgrn 8-1-8, alternating. I want to mow as much as possible so I'm getting a bit crazy with the N.

Looking good at around week 3


----------



## Art James

I'm located in San Antonio TX with a hybrid Bermuda lawn. I want to give PRG a go this year for the first time. Looking for recommendations on see that won't break the bank. I only have about 1000sqft to cover. What does everyone recommend that's not to expensive and where to purchase.


----------



## Benwag

@Art James Johnston Seed company has a 10lb bag of champion GQ which would be good for your size lawn. I just ordered a bag since I put down a 25lb bag and want a little extra incase I have thin spots


----------



## Art James

Benwag said:


> @Art James Johnston Seed company has a 10lb bag of champion GQ which would be good for your size lawn. I just ordered a bag since I put down a 25lb bag and want a little extra incase I have thin spots


Thanks for the recommendation. I will check it out.


----------



## Thisguy

Mowed mine for the first time last night. 10 days from seed. It was too dark for pics


----------



## Wfrobinette

ATV said:


> PRG Fail 😂😂😂
> 
> Lesson learned-make sure your edge guard on the spreader is fully locked out of the way 🤦🏼‍♂️ Also-don't rush your seeding and not do multiple passes. PRG is germinating really well-just have a few lines of significant growth. I'll mow this week and then go back in with some additional seed to even things out as it all grows in. Hope someone learns from my mistakes that we all know shouldn't happen-but did.


Add

2. Seed doesn't fly as far as fertilizer either.

3. Also do two passes at half rate perpendicular to each other. much better coverage.


----------



## Wfrobinette

Art James said:


> Benwag said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Art James Johnston Seed company has a 10lb bag of champion GQ which would be good for your size lawn. I just ordered a bag since I put down a 25lb bag and want a little extra incase I have thin spots
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the recommendation. I will check it out.
Click to expand...

https://www.seedranch.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=rye

Clubhouse is good too and they also sell champion. Johnston is about $2 cheaper after shipping but seed ranch is free shipping.

I've purchased seed from both.


----------



## Wfrobinette

wking said:


> When was everyone's first mow?


I just put out seed last week. I'm guessing in a week or so.


----------



## Wfrobinette

How on Earth are you guys 3 and 4 weeks in to a PRG over seed? This stuff does not like temps in the 80's.

Sep-Nov with about 4 weeks before first frost.


----------



## crstude

Any of you guys that used a drop spreader, what setting did you put it on to get two even passes (north/sout, east/wes)? I threw down about 10 days ago, and i'm not really happy with the distribution from the earthway. Have several spots that either washed out or just didn't get good contact raking in after my verticut and scalp. I'm going to put more out, but what setting would you use on the drop spreader?


----------



## Hapa512

crstude said:


> Any of you guys that used a drop spreader, what setting did you put it on to get two even passes (north/sout, east/wes)? I threw down about 10 days ago, and i'm not really happy with the distribution from the earthway. Have several spots that either washed out or just didn't get good contact raking in after my verticut and scalp. I'm going to put more out, but what setting would you use on the drop spreader?


I have not spread my seed out, but so far everything I've learned, read, Youtube'd about, that is using the Scotts drop spreader is setting it on 10? I'm still waiting for temps and getting prepared. Maybe some of the other guys will chime in?


----------



## Vandy

Wfrobinette said:


> How on Earth are you guys 3 and 4 weeks in to a PRG over seed? This stuff does not like temps in the 80's.
> 
> Sep-Nov with about 4 weeks before first frost.


I've had a few days in the 80's other than that all 70's and 50's as lows. Mine is coming in quick and strong.


----------



## Wfrobinette

crstude said:


> Any of you guys that used a drop spreader, what setting did you put it on to get two even passes (north/sout, east/wes)? I threw down about 10 days ago, and i'm not really happy with the distribution from the earthway. Have several spots that either washed out or just didn't get good contact raking in after my verticut and scalp. I'm going to put more out, but what setting would you use on the drop spreader?


I've been laying seed for 20 years. Mostly cool season grasses in the cool season climate. Fescue(tall and fine), KBG and Rye

My advice.

Don't fully judge at 10 days.

1. Raking in doesn't always help get the seeds down to the soil. I used my mower roller(no blade spin) to go over lawn 2 passes. If you have a reel mower with a roller go over it.

2. min germination is 5 days it can take a couple weeks to get everything germinated. Did you use a starter fert? If you didn't it's gonna be slower. Temps are are also important. Too hot the seeds won't germinate or can be killed quickly.

3. How many pounds per 1k did you use?8 to 10 at a minimum.

4. Irrigation? Do these "bare" spots receive the same amount of water as the others?

5 What drop spreader? Each manufacture should have settings on their website. They are all different.

I've used drop spreaders in the past but no longer have one and use an Earthway rotary. Should have never sold my drop spreader. Not that it provides better coverage but it doesn't fling seed into the mulch.

6. You can use too much seed so be careful.

7. You can fill in spots by hand throwing seed too.


----------



## wking

Mowed on Tuesday, which was day 10 with my GM1000. Laid the grass over some, but recovered fine. Going to get a mow in tonight as well. This is a photo my neighbor took from his second story.


----------



## Wfrobinette

wking said:


> Mowed on Tuesday, which was day 10 with my GM1000. Laid the grass over some, but recovered fine. Going to get a mow in tonight as well. This is a photo my neighbor took from his second story.


Nice!

As an aside that tree is going to be an issue being that close to the road. Did your HOA or the city put that in?


----------



## Redtwin

Wfrobinette said:


> wking said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mowed on Tuesday, which was day 10 with my GM1000. Laid the grass over some, but recovered fine. Going to get a mow in tonight as well. This is a photo my neighbor took from his second story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice!
> 
> As an aside that tree is going to be an issue being that close to the road. Did your HOA or the city put that in?
Click to expand...

Was thinking the same thing. It is going to destroy that sidewalk and the curb.


----------



## wking

Wfrobinette said:


> wking said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mowed on Tuesday, which was day 10 with my GM1000. Laid the grass over some, but recovered fine. Going to get a mow in tonight as well. This is a photo my neighbor took from his second story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice!
> 
> As an aside that tree is going to be an issue being that close to the road. Did your HOA or the city put that in?
Click to expand...

 That is correct. If they die, charge you 300 for a new one.

Insanity.


----------



## zcabe

Day 6 after seeding. Front yard is irrigated so I've been running all zones twice a day but backyard is not irrigated so I have been hand watering.


----------



## Thisguy

Little thin in spots, but fairly pleased overall


----------



## Ware

Living vicariously through this thread. Good work all. :thumbup:


----------



## coreystooks

@Thisguy mine looks similar I threw out some additional seed a week ago and fertilized yesterday so well see if the thin spots fill in.


----------



## M311att

Does this look right?


----------



## conroyz28

Today I scalped down to .45. De-thatched, swept all debris. And put down my GQ. All on 10k square feet. 45k steps later. Im one tired fool.


----------



## Thor865

25 days post seeding. Hoc .75, 
champion prg (sr4650, banfield, stamina) 
20lb/1k


----------



## Thor865

coreystooks said:


> @Thisguy mine looks similar I threw out some additional seed a week ago and fertilized yesterday so well see if the thin spots fill in.


Looks great it'll tiller out and fill in. How many days post seeding ?


----------



## coreystooks

@Thor865 15 days initial seeding and 7 on the additional. When do you usually start seeing tillering?


----------



## Thor865

coreystooks said:


> @Thor865 15 days initial seeding and 7 on the additional. When do you usually start seeing tillering?


What is your total pounds per 1k of seed. I would expect better coverage thus far but temps over that period could play a part in the development of the plant. I usually notice the biggest difference on tillering between day 30-45. Color difference as well.


----------



## coreystooks

@Thor865 should be close to 15lbs/k now. I didn't verticut or dethatch only scalp so I'm wondering if that may of had an affect on germination. Temps have been cooler than normal for this time of year should have been perfect.


----------



## Wfrobinette

wking said:


> Wfrobinette said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wking said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mowed on Tuesday, which was day 10 with my GM1000. Laid the grass over some, but recovered fine. Going to get a mow in tonight as well. This is a photo my neighbor took from his second story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice!
> 
> As an aside that tree is going to be an issue being that close to the road. Did your HOA or the city put that in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is correct. If they die, charge you 300 for a new one.
> 
> Insanity.
Click to expand...

The insanity will be the money the charge for the sidewalk repair and what the spend to fix the curb.


----------



## stogie1020

Not a true overseed as I tore up the entire backyard (thread in Landscaping) and removed (well, as much as one really can) the bermuda entirely, but the Champion GQ seed went down on Saturday...

It feels too early here with daytime temps still in the 100s during the day (low 70s at night), but I live half a mile from a golf course and they are currently in the middle of their rye overseed, so I think I should be OK. I would love to have waited a few more weeks, but my wife has grown tired of the dirt backyard during the lawn expansion/reno. The Arden15 will have to wait until the spring to go down.

In the past, I have used some top dressing to cover the PRG seed, but this time I just rolled it into the prepared soil I just had laid down since I already had the roller rented. Hoping I still get good rooting and coverage.


----------



## OKCBermuda

Day 15, mow at .75" bench HOC. Recovering nicely still have a few strips to fill in the middle.


----------



## Romangorilla

A little update to my fall overseed:

Prep: 
Scalped my Bermuda down from 5/8" to .4".
Bagged EVERYTHING. 
Put seed down at a rate of about 8lbs per M
Sprayed RGS, and Humic acid.
Put a balanced fert down at a .5 Nitrogen rate.
I did not dethatch or put down peat moss.

First round of champion GQ seed went down on Sept 19th.
It took about 5-6 days to germinate. I had decent germination but nothing to be excited about.
Second round of seed went down on Sept 28th at a rate of 10lbs per M.
Raked the seed in and threw down a very light layer of peat moss.
Germination seemed to be better but still a little thin, especially around the edges of the yard where the Bermuda is the most thick.
Oct 3 I put down more seed just around the edges of the yard.

Overall, it looks top notch from the street, but when you get up on it, you can tell it's thin. Hoping for it to thicken up and tiller.
My only regret is not renting a verticutter and using it to open up the Bermuda canopy before the first round of seed. The Bermuda was just still so thick.
I think that could've been a game changer...lesson learned.

The day the first round of seed went down:


Today (10/6):


----------



## gonefishn2010

stogie1020 said:


> Not a true overseed as I tore up the entire backyard (thread in Landscaping) and removed (well, as much as one really can) the bermuda entirely, but the Champion GQ seed went down on Saturday...
> 
> It feels too early here with daytime temps still in the 100s during the day (low 70s at night), but I live half a mile from a golf course and they are currently in the middle of their rye overseed, so I think I should be OK. I would love to have waited a few more weeks, but my wife has grown tired of the dirt backyard during the lawn expansion/reno. The Arden15 will have to wait until the spring to go down.
> 
> In the past, I have used some top dressing to cover the PRG seed, but this time I just rolled it into the prepared soil I just had laid down since I already had the roller rented. Hoping I still get good rooting and coverage.


I am right there with ya. My temp gauge said 104 at my house two days ago. There is a park right down the street from where I work that already has rye that is 4" tall. It seems to be doing ok but has lots of big trees for shade. I am going to plant on Friday and hope for the best. I have noticed it is taking longer to get up to that 100 degrees and drops off with in a few hours. Not like last month 104 by 9am and still in the 100's at 10pm. Good luck!


----------



## Lawndry List

Looked like we were going to have highs in the 60s & 70s with lows in the 40s & upper 30's when I purchased my Champion GQ. It's in the mid 80's this week with lows as high as 64... Forecast doesn't show a low under 45 for the next two weeks. Good ole weather is throwing off my gameplan of when to throw down the GQ


----------



## thompwa

I cut the Bermuda down to .4" and threw down PRG seed at ~15lb/k. I saw germination at 5 days and really saw major growth at 7. Pics below are from 9 days in. I am itching to get the first mow on it!


----------



## stogie1020

Man, I really hope I get good germination. 
You guys have awesome looking rye. I am juggling trying to get the output of the new mp rotators right, along with not covering the seed with anything on the bare soil (I rolled it in)... I kept one pound of the champion gq in reserve in case I need to fill in any areas, but if nothing really takes I will need to get new seed ASAP.


----------



## corneliani

stogie1020 said:


> Man, I really hope I get good germination.
> You guys have awesome looking rye. I am juggling trying to get the output of the new mp rotators right, along with not covering the seed with anything on the bare soil (I rolled it in)... I kept one pound of the champion gq in reserve in case I need to fill in any areas, but if nothing really takes I will need to get new seed ASAP.


I didn't topdress and only scarified a portion of the yard before giving up on that since I was running out of daylight. I did roll it lightly and was happy I did because our 'light rain' forecast turned out to be a soaking a few hours later. That rolling may have kept the seed in place. I did get some runoff in areas and was a bit worried when I couldn't see any germination after a week .. but come day 8, 9, & 10 and it's beginning to take off!
I am seeing slightly better results where I ran my Scarifier and have areas where I can still see the seed, ungerminated, on the ground. Not sure what'll come of those... it's a spot that gets more sun and being non-irrigated it may be drying those sections up. Not too worried about it though, I'll just touch up whatever doesn't come up by this weekend.

Here's some pics on day 10.


----------



## Vandy

Almost 3 weeks post seed. The yard and the champion gq look really good. I'm Happy!


----------



## coreystooks

@Vandy looks great!


----------



## Wfrobinette

M311att said:


> Does this look right?


That's a lot of seed in there.


----------



## stogie1020

Seed went down on Saturday...


----------



## RangersFC

stogie1020 said:


> Seed went down on Saturday...


Looks great! How low did you scalp? I'm planning to scalp to dirt, similar to you. But it seems like a lot of people haven't scalped that low.


----------



## stogie1020

RangersFC said:


> stogie1020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seed went down on Saturday...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great! How low did you scalp? I'm planning to scalp to dirt, similar to you. But it seems like a lot of people haven't scalped that low.
Click to expand...

Mine was a complete lawn reno, so I was starting from bare dirt, no prior grass (I removed many inches of old soil/clay that had common bermuda previously and put down inches of top soil).


----------



## Ren

OK just ordered 100lbs of seed. Still in the 90s and 100s next week. But it will start dropping fast. Today was the first mow on my Bermuda where it looks like its starting to fall off from a lack of sunlight (not heat...).


----------



## Thisguy

18 days post seed

Much better than last year


----------



## zcabe

13 Days Post Seed


----------



## stogie1020

^That filled in nicely!


----------



## Romangorilla

About 2 weeks since germination, it's beginning to tiller and darken up:


----------



## crstude

It's been fun so far...still need some spots to fill in. This is day 19


----------



## bhutchinson87

First time overseeding last Sunday and got some babies about 5 days later. Pretty excited to see how the pop up over the weekend.


----------



## conroyz28

6 days after .45 bermuda scalp and overseeded with PRG GQ. Im not seeing any germination. Im in dallas and the Temps have been in the 80's. 
It has got plenty of water 3 times a day for 10 mins each time. Ground is wet. Could I be over watering?

Shouldn't i be seeing something by now????


----------



## stogie1020

I wonder if the seeds didn't get enough water? I watered 10 min every three hours with the only break between midnight and 5 am. Got sprouts in 5 days with champion gq in 100 degree temps.


----------



## RangersFC

OK, I'm going to overseed this week, as temps have finally dropped under 90 degrees. Dumb question, but wanted to make sure I don't mess this up:

Is it bad to scalp my bermuda down to like .25in prior to overseeding? Will that be a negative when it's time for the bermuda to come out of dormancy? I fear that if I don't scalp it that low, the seed won't make contact with the soil because my bermuda is so thick. I am planning to scalp it as low as my mid season scalp this summer:

Scalp from July 20th:



How the bermuda looked 2 weeks after the scalp:


----------



## cnet24

RangersFC said:


> OK, I'm going to overseed this week, as temps have finally dropped under 90 degrees. Dumb question, but wanted to make sure I don't mess this up:
> 
> Is it bad to scalp my bermuda down to like .25in prior to overseeding? Will that be a negative when it's time for the bermuda to come out of dormancy? I fear that if I don't scalp it that low, the seed won't make contact with the soil because my bermuda is so thick. I am planning to scalp it as low as my mid season scalp this summer:
> 
> Scalp from July 20th:
> 
> 
> 
> How the bermuda looked 2 weeks after the scalp:


No issue. In fact, a scalp and verticut is encouraged prior to overseeding for good seed/soil contact.


----------



## RangersFC

cnet24 said:



> RangersFC said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'm going to overseed this week, as temps have finally dropped under 90 degrees. Dumb question, but wanted to make sure I don't mess this up:
> 
> Is it bad to scalp my bermuda down to like .25in prior to overseeding? Will that be a negative when it's time for the bermuda to come out of dormancy? I fear that if I don't scalp it that low, the seed won't make contact with the soil because my bermuda is so thick. I am planning to scalp it as low as my mid season scalp this summer:
> 
> Scalp from July 20th:
> 
> 
> 
> How the bermuda looked 2 weeks after the scalp:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No issue. In fact, a scalp and verticut is encouraged prior to overseeding for good seed/soil contact.
Click to expand...

Thank you, sir. Really appreciate it.


----------



## Vandy

Have a quick question. I applied disease x at seed down and just applied bio advanced fungus control yesterday. I have spots coming up on the Bermuda grass only (not the PRG) can anyone ID this fungus?








Should I apply another round of disease x on top of the bio advanced?


----------



## Hapa512

Question:

I'm planning on over-seeding next week with some Champion GQ PRG(Provided that temps are okay). My question is ? Do you think it would be too much stress on the lawn to level a little bit after the grass has grown in? I was thinking about taking advantage of the cooler temps and doing a little leveling.

Thank You for any insight !!


----------



## thompwa

My PRG is looking really good - almost a month in. I've mowed it about 3 times already :lol:

Question for the group is - What is the general rule of thumb on applying plant growth regulator in the winter months to perennial rye overseeds? It's growing fast and I'm not really feeding it. I sprayed my bermuda the day before I seeded with 0.25oz/k to stunt it a little and give the PRG time to light off.

GreenKeeper has my current app on the bermuda at 194/255 GDD for what that's worth.

Any feedback is appreciated.


----------



## lucas287

thompwa said:


> Question for the group is - What is the general rule of thumb on applying plant growth regulator in the winter months to perennial rye overseeds? It's growing fast and I'm not really feeding it. I sprayed my bermuda the day before I seeded with 0.25oz/k to stunt it a little and give the PRG time to light off.
> 
> GreenKeeper has my current app on the bermuda at 194/255 GDD for what that's worth.
> 
> Any feedback is appreciated.


Great question that I'll be following. Down here in Texas PRG grows insanely fast all winter long. It never gets cold enough for it to shut down.


----------



## coreystooks

For those like me who were worried their PRG wouldn't be thick enough, just give it time. This Friday will be 4 weeks since seed down and this last week it has changed completely. I just needed patience.


----------



## rjw0283

Hapa512 said:


> Question:
> 
> I'm planning on over-seeding next week with some Champion GQ PRG(Provided that temps are okay). My question is ? Do you think it would be too much stress on the lawn to level a little bit after the grass has grown in? I was thinking about taking advantage of the cooler temps and doing a little leveling.
> 
> Thank You for any insight !!


I did some spot leveling and then seeded. Prg is coming up good on sand. These were areas that a groundhog came in and then it rained and washed up some tunnel holes, so I filled them in with sand and seeded over it. It seemed to work well, I wish I would have done a little more.


----------



## Ware

coreystooks said:


> For those like me who were worried their PRG wouldn't be thick enough, just give it time. This Friday will be 4 weeks since seed down and this last week it has changed completely. I just needed patience.


Looks amazing. :thumbup:


----------



## mha2345

coreystooks said:


> For those like me who were worried their PRG wouldn't be thick enough, just give it time. This Friday will be 4 weeks since seed down and this last week it has changed completely. I just needed patience.


What's your HOC? I scalped my bermuda to .375 and have been keeping the PRG at .675 and im seeing a lot of bermuda starting to reach the same height as the PRG now. It's been 15 days since seeding. Wondering if the PRG will tolerate a scalp or will I be ok?

Here is a pic from 2 days ago:


----------



## Thor865

Bout 35 days post seeding.


----------



## coreystooks

@mha2345 HOC is 5/8". Did you spray PGR before the scalp? I sprayed a double rate on mine the day before I scalped and no Bermuda has grown up to the ryegrass height.


----------



## robbybobby

azdrugdoc said:


> For the Phoenix-area folks, where are you buying your seed? Have about 10k sqft to tackle immediately after Halloween. Thanks!


Ewings! The only guarantee for POA free


----------



## coreystooks

@Thor865's going to be giving Augusta a run for its money next month.


----------



## Nick2879

2 weeks mow at 1 3/8 with my new Cal Trimmer. Night and day vs last year with my rotary!


----------



## Thor865

coreystooks said:


> @Thor865's going to be giving Augusta a run for its money next month.


I was reading an article and apparently Augusta guys are already expecting a lack luster turf compared to normal


----------



## Thisguy

Thor865 said:


> Bout 35 days post seeding.


That's awesome! Great job. Understatement to say the weather has been perfect?


----------



## mha2345

coreystooks said:


> @mha2345 HOC is 5/8". Did you spray PGR before the scalp? I sprayed a double rate on mine the day before I scalped and no Bermuda has grown up to the ryegrass height.


I didn't apply PGR . I read through @Ware thread and saw he cut at .5" due to this issue, so I may try that and bump back up.


----------



## Wfrobinette

mha2345 said:


> coreystooks said:
> 
> 
> 
> For those like me who were worried their PRG wouldn't be thick enough, just give it time. This Friday will be 4 weeks since seed down and this last week it has changed completely. I just needed patience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your HOC? I scalped my bermuda to .375 and have been keeping the PRG at .675 and im seeing a lot of bermuda starting to reach the same height as the PRG now. It's been 15 days since seeding. Wondering if the PRG will tolerate a scalp or will I be ok?
> 
> Here is a pic from 2 days ago:
Click to expand...

Nice!

That's the issue when you plant too soon. You are basically trying to time when Bermuda goes dormant.

IMO, a lot of guys on here went fairly early. In PA, and NJ I was planting seed in September. I planted on 9/26 up here in Charlotte and am finding that was even early up here this year. I hit the tiftuff with PGR a couple days before as well and started with an HOC of 0.75. In 20 days we have had 312 GDD only 1 day with GDD < 10. I was mowing daily until the seed started germinating and cresting above the tiftuf. We have had days of rain and my rye is now 4 inches in some spots.

Anyway. Established cool season grasses tolerate short haircuts fairly well. However, I'd take it all down 0.5 then to 0.375 after a watering then let it grow back to desired height.

I'm going to warn you, this stuff grows way faster when the temps drop to the low 50's overnight. Mine grew all winter long up here last year. I had a 4 or 5 days of rain and had to go to a rotary mower it got so long. Stayed at 2.5" the rest of the year and still have the nicest lawn in the neighborhood.

It takes 2x the PGR as Bermuda to tame this stuff. 200GDD reapply rates and that's using a base of 0 C (that's right freezing)

Worth a read

https://sportsfieldmanagementonline.com/2017/01/10/pgrs-and-growing-degree-days/8419/


----------



## BU Bear

I'm sure this has been answered somewhere else, but how often and how much do y'all water once the PRG has established itself?


----------



## razorback2020

1st try at overseeding. About 25 days in.


----------



## M311att

How long does it take rye to stand back up if it got laid over while mowing?


----------



## Thor865

BU Bear said:


> I'm sure this has been answered somewhere else, but how often and how much do y'all water once the PRG has established itself?


After about 10-14 days I go to normal watering schedule


----------



## zcabe

First cut today. Spread 8-1-8 XGRN and mixed up some micronutrients, humic, and kelp and sprayed. Going to water it in later on.


----------



## Thor865

M311att said:


> How long does it take rye to stand back up if it got laid over while mowing?


Not long but can't say definite time. If your notice it's laying over and not standing back up then usually that's a sign it needs more water


----------



## kevinwang1219

Noticed there is a new thread on this topic. So right now I have bermuda and want to seed down PRG. I was told its not great to level right now since bermuda would be under the sand for quite some time. I wanted to see what would be a good course of action then. My lawn is bumpy and i want to fix that.

My plan was to scalp bermuda, core aerate, sand level, seed PRG, and fertilize. Is it too late to level? Should i just scalp and seed? I live in Socal


----------



## matt16

I put 10lbs per 1k of annual rye grass on my lawn without starter fert or anything about 6 days ago and starting to get some sprouts. How soon can I put down fertilizer?


----------



## PhxHeat

kevinwang1219 said:


> My lawn is bumpy and i want to fix that.
> 
> My plan was to scalp bermuda, core aerate, sand level, seed PRG, and fertilize. Is it too late to level? Should i just scalp and seed? I live in Socal


@kevinwang1219 this time of year the bermuda is slowing its growth with the reduced hours of daylight. Your best option will be to scalp and do the prg as temps hit 55-ish to 60-ish degrees at night. The lower the daytime highs the better (sub 80°ish). Those temps will really slow the bermuda further and limit winter energy stores being used for recovery after the scalp.

Once temps come up back up around late spring early summer and the bermuda is actively growing again, you can core aerate, fertilize, and sand.


----------



## Wfrobinette

matt16 said:


> I put 10lbs per 1k of annual rye grass on my lawn without starter fert or anything about 6 days ago and starting to get some sprouts. How soon can I put down fertilizer?


Now id you use organic fertilizer. I'd wait 30 days or so before you put anything harsh down. This stuff won't need near what you put down for Bermuda. In fact, you probably only need 1 app of slow release.


----------



## OKCBermuda

Forgot to post a 21 day update. This was from the 11th, coming in pretty well. Bermuda has recovered so there are some spots that Bermuda is helping with coverage at this point. Mowing at .6" scalped Bermuda at .375 (3/8).

(I know the stripes are pretty bad  still getting used to the toro)


----------



## Redtwin

Looking good, @ATV!

Finally someone who mows with their Toro as poorly as I do! I've learned doing doubles hides the mistakes better.


----------



## melliott2005

I think I need some reassurance. I threw down my Clubhouse PRG on 10/13 and have yet to see any germination.

I scaled my bermuda to 3/8", sprayed PGR, and verticut twice. Spread seed at 10lbs/1000sqft. I didn't spread peat moss. No preemergent in over a year. I've been watering every 2 hours for 5 mins.

Someone tell me that I am being impatient.


----------



## RollTideDFW

melliott2005 said:


> I think I need some reassurance. I threw down my Clubhouse PRG on 10/13 and have yet to see any germination.
> 
> I scaled my bermuda to 3/8", sprayed PGR, and verticut twice. Spread seed at 10lbs/1000sqft. I didn't spread peat moss. No preemergent in over a year. I've been watering every 2 hours for 5 mins.
> 
> Someone tell me that I am being impatient.


You're being impatient.


----------



## melliott2005

RollTideDFW said:


> melliott2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I need some reassurance. I threw down my Clubhouse PRG on 10/13 and have yet to see any germination.
> 
> I scaled my bermuda to 3/8", sprayed PGR, and verticut twice. Spread seed at 10lbs/1000sqft. I didn't spread peat moss. No preemergent in over a year. I've been watering every 2 hours for 5 mins.
> 
> Someone tell me that I am being impatient.
> 
> 
> 
> You're being impatient.
Click to expand...

Thanks. When should I worry?


----------



## corneliani

@melliott2005 I would guess you've already had some germination, with the weather being in the warmer side as it was. You should be seeing it visibly come up as this week progresses. For me day 10 is when it all started showing up nicely. You're almost there.


----------



## lucas287

Day 13 (since seeded - not germination) down here in Texas!! Current HOC is .75" but there's still quite a few stragglers closer to an inch. Going to spray another round of PGR+N tonight to keep the bermuda suppressed. Very mild weather here lately. Used EMPRO Birdie PRG blend from Ewings. $70 for a 50# bag.


----------



## Hapa512

Would you guys drop down seed today if temps were like this ? It's supposed to cool down from 28th and I'm anxious to drop my seed...Already scalped and verticut my yard. I scalped to 1/4.


----------



## Ware

@Hapa512 looks good to me.


----------



## lucas287

Hapa512 said:


> Would you guys drop down seed today if temps were like this ? It's supposed to cool down from 28th and I'm anxious to drop my seed...Already scalped and verticut my yard. I scalped to 1/4.


heck yeah do it do it! I seeded at probably the worst time over the last month and look at my yard ^


----------



## Hapa512

@Ware Thank you

@lucas287

Looks like I'm going to have a busy afternoon and tomorrow...LOL

Thanks Guys !!


----------



## wking

There is some fun mowing going on over here!


----------



## Thor865

lucas287 said:


> Day 13 (since seeded - not germination) down here in Texas!! Current HOC is .75" but there's still quite a few stragglers closer to an inch. Going to spray another round of PGR+N tonight to keep the bermuda suppressed. Very mild weather here lately. Used EMPRO Birdie PRG blend from Ewings. $70 for a 50# bag.


I would be cautious spraying PGR on the prg this early


----------



## Hapa512

Yard is scalped and verticut. My question is does anyone think It's a good idea to do a light top dress of peat moss ? Will my results be better ? I do have full irrigation through out the entire seed area.

Thank you for any insight.


----------



## lucas287

@Hapa512 You'll be fine without peat moss. My biggest recommendation is finding where your sprinklers do a poor job and supplement that with the hose several times a day. I just left the hose hooked up and stretched out for the first week and watered down all the edges and a few other spots my sprinklers don't cover well.


----------



## lucas287

Thor865 said:


> lucas287 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Day 13 (since seeded - not germination) down here in Texas!! Current HOC is .75" but there's still quite a few stragglers closer to an inch. Going to spray another round of PGR+N tonight to keep the bermuda suppressed. Very mild weather here lately. Used EMPRO Birdie PRG blend from Ewings. $70 for a 50# bag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would be cautious spraying PGR on the prg this early
Click to expand...

I came across this article from Syngenta a while back:

https://www.greencastonline.com/techarticle.aspx?type=feature&paid=193861

Here's an excerpt from it:

At early overseeding dates in September and early October, bermudagrass will aggressively regrow when the Primo Maxx pre-overseeding application dissipates. Primo Maxx can be applied post-overseeding at 0.35 oz. per 1,000 sq. ft. one to seven days after the first mowing, followed by a second application 21 days later (reduce the Primo Maxx rate to 0.2 oz. per 1,000 sq. ft. if growth is slow because of colder-than-normal temperatures). These applications effectively suppress the bermudagrass and greatly improve the density and color of the ryegrass stand (use 0.1 to 0.125 oz. per 1,000 sq. ft. on greens).


----------



## Hapa512

lucas287 said:


> @Hapa512 You'll be fine without peat moss. My biggest recommendation is finding where your sprinklers do a poor job and supplement that with the hose several times a day. I just left the hose hooked up and stretched out for the first week and watered down all the edges and a few other spots my sprinklers don't cover well.


@lucas287

Awesome ! Thank you for the insight, I just have a sidewalk strip that has a drip line underneath, so I think I might just spread a tad bit on that part, but the rest of the yard is fine, I have really good coverage and had a pro come and adjust, fix, raise, and change a few heads. I do need to replace one head being my verti-cutter snapped a head (My fault) lol

Thank you for the help !! I'll be posting updated pics.


----------



## Thor865

lucas287 said:


> Thor865 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lucas287 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Day 13 (since seeded - not germination) down here in Texas!! Current HOC is .75" but there's still quite a few stragglers closer to an inch. Going to spray another round of PGR+N tonight to keep the bermuda suppressed. Very mild weather here lately. Used EMPRO Birdie PRG blend from Ewings. $70 for a 50# bag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would be cautious spraying PGR on the prg this early
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I came across this article from Syngenta a while back:
> 
> https://www.greencastonline.com/techarticle.aspx?type=feature&paid=193861
> 
> Here's an excerpt from it:
> 
> At early overseeding dates in September and early October, bermudagrass will aggressively regrow when the Primo Maxx pre-overseeding application dissipates. Primo Maxx can be applied post-overseeding at 0.35 oz. per 1,000 sq. ft. one to seven days after the first mowing, followed by a second application 21 days later (reduce the Primo Maxx rate to 0.2 oz. per 1,000 sq. ft. if growth is slow because of colder-than-normal temperatures). These applications effectively suppress the bermudagrass and greatly improve the density and color of the ryegrass stand (use 0.1 to 0.125 oz. per 1,000 sq. ft. on greens).
Click to expand...

Good find. Thanks for sharing the info!


----------



## Hapa512

Through it down today. 12lbs Champion GQ per 1K. Hope to see some germination in the next week or so ? I may have went a tad bit overboard trying to keep people and Amazon off my seedlings...LOL

Wish me luck !!!


----------



## Kdaves12

Cliff notes on my PRG progress. Thanks to Covid, I started dabbling with this new hobby and was hooked fairly quick. My bermuda was a mess this year, but I turned it around with great results ready for spring.

I'm doing PRG on just my backyard (*1,350 sf*) since I still consider myself a noob and didn't want to bite off more than I can chew.

Here we go.

9/25 - Ordered *10 lbs* PRG seed (inspired by Ryan Knorr) from Seed Super Store.



10/1/2020 - Topdressing material arrived (*2.5 parts sand; .5 part organic material*). I was too chicken to go 100% sand since I'm still trying to improve my soil. I immediately regretted that decision when I started seeing rocks scattering. Lesson learned.

Tools Used:
- Wheelbarrow
- landscaping rake
- levelawn



10/8 - Picked up new toy



10/11 - Prepped for overseed. After doing another quick round with the levelawn, I applied SLS Root Hume (*10oz/1k*).

10/12 - 1st round of seed down (*5lbs/1k*). After my 1st mow, I plan on putting down 2nd round for thin and bare areas. I also wanted to save half the bag in the event this was a huge bust... Following the seed I applied:

- HumiChar (*3lbs/1k*)
- Fertilizer 32-0-10 (*2.8lbs/1k*)

Prior to overseeding, my bermuda HOC was 1.25" (lowest my mower could go at the time. The prostripe will fix that for future).

I decided not to mess with a peat moss layer. Again, lesson learned. Birds EVERYWHERE.









On the night of Day 7 post seeding, feeling discouraged after not seeing any results as you see above, I decided to do the one thing I swore I would never give into... the flashlight test...
Safe to say, I'm glad I gave in...











10/21 - Day 9 I can really see the difference as I grow more excited.



My plan is to cut the water off on the morning of Day 12, 1st mow and 2nd round of seed on Day 13.

More to come!


----------



## justin144

I threw down some seed 10 days ago and I have a bunch of big bare spots. I think I just was not watering enough. If I start watering heavier now, think those spots will start to germinate, or do I need to put down more seed?


----------



## Kdaves12

justin144 said:


> I threw down some seed 10 days ago and I have a bunch of big bare spots. I think I just was not watering enough. If I start watering heavier now, think those spots will start to germinate, or do I need to put down more seed?


Mine are just now starting to fill in on Day 10. Once I mow on Sunday, I'm going to treat the thin/bare areas first, then apply 2nd round of seed + adjust any sprinkler heads that might need a little adjusting.


----------



## rjw0283

Kdaves12 said:


> justin144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I threw down some seed 10 days ago and I have a bunch of big bare spots. I think I just was not watering enough. If I start watering heavier now, think those spots will start to germinate, or do I need to put down more seed?
> 
> 
> 
> Mine are just now starting to fill in on Day 10. Once I mow on Sunday, I'm going to treat the thin/bare areas first, then apply 2nd round of seed + adjust any sprinkler heads that might need a little adjusting.
Click to expand...

You think the seeds are still there? And just need more water to germinate? I seeded 2 weeks ago and have some spots. Still looks decent. It's only rained 2 days since I seeded, and I got hit with a bunch of warm weather, I'll probably hit the yard again with around 4lbs of seed per 1 K and time it when a bunch of wet weather is coming in.... that should do it. The areas I'm having issues are the heavily sanded areas from my level in August, the sand just doesn't stay wet enough for the seeds to germinate. I hit it with some H20 Maximizer wetting agent, since it's labeled for that purpose. We'll see what happens.


----------



## Kdaves12

rjw0283 said:


> You think the seeds are still there? And just need more water to germinate? I seeded 2 weeks ago and have some spots. Still looks decent. It's only rained 2 days since I seeded, and I got hit with a bunch of warm weather, I'll probably hit the yard again with around 4lbs of seed per 1 K and time it when a bunch of wet weather is coming in.... that should do it. The areas I'm having issues are the heavily sanded areas from my level in August, the sand just doesn't stay wet enough for the seeds to germinate. I hit it with some H20 Maximizer wetting agent, since it's labeled for that purpose. We'll see what happens.


If I were to respond to you last night, I would have said YES, the remaining seed is still there and might just need some sprinkler adjustments. But we just got a huge storm overnight, so that might've changed. Hopefully, it'll dry out by Sunday for mow & 2nd round over seed.


----------



## AllisonN




----------



## rjw0283

justin144 said:


> I threw down some seed 10 days ago and I have a bunch of big bare spots. I think I just was not watering enough. If I start watering heavier now, think those spots will start to germinate, or do I need to put down more seed?


I seeded 14 days ago, and I still have germination of new seeds in bare spots. My plan is to wait another week for a total of 3 weeks before I add more. It's only in the areas that are heavily sanded from leveling. Sand just doesn't hold the moisture well, plus it's been Mid 80's and sunny so the sun soaks it up quite fast, and I'm only water once a day. But it's filling in nicely. And looks pretty good.


----------



## coreystooks

Posted this in my journal but might get more attention here.

Little issue started popping up in the rye this week, turning yellow in spots. Is this some kind of fungus or something else?


----------



## PhxHeat

Watering to much and too frequent can block oxygen from the roots and flush nutrients through the soil causing yellowing. 
A deficiency in iron can cause some yellow too.


----------



## coreystooks

@PhxHeat we got an inch of rain yesterday but that's the only water it's had since last week. We did have a little heat this week in the 80's for 3 days.


----------



## zcabe




----------



## crstude

Is it going to hurt anything fertilizing this weekend after our early winter storm? Temps ought to be back into the 50's/60's to which is normal for my area this time of year. I'd like to get something down prior to actual "cold" temps being constant toward end of November.


----------



## DFWLawnNut

AllisonN said:


> Nice flags!


----------



## RangersFC

I'm on day 9 of my PRG overseed project. I've got great germination in most of the yard, but several spots with little to no germination. How long should I wait until I reseed those areas? Thanks!


----------



## AllisonN

DFWLawnNut said:


> AllisonN said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice flags!
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely!!
Click to expand...


----------



## AllisonN

RangersFC said:


> I'm on day 9 of my PRG overseed project. I've got great germination in most of the yard, but several spots with little to no germination. How long should I wait until I reseed those areas? Thanks!


It all depends. I would check to see if you can see any seed in the areas that are weak. If it was me and I had some left over I would hit it again in the weak areas. I know I went 20lbs a thousand after it was all said and done. I seeded 3 times in some areas due to my dog, people walking, and it washing from flooding of course.


----------



## Kdaves12

Day 13 - First mow.

Pretty happy of the 1st round results. 
A few areas w/ issues...

1) Edges. I was expecting that after 1st round. 
2) area by the fence; the further into the year, the less sunlight that area gets. The issue with that is after the big storm we had last Friday, this area is taking much longer to dry. I actually probably should've waited to mow because I damaged that side a little bit with the rear roller. It was heart-breaking...
3) the area on the right is the gutter runoff. That area has always given me trouble.

suggestions?


----------



## Wfrobinette

1 month in at 1 inch. Bermuda is still alive but slowing down. I'm hoping for dormant next week.

Clubhouse seed


----------



## Hapa512

@Kdaves12

Looks awesome so far ! How are you liking that Toro mower. I'm really interested in possibly buying one. I'm in Austin, how much did you pay out the door for that mower?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Thisguy

Frozen PRG. Only in Oklahoma. Ice storm 2020


----------



## DFWLawnNut

Thisguy said:


> Frozen PRG. Only in Oklahoma. Ice storm 2020


I wondered how you Oklahoma guys were doing up there after yesterday (and today). You have power?


----------



## Thisguy

DFWLawnNut said:


> Thisguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Frozen PRG. Only in Oklahoma. Ice storm 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wondered how you Oklahoma guys were doing up there after yesterday (and today). You have power?
Click to expand...



It's worse today. Lot of downed trees, fortunately we still have power. For now


----------



## DFWLawnNut

Thisguy said:


> DFWLawnNut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thisguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Frozen PRG. Only in Oklahoma. Ice storm 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wondered how you Oklahoma guys were doing up there after yesterday (and today). You have power?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's worse today. Lot of downed trees, fortunately we still have power. For now
Click to expand...

Get the ice skates out! Yeah most of western Oklahoma was without yesterday. We have an office in OKC and they left early once it started sleeting.


----------



## Hapa512

I'm getting a little bit nervous. Its been 6 days since I blew my seed, I mean laid out my seed....No signs of germination yet. We got a crazy cold front in and its now in the 40's It went from high 80's last week to 50's and 40's. I cut my watering a tad bit being we have some rain too. Really hope it germinates soon.


----------



## gonefishn2010

I was wondering if you guys fertilize the rye grass at all during the winter? I don't want to damage the dormant Bermuda. This is my first year trying to over seed so excuse me if this is dumb question. I have searched online but can't find much. I read a few topics saying do not fertilize dormant Bermuda. I am guess just water and mow properly. When I over seeded I put down a 10-10-10 which I think was a mistake cause the Bermuda took off and is looking great. My lawn is about 50/50 Bermuda Rye right now.


----------



## RDZed

Hapa512 said:


> I'm getting a little bit nervous. Its been 6 days since I blew my seed, I mean laid out my seed....No signs of germination yet. We got a crazy cold front in and its now in the 40's It went from high 80's last week to 50's and 40's. I cut my watering a tad bit being we have some rain too. Really hope it germinates soon.


You'll be fine. The soil temp is plenty warm enough to germinate PRG. Ive actually put rye down on snow covered dormant bermuda in the middle of December and it germinated, albeit slowly.

Give it another week, you're fine.


----------



## Hapa512

RDZed said:


> Hapa512 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm getting a little bit nervous. Its been 6 days since I blew my seed, I mean laid out my seed....No signs of germination yet. We got a crazy cold front in and its now in the 40's It went from high 80's last week to 50's and 40's. I cut my watering a tad bit being we have some rain too. Really hope it germinates soon.
> 
> 
> 
> You'll be fine. The soil temp is plenty warm enough to germinate PRG. Ive actually put rye down on snow covered dormant bermuda in the middle of December and it germinated, albeit slowly.
> 
> Give it another week, you're fine.
Click to expand...

Wow !!! That's crazy !! Thank you for the encouraging words. Can't wait to see some growth.


----------



## RDZed

Hapa512 said:


> RDZed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hapa512 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm getting a little bit nervous. Its been 6 days since I blew my seed, I mean laid out my seed....No signs of germination yet. We got a crazy cold front in and its now in the 40's It went from high 80's last week to 50's and 40's. I cut my watering a tad bit being we have some rain too. Really hope it germinates soon.
> 
> 
> 
> You'll be fine. The soil temp is plenty warm enough to germinate PRG. Ive actually put rye down on snow covered dormant bermuda in the middle of December and it germinated, albeit slowly.
> 
> Give it another week, you're fine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow !!! That's crazy !! Thank you for the encouraging words. Can't wait to see some growth.
Click to expand...

Yeah man, no worries. Its a cool weather grass. It does what it does, as long as there is decent soil contact.

This is mine earlier today, pre first cut (seed down Oct 9th)...







Patriot Bermuda still trying to play...



Edit: I keep the hibernating bermuda at 2" and rye at 3" in winter, because it looks dope and its the only time I can proper stripe the yard. The 2" dormant bermuda "thatch" keeps the rye roots protected and insulated for the winter.


----------



## Hapa512

@RDZed

Wow ! That grass looks awesome ! I scalped at 1/4 inch and plan to grow the Rye between 3/4-1 inch depending on how it looks, also applied Tnexx, not a heavy does, pretty light actually.


----------



## Kdaves12

Hapa512 said:


> @Kdaves12
> 
> Looks awesome so far ! How are you liking that Toro mower. I'm really interested in possibly buying one. I'm in Austin, how much did you pay out the door for that mower?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


So far, I'm loving it. It's definitely been a transition being it's almost double the weight of my other mower.

*Current pro's*
- Easy Height adjustment
- 3 speed transmission (I like the 1st gear for the 1st cut to really focus on the straight lines; then i can crank it up to the 2nd or 3rd gear if I'm needing to burn in the stripes).
- Kawasaki Eng - it's a beast

*Current con's*
- there's no whipping this sucker around. You just have to enjoy the ride. 
- It's built for bagging ONLY. No side discharge. Now, you can mulch, but it's not really made for that, and you'll have clippings all over the place. 
- If you are not familiar with a roller, it's a learning curve. I mowed too early on some damp ground and tore up some turf.

Out the door at $2,400. I tried to get them to throw in the groomer brush, but they weren't having it...


----------



## Hapa512

Kdaves12 said:


> Hapa512 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Kdaves12
> 
> Looks awesome so far ! How are you liking that Toro mower. I'm really interested in possibly buying one. I'm in Austin, how much did you pay out the door for that mower?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> So far, I'm loving it. It's definitely been a transition being it's almost double the weight of my other mower.
> 
> *Current pro's*
> - Easy Height adjustment
> - 3 speed transmission (I like the 1st gear for the 1st cut to really focus on the straight lines; then i can crank it up to the 2nd or 3rd gear if I'm needing to burn in the stripes).
> - Kawasaki Eng - it's a beast
> 
> *Current con's*
> - there's no whipping this sucker around. You just have to enjoy the ride.
> - It's built for bagging ONLY. No side discharge. Now, you can mulch, but it's not really made for that, and you'll have clippings all over the place.
> - If you are not familiar with a roller, it's a learning curve. I mowed too early on some damp ground and tore up some turf.
> 
> Out the door at $2,400. I tried to get them to throw in the groomer brush, but they weren't having it...
Click to expand...

That's great to hear, I don't think the price is that far out of line either. Its right in-between a Trucut and Swardman or Allet. I love my Swardman, but sometimes I miss my rotary mower. I didn't think that your mower would be a little hard maneuvering? But I guess with the roller on the back I could see why being the wheels are still on the front.

Thanks for the review and the scoops, I'll need to keep that in mind. I get lazy sometimes so I don't always bag, I like the idea that would force me to bag....LOL Keep the yard looking tight.


----------



## mha2345

27 days post seeding.


----------



## robbybobby

I'm 25 days post seeding and don't have great coverage. I constantly go back and forth whether I was/am watering enough or not...for a while I was throwing down 5 min every 3-4 hours. At one point I started watering for 2 minutes at the top of every hour between 9-5p. I scalped, detached and bagged everything. What's the good word??? Should I back off or persist?

I live in Phx, so temps just recently hit 80s during the day and 50s during the night. Beyond frustrating, considering my neighbor seeded 14 days ago and it's lush as can be. I guess I'll have to throw down more seed...


----------



## Ware

robbybobby said:


> I'm 25 days post seeding and don't have great coverage. I constantly go back and forth whether I was/am watering enough or not...for a while I was throwing down 5 min every 3-4 hours. At one point I started watering for 2 minutes at the top of every hour between 9-5p. I scalped, detached and bagged everything. What's the good word??? Should I back off or persist?
> 
> I live in Phx, so temps just recently hit 80s during the day and 50s during the night. Beyond frustrating, considering my neighbor seeded 14 days ago and it's lush as can be. I guess I'll have to throw down more seed...


When was your last pre-e app? What product and rate?


----------



## robbybobby

@Ware

No Pre-E from my end. I skipped my overseed sections. We did just buy the property in the beginning of September so there could've been something applied from the previous owner unbeknownst to me. IF he were to have applied something on the very last day in his ownership, it would've been a minimum 35 day gap between overseed. I like my odds of zero influence from that.

Anything stand out on the watering? My soil base is sand heavy. My yard drains very well. I've had 14 inches of standing water (flood irrigation) gone in a matter of 6 hours. Wondering if that is playing a role here


----------



## Hapa512

Day 7 and I finally can see germination. Hopefully it grows faster from here. My wife wants to kill me because I've kept the dogs off the lawn for a week...lol can anybody recommend when it would be okay to walk on the lawn ?? Thanks guys


----------



## Thor865

mha2345 said:


> 27 days post seeding.


Perfect! Glad to see yours and everyone's success this year


----------



## Redtenchu

mha2345 said:


> 27 days post seeding.


This would be a great LOTM nomination!


----------



## Hapa512

I learned a lot this go around. I had slow germination, when I prepped the lawn for seed the only fert that I had was PGF complete. So I think that had something to do with the slow germination. I should have just spread some Scott's starter fert, which I ended up doing after 9 days. Then it grew a lot faster, I also dialed my watering down a bit in areas that was getting too saturated and was not germinating, now its germinating. I do have some bare spots here and there, I guess my sprinklers are not giving 100% coverage? I hand water a few times a day in those areas. Also, It seems like the last watering of the day seems to have a bigger impact overnight growth, seems like its growing a lot more when the temps are lower overnight. I did spread some additional seed here and there so I don't plan on mowing for at least the next 4-5 days or so? I'm just a little worried about the areas where I filled in a bit, I don't want to hurt the new seedlings.

I'm on day 12 post seeding. I hope all you guys are having great success with your over seeding !!







I also managed to bribe my daughter into letting me get rid of her trampoline....Ugh...LOL That seed was just planted a few days ago.


----------



## Kdaves12

*Day 19 Post Seeding*
_2nd Mow (HOC 1.13")_

Lots of damp weather over last week; I plan on overseeding with another 5 lbs this week when I have some free time followed by an app of starter fert + Root Hume.


----------



## AllisonN




----------



## Redtwin

@AllisonN, WOW!


----------



## coreystooks

@AllisonN That's got to be some of the best domination I've seen on this site.


----------



## dsotm

Seeded last Tuesday and still not seeing germination, depressing


----------



## Hapa512

Day 14 First Cut.

I used my EGO Rotary mower HOC Was 1.5. I'm going to spread a little more seed today and hopefully my next cut will be with the Swardman. I think I'm just nervous...lol


----------



## Hapa512

dsotm said:


> Seeded last Tuesday and still not seeing germination, depressing


Hang in there, I bet in few more days you'll see some germination. I was in the same down in the dumps mood as you, then all of sudden I had germination.


----------



## AllisonN

coreystooks said:


> @AllisonN That's got to be some of the best domination I've seen on this site.


Lol I couldn't agree more!!


----------



## PokeGrande

Overseeded with PhD in Sep 19th. Seedlings popping up five days later. Double cut today:


----------



## Hapa512

When you guys touch up some bare spots after your first application of over seeding, do you wait a few days or weeks to cut again? Or just keep cutting ? Also do you adjust your watering, or water like you just over seeded ?

Thank you for any insight you might have.


----------



## Kdaves12

AllisonN said:


>


Could you take a few pictures of your landscaping in the front? I'm curious how that looks. Big fan of the sharp turns in your beds and curious what the edging looks like. Keep it up!


----------



## AllisonN

Kdaves12 said:


> AllisonN said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you take a few pictures of your landscaping in the front? I'm curious how that looks. Big fan of the sharp turns in your beds and curious what the edging looks like. Keep it up!
Click to expand...

I certainly will, Thanks


----------



## RollTideDFW

Hi everyone,

I could use an expert here. First year trying Rye. Here's my 30-day review and plea for help. Live in DFW. Thank you!




I did my first over-seed this year with PRG - roughly 5k ft front and back. I moved into the home in September. It looks like previous owners kept it mowed, but that's about it. Since the yard was in bad shape, I thought I'd take a stab at Rye. The PRG has grown in nicely, although there are some bad bare spots due to bad drainage for years. We've redirected the water, but I'm waiting until spring to reno. That said, the bare spots aren't the issue right now. It's that Clover! I wished I had known to do something to address this when it was time to seed. Live and you learn.

Oct 2 - Bermuda scalped from 3", to as low as my Honda will go. 26 bags! - pic attached

Oct 5 - Seed down - Johnson's Champion GQ - Scotts Fert
Oct 12 - Seeded again - PGF Complete (I think I should have used some that wasn't slow release? It was just the only Fert I had left in the garage.)

Oct 23 - first mow
Oct 28 - pic attached
Oct 30 - 2,4-D app to problem areas via hose.

Since the Oct 28 pic, the clover and crabgrass have run wild. I really don't see much of an affect from my Oct 29 App. Some of the clover seems to be folding, but it's rampant. It's hard to tell in the pic, but it's there. I know it's only been a week. I'm also seeing the grass's growth stunted (maybe). I'm not sure if it's the recent mid 70s weather after a spell of cold/wet days, or if it's the weed killer, or if we walked on it too much? It's still looks alright, but it hasn't thickened much at all, and when I cut at 2" on Oct 4, it felt like all I bagged was leaves. grass just looks tired - where I sprayed the killer. It pops in other areas.

I bought weed-b-gone concentrate (Tryclopyr) and surfactant. Will this do the trick?

Thoughts?


----------



## Ware

RollTideDFW said:


> Thoughts?


Your lawn needed fall pre-emergent - not PRG seed.


----------



## RollTideDFW

Ware said:


> RollTideDFW said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> Your lawn needed fall pre-emergent - not PRG seed.
Click to expand...

We'll we're here now. I'm guessing the Rye will always struggle with as much weed killer I'm going to have to put down. What a bummer.


----------



## dsotm

Hapa512 said:


> dsotm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seeded last Tuesday and still not seeing germination, depressing
> 
> 
> 
> Hang in there, I bet in few more days you'll see some germination. I was in the same down in the dumps mood as you, then all of sudden I had germination.
Click to expand...

It looks like it might be starting but spotty, hopefully it fills in quick. Also hoping it's not the bermuda re-greening. I hit it with a heavy PGR dose before I scalped.


----------



## Redtwin

I know some have overseeded with KBG instead of PRG, but has anyone in the warmer states ever considered overseeding with bentgrass? I tried searching but the only results were in cool-season weed ID.

If this is a derail... I can ask to move it to a new topic.


----------



## RangersFC

Day 19 since overseed. There are a few spots that are struggling that I re-seeded a few days ago. Overall pretty happy so far. Up close it's not quite as thick as I expected. I used Lesco overseeding seed blend from Siteone, at a rate of about 15lbs/1k.

Once the tillering process is complete, how thick does this usually get?


----------



## Hapa512

I couldn't help myself, I needed to get a more in today with my Swardman, the rotary left me unsatisfied. Cut at just an inch. Still needs to thicken up lot. Also some bare spots, maybe some driving lessons not used the stripes...lol


----------



## M311att

I haven't been doing a good job with watering....Does perennial rye recover from drought stress or does it just die?


----------



## dsotm

What's everyone doing as far as watering schedule and at what point do you cut back from daily watering?


----------



## lucas287

Can't speak to the recovery/drought abilities of PRG. At around 4 weeks I reduced watering to every 3rd/4th day @ ~ .5". Now that I'm a couple weeks into that I'm going to dial it back to just once/week @ 1". Works for me.

...laid down some doubles this misty morning.


----------



## Kdaves12

After the mow, I put down an extra 5 lbs of seed = 10 lbs total / 1000 sq ft.
Followed by Scotts app + Root Hume to push the seed down. 
Installed 6 new 40 psi spray bodies as half my yard wasn't getting enough water while the other half was getting too much. This should balance that out.


----------



## wiseowl

Day 10, does this look too early to cut still ? I've only got a GM1000 so max HOC is around 1.25" I've pulled on a few of the leaves and they feel solid in the ground. How long has everyone been waiting before their first cut. It looks super long considering I plan on maintaining it at 3/4"


----------



## Ware

wiseowl said:


> Day 10, does this look too early to cut still ? I've only got a GM1000 so max HOC is around 1.25" I've pulled on a few of the leaves and they feel solid in the ground. How long has everyone been waiting before their first cut. It looks super long considering I plan on maintaining it at 3/4"


I would cut it. Just be gentle with turns, etc.


----------



## JPorter

Lawn nuts,

When scalping and then overseeding, if the prg is too wet or saturated bc of rain storms, will it kill it or am I good and just need to wait for a few dry warm days?


----------



## corneliani

Boy, this PRG stripes like mad! My fescue has nothing on it. I'm at close to 2" mowing height since I've been too busy to mow more often.. but I think I'm liking this height for my wooded yard actually.


----------



## jjsmitty

Not great, but not terrible. I'll take it.


----------



## wiseowl

Ware said:


> wiseowl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Day 10, does this look too early to cut still ? I've only got a GM1000 so max HOC is around 1.25" I've pulled on a few of the leaves and they feel solid in the ground. How long has everyone been waiting before their first cut. It looks super long considering I plan on maintaining it at 3/4"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would cut it. Just be gentle with turns, etc.
Click to expand...

Went for a cut!

Day 0







Day 10 (cut at 1.125") mostly it just rolled over, it's a dirty cut but it's cut nonetheless. Did put down another 5LBS with the spreader after the cut. Edging sucked as the rye doesn't hold up the edger like bermuda.


----------



## RangersFC

Sorry if I missed this earlier, but how long after planting my rye overseed should I put down pre-emergent? I'm about 4 weeks since planting. Thanks!


----------



## Kdaves12

RangersFC said:


> Sorry if I missed this earlier, but how long after planting my rye overseed should I put down pre-emergent? I'm about 4 weeks since planting. Thanks!


I might be a little off here, but I believe the magic # is 8+ weeks after germination is safe for pre emergent.

In @Ware PRG thread, he chose to opt out of pre emergent altogether where he overseeded until late winter / early spring once it was time to prepare for his Bermuda to return.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, @Ware


----------



## Hapa512

Question: when you decide to cut your grass do hold off watering for a few days before you mow ? I love the grass but not liking the grass stains on the driveway and the sidewalk.

Thank you for any insight 🤙🏽


----------



## rjw0283

My first year overseeding. Seed down was about a month ago. It looks decent, and while everyone else's grass is starting to go dormant, mine is getting greener. I love it. I'm hooked and will be doing it yearly.


----------



## Redtwin

Hapa512 said:


> Question: when you decide to cut your grass do hold off watering for a few days before you mow ? I love the grass but not liking the grass stains on the driveway and the sidewalk.
> 
> Thank you for any insight 🤙🏽


Is that annual rye or perennial? Annual rye will make a mess like that even if you do hold off watering for a few days.


----------



## Hapa512

Redtwin said:


> Hapa512 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Question: when you decide to cut your grass do hold off watering for a few days before you mow ? I love the grass but not liking the grass stains on the driveway and the sidewalk.
> 
> Thank you for any insight 🤙🏽
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that annual rye or perennial? Annual rye will make a mess like that even if you do hold off watering for a few days.
Click to expand...

@Redtwin That's Champion GQ Perennial Rye grass. I'm thinking it might have been. tad damp from a light rain earlier in the day. I also didn't use a grass catcher.


----------



## PhxHeat

@Hapa512 yeah, that's from it being wet and no catcher. Good thing being perennial, it should clean up fairly easy with a sweep and maybe a quick rinse. If it were annual, you'd get to live with green stains till it faded out.

If you can, mow the afternoon of the last day before it waters again. It will be a much "cleaner" mow.


----------



## Hapa512

PhxHeat said:


> @Hapa512 yeah, that's from it being wet and no catcher. Good thing being perennial, it should clean up fairly easy with a sweep and maybe a quick rinse. If it were annual, you'd get to live with green stains till it faded out.
> 
> If you can, mow the afternoon of the last day before it waters again. It will be a much "cleaner" mow.


@PhxHeat

Thank you for the feedback, yes I'm going to make sure the grass is much more drier before I mow next time. I'm finally getting to the point I back my watering down to a normal twice a week schedule. That should help. As well as using a grass catcher..lol I went with the GQ specifically because I've heard about the nightmares of Annual being very water absorbing and being a complete mess to cut.

Thanks again


----------



## Wfrobinette

Hapa512 said:


> PhxHeat said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Hapa512 yeah, that's from it being wet and no catcher. Good thing being perennial, it should clean up fairly easy with a sweep and maybe a quick rinse. If it were annual, you'd get to live with green stains till it faded out.
> 
> If you can, mow the afternoon of the last day before it waters again. It will be a much "cleaner" mow.
> 
> 
> 
> @PhxHeat
> 
> Thank you for the feedback, yes I'm going to make sure the grass is much more drier before I mow next time. I'm finally getting to the point I back my watering down to a normal twice a week schedule. That should help. As well as using a grass catcher..lol I went with the GQ specifically because I've heard about the nightmares of Annual being very water absorbing and being a complete mess to cut.
> 
> Thanks again
Click to expand...

Catch it!


----------



## Thor865

Kdaves12 said:


> RangersFC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry if I missed this earlier, but how long after planting my rye overseed should I put down pre-emergent? I'm about 4 weeks since planting. Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> I might be a little off here, but I believe the magic # is 8+ weeks after germination is safe for pre emergent.
> 
> In @Ware PRG thread, he chose to opt out of pre emergent altogether where he overseeded until late winter / early spring once it was time to prepare for his Bermuda to return.
> 
> Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, @Ware
Click to expand...

60+ days yours good for pre emergent. Although I never have since I have no weed pressure and any that may pop up I either pull by hand or they get killed with the rye in spring


----------



## Jimefam

I put down some clubhouse PRG last friday. Have been traveling and working a ton lately so hadnt done anything lawn related in quite some time. Finally got a day to work on it and it took 5 passes to get the tiftuf from about 1.5" to .65" or so(lowest I could take the Jacobsen without swapping brackets which I didnt have time for.) Did one quick pass with the sunjoe dethatcher and put down the seed at 20lbs~ per 1k. Watered and left back out of town til this AM. Watered 5 to 7 mins with the rachio every 3 hours or so. 4th day in wife said it rained very hard for about 45 mins. Came back today and its super spotty. Its been 9 days now should I cut it in a few days and put down some more seed in the bare areas or is there still a chance some more will germinate? Could it have been washed out in parts? I laid the seed down in a few different directions but not liking how it looks at all.


----------



## RangersFC

Day 28, and oh my this is looking pretty dang good. If this keeps thickening up, I may just like this stuff better than my Tiffany 419. However, there are still a few stubborn spots that haven't grown in at all. But, this sure beats a brown turf all winter.


----------



## rjw0283

RangersFC said:


> Day 28, and oh my this is looking pretty dang good. If this keeps thickening up, I may just like this stuff better than my Tiffany 419. However, there are still a few stubborn spots that haven't grown in at all. But, this sure beats a brown turf all winter.


I am with you, I love this stuff. My backyard looks awesome, and I don't have to worry about scalping whenever I hit a uneven spot in my sloping back yard. This has me really thinking about joining the SPF 30 hybrid bluegrass club for my backyard. (It's hilly and shady, and Bermuda doesn't thrive.) Plus the SPF will stay green all year round. Bermuda will stay in the front, but I'll probably kill everything in the backyard next fall and roll with something less prone to scalping and more shade tolerant.


----------



## Kdaves12

Itching to mow, but I'm going to wait just a little bit longer to let the additional 5 lbs of seed settle in. 
the 3rd picture with the two durations represents the 1st round of seed (5lbs) & and the 2nd round of seed (5lbs).

the bare spots are finally starting to fill in.





Anyone else having issues with sedge coming in with all the watering required?


----------



## wiseowl

Are you guys still applying PGR after the overseed? My PGR app I hit the tif419 with is about to expire.


----------



## Lawndry List

Original Toro striping kit arrived busted, finally got my new one in & put down my first stripes on the Champion GQ PRG!


----------



## wiseowl

RangersFC said:


> Day 28, and oh my this is looking pretty dang good. If this keeps thickening up, I may just like this stuff better than my Tiffany 419. However, there are still a few stubborn spots that haven't grown in at all. But, this sure beats a brown turf all winter.


This looks fantastic, what HOC? I really need to remove the dummy rollers off the outside of my GM1000, the stripes you have are 👌


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## RangersFC

I'm currently at .75in for HOC. The stripes are a ton of fun


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## DFWLawnNut

Got a mow in today. Bermuda is still hanging on with this warm November. Rye has germinated everywhere I just wish it would thicken up and really get going.


----------



## AllisonN

Kdaves12 said:


> AllisonN said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you take a few pictures of your landscaping in the front? I'm curious how that looks. Big fan of the sharp turns in your beds and curious what the edging looks like. Keep it up!
Click to expand...

It's been a hot min since I've been home but these are hopefully closer for you.


----------



## Hapa512

Got myself a mow in today. I hit the one month mark from seeding today. So far I'm happy about the front. Not too happy about the back. My dogs pretty much ruined it with all there per...almost to the point I may spray it out so I don't have to look at it...lol I appreciate Bermuda even more now...!!


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## Kdaves12

Oh, how 12 days of patience can pay off. Still some thin areas, but I need to stay patient. The shaded area that barely shows on the bottom of the photos are still struggling, but being this is my first attempt at PRG, I'm going to focus on the positives.


----------



## zcabe

I set a bomb off on mine Sunday. Went out with 36oz of Lesco Chelated Micro Mix, 36oz of Lesco 12-0-0 w/ 6% Iron, 36oz of Griggs Carboplex, and the rest of my bag of powdered blend of Mycorrhizae, Humic, Fulvic, and Sea Kelp. Unexpected rainfall that same evening to water it all in as well I can't wait to see how it responds.


----------



## wiseowl

wiseowl said:


> Are you guys still applying PGR after the overseed? My PGR app I hit the tif419 with is about to expire.


Anyone still keeping up their pgr apps?


----------



## Thisguy

Happy Thanksgiving PRG


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## zcabe

My camera focusing causes the picture to appear more luminescent and lime green than in person.


----------



## M311att

Ewing Birdie @ .25 in Memphis


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## Kdaves12

Day 46 since first 5 lbs of PRG
Day 19 since second 5 lbs of PRG
Still having trouble with shaded area, but it is definitely still germinating in that spot, just a little slower. 
We got a little rain over the weekend, so I'm hoping that puts the remaining seed into gear.

HOC - 1.13"


----------



## RollTideDFW

Hey Everyone,

Never done PRG before. Moved into this house in August and it was a complete salad bar. But honestly, I didn't know how bad the problem actually was, simply because I've never paid this much attention to my grass. I scalped and laid down the PRG shortly after moving in, mainly to cover that massive bare spot. I posted on here about 30 days ago, crying for help on Herbicides to deal with all the weeds coming up with my Rye. @Ware's response was a funny one (not quite as funny at the time), "You should have done Pre M, not PRG..." Welp, too late now!!

The point here is that my lawn is far from perfect, but it's much better than my neighbors, and that's all that matters . I've made a lot of mistakes along the way, but I'm really happy with my incredibly average, first attempt at PRG. Will be fun to compare this to pics next year with a much better understanding of what NOT to do.





Quick Question, cold front came through this week in Dallas after what has been a very mild fall. Should I expect more/less/similar growth from this Rye compared to what I've seen since early Oct?


----------



## Dozer32

what fertilizer can I use to make the ryegrass grow like crazy?


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## Kdaves12

Relaxing mow followed up with an app of Root Hume 10oz/1K
HOC = .98"


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## Kdaves12

Another mow @ .98" HOC




I noticed some of these blades around different areas in my lawn. I'm assuming red thread, but I'm not positive.

Suggestions?


----------



## AFBiker2011

Any recommendations for a safe Pre emergent herbicide that can be applied to a (PRG) overseeded warm season grass? Safe for the ryegrass I mean. I had a frustrating amount of spurge, virginia button weed, crabgrass, and purple nutsedge this past year. I would like to get a jump on it for next year, if at all possible.

I live in Northwest Florida and I'm about 1 week post-germination for PRG.


----------



## Thor865

AFBiker2011 said:


> Any recommendations for a safe Pre emergent herbicide that can be applied to a (PRG) overseeded warm season grass? Safe for the ryegrass I mean. I had a frustrating amount of spurge, virginia button weed, crabgrass, and purple nutsedge this past year. I would like to get a jump on it for next year, if at all possible.
> 
> I live in Northwest Florida and I'm about 1 week post-germination for PRG.


60 days for prodiamine


----------



## AFBiker2011

60 days for prodiamine
[/quote]

Thank you @Thor865


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## Kdaves12

Any noobs still wigging out that you have green grass in December?
I sure am. It's extremely addicting.

Friday 12/18

Prophecy Fungicide app
16-4-8 SLS app
Root Hume app

Sunday 12/20

mild dethatch work
mow = .82" HOC


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## rjw0283

Kdaves12 said:


> Any noobs still wigging out that you have green grass in December?
> I sure am. It's extremely addicting.
> 
> Friday 12/18
> 
> Prophecy Fungicide app
> 16-4-8 SLS app
> Root Hume app
> 
> Sunday 12/20
> 
> mild dethatch work
> mow = .82" HOC


I love it. Normally my dogs roll after the dormant bermuda and get dead grass all over the house. I don't have that problem anymore. I'm seriously looking into something that doesn't go dormant for my backyard. Maybe some hybrid bluegrass


----------



## Kdaves12




----------



## bholland1012

Quick snap on my way home today


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## PhxHeat

3/4" cut


----------



## Phxphenom

LOTM!



PhxHeat said:


> 3/4" cut


----------



## PhxHeat

@Phxphenom
hahaha lol no. :lol:


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## Hapa512

Its nice to be the different house on the block or in the neighborhood... LOL I need to do a cut in the next few day's and lay down some stripes...


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## M311att

For those of you that have done this a few times, what can be expected as we come out of winter? Does PRG generally get fuller? Does it come back in dog pee spots? Can bare spots be reseeded with any hope of success with avg soil temps in the 40's? What happens as the winter shaded spots start to see more light as the same n position changes? Thanks.


----------



## Kdaves12




----------



## MasterMech

M311att said:


> For those of you that have done this a few times, what can be expected as we come out of winter? Does PRG generally get fuller? Does it come back in dog pee spots? Can bare spots be reseeded with any hope of success with avg soil temps in the 40's? What happens as the winter shaded spots start to see more light as the same n position changes? Thanks.


The Dog Pee spots are usually permanent. Re-seed is possible but after Thanksgiving, I wouldn't bother. PRG does tiller out and give a fuller appearance if you cut frequently and use a little PGR, but only if it's growing vigorously.


----------



## The_iHenry

Here's mine:


----------



## Don_Bass

Not The Best But Here's Mine. Hoc @ 1/2


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## Kdaves12

My PRG is definitely starting to struggle a little bit in certain areas after the snow we got last week. 
Regardless, I've definitely enjoyed my 1st year doing this overseed. It's been great.

Questions

When is a right time to start killing off the PRG to get ready for my Bermuda to come back?

What product do you suggest for the kill-off? I've read MSM or Certainty in several threads regarding PRG.

1/17/2021
HOC w/ my Toro Prostripe = *.67"*


----------



## MasterMech

Kdaves12 said:


> My PRG is definitely starting to struggle a little bit in certain areas after the snow we got last week.
> Regardless, I've definitely enjoyed my 1st year doing this overseed. It's been great.
> 
> Questions
> 
> When is a right time to start killing off the PRG to get ready for my Bermuda to come back?
> 
> What product do you suggest for the kill-off? I've read MSM or Certainty in several threads regarding PRG.
> 
> 1/17/2021
> HOC w/ my Toro Prostripe = *.67"*


I would watch other lawns in the area and when you see them start to turn, that's when I'd kill off the PRG. I've used MSM for the task, but be very careful with it. It will kill shrubs and trees at relatively low application rates. I like the idea of going out with Certainty or Celsius in the spring as it will kill the PRG, and knock down many other weeds that may have slipped as well.


----------



## Kdaves12

MasterMech said:


> I would watch other lawns in the area and when you see them start to turn, that's when I'd kill off the PRG. I've used MSM for the task, but be very careful with it. It will kill shrubs and trees at relatively low application rates. I like the idea of going out with Certainty or Celsius in the spring as it will kill the PRG, and knock down many other weeds that may have slipped as well.


Thanks @MasterMech
I think I'm going go the Certainty/Celsius combo; that's the direction I was leaning, so this just put me over the edge.
Since I didn't overseed the front, I'll base my spray timeline on that. When you say "start to turn", what percentage of green up would you suggest I wait for before spraying the PRG?
10%? 25%? 50%?


----------



## MasterMech

Kdaves12 said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would watch other lawns in the area and when you see them start to turn, that's when I'd kill off the PRG. I've used MSM for the task, but be very careful with it. It will kill shrubs and trees at relatively low application rates. I like the idea of going out with Certainty or Celsius in the spring as it will kill the PRG, and knock down many other weeds that may have slipped as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks @MasterMech
> I think I'm going go the Certainty/Celsius combo; that's the direction I was leaning, so this just put me over the edge.
> Since I didn't overseed the front, I'll base my spray timeline on that. When you say "start to turn", what percentage of green up would you suggest I wait for before spraying the PRG?
> 10%? 25%? 50%?
Click to expand...

I'd get after it as soon as you see active growth from the Bermuda. The sooner the rye is gone and the Bermuda scalped, the faster your soil temps will come up and further encourage the Bermuda.


----------



## Hapa512

Kdaves12 said:


> My PRG is definitely starting to struggle a little bit in certain areas after the snow we got last week.
> Regardless, I've definitely enjoyed my 1st year doing this overseed. It's been great.
> 
> Questions
> 
> When is a right time to start killing off the PRG to get ready for my Bermuda to come back?
> 
> What product do you suggest for the kill-off? I've read MSM or Certainty in several threads regarding PRG.
> 
> 1/17/2021
> HOC w/ my Toro Prostripe = *.67"*


I'm in Georgetown TX, similar temps to yours. My PRG is also struggling a bit due to the snow. I'm planning on spraying it out sometime at the end of April? I think the warmer the temps, the more effective either MSM or Certainty will work. I have very limited shrubs or trees. If I go with MSM, I'll make sure that there is zero wind when I'm spraying.

I would just keep monitoring the temps over the next few months. Last year I over seeded my Tif 419 with Arden 15 and the temps stayed pretty cool till the end of May. This year seems a bit warmer despite the snow....LOL


----------



## rjw0283

I plan to spray the PRG around the end of March with Certainty. I'll be spraying it with my Prodiamine pre-emergent APP, since I'll be out there spraying. Certainty is good, because it'll also kill off any POA if you have any in there.


----------



## thompwa

Starting to read the label on my bottle of MSM Turf as I plan my spring kill off of the PRG overseed. I was going to follow @Ware's overseed thread from a few years ago and do a split application at 0.5oz/acre and 0.75oz/acre. Doing the math on how much that is over 4000sqft is hilarious. I'm not even sure my tiny kitchen scale goes that low. I have heard to be careful around my shrubs I may see about bagging them when I get close. Anyone else using MSM?


----------



## Bmossin

thompwa said:


> Starting to read the label on my bottle of MSM Turf as I plan my spring kill off of the PRG overseed. I was going to follow @Ware's overseed thread from a few years ago and do a split application at 0.5oz/acre and 0.75oz/acre. Doing the math on how much that is over 4000sqft is hilarious. I'm not even sure my tiny kitchen scale goes that low. I have heard to be careful around my shrubs I may see about bagging them when I get close. Anyone else using MSM?


 I remember right for my first application I did 0.65 grams over 2,000 square feet. For my second, 1 gram over 2,000 square feet.


----------



## thompwa

Bmossin said:


> thompwa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Starting to read the label on my bottle of MSM Turf as I plan my spring kill off of the PRG overseed. I was going to follow @Ware's overseed thread from a few years ago and do a split application at 0.5oz/acre and 0.75oz/acre. Doing the math on how much that is over 4000sqft is hilarious. I'm not even sure my tiny kitchen scale goes that low. I have heard to be careful around my shrubs I may see about bagging them when I get close. Anyone else using MSM?
> 
> 
> 
> I remember right for my first application I did 0.65 grams over 2,000 square feet. For my second, 1 gram over 2,000 square feet.
Click to expand...

It sounds like I need to get a better kitchen scale. Mine is cheap (in oz) and only goes to one decimal place so in cases like this it's mostly worthless.


----------



## thompwa

Bmossin said:


> thompwa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Starting to read the label on my bottle of MSM Turf as I plan my spring kill off of the PRG overseed. I was going to follow @Ware's overseed thread from a few years ago and do a split application at 0.5oz/acre and 0.75oz/acre. Doing the math on how much that is over 4000sqft is hilarious. I'm not even sure my tiny kitchen scale goes that low. I have heard to be careful around my shrubs I may see about bagging them when I get close. Anyone else using MSM?
> 
> 
> 
> I remember right for my first application I did 0.65 grams over 2,000 square feet. For my second, 1 gram over 2,000 square feet.
Click to expand...

It sounds like I need to get a better kitchen scale. Mine is cheap (in oz) and only goes to one decimal place so in cases like this it's mostly worthless. I will be sad to see the grass go though.


----------



## Kdaves12

Hapa512 said:


> I'm in Georgetown TX, similar temps to yours. My PRG is also struggling a bit due to the snow. I'm planning on spraying it out sometime at the end of April? I think the warmer the temps, the more effective either MSM or Certainty will work. I have very limited shrubs or trees. If I go with MSM, I'll make sure that there is zero wind when I'm spraying.
> 
> I would just keep monitoring the temps over the next few months. Last year I over seeded my Tif 419 with Arden 15 and the temps stayed pretty cool till the end of May. This year seems a bit warmer despite the snow....LOL


Thanks @Hapa512 
I have March 15th scheduled on my phone to spray my PRG contingent on my Bermuda's status. I'll push it back if need be.

Since I plan on combining Celsius & Certainty together, I want to make sure doing a blanket spray (rather than spot treating) won't harm my Bermuda from bouncing back.

If anyone objects, throw up the red flag.


----------



## Don_Bass




----------



## M311att

Not great but here is my back yard.


----------



## Kdaves12




----------



## Dozer32




----------



## RangersFC

Loving the PRG over winter. The stripes and color are great.


----------



## Hapa512

I'm going to be bummed when I nuke this rye grass off !!! It was a fun time trying this !!


----------



## Ware

All looking great!


----------



## gwolf64

I just bought some MSM from Amazon. My PRG is declining in most areas.... (different topic) When are folks starting to kill? I'm in Atlanta, GA.


----------



## thompwa

gwolf64 said:


> I just bought some MSM from Amazon. My PRG is declining in most areas.... (different topic) When are folks starting to kill? I'm in Atlanta, GA.


I'm going to do the first of 2 applications of MSM within the next week. It works so slow I want to start plenty early. I'll probably wait about 2 weeks between applications and then scalp shortly after the second application.


----------



## PhxHeat

Lowered the height to just under 3/8" on my PRG.
I think mine stripes better when it's 1/2" or taller, but I really like cutting it shorter.


----------



## M311att

What happens to PRG when it's covered in snow for a week?


----------



## MasterMech

M311att said:


> What happens to PRG when it's covered in snow for a week?


Nothing. I've had fairways (1/2" PRG) buried for 90+ days and no problems.


----------



## Trippel24

RangersFC said:


> Loving the PRG over winter. The stripes and color are great.


Looks really nice! Are you in Fresno as well?


----------



## jim7white

One more month of stripes....


----------



## RangersFC

Trippel24 said:


> RangersFC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Loving the PRG over winter. The stripes and color are great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks really nice! Are you in Fresno as well?
Click to expand...

I'm in Clovis  so just next door.


----------



## Jimefam

Thinking about putting down the first application of MSM this weekend. North metro Atlanta area. Anyone start killing this off yet? What about putting down some pre-em while I am at it?


----------



## Kdaves12

jim7white said:


> One more month of stripes....


Looks great. What's your kill-off date?


----------



## thompwa

Jimefam said:


> Thinking about putting down the first application of MSM this weekend. North metro Atlanta area. Anyone start killing this off yet? What about putting down some pre-em while I am at it?


North Alabama here. Just did mine this past weekend, I think I would do preM first and get it watered in before I put down msm. One is foliar and one needs to get down into the soil. May not matter but seems like that would be logical


----------



## CLT49er

Without irrigation, how long into the summer would rye make it? Charlotte NC


----------



## Jack2012




----------

