# Let's put this to bed - MP Rotator VS. Rainbird RVAN



## por77w

Hi all, absolutely stuck with what rotor head to get for my irrigation system. My water pressure at the house and meter is 30PSI. I've read a lot about both but can't decide. I'm going with a Hunter Hydrawise Controller. Can anyone sway me either way? Have watched all the youtube videos, but no conclusive winner. Thanks!


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## rotolow

No need to overthink this. They both do exactly what they say they will do.

I converted a bunch of MP's to RVAN's because I enjoyed the tool-less adjustment and my irrigation supply seemed to have plenty in stock.


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## bernstem

It is entirely personal preference. I use MP Rotator because RVANs weren't available when I put in my irrigation.


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## NeVs

I prefer the slower spin of mp rotators. May just be a mind trick but it just looks more consistent.


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## jht3

I'm all rain bird bodies so I converted a zone from van sprays to rvan rotators.

No personal experience with mps but couldn't be happier with the rvans. Except for the blue nozzles, I couldn't get the throw from them so bumped up to yellow. I don't know the pressure at the head but I have the RB regulated bodies


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## SCGrassMan

I would focus more on irrigation controller settings, head to head coverage, and system design aspects aside from the heads honestly. At the end of the day, its about getting the water down evenly on the grass.


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## BadDogPSD

I converted most of our lawn area from sprays to RVAN's last year. I had one area that needed a bit longer throw, so I put MP Rotators in that area. I think I have around 80 RVAN nozzles and 13 of the MP's. All are in Rainbird SAM-P45 bodies.

RVAN 
Pro's- The tool less adjustment is nice, easy to clear by pulling up on nozzle, was less $$ than Hunter. Less different nozzles required due to more adjustment available.
Con's- The tool less adjustment seems to adjust on it's own sometimes. Not sure if this is from being stepped on, dogs playing, or what. Seems every watering day, I need to clear 2-3 nozzles. Not always the same ones. They just either stop rotating or sputter. The blue (8'-14') seem to be the most problematic.
Rotator
Pro's- They just seem to work. I don't need to fiddle with them.
Con's- Cost a bit more, need a tool to adjust, but once adjusted, they haven't need to be adjusted since. Depending on needs for coverage, you may need to have more different nozzles. Not a big deal, but I like to keep a couple spares around just in case some get damaged.

If I were to do it again I would go all Hunter.


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## bernstem

You can easily turn the silver adjustment ring by hand. No tool needed on MP Rotators. I know I have never used one.


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## spaceman_spiff

I just pulled 20 various Rainbird heads/nozzles from my lawn and replaced them all with PRS40 pressure-regulating heads and MP1000 Rotator 90-210' nozzles. I can't remember the exact reason why I went with MP over RVANs, but here I am.

Anyway, I'll start with my annoyances:
- Having to adjust the throw with the key or screwdriver. Same for standard Rainbirds I suppose.
- Having to adjust the arc with the key when my standard Rainbirds in another zone easily twist with 2 fingers. 
- When you adjust the left side of the nozzle, you have to crank the stem clockwise, or else you will probably unscrew the head from the riser. If you go a bit too far, then you have to turn it all the way around. It's like going 1 minute over when trying to set the time on a digital clock that doesn't go backwards. Not a huge, deal, but annoying since I usually have really wet hands when adjusting sprinklers and it makes it difficult.
- When reducing the arc in a counter-clockwise direction, this will often start unscrewing the nozzle.
- Not being able to flush the nozzle without taking it completely off and soaking yourself in the process. If you need to rinse it out, you need to get one of your kids to hold the stem while you go run it under the sink water and clean it out, or some kind of locking pliers to hold it while you do your thing.
- I'd say that 10% of mine busted shortly after installation. More specifically, adjusting the throw distance with the key did nothing. The screw spun around, but it didn't actually adjust anything.
- Another thing that broke was adjusting the arc, even while holding the bottom of the nozzle, turned the left edge as well. So if I wanted to reduce it from, say 180 to 90 degrees, I'd turn the key counter-clockwise. It would just aim the nozzle a different direction, still at 180 degree arc. Super weird.
- I have to adjust the edges to go slightly wider than I'd want. It seems like it takes 15 degrees or so to 'ramp up' to full stream to get the full distance on the throw. So, I'm ending up with some water on my sidewalk and driveway if I want it to be full stream when it hits my grass. No clue if RVANs do this as well?
- Cost. $7-8/head and $6-8/nozzle ain't cheap, even if I only replaced 21 heads.

The good:
- Low precipitation rate!
- Looks cool!
- More even distribution of water!
- Got rid of a schmorgasborg of random Rainbird/Orbit heads and nozzles that were super inconsistent.
- Once you set your arc/throw, it seems to stay put pretty well.

I know it sounds like I'm dumping all over MP Rotators, but I do like them. If I had to do a complete redo, I have no idea if I'd go RVANs or not. The MP Rotators are at my local Home Depot, while the RVANs are not, which is a huge advantage when I need to replace a couple.

I'm also having a weird issue in my sloped front lawn now where my risers are cracking and causing flooding. I have to replace the coupling between the PVC and my head. My system is 20 years old, so I have no idea if the risers are just old and dying, or if putting nothing but 40PSI-regulating heads on everything is doing something with the pressure in the PVC lines.


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## GHTech

Hi @spaceman_spiff

I am glad I found your thread. I also have a similar setup with PRS40's and MP3500, and am seeing a few things that you saw. I see the ramp up issue, and am also seeing a pressure drop at each head that does not make sense. Looks like I might replace the PRS40's with regular bodies.

Regards,

GHTech


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## dbsoccer

Does the MP Rotator direct spray close in - in front of the head - as well as at the set radius? The Rainbird U-series nozzle has two spray orifices - one for close in and the top one for distance. I am wondering how the MP Rotator addresses the close in issue.


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## spaceman_spiff

dbsoccer said:


> Does the MP Rotator direct spray close in - in front of the head - as well as at the set radius? The Rainbird U-series nozzle has two spray orifices - one for close in and the top one for distance. I am wondering how the MP Rotator addresses the close in issue.


It does have various angled ports for different distances, but right by the head is pretty questionable. You'll probably get dry spots. That's the reason you want head-to-head coverage, so heads A and C are getting the area around head B.

A --- B --- C


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## burntfire

For rotators I go MP for a variety of reasons that have been mentioned above.

The real question though is.. why are you going rotators vs fixed sprays?


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## Ware

Yeah I see it as a Ford vs. Chevy thing. And as @SCGrassMan mentioned, doing everything else right will have a more significant impact on your system's performance than choosing the Hunter or Rainbird nozzles.


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## dbsoccer

spaceman_spiff said:


> dbsoccer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does the MP Rotator direct spray close in - in front of the head - as well as at the set radius? The Rainbird U-series nozzle has two spray orifices - one for close in and the top one for distance. I am wondering how the MP Rotator addresses the close in issue.
> 
> 
> 
> It does have various angled ports for different distances, but right by the head is pretty questionable. You'll probably get dry spots. That's the reason you want head-to-head coverage, so heads A and C are getting the area around head B.
> 
> A --- B --- C
Click to expand...

Yep, my spacing is such that I get the requisite 100% overlap. In fact I have very good overlap in most areas of this section of the lawn from several heads yet I seem to have a couple of spots that dry out. I need to drag out my catch cans again and see if I can locate an issue. The drying out may be totally unrelated to water coverage but I do like the U-Series nozzles for their close in watering orfice. Thanks Spaceman!


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## spaceman_spiff

dbsoccer said:


> spaceman_spiff said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dbsoccer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does the MP Rotator direct spray close in - in front of the head - as well as at the set radius? The Rainbird U-series nozzle has two spray orifices - one for close in and the top one for distance. I am wondering how the MP Rotator addresses the close in issue.
> 
> 
> 
> It does have various angled ports for different distances, but right by the head is pretty questionable. You'll probably get dry spots. That's the reason you want head-to-head coverage, so heads A and C are getting the area around head B.
> 
> A --- B --- C
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep, my spacing is such that I get the requisite 100% overlap. In fact I have very good overlap in most areas of this section of the lawn from several heads yet I seem to have a couple of spots that dry out. I need to drag out my catch cans again and see if I can locate an issue. The drying out may be totally unrelated to water coverage but I do like the U-Series nozzles for their close in watering orfice. Thanks Spaceman!
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that if you have a mix of shady and sunny areas within a zone, even if you have even distribution of water, the grass will perform differently within the same zone. I just had to go re-configure all of mine with the higher PR MP Rotators (800/815/etc) for my sunny areas to get a bit more water than my shady areas. It sucks, but when irrigation systems are designed for new houses, they have immature trees around them. Then as the years go by, they end up putting a bunch of your zone into shade. I deal with it in every single one of my zones.


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## dbsoccer

I hear you Spaceman. I know one part of this area has a 'not as much shade' issue. I need to tweet the nozzle size. There is always something. But what else is there to do.....

Thanks.


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## gorgedude

My only complaint is my 3500's have stopped rotating. Plenty of pressure and volume. Not sure what the fix is. No problem with the 1000's - 3000's.


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## spaceman_spiff

gorgedude said:


> My only complaint is my 3500's have stopped rotating. Plenty of pressure and volume. Not sure what the fix is. No problem with the 1000's - 3000's.


Have you pulled the nozzles off to visually inspect them, and the screen/filter? Also, while it is running, push down on the top and it could flush some junk out as well. I also just had a head with rocks inside. Didn't make it into the nozzle, but it lowered the flow rate. Would probably be worth it to either take the whole head off for inspection or unscrew the top, pull the spring and guts and check it out with a flash light.

But yeah, sometimes they get junked up enough that it's easier just to toss them in the trash and plop on a new one.


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## wiseowl

The biggest difference is going to be precip rates. The other is flexibility as your spacing and pressure regulated heads will also drive your decision slightly.

Precip rate might help with your decision based on any sort of watering restrictions or possible run off or slopes you may have. Ie you have regulations and need shorter run times so you need more precip per hour. I think we all look at rotator nozzles to prevent run off and do more cycle and soaks but it's still something to consider.

One thing I will mention is on a 30 psi regulated body and the 25% reduction on an MP1000 it becomes pretty worthless, the nozzle stops rotating so they're not great if you have a less than 6' space you need to irrigate. The MP800's came out but the precip rate is doubled to .8 from .4 in/hr so you _shouldnt_ mix and match in a zone.

I went with MP1000 and 2000's with a few of the 45's and side strips. I prefer the lower precip rate because I have terrible California clay soil so less is more. Where I had to turn down MP1000's I actually put in 2000's because with a 25% reduction on my 30psi regulated heads it put my spray in the sweet spot and I did not have the nozzle stopping that you get with a 1000 at full 25% reduction.

That's really the main difference other than marketing, you can clean out an MP while it's running by pushing the top of the nozzle down slightly and it literally cleans itself when it goes back into the body.

That's my nickel


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## dbsoccer

In August (above) I mentioned I had a dry/dead spot that some around the water cooler felt was caused by grubs. I thought it was caused by more sun exposure than other parts in this same section of lawn. I switched my heads to RB 30psi and ran a catch cup test. I learned the dry spot was dry because it wasn't getting water. A nozzle (U-series Q15) closest to the dry area was working but was apparently partially plugged. I switched the nozzle and, presto, a repeat of the catch cup test showed a match with other parts of this area.

So now I scratching my head (risking loosing what little hair I have left). I felt the U-series nozzle was an improvement over the mpr nozzle. I tried the HE-VAN nozzle for a short while but switched back to the U-series. Now I'm thinking I need to give some thought to either the MP Rotator or the RVAN. I sense that there is basically a personal preference difference between these two nozzle types in that they perform about the same.

While my catch cup test cleared the issue I found with the plugged nozzle, over all, the distribution uniformity across the entire area is no good. But it should be easy. I have 5 heads in a slightly odd shaped rectangle-ish area that are pretty close to being spot-on 15ft head-to-head in all directions (2 triangles). So spacing is not an issue. My pressure is quite high at time which is why I went with the 30psi head. The test shows that the areas of lower precipitation are not logically where I expect them to be and they are scattered around the area. So I am suspecting a nozzle issue - maybe I have other plugged nozzles?

So my question is what can be expected from a uniformity perspective, switching from my current U-series to either of these more recent technology nozzles? Obviously the cost for five nozzles is minimal (as would be replacing what I have assuming they may be partially plugged) but I don't want to waste even the time switching if there is no potential for improvement. I feel this is a rhetorical question and that, obviously, the newer technology is much improved over the older stuff.

Thanks for any insight.


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## burntfire

@dbsoccer

In theory all nozzles will be uniform assuming they're the same brand/type and are of the MPR type.

The U-series nozzles are fantastic for what their purpose is. I normally see more of a blockage problem with the 8' and below nozzles compared to the larger ones (10,12 etc). As far as your plugged one, have you cleaned the filter? Get a cup with some warm water and a dab of soap and submerge/shake the filter along with the nozzle for about a minute or so.

If that doesn't solve the issue try getting any dirt/sand out out of the orfice with a bobby pin (or something similar). Alternatively you can just purchase a new nozzle.

I don't have a ton of experience with the RVAN as the MPs are more abundant in my area. I do know that the RVAN throws more precipitation down at I believe .6 compared to the MP of .4 so keep that in mind. Theoretically it's heavier water droplets which will help cut against the wind. Either will be great but I would look at your soil type and if you have an issue with runoff.

With that being said if you're at 15' I would definitely look at either compared to a fixed spray since as I don't like going over 12' with them.


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## MidTN37087

I originally installed R-Vans in the front. I ended up testing MP rotators in one zone and liked the consistency they provided. I've since switched all my rotor nozzles to MP's. Ran them all season long with no issues.


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