# What reel for higher HOC?



## Reddog90 (Aug 30, 2018)

I am in the market for my first reel mower. I keep reading that a reel mower cuts best when FOC approximately equals HOC. I've read on here several times that 11 and 14 blade reels are best for very low HOCs like on putting greens. I have also found some articles online explaining how to calculate FOC using blade count, mower speed, and RPM. I have no idea how fast a mower I might buy will run, and I don't know what RPM I will run it at. I anticipate mowing just under an inch becauseI don't want to mow 3x a week. I am looking at 180bs and 180cs because I have a relatively small yard with lots of obstacles. Most of them are set up with 11 blade reels. Do I really need to hold out for something with a 7 blade reel or can I make adjustments with RPM and walking speed for an 11 blade reel to cut well at a higher HOC? Thanks.


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## crussell (Mar 12, 2018)

You are correct in your research, however at some point the rule of matching your FOC to your HOC has to go out the window.

I can't find the link for the John Deere shop manual, but I'm sure somebody here can share it. It provides a chart with the FOC rates for different reels.

Just going off of memory, I think even a 7-Blade reel only has a FOC of around .29" (just over 1/4"). I did the same research you are doing when I replaced the reels on my John Deere's, and realized that you can only do so much.

I settled on a 9-Blade for my 220B, and a 7-Blade for my 260B. Both perform very well at .70"-1.00" HOC despite their FOC only being around .25"-.30".

I don't believe the 180's have an option for a reel below 11-Blades, you would have to look at a 220 or 260. But, you'll find a lot of people use the 180's and I'm sure they can tell you they mow just fine with 11 blades!

The Toro's may have other options, I know they sell a "clip kit" that reduces the reel drive ratio. This paired with an appropriate reel may improve FOC but I haven't looked this far into it.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Most greens mowers are geared so that FOC remains constant at any engine RPM - ground speed and reel speed increase/decrease proportionally.

Toro offers an optional "clip kit" for higher HOC's - I'm not sure if JD does.

FOC is important, but you can have a nice looking lawn with an 11-blade reel. A 7-blade reel might be closer to ideal cutting conditions, but 1" bermuda cut with an 11-blade reel is still going to look much better than bermuda cut with a rotary. It's all relative.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

crussell beat me to it. :thumbup:


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## Jacob_S (May 22, 2018)

My mower has an 11 blade reel and has adjustable FOC via a little knob. I have been maintaining 1" HOC since buying it until this year I dropped to .75", but even at 1" I was mowing 3 times a week to keep up with growth rate and not have brown every time I mowed.


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## Reddog90 (Aug 30, 2018)

Thanks for the input guys.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

7 blade reels have more benefits for us homeowners than just the FOC too. But 11+ blades isn't the kiss of death. Far from it. At worst, you might have to double-cut.

The most important (and most economical) optimization is going to be in the bedknife and bed shoe. Some brands control the angle of attack with just the bedknife geometry. Toro offers different bed shoes/bed bars for different bedknife positions. A bedknife meant for cutting greens at .120" isn't going to be a star performer at .500", let alone at 1". The bedknives that work best for us homeowners are typically called "high-cut" or "fairway" knives and are at least .200" thick. If you get a floating head machine, you can adjust the angle of attack independently of the height and that can make all the difference as well. One caveat however, most floating head setups are not meant to cut above .500"


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## Reddog90 (Aug 30, 2018)

@MasterMech thanks for that. I had read that your bedknife setup is important as well, but I wasn't sure how. I found a good deal on some used flex21s that need love, but I also remember reading a while back that most floating head machines max out under my target HOC.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

crussell said:


> You are correct in your research, however at some point the rule of matching your FOC to your HOC has to go out the window.


Agreed. My manual states reel speed settings on my 3100D for various mowing heights and drive speeds. While they may be mathematically correct, it's basically impossible to maintain the speeds and specific parameters that go into those calculations, so it means nothing. I've had to play with it and see what gives the smoothest cut.

In general I've been advised to toss the manual in terms of real world maintenance. Im seeing the wisdom in all that now. Use it for reference, part numbers, etc - but following it to the letter can be counterproductive. And then there are important things they leave out. These manuals are generally written by the design engineers not the people keeping them running every day.

I cut at a higher HOC for a reel. I have the high cut blade from R&R installed and am at about 1.5 inches. Reels in general dont cut tall grass well. If mine gets above 3 inches like it did last summer during travel stints the reels start missing blades and you have to go over it multiple times.


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

I don't know if it's just me, but I see a noticeable improvement in aftercut appearance with better FOC-to-HOC ratios in @wardconnor's Reel Mower Showdown video. His 1600 (8 blade reel) gives a smoother finish while the 1000 (11 blade reel) appears somewhat scraggly IMO. Though you only notice it when he's down on the ground, so even when your FOC-to-HOC is off, aftercut appearance will still be better than a rotary.


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