# When to overseed Fescue in the south



## Wilbursan (Jul 30, 2017)

I may need to ask this in the warm season lawns but thinking you guys may know more about Fescue. I'm in north Alabama and it's really common to not see seeding temperatures until very late. Last year was a good example. It didn't go below 80 and stay there until the middle of October and by November 10 we were going well bleow freezing at night. You'd think growing grass here would be easy but we have very short actual Fall weather (although it seems like Fall given it was mid-90s all summer). So my question is - how warm can it be and still put seeds down without expecting them all to die? Prediction is for 90s until at least the 13th. If October 1 rolls around and it's still 85 degrees can I reasonably expect my seeds to live? (Night temps would be mid-60s to low-70s) Anyone here in the South seen success doing this?


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## BobRoss (Jul 3, 2019)

I believe you can still throw seed down in warmer temps. You just will have to water more and be persistent in keeping the seeds moist.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

It's tough. Shortly after fall weather gets going, the grass is ready to stop its rapid growth because temps drop. We do indeed have a fairly small window.
I am about 1.5 hours North of the Alabama border. For TTTF, I typically seed at some point beyond 9/20. I had a neighbor seed closer to Halloween, and it came in OK, but that is too late, IMO. 
This is the dilemma: Do it early and risk die-off from heat and disease. Do it late, and you have a stand of baby grass over the winter. :? 
For you, I would target from the last week in September to the first week in October.
But it is really temperature-based, in addition to playing lookout for potential downpours.
High temps of 85 are OK if you can keep things watered. Nighttime temps below 70 would be ideal. Those are my target temperatures this year.

You don't have too much company that far south. Movingshrub seeded perennial rye in Huntsville. I'll link his journal in a minute. GrassClippins is in Georgia. I'll see if I can link his journal as well. I think FlyMike is in Georgia, too. Their dates might provide better guidance, but do keep in mind that perennial rye will establish more quickly than TTTF.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Looks like 10/7 for Movingshrub's PRG https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=421&start=280
Late Oct for Grass Clippins https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2660&start=60
10/2 for FlyMike https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1956&start=40
Also check out this great work: GA fescue man https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7612

That's 3 Georgia and 1 Alabama for comparison.


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## Wilbursan (Jul 30, 2017)

I've already ordered my seed so I'll give it another go. I'm supposed to have them by 9/25 and was looking to put them down 9/29 so looks like I'll keep that plan (weather permitting). I've seeded as late as Halloween before and nothing ever came up. I have a sprinkler system so I'll just fork the money over and run 5 minutes per zone twice a day.

Thanks for the links. I'll check those out.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I think TTTF is very much a possibility where you are for most of the year. The struggle will come during the summer. 
You should water more for your overseed, as I don't think 5 minutes 2x day will get you through the heat. I recommend slightly increasing your run time as well as your frequency (maybe 3-4 times per day starting at 10am).


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## lostinclt (Dec 21, 2018)

I'm 8 days from seed down TTTF (SS1002 and custom TTF/KBG mix, 3k sqft) after 3 rounds of "soul stealer" preparation. Weather has been rather hot for the last 72 hours. Seed certainly slower to germinate in areas getting more sun throughout the day. Currently watering about 0.08 inches (5 minutes) 3 times a day, sometimes a fourth depending on what the soil looks/feels like. I'll plan to fill in bare areas at the end of September and see how it goes. First time doing a full renovation as I'm an instant gratification sod guy. Unfortunately, no one grows a decent fescue cultivar sod.


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## troksd (Jul 27, 2018)

@lostinclt U are in Charlotte right? I overseeded 2 weeks ago. Two Lbs Mazama and 1.5 Lbs Midnight on 2.5k sq ft. Germinated four days ago.


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## Wilbursan (Jul 30, 2017)

@troksd What's the temperature there the last couple of weeks?


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## Wilbursan (Jul 30, 2017)

@lostinclt "soul stealer"?


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## Wilbursan (Jul 30, 2017)

@social port Water is kinda pricey where I'm at. 3X a day at 5 minutes per zone will cost me about $45/week. But I'll keep an eye on it and if I have to I guess I'll do it. It's good to know what others are doing.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@Wilbursan, I hear you, and that sounds very reasonable to me. Watering demands are a little lower if you are overseeding vs total reno. You could consider adding some peat moss on top of your seed. It tends to stay moist once it is wet. Some people also use hydretain, but efficacy is a question mark there.

BTW, soul stealer is a name that I gave to a gnarly mix of herbicides for killing bermuda. It evolved over posts with Greendoc, Delmarva Keith, and Movingshrub when I was trying to get to a kill solution with the most potential.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Wilbursan said:


> @social port Water is kinda pricey where I'm at. 3X a day at 5 minutes per zone will cost me about $45/week. But I'll keep an eye on it and if I have to I guess I'll do it. It's good to know what others are doing.


That's nothing. It costs me about $300 per month to irrigate my lawn during summer :lol:

You really only have to maintain that watering schedule for the first 2 weeks, then you can cut back a little.


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## troksd (Jul 27, 2018)

High temps have run 80 - 92 degrees, the last two weeks. It has been somewhat cloudy with no rain. The next 10 days will be challenging with several days in the 90's.



Wilbursan said:


> @troksd What's the temperature there the last couple of weeks?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

troksd said:


> High temps have run 80 - 92 degrees, the last two weeks. It has been somewhat cloudy with no rain. The next 10 days will be challenging with several days in the 90's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, that sounds familiar. At this point I am convinced that summer will never end. Never. 93 and no rain ever. Forever.


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## lostinclt (Dec 21, 2018)

troksd said:


> @lostinclt U are in Charlotte right? I overseeded 2 weeks ago. Two Lbs Mazama and 1.5 Lbs Midnight on 2.5k sq ft. Germinated four days ago.


Yep, in Charlotte. I had germination 6 days after seed down in 80% of the yard. That stuff is 2" tall now at 12 days from seed down. Another 10-12% has germinated but less than an inch in height. Last 8% hasn't done squat and might be a bust.


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

I'm in the same boat. Cincinnati.

Here is next week.

What do you all think?


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

I'm on stay-cation all next week so I can keep up the watering. I don't have irrigation system so if I wait till the following week it may be cooler but I won't be able to water as dilligently to keep seeds moist. I have a ttf blend.

Any suggestions?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@Bkell101, there is always risk involved when you pull the trigger. Having said that, if I saw those temperature ranges, I would move forward. Better to get things up and running than to wait too long for perfect weather.


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## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

I'm in Rock Hill, just south of Charlotte. My original plan was to overseed this weekend but the temps never broke like I was expecting. Soil temps are still 80+. Looks like it will cool off some next week so the weekend of the 14th will be my new seed down date.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

quattljl said:


> I'm in Rock Hill, just south of Charlotte. My original plan was to overseed this weekend but the temps never broke like I was expecting. Soil temps are still 80+. Looks like it will cool off some next week so the weekend of the 14th will be my new seed down date.


I'm ready to start pushing growth, too, and I have been ready to go for over a week. But it is getting up to 97 again in the coming week, and no rain is on the way. I'm sidelined again for another quarter.


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## Wilbursan (Jul 30, 2017)

social port said:


> quattljl said:
> 
> 
> > I'm in Rock Hill, just south of Charlotte. My original plan was to overseed this weekend but the temps never broke like I was expecting. Soil temps are still 80+. Looks like it will cool off some next week so the weekend of the 14th will be my new seed down date.
> ...


Mid 90's and no rain here for at least another week. Arrgh.


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## GA_Fescue_Man (Jan 7, 2019)

@Wilbursan Good luck with everything coming up. I'm about 30 miles north of downtown Atlanta and I usually try to shoot for 09/21 to 10/01, but it all depends on the soil temperatures. It seems like the last couple of years I've seeded around October 1st or so. Below is a link to a great site about soil temperatures (at a 4 inch depth) and the association between certain biological events for cool season grasses. Try to find a way to track soil temperatures in your area and shoot for consistent temperatures(at a 4 inch depth) of around 70 degrees. As a rough estimate, in terms of air temperatures, that usually means when daytime highs are around 75 to 80 degrees and when nightime lows are around 60 to 65 degrees. Again, just rough estimates man. Good luck.

http://www.walterreeves.com/lawn-care/importance-of-soil-temps/


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

On that note, southern states are out of luck with GDD tracker, but I check in here when I want info on soil temp.


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## Wilbursan (Jul 30, 2017)

I just checked mine and it's from a low of 73 to a high of 82, depending on location.

Does anyone have a good, strong thermometer for checking temps? I just broke my meat thermometer.


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## lostinclt (Dec 21, 2018)

So, totally wrong on timing for my renovation despite what NC State recommends (August 15th-September 1st seed down). Had decent germination as noted above in this thread but the last week has been horrible. Was worried about heat and lack of seed germination in areas so watering 3 times a day for about 4 minutes. Some areas were getting more sun than others, so not enough water caused seed to dry out. Areas in the shade staying a little too moist and got destroyed by fungus in less than 48 hours. Doesn't help that 1" of rain dropped in 1.5 hours. Essentially have thin stand of maybe a single cultivar from SS1002 mix in 50% of seeded area.

Looked great Tuesday when I reel mowed with fiskars for first time; striped and everything. Amazing what a difference 5 days makes. Any thoughts on next steps? Was thinking of reseeding at 4-5 pound rate in a few weeks, maybe get lucky with cool weather long enough for seed to get strong before a freeze.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

lostinclt said:


> So, totally wrong on timing for my renovation despite what NC State recommends (August 15th-September 1st seed down). Had decent germination as noted above in this thread but the last week has been horrible. Was worried about heat and lack of seed germination in areas so watering 3 times a day for about 4 minutes. Some areas were getting more sun than others, so not enough water caused seed to dry out. Areas in the shade staying a little too moist and got destroyed by fungus in less than 48 hours. Doesn't help that 1" of rain dropped in 1.5 hours. Essentially have thin stand of maybe a single cultivar from SS1002 mix in 50% of seeded area.
> 
> Looked great Tuesday when I reel mowed with fiskars for first time; striped and everything. Amazing what a difference 5 days makes. Any thoughts on next steps? Was thinking of reseeding at 4-5 pound rate in a few weeks, maybe get lucky with cool weather long enough for seed to get strong before a freeze.


If it looked good after a first mow, then are you sure that you need to reseed?
If it is still really thin and it has been more than 15 days since seeding, I think that you could consider seeding once more. Per the forecast for the Charlotte area, I think you can reseed right away. 
I would be attentive to the possibility of overwatering the new grass that you've grown up to this point.
I would definitely seed at a lower rate, especially if you thought it looked good after a first mow. Tillering will thicken the stand up.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Pictures? What fungus cause the issue?


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

I am on the coast and I have not re seeded yet. I plan to by the weekend. It's been very hot and humid. I had four stumps ground last night and finished up with some last minute hurricane clean up. These n e winds should tame the temps and humidity. I really think for most of N.C. states recommendations on over seed and Reno is way to early. I have done the first week of sept and it didn't work out as great as mid to late September storm depending.


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## lostinclt (Dec 21, 2018)

g-man said:


> Pictures? What fungus cause the issue?


I'll post pics tomorrow. Brown patch. Put propi down quickly and cut the grass to hopefully prevent spread. Either way, I've lost a good chunk of seed with this reno and just hoping to salvage something in the next few weeks with more seed. Despite "soul stealer" I'm getting some clover issues in small areas and worry about weed pressure if I can't get some good germination and save what's already up.

Guess this is why I always do sod; patience of a gnat.


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## luderiffic (May 1, 2017)

Can somebody describe how you are overseeding? Are you covering with anything? Aerating?

Last year I aerated, overseeded, fertilized and added a thin layer of compost (Black Kow) over the yard and it turned out great. I do not want to apply the thin layer again because it was so much work and $$$.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

luderiffic said:


> Can somebody describe how you are overseeding? Are you covering with anything? Aerating?
> 
> Last year I aerated, overseeded, fertilized and added a thin layer of compost (Black Kow) over the yard and it turned out great. I do not want to apply the thin layer again because it was so much work and $$$.


I really like what I am seeing from the Black Kow compost. I've been testing it to see if it contains weed seeds, but for weeks now, I haven't seen anything come up.

Experiences and opinions vary on overseed methods. I think peat is really not necessary unless you are really thin, but I have also seen better germination in areas that have peat added. I don't think aeration is necessary for an overseed, but there are plenty of pros who think otherwise.
My best recommendation to you: Visit this excellent guide :thumbup:


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## lostinclt (Dec 21, 2018)

g-man said:


> Pictures? What fungus cause the issue?










Dropped some pillar as well to hopefully help when I reseed next week.


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## Ortho-Doc (Feb 3, 2019)

@quattljl I know you're in Rock Hill seeding fescue as am I. With more hot weather next week are you seeding now or waiting another week? Can't make up my mind with this crazy late heat wave. Where you getting your seed? I got 50 lbs of site ones 0/0 transition blend.


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## Bkell101 (Jun 25, 2018)

social port said:


> lostinclt said:
> 
> 
> > So, totally wrong on timing for my renovation despite what NC State recommends (August 15th-September 1st seed down). Had decent germination as noted above in this thread but the last week has been horrible. Was worried about heat and lack of seed germination in areas so watering 3 times a day for about 4 minutes. Some areas were getting more sun than others, so not enough water caused seed to dry out. Areas in the shade staying a little too moist and got destroyed by fungus in less than 48 hours. Doesn't help that 1" of rain dropped in 1.5 hours. Essentially have thin stand of maybe a single cultivar from SS1002 mix in 50% of seeded area.
> ...


For those of us struggling and planning to redo the overseed what would be your watering approach given some new grass yet trying to get germination out of the redo seeds?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@lostinclt , I'm not sure if you are on the fence or not, but if I were in your position, I would reseed most of the photographed area. Lite rate in some places; heavier in others.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Bkell101 said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> > lostinclt said:
> ...


I don't have a great answer there, partly because finding that balance can be tricky and partly because weather conditions vary so widely.
Existing grass helps keep things moist, so that is a help when overseeding.
I think 3-4 x day is a fine place to start. I would target somewhere between 7-15 minutes, depending on your sprinklers.
Currently, I have a neighbor that I am coaching through an overseed. It has been extremely hot and dry, but yesterday I had the first inkling that fall temps are on the way. I'm telling him that it is go-time. Forecasted temps highs and lows around 64 and 94. He has a moderately thick stand of TTTF, with some very thin areas, and I suspect damage from disease.

Once he overseeds, I'm going to have him run 10 minute cycles at 10:00, 1:00, and 4:00. I will observe and have him adjust as needed. And I almost certainly will ask him to adjust, likely fairly early on once I can see what is happening with the seed and soil.

Watering fescue that late in the afternoon makes me sick, but that is part of the game. I ran a similar schedule last year when I was establishing my bluegrass, and my TTTF got hit with quite a bit of water in the process. I ran that schedule in late August (August is a major time for disease here), and my TTTF made it through OK.

Also, I just looked through my journal. I had to reseed TTTF in areas where I had already seeded that year. It was in the 90s and very humid in October. Under those circumstances, I opted for 20 or so minutes 2x per day. However, my drainage was very good at the time, so I didn't have baby grass sitting in 'pools' of water.

Transition to longer, less frequent waterings when you can. Two weeks would be the ideal target.

Hope this helps with the navigation some.


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

For what it's worth I am finishing top dressing tonight. Mowing tomorrow, tenacity, rgs, humic 12, starter then seed. My yard is a mess! The hurricane really put a dent in things, I had to have some stumps ground. I got all the wood chips out I could get and top dressed them and leveled a few other spots. It has been hot here, finally cooling down. Next week looks warmer but the evening temps look good. I am keeping my fingers crossed.


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## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

Ortho-Doc said:


> @quattljl I know you're in Rock Hill seeding fescue as am I. With more hot weather next week are you seeding now or waiting another week? Can't make up my mind with this crazy late heat wave. Where you getting your seed? I got 50 lbs of site ones 0/0 transition blend.


I thought I replied to this but it doesn't seem to show up...

I've already postponed seeding twice hoping for the weather to break. Honestly, I'm tired of waiting and will probably do it this weekend. The 10 day forecast shows a couple days with highs in the low 90s but overnight lows should be in the low to mid 60s which should help soil temps. I'll have to be really on my watering game until it does cool off. I don't want to put it off too much longer because I'll be fighting the heaviest leaf fall of the season while I've got grass seedlings trying to germinate.

As far a seed goes, I bought 50lbs of United Seeds Super Turf I. It's a blend with equal parts Valkyrie LS, Titanium 2LS, 4th Millenium, and Spyder LS. I'm really happy with the varieties in this years blend (even more so than last year's). What varieties come in the Site One blend?


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## Ortho-Doc (Feb 3, 2019)

@quattljl here's what's in the blend. Hope it's reasonable. I've got tenacity and poa constrictor to put down at seeding or within a week of it. With these warmer temps do y'all think I should delay the tenacity and ethofusemate application? I want to time those applications with max Poa germination.


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## lostinclt (Dec 21, 2018)

social port said:


> @lostinclt , I'm not sure if you are on the fence or not, but if I were in your position, I would reseed most of the photographed area. Lite rate in some places; heavier in others.


Yea, that's the plan. Whatever cultivar survived is tillering quite well; everything else is shot. I dropped black cow and filled in lightly. Need some 0-0-50 but can't find any locally. Might spray some 0-0-29 liquid if I can get it in time. Plan to do seed in the next few days.

What's worrisome is my ground has cracks all over, like it completely dried out despite irrigation. Weird since I have clay. Need to hit hard with water, especially as temps are projected in the 90s this week. Also worried about igniting more fungus. Gonna be a tough few weeks. Hopefully don't lose another $75-$100 in seed.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

@lostinclt , you could always use a fungicide to help prevent fungus. This is a fairly common practice as I understand it, but I don't use fungicides, so I can't advise on the particulars. Something to look into, perhaps.

Curious that there are cracks in your top layer of soil.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Ouch. The year I seeded my HGT mix it was actually supposed to be a KBG/fescue mix, but fungus wiped out all the fescue in a matter of days and left the bluegrass untouched. I've had that happen again with another renovation in the back yard. I always use fungicide at seed down now, and again 3 weeks in.


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

Seeding done today, gonna apply a fungicide in a week or so!


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## Bo Jangles (Dec 29, 2018)

Anyone from the Nashville area putting down seed now? Looks like it's going to be around 100 degrees beginning of next week and won't get into the 80s until October. You guys think overseeding in early October is too late?


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## Avalawn T (Sep 11, 2018)

My seed has been down a week now in Nashville. TTTF/KBG. Doing great with good germination. I've been on the water constantly and have some shade to help. Depending on your irrigation I would go no later than next weekend. The temps are going to drop off a cliff in my opinion.


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## Avalawn T (Sep 11, 2018)

Looks like fair weather to me coming up. It has to cool down soon. We are way above our 5 and 10 yr soil temps.


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

For fescue in NC, I like to wait until nighttime temps drop below 65 at night and look like they won't break that barrier. That typically means you are 90% out of the woods with respect to disease. Looking at the extended forecast for Huntsville (which I assume is close to the same climate as you), I would throw it down the first week of October. Doing that would mean your seed should germinate just as the temperatures starts to drop down to the sweet spot for fescue.

Edit: I also like to throw down some Milo about 2 weeks after I throw the seed down when it is 1.5-2 inches long. That should kick it into gear so you are established even if temps fall off quicker than expected


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## Ortho-Doc (Feb 3, 2019)

Just put down my tttf yesterday, added peat moss, and rolled it all in. Now hitting it with water 2-3 times per day. Here's my question: with highs in the 90s and lows in the mid-60s for the next 7-10 days, should I delay my tenacity and ethofumesate apps to prevent Poa Annua or should I go ahead and get those down now? My concern is not having the prevention at its max effectiveness when Poa germinates once soil temps drop below 70. I know I can reapply ethofusemate but worried about missing optimal timing. Maybe @Movingshrub or @g-man can offer some advise on this?


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Bo Jangles said:


> Anyone from the Nashville area putting down seed now? Looks like it's going to be around 100 degrees beginning of next week and won't get into the 80s until October. You guys think overseeding in early October is too late?


You could wait out the heat and it might be OK, but I agree with Avalawn T: It's go-time for Nashvegas.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Ortho-Doc said:


> Just put down my tttf yesterday, added peat moss, and rolled it all in. Now hitting it with water 2-3 times per day. Here's my question: with highs in the 90s and lows in the mid-60s for the next 7-10 days, should I delay my tenacity and ethofumesate apps to prevent Poa Annua or should I go ahead and get those down now? My concern is not having the prevention at its max effectiveness when Poa germinates once soil temps drop below 70. I know I can reapply ethofusemate but worried about missing optimal timing. Maybe @Movingshrub or @g-man can offer some advise on this?


Since you just seeded, I would put them out now before they germinate. Otherwise, it's 4 weeks post germ for meso. It is soil applied so it should be watered in and no adjuvants used. This should have much less effect on your old grass. Also, while the temps may be high, the days are much shorter and the high heat should have less of an effect on ET while also reducing the speed/activity of herbicides. I'm sure you'll be fine. I would put it out. Both products are most effect before poa germ, not post.


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## Ortho-Doc (Feb 3, 2019)

@Suburban Jungle Life I really appreciate you taking the time to offer some advise. I will put down both products this evening and water them in, and then re-apply per label intervals after germination.



Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Ortho-Doc said:
> 
> 
> > Just put down my tttf yesterday, added peat moss, and rolled it all in. Now hitting it with water 2-3 times per day. Here's my question: with highs in the 90s and lows in the mid-60s for the next 7-10 days, should I delay my tenacity and ethofumesate apps to prevent Poa Annua or should I go ahead and get those down now? My concern is not having the prevention at its max effectiveness when Poa germinates once soil temps drop below 70. I know I can reapply ethofusemate but worried about missing optimal timing. Maybe @Movingshrub or @g-man can offer some advise on this?
> ...


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> Since you just seeded, I would put them out now before they germinate. Otherwise, it's 4 weeks post germ for meso. It is soil applied so it should be watered in and no adjuvants used.


Concur. Tenacity now, and then I'd think get prodiamine down as soon as you can.


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

How long for the prodiamine after germination?


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

Bigdrumnc said:


> How long for the prodiamine after germination?


60 days


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