# GCI Turf Tall Fescue Seed



## scz71864

Pete's got his variety of TTTF out for sale now. $114 for 50lbs. I just purchased a bag and I'm really looking forward to putting it out in a few weeks. I'll post some pictures of my results on a week to week basis after I plant.


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## g-man

Could you post a picture of what the cultivars are and the weed %?


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## Suburban Jungle Life

My bag didn't have an analysis label...


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## g-man

Is that legal? to sell without an analysis label? I think it was federal law.


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## probasestealer

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> My bag didn't have an analysis label...


I don't think you can NOT provide a label.. I'd call Pete..


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## Budstl

Here is what is on his site.
https://www.gciturfacademy.com/product/gci-premium-turf-type-fescue-blend-50-lb/

Rendition, escalade, and falcon 3 are the varieties.


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## Guest

I'm just guessing he doesn't want you to know what he chose for his blend but not sure why it would matter. I follow his YouTube channel and he seems pretty stand up.
Maybe a call to find out would work.


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## scz71864

Rendition Falcon and Escalade are the varieties. 90% germination rate. I'll see if I can get him to post the label.


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## erickdaniels

How much is shipping?


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## social port

I've heard him mention that he has tested numerous cultivars over the years to see which perform best for him in NC. That mix represents the best performers for him.


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## Miggity

Shipping is free, 0.00% Weed seed, 0.00% Other crop


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## probasestealer

social port said:


> I've heard him mention that he has tested numerous cultivars over the years to see which perform best for him in NC. That mix represents the best performers for him.


That's what he can get cheapish and make a profit. Nothing wrong with those cultivars but bullseye, Cochise, ls200, etc I think are better cultivars. But you will pay more with shipping from Hogan, Pawnee, etc.
But honestly I'm not sure it makes too much of a difference.
I'm not far from him in Winston, bluegrass does well for me, I would expect him to start to blend with bluegrass, but he loves him some fescue. /Rant


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## social port

probasestealer said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard him mention that he has tested numerous cultivars over the years to see which perform best for him in NC. That mix represents the best performers for him.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what he can get cheapish and make a profit. Nothing wrong with those cultivars but bullseye, Cochise, ls200, etc I think are better cultivars. But you will pay more with shipping from Hogan, Pawnee, etc.
> But honestly I'm not sure it makes too much of a difference.
> I'm not far from him in Winston, bluegrass does well for me, I would expect him to start to blend with bluegrass, but he loves him some fescue. /Rant
Click to expand...

As far as I know, he doesn't mention the issue of cost in his selection of seed. His approach has always been: I don't care how much work is involved; I don't care about cost; I want the best possible turf. 
That would lead me to think that he was open to considering all players - and we are looking at the final class.
But I think you make a good point here. I know that I would prefer to buy the cultivars you mention over alternatives (heck, I grow ls1200 and Cochise iv).
Also agree with you re bluegrass. I think it may be called bluegrass transition zone bias. I've had expert seed distributors tell me that KBG won't make it down here; yet, we know things to be otherwise.


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## Green

firefighter11 said:


> I'm just guessing he doesn't want you to know what he chose for his blend but not sure why it would matter. I follow his YouTube channel and he seems pretty stand up.
> Maybe a call to find out would work.


Email. He said people from online are calling his business line and tying it up lately, and he can't run his business properly due to it. He now has to hide his number on his shirt in recent videos.

Falcon 3 is supposed to be very well regarded among pros. Never heard of the others, but I'm sure they must be too. It's probably a blend that works really well in his part of NC.

Is that what his lawn is in terms of cultivars, too?


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## social port

@Green yes, his home lawn is comprised of the above-mentioned cultivars.


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## Green

social port said:


> @Green yes, his home lawn is comprised of the above-mentioned cultivars.


Just saw his newest video where he describes the seed. Sounds like his lawn is almost entirely these cultivars, and he says he picked them based on color, disease tolerance, and drought tolerance...and of course price. He said the blade thickness varies between the three. One is a bit wider, one super fine, and the other in between the two.


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## Dave




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## erickdaniels

I'm on the fence... leaning towards trying this out. Price is good, I trust Pete's advice.


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## Green

erickdaniels said:


> I'm on the fence... leaning towards trying this out. Price is good, I trust Pete's advice.


In Virginia? Go for it. You're not that far from NC. A little less humidity in Summer and a little more cold in Winter, but not a hugely different climate. Wonder how much shipping costs, though.


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## probasestealer

erickdaniels said:


> I'm on the fence... leaning towards trying this out. Price is good, I trust Pete's advice.


Look at the NTEP, if you feel comfortable/like the cultivars and price buy it. I wouldn't just trust someone who sales numerous products for a profit (it's his business).
There is so much objective data out there GCI sometimes looks more anecdotal.


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## Guest

probasestealer said:


> erickdaniels said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on the fence... leaning towards trying this out. Price is good, I trust Pete's advice.
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the NTEP, if you feel comfortable/like the cultivars and price buy it. I wouldn't just trust someone who sales numerous products for a profit (it's his business).
> There is so much objective data out there GCI sometimes looks more anecdotal.
Click to expand...

I'm not used to reading the NtEp reports but I'm anxiously looking at tttf blends for the upcoming reseeding. Do the ones you mentioned above perform best in our area or just overall?


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## Budstl

firefighter11 said:


> probasestealer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> erickdaniels said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on the fence... leaning towards trying this out. Price is good, I trust Pete's advice.
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the NTEP, if you feel comfortable/like the cultivars and price buy it. I wouldn't just trust someone who sales numerous products for a profit (it's his business).
> There is so much objective data out there GCI sometimes looks more anecdotal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not used to reading the NtEp reports but I'm anxiously looking at tttf blends for the upcoming reseeding. Do the ones you mentioned above perform best in our area or just overall?
Click to expand...

I'd look at traverse 2, 4th millennium, and ls1200. Traverse 2 is currently the highest rated tttf for the transition zone.


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## erickdaniels

Ok, i think I've researched enough.

I used 3 main sources: 
1. 2017-2018 Virginia Turfgrass Variety Recommendations; 
2. NTEP 2017 data from 2012 testing; 
3. NTEP 2007-2011 data from 2006 testing.

From source #2, pg 87, it looks like highest scoring cultivars are: 4th Millennium (75.0), Amity (81.3), Met-1 (75.0), Raptor 3 (75.0), and Regenerate (75.0). Note: Traverse 2 scored (62.5). It is important to note that this is composite scoring across all regions/tests (basically how often a particular cultivar scores in the top 25% of each testing category), not just Transition Zone(8). SeedSuperstore's SS1000 tall fescue blend contains 3 of these (4th Millennium, Regenerate, and Traverse 2) for $200 for 50 lbs with free shipping. Digging deeper into source #2, on pgs 25-27, the best performaning cultivars in VA1 are: F711 (7.8), PPG-TF-169 (7.8), MET-1 (7.6), and 4th Millennium (7.5). I used 7.5 as my floor. Regenerate scored 6.7, Traverse 2 scored 7.2. Looks like SS1000 would do very well in my area.

I am very concerned about disease resistance though. Brown Patch is bad in my area. Back to source #2, pgs 76-77, best performers against Brown Patch are: Thor (7.7), Maestro (7.3), and Screamer LS (7.3). 4th Millennium scored 6.0, Regenerate scored 6.0, Traverse 2 scored 4.3. Not so good. SeedSuperstore sells SS1001 Tall Fescue Brown Patch Blend which contains the following cultivars: Talladega, 3rd Millennium, and Mustang 4. This seems like older cultivars as I had to go to source #3 to find data. Pgs 17-19 yield overall turf quality scores in VA1 of: Talladega (5.9), 3rd Millennium (5.8), and Mustang 4 (6.0). Not bad considering the highest scorer was LS1200 (6.2). Pg 113 scores Brown Patch Reistance in VA1. Talladega (7.0), Mustang 4 (7.0), 3rd Millennium (5.7). Top scorer was Raptor 2 (7.7), however that is an outlier as next highest score was 7.0. Finally, pgs 174-175 yield overall composite scores of: Talladega (40.7), 3rd Millennium (59.3), and Mustang 4 (48.1). Not the absolute best (Faith (81.5), Bullseye (77.8), and LS 1200 (88.9)), but looks like SS1001 would do well in my area.

Now on to Pete's GCI blend. He uses Rendition, Escalade, and Falcon 3. From source #3, pgs 17-19 yield turf quality scores in VA1 of: Rendition (5.8), Escalade (5.6), and Falcon 3 not listed (it's probably an even older cultivar and we would have to review NTEPs 2001 testing). These scores are lower than either blend from SeedSuperstore. Pgs 113 for Brown Patch yield: Rendition (4.7), Escalade (6.0), and Falcon 3 not listed. Again, scores are lower than SeedSuperstores blend. Finally, pgs 174-175, overall scores: Rendition (7.4), Escalade (11.1), and Falcon 3 not listed.

In summary, the cultivars from SeedSuperstore are superior to GCI cultivars. They also cost $200 for 50 lbs vs. $115 for 50 lbs.

Personally, I think the price premium is worth it for the increased turf quality and disease resistance. I will probably get a quote from Hogans matching the cultivar blends from SeedSuperstore and go with whoever is cheapest.

Hopefully this helps anyone else doing seed research... oh man I guess I'm a lawn nerd!


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## Guest

Budstl said:


> firefighter11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> probasestealer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the NTEP, if you feel comfortable/like the cultivars and price buy it. I wouldn't just trust someone who sales numerous products for a profit (it's his business).
> There is so much objective data out there GCI sometimes looks more anecdotal.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not used to reading the NtEp reports but I'm anxiously looking at tttf blends for the upcoming reseeding. Do the ones you mentioned above perform best in our area or just overall?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'd look at traverse 2, 4th millennium, and ls1200. Traverse 2 is currently the highest rated tttf for the transition zone.
Click to expand...

I will do. I'm going to go by Site one and Ewing's and see what they offer then call Hogan's. I saw seedsuperstore and to me those prices are astronomical for 50lb bags compared to GCI turfs blend. Not sure the cost is worth the difference but i will surely look at those you mentioned.


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## CPA Nerd

I ordered the GCI seed yesterday. I put it in my cart in the morning but didn't pull the trigger right away. Later I got an e-mail with a $5 off code, so it ended up being $109.99 total out the door. Free shipping. I've heard good things about it, Pete seems like a stand up guy, and it's 0% weeds, all at a very good price, so I figured I would give it a shot for my overseed.


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## XiolaOne

I'm planning on using seed superstores SS1000 blend myself this fall but 75 lbs is pricey. But the varieties are top notch

https://www.seedsuperstore.com/catalog/p-100003/ss1000-tall-fescue-blend


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## Guest

Just adding this. Looking at the list here quite a few to choose from for the transition zone. https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/2016-top-performing-tall-fescue-and-kentucky-bluegrass-cultivars


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## erickdaniels

@CPA Nerd Did you order through GCIturfacadamy website, or another source?


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## probasestealer

@firefighter11 you might call Southern Seeds (in Wendell or Bunn) to see what is in their blends. I recently relocated from Raleigh, there is actually are large seed testing plot in Rolesville, NC.

http://www.southernseedsinc.com/store/c2/Seeds.html


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## CPA Nerd

erickdaniels said:


> @CPA Nerd Did you order through GCIturfacadamy website, or another source?


I clicked "Buy Now" on this link and it took me to Lawn & Pest Control Supply. I am assuming that is the distributor that Pete uses.

https://www.gciturfacademy.com/product/gci-premium-turf-type-fescue-blend-50-lb/


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## scz71864

My bag came today. I'm ready to put it out! Like others have said, Pete is a trustworthy guy. Iv got several large patches of Bermuda I have recently killed and this I'll be able to single out those areas and see how well the seed does and what it looks like.


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## Guest

probasestealer said:


> @firefighter11 you might call Southern Seeds (in Wendell or Bunn) to see what is in their blends. I recently relocated from Raleigh, there is actually are large seed testing plot in Rolesville, NC.
> 
> http://www.southernseedsinc.com/store/c2/Seeds.html


Thanks for that, southern seed carries triple threat and triple threat plus. Im unsure what the cultivars are though. I did call and ask for a price real quick while at work. 72$ for a 50lb bag.


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## MichiganGreen

I'm not seeing any of his cultivars in the latest NTEP reports. Am I looking in the wrong place? Can anybody find an NTEP with these three in the reporting?

Rendition, Falcon 3 and Escalade


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## social port

@MichiganGreen I think @erickdaniels ' post above (post 3, this page) will give you the kind of info you are looking for.

Admittedly, I'm a little surprised that his cultivars aren't NTEP top performers. I recall him saying that the has tried numerous cultivars over the course of his career.
It makes me curious to know if he tried some of the higher-performing alternatives.

What is more interesting is the possibility that he did try 'the best of the best' on NTEP ratings but found that the cultivars in his GCI blend simply outperformed the NTEP high-performers in his climate (and in his lawn?).


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## MichiganGreen

social port said:


> @MichiganGreen I think @erickdaniels ' post above (post 3, this page) will give you the kind of info you are looking for.
> 
> Admittedly, I'm a little surprised that his cultivars aren't NTEP top performers. I recall him saying that the has tried numerous cultivars over the course of his career.
> It makes me curious to know if he tried some of the higher-performing alternatives.
> 
> What is more interesting is the possibility that he did try 'the best of the best' on NTEP ratings but found that the cultivars in his GCI blend simply outperformed the NTEP high-performers in his climate (and in his lawn?).


Agreed I did a TON of research before buying this bag....Unfortunately my outcome will live on with an asterisk because of the fall weed treatment that was applied...yet at the same time I guess the fact I'm still seeing some growth is telling. Maybe it is a combination of the 3 that really works well. I'll know more next summer once I give it more time.


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## GrassTastesBad

social port said:


> @MichiganGreen I think @erickdaniels ' post above (post 3, this page) will give you the kind of info you are looking for.
> 
> Admittedly, I'm a little surprised that his cultivars aren't NTEP top performers. I recall him saying that the has tried numerous cultivars over the course of his career.
> It makes me curious to know if he tried some of the higher-performing alternatives.
> 
> What is more interesting is the possibility that he did try 'the best of the best' on NTEP ratings but found that the cultivars in his GCI blend simply outperformed the NTEP high-performers in his climate (and in his lawn?).


Pete did his lawn renovation 7 years ago, so his seed (Rendition, Escalade, Falcon III) were still relatively new cultivars with decent NTEP scores for back then. If I remember correctly, he's only ever overseeded with Falcon since then and hasn't tried any of the latest NTEP cultivars.

His lawn does really well and looks amazing, so I guess he's sticking to what's already proven.


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## Green

MichiganGreen said:


> I'm not seeing any of his cultivars in the latest NTEP reports. Am I looking in the wrong place? Can anybody find an NTEP with these three in the reporting?
> 
> Rendition, Falcon 3 and Escalade


The researchers who do the tests can only do so much, and the companies that pay to enter can only afford to enter so many types, so not every type gets tested every year. It's like a game to find a cultivar listed somewhere in the NTEP. You often have to look at multiple years of data. And now that Falcon V is out, it's no surprise.


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## MichiganGreen

Makes sense, appreciate it.


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## LawnJockey

I just dropped 200# of GCI Tttf 15 days ago in an overseed on 1 acre of lawn that was severely neglected. I have to say i am EXTREMELY impressed with the results in the short amount of time. I have no inground irrigation, i installed 8 pgp rotors on spikes with a 4 zone timer. The weather has been 1 week of 90's with high humidity and 1 week of 70-80 with about 1.5 inches of rain since seed down.


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## MichiganGreen

Ditto. I put down 50 and the first 4 days were over 90 degrees, a couple got to 95...then somebody put 24D blanket treatment 5 days in. Its sprouting pretty well!


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## social port

GrassTastesBad said:


> His lawn does really well and looks amazing, so I guess he's sticking to what's already proven.


Completely agree that his lawn is amazing (I especially love it when he stripes with the Ventrac :mrgreen: )


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## Ecubed

I'd love to see OP results. I thought about getting Pete's blend but a local store here in Missouri (Grasspad) has numerous varieties of good seed. So I went with them to avoid waiting on shipping. Price point identical to GCI. I don't have irrigation so I went with a blend rated for heat stress called "Heat Wave"


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## Avalawn T

1st time renovation using GCI seed. Seed down August 22nd. So far super happy with the results. Hope this helps some folks on the fence about Pete's seed. First time homeowner and completely new to lawn care but I followed his plan and did a ton of research. New here love the forum. Im in Nashville too if that helps with where his seed would do well.


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## MichiganGreen

Outstanding! Great color.


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## LawnSolo

Lush baby Lush!


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## MassHole

Any updates? Hows the dark color?


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## Avalawn T

Super happy with the color and seed overall. I had a war with fungus and have finally recovered somewhat. It did thin out also so I cut a few big limbs down on the trees and reseeded. I feel pretty good about the whole reno being a newbie to lawn care. I've learned a lot and am definitely glad I found this community.


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## Jconnelly6b

@Avalawn T excellent work! That looks beautiful.


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## Avalawn T

Thank you Jconnelly6b, it was hard work but fun to do and I am definitely armed with much more information for next year.


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## trick

Over seeded with the below, priced at $50 for 25lb bag. Seems to germinating well.


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## Avalawn T

A few more updated photos from this Sunday. Still working on getting my beds cleaned up.


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