# Fusebox7 - KBG Lawn Log



## fusebox7

Had a lot of landscaping done in the front and back yard so I decided to kill the rest of the yard too - and get it done in one fell swoop  Summer reno #omgnoooo!

Decided to do it in late May, early June due to erosion concerns but also because my last reno (new establishment) happened in June and turned out great (other than the triv issues and horrible northern mix). I have full in-ground irrigation, work from home and live in Mid-Michigan so it never really gets too terribly crazy hot here.

Here's what I started with on the new landscaping parts of the yard:





Here's where I am with those parts of the yard after 60 days (today):





The biggest challenge by far has been the 6-7 foot slopes (over 30 ft) that caused some seed washout and I have some interesting soil situations (hydrophobic) that I've been working on with soil conditioner but overall I think I've put myself in good position to put the pedal down this fall. Looking forward to hitting it hard with N in another month.


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## LIgrass

Welcome to TLF! Glad you found us.

Good progress so far. Once you start hitting that with urea you will be loving it. I'm interested in how the Mazama does. I believe you were growing that by itself to compare with the others?


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## jimmy

Where did you source the Mazama? My reno is planned for this fall and I'm doing Bewitched/Award, and I considered adding Mazama, but couldn't find it in small enough amounts. (I'm doing 3500 sq ft)


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## Pete1313

Welcome fusebox, good to see you here! Nice progress, and love the fire pit in back and raised bed in the front! :thumbsup:


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## pennstater2005

Looks like a great start! Nice to see you here &#128513;


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## fusebox7

Glad to be here  Thanks for the warm welcome!

LIgrass: yes it's got a bit of rust ATM because I haven't fertilized it (trying to see how it did without it) -- so far it is definitely much wider bladed than Award and even Bewitched. 


Jimmy: I got Mazama (Compact America) at Long Island Cauliflower Association.

Pete1313: thanks x 2! We are enjoying the landscaping thus far. Just need the green stuff now 

Pennstater2005: Thank you - good to see ya'll too


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## fusebox7

.25 lb N / K on the whole reno a couple days ago. Color is already improving. Gaps are slowly closing so I'm confident that by Thanksgiving I will be very happy. Here are some updates on the front.


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## Pete1313

Its going to be awesome!


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## Redtenchu

Looks great, now that is a slope!


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## GrassDaddy

Makes my slope look like a small bump haha good job


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## fusebox7

The slope was definitely a challenge - the soil was nice and rolled and smooth which is why I decided to give it a go in May/June instead of waiting. I'm glad that KBG seemingly grows downwards for awhile first before starting more top growth. It definitely held everything in place where it germinated. I had a bit of washboarding due to less than 100% coverage but I already fixed those areas with more soil. It seems to be shifting gears now and I'm seeing rhizomes developing so this fall will definitely be interesting.

I'll pop back next month and give an update picture-wise but I will continue to log my activity on this thread.

Thanks all.


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## fusebox7

.25 lb N / 1000 sq ft on the whole reno today. Big rains coming our way later today, will water in ahead of time as well as open up the ground to take the supposed deluge. Forecast is high:mid 70s and low: 50s for the next week. Hoping it stays that way as we move closer to fall. Reno is taking on a wonderful, distinct blue hue which makes me happy.


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## fusebox7

The barer spots that I am left with (slope washout issues, irrigation coverage) -- I haven't been able to decide on if I should reseed those areas or what the spreading/fill-in expectations should be. I've never had KBG so I don't have any idea what's to be expected this fall.

I'm also looking to put down my 6-month prodiamine pre-emergent for the remainder of the year.

Any suggestions / alternatives? I've tried plugging but these areas have hard soil that I've been working on with conditioner so I haven't really been able to break ground.


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## social port

fusebox7 said:


> Any suggestions / alternatives? I've tried plugging but these areas have hard soil that I've been working on with conditioner so I haven't really been able to break ground.


Have you considered using a light coating of Scott's patch master or a seed accelerator on the sloped and washout areas? That's what I will be using on my slopes.


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## fusebox7

I did pretty heavily, actually. Bear in mind my slopes are 20% grade.


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## LIgrass

fusebox7 said:


> The barer spots that I am left with (slope washout issues, irrigation coverage) -- I haven't been able to decide on if I should reseed those areas or what the spreading/fill-in expectations should be. I've never had KBG so I don't have any idea what's to be expected this fall.
> 
> I'm also looking to put down my 6-month prodiamine pre-emergent for the remainder of the year.
> 
> Any suggestions / alternatives? I've tried plugging but these areas have hard soil that I've been working on with conditioner so I haven't really been able to break ground.


The plugger can't break through those areas? Maybe try dish detergent to soften it up? I've seen GrassDaddy do that on his slopes.


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## fusebox7

LIgrass said:


> The plugger can't break through those areas? Maybe try dish detergent to soften it up? I've seen GrassDaddy do that on his slopes.


They will go down maybe 1-2 inches and then it's like I need an auger to get through. Not worth the effort but I could probably make it work if I wanted to do it all day.


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## fusebox7

I am going to get my prodiamine down tomorrow (Poa annua is popping up everywhere) so I'll just keep that barrier up and monitor the KBG through this fall. It's established enough in order to prevent any further erosion issues but I am just hoping these don't become problem areas that I can't overcome.


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## g-man

I would also hit the poa annua with a 2oz rate of tenacity.


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## pennstater2005

Looking good!


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## fusebox7

Cooler temps and the lawn is responding. I'm already seeing most gaps disappearing which is making me more and more excited for this fall season.


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## g-man

^ and we are just getting started.


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## fusebox7

Yep - it's been a lot of work but I had to do what I had to do


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## ericgautier

Good stuff!


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## fusebox7

Sprayed front 2000 sqft with:
- prodiamine WDG 65 (Barricade Generic): 0.3oz/1gal/1000sqft
- Tenacity: 0.3tsp/1gal/1000sqft
- Ferrous Sulfate Heptahydrate: 2oz/1gal/1000sqft


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## J_nick

Isn't that a really high dose of Tenacity? I normally see people spraying at 4oz/acre. If my math is correct then .3oz/1000 = 13oz/acre


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## fusebox7

^ thanks for finding my mistake. I corrected it from oz. to teaspoons  It's a tiny tiny amount.


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## J_nick

Ok good deal. I was hoping you didn't nuke the reno


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## fusebox7

Anecdote: The 2-week forecast looks hotter and drier than the rest of the summer has already been. Another reason why where I'm located, I don't believe the fall vs. spring/summer reno has any benefits given that recommended seed-down is mid-August here (this weekend). In my opinion and experience - if you have irrigation, it doesn't matter. Plus, now that I have a mature stand, I can focus my efforts on removing and preventing undesirables before next spring.


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## Roosterchest

fusebox7 said:


> Another reason why where I'm located, I don't believe the fall vs. spring/summer reno has any benefits given that recommended seed-down is mid-August here (this weekend). In my opinion and experience - if you have irrigation, it doesn't matter.


Given the irrigation component, I agree. Different pressures during the summer with heat and lack of natural water (rain) but if you have irrigation, seed is happy.


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## fusebox7

One week after Tenacity application on the front reno areas: a lot of bleaching on the nutsedge, crabgrass, old PRG clumps and Poa annua. Planning on hitting again next Wednesday the 23rd with 2oz/A rate since there's too much to hand pull without disturbing the desirable turf.

I'm about a week overdue for my .25lb N/K application but being a bit cautious as hot temperatures are back and sticking around for the next week at least. Can tell that the grass is super hungry though. As soon as the temps drop I'm probably going to give it .5lb N/K.


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## vnephologist

@Fusebox7 I saw a reference to you using Mazama and that you were pot growing seperately, but was wondering if you seeded anything else with it. I have a Barenbrug HGT blend in the transition zone and am planning on overseeding Mazama for deeper color. It seems to be the next best NTEP available seed behind the HGT cultivars. Interestingly, I was also researching the most recent Carbondale shade results for a small patch of dense shade under one of my trees and to my surprise Mazama seemed to accel there too! Anyway, since you're a few months ahead on your seeding, I'm closely following your results.


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## fusebox7

Thanks - yeah while doing my research Mazama had pretty much a statistical tie with Award (also in my blend) and very similar results to Bewitched in color/greenup (my grading scale for aesthetic uniformity) and are all compact cultivars. I have quite a bit of shade in the back 2500 sq ft which is why I have Mazama and Bewitched. I will keep you posted as we get into fall and I can start hitting it hard with N.


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## fusebox7

Day 84 (front-west full back yard reno) / Day 60 (kill-reno) updates:

In the front (west side of driveway [bare soil reno]) the holes and gaps are almost invisible now (even after 2+ weeks w/ no nitrogen!). Only gripe is some areas that seem to STILL be in sprout and pout... bad soil? Temps drop from 88 and high humidity today down into the low 70s and lows in the 40s (yay fall!).

Tomorrow I will drop 0.5lb N/k (1lb urea/k) on the entire yard.

Yesterday I forgot to mention I spray chems:

Back/sides: 
Tenacity 0.3tsp/1gal/k (round 1 - highlight undesirables)
Prodiamine 0.3oz/1gal/k
Ferrous sulfate 4oz/1gal/k

Front:
Tenacity 0.3tsp/1gal/k (round 2)
Ferrous sulfate 4oz/1gal/k


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## Pete1313

That pic looks really good! :thumbsup:


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## fusebox7

Thanks Pete! We're getting a great soaking rain right now so I won't be able to mow as planned, unfortunately. The uneven areas that you can see in the picture are due to some stubborn areas that seem to still be pouting (at almost day 90?)... Make me wonder what is going on below ground there. I might get a shovel out and lift some sod to see what's under there. Other than that - for the areas that ARE growing, no complaints. When edging my bed I took up some grass and there were some pretty extensive rhizomes developing which is exciting to see. Our forecast is looking PERFECT for some hardcore aggressive nitrogen strikes


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## vnephologist

fusebox7 said:


> ...The uneven areas that you can see in the picture are due to some stubborn areas that seem to still be pouting (at almost day 90?)... Make me wonder what is going on below ground there. I might get a shovel out and lift some sod to see what's under there...


I know it isn't as warm in your neck of the woods, but given the timing of your reno, is it possible what you're seeing is actually damping off in those areas? Not sure your perspective on fungicides.


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## fusebox7

vnephologist said:


> is it possible what you're seeing is actually damping off in those areas? Not sure your perspective on fungicides.


You have my ears but I'm not sure --- you could be right. I feel like if it was damping off these areas would've been toast by now. They do seem to be in the more "populated" areas. However, my other comment about the soil is because I recall these areas being difficult during dry/hot periods with my previous turf stand.


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## vnephologist

fusebox7 said:


> You have my ears but I'm not sure --- you could be right. I feel like if it was damping off these areas would've been toast by now. They do seem to be in the more "populated" areas. However, my other comment about the soil is because I recall these areas being difficult during dry/hot periods with my previous turf stand.


Yeah, you're probably right if you had issues there in the past and I agree that it'd probably be more apparent. For me, it's been pretty easy to spot in the past with the seedlings looking wilty even though soil is moist. You're probably more established at this point.


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## fusebox7

Probably should try to thin those areas out through mechanical means - it may help their longevity and vigor --- but only after I have a look-see at the soil profile.


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## fusebox7

Here's where we are in the back as of yesterday. Picture taken through a window so I could get it all in (sorry about the quality). It's starting to stripe when I mow even though I don't really want it to.

Yesterday I mowed everything at 2.0 inch HOC. Today I hit everything with 0.5 lb N / k. I'd like to bring the HOC down a notch to combat fungus that's showing up due to the high humidity we've had the past week.


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## fusebox7

X-posted on ATY:

Poa trivialis explosion in the back (medium shade). SURPRISE!

Is it best to way for the Certainty "regimen" in spring (Where it's been shown to be more effective) or start hitting it now in fall?


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## g-man

Aty post was not approved when I looked for it.

I have a different idea, but it depends on the size/area. Nuke it with round up and seed it. You are still in the seed down window.

You had poa t in this area in the past or sourced with your seed?


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## fusebox7

I sit on top of a triv hotspot (was completely wooded when we built). I've nuked twice before (spring) and it's back. I need something where I can keep on top of it and eventually get rid of it. Hopefully the good will beat the bad now that I have 100% elite KBG cultivars. I'd hate to do the same thing again (reno) if all it will do is take me back to the start.


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## fusebox7

Fun times...


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## g-man

^ quack?


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## fusebox7

Poa trivialis. These ones are pre-stolons. I'm hoping to hit them hard this fall to prevent the spaghetti from forming.


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## fusebox7

Saturday, Aug 26:

Sprayed 2oz/A Tenacity
4oz Serenade/k
1oz/k Bifen IT


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## jimmy

g-man said:


> ^ quack?


FYI, quackgrass is easy to ID if you remember it has the clasping auricles:


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## g-man

^ Yep I know. When I zoomed in I thought I saw one.


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## fusebox7

So it turns out (so far) that the _majority_ of what I thought was Poa trivialis is actually Poa annua. I'm going to limit watering and increase HOC as much as I can.

Also, oddly satisfying picture of 13 gallon bucket full of Poa annua I pulled this morning. Phew!


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## fusebox7

BTW - I think the picture that I posted a few posts up is Poa annua and not triv. Clumpy and has wrinkles on the blades. I haven't found any documentation that says that Triv exhibits the wrinkled blades attribute that Poa annua does. This is good news. (but I still have triv in other areas).


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## g-man

I'm glad it is poa annua vs triv. Annua is manageable with tenacity next year and the PreM you already applied.


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## fusebox7

0.5 N/k since it's about to rain. Right on schedule to have something I'll be very proud of by Thanksgiving. Been weening off the irrigation pretty aggressively but may have overdid it a bit as I'm seeing many areas with the grey tint (drought symptoms). Trying to let the Rachio do its thing - I have the root depth set to 6" to encourage deeper watering. Need to get the custom nozzles set correctly by doing a catch-cup test then the Rachio will know exactly what it is putting down.


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## fusebox7

Saturday's mow dropped down slightly to 2.5" deck setting. Better but not quite... planned for a urea shot and another mow on Sept 5.

Well today I took it down to deck setting of 1.75" so HOC is a bit higher than that but I am REALLY liking the way it looks right here. The .75" deck drop was a tad more than I expected so I made two passes to clean up a bit of the mulch left behind in the thick areas. If everything fills in nicely this fall/next spring this is definitely the uniform look I was looking for but cutting lower. And better yet, no scalping with the rotary!


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## fusebox7

Shady location pots update:

Bewitched (left) vs. Mazama (right). One week ago they got a dose of urea and a haircut down to the top of the pot. HOLY COW does Mazama grow fast! It also has powdery mildew. It also is noticeably darker and wider bladed than Bewitched at this point. I wish I could capture the difference with a camera!


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## Pete1313

fusebox7 said:


> ...I took it down to deck setting of 1.75" so HOC is a bit higher than that but I am REALLY liking the way it looks right here.


Glad you like the lower HOC! :thumbsup:



fusebox7 said:


> Shady location pots update:
> 
> Bewitched (left) vs. Mazama (right). One week ago they got a dose of urea and a haircut down to the top of the pot. HOLY COW does Mazama grow fast! It also has powdery mildew. It also is noticeably darker and wider bladed than Bewitched at this point. I wish I could capture the difference with a camera!


 Bewitched is the slowest. Slow growth habit is great when you are cutting short, bit it really tests your patience during establishment.


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## fusebox7

Talk about "cool season" grass. 44 degrees and loving it! It's come alive!


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## g-man

^ the hill holes have filled up too.


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## Pete1313

Nice! :thumbsup:


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## fusebox7

g-man said:


> ^ the hill wholes have filled up too.


Yeah can't believe it's closing gaps so fast. I'm super excited to watch it through September and October!


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## ken-n-nancy

Pete1313 said:


> Bewitched is the slowest. Slow growth habit is great when you are cutting short, bit it really tests your patience during establishment.


And when trying to outgrow disease.


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## fusebox7

Applied FAS at 4oz FS and 3.4oz AS / k. Did only the front and sides and a test area in back. We'll see if it works...


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## fusebox7

Getting better and better despite the drought and high 80s temps. Supposed to hit 90 this week. Really odd weather that caused the tree leaves to change color early due to drought stress. Looks like fall, feels like mid-summer. Had to mow double-wide fashion to mulch the leaves better.


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## fusebox7

Whole milk applied at 8oz/k with continued hot weather this week. Spreading has already kicked up a notch.


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## Pete1313

Looks good! How did you like the FAS?


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## fusebox7

Besides the iron smell...?  To be honest I'm not sure what went wrong. I either noticed a couple areas that turned black and in the rest of the areas I didn't notice any darkening. I think maybe next time I need use warm water and mix it better before application in order to get even distribution. I used my 4 gallon backpack sprayer with the high pressure nozzle but next time I think I need to use the low pressure nozzle as I found myself having to walk too fast. I also raised my HOC back above 2" because my rotary was giving an unclean cut with a new and freshly-sharpened blade and I started to get some white/frayed ends and a little browning.

Are there any must-do tips you suggest with FAS application or is it an experiment until it's not?


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## Pete1313

fusebox7 said:


> Are there any must-do tips you suggest with FAS application or is it an experiment until it's not?


I have never had any issues with FAS, but I know some people report inconsistent results with it. I sprayed it on my last reno at 84 days after seed down with great results. At that time it was just FAS with a surfactant. The year after I mostly sprayed FAS mixed with Primo and a surfactant. I would always use warm water and mix the FS in last. The spray solution should turn rust/orange color. If not, something went wrong.


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## fusebox7

Pete1313 said:


> At that time it was just FAS with a surfactant. The year after I mostly sprayed FAS mixed with Primo and a surfactant.


Maybe the issue was that I did NOT include a surfactant which is why only the more heavily sprayed areas turned black but the the spray did not adhere properly in the areas sprayed with "normal" application rates?


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## fusebox7

Lots of poa annua and trivialis popping up again. The cool/warm cycles are killing me right now. Going to need another application of prodiamine (seemingly did nothing to prevent annua germination) and another onslaught of Tenacity 2oz/A intervals.


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## g-man

^ I mowed tonight and noticed some poa annua seed heads. Weird weather. I'm going to mix tenacity and prodamine in the tank for a blanket app on Saturday.


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## fusebox7

^ Same here. Probably spraying tomorrow. We have perfect weather for the Poa species. It never gets too hot and it cycles warm/cool a lot. I think everything is confused right now. I was pulling some triv by hand yesterday and it just gives me the heebie jeebies as it untangles itself from the surrounding grass. Disgusting crap.


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## ken-n-nancy

I've been seeing _poa annua_ seed heads, too. I like it when the _poa annua_ shows its distinctive seed heads at this time of year, as it makes it easy to see where it is and hand-pull it before it continues to spread this fall.

I pulled about 6-10 plants out of my side lawn (about 3300sqft) last night before mowing.


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## fusebox7

ken-n-nancy said:


> I pulled about 6-10 plants out of my side lawn (about 3300sqft) last night before mowing.


I long for the day that I pull 6-10 plants out of 3300 sqft. I have so much that it's a futile effort and I'm banking on being more productive with pre-m moving forward.


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## ken-n-nancy

The pre-emergent won't stop them all. My having a handful or so of plants at each mowing (every 4 days) is despite my having made a 3-month rate application of prodiamine in early August.

However, if I'm getting 90% effectiveness from the pre-emergent, it means I could have been dealing with 60-100 _poa annua_ plants every 4 days instead...


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## fusebox7

double mowed and mulched at around 2.25-2.5 HOC. Holes are almost gone.


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## Pete1313

Nice!


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## fusebox7

Only issue I am trying to overcome is poorly cut blades. Thinking it's low torque and speed of the mower. Blades are brand new AND sharpened. Tested Revs but at 3150 which is at the top of Honda's recommended range.


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## ken-n-nancy

fusebox7 said:


>


Wow, you're starting to see more leaf-fall there than we are here. That's probably atypical -- has it been a dryer than usual summer there?

PS: The grass is looking great!


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## g-man

Try walking slower. Sometimes the grass is too thick and it slows the motor.

It's been a very dry and hot summer in Indy, likely in Michigan too.


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## fusebox7

ken-n-nancy said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you're starting to see more leaf-fall there than we are here. That's probably atypical -- has it been a dryer than usual summer there?
> 
> PS: The grass is looking great!
Click to expand...

Thanks! Oh my yes. Other than a 15-minute onslaught of hail last Thursday we haven't seen any rain this year. All of the trees are drought stressed and lawns are burnt to a crisp. We've actually just had the 5th straight record-breaking day of heat too (90+ one week away from average frost date). Wow...


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## fusebox7

g-man said:


> Try walking slower. Sometimes the grass is too thick and it slows the motor.
> 
> It's been a very dry and hot summer in Indy, likely in Michigan too.


I use the self-propelled pretty heavily (walking very slowly, but still taxes the motor) when I'm mowing my front slope. I'll have to check other areas of the yard to see if it's also happening there. I really want a reel mower but not sure of any/any affordable options that have "on-demand" self-propelled control like the rotaries do.

And yes, extremely dry and hot here. More recently very humid so lots of mosquito activity.


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## fusebox7

Mowed again today. Glad I did because I took off at least 1/2" already. I think that's the sweet spot. Mower blades seemed to do a better job at taking small clippings off and left cleaner cut. Unfortunate part is I had stopped fertilizing because of the heat, watering at intervals no less than every 7-10 days and it is growing that quickly. I can probably mow every 2-3 days and probably should with all the black walnuts and leaves falling on the lawn.


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## J_nick

A TruCut reel mower would be what you would want for the "on demand" self propelled like a rotary. Plus they have a wider HOC range than most reels.


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## fusebox7

^ thanks. I haven't done much research and it's definitely not something I /need/ to do (when is it ever?).


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## fusebox7

0.5 lb N/k last night throughout. Milk 8oz/k this morning in the front/sides.


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## J_nick

fusebox7 said:


> ^ thanks. I haven't done much research and it's definitely not something I /need/ to do (when is it ever?).


Not a problem. I don't know what part of Michigan you are in but I searched for some reels in Central Michigan on Craigslist. I didn't see any trucuts but there were a couple sweet 5 gang fairway mowers at decent prices. Way to big for 99% of the lawns on here but I still thought it was cool.


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## fusebox7

J_nick said:


> Not a problem. I don't know what part of Michigan you are in but I searched for some reels in Central Michigan on Craigslist. I didn't see any trucuts but there were a couple sweet 5 gang fairway mowers at decent prices. Way to big for 99% of the lawns on here but I still thought it was cool.


Yeah I'm in mid-Michigan and I've looked on Craigslist to no avail (other than a 90s JD greens mower). I've been eyeing the Tru-cut P20S-H. Would that be a solid choice for a 7500k yard with slopes and tight turns. Seems like 20" is the right size for both avoiding scalping (with front roller) and maneuverability. I like the thumb-levers - that's exactly what I was hoping for (similar to my Honda HRR).


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## J_nick

That would be a solid choice. I have a H-20 homeowner version and I reely (pun intended) like it. They do a good job on hills and with the clutch it's much easier to control over a greensmower.


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## fusebox7

J_nick said:


> That would be a solid choice. I have a H-20 homeowner version and I reely (pun intended) like it. They do a good job on hills and with the clutch it's much easier to control over a greensmower.


Thanks for your help & input. I really appreciate it. I'll probably get it... :thumbup:


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## fusebox7

Just ordered the same version as you and used the savings from going with the home owner model to purchase the front roller. Thanks for your help. Excited to kick my mowing regimen up a notch!


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## J_nick

Awesome, the front roller is definitely well worth the money


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## fusebox7

Reel mowed the front at 1"...!!! Swapped out the front swivel casters for roller and wow what a difference! So excited to get those crowns growing lower. Looks amazing. I can't believe how horizontal these elite cultivars grow.


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## Pete1313

fusebox7 said:


> Reel mowed the front at 1"...!!! Swapped out the front swivel casters for roller and wow what a difference! So excited to get those crowns growing lower. Looks amazing. I can't believe how horizontal these elite cultivars grow.


Oh yeah!! :yahoo:

We need pics please..


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## g-man

I agree, pictures please.


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## fusebox7

Sorry we got a deluge of rain after I mowed yesterday. It doesn't look quite uniform at the moment - I'm sure a lot of that is due to the rain we've been getting and also bringing down the HOC the reel is bound to miss a lot of the longer blades. Some yellow (expected) in the thicker areas as the grass is shedding and will also need to adjust to the lower HOC. I snapped a few quick pics today. Will try to get some better ones when the sun isn't beating on the yard. ~1-1.25" HOC in the front.

I also mowed the back today at around 1.75-2" (unsure of actual HOC) since it's pretty shady and I'm unsure of the performance at anything lower... any input on that?

Here's a couple pictures of the front... once it dries out I'll mow again and see if that grass can get clipped and more uniform looking!


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## fusebox7

Here's a quick snap of the back. Not much to look at but if you have seen earlier pictures of it the cooler wetter weather has kicked the KBG into spread mode.


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## g-man

I'm JEALOUS. I think I know what my Christmas present will be.


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## J_nick

fusebox7 said:


> I also mowed the back today at around 1.75-2" (*unsure of actual HOC*) since it's pretty shady and I'm unsure of the performance at anything lower... any input on that?


http://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42


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## fusebox7

J_nick said:


> http://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42


Thanks - that's an interesting read. DIY threads are great. Also, many thanks for recommending the 20" Tru-Cut. It's amazingly nimble. Even moreso than my Honda rotary. On my steep hills it was a champion - even with damp conditions. Excited for this adventure  But BOY did it absolutely suckkk to put together. I'd rather put together IKEA furniture for a week straight. Haha.


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> I'm JEALOUS. I think I know what my Christmas present will be.


Yeah... this was a gift to myself too  Now I want to do nothing but mow... these low-growing cultivars look so great cut low. I really can't wait until next year when everything has had a chance to mature a bit more.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Looking great man! I love these low cut cool season grasses.


----------



## Pete1313

fusebox7 said:


> Sorry we got a deluge of rain after I mowed yesterday. It doesn't look quite uniform at the moment - I'm sure a lot of that is due to the rain we've been getting and also bringing down the HOC the reel is bound to miss a lot of the longer blades. Some yellow (expected) in the thicker areas as the grass is shedding and will also need to adjust to the lower HOC. I snapped a few quick pics today. Will try to get some better ones when the sun isn't beating on the yard. ~1-1.25" HOC in the front.
> 
> I also mowed the back today at around 1.75-2" (unsure of actual HOC) since it's pretty shady and I'm unsure of the performance at anything lower... any input on that?
> 
> Here's a couple pictures of the front... once it dries out I'll mow again and see if that grass can get clipped and more uniform looking!


Excited to see another cool season member with a reel! :thumbsup: the straglers will go away once the turf density increases. In the mean time, mowing when it's dry helps, double cutting, or lowering the HOC.

Your shade in the back could be a challenge. 1.75" should be fine.


----------



## fusebox7

Double cut down and back today. Much much better results. Hopefully as the sward density increases and fills in the little holes that are left I won't have to do that all the time. Took about 2 hours for 7500sqft.

Looks so nice now. I wish the pictures could capture it.


----------



## g-man

The angle of that image makes the hill looks more challenging than what I remember. The lawn looks nice.

PS there is a green flag in front of the house that doesnt look good with the blue house. Maybe change the flag to a maize one. :-D


----------



## fusebox7

Oh yeah it is exceptionally challenging. The Tru-Cut owns the slope thankfully and is extremely easy to control. It's about a 15% grade.

Ohhh really? I think the flag looks perfect but maybe I should paint an M on the hill and plant the flag in the middle of it


----------



## ericgautier

Congrats on the reel! :thumbup:


----------



## HomerGuy

Looks great!

I'm not sure how I missed this thread, especially since we are practically neighbors.


----------



## fusebox7

Thanks all. Lonnnnnng medium-pace rain overnight and still today. Probably going to be several inches by the time it's done. Hope my fertilizer app from yesterday didn't completely wash away :/


----------



## LIgrass

fusebox7 said:


> Double cut down and back today. Much much better results. Hopefully as the sward density increases and fills in the little holes that are left I won't have to do that all the time. Took about 2 hours for 7500sqft.
> 
> Looks so nice now. I wish the pictures could capture it.


Impressive. Congrats on the new toy!


----------



## fusebox7

Thanks! It's taking a bit of getting used to and I'll need to let some of the small holes fill in before I can expect a smooth ride. I'm also wondering if I should cut at the 2" range for the time being in order to maximize potential rhizome spread. So many HOC decisions that all have pros/cons! :roll:


----------



## fusebox7

Probably just going to stick with the 1-1.25" HOC as it seems to be adjusting to the low cut pretty quickly. Color is starting to improve. Going to give it another mow this afternoon if the sun ever comes out and dries it up.


----------



## Pete1313

Looking good! I would keep it at the 1-1.25" HOC as well. If you go higher and then bring it back down later, it will take time for it to adjust to the lower HOC again. The downside to keeping it low is it makes the thinner areas alot more noticeable, but they will fill in.


----------



## wardconnor

fusebox7 said:


> Reel mowed the front at 1"...!!! Swapped out the front swivel casters for roller and wow what a difference! So excited to get those crowns growing lower. Looks amazing. I can't believe how horizontal these elite cultivars grow.


What the crap... How did I miss this? Awesome


----------



## fusebox7

wardconnor said:


> What the crap... How did I miss this? Awesome


Thanks! Flying under the radar  I may reach out to you next year with some leveling questions. Going to be interesting to see what the 3.25" of rain yesterday and today does... everything is VERY green... probably won't be able to mow for awhile.


----------



## fusebox7

Headed for another 3-4" of rain this week and a drastic reduction in temps. Highs in the 40s/50s and lows in the 30s. I think my fertilization regimen is complete for the year. I don't know if I want to apply winterizer...


----------



## fusebox7

I must say... I am TRULY impressed by the nearly ZERO vertical growth I'm seeing on this elite KBG blend. All three cultivars are seemingly growing at the same pace (vertically at least). My no-mix would've been flopping over at this point because it would've grown so tall with all of this rain and fertilizer. This is going to be fun to watch in its first full year next year.

In other news, I think the reel is going to be benched for awhile and the rotary will be out doing the deed because of all of the leaf coverages on the lawn. Until the trees are done dropping, the rotary will be utilized 100%.

I'm actually starting to wonder if the grass will stop growing before all of the leaves drop. There are still quite a few trees that are still GREEN.


----------



## fusebox7

First frost! A chilly 29º this morning. That escalated quickly!


----------



## gregonfire

I'm shivering just looking at those pics! Still in the mid 60's here in Southern NJ.

Lawn looks great, your house is very nice as well!


----------



## fusebox7

Thank you! It's very very wet from 3-4 inches of rain the past few days but today I am pulling the rotary out to mulch the leaves. I don't want them to mat the grass down and prevent it from getting some air flow.

And yes, I am shivering too. It's almost noon and still only 37 degrees. Though, it's sunny, so I'll take that!


----------



## HomerGuy

Yea that weather sure turned quick! I can't complain though, as I was so fortunate to have warm weather so late into fall for my new lown. I was hoping to get some fertilizer on it before the cold set in.


----------



## fusebox7

The lawn is officially asleep for the winter. Mowers are cleaned up and winterized.

Final pics of the year for the Award, Bewitched and Mazama shady location pot test. Bewitched wins mightily. These pots were all the same density in the summer. Now, Award is mostly asleep, Bewitched is thickening like mad and Mazama is just hanging around (left to right). Bewitched is the lightest and has the thinnest blades (due to density?) of the 3 this first year. Per many others' observations, that should change next year and the following year. We will see as Award and Mazama both are descendants of Midnight...


----------



## g-man

What a difference a couple of miles make. I'm guessing I still have 1.5 more weeks before winterizer.

Do you have pictures of the final reel cut in the front?


----------



## fusebox7

Not really. I stopped reel mowing once the leaves starting coming down quickly. Here's what it looks like now:


----------



## fusebox7

I did quite a bit of reading about reel speed vs. ground speed and clip rate. I think given where I started (higher HOC), the reel speed was too fast for the grass blade length, hence the stragglers. I am also sure it has to do with the density. When I was running the tank empty before the snow came, I did some experimenting on a small portion of my front lawn.

As a side note, I had an issue where the throttle lever wasn't sticking where I put it (needed quite a bit of tightening on the nuts). It required me to always run at 100% throttle which I found out was WAY too high. Anyways, I ran the reel at about 50% throttle and cut around 7/8" and it was nearly a perfect cut. The only downside that I see to the Tru-Cut machine is that the reel speed and ground speed are variable so it's apparent that I need to get a better feel for the "settings" given the HOC I am working with.

Can't wait until spring!



Pete1313 said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry we got a deluge of rain after I mowed yesterday. It doesn't look quite uniform at the moment - I'm sure a lot of that is due to the rain we've been getting and also bringing down the HOC the reel is bound to miss a lot of the longer blades. Some yellow (expected) in the thicker areas as the grass is shedding and will also need to adjust to the lower HOC. I snapped a few quick pics today. Will try to get some better ones when the sun isn't beating on the yard. ~1-1.25" HOC in the front.
> 
> I also mowed the back today at around 1.75-2" (unsure of actual HOC) since it's pretty shady and I'm unsure of the performance at anything lower... any input on that?
> 
> Here's a couple pictures of the front... once it dries out I'll mow again and see if that grass can get clipped and more uniform looking!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excited to see another cool season member with a reel! :thumbsup: the straglers will go away once the turf density increases. In the mean time, mowing when it's dry helps, double cutting, or lowering the HOC.
> 
> Your shade in the back could be a challenge. 1.75" should be fine.
Click to expand...


----------



## Pete1313

Good to hear that you are able to get the machine adjusted and helped reduce the missed cuts. I'm sure after a few cuts in the spring you will have that thing dialed in and it will look amazing. I can't wait for spring either! Not only for my own lawn, but for you and other members starting to reel mow cool-season grass!


----------



## wardconnor

Pete1313 said:


> Good to hear that you are able to get the machine adjusted and helped reduce the missed cuts. I'm sure after a few cuts in the spring you will have that thing dialed in and it will look amazing. I can't wait for spring either! Not only for my own lawn, but for you and other members starting to reel mow cool-season grass!


What he said


----------



## fusebox7

Wondering if I should be worried about these temperatures with my new reno... how hardy is a 1st year KBG lawn with long periods of single and below zero temps? It was -12 actual temperature the last two mornings... There's 6+ inches of snow cover to help insulate a bit but unsure of how much that helps with extended low temps like this.


----------



## g-man

It should be ok. Dry windy days with no snow cover seems to cause me the most damage. It dries the leaf blades too much (like freezer burn). But honestly, there is not much we could do about it. Avoid walking on it (make a path for UPS/FedEx). Kbg does recover in the spring.

I've been trying to work in the garage and this cold is too much to keep my motivation.


----------



## Pete1313

Your good. Like g-man said, dry and windy days with no snow cover could cause problems. Also really cold weather followed by a mid/late winter warm up where grass could break dormancy or start to take up water and then another cold snap could cause issues. This is especially true with perennial ryegrass and poa annua that break dormancy really quick.

I watched a webinar on turfnet.com that went into great detail on the plant physiology going into winter. Awesome info, and thoroughly explains what causes winter kill. It is geared towards golf turf, but there is talk explaining the differences between KBG and per. rye and why KBG does better in cold climates.



You need to create a free guest account to view the free archived webinars, but if you have time I think it would be worth your while. In short, you have one of the best species in KBG to tolerate and survive cold weather. Even if it is on a lawn that was seeded in the past year.


----------



## fusebox7

Thanks guys - appreciate the input! Yeah waking up to -12 actual temp this morning was misery at its best. Luckily the wind has been at a minimum!

Pete, thanks for the webinar - I will definitely check it out! Glad I asked about it. I've been curious about the KBG vs. PRG winter survival differences.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

With snow cover, you should be in good shape, even in extended sub-zero temperatures, as even a few inches of snow cover will keep the cold, *dry* air directly off the grass blades so that the grass will not dessicate (dry out) as it would with direct air contact.

As mentioned above, no snow cover combined with cold, windy conditions are the worst for dessication.

On the flip side, extended snow cover, particularly when the snow cover persists late in the spring (due to a lot of snow depth) can result in snow mold. However, there's no point in worrying about that yet!

If the sub-zero temperatures this week were on ground with zero snow cover, there'd be cause for concern (although there isn't much you could do about it, unless you had some really big tarps...)


----------



## fusebox7

I dormant seeded with the rest of my Mazama in some of the areas that had no chance of filling in this year. I will be avoiding Pre-M in those areas - they're pretty obviously bare. Hopefully the spring dampness will allow germination and maturity to make up for the apparent irrigation coverage issues (another story).

Very very curious to see how the softened soil will allow spreading. I had a few areas from the landscaping work that were a bit compacted and nothing grew there...or it grew there but couldn't spread. Major spring fever right now. New golf clubs and hitting the outdoor range in 20 degree weather is desperation


----------



## kds

fusebox7 said:


> I got Mazama (Compact America) at Long Island Cauliflower Association.


Did you get a bag of just Mazama or did you get it in a mix from LICA?


----------



## fusebox7

kds said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got Mazama (Compact America) at Long Island Cauliflower Association.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you get a bag of just Mazama or did you get it in a mix from LICA?
Click to expand...

Standalone. They sold me 10 lbs. Very nice people there.


----------



## fusebox7

Around 16" on the ground. Now this is the part of winter we love!


----------



## Pete1313

We finally received some decent snow in northern IL as well. Looks like spring won't be early this year!


----------



## g-man

We had our share of precipitation too. Freezing rain. The driveway was sheet of smooth ice yesterday.


----------



## fusebox7

I'm curious to see the damage come spring. There's been a lot of plowing, snow blowing and salting this winter. I know first hand that I've ripped out a lot of grass along the edges of the driveway and sidewalk. I'm basically impatiently excited to see what this KBG will do in the spring... from everything I've been reading year 2 is a huge leap from year 1 (fingers crossed).


----------



## fusebox7

Did an overseed (dormant seed) mid-winter into some bare areas. No sign of the seed anymore - lots of soil movement with the freeze/thaw cycles. If I do any crabgrass pre-M this spring it will be Tenacity only. Prodiamine apps will start in early July (or as soon as the overseeded KBG matures). Going to water a LOT less this year (enough to prevent dormancy) in order to attempt to further combat existing Poa annua infestations. Fertilizer regimen will be mostly organic (Milorganite). Anything I water in typically runs off due to sloped yard.


----------



## Green

fusebox7 said:


> Going to water a LOT less this year (enough to prevent dormancy) in order to attempt to further combat existing Poa annua infestations.


Not sure if I took the above quote out of context, but I'm not sure I follow your line of thinking in it. I don't see how keeping the KBG out of dormancy is directly related to the amount of Poa annua that might germinate.

Sure, if the KBG goes dormant, it'll probably thin out, some of it will die, and then Poa annua might take its place. And of course, the watering required to keep any dormancy from happening might enhance Poa annua germination. Not sure if that's what you meant.


----------



## g-man

Sometimes POA annua could turn into POA eternal. In well irritated lawns in the north, the poa annua might not die from the summer heat (also not hot enough). Fusebox is experimenting with cutting back water to kill some of the POA annua.


----------



## fusebox7

Yeah. @g-man and I have discussed "less irrigation" as a potential area of improvement to combat Poa annua. The areas that are really bad in my yard are at the bottom of the slopes where the runoff collects. It's basically ALWAYS moist there. A lot of lawns do extremely well here without supplemental irrigation. I've only been here less than 3 years so I'm still in quite a bit of experimental mode when it comes to learning my lawn. Now that I have 100% KBG instead of a no-mix it's even more of a learning curve. I do realize that the newer elite cultivars like irrigation and fertilization but they're also bred to do MORE with LESS.

And yes... here the Poa annua never dies... our golf courses are absolutely riddled with it. I remember fertilizing the one really bad area in my yard last year and seeing Poa annua the size of a broccoli head. :twisted:


----------



## fusebox7

Fertilized my maples, dogwood, pear, serviceberry and redbud. Winter weather advisory (wet snow and ice) starting at 2am tomorrow. Absolutely sick of this endless "winter". Seems to be dragging on forever. At least I'll get some grilling in tonight before "the weather" starts again. Looks like snow every day this week. Today was nice. Spring tease at a balmy 41! :lol:

Got excited when I saw the color of this grass where someone's dog peed. It's SO ready.


----------



## Pete1313

fusebox7 said:


> Got excited when I saw the color of this grass where someone's dog peed. It's SO ready.


Most of my yard has greened up some, but it is still thinner and hasn't started growing. I was in the yard this evening and saw a couple patches like this where the dog "fertilized" next to the fence that might be warmer from the afternoon sun that bounces off of it. Those couple patches look so dark and lush.

I'm so sick of this endless winter also. It is so ready... but we are so ready as well!


----------



## HomerGuy

fusebox7 said:


> Fertilized my maples, dogwood, pear, serviceberry and redbud. Winter weather advisory (wet snow and ice) starting at 2am tomorrow. Absolutely sick of this endless "winter". Seems to be dragging on forever. At least I'll get some grilling in tonight before "the weather" starts again. Looks like snow every day this week. Today was nice. Spring tease at a balmy 41! :lol:


Ugh, yes this weather is killing me! We had a very late summer, so I guess we are paying for it now. Looking at the 10 day forecast is depressing.....still highs in the 40s almost into the middle of April!

What did you use to fertilize your maples? We planted several maples last fall and I was told to wait a year before fertilizing them, but was curious what you used?


----------



## fusebox7

HomerGuy said:


> What did you use to fertilize your maples? We planted several maples last fall and I was told to wait a year before fertilizing them, but was curious what you used?


I have used the Jobes tree/shubs spikes for years with great success. I am usually pretty conservative with the early spring feeding with all of the lawn fertilization. Milorganite definitely gets spread in any/all beds as well


----------



## fusebox7

The witch-hazel has woken up and the dog days of winter are over! A lot of greenup with areas of the lawn. Mulch beds especially - ornamental grasses already starting to show new growth (trimmed those back today since I like to keep the seed talks over winter).

Sidenote: anyone ever dealt with the relentless and wild Virginia creeper? I can't seem to beat it back into the forest. Every time I try, it multiplies. I don't mind (and actually enjoy) the way it looks climbing the towering black walnut trees but when it spreads on the ground it's like Nagini on the loose :twisted:


----------



## fusebox7

Well this is why the Poa annua never goes away despite relentless hours of spraying and hand picking...

Stoloniferous suckers!


----------



## ericgautier

fusebox7 said:


> Well this is why the Poa annua never goes away despite relentless hours of spraying and hand picking...
> 
> Stoloniferous suckers!


Gotcha. So, spray a 6" (maybe bigger) glyphosate circle around it for a full kill?


----------



## fusebox7

ericgautier said:


> Gotcha. So, spray a 6" (maybe bigger) glyphosate circle around it for a full kill?


It's one thing to kill the existing (which I feel like I'm slowly making progress on) but there's two things going on:

1) the "hot bed" I have is around 2500 sq ft. If I miss one plant, it turns into several pretty quickly (as you see in the picture)

2) the seed bed is seemingly endless. This is where my pre-M shockingly hasn't seemed to help. I've used prodiamine for a couple years now with negligible results. Couple theories on why and a couple go-forward plans of attack: it's the sandiest part of my yard (barrier doesn't hold up long) and it's also one of the wetter areas of my yard (barrier breaks down faster).

So the sand + wet + poa annua seed farm = mega germination. That coupled with stoloniferous poa annua and I'm in the battle for the ages. At least it's not Poa trivialis... (oh wait I have that too)


----------



## Budstl

Have you tried seeding with prg? It germinates quick to compete against poa.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

fusebox7 said:


> ericgautier said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gotcha. So, spray a 6" (maybe bigger) glyphosate circle around it for a full kill?
> 
> 
> 
> It's one thing to kill the existing (which I feel like I'm slowly making progress on) but there's two things going on:
> 
> 1) the "hot bed" I have is around 2500 sq ft. If I miss one plant, it turns into several pretty quickly (as you see in the picture)
> 
> 2) the seed bed is seemingly endless. This is where my pre-M shockingly hasn't seemed to help. I've used prodiamine for a couple years now with negligible results. Couple theories on why and a couple go-forward plans of attack: it's the sandiest part of my yard (barrier doesn't hold up long) and it's also one of the wetter areas of my yard (barrier breaks down faster).
> 
> So the sand + wet + poa annua seed farm = mega germination. That coupled with stoloniferous poa annua and I'm in the battle for the ages. At least it's not Poa trivialis... (oh wait I have that too)
Click to expand...

Considering the large amount of poa that I had this winter, I'm giving serious consideration to something other than Prodiamine. My guy at Site One said that I could go with a granular form of Specticle, for around $100, which would treat my whole yard, and is considerably less expensive than the liquid form. The results that I've seen with that chemistry are pretty encouraging.


----------



## Green

Fuse:

Am I missing something? Isn't Specticle only for use on warm-season lawns?

Edit: Whoops...I see that was posted by Colonel in reference to his lawn.

So...how about Tenacity?


----------



## g-man

fusebox7 said:


> Well this is why the Poa annua never goes away despite relentless hours of spraying and hand picking...
> 
> Stoloniferous suckers!


I don't see poa annua in this image.


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> I don't see poa annua in this image.


???


----------



## fusebox7

Budstl said:


> Have you tried seeding with prg? It germinates quick to compete against poa.


Well this is what it looked like when it was PRG and poa annua... even worse because of the contrast. I planted 100% KBG because of my climate and to never have to break a pre-m barrier/overseed again.


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well this is why the Poa annua never goes away despite relentless hours of spraying and hand picking...
> 
> Stoloniferous suckers!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see poa annua in this image.
Click to expand...

@g-man please elaborate.


----------



## g-man

I just don't see the identifying features of POA annua. What are you seeing that points to POA annua?


----------



## Turfguy93

It looks to me like it's perennial poa annua, poa annua var reptans, theirs literally thousands of different bio types of poa annua.


----------



## fusebox7

It's definitely poa annua. The way it grows in clump form, the short wavy leaves, the light green color, the extremely short root system... The way I understand it, there are many many types of poa annua. Most of the ones I have e don't ever seem to go to seed either. I have some that are dark green and very closely resemble poa pratensis. This one that I posted a pic of is particularly nasty because of its spreading behavior.


----------



## g-man

Short wavy leaves is a good indicator of POA annua. In the image I could not see it. Based on your descriptions it fits the POA annua. A picture is just not as good as your eyes. So, what's the plan?


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> So, what's the plan?


No worries on the picture. Was just interested on what you thought it was... if anything else.

I need to tighten up my pre-m schedule since it won't/hasn't held up well in the sandy/wet "quadrant" of my yard. I'm not sure if monthly applications is too often but I'll do it if it works. I did dormant seed so I'm not so much concerned with starting the pre-m until June-ish (will be keeping an eye out for germination). I am interested to see if there's a preemergent that fits my needs better than prodiamine if I'll be applying monthly, for example.


----------



## fusebox7

Cleanup mow! Ran the Tru-Cut at 4th lowest setting (pretty specific eh?) and only scalped twice. Win. There's one spot in particular that I'm purposely not plugging anymore so I can see spreading progress. It's in the last picture next to the driveway. A bit of time before things really wake up but wanted to take the mower for a test run this year and run it on "low" throttle. MUCH BETTER and quieter too! Going to be a fun year 

Also pondering aeration in order to drop fert into the soil rather than have it sit on my slopes and wash away. I think my fertilization has been a super bust with this reno. Fert spike from tree for instance:









Cleanup mow pics:


----------



## g-man

How about liquid fert for the slopes? Yes, it means dealing with the backpack sprayer.

Did you find a quick/easy way to post the images from google? I took me like 10 steps when I tried it.


----------



## fusebox7

Liquid fert or aerate and drop granular. Probably the first. Foliar apps can go down with other things like PGR and FAS etc etc.

Nothing easier than what you did re: Google. 
1) Get Link (to make it public)
2) Go to that link's URL
3) Right click and "copy image link" (from Chrome)
4) Paste that url between the IMG tags in your post

I am going to see if I can find an easier way since it could be useful to more forum members.


----------



## g-man

From a cell?


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> From a cell?


That's a next-level challenge. I'll look into since I spend all day at a computer and on a phone.


----------



## fusebox7

New forsythia planted last year is starting to bust:









Also seeing some spreading via rhizomes in my bare areas. Yippee! So cool


----------



## fusebox7

Applied Hi-Yield Weed and Grass Stopper with Dimension Herbicide preemergent.
Hand-picked 23965824376 poa annua (almost three 5-gallon buckets worth). Absurd! This is the 3rd time in 2018 that I've done this. What a nut!


----------



## g-man

What is your prem rate in the fall?


----------



## social port

fusebox7 said:


> Applied Hi-Yield Weed and Grass Stopper with Dimension Herbicide preemergent.


I've seen this brand in some coop/farm supply stores. I have always wondered it. I didn't realize that Dimension is the AI.


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> What is your prem rate in the fall?


I think earlier in my thread/log we may have talked about that IIRC. I think the issue is I've been applying the pre-m too late (mid/late august) and the poa annua will pretty much germinate/thrive whenever it can here. I plan on doing a pre-m every 2-3 months now because I'm sick of dealing with the poa annua. I also might switch back to Dimension for the whole year instead of Prodiamine (different discussion and a bit of time to think that one through).

Something like:
-early May
-early July
-early Sept
-early Nov

...and see if that changes things.


----------



## g-man

That sounds like a good plan.


----------



## fusebox7

social port said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Applied Hi-Yield Weed and Grass Stopper with Dimension Herbicide preemergent.
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen this brand in some coop/farm supply stores. I have always wondered it. I didn't realize that Dimension is the AI.
Click to expand...

Yeah - honestly I don't see much in the way of Dithiopyr anymore. I was happy to find this and it's not badly priced where I'm at. We'll see if this works for me this time around. I don't have a huge lot so it's cost effective for my purposes.


----------



## fusebox7

Well will you look at that? Dormant seeding the KBG worked great!


----------



## Pete1313

Congrats on the new babies!


----------



## fusebox7

Pete1313 said:


> Congrats on the new babies!


Thx Pete! Rest of last year's reno is starting to spread. Excited to watch it over the next month  I am aiming for 100% coverage by fall. That would be awesome.


----------



## Pete1313

fusebox7 said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on the new babies!
> 
> 
> 
> Thx Pete! Rest of last year's reno is starting to spread. Excited to watch it over the next month  I am aiming for 100% coverage by fall. That would be awesome.
Click to expand...

 :thumbsup: I'm hoping for 100% by fall as well. I'm skeptical, but will do what I can to reach that goal!


----------



## fusebox7

It's just now showing signs of life after a long winter sleep. Posting these pics so I can compare both in the fall and next year this time.


----------



## fusebox7

I have a lot more work to do on getting the lawn established if I am going to meet my goal of 100% coverage this year (by fall). I need to take care of quite a bit of clover that is invading the entire yard so I'll hit that with the 3-way soon. On that note, I suspect the clover has done well because of my inadequate fertilization (urea) during the establishment last year. I'm dropping milorganite this year and already noticing a massive improvement (thicker, darker leaves on the KBG). I think Milo and other smaller-granule fertilizers settle into my canopy better and don't move around TOO much when we get rain or it's irrigated. I'll be spending more money, sure, but if it works best... ... I might venture into liquid urea territory once I have full coverage (assuming Milo gets me there this year).

I think I'll find out if the Milo program this spring is going to get the lawn headed in the right direction. ::fingers crossed::


----------



## fusebox7

OUCH! I hit a screw (yeah...) with the Tru Cut and it jammed the reel and stalled the machine. I checked the damage and it was a chipped/dented bedknife and 1 blade of the reel. It was clipping hard when spun so I decided to grind (carefully) the pieces of metal that were bent out of shape (used Dremel). This actually worked way better than I thought it would. I did have to adjust the reel-to-bedknife clearance because when the screw got lodged it pushed the reel out further so I didn't get any contact. After figuring out the best way to tap the reel a tiny bit closer I was able to test-cut paper strips across the whole bedknife and we were back in business. Fingers crossed that there aren't any more screws in my yard... but I WAS able to finish mowing with no ill-effect


----------



## Pete1313

Not fun. Good that everything is good now.


----------



## fusebox7

Pete1313 said:


> Not fun. Good that everything is good now.


Thanks. We'll see how she holds up - fingers crossed.

In other news... moved about 20 plugs to some areas that need a little bit of help filling in. Pretty happy with the root development in my parking strip. I know a lot of people have really poor soil in that general area. Mine is a nice sandy loam. I wish I had it in my whole yard. I'll improve it with time... lots of time...


----------



## Pete1313

Wow! Not bad for a young lawn!


----------



## fusebox7

Pete1313 said:


> Wow! Not bad for a young lawn!


Thanks  About 11 months... almost a toddler


----------



## HomerGuy

Impressive plugs! Look at them roots!

What did you use to cut one so cleanly?


----------



## fusebox7

HomerGuy said:


> Impressive plugs! Look at them roots!
> 
> What did you use to cut one so cleanly?


Thanks. Just used the good 'ol pro plugger w/ the 2" ring. The roots are strong enough to pull out of the loose soil there. Like I mentioned to Pete, having "loose" sandy loam make pulling plugs VERY easy! Enough sand to allow easy penetration of air/nutrients and enough loam to hold moisture. My parking strips (where the best soil profile exists) look 10 times better than the rest of my lawn because of this. The plugs I pulled there will probably fill in within a weeks because the rhizomes don't have to corkscrew their way through tough, compacted soil.


----------



## fusebox7

It's getting there. I think we're in flush mode... 2nd mow in 3 days... at 7/8" in front and 1" in back. It's filling in already. KBG is the best. (Also who says that Tru Cut mowers don't stripe well?) :shock:


----------



## g-man

Nice!


----------



## vnephologist

Looking awesome! I'm really wanting a reel.


----------



## LIgrass

I can't see the pics for some reason


----------



## Pete1313

Same here..


----------



## fusebox7

LIgrass said:


> I can't see the pics for some reason


How about now?


----------



## Pete1313

Yup! :thumbsup:


----------



## Dom2123

Wow looks really good !!


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Sweet :thumbup:


----------



## fusebox7

Thanks guys - I'm excited to see it get better throughout the growing season. It woke up pretty slowly but got right to work! Supposedly the next month or so is when the spreading really kicks into high gear.


----------



## Wolverine

Get some RGS bio-stimulant from the Lawn Care nut and you will be amazed. I did an app on my 2 year old KBG Lawn before 2" if rain and all I can say is wow! Stuff is legit


----------



## fusebox7

Wolverine said:


> Get some RGS bio-stimulant from the Lawn Care nut and you will be amazed. I did an app on my 2 year old KBG Lawn before 2" if rain and all I can say is wow! Stuff is legit


No thanks.


----------



## Suburban Jungle Life

fusebox7 said:


> Wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get some RGS bio-stimulant from the Lawn Care nut and you will be amazed. I did an app on my 2 year old KBG Lawn before 2" if rain and all I can say is wow! Stuff is legit
> 
> 
> 
> No thanks.
Click to expand...

 :lol: Oh man. That was blunt.


----------



## fusebox7

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wolverine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get some RGS bio-stimulant from the Lawn Care nut and you will be amazed. I did an app on my 2 year old KBG Lawn before 2" if rain and all I can say is wow! Stuff is legit
> 
> 
> 
> No thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :lol: Oh man. That was blunt.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean it like that but it was way out of left field so ... yeah. Hopefully no harm no foul.


----------



## fusebox7

Mowed after 7 days of being out of town. KBG seedhead lawn. It wasn't that tall Maybe 2.5" max but the seedheads were absolutely insane. Got the rotary out and mowed at about 2". Looks really nice at this height. With all of the heat and irrigation system still turned off (broken/rerouting of pipes needing time to fix), I may just stick with the rotary at this height. The Poa triv in my NE lawn has almost completely browned out already. Damn... looks like I'm getting after it next year. I might just get a sod-cutter and move some good turf from beds I want to create in the back yard.

Maybe I'll bust the reel out again this fall. I'm actually enjoying the color and blade width (I like wider blades?) at this ~2" height.


----------



## fusebox7

Lawn is looking really nice and thickening up. Haven't turned on the irrigation yet> Neighbors' yards are showing drought stress despite their (albeit bad) watering practices. Starting to believe in the "elite" KBG cultivars. Getting a good soak of rain today which should help keep the grass in good standing.

Found a couple patches of triv yesterday. Used glyphosate on one where I had previously dug it out (or so I thought). Lawn seems to be growing faster when longer (it's around 2"). I mowed only a couple days ago and it's already in need of another cut. I want to go lower again (7/8-1.0") but keep playing games in my head about how to beat the annua and triv. Been trying to find newer studies on elite KBG vs. annua/triv since the elite KBG is supposed to be a lot more competitive at lower heights. I worry that if I let the grass grow too long that the triv will just interweave beneath and then when I notice it, it'll be too late (huge patches).

Someone want to give me a sanity test?


----------



## fusebox7

Having a hard time convincing myself that I can win the poa battle in the NE section without a Reno. That part of the lawn is significantly lower quality than the rest and I can't stomach it. I'm going to stick it out this year and keep executing the "don't irrigate it" plan since that part of the yard is both the sandiest and wettest (anomaly?). If I don't see improvement by end of fall next year I'll probably just end the insanity and start over with a different plan.

I am seeing poa a germination every month of the growing season. I need to put down much heavier rates of pre emergent and more often because of the wet sand. What a challenge!


----------



## g-man

Your poa battle is insane. I think the more often prem makes sense.

Have you tried pgr to slow your grow (and POA t)?


----------



## fusebox7

@g-man 
Found out why this part of the yard sucks... my neighbor's whole yard is showing bright green poa annua and triv. TONS of triv. This stuff will turn completely brown but he waters a lot so it might just keep coming into my yard. Really difficult situation since I can't stop that stuff from coming over and he mulch mows too.

I have t-pac but have not tried growth regulator yet. I wanted to get a full year of the new KBG lawn under my belt (learn) before I start doing things other than applying Milorganite and herbicides. I am really curious to try it out though.


----------



## fusebox7

The reason I'm so upset about this "NE" part of the lawn is that the rest of the hard work is really paying off and the following photos are something I'm really proud of. Battling through a reno while having our first baby and continuing to work on the lawn while juggling a 16 month old and another one on the way in a couple months... I'm really not going to have much time to do "lawn things" the next couple years (maybe more if my seed is as viable as poa annua...).

HOC 1.75" - (got the reel back out again):


----------



## iowa jim

Your hard work is really starting to show. Lawn is looking great, and that color looks awesome.


----------



## g-man

Your front slope is all filled in. PGR should help you as you go lower in hoc.

Im not sure what to think about the neighbor poa t. Some member discussed some success with tenacity being used late in the season to hurt it. Maybe using it only in the property line to keep it at bay.


----------



## fusebox7

iowa jim said:


> Your hard work is really starting to show. Lawn is looking great, and that color looks awesome.


Thank you. Really appreciate your comments. I need to start shooting the lawn with my DSLR so it can be more accurate. Phone cameras are still really inconsistent. The color is really great. I haven't added much in the way of anything this year (2 apps of Milorganite) and even so that slope is the king of runoff hence the bottom being a bit darker than the rest.


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> Your front slope is all filled in. PGR should help you as you go lower in hoc.
> 
> Im not sure what to think about the neighbor poa t. Some member discussed some success with tenacity being used late in the season to hurt it. Maybe using it only in the property line to keep it at bay.


The front slope is my flagship  It's set up well to be on display so I am glad to see it doing much better this year. There are still a couple areas at the top that are compacted that I'm working on but it's done a magnificent job filling in without me forcing it.

The property line is always a tricky one. I actually thought about doing a big long bed there but that's pretty absurd since it'd be like 150 feet. I wish I could install some sort of edge/border in ground but that'd also be intensive labor. I guess I'm just going to have to live with it and do what I can (Tenacity/PGR/kill the neighbor's whole yard)... :lol:


----------



## Green

g-man said:


> Im not sure what to think about the neighbor poa t. Some member discussed some success with tenacity being used late in the season to hurt it. Maybe using it only in the property line to keep it at bay.


That may have been me. See my lawn journal (page 2) for more info.


----------



## fusebox7

Green said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im not sure what to think about the neighbor poa t. Some member discussed some success with tenacity being used late in the season to hurt it. Maybe using it only in the property line to keep it at bay.
> 
> 
> 
> That may have been me. See my lawn journal (page 2) for more info.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. Thanks. Do you think it was the Tenacity or your previous Velocity treatments? I really am not a fan of spraying chemicals so anything I do use I really want to make the most of.


----------



## Green

fusebox7 said:


> Do you think it was the Tenacity or your previous Velocity treatments? I really am not a fan of spraying chemicals so anything I do use I really want to make the most of.


I don't know. What I do know is that the Velocity really reduced the amount of Triv (and some of the good grass, which is why I overseeded). After the overseed, any Triv that popped up again looked like it was new growth. Maybe the Tenacity had an easier time dealing with that. Maybe the cold over the Winter helped. Maybe the lack of rain was a variable, too. I do know minimal amounts came back this year. That said, people have had luck on KBG with Certainty. Maybe try a similar approach with Certainty and Tenacity.


----------



## fusebox7

Green said:


> Maybe try a similar approach with Certainty and Tenacity.


I have both of them. Haven't planned the attack yet but I might as well go in guns blazing since everything is growing fast right now.


----------



## fusebox7

New front HOC - 1 3/8". Single cut.
New back HOC - 1 5/8". Had to quad-cut to get stragglers - did not catch clippings for more OM.
Won't go lower than this without irrigation. Going to be hot and dry this week. Will let 'er creep back up to 2" before taking her back to 1 3/8" again.

Going to hit the NE section with Tenacity this week and probably follow up with a strip of Certainty along the 150' property line. I feel so bad for my neighbor that Triv is growing so fast he's having to lop of tons of it with each mow. Unfortunately he keeps watering it thinking its poor color is due to drought stress.

Part of me is trying to cope with the fact that as long as it's green and healthy, I'll just continue to mow low because it's pretty dense (getting there!) and if that can be maintained then "ok"... the other part of me is trying to stay as close to 100% KBG as possible and not let my guard down. I am about to enter a battle that could last years... fingers crossed.


----------



## Pete1313

Sorry to hear about the weed battle, but man do those pics look good! :thumbsup:


----------



## fusebox7

Pete1313 said:


> Sorry to hear about the weed battle, but man do those pics look good! :thumbsup:


Thanks Pete. At least it's less noticeable when mowed reel low  It's a hobby not a profession (for me at least) so I'm not going to get too bent out of shape over the poa A/T issues.

It's come a LONG way in 1 year so things are looking way up overall!


----------



## LIgrass

Looking good! The poa T&A is just all part of the hobby. You could always Roundup, cut it out and now plug with the KBG you have it will fill in fast in Spring & Fall.

By any chance do you have any leftover of that original SS PRG blend from last year?


----------



## fusebox7

LIgrass said:


> Looking good! The poa T&A is just all part of the hobby. You could always Roundup, cut it out and now plug with the KBG you have it will fill in fast in Spring & Fall.
> 
> By any chance do you have any leftover of that original SS PRG blend from last year?


I'll probably use Tenacity just to see where it is. I might cut out the Poa A too since there's probably 1,000,000 seeds where each plant is. I also have a lot of perennial Poa that spreads like triv. It's going to be a lot of trial and error.

That PRG is long gone. I had planted the remainder under my deck for erosion control before our (now finished) under-deck storage. Looks like SSS has a similar blend now. Karma and SR4650 are both spreading PRG cultivars.


----------



## fusebox7

Forgot to log that I started my 30 gallon grass clipping tea yesterday


----------



## fusebox7

Purchased Xonerate 2SC... the battle begins 

Going with the Tenacity 5 fl oz/A + Xonerate 2 oz/A regimen which has shown significant Poa annua reduction in this WSU study: http://turf.wsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Tenacity-XonerateWenatchee2015FinalFinal.pdf


----------



## HomerGuy

fusebox7 said:


> Purchased Xonerate 2SC... the battle begins
> 
> Going with the Tenacity 5 fl oz/A + Xonerate 2 oz/A regimen which has shown significant Poa annua reduction in this WSU study: http://turf.wsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Tenacity-XonerateWenatchee2015FinalFinal.pdf


Whoa! That escalated quickly  That's quite an investment in the Poa battle.


----------



## fusebox7

HomerGuy said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Purchased Xonerate 2SC... the battle begins
> 
> Going with the Tenacity 5 fl oz/A + Xonerate 2 oz/A regimen which has shown significant Poa annua reduction in this WSU study: http://turf.wsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Tenacity-XonerateWenatchee2015FinalFinal.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Whoa! That escalated quickly  That's quite an investment in the Poa battle.
Click to expand...

I need to get control. I still have Poa popping up and it's almost mid June and I haven't irrigated a single time (system still off). It's likely going to germinate during every growing month (seeing how my Pre-M was ineffective in past years). The Triv is a similar but different issue but I need to start hitting back at that too before it gets too late. This herbicide regimen will affect both in my favor but timing is going to be key. I know I'm investing in a multi-year battle but if I can see that I am winning bit by bit each year, I'll take that!


----------



## g-man

It will be nice if you could get access to some poacure (methiozolin).


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> It will be nice if you could get access to some poacure (methiozolin).


Certainly. I'll take what I can get. Probably will start PGR in the late summer in addition to the Tenacity + Xonerate fall apps.


----------



## fusebox7

Yesterday: mowed front at 1-3/8"
Today: mowed back at 1-1/2" (down from 1-5/8")
Mowed test plot at 7/8".


----------



## g-man

Test plot?  I'm itching to go to 0.75in, but I will wait for the fall.


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> Test plot?  I'm itching to go to 0.75in, but I will wait for the fall.


Yeah like 8' x 8' section. A little off color right now but because I dropped from 1-5/8" to 7/8". Will bounce back in a week or two I'm sure as I keep mowing at that height. Probably will do my PGR testing there too (and FAS).


----------



## fusebox7

These are now about a year old. I let them grow out a bit to see how they fared when excessively long (does the growth habit change (wider blades, floppy, stiff, darker, etc.). No fertilization, nor irrigation (other than natural rainfall).

Observations:

Award: Lowest growing. Darkest. Most horizontal leaves.
Bewitched: Lightest. Spread the most.
Mazama: Bunchiest. Most upright. Almost as dark as Award. Hasn't spread.


----------



## fusebox7

Finally turned the irrigation on as the drought stress was starting to show and we're not getting enough natural irrigation to keep the turf healthy in the front. The back looks great as it's a tad longer and more shaded. Irrigating the front slope right now for 45 mins. KBG looks so good when wet!


----------



## fusebox7

No irrigation or fertilizer in the back yet this year. HOC 7/8".


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Looks great. Especially for no fertilizer or irrigation. Love the HOC.


----------



## fusebox7

Thanks. The drought performance has been far exceeding my expectations.


----------



## fusebox7

2nd mow at 7/8" on this section. Probably the best I can do without a groomer/brush. All those horizontal leaves are never going to get cut. I've quad-cut and they're still there. As much as I LOVE the reel cut... I'm having a hard time convincing myself that this is the HOC I want to maintain long term. With another little one on the way in August, I can't keep up like I used to and will be perfectly happy mowing at the lower end of the rotary spectrum. I had/have a Honda HRR (~5 years old?) and it just fell apart on me so I'm hesitant to go the Honda route again even though the HRX series gets raving reviews.


----------



## g-man

You need to start PGR at reel mowing heights.


----------



## fusebox7

Dug up Zone 3 valve so I can get it rerouted and tied back in. That zone needs the water the most as it's very sandy. It's showing drought stress and dormancy in some areas. The slow mist/rain has helped but the temps are headed back up so this supplemental irrigation needs to be fixed/available. Gotta go buy a 1" elbow tomorrow... might pick up a Timemaster while I'm out


----------



## fusebox7

None of the big box stores had any elbow barbed fittings for 1" poly so I ordered via Amzn and it'll be here Wednesday. Looking to get Zone 3 operational by Friday before I am out of town for the weekend.

Decided to fix the Honda HRR so I ordered new rear wheels and assembly to fix the gear/drivetrain. Hopefully it's not too big of a project but since that was a pretty significant investment 5 years ago I'll stick with it since the engine and blades, etc. are all in great shape.


----------



## fusebox7

Well the lawn got away from me and was around 3.5" so I cut it down to 3" in the back. The front was a bit shorter so I mowed that at 2 1/4". Zone 3 is greening up and Rachio has it scheduled for a watering the next 3 days due to the heat. I haven't mowed that in several weeks because it's been going dormant.

In other news... big shocker. Poa annua popping up EVERYWHERE. Going to have to wait to hit it with Tenacity until the temps break. Who knows when that will be. This is scary odd weather for us. A whole weeks of 90s is absolutely unheard of... I bet the Thuja Green Giants are about to skyrocket because they love the heat (as long as they have wet feet).


----------



## fusebox7

This morning the long grass look is great with all of the dew. Dew point is like 76 degrees or something ridiculous. We are going to be in the 90s for 10 days supposedly... Rachio wants to water almost every day when it normally wants to water every 7-10 days. Evapotranspiration must be predicted to be outrageously high.

Does anyone know if Rachio has an automated feature to perform syringing when say the ET or UV + temp etc. exceeds a certain threshold? If not, is there a "hack" to do this rather than having to remember to manually flip it on for a few mins?


----------



## Green

How's it going with the heat?


----------



## Green

fusebox7 said:


> These are now about a year old. I let them grow out a bit to see how they fared when excessively long (does the growth habit change (wider blades, floppy, stiff, darker, etc.). No fertilization, nor irrigation (other than natural rainfall).
> 
> Observations:
> 
> Award: Lowest growing. Darkest. Most horizontal leaves.
> Bewitched: Lightest. Spread the most.
> Mazama: Bunchiest. Most upright. Almost as dark as Award. Hasn't spread.


Mazama is so cool...it looks like a darker version of America...very upright growth. Probably would mix well with TTTF. The America I have in my mix is a bit light in color compared to the TTTF and Bewitched, which are both very dark.


----------



## fusebox7

@Green if I remember correctly they both have Unique in their parental line so that would explain those traits.

The stand is doing very well in the heat. Almost unfazed, but I irrigate. The areas that have good soil get irrigated about once every 7-10 days and the front slope and the sandy poa hotbed that I've been posting about (that I let almost go dormant) gets watered every 2-3 days now that zone 3 is fixed. It's coming back quickly and nicely. I need to start adding OM to that zone so I can reduce watering but the good news is that the poa annua has been dying out everywhere except for next to my neighbor's yard where his water comes over to my side. That strip is going to get Tenacity and Xonerate after the temps become more reasonable.


----------



## Green

fusebox7 said:


> Green if I remember correctly they both have Unique in their parental line so that would explain those traits.


You mean both America and Mazama? I thought America was the original of its type.


----------



## fusebox7

Green said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Green if I remember correctly they both have Unique in their parental line so that would explain those traits.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean both America and Mazama? I thought America was the original of its type.
Click to expand...

Sorry - was thinking of "Unique", not America. (So I don't remember correctly lol)


----------



## Green

fusebox7 said:


> Sorry - was thinking of "Unique", not America. (So I don't remember correctly lol)


Oh, you mean America X Unique = Mazama?


----------



## fusebox7

Green said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry - was thinking of "Unique", not America. (So I don't remember correctly lol)
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, you mean America X Unique = Mazama?
Click to expand...

No... Midnight x Unique = Mazama.


----------



## Green

fusebox7 said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry - was thinking of "Unique", not America. (So I don't remember correctly lol)
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, you mean America X Unique = Mazama?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No... Midnight x Unique = Mazama.
Click to expand...

Got it. I had forgotten since you posted that on ATY last year. But it makes sense, since Midnight is dark green, and Unique is presumably an America type.


----------



## fusebox7

Cut at 3.5". Need to address some dry spots in the front near the sidewalk but everywhere else is doing A+.


----------



## fusebox7

Started doing some trenching in order to add another head on zone 5 ("the hill"). Need one somewhere at the top that will cover 180 degrees.


----------



## fusebox7

Cut whole yard (minus hell strip) down at 3" from 3.25". Seems way lower. Like this height but want to get back down to 2" soon. Lawn is thick but density will increase at the lower HOC. Didn't give it a chance at the higher heights but might in the next year or two once the whole stand is fully matured.


----------



## iowa jim

Have you given up on the low mow. I know you were down to 1" at one time.


----------



## fusebox7

iowa jim said:


> Have you given up on the low mow. I know you were down to 1" at one time.


We went away for over a week at the end of May and it was in full spring flush. I came back to a lawn that was over 3 inches. At that point the heat started picking up and I still hadn't repaired/turned on my irrigation. I figured it was best to just keep it long. I'm just now starting to slowly bring it back down but have been hesitant with the constant heat and we haven't had rain in several weeks.


----------



## fusebox7

Mowed whole yard at 2.5". We're getting back down to mower-stalling heights  Went through over a tank of gas this time...eek! Zone 3 is almost fully-greened up. The Aerify Plus application seems to have helped with that. Edge/trim landscape beds. Need to edge the sidewalk still. Dreading that :/

Took a video walkthrough of the plantings and KBG lawn now that it's (happy birthday) 1 year old... Very happy all things considered. Excited for fall nitrogen bomb dropping


----------



## Pete1313

Happy one year birthday to your lawn! I can't wait until fall as well to get some N down!


----------



## fusebox7

Pete1313 said:


> Happy one year birthday to your lawn! I can't wait until fall as well to get some N down!


If lawns could talk (and some will argue they can) it would say, "Thanks Pete!" It is starting to look so good. 😀


----------



## fusebox7

2nd mow in 2 days! Again at 2.5. Density is amazing for all this heat. The humidity is getting old...


----------



## SNOWBOB11

The density is looking great. Colour too. Overall it's looking pretty incredible considering this heat. I can only imagine how it's going to look come fall.


----------



## fusebox7

SNOWBOB11 said:


> The density is looking great. Colour too. Overall it's looking pretty incredible considering this heat. I can only imagine how it's going to look come fall.


Thank you sir - appreciate the sanity check  I'm extremely impressed with the KBG reno. This time 2 years ago my no-mix was a goner with less heat and more irrigation. I almost feel bad that it's outperforming the neighborhood by a wide margin. It's not perfect by any stretch (lots of clover, some poa, some triv) but it's green and dense, and that's what most people want in a lawn (especially in the dog days of summer). I'll take it!


----------



## fusebox7

Mow at uhhhh a lower HOC... Honda goes from 2.5" to 1.75. Dropped front wheels a notch but left the rear the same. Guessing it's around 2". THICK. Had to double cut to spread the clippings.


----------



## Creel

Looking good. Can't wait to toss down some KBG on mine really miss the density it creates.


----------



## fusebox7

Creel said:


> Looking good. Can't wait to toss down some KBG on mine really miss the density it creates.


Thanks. It's been at every height this summer despite no rain and tremendous heat/humidity. I haven't noticed anything bad at any height so I'm very I glad I did 100% elite KBG.

I need to get Prodiamine down this morning to stop the next onslaught of Poa annua with the rain we're supposed to get all weekend.


----------



## g-man

^ I was thinking doing the same, but they are forecasting 3in of rain for us. I'm going to wait after the rain. I dont want to risk a washout + I need to be careful around not spraying the reno areas.


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> ^ I was thinking doing the same, but they are forecasting 3in of rain for us. I'm going to wait after the rain. I dont want to risk a washout + I need to be careful around not spraying the reno areas.


Prodiamine is down. Rate applied at 1/2 annual max. Plan to go again in Sept.

We are forecasted around .5 inch so that should be ok. It's sporadic anyways.

Here's a fun picture from just now:


----------



## fusebox7

Ugh. Mowed front at ~2.0" again. Noticed last time the white tips (torn grass blades) and this time as well.

Things I've checked (everything?):
- mower blades as sharp as they can be (sharpened before each mow)
- highest RPM setting on engine
- Yes the blades are installed correctly
- air filter, oil clean

Does there come a point where cutting at lower heights with a rotary are not feasible? The stand is very dense down low. I mowed my parking strip at 4" and am not seeing the white grass blade tips (better cut because of lower density at taller heights?)

It seems the lowest I can go with a decent quality of cut (QOC? haha) is 2.5". How, then, will I get back to reel mowing heights? Is there just a period of time where the grass looks bad until it recuperates back at the 1.25" and lower reel cutting heights? @g-man and @Pete1313 thoughts on this?


----------



## g-man

How much are you removing (from 3in to 2in?) and does the engine sounds like it is slowing down? side discharge or mulching? If you mow again in two days, will it look with torn grass blades?

Once you use the reel, the cut is clean (if you are cutting paper).


----------



## Pete1313

Could it be that you are getting down and cutting into the stem parts and it is being shredded/torn?


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> How much are you removing (from 3in to 2in?) and does the engine sounds like it is slowing down? side discharge or mulching? If you mow again in two days, will it look with torn grass blades?
> 
> Once you use the reel, the cut is clean (if you are cutting paper).


Not removing much. Mowing every 2 days right now. Probably 1/2" max clipping size. Mulching (no side discharge on the mower). Not sure I understand the last question.

Are you saying go back to the reel if I want to cut under 2.5"?


----------



## fusebox7

Pete1313 said:


> Could it be that you are getting down and cutting into the stem parts and it is being shredded/torn?


Nah. Leafy shoots. Not down to the stem. I've gradually been bringing it back down from 3.5" or so. Plan is to get back to reel heights but now with the increased density at 2" below, the rotary is making a mess of it.


----------



## fusebox7

Rain on Saturday, Sunday and today (forecasted for tomorrow and several other days this week). We might just let the grass creep back up to taller heights until late fall. Will probably help with the battle against the poa annua this year. Over winter I'm going to come up with a plan for 2019. I'd like to get back down to reel heights but with the addition of PGR+FAS (haven't sprayed any this year).


----------



## copper44

Happy that the crazy heat seems to finally be gone myself!


----------



## STL

fusebox7 said:


> Rain on Saturday, Sunday and today (forecasted for tomorrow and several other days this week). We might just let the grass creep back up to taller heights until late fall. Will probably help with the battle against the poa annua this year. Over winter I'm going to come up with a plan for 2019. I'd like to get back down to reel heights but with the addition of PGR+FAS (haven't sprayed any this year).


Hey fuse! I was following your reno thread on the other forum and glad I ran into your updates here. You may recall that we both used basically the same blend of kbg.

You mentioned that uniformity for you has been good. I've actually noticed on mine that what appears to be one cultivar grows much faster than the others if left unmowed for 4+days. Since most people's experience with bewitched is that is grows slow, I'm guessing it may be either Mazama or my midnight, Blue Velvet.

I'd be curious if you notice something similar as you let yours grow taller.

Looks great BTW! Very nice job.


----------



## g-man

FYI It is ok to say Around the Yard (ATY).


----------



## STL

@g-man lol. OK, good to know!


----------



## fusebox7

STL said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rain on Saturday, Sunday and today (forecasted for tomorrow and several other days this week). We might just let the grass creep back up to taller heights until late fall. Will probably help with the battle against the poa annua this year. Over winter I'm going to come up with a plan for 2019. I'd like to get back down to reel heights but with the addition of PGR+FAS (haven't sprayed any this year).
> 
> 
> 
> Hey fuse! I was following your reno thread on the other forum and glad I ran into your updates here. You may recall that we both used basically the same blend of kbg.
> 
> You mentioned that uniformity for you has been good. I've actually noticed on mine that what appears to be one cultivar grows much faster than the others if left unmowed for 4+days. Since most people's experience with bewitched is that is grows slow, I'm guessing it may be either Mazama or my midnight, Blue Velvet.
> 
> I'd be curious if you notice something similar as you let yours grow taller.
> 
> Looks great BTW! Very nice job.
Click to expand...

Hey! Glad you made it here. ATY blocked my TWO responses to your post on my thread over there so I am done for good there (and was anyways). A lot of great folks have come over here so I'm really glad about that.

What height are you typically mowing at? I've been mowing every 2-3 days on average but with this recent rain I've let it go and some parts are getting to the 3-4 range (parking strip has been 4-5 inches on purpose, and doing very well).

I really have a hard time telling if there is a certain cultivar growing faster than others. To be honest, I don't know which is which when in my yard. I had posted some pics of the growth habits in the tiny pots I had and I didn't really experience the "slow" growth by Bewitched that others claim. Maybe it's YMMV. As far as vertical GROWTH RATE goes, I feel like they're all very similar. Growth habit is different and expected. Award is an aggressive midnight so it's dark and fast-spreading. Mazama is a compact america with Midnight as a parent so it's a darker america but very tight and "bunchy" growth habit. Maybe this growth habit is manifesting itself as taller grass in your stand? Bewitched seems to have a mix of those two cultivars' traits. Overall I feel like I did a good job of with the 3-way as they are similar enough to my eye that I can't pick them out.


----------



## Miggity

Have you tried Xonerate + Tenacity on mature Poa triv? This study was on TTTF, but it showed effectiveness on triv using Capsil as the surfactant, at least for 50 days after treatment. I wish there was a longer term followup.

http://www.thepaginator.com/Uploadfile/45/1331/pdf/20161226124545691.pdf#page=22


----------



## fusebox7

Miggity said:


> Have you tried Xonerate + Tenacity on mature Poa triv? This study was on TTTF, but it showed effectiveness on triv using Capsil as the surfactant, at least for 50 days after treatment. I wish there was a longer term followup.
> 
> http://www.thepaginator.com/Uploadfile/45/1331/pdf/20161226124545691.pdf#page=22


Xonerate + Tenacity is my plan for both Poa annua and Trivialis in my KBG stand. I haven't had a chance to hit it yet because of the wild heat and now the unpredictable rain. Once things level out I'll give it a shot but I know the best results typically come in the spring (but I also know that doesn't mean to sit around and wait until spring  )


----------



## fusebox7

@STL looks like with fertilization, Mazama does skyrocket... maybe that IS what you're seeing... take a look at a pic I took from last fall's pots (Bewitched left, Mazama right):










BUT also note the density and color difference


----------



## iowa jim

Had a post on midnight, bewitched and mazama pots if you would like to look it up. In my test mazama grew the tallest.


----------



## STL

@fusebox7 thanks for the feedback! I was mowing at 4.25 but recently brought her back down to 3.25 since it just looks much better at that height.

That pic is reflective of the difference in height I'm seeing on my lawn. I'll see if I can get some pics to illustrate it.

You may be on to something with the height difference with fertilization. It's gotten one app of 1.5 bag rate milo a few months ago and two half apps since then. I have some pots left over from last year's reno that I neglected for several months and recently nursed back to health that I may keep as a comparison. In my pots, Blue Velvet is just slightly darker than Mazama and both are a little darker than Bewitched. No fert had been applied and they all appear to basically have the same growth rate.


----------



## fusebox7

@STL I hear you on the mowing height. Although, I feel like whenever I change the HOC, I am more pleased with the new HOC lol.

eg. I go from 1.25" to 7/8"..."oh this is the best HOC"... 
then I let it grow out to 4+ inches..."oh this is definitely the best"...
zap it back to 2.5"..."yep without a doubt the perfect height."

Oye... commitment issues


----------



## fusebox7

This is what is all over my back yard and showing itself again now that I've let the lawn grow out a bit:



















@Green I know I've seen you mention on ATY you've had/seen creeping poa annua. This HAS to be that right? Seeding at lawn heights... it looks JUST like triv but it's lacking that "earthy" triv smell. But damn it all if it ain't just as nasty.

Looks like starting Thursday (forecasted high of 84 tomorrow) is going to be the best day to start my Tenacity+Xonerate onslaught. This should be fun


----------



## Green

fusebox7 said:


> @Green I know I've seen you mention on ATY you've had/seen creeping poa annua. This HAS to be that right? Seeding at lawn heights... it looks JUST like triv but it's lacking that "earthy" triv smell. But damn it all if it ain't just as nasty.
> 
> Looks like starting Thursday (forecasted high of 84 tomorrow) is going to be the best day to start my Tenacity+Xonerate onslaught. This should be fun


Your photos aren't showing up on my end at the moment for some reason. I'll get back to you as soon as they do.

The topic over there has some photos I took, and is called "Found Poa Annua with stolons!"

Edit: Here are the photos from that thread. Note, this is NOT KBG, in case anyone browsing thinks so:


----------



## fusebox7

Green said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Green I know I've seen you mention on ATY you've had/seen creeping poa annua. This HAS to be that right? Seeding at lawn heights... it looks JUST like triv but it's lacking that "earthy" triv smell. But damn it all if it ain't just as nasty.
> 
> Looks like starting Thursday (forecasted high of 84 tomorrow) is going to be the best day to start my Tenacity+Xonerate onslaught. This should be fun
> 
> 
> 
> Your photos aren't showing up on my end at the moment for some reason. I'll get back to you as soon as they do.
> 
> The topic over there has some photos I took, and is called "Found Poa Annua with stolons!"
> 
> Edit: Here are the photos from that thread. Note, this is NOT KBG, in case anyone browsing thinks so:
Click to expand...

Yep same thing. Hoping my planned Tenacity+Xonerate bomb takes it out vs. being triv and ineffective.


----------



## fusebox7

I may start adding T-pac PGR with my Tenacity+Xonerate applications (tank mix) in the fall. There's an interesting article that I've read many times before but somehow missed this part, "However, we do think PGRs improve the mowing quality of rough bluegrass and darken its color similar to that of perennial ryegrass or Kentucky bluegrass, potentially masking its presence". Article: http://www.golfdom.com/an-integrated-strategy-for-controlling-poa-trivialis/

I'd love to try this and do a self-study on it and report results to the forum. I'm not sure what a good control is since I don't really want to NOT do something about the triv


----------



## Green

Yours looks slightly different...even closer to KBG and Triv than mine. Mine looked just like annua, except with stolons. Maybe there are different subtypes.

Does Xonerate have any activity against Triv? Where are you getting it and at what cost?


----------



## fusebox7

Green said:


> Yours looks slightly different...even closer to KBG and Triv than mine. Mine looked just like annua, except with stolons. Maybe there are different subtypes.
> 
> Does Xonerate have any activity against Triv? Where are you getting it and at what cost?


If it's definitive (everything I've found online) that triv doesn't seed until it's at least 7", then this isn't triv.
As for Xonerate - I bought it for my ongoing Poa annua battles. Poa triv IS listed as a controlled/suppressed weed BUT only on seedlings not mature plants.

Anything with stolons or rhizomes is difficult to control. I'm facing a similar (even more annoying) battle with staghorn sumac on the west side of my house (adjacent to a natural area full of mature ones).


----------



## fusebox7

Bookmark for more reading later. LOVE this. https://turf.unl.edu/Presentations/JohnDeereUniversityOmaha/JDL-Poa-annual-control.pdf


----------



## g-man

Another work from Zac Reicher. Boiler up!


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> Another work from Zac Reicher. Boiler up!


Anything good and in-depth on the poa annua/trivialis topic... yep it's from him.

I need to use my contacts at MSU to dig into this more at a local level since I know there are all sorts of different bio-types of annua (and maybe triv too?). Supposedly there are glyphosate and prodiamine resistant strains (poa a) that have been found... maybe MSU's researchers can help pinpoint the kinds I have and what is most effective on them (since results widely vary).


----------



## fusebox7

Not gonna lie... my favorite look is the few-day-old cut (no stripes) covered in dew in the morning (no sun)...


----------



## fusebox7

Bombs away!

.024 oz/K Xonerate
+
.08 oz/K Tenacity
+
0.6 oz/K T-pac PGR
+
surfactant & blue marker

Next application: 7/29


----------



## STL

fusebox7 said:


> @STL I hear you on the mowing height. Although, I feel like whenever I change the HOC, I am more pleased with the new HOC lol.
> 
> eg. I go from 1.25" to 7/8"..."oh this is the best HOC"...
> then I let it grow out to 4+ inches..."oh this is definitely the best"...
> zap it back to 2.5"..."yep without a doubt the perfect height."
> 
> Oye... commitment issues


Ha! Ain't that the truth!


----------



## SNOWBOB11

@fusebox7 not sure why your picture isn't showing up anymore but it was this morning and I have to say the lawn is looking great. I hope someone nominates you for lotm.


----------



## fusebox7

SNOWBOB11 said:


> @fusebox7 not sure why your picture isn't showing up anymore but it was this morning and I have to say the lawn is looking great. I hope someone nominates you for lotm.


Thank you. I am flattered by that comment! Did I fix the photo? There's something weird with Google photos and publicly shared files. I just uploaded it from my phone instead.


----------



## g-man

The image is now showing. I'm biased, I like the 1in look better. It is cool to see how much it filled in.


----------



## iowa jim

Love the color and its really starting to thicken up. : nice :


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> The image is now showing. I'm biased, I like the 1in look better. It is cool to see how much it filled in.


I love all heights now that I've seen them. I really should bring it back down so I can get good penetration with my sprays. I'm worried that at the longer heights the poa annua and other crap is shielded by the canopy. We'll see...


----------



## fusebox7

Here's the other side where you can see non-performing and/or unirrigated lawns. You can also see the spot by the driveway really starting to close up (I'll construct before/after pics of the lawn this fall).


----------



## fusebox7

Parking strip @ 4"
Remainder @ 2.5"

Can tell the grass is hungry. Might need to go get some Milwaukee dookie.


----------



## fusebox7

Been playing with the reel mower on this section. This part gets about 50% shade, roughly.


----------



## fusebox7

Looks like the first shot of Tenacity+Xonerate+Primo has smelled doom for a lot of the poa A&T. Lots of wispy and/or thinning/browning with very little to no bleaching of KBG. Other stuff like clover is lightening, albeit more slowly (expected).

Got some liquid urea (slow release) to use weekly for August before switching into fast release for Sept and Oct. I think I'm going bi-weekly for fall blitz with 0.5lb N/k. Should be plenty at this point. So that's around 9 or 10 more fert apps unless we have an earlier frost.


----------



## fusebox7

I stated earlier this year that there was one area I was intentionally leaving alone to monitor KBG spreading... I have to say I'm pretty impressed given that this is the 1-year birthday of the lawn...

First picture, June 1, 2018
Second picture, July 30, 2018


----------



## Budstl

Dang. That's pretty sweet.


----------



## g-man

Give it two fall months and it will be filled.


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> Give it two fall months and it will be filled.





Budstl said:


> Dang. That's pretty sweet.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Pete1313

fusebox7 said:


> I stated earlier this year that there was one area I was intentionally leaving alone to monitor KBG spreading... I have to say I'm pretty impressed given that this is the 1-year birthday of the lawn...
> 
> First picture, June 1, 2018
> Second picture, July 30, 2018


That is impressive! :thumbsup:


----------



## fusebox7

Pete1313 said:


> That is impressive! :thumbsup:


Yessir! I have some other progress pics but I'll save those for later


----------



## SJ Lawn

@fusebox7 Nice spreading ! How many days of 90+ degree weather did you get during the 2 month period ? Is your soil hard or loose in that area ?


----------



## fusebox7

.1925 lb N / k slow release (liquid) + 4 oz/k FeSO4


----------



## fusebox7

SJ Lawn said:


> @fusebox7 Nice spreading ! How many days of 90+ degree weather did you get during the 2 month period ? Is your soil hard or loose in that area ?


12 days of 90+ degrees in that span. Many highs in the upper 80s, though. Zero rain whatsoever. That part of the yard is mostly sandy loam but next to the driveway is very rocky. I haven't done anything special so I have somewhat of a control area for future experimenting. I'm pretty certain based on what I'm seeing that with extra watering and fertilization it could be 100% closed up by now.


----------



## fusebox7

We're goin' down down baby...


----------



## Pete1313

How low, did you go??


----------



## fusebox7

Pete1313 said:


> How low, did you go??


Bench HOC is 1 5/8" actual HOC is ~ 1.5" maybe a touch lower. It looks SO good. This is definitely the best quality cut I've had. The PGR must've bumped up the density because it looks like it's growing much more upright/tightly now.

I'm goin' goin' back back to an inch soon :lol:


----------



## Pete1313

fusebox7 said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How low, did you go??
> 
> 
> 
> Bench HOC is 1 5/8" actual HOC is ~ 1.5" maybe a touch lower. It looks SO good. This is definitely the best quality cut I've had. The PGR must've bumped up the density because it looks like it's growing much more upright/tightly now.
> 
> I'm goin' goin' back back to an inch soon :lol:
Click to expand...

 :thumbsup: 
I'm having a hard time deciding on a HOC. I was down around 5/8" and it looked great.. now I'm just over 1" as it grew out from vacation and looks awesome as well. I think I'm going to keep mine at 1-1.25" thru fall as it will make it easier to mulch the leaves into it.


----------



## fusebox7

Pete1313 said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How low, did you go??
> 
> 
> 
> Bench HOC is 1 5/8" actual HOC is ~ 1.5" maybe a touch lower. It looks SO good. This is definitely the best quality cut I've had. The PGR must've bumped up the density because it looks like it's growing much more upright/tightly now.
> 
> I'm goin' goin' back back to an inch soon :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :thumbsup:
> I'm having a hard time deciding on a HOC. I was down around 5/8" and it looked great.. now I'm just over 1" as it grew out from vacation and looks awesome as well. I think I'm going to keep mine at 1-1.25" thru fall as it will make it easier to mulch the leaves into it.
Click to expand...

I know exactly how you feel. Every time I change the HOC it's my new favorite! The elite KBG really performs at any height! I've been everywhere between 7/8" and 4.5" and it's just marvelous whatever your preference is. I'm going to stay at the lower end because the density is so nice - especially if I'm now committed to using PGR


----------



## fusebox7

1 3/8" HOC


----------



## pennstater2005

That looks really good!


----------



## Pete1313

I hope you dont mind me posting your pics to compare. It is always cool to see how far a lawn has come over a year. The beauty of KBG! It's looking awesome!

7/29/17









8/1/18


----------



## fusebox7

Pete1313 said:


> I hope you dont mind me posting your pics to compare. It is always cool to see how far a lawn has come over a year. The beauty of KBG! It's looking awesome!


Thanks @Pete1313 - I can't believe it's already been a year. The hydrangeas have really grown a ton in a year too


----------



## fusebox7

Mowed @ 1 3/8" again. PGR has kicked in. Density + tiny clippings.
Also finally got some rain yesterday. About 0.25".


----------



## fusebox7

Almost an inch of rain of a few hours overnight. The soil and plants are breathing a sigh of relief. Temps to be high 70s or just over 80 from here... it's almost TIME!


----------



## g-man

Almost? I started last week.


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> Almost? I started last week.


Cheater! :nod: I'm waiting for the Xonerate+Tenacity effects to wear off before pushing quick N. Not sure if I should do that at the moment. Andy used to talk about "Certainly Certainty Syndrome" on ATY... well Xonerate does the same thing for 2-3 weeks. But... there isn't a poa annua or any other weed in sight... and that's one app at a relatively lower rate.


----------



## fusebox7

Mow at 1 3/8". Don't have to double cut anymore due to consistent HOC and density increase. Total mow time under an hour now (and that's at 1 notch above idle throttle).


----------



## fusebox7

3 inches a rain in an hour. Glad I decided the slow release fert app will go down tomorrow and not today.


----------



## fusebox7

Friday the 10th was FAS and 25-0-0 slow release liquid app. I love iron on the low HOC.


----------



## Pete1313

Lookin good!


----------



## fusebox7

Mow at 1 3/8". Parking strips down to 2.25". Grass is going through its shedding period. Looks like one more week of high 80s and we may be in for lower temps...


----------



## fusebox7

Mowed yesterday (Aug 14) at 1-1/4". The shedding continues...


----------



## fusebox7

Backlapped the Tru Cut for the first time (80 grit then 120 grit finish). Oooh baby can't wait to mow tomorrow


----------



## NoslracNevok

Looks great! Did you put more down around the edges when cutting in? The boundaries look slightly darker in this pic.


----------



## fusebox7

NoslracNevok said:


> Looks great! Did you put more down around the edges when cutting in? The boundaries look slightly darker in this pic.


I don't think so. I don't "cut in" anymore. I actually don't really apply much product directly next to the sidewalk on the slope because of run off. I'm not sure why it looks like that in the picture. Maybe the mowing pattern since there are 1-2 passes around the edges running away from the POV. It doesn't look framed like that in person. Interesting observation, though! And thanks for the kind remarks! :thumbup:


----------



## fusebox7

Mowed at 1-1/4". Has anyone ever noticed a "lower" cut after backlap? I could've sworn it was if I adjusted HOC an eight or two lower. Maybe it's actually cutting more rather than bending the grass over? Who knows. Definitely a lot better cut either way...

Also applied 0.8 lbs N (urea) per 1000 sq ft. Exactly 8 weeks of this until average first frost. Really haven't applied much of anything in the way of N this year so really interested to see the activity kick up.


----------



## JDgreen18

@fusebox7 lookin good hopefully my kbg reno comes out as good....Im 10 days in


----------



## Pete1313

fusebox7 said:


> Mowed at 1-1/4". Has anyone ever noticed a "lower" cut after backlap? I could've sworn it was if I adjusted HOC an eight or two lower. Maybe it's actually cutting more rather than bending the grass over? Who knows. Definitely a lot better cut either way...
> 
> Also applied 0.8 lbs N (urea) per 1000 sq ft. Exactly 8 weeks of this until average first frost. Really haven't applied much of anything in the way of N this year so really interested to see the activity kick up.


I've never noticed a lower cut after a backlap. Probably just a cleaner cut like you mentioned giving the appearance of a lower cut?

I'm starting my urea apps up this weekend also. Looks like some cooler weather and lower humidity coming into the midwest early next week. I'm excited for fall.


----------



## fusebox7

JDgreen18 said:


> @fusebox7 lookin good hopefully my kbg reno comes out as good....Im 10 days in


Thank you and good luck - it's fun to see it really fill in the following year after a reno. I only have a few small holes in the back that I was worried about - very compacted and rocky soil in those areas. They're making progress though. KBG rhizomes are like augers!


----------



## fusebox7

Pete1313 said:


> I'm starting my urea apps up this weekend also. Looks like some cooler weather and lower humidity coming into the midwest early next week. I'm excited for fall.


We are excited for fall too. Even as far north as we are, the summer has been too hot and dry to enjoy (other than water games). This could be the making of a warm, long fall... I remember mowing a couple days before Christmas a few years back. Hopefully it's not THAT long :lol:


----------



## fusebox7

My favorite part about this comparison is seeing the far left part of the lawn expand a whole foot (or more in some areas) to the left (bare ground). The next 8 weeks will be fun.

*Sept 4, 2017:
*









*August 17, 2018:
*


----------



## fusebox7

Mowed the front at 1.25. back is too wet 
Thatch raked a section of the backyard brown dead blades everywhere. Lots of shedding. Pulled out a ton of dead matter. Probably should do the whole yard but too hot for that kind of manual work still.


----------



## fusebox7

fusebox7 said:


> Mowed at 1-1/4". Has anyone ever noticed a "lower" cut after backlap? I could've sworn it was if I adjusted HOC an eight or two lower. Maybe it's actually cutting more rather than bending the grass over? Who knows. Definitely a lot better cut either way...
> 
> Also applied 0.8 lbs N (urea) per 1000 sq ft. Exactly 8 weeks of this until average first frost. Really haven't applied much of anything in the way of N this year so really interested to see the activity kick up.


Not sure what it is but I'm definitely at a lower effective cut than what I used to be at. Same 1.25" machine setting but I'm going to measure the EHOC today - I bet it's at an inch or under. Scalping in a few areas that weren't before. My hunch is the softer soil due to the heavy rains the last week or so. It's not noticeable when walking on it but with a heavy machine, it will easily sink down a bit. I need to be more careful and observant because I'm probably cutting into the crowns.


----------



## fusebox7

Mowed at 1.25" bench HOC... measured afterwards and grass is around 1.00" actual HOC. I ended up putting the OEM roller back on since it brings the roller near the bedknife whereas the reelrollers.com version was too far away for my application at this height. It was a good roller overall but now at the lower height across the entire lawn I'm scalping too often to continue with it.

0.8 lbs N / k
4 month rate of prodiamine
watered in


----------



## Pete1313

How are you measuring your bench HOC? Or is it just a setting on the mower? Reason I ask is because moving the front roller farther away from the reel will lower HOC. At least it does on a JD 220SL like I used to have. With the roller in the full out position, that mower's bench HOC was 7/8". Switching the roller to the full in position and nothing else raised the HOC to 1 1/16"


----------



## fusebox7

Pete1313 said:


> How are you measuring your bench HOC? Or is it just a setting on the mower? Reason I ask is because moving the front roller farther away from the reel will lower HOC. At least it does on a JD 220SL like I used to have. With the roller in the full out position, that mower's bench HOC was 7/8". Switching the roller to the full in position and nothing else raised the HOC to 1 1/16"


Supposedly each notch setting is 1/8" on Tru Cut but I measure by placing a board or piece of steel under the rear wheel and front roller and then measure from the bedknife to the top of the measuring "tool".


----------



## fusebox7

Back home from an unplanned long hospital stay... but with a healthy and handsome baby boy! Momma is doing okay but needs a lot of extra help from dad so lawn care duty is on "survival" mode 

Mowed the front and most of the back at the 1 inch effective HOC I have been doing but noticing that the back is thinning out and the native poa triv is creeping back in... I think because of the shade, dampness and time issues that the back yard is going to be cut long with the rotary. I've gone this route once before (in spring) due to the being out of town and the lawn looked great so hopefully it will thrive better at the longer cut. It will be fun to have low and high cut KBG and do some comparisons here in the log.

The front (shown in image below) has a weird "dead" line. It's either disease due to the germination blanket overpopulation/collection of seed from the reno last year ... OR it's fertilizer burn from having a crappy spreader (Scott's). I HAVE noticed on several occasions that the spreader will just dump granules on one of the wheels instead of shooting it out away from the unit. Suspecting this is the issue, I ordered a Lesco 50 lb broadcast spreader from doing some quick reading on here and other sources. Rest of it looks pretty good to my eye.


----------



## STL

Congratulations on the baby boy, @fusebox7! Is he your first?

The lawn's lookin' great per usual!


----------



## fusebox7

STL said:


> Congratulations on the baby boy, @fusebox7! Is he your first?
> 
> The lawn's lookin' great per usual!


Thank you! We have a 19 month old daughter so they will be pretty close in age and fun times will be had by all :thumbup:


----------



## fusebox7

New Honda HRX2173HYA mower. In LOVE already. Mowed front at 1.25" deck setting and back yard at 2.0" to mulch the black walnuts and leaves. Love the hydrostatic tranny - very smooth. Glad they upgraded these to ball bearing wheels. 5-year old Honda HRR had bushings with infamous problems that Honda refused to properly fix. That'll get sold sometime now...


----------



## fusebox7

Lawn has responded VERY well to first two urea apps at 0.8 lbs N. I'm due for another but holding off due to extremely high heat/humidity. Lots of spreading still happening in bare areas - probably due to tons of rain lately. Ground is definitely saturated with water.

Planning some new landscape beds and going to order some 2ns sand for leveling in the next couple weeks.


----------



## fusebox7

Reel is probably done for the year. Lots of acorns and black walnuts (fruit and leaves) which makes reel mowing way more of a task than necessary. Mowed whole yard at 2.0" with the new HRX.

Our yard gets a LOT of shade from Sept thru leaf fall which isn't great... it's enjoyable but it's not great for the KBG (even with Bewitched and Mazama being the top performers in the shade). I'm noticing a pretty good amount of thinning in the back yard which gets the most shade. I did not realize it was this heavy of shade or I may not have went with all KBG.

To top it off, the back yard also stays wet if we get rainfall because there's no sunlight to dry it out and it's surrounded by forest so it stays very damp. Mowing is almost a bad idea due to the slippery conditions (as I found out again today by falling while mowing). I'm watching for "you know what" (triv) to visit me again because it loves these conditions.

I suppose I'm going to add some more landscaping to some of the more problem areas where grass currently resides and make the back yard more mower-friendly.

The bottom area (bottom tier) is the most problematic area and is close to full shade at this point in the year.


----------



## NoslracNevok

Because of my slippery hill, I've recently been strapping on my baseball cleats. I feel superhuman compared to what was wearing (bare feet, or Teva sandals). About the shade, have you considered blowing the leafs as needed?


----------



## fusebox7

NoslracNevok said:


> Because of my slippery hill, I've recently been strapping on my baseball cleats. I feel superhuman compared to what was wearing (bare feet, or Teva sandals). About the shade, have you considered blowing the leafs as needed?


I wear old running shoes or boots typically but I could probably wear some soccer cleats although I'd be concerned in a couple areas where I typically slip that I'd do more damage with cleats.

I did/do blow the leaves but when it's wet it's not much help. A lot of the black walnut leaves are the long "twigs" of leaves and they are hard to move without picking up. The walnuts have to be picked up. They're great shade trees but they are a major PITA for anyone who likes a clean lawn. By the time I've cleaned the lawn up it's already covered again.


----------



## g-man

@fusebox7 Have you tried this? https://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/garden-landscaping-tools/hand-garden-tools-hoes-rakes-cultivators/garden-weasel-medium-nut-gatherer/95314/p-1500273191383-c-13241.htm?tid=5053342767443583015&ipos=77


----------



## vnephologist

g-man said:


> @fusebox7 Have you tried this? https://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/garden-landscaping-tools/hand-garden-tools-hoes-rakes-cultivators/garden-weasel-medium-nut-gatherer/95314/p-1500273191383-c-13241.htm?tid=5053342767443583015&ipos=77


I second this. Can't speak to this particular model, but another member here turned me onto the Nut Wizard for collecting acorns last Fall. It's genius. http://nutwizard.com


----------



## g-man

By the way, I have not used the menards either. I saw it at the store last week and it looked cool.

By the way, we at TLF always find a way to buy another tool for our lawns.


----------



## fusebox7

vnephologist said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> @fusebox7 Have you tried this? https://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/garden-landscaping-tools/hand-garden-tools-hoes-rakes-cultivators/garden-weasel-medium-nut-gatherer/95314/p-1500273191383-c-13241.htm?tid=5053342767443583015&ipos=77
> 
> 
> 
> I second this. Can't speak to this particular model, but another member here turned me onto the Nut Wizard for collecting acorns last Fall. It's genius. http://nutwizard.com
Click to expand...

Haha this is so awesome. Thanks guys I'll get one and try it out and report back!


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> By the way, I have not used the menards either. I saw it at the store last week and it looked cool.
> 
> By the way, we at TLF always find a way to buy another tool for our lawns.


 :thumbup: :lol:


----------



## fusebox7

Noticed a small area of rust by the sidewalk near the mailbox. Going to investigate other areas but I am due for another urea application. Hopefully can get that down today. Been raining a lot lately.


----------



## fusebox7

Here's a shot from yesterday showing current color. 2 inches height. I like it here.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

fusebox7 said:


> Here's a shot from yesterday showing current color. 2 inches height. I like it here.


Looks awesome!


----------



## fusebox7

ken-n-nancy said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a shot from yesterday showing current color. 2 inches height. I like it here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks awesome!
Click to expand...

Thanks!


----------



## fusebox7

Mowed front at 2 inches deck setting with HRX. Used the new nut gatherer tool to pick up a ton of acorns. Worked pretty well. Better than hand picking or taking.

Poa annua popping up. Fingers crossed that there is a lot less than last year but who knows.

Applied 0.4 lbs N per thousand on whole lawn with new Lesco spreader.


----------



## fusebox7

Cut the back at 2 inches deck setting (HRX). Still wet but good enough to cut. Highs in the upper 60s today and the next two days. If it would just stay dry...


----------



## fusebox7

Mowed all at 2.0".


----------



## fusebox7

As of last night... front slope 100% filled in and getting more dense with the cooler weather + spoon feeding.


----------



## iowa jim

Looks great, what have you been doing lately to get that great color? It seems to have got that dark green to it more over the last month or so.


----------



## fusebox7

iowa jim said:


> Looks great, what have you been doing lately to get that great color? It seems to have got that dark green to it more over the last month or so.


Honestly I think the biggest change is the HOC. More leaf blade = more color. Use putting green vs. fairway vs. rough as a reference.










While I like the turf quality at low/reel heights, I am more interested in dark green color so therefore I'm staying at the 2.0" setting for best of density/uniformity/color combo.

Cooler weather and fertilization probably have smaller contributions but the HOC is definitely the big factor.


----------



## fusebox7

Cut lawn at 2 inches. Parking strips still at 4 inches.

I love fall.


----------



## LawnNeighborSam

Love the color and cuts! beautiful lawn/house


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Looks awesome!


----------



## JDgreen18

Wow fantastic.....I love it....so this is what I to look forward too...nice job


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Looks awesome.


----------



## gm560

Looks great. I especially like the font with the wall of little limes (if my eye serves me correctly).


----------



## Pete1313

fusebox7 said:


> Cut lawn at 2 inches. Parking strips still at 4 inches.
> 
> I love fall.


Beautiful!


----------



## Green

Hey, you reached "that point"! No more bare spots.


----------



## fusebox7

@LawnNeighborSam @JDgreen18 @ken-n-nancy @Pete1313 @Green @SNOWBOB11 @gm560

Thanks everyone for the flattering comments! I really have tried to let the elite KBG do its thing by itself this year and let me tell you it's nothing short of impressive. I tried to murder it with Tenacity and Xonerate and it hung right in there while the Poa a (var reptans) took a massive beating. I still have some but so far the KBG is heavily dominating and that is the goal this year... to get a thick stand in order to prevent the undesirables. There's also quite a bit of clover but I'm not losing sleep over it and I'll get to it when I get to it.

Here's an impressive rhizome chain for entertainment purposes! Look how the rhizomes are intertwining like a vine! So cool


----------



## NoslracNevok

Impressive Length


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Wow. I've been impressed with KBG spreading in my first year lawn too, but haven't seen a rhizome like that. Very impressive and cool to see.


----------



## fusebox7

@NoslracNevok @SNOWBOB11 I am continuing to look forward to the progress this fall. Highs in the 60s starting tomorrow. Lows in the 40s (FINALLY fall)!

From what I've read over the years, next year is really when the KBG starts to spread more easily/rapidly since its reached a 2nd year maturity.

I am going to focus on a home study of the shaded part of the back yard as it's the trouble area for me right now. Might wait until post-winter to start that endeavor but just know that it's much thinner back there. I'll get some pics when we close down for 2018.

2.5" of rain yesterday! HEAVY, soil-eroding rain. Some of my bare areas took a hit in the erosion department so I'm going to need to fill that back in when I can.


----------



## fusebox7

Wow! It looks like I am in the running for LOTM - October 2018. Thank you so much everyone - it's flattering to even be considered for this.

I took a risk since I am going up against a bunch of beautiful Bermuda lawns... here's KBG at reel heights again  Oh, and now this part of the yard is mostly Poa-free!

Before:









Now:


----------



## fusebox7

Frost warning for tonight! Expected low: 35 degrees F. BRRRR. What a quick swing in weather! Oh and a forecasted high of 78 for next week.


----------



## fusebox7

Cut the slope at reel heights again. Lots of progress since spring/summer...


----------



## LawnNeighborSam

BeautIful @fusebox7


----------



## iowa jim

It looks like LOTM to me.


----------



## STL

@fusebox7 saw this post from Milorganite in my facebook news feed and was like, "Hey! I know that lawn!" I guess you're big time now. Lol. Pretty cool.


----------



## fusebox7

Went to mention LawnNeighborSam but looks like he's gone/banned/something.

@iowa jim thank you - very kind words. You're very much well on your way. Can't wait to see how it matures in 2019!

@STL VERY cool - thanks for pointing that one out to me 

Overall I haven't done anything to the lawn including mowing because it's been raining here for 4 straight days. Going to be a squishy mess for awhile since rain is forecasted every day this week through the weekend (I am sure I will see my foe, Mr. Trivialis, soon).


----------



## g-man

Lawnneighborsam chose to deactivate his account this am. If he wants, he could reactivate it.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

g-man said:


> Lawnneighborsam chose to deactivate his account this am. If he wants, he could reactivate it.


I wonder why he would have done that? He seemed to be all about TLF. Kind of odd. Did something happen?


----------



## g-man

No. It is all good.


----------



## fusebox7

Mowed yesterday (10/8). First day it hadn't rained in a long time. Front @ ~1.00" and back/sides at 2.00". As predicted, the poa triv has reared its ugly head in various locations. Going to try to out out and investigate that more today if the weather holds up. Since the ground is so wet and fertile with the rain we've had and the black walnut tree leaf-fall, it should be the easiest to hand pull it. I must look like a nut bending down, pulling grass and smelling it (that unforgettable poa triv identification smell).

Weather-wise, supposed to be 84 degrees today (20 degrees above average) but first frost is predicted for Saturday morning which is almost right on target for average first-frost date.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

fusebox7 said:


> I must look like a nut bending down, pulling grass and smelling it (that unforgettable poa triv identification smell).


Huh! I've never heard of _poa trivialis_ smelling distinctive compared to Kentucky bluegrass. Have you really found that to be a thing?


----------



## fusebox7

ken-n-nancy said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I must look like a nut bending down, pulling grass and smelling it (that unforgettable poa triv identification smell).
> 
> 
> 
> Huh! I've never heard of _poa trivialis_ smelling distinctive compared to Kentucky bluegrass. Have you really found that to be a thing?
Click to expand...

Oh yes. Very much so. I can smell it as I'm walking near it now. If I touch it and smell my fingers, it has a distinctive earthy smell. I remember Andy at ATY talking about this in his experience as well. Not sure if there are different bio-types that do/don't exhibit this trait but it's helped me with confirmation if I'm ever unsure.

Also, while on the topic of strange identification methods  ... @Green mentioned something to me last year that he's noticed: when pulling the leaf blades apart, poa annua and triv seem to exhibit white-stringy threads whereas KBG shows a clean "break" with no fibers when pulled apart.


----------



## g-man

I think it was @GaryCinChicago that posted about the wet dog smell of poa t when you stick your fingers into it. Ive never tried it. I normally run to the garage to get round up right away. No point in delaying the inevitable.


----------



## fusebox7

@g-man I hear you. I hand pull it, stolons and all, if I am able. I don't like using chems if I don't need to. Usually when I notice it, it's in a small bunch - I don't have a big yard and I'm out there enough (and luckily the KBG is dark enough) that it stands out. In my yard, it looks like a lighter PRG with the shiny thin blades and it probably wouldn't be a bad grass if I had a flat grade but that stuff doesn't root at all and is like stepping on a banana peel


----------



## fusebox7

This is what my back yard looks like every single day in the fall. Regardless of mowing. The soil is amazing back here but what a pain haha.


----------



## fusebox7

Hard freeze last night. Lows this week in the 20s and low 30s. The fun is coming to an end for the year. Time to coast until hibernation...


----------



## fusebox7

Irrigation is winterized for the year. Goodnight lawn!


----------



## fusebox7

This is almost completely filled --- if I wouldn't have stunted things for a good 4-6 weeks with Tenacity + Xonerate, this would be indistinguishable from the rest of the lawn. Elite KBG is amazing.

First picture, June 1, 2018
Second picture, July 30, 2018
Third picture, October 17, 2018


----------



## HomerGuy

Very impressive.

Looks like the warm weather is over for us. I winterized my sprinklers on Friday. Now just to keep mulching the leaves till the snow flies.

What were you trying to eliminate with the Tenacity + Xeronate combo?


----------



## samjonester

That's a great sequence of images!


----------



## Alex1389

Truly looks incredible. Great color and density!

On your iron applications, are you going solely with Ferrous Sulfate or are you also mixing in AS?


----------



## fusebox7

HomerGuy said:


> Very impressive.
> 
> Looks like the warm weather is over for us. I winterized my sprinklers on Friday. Now just to keep mulching the leaves till the snow flies.
> 
> What were you trying to eliminate with the Tenacity + Xeronate combo?


I had a TON of poa annua (var. reptans, the perennial, spreading type) in this section of the lawn. It worked because I have only seen a few pop up since the attack in July. It knocked the KBG back quite a bit but it recovered very well and hopefully I won't need to do it again. I'll probably try to sell the Xonerate on the Marketplace at some point since I don't anticipate having to use it again (fingers croseed).


----------



## fusebox7

samjonester said:


> That's a great sequence of images!


Thanks! I think so too 😀


----------



## fusebox7

Alex1389 said:


> Truly looks incredible. Great color and density!
> 
> On your iron applications, are you going solely with Ferrous Sulfate or are you also mixing in AS?


Thank you! Haven't sprayed iron since August 10 but always do FS + AS for better absorption. Surfactant makes a big difference as well in my experience. I'd love to spray another app right now but don't have any time... Hopefully next year I can be more diligent with iron and PGR!


----------



## fusebox7

No coming back now... good night for the 2018 season! Lows in the 20s consistently now... she sleeps until she wakes.


----------



## fusebox7




----------



## g-man

Awesome stripes!


----------



## Pete1313

Looking awesome! :thumbsup: 
I really like this pic!


fusebox7 said:


>


----------



## fusebox7

Thanks @g-man and @Pete1313 ! This is the darkest the grass has been in its short lifetime. Looking forward to next year now that it's had a chance to build it's underground network


----------



## fusebox7

Too early for this... but it sure is pretty.


----------



## HomerGuy

fusebox7 said:


> Too early for this... but it sure is pretty.


Agreed! So not ready for it yet.

We got back from vacation late Wednesday night and then Thursday I worked till dark trying to catch up on all the leaves that fell while I was gone.


----------



## fusebox7

HomerGuy said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too early for this... but it sure is pretty.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed! So not ready for it yet.
> 
> We got back from vacation late Wednesday night and then Thursday I worked till dark trying to catch up on all the leaves that fell while I was gone.
Click to expand...

Yep I have one more mulch "mow" to do once the ground dries up. All the leaves are down with the heavy winds we have had recently.


----------



## fusebox7

The grass is always greener? Wow. What a change from last year! And this is on the dark, cold, north side of the lawn that doesn't see sunlight this time of year! *The parking strip is dormant/brown because I knocked it back to 2.5 inches from 6 inches for mulching and snow prep purposes. Not worried about it.


----------



## HomerGuy

Incredible! Looks fabulous.


----------



## NoslracNevok

Deep green lawn, in December, in Michigan. Well done!


----------



## Green

Amazing it's still so green. Even your neighbor's is fairly green. Mine is already brown.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Wow, that's still really green. Strange winter so far too, with barely any snow and some up and down temperatures. Sometimes I've noticed years with little snow early on can make the grass go brown quicker than if the snow insulates it. Obviously that hasn't been a problem for you. Looks good.


----------



## fusebox7

Thanks - it is very shocking to me since KBG (at least I thought) was first to go dormant vs. the other northern grasses in winter. Hopefully this means this next year will be a great one  Merry Christmas to everyone!


----------



## fusebox7

Before the snow fell yesterday...(a better look at the color):


----------



## fusebox7

The snow has melted and the arctic temps have left (for now)... and yet the deep green still persists... amazing.


----------



## Green

That is crazy. I'd love to know it's still green because of your weather, the grass cultivar blend, or because it's a first year lawn (which I've noticed usually retain color better).

Wait...its actually a second year lawn, right?


----------



## fusebox7

Green said:


> That is crazy. I'd love to know it's still green because of your weather, the grass cultivar blend, or because it's a first year lawn (which I've noticed usually retain color better).
> 
> Wait...its actually a second year lawn, right?


You and me both! ... 2nd year lawn it is. The 1st year it went dormant/brown very fast and stayed brown/dormant well into the spring. And I was thinking that as a first year lawn it would stay green like this. Nature!


----------



## Green

Still just as green? I noticed the few lawns on my street that still had some green have much less now than a month ago.


----------



## fusebox7

@Green no idea lol we've been buried under snow this month... Will keep the journal updated as soon as I know that I still have grass under the snowy blanket


----------



## fusebox7

@Green et al. : Well here's the update for the "end of winter" shot... finally getting out from all of the snow and ice (hopefully until next winter). Stripes and GREEN still there... yes this is 100% KBG haha. Unbelievable. I actually am starting to think that the major contributor to this lasting green color is the low HOC. My back yard is about 50/50 but was cut at a higher HOC toward the latter half the 2018 growing season. My parking strip was cut a lot higher and is about 80/20 brown.


----------



## NoslracNevok

I hypothesize the density provides greater wind cover. Looking great!!


----------



## fusebox7

NoslracNevok said:


> I hypothesize the density provides greater wind cover. Looking great!!


I would agree with that to some degree except most of the winter it's been buried under some nasty snow and ice. Lots of ice this year. I would've thought it'd be in pretty bad shape. Tons of freeze/thaw cycles too. Crazy.


----------



## Pete1313

The color difference between your lawn and your neighbors is insane!


----------



## Green

That is crazy. Maybe the wind just skimmed over it with the low HOC, so didn't dry it out all that much.


----------



## JDgreen18

Wow your grass looks great. Mine looks like it's dead lol most is brown with a little green underneath.


----------



## Chris LI

If that's not a domination line, I don't know what is. Amazing!


----------



## fusebox7

@Pete1313 @Green @JDgreen18 @Chris LI Thanks - hope everyone survived the winter okay... it's almost time


----------



## fusebox7

I think today is the day for first mow... assuming I can walk on the lawn without leaving footprints. It's been a wet/rainy couple of weeks... but it's also been very cloudy and cold. The weather is finally breaking and yesterday reached 70 and we'll be close to 80 today but appearing to be steady in the 60s from here on out. It's nice to see the tree buds swelling and about to burst!

Lots of new landscape beds and plantings in the queue. We have a smaller lot (.26 acre) but we're trying to make it cozy and add some shape/dimension because of the slopes etc. It will look nice when I can actually get the time to work on it for an appropriate amount of time.


----------



## lobitz68

Yard looks great. I noticed that lawns in my area that are cut shorter seem to be greener earlier as well. You may be on to something...

I got a sunburn out in my lawn this weekend. Ugh...


----------



## HomerGuy

I'm a bit east and south of you, and I think I'm going to be mowing for the first time in the next few days. Can't wait! Its been so wet that I want to give it a couple days to dry out good. The area on the north side of the house doesn't get as much sun and seems to stay wet longer.


----------



## MassHole

@fusebox7 - loved this thread. The time lapse pics rock. Great read!

Given what you've learned on the poa triv battle, would you recommend your Xonerate + Tenacity + PGR plan again? If so, what would your schedule / guidance be to someone battling triv in his Midnight KBG?


----------



## fusebox7

@massgrass thanks for reading and stopping by 

re: Xonerate + Tenacity + PGR ... that was used on my "perennial" POA infestation. It absolutely wreaked havoc on everything - you have to be extremely careful about making sure that it is irrigated or you'll lose some of your good turf. This happened to me in one end of the property. I won't report results yet on the POA because it's too early and everything is just waking up here but once I'm confident (I'm not) that the POA is mostly eradicated, I'll post back 

The only thing I've done deliberately with my triv was to physically DIG it out (not pull by hand) or glyphosate. I have one area that I glypho'd that I didn't transplant any KBG back into because I wanted to test the theory of triv coming back after being "nuked". This spring I am trying to see if I got the outer boundary (most literature will tell you to go anywhere from 6" to 36" outside of where you think you see it since stolons are embedded where you can't see). If I remember correctly I sprayed this area relatively early 2018.


----------



## fusebox7

@HomerGuy @lobitz68 it's time to wake after the long slumber  This March/April has been rough! Everything here is slowly blossoming only to be set back by hard frosts... crazy. I can't believe it's almost May!


----------



## fusebox7

Still in the middle of landscaping mania in the back yard. Up to 3-6 inches of snow predicted for tomorrow. Isn't it almost May?


----------



## fusebox7

Hello darkness my old friend...


----------



## Wolverine

Damn it Fuse. Now what? Certainty? Guy? This stuff is relentless. It's been perfect conditions for Poa lately here in Michigan.


----------



## fusebox7

I'm trying to reign in my use of chemicals so this is probably going to get dug out and replaced from a donor site  I'm throwing it in my firepit - I'm sure it'll burn yellow and make a horrifying scream.


----------



## g-man

Nope. It will stay green and come out of the fire pit with 3 baby dragons.


----------



## iowa jim

I suggest a stiff drink and a pair of sunglasses and the problem goes away.


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> Nope. It will stay green and come out of the fire pit with 3 baby dragons.


Probably. I think the term "villain" is very appropriate.


----------



## fusebox7

iowa jim said:


> I suggest a stiff drink and a pair of sunglasses and the problem goes away.


Yeah it's starting to be one of those "if you can't beat em join em" situations.


----------



## Green

@fusebox7 
@g-man

What Poa is that? It looks like it could be the same stuff in that thread we have going with like 300 posts.


----------



## fusebox7

Green said:


> @fusebox7
> @g-man
> 
> What Poa is that? It looks like it could be the same stuff in that thread we have going with like 300 posts.


@green
Mr. Trivialis as far as I know (pretty certain). Remember there are many phenotypes. This one that I know all too well has purple sheathy stems, very horizontal growth (basically any part that touches the soil ends up rooting like a vine).


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## Green

fusebox7 said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> fusebox7
> g-man
> 
> What Poa is that? It looks like it could be the same stuff in that thread we have going with like 300 posts.
> 
> 
> 
> green
> Mr. Trivialis as far as I know (pretty certain). Remember there are many phenotypes. This one that I know all too well has purple sheathy stems, very horizontal growth (basically any part that touches the soil ends up rooting like a vine).
Click to expand...

You may have just given us more evidence for an ID.

So, no true stolons in yours either? More like stems that can root anywhere?

Have you browsed the thread?


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## fusebox7

Green said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> fusebox7
> g-man
> 
> What Poa is that? It looks like it could be the same stuff in that thread we have going with like 300 posts.
> 
> 
> 
> green
> Mr. Trivialis as far as I know (pretty certain). Remember there are many phenotypes. This one that I know all too well has purple sheathy stems, very horizontal growth (basically any part that touches the soil ends up rooting like a vine).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You may have just given us more evidence for an ID.
> 
> So, no true stolons in yours either? More like stems that can root anywhere?
> 
> Have you browsed the thread?
Click to expand...

@Green 
I have seen and read (and gone back) the thread you're talking about. It's a top result on Googling, "poa trivialis"  I think what I have is either the same or similar. I'm not sure I can be convinced that it's NOT triv. I have only known one plant to smell a certain way when I rub it between my fingers and smell them. That's usually step one on my ID checklist for triv now.

What is the consensus on the other thread since it's like 20 some pages long now?


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## Green

@fusebox7, I hate to say it but there's no consensus. We went from Triv to Jungle rice, back to Triv, to some other Poa, then UConn said Orchardgrass, and now we're back to some other Poa as well as Triv because we thought they were wrong.


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## fusebox7

@Green

This is the picture I always go back to whenever people question if it's triv or not. Again, like everything else in biology...many forms!


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## fusebox7

5/6/19: .25N spoon feed. Back yard is very sleepy.


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## HomerGuy

fusebox7 said:


> 5/6/19: .25N spoon feed. Back yard is very sleepy.


Mine has been slow to wake up as well. We had a couple days of nice warm, sunny weather but then a lot of cold and rain.


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## fusebox7

HomerGuy said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5/6/19: .25N spoon feed. Back yard is very sleepy.
> 
> 
> 
> Mine has been slow to wake up as well. We had a couple days of nice warm, sunny weather but then a lot of cold and rain.
Click to expand...

Totally. It's being overrun by undesirables right now because the KBG isn't growing yet. That, in my opinion, is the #1 downside to KBG... it can't compete at the bookends of the growing season. It looks like poa annua has spread rampantly to areas that never had it before too (despite vigilant efforts to have pre-m coverage last summer/fall).


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## Mrotatori

@fusebox7 I did a fall kbg reno last year. I am noticing that it is not growing as quickly as other grass in my yard. Is this a common trait of KBG when it's a cold and wet spring? I keep looking at it, and I am like it does not seem to be growing very fast.


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## fusebox7

@Mrotatori Most of the newer cultivars of KBG are dwarf/slower-growing... which results in less inputs/maintenance. However, if you have other species of turfgrass or pests, disease, undesirable plants to compete with... it is a major downside to have. I think the pros outweigh the cons but as someone that has a very short growing season to begin with, it really can test your patience!


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## iowa jim

Mrotatori said:


> @fusebox7 I did a fall kbg reno last year. I am noticing that it is not growing as quickly as other grass in my yard. Is this a common trait of KBG when it's a cold and wet spring? I keep looking at it, and I am like it does not seem to be growing very fast.


 I have the same problem with my new reno from last fall and have only mowed 1 time so far. Who needs pgr at this pace.


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## Mrotatori

haha @iowa jim , thanks for the clarification too @fusebox7


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## Buddy

iowa jim said:


> Mrotatori said:
> 
> 
> 
> @fusebox7 I did a fall kbg reno last year. I am noticing that it is not growing as quickly as other grass in my yard. Is this a common trait of KBG when it's a cold and wet spring? I keep looking at it, and I am like it does not seem to be growing very fast.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the same problem with my new reno from last fall and have only mowed 1 time so far. Who needs pgr at this pace.
Click to expand...

My renovation has been slow this year also. Hoping that with the recent sun and slow down of rain and clouds every day that it will start to spike up.


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## fusebox7

Did a cleanup of edges in the front (sidewalk, driveway, beds) with the Echo PAS bed redefiner and straight edger. Too muddy so doesn't look great but it will be less work to do a clean pass if the weather ever dries up. Trying to get things situated by mother's day but that may be futile.


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## Chris LI

g-man said:


> Nope. It will stay green and come out of the fire pit with 3 baby dragons.


Maybe Icy Viserion needs to hit it with some ice lightning. I'm entering the triv war and not looking forward to it. Is it worth it to paint with glyphosate, or just spray with a PVC pipe as a shield?


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## fusebox7

I spray glyphosate over the triv and usually a foot beyond in all directions. It's always there where you can't see it. Some people also like to dig the area out afterwards and replace with sod from a donor site. I will be doing this in two areas of my front slope.


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## Chris LI

fusebox7 said:


> I spray glyphosate over the triv and usually a foot beyond in all directions. It's always there where you can't see it. Some people also like to dig the area out afterwards and replace with sod from a donor site. I will be doing this in two areas of my front slope.


Thanks. This is some very helpful info. I've been doing some research and have heard that it's best to spray it in the spring before it goes dormant for the summer. I guess it's time to start spraying, since my recent Tenacity app lit it up (to locate it).


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## fusebox7

Chris LI said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I spray glyphosate over the triv and usually a foot beyond in all directions. It's always there where you can't see it. Some people also like to dig the area out afterwards and replace with sod from a donor site. I will be doing this in two areas of my front slope.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. This is some very helpful info. I've been doing some research and have heard that it's best to spray it in the spring before it goes dormant for the summer. I guess it's time to start spraying, since my recent Tenacity app lit it up (to locate it).
Click to expand...

It helps when it is growing vigorously (warm/moist)... since the uptake will be greater. "Spring flush" as a lot of folks refer to it.


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## Chris LI

fusebox7 said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I spray glyphosate over the triv and usually a foot beyond in all directions. It's always there where you can't see it. Some people also like to dig the area out afterwards and replace with sod from a donor site. I will be doing this in two areas of my front slope.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. This is some very helpful info. I've been doing some research and have heard that it's best to spray it in the spring before it goes dormant for the summer. I guess it's time to start spraying, since my recent Tenacity app lit it up (to locate it).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It helps when it is growing vigorously (warm/moist)... since the uptake will be greater. "Spring flush" as a lot of folks refer to it.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I was thinking along those lines, too. I was always taught to get whatever target weed you're trying to eliminate growing well and then nuke it. This helped me to take out some zoysia. I know a lot of folks tank mix with FAS. I don't have the time to gather the ingredients and mix it up, so I tank mixed FeATURE 6-0-0 with the Tenacity. I'm thinking about mixing some with the glyphosate.


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## fusebox7

This is getting a bit worrisome. I'm seeing the same thing that many others are. Everywhere.


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## fusebox7

There's a load of the darker "stuff" that looks just like KBG but it is "bunchy" and has "wrinkles" in the blades. The yard looks really bad overall right now. I know it's spring and things are just breaking dormancy but this is not a good look for a couple years after 100% KBG reno. I may be mowing tall(er) so I can irrigate at the point of wilting this year and try to combat some of these pests. I don't have the time to keep an aggressive maintenance plan that I have two babies. What a difficult hobby!


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## fusebox7

Not my greatest work but the nasties are gone.


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## fusebox7

Still haven't mowed this year and parts of the yard are still waking up. Clover is spreading indefinitely right now. Some suspicious grassy fellows are starting to seed (type of poa?) Sprayed it today. Letting the grass grow tall this year for lower maintenance purposes and for the kids to play on... what a weird spring so far.


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## Wolverine

Yes. Michigan has had a very cool wet May thus far. The bad Poas are loving it.


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## fusebox7

First mow at 2.5" with the Honda HRX  Probably half the lawn was actually cut. Not sure why it's so uneven this year. (Lots of) clover is starting to die off - forgot to log the application of Bonide Chickweed, Clover & Oxalis killer from last week.


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## Green

@fusebox7, do you still feel that Poa in the photos above is probably a type of Triv based on your past history? I've glyphosated so much of my yard due to this stuff, and am finally starting to reseed. I used to be somewhat against Spring seeding, but have no choice now.

As for the unevenness, maybe all the rain over the Winter and early Spring. My yard is so uneven now, too.


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## fusebox7

@Green Not all of it. Only the two spots I dug up and replaced had the "smell". I actually spotted (quite a bit) more of that in the front-left (northeast) part of my yard yesterday when mowing. The lighter stuff definitely is triv. The darker stuff... unsure. I guess it could be a different type. It's pretty floppy. One thing I know for sure is that it seeds at lawn heights, is extremely stalky and is a darker color (if it weren't for the stalks, it might blend in ok).


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## Green

I and many others have the same stuff. What's odd is is it's dark green in some places, and light in others. Still has the same look to it. I have a ton of it this year, so it likes moisture. And it spreads. I treated it like Triv, using glyphosate in many places. I hope that wasn't a mistake. I hope the seeds aren't viable yet, because if so, all of this will be for nothing. It did not feel like there were actual seeds in the seedheads yet.

If there is a Poa species that is this common, why don't we hear about it?

I posted this in 2014: https://aroundtheyard.com/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13870&p=186432&hilit=Palustris#p186422
Apparently I had several patches back then. Now it's everywhere.

The scientist I have checking into it thinks "Swamp Meadow Grass", which is another Poa species, is a prime contender. But this would be the first time time any has crossed his desk.

Then there's this: https://aroundtheyard.com/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24299&p=333140&hilit=Triv+stalky#p333140
This guy seems to know his weeds pretty well.


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## fusebox7

@Green yeah I remember TimmyG being a self-proclaimed AND ATY-respected weed ID'er. His pics are exactly what I have. My first gut was triv (because I know there are many types). Honestly because there's so much of it, I don't have the time or mental capacity to deal with it. My lawn isn't anywhere near perfect and I don't expect it to be. And now with 2 little ones wanting to be outside with the warmer weather, as long as it's green and comfortable to play on, I think I've hit our family's collective goals.


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## fusebox7

@Green if you remember a few years back I planted a pure PRG stand in my backyard for erosion control since there would be an extended period of time before we did some major landscaping. I was leaning on doing the whole yard with PRG for the purposes of being able to go the glyphosate route in the future and then have grass to mow 1-2 weeks later. PRG is the king of overseeding. In my experience I've gotten KBG to sprout pretty well via dormant seeding but you can only do that once a year... No magic bullets in this area of science!


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## fusebox7

Took 'er down to 2" from ~2.75"... holy seedheads batman!

Anyone have an article about how seedheads develop for some of the grass but not others? Doesn't it have to do with how old the grass plants are?


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## fusebox7

Mowed back at 2.5". Almost woken up... pics soon!


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## Green

fusebox7 said:


> Took 'er down to 2" from ~2.75"... holy seedheads batman!
> 
> Anyone have an article about how seedheads develop for some of the grass but not others? Doesn't it have to do with how old the grass plants are?


I do. I'll post a link.

Edit. Here you go: https://www.southwest.k-state.edu/program_areas/cropping_systems/docs/Holman-Kentucky-BlueGrassGrowthDevelopmentSeed.pdf


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## fusebox7

@Green - thank you.

So my takeaways are: 
-mature tillers will flower in the spring
-new immature tillers that develop in the fall or spring (daylight requirements not met) won't likely flower until the spring thereafter

So then once a tiller flowers, does it always flower each spring (leading to more and more seedheads in your stand)?

Time got away from me this year with the little ones so I missed the PGR period by a mile so I'll be attempting to suppress seedhead development (in Poa a) as well in early spring 2020.


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## Pete1313

Thanks for the link as well @Green.

@fusebox7, seedheads are really bad for me this year as well. Makes me want to look into using a primo/proxy combo next year to suppress them.


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## fusebox7

@Pete1313 it's funny because my lawn woke up about an entire month later than my whole neighborhood but now even with the insane amount of seedheads, I'm getting the "how is it so dark?" comments... I suppose the proliferation of seedheads means that we're getting extensive tillering from our new stands so biologically-speaking they must be in good shape.

It would be incredibly interesting to see what elite KBG seedhead suppression does to the stand quality this time of year... if it's a noticeable improvement I'm right there with you... getting an additional good month out of our lawns would be nice with such a short growing season!


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## Pete1313

I think the same thing, maybe I'm wrong, but all the seedheads might mean the lawn is healthy.

I want to do it for next year (primo/proxy), but if I'm right with the rates of two apps of proxy at 5oz/M mixed with primo, then it would add another $3/M to the lawn budget. Something for me to consider, but would be nice to have that extra month with no seedheads as you mention.


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## fusebox7

Mowed whole lawn @ 3.0" 😶 tons of seedheads still. No irrigation system needed. Still winterized.


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## Pete1313

Looks beautiful!


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## fusebox7

Thanks @Pete1313 it's quite a different beast at the taller height but I need to get full coverage this year with less maintenance so I'm opting for the taller hoc.


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## SNOWBOB11

Looking great as usual. Your backyard is nicely landscaped.


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## JDgreen18

Love the color. I have been cutting mine ar 3-3.5 I really do like the higher hoc.


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## fusebox7

Thank you @SNOWBOB11 and @JDgreen18 !!! We'll see if I can stick it out


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## fusebox7

Just ran over to Big League Lawns (2 miles from my house) to pick up a conversion for my striping kit so it will fit on my HRX now that the older HRR is retired. They moved to a new bigger location due to the scale of their business. Will tack on the striping kit and see how it works with the higher HOC  Interestingly enough they said they'd love to add a rear roller to my Tru Cut as well ... tempting...


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## fusebox7

Ground down two stumps 10 feet apart. Old black cherry and red maple that got root-wiped when the house was built in 2015. Reduced landscape bed and seeded for funsies.


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## fusebox7

It's beating me with all this rain. What to do...what to do...


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## fusebox7

Lawn is approaching 2 years old (born spring of 2017).

Anecdotes:
Year 0: 2017-2018 --- Establishment very slow, slowed more by spring seeding; coverage in fall was still underwhelming.

Year 1: 2018-2018 --- Top growth increased density, most areas were covered, however there were varying degrees of maturity, eg. side yard and front slope grew much slower than back yard, eg2. not as much spreading as anticipated.

Year 2: 2019+ --- Almost 100% coverage. I can tell that the first 2 years were spent developing its underground plumbing. After digging up a couple "donor" areas for triv-replacement, I saw extensive, thick rhizomes holding the sod together (these were not present before now). Because of this, I've seen gaps close before my eyes (next to driveway from snow removal damage, next to trees from exposed roots, in areas where I've had problems with reseeding/washout). Seedhead development is rampant this year... signs of a healthy turf that developed tremendously last year.

Plans for 2019:
I've opted for a taller HOC this year to increase energy for the plants with a lower input (less irrigation, less fertilizer); probably won't have to irrigate at all this year with the deluge we've had this spring (triv is going nuts!). I probably won't go low again until I have the time commitment to mow every 2nd day and stay diligent with irrigation, etc. Goal is 100% coverage and decrease weed pressure through density and canopy height.


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## fusebox7

I could definitely get used to the 3+" HOC. Cut the back today.


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## fusebox7

Welp... we got an accepted offer a new house on Saturday! Moving up to 0.6 acres (.26 acres now) and CANNOT wait to get the ball rolling. Here's a sneak peak at what will become the new lawn journal journey:


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## rob13psu

Awesome news! Congrats! That's going to look beautiful.


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## iowa jim

Probably no poa or triv, what will you do with all your free time? congrats


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## Pete1313

Congrats on the accepted offer! Here's to a smooth closing :beer:, and cant wait to see what you do to the new place!


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## HomerGuy

Congrats on the new house!

The lawn is looking great at the higher height of cut. I know it isn't what you were going for, but it looks amazing.

I feel like my lawn finally woke up this weekend. It was the first time all season that I looked out at it and thought "man, that looks good!". Such a cold wet spring.


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## fusebox7

@rob13psu @iowa jim @Pete1313

Thanks!!! Yeah not sure what to do with 26k sq ft. probably nothing for awhile... just going to enjoy the space!


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## SNOWBOB11

Congrats on the new house @fusebox7. Look forward to seeing what you do with the lawn. :thumbup: :nod:


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## Chris LI

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Congrats on the new house @fusebox7. Look forward to seeing what you do with the lawn. :thumbup: :nod:


Ditto!


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## g-man

Congrats! It has a 3rd car garage (or triplex garage).


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## JDgreen18

Congrats on the new house...now you get to do it all over again lol


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## Green

New house?! I don't check for a few hours and that's what I miss? How long until you leave the current one?


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## fusebox7

@SNOWBOB11 @Chris LI @g-man @Green

Thanks everyone. We'll move in this time this summer. It's in the same town so it won't be a terrible move. There's some undulation to the yard but nothing nearly as challenging as what I have now. It will be fun to have a good chunk of grass


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## fusebox7

@HomerGuy I still have a tremendous amount of seedheads so it really is not up to my liking but I also don't want to do anything about it given our upcoming transition.


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## fusebox7

Closed on the new home yesterday and will be moving on July 3rd! Family is super excited for more room to play yard games (and flat driveway for basketball!)  Annnnd dad is probably getting a new mower... stay tuned...

Couple of sneak peeks of the 0.60 acres:


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## JDgreen18

Wow congrats looks like a beautiful house and property. Will there be another reno in your future lol.


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## Pete1313

Congrats on the new home!


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## Wolverine

Congrats Fuse


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## fusebox7

JDgreen18 said:


> Wow congrats looks like a beautiful house and property. Will there be another reno in your future lol.


Probably at some point after I learn the yard and irrigation (12 zones)... if I'm lucky, next fall (2020) at the soonest. And it will likely be a monostand at that point.


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## fusebox7

Wolverine said:


> Congrats Fuse





Pete1313 said:


> Congrats on the new home!


Thanks guys!


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## NoslracNevok

Congratulations, beautiful house and property! Have you solidified a fall plan?


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## fusebox7

NoslracNevok said:


> Congratulations, beautiful house and property! Have you solidified a fall plan?


Thanks!

Now through fall is identify issues, learn the tendencies (soil/sun/shade/moisture), optimize the irrigation for even/full coverage... then use what I learned to formulate a plan for a 2020 reno 

I will be going aggressive with N this fall just to see how the current mix responds (why _wouldn't _I do this?) :thumbup:


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## fusebox7

@here

continued lawn log over here since moving to the new house: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11543


----------

