# Anyway to Remove Bermuda from Centipede?



## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

The title says it all.

Is there any known ways to remove Bermuda from a Centipede yard.

The lawn right next door to me has low acidic soil and has great looking stand of centipede.

However there are some wild Bermuda areas as well as my own lawn of Bermuda that has spread a little into the Centipede lawn.

Is there any known ways to remove the Bermuda?

Thanks


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

I roto tilled and seeded with Bermuda for a quick fill a few years ago. I over seeded every spring after with Centipede. I basically had <5% Bermuda in my front yard when I decided to swap back to Bermuda this year.

Atrazine early in the spring right as the centipede is coming out of dormancy is usually enough to knock back the Bermuda and give the Centipede time to get it's thicker runners going and shade out the Bermuda.

I don't know if it matters but I was using Tifblair centipede. The common in my field was not nearly as aggressive, but I believe it would have worked with common as well.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

Bermuda is impossible to remove. I don't really know anyone who has successfully done this. I'm sure you can do things to minimize it.

I hit bermuda in my backyard with round up 3 times, poured diesel on a small section, set another section on fire, tilled and used several aggressive grass killers. It came back and it came back very strong. It points at me everytime I go to the back yard and laughs. So I embrace it now.


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## Brodgers88 (Feb 26, 2017)

Sethoxydim herbicide would be an option to work on selectively removing the bermuda from centipede. I'm sure it would take multiple applications and doing everything in favor of the centipede. Another option would be pylex herbicide but that one gets expensive.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Thank you all for the reply's and help.

@Brodgers88 Would my neighbors spot spray the Bermuda or broadcast spray?

Thanks


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## Brodgers88 (Feb 26, 2017)

I would broadcast spray the area initially and see what results are achieved then maybe go to spot spraying if the bermuda is minimal.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Brodgers88 said:


> I would broadcast spray the area initially and see what results are achieved then maybe go to spot spraying if the bermuda is minimal.


 :thumbup:


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## bbroderi (Jun 9, 2021)

I've had luck with suppressing Bermuda with Atrazine. It took probably 4 or 5 weeks before I could really tell it was working, and it hasn't actually killed it. I treated it again recently, and my hope is that the centipede will take over now.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

bbroderi said:


> I've had luck with suppressing Bermuda with Atrazine. It took probably 4 or 5 weeks before I could really tell it was working, and it hasn't actually killed it. I treated it again recently, and my hope is that the centipede will take over now.


Thanks...was this broadcast sprayed as well...or spot sprayed?

Thanks!!!


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## bbroderi (Jun 9, 2021)

ENC_Lawn said:


> bbroderi said:
> 
> 
> > I've had luck with suppressing Bermuda with Atrazine. It took probably 4 or 5 weeks before I could really tell it was working, and it hasn't actually killed it. I treated it again recently, and my hope is that the centipede will take over now.
> ...


The first application was a broadcast spray on my front yard. There was more POA than Bermuda, so the Atrazine was to tackle both of those. My last spray was just a spot spray as the Bermuda is just in a few patches.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

@bbroderi Thanks!

@Greendoc Do you know any other tips to remove Bermuda from Centipede.

Lawn is holding its on pretty good for most part right now.

Lawn las low PH with acidic soil. Centipede is nice dense and is cut around 2 inches HOC.

The Bermuda pops up in areas that get damaged (the lawn had large patch last year).

Any ideas how to remove the Bermuda spots?

Thanks


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

ENC_Lawn said:


> The Bermuda pops up in areas that get damaged (the lawn had large patch last year).


This is 100% the lone reason there was any Bermuda left in my front yard at all as of this year. There is nothing you can do about it other than Atrazine and let the Centipede Run/overseed more centipede.

Once my Centipede canopy was lifted by thinning it out with a heavy dose of MSM the 2 things that happened almost immediately were Bermuda and nutsedge both came up seemingly out of nowhere.

I had a internet company guy come out this year as they had to trench a new line from the road to our house. The guy does that for a living. He commented to me that I had one of the most dense lawns he has ever had to cut through, let alone for somebody living out in the country. That compliment came from him completely unsolicited.

I'm of the belief you can not 100% eliminate Bermuda from a lawn without a serious overhaul involving heavy turning. I also believe you can keep it suppressed under a thicker turf grass. To do so you have to find something that will knock it back, but not affect the centipede. Atrazine was the only thing I've seen work for this.


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## bbroderi (Jun 9, 2021)

Amoo316 said:


> ENC_Lawn said:
> 
> 
> > The Bermuda pops up in areas that get damaged (the lawn had large patch last year).
> ...


I agree with you on the Atrazine. It's been the only thing I've found that can stop/slow Bermuda enough to allow centipede to start filling in. Next year if the Bermuda returns I will apply it earlier in the season and hope it works a little better.

I also had the same experience with MSM. I used it on Japanese clover in my back yard with success in a broadcast spray, but for crabgrass it was a spot treatment and burned the surrounding centipede. Nutsedge started popping up shortly after...


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

@bbroderi Did you spot spray or blanket spray as well?

Thanks


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

@Brodgers88 When you had your Centipede yard...I would say that you maxed it out.

Any pointers for me to help with my in laws centipede yard?

I know you don't want to put out more than 1 pound of N per season.

What about Iron?

And reel mowing? I have a California Trimmer what HOC in your experience worked best for the Centipede?

And lastly....do you do a Spring Scalp like you do with Bermuda or Zoysia for Centipede?

Thanks!!!


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## Brodgers88 (Feb 26, 2017)

@ENC_Lawn Around 1lb of nitrogen for the year is usually sufficient on centipede. If the soil is sandy than you could get closer to 2lb of N but I wouldn't do any more than that. If the grass is dense I would stick to the 1 lb of N for the season regardless of soil and split this into two applications, late spring and mid summer. Centipede usually doesn't need phosphorus unless the soil is severely defecient. High phosphorus levels can cause the centipede to yellow. For potassium you would want it going down around a 1:1 ratio to nitrogen maybe even more potassium than nitrogen at a 1:2 ratio. Watch out for fertilizer containing muriate of potash. MOP has higher levels of chloride compared to sulfate of potash (sop) and centipede can be sensitive to the chloride. Micronutrients are great for this grass, especially iron and manganese. Make sure the pH is on the lower end around 5.5

Mowing with the reel is definitely best for the grass as you know but a rotary cut on centipede isn't bad either. It can tolerate a hoc of 3/4" pretty well but I feel this grass does best right around 1"-1.5". For spring scalping you want to make sure you're cutting just above the stolons so you definitely don't want to do a hard scalp down to dirt like bermuda/zoysia.

One more thing to be careful with on centipede is using pre-emergent herbicides. The root pruning affect from these can cause problems on this type of grass.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Brodgers88 said:


> @ENC_Lawn Around 1lb of nitrogen for the year is usually sufficient on centipede. If the soil is sandy than you could get closer to 2lb of N but I wouldn't do any more than that. If the grass is dense I would stick to the 1 lb of N for the season regardless of soil and split this into two applications, late spring and mid summer. Centipede usually doesn't need phosphorus unless the soil is severely defecient. High phosphorus levels can cause the centipede to yellow. For potassium you would want it going down around a 1:1 ratio to nitrogen maybe even more potassium than nitrogen at a 1:2 ratio. Watch out for fertilizer containing muriate of potash. MOP has higher levels of chloride compared to sulfate of potash (sop) and centipede can be sensitive to the chloride. Micronutrients are great for this grass, especially iron and manganese. Make sure the pH is on the lower end around 5.5
> 
> Mowing with the reel is definitely best for the grass as you know but a rotary cut on centipede isn't bad either. It can tolerate a hoc of 3/4" pretty well but I feel this grass does best right around 1"-1.5". For spring scalping you want to make sure you're cutting just above the stolons so you definitely don't want to do a hard scalp down to dirt like bermuda/zoysia.
> 
> One more thing to be careful with on centipede is using pre-emergent herbicides. The root pruning affect from these can cause problems on this type of grass.


Thank you very much for the detailed response!!! :thumbup:


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

@Brodgers88 I always found a 0.5N/1000 of 10-10-10 after my first after full transition Mow was necessary, if I'd skip a year I'd start seeing purple/red tips towards the end of the season. I wouldn't fertilize again until 4th of July weekend, then I'd hit .5N of 15-0-15.

Completely agree on the preemergent, Atrazine and Simazine along with any cheap generic brodleaf 3 way were the only chemicals I kept "in stock" when I was only Centipede. Atrazine and SImazine heavy in the fall and then again in the spring, 3 way as needed.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Brodgers88 said:


> Sethoxydim herbicide would be an option to work on selectively removing the bermuda from centipede. I'm sure it would take multiple applications and doing everything in favor of the centipede. Another option would be pylex herbicide but that one gets expensive.


Exactly. This is 100% correct. Although centipede can be difficult to work with and you don't get the dark green color (which is okay) , it can handle both . . .

1) Quinclorac - to get rid of Torpedo

and . . .

2) Sethoxydim - to get rid of Bermuda, will put a little hurting on Torpedo as well.

and as a bonus . . .

3) Ethofumesate/Atrazine combo - i think in a year or two (thanks to this forum), the correct combination will be nailed down. It pretty much is already, and @CenlaLowell has done a lot of work in this area. And @Greendoc is always giving invaluable advice. Its really promising to see. My hope would be to one day see this sold in a big box store, or at least on doyourown.com as a labeled product. Can always dream i suppose.

- Please let me know if im wrong on the ethofumesate for centipede. My train of thought is that if St. Augustine can handle it, then Centipede can definitely handle it.

- As a side note im considering a switch to Centipede (cheaper) or incorporating it with my Floratam. But Zoysia may be more ideal. Just has a slower growth rate from what i understand. I've never seen torpedo begin to take over an entire street like its doing in my neighborhood. Its getting bad. Some peoples entire front lawns have double the amount of Torpedo from last year and their lawn is literally 50% torpedo. Definitely spreading throughout the U.S.. Sigh . . .


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

@kb02gt Torpedo is rampant on my street. It's coming out of the drainage ditches. Being able to use Quinclorac one of the many reasons I switch over to zoysia from SA/Centipede in the front.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> @kb02gt Torpedo is rampant on my street. It's coming out of the drainage ditches. Being able to use Quinclorac one of the many reasons I switch over to zoysia from SA/Centipede in the front.


Congrats on the switch for sure. Wish i had made the switch already. Id probably forget and need to keep reminding myself its okay to spray this Quinclorac on my lawn, lol. If its coming out of the drainage ditches, man that would be hard since that stuff thrives with water. Ive got it mostly in the back and now on the left side of my house, but only a few. It and bermuda are trying to make attempts at invading my front yard, but so far am holding the line, for now anyway. Crazy thing though is that 2/3 weeks ago i noticed it pop up in the middle of the backyard out of nowhere. I also have an area where i am attempting solarization on the torpedo. Am currently building up the courage to ask my neighbors if i can irradicate all the bermuda & torpedo on the side of their house. Am also planning on using a 2ft deep liner as an underground fence. Would rather a 3 footer but cannot find one. Curious what method you went with to remove it all from your front yard before laying the zoysia? Also how are you liking the Zoysia overall?


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

@kb02gt I'm really liking the zoysia so far. I killed everything off with Glyphosate a couple of times and then used a sod cutter to remove the old turf. If I had to do it again I would cut the old turf out first and then do the rounds of glyphosate. It was messy and the cut sod just fell apart because it was all dead. I already have torpedo grass peaking out of the ditch but I will wait until next season to start hitting it hard. I'm still doing some spot treatments of Quinclorac on some SA that I missed along the property line. My neighbor and I are taking turns hitting it. He does a really nice job on his Empire which is good. You're right about the torpedo just running underground until it finds a weak spot and then popping out. With torpedo, the best defense is a good offense.


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## Brodgers88 (Feb 26, 2017)

@Amoo316 I could definitely see that 10-10-10 being a beneficial application considering the amount of phosphorus applied. I think problems could arise mostly in a high phosphorus situation of maybe applying too much over time. This season I've only fertilized my centipede with with a 16-0-0 in May and most recently 15-0-15 a few weeks ago for a total of 1.75lbsN/M. I did have some red tips showing on the leaf before my 15-0-15 application and now all is good so I suspect my situation was a potassium deficiency perhaps. I have not soil tested my back yard so I don't know what the nutrient levels or pH are like but it is 100% sand. Here's a couple pictures.


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## kb02gt (Aug 23, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> @kb02gt I'm really liking the zoysia so far. I killed everything off with Glyphosate a couple of times and then used a sod cutter to remove the old turf. If I had to do it again I would cut the old turf out first and then do the rounds of glyphosate. It was messy and the cut sod just fell apart because it was all dead. I already have torpedo grass peaking out of the ditch but I will wait until next season to start hitting it hard. I'm still doing some spot treatments of Quinclorac on some SA that I missed along the property line. My neighbor and I are taking turns hitting it. He does a really nice job on his Empire which is good. You're right about the torpedo just running underground until it finds a weak spot and then popping out. With torpedo, the best defense is a good offense.


Agree 100% we need to stay on the offense against Torpedo. Everytime I see it, its frustrating, yet amazes me at the same time on how resilient it is. I think to myself, why couldn't st.aug be this resilient, lol. As a side not the quinclorac does seem to work better when covered by clear plastic. Whether it's a water jug or something else. Before I remove my st. aug I'm planning to run some experiments before hand just to see what happens.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

@Brodgers88 What is your mow frequency on your centipede vs your latitude 36?


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Brodgers88 said:


> @Amoo316 I could definitely see that 10-10-10 being a beneficial application considering the amount of phosphorus applied. I think problems could arise mostly in a high phosphorus situation of maybe applying too much over time. This season I've only fertilized my centipede with with a 16-0-0 in May and most recently 15-0-15 a few weeks ago for a total of 1.75lbsN/M. I did have some red tips showing on the leaf before my 15-0-15 application and now all is good so I suspect my situation was a potassium deficiency perhaps. I have not soil tested my back yard so I don't know what the nutrient levels or pH are like but it is 100% sand. Here's a couple pictures.


I'm actually really intrigued that yours resolved without a phosphorus addition. We're going to try to keep the 1527ft2 in the "pool yard" centipede and transition everything else over to Bermuda. I'm going to have to do some research and see what I can find in university studies.

The other thing that was more of a "mental note" type of thing was when I applied the balanced fertilizer once a year I got a deeper green color response. I don't know if that was specific to the TifBlair I had in the front or not. I'm also not sure if that was just part of it's "waking up" color. It would last about a month after that, and I'd slowly drift back to that more lime green color centipede is well known for the rest of the year. None of that was scientific or anything like that, just something I noted while doing it. I may split half the pool area next year and do 1 on balance and 1 no Phos and see if there's any other noted differences.


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## Brodgers88 (Feb 26, 2017)

ENC_Lawn said:


> @Brodgers88 What is your mow frequency on your centipede vs your latitude 36?


@ENC_Lawn Centipede is mowed once every 7 days, probably could go 10 days if rainfall isn't excessive. Hoc on my centipede is 2.25". I will say the centipede looks happier mowed a little higher than when I was reel mowing when I had it out front a few years ago. It can tolerate the lower cut but it stresses the plant.


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## Brodgers88 (Feb 26, 2017)

Amoo316 said:


> Brodgers88 said:
> 
> 
> > @Amoo316 I could definitely see that 10-10-10 being a beneficial application considering the amount of phosphorus applied. I think problems could arise mostly in a high phosphorus situation of maybe applying too much over time. This season I've only fertilized my centipede with with a 16-0-0 in May and most recently 15-0-15 a few weeks ago for a total of 1.75lbsN/M. I did have some red tips showing on the leaf before my 15-0-15 application and now all is good so I suspect my situation was a potassium deficiency perhaps. I have not soil tested my back yard so I don't know what the nutrient levels or pH are like but it is 100% sand. Here's a couple pictures.
> ...


@Amoo316 interested to see what you find and results from splitting apps on that turf area.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

Brodgers88 said:


> @Amoo316 interested to see what you find and results from splitting apps on that turf area.


Are you doing any spray apps or is everything granular? I don't do any spray apps.


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## Brodgers88 (Feb 26, 2017)

@Amoo316 right now everything is granular on the centipede.


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