# Too early to talk about Spring plans?



## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

Another week or two and all the leaves will be on the ground. I am outside each morning looking at the lawn each day and am overall happy going from zoysia, Bermuda, and goosegrass to bare dirt this summer to now TTTF and KBG. However, the lawn only being a little over 2 months old still has lots of improvement still to make. The KBG is there but I'd like to encourage it to really take over. I started with an 80/20 mix of TTTF to KBG and have lots of both grass type remaining (almost enough for the renovation over again).

I did the whole N spoon feeding this Fall and it seemed to help a lot compared to dumping the N last year on a different renovation. But talking about this spring - should I consider feeding the new lawn this spring to finish off that needed growth and development before Summer? I'm on the Arkansas-MO line, so definitely considered to be in the transition zone.

The University of Arkansas recommends for cool season grass no fertilization after May 1 - just one a month in March and April. I'm working on my arsenal of fungicides to use at a preventative rate this next year going into summer since brown patch was a problem. I'm also considering a PGR to start using, although I am going to be cutting at 3.5-4"

My goal is to encourage rooting as much as possible and thicken the canopy and a few 4-6" bare spots as much as possible before summer.

I see some hit their new lawns with N and some don't. Just looking for opinions and I know a lot of you here have some sound advice. This past spring I used Milorganite and cracked corn on a new TTTF lawn and it worked great up until I kept pushing growth through May and had some fungus hit. The non synthetics seeded to do fine, but I wonder if there's a better option for a newly renovated turf it's first spring.

Thanks!


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

Sea kelp would be a good option to encourage rooting in the spring (and fall for that matter). Lots of ways to do that: RGS, Kelp4Less, Essential Plus 1-0-1, are a few that I've heard of, but it's a non-exhaustive list.

I'm not sure about the _best_ way to do spring nitrogen, especially where you'll have a hot summer, but here's what I'm doing in Southern New Jersey on my reno (hot but NOT Arkansas). I'm going to apply about 1 lb N / M when the grass wakes up. Most will come from a non-soluble source (screemin green), with just a little coming from fast release urea. Then I'm passing on nitrogen until fall.

FWIW 80/20 of TTTF/KBG means that at least half the plants in your lawn are TTTF when you convert from % by weight to % by seed count. Maybe more than half depending on successful establishment rates of the slower developing KBG when competing with the faster TTTF. You've got a primarily TTTF lawn with a bit of KBG for its spreadability. You can overseed those sports to keep the TTTF percentage high, or see how much the KBG spreads. 4-6" might not be too big to fill in between TTTF tillering and KBG spreading, but I don't know for sure. Good luck!


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@samjonester I am definitely going to be getting a 2.5 gallon jug of RGS for this next year - I went through 1 gallon this past year by using it along with lots of other sprayable products. Hitting the lawn with 1 lb early does sound better than running too close to the line with Summer. I did request a sample of Screamin' Green. Maybe I'll make a mix of that, some Milo, and some urea for a combined total of 1 lb and thrower down.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

I guess it depends when your Spring starts, and how enthusiastic you are...

I know I need to plant some sod trays and do/have done some sprinkler upgrades, but The grass isn't fully green here until sometime in April usually. The earliest I've ever mowed was the end of Feb. last year, but that was a weird year because it warmed up enough to thaw out the ground a few weeks early, and I was trying to get a headstart getting residual Winter leaves mulched up, etc. Normally mid to late March, or early April is when I mow for the first time to clean up the yard. Lagging areas don't fully green up until May.

@drenglish, that Screamin' Green is awesome. The only thing it's missing is methylene urea...it has everything else you could ever want, all in one. I use it in the Fall, but imagine it'd be great for Spring, too. I just go more toward fully organic in the Spring. You'll be wanting to buy some after trying it out. I put mine down on October 1st (a week and a half late), and the grass is still nice and green.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

All great ideas above. As far as the recommendations from the University of Arkansas, read closely to determine if that is for established turfgrass. You're lawn won't be considered mature until 1+ years after seeding (I lean towards closer to 2 yes, IMHO). It is young and needs the food.

I would resume spoonfeeding in the spring until it's too warm to apply urea. Also, you could taper off the dosage as the temperatures increase to reduce the chances of fertilizer burn and/or fungus. In addition, you could transition from urea to the organics you mentioned.

Alfalfa pellets is another option. Alfalfa naturally contains a growth stimulant called triacontanol.


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## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

Similar to @Green's suggestion of starting sod trays, I did one 1020 tray of 18 4"x4" pots of TTTF and KBG mix with my reno this fall. They transplanted and took off extremely well in several spots that were either hard to start seed in or damaged from glyphosate over-painting. I plan to start several more trays indoors in mid-March, again in either 4" pots or in red Solo cups for greater root depth for spring repairs and reno fill-ins to avoid the summer heat death of normal spring seeding. I think it was having the full root system intact that made the plugs take off so well, far better than purchased rolls of traditional cut sod.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

Thank you for the ideas everyone. I can already see my office with a few fold out tables and tons of KBG and tttf plugs growing under some LED shop lights  my 24 2x2" plugs are doing great this Fall and I'll be able to use them in various places, but I know starting a small sod farm indoors will be a lot of fun.

@Chris LI are we talking 85 F outside for being too warm for urea? Thanks for pointing that out about new VS old lawns. I haven't used alfalfa pellets, but will strongly consider it for that trait this season.

@Green good to hear about screamin green. I'm excited to use it and also for Carbon-X when it comes out.

Anyone have opinions about micro nutrients like MicroGreen from N-EXT and use on new lawns in the spring/summer?


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Yes. 85 F is too high. 75 F might be pushing it. I would switch over to organics around 70 F to be on the safe side, unless you immediately water it in thoroughly. I may be being a little cautious, and I like my organics a lot. Hopefully, others who have tried it at 75+ F will chime in.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Chris LI said:


> I may be being a little cautious, and I like my organics a lot. Hopefully, others who have tried it at 75+ F will chime in.


Not me, but I agree about Organics. I may have mentioned it above or in another thread yesterday, but I'm essentially 100% organic in Spring, except for special cases. This past year, I used a combination of 5-4-0 Milo (which had even more slow release than the newer one) and Protene 8-0-4, which was a lot of sunflower hull ash, and other sustainable, slow-release stuff. I also used spoon-feeding with synthetics through early July on areas that were overseeded the previous Fall.


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## Druet (May 7, 2018)

drenglish said:


> Anyone have opinions about micro nutrients like MicroGreen from N-EXT and use on new lawns in the spring/summer?


I have only used MicroGreene this fall but it seems like a solid product and I believe there's RGS mixed with it already. I was using Lesco chelated micromix and used it up this summer. I liked that product as well. A solid dose of micros is a great summer app without negative effects and for me a reason to throw something down in between spring and fall. I believe micros could be integrated with a fungicide app to get a two for one app but I would advise checking your labels. As always, a good soil test is a great resource to determine deficiencies and thus rates of product to use for corrective action.

I always use a full rate of micros on my Reno's 
and overseeding along with starter fertilizer. I've done this method a few years now and like the results. The picture below is my backyard I renovated in late Sept. using this program along with spoon feeding once it was established. Still going strong in mid November :thumbup:


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@Druet looks good! I'm due for another soil test here soon to see where things are stacking up before throwing down. Hey, you've got grass like I do - Fescue with some zoysia


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## Wlodyd (Aug 27, 2018)

It's definitely not too early for spring plans, I've already got my plan loosely laid out for 2019. It'll like go out the window by May 1st as I watch the weather, but it's fun to think about what I'm going to do next season.

I plan on putting down some starter fertilizer when soil temps get to about 55*, typically right around April 1 around Central Ohio. I'll keep the N low early but want to help wake up the lawn and get some P and K in the ground to encourage rooting and overall health (I'm still P deficient and K was borderline low last year). Then I'll throw down a 1lb of N of synthetic along with Milo around mid-May. That'll really be it until the fall, I'll mostly be trying to keep Dollar Spot and Brown Patch at bay and throwing RGS down about monthly. I may throw down Milo again on July 4th, to help get some nutrients in the lawn as the growing season in August kicks off, then start putting down the throttle!


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

I'm going to give you a bit of different perspective on bluegrass, as most bluegrass lawn care practices are based on weather patterns further up north.

Bluegrass is very likely to keep growing through the winter in your area, while the fescue will pause. Bluegrass is far more cold tolerant than fescue. With day temps in the 50s and nights above freezing, the soil stays warm and it keeps chugging along, and it actually seems happy at those temps. Lots of tillering, spreading and root development going on right now in my lawn. Of course with your lawn being new, it may be a little slower, but as it matures you should get accustomed to the possibility you may have to mow every two weeks through winter.

Bluegrass root development is at its best when soil temperature is between 50 and 65. The mean soil temperature at 3" here in Greensboro typically stays above 50 all the way into January, when it dips briefly only to start to rise again in March. Mind you, even if it dips in the mid 40s, you will still get root growth, just not at the max rate. I'm assuming very similar conditions in your area. So for you, the growing seasons is skewed from what folks up north experience - their optimal conditions for KBG start about April, your optimal conditions for root development are now through April.

Bottom line, you also should be thinking about what you need to do right now in addition to what you need to do next spring. For a new lawn, my suggestion would be spoon feeding ammonium sulfate through January. Phosphorus and potassium wouldn't hurt either. If it stays relatively warm and the grass keeps growing, then keep going through January and February. Late March would be your last app, but you can follow up with small amounts of spoon fed N (say 0.3 lbs N/month) through summer to maintain color and quality. I would also highly suggest you start preventive fungicide mid-April and continue to apply every 2 weeks through October.

While all this is going on, your fescue will happily snooze until spring.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

+1


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## Druet (May 7, 2018)

drenglish said:


> @Druet looks good! I'm due for another soil test here soon to see where things are stacking up before throwing down. Hey, you've got grass like I do - Fescue with some zoysia


Love that zoysia. Can't bring myself to kill it off. Here in the St. Louis area it is dormant now until May, but it's like green carpet June to October. Also, that zoysia is very low input in that area- fertilizer, herbicides, fungicides, insecticides. Unfortunately I have too many big trees that shade the yard so zoysia isn't feasible everywhere.
My major focus is pre emergent (prodamine)early March or late Feb. Depends on when soil temps approach 45. Then late spring before the 80s hit I'll apply a cocktail of 4Speed XT (broadleaf) and possibly a second app of pre m. Thinking split apps I've been reading about. Late spring may also necessitate a preventative fungicide app as well. Again that would be temp and humidy dependent. Need to find timing and products for grub/cutworm control. Had an outbreak this season.


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## drenglish (Jun 22, 2018)

@j4c11 Man that's a whole different train of thought than what I have been used to, but it makes sense - and now I'm going to go out and start checking soil temps. Would there be any potential problem for the TTTF if it's being hit with nitrogen and it's trying to rest through winter - does it just ignore the input? I wouldn't be forcing growth that the wrong time?

Also, about the light spoon feeding of 0.3 lb N/M after March and through Summer, is that geared towards the lawn only because it is a new reno and needs to food or would a KBG TTTF mix benefit from the light feedings in later years during the off season?

I really appreciate the advice, sounds like I need to get out there and find out what my grass and soil is doing once the snow that we just got melts back.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

drenglish said:


> @j4c11 Man that's a whole different train of thought than what I have been used to, but it makes sense - and now I'm going to go out and start checking soil temps. Would there be any potential problem for the TTTF if it's being hit with nitrogen and it's trying to rest through winter - does it just ignore the input? I wouldn't be forcing growth that the wrong time?


No, the fescue just kind of taps out for the winter and ignores the N. There's studies somewhere but from what I remember nutrient uptake slows to a crawl due to low transpiration rate during periods of cold weather.



drenglish said:


> Also, about the light spoon feeding of 0.3 lb N/M after March and through Summer, is that geared towards the lawn only because it is a new reno and needs to food or would a KBG TTTF mix benefit from the light feedings in later years during the off season?


It's really geared towards maintaining quality/color, but having a trickle of N also helps the plant cope with stress better. Regardless of lawn age. You don't want to dump a bunch of N and trigger a flush of growth in the middle of summer- that would be disastrous, but if you can provide the grass with a small amount that helps with internal processes(e.g. photosynthesis). Organics would work well for this purpose, and there's also slow release synthetic fertilizer. Or, you could even spoon feed ammonium sulfate or urea. Key is, small amount, trickle of N.



drenglish said:


> I really appreciate the advice, sounds like I need to get out there and find out what my grass and soil is doing once the snow that we just got melts back.


My wife is still looking for the meat thermometer :lol:


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