# Spring is Coming... Game of Growns!



## Lawnmower_Man (Oct 1, 2017)

Hello,

Spring is Coming, and the Weed Walkers are near!

I am a Lawncare Newbie (from Toronto Canada) and was looking for some advice since I tilled my entire lawn and I put new sod (Kentucky Bluegrass) back in October.

Spring is coming, and after reading the Cool Season Lawn Forum sticky thread (which is great)...I wanted to see if anyone can advise on my plan below.

1) Early-APRIL: Aerate lawn (is this necessary after last Fall's tilling?)
2) Early-APRIL: apply Corn Gluten Meal (I assume April would be a good timeline estimate to apply Weed Prevent)
3) Late-MAY: Overseed after six weeks? (I've read that this is pointless as young grass won't survive the summer heat)
4) Late-MAY: Compost? (I guess this doesn't hurt)
5) SEPT: Overseed (once things cool a bit)

This is a simplified timeline above, and I was wondering if it makes sense, and I had some questions about each step below.

Note: We only have Corn Gluten Meal (CGM) up here in Toronto as a weed preventer, and I plan on using Scotts Weed Prevent soon.

#1: Since I tilled my lawn before sodding in October, I'm not sure if I need to aerate. Thoughts?
#2: The GDD Tracker (www.gddtracker.net) shows my 14301 Zip Code area in the "Close" range. Does this mean I have to wait to apply the Weed Prevent when my area reaches the "Target" green area? 
#3: I was thinking of seeding (six weeks after applying the Weed Prevent) but I've read here that it's only useful in the Fall.
#4: I assume compost would be useful sometime in May or June?
#5: Overseed in AUG or SEP (when the heat isn't so bad)?

Any feedback is much appreciated!


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Lawnmower_Man said:


> Hello,
> 
> Spring is Coming, and the Weed Walkers are near!
> 
> ...


1. I wouldn't aerate. Not after just sodding last year.

2. Not really a fan of the Scotts corn gluten meal. If you want a true pre e order dithiopyr or prodiamine from seedworldusa.com. They will ship to Canada. Best to wait until as soon as the forsythia blooms to apply. I think sometimes the GDD tracker can be a bit early especially if your going by a area that might get a bit warmer a bit quicker than the GTA area.

3. I wouldn't overseed KBG in the spring. With proper fertilizing *** won't usually need much seeding. If you do have to seed KBG it's better to seed it in the late summer.

4. I guess you could put down compost. I don't think it would hurt. Maybe someone else will have an opinion on this.

5. If you do have to seed, try for mid August. KBG takes a long time to germinate and grow. If you wait till September it might be a bit late. Try to use actual KBG and not just the Scotts mixes which contain very little KBG.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

1. You don't need to aerate.

2. I have read that corn gluten meal doesn't work as a germination barrier, but the birds and rodents will thank you. As Snowbob mentioned, better options are available online for us restricted Ontarians.

3/4/5. If your sod was laid level and watered properly last year, you probably don't need to do much of anything besides water/fert/weed control. You might just want to level out any spots that shifted with the frost.

There is one good seed mix available retail up here, and that's the Scott's Sunny Bluegrass mix. It is 75% KBG and 25% "turf type" perennial rye. Don't use any of their other mixes. They have varying amounts of annual junk grass. I bought my KBG seed mix from the local sod farm.

Welcome!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

To add to snowbob, CGM is not a PreM. Further reading here from Washington State University: https://s3.wp.wsu.edu/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/corn-gluten.pdf

You want to apply PreM before the "Late" phase from GDD. GDD tracker is just a model/prediction tool like the weather forecast. Forsythia blooms are a great indicator for your local area.

KBG doesnt need overseed like TTTF. Proper fertilization will make it spread and cover any holes. I moved an irrigation head last September. KBG spreaded so much that I cant find the head this year (HOC at ~45mm). I know it is within a 2ft area. Once I turn on the zone, I will find it.


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## Lawnmower_Man (Oct 1, 2017)

Excellent. Thanks for the input.

RE: knowing EXACTLY when to apply PreEM...

Do I apply this once I visually see that yellow Forsythia blooming in my area?
Or is it too late at this point, and I should have applied it a week or two sooner?

My neighbors had (what I believe) is Forsythia sprouting near and around their shrubs and tree trunks last summer. I assume that this will begin to show up again soon.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Lawnmower_Man said:


> Excellent. Thanks for the input.
> 
> RE: knowing EXACTLY when to apply PreEM...
> 
> ...


I wait till mine blooms, even if GDD tracker shows differently. They are the one of the first things too bloom in spring, hard to miss their bright yellow flowers during this time of year.

https://www.google.com/search?q=forsythia&oq=forsythia&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l2j69i59j0l2.5279j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

Lawnmower_Man said:


> RE: knowing EXACTLY when to apply PreEM...


Forget GDDs (none of the maps extend into Canada), and forget Forsythias, and do what I do...

Watch "what did you do with your lawn today" for Snowbob posts, and then do it the next day. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

Joking aside - I will be using one of the central Michigan GDD data locations as my "best guess", and follow the timing accordingly.


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## Lawnmower_Man (Oct 1, 2017)

Thanks.

Another quick question...

What does everyone use as fertilizer?
and when should I be applying it?

I would prefer to use something as natural as possible (I guess the Corn Gluten would be a decent fertilizer choice in this case).
But how often and when do people apply fertilizer?


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Sinclair said:


> Lawnmower_Man said:
> 
> 
> > RE: knowing EXACTLY when to apply PreEM...
> ...


Lol. Ok, no pressure for me to get it right then.  :lol:


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Lawnmower_Man said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Another quick question...
> 
> ...


There can be lots of variables as to what is the best fertilizer for your needs. If you are planning to get more serious into your lawn, one of the best things you can start with is a soil test from a lab. I've only ever used Logans lab in the USA but there are local labs that will test for you. Don't use one of those ph testing kits from your local garden centre. They can be inaccurate.

If you're looking for natural fertilizers I have a source for alfalfa pellets and cracked corn. I'm going to be using this this year along with synthetic fertilizers like urea. I also might be able to get soybean meal but I have to call to make sure it's the right thing.

Not sure what you're fertilizer schedule was last fall but in general if you gave the grass the proper nutrients then you probably won't need to fertilize until after the spring growth flush is done.


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Lawnmower_Man said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Another quick question...
> 
> ...


CGM is expensive stateside and I am surrounded by cornfields. I'm aggressive with soybean meal, alfalfa pellets and cracked corn after the spring green up is done. 10 to 20 lbs/k is what I target for any of them.

I'll use urea in the fall and slowly back off organics around then as microbes start to slow down.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

Skip aeration.

Apply a real pre-emergent.

CGM is an OM addition, of almost no pre-emergence value.

You can add almost any Organic matter to your lawn in any reasonable amount that the lawn can handle at any time your environment will process it (not during a Canadian winter lol!)

To define a fertilization plan beyond Nitrogen, you need a quality test done by a professional lab, put in the context of what your goals / budget / back will handle.

OM additions can raise nutrient levels, but it takes significantly longer than synthetics. You'll have to weigh that into your goals and objectives.


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## Lawnmower_Man (Oct 1, 2017)

Thanks.

Natural fertilizers like Alfalfa pellets and cracked corn sounds like a good idea. From what I am hearing, I guess it doesn't really matter when exactly you apply it to the soil.

It's a new property for me, so I've never applied fertilizer or any pre-emergent to this lot before. It was full of weeds, so I doubt the last person did anything. So, we just tilled it last October and put new Kentucky Blue grass and that is it.

Is there such a thing as a natural Pre-Emergent?

I've got an infant kid who loves crawling on grass and putting the hands in the mouth. Would prefer to go as natural as possible.


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## jimmy (Jul 25, 2017)

Lawnmower_Man said:


> Is there such a thing as a natural Pre-Emergent?
> 
> I've got an infant kid who loves crawling on grass and putting the hands in the mouth. Would prefer to go as natural as possible.


Once prodiamine is watered in sufficiently and is dried, it should be safe. It sits at the soil level.

I have 3 young kids (9mo, 3, and 6), so to be safe...I make them stay off the grass for at least a few days after applying. For pre-emergent, it is typically too cold for my baby to be out anyway.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

@Lawnmower_Man here is the link to the place that sells the alfalfa and cracked corn. www.pricelessproducts.com
Look for the corn plus for the cracked corn. They also have one called corn gluten.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Make sure it is cracked corn (food for chickens) and not just corn. Regular corn could germinate.

Corn gluten is different than cracked corn and corn meal (used to make corn bread). The CGM has a higher protein rate (don't over apply).

One key element of using organics is the soil temp, microbial activity and size of the product. All of these affect how fast it break down and get converted to nitrogen the lawn could use. Normally there is a delayed effect very dependant on your lawn. From experience, avoid too much going into summer/drought.

NPK for some organic products: https://aroundtheyard.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51:npk-of-organic-materials&catid=11&Itemid=118

I think I should write an article around organic fertilizer.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

g-man said:


> KBG doesnt need overseed like TTTF. Proper fertilization will make it spread and cover any holes. I moved an irrigation head last September. KBG spreaded so much that I cant find the head this year (HOC at ~45mm). I know it is within a 2ft area. Once I turn on the zone, I will find it.


So I finally found the head. Here is a picture. It is in the center. Do you see it ? It feels like playing Where is Waldo?



There was dirt around this head in September. I made a 5in hole for the head and back filled it with soil.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

g-man said:


> Make sure it is cracked corn (food for chickens) and not just corn. Regular corn could germinate.


Oh god i cant stop laughing at the thought of someone coming here and posting what all these weeds are in their yard, only to find out they now own a plot of corn.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@FuzzeWuzze 
Search in ATY. Someone had this issue before.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > Make sure it is cracked corn (food for chickens) and not just corn. Regular corn could germinate.
> ...


"The fortuitous farmer"


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