# how to smooth my giant not-flat lawn?



## jmmayer (8 mo ago)

Hey all,

This is my first post and I've done my best to read most of the previous posts about drag mats, but haven't quite found the answer to my question.

I have a really big lawn - 90k sq ft - so anything I do to it basically has to be motorized. Currently I mow with a 52" Gravely ZTX, which I've put a tow hitch on. Couldn't afford a stand-behind. But the mowing is pretty unpleasant because the lawn is so bumpy and I'm on my butt not my knees, so this year I'm embarking on a course of top-dressing.

I'm curious what you all would recommend for a lawn that is bumpy but isn't (and will never be) flat. It's a classic rolling Vermont lawn. Eventually I want to make all the rolls longer so that the 52" mower deck doesn't miss spots, but mostly right now I want a smoother lawn. A drag mat seems like the obvious answer, but most of them (including the excellent design from@Pete1313) seem to be rigid along the front edge, and I'm doubtful of how well that will work on a lawn that isn't flat.

Thoughts? Ideas?

thank you
Jacon


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Welcome to TLF!!

I think you are in a predicament because you have long grass it's going to be very hard to do a mass leveling of your lawn. If it was me and depending on your soil, I would rent an asphalt roller and go to town on your lawn. It may not get it perfectly smooth but I'm sure it will be better than before. You could always aerate afterwards if you are worried about compaction. You would want the soil moist but not over saturated as that may cause it to get stuck or create a mud pit. To me that would be the most cost effective way to fix some of your issues. You could also start doing regular aerations on the lawn also and in time it would smooth itself out but that would take years.


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## jmmayer (8 mo ago)

Thanks!

Hmm, that's an interesting idea. The grass can tolerate that kind of compaction?

Top-dressing will require too much dirt? I see why aerating repeatedly would take forever, but I'm unclear on why top-dressing won't work.

Also, just curious, what do you mean by "long grass?" It's long by some standards for sure, but I can usually get it down to 2.75" when it's growing well and we're getting enough rain.

Thanks again,
Jacon


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## JML (Jul 26, 2021)

The challenge with drag mats is that if you have an existing lawn and aren't putting down new topsoil/sand, there isn't enough pressure to cut into the soil. I would look into a drag harrow. You can flip the spikes down and drag it on the high points and it will almost work like a tiller. Flip it over and pull that loose material into the lower spots.


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## jmmayer (8 mo ago)

Oh, sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I am planning to get about eight yards of topsoil, which I think might cover ~1/5 of the lawn, and I'm trying to figure out the best motorized way to drag it in, with the caveat that anything rigid won't work too well because of the rolling nature of the lawn.


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## JML (Jul 26, 2021)

Got it. I think you'll find that 8 yards won't come close to being enough for the 18,000sqft goal. Double it. I don't see the concern with the mat being on the rigid side. Think of it like a giant landscape rake. Still look at the drag harrow. If you think that's too aggressive. 6ft of chain link fence works on a budget too.


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## KoopHawk (May 28, 2019)

Mightyquinn said:


> Welcome to TLF!!
> 
> I think you are in a predicament because you have long grass it's going to be very hard to do a mass leveling of your lawn. If it was me and depending on your soil, I would rent an asphalt roller and go to town on your lawn. It may not get it perfectly smooth but I'm sure it will be better than before. You could always aerate afterwards if you are worried about compaction. You would want the soil moist but not over saturated as that may cause it to get stuck or create a mud pit. To me that would be the most cost effective way to fix some of your issues. You could also start doing regular aerations on the lawn also and in time it would smooth itself out but that would take years.


My dad has a similar predicament with about 35k sq ft. I was thinking if you aerated then watered then renting a roller the aeration holes would give the soil room to compact/flatten. Another round of aeration afterwards just incase there is too much compaction. Would a typical lawn roller filled with water be enough to smooth out the lawn or would you need something more heavy duty?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Trying to drag dirt or sand into 2-3" high grass isn't going to go that easy and the top dressing isn't going to go where you want it. Maybe it can be done but I know the shorter the grass is the easier it is to level it.

As for a water filled roller, I haven't ever seen them do too much in terms of smoothing out existing grass.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

After a good soaking rain rent a one ton asphalt roller and go to town. Will take a few years but it sure will help.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

It states you have a mix of grass type, do you know what's in the mix?

The leveling you are planning really only works on grass that you can mow low.
The alternative, if you have taller grass, is level and reseed the parts that needed a lot of dirt, as if it was a reno.


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## jmmayer (8 mo ago)

Thanks everyone! This is very helpful. I know it can be annoying to respond to total n00bs, so I appreciate it.

@San I don't know for sure, but I think perennial ryegrass and maybe a little bluegrass. Probably some annual garbage in there too, plus some obvious patches of tall fescue. Plenty of weeds too, which I've been working on. Can you explain why the leveling only works if you can mow low? It makes sense to me that it would be harder to spread on taller on grass, but if that can be overcome with mechanical power... shouldn't it work the same?

@JerseyGreens interesting. "Take a few years" meaning do it once or twice a year after hard rains? Not even sure it's possible to rent an asphalt roller around here ... not much asphalt.

@Mightyquinn this is sort of in line with what @San was saying. Where will it go if I try it on 2-3" grass?

@KoopHawk thanks. Sounds like we're building a consensus that I should press out the unevenness with weight instead of building up with soil. The aeration before/after makes sense if that's the strategy.

@JML copy, thanks. That's of course the big downside is that I need such outrageous quantities of everything ... the lawn was this big when we bought the house. *sigh* (also, it's nice: pros and cons)

Seems like I should compress my lawn not build it up. I'm gonna look into this. Thanks everyone!


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## jmmayer (8 mo ago)

to give you an idea


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

Probably more extreme than you are contemplating, but I would think a couple passes with a harley rake and a reseed in the fall would get you where you want to be.


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

Pete just tried leveling fescue… https://youtu.be/RL0fxWLwVfY


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

The problem with trying to level a lawn with longer grass is the sand/dirt gets trapped in the grass itself in areas you don't need or want it, instead of down to the soul/ground where you need it.

Your grass basically works like a spring or cushion sitting on top of your soil. The more cushion or spring you have, the harder it becomes to actually level. Chances of you creating new problems because of all the dirt that gets stuck where you don't need it increase exponentially.

Considering you have KBG and Rye, you really can cut it really really low and it will recover if timed right. That would be the route I would take if you are set on bringing in sand (please use sand, you'll thank us later).


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## Colinwjholding (Apr 6, 2020)

I top dress 1.5 acres almost yearly. My HOC is lower but grass types are the same. First time i would use a good turf blend inCase you need to overseed any low areas. Just lower your hoc the weeks leading up to it.

Also i would rent a tractor and use that to move the material. I use a kubota bx25 then hook a homemade drag to my mower. (Its a big modified pallet)

It's easier then you think. You probably need about 30-40 yards of material.

Here is my setup.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I would still rent an asphalt roller and go to town on that area. I think it's the least amount of effort for the lowest price and may get you what you are looking for.


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## jmmayer (8 mo ago)

Update: I found a place that's a reasonable distance that rents both an asphalt roller and a skid steer with a harley rake. Heavy equipment or anything that might be used for farming is much easier to rent in the far north of Vermont than lawn care stuff like aerators (*sigh*).

So! @Mightyquinn that's a seductive option. Certainly seems simplest. The roller they have weights 12,000lbs. The grass can take that?

@Colinwjholding this is great to know. Seems like a very similar situation, and my Gravely could certainly tow a similar rig, but sadly we don't have a Kubota yet so the first spread would be a lot of labor. I'm also worried a rigid drag like that won't work so well on rolling terrain ... but good to hear of someone with similar experience, and I can certainly cobble together a drag.

@Amoo316 Yes, I can get it below 2 inches. It scalps the hell out of it but it does recover. Except for a few patches, most of the lawn stays green all winter (if you dig through the snow). Does that offer any clues as to what grasses I have? Re: sand - seems clear that it would be firmer and smoother, but I'm worried that it will necessitate future fertilization? I don't want to trap myself into yearly fertilizing, the lawn is too big, and the soil around here is so rich...

@gm560 that does seem extreme. It would require reseeding, right? No way to just spread dirt with a harley rake without reseeding? I watched a couple videos and it seems fairly destructive... the problem with a full reseeding is you have to get the forecast right. If it doesn't rain.... well, I can't water the whole lawn. Not even close.

thanks all, learning a lot
Jacon


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

12,000 lbs!!! Yeah that is way too big. The ones I have seen weigh between 1,000-4,000 lbs.

Something like THIS


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## jmmayer (8 mo ago)

@Mightyquinn ok yeah it seemed like too much. :lol:

Like I said, around here you can get big machinery, for your 300 acre farm… small machinery not so much.


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## Automate (Aug 14, 2020)

@jmmayer You may want to use the same principle as a triplex mower. Get 2 or 3 narrower drag mats and pull them at the same time. Narrower mats should be able to adjust better to the contours of your property. May need to pull them with a bar to separate them out.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

jmmayer said:


> @Amoo316 Yes, I can get it below 2 inches. It scalps the hell out of it but it does recover. Except for a few patches, most of the lawn stays green all winter (if you dig through the snow). Does that offer any clues as to what grasses I have? Re: sand - seems clear that it would be firmer and smoother, but I'm worried that it will necessitate future fertilization? I don't want to trap myself into yearly fertilizing, the lawn is too big, and the soil around here is so rich...


It can be a rabbit hole, so don't get carried away, but look up root cycling. You have an established lawn and plenty of that going on already. You're going to put more than enough nutrients back in the ground just from mowing then you probably realize.

Sand levels easier and better than anything else. It provides better drainage then anything else. It's also going to be generally easier to work with, which you'll soon discover if you choose to go with it or without it.

I'm with MQ on the Roller. If you decide to level though, sand. There's either a few hundred people on this forum who do it annually or bi-annualy all doing it the hard way with sand, or we've all collectively learned enough to know it's the best solution for that kind of job. YMMV.

We have an 88-page and counting thread in the Warm Season Lawns forum all about leveling Bermuda. I realize you're not working specifically with Bermuda, but you're working with grasses people either mix with or use during the winter time and can take down to reel mower heights. The information is most all relevant to you.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=148


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## jmmayer (8 mo ago)

@Amoo316 Nothing worse than someone who asks experts for advice and then ignores it! Sand it is.

I could rent a water roller - about 950lbs filled - but I have no idea if that'll do it. Can anyone advise on how to tell?

Thanks for link - mine definitely cannot be taken down that low, and we're about as cold as it gets here, but I'll peruse that thread anyway to learn some more.

@Automate I love that idea. I think I might try exactly that, with a homemade wider one and a steel 3' one behind. Creative solution for exactly my problem, thanks!


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## sangheili (Jul 5, 2020)

In addition to the advice given, I would soil test and get at least a soil texture done. You may find out some information that pushes you in the different reno or top dress or new top soil directions.

I rented a Harley rake and it worked fantastic - but it was hard to use as a leveling tool. The one I rented had very wonky front tires and the skidsteer controls weren't very finesable. I was using it on new soil too so I was fighting the soil compaction too. I found it very hard to leave a finish pass that was consistent from one pass to the next, but I was also trying to leave a fluffed deep bed (2-3" tilling), not just scratching the surface. It was pretty damn nice for redoing my gravel driveway though. If you do rent one, I found that the best way to finish pass was going backwards and floating the drum between those wheels and your skid steer tracks, using the attachment angle to control depth of cut. Make sure the guide wheel mounts are rigid and the tires are in good shape (one of mine had to be replaced when it ripped right off the rim). Possibly a wider unit would help to, I was using the compact dingo size so not a lot of width when doing final passes.


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## Satchamo (8 mo ago)

I don't have quite the amount you do 28k but I too have some ponds and rolling and it's been driving me nuts. But I have a pretty good looking yard right now that I hate to destroy. I also have underground lines buried all over gods green earth.

My idea was to either pay someone to grade it or to get a Harley rake. I wasn't sure how much a Harley rake could do tho…


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## jmmayer (8 mo ago)

Well, glad I'm not the only person with this problem. Same here - it's looking pretty good. Would be a tough decision (and very expensive) to go for a reset.


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