# High PH Soil Test, Elemental Sulfur?



## krusej23 (May 8, 2018)

I just received my soil tests back from Spectrum and all 3 areas came back with either 7.4 or 7.5 ph. I had put 1.6lbs/1000 of elemental sulfur down last week to get started on lowering that. Any other suggestions outside of Ammonium Sulfate and Iron, I read on this forum that the Ammonium Sulfate doesn't help much with lowering PH.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Here is some background info on lowering pH with sulfur. Does Elemental Sulfur Lower Soil pH?. They did 220lb/ksqft and see the improvement?

Everything looks good with your soil. They don't test sulfur which is one of the MLSN elements.


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## krusej23 (May 8, 2018)

g-man said:


> Here is some background info on lowering pH with sulfur. Does Elemental Sulfur Lower Soil pH?. They did 220lb/ksqft and see the improvement?
> 
> Everything looks good with your soil. They don't test sulfur which is one of the MLSN elements.


That is an interesting and disheartening read. It shows that they recommend 10lbs of sulfur per 1000sq ft.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

They recommend 10lb/ksqft (twice a year I think) of elemental sulfur. That sulfur is to lower the pH via the form of sulfuric acid, but it might be useless when the 220lb/ksqft tilled did not help. Greendoc recommends an approach of frequent citric acid that you could try (I haven't yet).

Now the sulfur I was referring to is different. It is root available sulfur (sulfate sulfur) and Spectrum did not test for it. If low, AS should take care of it.

More info on sulfate-sulfur here.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

The issue with surface applied sulfur is it has to be warm enough long enough to lower pH lokg term. Most cool weather climates arent warm enough long enough.

Plus pH isn't really a goal in and of itself. You have excess calcium that is probably pushing that pH. The pH is only 7.5. You can have a great cool season lawn at that pH. You wont overcome that calcium, fight where you can win. Spend your time applying milorganite or spraying fas for color.


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## krusej23 (May 8, 2018)

HoosierLawnGnome said:


> The issue with surface applied sulfur is it has to be warm enough long enough to lower pH lokg term. Most cool weather climates arent warm enough long enough.
> 
> Plus pH isn't really a goal in and of itself. You have excess calcium that is probably pushing that pH. The pH is only 7.5. You can have a great cool season lawn at that pH. You wont overcome that calcium, fight where you can win. Spend your time applying milorganite or spraying fas for color.


Why will I not overcome the high calcium? I don't mind milorganite but I'd prefer not to use it.


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## krusej23 (May 8, 2018)

g-man said:


> They recommend 10lb/ksqft (twice a year I think) of elemental sulfur. That sulfur is to lower the pH via the form of sulfuric acid, but it might be useless when the 220lb/ksqft tilled did not help. Greendoc recommends an approach of frequent citric acid that you could try (I haven't yet).
> 
> Now the sulfur I was referring to is different. It is root available sulfur (sulfate sulfur) and Spectrum did not test for it. If low, AS should take care of it.
> 
> More info on sulfate-sulfur here.


I sprayed some citric acid down last night in a test area of the backyard to see if I don't mess anything up with it. It was just a cap full per 1000 so maybe a little less than an ounce.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

g-man said:


> Here is some background info on lowering pH with sulfur. Does Elemental Sulfur Lower Soil pH?. They did 220lb/ksqft and see the improvement?
> 
> Everything looks good with your soil. They don't test sulfur which is one of the MLSN elements.


@g-man, would it be a good suggestion to test for free calcium carbonate? I think @Ridgerunner linked to this DIY test before using vinegar. Free Lime Vinegar Test

In @krusej23 case a 4388ppm Ca could be an indicator of free lime. I have tried the vinegar test 3x and have yet to get any bubbles, last year my PH was 7.4, with Ca pushing 2000ppm. Thru previous inputs or soil sampling differences the PH this year came back at 7.1 and am trying some elemental sulfur with AMS. Elemental sulfur is relatively cheap(under $20 for 50lbs). It might change the PH, or at least lower the PH in the rhizosphere short term.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would just skip the test and throw down the elemental sulfur.


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## krusej23 (May 8, 2018)

I have pit down a little over 1lb per 1000 of elemental sulfur already. I have more ready to go when our temps pick up a little more. I have been watching a lot of AgPhD videos to learn about ph and the way they handle it in the ag community. It's a slow process but I'm planning on being here a long time so I'll put the work in to lower it.

I've read that some nutrients like calcium could just be stuck because the soil I have doesn't have great drainage. I sprayed some air8 the other night to open up some space in the ground and we have gotten some rain this week so maybe that will be true a little.

I also have yet to test my water coming out of the hose for ph to see if that is high. I did a lot of watering last year since I did a reno in part of the yard.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

krusej23 said:


> HoosierLawnGnome said:
> 
> 
> > The issue with surface applied sulfur is it has to be warm enough long enough to lower pH lokg term. Most cool weather climates arent warm enough long enough.
> ...


Theres too much Ca..... kind of like you might desalinate the ocean one cup at a time....


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## Ahab1997 (Jun 30, 2018)

You sure you're not from Austin (my hometown)?

My Ca saturation was 84.5% with a pH of 7.6, very similar to yours. I've already put down 10lb/k of elemental sulfur to help out some, but I don't plan to retest the soil for a few years.

Everything I've read says that you can grow great turf in high pH soil, so don't pull your hair out trying to correct it all at once.


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## krusej23 (May 8, 2018)

I'm not too worried about it but just slowly working to get the correct levels on everything which I know is a yearly thing. The ph changing will be a 5 year plan.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

It's the carbonate content in the soil, not the calcium level that affects pH. High Ca levels are the result (or a "symptom", if one insists) of high soil calcium carbonate content.


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## DiabeticKripple (Apr 14, 2019)

g-man said:


> Here is some background info on lowering pH with sulfur. Does Elemental Sulfur Lower Soil pH?. They did 220lb/ksqft and see the improvement?
> 
> Everything looks good with your soil. They don't test sulfur which is one of the MLSN elements.


Just looked up my Waypoint results, a thread will follow when I get my PDF.

My PH is 7.9

In this example, it looks like the ES did in fact help lower the PH. They did a one time app of ES and saw a pretty good reduction in PH which then slowly increased over the years.

One would interpret this as if there was repeated apps, the PH could be lowered even more, then apps dialed back to maintain a good PH.

Am I wrong in my thinking?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

220lb of elemental sulfur per 1000ksqft that they rototill into the soil. The max safe rate to an established lawn is 5lb/ksqft year in the northern climates.


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## krusej23 (May 8, 2018)

g-man said:


> 220lb of elemental sulfur per 1000ksqft that they rototill into the soil. The max safe rate to an established lawn is 5lb/ksqft year in the northern climates.


This is just nit-picking but I was told to not put down more than 5lbs/ksqft per application but I can go up to 10lbs per year. They say 7lbs if you have sandy soil but being in Iowa and having a CEC of 17.9 I am good with the 10lbs. This is an interesting watch for lowering pH for agricultural purposes.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@krusej23 yes and no. It is possible to do 5lb/M every 6 months if and only if the soil microbes are warm enough to break it down. In South Texas, 2 apps of 5lb/M are possible. In Iowa, there is only one period that it could break it down (summer), so two apps of 5lb will be like one of 10lb.

Lastly, the point above is that even at 10lb/M per year, you are 210lb/M short (or 21 more years at 10lb/yr).


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## DiabeticKripple (Apr 14, 2019)

so what can be done to reduce PH then? citric acid?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@DiabeticKripple what I do is not sweat it. There is no need to reduce it. Adjust your practices to it (eg. FAS). Like I said above, you can have a great lawn with a high pH.


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## bigmks (May 22, 2018)

https://norganics.com/index-2/calculation-pages/calculate-your-sulfur-application/


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

krusej23 said:


>


That was a good watch. Thanks for sharing!



bigmks said:


> https://norganics.com/index-2/calculation-pages/calculate-your-sulfur-application/


Neat calculator!


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## krusej23 (May 8, 2018)

bigmks said:


> https://norganics.com/index-2/calculation-pages/calculate-your-sulfur-application/


That has some handy calculators.


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## bigmks (May 22, 2018)

Fo sure! That's what the site is about.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

HoosierLawnGnome said:


> The issue with surface applied sulfur is it has to be warm enough long enough to lower pH lokg term. Most cool weather climates arent warm enough long enough.
> 
> Plus pH isn't really a goal in and of itself. You have excess calcium that is probably pushing that pH. The pH is only 7.5. You can have a great cool season lawn at that pH. You wont overcome that calcium, fight where you can win. Spend your time applying milorganite or spraying fas for color.


I have to read up on this from my days keeping a saltwater reef aquarium but a quick read reveals that high calcium lowers alkalinity. Magnesium, strontium, and alkalinity played important parts for balancing and maintaining high calcium levels for optimum coral formation and I was always tinkering with that balance (like tinkering with a lawn).

Whole kits are sold with these elements to keep everything in balance. Gosh, should get back into that situation I don't mess up my lawn with my constant messing around with it. 

Murph


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

krusej23 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > 220lb of elemental sulfur per 1000ksqft that they rototill into the soil. The max safe rate to an established lawn is 5lb/ksqft year in the northern climates.
> ...


While we're picking nits...  A good place to start is to know what the general pH of soil is naturally in your area.

In New England, we have a lot of granite which tends to make our soil acidic (5.5-6.5). New Hampshire is "The Granite State." I am on the border with NH in Massachusetts with a neutral 7.0 soil. My soil will drop over time. Some yearly apps of fast-acting (but not long-lasting) citric acid over ~5 years will bring me into maybe 6.5 where nature takes over and I start to worry about bringing pH up again or just maintaining that level.

A thing to remember is that we are testing to a depth of 2-3 inches. When 5-10 pounds per 1000 SF is added, you might be increasing soil height somewhat which means your test is closer to a source of low pH sulfur. Also, as you puncture the soil for the test, you will inevitably drag low pH elemental sulfur into your sample and skew the results.

I like to tinker with my lawn (because it is a hobby, after all) so I will try it out and see what happens. Like others have said, I am playing around the margins here and am enjoying a NoMix lawn (with _poa annua/triv_ mixed in) that is the envy of this city neighborhood on a busy state highway with only a solid cultural program and proper feeding and weed prevention. I haven't even begun to worry about lawn disease and pest control so far... 

Murph


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

High calcium does not make soil more acidic...


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

HoosierLawnGnome said:


> High calcium does not make soil more acidic...


You may be right... Here is my "quick read" source...

https://m.liveaquaria.com/article/96/?aid=96

Also check into reef/saltwater alkalinity, calcium, magnesium testing/balance... These are always added to maintain optimum calcium availability in saltwater.

Now... @Ridgerunner had some thoughts about calcium and calcium carbonate which I am unable to address (I will bet dollars to doughnuts that he can! ) but would like to hear more about...

Murph


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Just more reading because this thread started me thinking about my old saltwater tank...

https://www.lawn-care-academy.com/agri-cal.html

At first glance, it looks like calcium (and sodium) is one of the base (or alkaline - high pH) elements but is generally unavailable to plants until the microbes get to work on it. At that point, pH begins to rise by some amount.

What I remember from my fish days, magnesium and salt lowered the calcium and was not good for corals... or something like that. Everything had to be in a balance for max calcium for corals. And I remember testing water for calcium and pH levels to make sure I was not overdoing it or something.

I dunno... it was an interesting balancing act is all I can remember from 15 or so years ago. I do remember targeting calcium for corals and the rest was only important as long as calcium was high. Oh, and saltiness of water, of course! 

I had a nice tank! THAT I remember...


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

OP is not growing turf in a saltwater fish tank.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

HoosierLawnGnome said:


> OP is not growing turf in a saltwater fish tank.


@HoosierLawnGnome, true that!

I took that tank to the n-th level with protein skimmer, ozone injectors, ultraviolet light sterilizers, water current and day/night simulators... never QUITE happy... always experimenting... like lawn hobbyists here. I do remember that calcium/magnesium/pH/salt balance being so difficult to understand and maintain that I thought I'd share my experience.

No offense intended. My apologies.

I was tinkering at the margins then and... like so many others are now... tinkering with lawns and soil. I could run a perfectly fine bare bones salt setup just as my grandmother's-style NoMix lawn is the most amazing I have ever seen it.

Getting into the rough with soil pH is marginal stuff unless you find yourself at the extremes. Knowing what's at play at the chemical end is just icing on the cake.

Again, my apologies,
Murph


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