# lawn looks like warzone after prodiamine application



## Snaclerio11 (Jun 17, 2020)

Hello all!

On september 13 i applied .183oz per 1000sq' to my lawn in hopes of controlling crabgrass next year as well as killing off all the POA in my grass. The following weekend I did an application of fertilizer (cx diy). A full two weeks later the crab grass is dieing off but what is striking my attention is that my grass is predominately brown and bent over. In some areas the turf is coming up in clumps. Also i have a pretty big patch of rust in one spot.

Are all of these symptoms normal or is my turf damaged?

i had so many weeds this year and so many variations in turf type that I'm starting to think i might need to reno.

Im all ears thank you for any help in advanced


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## CarolinaCuttin (Sep 6, 2019)

Is there any chance you misapplied the prodiamine? The rate you used is a very modest one, I shouldn't have done any damage. However, the fact that everything went south after you applied has me wondering.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

What product did you apply? Granular?

Prodiamine applied now won't kill crabgrass this year or next. It will also not kill POA annua. It only prevents POA annua seeds from growing.

Prodiamine applied in the spring will prevent crabgrass in the summer.

Also, prodiamine does not help with broadleaf weeds at all.


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## Snaclerio11 (Jun 17, 2020)

Thank you for your response. I thought I was accurate with my measurements I did go on the conservative side to the best of my knowledge. It does seem like all the very thin grass blades are the ones taking the fall I have some *** looking very nice it very small clusters. My lawn wasn't in the best shape prior to my application it was brown but not as brown. I'm just as curious too being that their are some areas that look not effected.



CarolinaCuttin said:


> Is there any chance you misapplied the prodiamine? The rate you used is a very modest one, I shouldn't have done any damage. However, the fact that everything went south after you applied has me wondering.


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## Snaclerio11 (Jun 17, 2020)

Thank you for your response. I applied prodiamine 65wdg. With the utmost respect what do you think is going on? I understand prodiamines uses better now thank you.

This was happening prior to my fertilizer application. Now it just seems like all the thin blade grass is bent and dieing off.



g-man said:


> What product did you apply? Granular?
> 
> Prodiamine applied now won't kill crabgrass this year or next. It will also not kill POA annua. It only prevents POA annua seeds from growing.
> 
> ...


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

did you water in the prodiamine?


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## Snaclerio11 (Jun 17, 2020)

Yes right after I applied.



ABC123 said:


> did you water in the prodiamine?


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## elgrow (Mar 30, 2020)

I've got a couple questions. Did you fertilize with or around the time you put the prodiamine down?

The lawn was already brown/stressed before you made these applications?

What spreader do you have? In one of your other posts it almost looks like streaking from a certain spreader brand.


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## themishmosh (Jul 3, 2020)

I'd check for grubs


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## Snaclerio11 (Jun 17, 2020)

I applied one week after my prodiamine app.

Yes the lawn was somewhat stressed. But it doesn't look any thing less then somewhat stressed unless it's the peak of the spring.

The spreader is a sta-green. The lawn looked the same prior to the fertilizer app. I thought it would green up but I haven't seen much signs of it doing so.



elgrow said:


> I've got a couple questions. Did you fertilize with or around the time you put the prodiamine down?
> 
> The lawn was already brown/stressed before you made these applications?
> 
> What spreader do you have? In one of your other posts it almost looks like streaking from a certain spreader brand.


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## Snaclerio11 (Jun 17, 2020)

80sq' just yielded this much dead grass. Just from raking with a landscape rake.


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## elgrow (Mar 30, 2020)

Snaclerio11 said:


> I applied one week after my prodiamine app.
> 
> Yes the lawn was somewhat stressed. But it doesn't look any thing less then somewhat stressed unless it's the peak of the spring.
> 
> ...


Not sure if your model has hollow wheels or not, but if it does it could be over applying product by stripping. In one of your other posts there are two long white streaks that kind of make me think this might be the case. Now I wouldn't think you would get stripping from prodiamine, but you never know.

I will default to others on here on what's going on, but I am thinking the lawn was already stressed and the fertilizer just pushed the already stressed grass over the edge.


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## Snaclerio11 (Jun 17, 2020)

Yes the model I have has hollow wheels. The prodiamine I applied via my backpack sprayer but I see your point in saying the fertilizer might have been over applied which stressed the lawn.

Going forward I have a bio stimulant pack to put down which I was going to do today. Should I do so and purchase a new spreader ? 
Thank you for your knowledge.

Not sure if your model has hollow wheels or not, but if it does it could be over applying product by stripping. In one of your other posts there are two long white streaks that kind of make me think this might be the case. Now I wouldn't think you would get stripping from prodiamine, but you never know.

I will default to others on here on what's going on, but I am thinking the lawn was already stressed and the fertilizer just pushed the already stressed grass over the edge.
[/quote]


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

themishmosh said:


> I'd check for grubs


Kinda my thoughts as well. Almost looks like some of that damage (grass pulling up) could have been caused by a skunk looking for grubs or worms. Always hard to tell from a couple pics though


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## Snaclerio11 (Jun 17, 2020)

So I went back outside to look at that area again and when I ran the rake over that area the clumps that we're coming up were around the dying crabgrass. The entire root ball and leaders pulled right out of the ground in that area. I will look for grubs a little better though.



ksturfguy said:


> themishmosh said:
> 
> 
> > I'd check for grubs
> ...


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

It is very hard to kill grass with Prodiamine. Even at more than double rate, you wouldn't see widespread die off. The primary impact would be root pruning. That can indirectly cause problems, and, combined with lack of water, it could cause increased drought injury. How often and how much are you watering?

That being said, I would look at other potential cuases for the dye off. 
- Do you have irrigation? Do you have a malfunctioning head? Are the problem areas getting even coverage? Is the soil in the problem areas dry?
- Did you over apply fertilizer? The Carbon-X has a lot of slow release so should be quite safe.
- Did you apply any other chemicals like Herbicides?
- Did you check for grubs?
- Is this die off of undesirable grass/weeds from drought stress/herbicides? Poa Annua? Poa Triv?

With the recent Prodiamine application, you are a bit stuck and don't have the option to easily overseed. I would recommend a bit more water than typical to encourage spreading. That is easy to do.

If you want to be more aggressive in encouraging recovery, even though you applied Nitrogen with the Carbon-X, you could consider spoon feeding Ammonium Sulfate or Urea at 0.2 lbs of Nitrogen/1000 square feet every 2 weeks.

Lastly, disease is a possibility. Usually diseases are not a major issue in the fall. I also don't see any clear signs of disease, but it is worth checking. I would look for brown spots in the middle of the grass leaves, rust colored dust on the blades, and other signs of disease. If you see it, post up some pictures and maybe we can help with identification.


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## RVAGuy (Jul 27, 2020)

The product does control broadleaf weeds, despite what others say, just not as a post-emergent. Reading the label, I'm wondering if this stuff kills Poa A, and that's what you have going on. Is it possible everything that died off could have been Poa A? Also the lawn was stressed when applied, so that was a boo-boo.


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## BrainBailey (Nov 20, 2019)

Have you ever used glypho or any other herbicide in your sprayer? This is reminding me of Ryan Knorr's video where he had lawn die off from tank residuals of glypho, despite very extensive flushing and cleaning.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

RVAGuy said:


> The product does control broadleaf weeds, despite what others say, just not as a post-emergent. Reading the label, I'm wondering if this stuff kills Poa A, and that's what you have going on. Is it possible everything that died off could have been Poa A? Also the lawn was stressed when applied, so that was a boo-boo.


What broadleaf weeds the label lists?


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## Snaclerio11 (Jun 17, 2020)

Thank you for the detailed response.

I am watering 3 times a week at 15 minutes per zone. The heads provide sufficient coverage of the lawn. In the area where the street sign is in the pictures their was a large infestation of crab grass. Crab grass is dieing off in my area now and I believe this is contributing to the clumping in that area.

I don't believe I over applied it has been brought to my attention that I could be stripping with my spreader. (Which spreader should I purchase I have a very good backpack sprayer should I go all liquid ?)

I do have a lot ! I mean a lot of poa annua which is why I took the prodiamine route instead of overseeding. If you look at the pictures closely the only dieing off grass is the very skinny blades.

ABC123 advised me to look at the active fungus and wouldn't you know brown spot and rust and roaring in my area right now. The on lot thing that confuses me is that the lawns next to me show no signs of rust or brown spot. ABC also sent me a link to nitro blast with urea which I'm considering. My grass always has brown in it. So I'm thinking their might be a disease.

What do you think my next move should be.



bernstem said:


> It is very hard to kill grass with Prodiamine. Even at more than double rate, you wouldn't see widespread die off. The primary impact would be root pruning. That can indirectly cause problems, and, combined with lack of water, it could cause increased drought injury. How often and how much are you watering?
> 
> That being said, I would look at other potential cuases for the dye off.
> - Do you have irrigation? Do you have a malfunctioning head? Are the problem areas getting even coverage? Is the soil in the problem areas dry?
> ...


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## RVAGuy (Jul 27, 2020)

https://www.domyown.com/msds/PRODIAMINE_65WDG_Label.pdf



It's kind of sneaky how they mixed the broadleafs in with the grassy weeds, but they are in there none-the-less.


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## Snaclerio11 (Jun 17, 2020)

Nope it was brand new and I flushed it threw twice. Didn't look like it was repacked.



BrainBailey said:


> Have you ever used glypho or any other herbicide in your sprayer? This is reminding me of Ryan Knorr's video where he had lawn die off from tank residuals of glypho, despite very extensive flushing and cleaning.


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## Snaclerio11 (Jun 17, 2020)

To me it looks like that but guys with way more experience are saying that's it's not And I can't go with my presumption over someone whose been threw this already.



RVAGuy said:


> The product does control broadleaf weeds, despite what others say, just not as a post-emergent. Reading the label, I'm wondering if this stuff kills Poa A, and that's what you have going on. Is it possible everything that died off could have been Poa A? Also the lawn was stressed when applied, so that was a boo-boo.


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## RVAGuy (Jul 27, 2020)

Snaclerio11 said:


> To me it looks like that but guys with way more experience are saying that's it's not


Scientists/PHDs/Chemical Engineers > Forums & User Experiences

But to each his own.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

RVAGuy said:


> https://www.domyown.com/msds/PRODIAMINE_65WDG_Label.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> It's kind of sneaky how they mixed the broadleafs in with the grassy weeds, but they are in there none-the-less.


None of these are broadleaf (eg. Dandelions). Signalgrass is a grass.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Snaclerio11 I don't see crabgrass in your images.


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## Snaclerio11 (Jun 17, 2020)




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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Yeah I'm not really seeing crabgrass either. Most of the damaged areas or close up of leave blades just look like fescue. Not saying you don't or didn't have crabgrass but the prodiamine wouldn't have killed it, just the cooler temps would. Definitely something else going on.


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## RVAGuy (Jul 27, 2020)

g-man said:


> RVAGuy said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.domyown.com/msds/PRODIAMINE_65WDG_Label.pdf
> ...


@g-man It is better to be humble than dogmatic. It's OK to be wrong (we're all wrong sometimes, myself included), but persisting with misinformation is irresponsible. I've highlighted broadleaf weeds I'm familiar with and am backed up by Penn State University. https://plantscience.psu.edu/research/centers/turf/extension/plant-id/broadleaf


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## Snaclerio11 (Jun 17, 2020)




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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

The bottom 4 pictures are too small for me to see anything.

If you have brown patch, Azoxystrobin would be your first line treatment. Propiconazole will work, but not as well. Propiconazole, and to a lesser degree Azoxystrobin, is generally available in box stores, though many are no longer restocking so supplies may be low.

Crabgrass dying off may explain some of the bare areas. In the future, consider a fall overseed with Tenacity. Tenacity is safe at seeding and will reduce Poa Annua until the new grass is mature enough for Prodiamine.

15 minutes of water three times per week may not be enough in the heat, though it may be enough now that it has cooled off. You really need to know how much water is being applied in 15 minutes. With my system, 15 minutes is about .15 inches. Three times per week is only .45 inches which is far short of the 1-1.5 inches you would need in the summer. You also really need to do an irrigation audit to confirm that coverage is even across the zones. There is no way to determine uniformity of irrigation without checking with catch cans (tuna cans work well also) across the zone.


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## behemyth (Jun 8, 2019)

@bernstem I agree. I have to run my irrigation a minimum of 25 mins during the hotter weather, and that is a zone that has multiple heads over lapping. The other zones run 45 mins. There is almost no way 15 mins is giving this lawn enough water to deal with the heat (unless you have a lot of head overlap).


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

OK, I wasn't looking at the right pictures. Definitely looks like a disease. Brown Patch is a reasonable diagnosis. There are also a lot of grassy weeds. Watering too little, too often is a set up for diseases. I would look at irrigation practices first here and consider a Fungicide.


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## Snaclerio11 (Jun 17, 2020)

Thank you very much for your attention to my problem. So I just put my irrigation system back online three weeks ago so the watering to little was because I didn't have my system up and running. Moving forward I will look at the proper irrigation methods and calibrate my heads. I also will apply a fungicide. Can I apply my bio stimulant pack today or should I hold off ? Thank you again.



bernstem said:


> OK, I wasn't looking at the right pictures. Definitely looks like a disease. Brown Patch is a reasonable diagnosis. There are also a lot of grassy weeds. Watering too little, too often is a set up for diseases. I would look at irrigation practices first here and consider a Fungicide.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Biostimulant pack is fine to apply at any time.


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