# Saying Hello! KBG/PRG questions??s



## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

Thanks for accepting me to the site! I've spent way to many hours watching the LCN and Grassdaddy on Youtube(hence how I found this site, Thanks!)

Anyways a bit about me(my yard). We moved into a new house in May here in Iowa, and I did get some fert down, but then we went into a drought. I didn't water as I should have, as my last yard went into dormancy and out fairly well so I didn't think about it, or did I care as much. Fast forward to the present, I now want to try to bring my new lawn to the next level. I've read a lot here, and have a good grasp of what to do, I now just need to execute. In May I put down a round of Milorganite, in June I put down some regular lawn food from Menards. Then last week I put down a dose of lawn food with half dose of Milorganite. Kinda throwing darts as I was learning, but know moving forward I'm going to stick to Milorganite and prob not mix until my fall winterizer.

I thought the lawn was dead, honestly did, but It's starting to show some life and I hope to help increase that. My plans are as follows:
-hoping to install a rain bird 32eti in my main section of the front yard to help water and see how I like it(may add more if it works well, can't afford a true system at the moment)
-want to overseed(more on that to come)
-I am dethatching the whole yard the old school way, a rake
-at seed down use starter fert and 5lbs Milorganite per k
-6 weeks later middle of October a full 15lbs of Milo per k
-then fall winterizer(looking for advice here, sometime in November)

So with all that said my questions are as follows:
-I'm assuming winterizer goes down mid November, but not sure what products are good
-And now the biggie, overseeding! Most the yard is KBG and I'm thinking of going straight PRG for the seed. I've read enough here to understand that I dont know how much of my yard is going to come back and fill in, and that KBG will probably choke out the new KBG before it germinates. Now this is not what Earl May told me, but I trust you all here more than them. So what types of PRG does everyone recommend, and at what rate do I want to apply it. It is my understanding you don't want the percentage of PRG in the stand to be to high but I could be wrong. I should probably mention the yard is pretty much full sun all the time.

I did shampoo the yard 3 weeks ago and intend on continuing to do so. At this time I am not planning on aerating as I'm afraid it will bring to many weeds seeds to the surface.

Again thanks for letting me in and I appreciate any insight I can get. I'm new to this next level of yard care but want to learn from those who IMO seem to know!!!


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## Fronta1 (Jul 11, 2017)

Hi Eric welcome to the forum. My only tip is that when you go to overseed gradually cut the lawn as short as possible over the course of about two weeks. This will give your seeds a better chance and lower risk of fungus because you will be watering so much. As for winterizer you want a fast release form of nitrogen, such as granular urea, after the grass stops growing but before the ground freezes. Good luck.


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

It was so dormate that I've been cutting it at 2.25" the last 3 mows, should I go lower than that?


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## Fronta1 (Jul 11, 2017)

Yes, go as low as you can, but gradually, and not until your ready to overseed.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Welcome to the forum.

A few opinions:
- A real irigation system is not that expensive compare to the rainbird you are thinking about. sprinklerwarehouse has good prices if you plan to install yourself. www.irrigationtutorial.com has a ton of information. It will give you a headache the first time reading the tutorial.
-if your lawn is kbg, then you could start with just doing fertilizer this year. You will be amazed how fast it spreads with nitrogen. Here are some instructions http://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=753


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

I started reading that tutorial last night, and it kinda blew my mind! I've been told that sprinkler systems run between 3-5k around here and this one only cost me $130. I could just run hoses and buy the $15 rainbird sprinkler spikes and use those up front I guess, I bought some for the back and was kind of shocked how much better they work then the impact I have. Darn it, thought I had my mind made up, and now I'm second guessing it. Using just milo on the grass every 3/4 weeks would be a lot easier/cheaper/ and require a lot less water. Hmmmmmm


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

Does mowing KBG at around 2-2.5 inches this time of year help encourage growth as well?


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

As long as your not scalping high areas and not taking off more than 1/3rd of the blade I wouldn't worry.


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

Sorry have some weird questions tonight, in the areas that have been hit the worst by the drought is their any benefit to putting down starter fert along with the nitrogen to help stimulate the roots?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Eric said:


> I started reading that tutorial last night, and it kinda blew my mind! I've been told that sprinkler systems run between 3-5k around here and this one only cost me $130. I could just run hoses and buy the $15 rainbird sprinkler spikes and use those up front I guess, I bought some for the back and was kind of shocked how much better they work then the impact I have. Darn it, thought I had my mind made up, and now I'm second guessing it. Using just milo on the grass every 3/4 weeks would be a lot easier/cheaper/ and require a lot less water. Hmmmmmm


Systems installed by a company could run into those prices. System that you install are far less. You could also spread the cost over time by doing sections (front one year, then back). You could also bury the pipes and heads but then have a hose connection to your water bib, thus saving a bit of the cost of the valve and controller. The rainbird system you looked at will also need to buried, but it uses a small pipe ID. It might seem like you are saving, but ends up being more in the long term.

You could also do spikes with hoses, but moving the hoses to mow gets old really quick. Whatever you do, please read the section about head to head coverage and follow it. You will thanks me later.


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

That's the one part that made sense to me, lol! I drew a diagram last night of my entire yard to scale and started drawing circles on it making sure the heads did exactly that! This is why I decided to join instead of just read, I want to do it right so I may just use sprinklers this fall, spend the lovely winter reading and researching and getting my ducks in a row for next year. Like I said I started reading last night and kinda got overwhelmed. And I know I'm on a time schedule to pick my plan, after all if I was going to seed I have 2 weeks, but if I don't it's not necessary to make any rash decisions. $60 on some extra spike sprinklers is nothing compared to the cussing and swearing and unhappiness of installing something just to install it. I truly appreciate you challenging my thoughts to think this out fully


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Eric said:


> Sorry have some weird questions tonight, in the areas that have been hit the worst by the drought is their any benefit to putting down starter fert along with the nitrogen to help stimulate the roots?


I'm avoiding information overload. One of the first activities to do to improve your lawn is a soil test by a lab. Your local county or university would do these. That would tell you if there are any deficiencies in the soil and how to correct them.

Starter fertilizer is one that has a higher ratio of phosphorus to nitrogen. The phosphorus helps root development if there is a deficiency in the soil. Adding it without knowing if you need it is not environmentally friendly.


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

No worries, I was looking forward that up a couple nights ago, plan on sending a sample to ISU, after all it's 2 miles from my house, makes it easy.


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

No worries, I was looking that up a couple nights ago, plan on sending a sample to ISU, after all it's 2 miles from my house, makes it easy.


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

The top 2 are my front yard and biggest area of concern middle 2 are the side yard and last 3 or 4 would be the back. The sides and the back are definitely showing signs of life. I need honest opinions if you all think the front will snap out of it or if it need some more seed put down.


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

I would suggest overseeding. It is hard to know for sure and its better to overseed than not and regret it next year.


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

So if I decide to overseed the front, which I'm leaning towards, would the SS9000 blend be a good choice for the middle of nowhere Iowa,lol? I don't just want to go to a box store and all earl May has is what they call Hawkeye. They don't have any blended rye, only rye blended other various KBGs. I'm kinda scrambling here as I've learned so much over the last week, but now feel I'm behind the 8 ball!!


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## Roosterchest (Aug 3, 2017)

I have 10lbs of SS9000 for a reno project I'm working on. I think it's a good blend. There are pic on ATY of someone who did a reno with this blend last year---he was in Washington state I believe.

I think the summer Iowa sun will challenge the rye, but it will look nice for 10 out of 12 months.


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

Roosterchest said:


> I have 10lbs of SS9000 for a reno project I'm working on. I think it's a good blend. There are pic on ATY of someone who did a reno with this blend last year---he was in Washington state I believe.
> 
> I think the summer Iowa sun will challenge the rye, but it will look nice for 10 out of 12 months.


The heat/sun is what scares me a bit. However I just want to make sure I have a some what decent front yard next year, and have no clue how much of the KBG is going to fill in this fall. Worse case it doesn't hold well, then next summer I can plan for a complete kill off and renonthe front yard. Too many decisions


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

The above 2 mixes are available at our local EarlMay, the other option I've stumbled across is a perennial rye called SnapBack. I ran across it at a local(mom/pop) farm store and the owner said his son killed off his entire yard and did anmonostand of this rye and has been really happy with it. I want to get the seed down hopefully tomorrow night as the temps look favorable highs in the mid 70s and lows at night in the mid to upper 50s.

Given these 3 options, which would you choose?

Also want to mention the EarlMay blends have the NTEP, stamp on the bag, whether that means anything or not, supposedly they have been hand picked strictly for the Midwest!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Not the first one. It has creeping red fescue.


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

g-man said:


> Not the first one. It has creeping red fescue.


I know that confuses me as well, they say it's their best selling blend and I was like "but it has creeping fescue!" Thanks for solidifying my thoughts on that!!


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

Doing some research I've found this, I'm wondering if they told me Perennial Rye but it's really this:

http://www.unitedseeds.com/Snap%20Back%20RR%20Tech-16.pdf


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

An FYI that you may find useful in choosing seed (not regarding selection of cultivars):
Reading the label:
https://ag.umass.edu/turf/fact-sheets/understanding-turfgrass-seed-label
If you want to loose your mind:
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=2a0005a068d31df3ae801cbb8aad1b2a&mc=true&node=pt7.3.201&rgn=div5
Generally, three classifications, non-certified (must meet minimum Fed and state requirements which are more lax regarding other crop and weed percentages), certified (which has higher standards and usually requires less allowable other crop and weed percentages--sometimes called Blue Label), and sod quality ( employs more stringent standards than certified and usually requires a larger test sample to be inspected/tested --sometimes call Gold Label)


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## Eric (Aug 15, 2017)

I have devised a plan of attack. I will be starting a new thread this evening so you all can follow along if desired. Will it work, heck I don't know, I'm completely new to this! Worse case others can learn from my mistakes as I made a glaring one. After spending an hour at EarlMay today it's pretty much decided I burnt the crap out of my front yard!!


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