# Reseeding after Overseeding? *Advice*



## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

Please advise.. I aerated and overseeded my lawn with GCI turf cool Blue TTTF (bought via yard mastery 😉) on 9/12/20. It's now 9/29/20 (aprox. 2.5 weeks) and its come up amazingly, I'd say about 80-90% germination.

My question is that I have a bag of Jonathan Green Black beauty ultra which I purchased in March 2020 that has a test date of June 2019 and a sell by Sept 30th 2020 date on it. Rather than let it sit all winter I wanted to hand seed the bare areas that didn't take very well and garden weasel it in soil (for the 10-20% that didn't germinate well), but since its a 25lbs bag and I have 12,000 sqft. I was planning to mow for the first time (3 weeks to the day after aeration and overseeding) and then hoping to just broadcast spread the rest of the JG BBU as another overseeding (not raking it in or anything, but just adding another round of starter fertilizer and watering religiously) will this kill off the GCI grass that did germinate well due to crowding or anything? I was hoping to thicken the lawn, add different cultivars and have a lush lawn (I plan to keep watering). But what I don't want is to kill the 90% germination I have. I plan to do this this weekend which is 3 weeks after my original aeration and overseeded application. Any advise or comments on this would be helpful.

If this wont hurt the newly growing grass seed and the only worry is the new planted seed wont germinate that is fine since storing it all winter, spring and summer just to plant next fall will also cause for low germination rates anyway so I might as well try and add cultivars and thicken the lawn right? images of the lawn taken today for reference of Mowing length (meaning it needs to be mowed and has not had its 1st cut) and germination results.


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## Oneacer (Sep 27, 2020)

I see what appears to be a lot of Quack grass there .... tough to get rid of that stuff, but at least its green .. 

I personally think you'll be fine storing any seed if it is sealed well and stored in a cool dry area.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Those grassy weeds concern me as well. I'd also cut asap. New grass needs to be cut back to 2" the first couple of cuts. Usually when the grass reaches 2.5", you cut it back.

I would only seed the bare areas and save the rest. The seed isn't going to go bad on October 1st. You may not get the same germination rate in subsequent years but the majority of that seed will still be good.


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

Yeah I didn't put down any tenacity or anything during seeding and I planned on tackling the major weeds in the spring since the weeds go dormant for winter I read. I did buy a grandpas weed puller and plan to use it on as many weeds as I can this weekend right before I cut it. I'll also cut it down to 2.5" which I didn't know about but I assume that means I should bag my clippings vs mulching? (I was told set the mower to the highest setting for the 1st mow).

Thanks again for the advice and i guess the consensus is to just reseed the bare areas and leave the rest of the seed stored away. Maybe I'll store it inside the house for even better temperature control since it'll already be opened and I won't be able to use it until fall of next year... especially since it looks like i'll be tackling the weeds and quack grass come spring..


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## Oneacer (Sep 27, 2020)

Yeah, I myself have stored seed to the following year with no ill effects. I keep it sealed up good, and put it in my dry basement.

I just mowed some areas that I had tilled up, including tilling in compost, probably about to the 2" height, came out real good. I will be over-seeding entire lawn as soon as my JD Core Plugger gets here ... Thank goodness we are starting to get rain, will allow me to pull good plugs, as well as save on my water bill.

My lawn is free of your typical weeds, as I went after the clover and ground ivy in the spring with Hi-Yield Triclopyr Ester. Got rid of it all for good.

I do have some areas with that quack grass, but at least its green blades, but will deal with that at a later time, as I understand you pretty much have to kill everything off and remove it, ... thankfully it is only in a few select areas ... next years job most likely ...


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Lawn Noobie said:


> My question is that I have a bag of Jonathan Green Black beauty ultra which I purchased in March 2020 that has a test date of June 2019 and a sell by Sept 30th 2020 date on it. ...[/url]





Harts said:


> ... The seed isn't going to go bad on October 1st. You may not get the same germination rate in subsequent years but the majority of that seed will still be good.


+1.

Seed lasts 3-4 years with only a moderate reduction (maybe 5% per year?) in germination rate if it is stored in a cool, dry place, such as a dry basement.

The seed that was sown in our currently ongoing small renovation is seed that we purchased in May 2018. We have stored it in our basement since then. I had no concerns about sowing it for our renovation this fall. It germinated just fine. I wouldn't hesitate to use it for a couple more years (and still have quite a bit left!)


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Harts said:


> New grass needs to be cut back to 2" the first couple of cuts. Usually when the grass reaches 2.5", you cut it back.


I'm seeing this a lot as a way to encourage grass to tiller rather than staying single bladed. However, won't early mowing inhibit root growth? After all, less on top means less photosynthesis to feed the plant?



Harts said:


> I would only seed the bare areas and save the rest. The seed isn't going to go bad on October 1st. You may not get the same germination rate in subsequent years but the majority of that seed will still be good.


^^^This.^^^ The seed germination rates on the bag are guaranteed until the date stated. It doesn't "turn into a pumpkin" at midnight on that date. Most of the seed will still be viable for a few years as long as you store it in a cool dry place like in a dry basement - not a garage or shed. The important thing about storage is to minimize temperature and humidity swings. Once it is exposed to long-term moisture, it will be ruined.


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

Agree with @Harts. Seed the bare areas and store the rest.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

@Deadlawn my recommendation comes from this article at Purdue.

https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ay/ay-3-w.pdf


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Harts said:


> @Deadlawn my recommendation comes from this article at Purdue.
> 
> https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ay/ay-3-w.pdf


OK thanks.


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

My gosh you guys are awesome.. as much as I want to just throw down the extra seed I will wait until fall it seems. Spring will be about pre em and weed fighting!

Last question is for fertilizer options since I'll seed the bare areas today. I used carbon X's Xstart fertilizer one week after the overseeding on 9/17 it best to do another application of starter fertilizer since I will reseed bare spots? If so can I do a blanket application or only on the bare spots?


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

Well for anyone following this thread I went ahead and did my first cut @ 2.5" and bagged the clippings. I then put some more starter fertilizer down at bag rate which I believe was 3.2 lbs per 1,000. I used a mix of leftover Xstart and greenview starter fertilizer. I seeded the bare spots with JG Black beauty ultra and used a garden weasel to contact the soil. I then went ahead and overseeded with the remaining seed vs storing it. I then sprayed a bit of a mixture of (soil loosener, humic, seaweed extract, hydretain, and superthrive) and i will update the results with pictures in 21 days. I hope it won't destroy all my great germination i had initially. Finally I am watering the lawn 2x a day to keep the soil moist.


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## VALawnNoob (Jun 9, 2020)

Lawn Noobie said:


> Well for anyone following this thread I went ahead and did my first cut @ 2.5" and bagged the clippings. I then put some more starter fertilizer down at bag rate which I believe was 3.2 lbs per 1,000. I used a mix of leftover Xstart and greenview starter fertilizer. I seeded the bare spots with JG Black beauty ultra and used a garden weasel to contact the soil. I then went ahead and overseeded with the remaining seed vs storing it. I then sprayed a bit of a mixture of (soil loosener, humic, seaweed extract, hydretain, and superthrive) and i will update the results with pictures in 21 days. I hope it won't destroy all my great germination i had initially. Finally I am watering the lawn 2x a day to keep the soil moist.


I give you props for being so patient. I was in same boat but just decided to overseed a 2nd time especially in still bare areas and not keep the seeds longer than needs to be. At worst I will just buy more seeds next season. Is there an advantage of XStart? The more I hear Matt speak himself, the more I feel like any normal high P starter will do. What exactly will XStart do for an overseed that is better than a starter fert (which can be bought at local supply stores for around $22)? I just can't justify paying 2-3x after shipping.


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

VALawnNoob said:


> Lawn Noobie said:
> 
> 
> > Well for anyone following this thread I went ahead and did my first cut @ 2.5" and bagged the clippings. I then put some more starter fertilizer down at bag rate which I believe was 3.2 lbs per 1,000. I used a mix of leftover Xstart and greenview starter fertilizer. I seeded the bare spots with JG Black beauty ultra and used a garden weasel to contact the soil. I then went ahead and overseeded with the remaining seed vs storing it. I then sprayed a bit of a mixture of (soil loosener, humic, seaweed extract, hydretain, and superthrive) and i will update the results with pictures in 21 days. I hope it won't destroy all my great germination i had initially. Finally I am watering the lawn 2x a day to keep the soil moist.
> ...


Well I wasn't so patient as you can see and decided to reseed the bare areas as well as overseeded the entire lawn rather than keeping the seed until next fall 2021. It's germinating slow IMO and thats if it will even germinate... but it has only been 6 days yet.

I am still watering on a new seed schedule which I'm hoping won't hurt my original seeding which by now should be getting a good soaking every other day vs the 3x a day I am currently doing but the second I see germination (which I hope will happen in 8 days) I will taper off. As for the XStart this is my firs time trying it and I did use the xgrn this year but supposedly the XStart is supposed to have micro nutrients that a "normal" starter fertilizer wouldn't. I hope someone else with more experience can chime in?

For the price I paid for it I have about 12000 sqft and a bag covers 15000 sqft so I had some left over and mixed it with a 5000 sqft of greenview starter fertilizer for my 2nd app @ 21 days so it kind of worked out to not be too expensive for me.. although my 2nd application was light since I had the suggested rate for 8000 sqft that I used over my 12000.

Hopefully this makes sense and someone can say if I am doing it wrong as I plan to use a generic bag of scotts starter fertilizer I have laying around that's both high in N and P but only covers 5000 sqft so it will be another light application that I'll be putting down in a week or so.. after I see germination from the 2nd overseeding/reseeding.


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

Should I be worried? I reseeded the bare areas with JG BBU and also overseeded the entire lawn with it on 10/1. I mowed the lawn yesterday 10/7 since the original overseeding with the GCI cool blue was growing in pretty high (this was the 2nd mowing). I noticed that I could see some seeds but no blades of germination at all.. its been only 6 DAS but soil temps have been consistently 60-63 and I've been watering the same schedule of 3x a day for 10-15 min per area.

My concern is did I disturb my chances of germination by mowing my original grass so soon(6 DAS)? And is it normal for JG BBU to take this long even for the perennial rye? Here is the label of the bag species but I'm hoping I don't have a bad bag.. I purchased it in March and its been in the shed since then including the summer.


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Lawn Noobie said:


> Should I be worried? I reseeded the bare areas with JG BBU and also overseeded the entire lawn with it on 10/1. I mowed the lawn yesterday 10/7 since the original overseeding with the GCI cool blue was growing in pretty high (this was the 2nd mowing). I noticed that I could see some seeds but no blades of germination at all.. its been only 6 DAS but soil temps have been consistently 60-63 and I've been watering the same schedule of 3x a day for 10-15 min per area.
> 
> My concern is did I disturb my chances of germination by mowing my original grass so soon(6 DAS)? And is it normal for JG BBU to take this long even for the perennial rye? Here is the label of the bag species but I'm hoping I don't have a bad bag.. I purchased it in March and its been in the shed since then including the summer.


Germination can be delayed if you had a cold snap. Perennial rye has an estimated germination of 5-10 days, so in cooler weather, I would expect to see sprouts at the longer end of that.

Also, suction from the mower could have upset seeds that were just starting to sprout.


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

Okay thanks I will keep an eye out and update. The weather has been very good and the soil temperature has never been below 60° so I doubt it was cold snap, but let's see if my mowing did any damage. I used a toro recycler to avoid disturbing the seed as much as possible. Hopefully the mowing with a HOC of 2.5" will let more sun reach the seed..


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## estcstm3 (Sep 3, 2019)

I did a reno and then threw some seed down and its second reseed is defintely slower, im chalking it up to the cooler temps. It will be all good.


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

You're right I see some germination today but definitely not nearly as much or as fast as the original overseeding. I'll keep watching and watering


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

Yeah germination definitely feels 2-3x slower than it was for me when I put seed down second week of Sep (temps averaging 80 high, 70 low) versus now, but we have a warm stretch the next few days too. I do like getting the bulk down early so that I can address the remaining problems after 3-4 weeks but waiting for those remaining holes to close in is a practice in patience....


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

So the lawn looks much better and I'm sure a lot of it is due to watering and fall in general but the GCI cool blue is also coming in nicely which is a huge part as well.

The JG BBU is starting to germinate in some areas slowly but I'm not so sure just how surely.. picture update


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

Oh yeah, that'll do! Good job


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

Thank you!

I did something and not sure how it will work out.. but again I'll post my results.. We're expecting some rain today so I put down some more fertilizer but at I believe a low rate. It was a mix of leftover starter fertilizers that I had and a full bag of purely organic lawn food (10-0-1) which was the majority in the mix to be used as a safety "carrier." Basically it was a corner of a 45lbs bag of XStart (8-24-4) mixed with a fourth of a 16lbs bag of greenview starter fertilizer (10-18-10) a little over half of a 18lbs bag of sta green starter fertilizer (18-24-6). I mixed them really well using a five gallon bucket and a trash bag bag and forth mixing and stirring until it looked uniform in color pellets most of it being the purely organic lawn food. I have 10000 sqft and the amount of product mixed I would say would cover about 8000sqft

I didn't water it in expecting rain which hasn't come but is expected. It hasn't been 24 hours since application but I am wondering if I should water now or wait for the expected rain today. Its looking like the rain will come but hasn't come at the time expected so we will see.


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## Oneacer (Sep 27, 2020)

Time and patience are 2 things required for striving for a green, weed free lawn. It also helps to have some equipment and know-how .... &#128522; ..... I keep at it ..... Love the JGBBU .... I also have baby sprigs coming up from a few days ago&#128522;


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## Nyknicks076 (Sep 26, 2020)

Is it too late to reseed/overseed? If I was to start this weekend ? I live in ny on Long Island. Thanks


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Nyknicks076 said:


> Is it too late to reseed/overseed? If I was to start this weekend ? I live in ny on Long Island. Thanks


Find your soil temp here:

https://www.greencastonline.com/tools/soil-temperature#

And your planting zone here:

https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/

I'm in Zone 6A and my soil temps are now hovering in the upper 50's. The last day it's practical to seed here is Oct. 1.

Being surrounded by water does moderate temps to some degree, so I presume your hard frost date is considerably later like November. However, as soil temps drop, it takes seed longer to germinate and longer for seedlings to grow up. You could probably seed PRG.


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## Nyknicks076 (Sep 26, 2020)

Deadlawn said:


> Nyknicks076 said:
> 
> 
> > Is it too late to reseed/overseed? If I was to start this weekend ? I live in ny on Long Island. Thanks
> ...


I'm in zone 7a with 58 degrees according to the website. I'm thinking of getting WaterSaver Grass Mixture with Turf-Type Tall Fescue Used to Seed New Lawn and Patch Up Jobs - Grows in Sun or Shade

You think I can still reseed or better of waiting for spring ? If so when would be a good time in spring to reseed? Thanks

Ps. I am new so I joined this forum for advice. I just redid my lawn like a month ago from scratch.


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Nyknicks076 said:


> Deadlawn said:
> 
> 
> > Nyknicks076 said:
> ...


Fall seeding is generally more successful than spring seeding - Sept. is really ideal. If you're in Long Island, I am assuming your soil is sandy. Sandy soil doesn't hold much water, so you need your grass to develop good roots before the heat of summer. From my own experience, summer is far more lethal to grass than winter. When I lived in NJ and had clay soil, I could get away with spring seeding and have success. Here in sandy Western MA, spring seeding only works in shady areas.

When you say "WaterSaver", are you talking about Barenbrug's RTF? That is a good quality blend, but tall fescue generally takes 10-14 days to germinate, so if you seed tomorrow, your grass will sprout on Oct. 22 at best. However, if we get a warm spell and you are vigilant about keeping the ground moist, it may sprout a bit sooner. Depending on how large an area you have, it may or may not be worth taking the time and $$ risk. Hard frost will kill tiny seedlings, but they will most likely survive light frost.


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

Nyknicks076 said:


> I'm in zone 7a with 58 degrees according to the website. I'm thinking of getting WaterSaver Grass Mixture with Turf-Type Tall Fescue Used to Seed New Lawn and Patch Up Jobs - Grows in Sun or Shade
> 
> You think I can still reseed or better of waiting for spring ? If so when would be a good time in spring to reseed? Thanks
> 
> Ps. I am new so I joined this forum for advice. I just redid my lawn like a month ago from scratch.


Unless the label on that (any) bag of seed shows "0.00" % (as in ZERO!) % "Weed seed" I would not use it!

That description sounds an awful lot like what I used in at least a dozen "problem patches" back in 2016-17 and I am convinced how I wound up with so many grassy weeds that had NEVER been in our large yard ever before. I've been blaming deer browsing in weedy areas and then pooping in our yard at night but, there is no mistaking it, the only p,aces those grassy weeds have COST ME A FORTUNE (not to mention months and months of time!) is where I used "New Lawn & Patch" stuff .... the seeds coated with something advertised to reduce somewhat the need for watering

Somebody did the math on how many THOUSANDS of weed seeds even "0.01" % weed seed works out to. Just not worth it!


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

440mag said:


> Nyknicks076 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm in zone 7a with 58 degrees according to the website. I'm thinking of getting WaterSaver Grass Mixture with Turf-Type Tall Fescue Used to Seed New Lawn and Patch Up Jobs - Grows in Sun or Shade
> ...


WaterSaver is not coated seed. It is called WaterSaver because of the grass type and cultivars. At least if it's this one. And it is 0.00% weed seed:


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## Old Hickory (Aug 19, 2019)

@Lawn Noobie Doesn't JG BBU have some KBG which germinates a lot slower than TTTF?


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## Nyknicks076 (Sep 26, 2020)

Deadlawn said:


> 440mag said:
> 
> 
> > Nyknicks076 said:
> ...


Cool thanks everyone. I also applied fall weed and feed. Will that harm/impact reseeding in anyway? I ordered the seeds online so I'm debating if I can still reseed and not waste seeds. It's suppose to get cooler in November as well so I am worried if it won't harm the seeding.


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## Deadlawn (Sep 8, 2020)

Nyknicks076 said:


> Deadlawn said:
> 
> 
> > 440mag said:
> ...


I think you can't seed if you applied weed and feed and vice versa. *Read the label on the weed and feed product you have. * I believe it says if you seed, wait at least 6 weeks before application.


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## Oneacer (Sep 27, 2020)

Ditto on the weed and feed ..... Taboo on new grass as mentioned.


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

Old Hickory said:


> @Lawn Noobie Doesn't JG BBU have some KBG which germinates a lot slower than TTTF?


@Old Hickory yes and that was what worried me on top of just not being patient enough. According to JG website it takes 20-30 just for the KBG to even germinate! That puts me into November 1st and I'm worried it won't have time to harden off after it germinates. I'm hoping for a warm November lol. I have seen germination of the other grass though finally which is a good sign but I really need the KBG for its self spreading capabilities so let's hope it comes in and hardens quickly.


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

Deadlawn said:


> WaterSaver is not coated seed. It is called WaterSaver because of the grass type and cultivars. At least if it's this one. And it is 0.00% weed seed:...


 :thumbup: 10-4 and so good to know (had NO idea that blend existed). The crap, err, stuff I made the mistake of using was Scott's and Pennington "coated" seed (iirc the coating reduced the % of seed that dried out at otherwise normal rates). In any event, due to not knowing how even 0.01 % noxious weed can set up insurmountable challenges to even a Tier 1 aspirant like I, I remain "once burned, twice shy" when it comes to anything other than "0.00 and, "None Found!" :lol:

OP, here's also hoping for a "warm November" (seems a lot of us are in the same boat! :lol: )


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

How do you all deal with weeds that sprout after overseeding? I didn't use tenacity at the time of overseeding and I want to know what my options are? I overseeded on 9/12 and reseeded 10/1. Here are pictures of the weeds and the lawn itself. I seeded with TTTF KBG and Rye mix (GCI cool Blue and Jonathan Green Black beauty ultra)


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Pull them out by hand, spot spray or wait for them to die over winter?


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

@1028mountain spot spraying now will be okay? Considering some of the KBG did not yet germinate possibly. If so and others recommend this approach what should I use to target that weed? I have Bonide weedbeater ultra concentrated, 2-4D, moss out, crossbow 32, and sedge ender on hand...

I won't pull by hand as an option for that clover looking weed but I did use a grandpas weed puller to pull all the large bladed weeds at time of reeseding.


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## estcstm3 (Sep 3, 2019)

im in the same boat, id just wait till winter kills it, then get a good pre emergent down before spring... if im missing something let me know.


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## Lawn Noobie (Sep 29, 2020)

@estcstm3 yeah I am wondering the same about that plan.. also what i should be putting down as a good pre emergent come spring?


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

For clover you can ortho CCO which is totally fine after a couple mows IIRC. I have the same clover but used tenacity..that and the cooler weather seemed to have killed most off it off.


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