# Same thing, every year



## Danno99 (Aug 9, 2018)

I have the typical new england mix of grasses, and each year I see the same thing happening.
Spring starts out like gangbusters. I'm mowing the lawn twice a week and it looks great. I only use Step 1 or something similar, in the beginning. Once July/August rolls around and things heat up, my grass seems to stop growing, everything thins out, crabgrass and clover shows up, the grass turns brown and I seem to have a ton of thatch if I power rake my lawn.
I have sprinklers and I used them during the heatwave, and I use Milorganite as my fertilizer. I overseed and patch bare spots every fall. 
I bought my house 12 years ago and my PH was 4.0 and I had a massive bent grass issue. My PH is currently 6.7 and the bent grass is gone, but I still run into what I described above every year.
Any suggestions? Do I need to fertilizer more? I changed from bagging to mulching. I have spread yards of compost in previous years and I tried to amend every chance I get.

Thanks!

Dan in NH


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

If you are noticing a weed problem mulching will def make it worse. I'd bag when you are getting heavy weed pressure so you aren't throwing weed seeds back into ther yard.

Have you been using a pre M?


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Danno99 said:


> I have the typical new england mix of grasses, and each year I see the same thing happening.
> Spring starts out like gangbusters. I'm mowing the lawn twice a week and it looks great. I only use Step 1 or something similar, in the beginning. Once July/August rolls around and things heat up, my grass seems to stop growing, everything thins out, crabgrass and clover shows up, the grass turns brown and I seem to have a ton of thatch if I power rake my lawn.
> I have sprinklers and I used them during the heatwave, and I use Milorganite as my fertilizer. I overseed and patch bare spots every fall.
> I bought my house 12 years ago and my PH was 4.0 and I had a massive bent grass issue. My PH is currently 6.7 and the bent grass is gone, but I still run into what I described above every year.
> ...


Could be a lot of reasons but off the top of my head, 1) what's in the NE mix? If there is fine fescue that might be part of the problem. Maybe try overseeding just KBG or KBG+tall fescue this year 2) are you using fungicides? If not, maybe next year you try running scott's diseasex BEFORE it starts getting hot. Look for low temps not getting below about 65F to 70F as the right time to apply the diseaseX


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Spring and fall are best for fertilization.
Add pre-emergent in spring and in fall as well, if possible. That can be a little tricky if overseeding. 
The browning is harder to diagnose, but fungus, drought, heat, insects, and sub-surface rocks come to mind.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Danno99 said:


> Once July/August rolls around and things heat up, my grass seems to stop growing, everything thins out, crabgrass and clover shows up, the grass turns brown and I seem to have a ton of thatch if I power rake my lawn.


Hi, Dan!

You know what I would do if I were you (and it's what I did to get bitten by the lawn bug)? This is what I would do...

Control the weeds.

Once you learn how to do that one, little thing, you will feel GREAT! Once you learn how to control weeds, you will feel like the Master of Your Lawn. NOTHING will be impossible for you! Your eyes will open up, your jaw will drop, and you will be STUNNED TO SILENCE!

In short, you will be awe-stricken.

That crabgrass, man. It is SO discouraging. The clover... the Creeping Charlie... the lawn that looks like Grammy's Lawn and threatens to go Zombie on you year after year. It makes you wonder why you even work so hard...

You can stop it! You can do this! It is not a problem, man, if you will just get ahead of the weeds and knock that stuff back.

You have the Milorganite. That's a GREAT first step! You seem to know what you're doing. Do you know what you seem to be missing?... A pre-emergent weed control plan. That's right!

Every spring, work to keep out those weeds. Keep that slate clean. See what you're working with and THEN attack THOSE problems.

Priority #1 is spring weed control with prodiamine. Research on that for a little bit and then buy a jug of it. I think it will cost you about $65 bucks but it should last you a LIFETIME. Imagine, $65 bucks just once in your ENTIRE life and you are largely done with weeds... FOREVER!

Your lawn cycle is weeds in spring, seeds in fall.

Which means control weeds in spring, consider planting or seeding new lawn in fall.

There are fall weeds that you will want to fight. If you are Googling around, read on Tenacity. It's another $65 bucks and lasts your whole life but before you go down THAT rabbit hole, read the Cool Season Lawn Guide.

Read that wonderful piece of thoughtful lawn advice and DECIDE... decide how deeply you want to go with your lawn.

Read that guide, learn BASIC lawn maintenance, and step it up with spring weed control and THEN... get absolutely crazy with fall weed control.

All my best from the border,
Murph


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## Danno99 (Aug 9, 2018)

Thanks for all the suggestions and quick responses!
The typical mix of grasses in my lawn would be Kentucky Blue Grass, Fescues, and Perennial Rye.

Many commented on the weeds, and while they are a problem, they don't appear early in the season. 
It's only when things heat up and the lawn thins out that they start to appear. 
I won't dare dethatch in the middle of the season as someone suggested.
I've also have used Tenacity, which was a godsend for finally curing my bentgrass issues.
I just received my soil test results that I posted on a different forum here, and I researched the results and apparently I'm really lacking in Potassium and I'm wondering if that may be why my grass peters out in the hot weather?
I'm pretty much doing what's been suggested already, but I've never done anything with Potassium? I wouldn't even know how to add it?

Thanks again!
Dan


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Danno99 said:


> I'm pretty much doing what's been suggested already, but I've never done anything with Potassium? I wouldn't even know how to add it?


Buy this..

It should come to you looking like baby powder. Mix ~3/4 pound to a gallon of water. Use a milk jug. It will dissolve in water. Keep it around as a standard application as needed.

Spray dissolved powder on lawn according to recommendations.

Get a Chapin rechargeable battery backpack sprayer if you don't have one. It's perfectly fine and will serve you well. There are others but this one works well.

Murph


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Potassium is the third nutrient listed in a fertilizer number. If you don't need phosphorus, you could look for a fertilizer with nitrogen (the first number), no or little phosphorus (the second number), and with potassium (the third number). The numbers are the percentages of each nutrient in that product. Suppose there was a fertilizer labeled 20-5-15. That means 20% of the weight of the bag is nitrogen, 5% is phosphorus, 15% is potassium. Multiply to see how much of each nutrient is in the bag. The soil test tells you how much potassium per 1000 sq ft you should apply over the year. Keep each application to no more than 1 lb per 1000 sq ft. for a nutrient.


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

if you are looking for potassium ferts use greenway. its about $25 cheaper for a 10lb bag
https://www.greenwaybiotech.com/products/potassium-sulfate-0-0-53?variant=4459785473


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

jha4aamu said:


> if you are looking for potassium ferts use greenway. its about $25 cheaper for a 10lb bag
> https://www.greenwaybiotech.com/products/potassium-sulfate-0-0-53?variant=4459785473


PERFECT! Bookmarked...

Thank you!

Say... I haven't tested it yet... anyone know if I can foliar this on flowers and veggies?

Murph


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Danno99 said:


> I have the typical New England mix of grasses, and each year I see the same thing happening.
> Spring starts out like gangbusters. I'm mowing the lawn twice a week and it looks great. I only use Step 1 or something similar, in the beginning. Once July/August rolls around and things heat up, my grass seems to stop growing, everything thins out, crabgrass and clover shows up, the grass turns brown and I seem to have a ton of thatch if I power rake my lawn. ...
> 
> Dan in NH


Dan, first off, welcome to The Lawn Forum. Sounds like you've made some good progress in the past 12 years. Congrats!

My initial speculation is that your issue is probably a combination of grasses that don't tolerate heat and drought stress well, insufficient watering, poor moisture retention in your soil (likely sandy), and a lack of weed prevention. However, these are just guesses off likely problems in our area. Without some pictures, more information on your maintenance practices, and seeing the soil, it's hard to make specific recommendations. I'll see if I can track down your posting with the soil test information -- that may provide some insight, too.

I wonder how close you are to me (Bedford, NH)? If you're real close I may have some stuff on hand which could help you out and would be willing to swing by and take a look at your lawn. If you're in south central New Hampshire, I get my sulfate of potash (0-0-50) at Achille Agway in Milford, NH. It's about $38 for a 50-pound bag.

Welcome!


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## Olkutty (Jul 12, 2019)

jha4aamu said:


> if you are looking for potassium ferts use greenway. its about $25 cheaper for a 10lb bag
> https://www.greenwaybiotech.com/products/potassium-sulfate-0-0-53?variant=4459785473


Thank you for this. I've been searching all day for something reasonable. Appreciate it!


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

I have the exact same repeating cycle with my lawn

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11955

Except this year it didn't happen. I didn't do anything majorly different this year with my routine except I raised my mower two notches during the summer. We also haven't had any extended hot&dry spells this summer.

I have sandy soil and full sun. I'm looking forward to being done with weeds (prodiamine) next year but I know the grass dying and thinning is another issue.


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## NJ-lawn (Jun 25, 2018)

davegravy said:


> I have the exact same repeating cycle with my lawn
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11955
> 
> ...


Raising your mowing height plus no dry spells prob helped a lot. Keeping your grass higher grows longer roots. The shorter you mow in summer the more you need to irrigate.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

NJ-lawn said:


> Raising your mowing height plus no dry spells prob helped a lot. Keeping your grass higher grows longer roots. The shorter you mow in summer the more you need to irrigate.


Word.

B


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

@Danno99 what's your sprinkler program like - how much water and how often? what's your HOC?

I was hoping adding well tuned in-ground irrigation would fix my issue during hot summers, but sounds like it may not be so easy...


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

BXMurphy said:


> NJ-lawn said:
> 
> 
> > Raising your mowing height plus no dry spells prob helped a lot. Keeping your grass higher grows longer roots. The shorter you mow in summer the more you need to irrigate.
> ...


Just getting going... you know, first year getting serious... @NJ-lawn has it exactly right.

Mow high (as high as you can go) with sharp blades (buy new ones if you have to!). Don't cut off more than 1/3 of the top of the grass. EVER!

Water one inch of water every week without fail. EVER!

Measure with a tuna can. PLEASE. Even rainfall counts.

After that, read the Cool Season Lawn Guide and decide how much lawn you really want to have.

Your lawn cycle is weeds in the spring, seeds in the fall.

That means fight weeds in the spring, plant grass seeds in the fall. Gospel Truth!

Use prodiamine to fight spring weeds as a pre-emergent. Prodiamine PREVENTS weeds. Very important! Write that down.

Murph


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## Danno99 (Aug 9, 2018)

Is there a way to respond to each response here or do I have to just add to the conversation?


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Danno99 said:


> Is there a way to respond to each response here or do I have to just add to the conversation?


A bit of both. If you click on the "quotation" icon in the upper right corner of a posting, your draft reply will quote that posting (like I did on this one) and let you reply to what is written in that posting. Your reply will end up being in the conversation with all other posts, but at least the quoted portion (I often edit it down to reduce duplication, but keep enough to be clear which posting I'm responding to) will be there to help clarify what you're talking about.


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## Danno99 (Aug 9, 2018)

davegravy said:


> Danno99 what's your sprinkler program like - how much water and how often? what's your HOC?
> 
> I was hoping adding well tuned in-ground irrigation would fix my issue during hot summers, but sounds like it may not be so easy...


 I doubt that you would have the same issues as I'm having now. The sprinklers really help, especially for me when I'm trying to grow new grass in the fall and I need to water the new areas 4 times a day for 10 minutes. I don't know what's going on with the formatting here but I'll just say that the mantra is to water deeply and infrequently.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Danno99 Did you ever do a full soil test? Crabgrass is usual encounter in the heat, but is your grass thinning down that is the problem. PreM will only mask the problem. PostM will only patch the problem. If you can sort out the grass heat weakness first... Some things to check not in order:

- Calcium content. Number 4 after NPK. Easy to fix with chicken manure.
- Micros
- Compaction/shallow roots. Get a soil prob and check if you can.
- HOC. try max height on your mower for the hot period
- water. Don't just water. As someone else said, measure water...

What I would try next Beginning-Mid June to check all boxes:

Dethatch, aerate, 1/2 Milo, 1/2 Chicken Manure (6-7% Calcium), total 1N/K, Micros blend, Humic acid, Kelp, Iron. No preM or postM only spot treatment. 1/2 inch water (measured) 2 times a week, 3 times a week when it gets very very hot. You can re apply Humic Kelp 1 month in.
Please don't forget to post results.
Cheers,
M


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

Danno99 said:


> I have the typical new england mix of grasses, and each year I see the same thing happening.
> Spring starts out like gangbusters. I'm mowing the lawn twice a week and it looks great. I only use Step 1 or something similar, in the beginning. Once July/August rolls around and things heat up, my grass seems to stop growing, everything thins out, crabgrass and clover shows up, the grass turns brown and I seem to have a ton of thatch if I power rake my lawn.
> I have sprinklers and I used them during the heatwave, and I use Milorganite as my fertilizer. I overseed and patch bare spots every fall.
> I bought my house 12 years ago and my PH was 4.0 and I had a massive bent grass issue. My PH is currently 6.7 and the bent grass is gone, but I still run into what I described above every year.
> ...


I've seem what you describe many times and 9 times out of 10 it's as simple as not enough water frequently enough. The grass starts going dormant and thins which gives the weeds their opportunity every time there's a little extra rain. Can you test soil water (a cheap moisture meter works fine for "dry" versus "not dry") or maybe just the screwdriver test. Test just before the next time you are set to water. If it gets too dry between waterings, what you describe will happen.


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## Danno99 (Aug 9, 2018)

Because the lawn on one side of my driveway and in the back of my house looks fine, I'd have to say that my watering is fine. I did recently have a chance to take a closer look at the weak spots and I believe my issues are sandy/compact/rocky soil in those areas. I'm willing to start working on these areas now, rather than wait until the fall, as I also have some spotty bent grass issues and that takes at least two applications to resolve, so that would bring me to Sept anyways. 
The questions I have now, which I might make another post for, is it ok for me to use bags of compost and peat moss that you find at HD to amend my soil? In the past I've purchased compost by the yard, but it's such a pain to spread and I only need to work on 6K square feet here? Also, if I dethatch and aerate now, just to get a head start on next year, would I be doing more harm than good, even though it's just for part of my lawn?

Thanks for all of your help.
Dan in NH


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@Danno99 Watering issues may occur in a 2x2 square... It is risky to draw conclusions based on areas...
For 6k sqf you will need a lot of bags...a lot. For a 1/4 inch layer you will need 125 cubic feet. Solid size bags are 1cuf each. You will need 125 bags for 1/4 layer... on 5K sqf
M


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