# davegravy's above ground DIY system



## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

@Babameca @Gino71

The plan:



Each color is a zone.

I got the top left mp3000 corner (90deg) connected via 3/4" poly tubing to my hose bib. It hits 25' radius, but no further even though they should hit 30'. Yes I tried adjusting the radius. I definitely have the GPM to do a single unit, not sure about my pressure. Tomorrow I'm going to pick up a pressure gauge and use it to see what's going on... I wasn't expecting to have issues with just a single nozzle connected.

I noticed it hits 25' at the left most part of the range but the range drops off quickly at the right end of the angle. By opening the angle a bit beyond 90 deg I could get 25' at the right end of the angle but that meant "wasting" a bit of water by watering the neighbour's garden - oh well.

I added in the bottom mp3000 corner and the output from the first one didn't seem to drop. Tomorrow I was planning to add in the middle 180degree head but I'm now questioning this approach. I really need 27.5' to go head-to-head, and head-to-head seems to be important because the mp3000s don't seem to cover much of the near range. I haven't measured but it seems like there's about a 6' radius around each head that gets barely any water - likely made worse by the fact the heads are over 1' above grade.



Unless I can push the radius to 27.5' there's going to be dry spots around the heads. Any thoughts on if I can live with this or if I should redesign maybe with mp1000s and a tighter head spacing?


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

That looks a very clean set-up. I know the challenge with H to H coverage and 5/8'. That's why I jest left off perfection on first place. You may have to run more zones. In this case keep in to low sprinkler count so you can run another zone from a different bib at the same time....or did you have 2 bibs?
If not, is there anyway (open basement ceiling?) to run a 2nd one from your main line...


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Babameca said:


> That looks a very clean set-up. I know the challenge with H to H coverage and 5/8'. That's why I jest left off perfection on first place. You may have to run more zones. In this case keep in to low sprinkler count so you can run another zone from a different bib at the same time....or did you have 2 bibs?
> If not, is there anyway (open basement ceiling?) to run a 2nd one from your main line...


I updated the first post with a plan drawing. The problem doesn't appear to be flow which is when adding zones helps. Even with one head on a zone I wasn't achieving the rated range so I suspect my hosue has less than 40PSI pressure for some reason.

I have an open basement ceiling and can branch off my main line but my understanding is this won't help if the pressure is low because if it is low at the hose bib it is likely low everywhere through the house.


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## Gino71 (Jun 21, 2020)

Definitely sounds like a pressure issue to me. The mp3000 at 90 deg and 40 PSI should get you to around 30' with .86 GPM. I wouldn't think you would have any issue driving a single mp3000 at the distance you need. I think validating your pressure at bib is a good start. How many feet does the 3/4 poly run from the bib to the mp3000?


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Gino71 said:


> Definitely sounds like a pressure issue to me. The mp3000 at 90 deg and 40 PSI should get you to around 30' with .86 GPM. I wouldn't think you would have any issue driving a single mp3000 at the distance you need. I think validating your pressure at bib is a good start. How many feet does the 3/4 poly run from the bib to the mp3000?


Yeah that's what I'm afraid of. Less than 20' of poly.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

davegravy said:


> Gino71 said:
> 
> 
> > Definitely sounds like a pressure issue to me. The mp3000 at 90 deg and 40 PSI should get you to around 30' with .86 GPM. I wouldn't think you would have any issue driving a single mp3000 at the distance you need. I think validating your pressure at bib is a good start. How many feet does the 3/4 poly run from the bib to the mp3000?
> ...


That sounds a bit weird to me. It means, every single time you water your yard, opening any faucet at home will dramatically reduce pressure on both, to the point to be noticeable...


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Babameca said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> > Gino71 said:
> ...


This is the case with the oscillating sprinkler I've been manually moving around. If someone flushes a toilet or takes a shower the sprinkler output drops to basically zero. This old house only has a 1/2" line going into the meter, and it's a big project with lots of digging to get the city to replace with 3/4 or 1"


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

OK I'm totally confused. Picked up a pressure gauge and measured 80PSI at the hose bib and 80PSI at the close corner head (20' poly run) and 80PSI at the far corner head (70' poly run). Plenty of pressure. Also measured the flow at the head at 5.3GPM, so plenty of flow.

Why am I not getting the throw? There's no wind or anything, and the head is very level.


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## Gino71 (Jun 21, 2020)

What kind of body is that? Is it a regulated body?

Do you have the poly connected directed to the bib and not going through a timer? Only other think I could think to try is to get one of those screw in adapters and use your gauge to test the pressure at the sprinkler itself.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Gino71 said:


> What kind of body is that? Is it a regulated body?
> 
> Do you have the poly connected directed to the bib and not going through a timer? Only other think I could think to try is to get one of those screw in adapters and use your gauge to test the pressure at the sprinkler itself.


PRS40 with a check valve. You mean I should put the gauge on the pop up thing in place of the nozzle? Not sure what the thread spec is for that - is it like 3/8" mipt or something? Dunno how easy it'll be to find an adapter for my gauge.

I know Hunter makes a gauge to go right on the head but seems to be difficult to get here in Canada.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

davegravy said:


> OK I'm totally confused. Picked up a pressure gauge and measured 80PSI at the hose bib and 80PSI at the close corner head (20' poly run) and 80PSI at the far corner head (70' poly run). Plenty of pressure. Also measured the flow at the head at 5.3GPM, so plenty of flow.
> 
> Why am I not getting the throw? There's no wind or anything, and the head is very level.


What is pressure at 5.3GPM full open? Static pressure and flow are not to be confused.
Get a Y split to your bib. One side the pressure meter, on the other a bucket. Open pressure meter full and start cracking open the bucket outlet to the point when you get the min allowed pressure for the sprinklers to run. No start over with empty bucket and time. Calculate GPM at this dynamic pressure.


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## BobLovesGrass (Jun 13, 2020)

Wild speculation here but what about adding a well pressure tank? That would supplement the supply and delay pressure drop.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Babameca said:


> davegravy said:
> 
> 
> > OK I'm totally confused. Picked up a pressure gauge and measured 80PSI at the hose bib and 80PSI at the close corner head (20' poly run) and 80PSI at the far corner head (70' poly run). Plenty of pressure. Also measured the flow at the head at 5.3GPM, so plenty of flow.
> ...


I did what I think you were asking. I opened the pressure gauge side of the y valve fully and the other side (going to the bucket) just enough to achieve 40PSI (this is the pressure that my sprinkler heads regulate to internally). I measured 3.5GPM with this, which is well above the 0.8PGM each head is rated to put out. Picture below.



Not sure what you mean "what is pressure at 5.3GPM full open"? If I open the bucket side of the Y-valve fully to give me 5.3GPM, the gauge reads 0 PSI.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@davegravy So you real supply to sprinklers is 3.5 not 5.3. I saw those are 0.8GPM, right? I am then guessing you have no more than 3 per zone? 4 may work, but getting to the limit. And all this when NO ONE is usign water in the house...


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

Babameca said:


> @davegravy So you real supply to sprinklers is 3.5 not 5.3. I saw those are 0.8GPM, right? I am then guessing you have no more than 3 per zone? 4 may work, but getting to the limit. And all this when NO ONE is usign water in the house...


All the design guides I've read have suggested 5.3GPM is the number to use for available flow, but I'm not experienced enough to argue with you. In any case, I couldn't achieve the rated radius (30') even with a solitary head on the zone, so I think we can rule out flow as the problem? I currently have the two corner heads on the green zone and have been holding off adding the middle 180degree head until I understand what's going on.

Using the Y setup from before, I removed the short hose going to bucket and re-attached my zone, and opened it 100%. The pressure reading with this is 62PSI, down from 80PSI static pressure. I assume it would read 0PSI if we had maxed out the available flow?


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

BobLovesGrass said:


> Wild speculation here but what about adding a well pressure tank? That would supplement the supply and delay pressure drop.


I'm open to it, and I'm also open to bypassing the hose bib since I know it's frowned upon. But I want to be sure I need to before I go to the expense and effort. All my measurements so far seem to suggest these heads should be performing...


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@davegravy I am not an expert either! Just pure math. And not here to challenge you, but trying to brainstorm, hoping it will 'pop'. No pressure won't probably drop to 0 but to the absolute min at which they can open up (the spring loaded head needs to pop)


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## DiabeticKripple (Apr 14, 2019)

maybe try changing to a non pressure regulated body. you have the pressure and flow, my bet is the body is restricting the flow too much.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm confused at the locations you are measuring gpm. Can you measure it at the location of the regulated body? No T or any other head connected to it.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

g-man said:


> I'm confused at the locations you are measuring gpm. Can you measure it at the location of the regulated body? No T or any other head connected to it.


I updated the drawing in my first post to show the poly tubing and POC and to help make things more clear. My initial tests were with just the north green 90 degree head installed, now I also have the south 90 degree green head installed in addition.

Earlier today I removed the north head (end of the line) stuck the tube end in my bucket and measured 5.3GPM. During this test the south head did not pop up (makes sense - no pressure due to open ended tube). I think this is the test you were asking for above?

Previously I'd measured 5.1GPM at the POC (hose bib) with nothing connected. Obviously some measurement error there since adding tubing can't increase flow.

The 3.5gpm was doing @Babameca's test at the hose bib with the y fitting at 40PSI

Hopefully that's more clear.


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## Gino71 (Jun 21, 2020)

davegravy said:


> Gino71 said:
> 
> 
> > What kind of body is that? Is it a regulated body?
> ...


Yeah this is what I meant to test the pressure at the head https://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/hunter-mp-rotator-pressure-gauge-adapter-pressure-gauge-adapter?gclid=CjwKCAjw88v3BRBFEiwApwLevcT4lEN5K-0qHXTGh-fiWN1d_0Dp86Wi8jHq0klCVs8plJOGBXwc5BoCbrAQAvD_BwE


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

You may be chasing ghosts.

The MP Rotators throw relatively fragile streams. They're very efficient, but not the best choice for long distances. I suspect the I-20 and PGP Rotors throw more reliable streams at 25 feet and farther.

My web research while planning suggested that that the MP Rotators are generally over-spec'd. A pro installer in my area told me the same. Your tests (and my limited experience) appear to confirm the rumor. In other words, the MP3000 isn't very good over 25 feet. As a general rule, you need to go "up" one model and dial it down to get your final distance. My yard is spaced at 15', so I used MP2000 and dialed them all way down with plenty of overlap.

Test a single MP3500 (31' to 35') running alone to see what real world distance you get. That might get you the 30 foot throw you need. Just be aware that the 1.2-ish GPM flow rate may require no more than 2 or 3 heads to run together for safe water velocities in your pipes. The concern is water hammer damage inside your home, not that you will hurt your irrigation gear.


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

hsvtoolfool said:


> My web research while planning suggested that that the MP Rotators are generally over-spec'd. A pro installer in my area told me the same. Your tests (and my limited experience) appear to confirm the rumor. In other words, the MP3000 isn't very good over 25 feet. As a general rule, you need to go "up" one model and dial it down to get your final distance. My yard is spaced at 15', so I used MP2000 and dialed them all way down with plenty of overlap.


Surprising because there's a ton of user reviews on amazon for the mp3000 and you would think this would come up repeatedly but I didn't see it mentioned. Not saying you're wrong, it's just surprising.

Seems like my choices are:

1) stick with my plan and irrigate longer or manually water the areas I know are going to get less coverage (around each sprinkler head). I still have *almost* head-to-head coverage which some people suggest is sufficient (@Babameca seems to be doing great without *any *head-to-head). There's still going to be a huge time and water $$ saving over moving my oscillating sprinkler around.

2) space closer and drop to an mp1000 or 2000. Requires running more tubing and buying more heads/nozzles. Not conducive to the fixed perimeter with a single portable hose line down the middle approach.

3) maintain the spacing but use mp3500. Requires having a way higher zone count (more tubing + valves) and/or upping the supply flow (no hose bib).

4) replace with PGP or other style rotors. Requires replacing all the heads I bought and probably rezoning like #3

Since this is a temporary setup for a couple seasons and I'm running out of time before my lawn reno I'm thinking I stick with the original plan (#1) and transition to #2 or #3 as part of a house/landscaping reno that's planned in a couple years where I'll likely bury the whole system and make it more professional/clean looking.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Choice No 1 is the obvious. In extreme heat, hand water spots that may develop drought stress. That may happen very rarely IMO.


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