# Lawn Levelling...



## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

TLF'ers...

Im looking to level my lawn and I have a few questions about product and technique

1. I see almost everyone suggest sand. I went to the landscape supply store to order 3 yards of sand but they said absolutely do not put it down unless you want a beach volley ball pit in your yard and I should be using sandy loam topsoil to get a greens grade leveled lawn. There is some merit to what he said because in the rear I did put sod down this year, tilled and regraded (up a few feet to come off of a new pool install) so there is some pretty aggressive settlement in areas where I would have quite a bit of sand.

2. My yard isn't that big. I don't have any mechanical equipment to pull a drag so its all muscle. Whats my best way to approach the leveling? A 36" landscape rake after shovel spreading it?

3. I have 3D KBG in the back where most of the settlement is and I've been stepping HOK down to where I can get the best leveling efforts (almost scalping high spots) but there are still areas that are an inch up to an inch and a half taller than the scalped areas. This is happening in areas I expect that were the edges of the sod sheets. is there anything I can do about these strips, or do I make this the high-point and level off of that? I know its not a good idea to tamp it or roll it, but it would almost seem like a decent idea in this case because of the fact that they are almost substantially higher?

4. Aeration. The front yard is softening up with all of my efforts with water, seed and fert this year but its safe to say that its not been aerated. Should I do that pre or post leveling?

5. Seed: I think im past the date to overseed in Kingston, On? Just moving into our new place this year ive been balancing what im able to do.

Thanks all,
Matt


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

I use sand alone as well as sand / peat mix. There is some merit to what the landscape supply said. Sand alone is basically devoid of nutrients and beneficial organisms and requires attentive, frequent management to maintain turf. If you're willing to go all in with sand alone, it won't be a just a beach.

An alternative is a sand / OM mix which holds water and nutrients better than sand alone. It costs more than just sand but may make managing a home lawn easier.

Whatever you apply, unless you're doing a full overseed, I wouldn't apply more than about 1/3" at a time (which works out to about a cubic yard of material per 1,000 sq ft). If the grass is growing fast, you can do the 1/3" about every two weeks. Don't smother the grass. Spreading any topdressing with a landscape rake is fine. I do it that way on smaller areas all the time. Cut the lawn short and strap in for some real work.

If you have a localized high zone, you can cut the turf, regrade and replace the turf. I don't understand what you mean by the edge of the sheets. Like a complete line of high versus low where the sodding ended?

You can aerate either pre or post leveling but it's just about always done pre-leveling and makes sense that it's more effective done that way.

I can't comment on your seeding date - don't know what the weather is like there. My philosophy has been that seed isn't really that expensive so don't shy away from seeding an area that needs it until it actually gets cold (around mid-October here). If it actually is too cold it won't survive but if there's no seed spread there won't be any new grass either - couple hundred bucks worth of seed isn't a lot in the big picture and I've been lucky enough with that gamble so far.


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## JohnP (Oct 24, 2017)

https://youtu.be/Xpr4xc3R3kg

https://youtu.be/SDWwv0zWk98


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

Delmarva Keith said:


> I use sand alone as well as sand / peat mix. There is some merit to what the landscape supply said. Sand alone is basically devoid of nutrients and beneficial organisms and requires attentive, frequent management to maintain turf. If you're willing to go all in with sand alone, it won't be a just a beach.
> 
> An alternative is a sand / OM mix which holds water and nutrients better than sand alone. It costs more than just sand but may make managing a home lawn easier.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your take.

Would I be doing myself any favors in doing some leveling with the sandy loam soil as suggested by the landscape supply for the near future to get the lawn closer to level and then step up to sand when I get closer to level as more of a topdressing leveling as opposed to filling the settlement with sand?

What I mean by edge of sheets is almost as if the settlement is in the middle of a sheet of the sod so the edges are higher. It could have been me trying to cut the lawn after the 10 days post-laying the sod because it was pretty soft still and I would have stepped mid-sheet of the sod.

Would you aerate my rear yard that I sodded? I re-graded quite a bit, tilled it, topped with ~3" of food compost/topsoil mix and then sodded... its probably not compacted much sub-surface but it might be of benefit to the leveling efforts?

I have lots of seed. I will just spread it and see how it does I guess.


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

JohnP said:


> vids


thanks, I have watched these. His lawn in his older videos where he started leveling was quite a bit better than mine was. Settlement is a pain but we did a lot of landscaping work to the yard this year. I started making a yard journal but the post deleted for some reason when I was at the "and here we are" part


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## Delmarva Keith (May 12, 2018)

MMoore said:


> Delmarva Keith said:
> 
> 
> > I use sand alone as well as sand / peat mix. There is some merit to what the landscape supply said. Sand alone is basically devoid of nutrients and beneficial organisms and requires attentive, frequent management to maintain turf. If you're willing to go all in with sand alone, it won't be a just a beach.
> ...


Whether sandy loam is better than sand for your site conditions and management practices, I have to honestly say I don't know. Depending on how well your site is graded for drainage overall, sandy loam might be less risky to try as a first round and for the quantities you need won't cost a whole lot more.

The thing about the edges of the sod being higher I haven't seen before. Maybe post a picture. Sounds like it can be addressed with the normal grunt work of leveling.

For aerating new sod, I leave it alone for a year or two (unless it's showing signs that something is wrong). One benefit of spending lots of money on sod is instant lawn over bare ground prep work already done. It shouldn't need aeration yet and I'd leave it alone to establish well. Water, fert and let it grow. If it's growing strong, topdressing is ok.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

MMoore said:


> Delmarva Keith said:
> 
> 
> > I use sand alone as well as sand / peat mix. There is some merit to what the landscape supply said. Sand alone is basically devoid of nutrients and beneficial organisms and requires attentive, frequent management to maintain turf. If you're willing to go all in with sand alone, it won't be a just a beach.
> ...


@Delmarva Keith seems to be a nice person and is always helpful but I'm not sure that he would be willing to aerate your yard for you.  :thumbup:


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

TN Hawkeye said:


> @Delmarva Keith seems to be a nice person and is always helpful but I'm not sure that he would be willing to aerate your yard for you.  :thumbup:


 :lol: 
context.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

MMoore said:


> I have lots of seed. I will just spread it and see how it does I guess.


I just wanted to mention that I would NOT overseed 3d sod with most seed. Isn't 3d sod a Bewitched Kentucky Bluegrass monostand? If so, I wouldn't risk introducing weed seed, or even other grass types, from most seed mixes that would be overseeded. Many people here work very hard to get to a uniform grass type; I would definitely not just overseed a random grass seed mix onto a KBG sod.

Feed the KBG sod well via the nitrogen blitz and the existing grass will spread into holes the size of a saucer in a single spring or fall season.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

Im curious on this topic. Would your current soil type play into what material you used to level with? For example if you have a more clay type soil the sand is a welcoming addition for drainage etc. But what if you already have a more sandy soil? Shouldn't you want to level with something with more organic matter.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

@MMoore I agree with @ken-n-nancy, if you already have a KBG lawn, I wouldn't over seed. It's also very late in the season to start, unless you are using Perennial Rye (which I wouldn't recommend if you already have a monostand). Our first frost should be coming up in the next 3-4 weeks, cutting short the time the new grass will need to establish before Winter.

Feed it lots of N this Fall. It will fill in nicely and look great next year.


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

sorry, I have a divided lawn. its not all 3d KBG. Rear was sodded.... front im playing with trying things out....

the Seed I have is the following mix.

40% Argyle Kentucky Bluegrass
40% Boreal Creeping Red Fescue
20% Provost Perennial Ryegrass


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

The fescue and rye might be ok but I'm concerned the Kentucky may not have enough time. Your average first frost is Oct. 1-10. I don't want to discourage you, I just don't want your efforts to be wasted if the new grass doesn't have enough time to establish before Winter.


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## Jayray (Aug 8, 2018)

JDgreen18 said:


> Im curious on this topic. Would your current soil type play into what material you used to level with? For example if you have a more clay type soil the sand is a welcoming addition for drainage etc. But what if you already have a more sandy soil? Shouldn't you want to level with something with more organic matter.


I'm curious too, I'm hoping there are more opinions on what to use. I'm planning on leveling early next spring and I am still researching what to use. I am leaning toward a sandy loam with mulch/compost material added. I'm concerned about weeds with the added organic material but it seems like to me if you are going to go to the trouble of adding material why not try to improve the soil. Although my main goal is to level so I can get to a lower cut. My local landscape yard sells:

1.) sand "Clean, fine sand used for anything from sand boxes and volleyball courts, to topdressing grass and for paver joint sand."

2.) sandy loam "For bringing up grade and laying Sod. Sandy loam is a tried and true, inexpensive soil prized by contractors because it is easy to work with. Sandy loam is a utilitarian soil with little fertility, but makes good base for other soils. Sandy Loam is screened to be rock and debris free, and can be quickly raked out for laying sod."

3.) mixed sandy loam and compost "Specially formulated for seeding grass. This blend of sandy loam and compost is free draining to encourage deep root growth. Turf builder has just enough compost to give the new grass seed a boost to get going, while the sand helps to fight compaction"


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

Lawn levelling.

Timing.

Can I do more in the spring? I'm going to need to do this a few times especially in the area we regraded with sod.

I expect I can do it again in the spring once the ground it thawed?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

With sand? yes.


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

g-man said:


> With sand? yes.


With sand, you want the topsoil to be relatively close first though, ya?

Because I have some ridges from settlement that would leave some deep sand just to get level and then need a bit more to get even sand everywhere.

My back yard was filled 2'-4' with the install of the pool like a newly built lot and the. We tilled it to get the large clumps broken up and that is settling in now at different rates in different spots.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

MMoore said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > With sand? yes.
> ...


As long as the grass is growing quickly, spring and fall, put down sand. You can start in the deep parts and only do those, wait a couple weeks, then see where you are. Once those deep parts come up closer to grade, then sand the whole yard. Also, it isn't recommended to till since it will settle at different rates. Unless, your tiller has 4 wheels and you can set a max depth so it doesn't go too deep. Either way, you will probably need to sand anyway if you want a smooth lawn.


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> MMoore said:
> 
> 
> > g-man said:
> ...


thanks.

I will get into my reasoning in a second, but you would just fill with sand? interesting.... Is there any issue with having some areas with deeper sand in terms of grass health/appearance/etc? I don't want to create a new problem in the yard by having some areas with say 2" of sand and the rest of the lawn just 1/4".

with the re-grading of the lot by the pool company (they just dumped full bucket loads of fill from the pool excavation with a rough spreading) and the compaction caused by the machines moving around the yard to till it. I had used a commercial grade "barreto" hydraulic drive tiller that's around 460lbs and the compaction was so bad it took a whole day of tilling to loosen it up with that machine.

here is what it looked like when I first started to prep the yard. where the machine is parked they would come in, dump their fill materials/concrete/etc for the pool, turn a 180 and go back for more... it was really packed down, so I don't feel like I had any other option with the concrete like surface they left.

using that tiller also helped me do some "rough" fine grading being that you can control the tine spin direction and wheel travel direction independently... so I could basically pull or push the dirt around - a real life saver because that soil was so reluctant to move. anyways... this is where im at lol.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

@MMoore Wow. What a mess! Nice to be all done with that! I wouldn't worry about there being more sand in some spots. Over time, the grass will create organic matter in the sand and it'll hold onto more nutrients. It won't just be sand in a couple years.


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

Suburban Jungle Life said:


> @MMoore Wow. What a mess! Nice to be all done with that! I wouldn't worry about there being more sand in some spots. Over time, the grass will create organic matter in the sand and it'll hold onto more nutrients. It won't just be sand in a couple years.


that makes more sense when you put it into perspective. I will grab some sand and a 36" landscape rake.

It was truly 2 steps back from what we had, but our family really wanted a pool... so we made it happen. Im working on a journal for my yard now, I will post it shortly.


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

That's cool! Nice thing with a lawn, it can always be fixed.


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## JDgreen18 (Jun 14, 2018)

@Suburban Jungle Life Im curious on this matter. Does your current soil structure play into what material you use to level? Meaning if one has a sandy loam vs clay?


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## silvercymbal (Sep 17, 2018)

I bought this tool this year for leveling areas and I think it's phenomenal. You can see how I used it here...
I have never had such an easy time getting an area flat so quickly. I used topsoil but it could easily do sand and probably even peat as well for topdressing. Cute dog alert too at the end 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tWbgeMU9LY&feature=youtu.be


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## Suburban Jungle Life (Mar 1, 2018)

JDgreen18 said:


> @Suburban Jungle Life Im curious on this matter. Does your current soil structure play into what material you use to level? Meaning if one has a sandy loam vs clay?


Unless you are sand based, I imagine over time if you keep leveling with sand, the top layer will be just that. If you only level a few times and stop if you feel it is smooth enough, then the deep parts will be only sand. I imagine water penetration will be quite different depending on how deep the sand areas are compared to the silt/clay areas. If you don't irrigate, the deeper sand areas will dry out first compared to the silt/clay areas. If you do irrigate, then it may not be as much as a problem. If you are concerned, then I guess you could level with silt/clay but it would have to be somewhat dry and you would probably have to sift it to be sure it is crumbly with a smaller particle size so you can spread it. I imagine it wouldn't be easy which is why sand is the preferred method. The best way is to start with a reasonably level lawn and then sand it after. Not always a choice, of course.

I do wonder, instead of using a material like sand or anything else to top dress and level, what about not adding material at all and leveling the current ground material? I'm thinking if you use an aerovator and then a landscape rake to redistribute the dirt. I wonder if that would work.


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

silvercymbal said:


> I bought this tool this year for leveling areas and I think it's phenomenal. You can see how I used it here...
> I have never had such an easy time getting an area flat so quickly. I used topsoil but it could easily do sand and probably even peat as well for topdressing. Cute dog alert too at the end


those look pretty neat. where did you pick it up?

I cant (easily) find one available.


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## PompousPilot (Sep 19, 2018)

I picked mine up at R&R products. It worked really well. Topsoil is harder to push than sand I found. Also, there was that golf course superintendent seminar that talked about sand's benefits as far as fungus was concerned. The sanded grass stands had 44% less fungus than unsanded stands of turf


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

silvercymbal said:


> (Youtube Video Link was here.)


Just wanted to say this is a great video! Really liked how you used the flags to mark the places that needed levelling, the enthusiasm of your helper (great job raising kids to be helpers and not scared of some work!), and good capturing of the use of the leveling tool (Levelawn). Thanks for sharing!


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## silvercymbal (Sep 17, 2018)

ken-n-nancy said:


> silvercymbal said:
> 
> 
> > (Youtube Video Link was here.)
> ...


Thank you very much I really appreciate the kind words, we had a lot of fun making that video too.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

@MMoore look here for the leveling rake. Based out of St. Catherines.

https://mkrittenhouse.com/ca/gravel-leveler-easy-spreader


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

Harts said:


> @MMoore look here for the leveling rake. Based out of St. Catherines.
> 
> https://mkrittenhouse.com/ca/gravel-leveler-easy-spreader


damn, $170.
good thing I weld, I guess. Winter project.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

I'm positive they changed their site recently. I was going to get one and I swear they had a cheaper model back in July.


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

I also see that some are using a channel or angle iron and that one above @Harts is using a round bar... I would expect the round bar to be a lot less effective...

thoughts? @silvercymbal

@Harts, I can easily make the head for you if you wanted to put it onto a handle. can make any size too.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Well that is an interesting idea. I might just take you up on that offer.

I guess I would just need to source the handle and pin?


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

Harts said:


> Well that is an interesting idea. I might just take you up on that offer.
> 
> I guess I would just need to source the handle and pin?


I can build to any spec, yeah. 2,3,4...10 rows, any width... (check my instagram for the stuff I regularly weld for a competency verification  @hellafabrication)

If I can build a few to make use of full length of materials that makes it cheaper per unit. yeah I can build it to use a handle from lowes or similar.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

That's awesome. I'll take a look at R&R and see how they make theirs and let you know.

Off the top of my head, probably 3-4 rows and a 36" width.

Custom paint colours included????? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

Harts said:


> That's awesome. I'll take a look at R&R and see how they make theirs and let you know.
> 
> Off the top of my head, probably 3-4 rows and a 36" width.
> 
> Custom paint colours included????? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Custom paint?
Trying to save a few $. I was going to let it patina like a ratrod.

The iron won't hurt your yard.


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

so, another thought on levelling...

if you do a normal soil (sandy loam) a few times repeatedly to build up the area... the grass does adjust and grow at the new soil height, correct? grass is not like a tree where the roots are established and small repeated filling will totally kill it?


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

MMoore said:


> so, another thought on levelling...
> 
> if you do a normal soil (sandy loam) a few times repeatedly to build up the area... the grass does adjust and grow at the new soil height, correct? grass is not like a tree where the roots are established and small repeated filling will totally kill it?


As long as you don't smoother the grass, it will adjust.


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