# Waypoint soil test results... Mercy, I have a lot of amending to do



## Glen_Cove_5511 (Jun 13, 2020)

Waypoint have completed part of my soil test and the results aren't looking great. I'll be deep tilling this soil in 3 weeks and I need advice on what to put down before tilling to help amend things. I'll post final results tomorrow or Wednesday once the Soil Texture analysis is complete. Any and all comments and suggestions are welcomed and appreciated.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Didn't Waypoint make fertilizer recommendations? Why are you deep tilling?


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## Glen_Cove_5511 (Jun 13, 2020)

The final results will include recommendations. I'm deep tilling to try and help break up the hard compaction and get some organic matter down in the soil. I've lost about 80% of my lawn due to standing water killing my TTTF. Before tilling, I'm installing some french drains as well. Thanks


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

You'll get recommendations from them, good. As for tilling, it sounds like you have a particular plan for particular reasons. It sounds rather dubious to me but I'm not an expert on drainage issues.


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## Glen_Cove_5511 (Jun 13, 2020)

@Virginiagal Yeah, my soil is pretty bad and when it gets really wet, the water doesn't move down through the soil. The root zone just stays extremely soggy for several days. With tilling I'm trying to help amend the lack of nutrients and also improve the soil structure by getting compost mixed in at least 6" down. After losing so much of the lawn, I figured why not do a renovation this fall.


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## Glen_Cove_5511 (Jun 13, 2020)

Just received the final report. @g-man, Based on these results... what would you suggest I put down and till into the soil before seeding?

The really strange thing is that this soil does not move water down into the root zone. I'm thinking during construction it became so compacted that it just can't.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

So let's start with the texture test. Sandy clay loam. 60% sand. This should drain pretty good. Your CEC (the ability to hold nutrients) it matches the sand, and it is towards the low side, 5.7

This means that you should consider applying products at half their monthly rates, but twice a week.

Both phosphorus and potassium are still low (your previous lab was also low).

Sulfur is higher than I expected. It is not bad, but can you explain it?

Manganese is higher than iron, bad that could cause you problems (yellow looking lawn). I suggest ironite or a product with iron to get the iron above the manganese.

You can use a balance fertilizer or do the phosphorus and potassium using different products. Check the soil remediation guide for details.


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## Glen_Cove_5511 (Jun 13, 2020)

Thanks @g-man, I really appreciate your time responding. I have a few follow-up comments/questions.

1) I agree, based on the soil texture... the soil should move water through the root zone. The soil I sent to Waypoint came from 2" - 5" deep cores. I pulled off the dead grass and 1" layer of compost that was spread last fall. Question is, why doesn't it drain? My only theory is the whole area was compacted during the time my septic drain field was installed and patio built. I'm hopefull that deep tilling will take the exisitng layer of compost, plus an additional inch I'll be spreading before tilling, down into the soil and help.

2) With both P and K being low, should I find a fertilizer that has a good amount of both and put it down before I till? I'll be seeding so I would imagine K will be important for root development.

3) I really don't know why Sulfur is high. This property was a heavily wooded area that had never been developed. This area gets a lot of wastewater that drains down from uphill properties. Many homes were built in the 50s with septic so maybe there was some sort of septic issue with a neighbor in the past. I really don't even know if that could explain it.

4) Last spring and through June I applied Ironite 3 times. It seems the compacted soil didn't allow it to move in to the root zone. Should I spread granular Ironite and till it in too?

5) I thought it was odd the recommendaton was to not put P down until Spring. My thoughts are to get both tilled in while I'm doing the renovation.

Thanks again!


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

@Glen_Cove_5511 what test did you get, if you don't mind me asking?

I notice yours has a buffer pH and mine does not. I also notice that yours has a textural class analysis.


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## wors (Feb 2, 2019)

Glen_Cove_5511 said:


> Thanks @g-man, I really appreciate your time responding. I have a few follow-up comments/questions.
> 
> 1) I agree, based on the soil texture... the soil should move water through the root zone. The soil I sent to Waypoint came from 2" - 5" deep cores. I pulled off the dead grass and 1" layer of compost that was spread last fall. Question is, why doesn't it drain? My only theory is the whole area was compacted during the time my septic drain field was installed and patio built. I'm hopefull that deep tilling will take the exisitng layer of compost, plus an additional inch I'll be spreading before tilling, down into the soil and help.
> 
> ...


Did you aerate or till the 1" of compost?


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

If compaction is the problem,, maybe you should consider aeration rather than tilling. Tilling will give you a bumpy, uneven lawn for years. It will cut up your earthworms and bring up buried weed seeds. I have doubts that incorporating organic matter will help with drainage. If you till so that the surface is then soft, you will have problems walking on it to sow seeds without leaving deep footprints.

The balanced fertilizer g-man suggested has equal amounts N, P, and K. Examples are 10-10-10 or 20-20-20. You could use that this fall to get a lb of P per 1000 sq ft and next spring to get the other lb. You can use SOP (0-0-50) to get the additional lbs of K. The spoon feeding g-man suggests has a typo: he means twice a month rather than twice a week. Instead of 1 lb of a nutrient once a month (in a month when you would be fertilizing), you would do 1/2 lb every two weeks.


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## Glen_Cove_5511 (Jun 13, 2020)

@turfnsurf The Soil Texture analysis is an extra $25. I felt I needed to see that given this is new soil to me. Not sure why you didn't get the Buffer PH.


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## Glen_Cove_5511 (Jun 13, 2020)

@wors Last October when this lawn was established after construction, everything was tilled and raked smooth. Once raked, an inch of compost was spread and raked smooth. In hindsight, I probably should have tilled the compost in and raked it smooth before seeding.


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## Glen_Cove_5511 (Jun 13, 2020)

@Virginiagal My original plan was to aerate for exactly the reason you stated about the difficulty in getting a smooth grade. After losing around 80% of my TTTF, I decided to just do a renovation. The guys will till the soil until it's workable enough to get it smooth. I'll never be any lower than a 4" HOC so I'm okay with it not being perfectly smooth. As for earthworms, I'm actually buying a few 1,000 to put out there after seeding. I see them as a big help with the soil over the years.

As for the fertilizer to use this fall to help address the P and K deficiencies, it looks like I need a fertilizer with around 2.5x more K than P. I need to look for a fertilizer that has that ratio or do as you suggested. I appreciate that suggestion. I like that spoon feeding idea since I know my soil doesn't move water easily to the root zone.

I really appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions!


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## turfnsurf (Apr 29, 2020)

Glen_Cove_5511 said:


> @turfnsurf The Soil Texture analysis is an extra $25. I felt I needed to see that given this is new soil to me. Not sure why you didn't get the Buffer PH.


I got the S3M test. I will reach out to them to find out if I should have gotten that with my test. And if so, if they can possibly provide it to me. Thanks for the information.

ETA: I called them. They said mine was done. They didn't know why it wasn't on the report, but they gave it to me over the phone. Thanks!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Glen_Cove_5511 I know you are set in doing the tilling. Adding P or K during the tilling is not going to help you, maybe the P, but not the K. Your soil has a low CEC. It cannot hold nutrients. The K will leach further down into the sub soil.

Birds add earthworms and they will multiply based on the soil conditions (OM). You adding them is not going to make them more available.

Dont look for fertilizer ratios, check the soil remediation guide for examples of what to use and how much.

Keep adding iron.


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## Glen_Cove_5511 (Jun 13, 2020)

Thanks @g-man... I'll follow Waypoint's recommendation for fertilization. I'll add it once tilling/seeding is done. From there I will spoon feed twice a month for the recommended rate.

What kind of Ironite program do you suggest... liquid or granular? Does it need to be monthly or only during the growing season?

Tell me more about earthworms. You said birds add earthworms and adding them won't help. Thanks!


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## wors (Feb 2, 2019)

Glen_Cove_5511 said:


> @wors Last October when this lawn was established after construction, everything was tilled and raked smooth. Once raked, an inch of compost was spread and raked smooth. In hindsight, I probably should have tilled the compost in and raked it smooth before seeding.


Bingo, you put a fine material over coarse. The water is going to stay in that compost layer until it can't hold anymore then finally start to drain down into the sand. A bandaid would be aerating to open the channels up but as the holes fill in with the compost/fine material you will experience the same issues. Do you notice the roots staying in the compost layer?

Tilling to mix the compost and sand would be a great solution.


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## Glen_Cove_5511 (Jun 13, 2020)

@wors... that's the plan! Also, I will be installing a couple of french drains to help move the some of the runoff I get in my lawn area away. My property is at the bottom of a bowl and gets a good deal of runoff when we have a heavy rain event in a short period of time. When that happens 80% of my lawn stays soggy for several days.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

If you are at the bottom of a bowl, you will still have lots of water coming down to you. If you haven't already, consult a local professional who can advise what, if anything can be done about it.


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## Glen_Cove_5511 (Jun 13, 2020)

@Virginiagal... I've talked to three different people about this and we've already done some work that will help. The french drains above the area are being installed in a couple of weeks before renovation and seeding. Thanks


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## Glen_Cove_5511 (Jun 13, 2020)

@g-man... I spoke to an agronomist at Waypoint today. I told him my soil was compacted and that I would be tilling it before putting down seed. Here's what he recommended. What do you think?

1) Apply 25 lbs./1,000 pelletized gypsum
2) Add 2" of compost across the entire lawn area
3) Deep till thoroughly, multiple passes as needed
4) Rake smooth
5) Put down 10 lbs./1,000 pelletized gypsum
6) Put down seed (Hogan recommended 6 lbs./1,000)
7) Put down Starter Fertilizer (I'll use Carbon Earth xStart)
8) Rake smooth

*I'm also adding 20 lbs./1,000 of Carbon Earth xSoil before tilling.

He also said that anytime I put down fertilizer during the growing season, it should always contain the same amount of Nitrogen and Potassium.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It sounds ok.


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## Glen_Cove_5511 (Jun 13, 2020)

Thanks @g-man, he didn't say anything about adding any potassium. Should I? Also, you mentioned getting Ironite down. Should I do that after germination?

My seed arrived today. Thanks!!


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