# Thin bermuda, hard clay soil



## Ncfire11 (Jul 4, 2020)

I seeded this lawn in late july, it's common Bermuda.

We went 14 days without rain beforehand and two days after seeding of course a monsoon came through, washing out quite a bit of seed. I irrigated twice a day lightly and the seed came up pretty good but there are thin spots and some washout areas. Starter fertilizer was applied at seeding.

My soil is very rocky and is primarily hard clay. It seems this hard clay is keeping the grass from spreading. The washed out seed grew well too just not where I wanted, so I plugged it to the bare areas best I could and it has surprisingly lived.

Is it too early in the lawns life to core aerate to reduce some of the compaction? I have a soil test that is pending still for nutrients but I know the PH is around 5.9. Fertilizer recommendations?

I was thrown into this due to the builder doing a substandard job so timing wise I know it's kind of late in the season. I plan on leveling with topsoil soon as well.

Thanks!


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## BudaTx (Jul 15, 2020)

I had some thin areas in my back yard. When those areas were aerated huge chucks of dirt came up. So just be aware it could damage the seedlings.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

No your in North Carolina. You are trying to do to much to late in the year. The only thing you need to do is apply fert and try to get your grass as healthy as possible before dormancy. On areas that are hard and compact. Spread some peat moss or even sand and get a little garden weasel to break up the soil. If you want it to grow fertilize and water like crazy. Do not aerate you will only damage your grass. That means your grass will try to repairs itself when it needs to be storing for winter.


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## sam36 (Apr 14, 2020)

"Hard" clay soil becomes pretty soft if kept wet. If you are wanting growth, you need to keep it wet and not let it gray out. You PH of 5.8 is odd as I thought all clay soil was alkaline. Either way, my Texas clay soil had 0 nitrogen and 0 phosphorus. I found a local farm fertilizer store and the only thing they had that as high in phosphorus was diammonium phosphate (DAP). That stuff did wonders for my yard. It is alkaline as well around 7.5 and has a low salt index so you really can't burn anything at normal rates. For me because of my PH, I usually mix half and half DAP with ammonium sulfate (AMS). At my store, DAP is $25 per 50lbs and AMS is $13 per 50lbs.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

I find mixing some gypsum in withe the sand is helpful on clay as well.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

Hello fellow North Carolinian. Where in NC are you located?

I agree with most of the above, it's really too late to do much except fertilize, I would skip a pre-emergent this year due to the possibility of root pruning and drop that in the spring (before the forsythias bloom).

With that said, hard soil typically needs some TLC. I find a layer of quality soil helps, but could bring weed seeds. I typically would only recommend this when the grass is actively growing. If you can get some certified compost you might consider spreading it mid-spring, a light top-dressing will do. You can also use other organics, like cracked corn and/or alfalfa pellets (feed stores/Tractor supply).

Another thing to consider, that you could do now, is to use a soil surfactant. You can buy these commercially, or just grab some baby shampoo and a hose-end sprayer and go to town.

I converted my entire lawn from bluegrass to bermuda this year (common and TifTuf). It took off this summer. My soil was similar to yours 3 years ago, but good organic practices (topdressing, shampooing and some organic fertilizers mixed in have resolved the issue).

I don't get too fancy with expensive products, I think most are marketing. You can buy cheap humic acid and combine that in the hose-end with baby shampoo.

I would consider aerating next summer when the grass is growing well and starting to spread. Now is too early.

Best of luck.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

I like to use flea and tick shampoo as a surfactant. added benefit of knocking down bug activity. I also agree with using some humic to help jumpstart the carbon cycle.


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## Wfrobinette (Feb 3, 2019)

Darth_V8r said:


> I like to use flea and tick shampoo as a surfactant. added benefit of knocking down bug activity. I also agree with using some humic to help jumpstart the carbon cycle.


I'm not a fan of indiscriminately apply pesticides as they kill many beneficial bugs too!

My hard as rock clay has softened over two years with year one application of humic acid, sand leveling, leaving clippings on the lawn and an over seed of ryegrass last winter.

I firmly believe the over seed and resulting die off in the spring added a tremendous amount of organic material into the soil. I've read some interesting things about soil improvement in farming using tiller radishes and think the over seed with a winter (crop) grass is accomplishing the same thing on a smaller scale.

I'm not saying the OP should do an over seed but those of you that have an established yard with hard and compacted soil. soil should consider it.


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## Ncfire11 (Jul 4, 2020)

Thanks for the replies, I'm just north east of Raleigh.

I have 3 "areas" in my yard. The road frontage is primarily grassy weeds but I've left it thus far since it looks better than bare grass. The front yard is the newly established Bermuda, looks decent but it's thin and the spots where crabgrass came up totally choked out the Bermuda. The back yard is still barren and I have cultivated it every month or so to keep weeds at bay.

I figured I'd hit the road frontage with glypho at some point and seed with Bermuda next Spring.

I want to plant Rye in the front and back to help the soil best I can, but I'm worried the Young Bermuda may be damaged by the rye. Any thoughts?

Any discussion on perennial vs annual rye? And will it die off by itself come spring or will I have to kill it.

Looking at the baby shampoo idea, I've seen pros and cons but I think the soil is in such bad shape an app of baby shampoo will do much more good than harm.

I'll throw some liquid and granular humic acid down this fall and wait til next summer to aerate.

Thanks!


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## cityofoaks (Sep 8, 2020)

Next year you can easily control the crabgrass with spring preemergent and push the bermuda with nitrogen over the summer to fill in any gaps.

I wouldn't recommend winter overseeding first year bermuda, it sets the bermuda back in the spring a little and you don't won't to be messing around trying to spray out rye grass during green up that first spring. The areas that are weeds and/or bare dirt you can throw rye on just to have something there over the winter no problem.


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## Ncfire11 (Jul 4, 2020)

Updated soil test came back, looks like the lime I put out about 6 months ago has done its job, and the PH is actually higher than I expected.

Rye planted in the bare areas and the weed areas were over seeded.

10-10-10 fert applied to Bermuda areas and baby shampoo applied from a hose end sprayer. We will see what happens.

Thanks


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## Ncfire11 (Jul 4, 2020)

Rye is coming up quickly in the bare areas I planted and I now officially have *something* growing everywhere in my yard.

So it looks like now is the time to start amending my soil for next year.

What is the best way to tackle the natural runoff ditches that have formed in my lawn? These areas are very compact and nothing came up here when I planted my grass. I want to level the entire lawn next year but these areas are considerably lower than the rest of the yard due to runoff. Sand/compost mixture and overseed with annual rye for now? Or just leave it alone? I've read thru the internet on the clay+sand="concrete" but answers seem to be pretty inconclusive with people recommending it and some saying to steer away.

I know typically when leveling you don't want to go too thick and choke out any areas of the lawn, but it's going to require 4-5 inches to get it leveled in these washouts.

I'm gonna hit it with humichar soon, and perhaps a top dressing of compost/topsoil.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Ncfire11 said:


> Rye is coming up quickly in the bare areas I planted and I now officially have *something* growing everywhere in my yard.
> 
> So it looks like now is the time to start amending my soil for next year.
> 
> ...


You will likely need to build it up and then put a few squares of sod down to anchor it. I had some compaction form felled trees. Filling with sand, the sand would just run off, and back to start. What finally did it was to build the areas back up and put scraps from zoysia sod down, and it anchored the dirt. preventing washout.

My experience is mixing sand and gypsum in with clay makes a great base for soil. I have never seen sand turn clay to concrete directly. I think the clay itself turns with our without the sand.


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## Ncfire11 (Jul 4, 2020)

Darth_V8r said:


> Ncfire11 said:
> 
> 
> > Rye is coming up quickly in the bare areas I planted and I now officially have *something* growing everywhere in my yard.
> ...


Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

For the areas that I'm going to Reno next year. Should I leave it alone for now or kill it off and oversees with rye?


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