# Help! New homeowner. My lawn is destroying my soul.



## stmarshall3017 (Aug 13, 2019)

Hi all. New to the forum. I'm a new homeowner, about a year and a half ago. The lawn was in terrible shape when I moved in; it hadn't been cared for in years. A lot of weeds, clovers, dandelions and dead patches. In the past 18months I've really been trying to improve it, taking advice from other homeowners and doing what I can. I've been following the Scotts 4-step system, I've over-seeded with Scotts Sun & Shade mix this spring and last fall, and I also aerated (manually) and thatched last fall as well. I know that these things take time - many years probably to improve drastically - but overall I am becoming frustrated because many of the areas are just so ugly, I have many dead patches, and some of the nice areas that I had put down topsoil and seed had grown in very nicely last year and this spring but completely died this summer in the heat. I attached a few pictures of the trouble spots. At this point I'm wondering if I need to spread lime or put a layer of topsoil or something to help the grass stay alive and consistent throughout the yard.

I'm starting to doubt my generic approach to my lawn and I wanted to ask the folks on here for advice on how to proceed. I know you can get cheap do-it-yourself soil tests online, but I wouldn't know what to do with the results. I was also hoping that you guys might be able to identify what might be going on in my lawn, if any of the things that I'm currently doing are wrong or working against me, and maybe recommend a good soil test and give me an idea of what to do based on the results.

Sorry for being long-winded, and thanks in advance.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

@stmarshall3017, Your post is now in the cool season forum. Welcome to TLF!


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## Ryan1+2 (Oct 16, 2018)

Welcome to TLF. I would start by reading this....
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1595
The nice thing is with a small yard things will be much easier to manage and it won't cost a lot to buy good quality seed.


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

You can do this.

I was in the same boat for a few years before I got on track. What will help you most in the long run is putting down a pre-emergent herbicide in the spring to prevent the crabgrass and what I think is foxtail in your yard. This will stop the cycle and allow for easy overseeding every fall.

That said, you don't need to wait a year to get the lawn in good shape. If I were you I would scalp the lawn low in a few weeks and bag your clippings if you can. Rake the whole yard and get rid of the debris. Overseed and roll it if you can (home depot rents lawn rollers cheap) Schedule a landscaper to apply an application of quinclorac/MSO the same day you overseed with TTTF or get a backspayer and do it yourself. There are videos on youtube on how to calibrate a sprayer.

Other option- hire someone to overseed and take care of the weeds this fall, then take over in the spring and get your pre-emergent down. Might help while you read up on lawn care to have someone get you off to a good start.

Soil tests are only about $15 and will tell you a lot about what nutrients you need and if you need to adjust your PH. We can help you decipher your results. http://ccedutchess.org/agriculture/soil-testing

Best of luck!
Jesse


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## Mattsbay_18 (Aug 3, 2018)

Personally, with your size of lot, I would do a complete reno. Get yourself a nice seed blend and make sure your irrigation is set up to keep your seed moist while your new lush lawn establishes. There are great lawn renovation journals on this forum to help with your journey should you choose this route.


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## beardizzle1 (Jun 13, 2019)

Mattsbay_18 said:


> Personally, with your size of lot, I would do a complete reno. Get yourself a nice seed blend and make sure your irrigation is set up to keep your seed moist while your new lush lawn establishes. There are great lawn renovation journals on this forum to help with your journey should you choose this route.


I would refrain from doing this just yet. Tackle the basics first. Get a Pre-M down next year in the spring and get used to how often and how much you should throw down in regards to fert.

If you just nuke it and seed then you're still going to get crabgrass next year with no Pre-M. Then if you don't know how to dial in feet's and what kind to use you risk burning it.


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## Vtx531 (Jul 1, 2019)

Looks like crabgrass is taking over. When did you apply the Scotts Step 1? Doesn't look like the step 1 worked.

How often do you mow? I think it would look 10x better if it was just mowed and the weeds and grass were even.

It will look a lot better in Sept/oct. You will be surprised dont get discouraged yet. A lawn is a living thing. It will go through changes (constantly) and if you don't think it looks good now just know that it will look better in time...

Stick with your plan this year. Lime isn't your problem. Definitely don't spread top soil. That is not your problem and could actually cause more problems.

You could try pulling the crabgrass if you want something to do. I would start along the edges. It will leave bare spots that will fill in later. Your edges will look better in the meantime without crabgrass hanging over the pavement.


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## stmarshall3017 (Aug 13, 2019)

Hi all, thanks for all of the replies! This is great. My yard is small and manageable, yes. Back yard is about 3x bigger than the front. Less than 5k sq ft of lawn so the cost to seed and fertilize has been reasonable. I took the pictures before I cut the lawn so that the ugly grass was more identifiable. Definitely looks better after a cut/trim. I mow once a week. I just did an old leftover soil test and my PH is neutral. I ordered a better test kit from Amazon so we'll see in a couple of weeks what the rest of the chemistry looks like.

So I never did the Scotts Step 1 crabgrass preventer in the spring - I chose to over seed and patch bare spots instead, and I didnt want the halt preventer to interfere with the new seed. Based off of the advice above and the reading referenced above, sounds like this was a mistake that got me off to a bad start this year. Is the grass along the street/edge of the yard in the photo crab grass? I always thought crab grass had the wide oval-shaped leaves with spikes. The ugly grass in the picture is all throughout my yard. Will the bad grass disappear over time or is pulling it out the only way to eliminate it?

What do you think of the dead spots? These spots were all areas that were previously dead/bare, I put down Scotts top soil and Scotts seed, grew in real nice last fall and this spring, but then these areas in particular died first when it got real hot and sunny this summer.

So based on the advice above and also the lawn fundamentals reading referenced above that I went though, it sounds like I should plan to over seed in the fall, put down some nitrogen fertilizer to just help the new seed grow fast and strong. Do I have this wrong? When is the right time to seed? What type of fertilizer should I use? Should I do Scotts weed-and-feed which is Step 3, I believe? Or should I skip the weed killer and only put down something like Scotts New Lawn food (24% nitrogen, no weed killer). If I put down a double-dose of seed will that help or just waste money? Should I bother aerating/thatching or was that probably a waste last year too?

Sorry for all of the questions but at this point it's clear that going it alone has resulted in some costly choices. Thanks again for the help.


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

That does appear to be a crap ton of crab grass..... It will die a first frost, but will leave large bare patches based on the amount I am seeing..


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## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

Spring seeding is difficult as you just learned. Much of the young grass just dies in the summer heat. While the above options are great, a quick and simple fix for the bare spots and your soul would be to lay one or two strips of sod just along the roadway now and kill the weeds this fall for small jolt of near-instant gratification. Prevent the crabgrass with pre-emergent next spring (so no spring seeding) and reassess your lawn in late spring. If you are soul-destroying stressed, break it into manageable chunks and take it step by step. You will get there, make it a journey and enjoy the view along the way. Fair warning though (from an "anything green is better than dirt and dead weeds" misguided viewpoint), if you kill the crabgrass now or prevent it in the spring, it is going to look worse for a short time before it starts to look better.


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## Khy (Jul 27, 2018)

This is going to be a bit lengthy so early warning...

Looking at the photos you have a bunch of stuff going on here, there's a lot of crabgrass, some fungus and a bunch of random grasses. I'd recommend against the suggestion above to do a full renovation. As you should really learn proper lawn care cultural practices FIRST this way when you go for a reno you have the knowledge and experience to handle things as they come and don't waste time and money trying to do it right out the gate.

So here's a few things first...

1. Do you have irrigation? If you do, what are the settings on your system (i.e. how often are you watering and for how long)? If you don't, it's not a huge deal as this plot of land isn't too big so it's a fairly easy thing to irrigate with a hose or two and some moveable sprinklers.

2. I personally wouldn't bother with killing off all the crabgrass and weeds, you're in like central NY up near Poughkeepsie which means most of these weeds will die off via nature in a month or two anyway and there's no sense in putting all those chemicals on the lawn right now for basically no reason. Most of the chemicals you'd be putting out right now to control your crabgrass and such would also delay your ability to seed for 7-14 days at which point it's really just too late to seed.

3. Going off point 2, while you should get a soil test, there's not much of a reason to do it now imo. By the time you get the kit from your county office or an online lab, collect the sample, mail it in and get the results back you'll basically be putting your mower away and priming your snow blower. Instead I'd try to get out on that first nice day in late Winter/spring around Feb/March you know that random day we always get in the NE where it's for some reason 75 in February? Get your testing kit, figure out how to collect the soil and go out during that day, collect your sample and send it out. This way, by the time April swings around and you're ready to get out and start the lawn up for Spring you have your test back and know where to go from there to amend the soil.

With those things out of the way, what can you do right now?

1. Go buy seed. Up in your area your choices are basically going to be Kentucky Bluegrass (KBG), Turf Type Tall Fescue (TTTF), Perennial Rye Grass (PRG). If you have irrigation, you'd probably prefer KBG as it's a nicer looking grass and it spreads over time and will fill in any patches that die. If you don't have irrigation however, bear in mind, it's going to burn out in the summer months and will basically be brown or hazy from June to August. If you want instead to have a lawn that is green from March/April til October/Nov, go with TTTF. TTTF doesn't spread but in general it requires less water, less fertilizer and less mowing to keep it looking nice. But if you get fungus or insect damage in an area, that area is dead forever, you'll have to reseed to fix the bald spot where as KBG will fill in over time.

As to where to get your seed, honestly, it doesn't matter a ton... if you just want something that looks okay you can just go grab a bag of Scotts or Pennington at your local hardware store. That said, bear in mind those are low quality grass cultivars and as a result tend to be more susceptible to things like fungus, insect damage, drought stress etc. if you do a little research you might be able to find a local sod farm or something that sells a higher quality grass seed and you'd often be shocked at the cost. Just as an example, a 20LB bag of Scotts Tall Fescue mix costs about $54 from HD. I have a place about 30 minutes from me who sells their own Fescue blend with 3 cultivars that are all in the top 5 NTEP trials (the grass cultivar ratings) for my area and the 25LB bag cost me $65. So 5LB more and $10 more and I went from random nonsense of Scotts to really high end cultivars. This option might take a little Googling around, there's also the Hometown Discussion boards here and you can go into the NY thread and ask in there someone may know a company in your area for this option and it is definitely the better option if you're willing to do some research.

2. Following up on point #1, you want to get your seed down ASAP, sometime within the next 7-10 days tops. Your area has it's first frost usually late October. So that gives you two months to seed, establish the new turf and get a few mows on it before the frost hits. Now, what do we do about the giant border of crabgrass? You have a few options, one would be no chemicals, just pull out your weed eater and scalp that entire area straight to the dirt when you seed and let it die off over time, the issue is if it's still hot the crabgrass may continue to grow and make it tough to establish seed in the area. The better option probably is going to be doing a 'minor reno' in this area. Just get some glyphosate (can be round up or the HD brand... just make sure the only active ingredient is Glyphosate). Mix it to the label instructions and spray that border of crabgrass, after two or three days scalp it down with your weed eater and throw your seed down. The crabgrass will have absorbed the glypho by then and it'll just let you get your seed out faster. This will prevent the crabgrass from eating up all the water and sunlight in that border and help you get some more established grass.

3. After you have seed down, you need to keep the seed moist... not wet but moist. If you have irrigation, you want to set it to go off for like 5 minutes or so every 2-3 hours until you seed seedlings actually sprouting in your bare spots. From there you can start to scale up the timing and back the interval (say water for 10 minutes but every 4 hours then 15 minutes for every 8 hours etc). If you don't have irrigation? You're going to need a little hope for some nice rain, hopefully not massive washout storm and you'll have to irrigate in the morning and when yo uget home from work. You might have to wake up for work like 10 minutes early and go put the sprinkler out on the lawn and let it run while you're hoping in the shower and getting ready then turn it off before you leave. When you get home, immediately turn it back on for 5-10 minutes and then check to see how dry it's getting. There are a few things you can do to help if you don't have irrigation, one being peat moss, for your sized yard you probably only need 2-3 packs of Peat Moss and they're pretty cheap, I think like I paid like $12 after tax for 3cu ft last year. You want to spread this after you put your seed out and it will just help to retain some moisture. Beware, you'll have to spread this by hand, you're not trying to bury the seed just give it a light dusting so the seed is like 1/8-1/4" covered in peat. The other option is to just go around and give a nice hand raking with a metal rake after you've dropped your seed just so it gets under a little bit of soil.

4. After you've done all of the above, the next thing to do is just wait... keep watering and wait. Being that we don't have a soil test we're not sure if you need to raise or lower your pH so we'll mostly have to hope it's not terribly off, you can't be throwing lime down without knowing as your pH could be perfect and then you mess it up doing that. I'd personally wait until you have done your first mow (usually after the new grass seedlings are at 2-3" height for KBG or 3-4" for TTTF) and then I'd throw out a balanced fertilizer. My personal favorite would be the Lesco 18-24-12 however they only sell it in a 50LB bag and that will last you like a decade so I'd just go with a small bag of whatever Scotts product they have at HD or Lowes, just look for starter fertilizer and make sure the macro numbers are somewhat balanced (i.e. don't get like a 24-0-3 or something). At worst you can get the 10-10-10 and throw that down every store will carry that. I'd say wait until after your first mow to fertilizer simply because you have a lot of weeds and random grasses and we don't want to pump them full of nitrogen and have crabgrass growing an insane amount while you're trying to establish new seed. So after that first mow, throw out the fertilizer, I'd say do 0.50LB/N per 1000. What that means is take that first number in the XX-XX-XX so say you got the Scotts Starter food for New Grass. It's a 24-25-4, take the 24 (first number). You'd do 0.24*2 = 0.48 which is LBs. So if you put 2 pounds of that product spread across 1000 sqft, you'd put half a pound of nitrogen per thousand (or 0.50LB/n per 1000). So I'd put that out after the first mow and then I'd do another round of it after the second mow. If you go for example with the 10-10-10 it'd be 0.10 * 5 = 0.50 LB so you'd spread 5LBs over 1000 sqft. It doesn't have to be exact but a good ballpark of the size of your yard is important for fert.

From there, you just keep mowing it and watering it, by the time you're done with your second mow you should be watering like every 2-3 days tops, probably more like every 4-5 days in your area because it'll be really cool by then, so one deep watering every 5 days or so should keep the grass good to go for water. And once you stop seeing top growth, it means winter is coming and put the mower away and then start off next year with that early soil test. You'll also want to get out in late March/early April and apply some pre-emergent... this will be the most important thing you do next year. It's best to get yourself a sprayer and spray prodiamine but if you opt for granular that's fine too, just be careful when spreading around the edges, you want to make sure you get a nice even spread. The pre-emergent if applied correctly will basically keep you from having any weed issues going into next spring/summer and should help with further establishment of the new turf (especially if you go with KBG as you can pump some N into it in the spring and help push that growth and spreading).

Sorry that got a bit lengthy, but hopefully that sets you up a bit. It sounds like a lot but really at the end of the day it's... throw seed down, water seed, wait til it grows, cut grass. It's just important that you get seed out ASAP and get it growing now so you can start mowing it... mowing is the key to thick grass, mow often in the spring and fall and your lawn will thicken up nicely.


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## erickdaniels (Jun 29, 2018)

@stmarshall3017 YOU GOT THIS! 👊

Tons of great advice and info on this forum. Don't be afraid to ask anything. There are no dumb questions. Just wait until the neighbors start complimenting your yard!


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## Khy (Jul 27, 2018)

erickdaniels said:


> Just wait until the neighbors start complimenting your yard!


Facts right here... all year. Out mowing in April?



> Wow, it's so green, nobody else has a lawn green yet, how?


Out mowing in June?



> I walk my dog around this neighborhood every day and you're the only lawn without a single piece of crabgrass


Out doing my dethatch in mid-August



> WHAT DID YOU DO TO YOUR LAWN, WHY IS IT COVERED IN DEAD BROWN STUFF?


Out mowing in mid-September



> I have no idea what the hell you were doing a month ago with all that dead brown stuff, but man, it looks great now!


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## stmarshall3017 (Aug 13, 2019)

Hey all, thanks again for the additional advice, and thanks to Khy for the awesome detail.

Sounds like I have a relatively simple plan ahead for the remainder of this year. I'll go get some grass seed and put it down this weekend. I might take the time and hand-pull some of the crabgrass at the border to avoid bald spots in the fall/winter and fill it with new grass this season, at least along the border of the road where it's 100% crab grass now. I had always seeded with KBG, but maybe I should try TTTF this time (or can I mix it to get the advantages of both?) I do not have irrigation. I have a cheap circulating sprinkler attached to a hose, one in the front, one in the back. The water reaches the entire front yard. I'll probably be doing the before-work-after-work sschedule you suggested. So i'll mow the lawn before I seed, and then give the yard, what, a week or more before I mow again? I'd imagine it would be more than a week before the new grass is 3-4" tall... I don't want to cut it too early, right? I'll wait to fertilize until after the 1st mow, and then fertilize again a week later after the 2nd mow? Probably going to use the Scotts Starter Food for new grass. I'll back off on the watering like you suggested after the 2nd mow, and that'll take me right to the end of the season. I'm not ignorantly ignoring your suggestion to use other/better seed & fertilizer, but I want this whole effort to be relatively accessible in the long-term and I have Lowes and HD real close to me. Anything wrong with this overall plan??


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## stmarshall3017 (Aug 13, 2019)

Oh, when I'm seeding the bald spots, should I add a little top soil with the seeds?


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## Khy (Jul 27, 2018)

> I had always seeded with KBG, but maybe I should try TTTF this time (or can I mix it to get the advantages of both?)


They can definitely be mixed, the only issue w/ mixing KBG and TTTF is that you kind of need to cut in between the two desired heights for each unless you have extremely high end cultivars. So you'll usually be mowing like... 3" or so most of the season. If you try to go up to 4" where TTTF wants to be the KBG will usually lay over and start to mat and if you try to go down to 2-2.5" where KBG wants to be the TTTF will usually struggle a little. It has a nice sweet spot there around 3" though when you mix them and it usually does look really good. Most "Cool season" mixes you're going to find will have both in the mix.

One thing though, if you go buy a bag of "cool season mix" just look at the guaranteed analysis on the bag. Some mixes (they're usually labeled as contractor mix but not always) will wind up being like 40% annual rye grass, which will sprout really fast and look absolutely stunning... until winter hits and it dies and annual rye won't come back, so come spring you'll be really confused as to where your amazing fall lawn went. Make sure it's just TTTF and KBG. Not fine fescue (might be labeled Chewings Red Fescue, this is a nono unless you're under a ton of shade) or rye (although a little perennial rye won't hurt just not annual).



> So i'll mow the lawn before I seed, and then give the yard, what, a week or more before I mow again? I'd imagine it would be more than a week before the new grass is 3-4" tall... I don't want to cut it too early, right? I'll wait to fertilize until after the 1st mow, and then fertilize again a week later after the 2nd mow?


It's going to be tough to mow once your seed is down. Because likely your grass will be wet at all times of the day. You have to be careful because if any of the seed has germinated, you don't want to be walking and rolling a heavy mower across it when it's that young. That said, it's going to take like 7-10 days minimum (maybe a bit longer because of how your watering schedule will be) to germinate those seeds and another 7-10 days before they're ready for their first mow. You have two options... the safe option is to just wait until you see the new grass blades standing tall and looking tall enough that they're ready for a mow. Ideally once you pull the crabgrass you'll have some bare spots on the sides that you can observe daily without walking over the lawn (don't walk over the lawn until it's time to mow). So monitor those blades that start coming up they'll be really thin initially, once those are up into that 3" area is when you can mow. Your existing grass will likely be in the 4-5" range by then so you'll be partially scalping the existing turf to cut back into that 2.5-3" area. Make sure you bag the first few mows too, you don't want to leave clumps of grass that will suffocate the young seedlings.

The risky play is say you cut down to 2" the day of your seeding and 6 days later you see none of your seed has begun to germinate yet, the soil is still mostly 'moist' and the existing turf is back to like 4" you can take the risk of doing another cut on it with the bag on... in theory with the watering and such the seed shouldn't be loose enough to be picked up by your mower. The risk here is if you have seed that has germinated you run the risk of killing it in areas that you haven't observed. So most people just wait it out.



> I'm not ignorantly ignoring your suggestion to use other/better seed & fertilizer, but I want this whole effort to be relatively accessible in the long-term and I have Lowes and HD real close to me. Anything wrong with this overall plan??


Nope not at all, there are plenty of people who have beautiful lawns that are seeded w/ Scotts or Pennington seed sold at HD or Lowe's. If you wanted to get like a 'slightly' better cultivar and you have any local garden centers around you can call and see if they carry Johnathan Green Black Beauty. It's far from the elite cultivars you'll see people on here discussing but it's definitely better than the stuff you'll buy at HD or Lowes. One thing, don't buy any of that coated seed Scotts calls it Water Smart, you'll notice if you look at the label that like 50% of the bag contents is the powder coating. The coating mostly does nothing and you end up spreading a lot less seed. I believe Viggoro has seed at HD that doesn't have the coating and I know at my local one on occasion they'll have a Lesco seed.

So the checklist for seed

- No Chewings Red Fescue
- No Fine Fescue
- No Annual Rye
- If possible, avoid seed coatings.

If you're going straight TTTF you'll want around 6-8 LB/1000sqft. If it's a KBG/TTTF mix you can probably go down to 4-6LB/1000.



> Oh, when I'm seeding the bald spots, should I add a little top soil with the seeds?


I prefer peat moss personally, if you add top soil in random spots, those spots are likely going to be more healthy than the other areas because the soil is more rich. Peat will keep your seed moist and for your small plot of land wouldn't be expensive to spread across the entire yard. It's like $12/3cu feet or so and all you really want is just a dusting after you've put the seed out. If you look on Youtube you'll find videos of Allyn Hane (LCN) and Ryan Knorr and others spreading Peat... it's messy but effective. The best part of it is that it turns a light brown when it's dry and a deep dark brown when went so it makes it easy to also see if your sprinkler is missing a spot or something too.


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## stmarshall3017 (Aug 13, 2019)

Great, thanks again. Just want to clarify one last piece, the fertilizing. I'll fertilize after the 1st mow, for sure. And you're saying to fertilize again, after the 2nd mow (a week or so later)? Any more fertilizing the rest of the season?


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## stmarshall3017 (Aug 13, 2019)

I got my soil analysis back. Was wondering if you guys could recommend fertilizers in the 21-0-0 and 0-0-60 ranges that are suggested in the analysis. Or let me know if you have a different suggestion. I'm having a hard time attaching the soil report for some reason. Results were:

Nitrogen 5.66ppm LOW (Optimal is 8-16ppm)
Phosphorus 16.67ppm HIGH (Optimal is 4-10ppm)
Potassium 19.42ppm LOW (Optimal is 30-55ppm)

I also spent time last weekend and hand-pulled all of the crab grass along the road edge of my yard, about 2-3ft in from the road. Plenty more in the rest of the yard but I was hoping that by pulling the crabgrass there, I'd at least be successful getting good grass to grow there this fall, and minimize the bare spots next spring from the dead crabgrass.


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

@stmarshall3017 What is your pH?
Nitrogen will always be low. On your picture, there is a defined line, where nothing grows... Did you check with a long screwdriver what is under. Some drain pipe of sort?

I wouldn't put any fertilizer while seeding. A week after germination you can start feeding with a X-0-X (zero P) stuff.
Hopefully new grass will eat the P excess.


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## stmarshall3017 (Aug 13, 2019)

My pH is 6.93ppm (optimal is 6-7ppm)

I think the problem with that area is that it's close to the road so there was a lot of gravel and crap mixed in the soil. dug and raked it out last year, added some new topsoil and planted grass with success last fall and it grew back nicely this spring. But in the summer heat it died and hasn't come back. Really dissabpointing. I also think I MAY have burned that area a little with weed and feed by accident in May. I noticed a brown stripe after that application. I'm going to rake, soil and reseed this area in the next week or so, and expect the grass to grow back again. But I'm concerned about how to keep it alive moving forward.


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## MDJoe (Sep 16, 2019)

> I prefer peat moss personally, if you add top soil in random spots, those spots are likely going to be more healthy than the other areas because the soil is more rich. Peat will keep your seed moist and for your small plot of land wouldn't be expensive to spread across the entire yard. It's like $12/3cu feet or so and all you really want is just a dusting after you've put the seed out. If you look on Youtube you'll find videos of Allyn Hane (LCN) and Ryan Knorr and others spreading Peat... it's messy but effective. The best part of it is that it turns a light brown when it's dry and a deep dark brown when went so it makes it easy to also see if your sprinkler is missing a spot or something too.


I'm surprised everyone recommends Peat Moss. I find that it gets so horribly hydrophobic you can't get it re-wetted.


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