# Just bought seed - bag tag seems to be old - problem?



## PA Lawn Guy (Jul 2, 2018)

Bought some Barenbrug Turf Blue HGT. Not sure how to add a picture from my phone, but the test date was 10/16 and the sell-by date for a bunch of states including mine (PA) says 1/18. Seller is in Iowa and I don't see any restrictions on IA, but I'm not sure how that works with interstate commerce.

Is this going to be a problem? Should I ask the seller to send me seed that hasn't expired? I don't want to drop $200 on good seed that is too old to germinate well...

Thanks for your help and opinions.


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## PA Lawn Guy (Jul 2, 2018)




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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

I would call them and complain. The agreement was you pay $200+ for 50 lbs of seed. Not 50 lbs of expired seed! I assume they did not disclose the expiration date or the fact that the product expired, is that correct?

If so they should fix this or refund you a portion of the purchase price, if you are comfortable with that. If they don't I would call your credit card company and complain. See if they can stop payment or comp you for the bad transaction.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

Seed that is a couple years old germinates better than new seed. Consider yourself lucky &#128077;&#127995;


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Some seed doesn't have a sell by date on the label.

Also, after retesting, new labels are put on, assuming it still tests ok. 2 years is probably ok, but I would probably bring it with the seller to see what they say.

I had 5 year old seed fail to germinate last year.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

There is a Federal Seed Act as well as something else I found that speaks to regulations on grass seed as noted below in bold.

*2. REGULATORY REQUIREMENTS (This is from Better Seed)
Federal and state seed laws require that lawn seed be properly labeled and meet the guarantees on the label. Initially, these requirements are the responsibility of the seed packager or labeler as the product enters commerce. However, once in the store or warehouse, the responsibility for the seed generally shifts to the retailer.
State seed control agencies may enter retail businesses to inspect grass seed labels and pull samples to check for problem weed seeds, purity and % germination. If the label does not comply with the state or federal seed laws, the seed inspector will issue a "stop-sale order" that prohibits the sale of the problem seed product. The seed cannot be sold or shipped by the retailer until the label has been corrected and the stop-sale order has been lifted by the state agency.
The seed inspector may also study the seed label to determine when the seed was last tested to make certain that the seed has not exceeded the maximum period of time allowed by state and federal laws between germination tests. If the test date found on the label is older than the law permits, the test date has "expired" and seed lot will be placed under a "stop-sale order" until the seed is re-tested and relabeled. An "expired test date" does not mean that the seed is dead or that it will not germinate or grow. An "expired test date" only means that the germination must be re-tested by the seed packager and be relabeled to show the current germination and new test date. Procedures for handling "stop-sale orders" are covered in more detail in the last section of this guide entitled, "Working with State Seed Control Agencies."*

This is from Better Seed and is titled "Retailers Guide for Proper Handling and Storage of Lawn Seed Products"

Take from it what you will. I would call and have some information ready for them.


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## PA Lawn Guy (Jul 2, 2018)

Turfguy93 said:


> Seed that is a couple years old germinates better than new seed. Consider yourself lucky 👍🏻


Are you certain? That goes against what I have read, and seems illogical given "sell by" expiration dates are listed on the tag...?

Not trying to be argumentative - just wondering what your claim is based on (Ag or University research?). Thanks.


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## PA Lawn Guy (Jul 2, 2018)

Green said:


> Some seed doesn't have a sell by date on the label.
> 
> Also, after retesting, new labels are put on, assuming it still tests ok. 2 years is probably ok, but I would probably bring it with the seller to see what they say.
> 
> I had 5 year old seed fail to germinate last year.


I forgot to mention, there are two tags stapled together. I only posted the most recent version. The older one had an earlier test date (earlier in 2016) and earlier expiration date (2017).


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## PA Lawn Guy (Jul 2, 2018)

Thanks everyone - I will reach out tomorrow and see what they say.


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## Turfguy93 (Aug 30, 2017)

PA Lawn Guy said:


> Turfguy93 said:
> 
> 
> > Seed that is a couple years old germinates better than new seed. Consider yourself lucky 👍🏻
> ...


About 3 weeks ago i used 3 year old seed and had full germination in about 7 days granted it was ryegrass but I still believe it reins true for every grass type


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Turfguy93 said:


> Seed that is a couple years old germinates better than new seed. Consider yourself lucky 👍🏻


If it is kept in the right conditions yes. Buyer doesn't know the storage conditions of this seed for the previous 3 years.


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## Tsmith (Aug 11, 2017)

I would also complain as germination rate drops the longer seed sits around and regardless of what they may say you have no way of knowing how they stored it.

That's a lot of money to pay for seed that's been sitting around for two years but my guess is they offer partial refund because there is no way they want to pay for return shipping.


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## PA Lawn Guy (Jul 2, 2018)

Jconnelly6b said:


> Turfguy93 said:
> 
> 
> > Seed that is a couple years old germinates better than new seed. Consider yourself lucky 👍🏻
> ...


Just curiosity - what are the "right conditions" for germination to get better as seed gets older?

As for this seed - I can ask, but my educated guess is that it's been sitting on a rack in a non-climate-controlled warehouse in Iowa. Would that be relatively "good" or "bad" for conditions?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Yeah, they should either give you another updated label or make a concession on price, since it said sell by Jan 2018 and we are past 6 months after that. They should do this without you having to specifically ask, once you give them the details...

If they say seed is good a year after the date, tell them you agree, and then tell them the dates on the first label.

This is 2016 crop seed...that's nearly 2 years ago.

If they still say it's still good, make the case that you would like an updated test and label, as it's required by law.

If they say they can't, ask if a partial refund is appropriate. Or a full return. Or "Is there anything that you CAN do for me in this case?". Or some other similar question. Anything appropriate to keep the train of thought going.

If they hang up on you, we know who not to buy from again! Same if they say "No, sorry, but is there anything else I can help with?" Maybe a manager...?

Hopefully it won't come to that. Good luck!


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

@PA Lawn Guy generally cool, dry, away from direct sunlight.

I keep mine in my basement in my workshop.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Let us know what the company says when you call them! It really speaks volumes about the company if they don't fix their own screw-up!


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## PA Lawn Guy (Jul 2, 2018)

Quick update - seller was very helpful and everything is good here. Seed was retested in 1/18 and the updated tag just wasn't put on this particular bag for some reason. Got the updated tag via text and a nice conversation describing germ testing and how tagging rates are selected. Actual germ from the test is likely 90%+, but the tags are listed with a minimum-germination level for a cushion if an inspector pulls and tests seed versus the tag claim.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

Excellent news! Throw'er down!


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

I just throwerdown the same seed from the same seller with the same old tag tonight. Reseeding my driveway strip. If you're willing to wait 7-10 days I can let you know how it germinates


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## maynardGkeynes (May 23, 2017)

As a control, place a some seeds in a sealed plastic bad with a damp piece if paper towel, just to make sure the seed is good. This way, if there is poor germination, you can eliminate poor seed as the cause. It sounds like your seed is new anyway, but those times when germination poor, it's good to eliminate that issue.


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## PA Lawn Guy (Jul 2, 2018)

No, the seed is definitely not new (no newer than 2016) - just has been retested for germ recently enough to not be a major concern.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Excellent germination at day 7.


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