# Need a confidence boost? My after pics look worse than before.



## NewEnglander (Aug 20, 2018)

Hi guys, still new here but wanted to share this. Popping out of dormancy this spring, my lawn was looking pretty good. I put a lot of time, effort, and money into it this year. Irrigation was the biggest install, which I was psyched about.

Now, six months later, I think my lawn looks worse than it ever has.

I got pretty discouraged around July when the heat picked up and things went south, but now I can't help but laugh a little. All part of learning.

Anyway, I have a pretty bad Poa Trivialis or creeping bentgrass problem from what I can tell.

I just aerated, overseeded with 4th millenium and dressed with peat on Monday. Watering a few minutes every hour right now hoping it will bounce back.

If I run into the same thing next summer, I'm doing a full rehab.

I'm kind of scratching my head where I went wrong. I was watering about 1" a week, but daily. I put down grub preventer and milo exclusively. The real turn was in July when it got really hot. Maybe I'm actually not watering enough, or too much?

My theory is I was mowing trivialis/creeping bent tall (4"), and I started to notice it wouldn't stand back up after the Toro lawn striper. It kept growing, but sideways. It made like a mat, and with the heat and moisture, I think I got some kind of fungus.

Could poa or creeping bent really look this good in spring, then turn into this disaster?

Truthfully, I have no idea what happened.

Willing to take any advice, but figured the world should see this for a confidence boost. All in this year, I've dumped about $6K into the lawn, and this is what I got. That includes the irrigation setup, which was a large chunk.

Thanks for reading!

Late May 2018


August 2018


Plow damage, and a few weeks later with the fix in May


Same spot as plow damage, August 2018


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

I don't know what happened either, but it sure looked pretty good in May.

A couple of thoughts, especially considering that you have at least some fescue
1 inch per week might not be enough during the hottest periods of summer
Don't water daily
Skip the Milo during the summer. You want to avoid stressing the grass during the summer. Mowing and watering (when needed) is about all that you want to do outside of weed control.
Alter your mowing patterns so that you are standing the grass up and laying it down in different directions every other week or so.
You could probably cut shorter if you are feeling adventurous. That might help with potential fungus, but you may need to water more (not an easy decision).


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## NewEnglander (Aug 20, 2018)

Thanks for your feedback. I'm OK with watering as much as needed. I pretty much went off the irrigation guy's suggestion of 15 minutes a day, but that didn't pan out.

Your insight is very much appreciated!


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

NewEnglander said:


> Hi guys, still new here but wanted to share this. Popping out of dormancy this spring, my lawn was looking pretty good.


First off, welcome to forum!  Your lawn did look awesome in those May photos! You'll be able to get back to that again...



NewEnglander said:


> I got pretty discouraged around July when the heat picked up and things went south...


Late July and August this year in NH have been really tough on lawns. Getting cool season lawns through late July and August is just about survival. The right maintenance practices make a huge difference.



NewEnglander said:


> I'm kind of scratching my head where I went wrong. I was watering about 1" a week, but daily. I put down grub preventer and milo exclusively. The real turn was in July when it got really hot. Maybe I'm actually not watering enough, or too much?


I think changing your watering practices will make a big difference. Your grass probably developed relatively shallow roots from the daily watering. When the sustained heat hit in August, followed by a hot, dry spell, your lawn was set up for trouble.

A more successful watering strategy is "deep and infrequent." Given that your grass is accustomed to daily watering, you can't switch over to that style immediately (well, you might be able to get away with it, now that the heat is breaking), but the goal is to extend watering intervals, yet watering more deeply (for a longer time). In my sandy soil, I've managed to extend watering to every 4th day, with just over 1/2" of water delivered in each watering.

In other words, if you've been delivering 1" of water each week, instead of delivering 1/7" of an inch each day, you'd be better off delivering about 1/2" of water every 3-4 days instead.

If you haven't actually measured the amount of water delivered by your irrigation system, you should do so. Tuna cans or lots of water catch-cups will show how much water is delivered by the duration you're watering. Most folks aren't delivering as much water as they think.



NewEnglander said:


> ... with the heat and moisture, I think I got some kind of fungus.


Heat and frequent watering are a recipe for lawn diseases. Less frequent watering will help a lot with that, too!

I also speculate that some of your issue may be that PRG doesn't tolerate heat well. This summer has been unusually warm for NH, but if there was a lot of PRG in your lawn mix, some of the brown may just be the PRG dying off in the extended high temps we've had here. There isn't much you can do about that other than reseed, or replace the PRG with other grass types.


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## NewEnglander (Aug 20, 2018)

Thanks! How long does it take you to get a 1/2 inch down? I measured once, and got 1/4" in an hour from the rotors. Do I really need to go for a 2 hour interval for 1/2"? Seems crazy to me but if that's the right way I'll try it!

I'm hoping I can slowly crowd this stuff out with fescue, but not sure if it's even possible.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

NewEnglander said:


> Thanks! How long does it take you to get a 1/2 inch down? I measured once, and got 1/4" in an hour from the rotors. Do I really need to go for a 2 hour interval for 1/2"? Seems crazy to me but if that's the right way I'll try it!


 Time to apply 1/2" of water varies in a major way between different sprinkler rotors, nozzle sizes, density of rotors in the lawn, size of arcs, water pressure, etc. As a result, how long it takes at my house is kind of irrelevant for your house, other than as a sanity check. I have significant variation from zone to zone. Some zones apply 1/2" of water in as little as 45 minutes; others take as long as 105 minutes.

I have my "standard watering program" set up to deliver approximately 1/4" of water to each zone. It takes about 3.5 hours to complete for our 7 lawn zones. On "watering nights" (which are every 4th day for me if there's no natural rainfall), it runs twice, once at 12:15am, and again at 4:15am. The reason for splitting it up into two waterings of 1/4" each is so that there's more time for the water to soak in for each zone. (This helps reduce runoff.) I have about a half hour gap between the two runs of the program to give the well a little bit of time to recover. Yes, it takes our irrigation system about 8 hours to deliver 1/2" of water over the entire lawn.



NewEnglander said:


> I'm hoping I can slowly crowd this stuff out with fescue, but not sure if it's even possible.


In regard to the concept of just crowding out the undesireable grass, my vote is for "not even possible." You may be able to provide conditions which favor the desirable grass, but that will just slow down the spread of the undesirable grass, rather than push it towards elimination.


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## probasestealer (Apr 19, 2018)

NewEnglander said:


> Thanks for your feedback. I'm OK with watering as much as needed. I pretty much went off the irrigation guy's suggestion of 15 minutes a day, but that didn't pan out.
> 
> Your insight is very much appreciated!


I'm sorry you received this advice, the "professionals" sometimes let us down.

You've received excellent advise above


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Most people are surprised at how long it takes to get that much water down. They feel like they are going to drown their lawn. This couldn't be further from the truth.

I have a manual system, using two orbit gear drive sprinklers in my backyard (approx. 1700sf). It takes 4 hours to put down a full inch. In the front, where I only use one sprinkler, it take about 2 hours (about 800 sf).

I can't believe an irrigation professional would tell someone to water for 15 minutes every day. That's absurd!

I think you have been given excellent advice. I would also suggest a soil test, if you haven't done one.

Good luck!


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## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

Good advice above, I only have a couple things to add. Core aeration is the best way to spread Poa trivialis. Three apps of Tenacity 7 days apart will kill bent grass and three apps of Roundup 7 days apart (preferably in spring) will significantly reduce Poa t.


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## NewEnglander (Aug 20, 2018)

Hi all, wanted to share an update of my overseed. Temps have subsided up here in NH, which made it a good time to aerate and overseed.

I overseeded on 9/3, and this is what the lawn looks like this morning.

It's not perfect, but I'll take it over what I was looking at.

Could it be a good idea to do some apps of Tenacity in a few weeks to take out the bent, or should I wait till next year?


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

Nice recovery! Looking good!


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

NewEnglander said:


> Hi all, wanted to share an update of my overseed. Temps have subsided up here in NH, which made it a good time to aerate and overseed.
> 
> I overseeded on 9/3, and this is what the lawn looks like this morning.
> 
> ...


Night and day difference. Great work!


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## dvon (Sep 17, 2018)

I'm interested in what others have to say about the bentgrass, I battled it this summer and wish I knew what it was early, it spread so fast that it took out a couple hundred sq feet of my side yard when I finally did use tenacity. Bentgrass is the devil


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

I seem to recall reading somewhere that fall is the time to battle bentgrass, thought I could be mistaken..


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## Khy (Jul 27, 2018)

jessehurlburt said:


> I seem to recall reading somewhere that fall is the time to battle bentgrass, thought I could be mistaken..


Yeah, fall or spring. Like most grassy weeds or any weed really, to even apply an herbicide, you ideally want it to be in it's growing season as it helps the absorption of the herbicide through the plant and down to the roots so that it actually dies off.

The other side of that also is that fall is the best time to reseed. So being that it takes 2-3 Tenacity applications to really kill off the Bentgrass completely. If you start like Labor Day or the week before, that gives you 2-3 weeks to apply your tenacity applications, kill the bentgrass completely. And then reseed with ample time left to establish the new seedlings before we head into winter.

For those reasons, it's not just the best time but kind of the only time. I think if you tried to deal with bentgrass in the spring, you just wouldn't have enough time to kill it coming out of winter, reseed and get that seed established and mature before the heat of summer came through and killed off your new seedlings.


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## NewEnglander (Aug 20, 2018)

Yeah, I've been going back and forth. My creeping bent is like 99% dormant, so I didn't bother with getting it out. Before seed since it wasn't growing.

Lawn looks OK now, but real test will be next summer in the heat when I change my watering and mowing practices.

Thanks for the input everyone!


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## NewEnglander (Aug 20, 2018)

Well, things have taken a turn for the better. I'm back to looking better than spring thanks to the 4th Millennium and cooler temps.

I did a light blanket spray of Tenacity on Sunday, I want to see if anything lights up in the areas I had problems with. So far nothing crazy showing, but it's still early.

Not saying I'm out of the woods yet. It looks great in spring and fall. It's that middle part that's a problem. But thanks to all you, I know I shouldn't listen to the irrigation guys on daily watering.


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