# Soil Test - Tampa Bay, FL Area



## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)

I posted this in the wrong forum and couldnt move it here so created a new post......

In short, here are my test results for Tampa Bay, FL. IS the pH hopeless to improve?

Any thoughts in how to make meaningful changes to the soil would be appreciated.


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)




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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

You need to determine whether the soil is calcareous. Here is an article on doing a vinegar test:
https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/HS1262


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)

Virginiagal said:


> You need to determine whether the soil is calcareous. Here is an article on doing a vinegar test:
> https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/HS1262


Thank you for posting this, I'm almost certain my soils are calcareous. I will complete this test this week.


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)

Virginiagal said:


> You need to determine whether the soil is calcareous. Here is an article on doing a vinegar test:
> https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/HS1262


Heres another article that folks with high Ca and higher than expected CEC (such as my soil) might find interesting. I knew my CEC was inflated (I have mostly Florida sand with low organic matter), and this explains exactly why.

https://www.agvise.com/high-soil-ph-and-calcium-carbonate-inflate-base-cation-saturation-and-cation-exchange-capacity-cec/


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Thanks! Here's an article explaining why elevated pH ammonium acetate extractant should be used in soil tests on calcareous soils. Next time you get a soil test done, find a lab that can use that extractant and request it.
https://gsrpdf.lib.msu.edu/?file=/article/whitlark-soil-3-4-11.pdf

How did the vinegar test turn out?


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)

Virginiagal said:


> How did the vinegar test turn out?


I should be able to tell in a few more days. That test calls for the soil to be air dried for a week at room temperature before the test is done, so I've been trying to be patient, lol

I may do an early test later today and see what happens and then repeat it after a week as prescribed.


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)

Virginiagal said:


> Thanks! Here's an article explaining why elevated pH ammonium acetate extractant should be used in soil tests on calcareous soils. Next time you get a soil test done, find a lab that can use that extractant and request it.
> https://gsrpdf.lib.msu.edu/?file=/article/whitlark-soil-3-4-11.pdf
> 
> How did the vinegar test turn out?


The test is alot harder to do than I thought.....determining what are "bubbles" and their intensity is difficult. I even added pure lime to the test soil to really create an obvious result, and it still wasnt easy to see.


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)

I redid the soil test from the exact same lab but this time I took a sample that I was 100% sure was from the base soil in my yard (as it was done before I resodded). So, any of the soil that was native to my original sod that was tested before has been removed from the equation.

Yikes😢


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Here's an article. If your soil is calcareous, it's not likely that you will be able to reduce pH. But you can add nutrients when needed and do foliar iron.
https://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/golfd/article/2003aug40.pdf

For calcareous soils, the Olsen extractant should be used for phosphorus and ammonium acetate (preferably elevated pH ammonium acetate) for the cations. I don't know what lab you're using and what extractants they're using but you might want to consider U of Florida for soil tests next time. Looks like cost is $10 and they use ammonium acetate for high pH soils.
https://sfyl.ifas.ufl.edu/agriculture/soil-testing/
https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/SS401


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)

Virginiagal said:


> Here's an article. If your soil is calcareous, it's not likely that you will be able to reduce pH. But you can add nutrients when needed and do foliar iron.
> https://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/golfd/article/2003aug40.pdf
> 
> For calcareous soils, the Olsen extractant should be used for phosphorus and ammonium acetate (preferably elevated pH ammonium acetate) for the cations. I don't know what lab you're using and what extractants they're using but you might want to consider U of Florida for soil tests next time. Looks like cost is $10 and they use ammonium acetate for high pH soils.
> ...


I will have to check out UF for the soil tests. Thank you. This one (and the last one as well) went to Waters in Georgia.


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)

Virginiagal said:


> Here's an article. If your soil is calcareous, it's not likely that you will be able to reduce pH. But you can add nutrients when needed and do foliar iron.
> https://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/golfd/article/2003aug40.pdf


Thank you for posting the link to that article. I just read it and it is probably a fool's errand for me to think I can meaningfully change the pH. I am probably just better off following a high pH fertilization practice.


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

Waters Lab should be a good lab. Ask them what extractants they use. If it's Mehlich, then the cations like calcium and magnesium will be off, just like the article you found earlier said they would be overstated, and CEC would be overstated too. As for why the numbers are so different in the second test (look at K and P, for example), I wonder if some of it has to do with your sampling technique. It's important that the sampling depth be the same each time you test. I looked on Waters website and did not see instructions on sampling. These are instructions from a different lab but it goes into detail on how to take a proper sample.
https://www.blinc.com/services/lawn-and-garden
Some of the difference, as you say, is that you didn't include soil from the sod layer which no doubt was highly fertilized. And that soil might have been a lower pH than your native soil. But there's not a lot of soil that comes with the sod. Look at the difference in Ca and Mg. You would think it would be higher with just your native soil but it's lower. I'm going to guess it has to do with sampling inconsistencies.


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)

Virginiagal said:


> I'm going to guess it has to do with sampling inconsistencies.


Yes.....I sampled this one only to maybe 3" deep. The last one I went deeper and in more areas (and also didnt include any sod soil as mentioned).

The rationale was that the grass roots just never get very deep so I figured that what the soil is down there wasnt of significance. I saw the golf course cut out grass sections last year that must be decades old and the roots were barely a few inches down.

The K and P differences may have been fertilizer? I recall putting some down a few weeks before the last sample so maybe a few dissolved prills were hiding in there.......


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## Virginiagal (Apr 24, 2017)

I found sampling instructions for Waters. It was under FAQs. They say to take a sample 4 inches deep (for lawns) in 10-20 spots in the area tested and mix them thoroughly. Each sample must be the same depth.
https://watersag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/How-To-Take-a-Soil-Sample.pdf

U of Florida says to take at least 15 samples at 3 inches deep for lawns and mix them together. 
https://sfyl.ifas.ufl.edu/agriculture/soil-testing/


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## UFG8RMIKE (Apr 21, 2019)

I'm in the Tampa area and also have very high ph, it has zero effect on the grass (empire zoysia) . If it ain't broke don't try and fix it. The irrigation water has so much calcium in it, you will never correct it.


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)

I did three more soil tests for my yard. I purposely did these from specific areas so the results are very localized. I wanted to do this to get an idea of the variation around the yard (and mixing from multiple points would have of course obscured variation and would have given the average). Plus, since Lowe's was running a sale on all of these soil test kits, I bought a gazillion of them so I might as well test a bunch 

The short story is, there really isn't much variation which is a positive to me since I can more or less treat everything the same.

pH is sky high (which has been confirmed over and over), the high Ca is also understood at this point, the high FE explains why my FAS treatments provided no visual change, but the low K did surprise me a bit. Some 0-0-60 will go down tomorrow. The OM (organic matter) was a lot higher than expected.....maybe some of the richer soil from the sod farm made its way down into the very top of the native soil.

Since at this point I've resigned myself to having high pH calcareous soil, I will just try and work
with it. The N I have been using does have a good amount of S in it, so perhaps that will help a little bit over time.


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)




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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)




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