# La Prima? Arden 15? Monaco? Help!!



## DFW245 (Jul 23, 2021)

Sorry this is the first post from me, but ive frequented this forum for hours and hours. Researching on here has become a staple for me and since this question hadnt been answered, I HAD to create an account and ask.

Well, very very long story:

First time homeowner, moved in May 7th. Front yard was practically non existent. Not including some bermuda.. (700SqFT of dirt and cigarette butts)
Backyard was completely full... of crabgrass and nutsedge with some (common??) bermuda sprinkled in. Not to mention 3 small trees, 2 large trees and 4 spots of shaded, bare, thinning grass. First measure? Get rid of the small trees. Now with only the two large trees? I continued.

May 15th: Went to lowes and, after countless hours of research, decided upon zoysia(zenith) for the front lawn. Bought the first bag of zoysia I saw and proSEEDed(lol) to overseed the front yard and lay some high N fert down. Absolutely 0 Phos. I know, I know...i figured that out later. smh

June 1st: After more and more research, Id realized id completely goofed up on the front yard. smh. FIgured might as well do the back correctly. Gly treatment on the entire back yard(1600 sqft) and started from scratch. After two weeks everything seemed to die off and we proceeded to scalp. (This is where I got impatient..)

June 19th: After not seeing any change in the front yard so far, except for the bermuda becoming healthy after implementing a watering routine, I decided to go ahead with the seeding of the backyard. Went with bermuda this time as I wanted more of a Golf course lawn and plus it grows WAY faster. Some bermuda hadnt died off but hey, its grass. Put grass seed down (Arden 15) and put a light layer of Peat moss over the top of the seed. Not too deep, I read. Fertilized with some STARTER fert this time. Some 18-24-3 I believe. Watered and watered and watered. 4 days later? SEEDLINGS!!!

June 28: After seeing success with the back yard i decided to reseed the front correctly. (mistake I know) Got 2lbs of Royal TXD and put it down, bare. Watered it in and about 4 days later, Seedlings. Everything is going fine now.

July 8: Decided to do the vanity strip as well now that all the tree trimmings were removed. Gly treatment and waited.

July 11: Gly treatment on side strips of house.

So HERE IS WHERE I JACKED UP

July 13: I realized with all of the progress in the backyard, the weeds were absolutely SHREDDING it. Ive cut it about 3 times at this point. (1" HOC) Took a look at the front and said yeah, same thing here, crabgrass, dallisgrass, and dandelion galore. Backyard was INFESTED with nutsedge, dollarweed, crabgrass, crabgrass, crabgrass, more crabgrass, and spurge. Decided to do a treatment of Quin and Image Nut. killer. sighhhh

July 17: Tested the soil by mixing 2 mixtures with baking soda. (no reaction). The two samples mixed with vinegar? Looked like i poured it into a cup of baking soda....ahh, Alkaline soil i see. Bought a bag of Sulfur and put it down in the back and the front.

July 18: Bought a PH tester and tested the lawn a few times. Every thing tested about 6.8-7 at about 6in deep. sighhh here we go again....

Here it is July 23 and Ive realized so so so many mistakes ive made over the couple of months. The weed treatment has more than dinged my bermuda. The front took a much harder hit for some reason. The Arden hasnt completely filled in in the back, and the under tree spots are still thin. Id say its about 70% filled in. Under tree spots are about 20%. I realize now, it may be best to count my losses, and just do THE CORRECT procedure with the strips. Its almost time for me to seed down here (DFW TX). Frequent 90+ temps. Ive killed off all weeds berforehand now and will take the correct measures to prep my soil before seeding. Down here temps dont drop off into the 50s until about november. So i figure i have a couple months left to growth. Only if i seed now.

I know that was alot of info (sorry) but that leads me to my point now. Im not sure which strain of bermuda is in the front yard(kinda looks like maybe some zoysia germinated afterall .eyeroll.) I just know its pretty dark. I like that. Ive narrowed down my choices of seed to

La Prima
Arden 15(P77)
Monaco(riviera)

Price is not an issue, however im seeing more comments about Arden 15 not being on the darker side. Out of the three types, which tends to run darker? Id prefer something around the Hunter Green color. Just an overall darker green. Arden clearly germinates very quick, so I like that. Also, I will be Reel mowing with a California Trimmer at some point soon. around (.75" HOC). Which would be the darker cultivar? And what are some other characteristics of the other two? Thanks to ANYONE who read through this whole mess. And thanks to anyone who responds..


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## DFW245 (Jul 23, 2021)

Also, quick question. After essentially screwing up and applying the herbicide to grass that's not fully matured, how long can I expect it to take for the Bermuda to bounce back? It's not completely brown, but you can tell it's been dinged a fair bit.


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## Buffalolawny (Nov 24, 2018)

Monaco 
Arden 15 (Replaces Princess 77)
Pricncess 77
La Prima - More Cold Tolerant 
LaPrima Bermuda Grass Seed is a mixture of the following. (Varieties are subject to change due to availability) from Hancock Seeds.
- Mirage Bermudagrass
- Pyramid 2 Bermudagrass
- Royal Bengal Bermudagrass

https://hancockseed.com/products/arden-15-bermuda
https://www.barusa.com/professional-turf/tech/monaco-bermudagrass


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## DFW245 (Jul 23, 2021)

Are those listed from darkest to lightest? Or just in any order? La prima being more cold tolerant is semi helpful thanks. Any particular traits of Monaco? Aside from green darkness, which cultivar would you say has the finest/thinnest blade?


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## robbybobby (May 15, 2017)

If cost isnt an issue why not throw some celebration Sod down. It will get you that color you're looking for. Doesn't look like you have a large area youre looking to cover either. Based on your username, youre in the DFW area. Plenty of farms nearby that are growing celebration. You could likely find pallets for ~$220 per 450sqft.


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## DFW245 (Jul 23, 2021)

Sorry, let me rephrase: Price isnt an issue as it pertains to seeded varieties. I say that because I know it won't require alot of seed. Sod prices tend to be a bit out of my budget at the moment. Celebration, might have to look into that just to check the color. And yes, in the DFW area of TX. Thanks for the recommendation also. Would you happen to know about those three varieties? I'm leaning towards Monaco but I'm not sure across the board how it compares to Arden 15


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## Buffalolawny (Nov 24, 2018)

Monaco is the darkest

Have a look at Ron Henry on Youtube with the difference between Arden 15 and Princess 77 in his backyard.

https://www.youtube.com/user/ciphermonk


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## DFW245 (Jul 23, 2021)

Buffalolawny said:


> Monaco is the darkest
> 
> Have a look at Ron Henry on Youtube with the difference between Arden 15 and Princess 77 in his backyard.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/user/ciphermonk


Monaco is the darkest...thank you. And Arden 15 and P77 are identical. It's an upgraded version. Also, I follow Ron Henry so I'm pretty familiar with his stuff. Arden 15 definitely has a nice hue, but I'd prefer something dark. Along the lines of the celebration Bermuda color...or Kentucky bluegrass color. I know that won't be possible with seeded varieties, but anything remotely close to it is all I ask for. Monaco works. Would you say that is the darkest cultivar of Bermuda? Or would maybe something like Blackjack be darker? Though that's rather hard to find pure.


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## robbybobby (May 15, 2017)

As buffalo said, Monaco is as good as it gets right now for color. Ive attached some NTEP findings from a few years back. Most are captured on here. Monaco isn't far off from celebrations color. Id run with it.

https://www.ntep.org/data/bg13/bg13_18-14f/bg13_18-14f.pdf


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## DFW245 (Jul 23, 2021)

robbybobby said:


> As buffalo said, Monaco is as good as it gets right now for color. Ive attached some NTEP findings from a few years back. Most are captured on here. Monaco isn't far off from celebrations color. Id run with it.
> 
> https://www.ntep.org/data/bg13/bg13_18-14f/bg13_18-14f.pdf


Monaco for color it is!! Thanks. Also, how does it compare to Arden 15 for blade thickness?


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## DFW245 (Jul 23, 2021)

Any info greatly appreciated


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## robbybobby (May 15, 2017)

Arden 15 > Monaco > Celebration

Arden is the finest of the options listed.


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## mvz53 (May 11, 2021)

I Seeded Arden 15 this year and have to say it's the best decision I've made. Made several mistakes throughout the process from seed washout, over-doing phosphorous, overdoing herbicides, high traffic, few waterings and it has taken every stressor with stride and refuses to slow down. Finally getting everything dialed in and i'm averaging about 1'/week of thick coverage into the back portion of the yard that had near to zero germination due to shading from trees after about noon(shade isnt an issue now after germination it seems like).


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## DFW245 (Jul 23, 2021)

mvz53 said:


> I Seeded Arden 15 this year and have to say it's the best decision I've made. Made several mistakes throughout the process from seed washout, over-doing phosphorous, overdoing herbicides, high traffic, few waterings and it has taken every stressor with stride and refuses to slow down. Finally getting everything dialed in and i'm averaging about 1'/week of thick coverage into the back portion of the yard that had near to zero germination due to shading from trees after about noon(shade isnt an issue now after germination it seems like).


That gives me hope then thanks! Mine didn't seem to perform too too well after blasting it with the herbicides. I'll just overseed one more time this year. Possibly august. Let it grow in for a while and get food n healthy before it cools off down here. Whatever weeds it'll have, I'll leave it. Unless Celsius can be applied when seeding



robbybobby said:


> Arden 15 > Monaco > Celebration
> 
> Arden is the finest of the options listed.


Thank you so much. That answers exactly what I was looking for. So I suppose out of all the Bermuda cultivars, the thinnest and darkest blade you can get would possibly come in the form of Monaco correct? Monaco being almost as dark as celebration and almost as thin as Arden 15.


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## DFW245 (Jul 23, 2021)

Would that be true?


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## DFW245 (Jul 23, 2021)

Apparently after reading over HOA, the lawn might've been originally sod. So I have no clue what kind of Bermuda I have currently in the front. It is rather dark.


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## Bombers (Jul 14, 2020)

DFW245 said:


> Apparently after reading over HOA, the lawn might've been originally sod. So I have no clue what kind of Bermuda I have currently in the front. It is rather dark.


New built or recently new (10 years or so)? Most likely tifway 419 since a lot of folks in the DFW here have that cultivar.


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## RustyRockets (Apr 9, 2021)

I have Monaco on my front lawn and it's been great for me in the Austin Tx area. Similar temps as DFW. I'll be upfront and say you are rushing things from excitement of what will be your lawn. I did the same mistake this year when I over seeded the first time.

You need to take care of the weeds first, without a proper treatment- they'll continue to fight the Bermuda and continue to spread/grow. Seeing that you're seeding, the Bermuda won't be established well enough to withstand most applications of a weed-killer spray.

The second time I reseeded I took my time and took care of the weeds first. I sifted several large bags of potting soil mixed it with fine-sand from any local box store, Home Depot/Lowe's. I did a hard scalp on the front lawn taking it down to dirt. Saw my low and high spots and leveled the area out first with the potting-sand mix.

I rolled the area and lightly watered it, rolled it again. Then I applied the seeds and did a last layer of the potting-sand mix and rolled that in for good seed-to-soil contact.

I had gathered my own little info as far as temps outside and soil temps through the day and got my averages. With that info, I set my sprinkler system to water at specific times and keep the area moist/hydrated.

Watering is probably the most important thing, if you're not consistent and you let the soils dry out, your seed will not grow as desired or at all. You wearer bill will definitely reflect the water usage needed.

I can't speak on behalf of Arden 15 or La Pima, seeing that I haven't not seeded with; Monaco on the other hand has been very promising for me and it's incredibly fine and has actually thickened up allot on its own where I don't have a weed problem and have only done one application this year for weeds. The seed took about a week and a half to germinate.

Good luck to you!


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## DFW245 (Jul 23, 2021)

Bombers said:


> DFW245 said:
> 
> 
> > Apparently after reading over HOA, the lawn might've been originally sod. So I have no clue what kind of Bermuda I have currently in the front. It is rather dark.
> ...


I don't think it's that new. Recently new yes. About 2012/2011. Somewhere in there. It doesn't look like sod at all, but I guess there's no way in telling??



RustyRockets said:


> I have Monaco on my front lawn and it's been great for me in the Austin Tx area. Similar temps as DFW. I'll be upfront and say you are rushing things from excitement of what will be your lawn. I did the same mistake this year when I over seeded the first time.
> 
> You need to take care of the weeds first, without a proper treatment- they'll continue to fight the Bermuda and continue to spread/grow. Seeing that you're seeding, the Bermuda won't be established well enough to withstand most applications of a weed-killer spray.
> 
> ...


Thanks man, and I really appreciate the constructive criticism. I really do. I know I rushed it in hindsight, smh. I really shouldve waited. But would it have made more sense to have waited on the weed killers and just let my lane become established first and thicken up until next spring and then focus on the weeds? I've heard a thick enough lawn can suppress some weeds. I essentially had a nutsedge alley in my backyard lol now that it's all dead, it's just almost bare soil there. The crabgrass and spurge however have started coming back in other areas. Also, the neighbors have about 8in of Bermuda/crabgrass and they just called themselves trying to cut it before the new tenants moved in, down to about 2in. So yes, there's crap everywhere and it's even poking out the sides of their gate and slipping into my yard somewhat. It's a mess. I waited too late to put down preemergent, but I did however just order a bottle of Celsius. Wonder if I can put any of that down to take care of some of those weeds? Or grow my lawn, focus on weeds next year?


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## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

I have Monaco, love the color and the early spring / late fall green retention, but it's not the finest blade. I've never seen Arden in person but I'd choose one of those two for sure. Seed is already so much cheaper than sod, so go for the best.

One thing though, it's already very late to seed. You need about three months before frost. Not saying don't do it, but you need some good fortune from mother nature and you need to be prepared to do this again in the spring if it doesn't survive the winter. Fortunately with the more cold tolerant varieties like these you'll know early next spring how much made it.


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## DFW245 (Jul 23, 2021)

Chocolate Lab said:


> I have Monaco, love the color and the early spring / late fall green retention, but it's not the finest blade. I've never seen Arden in person but I'd choose one of those two for sure. Seed is already so much cheaper than sod, so go for the best.
> 
> One thing though, it's already very late to seed. You need about three months before frost. Not saying don't do it, but you need some good fortune from mother nature and you need to be prepared to do this again in the spring if it doesn't survive the winter. Fortunately with the more cold tolerant varieties like these you'll know early next spring how much made it.


That makes sense. And yes, I know its late to seed. However, down here we dont really see frost until about February. Most of the threatening cold weather comes in at about the end of November. One more however lol, Its not uncommon to see Christmas at about 75degrees. So theres that. I suppose ill try my luck with the vanity strip/side strip. Hoping to put it down and push it pretty heavy with N-P in hopes itll grow a smidge faster. Also, probably gonna hit my soils with some organic soil boosters or some sort. Get the soil nice n prepped for next year. I think im considering the back lawn a total loss this year. sigh...Thats on me. Spring time though? Arden 15 overseed!!! Might need some fungicide however.


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