# What is this weed or grass?



## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Just starting seeing these in the full sun section of my TTTF lawn. Wondering what it is and how to combat it?

https://flic.kr/p/2jg65pB


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@1028mountain looks like bermuda grass. There is a mixture you can apply to a TTTF lawn to control bermuda. Fusillade II and Turflon ester combined provide good control for bermuda with little to no injury for the fescue.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@Spammage

Is there any thing I can buy at the big box stores? Don't think I need all that much of both.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

1028mountain said:


> @Spammage
> 
> Is there any thing I can buy at the big box stores? Don't think I need all that much of both.


No, but you can try the marketplace area of the board to see if anyone is trying to sell some or wants to go in on a split purchase. :thumbup:


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

I went ahead and bought both.

No harm using a mixture of both on turf type tall fescue right? And any direction in mixture rates for spot spraying?


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@1028mountain here is a thread about it that should help. I know this says zoysia, but it's the same treatment for TTTF. If you search "bermudagrass control in tall fescue", you will find a link to the University of Tennessee pdf article on it.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=272557#p272557


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Thanks I found that Tennessee article but for whatever reason it's not loading. I bought both of what you recommended and will go from there.

Thanks for your help.

EDIT: From the UT article:

tall fescue, apply Fusilade II at 6 fl oz/a or Acclaim Extra at 28 fl oz/a plus Turflon Ester at 1 qt/a beginning mid-May. Apply sequential applications every 4 weeks throughout the growing season ending August 15. Reseed tall fescue into the controlled or killed areas. Increase mowing height to > 3 inches. Fertilize September 15, November 1, and March 1 with 1 lb/N/ 1000 ft2 to encourage vigorous tall fescue growth. Do not fertilize tall fescue after April 1 or before September 1.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

1028mountain said:


> Thanks I found that Tennessee article but for whatever reason it's not loading. I bought both of what you recommended and will go from there.
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> ...


Good deal. Keep us posted on your progress. :thumbup:


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@Spammage

Ok I got the ester and fusilade, is their a best practice/ratio to applying it? There are only certain areas that are showing bermuda grass (thankfully) so I will spray them.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

1028mountain said:


> @Spammage
> 
> Ok I got the ester and fusilade, is their a best practice/ratio to applying it? There are only certain areas that are showing bermuda grass (thankfully) so I will spray them.


The fusillade label has a section that addresses it. It does say not to use it on fescue in the summer, but the triclopyr mitigates the damage to the fescue while increasing the damage to the bermuda.

I would start at .07 oz per 1000sf of Fusillade, along with .65 oz per 1000sf of Triclopyr and a non-ionic surfactant. You want this to be a foliar application. Make sure you don't overlap your sprays and don't get heavy handed with spot spraying or you might damage the fescue. I've had good luck with this in my zoysia, with a little discoloration and slower growth being the only noticeable effects.


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## edixon88 (Jun 18, 2020)

Hey @Spammage, while you're active in this thread, do you have any suggestions on how to tell the difference between Bermuda and Torpedo? I've literally been reading the forum for the past 12 hours and I have myself convinced I have Torpedo but would like to see if there's a definitive way to tell.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

edixon88 said:


> Hey @spammage, while you're active in this thread, do you have any suggestions on how to tell the difference between Bermuda and Torpedo? I've literally been reading the forum for the past 12 hours and I have myself convinced I have Torpedo but would like to see if there's a definitive way to tell.


Fortunately for me, I have no personal experience with Torpedograss. Several threads on here have shown good pictures of it, and the general theme for the best identifier is that the stolons, rhizomes and roots are very white.


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## edixon88 (Jun 18, 2020)

Spammage said:


> edixon88 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey @spammage, while you're active in this thread, do you have any suggestions on how to tell the difference between Bermuda and Torpedo? I've literally been reading the forum for the past 12 hours and I have myself convinced I have Torpedo but would like to see if there's a definitive way to tell.
> ...


Thanks, unfortunately that appears to be what I have. Sounds like quinclorac is my best option.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Spammage said:


> 1028mountain said:
> 
> 
> > @Spammage
> ...


@Spammage is that right? .07 oz of fusilade? That is basically very little if at all in a gallon of water. Directions for spot spraying on the label call for .75 oz.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

1028mountain said:


> Spammage said:
> 
> 
> > 1028mountain said:
> ...


That is correct. Applying at .75 oz will smoke your grass.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Great thanks man.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@1028mountain look at pages 11 and 12 from the label for more information. This doesn't include the triclopyr, but that helps to mitigate damage to the fescue and increase damage to the bermuda. Make sure you don't overdo it.

Edit -- skip the top part...


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Yeah not sure I should even worry about this until the fall it's super hot and humid here and the grass does appear to be struggling already.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

1028mountain said:


> Yeah not sure I should even worry about this until the fall it's super hot and humid here and the grass does appear to be struggling already.


Won't hurt a thing to wait. I've been using this on my zoysia with good success and some stunting of growth in 95-100° temps, but fescue is another animal altogether. I did spray one small strip twice to see what would happen, and the zoysia was scorched along with the bermuda the day after spraying.  The zoysia still has a little damage a week later, but is recovering nicely.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@Spammage I am overseeding in the near future, would it make sense to just kill off the area w/bermuda completely and just reseed those spots? Maybe easier than trying to manage it every year. Having said that I killed everything off last fall when I did the reno and still came back so not even sure it matters.

Up tot his point I have just been painting them with a round up gel stick and it seems to be working for stuff above aground. No idea what its doing to the roots though.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

1028mountain said:


> @Spammage I am overseeding in the near future, would it make sense to just kill off the area w/bermuda completely and just reseed those spots? Maybe easier than trying to manage it every year. Having said that I killed everything off last fall when I did the reno and still came back so not even sure it matters.
> 
> Up tot his point I have just been painting them with a round up gel stick and it seems to be working for stuff above aground. No idea what its doing to the roots though.


You can certainly try. If you "kill" bermuda enough, you will eventually actually kill it. That typically requires a much higher dose of glyphosate than normal, and mixing it with the triclopyr and fusillade helps. You will probably want to do this three times with 14-21 days between apps along with watering and fertilizer to try to push growth.


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