# Finally Centipede to P77 Bermuda reno.



## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Didn't plan on doing this now but back in April I over applied MSM.....did 1oz/A instead of 0.05oz/A. Half the front yard and part of the side yard did not survive.

Per the wife I had to fix this as cheap as possible... As she says I killed the centipede on purpose.

Found 1 place in SC that would sell TifGrand Sprigs, they will have Tahoma 31 ready in the fall, however the do not do small orders. Maybe next spring I will sprig the whole yard with T31. So seed it is.

Per @thegrassfactor I went with P77.

Seed - $94.50
Sand - $151.64
Starter Fert - $18.93
Dethatcher - free
Total - $265.07 for reno of 2500sq/ft from centipede to Princess 77 Bermuda.

I bought a SunJoe dethatcher but that is being sent back since it quit working.

Since I had put down prodiamine at the 8 month rate on March 30th, the following plan was devised with help from @Greendoc and @thegrassfactor.

Note: Not killing centipede that is still alive, since front is slopped and side is really slopped, hoping it will hold the sand and seed in place.

1. Scalp
2. Dethatch 1 direction 
3. Dethatch other direction 
4. Double dose of TNEX on current centipede still alive. 
5. Level with sand(about 1T/k)
6. Seed
7. Starter Fert
8. Cover with sand at about 1T/k
9. Water 5 minutes every hour from Sunrise to Sunset. 
10. Once grow in is complete kill off any centipede that remains with Revolver or Monumemet.

Steps 1-3 are completed, once twins go down for a nap spraying TNEX. 4 yards of sand is be delivered this afternoon. Seed tonight or tomorrow.

Some progress pics:

Dieing centipede




Seed:


Scalping:




Dethatching first direction:





Dethatching 2nd direction(I got the front completed and it broke shortly after start the side yard for the second direction):





Sand(Inspected before I ordered it):


Starter Fert(Thanks to @gators52 for helping pick the fert on http://thelawndiscord.com while I was out and about):


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

How are you covering the seed with sand evenly?


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## Alan (Apr 23, 2017)

Did you do any mods to the riding mower to mow that low? Good luck with the project. :thumbup:


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Batsonbe said:


> How are you covering the seed with sand evenly?


I have no idea



Alan said:


> Did you do any mods to the riding mower to mow that low? Good luck with the project. :thumbup:


Nope, going to get a manual reel for now....


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Got a helper for now.... Bribed him with $5 for robux....


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Darkness fell and I did not complete my tasks.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Done...


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)




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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Day 5, no germination yet. Did get 2.5" of rain in 1 hour though.





And this will be going down this weekend.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

I hit mine with 0.1 Oz/M instead of 0.02. I feel your pain. Minus nutsedge I'm weed free though! &#128514;


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

@SCGrassMan yeah back yard is pretty much weed free also... I did PGR at the same time and haven't mowed the back yet, was planning to this week.... But too dang wet.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Can't wait to see the pics as it progresses!


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

The rain is not welcome....


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## ZachUA (Dec 28, 2018)

Man I feel you on that rain/sand! I leveled my yard a couple weeks ago and have been sweeping up sand inside our living room ever since.

Your reno is looking good though! Can't wait to see after pics.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Gibby said:


> The rain is not welcome....


I have to know know, did your significant other give you a "I told you so" or just stand on the front porch arms crossed and stare at it?


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

I wonder if the HOA is going to send you a letter for having the best looking lawn next year?


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

@TN Hawkeye I may be having to put the tent up to sleep in. She was not happy with all the sand in the driveway and tracked through her vehicle and the house.

@Colonel K0rn my HOA only likes to collect money.

I did spray some 20-20-20 today though.

Back yard is not bad. Only used CX on it this year.



And the neighbors...


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Day 8 no germination yet...


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## JDM83 (Sep 19, 2018)

man i hate you got hit with all this rain right after reno. all the pics look like it was going well. now we just hope the rain didnt tear up all that hard work too bad, hope you have a little seed and sand leftover. i have a feeling there will be some bare patches from the wash out. best of luck! hoping for an excellent turn out.


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## SC Grass Loon (Jun 7, 2019)

Did you get your sand from Sterling Sand in Lugoff? I will need sand to topdress in a bit and am considering using them.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

@SC Grass Loon No I got it from Crabtree Landscaping. I would look at getting it from https://www.crescentmoontrucking.com/ if you can get a hold of them.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

@JDM83 nope no extra sand or seed. Leaving for almost 2 weeks in 2 days, was trying to find a place to ship some P77 today but most of them have converted to shipping Arden 15 instead.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Germination has happened. Saw a very small piece of green poking up through the sand. If I brush it away in spots, I see lots of green.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)




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## SC Grass Loon (Jun 7, 2019)

Gibby said:


> @SC Grass Loon No I got it from Crabtree Landscaping. I would look at getting it from https://www.crescentmoontrucking.com/ if you can get a hold of them.


Sounds good, I will look into them. Thanks.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Was out of town for about 10 days. Put down some 20-20-20 at 0.5#N/M before we left. Was able to find some Bermuda when we got home Saturday. I was slightly disappointed.



Today was planning on putting down more 20-20-20 but decided to reel mow it manually just under 0.5". Did find some more Bermuda mixed throughout the centipede. A couple areas are really bad due to being washed out.



Will hit with 20-20-20 tomorrow.







Most of what you see is the centipede.... Just under the centipede canopy I have found Bermuda in most places, I think.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

0.5#N of 20-20-20 went down this morning. Did do more spot checks and I think I have quite a good bit of Bermuda... However I did find some with the roots just under the Centipede and not even into the soil.... May not have broke up the pre-em enough.


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

Question, I honestly didn't go back and read your journal this time, but I have been following for a month or so now. Did you round up or how is the centipede coming back?
I'm about to be doing the same as you have done and I don't want the centipede to come back. I've sprayed three times and ripped most of it out with my dethatcher. No signs of green anywhere except for the common Bermuda coming through the ground.


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## lawn789 (Jun 16, 2019)

You'll have to deal with the centipede eventually. What you killed will come back. I hit my already dead (from drought) centipede with glyphosate. Waited for it do die then tilled and planted bermuda. Year after year the centipede came back. Now its 90% centipede again (6 yrs later).

I didnt know my herbicides back then to kill the centipede and keep the bermuda, but you'll have to have a plan of action, and not sure if the newly seeded bermuda can take a whole lot. Im not as educated as ppl on this forum but it def happened to me. Put a lot of hard work in..lol


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

lawn789 said:


> You'll have to deal with the centipede eventually. What you killed will come back. I hit my already dead (from drought) centipede with glyphosate. Waited for it do die then tilled and planted bermuda. Year after year the centipede came back. Now its 90% centipede again (6 yrs later).
> 
> I didnt know my herbicides back then to kill the centipede and keep the bermuda, but you'll have to have a plan of action, and not sure if the newly seeded bermuda can take a whole lot. Im not as educated as ppl on this forum but it def happened to me. Put a lot of hard work in..lol


I'd be spraying msma. That's my thoughts. What'd you recommend


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

I did not kill the centipede yet. Waiting for about 75% coverage per @Greendoc prior to killing off the centipede. Will use something like Monument probably.


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## lawn789 (Jun 16, 2019)

Batsonbe said:


> lawn789 said:
> 
> 
> > You'll have to deal with the centipede eventually. What you killed will come back. I hit my already dead (from drought) centipede with glyphosate. Waited for it do die then tilled and planted bermuda. Year after year the centipede came back. Now its 90% centipede again (6 yrs later).
> ...


Id do the same - MSMA. From what Ive read you can take care of the majority of your problems with MSMA if you have bermuda. Weeds all the way down to different turf types that may invade it.

Ill try to upload pics for the original poster of this thread to look at. I planted the bermuda back in early 2011, and by 2017ish majority of the yard was back to centipede. Like I said I didn't know my herbicides back then, but I was putting high nitrogen fertilizer and mowing low to promote the bermuda growth. Still the centipede won.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Centipede wins if mowed low and the soil pH is right. But, Quinclorac is fatal to Centipede. So is Monument. So is Revolver.


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## lawn789 (Jun 16, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> Centipede wins if mowed low and the soil pH is right. But, Quinclorac is fatal to Centipede. So is Monument. So is Revolver.


I see..thats good to know. thanks


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

lawn789 said:


> Batsonbe said:
> 
> 
> > lawn789 said:
> ...


Not going to use arsenic on my yard with the kids and animals.


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## lawn789 (Jun 16, 2019)

Gibby said:


> lawn789 said:
> 
> 
> > Batsonbe said:
> ...


I don't blame you


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Found some of these so moved them to a few of the bare spots.


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

Gibby said:


> Found some of these so moved them to a few of the bare spots.


Awesome


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

28 days since seeding. What is green I would say is about 1/3 Bermuda.


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## ReelCentipede (Jun 11, 2019)

Gibby,

I am new to TLF and am a Centipede owner that was enthusiastically following you and BRodgers88, only to be heart broken by finding out that you two both renovated. I am not saying I would never do it myself. I just don't know anything other Centipede grass.

My question for you is about your sand to level. I need to level my yard as well. I live in Charleston, SC and wasn't sure if I had to specifically hunt down masonry sand to do this leveling, or would any sand at a nursery do the job? My goal is to get it "Reel" low like Brodgers' setup before he got a makeover.

....BTW, this question is not just solely for Gibby. I would love input from anyone on this.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

@Bolo0505 make sure to inspect the sand. I found 3 places within 10 miles of me that carries.

I dug through it and made sure it didn't have junk in it before I ordered.

Also: I still have 7,500sq/ft of centipede in my backyard.... For now.... Looking at getting Tahoma 31 sprigs possibly.


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## Brodgers88 (Feb 26, 2017)

@Bolo0505 sorry to break your heart with my reno lol but the look of centipede was breaking my heart haha. I would try to find masonry sand if possible. You want something that is medium coarse for leveling. What's the sand at the nursery like? It may work well too. I've used bagged play sand from Lowe's before and it worked fine.


Gibby said:


> @Bolo0505 make sure to inspect the sand. I found 3 places within 10 miles of me that carries.
> 
> I dug through it and made sure it didn't have junk in it before I ordered.
> 
> Also: I still have 7,500sq/ft of centipede in my backyard.... For now.... Looking at getting Tahoma 31 sprigs possibly.


@Gibby nice! Where are you getting the Tahoma 31 from?


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

@Brodgers88 Riverside in Virginia.


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## Brodgers88 (Feb 26, 2017)

Nice! If you get the sprigs are you going to nuke the centipede?


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

@Brodgers88 yes I would nuke the whole yard. It might have to wait until spring though, we will see.

Few updates pics.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Coming along. What is green I would guess is 40-50% Bermuda.

Wish I would have got more P77 seed.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Just realized how much darker mine is than the rest of neighbors. Wow.


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## ReelCentipede (Jun 11, 2019)

@Brodgers88 and @Gibby Thanks for the responses guys. I want to chat more but haven't the time at the moment. So I figured that a video would be a little better. 




I am unsure if a copy and paste will work or not, but I guess I'll find out when I hit Submit.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

@Bolo0505 I like that drag you made!


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## ReelCentipede (Jun 11, 2019)

It was a back-saver for sure man! Took about 30 seconds to visualize and another 5 minutes to execute the build. Winner winner chicken dinner man! Unfortunately, i did not see you and Brodgers88 reply back to me until this morning. Oh, well...it's done now. It was just the first pile of sand i saw at a nursery near by. I didn't ask much. I just know that it was clean sand and that they recommended it for leveling. I wanna day it was $32 for the yard.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Spread CX today and had a brain fart and ended up doing 2oz/k of Tnex....


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Sprayed some sedge, kyllinga, and spotted spurge with sulfentralzone. 12 hours later and already started seeing yellowing. Used 1/8th tsp in 32oz spray bottle.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Gibby said:


> Spread CX today and had a brain fart and ended up doing 2oz/k of Tnex....


Did you see any negative effects from the TNex?


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

TN Hawkeye said:


> Gibby said:
> 
> 
> > Spread CX today and had a brain fart and ended up doing 2oz/k of Tnex....
> ...


Nope no negative affects... I forgot I had calibrated by tow behind for 0.5G/K... I had a bunch left over so just went over everything again thinking I was going to fast.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Mowing every 3 to 4 days. This was one of the most bare spots due to heavy handed MSM app.



Still has some filling in to do but I have ordered the Monument to kill off the centipede.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Missed my 2nd mow and Fert last week due working on the Tahoma 32 reno.

Got in a mow today. Bare spots definitely filling in. Did 0.5#N/M and Humic12 and RGS.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Mowed, spot sprayed sulfentralzone on kyllinga, spurge and sedge. Painted goose with some glyphosate.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Cut today. Plan is some 20-20-20 tomorrow morning and Monday evening a broadcast spray of Monument.

This area was were MSM was over applied and killed the centipede. About 90% Princess 77 now. 


This little strip some ladies keep driving over. About 95% Princess 77 now. 


This area got washed out the worst from the storms. About 95% weeds.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Sprayed Monument at 15g/A or 0.86 grams for 2,500sq/ft.

Little concerned as there were some areas of the centipede I could not find any Bermuda, however plan is to reno this area in the spring again with Tahoma 31.

Here is how it looks today.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

I hate spurge, but pulled up some nice long runners and transplanted them.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Centipede is dying out


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Walk through of the lawn.

https://youtu.be/FtW2Nx0-60o


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Some pics after a mow. Only thing growing is the P77 finally. Weeds and centipede are smoked.


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## treb003 (Aug 9, 2019)

@Gibby looking great!


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Sunday got some 46-0-0 at 0.5#N, monument and celsius. Today did a quick mow.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Mowed at 0.5" with the 220E, then took it down some and tried another pass. Think the reel needs greased. Then sprayed 0.5#N of Urea, some RGS and molasses.

Note: Grass catcher was not connected in this pic, just showing how much I collected.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Quick night mow..


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Been a while since I updated.

Found out that P77 recovers from scalping extremely well.
NTEP P77 scalping 9.0
NTEP T31 scalping 5.3

I have sprayed some more molasses, lesco micro mix and spread trip 19 at 1# N. It is really starting to spread now where the seed had washed away.

Some pics before a mow yesterday.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Gibby said:


> Been a while since I updated.
> 
> Found out that P77 recovers from scalping extremely well.
> NTEP P77 scalping 9.0
> ...


Interesting find on the NTEP stats on scalping. :thumbup:

I did a lot of research before I seeded with P77 but handn't seen that one.

That's awesome...and it has been my experience with P77 as well.

I recently scalped and the P77 went from brown and scalped to 90% green in 4 days!


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## kds (Apr 28, 2017)

Dang, you're putting in a lot of work on this one!


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## ladycage (Aug 12, 2019)

Nicely done. Which do you prefer better P77 or T31? color, maintenance, fill in rate?


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

@Gibby I'm interested to see which you prefer as well the P77 or T31?


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

@ENC_Lawn with the exception of scalping, hands down the Tahoma 31 currently. When I was picking up my sprigs the guy said he wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't even go dormant with how far south I was and if it did, maybe for only 1 or 2 weeks. I checked my weather station, and we had 14 days in the past year it got below 32 as the low, however, every one of those days had a high above 32.

I am already prepping for killing off the P77 in the spring and using sprigs or plugs from my backyard.


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## ladycage (Aug 12, 2019)

:shock:


Gibby said:


> @ENC_Lawn with the exception of scalping, hands down the Tahoma 31 currently. When I was picking up my sprigs the guy said he wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't even go dormant with how far south I was and if it did, maybe for only 1 or 2 weeks. I checked my weather station, and we had 14 days in the past year it got below 32 as the low, however, every one of those days had a high above 32.
> 
> I am already prepping for killing off the P77 in the spring and using sprigs or plugs from my backyard.


 :shock:  You did all that work just to kill the P77. Do you prefer T31 just because of cold tolerance or is the color, texture, water retention better also?


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

It grows vertically much slower, is denser than the P77 and has a different feel to it in the feet.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Gibby said:


> It grows vertically much slower, is denser than the P77 and has a different feel to it in the feet.


 :thumbup:


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## ladycage (Aug 12, 2019)

ok thanks, I may look into T31 for my front yard next season


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Slowly still filling in, the Tahoma 31 is filling in faster now than the P77.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Forgot to post this a couple of days ago, but still hanging in there.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Was only a couple days behind the Tahoma 31 but the Tahoma 31 is getting only a few hours of sun a day were the Princess 77 is still getting sun all day.


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