# Scagfreedom48z+ 2019 Partial Reno/Overseed



## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

First off. I just want to thank everyone for all your help and taking the time to answer all my novice questions. This is truly a great forum and all of you are a wealth of knowledge. I apologize that I have not been posting my journal as a reoccurring update but with work, family and the free time was out towards this project. I'm sure a lot of you can understand.

This project was truly a boat load of work. 26,000 sq ft to cover and doing it solo wasn't an easy task at all. It got to the point that I felt overwhelmed and made a bad decision, that I should have split up the work and done the back yard this year and the front yard next year. This was a big plunge since I marveled at my lawn and so did the rest of the neighborhood. I just couldn't stand the fact of looking at the POA T and Bentgrass getting worse every year. I had to do something about it before things got worse.

Do I feel good about my project? I don't know, I'd like to say that I do but I'm actually really nervous and worried that I destroyed my landscape but time will tell. For some reason I don't feel confident. I spent pretty much the entirety of my week vacation on the project and that's not counting in all the glypho apps that I did prior to this.

Here goes....

Bear with me. There is going to be a lot postings in order to catch up on everything.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

This was my landscape as of 7/2019.
I think it looks great but looks can be deceiving. You'll see the amount of Poa and Bent that I had to kill off that from a distance is hard to see.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

8/3/19 - my first spot spray glypho app of the back yard 
8/4/19- my first spot spray glypho app of the front yard

Glypho- 2oz per gallon
Surfactant - 4 table spoons per 8 gallons 
Blue dye- 2 oz per 8 gallons


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

8/10:

The spots are starting to get crispy 
I reapplied the same cocktail but upped it to 3oz of glypho per gallon


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

8/17 :
Here is a shot from the second floor of the house. You can see that, I had my hands full with the Poa and bent.

The "hell strip" is the section next to the kids playground. That spot was riddled with Poa and bent. I completely killed that section off


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

8/17-8/18:

Let the back breaking work begin:
Mowed the lawn down from 4" to 3". Didn't want to shock and stress too bad because the weather was still oppressive. I didn't want to chance anything just yet.

The hell strip was scalped to bare dirt with the husky lawn tractor. The deck was dropped to .5"

The spots were all weed wacked one by one to rid of the dead crap and expose dirt.

The dead debris was then bagged up with the lawn tractor. Wow... I was blown away at how much dead debris I had to collect. This was a 2 day ordeal.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

8/21- I continued to water the grass to fallow and see if any weeds would come up.

I reapplied the glypho cocktail again but increased the amount of glypho to 4oz per gallon.

8/24: Mowed the Front Lawn and dropped the HOC to 2.5". Mowed the back lawn and dropped the HOC to 2"


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

8/25:
Dethatched the backyard with one pass.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

8/30-9/2- went camping with the family and get away for a bit


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

9/3-9/4

Mowed the front and back to 2" HOC
Dethatched the front(2 directions) - 16k sq ft 
Dethatched the back(1 direction) - since I had done 1 direction earlier in the week.

All in all, I did the math, with the thatch and clippings. It was well over 750 lbs according to all the bag dumplings from the lawn tractor.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

9/5: Am: Last app of glypho: Even with all the apps, I still had poa popping up. I unleashed hell and increased the cocktail to 6oz of glypho per gallon. I was blown away and pissed at the same time

9/5: PM: Applied Fungicide and Insecticide
Clearys: 2 oz per 1k
Azoxy: 0.2 oz per 1k
Talstar: 0.5 fl oz per 1k

9/6: Applied Tenacity and TNEX(PGR) 
.20 fl oz per 1k of TNEX
1 Teaspoon per 2 gallons of Tenacity

Seed Down: Back Yard

Hell Strip Reno: 1500 sq ft
80/20 TTTF/KBG

16 lbs of the SSS TTTF SHADE MIX
ROWDY
VALKYERIE LS
TITANIUM LS 
GTO

3.2 lbs KBG
BLUENOTE
MAZAMA
BEWITCHED

The overseeding of existing lawn and spot seeding of the bare areas was all with the SSS TTTF Shade mix that was used in the hell strip as well.

The overseed was 7 lbs per 1k
The bare spots were seeded using the Scotts Wizz.

I went pretty heavy with the bare spots. I used the dethatcher was used to scratch up the soil in the bare spots. This is where I feel my concern. I feel that I should have done a better job of it and really beat up those areas.

I rolled in the entire back yard in one direction with the Scag zero turn and roller

I applied the peat moss to the partial Reno and bare spots and ran it over again in a different direction with the mower and roller.

Watered like crazy with the irrigation system. Since it's such a big lot. I have 12 zones and most of the heads are 360's. In order to get the seed and peat wet enough, I have to water each zone for at least 20 mins/3-4 times a day.

9/7: Rained: We got hit with a little
of the hurricane.It certainly wasn't anything crazy Couldn't really do much until the afternoon. I walked around and noticed that most of the bare areas didn't have enough peat since the seeds were exposed. I applied more peat


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

9/8: 
Seed down: 
Front Lawn: Applied a thin layer of top soil to the bare areas:

Overseeded and seeded the bare spots with the SSS TTTF Sun Mix of Millennium, Regenerate, Amity and Raptor III

On the slope: Overseeded and seeded the bare spots with the same TTTF sun mix with KBG(BW, Maz, BN)

7.5 lbs of TTTF per 1K through the entire front lawn
Where the KBG was used : 3 lbs was used to make it an 80/20 ratio

In the front lawn: I ran out of peat moss and couldn't fathom dumping anymore money into the project that I ended up using 4 bales of left over EZ- Tack straw and Binder on the slope. I spread the tack with an old Scott's spreader. It actually worked well and it was much easier working with the easy straw than the peat.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

This is when I start to get crazy and start questioning everything:

I'm starting to see germination happen in the back yard but it's not uniform. Which makes
Me question, did I throw enough seed down? Is there enough peat moss down? Are the uncovered seed or exposed seed going to germinate? Is there enough seed to soil contact?

It's nerve racking.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Looks like a lot of work you did. Best of luck to ya.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

ksturfguy said:


> Looks like a lot of work you did. Best of luck to ya.


Thank you. I certainly hope it works out for the best.


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

You put a lot of hard work in. Give it some more time for germination. With kbg it can take more time. I don't know anything about TTTF. I wish the best for you and it's stressful.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Mrotatori said:


> You put a lot of hard work in. Give it some more time for germination. With kbg it can take more time. I don't know anything about TTTF. I wish the best for you and it's stressful.


It's certainly is stressful!! It's crazy how much you question yourself when all said and done. I read other people journals and see fantastic results with quick germination, you just want the same.


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## Mtsdream (May 2, 2019)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> This is when I start to get crazy and start questioning everything:
> 
> I'm starting to see germination happen in the back yard but it's not uniform. Which makes
> Me question, did I throw enough seed down? Is there enough peat moss down? Are the uncovered seed or exposed seed going to germinate? Is there enough seed to soil contact?
> ...


My reno is doing the same thing, for me it is my watering and shady areas popped up first, im also impatient.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Haha ya definitely don't stress. I seeded a very similar mix as you. It was 4.5 days for germination on my TTTF mix and really Day 5 when it was more widespread. For the Mazama KBG it was basically day 6 when it started being more widespread. Your good and seem right on pace as the rest of us.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

My soil tests came back in April showing that I was low in P and K. I spoon fed my lawn with Lesco starter fert 18-24-12 for 2 months (May/June) to hopefully get those levels up. Do you think the low P and K have something to do with the slow start? I was planning on use the same starter fert once the grass really germinates(hopefully) in a couple weeks.

Does exposed seed germinate? I'm still trying to wrap my head around the overseed portion. Even though it's compressed into the existing turf, does it have enough to germinate? Same goes with the seed that has a light peat application that is starting come up to the surface?


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> My soil tests came back in April showing that I was low in P and K. I spoon fed my lawn with Lesco starter fert 18-24-12 for 2 months (May/June) to hopefully get those levels up. Do you think the low P and K have something to do with the slow start? I was planning on use the same starter fert once the grass really germinates(hopefully) in a couple weeks.
> 
> Does exposed seed germinate? I'm still trying to wrap my head around the overseed portion. Even though it's compressed into the existing turf, does it have enough to germinate? Same goes with the seed that has a light peat application that is starting come up to the surface?


I think you might get a little better germination when the seed is slight covered with soil or peat but yes seed on top of soil as long as it's contacting the soil will germinate. One of my reno areas this year I got 1.5" of rain and it pretty much wash all my peat moss away on Day 3. Still got very good germination in those areas where the seed it's self wasn't washed away.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

It's been a week since seed down: 
We had a warmer than usual day yesterday and last night. I got home from work yesterday afternoon and couldn't believe what a difference a few hours made.

These are pics from this morning. The growth isn't uniform yet like I hope but I'm sure by this weekend, I'll get more pop.

I'm already forecasting a trouble spot where the ez tack is. Unfortunately with the way my irrigation is set up, that spot gets hit with water quite a bit. I've tried to figure out some ideas but if I redirect the heads or cut down on the watering time, I'm basically robbing Peter to pay Paul.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

9/5/19- Seed Down












9/13/19

Seed has popped like crazy last couple of days.

Seed is even growing in the sprinkler head.

Having an issue with that big bare spot. 3 different irrigation heads are hitting from 3 different zones. I was able to put up a small mini fence around the heads when they are on the verge of spraying that area. I'm thinking if going to help, since now only 1 head is hitting it. I don't have the best drainage in that spot.

How long would it take for seed to rot or go bad from over watering? I am having germination but it's not much compared to the other areas.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Front lawn was seeded on 9/8/19:

Took slight different approach and used ez tack with a small layer of top soil in the bare areas. Seed is starting to pop through already.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

9/15/19

More filling in today


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Looking great... love seeing reno photos!


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Stuofsci02 said:


> Looking great... love seeing reno photos!


Thank you. It was an insane amount of work but it's paying off now. There's definitely a few bare spots that's I'm going to overseed.


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## jdc_lawnguy (Oct 30, 2018)

Looking good @Scagfreedom48z+ temps are looking perfect here in New England this week. That grass should start to thrive.


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## jessehurlburt (Oct 18, 2017)

I'd be patient. It has cooled down drastically in the last 2-3 weeks and you're going to have slower germination with the cooler night temps. I did an overseed in mid august and had very good germination at day 5. I did some more spots last Saturday with the same seed and only saw a few green babies yesterday when I checked around (day 7).


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

jdc_lawnguy said:


> Looking good @Scagfreedom48z+ temps are looking perfect here in New England this week. That grass should start to thrive.


Thanks man. Yeah we've been very lucky with the weather. We haven't had any crazy storms or wash out type weather. I've been happy overall with the germination rate and there's certainly more coming


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

jessehurlburt said:


> I'd be patient. It has cooled down drastically in the last 2-3 weeks and you're going to have slower germination with the cooler night temps. I did an overseed in mid august and had very good germination at day 5. I did some more spots last Saturday with the same seed and only saw a few green babies yesterday when I checked around (day 7).


The germination has been great. The only part that isn't growing well is the spot that is constantly soaked, to the point that it pools and if you step on it, it brings up water.

I was able to deter the amount of water going to those spots so things have been drier. I just think that given what I have had with the germination so far, that either the seed has drown or it's rotted. That's what is pushing me to throw down more seed in that spot.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

9/3 after 2" cut and heavy dethatch


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Today 9/24

Cut to 2.2.5 HOC with the reel mower

.40 lbs per 1k of starter fert with the scotts wizz

The lighter spots are the bare spots that were killed off with glypho and reseeded with the overseed of the rest of the lawn.

Should get darker with more weekly apps of starter fert and urea


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Tenacity 11 days after germination?


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

I put down Tenacity the day of seed down


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Oh. I read wrong. I read Scott starter.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Another shot of the front lawn:

9/8 seed down 


9/24 today after 
After 2.25 HOC and .40 lb of starter fert per 1k


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

Looking good


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

9/5/19 vs 10/19/19


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## Mrotatori (Aug 13, 2018)

Looks great, you did a good job


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Mrotatori said:


> Looks great, you did a good job


Thank you. All that work is finally starting to pay off. I've hit with 4 spoon feedings of starter fertilizer in the last 4 weeks


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Front Lawn mowed today: 2.5" HOC. Rotary mow of 16k. Let's just say that I got my exercise in today.

9/8/19






10/20/19


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## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Looking really good. Nice work!


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Stuofsci02 said:


> Looking really good. Nice work!


Thank you. I'm taking it easy on the turf. I can probably stress it a little more but I don't want to chance it. I cut it 3 X's using the manual push reel mower and 1x with the rotary mower. Great exercise but takes a chunk of time out of a morning. I'm holding back on using the heavy zero turn on the young grass. My Scag drops gorgeous strips so it's tempting...


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Be patient, you're doing the right thing. :thumbup:


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Chris LI said:


> Be patient, you're doing the right thing. :thumbup:


It's hard! But I know it's for the better. It's like being a kid and getting a nice pair of sneakers. You can't wait to show it off! Lol


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Final app of MicroGreene and Humic12 @ 4oz per 1 M

HOC = 3"

Leaf Pick Up with the bagger tractor

Some of my lines are not straight. My main objective today was to get the leaves picked up


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Definitely worth doing the spot kill and the overseed. A lot of work, but it paid off.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Green said:


> Definitely worth doing the spot kill and the overseed. A lot of work, but it paid off.


I agree. It was a ton of work physically and mentally. I was fortunate that we had a fantastic fall with very little heavy rains.

This is what it looked like in Spring 2019, riddles with Poa T and bentgrass. Stands out like a sore thumb with the light green. I'm sure I didn't kill it all off but moving forward it's much more manageable when having to battle Poa or bentgrass


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Today from the same view


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> I'm sure I didn't kill it all off but moving forward it's much more manageable when having to battle Poa or bentgrass


Sam here. I'm also beginning to wonder if I planted more of it with my grass seed that I used to redo the spots in the Spring, because I'm finding some new plants coming up. Or, maybe they were just at the border of the areas I sprayed.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Green said:


> Scagfreedom48z+ said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure I didn't kill it all off but moving forward it's much more manageable when having to battle Poa or bentgrass
> ...


I sprayed about 4-6" beyond the Poa or bentgrass when killing it off, just to give me better odds. This spring will be interesting as to what I will find.

Where did you buy your seed?

I coughed up a good chunk of $$$ for seed through SSS. It at least gives me a better peace of mind that the seed I threw down wasnt contaminated. Looking back at all the labor it took, I'm glad I spent the extra money on the seed.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Definitely can relate to your process here: kill the spots with the bad stuff. Work like crazy to get your turf back up and running in these areas. Looks like things turned out well for you. 
I can't even see the spots with new grass


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Scagfreedom48z+, the TTTF came from Hogan and United. The KBG from United and Hart. Most of the KBG was sod quality, but not all. The PR was from Hart and United. Everything was Blue tag and 0/0. KBG seed is usually where Triv seed comes from. Supposedly TTTF can have Poa annua, but Triv isn't as likely. My Ryegrass seed had Annual Ryegrass contamination.

Hopefully there was little or no Triv seed, and what I'm seeing is from stuff that was already growing. I'll continue pulling it. I'm ok with some gaps this year over Winter if it means getting rid of some more bad stuff.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

social port said:


> Definitely can relate to your process here: kill the spots with the bad stuff. Work like crazy to get your turf back up and running in these areas. Looks like things turned out well for you.
> I can't even see the spots with new grass


Thank you. It certainly was a lot of work but not it's showing it's worth. You can see the domination line in this pic. The section to the right hand side that is left to the walkway was all killed off. Was nothing but Poa and bentgrass in that section. It was seeded with kbg and sss shady tttf mix. I'm sure the color will really kick in next year. The rest of the backyard/kill spots was overseed with tttf


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