# Best fertilizer for over seed?



## Olkutty (Jul 12, 2019)

So, I dug up an old thread that suggested using just P and K, and holding off on the N until the new grass is established. The makes complete sense to me, but I want to see if anyone else has some thoughts on this? I have less than 2 weeks to get my fertilizer lined out. I did a soil savvy before I knew the legitimacy of the results. So, for now, it's all I have. 


With that being said, I'm having a hard time finding sulphate of potash(at a reasonable price that is) for my potassium source. And I haven't even begun looking for a phosphorus, or nitrogen for that matter, when the seed is established.


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## Babaganoosh (Apr 21, 2019)

Don't over think it. Use a starter fert about 10 days after germination. Then 30 and 60 days after. I like to go with less than bag rate but to each his own.


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## Olkutty (Jul 12, 2019)

Babaganoosh said:


> Don't over think it. Use a starter fert about 10 days after germination. Then 30 and 60 days after. I like to go with less than bag rate but to each his own.


Over thinking is what I do. I mean, there is a 365 page thread on this forum on spray nozzles. Lol


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

You can use a store bought starter like scotts. Even if it has N. The only issue is you'll be pushing top growth of the existing grass when it would be best for it to be growing slower so as not to crowd out the new seeds. If you can try and get a fertilizer with a high P number. If you can get straight TSP that would be good. I'd recommend picking up a bag of urea or ammonium sulphate for your nitrogen source after the seed has germinated.


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## kaptain_zero (Jun 2, 2018)

Based on your soil test and your yard being around 3400 sq. feet, I'd just pick up any ol' bag of starter fert at a box store. Some of them are even, such as 20 20 20, but many have a lower N and higher P and K. As the others have mentioned, don't over think it.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Olkutty said:


> So, I dug up an old thread that suggested using just P and K, and holding off on the N until the new grass is established. The makes complete sense to me, but I want to see if anyone else has some thoughts on this?


Yes, when doing an overseed, withholding N until after the new seedlings are up will help prevent the existing grass from going into overdrive and crowding out the new seedlings.

It's more work to locate a fertilizer with P and no N, so most folks don't bother with it.



SNOWBOB11 said:


> You can use a store bought starter like scotts. Even if it has N. The only issue is you'll be pushing top growth of the existing grass when it would be best for it to be growing slower so as not to crowd out the new seeds. If you can try and get a fertilizer with a high P number. If you can get straight TSP that would be good. I'd recommend picking up a bag of urea or ammonium sulphate for your nitrogen source after the seed has germinated.


+1 on everything that SNOWBOB11 says above. There is one thing that I would add -- Olkutty, just a note to be careful if you go into a store and ask for "TSP" -- there is a common hardware store chemical, Trisodium Phosphate (usually just called TSP) that is commonly used to clean walls in preparation for painting, as it is a great mildew remover, particularly in conjunction with chlorine bleach. You do NOT want to put Trisodium Phosphate on your lawn. Well, not unless you want to kill all your grass. 

Make sure that you ask for Triple Superphosphate (which is also regularly abbreviated TSP) and get the correct stuff. Triple Superphosphate will usually be labeled as a 0-45-0 fertilizer.

However, I notice that Olkutty's profile lists the grass type as "KBG." Personally, I think that doing overseeds with KBG into a stand of KBG is a waste of time. I've tried overseeding a few times before - it wasn't just a waste of time, but was a step backwards for the lawn. You will get far better results for a KBG lawn if you instead do the aggressive program of the "Fall Nitrogen Blitz" and apply a fall pre-emergent to prevent weeds. I've done that before, too, and been FAR happier. What are your goals for your overseed?

PS: I was looking for pictures of your lawn in prior posts and didn't find any giving an overview of the lawn. However, I did bump into your garage photos. Wow! Nice garage setup!


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## Olkutty (Jul 12, 2019)

ken-n-nancy said:


> Olkutty said:
> 
> 
> > So, I dug up an old thread that suggested using just P and K, and holding off on the N until the new grass is established. The makes complete sense to me, but I want to see if anyone else has some thoughts on this?
> ...


Im very new to the forum. Thank you for all of the information. I will take it fully and utilize it.

As far as my profile goes, I had to put something. I have no clue what my lawn is. Mostly a mix of seed I've purchased over the years. My plan is to use my sun joe, and scarify the daylights our of it. I did a small area in the front a month ago, and it thinned it out so well with ease. A complete reno scares me because I could spit and hit the houses on each side of me. I bought a bag of gci tttf seed and it's patiently waiting in the garage.

And thank you for the garage comments. It's my fav room of the house! 🤓


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

One thing about a soil test, don't pay too much attention to the nitrogen numbers. They can fluctuate a lot depending on rainfall, temps and a bunch of other stuff. Your P and K is definitely low so boosting that will be a benefit. Your iron (Fe) is low but could be due to the higher pH. Wouldn't worry about that either although hitting the lawn with some milorganite apps would boost that.

As @ken-n-nancy said, overseeding KBG is a really big challenge. Due to it's slow establishment the new seedlings have an extremely hard time competing with the existing KBG. Some folks have had success using growth regulators to give the new seedlings a better chance. You would likely be better doing the nitrogen blitz and getting the KBG to fill in. If you have bare spots you could start some KBG in pots and use those as plugs to help fill them in.

The overseed guide I posted is mainly for TTTF so if that is what you will be using you can follow that.

I replied to your PM about the fertilizer but thought I would add it here for future visitors. I get all of my fertilizer from a local farm feed and seed store. They have quite a lot of options so if you do a little math you can get exactly (or at least really close) to what you need to keep nutrient levels balanced. There I can get stuff like 10-10-10, 34-0-0, 0-25-25, 0-45-0, 0-0-60 so it really gives you a lot of options to customize your fert program. Plus, it's a lot cheaper than buying the brand name stuff at the big box stores and you actually get what you need.


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## Olkutty (Jul 12, 2019)

I figured I'd add some pictures. Like I stated previously, it's a "mix-n-match" of grass. My plan is to thin it out completely with my scarifier, and seed TTTF from here on out.


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## Olkutty (Jul 12, 2019)

Just picked these up for $15 total. They had muriate of potash, and I was tempted, because of how cheap, but don't want the chloride issue. So my search for SOP continues.


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## troksd (Jul 27, 2018)

I treat my seeds with Fish Hydrolysate and Sea Kelp. Tank Mix 1 oz 2-3-1 Hydrolysate + 1 oz 1-1-10 Sea Kelp in 32 oz spray bottle. I mist the seed with this mixture 2 consecutive days prior to seeding.


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## rtdad (Jul 13, 2019)

Babaganoosh said:


> Don't over think it. Use a starter fert about 10 days after germination. Then 30 and 60 days after. I like to go with less than bag rate but to each his own.


wait, so you don't put down starter fert when seeding?


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## NJ-lawn (Jun 25, 2018)

rtdad said:


> Babaganoosh said:
> 
> 
> > Don't over think it. Use a starter fert about 10 days after germination. Then 30 and 60 days after. I like to go with less than bag rate but to each his own.
> ...


Most people when overseeding wait, like he said 10 days or so. If you fertilize at seed down your existing grass will take in the fertilizer and out compete the new seedlings. Unless you apply a PGR to the existing lawn then I'd throw seed down n fertilize at same time


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## rtdad (Jul 13, 2019)

NJ-lawn said:


> rtdad said:
> 
> 
> > Babaganoosh said:
> ...


Wow I never knew. Thanks! :thumbup: 
Whats a PGR? :?


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## NJ-lawn (Jun 25, 2018)

It's a growth regulator.....https://www.domyown.com/tnex-p-16595.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjtCtlrLW4wIVkZ6fCh0brwYkEAQYAyABEgKhQfD_BwE

It slows down the growth of your grass. Has other benefits also. Type in pgr in the search and you will find a lot of info.


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## Olkutty (Jul 12, 2019)

After searching all day, I think the most cost effective product to buy for a potash is this; 
https://www.domyown.com/turfgrasspro-29-p-17266.html?rrec=true


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Olkutty said:


> After searching all day, I think the most cost effective product to buy for a potash is this;
> https://www.domyown.com/turfgrasspro-29-p-17266.html?rrec=true


In general, the most cost-effective places to get products such as urea (46-0-0), or ammonium sulfate (21-0-0), or sulfate of potash (0-0-50) is a farmer's supply. I can understand how such stores can be hard to find in New York City or Los Angeles, but it seems to me there must be some farms within an hour of you in Missouri. (Actually, I just looked on Google maps, and it seems that Troy, Missouri is surrounded by farmland. Try doing a google search for "troy missouri farm supply store" -- looks to me that Troy Feed and Mercantile, Orscheln Farm & Home, and MFA Agri Services all seem really hopeful for bulk fertilizer purchases.)

If there are no farm supply stores, then sometimes the products can be found at a home garden store, although I speculate that's probably where the Hi-Yield brand products above came from. If you can find a farmer supply store, then 46-0-0 and 21-0-0 will probably be about $12-$18 for a 50-pound bag. Sulfate of potash (0-0-50) will often be a little more expensive, usually about $25-$35 for a 50-pound bag.


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## Olkutty (Jul 12, 2019)

ken-n-nancy said:


> Olkutty said:
> 
> 
> > After searching all day, I think the most cost effective product to buy for a potash is this;
> ...


There are a ton of farm stores, co-ops, tractor supplies, rural Kings , etc, all around me. I literally searched them all. They all looked at me like I had 3 eyes. None could even get it. (Supposedly).. We are a huge farm area. I would have thought it would be easy as well.


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## Olkutty (Jul 12, 2019)

Just posting this as a reference also. Just found this on another post.

https://www.greenwaybiotech.com/products/potassium-sulfate-0-0-53?variant=4459785473


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

Olkutty said:


> There are a ton of farm stores, co-ops, tractor supplies, rural Kings , etc, all around me. I literally searched them all. They all looked at me like I had 3 eyes. None could even get it. (Supposedly).. We are a huge farm area. I would have thought it would be easy as well.


Wow, I find that really surprising. I wonder if they call it something different? Some folks know it only as 0-0-50, or sulfate of potash, or potassium sulfate. I would think there'd have to be some farmers using it in Missouri.

That said, most farm crops use 0-0-60 (Muriate of Potash aka Potassium Chloride) instead since it is cheaper, but some crops can't tolerate the chloride, such as potatoes, tobacco, and almonds, so Sulfate of Potash is used on those crops instead.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@Olkutty Talk to a farmer friend. They will know where to find urea or ams for cheap. 50lb for $20 or less.

Advance Turf Solutions does carry AMS and Urea. Also, ask in the hometown forum to other MO members (or STL).


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## jha4aamu (Oct 16, 2017)

@Olkutty have you tried hummert int?


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## Olkutty (Jul 12, 2019)

jha4aamu said:


> @Olkutty have you tried hummert int?


No. It's about an hour away. I stayed closer yesterday. I ended up buying some from the last link I posted. Once that runs out, I'll just get it from turf solutions. Thanks for the reference though.


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## Olkutty (Jul 12, 2019)

g-man said:


> @Olkutty Talk to a farmer friend. They will know where to find urea or ams for cheap. 50lb for $20 or less.
> 
> Advance Turf Solutions does carry AMS and Urea. Also, ask in the hometown forum to other MO members (or STL).


I actually found ams extremely cheap after I had bought the bag I bought. The sop was the challenge.


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## NJ-lawn (Jun 25, 2018)

I'm surprised those co ops won't order whatever you need. I have an agway near me. If they don't have something they will order it


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