# Observations: Lawns fertilized during late Fall



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

I think I have enough observations to notice a trend: lawns that got additional Fall fertilizer late or a winterizing application that was too early according to wisdom, seem to be greenest right now. I'm basing this on:

-A section of my yard that I winterized a bit early

-Another section of mine that I spoon fed with liquid apps through the entire pause

-Another section I have where I put down a high rate of Carbon-X during October

-A guy who works for a lawn/landscape company and winterized his lawn in early or mid November

-A neighbor who winterized around mid Nov (2 houses down)

-Two other lawns that were winterized around mid to late November, and fertilized in early Oct before that

-A municipal lawn that was fertilized in late Oct

In every single one of these cases, the grass is keeping its color better than the lawns that were winterized after growth stopped, not winterized at all, or that haven't been fertilized at all this Fall. Many of these lawns did seem to grow a bit more than those that used a pause period, but not a huge difference I don't think.

The exceptions to this observation that I noticed are the following (but they may be explainable or expected results when you read the details of the situations below):

-My neighbor who has chemlawn, which dropped approx. 0.75 lb of fast release N in late Oct (but had not been fertilized for several months before that due to aeration and overseeding). That said, the color of their lawn is keeping pace roughly with mine (which was mostly winterized after growth stopped or almost stopped on Nov. 30th).

-Another neighbor (L.) who applied his winterizer on Nov. 11, about a week before I applied even my first area (which faced North like his front yard). His color is roughly equal to mine (but his lawn was even browner after his 2nd to last mow when he dropped the fert).

In light of these results, I think it would be good to ask ourselves whether adhering to a full ~6 week Fall pause is really the best option or not. Further study/evaluation seems warranted.

Another thing that seems to be helping color, is lawns with Western or unobstructed Eastern light exposure. Mowing height seems to have had a slight effect, but I'm not sure it'd be statistically significant if you analyzed the color diffs. Grass species seems to have had at best, a minor or minimal effect (with some types of Tall and Fine Fescue losing color more rapidly than other species in some cases).


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Great information, and observation on your part! Can you keep track of additional progress towards the dead of winter, early spring, and spring? I'm curious to see what the results will be. My thoughts on your observations so far are:

- what you're seeing seems to follow what we (I) would think the application during 'the pause'. It keeps the plant growing/greening. I'm not sure if this is necessarily good, as the grass needs to slow down on its own, and that application forces growth.

-I think that the winterizer app after top growth ceases, will yield better results in the spring (more vigor before spring app), because the N should be utilized by the roots instead of the foliage. Hence, the lack of extended fall/winter green, now.

-after hearing at least one person on TLF applying late season Fe, I think I might try it next year to extend greening during 'the pause' without adding any N.

Thanks again for the info. It really gets me thinking.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@Chris LI

Hi Chris. Similar thoughts here. Here are my responses:

-of course I'll keep an eye on all of those areas.

-I wonder if the continued greening is necessarily bad. Here is why...

When I was new to all this, I heard reports from more experienced people at the time that the winterizer app kept their greener through Winter. I only experienced this at most twice out of 8 years, I believe.

In Soldat's podcast on winterizing, they debate this.

I don't recall ever seeing more Spring damage in those lawns, but I'd be wary that it might make snow mold worse, especially in shaded areas. Many of these same lawns get good light exposure, so it may be less important, or even synergistic with the N.

Not all of these lawns grew more. The ones that are longest now seem to be the ones that got a full 0.75 to 1.0 lb of N in the last week of Oct or first week of Nov, AND had a Sept app with slow release (like I did) as well.

The grass seems generally to start browning a few weeks before it stops growing. I think this observation may be really important in all this and the timings.

The mid November winterized lawns, though 1-2 weeks early this year (depending on light exposure) seem to have faired the best as far as compromise (minimal to no extra growth but great color even now)

I also wonder how much of winterization timing should depend on growth/soil temp, versus day length/light as well. Just an aside.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

All good points. I look forward to your upcoming observations.

I have an interesting observation to throw into the mix. When I was making my Bioplex 5-3-1 app somewhere shortly after 7/4, I dropped a 'test mound' about the diameter of a grapefruit in my backyard. Even with a strong fall N plan (weekly 1 lb. urea apps [.5 N]), all of those areas have faded, but the one app of biosolids has continued to green the area. I will be upping my use of Bioplex/biosolids next year. I think too many folks are working themselves away from Milo and the like with new products, but they are very effective (and cost effective) on a small scale, and can be incorporated to some extent on a large scale.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Chris LI said:


> All good points. I look forward to your upcoming observations.
> 
> I have an interesting observation to throw into the mix. When I was making my Bioplex 5-3-1 app somewhere shortly after 7/4, I dropped a 'test mound' about the diameter of a grapefruit in my backyard. Even with a strong fall N plan (weekly 1 lb. urea apps [.5 N]), all of those areas have faded, but the one app of biosolids has continued to green the area. I will be upping my use of Bioplex/biosolids next year. I think too many folks are working themselves away from Milo and the like with new products, but they are very effective (and cost effective) on a small scale, and can be incorporated to some extent on a large scale.


Not surprising. I've read that biosolids can take a long time to finish cycling...

-Lawns that are new to it or have low microbial activity

-Lawns with high microbial action when high rates are used

In both cases. 6+ month release curves wouldn't be unheard of.

I am leaning more toward applying higher amounts of slow release organics in a single app, as well.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Green said:


> Not surprising. I've read that biosolids can take a long time to finish cycling...
> 
> -Lawns that are new to it or have low microbial activity
> 
> ...


This year, I really held off on summer N apps (basically to reduce the likelihood of fungus), as opposed to previous years when I applied milo a few times. Disease pressure might have been a little lower, but turfgrass quality was significantly lower. Multiple Milo apps(or similar biosolids product) will resume its place in my plan for next year.


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## Methodical (May 3, 2018)

Chris LI said:


> ... I think too many folks are working themselves away from Milo and the like with new products...


My soil test dictates that I stay away from any additional phosphorus (i.e. Milorganite) and therefore need to go with other organic food that provides the same benefit, but without phosphorus. I would bet that is the case for many on this forum.

Have you had your soil tested?


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Chris LI said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> > Not surprising. I've read that biosolids can take a long time to finish cycling...
> ...


I did the same this summer I and had the same result. I also will resume a little Milo and corn meal this upcoming summer.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Methodical said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> > ... I think too many folks are working themselves away from Milo and the like with new products...
> ...


No, I haven't had my soil tested, but plan on it for next year.

I really haven't applied much P over the last year or so, and I don't plan on overloading the biosolids, but plan on lighter apps every 2-3 weeks. However, I am curious as to what the soil test results will be.

Was your P level high due to Milo apps or another source of P?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Chris LI said:


> Was your P level high due to Milo apps or another source of P?


Mine has gone up nicely over the last 8 or so years with about 2 lbs of N from biosolids per year, plus some starter fertilizer, TSP, lots of leaf mulching, and a bit of compost.


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## JERSEY (Sep 9, 2018)

I can say with certainty, the higher fertilized lawns on my street, stayed greener so far.
The one guy who stopped fert in oct got brown early.

My observations are similar to yours Green.....but sometimes we got to keep quiet on here, some people think they know it all.
I think sooo much depends on where you live, the soil type and nutrients available.

I got sand under the 1 to 3 inchs of dirt here. So i learned to Fertilize often.....otherwise you can look like all the barron front spaces with moss and weeds around here.

Most everyone sodded here. I dropped cheap seed...worked great since the sandy soil gobbles it up. But no fert? It just remained weak.

Im big on nitro....why? My sand has no nutrients.....under 2 to 4 inchs.....

Pics from 1 month prior to moving in, new septic system

GOT SAND?????


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

JERSEY said:


> I can say with certainty, the higher fertilized lawns on my street, stayed greener so far.
> The one guy who stopped fert in oct got brown early.
> 
> My observations are similar to yours Green.....but sometimes we got to keep quiet on here, some people think they know it all.
> I think sooo much depends on where you live, the soil type and nutrients available.


Agreed, but it has nothing to do with people on here (this site) in my opinion. More to do with upsetting the pro and University guys and their tried-and-true methods (which ours are based upon). Most of those guys don't post here, and the ones who do read or participate are the more open-minded ones, who I like hearing from, and learn a lot from.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Update:

Now, most of these lawns that received either early or accurately-timed Winterizing Nitrogen, are fairly equal in terms of color...probably within one standard deviation if I had to guess.

This tells me that maybe timing really is not as critical as we thought for a final, late app (i.e. that you must wait until growth has effectively stopped, or soil temps are around 40. That idea is being challenged, and fairly, I think).

An interesting one is the lawn next door, which was fertilized with (roughly I believe) 0.75 lb/M of fast release N by Truegreen in late October. Back in November and December, the color was definitely worse than my lawn. But now it looks about equal after some mid January green-up. I'm pretty sold on a mid to late October app in my area now, potentially as a substitute for traditional final winterizer timing, now that I've seen this and the other lawns/areas that were fertilized around the same time of year. I decided to pay extra attention this year after having a suspicion about this in the past.

Much more in the way of thoughts and observations to come this Winter...


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Noticing yet another pattern...

East-facing lawns that are free of shade are retaining their color the best and have the most growth this Winter. This goes for both my own yard and neighborhood properties. There is a definite trend. I wonder why this might be. They don't get sun for the entire day; I thought South-facing areas got more sun hours than East-facing areas. Maybe the morning sun is stronger or there's an effect of time of day that the sun hits based on temp fluctuations and plant metabolism...?


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## Methodical (May 3, 2018)

Chris LI said:


> Methodical said:
> 
> 
> > Chris LI said:
> ...


Mine was from using Scotts all of those previous years before the state passed a law on the use of it. I guess that stuff stays in the soil a long time. Mine is right at the limit.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Late Feb update:

Despite the middle third of this Winter having been warmer than usual (and the ground not being frozen as much as usual), lawns are showing increased above-ground dormancy now. It is probably at its peak currently. All lawns in the area are pretty brown for the most part right now, no matter what Fall fertilizer they received, though of course the fertilized ones tend to be less brown than others. This is also despite a good amount of rain and very little snow. I guess the low night time temps as well as short days still induced dormancy, despite the daytime highs having been well above freezing for the most part.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Green said:


> Late Feb update:
> 
> Despite the middle third of this Winter having been warmer than usual (and the ground not being frozen as much as usual), lawns are showing increased above-ground dormancy now. It is probably at its peak currently. All lawns in the area are pretty brown for the most part right now, no matter what Fall fertilizer they received, though of course the fertilized ones tend to be less brown than others. This is also despite a good amount of rain and very little snow. I guess the low night time temps as well as short days still induced dormancy, despite the daytime highs having been well above freezing for the most part.


Thanks for the update.

I am seeing some more dormancy now, too. After looking at my backyard and commenting in another related thread (the 15% ,dormancy comment), I took another look at the front yard and noticed a couple of things:
1. The east side yard by the RV which gets shaded in the afternoon is beginning to fade in the shaded portion (no surprise).
2. The sunny main front seems to be bipolar. It's green, but not exactly. Some blades are green while other adjacent blades are not (salt and pepper). This would be the typical dormancy we see, but just as it starts to fade, the color comes right back (relatively speaking), when we get those multiple 50*+ days we've been seeing. Being a little south of you closer to the ocean (which has stayed warmer this year), accounts for the differences you and I have observed, but I think the trend is definitely similar.


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## Vtx531 (Jul 1, 2019)

Mine was still pretty green before we got dumped on 5-6" of snow yesterday/today. I noticed a little bit of browning along the edge of driveway. Maybe my two late aerations helped- the very edges didnt get any holes punched. I'll take some pics when the snow melts. It is supposed to warm up on Sunday.


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