# Clay soil topdress



## devils27 (Apr 17, 2021)

So my Bermuda is literally falling apart, I just moved to NC from NY and this clay soil has me confused. I know they say not to overseed Bermuda but I have to try to fill in 2x2 size areas along with trying to help the clay soil along after 10yrs of mistreatment. My issue is what to topdress the red clay soil with with seeding? Just compost mix? or a compost/Topsoil mix? I read sand is a no no with bad clay lawns so I don't need more issues.

Anyone have any expertise with topdressing and existing Bermuda lawn?


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Aerate the crap out of it, and get some organic matter in there and lots of nitrogen. Make several passes with the aerator. Rinse and repeat.


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## burnhagw (Oct 17, 2019)

Sand is perfectly fine on NC clay. I sanded my whole yard last year and will be doing it again in two weeks probably. Aerate it, and throw down some sand and topsoil mix on that area, when we hit the 80's+ the grass will spread like wildfire. And of course fertilize it the whole yard.


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

My thoughts exactly @SCGrassMan ! Aerate it to heck if you actually want to incorporate OM into clay soil. It's too tightly packed to allow much of any infiltration otherwise. 
If you're into spraying & praying then the liquid Humics and surfactants may be worth considering, but the ROI may not be measurable, at least not in the short run.

If you're needing to give your Bermuda a foothold to grow into try a garden weasel in those patchy areas, work up the dirt well while mixing in some good compost in there (Mushroom Humus, for ex). Or go with the Mirimichi CarbonizPN biochar/compost mix from siteone of you don't mind stepping it up! Feed the turf & the stolons will def find those areas and dig in.

Welcome to the south btw!


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Agreed, welcome to the South! (And please remember why you left NY)

I have a lot of clay as well, but I have a small yard. I'm honestly thinking about scraping the whole front yard off, getting rid of some clay, and starting over with TifTuf instead of Zeon.

Depending on yard size and budget, that might be a one time 1-5k expense you can tolerate to just make it right.


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## Sbcgenii (May 13, 2018)

Organic material prevents the flow of water nutrients and air to the roots. Don't aerate and then fill the holes with OM that would be pointless.

You don't need to seed a 2x2 section of Bermuda that will fill in no time with water fert and regular mowing.


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

Sbcgenii said:


> Organic material prevents the flow of water nutrients and air to the roots. Don't aerate and then fill the holes with OM that would be pointless.


That's if you can get water/nutrients/air to even get down to the roots at all !! Our clay soils get so hard & compacted that nothing can penetrate, it just locks everything out. Deep core aeration is about the only way that we can drive oxygen & water & nutrients deeper than 1", and topdressing with OM after aeration creates an ideal retention area for these inputs to stay and not run off. Sure, you'll have to deal with what you're describing but by then hopefully the turf has rooted enough.


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## rbvar (May 28, 2020)

Wouldn't aerating and then filling + capping with sand provide the mechanism to get water and nutrients into the root zone, and the surrounding clay holds it there? Isn't the issue with clay that it's less permeable? What benefit does adding OM provide?


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

rbvar said:


> Wouldn't aerating and then filling + capping with sand provide the mechanism to get water and nutrients into the root zone, and the surrounding clay holds it there? Isn't the issue with clay that it's less permeable? What benefit does adding OM provide?


If you subscribe to the "get your soil right" belief where you try to get your soil to become a living and self-sustaining ecosystem (as opposed to being solely depended on your inputs) then an appropriate % of OM is a necessary component of that. While sand will allow for infiltration properties it does not offer any carbon deposit where microbial life can thrive and expand. In a heavy clay soil with little OM adding some will allow for the soil to become alive again and to sustain life on its own. If you want ultimate control of the turf growth, then grow on sand.


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## devils27 (Apr 17, 2021)

I was reading edu sites and it seemed like the amount of sand needed to make a serious dent in the clay soils composition is measured in tons. So based on all these responses. Seems like best idea is to aerate, rake up the cores, and replace area where cores were with compost and maybe a little bit of sand, but mostly compost. Sand may help a bit with water pooling but do nothing for the actual soils composition, so maybe I'll just add a little bit of sand per cubic foot of compost. I think I got it. Thanks guys


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## Sbcgenii (May 13, 2018)

Most people use over a ton per 1k every time they level.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

Sbcgenii said:


> Organic material prevents the flow of water nutrients and air to the roots. Don't aerate and then fill the holes with OM that would be pointless.
> 
> You don't need to seed a 2x2 section of Bermuda that will fill in no time with water fert and regular mowing.


Who told you that OM slows water and nutrients more than packed clay? They lied to you.


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## devils27 (Apr 17, 2021)

corneliani said:


> My thoughts exactly @SCGrassMan ! Aerate it to heck if you actually want to incorporate OM into clay soil. It's too tightly packed to allow much of any infiltration otherwise.
> If you're into spraying & praying then the liquid Humics and surfactants may be worth considering, but the ROI may not be measurable, at least not in the short run.
> 
> If you're needing to give your Bermuda a foothold to grow into try a garden weasel in those patchy areas, work up the dirt well while mixing in some good compost in there (Mushroom Humus, for ex). Or go with the Mirimichi CarbonizPN biochar/compost mix from siteone of you don't mind stepping it up! Feed the turf & the stolons will def find those areas and dig in.
> ...


Are you talking about "Mirimichi Green CarbonizPN Granular Soil Enhancer? The 50%compost and 50% biochar stuff? I mean I couldn't afford doing the whole yard with strictly that stuff but I could by 3 bags of it and add a bit to the compost if you think it will make a difference


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## devils27 (Apr 17, 2021)

Sbcgenii said:


> Most people use over a ton per 1k every time they level.


I don't need sand for leveling purposes, I really am just looking for the best option or ratio of products to use in heavy compacted red clay to improve its quality after aerating. Im just debating sand bc some people say it's good while others say it's bad and will cause worsening compaction.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

devils27 said:


> Sbcgenii said:
> 
> 
> > Most people use over a ton per 1k every time they level.
> ...


I will say this much, I did aeration and leveling twice with sand. I wouldn't say it made compaction worse, but it didn't make it much better.


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

@devils27 That's exactly the stuff I'm talking about. It's not cheap, that's for sure, but if you give credence to any of the biochar sequestration attributes and the benefits it offers then this product seems perfect for what you're trying to achieve. It essentially acts as a sponge for water, nutrients, and microbial life to hangout in while the turf fills in. At least that's how I've come to understand the theory of it.

I like your idea of mixing both the Mirimichi and the compost together, especially if you're planning on doing the whole yard, but make sure to put eyes on the compost first. Even the bagged ones (Black Kow, etc) are not very clean/spreadable and may be more intended for planting mixes than topdressing - they tend to be clumpy and wet, generally speaking. Landscape suppliers sometimes have bulk Mushroom Humus that can be very fine grained and easily spreadable (about $65/cy but ask how well cured it is.. sometimes its hot), and there's always Soil3 from SuperSod ($175/cy, 'guaranteed' weed free), but I've found that none of them compare to the finish of the CarbonizPN product. Just my experience. But from a volume perspective bulk compost is your best value, for sure.

Edit: here's a side-by-side of BlackKow and CarbonizPN that i used yesterday in my shrub planting soil mix. I only throw in a shovelful of CarbonizPN in the wheelbarrow, for reference.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Sand is not going to increase your compaction. What sand will do that OM soil won't over the long haul is decompose within the clay causing the compaction to return. What I've done is find the longest largest drill bit I can for areas like that on clay (they make an auger you can get on Amazon that is as large as 2 or 3" in diameter and core drill as many holes as possible. Then back fill the area with coarse sand. You are going drastically increase deep water penetration in that area because the sand medium will continue over the years to allow water to infiltrate that area and won't break down continuing to leave a path for water to make its way in. As Bermuda as Bermuda spreads and grows the roots will also follow that same downward path. After a few seasons that sand will be black with organic matter that will occur naturally from root cycling. This is a picture from my lawn that has a very large 8+" of sand cap on top of red clay. I've never added organic matter, the sand will become rich in


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## devils27 (Apr 17, 2021)

Cool. Thanks. I'll use some sand too but I know I need Om. I could make a clay bowl from my soil, it has literally no OM. I'll see what I can find compost wise since I can't afford a whole yard with just the biochar stuff.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

devils27 said:


> Cool. Thanks. I'll use some sand too but I know I need Om. I could make a clay bowl from my soil, it has literally no OM. I'll see what I can find compost wise since I can't afford a whole yard with just the biochar stuff.


What exactly will adding the OM be doing for you in this circumstance? If you want a professionals advice see if @Greendoc could chime in on a prescriptive way to handle this.


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## devils27 (Apr 17, 2021)

Well, since it's literally just red clay and no actual "soil", om would help make it more of a "living" soil. I can't spread seed onto hard packed clay and expect any good results, I need some sort of "base" soil to seed on. I'm open to any and all suggestions


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

devils27 said:


> Well, since it's literally just red clay and no actual "soil", om would help make it more of a "living" soil. I can't spread seed onto hard packed clay and expect any good results, I need some sort of "base" soil to seed on. I'm open to any and all suggestions


If you have Bermuda you don't need seed, you just need sun, water, fertilizer and patience the surrounding Bermuda can easily fill a 2x2 area on its own. Just strictly speaking clay is soil , sand is soil , loam is soil . Clay has OM in but focusing on OM as if it's going to provide magical powers to the grass on top is chasing something you can't catch. Golf courses thrive on sand and then have to turn around and pull cores and top dress because the OM builds up so fast naturally it needs to be removed. Also let it sink in that in a lot of the south out food is grown in straight clay soil on farms.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Remove that clay and sand the area. If I ever have a bare dirt yard containing mixtures of clay with or without organic matter incorporated, my next call would be to a bulldozer operator and a trucking company to haul away the first 2 ft of that clay. That would then be replaced with sand. I will not spend money on magical products in bags or bottles containing "organic matter" or humic of varying types in an attempt to change clay. The clay is gone.


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## bwhitaker (Apr 11, 2019)

100% Agree with what @HungrySoutherner is saying. I'm in georgia and my soil is literally clay and sand(1.4% OM, 3.6 CEC according to my soil test this year).

You don't want to be seeding bermuda, if you have any bermuda near by(it sounds like you do since this is a 2x2' area. I would look into plugging, or just do the coarse sand addition, drilling probably the best thing honestly but it's time consuming over a large area.

I had a section that was nearly 2k sqft fill in 85% over 2 seasons, 60+% of that was in 1 season.

This is all one season.


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## devils27 (Apr 17, 2021)

The 2x2 areas will fill in, I agree now. Its my backyard has nothing growing in a 30x50ft area, not even weeds. This is after a heavy rain. Otherwise there are usually huge cracks from how clay-like it is. There is no screwdriver in the world that can go more than 1in deep in this, it's like concrete. I got a soil test coming back Tuesday that will tell me how much OM is in the soil, my guess is that it's low, along with everything else. I'm basically just looking for the best option, to make this "concrete", suitable for seeding after an aeration (if proper aeration is even possible to this stuff)


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## devils27 (Apr 17, 2021)

I want to fill the aeration holes with something that #1 will help the "soil" become suitable and healthy in the long run for seeding and #2 assist with water drainage, because i can watch water literally bead off this stuff. And oh yeah, it's on a slope to add to my problems. That's why I said a sand/compost mix might be best to get the best of both worlds


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## bwhitaker (Apr 11, 2019)

devils27 said:


> I want to fill the aeration holes with something that #1 will help the "soil" become suitable and healthy in the long run for seeding and #2 assist with water drainage, because i can watch water literally bead off this stuff. And oh yeah, it's on a slope to add to my problems. That's why I said a sand/compost mix might be best to get the best of both worlds


I believe the answer to all 3(improve soil composition/health, assist with drainage, and stay put on a hill) is coarse sand


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## devils27 (Apr 17, 2021)

Greendoc said:


> Remove that clay and sand the area. If I ever have a bare dirt yard containing mixtures of clay with or without organic matter incorporated, my next call would be to a bulldozer operator and a trucking company to haul away the first 2 ft of that clay. That would then be replaced with sand. I will not spend money on magical products in bags or bottles containing "organic matter" or humic of varying types in an attempt to change clay. The clay is gone.


Call me an idiot (I might be) but Would a truckload of sand work in the long run for providing a base for Bermuda? I mean do I just seed on the sand? There no OM in sand so what nutrients would the grass draw from besides fertilizer put down. Or do I put sand down as a base and then put something on top of it, like Topsoil, compost... This is all new for me, NY had decent soil, this clay is throwing me way off


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

Well, I'm going to bow out of this conversation as I'm already in deeper water than I like to be. I am in no position to make anything other than end-user opinions, however well researched they may be. Research can bring up opposing positions though so I guess we pick what we feel comfortable with. In the end the answer may be a commitment to one direction or the other. There's an argument for sand as a means to aid in compaction & infiltration, and a valid argument to _excess_ OM leading to swampy soils. But the lack of any OM is also a space void of microbial life and a self-sustaining soil. I guess it's valid to point out that the objectives of a golf green are different than a home lawns in regards to self-sustainability and OM. Personally my objective is to build a yard that does not require my constant inputs, and I wonder if that's not a preferred objective of golf superintendents.

Just for kicks here's the USDA's take on OM in soils (https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detail/national/newsroom/features/?cid=nrcs143_023543)



And here's a short comment on how much OM to have in heavy clay soils, according to SARE.ORG
(https://www.sare.org/wp-content/uploads/Building-Soils-For-Better-Crops.pdf)


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Truckload of sand. Spoon feed your nutrients as needed. Please get out of the mindset that growing high quality grass is based on dirt loaded with nutrients. It is an entirely different game. When talking about regularly mowed grass, the name of the game is control. YOU having control over nutrient uptake rather than loading soil and expecting grass to pick it up. When you grow grass on soil, high organic matter soil, or even clay, you lose too much of that control.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

devils27 said:


> The 2x2 areas will fill in, I agree now. Its my backyard has nothing growing in a 30x50ft area, not even weeds. This is after a heavy rain. Otherwise there are usually huge cracks from how clay-like it is. There is no screwdriver in the world that can go more than 1in deep in this, it's like concrete. I got a soil test coming back Tuesday that will tell me how much OM is in the soil, my guess is that it's low, along with everything else. I'm basically just looking for the best option, to make this "concrete", suitable for seeding after an aeration (if proper aeration is even possible to this stuff)


If this is the area your planning on seeding don't . There is already Bermuda in that clay. It just needs water , sun and fert to spread. Bermuda isn't like fescue Or kbg. We don't seed Bermuda to propogate it , it's self propagating and will spread faster if you just learn to care for it and push it to spread


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## devils27 (Apr 17, 2021)

Thanks for educating me on the 2 schools of thought. I'll probably just go somewhere in the middle bc I can't decide on which is best for my lawn but I duely appreciate all the research and thought people put into the topic


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## johnklein25 (Apr 22, 2021)

I believe you said you're waiting on soil test results. I wouldn't do a thing until you get that. You might have a serious pH issue in that patch where nothing is growing. I think pH and compact soil can be related. pH goes bad, plants start dying, micro organisms and worms bail out, soil gets compacted, etc. There is nothing particularly wrong with "clay soil" but if it isn't treated/cared for properly it is probably a little harder to fix it vs sandy soil where water and nutrients can flow thru faster.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

It can be a lot harder to move the needle regarding nutrients and pH in a more clay containing soil. That effort is delayed by wasting time and money on things besides correcting the core issue. What benefit people see from adding organic matter in most cases is related to the NPK contained in the material unless they are adding the organic matter in the form of unadulterated peat moss. Everything else when it is in the form of composts and manures will contain 0.5 lb or more of NPK per 1000 sq ft when applied at even topdressing rates. At soil amendment rates, that number jumps to 1 lb or more of NPK.


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

It's not the NPK value of compost that intrigues me personally @Greendoc , it's what it does to encourage microbial life and the subsequent breakdown of OM that these microorganisms engage in, creating humus out of that OM and eventually leading to soil flocculation as that humus coats the clay particles. This theoretically should allow for better water infiltration as well as overall soil tilth.
Sand has its own benefits but from what I read it needs to be a minimum 70:30 sand/clay ratio in order for that sand base to have the benefits espoused (per an NCSU article). So when we choose sand as a top dressing (soil amending?) medium it's really something that we need to commit to going forward. And irrigation is a must at that point!


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I have seen addition and application of organic matter not only fail to solve problems but go on to make new ones.


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> I have seen addition and application of organic matter not only fail to solve problems but go on to make new ones.


I vaguely remember one of my first attempts at planting shrubbery into this clay soil ... mixed a 50/50 mix of "topsoil" into the existing clay and it turned into soupy mush once water was added. Seems drainage is a must for this mix to work, and that probably what you're alluding to. 
🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

If not a soupy, swampy mess, increased incidence and severity of disease related to excessive retention of moisture. This is contrary to the psuedoscience of "microbes" that many talk about. Rather than introducing supposed beneficial microbes, all that has been done is create a situation where disease is promoted.


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## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> If not a soupy, swampy mess, increased incidence and severity of disease related to excessive retention of moisture. This is contrary to the psuedoscience of "microbes" that many talk about. Rather than introducing supposed beneficial microbes, all that has been done is create a situation where disease is promoted.


I'll take a living clay soil over a dead one every time. My experience with the practice of adding organic matter to clay soils doesn't match the one you describe, though I can fully understand how this is a situation where more is certainly not always better.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Bermuda_Rooster said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> > If not a soupy, swampy mess, increased incidence and severity of disease related to excessive retention of moisture. This is contrary to the psuedoscience of "microbes" that many talk about. Rather than introducing supposed beneficial microbes, all that has been done is create a situation where disease is promoted.
> ...


You bring up a great point but I'd ask at what point in your experience with the living clay concept because of organic matter have you been able to abandon NPK because your soil and microbiome are so productive that you don't need to intervene to keep the turf quality high? In your experience at what point in that process where the biome is active did you know you've established it such that it becomes a self perpetuating machine feeding the plants during the growing season and then being fed after the root cycle happens? I've heard a lot of people discussion about living soil and supplementation with organics and microbes but haven't seen anyone speak to a threshold they have reached where the system is cycling on its on and they aren't intervening.


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## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

HungrySoutherner said:


> You bring up a great point but I'd ask at what point in your experience with the living clay concept because of organic matter have you been able to abandon NPK because your soil and microbiome are so productive that you don't need to intervene to keep the turf quality high? In your experience at what point in that process where the biome is active did you know you've established it such that it becomes a self perpetuating machine feeding the plants during the growing season and then being fed after the root cycle happens? I've heard a lot of people discussion about living soil and supplementation with organics and microbes but haven't seen anyone speak to a threshold they have reached where the system is cycling on its on and they aren't intervening.


I don't think there is such a point for a turfgrass monoculture. It will always need inputs no matter how healthy the soil is if you want to maintain a very high quality lawn.

I think the critical point is when you no longer have chronic deficiencies and are getting adequate air and water penetration to the root zone, so the only inputs required don't demand any real precision. My goal has always been to get my lawn to the point that I'd just throw down a few hundred pounds of various feed grains each year, not worry about what the NPK value was, and mow. I started getting close after 3 or 4 seasons in one house in East TN but moved before I totally got to realize it. I've never really been anywhere long enough to live with an established lawn for more than a few years so I'm always starting over and building from dead dirt. I hope to be in this place for much longer.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I see you are using some kind of a reel mower. Control of responses to inputs and predictability of overall grass behavior is key to success. Organics mean ceding almost all of that control and predictability. I can see it working on rough cut, minimally maintained areas where expectations are extremely low.


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## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> I see you are using some kind of a reel mower. Control of responses to inputs and predictability of overall grass behavior is key to success. Organics mean ceding almost all of that control and predictability. I can see it working on rough cut, minimally maintained areas where expectations are extremely low.


Eh, just a manual reel, and I'm planning to maintain at 0.75" to 1". So while my margin for error is lower with the reel, it's not like I'm shooting for greens height. And you know what? This may not work out for Bermuda like it did for TTTF. I'm prepared for that.

For me, this is more like a philosophy than an impressive or even a strategy. I like the idea of soil-first landscape maintenance, and I think it mostly works if you're committed. But I haven't been fully organic with this yard yet, and don't care if I never am if this doesn't work as I want it to.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Ok. I approach turf from a tried and true point of view. I look at what I can rely on. Deviating from tried and true makes things more difficult and high maintenance vs not re inventing the wheel. Soil to me, is what grass or plants put its roots into. Nothing more or less. I can grow plants and grass on what starts out as sterile sand, No addition of anything "organic" to that sand required. But, no harm in trying something as long as the cons are understood and accepted.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Not that I have any choice here but I am a sand man myself. There's bermuda growing through the cracks in the parking lot asphalt at my kids school. I think my -sand on top of sand- yard is pretty habitable.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Redtwin said:


> Not that I have any choice here but I am a sand man myself. There's bermuda growing through the cracks in the parking lot asphalt at my kids school. I think my -sand on top of sand- yard is pretty habitable.


Bermuda grass origins are in dry sand warm soil. So it's in its natural habitat


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Redtwin said:


> Not that I have any choice here but I am a sand man myself. There's bermuda growing through the cracks in the parking lot asphalt at my kids school. I think my -sand on top of sand- yard is pretty habitable.


You mean that sand did not get buried in several inches of imported clay. "because grass needs soil".


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

Well, you all are making quite a case and I just may have the perfect situation to go ahead and try this! 
@HungrySoutherner is there a particular soil auger bit that's recommended foe this type work? You mentioned Amazon earlier. I need to drill some 'piers' down into the soil in parts of my yard as well before aeration/topdressing.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

corneliani said:


> Well, you all are making quite a case and I just may have the perfect situation to go ahead and try this!
> @HungrySoutherner is there a particular soil auger bit that's recommended foe this type work? You mentioned Amazon earlier. I need to drill some 'piers' down into the soil in parts of my yard as well before aeration/topdressing.


Search Amazon for "auger drill bit for planting" they have them up to 3" diameter and in different lengths . That's what I've used and drilled as many holes as deep as possible and then filled with sand. Water it in to get it to settle and top dress with more sand till the cores won't hold any more sand. If you've never done this before you will be surprised at how quickly the clay starts to rehydrate without collapsing everytime it rains or you irrigate. The sand will hold those cores open and allow water to continue to penetrate and Bermuda will spread in much faster or just plug into the areas. There are large machines that replicate this process for renovating older putting greens on golf courses where organic matter needs to be removed very deep and fresh sand inserted to improve drainage and make the greens more predictable for nutrient input


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

PowerPlanter


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## Lawn Whisperer (Feb 15, 2021)

HungrySoutherner said:


> There are large machines that replicate this process for renovating older putting greens on golf courses where organic matter needs to be removed very deep and fresh sand inserted to improve drainage and make the greens more predictable for nutrient input


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## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> You mean that sand did not get buried in several inches of imported clay. "because grass needs soil".


I'm growing in clay because I have clay. Not my preference. I'm not interested in wholesale replacement. If OP wants to do that, more power to him.


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## rbvar (May 28, 2020)

What size auger would people say hits the sweet spot of effectiveness, price, and ease of use?


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## marcjw (Aug 28, 2020)

What about leveling with sand if you have clay soil? Leveling with "dirt" doesn't seem to have the same effect when trying to reel mow. Will there be moisture issues if you don't deep aerate beforehand?


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## Tmank87 (Feb 13, 2019)

marcjw said:


> What about leveling with sand if you have clay soil? Leveling with "dirt" doesn't seem to have the same effect when trying to reel mow. Will there be moisture issues if you don't deep aerate beforehand?


Dirt will breakdown and degrade and no longer be level. If you want to level, use sand.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

Lawn Whisperer said:


> HungrySoutherner said:
> 
> 
> > There are large machines that replicate this process for renovating older putting greens on golf courses where organic matter needs to be removed very deep and fresh sand inserted to improve drainage and make the greens more predictable for nutrient input


Yep. That is the beast machine for deep cores and fill. Does wonders for renovating turf with to much organic matter.


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## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

Tmank87 said:


> marcjw said:
> 
> 
> > What about leveling with sand if you have clay soil? Leveling with "dirt" doesn't seem to have the same effect when trying to reel mow. Will there be moisture issues if you don't deep aerate beforehand?
> ...


This. I'll be leveling with sand on top of my heavy clay this Summer.


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## HungrySoutherner (May 29, 2018)

rbvar said:


> What size auger would people say hits the sweet spot of effectiveness, price, and ease of use?


That really depends on how much space you are trying to cover and what your tolerance for watching grass repair is. There are different schools of thought 1 would be 1.25" to 2" diameter holes spaced close and deep as possible back filled. If you can tolerate the appearance I've done the 3" diameter holes 2.5' to 3' backfilled and spaced evenly and that worked really well on the hard clay areas from the new construction and then over the last 5 years have built up a 8+" sand cap on top. My turf is significantly improved, more predictable and drainage is very good now. I did the deep cores in the first year mostly before I could get the turf built up on a solid sand camp to address immediate drainage. I pays dividends.


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## marcjw (Aug 28, 2020)

Thanks...yeah don't see many ways around it when it comes to leveling. Didn't want to get off topic just wanted to make sure.


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## Erickson89 (May 3, 2020)

I'll add my two cents for working with clay soil as a GA native.

For your backyard, depending on how much time you have there's a very easy and free way to build up your clay again and make it come back to life: arborist wood chips (the wood chips that come from a tree removal company; i.e unprocessed wood chips that are all different shapes and sizes. I have a few spots in my yard where I wanted to prepare the soil for planting down the road so I covered them in 3-5 inch layer of arborist wood chips. Over the course of a year, the clay went from rock hard to butter. I can easily stick a shovel in the ground all the way and "cut" the clay like butter. There's a nice layer of dark, rich OM on top of the clay and I see tons worms and insect life in the clay as well. When it comes time for planting our apple trees, I'm just going to use a heavy duty tiller from HD and mix the remaining layer of wood chips into the ground, plant, and then recover with fresh chips. I did this for our blueberry bushes and they have done amazing so far.


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## Rooster (Aug 19, 2019)

Erickson89 said:


> I'll add my two cents for working with clay soil as a GA native.
> 
> For your backyard, depending on how much time you have there's a very easy and free way to build up your clay again and make it come back to life: arborist wood chips (the wood chips that come from a tree removal company; i.e unprocessed wood chips that are all different shapes and sizes. I have a few spots in my yard where I wanted to prepare the soil for planting down the road so I covered them in 3-5 inch layer of arborist wood chips. Over the course of a year, the clay went from rock hard to butter. I can easily stick a shovel in the ground all the way and "cut" the clay like butter. There's a nice layer of dark, rich OM on top of the clay and I see tons worms and insect life in the clay as well. When it comes time for planting our apple trees, I'm just going to use a heavy duty tiller from HD and mix the remaining layer of wood chips into the ground, plant, and then recover with fresh chips. I did this for our blueberry bushes and they have done amazing so far.


I've heard that before, and it is surprising how fast wood chips break down and enhance the soil structure and life. My much slower solution for an already existing lawn's soil is wood heating pellets. They'll swell and break apart when it rains, basically turning to sawdust that can then fall down into the canopy.


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## DeepC (Aug 12, 2020)

Erickson89 said:


> I'll add my two cents for working with clay soil as a GA native.
> 
> For your backyard, depending on how much time you have there's a very easy and free way to build up your clay again and make it come back to life: arborist wood chips (the wood chips that come from a tree removal company; i.e unprocessed wood chips that are all different shapes and sizes. I have a few spots in my yard where I wanted to prepare the soil for planting down the road so I covered them in 3-5 inch layer of arborist wood chips. Over the course of a year, the clay went from rock hard to butter. I can easily stick a shovel in the ground all the way and "cut" the clay like butter. There's a nice layer of dark, rich OM on top of the clay and I see tons worms and insect life in the clay.


Thanks for telling us about that. I may try to do that in my flower beds instead of mulch. I have been wanting to get rid of all the red dyed mulch. Do you see any issues with that? Is it possible to get termites being up next to the house?


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## Erickson89 (May 3, 2020)

Thanks for telling us about that. I may try to do that in my flower beds instead of mulch. I have been wanting to get rid of all the red dyed mulch. Do you see any issues with that? Is it possible to get termites being up next to the house?
[/quote]

I would highly recommend going the natural wood chips route. They look clean and if you like them up deep enough they're actually spongy since they don't compact like processed wood chips. I don't have them next to the house, but I haven't noticed any issues with termites around the property and I have about 30 yards spread across 4 areas.

I'm attaching a photo of where we put our blueberries and where I'm going to put our apple tree. I dumped a half a yard of free top soil from the county and tilled it in. The photo with the chalk on the fence you can see the super dark spots; that's from the previous wood chips breaking down over the last year. We put the blueberry bushes in about 2 months ago and they've already drown about 6 inches so I think they really like the soil.


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

Lawn Whisperer said:


> HungrySoutherner said:
> 
> 
> > There are large machines that replicate this process for renovating older putting greens on golf courses where organic matter needs to be removed very deep and fresh sand inserted to improve drainage and make the greens more predictable for nutrient input


There was a similar machine at the auction sometime last year ... if it wasn't such a crazy purchase I'd have picked it up! Instead I found a hydraulic greens aerator and am planning for a few aeration/sand topdressing events this year. It does seem we've crossed more into Soil Remediation vs just a simple topdress that the OP inquired about. 🤷🏻‍♂️😝


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## sam36 (Apr 14, 2020)

Lawn Whisperer said:


> HungrySoutherner said:
> 
> 
> > There are large machines that replicate this process for renovating older putting greens on golf courses where organic matter needs to be removed very deep and fresh sand inserted to improve drainage and make the greens more predictable for nutrient input


THIS. Where can i get THIS at???


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## Madao (Sep 23, 2021)

My neighbor had his driveway covered in wood chips . 
Apparently free from signing up online (chipdrop) for arborists needing to empty their truck. Only downside is not predictable on when you'll come come to a pile of wood chips.


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## devils27 (Apr 17, 2021)

Update*. I know this topic is old but may still be educational and I was the OP. So I ended up aerating and topdressing with compost mix (compost, carbon pro g, humic acid) and it brought my lawn to life, I went from crap brown spotty lawn, to best lawn in the neighborhood all summer long within a matter of 3 weeks. It literally woke up the Bermuda in late May and it was great ever since.


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## acmccart8 (Jun 30, 2020)

A couple things to unpack here.

First, that misconception about clay is common. All my neighbors who have leveled were afraid to use sand and they are paying for it now by having to relieve every year or so since the material they used decomposes so quickly. I used pure sand on my Bermuda clay yard in central nc last year and it has held perfectly so far with no issues.

The other thing is to fix the area. This time of year the Bermuda is slower so you may not have it completely fixed until early summer next year. But if you buy a pro plugger and plug the spots it will fill in very quickly. We have some mid to upper 80s coming this week so if you do it this weekend and water it a lot, it will root and start filling in before the temps drop too much. Definitely a better option than seeding unless you know your exact cultivar of Bermuda and can match it exactly, otherwise colors and blade thickness and growing heights may not match with the new seed compared to the rest of the yard.


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