# Complete renovation on 3 acres



## lonemedic (Feb 20, 2018)

I just wrote the subject down and I think I am already in over my head.

Hi everyone. I am new here to posting but have lurked on and off for awhile. Learned a lot but still need help.

I am looking to completely renovate about 3 acres of lawn on my property.

Quick back story. I purchased the property about 3 years ago. Located in 6a (suburbs of Detroit, MI). We did a complete renovation on the house and we are just finally settling in. Now I get to work on the lawn. The fun part! The current lawn is some type of barn yard grass mixed into whatever the previous owner found cheap and in bulk at the local tractor supply store. Needless to say, I want to completely kill it and put down something new. The ground is hard and packed (don't think it was ever aerated). Also, there is no irrigation. The property is surrounded by many trees. But on the property, the trees are mostly cut down and I would say 80% of the lawn is exposed to more than 8 hours of sun. The remaining 20% is on a hill and it gets maybe 2 to 4 hours of sun. Immediately in front of the house, is about 20k sqft of land that has new fill dirt that was delivered and needs to be graded. That area needs immediate attention as there is no grass there, just dirt.

I love low reel cut lawns. I have been looking for some Toro reelmaster mowers on Craigslist and will hope to get one soon. I love to golf so I would love to be able to chip around my yard.

My plan is to grade the front of the house that is just dirt and seed with either a PRG or ***. Then once I get a good handle in that section of the property, I will move onto the other parts of the property and renovate those sections. I don't want to do the whole thing as I think I will be way over my head.

My questions: I heard that I can use vinegar to kill the existing grass rather than glyphosate. My wife urges me to not use glyphosate especially since we would have to use it on so much land and she doesn't think it's safe for kids to be around that much of it. I rather not fight her on it if I don't have to (pick my battles). Would using vinegar work? Would it be cost effective? Can I dilute it so it wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg?

I want to try and get away with not using irrigation. I am hoping I can get away with just having nature water my lawn. Will that work if I cut low? Will PRG or *** work well in this case? Would one work better in my case?

I think to start off, I would cut with a rotary cutter as low as I can. I have an ex-mark zero turn now. I eventually want to get a reel cutter and get it down to 0.75" to 1" if possible. Would cutting with a rotary down to 1.5" be ok in my conditions? Can I go lower without killing? I'm ok with a little yellowing during hot months. I'm not going to be picky especially since I'm not irrigating. Also, I don't have neighbors to compare to so it wouldn't be terrible if my lawn wasn't super lush. But during raining season I would hope that my lawn would look really good. I just don't want to kill it.

Let me know what you all think. Thanks so much in advance. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Mike


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Welcome to TLF Mike!

I'm not a cool season guy, but you caught my attention at 3 acres. I'm anxious to follow your progress!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Welcome.

So I will go straight to the point. What is your budget?

Do you want to maintain all 3 acres at reel low? If funds are not a problem, then the first thing you will need is a triplex (expensive) for the 3 acres. A reel low lawn means more frequent mowing (~3x a week). Pgr helps, but it will take time.

All grass types will need water. [email protected] will survive ~3 weeks without water, but then it needs it. You will need a way to water it during a drought. The water requirements are higher at reel low.

During a reno, you need to keep the seed moist, so that means a way to irrigate it. Do you have a well?

You will also need a way to apply chemicals. Pgr goes down every 3weeks. Fertilizer and herbicides and fungicides will need to be used. Will the wife approve?

Round up will be more cost effective than vinegar. I don't have experience with vinegar and don't know how effective it is. Unless the kids are standing next to you when you spray, the risk are greatly exageranded. Actually, the fruit/vegetables/grains you eat will likely expose you more to round up than applying it. https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4070275

Rotary at 1.5 will work if the ground is very leveled. Any dips will cause the blades to hit the ground and scalp it.

I think the first thing is to address the bare area in your front lawn. Apply tenacity (control weeds) and seed with kbg now. You need to keep this area moist until germination and during the summer for it to survive since it is young.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

By the way, to me this is required reading for a +1 acre Reno. Pete has provided a lot of information and his thought process for the choices he made.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=436


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

Honestly I was in the same boat. 3.5 acres.

First thing I'd do is a soil test and amend the soil and feed what's currently growing. It might surprise you how decent a little nutrients can make a great lawn bounce back.

In the fall if you still have the need or want to seed I'd wait for a period of rain and overseed some rye as you don't have an irrigation system.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

I think your going to have a difficult time renoing the lawn without a irrigation system. Especially if your using KBG. Unless you can somehow time it exactly with a three week period of often rainfall it's going to be an uphill battle to get the seeds to germinate. If there is no way to irrigate you might consider just overseeding what's there already in the fall and hope for the rains to come.


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## GrassFarmer (Sep 21, 2017)

Ya thats alot of water just over 81,000 gallons to get a inch of water out there. but if you got the water available big gun sprinklers cover a 200-600ft circle and do a pretty even coverage including the center.


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## GrassDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

I've never done a reno that large, before you do *anything* with glyphosate, make sure you have your grass seed in hand. You don't want to kill it all off and find out something got back ordered or lost in the mail.


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## FlyMike (Aug 27, 2017)

If you want to keep the seeds watered, but without the expense of getting an irrigation system installed you could look into hose timers. I'm not sure if that will work for the whole 3 acres, but if you are thinking about doing it in sections at a time, it is definitely doable.

I used a 2 timers, one with 2 outlets and one with 4 outlets, when I did my renovation last year. It made it super easy for me to keep everything moist without having to worry about it, especially when I was gone for days at a time.


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## gene_stl (Oct 29, 2017)

https://www.bigsprinkler.com/catalog/traveling-sprinklers/reelgreen-model-rg20-traveling-sprinkler

1100-1300 for their smallest model with a 130 foot range. 30 foot radius.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Here are some references on using Vinegar, and you can find more easily with Google.

https://extension.umd.edu//sites/extension.umd.edu/files/_docs/programs/ipmnet/Vinegar-AnAlternativeToGlyphosate-UMD-Smith-Fiola-and-Gill.pdf

https://www.everydaycheapskate.com/home-and-family/hands-down-the-best-way-to-kill-weeds-and-its-not-roundup/

https://www.rodalesorganiclife.com/garden/vinegar-weed-killer-danger


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## lonemedic (Feb 20, 2018)

I would say my budget is 8 to 10k. I could go more if I have to but I don't want to. I'm ok with looking for a used triplex.

Thanks for the info on the glyphosate. 
The wife will be ok with responsible use of chemicals and fertilizer.

If I were to go with an irrigation system, can I make it so that I can dump chemicals/liquid fertilizer into the system somehow? I would like to save some time where I can considering I have to care for so much land.

Has anyone heard good things about reveille hybrid bluegrass seed? Reading about it, it might be a good fit for me. Can be cut low and has good drought tolerance (possible no irrigation)?


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## lonemedic (Feb 20, 2018)

I did some more research on the reveille seed and it seems like it gets mixed reviews. Doesn't seem like it gets dark enough, very difficult to germinate properly and quite expensive.

What seed is more drought tolerant *** to prg? What does better in shade, *** or prg?


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## LIgrass (May 26, 2017)

lonemedic said:


> I did some more research on the reveille seed and it seems like it gets mixed reviews. Doesn't seem like it gets dark enough, very difficult to germinate properly and quite expensive.
> 
> What seed is more drought tolerant *** to prg? What does better in shade, *** or prg?


KBG is much better in shade, and slightly better in drought tolerance. PRG is a no go in real shady areas - it will totally thin out within 1 season, but establishment is super easy it's a joke, it's a very nice dark green, and I would say much less weed maintenance.

With your question on putting chemicals in the irrigation system, I don't know much about that but there are leaf blowers on the market that can also disperse chemicals over very large areas.


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