# I think I'm in trouble here...



## Sublime (Jun 15, 2019)

Midwest Labs results









Got some input in Discord but the more info I can get the better.

So far the plan is 5lb/M elemental sulfur every 6 months
1-2lb/M citric acid (not sure how often this needs to be applied)
Switching my N source to AS
Going to be doing foliar apps for iron
MAP (11-52-0) (again, not sure about frequency)
GSR Calcium in an attempt to displace sodium

I also have an email out to Midwest to see how much more it will cost for them to run the soluble salts test.

@Ridgerunner do you see anything else I should try?

None of this is set in stone yet as I want to research all of it before acting. Feel free to tear this apart and tag anyone else who can help.


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## LeeB (Jul 1, 2019)

Wow, why are your calcium levels so high? Are you watering extensively with a hard water source? If so that might need to change.

You need to add K (potash) and Mg (Epsom salt) to compete with the huge amount of Ca. Your soil has a very high CEC so you would expect all the cations to be high. Pay more attention to the ratios of the cations rather than the amounts. Your Ca:Mg ratio is way high at 20:1 (should be about 7:1), so the turf will not be able to uptake K and Mg very effectively. I would not add any more Ca (gypsum or lime).

pH is a little high but not terrible. I would just switch to AS and do a sulfur app and not worry about it too much.

You need to add more trace elements, expect iron and boron. The iron already present will become more available when the pH drops.


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## Sublime (Jun 15, 2019)

LeeB said:


> Wow, why are your calcium levels so high? Are you watering extensively with a hard water source? If so that might need to change.
> 
> You need to add K (potash) and Mg (Epsom salt) to compete with the huge amount of Ca. Your soil has a very high CEC so you would expect all the cations to be high. Pay more attention to the ratios of the cations rather than the amounts. Your Ca:Mg ratio is way high at 20:1 (should be about 7:1), so the turf will not be able to uptake K and Mg very effectively. I would not add any more Ca (gypsum or lime).
> 
> ...


No idea why any of it is the way it is. I've hardly watered at all this year because we've had enough rain to hold me over. Seems like other people in my area also have extremely high levels of calcium. Just the way it is here.


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

@Sublime I'm not a chemist, but as I understand it, adding sulfur can help long term, but don't expect miracles. We live on a limestone bed and the free calcium here is crazy.

I wouldn't necessarily add any more K (except foliar if you want to give the grass some that way - ie potassium sulfate). I wouldn't think adding magnesium would net any benefits either. Both (if added to the soil) will raise your already high pH.


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## Sublime (Jun 15, 2019)

@Spammage thanks for the info. I don't think other issues are more pressing, so I'll just leave K and Mg until the future. Probably just gonna go with my little outline above and keep my fingers crossed.

Although I might be lazy and use turf2max instead of the citric acid and humic. Or might do all of the above including both of those routes. We'll see if any of it helps!


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Not sure what test package you selected, but their S3C (or SC3?) $25.50 includes soluble salts and also Nitrates and might be a better cost option in the future if you need to monitor EC and micros.
Other than sulfur, the results aren't unusual or unexpected for a high pH soil.
As to be expected, Ca is in abundance, but that is what it is and there is plenty for plant use. Mg is present at levels that are above sufficient levels (.150 ppm)and the BS ratio between Ca and Mg (Ca:Mg - 12.5:1) shouldn't create any nutrient issues for Mg availability, but watch Boron and Zinc levels as high Ca can suppress their availability. 
Potassium at 210 ppm is normally considered above sufficiency levels (>110 ppm), However due to the high CEC of your soil, K is only 1.5% BS (preferred is 2-7%). This proportionate imbalance of the Ca/Mg in the soil can reduce K availability to the plant. I suggest you consider additional K to bring BS to around 5%.
Phosphorous is always an issue in high pH soils. Both the Bray P1 and Olsen are predictive of the amount of P actually available to the plant and the results are low in your soil. Bray P2, being a much stronger extract (provides useful results in soils with pH <7) indicates that there is a large amount of P in the soil-but tied up and unavailable to the plant. Comparing the P1 results to the P2 results is often used to determine how much of a P application will be available and how much is going to tie up. Corrective options are to spoon feed P, lower pH: monthly apps of Citric acid, regular annual/biannual/small monthly applications of flowers of sulfur or some combination of the preceding options. The use of MAP will temporarily lower pH around the added P--basically a combination of lower pH and spoon feeding.
The sulfur levels are unusual. I can't recall ever seeing results close to that level in a soil test. Unless there has been a recent elemental sulfur app, a soil test report S levels are a measurement of sulfate. There is no known detrimentally high level for Sulfate, but maybe you are the chosen guinia pig. Sulfate is pretty transient, it fairly readily leaches out of the root zone. At those levels, barring a sampling error, I suggest you check for a sulfide issue (black layer due to anaerobic conditions) just in case. Pull a plug and look for a dark/black layer and the tell tell smell of rotten eggs. Cure is aeration and irrigation for either.
Although Sodium levels are high and can cause plant helth issues, it is more often an issue with soil tilthe. Your levels don't raise red flags as long as Na BS % doesn't exceed 5% (you're at 3.5) and soil isn't consider sodic until levels reach 15%.
Finally, check your water as a source of S and Na. Your provider should have published analysis on line.


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## Sublime (Jun 15, 2019)

Water source highest level detected S 134ppm. Highest level detected Na 88ppm. There was someone else in Discord last night who has the same water source and is very low in sodium.

I did the S1A and S3 options. Will be doing to the S3C complete in the future.

And in short, my game plan wasn't too bad but I should indeed add K into the mix as well.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

> And in short, my game plan wasn't too bad but I should indeed add K into the mix as well.


Yep, but I'd skip the Ca application.


> Water source highest level detected S 134ppm. Highest level detected Na 88ppm. There was someone else in Discord last night who has the same water source and is very low in sodium.


If my math is correct, every 5 weeks of watering one inch would add 134 ppm of S and 88 ppm of Na. That can add up. Soils vary. Even if everything else is similar, differences in drainage/compaction can make for differences in results.


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## Sublime (Jun 15, 2019)

Ridgerunner said:


> > And in short, my game plan wasn't too bad but I should indeed add K into the mix as well.
> 
> 
> Yep, but I'd skip the Ca application.
> ...


I was wondering about the Ca, but that's TGF's recommendation that can supposedly displace a boatload of the Na somehow or other. I'm willing to give it a shot just to see what happens, unless you think the extra Ca would be harfmul.

Thanks again for all the info!


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

LOL. Who am I to disagree with Matt. Adding Ca is a long tested method for displacing Na from cation exchange sites so the Na can be flushed out of the soil. At your present Ca levels, I just don't see more Ca helping significantly to displace the Na. More to the point, as I mentioned, I don't see your Na levels as an issue for concern. Ca will also knock off Mg and K from sites too. If it ain't broke...


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