# Lawn frustration has begun



## Sphero43 (Jul 23, 2020)

I feel my lawn has taken a turn for the worse in the last 10 days. Hoping for some advice to help me get things back on track.

I still need to log my lawn journal for the season, but I've done a good job of keeping up with fertilizer, etc.

My side yard here was a Reno last fall and still looks good except for the very very dry spot next to driveway (can't miss it).







My main front was over seeded last fall and was looking pretty good until recently. In the last few weeks I put down 20lbs/k lime, 2nd round of fertilizer (Flagship), DiseaseX preventative, bio stimulant with humic acid and iron. Weather has been way up and way down this spring going from high 80's for several days down to 50 and rainy all this weekend. After today's mow, this is what I see. Not happy with the color and I see some crabgrass starting. I thought all the rain would be good, but I'm disappointed. Any ideas on what I can do to get it back on track??


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## TheThirstyTurtle (May 3, 2019)

The side yard looks good except for that dry spot. Maybe try to water that spot with a hose if possible for a few days to see if it's just water that's needed there.

For the front, can't quite tell but it looks like there's a bit of debris or thatch in the lawn that's choking the grass. Not sure what your weather forecast is looking like for the next several weeks, but if possible you may want to consider a light dethatching with a Greenworks or SunJoe, if you have access to one, to see how the lawn responds. If you feel it's too late in the spring to do that since the hot weather will be coming soon, then try to prioritize it around early September or even end of August. You've done everything else in the front so it doesn't seem to be a lack of water, fertilizer, etc. Seems to be just debris and dead, matted material sitting in there that needs to be taken out.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Looks like drought stress. The area next to the blacktop gets hotter and dries out faster which is why it looks worse. How much have you been watering/getting rain?


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

bernstem said:


> Looks like drought stress. The area next to the blacktop gets hotter and dries out faster which is why it looks worse. How much have you been watering/getting rain?


^ +1 Have you measured how much rain you've had? Often times we think we get enough rain. Usually that isn't the case - unless you get a downpour that deliver 0.5+". And don't trust weather apps to tell you what is forecasted.

In the really hot weather - 80F+ - the grass is going to need approx. 1.5" per week. Drought sets in pretty quick.

It also looks like you might have some fine fescue in your mix. This is going to check out in the heat.

I don't see any thatch or debris issue.


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## Sphero43 (Jul 23, 2020)

I'll have to check my area's rainfall and do a new tuna can check. I'm sure I'm on the deficient side.

Sadly, I'm not 100% sure what type of grass i have in my overseeded main yard. Before I found you guys and figured some things out I would use the Scott's seed mix. I overseeded with the same seed from my Reno, KBG/PRG. II did wonder about thatch so I took out the rake today and did pull some with a light rake. I'm surprised to pull that up so easily bc I have been mowing twice each week without taking much off all season. How does one prevent thatch when mulching?


Lastly, I'll spray this early crabgrass with the bio advanced all in one weed and crabgrass killer. It didn't die off after the first round. I'd rather not use tenacity bc I don't want a strip of white! If that doesn't work what is my next best course of action?


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## thin_concrete (Sep 11, 2020)

I'm in MA too and have used Drive XLR8 (quinclorac) to good effect on crabgrass here. It doesn't leave the white spots Tenacity does, and I'm good for a single application. May want to consider that.


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## GreenMountainLawn (Jul 23, 2019)

Sphero43 said:


> I'll have to check my area's rainfall and do a new tuna can check. I'm sure I'm on the deficient side.
> 
> Sadly, I'm not 100% sure what type of grass i have in my overseeded main yard. Before I found you guys and figured some things out I would use the Scott's seed mix. I overseeded with the same seed from my Reno, KBG/PRG. II did wonder about thatch so I took out the rake today and did pull some with a light rake. I'm surprised to pull that up so easily bc I have been mowing twice each week without taking much off all season. How does one prevent thatch when mulching?
> 
> ...


That second pic isn't crabgrass, crabgrass isn't that mature yet in Mass I wouldn't think. Also, doesn't look like it either really. Maybe just some type of Fescue or something else that someone can identify. Prob why your first app of weed killer didn't affect it at all.


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## jimmythegreek (Aug 7, 2020)

Thata just wide blade fescue similar to K31. Beleive it or not if you let tttf got it will fatten up the blade amd look like that


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## TheThirstyTurtle (May 3, 2019)

GreenMountainLawn said:


> Sphero43 said:
> 
> 
> > I'll have to check my area's rainfall and do a new tuna can check. I'm sure I'm on the deficient side.
> ...


Yeah, that second pic almost certainly isn't crabgrass, it's way too early in the season for crabgrass to already be sprouting. The 2nd pick looks almost nutsedge-ish, and I could be wrong here but I think it's also too early for nutsedge to be popping up now in MA. It looks like it's some type of grass that got mixed in.

I have something similar in my KBG lawn - a very small spot where somehow some fescue took hold and has been there ever since. At first I thought that was a weedy section as well and tried spraying it with various weed control products years ago which never killed it, because it was actually fescue grass and not weeds. I've just kept it around and it stays in that one spot in my lawn,


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## Sphero43 (Jul 23, 2020)

A non lawn enthusiast would not even notice those blades, but to me that is all I see. I guess I jumped the gun thinking crabgrass bc it is along the sidewalk so I thought maybe the extra heat was causing it so I wanted to be proactive. I'm relieved to say the least!
Interestingly, the dry patch next to my driveway in my Reno should come back soon. My sprinkler guy replaced the head down there a few weeks back and this morning I found it wasn't even close to rotating all the way to the edge. Silly me for not checking his work.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

A thatch rake will always bring up that debris, but that doesn't mean you're bringing up thatch. Lawn thatch is composed of a tightly intermingled layer of stems, leaves and grass roots that aren't decomposing quick enough. This is different from dead clipping that have yet to decompose.

You quite possibly have "some" thatch but I think the root cause of your issue is lack of water. With that said, if you can determine that the grass is getting 1 to 1.5" per week and it still looks the way it does, perhaps a thick layer of thatch is preventing enough water from getting to the soil. If you have a soil probe, you can pull a core sample to take looks at the soil profile. Or, you can dig up a small sample and check.


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## Sphero43 (Jul 23, 2020)

Well if this isn't crabgrass then I don't know what crabgrass is. How mature would you consider this to be? Our 90's heat finally subsided so I was able to spray it with some Spectracide.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Looks like nut grass


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

Nut sedge HATES tenacity.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

No way is the last photo Nutsedge. Way too broad bladed. It *might* be crabgrass or a similar Summer annual. Does it pull out easily and cleanly? Crabgrass does if you pull from the bottom. If not, but it still has that floppy crabgrass texture, it could be a Perennial field Paspalum that reactivated when the temps warmed up.

If the Spectracide stuff (containing Quinclorac i assume) doesn't work in two weeks (no discoloration and wilting evident) and you suspect Paspalum rather than CG, you can try Bioadvanced brand Extreme Crabgrass Killer with Fenoxaprop-p-ethyl as the active ingredient.


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

I need to take a pic of the sedge that I have that looks just like that. I can't say for sure that it's nutsedge, but it is a sedge, and it hates tenacity.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Did you put down a pre m this spring? Did you have either a crabgrass or nut grass problem there last year? It's a pretty heavy invasion for either one so early it has to be a ongoing season issue


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Sphero43 said:


> How does one prevent thatch when mulching?


Organic feeding can help reduce thatch. Other options are to spray Molasses to attempt to increase microbial populations, but for some grass types, thatch may be a problem no matter what you do. FWIW, that doesn't look like too much dead material. When I dethatched my back lawn (5000 square feet) last fall (it had been a few years), I pulled out about 2 yards of dead material.

Did the lawn improve with more water? Some of the more recent pictures still look drought stressed.

That grassy weed does not look like Sedge to me, though I don't know what it is. Sedge has a distinctive triangular shape. Tenacity works well against Sedge, but Sulfentrazone is easily available at box stores and also works.


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## Sphero43 (Jul 23, 2020)

bernstem said:


> Sphero43 said:
> 
> 
> > How does one prevent thatch when mulching?
> ...


I do not feel the lawn has improved with more water. I believe I'm about due for next round of fungicide, which I don't think it is a fungus. Maybe I'll try to hand water that area to see if things improve.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Sphero43 said:


> bernstem said:
> 
> 
> > Sphero43 said:
> ...


Well, it won't be easy to figure out if it's not water. My list of things that look like drought stress, but are not include:
- Summer Patch Fungus
- Fine Fescues from pre-reno struggling in the heat
- Chemical/fertilizer injury (probably not this)

I would still consider water issues. Have you done an audit to know how much water your put down? I don't think it has been crazy hot there, so water loss is probably around 0.2-0.25 inches per day. Maybe less if it has been in the 70s.

What I would do:
- An irrigation audit is the first thing I would do
- Look for disease symptoms on the grass blades
- How much Nitrogen have you applied? What form? When?
- What have you done in the past 2 weeks and what has your weather been like (I'm still stuck on water as a possible cause)


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