# You want how much for a second meter?



## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

I'm planning on installing irrigation this year, along with getting drainage done. I probably should have done this last year, prior to the renovation, but I didn't have the money available. I went to City Hall to find out how much a second meter would be for irrigation alone. Our water bill last year was pretty high, and I'm sure that was in part to my watering by dragging the hoses around, and not being very efficient with the irrigation. I tried as best as I could, and got good results, I'm just not down with dragging around the hoses for 5 more years at least.

The fellow who works with the department who handles the installations wasn't in, so I left my phone number. I missed his call, and he left me a message with the costs: 
1. Tap (which is the meter) - $800
2. Water Impact Fee - $1,654.80
3. Total - $2,454.80. :shock:

For those who had/have had second meters installed, is this in-line with what you paid? I'm in the city limits, which has lower rates than outside of the city limits that are served by the city.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I paid $675 for a 1" tap and a 5/8 x 3/4 meter. A 1" tap and a 1" meter would have cost $925.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I paid around $1000 for the meter and installation but that was 12 years ago. I have a 1" meter BTW.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> I paid around $1000 for the meter and installation but that was 12 years ago. I have a 1" meter BTW.


My municipality doesn't allow deduct meters. I would pay that in a heartbeat.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Sounds about right for my area - I was quoted about $2500-$2800. However, I also found that my water district uses winter averaging, so I don't save any money by installing a second meter. Double check your district doesn't do the same.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

dfw_pilot said:


> Sounds about right for my area - I was quoted about $2500-$2800. However, I also found that my water district uses winter averaging, so I don't save any money by installing a second meter. Double check your district doesn't do the same.


What does the wintering averaging do for your bill? I wish I could talk our local council into something like that. Wishful thinking :evil:


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

The water district takes the average water use from November 1 to February 28 and uses it to determine the sewer rate for the following season. I save about $60/month this way.

ETA: I ran the sprinklers a lot during the first winter we were here as the grass was trying to establish. My sewer bill was $66 higher each month than it was the next year when I didn't water a drop during the winter.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

pennstater2005 said:


> What does the wintering averaging do for your bill? I wish I could talk our local council into something like that. Wishful thinking :evil:


Winter averaging monitors the amount of water you use during the winter months to calculate your sewer fee for the whole year.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

@dfw_pilot @Ware

Thanks. I wish I had some options to lower my monthly summer water bills aside from just not watering.


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## WarEagle26 (Sep 14, 2017)

I was looking into this recently and it looks like I have two options:

Huntsville Sprinkler Meter Options

1) An extra stub off the main line - $510 for 1" meter
2) Completely separate service line - $800 for 1" meter

Both options also require a $70 service charge.

My options seem pretty cheap compared to the almost $2500 you were quoted. I'm still on the fence, though, as to whether or not it's worth the cost. I'm sure in the long run it would be worth it, I just don't have enough data yet to figure out what the cost savings would be and when that break even point would be for me.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

WarEagle26 said:


> I was looking into this recently and it looks like I have two options...


The main advantage of a separate stub/tap would be being able to run the irrigation system with no noticeable pressure loss inside the house. If you plan to run the irrigation at times when no one is using water inside the house, it probably wouldn't matter - just make sure the existing tap is adequately sized to meet the gpm requirements of your irrigation system. Your water department should have a record of what size tap was made.


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## WarEagle26 (Sep 14, 2017)

Ware said:


> The main advantage of a separate stub/tap would be being able to run the irrigation system with no noticeable pressure loss inside the house. If you plan to run the irrigation at times when no one is using water inside the house, it probably wouldn't matter - just make sure the existing tap is adequately sized to meet the gpm requirements of your irrigation system.


Yeah, the vast majority of the time I would probably be running the sprinklers at times when we wouldn't be using water inside the house, but that is an important thing to keep in mind. I'm assuming that since the irrigation system is currently being run without any issues from the existing tap that tee-ing off the main line would be fine as long as I went with the same size pipe (like you said, as long as I wasn't running other things in the house at the same time).


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

The city doesn't do any winter averaging for usage, which would be a great idea, but they're going to get their money any way they can. My understanding is that the *water impact fee* is what the city uses to recoup capital expenses and upgrades to the system, as they only charge this fee for water AND sewer (separately) when a house is connected to either system that the city provides. So if you were going to build a house, you'd have to pay to hook up for the water going in, and another fee for what comes out of the house and into the ground.

I sat down with my handy-dandy Excel spreadsheet and calculated that on average, with our average usage and irrigation guesstimates of 5k calculated with the Water Impact Fee, it would take me 18.5 years to recoup the cost. Without the WIP, 6 years. So it looks like it's not worth it at all as it stands.

What I have considered is going to the city council, and asking if we could do a winter averaging, similar to what you other members have in your locale, but I'd be willing to bet that there's no way they're going to not collect a fee that they can justify by saying I'm impacting the water supply by tapping into the system. However, as a homeowner, it is more appealing to me that I could justify the cost on a 6 year ROI vs 18.5 year ROI. Heck, even the averaging over the winter would be a significant cost savings.

So what would help me have a better idea of actual consumption is those of you who have systems that cover approximately 5,500 sqft, what's your normal usage during your watering months?


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

I work for a general contractor. We build custom 2nd homes for folks to vacation in. I deal with impact fees and building permits all the time.

In my small town that I live in and where I built my own house, the water impact connection fee is $5400. I did not pay that and elected to drill a well against the towns wishes. My well cost me around $8250 but I do not have a $350 water bill every month in the watering months.

I am not sure if that $5400 is what they would charge for a second hook up. They do not do any sewer and water averaging or figuring though.

Sewer is a flat $25 per month with a $3950 impact fee and the water for minimal usage is $42.50 per month with a $5400 impact fee. If you go over on the allotted basic water usage you pay big time.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

So water and sewer (or any utility for that matter) basically have a revenue requirement, which is the total amount of money they must collect from customers to cover all costs, plus a reasonable return on investment if it is investor-owned.

The connection fees, etc. that utilities charge can vary quite a bit because they all have different plans for meeting that revenue requirement. For example, one utility might have high impact fees to keep their volumetric rates and other fees lower, while another may have no impact fee and higher volumetric rates. At the end of the day, the total revenue must simply add up to the revenue requirement to keep the utility in operation.

Winter averaging doesn't reduce the revenue requirement to operate the sewer system, but because sewer rates are most often tied to volumetric water consumption it helps prevent customers who irrigate from paying more than their fair share of the sewer revenue requirement.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Ware said:


> So water and sewer (or any utility for that matter) basically have a revenue requirement, which is the total amount of money they must collect from customers to cover all costs, plus a reasonable return on investment if it is investor-owned.
> 
> The connection fees, etc. that utilities charge can vary quite a bit because they all have different plans for meeting that revenue requirement. For example, one utility might have high impact fees to keep their volumetric rates and other fees lower, while another may have no impact fee and higher volumetric rates. At the end of the day, the total revenue must simply add up to the revenue requirement to keep the utility in operation.
> 
> Winter averaging doesn't reduce the revenue requirement to operate the sewer system, but because sewer rates are most often tied to volumetric water consumption it helps prevent customers who irrigate from paying more than their fair share of the sewer revenue requirement.


Spoken like a true politician 

I kid, I kid. I spoke with the fellow who issues permits, and asked him if there were many people in the city that had separate meters for their irrigation. He said that some of the homeowners who had larger plots did have them, but at one time, the city ran into some issues with the EPD, and they weren't even issuing any taps to anyone. This left builders to hurriedly drill their own wells for subdivisions, who then had the homes tap into the city resources once things got straightened out. He did say that he had issued more permits for secondary taps in 2017 than any year in his tenure. He then suggested that I look into getting a shallow well, for which the permit was only $75.

This appealed to me, so I called around to a couple of shallow well contractors. I did some reading on the internet, watched some videos, and had a great conversation with a very knowledgeable well digger about the topography of the soil strata that we have in our area. Estimated costs ranged from $2k for a 2" well, which in my area wouldn't be feasible to a 3" well at $3k which is typical of the wells that he's installed in my area of town. I have decided that I'll just have to pay the extra every month for the water that I irrigate with. Considering that my ROI is still double digits, I can't really justify the cost at this point. Now if I had a larger area that I was irrigating, it would be worth considering, but that's another story, for another residence.


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## SCGrassMan (Dec 17, 2017)

FWIW, it's about $675 here for a 5/8ths meter... and $2500 to have a well drilled with pump and the whole nine. Something to look into. There are water quality concerns in regards to sulphur smell, iron staining of your sidewalk and driveway, etc. but you could water as much as you want, and you'd just be paying electric to run a small pump.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

One inch water meter with tap is 575$ total. I don't know why the prices are so high for some of y'all. When I had my home built it was 375$ for a 3/4 meter with the tap.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

For me, there was an old existing tap from a mobile home that was once on this property. I had to pay a $75 connection fee and that was it, they put a new meter in there.

However, when I was building my house, they told me it would be approximately $1500 if I needed a new tap and meter put in.

They told me if it involved tearing up part of the road, I would have to pay for that to be repaired also. (He said the pipe to tap into might possibly be across the street ?)

My sewer charges are something like 110% of the water charges, so it quickly became apparent that I needed a separate irrigation meter for washing cars and watering the grass/shrubs.


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## Factor (Oct 10, 2019)

Colonel K0rn said:


> I'm planning on installing irrigation this year, along with getting drainage done. I probably should have done this last year, prior to the renovation, but I didn't have the money available. I went to City Hall to find out how much a second meter would be for irrigation alone. Our water bill last year was pretty high, and I'm sure that was in part to my watering by dragging the hoses around, and not being very efficient with the irrigation. I tried as best as I could, and got good results, I'm just not down with dragging around the hoses for 5 more years at least.
> 
> The fellow who works with the department who handles the installations wasn't in, so I left my phone number. I missed his call, and he left me a message with the costs:
> 
> ...


It is like $3600 in Murfreesboro. In Collierville, it was $200. Why do you need a second meter?


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

My guess is to avoid paying for sewer charges on the irrigation water. That's why I got one!


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

mwemaxxowner said:


> My guess is to avoid paying for sewer charges on the irrigation water. That's why I got one!


Thread necromancer, but that's exactly correct. I have a pool as well, so it would be great to add water, and not have to pay the sewage fee which is 1.5X the per gallon rate.


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

That's exactly my situation. My last water bill had $100 for water charges, and $120 for sewer. Over half of that was water that's been distributed over the grass, and should not have been part of my sewer charges. I also had $200 in charges from a separate irrigation meter. Lol

I have a pool, and am applying quite a bit of water to the yard. The pool house has a septic tank also so all water used there need not be calculated into sewer use. I don't have all of my spigots and irrigation plumbed to the irrigation meter yet. But it's nice to know that eventually I won't be over paying for ANY sewer use.


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## jtuber (Sep 15, 2020)

Reading the amounts mentioned in this thread shocked me. I am from WI and putting in a second meter only costed me $200 for the meter and $9 a month for meter renting fee. You guys talk in thousands.


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## SOLARSUPLEX (Aug 4, 2020)

I emailed my water utility and they replied with an $8000 charge for the meter and installation on a residence. If i was going to live for 250 years i might consider based on the break even time...


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

SOLARSUPLEX said:


> I emailed my water utility and they replied with an $8000 charge for the meter and installation on a residence. If i was going to live for 250 years i might consider based on the break even time...


8k for a meter??? Go gosh


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