# Cool Season Novice with Bermuda



## MikeConroy (Jun 8, 2020)

I have been extremely lucky on this forum and everyone helped me get my cool season front lawn of my new home looking amazing. Now for the backyard which is neglected Bermuda. It very thick and just cutting it a little removes everything green. If I scalp it all the way down, will it die? Looking for a way forward. Pic attached


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

Scalping it will not kill it. Turn it brown for a few days / week? Sure, but that's about all it will do.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Short answer - it is impossible to kill bermuda with a lawnmower. Inf act, after you scalp it and then reset your cut height, you'll probably find it looks even better


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## MikeConroy (Jun 8, 2020)

Will scalping it right now be beneficial? Still hot in 10a. Fall technically not til end of October. Frost never an issue.


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## PhxHeat (Oct 18, 2019)

@MikeConroy, in short I don't think it's a good idea to do a hard scalp this late in the season. I don't think there is enough daylight or warmth left to get it to recover effectively before winter.

What do you normally do with it in the winter? Do you just let it yellow/brown up or do overseed it with a cool season grass like rye?


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

We were asked to make some our fairways wider in certain spots. This was November 2nd. On November 4th we were out with our triplexes scalping 1.75" 419 down to .500" in a single day. I wasn't thrilled to be doing it that late, but it turned out fine. Never had an issue, just some brown areas for 3-4 weeks.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

viva_oldtrafford said:


> We were asked to make some our fairways wider in certain spots. This was November 2nd. On November 4th we were out with our triplexes scalping 1.75" 419 down to .500" in a single day. I wasn't thrilled to be doing it that late, but it turned out fine. Never had an issue, just some brown areas for 3-4 weeks.


I know you've probably mentioned it before, but what part of Florida are you in? I was thinking the OP might be OK to scalp since he was located in San Diego and their weather is so mild.


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## MikeConroy (Jun 8, 2020)

Southern Ca


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

For the past two seasons I have scalped my grass in late February/Early March with no issues at all. Of course, it's slower to recover but it turns out fine like @viva_oldtrafford showed. Same goes with applying herbicides. I've applied when temps were cooler in February and it was just as effective, but very slow to respond.


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## BigBoxLawn (Jul 8, 2020)

As to if it's too late, I cant speak to Cali. But the best advice I was given when new to bermuda was to cut it as low as I could, then raise my setting by 1 notch for mowing normal. It will turn brown when you take off to much. But that original cut needs to be lower than maintenance height. Hope it helps!


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## PhxHeat (Oct 18, 2019)

@MikeConroy you say you are looking for "a way forward". As said above you won't kill bermuda with a mower.

Your pics show some thick dense somewhat longer bermuda. You can scalp it, just be aware you will have a yellow/brown straw like yard for a while. It will take longer to recover now vs when the days are getting longer/warmer. Be aware that you will have a lot more clippings/dead grass there than you might think. So be prepared to have several to many bags to be hauled off.

So whether it's now, spring, whenever you pull the trigger; If it were me I'd take it as low as I possibly could with the mower. Rake and bag. Then I'd use a dethatcher to get even more of the dead undergrowth out and open up the soil a little. Rake and bag. *If you want to really go at it, then you could also core aerate. Rake and bag.* Fertilize with a good starter fertilizer or a balanced n/p/k to help it get going again. Water accordingly. The bermuda will recover, just know it's probably going to feel like an eternity til it does. Then you can set your cut height to what "works" for you and your mower.


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## viva_oldtrafford (Apr 4, 2018)

Redtwin said:


> viva_oldtrafford said:
> 
> 
> > We were asked to make some our fairways wider in certain spots. This was November 2nd. On November 4th we were out with our triplexes scalping 1.75" 419 down to .500" in a single day. I wasn't thrilled to be doing it that late, but it turned out fine. Never had an issue, just some brown areas for 3-4 weeks.
> ...


 Cent FL.
Based on his description of temps and their timing, I'd say that we have very similar climate.

Op, Pull the trigger now, don't wait.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

viva_oldtrafford said:


> Cent FL.
> Based on his description of temps and their timing, I'd say that we have very similar climate.
> 
> Op, Pull the trigger now, don't wait.


I'm in the Panhandle of Florida and I wouldn't be afraid to do a scalp right now. The only reason I wouldn't is because of the slower recovery... but it will recover. We had a particularly mild winter here last year and not only did my Tifway 419 not go dormant, it continued to grow at a slow rate. I would think SoCal winters will be equally if not milder than what I see. The shorter days will slow it more than the cooler temperatures.


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## Obi-Lawn_Kenobi (Aug 13, 2019)

fellow 10A here, I do a lot of my renovations in during the winter when its cooler. Everything just takes a little bit longer to recover.


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## MikeConroy (Jun 8, 2020)

Thanks all for the great responses. If I scalp now, how long do you estimate the recovery? How long will I have to hide the backyard, lol?


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Probably not long. give it about 1lb N per 1ksf after scalping and water it deep. My bet is after you're done it'll look even better than it does right now.


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## 1FASTSS (Jul 11, 2018)

Redtwin said:


> The shorter days will slow it more than the cooler temperatures.


That's what I've noticed in my first year with Celebration. The daylight hours effect it more than the temps do. Lowest we got was 45 a couple times...with mid 70's + daily or higher. Once the time changed again it kicked back into gear.


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## MikeConroy (Jun 8, 2020)

I took everyone's advice and scalped it down real low. I did a test area first (not that I don't trust TLF), which seemed to be returning fine after a few weeks, so I continued with remaining area.

**The scalping revealed some undesirable grasses amongst the Bermuda as show in the pic below in small dark patches . Any recommendations on how to deal with them at this moment? Sorry for bad pics, took them just before sunrise on way to work.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

The good news is that scalping will help the bermuda outcompete those undesireable grasses.


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## MikeConroy (Jun 8, 2020)

Any way to kill these undesirables without damaged the Bermuda in its scalped state?


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

First step is to figure out what it is. Can you post a close up of the undesirable stuff?


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## MikeConroy (Jun 8, 2020)

Bump


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Did you ever figure out what the undesirable weed was? If not, pull some by the roots and post a close-up.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Most of the time a cocktail of celcius and certainty will take care of just about anything. There are not that many weedkillers that will injure scalped bermuda. People spray roundup on their bermuda to control winter weeds.


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## MikeConroy (Jun 8, 2020)

Did the post pic app go away?


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I'm not sure. It doesn't show up on my desktop but does show up on my iPhone. I'm using Google Chrome for both.


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## MikeConroy (Jun 8, 2020)

Here is what is growing in various spots throughout my Bermuda


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

It doesn't look familiar to me which makes me think kikuyu grass.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

MikeConroy said:


> Any way to kill these undesirables without damaged the Bermuda in its scalped state?


Sure, if you had some closer better pictures we could all take a guess. Some could be weeds and a simple celcius, dismiss, etc would take care of them and not bother the bermuda at all.


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## jim7white (Jul 6, 2020)

I don't know what that is, but I'm certain that it's not kikuyu. Unfortunately, I have been battling that stuff for years.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

IMO, that looks like what I used to call garbage fescue when I lived in virginia.


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## Betterthanmyneighbor (Jun 17, 2020)

Did you ever find out what it was or how to kill it ? I have something all too similar


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