# Tired and fed up with clay!



## arj116 (Sep 7, 2019)

Hello,

I have been lurking here for a few weeks now and would like to take a moment to thank every one for their contributions!

I own a corner house with the worst possible yard ever. Bought my place in summer of 2016. I had my basement reno'd to bring it up to city/legal specifications for rent. During that time I had the basement windows enlarged, which meant digging a few feet down for each respective window. During this time as you can imagine alot of heavy clay came up. 80% of it was shipped out via a bin. What i didnt know at that time (being a complete noob in regards to home owner and lawn care) the contractor decided to fling some of this dirt under my bushes large pine tree etc and also on the grass. The same went for my back yard but I some home it recovered.

The worst is my front. Lumpy (to the point I have almost rolled my ankle walking on it) tons of weeds. Sodding is not an option for me given how much I have to do. Plus there is great satisfaction in starting from seed. I have done some patch work, that worked out ok.

I am attaching some pictures of the worse area (front) in one of the pictures you will see a ton of black mulch near a tree/wall. I had to dump that there because of the ugly rock hard and rocky clay. I didnt know what else to do. I had to cover it up.

What can i do for all the lumps/divets? 
What can I do about the soil to make it fertile again
Also I have watched tons of vids online (LCN, Ryan Knorr, Ginja etc) We dont have half the stuff they use. Only thing I do have is a relative brought me a bag of Milo. But it just pushes a green spurt for a bit and thats it.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

cover the yard in compost and then till it to blend it and level the yard? Maybe a combination of compost and additional top soil?

I would add quite a bit around that tree.


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## ForsheeMS (May 21, 2018)

First things first, have you had a soil test done yet? It's relatively inexpensive and without it you are only guessing. The really important numbers are soil pH, phosphorous and potassium. If any of those are way off nothing you do will really make a difference.

The tree in the photo looks to be pretty big. If it is providing too much shade so the grass doesn't get enough sunlight that will be a problem. It will also pull moisture from the ground and during dry spells it will cause that area of grass to suffer long before the rest of the lawn shows signs of drought stress.

As far as compost goes, it's definitely not going to hurt but it will take years of adding it in to change the soil structure. Tilling is not a good idea as it will be nice and smooth once it's tilled and leveled out but the tiller will leave a very uneven surface underneath. As the soft loose dirt settles over the next few years the it will slowly go back to being bumpy. Your best option for leveling would be a tractor with a box blade to move around the soil you already have. Hauling more dirt in will only leave the soil level higher than the concrete walkway which is not a good thing.


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## arj116 (Sep 7, 2019)

Will aeration help as a start to open up some "pores"? Had a landscape guy pass by and offer up some advice. Because my budget it very limited it is difficult for me to rent a skid steer or even hire a guy.

So far the plan of action is
1) Aerate the heck out of it (fall 2019)
2) Order a yard bag or 2 of good quality soil. spread and start filling low spots (fall 2019)
3) Seed and fert. (spring 2020)

Other sections are ok. But will need some weed treatment. Scotts weed be gone doesnt work well. I have even made a spray bottle with a little bit of soapy water to mist the weeds and then hit it with the selective herbicide and nothing happens. I am hand weeding best I can but there are some that just wont go away due to the root being deep and the soil. I think aeration would be a start.

Next year I will be removing my worn out weed infested interlock for pattern concrete.

Side note: My foundation cracked March of 2019 resulting in flooding of my basement. So Guess what I am left with after back fill...yup....you guess it lots of clay again. In the process my irrigation system went with it also (knew it was going to happen with the excavation) so now I no sprinklers. After concrete I am planning on having a new system installed post concrete so it should help with watering my repairs.

Any of this making sense?


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

There's nothing wrong with clay - most of us here in Southern Ontario have majority clay soil. It has a higher CEC than sand and loam.

Your plan to aerate the hell out of it is a good one. Top dress with some compost and sand if you can get it.

You can start on fertilizer and weed control now. Seed in the spring if you really want to, but it's better done in mid-late August.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

It also appears that some of your issue may be shallow tree roots...which is going to be a problem as long as there is a tree.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

I'll add in that the weed control products we get here are no bueno. Need to get the US versions. There are quite a few resources - Seed World USA, lawnproducts.ca are two of them.

There are a lot of different threads for Canadians. I can post the links if you haven't come across them.

Short of starting over with round up, starting now I would scalp your lawn, aerate and top dress and take care of the weeds.

I would then spend this winter researching grass seed and figure out what you want to put down and buy it. If you want to seed in the Spring, I would aim to get your seed down towards the last week of April - this all depends on our weather.

Ideally you would wait until next August but I realize that seems like a long time to live with what you have. If you did wait, you could determine if more leveling is needed in the Spring.

Whereabouts in ON are you?


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## Nismo (Jul 4, 2019)

To chime in with Harts and Sinclair's good advice - humic acid, paired with the already mentioned aeration, is your best friend. It has turned my ontario concrete clay into a nice spongy and absorbent base. The grass is loving it right now.


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## arj116 (Sep 7, 2019)

@Sinclair Thank you! Any advice on who is a good vendor for soil delivery from your experience? Also the tree is a massive pine tree that loves to drop pine cones. I dont want to remove it due to the fact that people walking on my street will start cutting the corner and damaging the grass. As for the shallow tree roots I have to live with that. If I can get the area to fill in that would be fantastic. I understand that it will need to be irrigated more due the tree taking up all the moisture. (Once I get the new system in I can program for a slightly longer run time) I will start by hand weeding as much as possible with the rains coming it will soften the soil a bit so I can get it with the roots.

@Harts 
Thank you for the direction. Correct me if I am wrong, If I order weed control from this site will it ship to Canada? All the good stuff is banned here. A "friend" dropped of 2 bags of scotts weed and feed (yellow color bag ) like a sticky sandy substance. The results were "meh" at best. It might work better when I have less weeds. I did read that it inhibits new grass seed from germinating. I am looking for a tough blend of grass seed or even pure blend. Something that can regenerate quickly and spread. I worry about KBG and the long time it takes to grow. As for where I am sir,.....Brampton.

@Nismo Where can I find humic acid here in the GTA? Also how and when to apply?

Once again I thank all of you guys for your responses.


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## Nismo (Jul 4, 2019)

You're lucky down in the GTA as you have many options we don't have in Ottawa. I think you can even get Humic DG at local agri supply places. I buy my Activ80 GG off of a local farmer.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Perfect. Head to peel Landscape depot in Georgetown. I'm in the Northwest of Mississauga.

The sites I listed ship to Canada. Lawnproducts.ca is Canadian. Seed world USA is in Florida but ships here.

Humic Acid - Gardener's Pantry in BC sells liquid humic. Also check out Extreme Blend from Kelp4less - this is what I am currently using.


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## arj116 (Sep 7, 2019)

Quick update: I am off work wednesday so I finally get to start doing something at least. This Sunday was a write off here in Brampton,ON with the rain we got. But plus side is that it softened the soil a bit and I just pulled a hand full of weeds that came out clean with the root. What a satisfying feeling!


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## gregfromohio (Aug 14, 2019)

Aerate, aerate, and then when you think you have aerated too much......aerate again. I have heavy clay soil too. I had a neighbor laughing at me, and he said, "I should have warned you not to aerate this clay soil we have, the cores won't break down!" Wouldn't you know that the cores DID in fact break down and the soil is getting better. I also recently dropped over 60 lbs of humic acid too.....results to be seen on that one. I'm hoping that the humic helps over the long term.


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## Kaba (Mar 29, 2019)

The key to clay is keeping it cool, and keeping it from drying out. If you have barespots and want to fill them, dig out the clay and introduce new topsoil, it is much more work to try to bring life (literally bring life like microbes etc.) back to the hard clay once it's cooked. Barespots mean direct sun and basically the clay becomes rock.

Aeration only really helps over the long run if you are introducing new loam into the holes. Don't expect to aerate this year, do nothing next year and have a soft lawn still the following summer. If you keep aerating it helps obviously, but sometimes it's like taking advil to cure a broken leg.

I have been topdressing annually my clay with either maneure or Peat. It helps a bit.

Baby shampoo at a couple oz/ksf also helps to loosen surface tension if you're trying to break dead clay.

If you can keep it cool from a thick lawn, and moist from good irrigation clay can be amazing to work with because it can hold the nutrients so well.


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## Methodical (May 3, 2018)

Pete at GCI has the reddish clay soil I've ever seen, but also has the best looking TTTF lawn, too. Our soil wasn't the best and was clay, but I've worked it over the last 20 years to get the dirt right. I renovated in 2017 by killing the crap in the summer, prepped lawn and seeded in mid August (see my suggestion below as this is what I did). It won't be a fast fix. As stated, you need to get a soil test before you start doing anything to see where you stand. You soil may be pretty good. You can begin by top dressing the lawn though with compost, especially after aerating.

If it were my lawn, I'd send out for a soil test and while waiting for the results, I'd scalp the lawn, bag it and start applying glyphosate to kill it all (all of it). Once it's dead, I'd remove all the dead stuff, and wait to see if any weeds come up and then spray glyphosate again to kill them. I'd then get a truck load of compost or two and till into the existing soil. Get a landscape rake and level the yard, plant the seeds and get a lawn roller to roll the lawn and get good seed to soil contact. You don't need any straw either. Water deep initially and then shallow afterwards.

If it's the end of the planting season (which I think it is in Canada or very near it), then I'd put the time into prepping the lawn to your liking and deal with a brown yard until the planting season. In other words, I'd use the fall season to kill, till and level to my liking. Next spring, if there are weeds, spray again, wait the 7 days and begin planting.


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## arj116 (Sep 7, 2019)

UPDATE:

Finally had a day off today from work. Set HOC on my mower as low as possible and scalped the lawn. Did some hand pulling of weeds. Got a lot of them thanks to the damp soil. I have a manual de thatcher and managed to get 20% done. I was shocked to see how much came out. Problem is it is a PITA to do and while dealing with an old back injury I cant do much at a time.

I looked online to see if anyone has an electric de-thatcher I could rent but everyone has gas one. I dont have the means to to transport it back and forth and also they are really heavy.

If any of my local TLF residents have an electric one (Greater Toronto Area) that wouldn't mind me borrowing it for a couple of hours I would be grateful. Plus I would send a little cash your way.

Another issue I have is with landscapers. I have messaged and called several business asking someone to come over and aerate the lawn. The moment I say Brampton,ON I either get a stupid price or if they do say yes to coming down it ends up being a no show. HELP! I really need to get my property aerated, This is the first step of many for my lawn reno.

/rant


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Wish I could help you out. You may want to look into getting a sun joe off Amazon. They sound like great investments.

I wouldn't follow the advice above with regards to scalping and nuking. 1) IF you were to nuke your lawn, you wouldn't want to scalp first. You want your grass and and weeds to be long to absorb the glyphosate. 2) your original plan will work just fine. With regards to watering new seed deeply initially and then shallow afterwards is backwards. When you do seed, keep the soil moist but not soaked. Too much water will drown the seed. As the seed germinates and tillering starts happening, you would switch to deeper and more infrequent irrigation cycles.


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## arj116 (Sep 7, 2019)

@Harts

I have zero intention with nuking the lawn, nor do I have the time and or resources to do so. I have been going to town hand pulling the weeds. This is the best time of year for me to do so due to the damp soil. I scalped the lawn to expose all the low spots. Plus some sections dont have much weeds., Thats why I set the HOC low to cleanup/de-thatch. I did drop some seeds to help thicken.


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## arj116 (Sep 7, 2019)

Hello all!!!
I went back to lurking here while being logged out. 
I didn't want to start another thread

So, update......

2019 was a total flop, had the lawn scalped and ready for aeration, 3x vendor were no shows the other wanted a ridiculous amount of $$. For a corner house with a total lawn sq/footage of 3k or little less thy wanted north of $350 CAD. When asked why? the answer was "peak season".

Also based on reading I should have already started prep for this fall. This time I am going to be equipped with a rare item that cant be found in Canada.....TENACITY! 

Working in the autobiz doesn't leave me with much time on weekends since I work a lot of saturdays. Not to mention I have a 5yo that wants to hang out with me. I am alone in this project so this reno will take time. I will post some before pics to give you an idea of the hell I am working with.

Hope y'all are staying safe and healthy. 
Talk soon
-Jun


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Great to hear from you. Stupid question, and I understand you are busy with work and being a parent....why wouldn't you have rented an aerator from HD for like $75?


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## arj116 (Sep 7, 2019)

Not a stupid question,

I don't have a pickup truck to load unload. There are some uni students in my area doing it for 50 this year. I don't mind paying them lil extra for multiple passes


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