# Yard Mastery Products (XGN, XST, Carbon X and N-EXT)



## jeffjunstrom (Aug 12, 2019)

Last year I used milo during the fall N blitz after a full fall reno, and didn't use any additional products. This year I'm trying to narrow down my plan, and really want to give the Yard Mastery products a try. My initial plan was the Bio-Stimulant pack, plus one of their granular ferts, but I'm not sure which one. I like the idea of keeping the entire plan within one company's product line, but I'm struggling with the differences between their ferts. Other than the obvious ratio differences, do people have a preference? Does one work better in the spring as a green-up fert, while another is better in the fall N blitz? For reference, my plan was ~1.5# in April/May, and ~3# during the fall blitz.


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## NewLawnJon (Aug 3, 2018)

I would say it comes down to what your plans are. If you are one of the people that likes to spoon feed low rates of N then go with XGRN. If you want to throw down every 6-8 weeks then CarbonX.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

NewLawnJon said:


> I would say it comes down to what your plans are. If you are one of the people that likes to spoon feed low rates of N then go with XGRN. If you want to throw down every 6-8 weeks then CarbonX.


What makes you suggest that? Carbon-X has more fast release N than XGRN. Usually spoon-feeding is done with fast release products, so I don't see why XGRN (which is more slow release) would be more amenable to spoon-feeding. Did Matt suggest that? Please explain the reasoning, if you would.

Also, @jeffjunstrom, what are "Yard Mastery" products? Never heard of that brand before.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Green said:


> NewLawnJon said:
> 
> 
> > I would say it comes down to what your plans are. If you are one of the people that likes to spoon feed low rates of N then go with XGRN. If you want to throw down every 6-8 weeks then CarbonX.
> ...


Think it's a company Allyn Hayne started or is at least a part of. Basically just a website that sales lawn care products to DIY customers.


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

It's the LCN's company.


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

You guys are making this too complicated and falling for a lot of marketing hype. We were doing just fine before any of these products. Golf courses still looked amazing before youtubers were pushing products.

You need some fertilizer and some pre/post emergents.

The rest of the stuff IMO is hype like the humic acid and micros. Get a soil test and you will see if you need micros. Even if your micros are off you can have a great looking lawn. Here is the secret:

Fertilizer
Iron
pre/post emergent

that's it. Whatever else you spend money on is a waste IMO. But if it makes you feel better go for it. There are many things you could do for free that would benefit the lawn after the above vs buying bogus products such as...mowing more frequently, buy an extra blade and keep it sharp. Buy a rain gauge and water the lawn as needed.

How can we lower our cost vs buying hype products?

Easy, buy things on sale. For prodiamine and other chemicals do a group buy (check the marketplace section on this site). You only need Urea and whatever synthetic fertilizer is on sale at your local big box store.

My entire fertilizing cost for the whole year is less than $25 for 5000sqft. That includes applying prodiamine and spot spraying weeds, and using some propiconizole (fungicide) as needed.

How can that be possible?

4lbs of nitrogen per 1000sq ft per year

Multiply times 5 since i have 5000sqft. = 20lbs total. Urea sells for 0.50/lb. so that's $10 total. But I use a mix of Urea and synthetics so add $5-$10 dollars. The prodiamine application costs me about $5 for the whole year. We're up to about $25 now. Then add iron applications. Another $15/yr. For less than $50 I'm managing a great lawn of 5000sq ft. The trick is not to fall for the hype products like milorganite. You would be better off buying a bag of ironite. I still like to use Milorganite though in July.


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

Blasphemy!


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

john5246 said:


> You guys are making this too complicated and falling for a lot of marketing hype. We were doing just fine before any of these products. Golf courses still looked amazing before youtubers were pushing products.
> 
> You need some fertilizer and some pre/post emergents.
> 
> ...


Your no fun :lol:

lol jk. I have no argument against really anything you said. I enjoy watching a lot of the YouTubers and have experimented with some of the N-EXT products but you can easily have a great lawn for a lot less money by just giving it Nitrogen, water, mowing right, a little iron, and some weed control.


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## jeffjunstrom (Aug 12, 2019)

Thanks everyone for the insightful info!


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

jeffjunstrom said:


> Last year I used milo during the fall N blitz after a full fall reno, and didn't use any additional products. This year I'm trying to narrow down my plan, and really want to give the Yard Mastery products a try. My initial plan was the Bio-Stimulant pack, plus one of their granular ferts, but I'm not sure which one. I like the idea of keeping the entire plan within one company's product line, but I'm struggling with the differences between their ferts. Other than the obvious ratio differences, do people have a preference? Does one work better in the spring as a green-up fert, while another is better in the fall N blitz? For reference, my plan was ~1.5# in April/May, and ~3# during the fall blitz.


CarbonX is pretty much XGRN on steroids (or at least with extra synthetic nitrogen added). It's the way to go in cooler weather where you need a stable nitrogen source with green-up potential. XGRN is the mild formulation where the chicken manure constitutes 25% of the N source. It gives good initial boost & greenup with season-long slow release organic nitrogen. X-Start is their new product intended for seeding/overseeding season where you want readily-available phoshorous for the seeds without too much nitrogen that stimulate the existing turf to grow & crowds out the seedlings.

Given these options I would come out of the gate (early/mid-April for you?) with cX. Given your 10k lawn I would split the bag in half: 2.25#/1000 now and the remaining half in 2-3 weeks, for a total of 1.08#N/1000. For Round2 (mid-May?) I would go with an entire bag of XGRN 818 (4.5#/1000 = 0.36#N slow release through the summer months).

If you spray fungicides you can spike it with MicroGreene & H12 @ 3oz each every time you spray through the summer, and, about a month before seeding, consider going with a full rate of Air8 & H12 as well.

At seeding time you could go with a half bag of X-Start (save the other half for next year, unless a soil test determines you have P deficiencies then apply accordingly). Approx 4 weeks later (early/mid-Oct) go out with a bag of cX as your winterizer app (that should give you 1.08#N/1000) and optionally, before the ground freezes in Nov/Dec, go out with another 1#N from a quick release N source such as 21-0-0 (or whatever your fall blitz strategy is).

This should give you just under 4#N/1000 for the season utilizing all carbon earth granulars.


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## jeffjunstrom (Aug 12, 2019)

Thanks, @corneliani! Solid analysis, I'll try to work that into my plan.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@corneliani, nice analysis. Only thing I'd note is we don't currently call that app roughly 4 weeks after seeding a winterizer app. For now, the final app you mentioned is still called that.

I don't know if the earlier one has a name, beyond "mid Fall app" at this time. But I think there will be increasing evidence over time for the value of that app as we see a shift away from "final winterizer" apps.

For anyone reading this, usually the mid Fall app is around or within a couple of weeks of the average historical first frost, and not too late. I personally am going to be careful not to apply too large an app at that time, due to concerns about both reduced uptake/leaching in cooler weather as well as potentially interfering with hardening off if too much is used and/or it's applied too late in the year for the area/temps. For example, where I am, you don't want to fertilize much or at all in November while the grass is trying to slow down...unless you're doing micro dose spoonfeeding with liquids.


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

@Green
I guess that's what happens when a southerner gives advice for northern lawns... :lol: ... I knew y'all call a certain fall app a winterizer just wasn't sure which one. I'm following your threads in this regard as I see you're researching the necessity of even doing/calling it a winterizer btw. For me i'm wondering if that word should even be in my vocabulary... we went through the winter with monthly mowings still in the mix!

I appreciate your input/correction btw.


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## sean_h (Jan 31, 2020)

john5246 said:


> Golf courses still looked amazing before youtubers were pushing products.


I think the comparison to golf courses is a little irrelevant because they have a lot more considerations than a homeowner.

The average golf course is about 75 acres, so their scale is completely different. A golf course is also a business that has to run a profit, so there's a break even cost they can't cross in applying products to maintain their turf versus the revenue they can generate by people using their turf.

My home is .25 acres. I'm not a business. I can do things for $100 or so dollars that would cost a golf course thousands. So a lot of the considerations of what I need to do to keep a minimally-healthy lawn versus what I want to do to have the optimum lawn aren't comparable.

Golf courses also have crazy good cultural practices with a full time maintenance staff... constant reel mowing, optimal top dressing and repair, aerification every few months... that helps "compensate" for not being able to put down the same kind of products that homeowners can to accomplish the same kind of outcome.


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

sean_h said:


> john5246 said:
> 
> 
> > Golf courses still looked amazing before youtubers were pushing products.
> ...


True. Most golf courses probably use a ton of products beyond fertilizer, herbicides, and iron. Many of which would make the homeowners product look very cheap. Not to mention they have people who job it is all day everyday to care for the turf.

I think these homeowner products like CarbonX are trying to do is emulate this for someone who spends 99% of their time not working on the lawn.


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## sean_h (Jan 31, 2020)

Matt Martin (@thegrassfactor) was on here in the off season explaining that his company's products, including CarbonX, weren't really intended for the homeowner, and he was actually hesitant to keep it on the DIY market. He started the company for professional applicators that work on sports fields, high end lawns, etc... he said it took a lot of convincing by Allyn (@LawnCareNut) and Pete at GCI Turf to keep it available to us.

Edit: not meaning to be adversarial, just wanted to clarify some misconceptions


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

corneliani said:


> @Green
> I guess that's what happens when a southerner gives advice for northern lawns... :lol: ... I knew y'all call a certain fall app a winterizer just wasn't sure which one. I'm following your threads in this regard as I see you're researching the necessity of even doing/calling it a winterizer btw. For me i'm wondering if that word should even be in my vocabulary... we went through the winter with monthly mowings still in the mix!
> 
> I appreciate your input/correction btw.


Hmm. Maybe you can come up with a catchy new term that effectively describes the final (or last couple) of apps in the Fall/early Winter in a Southern location! Something that invokes the timing, function, etc., in a cool name.

As far as Northern lawn hobbyists giving Southern advice, after talking extensively with @social port for a year and comparing weather and timings, I generally just advise people in the TN area that everything in the late Summer to early is a month later than it is here where I am. And everything in the Spring also seems to be about a month earlier. The Summer is about a month longer. This year, our Winter was a lot like how it's supposed to be in the cooler regions of TN normally. So, I got to get a feel for what people in a more Southern location go through in Winter. Overall, it was pretty easy. The only major issue was the root stunting from moisture that never really dried totally in North/shaded areas. I wonder if you guys face that every Winter. I guess the higher amounts of snow we normally get is more of a slow trickle of moisture as it melts and snows again each time. But that brings its own issues...very matted grass, snow mold, etc. Avoided most that this year.

I think Atlanta is generally warmer than TN in Winter, though.


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## MassHole (Jun 27, 2018)

It's all snake oil peddled by YouTubers.

If you want to add supplements, much cheaper using Kelp4Less.


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

MassHole said:


> It's all snake oil peddled by YouTubers.
> 
> If you want to add supplements, much cheaper using Kelp4Less.


Are you saying that the product ingredients themselves (ie HA, sea kelp, molasses, macros + micros, etc) are snake oil?? Or is it just the cost of certain products? It seems like you're ok with using the same ingredients from K4L, so i'm guessing it's the latter. 
I've never had the affinity for 'kool aid' so I'm not in that camp, for full disclosure, but if you say something like sea kelp is not a beneficial turf/soil supplement then it shouldn't matter where & in what form you get it, right?


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Once again...the whole point of Carbon Earth fertilizer as I understand it was to solve a specific problem: one man was fed up with the availability, cost, and usability in a professional setting of various fertilizers, and wanted to use products with minimal environmental impact. He was also driven, educated, and connected enough that he decided to make his own fertilizer, and got a team together to do it. A huge undertaking. Nothing more. And he has said it better himself than I could second/third-hand.

If we want to be able to keep using the brand or any brand as DIY people, we should conduct our discussions like professionals.

Personally, I won't try a product just because lots of others are using it. But I also won't not try a product for the same reason. What does impact my decision are things like reliability, communication, and quality.


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## Ohio Lawn (Mar 20, 2019)

john5246 said:


> You guys are making this too complicated and falling for a lot of marketing hype. We were doing just fine before any of these products. Golf courses still looked amazing before youtubers were pushing products.
> 
> You need some fertilizer and some pre/post emergents.
> 
> ...


This may be a stupid question, but what form is urea in that sells for 0.50/lb? How is it applied? I've always been confused how to apply urea and AMS for that matter. 
Thanks for the help.


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## mowww (Jan 16, 2018)

@Ohio Lawn you can get granular spreadable urea and ams in 46-0-0 and 21-0-0 analysis respectively from most turf suppliers. Cheap and effective if you're spoon feeding. Urea depends on market price but $0.50/lb is not hard to find by any means. AMS is roughly the same, a little cheaper. Both can be found quite a bit cheaper if you're willing to search.


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

You can also look for urea sold as ice melt. Urea is safer on marble and other decorative surfaces where normal ice melt formulations can cause damage.


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## corneliani (Apr 2, 2019)

Ohio Lawn said:


> This may be a stupid question, but what form is urea in that sells for 0.50/lb? How is it applied? I've always been confused how to apply urea and AMS for that matter.
> Thanks for the help.


The 46-0-0 formulation is Urea nitrogen in it's most concentrated form. The cheapest form available is unaltered, which means that it is not encapsulated in any polymer/sulfur coating nor sprayed with nitrification and/or volatilization inhibitors. It is therefore very susceptible to those factors and a certain amount of loss should be expected. You can choose products with those extra additives but the cost just about doubles. Either way you can spread the product in a spreader, like any other fertilizer (being aware of its concentration) or, if a soluble prill, you can dilute it & spray it (ideally at 1+ gal/M carrier rates). It should get watered in as soon as possible.

Pros/Cons? It's very fast acting and will release within a week +/-, depending on weather, etc .... it's a bit of a pain to spread granular-ly at the rates you'd probably want ... but it is very cheap. It is a great & inexpensive way to get a burst of nitrogen into the plant, by spoon feeding 1/10th - 1/4 #N at a time.

I have played around with this on my bermudagrass last year and will continue this into my TTTF going forward. I have a bit of a sloped backyard and this seems to give me perfect control where/when I need it. It is more work and will require bi-weekly sprays but I'm beginning to enjoy this more and more. The granular app is my 'feed the soil' application.

Here's an example of a product a local supplier, Ewing Irrigation, sells.


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## Getting Fat (Dec 31, 2019)

Can you spread dissolved ams in a hose end sprayer?


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## troksd (Jul 27, 2018)

Long before Youtube made RGS, Humic Acid and other bio-stimulants popular, folks were using them. I first used Sea Kelp and Humic about 10 years ago. These products have been around a log time (mostly to increase ag yields).

Heck, I still have about .25 gallon left, of Agra-Rouse (Cytokinin, as Kinetin, Gibberellic Acid, Indole-3-Butyric Acid), that was bought 6 - 10 years ago.


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