# how low is "reel low"?



## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Just curious, lol. 
I'm cutting at 1.5" right now, with a reel, but pretty sure that isn't particularly low. More like "reel medium"?


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## Diego_Casta (Jul 28, 2019)

the lowest people typically like to go is around 1/2". there are some that go Lower but 1/2" is reel low enough for most


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I'd say 1.5" is reel high but rotary low. Even at 1.5" I bet it cuts WAY better than any rotary.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I consider anything "Reel Low" below 1"


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Reel Low is more of a state of mind than an actual HOC, I think.

I guess you could always ask the folks over at http://reellow.com what they think. :thumbup:


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

Lol @Ware

I consider anything under 1/2 to be reel low, 1/2-1 to be reel mowed and 1+ to be reel easy.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Redtenchu said:


> Lol @Ware
> 
> I consider anything under 1/2 to be reel low, 1/2-1 to be reel mowed and 1+ to be reel easy.


I like that. Except saying I'm "reel easy" conjures up other connotations, lol.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Ware said:


> Reel Low is more of a state of mind than an actual HOC, I think.
> 
> I guess you could always ask the folks over at http://reellow.com what they think. :thumbup:


Ha! Got me!


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

:lol: :lol:


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

I actually clicked on @Ware link...twice 😳🤔🤣


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## TNTurf (Mar 20, 2019)

I feel like I am mowing reel high at half inch. When its not so hot and dry I am in the .350-.400 range. Guess I am reel medium at the moment at half inch. OK with me. Just glad I have the opportunity to be reel anything.


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## Two9tene (May 27, 2018)

I think it is safe to say that anything that gives you a HOC that is ordinary lower than a rotary mower is safe. Therefore anything <1" HOC, provided that it has been accomplished via a "reel", is in fact "reel low".


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

Two9tene said:


> I think it is safe to say that anything that gives you a HOC that is ordinary lower than a rotary mower is safe. Therefore anything <1" HOC, provided that it has been accomplished via a "reel", is in fact "reel low".


I like that answer.


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## LAG Gamecock (Apr 23, 2019)

TNTurf said:


> I feel like I am mowing reel high at half inch. When its not so hot and dry I am in the .350-.400 range. Guess I am reel medium at the moment at half inch. OK with me. Just glad I have the opportunity to be reel anything.


I hope your not measuring your cut to .001". Some people might think that's weird.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

LAG Gamecock said:


> TNTurf said:
> 
> 
> > I feel like I am mowing reel high at half inch. When its not so hot and dry I am in the .350-.400 range. Guess I am reel medium at the moment at half inch. OK with me. Just glad I have the opportunity to be reel anything.
> ...


My Accu-Gage measures HOC to 0.001" precision. :?


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## TNTurf (Mar 20, 2019)

LAG Gamecock said:


> TNTurf said:
> 
> 
> > I feel like I am mowing reel high at half inch. When its not so hot and dry I am in the .350-.400 range. Guess I am reel medium at the moment at half inch. OK with me. Just glad I have the opportunity to be reel anything.
> ...


As Ware said, the Accu Gage does go to to .001 and I use one for setting my height. I just adjusted Friday to correct a .005 difference. Ha. I'm laughing when I type this but its true. I was showing my brother how the gage works so I corrected the cut.


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## Sbcgenii (May 13, 2018)

.005 is miles out in some "fields".


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## Wfrobinette (Feb 3, 2019)

Ware said:


> LAG Gamecock said:
> 
> 
> > TNTurf said:
> ...


I think my wife would divorce me if i tried by one of those.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Wfrobinette said:


> I think my wife would divorce me if i tried by one of those.


Says the guy with a Swardman Electra...


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## enforcerman (Jul 8, 2019)

I have my Greensmaster set at .75. I guess im reel medium. Gonna try and get to .5 next year but for now I'm happy.


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## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

kt, can I ask why you aren't cutting lower than 1.5"? Wouldn't it spread much faster at 1.0"? With all the rain you get I'd think it would handle it well.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Chocolate Lab said:


> kt, can I ask why you aren't cutting lower than 1.5"? Wouldn't it spread much faster at 1.0"? With all the rain you get I'd think it would handle it well.


I have a lot of exposed tree roots, and an uneven lawn, worse now with the stupid mole digging tunnels everywhere. 
Also, lately the rain hits us for a few minutes and then leaves, so like in the last 24 hours we got 0.02 inches of rain...just enough to wet the grass and then 90% humidity so it doesn't dry, leading to fungus. So right now it's stressed by leaf spot and I don't want to stress it more by going lower and scalping it.

I also worry that if I cut that much off at once it would stress it in general, and not have as much blade for photosynthesis and spread slower?


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## Batsonbe (May 9, 2019)

I try my best to keep mine cut at 7/8". Mowing every other day my lawn isn't level.


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## The_iHenry (Apr 23, 2019)

I was mowing at .25 and decided to go up to .375...

I feel dirty now.


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## Wfrobinette (Feb 3, 2019)

Ware said:


> Wfrobinette said:
> 
> 
> > I think my wife would divorce me if i tried by one of those.
> ...


 Touché


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

ktgrok said:


> Chocolate Lab said:
> 
> 
> > kt, can I ask why you aren't cutting lower than 1.5"? Wouldn't it spread much faster at 1.0"? With all the rain you get I'd think it would handle it well.
> ...


Diseases can be worse in high cut grass because of the increased moisture retained in the grass. 0.75-1.5 is the height where Bermuda is thick and smothering itself. Especially if it is getting a lot of water


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> ktgrok said:
> 
> 
> > Chocolate Lab said:
> ...


Would you recommend lower than that for seeded varieties as well? Or just hybrid? 
Also, I'm not at all averse to going lower but figured scalping it while it was dealing with fungus was a bad idea. I figured if I wanted to go lower to wait, but maybe I should just do it?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Scalping is part of how I treat for diseases. Take off the infected leaf tissue and enhance drying.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> Scalping is part of how I treat for diseases. Take off the infected leaf tissue and enhance drying.


Man....feels almost like blood letting back in the old days, but it does make sense - to remove that fungus itself for the most part. Although even the stolons are effected in some places (not many....I found out that the invading wild bermuda is even more susceptible to this stuff than my seeded bermuda - the only benefit, lol).

So, to be clear (because I'm a big scaredy cat) you are saying that with a bermuda lawn with leaf spot, you'd go ahead and scalp it down? And if I'm somewhere between 1.5 and 1.75 now, with a seeded bermuda, how low would you go to scalp, and then how high to maintain? I have some exposed tree roots, and currently a bunch of god forsaken mole tunnels, so not super level but not terrible. Wasn't bad before the bleeping mole.

Also, would love your take as far as fertilizer, fungicide, etc at this point, both now while dealing with fungus and for the rest of this humid summer, especially if I do scalp - nitrogen to grow it back or no?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Dirt. By any means necessary. Even if it means a string trimmer. I would then maintain as low as possible. No more N by itself. I am looking for NPK as the fertilizer application.


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## Two9tene (May 27, 2018)

ktgrok said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> > Scalping is part of how I treat for diseases. Take off the infected leaf tissue and enhance drying.
> ...


Treating the "fungi" should be priority #1. It's will become a systemic problem if you "mow" reel or rotary, by spreading the spores around on the turf.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Leaf spot disease calls for Azoxystrobin or similar fungicides. But not as a granule.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> Leaf spot disease calls for Azoxystrobin or similar fungicides. But not as a granule.


That's what I'm thinking. I need to figure out if it is cheaper to bite the bullet and order the liquid azoxystrobin or hire someone to come spray it.

Would you spray, wait, scalp, or scalp and spray at the same time, or?


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Two9tene said:


> ktgrok said:
> 
> 
> > Greendoc said:
> ...


Trust me I'm trying to treat it. Done Azoxystrobin and thiophanate methyl granular (all I could find) and propiconazole liquid. That was the only liquid I could find and my turf HATES it - really stunts it. And it's not great for leaf spot anyways so now I need to shell out the cash for the Azoxystrobin liquid or pay someone else to do it.

I am bagging the clippings, this definitely spread when I wasn't - the initial infection actually perfectly tracked my mower lines.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> Dirt. By any means necessary. Even if it means a string trimmer. I would then maintain as low as possible. No more N by itself. I am looking for NPK as the fertilizer application.


Yeah, this actually sprung up right after I did an N application on it's own actually. Before the I was doing N and K together. Have not been doing P because soil sample says that's high, which is typical here, and technically county regulations are not to use P. But I'm a bit of a rebel, so if you think going with all three is best I'm willing to risk it :lol:

Was actually thinking of getting the Miracle Grow All Purpose, as I remember you mentioning it and the time I used some just in a watering can on a struggling area there was a big improvement.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

@ktgrok Another option that Bermuda tolerates well and is effective against a wide range of diseases is Armada. Comes in a bottle full of granules. Product itself keeps for years. Costs about what a bottle of Azoxystrobin would go for if not a bit less. Trifloxystrobin(Compass)+Triadimefon(Bayleton).


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> @ktgrok Another option that Bermuda tolerates well and is effective against a wide range of diseases is Armada. Comes in a bottle full of granules. Product itself keeps for years. Costs about what a bottle of Azoxystrobin would go for if not a bit less. Trifloxystrobin(Compass)+Triadimefon(Bayleton).


So, shopping around I can get a bottle of Azoxystrobin shipped here for a price I can manage, but will probably take a week to get here. Would you wait to scalp it until after getting that and applying it? (I'm going to call around tomorrow to check local places, but not looking good)


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I would scalp now


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> I would scalp now


Oh man. 
I have a feeling to do this I'm going to need to recite "it's bermuda, it will grow back" over and over. Pretty sure that's my new mantra. Also, pretty sure the neighbors will be convinced I've totally lost my mind.

Also I know normally people go heavy on the fert and water after a scalp to grow back in - any recommendations there, given the fungus.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Do not go heavy on the water and fert.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Got it. Water as needed, deeply, and it had some granular 8-1-8 put down not long ago, so probably doesn't need anything anyway.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I never understood the mad rush to grow the grass back after a scalp.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> I never understood the mad rush to grow the grass back after a scalp.


Probably because people are afraid it won't grow back, so the sooner they see growth the sooner they can breathe a sigh of relief


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

As long as I see green in 14 days I do not care. Do I expect it to be a full lawn again in that time? No.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Okay, @Greendoc .... I'm trusting you. Everyone says you are the one with experience, especially in hot humid climates. You have your hands on the grown, in the dirt. So I just want to be sure I understand before I bite the bullet and do this. The universities say "raise mowing height" when fungus hits to limit stress , but if you are saying that the better way is cut it off, get that diseased material the heck out of there, get the air flowing, and let it grow back - right?

And you promise it WILL grow back, lol? I really DO want to lower the height anyway, and given that it's end of August and I'm in Florida I should have time to grow it back in this season, right? Anything else I should do, other than spray the Azoxy when I get it? Topdress with anything or anything else crazy, or just watch and wait?


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

So, it was almost at 2 inches and I just took it down to a bit under 1 inch. It's uneven ground so some areas are a full inch, some are 3/4 inch. Rain is about to start up so had to stop, plus honestly I'm beat, lol.

I double cut, first east west and then north/south, plus a few tricky spots got more than that. Had to empty the clippings about a zillion times it seemed. And pushing a manual reel when cutting a full inch or more off is WAY harder than when cutting just a little off! I'm exhausted and was dripping in sweat when I finished. I would have gone lower but couldn't figure out how to adjust it lower than that, although theoretically it goes down to 1/2 inch. Need food and to cool off to even figure that out.

I will say even scalped and brown it looks WAY better at this height - everyone as right and I was wrong. I'll admit it :lol: 
Also, i can see that even though I'm not as low as I planned, it will dry out much faster now and have better airflow. Also, it uncovered some weeds I couldn't see before, so I can pull them.

Finally, my 9 yr old must be a lawn care nut in training, because I heard her complaining about how "incredibly long" the just under 2" grass was, lol.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

@ktgrok promise it will not only grow back but be better than it was before. Mowing higher to reduce stress is your standard canned answer written for cool season grass. Not applicable to Bermuda or Zoysia unless you are keeping those grasses at less than 1/4".
No need to topdress with anything. Just apply your fungicides when you get them. I saw your other post concerning rain. I ignore drizzles and brief rains that do not add up to an inch of water per week. Worst condition I can think of is for grass to be drizzled on, then the lawn keeper proceed to deprive it of water. That would be the worst conditions for creating disease.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> @ktgrok promise it will not only grow back but be better than it was before. Mowing higher to reduce stress is your standard canned answer written for cool season grass. Not applicable to Bermuda or Zoysia unless you are keeping those grasses at less than 1/4".
> No need to topdress with anything. Just apply your fungicides when you get them. I saw your other post concerning rain. I ignore drizzles and brief rains that do not add up to an inch of water per week. Worst condition I can think of is for grass to be drizzled on, then the lawn keeper proceed to deprive it of water. That would be the worst conditions for creating disease.


yup, and that is what I was doing. Everyone kept saying "don't irrigate, it's our rainy season" but for whatever reason my little area is not getting that much rain it turns out.

So I got it down to an inch, cut off half. Will lower again but need to figure out how to do it on the mower I have - it involves taking off the wheels and putting them back on and it was about to storm so I did what I could for now. Already can tell it will dry much faster and get better airflow!


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

It is done. Or as done as it is getting, anyway. 
Figured out how to adjust the big wheels to lower it further. Tried putting both settings at the very lowest and went after the parking strip. Quickly realized that would not be happening on the full yard. The parking strip is the MOST level, and I was still hitting dirt and getting bogged down. If I'd done that on the rest of the yard it would have been regrading, not scalping, lol. So raised the regular height adjustment up one for the rest of the yard. Did a double cut everywhere, and it is now at 0.5" in the majority and some of the low areas are more like 0.75" or so. 
I gotta say, forget cross fit. You want a workout, scalp a lawn with a manual reel in august in Florida. Part of the time it was wet too, as I got rained on a bit in a freak sun shower, which really bogged it down. If I ever have to do this again (when is probably more accurate) I will be buying, renting or borrowing a gas powered reel mower. 
Can you even do that - rent reel mowers? 
anyway, looks like crap, lol, but it dried SO fast after the rain shower I couldn't believe it. Definitely going to help with the fungus. I can see also why taller would be better in a dry environment, or without irrigation, but in our humidity and with cheap, accessible water, I see why shorter is better.


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## SwBermuda (Jun 9, 2019)

semi hi-jacking this thread for an idiotic question. Just got my mclane back from the shop and want to get in a a legit scalp before the season is over. So after I scalp, I'm assuming I need to put on a granular fert and not a foliar correct?


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

SwBermuda said:


> semi hi-jacking this thread for an idiotic question. Just got my mclane back from the shop and want to get in a a legit scalp before the season is over. So after I scalp, I'm assuming I need to put on a granular fert and not a foliar correct?


Not an idiotic question as far as I'm concerned, I had the same thought. I suppose you could use liquid and just realize it needs to be watered in?


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## SwBermuda (Jun 9, 2019)

ktgrok said:


> SwBermuda said:
> 
> 
> > semi hi-jacking this thread for an idiotic question. Just got my mclane back from the shop and want to get in a a legit scalp before the season is over. So after I scalp, I'm assuming I need to put on a granular fert and not a foliar correct?
> ...


My thought being if I'm scalping to the dirt is it ok for the foliar to get into the dirt? Will the turf still get the nitrogen? I'm probably way overthinking this.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

SwBermuda said:


> ktgrok said:
> 
> 
> > SwBermuda said:
> ...


It's the same stuff, right? Like, you can spray ammonium sulfate or urea and have the plant absorb it via the leaves/blades, or you can spread it, or spray it and water it in. Same stuff, just different absorption method. Might also effect rates...usually foliar applications are much lower.


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## Sublime (Jun 15, 2019)

It will still be available to be taken in by the roots. The reason foliar apps are usually lower is to prevent the leaf from burning. If you water it in, you can go a little heavier, probably around 0.4lb N/M.


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## SwBermuda (Jun 9, 2019)

Sublime said:


> It will still be available to be taken in by the roots. The reason foliar apps are usually lower is to prevent the leaf from burning. If you water it in, you can go a little heavier, probably around 0.4lb N/M.


Fantastic. Thanks all!


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## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> @ktgrok promise it will not only grow back but be better than it was before. Mowing higher to reduce stress is your standard canned answer written for cool season grass. Not applicable to Bermuda or Zoysia unless you are keeping those grasses at less than 1/4".


How long after the scalp or "reset" does it take to turn green again? I'm not in some huge hurry... just curious more than anything.

I guess I need to do this also now that it's not 105 every day and we're actually getting a little rain.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

@Greendoc , would you advise I put any fert down now? Last applications were XGRN 8-1-8 granular at 0.5lbs N per thousand two weeks ago, 0.1lb N via foliar spray of ammonium sulfate on 8/18, and 0.6lbs K per thousand as MOP on 8/22. I have on hand more of the Xgrn, soluble AS, soluble MOP, and some Gordon's Lawn and Pasture 21-0-0 liquid. Also a bit of 10-10-10 left from seeding, but soil tests show high phosphorous so wasn't planning to use it, was going to save it for raised vegetable beds in the fall.

Or should I just hold off given the leaf spot.

Oh, and thank you for being blunt and "making" me do this. The grass dried SO fast today!!! Was ridiculous. I can totally see now how the thick tall grass was 1. keeping water from getting to the soil at all and 2. staying wet forever and a day. Now when I irrigate I'm actually watering the soil/roots, not just the blades!


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## nt5000 (Jun 13, 2018)

ktgrok said:


> It is done. Or as done as it is getting, anyway.
> Figured out how to adjust the big wheels to lower it further. Tried putting both settings at the very lowest and went after the parking strip. Quickly realized that would not be happening on the full yard. The parking strip is the MOST level, and I was still hitting dirt and getting bogged down. If I'd done that on the rest of the yard it would have been regrading, not scalping, lol.


Nice job following @Greendoc 's advice! 
P.S. It will grow back even if your bedknife scoops up dirt! Don't be scared, take it down to the dirt. 
I am still pretty proud of my manual scalp this spring. 
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9933&p=163499#p163251

You can even add weight to go even lower like this


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Ok you are an animal, lol. No way was I doing anything to make it harder. It was hard enough! And I would have taken off whole sections...there is easily an inch difference in some areas and I was not up to scraping off an inch of dirt 

but you can see dirt now, so going to call that good, lol. Besides, now I have to prep for the freaking hurricane.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Lawn is greening up nicely! I raised the mowing height one notch for maintenance but still scalping in areas with that (lawn isn't level - exposed tree roots, valleys, etc). Going to have to go up one more notch but still, going to look so much better now, and it is totally filling in! Almost no bare spots at all now.


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## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

Ha, NT, that is great. I used one of those Scotts one year and the biggest negative was it being so light that it bounced around.

I can't tell, what did you clamp to the mower to add weight?

And nice on getting the grass to spread, ktgrok. Need more pics sometime soon.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Here is what it is looking like today. You can see where it is still scalping, and the brown leftover from the fungal damage and the drought stress. But the new blades/growth are nice and green. Definitely needs a mow but we are getting a lot of rain the last 48 hours due to Dorian, and that will just continue. Hoping to get a mow in later today or tomorrow between the bands.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Comparison of bare spots - this is what it looked like on August 10th vs Today. It's more brown today, between the fungus issues and then the scalp I gave it, but you can see how much it has filled in. Now I have weak spots, but hardly any bare spots.

8/10


9/2


8/10


9/2


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

I did apply 0.25lbs N and K using XGRN 8-1-8 on the 30th, now I'm wondering when, and if, to go back to my AS/MOP foliar sprays, FEature applications, PGR, etc. And when I can spray for weeds again - seeing a ton of virginia buttonweed and globe sedge and some crabgrass and some dove weed. I'm pulling what I can but it needs a hit of Celsius and Dismiss I think, just not sure when to do it as it seems the Sulfentrazone may slow growth?


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## Two9tene (May 27, 2018)

I think the conversation on this thread has veered away from the topic at hand. Lol


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

From across the street it looks pretty good - need to look at it from far away more often!


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## Scalper007 (Oct 1, 2018)

My backyard is starting to green up after scalping it over the summer. 13/16" HOC.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Not a warm season grass but I love it. Looks outstanding @Scalper007


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## Scalper007 (Oct 1, 2018)

Thanks @Greendoc


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

That's gorgeous! I have total KBG envy. Doubt I'll ever move far enough north to have it, but it looks great!


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## Two9tene (May 27, 2018)

Scalper007 said:


> My backyard is starting to green up after scalping it over the summer. 13/16" HOC.


Are you on a military installation?


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