# Getting Bermuda To Run



## Iopsurfer (Jul 30, 2019)

I am trying to get my Bermuda to run. I have seeded in Mid July in the areas that are without grass, with fertilizer to encourage growth. Should I add some play ground sand at 1/4 to 1/2" depth. I water via sprinklers for three thirty minute periods a day. 41.3 KB IMG_0693.jpg Check Error


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Iopsurfer said:


> I am trying to get my Bermuda to run. I have seeded in Mid July in the areas that are without grass, with fertilizer to encourage growth. Should I add some play ground sand at 1/4 to 1/2" depth. I water via sprinklers for three thirty minute periods a day. 41.3 KB IMG_0693.jpg Check Error


How is your germination? Are you trying to get runners from the established grass? Fertilizer and mowing low usually will encourage runners. Roughing up the soil can help too but you don't want to damage your seedlings. You could also take plugs from your turf and put them in bare areas where the seed isn't coming up.


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## Iopsurfer (Jul 30, 2019)

I am hoping the seed I just put out will come up. And I am hoping the existing Bermuda will run as well. I mow at 2.75" usually twice a week.

I was thinking to get some bags of play sand to encourage runners.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

I had the best lawn in the winter with rye. Now, I am embarrassed.


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## erdons (Apr 3, 2018)

Mowing shorter will make it spread..


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## BermudaBoy (Jun 27, 2019)

I had a similar situation earlier this year with my bare spots. I used to feel embarrassed every time someone would walk past my lawn.

When I planted my seeds, I hit my lawn with a double app of Milorganite to use as a starter fertilizer and followed up with an app of Carbon X to put down some quick release nitrogen. I was trying to get my seeds go grow but what ended up happening was that all the fertilizer caused my existing grass to spread like crazy and overtake my seedlings. It didn't produce a lot of runners but it spread via rhizomes.

Every month since then I put another app of Milo and a light app of CX to keep it going. Your yard is a quite bit bigger than mine but I've found that pushing the existing grass works better than seeding, if you have a decent amount of existing grass. My Tifway completely overrun my Princess and now only a few blades of it are left and will soon be overrun.

You can also try reducing your cutting height. Mowing low helps to increase lateral growth.


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## TalonII (Jul 23, 2019)

Looks like I've had it backwards from releasing this thread. Ive been trying to get my established p77 to spread so I've been cutting high once a week.

I guess I need to change up my plan!


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

According to this study found by @BenC in this thread, flazasulfuron (Katana) resulted in noticeable stolon elongation with zero turf injury. Applications of chlormequat chloride (Cycocel (Not labeled for residential turf)) increased the # of stolons per test pot, with minimal turf injury. There was also a reduction in turf height compared to the control with both products (though not as significant as Tnex).

If I had the money, I'd run a test with both products combined with 1lb nitrogen per week, but alas I do not have $350 for an experiment. If the peeps at DoMyOwn want to fund this experiment, I'm your huckleberry.


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## BermudaBoy (Jun 27, 2019)

TalonII said:


> Looks like I've had it backwards from releasing this thread. Ive been trying to get my established p77 to spread so I've been cutting high once a week.
> 
> I guess I need to change up my plan!


Mow low and mow often. I keep mine at two inches because going any lower would scalp half of my lawn due to how uneven it is but I'd love to go down to 1 inch. I now mow twice a week unless it's insanely hot like it has been in NC recently and put down 1.5lbs of nitrogen per 1000 square feet every month.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I remember reading something somewhere about very light doses of Glyphosate having a stolon-stimulating effect on hybrid bermuda but for the life of me I can't find it anywhere. Maybe I was dreaming but can one of the experts/greenkeepers chime in if this sounds familiar?

Disclaimer: Don't go trying this at home until it is confirmed with a study. :?


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

Redtwin said:


> I remember reading something somewhere about very light doses of Glyphosate having a stolon-stimulating effect on hybrid bermuda but for the life of me I can't find it anywhere. Maybe I was dreaming but can one of the experts/greenkeepers chime in if this sounds familiar?
> 
> Disclaimer: Don't go trying this at home until it is confirmed with a study. :?


In the study I linked a few posts above, they found that glyphosate did increase stolon length but also resulted in mild turf injury. If you can stomach up to 13% turf injury, you can get 2.25x the stolon length with glyphosate at a rate of 0.2kg/ha.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Doh! I missed that. I see it now at Table 7 and 8 of that study. Thanks, I'm glad to know I wasn't crazy. Rate 2 seems to be the optimum. Any idea on how to convert that to ounces/K?


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## TalonII (Jul 23, 2019)

BermudaBoy said:


> TalonII said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like I've had it backwards from releasing this thread. Ive been trying to get my established p77 to spread so I've been cutting high once a week.
> ...


Yeah, I'll have to do a gradual leveling starting in the spring. I have a couple of low spots and one area where runoff has cut a small trench by the back patio.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Huh...explains why the common bermuda I kept trying to kill with roundup came back lower/thicker/denser/greener...over and over again. At this point, I figure, whatever. At least it looks better.


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## Sublime (Jun 15, 2019)

Redtwin said:


> Doh! I missed that. I see it now at Table 7 and 8 of that study. Thanks, I'm glad to know I wasn't crazy. Rate 2 seems to be the optimum. Any idea on how to convert that to ounces/K?


If I'm doing my math right, it would be 1.84 grams per M at the 0.2kg/ha rate. I'd be afraid with that small of a measurement that if my scale weren't PERFECTLY calibrated that it could end up doing more damage than reported in that study. I wouldn't give it a try.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Yeah, my math show a SUPER low rate as well.

Base Rate was .8922 lbs/acre
Convert to Ksf would be .8922 /43.56 =.02048 lbs/Ksf
Convert to ounces would be .02048 / 16 = .00128 oz/Ksf

They applied at .1 of the base rate so that would be .000128 oz/Ksf

That can't be correct. Where am I going wrong?

Edit: I agree with @Sublime; I'll be sticking to my T-Nex, water, and nitrogen.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Oh... maybe they were using a 100% solution of Glyphosate. That means if we used a 41% solution we would divide by the percentage. Therefore, the .000128/.41 =.000312 oz/Ksf. It's still ridiculously low. Maybe there is an issue between dry ounces and fluid ounces.


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## gpbrown60 (Apr 7, 2018)

Iopsurfer said:


> I am trying to get my Bermuda to run. I have seeded in Mid July in the areas that are without grass, with fertilizer to encourage growth. Should I add some play ground sand at 1/4 to 1/2" depth. I water via sprinklers for three thirty minute periods a day. 41.3 KB IMG_0693.jpg Check Error


Get some Black Cow Organic Compost Manure from a big box store like Home Depot and spread it over the area. You can also mix it with sand. It is around $5 or $6 for a 50 lb. bag. Continue to water and I think it will grow in faster as long as you don't have a deluge and wash it away. :thumbup:


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## Ben S (Oct 6, 2018)

It's not normally advisable to fill bare spots in Bermuda with seed. You may end up with noticeably different colors or textures. The existing grass will spread with generous applications of nitrogen and frequent mowing. I think I read someone on this forum say you could go as heavy as 1 lb. N/k/week.


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## BermudaBoy (Jun 27, 2019)

Ben S said:


> It's not normally advisable to fill bare spots in Bermuda with seed. You may end up with noticeably different colors or textures. The existing grass will spread with generous applications of nitrogen and frequent mowing. I think I read someone on this forum say you could go as heavy as 1 lb. N/k/week.


That's what I ended up doing. I actually reached out to Pete from CGI Turf on filling in my bare spots. He told me to chop up my bare spots, mix in some black cow and drop a healthy amount of Carbon X on the soil and keep the lawn irrigated for the next month. So far it has worked out quite well. Just be careful to keep the fertilizer on the bare spots because I have a nice area of scorched earth in my backyard from some sloppy fertilizing. Here's the video where he explains the process.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

adgattoni said:


> According to this study found by @BenC in this thread, flazasulfuron (Katana) resulted in noticeable stolon elongation with zero turf injury. Applications of chlormequat chloride (Cycocel (Not labeled for residential turf)) increased the # of stolons per test pot, with minimal turf injury. There was also a reduction in turf height compared to the control with both products (though not as significant as Tnex).
> 
> If I had the money, I'd run a test with both products combined with 1lb nitrogen per week, but alas I do not have $350 for an experiment. If the peeps at DoMyOwn want to fund this experiment, I'm your huckleberry.


I'm about to run a test on fill in with high rates of nitrogen, T-Nex, and water for the next 4-6 weeks. The energy has to go somewhere if it can't go vertical.


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

cglarsen said:


> adgattoni said:
> 
> 
> > According to this study found by @BenC in this thread, flazasulfuron (Katana) resulted in noticeable stolon elongation with zero turf injury. Applications of chlormequat chloride (Cycocel (Not labeled for residential turf)) increased the # of stolons per test pot, with minimal turf injury. There was also a reduction in turf height compared to the control with both products (though not as significant as Tnex).
> ...


They tested T-nex in that study as well - it actually shortened stolon length as rates increased.


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## adgattoni (Oct 3, 2017)

Redtwin said:


> Oh... maybe they were using a 100% solution of Glyphosate. That means if we used a 41% solution we would divide by the percentage. Therefore, the .000128/.41 =.000312 oz/Ksf. It's still ridiculously low. Maybe there is an issue between dry ounces and fluid ounces.


Their rates are listed as kg/ha ai. Their R3 glyphosate rate is 0.2 kg/ha ai. They convert 1 kg/ha ai to 0.8922 lb/a in the footnotes, meaning the R3 rate is 0.17844 lb/a (0.2 * 0.8922). Converted to oz/M = 0.0655 oz OF ACTIVE INGREDIENT per M ((0.17844/43.56)*16). If you are using a 41% solution, that means 0.1598 oz/M of product (0.0655/0.41).


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## jakemauldin (Mar 26, 2019)

I know a lot of guys suggest putting out manure compost but I know cows eat many grasses and the seeds from those grasses have to come out at some point. Thus you risk getting unwanted weed/seed germination from manure compost. just my opinion.


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## cglarsen (Dec 28, 2018)

adgattoni said:


> cglarsen said:
> 
> 
> > adgattoni said:
> ...


True, but at R1 and R2 rates which fall within label rates depending on the bermuda turf variety, the mean stolon length reduction was neglible - only 4.5% at R2. I wish they would have found a way to measure below ground biomass, I suspect it would increase as above ground biomass decreases.


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## Avalawn T (Sep 11, 2018)

I would definitely put as many plugs out there as you can too. I did and they are filling in like mad with a lb per k a week of n. My backyard has much bigger spots than yours and are getting covered. Mowing low every other day.


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## TalonII (Jul 23, 2019)

Avalawn T said:


> I would definitely put as many plugs out there as you can too. I did and they are filling in like mad with a lb per k a week of n. My backyard has much bigger spots than yours and are getting covered. Mowing low every other day.


Where do y'all find the time to do all this mowing? There's no way I could do that and I only have a half acre.


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## sportsman10 (Feb 25, 2019)

TalonII said:


> Where do y'all find the time to do all this mowing? There's no way I could do that and I only have a half acre.


Avalawn T has a 7k lawn. With a push mower that's only like 1 hour every two days. Mowing a 15k lawn with a 21" walk behind mower is going to take at least twice as long and that's probably too much time for an every other day schedule. I wouldn't mow any more than a 1/4 acre with small walk-behind mower unless I was only mowing weekly.


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## TalonII (Jul 23, 2019)

@sportsman10 Yeah...it takes a hot minute. :lol:


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## Avalawn T (Sep 11, 2018)

Yeah I work at home too and it's my cardio when the kids nap.  I've been using a fiskars reel mower I got off craigslist and go at it in two different directions. Only takes 30 minutes.


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## ctrav (Aug 18, 2018)

sportsman10 said:


> TalonII said:
> 
> 
> > Where do y'all find the time to do all this mowing? There's no way I could do that and I only have a half acre.
> ...


Takes me 2 hours to push my 21" on 22k backyard. Thats just cutting! I do it twice a week which can be brutal with the Texas heat...


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

ctrav said:


> sportsman10 said:
> 
> 
> > TalonII said:
> ...


If I had 22K I'd get horses or mini donkeys or something to graze and cut it, lol.


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## TalonII (Jul 23, 2019)

ctrav said:


> sportsman10 said:
> 
> 
> > TalonII said:
> ...


Yeah, its about an hour and a half for my 15k with same size mower. It would be quicker but the backyard takes longer because of bushes and a swing set. Also I'm a bit uneven in the front...really need to fill in some places.

Edit: I'm pretty pumped because this whole time I thought I was cutting real high but actually measured today and it's only 1.5 in. I had the backwards thought that high infrequent cuts would encourage lateral growth. I'll keep it at the same height but cut twice a week just in the backyard where I want to focus on first. I'm not reducing height bc the next step is 1 inch which I think may be too low for my uneven yard.


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