# Hit by red light runner Friday who had no insurance - Liberty Mutual being horrible to deal with



## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

I was hit Friday by a driver who ran a red light at 65mph (We had just got the green light so I was only going a few mph)

My new car is 8 months old and only has 8K miles on it. It was perfect/new condition.

Police and fire came and told me:

1) She had a suspended license;
2) She has no insurance;
3) She has caused serious accidents before and will be arrested
4) AND FD SAYS SHE TESTE POSITIVE FOR CORONAVIRUS (I have pics of the car that hit me with "biohazard" written on it)

I call Liberty Mutual from the scene to report the accident.

I get a call later from LM investigator and the first question they ask is have I spoken to a lawyer. I said no. That was my first mistake.

My car gets taken to dealership. Dealership says looks like frame is bent.

Car gets taken to body shop. LM decides to try and fix it piecemeal only a little at a time since they are only going to go by outside pics first, AND WON'T APPROVE OEM PARTS FOR MY NEW CAR!!! Body shop says aftermarket parts will not fit correctly. LM does not care.

I call LM customer service and speak with a young rep named Taylor. She tells me I have no right to be upset and refuses to transfer me to someone to help me.

I call back and after hours of taking to people get to a claims supervisor. I explain to him I have the highest insurance coverage on everything with the most coverage they allowed me to buy when I got the car, and that I should get OEM parts on a new car. He says no. Tells me all the parts are the same but then goes on to tell me on his car he has a special policy that dictates OEM parts only. ?!?!?!?!

I have the highest/most coverage available from LM and they won't take care of me. I get screwed by the lady driving illegally and now after being a loyal customer with LM for years with the highest coverage possible they are trying to screw with the repair of my car.

I will be pulling all our policies from them as soon as this is done.

Guys - be warned about Liberty Mutual.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

That is unfortunate. I have Libery Mutual currently and wife had an accident a few years back. I had no issues and a check for the car's value was issued in less than a week. Goes to show the level of discrepancy in customer service.


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## Getting Fat (Dec 31, 2019)

I know this will be a surprise, but your insurance company is not telling you the whole truth. You have the right to take the car to any shop you want. They have the right to verify the necessity of the repairs. Then if there's a disagreement, a third repair person can look at it.

start here: https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/consumer-protection/automotive-scams/car-repair-tips
then go here: https://www.tdi.texas.gov/rules/bor-auto-english.html


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

@DFW_Zoysia I can chime in here because I used to be an auto damage adjuster for GEICO. I have handled claims like yours from the point of being the customer, and the person telling the customer the things they don't like to hear. I'll give you some information, and don't take my being direct as not being sympathetic. I'm a very compassionate person, and I'm here to help.

The biohazard symbol is on the vehicle to alert people who might get into the car that there are bodily fluids inside, blood, feces, brain matter. You name it, I've seen it. I wore PPE when I was inspecting vehicles like this, because I don't want to get sick or hurt.

Regarding a lawyer, it's typical for any adjuster on first contact to ask if you have retained counsel. This was probably to gauge whether or not you had medical bills coming up so they could set some reserves for BI claims. To be frank, I was always glad when I had a difficult person to tell me that they had a lawyer. That way I could deal with someone on just facts, rather than emotions. Much easier to negotiate settlement that way. If you are dealing with just property damage, it's just as well that you don't involve counsel, because it's not worth their time. If you had been hit by an 18-wheeler, and there was a sizeable medical bill coming up, it would make sense, because they would be able to pay their bills too while negotiating a settlement for you.

You have the right to have your vehicle repaired at any body shop of your choice. It is illegal for any insurance company to steer you toward a particular body shop. I had to specifically advise people of that statement, almost like they were being read their Miranda Rights.

Your policy allows for LKQ(like kind & quality) parts to be installed on your vehicle. Frame damage is no big deal, the vehicle can have the front half cut off, and re-welded, and be stronger than it was before. Any competent body shop will warranty the repairs that they perform to the vehicle. That being said, let's suppose that the damage to your vehicle was in the front, and you need those parts replaced. The body shop locates a similar vehicle with parts that fit the front of your vehicle, and the donor vehicle was hit in the rear. There's nothing wrong with those parts being installed on your vehicle, because they are OEM parts. If LM does have a body shop that they've partnered with, often the time for repair is much faster, which means your claim is settled quicker and you can get a lifetime warranty on any repairs that they perform. That's how the GEICO Auto Repair Express body shops worked, so YMMV.

About the only time you will have brand new parts from the dealer installed on your wrecked vehicle is if you have a new model year car, and there are no aftermarket options on the market yet. One more thing I'll point out is that when you do get your car back, don't worry that the paint on the bumper cover looks different than the fender. It's a different material that the paint is adhering to, so it's going to look slightly different in the light. Take a look at any other vehicle, and you'll see that there's a slight difference between any bumper cover and a metal panel.

Regarding aftermarket parts, many of them carry a better warranty than OEM parts, and they meet the same fit & shaping of the OEM parts at a fraction of the cost. The insurance company is in the business of making you whole, and your policy will do just that. It's going to pay to have your property repaired to its pre-accident condition. That being said, Texas is a state that allows you to be compensated for the diminished value of your vehicle. That means because of the damage to your car, it's worth less (not worthless), and you are entitled to be paid for that loss in value. The DOV payment will be a percentage based upon the total damage of the car based upon its ACV (actual cash value). Your ADA will be able to tell you what to expect.

I realize that this is extremely frustrating, because you were just minding your own business, and now you've got to jump through hoops to take care of damages to your car. Be glad that there aren't any bodily injury claims, because that you can't get another body. You can always get another car.

Before you pull your policies from LM, read your actual policy, not the declarations page. The policy that the rep was speaking about allows for OEM parts only to be placed on the car, and I guarantee that he's paying the additional premium for that policy. A lot of people use the misnomer "Full Coverage" when they actually are getting coverage for Comprehensive, Collision, Bodily Injury and Personal Injury. Wage Earner, rental, new vehicle replacement assistance, gap coverage, and many others fall under the umbrella of insurance coverage. That's why I suggest that you read your actual policy to see *what you are paying for*, rather than what you think you're entitled to just because you're paying a premium for them to cover everything relating to any claim.

That being said, they will make you whole, because that's what they're contractually obligated to do because of the premium that you pay them. Insurance is one of the most highly regulated industries out there on the free market. I'm sorry that you're having to go through this, I really am. Be thankful that you have the coverage to handle your vehicle. Regarding what you'll have to pay, you will be responsible for your deductible, and you pay that to the body shop once the repairs are completed. You can use your DOV check to handle that. You will then subrogate your rights to collect the deductible from the at-fault party, and if your insurer is successful in collecting, they will cut you a check. Most of the time, this is done after they get a judgement against the tortfeasor(responsible party).

I hope this sheds some light on the situation for you. If you have any other questions, I'll be happy to help.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

^^^ Excellent write up. TLF'ers here to help!


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## Gege Hughes (Apr 15, 2020)

I have following this forum for awhile, and it took LM to get me to finally register and post. At some point they will send you a check for the property damage. Read the check carefully as they may put something like "settlement of all claims". You need to avoid this especially if you were injured and making a claim for uninsured motorist coverage. When I was shopping for new coverage I told the agent "anyone but Liberty". Good luck!


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## daniel3507 (Jul 31, 2018)

I always thought you had the right to have OEM parts on any repair? My wife was hit a few months ago. Luckily the driver was insured but by one of those liability only dirt cheap places. The estimate they gave me specifically stated non OEM parts. I took it to a local body shop that has an excellent reputation and they said they will only use OEM and they will handle dealing with insurance. If that insurance company (Hallmark I believe?) Allowed OEM parts I would think a larger company like Liberty Mutual would allow it no problem. I would also be tempted to change insurance providers. It sounds like a very frustrating situation


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

I had read my policy before signing up. It says *may* use OEM or aftermarket parts. I've been to two body shops on this, they both are adamant the parts Liberty Mutual is requiring they put on are sub-standard and unequivocally will not fit properly. They both said Liberty Mutual plays this game and is the worst of the insurance companies to deal with.

I have escalated this to the Texas Department of Insurance.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

DFW_Zoysia said:


> I had read my policy before signing up. It says *may* use OEM or aftermarket parts. I've been to two body shops on this, they both are adamant the parts Liberty Mutual is requiring they put on are sub-standard and unequivocally will not fit properly. They both said Liberty Mutual plays this game and is the worst of the insurance companies to deal with.
> 
> I have escalated this to the Texas Department of Insurance.


I would hire a lawyer if I were you.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

@FlowRider a lawyer will 9 times out of 10 only handle claims when there is BI involved, there's not enough money in it for them for PD(property damage) only. Any settlement that is offered, they're going to take at least 30% of.

Regarding the whole OEM vs. Aftermarket, I'll make an analogy to something that we're all familiar with, prescription medication.

If your doctor writes you a prescription for brand name only medication, your insurance company will likely want to know why you require brand name medication, and you'll have to justify to them why you have to have brand name medication, and why the generic won't work. If that medication isn't on their formulary, you're going to have to pay out of pocket for it. I know for a fact that there's a difference between brand name and generic medication and how it works; there's 2 that I take that are brand name, and I get them direct from the manufacturer.

If everyone only took name-brand medication, and not the generic alternatives, prescription insurance would be through the roof. The same holds true for OEM vs. aftermarket parts. Look back at the explanation I gave for situations when an OEM part would be the only alternative to be installed on any vehicle. The other point is if you drive a Honda, and you get a Honda fender from a donor car, it's still a Honda fender. The verbiage is there to give the insurance company the option to let you have the appearance that you still have a choice in the situation when it comes from getting them to pay for your damages.

I took a call when I was a CSR in claims from a guy who was a GA resident, and he was at the scene of the accident in AL where he was hit by someone who didn't have insurance. He was laughing when he said, "Yeah, I was mad as hell when I found out he didn't have insurance, but I'm happy now because that son of a  is in handcuffs in the back of the cruiser." He then chuckled, and said a few things like "Yeah, serves him right." I never take joy in the misfortune of others, but the way this guy was going on and on. After I took the information from him that he had to give, I pulled up his coverages, and that's when I typically gave the explanation of what their next steps were in handling the claim. Well, he didn't have UMBI/UMPD (uninsured motorist bodily injury/property damage) coverage, which is always on a policy in GA, except for when you reject it. In order to reject it, you have to sign a specific waiver form, it goes to underwriting and they remove that coverage from your policy. Most of the time the reason that people do this is to get state minimum coverages of liability coverage and to get that rock bottom rate.

When I told him there was nothing we could do to help him, he blew his lid. I don't remember exactly what I told him, but it was something to the effect of reminding him that he had to purposefully reject the coverage, and that's why he's in the situation he was in.

I digress. OP, I hope you get resolution to your situation. Right now it seems as though you're stuck between what the body shop is telling you won't work, and that your carrier is saying they won't pay for the parts that the body shop wants to install, and you're in the middle of it. It really does suck that your only option is with your carrier, and they're not playing right; I'm hopeful you get some assistance from the DOI. Keep your cards close to your chest, and be calm.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

@Colonel K0rn Excellent posts


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

Hi @Colonel K0rn ,

I appreciate the write up, but it is not completely accurate.

I actually used to work in the medical field and there are times when a name brand drug actually does work better than the generic. In those cases name brand is allowed and covered by insurance.

I am being told by two different shops the cheap parts Liberty Mutual is trying to put on my car will not fit properly. That is not acceptable.

I am not requesting an OEM parts for the sake of an OEM parts. I am demanding parts that will properly fit on the car. It's that simple. I know insurance companies want us to believe all parts are the same, but that is simply not true. It is a false narrative. T

Also, it's funny if the aftermarket parts are soooooo good like everyone on the insurance side wants us to believe, why did my LM case person slip and tell me they got a special one-off policy to ensure aftermarket parts are never used on their car? I can't believe they slipped and admitted that to me.

Thankfully one of the local news outlets has taken in interest in my case and is going to be reaching out to Liberty Mutual. If LM won't do the right thing, I'm sure a little public embarrassment will work.


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## Tadow781 (Oct 11, 2019)

Good luck. I just take my car to a dealership when it comes to insurance claims. I guess that I assume they are using OEM since they are the dealer and I'd imagine it's harder for an insurance company to say the estimate is not right when the dealer is saying so. I'd also say it would be harder for you to argue the parts are not right when it's the dealer saying so as well.


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

Tadow781 said:


> Good luck. I just take my car to a dealership when it comes to insurance claims. I guess that I assume they are using OEM since they are the dealer and I'd imagine it's harder for an insurance company to say the estimate is not right when the dealer is saying so. I'd also say it would be harder for you to argue the parts are not right when it's the dealer saying so as well.


Exactly. Both body shops are dealer body shops.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Credit where credit is due, I respect your experience with the medical industry. My point was if everyone wanted brand name meds, and that's all the insurance company would pay for and there were no alternatives (i.e. generics) the cost of those medications would be passed along to the consumer in the form of higher premiums. Any insurance company is in the business of being as profitable as possible, and one of those cost-saving methods is by paying for non-OE parts for repairs.



> Also, it's funny if the aftermarket parts are soooooo good like everyone on the insurance side wants us to believe, why did my LM case person slip and tell me they got a special one-off policy to ensure aftermarket parts are never used on their car? I can't believe they slipped and admitted that to me.


 I can't speak for them, and it sounds like they have a different policy than you do, and you trusted whomever you bought the policy from. :dunno:

Regarding the warranty, OEM parts almost always carry a 12 month/12 K mile warranty. I did a quick search for a random vehicle aftermarket parts supplier. 2016 Acura TLX, because that was the first make in the list, and it's not so new of a vehicle.

Aftermarket warranty  What is covered - Replace products are protected by an industry-leading Limited Lifetime Warranty on replacement headlights, side mirrors, plastic and steel bumper covers, fenders, hoods, grilles and other automotive and truck replacement parts. Replace warrants its parts to be free from defects in material and workmanship for as long as the original purchaser owns the vehicle on which the part is installed. The Limited Lifetime Warranty includes perforation (metal rust-through) due to corrosion in normal use. more details on - https://www.carid.com/2016-acura-tlx-fenders/replace-fenders-494335495.html#warranty

Acura Parts Warehouse, which is a subsidiary of American Honda
Acura parts which are distributed by American Honda and sold from, but not installed, by an authorized Acura dealership are covered for 12 months from the date of purchase. Parts that were sold and installed by an authorized Acura dealership are warranted 12 months or 12,000 miles from date of installation.

So, if you have a part that has a 12/12 warranty or one that has a lifetime warranty, I'd say that one with a lifetime warranty on the vehicle it was installed on is much better. But that being said, you've got an 8 month old car, and I'm not sure if this is your first time dealing with an insurance company and body shops. I've got the experience as my career in automotive and insurance, but I don't have a dog in the fight. Best wishes.


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## FlowRider (Apr 7, 2019)

Colonel K0rn said:


> @FlowRider a lawyer will 9 times out of 10 only handle claims when there is BI involved, there's not enough money in it for them for PD(property damage) only. Any settlement that is offered, they're going to take at least 30% of.


I was not saying to hire a lawyer for a bodily injury claim - it sounds like he does not have one....

I would talk to a lawyer about going after the driver of the car that caused the accident.

Right now, it looks like OP has an eight month old otherwise new vehicle that he has to file a claim on, on his own insurance. Under the insurer's subrogation rights, the insurer has a claim against the driver who caused the accident to get their money back that they pay to OP for the repair of the car.

So they will probably pursue recovery of their costs, but not always...sometimes they write off the losses if they think it will cost them more than they can recover. Then they raise OP's premiums....

I would want to talk to a lawyer about making sure the driver that caused the accident makes up any shortfall in the value of the his once factory new vehicle. Unless Liberty Mutual will pay all that.

But since they advertise "Only pay for what you need" they may not make OP whole on his losses.

That is recoverable in damages. I would make sure this driver pays that back to me. And I would do everything I could to make sure this absolutely reckless and dangerous driver cannot drive a car again. I would pursue every legal remedy I had against that driver, and garnish their wages to pay the judgment I get against that driver until I am paid in full. The insurer may not do this, because the insurer will make a business decision that the juice isn't worth the squeeze. I want that driver sued to make sure they feel the full sting of justice, and they can work to pay me back for what they caused.

OP is about to get short changed on the repair, have his premiums increase, and be left driving a damaged vehicle that will show up on CarFax when he tries to sell or trade it in the future.... And he did nothing wrong. That driver keeps doing this because no one makes the driver pay the price....

While I was at it, I would have my lawyer have a talk with the local District Attorney about all this....


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## daniel3507 (Jul 31, 2018)

Odd timing but I've been talking to an independent insurance rep looking at new homeowners and auto insurance. He quoted me and it's a bit lower than what I'm paying now. Turns out it's with SafeCo which is basically Liberty Mutual. After reading this I asked him about OEM parts for the auto policy. He said OEM parts are no problem but it has to be indicated on the policy. Basically a separate option that needs to be specifically selected. He told me that they don't normally include that unless it's asked for.


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## Tadow781 (Oct 11, 2019)

FlowRider said:


> Colonel K0rn said:
> 
> 
> > @FlowRider a lawyer will 9 times out of 10 only handle claims when there is BI involved, there's not enough money in it for them for PD(property damage) only. Any settlement that is offered, they're going to take at least 30% of.
> ...


It all sounds well and good to say get a lawyer and scorch the earth, but until you have gone down that road, let me tell you it is a LOT more time consuming than it is worth and probably not even worth anything. Especially when the other person gets a lawyer and countersues, then it ends up in mediation because a judge is NOT going to hear your case, especially at this point where the courts are likely backlogged to hell and back, then both parties pay the $150 an hour mediator to decide just to settle anyways. If no settlement, then your talking discovery (depositions, witnesses) which you are NOT going to do. So you will settle, be out of pocket a lawyer and a mediation bill, months worth of effort, just to get back OEM parts?!?!?!

Take it on the chin and get a new insurance provider.


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

Tadow781 said:


> FlowRider said:
> 
> 
> > Colonel K0rn said:
> ...


I don't think you understand - it's not about non-oem vs oem parts. It's about getting parts that actually properly FIT my car.


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## Tadow781 (Oct 11, 2019)

When you sue, you have to sue for something i.e. damages. I just don't see any damages if you were given a quote from a licensed body shop that fits the framework of your insurance policy. Especially at this point, since no damages have occured. Now if they fix your car and things start going wrong, then you possibly have damages. But it would be against the body shop IMO.

I'm not a lawyer, but you have to think legal versus right vs wrong. I'm just speaking from my experiences and they are not good no matter how in the right you think you are.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

If the bodyshop says the parts won't fit, why aren't they telling the people who are paying them(LM), that it won't work and they need the OEM part.

Possibly because it could be someone's opinion they don't fit or work. I'd let the body shop and insurance work it out. If you aren't happy with it, bring it up with the body shop who then is obligated to deal with the insurance.


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## driver_7 (Jun 28, 2018)

I have all my policies through Liberty Mutual, no issues whatsoever. They made a mistake with a policy and made it right as soon as I brought it to their attention. YMMV, I suppose.


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

FATC1TY said:


> If the bodyshop says the parts won't fit, why aren't they telling the people who are paying them(LM), that it won't work and they need the OEM part.
> 
> Possibly because it could be someone's opinion they don't fit or work. I'd let the body shop and insurance work it out. If you aren't happy with it, bring it up with the body shop who then is obligated to deal with the insurance.


Look - you are not involved do please don't guess what is going on.

They have brought this up to LM. Repeatedly. And I have TWO body shops who have seen the list of what LM wants to put on and they BOTH say they won't fit right. So LM is being difficult about it.

They want the body shop to order the parts, try and install the parts. Spend weeks doing it. Then they want the body shop to write up a report about why they suddenly won't fit. Then they will need to go to a review phase within LM to see if they feel the parts should be altered (!) to fit the car vs just ordering the right part.

I have spend over 8 hours talking to LM and the body shop.

Please don't be so dismissive of this nor how difficult Liberty Mutual is being when you don't know all the details.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

Please keep this civil @DFW_Zoysia. If you don't want discussion then I can lock this thread if you wish.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

DFW_Zoysia said:


> FATC1TY said:
> 
> 
> > If the bodyshop says the parts won't fit, why aren't they telling the people who are paying them(LM), that it won't work and they need the OEM part.
> ...


Wow. That took quite the turn. I can only imagine why you aren't getting the results you want with the companies involved. Best of luck- not sure why you posted here to pretty much bash everyone who made a comment.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

pennstater2005 said:


> Please keep this civil @DFW_Zoysia. If you don't want discussion then I can lock this thread if you wish.


Probably for the best at this point, not quite sure what he's expecting from anyone other than to pay him on the back and shake a collective fist in the air for him when everyone has made some suggestions about how to go forward given the circumstances.


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

FATC1TY said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> > Please keep this civil @DFW_Zoysia. If you don't want discussion then I can lock this thread if you wish.
> ...


I don't need a pat on the pack or a collective fist in the air. I haven't "bashed" "everyone" who has posted on this thread as you say. I would appreciate people not telling me what I've been fighting is "opinion" when they don't know the details.

I apologize if I reacted strongly. I read your post as being condescending in essence telling me I didn't understand fully what was going on and what was someones opinion. I fully accept it was not meant that way by you but I am beyond my wits end with the bull crap I have been put through needlessly.

I appreciate everyone's feedback on this, bit this issue has become a source of extreme stress. It was more venting when I posted and I can't believe this is still going on with LM. Expecting LM to put on parts that will fit properly is not an unreasonable expectation.

I am planning to go after LM within all legal bounds to make sure my car is repaired correctly. At the end of the day I got an idiot of a claims adjuster and I screwed by that.

Thank you all for your past feedback.


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## Tadow781 (Oct 11, 2019)

Maybe a letter from a lawyer along with the quote you want honored and maybe LM will say screw it and honor the quote. At the least you will find out how much LM is going to dig their heels in.


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## dfw_pilot (Jan 28, 2017)

I think the thread has run its course, for the time being.


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