# The HOA



## DoubleBarrel (May 19, 2019)

One of the neighbors in the HOA recently asked for and received permission from the HOA to modify their fence. A gate was added to allow them to store their boat in the backyard. No covenants against storing the boat, correct protocol was adhered to to gain approval for the fence modifications and the fence was modified per the request. Said neighbor then essentially added a second "driveway" thru the front yard using pavers to back the boat in thru the new gate. The makeshift driveway was not part of the plans so no approval was given. I'm no longer on the board so not privy to all info but from what I can gather the HOA board has mandated he return the front yard to its original state.

Neighbor is now collecting signatures for a petition to allow the "driveway" to stay.

Let's say you were a homeowner asked to sign the petition... would you?


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## Bermuda_Triangle (Sep 20, 2019)

This is multi pronged question.

A lot would depend on which way I would vote.
Do I have a relationship with the neighbor?
Do I know if the neighbor maliciously decided he was going to do this?
Do the pavers add or detract from the neighborhood feel and aesthetic?
Was this neighbor ever a **** to anyone else?
Do I have a beef with the HOA?

Without knowing any of those answers.. on general principal I would sign the petition unless I had information that caste the neighbor in a negative light. If there is any hint of assholery I would be the polar opposite and side with the HOA.


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## DoubleBarrel (May 19, 2019)

No close relationship to the neighbor. Nice family from what I can tell. Hard to say if he was malicious in the makeshift driveway, but I don't think he thought this part of storing his boat out real well. Pavers definitely detract from feel and aesthetic in my opinion. All other homes are concrete parking pads/driveways and each home only has one. Never heard anyone say a cross word against the guy, and I don't have a beef with the HOA. It's a thankless job if you ask me. Everyone takes the "no ones gonna tell me what I can do on my property", but doesn't stop to consider they voluntarily bought in a neighborhood with an HOA.

My major concern is the precedent this could set for others wanting to undertake a similar project and what their "upgrades" will look like.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

I wouldn't sign his petition simply on principle. He should have gotten prior approval if that was required by the covenants. This type of back-door approach irritates me.

Then again, I was an HOA president for several years. It was a truly horrible experience. 99% are wonderful people, but it's that selfish-jerk 1% which ruins land values and make HOAs necessary.

From the HOA's view, any petition probably has no legal standing and is totally irrelevant. But it can have "political" impact withing the community. It comes down to the appearance of the paver driveway and the opinion of his immediate neighbors. If his pavers look gorgeous and cause to trouble for anyone, then most folks will be on his side and the HOA directors may get fired if they don't reverse their stance. If the driveway is janky, poorly maintained, and/or causes genuine problems for his neighbors, then he wont' get any sympathy. He is "at fault" for asking forgiveness rather than permission.


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

The HOA in our neighborhood is a bunch of power-hungry zealots. They will actually ticket you for parking in your own driveway overnight. Yes - you read it. They even mandate if you park you car in your driveway, you much lock your car doors, and it's against the rules to leave your garage door open. I was on one of the committees and tried to get much of this changed to no avail.

It's also illegal to move into our neighborhood on a Sunday or have someone mow your lawn on a Sunday.

Our neighborhood also made national news a few years back with the HOA president went after a resident since he parked his $75K Ford Platinum pickup in his driveway and the President acted out of bounds to send him violation notices since he didn't think the truck was "fancy enough" to be in the driveway.

Little did he know the resident was an attorney who promptly made mince-meat out of him and nationally embarrassed the HOA.

HOA's from my personal experience are often a bunch of people with nothing better to do than think they have more say over your own property than you do. They always claim it's in the interest of "property value". However that is a completely false argument once you get past the basic rules of making sure the lawn is mowed and no broken down abandoned vehicles on the property.

Although I agree I don't like he didn't follow the proper protocol, I absolutely would vote against the HOA.


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## DoubleBarrel (May 19, 2019)

Appreciate the replies. I didn't sign the petition. In my opinion, the modifications don't fit in the neighborhood. I have served on the HOA board for several years, and was actually asked to serve again, but declined. I personally think that if you choose to live in an HOA it should be required service! We barely have enough folks attend the meetings to form a quorum , and forget about getting anyone to volunteer to serve on the board.


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

DoubleBarrel said:


> Appreciate the replies. I didn't sign the petition. In my opinion, the modifications don't fit in the neighborhood. I have served on the HOA board for several years, and was actually asked to serve again, but declined. I personally think that if you choose to live in an HOA it should be required service! We barely have enough folks attend the meetings to form a quorum , and forget about getting anyone to volunteer to serve on the board.


Unfortunately, for much of North Texas moving into a neighborhood with an HOA isn't a "choice".


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

DFW_Zoysia said:


> The HOA in our neighborhood is a bunch of power-hungry zealots. They will actually ticket you for parking in your own driveway overnight. Yes - you read it. They even mandate if you park you car in your driveway, you much lock your car doors, and it's against the rules to leave your garage door open. I was on one of the committees and tried to get much of this changed to no avail.
> 
> It's also illegal to move into our neighborhood on a Sunday or have someone mow your lawn on a Sunday.
> 
> ...


This can't be true... what happens when your vehicle doesn't fit in a garage? They dictate the property and home I own, and then a vehicle I purchase?

Can you mow on Sunday's, or just lawn services?


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

FATC1TY said:


> DFW_Zoysia said:
> 
> 
> > The HOA in our neighborhood is a bunch of power-hungry zealots. They will actually ticket you for parking in your own driveway overnight. Yes - you read it. They even mandate if you park you car in your driveway, you much lock your car doors, and it's against the rules to leave your garage door open. I was on one of the committees and tried to get much of this changed to no avail.
> ...


I'm not sure what you mean by "this can't be true". They have actually been news stories about this. I was on the security committee that was tasked with enforcing this and when I found out about this rule, and I was unable to talk any sense into them I resigned.

The last straw for me was our 85 year old ex-Marine neighbor who had a Honda minivan. The driveway's and garages in our neighborhood can be very narrow and at weird angles. It required him to literally do a 7 point turn to get in and out one his garage every time and it was physically too difficult for him.

He got a ticket and petitioned the committee for an exemption. They literally came out with a tape measure and said the garage was 3" longer than the car so he MUST park in his garage even thought. I was there for all this.

Then the wife of one of the board members got reported. They came out and measured her Tahoe and told her it would fit in the garage if they took the hitch slide out. But of course they mysteriously got an exemption and got to stay in the driveway.

They're thinking is two fold - 1) it is "unattractive" to have vehicles in the driveway and thus they use that nebulous "it detracts from our value BS. 2) I kid you not - because people don't always lock their car doors, it attracts bad guys. We don't want bad guys in our gated community (even though we have private security) thus if there are no cars in the driveway, there won't be unlocked cars, and there won't be bad guys. My retort to this insanity was maybe they should mandate what type of security lights we all have in our driveway and that they be on 24x7(my suggestion to them was not a legit one but to exercise their extremism).


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

@DFW_Zoysia I am very curious, so please forgive these questions...

#1) Is your HOA based on a legal covenant falling under contract law like mine? Or is it based on some other legal mechanism?

#2) Were the covenants always so insanely restrictive? Did your realtor disclose these crazy restrictions before your closed on the house?

#3) If the covenants were initially reasonable, how did the homeowners allow the covenants to be amended into such a mess?

#4) Can you rally the sane homeowners and fire the current directors and restore the convenants to normalcy?

From the start, I have cautioned my neighbors that HOAs are double-edged.

Opressive restrictions harm property values because no sane person wants to move into such a neighborhood. Word gets out eventually and sensible people avoid the overzealous "Yard Nazis".

On the other hand, I live in rural Alabama with no zoning or ordinances for protection. There are $250K to $400K houses in my neighborhood, and these are just some of the issues we have dealt with....


A German Shepard barking 24/7 (_Afraid of the dark, no less_).

Pigs, chickens, and goats being raised in back yards (_Hey Grandpaw! What's fer supper?_).

Derelict cars in driveways, parked on street, and in back yards (_Can you get Ricky Bobby's autograph for me?_).

Forclosed houses abandoned by banks (_They're creepy and they're cooky...._)

Multiple families living in the same house (_Really? You own 9 cars?_).

Swimming pools with no security fence (_illegal but the State refused to enforce_).

A local builder wants to convert a $300K house into a duplex. (_What a tycoon!_)

A guy who wants to run a business from a house (_a.k.a. The "bodega" next door_).

A guy who owns a local nursery parks a diesel trailer-rig on the street so he can start work first thing every morning (_somebody in TLF is gonna get a free Toro Dingo soon_ ).

As a final twist, an attorney warned me that Alabama contract law allows any owner in my neighborhood to directly litigate breach-of-contract against any other owner who fails to comply with the covenants. So I always remind my neighbors that a crucial function of our HOA is to arbitrate disagreements, keep the peace, and avoid litigation between neighbors. Basically, we're a tiny Democracy with checks and balances.


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## FATC1TY (Jul 12, 2017)

And here I thought my HOA was crazy spending 600-750k a year on landscaping.


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## HarryZoysia (Aug 27, 2019)

Reading through these makes me happy that I don't live under the direction of an HOA. Different strokes I guess


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## Mister Bill (Apr 12, 2019)

HarryZoysia said:


> Reading through these makes me happy that I don't live under the direction of an HOA. Different strokes I guess


And that is the rub; if someone does not like rules, they are free to not buy in a neighborhood that has rules. Every homeowner who has ever bought in a HOA neighborhood is required to agree to the covenants of the HOA at the closing table. Those who take the "it's my property and I'll do as I want" attitude after the fact are never good neighbors and are the reason HOA's exist in the first place. In my opinion, the stricter the better.


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## HarryZoysia (Aug 27, 2019)

:bd:


Mister Bill said:


> HarryZoysia said:
> 
> 
> > Reading through these makes me happy that I don't live under the direction of an HOA. Different strokes I guess
> ...


I guess that's what makes the world such an interesting place. Difference of opinions. I'm glad subdivisions can be full of HOA rule followers and then there are bigger tracts of land that allow me no neighbors to have to worry about bothering me or me bothering them. To each his own


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## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

Great thread and some great posts so, I can't help but add to the mix .... herrrrrrre we go!

The transplanted New Yawkers comprising my HOA board have their heads so far up their, err, back pockets THEY TRIED TO GET AN ENTIRELY NEW PROHIBITION PASSED PREVENTING LANDOWNERS ON FARMS OUTSIDE OUR HOA FROM TARGET SHOOTING - ON THEIR OWN, PRIVATELY-OWNED PROPERTY!!!

I am happy to report not only did the most vocal social justice warrior amongst our HOA Board Members get laughed out of a monthly Town Meeting by the Town Aldermen and Alderwoman but the property owners within our HOA also summarily shut em down.

Up until that bizarre behavior, I was perhaps the biggest cheerleader of our board as I recognized how much crap they were dealing with and I never missed an opportunity to thank and praise them publicly. Sadly, I've since learned a lot of trust and confidence was misplaced.

But hey! They did a yeoman's job of driving a wedge between an entire neighborhood where one never existed. (And they cemented the distrust and dislike the surrounding town folk were wavering on, toward our HOA. Niiiiice work, Board! :roll:


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

It's vital for homeowners to only allow folks to serve on HOA boards if they have the right personality. We've axed a few people who were purely mean and spiteful. They constantly searched for ways to badger and irritate homeowners over the most trivial violations. On the other hand, you've got to have enough backbone to be "The Bad Guy" and send out letters if residents are complaining about a genuine problem.

Our biggest headache has been the original developer, real-estate agents, and *lawyers failing to disclose* that restrictive covenants exist on each lot. They found out about the covenants because the HOA was forced to contact them due to violations. Most folks can't understand that the restrictions apply to the property like a zoning law. They didn't need to sign a contract. They may have a valid "failure to disclose" lawsuit against the real-estate brokers and lawyers, but that doesn't stop them from being resentful with the HOA volunteers. In the end, we were forced to put up a sign at the entrance which says, "Covenant Restricted" so new buyers can't miss it.


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## nclawnguy (Jun 27, 2017)

I serve on the board in a small gated community, 30ish homes. 1-17 acre homesites. We tried to put everything in the covenants and by laws so there is no grey area. We do not allow overnight on street parking and no parking on lawn anytime. Cars do not have to be garaged, you can park on your driveway as long as it's on the driveway surface (not lawn) and car is in working order (no junk). Most people have 3+ car garages and many have extended driveways. We let a lot of other stuff slide. We don't like to make issues, if a homeowner brings something to our attention we will address it.


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## Mister Bill (Apr 12, 2019)

nclawnguy said:


> I serve on the board in a small gated community, 30ish homes. 1-17 acre homesites. We tried to put everything in the covenants and by laws so there is no grey area. We do not allow overnight on street parking and no parking on lawn anytime. Cars do not have to be garaged, you can park on your driveway as long as it's on the driveway surface (not lawn) and car is in working order (no junk). Most people have 3+ car garages and many have extended driveways. We let a lot of other stuff slide. We don't like to make issues, if a homeowner brings something to our attention we will address it.


In my experience, those who complain about overbearing autocratic HOA boards are typically the ones not wanting to follow the rules they agreed to when they purchased the property and have little regard for their neighbors concerns. Of course there are exceptions, boards come and go, and boards can be voted out. Nonetheless, people deserve the leaders they vote for; complaining on the internet about HOA's who rule with an iron fist tips the hat as to which side of the fence they are usually on. If two-thirds of a neighborhood does not agree with the complainant, the board is most likely not the root of the problem.


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## bosox_5 (Jun 20, 2018)

I'm following this discussion because the whole HOA thing seems fascinating to me. HOAs are not very common here in Massachusetts so the whole concept seems foreign.


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## DFW_Zoysia (May 31, 2019)

Mister Bill said:


> nclawnguy said:
> 
> 
> > I serve on the board in a small gated community, 30ish homes. 1-17 acre homesites. We tried to put everything in the covenants and by laws so there is no grey area. We do not allow overnight on street parking and no parking on lawn anytime. Cars do not have to be garaged, you can park on your driveway as long as it's on the driveway surface (not lawn) and car is in working order (no junk). Most people have 3+ car garages and many have extended driveways. We let a lot of other stuff slide. We don't like to make issues, if a homeowner brings something to our attention we will address it.
> ...


Interesting. So I guess I was a rebellious trouble maker as I had the nerve to try and move in to my house on a Sunday?

Or when I had to call in a plumber for emergency service on Memorial Day and he was not allowed entry because having contractors in the neighborhood on holidays "disturbs people"

Or somehow having a lawn guy my my lawn on a Saturday is OK but on Sunday it's offense and not allowed.

Don't forget the NERVE I had when I parked my car in my own private driveway over night and got a ticket from the HOA for that.

And that time I lost my roof in an ice storm, got an emergency permit through the HOA and the roofing contractor had the NERVE to park his trailer in my driveway for a single day and I got the violation for that?

Yup - I guess I am just one of those unreasonable rule breakers that has little concern for others trying to impose their ridiculousness on me.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm locking this thread.


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