# Smart Lighting Question



## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

I've been looking into automating some of my home lighting along with a few other SmartHome gadgets. But the lighting in particular has me spinning in circles.

It seems that most of the DIY products offered are very limited in functionality. ie. If you want tunable white bulbs in a zone/scene, then you can't pair them up with a smart switch.

So what is the solution here? Eliminate the traditional switch and uses a Hue-type switch? Eliminating a physical wall control is not a realistic option either.

Maybe the mainstream DIY products aren't what I'm after? I'd love to hear how y'all have tackled your own smart lighting projects.


----------



## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

@MasterMech I moved this over to the newly created "Home Improvement" subforum.


----------



## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Ware said:


> @MasterMech I moved this over to the newly created "Home Improvement" subforum.


Nice!


----------



## bhutchinson87 (Jun 25, 2018)

What exactly are you wanting from your smart home lighting? I think it's important to analyze your wants/needs to what all the different products offer.

I personally use the lutron system and have enjoyed it over the past few years. I can set scenes or schedules and apply them to my devices, and I can also control them from my phone or through Google home.


----------



## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

bhutchinson87 said:


> What exactly are you wanting from your smart home lighting? I think it's important to analyze your wants/needs to what all the different products offer.
> 
> I personally use the lutron system and have enjoyed it over the past few years. I can set scenes or schedules and apply them to my devices, and I can also control them from my phone or through Google home.


It's easier to define what I don't want. I don't want to invest hundreds in smart switches and dimmers to accomplish some automation and then have to toss it all if I want tunable white lighting in several areas.

SWMBO is also a bit finicky in this area. I might intentionally leave a light on for a robot mop/vacuum to finish up it's run in the evening. She'll frequently turn off lights out of habit and ruin the robot's day. All of my robots are visual navigators. (VSLAM)

My personal schedule can also get a bit unpredictable as well. I might arrive home at 6pm, or 3am. I'd like to use some geofencing to activate exterior lighting on approach or automatically dim/extinguish after a certain time in the evening.

She and I are also pretty aware of the effect lighting has on us throughout the day. Simply swapping in daylight bulbs in my sons' home classroom made a noticeable difference in his ability to focus on the work. She hates harsh lighting in the evening, so in my mind, having lighting that can adjust color temperature throughout the day would be a subtle but significant improvement.

I'm also trying to stick with HomeKit, which adds to the frustration at times. We are an iOS family, and data security/privacy is moderately important to us.


----------



## bhutchinson87 (Jun 25, 2018)

@MasterMech Looks like the best product for you would be C by GE. They tick off most of your boxes except for geofencing. I would like to think that this feature could be added through a software update, I'm not so sure how likely that would be. You also might be able to use a combination of features with Homekit to achieve your desired solution, but I am not familiar with that platform.


----------



## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

bhutchinson87 said:


> @MasterMech Looks like the best product for you would be C by GE. They tick off most of your boxes except for geofencing. I would like to think that this feature could be added through a software update, I'm not so sure how likely that would be. You also might be able to use a combination of features with Homekit to achieve your desired solution, but I am not familiar with that platform.


The $75 price tag for a single motion dimmer made me tear up a bit but this does look like a good platform. Too bad no native HomeKit support. I'll do some more digging tonight, thanks!


----------



## bhutchinson87 (Jun 25, 2018)

MasterMech said:


> The $75 price tag for a single motion dimmer made me tear up a bit but this does look like a good platform. Too bad no native HomeKit support. I'll do some more digging tonight, thanks!


Yeah, that is pretty pricey per switch. I believe it is compatible with HomeKit, but I may be missing something. Check out this page.
https://support.gelighting.com/hc/en-us/articles/360041922012-Enable-HomeKit-for-your-Smart-Lights-


----------



## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

bhutchinson87 said:


> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> > The $75 price tag for a single motion dimmer made me tear up a bit but this does look like a good platform. Too bad no native HomeKit support. I'll do some more digging tonight, thanks!
> ...


So as I continue my education in this area, my head spins a little re: all the different networking protocols and connection methods these systems use. In GE's case, they offer Bluetooth connections paired with a Hub to enable HomeKit integration. (vs Wi-Fi direct connections) Bluetooth brings to mind limitations on the number of devices that can be connected but it appears that BLE networks can handle far more than the legacy 7 device limit.

Also, I'm probably purchasing 1-2 HomePod Mini's in the near future to be the primary voice assistant and hub for my HomeKit devices. My wife is excited for the intercom features. We have 3 boys under 10, should save her voice. :lol: Reading up on them, I'd be very curious to see if SmartBulbs using Thread become much more prevalent and we can stop having to buy/hide a hub for several categories of IoT devices. Good thing I'm not in a hurry!


----------



## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

I should also mention that I'm spoiled by experience with a fairly modern IP networked lighting system installed in a large industrial building. Tunable whites, scenes, occupancy based on motion sensors and room sounds, daylight harvesting (photocell), centralized controls, automated schedule logic based on occupancy and schedules, you name it... The system also integrated with the building controls to control thermostat setpoints. (Lighting system dictated space occupancy.)

While I'm not looking for anything quite to this extent, I guess I'm unimpressed by simply being able to turn the lights on/off with my phone.  :roll:


----------



## bhutchinson87 (Jun 25, 2018)

As a professional electrical engineer who specifies everything you just mentioned, I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm envious of all the technology that goes into new commercial construction.


----------



## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

bhutchinson87 said:


> As a professional electrical engineer who specifies everything you just mentioned, I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm envious of all the technology that goes into new commercial construction.


It's a shame that the vast majority of new, even the upper mid-range to high end, residential construction does not even install the bare bones infrastructure for such a system. It wouldn't take anything more than just running Cat6, or even 5e, to each light fixture and switch. That costs very little in the scope of a typical build. Then, when or if the homeowner decides to invest in the fixtures and controllers, install costs/difficulty is dramatically reduced.

Then again, ZWave, ZigBee (Oh... the ZigBee... :lol: ), Thread, and even BLE are making the concept of a wired lighting network either excessive or even impractical as every switch and luminaire would have to be able to utilize a wired network connection, limiting the selection of available devices. Such devices exist, but are marketed for commercial buildings rather than residential. Changes would have to be configured by a network savvy individual. Wired makes a lot of sense in large commercial installations however, all but the biggest mansions are likely to do just fine on a dedicated wireless (for lighting/automation) network.

As I continue my ad-hoc education on what's available to the US DIY market, I'm seeing ways I can solve my initial frustrations, albeit at significant cost still. Has anybody re-wired so that the fixture is always live and just pig-tailed to power a smart switch? I'm browsing smart switches and most are functioning switches with smart capability stacked on top. That's great, for controlling legacy bulbs, but that can be a pretty expensive device if you don't actually need the switching/dimming capability. What if all you actually wanted was a physical control that used your smart home OS to control (switching, dimming, color) a specified lamp or group of lamps with smart bulbs installed? Something that installs in-wall like a traditional switch, and is powered by the mains rather than a battery.


----------



## PGrenauer (Dec 14, 2020)

I use the Caseta by Lutron for all my automated home lighting needs. I tried other brands and finally settled on Lutron because they are a leader in the lighting control industry. Their app works great and I have never had a problem with the units. You can use a integrated wall switch or a device which plugs into your outlet. Example, I have a wall plug device which I only use with our Christmas tree. When Christmas is done it gets packed away. Every year I bring it out we plug it in and it works great. Never have to reprogram it. - Hope this helps!


----------



## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

PGrenauer said:


> I use the Caseta by Lutron for all my automated home lighting needs. I tried other brands and finally settled on Lutron because they are a leader in the lighting control industry. Their app works great and I have never had a problem with the units. You can use a integrated wall switch or a device which plugs into your outlet. Example, I have a wall plug device which I only use with our Christmas tree. When Christmas is done it gets packed away. Every year I bring it out we plug it in and it works great. Never have to reprogram it. - Hope this helps!


I was millimeters from ordering a few Caseta dimmers. I will likely end up using a few Caseta devices for sure but when I really thought about what I wanted from a smart lighting investment, I realized that legacy CFLs/LEDs paired with a smart dimmer would only do half the job. I really wanted the bulbs to be able to shift color/tone as well and that means a smart bulb. I could probably live with the $60-$70 price tag of the switches (Motion, dimmer, switch) and simply not wire the lamps to the output of the switch, but I don't think Caseta has a switch that would work that way? If I were to go with Phillips Hue for the lighting, they have a switch

One option I'm considering, but would not help me (At all!) as far as the install cost, would be to use a Brillant Home Controller and then add their dimmer switches as required. In theory, this should allow me to run any bulb and utilize all of the capabilities of the switch or the bulb, and have it work in HomeKit with Siri voice control. It also would add Alexa, but not sure I'm up to adding another personality in the home at the moment. :lol:


----------



## Drewfallin (Aug 24, 2020)

I'm probably a little late to the party but here's my 2 cents from my experience. Really comes down to what environment you prefer: Alexa, Google, HomeKit, etc. I've found Google to be much more reliable than the others even though they don't have as many choices. Plus, Amazon keeps rolling out new features that open your network up to the outside world and has recently been hacked. I've used the smart switches and they weren't reliable at the time I was installing them a while back, so I've found that the old fashion paddle/rocker switch with the use of Google has been more than sufficient. I've just left the switches on and used voice commands, now being too lazy to even use a light switch. If you want to go full home integration on the cheap, go with Home Assistant on a raspberrypi. If you do go with the raspberrypi you can use Shelly and create your own switches.


----------



## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Drewfallin said:


> I'm probably a little late to the party but here's my 2 cents from my experience. Really comes down to what environment you prefer: Alexa, Google, HomeKit, etc. I've found Google to be much more reliable than the others even though they don't have as many choices. Plus, Amazon keeps rolling out new features that open your network up to the outside world and has recently been hacked. I've used the smart switches and they weren't reliable at the time I was installing them a while back, so I've found that the old fashion paddle/rocker switch with the use of Google has been more than sufficient. I've just left the switches on and used voice commands, now being too lazy to even use a light switch. If you want to go full home integration on the cheap, go with Home Assistant on a raspberrypi. If you do go with the raspberrypi you can use Shelly and create your own switches.


Thanks for chiming in! Can't be late to this party. I am SLOW and I'm in no hurry here, just kicking tires and exploring what I could do in my home without getting a second mortgage and having a custom installer install Control4 (and being beholden to them for every single change...). In my research, I noticed that there is unofficial/3rd party HomeKit firmware available for Shelly devices which peaks my interest some. But knowing my wife, even if she does buy in to voice and app control of the home, she's going to hit a physical switch if it's available and wreak havoc on any automations. It's a challenge finding devices that fit the spec requirements AND have a price I can live with, all while maintaining HomeKit functionality. One area where I'm weak in understanding is workarounds for devices that do not natively support HomeKit. ie. If I have a bunch of smart widgets that work with say, Brilliant home controllers, which advertise HomeKit compatibility, do all of those devices all of a sudden work from HomeKit as well? If they do, I'm sure it's to varying degrees of functionality too. Much to learn still , I have.


----------



## rotolow (May 13, 2020)

I have a combination of Hue (Ambience bulbs) and Caseta Dimmers/Fan Controllers. I have a SmartThings hub (for automation) and we're pretty heavily invested in the Alexa ecosystem (for voice control). Most of the time I find myself using the Hue or Lutron Apps rather than asking Alexa anything.

Hue Ambience White was the game changer for us tho. The ability to control color temperature in our commonly used areas (kitchen, living, dining, office, master bed) is amazing. The kids rooms/guest room get Caseta devices for basic dimming.

We're also using Hue Ambience in our outdoor lights as well. Nice to have our front lights set to "nightlight" and I don't feel bad about leaving them on all night.


----------



## bhutchinson87 (Jun 25, 2018)

MasterMech said:


> Thanks for chiming in! Can't be late to this party. I am SLOW and I'm in no hurry here, just kicking tires and exploring what I could do in my home without getting a second mortgage and having a custom installer install Control4 (and being beholden to them for every single change...). In my research, I noticed that there is unofficial/3rd party HomeKit firmware available for Shelly devices which peaks my interest some. But knowing my wife, even if she does buy in to voice and app control of the home, she's going to hit a physical switch if it's available and wreak havoc on any automations. It's a challenge finding devices that fit the spec requirements AND have a price I can live with, all while maintaining HomeKit functionality. One area where I'm weak in understanding is workarounds for devices that do not natively support HomeKit. ie. If I have a bunch of smart widgets that work with say, Brilliant home controllers, which advertise HomeKit compatibility, do all of those devices all of a sudden work from HomeKit as well? If they do, I'm sure it's to varying degrees of functionality too. Much to learn still , I have.


I know the 3rd party stuff can look inviting, but I will tell you that a friend of mine did something similar with SmartThings and when Samsung updated their software it practically disabled everything he had done.


----------



## sneakbreeze (Sep 2, 2020)

I have installed a few z-wave switches, door sensors, and a garage tilt sensor at the moment. With plans to replace a few more switches and some bulbs this year.

My recommendation would be to look into home assistant. From a privacy perspective, you own and host everything so your data is truly yours. From a functionality standpoint it allows you to integrate pretty much any major home automation devices and protocols and control them all in one app. I know you mentioned geofencing previously, and it most definitely has that feature.

When I first started looking into home automation once I got a home I was really put off by the different protocols and how nothing seemed to bring it all together. There is a learning curve with home assistant but IMO it cannot be beat. If you have any questions about it just let me know!


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@sneakbreeze how do you bridge the zwave devices with the raspberry pi home automation? I'm tired of the new app from smartthings. Everything used to work and now the new one (4 months ago) has less functionality. I want to replace the hub.


----------



## sneakbreeze (Sep 2, 2020)

@g-man

I use https://www.getzooz.com/zooz-zst10-s2-stick.html as my z-wave controller and have had no issues for the past 2 years or so.

Here is the documentation for the supported z-wave controllers, sometimes their documentation can be tricky to find. https://www.home-assistant.io/docs/z-wave/controllers/

I added a few screenshots of what it looks like from within Home Assistant. Network-management shows the management aspect of your z-wave network. Doesn't matter what brand (for the most part) if it's a z-wave device I can add it into my network. Devices shows a list of the devices that I currently have running, including my z-wave hub. Lovelace-view shows the "front end" or more polished view of what you would see when you login to the app. I have full control of my switches and can see history and status from that view as well.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@sneakbreeze I ended up buying a raspberry pi and a Zwave/zigbee usb stick. I'm running Home Assistant. I switched away from Smartthings. It took some time to set it up but their discord is very helpful.


----------



## sneakbreeze (Sep 2, 2020)

@g-man That is awesome to hear, I'm glad you made the switch. As you found out, the community is very helpful. Now that you are up and running you get to the fun part of buying a bunch of new stuff! Feel free to message me if you have any questions about anything.


----------



## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Just an update, I have tip-toed into the world of smart lighting with two table lamps in the entryway. I bought a HomePod Mini and two Nanoleaf Essentials A19 bulbs. (Thread enabled!) So far so good. The kids are enamored with the ability to tell Siri to change the light colors.


----------

