# really disappointed in the Maya Bermuda



## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Don't get me wrong, it's way better than the Bahia/weeds I had before! But it is slow to fill in, not a lot of stolons, etc. The areas where the wild bermuda took over look much better than the areas with the Maya bermuda - much more of a carpet effect with lots of horizontal growth. And the wild bermuda may be darker. Only thing nicer about the Maya is it is significantly softer - feels great on the feet.


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## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

Me too, as you probably know.

Honestly, I hate to say that, because I can picture future prospective Maya users googling/binging the topic, seeing this, and running away. And maybe that isn't fair to the company who produced it, because it did test well in the NTEP. But we both had similar results.

I wonder if we can figure out why this is. Do the NTEP people have more perfect conditions somehow? I didn't take good care of mine, as I semi-gave up on mine during our drought, but you took very good care of yours. But did the NTEP testers use more fertilizer, have better soil, more perfect irrigation, etc?

If it's any consolation, I grew a mix of about 65% Transcontinental and it looked similar: Finer bladed, softer feeling, sort of wispy... almost doesn't look like Bermuda, or at least common/wild Bermuda. And it also got good to very good NTEP scores back when it was newer.

I wish I knew what the deal was if only for curiosity. Anyone out there have any ideas?


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Chocolate Lab said:


> Me too, as you probably know.
> 
> Honestly, I hate to say that, because I can picture future prospective Maya users googling/binging the topic, seeing this, and running away. And maybe that isn't fair to the company who produced it, because it did test well in the NTEP. But we both had similar results.
> 
> ...


I wonder if part of it is the irrigation - I have some dryer patches where the sprinkler coverage is less than ideal, and I do go out and hand water those spots now but didn't always. But still, even in the dense areas where it established really well it has almost no stolons - it's really strange. Soft, feels nice, more like fine zoysia than bermuda.

Maybe what NTEP likes and what we like is different? I mean, it's nice and fine bladed, which got it great marks, but I'd rather more stolons and horizontal spread. As it is, the bare patches got filled in with common bermuda, which is fine with me.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

And you are right when you say it barely looks like bermuda. Everyone asks me if it is Zoysia. Now, that may be just because Zoysia is more common than bermuda around here, but still.

I also saw that they are not even selling it on its own anymore - only in a blend.


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## Quitplayingcrabgrass (Apr 3, 2019)

I had a similar experience.

Pros: great germination and soft feel.

Cons: thin, and I can say zero horizontal growth. Also had a light green color to it, almost like ARG.

I also noticed that it grew straight up, much faster than my commons or weeds. Could be that it was just young and maybe I didn't seed at the right rate.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Quitplayingcrabgrass said:


> I had a similar experience.
> 
> Pros: great germination and soft feel.
> 
> ...


Yes! I grows up very quickly - needs mowing twice as soon as the common bermuda. Not exactly a plus. Lots of vertical growth, zero horizontal growth. And yes, my common is significantly darker green. So I have a patchwork - but it's still better than what was here before.

I'd be thinking renovation and starting over if it wasn't for two things - even with the patchwork appearance and thin areas it is one of the best lawns on the block, if not the best, so I'm going to hit diminishing returns on curb appeal in this location, an we plan to move in the next year, so not wanting to put that money/time into it when again, diminishing returns.


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## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

I got the same vertical growth that seems very much like individual blades as opposed my Monaco which got so thick (even with almost no rainfall) that I'm getting some washboarding even with a sharpened and adjusted 7-blade McLane manual mower.

Maybe that would be a plus for some, that it's easier to mow? I've probably said before that I almost wish my yards were reversed -- Maya in front and Monaco in back. That way my front that is mostly just for appearance would look good. But I want a thick carpet that I can actively use in the back, so I'll be renovating again next year back there.

One thing if you see this, Quitplaying... How low did you mow yours? I didn't go very low with the Maya because I knew i couldn't keep it moist enough with our summer drought. I wondered if maybe it needs to be mowed lower than other varieties to encourage lateral growth. I didn't mow the Monaco low either, though -- about an inch a the lowest -- and it spread like crazy.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

I have mowed as low as 0.75, and as high as 1.75, with no difference in lateral growth. I even scalped it down under 0.5 and no real change. I normally mow about 1 inch to 1.5 inches due to an uneven yard.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I saw some literature on Maya that states its ideal maintenance height is between 1-2 inches. This might not be a good grass for going reel low. Sounds like it is more for big areas that are rough cut.


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## Quitplayingcrabgrass (Apr 3, 2019)

@Chocolate Lab my yard isn't ready for a reel yet (need to level next spring) so I've been using troy bilt rotary mower. I go on the lowest setting to reset HOC (I believe around 1.25") and then next one up (Around 1.5"). When mowing regularly you still see the vertical growth.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> I saw some literature on Maya that states its ideal maintenance height is between 1-2 inches. This might not be a good grass for going reel low. Sounds like it is more for big areas that are rough cut.


thank you for that! I actually tried contacting the company I bought the seed from about the best height and never heard back, so that's helpful.

I've actually been really busy and mowing less often (every 3-4 days instead of every 2 days) and it seems happier that way. Seems it needs maybe that extra bit of leaf blade growth to get enough photosynthesis or something.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I have never mowed any given area more often than 2 x in a 7 day period. I If grass is thin, let it grow, mowing it can wait. By incessantly mowing, leaves are being cut.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> I have never mowed any given area more often than 2 x in a 7 day period. I If grass is thin, let it grow, mowing it can wait. By incessantly mowing, leaves are being cut.


That makes sense. I'd heard so often to mow more frequently, don't cut off too much, etc but when life got busy recently (I homeschool and our school year started in September) I remembered you saying that the 1/3 rule was for cool season grass, not bermuda, and gave myself permission to back off. Seems to be working!


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

So, thinking toward spring I'm wondering if it is totally insane to put down some different seed. Not kill this off totally, just scalp it and throw down some variety that has a better lateral growth pattern than this stuff. Because at this point the common bermuda is so much better - more dense, less top growth, more lateral growth. Which keeps the weeds out of those areas. The Maya areas just refuse to grow densely - still zero lateral growth, - no stolons no matter what height I cut it at, how frequently, fertilizer, etc. I know color won't match great, but if it is something that spreads laterally it will likely out compete this stuff eventually.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

ktgrok said:


> So, thinking toward spring I'm wondering if it is totally insane to put down some different seed. Not kill this off totally, just scalp it and throw down some variety that has a better lateral growth pattern than this stuff. Because at this point the common bermuda is so much better - more dense, less top growth, more lateral growth. Which keeps the weeds out of those areas. The Maya areas just refuse to grow densely - still zero lateral growth, - no stolons no matter what height I cut it at, how frequently, fertilizer, etc. I know color won't match great, but if it is something that spreads laterally it will likely out compete this stuff eventually.


That might well be a good plan. Get another named variety seed, then grow it out. Then mow it at a height that the Maya cannot handle. I have never heard of a Bermuda other than the pasture varieties that does not react well to low mowing. This is good for me to know.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> ktgrok said:
> 
> 
> > So, thinking toward spring I'm wondering if it is totally insane to put down some different seed. Not kill this off totally, just scalp it and throw down some variety that has a better lateral growth pattern than this stuff. Because at this point the common bermuda is so much better - more dense, less top growth, more lateral growth. Which keeps the weeds out of those areas. The Maya areas just refuse to grow densely - still zero lateral growth, - no stolons no matter what height I cut it at, how frequently, fertilizer, etc. I know color won't match great, but if it is something that spreads laterally it will likely out compete this stuff eventually.
> ...


Yeah, I have to admit I'm shocked that the stuff I paid money for doesn't respond, yet the wild bermuda that the neighborhood has loves the low mowing! Heck, it loves any kind of "abuse", lol. Round up just makes it come back thicker and greener, low mowing makes it thicken up and dense, etc. Meanwhile the Maya still acts like it is a seedling....growing up, but not out.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Hancock Seed recommended BlackJack as being easy to establish, and aggressive horizontal growth, and said it does well in Florida. Think I'll try that.

Of course, that means no pre emergent in the spring, right? Ugh. I suppose I can put one down once it establishes - it supposedly germinates in 5 days and is established in 4-6 weeks - maybe could do one after that?


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

ktgrok said:


> Hancock Seed recommended Royal Bengal as being easy to establish, and aggressive horizontal growth, and said it does well in Florida. Think I'll try that.
> 
> Of course, that means no pre emergent in the spring, right? Ugh. I suppose I can put one down once it establishes - it supposedly germinates in 5 days and is established in 4-6 weeks - maybe could do one after that?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

ktgrok said:


> Hancock Seed recommended BlackJack as being easy to establish, and aggressive horizontal growth, and said it does well in Florida. Think I'll try that.
> 
> Of course, that means no pre emergent in the spring, right? Ugh. I suppose I can put one down once it establishes - it supposedly germinates in 5 days and is established in 4-6 weeks - maybe could do one after that?


Have Quicksilver and Quinclorac in hand. Celsius and Revolver is also usable on recently seeded Bermuda.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

I have some Quicksilver and will get more by then, and have the quinclorac and Celsius as well. Never again will I put down seed without Quicksilver on hand!


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## Quitplayingcrabgrass (Apr 3, 2019)

Not to bring up bad memories but I've also noticed that the Maya has stayed pretty green the majority of the winter. We've had a wacky winter down in Georgia but the other Bermuda has been dormant for a while.

Just thought it was interesting as I don't remember reading that maya was cold tolerant by any means.


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## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

@ktgrok, so was it Blackjack or Royal Bengal? Looks like maybe you meant to edit but then quoted yourself a few posts ago? (We've all done it...)


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## BermudaBen (Aug 28, 2019)

@ktgrok I know this is an old thread, but any update on your maya bermuda? I ordered 10lbs of blackjack in September and made the mistake of only sowing about 7lbs in my 8,000sf lawn because I figured the winter would kill it. It thrived even through the mild winter, so I put out the last of the 3lbs that I had and ordered an unnecessarily large amount of 25lbs because I liked it so much. Seed Ranch decided to send me Maya instead. Well, it's been about a month and a half after overseeding about 15lbs and I'm facing the same problems you talk about here. It's thin, stemmy, and only grows up. Meanwhile my blackjack is super thick, even at the less than ideal rate I seeded. I just don't understand.


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## Cwal21 (Jul 20, 2020)

@ktgrok Really curious on the status of your Maya. I've been contemplating what Bermuda to go with here on my west texas dirt. Overall I'll need between 1/4 acre to half an acre (eventually) and have been on the fence between Maya and Blackjack. There's a supplier nearby that has some blackjack in stock but then I heard it was being replaced with Maya that is a better version? After reading your issues I'm likely to go with the old blackjack he's got on the shelf. But, I've also contemplated on Arden 15. Anyone recommend Arden 15 over blackjack? OR is Maya still good to go with? Not sure what to do at this point!?

Any feedback is much appreciated!


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## BudaTx (Jul 15, 2020)

The Blackjack I bought this year came as Blackjack Maya. Now I'm not sure if I will use it.


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## Chocolate Lab (Jun 8, 2019)

@Cwal21 I'm the other person who grew Maya and had the same experience as ktgrok... Of the two, I'd go with blackjack for the reasons stated earlier in the thread. Arden is a much higher grade than the Blackjack, but a lot more expensive also.

I also have to put in a plug for Monaco, another newer and higher end one that I used and love. Like Arden it costs a little more but I wouldn't skimp on the seed with all the other expense and effort involved. Btw, I'm around Wichita Falls, so sort of west Texas. The Monaco has very good cold tolerance which is good for us in the transition zone (unless you're in more sw Texas).


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## BermudaBen (Aug 28, 2019)

@Cwal21 I have had nothing but issues with my Maya, I hate it. I've read that in this price range Royal Bengal and LaPrima are MUCH better options. If you can actual get Blackjack, I'd say go for it. I ended up with the Maya trying to reorder Blackjack. I sowed 10lbs of Blackjack in late October last year in the worst soil and had germination in just a few days. By mid-November it was spreading like wildfire until it went dormant and the weeds took over.


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## Mangy_turf (Apr 18, 2020)

For those who stumble across this thread, Maya is Blackjack II. I had success with Blackjack, not sure why Maya has had problems - makes no sense that the improved variety is lesser than that which it was supposed to be an improvement upon. Blackjack is getting more difficult to find, Maya's cost seems to be dropping.


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