# Pre and post emerge...



## Txmx583 (Jun 8, 2017)

So I've never really used any and I'm thinking of getting some Prodiamine. How long does a 5lb container last typically? I will use it in my back pack sprayer and have about 4200k sqft of lawn.. Also what do you guys usually use for post emerge? I've usually just used Ortho weed b gone, Scott's weed and feed or similar in the past.. just curious as to what you guys use?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Txmx583 said:


> So I've never really used any and I'm thinking of getting some Prodiamine. How long does a 5lb container last typically? I will use it in my back pack sprayer and have about 4200k sqft of lawn.. Also what do you guys usually use for post emerge? I've usually just used Ortho weed b gone, Scott's weed and feed or similar in the past.. just curious as to what you guys use?


The 5lb jug of Prodiamine will last you probably for the foreseeable future as long as you store it in a dry location, you could probably split it with a neighbor or friend and still have enough to last you 5-10 years if not more 

As for Post Emergent, your two best bets are Celsius and Certainty. The upfront costs are a little on the high side but they are actually cheaper in the long run and will kill 99% of the weeds in your lawn and both bottles should last you quite a long while. I have a bottle of Celsius that is well over 5 years old.

All 3 of these are Wettable Powders, so as long as you keep the product dry they will last forever.


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## Redtenchu (Jan 28, 2017)

+1 MQ


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## Txmx583 (Jun 8, 2017)

Mightyquinn said:


> Txmx583 said:
> 
> 
> > So I've never really used any and I'm thinking of getting some Prodiamine. How long does a 5lb container last typically? I will use it in my back pack sprayer and have about 4200k sqft of lawn.. Also what do you guys usually use for post emerge? I've usually just used Ortho weed b gone, Scott's weed and feed or similar in the past.. just curious as to what you guys use?
> ...


Awesome thanks man!!!! I'll order some Prodiamine today!!


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

A 5 lb container of Prodiamine should do 96,000 ft2 at the 0.83 oz per 1000 ft2 yearly max rate. In your case with a yard the size of 4200 ft2 it should last you 22+ yrs.


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## WarEagle26 (Sep 14, 2017)

Even if stored in a dry location, is there a shelf-life on it to be concerned with? Has anyone noticed reduced effectiveness after a certain number of years?

About a year ago I switched over from a granular product containing Dimension and bought a 5lb jug of Prodiamine wettable granules. I have about 6000 sq ft of lawn and am putting down about .45 oz per 1000 sq ft per application with two applications per year (so just slightly more than the max annual application listed on the label). At that rate, I figured I would _theoretically_ get about 15 years out of it, but wasn't sure if it would lose it's effectiveness or not over time.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Plus there is also the issue of plant resistance...

The chemical could still be in like-new condition, but no longer effective at controlling a particular weed due to plant resistance.


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## high leverage (Jun 11, 2017)

WarEagle26 said:


> Even if stored in a dry location, is there a shelf-life on it to be concerned with? Has anyone noticed reduced effectiveness after a certain number of years?
> 
> About a year ago I switched over from a granular product containing Dimension and bought a 5lb jug of Prodiamine wettable granules. I have about 6000 sq ft of lawn and am putting down about .45 oz per 1000 sq ft per application with two applications per year (so just slightly more than the max annual application listed on the label). At that rate, I figured I would _theoretically_ get about 15 years out of it, but wasn't sure if it would lose it's effectiveness or not over time.


It looks like Prodiamine first hit the market in 1993. There might be someone out there that has had it for 15 yrs. But It all come down to cost per app. How much are you saving using the Prodiamine vs the granular with dithiopyr? I'd bet even if the Prodiamine only lasted you 5 yrs you would still be ahead. It is far more cost effective to spray herbicides than it is the spread them in a granular form.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

Mentioning pre and post emergents, I can't be the only one that gets excited when goodies like this show up at the door.



Also just realized if had brand name Barricade in the photo, it would almost be a Syngenta advertisement for poa annua control.


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## Txmx583 (Jun 8, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> Mentioning pre and post emergents, I can't be the only one that gets excited when goodies like this show up at the door.
> 
> 
> 
> Also just realized if had brand name Barricade in the photo, it would almost be a Syngenta advertisement for poa annua control.


Nice!!! Where did you order your Prodiamine from? I need to get some


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## gatormac2112 (Sep 14, 2017)

I'm going to hijack this thread to get a little more info. I've ordered a Chapin 20v backpack sprayer and have some Talstar P and Prodiamine 65WDG coming tomorrow. However, as I haven't applied the Pre-e in time, I have some weeds already showing. From other threads it seems a popular post-e is Certainty.

My question is this: as Certainty comes in small volume (1.25oz.), how far does that go? It seems the Prodiamine will last forever, but the Certainty will be gone and at roughly $90 a pop thats no fun. Do you just put a small scoop into a gallon and then just spot treat, that gallon getting the entire yards spots?

EDIT: and another noob question: Do you guys color mark your spray every time you do the whole lawn? How long is the lawn discolored or do you wash it away when watering in the treatment? (if you water in the treatment) Which color marker do you use?


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

gatormac2112 said:


> I'm going to hijack this thread to get a little more info. I've ordered a Chapin 20v backpack sprayer and have some Talstar P and Prodiamine 65WDG coming tomorrow. However, as I haven't applied the Pre-e in time, I have some weeds already showing. From other threads it seems a popular post-e is Certainty.
> 
> My question is this: as Certainty comes in small volume (1.25oz.), how far does that go? It seems the Prodiamine will last forever, but the Certainty will be gone and at roughly $90 a pop thats no fun. Do you just put a small scoop into a gallon and then just spot treat, that gallon getting the entire yards spots?
> 
> EDIT: and another noob question: Do you guys color mark your spray every time you do the whole lawn? How long is the lawn discolored or do you wash it away when watering in the treatment? (if you water in the treatment) Which color marker do you use?


Most don't broadcast spray Certainty, they use it primarily for sedges and just spot spray them.

For broadcast post emergence Celsius is your best, safest and cheapest route. It's not cheap up front (around $100) but when breaking it down per application it's cheapest. Plus it has no temperature restrictions like a 2, 4D product.

I use a blue marking due when I broadcast spray but not when spot spraying. When spot spraying I normally just walk straight lines across the lawn and get anything I can reach. Then move over 4-5' and walk back the other direction. I can usually tell what weeds have already been sprayed as they will still look a little wet.

Most herbicides recommend around 24 hours before any rainfall or irrigation. The marking dye I use washes off easily with the sprinklers.


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## gatormac2112 (Sep 14, 2017)

J_nick said:


> gatormac2112 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to hijack this thread to get a little more info. I've ordered a Chapin 20v backpack sprayer and have some Talstar P and Prodiamine 65WDG coming tomorrow. However, as I haven't applied the Pre-e in time, I have some weeds already showing. From other threads it seems a popular post-e is Certainty.
> ...


Great, thanks for the reply....what marker do you use?


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Not even sure of the brand. It's just what our local farm & ranch store sells. They sell red and green too, green I think would be useless but I've wondered if the red would give the lawn a purple tint.

My local store is called Atwood's most of their branches are in Oklahoma and the surrounding states but anything like Tractor Supply would have what you need if you don't do online.


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## raldridge2315 (Jul 1, 2017)

gatormac2112 said:


> I'm going to hijack this thread to get a little more info. I've ordered a Chapin 20v backpack sprayer and have some Talstar P and Prodiamine 65WDG coming tomorrow. However, as I haven't applied the Pre-e in time, I have some weeds already showing. From other threads it seems a popular post-e is Certainty.
> 
> My question is this: as Certainty comes in small volume (1.25oz.), how far does that go? It seems the Prodiamine will last forever, but the Certainty will be gone and at roughly $90 a pop thats no fun. Do you just put a small scoop into a gallon and then just spot treat, that gallon getting the entire yards spots?
> 
> EDIT: and another noob question: Do you guys color mark your spray every time you do the whole lawn? How long is the lawn discolored or do you wash it away when watering in the treatment? (if you water in the treatment) Which color marker do you use?


It's never too late for the prodiamine, but the longer you wait, the more fall germination you will have. Conversely, it will last further into the spring. September 15 is an idea date for us, but go ahead and put it down as soon as you can. Time is a'wastin. Don't, I repeat don't, miss that February 15 date.

I don't have any experience with Certainty, but I can't imagine why you would broadcast spray it. I would think that weed problems would need to be extreme to warrant broadcast spray of any product (pre-emergents excepted). Why spray where there are no weeds. Marking dye will wash off with the first irrigation or rain. I've even had a hard time seeing it after a heavy dew. I don't think the brand makes any difference.


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## MsTin (Sep 5, 2017)

J_nick said:


> Not even sure of the brand. It's just what our local farm & ranch store sells. They sell red and green too, green I think would be useless but I've wondered if the red would give the lawn a purple tint.
> 
> My local store is called Atwood's most of their branches are in Oklahoma and the surrounding states but anything like Tractor Supply would have what you need if you don't do online.


I just went to my local Tractor Supply and they didn't have any tracker dye, girl there said that she (paraphrasing)' has never heard of it and that they [Tractor Supply] don't have that there.' I had to drive another 20 minutes in the opposite direction to go to SiteOne and got it there.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Tractor Supply Spray Indicator


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

MsTin said:


> ...I had to drive another 20 minutes in the opposite direction to go to SiteOne and got it there.


If it dulls the pain any, I'd have to drive 2 hours in the opposite direction to get to a Site One. #ruralAmerica :lol:


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I've driven and hour and half to get fertilizer before


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## gatormac2112 (Sep 14, 2017)

Ware said:


> Tractor Supply Spray Indicator


Thats hilarious. I just went to the local TSC and they asked me if I needed any help when I came in the store, so I asked them if they carried any. They acted like I was on drugs and had never heard of anything so crazy. I just ordered some on amazon, will be here saturday


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## gatormac2112 (Sep 14, 2017)

raldridge2315 said:


> gatormac2112 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to hijack this thread to get a little more info. I've ordered a Chapin 20v backpack sprayer and have some Talstar P and Prodiamine 65WDG coming tomorrow. However, as I haven't applied the Pre-e in time, I have some weeds already showing. From other threads it seems a popular post-e is Certainty.
> ...


Thanks for the tips, I'm going to get it down Saturday


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## MsTin (Sep 5, 2017)

gatormac2112 said:


> Ware said:
> 
> 
> > Tractor Supply Spray Indicator
> ...


+1


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## gatormac2112 (Sep 14, 2017)

raldridge2315 said:


> gatormac2112 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to hijack this thread to get a little more info. I've ordered a Chapin 20v backpack sprayer and have some Talstar P and Prodiamine 65WDG coming tomorrow. However, as I haven't applied the Pre-e in time, I have some weeds already showing. From other threads it seems a popular post-e is Certainty.
> ...


You mention February 15th as the date to put a pre-e down. Isn't that too early? Or is there never a too early? It seems February is still pretty cold here in North Bama, would think maybe March 1st at the earliest? February 15 - September 15 is also 7 months, isn't that too long between pre-e's?


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

gatormac2112 said:


> You mention February 15th as the date to put a pre-e down. Isn't that too early? Or is there never a too early? It seems February is still pretty cold here in North Bama, would think maybe March 1st at the earliest? February 15 - September 15 is also 7 months, isn't that too long between pre-e's?


With pre-e, it's much better to be too early than too late, and February 15 to March 1 is really only 2 weeks. For me, that's within the margin of error if I'm applying a product at the ~6 month rate.

The key is just to have an active pre-e barrier established at the times when your weeds are germinating, and early spring weed pressure is much higher than late summer.


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## gatormac2112 (Sep 14, 2017)

Ware said:


> gatormac2112 said:
> 
> 
> > You mention February 15th as the date to put a pre-e down. Isn't that too early? Or is there never a too early? It seems February is still pretty cold here in North Bama, would think maybe March 1st at the earliest? February 15 - September 15 is also 7 months, isn't that too long between pre-e's?
> ...


Sounds good to me! Thanks again :thumbup:


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I usually wait until early March, but it's not uncommon to see the local LCO's making their rounds in early February.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

gatormac2112 said:


> You mention February 15th as the date to put a pre-e down. Isn't that too early? Or is there never a too early? It seems February is still pretty cold here in North Bama, would think maybe March 1st at the earliest? February 15 - September 15 is also 7 months, isn't that too long between pre-e's?


According to Auburn, for north and central Alabama, February is the time to apply pre-ems for zoysia and bermuda. You're welcome to watch the soil temps and try to time it yourself.

http://cses.auburn.edu/turfgrass-management/wp-content/uploads/sites/58/2017/01/Zoysia-Lawn-Calendar-North-Central-AL.pdf


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## gatormac2112 (Sep 14, 2017)

Movingshrub said:


> gatormac2112 said:
> 
> 
> > You mention February 15th as the date to put a pre-e down. Isn't that too early? Or is there never a too early? It seems February is still pretty cold here in North Bama, would think maybe March 1st at the earliest? February 15 - September 15 is also 7 months, isn't that too long between pre-e's?
> ...


Thanks for the tip! I will do it middle February after checking soil temp :thumbup:


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