# Fescue - Can't keep it Green



## Rusty300 (May 20, 2021)

I have about 3,000 SF 1-year-old tall fescue (enduro 90/10) and I cannot keep it green. I've not put fert on it with any real schedule and my sprinklers run every day but I still have a lot of brown spots. The sprinklers are overlapping but maybe they suck. I have brown and black spots and still pay $300 a month in water bills for the San Francisco area. Any ideas? Bad soil, bad drainage, what could it be?


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## Fraust (Apr 4, 2021)

When you say you haven't put any fert on it with any real schedule... What does that mean? Have you put fertilizer down or not? When was the last time? What kind of fertilizer was it? How many times would you say you've put some down this year?

Also, stop watering everyday.


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## Rusty300 (May 20, 2021)

Okay - sorry. Here is what I have done this spring/summer
3/31/21 Ironite 4lbs applied base on 1lb per 1000 sf, I have approx 3,000 SF
3/31 - Scotts Turf Builder 32-0-4 2.5 lbs per 1000 sf
4/29/21 - MIlorganite - approx 25 lbs

I am watering 8 mins a day in the early morning M-F, not weekends.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

It's likely that the 8 min watering duration is part of the issue. Even if you had spray heads and a very small lawn with excellent coverage, it's doubtful that 8 min is likely to put down enough water.

What kind of sprinklers do you have?

Do you have a rain gauge or a container with perfectly straight sides and an even bottom? You can use that to measure the output. Most likely it'll take at least 15 min to put down 1/3 inch of water, even in the scenario above. With a moderate sized lawn and rotary sprinklers, you're probably looking at at least 30 min, if not more. Generally you wouldn't water less than 1/3 inch per session, as anything less is shallow. It might not be wetting the root zone sufficiently.

Most likely it's not getting enough water and that's contributing significantly to the issues you're seeing.


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## thin_concrete (Sep 11, 2020)

I agree with the above - 8 minutes isn't likely to do much for a newer lawn that doesn't have a solid root system yet. I've read that longer and more steady waterings are better than quick hits for new lawns. Also, get some good starter fert on it with a schedule and see what happens. Starter fertilizer has a higher phosphorous count than 0. Think 25-25-4 or 14-14-14.


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## BH Green (Apr 9, 2020)

You might also want to consider a soil test if you haven't had one. Your pH could be off and it might lack micronutrients.

And yes, increase your watering duration and decrease frequency to encourage deeper roots as others have said.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Pictures help


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

Rusty300 said:


> Okay - sorry. Here is what I have done this spring/summer
> 3/31/21 Ironite 4lbs applied base on 1lb per 1000 sf, I have approx 3,000 SF
> 3/31 - Scotts Turf Builder 32-0-4 2.5 lbs per 1000 sf
> 4/29/21 - MIlorganite - approx 25 lbs
> ...


Yeah, 40m of total water a week seems low. I'm closer to 2h/wk split across two cycles in the morning and that gets me around 1- maybe even a bit shy of it. Try 45m of watering, twice a week, skipping when it doesn't rain. That would be about double what you are doing now, and still probably a bit under the ideal amount but if you are trying to conserve and not use too much water may help improve what you are seeing.


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## Fraust (Apr 4, 2021)

Some pictures could help, but I feel like your watering schedule is likely at least partially to blame. As has been mentioned, 8 minutes likely isn't giving you much water. And by giving it such a small amount daily, you're barely keeping the top of your soil moist and likely keeping the roots very shallow. That combined with sunny hot temperatures you're likely getting in the SF area are going to have your grass struggling all season.


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## Rusty300 (May 20, 2021)

Awesome help and advice! THANK YOU. I will increase the duration of watering and change to three times a week. I may have to sell a kidney or one of our cars to pay for $1,000 a month water bills but at least the grass should be green.


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## Rusty300 (May 20, 2021)

Update - I've increased water timing on the schedule. I have six separate zones with 5-6 heads each. Now those will run 3 times a week at 20 mins each, so 120 mins of water each time, 360 mins per week (3 hours of water). Holy crap that will be a massive water bill. We have some of the highest water rates in the country. Thanks in advance for all your help and advice.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Try to setup a straight wall container (eg. empty tuna can), and measure how many inches of water the 20min gives you. Aim for something close to 0.5in each irrigation time.


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## Wolverine (Jan 17, 2018)

Dry turf or fungus? TTTF is fungus prone.


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## Lawndress (Jul 9, 2020)

Rusty300 said:


> Update - I've increased water timing on the schedule. I have six separate zones with 5-6 heads each. Now those will run 3 times a week at 20 mins each, so 120 mins of water each time, 360 mins per week (3 hours of water). Holy crap that will be a massive water bill. We have some of the highest water rates in the country. Thanks in advance for all your help and advice.


You can also run it for 3 min, shut it off for 5-10 min to let the water soak in better, and then run it again for the rest after once the soil has softened up a bit. Should take it better.

Hydretain is definitely worth it for you.

If you need to cut down, eliminate one of the watering periods rather than watering for shorter time. I personally hold to twice a week being better than 3x a week because you can water deeper.

I would have gone zoysia over the TTTF for the better appearance with lower water. If you aren't on a slab, you might be able get a gray water set up for irrigation. Or you could just burn it all down and flee the state before the zombies eat you. That works, too.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Please do measure the water output with a straight-sided, flat-bottomed container to make certain you're in the 0.3-0.6 inch range or so. Too little water and it won't hydrate sufficiently. Too much and you'll waste water or waterlog your soil.

In temps of 85-90, 3x per week is usually sufficient for most areas if you're putting down enough water.

You really do need at least 0.3 inch of water, bare minimum, in each irrigation session generally, though (in the absence of rain). Tracking rain with a rain gauge (if applicable; not sure if your'e getting rain this time of year) is also invaluable, because it allows you to just top off what nature provides.

Also, fert apps generally need to be watered with at least 0.2 inch.

Finally, watering during the day causes more evaporation, resulting in less of the water you put down getting to the roots (increasing the amount you have to use...so you'll want to avoid that by watering in early morning).


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## SnootchieBootchies (Mar 23, 2021)

Rusty300 said:


> Update - I've increased water timing on the schedule. I have six separate zones with 5-6 heads each. Now those will run 3 times a week at 20 mins each, so 120 mins of water each time, 360 mins per week (3 hours of water). Holy crap that will be a massive water bill. We have some of the highest water rates in the country. Thanks in advance for all your help and advice.


Does your water company also charge a sewer rate for the amount of water you use? I know that's the case one town over from me. You can have them come and put in a separate meter for your irrigation if so.


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## Rusty300 (May 20, 2021)

hi - I will have to check into that question. Thanks.


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## Rusty300 (May 20, 2021)

Hello,

I am now watering my 1-year-old fescue lawn 20 minutes per station 2x per week as instructed here. I have an $11,000 bid for new water lines to be installed to add several lines with heads in order to reduce the headcount to 3-4 per station down from the 6 I have now. Our water pressure is 40+ psf, which is really bad (so I have been told). The current heads appear to overlap as needed but the fescue is so dry in many areas. I will attach photos. I need to some professional help here on this forum as any sprinkler contractor or landscaper will tell me what I want to hear and then hopefully bid a big $$$ to help me! The soil is so hard in spots I can barely get a screwdriver in it by hand. Thanks.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

g-man said:


> Try to setup a straight wall container (eg. empty tuna can), and measure how many inches of water the 20min gives you. Aim for something close to 0.5in each irrigation time.


@Rusty300 Did you try to do this? I merged your new topic with the previous one.


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## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

That lawn looks thirsty as hell and if you're paying $300 a month to water it…. Yikes!

Folks above already provided the valuable information you need. Before you do anything you really do need to measure how much water you are putting out when you run your sprinklers. My popup sprayers need to run 35 minutes to dump .5" of water, my rotor heads need 90 minutes….

I purchased a 10 pack of these measuring cups ($12.99 at the time) to measure my zones.

https://www.amazon.com/Sprinkler-Bright-Outdoor-Water-Measuring/dp/B005C5OP8G/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=rain+gauge+measuring+cups&qid=1624473371&sprefix=rain+gauge+meas&sr=8-3


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## Rusty300 (May 20, 2021)

Good evening,

I have finally done the tuna can test as requested by everyone on here. In one zone 4/5 tuna cans had 1/4 inch in each and one can had 1 inch of water! I am going to test two more zones now. Thank you in advance for your help with my ineptitude.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

The previous issues (drought, cost) notwithstanding...

I will comment on the 40 psi. It's a little low, as you know. If you have rotor heads, they're designed for 45 psi optimally, so maybe ok (as long there aren't too many per zone). But multi-stream rotary nozzles are really the best type of sprinkler head for 40 psi from what I understand (like Hunter MP Rotators).


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

The previous issues (drought, cost) notwithstanding...

I will comment on the 40 psi. It's a little low, as you know. If you have rotor heads, they're designed for 45 psi optimally, so maybe ok (as long there aren't too many per zone). But multi-stream rotary nozzles are really the best type of sprinkler head for 40 psi from what I understand (like Hunter MP Rotators).


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Rusty300 said:


> Good evening,
> 
> I have finally done the tuna can test as requested by everyone on here. In one zone 4/5 tuna cans had 1/4 inch in each and one can had 1 inch of water! I am going to test two more zones now. Thank you in advance for your help with my ineptitude.


I think your next step is to draw your system and maybe we can guide in how to improve it. 1/4in to 1in is a big difference.

You can use Google earth view and markup the approximate head location, head type, etc. Or even just do it on paper with rough dimensions in feet.


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## jimmythegreek (Aug 7, 2020)

Ever thought about synthetic turf? 11k can buy you some really nice stuff amd no water bills, or switch grass types and use part of that 11k to overhaul the yard and amend the soil with premium stuff to reduce the water needed. I'd drill a well before I spent 300+ a month on irrigation water


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## Rusty300 (May 20, 2021)

interesting, I have a handful of the MP rotators that I bought when someone recommended the same. My last two landscape/sprinkler guys said that they hated MP heads. With our astronomically high water bills I would have to keep them on for 40 minutes each I bet. I am willing to try anything though. I just ran another zone and 3/5 tuna cans were maybe .03 inch of water and two were at a full 1 inch. AND THE AREAS with the 1 inch are still ugly brown.


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## Rusty300 (May 20, 2021)

As for the well idea, my friend had a quote for $4,000 for a well in their yard if you could land a permit to do so.


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## Rusty300 (May 20, 2021)

Hello - I've run all the tests with my new tuna cans. Most of the cans come in at .03 after 20 mins and a few come closer to 1 inch! SO my system is very unbalanced. I need to get a whole map of the lawn done I guess.


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## Overtaxed (May 9, 2021)

Rusty300 said:


> Hello - I've run all the tests with my new tuna cans. Most of the cans come in at .03 after 20 mins and a few come closer to 1 inch! SO my system is very unbalanced. I need to get a whole map of the lawn done I guess.


You may just need better heads. Some of the ones that have "rain curtain" sprays might help, those put down a more even spray across everything they reach.


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## Rusty300 (May 20, 2021)

I had a sprinkler "expert" out today, had to wait 4 weeks for him to fit me into his schedule. He wants to switch all my heads to a rotor (Hunter commercial rotor head). If he does that, he will eliminate 5-6 heads in the 3,000 sf of grass but still have the coverage and overlap needed. That means each zone will have 3-4 heads, not 5-6 heads like now. He also suggested a pump to increase pressure from the 35 psi I have now. Does anyone have some thoughts? Thanks.


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## Parb (Jul 14, 2021)

Rusty300 said:


> As for the well idea, my friend had a quote for $4,000 for a well in their yard if you could land a permit to do so.


I see you are in the sf bay area. Any chance you could pm me the details of the company doing the drilling?
I can get a permit for a well in my property but the quote I got was way high(significantly over $50k).
I'm looking for a more reasonable priced well driller. Need a 150ft well.

My sf bay area water bill sits between $600 and $1,000 per month. I'm intentionally letting my lawn become brownish to keep my water bill from going away over $1,000 per month. 1 acre property. About 1/3rd of it is lawns. I love my lawn but the water bill in the summer is prohibitive.


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