# Alex1389's Lawn Journal



## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

Going to give this a shot. I've kept a partial journal on Evernote throughout the season, but I've missed a few things so I'm working from memory on some of these items:

4/1/2018 -- Ringer Lawn Restore .75 #/k N (Really regret doing this) 
4/10/2018 -- Lesco Starter Fert .75 #/k N. Fast Acting Lime. 
Sometime between these dates -- Landscapers applied Dimension 0-0-7
4/29/2018 -- RGS/Air8/Greene Effect Cocktail 
5/18/2018 -- .5 #/K Milorganite. Fast Acting Lime. Spectracide insecticide. 
6/9/2018 -- Scotts Starter Fert w/ Mesotrione on backyard. .75 #/K N 
6/14/2018 -- Landscapers applied 19-0-0 Lesco + Dimension to front and side yards 
7/2/2018 -- .5 N/K Milorganite. Curative rate Disease Ex back yard/Preventative Rate side/front yards. 3 #/K Ironite. 6 #/K Fast Acting Lime Back and Side Yards. 12 #/K Fast Acting Lime front yard.
8/17/2018 -- 1 #/M SOP 
8/21/2018 -- 4oz rate Tenacity blanket spray; 2 oz/M Propiconazole 
8/23/18 -- .5 N/M 46-0-0 
8/26/18 -- Prodiamine at .4 oz/M

2019

4/6/19 -- .25lb ai/ac of Dimension
4/10/19 -- .80lb N/M 18-24-12 Starter Fert 
4/30/19 - 1 oz/K PPZ, 1 oz/K Feature, .5 oz/K T-Nex
5/11/19 - .5 N/M Carbon-X

Problem Areas:

Backyard -- The backyard actually appears to be the best part of my property; however, it has zoysia mixed in there so it needs a reno. I'm not sure how the zoysia got in there, as I purchased the place two years ago and it's always been a problem. Zoysia looks great in the summer, but I'm not fond of the early fall dormancy and late spring green-up. I hit the backyard with Mesotrione instead of Dimension in hopes that the Dimension wouldn't be there to hinder my reno efforts.

Street Parkway -- I've included some pictures below of a grass I'm dealing with there. Would appreciate any help in identifying the grass. The grass seems to have spread underneath the sidewalk to the other side as well. Tenacity lit this grass up when I sprayed in the spring, but it didn't kill it off. To be fair, I only sprayed it once because it was such a large area that was highlighted, and I didn't want to try to oversee with the summer temps looming.

General Area -- I seem to have many areas throughout the lawn that have a very fine, thick grass that has matted down in some spots and just dried out in others. I think it's a fine fescue, but I'll post a pic for some confirmation. These areas were all great in the spring, but the summer heat is really exposing them now.

I'm 99% certain that I'll completely renovate the backyard this August. I have the Round-Up on hand and planned on starting the kill on 7/6/18 with a seed down date of 8/4/18. I'm a little torn on the mix of seed I'll use, but I'm thinking a KBG/PRG or KBG/TTTF 80/20 mix. I've followed a few threads on renos here in Jersey with the TTTF blend and they turned out awesome! I'd appreciate any input here on the seed choice and seed source . . .

Ultimately, my goal is to have KBG be the dominant grass throughout the yard. I'm trying my luck here with the backyard reno and then will consider a front/side yard reno next year.

Some additional info:

I've had Soil Savvy tests done, but I haven't had a chance to have another lab that's recommended here perform an analysis. I'm also irrigated so I do plan on applying Milo (likely on 7/4). Pictures below:

Front Yard 5/23/18:



Side Yard 5/23/18:



Backyard 5/23/18:



Backyard 6/18/18:


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

Parkway Problem Grass:


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

Some more pics that I snapped today after a fresh morning mow.

Front yard 6/18/18:



Backyard 6/18/18:



Side yard 6/18/18:



You can see some of the heat stress on that front lawn. I have several patches of what appears to be fine fescue in there that are drying out.

I also began using Round-Up around the stone retaining walls to add some beds to the property. Just too annoying to try to weed whack the lawn around those stones . . .


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Alex, welcome. I saw your post about the problem area but I did not have time to reply. It looks like quackgrass. We will need more pictures in focus of the auricle. If it is, round up is the most effective way around it.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

Hey @g-man, thanks for offering to help! I've attached a few close up pics. Let me know if these work. Thanks!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I don't see clasping auricles and I see a large ligule, so it might be orchardgrass.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

@g-man Yeah I had my doubts about quackgrass, but Orchardgrass might be on the money. Tenacity did bleach it early in the spring, but I never followed up with a second application. I'll try Tenacity again soon.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Hmm, i think you should carefully paint it with round up. I don't think tenacity will kill it.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

g-man said:


> Hmm, i think you should carefully paint it with round up. I don't think tenacity will kill it.


Thanks again, @g-man. I guess I could use this as an excuse to do a mini-renovation on the parkway this fall 

I'm also finding a few areas around my lawn that just seem to brown off a bit more easily than other areas. I've attached a few photos. My initial thoughts were that these are just creeping fescue patches. They seem to mat down instead of being sucked up into the mower as well, so these patches make for an overall bad look. Any idea what the below could be?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It does look like a fine fescue. In my opinion, fine fescue should not be in full sun areas.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

@g-man, thanks again for your continued help! Really appreciate you taking the time here!

I bought the house in 2016 and was swamped with remodeling the interior that I didn't really start caring about the lawn until late last year. I'm sure the previous owners used sun & shade mixes during overseeding. I'm not sure how the fine fescues were able to compete so well against the PRG and KBG in those full sun areas, but it's something I have to deal with unfortunately. I've overseeded only with PRG for the past two years.

Any chance of getting the KBG to spread and choke out the fescue over the next several years, or is a reno on the front yard my only option here?


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

Finally got around to having a soil test done. Here are the results.

Guess I need a bit of advice from you guys here on whether I'm good to go with a renovation based on these results, or if I should wait another year and work on the soil deficiencies. I need to start nuking the zoysia ASAP if I'm going to reno in August...

The area I would renovate is the "back lawn" on the reports.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I saw that the guys already addressed your soil results. You have a good soil and nothing there prevents from having a great lawn. :thumbup:


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

g-man said:


> I saw that the guys already addressed your soil results. You have a good soil and nothing there prevents from having a great lawn. :thumbup:


Yep! All good, @g-man. Thanks for your help!

Now I just need to make a decision on whether or not I move forward with this reno :thumbup:


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

Need some advice here. I need to put down prodiamine, Tenacity, and maybe some propiconazole. Propiconazole I would spray pretty soon to help with lingering fungus pressure. Am I able to tank mix that with Tenacity?

I'm thinking of blanket spraying tenacity in order to kill off some fine fescue in the sunny areas. Saw a thread where @ken-n-nancy was planning on doing the same. Problem is I have some PRG in the same areas and it looks like FF and PRG are both limited to the 5oz per acre rate. If I use that rate, do you guys think any FF will be killed off? I do want to blanket spray for weed control as well, so it wouldn't be a complete waste of time. But the ultimate goal is to kill off some FF as well. Think I can get away with going slightly higher on the rate with minimal impact to the PRG?

Lastly, should I apply prodiamine after I've applied Tenacity or should I just hold off on that since Tenacity will give me some pre-m protection?


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

So I think I screwed up my Prodiamine application. I applied at the .4 oz/M rate for 5-months of coverage through the winter and into early next spring. However, it looks like that puts me dangerously close to the annual limit of .55 oz/M for my NoMix (yes, FF is lower rate but I could care less about my FF).

For those of you using Prodiamine, how do you get your 12-month coverage against the annual limits? Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't seem possible with the rates they've listed on the label vs the # of months of protection.


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## Mozart (Jul 17, 2018)

Alex1389 said:


> Any chance of getting the KBG to spread and choke out the fescue over the next several years, or is a reno on the front yard my only option here?


I'm not sure if this is a valid strategy but I am also looking to thin out fine fescue and let KBG take over as much as possible without a full renovation.

I plan to blanket spray the fine fescue area with tenacity, not sure what rate yet but possibly at the 6oz/acre rate. If I understand correctly this rate is within the tolerance limit for KBG but well above the maximum per year application for fine fescue.

Once the FF turns white I plan to basically "dethatch" the FF out and hope that resulting bare soil areas would fill in naturally with KBG. @g-man, what do you think? Would that work? (Manipulating environment/culture to favor KBG over FF)


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

Mozart said:


> Alex1389 said:
> 
> 
> > Any chance of getting the KBG to spread and choke out the fescue over the next several years, or is a reno on the front yard my only option here?
> ...


When I blanket sprayed Tenacity last week, I double lapped the area last that were thick FF. It bleached them for sure and some of those areas look to be smoked. I think the Tenacity strategy might actually work.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Alex1389 said:


> So I think I screwed up my Prodiamine application. I applied at the .4 oz/M rate for 5-months of coverage through the winter and into early next spring. However, it looks like that puts me dangerously close to the annual limit of .55 oz/M for my NoMix (yes, FF is lower rate but I could care less about my FF).
> 
> For those of you using Prodiamine, how do you get your 12-month coverage against the annual limits? Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't seem possible with the rates they've listed on the label vs the # of months of protection.


I dont need 12 months coverage since we get snow from December to February.

Option 1:
Spring application at 1lb /acre = 0.65lb ai/acre= .36oz/M. This yields 5 months of control (March - July)
Early fall at 0.5lb / acre = 0.32lb ai/acre = 0.185oz/M This is 3 months of control (August, Sept, Oct)
Total = 1.5lb/acre = 0.97lb ai/acre = 0.54oz / M

Option 2:
3 applications at 0.5lb / acre = 0.32lb ai/acre = 0.185oz/M each. In March, mid May, mid August

Option 3 (my preferrence):
Spring application at 0.5lb / acre = 0.32lb ai/acre = 0.185oz/M (March- May)
Supplement with dithopyor in May (for crabgrass control)
Early fall at 1lb /acre = 0.65lb ai/acre= .36oz/M This is 5 months of control (August - Dec)

There are other approaches (ie. use tenacity in august for overseed and then do 0.5lb/acre ). It will depend on how much crabgrass or poa a problems you had in the past. I could kill crabgrass a lot easier than poa a. Once your weeds are under control for a year, then the rates could be reduced since there are less seeds available.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

@g-man Thanks for the different options -- very helpful!

I noticed you listed ai/acre in your reply. I applied .4 ounces of product/M, which I think would come out to .26 ai/M. The product label does state to only apply .55 oz of product/M. I imagine I should discard the ai/M calculation here?

Given my blunder, I think it's best that I pick up in April with Dithiopyr at this point instead of Prodiamine. I do want to Reno eventually, so hopefully a Dithiopyr application in April gets me through to June/July before I start rounding up. If I don't Reno, I can apply a second Dithiopyr application in June.

My desire for 12-months of pre-m control stems from my understanding that poa annua can germinate in late winter/early spring if the soil temperatures are right. Does that sound accurate or am I overthinking this? Maybe I'm overthinking this and could just deal with the few stragglers of poa that germinate during the right temps in winter...


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

I think I'm at the awkward moment where my renovation area looks better than the established lawn. 

Did a mini-redo on the parkway (right side of the sidewalk) to 1) get some practice on the Reno front and 2) to test out the SS1100 seed blend from SSS. Overall I'm pretty pleased with the results and look forward to expanding this to other areas of my yard next fall. It still needs to spread a ton to completely fill in, but I'd say about 80% of the area is covered right now. If I could do things different, I think I'd start earlier in August next year to allow for more time to spread in September and October.

Questions:

1) Should I bother with the second application of Tenacity at this point? I sprayed Tenacity at seed down on 8/26, and weed pressure has been incredibly minimal. I think I got a really good kill on everything with Glypho ahead of the renovation.

2) How should I adjust the watering at this point? Should I move to daily watering? Every other day? I've been watering 3 times per day at 5 minutes up to this point.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would only do tenacity if you agree weed pressure.

Adjust your watering to increase duration and decrease frequency.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

Backyard:



Side Yard:



Front Yard:



Wanted to post a few pics to document my results this growing season. I'm wrapping up the fall nitrogen blitz this week, so I figured this would be a good point to stop and see the results. The first pictures are from 5/23. The second set of pics are from 10/13. Note the front yard had a pic in the middle of July also because I think that's the best my lawn has ever looked. 

I've noticed the lawn is definitely thicker from the blitz. Note that the lawn really thinned out in August/September because of all the rain we had. The backyard is a complete soggy mess. I'm having quotes put together for French drains at this point. If the prices are too outrageous, I'll just rent a trencher and do this myself.

I'm still not thrilled about the overall color. I'm wondering if it's too late to start the FAS regimen?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It is not late for fas.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

g-man said:


> It is not late for fas.


How late do you usually go with your FAS apps? Well beyond your urea apps I'm sure?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Mid November is fine. It is just for color if you want it. Be careful with over doing it since the grass has slow down.

I looked back at your soil test. You have plenty of iron and a pH just shy of 7. It should be ok, but the heavy rain does cause some issues.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

@g-man, yeah, I think the rain is throwing things out of whack. Interestingly enough, the side and back yards have better color. Wondering if the slope of the front yard leads to more leaching of nutrients?

I looked through the FAS thread. What's a decent rate of FS to start with at this point in the season without risking negative effects (black lawn)? Think 3oz is safe? I'd adjust the AS accordingly.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Depends on the % of iron in the product you use. 6, 10 or 20%. For the 10%, 3oz/M would be fine.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

@g-man Looks like the iron recommended in the FAS thread is 20% FE. I saw you were using 3oz/M on Feature, which is 10% iron. I'd assume I need to go lower with that 20% FE source to be on the safe side.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

For the 20%, it will need half the rate of the 10%.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

Got some leaf mulching in today. Here's how that worked out:

Backyard:





After 1st Pass:





After 2nd Pass:





Side Yard:



After 1st Pass:



After 2nd Pass:



As you can see, the side yard was absolutely loaded with leaves when I started. In between the 1st pass and 2nd pass, I blew the remaining leaves onto the lawn from the sidewalk.

I'm not crazy about my TimeMaster, but I will say it mulches leaves very well.


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## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

The yard is looking great! That's a really good before after of mulching leaves as well. They looked dry when you mulched them, so that probably helped, too, right?


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

Thanks, @samjonester! I mowed the back in the morning, and it was still pretty wet from yesterday's rains. I mowed the side (and front) in the afternoon, and those leaves were pretty dry. I'm not sure I would have been able to mulch that volume of leaves if they were wet.


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## mribbens (Jul 13, 2018)

That looks great, I would agree that it mulches leaves very well too, and I will be trying those blades next year. What was your HOC for this one? What did the underside of your deck look like after this cut? I am completely renovating my underside this winter, I need to start over and figure out a non-stick spray.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

@mribbens Thanks! I was running a staggered cutting height -- 2.25" front, 2.75" back.

One of my main complaints with the TimeMaster is how much grass cakes up underneath the deck. The leaves seem to keep the deck very clear though minus some dirt build up. Quick rinse and that it was gone, and it didn't seem to affect performance.

I was actually most impressed with the first pass results. I'm not sure running the second pass is necessary when more leaves will drop before night fall anyway. Second passes are probably only necessary on the last cut of the season and when there is huge leaf buildup.

I'm curious to see what you do with the underside of your deck to alleviate the buildup issues. If the grass is even the slightest bit wet, it makes me hate this machine. Dry grass and this thing is a beast though.


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## mribbens (Jul 13, 2018)

Alex1389 said:


> @mribbens Thanks! I was running a staggered cutting height -- 2.25" front, 2.75" back.
> 
> One of my main complaints with the TimeMaster is how much grass cakes up underneath the deck. The leaves seem to keep the deck very clear though minus some dirt build up. Quick rinse and that it was gone, and it didn't seem to affect performance.
> 
> ...


That setting, E front and D in the back is very good for my lawn, around 2.5 HOC, very nice. I have lowered to even F front and E in the back to give me a 2" cut, when I have needed to do that.

The plan this winter for the underside is to sand down to bare metal, prime, then Toro Red paint. From there I will need to apply a clear non-stick spray that will keep things moving, still doing research on this. I will document this on the this board as I feel there are many TM owners who have the same struggles.

I completely agree with you on the build-up underneath, it turns a quick mow into 45 mins with the scraping and cleaning prior and after, not ideal. Side discharge in good conditions, agree again, this is a monster machine. Not sure how this year was for you, I was not cutting in ideal conditions very often. My area had record rain in May and June, crazy wet heat in July, then dry conditions for 3 weeks followed by more record rain, I feel as though I can count on both hands only the amount of picture perfect days we have had since May, just crazy.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Ryan Knorr loves to side discharge with his Timemaster, because of the caking issue. Check him out on YouTube. If you have enough time to double cut on heavy growth/wet turf, you could put the mulch plug back in for the second pass, for a cleaner cut.

I'm thinking of doing that with my 21" Snapper next year. I had to bag and dump into my compost pile a lot more this year than I would prefer, due to weather conditions.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

I've been saying I'll be renovating for a couple years now, but this year it's looking more and more likely. I'm tackling the drainage issues in the back (it's surprisingly dry back there as I type this), and with the re-grading I'll have done it just makes sense to finally start over. I'll keep this lawn journal for this year then start a new one for the Reno.

Rented a backpack blower from Home Depot and blew out all of the winter debris. Then started cutting in some edges. I still have about 200' of edging to do with the below done. Last year I had trouble keeping mulch in the beds because the landscapers I hired to mulch didn't dig a deep enough trench. I went about 6" deep where I could just to ensure the mulch stays put this year.





Current state of the lawn:





Front flower beds will be redone this year. Removing the Belgium block in favor of natural edges, grading the soil away from the house, then I'll slowly add shrubs/bushes/trees.

Backyard will also have a fair amount of work done. All downspouts will be trenched out to the street, as I feel they're causing my water issue. The mulch beds near the rock walls will be trenched out and replaced with river rock that will also drain to the street. With proper grading, I'm hoping the water will flow to the river rock and then to the street from there.

On the left side near the house I plan on adding a bed from the steps to the patio. Then I'll also add in some sort of walkway to the patio from that current paver walkway. I'm thinking 1" river rock base with bluestone laid in there. Then another bed to flank the outside of the walkway.

Going to be a long (expensive) year!


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

4/6/19 -- .24lb ai/ac of Dimension

Finally got to addressing some backyard drainage issues. Crossing my fingers that nothing more will be needed here, but we've have about .75" of rain in the past week and it's been dry.

Routed all of the rear gutter downspouts to the street. Also trenched and installed river rock against the retaining wall. The plan is for water to follow the grade of the yard to the wall, down the river rock to a catch basic, then to the street. I had a walkway installed from the back door to the patio as well. Now it's time to repair/move a bunch of sprinkler heads.

Also had the crew rip out most of the front plantings and Belgium block and re-graded those beds for improved drainage. Get to start fresh in the front with some plans I had drawn up a year ago. Work in progress!


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## mribbens (Jul 13, 2018)

Following this, lawn looks to be healthy at this point, I am just about to put down pre M at my place. I also am about done with my TimeMaster mow deck rehab, will post soon.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

Crazy week. Got my first mow in. Almost done with planting in the front beds. Moved about 10 yards of mulch.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

Last two days of activity.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

New landscaping looks even better with a fresh cut. Grass is growing like crazy. Need to try to get PGR down tomorrow.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

I've come to the realization that this is about as good as it will get for this NoMix. This is about a week post Carbon-X. It also got hit with a healthy dose of Feature. My next Dimension app is due next weekend, but I think I'll forego Dimension and get ready for the Reno at this point.

Side note - I'm loving the even color and growth of the parkway I renovated last fall (left side of last pic).


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

That moment when you decide to kill a beautiful lawn.


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

g-man said:


> That moment when you decide to kill a beautiful lawn.


Can't wait to see what the neighbors think...


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