# Bermuda dethatching and the How to with Doc video



## ministerman (Jun 9, 2021)

Recently on a "How to with Doc" lawn care video, he said under no circumstance should you dethatch or scarify bermuda grass.

Many in this forum suggest it. I bought a SunJoe because my grass looked like poop and had a lot of thatch.

Am I going to screw it up??

Here's a link to the video --


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## BermudaBoy (Jun 27, 2019)

He also said that the Fiskars manual reel mower was the best real mower in the world. And he also said that last year he was only going to use cheap organic chicken feed for fertilizer despite throwing down Humichar and PGF Balance every chance he got. At the end of the days he's a salesman so you gotta take his word with a grain of salt. He's right up there with car salesmen.

With that said, I get what he's saying about detaching. If you cut your lawn low and often and scalp every spring there is no reason that you should have any thatch build up. If you keep your lawn at 2 inches and mow every two weeks and leave your clippings on the lawn detaching might be a good idea from time to time.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

You forgot about saying Dirt Booster in every video for the last 2 months.


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## ministerman (Jun 9, 2021)

BermudaBoy said:


> With that said, I get what he's saying about detaching. If you cut your lawn low and often and scalp every spring there is no reason that you should have any thatch build up. If you keep your lawn at 2 inches and mow every two weeks and leave your clippings on the lawn detaching might be a good idea from time to time.


Well -- that would be me. I live in HOA that requires bermuda. I don't want to cut every 4 days or less. I can get to it maybe once every 7-10 days. I still want it to look nice, and it has a pretty bad layer of thatch on it. That's why I bought the SunJoe.

So you're saying it'll be okay?


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## Never Winter Farms (Jun 10, 2021)

Doc is a joke. His advice flaps in the wind like a flag.


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

You certainly want to dethatch, very healthy for the lawn. I don't understand why so many hate Doc, his lawn is better looking than most. He is just a quirky old man and yes, some of his methods are off, but he has helped so many.

At any rate, dethatch away. The sunjoe is actually a great dethatcher. Just make sure you get a 12 gauge extension cord so it doesn't shut off on ya while working.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

@ministerman Instead of a dethatch, use the rigid blade cartridge. It is better for the bermuda and will still pull out TONS of debris. We are all human and no one is perfect, but with Doc I have found that out of 10 statements you will get 1 that is helpful. With some of the other YouTubers you will get 1 statement that is not helpful out of 10. I'm very wary of anyone who is pushing a specific product. I find all of them entertaining at some level and I understand that they all need to make a living in order to continue providing content, but I'd rather buy a hat or t-shirt than some super expensive fertilizer that is no better than what I could buy at my local Lowes, Site One, or DoMyOwn.


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## BermudaBoy (Jun 27, 2019)

ministerman said:


> BermudaBoy said:
> 
> 
> > With that said, I get what he's saying about detaching. If you cut your lawn low and often and scalp every spring there is no reason that you should have any thatch build up. If you keep your lawn at 2 inches and mow every two weeks and leave your clippings on the lawn detaching might be a good idea from time to time.
> ...


Back when I had a service manage my lawn my backyard was kept at around 2.5 inches and of course the clippings stayed on my lawn. After finding out about dethatching I bough the Greenworks model and detached my yard. It did pull a ton of material from my lawn but it also pulled up a great deal of healthy grass. It did a great job at thinning out my lawn when I only wanted to remove the debris.

If you choose to dethatch do like @Redtwin said and use the verticutting attachment. I'd also do it at a time when it won't stress your lawn too much, perhaps when you have decent temps and some rainfall in the forecast to aid in recovery.


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## Slim 1938 (Aug 24, 2019)

My lawn is 8 years old and I've never dethatched it. The first 6 years I never bagged either. I always had a mulching kit on my tractor. Now I reel mow and bag the clippings if I let it get too long and my yard looks great. I'm not against it just saying I don't think it's a have to kind of thing.


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## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

Hahaha. I agree with @Austinite. Take it easy on the 'ol boy .You all love to destroy Doc on here while at the same time apparently watching his videos religiously. :lol: And his lawn is pretty darn nice. For context, I have a relative that faithfully watches a news personality because "everything he says is true". LOL. Well if that ain't a red flag! Of course people give you false information. Because they're people. Even @Greendoc isn't perfect.....

Right? 

I do feel like dethatching for Bermuda is overhyped. It's almost a common sense thing for me, in my experience. As mentioned, if you have high Bermuda and cut infrequently, MAYBE it's a good idea every once in a great while. Cutting properly renders it unnecessary. Even when I can't cut it often (like this year), I never seem to have more than about a 1/4" or less of thatch.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I know the terms verticutting and dethatching are used interchangeably here but actual verticutting with fixed blades is very beneficial to Bermuda especially if you reel mow. After a few years of not doing it, you will get a mat of stolons on top of the soil which will cause your mower to float and for grain to develop which will cause scalping issues. It also help when scalping as it thins out the grass and allows you to go lower with your reel.

The lower you mow, the more important it is to verticut the lawn as it creates a better environment for the grass to grow. The higher you mow the less important it is as the stolons won't affect the grass growth as much.

As for Doc, he's a charlatan/politician/used car salesman or take your pick. He tells lies and half truths and sprinkles a little bit of truth in there to get you to believe him. Sure, his lawn looks great (when he shows it), but it's usually in the morning with dew on it and he pays his employees to mow it for him everyday or two. Which most of us don't have the luxury of. I'm willing to bet that there is a lot more going on behind the scenes that you don't see(just like in DC). Don't get me wrong, if you buy his stuff and use it your lawn will look good but when you go from doing nothing on your lawn to doing something of course you are going to see improvements.


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## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> I know the terms verticutting and dethatching are used interchangeably here but actual verticutting with fixed blades is very beneficial to Bermuda especially if you reel mow. After a few years of not doing it, you will get a mat of stolons on top of the soil which will cause your mower to float and for grain to develop which will cause scalping issues. It also help when scalping as it thins out the grass and allows you to go lower with your reel.
> 
> The lower you mow, the more important it is to verticut the lawn as it creates a better environment for the grass to grow. The higher you mow the less important it is as the stolons won't affect the grass growth as much.
> 
> As for Doc, he's a charlatan/politician/used car salesman or take your pick. He tells lies and half truths and sprinkles a little bit of truth in there to get you to believe him. Sure, his lawn looks great (when he shows it), but it's usually in the morning with dew on it and he pays his employees to mow it for him everyday or two. Which most of us don't have the luxury of. I'm willing to bet that there is a lot more going on behind the scenes that you don't see(just like in DC). Don't get me wrong, if you buy his stuff and use it your lawn will look good but when you go from doing nothing on your lawn to doing something of course you are going to see improvements.


 Yes, next year I'm going to try to verticut my Yukon and see what happens. I'm gathering positive info on it :thumbup:

LOL, nice assessment of Doc there @Mightyquinn. I dunno.. maybe as we age a little we realize some folks aren't worth wasting energy on. His first videos started me on my Bermuda care journey, as they were more basic and less "care-salesman", like- Mow low and often, use pre-emergent, push growth in the Spring, bla bla. But he is who is he is. I figure I'd stop calling an oak post wooden and just move on .


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## Austinite (Oct 4, 2018)

For me it's more about this forum than it is about an individual. I just think it's inappropriate the way we sometimes go about expressing the Doc hate (or anyone else for that matter) For all we know he could be a silent member here. But regardless, not here to change anyone's mind, just saying this would be a better forum if we expressed opinions without the name-calling. Afterall, That's just one of many reasons why we moved away from other forums such as ATY.

There's also a really good chance many of his followers found this forum from searching google for various things. I would hate to deter anyone from the joining because they see negative commentary regarding someone they follow. Just my 2 cents and I'll leave the topic alone


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

He is a salesman. He'd be better off amongst this group perhaps IF he was transparent e.g. ' this video is sponsored by dolphin equipment'.

I still have to laugh ....saying the trucut was suddenly physically exhausting on his flat yard


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

@Mightyquinn Just curious as to why Bermuda does look noticeably better in the morning...I often wonder the same thing but didn't know if its because it not dried out as much compared to in the evening or etc....but it does look noticeably better!


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

I think it has to do with the dew on the grass and the angle of the sun. It looks similar in the late evening too just before the sun goes down.


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## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

ENC_Lawn said:


> @Mightyquinn Just curious as to why Bermuda does look noticeably better in the morning...I often wonder the same thing but didn't know if its because it not dried out as much compared to in the evening or etc....but it does look noticeably better!





Mightyquinn said:


> I think it has to do with the dew on the grass and the angle of the sun. It looks similar in the late evening too just before the sun goes down.


Yeah it's really a crazy difference sometimes. Dew adds to the effect, yes, but I think higher sun angles simply show more of the stems under the leaf blades, thus giving it a more dull/uneven look. In the morning/evening the stems are shaded and much less noticeable.

Anyway, my goofy theory


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> I think it has to do with the dew on the grass and the angle of the sun. It looks similar in the late evening too just before the sun goes down.


@Mightyquinn :thumbup: ...Hey I sent you a PM...not sure if I did it correctly (and if your busy no worries  ) with a question about TifGrand!


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

ENC_Lawn said:


> Mightyquinn said:
> 
> 
> > I think it has to do with the dew on the grass and the angle of the sun. It looks similar in the late evening too just before the sun goes down.
> ...


I did not get one yet


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

Mightyquinn said:


> ENC_Lawn said:
> 
> 
> > Mightyquinn said:
> ...


@Mightyquinn PM sent...hopefully that worked this time...thanks!  :thumbup:


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## LoCutt (Jul 29, 2019)

I'm with @Mightyquinn on this one. For Bermuda to be vigorous, it has to have room for the stolons to grow. Regardless of your HOC (assuming you're fertilizing/taking care), the thatch will rise to meet you eventually. The lower your HOC, the sooner this happens. The thatch promotes fungus growth, interferes with nutrient absorption, and isn't green. For the highest quality lawn, you've got to do what golf courses do, but not as often.


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## ministerman (Jun 9, 2021)

Thanks everyone -- I didn't know Doc was disliked so much!

We've been inundated with rain the past week or so, and I haven't had a chance to cut our bermuda in about 9 days. I finally got out to cut it this evening (at least the front yard ) but I had to cut it much longer than usual because it had gotten so tall. I cut it because there's more rain in the forecast tomorrow and Thursday...sigh. Don't know when I'll get to the back yard.

So if i'm hearing everyone correctly - use the scarifying blade, not the dethatching attachment, but how low should I set it?

To my knowledge the yard hasn't be aerated in years, if ever. I did do a liquid aeration earlier this year, but I'm not sure it did much. With the thick clay we have, I really feel like moisture isn't soaking into the yard very well.


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## Phids (Sep 24, 2020)

I may be one of the few people here who likes Doc, but....can anyone address what Doc said on the actual merits of the issue? His argument is that lawns that grow via runners (stolons) will be damaged through dethatching. At the same time, he also argues that Bermuda lawns shouldn't need to be dethatched if they're being cut often enough.

I don't think he specified how dethatching hurts lawns that grow through stolons, but my guess is that it yanks up too much healthy grass out of the ground when the tines catch the runners, causing problems.

Anyone know if this is true?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

To me he's very arrogant and condescending and he's no expert and is no better than anyone else. If you have watched him long enough you will see that he's always contradicting himself depending on what product he's pushing or views he's trying to get. Not sure if the videos are still out there but he's a salesman through and through as he has "inventions" he has tried to sell, I think it was called a Hog mat or something like that.

As for the whole dethatching thing, it only does temporary damage to the grass and actually makes it thicker and healthier. As you cut the stolons it creates new growing points where it was cut causing the Bermuda to grow in thicker. I've had Bermuda grow in so thick it was almost chocking itself out and verticutting it helped thin it out and it healed itself in about 2-3 weeks.

I agree there is a difference between verticutting and dethatching and verticutting is the way to go with Bermuda as the blades will do more good than the spring tines. If you ever do verticut, you will be amazed at all the dead material it will pull out of the lawn. The more you beat up Bermuda the better it responds.


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## rotolow (May 13, 2020)

Phids said:


> I may be one of the few people here who likes Doc, but....can anyone address what Doc said on the actual merits of the issue?


Verticut (blades) good. Dethacthing (tines) not real good.

That's my take away from the folks here. I say "not real good" because bermuda is such an alpha grass that any damage you might do to it will quickly repair. The idea, I think, with verticuting is we slice those runners, pushing the ends down into the ground and they product new "mother" plants that produce additional runners. Dethatching tines pull those runners up away from the soil and you get less benefit from the whole process.

Both methods extract dead plant material that you can then remove to thin the layer beneath the canopy. I think verticuting just has more cultural benefits than tine dethatching.


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## adidasUNT8 (Jul 23, 2020)

Mightyquinn said:


> I know the terms verticutting and dethatching are used interchangeably here but actual verticutting with fixed blades is very beneficial to Bermuda especially if you reel mow. After a few years of not doing it, you will get a mat of stolons on top of the soil which will cause your mower to float and for grain to develop which will cause scalping issues. It also help when scalping as it thins out the grass and allows you to go lower with your reel.
> 
> The lower you mow, the more important it is to verticut the lawn as it creates a better environment for the grass to grow. The higher you mow the less important it is as the stolons won't affect the grass growth as much.


MQ, thanks for the info. I maintain at .5 and I think I'm having some of the issues you've addressed here. My Sun Joe scarifier will be here in the next couple of days. As far as the process, would it look like this:

1) scalping 
2) scarifying
3) clean up debris
4) scalping again to clean up

2nd note, I'm about to start 3rd round of PGR. Assuming there is no ill affect with doing this process under regulation?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

You could verticut first which may make the scalping easier it just depends on the condition of your grass. With your lawn being in regulation, it shouldn't hurt anything.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

I just want to clarify my post as I've only been a member here for less than a week.

1. I didn't realize Doc hate was even a thing, let alone as part of this forum.
2. My comment was basically pointing out the fact Doc and many other Youtube "lawn stars" are salesman. It's where the money is in being a "youtube Influencer".
3. Not just Doc, but I would take every piece of information I see or hear on youtube with a grain of salt. I tend to be a person who prefers to hear or read things from at least 2 totally unrelated places before I'll begin to accept it as truth.

In relation to the topic of the video itself and this post, Doc himself said in the video something to the affect of, "If you're the type of person who lets your grass get overgrown or cuts every 10 or so days, you may need a dethatch once in a while." He also went on to say you shouldn't need to though if you "take care of your lawn properly" ie have the time/means/ability/resources/employees to ensure your lawn gets cut everyday or every other day. Then he went into his sales pitches.


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

@ministerman , as some others have already pointed out, you will not "screw it up" by dethatching your lawn, with either the dethatching or scarifying attachments on you SunJoe. Like so many other circumstances/questions in lawn care, the answer to whether or not you need to dethatch your lawn is - it depends. From what you have described; having Bermuda cut once every 7-10 days, having a Honda push mower, meaning your height of cut is more than likely on the taller end of the scale, having grass that "looks like poop" and "has a lot of thatch", it sounds like your lawn would greatly benefit from it. There will be some turf damage during the process, but keep up good feeding and watering practices and your lawn will be all the better for it in a couple of weeks. Many others have shared their experiences here during this process which are easy enough to reference and see their results. If you are still concerned, watch  this video  on the cultural practices of some true turf professionals. Granted, Celebration Bermuda requires more cultural practices than other Bermuda varieties to be at this level, but this should put you at ease with the fact that you can absolutely beat on Bermuda and it will come through.

The answer to your question is most definitely not "under no circumstances should you dethatch or scarify Bermuda grass." Statements and claims like this are why you might see what some like to call "Doc hate." He just puts out content so often that is ....... incorrect. We've been down that road before and some people get butthurt about it, but that's part of what makes this forum so great in my opinion. I don't think anyone here hates the guy, I doubt anyone even knows the guy considering some have shown he is more difficult to get in touch with than the FBI's 10 most wanted, but they are not afraid to call a spade a spade. The dude is a salesman, plain and simple, a salesman of products and practices that several have exposed the shortcomings of. I don't think he has received more scrutiny here than any other product/procedure that has been asked about and shown to be less than ideal. It's a wonder he has enough time for his personal R&D with Anderson's between the soccer lessons, panning for gold and exploding cell phones.

Some have concern that he may be a member here and calling out his snake-oil tactics are somehow inappropriate. I would be disappointed if I was asking about a product that was crap and a member here knew better, could show me why, and didn't do so. If he was a member here and his latest super juice was worth a dang, he would be welcomed with open arms and would profit nicely because of it, I guarantee it. Heck, look at @SwardmanGuy, when he first showed up on TLF sharing info about Swardsman mowers that virtually no one had heard of at the encouragement of a member, he was sort of kept at arms length and met some resistance until he showed he was here to share a quality product that many have benefitted from. Members asked questions, shared experiences, pointed out positives and negatives, and continue to do so, but he's never taken anything personal, and has done well on TLF. (I really think the turning point for Swardsman was when someone discovered you could get one equipped with a beer holder!)

In all seriousness, I don't know exactly when TLF started, but i lurked on here for over a year starting in early/mid 2017 before joining and have never witnessed anyone made to feel less or inferior in any way, no matter the question. We are all on the same or a similar journey, some are just further along than others.


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## Phids (Sep 24, 2020)

Amoo316 said:


> In relation to the topic of the video itself and this post, Doc himself said in the video something to the affect of, "If you're the type of person who lets your grass get overgrown or cuts every 10 or so days, you may need a dethatch once in a while." He also went on to say you shouldn't need to though if you "take care of your lawn properly" ie have the time/means/ability/resources/employees to ensure your lawn gets cut everyday or every other day. Then he went into his sales pitches.


I agree with your takeaway. I interpreted Doc as suggesting that people who cut too high and infrequent might need to dethatch, but for people mowing correctly dethatching shouldn't be done, presumably because it rips up the stolons.



Amoo316 said:


> 1. I didn't realize Doc hate was even a thing, let alone as part of this forum.
> 2. My comment was basically pointing out the fact Doc and many other Youtube "lawn stars" are salesman. It's where the money is in being a "youtube Influencer".


Like all things in life, once you get a group of people together who are passionate about a topic, they're likely to have very strong judgments about that topic (sometimes too strong and critical). I have watched a ton of lawn Youtube videos over the past year and learned a lot, and I typically enjoy Doc's videos. There was a point early on when I realized I should gloss over his upselling of Anderson's products, and if I do that, I can pick up some good information.


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## DurtEsanch (Jan 23, 2021)

Doc is harmless. I don't understand the hate.His info is the same as anyone else's regarding Bermuda care. He has a huge yard and it looks nice. I got some PGF balance and it works really well. His videos are interesting and different. You can only watch so many videos of someone cutting grass.

If you hate Doc then you hate anyone else who "tries to sell" products. How did you come across the products you use today? Someone "sold" you on them. Someone taught you about them and demonstrated their use.

For those that hate Doc, do you feel the same way about Ryan Knorr? Personally I really like Simple lawn solutions foliar sprays and they work really well.


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## tcorbitt20 (Aug 31, 2018)

DurtEsanch said:


> Doc is harmless. I don't understand the hate.His info is the same as anyone else's regarding Bermuda care. He has a huge yard and it looks nice. I got some PGF balance and it works really well. His videos are interesting and different. You can only watch so many videos of someone cutting grass.
> 
> If you hate Doc then you hate anyone else who "tries to sell" products. How did you come across the products you use today? Someone "sold" you on them. Someone taught you about them and demonstrated their use.
> 
> For those that hate Doc, do you feel the same way about Ryan Knorr? Personally I really like Simple lawn solutions foliar sprays and they work really well.


I can't speak for everyone, but my disdain is for the fact that he portrays himself to be an expert due to his "years of work in golf course maintenance" when his videos have made it clear that he is not an expert. I don't doubt that the products he uses work - his lawn looks good when he shows it. He is not, however, an expert. Nor do I believe he's an expert in gold panning, K9 training, anti exploding cell phone case design, used car marketing, etc. no matter what he claims to be.

Had he just claimed to be a guy who tried some stuff and figured out that "this worked for me, so maybe you could try it," so be it. Just don't tell me you're an expert when you clearly aren't and then try to hide your real identity to keep me from figuring that out. I don't like it when people assume I'm too stupid to see through the crap.


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## rbvar (May 28, 2020)

Guess that's why golf courses never verticut.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

@rbvar not sure if you meant that sarcastically but the golf courses around me verticut as often as the membership will allow.

"Stripes are for sissies" was the last straw for me. I don't think his yard looks all that great and is certainly not the "best looking bermuda lawn" as he claims.


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## LittleBearBermuda (Sep 25, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> "Stripes are for sissies" was the last straw for me. I don't think his yard looks all that great and is certainly not the "best looking bermuda lawn" as he claims.


Yeah he's ridiculous. He says strange things all the time. He only shows his lawn with dew on it. I've heard him say not to firtlize in the summer then followed by he's only putting a "light coat" of PGF complete, 10-10-10 and super juice. Maybe it's just me but a "light coat" of each of those products is a pretty heavy coat of firtlizer. Some of his products he pushes are not that bad. Idk about super juice but PGF complete is decent. I've haven't used humichar but I do use biochar and am pleased with the results.


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## SGrabs33 (Feb 13, 2017)

jayhawk said:


> .
> I still have to laugh ....saying the trucut was suddenly physically exhausting on his flat yard


Guess he needs to update his site.

"true-Cut mowers maneuver easier, cut smoother, require less maintenance and last longer than any other brand of reel mower."


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

Scott, I'm sure mcclane's 
' Unique Grass Shield Diverter Fins evenly disperse grass clippings into catcher - another feature found exclusively on McLane Reel mowers!' 
Works as well as sex panther. Gtfooh


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## BermudaBoy (Jun 27, 2019)

LittleBearBermuda said:


> Redtwin said:
> 
> 
> > "Stripes are for sissies" was the last straw for me. I don't think his yard looks all that great and is certainly not the "best looking bermuda lawn" as he claims.
> ...


I got suckered into buying Super Juice when I first started my lawn care journey. Biggest waste of $80 in my life. Let's just say you're better off putting this stuff on your lawn. I hear it's got electrolytes.


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

BermudaBoy said:


>


It is what plants crave!!!! :lol:


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## JayGo (Jun 13, 2019)

@jayhawk
"60% of the time, it works every time."


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## drewwitt (Jun 25, 2018)

The easy answer is:

1) fire up the Sunjoe and dethatch

2) unsub

3) watch @wardconnor instead

😎


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## drewwitt (Jun 25, 2018)

JayGo said:


> @jayhawk
> "60% of the time, it works every time."


🤣🤣🤣

Does it smell like big foot?


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## Txmx583 (Jun 8, 2017)

Redtwin said:


> @rbvar not sure if you meant that sarcastically but the golf courses around me verticut as often as the membership will allow.
> 
> "Stripes are for sissies" was the last straw for me. I don't think his yard looks all that great and is certainly not the "best looking bermuda lawn" as he claims.


I agree. His lawn looks good but could be better for sure. He uses a 25" McLain but overlaps so much it might as well be a 18" 😂. Has rollers on all his mowers but has zero stripes in his lawn.

I don't mind Doc but his channel is there to make money so it's a little annoying that he is always pushing McLain mowers as the greatest thing in the world. I've had one and they are a great way to get into reel cutting, but they are at the bottom as far as powered reel mowers in my opinion.


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## JayGo (Jun 13, 2019)

@drewwitt, I was trying to figure out a way to work that one in.
🤣🤣


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## rbvar (May 28, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> @rbvar not sure if you meant that sarcastically but the golf courses around me verticut as often as the membership will allow.


Assume that any post from me is sarcastic.

Except this one.


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## jochoada (May 26, 2021)

I used the dethatcher when scalped on spring. I was transitioning from 2+ inch to 0.6 inch. In my case I wanted to pull the runners up so I could come back and scalp them.

I also use it for picking up the clippings that gather after a hard rain from surface runoff.

I did a very aggressive core aeration end of may and in the heat Bermuda will recover fast assuming your nutrients are in good shape. You might thin it a bit but it takes a lot to ruin Bermuda during the growth period in summer &#128077;


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## jdpber (Mar 19, 2019)

drewwitt said:


> The easy answer is:
> 
> 1) fire up the Sunjoe and dethatch
> 
> ...


This. Also don't forget to apply a healthy dose of green lawn paint 😂🤪🤣


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## drewwitt (Jun 25, 2018)

jdpber said:


> drewwitt said:
> 
> 
> > The easy answer is:
> ...


AND SuperJuice.


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

drewwitt said:


> jdpber said:
> 
> 
> > drewwitt said:
> ...


dont kid yourself folks. You do what you want but you are being played if you keep watching his crap and sub to his channel


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## Txmx583 (Jun 8, 2017)

wardconnor said:


> drewwitt said:
> 
> 
> > jdpber said:
> ...


The mullet has spoken!!!

Love Connors channel and content!! Also glad to see those trees go bye bye in your front lawn 🙌🏻🙌🏻


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

wardconnor said:


> drewwitt said:
> 
> 
> > jdpber said:
> ...


I thought this was someone imitating the rebel until I looked at the post author and saw it was from the man himself!


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## drewwitt (Jun 25, 2018)

I am 62% sure that @wardconnor is a secret invester in SuperJuice, INC. Doc is his uncle. And he drums up the negative reviews to generate more income for Uncle Doc.

Obviously I'm joking.

One of the funniest vids Connor did was when he shoveled some snow to show he still had green grass and credited it to SuperJuice. So classic.


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

drewwitt said:


> I am 62% sure that @wardconnor is a secret invester in SuperJuice, INC. Doc is his uncle. And he drums up the negative reviews to generate more income for Uncle Doc.
> 
> Obviously I'm joking.
> 
> One of the funniest vids Connor did was when he shoveled some snow to show he still had green grass and credited it to SuperJuice. So classic.


They do wear the same hat sometimes.


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## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

drewwitt said:


> One of the funniest vids Connor did was when he shoveled some snow to show he still had green grass and credited it to SuperJuice. So classic.


Link and timestamp?


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWHFOwob_kY

Here's the original super juice video.


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## quattljl (Aug 8, 2018)

@Redtwin that was a good watch.


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## drewwitt (Jun 25, 2018)

I think that was the one! Soooo good.

"Pressure washing videos"


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## Cory (Aug 23, 2017)

Haven't watched any of his videos since he said he didn't have the right kinda Bermuda to reel mow. Guess the guy still hasn't changed &#128514;


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## BU Bear (May 15, 2020)

I stopped watching a few years ago, but a video of his popped up on my recommended page about a year ago. He had some girl mowing his lawn, does he not even mow his own lawn anymore?


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## gooodawgs (Jul 10, 2020)

I too converted from Doc to @wardconnor. Doc pushes expensive stuff, but since Connor I've bought a GM1600, Gregson Clark Sprayer and had a drag fabricated. But I'm not paying Anderson prices on humichar and fertilizer so I tell my wife we're saving money. :lol: :thumbup:


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## wardconnor (Mar 25, 2017)

My super juice formula is the only one you need


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## Phids (Sep 24, 2020)

drewwitt said:


> 3) watch @wardconnor instead
> 
> 😎


Would be kind of hard to get Bermuda advice from people who (to the best of my knowledge) don't have Bermuda lawns....

So many Doc-haters on this site.... :shocked: Strange how he really struck a nerve somehow.


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## littlehuman (Jun 10, 2020)

Phids said:


> drewwitt said:
> 
> 
> > 3) watch @wardconnor instead
> ...


I don't believe "doc hater" is the right term. Just in this post alone, folks are complaining that he doesn't practice what he preaches, and also gives blatantly misleading and/or false information. "BS hater" seems more apt, and Doc has proven to spew some BS in his videos and contradict himself in others. He might be a pretty decent guy all things considered (I don't know him personally), but the material he posts on YT occasionally borders on straight-up scamming folks and that's enough for someone to justifiably be a "hater" IMHO. Anyone else could copy word-for-word what he posts and they would be met with the same skepticism and BS-detectors. It's the material, not the human.

That said, striking a nerve "somehow"...? People are taking offense to being peddled bad/misleading information from a guy who's clearly in the game for clicks and money... that feels pretty straightforward to me.


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## Cory (Aug 23, 2017)

littlehuman said:


> It's the material, not the human.


Pretty much sums it up. One season he's against "synthetic fertilizers", the next he's using them and selling them. One season he doesn't have the type of Bermuda for reel mowing, the next season he's reel mowing and selling reel mowers. I personally couldn't care less about making money from the videos and trying to sell products, that is really the whole point of having a YouTube channel.


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## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

This entire topic has reminded us of the power of group identity. Are you a Doc-Hater or are you not? You must choose now!!

:lol:

What if I said I like some of his videos, and dislike others? GASP!


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

andymac7 said:


> What if I said I like some of his videos, and dislike others? GASP!


That probably describes most of us. I really liked his older videos but you can only insult me a couple of times before you reach "hack" status.


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## Phids (Sep 24, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> That probably describes most of us. I really liked his older videos but you can only insult me a couple of times before you reach "hack" status.


I will agree with you that his older videos (pre-Andersons years) have a different vibe as Doc wasn't trying to upsell products quite so much. But one you get over that commercial aspect of Doc's current videos, I think they have some helpful info, and many of the gripes here are somewhat specious. So Doc get criticized because he has his son (or that girl) cut his lawn? Because he uses green/blue marker dye to spray chemicals on it? Heck, even the commotion in this thread started when people took issue with Doc saying to not dethatch Bermuda (and he did say he's trying to find a verticutter to rent in his video yesterday), but then the consensus among users here in the replies seems to be....to not dethatch Bermuda, but to verticut.

So maybe Doc does contradict himself from time to time and I have missed it. He puts out a ton of content with a lot of direct advice, so it's possible. I just think that every Youtube channel has flaws, but doesn't get as much criticism as his. And yes, every Youtuber who gives out advice is claiming to be an authority on a matter in some way, so it's not just Doc doing this.


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## LittleBearBermuda (Sep 25, 2020)

Yes he did say he's looking for a verticutter. But he does contradict him often. I do watch his videos but for entertainment purposes. He is not an expert but he tries different things and see what works....but at the same time he portrays himself as an expert. He might be a member here. His video after this thread started he said there was "a lot of talk about not dethatching bermuda". Maybe he was talking about us lol


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## Cory (Aug 23, 2017)

andymac7 said:


> This entire topic has reminded us of the power of group identity. Are you a Doc-Hater or are you not? You must choose now!!
> 
> :lol:
> 
> What if I said I like some of his videos, and dislike others? GASP!


I'd say good for you, enjoy them, no one said you couldn't. Personally, I find all lawn videos a waste of time. Haven't watched a lawn video in at least 2 years. I can get all the info I need from NC State and TLF, doubt I would learn anything new from any of the lawn gurus at this point.


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

Cory said:


> andymac7 said:
> 
> 
> > This entire topic has reminded us of the power of group identity. Are you a Doc-Hater or are you not? You must choose now!!
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## andymac7 (Oct 30, 2018)

Cory said:


> andymac7 said:
> 
> 
> > This entire topic has reminded us of the power of group identity. Are you a Doc-Hater or are you not? You must choose now!!
> ...


Fair enough @Cory  . I know my post was a little on the smirky side, but the point I was making was- Let's always at least be open to learn from others, and take the good and the bad. You might doubt that you can learn new things from lawn gurus, but I think we should always keep an open mind. :thumbup:


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

Phids said:


> drewwitt said:
> 
> 
> > 3) watch @wardconnor instead
> ...


Well damn, I guess I can't listen to LCN


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I listen to a lot of YT guys just for entertainment purposes. I really don't learn much from them since they either have different 
grass types or treat their grass differently. LCN has Empire but he treats it 100% differently than I do so I can't even really compare notes. He has products he sells but will also show that many times you can just go to Home Depot or Lowes for what you need. Even though I don't learn much, I find it very entertaining. It's like the quote from Pulp Fiction "...personality goes a long way."


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## Phids (Sep 24, 2020)

Redtwin said:


> I listen to a lot of YT guys just for entertainment purposes. I really don't learn much from them since they either have different
> grass types or treat their grass differently.


Sometimes different grass type, or different equipment, or different budgets, different motivation, different goals....but yes I see the value is watching different lawn YT channels (including Doc's) because I can pick up tips here and there, and it's interesting viewing. For example, I have never completely leveled my lawn in sand, but I have watched a ton of videos of other people doing it so I know the parameters of how it's done. Also, it's kind of inspiring to watch other people do stuff and get nice results.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

I would have to assume it comes from the way things are being peddled.

Let's take two different channels and compare:

Doc from How to with Doc

Pete from GCI Turf

Both channels will try to sell you products.

Looking today Doc is trying to sell 6 lbs of Corn/Molasis mix for about $30 according to Amazon as a hunting or game watching attractant. Anybody who does any hunting at all knows how ridiculous that price is for that amount of product and how many similar products there are to that on the market. If you didn't hunt, and were just getting into it, this magic deer mix might seem like a great idea, if you do, it's kind of insulting. (Also isn't Doc in North GA? Hunting over bait in the Northern zone of the state is illegal.)

Pete's last few videos where he tried to sell us something were the Big Sprinkler series. He did NOT take all 4 big sprinklers out to his boosted well pump show you how far they throw and tell you how great they are. Instead he took them to his home water with crappy pressure and flow and showed you what you can expect out of each one in a common situation. Then he hooked them up to a boosted home source and showed you what you could expect there. He even went as far as taking the wobbler out to his big boy setup and showed you why the wobbler wouldn't be great if you have too much pressure/volume.

Both videos/series tried to sell me something. 1 is aimed at providing me with as much information as they can and giving me real world experiences. The other is trying to sell deer attractant in an area we already know he has a lot of deer activity.

I'll agree that you can gain something from everybody, Doc does have some good information once in a while. The problem and I would assume the problem most people have is the 95% of BS he throws at you to get to it. I've legit gotten to the point where I'm like "oh a Doc video, let's see what silliness he wants to try to sell me on today." It's entertainment for me, not a lawn care channel. Pete puts something out and it has my attention.

This back and forth kind of sums it up








The fact there has been no feed in the feeder since January doesn't mean the deer don't already know this is a spot they can come get food when they smell it.


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## falconsfan (Mar 25, 2019)

Hunting deer over bait is legal in all counties in Georgia (since 2018), on private property. $30 a bag is ridiculous when you can get corn for $12 for 50 pounds.


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## Amoo316 (Jul 8, 2021)

falconsfan said:


> Hunting deer over bait is legal in all counties in Georgia (since 2018), on private property. $30 a bag is ridiculous when you can get corn for $12 for 50 pounds.


Good call, I didn't realize this. I'm on nuisance permits now so this no longer affect me.


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## tcorbitt20 (Aug 31, 2018)

Sell stuff all you want on YouTube. Good for you. Just don't portray yourself as something you're not. That's my beef.

When do you think there'll be some doc branded drone that he'll sell on the basis of his experience as a rescue helicopter pilot in the coast guard?


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I'm still trying to find that golf course out there in GA where they don't use reel mowers or stripe their fairways.


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## ReelMowLow74 (Apr 13, 2021)

tcorbitt20 said:


> Sell stuff all you want on YouTube. Good for you. Just don't portray yourself as something you're not. That's my beef.
> 
> When do you think there'll be some doc branded drone that he'll sell on the basis of his experience as a rescue helicopter pilot in the coast guard?


^^^ Agree!

I just can't get myself to believe he sits down with Anderson's and (his words) "one of the most well known and highly regarded superintendents in the country," and TELLS both of them the fix for their soil is… wait for it… dirt booster. That Super probably never tested his soil, had no idea what problems he was facing, was absolutely desperate before hosting a major event, and pleaded for Doc's help… right!

I'll be honest, Doc is who got me started with learning about Bermuda and ultimately led me here. I paid for PGF Complete, had a McLane mower, etc. but I continued to learn and have gone away from most of that. Not saying it's bad, I just needed different stuff for my lawn.

I still watch just because, but can't stand the arrogance or what seems to be pure deception with some things he says. Just be genuine and honest!

Long way of me also saying… I appreciate the actual topic at hand and learning more about dethatching and other options that harm/benefit Bermuda.


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