# I Bet I Am About To Screw This Up



## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

You know, grass doesn't "fill in" as much as you would like it to...

I have a very old New England lawn. My plan this year is to just sift and sort out as much of the nasty old stuff that I can using prodiamine and Tenacity.

There are so many different kinds of grasses mixed in this old lawn that trying to ID any particular one is kind of pointless. However, I am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that I have some large patches of bentgrass. And...

When I kill off those large patches of nasty grass... I will have large patches of nasty bare dirt... that cannot be reseeded until next fall because of the prodiamine.

And the worst of it is that some of these patches are near the sidewalk which means I could see some erosion. Hmph...

This will be interesting.

I would suggest that the part of the Lawn Care Guide that speaks to renovations be revised to say that at least 3 years experience is needed before trying to do a reno.


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## Jconnelly6b (Mar 4, 2018)

BX could you leave out the prodiamine and use Tenacity as your first round of pre-m? Then get some seed down on those bare spots, and put your prodiamine down later in fall?


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

Worth a shot. I picked one up as I'm killing off some areas and pulling plugs from other parts of the lawn.

ProPlugger 5-In-1 Lawn Tool and Garden Tool, Bulb Planter, Weeder, Sod Plugger, Annual Planter, Soil Test https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003MRTVUI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_uvVBBbCT0ZRFQ

https://youtu.be/-qX1XQqP0eE


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Jconnelly6b said:


> BX could you leave out the prodiamine and use Tenacity as your first round of pre-m? Then get some seed down on those bare spots, and put your prodiamine down later in fall?


Too late! The prodiamine is already down. 

I already put down one 4 oz. rate of Tenacity, too! My plan is two more apps 17 days apart.

I suppose I could stop now and see what happens but the Irish in me won't let that happen. I am going to beat this lawn into submission but I bet I won't like the results for the next year or so.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

zeus201 said:


> Worth a shot. I picked one up as I'm killing off some areas and pulling plugs from other parts of the lawn.


Hmph. Hmmm... pull plugs of any remaining good grass and plant them in bare spots to help it spread. Hmph.

You know, that's a pretty good idea...


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## Alex1389 (May 23, 2018)

What if you just use a garden weasel in the bare areas to break up the Prodiamine once the bentgrass and other weeds are dead and gone?


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## zeus201 (Aug 30, 2017)

BXMurphy said:


> Hmph. Hmmm... pull plugs of any remaining good grass and plant them in bare spots to help it spread. Hmph.
> 
> You know, that's a pretty good idea...


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Alex1389 said:


> What if you just use a garden weasel in the bare areas to break up the Prodiamine once the bentgrass and other weeds are dead and gone?


Yep! That thought crossed my mind. I think I will be ok because there is always a way when you ask in this forum. Thanks!

I am glad to have this opportunity to really put everything I learned here to the test with a lawn that I am not married to.

I re-read @g-man's Lawn Care Guide. There are a couple of things there that I still have to get good at: grass ID and being able to spray evenly.

It's plain as day where I miss some spots when I spray PreM... the weeds break through in streaks.  I am going to get some good practice this fall!

Also, I should have a better shot at grass ID once I get down to the rye, fescue, (maybe some KBG), quackgrass, and triv.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

zeus201 said:


> BXMurphy said:
> 
> 
> > Hmph. Hmmm... pull plugs of any remaining good grass and plant them in bare spots to help it spread. Hmph.
> ...


No kidding, right? Its like the more you know, the more you want to try something out.


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## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

I bought a garden weasel to break a prodiamine layer in clay. I'll rent a slit seeder next time, it is cheaper than the chiropractor fees.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Miggity said:


> I bought a garden weasel to break a prodiamine layer in clay. I'll rent a slit seeder next time, it is cheaper than the chiropractor fees.


Ugh!  Any long-lasting ill effects? You OK?


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## Miggity (Apr 25, 2018)

I'm fine. The chiropractor fee was a joke, but while the Weasel works great for a small area, it gets to be real work, real fast. If doing more than like a 3'x6' area, make sure it is well irrigated beforehand or consider aeration, power raking, or some other means to break the barrier. Some people may consider it justification, but I prefer to think of it as killing two birds with one stone.


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## JohnP (Oct 24, 2017)

@BXMurphy Don't give up! Make that lawn your beach!


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

JohnP said:


> @BXMurphy Don't give up! Make that lawn your beach!


Hahaha! That's great!

This will be a great experience to see what this thing is made of. Let's see if I can turn around a zombie lawn without a renovation (but I see one in my future).


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

@BXMurphy

Once you get the junk like bentgrass out...

If it's really old like from the 60s or before, it's probably a mix of old KBGs (like common type or cultivars like Merion, Baron, Kenblue, etc.), fine fescues (chewings, hard, strong creeping and slender creeping), and KY31 Tall Fescue (which segregates into wider bladed patches over time). Probably not any PR unless someone has seeded it in the past 15 years or so. It wasn't popular a long time ago.

Pulling plugs and relocating them is the best way.

If you end up needing seed also, you can get the closest matches as far as cultivars. I went through something similar recently. Baron, Kenblue, and common KBG are all still available. I recently bought one of these types for use in an old lawn.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Green said:


> @BXMurphy
> 
> Once you get the junk like bentgrass out...
> 
> ...


Thanks, Green. This lawn is old like o-l-d-e olde.

I have all the salad weeds out of it and crabgrass is largely under contol. I wouldn't know annua if I tripped over it but I will get that under control with prodiamine.

The darned lawn just looks sooo tired. It's scrubby in the summer. Rough under foot and it is a patina of green and brown splinters.

How come you sought out old cultivars instead of just burning it down and renovating?


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Chinese proverb: Wise man ask for advice before he acts. Man who acts before he acquires guidance end up prison wife.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

BXMurphy said:


> How come you sought out old cultivars instead of just burning it down and renovating?


Family member's lawn. Just a few bad enough spots that need seed. Already took care of some last Fall and this past Spring.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Ridgerunner said:


> Chinese proverb: Wise man ask for advice before he acts. Man who acts before he acquires guidance end up prison wife.


That would be me! 

Hi, RidgeRunner! How is your lawn doing these days?


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

I hate pale green, fine bladed grass. All that crap has to go.


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## Ridgerunner (May 16, 2017)

Lawn has been dormant for nearly 6 weeks.


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Ridgerunner said:


> Lawn has been dormant for nearly 6 weeks.


Blah. As long as you are ok with it and know that it will come roaring back with a vengeance straight out of the Bible in a couple of weeks, all is right with the world.

It is nice to hear from you. Be well.


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## b0nk3rs (Aug 21, 2017)

When was prodiamine put down and can you confirm your rate (actual amount of product total, etc)?


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

b0nk3rs said:


> When was prodiamine put down and can you confirm your rate (actual amount of product total, etc)?


Hi, Bonks! Nice to hear from you. I trust all is well with you and yours.

I put down the 4 month rate of prodiamine on 8/6. I came in with the 4 oz./acre rate of Tenacity on 8/10.

I watered in that prodiamine really well. We then had a week's worth of rainy weather but I snuck that Tenacity in there. That was followed by 3 inches of rain over 3-4 days.

The grass seems to be holding up pretty well except for predictable bleaching. I am going to do two more apps of Tenacity at the 4 oz./acre rate. The next one will be 8/27 (about 2.5 weeks apart).

I am pretty excited about getting all the nastiness out of the lawn. Once everything is under control, locked down, and stabilized, I will look for some partial renovations in areas just large enough for me to manage without going Full Monty.


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