# Chris LI's Lawn Journal



## Chris LI

1-12-19

Picked up a few sticks and dormant seeded. Pasted from "What did you do on your lawn today?", below.

My Mazama and Beyond 50/50 blend arrived yesterday and went right into the freezer. Today, ~22 hours later I blended it with the Bewitched I had on hand to arrive at equal proportions (33.333%), and dormant seeded my entire yard at approximately 1 lb./k. I made extra passes over damaged/thin areas.

I know overseeding of kbg is not extremely effective. However, I've had some success, and am always trying to repair/improve areas.

I'm always fighting some type of battle (traffic, shade, animals, time, etc.) and need all the ammo that I can get.


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## Scagfreedom48z+

I'll be following, I'm eager to see your results!


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## Chris LI

Thanks!


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I pulled several small chickweed clumps from the mulch circles next to the driveway. I got many of the roots, but the soil was partially frozen. This has been typically a bad area due to a large seed bed from an outbreak a few years ago. It seems to have lessened progressively over the last couple of years with all the hand pulling of weeds.

Today, I picked up sticks and noticed that my mini renos began to lose some color. However, they still have excellent color compared to the rest of the yard (which still has some color, unlike most yards in the neighborhood).


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## Scagfreedom48z+

Chris LI said:


> Yesterday, I pulled several small chickweed clumps from the mulch circles next to the driveway. I got many of the roots, but the soil was partially frozen. This has been typically a bad area due to a large seed bed from an outbreak a few years ago. It seems to have lessened progressively over the last couple of years with all the hand pulling of weeds.
> 
> Today, I picked up sticks and noticed that my mini renos began to lose some color. However, they still have excellent color compared to the rest of the yard (which still has some color, unlike most yards in the neighborhood).


With this weather, it's been brutal to get motivated or even having a half decent day to get and do a small clean up. The ground is solid like a rock and the last thing I want to do it crush the grass crowns. Mine is holding on to very minimal grew , but with the single digit nights we've had already, the grass color isn't terrible.


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## Chris LI

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> With this weather, it's been brutal to get motivated or even having a half decent day to get and do a small clean up. The ground is solid like a rock and the last thing I want to do it crush the grass crowns. Mine is holding on to very minimal grew , but with the single digit nights we've had already, the grass color isn't terrible.


My location is typically a little warmer than yours, but the mercury is dropping like a rock, as I write this, it dropped 10 degrees in the last hour, and the wind picked up this afternoon. We won't be nearly as cold as the midwest has been, but we're predicted to be in low single digits by morning (probably set a record). It wasn't too bad this morning (23*), and the color came back after the rain and milder temps we had yesterday (42*). The cold snap should be for only a day or so. 
We'll see what happens with the color. Hopefully, the temps will take out some non-beneficial insects (ticks, mosquitoes, grubs, ants, etc.). We stocked up the bird feeder for our feathered friends (...and furry, too. Lol).


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## Chris LI

Pulled out a couple of survey stakes, since the town closed out the permit and issued a CO for our sunroom.

Hand picked my cold weather arch nemesis, Chickweed, from some of my mini renos/overseeded areas.

Picked up some sticks and examined some of the "sparsely populated areas" of turf, to determine if the freeze/thaw had worked the dormant seed from three weeks ago into the soil. To my surprise, it looks like most of it has been incorporated.


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## OnTheOxbow

Come on now, lets see some pictures of that brand new sunroom. I'm also anxious to see how the kbg oversees turns out. I may try a kbg overseed in my future, so i'm rooting for you. :thumbup:


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> Hand picked my cold weather arch nemesis, Chickweed, from some of my mini renos/overseeded areas.
> 
> Picked up some sticks and examined some of the "sparsely populated areas" of turf, to determine if the freeze/thaw had worked the dormant seed from three weeks ago into the soil. To my surprise, it looks like most of it has been incorporated.


I found some chickweed in the front as well the other day. My seed has pretty well disappeared, too.


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## Chris LI

Picked rock salt out of the first 10-20' of the lawn. The town hwy dept doesn't plow my side of the street too well, but they get a bit overzealous with the salt.


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## Scagfreedom48z+

Yikes! Good way to destroy a lawn! I thought that was ice cubes at first glance.


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## Green

That is a crazy amount of salt!


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## Chris LI

I just checked...we received .93" of rain today. It was definitely helpful to pick up the rock salt yesterday. I'm sure my turf would be seeing some ill effects from that amount of rain dissolving at least some of the salt.


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## Chris LI

Woke up to about 2" of snow this morning. I had a morning appointment little over a half hour away and they received 4"+. Some nice sun melted off everything on the driveway, sidewalk, and some of the grass alongside. I took a few minutes to scope out the turf in those areas and noticed some kbg starting to look a tiny bit greener. It looked like I spotted one newly sprouted dormant seeded kbg, but it might be wishful thinking. I had some very late germinating seed in the backyard during the fall, so that's more likely the case. I will be on the lookout more often now, since it's still daylight when I get home from work. 
We're expecting some more snow tomorrow night, possibly changing over to rain. Temperatures are expected to be below average for the next week, but that little bit of green, with more daylight will help me get through it.


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## Chris LI

Picked up several decent sized branches, with the largest about 10' long and 1.5" diameter. I remembered that I had some real old TTTF/FF dense shade mix in the freezer, so I threw it down in the very thin, highly compacted area near the gate to the backyard, in case my kbg dormant seed doesn't pop.


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> Picked up several decent sized branches, with the largest about 10' long and 1.5" diameter. I remembered that I had some real old TTTF/FF dense shade mix in the freezer, so I threw it down in the very thin, highly compacted area near the gate to the backyard, in case my kbg dormant seed doesn't pop.


How old was the seed?


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Picked up several decent sized branches, with the largest about 10' long and 1.5" diameter. I remembered that I had some real old TTTF/FF dense shade mix in the freezer, so I threw it down in the very thin, highly compacted area near the gate to the backyard, in case my kbg dormant seed doesn't pop.
> 
> 
> 
> How old was the seed?
Click to expand...


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## Green

Yeah, I guess that's getting old, and is probably 2013 crop...? Do you think the freezer prolongs the life?
Thankfully a lot of the dormant seeding both of us are doing is just for extra insurance.

I once had 5-year-old TTTF seed fail to germinate on me (though it might have been harvested the year before I bought it, so it could have been 6 years).

I'm always afraid to buy those "dense shade mixes", because I can't help but wonder if they're more likely to allow Poa Triv as "other crop" in such a mixture (versus a non-shade mix), because of its great shade performance. I already have more Poa Triv in the lawn than I know what to do with, unfortunately. Do you think that fear of shade mixes is justified? The only one I know of that intentionally includes Poa Triv is one by Jonathan Green, a mix which I stay far away from!


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## Chris LI

I think the freezer probably prolongs the life some, but haven't seen any definitive studies on the subject. I kept forgetting to throw that bag down somewhere over the last few years, as I had it on the bottom rack on the freezer door (I usually hog the whole bottom of the stand alone freezer with my seed :lol: ). I've been using straight Bewitched for my shady areas for a few years (until my recent purchase of Mazama/Beyond blend which I blend with my Bewitched), so it fell to the wayside. I figured "What do I have to lose?". I'm still undecided if I want to play with PRG, and figured I could drop some seed today before the next round of snow. I ordered my Pro Plugger today from Amazon, so that might be an option, if I find a good harvest area.

As far as concerns about Triv, I hadn't really thought about it, since I learned about Triv after shying away from the dense mixes, in favor of BW to hopefully get kbg spreading in the shade. However, you make a good point. If I find that the Mazama/Bewitched combo won't work for me in my shade conditions, I'll likely go for a highly rated shade mix, such as the offering from SSS (which has some Mazama with FF).


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## Chris LI

Early last week I continued picking up sticks and hand picked a few weeds.

Today I created a lot more sticks and tied them up in bunches for pickup. Greenup is underway!


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## Powhatan

@Chris LI those crepe myrtles?


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## Chris LI

@Powhatan 
Yes. I know most folks prune them as trees, but when I inherited them, they were maintained as shrubs. They work well for our location as natural screening. The boom color is fuschia. They reproduce like wildfire and I have trouble giving them away.


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## Chris LI

I didn't get to do any "real work" on the lawn. However, I applied some "organic" fertilizer, so to speak, when I dropped a 16" tree, and spread chainsaw chips across the backyard. My son helped me and earned a few bucks. As a bonus, I got it down without crushing the neighbor's fence. P.S. that's a very old dent in the top rail of the chain link.


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## Chris LI

Continued pruning various plants and shrubs (Montauk Daisy, two Hydrangeas, and the lower portion of a Yew). Of course, this included picking the prunings up off the lawn.

I sprinkled some of my 3-way kbg blend on a spot that heaved and will be covered with the anticipated rainfall tomorrow. I had 100% clover in this area last year (entrance to vegetable garden) and wiped it out with some CCO, leaving no ground cover for the remainder of the summer. It's filling in nicely from a fall seeding, but saw the opportunity to get good seed-to-soil contact, so I went for it.

No real worthwhile photos to post. However, the best greenup so far is next to the driveway in an non-irrigated location that I am tracking. The roped off area was seeded in the fall after the turf was decimated by foot traffic. The kbg is greening up nicely, considering the below normal temps we've been experiencing. This area gets torched each summer and I syringe and/or flood the area with a hose and sprinkler during August on those really hot days to keep the turf alive. As a result, zoysia has established many years ago and competes strongly against the kbg. I hit it with Tenacity last fall and plan on beating it back again this year, one it comes out of dormancy. The fall urea blitz looks like it gave the kbg a nice head start. I might spoonfeed a little this spring, once I see how well the blitz worked, to give a little extra boost to the kbg, to help hold its ground. The area is thickening up well, so I'm holding off in the meantime, so as to not use carb reserves up, with too early off a N app.


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## Chris LI

We had high winds today, so I didn't get out until late afternoon (didn't want to have large tree branches falling on me),  .

I continued strategically pruning the yew, because it was overgrown. I picked up a few sticks and picked some weeds. I used my small cordless blower to lightly fluff up/ blow leaves which were matted down, so as to not disturb seed or seedlings. Also, I blew the chainsaw chips of maple around, so the turf in that area isn't smothered.

I sharpened my Ninja blade and balanced it on my new Oregon balancer. What a difference! No more using a nail. This will help save my crankshaft assembly, and maybe even out my cut.

Received. 0.85" of rain yesterday.


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## Scagfreedom48z+

Chris LI said:


> We had high winds today, so I didn't get out until late afternoon (didn't want to have large tree branches falling on me),  .
> 
> I continued strategically pruning the yew, because it was overgrown. I picked up a few sticks and picked some weeds. I used my small cordless blower to lightly fluff up/ blow leaves which were matted down, so as to not disturb seed or seedlings. Also, I blew the chainsaw chips of maple around, so the turf in that area isn't smothered.
> 
> I sharpened my Ninja blade and balanced it on my new Oregon balancer. What a difference! No more using a nail. This will help save my crankshaft assembly, and maybe even out my cut.
> 
> Received. 0.85" of rain yesterday.


I had the same battle up here in Mass. The wind was brutal all day. The quicker i would pick up the debris, the quicker it would be replaced by small falling branches and leaves that remained from the fall.


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## Chris LI

Temps got up to 57* today, which was a relief. They've been below normal, and I really need my overseed/dormant seed to kick into overdrive. I'm seeing decent germination, but I'm getting antsy. I picked up some more sticks from the high winds yesterday and the residual tree removal from last week. Also, I picked a few more weeds.

I spent a bit of time using my Christmas present for the first time; the hedge trimmer attachment for my Echo PAS (with 2 extensions), to prune back my overgrown yew. I used my bypass loppers and bypass hand pruners to do some surgical cuts on the lower branches. I removed the bottom 2'-3' of branches for mower clearance, and to get some light to the surrounding turf. It looks like the fall N blitz strengthened the yew, so I thick the cutback shouldn't hurt it to much and will help it to fill out. Let's hope the turf will benefit even more.

I scouted more weeds, seed germination, turf breaking dormancy, etc. It's looking reasonably good, but never good/fast enough!

I'm holding off on raking, mowing, plugging, and fert, so far. However, I'm jonesing to do all of them! :clapping:


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## GA_Fescue_Man

Chris LI said:


> I didn't get to do any "real work" on the lawn. However, I applied some "organic" fertilizer, so to speak, when I dropped a 16" tree, and spread chainsaw chips across the backyard. My son helped me and earned a few bucks. As a bonus, I got it down without crushing the neighbor's fence. P.S. that's a very old dent in the top rail of the chain link.


Nice job on that tree! A friend and I took down 5 trees in the backyard last fall and I had 2 massive piles of limbs to get rid of. After burning for a couple of days two weekends ago, I am now down to one massive pile . Looking good man.


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## Chris LI

@GA_Fescue_Man 
Thank you, sir! Now I need to split and season it for the fire pit next year.

This week I want able to do much in the yard for a few reasons. However, I pulled some of the last few Hairy Bittercress, some Chickweed, and some of this:


The ugly P word is back! Poa a is starting to stand out from the yellowed kbg (from late season Tenacity app/fungal damage).

I got out earlier today, just as the rain was setting in to do some pole hedge clipping, to shape my overgrown Eastern Red Cedars. I'll try to get back out later after the rain stops.


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## Chris LI

After running around taking care of birthday party drop offs and surveying for this year's game plan,and picking some nasty weeds (Hairy Bittercress) in my friend's lawn.

Later, I was able to gently rake up the trimmings from this morning's hedge clipper escapade.

I also picked up a bunch of twigs and used my 20v cordless mini shop blower to fluff up matted oak leaves. Good thing, as the lawn is mostly out of dormancy (every thing except that [email protected]#$%^&* zoysia!). Luckily, that's basically limited to my hellstrip.

I know that I have good soil in my front bed, as I found a healthy bunch of Chickweed, that I pulled.



Received 0.22" of rain today.


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## Chris LI

Gingerly raked 95+% of the yard today before the rain to remove small twigs, prunings, leaves, matted leaves, etc., so as not to disturb the fall and dormant seedlings. I still have some more pruning and spring cleanup to do, but it felt great to do something on a more significant scale, specifically for the lawn.

Received only 0.09" rain so far, from the predicted "coastal storm", and it stopped raining awhile ago.

Temps are still colder than normal, but I'm encouraged the predicted high tomorrow 63* should be a little higher than they originally expected.

I'm still holding off on the urea a little bit longer, but the predicted rain for Friday has me considering making a light drop on Thursday.


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## Chris LI

Scouted and evaluated most of the lawn. I noticed an increase in greenup since yesterday. Temps were a little higher than the predicted 63*, for today. We were at 66* when I got home this evening, a few minutes to 6 pm. I found and pulled various weeds, notably Poa A with seedheads, already! This is the type that is on the small side with long stems which shoot out sideways, like a crab. Yikes!


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## Chris LI

I spent an hour getting some exercise by hand aerating compacted areas with my handy Yard Butler solid 4-tine aerator.

I punched holes along both sides of the driveway (mostly on the left). I also punched many holes around the corner of the house to the back gate, where I've been pounding it with kbg and TTTF with the hopes of having some ground cover. If I can get my hands on some decent prg soon, I'll drop some. The TTTF is pretty old and I haven't seen any pop yet from the late winter dormant seed. Hopefully, these holes I punched before the predicted rain tonight/tomorrow will wash into some of the holes. Thankfully, I'm seeing some new crowns form, but everything still looks weak, in these areas.


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## Chris LI

1. Trip #1 to HD-picked up 25 bags of brown mulch, which is on sale 5 for $10 until 4/10. They had guys helping to load it into cars. Get it while you can!

2. Trip #2 to HD-picked up 27 bags of paver base (cleaned out the pallet and got a bunch of broken bags for 1/2 price) and 1 bag of mason sand. Loaded up on coffee, Advil and smeared some Capzasin HP on my back, before unloading. I walked the bags through the garage door and out the back door of the house to avoid trampling the grass. Craft beer to follow a long, hot shower.

Received .44" of rain.


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## Chris LI

Saturday, I sharpened and balanced all of my four my Snapper blades. I love my new Oregon balancer. It should significantly reduce vibration. I also pulled and cleaned the plug (which looked pretty clean) and lived up some moving parts.

Also, I ordered my b day present from R&R products; their 36" level rake (level lawn/Acculevel version). The 48" looked great, but the 36" is better for storage and on the budget.

Yesterday, I got home from work and tried my "drill and fill" method, but the main sand was too wet to drop through the funnel. Lightly sprinkled some urea in portions of my mini renos/overseeds before rain, to see how well and how quickly it will show results. I might mix and spray some liquid spoonfeed urea if I have time this week. Work is starting to get busy, so we'll see what happens.

Today, I picked a few weeds. Fall N blitz is kicking in. I'll need to cleanup more this week. Mason sand is dying out, but still too wet.

Got .35" of rain overnight.


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## social port

Chris,

The last time that I sharpened the blades on my Gravely, I had a difficult time getting them balanced. Ever since, I've been bothered by a very slight vibration. So, that Oregon balancer looks appealing to me. I see some online. Did you get the one priced around $5 or under, or is there some other model I should be looking at?


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## Chris LI

No, it's quite a bit more. I hemmed and hawed over buying it, due to the price, but decided that it was worth it in the long run. It went up a little since I bought it, but you might find one cheaper, if you shop around. I bolted the balanced G3 on the mower, but haven't tried it yet, to give it a proper review. Here's a screenshot with the info.


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## social port

Dang, that is a little more than $5 :lol: 
I may have to live with my anxiety using my imprecise method of checking the balance.

That looks like a nice system, though...hmmm...


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## Chris LI

social port said:


> Dang, that is a little more than $5 :lol:
> I may have to live with my anxiety using my imprecise method of checking the balance.
> 
> That looks like a nice system, though...hmmm...


Yep, I fretted about it for awhile, and figured:

1. If I save the crank on my 21" (a spindle on your 42"), it's worth it.

2. I need to live a little.

I screwed it to a stud in my garage (boiler room, actually). Also, the "L" shaped piece is a gauge to check the trueness (is that a word?) of the blade (how straight or wavy). One of my blades is a little off, which might also affect the balance.


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## social port

I equate a balanced blade and a better cut. That is all I need in the way of reasons. 
Dang, I think I am going to need to look into this balancer more. Let me know how well you like it once you've given it a spin :thumbup:


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## Chris LI

social port said:


> I equate a balanced blade and a better cut.


I was thinking the same thing.



social port said:


> Let me know how well you like it once you've given it a spin :thumbup:


Will do! I just hope I don't decide to scrap all of my old blades, and order new ones.


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## Chris LI

I went to fill in my journal for the day and saw my last post mentioning that I would update @social port on my opinion of my new Oregon blade balancer.

I completely forgot to analyze the results (i.e. amount of vibration, cut quality, etc.). I just enjoyed the clean up mow on my front yard, and a small section of my backyard. I am pleased to say that I enjoyed the mow and; I and was in the zone. The cut quality was great and the reason I didn't notice anything, was...NO VIBRATION!
:thumbup: on the balancer. It was only 2/3 of a full mow, but vibration is absent.

Back to the report for the day...
I posted in another thread and will have to follow up on the cleanup/first mow:

I stuck with the plan to start lower this year with HOC at 2". The debate was whether or not to bag. My initial plan was to mulch at 2" and run it over again with the bagger on at 4", so I didn't pull up to much OM. Some advice I received was to not put the badger on at all, and only mulch.

I tried mulching only, and there were many sticks, bed mulch, plastics and garbage (from the local shopping center down the street). I obliterated all the natural debris (in a double pass, cross-hatched pattern), but there was a haze on the lawn, so I tried bagging at 4", which did nothing. I lowered the deck to 3" and cross-hatched a small area, without achieving much better results. I dropped it back down to 2", and it picked up the debris, nicely. In a non-tree infested area, the mulch-only technique would have been fine, but I really needed to bag, as I usually do. I'm not too worried about losing too much OM, because I mulch 18"-24" of leaves into the lawn reach fall.

Since I test dropped a light sprinkle of urea on the weak mini-reno and overseeded areas last week, and started to see results th today, I realized the lawn was starving, even though I did the Fall N Blitz. I was on the fence between dropping .25 or .5 lbs N, and this pushed me to go for .5 lbs N from urea. I dropped .5 lbs and finished in a light sprinkle of rain. Up to 1" is expected tonight.

The areas that I didn't mow, I used the backpack blower to fluff up the turf and matted leaves. Also, I picked some weeds. I really need to get some tenacity Tenacity down, but still have some dormant seed popping, so I'm holding off, for now.


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## Chris LI

A visit to the taxman took a chunk out of my day, so I didn't do much. I picked some Hairy Bittercress and Chickweed... need to get some Tenacity down ASAP!

I cleaned up the edge on my grass clippers (my old man's, from when I was a kid) with a hand file, and trimmed the baby Bewitched alongside my new deck. The grass is thickening up nicely after an unusually cold spring. The TTTF is noticeably ahead of the kbg, this time of year, which is normal.

Got .81" of rain last night/early morning. Hopefully, it wasn't too much for my urea drop yesterday.


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## Green

@Chris LI, can grass shears be truly sharpened? If so, how? I once risked submitting some to a sharpening service, and when they came back, the blades no longer met.


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> @Chris LI, can grass shears be truly sharpened? If so, how? I once risked submitting some to a sharpening service, and when they came back, the blades no longer met.


I gently ran the file along the cutting edge on the top/outer side (trying to maintain the same angle as you would with a mower blade), and then a couple of very gentle cleanup passes along the flat side that slides along the other half of the scissors, to clean up any burrs. The first photo is along the cutting edge, and the second is the cleanup pass.


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## social port

Chris LI said:


> I went to fill in my journal for the day and saw my last post mentioning that I would update @social port on my opinion of my new Oregon blade balancer.
> 
> I completely forgot to analyze the results (i.e. amount of vibration, cut quality, etc.). I just enjoyed the clean up mow on my front yard, and a small section of my backyard. I am pleased to say that I enjoyed the mow and; I and was in the zone. The cut quality was great and the reason I didn't notice anything, was...NO VIBRATION!
> on the balancer. It was only 2/3 of a full mow, but vibration is absent.


Chris, thanks for the follow-up :thumbup:. That sounds pretty good to me, and now I am thinking about ordering some for my Gravely.


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## Scagfreedom48z+

Chris, How is your winter seeding going? Any progress ?


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## Chris LI

@Scagfreedom48z+ 
Yes! I'm happy to say that several areas germinated over the last month or so. It seems like some of my very late fall seeded mini renos continued to germinate beginning late winter. I dormant seeded all areas using the shotgun method (put enough lead into the air and you're bound to hit something). Some of the first dormant seeded areas are beginning to tiller, while I see new seed continuing to pop. I'm anxious to get a blanket spray of Tenacity down, but have been trying to wait 30 days after the most recent seed has popped.


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## Chris LI

Busy/tough week between work and home, so I haven't accomplished much (allergies aren't helping either). I continued handpicking a few broadleaf and poa a with surveying greenup, which is looking better and thicker each day. We're had some rain and sun the last few days, which is conducive to spring growth, but I haven't kept track of how much.

@Green
I was busy out of the office most of the day at a seminar, only to return to check my work e-mail to discover the vendor who who suggested Apple SGL PRG, did not submit it on his list of PRG seed he is carrying, so I may have to settle for something else. It's not what I was looking to hear. It looks like a phone call is in order.


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> I gently ran the file along the cutting edge on the top/outer side (trying to maintain the same angle as you would with a mower blade), and then a couple of very gentle cleanup passes along the flat side that slides along the other half of the scissors, to clean up any burrs. The first photo is along the cutting edge, and the second is the cleanup pass.


Thanks. Do you know if these tools--e.g. the cutting surfaces--and I guess the moving parts--are supposed to be oiled? I usually wipe them down with a damp paper towel after using to get rid of the grass stains and buildup.

My PR seed was ordered Monday. They said they would ship Tuesday (I guess PM). So, it looks like it should be here Monday.


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gently ran the file along the cutting edge on the top/outer side (trying to maintain the same angle as you would with a mower blade), and then a couple of very gentle cleanup passes along the flat side that slides along the other half of the scissors, to clean up any burrs. The first photo is along the cutting edge, and the second is the cleanup pass.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. Do you know if these tools--e.g. the cutting surfaces--and I guess the moving parts--are supposed to be oiled? I usually wipe them down with a damp paper towel after using to get rid of the grass stains and buildup.
> 
> My PR seed was ordered Monday. They said they would ship Tuesday (I guess PM). So, it looks like it should be here Monday.
Click to expand...

I spray all my pruners, shears, etc. down with WD-40. A light household or machine oil would probably be better and take longer to evaporate, but it's more convenient to use WD-40. If I have a severely rusted blade I'll spray it and wrap it with a paper towel and plastic bag.

Great to hear your PRG seed is on its way. I'm going over to help a friend continue with repairing what his landscaper wrecked some time in the next few days and might grab some of the PRG he has lying around.


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## Chris LI

Between work, rain, birthdays and allergies/cold/flu-like symptoms, I didn't get to do much this week. I'm overdue for a mow (last mow was 4/12) and the urea kicked in nicely.

My sister in law gave me a Fiskars weeder yesterday as a belated b day present. I tested it out after dinner tonight and like it. It pulled out dandelions, poa a and other weeds pretty well.


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## pennstater2005

Ok. That thing is sweet! Might look into one.


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## Green

@Chris LI, I ended up purchasing not only the Karma and Fiesta 4, but also some Apple SGL (thanks for the recommendation) from another supplier. I like to have at least 3 cultivars at a time when doing major reseeding.


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> @Chris LI, I ended up purchasing not only the Karma and Fiesta 4, but also some Apple SGL (thanks for the recommendation) from another supplier. I like to have at least 3 cultivars at a time when doing major reseeding.


Great to hear you found a nice tri-rye blend! I would like to hear/see the results.


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## Chris LI

The bad news...more rain so I couldn't mow (.91"). The good news...my level rake from R&R Products arrived today and I like the build quality. Now I need to get the lawn mowed to start drop some topsoil/sand, in order to start the process. :dancenana:


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I finally got my first full mow in at 2". The front and a little of the back had the second mow, while most of the back had its first mow. 11 days since the last cut and when I dropped urea, so I really needed to bag. I violated the 1/3 rule in a bad way, to the point of violating the 3/4 rule in about 1/2 the front yard. Got .10" of rain overnight to help with recovery.

Today, continued to help my friend with the fall overseed project. I had him pick up the dog poop and try out my new Fiskars weeder by pulling lots of poa a, and some hairy bittercress, while I was spiking and dropping seed. I topped it off with some Bioplex 5-3-1, Tenacity, and peat moss in bare and thin areas. It was interesting trying to spread fert in the seedling areas, while trying to avoid the lush donuts around the dog pee spots.


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## Chris LI

...a little late to the game with my organic Pre M, I dropped my corn gluten today at about 20 lbs/k in non-seeded areas and some Milo in seeded/weak areas in a very light sporadic drizzle.

By example, @pennstater2005 , encouraged me to post photos, warts and all. I took a bunch of photos, but didn't want to take up to much server space, so here's just a few from the collection. These were taken two days ago before and after a mow at 2". Overall, I think the fall blitz with winterizer, helped a lot. You will see the zoysia battle occurring on the hellstrip. I think Bewitched is making some headway. With the weather today, a blanket spray of Tenacity was out of the question, but is needed soon.


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## social port

that color is very nice in, what I'm guessing is, a side yard.
You have my sympathies with the zoysia. I warred with invasive bermuda for two years.


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## Green

My neighbor has Zoysia too. He showed me yesterday it's just starting to green up where the sun hits it in the afternoon. He has killed a lot of it over the years, and still has more to go.

I did more of my own pre-M today, and the local pro company that does my irrigation put down pre-M (Dimension) on the two neighbors today. We are in the orange "late" zone on GDD through Monday, and there is no crab germination according to base 50 yet. I work from hottest to coolest areas in case I end up late like this year. Also my Tenacity, being a post-M, would take care of any early crab.


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## Chris LI

@social port 
@Green 
Thanks for the support for the zoysia war. Since my 'poor man's irrigation' system doesn't have good coverage on that hellstrip, and it's very hard to time a reno in August with my busy work schedule, I haven't attempted a full reno in that location. I've scalped and overseeded it a few times, and timed fert applications to benefit the cool season grasses, which has helped (especially using urea in the fall blitz). I'm planning my first Tenacity blanket app soon, to take care of multiple weeds and hopefully the zoysia will be greened up enough to take a hit.

@social port 
The front side lawn you commented on is coming along after multiple setbacks (a buried RV to the axle in a 2" rain storm, courtesy of my brother in law) and contractors truck and trailer (without permission). That was a full TTTF reno in fall of 2016, where half of it was zoysia. I nuked it one day and seeded it the next day. I overseeded it the next spring and fall with TTTF/KBG and straight KBG thereafter (mostly Bewitched, and added Mazama/Beyond this fall and Feb dormant seed).

No work on lawn yesterday with rain. I just watched my CG get watered in with 1.30" of rain.


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## Green

@Chris LI, for hellstrips that bake in full sun, I kind of like the idea of Zoysia. Only issue is that it's totally brown almost 7 months of the year here. I just walked by one today, and it's starting to green up.

But for Tenacity, they suggest starting in July or even August, I believe, when it's starting to store up carbs. There are some threads on this site I think.


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## pennstater2005

Chris LI said:


> ...a little late to the game with my organic Pre M, I dropped my corn gluten today at about 20 lbs/k in non-seeded areas and some Milo in seeded/weak areas in a very light sporadic drizzle.
> 
> By example, pennstater2005 , encouraged me to post photos, warts and all. I took a bunch of photos, but didn't want to take up to much server space, so here's just a few from the collection. These were taken two days ago before and after a mow at 2". Overall, I think the fall blitz with winterizer, helped a lot. You will see the zoysia battle occurring on the hellstrip. I think Bewitched is making some headway. With the weather today, a blanket spray of Tenacity was out of the question, but is needed soon.


I think it's coming along! Take your time with it. Those tougher areas give us something to do.

Without weeds I think I'd be bored :lol:


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## Chris LI

Due to still being a little under the weather, I waited for the lawn to dry out from yesterday's rain and got a mow in at 2", during the late afternoon. This was my second full mow and first mulch mow. The ole Gator blade did a nice job. I'm really liking this new lower HOC. The density is noticeably increasing, and the 2" isn't highlighting the unevenness of the lawn, as I thought it would.

I took out my good manual hedge clippers (Corona) to trim the two late reno areas for the second time (I forgot to include it in the journal entry on Tuesday). I didn't want to run the mower wheels through these areas, yet.
I'm curious, have any of you other certifiable lawn nuts done this?

My main front lawn is a NoMix with predominant kbg due to multiple overseeds and after 4 days since the last mow, I stayed within the 1/3 rule. However, the TTTF/KBG mix on the other side of the front is growing faster, so I violated the 1/3 rule and lost some color. Last week the TTTF/KBG mix was darker. Now the main front with lots o' kbg is darker.

I'm trying to hold off on more N for a bit, but might hit a few key spots with urea: zoysia battle (to get some quick N to the Bewitched) before the zoysia fully comes out of dormancy; mini-renos (late ones need N); and the beat up area through the side gate.


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## Chris LI

Dropped .25 lbs N of urea tonight before the rain to spoonfeed. Went slightly heavier in mini renos and in weak/damaged areas.


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## Chris LI

4/30 Early morning we received .23" of rain.

Today I finally edged and trimmed with the Echo PAS edger and trimmer attachments for the first time this year. Then mowed front and back holding at 2". After 5 days since last mow, the main front mostly kbg lawn was at the perfect height for cutting but the three side front TTTF/KBG was a smidge high. Both were really thick. Density is really good right now. Some areas in the back were a good height for mowing, while others were a little high and low. I think I went a little too heavy with urea in the high areas.


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## Chris LI

Did nothing...1.04" of rain and worked today. Not a lost day, in my opinion. However, I will need to mow soon.


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## Chris LI

First sunny day in several days. I mowed front and back at 2", which is becoming difficult to keep up with. 5 days between mowings again, which is pushing it. Good news, the Tenacity/FeATURE combo I sprayed last Friday is kicking in with a little deeper blue/ green color. Also, the Zoysia and bentgrass are taking a hit. I'm also seeing progress in the mini reno areas and overseed/drill and fill near the Norway maple. Bad news, along with the poa a bleaching is a lot more triv indication than i thought.  
The poa a and poa t wars have begun! :twisted:


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## Chris LI

Whitening is a little more pronounced today. Yesterday, I noticed the difference in how the whitening effect is different between triv and annual. The entire annua plant is lightened up some, while the blades of the triv have whitened significantly (more than the poa a), but the stems of the triv have stayed greener.

Today, it is a much more stark contrast. Time will tell. All I know is that I have a lot more triv than I realized, and we all know that battle is next to impossible to win, in the short term.


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## Chris LI

I know I had both an annua and triv issue in my backyard, but this is ridiculous! I really need to do a reno in this part of the backyard (upper 2/3 of photo-lower portion is a Bewitched reno with Mazama/Beyond dormant seed after building the deck last summer) .


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## ruxie88

Chris LI said:


> I know I had both an annua and triv issue in my backyard, but this is ridiculous! I really need to do a reno in this part of the backyard (upper 2/3 of photo-lower portion is a Bewitched reno with Mazama/Beyond dormant seed after building the deck last summer) .


Protect that Bewitch


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## Chris LI

It was mostly a gardening day. Last night, I finished planting the front beds with annuals as well as planted a bunch of pots and hanging baskets. I finished weeding the beds and dropped 25 bags of mulch, which took a lot longer, because I was 3-4 weeks late in doing it since just about all the perennials were up and I added the annuals.

I squeezed a little lawn stuff in with some Hydra Hume DG on high traffic/weak spots and .25 N worth of spoonfed urea over all areas, as a light drizzle developed.

I topped it off with pulling the tarp off the patio furniture and setting it up on the deck. Then I swept/blew the debris off the deck and grabbed some Advil.


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## Scagfreedom48z+

Chris LI said:


> I know I had both an annua and triv issue in my backyard, but this is ridiculous! I really need to do a reno in this part of the backyard (upper 2/3 of photo-lower portion is a Bewitched reno with Mazama/Beyond dormant seed after building the deck last summer) .


I hear you man. Seems like we are all getting crushed with POA A&T this year up in the NE. This has to have something to do with the relentless amounts of rain that we have been getting the last couple of spring and fall seasons. Major headache


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## Green

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> Seems like we are all getting crushed with POA A&T this year up in the NE. This has to have something to do with the relentless amounts of rain that we have been getting the last couple of spring and fall seasons. Major headache


I guess now we know what it's like in the PNW...


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> Scagfreedom48z+ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like we are all getting crushed with POA A&T this year up in the NE. This has to have something to do with the relentless amounts of rain that we have been getting the last couple of spring and fall seasons. Major headache
> 
> 
> 
> I guess now we know what it's like in the PNW...
Click to expand...

Good point.


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## Chris LI

@Green 
I'm not looking to plaugerize your signature. 
However, the last line seems to be very appropriate, considering the state of my lawn. May I have permission to use the last line in your signature? I say this tongue and cheek and as a compliment. It's quite accurate and a sad reality. I can tell that your experience and wisdom led you to include that statement.

As an aside, I think a lot of what whitened up was a weed. Some areas are just about completely bleached. Could those be the true triv? I can easily ID the annua, but don't want to over nuke areas that may not be weed. Also, I went heavy on the Tenacity concentration, as I could not readily find my measuring device and overconcentrated the mix due to a different measuring device. I realized it before applying and could not dilute further due to the capacity of my pump sprayer. I decided to lightly spray to cover more square feet to approach a larger area, to reduce the amount of AI per acre, rating. This wasn't enough, so I still overapplied.

I will be in a holding pattern for Tenacity, for the meantime. Any experience is appreciated.


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## Green

@Chris LI, no problem. I'd just ask that you change the wording very slightly, just so no one wonders why we have the exact same signature and then starts googling it to see if it's an actual thing (which I fear it is based on that thread where people keep posting photos of what we believe may be unimproved Triv). Actually, a while back, someone here thought I was tgreen based on my signature. I had never seen his videos before that.

It's possible what you have whitening is Triv. If there's just a little bit intermixed, Tenacity now plus Summer heat later can keep it from spreading. The problem is when we have a 6+ month period with lots of rain, and it goes crazy.

I would try to ID your whitened grass. If it's a Poa but doesn't appear to KBG or annua, there's a good chance. Check for Bentgrass and more Zoysia as well. There are other things that whiten, too. I find most KBG has a low amount of whitening; fescues and PR get more white.

I'd urge you not to let up on Tenacity apps if you're planning multiple apps. Hit it again before it outgrows the white. Otherwise, you're starting from scratch again. I think you're safe up to the 6oz/A rate once with TTTF and KBG and the 3-4 as the followup. I never purposely go over 5, though. Once I did 8-10 accidentally and killed my good grass (not a measuring error or mixing error--long story).


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## Chris LI

@Green 
Thank you for you're detailed response. I haven't had the time to ID all of my whitened areas (which is extremely pronounced, right now, compared to the adjacent Bewitched... it's like night and day).

I'm definitely battling Zoysia and Bentgrass in the front and triv in the back. The triv ID is what really took the wind out of my sails. Funny you mention @tgreen , because his video helped me to positively ID triv, using the ligule. I was 99% sure before seeing the video and my heart sank when I watched the video. Thanks @tgreen for the video. I know that it will help many out there.

I will try at least another follow up Tenacity app, but might do two separate apps; one tank mixed with Triclopyr to reduce whitening of desirable established turf (which would help with some clover, too); and the other without it for mini reno areas. I think the Triclopyr would be too tough on the newer grass. I might add FeATURE to both mixes or do a separate blanket spray of FeATURE on a different day, if it ever stops raining!


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I did the trim, blow, mow routine. I couldn't handle scraping 1.5, 5 gallon pails of clippings off my deck anymore, so I had to bag. It's been so wet that mulching has been essentially useless. The silver lining to the deck cleaning issue is that weed seeds were also stuck to the deck, so the weren't being recycled to the lawn.

I'm still hanging in there with 2" HOC, as I love the density! I'm rethinking my goal of 3" for the summer with 3.5" for the 3 hottest weeks in August. This is lower than last year (3.5" and 4", respectively). I may go even lower and try 2.5" for the summer with 3" if, necessary.


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## Chris LI

Tenacity bleached areas were much whiter. However, between clipping the tips off with the mower and the the "good grass" being lightened by mowing, color is evening out a little. Maybe it's time for a spot spray.


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## social port

Chris LI said:


> I'm still hanging in there with 2" HOC, as I love the density! I'm rethinking my goal of 3" for the summer with 3.5" for the 3 hottest weeks in August. This is lower than last year (3.5" and 4", respectively). I may go even lower and try 2.5" for the summer with 3" if, necessary.


I keep my fescue at 4.5 throughout the summer. However, I thought I would mix things up this year. After a few bad starts, I've landed on the plan of cutting just a few strips of fescue at 2.5. I'm going to try to keep that going all summer just to see what happens.


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## Green

Chris, not sure how much TTTF you have, but I feel we can typically get by with 3.5 inches in Summer in our area for irrigated Tall Fescue turf that is managed with fungicides (I use biofungicide for almost everything because I feel the synthetics have too many downsides). Maybe 3.25 or even 3 inches will work, too, and have less disease pressure as well...? I typically cut everything at 3.75 inches in July, August, and September. But with my new mower, I'll be a touch lower...3.625 in, which will help the water streams clear the irrigation heads better where I have in-ground irrigation.

If I were further South, with more days in a row over 85 or 90 degrees at any given time, like SP, I would be mowing even higher.

I rarely see lawns mowed above 3 inches. And during the heat, mine often looks a lot better due to the extra cutting height versus lawns cut at 2 or 2.5 inches.

I'm already at 3.25 inches to maximize root growth.

Good luck with it. I think the amount of heat this year will influence how it goes and what height you end up at.

You do stuff with sports fields at work, right? What height are those mowed at?


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## Chris LI

@social port 
@Green 
In the past (for many years), I have followed a similar HOC as you, to encourage deeper rooting and drought tolerance. As I mentioned, I would be way up there for most of the summer at 3.5+ and 4+. I say "+" because I used a mulching blade with no lift (Ninja), which would slightly lay over the grass to give a smidge more height. However, last year I started at 2.5 as usual and went up to those heights, keeping the Gator blade on for the summer, due to moisture and maple seed pods (poly noses), with the bag on most of the time. The very last cut at 2.5 in the spring had incredible density and color, but I raised the height as usual, and wondered if I could have pulled it off, when I thought about it throughout the winter.

Over the winter, I was reading about all the "reel low" folks here, and decided to try for the best of both worlds at 2.5", so I started at 2". The TTTF didn't like it at first, so I thought I would crutch it through April. Now, it seems to have adjusted to the lower HOC, so I'm holding firm on the 2", so far in May. I have a very busy week coming up at work, and might miss a mow, so 2.5" may be in the near future for me.

@Green 
Yes, I have two ballfields at work, which receive only basic fertilization, solid tine aereation, and overseeding. We cut them at 2".


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## Chris LI

Chris LI said:


> @social port
> @Green
> In the past (for many years), I have followed a similar HOC as you, to encourage deeper rooting and drought tolerance. As I mentioned, I would be way up there for most of the summer at 3.5+ and 4+. I say "+" because I used a mulching blade with no lift (Ninja), which would slightly lay over the grass to give a smidge more height. However, last year I started at 2.5 as usual and went up to those heights, keeping the Gator blade on for the summer, due to moisture and maple seed pods (poly noses), with the bag on most of the time. The very last cut at 2.5 in the spring had incredible density and color, but I raised the height as usual, and wondered if I could have pulled it off, when I thought about it throughout the winter.
> 
> Over the winter, I was reading about all the "reel low" folks here, and decided to try for the best of both worlds at 2.5", so I started at 2". The TTTF didn't like it at first, so I thought I would crutch it through April. Now, it seems to have adjusted to the lower HOC, so I'm holding firm on the 2", so far in May. I have a very busy week coming up at work, and might miss a mow, so 2.5" may be in the near future for me.
> 
> @Green
> Yes, I have two ballfields at work, which receive only basic fertilization, solid tine aereation, and overseeding. We cut them at 2".


I forgot to mention, one other very important change I made last year was to up my mowing frequency to 2x per week, when it needed it (mostly spring). I believe that made a significant difference in turf quality (color and density). I'm trying to stay on that schedule this year too. I think it goes a long way, as golf courses do it and their lesser fertilized/pest apps on fairways, and they are able to maintain healthy turf with less inputs. I have my guys on a Tuesday & Friday mowing schedule for the ballfields.


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## Green

@Chris LI, cool ideas.

I also believe in not mowing during heat/drought, and I try to time a mow right before a rain when that happens and it becomes time to mow. I'd rather break the 1/3 rule eventually, than keep mowing it through the hot and dry period, and make it stressed and brown before it needs to go that direction.


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## Chris LI

I haven't posted much in the last couple of weeks because work has taken over as it always does during the last two weeks of May.  Anyway, I'm logging an update before I forget what I was able to squeeze in during those two weeks.

5/23 Mowed @2.5" (raised HOC because I missed a mow)
5/28 Mowed @2.5"(too high to go back to 2")
5/30 Mowed @ 2" w/ trim and blow. I dropped 5-3-1 on my friend's lawn.

I never had a chance to do a second Tenacity app, so it's on hold.


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## Chris LI

Dropped .5 lbs N of Bioplex 5-3-1


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## Chris LI

No rain since N drop. I needed to mow yesterday, but other things came up. I switched over from the Gator blade to Ninja blade to mulch at 2", so I didn't pick up any fert. All was great until I found one wire halo flower stake and dinged up my blade.


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## Chris LI

I just had time to inspect/admire the lawn this morning, after receiving 0.14" of rain last night. I see an area in the front which needs a little more N (color is slightly off). I'll probably use the hand spreader with some 5-3-1. If I have time and weather permits, I hope to accomplish that and a bit more tomorrow. We'll see what happens.


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## Chris LI

Friday 6/7
Trim, mow (@2"), blow. I was in a rush and had a negative interaction with a silica based vertical panel.  
I wasn't in the mood to put the striping kit on, 
after that episode. This was not the day to enjoy the mow. However, I did have time to drop some BioPlex.

Noted today at 2". 4 day internal is working for me know. I'm still loving the almost "reel low" cutting heights and density. I may have to raise HOC soon, if the weather warms up. Received about an inch of rain yesterday-today.


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> Friday 6/7
> Trim, mow (@2"), blow. I was in a rush and had a negative interaction with a silica based vertical panel.


That sucks. 

But Silica? You mean the sand-man?? :lol:
You sure don't mean silicon...or even maybe silicone as the case may be... :nod:


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## Chris LI

Aww naw, you put me in a predicament. I'll fess up...I broke a dang winder with a weed whacker.

I'm usually careful and make sure the rotation of the head throws debris away from that area, but I was rushing the other day. Not one of my best moments. :roll:


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## Green

A window...yikes. Never would've guessed that. Hopefully your own. Did it throw a rock?

Btw, what character you doing an impression of with that accent? Humor is always good.

I actually thought you meant you had a negative interaction with a neighbor due to being in a rush.


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## Chris LI

Yes and yes.

No character in particular...just paying homage to half of my roots, being honest about my miscues, adding a little humor for something stupid that I did, because I know better. Even the best of us do dumb things from time to time. Hopefully, a reader will have this stick in their mind, and maybe avoid a similar situation.

Nope. Neighbors are cool. I have a retired lady who has been admiring and asking questions. I'm pointing her in the right direction with the basics. She's interested in walking the neighborhood with my mother-in-law, who lives with us.


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## Green

All right. Think about something pleasant tonight. Have a good night.


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## Chris LI

Rain Gauge app on my phone and my home weather station rain gauge are in great disagreement in how much rain we received today.

Rain Gauge app = 1.64
Weather station = 0.46

From my judgment, the home weather station is correct, as it typically is very close to bonafide records.

I'll be keeping an eye on this.

On a separate note, Bioplex and Hydra Hume seem to have kicked with the rain on Monday. I also hose sprayed some old stock Ironite 6-2-1 on Saturday (I bought it on Friday for the hose applicator bottle to use for apps of kelp, iron SLS, etc.) The bottle leaks a little at the spray nozzle, so I bought the Hudson hose sprayer on Amazon.

Today's rain is hopefully icing on the cake. Temps have been comfortably below normal (60-62 today). The turf still looks pretty good.

Kbg is still holding out against the zoysia on the hellstrip with the cool temps.

Triclopyr is next on the agenda for clover.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday,

I spot sprayed clover with CCO.

Laid out 16 stepping stones and dug in 6 to recess them (and somewhat level). Headed out now to continue before work.


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## Chris LI

I set several more stepping stones in, but I'm starting to hit tree roots, so the process is slower.


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## Chris LI

I got jammed up at work yesterday, and missed a second mow. With 0.81" of rain so far today, and rain forecasted for most of the week, I'll be behind the 8 ball with mowing, and wil have to raise my HOC to 2.5", and will still probably violate the 1/3 rule in a major way. On the upside, the Bioplex kicked in with some dark blue/green results.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> I got jammed up at work yesterday, and missed a second mow. With 0.81" of rain so far today, and rain forecasted for most of the week, I'll be behind the 8 ball with mowing, and wil have to raise my HOC to 2.5", and will still probably violate the 1/3 rule in a major way. On the upside, the Bioplex kicked in with some dark blue/green results.


I feel like that about trimming. I had areas that were high between my seeded areas on the side going into this rain.

Never heard of Bioplex until your posts.


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> Never heard of Bioplex until your posts.


I didn't know about it until one of my turf suppliers mentioned it when I was looking for something to aid with new seeding and building OM on dead/wear spots on my ballfields. The mfg. has a few different varieties of fert with the BioPlex recipe (biosolids/sea plant extract/ humic acid/ etc.), in the BioPlex/Bio Basics line. The 5-3-1 contains about 100% BioPlex. Other varieties in the line are mixed with varying amounts of synthetic fertilizer. It works very well, and I like to tell others about good products of any type (i.e. Shave Secret, shave oil...but that's for another time and place). However, if there's a run on BioPlex because of this info being out there (i.e. Milo), and I can't get any more, than I'll regret it. :roll:


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## Chris LI

Since I missed two mows, I had to cut today with wet grass, because I was on day 9. The Bioplex kicked in nicely. I had to bag and raise the HOC to 2.5". I also switched out the Ninja blade for a sharpened Gator blade, for better suction. I sing trimmed and blew off the trimmings, leaves, etc. before mowing. We also had 0.54" of rain from the night before, and some additional rain after I mowed (0.68" total). Even though it was quite wet, the quality of cut was good. Here's some before/after photos.

Before





After





The CCO is starting to kick in on the clover.


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## Budstl

I hate having to mow when the grass is wet, but sometimes we gotta do it. Lawn is looking good. Without that pic of the clover, lawn looks it doesn't have any weeds


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## Chris LI

@Budstl 
Thanks. I really try not to spray much and have typically hand picked/lived with some weeds, but the clover tends to take over, so it has to go. I expect that I will need a second and possibly third app, which I hope to get in, if it ever stops raining.


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## Chris LI

Mowed yesterday, taking it back down to 2". It's growing like wildfire! I took a risk at lowering it .5" and violated the 1/2 rule, blowing right past the 1/3 rule, figuring that I would be ok for recovery, with anticipated rain on the way at 3 am. The rain never came last night, so I was sweating it a bit until rain came down on the way to work. I got home and checked the rain gauge, and was pleasantly surprised to see 0.38"; probably ther best case scenario, since the temps stayed in the 70's, which is much lower than the 80+ predicted temps.

I'm definitely considering PGR for next year.


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## Green

Yeah, that's a good situation before the heat with 0.38 in of rain. We got 0.2 in here. I'm going to have to water this week.


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## Chris LI

@Green 
Good luck! This is the time of year when it usually starts to get dicey for us, with humidity and needing to water. I'm already dreading August.


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## Togo

@Chris LI do you source the Bioplex locally?

Those after shots of the lawn look great!


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## Chris LI

@Togo 
Yes. I bought it from All Pro Horticulture in Lindenhurst, on E. Gates Ave. I purchased some last year and am feeding off the last of it. I didn't see the 5-3-1 version on their list this year, but that doesn't mean they don't have it.


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## Togo

Chris LI said:


> I bought it from All Pro Horticulture in Lindenhurst, on E. Gates Ave. I purchased some last year and am feeding off the last of it. I didn't see the 5-3-1 version on their list this year, but that doesn't mean they don't have it.


Awesome. Thanks. I wanna go take a look at their site.


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## Chris LI

@Togo 
PM me if you are interested in more info.


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## Chris LI

It's been a roller coaster at work, lately. Due to a big project at work, I had had to work some long hours and didn't have days of for a couple of weeks, so I'm behind, again.

I was able to maintain mowing about 1x per week at 2" (no trimming/edging), until I had to raise HOC to 2.5" due to heat/drought stress on Tuesday's cut (I didn't take much off the top in some areas).

I've been pounding the turf with water 50/50, poor man's irrigation system/hand watering. I didn't realize that I didn't have my end caps on all of my zones and some broken heads, spike based, Ys, etc., so my 'system' is somewhat functional. I have been hitting my non-irrigated areas and hot spots with my Underhill RainPro showerhead nozzle and Yardsmith (Lowes) pistol grip fire hose nozzle. They move a lot of water. Man, the RainPro really puts it down!

I have also been trying out my Hudson hose end sprayer with my molasses/kelp/baby shampoo concoction and just received my liquid yucca from Kelp4Less. In conjunction with the watering and raised HOC, the turf is bouncing back. The 0.41" of welcomed rain last night, should help out a bit, too. My TTTF really doesn't like to but cut at 2". I was hoping that I could keep it that low to encourage the kbg to eventually take over, in time.

Backlogged in projects, I worked on my paver patio yesterday, and hope to get enough done today, to squeeze a mow in before work tomorrow.


----------



## Chris LI

Squeezed in a mow at 2.5" without trimming or edging, after work. Pounded the lawn with water, trying to stave off dormancy in a lot of the lawn, before high temps/humidity over the next several days. Weed pressure is increasing and I'm gambling with fungus with watering at dusk, but don't have too many options at this point.


----------



## Chris LI

Got 0.49" of rain last night and 0.02 this morning for 0.51" total. I fought with much frustration to apply some organics before the heat wave with my newly acquired Hudson hose end sprayer (kelp/fish meal, blackstrap molasses, micronutrients, yucca, and baby shampoo). It clogs, and it's junk! I may drill out the orifice at some point, but this baby is benched. I need a higher volume, better quality sprayer, so I shot the lock off my wallet and purchased a Blue Mule 50B tonight, with the hopes of more success before the end of the summer. FYI- I purchased directly off their website to avoid taxes on Amazon.


----------



## Chris LI

Received about 1.6" of rain Monday night, with 0.4" in 1/2 hour.

Mulch mowed tonight at 2.5".

I tested my Blue Mule sprayer that I received early this morning (Thank you Fed Ex) with water and played around with metering jets. I tried the orange and switched to the pale pink (mainly because they were in the ranges that wanted to try, and I could see them just after sunset).

Using the pale pink jet, I applied about 4-5 oz of Southern Ag Kelp Green over 1200-1300 sq ft to add a little NPK. Without being scientific, it took about 7-8 minutes (the baseline was with no jet, which emptied the tank in 30 seconds). I will probably move up a couple of jets heavier, to speed the process.

Without giving a full review, so far I am impressed with the quality and versatility of this hose end sprayer (Compact Spray-All 50B).


----------



## Chris LI

I forgot to throw up a few photos for reference. The lawn is recovering from the scorching it received last week. The worst days were Saturday and Sunday @ 95* and 98*, respectively. It's amazing how close up photos reveal the warts that are disguised with 'drive by' photos. My 'hell strips' are living up to their name. I definitely believe my kbg handles drought better than my TTTF. This may seem counterintuitive to traditional belief, but it is easier for me to keep my kbg from going into dormancy than the TTTF. I have experienced this and made mental notes over the last few years. Also, I noticed that the TTTF has a much harder time coming out of dormancy than the kbg. These photos demonstrate that, as the main lawn is kbg, while the front side lawn next to the RV is mostly TTTF.


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## SNOWBOB11

Nice stripes. It's interesting to hear that your KBG handles heat stress better than your fescue. Once the rains come back I'm sure the stressed areas will green back up no problem.


----------



## social port

Chris LI said:


>


It is difficult to see warts in this picture!
That is your KBG, right?
I'm also observing impressive summer performance from my bluegrass. Compared to my fescue, it is thicker and seemingly disease-free.


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## pennstater2005

Agree on the KBG heat tolerance. Mine has some varying fungus but mostly green.


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## Chris LI

@SNOWBOB11 
Thanks. I hope it comes back. I didn't see any lesions, so it just looks like it went into dormancy. If any of those areas are toast, they will be overseeded anyway with kbg.

@social port 
Thanks. Not too many warts in that area. I only got one shot of Tenacity down in the spring after the fall shot took out some bentgrass, but the bentgrass wormed its way back.

That area is mostly kbg, after many overseeds, but no reno. There is some nomix and about 10 years ago, some Watersaver RTF was overseeded, but I crowded it out with kbg and fertility.

@pennstater2005 
I probably should have put some Serenade down awhile ago. I don't use chemical fungicides, so I try to avoid bad watering practices, but that wasn't the case during the heatwave. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## Chris LI

Edged, trimmed and mulch mowed @ 2.5", yesterday. I finally dropped some granular Bioplex. Since I missed the early July drop, I went light ~0.25 lbs. N per K, to not push too much growth in the peak of the summer. The color isn't where it should be and temps aren't predicted to crack 90* at all during the next week, so I figured that I'm safe. I skipped the side by the RV, since what is green looks pretty good and what is brown, is probably toast. I had been spraying N in the form Southern Ag Kelp Green, so it is definitely getting some N. I sprayed baby shampoo to try to loosen up the soil. I did however, drop some on the hellstrip in that area. I also pounded everything with water.


----------



## Green

I never applied some of my Spring N, either...0.2 lb N from Milorganite out of the total 1 lb N I use each year. Will be applying it next week hopefully. This has a been a very long and drawn out "Spring" fertilization app for some of us!


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> I never applied some of my Spring N, either...0.2 lb N from Milorganite out of the total 1 lb N I use each year. Will be applying it next week hopefully. This has a been a very long and drawn out "Spring" fertilization app for some of us!


 :thumbup: 
I hate to say that it feels good that someone else is in the same boat, but I look to it as an educational opportunity to compare current observations and results of action or inaction. I like the fact that TLF has grown to be a supportive community (and family, so to speak) with respect to lawn and garden care.

On a separate note, I forgot to include an interesting regional observation. The other day when you received two rounds of rain totalling somewhere around 0.75", I only received 0.03". Hence, me loading up on the watering. Geographically speaking, we're relatively close, and I was tracking lightning strikes/storms for work related purposes and noticed they rolled by north of us, but relatively close, without rain. Go figure.

Today, I watered the section with my Norway maple, where the turf thins out. Between applying extra water, drill and fill technique and some foliar apps of fertilizer, this area is slightly better than past years. I will have to wait until the end of the summer to determine if it would be considered noticeably better.


----------



## Chris LI

I forgot to mention that I applied some Roots HP Bat Guano 0-4-3 by watering can to my vegetables, my wife's new hostas/lavender/mosquito plant bed (next to the deck), and my high traffic Bewitched patch next to the fire pit.


----------



## Green

@Chris LI, how's it going in Lawn-Gyland?


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> @Chris LI, how's it going in Lawn-Gyland?


Thank you for asking. We're hanging in there. I fell behind with updates, with spending a lot of time at work. I mulch mowed last Friday at 2.5" after 8 days just to get it done with no trimming, edging or blowing. No additional fertilizer, but I have kept up the watering. Temps dropped a little over the weekend, so the turf is recovering a bit more. However, the worst areas in the front side by the RV are toast, especially on the hellstrip. Weed pressure is very high in that area. The main front which is primarily kbg, is faring much better. The backyard is doing much better with the additional water. The shaded areas aren't thinning out as much as in the past, but the trouble spot under the Norway maple has thinned out almost as bad as in the past. Oh, I had just enough time yesterday to mulch mow just the front. I haven't had much time to check out many journals (including yours) and CS posts, but hope to do so in a couple of days. How are you doing? I will check your thread for details. I hope you're seeing some relief from the summer conditions, too.


----------



## Green

Good to hear. Yeah, it's definitely been cooler the past 2 weeks. It even went down to 59 one or two nights recently.

Still just trying to keep up with mowing and all the other stuff (sounds easier than it is, right?). The low-input area got overgrown at one point, and I side discharged it. Now, 2 more cuts later and there is still a bit of dead grass visible. I happened to watch this video at the same time the whole thing happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e57aMsw27Dc . Still not sure what a "Ginja" is (or if it's his last name or nickname; but he's a member here), but useful and frightening, nonetheless. Also trying to get Milorganite down (that bit I never did in the Spring plus a bit more) and various products sprayed, etc.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Good to hear. Yeah, it's definitely been cooler the past 2 weeks. It even went down to 59 one or two nights recently.
> 
> Still not sure what a "Ginja" is (or if it's his last name or nickname; but he's a member here), but useful and frightening, nonetheless. Also trying to get Milorganite down (that bit I never did in the Spring plus a bit more) and various products sprayed, etc.


I'm looking forward to seeing 59* at night, but the ocean keeps us a little warmer than your area. For me, that temperature is the real sign of relief for the lawn and garden.

I think the name "Ginja" is a combo of "ginger" and "ninja". The red beard gives it away.

Definitely get the Milo down! Just make sure you get some water down. I'm seeing greenup and thickening already. We're almost there, with September around the corner.


----------



## Chris LI

Trim, blow, mow @ 2.5" with bag on due to:
1. Many brown leaves
2. Lots of wild grapes I weed whacked which were hanging over a wild cherry at the edge of the property and blocking the path of a sprinkler
3. Lots of poly noses from the Norway maple
4. Stand up turf with recent higher humidity

Watered front heavily (southern exposure) and some in back by Norway maple.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> I think the name "Ginja" is a combo of "ginger" and "ninja". The red beard gives it away.
> 
> Definitely get the Milo down! Just make sure you get some water down. I'm seeing greenup and thickening already. We're almost there, with September around the corner.


Omg, I think you're right. I kind of got the ninja part. I don't know why I thought maybe it some Korean word or something. But then I was like, no, can't be. I would have pronounced it "Gin-juh". Sounds more like "ginger" with a Boston or Queens NYC accent the way he says it.

Btw, I actually pronounce "Long Island" as "Lawn-Gyland" in real life. It's sort of like LCN doing his Chicago accent. One of the neighbors (who does the best edging job I've ever seen anywhere) is originally from LI.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Btw, I actually pronounce "Long Island" as "Lawn-Gyland" in real life. It's sort of like LCN doing his Chicago accent. One of the neighbors (who does the best edging job I've ever seen anywhere) is originally from LI.


I tried to lose mine in college when I went to school in PA, and did a pretty good job. A lot of folks couldn't figure out where I was from. I know I still have it, but it's not too pronounced, like some folks here. I have fun once in awhile exaggerating it. "How you doin'?" I do find it quite amusing (and a practical teaching tactic) how you use the spelling and phonetics to emulate the proper pronunciation to receive approval from us locals (and us lawn nuts, too). :thumbup:


----------



## Green

Yeah. That's like my cousin in reverse. Born and grew up in CT like me, went to school in MA and moved to RI. About 15 years ago, we noticed he talked like a native RI-lander. Seems to be losing that now to an extent even though he still lives there.

Did you by any chance have family originally from Southwestern PA or the area around West Virginia? I was trying to place an accent that you did on here once.

I do speak pretty neutrally/clearly when I want to. But I do have a few versions of CT accent that creep in at times. Then again, CT accents don't deviate all that much from neautral pronunciation in the first place. And I think that comes across in my phrasing when I write, too (less shorthand in general as well).

There was this story I read once where a guy from CT was hitch-hiking in Australia. The person who drove him said, "US, between Boston and NY". Nailed that.

I think most people in the country know this, but it's Cuh-NED-a-kit. I guess it's pronounced like a New-Yorker would. None of this Connect-I-cut nonsense, though that's a great way to remember the spelling, like my 4th-grade teacher taught us...2 men on the top of a telephone pole. One says "You connect, I cut." (Which always throws me that NY's power company is like Conn-Ed while ours is (now) largely Eversource...) Used to be CL&P...just "clip" the lines...


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> Did you by any chance have family originally from Southwestern PA or the area around West Virginia? I was trying to place an accent that you did on here once.


Not a bad guess. My Dad's family is from SW Virginia with some from over the mountain in WV, and others in NC and TN. My Mom's family is from Brooklyn; interesting combination.

I get my love for the outdoors and everything green mostly from my Dad, although my Mom loved her flowers.


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday, I continued spot watering some areas and applied Kelp Green and Essential 1-0-1 to all of the front yard at the labeled rate. Sprayed garlic juice for mosquitoes in the side yard and backyard.

Later in the day, I went over to my friend's house to help him with his lawn. I hadn't been there for awhile, so I spent a lot of time pulling about 5 - 5 gallon pails of crabgrass and goose grass. I noticed one of his irrigation zones was very dry. It turns out he lost the whole zone from his panel. We have some detective work to do. I dropped some 5-3-1 and sprayed some garlic juice in the backyard.


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> Sprayed garlic juice for mosquitoes in the side yard and backyard.


I have to do this...still haven't done the second app, and it wore off weeks ago. Did seem to help, though, about a week after applying swipes to every surface and tree branch I could reach.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sprayed garlic juice for mosquitoes in the side yard and backyard.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to do this...still haven't done the second app, and it wore off weeks ago. Did seem to help, though, about a week after applying swipes to every surface and tree branch I could reach.
Click to expand...

It's not a silver bullet, but definitely helps a lot. Mosquitoes don't like the sun and heat, just like we don't. They'll dehydrate just like us. Look for cool, shady places for them to hide during the day. Evergreens in particular, give them great cover. I hit my hemlocks, English ivy, Lily of the valley, Pachysandra, etc. and start with the perimeter of my backyard and work my way in with applying some to my lawn, to get good knock down. The lawn application will wash off with the next irrigation cycle, but it's worth it to spray some on the lawn.

A welcomed thunderstorm just rolled in an my rain gauge is going nuts. 0.27" in about 15 minutes and still going strong.


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## Chris LI

Rain lasted until about 2:45 am last night with 0.65" total.


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> Rain lasted until about 2:45 am last night with 0.65" total.


I think we got 0.05 inch. It was just raining with thunder and lightening now, too (small storm), but again, I don't think it's much. Welcome to Florida...I mean the Northeast. :lol:


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rain lasted until about 2:45 am last night with 0.65" total.
> 
> 
> 
> I think we got 0.05 inch. It was just raining with thunder and lightening now, too (small storm), but again, I don't think it's much. Welcome to Florida...I mean the Northeast. :lol:
Click to expand...

I wish we could "schedule" appropriate amounts of rain at appropriate times. I got stuck late at work about 40 minutes today and got stuck in traffic trying to outrun rain on the way home, to have it come down in buckets as I turned onto my street. 0.45" in 15 minutes and now sun and blue skies. My ambitions of a quick mow tonight before the rain never had a chance (Accuweather showed storms arriving around 9 pm tonight, when I checked late morning).

It's not the end of the world for me, but I hope anyone with renos didn't get killed too badly. This week is predicted to have unstable weather patterns with t-storms.

The silver lining is that the lawn is recovering with the recent rain. It looked pretty decent this morning at a quick glance on my way out the door. This also helped knock down soil temps a bit to aid root growth.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I squeezed in a bag mow @2.5" after work. I decided to bag for a few reasons:

1. Suck up remaining debris that wasn't picked up in the last mow, as well as new debris from recent storms. 
2. Stand up grass to reduce flop and matting. This would also help to improve air circulation to reduce the chances of fungus. A more vertical turf stand will also be shorter in length, so when I lower the deck to 2" (which will happen soon), I'll have less chance of violating the 1/3 rule.
3. Suck up weed seeds and remove anything that will reduce seed to soil contact for spot/overseeding.

I applied some liquid kelp/humic/molasses/Essential 1-0-1 by watering can to damaged areas near fire pit, maples, etc.

I also added some liquid kelp/humid to vegetable garden plants by watering can before a t-storm which delivered 0.43" at around 7 pm.


----------



## pennstater2005

How's everything looking going into fall?


----------



## Chris LI

@pennstater2005 Thanks for asking.

I think I'm doing a little better than past years. The "% living ground cover" as NTEP calls it, is visually higher and the quality is also better. The southern exposure front lawn has had some heat/drought stress, but the liquid/foliar apps I started using this year seem to have helped. The backyard is in even better shape.

I will probably only spot seed, instead of a full overseed, because the lawn is in better shape than usual. However, I do enjoy seeding on a larger scale, because I like to grow things in general. Work is still very busy this time of year, so it's hard to commit to a full reno, but I would love to do a 100% kbg reno.


----------



## Chris LI

Got hit by a wicked t-storm tonight around 9:30 and lost power. I'll have to check my backyard weather station for rain accumulation in the morning, assuming power is back.


----------



## Chris LI

Power was restored in the early am (2:30). However, many folks are unfortunately still out of power in the development behind me. Chainsaws were running up until about a half hour ago. I saw two large trees down; one leaning on wires and a large oak pinning wires to the ground.

We are quite fortunate to not be in that predicament, with only a small branch down.

I cut it up and picked up a whole lot of twigs today.


----------



## Green

Yeah, I saw it on the radar...the T-storms over you guys. Wow, you got hit hard.


----------



## Chris LI

I picked up more sticks today and moderately raked dead/thatchy areas and bag mowed at 2.5", to pick up more debris from the storm the other day. I hope to lower the HOC to 2", soon.


----------



## Chris LI

No lawn care today, but a milestone to note. We hit the first low of the fall last night below 60*. I woke up to 57* this morning. It's 65* now, so we'll see what tomorrow morning brings, with slightly warmer weather expected.


----------



## Chris LI

Planned mowing session got rained out today with 0.60" of rain.


----------



## Chris LI

Friday-Fluffed up areas still matted/dead with backpack blower and bag mowed at 2.5" on day 6 since last mow. Grass is recovering fairly well and growing fast enough to need 3-4 day mowing intervals. It was ready for lower HOC @2", but too high at day 6 to drop it for this mow.

We received only a little rain today (0.08), but I'm sure it is helpful, with temperatures in the 70's.


----------



## Chris LI

Tuesday, I done did it! I violated the 1/3 rule to lower my HOC to 2", and bag mowed, of course. I really like the density at 2", but needed to be at 2.5" for the summer. I used my Blue Mule hose end sprayer to apply some Essential Plus, kelp and humic acid to stressed areas. I love that thing!

Today, another bag mow @2" and spot filling/levelling with topsoil. I still need to buy some more topsoil before I spot seed, fert, etc. Hopefully, Dorian won't hit us with its outer bands tomorrow, so I can get the job done. I need to get my friend's yard done, too.


----------



## Chris LI

Monday 9/9 - bag mowed at 2"

Friday 9/13 - trim/blow/bag mow at 2"
- 15 bags topsoil for leveling 
- seed/hand spiker/peat moss topping
- Bioplex 5-3-1

Today - Tenacity with NIS 
-blanket spray main front 
-spot spray remainder of seeded areas and weedy patches
-sprayed center of zoysia patch that reinvaded

I'm thinking that my decision to go with a lower HOC in my front yard with a little less N this summer backfired. Without a proper irrigation system, my front yard gets cooked. Even though it was not invaded too much by broadleaf (mainly clover), the grassy weeds (bentgrass, zoysia, and poa A & T) hit me a little harder this year. I may need to go up to 3" next summer, as I wasn't able to maintain proper mowing frequency, fertilization and irrigation.


----------



## Chris LI

I tried out a new liquid aeration product tonight. Simple Lawn Solutions Soil Loosener. I've had it in my stash, but was using baby shampoo over the summer with so so results. This product seems to be a lot more concentrated (60% Ammonium Laureth Sulfate) as opposed to whatever concentration is of the SLS is in the baby shampoo. It's been very dry and everything is suffering after an outbreak of red thread.

I used about 1.5x the recommended rate.


----------



## social port

Chris LI said:


> I'm thinking that my decision to go with a lower HOC in my front yard with a little less N this summer backfired. Without a proper irrigation system, my front yard gets cooked. Even though it was not invaded too much by broadleaf (mainly clover), the grassy weeds (bentgrass, zoysia, and poa A & T) hit me a little harder this year. I may need to go up to 3" next summer, as I wasn't able to maintain proper mowing frequency, fertilization and irrigation


Good to hear of your experience here. I'm taking the HOC in my backyard down to 2.5. 
I was thinking about taking my side yard down to 2.5 as well, but it is next to an empty lot infested with troublesome weeds. Now I'm going to reconsider that option...maybe that is asking for trouble. Except for some bermuda, I haven't had many weeds come up cutting at 4.5.

I'm sticking to 2.5 in the backyard because it is enclosed in a fence.


----------



## Chris LI

@social port 
My backyard is also fenced and is shaded, so it doesn't suffer from the heat/weed pressure, so I've kept it at 2.5 for the last 3 years or so during the summer, which seems to be the best height. It's been very dry lately, so recovery has been very slow.


----------



## Chris LI

Watered seeded/dry areas. Sprayed urea/FeATURE at .25 lbs./2 oz. rate per K, over ~500 sq ft area of last year's reno/weak areas under trees.


----------



## Chris LI

Watered everything (just about) to moisten seeded areas and wash off last night's urea app.

Tenacity is doing its job. I'm finding more bentgrass than I thought was there. Yikes! It really spread this year, but I think I got it in time for a second app and the kbg to fill in. Zoysia isn't showing any adverse effects yet.


----------



## Chris LI

I finally got to do the first Fall Blitz app, after a trip to the Vet; fertilizer/seed pickup at my favorite supplier; weed pickin' and seedin' (and fertin' [Bioplex, alfalfa pellets + Urea]) at my friend's house; and blade swappin' to my Ninja at home; and a mow at 2". I've held off due to leveling, seeding and high temps (around 80*) with no rain for weeks.

Urea went down at 0.5 lbs N/k after the mow today and is being watered in as we speak. Rust damaged Bewitched is recovering after the .25 N urea/FeATURE spray app. Bentgrass is reeling after Tenacity app, but Zoysia isn't flinching. It really took over this year, so I'm contemplating nuking it and planting PRG as a cover crop, until I can properly reno the area. In my fertilizer pickup round today, I picked up some tri-rye, so I'm really tempted to pull the trigger before the Zoysia goes dormant.


----------



## social port

Sounds like you have a busy season ahead of you!


----------



## Chris LI

social port said:


> Sounds like you have a busy season ahead of you!


Thanks! There's always something to do. Today, I kept watering the seeded areas and did an am and pm check for grass babies. A lot more popped by the end of the day. Also, I had some time to break out my grandfather's 60+ year old reel mower. I lubed it up and double cut some cross hatched passes on about a 200 sq ft area @1.5", which is the maximum HOC. I bought a backlapping kit with compound and a hand crank this past spring. I just need to get to it! :nod:


----------



## Trailz516

Nice mower^ love seeing vintage equipment


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## social port

That mower is cool, but I'm impressed with the way that hellstrip looks :nod:


----------



## Chris LI

@Trailz516 
Thanks, me too. I like the nostalgia and a lot of old mowers were really built to last.

@social port 
Funny you mention that! That Zoysia is thick, dense, light green, turns brown in October, and is the bane of my existence! I want to kill it, but I can't hardly grow anything else on the hellstrips. :evil: I have a shopping center and apartment complex across the street, so all that concrete and asphalt really cooks my front yard. It really drives you to drink.

If anyone local wants some, bring your sod cutter and help yourself. I'll probably have a new batch by next season without trying. :fool:


----------



## social port

Chris LI said:


> Funny you mention that! That Zoysia is thick, dense, light green, turns brown in October, and is the bane of my existence!


That is zoysia?! :shock: 
I never would have guessed it. Ever. Not even once.
It looks great at the moment, at least in the picture. The edging probably helps.


----------



## Green

I was trying to figure out what grass that was. My guess was TTTF.

I don't know, @Chris LI, there are several Zoysia hellstrips (and some lawns as well) in my neighborhood, and if I had a hellstrip that I couldn't keep looking good with cool season grass, and it was already Zoysia, I might be tempted to just keep it if I could tolerate the brown from mid Fall to mid Spring. Only issue would be whether the mower picks it up and transplants it to other areas, or if the seed blows. But how common is that really, from a mower, as opposed to a dethatcher? Does Zoysia produce viable seed at normal mowing heights?


----------



## M32075

I have a zoysia cool season mix in my backyard. I would love to get rid of it but other then a nuclear war head nearly impossible.


----------



## g-man

@M32075 pylex will selectively kill Zoysia. I think tenacity will too if you start at green up in spring.


----------



## M32075

Pylex $280 for 4oz on sale. And I thought my favorite scotch was expensive


----------



## Chris LI

social port said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you mention that! That Zoysia is thick, dense, light green, turns brown in October, and is the bane of my existence!
> 
> 
> 
> That is zoysia?! :shock:
> I never would have guessed it. Ever. Not even once.
> It looks great at the moment, at least in the picture. The edging probably helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks! It will become more evident in October photos when it's going dormant and the main lawn is still dark.

As @Green debates, it's a little hard to consider nuking something that grows well despite efforts to hinder it, while catering to desirable turfgrass, when it thrives in an area the desirable grasses have difficulty surviving. I don't have a proper irrigation system, and timing of renos is not good for my work schedule, so I've been managing it for now.

As @g-man states, Tenacity can damage it, so I blanket sprayed the main lawn for Zoysia and bentgrass, and sprayed the center of a Zoysia patch on the front side yard by the RV, as an experiment, to see how much damage occurs. That experimental area was a TTTF reno, where I didn't have time to nuke, fallow and respray, due to lack of time a few years ago (three, I think) . I only had time to nuke one day and scalp, seed and peat moss the following day. I had Tenacity, but ran out of time and regretted it. Unfortunately, the Zoysia reared its ugly head this year. Moral of the story is: multiple apps of glyphosate with fallowing, is the way to go, IMHO.

I hope this helps someone, or at least stimulates a discussion of best approach to manage or eliminate Zoysia.


----------



## Green

@Chris LI, I noticed today that the Zoysia near me is starting its annual decline. There's a bit of a brown tinge starting. Crabgrass, too, is losing color. So is my cool season grass, but that's a different story (rust).


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> @Chris LI, I noticed today that the Zoysia near me is starting its annual decline. There's a bit of a brown tinge starting. Crabgrass, too, is losing color. So is my cool season grass, but that's a different story (rust).


I started noticing it as well over the last couple of weeks, when lows dropped into the high 40's a couple of times. However, it's also been in the 80's many times during the same period, with little to no rain, so it's hard for me to determine if it is showing indications of drought stress and/or winter dormancy. From my observations, I lean towards winter dormancy, as I've been watering.


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday, 
Trim, blow, mulch mow at 2", plus lots of hand/poor man's irrigation watering. It's still very dry here. We had a little help from Mother Nature with 0.13" of rain.

Today,
I went up to my friend's house and pulled more weeds; added my kelp/guano tonic to the stressed/dead crape myrtles; dropped some tri rye in the holes and light overseed with extra in bare spots and along driveway project. I also dropped urea @ .5 lbs N/k and watered some of it in.

Then back to the homestead where I dropped .5 lbs N/k on established areas with half as much on seeded areas. Then I hand watered some areas and have poor man's system watering the rest in now. It's about 14 days since the Tenacity app, and I decided to wait a little longer before spot treatments. Last week's urea kicked in nicely, and bleached areas are starting to grow out. Lawn is still ugly.


----------



## Chris LI

Mulch mow @2". With the warmest, driest September that I can remember, it has been a challenge to bring the lawn back from summer stress and to keep seeded areas moist. Some of the earliest trees to change color have started to yellow, despite summer weather conditions. I noticed that trees have shedded leaves during the past week, presumably due to dry conditions.

Last year's mini renos are recovering more slowly than desired, so I dropped some Bioplex on parts of them, as an experiment, to see if it helps with recovery more than urea alone.

I'm still holding off a little longer on the second shot of Tenacity due to the dry conditions and watering needs. I don't want to add additional stress with an herbicide app. Lawn is still ugly, but here's a couple of photos to document the current status.


----------



## Chris LI

@Green I finally gave up on kbg for a very small, high traffic location, and threw down some newly acquired tri-rye, along with some really old Spitfire and Midnight. I hand sprinkled/crumbled some topsoil and have it a light watering. This area has no type of poor man's irrigation, so the TTTF I dropped a few weeks ago never popped. This is kind of a kitchen sink mix. I figure temps are predicted to drop after tomorrow, so maybe I could get some ground cover, before winter. The dormant seeded kbg last winter got trampled by my brother in law, when he was prepping his RV for the spring. It's been a dust bowl ever since.


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## Green

Probably a good idea. Speaking of rye...

A church in my area overseeded their lawn at some point in the past year, and used Ryegrass. Before the overseed, it really used to suffer. It looked awesome this Spring, then toward the end of Summer, dried out and went partly brown. All the while it was trampled because the community holds events there. Looked at it today, and it's getting green and thick again.


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## Chris LI

@Green 
Thanks for the support. I've used kbg/rye mixes on sports fields at work, but have only used kbg and TTTF at home. I figured it was worth a shot.


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> Green
> Thanks for the support. I've used kbg/rye mixes on sports fields at work, but have only used kbg and TTTF at home. I figured it was worth a shot.


I still have a small area (maybe 0.3K) that's KBG/Rye (with some fine fescue trying to mix/encroach in). I did a lot of reseeding of that area this Spring after Triv kill.

Speaking of sports fields, I could not believe all the Triv at one of the local ones last week (I don't think it was annua).


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## Chris LI

Went from summer heat/drought yesterday with high of 85* (93* in NYC) to high of 58* during the day today (crept up to 59* after dark). With less than an inch of rain for September, I watered an awful lot (almost every day). No watering yesterday or today! The roughly 0.5" of rain which came down yesterday afternoon/night in a few bursts, combined with the slow soaking rain of today (about 0.25"), was very welcomed.

I know other folks have been inundated, so I hope all of you dry out, and pass a little rain our way. Weather patterns should now be shifting towards fall, with cooler temperatures and more rain. Hopefully, it will be a reasonable amount. I remember 10+ years ago when it rained almost every day in October.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I mulch mowed @2", dropped 0.5 lbs N of urea and watered most of it in.

Today, I watered in the rest of the urea, and spot sprayed Tenacity(3 week follow up) on bentgrass, clover and my spot test on zoysia.

I've been a little under the weather, so I didn't get up to my friend's place to drop urea and check on the plantings.


----------



## Chris LI

Went up to my friend's house today after work to do a little more spot seeding and drop more urea before the rain tonight. I also tried out my first order of K4L Extreme Blend on the crape myrtles that I'm trying to save. Two are coming back, so far.


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## Chris LI

I just got in a mulch mow @2", before dark and the predicted rain tonight. It was overgrown, so I violated the 1/3 rule, but not 1/2, at least. When I checked my journal, I realized my last mow was 3 days ago, not 4. Holy smokes! The urea really kicked into overdrive! The comfortable (seasonable) overcast conditions have helped the lawn to recover immensely, during the last few days.

Also, I finally, really, realized why kbg lovers like me are driven to drink. The tri-rye I dropped 7 days ago on 10/1 (in a wasteland, so to speak). Not only did it pop throughout, but it already outgrew the 3-way kbg (Bewitched, Mazama, Beyond) that I've babied since seed down on 9/14. It really makes me want to reconsider this "Sissy Grass"  , as a component of my main lawn. We'll have to see how it looks a year from now, but wow! It has an impressive start. I did throw the kitchen sink at it, so to speak, so that area may have some long term help from other types of seed.


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## social port

Chris LI said:


> I realized my last mow was 3 days ago, not 4. Holy smokes!


Same here. I can't keep up with the mowing. My bluegrass grows faster than my TTTF.



Chris LI said:


> We'll have to see how it looks a year from now, but wow!


I was reading earlier this year that PRG stripes more easily than other cool season grasses. Bonus :mrgreen:


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## Chris LI

social port said:


> Same here. I can't keep up with the mowing. My bluegrass grows faster than my TTTF.
> 
> I was reading earlier this year that PRG stripes more easily than other cool season grasses. Bonus :mrgreen:


Coming out of summer stress, I noticed the same thing with my kbg vs. TTTF.

+1 on the PRG striping. It's another reason why I may turn to the dark side. :twisted: 
TTTF stripes better than kbg, but I think prg stripes even better, due to the silvery underside of the leaf blade. Kbg is still my favorite, but for next to impossible areas to grow kbg, another type of grass is better than mud. Eventually, I may try some FF in my densely shaded areas, if Bewitched and Mazama don't thicken up enough.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, we finally had a nice, long, soaking rain. We received 0.42" over ~10 hours.

This morning we have wind and sun breaking through the clouds, before rain in the afternoon. I think we are approaching normal soil moisture for this time of year (from observation), but haven't looked up any data to confirm/refute my evaluation.


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## social port

Chris LI said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same here. I can't keep up with the mowing. My bluegrass grows faster than my TTTF.
> 
> I was reading earlier this year that PRG stripes more easily than other cool season grasses. Bonus :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> Coming out of summer stress, I noticed the same thing with my kbg vs. TTTF.
> 
> +1 on the PRG striping. It's another reason why I may turn to the dark side. :twisted:
> TTTF stripes better than kbg, but I think prg stripes even better, due to the silvery underside of the leaf blade. Kbg is still my favorite, but for next to impossible areas to grow kbg, another type of grass is better than mud. Eventually, I may try some FF in my densely shaded areas, if Bewitched and Mazama don't thicken up enough.
Click to expand...

So cool...we have different experiences of these turfgrasses. My bluegrass stripes much better than my TTTF!  Also, I notice a silvery color to my TTTF at times. It's like a shine. I always thought my mind was simply getting carried away! I've never noticed such a silver shine with the bluegrass.


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## Green

social port said:


> Also, I notice a silvery color to my TTTF at times. It's like a shine. I always thought my mind was simply getting carried away! I've never noticed such a silver shine with the bluegrass.


TTPR tends to have even more of this than TTTF. Remember, they're closely related...the forage people even cross them and sell Rye-Fescue seed. Heck, annual Ryegrass is a Fescue both in terms of look and genus (_Festuca perennis_). Even Tall Fescue is sometimes named as _Lolium arundinaceum_ (Ryegrass Genus _Lolium_). So there's a lot of crossover between the two. I think someday we'll see TTRF seed on the market. There was at least one guy working on it ten years ago.

https://turfgrass.ucr.edu/reports/water_conservation/drought_tolerance_2013.pdf

By the way Chris...Spyder LS is right up there in that file for water use.


----------



## social port

Green said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I notice a silvery color to my TTTF at times. It's like a shine. I always thought my mind was simply getting carried away! I've never noticed such a silver shine with the bluegrass.
> 
> 
> 
> TTPR tends to have even more of this than TTTF. Remember, they're closely related...the forage people even cross them and sell Rye-Fescue seed. Heck, annual Ryegrass is a Fescue both in terms of look and genus (_Festuca perennis_). Even Tall Fescue is sometimes named as _Lolium arundinaceum_ (Ryegrass Genus _Lolium_). So there's a lot of crossover between the two. I think someday we'll see TTRF seed on the market. There was at least one guy working on it ten years ago.
> 
> https://turfgrass.ucr.edu/reports/water_conservation/drought_tolerance_2013.pdf
> 
> By the way Chris...Spyder LS is right up there in that file for water use.
Click to expand...

Very cool, Green :thumbup:. I didn't know they were that close. Can we all just put our heads together to come up with a type and cultivar all our own :mrgreen: ?
The drought and heat tolerance of KY31
The green of TTTF
The blade width, rhizomatic activity, and 'blue' of bluegrass
And the silver side of PRG?
Please and thank you.
And we can do a shade-tolerant version, too. Don't worry.
Learning about these grass types always makes me want to dive in to the world of...cultivar creation (I'm missing the technical term)?


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## Green

social port said:


> Very cool, Green :thumbup:. I didn't know they were that close. Can we all just put our heads together to come up with a type and cultivar all our own :mrgreen: ?
> The drought and heat tolerance of KY31
> The green of TTTF
> The blade width, rhizomatic activity, and 'blue' of bluegrass
> And the silver side of PRG?
> Please and thank you.
> And we can do a shade-tolerant version, too. Don't worry.
> Learning about these grass types always makes me want to dive in to the world of...cultivar creation (I'm missing the technical term)?


Supposedly the TTRF will be something like that...if it ever comes. Problem is, it's going to have a terrible dormancy mechanism, halfway between that of Ryegrass (atrocious) and TF (not so great), most likely. Now, if they could also improve that and make it at least as good as today's TF...


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## Chris LI

@Green 
@social port 
Thanks! This is all very interesting. It would be great to see if some of these crossed cultivars made it into production. Oh, and my TTTF does have a shiny underside. I just don't think it's as shiny/silvery as a typical PRG blade. We'll see when it matures.


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## M32075

Last fall I did a overseed with Hancock PRG 3 way mix. In two weeks I had a nice lawn. Come spring it came out of dormancy super early and absolutely stunning. My friends and neighbors were stunned. But being in full sun all summer it collapsed come middle of July. I think PRG as far as spring and early summer looks better than KBG. The shine is incredible and stripes look great


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## Chris LI

M32075 said:


> Last fall I did a overseed with Hancock PRG 3 way mix. In two weeks I had a nice lawn. Come spring it came out of dormancy super early and absolutely stunning. My friends and neighbors were stunned. But being in full sun all summer it collapsed come middle of July. I think PRG as far as spring and early summer looks better than KBG. The shine is incredible and stripes look great


Thanks for your experience! This is my first try with straight PRG. Many years ago, I think that I had some as part of a mix, but I have no real experience with it. Hopefully, some of the TTTF and kbg I dropped before/with, will germinate and stand up to the summer. This area has no type of irrigation other than hose nozzle or hose end sprinkler.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I did a little hand tool overseeding spiking and threw some more tri-rye down as a last ditch effort in some struggling areas. I'm still a little under the weather and have other things going on, so I'll miss the mow and urea app that I should be doing today.


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## Chris LI

g-man said:


> @M32075 pylex will selectively kill Zoysia. I think tenacity will too if you start at green up in spring.


I've been thinking about trying the Tenacity app next spring. I have a test spot spray (not on hellstrip) going this fall with two apps, so far. It will probably be dormant before I can hit it a third time. I'm curious to see how much it injures it. It reinvaded my TTTF reno from a few years ago, so I'm not getting my hopes up.

I've been living with the Zoysia hellstrip because I don't have a proper irrigation system or time to do a reno. Maybe one day.


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## Chris LI

Second Tenacity app is causing lawn ugliness again, with whitening. Although it was a spot spray, the bentgrass areas are quite large. It seems even more noticeable now, since successive urea apps kicked nicely. The Nor'easter took down a good amount of green and dried leaves, but I have not been able to mow. I will need to go back up to 2.5", when I mow next time. We haven't received much rain, so I hand watered seeded/weak areas and am PM's watering now.

I realized that I should have done one more Bioplex app before starting urea apps. A small test spot I dropped a handful in the backyard, is doing much better than surrounding areas, which got plenty of urea.


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## Chris LI

Received 1.99" of rain today, as of this time.


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## M32075

Chris LI said:


> Received 1.99" of rain today, as of this time.


About time we got a good 2 inch soaking rain it was much needed.


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## Chris LI

M32075 said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Received 1.99" of rain today, as of this time.
> 
> 
> 
> About time we got a good 2 inch soaking rain it was much needed.
Click to expand...

Amen! I thought that we were getting closer to the normal total for the year after the last nor'easter. However, I heard that we were still 4" below normal. Now, we made up half of it. :mrgreen:


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> I thought that we were getting closer to the normal total for the year after the last nor'easter. However, I heard that we were still 4" below normal. Now, we made up half of it. :mrgreen:


Most of CT/LI/MA/RI, all of NJ, Southern NY, and even Southern NH/VT/ME plus a good amount of PA are now at least abnormally dry: https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/data/png/20191015/20191015_Northeast_date.png

Actually a lot of the US is. Only the Northern Midwest, Western Plains, West Coast are receiving normal rainfall:
https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/

Our lawn forum friends a few hours South in MD/DE/VA/WVA are really dry. The hot temps they had until recently have not helped with that.


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## Chris LI

Just to confirm,the total rain the other day remained at 1.99".

Yesterday, I played catch up on the lawn. I started with a preemptive strike of Advil and Capzasin HP (pinched nerve in back, lol). I spent a half hour picking up branches and twigs. There's a ton of early/green leaves down from the drought/storms. I would love to reel mow at around 1.5-2", but the amount of large trees in the area is quite an impedance, in that mission.

Anyway, I decided to keep the Ninja blade on for two reasons: avoid sucking up seed, and I wasn't up to changing it. I raised HOC to 2.5" since I missed a couple of mows and had to double cut both the large areas of the front (cross hatch), to try to mulch as many leaves as possible. The Ninja is the best grass mulching blade, ever, but cannot compete with the Gator for leaf mulching. I mowed all seeded areas. It's amazing how far ahead of the kbg, the rye is, and it's even ahead of the TTTF in a major way, considering how much later it was seeded.

Tenacity sprayed areas whitened considerably, with bentgrass browning (hopefully dead). It's too late for a third app this season. I hope I can grow out those areas, so I can break out the striper. It's been way too long. I realized that I should have used the 2 oz rate instead of 4 oz rate, and will be adding Triclopyr next time, to reduce whitening and to take out the clover. I finished up with a foliar app of urea (0.25 lbs N) on mist Tenacity bleached, weakened and seeded areas (~500 sq ft). I'm overdue for a weekly drop of urea and will try to get it down today. Last drop was 13 days ago on 10/6.


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## Chris LI

Oh, and I did some searching on TLF and found the 1 oz rate was effective, in some cases. I will keep that in mind for the future. Here's some photos for reference.






In the foreground of this last one, bentgrass on the left spot and Zoysia on the right spot. The Zoysia looks like it's recovering after the 2nd app.


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## Chris LI

Got 0.60"+ of rain yesterday. I didn't have a chance to check the final total on my weather station.

Today, I spot seeded some areas at my friend's house, after work and dropped 0.5 lbs N of urea on most areas, with less on seeded areas. Foliar and soil drench of weak Crape myrtles, hostas and a rose, with K4L Extreme blend. I also hit a test area 2'x2' on a corner of the lawn.

Then I headed home and dropped 0.5 lbs N of urea on all turf areas.

Both lawns are looking good after multiple apps of urea, even though I missed last weeks drop.

We had strong sun today with a high of 66* Rain is predicted for tomorrow, to water in the urea.

Tenacity bleached areas are beginning to green up, ever so slightly. I'm hoping that it will look close to normal by Halloween.


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## Green

I have massive white areas like that in the low-input area. I'm actually going to spray again if I can, assuming I get the chance. Not sure it will do much though, since a lot of mine is Triv versus Bentgrass. I do swear I managed to kill Triv late in the season this way two years ago, though.


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> I do swear I managed to kill Triv late in the season this way two years ago, though.


Interesting...


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## Chris LI

Received 0.44" of rain yesterday. 0.01" was a nice mist, during the day to dissolve my urea app, and a soaking rain for a few hours, for the remaining 0.43".

Today, I opted to blow leaves off the mini reno/overseeded/matted areas, instead of mowing. The lawn is due, but it wasn't worth it. I didn't want to tear up any progress of the seedlings. That also left me some time to sharpen my old Gator blade, which I use for leaf mulching. I'll use that for the next mow to save the new Gator blade, with some remaining twigs in the lawn.

The healthy turf in the front yard has really darkened up, in quite contrast to the Tenacity laden areas. That's the compromise in the pursuit of a nice lawn. Nice, green non-uniform bentgrass mixed in with desirable grasses, or a more uniform turf stand with an ugly period. I sure hope this pays off.

FWIW, here are some reference photos for those interested in seeing the contrast and a few other things.

These two are the zoysia/kbg hellstrip, where the kbg survives in the wheel tracks of the mower.




This one is the transition between zoysia and cool season grasses.



Contrast shot.



Zoysia/kbg mix with prg seedlings on right.



Two shots of test spot spray of Tenacity in the middle of a zoysia patch, which invaded my TTTF/kbg mix. As you can see, well fertilized zoysia, can darken up a little bit.





I figured that I would put some of these photos up in case someone had an interest in competing cool/warm season grasses and weighing the pros/cons of combatting "weed grasses", or just trying to manage them (also, along the same lines of bluemuda).


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## Chris LI

I had just enough time to swap the old Gator blade on the mower and mulch mow the front @ 2.5". I started the back after dark and found a cat food can the hard way which ended my night abruptly, but that's another story. The important part is that the can has been removed, the mower is ok, and I got to my 2XIPA a little sooner than expected. It's time to dig up my son's bicycle headlight. Tomorrow is another day.


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## Green

Maybe you can make that "Poysia" (stupid name) hellstrip thing work long-term...kind of like Bluemuda!

I'm looking forward to using my Gator blade for the first time soon. I tried it briefly last Fall, but it didn't come sharp out of the box, so I switched back to the regular blade since the season was almost over. I still need to find time to clean and sharpen it.


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> Maybe you can make that "Poysia" (stupid name) hellstrip thing work long-term...kind of like Bluemuda!
> 
> I'm looking forward to using my Gator blade for the first time soon. I tried it briefly last Fall, but it didn't come sharp out of the box, so I switched back to the regular blade since the season was almost over. I still need to find time to clean and sharpen it.


Yup, been there, done that, lol, for the "Poysia". It used to be 1/2 of the hellstrip. Now its 95%, 

Anyway, I'll continue to manage it, and try to sway it to "the blue side" :bandit:

I hope you enjoy the Gator blade. I find it extremely versatile. Most blades don't come razor sharp. I think the reason why is that the paint could chip off the sharp edge, causing corrosion while in storage (warehouse). Also, it's probably easier to not worry about a sharp edge during the mfg process. Anyway, a touch up with a hand file should do the trick.


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## Chris LI

So, it was a beautiful day for lawn care, but it wasn't in the cards for me. My phantom coolant leak over a long period, resulted in a puddle in my driveway, when I got home from work on Thursday. Yesterday was troubleshooting day, and today was radiator replacement day, along with a t stat, and a billet water neck for the 7.3.

I did scope out the lawn for progress/issues and dropped another 0.5 lbs N of urea, before the rain tomorrow. The color is solid and the Tenacity bleached areas are greening up (except for the nuked bentgrass :twisted: ).

I really wanted to break out the striping kit, but I ran out of daylight, so I gave a little extra TLC to the truck.


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## SNOWBOB11

Chris LI said:


> So, it was a beautiful day for lawn care, but it wasn't in the cards for me. My phantom coolant leak over a long period, resulted in a puddle in my driveway, when I got home from work on Thursday. Yesterday was troubleshooting day, and today was radiator replacement day, along with a t stat, and a billet water neck for the 7.3.
> 
> I did scope out the lawn for progress/issues and dropped another 0.5 lbs N of urea, before the rain tomorrow. The color is solid and the Tenacity bleached areas are greening up (except for the nuked bentgrass :twisted: ).
> 
> I really wanted to break out the striping kit, but I ran out of daylight, so I gave a little extra TLC to the truck.


Good to hear your tenacity bleaching is greening back up. It can be so annoying looking at those white grass circles in your otherwise green lawn.


----------



## Chris LI

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, it was a beautiful day for lawn care, but it wasn't in the cards for me. My phantom coolant leak over a long period, resulted in a puddle in my driveway, when I got home from work on Thursday. Yesterday was troubleshooting day, and today was radiator replacement day, along with a t stat, and a billet water neck for the 7.3.
> 
> I did scope out the lawn for progress/issues and dropped another 0.5 lbs N of urea, before the rain tomorrow. The color is solid and the Tenacity bleached areas are greening up (except for the nuked bentgrass :twisted: ).
> 
> I really wanted to break out the striping kit, but I ran out of daylight, so I gave a little extra TLC to the truck.
> 
> 
> 
> Good to hear your tenacity bleaching is greening back up. It can be so annoying looking at those white grass circles in your otherwise green lawn.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the support. The growing pains are frustrating. I hope it pays off in the long run. The surrounding turf looks pretty good for the nomix. I realized after the last app that I should have included the Triclopyr to lessen the whitening and to knock out the clover, but lessen learned. A lot of what I document in my journal isn't just for me, but for others who may benefit from the info for their yards, or who are just curious about what we lawn nuts do.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> I realized after the last app that I should have included the Triclopyr to lessen the whitening and to knock out the clover, but lessen learned. A lot of what I document in my journal isn't just for me, but for others who may benefit from the info for their yards, or who are just curious about what we lawn nuts do.


Speaking of which...I wonder what the best proportions are when mixing these. I posted on it a while back, but never really got or found a lot of info.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> I realized after the last app that I should have included the Triclopyr to lessen the whitening and to knock out the clover, but lessen learned. A lot of what I document in my journal isn't just for me, but for others who may benefit from the info for their yards, or who are just curious about what we lawn nuts do.
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of which...I wonder what the best proportions are when mixing these. I posted on it a while back, but never really got or found a lot of info.
Click to expand...

When I was spraying for what I thought was bentgrass, which was actually triv, I used 4 oz acre rate of tenacity with no triclopyr and had severe bleaching after the second app even on the KBG. When I sprayed again at a later date I did 2 oz acre tenacity with .50 oz per 1000 triclopyr and there was very little bleaching on the bluegrass. g-man recommended this mix and it worked great and made a significant difference with bleaching.


----------



## Chris LI

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> I realized after the last app that I should have included the Triclopyr to lessen the whitening and to knock out the clover, but lessen learned. A lot of what I document in my journal isn't just for me, but for others who may benefit from the info for their yards, or who are just curious about what we lawn nuts do.
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of which...I wonder what the best proportions are when mixing these. I posted on it a while back, but never really got or found a lot of info.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When I was spraying for what I thought was bentgrass, which was actually triv, I used 4 oz acre rate of tenacity with no triclopyr and had severe bleaching after the second app even on the KBG. When I sprayed again at a later date I did 2 oz acre tenacity with .50 oz per 1000 triclopyr and there was very little bleaching on the bluegrass. g-man recommended this mix and it worked great and made a significant difference with bleaching.
Click to expand...

Perfect. Thank you!

Thanks @Green for posting the question and thanks @g-man for the recommended proportions.


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## Green

@SNOWBOB11, wouldn't it depend on which Triclopyr (concentration; amine vs. ester)? Was this based on the 8% amine?


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## SNOWBOB11

Green said:


> @SNOWBOB11, wouldn't it depend on which Triclopyr (concentration; amine vs. ester)? Was this based on the 8% amine?


Forgot to mention it was 61.6% triclopyr. You'd have to adjust if you used a lower concentration.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, we received 1.26" of rain, which was a lot more than I expected. So, my urea drop on Saturday probably failed and leached.

I put the side discharge chute on today and mowed/mulched the bunch of leaves that came down in the rainstorm yesterday (@2.5"), to lift up the grass blades and free up any matted leaves. I used my Zamboni pattern to evenly distribute them, where I was able to do so. I finished up with most likely my last urea drop for the season (0.5 lbs N), with the anticipated light misting rain, which should pick up little overnight. The grass is really thickening up and the leaves should be digested quickly. We've been a little warmer than average with highs in the mid 60's and lows in the 50's. We haven't dropped below 42* yet. Yesterday, when I got home after work, when the sun was back out, it was a balmy 68*...great grass growing weather.


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## Mark B

Chris LI said:


> Yesterday, we received 1.26" of rain, which was a lot more than I expected. So, my urea drop on Saturday probably failed and leached.


Hi Chris, would you mind clarifying this a little please?
What causes the fail? 1.26" of rain in a day, causing surface runoff? Or taking it through the grass root zone completely, too fast for uptake? Possibly something else?
I'm interested because we are having rain a plenty, and I'm wondering at what point nitrogen would be useless due to too much rainfall, and then at what point we should add more.
I imagine that half amounts at double the frequency would be best practice in periods of heavy rainfall, to maximize availability and uptake by the grass.


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## g-man

@TheWhiteWizard rate of rainfall and slope of the property will be the biggest factors. A 25.4mm of rain in 1hr is very different than 2mm of rain in an hour for 12hr. At high rates the water will take the product away, more so if your property has slopes.


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## Chris LI

TheWhiteWizard said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, we received 1.26" of rain, which was a lot more than I expected. So, my urea drop on Saturday probably failed and leached.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Chris, would you mind clarifying this a little please?
> What causes the fail? 1.26" of rain in a day, causing surface runoff? Or taking it through the grass root zone completely, too fast for uptake? Possibly something else?
> I'm interested because we are having rain a plenty, and I'm wondering at what point nitrogen would be useless due to too much rainfall, and then at what point we should add more.
> I imagine that half amounts at double the frequency would be best practice in periods of heavy rainfall, to maximize availability and uptake by the grass.
Click to expand...

In my area, we have very sandy soil, which is conducive to leaching fertilizer, pesticides, etc., so that is my presumption without being able to test it at the homeowner level. With our recent storms and regular rains as well, 
we caught up on our precipitation deficit, so soil moisture was adequate. This would help the water soluble N to easily migrate through the soil profile (i.e. a wet sponge, as opposed to a dry one). Also, the rain began slowly for a couple of hours, so the urea should have dissolved prior to the heavy rain falling. This is why I believe probably more of it leached past the root zone, as opposed to running off. Although I haven't conducted a soil test (I know I should), I think my OM level is probably decent, due to the amount of leaves I mulch into the turf and the organics I use. This should help to hold soluble N in the soil a little better. I hope reduced the leaching, a little.

Areas that have high percentages of clay would be prone to runoff. With the high amount of rain, in such a short period of time, I'm sure that I had some runoff, too. However, my lawn has very little slope, so it's less prone to runoff.

Had I realized the rain would have been so heavy, I wouldn't have made the drop at all, not even at half rate. A light foliar app might have been a consideration (with a rinse off with the rain), but that's a little more time intensive than the granular app. I can do roughly a 5K sq ft (~460 sq meters) in about 15-20 minutes, which includes weighing it out. A foliar app takes me a lot longer with my hand pump 2.5 gallon (~9.5 liter) sprayer.


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## Mark B

Thank you both.@Chris LI and @g-man

Chris, you gotta love a soil test for knowing your OM content, I'm excited for my 2nd one in the spring to compare against last years!

You got to hate super heavy rain. Especially when you have slopes in the lawn, its wrong on so many different levels...

I jest lol, but seriously when the following pic is what I'm looking at right now, you either have to laugh or you'll cry. #renofail



Edit: sorry for the poor quality pic, taken through glass with my shaky hands (it's basically more ridiculously heavy rain continuing to erode my non germination areas. It's actually not that helpful but forgive me for leaving it posted)


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## Mark B

Overnight, here we've had the same heavy rainfall you mentioned that you had, over an inch per hour along with thunder and lightning, in the midst of a long period of soaking rain too. Probably leached my latest N app too. (My CEC is measured slightly low)I don't like waste, but it's not a massive deal I feel. The latest posts from the guys talking on the 2019 fall N thread are quite appropriate! Backing off sooner in the fall and starting early spring with small N apps sounds like a possible way to go. 
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12123&start=200


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## Chris LI

@TheWhiteWizard 
Thanks. I've been following that thread. It's quite interesting. I didn't have anything to really contribute, so I didn't jump in. I think I'm done with N for the year. I really hit the weekly apps harder this year, so I'm curious how spring greenup turns out. I bought some AMS this fall and plan to try it out in the spring.

I don't think your reno failed. It just needs some TLC in the spring. If you get some seed down early (dormant/early spring), you should be able to get the edges to fill in, before the trees and shrubs leaf out.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday was a good, long lawn day. Lots of mowing and leaf mulching were going on (today is recovery day) . The lawn is much stronger and thicker, with Tenacity bleaching almost entirely gone. Bentgrass is toast almost everywhere. I found a tiny section that I hand pulled today.

The front yard had all leaves mulched into the lawn, with not one being bagged. My Red Maple in the back dropped 95% of its leaves within a week as usual, so that was a little much to push into the shady back lawn. I mulched them up and threw the bag on to pull up the excess for about 2/3 of the backyard. I ran out of daylight, so I bagged the remainder, and made separate piles in the garden for winter mulch cover and OM. I finished up in the dark and harvested the remaining vegetables, with the first round of 30's predicted last night. Avg first frost is 11/1, so we're on borrowed time. Temps have been unseasonably warm this week. Thursday night it was still 68* past midnight (around 1-1:30), but dropped to 47*, by Friday morning. This morning, we got our first sub 40* temp, with 36*. The front looked pretty good, so I laid down some stripes, which I haven't felt like doing for awhile, with the Tenacity bleaching. It felt really good to do so.


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## Trailz516

Lawn looks great! Great color. It's a shame that winter is so close. We've been lucky on LI with this warm weather this past week.


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## social port

Looking very nice, Chris!!


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## Chris LI

Thank you!
@Trailz516 
@social port


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## Chris LI

First frost arrived last night/early morning. It was very light and closer to the street. The cars and lawn near the house had dew. Our weather station on the back of the house showed 34* as the low. Current temp/high is 52*. Tomorrow is predicted to be closer to 60*, with temps dropping later in the week, to below normal with the jetstream dipping down. Early fall to winter in less than a week. Yuck! We're catching up to you folks in the midwest. :sad:


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## M32075

Lawn looking great nice recovery. I think our party is over come this weekend cold snap is coming. What is the height on your cut going into the winter? I was at 2.5 but back to 3 because of rain didn't want to cut more than 1/3. Can I leave it at 3 for the winter or try to get it back down to 2.5?


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## rclark227

Lawns looking good, Chris Li ! :thumbup:


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## Butter

Hey Chris. The lawn looks great, the stripes look great! What kind of striping attachment do you have?


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## Chris LI

M32075 said:


> Lawn looking great nice recovery. I think our party is over come this weekend cold snap is coming. What is the height on your cut going into the winter? I was at 2.5 but back to 3 because of rain didn't want to cut more than 1/3. Can I leave it at 3 for the winter or try to get it back down to 2.5?


Thank you! I'm at 2.5" and stay there until the end of leaf mulching season, when I drop to 2" and bag the very last mow to pick up any stray leaves and larger leaf particles, which have not broken down (microherd goes sleepy, sleepy-soil temps too cold). This gives a clean look and reduces chances of matting/snow mold issues.

The cold snap will slow things down, but I usually have clippings until about Thanksgiving (sunny, southern exposure front yard), when the grass typically stops growing, for us. The shady backyard had slowed down already and stops growing a couple of weeks or so earlier. We had a warm spell a few years ago (2014, I think), when I was picking up clippings 2nd-3rd week of December.

For you, I would keep it at 3" a little longer, and drop to 2.5", for your last cut.


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## Chris LI

@rclark227 Thank you! Go Hokies! (my dad's alma mater)


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## Chris LI

Butter said:


> Hey Chris. The lawn looks great, the stripes look great! What kind of striping attachment do you have?


Thank you! I have the Toro Line Striping System. I love it because it disconnects quickly. I make my perimeter passes (double along beds/single along driveway/sidewalk) without the roller, first. Then I pop the roller on to get full length stripes. I've also tied the roller portion to my spreader for seeding, to get better seed/soil contact. It's not nearly as heavy as a large roller, but couldn't hurt. :ugeek:


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## JDgreen18

Color looks fantastic...A real nice clean edge you have there as well &#128526;


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## Green

Speaking of the edge...looks almost as good as my neighbor's edges (who literally has the best edges I've ever seen anywhere...and I believe he was from near where you live originally). Is there something about edging down there in the culture?  I don't know how you guys do it without tearing the turf.


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## Chris LI

Thanks "green guys"@JDgreen18 and @Green, that's kind of you. It was well overdue for edging. I hold off on edging after overseeding to give as chance for the seedlings to take root (and give me a break). I think a clean edge really sets off a nice mow.

@Green I wasn't up to using my edger attachment for my Echo PAS (it works fantastic, but makes you work for it), so I used the regular string trimmer attachment. Four things are the key: patience, steady hands, med-high engine speed, and trimmer line with an edged cross section (not the standard round line). I think mine is square or hexagonal. They make triangular line too. The higher speed and line with edges tends to slice more than bludgeon the turf. Also, the rotation of my Echo flings the trimmings ahead of me and tends to hold the line in the groove. This was the opposite of my old trimmer, which would kick the trimmings back towards me. It took a little getting used to, but I like it much better (who likes junk thrown at them anyway-lol).


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## Green

Ok, thanks. My neighbor uses a dedicated edger with a narrow blade (probably similar to your edging attachment). When I edge, I use an MTD monstrosity (I guess you call it a bed edger) that does a good job of giving me extra stuff to use as plugs to fill in spots elsewhere, but is hard to align and control and does not even fit properly against a sloped edge (it has a piece that sticks out and rubs into the area you just edged, messing it up, and the wheels try to run over the piece you just cut, but have a hard time doing so. It creates a decent to terrible-looking edge depending on various factors, but I don't edge often at this point, so it's not a big deal. I do like it to look somewhat clean after, but I'm more concerned with getting extra grass for plugs to be honest. One problem I have is that my grade is a couple of inches above the sidewalk, so when I edge, it's really easy to scalp the edges after when mowing, because your wheel hangs over when you make the first pass. I swear nice edging is an LI thing. South Florida as well, with the St. Augustine Grass in the road medians, and parking lots. (Don't even get me started on Indiana...).

As far as your Zamboni cut, what's the pattern you follow, and what does it do for you? Like I said, mine's a little more random. Guessing yours is like one of these: https://www.google.com/search?biw=1344&bih=710&tbm=isch&sxsrf=ACYBGNT1bKtWJWnN0TEZ510GjojW85tO2A%3A1573012658159&sa=1&ei=skTCXbWnCYuZ_Qb0uqbYDg&q=zamboni+pattern+mowing&oq=zamboni+pattern+mowing&gs_l=img.3..0i8i30l2.8454.9104..9369...0.0..0.80.530.7......0....1..gws-wiz-img.......0j0i30j0i5i30.6hxrXhmsFrY&ved=0ahUKEwi1yN3l2NTlAhWLTN8KHXSdCesQ4dUDCAY&uact=5#spf=1573012675806


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## Chris LI

@Green 
Edging is pretty big on LI. The commercial landscapers have it down. Most do it with a string trimmer on a weekly basis when they mow. Because it's done regularly, they fly with the trimmer and still do a pretty good job. Some guys have dedicated stick edgers for overgrown edges. Their commercial mowers have inboard wheels, so the decks overhang the edge without catching a wheel. That's a definite advantage.

What you can do for that grade above the sidewalk is to run your string trimmer in the traditional horizontal position, skimming the turf a couple (2 or 3) inches away from the edge to knock it down, so you don't have to overhang the edge with the mower wheel. I have some tight curves along my main flowerbed in the front yard, where I use that trick. First, I'll walk forwards, holding the trimmer vertically, to cut the edge in, and then I'll flip the trimmer horizontally and walk backwards to get the curves and corners.


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## Chris LI

It's been a week since the last mow. Topgrowth is still occurring at about 1" in the sunny (mostly front yard) areas. Since we had only 0.07" of rain (Bond, James Bond, lol), I elected to mulch @2.5" with the mulch plug, instead of side discharging. After cross-hatching, I put the bag on and followed last weeks stripes in the front to pick up larger pieces. In the back I made clockwise passes, outside towards the inside and made some back and forth passes, before putting the bag on. We should have the first hard frost tonight. We're at 32* now.


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## social port

Chris LI said:


> Their commercial mowers have inboard wheels, so the decks overhang the edge without catching a wheel. That's a definite advantage.
> 
> What you can do for that grade above the sidewalk is to run your string trimmer in the traditional horizontal position, skimming the turf a couple (2 or 3) inches away from the edge to knock it down, so you don't have to overhang the edge with the mower wheel. I have some tight curves along my main flowerbed in the front yard, where I use that trick. First, I'll walk forwards, holding the trimmer vertically, to cut the edge in, and then I'll flip the trimmer horizontally and walk backwards to get the curves and corners.


I am able to put my deck over the sidewalk while still keeping my tires on the lawn. It does a pretty good job.
I have a spot on my driveway where the ground is higher than the concrete, so I use a technique much like you describe above. I've been able to keep the area looking tidy. In the future, I may try to take out dirt underneath the turf to bring the ground level with the driveway.



Chris LI said:


> We should have the first hard frost tonight. We're at 32* now.


I think you and I are going to be enjoying nearly the same temperature tonight :thumbup:


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## Chris LI

@social port 
Yup, we got our killing frost on Friday night/Saturday morning. My home weather station showed 26* for the low. Interestingly, my Norway maple dropped a decent amount of green leaves overnight. It's been warmer than average, so they haven't changed color, but the temp drop shocked the tree to drop a bunch. Wind was not a factor, as the leaves dropped straight down, below the canopy. Temps have bounced back up and it's already over 50* today. The Red maple in the backyard dropped 99.9% of its leaves, so that area is getting some sun that it's not seen since the spring.


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## Chris LI

Unseasonably warm temps made for a nice day with high of 63*, although I wasn't able to take advantage of it. A little slushy snow is predicted for tomorrow.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I side discharged grass/leaves and mulched them in the circular/Zamboni/back and forth patterns to mince everything up. I finished the main front refreshing the stripes (without striping attachment) I put down a couple of weeks ago. The Norway maple still has green leaves, which is quite odd at this point, and hasn't really had any color change for the season (usually it turns yellow by Halloween, or shortly thereafter). The grass is still showing some growth.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I side discharged grass/leaves and mulched them in the circular/Zamboni/back and forth patterns to mince everything up. I finished the main front refreshing the stripes (without striping attachment) I put down a couple of weeks ago. The Norway maple still has green leaves, which is quite odd at this point, and hasn't really had any color change for the season (usually it turns yellow by Halloween, or shortly thereafter). The grass is still showing some growth.


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## M32075

I still have a little growth also. Watching your thread curious when you do your final nitrogen drop we're getting close for sure.


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## Chris LI

M32075 said:


> I still have a little growth also. Watching your thread curious when you do your final nitrogen drop we're getting close for sure.


I'm contemplating skipping it this year to see if I notice a difference in the spring. However, I'll post (or tag you, if I remember) when I would do it. I dropped a lot more urea this fall, so I want to see if that will make a difference. The conventional wisdom is changing about whether or not a winterizer is utilized enough to make it worthwhile. It's hard to break away from what works, so I'm still torn. It may come down to weather conditions and if proper rain is in the forecast. I pulled the caps off my 'poor man's irrigation system' and I really don't want to drag hose at this time of year to water it in.


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## Chris LI

Chris LI said:


> M32075 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still have a little growth also. Watching your thread curious when you do your final nitrogen drop we're getting close for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> However, I'll post (or tag you, if I remember) when I would do it.
Click to expand...

Yesterday, I mowed/mulched leaves @2.5" with the side discharge chute. Clippings are still present. Previously mulched leaves have mostly been broken down from last week's mulching. Most leaves are down now except for some of my Norway maple's and plenty (most) are still up on the row of Red Oaks across the street.

The driveline on the Snapper broke down during the mowing session. In 2 minutes, I had the rubber wheel off and discovered the bearing let go. I looked up some parts, and hopefully it will be a $10 repair. I put that thing through hell, so I'm not sweating it.

I ran out just after 3:30 today to take some quick soil temps and confirm info off the mower before ordering parts.

Front Main (full sun) 49.5*
Rear Part sun/shade avg 47.8*-48.9*
Rear Shade 46.2*

We still have some time before winterizer.


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> Front Main (full sun) 49.5*
> Rear Part sun/shade avg 47.8*-48.9*
> Rear Shade 46.2*
> 
> We still have some time before winterizer.


This makes sense. Up here on the mainland, but well inland, we are about 6-7 soil temp degrees cooler (assuming you, too, are measuring at 4 or 5 inches down). I had noticeable clippings on my lower back lawn yesterday, after 13 days (40 degrees). The upper back lawn stopped growing a couple of weeks ago for all intents and purposes and is colder.

Makes me wonder how the coastal CT soil temps are. I wanted to winterize on Thanksgiving if possible down there. It's a low maintenance lawn, so it may not be growing anymore no matter the temps.


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## Chris LI

Hey @Green ,

Thanks! It's great to hear feedback from regional areas to see what's going on in various microclimates. That's why I started the Forsythia bloom thread. Yes, I agree. I think you are close, but not there yet. The ocean is the mitigating factor, for me. We have lagging Springs and lagging Falls along the coast, so I'm always curious as to where folks are during the season. I'm always anxious in early spring and relaxed in late fall because I'm not where everyone else is, as far as seasonal growth. I took the readings out of my own curiosity and was hoping for feedback from other members.

Thanks, again!


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## M32075

Chris LI said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M32075 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still have a little growth also. Watching your thread curious when you do your final nitrogen drop we're getting close for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> However, I'll post (or tag you, if I remember) when I would do it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yesterday, I mowed/mulched leaves @2.5" with the side discharge chute. Clippings are still present. Previously mulched leaves have mostly been broken down from last week's mulching. Most leaves are down now except for some of my Norway maple's and plenty (most) are still up on the row of Red Oaks across the street.
> 
> The driveline on the Snapper broke down during the mowing session. In 2 minutes, I had the rubber wheel off and discovered the bearing let go. I looked up some parts, and hopefully it will be a $10 repair. I put that thing through hell, so I'm not sweating it.
> 
> I ran out just after 3:30 today to take some quick soil temps and confirm info off the mower before ordering parts.
> 
> Front Main (full sun) 49.5*
> Rear Part sun/shade avg 47.8*-48.9*
> Rear Shade 46.2*
> 
> We still have some time before winterizer.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update. Interesting soil temps. I lowered my cut Saturday so I got a nice amount of clippings. Going to cut again hopefully Wed at same lowered height and check my clippings.


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## Chris LI

M32075 said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, I'll post (or tag you, if I remember) when I would do it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, I mowed/mulched leaves @2.5" with the side discharge chute. Clippings are still present. Previously mulched leaves have mostly been broken down from last week's mulching. Most leaves are down now except for some of my Norway maple's and plenty (most) are still up on the row of Red Oaks across the street.
> 
> The driveline on the Snapper broke down during the mowing session. In 2 minutes, I had the rubber wheel off and discovered the bearing let go. I looked up some parts, and hopefully it will be a $10 repair. I put that thing through hell, so I'm not sweating it.
> 
> I ran out just after 3:30 today to take some quick soil temps and confirm info off the mower before ordering parts.
> 
> Front Main (full sun) 49.5*
> Rear Part sun/shade avg 47.8*-48.9*
> Rear Shade 46.2*
> 
> We still have some time before winterizer.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the update. Interesting soil temps. I lowered my cut Saturday so I got a nice amount of clippings. Going to cut again hopefully Wed at same lowered height and check my clippings.
Click to expand...

Today's plan changed for a couple of reasons: Delivery date for the drive bearing changed to 12/3 and temps dropped a bit. Original plan was to replace the bearing today and maybe mow/mulch leaves today or definitely tomorrow or Sunday.

Since the bearing didn't arrive and temps dropped with snow predicted Sunday-Tuesday, I blew out the front beds and some of the back to mow/mulch as much as possible, so the leaves can break down before soil temps drop too much. This is probably the last mulching before I go to all-bagging for the vegetable garden.

I took a break from mowing for a few minutes to take soil temps at 4:30:

Front Main (full sun) 46.9*
Rear part sun/shade 43.7*-46.5*
Rear Shade 43.2*

For those interested, the probe on my instant read thermometer is 4.25" long.

Grass is still growing at my location, so no winterizer yet, for me. After 6 days since the last mow, I took close to 1/2" off the top with on average. This is in full sun. A few clippings were closer to 1" and some were minuscule.

It's unlikely that I will winterize, but it would be at least one week more with the readings I am seeing at my location.


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## Chris LI

Oh, forgot before and after photos:*

*note: not a single leaf was bagged-all mulched by side discharging.








I still have some of these to look forward to...they will probably be mulch for the vegetable garden.


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## Green

I was mulch mowing until the soil temps were around that temp range, too. I learned last year (the hard way) not to keep doing it as it gets colder, as we discussed previously.

Did you switch to regular mulch mowing without side discharge for the last pass? Because I don't see any remnants.


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> Did you switch to regular mulch mowing without side discharge for the last pass? Because I don't see any remnants.


No. I kept the side discharge chute on for all of it. After a few perimeter passes, I used the Zamboni pattern with an extra loop here and there to cut into heavier areas with the suction side (left) towards the pile/furrow to chop up some bigger pieces. After that I made back and forth passes from house to street and finished with the diagonal passes, to finely chop the residual pieces, to clean it up and kinda follow the old striping.


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## Green

Someday when you have time, could you detail the zamboni pattern?

Also, I don't get how the subesquent alternating back-and forth passes with the discharge didn't spray the remaining fragments everywhere in both directions...let alone onto the sidewalk or mulch bed.

Finally, when you made your diagonal passes, how did you turn, when it appears some passes had to end inside the mulch bed according to the lines?

This is like a well-rehearsed magic/illusion effect that I feel compelled to understand, but am not quite sure exactly how it works/accomplishes the result.


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## Chris LI

Today was a big lawn day. In short, I accomplished what I wanted to do in the front, and what I needed to do in the backyard.

Mower drive repair -
First, I knocked out the blown drive bearing from the assembly with a 3 lb lump hammer and replaced it. I don't have a press, so I had to get creative. I caught the edge of the new bearing with a pair of Vise Grips and used a pair of diagonal cutters to pinch/scrape/peen the edge of the bearing case to seat it on one half. Since it could still rotate without falling out, I rotated it 180* and did the other side. After cleaning all parts, I sprayed garage door dry lube on (couldn't find my bike chain dry lube) and reassembled with success. $10 part and an hour later, I was back in business.

Main front-
I spent A LOT of time. This may sound counterintuitive, but I raised HOC from 2.5" to 3", for a very good reason. I wanted to check growth after mulching (then bagging leaves). A lot of those Red Oaks across the street deposited their leaves in my yard, as usual. I basically did my final blowout of my beds, so I had a good amount to pick up. It's too cold for any additional leaves to break down, so I'm bagging everything from this point on. I started mulching with the Gator blade and mulch plug at 3", but too much was escaping due to the raised HOC. After a quick mulch, I started bagging, but the Gator wasn't pulling enough up, so I switched to the stock Snapper bagging blade and bagged clockwise at 3", which helped a lot. Then I bagged cross hatching square at 2.5". Final mow, bagged diagonally at 2". I picked up a lot of material, including chunks of brown mulch from the beds. I love the suction of the Hi Vac with the bagging blade. Each time I lowered the HOC, I noticed the leaf bits were smaller, so I know I picked up preciously mulched leaves which hadn't broken down yet. This was 4+ total mowings over about 2 hours. Yes, I still had plenty of clippings at the existing HOC of 2.5" (some were 1" long), so the grass is still growing. Plenty more clippings mixed with leaves at 2". Now, I'll have better seed to soil contact if I dormant seed.

Front Side Yard-
Since I spent waaaaay too much time, I did a 180*. Now I operated like a landscaper. Threw the side discharge chute on and went to town with the bagging blade at 2.5" Then dropped HOC to 2" and put the bagging chute on (takes 60 seconds) and bagged perpendicular to the street and then bagged diagonally. This was very efficient; only a half hour.

Backyard-

Side discharged/mulch plugged and bagged at 2.5". Ran out of daylight and got cold, so tomorrow's another day. Here's some photos.



Bagged clippings and leaves at 2.5", showing growth. I would not winterize yet.


Not too shabby for a nomix, Zoysia infested lawn. Lol


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## M32075

I have to agree not to shabby at all. The on point edging is impressive and I do like the zoysia mix in the hellstrip makes the summer survivable


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## Chris LI

M32075 said:


> I have to agree not to shabby at all. The on point edging is impressive and I do like the zoysia mix in the hellstrip makes the summer survivable


Thank you. That hellstrip is a love/hate thing for me, exactly for the reason you mentioned. As much as I hate Zoysia (in the north), it has saved my hellstrip from being cooked. I try to encourage the kbg to hold up against it with cultural practices/fertilization, to make a mix, kind of like the bluemuda trend in the transition zone. I just can't take 7 months of dormancy. However, I don't want to try a reno, for fear of failure with no true irrigation and workload in August/September. Maybe one day...


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## M32075

I have a big love hate in my backyard in full sun no irrigation with a nimble weed issue that I'm clueless how to deal with. After the new year I'm going to try to come up with a game plan for it.


----------



## Green

M32075 said:


> I have a big love hate in my backyard in full sun no irrigation with a nimble weed issue that I'm clueless how to deal with. After the new year I'm going to try to come up with a game plan for it.


Best thing is Tenacity plus surfactant blanket spray at 4oz per acre rate 2-3 times every 2-3 weeks, starting in July. It'll kill it. It will also injure the Zoysia and thin it, but not kill it outright. It'll stress the cool season grass slightly. Nick, how much of that brown do you think is Nimble vs Zoysia?

Guys: I still haven't gotten to winterize my family member's lawn in coastal CT. It's either Monday or I lose the chance. You guys probably have a bit more leeway where you are.


----------



## M32075

Green said:


> M32075 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a big love hate in my backyard in full sun no irrigation with a nimble weed issue that I'm clueless how to deal with. After the new year I'm going to try to come up with a game plan for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best thing is Tenacity plus surfactant blanket spray at 4oz per acre rate 2-3 times every 2-3 weeks, starting in July. It'll kill it. It will also injure the Zoysia and thin it, but not kill it outright. It'll stress the cool season grass slightly. Nick, how much of that brown do you think is Nimble vs Zoysia?
> 
> Guys: I still haven't gotten to winterize my family member's lawn in coastal CT. It's either Monday or I lose the chance. You guys probably have a bit more leeway where you are.
Click to expand...

From what I can tell the nimble only in the cool season area the zoysia to thick for it to spread


----------



## g-man

@M32075 if all the brown is nimblewill, then I think round up is the best option.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> M32075 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a big love hate in my backyard in full sun no irrigation with a nimble weed issue that I'm clueless how to deal with. After the new year I'm going to try to come up with a game plan for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best thing is Tenacity plus surfactant blanket spray at 4oz per acre rate 2-3 times every 2-3 weeks, starting in July. It'll kill it. It will also injure the Zoysia and thin it, but not kill it outright. It'll stress the cool season grass slightly. Nick, how much of that brown do you think is Nimble vs Zoysia?
> 
> Guys: I still haven't gotten to winterize my family member's lawn in coastal CT. It's either Monday or I lose the chance. You guys probably have a bit more leeway where you are.
Click to expand...

Funny you mention winterizing timing. After a good freeze on Thursday (27* at 8 pm) we had a rainy warm front come through yesterday (52* at 8 pm). Temps rose throughout the night to a high of 59* today. We had almost 4" of rain total, between yesterday and today (0.61" yesterday; 3.24" so far today). I took several soil temps (front and back) today around 3 pm with all at 48* +/- 0.3*. I was thinking about trying a test plot or two where I dropped winterizer, but now I don't know if I'll have time. I would have mowed to bag leaves and check clippings today, but it was way too wet.


----------



## Chris LI

M32075 said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M32075 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a big love hate in my backyard in full sun no irrigation with a nimble weed issue that I'm clueless how to deal with. After the new year I'm going to try to come up with a game plan for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best thing is Tenacity plus surfactant blanket spray at 4oz per acre rate 2-3 times every 2-3 weeks, starting in July. It'll kill it. It will also injure the Zoysia and thin it, but not kill it outright. It'll stress the cool season grass slightly. Nick, how much of that brown do you think is Nimble vs Zoysia?
> 
> Guys: I still haven't gotten to winterize my family member's lawn in coastal CT. It's either Monday or I lose the chance. You guys probably have a bit more leeway where you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I can tell the nimble only in the cool season area the zoysia to thick for it to spread
Click to expand...

It sounds like you may have thoughts on a reno at some point. What about an overseed, once you get some weed issues better under control? I will be trying to beat back some Zoysia with Tenacity to keep it under control, and get my kbg to spread. Maybe and idea for you? I'm very curious about something, however. Did you previously have a pool over the large round green area?

One of the techniques I have used to combat Zoysia, is to use cultural practices to favor cool season grasses. Mowing high and fertilizing in the cooler spring and fall months. Sometimes, this meant my hellstrip getting a little less fertilizer, since I skipped a late spring/early summer app. I think this helped a little bit.


----------



## M32075

Chris LI said:


> M32075 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> Best thing is Tenacity plus surfactant blanket spray at 4oz per acre rate 2-3 times every 2-3 weeks, starting in July. It'll kill it. It will also injure the Zoysia and thin it, but not kill it outright. It'll stress the cool season grass slightly. Nick, how much of that brown do you think is Nimble vs Zoysia?
> 
> Guys: I still haven't gotten to winterize my family member's lawn in coastal CT. It's either Monday or I lose the chance. You guys probably have a bit more leeway where you are.
> 
> 
> 
> From what I can tell the nimble only in the cool season area the zoysia to thick for it to spread
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It sounds like you may have thoughts on a reno at some point. What about an overseed, once you get some weed issues better under control? I will be trying to beat back some Zoysia with Tenacity to keep it under control, and get my kbg to spread. Maybe and idea for you? I'm very curious about something, however. Did you previously have a pool over the large round green area?
> 
> One of the techniques I have used to combat Zoysia, is to use cultural practices to favor cool season grasses. Mowing high and fertilizing in the cooler spring and fall months. Sometimes, this meant my hellstrip getting a little less fertilizer, since I skipped a late spring/early summer app. I think this helped a little bit.
Click to expand...

Yes the round green area was a pool. Last couple of years I have been cutting low and using organic fertilizer during the summer just 2 applications to get the zoysia to spread. I figured it's easier embrace it then fight it. The wife and I are on the fence about putting in a built in pool so really haven't addressed the backyard besides a patio and a fence.


----------



## M32075

g-man said:


> @M32075 if all the brown is nimblewill, then I think round up is the best option.


It's mostly zoysia. Nimble is only in the cool season area mostly in the right side top corner.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> I took several soil temps (front and back) today around 3 pm with all at 48* +/- 0.3*. I was thinking about trying a test plot or two where I dropped winterizer, but now I don't know if I'll have time. I would have mowed to bag leaves and check clippings today, but it was way too wet.


You should! Sort of the opposite to what I'm doing (a no-N test plot, etc.) Even if you don't get to it until Monday evening, you should be able to still do a test plot before the snow/ice/whatever, since as of now they're saying it might not start until late at night. I think you can bank on it being cold enough to really limit further growth going forward, even if growth isn't 100% stopped just yet. Or, if you don't get to it and the soil stays warm enough, you could do it another time if you don't get to it.

As far as growth stopping, I don't find that growth really 100% stops over Winter, anyway...during those inevitable warm-ups throughout the Winter, it seems to always green up and grow a tiny bit (we're talking millimeters or less) because the top layers of soil seem to thaw. You can tell because areas that you edged get slightly shaggy, etc.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> I took several soil temps (front and back) today around 3 pm with all at 48* +/- 0.3*. I was thinking about trying a test plot or two where I dropped winterizer, but now I don't know if I'll have time. I would have mowed to bag leaves and check clippings today, but it was way too wet.
> 
> 
> 
> You should! Sort of the opposite to what I'm doing (a no-N test plot, etc.) Even if you don't get to it until Monday evening, you should be able to still do a test plot before the snow/ice/whatever, since as of now they're saying it might not start until late at night. I think you can bank on it being cold enough to really limit further growth going forward, even if growth isn't 100% stopped just yet. Or, if you don't get to it and the soil stays warm enough, you could do it another time if you don't get to it.
> 
> As far as growth stopping, I don't find that growth really 100% stops over Winter, anyway...during those inevitable warm-ups throughout the Winter, it seems to always green up and grow a tiny bit (we're talking millimeters or less) because the top layers of soil seem to thaw. You can tell because areas that you edged get slightly shaggy, etc.
Click to expand...

I wish I could have done the test plots, but weather, life, holidays, etc. got in the way and I missed the boat. I will definitely consider it for next year.

I'm still keeping an eye on the softball sized biosolids heavy drop, to see what happens. It's still the greenest spot in that area of the backyard.


----------



## Chris LI

Other than occasional stick and debris pickup, and scouting/hand picking Chickweed, I'm done for the season. The weather was warm enough, with some turf growth, but I never got the last mow in that I was hoping to do.

However, I haven't lost the itch for lawn care. I've been doing my homework for short and long term projects.

My short term project is a sprayer upgrade, as I hope to move towards utilizing more spray apps next year. Initially, I was thinking of purchasing a battery powered sprayer. However, I'm shying away from them due to cost and reliability issues I've discovered through research. Since my 15 year old 2.5 gallon sprayer is still holding up, I'm planning on a DFW wand upgrade, instead.

The long term project I'm considering (more like a pipe dream at this point), is acquiring a powered reel mower.

At first, I was interested in a JD 220E (Weeks Auction had my mouth watering), with swapping the fairway bedknife to obtain close to 1.5" HOC, but its probably not quite high enough to contend with unevenness, surface tree roots, and the level of care I can maintain throughout the summer (mowing frequency, irrigation, etc.).

Reevaluating my goals, I think a Tru-Cut H20 or P20 series (with added front roller) is a more realistic expectation of a nice mower to fulfill my needs. On the highest setting of the high range of the high set of mounting holes, I should be able to obtain 2.25" HOC. I can swap to my rotary for peak summer to go to 3", if necessary. There's lots of great info on the Tru-Cuts on TLF. Thanks, guys! Now I need just three things...funds, blessing from my better half, and most importantly, a reasonably priced working unit that is available less than 600-800 miles away! I'll keep looking and planning. The Swardsmans are really cool, but out of my price range.


----------



## Vtx531

I wonder if reel mower is really needed for anything 1.5" and above? Adding a roller to the back of your rotary might be the ticket for you.


----------



## Chris LI

Vtx531 said:


> I wonder if reel mower is really needed for anything 1.5" and above? Adding a roller to the back of your rotary might be the ticket for you.


Thanks for the suggestion. Actually, I do have the Toro Linestriping system and love it! I would like to try a powered for a few reasons:

1. cleaner cut with less injury to the leaf blade

1a. with less injury, hopefully a healthier, 
denser canopy and less opportunity for 
pathogens to enter plant, resulting in 
less pesticides to correct issues

2. more even cut

3. less chance of scalping at a slightly lower 
HOC (lawn is uneven)

4. long term goal of gradually 
lowering/leveling/repeat to lower HOC to 1" 
(or possibly lower)


----------



## Chris LI

So I lied.

I thought I was done for the season, but with 68*-69* today, it was t-shirt and jeans weather. This was either the last mow of the season and/or the first mow of the new season.

I broke out the Snapper and double cut the front, first at 2.5" to bag up debris, then at 2" to see how many clippings I had since the last mow on 12/7. After dropping to 2", I had 1" clippings, so it was well worth it. I considered dropping it one more notch to 1.5", but I didn't want to take a chance of scalping.

Back was also bag mowed at 2", which cleaned it up nicely, since it was last cut at 2.5".

The color has faded, but it was definitely not a charity mow. FYI-the last photo has the biosolids spot towards the center I have mentioned.

Boy, that felt good! I've NEVER mowed in January before. I hope it keeps me going until March.


----------



## Green

Hey Chris. Unbelievable, isn't it?

How did you get an inch of clippings at 2.0 if you mowed at 2.5 first and then 2.0? Did you piece together the two halves? Or save some area unmowed at 2.5? Lol.

I was tempted, but it was not necessary in my case, or practical, as there was not time, the equipment was clean and run out of gas, and by taking off a bit it would lose protection from the cold. Mine did not grow anywhere near as much as yours did over the past month and a half...and only parts of the front and side did...definitely not the back.

That said, I have little doubt there will be a January mow someday for me, as well, since the climate is so much more variable these days and as time goes on.

What I do think, is my first mow of the year is likely to be in the late Winter by a significant margin. I once mowed in late Feb. a few years ago, and feel that could happen again this year; even if we have a cold Feb into March as predicted, I will likely get out out there on the first few dry days after any snow melts, and mow in the front. That said, it's also possible that the extra bit of Winter growth could simply desiccate and shrivel up during the rest of Jan and Feb, so I won't have to mow until March.


----------



## M32075

I was tempted to pull out the lawnmower but decided not to but wish I did for a quick cleanup. But had to take down the Christmas lights,wash three cars and clean the outside house windows.


----------



## Chris LI

@Green 
Good catch on the math! I didn't put the clippings against a ruler, but I think I have a reasonable explanation (and if you buy that, a bridge to sell, Lol).

Seriously, the clippings may not have been a full inch, but close to it, for the following reasons:

1. I don't believe the notches for the height adjustments are incrementally by the half inch. The 2.5" setting (middle - #4 of 7) is slightly higher at about 2.625" (2-5/8"), but I got tired of typing that much and figured most folks would relate better anyway. The setting lower does seem to be 2".

2. At the 2" setting the suction is even more impressive, so I think it stands the grass blades up a smidge more to take that extra little bit off (I lost a chunk of entrance mat to the sunroom yesterday and would have lost the whole thing, jamming up my mower, if I hadn't stomped on it and pushed the mower away).

3. I cut diagonally on the second pass and picked up some grass that might have had a lean to it from: wheel tracks, undulations, etc. I love making the second cut at a different angle and really can see a more uniform height.


----------



## Chris LI

M32075 said:


> I was tempted to pull out the lawnmower but decided not to but wish I did for a quick cleanup. But had to take down the Christmas lights,wash three cars and clean the outside house windows.


I know what you mean. I had planned on taking outside Xmas decorations down, covering the patio set with a tarp, etc., but it was just way too nice to start with those things (I eventually did them too [at least most of them], into the dark).

The lawn nut in me took over and I reprioritized my list. :lol:


----------



## Chris LI

Since the reel mowing bit me, I figured that I would play around with my vintage 1950's Folbate push reel mower. Last winter, I purchased a backlapping kit, but didn't get a chance to use it. I looked into this fall, but didn't want to take the side case off to hook up a drill for fear of breaking something that I couldn't replace.

I thought about it and decided to adjust the reel to bedknife, since they weren't making any sort of contact. Since I lubed it up last fall, all I had to do was use a deep 5/8" socket. A couple of adjustments with several passes back and forth on my 150' sidewalk and I had much better contact. I decided not to try to cut paper yet, until I get most of the rust off. I sprayed it down with PB Blaster for storage. We'll see what happens.


----------



## Chris LI

I had a little time to play around the Folbate mower today. I made some passes up and down the driveway to knock some more rust off. I took a closer look at the reel to bedknife contact and saw that I still needed to tighten the right side a little more, as the very edge wasn't making any contact. After tightening and a few passes, I figured the blades were dry enough to try to cut paper. To my surprise, it did! The right side needs a smidge more contact, but I quit while I was ahead, and sprayed it down more with PB. Little by little, we'll get there. The max HOC is about 1.5", so I'll need to drop my rotary for the first spring mow, so I have a shot at trying this bad boy out.


----------



## CDarb

Nice journal!

What town you live in Chris? I live in Bethpage.


----------



## Chris LI

CDarb said:


> Nice journal!
> 
> What town you live in Chris? I live in Bethpage.


Thank you! I'm in Bay Shore.


----------



## Chris LI

I lost a week out in the yard due to a stomach virus and several nights ripping my washing machine apart to replace the bearings and front gasket. She's working on OT now to catch up on laundry. :roll:

I did have a few minutes today to pick some sticks up from the 60 mph winds from the storm the other day and survey a few areas. The Milo test patch is still green and some of the areas in front look a shade greener than last week. I think the warmer than average temperatures and increasing hours of daylight are helping with color, a little. With the mild winter so far, I'm not surprised.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> I did have a few minutes today to pick some sticks up from the 60 mph winds from the storm the other day and survey a few areas. The Milo test patch is still green and some of the areas in front look a shade greener than last week. I think the warmer than average temperatures and increasing hours of daylight are helping with color, a little. With the mild winter so far, I'm not surprised.


That's cool. My color decreased again, and everything is firmly dormant now with no hint of growth at all.

But I had similar results from the other lawns and areas in mine I've been watching that got various mid-Fall fertilizer timings or large apps, or lots of spoon-feeding apps in October via liquid. So much so, that if my Winterizing experiment turns out a certain way, I've already rethought my entire approach to Fall fertilization (and picked up tidbits from the PhD pros like Doug Soldat in the process). Check out my journal and recent posts this past month for some details. Hint: it involves less of a pause, and utilizing more methylene ureas as a lazy man's spoon-feeding approach.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> That's cool. My color decreased again, and everything is firmly dormant now with no hint of growth at all.
> 
> But I had similar results from the other lawns and areas in mine I've been watching that got various mid-Fall fertilizer timings or large apps, or lots of spoon-feeding apps in October via liquid. So much so, that if my Winterizing experiment turns out a certain way, I've already rethought my entire approach to Fall fertilization (and picked up tidbits from the PhD pros like Doug Soldat in the process). Check out my journal and recent posts this past month for some details. Hint: it involves less of a pause, and utilizing more methylene ureas as a lazy man's spoon-feeding approach.


Thanks! Yes, I've been checking it out and your test plot thread, too. I'm curious as to what results you will see. I'm keeping it in mind for last year and am thinking about FAS (or similar FeATURE) apps during the season and leading into later fall. As you know, I skipped my winterizer app, but did go heavy on multiple fall urea apps. I'm considering a heavy Milo app around Labor Day and same frequency (but lighter dosage) urea apps for the fall.


----------



## Chris LI

Got some fresh air and enjoyed the 53* sunny day here with lightly raking and dormant seeding. Temps are expected to drop to the 20's later in the week, just in time to start incorporating the seed into the soil.

I used the 50/50 Mazama/Beyond blend on the Bewitched mono mini renos (from two years ago) and newer mini renos from this past fall. I used the 3-way Mazama/Beyond/Bewitched over all other areas. I used roughly 1 lb./k and probably 2 lbs. on thin areas, nuked bentgrass, and zoysia infested areas that I hit with Tenacity. I decided to drop the tri-rye now on my high traffic trouble spots, instead of waiting until spring.

Milo spot is still holding color, as is most of the mini renos from last fall.


----------



## Green

It was about the same here today...low to mid 50s.

Did your grass finally go completely dormant and pretty much cease growing the past few weeks?


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Did your grass finally go completely dormant and pretty much cease growing the past few weeks?


Yes, in some areas, particularly the backyard which faces north. However, that Milo spot is still hanging in there. Lol

I would say that only about 15% went completely dormant.


----------



## Chris LI

Scouted for germination of dormant seeding yesterday and today with negative results.

Last night I purchased a 15" soil test probe from Accuproducts, to get some samples done and maybe another option for "drill and fill" under my maples and areas of compaction.


----------



## Chris LI

After getting some work done on my truck, I got the first mow in for the spring season, and it was more than just a charity mow. I double cut (cross hatch) almost the entire front yard with my vintage Folbate reel mower at it's max HOC (~1.5"). In addition to clipping up some thatch, I definitely had some green clippings. The zoysia/kbg hellstrip fought me a bit with the thick zoysia thatch, but after 6-8 passes, it trimmed it up nicely to expose the kbg to some more sunlight.

Night temps were a little chilly (34*), but it warmed up nicely to 58* and it felt really good to be out there with a sense of accomplishment. Spring greenup is definitely here and with some warmer temps on the way, so hopefully the dormant seed will pop this week. I think I saw one yesterday that had just emerged, but couldn't find it today.

I finished up with blowing off the mower with compressed, WD-40 and 1/2 turn tightening reel to bedknife.


----------



## Green

All the talk about how your area lags in Spring...so much for that this year! Sounds like you're no further behind than us.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> All the talk about how your area lags in Spring...so much for that this year! Sounds like you're no further behind than us.


Keeping my fingers crossed...weather on the 8's just predicted 60* for tomorrow and 50's for the rest of the week.


----------



## social port

@Chris LI, where do you source the BioPlex? You've interested me, and I want to look into a bit more.


----------



## Chris LI

social port said:


> @Chris LI, where do you source the BioPlex? You've interested me, and I want to look into a bit more.


I source it from a local large turf supplier, All Pro Horticulture, in Lindenhurst, NY. They mainly sell in bulk, but do have a walk up counter to sell small quantities to the public. One of their reps turned me on to it after a discussion about organics, Milo, etc.


----------



## Chris LI

It hit 62* today (low was 42*). My soil sampler probe arrived today from Accuproducts, and was promptly put to work. I collected enough cores for my two front yard samples, but I ran out of time to sample the backyard. Tomorrow is another day.


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday, I collected another bag of sample cores for the "west backyard".

Today, no chance to get the last sample for the lawn "east backyard", because I spent 2 hours at Costco with a packed parking lot for "bread, milk, eggs" with Covid-19, concerns. Maybe tomorrow.


----------



## kds

Do you know what the soil temp in your area is currently?


----------



## Chris LI

kds said:


> Do you know what the soil temp in your area is currently?


I have not taken a reading with my instant read meat thermometer, but it should be in the very high 40's according to greencastonline.com. It hit a high of 69* in my backyard today and is currently 58*. Both the air and soil temps are above normal. Green Cast has been fairly close to actual temps in my area, despite some of the inconsistencies other members have seen with relation to their areas.


----------



## Chris LI

I was happy to get my last (4th) soil sample for the lawn, but was in for a great disappointment to discover the neighbor behind me cut down their forsythia bush. It had been my microclimate indicator for PreM for many years.


----------



## Chris LI

Forsythia is blooming at least 2 weeks early, as most have observed. However 1 week + until 4/1, so no corn gluten for me yet.

Work has been nuts, so soil samples are waiting to be mailed.

Had a little time to run Folbate mower over front lawn with a single pass (E-W).

Most of front yard is out of dormancy, but backyard still has a ways to go. TTTF is ahead of kbg (no surprise).


----------



## Chris LI

Pulled 1-5 gallon pail of weeds (mostly Chickweed and a little Hairy Bittercress) out of the lawn.

Pulled 2-5 gallon pails of Chickweed on steroids and a 2' diameter patch of Hairy Bittercress out of my front main bed. The Chickweed completely engulfed some of my Creeping Phlox. That's the problem with good fertility and good soil, you grow good weeds too.:roll:


----------



## Chris LI

Mowed with push reel mower main front and front side in N-S direction. Balmy 67* and sunny today, which is rare for the end of March. I still need to do my spring clean up.


----------



## Chris LI

Fired up the Snapper and bagged the front to pick up leaves, twigs, etc. and cleaned up a few leaves in the back @ 2".

Then, I broke out the Folbate and reel mowed the front @ 1.5". I had decent clipping yield on the main front, and some on the front side yard. The front is completely out of dormancy (cool season, at least), and the back might be completely out of dormancy, but is growing slowly in most areas.

For those interested in my kbg/zoysia hellstrip, here is a photo from Monday. There is a slightly greener hue to that  weed, when I looked at it today.


----------



## Chris LI

Between work being crazy and weather not cooperating, I missed my planned 4/1 app of PreM (corn gluten). Today was shopping/errand day, so not too much lawn work was done. I reel mowed both sides of the front, picked a few Hairy Bittercress and blew/swept up a mess of red maple flowers off the deck, patio, and driveway, so it wasn't a total loss (especially since I squeezed in a trip in to the BD) :beer: . The red maples are little messy in the spring, but worth the shade in the summer.

Of course I had to edit my post because I forgot an important item. I finally mailed off my soil samples to Waypoint which I took weeks ago but got jammed up with work, life, priorities, etc. This is the first time I've taken samples in close to 20 years (yeah, I should have known better) of being into this hobby, so I'm anxious to get the results. I had to wait outside the P.O. on line, so I thought the line was long, until I remembered the 6' rule. How the world has changed in just a few weeks.


----------



## Chris LI

It was a productive lawn day. After picking a few Hairy Bittercress and Chickweed, I got to business. I blew out the beds and finally string trimned/edged for the first time this season.

I mowed both front and back with 2 passes. I wasn't picking up enough debris for my taste, so I lowered the Snapper to 1.5" to match the reel mower HOC. It worked great and surprisingly, didn't scalp any areas, just scraped the deck on a few. I think the leveling I did last fall helped.

I dropped my corn gluten on the front, only, at 40 lbs./2.5k, which is slightly lower than the recommended 20 lbs./k. This should be enough PreM without crazy amounts of N (1.6 as opposed to 1.9 organic N) [I try for about 6 lbs. N/k per year, with 2/3 in the fall, so this is pretty much on track]. The back was still too cold (soil temp) for CG, and I still need about another week for the red maple flowers to finish dropping, to bag them up, anyway.


----------



## Chris LI

Picked a few Hairy Bittercress/Chickweed and blew/swept up some more red maple flowers off the deck/patio. Hopefully, they are tapering off soon. Found more and more dormant seedlings. The oldest are about 10 days old. Working on setting my first Tenacity app date and whether to blanket most areas and spot app seeded areas, or go with total blanket app. Weed pressure/work & family responsibilities will probably govern the decision. Turf is taking off with temps cracking 60* the last couple of days (60* yesterday and 63* today). Corn gluten was lightly watered in last night by Mother Nature.


----------



## Rswarren14

Giving you a follow!


----------



## Chris LI

Rswarren14 said:


> Giving you a follow!


Thanks! With similar lawns and goals, hopefully we can learn from each other's experiences and maybe others will benefit, too.


----------



## Chris LI

I got home to notice the warm, sunny weather (high of 65*) gave a boost in growth to show some unevenness. That gave me a great excuse to mow with the Folbate and exercise to build my cardio (and lungs), to stay in shape in case this damn disease gets me! I mowed front and back at the usual 1.5", and adjusted reel to bedknife halfway through since it looked like it was tearing instead of cutting the grass.

I finished off by blowing/sweeping red maple flowers off the deck (patio was ok).

The big finish was to check my e-mail and find the results from Waypoint. I'm impressed on the quick turnover, but not surprised, since I heard other members compliment them on promptness. The samples went out with USPS on Saturday and the email with results from Waypoint arrived at 2:44 pm today. The USPS is to be complimented, too, especially with all that is going on, as the package was delivered yesterday! I sent 4 samples, since the yard has 4 different soil conditions. No huge surprises, pH was pretty much what I expected, P was good, K was low (actually lower than I expected), OM was decent (some areas good-as expected), Fe was higher than expected. I'm glad I broke it into those sampling groups, as the differences are worth noting. I will post them at some point when I have a chance to redact name/address info. Suffice it to say, I have several supplies on hand, but not the ones that I really need to make corrections, and I really don't want to go to any stores nowadays with the Covid-19 outbreak in my area exploding exponentially. With K hard to come by with a mostly organic program, I've been struggling adding K, with spraying Guano. I was considering buying some SOP from a local supplier, once I got my soil report back to confirm my concerns (lime, too), but I think that's out the window for awhile. Maybe I can find some liquid K and an alkaline amendment on Amazon.


----------



## Green

Since we live in the same rough region, we both have huge numbers of disease cases nearby. Anything I buy now, for lawn or hardware products, I don't even go inside the stores. I order ahead of time by phone or computer, and ask them to bring it outside and put it next to the car. Then I get out and put it in the trunk of the car with gloves on. I let the products sit for a week or two at home, untouched, before using, so any virus particles dissipate. Same with packages ordered by mail.

Just looked up Hairy Bittercress. That must be what has been putting up white flowers lately (maybe Chickweed, too). I see the flowers all over the neighborhood.


----------



## Mark B

Chris LI said:


> It was a productive lawn day. After picking a few Hairy Bittercress and Chickweed, I got to business. I blew out the beds and finally string trimned/edged for the first time this season.


That damn hairy bittercress huh? Seems to flower and seed within a couple of days! Its got a heck of a survival plan.


> I mowed both front and back with 2 passes. I wasn't picking up enough debris for my taste, so I lowered the Snapper to 1.5" to match the reel mower HOC. It worked great and surprisingly, didn't scalp any areas, just scraped the deck on a few. I think the leveling I did last fall helped.


Lawn levelling is my new favorite thing! Hard work but very rewarding, definitely worth doing to prevent scalping at the least, not to mention a superior cut.


> I dropped my corn gluten on the front, only, at 40 lbs./2.5k, which is slightly lower than the recommended 20 lbs./k. This should be enough PreM without crazy amounts of N (1.6 as opposed to 1.9 organic N) [I try for about 6 lbs. N/k per year, with 2/3 in the fall, so this is pretty much on track]. The back was still too cold (soil temp) for CG, and I still need about another week for the red maple flowers to finish dropping, to bag them up, anyway.


I don't know much about corn gluten other than its used as an organic pre-m. Is there an npk ratio for it?


> Found more and more dormant seedlings. The oldest are about 10 days old.


I'm glad the dormant seeding is working for you, that's cool. My winter temps only went to 35F once or twice so I didn't consider it a good option.

Glad to hear you're keeping well and managing to get in the lawn. :thumbup: Mark

Oh and I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your soil test :nod:


----------



## Chris LI

@TheWhiteWizard
Thanks, Mark!

Hairy bittercress was not something I noticed many, many years ago. It seemed to invade overnight only 7-8 years ago. Since it was something that I had never seen, I used weed apps to ID it. I have a suspicion that weed seeds from it were deposited after a major storm/coastal storms or prevailing winds. It was a nightmare at first, because the first year I noticed them too late and they exploded when I went to hand pick them. Yikes! I quickly learned that I needed to get out in the yard early in the season to get them picked. It's gotten much better over time. Obviously, with chemical PreM, it would be much easier.

Definitely, the lawn levelling has a long way to go for me, especially when I had uninvited contractors trucks parking in my yard! However, it is most certainly worth it.

Corn gluten has an NPK ratio of 9-0-0. At the recommended rate of 20 lbs./1000 sq ft, it delivers 1.9 lbs. N per 1000 sq ft., which is a heavy application of N (not sure of the metric conversion, offhand). It's organic, so it's relatively slow release and depends on soil moisture and temperature, but really kicks when the environmental conditions allow.

You could seed early, even though you might not have the benefit of frost heave to work the seed into the soil. A spiker device is one of my favorite tools. I'll try to link to the one I have, or send a photo.

I'll try to post my results over the weekend, when I have a little more time.

Thanks for your inquiries, and stay safe!


----------



## Chris LI

Double cut perpendicularly both front and back with Folbate @ 1.5". Front is definitely growing well and back is coming along, albeit more slowly, due to the usual lower soil temperatures. Since I'm not going near any stores, the reasonably priced $20-25 bag of SOP and 5 bags of lime are out of the question for now. This week, I purchased some mail order liquid products to help bring up my K and pH levels. I couldn't find a gallon of liquid K and had to choose between a quart and 2.5 gallons of different products (I really wish Growth Products carried something smaller than 2.5's). Anyway, I went with a quart of 0-0-25 and a gallon of 15-0-15 from Simple Lawn Solutions and a 2.5 gal of Cal-Flo which I purchased from Do My Own. I plan on hitting the lawn with the 0-0-25 and Cal-Flo as soon as possible. To get more K down I'll have to use some 15-0-15, which kind of blows my plan of spoonfeeding with AS and I will go lighter on the 5-3-1 biosolids product I have in stock, to not overdo the N and P, since my P is good. I will be holding off on FeATURE (with AS), too, since my Fe is more than good. Not using AS will hurt my chances of bringing up my S #s, too, but I'm not sure that the AS would bring it up all that much, since I would be spoonfeeding with it anyway. I have Micro Booster from SLS in stock, so I can get my Mg, Mn, and S up with that. OM is pretty good, and I'll keep mulching those leaves. 
@TheWhiteWizard as requested:


----------



## g-man

Chris, liquid products wont make a dent in your soil needs. It will take a lot to get 70lb/ksqft of lime via liquid applications.


----------



## Chris LI

@g-man
Thanks. I ran the numbers off the Cal-Flo label and am only using this a a stop gap measure until this Covi-19 mess blows over. Unfortunately, this is my only option right now, as I won't go anywhere near stores with 42,000+ cases in my area (and that doesn't count the 103,000+ in NYC)...just straight to work and home, because my position is considered "essential". I would much rather go literally across the street to the big box store to pick it up, but that's out of the question for awhile.


----------



## Chris LI

Since the forecast is for rain tonight, I put down roughly 2 lbs/k of Humic DG.

I didn't feel like pulling out the power pruner, so I climbed the extension ladder with my sawzall with pruning blade to cut down a split 4" branch from last summer that I never pruned. Also, I spent a few minutes pruning suckers off that maple and the struggling maple further back (I cut 4 out of 5 trunks down over several years and am hoping that I can save it).

It finally got back into the 60's today (63*), after a few cool days in the 50's. Last night's low was 38*.


----------



## Chris LI

Double cut the front and most of the back at 1.5". I picked up a few sticks along the way. I'm starting to see good clipping production for the front yard. Scattered zoysia patches in the main lawn are greening up and blending, but the hellstrip with zoysia/elite kbg sticks out like a sore thumb. Hellstrip zoysia is still quite thatchy, while elite kbg is dark blue/green. High was 60* today. I'm really liking the density at 1.5" and am jonesing to do a reno with some leveling...maybe one day.


----------



## Chris LI

All of my online orders arrived today: Cal-Flo, SLS 0-0-25 and 15-0-15. I'm thinking of a foliar app of the 15-0-15, I just need to run the numbers on how much to use.


----------



## Chris LI

I've begun my foray into foliar apps of fertilizer (I did do a few urea sprays last fall). Although, it's not what I was originally expecting, as far as product. My original plan for the spring that I decided on last fall was AS with FeATURE. However, the K deficiency discovered in the results of my soil test, changed things a bit.

After double cutting the front and most of the back @ 1.5" with the reel mower, I used the recommended 4 oz/gal/k with SLS 15-0-15. The mow was needed and it helped dry off the leaf blades in time for the app.

The temps are about 15* lower than normal (in the 40's), so the zoysia is in stasis, so to speak. I was hoping the spoonfeeding would really perk things up. The back is still behind as usual, but the renos from last year look really good and the decimated Bewitched renos (rust) from 2 years ago are coming along nicely, for the most part.


----------



## Matix99def

Hey Chris. Awesome journal. 
4oz per 1000 seems low. Is that normal for liquid? My math shows that's like .05lb per k? How often do you plan to spray that? Did you decide to use the sls product strictly to correct the potassium deficiency in your soil?


----------



## Chris LI

Matix99def said:


> Hey Chris. Awesome journal.
> 4oz per 1000 seems low. Is that normal for liquid? My math shows that's like .05lb per k? How often do you plan to spray that? Did you decide to use the sls product strictly to correct the potassium deficiency in your soil?


Thank you. I hope some folks can pick up some ideas, and avoid some of my mistakes. 

Long story short, after playing with #s, weight per gallon, etc., I think it's fine. I'm looking to spoonfeed lightly, weekly, if I have the time to do it. I already have 1.6 lbs of organic N down (in the front), waiting to wake up with warmer temps, so I'm trying to not overdo the N. The hose end sprayer rate is 10 oz/1000, for a soil application. However, the foliar app rate is 4 oz/1000(per gal). I want to go foliar, for a quick response and keep it away from tree roots in some places. The fertilizer typically has more efficient uptake with foliar apps, and you can be more accurate with smaller amounts. As far as reviewing the product; I like it so far. It applies evenly and it has very small particles, 
so it doesn't clog my sprayer, not to mention, it has some organic and soil building goodies in it. We'll see what kind of response I get with it. I'm more concerned with bringing up my K levels, so I hope the foliar app helps. I have some 0-0-25 to pound the ground with, soon.


----------



## Matix99def

I'd be interested to see how that potassium input will increase in your soil readings. Do you plan to get another soil test next season?


----------



## Chris LI

Matix99def said:


> I'd be interested to see how that potassium input will increase in your soil readings. Do you plan to get another soil test next season?


Yes, I do. After a season of correcting deficiencies and easing up on P and Fe (not eliminating them), I want to see how I made out with my efforts, both soil test results and turf health/visual appearance. Once I feel it's safe to venture out to my supplier, I will be picking up SOP and lime. Right now, I'm intrigued by XGRN 8-1-8, because has a good amount of K and peptides. However, I'm not thrilled about the $58/bag. I do like the fact that it has a greens grade SGN, so you can spoonfeed with good coverage.


----------



## Chris LI

Today was more of a garden day with weeding my front beds and picking up remaining extension cords for the Christmas lights. Then it was mulch time:

I tried out the ColorBack brown mulch dye I ordered to avoid a trip to HD for 25 bags of mulch. I figured that I could get away with it, since most of my mulch was still in decent condition. Overall, I'm happy with it, but it took a lot longer than it should have, not because of the product, but my 10 year old 1 gallon junk sprayer was gummed up with crud.

I had a little time at the end and used my homemade Milo (Bioplex 5-3-1, actually) shaker container to give a little to weak, compacted areas.


----------



## g-man

What are the white and pink flowers?


----------



## Chris LI

g-man said:


> What are the white and pink flowers?


Creeping Phlox. They're a low growing spring perennial that typically flowers after the forsythia peaks. They're just about fully open now, and bloom about 2, maybe 3 weeks. I think they come in a couple of other colors, too.


----------



## Chris LI

Color is better, but the clipping yield is down, due to much lower than average seasonal temperatures. The cold, windy, damp weather set us back this week.

I double cut the front and cut about 1/3 of the back, because it barely needed it. I'm trying to keep mowing frequency up to aide in spreading. I dropped some Bioplex on weak areas.


----------



## Chris LI

Growth Products 0-0-25 is back in stock at Do My Own, so I just ordered a 2.5 gallon jug. Hopefully, I can get my SLS 0-0-25 down this weekend along with some 15-0-15, so I can start getting some of this down, when it comes in. Since it has a pH of 12, it will help to raise my pH a little, until I can get some lime down.


----------



## Trailz516

Yard looks great. I've never seen pics of your gardens until now but they really look good! I'm jealous of all the color you have for early spring.


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## Chris LI

Trailz516 said:


> Yard looks great. I've never seen pics of your gardens until now but they really look good! I'm jealous of all the color you have for early spring.


Thank you! We have a lot of perennials that are different heights with different bloom times, so we aim to have something in bloom at all times. We usually supplement with annuals, which add more color and tend to have a much longer bloom duration (not sure how that's going to play out this year). It takes some time and planning, but is attainable over time, just like "lawn goals" (yup, homage to RK). Don't be discouraged if you have an interest in trying to add some plants; just start with the basics.


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## Baretta

Are going to continue using molasses and baby shampoo this year? I really didn't notice a big difference with the shampoo applied every 2 weeks during the summer. I will experiment in a section of my lawn once I get my soil probe for core visuals.


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## Chris LI

@Baretta 
Yes, I still have them and plan on using both. The best part of the molasses is that I get to wipe the top of the jug with my finger and get to lick it. :lol: I think the baby shampoo has a diluted amount of Sodium Laureth Sulfate in it, compared to what can be mixed up with the raw powder. The agent in Simple Lawn Solutions Soil Loosener (not SLS), seems to be more effective. I have that and will be using it too.


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## Chris LI

I had to get some shopping done for the 1st time in 3 weeks besides going to and from work. After 8 hours of Costco, Supermarket 2x(including antibody testing for Covid-19) and the BD to get my wife her favorite cider (and an excuse to get craft beer, for me  ), I finally got to some lawn stuff (full disclosure, that included travel time).

Even though it was only two days ago since the last mow, the front needed it, and some of the back, too. I single cut with the Folbate. Then I broke out the hose for the first time this season and sprayed SLS 0-0-25 over about 5k at a reduced rate (coverage is listed at 3,200) with the RTU sprayer. Then I broke out the Blue Mule and hammered some Cal-Flo down at 1 quart per 1000, and used roughly 5 quarts (half the container). I'm quite happy with the application. I'll try another in a few weeks, and hopefully will pick up some granular lime by then. It will get watered in overnight to tomorrow.

We finally cracked 60* for the first time in almost 2 weeks, with 64* as the high. Color has finally darkened and I see decent tillering and spreading beginning to occur.


----------



## Chris LI

The weather is still funky and below normal temperatures. However, the turf darkened and clipping production improved, but so did the weeds. I really need to look to see if I have the catcher for the Folbate. I'm sending weed seeds everywhere, when I mow. I double cut the main front, single cut the side front, and mowed only 1/4 of the back, sone single & some double. I haven't had a chance to spray & pull Poa A, and Chickweed is killing me, too.


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## Babameca

@Chris LI Pictures, I love staring at people's lawns lol


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## Chris LI

Babameca said:


> @Chris LI Pictures, I love staring at people's lawns lol


Ok. I'll post some soon. I pride myself on posting them "warts and all", but I made a conscious decision to not take any today, because of all the Poa A seedheads and Chickweed I saw flying when I mowed. I need to trim and edge badly. It was a utility mow today, and not one for enjoyment. Thanks for the interest and I hope to have some posted soon. Rain is predicted for the next couple of days, so maybe by the weekend.


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## Babameca

@Chris LI No worries. I am actually using my own journal pics to look for improvement or eventual problems.


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## Chris LI

@Babameca 
Here's a few photos of the front. The back is still a little too rough to post. Maybe next time. 

Between lack of time and poor weather, I only had time to double cut the front and back at 1.5". No string trimming, edging or blowing off the sidewalk or driveway, so it's not polished. The neighbor's Cherry tree finally bloomed a few days ago and prevailing winds blew some petals into the front yard, as usual. No big deal.

Weather has been cold and wet (50's) until yesterday when we hit 76*. I worked and had something to do afterwards, and I could not mow last night, when I really needed to do so. Another 75* day, and the grass exploded. Healthy, dark and thick (Poa A, T, Chickweed, etc., too :x )

Soil temps/Fall Blitz kicked in (weak section in the back under the trees is still behind). I'm glad that I held off on a second app of 15-0-15, with the spring flush beginning to hit. Growth Products 0-0-25 arrived today. I need to get that down with some Tenacity/Triclopyr ASAP.

FYI-The section in front of the small bed in front of the front door is my favorite spot. It's mostly kbg and dark green-blue and dense. I'm loving the 1.5" reel mowed HOC. Not bad for a 60 year old manual reel mower. I am beginning my savings for an Edwin 2.1 (maybe 2.2 or 2.3 by the time I have enough $$). After thinking about getting a Tru-cut awhile back, I realized a Swardman is the way to go for my situation. This is in part to some very helpful advice from Lee @Reelrollers a few months back. Lee gave some very objective advice and I appreciate it. Even though I didn't win the contest, Reel Rollers will be at the top of my list, if the budget ever allows. I wanted to publicly give my thanks to Lee, but wanted to wait until the contest winner (actually winners (2), surprise!) were announced, in case I happened to be the winner.  I didn't want to sound patronizing or fake, if I was the winner. From my brief interactions with Lee, I believe he has the passion for turf care and mowing like many of us and appreciate his responsiveness to my questions and his suggestions.


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## Stuofsci02

Looks like it has greened up quite nicely.


----------



## Chris LI

Stuofsci02 said:


> Looks like it has greened up quite nicely.


Yes, definitely! Thank you! The density thankfully increased, too.


----------



## Babameca

Hello @Chris LI Lawn! You look pretty darn good!
Hey man, I am so happy so see it. As I told I love staring at guys lawns, well, the good ones. Now, you are ahead with the greenup. We go back to 50 max for a week or more. Did not you consider buy a used Toro or any other walk behind reel.
I know they all have their plus and cons, but rolling 230lbs on my grass made my bumpy soil, much flatter. And I just feel this thing can last forever! Talking about my GK526. I also was very close to jump on a Swardman but the price and some other little things like servicing and even sharpening that are not available in Canada cooled me down...overnight. Taller at 1.5 looks so much darker and fuller. I am in constant fight with me: go up or down and I am still there lol at 7/8. Thanks again for sharing all this!


----------



## Chris LI

@Babameca 
Thank you! Temps were below normal for close to two weeks (low 50's), so I was jonesing for some growth to kick in. I feel for you. Hang in there and you'll have that same sense of relief soon.

I was looking at both the Toros and JDs to buy used. They both are great machines from what I've seen, but I just won't be able to get a high enough HOC for my needs (freight cost is a consideration, too). There are other reasons, too. I'm a color junkie, I don't have proper irrigation (DIY), and the lawn is uneven, so I'm looking to stay 1"-2" (maybe 2.5"-3" for the two hottest weeks of the summer). Getting the reel sharpened, might be an issue, too. The extra weight for leveling is very appealing, however. I also like the cartridge setup for multi-use. I realize the cost is up there for the Swardmans, but I think it is a good investment, but I just don't have the funds (or can justify the expense) at this time.

I hope someone can benefit from various info that I post. When I get the withdrawal from lack of lawn maintenance during the winter, I get a little "turf nerdy" and learn from whatever research/experience I can find. Maybe other turf nerds might find some of this info helpful.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I'm like you, in that I also enjoy looking at lawns, both striped and non-striped. I don't discriminate! Lol


----------



## uts

Chris LI said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> In theory foliar and soil should not matter, but the rates that you can apply foliar are less. Why not feed the trees on purpose ?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. I have been using granular and soil spray apps almost all the time, with the fall blitz 99% granular urea, so the trees do get a good feeding. I was thinking that the dense matting of tree roots was sucking up most of the N, because that is the only reason I can attribute the slow growth of the lawn in that area. Other areas also receive less sunlight and also have cooler soil temps (I checked with a digital meat thermometer in the fall).
> 
> I go a little heavier with the fertilizer in those areas, to give an opportunity for both the grass and trees to benefit.
> 
> I broke up my soil test samples into multiple locations, to try to isolate this area (Backyard-East), to determine if there is a significant difference from the other areas. Pulling core samples was a challenge, too with the tree roots.
> 
> I even thinned the trees in a significant way, for tree health and to reduce shade. I was hoping that foliar apps would get the N directly to the turf, without the trees gobbling up the nutrients. I'm trying to eliminate as many variables and explore as many possibilities of aiding the turf in this area, and I think going foliar may be the best POA, going forward, because I'm at the end of my rope.
> 
> @uts
> Thank you. A lot of above also applies to answering your questions. I haven't tried a balanced fertilizer, but have used the Bioplex 5-3-1, in that area.
Click to expand...

How much N are you putting down in that area with the bioplex?


----------



## Chris LI

uts said:


> How much N are you putting down in that area with the bioplex?


I didn't put that much down last year, and regretted it. I went back through my journal to track it and figure it was probably 1 lb N worth of Bioplex. I dropped 0.5 lbs N on 6/1/19 over the entire lawn, and had a couple of general entries mentioning weak areas, so I'm guessing another 0.5 lbs N. I dropped a shaker can full recently (maybe 0.25 lbs). I was going to go a lot heavier this year, but might dial it back a little, because my P is good. I've only used it this year in weak/struggling areas, so far.


----------



## Chris LI

Was going to mow, but it started drizzling, so I did a soil app of Growth Products 0-0-25 @15 oz dosage, which translates to 1/3 lbs K/M on 3 out of the 4 soil test zones. The backyard-east has more troubles, so I went heavier @23 oz dosage, which translates to 1/2 lbs K/M.

I spent a few minutes hogging out the holes in my fert shaker and dropped some Bioplex on the 4'x4' mini Bewitched reno area under the trees and around the fire pit. Both are struggling after getting whacked by Rust last summer. Mother Nature is watering everything in now.


----------



## uts

Chris LI said:


> uts said:
> 
> 
> 
> How much N are you putting down in that area with the bioplex?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't put that much down last year, and regretted it. I went back through my journal to track it and figure it was probably 1 lb N worth of Bioplex. I dropped 0.5 lbs N on 6/1/19 over the entire lawn, and had a couple of general entries mentioning weak areas, so I'm guessing another 0.5 lbs N. I dropped a shaker can full recently (maybe 0.25 lbs). I was going to go a lot heavier this year, but might dial it back a little, because my P is good. I've only used it this year in weak/struggling areas, so far.
Click to expand...

I think you would benefit from a much higher N rate here by using just AMS or urea in those areas. See how 0.5lbs/3-4 weeks in spring and again in the fall blitz does for you?


----------



## Chris LI

uts said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uts said:
> 
> 
> 
> How much N are you putting down in that area with the bioplex?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't put that much down last year, and regretted it. I went back through my journal to track it and figure it was probably 1 lb N worth of Bioplex. I dropped 0.5 lbs N on 6/1/19 over the entire lawn, and had a couple of general entries mentioning weak areas, so I'm guessing another 0.5 lbs N. I dropped a shaker can full recently (maybe 0.25 lbs). I was going to go a lot heavier this year, but might dial it back a little, because my P is good. I've only used it this year in weak/struggling areas, so far.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you would benefit from a much higher N rate here by using just AMS or urea in those areas. See how 0.5lbs/3-4 weeks in spring and again in the fall blitz does for you?
Click to expand...

Thanks. I was going to open my bag of AMS today and spray that area and another in the backyard, but it was already raining. I think I will try to get a spray down, too. I haven't seen the prill size yet. If it's large, would spreading it be an issue? I'm leaning towards spraying it, but haven't decided yet.


----------



## uts

I've spread the standard agricultural AMS easily with a Scott's spreader. Urea had a bigger prill size and more difficult to spread. Otherwise a hand spreader always makes a good option.


----------



## Chris LI

uts said:


> I've spread the standard agricultural AMS easily with a Scott's spreader. Urea had a bigger prill size and more difficult to spread. Otherwise a hand spreader always makes a good option.


Thanks! Time to cut the bag open to check the prill size.


----------



## g-man

@Chris LI I moved some of the conv to your lawn journal.


----------



## Chris LI

@g-man 
Thanks. I'll have it for easy reference and not clog up the Blitz thread.


----------



## Chris LI

Chris LI said:


> uts said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've spread the standard agricultural AMS easily with a Scott's spreader. Urea had a bigger prill size and more difficult to spread. Otherwise a hand spreader always makes a good option.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! Time to cut the bag open to check the prill size.
Click to expand...

@uts 
I had to go into the garage for something and couldn't resist cutting open the bag to check (after I pulled the bags of alfalfa pellets and tri-rye off the top-Lol). The size is pretty small, so I should be able to use it either way. I don't think it's labeled as spray grade, so I'll have to see how it dissolves. I use my hand spreader for urea, so AMS will be no problem. Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday, I had a little time for a morning mow, so I cut the front with only a single pass with the Folbate on the 4th day (really 3.5 due to the morning mow). Here's rare morning shots afterwards.


----------



## ruxie88

Chris LI said:


> Yesterday, I had a little time for a morning mow, so I cut the front with only a single pass with the Folbate on the 4th day (really 3.5 due to the morning mow). Here's rare morning shots afterwards.


Looking good! What HOC are you at? Are you going to try to maintain it there?


----------



## Chris LI

ruxie88 said:


> Looking good! What HOC are you at? Are you going to try to maintain it there?


Thanks! I started and am still at 1.5", which is the max HOC for the manual reel mower. It's super thick and darker than I expected. I will try to keep it there as long as I can. I'll gradually raise as necessary. I'm only able to cut every 4-5 days, and really need to cut at least twice per week, with no PGR.


----------



## ruxie88

Chris LI said:


> ruxie88 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking good! What HOC are you at? Are you going to try to maintain it there?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I started and am still at 1.5", which is the max HOC for the manual reel mower. It's super thick and darker than I expected. I will try to keep it there as long as I can. I'll gradually raise as necessary. I'm only able to cut every 4-5 days, and really need to cut at least twice per week, with no PGR.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Which manual reel do you have? Do you recommend?


----------



## Chris LI

@ruxie88 
I have a vintage Folbate from probably the late 50's that I inherited from my grandfather. I have a couple photos of it a few pages back in my journal.

I don't have any first hand experiences with newer ones, but I've heard good things about the Fiskars. I looked at a few online, besides the typical big box store offerings. Pro Mow was one of them. A couple of YouTubers that might interest you are Striperman and The Lawn Whisperer, if you like striping. The LW recently bought one, whose handle was wide enough to easily bolt up to the frame of the Toro linestriping system.


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## bernstem

I have a Fiskars, but don't have any experience with other manual reels to compare it to. It is better at not scalping at sub 1.5 inches than my Honda. It is pretty easy to push through turf, but if it gets too thick becomes a chore, so you do need to keep on top of the lawn and not let it get overgrown. It is supposed to be much better and easier to push than the older style reels. I never really used it for cutting much over 2 inches as I just switched to my Honda at that point. I do like that it leaves no stripes and minimal wheel marks for a very uniform looking turf. Sometimes you just don't want stripes.


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## ruxie88

Chris LI said:


> @ruxie88
> I have a vintage Folbate from probably the late 50's that I inherited from my grandfather. I have a couple photos of it a few pages back in my journal.
> 
> I don't have any first hand experiences with newer ones, but I've heard good things about the Fiskars. I looked at a few online, besides the typical big box store offerings. Pro Mow was one of them. A couple of YouTubers that might interest you are Striperman and The Lawn Whisperer, if you like striping. The LW recently bought one, whose handle was wide enough to easily bolt up to the frame of the Toro linestriping system.


 :thumbup:


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## ruxie88

bernstem said:


> I have a Fiskars, but don't have any experience with other manual reels to compare it to. It is better at not scalping at sub 1.5 inches than my Honda. It is pretty easy to push through turf, but if it gets too thick becomes a chore, so you do need to keep on top of the lawn and not let it get overgrown. It is supposed to be much better and easier to push than the older style reels. I never really used it for cutting much over 2 inches as I just switched to my Honda at that point. I do like that it leaves no stripes and minimal wheel marks for a very uniform looking turf. Sometimes you just don't want stripes.


 :thumbup:


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I felt the need to raise HOC to 2" and bag. Last mow was ~5.5 days ago and I needed to bag up cherry blossoms, trimmings and all sorts of junk blown into the yard with several days of high winds. I hadn't trimmed or edged in a few weeks, so it was overgrown and desperately needed. The lawn in the front is really thick and it was time to break out the striping attachment. Color darkened some more and evened out some. One interesting detail that I noticed is a section of zoysia on my hellstrip has not come out of dormancy yet. I know the reason, but it's pretty cool to see the cause/effect. My wife's Uncle parked his SUV in front of our house while he took a brief trip to FL, when he flew out of a local airport. This occurred when the whole Covid-19 emergency broke, and he's stuck in FL, for almost two months. The area shaded by the SUV is noticeably behind. I should take photos for reference, so that's on my list. Here's some others after yesterday's mow. A few are shots taken from similar locations, but with different lighting conditions, which affect the exposure. I thought it was cool to show the differences. Bottom one is my mini-domination line on my hellstrip. :lol:


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## Butter

Looks good!


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## Chris LI

Butter said:


> Looks good!


Thanks...getting there!


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## SNOWBOB11

Color looks great.


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## Chris LI

@SNOWBOB11 
Thank you! I think the corrections to pH and K are beginning to help.


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## Chris LI

I had the opportunity to mow again today, after two days, so I broke out the reel mower and brought it back down to 1.5".

I am very torn at this point between HOCs. I absolutely love the density at 1.5"! It's like a dark carpet. However, at 2" it's noticeably darker, as we all know that higher HOC = darker color. I've been trying to find the happy medium (as I'm a best bang for the buck, guy). Of course, the quality of cut with a reel mower is better, so I may be comparing apples and oranges. It really makes me want to shoot the lock off my wallet and buy a Swardman to try it out at 1.75" and 2". I only ramble on with this because I'm a color junkie and want to put this out there if there are others debating on HOC. Also, I want a reference point if I purchase one in the future.

Anyway, I hadn't been up to my friend's house to do some work on his lawn this spring, so I packed up a few things and headed up to his place. I was greeted with an overgrown lawn, because his lackluster landscaper mowed only once this season. Grass was 6"-10" tall, with the dog providing the 10" donuts. I really need to remember to take my mower up next time. Since a few of the donuts were snow shoe sized, I finally got to try out a "new" tool I purchased two years ago; my Pro Plugger. I love this thing! I pulled 31 plugs from the large dead, dog pee areas, just off the deck (but there are more to go ), and replaced them with good plugs from some of the healthy donuts. Of course, I forgot to take photos. I spot hit some bad areas with tri-rye and lightly spread the rest across the entire lawn. I weighed out some AS and applied 0.21 lbs N/M, before the rain tonight.

When I got home, I dropped AS at the same rate on those slow areas/renos in the backyard, and added some Bioplex in the worst areas, with my shaker jar.


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## Matix99def

The 2 inch looks good. Do you spray any iron supplements or do you use any current products that have iron?


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## Chris LI

Matix99def said:


> The 2 inch looks good. Do you spray any iron supplements or do you use any current products that have iron?


I have not used any products with iron on the front yard this season (oops, fibbed and caught myself below). The fall N blitz I've been doing for a few years helps with dark spring color. I try to hold off on synthetic N early in the season, but it seems that I usually need a little to help it out of dormancy. I attribute this to the cold ocean, which is only a few miles away (the Great South Bay is about 1.5 miles away from my house).

This year, the color is darker than usual. This is probably due to a few things:

1. I started making corrections to deficiencies discovered in my soil test, as noted below.

1a. Applied Simple Lawn Solutions 0-0-25 for K deficiency.

1b. Applied Cal-Flo liquid lime to correct low pH.

1c. Applied Growth Products 0-0-25 for K deficiency and with pH of 12, it probably helped pH, a little.

2. Applied Simple Lawn Solutions 15-0-15 as a foliar spray. This was mainly to get K down before the GP 0-0-25 was back in stock, but I needed a little early season bump of N, too. The urea and humic/fulvic early in the season probably helped, too.

3. I put down another humic acid product early in the season, too. Humic DG.

4. Extra cool spring seemed to allow color improvement over topgrowth.

5. I did also apply corn gluten, but it's been so cold, I don't think it really kicked yet.

However, I have used products with iron last year. FeATURE 6-0-0 and Bioplex 5-3-1. I plan to spray some iron this year, and have spot hit areas with Bioplex this spring (including a small trouble spot in the front next to the driveway, I forgot to mention). I think the pH and K corrections helped release P that was locked up in my soil. My soil test indicated high P levels. For "winging it" for many years without a soil test, I highly recommend obtaining one, after seeing these results.

That's probably way more than you were looking for, but I wanted to give you the complete picture.


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## Chris LI

So, it's been awhile since I updated my journal, for a good reason. I haven't done anything! Work, life and Covid-19 have engulfed me.

Anyway, I took care of a friend on Thursday, and, dropped some Bioplex and AS. I also blanket sprayed some 61.6% Triclopyr to wipe out clover and various weeds.

After working my tail off for several days, I got home today after work and mowed for the first time in 11 days, which means that I missed 2 mows. In keeping with the Memorial Day holiday, I laid down some stripes and a field. I didn't have the time or energy to throw the striping kit on, so the stripes are faint, but they are there. I spot sprayed the remainder of the Triclopyr/AS mix from the other day on clover and various broadleaf weeds. I am heavily involved with an extremely large event that is held this weekend each year to commemorate the holiday, but was cancelled this year due to Covid-19. I have family that has served in the service in various branches of the military, and lost my grandfather in WWII, so I take a moment each year to reflect on this day. I pass on my thanks and gratitude for ALL that serve our country in the armed services. I also thank ALL that work in all of the emergency services. In my capacity, I work with great people who have badges, halligans, and stethoscopes, and thank them too. My weed farm photos are anticlimactic after this, but here's some before/after photos of today.


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## Chris LI

I forgot to mention that yesterday's mow was a bag mow at 2". I did a test pass at 2.5", in case it was too overgrown to cut at 2". It took off some and might be a good summer HOC, but 2" was better, since I didn't violate the 1/3 rule that bad. It was even better for the slower backyard. I hope to get back to 1.5", if possible. That depends on time constraints/weather.

Today, I pulled a few hundred clover flowers and stolon leaders to reduce the seed bank. My missed opportunities with Triclopyr allowed it to spread like wildfire. I saw some curling of the stems today, so I hope it's already starting to injure it from yesterday's app. It's less than 24 hrs, so I hope that I'm not overly optimistic. There were a few more handfuls, before I started using the bucket.


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## Chris LI

Last night, I took a big gamble, and we'll see if it pays off. I decided to go for it with bringing HOC back down to 1.5"with the manual reel mower. We're still in the spring flush, so it was overgrown from the last mow at 2" two days ago. I definitely violated the 1/3 rule in almost every area of the yard. I double cut+ in the front and double cut many of the areas in the back. I was out of gas by the end, as the fescue really fought the mower (2.5 mile workout in exactly 60 minutes, according to my Samsung app- double that, because I was out there for 2+ hours in actuality). I finished in the dark, so no photos of the backyard. I wanted to spray a little N for recovery, but it was dark and I decided to rehydrate with an adult beverage instead. 

I can see more injury to the clover, and cut off a lot of the leaves with the lower HOC, so I hope the poison already translocated to the roots. We'll see. I didn't expect to see as much injury so soon. I think the AS had a lot to do with it (surfactant probably helped some, too).

Color took a hit, so this might be the last mow at 1.5" for the spring, but I love the density. Time will only tell.


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## SNOWBOB11

Looking nice and dense. Your gardens always look good.


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## Chris LI

@SNOWBOB11 Thank you! I got a little behind with the lawn and garden lately with OT at work, so I'm playing some catch up. I'm really debating HOC going into the summer. I love the reel mower cut quality and density at 1.5", but wish it was adjustable up to 2". I don't think I can maintain mowing frequency at 1.5", so I will probably need to switch over to the rotary to keep it at 2". Any suggestions are much appreciated. A Swardman is only a pipe dream at this point.


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## Stuofsci02

Looks great. It can be hard at times to keep up especially when life has other ideas. It usually happens during the spring or fall flush to punish you even more.


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## Chris LI

Swept up a 35 gallon pail full of oak seed strings along the curb. Between kbg, zoysia, oak and maple seeds, things are a little messy right now. Work and mowing beat me up yesterday, so I made this errand and chore day, so I can work on the yard tomorrow.

Yesterday, I had some disappointing news from Do My Own that the Chapin 2 gallon sprayer (26021XP) was backordered from the mfg (email was two days ago). Anyway, I got some good news in an email from this afternoon that it should ship tomorrow. My plans of building a DFW wand over the winter/early spring changed for a few reasons, so I decided to pick this one up and a CF valve. Since I should be able to swap out tee jets, this should be a cost effective alternative.


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## Chris LI

I cancelled my order for the 2 gallon sprayer, since it hadn't shipped yet and I ordered the 3 gallon version (26031XP) from Amazon, since it was cheaper. I reordered the CF valve from Do My Own along with the fan tip nozzle and some cool safety shades.

I finally got my tomatoes and hot peppers planted and sprayed SLS 15-0-15 with some Southern Ag cheated iron. I intended to spray at the 4 oz and 2 oz rate, respectively, but my walking speed/overlap was off and it wound up being about half that rate. Spraying into the dark didn't help, either. Rain is predicted for tonight, so we'll see what happens.


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> I cancelled my ordered for the 2 gallon sprayer, since it hadn't shipped yet and I ordered the 3 gallon version (26031XP) from Amazon, since it was cheaper.


That's what I have, with the Lesco label on it. Been using it since like 2012. It's awkward if you fill it to 3 gallons (mixing and carrying while spraying) but that is never necessary since I find 1-1.5 gallons usually covers 1,000 square feet for me. I've also had the 4 gallon 20V battery sprayer for almost 2 years, which I fill to 2-3 gallons usually.

I haven't tricked out my 3-gallon with T-jet nozzles and CF valves yet, but I'll get around to it at some point. I also need to get a drill paint mixer so I don't have to shake the sprayers all the time. I use this sprayer for all solutions that are powders or other solids, which can clog and damage the battery sprayer. I also use the 3 gallon handheld when I'm spraying under 3,000 square feet or so.

The original under-cover O-ring seal is still good, but I'm looking for a replacement. I've had to take it all apart and clean and regrease it with vaseline a few times, as it starts to leak air when it gets dirty.

Lawn looks good, and great effort you've put in this past week.


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## Chris LI

@Green 
Thanks! I decided on this one for the reasons you mentioned about the CF valve and tee jets. I was planning on building the DFW wand over the winter/early spring, but that went out the window with the Covid-19 emergency. Since my 2.5 gallon sprayer is a little long in the tooth (15 years+), I didn't want to chance fate. I did some research on TLF and someone suggested that Chapin model for the CF mod and fan tip. I believe it will fit tee jets, too, but I forget if it needs an adapter, or if it will bolt right up. I'm looking to get some more precision with spraying, since I'm beginning to use more liquids than granulars. Since the kids are older and aren't playing in the lawn nearly as much as they used to, I transitioned from all organic to a hybrid regimen. I might spray Prodiamine in the fall, so I want to be more accurate. I picked up the Chapin fan tip to start getting used to that style.


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## Green

I was told no adapters are needed.

I'm actually still trying to find another of the original wand that came with it. It's 20-24 in I think, and stainless steel color. They seem to come with brass these days instead, and I can't find the original online. I bought one in my hardware store that looked like it, but it was too short and soaked my shoes. Any ideas?


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> Today, I pulled a few hundred clover flowers and stolon leaders to reduce the seed bank.


How does it work with clover? At what point do seeds form? I have it in the low input area, and am mostly letting it grow for the benefits, but it can get too thick sometimes and cause the grass under it to yellow from lack of sun. I hope the seeds aren't going everywhere when I mow. I haven't seen flowers yet in my yard this year, but have in others. Are the seeds in the flowers, or is it like most plants where it flowers first and then seeds?


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## Chris LI

@Green 
Most plants that flower, usually seed from the flower post-bloom. I assume the same is with clover, but haven't actually looked it up, so your question is quite relevant. For the stolon leaders, I rip 'em out just to slow the clover invasion down. It can be quite gratifying.


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## Chris LI

Stuofsci02 said:


> Looks great. It can be hard at times to keep up especially when life has other ideas. It usually happens during the spring or fall flush to punish you even more.


Sorry for the late reply, as I just saw this. You hit the nail on the head! Unfortunately, my line of work peaks when my turf hobby needs the most time, so I'm constantly reprioritizing. I've learned that I have to let certain things go, and I try to plan for the worst case scenario, knowing that time is at a premium. Thanks for the support.


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## Chris LI

I'm pushing the envelope a bit at this point. Temps have generally been on the cool side for the last couple of weeks (50s-60s). However, it's been very dry and when we hit our first 80* day of the season on Saturday (85*), and I noticed some wilt and LDS in the front yard when I got home from work yesterday. I was not up to hand watering and my end caps for my sprinkler spikes were not readily accessible, so I rested up for today.

Fast forward...
Even though it was dry, I went for it and bag mowed at 1.5". A test pass at 2" was lush and comfortable, but I opted to go lower for the density and to pick up a ton of debris (4-2.5 bushel baggers full of oak seed strings, red maple seed pods, chunks of vines, etc., over 4,500-5,000 sq ft. Trim, edge, blow before the mow helped clean up all the junk from this past week's high winds.

I squeezed in all of the above and a thorough watering of the front for recovery. I could smell some of the fish emulsion fron the SLS 15-0-15 I applied last week. I put down a ton of water with my favorite fire hose nozzle I bought from Lowe's a couple of years ago (pistol grip Yardsmith brand). Hopefully, this will aid in recovery.


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## Chris LI

More watering after work today. The lawn showed some recovery, and the sprinkle with mid 70's helped a little too (76*).


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## Matix99def

How much water do you aim for per week? Are you on a routine or water as it needs?


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## Chris LI

@Matix99def 
I monitor natural rainfall and supplement as needed. I typically aim for the standard of 1" per week for spring and fall, and aim higher in the summer (maybe 1.5" or so), to keep it from heat/drought stress if possible. My front yard tends to get cooked with the southern exposure and all the concrete/asphalt across the street from the shopping center (and prevailing wind from that direction).

Spring tends to supply enough natural rain, but we haven't had much of anything for a couple of weeks. It's mostly been cool (50s-60's), but temps popped up on Saturday to the mid 80's. I try to not water and let the grass stress a little in the spring to train the roots to dive deeper in search of water. Once I see it begin to stress, I water lightly initially, so the soil is dampened enough, but not for runoff. Then I come back to that area a little while later (half hour or so) and pound it with water for a deep watering, so it gets down to the deeper roots that I was encouraging.

I'm not as sophisticated as some of the folks on TLF with an ET (evapotranspiration) calculator or spreadsheet. I find it interesting, but just don't have the time and haven't looked into what I need to create/use one.


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## Matix99def

Ya the ET system would be cool. We had a dry spring as well but I kept getting tricked by rain in the forecast than it would be pushed back a day, than another day and after I knew it, 2 weeks went by with next to no water hah. Do you ever pull occasional cores to check for root length?


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## Chris LI

Matix99def said:


> Do you ever pull occasional cores to check for root length?


No, I haven't. I just bought my soil sampler this spring, but that's a great idea! I will add that to the list of uses. Along with checking for root depth, I will check for moisture depth, to see if I'm watering deeply enough. We just had the second downpour of the day about 45 minutes ago, so tomorrow will be a good time to check. It hasn't rained like this in weeks, so it will be interesting.

I also thought about using the soil sample probe for my "drill and fill" technique for deep coring under my maples that have dense surface roots. I used a masonry bit last year and was thinking of following it up with the soil probe to get a good core for filling with masonry sand.


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## Chris LI

Gave a haircut to 13 of my evergreens; 5 1/2 wheelbarrowfuls of clippings. I love my Echo PAS straight hedge clipper attachment. Detail work was done with a Corona manual hedge clipper.

3 days since the last mow, so I needed to mow. The heavy watering and 0.89" of rain, in two spells of rain helped with recovery. The bagging blade was dull with a capital "D", so I pulled the least dull blade (older Gator) out of my stash and put a decent edge on it, balanced and threw it on my trusty Snapper Hi Vac, and went to town at 1.5" to make sure I bagged up stray leaves and especially, the leftover evergreen clippings. Color took a hit again, but density is great. I feel like a low HOC junkie now, more than a color junkie, because I keep mowing at 1.5", instead of 2". I am quite torn between the two HOCs. The lawn is hungry and I need to get some Bioplex down. The spoonfed areas with Bioplex look better than the rest of the lawn. Stress X 4-0-25 is on way.


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## Babameca

I will have to show your garden to my wife. She is the keeper of that part and ...she does not keep up with me. I patiently wait...for 5 years now :lol:. Yard looks so cozy!


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## Chris LI

@Babameca 
Thank you! That is the highest compliment. I cannot take all the credit. My mother-in-law lives with us and designed it. I care for it as I do with the lawn. She is more of the planner, and I apply the science/horticultural knowledge (and a butt load of labor, lol). My father was more of a gardener than lawn guy, so I was well prepared. The key is to plan the garden with several perennials to bloom at different periods during the season and fill in with annuals that tend to have season long blooms. Also, it may sound obvious, but check the mature growing heights of each planting, as you want the shorter ones in the front and taller ones in the back. If you have any questions on care or ID, I am happy to oblige.


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## PNW_TurfNoob

Lawn and landscape are looking great!

I'm trying to figure out what kind of border to have around my lawn (right now it's just an air edge) and I noticed you have brick edging. Do you like it? Would you rather have that or a mow strip if you were starting from scratch?

Also what did that poor Volvo do to get thrown in a cage??


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## Chris LI

@PNW_TurfNoob 
Thank you! For most of the lawn, I have a cut-in, or air edge as you call it, for most of my borders. I decided on brick edging at a few locations for a few reasons. The section in front of the steps, I put the scalloped edging about 15 years ago because it centered nicely, and I could square it up along the walkway. I used it on both sides of the steps to match. It also squared up along the driveway nicely, but over time it got out of alignment left of the steps, under the bay window. I really need to fix it this year. I like the combination of the two. The brick edging dresses up the steps and keeps that area square, and also helps keep the mulch on the bed. I like the cut-in edge, too because it allows a little free form curvature to the main bed to contour the lawn area.

That poor Volvo needs to find someone who wants to give love to it. It was my wife's daily driver, and then I took it over when she got a new car for our first child many years ago. We just can't let it go to the boneyard, but haven't put it up for sale for one of the folks that loves them. We really need to do it this year.


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## jabopy

@Chris Li that garden is defo looking fantastic, and the lawn&#128076; The old snapper is working overtime.


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## Chris LI

@jabopy 
Thank you! Little by little it's getting there. More should be in bloom soon. I put that Snapper through hell and back, and she still keeps going. :twisted: It's one of the best investments that I have made. Simple, but effective design, options for several different blades (I have 4 different types), a smooth transmission, I can side discharge, etc.


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## Chris LI

I just had a small bit of news, so I will start the entry with it. My wife's uncle was finally able to drive up from FL,. after being stuck there since March, during Covid-19. Since they flew out of a local airport, they came to pick up their car (which we hosted, so they could save parking fees), which I think was only supposed to be here for a long weekend. Covid-19 really affected a lot of people in so many ways. 
They brought jumper cables and his SUV fired up pretty quickly. I supplied a little lithium white grease for a sticky hood latch, and they were on their way! I can get some photos from across the street, now. 

Right before the rain started, I dropped 0.5-0.6 lbs N of Bioplex. I contemplated using my new 3 gallon Chapin sprayer, since my CF valve arrived in the mail today, but I knew the rain would wash off the leaf blades, before a minimum of 4 hours. Little did I know that it would start raining before I completed a quarter of app. Anyway, it's down and being watered in now.


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## Chris LI

So, I'm going down the rabbit hole. I'm a best for the buck guy, and with my collection of liquid products, I was looking for more kelp based products. SLS is out of their sea kelp/humic/fulvic product, so I did some searching and came back around to the NeXT products. Even though I didn't want to purchase $118 worth of products, I figured that I could make the purchase worthwhile because I'm helping a friend and my new Chapin Sprayer with CF valve should make the investment go a little farther. I've been using my Blue Mule sprayer to pound water and product (kelp, molasses, K4L Extreme blend, etc.). With a tank sprayer, I'm hoping to do more foliar apps, with no clogs, so I think this will payoff in the long run. I purchased "the compaction cure" bundle which is the 2.5 gallon each of RGS and Air-8. I also have some compacted areas and am K deficient, so that was my consideration for the purchase. I figure this should last a couple of seasons, so we'll find out. I do realize that these are more of soil apps, but the precision of the pump sprayer and landing the spray a little softer, should allow for a better application and hopefully also result in a little foliar uptake, before it's watered in. Any suggestions or opinions on the matter are appreciated.


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## Chris LI

Stress X 4-0-25 arrived today. I took it out of the shipping box when I got home from work tonight. It has that familiar "natural" odor like my Espoma 15-0-5, with the pasteurized poultry manure/litter. It's the other "smell of success". With the 45 lb bag, I should get 3 drops from this bag at the label rate. Since I need the K, I might make two drops by the 4th of July and save one for around Labor Day. I'll wait at least a week, since I just dropped some Bioplex. Is that too much before summer? Opinions?


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> Stress X 4-0-25 arrived today. I took it out of the shipping box when I got home from work tonight. It has that familiar "natural" odor like my Espoma 15-0-5, with the pasteurized poultry manure/litter. It's the other "smell of success". With the 45 lb bag, I should get 3 drops from this bag at the label rate. Since I need the K, I might make two drops by the 4th of July and save one for around Labor Day. I'll wait at least a week, since I just dropped some Bioplex. Is that too much before summer? Opinions?


I'm actually currently experimenting with *decreasing* my Spring applied N (which is mostly WIN/organic) from 1.0 lb in previous years to 0.75 lb N this year, and then upping my August applied N from 0-0.25 lb to 0.50 lb...to make things more Fall-heavy.

One of my neighbors, who has not done lawn care in a decade (recently moved back into a house with a yard) has a lawn service that has come 3x so far this Spring. Assuming they dropped 0.50 lb N each time (and it wasn't from organics), that could be 1.50 lbs applied so far, with more likely yet to come in June. Suffice it to say, he is mowing like crazy. He just mowed a couple of days ago at 2.5, and it's easily over 3 in today.

In contrast, I've only put down 0.375 so far this year, with another 0.375 planned over the coming couple of weeks. But my soil has an N-bank built up at this point from previous months/years of organics and methylene urea use.

By the way, speaking of the 15-0-5, remember we were trying last year to figure out some things about it?


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## Chris LI

@Green
I've also been trying to go a little lighter on spring N the last 2-3 years. Last year, I went a little too light in late spring/early summer, so I'm adding a little more back in this year.

Funny you mention the 15-0-5 analysis/granule count. I haven't forgotten, but there never seems to be enough time to do some of the little experiments we all want to get to doing. I was waiting for you to bring it up at some point. Lol


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## Chris LI

Sunday evening after work, I double cut, reel mowed at 1.5". The perpendicular pass still took a lot off. After only 3 days growth, it was still overgrown. I took off 1/2 the blade in many places, which is not good. I can barely keep a mowing frequency of 2x per week, so 3x is out of the question. Color took another hit, so 1.5" may be on its way out. We'll see how the recent rain and Bioplex reacts. The Bioplex has only 25% fast release, and I dropped only 0.5-0.6 lbs. N, so that should only be 0.125-0.15 lbs. fast release (Bioplex is 5-3-1).

I touched up a couple of spots I missed last night and noticed that the turf recovered to an acceptable level. I pounded it with some water, since it was cool and dry out (less conducive to fungus). We'll see what happens.

Garden wise, white Azalea and Creeping Phlox are post bloom. In bloom are Peonies, dark purple Iris, small red rose (not sure of variety) and a few others. Lilies should be opening soon and my Dad's Prickly Pear cactus looks healthy and developing buds. I'm a little worried about the amount of browning on the phlox. I hope it wasn't hit with drift from the Triclopyr spray. I didn't go too close to the edge, but I think a cardboard shield is in the cards for next time (sorry for the bad pun). Last shot is of my favorite Yardsmith fire hose nozzle in action, which I picked up at Lowes a couple of years ago. With a full flow handle, pistol grip and valve lever, it's very versatile and moves a lot of water, especially with the 3/4" diameter hose. They still had them at my local store as of yesterday, so I texted my buddy from work with the info. I believe it is $16.98.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> @Green
> I've also been trying to go a little lighter on spring N the last 2-3 years. Last year, I went a little too light in late spring/early summer, so I'm adding a little more back in this year.
> 
> Funny you mention the 15-0-5 analysis/granule count. I haven't forgotten, but there never seems to be enough time to do some of the little experiments we all want to get to doing. I was waiting for you to bring it up at some point. Lol


And boom...I just saw some red thread today. I need to get the rest of my Spring N down over the coming weeks. Doesn't help that my spreader broke a couple of weeks ago. Maybe I can get the parts and fix it in the next couple of days. It's just a cotter pin of a certain size. Just need to get one.

Lol, consider yourself reminded.


----------



## Chris LI

I came to the disappointing conclusion that I need to put the Folbate away for awhile. I can't maintain 1.5" HOC anymore and need to go to 2". The turf is too stressed, needs to be cut after 3 days, and has not recovered. I elected not to cut tonight, in order to allow more recovery, so I can cut at 2" tomorrow, weather permitting. Without having elite kbg cultivars, growth is too varied with some grasses still barely above 1.5", while others are 2.5"+. I really need to do a reno to cut at this HOC. RGS and Air-8 arrived today, so I hope to spray tomorrow after the mow and have Mother Nature help water it in.

Rewinding a little...
Yesterday, I finally caught up some on planting annuals. I added Celosia, Portulaca, and Verbena to my pots for the front steps and some Celosia to my front bed under the window.

It was a few weeks since I worked on my friend's lawn. I headed up and moved 30 more plugs for the dog spots, dropped Bioplex at ~0.3-0.4 lbs N (ran out, but would've dropped 0.5+), and sprayed SLS Root Hume/AS tank mix. Root Hume was label rate and AS was light (1 oz/gal/K). Their lawn is much better and Triclopyr ester took out almost all weeds, save a few buckhorn plantain. I didn't have time to pull the weeding tool out of my truck...maybe next time.

I got home and gave some TLC to tomatoes and peppers. I sprayed Essential 1-0-1 as a foliar with trigger sprayer (Nova Green version that's OMRI, that is meant for the Other kind of grass). The regular is not labeled for crop use, so I didn't use it last year on my food crops. I've been staying organic for my vegetable garden, so this is a welcome addition to my kelp, molasses and alfalfa regimen. At planting, I mixed on Espoma Bio Tone Starter and Sustane 2-6-3 Concentrated Compost. Then I pounded the front and side/backyard section with water and hit the veggies with a little Neem oil after the Essential dried.

Here's some photos of why I need to raise HOC. The last photo is of the front where the dark green strip is a little lower, so HOC is higher and color/health is much better.


----------



## weirj55

Always fascinating to read your upkeep plan and to have you chip in ideas for my plot. Maybe you could sell that jailed Volvo and put the proceeds to a reel mower!!!


----------



## Chris LI

weirj55 said:


> Always fascinating to read your upkeep plan and to have you chip in ideas for my plot. Maybe you could sell that jailed Volvo and put the proceeds to a reel mower!!!


Hmmmmmm. I've been trying to come up with an idea to sell to the boss, to buy a Swardman. It's been only a pipe dream, but now it gets me thinking that it might be feasible in a long term plan.  Thanks!


----------



## Chris LI

Hand filed my Ninja blade, but decided to stick with the old Gator blade already on the mower, due to all the leaves, twigs and branches blowing all over the lawn. I trimmed, edged and mulch mowed @ 2". The lawn is much happier at the new HOC. I tried my new little trick of raising one side of the deck a notch, so I can run it inside the bed edge and not scalp it. I'm trying to reduce any additional stress on those areas. It worked pretty well.

I did my usual shaker jar of Bioplex on weak areas. I didn't need it on the small square 4'x4' old playground area with the Bewitched mini reno a couple of years ago. Now that area looks the best compared to everything around it. :mrgreen:

I didn't waste any time getting my new N-Ext products down with the first use of my new Chapin sprayer (tested it with water the other day). I have to say that I like them both. The Chapin makes me work a bit, with the CF valve, but it works well. I applied RGS and Air-8 at their max rates (6 oz/K and 9 oz/K, respectively). I need to increase my walking speed a little, as I came up a little short on coverage (ran out, so I skipped the triv laden area in the back). I was a little surprised to see the RGS label no longer has Fulvic acid on it (Humic only), but I really like the smooth consistency of both products, with no visible particles, like the SLS Root Hume product. No clogs or particles left in the tank. As I was rinsing out the sprayer, it started drizzling and Mother Nature stepped it up to a steady pour with a T-storm and delivered 0.30" of rain. I snapped a few photos right after the mow, before the wind blew too much junk back onto the lawn.


----------



## Green

How did the CF valve increase the amount of work you had to perform?


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> How did the CF valve increase the amount of work you had to perform?


You have to pump a lot more to build up enough pressure to overcome the CF valve, and pump more often, because the valve will seat when pressure drops below the threshold (as it's designed to do, as I understand). It's worth it to give a more consistent application.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did the CF valve increase the amount of work you had to perform?
> 
> 
> 
> You have to pump a lot more to build up enough pressure to overcome the CF valve, and pump more often, because the valve will seat when pressure drops below the threshold (as it's designed to do, as I understand). It's worth it to give a more consistent application.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I would have thought the opposite (that a pump lasts longer with the CF valve than without it). What are the specs of the one you're using? And does it attach to the wand?


----------



## Chris LI

@Green
It's a Chapin 21 psi, P/N 6-8501. I purchased it from Do My Own. It's also available on Amazon. Yes, it is placed at the end of the wand, and the nozzle fits on the end. I'm using the flat fan nozzle.


----------



## synergy0852

Chris LI said:


> I was a little surprised to see the RGS label no longer has Fulvic acid on it (Humic only), but I really like the smooth consistency of both products, with no visible particles, like the SLS Root Hume product.


I may be wrong, but I think I read that GCF removed it from the label to allow sale in certain states such as CA, but Fulvic is still in the product.


----------



## Chris LI

synergy0852 said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was a little surprised to see the RGS label no longer has Fulvic acid on it (Humic only), but I really like the smooth consistency of both products, with no visible particles, like the SLS Root Hume product.
> 
> 
> 
> I may be wrong, but I think I read that GCF removed it from the label to allow sale in certain states such as CA, but Fulvic is still in the product.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I remember that one is derived from the other, from what I read, but can't remember which comes from which (chicken or egg, Lol). I'll have to do some homework.


----------



## g-man

Green said:


> Interesting. I would have thought the opposite (that a pump lasts longer with the CF valve than without it). What are the specs of the one you're using? And does it attach to the wand?


The cf valve will remain close and prevent flow until the cracking pressure (21psi) pushes it open. As long as the pressure upstream (hose) is above 21psi, it will be open and allow flow. That's the main benefit as a CF valve, it will ensure you have a constant good pressure when you spray and force you to pump when the pressure drops.


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday, I mulch mowed @ 2" with the old Gator blade. No time for a trim, edge or blow. The lawn recovered well enough to throw the striping attachment on for the front. However, some of the PRG is toast in that stretch between the evergreens and the RV.

Today was maintenance day. I didn't have enough oil for a change, so I topped it off. I cleaned the air filter and plug, and am due for new ones. I swapped out the blade for the sharpened Ninja.

As others have mentioned, the turf is darker than what appears in photos. I don't bother with any color corrections, and just use the auto setting on my Galaxy S7.

Photos from yesterday:









From today...the Clematis is in bloom:


----------



## Trailz516

Looking good Chris. I know what you mean about the grass color in pictures but yours still looks plenty dark. The colors in the garden looking great as well.


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## solarcrisis

Every time i see your journal , im like this yard looks familiar.. where have i seen it.. every time i go to best buy/home depot shopping center(s), i pass this one house, im like this yard seems familiar , where have i seen it... well i just now linked them together.


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## Chris LI

@Trailz516
Thanks! Your project is definitely coming along. I've been peeking at your journal, but just haven't had a chance to comment. With so many folks posting in their journals, it's tough to keep up (but it's also very cool to see so many members engaged).

@solarcrisis
Feel free to stop by if you see me out there!


----------



## Chris LI

Today was hydration day. I finally put my end caps on my DIY irrigation system and fired it up. It's been very dry and I really needed to do so. I also wanted to apply some product and water it in.

I pre watered with the system in the sunny front and then applied some Cal-Flo (liquid lime) at a little under 16 oz/K, which is about half the rate I did earlier in the season. With temperatures rising, I didn't want to put too much down at a time, since this is fast reacting lime. I followed up with hand watering with the fire hose nozzle and some system watering.

I took a couple of photos:

Mycelium - one of many that I'm keeping my eye on (this is my mostly TTTF section by the RV)



Dad's Prickly Pear with its first bloom (don't mind the white splotches on it, the Tall Phlox, and other plants; the shot was taken before the lime was watered in)


----------



## Baretta

I've been finding Mycelium lately in my lawn as well. Is it signs of dollar spot to follow or not neccessarily? I'm pretty sure that's what I have.

Also, I have the same Chapin sprayer as you. I find I can get about 40ft before I have to pump it. How far are you getting with the cf valve?


----------



## Chris LI

Baretta said:


> I've been finding Mycelium lately in my lawn as well. Is it signs of dollar spot to follow or not neccessarily? I'm pretty sure that's what I have.
> 
> Also, I have the same Chapin sprayer as you. I find I can get about 40ft before I have to pump it. How far are you getting with the cf valve?


Mycelium could be the beginning of a fungal outbreak. I have to go back and read up on it, to refresh my knowledge. It's been awhile, so I don't remember any specifics.

I noticed a similar situation with the Chapin. I believe that is how it's designed to work. The CF valve keeps it in a proper psi range, so you must keep pumping to keep the pressure up. It's much more of a workout than my old 2.5 gallon sprayer, but worth it. The fan tip sprays wider, more evenly, to get more product down. The CF valve helps keep the pressure more consistent, so I can train myself to walk at a proper pace, too. I find myself using two hands to pump it up as much as possible, to get longer runs before having to pump again. For the cost, 3 gallon volume, storage space and quality, I am happy with my choice to go with it over a backpack sprayer at this time. I still need to do some homework on adapting it to use tee jets. I thought I read somewhere on TLF that its possible, but have to look it up again.


----------



## Chris LI

Trimmed, edged and mowed at 2". I felt like doing some doubles today, so I did. Did another app of RGS and Air-8 at max rates ( 6 & 9 oz) on compacted areas (large panel around RV, through the back gate and the section by the Norway maple).

Sprayed a little K4L Extreme Blend on veggies, flowers out front and tri-rye seeded area which is struggling.


----------



## Babameca

Oh man. That has taken a turn! Looks awesome! I can't stop sraring at your cedars flat tops. I wished so badly to do mine in a similar manner, but the guys told with our snowfalls it will smack everything down...


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## Green

Lawn looks good, period.


----------



## Babameca

Oh, And how the heck do you water this tiny (2 feet?) strip???


----------



## Green

Babameca said:


> Oh, And how the heck do you water this tiny (2 feet?) strip???


That is a really good question. Hand watering?


----------



## Chris LI

Babameca said:


> Oh man. That has taken a turn! Looks awesome! I can't stop sraring at your cedars flat tops. I wished so badly to do mine in a similar manner, but the guys told with our snowfalls it will smack everything down...


Thanks! As much as I loved the 1.5" HOC, I had to go up to 2", which helped a lot. I've had some troubles with heavy snow in some years, too. I use a couple of things to mitigate it to some extent; one trick, one basic maintenance. The trick is to wind Xmas lights in a spiral around them and leave them until snow season is over. The maintenance tactic is the same idea as frequent mowing to promote density. I try to squeeze a spring and a fall trim in to minimize drastic cutbacks and keep the dense foliage, so the snow doesn't split the tops. In a couple of years I fell behind and didn't trim them in the Fall, I had troubles.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Babameca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, And how the heck do you water this tiny (2 feet?) strip???
> 
> 
> 
> That is a really good question. Hand watering?
Click to expand...

My DIY irrigation system gets most of it, but I do a lot of hand watering too (and love that fire hose nozzle). The zoysia/kbg mix actually blends well, and although I hate Zoysia in the north, I resist the temptation to nuke it all. I don't have a proper irrigation system, and wouldn't want to risk a failed reno at this time. That area gets cooked in late July/early August. I have to remember to take my instant read meat thermometer and cheap laser thermometer out during one of those hot spells and record soil and street temperatures.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Lawn looks good, period.


Thanks! I think the extra work and soil test (with corrections) are helping. The light dose of Bioplex seems to make a difference, too. I wish the prill size was a little smaller, so I could go even lighter while maintaining coverage. I may elect to skip the next drop, since I have the Stress X 4-0-25, to drop soon. I would like to get two drops of that down before it really gets hot, to get my K up. Each drop of Stress X would only be 0.12 lbs. N, if my math is correct. I might save the Bioplex for spot repair and a late summer drop before I start the Fall N blitz.


----------



## Chris LI

Water, water, water! Heavily. That's mostly what I've been doing. It was mid-high 80's Sunday and Monday, with no measurable rain in the last week or so.

Sunday after work, I watered deeply on both sides of the RV, backyard under the trees behind the deck/patio, and under the Norway maple.

Yesterday after work, I syringed the main front, concentrating on LDS, with following up with heavy watering.

I don't like watering into the evening, but I thought the risk was worth it. Today, I watered midday under the Norway maple, and then the main front. Luckily, we hit only 83* today.


----------



## Babameca

Feel your pain. It is on the low 90's here though for a week now. Just got close to 0,5'' , but let my irrigation fire up as well for a total 0.95''. Temps dropped by 15 degrees and will stay there for week. My lawn is all confused


----------



## Chris LI

Babameca said:


> My lawn is all confused


^+1
It went from Spring to Summer over the weekend, coinciding with the start of Summer on the calendar. What are the chances of that happening? :roll:


----------



## TheWestminsterClub

Chris great looking turf. I'm on Long Island as well. The high temps and no rain since June 11 has done a number on the turfs in my neighborhood even with irrigation. Saturday with 80% chance is looking promising.


----------



## Chris LI

@TheWestminsterClub
Thanks! Hopefully, we'll get some much needed rain. We usually don't start seeing these conditions until after the 4th. I just checked out your journal. The reno is coming along nicely!


----------



## Chris LI

My brother in law took the RV out for a camping trip, so I waited to water and mow until he left, so the turf wouldn't get too torn up...also, no trimming needed around it either. :thumbup:

I also took the opportunity to take photos from different angles, without it in the way. I need to break the tamper out and fix a couple of ruts while he is away. After mulch mowing with the Ninja blade, I hand watered heavily, using a combo of the Underhill high flow shower head nozzle, fire hose nozzle and also watered with the DIY system. I need to sharpen the good Gator blade, as there are too many Norway maple poly noses that the Ninja doesn't have enough lift to sufficiently pick up and mulch.

The Clematis is past peak, but still has some new buds. Dad's Prickly Pear is continuing to flower nicely. Definitely made some difference with the shower head nozzle. That puts a lot of water down with a 3/4" hose. The shot with it has the struggling PRG mini reno. It's green, but thinning. Time for more Bioplex.

Tomorrow, I'm thinking of making the Stress X 4-0-25 drop.


----------



## rob13psu

Chris LI said:


> My brother in law took the RV out for a camping trip, so I waited to water and mow until he left, so the turf wouldn't get too torn up...also, no trimming needed around it either. :thumbup:
> 
> I also took the opportunity to take photos from different angles, without it in the way. I need to break the tamper out and fix a couple of ruts while he is away. After mulch mowing with the Ninja blade, I hand watered heavily, using a combo of the Underhill high flow shower head nozzle, fire hose nozzle and also watered with the DIY system. I need to sharpen the good Gator blade, as there are too many Norway maple poly noses that the Ninja doesn't have enough lift to sufficiently pick up and mulch.
> 
> The Clematis is past peak, but still has some new buds. Dad's Prickly Pear is continuing to flower nicely. Definitely made some difference with the shower head nozzle. That puts a lot of water down with a 3/4" hose. The shot with it has the struggling PRG mini reno. It's green, but thinning. Time for more Bioplex.
> 
> Tomorrow, I'm thinking of making the Stress X 4-0-25 drop.


Looking good! Thinking it's about to get hot again next week.


----------



## Chris LI

@rob13psu
Thanks! I'm gearing up for it. I dropped the Stress X 4-0-25 today, and just bought a gallon of Hydretain.

I had some difficulty determining the spreader rate for my Scotts Accugreen 3000 drop spreader (for the Stress X). I eventually went from 6-10 and back down to 9. In retrospect, it probably is somewhere 8-9. The setting of 6 for the Speedy Green 2000 seems accurate, from what I saw today. I did not weigh out the product. I hate off target apps, so I use the Accugreen as much as possible. I want crisp edges and no waste of product/pollution. It has the smell of success, but not overwhelming (composted poultry manure (they call it litter-Lol). I post the spreader issues in detail, in case someone else is looking for the info. I believe I went a bit heavy on the AG 3000, as I used closer to 1/2 the bag, as opposed to 1/3, for the roughly 5K of lawn.

I got most of it watered in today.


----------



## Chris LI

Received 0.3" of much needed rain yesterday. I'm definitely seeing some recovery, but noticed one small spot of fungus in a tiny patch of TF (I don't think it's TTTF) in the front. I will be monitoring. We received a tease of a sprinkle tonight; just enough to promote fungus. I took the opportunity to water deeply again, and will try to hold off watering for a couple of days, until after the RV returns and to avoid promoting fungus. I will probably mow in a day or two. Color looks good, despite the conditions. Some small mushrooms popped up today, so there's definitely some soil activity.


----------



## abstract

Chris LI said:


> Some small mushrooms popped up today, so there's definitely some soil activity.


Hey question on the mushrooms, I've had some for the last couple of weeks, and wasn't sure if they were a good/bad/neutral indicator, I guessed had. Are they actually a positive?


----------



## DiabeticKripple

abstract said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some small mushrooms popped up today, so there's definitely some soil activity.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey question on the mushrooms, I've had some for the last couple of weeks, and wasn't sure if they were a good/bad/neutral indicator, I guessed had. Are they actually a positive?
Click to expand...

it means your soil has good microbial activity and good organic matter. But usually mushrooms also indicate dampness which can lead to fungus like mushrooms, and the other bad kind that kills your lawn.


----------



## Chris LI

DiabeticKripple said:


> abstract said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some small mushrooms popped up today, so there's definitely some soil activity.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey question on the mushrooms, I've had some for the last couple of weeks, and wasn't sure if they were a good/bad/neutral indicator, I guessed had. Are they actually a positive?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it means your soil has good microbial activity and good organic matter. But usually mushrooms also indicate dampness which can lead to fungus like mushrooms, and the other bad kind that kills your lawn.
Click to expand...

^+1 
@abstract It can be a mixed bag. I've gambled a little with fungus by watering later in the day to reduce stress. I only watered yesterday, because the turf was moist from barely a drizzle. Since it was already wet and humidity was high, I watered one last time deeply, before laying off water for a few days. Hopefully, the RGS and Air-8 got pushed down into the soil profile and will encourage deeper rooting along with the deep watering.


----------



## abstract

> ^+1
> @abstract It can be a mixed bag. I've gambled a little with fungus by watering later in the day to reduce stress. I only watered yesterday, because the turf was moist from barely a drizzle. Since it was already wet and humidity was high, I watered one last time deeply, before laying off water for a few days. Hopefully, the RGS and Air-8 got pushed down into the soil profile and will encourage deeper rooting along with the deep watering.


Yeah the rain has been frustrating the last week or so (until today's >1" deluge), just enough to get the lawn damp in the evening, but not enough to deliver much watering benefit. I cut my back lawn down from 4" to 3" to help it dry out a bit, Was also getting some floppiness at 4", which wasn't helping with the drying either.


----------



## DiabeticKripple

I don't think one or two evening waterings is enough to cause fungus issues. Repeated days in a row of moisture will host the fungus well though.

I tend to water mostly in the evening because it's when I have time. I haven't had any fungus issues in the front where I let it dry for a few days before watering again. In the back I'm soaking it 4 times a day growing seed so I'm starting to see fungus.


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday, I mulch mowed with the Ninja blade at 2", but skipped trimming and edging, which I really need to do. The front was a little overgrown, due to the 6 day cycle. The AS from the Stress X kicked in with the watering. I would have mowed on Monday at 4 days, but I ran out of steam from work and it rained some on my way home on Tuesday, so that killed that mow. I thought it looked pretty decent, but wasn't going to take photos until my son came out to compliment my stripes. I thanked him and told him that I didn't even put the striping attachment on. I took one for posterity. 


RV came back Tuesday, BEFORE the rain, and we received 0.99" rain yesterday AFTER (obviously) it was already parked. That was a blessing, because it always seemed like my lawn got destroyed when the area was wet and soft, anytime it was moved. I am very thankful for being spared this time. One year, it culminated in my BIL burying it in the yard, sticking halfway into the street in a 3" deluge. It's still not as level as it needs to be near the apron, but I'm getting better at leveling with practice.


----------



## jabopy

Well Chris your lad was right, the lawn looks great. :thumbup: I'm having the same trouble mowing with the rain coming just when I thought it was safe to mow. :roll:


----------



## Chris LI

jabopy said:


> Well Chris your lad was right, the lawn looks great. :thumbup: I'm having the same trouble mowing with the rain coming just when I thought it was safe to mow. :roll:


Thank you! I ran into the rain issue again with rain last evening (0.4"), so I'm avoiding mowing today before work. We need the rain, so I don't mind it. I wanted to get a mow in for the holiday weekend, but we roll with the punches.


----------



## M32075

Chris LI said:


> Yesterday, I mulch mowed with the Ninja blade at 2", but skipped trimming and edging, which I really need to do. The front was a little overgrown, due to the 6 day cycle. The AS from the Stress X kicked in with the watering. I would have mowed on Monday at 4 days, but I ran out of steam from work and is rained some on my way home on Tuesday, so that killed that mow. I thought it looked pretty decent, but wasn't going to take photos until my son came out to compliment my stripes. I thanked him and told him that I didn't even put the striping attachment on. I took one for posterity.
> 
> 
> RV came back Tuesday, BEFORE the rain, and we received 0.99" rain yesterday AFTER (obviously) it was already parked. That was a blessing, because it always seemed like my lawn got destroyed when the area was wet and soft, anytime it was moved. I am very thankful for being spared this time. One year, it culminated in my BIL burying it in the yard, sticking halfway into the street in a 3" deluge. It's still not as level as it needs to be near the apron, but I'm getting better at leveling with practice.


 lawn looks fantastic 👍


----------



## Chris LI

@M32075 
Thank you!

Yesterday, I squeezed in a mulch mow right before the lighting and drizzle hit. At 5 days it was overgrown and I violated the 1/3 rule. 
I stayed @2" with the Ninja blade. The edge is way overgrown, so no photos. There is a little crabgrass break through, but it's not too bad. I think good fertility and corn gluten helped hold it back (no conventional PreM). I decided to post a current photo of the domination line on the hellstrip, for reference.


----------



## Green

Oh my gosh, the double hockeystick strip gets even narrower!


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Oh my gosh, the double hockeystick strip gets even narrower!


 :lol: I'm not sure why they poured that extra little slab. It's only a few feet wide and doesn't seem to serve a purpose.


----------



## DAM Lawn

Now that is a domination line. Small but very distinct!!! Good job keeping that crabgrass away.


----------



## Chris LI

DAM Lawn said:


> Now that is a domination line. Small but very distinct!!! Good job keeping that crabgrass away.


Thanks! That strip is the buffer zone I created a few years ago to protect my lawn, and it held up so far. I was maintaining up to the telephone pole that you can see a sliver of it on the left side of the photo. I seeded this buffer zone because I had weed seeds blowing in because the area wasn't maintained, and consider it like a DMZ. I treat it like the rest of the lawn area and am pleased that it has held up so far. I figured that I would point it out to help give some folks ideas of how to deal with weed farms that surround them. It's unmaintained town land that I give some TLC. That's why the background looks like a wilderness. :lol:


----------



## Chris LI

It's been HHH, but the grass is still growing and needed to be mowed, so I mowed yesterday.

First, I broke out my Echo PAS curved stick edger attachment to clean up the unsightly edges. I love that thing and highly suggest the system! Stihl also has the same type of system, for folks who prefer Stihl.

I followed up with my Echo PAS string trimmer and also went to town with it on the wild grapevines that invade from the town land and cause the wild cherry to drop, interfering with my main sprinkler head by the RV. I've been trimming the wild cherry, but don't want to get rid of it because it provides shade.

I switched back to the freshly sharpened newer Gator blade which stands up the grass better and mulches leaves much better than the Ninja, to get all the junk up from the trimming, dried leaves and maple poly noses.
I stuck with 2" HOC and since the Gator stands the blades up better it will be slightly shorter than the Ninja and more accurately 2". Between the blade switch and no striping kit, I'm trying to increase airflow and reduce stress/fungus friendly conditions. Since there was a few leaves that got away I double cut the front with my two favorite patterns, to clean it up. It looks good and is pretty thick, so I'm happy in general. I think the soil corrections, Bioplex, CE and NeXT Products are working well together. I just need to get some more iron down for color.

Even though we are waiting for T.S. Fay to arrive, the turf was exhibiting signs of stress, so I deeply watered to remedy it and soften the soil for the forthcoming rain.

This morning, I ran out to get some Rgs and Air-8 down at Compaction Cure rates before the rain and got caught a little. Of course, it stopped raining as I finished. I'm drying out and waiting for the rain to start up to continue watering it in. My walking pace was better (a little faster), so I achieved the 1 gallon/K rate.

Photos from yesterday:


----------



## Chris LI

I was too tired to mow yesterday after work, so I had to do it today. 2" mulching with new Gator, as usual. Man, it is thick! After 5 days it's still overgrown at these temps 85*-87* most of the last several days. The roughly 1.75" of rain from TS Fay kept it growing, but it's dried out and stressed, a little. Since the blades felt wet (when I picked about 8 crabgrass seedlings out of the main lawn), I decided to water, even though this is the 1st day in a week with the humidity below 50%. I finished in the dark and the burger is ready on the grill now. :beer:


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## Babameca

Looks awesome, and again so so so cauzy under the trees. You have a nice patch of planet Earth brother.
And this 'domination' stripe :lol: It is killing me...and the neighbors, I am sure.


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## Matix99def

That's the first time I have seen a pic of your backyard! Do you use that fire table a lot??


----------



## Chris LI

@Babameca and @Matix99def
Thank you, that is very kind. Yes, we use it fairly often. Morning coffee to watch the birds, and fire at night to extend the outdoor season. We moved it onto the deck this year from the traditional fire pit location at the corner of the small patio, so we could put the old wood fire pit back, to have the best of both worlds. Since it's propane, we don't have to worry about embers or ashes on the deck.


----------



## Matix99def

How long does a tank of propane last if you had to guess? I have been debating on buying one.


----------



## Chris LI

@Matix99def
Not as long as I would like; maybe 6-10 hours on low, which is where we usually keep it.


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## Matix99def

O wow. I would have expected longer. That's a. Standard 20lb tank I assume?


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## Chris LI

Matix99def said:


> O wow. I would have expected longer. That's a. Standard 20lb tank I assume?


Yes, a 20 lb. tank. I would think so, too. I haven't actually timed it, so it might run a little longer, but I wanted to err on the side of caution.


----------



## Chris LI

I'm catching up on my journal...

Thursday night-Friday we received a decent amount of rain; probably 0.25".

Yesterday, I mulch mowed @ 2" and violated the 1/3 rule. Surprisingly, 7 days is too long of an interval, even though it's getting cooked like pretty much everyone else's in most of the US. I ran the DIY irrigation in all zones for a good while, since it was already wet to the touch, as I picked a few crabgrass during the mow. Crape Myrtles are beginning to bloom.

Today, I felt major heat coming up from the driveway and sidewalk when I got home, and had to pound the turf with some water. It's hurting from the heatwave. We received a little relief from a T-storm, which delivered 0.16", so far. Photos are from yesterday. I'm starting to regret not raising HOC to 2.5" yesterday. Hopefully, what I see in the morning will reassure my decision to stay at 2". Color is not much better than the neighbor's, which is usually much darker at my typical higher HOC, for this time of year. Photos are from yesterday:


----------



## jabopy

Great photos Chris. &#128076;Love looking in on your hard work&#128517; Just thought Chris do you use your stick edger for all the edging or only the concrete to grass edge? I'm toying with buying one! But my edges are mainly up to soil.


----------



## Chris LI

jabopy said:


> Great photos Chris. 👌Love looking in on your hard work😅 Just thought Chris do you use your stick edger for all the edging or only the concrete to grass edge? I'm toying with buying one! But my edges are mainly up to soil.


Thank you! I only use the stick edger along the concrete to grass edge. I tried it once or twice along the curve of the main bed and it was difficult for me to control and get a clean edge. The string trimmer does a better job and is more maneuverable. If I need to clean up and redefine that edge, I'll use my trusty landscaper spade. I have over 100' of sidewalk, so that's x3 including the curb line, so I have 300'-400' when you include the edges of the driveway. It was a good investment for me.


----------



## Mark B

Chris LI said:


> Yesterday, I mulch mowed @ 2" and violated the 1/3 rule. Surprisingly, 7 days is too long of an interval, even though it's getting cooked like pretty much everyone else's in most of the US. I ran the DIY irrigation in all zones for a good while, since it was already wet to the touch, as I picked a few crabgrass during the mow. Crape Myrtles are beginning to bloom.
> 
> Today, I felt major heat coming up from the driveway and sidewalk when I got home, and had to pound the turf with some water. It's hurting from the heatwave. We received a little relief from a T-storm, which delivered 0.16", so far. Photos are from yesterday. I'm starting to regret not raising HOC to 2.5" yesterday. Hopefully, what I see in the morning will reassure my decision to stay at 2". Color is not much better than the neighbor's, which is usually much darker at my typical higher HOC, for this time of year.


Hi Chris, do you use PGR? 
Seems like it would suit your situation but I didn't see you mentioning it in your journal, maybe I missed it. 
Fantastic garden btw... Love the updates :thumbup:


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## Trailz516

@Chris LI Everything looking great as usual!


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## Chris LI

@Mark B
No, I haven't used PGR, but I've been thinking about it for next year. Thanks for the compliments on the garden. I like the balance between the two, as I can see you do as well, from your journal.


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## Chris LI

@Trailz516
Thank you! We're in summer survival mode.


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## JDgreen18

Was just reading your journal you have a very nice property.


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## Chris LI

@JDgreen18
Thank you, that's very kind. Likewise, I enjoy looking at your property/journal; in particular the fall color contrasting against your stripes.


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## Chris LI

@Butter
In reference to my post in your journal; I picked a large handful of weeds tonight (mostly crabgrass) near dusk, and the turf was wet (dew point is 76*+), so I'm watering now, because tomorrow the prediction is for 95* with high humidity (Heat Index 100+). I hope to lay off water for 1-2 days after that, but I'm due for a mow, so we'll see. Front yard is easily 5-10 degrees hotter than the backyard, where my weather station is located, so we'll see what actually happens. It's down to 75* now, so hopefully it won't be too bad. Relief is predicted for the end of the week.


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## Butter

I like your approach to watering when the turf is already wet from dew. Very interesting. I had never really thought of it like that.


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## Chris LI

It's still HHH! I mulch mowed after work yesterday @2" and it still looks fairly dense. After 6 days, it was still overgrown and I violated the 1/3 rule. I started at around 6 pm after it dropped to 89* (I just couldn't start when it was 90*-the high for the day). 
It didn't hit the predicted high of 95*, but boy was it humid. The low only dropped to 76*, so I knew the residual heat wouldn't dissipate enough to keep today's temperatures in check. Today was actually predicted to be cooler, but wound up being 92*, but a bit drier, as the dew point was closer to 70* (yesterday it was 76*). Yesterday, I held off of water, trying to reduce encouraging disease, and because I sprayed Essentia IC3 for mosquitoes. It smells really good, too.

Today, the front looked like hay and took a beating from the heat, so I deeply watered only that area. The PRG is getting cooked where there is no irrigation by the RV. We'll see what is left after the summer.

Photos are from yesterday:


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## M32075

The lawn looks fantastic considering the brutal heat and humidity we been battling for weeks on end.


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## jabopy

Awe Chris get your line trimmer out to those edges round your trees!!&#129299; Still looking good though.&#128077;


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## Chris LI

@M32075 
Thanks! I hope you are hanging in there, too. We can usually endure a regular heat wave, but this extended heat wave is really beating us up with the continued high humidity as the kicker. Weed pressure and heat stress are really high. I'm bracing for disease pressure. I've been watering like a bandit today, and sprayed Hydretain for the first time at 9 oz/gallon/1000. It looks like the deep watering from the last two days helped some.

@jabopy :lol:
You are right! I need to edge the tree rings and everything else, too. I hope to get to it tomorrow and I have some Roundup gel stick left for the zoysia which is intruding on those tree rings.

Today was irrigation day. While I was irrigating some areas, I was working on others. My Hunter Pro Spray bodies and MP 3000 rotator heads came in a couple of weeks ago, but I haven't had the time to install them. I swapped a gear drive out for one in the backyard to reduce overwatering in part of a zone, while maintaining throw and increasing pressure to the other heads in the zone. Also, I finally spliced in a hose to the broken hose for the head in the front by the small bed in front of the steps. It has been out of service for 2-3 years, causing me to hand water a lot more than I needed to over that time. That got a MP3000, too. It helped cover a long range with less pressure drop to other heads on the same zone. The 3000's (blue) are the longest throw heads (21'-30'). As other folks have mentioned, the MP rotators are worth it for specialty situations. I highly recommend them from this initial experience and plan to swap at least a couple more out with some of the 1000 and/or 2000 heads. Researching them, I also discovered that they are not affected by wind as much as typical pop up heads, which is a big bonus for me, because we can get high winds at times, which can be very frustrating.

Photos are of main front recovery. The edge by the driveway is a high traffic area which was beat up by heat stress, lack of irrigation and Poa A crapping out. The repaired zone with MP3000 should help out a lot. The area looks better from yesterday.


----------



## Chris LI

Received 0.87" of rain today and the temperature barely reached 80*. It's 70* now, so tonight's low will most likely be below 70* for the first time in awhile. At least one day of relief.


----------



## Chris LI

No mowing, fert, etc. for the lawn today with the TS blowing us around. Between yesterday and today, we had 0.24" of rain (0.08" & 0.16"). I would say that we had a glancing blow. I hope everyone in our lawn community is OK. We did have a couple of tragedies in our area that I'm aware of, so far, and I hope everyone affected will be OK. My thoughts are with those who are suffering.

I only post at this time to document what is going on in my immediate area. Folks in the neighborhood are out of power and I hear the familiar generators they are running and it reminds me of Sandy, nearly 8 years ago.

I spent 3 hours after work trimming, clearing and raking. Since there is a tree down on my street past the house, I took the opportunity to help the town prune and remove wild cherry and wild grapevines, along with the limbs and twigs that came down in the yard. As much as I want a Swardman, I know that I cannot give up my beast of a mower (my Snapper Hi-Vac); and yes I stole that nickname from @Butter, but it is very appropriate. I have friends and co-workers who have trees on their homes and are out of power, so my prayers go out to them and all affected.


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## Butter

@Chris LI I hope everyone is ok. These kind of events tend to put things in perspective. 
The BEAST is honored!


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## Chris LI

Butter said:


> @Chris LI I hope everyone is ok. These kind of events tend to put things in perspective.
> The BEAST is honored!


Thank you. We are all OK and are very fortunate to not have lost power. The folks behind us in the development still have generators running. I spent several hours today picking up the remaining branches and raking up twigs, leaves, etc.

The TS set me back with lawn duties, so I eventually got to trimming, edging, blowing and mowing. This week was definitely a bag mow. Between 9 days since the last mow, and all the twigs and junk in the yard, I swapped out the new Gator and threw an edge on the old one, before installing on the "Beast" (skipped all caps in honor of Butter's vintage "BEAST", until I come up with a good nickname . The front was tall and thick, so I bit the bullet and raised HOC to 2.5" for the front and retained 2" for the back.

I ran out of steam and didn't get to spray K4L EB or FeATURE/AS. I need to use up last year's batch of EB, as my Tuesday 2 for 1 deal is on its way. It seems like I haven't dropped any kind of fert in quite awhile (StressX, last drop).


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## Trailz516

@Chris LI Glad to hear the storm didn't affect you too much. Your place looks great. I've had no power since Tuesday afternoon but luckily no major damage.


----------



## Butter

@Chris LI Looks like it cleaned up pretty good.


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## Chris LI

Trailz516 said:


> @Chris LI Glad to hear the storm didn't affect you too much. Your place looks great. I've had no power since Tuesday afternoon but luckily no major damage.


Oh, man. I hope they get the power back on for you soon! I've been checking the PSEG outage map, and it's getting a little better. It shows the folks on the block behind me were mostly restored this afternoon and I don't hear generators running. The streetlights peeking through the trees are the telltale signs. A couple of sets of friends in Huntington finally were back on today, and they were hard hit with all those old world growth hardwoods. I hope you have power back on before you read this.


----------



## Chris LI

Butter said:


> @Chris LI Looks like it cleaned up pretty good.


Absolutely! Even without the using Hi Vac bagging blade, it picks up all sorts of twigs, acorns, etc., with the Gator blade.


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday, I continued using the sawzall with pruning blade to remove some storm damaged branches laying on the fence. While the battery was charging, I sprayed the front yard with K4L EB and FeATURE at 1.5 tsp and 2 oz. per gallon/1000. The battery finished charging, so I completed round 2 on cleanup and finished up spraying the backyard in the dark (and unfortunately drizzle). We'll see what happens.

Temperatures are moderating a bit with low to mid 80's for highs, with mid to high 70's on rainy/overcast days. The low on Thursday night was 69* and last night was 70*.


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## Chris LI

The moderating temperatures will be short lived. I received a work e-mail at 10:34 AM with a NOAA Heat Advisory Briefing. Temps/humidity will begin increasing over today and tomorrow. Moday-Thursday will be very high. So far, heat indices for M&T are mid-high 90's. I'm glad that I had time to get the sprinkler repairs done, before this moderate spell with a little rain.


----------



## Chris LI

I came home from work today, to a large number of leaves shed by my Norway maple and some from my red maples. It was no surprise, as a lot of trees and shrubs all over the tri-state area had major wind burn from the TS. I need to decide if I want to mulch them in, or bag the next mow, since I have a few tiny twigs around (really, not many at all).

Between Hydretain, K4L EB/FeATURE, and moderate temperatures with a little rain, the lawn has seen a noticeable improvement, and is growing like gangbusters. The 2.5" front HOC is already needing a mow big time, since I mowed on Thursday. I have some chlorosis on the mini-hellstrip between the driveway aprons that I'm trying to figure out.

I'm preemptively watering now before the heatwave. I love my new MP rotators, and need to swap a few more out. I picked up some more last week, but haven't had the time.


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## Green

@Chris LI, you're lucky you didn't lose power. We got it back after 4 days, which seems about average. I started picking up sticks and mowing today. Thankfully only one small tree broke and fell on the property, and it fell into a natural area. Still, I don't like to see any of the remaining trees break.

I wanted to ask you about the chlorosis. I've been seeing fluorescent yellow-green grass the past week or two, near the sidewalk especially. Is that what you're seeing? Someone mentioned a video in my journal that explains what I'm seeing, but I haven't watched it yet.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> @Chris LI, you're lucky you didn't lose power. We got it back after 4 days, which seems about average. I started picking up sticks and mowing today. Thankfully only one small tree broke and fell on the property, and it fell into a natural area. Still, I don't like to see any of the remaining trees break.
> 
> I wanted to ask you about the chlorosis. I've been seeing fluorescent yellow-green grass the past week or two, near the sidewalk especially. Is that what you're seeing? Someone mentioned a video in my journal that explains what I'm seeing, but I haven't watched it yet.


Yes, we were very thankful to not lose power. I know a lot of people in the US lost power, and some lost a lot more. One of my coworkers had a huge oak tree land on his house with way too much sunlight visible from the inside. Tarps are out of stock in my area. The irony is that we've had electricity the whole time, but no TV in the living room since 7/28 because the warranty company sent the wrong part. Today a new box arrived. Hopefully, it's the right part. It's a minor inconvenience compared to what other folks are dealing with.

As far as the chlorosis, that is exactly what I'm seeing, and in the same location. I will look for the video link in your journal. I think it's related to heat/drought stress, since the only irrigation is hand watering. I don't recall seeing that in past years.


----------



## Green

@Chris LI, I just found and started reading an interesting, relevant article: http://gsrpdf.lib.msu.edu/ticpdf.py?file=/2000s/2006/060307.pdf

There are pieces here that I think apply to what we've been observing.
I'll finish reading tomorrow, but my guess is that I'm going to rethink my watering strategy even more...water the minimum amount (the fewest inches at a time required) and maximum interval (days between watering) needed in Summer. Unfortunately, the interval is pretty non-negotiable (two to three times per week generally in Summer). But the watering depth, and time of day is changeable to an extent. Also, whether or not to water in the middle of a hot day is negotiable. Maybe I should stop doing watering while temps are around 90 in blazing sun; I don't know. But then you have the issue of fungus if you water in the afternoon after the sun is decreased. The good news is, Bentgrass is more susceptible than what we use, and it sounds like the more sand in the soil, the worse the heat transfer to roots.

Parts of this, like high soil temps on wet soils, and scald, clearly relate to lawn care and not just golf turf.


----------



## Chris LI

@Green 
Thank you. I will read up on this over the next few days. I also have some more research to do about the best course of action for my maples, which are shedding leaves like crazy from the wind burn they received during the storm. They've received a good amount of water along with the lawn. I will probably break out the Essential 1-0-1 and K4L EB in the hose end sprayer and maybe drop some alfalfa pellets. Additionally, maybe some Hydretain and liquid yucca from K4L will be another strategy. Some of these may find their way onto the small hellstrip we started discussing, originally.


----------



## Chris LI

@Green
Here is a photo to illustrate the chlorosis taken on Monday before I mowed. It's not too bad, but the kbg is affected more so than the TTTF and other types. Up close, the color looked blotchy on the leaf blades, almost like a Tenacity application.


----------



## Chris LI

Catching up on my journal...Monday, I decided to mulch mow to recycle as much OM (especially mixing greens and browns) as possible and save time, since I started late after work. I kept front and back at 2.5", which looks so long, after being at 2" for the bulk of the late spring and summer. Also, I figured that there would be a lot more leaves coming down, so what would be the point of bagging, anyway. I finished in the dark, so no photos.

I watered Monday and Tuesday nights ahead of the heat. Highs have been close to 90* (88* on T and 89* on W), with very high humidity and a little rain overnight into Wed (0.03"), so I don't think I encouraged fungus much.

Between today and tomorrow, I plan to mow. T-storms are predicted for the afternoon, so we'll see about today. Growth is strong and and I need to up mowing frequency to get my HOC back down soon. Leaves continue to come down in droves and I can see straight through the canopy from the bottom due to missing limbs and defoliation. This is not good.


----------



## CTTurfDad

I hear you on the tree damage. My two maples are dropping leaves like crazy! My mulch mow two days ago felt like the typical first leaf mulching mow of the fall. I agree with you, not good.


----------



## Chris LI

CTTurfDad said:


> I hear you on the tree damage. My two maples are dropping leaves like crazy! My mulch mow two days ago felt like the typical first leaf mulching mow of the fall. I agree with you, not good.


It was too rainy for me to mow today. I think I have a plan for tomorrow to help with tree recovery. If I have enough time:
1. Spread alfalfa pellets around trunks and into lawn areas below the canopy. 
2. Mulch mow lawn to also mulch the pellets and all the newly dropped leaves. 
3. Stress-X 4-0-25 on the lawn, spreading also into ground cover around the trunks. 
4. Maybe Essential 1-0-1 and/or K4L Extreme Blend. 
5. Water it all in.


----------



## Sinclair

I'm a big fan of alfalfa!


----------



## Chris LI

Sinclair said:


> I'm a big fan of alfalfa!


I got it down today as part of part 1 and 2 of my plan. I hope the triacontanol will benefit the trees (and grass, too). I love the smell of it; green and earthy in my garage. For awhile last fall and winter, it was laying in the back of my SUV. I was a little lazy to not remove it, but I enjoyed the smell when I climbed in, so that was a factor, too. Lol


----------



## Chris LI

As I mentioned above, I was only able to get to #1 and #2 of my plan. First, I spread the alfalfa pellets. Then, I spent a few hours today removing hangers still left over from the TS. My son gave me a hand footing the ladder, limbing small branches with the loppers, etc. I broke out the Snap Cut tri-sectional pole saw, Echo PAS pole pruner with two extensions and the Dewalt sawzall with pruning blade to get it done. I had to bail on my first part of the project after an hour of unsuccessfully slinging a bolt by mason line (leftover old style spacer for the BBC on my old JD 14SB) over the highest hanger in my Red Maple, so that's for another day.

After all the tree work, it was lawn time. The town removed all the storm damaged trees piled up along the street yesterday, so I got a full trim, edge, blow mow in. Front still at 2.5", since its growing, and dropped the back to 2". I mulched up as many leaves as the last mow, but hope I don't lose any more. The alfalfa pellets got a good mulching, too. I watered the two backyard zones thoroughly (which cover the trees) and the front zone by the RV. We had 0.03" of rain the previous night, but it's still dry with high 80's. Tomorrow will be more mild and even more so on Sunday, with some rain. 69* now.

I finished on the dark, so no lawn photos. However, here are some of the tree damage and defoliation:


----------



## Chris LI

It was a good soaking rain day. It started before I got up and was still going when I got home from work today. It seems to have stopped and the total is 0.68". We also got a huge relief in temperatures. The high was 71* and it's down to 66* now; the lowest in months. Fungus damage is starting to pile up, as I expected, with all the heat and humidity from the last several weeks. I hope the trees benefit from the rain and lower temps.


----------



## Chris LI

I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Today was the first day the high was under 80* on a sunny day (78*). The low dropped a little more after I went to bed last night to 63*. I can't wait until I see that first 59*. We got some more rain tonight with T-storms (0.69").

I tied up and pruned some tomatoes, but no real lawn work, other than surveying summer damage and breakdown of the alfalfa pellets.


----------



## BH Green

Chris LI said:


> I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Today was the first day the high was under 80* on a sunny day (78*). The low dropped a little more after I went to bed last night to 63*. I can't wait until I see that first 59*.


I feel you man it's been a very hot summer over here in the midwest too-also there's a moderate draught in my area. More temps in the low 90's this week for me, but at least it's getting cooler at night.

How are those new MP rotators working for you? I use those in my above ground setup and they work really well.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> @Chris LI, I just found and started reading an interesting, relevant article: http://gsrpdf.lib.msu.edu/ticpdf.py?file=/2000s/2006/060307.pdf
> 
> There are pieces here that I think apply to what we've been observing.
> I'll finish reading tomorrow, but my guess is that I'm going to rethink my watering strategy even more...water the minimum amount (the fewest inches at a time required) and maximum interval (days between watering) needed in Summer. Unfortunately, the interval is pretty non-negotiable (two to three times per week generally in Summer). But the watering depth, and time of day is changeable to an extent. Also, whether or not to water in the middle of a hot day is negotiable. Maybe I should stop doing watering while temps are around 90 in blazing sun; I don't know. But then you have the issue of fungus if you water in the afternoon after the sun is decreased. The good news is, Bentgrass is more susceptible than what we use, and it sounds like the more sand in the soil, the worse the heat transfer to roots.
> 
> Parts of this, like high soil temps on wet soils, and scald, clearly relate to lawn care and not just golf turf.


Thanks! I finally had a chance to read the article. It's quite interesting. I will keep it in mind, when I "pound it with water".


----------



## Chris LI

@BH Green 
I love the MP rotators! In particular, the MP3000's have given me the range (for better coverage) while boosting pressure on other heads (for better coverage) in the zone and reduced overwatering of the area covered by the MP rotator (all at the same time). I only replaced one head in each of two zones (strategically) and am very satisfied with the outcome. I've heard about them for awhile and finally took heed of others' advice and it was worthwhile for me, in the end. I picked up some more and may replace other heads in the future.


----------



## Chris LI

The lawn is continuing to recover. It's still growing like crazy, despite almost no fertilizer this summer. I need a little N and Fe, and still more K, so the Stress X will go down soon. Received 0.21" of rain today.


----------



## uts

Chris LI said:


> @BH Green
> I love the MP rotators! In particular, the MP3000's have given me the range (for better coverage) while boosting pressure on other heads (for better coverage) in the zone and reduced overwatering of the area covered by the MP rotator (all at the same time). I only replaced one head in each of two zones (strategically) and am very satisfied with the outcome. I've heard about them for awhile and finally took heed of others' advice and it was worthwhile for me, in the end. I picked up some more and may replace other heads in the future.


Are you using mp along with rotors or spray heads?


----------



## Chris LI

uts said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> @BH Green
> I love the MP rotators! In particular, the MP3000's have given me the range (for better coverage) while boosting pressure on other heads (for better coverage) in the zone and reduced overwatering of the area covered by the MP rotator (all at the same time). I only replaced one head in each of two zones (strategically) and am very satisfied with the outcome. I've heard about them for awhile and finally took heed of others' advice and it was worthwhile for me, in the end. I picked up some more and may replace other heads in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you using mp along with rotors or spray heads?
Click to expand...

Pro Spray heads. I picked some up on Amazon and then found cheaper ones at HD for $1.98 apiece. They supposedly are compatible with pop up heads from other companies (to retrofit existing heads), but I haven't tried retrofitting them yet. Also, I have an above ground setup like @BH Green


----------



## ruxie88

Chris LI said:


> Do you spread CGM in the fall? Thanks.


----------



## Chris LI

ruxie88 said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you spread CGM in the fall? Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I haven't, but I've considered it. I intended to last fall, but work/life got in the way. I wanted to see if it reduced Poa A.
Click to expand...


----------



## ruxie88

Chris LI said:


> ruxie88 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you spread CGM in the fall? Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I haven't, but I've considered it. I intended to last fall, but work/life got in the way. I wanted to see if it reduced Poa A.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks. I'm debating if I want to drop CGM or Prodiamine. Weed pressure has been very low all year, so I may be at a point where I am comfortable trusting CGM. POA A, while better this year, was still there in the spring.
Click to expand...


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## Chris LI

ruxie88 said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ruxie88 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I haven't, but I've considered it. I intended to last fall, but work/life got in the way. I wanted to see if it reduced Poa A.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I'm debating if I want to drop CGM or Prodiamine. Weed pressure has been very low all year, so I may be at a point where I am comfortable trusting CGM. POA A, while better this year, was still there in the spring.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Funny you mention it, I will probably go the opposite way, because weed pressure was higher for me this year. This is probably because I maintained a lower HOC (2") for too long before raising to 2.5". I couldn't maintain mowing frequency and violated the 1/3 rule too many times going into the summer. I have older granular Prodiamine that I will probably drop soon.

You could do both to get some good organic N down, too (unless you're more interested in the experiment).


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## Chris LI

Lawn day was Thursday. After a couple of rounds of mulching the heck out of leaves from the TS, I decided to bag for a few reasons:

1. Leaf litter finally reduced a little bit (hopefully, the defoliation is about to cease).

2. I needed to get matted leaves up, before it causes injury to thinned areas.

3. To pick up thatch/dead grass that I fluffed up with the blower.

4. I needed to make a fertilizer drop.

I string trimmed/edged/blew and kept the old Gator blade on and mowed @ 2.5" front and 2" backyard.

During my mow in the front, I had a gentleman pass by and circle the car around. He complimented me on the lawn and told me that I had the best lawn in the area, except for a guy along the nearby highway (who I've been comparing my lawn to for years). I was pretty flattered. He said that he'd been watching my lawn for years and figured he would stop by to chat. We both knew the guy along the highway had a landscaping business, so I felt I was in good company, and was humbled that someone in the business thought highly of my efforts. He asked what I used, and when I mentioned CGM, his eyes lit up, and he had been considering using it for his own landscaping business. We exchanged some ideas/experiences and he gave me his card. I plugged TLF and all the great info/people here, so maybe he'll pop up here at some point. We probably would have gone on for an hour, but his ice cream was melting from his supermarket trip, so he had to run. Nice guy, nice name...Chris 

...and back to business. The alfalfa pellets broke down fairly well and the residual was glued to the soil, so I didn't pick any up with the mower. I wanted to pick up any junk now, so I can mulch for the next couple of weeks. Stress X 4-0-25 went down at bag rate (#10 setting on Scotts drop, as a bookmark). The grass needed some N and I needed the SOP for my K deficiency. I sprayed Essential 1-0-1 @ 5 oz/K and K4L Extreme Blend @ 2 tbs/K on the main front with hose end sprayer. Due to clogging issues (humic was chunky in EB), sunset, and being pooped out, I called it a day.

Today was other project day, so I picked some Oxalis and a new weed, which infiltrated my long hellstrip by the RV. It resembles a cross between chickweed and spurge (more like spurge, or a variation of it). It has a thin strong root system (mainly taproot). Anyway, Triclopyr will be on the docket soon. Maybe I'll tank mix it with WBG to take out most of the nasties.

Mosquitoes have been bad lately, due to the August rains, so I sprayed EcoVia EC @ 4 oz/gallon. We'll see if it helps.


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## Chris LI

Work/life has been busy, so a quick update:

I mulch mowed @ 2.5" front and 2" back on Thursday (7-day interval) and pounded it with water. It was in stress due to not watering because I held off after mosquito spraying and we had a little rain. Dropped Bioplex at about 0.3 lbs N, except for under trees and trouble areas where I doubled it. Later that night, we received 0.32" of rain.

Last night, we finally hit 59* for the first time of the end if the summer. Woohoo!


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## Chris LI

I got detoured from lawn activities, but recouped later in the day.

After replacing the pressure switch on my compressor, I used it to replace a front rotor on my truck. Drilling and tapping the connections for ground and swapping the gauges and regulator took more time than pulling the brake assembly and swapping out the rotor...go figure. It was well worthwhile. Pulling 8 lugs with a T wrench is a killer and an impact wrench is a blessing.

Anyway, after test driving the truck , complete with a 44 gallon diesel fill up, and stop to pick up some IPAs at the local brewery, I was able to squeeze in a double cut @ 45* on the main front (@2.5" mulch), just after sunset. I finished by streetlight. Lol

More to do, tomorrow.


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## Chris LI

I got called into work early yesterday to work a 12 hour shift, so I wasn't able to get to the lawn. Today, I finished mowing with a double cut on the front on the RV side at 2.5", and a mostly single cut in the back at 2"; both mulch mows. Lawn is ugly right now with more than average fungus death and zoysia really took over this year at the lower HOC. Until I can reno both sides of the front, I will need to go 2.5"-3" in the future, for the summer, for it to look satisfactory.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, 2.10" of rain with 99% between 6&9 am. It was a little too soggy to do much, so I raked out some dead/thin spots with a metal spring rake. Today was trim, blow, mow bagging @2.5" front & 2" rear to prepare for a spot seed.


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## Mark B

Hey Chris, nice updates.
Sorry to hear you are being hit with some fungus in the lawn. Do you know what it is/how are you dealing with it?
However, I'm dying to see your next batch of photos! Your garden always looks great. :nod:


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## Chris LI

@Mark B
Thank you. That is very kind. I don't know exactly what killed off areas of the lawn. 
I think it is a combination of contributing factors. Heat/drought stress is part of the issue, as the areas hit the hardest have most of the exposure, and my DIY irrigation system does not have optimal coverage. The lawn seemed to survive early fungus infections, but I think some BP took out some sections. I have not seen rust yet on my Bewitched, but there still is some time. Some sections that were seeded last year, bit it and I think sprinkler coverage/slight slope/competing roots from the vacant lot had a lit to do with it. I don't use fungicides for a few reasons (reduce environmental impact quotient [EIQ] from my golf days; kids; time; Darwinist approach; etc.). Time is at a premium for me in the summer with work commitments, and I try to make some time for the family. The kids are older and don't really play in the lawn much anymore, so this may change over time.

My approach is to put the lawn in the best possible position before summer hits, nurse it to keep it alive during the summer and, reincarnate it for the fall. I started hitting it with some fertilizer for recovery and need to get some spot seed down ASAP and fall PreM. As for photos, I will try to post some soon. I've been finishing in the dark and haven't been able to keep up with the garden either.

We had the second low that dropped into the 50's last night (59*), and today's high was only 73* so that helps. Grass is showing some recovery, so that is promising.

Edit: I forgot to mention that some Poa A die off, contributed to some dead spots; mostly on the main front lawn in front of the main bed and next to the driveway. I plan on some Prodiamine this year, if I can find some time to get it down this week.


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## Chris LI

I'm falling behind due to unforeseen circumstances, but I'm hanging in there. 10 days since the last mow, the front was very overgrown and the back was moderately overgrown. I mulch mowed (2.5" front & 2"back), and finished in the dark, as usual. There was no time for trimming, edging or blowing. A double cut on the front was mandatory. Damaged areas are beginning to heal, but I'm way overdue for spot seeding and PreM (Prodiamine) in other (most) areas...maybe later this week.

I snapped a couple of photos for @Mark B after I finished the main front. Myrtle are thankfully still in bloom and the Dahlias actually look pretty good. A scant few Rudebeckias are still lingering (and some early season Ageratum which haven't been smothered my other plants). Time has been limited, so the garden has taken a backseat, with barely any time to get a mow in.


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## Mark B

Garden is looking good Chris, great to see some color rewarding you! Thanks for the pictures. You gotta love the dahlias, they have such a long flowering season if you keep up the dead heading. I've been doing mine twice a week.
I haven't got any preM down yet either but thinking of doing a tenacity regimen for my poa annua.
Whatever you are doing is working and the garden will wait for you whenever you have to take some time for unforeseen circumstances, I hope things work out for you, best regards.


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## Chris LI

@Mark B
My tag team partner (Mother-in-law), did a bunch of weeding, trimming and/or fall cut down of perennials and dead heading (i.e. Roses, Tall Phlox, Dahlias, etc.) over the last couple of days, so I came behind with the mower to bag up a bunch of debris.

Before mowing, I sharpened the newer Gator blade and swapped it on the old one was dull as a butter knife. Also, I pulled the recoil off the mower and lubed it up. It has been binding and not retracting properly for way too long. While I had the cover off, I adjusted the magneto. It has a dual setup and one side was dragging. Then I lowered the front HOC to 2". Usual string trimming/edging. The front yard took a beating this summer and the zoysia really took over. I also bag mowed the rear at the same 2". The weather has been dry, so I'm irrigating the front now.

Photos hopefully soon. Nothing to write home about.


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> The front yard took a beating this summer and the zoysia really took over.


Tenacity. Itll also cover your delayed pre-M and buy time.

You probably knew that was coming.


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> The front yard took a beating this summer and the zoysia really took over.
> 
> 
> 
> Tenacity. Itll also cover your delayed pre-M and buy time.
> 
> You probably knew that was coming.
Click to expand...

Yup...and is already on my list lol. I was hoping to get to drop some late spot seed, Bioplex, Tenacity, Prodiamine and some N-Ext products, but not enough time today. Tomorrow's another day (unfortunately, after work).


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## Chris LI

I'm very late to the party for seeding, but I needed to get some done. I spot spiked with my Overseed Enhancing tool, dropped tri-rye, and spiked it in. Watered remaining zone in back under trees thoroughly and turned it off after it started to rain. Next year, I will need to apply insecticide. I noticed some grub damage in the main front lawn, when the hand spiker started pulling up a section of turf.


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## TheWestminsterClub

Lawn looks awesome! I got to see it in person heading to the store one evening a few weeks back.


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## Chris LI

TheWestminsterClub said:


> Lawn looks awesome! I got to see it in person heading to the store one evening a few weeks back.


Thank you! That is very kind and a bit uplifting. I haven't been feeling very good about it lately. I pushed it a little too much to keep a lower HOC in the front (2") at peak summer with a DIY irrigation system and it suffered from heat/drought stress and continued encroachment of zoysia. It's recovering now, so I'm hopeful it will snap a bit back into shape. I really want to put some stripes down, but it's not ready yet.


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## Pezking7p

Gardens look fantastic, and even though I can see the area you don't like, the lawn looks great, too. It's a process.


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## Chris LI

Pezking7p said:


> Gardens look fantastic, and even though I can see the area you don't like, the lawn looks great, too. It's a process.


Thank you! Thanks for the support. It's a labor of love. The TLF community is great group of folks to swap info with and offer encouragement. I find it very satisfying to contribute and hope others can benefit from both my positive and negative experiences.


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## Chris LI

@Chief Brody
I saw your question about zoysia mixed with a cool season turfgrass in @M32075 's journal and thought I could offer some insight, since I am in that situation. I didn't want to hijack his journal, so I'm posting here. Feel free to check out my journal, as I have battled zoysia and have tried to get it to cohabitate with my kbg and TTTF. The last couple of years, I have been lowering my HOC because I love the density. However, the lawn has paid a price with the zoysia gaining ground.

If you are trying to intermingle it with a cool season turf, you will need to gear all your your cultural practices towards the cool season turf (higher HOC, fertilizing early spring & mid-late fall [avoid late spring to early fall]). Right now, the differences are very noticeable because we had a cold snap two weeks ago and the zoysia got hit with some early dormancy. Temps sprang back to the high 70's, but the zoysia hasn't recovered. The cool season turf is looking much better. I snapped some photos to show you how much of a difference in growth is between the two. During the spring and summer, it's more even and less noticeable (color and growth habit).
















My front yard has a southern exposure and gets cooked in the summer, so the zoysia can infiltrate. I have pretty decent shade in the backyard, so it wouldn't dare try, less a couple of areas. I hope this helps.


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## Green

Looks like the Zoysia is definitely starting to fade (seeing some brown blades and pale color). Here, our drought was/is worse, and over the past week, a lot of Zoysia has really been fading out...going brown. I just don't think it can hold up without water at the end of the season. So it goes dormant a bit earlier than normal.


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> Looks like the Zoysia is definitely starting to fade (seeing some brown blades and pale color). Here, our drought was/is worse, and over the past week, a lot of Zoysia has really been fading out...going brown. I just don't think it can hold up without water at the end of the season. So it goes dormant a bit earlier than normal.


Good observation. Even though the temperatures bounced back into the high 70's the zoysia hasn't perked up too much. The cool season grasses are going nuts. I watered today (one back zone is still on) to keep the seeds moist. We'll see if the zoysia bounces back. Temperatures are dropping tomorrow, but not as much as folks inland. I really need to mow tomorrow and drop more N.


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> Temperatures are dropping tomorrow, but not as much as folks inland. I really need to mow tomorrow and drop more N.


Yeah, lots of 60s here (inland) starting tomorrow. Maybe one chance for 70 in the forecast.

Parts of the midwest have been getting into the 50s for highs some days, though.

My soil temps were still 70 yesterday. I'm still seeding. It ain't over yet.


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## Chris LI

I watered last night to keep the spot seed moist and it rained late last night and some this morning.

Side discharge mowed this afternoon (2") when the sun dried things out a little. It was still wet and I had a lot of Red Oak leaves that blew across the street (as they always do), so I preferred to SD over bag or mulch. I didn't want to pick up any seed or fert, and didn't want to have to clean the deck after mulching. I did my Zamboni pattern thing since this was probably the first fall leaf mulching episode. 7 days on the mow and it was way overgrown. I need to up my frequency to 2x per week.

@Green
The zoysia continues to take a dormancy hit despite the 65* and sun. I don't think I can drag it along to keep it looking green.


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> @Green
> The zoysia continues to take a dormancy hit despite the 65* and sun. I don't think I can drag it along to keep it looking green.


Call it crazy, but while out on a walk before dinner today, I noticed the Zoysia yard and a hellstrip closest to me were a bit more green again. Tomorrow I'll walk further and check out the others. But I guess it's trying to green up one last time with the 2 inches of rain we got, and the sunny day in the mid 70s yesterday. Almost as green as yours. Not for long...


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Green
> The zoysia continues to take a dormancy hit despite the 65* and sun. I don't think I can drag it along to keep it looking green.
> 
> 
> 
> Call it crazy, but while out on a walk before dinner today, I noticed the Zoysia yard and a hellstrip closest to me were a bit more green again. Tomorrow I'll walk further and check out the others. But I guess it's trying to green up one last time with the 2 inches of rain we got, and the sunny day in the mid 70s yesterday. Almost as green as yours. Not for long...
Click to expand...

Maybe some more N will help. I usually can get it to hang on to Halloween with the aggressive Fall N. I plan on dropping some Bioplex very soon and some urea, too. I don't have much urea left, but have AS, so I will use that later in the season.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I dropped ~0.5 lbs N of Bioplex 5-3-1 and watered all zones and hand watered non-DIY irrigated areas. Since there's a lot of slow-release N in it, I did a foliar spray of SLS 15-0-15 at 4 oz/gallon/1000 today. I'm watering it in now with the DIY...hand water sections are on their own tonight.


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## Chris LI

The lawn perked up with the fert apps, watering and a little natural precipitation. We had a nice warm, blustery day at 75*, and wrapped it up with a very brief shower (0.02") to cool it off a little and keep the seed moist. Tomorrow is predicted to be about 10* colder.

I noticed the first slight color change with a couple of trees showing a few yellow leaves up top on a ride a few miles up north. Zoysia keeps losing color. Cool season grasses are starting to pop up through the zoysia.


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## Chief Brody

@Chris LI

Thanks for tagging me and for sharing the info and pics!

( I may have to start my own lawn journal.. I've been using Instagram to document thus far! )

As much as I don't want to change the grass type in my front yard (the main stage, if you will), I'm just not in love with it.

I just did a mild renovation to the western side of my yard (a long strip) using tall fescue, and I'm having fantastic results and it will eventually blend into the backyard, which is also tall fescue.

I would like uniformity out front, but the way my main stage is.. I doubt that will happen on my watch. The main area is essentially a plateau, and the slopes on the east/north sides is a bit steep. Makes mowing and proper irrigation difficult. 
To correct that, that area would need a decent grading job to correct the issue and I'm just not sure it's in the cards.


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## Chris LI

@Chief Brody

I'm happy to help in any way. Large scale renos are not really in the cards for me either, because my work is very busy during that time. I have done very heavy overseeds with scalping, dethatching, etc. which has been very helpful in heading in the direction of uniformity. I also used TTTF and sometimes added kbg to the mix. Scalping instead of killing the existing grass, would be helpful to you to reduce washout potential on slopes, because you will have something for the seed to hang onto. Also, adding seeding mulch and a tackifier will add additional insurance. I haven't used PGR, but it might be helpful to get a jump start for the seed. TTTF will hold up ok against the zoysia if you mow it at its higher recommended HOC (3"+), but the zoysia will slowly take over. Favoring the cool season grasses with the higher HOC and fertilizing during the cooler times of year (with a little fert with iron going into the summer) will help the cool/warm season grasses to blend a bit better. Definitely go with the Aggressive Fall N program. It will pay dividends.

Oh, and you should definitely start a journal. It will help to track your progress...check out my photos from last fall to see a decent blending.


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## Chris LI

Trim, blow, mulch mow at 2" on a 6 day interval. It wasn't overgrown, but 5 days would have been a little better. Main front was double cut at 45*. The rest was single cut. Watered to keep seed moist, with winds drying everything out and a high of 64*. Tri-rye is starting to come in now, with better irrigated areas taller and thicker, and the existing lawn is starting to darken. Maybe photos tomorrow. I need to get my first urea app down with some Rgs and Air-8.


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## Chris LI

1st urea drop today after work. 0.5 lbs N/M in a double pass, except for seeded areas with a single pass at 0.25 lbs N/M. I lightly watered it in. Rain is expected tomorrow afternoon through Tuesday.


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## Chris LI

Mother Nature thoroughly watered in the urea over the past couple of days. A slow to steady rain for over 24 hours yesterday brought 1.5"+, and a drizzly, misty day today brought 0.25"+. It's already greening up and growing significantly. I need to mow now, but won't be able to get to it until Thursday. I'm considering raising HOC to 2.5".


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## Chris LI

Here's an update:

We had significant rain on Sunday and Monday of Columbus Day Weekend (~2" over the two days). It always seems to rain right before or during a camping trip when my Brother in law takes the RV out.

Brother in law brought the RV back on Tuesday 10/13, and did his best to straddle the hellstrip, with passenger side wheels on the edge of the sidewalk, without blocking most of the sidewalk. He was trying to avoid making major ruts and/or burying it while attempting to park it in the yard, like he did a couple of years ago. That's the good news.

The next day he pulled it in the yard, figuring it dried out enough. That's the bad news. He caused some minor ruts on both sides of the sidewalk, a few pulling into the yard, and a burn spot from the generator exhaust. The ruts weren't too bad, so hopefully they'll even out a little over time. He offered to tamp them down, but I said I would do it (but haven't felt like it yet).

Thursday 10/15, I raised HOC for the front to 2.5" and mulch mowed (back remained at 2"). Friday, I dropped some more PRG seed in thin areas, and made a second drop of urea at roughly 0.5 lbs/M and finished as it began to rain. Mother Nature delivered about 0.74". I was hoping to mow again on Tuesday after work, so I could bring the HOC back down today or tomorrow, but it rained about 0.17". Temps have been a little above normal with highs around 70*-71*, and lows on the 50s to low 60s. It's been drizzly and foggy the last few days and the seed/seedlings are loving it. A lot more seed popped. Also, cool season grasses are continuing to break through the zoysia patches and greenup is better overall (including semi-dormant zoysia), so it looks slightly more even. Here's one profile photo of the zoysia/kbg hellstrip taken before the mow on Thursday:


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## Green

Zoysia is on it's way out officially here, away from the shore.


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> Zoysia is on it's way out officially here, away from the shore.


Yup, now here too. Temps have been 50's-60's, with the occasional 70* day. The zoysia never really recovered from that cold snap.

It's been like Ireland here, with light rain/mist/no real sun for close to two weeks. This has been great for seed; not-so-much for mowing. We had a fair amount of sun after the misty morning, so I had to mow today after work. I haven't been able to mow for close to two weeks (12 days), so I kept HOC the same (2.5"F, 2"B), with a mulch mow. A fair amount of leaves/twigs are down, so that helped reduce the caking on the deck, but I know it's bad, as it still hasn't fully dried out and chunks occasionally fell out of the deck. Deck cleaning/scraping is already on the agenda for this week. I finished in the dark, but used the leaves as an indicator, so I didn't lose my line. Before I went out, I asked my son to look for his USB bicycle headlight, since I will be needing it come Sunday.


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## Chris LI

Rain, rain, rain! Mother Nature hasn't been cooperating with us. Luckily, I had taken the day off and a strong front came through with very high winds this morning to knock a few more leaves down and dry everything out a little. I tried to time it, so as to go out after the peak winds subsided. Wind advisory is until 6 pm. We're behind on color changes, so most of the leaves were still green, or partially green. I mulch mowed front and back at 2.5". I kept the back a little higher with the heavy leaf pack, and we'll see if I change it for the next mow. I scraped the deck afterwards and the clippings from last Tuesday's mow were still soft, so they came off with no problem, using a stray stick that I picked up. I picked up a few small branches in the yard, and called it a day. I'm hoping things dry out a little more, so I can break out the striping kit before heavy leaf accumulation occurs.


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## Babameca

Looks good. I admire your bushes cut. They look like UK military parade hat upside down .


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## Wiley

Looking green and lush! Very nice.


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## Chris LI

@Babameca
Thanks! I try to keep them in tip top shape, and standing at attention. Lol. Funny you mention them. They've been on the list to have a trim before the winter, but Mother Nature hasn't been cooperating with rain on my days off the last few weeks. They're on the top of my "To Do" list for tomorrow, before I break out the mower.

@Wiley
Thanks! The lawn is finally responding to some Fall N apps. It's been difficult getting things to rebound from the summer carnage. Now I just need to get it bit darker like yours. That contrast between the deep green in your lawn and the natural colors of surrounding areas is amazing. I always enjoy checking out your journal.

After taking care of some errands and chores, I broke out the grinder and tuned up the older Gator blade. Since I mostly hand file my blades (and I basically abused this one mulching leaves) I had to take a lot of meat off to restore the proper angle. The angle is not 100% there, but I brought it most of the way back. I need to throw it on the balancer tomorrow before I swap it out.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I took care of a few chores (oil change on truck, etc.) and then trimmed the arborvitaes that needed it most and double cut/mulched leaves. Bearing for the drive unseated about 1/3 of the way through, so I reinserted and got a little extra exercise pushing it the rest of the way...another project on the list.


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## Chris LI

I got some work done today before the beautiful run of weather ends (several days of sunny and low 70's) with the rain on its way. Today peaked at 69*. After reseating the drive bearing on the Snapper, I swapped out the new Gator blade for the sharpened older one and got some leaf mulching (side discharging) done in the backyard @2". About 95% of the maple leaves have dropped, which is about a week later than usual. I attribute this to the warm spell and the trees working extra hard to recover from the TS in August. Grass is still growing and looks like it darkened a bit. Overall, I'm happy with the fall recovery and seeding, but still a little disappointed the zoysia advanced so much this year. Cool season grasses are still continuing to pop up through the zoysia, so I hope they regain some ground, since temps are still good. We still have a little way to go until "The End".


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## Chris LI

The weather has turned and we had the major leaf drop over the last few days. After disassembling the two hanging chairs, I started out on leaf cleanup. For the most part, I haven't blown out the beds in the front, just the small one in front of the steps. The backyard is a different story. Temps are much cooler and I don't want leaves matting in them, so I moderately blew out the backyard beds. Grass is still growing strongly in the front and slowly in the back. Color is darker and I'm very happy with conditions overall (considering Dang zoysia!)

One thing to mention for anyone interested in my technique; all leaves seen were mulched using a Gator blade with side discharge. NO leaves were bagged. No blower was used after mowing to clean up. I just handpicked a few stray leaves/plastics. I wanted to accurately illustrate how well the blade/chute combo works. Soil temps will be dropping, so this was probably the last leaf mulching for the season (at least for the backyard). I will be bagging the rest of the season, since the microbes will go sleepy soon, and I need leaves for vegetable garden mulch. It was too wet for the striping kit, but there were a few that showed up anyway. :lol:

Postimage seems to be down, so I'll post photos soon.


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## Chris LI

Photos from yesterday:

Sequential with free OM collected from the street and it's new home. First, main front.










Next, side front.










Oh, and still at 2.5" HOC.


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## Chris LI

The tree canopy will be very different next year. I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but the neighbors had the large Cherry tree removed on the other side of the fence, opposite my Norway maple, about 2-3 weeks ago. This morning, we had a tree company perform some trimming of large limbs (12"-16"). It was my brother-in-law's "guy", so we got a good deal and I helped loading and chipping. My days of climbing trees with saws are at an end, so it was more than I could have done. We had the Norway maple majorly pruned and a good bit off the Red maple overhanging the house behind the deck. They also trimmed two other Red maples. I would have done a couple of things differently, 
but overall, I was very satisfied. They were very fast, too. An hour and a half and they were basically done; with 15 minutes to pack up their gear and tidy up.

I went in and grabbed a bite to eat and was back out doing more fall cleanup. They did such a nice job cleaning up stray twigs and leaves in the back, so I skipped that area for today. I chose to focus on the front lawn.

Since leaf cover was moderate, I decided to do the "big" blow out of the beds. Temps have been mild, so I decided I could mulch leaves one more time (to some extent). I did my hybrid approach which consists of mulching and then bagging, so I could leave some OM on the lawn and reduce the amount of times dumping the catcher.

I side discharged all of the main front and a lot of the side front before the winds picked up and messed with me, so I put the chute and mulch plug back on to finish mulching, before throwing the bag on. The Snapper makes it very convenient to switch between side discharge and bagger chute, as needed (two knobs and done). The Gator blade works well with all three combos (side discharge, mulch plug w/ chute, and bagger). Anyway, I reduced about 20 catcherfuls to 1.5. The Hi-Vac deck packs the bag full with the Gator, even though it doesn't have as much lift as the bagging blade.

Time to sharpen the bagging blade, because it's bagging from here on out. I need to bag some leaves for the vegetable garden.


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## Chris LI

It was a good lawn day. 2.5 hours to double cut the entire lawn on the slowest speed (after 15 minutes to sharpen the bagging blade and swap it out to replace the old Gator). It's time to get up all the debris and mulched leaves that haven't broken down yet. The lawn/soil have been digesting them very well at this point, but temps are dropping so the microbes are starting "to go sleepy" (I think I stole that one from Adam Sandler).

Anyway, a little leaf blowing to get them up over the curb and out of the beds, and bam! Punch in and go to work with the Hi-Vac. This is where it really shines (along with annhiallating leaves with the Gator on side discharge)! It really is a Beast (I have nicknamed it the "Modern Beast", out of respect for @Butter). Although, the name it shares with the X-Men character gets me thinking of another name in that realm, "Wolverine". I'm a little conflicted though, because I'm a PSU grad  ...a little Big 10 humor, for those folks following.

The point is, I love my Snapper and who really needs a dethatcher when this thing sucks up damn near everything; and that's with a worn blade and a bag that needs to be hosed out (i.e. backwashing a filter). I did blow it out with the DeWalt 20v blower 2/3 the way through.

I figure a couple of Dad jokes might lighten the mood during tough times and the end of the lawn season. Happy Thanksgiving and I hope all stay safe. Here's a few photos for fun:


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## Chris LI

I took some photos from the windows this morning. The first photo does not accurately represent the color. It is slightly darker and much more uniform looking out the window. It is probably due to the reflection off the glass. A few Red oak leaves intruded and there's more staring me down. None of my neighbors maintain their lawns weekly at this point, and none have done their fall cleanups, yet. Most landscapers in my area begin their cleanups around mid-November through mid-December, with stragglers finishing last cleanups just prior to Christmas. With the winds blowing leaves everywhere, I never really "get done".


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## Butter

Gotta love the BEASTs regardless of the age. Long Live Snapper! Have you ever used the Hi Vac blade with the bolt on wings?
That blade will suck a quarter off the driveway!


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## Chris LI

Butter said:


> Gotta love the BEASTs regardless of the age. Long Live Snapper! Have you ever used the Hi Vac blade with the bolt on wings?
> That blade will suck a quarter off the driveway!


Ditto! Yes I have used it! They're called "Air Lifts". You are absolutely correct about the suction! I've used it when scalping for overseeds and renos. That thing is amazing! It packs the bag super tight. It's pretty heavy, so I make sure its balanced, so I don't wipe out the crank. I double check to make sure the throttle is all the way down when I start the engine to reduce wobble on start up. I will sometimes use it in early spring on one of the first mows to get all the winter junk out (embedded twigs, acorns, matted leaves, pine cones/needles, maple tree poly noses, rock salt, gravel, rocks, stumps [just kidding] etc.). I don't use it very often because I don't want to strip the OM out of the soil, but when I need to break out the big guns, I can easily load up for bear.

I loved seeing/hearing Snappers with the aluminum decks when I was a kid (probably the vintage one you have), and always wanted one. I have four types of blades for it and use them for different applications (Air lift, regular bagging blade, Gator (2), and Ninja). I think it is the most versatile mower on the market (I can swap out the bagging chute for the side discharge chute in 45 seconds) and I keep the mulch plug tied to the frame with one of those coated twistie ties to switch between bagging and mulching on the fly. I don't think Toro or Honda (or anyone else) can compete with Snapper's design. There is a compromise with those setups, so Snapper has them beat in both categories and everywhere in between. The inward rolled lip at the bottom of the deck with the chute design really enhance bagging performance, and still mulch very well. Those desiring a dedicated mulching mower could pick the Ninja with the outward lip. I'm sure they would bag well, too with one of the bagging blades. Also, you can't beat the performance, comfort and simplicity of the disc drive design.

Since Briggs & Stratton owns Snapper now, they put the biggest/strongest OHV 190cc engine on them. It is a very powerful engine that blasts through piles of leaves with the Gator blade on side discharge without stalling. They put the same engine with a spin on oil filter on their Commercial Ninja 21" mower.

The vintage Snappers also had cool attachments for dethatching and leaf shredding (before it discharges into the bag). They were called the Thatcherizer and Snapperizer, respectively. I thought about trying to mate up a vintage Thatcherizer attachment to the newer style steel deck, but never got a chance to play around with it. The Snapperizer is really cool too, but the Gator blade became a game changer during leaf season. Snapper really took care of the lawn enthusiasts.

...and yes, if it isn't already obvious, I'm trying to find some potential Snapper converts that might come across this post. We need to get the word out to help them serve the public (sales) so they can compete with the mass marketed junk sold in the big box stores. I just wish that the higher end Snapper models had better marketing/sales exposure (cheaper models have been sold at Walmart, which compete with competing models at other big box stores).

OK, I'm off my soap box now.


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## Butter

You speak the truth! Anyone looking for a new mower should take a good look at the hi vac.
Mine are steel deck models just like yours only 30 years older. Most of the parts interchange.
People seem to think the drive system is kinda goofy but it is so simple and bulletproof and fascinating that it remains unchanged after all these years. Also like you said very versatile. Viva los Snappers!


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## rob13psu

Chris LI said:


> Although, the name it shares with the X-Men character gets me thinking of another name in that realm, "Wolverine". I'm a little conflicted though, because I'm a PSU grad  ...a little Big 10 humor, for those folks following.


I just died a little inside.


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## Chris LI

rob13psu said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Although, the name it shares with the X-Men character gets me thinking of another name in that realm, "Wolverine". I'm a little conflicted though, because I'm a PSU grad  ...a little Big 10 humor, for those folks following.
> 
> 
> 
> I just died a little inside.
Click to expand...

I figured that I might get a response of that nature. Surely, that was in jest. I've not lost my loyalty, but I haven't been quite the same since JoePa died.


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## Chris LI

Here's a couple of updates:

Saturday, I had some time to give the Snapper some TLC. She got a much needed oil change and a good cleaning with a Simple Green wipe down with an old sock and rinse with the hose. I also hosed out the bag to allow for better suction, and hung it out to dry. The recoil has been making a noise, probably from dust buildup, so I pulled it off and lubed with WD-40. Next step will be to take it apart, but rewinding the spring on recoils is always a PITA for me at least (I'm thinking of my JD 14SB). Since the original Snapper bagging blade is worn from use with the sandy soil cutting the edge of the high lift wing. I opted for the Oregon version P/N 99-103, hoping it might be thicker than the Snapper OEM blade, like the 99-107. That one has the 3 bolt holes for the "Air Lifts", in case anyone is interested.

While I was in maintenance mode, I prepped and started the snowblower.

Yesterday, I only had a little time before dark to mow and suck up a bunch of leaves. I 
fought the wind a little, but got the leaves blown up off the curbline. Since the grass is still growing, I stuck with 2.5" HOC. I took about an inch off the front and very little, if any in the back. I went into "landscaper mode" with the drive set at a brisk pace and double cut all of the front and double cut some of the back. Even with the worn blade (less lift), 3/4 travel speed, and fighting the wind, the mower picked 99% of the leaves on the first pass, and about 99.99% on the perpendicular pass. The rinsed out bag really helped (another tip for those with bagging issues). I finished the front in the dark, but my baseball cap with LEDs on the brim did the trick. Lights cover most of the backyard, so it was no trouble to do that in the dark with the help of the LED cap.

No photos with finishing in the dark, but everything looked good this morning and I'm happy overall. We haven't been hit yet with the bitter cold many have, but growth will slow rapidly with the temp drops which started last night. Low was 37* and today's high was 47*. We might be a little warmer over the next few days. Monday's rain totaled about an inch, with more rain with driving winds predicted for Saturday. Monday's 60 mph winds out of the SSE took down most of the stray oak leaves, but a few always hold on until spring when the new buds push them out.

Depending on the weather, my next and possibly last actual "cut" might be Sunday. I want to lower to 2" for the winter. We'll see.


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## Chris LI

It rained most of the day yesterday, as predicted. Surprisingly, the winds didn't blow a lot of leaves in the yard. They were out of the north and the heavy winds last Monday took most of the remaining oak leaves down. I decided to work on getting Xmas lights up instead of mowing. The front is still showing a little growth, but I think the back is done. Since I didn't get to snap any photos last Tuesday, here are some from today. I think the kbg closed up a little more on the zoysia infested areas, so I'm feeling a little better about the situation. For 5 days later, I think it looks pretty good. FYI-I got a new phone, so the photos may look a little different. I can capture a wider shot with the settings on this phone.


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## M32075

Did you do a final nitrogen drop? I have a bag of Scott's winter in the garage I haven't dropped it yet not sure if I will.


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## Chris LI

M32075 said:


> Did you do a final nitrogen drop? I have a bag of Scott's winter in the garage I haven't dropped it yet not sure if I will.


No, and I'm on the fence, like you are. Temps have been inconsistent. We went as low as 29* Thursday night and back up to 55* yesterday. Today hit 57* and it's 53* now. I haven't been able to check topgrowth, but I think it's still growing slowly, so it's probably too early to make the drop. We should see the temps turn for the season this week, with snow predicted mid to late week. I might mow tomorrow and survey the situation. I'm leaning towards not making a drop.

As far as I recall, the Scotts Winterizer has some slow release N, so I wouldn't use it now. Urea 46-0-0 or ammonium sulfate 21-0-0 is a better option, since they are all fast release N, which is what is needed as a "true winterizer". The Scotts product probably has some K which can contribute to snow mold. Late season apps of K are not suggested for that reason. I would save it for late summer/early fall.


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## M32075

Thanks Chris I think it's a wrap for the season. I did have some snow mold last spring without adding the K so I'll let it ride. Significant snow this coming week possible ,time to prime the snowblower


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## Chris LI

It hit 62* today with sun. I was jonesing to mow, but I had some other outdoor tasks to do. The lawn is still growing and I may have missed the boat for one last mow, with a Nor'easter predicted for this week. I captured a lawn photo which includes the completion of a seasonal project (maybe). It was nice to work with my son and have fun without freezing our butts off.

Yeah, I know that I need to fix the Bumble's scarf. It tends to ride up when he deflates.


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## Chris LI

I thought my last post would be the last of the season, since we had a snowstorm. However, with the warm temps I found that someone drove on the lawn next to the RV right before the snow covered it. I took a broom and fluffed up the matted grass before the big freeze tomorrow night.

@Jeff_MI84
This relates directly to your saga. Yup, I'm feeling the frustrations again. You can't make this up. Luckily, I had to go retrieve the garbage can after today's pickup and discovered it. Impact should be minimal, but could have been a lot worse if the matted turf froze.


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## Jeff_MI84

Chris LI said:


> I thought my last post would be the last of the season, since we had a snowstorm. However, with the warm temps I found that someone drove on the lawn next to the RV right before the snow covered it. I took a broom and fluffed up the matted grass before the big freeze tomorrow night.
> 
> @Jeff_MI84
> This relates directly to your saga. Yup, I'm feeling the frustrations again. You can't make this up. Luckily, I had to go retrieve the garbage can after today's pickup and discovered it. Impact should be minimal, but could have been a lot worse if the matted turf froze.


😢


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## M32075

Checking up on you hopefully all is good. Any updates on the lawn this early spring?


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## Butter

@M32075 I've also been wondering about @Chris LI I hope all is well. Has anyone heard from him?


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## M32075

He's been MIA I'm somewhat concerned. It could be his busy time at work but he still chimes in on his journal or giving some great advice.


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## Chris LI

@M32075 
@Butter 
Hi Guys,

Thanks for checking in. As mentioned, work and life have had me preoccupied, so I have been MIA for awhile. Now that spring has sprung, I'm getting back into it. I'm working on going back through various threads and notifications to respond to folks' posts. I appreciate your concern...it just goes to show that TLF is an extended family!


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## Chris LI

*******
*Start of 2021 Journal*

Mid March
I pruned the Crape/Crate Myrtles in the front yard before spring growth started. It was a bigger job this year because I missed the window last year with working lots of extra time during the beginning of the pandemic. Lots of extra bits needed to be trimmed, which resulted in more time consumed with cutting and picking additional material up off the lawn. I am relieved that it's done. I also started picking up twigs throughout the remainder of the yard and scoped out indentations from logs/branches for repair from the late season tree work.

Late March-Early April
Raked up remaining twigs from the Crape/Crate pruning job and lawn thatch (especially the Zoysia :evil with a metal spring/fan rake...simple, yet effective. A Groundskeeper II rake is on the wish list.

Wednesday 4/7
Fired up the string trimmer and mower, and went to town. The late fall oil change on the mower allowed me to put gas in her and go! I added some fresh gas and the Snapper started right up. After string trimming/edging the front only, I bag mowed at 2" withthe bagging blade. Front was double cut; back was only partially double cut, mainly to get material up, otherwise it would have been a charity mow for the backyard. I'm holding off a mow or two before I put the new bagging blade on, with all the sticks that will be sucked up when I blow out the beds and do the spring cleanup.

Yesterday
I raked out the beds under the myrtles, to get the remainder of the prunings, leaves, debris, etc. and to knock down the lily stalks. More work coming for the Snapper. Then, I mixed up a gallon of Triclopyr Ester with surfactant and sprayed some Chickweed and Clover. I still have some more areas to hit and need to get PreM down very soon.


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## M32075

Happy to see you back in the game let the fun begin. I'll be following


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## Butter

Great to hear from you Chris! I'm glad all is good.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I did the big blowout of the beds, string trimned/edged, and double cut the front with mostly single cut in the backyard, bagging at 2". The hellstrip shows the stark contrast between the Zoysia and kbg (mostly Bewitched). It's still early in the season so the front is patchy, especially with the Zoysia sticking its tongue out at me. The back is even slower, as usual with the northern exposure. Hopefully, the significant tree pruning over the winter will help.

With some time to spare, a trip to HD to buy 21 bags of mulch occurred, with some weeding and deposit of said bags, the front beds look a little better. I still have more weeding to do and another round of mulch, but I'm off to a decent start.

One thing to mention...just as the ever shrinking tuna can, the mfgrs downsized the bags from 2 cu ft, to 1.5 cu ft., so the $1.98 sale isn't as good as it seems. I usually go through 24 bags of the old larger size, so I'll need a dozen or so more. I didn't go anywhere near HD last year, so I didn't buy any mulch. The downsizing could have occurred then, but this is the first I have noticed. Also, with skipping a year, mine is 99% broken down, so I will need more than usual.


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## Wiley

@Chris LI glad to see you posting. Lawn is looking good to start the season!


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## M32075

Glad to see you back that is a full days work you accomplished. Lawn looking good your hell strip is my whole backyard. I been saying for 10 years I need to get rid of the zoysia but come July I talk myself out of it.


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## Butter

Looking good Chris!


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## Chris LI

M32075 said:


> Glad to see you back that is a full days work you accomplished. Lawn looking good your hell strip is my whole backyard. I been saying for 10 years I need to get rid of the zoysia but come July I talk myself out of it.


Thanks for the welcome back. Work and life has been taking up my time, but I'm trying to get back into the swing. I'm still behind checking out everyone's journals.

Ditto on the Zoysia conundrum! I just don't have the time for a proper reno, and the Zoysia helps the hellstrip to not fry in early-mid August...maybe one day.


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## Babameca

Glad to see you back brother. I still puzzled how your flat head bushes survive the winter snow untouched...:?: :dunno:


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## gm560

Looks great!


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## Chris LI

Babameca said:


> Glad to see you back brother. I still puzzled how your flat head bushes survive the winter snow untouched...:?: :dunno:


Thank you! Glad to be back! Xmas lights wrapped around them are the trick, until snow season is over. I got lucky the last couple of years with a semi-wrap with the lights. Also, I use the philosophy of maintaining a frequent trim to promote density like we do with mowing grass. Lol. Seriously, 2x per year helps. If I had time, I would trim them more often than that, and wrap them with burlap. I hope the info helps anyone reading this post.

Funny you bring them up; I've been looking at them, and they need a little trim now, but I had to weed and get mulch down with that evil Chickweed taking over. :evil:


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## Chris LI

gm560 said:


> Looks great!


Thank you! I was trying to catch up on other's journals and I checked out yours last night with your poa battles right before bedtime, so I'll post over there now.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I spent a few hours weeding and picking up more mulch. Used 13 out of 15 bags, and discovered they skimped on the dye from the first batch, sinceit dried out. I might have to break out my color restoring spray. I really enjoyed using a weeder tool I picked up a few years ago for my MIL. She didn't like it, so I'm putting it to good use. The tip has a spade about 3/4 the size of your thumb. It helped to get a lot of Chickweed up, without damaging nearby desirable plants...much better than the standard cultivators. I was able to use the hook to get some weeds with taproots, too.


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## Chris LI

I had to go out of town last week so I missed a mow (or two). 15 days had the front overgrown, so I raised HOC to 2.5" for the front and kept it at 2" for the back with bag on the mower. Before the mow, I swapped out the original OEM bagging blade for the Oregon replacement bagging blade 99-103. It's thicker and more robust. Vacuum is better because the end of the old blade wore away from the sandy soil (notched). I did some weeding in the lawn before and during the mow. I did some trimming/edging before the mow and finished just in time to beat the rain. No photos. The lawn looks ugly with Chickweed, Poa A and T, and some sections even uglier with Chickweed checking out from the Triclopyr app.


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## Chris LI

I've been busy, so only one mow this week on a 7 day interval.

Yesterday, string trimmed, edged and bag mowed at 2" front and back. Violated 1/3 rule for 90% of the front, since I dropped it back down from 2.5". However, it was worth it to pick up many more Poa A seedheads and other weeds. Chickweed hit with Triclopyr is fading away, and less ugly. I still need to do more spraying and get fert down. No fert applied in 2021, yet. Here's a few photos from yesterday. The last photo was accidental, but it captured the hellstrip, so I figured why not.


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## DiabeticKripple

Looking good early in the season!


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## Chris LI

@DiabeticKripple Thank you! The lawn is hungry, but I'm correcting that situation.

Friday evening, I made my first fertilizer drop of the season. It's rare for me to not drop anything in April, but it happened this year. The Fall N blitz carried me up to last week, but color started going off. The difference around the bird feeder was obvious, with stray OM/N from seed husks, etc. nourishing the lawn.

I dropped 1 lb. of AS per 1000 sq ft (0.21 lbs N). Rain did not come as expected in measurable amounts as expected on Friday night/ Saturday, but we received 0.54" last night. Hopefully, color will pop soon.


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## Green

I get the need for fertilizer. I need to fertilize one of these days as well. All I've done so far is one full app of Potassium this Spring. The high-activity methylene urea and organics and leftover N/carbohydrates from the blitz from last Fall and the Spring N-liberation have all started dwindling down now. I'll be doing final updates to my winterizing experiment, and then dropping organic N.

As far as the Zoysia in the main lawn, if you don't want it there, I've heard that late Summer Topramezone may be more effective than Tenacity. You can get one rtu jug for about 25 bucks as Roundup Crabgrass Destroyer from Ace Hardware if you're interested.


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> I get the need for fertilizer. I need to fertilize one of these days as well. All I've done so far is one full app of Potassium this Spring. The high-activity methylene urea and organics and leftover N/carbohydrates from the blitz from last Fall and the Spring N-liberation have all started dwindling down now. I'll be doing final updates to my winterizing experiment, and then dropping organic N.
> 
> As far as the Zoysia in the main lawn, if you don't want it there, I've heard that late Summer Topramezone may be more effective than Tenacity. You can get one rtu jug for about 25 bucks as Roundup Crabgrass Destroyer from Ace Hardware if you're interested.


Thank you! I will definitely keep this in mind for the Zoysia.

I noticed the AS spoonfeed gave a nice gentle 'bump' in color and turf quality this morning, without too much growth. Now, I just need to get it cut. Our temps finally hit over 70*, which we haven't seen in weeks (74* today). Things should start to really wake up. Hopefully, you'll see some improvements, too.


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## Chris LI

I was dying to get outside to work on the yard today, on my day off, but chores and a call from work today popped up. However, I pulled the new bagging blade off and gave it its first sharpening with my "Handy File", so I'm ready for tomorrow.

I did some scouting and decided to bag at 2" (possibly last time). The elite kbgs are still slow to catch up in growth, but their color came in nicely. We'll see if I reconsider by tomorrow.


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## Chris LI

I got some good yard time in today. :banana:

I broke out the hedge trimmer attachment for my Echo PAS and gave the Golden Arborvitae and Cedars a trim. Then I went to town on the vines and briars encroaching from the town property.

I needed to stay ahead of everything because in about two weeks I may not have any days off, due to work. That is generally my plan each season; get the lawn and yard in shape in Spring because Summer is nuts at work; keep it alive during the Summer; and resurrect it after Labor Day and enjoy the Fall.

Trim, edge, blow and bag mow front and back at 2". I figured that I would break out the striping roller, since everything is very dense and I might not get a chance to for a fee weeks.

Today was probably the last time I mowed the front at 2". I violated the 1/3 rule a little more than I thought I would and lost some color. The good news is that the AS had a little kick, so it should bounce back. Temps are on the rise. Last night was 47*, probably the last night we will see in the 40's for awhile. Today we peaked at 77*, and its trending to be on the 70's with mid 50's for the lows this week.

I squeezed in a spray app around sunset. It was a tank mix of N-Ext Compaction Cure at max rate and SLS 15-0-15 (6 oz Rgs/9 oz Air-8/4 oz 15-0-15 per gallon, per 1000, respectively).

Steak is on the grill now.


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## Green

Looks good. I was thinking the same looking at the weather the other day...mostly 50s at night going forward. Means I would like to get my biofungicide going. If I get to spray tomorrow, I might just talk mix a whole bunch of stuff together due to limited time. I don't like to mix biofungicide with surfactants, but when you're limited on time, you have to do what you have to do.


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## Chris LI

@Green 
Thanks! Today was "water it in" day after work. I fired up the DIY irrigation system and got 3 out of 4 zones going, and hand watered the NG zone in the back. The front got extra water with the southern exposure and extra dry conditions. Relative humidity was in the low 30% range today. Foliar app made the color pop overnight.


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## Scagfreedom48z+

Chris LI said:


> I got some good yard time in today. :banana:
> 
> I broke out the hedge trimmer attachment for my Echo PAS and gave the Golden Arborvitae and Cedars a trim. Then I went to town on the vines and briars encroaching from the town property.
> 
> I needed to stay ahead of everything because in about two weeks I may not have any days off, due to work. That is generally my plan each season; get the lawn and yard in shape in Spring because Summer is nuts at work; keep it alive during the Summer; and resurrect it after Labor Day and enjoy the Fall.
> 
> Trim, edge, blow and bag mow front and back at 2". I figured that I would break out the striping roller, since everything is very dense and I might not get a chance to for a fee weeks.
> 
> Today was probably the last time I mowed the front at 2". I violated the 1/3 rule a little more than I thought I would and lost some color. The good news is that the AS had a little kick, so it should bounce back. Temps are on the rise. Last night was 47*, probably the last night we will see in the 40's for awhile. Today we peaked at 77*, and its trending to be on the 70's with mid 50's for the lows this week.
> 
> I squeezed in a spray app around sunset. It was a tank mix of N-Ext Compaction Cure at max rate and SLS 15-0-15 (6 oz Rgs/9 oz Air-8/4 oz 15-0-15 per gallon, per 1000, respectively).
> 
> Steak is on the grill now.


I've skimmed through your page. I've been overseeing the last couple of years with 100% tttf. I see that you have a 50/50 mix of prg&tttf. How do you like it? Do you struggle with the prg once it gets into the dead of summer? I'm thinking of maybe adding a little prg with tttf in this years overseed. I'm not sold on it yet since the winter and summers here in mass are harsh. Just trying to get a feel for it.


----------



## Chris LI

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've skimmed through your page. I've been overseeing the last couple of years with 100% tttf. I see that you have a 50/50 mix of prg&tttf. How do you like it? Do you struggle with the prg once it gets into the dead of summer? I'm thinking of maybe adding a little prg with tttf in this years overseed. I'm not sold on it yet since the winter and summers here in mass are harsh. Just trying to get a feel for it.
Click to expand...

These photos depict the area I renovated several years ago.

Here is the story as best as I can recall...

The area was infested with Zoysia, which slowly took over over several years. I tried overseeding it with Watersaver RTF from Barenbrug a few times between ~2009-13 to try to get it to outcompete the Zoysia. I didn't really see it spread and the Zoysia came back.

Around 2014-15, I decided to renovate the area. Work is nuts in the summer and gradually slows, so renos can be risky. I went for it on my 2 days off, right after Labor Day. One blanket app of glyphosate on the first day and seed down the next day (no time to spray in early August with fallowing and a reapplication). Used a drum peat moss spreader (which I highly recommend), but ran short on time and energy, so I skipped Tenacity, which was a mistake. Seed was 3-way TTTF shade blend from SSS. Other than weed competition, it was a reasonable success, with decent coverage.

The following year, I spot seeded in the Spring and most of it survived the summer. I did lose some to fungus ~20%. While I loved the uniformity of the TTTF, I should have thrown in some of my Bewitched to make it a 90/10 or 80/20 TTTF/KBG. That Fall, and each Fall after for a few years, I overseeded with the same shady blend (or its replacement with updated cultivars) along with kbg.

There were a couple of areas that I had difficulty getting anything to establish, so I made a tough decision to add PRG to the mix (not a PRG fan), with the hopes of the quick germination to hold everything down until the TTTF and KBG came in. I used a quality Tri-Rye blend from a really good local turf supply. 
These spots are generally the far right front corner by the sidewalk, the far back right corner on the incline, and the other side of the RV by the trees (high traffic/no DIY irrigation).

Sorry for the drawn out response to this point, but I think you need the background for a proper perspective.

I wouldn't call the area a 50/50 mix of TTTF and PRG, but there is definitely some PRG with the TTTF/KBG.

To answer your question about struggling in the Summer, yes it does. The other side of the RV basically fried, so I reseeded last Fall (looks good again). I will be raising HOC earlier this year to try to address the issue.. 
However, I see PRG as a good tool for aiding establishment of the other turfgrasses. It will also help to thicken the thin areas.

I think you should consider trying PRG at some point, but suggest getting some KBG into your TTTF lawn first, for a couple of reasons:

1. Even though KBG is difficult to overseed in general, the repairability of KBG in a TTTF lawn is very important (not to mention beautiful color). Even though TTTF is considered more drought tolerant than KBG, it takes waaay longer to bring it back from the brink of dormancy, and the extra watering causes Brown Patch in the TTTF, from my experience. I don't use fungicides, so other's experiences may be better. I was able to get a good amount of KBG into the TTTF with a harsh scalping (with bagging) and a slit seeder or peat moss cap. Once established, I would favor the KBG with lower HOC and more frequent mowing (with heavier fertilizer), to promote KBG spreading.

2. PRG is alleopathic (like FF), which makes it harder for other grasses to be seeded and compete with it. I only use it as a last resort, when nothing else is working. However, after struggling to get KBG to establish and survive, it is gratifying to throw down PRG and have instant lawn. I see it as a window punch that an EMT, Law Enforcement Officer, or Firefighter has on their tool belt. You don't ever want to use it, but if you need to break a window to get someone out of a car, you don't hesitate.

If you don't plan on trying to integrate KBG into your TTTF, I would go for it with the PRG. If it dies, so what. Seed it again.

I would love to do a 100% KBG reno, and would consider overseeding it with PRG, if the reno failed, so I would have something for the Summer. I can be a bit Darwinistic with grass, so whatever lives, so be it. I once made a custom blend of 7 different KBG cultivars to integrate it into my main front lawn...not necessarily a choice for uniformity, but I got more KBG into the lawn.

I hope this helps.


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday, I watered the front heavily, with the strategy of getting better penetration. The soaking/softening from the initial watering the day before, should have paved the way. No water today, but I'll evaluate again tomorrow.


----------



## Scagfreedom48z+

Chris LI said:


> Scagfreedom48z+ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've skimmed through your page. I've been overseeing the last couple of years with 100% tttf. I see that you have a 50/50 mix of prg&tttf. How do you like it? Do you struggle with the prg once it gets into the dead of summer? I'm thinking of maybe adding a little prg with tttf in this years overseed. I'm not sold on it yet since the winter and summers here in mass are harsh. Just trying to get a feel for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These photos depict the area I renovated several years ago.
> 
> Here is the story as best as I can recall...
> 
> The area was infested with Zoysia, which slowly took over over several years. I tried overseeding it with Watersaver RTF from Barenbrug a few times between ~2009-13 to try to get it to outcompete the Zoysia. I didn't really see it spread and the Zoysia came back.
> 
> Around 2014-15, I decided to renovate the area. Work is nuts in the summer and gradually slows, so renos can be risky. I went for it on my 2 days off, right after Labor Day. One blanket app of glyphosate on the first day and seed down the next day (no time to spray in early August with fallowing and a reapplication). Used a drum peat moss spreader (which I highly recommend), but ran short on time and energy, so I skipped Tenacity, which was a mistake. Seed was 3-way TTTF shade blend from SSS. Other than weed competition, it was a reasonable success, with decent coverage.
> 
> The following year, I spot seeded in the Spring and most of it survived the summer. I did lose some to fungus ~20%. While I loved the uniformity of the TTTF, I should have thrown in some of my Bewitched to make it a 90/10 or 80/20 TTTF/KBG. That Fall, and each Fall after for a few years, I overseeded with the same shady blend (or its replacement with updated cultivars) along with kbg.
> 
> There were a couple of areas that I had difficulty getting anything to establish, so I made a tough decision to add PRG to the mix (not a PRG fan), with the hopes of the quick germination to hold everything down until the TTTF and KBG came in. I used a quality Tri-Rye blend from a really good local turf supply.
> These spots are generally the far right front corner by the sidewalk, the far back right corner on the incline, and the other side of the RV by the trees (high traffic/no DIY irrigation).
> 
> Sorry for the drawn out response to this point, but I think you need the background for a proper perspective.
> 
> I wouldn't call the area a 50/50 mix of TTTF and PRG, but there is definitely some PRG with the TTTF/KBG.
> 
> To answer your question about struggling in the Summer, yes it does. The other side of the RV basically fried, so I reseeded last Fall (looks good again). I will be raising HOC earlier this year to try to address the issue..
> However, I see PRG as a good tool for aiding establishment of the other turfgrasses. It will also help to thicken the thin areas.
> 
> I think you should consider trying PRG at some point, but suggest getting some KBG into your TTTF lawn first, for a couple of reasons:
> 
> 1. Even though KBG is difficult to overseed in general, the repairability of KBG in a TTTF lawn is very important (not to mention beautiful color). Even though TTTF is considered more drought tolerant than KBG, it takes waaay longer to bring it back from the brink of dormancy, and the extra watering causes Brown Patch in the TTTF, from my experience. I don't use fungicides, so other's experiences may be better. I was able to get a good amount of KBG into the TTTF with a harsh scalping (with bagging) and a slit seeder or peat moss cap. Once established, I would favor the KBG with lower HOC and more frequent mowing (with heavier fertilizer), to promote KBG spreading.
> 
> 2. PRG is alleopathic (like FF), which makes it harder for other grasses to be seeded and compete with it. I only use it as a last resort, when nothing else is working. However, after struggling to get KBG to establish and survive, it is gratifying to throw down PRG and have instant lawn. I see it as a window punch that an EMT, Law Enforcement Officer, or Firefighter has on their tool belt. You don't ever want to use it, but if you need to break a window to get someone out of a car, you don't hesitate.
> 
> If you don't plan on trying to integrate KBG into your TTTF, I would go for it with the PRG. If it dies, so what. Seed it again.
> 
> I would love to do a 100% KBG reno, and would consider overseeding it with PRG, if the reno failed, so I would have something for the Summer. I can be a bit Darwinistic with grass, so whatever lives, so be it. I once made a custom blend of 7 different KBG cultivars to integrate it into my main front lawn...not necessarily a choice for uniformity, but I got more KBG into the lawn.
> 
> I hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Wow Chris! I really do appreciate you taking the time to basically spell out your journey. That was extremely help and I again thank you for doing that. I have extra KBG left from 2019 that I didn't use up entirely. I'm going to stick with using tttf and using up the rest of the kbg that I still have, in hopes that it germinates and survives, this upcoming fall overseed.


----------



## Chris LI

@Scagfreedom48z+ You're welcome, and good luck! I'll be following.


----------



## Harts

Colour, density and edging looks great!


----------



## Chris LI

@Harts 
Thank you! The AS drop on 5/7 and foliar app of 15-0-15 on 5/14 definitely helped. I'm digging the foliar apps! Color really popped after the spray.


----------



## Chris LI

I'm seeing the dry conditions and temps rising this week, as many in the tri-state area are experiencing, so I hit it hard with water again (about 1/2" in front; 1/4"+ in back). I'm hoping to get ahead of the heat and train the roots to search deeper for water. Also, this should push the Rgs and Air-8 deeper into the root zone. Color really darkened up in the back, but front isn't quite there yet. Kbg in the back has that nice dark blue-green color. Now, I need to attack more weeds.


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday, I decided to mow one last time at 2" (for the front; back to stay mostly at 2"). I did because I may not be able to mow for almost 2 weeks, due to work. Also, we are not getting the scorching near the coast, as my of you are experiencing. I held off on granular N, so as to not push too much growth without being able to mow.

I did the usual trim/edge, blow, bag mow, I do in the spring. Cherry blossoms are gone, but red oak seed strings are everywhere.

I would rather have waited until next week for another round of sprays, but I may not have time, so I had to get them down. I did a tank mix of:

Rgs 6 oz
Air-8 9 oz
15-0-15 4 oz
Southern Ag iron 4 oz
(Per gallon/ 1000)

I'm watering it in now.


----------



## Chris LI

Work commitments have gotten the best of me, so today I had my first full day off in just over two weeks. I'm behind the 8 ball again, but made the best of it. I haven't mowed in 15 days. @Butter. I'm frustrated like you with lack of progress, but we'll get there.

The plan was to double cut the front, first at 3", then at 2.5" with bagging and drop/spray some fert, but Mother Nature had different ideas.

The Good:
I string trimmed and edged. Then, I mowed the front once in landscaper mode, at 3" (and it didn't look too bad). Landscaper mode is full throttle in top gear. It's the first time I mowed at top speed with the Snapper. Lines weren't so good, but it came out better than I thought, and I didn't get zapped. Win-win.

The Bad:
That's all that I got done. Lightning and the sky opened up. No double cut and no mow in the backyard. Also, the lawn is starving.

The Ugly:
I need to hit some clover and other weeds ASAP. My Chapin drift shield came in, but I haven't had the chance to use it yet.

I wasn't going to post any photos, but it looks better than I thought it would.


----------



## M32075

Chris LI said:


> Scagfreedom48z+ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've skimmed through your page. I've been overseeing the last couple of years with 100% tttf. I see that you have a 50/50 mix of prg&tttf. How do you like it? Do you struggle with the prg once it gets into the dead of summer? I'm thinking of maybe adding a little prg with tttf in this years overseed. I'm not sold on it yet since the winter and summers here in mass are harsh. Just trying to get a feel for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These photos depict the area I renovated several years ago.
> 
> Here is the story as best as I can recall...
> 
> The area was infested with Zoysia, which slowly took over over several years. I tried overseeding it with Watersaver RTF from Barenbrug a few times between ~2009-13 to try to get it to outcompete the Zoysia. I didn't really see it spread and the Zoysia came back.
> 
> Around 2014-15, I decided to renovate the area. Work is nuts in the summer and gradually slows, so renos can be risky. I went for it on my 2 days off, right after Labor Day. One blanket app of glyphosate on the first day and seed down the next day (no time to spray in early August with fallowing and a reapplication). Used a drum peat moss spreader (which I highly recommend), but ran short on time and energy, so I skipped Tenacity, which was a mistake. Seed was 3-way TTTF shade blend from SSS. Other than weed competition, it was a reasonable success, with decent coverage.
> 
> The following year, I spot seeded in the Spring and most of it survived the summer. I did lose some to fungus ~20%. While I loved the uniformity of the TTTF, I should have thrown in some of my Bewitched to make it a 90/10 or 80/20 TTTF/KBG. That Fall, and each Fall after for a few years, I overseeded with the same shady blend (or its replacement with updated cultivars) along with kbg.
> 
> There were a couple of areas that I had difficulty getting anything to establish, so I made a tough decision to add PRG to the mix (not a PRG fan), with the hopes of the quick germination to hold everything down until the TTTF and KBG came in. I used a quality Tri-Rye blend from a really good local turf supply.
> These spots are generally the far right front corner by the sidewalk, the far back right corner on the incline, and the other side of the RV by the trees (high traffic/no DIY irrigation).
> 
> Sorry for the drawn out response to this point, but I think you need the background for a proper perspective.
> 
> I wouldn't call the area a 50/50 mix of TTTF and PRG, but there is definitely some PRG with the TTTF/KBG.
> 
> To answer your question about struggling in the Summer, yes it does. The other side of the RV basically fried, so I reseeded last Fall (looks good again). I will be raising HOC earlier this year to try to address the issue..
> However, I see PRG as a good tool for aiding establishment of the other turfgrasses. It will also help to thicken the thin areas.
> 
> I think you should consider trying PRG at some point, but suggest getting some KBG into your TTTF lawn first, for a couple of reasons:
> 
> 1. Even though KBG is difficult to overseed in general, the repairability of KBG in a TTTF lawn is very important (not to mention beautiful color). Even though TTTF is considered more drought tolerant than KBG, it takes waaay longer to bring it back from the brink of dormancy, and the extra watering causes Brown Patch in the TTTF, from my experience. I don't use fungicides, so other's experiences may be better. I was able to get a good amount of KBG into the TTTF with a harsh scalping (with bagging) and a slit seeder or peat moss cap. Once established, I would favor the KBG with lower HOC and more frequent mowing (with heavier fertilizer), to promote KBG spreading.
> 
> 2. PRG is alleopathic (like FF), which makes it harder for other grasses to be seeded and compete with it. I only use it as a last resort, when nothing else is working. However, after struggling to get KBG to establish and survive, it is gratifying to throw down PRG and have instant lawn. I see it as a window punch that an EMT, Law Enforcement Officer, or Firefighter has on their tool belt. You don't ever want to use it, but if you need to break a window to get someone out of a car, you don't hesitate.
> 
> If you don't plan on trying to integrate KBG into your TTTF, I would go for it with the PRG. If it dies, so what. Seed it again.
> 
> I would love to do a 100% KBG reno, and would consider overseeding it with PRG, if the reno failed, so I would have something for the Summer. I can be a bit Darwinistic with grass, so whatever lives, so be it. I once made a custom blend of 7 different KBG cultivars to integrate it into my main front lawn...not necessarily a choice for uniformity, but I got more KBG into the lawn.
> 
> I hope this helps.
Click to expand...

A spot on fantastic write up thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience


----------



## Chris LI

@M32075 
Thanks! I hope others can benefit from my wins/losses on the battlefield, so to speak.

Before work today, I had time to finish the backyard mow. It was wet, but manageable, so I bagged at 2.5".


----------



## Butter

Looks good! I suppose you are correct, we'll get there.


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday, I string trimmed, edged and one more bag mow. I wanted to switch over to mulching, but I needed to get the HOC back down to 2.5" in the front, and the clover is flowering (not to mention Poa A seedheads), so I had to bag mow. I kept the backyard at 2.5". It's very thick and gave the Snapper with strong 8.75 Tq Briggs motor a workout (which is unusual). I'm sure the blade is as sharp as a butter knife, so I need to swap/sharpen it. 
The recent apps are really helping, and I am really digging the results from the tank mixes. Heavy rains have worked the combo (especially root stimulants) into the soil, so the turf looks strong, without too much topgrowth. I really only violated the 1/3 rule in the front, where I reduced HOC from 3" to 2.5" on a 6-day interval. It also darkened up a little. Weed control and some granular fert is next on the agenda.

At nighttime, I watered about .5"-.75" in three of the four zones. It was very warm this week and needed some.

I'm still playing catch up on looking at members' journals. There's a lot of good progress going on nowadays.


----------



## Chris LI

I did a little spot watering and cut some invading Sumac. That's all I really got done lawn wise.

Finally, I planted 5 of 7 tomatoes in their Ft. Knox wrapped cages wrapped with hardware cloth. I still need to pick up the remaining two plants. For veggies, I use only organic products, so I mixed in Espoma Bio-Tone 4-3-3 and Sustane concentrated compost 2-6-3 and watered it in with some GS Plant Foods liquid kelp. I'm way behind this year, but will have more sun on the garden with the winter tree pruning.


----------



## Green

Why do the clover flowers reinforce your decision to bag?


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Why do the clover flowers reinforce your decision to bag?


Even though clover spreads strongly through stolons, I try to reduce the seed bank by bagging the flowers...anything to help keep it in check. I need to get some Triclopyr down ASAP, before it gets too hot.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do the clover flowers reinforce your decision to bag?
> 
> 
> 
> Even though clover spreads strongly through stolons, I try to reduce the seed bank by bagging the flowers...anything to help keep it in check. I need to get some Triclopyr down ASAP, before it gets too hot.
Click to expand...

Do the flowers already contain seed??


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do the clover flowers reinforce your decision to bag?
> 
> 
> 
> Even though clover spreads strongly through stolons, I try to reduce the seed bank by bagging the flowers...anything to help keep it in check. I need to get some Triclopyr down ASAP, before it gets too hot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do the flowers already contain seed??
Click to expand...

I believe so, but am not 100% sure it is mature enough to be viable during the flowering stage. However, I don't want to take any chances.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even though clover spreads strongly through stolons, I try to reduce the seed bank by bagging the flowers...anything to help keep it in check. I need to get some Triclopyr down ASAP, before it gets too hot.
> 
> 
> 
> Do the flowers already contain seed??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe so, but am not 100% sure it is mature enough to be viable during the flowering stage. However, I don't want to take any chances.
Click to expand...

Interesting... https://homeguides.sfgate.com/collect-clover-seed-65796.html


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do the flowers already contain seed??
> 
> 
> 
> I believe so, but am not 100% sure it is mature enough to be viable during the flowering stage. However, I don't want to take any chances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting... https://homeguides.sfgate.com/collect-clover-seed-65796.html
Click to expand...

Thanks! Whew! I was hoping they wouldn't be viable at the flowering stage, but worried that I might spread the seed if I mulched the clippings.


----------



## Chris LI

So, I had a "find" today at the garden center, after striking out looking for a Cherokee Purple heirloom tomato (got a Black Krim and Orange something or other heirloom).

They stock N-Ext Products, and sell single gallons as opposed to having to buy the 4-Pack!

I've been wanting to add a fertilizer product to the Rgs and Air-8. I was looking at a few in the line and decided on Microgreene 0-0-2, for the micros, Fe and usual HA/Kelp goodies. It was a good price, too.

I got my mow and trimming/edging done today, but it was a bit disjointed. My brother-in-law came over to replace the floor pans in the storage area of the RV, so I had to work around him and missed mowing the hellstrip between the two driveway aprons (Imight let it go to see what happens with temps popping up withdry conditions). He was over last weekend when I was working, so this was Round 2. Round 1 wiped out some turf, but Round 2 wiped out twice as much. He felt bad, but the work needed to be done, and I'm used to fixing the grass. :crazy:

Fast forward to my next liquid app, which I got done tonight. Since I added Microgreene, I dialed back my usual rates on Rgs and Air-8, to stay under the 7:1 ratio on the label. I upped the N, since I'm holding off on a granular app of Bioplex, since we will be having folks over on Sunday. I like the "smell of success", but everyone else won't.

All below, 1 gallon carrier per M:
Rgs 3 oz.
Air-8 6 oz.
Microgreene 4 oz.
SLS 15-0-15 6 oz. (Front) 5 oz. (Back)

We are at the end of the spring flush growth, and Poa A seedheads are almost gone, so I sharpened the Ninja blade and switched over to mulching. I kept HOC at 2.5" for the front and lowered to 2" in the back. Density front/back is insane, and color in the back is, too. That's why I only bumped the rate of 15-0-15 to 5 oz. (from 4 oz.) in the backyard. I'm really happy with that aspect of the lawn. I slowed my walking speed in the front, to more appropriately apply the spray app. I've been going too slowly and haven't applied enough.

In past years, I've applied 2+ lbs N in the spring (with ~4 lbs in the fall). Usually, I'm mowing every 4-5 days to keep up. This year, I'm amazed that I have crazy density with good color, but no excessive topgrowth. No need for PGR at these HOCs. Foliar apps in the spring is where it's at!!! :yahoo:


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> So, I had a "find" today at the garden center, after striking out looking for a Cherokee Purple heirloom tomato (got a Black Krim and Orange something or other heirloom).
> 
> They stock N-Ext Products, and sell single gallons as opposed to having to buy the 4-Pack!


I need to come to Lawnguyland. I can only have dreams about such things...except I do have the one story about first discovering Screamin' Green fert when it was being sold at a grocery store that I happened to visit one time a few years ago. And it was only like $25 per bag, too. They even had the version with Prodiamine. I've driven by that store a number of times since then, and it never happened again. I still remember I bought 3 bags (one with Prodiamine, and one to use on my family member's lawn). Only a few years later I discovered this was actually a well respected, popular fertilizer. I bought it because it was cheap and looked like a great blend. I had never heard of it. If only I had remembered gloves that day, as many of the bags were split and wet from rain. What a mess it was hunting through those pallets for a few good bags, having to move the car from the fire lane after that to park the car, steering with my forearms, and then walking into the store with my hands all dirty and asking for a bathroom sink to wash my hands afterward. I guess someone was trying to get rid of a pallet or two of damaged bags.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, I had a "find" today at the garden center, after striking out looking for a Cherokee Purple heirloom tomato (got a Black Krim and Orange something or other heirloom).
> 
> They stock N-Ext Products, and sell single gallons as opposed to having to buy the 4-Pack!
> 
> 
> 
> I need to come to Lawnguyland. I can only have dreams about such things...except I do have the one story about first discovering Screamin' Green fert when it was being sold at a grocery store that I happened to visit one time a few years ago. And it was only like $25 per bag, too. They even had the version with Prodiamine. I've driven by that store a number of times since then, and it never happened again. I still remember I bought 3 bags (one with Prodiamine, and one to use on my family member's lawn). Only a few years later I discovered this was actually a well respected, popular fertilizer. I bought it because it was cheap and looked like a great blend. I had never heard of it. If only I had remembered gloves that day, as many of the bags were split and wet from rain. What a mess it was hunting through those pallets for a few good bags, having to move the car from the fire lane after that to park the car, steering with my forearms, and then walking into the store with my hands all dirty and asking for a bathroom sink to wash my hands afterward. I guess someone was trying to get rid of a pallet or two of damaged bags.
Click to expand...

Gotta love those finds!


----------



## Chris LI

It has been warm and dry, so I did a lot of watering today: 1/2"+ on main front, ~1\2" in other areas. Planted two tomatoes, reset a few sections of scalloped concrete border in the front and planted some Begonias/added mulch in the front bed under the window.

Dad's Prickly Pear is in bloom.


This section under the trees really thickened up. I think the soil stimulants via foliar apps are helping root development of the turf and direct fertilizer application, so the tree roots aren't stealing all of the nutrients. It may not be worthy of the baseball shot, as the "reel low" guys do, but it was fun to do and I think shows off the density a little. Next mow should be a slight bit thicker, as I took it down to 2" in this last mow from 2.5" (in actuality, it is slightly higher 2.6"+).

I usually have to give the perimeter pass in front of the Pachysandra more granular fertilizer and water, because that area suffers from the trees sucking the nutrients/water up. I'm not seeing it happen there, yet. Even the area between the three maples is thicker, and that has A LOT of surface tree roots (top left edge of both shots, behind and to the right of the fire pit).

Brown splotches are the spray app. I took the photos before watering that area. area. I noticed that some other areas didn't completely wash off after irrigating, but that will get recycled during the next mulch mow.


----------



## M32075

I need to start doing some research on spraying that's crazy thick and green


----------



## Chris LI

M32075 said:


> I need to start doing some research on spraying that's crazy thick and green


Thanks! It's definitely worth it. A little investment and a little practice/extra effort pays off. Except for spraying occasional herbicides, I used to be a granular only guy. Now, I heavily supplement my granular program with liquids, and really think it's worth it. Better density and less topgrowth, and I like tank mixing products, so I'm only making one pass over the lawn.


----------



## BH Green

Looking really good @Chris LI!

I agree with you on spraying liquids, it's a game changer! I was planning on doing more regular liquid apps, but we've had an unusual heat wave with temps in the 90's every day the past two weeks so I'm holding off on fert for now.

Do you usually spray in the evenings and water it in the next morning? I'm always worried about doing that and keeping the grass wet all night. Or do you spray in the morning and water it in right after? I struggle with the timing of liquid apps and irrigation.


----------



## Chris LI

@BH Green 
Thanks! I usually spray in the afternoon/early evening and wait until late night to water, or water the next morning. I don't currently have a timer, so it's manual DIY zones and hand watering/hose end sprinkler for non-coverage DIY areas, so it takes a little planning.

I try to leave foliar apps on the leaf blades for at least 6-12 hours, but less than 24 hours. I try to spray early enough to let the leaf blades dry a few hours before dark, to reduce chances of promoting fungus. Sometimes, it doesn't exactly go as planned, but I live with it.


----------



## Chris LI

My mini weather station showed 0.58" of rain for yesterday. No lawn work today, but broke out the Essential 1-0-1 for the tomatoes via watering can, with running it off the leaf blades/soil drench (not spray foliar app). Recent kelp apps via watering can have kicked in, too. Two new transplants recovered and the other five look really good.


----------



## Chris LI

@MNLawnGuy1980 
@bakler5 
FYI-I didn't want to hijack your journal(s), so I'm making note of maple tree root issues in mine, in case you're interested.

I've been dealing with surface root issues for a long time, with mature maples. I've "drilled and filled" using a long masonry bit and mason sand, which might have helped a little. However, since I started using N-Ext Rgs and Air-8, with foliar N apps last year, I have seen noticeable improvement. The combo seems to open up the soil and promote root growth and gets fertilizer straight to the leaf surface, to reduce competition with tree roots. This spring, I am using mostly foliar N apps,, and have applied only 0.21 lbs N granular fertilizer with AS. The turf looks stronger than ever, with better density and tighter knitting of the turf over the surface tree roots. I still have larger roots exposed, and have a higher HOC in those areas (typically 2"), which can hide them better than "reel low" turf, but thought it might be a helpful observation to pass along.


----------



## MNLawnGuy1980

Thank you @Chris LI...so what your saying is that roots will ultimately be a problem for me and mowing low! 
@g-man mentioned that he tries clearing them out each spring each when cleaning up the beds around the trees. That may just be the only thing I can do with them. Or just buy a new house!


----------



## g-man

I feel the roots when I walk the yard. It makes the greensmower rock. Walk thru a park with developed maple trees and you will see the roots.


----------



## bakler5

Thanks for the info @Chris LI! I am always looking for ways to minimize the surface roots. Now that you mention it, I did do an application of liquid aerator this year for the first time and the roots don't seem as noticeable as last summer. I will try the RGS as well. Appreciate it!


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## Chris LI

MNLawnGuy1980 said:


> Thank you @Chris LI...so what your saying is that roots will ultimately be a problem for me and mowing low!
> @g-man mentioned that he tries clearing them out each spring each when cleaning up the beds around the trees. That may just be the only thing I can do with them. Or just buy a new house!


Ultimately, yes. They will be a problem. As much as I hate cutting trees down, I would consider it. If you are "required" to have one as part of a homeowner association, I would replace it with another type of tree, after it unfortunately becomes diseased and dies.  
I would refrain from cutting tree roots, as you could destabilize the root system, which could result in the tree coming down in a storm, especially if the ground is saturated. I'm not an arborist, but spent plenty of time with Homelite Super XLs, 1050s and Husky 365s back in the day. My employer was too cheap to buy Stihls. :roll:

I have all maples in my backyard and they give me issues, but in slightly different ways. They all have surface roots, but the Norway Maple has slightly deeper roots that don't affect the mower nearly as much. However, they seem to have an alleopathic effect and inhibit grass seed germination. I've observed this in an unscientific manner, but seem to recall reading some type of documentation describing it (maybe the study re: mulching leaves and reduced broadleaf weeds-I can't remember). The three Red Maples near the deck kill me with the mower bouncing over their roots. However, they aren't killing me nearly as much now.  Also, my last resort of seeding Tri-Rye under the Norway Maple is still hanging in there, but we'll see what's there at the end of the Summer. The Bewitched I got to take in that area looks great right now.

FWIW, I love trees and the shade they give, so mine aren't going anywhere, unless they really die.


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## Chris LI

bakler5 said:


> Thanks for the info @Chris LI! I am always looking for ways to minimize the surface roots. Now that you mention it, I did do an application of liquid aerator this year for the first time and the roots don't seem as noticeable as last summer. I will try the RGS as well. Appreciate it!


I also used foliar apps of fertilizer (15-0-15) with the soil stimulants, so the combo did the trick for me. I would include some type of fertilizer. I tank mixed everything, so there is no way of telling which one did the trick, or if it is the combo. My thoughts on the foliar apps were to get fert to the grass without the trees stealing the nutrients.


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## Chris LI

My Brother-in-law took out the RV for a camping trip, so after the mulch mow (front @2.5"; back @2"), I finally applied the first significant granular app of fertilizer, with Bioplex 5-3-1. I gave some extra 'medicine' as I call it, to the perimeter of the RV area and the main front lawn. Around the RV was highly trafficked recently, with prep for the trip (pressure washing, loading/unloading compartments, and replacing flooring in driver's side compartments behind the rear axle). Some is wiped out, but most will recover. The main front lawn seems very hungry, and not as dark/thick as other areas, so it got more, too. Those two areas received ~0.75 lbs N, with the remainder receiving ~0.5 lbs N. Since it is very dry, I didn't wait until late night to water, and started around 9 pm. Water is still on.


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## Chris LI

Good news and bad news...

Bad news first...BIL wanted the tarps tied together overlapped better (not enough overlap when new set was installed last fall). During the process, we partially rolled up the first section and got side tracked for a few minutes, so we partially solarized the section next to the RV. The photos were taken 4 days later. The damage got a little worse after that.

Good news...the Bioplex kicked in and greened up all areas, and some of the burned area has begun to recover. We'll see what happens. Two nights ago 0.03", yesterday 0.89", tonight 0.01" of precipitation to help with recovery.

Yesterday, trim, edge, blow and mulch mowed with Ninja at 2.5" front and 2" back.


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## Green

@Chris LI,

If you go backwards from this post of yours in my journal: https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=202897#p202897

You can see in reverse what happened after some tarp damage in 2019. It included new grass that was Spring-seeded not too long before. It went pretty brown...and flopped over. But it wasn't dead, and it came back within about 6-8 weeks. I have some photos in there. For reference, the sequence begins on August 8th, 2019 and proceeds forward.

Btw, thanks for the advice on the magnet. It was very useful. Still finding the occasional nail here or there.


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## M32075

Happened to me this spring hosing off the pool cover and letting it dry. Bounced back after a couple of weeks but I also have zoysia


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## Chris LI

@Green
@M32075 
Thanks for the reminder and support. I forgot you (@Green) were in the same boat as me two years ago (and I commented about the Milo). 

The rain and comfortably cool weather we had recently helped water in my biosolids app, and have favored recovery. Life/color is coming back. :mrgreen:

The rain totals changed slightly (0.01" to 0.02") with an additional 0.25" on Saturday, for a total of 1.19" overall for the three days, if my math is correct. Growth kicked a bit yesterday and today, with some sun.

I avoided spraying Triclopyr last week for a few reasons (hot weather, time, rain, etc.). More hot weather is predicted for this week.


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## Chris LI

HHH, with 86* for a high and heat index in mid 90's. Tomorrow is predicted to be the same with high of 87*. We received 0.54" of rain tonight, with 0.39" in the first 20 minutes with high winds, just after 7 pm. Strong growth with the biosolids app.


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## Chris LI

The highest the temps hit was 89* on Wednesday, but humidity has been very bad with the heat index in the mid-high 90's, with rain events. We had a little last night (0.03"), but Elsa hit us with an additional 1.63", which wasn't too bad, considering totals in the region were 3-4".

After it dried out today; trim, edge, mow, blow (2.5" front, 2" back) I had to double cut the main front (45* diamonds). The higher rate of Bioplex really kicked. I definitely will be doing liquids for the remainder of the summer, until around Labor Day. I still haven't gotten the Triclopyr down with work/family/hot weather. We had a light spritz this evening to take the edge off. It's still 73* at this point. The area next to the RV recovered a bit. Yesterday, I foliar sprayed kelp on the tomato plants.


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## Chris LI

Gloomy days lately, have been good grass growing weather. The main concern is fungal activity, since this weather is ripe for it. I picked a few weeds today and scouted for my plan for the next couple of days. Growth is strong and I may raise HOC with HHH weather predicted for the next few days. Otherwise, I'll violate the 1/3 rule going into adverse conditions. I may spray some Microgreene, and may chance a Triclopyr app, but haven't decided yet. Maybe Serenade, too.

Foliar app of organic Essential 1-0-1 (Nova Green) on the tomatoes. They're catching up to my MIL's, which went in a couple of weeks earlier.


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## Chris LI

I finally had some time to have a Zen moment when mowing, until disaster struck...

My lawn plans yesterday were derailed, when a rear wheel on the Snapper failed during the mow and broke off at the hub. At least I finished a double cut on the main front, with putting the striping kit on for double wides on the second cut. I looked online and didn't have any overnight Amazon replacements, and struck out at local big box stores.

Looking for a silver lining, I set up my tomato string apparatus and did a foliar app of K4L Extreme Blend on the tomatoes with a 2 qt Chapin hand pump sprayer (I love that thing).

I scouted out local Snapper Dealers (not too many) this morning and headed out. I decided on upgrading to the steel wheels they use on the commercial versions. A shout out to Carl's Equipment on Rte. 112. I was going to buy the pair, but they only had one, which was fine, since that would get me going! While I was there, I gave him P/Ns for the air filter, pre-filter and plug, to tune the old baby up. He didn't lose out on a sale really, with only one wheel in stock. Right after he rang me up, I glanced at his Redmax t-shirt and it dawned on me that I was overdue for the air filter, pre-filter, and plug for my Redmax blower, which worked out to be roughly the same price as the wheel (and I told him that his t-shirt made the extra sale). As soon as I installed and confirmed fit on the wheel, I ordered the other one online. FYI-the drive axles are the same P/Ns on the residential and commercial, so anyone looking to do the upgrade, it's worth it. The price is basically the same for the plastic or steel versions, so it's a no-brainer. The steel version is only 1.75" wide as opposed to the plastic at 2", so it will sink in slightly more in mushy conditions with the extra weight and narrower contact patch, but will probably last forever.

Anyway, I finished up the mow today, with striping double wides next to the RV, and also mowed the backyard. I increased HOC on the front to 3", because it is still growing like crazy, and we were in for HHH days. I found one kbg blade at 7.5" yesterday after only a 6 day mow (avg height was 4.5" to 5.5"). The backyard I kept at 2". I love the density. I did a lot of watering last night and this morning, so I could reduce stress and spray Triclopyr later in the day (which I did, finally). Weather station photo is from 3:25 pm today. What a swamp!


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## Wiley

@Chris LI dang! The lawn and landscaping are looking great.


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## Chris LI

Wiley said:


> @Chris LI dang! The lawn and landscaping are looking great.


Thank you!


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## Chris LI

Today was hydration day. Hydretain went down at label rate (9 oz/M) on all of front yard and select areas of backyard (at slightly lower rate). All lawn areas were watered (regardless of Hydretain application). Mother Nature added 0.37" from around 1 am until 2 am. We'll see how it goes. I think Hydretain helped some last year, so I'm hoping for the best. Weather conditions have been a little better than average this year.


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## Vtx531

Got your moneys worth out of that original wheel. Is it self propelled or strictly push?


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## Butter

Looking good! Good to see you got the Snapper back in service quickly.


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## Chris LI

Vtx531 said:


> Got your moneys worth out of that original wheel. Is it self propelled or strictly push?


Yes, I did! It is self propelled and I'm happy with the choice I made on the Pro-sumer version vs. the Commercial version. The major selling point of the one I purchased is the powerful B&S engine @ 8.75 Tq with OHV on the Hi-Vac version (roller inward lip on the deck). Since Briggs bought Snapper, they put their monster of a motor on this baby. Since I planned to use it for a lot of mulching, I wanted a motor that was much stronger than the Honda.

I also love the drive for a few reasons...variable speed on the fly; smooth; can make tight turnarounds and face the opposite way and squeeze the lever to start moving without being behind it to push to activate the drive (one-handed), simplicity to work on (i.e. can repair yourself); cheap to fix; when it did break, was able to push like a non-propelled version without any drag from the tranny; disc drive is where it's at.

The main weak point was the plastic wheels (no biggie), which the steels are direct bolt-on replacements, which cost about the same. Go figure. Maybe that's why they named their other line "Simplicity". I love my Snapper!


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> The major selling point of the one I purchased is the powerful B&S engine @ 8.75 Tq with OHV on the Hi-Vac version (roller inward lip on the deck).


Craftsman (MTD design) had until a year or so ago, a 21" yellow model (identical to the Cub Cadet labeled version). It had either this 8.75 or an 8.50 B&S. I was considering that mower, but ended up buying Toro because of the added HOC.

Husqvana has a mower with an 8.75 Kohler engine, I think. But checking their website, it looks like they're getting out of the walk-behind mower business or something. They only have 3 models listed now, all 20"...2 battery models, and one with a Kawi engine What the...?! Couldn't find the older models listed. They used to have a good selection.

The Honda GCV-160 is 6.9 torque. It's ok. But someday I'd like something more powerful. I'm not a fan of Toro's Recycler blade. Maybe I should also get a Gator for that mower...it really helps on the other mower.

The mower industry is in flux...Toro already has a heavy-duty 21" 60-volt battery model out, as well as many consumer battery Recycler models.

I'll probably go with Snapper in the future...either one of the traditional models, or one of the MTD-design quiet power models...or both (because the MTDs only go up to a marked 3.75 inch HOC--which isn't really 3.75...more like 3.7 or even 3.65). Over and over, Snapper, Toro heavy duty, Honda heavy duty, and Masport (5" HOC on some) get my attention. Someday...

But 10 years from now when I buy my next mower, everything might be electric.


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## Chris LI

Butter said:


> Looking good! Good to see you got the Snapper back in service quickly.


Thanks! Breakdowns during mid-mow really hurt. I was very happy that I got it going the next day. I put a lot of wear and tear on that baby, so far. The striping kit adds extra strain to everything.


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## Chris LI

@Green 
You really did your homework. Those 8.5-8.75 OHV Briggs engines are quite strong. The Snapper HOC is 1.25"-4", which is great for me. The 4" is plenty tall enough, and is probably slightly over that, especially with the new rear wheels. The Ninja blade has virtually no suction and purees the clippings. It works great during the spring flush, and actually adds a slight bit to the HOC, because it doesn't stand up the grass, at the higher HOCs. Now that the density is less in peak summer, and I hit 3", I'll probably switch over to the Gator for basically the rest of the season. It is very versatile. I can mulch, bag, or side discharge very effectively across the board. The Ninja minces the clippings more finely, but the mulching capability of clippings is very good, and it excels at leaf mulching. 
The bagging blade might come out at some point...you never know.


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## Chris LI

Observations today:

Additional rain overnight (last night) upped the amount from 0.37" to 0.45".

Two days after Triclopyr app, the clover and oxalis are annihilated. The drift shield worked so well on the Chapin, that I could easily find missed locations. No biggie. I'll get 'em next time. Maybe some will start to crap out more slowly.


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## Mark B

I love your documentation. I love your cultural practises. Your garden isn't half bad either. 
So many times I want to make a few more comments but rarely have enough time to make a comment that is worthy lol.
I really liked seeing the extra pics (around the back?) on the 10th July post. Would love to see your tomatoes...


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## M32075

Big fungus pressure last week how is your lawn holding up? If I remember correctly you're not a big user of fungicide.


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## Chris LI

@Mark B 
Thanks for the kind remarks! I try to make the documentation enjoyable to read and informative, not to mention reference points to look back on. I hope others can benefit from my cues and miscues. I know what you mean about wanting to comment. I find many great journals on TLF, but don't always have the time to comment. Yes, the extra photos were from the backyard. I'll take some of the tomatoes when I get a chance.

@M32075 
I'm keeping my fingers crossed with fungus risk. I haven't seen anything yet, but trying to scout daily. Funny you mention that I'm not a big fungicide guy (you're right). I used to be an applicator and steered away from them with needing extra PPE (respirator) and kids. We also tracked EIQ at work (Environmental Impact Quotient). I'm typically a Darwinistic guy, but I saw a sale on Do My Own for a small bottle of azoxy (promo code), so I bought one for insurance the other day. It is one of the newer products with lower EIQ.

Today, I surveyed weed control progress, tied up some tomatoes, and hand filed and balanced the newer Gator blade, to get ready to swap it for the Ninja.


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## Chris LI

@Mark B 
Here's the tomato photos you requested:





I had a lot of trouble sourcing heirloom tomatoes this year. I didn't find my favorite, Cherokee Purple, but I found a Black Krim. I had more hybrids than heirlooms, which is very unusual. I don't have time to grow from seed, so I buy 4" pots which sat for a bit and were 12", when I planted them very late (June). I share the garden with my Mother-in-law, so I plant the 7 tomato cages wrapped with hardware cloth on the right, and she has white eggplant, cucumbers, strawberries, blueberries, two kinds of beans, etc., and the single row of tomatoes on the left. I set up the tall stakes and twine for the overhead trellis for the tomatoes, which is about 7' tall. Varieties this year are: Heirlooms-Black Krim, Brandywine and Mr. Stripey; Hybrids-Lemon Boy, Early Girl, Sweet 100, Yellow Slicer.


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## Colaman

Chris LI said:


> ... My lawn plans yesterday were derailed, when a rear wheel on the Snapper failed during the mow and broke off at the hub. At least I finished a double cut on the main front, with putting the striping kit on for double wides on the second cut.


@Chris LI Just found your lawn journal and I must say that your lawn striping game is strong! I'm thinking your Snapper (engine) is a little stronger than my 30 y/o model... but it's been serving it's purpose so I can avoid using the riding mower on the new lawn... and I'll continue to use it for the Hi-Vac feature and during overseeding. Keep up the good work! :thumbup:


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## Chris LI

@Colaman 
Thanks for checking my journal out, and keep giving that Snapper some love! So many parts are available, that you can keep them going a long time. One great accessory that helps me a lot in the fall, is the side discharge chute. That and a Gator blade really helps with leaf mulching when it gets heavy.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I had to get my truck inspected, so I caught up on other members journals.

Later, I got to crack-a-lacking on the lawn with a trim, edge, swap out the Ninja for the newer Gator, and...the second steel rear wheel arrived (as I watched), and was installed and running in 5 minutes (awkward sentence, 
but gets the job done). Front @ 3"; back @ 2". Perfect timing on the delivery! Sometimes, the small things really help. At night, I watered most of the lawn, with seeing some stress.

This morning and afternoon, I continued watering thoroughly, and later sprayed Microgreene 0-0-2 at the max N blackout rate in the front (16 oz. per k), and almost the same (13-14 oz) in the backyard. I've been seeing heavy growth, so I passed on the FeATURE and SLS 15-0-15, to stay away from pushing topgrowth.

Photos were taken yesterday. Brown areas in the front are from the recent Triclopyr bomb. Crate Myrtles are nearing full bloom. The closeup is from the backyard mini-reno next to the deck (1/3 each of Bewitched/Mazama/Beyond).


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## Mark B

Chris LI said:


> @Mark B
> Here's the tomato photos you requested:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had a lot of trouble sourcing heirloom tomatoes this year. I didn't find my favorite, Cherokee Purple, but I found a Black Krim. I had more hybrids than heirlooms, which is very unusual. I don't have time to grow from seed, so I buy 4" pots which sat for a bit and were 12", when I planted them very late (June). I share the garden with my Mother-in-law, so I plant the 7 tomato cages wrapped with hardware cloth on the right, and she has white eggplant, cucumbers, strawberries, blueberries, two kinds of beans, etc., and the single row of tomatoes on the left. I set up the tall stakes and twine for the overhead trellis for the tomatoes, which is about 7' tall. Varieties this year are: Heirlooms-Black Krim, Brandywine and Mr. Stripey; Hybrids-Lemon Boy, Early Girl, Sweet 100, Yellow Slicer.


Cor you don't mess about! Looking good pal, tomatoes nice and healthy like your lawn :thumbup: thanks for the photos, my ears pricked up when you initially mentioned it as it's my first ever attempt to grow some. Looks like you have a great trellis system, it's something I need to work on. Do you amend your soil any differently than you do to your lawn?

I swopped 100sqft of grass for a new polytunnel in the corner of my garden this year and I'm growing just 4 each of Latah bush and Stupice vine tomatoes, all from seed started in mid February. They are renowned for being very early tomatoes, so I went for them as we don't always have a long growing season. There are literally hundreds of fruits and flowers I cannot count them all, we started eating the first mature ones a week ago, we are so pleased with the results so far! Most of the plants each have over 200 tomatoes coming. I picked up a sickly looking plum Roma plant for 50 cents and even that is healthy and 5-6 foot high now. I spray them with EM effective microbes and seaweed and feed them an organic fert. I sowed a few basil seeds in each pot and where it didn't germinate I use some woodchip as a mulch. I looked into using sea water and sea solids to fertilize plants then I sprinkled 0.5, 1, and 2oz of unrefined sea salt on the soil around six of the eight plants and left two untreated as a control about three weeks ago. I have a brix meter to test the nutrient density results later. We've only had a few fruits so far but the taste tests are very encouraging, we also have some fun doing blind taste testing on our guests. I have even thrown some sea salt on a section of grass to see if there is any adverse effect to it, 2 weeks later there is no visible change. I need to do some more research on this but you can use some to add minerals without excess sodium build up.


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## Chris LI

@Mark B 
Thanks! Besides cultivating turf, tomatoes are another passion of mine. I love a great tomato sandwich in the summer with a big glass of homemade iced tea.

As far as amending the soil, I use similar products and principles. I use organic granular fertilizer/compost in the garden, but I've moved away from strictly organics in the lawn, with the kids getting older and less physically active in the yard. I use Espoma Biotone 4-3-3 and Sustane Concentrated compost 2-6-3 granulars in the garden (look back to June, when I planted). They have beneficial microbes. Then, I supplement with liquids; Kelp4Less Extreme Blend, GS Plant Foods Kelp and Root Ruckus, and Organic Essential 1-0-1 (Nova Green), both as foliar sprays (except for Root Ruckus) and soil drenches (all products). I am overdue for the Aspirin trick (Google/YouTube it, if you're not familiar). What I do identically for lawn and vegetable garden is to mulch leaves for additional OM. The soil is very rich, from doing that for many years. I spread granulated lime at the end of the season, when I remember/have time to do so. I make piles according to particle size when I bag leaves for garden mulch, and place the smallest particles on the bottom/largest on top. I don't turn over the soil, but spread the leaf mulch apart to plant, so I don't disturb the leaf mulch. This helps keeps weeding to a minimum. Just like the lawn; don't disturb the soil!

Your tomatoes look amazing. They are producing like crazy! They remind me of the Campari tomatoes I buy in the store. They're tasty and sweet, and can be sliced nicely for sandwiches or wedged for salads.

I'm curious about your salt use. I was always taught to keep the salt index low, and use gypsum ASAP after salt damage for soil remediation. The only exception would be Epsom salts to use as supplemental magnesium.


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## Chris LI

We had some moderate temperatures, lately. Low-mid 80's highs and 65, 65, 68, 70, 66. The last three days, bumped up to 87, 87, 88 today. Yesterday, some liquid K from Growth Products 0-0-25 went down at 15 oz/M (1/3 lb K/M), with the Blue Mule sprayer. I let it set a few minutes and lightly washed it off. Today was watering day with both hand/DIY irrigation. I pulled some crabgrass in the front lawn, where I get some weed seeds from the front garden. My neighbor's weed patch has quite a bit, and the prevailing winds carry them over to me. The Crate Myrtles along the property line help shield the lawn a bit. The Microgreene 0-0-2 app seems to be starting to darken, and the lawn might be starting to recover from the Triclopyr app. I still have strong growth. We're firmly in Summer survival mode.


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## Mark B

Chris LI said:


> @Mark B
> Thanks! Besides cultivating turf, tomatoes are another passion of mine. I love a great tomato sandwich in the summer with a big glass of homemade iced tea.
> 
> As far as amending the soil, I use similar products and principles. I use organic granular fertilizer/compost in the garden, but I've moved away from strictly organics in the lawn, with the kids getting older and less physically active in the yard. I use Espoma Biotone 4-3-3 and Sustane Concentrated compost 2-6-3 granulars in the garden (look back to June, when I planted). They have beneficial microbes. Then, I supplement with liquids; Kelp4Less Extreme Blend, GS Plant Foods Kelp and Root Ruckus, and Organic Essential 1-0-1 (Nova Green), both as foliar sprays (except for Root Ruckus) and soil drenches (all products). I am overdue for the Aspirin trick (Google/YouTube it, if you're not familiar). What I do identically for lawn and vegetable garden is to mulch leaves for additional OM. The soil is very rich, from doing that for many years. I spread granulated lime at the end of the season, when I remember/have time to do so. I make piles according to particle size when I bag leaves for garden mulch, and place the smallest particles on the bottom/largest on top. I don't turn over the soil, but spread the leaf mulch apart to plant, so I don't disturb the leaf mulch. This helps keeps weeding to a minimum. Just like the lawn; don't disturb the soil!
> 
> Your tomatoes look amazing. They are producing like crazy! They remind me of the Campari tomatoes I buy in the store. They're tasty and sweet, and can be sliced nicely for sandwiches or wedged for salads.
> 
> I'm curious about your salt use. I was always taught to keep the salt index low, and use gypsum ASAP after salt damage for soil remediation. The only exception would be Epsom salts to use as supplemental magnesium.


Thanks for the reply Chris. You have a solid routine for your plants, I Iooked up and really like the look of those products you use. Great that your soil is rich from all the leaf mulch! :thumbup:

Our tomatoes do seem to be agreeing with the conditions they have been provided with!   Maybe we are having a lucky first attempt at growing them. They are so darn tasty compared to shop bought ones!
This past year, I spent some time looking into building soil for nutrient dense food, which is also how I ran into the whole thing about using sea salt. To be clear, I am referring to unrefined sea salt, in my case himalayan salt, not NaCl table salt/grit for melting ice etc. From what I understand, the sea has a wider range of minerals that the land, 97 compared to 75, so using sea water to provide those missing minerals is a way to provide plants with them so that ultimately you will be eating more nutritious food that the plant provides. A rate that I read to use sea salt is at 2 cups/sq.yd. twice a year, even up to 4 times a year, for 3 years straight and then not at all for 2 years, thats why I am testing at 0.5, 1 and 2oz per 12in pot. I have extra plants outside also, maybe I will try a 4oz app on one or two of them, initially I thought 2oz per pot was ridiculous haha but as a bit of a rebel I went for it anyway. It's a few weeks after application now and the plants are doing well so...

Other things about sea salt: I tested the TDS of ocean water on a cheap TDS meter I have and it came in at 400 with the x10 icon flashing. Three tbsp of sea salt per 10 gallon bucket of water produced a similar result. 
From what I remember reading, missing minerals from the sea can be a boost to the beneficial soil micro organisms and can reduce the numbers of harmful micro organisms. There was no evidence shown though so take that with a pinch of salt. It did made me speculate as to whether it would help with disease pathogens etc. More research needed.

I agree with you about keeping the salt index low. I am not sure that grass needs or can even utilise the extra minerals from the sea anyway. Hence why I have up until now, only spread a small amount of dry sea salt to a grassed area simply for observation.


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## Liquidstone

That KBG mix by the deck looks like it is doing great. Always love your cultural practices as well so kudos for that and for documenting. That garden is exceptional. I'll keep following along!


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## Chris LI

@Mark B 
Thanks for the explanation on the sea salt and the additional info on your tomatoes. It's nice to be able to enjoy eating a crop that you grow,, while admiring another crop you grow. :nod: I figured that you were looking to add minerals to the soil, as we use Epsom salts to add magnesium. I battle direct salt spray from the ocean at work on my formal turf panels, and occasional inundation of ocean water on my ballfields, so it peaked my interest, when you brought it up. Note to self: check inventory of gypsum at work and reorder as necessary.

@Liquidstone
Thanks for the kind remarks. It took about three seasons to bring that small reno section and the other mini-renos along. I hope it encourages other folks to go for renos, and break them into smaller sections, if they are intimidated by larger renos. I usually get hit with Rust in the late summer and early fall. Two sections were originally a monostand of Bewitched, which seems to be especially susceptible to Rust, so I overseeded with Mazama/Beyond. The diversity of cultivars has helped, as expected. Also, I have noticed a significant improvement with adding N-Ext Products to my turf regimen. Also, various type/brands of liquid products have helped both the lawn and garden, and have been a great complement to my granular fertilizer and soil stimulant/amendment program.


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## Chris LI

More watering today in front/back to hit areas I didn't water yesterday. Lawn is overall in a better place at this time, compared to last year. Temperatures and weather conditions this year have been more favorable than average, with adequate precipitation. I looked back in my journal and we really got cooked last year at this time, with temps much higher than average, with high humidity.

I forgot to mention 0.10" of rain a few days ago. We also had a little last night (0.05").


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## Chris LI

Note to self:

9.5 oz. of DEF = 0.1 lbs N

DEF = 15-0-0

I've been meaning to look it up, and just stumbled upon it.


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## Chris LI

I looked ahead at the forecast, and noticed that temperatures will be relatively moderate. 
I've been wanting to bring back the HOC in the front to 2.5, so with the low tonight predicted to drop below 60*, I went for it.

I did the usual trim, edge, mulch mow (Gator), blow (x2 with explanation). First I mowed the front at 3", because it's really thick (unusual for this time of year-I think it's the liquid fertility/soil stimulant program). Then blowed the edges and made perimeter passes and full mow of non-striped areas, with double wides with the striping kit (blowing out edges again). Back was mulch mowed at usual 2". Lawn is still healing from Triclopyr app. We had a little rain yesterday (0.02") with a mostly cloudy day. I ran the irrigation on the two front DIY zones.

Microgreene 0-0-2 app kicked and darkened nicely. Growth is still crazy, so I'm skipping a foliar N app, for now. This year is completely the opposite of last year. Last year, I couldn't keep anything alive. However, the section by the town land is still suffering. I think the PRG checked out.


----------



## Chris LI

Moderate temperatures and overcast days have been conducive to recovery from the Triclopyr app (77* high today-usually 10* higher at this time). Teachable moment: the pages on the label were wet and sticky, so I looked at the wrong rate and was too lazy to pull up the .pdf on my phone. The higher rate, coupled with higher temps resulted in some phytotoxicity, with some collateral damage. Not all of it is bad, though. I found some bentgrass in the front yard that Tenacity will be taking out soon, and triv in the backyard is toast in some spots. On a high note, Crate Myrtles are in full bloom.

Today, I edged, trimmed and mowed @2.5" front, 2" backyard. I double cut the main front, and the rest was single cut, with a mulch mow (Gator). I was too lazy to blow the sidewalk, driveway, etc., and it was late. Photos were taken after sunset, but camera auto settings make it look brighter. The last photo shows the prg checking out.


----------



## Chris LI

Started back on my spray game today with a tank mix (per gallon/M):

SLS 15-0-15 -- 4 oz (label rate for foliar)
Rgs -- 3 oz (low rate)
Southern Ag Iron -- 8 oz (half label rate, but highest I've used)

Since it's a very low N rate, I probably won't wash it off.


----------



## Chris LI

Received 1.16" of rain over the last day and a half. High temps have been 77* yesterday and 75* today, which aided recovery. The lawn looks a little darker, but I noticed some BP in my TTTF when I got home from work yesterday. Heat is projected to build over the next few days and heat advisories are beginning to pop up with the high humidity.


----------



## Butter

Those stripes look really nice! Do you have a striping attachment for your Snapper?


----------



## Chris LI

Butter said:


> Those stripes look really nice! Do you have a striping attachment for your Snapper?


Thanks! Yes, I have the Toro striping kit. I like it because it's quick and easy to remove. I've also rigged it behind my drop spreader when seeding, to get better seed to soil contact.


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday, it was hot, not as hot as other TLF members are experiencing, but very humid. Swamplike conditions, other errands and low fuel had me switch up my plan, for a better outcome.

I started midday, instead of late afternoon, and I did my trim/edge as usual with the string trimmer but decided to bag the clippings (2.5" front/2" back), mowing parallel to the street, without the striping kit. I didn't have the fuel or time to double cut (with mulching the clippings) and I wanted to stand up the turf and keep clippings off off it, due to high disease pressure.

Ghost stripes are still burnt in from the last few mowings. The color is a little better with last week's app of N/Fe/Rgs, but growth is still very strong, so I violated the 1/3 rule in the front and mowed off the color. Color came back a little bit with watering afterwards, with hoping to get it done in time for the leaf blades to dry during the day. The grass was drying out when a pop up T-storm arrived to keep everything wet, but not provide any measurable precipitation. I've been noticing that one of my Golden Arborvitaes has not been doing well. Upon further examination by my wife and son, he looked up and determined it is bag worms. She picked them off and I went to town with Neem oil. Photos include an interesting cloud formation with the impending T-storm.


----------



## Chris LI

A little hotter, but slightly less humid today, so it felt about the same as yesterday. Watered most areas thoroughly (~0.5"). I replaced an Orbit Voyager II head today and sprayed 6 oz/M of blackstrap molasses on the main front AFTER, irrigating thoroughly, to let it sit on top to feed the microbes/reduce thatch.


----------



## Chris LI

Temps eased off earlier in the week. I have not watered since last week, so hand watered areas are going dormant (right side of driveway and hell strip in that area). I didn't water them since they looked good and I wanted to see how long the Hydretain would have effect. Molasses from last week seemed to help with thatch a little.

Yesterday, I sharpened the newer bagging blade and swapped out the Gator, to get better bagging performance to pull up loose dead material and leaves which dropped. I also wanted to stand up the turf to cut it a little shorter without lowering HOC. Trim, edge, blow, mow, at 2.5" for front and 2" for backyard. Growth is still strong, so I violated the 1/3 rule. Grass looked visibly shorter with bagging blade.

I thought about spraying Azoxy or a app of Compaction Cure, but ran out of steam and time. Before mowing, I pulled off a few more bag worms from the Arborvitaes. The infestation seems to be under control.

With TS Henri approaching, predictions are for 3-5" of rain, so I'm holding off on watering. Disease pressure has been high with high humidity, so that's another reason why I'm limiting watering. We were basically missed by TS Fred, so rain was negligible for our area. I know upstate NY and CT received a good amount of rain. These may be the last striping photos for awhile. I'm probably going to overseed the sparse areas in a couple of weeks.

My experiment last year with lower HOC was a fail, due to the heat/drought. It's becoming more apparent this year with Zoysia making leaps and bounds. My spray apps have helped the lawn overall, but the Zoysia is exploding. The last photo is my best section of 100% kbg, which the feral cats pooped on. :evil: 
On a good note; tomatoes are starting to finally come in.


----------



## kman6234

Good luck with henri Chris! Holding off on watering is probably a smart idea! We're just on the outer edge of the storm track here in bergen county but my parents and brother still live on LI so thinking of everyone there.


----------



## Chris LI

kman6234 said:


> Good luck with henri Chris! Holding off on watering is probably a smart idea! We're just on the outer edge of the storm track here in bergen county but my parents and brother still live on LI so thinking of everyone there.


Thanks! As of right now, the Weather Channel track shows the center going right through my area. Good luck to all in its path.


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## Chris LI

The track of Hurricane Henri changed and it passed slightly off the east tip of L.I., so we're were spared. We received 1.05" of rain over about 20 hours.


----------



## M32075

Chris LI said:


> The track of Hurricane Henri changed and it passed slightly off the east tip of L.I., so we're were spared. We received 1.05" of rain over about 20 hours.


I got lit up with rain eastern Nassau county lost track when it hit 3 inches


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## Chris LI

M32075 said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> The track of Hurricane Henri changed and it passed slightly off the east tip of L.I., so we're were spared. We received 1.05" of rain over about 20 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> I got lit up with rain eastern Nassau county lost track when it hit 3 inches
Click to expand...

Rain totals seemed to be all over the place. Some areas had locally high amounts. After today's rain, my weather station showed only 0.08", which I thought was quite low, so I checked my rain gauge app. It listed 0.039", so it couldn't have been off by much.


----------



## Chris LI

Since everything was damp and the lawn recovered well with rain, limited sun, and moderate temps (high 70's to low 80's), I hand raked out some dead/thatchy areas after work. I left it out to dry, so I could suck it up with the Snapper in a few days.









I found a little Zoysia intruding by the corner of the driveway, so I broke out the Roundup deodorant stick.


----------



## Chris LI

I did NOT enjoy the mow today. Dusty, but swamplike conditions. Unfortunately, I needed to mow at the peak of the day. All utility mow, with bagging to get up all the junk that I raked out the other day (2.5" front; 2" back). I did a little more raking before I mowed to hit a missed area next to the RV and touch up a few spots. Irrigated myself during the mow with Vitamin Water and homemade iced tea my daughter made afterwards. I haven't watered in awhile (about 2 weeks), so I'm watering now to soften the soil up before the predicted rain. Clouds just rolled in to provide a little relief with a light breeze.


----------



## Chris LI

Friday night through Saturday night, we received ~0.5" of precipitation. Tonight, my eBay bid was accepted for an item. I won't say what it is, until I receive it (a bird in the hand...).


----------



## Liquidstone

The suspense!


----------



## weirj55

Blasting us with the Vaguebooking - love it!

I hear you with the weather - it has been so hot and humid here too! Walking outside to look at the grass, the sweat starts dripping.

Hope to learn of your successful eBay purchase soon.


----------



## Chris LI

weirj55 said:


> Blasting us with the Vaguebooking - love it!
> 
> I hear you with the weather - it has been so hot and humid here too! Walking outside to look at the grass, the sweat starts dripping.
> 
> Hope to learn of your successful eBay purchase soon.


Thanks!

I was hoping my next post would have a photo of my new acquisition. However, Hurricane Ida caused disruptions in transportation, so tracking shows it sitting (hopefully, not lost) two states over. It was scheduled to arrive today. It's delay is causing delays in my fall plans, but that is small potatoes compared to the devastation others are experiencing. My thoughts and prayers are with all affected. We were very fortunate to be spared of any issues.

Ida delivered 1.31" of rain, according to my backyard weather station. Locally, I think totals were a little higher.

Yesterday, I picked up some twigs and evaluated which areas I will seed, and which areas I will N blitz.

Today, I string trimmed/edged just the sidewalk, curb and a couple areas in the front and back. The collar broke off one of my full mix cans, but I had enough room in my other can after filling the Echo PAS and blower. A little blower work and bag mow 2.5" front; 2" backyard. A low of 57* last night brings a sigh of relief. Turf looks happier, but kbg is hungry. I need to correct that, soon.


----------



## Chris LI

While somewhat relaxing, but jonesing over my delayed delivery, I decided to do a little shopping. I've been contemplating on two purchases and decided to pull the trigger.

1. Sourcing urea from HD. Another member found it (can't remember who) and asked if it was 46-0-0. I'm low and may not have a chance to get to my supplier, so I ordered the 40 lb. box for $33.98 for Sunshine Harvest. A little pricey, but it's done. We'll see about prill size. They also have SOP, but I held off, since I want to use my liquid 0-0-25 up first.

2. I've been eyeing up Spoon Juice 5-0-1, but it's been too pricey. The combo with Air-8 has been enticing, but still too much, so money's stayed in my wallet, until now. The combo went on sale for Labor Day and I have some Rgs left, but Air-8 is low, so I pulled the trigger.

Good news, I checked tracking on the item and it made it into my state, just before midnight...hoping for tomorrow. &#129310;


----------



## Chris LI

My eBay "item" was delivered late yesterday, but it was too late for me to do anything with it, so I squeezed in a little play time with it today, after work. I felt like a kid in the candy store!

@weirj55 
I appreciate the humor and having fun with the suspense. Many of us TLFers are not only into this hobby to learn, help others, keep great lawns, but also to have some DAMN FUN! It's not a huge or earthshaking purchase, but useful and cool.

Credit for me pulling the trigger on this purchase goes to @Butter . I've been thinking about this item for a long time, but have avoided it, due to unnecessary trepidation with concerns of compatibility issues.

Anyway, without further ado...



Nothing like dethatching and bagging in one step. I have a 10-15 year old Craftsman electric spring tine dethatcher (predecessor to the Sun Joe, Greenworks, and Worx), but you can't beat 30 seconds to pop it on and go. The Craftsman probably pulls up more, but for general use, the Thatcherizer rocks! I did one E/W pass tonight, after work, on the front main lawn before the sky opened up (@2"; so lowered HOC). Snapper knew how to get it done back in the day, and the other manufacturers are still learning to make front tine dethatchers for bagging mowers. Exmark has an aftermarket company making them for their 21's and 30's and JRCO and D'ttach make them for Zero turns and standers.

Happy Labor Day, all! Be safe and have some fun.


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## Butter

Awesome! I wanted to guess "Thatcherizer" but didn't want to spoil the surprise. That's a good looking rig!


----------



## Chris LI

Butter said:


> Awesome! I wanted to guess "Thatcherizer" but didn't want to spoil the surprise. That's a good looking rig!


Thank you!!!

I appreciate your non response to NOT spoil the surprise, but I threw in the specific detail that it was an eBay purchase for you. I figured that you would get it. You need to have a little humor, now and then, and my busy season at work has diminished, so while I'm punchy, I am elated.

Happy Labor Day to all, who worked today, like me for the enjoyment or service to others. Now, I'm cutting into my steak that I cooked on the grill! :beer:


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## Chris LI

Made lemonade today, since I got lemons (rain) all day yesterday.

Bag mowed everything at 2". Next, hooked up the Thatcherizer and went to town 2x more, cross hatching. I stuck with the stock (mild) height setting and still pulled up a ton of organic matter. The dead Poa T spots in the backyard needed a more aggressive approach, so I hand raked that section and a couple more and bag mowed another boat load of material.

Ran late into the day, so I only had time to custom mix and drop my seed. I seeded all of my front and the Poa T spot and a couple of others in my backyard (stayed away from my 100% kbg, mostly).

The custom seeed mix i made was 60/40 kbg/rye. I found that it works better on my ballfields at work than the traditional 80/20, for overseeding, so I mixed it in that ratio. Kbg was even percentages of Mazama, Bewitched and Beyond. I mixed it with a tri-rye; Seabiscuit, Premier II and something else...Inter---.

I ran out of time and steam, so the two bales of peat moss and Tenacity will have to wait until tomorrow.


----------



## Chris LI

Also, my orders of Spoon Juice/Air-8 and Urea from HD both arrived today. Unfortunately, the urea is ag grade instead of a mini prill, but I'll live with it.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> Also, my orders of Spoon Juice/Air-8 and Urea from HD both arrived today. Unfortunately, the urea is ag grade instead of a mini prill, but I'll live with it.


First time trying Air8?

How big is ag grade? Not goofball size, I hope.

Just realized we have word-for-word almost the same description under "grass type".


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, my orders of Spoon Juice/Air-8 and Urea from HD both arrived today. Unfortunately, the urea is ag grade instead of a mini prill, but I'll live with it.
> 
> 
> 
> First time trying Air8?
> 
> How big is ag grade? Not goofball size, I hope.
> 
> Just realized we have word-for-word almost the same description under "grass type".
Click to expand...

No, I started about a year and a half ago. I bought the "Compaction Cure" (Rgs and Air-8). I like the combo, and they have helped with rooting and coverage under my maples, which have dense surface roots. The Air-8 is applied at a higher rate than the Rgs, so I'm running low on my supply. I've been wanting to try Spoon Juice, but it was too pricey. When the combo went on sale, it was a no brainer.

Some have pushed back on whether Air-8 is a "true" liquid aerator. Nothing can replace mechanical aeration. However, liquid aeration products can help with soil structure and root development. I believe they do, and can reduce the frequency of need of mechanical aeration. One thing I used to do on my pitch putt course was to use 5/8" solid tine aeration more often than hollow tines. It eliminated cleanup and spreading weed seeds and was about 80% as effective, from studies, if I remember. I wish rental places would have solid tine machines.

The mini prill is about the size of a Milo prill, and the ag size is about 3x the size.

Funny about the grass types; I only started seeding with rye a couple of years ago. I've avoided it up to this point with trying to establish kbg and some TTTF at times. The rye has been a last resort to establish ground cover where I could not get kbg to establish.


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## Chris LI

I spread 2 large bales of peat moss this morning on bare areas, with my compost/peat moss spreader. I love that thing!

Tenacity went down with a blanket spray on the main front, mostly a blanket spray next to the RV, and spot sprays in the backyard on the bare/thin seeded areas.


----------



## Wiley

@Chris LI that dethatching attachment is sweet! Is there extra pushing effort involved or does the ole snapper propel it smoothly?


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## Chris LI

Wiley said:


> @Chris LI that dethatching attachment is sweet! Is there extra pushing effort involved or does the ole snapper propel it smoothly?


Thanks! It was well worth the investment. It depends on the density of the turf. The drive will pull it through the cool season turf just fine. However, the Zoysia is so dense and thatchy, that I need to help it along, a little. I might need to clean the rubber drive wheel and metal disk it engages. A heavier spring and/or adjustment might help ,too.

FYI-There is a video on YouTube of a guy who modified his to fit a different brand of mower. Another option for non-Snapper mowers would be to mount a bar on the front, to simulate the front axle...in case anyone is interested.


----------



## Chris LI

Today was a water, fert, water, water, water, biostimulants, water, water, water day. :mrgreen:

It's been very warm, so keeping the seed moist has been a little challenging with the DIY non-timer irrigation system.

This morning, I sprayed DEF at 0.2 lbs N (19 oz/gal/M), with my new TeeJet XR11003VS (blue) tip. I only sprayed one gallon on the backyard mature mini-renos and other mature turf (~1000 sq ft). I really like the fine droplet size for foliar apps. I let it set 4.5-5 hours. I kept alternating between the DIY system and hand watering to cover the rest of the yard, without flooding/floating the seed.

I took a break to run some errands and mid-afternoon, I watered the DEF in and applied 6 oz Rgs and 9 oz Air-8 (max rates) to wet turf and immediately watered it in, working one section at a time, since it was warm and humid (83*; 62%). I used my other new TeeJet AIXR11004VP (red air induction/coarse spray) tip. I like it for the uniform coarse pattern, but the stock Chapin fan tip puts out a coarser spray with more volume, albeit with less uniformity. I'm torn between the two.

The TeeJet screen I purchased fits into the Chapin housing snugly, so it appears to not have room for liquid to flow through it. Maybe I need to switch over to a TeeJet housing for compatibility. @Green Have you encountered this situation? FYI-I had no clogging issues without the screen.

After multiple watering sessions today, the turf greened up and is showing recovery from the dethatching process. I have the Mets/Cardinals game on and it's raining at Citi Field, so we should be seeing rain soon...hopefully, not too much. 🤞


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> The TeeJet screen I purchased fits into the Chapin housing snugly, so it appears to not have room for liquid to flow through it. Maybe I need to switch over to a TeeJet housing for compatibility. @Green Have you encountered this situation? FYI-I had no clogging issues without the screen.


I have not. This is the housing I have:

https://www.acehardware.com/departments/lawn-and-garden/lawn-care/sprayers/7221856

Only issue with it is it started to leak as it's old. Teflon tape is a temporary solution. I should buy an extra kit next time I'm in the hardware store, but they're a bit pricey as you can see here.


----------



## Chris LI

@Green 
Thanks. That's the one I have. I'll have to give it a shot.


----------



## weirj55

I have a front dethatcher attachment for my walk-behind Ariens mower. I had great success with it when I was mowing higher, but now that I went low - it doesn't really work in my lawn. The SunJoe works, but having the bagging and dethatching process in one machine is nice. I mean the SunJoe can do it, but I have to unload the bag every three or four passes.

Glad you are liking your contraption! And I love that you kept us in suspense. Fun, good ole clean lawn care fun is exactly why we all do this... and domination lines!


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## Chris LI

@weirj55 
Thanks! Ariens equipment are quality builds. Their mowers are built like tanks. I did a lot of homework before purchasing my Snapper, and they were in the running. When I bought my snowblower, it was a no brainer. I bought an Ariens Compact 20. I'm glad they have a dethatcher for their WB mowers.


----------



## Chris LI

Today was more watering to keep seed moist and to bring back the drought stresses turf under the trees (yes, we didn't get nearly as much rain as others in the region, with the hurricanes). I saw a little seed pop on Tuesday, but will call germination as of yesterday, so today is DAS: 6 DAG: 1

Here's the warts and all photos I took last Sunday, but didn't feel like posting. I'm putting them up to compare to photos taken today, since there is some progress.











In today's photos, you can see Tenacity at work. The front was blanket sprayed, but the back was spot sprayed on a larger scale over the bare seeded areas. This is evident with the whitening, especially of the Poa T. The Zoysia wasn't liking it either. I ordered 5 lbs. of TSP to drop on the bare/thin seeded areas, which should be here Saturday. The lawn is hungry, but I'm trying to hold off a little longer on hitting it with N in overseeded areas.


----------



## Chris LI

It was slightly cooler yesterday in the 70's and damp/drizzly, with 0.03" rain.

Today, it warmed up to 82*, but only some areas dried out. The TSP came today, so I spread some on only the bare seeded areas with peat moss, and a tiny bit on the stressed area where tree surface roots are interfering just outside the established mini reno off the deck. I watered it all in and almost all of the yard.

I'm still holding off on N, but will need to mow soon, and would like to drop some granular N, right after the mow. The question is: Do I hold out a little longer to mow and do it after this mow, or do I mow very soon and wait for a second mow to drop granular N? The grass is back up to 3" with no pgr. Any suggestions?

I would have time to mow anytime from Monday to Friday. With the one mow, I might hold out to Wednesday, with the drop on Wednesday. With two mows, I was thinking about mowing Monday and Friday, with the drop on Friday.


----------



## Green

Wow, is the Zoysia starting to go dormant, or is that just due to the Tenacity?

Btw, I think I see some invasive Bittersweet vines in one photo...a problem everywhere these days.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Wow, is the Zoysia starting to go dormant, or is that just due to the Tenacity?
> 
> Btw, I think I see some invasive Bittersweet vines in one photo...a problem everywhere these days.


That's the Tenacity giving it a big slap in the face. :lol: I don't think it will harm it long term, 
but may set it back a little (hopefully, to help the cool season turf to recover a bit). It definitely lights it up and shows how badly I have been invaded. It's still way too warm for dormancy to begin, but temps are predicted to drop some this week. If I have a chance to hit it again, it will be interesting to see if it inflicts more damage to the Zoysia.

I think you're right. I've been focusing on the wild grapevines, but need to start removing some of the bittersweet, too.


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday-

DAS:11 DAG: 5

First mow after overseed. I sharpened the Ninja blade and mulched front and back at 2", avoiding the largest bare seeded areas. I tried my new mower blade sharpening attachment for the drill and liked it. It has a metal backing plate, instead of the flimsy plastic one the Arnold and knock-offs have. It helped reset the blade angle, which tends to become steeper over time. Of course, I finished it off by hand filing, as I like to do. I checked it with my angle guide and it's not quite 30*, but 32.5* is better than it was (I forgot to check before, but guess 35*).

The mow took some of the Tenacity bleached material off, so it doesn't look as bad. The front hasn't adjusted to the lower HOC yet...mainly the Zoysia. Seedling emergence has increased, as manual DIY/hand watering is more effective with temps easing.

The need for N has become apparent in the backyard with growth lagging, especially in some of the kbg areas, so I started my fall N regimen. It will be a combination of spoonfeeding and aggressive N, since some areas are overseeded. This drop/spray was fairly uniform, with a little more in needed areas (seeded/established trouble).

Recently applied:

0.2 lbs. N, - DEF on backyard kbg/kbg no mix 
~0.5 lbs P, - TSP on bare seeded/est. trouble

DEF app has not really shown improvement, yet.

Applied yesterday (blanket):

~0.25 lbs. N Bioplex 5-3-1 (75% SRN) granular

Tank mix 
0.1 lbs. N DEF (front) 0.15 lbs. (back)
0.06 lbs. N SLS 15-0-15 (front) 0.04 lbs. (back)*
6 oz/gallon Rgs
9 oz/gallon Air-8

*Simple Lawn Solutions does not include a critical piece of information, and their documentation is extremely minimal. They do not include weight per gallon. I had to extrapolate gross weight - estimated packaging. I needed to build K, so I purchased their 15-0-15 one last time, on sale, but am already looking at other options (N-Ext Products, Growth Products, etc.).

Spray app was treated as more of a soil app, with being watered in an hour or so after application (leaf blades still wet).

I've been tripping over the leftover bag of alfalfa pellets in my garage, so I spread the remainder over the bare seeded/trouble areas, to give them a boost. They also act as a seeding mulch with expanding and holding water. It's warm enough to let the steroids (triacontanol) do some work. :lol:


----------



## Chris LI

DAS: 13 DAG: 7

The lawn recovered some from the mow on Tuesday, but the Zoysia isn't liking it as much. That's fine, as I see a scant few seedlings in the Zoysia areas. They'll eventually get crowded out, but fight the good fight, in the meantime. I rotated watering yesterday day for several hours, trying to keep everything moist in seeded areas, and to get some deep watering under the maples in the backyard. The turf is still fighting with the tree roots for water. We haven't seen nearly as much rain as others in the tri-state area have, and are still playing catch up, with above average temperatures. This is good for seeding, as long as I keep irrigating.

I decided to foliar spray a light dose of K4L Extreme Blend at 1 tsp/gal/M this morning. I wasn't planning on watering it in, but after about 3 hours, I needed to water again, due to the warm, sunny, windy day (80* right now), before the storm comes tonight. I'm trying to get as much seed to germinate and grow in the little guys as possible, to reduce washouts.

Hellstrips are still suffering, especially the short one by the driveway I let go dormant this summer. The high traffic area next to the RV is slowly germinating. BIL trampled last year's mini reno in that area late spring while working on the RV. It's really starting to get old with fixing that area every year. Rhizomes are starting to pop through the tree roots area in the backyard. Raccoons/squirrels are digging half dollar sized holes in the backyard. I don't believe it's in search of grubs, because they aren't peeling it back.


----------



## Green

You know, Topramezone (available for $25 in 1-gal rtu at Ace under the Roundup brand) would probably really hurt the Zoysia, if you wanted to follow up with it in certain areas. Supposed to be more effective than Tenacity.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> You know, Topramezone (available for $25 in 1-gal rtu at Ace under the Roundup brand) would probably really hurt the Zoysia, if you wanted to follow up with it in certain areas. Supposed to be more effective than Tenacity.


Thanks! I had a $30 Amazon gift card kicking around and finally activated it and ordered some. It should be here Saturday. I'm thinking that I will scope out a section bordering kbg, as a test spot, so I can hopefully get some kbg spreading. Maybe, I can "walk back the line" a little this fall. The main front yard is a train wreck right now, so I don't have a lot to lose.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know, Topramezone (available for $25 in 1-gal rtu at Ace under the Roundup brand) would probably really hurt the Zoysia, if you wanted to follow up with it in certain areas. Supposed to be more effective than Tenacity.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I had a $30 Amazon gift card kicking around and finally activated it and ordered some. It should be here Saturday. I'm thinking that I will scope out a section bordering kbg, as a test spot, so I can hopefully get some kbg spreading. Maybe, I can "walk back the line" a little this fall. The main front yard is a train wreck right now, so I don't have a lot to lose.
Click to expand...

Let me know how it goes. I have a neighbor doing Tenacity again this year, who has had luck with it, keeping it from spreading, but I don't think has actually killed it. You might want to play with additives...but not sure what the RU stuff comes mixed with.


----------



## CorpRaider

Can confirm that topramezone product does hurt/bleach Zoysia, even if you accidentally over spray on it.


----------



## Chris LI

CorpRaider said:


> Can confirm that topramezone product does hurt/bleach Zoysia, even if you accidentally over spray on it.


Nice! :spiteful:

It looks like my front lawn is becoming a test plot. :lol: It used to be my showcase lawn on the property, and the backyard was the "trouble area". With the Zoysia invasion in the front, and kbg mini renos in the backyard, the roles seemed to be reversed. :shock: It just confirms that renos are the way to go. I just don't have the time in peak summer or a real irrigation system, to attempt a full kbg reno in the front. I'll just keep trying to beat the Zoysia back.

Thanks for commenting!


----------



## Chris LI

0.74" of rain last night, through mid-morning. Turf greened up and grew a little, except for the Zoysia. Some more seed popped, but taller seedlings were matted down from the downpours.


----------



## Chris LI

@Green 
RU Crabgrass Destroyer arrived today and I tried several test areas in the front yard. There were several weeds growing in my NoMix/Zoysia to spray. We'll see if I have any collateral damage to the Zoysia. :twisted:

I tried to spray where both cool season and Zoysia overlapped, so the kbg could fill in. I stayed away from 90-100% Zoysia and overseeded areas as much as possible. I got home from work and was burning daylight, otherwise I would have put a little bit of dye marker in the jug, to better illustrate where I sprayed. The fertilizer kicked on the cool season grass, so the Zoysia sticks out like a sore thumb, since it hasn't recovered. We'll see if this becomes more of a Frankenlawn as the season progresses. I hope others can benefit from my science project.

1. Close up of diagonal spray line from foreground to sprinkler head in the bed


2. Landscape orientation of shot #1


3. Closeup of bentgrass in right side of shot #2


4. Sprayed angle from lower right diagonally towards upper center, and a few spot sprays


5. Sprayed hellstrip from pole to first full segment of sidewalk and upper right above sidewalk


6. Sprayed from truck bumper up, and next to RV bumper 


7. Sprayed next to passenger side of RV bumper 


8. Sprayed somewhat of a reverse "C", and spot sprays


9. Spot sprayed and along border between grass types


----------



## Green

@Chris LI, this is going to be interesting! I already told my neighbor yesterday about you doing this soon and said I would let him know how it goes. Apparently, this is prime time to spray Zoysia. Depending on how it goes, are you planning to do a "second" app (of Topramezone) on any of these areas? Or to sandwich with another Tenacity app?

It's nice that this stuff is available now, courtesy of Scotts...Pylex is way too expensive. But at the same time, if someone buys a few of these rtu gallons over time, which aren't exactly cost-effective beyond the first one or two bottles purchased, it might make sense for them to purchase 4oz of Pylex! That's why I wonder if the 3-application sandwiching strategy (with Tenacity as the two bread layers) is going to be the way to go.

Additionally, I wonder, what is the effective Pylex rate when this stuff is used in the same manner?
It would also be interesting if we can find out what surfactant is included, if any.


----------



## Chris LI

@Green 
I've been mulling it over, for my next step with herbicides. I was planning on Tenacity 28+ DAG. I will have to look more closely at the RU Crabgrass Destroyer label for reapplication time, and see what the effect the first app has on everything and was also curious about surfactants, as you are. No changes yet. Also, the nozzle has three settings: stream, spray and mist. I went with mist to minimize droplet size and coverage, since it was calm and had no concern about drift. I had 2/3 to 3/4 of the gallon left, so I hope I put enough down for adequate coverage.


----------



## Chris LI

I got a mulch mow in before work this morning @2" F & B. Cool Season grasses in the front showed significant growth, so I violated the 1/3 rule badly (cut off >1/2). Zoysia recovered only slightly with some greenup and minimal clippings.


----------



## M32075

I'm kinda in the same boat as you with the mostly zoysia backyard. I had a zoysia front yard killed it did a full renovation it's a small plot but a headache to accomplish. Spent practically a whole summer killing it's unrelenting how it would pop out of nowhere. I come to embrace my zoysia backyard with no irrigation it's working for me it's really a idiot proof grass just cut minimal feeding zero weed or fungus pressure. It's just tough to look at 9 months of the year


----------



## Chris LI

@M32075 
Thanks for the support. Up through 2019, I used to be able to keep the Zoysia at bay with my cultural practices (fertilizer timing, HOC, etc.). I discovered a great balance between density and color at 2"-2.5", after mowing high for many years (really love the density at 2"). Last year, I started out lower (1.5") and didn't raise HOC quickly enough, and to add salt in the wound, we had a hot, dry, blistering summer and the Zoysia grew leaps and bounds. This year, I was very successful with spray fertilizer apps late spring-summer, which unfortunately seemed to encourage the Zoysia to overtake the cool season turf. Lesson learned. (The non-zoysia backyard really did well, too). I'm going to go back to my old cultural practices for the Zoysia infested areas.


----------



## Chris LI

DAS: 20 DAG: 14

Mulch mowed front and back @ 2".

I worked out a fertilizer strategy, with some experimentation. I have DEF, a little old small prill urea, new 40 lbs. jumbo prill urea, and some AS. I do not recommend the jumbo prill urea from HD, due to the size. Coverage will be spotty.

Today,

Main front-mixed DEF at 0.25 lbs. N/gallon/M. Sprayed entire area once. Sprayed non-seeded areas a second time for a total of 0.5 lbs. N. Watered everything in right away.

Front by RV-mixed DEF at 0.25 lbs. N/gallon/M. Sprayed only seeded areas (hellstrips, between RV and trees, far east perimeter to point). Watered in right away. Later, weighed and spread 1 lb. jumbo prill urea/M (0.46 lbs. N) and watered it in.

Back seeded areas-mixed DEF at 0.25 lbs. N/gallon/M and sprayed once and watered it in right away.

Back non-seeded areas-mixed DEF at 0.1 lbs N/gallon/M, sprayed and let sit on leaves 6 hours. Later, weighed and spread 1 lb. jumbo prill urea/M (0.46 lbs. N) and watered it in.

Next granular apps of urea will be done with small prills on seeded areas (~0.25 lbs. N) and jumbo prills on non-seeded areas at 0.5+ lbs. N, for better coverage. Maybe 1.25 lbs of urea (0.58 lbs N) or 1.5 lbs of urea (0.69 lbs N). I'm open to suggestions. However, I will not be melting down the urea and spraying it. It's too much work to immediately water it in and I still have DEF. The only exception is if I encounter a rain event and melt and spray the jumbo prill urea right before or while it's raining. I need to get rid of it somehow.

I plan on using the AS at the end of the season, when it gets cold.

I also dropped ~0.5 lbs. P via TSP on seeded areas.

P.S. I noticed the first slight colors of fall on a couple of trees in the Costco parking lot today.


----------



## Chris LI

It's been dry, so I've been watering the last couple of days. On Friday, I hadn't seen any bleaching from the topramezone, so I was considering reapplying it yesterday. However, I did see some yesterday morning and held off. Today, it was more pronounced, so I took some photos. 







The Zoysia still hasn't bounced back from the Tenacity. It seems to have started to go into early dormancy, despite mid-high 70's this week. I hope not. I need it actively growing to kill it.


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday, we had a little rain in the morning, with a quick downpour (0.07"), and after staying cloudy all day, a smidge more precipitation (0.01"), for a total of 0.08". This seems to be a good combo. Frankenlawn darkened a little more, but also whitened a little more.

Today, when I got home from work, growth and color exploded (finally) in the main front lawn, but whitening is worse. The cool season grasses intermingled in the dense Zoysia patches are showing better growth, so I'm hopeful they'll thicken up a bit, before the end of the season.

It was dark by the time I got to look at the backyard. It's still lagging a little (non-seeded areas that got 0.1 lbs. N sprayed and 0.46 lbs granular), but I think the urea should kick over the next day or so. I think the 0.46 lbs. N sprayed in the front and immediately watered in, made the difference. Tomorrow, I'll take a closer look in the light.

I missed an intended mow yesterday, due to the weather. My next opportunity will be Friday, and I may need to raise HOC to 2.5". We'll see.


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday, the backyard greened up and thickened somewhat. The color is better, all around. Cool season grasses are starting to push through the Zoysia (in the front). I need to push the backyard established areas with more N. I may go with 1.5 lbs urea (0.69 lbs. N) in those areas, 1.25 lbs urea (0.58 lbs. N) in better areas, and 1 lb urea (0.46 lbs. N) in seeded areas. Opinions are appreciated. Thank you in advance.

I'm debating on whether or not to raise HOC to 2.5". We'll see how high it looks tomorrow, and decide if I'll violate the 1/3 rule a little, or a lot. :lol:


----------



## Chris LI

I finally got back around to string trimming/edging and got a mulch mow in @2". I murdered the 1/3 rule in some areas, but stayed within it, in other areas.

I dropped urea at the heavy rate (0.69 lbs. N) on established areas with the Sunshine Harvest jumbo urea, and the seeded areas at (0.46 lbs. N) with the older mini prill urea from Kirby Ag. I really hate the SH urea. It's much larger in comparison (about 10x). Coverage is horrible, even at a heavy rate. I might need to up the rate to 1 lb. N per M, to get decent coverage. It doesn't dissolve well, even with soaking it will the shower head hose nozzle.

The section next to the RV is still slow to develop, so I sprayed DEF at 0.25 lbs. N and immediately watered it in, to baby it along.

Our average first frost is November 1st, so I still have time to get some more N down.


----------



## Green

@Chris LI If you get a chance, can you snap a photo of that urea with a coin alongside a bunch of prills? I'm trying to understand how large it is.


----------



## Chris LI

@Green 
I'll do you one better!

I did an experiment with adding ambient temperature rainwater (64*) from the top of a recycling can lid, that I collected today, after the 0.06" of precipitation. The Kirby mini-prills and Sunshine Harvest jumbo prills are relatively uniform in size, so they're easy to distinguish from one another. If I had to guess SGN size, it would be <50 for the Kirby and >300 for the SH.

Dry


Wet ~5 seconds


Wet ~30 seconds 


Wet ~1 minute 


Wet ~1.5 minutes 


Wet ~2 minutes 


Wet ~4 minutes 


As you can see, the mini-prills dissolve much more quickly, presumably due to size only. However, they are from a different manufacturer, so there could be slight variability in the manufacturing process. Some of the mini-prills look like they are beginning to dissolve almost immediately (at the 5 second mark), and are completely gone between 1 and 1.5 minute photos. After 4 minutes, some of the jumbo prills still have not dissolved. I would only use this for agricultural use (i.e. corn).

FYI-there are some air bubbles trapped under the blue Carnation Breakfast Essentials lid, so you have to look closely, to not mistake bubbles for prills.


----------



## Chris LI

I caught up on landscaping today.

I gave the Arborvitaes a trim, and went easy on the severely damaged one from bagworms. Halloween decorations are starting to go up and I needed to get it done early enough in the fall for them to recuperate, before the winter. I gave the ones in the front the usual flat top, but left it a little thicker. We'll see if I regret it with a heavier winter prediction of snow.

I also battled the English Ivy. It's been taking over the worst I've seen in a long time. I think it has to do with the mild summer we had.

I hope to mow tomorrow. Whitening is lessening and turf growth is strong. Seeded areas are thriving, with the exception of next to the RV, which got trampled when my BIL winterized the RV. I'll give it some more TLC and see what happens. I may not do the second app of Tenacity. I don't think I can stand anymore looking at a Frankenlawn. I want to see more uniformity and see if the kbg gains back any ground on the Zoysia. If circumstances allowed me to seed two weeks earlier, it might be a different story.


----------



## Chris LI

DAS: 32 DAG: 27

I don't like mowing in the morning, especially when mulching, but that was the only time available (2" HOC). What's the point of mulching, when 90% sticks to the deck, 5% on the sidewalk/driveway, and only 5% recycled onto the lawn? I hate having to scrape the deck!

Griping aside, everything is improving. Tenacity spray at seed down stunted the Zoysia, but color is starting to come back, along with kbg/prg seedlings poking through.  Whitening from more recent Topramezone spray is beginning to ease, but cool season turf is still bleached. Growth in heavy overseeded/mini-reno areas is strong. I did some more watering today to keep things moist and continue working Friday's urea drop in. As others have mentioned, I'm starting to see a few more leaves begin to drop, with the wind a few days ago. It's time to sharpen my Gator blades. Photos don't do service to the color. It's darker in person.


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## Green

@Chris LI, thanks. I'll have to compare it to the urea I bought years ago. I still have a little left.


----------



## Chris LI

Applied today after work:

0.46 lbs. N of urea to seeded areas-small prill 
0.69 lbs. N of urea to established ares-lg prill

Rain is predicted in about an hour to water it in. The lawn is thick in many areas, but Zoysia is still lagging, despite the above average temperatures. The recent highs were:

Thursday- 76*
Yesterday- 75*
Today- 75*
This morning's low was 67*

Highs are usually in the low 60's. Tonight should be the turning point for the season.


----------



## Green

Green said:


> @Chris LI, thanks. I'll have to compare it to the urea I bought years ago. I still have a little left.


Did you use Carbon-X ever? The urea/AMS in the original version was pretty large (though not huge).

Also, what's the goal with the Zoysia in those border experiment areas? Let it be or thin it out?


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Chris LI, thanks. I'll have to compare it to the urea I bought years ago. I still have a little left.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you use Carbon-X ever? The urea/AMS in the original version was pretty large (though not huge).
> 
> Also, what's the goal with the Zoysia in those border experiment areas? Let it be or thin it out?
Click to expand...

No, the only CE product that I used was the Stress X/STX DIY 4-0-25, which I think has AS. I probably would have tried the XGRN 8-1-8 this past spring, if it was still around.

The experimental goal of spraying the Zoysia in the border areas was to determine if I could thin it/weaken it to see if the kbg could encroach and the kbg/prg overseed could mask/blur the line, so to speak. A full reno is really needed, but not an option for some time. I figured that since it was pretty much a lost cause, I would turn it into an experiment, for those who had a little Zoysia and didn't want to, or couldn't reno the area. I hope others in a similar situation might benefit from my experience with this situation, and could make a better decision on a course of action (i.e. manage the Zoysia vs. nuke it).

I was able to manage the Zoysia for many years through cultural practices, to slow down the invasion and keep it looking dark enough to somewhat blend with the cool season grasses for most of the season. For a few years, I was able to keep it green enough into November/early December that it drove me less crazy. Last year was a perfect storm when I decided to lower HOC for the season, got hit with a blistering summer, and work was so intense with long days, that I could not keep up with mowing/watering. I could not have foreseen the circumstances and paid the price. The Zoysia exploded during that time. Regrettably, I would have been in better shape if mowed high and got more water down.


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## Robs92k

Arguably one of the most interesting journals simply because you're experimenting. Cool projects and great follow up. I love your patience…something I haven't mastered.

Love the rig as well!


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## Chris LI

@Robs92k 
Rob,

That is very gracious of you! I appreciate your comments. I like to mentor employees at work, and it kind of carries over to TLF. I'm a "best bang for the buck" guy (but not cheap). I want to maximize results for the inputs (labor, cost, etc.), so I will spend a little extra for a premium product, a convenient product, or a product that appears to have potential. I like to use what's proven as a basic game plan, but am willing to try new products, techniques, etc., and will spend a little extra to experiment, in order to set the bar higher, if I think it may be a good return on my investment. Also, I hope that others may benefit from my successes and failures, and try to document realistically, what I'm doing. I'm always looking for before/after photo documentation of other's results, for my work and hobbies, to determine the best course of action, and I figured that other folks might be of the same philosophy, so that's why I post a lot of photos. They're definitely not all glamor shots. :lol: Hence, my "warts and all" cliché that I tend to use (I won't reference it for the photos below, but it definitely applies. 

FYI-The RV is my BIL's and we babysit it. My kids enjoy the camping trips, so it's a win-win.

Segway to an update to my journal:

It's been relatively dry, so I've been selectively watering to get the last urea drop activated. I mulch mowed front/back on Monday at 2", and front only again today. I had another project that needed to get done today (re-shoot the clear coat on my driver's side fender, after an unfortunate Frog tape incident, which ripped off a relatively fresh job I did about a month ago; FYI-I really like Spray Max 2K clear in a rattle can).

However, I did give the backyard TLC today. I repaired the DIY zone under the trees, while I was rotating the heat lamps (halogen work lights) for paint curing, because I needed to drive it tonight. Once repaired, the area got a good soaking mid-afternoon.

Some recent observations:

Temps dropped since I last mentioned it, but rebounded. We had highs in the low 60's and lows in the 40's for the first time since the spring (49* and 47 respectively). Today hit 72* in the shade and the sun was strong, so it helped with paint curing, but caused a little stress to the turf with LDS. We had a little rain on Saturday (0.16" in the morning and 0.01" at night for a total of 0.17"). Tomorrow should be about the same with cooling over the weekend. Low was 56* last night and is currently 65*.

Tenacity afflicted Zoysia recovered color wise, but is still stunted. Topramezone on top of the previous Tenacity app put a whooping on it and it is still very brown (look at last section of hellstrip, diagonal line on main front, and reverse "C" on RV side, not to mention spot sprays). I think the combo may have been a little rough on cool season turf too, but overall I think it's regaining ground on the Zoysia. I can usually keep the Zoysia green quite a bit longer. Time for another urea drop, to get it all to perk up for Halloween. FYI-the camera does not do justice to the darkness of the green. I think the auto aperture settings allow too much light in. The hellstrips on the RV side are dark.


----------



## Green

I think you were on the brink of killing some Zoysia. One more app would've likely smoked a lot of it. We know the secret now.


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## M32075

I agree with Green this is promising


----------



## CorpRaider

I thought that Topra really hammered my nimblewill and bermuda (and zoysia where I accidentally sprayed it). I just had the roundup RTS stuff.

Chris, I am basically convinced now not to keep the zoysia. It has looked pretty crappy since like middle of September, which I am attributing to heading into dormancy (although, to be fair, it could be because of a lot of water with the seeding around it). I think I will wait to see how it looks in spring before spraying and digging it up. I've only got like 2 SF.


----------



## Chris LI

@Green @M32075 
Thanks! I was very close to going for another Tenacity app. However, the unfortunate delay in my seed down set me back for the next round. I didn't want the same issue that I had with a late season app, as I did a few years go when I nuked some bentgrass, and it was too cool/late in the season to fill in the dead spot. I have some weeds (flowers, I presume) in a few areas (see small hellstrip), so you never know what I might do. :crazy:

@CorpRaider 
Thanks! If you decide to nuke it, I would wait until it fully comes out of dormancy, to spray it. I would fallow extensively with at least 3 more gly apps, to make sure you get it good and dead. I wouldn't try to dig it out, as you have the potential of spreading stray living stolons. If you have a stray bit reappear, it would probably be highlighted with the 28-30 DAG Tenacity app. Then you could spot gly to make sure the job is done. I only had time for one gly app at seed down several years ago for a TTTF reno next to the RV, and it fought its way back to what you see now.


----------



## CorpRaider

Ok cool, I will spray it first a few times with gly next year. I've got some bermuda that I missed anyways.


----------



## M32075

When I killed off my front zoysia lawn years ago I started spraying gly middle of July to make sure it was well awake and growing. I kept watering and spraying gly to the end of August to make sure it was good and dead. It was a total eye sore but to this day zero zoysia


----------



## Chris LI

M32075 said:


> When I killed off my front zoysia lawn years ago I started spraying gly middle of July to make sure it was well awake and growing. I kept watering and spraying gly to the end of August to make sure it was good and dead. It was a total eye sore but to this day zero zoysia


^+1
@CorpRaider This is exactly what I was trying to convey. Think of the Zombie apocalypse. You've got to get them all, but if you do, you're good! Funny that they both begin with Z. :lol:


----------



## CorpRaider

haha! Now tell me how to kill off common bermuda.


----------



## Chris LI

CorpRaider said:


> haha! Now tell me how to kill off common bermuda.


Napalm


----------



## Chris LI

Dropped 0.46 lbs. N of mini prilled urea in seeded areas, and 0.69 lbs. N jumbo prilled urea in established areas (1 lb and 1.5 lbs urea, respectively).

Yesterday, the high was 71* and dropped to about 55*. I missed the peak temp today, but it was in the low 60's. It's now 50* and will certainly drop into the 40's. I believe the predicted trend will not allow it to go above 70* for the rest of the season.


----------



## M32075

Chris LI said:


> CorpRaider said:
> 
> 
> 
> haha! Now tell me how to kill off common bermuda.
> 
> 
> 
> Napalm
Click to expand...

How about nimble weed in zoysia my new dilemma


----------



## Butter

Have you tried Pylex on your Zoysia? I've had good luck with it on common Bermuda.


----------



## Chris LI

M32075 said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CorpRaider said:
> 
> 
> 
> haha! Now tell me how to kill off common bermuda.
> 
> 
> 
> Napalm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about nimble weed in zoysia my new dilemma
Click to expand...

Hmmmm...I'm gonna have to look that one up.


----------



## Chris LI

Slight bit of rain last night (0.06"). It melted the mini prills, but not the jumbo prills. Rain is predicted for tomorrow.

Today, I sprayed (per gallon/M) with TeeJet blue tip:

8 oz Southern Ag Fe
4 oz Microgreene 0-0-2
10 oz DEF (I poured heavy for backyard tank 13 oz)

I like the pattern, but still need to adjust my pace. I found it easier to do a double pass perpendicular to the first pass. We'll see if the color pops for Halloween.


----------



## Chris LI

Butter said:


> Have you tried Pylex on your Zoysia? I've had good luck with it on common Bermuda.


Oh, just saw this. Thank you. Yes, I used the RTU sprayer gallon of the Roundup Crabgrass Destroyer, which has the same active ingredient, for the spray on 9/25. It did a number on the Zoysia. I used it as a follow-up to Tenacity. The Tenacity set it back and the CD gave it a good beating. The diagonal line on the main front lawn, last few feet of hellstrip, and reverse "C" on the RV side are the most obvious areas. Cool season grasses suffered a little, but are now punching through the Zoysia. I've been pushing N hard and trying to mow 2x per week to get the cool season turf to spread. Tenacity only sprayed areas are slowly greening back up, but the Topramezone areas are still brown. Time will tell how much the Zoysia was hurt in the long term.


----------



## Chris LI

So, I'm eating my words on temperature predictions. We did hit the 70's again yesterday (73*), with a low of 62*...great grass growing weather. The Nor'easter hit us last night, but rain locally is less than predicted (0.22" so far). 1-2" more rain is predicted (originally 4"+ was the prediction).


----------



## Chris LI

The Nor'easter came through and didn't drop as much rain as predicted. Home weather station showed 0.34" and Rain Gauge app indicated 1.06". They're usually fairly close, so I guess locally, we were spared.

Leaf season officially started with the winds encouraging and redirecting everyone else's leaves into my yard. So many different leaves collected, so the Ninja blade was stored for the winter and replaced with a freshly sharpened old Gator blade. Bagging chute came off in favor of the side discharge chute and I mulched front and back at 2". I've become a fan of this lower HOC in the fall to promote density and leaf mulching.


----------



## CorpRaider

Haha. Man I have a park across the street and I get so many leaves that blow across it is almost unbelievable. I will try and take some pics of my leaf piles.


----------



## Chris LI

CorpRaider said:


> Haha. Man I have a park across the street and I get so many leaves that blow across it is almost unbelievable. I will try and take some pics of my leaf piles.


Definitely! I used to stress about them, until I embraced them. Use as much of that OM as you can, and bag the rest for your beds/garden/compost pile.


----------



## Chris LI

I fell a little behind in posting, but I mulch mowed @2" on Monday. Temps are dropping and color darkened, even without a frost at the time. Thursday night we had a light frost about 30' from the house. Temp around the house was 37*. Last night was a little colder with frost a little closer to the house (10'). Low around the house was 33*. First frost was delayed ~4-5 days. Temps are predicted to rise over the next few days. Trees are way behind with color change and drop (~2 weeks).

Photos from Monday 





Photos from Thursday




We'll see if it darkens some more, since we hit first frost.

A couple of unrelated things to note:

•I've gone down the wet shaving rabbit hole. 
I'll post in the other forum when I get a chance.

•I got to watch Happy Gilmore with my son for the first time tonight. What a blast!


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## bf7

Color looks great!

Not sure what is going on with these temps. The leaves on my fruit trees had already dropped by mid-late Oct last year. This year all the leaves are still intact and green.


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## Butter

Ain't nuthin like late season green!


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## Green

@Chris LI, noticed today Zoysia is well on it's way to fully dormant in the area now. Seems like a few hard frosts is what does it.


----------



## Chris LI

@bf7 
@Butter 
@Green 
Thanks, and sorry guys! I've been delinquent in posting. You are all correct!

Trying to be semi-scientific, we are way behind in seasonal temperatures/progression. There was a significant personal event in early November of 2013, which I use as a benchmark for average fall timing (especially since it was an average year). Around 11/6/13, I my backyard red maples had dropped 90% of their leaves within a week (as per usual). This year, almost nothing dropped, and we're at about 80-90% of leaf drop on those trees today. We finally got our killing frost last night. It hit the lowest temps of the season at just 30*. This was only our 4th frost this season, and the other three barely reached the perimeter of the house. The Ageratum (little purple annuals) in my front beds are my evidence. I picked my last tomatoes on Wed night before the 3rd frost, because the first two didn't kill the plants.

Anyway, I've been behind and only double mulched today, for the first time since last week (I mulched Mon 11/8, Th 11/11 and Sat 11/13). Grass is still growing, albeit slowly. Color is phenomenal! Zoysia held in there until last week, and cool season grasses have been encroaching. :yahoo:

Sorry I haven't posted recently, and thank you to all the Veterans that I missed giving my appreciation on 11/11. I hope everyone is well.


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## Green

That is going to do well through the Winter. I can tell from how it looks now. It's going to come blasting out in the Spring.


----------



## Green

@Chris LI

How did it go through Winter?


----------



## Chris LI

*Begin 2022 Journal*

@Green 
@Butter 
Sorry, guys. I've been delinquent in posting, but I'm trying to catch up (on viewing Member's journals, too). We had a cold, rainy Spring, so growth was behind and so was I, not being overly motivated with the weather and heavy workload as usual, for this time of year. I did break out the Snapper Thatcherizer in early Spring and go to town with it. It did a great job with thatch and lifting up Chickweed to be cut and vacuumed up. No Fall PreM hurt me again, but some CCO helped beat up the Chickweed. However, the Clover laughed at it. Time to break out the 61% Triclopyr amine. I sprayed some Prodiamine just in time, when the Forsythia was just past peak bloom. Mows have been 1-2x per week, bagging with the standard bagging blade at 2". Next mow will raise front yard HOC to 2.5". Fertility program has been all liquids so far this Spring, but I'll get into more detail in a future post.

To answer @Green 's question about the spot between the RV and tree, it did come in stronger. I also seeded the typical high traffic area behind it with tri-rye.

I wanted to get a first post out for the season tonight, before Memorial Day was over. Thank you to all the Veterans who have served our country, and honor to those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice, so that we may keep our freedom. I was able to squeeze in a mow with the first use of the striping kit before the weekend. I should have raised the HOC to 2.5", to get the stripes to pop better. 50 stars would've helped, too.





@Green


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## Butter

Nice to have you back. Lawn and landscape look great!


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## Wiley

As Butter said, everything is looking great! Envious of all those amazing flowers!


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## jabopy

Good to see you back Chris, glad you're keeping things looking good.


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## Chris LI

@Butter 
@Wiley 
@jabopy 
Thank you!!! I fell off the face of the earth for a bit and finally am back. I'm still playing catch up, but out there with the rest of you, getting it done.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday was a productive day.

I sharpened and balanced the newer bagging blade, broke out the curved stick edging attachment for the Echo PAS, and went to town. Edge, trim, bag mow @2.5" font/back. Backyard was a little overgrown on a 7-day mow, and still wet from Thursday night's rain, so it would have effect been a mess at 2". The 2.5" setting is really about 2-5/8", so that's a noticeable difference. I'll have to get the backyard back down to 2".

The main front is still a little behind in growrh and color, which I've noticed two years in a row, so I modified my plan to fertilize this week. I skipped all other areas with a spray app, because their vigor/color is good, and I'm trying to limit flush growth without PGR. Yesterday's app was: 24 oz 18-0-1 Greene Punch in 3 gallons of water as a carrier, over ~1500 sq ft (16 oz/M; 2 gallon carrier). This is a 16:1 dilution rater and close to the recommended 20:1 rate. Minimum rate is 7:1. I did this as a foliar app with the blue visi-flo nozzle (11030). Walked very slowly and did a double pass (cross-hatch). ~.25 N with 50% SRN. That should bump things up a bit.

I mentioned in an earlier post that I would elaborate on liquid apps for this Spring. I don't have exact dates, but:

1. 5-0-1 Spoon Juice and Air-8 at label rates (15 oz and 6 oz, respectively) in 1 gallon carrier/M, using stock Chapin (coarse nozzle), ~.06 lbs N; 1st week of May

2. 15-0-15 Simple Lawn Solutions at 10 oz. rate (for hose-end sprayers), but in Chapin with stock nozzle with 1 gallon carrier/M, ~.12 lbs N (estimate at 11 lbs/gal-SLS doesn't include wt per gallon); 2nd week of May (some iron was applied to the whole front with remaining Southern Ag-I think it was 4 oz/M)

3. 18-0-1 Greene Punch at lower than label rate at 8 oz per 1 gallon carrier/M, ~.12 lbs N; last week of May

Total N so far 2022:

Main front lawn- .55 lbs N
Rest of lawn- 0.30

With no PGR, this has been a good way to add some N, but limit top growth. Photos to follow.


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## Chris LI

To add to my info on liquid products for 2022; in addition to picking up the 18-0-1 Greene Punch, I also picked up 7-0-0 Greene Effect to try, and a restock of MicroGreene 0-0-2, a couple of weeks ago. After seeing good results with the 18-0-1 on the first app at a low rate, I went back to the local nursery on Tuesday, when it was 91*, because I wasn't attempting any lawn stuff, and picked up another gallon of 18-0-1 before it went up in price. The first time I picked up those 3 gallons, the owner asked me about this year's pricing online, and before I could answer, another customer showed up with a tree brach to have him diagnose the issue, so I ducked out to the register. :smile: This time, I got in/out before he could catch up with me. I may go back for some DeThatch, N-Ext.

I still have some other liquids that I need to get down soon: Growth Products 0-0-25 and liquid lime.


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## Chris LI

Photos from Yesterday:


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## bf7

Welcome back and lookin good! Especially the crisp sidewalk edge. I like the diversity of nitrogen sources too.


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## Chris LI

@bf7 
Thanks! I love crisp edges and think they provide a clean look to enhance the lawn and can help take your eyes away from the weeds. 

I like having various sources of N, so the plant can best utilize whatever is available at the time with the growing conditions. I have a bag of rebranded Purely Organics Products 10-0-2 or clone with SBM and distillers grains I purchased for $5 at Wal-Mart on sale last fall, for my summer drop.

BTW, I'll have to stop talking about no PGR, since I pulled the trigger last night on some T-Nex because of you. :lol: I've researched and thought about it for along time, and the color on your lawn put me over the edge. :mrgreen: It's the single most expensive product in my arsenal, but well worth it. The turf roots in my front yard may thank me. :nod: Now, to get it down ASAP, because I'm behind!


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## bf7

Chris LI said:


> @bf7
> 
> BTW, I'll have to stop talking about no PGR, since I pulled the trigger last night on some T-Nex because of you. :lol: I've researched and thought about it for along time, and the color on your lawn put me over the edge. :mrgreen: It's the single most expensive product in my arsenal, but well worth it. The turf roots in my front yard may thank me. :nod: Now, to get it down ASAP, because I'm behind!


Haha awesome man, I appreciate that! I hope it doesn't disappoint. I agree it hurts to bite the bullet and take the dive. But that bottle is going to last you years and then some. For sure will be one of the most expensive products in your garage, BUT one of the least expensive per application, and one of the most rewarding! Not just from the added color but time saved from mowing and reduced stress when being on vacation and I can't mow.


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## Butter

That's cool that you can buy GCF products locally. Maybe when you come to Kansas for SBM you can bring me some RGS.


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## Chris LI

Butter said:


> That's cool that you can buy GCF products locally. Maybe when you come to Kansas for SBM you can bring me some RGS.


Will do! I like supporting small businesses, including Kansas small businesses!


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## Chris LI

I got some lawn time in on Saturday, so I watered in my fertilizer app with some Cal-Flo liquid lime ~24-25 hours after the N app. Rate was a bit higher (~20 oz/M), than the corrective rate of ~15 oz/M. I used my Blue Mule hose end sprayer, which worked great

I washed the Cal-Flo in with some Growth Products 0-0-25, also with the Blue Mule, at the 1/2 lb rate of 23 oz/M.

While that was setting, I connected my poor man's irrigation system, worked out some bugs, and watered everything in. I had to swap out a Rain Bird 32SA on the ain front section, because I still couldn't get it to turn, after taking it apart a couple of times. I have some some MP3000 heads on order to swap out one in the backyard. I'll have to pick up a couple of sprinkler bodies, too.

Sunday was catch up day for the vegetable garden, so I finally got some tomatoes planted.


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## Chris LI

I forgot to add above the I gave a light shot of TSP to the seeded areas by the RV and far edge by the naturalized area in the front.

Today, bag mowed front/back @ 2-5/8" and 2" respectively. I tried a different angle with the striping kit, because I saw another member's change up and liked it (you know who you are :thumbup: ). However, I had an off day with my eyeballs, and executed it poorly.  A storm system is working its way in and I skipped the backpack blower, because it would be a futile effort with all sorts of tree blossoms/debris blowing around.

With the impending rain, I got another app of Compaction Cure down (Rgs & Air-8) at max rates (6 oz & 9 oz, respectively/gallon/M). Hopefully, it will get watered in by Mother Nature tonight. It started drizzling a few minutes after I finished.

Now, I need a cool, non-rainy day to wipe out some clover and a new enemy. I didn't look closely at it, but I think it's Creeping Charlie.

There's a new addition in the first photo. I heard a sound of something being run over in the street, and couldn't bear to let it continue, so I picked it up and found a place to prominently display it, and it will be lit at night by the light over the front door.


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## Chris LI

Mother Nature did not cooperate last night. We only received 0.09" of rain. Hopefully, it was enough to lightly wash in yesterday's app. Tonight, we should receive 0.5-1.0" (~0.6" is the actual prediction on my Rain Gauge app). We'll see.

Planted my last tomato this evening; added a cherry, and now have 8 different plants/varieties total.

Color is deepening from the last N app. I'm hoping the rain will help with this, too.


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## SNOWBOB11

The evergreen shrubs by your stairs are pruned mint. Lawn is looking great too.


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## Chris LI

@SNOWBOB11 
Thanks, Bob! I debated on whether or not to give the Arborvitaes a trim before the summer and decided to hold off. Bagworms beat them up last year (mainly the middle one), and I need good grow in. You can see the bare spots in the middle one.

I looked back on my Tuesday post and forgot the mention that I did pull the trigger on the N-Ext DeThatch. I'll still use some of my stash of blackstrap molasses, but I wanted to give this a shot. I'm really liking the N-Ext Products, especially since time is at a premium for me from April-September, and they've seemed to help. I don't have the time to mix up some of the concoctions, even though I have many of the liquid/dry components. If I have a day with more time, I'll play with them then.

Edit: Received 0.39" of rain from around 6:25 am to 7:15 am today.

Today wasn't a lawn work day, but I needed to decompress after work and walked around and experimented with my camera phone. The generic default settings never seem to bring out the true depth of color. I've mentioned this before and figured out how to get the Samsung to reflect a true color (as close as possible) to what my eye sees. The color kicked from the 18-0-1 app, so I really wanted to capture it. I just changed it to "Pro" mode, without changing any light meter/aperture settings/speed settings/etc. I took two photos (one regular, one Pro), ensuring I captured the same scene with concrete areas, because they affect the exposure. The second (darker photo) of each is very close to what my eye picks up, but needs a teeny tiny bit more contrast. Let me know what you think.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I sharpened the Ninja blade with my drill bit sharpener (the good one; not the plastic Arnold one), balanced it, and checked it with my angle gauge star wheel. The purchase fell through on T-Nex, so I got this...


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> Yesterday, I sharpened the Ninja blade with my drill bit sharpener (the good one; not the plastic Arnold one), balanced it, and checked it with my angle gauge star wheel. The purchase fell through on T-Nex, so I got this...


Let me know how it works. I might use it next year due to time constraints and unpredictability of schedule...T-nex kind of needs to be micro-managed as it just goes right into rebound if you're a few days late. Anuew is supposed to be less abrupt.


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, I sharpened the Ninja blade with my drill bit sharpener (the good one; not the plastic Arnold one), balanced it, and checked it with my angle gauge star wheel. The purchase fell through on T-Nex, so I got this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know how it works. I might use it next year due to time constraints and unpredictability of schedule...T-nex kind of needs to be micro-managed as it just goes right into rebound if you're a few days late. Anuew is supposed to be less abrupt.
Click to expand...

Will do! See below:


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## Chris LI

Well, I just gave myself some work...tracking GDD. I've begun my venture into PGR with Anuew. I swapped out the newer bagging blade for the newly sharpened/balanced Ninja blade, even though there were plenty of Norway Maple seed pods (helicopters). FYI-I made the decision to take the Norway Maple down. It's dead, but doesn't know it yet. It has a split down the trunk with ooze coming out, and I can't take the chance of it coming down in a storm. Next Monday 6/20 is D-Day.

Anyway, this was the first mulch mow of the season 2-5/8" front; 2" back. I stole @Butter 's narrow 30*ish angles and went the opposite direction to make some diamonds. Sun was not at my back for today's stripes, so I took shots of last week's stripes, which were still there. String trimmed/edged before the mow and finally broke out the backpack blower to blow all the debris out and clean up the curblines. The side by the RV still has a little debris left from the power company's tree maintenance crew and Honeysuckle/Bittersweet vines that I tamed with the string trimmer. I may need to throw on the Gator blade to mulch that stuff up.

Now, to the PGR app:

Front (per gallon/M) - 3 gallons total
0.25 oz Anuew
6 oz 18-0-1 Greene Punch 
6 oz 7-0-0 Greene Effect 
5 oz 0-0-2 Microgreene 
1 tbs NIS

Rear (per gallon/M) - 2 gallons total
0.37 oz Anuew (goofed; put .75 total thinking. 
3 gallons)
6 oz 18-0-1 Greene Punch 
6 oz 7-0-0 Greene Effect 
5 oz 0-0-2 Microgreene 
1 tbs NIS

Used visi-flo red nozzle XR110040VS

Since lower HOC in the back, I'm curious how the .37 max rate will work. Usually the lower HOC, lower the rate of Anuew. We'll see. Photos were taken in the Pro mode with no adjustments, which seems very close to what the eye sees (a hair darker and a hair less contrast to my eye). This is still much better than the auto mode on the Samsung Galaxy phone. FYI-I love the second to last photo. It's of my mini reno with Mazama/Beyond/Bewitched. The last photo is too show the regrowth through the tough Red Maple surface roots. I truly believe foliar feeding is the way to go with dense surface tree roots. Hopefully, those gaps will close up a little more.


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## bf7

I've been using Greencast to track GDD. Super easy. After you set up each app, just refresh the page to see where you're at.

https://www.greencastonline.com/growing-degree-days/home

I may be in the minority, but I actually love the color in the first photos (non-Pro setting?)


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## Chris LI

bf7 said:


> I've been using Greencast to track GDD. Super easy. After you set up each app, just refresh the page to see where you're at.
> 
> https://www.greencastonline.com/growing-degree-days/home
> 
> I may be in the minority, but I actually love the color in the first photos (non-Pro setting?)


Thanks so much for the link! I started going down the rabbit hole looking though charts, files, and links, and figured it would be my homework assignment tonight. I've used their soil temp calculator in the past, but forgot about the GDD calculator!

When you say first photos, do you mean first ones of the season or, first of the ones I posted yesterday?


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## bf7

Sure thing, I meant the below where you compared the camera settings. I like the first version of each better even though the second is darker.



Chris LI said:


> Today wasn't a lawn work day, but I needed to decompress after work and walked around and experimented with my camera phone. The generic default settings never seem to bring out the true depth of color. I've mentioned this before and figured out how to get the Samsung to reflect a true color (as close as possible) to what my eye sees. The color kicked from the 18-0-1 app, so I really wanted to capture it. I just changed it to "Pro" mode, without changing any light meter/aperture settings/speed settings/etc. I took two photos (one regular, one Pro), ensuring I captured the same scene with concrete areas, because they affect the exposure. The second (darker photo) of each is very close to what my eye picks up, but needs a teeny tiny bit more contrast. Let me know what you think.


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## Butter

Looks good. I like the narrow angles and the color is very nice! I always struggle to get pics that match what I see. If I think it looks bad the pics look good, if I think it looks good the pics look bad. I tried messing with exposure and never could get it right.


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## bf7

Butter said:


> If I think it looks bad the pics look good, if I think it looks good the pics look bad.


This is so true. Why is that? The best shots always happen by accident!


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## Chris LI

@bf7 
Gotcha. Sorry, long couple of days and I didn't realize you were referring to the feedback I requested. :roll:

I'm actually torn between the two. Color accuracy is closer on the second, but contrast is better on the first. I just want an accurate reproduction of what my eye sees, and don't want to doctor any photos...not to mention having to remember settings each time I break out the phone. The regular auto setting allows too much light in and loses depth of color. Dusk photos look like late afternoon photos, but house/street lights help show how dark the ambient light is. (from previous year's photos). Guess I need to try to adjust only the aperture. Thanks for commenting.


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## Chris LI

No real lawn work last night. I inspected the turf for changes in appearance after the last spray app and noticed the Poa A was beginning to discolor and also a few non-Poa A areas. I started more research specifically on Anuew and found a YT channel that I hadn't seen before (Turf Therapy) and saw what it did to Poa A and Poa T. I wound up using the max rate in the backyard (.37 oz/gal/M), so we'll see what it does to both. Another observation from a few minutes ago, is that the tank mix provided deeper color, with a little more blue hue from the N, Fe and micros. Growth seems to be the same. I might need to wait until after the next mow to evaluate clipping production.

We received only a little rain yesterday morning at home, but at work we had a lot more. Totals from home and my Rain Gauge app were surprisingly identical (0.04"). We have possible T-storms tonight, but I still probably need to water.

Last night, tomatoes got a dose of Root Rukus from GS Plant Foods with a semi-foliar app by watering can, running it off the leaves with three rounds (~2 quarts/plant). 2 oz/gallon x gallons for 8 plants.


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## Chris LI

I observed something yesterday and took another look today. The clover seems to be injured from the last spray app. Not sure if it's Anuew or something else. Anyone experience something similar?

Helped my BIL out on Tuesday with swapping some 10-ply LT tires on the RV. Seeded tri-rye is almost toast like usual this time of year. It takes a beating with summer prep of the RV. I try to be proactive with fertility to prepare. This year, I didn't have Milo and didn't want to water anything in, since he's coming over tomorrow to finish up, so no "Milo Medicine" that I sometimes talk about. Today, it was "Liquid Life Support". Since I don't have N-Ext Greene Pop", I mixed up a 2 quart witches brew and used a 2L Chapin hand pump sprayer with very fine spray: 
• 2 oz 18-0-1 
• 1/2 tsp Dyna Gro Bloom 3-12-6
• 1/2 tsp AS
• 1/2 tsp NIS

I decided not to wet the ground before the onslaught tomorrow, so that's one reason for the foliar app. Reason: it would be a mud bog tomorrow.


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## Chris LI

I had to say goodbye to an old friend today...






It was a difficult decision to make, but my Norway Maple was dead. It just didn't know it yet. I've pruned it over the years, and had a tree company do some major pruning last year or so, but it was already on the decline. The signs had been there for a few years, but it was too far gone with rot into the trunk (my experience from doing tree work earlier in my career), and verified after it came down. I just couldn't take a chance of it coming down and hitting someone or something. It was a great shade tree and in many of my photos, with its glory days a few years ago.


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## Butter

It's always a tough decision taking down mature trees but it looks like it was time for it to go.
I'm interested to see how the bad Poas are affected by Anuew.


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## Chris LI

Butter said:


> I'm interested to see how the bad Poas are affected by Anuew.


There was more info to post yesterday, but I was pretty down about the tree. In short, the bad Poas aren't liking Anuew. I'm not sure yet how much they're affected, but we'll see. I'll elaborate a little more in the next post.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, in addition to the tree coming down, there was some lawn work completed.

I was due for a mow. Even though the tree guys were very neat, there were some small twigs, chain saw chips, and maple helicopters to pick up, so I pulled off the Ninja blade and mulch plug, and swapped it for the Gator blade and bag. Even though it's a mulching blade, it bags very well (packs the bag tight).

String trimmed/edged and bag mowed front at 2-5/8" and back at 2". Anuew appliction rate comparison between front/back (.25/.37) was very noticeable in effect. However, HOC difference is a second variable, so it's not a clear comparison. That being said, both had reduction in clippings. 1/3 rule was mostly adhered to in the front, and definitely adhered to in the back. The backyard appeared to be slightly overregulated. 2-3 days after the PGR app, I saw many of the Poa A plants discolor, and most of those appear to be toast (both in front and in back). We had some warm days and cool nights with minimal precipitation, so everything was a little dry, but the backyard seemed unusually dry. I think it might be due to the higher PGR rate, but I can't prove it. Turf quality in whole the backyard suffered a bit, not just the highly trafficked areas from the tree removal. Triv in the backyard took a big hit, but that's probably dormancy coupled with PGR.

I watered everything heavily yesterday evening after mowing(humidity was very low yesterday @ 39%), and continued this morning. The front bounced back nicely, but the back, not as much.

Today, in the afternoon, once the turf dried out, I went for a knockout punch on the clover, since it was calm enough to spray and the PGR seemed to already have beaten it up some.

I mixed up 1 gallon of Hi-Yield Triclopyr Ester, at the minimum rate of 3/8 oz, with Bonide Super Spreader Sticker (NIS). I had just enough to spot spray, but later second guessed myself, thinking I missed 10'x10' section. I think I did. We'll see.

While I had the sprayer out, 2 oz/gallon Essentria IC3, around the perimeter, flower garden, and all Arborvitaes, evergreens and ground covers/harborage.

Photos from yesterday (adjusting EV level in Pro mode on most of these to correct exposure to what my eye sees).


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> Butter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm interested to see how the bad Poas are affected by Anuew.
> 
> 
> 
> There was more info to post yesterday, but I was pretty down about the tree. In short, the bad Poas aren't liking Anuew. I'm not sure yet how much they're affected, but we'll see. I'll elaborate a little more in the next post.
Click to expand...

Me, too. I've seen no real conclusion from anyone on this who has mentioned it in videos, etc. They all mention it dinging it up badly after 2 apps, but it's unclear what happened after that. Hoping it helps kill Triv over time.

Interesting fact: The legendary Triv/annua herbicide, Velocity (bispyribac sodium--discontinued for turf but still available under another name for rice) is a PGR as well, secondarily...a really poor PGR and one of a different class/MOA than Anuew and T-Nex, but a PGR, nonetheless (it discolors the good turf noticeably and can kill some KBG cultivars).


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## Chris LI

@Green 
That is interesting about Velocity. Last year, I mixed Triclopyr at too high of a rate and took out some triv (actually everything). I just spot sprayed some clover in the triv patch today (at correct low rate). I'm curious as to what the 1, 2 combo will do to the triv.


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## Chris LI

bf7 said:


> Butter said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I think it looks bad the pics look good, if I think it looks good the pics look bad.
> 
> 
> 
> This is so true. Why is that? The best shots always happen by accident!
Click to expand...

@Butter 
@bf7 
Sorry, guys. I completely missed these two comments last week and just noticed them now, while looking back to check the date of my PGR app. I'm not sure what happened. I must have worked too many hours or stayed up too late/lack of sleep. My apologies. :roll:


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## Chris LI

Here's my triv farm and associated Poa A, FF and clover species...a real mess behind the house. Some have bounced back a little from the Anuew and Triclopyr apps, with the heavy watering the last two days and 0.46" of rain last night and today. I've mentioned posting photos, warts and all, but this is ridiculous. :lol: That little gash by the deck box was probably mama raccoon looking for grubs, worms, or insects for the little ones, in a patch of triv. The area has been getting more sun over the last couple of years since the neighbor took a couple of trees down. Now that our Norway Maple is gone, there will be even more sun back there. We'll see what happens with the apps and more sun.


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## situman

Chris LI said:


> To add to my info on liquid products for 2022; in addition to picking up the 18-0-1 Greene Punch, I also picked up 7-0-0 Greene Effect to try, and a restock of MicroGreene 0-0-2, a couple of weeks ago. After seeing good results with the 18-0-1 on the first app at a low rate, I went back to the local nursery on Tuesday, when it was 91*, because I wasn't attempting any lawn stuff, and picked up another gallon of 18-0-1 before it went up in price. The first time I picked up those 3 gallons, the owner asked me about this year's pricing online, and before I could answer, another customer showed up with a tree brach to have him diagnose the issue, so I ducked out to the register. :smile: This time, I got in/out before he could catch up with me. I may go back for some DeThatch, N-Ext.
> 
> I still have some other liquids that I need to get down soon: Growth Products 0-0-25 and liquid lime.


Hi Chris, which local nursery do you get your fertilizer products from? I'm in Long Island as well and would love to just go and pick up lawn stuff locally. Thanks.


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## Baretta

I've read that Nutsedge Killer works on Poa A for some. If you have it on-hand I'd be curious to see if works for you. I can't build the courage to take another photo of my patch. It looks 10x worse than early spring. It's about to change soon.


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## Chris LI

@situman 
I picked up the N-Ext Products from Stables Nursery on Rte 231, northbound, just north of the Southern State Pkwy (behind the first strip mall-through the arch). They have a decent selection of higher end homeowner/prosumer products.

I get my urea 46-0-0 and AS 21-0-0 from All Pro Horticulture on East Gates Ave. in Lindenhurst. They are a great commercial supplier that also has counter sales to the public. They're a good seed supplier and I picked up my tri-rye from them.

FYI-The Growth Products 0-0-25 was a Do My Own purchase.


----------



## Chris LI

Baretta said:


> I've read that Nutsedge Killer works on Poa A for some. If you have it on-hand I'd be curious to see if works for you. I can't build the courage to take another photo of my patch. It looks 10x worse than early spring. It's about to change soon.


Thank you! I don't think I have any on hand, but will check my stash and now have a reference point to look back in my journal. :thumbup:

Good luck! I know it hurts to be in that spot. I lit up the Poa A with Tenacity one year, and I spent a lot of time out there with my Fiskars weed popper. Ugly color, a lot of work, but rewarding in the end. I finally sprayed some Prodiamine this spring and need to do it again around Labor Day.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> Baretta said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've read that Nutsedge Killer works on Poa A for some. If you have it on-hand I'd be curious to see if works for you. I can't build the courage to take another photo of my patch. It looks 10x worse than early spring. It's about to change soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! I don't think I have any on hand, but will check my stash and now have a reference point to look back in my journal. :thumbup:
> 
> Good luck! I know it hurts to be in that spot. I lit up the Poa A with Tenacity one year, and I spent a lot of time out there with my Fiskars weed popper. Ugly color, a lot of work, but rewarding in the end. I finally sprayed some Prodiamine this spring and need to do it again around Labor Day.
Click to expand...

Regarding this sub-discussion about Nutsedge killers and Poa:

Sulfentrazone apparently has Poa (Triv and annua) killing properties...some is even labeled accordingly. I have not tried it for this yet. My one or two experiences with Sulfentrazone last year confirm that it can really burn turf up. I think it's going to take practice to use. I've seen lawn companies turn turf brown as well, using Solitaire (Sulfentrazone/Quinclorac).

And Sulfosulfuron (the one I've used a decent amount to target Triv with good success) is also known to kill Nutsedge. Ironically, I find this one safer on cool season turf if used carefully.

7,000 posts...yikes!


----------



## situman

Chris LI said:


> @situman
> I picked up the N-Ext Products from Stables Nursery on Rte 231, northbound, just north of the Southern State Pkwy (behind the first strip mall-through the arch). They have a decent selection of higher end homeowner/prosumer products.
> 
> I get my urea 46-0-0 and AS 21-0-0 from All Pro Horticulture on East Gates Ave. in Lindenhurst. They are a great commercial supplier that also has counter sales to the public. They're a good seed supplier and I picked up my tri-rye from them.
> 
> FYI-The Growth Products 0-0-25 was a Do My Own purchase.


Thanks! I'm getting my organic ferts from Nassausuffolk turf this yr to try. Healthygrow chicken poop stuff to see how the lawn reacts. Milo stunk for 2 weeks so never again. I do hate how I can only pick up stuff when they arent bz cuz they service mainly lawn pros. Good to have a few other places to get stuff from.


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## Chris LI

@situman 
The guys at N-S Turf are good guys, too. I haven't bought from them at work for quite awhile, so I need to revisit that. Yeah, I can see your frustration. The lawn pros are their bread and butter, so they kind of have to come first. However, it's good that they sell to the public, too.


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## Chris LI

Got lemons? Make lemonade. That's what I did. BIL took out the RV for the first camping trip of the season, and caused a little carnage. I'll post the lemonade photos and think about the putting the lemons up.  Happy first weekend of the Summer! HOC front 2-5/8"; HOC backyard 2". I kept the Gator on and put the mulch plug in.


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## Chris LI

Watered front two zones after work yesterday, and watered one back zone and a truncated second zone (still need to repair after stump grinding damage) today, before work.


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## Wile

That looks fantastic! Love when people can pull off the organized chaos look without it looking like an overgrown jungle or an afterthought. That's not a skill I have. Well done!


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## Chris LI

@Wile 
Thank you! The main front garden in the first photo is more organized, while the far perimeter town land in the second photo is more chaos. :lol:


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## Chris LI

I thought today would be more carnage with the return of the RV and 0.65" of rain, but my BIL spared the lawn and parked the RV straddling the hellstrip with the passenger side wheels on the sidewalk. Whew!

A few years ago, he buried it up to the axle coming back in a 3" deluge. I know some folks can't help but looking at train wrecks, so I think it's back in my journal somewhere, if you really are curious. :spiteful:


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## Chris LI

RV pulled back into it's usual location with minimal damage.

Unexpected 12-hour day at work, so I missed my mow/N/Fe/PGR app. Will try again tomorrow.


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## Baretta

Speaking of wheels. When are you going to let the Volvo out of the cage? Future hand me down to the kids? Lawn looks dialed in. :thumbsup:


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## Chris LI

@Green 
Thanks for the herbicide suggestions for the triv. I'll keep them in mind and now have a place to reference them when considering options.

How is the turf holding up by you will summer temps and water requirements? It's beginning to get a bit dry here.


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## Chris LI

Baretta said:


> Speaking of wheels. When are you going to let the Volvo out of the cage? Future hand me down to the kids? Lawn looks dialed in. :thumbsup:


Thanks! I had an inquiry a few years ago but was really busy at work and didn't have time to sell it. They're pretty much a cult following, so I don't want to just give it to someone who'll send it to the crusher for scrap $. Maybe my son will be interested, but he wants a project car with more HP and "cooler".


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## Chris LI

Family has been in town, I've been up to my eyeballs in work, and was too exhausted to mow and spray a fertilizer/PGR cocktail. I just hit the max window on the PGR interval and need to get it down...maybe, tomorrow morning before work. It's been very warm and humid with spotty showers. 86* the last few days. 0.01" precipitation yesterday evening in a quick burst.

Just arrived today...



Pellet Pro should be here Tuesday or Wednesday.


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## situman

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Baretta said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've read that Nutsedge Killer works on Poa A for some. If you have it on-hand I'd be curious to see if works for you. I can't build the courage to take another photo of my patch. It looks 10x worse than early spring. It's about to change soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! I don't think I have any on hand, but will check my stash and now have a reference point to look back in my journal. :thumbup:
> 
> Good luck! I know it hurts to be in that spot. I lit up the Poa A with Tenacity one year, and I spent a lot of time out there with my Fiskars weed popper. Ugly color, a lot of work, but rewarding in the end. I finally sprayed some Prodiamine this spring and need to do it again around Labor Day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Regarding this sub-discussion about Nutsedge killers and Poa:
> 
> Sulfentrazone apparently has Poa (Triv and annua) killing properties...some is even labeled accordingly. I have not tried it for this yet. My one or two experiences with Sulfentrazone last year confirm that it can really burn turf up. I think it's going to take practice to use. I've seen lawn companies turn turf brown as well, using Solitaire (Sulfentrazone/Quinclorac).
> 
> And Sulfosulfuron (the one I've used a decent amount to target Triv with good success) is also known to kill Nutsedge. Ironically, I find this one safer on cool season turf if used carefully.
> 
> 7,000 posts...yikes!
Click to expand...

So basically t-zone? Wonder if it will be more effective if Tenacity is added to it.


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## Green

situman said:


> So basically t-zone? Wonder if it will be more effective if Tenacity is added to it.


Speaking of T-Zone...

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=36567

Personally, I've never tried T-Zone. I don't use a ton of broadleaf post herbicides, and like Chris, tend to stick to simple (e.g. single chemical apps), basic, cost-effective stuff when I do. But I enjoy reading others' experiences and occasionally something will compel me to try something new.


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## Chris LI

@Green 
Thanks! I'll be checking that out.

Today, I got my trim/edge/blow/mow/blow in today, but didn't have time for a spray app, so I watered the main front before work. HOC 2-5/8" front and 2" back with same Gator blade and mulch plug. I'm out of my PGR window, so I'm seeing some rebound in front, but not backyard, due to the max rate. I'll keep scouting and decide if I should go with lowest rate in back or skip PGR entirely, this time around. I didn't have time to get my wavy flag pattern in, but refreshed my stripes from last week, attempting to burn them in to celebrate the 4th of July.

It's starting to get dry and we could definitely use the predicted rain on Tuesday. I put some LDS that hopefully, the TR will help with. The triv is either dormant or toast, but not assuming the latter. It seems to find a way to survive. I threw in the veggie garden for reference. The plants are starting to shoot up.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, my Pellet Pro arrived and was quickly put to use. It's a bit pricey, but build quality is good. I loaded it with TR and 80-90% of the yard with my 3/4" hose. My street water pressure doesn't do the Cloudburst nozzle justice. Man, that thing puts out a lot of water like the blue rain shower head nozzle does! I tried the Rainbow nozzle I picked up too, and it puts out a lower volume, but a little better pressure. I also tried a red plastic fire hose nozzle and an Underhill Turbo Shift turf/fire hose style nozzle. Overall, I mainly used the Cloudburst nozzle and used the others to reach areas the 100' hose couldn't reach. A 3/4" hose is a must, if you want any decent pressure. At first, it seemed to take forever for the pellet to show any decrease in size, but then I burned 2/3 of it by the end of the approximately 4,500 sq ft, so I over applied. I watered most of it in heavily afterwards.

Later, I made my big summer N drop with the $5 bag of 10-0-2 @ .4-.45 lbs SRN/M. I say that a bit tongue and cheek because it's my first granular drop this season, with a whopping amount of N. :lol: I finished with a cocktail of Double Dark Plus with PGR and NIS.

Per gallon/M:
10 oz 18-0-1 Greene Punch (<16 oz DD+ rate)
6 oz 0-0-2 Microgreene 
6 oz 7-0-0 Greene Effect
1 tsp NIS

Front received same rate of Anuew as the first app (.25 oz/gallon/M), but reduced the backyard to minimum rate (.18 oz/gallon/M).

Watering everything in tonight. Not sure if triv went dormant or is toast, but looks more like toast (probably just dormant). Other desirable grasses have greened up since Saturday's photos (3rd to last). FYI-The 2nd to last photo shows turf damage from logs landing during tree removal.

I liked the Pellet Pro so much, I ordered the last 3-pack of H20 Maximizer on Amazon today. I hope to use it to hold water after using the TR to get water to the root zone (especially in compacted and surface tree roots areas). I'm not sure if that's the proper technique to use with the two products, but I'm still doing some homework. I'm happy to hear other's opinions and experiences. I used more TR in drought prone/compacted areas.


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## Chris LI

Note to self:

Reduce rates of Double Dark combo, especially in the cocktail with N (GreenePunch, in this case), PGR, and NIS. This is the second time the grass has looked slightly brownish/blackish a day or two after application (this is after watering it in a day later). The combo with NIS is very quick and effective, response wise, and probably needs lower rates than suggested by N-Ext.


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## Green

Chris,

Sorry to hear about the Maple, but keep up the fantastic turf micro-dose fertilization program. It seems to be working well and is hopefully a good fit in terms of your needs and priorities.

Are the NExt and other liquid fertilizer products any more affordable locally since you don't have to ship it?

Trying to keep up...so many journals and I've responded to very few so far. You've come out of hibernation in a big way the last couple of months.

By the way: Do you find the Anuew to not be abrupt with rebound? That's one of the sales claims. Following your experiences...


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Are the NExt and other liquid fertilizer products any more affordable locally since you don't have to ship it?
> 
> Trying to keep up...so many journals and I've responded to very few so far. You've come out of hibernation in a big way the last couple of months.
> 
> By the way: Do you find the Anuew to not be abrupt with rebound? That's one of the sales claims. Following your experiences...


Yes, the N-Ext Products are a little cheaper locally, especially since the online prices went up slightly this year with inflation, and the local guy hadn't changed his prices at the times I picked some up. He was starting to ask me the same thing and another customer came up with a question about his ailing shrub, and I dodged the question. The nice thing picking it up locally, is that I could pick up a single gallon at slightly less than the 4-Pack unit price (and support a local small business). I went back a couple of times; once to pick up more 18-0-1 and then for some DeThatch. I have an adequate supply of blackstrap molasses, but wanted to try John Perry's chemistry.

Thanks! This winter was rough and my attention was caught with another hobby (wet shaving).

Anuew is the only PGR that I've tried, so I can't make a direct comparison to another PGR. That being said, it seems like a soft rebound. I was roughly 3-4 days overdue and I noticed the front bounce back some, but the back was still stunted due to the max rate applied the first time. I used the same rate on the front and minimal rate on the backyard, for the second app. I meant to calculate the GDD I went over, before responding to you, but I forgot. I'll have to get you that number.


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## Chris LI

@Green 
I missed by a mile on my days overdue for PGR. It was 8 days. I should have applied on 6/30, but actually applied on 7/7 at 550 GDD. Window is 280-350 at fairway/rough HOC.

Conclusion: Anuew is pretty forgiving regarding rebound.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> @Green
> I missed by a mile on my days overdue for PGR. It was 8 days. I should have applied on 6/30, but actually applied on 7/7 at 550 GDD. Window is 280-350 at fairway/rough HOC.
> 
> Conclusion: Anuew is pretty forgiving regarding rebound.


That matches what I've heard. T-Nex is abrupt if you go about 4 days beyond. And PGR rebound phase supposedly is equal in duration to suppression, so it matters how the AI behaves. Lol..."AI behaves" has a double meaning.

I've actually developed a timed microdosing method to avoid such a pronounced rebound phase when ending a PGR program...and to accomplish the elusive soft landing.

But this is good news...if not just in case a reapplication can't be timed optimally.

You didn't buy the Anuew locally, too...? So jealous of the stuff you have available locally, like NExt, at prices equal or better than with shipping. I should use Anuew next year despite the pricing of buying a whole packet at once, since I will have less time for timing reapplications properly.


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## Chris LI

@Green 
I purchased Anuew through DoMyOwn. I stumbled upon the N-Ext Products at my local nursery (Stables Gardens). He has an array of plants, fertilizers, and supplies that are not stocked in the big box stores. Maybe try calling some of the nurseries in your area, you just might get lucky. Some local turf suppliers in your are might sell to the public at their counter. Site One just bought out All Pro Horticulture, my big supplier at work, but I believe they still sell to the public. I expect they will be shifting to more Lesco products, but they're still offering most/all of their usual lines of products.


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## situman

@Chris How are you dealing with the drought? The lawns around here are starting to look mighty crispy. Supposed to have a thunderstorm tonight, but I highly doubt we will get anything. We were supposed to get rain on Monday or something but all we got was a sneeze.

I'm about to give up irrigating it. It's jsut impossible to keep up with the dryness and high heat without help from the rain.


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## Chris LI

situman said:


> @Chris How are you dealing with the drought? The lawns around here are starting to look mighty crispy. Supposed to have a thunderstorm tonight, but I highly doubt we will get anything. We were supposed to get rain on Monday or something but all we got was a sneeze.
> 
> I'm about to give up irrigating it. It's jsut impossible to keep up with the dryness and high heat without help from the rain.


Don't give up on irrigating yet! Non-irrigated lawns have gone dormant, but if you have been watering, step it up. Humidity is already high for promoting fungus, so night watering won't really add to it, especially since we are expecting rain. I've been watering heavy for the last two days and applied some wetting agent tonight (H20 Maximizer), as it got dark. It's getting watered in now.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I touched up the edges of the Ninja blade with a hand file and swapped it onto the mower. Trimmed and edged with the string trimmer, before mulch mowing front and back at 2-5/8" and 2" respectively. PGR seemed to halt it in its tracks, due to the lack of rain. Watered heavy throughout most of the yard, including DIY system, hose end sprinkler, and hand watering.

Today, pounded it with more water and then broke out the Pellet Pro to try H20 Maximizer for the first time. The TR seems to have helped to move water and retain a little, so my plan was to follow up with the H20 Maximizer to now hold water. I really like that thing with the Cloudburst nozzle. I swapped in the Underhill Turbo Shift nozzle to reach areas out of range of the hose.

These photos were taken yesterday and the color looked slightly better today. It's been very dry and Non-irrigated lawns are completely dormant, which is par for the course, this time of year. Grass tends to burnout the week after the 4th (in my area), from my decades of experience.

This is a big photo dump, but I wanted to capture the state of the lawn and catch everything in bloom. Hydrangea is nearing full bloom and the Hostas finally bloomed. They don't last too long, so I try to enjoy them as much as I can, while they last.


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## bf7

Love the blue hydrangeas. Funny, I planted one of those variable-color big leafs in potting soil which I believe is mostly peat moss (extremely acidic), but the flowers turned up pink. I did get something called a "blue entranchess" hydrangea this year that I'm hoping will stay blue.

Lawn is holding up great too.


----------



## situman

Chris LI said:


> situman said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Chris How are you dealing with the drought? The lawns around here are starting to look mighty crispy. Supposed to have a thunderstorm tonight, but I highly doubt we will get anything. We were supposed to get rain on Monday or something but all we got was a sneeze.
> 
> I'm about to give up irrigating it. It's jsut impossible to keep up with the dryness and high heat without help from the rain.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't give up on irrigating yet! Non-irrigated lawns have gone dormant, but if you have been watering, step it up. Humidity is already high for promoting fungus, so night watering won't really add to it, especially since we are expecting rain. I've been watering heavy for the last two days and applied some wetting agent tonight (H20 Maximizer), as it got dark. It's getting watered in now.
Click to expand...

The high humidity certainly helps with moisture retention these last 2 days.


----------



## Chris LI

bf7 said:


> Love the blue hydrangeas. Funny, I planted one of those variable-color big leafs in potting soil which I believe is mostly peat moss (extremely acidic), but the flowers turned up pink. I did get something called a "blue entranchess" hydrangea this year that I'm hoping will stay blue.
> 
> Lawn is holding up great too.


It's ironic you mention your "litmus test" story about the hydrangea colors. My MIL lives with us and always wanted me to turn them pink, so I used to sprinkle granular lime around the base of that hydrangea and another one nearby (which I think I killed with an over application of lime). :roll: Since that episode a few years ago, I've been gun-shy of applying anymore lime, especially since half of them are still pink. To keep them blue, you can try Espoma Soil Acidifier or Espoma Holly Tone. They're based in NJ and common around my area, and the Holly Tone is a very popular product. Even though you're in western PA, you might come across them in local nurseries and they're stocked by Lowe's.

In case you only need a little, here's some smaller bags:

Espoma Organic Soil Acidifier 6 Lb. https://a.co/d/9vhrFoo
Organic Holly-Tone Evergreen and Azalea Food https://a.co/d/0yKbHZl

Thanks! Lots of water and the PGR cocktail seem to be helping. Rain arrived today. :yahoo: Details to come.


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## Chris LI

@situman 
Humidity went to 100% today with rainfall. Did you receive any?


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I continued heavy watering to make sure I reduced drought stress. Summer is in full swing...

I snapped this around bedtime last night and it was still 74* out. We're not cooking as bad as many of you out there are, but it's not smooth sailing, either.

The tomatoes got a root drench with K4Less Extreme Blend.

Today, on the way home from work, I caught up with a T-storm that dumped a needed 0.27" of rain in less than an hour. My strategic watering with TR and H20 Maximizer apps will hopefully get water to where I need it and keep it there.

I'm curious to hear how everyone in the tri-state area+ did with precipitation.


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## situman

Chris LI said:


> @situman
> Humidity went to 100% today with rainfall. Did you receive any?


Got the humidity only


----------



## Chris LI

situman said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> @situman
> Humidity went to 100% today with rainfall. Did you receive any?
> 
> 
> 
> Got the humidity only
Click to expand...

That stinks!


----------



## bf7

Chris LI said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Love the blue hydrangeas. Funny, I planted one of those variable-color big leafs in potting soil which I believe is mostly peat moss (extremely acidic), but the flowers turned up pink. I did get something called a "blue entranchess" hydrangea this year that I'm hoping will stay blue.
> 
> Lawn is holding up great too.
> 
> 
> 
> It's ironic you mention your "litmus test" story about the hydrangea colors. My MIL lives with us and always wanted me to turn them pink, so I used to sprinkle granular lime around the base of that hydrangea and another one nearby (which I think I killed with an over application of lime). :roll: Since that episode a few years ago, I've been gun-shy of applying anymore lime, especially since half of them are still pink. To keep them blue, you can try Espoma Soil Acidifier or Espoma Holly Tone. They're based in NJ and common around my area, and the Holly Tone is a very popular product. Even though you're in western PA, you might come across them in local nurseries and they're stocked by Lowe's.
> 
> In case you only need a little, here's some smaller bags:
> 
> Espoma Organic Soil Acidifier 6 Lb. https://a.co/d/9vhrFoo
> Organic Holly-Tone Evergreen and Azalea Food https://a.co/d/0yKbHZl
> 
> Thanks! Lots of water and the PGR cocktail seem to be helping. Rain arrived today. :yahoo: Details to come.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I've seen the acidifier product at the local nurseries. I think I'm going to try it out. I have too many pink / red flowers and would like to see something different.


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## Chris LI

Long, hectic day at work, so I decompressed by picking some clover blossoms to lift up stolons, and rip them out. :mrgreen:

I'm trying to plan my mid-end of summer strategy. My lawn is holding up with the extra water, PGR/N cocktail, and wetting agents.

I tend to raise HOC (for the front, usually) for the last week of July and first two weeks of August. However, temperatures/rain have been relatively average, so I may opt to ride it out, because the 2-5/8" is a good balance of density and color. The last mow was on an 8 day interval, and I stayed within the 1/3 rule. I might need to wait 2-3 weeks, for it to grow out, to go one notch higher on HOC. Zoysia is too prevalent from my mistake in previous years with too low of a HOC and extreme summer, so it's kind of past keeping it in check. A reno is not in the picture, so I'm going to ride it out as best as I can. I'm also debating on skipping the next app of PGR, but not sure how that will play into pros and cons. I've probably skimped on N for the spring/summer (estimated <1 lb) and have some corn gluten I could drop, but will probably save that for the end of August, and may spray a couple light apps of N.

Any suggestions are appreciated.


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## Green

@Chris LI

You have a lot of tools available for fertilization. I think from the outside perspective, it's pretty simple...

How much granular N have you applied in 2022, and how much foliar (which may be tougher to quantify)? And how do these totals compare to your goal amount for the time period based on your previous experience?

If you're below average and want to add more, and think there's justification to do so, will the current weather pattern allow you to do it? If not, what is the soonest that it would reasonably allow you to?

Some things just may not be practical to devote the time to...like trying to make up a >0.5 N deficit in July via foliar-only apps that are 0.1 lb or less per app!


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## Chris LI

@Green 
I agree. I'm just torn on how much granular N I should be applying now, since we should be dialing back in July, to not push growth during summer stress. I believe a light app of organic N might be helpful (0.25 lbs/M), but wanted to be careful. I'll be adding some light foliar apps for a bit while longer. As of now I'm at roughly:

1.2-1.25 lbs N front
0.95-1.0 lbs N back

0.4-0.45 lbs N of the total was recently applied with the 10-0-2. I'm waiting to see what it does. Color is improving, so it may have kicked a little bit.

Can I push a little more with using PGR?


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday, I mulch mowed at the same HOC on a 5-day interval. I had a opportunity to mow and didn't want to gamble with a mow today before work and possibility of rain. Rain is predicted tomorrow and heatwave Tuesday-Saturday of next week, so I wanted the lawn to recover and hold off on mowing for a bit. I took off .5-.75" on the front and .25-.5" on the backyard. Color/density is good, with the light green of the Zoysia standing out in the main front and RV side front. Small dead patches are toasted Poa A, which is mainly along the stepping stones. Triv farm is still crispy for the most part. Some started to come back from dormancy, a little bit, because the sprinkler head stuck in that direction, the last time I watered, and the "nice" grass didn't get as much coverage.  Photos to compare after the predicted heatwave. I'll probably make the decision whether or not to raise HOC, after it shakes out.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> @Green
> I agree. I'm just torn on how much granular N I should be applying now, since we should be dialing back in July, to not push growth during summer stress. I believe a light app of organic N might be helpful (0.25 lbs/M), but wanted to be careful. I'll be adding some light foliar apps for a bit while longer. As of now I'm at roughly:
> 
> 1.2-1.25 lbs N front
> 0.95-1.0 lbs N back
> 
> 0.4-0.45 lbs N of the total was recently applied with the 10-0-2. I'm waiting to see what it does. Color is improving, so it may have kicked a little bit.
> 
> Can I push a little more with using PGR?


Those totals are excellent. If you think you need more, I like the 0.15-0.25 organic idea after the heat wave. I'm intentionally under 1.0 lb for this Spring for the most part (0.87 in some areas), and it's going well here too, generally, for comparison.


----------



## Chris LI

@Green 
Thanks for the support! I remember pouring on the Milo in the past, and it was a bit too much, so I've slightly over compensated by going on the light side in the summer, because my P was good, but K was low. If I didn't have corn gluten, I would probably consider dropping one bag over the whole yard (~5k). We'll see what this week brings and I'll consider another small granular drop.


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## Chris LI

I'm in the same boat as @JerseyGreens . We're about to get cooked like everyone in the interior of the country. Mother Nature is playing games with us over the last two days. T-storms all over the tri-state area, but we kept getting missed. Friends of us lost a tree in the storms today (15 miles away as the crow flies), so they got rain, but not us. I'll look at the silver lining that we had no storm damage, yet.

Color has darkened a bit and density is good for this time of year. I think I'm near the sweet spot for just enough growth, color and density, without pushing it too much. 10-0-2 seems to be kicking in. To echo several others, PGR is a game changer. Even though I don't go reel low, it has helped me because I'm so busy at work, I sometimes have a hard time keeping up and have tended to violate the 1/3 more often than not. This year has been completely different with reasonable amounts of N and PGR (and more Fe/micros). Typically, the last two weeks of July and first two weeks of August are the hardest of the summer. We've also had reasonable temperatures so far, even though we've had minimal precipitation. Stepping up my game with wetting agents has also helped. Bracing for the real test now. I'm not planning to mow for at least a week, and might raise HOC for the next mow. We'll see.


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## Chris LI

I forgot to add that as I picked up a piece of litter in my front yard today, I found a small patch of bentgrass. :evil:


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> I forgot to add that as I picked up a piece of litter in my front yard today, I found a small patch of bentgrass. :evil:


I found one a couple of days ago, too. Only because a squirrel or something dug into it. I remember seeing it last year, too, in about the same area. I thought I killed it with Meso, but maybe it was too late. Pulled some of it and marked it. Thanks for the "reminder"!

Your lawn looks good in the front. I suppose you could have more success pushing N because of the PGR, but there is also possible growth stagnation aiding disease development when using that. That, and we are coming into the period where heat-induced chlorosis ramps up. It might all kind of revert to the mean.


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## Chris LI

@Green 
Thanks! I'll be monitoring over the next week and go from there.


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## Chris LI

Watered remaining areas today. Front probably could have used more water today, but there's too much disease pressure to take that gamble.


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## Chris LI

Came home from work today to find 4 recycling can lids tossed on the small hellstrip, after pickup day today. Saw some wilting already, which was not a surprise. Damage wasn't as bad as I expected for several hours covered. It reminds me of the tarp burn last year when we took the tarp off the RV roof, and took 1/2 hour to hour to roll up. This area wasn't watered yesterday or today, and I wasn't going to water because humidity eased slightly and was 65% when I got home. However, I needed to cool the roots after exactly 90* for yesterday and today, so I hand watered heavily for 5 minutes. Photo to document damage.


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## Chris LI

Damage was done from the lids, just as I knew was going to happen. You can see the four distinct circles. I've spent a little extra time/effort to perk up this section with the heat/humidity slamming us. Oh well, it's just grass, right?



LDS along dripline of the cedar/juniper has been remediated with wetting agent(s) and extra water.

We were very fortunate to receive 0.31" of rain from T-storms today, and I decided that since the turf was already wet, I would apply some more wetting agent/water and go down swinging during this heatwave. So far 90*, 90*, 86* for the last 3 days. It may not sound very high compared to other locations/temps, but relative humidity during the day has been around 75% and at night 95%+. Prediction is similar for tomorrow and even hotter this weekend. I had a solid 1/3 left of a H20 Maximizer pellet, and used most of it up over 4M. Before going to town with the Pellet Pro, I picked a bunch of Oxalis, Crate Myrtle seedlings and a few smaller Crabgrass plants. I love the Pellet Pro, and it's well worth the cost. I'm hoping that I don't see much more breakthrough from my PreM. Watering everything in heavily tonight, and need to get down some Azoxy very soon, with fungus activity becoming noticeable.


----------



## Chris LI

Still toasty here. Hi/low temps are in orange.

Yesterday's info:


Recycling can lid burn spots are worse, as expected.



Today's info:


I watered heavily late last night and late tonight.


----------



## situman

Just had a heavy downpour here. Why cant we just have normal steady light rain for like 2 days so my soil can absorb it instead of it running off? Imagine drinking from a firehose.


----------



## Chris LI

situman said:


> Just had a heavy downpour here. Why cant we just have normal steady light rain for like 2 days so my soil can absorb it instead of it running off? Imagine drinking from a firehose.


Now we're trading places. Nope, none for me. Zip, zero, zilch! I've been watering, so the soil should be ready to accept any rain. Hopefully, the downpour you got will act as the same, for the next band on the radar, we should be receiving later on today. 🤞


----------



## Chris LI

Got only a spritz of rain, just enough to wet the foliage and encourage fungus, so I watered some of the back and the zone by the RV late tonight. Lawn is out of regulation and rebounding softly, with hydration and the organic N. I might raise HOC for the next mow, but not even sure when that will occur. Temps eased off with peak at 80*, during mid-morning, and dropping to 76* in earlyafternoon. After rain spritz in mid-afternoon, temps bounced back to a swampy 79* at 95% RH.

Starting to see some friends show up to the party: bentgrass now also in backyard, more Crabgrass and Oxalis, yellow Nutsedge, Nimblewill, other grassy weeds, etc. I spent some time pulling them (yes, I know about not pulling sedge, but I did it anyway-no sign of nutlets in the baby sedge).


----------



## situman

Got a picture of bentgrass? I have something with stolons and blades quite thick too. I threw it away and didnt take pics. It doesnt look like triv since its pretty dark in color.


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## M32075

I must say Chris considering the weather we been having on Long island the lawn looks really nice. The lack of rain scorching heat and lack of cloud cover has been a real challenge. My backyard zoysia is absolutely toasted from lack of rain and zero irrigation my front lawn I can't even talk about I'll just say triv grass and leave it at that


----------



## Chris LI

situman said:


> Got a picture of bentgrass? I have something with stolons and blades quite thick too. I threw it away and didnt take pics. It doesnt look like triv since its pretty dark in color.


If you look at the photos below, you will see a patch in the center. I didn't have a photo in my phone, so I took one at night. Let me know if you want a daytime photo, for better color representation. I won't be able to get one tomorrow, but will try Thursday, if needed. The shape originally reminded me of the shape of Alaska with the tail running down the Pacific coast(minus the Aleutian Islands). A better comparison would be a traditional diamond-shaped kite with tail down to the right. Bentgrass is very stemmy at regular (higher) HOCs, and has several fine bladed leaves off of stems. For non-reel mowed turf, it looks funny. At reel mowed HOCs, it is very dense and thus desirable on GCs. Also, Bentgrass tends to have a color similar to Colorado Blue Spruces, and sticks out from dark kbg cultivars. Color is similar to the Zoysia in the background, with longer, thicker, spear-shaped tips. I first noticed this patch and one in the backyard when the lawn was under stress from heat/drought. It stuck out even more. I'll get to killing it hopefully around Labor Day with a Tenacity spot spray, so the kbg can fill in during the fall. I hope this helps.


----------



## Chris LI

M32075 said:


> I must say Chris considering the weather we been having on Long island the lawn looks really nice. The lack of rain scorching heat and lack of cloud cover has been a real challenge. My backyard zoysia is absolutely toasted from lack of rain and zero irrigation my front lawn I can't even talk about I'll just say triv grass and leave it at that


Thanks for the compliment! I've tried to be more proactive this year with watering, aggressive wetting agent application, PGR (new for me, this year), and reasonable N application (lower-mostly foliar), to keep good color without excessive topgrowth, which could stress the lawn (and staying within the 1/3 rule almost all of the time). For the heat/drought, the Underhill products along with heavy watering have really helped. I haven't done an irrigation audit with tuna cans (which I should do), but estimate each area received ~0.5" on average (2-3 hours per DIY zone/hose end sprinkler), probably 3-4 times per week. I'm afraid to see the next SCWA bill. I just paid this one, so it'll be awhile. :lol:

Edit: An added benefit of PGR is the time-saving component. Since I'm mowing less, and not stressing about finding time to mow, I've been able to focus on watering, and the lawn isn't having to recover from the "injury" caused from regular mowing during the stress periods of heat/drought.


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## situman

Thanks for the pic. Dont think thats what i have. Might be goosegrass. Guuuh.


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## Chris LI

situman said:


> Thanks for the pic. Dont think thats what i have. Might be goosegrass. Guuuh.


Goosegrass grows low and wide (kind of silvery/white star shaped in the center), and is very flat, so it tolerates a low HOC, and is PITA on golf courses. It smothers the surrounding turf like a dandelion does. It's an annual, so if you pull up the edges of the leaves and rip it out by hand (or use a weed popper) you can save the surrounding turf, even if you don't get the root. Spring PreM is the trick, just like for crabgrass.


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## nikmasteed

Any recovery yet from those recycling can lids? Always fun huh


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## Chris LI

nikmasteed said:


> Any recovery yet from those recycling can lids? Always fun huh


Unfortunately, not. They're worse. Real crispy and the crowns might be dead. Time will tell if I will be reseeding. I don't have any TTTF seed left, so it will be kbg/prg.

The tree ring in the background really recovered with wetting agents and extra water. The hellstrip had the same and you can see the non-burnt areas are decent, considering the hellstrip gets cooked next to the sunny asphalt.

Lawn is completely out of regulation and overdue for a mow. I will definitely be increasing HOC for the next mow.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, 0.05" of rain before morning...it may have helped slightly. Hi was 89* and very humid (when I got home, it was 83* with 75% rel humidity, and heat index of 90*). I'm sure the heat index when it was 89*, was close to 100*. Ripe conditions for fungus.

Today, 86* was the high, and the humidity was slightly less. I will try to mow tomorrow, after work.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> nikmasteed said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any recovery yet from those recycling can lids? Always fun huh
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, not. They're worse. Real crispy and the crowns might be dead. Time will tell if I will be reseeding. I don't have any TTTF seed left, so it will be kbg/prg.
> 
> The tree ring in the background really recovered with wetting agents and extra water. The hellstrip had the same and you can see the non-burnt areas are decent, considering the hellstrip gets cooked next to the sunny asphalt.
> 
> Lawn is completely out of regulation and overdue for a mow. I will definitely be increasing HOC for the next mow.
Click to expand...

Hopefully it's not dead. This is the one thing I appreciate about my area switching to those large bins with built-in covers a few years ago. I was paranoid about the covers being thrown on the lawn during hot days and freezing days.

If it turns out to be dead: In addition to reseeding if needed, you could try plugging to better match what you have (since you said you don't have TTTF seed)...yes, with TTTF. I've done it. Plugging works, and your donor spot can fill back in if you pick the proper spot to take from, based on the grass's growth habit (basically, you want to take from an overly dense area with the same grass and use a tool that gives a clean cut and doesn't damage any of the surrounding grass). Really, it's nothing more than making an extra wide aeration hole that you then fill in with the extra soil. If you think of it that way, it's not so bad.


----------



## Chris LI

@Green 
Thanks! I hadn't considered plugging with TTTF, but just might have to give it a try.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> @Green
> Thanks! I hadn't considered plugging with TTTF, but just might have to give it a try.


You're welcome. And I just updated/edited that post. See my POV I added.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Green
> Thanks! I hadn't considered plugging with TTTF, but just might have to give it a try.
> 
> 
> 
> Youre welcome. And I just updated/edited that post. See my POV I added.
Click to expand...

Gotcha! I keep looking at my Pro Plugger that I haven't used in awhile. It might be coming out of stasis around Labor Day.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Green
> Thanks! I hadn't considered plugging with TTTF, but just might have to give it a try.
> 
> 
> 
> Youre welcome. And I just updated/edited that post. See my POV I added.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Gotcha! I keep looking at my Pro Plugger that I haven't used in awhile. It might be coming out of stasis around Labor Day.
Click to expand...

There you go, just in case you need it! Did any Zoysia get possibly killed, or was there none in that area?


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> Youre welcome. And I just updated/edited that post. See my POV I added.
> 
> 
> 
> Gotcha! I keep looking at my Pro Plugger that I haven't used in awhile. It might be coming out of stasis around Labor Day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There you go, just in case you need it! Did any Zoysia get possibly killed, or was there none in that area?
Click to expand...

Nope. No "good" collateral damage. No Zoysia on the short hellstrip, but plenty behind it on the other side of the sidewalk, doing very well.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, the weather changed slightly. Another overnight sprinkle from Fri-Sat helped minimally (0.06"). Wind picked up and changed direction from the north, but it wasn't the "cool" Candian air we usually get, with the high at 88*. However, it was much drier and much appreciated!

I got home from work late, and only had time for a mulch mow (no trim, edge, blow), so it's not up to my usual standards. I started at a little before 7 pm, when it was still 86*, but at 44% relative humidity, it was very tolerable (86* heat index). Raised front HOC to 3" and put the Ninja blade to work. Grass was thick and tall on the main front, but stayed within the 1/3 rule with the HOC change, since I last mowed 2 weeks ago. I haven't watered in several days, so the wetting agents have really helped. Front by RV was dry and I didn't take much off. More on that later.

Backyard mow was similar with growth patterns. Areas I pounded water are lush and healthy. I kept HOC at 2" and only slightly violated the 1/3 rule in a couple of areas under the trees, while taking barely any off in others.

I pulled a few crabgrass and oxalis plants as I mowed, but there weren't too many. Even though humidity was low, I needed to water, with temps predicted to increase on Tuesday. I hand-watered hot spots and non-irrigated areas in the front, with a lot on the recycling lid damaged area receiving a heavy dose. Street was still hot, so I decided to focus DIY irrigation on the RV side, and really, really, pounded the water, for about 6 hours (8:30 pm-2:30 am). I need to get some water going I the back today.

Gardens are holding up and Crate Myrtles are now in bloom.

Thoughts and observations: 

Very heavy water, focusing on only one or two zones per day, combined with wetting agents is very effective

Waiting a few days for the water to move through the soil between irrigation cycles gives better feedback on water needs than watering all zones in one day (however, sometimes that's needed for relief-syringing, wetting soil before rain, etc.

Confirmed my previous observations, that kbg is more resilient than TTTF, and comes out of dormancy fast

N is currently sufficient with levelof "green"; just focusing on water needs right now


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## Babameca

The heaven Gardens Man... I admire the full season colors you pull. 
Lawn looks great for the time of the year we are all in.


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## JerseyGreens

get any rain last night, Chris? We got 0.62 inches over the last 12 hours and that makes me a very happy man.


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## Chris LI

@Babameca 
Thank you! The gardens are a joint effort with my MIL, who lives with us. Plant selection is 90/10 MIL/me, and labor is 90/10 me/MIL, as it should be. :lol:

@JerseyGreens 
0.30" Our area didn't do as well as you, but I'll take it! We're going to join you and roast beginning tomorrow, so I opted to water more preemptively.

Building on what was given, I broke out the Pellet Pro and hit LDS/stressed areas, and some I didn't hit in the backyard the first couple of times. I went with TR this time around (as opposed to H20 Maximizer) to hit areas which puddled, when I irrigated heavily over the last week. I really wanted to spray some Anuew and Azoxy, but I've been tired out from long 6-day work weeks, and didn't feel like pumping up and carrying my 3 gallon Chapin. Walking around with a 3/4" hose and Pellet Pro was much easier, and with a cloudy 74* ( :yahoo: relief) and water pressure was better with no one else watering (strategy ). This time around, I used the Rainbow nozzle (yellow), which really sprayed nicely. The Cloudburst puts more water down at less pressure, so I'll save it for hot, high ET days. I figured since everything never dried out from last night/morning rain, I wouldn't contribute to fungus activity. I'm watering my DIY zones in, now.


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## Green

Is that dormant (or dead) bad grass in the second to last photo, or some type of damage?


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> Is that dormant (or dead) bad grass in the second to last photo, or some type of damage?


That's the triv I roasted with Anuew. :twisted:

I think some of it is coming back, but I hope that I took some out. I keep taking shots of this hideous mess, to document what happens. I even got a little TR on it today. I figured that if some comes back, maybe the next app of PGR will do more damage. The area really needs a reno, but with triv, I'm not wasting a fall reno. However, I might do a fall overseed, since it looks so bad.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that dormant (or dead) bad grass in the second to last photo, or some type of damage?
> 
> 
> 
> That's the triv I roasted with Anuew. :twisted:
> 
> I think some of it is coming back, but I hope that I took some out. I keep taking shots of this hideous mess, to document what happens. I even got a little TR on it today. I figured that if some comes back, maybe the next app of PGR will do more damage. The area really needs a reno, but with triv, I'm not wasting a fall reno. However, I might do a fall overseed, since it looks so bad.
Click to expand...

You know, it really looks like a lot of it is dead...it's so matted and dark gray, like it's starting to decompose. Reminds me of the look after using Velocity. Some of it will always survive, but see what happens over the next month or so. If you want to increase the chance of killing it, I've had success using a light to moderate manual dethatching before my next Velocity spray.

TR=? Not thatch rake?!


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## Chris LI

@Green 
Fingers crossed. I'm hoping it's dead, but that stuff is damn near impossible to kill, like those devil weeds (Zoysia and Bermuda). They're like the Phoenix and rise from the ashes. It all looked dead, until I saw some green beginning to peak out from underneath.

TR=Tournament Ready

If I have time, I might do a little light raking before the next PGR app.


----------



## Chris LI

Arrrrrrgggggghhhhhh! Groundhog Day! Recycling guys are out to get me and opened up both barrels (literally, and nailed me with the lids), on the *ONE* green spot left in the center of the mini-hellstrip. 

I should have learned my lesson the first time and put the recycling cans in front of the driveway apron for the RV, but I worked 14 hours yesterday and was lucky to put the correct type of recyclables out. :dumb:

I love Blues music, but the cliche of "If I didn't have bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all.", is just ridiculous now. Murphy's Law is kicking me in the 

I wanted to spray PGR and Azoxy today after work, before the heatwave tomorrow, but was exhausted. That took any wind I had left out of my sails. Oh well, small potatoes in the big scheme of things. I'll get to practice growing more grass. I'll call this a solarization experiment. :bd: Maybe I should continue to put the cans in the same spot, to see if the guys are good at target practice with any remaining green spots.:lol:


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## Butter

Maybe you need to leave those guys a note and a 12 pack of beer.


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## bf7

OUCH. I am so sorry.

I guess that's why they call it a hell strip. It's supposed to look like that &#128077;


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## jskierko

You should cut holes in the lids and secure them to handles of the can with some string or zip tie. That way when they are emptied they can just leave the lids hanging at the side of the can, but not in the grass.


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## Green

This can lid situation is crazy. I'd be tempted to go without lids, but maybe that's not an option (rain, animals, wind, laws, peer pressure, etc.).


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## jabopy

I can't believe the trouble your having with the can lids Chris!! Only hope a solution pops it's head up soon. Have you an option of a mini wheelie bin that the lid is hinged? Gardens looking great, say hello to your MIL. :thumbup:


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## Wile

I like jskierko's idea. Mine are fixed to the bucket. Sorry you're dealing with that.


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## Chris LI

@Butter 
@bf7 
@jskierko 
@Green 
@jabopy 
@Wile 
Thank you all! I appreciate your thoughts, ideas, suggestions and sympathy. TLF is a great community where there is a lot of support. I think I'll start with a combination of ideas. First, I'll try staging them near the apron, without lids (unless wind or rain on cardboard is an issue, that night). If that doesn't work, I'll go from there. It's only grass, but it's still frustrating. I know the guys don't mean any harm, but they probably have rules of not tossing them on the sidewalk, and don't realize what they can do on a hot day. Maybe something is telling me that I need to do an experiment with that area. Test plot? I might just need to pull some plugs from one of my my mini-renos with the Pro Plugger and see how aggressively I can get it to fill in. Maybe also pull some TTTF plugs, too, for a comparison...not sure.


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday was the only day this week in the low 80's (82*), but it's been extremely humid the whole week, so conditions are ripe for fungal outbreaks.



I got an edge/trim in finally, after 3 weeks and mulch mowed with the Ninja on a 6-day interval, sans striping kit, to keep from matting the grass down. I didn't have time to spray, but used the nighttime to water heavily, since it was essentially 100% relative humidity. HOC front-3", backyard 2".

Today, it went back up to 85* with high humidity, so I finally got my spray in (per M):

Azoxy (Heritage SC): 0.4 oz.
Greene Effect 7-0-0: 3 oz.
Microgreene 0-0-2: 3 oz
NIS: 1 tsp

Anuew (front 3"): 0.25 oz.
Anuew (back 2"): 0.17 oz.

I tank mixed everything together and the only difference was the PGR rate, lower in the backyard. I went lower on the Double Dark Combo rates because it went a little brownish, grayish, blackish last couple of times with the 18-0-1 added in. I'm trying not to feed the Zoysia too much, as I'm still combating it.

Photos from yesterday:


----------



## Wile

Have you tried watering it a lot? Pretty sure it will come back. I've seen a lot of FB posts with people leaving slip n slides or something on there too long. They usually come back with sufficient watering.


----------



## Chris LI

Wile said:


> Have you tried watering it a lot? Pretty sure it will come back. I've seen a lot of FB posts with people leaving slip n slides or something on there too long. They usually come back with sufficient watering.


Yes, I was watering it heavily initially, but missed a "watering cycle", so to speak, when I last watered with my DIY system, because it's a hand-watered only section and I didn't have the time or energy to set up a sprinkler. I'll continue trying to bring it back, and we'll see what happens. Thanks!


----------



## Wile

Makes sense. I'm sure it comes back once the weather breaks.


----------



## Chris LI

Got stuck at work extra late, so my late night heavy watering is reduced. Main front got 1/2 an hour, and front RV side is currently up to 45 minutes. Bedtime for Bonzo soon, so that will only get a little more.


----------



## Wile

Chris LI said:


> Bedtime for Bonzo soon


 :lol: I have not heard any one else say that, but my father. Love it.


----------



## Chris LI

Wile said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bedtime for Bonzo soon
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: I have not heard any one else say that, but my father. Love it.
Click to expand...

 :lol: I've got a couple of years on you, so I'll take it as a compliment! :thumbup:

Honestly, I haven't said or heard it in ages, and it just clicked...glad I amused you!


----------



## Chris LI

Water, water, and more water! I was strategically watering with my favorite Melnor rotary sprinkler today. It covers a decent area and pours on the water at the perfect rate of absorption, with minimal runoff. Then I switched to some DIY zones (back west, front main, and now back under the trees). Weather has been very weird: very warm-hot (high 80's), super humid and very windy (80-90%) and (20+ mph). Tomorrow is predicted to be 90*. Home A/C is struggling to keep up; not so much the temps, but the humidity seems to be the kicker.

I have a super long workday tomorrow and wanted to get a long watering cycle in today.


----------



## Chris LI

Worked my 16.5 hour day without a rain drop, but came home last night to find out we had a little rain that was helpful (0.20"). It was hot and muggy, but didn't quite hit 90* (89* high). Dragged my carcass and recyclables out to the street and strategically placed them using the suggestion of leaving the lids off.



I came home today and found that someone brought the cans in for me, and I didn't notice any new turf damage. That's a win for me.


----------



## Chris LI

Last night after work, I mulch mowed the back and then the front and finished up just after sunset. I kept HOC the same and no striping kit. No time for edging or trimming, as this was more of a utility mow. Main front is really thick and dense, moreso than I recall in past years. Zoysia sticks out like a sore thumb, but I'll live with it because it's green. Iron and micros didn't really darken it too much, but I've stayed away from additional N, to keep it from encroaching even more on the cool season grasses. Next N will probably be towards the end of the month, before I start the blitz, with the exception of anything that has a little in it (iron products, K4L, etc.)

The lawn seems to be doing a little better this time of year than last year, at this time. I attribute this to wetting agents and PGR. I'll have to look back at my journal to compare. I still have 1-2 traditional bad hot spots, but others are much better. Temps and humidity have really moderated the last couple of days, and the trend is downward. We haven't hit the magical 59* overnight low yet, but the last two nights were 64* and 60*, respectively. They are predicted to trend up later in the week, but any break from the heat/humidity is a blessing.

Not really photo worthy, but for documentation purposes.

Photos 3&4 are closeups of Zoysia and Cool Season grasses in main front. 7th photo with small pop up sprinkler by sidewalk is prg that got toasted (one bad hot spot). Next photo is other bad hot spot near mulch pile. Last photo is triv farm, and will be interesting to see what happens. Last round of PGR didn't seem to harm anything, so I'm not sure if triv is still dormant or toast, after all the watering I've been doing. I'm sure it will be back.


----------



## M32075

Considering the no rain pounding daily heat on Long island this summer you are looking really good I'm jealous


----------



## Chris LI

@M32075 
Thank you! I added extra focus on heavy watering, wetting agents, and PGR this year. That made a noticeable difference, combined with the foliar apps I started using last year. I could better control growth, color, hydration, etc. I highly suggest incorporating as many of those elements into your program, as you are able to do.


----------



## Chris LI

Watered late Sunday night and late last night, because it's still been very dry here. Some folks are beginning their fall N-blitz apps, but it's still too early here for that. We're near the ocean, so soil temps are still up there. I'll have to break out the instant read meat thermometer, like @Powhatan was doing over the summer with 100*+ temps.  I would like to see if the microclimate/soil temp is starting to drop. I haven't seen much change in our groundwater temps through the faucet yet.

Labor Day is our prime seeding time, so I'm deciding how much to overseed, as I'm due for another round of Prodiamine. I've been working a lot of days/hours over the last month, so lawn care has been at a minimum. PGR has really helped with that aspect, combined with wetting agents. I was able to focus on water with mowing on cruise control.


----------



## Chris LI

@JerseyGreens Posted the drought monitor map of NJ, so I figured that I should look up the one for L.I., to see how bad we are. My area is firmly in the D1 (Moderate Drought), with the D2 creeping in from the west. I looked at the national map and understand why @bosox_5 is having great difficulties right now, as the eastern half of MA is deep in the orange and red (D3- Severe Drought and D4 - Extreme Drought). Hopefully, all of us will start to get some rain soon. I'll continue to focus on deep irrigation and wetting agents right now. I believe they are really saving my lawn, as I see many professionally maintained lawns with irrigation under severe stress/dormancy.

The eastern end of L.I. is under watering restrictions, not due to availability of water, but due to lack of fire protection, with the concerns of brush fires. Fire Departments are concerned with severe pressure drop with overnight watering, which affects fire protection. This reminds me of '94 or '95, when the Pine Barrens were torched due to drought, and I worked overnight OT fire watch at my facility, in conjunction with the local Fire Dept., putting out hot spots with Indian cans.


----------



## JerseyGreens

The crazy part about this drought...at least for me - there isn't a lick of any rain in the next 7 day forecast and we are back to 90s later this week...


----------



## manhattanite

Your lawn looks great all things considered. We just closed on our first home on long island a few weeks ago and it has been a brutal moment to take over the reins. Even with a decent irrigation system, the week it was off between when the sellers left and we arrived basically toasted huge chunks of the yard. Will definitely be overseeding this labor day weekend.


----------



## bosox_5

It's a problem


----------



## Chris LI

bosox_5 said:


> It's a problem


I didn't want to show the awfulness of that map, but I can't blame you for putting it up. I was afraid to ask, but I assume that you're somewhere in the red area? I'm sure you're doing all that you can do, so I didn't make any suggestions in your journal. Nothing is more frustrating than armchair quarter backs when you're knee deep in the trenches. Hopefully, you'll get some (key word, some) rain in the near future, and things will turn around.


----------



## bosox_5

I live in Bristol county which is the completely red one in the south east.

Football starts soon, so I am hoping this will turn around.


----------



## Chris LI

bosox_5 said:


> I live in Bristol county which is the completely red on in the south east.
> 
> Football starts soon, so I am hoping this will turn around.


Ouch! I was afraid so. Some showers passed north of me today. Hopefully, you got something. I'm looking forward to cooler temperatures, but we're predicted to have a little warm up first.


----------



## Chris LI

Still low 80's and virtually no rain, so I broke out the Pellet Pro with H2O Maximizer yesterday and hit LDS and stressed areas of cool season grasses. I avoided helping the Zoysia as much as possible :twisted: . Watered heavily, the RV side front and main backyard by deck and trees.

Today, heavy water running on the main front, now. We had a sprinkle from Mother Nature, so I'm not adding to disease pressure. I heard on the radio today, that eastern L.I. folks are not adhering to nighttime water restrictions in effect to maintain water volume/pressure for fire protection. I also noticed on the way to work this morning a small scorched area on the center median of the highway. Presumably, a cigarette butt was the culprit. No good chance for rain until Monday, and temps in the mid 80's for the next few days...not good.


----------



## Green

Are they restricting watering to night hours, or saying you cannot water at night?


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Are they restricting watering to night hours, or saying you cannot water at night?


Cannot water between 12 am and 7 am. I believe there are no filter plant pump operators overnight, so the tanks get drained with everyone watering at night. They are also suggesting to reduce water usage in general, but it is not a restriction. The restriction and recommendation is for the 4 townships at the eastern end of L.I. (twin fork). Anyone on county water is not affected at this time, as far as I know.


----------



## Chris LI

I just checked the Drought Monitor...not good. We're upgraded to D2-Severe Drought. I've been watering heavily with my favorite sprinkler in the backyard and switched over to the DIY zone in the front by the RV. Many lawns are crispy. Today was very warm at 86*, and no rain predicted until Monday.


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## Jeff_MI84

@Chris LI I'm getting some rain later that you can have.


----------



## Chris LI

Jeff_MI84 said:


> @Chris LI I'm getting some rain later that you can have.


I'll take it!!! :thumbup:


----------



## Chris LI

Today, I mulch mowed at the same HOC, after a trim/edge. It's still very warm and humid (87* today; 86* yesterday) with high humidity. More heavy watering and it looks pretty good despite the conditions. I finished up just in time to catch the top of the 2nd, so no photos. :mrgreen:

I need to double check GDD for my next PGR app. I should be due. Visually, it's still under regulation, but I'm looking to lower HOC soon, if temperatures drop, and don't want to violate the 1/3 rule. Density at 3" with PGR is as thick as 2" HOC without PGR. I can't wait to see the density when I lower HOC. I'm hooked on PGR.


----------



## Chris LI

I confirmed that the lawn is out of regulation, but haven't seen rebound yet. I need to do both foliar (PGR) and soil (D-Thatch) apps now, so I have to figure on timing and tank mixes.

Rain is predicted tonight-tomorrow, so maybe soil app first with De-Thatch, Air-8, and Spoon Juice 5-0-1(out of Rgs). PGR maybe a day afterwards with some N. Thoughts?


----------



## Butter

Hopefully you get some rain and get out of drought status.


----------



## uts

Chris LI said:


> I confirmed that the lawn is out of regulation, but haven't seen rebound yet. I need to do both foliar (PGR) and soil (D-Thatch) apps now, so I have to figure on timing and tank mixes.
> 
> Rain is predicted tonight-tomorrow, so maybe soil app first with De-Thatch, Air-8, and Spoon Juice 5-0-1(out of Rgs). PGR maybe a day afterwards with some N. Thoughts?


If I had 12 hours I would do pgr first to prevent rebound. The fert with water will def kick it in gear.


----------



## dksmc

Just a random thought. It's interesting to read the restrictions different areas have. Up here in Ontario we can't use any of the "good" chemicals, but it's been a long time since I remember any kind of water restrictions. I guess every location has their own struggles!


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## Chris LI

@uts 
Thanks! I might just do that. Yesterday, I was trying to plan to get some type of spray down (foliar vs. soil), but it was a moot point. See below.

@dksmc 
You are absolutely right with your observations. Many times, certain areas struggle due to environmental factors, and others struggle due to restrictions. It gives me a real appreciation of the lawns I see on TLF and what professional turf managers go through to maintain a nice stand of turf.

As they say a


is worth 1,000 words.

I took this just a few minutes ago before the 24-hour rain gauge reset. I received all of that between 11 and 11:15 am yesterday. Disheartening, to say the least. I did not feel like irrigating again, so no soil spray app. I did not want a foliar app to be washed off with the possibility of rain, so no foliar app. Back to the drawing board. Today will be another day of relief at a predicted high of 81*. However, tomorrow and the next few consecutive days are predicted to be a consistent 88*. (Edit-between 10:30 and 10:45 am-rain gauge just reset).

I'm glad that others in the NE received some much needed rain.


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## Chris LI

Nope...high predicted for Tuesday was incorrect. Actual: 
Tues. 84*
Wed. 88*
Thurs. 86*
Today 86*

Almost no rain. Literally, a few drops as I went back to mowing today, after smelling ozone from the t-bolts, and standing in the house for about 10 minutes, waiting for it to pass. I'll have to go back and check, but I think the rain total for August is <0.25".

I needed to mow today, before a BBQ tomorrow, so I went for it and lowered front HOC to 2-5/8". Hitting rebound from expired PGR app, so slightly violated 1/3 rule on 6-day interval on the front, due to lowered HOC. However, I had to go slow today, even with the Ninja because it's soooo thick. I hope this looks even better this fall.

I noticed something interesting. When all were regulated, the Zoysia grew faster than the kbg/cool season grasses. During rebound, kbg/cool season grasses are growing faster. It almost seems like the Zoysia wasn't affected as much and maintained a consistent growth rate, while the kbg/cool season grasses were controlled by PGR. The other variables are duration of sunlight and sun angle, both decreasing during the month. Sun angle is a biggie when it comes to change in growth rate later in the fall (with cool season turf). I bet the same thing counts with warm season turf, and now is the time they start to slow down, with sun angle decreasing, even though it's very warm. Anyone with experience or documentation?


----------



## Chris LI

It was too late/dark for photos last night, and friends just came over for a rare BBQ tonight, so photos will have to wait. Although, it looks pretty good in general, despite the ongoing drought. I looked back in my journal to note specific events during the summer:

6/27 0.65" precipitation (last amount >0.5")
7/7 0.4-0.45 lbs N (only drop/>.25 lbs)
7/14 0.27" precipitation 
7/22 0.31" precipitation
7/31 0.30" precipitation 
8/10 0.20" precipitation 
8/23 0.02" precipitation

Not much precipitation for August, at all. Wetting agents and strategic, heavy watering have saved my butt. Front lawn looked super dense at 3". It looks super duper dense at 2-5/8". I find that amazing with virtually no N since 7/7. I attribute it to PGR. It's way out of regulation and high on my list, to get the next app down.

Edit: Add high temp for today was 84*. Low was 70*. I'm still waiting for that elusive 59* overnight low, to signal that it's game time for dropping N. At 9 pm, I just came in from the backyard to escape the nasty 75* and 86% humidity, to watch the game in A/C.


----------



## Butter

1/4" of rain?! Man, I thought Kansas was having a rough August. I hope you get rain soon.


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## Chris LI

Butter said:


> 1/4" of rain?! Man, I thought Kansas was having a rough August. I hope you get rain soon.


Maybe, I should start a reno! That will surely bring rain! :lol:

Actually, I need to overseed a couple of areas, but work is too busy, and it's still too hot. I usually drop seed just after Labor Day. We'll see.


----------



## Chris LI

I've noticed a change in growrh habits between cool season and warm season grasses over the last 2-3 weeks. Initially, the Zoysia was growing faster than the cool season grasses and was more similar in color, whereas the inverse seems to be the current situation, regarding growth habits. Now, the Zoysia has slowed in growth rate and lost color, and the cool season grasses have increased both in rate of growth and darkness of color. This does not usually happen until mid-late fall. It's warmer than usual for this time of year, and after using PGR, is now out of regulation. I wonder if it has anything to do with PGR and the lower angle of the sun. Thoughts?

At least the lower angle of the sun is providing relief, with my street, sidewalk, and some of my grass, all benefitting from increased shade.


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## situman

We are literally surrounded by water and hardly any rain. How crazy is that? Im trying to seed bare spots and it uust would not getminate...except under the cover of weeds since it holds moisture and blocks the sun...go figure...weeds are useful lol.


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## Chris LI

situman said:


> We are literally surrounded by water and hardly any rain. How crazy is that? Im trying to seed bare spots and it uust would not getminate...except under the cover of weeds since it holds moisture and blocks the sun...go figure...weeds are useful lol.


You're right. This is completely ridiculous! I'm on the same page as you. It's really interfering with what I need to do. I have been having to focus on watering as my main task. I need to get down D-Thatch, but I can't catch a break with any natural rain! You are definitely right about weeds as a cover for your seed. Work with what you got! Funny, you bring that up. One of the selling points on the "Grass Stitcher" is just that. Spiking through crabgrass is what they showed as a selling point, and it works! You will be in good shape next spring with good PreM and some broadleaf herbicide.


----------



## Chris LI

Focused on some much needed watering during the day today, so I could get some foliar apps in this evening. No time for the soil apps (De-Thatch, Air-8, wetting agents, etc.). I'll work on them soon.

Foliar apps (per gallon/M)were:

*Front*

0.25 oz. Anuew

11 oz. DEF (slightly >0.1 lbs N

3 oz. 7-0-0 Greene Effect

5 oz. 0-0-2 Microgreene

1-2 tsp NIS

*Backyard*

0.25 oz. Anuew

9.5 oz. DEF (~0.1 lbs N

3 oz. 7-0-0 Greene Effect

5 oz. 0-0-2 Microgreene

1-2 tsp NIS

Some much needed rain is on the radar with ETA of 11:45 pm. Hopefully, my foliar app will have absorbed by then. I sprayed the front last and finished around 8 pm, so that's barely within the 4-24 hour rule. On a plus note, everything is generally looking better with temps slowly starting to taper off. Humidity is another story, and totally ridiculous. On top of everything, I really need to get another Azoxy app down. Temps were 83* the last couple of days.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I watered all zones for 1+ hours, each.

Tues. Low 73* (humid :x )
Wed. High 84*(humid :x )
Wed. Low 65* (1st time below 70* in awhile)
Today High 85*(dry :yahoo: )

Lawn was a little overgrown on the main front, due to rebound from overdue PGR app, so I mowed on a 6-day interval. The turf is thicker than ever, so I'm hopeful for a strong fall season. HOC stayed the same front-2-5/8"; back 2".

I didn't want to water and introduce moisture to promote fungus, but it's still very dry. Hopefully, the leaf blades will dry before morning. I watered with my favorite propeller sprinkler and moved it around to the LDS. Some rain is predicted fro Sunday/Monday, but I need to get down some more wetting agent.


----------



## bf7

Kudos for working through all this drought madness! I can't even imagine. Are the non-irrigated yards around you dead?


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## Chris LI

bf7 said:


> Kudos for working through all this drought madness! I can't even imagine. Are the non-irrigated yards around you dead?


Thanks! At this point, it's hard to tell if they're dormant or dead. They are very crispy. :shock:

The drought monitor map of NY was updated yesterday. The entirety L.I. is now in Severe Drought (D2) stage. I guess to sum it up...

The Good:
We finally hit the benchmark that I always look for at the end of the Summer last night (59* Low). :yahoo: .


Today's High was only 77* and DRY! :yahoo:
Right now, it's 62* and dropping. 
The lawn greened up with N, Fe, and PGR.

The Bad:
Still very dry, with all the irrigating. I used my propeller sprinkler last night in several areas with no, or minimal DIY coverage/LDS, except for the main front. Tonight, I used the propeller sprinkler on the poor overlap/LDS area of the main front, and then ran the DIY zone for that area for 3.5 hours and shut it off at 11:59 pm, with the midnight-7 am voluntary water restriction. It was very dry after mowing yesterday and no water/dry/warm conditions.

The Ugly:
Although the lawn is fairly green and very thick (front Zoysia is super duper thick), it is very uneven between the warm season and cool season grasses. Cooler (moderate) temperatures usually help even it out with fertilizer and water. I still need to do another round of wetting agent(s). As you can see, I still have crispy areas, with all of the irrigation. 
Some are definitely dead (i.e. hellstrip). Photos from yesterday, just at/after sunset:


----------



## Green

Looks good, though. Hopefully the hellstrip grass isn't actually dead from the can lid solarization issue, but only you can judge that. On the other hand, hopefully the back Triv area is dead.

I need to get some photos myself...the situation you've portrayed here looks strikingly similar.

And that weather panel with all the data you keep featuring...is really cool. What is that?

CT, LI, MA, and RI--the rectangularly-delineated area known as "Southern New England +"--is definitely the worst area as far as drought on the East Coast right now. As they say, my weather is your weather. Or is it: "Mi (burnt) cesped es su (en fuego) cesped"? I'm up to/beyond a 4-in HOC in many areas now to trap as much moisture as possible. Fungus pressure and heightened ET demand be damned, lol!


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## Chris LI

@Green 
Thanks for the support and camaraderie.

The weather station is made by LA Crosse. It's pretty cool with a rain gauge and anemometer (wind). The battery is still good after a few years for the rain gauge, but I need to replace the battery for the anemometer. It is WiFi capabilities and was great on my phone, but I didn't continue the subscription, after the free period was up.

Hopefully, we'll get the rain predicted on Monday.
We'll see about the "dead" spots. I think the reverse will be the case. That's OK. We all practice growing grass.


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## LIgrass

Looks good Chris! Is your front lawn a zoysia cool season mix? That is crazy if it is. My neighbor has zoysia and needed help mowing one year. It was awesome cutting her zoysia front yard with my HRX. So dense and loves low cuts. I hear you on the drought. Hoping for rain! I think your crispy areas will come back for the most part with this cooler weather hitting.


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## Chris LI

@LIgrass 
Thanks! Yes, it is. Unfortunately, it migrated from the hellstrip a few years ago, and slowly took over. I used to manage the lawn at more of a TTTF height (3-4") and tried keeping it lower during peak summer a couple of years ago at 2", and it accelerated the progress, with an early hot/dry summer. Last year, I slowed progress a little, but the drought this year hasn't helped. If it was a little darker and wasn't dormant 6 months a year, I wouldn't mind so much. I just manage it until one day, I have time to reno it. Anyone with a sod cutter is welcome to come and take it. :lol:

I do have to give it credit, though, for its density. However, the cool season density has also jumped two notches this year with PGR and heavy wetting agents.


----------



## Chris LI

@Butter 
I didn't want to clog up your journal, so to add to the comments I left for you...

Mother Nature is displaying an obscene gesture at me right now, as rain is covering all of North Jersey, much of upstate NY, and pretty much the whole of Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island. 
@JerseyGreens 
@JERSEY 
@Green 
@uts 
@kay7711226 
@bosox_5 
all can probably attest.


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## bosox_5

I don't understand what this stuff is falling from the sky. It's like a liquid form of snow. Haven't seen it since the spring


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## Green

Yes, it's raining here. You should be getting some tomorrow...


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## JERSEY

Chris LI said:


> @Butter
> I didn't want to clog up your journal, so to add to the comments I left for you...
> 
> Mother Nature is displaying an obscene gesture at me right now, as rain is covering all of North Jersey, much of upstate NY, and pretty much the whole of Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island.
> @JerseyGreens
> @JERSEY
> @Green
> @uts
> @kay7711226
> @bosox_5
> all can probably attest.


as of sept 6 600 am..NOT 1 DROP of rain yet. havent had a good rain in 7 weeks here in south jersey at my location.
I have watered my grass maybe 10-12 times this year. I refuse to overstress my well and pump..not for grass...no way.

really tough on the turf. i went against many rules yesterday.....scalped my hurting grass since alot was laying over.....dropped 1/2lb N through 10-10-10 and threw seed.

mother nature dictates.

they say 1 inch of rain coming today.....hope so! I see the tree's are wilting too....rough year here!


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## Chris LI

@JERSEY Thanks for the update! I'm finally off, after a long 6-day work week, and planned on lawn "stuff" today. I figure that I would rest a bit and track the rain, do some lawn prep (sharpen blades), and run a couple of errands.

Overnight, we had a tiny bit, 0.02", and the last sprinkle just brought it up to 0.03". We'll see what happens.


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## kay7711226

I'm just topping over at around 4.5" as of 6pm, expecting some more tonight so may will go over 5" I would have taken all of that spread out over the last 4 months. Just gotta roll with mother nature I guess.


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## Chris LI

@kay7711226 Wow! We've had flash flood warnings since yesterday, but haven't gotten that much, yet. I had Weather Channel on a little while ago and saw all sorts of flooded areas in NE. Rain has been very slow and only periodic showers for us. My 24-hour rain gauge just ticked up from 0.45" to 0.46" in the last few minutes.


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## JERSEY

we ended up with 1 inch of rain, slow and steady..another 0.3 tomorrow. Ill Take It!

Already my turf is recovering. I do have some Nasty spots that were never watered....oh well.....seed---fert---rain---all fine in a few weeks.


----------



## Chris LI

@JERSEY Thanks for the update. I think you hit the sweet spot. I just checked my weather station rain gauge and I'm up to 0.55", which sounds pretty good, so far. I hope it blows through, so I can get out in the lawn tomorrow.


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## Chris LI

Total precipitation stayed at 0.55"

High temp the day before (Monday) was 86*, so this was a day of relief.
The low Monday night was 72*.
The high yesterday was 75*
The low last night was 66*


----------



## situman

Rained all day yesterday and the night before and a few sprinkles expected today. Mowed and pounded the lawn with fert and bio stims on Monday. Noticing the grass has that shine to it now that it received some sky juice. Let's see how it reacts to the fert this Sunday with it being heavily watered in.


----------



## Chris LI

@situman 
Sounds good! Hopefully, this is the trend towards cooler temperatures and some regular precipitation. :thumbup:


----------



## Chris LI

Busy lawn day. I started off with some errands, which included picking up another gallon of Rgs and filling up my gas and mix cans.

Everything dried up enough to attach the Thatcherizer to my Snapper and switch to the bagging blade. I raised HOC to 3" and went to town on the main front lawn and quickly found out that it is way to thick. I took off the Thatcherizer, bag mowed to/from the street, and tried it again (parallel to the street). Nope. I had to raise the tines and then I could mow parallel to the street. I finished with a diagonal mow.

Next, I dropped it back down to 2-5/8" and dethatched the front, next to the RV. Two passes, plaid cross-hatch. Then, the same for the backyard. Used nearly two tanks of fuel, and ran out of steam, so only main front photos. I threw in the mailbox photo to show how much lighter the mailbox area is, that didn't receive the last app of fertilizer, Fe, and PGR.


----------



## bf7

Chris LI said:


>


The middle of your yard looks darker than the surrounding area. Is that a different grass type?


----------



## JERSEY

I see some of that turf is recovering really good.
on the left of the black post(mailbox)? really nice.

yeah, all told, we got 1.25 rain. decent. already recovering...but im hurt far worse than you. I just stopped watering .

im going to feed the crap out of my turf as we cool off.

rain coming tuesday...LOVE IT. extreme here in south jersey. they banned watering grass for city water in town. yeah.


----------



## Chris LI

bf7 said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The middle of your yard looks darker than the surrounding area. Is that a different grass type?
Click to expand...

Well, that's why I really need to do a reno. It's what's left of my cool season grasses. I call it "Custer's Last Stand". :lol: The surrounding turf is that devil weed Zoysia  A few years ago there wasn't much Zoysia in the main lawn and the hellstrip was only about 50%. Now the main area is ~50% and the hellstrip 95%+ Zoysia.

Summer is my insane season at work and I only lets up around now, so I haven't risked a reno. However, I think it's no longer an option, and I need to go for it next year. The color was a little more balanced in the spring and also in the fall during past years with the N-blitz. I'll be starting the blitz relatively soon, but it's still a little warm for it, and our growing season is longer in the fall, due to the nearby ocean keeping it warmer than inland areas.


----------



## Chris LI

@JERSEY 
Thanks! Yes, that closeup is the mailbox area. That's all Zoysia and a love/hate relationship. I hate that it takes over the whole lawn, eating my beloved kbg, is lime green, brown until May, and turning brown again in October. The only redeeming value is that the hellstrip doesn't get cooked in the summer...just look at my other hellstrips. My MIL cut down the Iris foliage for end of season and exposed the unfertilized Zoysia growing up through it and you can see how light the Zoysia really is.

Good luck with pounding the N. I will probably start soon. Sorry to hear about the watering restrictions and dormant turf. Hopefully, they'll get lifted soon and your turf will recover. I can't say it often enough; wetting agents really saved my butt. The Underhill Pellet Pro applicator and Tournament Ready and H20 Maximizer are worth the expense. Along with, PGR they made a huge difference this year. Some areas of the backyard didn't get as much wetting agents and water, and they really suffered.


----------



## bf7

Haha, looking forward to the reno! Any thoughts on what seed you'd go with?

How did the zoysia get in your lawn anyway?


----------



## LIgrass

bf7 said:


> Haha, looking forward to the reno! Any thoughts on what seed you'd go with?
> 
> How did the zoysia get in your lawn anyway?


All it takes is a little zoysia in any part of your or your neighbors property and it can turn into a huge problem over the years. I had a similar situation my neighbors zoysia crept into my backyard and over a few years took over about 150sqft of my backyard. I killed it off in a 2014 renovation but it was a battle with multiple roundup apps and lots of nitrogen. Every summer I have to roundup all the runners trying to come into my yard.


----------



## g-man

You can control zoysia with Pylex and I think tenacity too or maybe a combo of both.


----------



## Chris LI

@bf7 
@LIgrass 
It was in two small sections the lawn when I moved in and in the hellstrip. I believe it came from the house on the other side of town land. I almost killed the section off by the RV several years ago when I renovated with TTTF. However, I didn't know about fallowing at the time and was in a time crunch, so glyphosate on day 0 and seed down on day 1, so it slowly came back over the years, to rear its ugly head.

@g-man 
Thanks! Do you think it is worth it at this point, with so much in the lawn, or is a reno the best choice? I have been leery of trying a reno, with little time in the summer for multiple glyphosate apps with fallowing, so I've put it off. Last year, I experimented with a RTU product with the same A.I., with one app (Roundup Crabgrass Destroyer). @Green and I had some discussion over it. The Topramezone beat it up a bit, and the cool season grasses felt it a little, too. I sprayed a path on a diagonal from the property line at the curb, by the utility pole, to the corner of the garden bed under the bay window by the gear drive sprinkler (shown in many photos). This was the dividing line between the Zoysia and cool season turf. With one app, it seemed to keep it from advancing. At this point, my front lawn could become one big test plot. I still have some left and might be willing to sacrifice the front lawn, in the interest of science, so to speak. Maybe spray a big square to cover a section of Zoysia and cool season grasses? Maybe another square in front of the small garden in front of the steps? Zoysia really encroached on a nice plot of kbg in that section. Also, I have some bentgrass in the front, too, so I can add Tenacity to the experiment. Any thoughts?


----------



## Green

@Chris LI, speaking of experiments and test areas, I'm surprised you haven't messed with turf marking paint. I'm always using it to label things where I'm spraying specialty herbicides, to label sprinkler positions, or where I need to dig something up. A spot here, a line there, etc. Surely I can't be the only one doing this.

As far as Topramezone use, what do you have to lose? If it doesn't work, you could always renovate. Seems like an approach that will fit your schedule. And I think it's good that you tried it last year and got a little experience before jumping in this year. I almost picked up a thing of that product myself this past year (can't remember exactly why I was contemplating it, maybe as a tank mix for Triv or something).


----------



## Chris LI

@bf7 
For seed, I still have some Mazama/Beyond and some older Bewitched, and have mini renos with mono Bewitched and some with an equal 3-way blend. The mono Bewitched did not perform to my expectations, but the 3-way performed very well.

For the future, Mazama is a definite, and the other two are possibilities. Midnight, Bluebank and Prosperity are also in the running. I would like to have 3 in separate classifications. I had looked everything up a long time ago and planned on kbgs from three different classifications and that's why I went with the three I mentioned: Mazama-America, Bewitched-Compact, Beyond-Compact Midnight. Most folks know about Mazama and Bewitched, but Beyond is highly rated for tensile strength and a good Poa A fighter, not to mention it has great color and some shade tolerance. My favorite section by the deck, which has this 3-way, might become a sod farm for the Pro Plugger.


----------



## Green

@Chris LI

Just a thought from your other reply: I may be picking up some more Bewitched (sod quality) this Fall and could split it with you and/or a CT guy (don't want to mail stuff too far) if you need some more, because it'll probably be a 10lb minimum order.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> @Chris LI
> 
> Just a thought from your other reply: I may be picking up some more Bewitched (sod quality) this Fall and could split it with you and/or a CT guy (don't want to mail stuff too far) if you need some more, because it'll probably be a 10lb minimum order.


Thanks! I'll have to check my stock/age and let you know if I need some. I saw your other post and will consider, as I don't have much to lose at this point. I need to look at it again with fresh eyes, after sleeping on it. If I go ballistic and wind up with a total fail, a bag of tri-rye might save my spring. :lol:


----------



## LIgrass

What town are you in? You still have a window to nuke the zoysia. Your chances of a solid 100% kill are better when dormancy is close. Feed the crap out of it - I'm talking 2lbs/K of fast release N. Nuke by Monday at double strength. fallow for 5-7 days, RU again. Pre-germinate the seed so you get lightning fast germination. I bet it could be done with close to 100% success. Whatever zoysia comes up next year, if any, you can control with tenacity and or spot roundup.


----------



## Chris LI

LIgrass said:


> What town are you in? You still have a window to nuke the zoysia. Your chances of a solid 100% kill are better when dormancy is close. Feed the crap out of it - I'm talking 2lbs/K of fast release N. Nuke by Monday at double strength. fallow for 5-7 days, RU again. Pre-germinate the seed so you get lightning fast germination. I bet it could be done with close to 100% success. Whatever zoysia comes up next year, if any, you can control with tenacity and or spot roundup.


South shore, in Western Suffolk. It is tempting, but I don't believe that I have everything or the time to pull it off. (I have done mini-renos in late September/early October, when forced to, but that was in the backyard and protected from the sun). One of the big issues is that everything in that area is super thick and will be A Lot of material to pick up, after the scalp. I did take a suggestion and went heavy on the urea, for two reasons: just in case I decide to do it, and the urea I have is jumbo prills, so I wouldn't have good coverage with polka dotting. Stay away from Sunshine Harvest at HD.

Sunday, I dropped 1 lb N of urea on the main front and Mother Nature supplied 0.27" of rain.

Last night, I dropped 0.75 lb N of urea on the rest of the lawn and Mother Nature supplied 0.55" this morning.

Need to do PGR, De-Thatch, Rgs, and Air-8 to all areas. Also, seed and Tenacity to a few areas with Prodiamine to most other areas.


----------



## Chris LI

I was only able to get a bag mow in today. I brought the HOC back down to 2-5/8" on the main front lawn and it was a bit of a slaughter, due to the HOC change and will be overdue for PGR tomorrow (331 GDD today-range is 280-350).

Front by RV (2-5/8") and backyard (2") were within the 1/3 rule.

Hopefully, PGR app with some other goodies tomorrow.


----------



## Chris LI

PGR didn't happen yesterday with a long day at work, and I was also debating whether to spray PGR/urea or irrigate, since it looked a little dry when I got home.

Today was a no brainer. I had to water, since everything is dry again. Not surprised, though. Weekly Drought Monitor map came out and 95% of L.I. is still in stage D2-Severe Drought. No surprise, I'm in the 95%.

PGR will have to wait, along with spot seeding, PreM. This is the first day in a long time the high temperature was below 80*, at 74* with low humidity. All week has been 80-81* with lows in the mid-high 60's most of the time. Currently, it's 63* and I'm hoping for <60*.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> PGR didn't happen yesterday with a long day at work, and I was also debating whether to spray PGR/urea or irrigate, since it looked a little dry when I got home.
> 
> Today was a no brainer. I had to water, since everything is dry again. Not surprised, though. Weekly Drought Monitor map came out and 95% of L.I. is still in stage D2-Severe Drought. No surprise, I'm in the 95%.
> 
> PGR will have to wait, along with spot seeding, PreM. This is the first day in a long time the high temperature was below 80*, at 74* with low humidity. All week has been 80-81* with lows in the mid-high 60's most of the time. Currently, it's 63* and I'm hoping for <60*.


Good move, checking. Still D1 here (same as last week, but better than the week before that, so I'll take it).

I've had PGR rebound for over 2 weeks now, as I hadn't felt good and couldn't do much. Finally reapplied the other day just to counteract the rebound and get back to normal.

Hopefully the longer drought period in LI helps keep the Poa Triv that was toasted from Anuew from recovering. I have Poa Triv starting to come back here recently.


----------



## Chris LI

I ripped a few stolons of clover out and watered again tonight, as it visually needs more. I only watered the back sections (most), and watered heavily, especially under the trees. We'll see if tomorrow will be more water or PGR/urea. @Green I'm giving the triv a chance to recover slightly, before another shot of PGR. We'll see what happens.

Interestingly enough with PGR beginning some rebound, growth rates are:
Low-zoysia
Medium-kbg/TTTF 
High-prg

This doesn't surprise me, as cooler days/nights (74*/52* yesterday) (75* high today) are the trend. However, the trend will shift to a warming trend over the next few days.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> I ripped a few stolons of clover out and watered again tonight, as it visually needs more. I only watered the back sections (most), and watered heavily, especially under the trees. We'll see if tomorrow will be more water or PGR/urea. @Green I'm giving the triv a chance to recover slightly, before another shot of PGR. We'll see what happens.
> 
> Interestingly enough with PGR beginning some rebound, growth rates are:
> Low-zoysia
> Medium-kbg/TTTF
> High-prg
> 
> This doesn't surprise me, as cooler days/nights (74*/52* yesterday) (75* high today) are the trend. However, the trend will shift to a warming trend over the next few days.


I have some Triv coming back. A small clump is going to get dug out; a larger one will probably get 4oz per acre Tenacity plus half rate Sulfentrazone plus MSO as an experiment, as will a larger 1,000 square foot area. I'm sure more of it will pop up. Some of these are in areas treated with Velocity this Summer. Like Anuew, it's not 100% effective.


----------



## M32075

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> I ripped a few stolons of clover out and watered again tonight, as it visually needs more. I only watered the back sections (most), and watered heavily, especially under the trees. We'll see if tomorrow will be more water or PGR/urea. @Green I'm giving the triv a chance to recover slightly, before another shot of PGR. We'll see what happens.
> 
> Interestingly enough with PGR beginning some rebound, growth rates are:
> Low-zoysia
> Medium-kbg/TTTF
> High-prg
> 
> This doesn't surprise me, as cooler days/nights (74*/52* yesterday) (75* high today) are the trend. However, the trend will shift to a warming trend over the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> I have some Triv coming back. A small clump is going to get dug out; a larger one will probably get 4oz per acre Tenacity plus half rate Sulfentrazone plus MSO as an experiment, as will a larger 1,000 square foot area. I'm sure more of it will pop up. Some of these are in areas treated with Velocity this Summer. Like Anuew, it's not 100% effective.
Click to expand...

From what I'm reading I'll never win the battle against triv grass. If you guys are struggling with it I'm doomed.


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## Chris LI

@M32075 
From what I've read, it's a long term battle, but you can win the war. Prime time to kill it, is in the spring, when it's actively growing. Anuew seems to beat it up, but doesn't necessarily exterminate it as @Green stated. If I had bought it earlier in the season, it might have been even more effective. We'll see what happens next year. FYI-I just sprayed some more tonight. Details later.


----------



## Green

How spots? Solarized hellstrip areas recover? Still dead spots?


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> How spots? Solarized hellstrip areas recover? Still dead spots?


Triv spots are pretty dead. Other grasses seem to be filling in, in some areas. Seeding is necessary in others. I'm sure triv is still around, but is not overly obvious. Solarized hellstrip is mostly toast. Will seed and maybe throw a few plugs in to see what they can do.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> How spots? Solarized hellstrip areas recover? Still dead spots?
> 
> 
> 
> Triv spots are pretty dead. Other grasses seem to be filling in, in some areas. Seeding is necessary in others. I'm sure triv is still around, but is not overly obvious. Solarized hellstrip is mostly toast. Will seed and maybe throw a few plugs in to see what they can do.
Click to expand...

Ok. I was wondering about the hellstrip first and foremost. I'm not sure what happened to my previous post; the grammar got all messed up when I posted and I didn't notice because I didn't go back and read it.


----------



## Chris LI

It's still very dry here, but I am seeing some recovery.

Yesterday, I finally sprayed PGR, and decided to mix it with SLS 15-0-15, instead of melting down some urea. I figured that it could use some of the goodies in the 15-0-15 (kelp/humic). Rates per gallon/M are:

Front
Anuew 0.37 oz
15-0-15 8.5 oz ~0.1 N
NIS 1 tsp

Back
Anuew 0.25 oz
15-0-15 8.5 oz ~0.1 N
NIS 1 tsp

I still couldn't find my Visi-flo 0.5 nozzle (brown), and was tired of walking super slowly with the blue nozzle, I went with my Air Injection 0.5 nozzle (brown), because I plan on some soil apps soon. Droplet size is visibly larger.

Today, as I was resting and strategizing, I ordered another brown Visi-flo 0.5 nozzle and some urea online. I don't need a 50 lb. bag, since I'm stuck with the jumbo prill Sunshine Harvest junk.

I spent the rest of the day watering heavily. Probably will be ~12 hours total. Area under the trees needed a lot of water.

Observations: 

Some areas that didn't get as much water, performed better than others that had more water. This was behind the house, where more shade/no trees helped.

PRG is growing like crazy

KBG/TTTF is darkening, but growing slower

Zoysia is still growing slowly and lighter than usual, but improving


----------



## Wile

Are you plugging the dead spots or seeding them? So the areas that had less water had more shade, but not from trees?


----------



## Chris LI

Wile said:


> Are you plugging the dead spots or seeding them? So the areas that had less water had more shade, but not from trees?


1. Both. I'll have to see how much I can get done tomorrow.

2. Yes. The angle of the sun is lower, so the area behind the house, has more shade cast upon it. Without interference from tree roots, the area has recovered nicely, even though it has received less water. The area under the trees is still stressed from competition from tree roots for water (and granular fertilizer). I've kept up on my foliar apps in that area for multiple reasons, that being one of them.


----------



## Wile

Looking forward to the recovery. Had you gotten rain I wonder if those spots might have come back. Sounds like they were truly goners.

I ended up cutting huge mulch circles around my trees so that way I didn't have any competition for a while. I didn't know better when our sprinklers were put in and we weren't taking into account the fences and the shaded areas. I would have put those on different zones so that I could water less. Unfortunately, at one end of the zone they get straight sun and need to be watered.


----------



## Chris LI

@Wile 
Thanks for the support and insight. There's so much info that I've picked up from others on TLF, that I couldn't even give full credit to all contributors. I try pass on my experiences, so others can benefit from my successes and failures. Sometimes, stuff just happens and how we mitigate the situation can make a difference. I'm Darwinistic with turfgrass, but also optimistic (and I like to experiment), so that sometimes leads to unconventional methods, and I have a best bang for the buck strategy. Anyway, I made some progress today...see the next post.


----------



## Chris LI

Today, I filled in some depressions left over from the tree takedown, and seeded them with an equal 3-way blend of Mazama, Bewitched and Beyond. I hand-raked thatch from a few areas, added some topsoil to other areas (long hellstrip by RV), leveled, and scuffed them up with my small spiker, but didn't have time to seed. I punched 40 holes in the small hellstrip that was solarized, and transferred 10 plugs so far, from my favorite spot with a 3-way mini-reno of those kbgs. I hope to finish the plug transfer and seed that area, and move on to other areas. I still have to backfill the holes in the sod farm.


----------



## Chris LI

Today, I filled in some depressions left over from the tree takedown, and seeded them with an equal 3-way blend of Mazama, Bewitched and Beyond. I hand-raked thatch from a few areas, added some topsoil to other areas (long hellstrip by RV), leveled, and scuffed them up with my small spiker, but didn't have time to seed. I punched 40 holes in the small hellstrip that was solarized, and transferred 10 plugs so far, from my favorite spot with a 3-way mini-reno of those kbgs. I hope to finish the plug transfer and seed that area, and move on to other areas. I still have to backfill the holes in the sod farm.


----------



## Chris LI

Today, I filled in some depressions left over from the tree takedown, and seeded them with an equal 3-way blend of Mazama, Bewitched and Beyond. I hand-raked thatch from a few areas, added some topsoil to other areas (long hellstrip by RV), leveled, and scuffed them up with my small spiker, but didn't have time to seed. I punched 40 holes in the small hellstrip that was solarized, and transferred 10 plugs so far, from my favorite spot with a 3-way mini-reno of those kbgs. I hope to finish the plug transfer and seed that area, and move on to other areas. I still have to backfill the holes in the sod farm.


----------



## M32075

Chris LI said:


> @M32075
> From what I've read, it's a long term battle, but you can win the war. Prime time to kill it, is in the spring, when it's actively growing. Anuew seems to beat it up, but doesn't necessarily exterminate it as @Green stated. If I had bought it earlier in the season, it might have been even more effective. We'll see what happens next year. FYI-I just sprayed some more tonight. Details later.


Chris I tried private messaging you I don't think it's going through. I'm thinking about getting a irrigation system do you know of anyone that will do a install in eastern Nassau county. Any leads would be appreciated. Thanks Nick


----------



## Chris LI

M32075 said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> @M32075
> From what I've read, it's a long term battle, but you can win the war. Prime time to kill it, is in the spring, when it's actively growing. Anuew seems to beat it up, but doesn't necessarily exterminate it as @Green stated. If I had bought it earlier in the season, it might have been even more effective. We'll see what happens next year. FYI-I just sprayed some more tonight. Details later.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris I tried private messaging you I don't think it's going through. I'm thinking about getting a irrigation system do you know of anyone that will do a install in eastern Nassau county. Any leads would be appreciated. Thanks Nick
Click to expand...

Sent you a PM. Let me know if you got it.


----------



## Chris LI

I received an eBay offer for a Groundskeeper II rake today and placed the order. Also, filled in the 10 holes on my sod farm with topsoil. I still have 30 more holes in transplant areas that I need to transplant plugs too, and more seed to get down.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> I received an eBay offer for a Groundskeeper II rake today and placed the order. Also, filled in the 10 holes on my sod farm with topsoil. I still have 30 more holes in transplant areas that I need to transplant plugs too, and more seed to get down.


Nice! This rake is arguably the single best investment I made for lawn equipment after a mower. It's almost magic with what it can do and how little effort is needed. Manually dethatching the surface stuff becomes a real option. And supposedly you can replace the tines, but I haven't had to yet.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> @M32075
> From what I've read, it's a long term battle, but you can win the war. Prime time to kill it, is in the spring, when it's actively growing. Anuew seems to beat it up, but doesn't necessarily exterminate it as @Green stated. If I had bought it earlier in the season, it might have been even more effective. We'll see what happens next year. FYI-I just sprayed some more tonight. Details later.


Nick: Best thing to do is keep the lawn a bit on the drier side as much as possible. This really helps prevent it from spreading as much, unless you get a really wet Fall or Spring. If you have irrigation installed at some point, you can figure out how to do that with the system over the parts of the season that need irrigation.


----------



## Chris LI

Green said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> I received an eBay offer for a Groundskeeper II rake today and placed the order. Also, filled in the 10 holes on my sod farm with topsoil. I still have 30 more holes in transplant areas that I need to transplant plugs too, and more seed to get down.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice! This rake is arguably the single best investment I made for lawn equipment after a mower. It's almost magic with what it can do and how little effort is needed. Manually dethatching the surface stuff becomes a real option. And supposedly you can replace the tines, but I haven't had to yet.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I've done well with all sorts of raking (leaves, topsoil, thatch, pine needles, etc.) with my long handled, cushion grip steel leaf/fan rake with a Vigoro name logo on it for years, but have been interested in this rake for 2-3 years. From what I gather, it excels at pine needles and thatch, which is why I pulled the trigger on the purchase. I saw replacement tine kits on Amazon, so that was gravy, because there's nothing worse than breaking a tine on on a rake (I have 3 😁 for that reason). I just hope the G2 has a long enough handle at 55".


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> I received an eBay offer for a Groundskeeper II rake today and placed the order. Also, filled in the 10 holes on my sod farm with topsoil. I still have 30 more holes in transplant areas that I need to transplant plugs too, and more seed to get down.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice! This rake is arguably the single best investment I made for lawn equipment after a mower. It's almost magic with what it can do and how little effort is needed. Manually dethatching the surface stuff becomes a real option. And supposedly you can replace the tines, but I haven't had to yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks! I've done well with all sorts of raking (leaves, topsoil, thatch, pine needles, etc.) with my long handled, cushion grip steel leaf/fan rake with a Vigoro name logo on it for years, but have been interested in this rake for 2-3 years. From what I gather, it excels at pine needles and thatch, which is why I pulled the trigger on the purchase. I saw replacement tine kits on Amazon, so that was gravy, because there's nothing worse than breaking a tine on on a rake (I have 3 😁 for that reason). I just hope the G2 has a long enough handle at 55".
Click to expand...

The handle is long enough in comparison to the rake part that someone of average height can easily grip it and use it on an angle, which is necessary for dethatching. If someone is much over 6', it's possible it might not be as comfortable or they won't get as good leverage. But personally it fits me well and I've never wished the handle was longer (or shorter).

I think you can do custom handles, though.

I haven't really touched my standard dethatching rake since getting this. Some argue that thatch is below the soil surface, and the surface stuff is not, but I don't see a reason to dig in below the surface with a machine. Other times, just getting dead grass out and not even scratching the surface is enough. But it's night and day between this and other rakes for these uses.


----------



## Butter

Groundskeeper rakes are the best! I have the wider one and the narrow one. The narrow one is really good at raking out small spots to spot seed.


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## Baretta

Groundskeeper is in my top 5 lawn tools for sure. Amazing how well it works. @Butter Wish I had the narrow one for that exact purpose.


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## Chris LI

@Green 
@Butter 
@Baretta 
Thanks, guys! Tracking shows that it should arrive on Tuesday. I'm excited to use it. We had some dry leaves come down with a windy day the other day, as Fiona passed by out in the Atlantic. We had winds from the north, so it will come in handy to rake up pine needles from the neighbor's tree.

I finished moving plugs the other day, but I need to buy more topsoil to backfill a bunch of holes in my sod farm, and for areas I need to level. Peat moss has been hanging out in my truck for a week now, so I need to get some seed down and cover it.

Temps moderated on the cool side the last few days. Low for Friday night was 48*. High today was 68*. We just had a rainstorm come through and drop 0.33" so far, with more expected to come.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> @Green
> @Butter
> @Baretta
> Thanks, guys! Tracking shows that it should arrive on Tuesday. I'm excited to use it. We had some dry leaves come down with a windy day the other day, as Fiona passed by out in the Atlantic. We had winds from the north, so it will come in handy to rake up pine needles from the neighbor's tree.
> 
> I finished moving plugs the other day, but I need to buy more topsoil to backfill a bunch of holes in my sod farm, and for areas I need to level. Peat moss has been hanging out in my truck for a week now, so I need to get some seed down and cover it.
> 
> Temps moderated on the cool side the last few days. Low for Friday night was 48*. High today was 68*. We just had a rainstorm come through and drop 0.33" so far, with more expected to come.


Now after learning there are several other sizes, I need to try to buy one. I've been struggling all this time using the big one at an angle to rake out smaller spots for seeding. It still works but seems to bend it a bit too much. I need to figure out whether the 6 or 9 inch one is best.

By the way, I walked quite extensive Zoysia covered terrain yesterday at a funeral service. I was impressed with it. I'll add some photos at some point. It felt stiffer and more durable than cool season lawns. I don't know if it was a mix of different cultivars or what. Some blades were wide like KY-31 while some were fairly fine. Some had lots of leaf hairs on their surface while others appeared to have none. Most or all had a fairly defined crease in the middle them, but I've seen other Zoysia that doesn't have it to that extent. I'm not sure how this all compares to your particular Zoysia. Really starting to wonder if this is going to be used more in out area as temps get warmer, but then I remember it'll soon be brown for 6 months, and that even down South that's an issue for months every Winter.


----------



## Chris LI

I'm catching up on my journal...

Over the course of the week, I made some fall progress:

Groundskeeper II rake arrived and put into use to dethatch some areas of kbg and other areas of mixed grasses
Kbg/Prg 60/40 seed dropped right of the RV and hellstrips on same side after raking and topsoil addition
Prg/Kbg 90/10 dropped left side of RV next to trees (in impossible to grow area), after raking and mini-spiking (love that spiker tool)
100% tri-rye dropped in backyard in triv area and shed areas after raking
Spot seeded depressions filled with topsoil near removed tree germinated (100% kbg-Bewitched/Mazama/Beyond) 
All areas covered with peat moss last night
No time for Tenacity in seeded areas and missed the window for Prodiamine in established areas, so apps were missed
Tuesday, I dropped 0.75 lbs N of urea on all areas (using up almost all jumbo-sized prills, and saving rest for liquid apps)
New urea order from Duda Energy arrived, and was mini-prills 
Need to check GDD for PGR and reapply to non-seeded areas and also avoid slow growth area under trees in backyard 
@Green
@Butter 
@Baretta 
The Groundskeeper II is awesome!!! I'm trying to not get addicted.


----------



## Green

Chris LI said:


> I'm catching up on my journal...
> 
> Over the course of the week, I made some fall progress:
> 
> Groundskeeper II rake arrived and put into use to dethatch some areas of kbg and other areas of mixed grasses
> Kbg/Prg 60/40 seed dropped right of the RV and hellstrips on same side after raking and topsoil addition
> Prg/Kbg 90/10 dropped left side of RV next to trees (in impossible to grow area), after raking and mini-spiking (love that spiker tool)
> 100% tri-rye dropped in backyard in triv area and shed areas after raking
> Spot seeded depressions filled with topsoil near removed tree germinated (100% kbg-Bewitched/Mazama/Beyond)
> All areas covered with peat moss last night
> No time for Tenacity in seeded areas and missed the window for Prodiamine in established areas, so apps were missed
> Tuesday, I dropped 0.75 lbs N of urea on all areas (using up almost all jumbo-sized prills, and saving rest for liquid apps)
> New urea order from Duda Energy arrived, and was mini-prills
> Need to check GDD for PGR and reapply to non-seeded areas and also avoid slow growth area under trees in backyard
> @Green
> @Butter
> @Baretta
> The Groundskeeper II is awesome!!! I'm trying to not get addicted.


Glad you like the rake. I think I need a narrower one, too, since spot seeding pre-raking is the main use of it for me. Now that Butter informed me there are multiple sizes...

Did you manage to get rid of some of the Triv? Was it green? It should be fully recovered by now; we got more rain, but if recovered here almost a month ago, and is now very easy to spot once again. 

I'm contemplating still doing a bit of seeding, even though it's several weeks too late here for guaranteed results.


----------



## Chris LI

@Green 
I believe that I took out some of the triv with the first shot of PGR. Successive apps did not knock any of it back further, but at least some appears to be gone. Great seeding weather in the 50's to 60's, with mild precipitation. On that note, 0.20" yesterday, and 0.10" so far today/tonight. We'll see if the prg overseed, with a little kbg in the area will help fill it in.


----------



## Chris LI

Precipitation total updated from 0.10" to 0.16".

Yesterday-today delivered 0.44" of rain. We had a good, slow, soaking. Our drought stage was still the same on last Thursday's report (D2), but I'm sure that it will be downgraded for this Thursday's report. Rain is predicted to continue today through tomorrow, so I'll have to figure out when I can mow.


----------



## Chris LI

Received ~0.33" of precipitation yesterday. My weather station rain gauge is a running 24-hour count, so it is difficult to track daily amounts when is rains constantly for 5-6 days in a row. I've been trying to check at the same time each day.

It's still wet outside, so I may need to hold off on a mow today. We'll see.

According to GDD, it's still within regulation, but the urea really kicked in. First spot seeding of 100% kbg in the tree removal impressions germinated. I'm still waiting for the seeding on Friday to pop. The constant light rain has been helpful, but the unseasonably cool temperatures haven't been conducive to germination. They're up to 64* so far today, so that's helpful.


----------



## Green

Good to hear some of the Triv was torched fully. I'm looking forward to using the product next year with that bonus effect.

I don't think I can do any more seed here. It's just too cold and too late in the season. Hopefully the rest of what was planted over a week ago germinates soon. Plug transplants from this point, and then more seeding in March or April.


----------



## Chris LI

@Green 
Yup, I think we're near the end of the seeding season. I probably have one more week after your last possible seeding. Last night's rain was ~0.62". Got out of work late today, so tomatoes will be the next mow.


----------



## Chris LI

@macattack 
I definitely see a parallel between our hobbies. I love Lemon Boys, Sweet 100's and Cherokee Purples. I couldn't find a CP this year and went with a Black Krim. As promised with a cluttered counter... 🤣


----------



## macattack

Chris LI said:


> @macattack
> I definitely see a parallel between our hobbies. I love Lemon Boys, Sweet 100's and Cherokee Purples. I couldn't find a CP this year and went with a Black Krim. As promised with a cluttered counter... 🤣


Looks great Chris Li! I had a couple pepper plants, didn't do as well as other years. I need to do more research into the problem, as i have grown large red, orange and yellow bell peppers before at a previous house. The raised beds, not so much. Waiting and learning on how not to grow brussel sprouts. And my carrot harvest was pathetic, i got over 22# last year, this year maybe 4#. Despite the early heat wave which crushed the crops here, i am on month 5 of harvesting those tomatoes. Haha, cluttered counter. Its a running joke in my house.


----------



## Chris LI

@macattack 
Thanks! Growing grass is for the eyes and growing vegetables is for the belly to fuel the body to take care of the grass! Practice makes perfect for both (and a bit of knowledge and skill). Over the years I've noticed that all sorts of variables will affect anything I grow. If you can go back and log what you did, when you did it, and what the growing conditions were at each stage, that may help you figure it out. Peppers like heat, especially hot peppers. If the temperatures were a little below average, that might be a factor. My MIL complained that she could not grow okra for several years. I told her that it needs heat and lots of sunlight. The next year, she planted some in pots on our front concrete steps, which is brutally sunny and hot, and voila, she had a nice crop. She complained about her blueberries not doing well, so I told her that they like acidic soil...added some Espoma Holly Tone and, they're doing better. You're completely right about doing some more HW.


----------



## Chris LI

Woke up yesterday to find this...










Retaliated with this...










Let those critters get a snoot full.

At least that was the triv farm.


----------



## Chris LI

Yesterday, I applied some new, nicely sized prills of urea from Duda Energy (probably = greens grade SGN), at 0.5 lbs N over the entire yard, slightly varying amounts. Seeded areas received a little less and areas under the trees received a little more. Later, I melted down that 🤬 Sunshine Harvest jumbo prilled urea in my 2 qt hand pump sprayer at 0.1 lbs N ~500 sq ft under the trees, to help fight against the tree roots robbing N. Watered almost all areas in last night (under trees ~4 hours after the app).

Today, I mulch mowed the front only at 2-5/8", because it needed it. Avoided seeded areas. 3/4 of the backyard doesn't need it. Rain is predicted tomorrow, so everything should get a good soaking.


----------



## bf7

I love the jump from Sunshine Harvest directly to greens grade. Not messing around this time.


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## Chris LI

bf7 said:


> I love the jump from Sunshine Harvest directly to greens grade. Not messing around this time.


Thanks! Yeah, I got really lucky. I don't have the time to run to the turf supplier or storage for a full 50 lb. bag, so I looked around online for the best prices/smallest prills by photos, and I think the prills were smaller in actuality than the photos depicted. A big  to Duda Energy.

I have enough for one more app, and will probably switch to AS for 1-2 apps for the last ones of the season.


----------



## Chris LI

Received 1.32" of precipitation yesterday from dusk to late night. I took a flashlight photo around that time, before it really came down. 









The storm brought down a bunch of leaves and the lawn is on overdrive mode right now, with very good temperatures (~70* High/low 50's Low), so I had to mow today. Double cut the front on both sides, mulching @ 2-5/8" with the Ninja blade. Back was single cut @ 2". Seeded areas are starting to fill in.


----------



## Chris LI

I haven't posted photos in a bit, so there's a lot for today's update. I hit the max of 10 photos per post, so here's the rest of the photo dump:


----------



## Chris LI

Sprinkled some TSP on the spot seeded areas after work today.


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## Chris LI

I found a good online price for AS today and placed an order for 30 lbs. I might have enough on hand to finish out the season, but I wasn't taking a chance.


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## Chris LI

AS arrived quickly yesterday. Last evening, I got tired of looking at the brown Zoysia that had become thick and thatchy, so I broke out the Groundskeeper II rake and went to town. This morning, my wife was leaving for work, and popped her head back inside the front door and asked if I did something to the lawn (she didn't know I raked it out).






















































Anyway, I spent quite awhile sharpening the newer Gator blade today, correcting the angle and balancing it. I swapped out the Ninja blade in favor of the Gator and took off the bagging chute, in favor of the side discharge chute. A quick edge with the string trimmer and I was off to mulch everything in together, to get all of my "greens" and "browns" to break down together, while the biological activity is still strong (temps rising over the next week-high 60's). I got brave and lowered HOC in the front to 2". I lost some color, but got more "greens" in the mix and it should thicken up. I didn't have time to spread some fert, but tomorrow's another day. I decided to go with AS, and save the urea for the spring.


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## bf7

Excellent recovery on the hell strip. Not so hellish anymore!


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## macattack

You sticking with the zoysia, or will you renovate that away? Its super durable, easy to take care of. I could let the whole backyard go to it, and do some reel mowing, but a long way from that.


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## Chris LI

bf7 said:


> Excellent recovery on the hell strip. Not so hellish anymore!


Thanks! They can be resilient. The ones on the RV side were originally 100% TTTF when I renovated them a few years ago, and then overseeded with mixtures of TTTF/KBG, and this time with KBG/PRG because I ran out of TTTF and wasn't planning on buying more. The PRG will probably roast, but hopefully the KBG will survive and fill in TTTF dieoff in the future. I also have a few KBG plugs in the short hellstrip. We'll see what happens.


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## Chris LI

macattack said:


> You sticking with the zoysia, or will you renovate that away? Its super durable, easy to take care of. I could let the whole backyard go to it, and do some reel mowing, but a long way from that.


Eventually, I would like to renovate it and replace with 100% kbg. It's the bane of my existence, but serves a purpose on the hellstrip, which gets cooked every summer. I just don't have the time to renovate it at that time of year, with work demands.


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## Chris LI

I dropped 0.5 lbs N/M of AS on Saturday night just after sunset. Light rain started yesterday afternoon and stopped overnight with 0.14" of precipitation. Rain started up again this morning with a light rain and couple of heavy showers and paused with a grand total so far of 0.33" including yesterday (24-hour rain gauge on weather station). We're due for some more but this got it watered in. Lower HOC/violation of the 1/3 rule lost a little color, but was worth it as a reset cut and to get that 🤬 Zoysia thatch up. Had I done it earlier, I would have dropped some prg seed in the Zoysia, to see what it might do.


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## Chris LI

24-hour rain total ~0.62". The grass is growing like gangbusters! The front grew 1"-1.5" and the back grew 0.75"-1.25" in 4 days. I checked to see how much mulched OM broke down and it seemed like most of it did. Last night's low was 64* and today hit 75*. It'll be mild the next few days so...

I've been thinking of experimenting with overseeding prg into the Zoysia to try to green it up a bit until it fries in the summer (just to mess with it ), so I bagged everything @2" in the front and mulched the backyard (with the Gator), after using the Groundskeeper II to remove more thatch from the Zoysia. I picked up a little tri-rye and might drop some tomorrow for the helluvit. I had ended my PGR apps for the season, but now I'm reconsidering another app for the front.


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## Chris LI

It was too wet yesterday to drop the tri-rye seed into the Zoysia for my impulsive experiment, so I spread it today at sunset, when the wind died down. I'm not expecting much. It was more of a symbolic measure of flipping the bird at the Zoysia for obvious reasons and not so obvious reasons. Less obvious, is that I was returning the gesture after it tapped out extra early this year and flipped me off first. Usually, I can keep it looking pretty good with fertility until our average first frost (10/31-11/1). It's been milder than usual this time of year (70's several days this week and 67* today), but a cold snap at the end of September scared the Zoysia back into its roots.

The AS kicked and the cool season turf is super dark blue/green. I've mentioned previously that my beloved Bewitched does not work as a monostand for me, and that my 3-way kbg blend performs much better. I think that Bewitched does not have an aggressive rooting ability, because it struggles under my trees as a monostand. This photo is of a 4'x4' section of a Bewitched mono from several years ago when we took down the kids' playground. It struggles every year in the fall. I think it's prone to rust and doesn't have enough root system to compete with the tree roots.


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## Green

Chris LI said:


> This photo is of a 4'x4' section of a Bewitched mono from several years ago when we took down the kids' playground. It struggles every year in the fall. I think it's prone to rust...


I think so, too:








Bewitched and Rust


Folks ... how many of you all with bewitched have issues with rust fungus? I thought this variety was somewhat improved against rust? Anyway I have been battling from late summer into fall each year since my bewitched reno. It is annoying and really thins out the stand.




www.thelawnforum.com





I have Bewitched mixed into, oh, probably most areas...and everything gets rust. I'm not blaming it just on the fact that Bewitched is mixed in, but it certainly doesn't help.

On the other hand, fine fescue may be fairly resistant to rust. My areas with a lot of it have less rust, and look pretty good.

Two years ago, the rust was so bad that it thinned out the grass in some areas, and made it go brown/dormant in the late Fall. I ended having to overseed a section the following Spring. Because of that, I've been using Propiconazole on all of those areas in late Summer or Fall, whenever needed, for at least two years now. It actually seems to improve the disease over time. There's less this year than last year, for example. I'll probably keep using it every year.


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## jskierko

Good info @Green and @Chris LI! My Bewitched has a fair amount of rust on my collars, but my reel mowed areas all show no signs of it whatsoever. I guess the longer grass just isn't drying out enough during the daytime. It is markedly worse in my collars that get just filtered sunlight at most this time of year. I need to be better about late season antifungals, as my last application was over a month ago. My Bewitched also struggles later in the year around the trees.


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## Chris LI

Got a mulch mow in yesterday and raised HOC for both front and backyard to 2-5/8", to allow leaves to fit under the deck, not to mention it's still growing like wildfire. 

After, I did my traditional Halloween fert drop. Opened and tried the new to me AS from K4L. Unfortunately, it's large prills, close to the jumbo urea, but not quite as bad. Went with a heavy drop of 0.75 lbs/N per M, for better coverage. This will also become my foliar spray like the jumbo urea. Grass already grew 1 in since yesterday. I skipped mowing the Zoysia hellstrip, so any prg seed isn't disturbed. Leaves are heavy in the back, as usual this time of year. Avg 1st frost is now, but no frost in sight, with temps around 70*.


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## Chris LI

Above normal temps have kept the grass in overdrive, with the AS. Highs were 70*, 70", 66* and today 73*. First frost still nowhere in sight, but the leaves are coming down on schedule. Backyard trees pretty much will drop 90% of their leaves in one week. About 75% were down today, so I mulched them with the Gator blade and mulch plug in @2-5/8". Mostly doubles passes in the backyard with a few triples, and mostly single passes in the front with a few doubles. Cool season grasses are spreading and filling in, with the Zoysia patches seemingly shrinking, everso slightly. There's a little more green throughout them. I still haven't mowed the Zoysia hellstrip, to see if any prg seed takes. Warm, moist temps are conducive to the leaf mulch breaking down. I will end mulching soon and switch to bagging, so I have enough for the vegetable garden. Also, that will help reduce the amount of unbroken down particles, smothering the lawn.


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## macattack

Chris LI said:


> First frost still nowhere in sight, but the leaves are coming down on schedule.


That seems really late for the northeast. Yes we got 5 more good days here and then reality sets in. I see snow in the forecast the 16th and 17th, very unusual for MO. The weather here can be "unpredictable".


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## Chris LI

macattack said:


> That seems really late for the northeast. Yes we got 5 more good days here and then reality sets in. I see snow in the forecast the 16th and 17th, very unusual for MO. The weather here can be "unpredictable".


Yes, currently it is a bit late. I'm very close to the ocean ~4 miles and even less to the Great South Bay (~2 miles). Our average first frost date is 10/31-11/1. We had a sensational day today (77*) which is highly unusual. Tonight/tomorrow the temps will plummet, with a high around 50*, which is on the lower side.

I have today and tomorrow off, so I had reservations to play golf today for the first time in about 5 years. However, tomorrow is back to lawn care and mulching leaves.


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## Chris LI

Last night was 48*, and today's high was 59*. That's not too bad. After sleeping in for the first time in a long time, got myself going slowly, but surely. 😅 I was pretty sore, but a hot shower various pain creams did the trick. After various chores/errands, I finally got to mulching leaves after dark with the headlamp. 🤣 A lot came down so it took longer than I thought (2.5 hours), but the front looks great, and the backyard is OK. Those little red maple leaves like to run away from the mower blade. 

Anyway, this might be the last time I mulch. I don't have the supply of leaves I used to (with the tree removal), so I need to make sure I have enough for the vegetable garden, and I want to switch over to bagging earlier, to reduce the amount of unbroken down leaf mulch at the end of the season. Turf growth is strong, so I had a mix of browns and greens in my mulch mix. Color is very dark and the cool season grasses continue to creep back into the Zoysia. Overall, my outlook is positive on the season. After the Zoysia went dormant extra early, I was pretty bummed, but the turf has really improved across the board. Areas are filling in and the AS has kicked it into overdrive with the mild temperatures. I'll be lowering HOC soon, since a lot of the leaves are down, and I want to get there sooner than later, while there's time for it to tiller and spread.


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## Chris LI

Yesterday, I squeezed one last leaf mulching session in just as it began to rain. What a mess! I was considering bagging, but my back was acting up, so that squashed that idea. I did a fairly good blowout of the front beds, too. Temps are predicted to be a little warm, so I'm trying to get everything to break down before they drop during the week (69* yesterday and already 71* today). I'll be bagging hereon out.


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## macattack

3" of snow here, cold. Time for inside projects. Brussel sprouts picking day too, plant leaves really took a hit, supposed to make them better. Did you pick all your tomatoes yet?


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## Chris LI

macattack said:


> 3" of snow here, cold. Time for inside projects. Brussel sprouts picking day too, plant leaves really took a hit, supposed to make them better. Did you pick all your tomatoes yet?


Last harvest was late this afternoon as the sun was about to set. We may finally get our first frost tonight or tomorrow night (most likely tomorrow night), which is well overdue. Hopefully, the cold spell your having will not be too long, and you can enjoy the rest of fall before old man winter arrives for good.


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## Chris LI

Happy Thanksgiving, all! I've been a bit behind with lawn/yard work with traveling for work last week (rare). 

Note to self (and anyone interested) : It was a mistake to mulch all those leaves I mentioned in my last update. They clumped miserably, which defeated the purpose of breaking down. Not to mention, whatever didn’t clump, stuck to the bottom of the deck. I should have put the side discharge chute on, since I wasn't able to bag that day (bad back). 

Moving forward, leaves were still a little on the heavier side, so I bag mowed with the same blade (newer Gator) on Tuesday at 2-5/8". Still good clipping production with avg height ~4". The Gator has good suction for a mulching blade, but I'll need to switch back to the high lift blade (or super high lift blade with "air lifts") to get up all the wet, compacted leaf mulch. Leaves are still hanging on the trees (not just oaks, and some still have a little green on them), so we're not nearly done with leaf season. I passed through NYC and parts north during my work travel and all the leaves are down, north of the city.

Yesterday, I chased daylight to finish trimming the Arborvitaes and English Ivy, but ran out of time and energy to put an extension pole on the PAS. FYI-I pre and post-gamed with a capsule of Willow Bark extract and Arnicare tablets, which worked well, despite forgetting the back brace I bought the other day. I took some more this morning and the soreness is almost gone. 

No photos of the trim job yet, but the tri-rye is starting to fill in the Zoysia spots a little.


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## Green

Cool how the Ryegrass is coming in in the Zoysia. Do you think it'll take long term?

At my family member's in coastal zone 7a today, I checked out the neighboring yard's Zoysia at the border. The blades I looked at were still green! Just a tiny hint of browning tips at the very tops of them. Would yours still be green now if it wasn't mowed?


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## Chris LI

Green said:


> Cool how the Ryegrass is coming in in the Zoysia. Do you think it'll take long term?
> 
> At my family member's in coastal zone 7a today, I checked out the neighboring yard's Zoysia at the border. The blades I looked at were still green! Just a tiny hint of browning tips at the very tops of them. Would yours still be green now if it wasn't mowed?


No, I don't think it will survive long term. Between pressure from the Zoysia and heat stress. However, my goal was to have better color this fall through next spring, until the Zoysia greens up. It's more of an experiment/temporary mitigation of the premature dormancy of the Zoysia. 

I need to take a closer look at the Zoysia, to see if it resumed any growth. I know a bulk of the green I saw in the Zoysia patches were PRG seedlings because they were so finely bladed and quick growing. However, I believe that I saw a few Zoysia blades still retaining some green.


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## Chris LI

Here's my year end wrapup:

Weather, lack of sunlight/time and the flu slowed yardwork down since my last post. I trimmed the Arborvitaes, and eventually picked up the clippings a week or two later in early December. Rain (at least not snow) held me up from lawn work during early December and the flu knocked us all out for a week and a half (no outside Xmas lights this year). We recovered in time, so Christmas was great and the weather was conducive to final mow/fall cleanup on the lawn (bagged @2") the last couple of days (veggie garden still needs to be broken down, though). Anyway, final 2022 photos are below.

The main takeaways from this year are:

Go back to my original methodology of early Spring fertilizer and avoiding heavier late spring fertilizer, and basically zero in the summer, to severely restrict nutrients from the Zoysia while it's actively growing. I've actually encouraged the Zoysia invasion with my practices the last couple of years. With no Zoysia in the backyard, I'll probably stay with a similar program. I'll probably raise HOC a little sooner in the spring to allow the cool season grasses to stay a bit ahead of the Zoysia.

Ryegrass is not the enemy, but a tool. I will continue to use it as needed. It has helped in difficult to grow areas for kbg.

PGR is a huge asset. It will continue to be a great addition to my program.

Happy New Year to all! Good luck in 2023!


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## macattack

That zoysia is quite extensive. Mowing tall has kept my zoysia at bay in the backyard, and I also skipped a summer app of fertilizer. Nuking it is only option if you want to go to KBG. I am willing to accept zoysia in the backyard for durability only, and I might get to reel mowing someday.


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## Green

Nice post. Great to hear everyone is over the flu and you were able to get the yard stuff done. I'm still holding out hope for a final cleanup early next week in the front using a mower and bagging myself, but we'll see.

Ryegrass is a great tool. So is PGR. and the groundskeeper rake, no doubt. And so are Tenacity/Pylex...don't forget those for keeping the Zoysia from spreading next year. It can be used strategically without messing everything up, as you've seen.

Hope not all of the Triv came back. 

Also, I'll let you know what I find out about Bewitched seed in the late Winter or so, if you still end up needing some. As of now, they're still cleaning it, with availability sometime next year, and a lot of it likely to be sod quality, even if not sold as such by some retailers.

Have a great new year.


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