# Swardman Electra or Edwin



## Tx_LawnNerd (May 12, 2020)

So some of you may be aware of the delays with Electra's shipping out. I want to start by saying that i feel Reel Rollers is doing business the right way and while I am bummed about the delay I am not upset with Reel Rollers or Swardman.

That being said I have been given the option of waiting longer for the Electra (mid Aug) or to switch to the Edwin 2.1. Didn't know if anyone on here had experience with both and cared to weigh in if I should hold out for the Electra or just switch to the Edwin and get to reel mowing. I think I will be happy with either machine but was really happy with the option of near silent mowing since I get an early start and the lack of maintenance. Thoughts?

My yard is just under 8k sqft and is primarily Bermuda with a small amount of Zeon in a shady area that will be laid as soon as the sod farms dry out.


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## Awar (Feb 25, 2019)

*ALL* my yard & lawn tools are cordless/electric but I still chose to pick up an Edwin 2.1 over the Electra. I've had two cordless mowers (Black & Decker 40V and then EGO 56V), two cordless string trimmers, cordless edger, blower, hedge trimmer, chainsaw, sheers, backpack sprayer, etc... You can tell I love battery powered tools but when it came to buying a reel mower I decided to go with gas.

Two factors affected my decision: (1) price and (2) I did not want to take a risk with loss of battery life or electronics issues on such an expensive piece of equipment.

I've had two Ryobi 18V batteries totally die, one Ryobi 40V battery totally die, and one of my EGO 56V batteries appears to have lost some of its life. Imagine that happening to my reel mower battery! I wasn't willing to take a chance. I'd rather maintain a tried & tested gas engine.


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## Lp_chazychaz (Jun 15, 2020)

I went with the Edwin 2.1 a couple weeks ago after dealing with the same decision. It said July 20 when I ordered and I haven't heard anything so I guess around then I'll hear something. Most reel mowers are gas and gas tools are usually very reliable is what went into my decision. Hopefully we will hear something soon on when the edwins will ship out!


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## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

For me the delay for the Electra isn't a big deal. I'm already waiting 6 weeks, what's two more?

I went with the Electra because I typically cut my grass at or a little before 6 am and don't want to disturb neighbors.

I hadn't considered what would happen if 5 years from now the batteries start sh*tting the bed. That would be a catastrophic disaster for Swardman and an all around bad situation for both Edwin and Electra users (I'm assuming Swardman wouldn't survive it, leaving us with a lack of parts, cartridges, and support).


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Kamauxx said:


> For me the delay for the Electra isn't a big deal. I'm already waiting 6 weeks, what's two more?
> 
> I went with the Electra because I typically cut my grass at or a little before 6 am and don't want to disturb neighbors.
> 
> I hadn't considered what would happen if 5 years from now the batteries start sh*tting the bed. That would be a catastrophic disaster for Swardman and an all around bad situation for both Edwin and Electra users (I'm assuming Swardman wouldn't survive it, leaving us with a lack of parts, cartridges, and support).


I'm sure many of us TLF'rs are handy enough to assemble a replacement battery pack for the mower.


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## DuncanMcDonuts (May 5, 2019)

@Austinite had an Edwin before ordering an Electra. He has a few videos on YouTube, but I recall him saying the Electra's electric motor felt stronger than the Edwin. He uses both, but the Electra became the primary.


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## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

MasterMech said:


> Kamauxx said:
> 
> 
> > For me the delay for the Electra isn't a big deal. I'm already waiting 6 weeks, what's two more?
> ...


Undoubtedly there are people that can repair a broken mower, that's not what I'm arguing.

What I'm saying is I don't think Swardman could absorb the negative publicity or financial impact of their $3k+ product becoming a paper weight. Potential buyers of Swardman gas and electric mowers will lose confidence in the company. Sales would dry up.

Anyway, hopefully Swardman has overbuilt the batteries and we never have to worry about such a situation. No matter how mechanically inclined I consider myself to be I have no interest in replacing the battery on a broken $3,600 Electra.


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

Batteries are consumables and will need to be replaced every so often. I'm sure that the batteries on the Swards have a warranty. I don't think bad batteries would be anything catastrophic at all, so far the customer service reviews of Reelrollers has been nothing short of fantastic.

With battery powered equipment, you've got to factor in the long term cost of batteries vs gas, oil, and your time and convenience.


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## Brou (Jun 18, 2020)

Gilley11 said:


> Batteries are consumables and will need to be replaced every so often. I'm sure that the batteries on the Swards have a warranty. I don't think bad batteries would be anything catastrophic at all, so far the customer service reviews of Reelrollers has been nothing short of fantastic.
> 
> With battery powered equipment, you've got to factor in the long term cost of batteries vs gas, oil, and your time and convenience.


When I ordered mine I did so under the assumption that the battery would last longer than me.

Per Swardman's website, the battery should last 10,000 charging cycles. If I mow twice a week for 40 weeks a year that should last me 125 years. If the battery has *half* the lifespan that they claim it should still last until I'm over 100 years old. As far as I'm concerned I'd be disappointed if the battery lasts anywhere under 30 years (less than a quarter of the advertised lifespan).

So far, from what I've seen both Swardman and Reelrollers have been wonderful to their customers. Their customer service + the battery life claims were huge factors in my decision to buy the battery version.


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

Kamauxx said:


> When I ordered mine I did so under the assumption that the battery would last longer than me.


No matter what the longevity claims are, that's a mighty bold assumption. Those charging cycle claims are under perfect laboratory (conditioned, controlled) conditions. Real life is way different.

I'm just going off of my personal experience with all things battery powered. No matter what I bet you'll be happy with the choice, I'd love to have an Electra.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

I have an Electra, and have never used an Edwin. But I am a computer engineer and wanted to chime in on some of the comments above.

The batteries and the mower body are not the weakest link in the Electra's design. The power train and "bones" of the mower are solid and will no doubt last 20+ years in a non-commercial application.

*Instead, the control system is the Electra's weak link.* Dusty, humid, outdoor environments are really tough on electronics. Failures in the Electra are most likely to be in the exposed "control panel" board at the handle top and the several boards inside the body where the battery resides. The body is not sealed and dust and moisture do get inside. Once any of these board fails, then you basically have a paper weight (or a significant electronics design project).

The good news is a that circuit boards and relays are cheap and easy to replace. You might need to solder something, but most connections inside are plug-n-play. The hardest part of the "repair" is removing the body cover. My first mod to my Electra will be to replace those stupid "security" Torx screws!

The bad news is that when something shuts down the world's electronics supply-chain (like oh I don't known, a freak global pandemic), then you can go two or three months waiting for parts to arrive. But that applies to any consumer gadget more complex than a shovel. We might have more dire issues than being unable to mow while a virus is rampaging through the world.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

Oh, I forgot to add that the Electra's two main advantages over gas mowers is not silence or lack of vibration.



Infinite variable walking speed is awesome. I can't emphasize this feature enough if you have a small lawn with lots of curves or obstacles to navigate around. If you have a large, flat golf green lawn, then speed control and maneuverability are irrelevant.



The Electra's "Beast Mode" is awesome. The constant, super-fast cartridge rotation makes scalping, de-thatching, and "scarifying" (or whatever that attachment is called) go much quicker. Grass and dirt literally fountain into the catch bin.


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## Jimefam (Jun 22, 2018)

Gilley11 said:


> Kamauxx said:
> 
> 
> > When I ordered mine I did so under the assumption that the battery would last longer than me.
> ...


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

@hsvtoolfool how about coating the boards with conformal epoxy?


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## Tx_LawnNerd (May 12, 2020)

@hsvtoolfool I am in the same boat. I think the batteries and motors are less of a concern for me then the boards themselves. I can swap an electric motor or find a battery distributor pretty easy if it came to that but would personally struggle with the boards. Done some blinky boards in the past but nothing much more than a prototype board for some RFID locks using arduino.

There is something to be said about gas and that anyone can rebuild a gas engine but substantially fewer who could rebuild the board components should they fail. I am thinking I am going to wait a little longer for the electra just because I like to start mowing early to beat the heat and I also know I am bad about changing the oil on my lawn equipment and don't want to neglect my new reel mower right out of the gate.

I really enjoyed reading everyones take on the situation and their thoughts on which to choose.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

Gilley11 said:


> @hsvtoolfool how about coating the boards with conformal epoxy?


I agree. The boards should be coated, especially in the deep South. I may be wrong, but they don't appear to use any protective coatings. No doubt it's an expensive process.


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## Gilley11 (Nov 3, 2019)

Not expensive at all. You can get all kinds of electronic safe epoxy really cheap....but tbh I've coated plenty of boards with just regular old generic epoxy. Just make sure that you use a clear product and don't use anything with metal in it (jb weld, etc).

I've also used this, which is actually labeled for PCB's. https://www.amazon.com/Epoxyseal-Electronic-Grade-Potting-Epoxy/dp/B00VXV9YZ2/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=Epoxy+for+electronics&qid=1593121258&sr=8-5


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

If you epoxy coat a board, don't you get yourself into the paradox of not being able to easily repair it? It should last longer but should it fail...

What about heat?


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## Tx_LawnNerd (May 12, 2020)

MasterMech said:


> If you epoxy coat a board, don't you get yourself into the paradox of not being able to easily repair it? It should last longer but should it fail...
> 
> What about heat?


Heat dissipation was my concern with applying epoxy to a board that didn't have it from the manufacturer.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

The mil-spec conformal coatings my company used in the past were very thin and applied by spraying. They were not obvious and you had to look for it closely. Maybe the Electra boards use coatings, but I can't tell.

Heat retention wasn't an issue for us, but coatings did add significant cost to our products. Not only was the epoxy expensive, it raised production costs. After the PCBs were built up, we had to test and debug them, then send them off for coating, then re-test when they came back. If a coated board came back bad, it could be repaired but it was a stinky mess. But I haven't looked at that stuff in years and maybe there are now cheap, cleaner alternatives to epoxy.

Labor costs are too high to repair consumer electronics. Just diagnosing a problem chip might cost more than a new board's cost. It's much more economic to just toss the old board and plug in a new one.


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## littlehuman (Jun 10, 2020)

hsvtoolfool said:


> *Instead, the control system is the Electra's weak link.* Dusty, humid, outdoor environments are really tough on electronics. Failures in the Electra are most likely to be in the exposed "control panel" board at the handle top and the several boards inside the body where the battery resides. The body is not sealed and dust and moisture do get inside. Once any of these board fails, then you basically have a paper weight (or a significant electronics design project).


I've seen posters in other forums say the same as to their Electra complaints.

Has Swardman addressed this anywhere? I'm interested in an Electra, but this is a bit of a turnoff being down in the humid south. They seemed to update the current mowers rather quickly with some nice-to-have improvements, so I'm curious if this is something they're aware of and have intention of upgrading to a sealed compartment around the exposed electronics.

@Reelrollers


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## DFWLawnNut (Jul 7, 2020)

You can buy conformal coating in a spray can and they make pen/markers that can remove it easily to work on an area. We do it at work all the time, but it really is something swardman should be doing at the factory. Especially because it's outdoors in the elements.


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

@littlehuman, I don't know that the boards _aren't_ conformal-coated. I just didn't see any obvious coatings when I looked at the boards. You definitely do NOT want to blast the Electra with a garden hose or pressure washer. You can carefully rinse the blades and drum without getting water on the top.

My Electra was first-gen. I don't know if the 2021 model will address any of these issues.


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## BigBoxLawn (Jul 8, 2020)

Am I wrong or is the battery inside the electra, and theres no way to have an extra to swap on hand? If you forget to charge, or something happens to the battery, your kinda SOL that day.


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## littlehuman (Jun 10, 2020)

hsvtoolfool said:


> @littlehuman, I don't know that the boards _aren't_ conformal-coated. I just didn't see any obvious coatings when I looked at the boards. You definitely do NOT want to blast the Electra with a garden hose or pressure washer. You can carefully rinse the blades and drum without getting water on the top.
> 
> My Electra was first-gen. I don't know if the 2021 model will address any of these issues.


Honestly, I think I'm more concerned about the battery/electronics compartment above the reel itself. I certainly wouldn't be leaving it out in the elements, but a shed gets mighty hot and humid on a southern summer day.

Typing that made me want to ask - are their temperature limit restrictions on storage for a unit with a battery like that?



BigBoxLawn said:


> Am I wrong or is the battery inside the electra, and theres no way to have an extra to swap on hand? If you forget to charge, or something happens to the battery, your kinda SOL that day.


@BigBoxLawn Correct, the battery is not swappable. Though, a full charge will last roughly 15k sqft, so really your best bet would be to simply plug it back in after every use and no issues unless your lawn is over that size (in which case an Electra is likely not ideal for you).


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## hsvtoolfool (Jul 23, 2018)

BigBoxLawn said:


> Am I wrong or is the battery inside the electra, and theres no way to have an extra to swap on hand?


That is correct. And I agree it makes no sense to hard-wire a battery into a mower. I don't want an "Off" switch, I want to pull the battery and 100% guarantee it's safe to work on the blades. Or I can swap in a fresh battery to keep mowing.

But for small startup companies, I suspect a custom hard-wired LiPo4 battery is the cheapest and easiest approach.

To date, the 17" Allett is the only consumer reel mower to use a mass-produced, third-party, removable battery. I think Allett has adopted Greenworks 40V batteries. Personally, I would have preferred either the 56V Ego or the 40V Ryobi battery.

In case you're wondering, you can't just drop a big Lithium battery into a product design. There's a LOT of energy stored in those things and they can be dangerous. For safety reasons, all Lithium batteries are "smart" and have a communications bus that allows the charger and mower to monitor current, voltage, and internal temperature of every cell. Why so complex? Once Lithium batteries hit a certain temperature, something really bad called "Thermal Runaway" occurs. _This is also known as "A Big Ol' Chemical Fire You Can't Put Out"_. Such fires are very unlikely, but it's also vital to avoid over-draining or over-charging to maximize the battery's life span. So the status of every cell is constantly monitored while the battery is used.

It's not hard to reverse-engineer the "Smart Battery" protocol used by Ego, Ryobi, Greenworks, etc. It's probably not a difficult problem to solve since they likely use industry standard protocols (over either CAN or I2C bus).

A more difficult barrier for small startup companies is the dreaded legal, licensing, and warranty issues. Mega-corps like Ego, Ryobi, and Greenworks are VERY unlikely to warrant batteries used in a third-party product. In fact, they'll likely sue anyone that starts selling them with that intent. That is, unless you shell out big bucks and license their battery and brand name. But now you've just increased production costs and reduced your profits. Or maybe you just don't have enough startup money to license the battery in the first place.

Anyway, these are just my best guesses. Who knows?


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