# Fall Overseeding



## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

I'll be posting my fall overseeding plans, and I will be happy to read any feedback or experience regarding this topic.


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## BrettWayne (Jun 19, 2017)

Awesome ! I Plan on areating and over seeding this fall too .. Be glad to see your plans and what other ideas people have .


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

@BrettWayne Great!
Let's compare.

Ok, my plan is to put down a weed killer (Dikamba spray) and a weed and feed with (NPK 14:2:4, FeSO4 and MCPA, Mecoprop-P). I have a few weeds and I want to get them while their leaves are big enough to hit and before they produce seeds. I'll do a spot treatment.
I wil do this part some 6 weeks prior to actual overseeding.

The basic plan is to wait for a dry day after 15.08. and:
1. Mow low (25 - 30 mm)
2. scarify
3.* drop seeds
4.** scatter soil mixed with sand
5. rake and level
6. roll
7.*** put down starter fertilizer
8. put down organic fertilizer
9. water as needed.

* not sure at what rate. I'll be applying 100% ryegrass. The rates I find on the internet are from 20 - 100 grams per square meter.

** not sure if I should use pure sand or a mix of soil and sand, since I haven't yet put down any sand and don't want to create layers of different materials in the ground.

*** not sure if it is too soon

I am not sure if maybe I should shampoo or not.

I try to keep it simple. 

Any thoughts?


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

You can eliminate steps 4,5 and 8. Starter fertilizer should go down with the seed, rye germinates very quickly.


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## 01redcrew (Jun 16, 2017)

Please do not use a weed and feed it will not grow grass and milo never hurts the Lawn


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

@j4c11 I forgot to add that I will try to level some low spots, because last year I tilled the soil and didn't level it corectly. 

@01redcrew I just did. :-|
I figured that 6 weeks is enough time to wash the herbicides from the soil. I used weed and feed because I don't have a license for handling these herbicides in a pure form.

Any tips on shampooing?


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

ales_gantar said:


> Any tips on shampooing?


Lather, rinse, repeat :lol:


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Yesterday I spot sprayed with dikamba, and "powdered" the spots of clover with weed and feed.
We just had a modest summer storm, which gave my grass some 3 mm of water, which is good.

I am going on vacation, so my lawnsitter will mow, bag and dispose the clippings on monday and again on friday. I set the mower on 6 cm, which Around 2,36 inches.


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## 01redcrew (Jun 16, 2017)

Gotcha. I thought you meant right when you were over seeding


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

That would be silly.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

That would be silly.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Dying weed.


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## DJT (Jul 1, 2017)

Tenacity 
http://www.greencastonline.com/product/tenacity-herbicide/overview/turf

Key Features
Weeds controlled include crabgrass, ground ivy, yellow foxtail, yellow nutsedge and nimblewill. It also controls unwanted bentgrass.
Provides post-emergent control of tough-to-control weeds
Controls weeds at seeding reducing weed competition

Key Benefits
Prevents and controls crabgrass pre or post up to four tillers
Eliminates weeds at seeding so new grass can flourish.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Thanks. I just need to find a way to get it, because we need a license for most of herbicides here. Grr!!



DJT said:


> Tenacity
> http://www.greencastonline.com/product/tenacity-herbicide/overview/turf
> 
> Key Features
> ...


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## DJT (Jul 1, 2017)

ales_gantar said:


> Thanks. I just need to find a way to get it, because we need a license for most of herbicides here. Grr!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not anymore.......
Amazon and http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/tenacity-herbicide-p-1877.html 
have it. I really believe in this herbicide and have used for several years.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

^he lives in slovenia. Thats in eastern Europe.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Ha.
I found it under a different name.
Turns out we have Syngenta products here, I just need to check if I need a license to buy it. 



DJT said:


> ales_gantar said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks. I just need to find a way to get it, because we need a license for most of herbicides here. Grr!!
> ...


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm not sure what the weed is. Tenacity is a good product but it might be an overkill for it. Have you tried other products? Do you know what you could get without a license? In the usa we could buy Weed b Gon.

https://www.ortho.com/smg/goprod/ortho-weed-b-gon-plus-crabgrass-control-concentrate/prod70162

The active ingredients are: 2.13% Quinclorac, 6.42% 2, 4-D, 0.60% Dicamba The 2, 4-D is a very old herbicide, effective and the main one to look for. Places that sell for farmers or livestock might have it.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Just noticed that the broadleaf in the picture is dying.
I have weed and feed with these ingredients. Asef and Substral, which are basicaly Scotts, but the European toned down version.
I have Dikamba, but I can only buy it in 100 ml packages, which is enough.
I only have to tackle crabgrass and poa annua. For the first I found a 200 ml package, but am not sure if I need a license. I am still looking for something against poa annua. Tried to buy glifosate to brush it on the grass, but they stopped selling it, because they say it's too toxic. Wankers.



g-man said:


> I'm not sure what the weed is. Tenacity is a good product but it might be an overkill for it. Have you tried other products? Do you know what you could get without a license? In the usa we could buy Weed b Gon.
> 
> https://www.ortho.com/smg/goprod/ortho-weed-b-gon-plus-crabgrass-control-concentrate/prod70162
> 
> The active ingredients are: 2.13% Quinclorac, 6.42% 2, 4-D, 0.60% Dicamba The 2, 4-D is a very old herbicide, effective and the main one to look for. Places that sell for farmers or livestock might have it.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

I changed my mind about the seeds.
I was going to buy 100% ryegrass, which is suposse to be coated, but it doesn't look like it is coated, but now I'll buy coated seed 20% *** 80% PRG.
I wanted to buy Scotts coated perennial ryegrass at about 25€/3,5 kg + 1.000.000,00€ for shipping costs, but then I found we have a company that produces the 20/80 coated seed, which is close enough. And it costs 24€ for a 5 pound bag, which is within reasonable limits. In my oppinion.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

My two cents:

I prefer uncoated seed than coated. Why? 1)The coating adds weight, so you will get a lot more seed from a kg of uncoated and coated. A lot more seed means more seed for you money. 2) To me the coating is a marketing scheme. If you do proper watering and top dress, you will get good results. The coating only helps if you forget to keep the soil moist. You could also apply it your self (Soil Moist Seed Coat).

In an overseed, kbg wont survive, so it will be a waste of money.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Coating usually contains some fungicide as well which can help with establishment. But I'm much rather buy non-coated seed and apply a fungicide separately.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Good points.
I am paranoic about seed to soil contact, so I decided to ise it, plus I am not yet enough experiencet to know when to drop starter fertilizer.

After problems with the spring seeding I am trying to play safe.



g-man said:


> My two cents:
> 
> I prefer uncoated seed than coated. Why? 1)The coating adds weight, so you will get a lot more seed from a kg of uncoated and coated. A lot more seed means more seed for you money. 2) To me the coating is a marketing scheme. If you do proper watering and top dress, you will get good results. The coating only helps if you forget to keep the soil moist. You could also apply it your self (Soil Moist Seed Coat).
> 
> In an overseed, kbg wont survive, so it will be a waste of money.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Yes, but I can't buy efective fungicides, because usage of chemicals here are highly regulated.



j4c11 said:


> Coating usually contains some fungicide as well which can help with establishment. But I'm much rather buy non-coated seed and apply a fungicide separately.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Ha!
This one is from a local company.
I never looked at the label, because it says it is intended to be used for reparing damaged spots during the growing season, and I just assumed it was an annual sort of something green. Costs 21,99€/2,5kg 55% seed


This one is imported, and I looked it because the text on the front sode was simmilar to the text on the first one.
Costs 10,09€/1kg 50% seed


I don't know much about varieties, butI googled them, and found two from the second box are turf type.

Would it be too daring if I mixed them together? Or is that a no no.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Bought 5kg of coated 100% ryegrass and now I'm waiting for temperatures to drop a bit, so I can start mowing a bit shorter, to prepare the grass for the shock of dethaching and overseeding.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

J'adore The Fall Nitrogen Blitz topic, but am not sure how it applies to overseeded lawns.

I will ask on the opened topic, but if anyone has an anwser, I'll be happy. =)


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

I seeded 16 sqm on monday and overseeded 34 sqm on tuesday, so day 0 was 07/08. 08. 2017

I leveled the newly seeded part with a mixture of soil and sand in 7/3 ratio. Right now I wish I would have mixed the sand in higher ratio, as it seems to have dissapeared during the mixing process. I rolled it, and leveled it, and sprayed baby shampoo on it and watered it again. For 2 days.
Then I leveled some more.
The I raked the top 20 mm, so it would dry and broadcasted coated seed with starter fertilizer, and came to 37 grams of seed per square meter. I guess it's around 7 pounds per 1k sqf. Not sure. And I raked it in. Then I rolled the soil and watered, but not too much. After 2 hours I spread (spreaded?? (LOL sorry)) 5 mm of peat moss over it and watered again.

On the overseeded part I mowed short. Too short for my nerves. In two passings I collected 2 x 70 liters of grass clippings and other stuff. On 34 square meters. Then I used a petrol dethatcher and went over it in 2 directions and collected some 50 liters of dead grass. I used the mower to pick up the dead grass and stuff, and collected some 30 liters of it.

Then I broadcasted the coated seeds. It is ryegrass, and it germinates up (down??) to 30 mm deep. Then I put over it some soil, and used a lawn leveling rake to level it a bit. I broadcasted some seeds over the soil again. Coated. Then I used a broom to smoothen things a bit and rolled it. Then I put peat moss over it and some lime, even over the parts I seaded on monday.

And I watered.

I only did 1/3 of the flat part of the yard, because I didn't have time for more.

Looking forward to your comments.

(Trouble with uploading pictures)


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

The 16 sqm newly seeded part.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

The first round of soil for leveling on the 34 sqm


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Before second round of seed.
Looks like Priština.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Watering.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

U! I forgot!
I fertilized with a SI version of Milorganite.

The pictures are from today.
Nothing germinated tet, but the surviving grass seems to not be dying, which is good.

I wxpect first baby grass to be seen over the weekend.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Baby grass in the morning od day 4. A day sooner then I expected.
Some fungus nearby.


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## ThatCrazyYardGuy (Apr 13, 2017)

Has anybody here ever used a power overseeder? I'm wondering if I should use one instead of using a broadcast spreader or throwing down by hand.


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## Roosterchest (Aug 3, 2017)

ThatCrazyYardGuy said:


> Has anybody here ever used a power overseeder? I'm wondering if I should use one instead of using a broadcast spreader or throwing down by hand.


I have not but was considering it; I think pennstater was considering also. After listening to others, I've decided against it. I am planning on renting a dethatcher to rough up the ground and then cover the seed.


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

ales_gantar said:


> U! I forgot!
> I fertilized with a SI version of Milorganite.
> 
> The pictures are from today.
> ...


Lots of hard work here, Ales. Nice job. I'm experiencing your overseed vicariously.

Please kindly ask that smelly fungus to get out of your yard.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

I would use one if I had a large lawn, but mine is only 160 sqm (1,7 k sqf), so I decided to use a power rake to dethatch, loosen the soil, and seed with a drop spreader.

If I had more then 1.000 sqm or 10 ksqf I'd probably try and find a slit seader



Roosterchest said:


> ThatCrazyYardGuy said:
> 
> 
> > Has anybody here ever used a power overseeder? I'm wondering if I should use one instead of using a broadcast spreader or throwing down by hand.
> ...


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Glad to read. 
It looks harder then it is.
I think it disrupts the status quo we have with the gras, and are afraid to do it. Just ask my wife. She said I ruined the lawn.



social port said:


> ales_gantar said:
> 
> 
> > U! I forgot!
> ...


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

I watered, overseeden another small part, and sprayed with fungicide.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Baby grass on overseeded part od day 4. A day sooner then I expected.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

I have some germination, but not enough, since this is day 6.
I suspect I burried the seeds too deep, in the soil. The parts covered with peat moss are doing ok, but at this point I am planning on overseeding again with more peat moss.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

The seeds are sprouting, but not as thick as I expected.
But the grass that survived dethatching is picking it's pace again.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Manually dethatched part of spring seeded lawn that has fungus issues, and I scrapet some 50 liters of dead grass from 8 square meters. The grass was around 5 cm long.
After the fungus stops appearing I'll overseed it.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

The nwly seeded and the overseeded part are coming in nicely. I ma noticing thick blades and thinn blades in the overseeded part, and only thinn blades in the new seeding.

I overseeded bare spots on both areas with PRG and covered it with peat moss.

I have fungus jumping from the spring seeding on to august seeding. It sucks, because it wass supose to get cooler, but it didn't, so I have fungus.

I sprayed baking soda, copper, and fungicide, and it seems to be working on the spring seeding, but not on august seeding.

My strategy is to keep overseeding the fungus infected areas until the fungus goes away, as it does every year.

I will win eventually.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Mowed the new grass at 5 cm.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

It is growing in nicely.
Maybe tomorrow I'll remember to take some photos.


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## j4c11 (Apr 30, 2017)

Looking good. Why did you go with Lolium instead of Poa Pratensis and/or Festuca Arudinancea?


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## BXMurphy (Aug 5, 2017)

Many people report good results with peat moss as a top dressing.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

I wanted to use poa pratensis, but was afraid of handling it, as it takes so much time to start growing, plus I was afraid of alelopathy between perennial ryegrass and poa pratensis.

I did a test with 50/50 % perennial ryegrass / poa pratensis and it seem that germination of poa isnt effected that much by ryegrass, so maybe next year I'll use the 50/50 mix to oberseed.



j4c11 said:


> Looking good. Why did you go with Lolium instead of Poa Pratensis and/or Festuca Arudinancea?


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

I have had good results wit it, but I noticed it is hatd to get it wet when applied too thick.



BXMurphy said:


> Many people report good results with peat moss as a top dressing.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

A bad picture, but you can see that it is thickening.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

A part I did on moday is showing signs of life.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

ales_gantar said:


> I wanted to buy Scotts coated perennial ryegrass at about 25€/3,5 kg + 1.000.000,00€ for shipping costs, but then I found we have a company that produces the 20/80 coated seed, which is close enough.


I've shipped stuff to Europe before, but that's some crazy inflation for shipping to Slovenia! /s


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

It is 29,99$ for seed,
37,99$ for shipping
And 9,22€ for import charges
For a 7 pound bag. A bit unreasonable. 



Colonel K0rn said:


> ales_gantar said:
> 
> 
> > I wanted to buy Scotts coated perennial ryegrass at about 25€/3,5 kg + 1.000.000,00€ for shipping costs, but then I found we have a company that produces the 20/80 coated seed, which is close enough.
> ...


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

The fall seeding & overseeding is coming in nicely.
The top right part is a new seeding from august 7 ~ 14 sqm
Top left overseeded on august 8 ~ 34 sqm.
Slope on the right was seeded on march 31 ~ 25 sqm.
The middle on the left (under the swing and trampoline) is a part I still have to do.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

The top right came in nicely, but now I have fungus. It looks terrible when you look at it closely. I will spray fungicides, and throw down some fertilizer. I did that on a part of the slope (right side of the picture) and it worked.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Overseeding (vieved from august 7 seeded part) on the right of the trampoline is growing nisely, but still has about 10 small parts that didn't germinate.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

The slope.
Fungus stopped spreading, some of the bottom filled itself in, the other spots I'll overseed/reseed after temperatures drop again.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

New grass in ftont, overseeded in the back and the slope on the right. It does look better then it did two years ago, but not nearly as good as I want it to.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Ok, I just learned I shouldn't have mowed after watering.
I watered yesterday morning and mowed at around 2 pm.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Ok, it works.
I could have waited until start of september, but august seems to be good enough.
I'll overseed the rest in a week or two, but I suppose it's boring enough to skip posting about it.


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## Richard Slater (Aug 25, 2017)

If you looking for custom mixes of seeds I would get in contact with DLF they are one of the larger European seed houses, after I got past their receptionist they were quite happy to talk to me and ship three cultivars of Poa Pratentis (a.k.a. Kentucky Bluegrass, or, Smooth-stalked Meadow Grass) to my home address in the UK.

Another option would be to speak to Barenbrug who seem to ship to Slovenia from The Netherlands which would at the very least mean that the currency exchange fees and import duty are negated.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

Thanks, I will ask them. Now I just have to figure out how to overseed perennial ryegrass with poa pratensis without using plant growth regulators.



Richard Slater said:


> If you looking for custom mixes of seeds I would get in contact with DLF they are one of the larger European seed houses, after I got past their receptionist they were quite happy to talk to me and ship three cultivars of Poa Pratentis (a.k.a. Kentucky Bluegrass, or, Smooth-stalked Meadow Grass) to my home address in the UK.
> 
> Another option would be to speak to Barenbrug who seem to ship to Slovenia from The Netherlands which would at the very least mean that the currency exchange fees and import duty are negated.


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## ales_gantar (Apr 13, 2017)

I scarified and overseeded.
Funny; I don't know if the grass that is growing on the treated spots is new grass, or it is just old grass being efected with fertilizers, and at this point I don't care.

I noticed that I got the best results when the seed was covered gently with screened peat moss. Non screened peat moss takes ages to get wet, and is sometimes hard to penetrate (??) by the new grass.


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