# I Concede My Battle Against Poa Triv



## jpzsports (Jun 1, 2021)

Bittersweet day for me in the lawn. My front yard looks better than ever and is thriving. But I think my 1 year battle with poa triv in the back and side yards is a losing battle that I need to concede...

After spending literally hundreds of hours spraying, digging out, and reseeding all the poa triv patches I could find over the past year and recently pulling out 1000sq ft, I found another 10+ patches today that seem to be thriving after the cooler temps have hit and all the recent rain. I just can't keep up any more. I've come to the realization that triv loves the shady, wet areas and I need to stop fighting mother nature. Honestly, in the summer it was pretty dark green and hard to tell unless I get down right on top of it. It seems to be a brighter green in the early spring and late fall, but hopefully with iron, etc. I can make it look as good as possible. At least it's in the bluegrass family, fills in patches better than anything else, and seems to love my shaded areas of my yard. I suppose I'll just do my best to prevent it from getting to my best section of my front lawn that is in the sun.

Anyone have any similar experiences and perhaps comforting feedback that triv can blend in decently if taken care of?
Here are some photos of the efforts made over the past year along with some photos of big triv patches I found today and a photo of the good part of my lawn 😊


My front lawn


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## Schreibdave (Aug 15, 2020)

I feel your pain. That's all I can say.


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## MacLawn (Oct 26, 2021)

When you dont want something there it thrives!!
I had 12 yards of fill brought in 5 yesrs ago to fill a sink hole as a result from buried stumps. Been fighting all sorts of grasses since. Dalasgrass,barnyard grass and a host of other un wanted !!
I nuke it, pull it, try to prevent it
Thought I got most of it 2020 , nope.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Going nuclear in the late spring is your only hope ( full renovation). With a long kill with watering and keep applying gly. Sadly the odds are against you being in NH and shady property for a full knockout. But you might be able to get a few years before it takes over again.


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## robjak (Mar 31, 2020)

I know how you feel. 2017-2019 I went through the same. I also lost. Wife thought i was crazy. So now, I also try to keep it from moving to my front.


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## robjak (Mar 31, 2020)

Going nuclear in the late spring is your only hope ( full renovation). With a long kill with watering and keep applying gly.

I did this, gly in may, fallowed all summer, still lost the triv game.


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

Triv is not that hard to get rid of using glyphosate, despite what you read on here. Most are doing it the wrong way. It is typical of people that don't read bag labels, argue advice given to them, and don't follow the lawn care guidelines on here.

May is too late for most of the United States. You need to start gly on the triv before your fescue/kbg comes out of winter dormancy. Your triv will be green and growing taller than the semi-dormant turfgrass when the timing is perfect. This will be sometime in March or early April. You need to spray 3x spaced out every few weeks. Use marker dye, whether you like it or not. Do not reseed until fall. The spots needs to stay bare dirt all summer and up to your seeding date. You do not need to dig anything out.


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

robjak said:


> Going nuclear in the late spring is your only hope ( full renovation). With a long kill with watering and keep applying gly.
> 
> I did this, gly in may, fallowed all summer, still lost the triv game.


That is not good advice. You need to start in early spring at the absolute latest. In some states, you need to start well before the first day of spring.


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## thin_concrete (Sep 11, 2020)

I feel your pain. I'm having the same issue in my back yard, and while I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet, I'm becoming more aware this is a fight I'm not going to win. I'm hoping to keep overseeding with the hope of choking it out eventually, but I know that has long odds too!


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## FailedLawn (5 mo ago)

1 year isn't really a battle and is too early to throw in the towel. It can take years to get control to a level of success.

As mentioned, killing it and waiting is going to be the best approach. It may be ugly for the summer season, but it's for the long term success.

You can consider putting donor sod in the dead areas.

Good luck. I have several spots of triv that I killed this fall, along with bent grass. Some get dormant seeded this winter, but for me it's really a 1-2 year process of making sure dead and manageable in the future.


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## robjak (Mar 31, 2020)

@learningeveryday,

Grass in the north does not start growing until Mid april. May is a perfect time to kill off triv.

In March, I still have snow.


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## Old Hickory (Aug 19, 2019)

Congrats on your decision. Embrace what Mother Nature gives you. Make lemonade. I love it.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

learningeveryday said:


> robjak said:
> 
> 
> > Going nuclear in the late spring is your only hope ( full renovation). With a long kill with watering and keep applying gly.
> ...


The guy is in New Hampshire I think late spring is the better option. In March he's still shoveling snow. Big difference in weather between Maryland and New Hampshire


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

My point exactly. You didn't understand my post while reading it.

"Grass in the north does not start growing until mid April."

"The guy is in New Hampshire I think late spring is the better option."

In both those cases, you definitely should not be waiting until late May to gly triv. You should be doing your first app just as your desirable turfgrass is starting to green up (which is many weeks before it is fully awake, growing, and ready for a full mow).

The last day of spring was June 21st. Why in the world would you recommend someone to wait until late spring, which would be around memorial day? That is just bad advice for most areas of the country, including NH.


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

jpzsports said:


> Bittersweet day for me in the lawn. My front yard looks better than ever


This picture is a clear indication that they started too late. The trees are fully leafed-out and already deep green. Those spots should be dirt by that time. I can still see green in some of the sprayed spots.


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

In this thread linked below, the OP had triv identified and growing on April 2nd 2022. The timing that I described in the previous posts is spot on. I don't know when they started the gly, but April 2nd would have been great timing for the first round, according to the pics the OP posted in the thread linked below. I don't know what it looked like before April 2nd, but there is a chance the triv was visible weeks before that date.

Bad advice can waste a lot of people's time and energy.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=34037


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## jpzsports (Jun 1, 2021)

Thank you all for the feedback and thoughts. I went outside again today to survey things and it's crazy...there are hundreds of triv patches popping up everywhere. One heavy rain storm and a couple weeks of cooler temps and it is coming out everywhere. Literally all the efforts I made over the past year were worthless. I have about 15,000 sq ft of lawn so doing a full reno would be incredibly painful and expensive. I just have to live with the triv at this point. Hopefully it can blend it and at least my striping kit can make the lawn look somewhat nice.


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

You could split it up into small, easily manageable sections and reno one section a year for the next 3-5 years. We're in it for the long haul anyway. Others that have gone that route all stated that it virtually removed any anxiety and stress related with what should be a relaxing hobby.


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## NJ-lawn (Jun 25, 2018)

Like they say it's a marathon……but you can speed it up by physically removing everything going deep with sod cutter. And put down a good quality sod. You may still get some triv back but it will be more manageable.

You have so much triv, I doubt you could kill enough to keep it from spreading or just embrace it like someone said. At least it's in your back yard. Good luck either way


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

learningeveryday said:


> In this thread linked below, the OP had triv identified and growing on April 2nd 2022. The timing that I described in the previous posts is spot on. I don't know when they started the gly, but April 2nd would have been great timing for the first round, according to the pics the OP posted in the thread linked below. I don't know what it looked like before April 2nd, but there is a chance the triv was visible weeks before that date.
> 
> Bad advice can waste a lot of people's time and energy.
> 
> https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=34037


First week of April triv was alive and well in NH is crazy. This is truly the devil's grass


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

I agree to hit it early, and also agree that it CAN be controlled with gly early season and prevent feedback.

In 2021 I killed off a huge 1000 sqft patch of Triv. None of it has come back that fall nor this spring. (I have seen a couple spots in new areas, likely from KBG seed having some Triv seeds in it).

What I did:
* Sprayed double strength gly, 2-3 weeks apart, as soon as I spotted it. This is mid March in NC. Using Iron and waiting for a strong rain, you can pick out where the Triv is. Iron help it stand out as lime green. Sprayed out about 6" past where I saw Triv.
* Did 3 apps of gly. Don't forget to scalp it after about 4 days before it lays down and mats.The third app was the day I put seed down.
* Sprayed Tenacity out 6" beyond what I gly'd. The cool thing here, is this makes it really easy to see if any Triv leaks through the edge. You will see baby white things. If you see them, spray another round of normal strength gly there and just toss more seed right on top (since you're getting close to end of spring at this point).
* Lost about 70% of the seeded grass through summer heat here. Spring seeding doesn't fare well, but at least I had something green there for most of the summer. Thinned out in Aug.
* Overseed as normal to thicken the area back up. Using Tenacity during overseed and Iron to see if you see any Triv spots.
* Keep an eye out again next spring.


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## Tungsten (6 mo ago)

Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences. I have a section of my front lawn with a good amount of triv that I have been living with and hating. Based on your experiences, this coming March/April I think I will apply a few rounds of glyphosate. Then spring seed these areas. If the new grass doesn’t do well over the summer, I can do a fall overseed as well (I’d rather not leave the areas bare all summer). Thanks everyone.


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## Dude (Sep 4, 2019)

learningeveryday said:


> You could split it up into small, easily manageable sections and reno one section a year for the next 3-5 years. We're in it for the long haul anyway. Others that have gone that route all stated that it virtually removed any anxiety and stress related with what should be a relaxing hobby.



Agreed with this part - it’s the route I’m taking for my backyard. It was/is riddled with it. I’m using it as an opportunity to run test plots for an eventual full lawn renovation. Even though pics like the below drive me absolutely insane, breaking it up seems to make the process more enjoyable:










If you want to hide it and live with it, there’s nothing wrong there either, it can look decent for most of the year (7/9/22):










Even with a full Reno, it will likely be a multi year approach…just have to adjust expectations and find a way to enjoy the hobby.


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## jpzsports (Jun 1, 2021)

Thank you all for the helpful feedback!

Has anyone tried using PGR spot sprayed on poa triv patches? Not necessarily to eradicate it but to control it's downsides. The two biggest issues with triv is that it has a limer green color and grows slightly taller and faster than the surrounding grass. PGR is known for helping keep grass darker and also helps it grow less. So would it potentially help the triv to blend in better? I know some people tried using Aneuw to kill triv with little success but rather than kill it, what about trying to tame it with T-Nex PGR or something?


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

jpzsports said:


> Thank you all for the helpful feedback!
> 
> Has anyone tried using PGR spot sprayed on poa triv patches? Not necessarily to eradicate it but to control it's downsides. The two biggest issues with triv is that it has a limer green color and grows slightly taller and faster than the surrounding grass. PGR is known for helping keep grass darker and also helps it grow less. So would it potentially help the triv to blend in better? I know some people tried using Aneuw to kill triv with little success but rather than kill it, what about trying to tame it with T-Nex PGR or something?


from my experience, pgr will not change the color of triv much, if at all. What it will do is knock the growth back and keep it from getting out of control. The big thing is that once the PGR wears off, the triv will explode. You’ll need to stay on top of the apps.
At this point, the headache of triv every year and the work that it entails to get rid of it, I would pay a hefty price tag for POA Cure if it was available. The time, labor and money to fix the triv issue is getting old and not fun.
My backyard was pristine this summer, survived the heat and was spotless. Once the cooler temps hit, blotches of triv have now popped up. Triv will bring you to your knees quick if it bothers you that much.


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## jpzsports (Jun 1, 2021)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> from my experience, pgr will not change the color of triv much, if at all. What it will do is knock the growth back and keep it from getting out of control. The big thing is that once the PGR wears off, the triv will explode. You’ll need to stay on top of the apps.
> At this point, the headache of triv every year and the work that it entails to get rid of it, I would pay a hefty price tag for POA Cure if it was available. The time, labor and money to fix the triv issue is getting old and not fun.
> My backyard was pristine this summer, survived the heat and was spotless. Once the cooler temps hit, blotches of triv have now popped up. Triv will bring you to your knees quick if it bothers you that much.


Thanks for the feedback. I suppose I'll just let it be for now and consider trying PGR in the spring when the patches of triv stand out the most. How often do you need to apply PGR?

I agree with you 100%. It is such a headache...I spent almost every weekend over the past 6 months out in my yard trying to find triv, remove it, reseed it, etc. I didn't want to do a full reno and thought I could handle it. I truly thought that I got rid of most of it and about a month ago, it was looking spotless like you said. But then once we got rain and cooler temps, I've found tons of it popping up. Not sure if it was just hiding during the summer because it actually looks darker in the summer or if these are new patches but I feel like all my efforts were futile and I can't fathom doing all of it again, especially if the outcome will likely be the same. 

At this point, I'm just going to let it be, keep the lawn overall looking good and healthy, and try to shift my mindset to thinking of triv as a grass that grows well in my area. Heck, it spreads amazingly, likes wet, shaded areas better than anything else, and actually looks decent in the summer. It only stands out in the early spring and late fall. If POA Cure becomes available, I would definitely get it too. But for now, I'm just going to have to make it work.

Most people probably wouldn't be able to tell unless they got up close to it. If I mow frequently and strip nicely, the lawn should still look good. If there are any tips regarding helping making triv blend into the lawn better, I'm all ears!


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

You're making an already time consuming deal much harder. You do not need PGR.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Many people on these boards recommend spring gly applications to control pot triv. Is there any scientific evidence to support this claim? 

I’m aware of a single study from aprox 10 years ago linked below. If you look closely at the study, it seems far from conclusive that spring application is the answer. 

Look at the figure 2 charts. Only the 2012 Manhattan KS study appears to support the spring gly recommendation. In 2011, at the same site, year 2 triv cover was the same irrespective of gly timing (spring, mid summer or late). In the Mead 2012 study while spring applied triv had the lowest year 2 cover, it was still around 40%. Does anyone here consider 40% triv cover effective control?

The results of this study are all over the board and to my knowledge, were never replicated. I’m open to new evidence. Does anyone have any?

I’ve been fighting triv for about 10 years in my yard. I’ve gly’d it at various points in the season and tried about every selective out there. None of the chemicals resulted in satisfactory control by year 2. I have had success by relentlessly scouting for triv and hand pulling it. I don’t dig-out the soil. Not saying that works or doesn’t, I just don’t do it.

I would never recommend a spring gly application b/c it isn't reliable. That's based on my personal experience and the scientific evidence linked below. If you gly, do it in the late summer/ early fall and expect some triv to come back in year 2 but not at the same coverage rate.









Controlling Poa trivialis with glyphosate


Rough bluegrass (Poa trivialis L.) is a cool-season perennial turfgrass commonly encountered in temperate climates because of years of intentional and unintentional propagation.




www.golfdom.com


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## Powhatan (Dec 15, 2017)

tgreen said:


> ... I have had success by relentlessly scouting for triv and hand pulling it. ...


Past couple of years this is what I've found "controls" triv the best for me. I know that I'll never completely eradicate it from my lawn. No matter when I see it now, I pull out as much as I can. Years ago I did the spring multiple glyphosate sprays, while most patches were killed, there were a few even after three sprays still had live roots. What caused the triv to explode over my lawn years ago was when I mechanical aerated and not realizing I was spreading it, I don't aerate anymore.


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## jpzsports (Jun 1, 2021)

Has anyone tried the combo of Tenacity, Triclopyr, and Sulfentrazone on Triv like in this video?


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

The groundhog day of all topics.

Where is the beating your head on the wall emoji when you need it?

If you can't kill triv with gly, you're not doing it the proper way. It is not rocket science. The people having a problem are not spacing the apps far enough apart, starting too late in the year, not using a strong enough dosage, and reseeding too quickly. There are very few that do it the right way, which includes waiting until fall to reseed.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

learningeveryday said:


> Where is the beating your head on the wall emoji when you need it?


Right next to the rolling my eyes emoji.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

jpzsports said:


> Has anyone tried the combo of Tenacity, Triclopyr, and Sulfentrazone on Triv like in this video?


I haven't watched the video but sulfentrazone is labeled for warm season grass. There are at least a couple members on here with experience using certainty in a cool season lawn. Masshole used it and fried his lawn. Green used it with some success. Try searching old posts from these two members. If you are brave enough to try it, I would use it solo and not tank mix it. I can tell you from first hand experience Tenacity alone and/or mixed with tricolpyr will ding triv but the triv will regrow in the same season.

While I don't have first hand experience with sulfentrazone, I think you can count on the chemical taking care of the triv. The bigger problem is whether it takes out your cool season grass at the same time.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

tgreen said:


> I haven't watched the video but sulfentrazone is labeled for warm season grass. There are at least a couple members on here with experience using certainty in a cool season lawn. Masshole used it and fried his lawn. Green used it with some success. Try searching old posts from these two members. If you are brave enough to try it, I would use it solo and not tank mix it. I can tell you from first hand experience Tenacity alone and/or mixed with tricolpyr will ding triv but the triv will regrow in the same season.
> 
> While I don't have first hand experience with sulfentrazone, I think you can count on the chemical taking care of the triv. The bigger problem is whether it takes out your cool season grass at the same time.


I just watched the guy's video. First, my apologies b/c I mixed up sulfentrazone with sulfosulfuron. I don't have any first hand experience with either. I can say that tenacity and triclopyr are not effective on poa triv beyond dinging it for a few weeks. I've never heard of using sulfentrazone on poa triv but if you do it, please let us know how it goes.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

So far, my late season gly of poa t (Oct/Nov) with plugging in spring was successful. I keep watching the area to see if anything shows up, but nothing so far. The plugs survive the summer without a problem plus the KBG spreads. I cant tell that area was dead at the start of the season.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

g-man said:


> So far, my late season gly of poa t (Oct/Nov) with plugging in spring was successful. I keep watching the area to see if anything shows up, but nothing so far. The plugs survive the summer without a problem plus the KBG spreads. I cant tell that area was dead at the start of the season.


That's good. Sounds like it's almost a year. I bet as long as it's growing well, it can be killed pretty well, regardless of season.


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## FailedLawn (5 mo ago)

Just curious.
How long have you had the triv? Any idea how it got there?


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## jpzsports (Jun 1, 2021)

learningeveryday said:


> The groundhog day of all topics.
> 
> Where is the beating your head on the wall emoji when you need it?
> 
> If you can't kill triv with gly, you're not doing it the proper way. It is not rocket science. The people having a problem are not spacing the apps far enough apart, starting too late in the year, not using a strong enough dosage, and reseeding too quickly. There are very few that do it the right way, which includes waiting until fall to reseed.


If only it was that "easy." I sprayed all the patches of triv that I could find in the spring, 3 rounds of gly over the course of a month, dug out all the patches, and reseeded and it still came back. I gave it a valiant effort. It seems that the triv is either much more infiltrated throughout my lawn or new patches have somehow grown in. I've seen many others report similar battles as mine, even going as far as a full reno, and triv still came roaring back within a year or two. I'm still confused as to how it comes back so strong, but maybe it varies depending upon the shade/wetness conditions, location, soil, etc. For all I know, the bags of soil I bought have triv seeds dormant in them. It's extremely frustrating and I feel like it isn't worth putting in more effort unless PoaCure or some selective herbicide becomes available. 



tgreen said:


> I just watched the guy's video. First, my apologies b/c I mixed up sulfentrazone with sulfosulfuron. I don't have any first hand experience with either. I can say that tenacity and triclopyr are not effective on poa triv beyond dinging it for a few weeks. I've never heard of using sulfentrazone on poa triv but if you do it, please let us know how it goes.


Thanks for the input. I might give it a try on a few patches in the backyard as a test. I have some T-Zone and Tenacity.



g-man said:


> So far, my late season gly of poa t (Oct/Nov) with plugging in spring was successful. I keep watching the area to see if anything shows up, but nothing so far. The plugs survive the summer without a problem plus the KBG spreads. I cant tell that area was dead at the start of the season.


I suppose I will see how much triv I have at the end of this month and decide if it's worth giving it one more effort to remove or just let it be. I'm tired of having various glyphosated dead patches or dug out patches throughout my yard. At this point, at least the triv is grass. 

As much as I'm probably going to despise the look of triv standing out in late fall and early spring, it isn't as noticeable unless you're very close to it and in the summer it blends in extremely well with the rest of my KBG. My biggest fear is just that the triv will keep spreading and take over large sections. But then again, the areas that it is growing are areas where it performs well: shaded and wet. 

I've seen many people on here put in a lot of effort trying to do renos and remove poa triv and then say it came back a year or two later. What do you think is the cause of it coming back?
It wasn't killed off completely?
There are triv seeds in the soil?
Wind, animals, clippings from mowing somehow transport triv back into a clean area?

It seems too likely that triv will come back anyways to make it worthwhile to remove it all again. I don't know if I'm giving up too soon or what. Lawn perfection is a goal we all strive for but rarely reach.


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## 7824 (Oct 23, 2019)

Oh good lord.

The fact is, you didn't kill it and then reseeded on top of triv that wasn't dead. Then you wonder what happened, so you come here for advice. You're given the factual reason and a clear cut path to take next spring but you disregard all of it.


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

jpzsports said:


> I've seen many people on here put in a lot of effort trying to do renos and remove poa triv and then say it came back a year or two later. What do you think is the cause of it coming back?


Don't feel too bad. Check out this guy's videos. He nuked his lawn in spring, solarized the soil and a bunch of other stuff. He posted these 3 years ago and never came back to give the results. I can only assume the triv came back.

In terms of how it comes back, I'm convinced it's seed. Many people will tell you it is rare for triv to put on a seed head. Maybe the triv in my yard is special but it absolutely seeds. It's not nearly as prolific as annua but it's also not uncommon.


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## LeeB (Jul 1, 2019)

There's always going to be a small amount of triv contamination in grass seed no matter what the label says. Every time you seed you are probably introducing small amounts of triv. That may be how it keeps coming back for some people.


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## EdenMd (7 mo ago)

This problem is of interest to me as I identified Poa Triv for the first time on my 3 yr old tttf lawn this fall. I had a local turf company do total reno and irrigation of 23k sq ft in 2020 fall. My neighbor also had the same done, same day same company and we both have Poa Triv. I have suffered with fungus the past two years, Pythium I think because it killed to the root, so I've had to renno those areas, my neighbor not. I reseeded with Scotts Tall Fescue which is not the seed the turf company used. My neighbors Poa is not as much as mine. I speculate that perhaps core aeration or dethatching contributed to spread both of which I needed to do to renno the area affected by fungus. Here in Maryland we had 80+ temps until late Sept. I went to Kansas for a week during the time Tropical Storm Ian moved in to our area for a week and dumped about 2-1/2 in of rain. When I got back the day after the rain ended the seed I planted had germinated pretty well and I notice these small patches of bright green grass that is growing taller than the fescue. It took me days to conclude it was Poa Triv. I pulled what I saw by hand, filled the holes with Scotts Lawn Soil, seeded and covered with light layer of Leafgro. Since then I have been reading all I can about Poa Triv. So now I realize this may be a progressive losing battle. The seed I put in the holes left by Poa is coming in good and another week it should be blending in Ok. Overall things look nice now and Poa does not jump out at you but I know those stolons still exist and I will see this again most likely spring. My hope is I can pull what I see then or perhaps use a paint brush and apply glyphosate to keep it in check. My total lawn is 30k sq ft. with allot of turf with little or no Poa. I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet. I have seen some mention of using a growth suppressor Anuew to slow its growth. There was a youtube video by GCI turf. I hope I can manage like that guy just by hand pulling and seeding.


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## Jersey_diy (Sep 5, 2020)

Poa Triv control could take up to five years....I don't think that Glysophate is the way to go because you will keep creating a great environment for poa triv seeds to germinate every time you reseed. 

I am more in the mind of controlling with many small tenacity apps in the fall. And pgr in the spring so that the desireable turf isn't out competed thus leaving bare spots in the summer.


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