# mpoland33's Lawn



## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

So I'm new to lawns in general pretty much. I grew up in the city...our yard was a concrete pad. I live in the sticks now on 3 1/2 acres (about 2- 21/2 are grass/mowable). I'm still very much in the learning stages and am doing research on buying a tow behind sprayer so I'm wondering:

What is the best Pre-M in your opinion? Where do you get the WSG's?
While I'm at it- we have terrible onion grass and a lot of crabgrass. What is the best way to kick that to the curb?

LAstly, where do you find/how do you create a schedule throughout the year as to what to apply at that time?


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

mpoland33 said:


> So I'm new to lawns in general pretty much. I grew up in the city...our yard was a concrete pad. I live in the sticks now on 3 1/2 acres (about 2- 21/2 are grass/mowable). I'm still very much in the learning stages and am doing research on buying a tow behind sprayer so I'm wondering:
> 
> What is the best Pre-M in your opinion? Where do you get the WSG's?
> While I'm at it- we have terrible onion grass and a lot of crabgrass. What is the best way to kick that to the curb?
> ...


Welcome to TLF @mpoland33 :thumbup:

To answer some of your questions, I'll just quote a response that @social port gave to another new user. It should help you get some general direction as to how to take care of your lawn. Obviously since you've got a lot more lawn than the user SP was responding to, some users have gone to www.lawnandpestcontrolsupply.com and there's also www.domyown.com.



social port said:


> The most general advice for spring and summer include
> determine the square footage of your lawn https://www.findlotsize.com/
> Buy crabgrass preventer product at Lowes based on your square footage needs (this helps prevent weeds from growing and gives your fescue a nice dose of nitrogen)
> Mow between 3-4 inches (occasionally measure the cut grass to ensure proper cut height)
> ...


Taking into consideration the size of your lot, I would recommend Blindside which will help suppress the crabgrass, as well as control the wild onion. A spike of quinclorac would take out the crabgrass for sure, but the Blindside will take out a lot of other weeds you might not have identified yet. Cost per application is affordable as well.


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

Thanks so much! IS the Blindside what you would use for a PRE-M? or is that something different?


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## chrismar (May 25, 2017)

mpoland33 said:


> Thanks so much! IS the Blindside what you would use for a PRE-M? or is that something different?


@Ware , @dfw_pilot : can we break mpoland33's post and responses (so far) out into their own thread? I think they're getting lost in the mix of the pre-m chatter. I'd hate to see them get looked over and not get the treatment they deserve.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

Done. :thumbup:


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

mpoland33 said:


> While I'm at it- we have terrible onion grass and a lot of crabgrass. What is the best way to kick that to the curb?


There's most likely no Crabgrass germinating in MD yet...it's too early and not quite warm enough. You probably won't start seeing it for a few more weeks. Go to this site, and type in your zipcode: http://www.gddtracker.net/?model=10&offset=0&zip= CG will start coming up once you hit the green zone, possibly the yellow. Go to last year's data and find the 50 degree column, and look for the number 220. The date next to that is roughly when CG started coming up last year.


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

Great, thanks. IT does show the green but just now pretty much.

I should have said we had terrible onion grasd and a lot of crabgrass last year


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

You are right at the cusp of being too late to put down a PreM (pre emergent) to help you stave off the summer weeds that will be in your area. The extended winter has bought you some time if you haven't put some down yet. You should get some post-haste, and apply it to your yard pronto!

That being said, it wouldn't be a bad idea to go ahead and get the Blindside as well, since it will work to take out a lot of the weeds you might miss with the PreM. There's going to be some more help from the cool season dudes headed your way. @g-man help this fellow out.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I thought I did, but the post got split. PreM for 2.5 acres, prodiamine is the best/economical approach (https://www.domyown.com/prodiamine-65-wdg-generic-barricade-p-2495.html). Dimension is the next choice but more expensive.

Both will need a spray application. It could be done with granular/spreader, but the cost will be high.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

I just mentioned you @g-man because you tend to be the most visible cool season guy in the warm season forums 

One thing I can say @mpoland33 is that once you get your weeds under control, cutting grass becomes easy, and pleasurable. I still miss the house I used to live in before I moved down here. We had 5 acres, and a lot of grass/weeds. I dreaded mowing it with my 33" Murray rider. I spent a couple of summers clearing out rubbish piles, and using a DR Field & Brush Mower to take out some overgrown areas, but once I got the weeds under control, it was really nice to be able to cut JUST GRASS.

Wow, I thought to myself "I know I had some pictures of my old house, and sure enough, I do!


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

Thanks so much for the responses. Sorry for the delay. I wasnt getting notifications that there were responses


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

So since I didn't see the responses I went ahead and bought a PRE-M. Have you tried surfactant or have any opinions about it? My sprayer is due in tomorrow. I'm borderline too late to get it down so unless you have had bad experience with surfactant, I think I have to try it this time. I dont think I can get another one in


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

So my next question is how far apart do i do the following:

PRE-M
spray for onion (blindside- onion is up already)
Aerate and seed.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

mpoland33 said:


> So since I didn't see the responses I went ahead and bought a PRE-M. Have you tried surfactant or have any opinions about it? My sprayer is due in tomorrow. I'm borderline too late to get it down so unless you have had bad experience with surfactant, I think I have to try it this time. I dont think I can get another one in


You'll want to use a surfactant when you're applying contact herbicides, but it's not necessary for PreM. PreM goes into the soil, not onto the leaf tissue. The purpose of a surfactant is to break down the surface tension of water, so it spreads out over the leaf tissue, instead of beading up. There are a couple of MOA's (modes of action) of herbicides, and the different target pests (weeds) require different types of surfactants.

Matt Martin aka @thegrassfactor made an excellent explanation about the different types of surfactants and when they're best to be used.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Non ionic surfactant(nis) is use to improve the spray applications when the desire is for the grass blades to absorb it. PreM is intended to the applied to the soil, so do not use nis.

What preM did you get? Most have around 16 weeks from prem application to seed. The intent of the prem is to prevent roots from establishing; roots of weeds or roots of good grass.


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

Thats all I've gotten so far. Now I feel like I need to get something from Depot or Amazon prime to get here on time. But I don't know what to get that I can get quick


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

mpoland33 said:


> So my next question is how far apart do i do the following:
> 
> PRE-M
> spray for onion (blindside- onion is up already)
> Aerate and seed.


Your aeration and overseeding will be hampered by your PreM, since the point of that application is to prevent germination of weeds. If it were me, I'd hold off until fall to overseed, as you'll not have as much success as you would come Fall. You'd get about 30% survival rate, if that. You can do your PreM and spray for onion on the same day. Keep in mind, you'll want to irrigate with at least 1/2" of water when you apply the PreM within 14 days of application (that's how it is with Prodiamine).


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

To echo some of the points above, you shouldn't be planning to seed if you are applying a PreM (unless you have mesotrione/tenacity or tupersan). Even with many post-emergents, you shouldn't seed right after application (usually there is a 30-day wait with products at the big box stores)
Seeding is something that is better done in the fall (young grass going into summer months is at risk for dying off).


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## social port (Jun 19, 2017)

Colonel K0rn said:


> If it were me, I'd hold off until fall to overseed, as you'll not have as much success as you would come Fall.


Me too.


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

ok, thanks. That solves that. I just looked at the label and i ended up getting Surflan. It's labeled as a PRE M


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Hmm, I would not use Surflan in a cool season lawn. It is labeled for warm season and fescues. Unless you are 100% sure you only have fescue, this could be a risk.

Most of us use this: Prodiamine 65 WDG Generic Barricade 5 lb https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007H36O12/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_PgTYAbEMR6NNF 
It is $57 and will cover a long time.

Monty did the math for his yard it will cover 48 years at max annual rate. (https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1274)


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

Thanks for the help. My next question:

The tracker shows I just entered the "over" stage....by the time Prodiamine gets here it'll be "done". What should I do?


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## mpoland33 (Apr 1, 2018)

should I wait and use the blindside or trimec or something to do the post emergent crabgrass and onion at the same time?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The gdd tracker is just a tool based on a model. The weather has been off and ground temps are not enough for crabgrass. Apply the prem as soon as you can.


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