# Is this Zoysia half-dead or just cranky?



## NOVAZoysia (Jun 21, 2019)

Greetings! First post -- the pics below will introduce you to my very ordinary lawn (compared with the beautiful gems I see on here!). Anyway, in a nutshell, I'm just NOW, like in the last month, learning the most basic things -- that different grasses like different heights; the 1/3 rule, reel vs rotary, etc. Now I'm obsessed! Lol. But for the last 17 years with this Zoysia I never knew any of it. I just cut it, bag the clippings, cut it again, rinse, repeat. I was probably cutting it whenever I had time or it got too long. Who knew it wanted to be cut down around 2" or lower?? Now, I have been mowing to 2.5" although pics here were just after cut to 3". I mulch clippings back into the lawn with a 21-in rotary mower. No clumps, etc. -- you can barely see clippings, as I haven't made any drastic cuts.

I've been concerned that lawn hasn't fully greened up. (We did have a dry spring, and only now are the wet/humid thunderstorm months upon us.) See how the brown is interspersed? It's possible this is always how it has looked and now I am just cutting it shorter (I'd guess I used to let it go to maybe 4" ???) and therefore the brown is just more visible? First pic is of lawn around 8 PM. Northern Virginia. Second pic is choosing a random area and spreading it apart with my fingers. It's deceptive because if you "zoom out" the lawn isn't fully that brown-filled. Anyway, I can pull the blades back like this and see the soil, but see all the little brown guys? They're attached and resist when I tug on them, but they're not greening up like their neighbors. Is that normal? Are those blade dead? Just slow to green up? Is it thatch? I've been wondering if I should get down to 2" Bad idea? Good? I know it will look browner that way.

On the upside? Eh, doesn't look TOO bad from out on the street anyway. :lol:

Any thoughts on how to improve the situation? Cost IS an object, and I'm not sure if something like dethatching is in my skill set - at least yet. 

Sorry to be so wordy! Thanks to anyone who had the energy to read the whole thing!

P.S. Ignore for now that nice flattened line at the top, haha. That's been there for a couple of seasons now -- I must have mowed it wet when too high or some such. It WON'T go away!! This poor lawn deserved a better owner.

Front lawn:



spreading apart blades:


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

You can rent a power rake or other detaching tool at Home Depot for probably $50 or less. Never done it myself, but from what I can tell it isn't complicated, you just push it across the yard like a lawn mower. And yes, my totally NOT expert opinion is you may benefit from that.

Are you fertilizing? Also, again, I'm a newb like you, but I get someone is going to tell you you need to sharpen your mower blades from the torn look of them - unless that was cut while super stressed from the heat. Personally, sharpening blades isn't something I want to tackle yet so I plan to just buy a new blade, lol.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

Video from "This Old House" on how to dethatch. https://youtu.be/_4byQHwCMJc


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## ThomasPI (May 18, 2019)

Welcome, no pro here but: 1) Look at tips of blades, your mower is tearing the grass and not cutting it. 2) Generally speaking Zoysia is a thatch monster if not maintained at 1/2" HOC. Without going too far too fast get a new mower blade and dethatch, you've got years and years of thatch build up. Then perhaps look into top dressing to get a good level base.


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## Jmyler (Jun 14, 2019)

I'd highly recommend getting a soil sample so you can give it what it needs. I aerated, took a soil sample and fertilized according to the deficiencies this year and boy did it come to life. Picture speaks for itself. I really like soil savvy soil test. You can get it on amazon. They are quick and it's really easy to read and comes with a recommendation of fertilizer in both synthetic and organic. 
What type of zoysia do you have?


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## NOVAZoysia (Jun 21, 2019)

ktgrok said:


> You can rent a power rake or other detaching tool at Home Depot for probably $50 or less. Never done it myself, but from what I can tell it isn't complicated, you just push it across the yard like a lawn mower. And yes, my totally NOT expert opinion is you may benefit from that.


Thanks for answering! I'm a bit nervous to go the power rake route just yet -- I'd only do a wrong setting or get impatient or something. So I've bought this morning a dethatching rake for about $35 at Lowe's. Youtube university showed me how to use it. The plan is to spend a season in hell doing it by hand, or at least using it first, before any heavy gear, to see just how bad the problem is.



ktgrok said:


> Are you fertilizing? Also, again, I'm a newb like you, but I get someone is going to tell you you need to sharpen your mower blades from the torn look of them - unless that was cut while super stressed from the heat. Personally, sharpening blades isn't something I want to tackle yet so I plan to just buy a new blade, lol.


I think I did that Scott's year-round "buy this bag now and this bag later" program ONCE, maybe 15 years ago. Other than that I have never fertilized it, and only once, maybe 10 years ago, did I set a sprinkler to it. I'd heard "Zoysia is tough," so I have let it fend for itself all these years. To its credit -- it really HAS been tough to survive my neglect at all.

Oh and new mower blade purchased. I did notice the shredded leaves, though other leaves seem to have clean cuts. Weird. This mower shares time with my backyard, which is huge, not zoysia, and filled with spiky sweet gum balls (!!!!) that aren't even from trees in my yard.  The blade probably takes more of a beating than I realize.


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## NOVAZoysia (Jun 21, 2019)

Jmyler said:


> I'd highly recommend getting a soil sample so you can give it what it needs. I aerated, took a soil sample and fertilized according to the deficiencies this year and boy did it come to life. Picture speaks for itself. I really like soil savvy soil test. You can get it on amazon. They are quick and it's really easy to read and comes with a recommendation of fertilizer in both synthetic and organic.
> What type of zoysia do you have?


That lawn looks great! Good idea -- thank you. I didn't know Amazon had those.

No idea what type. I only learned recently that "zoysia" is not all one and the same.


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## NOVAZoysia (Jun 21, 2019)

ThomasPI said:


> Welcome, no pro here but: 1) Look at tips of blades, your mower is tearing the grass and not cutting it. 2) Generally speaking Zoysia is a thatch monster if not maintained at 1/2" HOC. Without going too far too fast get a new mower blade and dethatch, you've got years and years of thatch build up. Then perhaps look into top dressing to get a good level base.


New blade purchased.

Could 1/2" be done on a hill such as this one?

Now I have to go look up what top dressing is. :lol: An education, this is! But fun.


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

Need to sharpen blades .... probably 1 mo if I had to throw a number out there. Zennith zoysia I assume ....has a high tensile strength so its more of an impact to the blade. However, that's a separate thread.

Soil test ++

Assume you fertilized this year?

You can cut low on a hill. To improve overall health, You're probably due for a dethatch and aerator.


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## Owens_Geo (Jun 24, 2018)

Using a manual rake is a great way to get some cardio in and lose a few pounds!

I would slow down a little. Don't start throwing everything you read at it. I know it's exciting to try a bunch of different stuff, but patience, especially with zoysia is your friend.

Start detaching, remove the material first. 
Start cutting consistently. Ideally every four days if you can. Bring her down to 2inches

Get a soil test.

See how the grass reacts to the first two steps then you can start a fertilizer program that makes sense.

Keep us posted !!


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## ThomasPI (May 18, 2019)

Slow and easy. Dethatch and soil test. You won't be cutting down to 1/2" with a rotary mower but slow.


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## drewwitt (Jun 25, 2018)

My zoysia was similar.

Started cutting at 1 - 1.5" instead of 3"

Did a soil test and found my ph was high (7.8) and was limiting growth.

Bought the same dethatch rake from Lowe's and discovered I had a ton of dead grass clippings that were effectively being a barrier for water and fertilizer.

Got impatient doing it by hand and bought the sun joe machine on amazon after the Pest and Lawn Ginja reviewed it on the toobs.

It did great! Totally worth the $130 or whatever it was.

Yard looked yellow but greened up within two weeks. I'll try to find some pictures for you.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Possible heat stroke or heart attack dethatching a zoysia lawn by hand. Rent the machine or buy a electric greenworks for $80


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Better yet, get a mower capable of mowing the Zoysia down to 0.25" or dirt whichever comes first. Then maintain at 0.4-0.5".


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## NOVAZoysia (Jun 21, 2019)

drewwitt said:


> My zoysia was similar.
> 
> Started cutting at 1 - 1.5" instead of 3"
> 
> ...


Cool - your story gives me hope! That little Sun Joe does seem to get some good reviews. Good enough I'll be ordering one so I can have it for next weekend, if weather permits. It's $95 on Amazon right now so I'll consider myself lucky. That Lowes rake at least has shown me the problem up close and personal -- can't believe how much dead stuff comes up! Er, 17 years of dead stuff.

Encouraging to hear that your zoysia bounced back so fast.


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## NOVAZoysia (Jun 21, 2019)

M32075 said:


> Possible heat stroke or heart attack dethatching a zoysia lawn by hand.


 :lol: So true. I raked the smallest 2 square foot area and quickly realized that not only would it take till Christmas to finish, but it also might literally kill me.


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## NOVAZoysia (Jun 21, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> Better yet, get a mower capable of mowing the Zoysia down to 0.25" or dirt whichever comes first. Then maintain at 0.4-0.5".


That'd be a switch to a reel mower, right? Ooo, that might be ambitious for a newbie for the moment, a newbie with budget constraints, but I like your ambition!  For now, I'm thinking baby steps. Over next couple cuts, today and later this week, get it down to, say, 2". Then dethatch. Then see what happens. The classic "see what happens" plan. 

I'll drop some pictures in here for you all, to document the great dethatching! Next weekend -- weather permitting.


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## drewwitt (Jun 25, 2018)

NOVAZoysia said:


> Cool - your story gives me hope! That little Sun Joe does seem to get some good reviews. Good enough I'll be ordering one so I can have it for next weekend, if weather permits. It's $95 on Amazon right now so I'll consider myself lucky. That Lowes rake at least has shown me the problem up close and personal -- can't believe how much dead stuff comes up! Er, 17 years of dead stuff.
> 
> Encouraging to hear that your zoysia bounced back so fast.


That's a great deal! I just looked up my price in April and it was $125. I honestly don't use the Lowe's rake anymore. I kept it in case I need to do small sections or areas that the machine can't get in.

Don't be fooled by the playschool feel. It's legit and can do damage.

I started on it's lightest setting (I think +10?) and would do perpendicular passes. That worked for me.

Caution: keep an eye on that depth setting lever. Somewhere along the way it either got bumped, or my kids played with it, and there was one section that I noticed the machine was doing significant removal and tearing up runners. I looked and the setting was changed to -10 (the deepest cut). Those sections bounced back fine, but there are two or three little spots that are still bare dirt and are slowly filling in. Just like in woodworking, you can always take away material, you can't put it back. Go light and slow.

Also, the comments about getting a higher gauge extension cord are real. Make sure you get the proper gauge cord. You'll risk burning up the motor if not.

I'm excited that it came with both a slit/seeder blade set and the dethatch tines. I haven't used the blade set yet.

I dropped my rotary down to the lowest setting (1") and scalped (while bagging) and did two passes. Then I did two passes with the sunjoe. Then raked up the material and disposed of it. Then ran over with the rotary again.

Your lawn will look awful and you might have a WTF moment. Keep calm. Hit it with 1/2lb N of a quick release fertilizer and water generously. In two weeks you should see new growth. Six weeks later your grass will be filled in and look better. Raise your mower up a notch or two and maintain that higher cut of 1.5-2".

Every time I'm out in the yard - EVERY TIME - someone stops and asks me what kind of grass I have or if it's artificial. It's amazing what scalping, dethatching, and regular mowing will do.


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## drewwitt (Jun 25, 2018)

NOVAZoysia said:


> Greendoc said:
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> > Better yet, get a mower capable of mowing the Zoysia down to 0.25" or dirt whichever comes first. Then maintain at 0.4-0.5".
> ...


It's impossible to describe the difference between zoysia hacked with a rotary at 2" and zoysia cared for with a reel mower with a front roller at 1/2". Words like 'perfection' and 'beautiful' are a starting place.

I felt the same, but found a trucut (you want the heaviest of reels for zoysia to prevent floating) for $200. The guy inherited it from a deceased uncle and wasn't sure if it was a mower or not. He was going to rip the honda engine off for a go-cart project. I took it to a golf course and paid the mechanic $60 to sharpen it and my life has never been the same. :lol:


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## drewwitt (Jun 25, 2018)

NOVAZoysia said:


> Cool - your story gives me hope!


Here are the pictures as promised. I dethatched (more like removed dead grass clippings) on April 30th. The after pictures are from June 21st. 7 weeks later. I also did two rounds of leveling with sand in that time. The yellow you see in the after pictures are areas being filled in with sand.

*Dethaching. This is all dead grass clippings.*








*Lawn cleaned up right after scalping and dethatching:*




*Filled up an entire bin just by doing these three small areas:*


7 weeks later:


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

NOVAZoysia said:


> Greendoc said:
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> > Better yet, get a mower capable of mowing the Zoysia down to 0.25" or dirt whichever comes first. Then maintain at 0.4-0.5".
> ...


Doing baby steps delays the inevitable and prolongs the time the lawn does not look good. If I were intent on not using a reel mower, no Zoysia or Bermuda.


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## NOVAZoysia (Jun 21, 2019)

drewwitt said:


> Here are the pictures as promised. I dethatched (more like removed dead grass clippings) on April 30th. The after pictures are from June 21st. 7 weeks later. I also did two rounds of leveling with sand in that time. The yellow you see in the after pictures are areas being filled in with sand.


Thanks kindly for the pictures! These are great. Can't believe the "after" difference. During the 7-week transition, did you mow as frequently as usual, and at the usual/preferred height? Did you fertilize during that time? Or just let nature bring it back and fill in the gaps?

Yesterday I used an older picture of the lawn that really showed up the browner areas, to do some quick spot-dethatching with the Lowes rake. An abdominal workout that turned out to be. Pain for gain. Feeling it today! Ack. So the pic was a kind of "heat" map. Then I cut it on 2.5" setting. Just working it down in prep for more serious dethatching. You know what worked well for picking up my piles of thatch? Using my little combo leaf blower/vacuum! It hoover'd them right up easy-peezy.


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## NOVAZoysia (Jun 21, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> NOVAZoysia said:
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Oh I hear ya! I'll get to the reel life one day. I have hearing issues, and I like the idea of QUIET mowing -- nice ancillary bonus to the nicer cut!


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## drewwitt (Jun 25, 2018)

NOVAZoysia said:


> Greendoc said:
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Manual: Fiskars. They're the Cadillac of the push reels in my opinion. $200 new, or $50 on Craigslist or Facebook. I see barely used ones on there all the time after people realize how much work it is to push.

Powered: if you want quiet, there is nothing better than the Swardman Electra. $3,000.


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## drewwitt (Jun 25, 2018)

> Thanks kindly for the pictures! These are great. Can't believe the "after" difference. During the 7-week transition, did you mow as frequently as usual, and at the usual/preferred height? Did you fertilize during that time? Or just let nature bring it back and fill in the gaps?


I scalped before to 1" and then maintained slightly above immediately. I did it in April and it wasn't warm yet for the grass to really be growing as it is now. You will want to hit it with fert and water 1 - 1.25" per week depending on heat.

If you're comfortable with calibrating fertilizer, you'll want 1/4 pound of nitrogen of a quick release. If you can get your hands on a liquid fertilizer that's even better. It starts working immediately.


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

drewwitt said:


> NOVAZoysia said:
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I'm seeing good reviews on this manual, including a few who like it better than the Fiskars. I think it has more blades? The recommend it for thick warm season grasses, versus the 5 blade for cool season grass. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LYVKRI9/?coliid=I3BEC4L4NA2LYH&colid=1OGMCN1720PGJ&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


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## drewwitt (Jun 25, 2018)

ktgrok said:


> I'm seeing good reviews on this manual, including a few who like it better than the Fiskars. I think it has more blades? The recommend it for thick warm season grasses, versus the 5 blade for cool season grass. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LYVKRI9/?coliid=I3BEC4L4NA2LYH&colid=1OGMCN1720PGJ&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


I like that option. I wish my fiskars had 7 blades and a roller.


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## hefegrass (Mar 20, 2019)

I would get the sun joe and dethatch..next spring scalp the lawn as low as you can and it will reset the shoot height and you should have much less thatch. you can alwasy do a scalp now but depending how hot its going to be it could be damaging to the lawn.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

ktgrok said:


> drewwitt said:
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A 7 blade manual reel will work for Bermuda from seed between 3/4-1. Of course, that is on Bermuda not overfertilized


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## NOVAZoysia (Jun 21, 2019)

Greetings! Quick update! Well, work and weather are not cooperating as I would have preferred, so far. Haven't been able to get the lawn down to 2" yet, in prep for the dethatch. I'll wait 4 days, then think, "time to get it to 2 from 2.5!" Only to have a nice fat wet thunderstorm while driving home from work to get the mowing done. lol. (D.C. thunderstorms surprise the weather people as much as they do us.) And only to also find out the storms and humidity have made Mr. Zoysia grow, such that getting down to 2" in one jump would violate the 1/3 rule. Urgh. Anyway! I'm at 2.5 as of last night but my dethatcher recommends 2 inches for best operation. I ended up buying the Greenworks dethatcher instead of the Sun Joe, only because about 11 seconds after the Sun Joe was $95, as I mentioned last weekend, it jumped in like 12 hours to $148. Sigh. Snooze you lose. (I'm only paranoid because I know Amazon is following me  )

Today I'll TRY the dethatcher at highest setting and just see how bad it chokes on the 2.5-inch grass height. I might have to wait another few days, then try to get down to 2" without the weather foiling my evil plan. Oh and @ktgrok I really like that 7-blade Earthwise reel! Might do the job without further crushing my bankroll. I need to find a cheaper obsession. :lol:


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

@NOVAZoysia , my earth wise is being delivered today, I'll let you know how it goes! (mind you, I have about 4 patches of grass high enough to mow....maybe 5 square feet total, lol. I should just take a pair of scissors to it but I want to try the new mower)


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## ktgrok (May 25, 2019)

@NOVAZoysia , it came! So easy to push my 2 year old can do it!!! And yeah, there isn't much grass there, but I cut a few swaths of my neighbors' lawns to see how it did on actual grass/weeds and it was still super easy! It does miss some longer weeds/crabgrass, but it is so super easy to just back it up and hit it again, like, without even thinking about it. Fast, quiet, amazing. 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10156602662243666


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## NOVAZoysia (Jun 21, 2019)

ktgrok said:


> @NOVAZoysia , it came! So easy to push my 2 year old can do it!!! And yeah, there isn't much grass there, but I cut a few swaths of my neighbors' lawns to see how it did on actual grass/weeds and it was still super easy! It does miss some longer weeds/crabgrass, but it is so super easy to just back it up and hit it again, like, without even thinking about it. Fast, quiet, amazing.


 :lol: So great! Looks like you have all the help you need. Sign her up! I'm glad to hear the mower is working as advertised, especially because I bought one too yesterday afternoon -- will be here on Friday! Not sure I will be able to use it right away, as I still have to get Mr. Lawn down to a height where a reel mower will even be useful. Getting there though!

And in case anyone else happens to read this and might be wondering: I tested the Greenworks dethatcher on an inconspicuous patch of lawn and it works pretty darned well! Take that, price-jumping Amazon with your Sun Joe that I WOULD have bought. Even at 2.5" grass height it was indeed pulling up nice gobs of thatch -- without tearing the lawn to shreds, which I'd be worried about given we're going into the very hottest most stressful months of the season here. Really don't wanna kill my lawn -- that would tend to undercut the goal.


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## NOVAZoysia (Jun 21, 2019)

OK, first attempt at dethatching is in the books! For now anyway. The Greenworks did a plucky job, considering it feels like you're pushing along a toy. It has a Low, Middle, and High setting. Since "Middle of the Road" is pretty much my my middle name, I went with the middle setting.  I have no doubt there is more thatch there to be had, but I'm a little concerned about giving it too much of a beating too fast (plus I read somewhere on an extension site that you don't want to try to take it all out in one go with zoysia because of the time zoysia takes to recover. Given that I'm exhausted and it's bleeping hot out, I'm enjoying that advice 

I may or may not give it another go ultimately. We'll see.

I decided to do this process at lawn height 2.5" even though Greenworks advises 2". The weather map for this coming week just wasn't going to cooperate, given I won't get a full day again until Friday to do it. Still, though, I did get plenty of old junk out of there -- better than NO old junk. 

Next plan is to get down to 2" and stay there at least until grass starts to get happier -- and hope the new reel mower doesn't mind the not-too-steep slope of this hill.

Here's a "before" picture:



And here's another before picture:



Here's some of the fruit of my labors:



More fruit:



One more round of fruit:



And here's an "after" picture, after taking the rotary mower and bagger over the piles and hoovering them up. I totally expected it, but it's still disconcerting to do something good for your lawn and have it come out looking WORSE than it did before you started. Hahaha. Definitely lost some "green" in this process:



And one more After pic:


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Problem with doing it half way is that you will see a lot of dead material still under the green. I am really frustrated with how people are not told the truth about what is involved in maintaining Zoysia. It really frustrates me. Starting with how most universities give out recommendations designed to be similar to what is suggested for non irrigated TTTF. Does not translate well to a warm season grass that has an extensive rhizome system and a high potential for generating thatch.


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## NOVAZoysia (Jun 21, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> Problem with doing it half way is that you will see a lot of dead material still under the green. I am really frustrated with how people are not told the truth about what is involved in maintaining Zoysia. It really frustrates me. Starting with how most universities give out recommendations designed to be similar to what is suggested for non irrigated TTTF. Does not translate well to a warm season grass that has an extensive rhizome system and a high potential for generating thatch.


Yeah, it's hard to know what is best, from a novice's perspective -- you see a university extension site and you think, "they must know a ton more than I do about this stuff."

Would I be safe to take another pass at taking out more thatch? I'm sure there's more there. Hit it again, maybe at the lowest setting? Could I do so, say, one week from now? I've lost what I had of my energy for today. 

Thanks kindly for chiming in!


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Thatch removal as it is done is wasted work. Technique is applicable to cool season grasses. Zoysia is an entirely different animal. To remove the trash and ensure it looks good when it grows back, it must be scalped down to the dirt. No exceptions, no other way of doing it. If further removal of material is needed, a carbide tipped scarifyer may be used _AFTER_ scalping down to the dirt is done.


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## ThomasPI (May 18, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> Thatch removal as it is done is wasted work. Technique is applicable to cool season grasses. Zoysia is an entirely different animal. To remove the trash and ensure it looks good when it grows back, it must be scalped down to the dirt. No exceptions, no other way of doing it. If further removal of material is needed, a carbide tipped scarifyer may be used _AFTER_ scalping down to the dirt is done.


Dead on info OP. I started to research turf at local university extension and branched out from there and found a fair amount of conflicting information and by the grace of God ended up on this site. I've read lot of @Greendoc posts here and try to learn a little even day. From a real world perspective of a pro that lives and breaths Zoysia daily, you'll be hard pressed to gather any better info anywhere and certainly not at the local university level.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

It is a different world when dealing with a grass touted as low maintenance, but its owners expect it to be almost blue and totally flat. Low maintenance Zoysia is not fertilized at all, not watered, mowed high. But that appearance is not acceptable to people expecting golf turf lawns. In fact, I have started talking to customers about their Zoysia lawns regarding what they expect from it appearance wise. I think many of them are better served not having the grass at all.


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## JOE SCHMOE (May 6, 2019)

Greendoc said:


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## Tmank87 (Feb 13, 2019)

Itll destroy your mower long before you kill the trees!


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Area under a tree should not be turf grass at all. Too much to go wrong. From herbicide uptake to mower damage. I hear you. That is why I do not believe in keeping grass under a tree's dripline


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