# Pennstater's 2021 Lawn Journal (Starts Page 59)



## pennstater2005

I attempted an over seed last year that ultimately failed. The new grass came in but the old grass took over and it looked worse this year than last. I was not planning on a renovation in this section of the yard but after seeing all the dead areas I had to.

I've started this evening by spraying glyphosate. My next steps are scalping this weekend. Then fallowing for at least a couple weeks. I am going to use a 5 way PRG that is actually the better grass you can see in some of the pictures below. It's from the Oliger Seed Co sold locally. I'm hoping to get seed down maybe 3rd week in August.

Some pics to start:

















I don't have irrigation so I'm looking for recommendations for a good sprinkler. Any ideas? The cheapie I had last year broke already.

This is from the Oliger website, it's in PDF form regarding the 5 way PRG:

http://www.oligerseed.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/5-Way-Ryegrass.pdf

*"5-Way Perennial Rye"

6 lbs/1,000 sq ft
20% Revenge GLX Perennial Ryegrass
20% Stellar 3GLR Perennial Ryegrass
20% Paragon GLR Perennial Ryegrass
20% Amazing A+ Perennial Ryegrass
20% Fiesta 4 Perennial Ryegrass*


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## j4c11

I really like these for watering seed during renovation. The spray is even and they don't drip and pool water.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Orbit-5-000-sq-ft-Rotating-Spike-Lawn-Sprinkler/3678506

I don't use them for regular watering as the gpm is somewhat low and they take long.


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## GrassDaddy

Great job on the marking dye. When I did it I used too little and missed spots. Made for some hideous looking lawn =P


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## pennstater2005

j4c11 said:


> I really like these for watering seed during renovation. The spray is even and they don't drip and pool water.
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/Orbit-5-000-sq-ft-Rotating-Spike-Lawn-Sprinkler/3678506
> 
> I don't use them for regular watering as the gpm is somewhat low and they take long.


Thanks for the recommendation, I'll definitely be checking that out. Price is nice as well.



GrassDaddy said:


> Great job on the marking dye. When I did it I used too little and missed spots. Made for some hideous looking lawn =P


Through trial and error I've learned to use more dye than is instructed. I like it super dark now!

I'm torn on whether to use a mix of KBG/PRG/Fescue or the 5 way rye I mentioned above. The middle part of the backyard is the 5 way rye. I feel like it will blend better but I'm not sure.


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## Colonel K0rn

I've got say this, gloves on your hands, but flip flops while spraying glyphosate and marking dye? You're a brave man :lol:

I'll be interested to see how it turns out, you've got a nice area to work with now.


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## social port

Yes, really nice use of marking dye.
I have to recommend these impact sprinklers, though they are probably not the best choice for seeding.
https://www.amazon.com/Gilmour-Adjustable-Circular-Sprinkler-196SPB/dp/B0036GA7K8
They are highly customizable. A pattern ring allows you to modify the spraying pattern based on the idiosyncrasies and irregularities in the shape of your lawn. As with most impact sprinklers, you can reduce the intensity of the spray. You probably won't be able to achieve a mist, but you can probably avoid knocking your seeds all over the place.

Again, probably not the best choice for seeding, but perhaps something to consider once you get some growth.


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## pennstater2005

Colonel K0rn said:


> I've got say this, gloves on your hands, but flip flops while spraying glyphosate and marking dye? You're a brave man :lol:
> 
> I'll be interested to see how it turns out, you've got a nice area to work with now.


Crap.....you noticed. This wasn't really planned out well. I thought I was just going to do a very small section so I figured one tank and I'd be done. Ten tanks later...... 



social port said:


> Yes, really nice use of marking dye.
> I have to recommend these impact sprinklers, though they are probably not the best choice for seeding.
> https://www.amazon.com/Gilmour-Adjustable-Circular-Sprinkler-196SPB/dp/B0036GA7K8
> They are highly customizable. A pattern ring allows you to modify the spraying pattern based on the idiosyncrasies and irregularities in the shape of your lawn. As with most impact sprinklers, you can reduce the intensity of the spray. You probably won't be able to achieve a mist, but you can probably avoid knocking your seeds all over the place.
> 
> Again, probably not the best choice for seeding, but perhaps something to consider once you get some growth.


The area I sprayed I tried to keep square but it's not perfect and definitely has some irregularities. I'll give it a look. I've found from looking online there are lots of different sprinklers. Is Melnor a decent brand?


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## g-man

For a rectangular area I would use an oscillating sprinkler. You could set near and parrellel to the trees and cover that area.


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## pennstater2005

^
That's what I used on last year's failed over seed. That Gilmore failed after a year though. They have a warranty but it's a pain in the butt form online that's barely even worth it.

I've found this Melnor line (link below) and it looks promising. It is an oscillating sprinkler. The trees are my issue as last year I had to water differently to get to the small area behind them. It's a swath maybe 3-5ft wide and 75 feet long.

https://www.amazon.com/Melnor-Oscillating-Sprinkler-Control-waters/dp/B00004SDVX/ref=zg_bs_553974_7?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=7KKV23JKJ29NHK948NFW&th=1#Ask


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## pennstater2005

Any thoughts of an all PRG lawn in the back? The middle section is a 5 way PRG. It always does well. Or maybe 90/10 PRG/KBG.


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## pennstater2005

Sprayed a little extra glyphosate to make a rectangle. It was a bit of an odd shape and I figured for watering purposes it would be easier. Also used some orange flags to help keep the kids away from it.


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## LIgrass

With the sprinklers, I tried both the orbit one recommended earlier and the pattern master. I found the orbit spike one didn't throw anywhere near its stated distance and returned that one. I kept the pattern master. Used that and an oscillating sprinkler before I installed irrigation. Is there any way you can run two sprinklers? You need at least 2 to get 100% coverage (unless you're moving them around) otherwise I would go with the pattern master again and overshoot the ends. Do a test with the sprinklers you're using. Put a cup at each corner and one near the middle. See which one puts a more even amount in each cup.


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## pennstater2005

Scalped and bagged today. How long do I wake before I start to fallow?


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## RockyMtnLawnNut

I think you probably want to start "fallowing" now for a couple of reasons:

1. Get any weeds to germinate
2. Find out if you missed some areas at all with the glyphosate and hit them again


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## pennstater2005

RockyMtnLawnNut said:


> I think you probably want to start "fallowing" now for a couple of reasons:
> 
> 1. Get any weeds to germinate
> 2. Find out if you missed some areas at all with the glyphosate and hit them again


Thanks. I just need to pick up a sprinkler and get started.


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## pennstater2005

Got the Melnor oscillating sprinkler. Worked well overall. How often do I water this when fallowing.


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## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> How often do I water this when fallowing.


Water it like you would if you just seeded. Keep it moist. Light and frequently. It will also be good practice for when it is time to seed.


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## pennstater2005

LIgrass said:


> With the sprinklers, I tried both the orbit one recommended earlier and the pattern master. I found the orbit spike one didn't throw anywhere near its stated distance and returned that one. I kept the pattern master. Used that and an oscillating sprinkler before I installed irrigation. Is there any way you can run two sprinklers? You need at least 2 to get 100% coverage (unless you're moving them around) otherwise I would go with the pattern master again and overshoot the ends. Do a test with the sprinklers you're using. Put a cup at each corner and one near the middle. See which one puts a more even amount in each cup.


Not sure how I missed this post...I thought about 2 sprinklers which definitely would've been easier but my water pressure is not great. The sprinkler I got was stated as being able to cover up to 53' wide by 75' long. It's nowhere close to that for me but some have had it close. I might just have to hand water a few corners.



Pete1313 said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How often do I water this when fallowing.
> 
> 
> 
> Water it like you would if you just seeded. Keep it moist. Light and frequently. It will also be good practice for when it is time to seed.
Click to expand...

That is what I did last night. I think I watered too heavily during my failed over seed last year. Thanks!


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## pennstater2005

Even after scalping I have a fairly thick mat of grass. Will that continue to thin out after the glyphosate app last week or will I need to try to scalp down further? I want to make sure I get good seed to soil contact.

I'm still up in the air regarding what seed to use.


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## kolbasz

If you throw seed in it, well it float on grass or touch dirt?


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## pennstater2005

As of right now it's still pretty thick, dying grass. I've never done a reno so I'm wondering if the grass will continue to thin out on its own or do I need to try and scalp lower?


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## Pete1313

It will thin out/break down some, but in my opinion, now is the time to get in there with a rake and get as much stuff out of there as possible. Also try scalping lower. If you can see some soil between the stubble your golden.


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## ericgautier

pennstater2005 said:


> As of right now it's still pretty thick, dying grass. I've never done a reno so I'm wondering if the grass will continue to thin out on its own or do I need to try and scalp lower?


Try and scalp as low as you can. :thumbup: Go over it a few times in different passes. You'll be amazed at how much stuff you'll pick up at different directions.


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## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> It will thin out/break down some, but in my opinion, now is the time to get in there with a rake and get as much stuff out of there as possible. Also try scalping lower. If you can see some soil between the stubble your golden.


Thanks. I borrowed my neighbors mower because he had a bagger. I'm hoping my rider will go a little lower. I haven't raked yet so that's on the agenda. Just not much soil showing yet. There was some thick weed grass matted down in there.


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## pennstater2005

ericgautier said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As of right now it's still pretty thick, dying grass. I've never done a reno so I'm wondering if the grass will continue to thin out on its own or do I need to try and scalp lower?
> 
> 
> 
> Try and scalp as low as you can. :thumbup: Go over it a few times in different passes. You'll be amazed at how much stuff you'll pick up at different directions.
Click to expand...

My rider might go lower than the neighbors push or at least I'm hoping. Maybe if it does scalp lower and ruins the blades I might actually be inspired to replace them 😁


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## pennstater2005

I was able to go lower with the rider. That was some slow mowing though. I have one more deck height drop left. I'll have to rake tomorrow. Still trying to expose soil.


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## pennstater2005

After work tonight I hope to get those clippings bagged and then drop the deck on the rider to it's lowest setting to scalp one last time. I don't have any ability to go lower than that. The weedy grass that is there is growing low and sideways and difficult to rake out.

After that I plan on scouring the area for weeds and returning grass and hit it again with glypho. Been watering now the last few days lightly to encourage the weed growth.

If this is successful I will do the rest of the backyard in sections like this. Quite honestly, it's more than enough work for me and I don't know how you guys with large reno areas do it. Consider me impressed!


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## Pete1313

Sounds like a plan! Take a closeup pic standing right on top of it looking down when you are done.


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## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> Sounds like a plan! Take a closeup pic standing right on top of it looking down when you are done.


Will do!


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## g-man

Thick mat of grass alive or dead?if alive, then more round up. If dead, then scalp more, bag and rake and bag again. Use an old beat up blade to scalp.


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## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> Thick mat of grass alive or dead?if alive, then more round up. If dead, then scalp more, bag and rake and bag again. Use an old beat up blade to scalp.


Mostly dead but thick enough that it makes it hard to tell. Plus, I think I used a tad too much dye so it's all blue not green :lol: Destroying these blades on the rider is good motivation to finally get new ones!


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## pennstater2005

Some pictures of what I'm dealing with.





First picture thicker with not much long stuff and second picture longer that pulls by hand. Problem is I don't really want to pull it by hand.


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## Pete1313

First pic almost looks ready. As long as the canopy is open so the seed can fall thru and touch soil. Shoot some pics after you have scalped on the lowest setting.


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## pennstater2005

What's funny is the good area had minimal weeds. That was the five way rye. The thick, stringy section is the reason I'm doing this! I'll post more pics when I get more mowed, raked, and off the area.


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## pennstater2005

Scalped tonight at lowest deck height. It made a difference. I'll bag and rake tomorrow and then get some close up pictures. Definitely looks better than yesterday.


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## Pete1313

Nice!


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## pennstater2005

Pretty good rain here today. Couldn't do anything. Hoping it dries out tomorrow so I can bag and rake. Then I can see where I'm at.


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## pennstater2005

Raked some but it is just so thick in some areas. I might have to consider renting a slit seeder.


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## Roosterchest

pennstater2005 said:


> Raked some but it is just so thick in some areas. I might have to consider renting a slit seeder


Do the slit seeder---you won't be alone (I'm doing it). Get the best seed to soil contact. I'd hate to have a failed reno or less than optimal because of poor seed to soil contact.


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## pennstater2005

Roosterchest said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Raked some but it is just so thick in some areas. I might have to consider renting a slit seeder
> 
> 
> 
> Do the slit seeder---you won't be alone (I'm doing it). Get the best seed to soil contact. I'd hate to have a failed reno or less than optimal because of poor seed to soil contact.
Click to expand...

It's looking very likely. That layer just doesn't want to give. If I slit seed do I still need to topdress? I bought a tackifier but may not need it then.


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## Roosterchest

[/quote]

I If I slit seed do I still need to topdress? I bought a tackifier but may not need it then.
[/quote]

I'm not planning on top dressing. When you slit seed you're putting the seed about 1/4-1/2 in into the soil. If you top dress on top of that, you're looking at 1 in topping the seed. Seems like overkill and extra work/money.


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## pennstater2005

Another image of what I'm trying to rake today. Does this have to come up if I slit seed?


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## pennstater2005

Let's see if this works :lol:



Somehow I'm always in sandals.


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## Fronta1

pennstater2005 said:


> Let's see if this works :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Somehow I'm always in sandals.


 :lol: Best picture ever. You're a genius.


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## pennstater2005

^
That's not the same word my wife used! I like it better


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## Jhug89

Looks like fun!!


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## pennstater2005

Jhug89 said:


> Looks like fun!!


It was! It sort of worked. It burned off the matted grass but it's still fairly thick. My wife had a good idea of using the weed whacker to chop up some of the longer stuff that's stubborn. If that works then I can just bag those clippings.


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## pennstater2005

Before weed whacking.



After weed whacking.


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## Colonel K0rn

pennstater2005 said:


> Before weed whacking.
> 
> 
> 
> After weed whacking.


 :thumbup: Nice job. General Sherman would be proud.


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## wardconnor

pennstater2005 said:


> Raked some but it is just so thick in some areas. I might have to consider renting a slit seeder.


Buy a manual thatch rake. A very valuable tool to rough up soil for seed prep.

Does the same thing essentially as the slit seeder.


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## pennstater2005

Regarding the slit seeder I mentioned earlier. The one I would rent would be the Classen TS20. It shows it can convert to a turf rake or vertical cutter. Does anyone know how it does this? I could use it to help remove that dense layer of cover I still have. I might just call Classen tomorrow. It would save me a whole lot of work.


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## Roosterchest

pennstater2005 said:


> I might just call Classen tomorrow. It would save me a whole lot of work.


If you call, let me know what they say. I will be renting that model in a few weeks.


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## pennstater2005

Roosterchest said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might just call Classen tomorrow. It would save me a whole lot of work.
> 
> 
> 
> If you call, let me know what they say. I will be renting that model in a few weeks.
Click to expand...

Will do!


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## Ware

I converted my Classen TR-20 turf rake from the flail blades to the vertical slicing blades here. The different blade cartridge options are probably not something most rental places offer. That said, I think the slit seeder uses these blades, which should work fine for dethatching:


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## pennstater2005

Ware said:


> I converted my Classen TR-20 turf rake from the flail blades to the vertical slicing blades here. The different blade cartridge options are probably not something most rental places offer. That said, I think the slit seeder uses these blades, which should work fine for dethatching:


Good info, thanks! So to use those just seed box off and then lower blades into thatch layer?


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## Ware

pennstater2005 said:


> Good info, thanks! So to use those just seed box off and then lower blades into thatch layer?


Yes, and you may not even need to take the seed box off.


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## pennstater2005

Ware said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good info, thanks! So to use those just seed box off and then lower blades into thatch layer?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and you may not even need to take the seed box off.
Click to expand...

This will save me a lot of time. Will I still need to top dress or is that unnecessary if slit seeding?


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## Ware

pennstater2005 said:


> This will save me a lot of time. Will I still need to top dress or is that unnecessary if slit seeding?


Now you're talking about something that is over my head. I have no seeding experience, but I will be following your thread! :lol:


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## pennstater2005

Ware said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This will save me a lot of time. Will I still need to top dress or is that unnecessary if slit seeding?
> 
> 
> 
> Now you're talking about something that is over my head. I have no seeding experience, but I will be following your thread! :lol:
Click to expand...

My gut tells me I'll still need a little topdressing but what do I know 😜 I'm really over analyzing this whole thing.


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## Roosterchest

I won't be topdressing. Just water and starter fert. Maybe some Milorganite as well.


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## wardconnor

So I have a slice seeder shown below. It has a seed hopper. I don't use the hopper. I just use the machine to rough up the soil really good. I don't recommend using hopper. The hopper drops seed at all locations in a straight line all across the length of the hopper. It drops seed in the slits that the machine cuts. It also drops seeds on the ground where the slit was not cut just to the side of the slit.

Just use the machine in several directions like 4 different directions to rough up soil to about one half inch down. Then use the broadcast spreader to spread seed. Then use landscape rake ever so slightly to add a small amount of soil on top of the seed. Then peat moss or clean sawdust for moisture holding factor.

Just get the machine with or without the hopper. Just don't put the seed in it.

My main reason to have machine to date considering my lawn is full is for the thinning out factor. The verticutter factor.


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## pennstater2005

^
Ward

You said it drops seed in the slits and not in the slits. You're saying there is seed that the hopper puts down that is just lying on the surface?

If this is the case I would almost opt for that dethatching rake you linked and save the money on a rental.

I haven't ruled anything out yet and appreciate the advice.


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## J_nick

I think he meant it drops seed *on* the slots and not in the slots.


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## pennstater2005

Is that a flaw with all slit seeders or just certain models?


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## wardconnor

My choice of words was confusing. I edited that post and reword it. I'm sorry about that.

Think of the one your speaking of and mine as like a normal run of the mill walk behind drop spreader that you buy at Walmart for like $29.99. Like the ones to spread fert or seeds. It just happens to be mounted to a machine that cuts slits.

The machine (mine) cuts a slit (it cuts several sits at once) then drops a line of seeds. They just drop onto the ground after the slit is cut. Some will by nature fall into the slit. Some won't. Where the slit was not cut the seed falls on the ground. It's doesn't specifically place seeds right in slit.

There are higher end slit seeders that drop seeds right in the slit row and not on bare ground. Like this video below.

I think your just as good with manual thatch rake depending on how many sq feet we are talking about and you'll save coin.

Like I was saying I like the machine more for verti cutter and roughing up soil for seed bed prep.

What j nick said is pretty much correct.

https://youtu.be/DfJ_u490z0M


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## pennstater2005

wardconnor said:


> My choice of words was confusing. I edit edited that post and reword it. I'm sorry about that.
> 
> Think of the one your speaking of and mine as like a normal run of the mill walk behind drop spreader that you buy at Walmart for like $29.99. Like the ones to spread fert or seeds. It just happens to be mounted to a machine that cuts slits.
> 
> The machine (mine) cuts a slit (it cuts several sits at once) then drops a line of seeds. They just drop onto the ground after the slit is cut. Some will by nature fall into the slit. Some won't. Where the slit was not cut the seed falls on the ground. It's doesn't specifically place seeds right in slit.
> 
> There are higher end slit seeders that drop seeds right in the slit row and not on bare ground. Like this video below.
> 
> I think your just as good with manual thatch rake depending on how many sq feet we are talking about and you'll save coin.
> 
> Like I was saying I like the machine more for verti cutter and roughing up soil for seed bed prep.
> 
> What j nick said is pretty much correct.


Thank you for further explaining that. That video gave me a better of idea of how a true slicer/seeder works. I'll stick with the broadcast spreader. Heck, I already spent the money on the tackifier to help keep the seed/peat moss in place. I guess I still have a little more manual labor to do :x


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## pennstater2005

Used the regular old steel bow rake. I'm exposing more soil now. Some stringy stuff in there but I may give it a light weed whacking. Does it look passable here?


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## Pete1313

I see lots of soil. You will have no problem seeding into that!


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## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> I see lots of soil. You will have no problem seeding into that!


Good! Only a thousand more square feet of that to do!


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## wardconnor

pennstater2005 said:


> Only a thousand more square feet of that to do!


Only 1000 more? Yeah no need for rental of seeder. A thatch rake will be a good investment in my opinion. The raking your doing will be much easier. Although its hard work regardless of the rake you use.

Good work there. I like what your doing.


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## pennstater2005

wardconnor said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a thousand more square feet of that to do!
> 
> 
> 
> Only 1000 more? Yeah no need for rental of seeder. A thatch rake will be a good investment in my opinion. The raking your doing will be much easier. Although its hard work regardless of the rake you use.
> 
> Good work there. I like what your doing.
Click to expand...

You convinced me not to rent the seeder, especially after watching more videos of the TS20 which confirmed it.


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## pennstater2005

Raked out all the dense growth with a thatch rake. It worked really well. Ordered seed today. I ended up going through E.H. Griffiths as I couldn't get a call back from another dealer regarding seed. I went with a 50/50 KBG/PRG mix. All elite cultivars.

So, the one thing I don't have yet is Tenacity. If I don't spray this at seed down am I going to regret it?


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## ericgautier

pennstater2005 said:


> So, the one thing I don't have yet is Tenacity. If I don't spray this at seed down am I going to regret it?


You can use the Scotts Starter w/ Mesotrione at seed down.


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## Budstl

You can use scotts starter with mesotrione in granular form.

Edit. Eric beat me to it.


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## g-man

pennstater2005 said:


> So, the one thing I don't have yet is Tenacity. If I don't spray this at seed down am I going to regret it?


Regret it? Likely.

Amazon will get you the liquid version in two days. As other suggested, the Scott fertilizer has it in granular, it is just more expensive and tied to a fertilizer.


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## pennstater2005

ericgautier said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, the one thing I don't have yet is Tenacity. If I don't spray this at seed down am I going to regret it?
> 
> 
> 
> You can use the Scotts Starter w/ Mesotrione at seed down.
Click to expand...

Forgot about that stuff. I'm surprised at how expensive it is!



Budstl said:


> You can use scotts starter with mesotrione in granular form.
> 
> Edit. Eric beat me to it.


Thanks!



g-man said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, the one thing I don't have yet is Tenacity. If I don't spray this at seed down am I going to regret it?
> 
> 
> 
> Regret it? Likely.
> 
> Amazon will get you the liquid version in two days. As other suggested, the Scott fertilizer has it in granular, it is just more expensive and tied to a fertilizer.
Click to expand...

I've seen it for as low as $57. Seems crazy to spend $36 when for $20 more I could get enough to last me at least a few years. What is a good starter fertilizer if I don't get the Scotts product?


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## g-man

If you have good phosphorus levels from your soil report you might not need any. I like the Milo approach. I think pete1313 used Milo.


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## Budstl

I've used lesco starter fert from hd the past couple of years.


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## Budstl

Scratch that on the lesco. That bag covers way more than you need.


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## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, the one thing I don't have yet is Tenacity. If I don't spray this at seed down am I going to regret it?
> 
> 
> 
> Regret it? Likely.
> 
> Amazon will get you the liquid version in two days. As other suggested, the Scott fertilizer has it in granular, it is just more expensive and tied to a fertilizer.
Click to expand...

No soil test. I have a bag of milo that would cover it perfectly. Or I could just get a cheap fertilizer, maybe, a 5-10-5 or 10-20-10. Get a 50# bag from local store for $20. I'm going to order the Tenacity from Seed Ranch.com as it's only $59 with free shipping and no tax.

I think I'm about ready to go for seed down hopefully late next week. I'll get one more round of glyphosate in a day or two before. Need to pick up the peat moss. Couldn't find that rake that GrassDaddy used. At least not for what I wanted to spend


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## pennstater2005

Budstl said:


> Scratch that on the lesco. That bag covers way more than you need.


I still may consider that if they carry it at my HD. I can store it and use it next year when I renovate the other sections.


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## Fronta1

How about some liquid bone meal or guano
(Only some guanos are high in p, though)
If your reno area is small enough to spoon feed with some weekly liquid apps I would go that route


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## wardconnor

Get the 10-20-10


----------



## pennstater2005

Fronta1 said:


> How about some liquid bone meal or guano
> (Only some guanos are high in p, though)
> If your reno area is small enough to spoon feed with some weekly liquid apps I would go that route


You mean bat poop?!! How would I spread that :lol:



wardconnor said:


> Get the 10-20-10


Okay. It's cheaper than milorganite or any Scott's product in the long run.


----------



## pennstater2005

Still fallowing.......


----------



## ericgautier

Sounds like you are well on your way. :thumbup: Looking forward to your reno!


----------



## pennstater2005

ericgautier said:


> Sounds like you are well on your way. :thumbup: Looking forward to your reno!


I'm a bit nervous but can't wait to get seed down! Thanks


----------



## pennstater2005

All the stuff for the reno came today!





Everything came fast. EH Griffiths shipping charge was killer on the soil moist.

No syringe with the Tenacity 😕


----------



## Pete1313

Look at all those presents.. Exciting! When is the planned seed down date?


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> Look at all those presents.. Exciting! When is the planned seed down date?


This coming Tuesday! I was glad to get everything today. How do I measure such a small amount of tenacity without the syringe? I was thinking maybe dropper that comes with the baby Tylenol.


----------



## Pete1313

Dropper might work. Or go to your local pharmacy. They should be able to give you a syringe. I'f not, they will have cheap ones for sale.


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> Dropper might work. Or go to your local pharmacy. They should be able to give you a syringe. I'f not, they will have cheap ones for sale.


Great idea!! :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

How about I checked the contents on the seed label and instead of 25% each of Midnight and Everglade KBG it also has NuGlade.

I'm not really upset but it means the Midnight and Everglade KBG are in lower percentages than expected.

I'm still satisfied with the blend but did email and ask for a partial refund.


----------



## Roosterchest

pennstater2005 said:


> How about I checked the contents on the seed label and instead of 25% each of Midnight and Everglade KBG it also has NuGlade.


Still a good mix, but I understand the frustration. I've always been pleased with SSS and Preferred.


----------



## pennstater2005

Roosterchest said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about I checked the contents on the seed label and instead of 25% each of Midnight and Everglade KBG it also has NuGlade.
> 
> 
> 
> Still a good mix, but I understand the frustration. I've always been pleased with SSS and Preferred.
Click to expand...

I may try SSS for the other part of the backyard reno next year. Although if this mix turns out good it was only $21 for five pounds.


----------



## Roosterchest

pennstater2005 said:


> Roosterchest said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about I checked the contents on the seed label and instead of 25% each of Midnight and Everglade KBG it also has NuGlade.
> 
> 
> 
> Still a good mix, but I understand the frustration. I've always been pleased with SSS and Preferred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Although if this mix turns out good it was only $21 for five pounds.
Click to expand...

Can't beat that price.


----------



## wardconnor

Looking good. Gotta love that lawn loot. I love grass seed.


----------



## pennstater2005

wardconnor said:


> Looking good. Gotta love that lawn loot. I love grass seed.


Yeah it was a pretty nice surprise when I got home from work. Christmas in August! I'll be getting peat moss and a little topsoil for leveling today.


----------



## pennstater2005

I'm looking at starter fertilizer. Can I use 20/10/20. That or a balanced fertilizer.


----------



## pennstater2005

Ended up getting 12-24-9. Farm bag stuff so nice and cheap. 50# for $20.


----------



## pennstater2005

Got more dead grass out of the reno area. And picked up 8 bales of peat moss and 6 40lb bags of topsoil for leveling. I'm hoping to level tomorrow but not exactly sure how to build something to do it. I'll have to look around here a bit.


----------



## g-man

^ thats a good ratio. I've also used 6-24-24.


----------



## wardconnor

Good choice. You want the middle number to be higher for starter fert. The balanced would work if you can't get anything else.


----------



## pennstater2005

I ended up googling it and saw that phosphorus aids in root development. Got everything I need now. Debating one last glyphosate app tomorrow or Monday before seed down Tuesday. I'm off work this week which will be nice for watering needs since I don't have irrigation.


----------



## pennstater2005

Still working out dead grass. Almost done though. Kids are loading it into a five gallon bucket and then taking it away on the dune buggy!


----------



## pennstater2005

Another round (final one) of glyphosate today and then hopefully use new Kobalt leveling rake to move around 14 40# bags of top soil to finish it off. Then I should be ready for seed on Tuesday!!!!


----------



## pennstater2005

Last light round of glyphosate done!!!! Now to spread and level the topsoil.


----------



## g-man

^ no flip flops this time. :thumbup: :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> ^ no flip flops this time. :thumbup: :lol:


I started to question how smart that was :? Nitrile gloves too!


----------



## Pete1313

I'm diggin' the boots! :thumbsup: almost seed down time... getting excited!


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> I'm diggin' the boots! :thumbsup: almost seed down time... getting excited!


Can't wait for Tuesday!


----------



## pennstater2005

Does anyone have a recommended order when putting new seed down. I was thinking 1. Mix seed with starter fertilizer and soil moist and broadcast, 2. Spray Tenacity per label rate, 3. Peat moss, 4. Tackifier.

After this is all done do I water in immediately? I only ask this because of the Tenacity application.


----------



## wardconnor

I do not have any experience with tenacity. I wish that I did.

My method


fert down

seed down

peat

water

I would add tackifier after peat. Not sure where tenacity goes into the mix. I am guessing that if goes down very first but I could be wrong on that one.

mix seed moist with seed before you spread seed.


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> Does anyone have a recommended order when putting new seed down. I was thinking 1. Mix seed with starter fertilizer and soil moist and broadcast, 2. Spray Tenacity per label rate, 3. Peat moss, 4. Tackifier.
> 
> After this is all done do I water in immediately? I only ask this because of the Tenacity application.


I like this order! If you had plans on rolling in your seed, I would do that between steps 1 and 2. Begin watering as soon as you are done with the tackifier.


----------



## Pete1313

Also what is the "label rate" you plan for the tenacity?


----------



## Fronta1

Can I ask where you got your tackifier and how you applied it? Thanks.


----------



## pennstater2005

wardconnor said:


> I do not have any experience with tenacity. I wish that I did.
> 
> My method
> 
> 
> fert down
> 
> seed down
> 
> peat
> 
> water
> 
> I would add tackifier after peat. Not sure where tenacity goes into the mix. I am guessing that if goes down very first but I could be wrong on that one.
> 
> mix seed moist with seed before you spread seed.


Thanks Ward. I guess pretty close to what I was planning. I got the wrong soil moist, I have to crush it tonight and hopefully not breathe it in!



Pete1313 said:


> Also what is the "label rate" you plan for the tenacity?


I was planning .5tsp with 1.5tsp surfactant per 1 gallon for 1,0000 sq ft. Sound about right?



Fronta1 said:


> Can I ask where you got your tackifier and how you applied it? Thanks.


I got it here: https://www.naturesfinestseed.com/m-binder-mulch-tackifier-soil-stabilizer but haven't actually used it yet. I got the 10# bag and it shipped very fast.


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also what is the "label rate" you plan for the tenacity?
> 
> 
> 
> I was planning .5tsp with 1.5tsp surfactant per 1 gallon for 1,0000 sq ft. Sound about right?
Click to expand...

.5 teaspoon of tenacity in 1 gallon of water to cover 1000 square feet. Do not add surfactant. You add surfactant when you want to use it as a post-m and stick to weeds. Now you want it to get into the soil(pre-m).


----------



## Ridgerunner

Just finished reading this. My head is spinning. 
Anyway, good luck. All looks like it's falling into place.


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also what is the "label rate" you plan for the tenacity?
> 
> 
> 
> I was planning .5tsp with 1.5tsp surfactant per 1 gallon for 1,0000 sq ft. Sound about right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .5 teaspoon of tenacity in 1 gallon of water to cover 1000 square feet. Do not add surfactant. You add surfactant when you want to use it as a post-m and stick to weeds. Now you want it to get into the soil(pre-m).
Click to expand...

OK. No surfactant. Thanks! The instructions for the soil moist were inside the 1# container which was fun getting it out without spilling it :evil: Anyway, you are supposed to mix 4# per 1000k :shock: so I'm about 7# shy!!! I'll probably just broadcast it first before seed goes down and maybe just rake it in a little.



Ridgerunner said:


> Just finished reading this. My head is spinning.
> Anyway, good luck. All looks like it's falling into place.


You're brave....I'd have a headache after reading six pages of this :lol: Definitely a few things I'll do different next year when I do the rest of the backyard.


----------



## pennstater2005

Off we go! Seed, fert, and soil moist all mixed. Back and forth between buckets at least ten times.


----------



## g-man

Good luck!


----------



## ericgautier

Good luck! Keep us posted and post plenty of pictures.


----------



## Pete1313

Happy seed down day!


----------



## social port

Best day of the year! Get your beer ready!


----------



## RockyMtnLawnNut

Good luck!


----------



## pennstater2005

Thanks all! Ran out of peat moss :x Down to Home Depot for six more bales. Smooth so far otherwise. I ended up with extra Tenacity so most have under sprayed. Rather do that than overspray.

Almost done!


----------



## jimmy

pennstater2005 said:


> Thanks all! Ran out of peat moss :x Down to Home Depot for six more bales.


How many bales did you end up using total? I've always read 1-2 bales per 1k sq ft.


----------



## monty

jimmy said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks all! Ran out of peat moss :x Down to Home Depot for six more bales.
> 
> 
> 
> How many bales did you end up using total? I've always read 1-2 bales per 1k sq ft.
Click to expand...

How big is a bale?


----------



## pennstater2005

jimmy said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks all! Ran out of peat moss :x Down to Home Depot for six more bales.
> 
> 
> 
> How many bales did you end up using total? I've always read 1-2 bales per 1k sq ft.
Click to expand...

14 of the 3 cubic feet bales. That was mostly 1/8in covering. Didn't go nearly as far as I thought.


----------



## pennstater2005

Tackifier then water. All done  
.


----------



## Fronta1

Congratulations, Penn. How did you end up applying the tack?


----------



## ericgautier

Woohoo! Time for a cold one. :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

Fronta1 said:


> Congratulations, Penn. How did you end up applying the tack?


With the spreader. I think I ate more and more blew away in the wind.



ericgautier said:


> Woohoo! Time for a cold one. :thumbup:


Absolutely!!!


----------



## RockyMtnLawnNut

Way to go! Congrats. Now time to sit back and watch all your hard work turn into a lawn.


----------



## pennstater2005

RockyMtnLawnNut said:


> Way to go! Congrats. Now time to sit back and watch all your hard work turn into a lawn.


Thanks! Not looking forward to watering. No irrigation


----------



## Pete1313

Nice job Pennstater! :thumbsup:


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> Nice job Pennstater! :thumbsup:


Thanks Pete!


----------



## Roosterchest

Flashlight charged? Get some knee pads for all the kneeling you'll do looking for a sprout! Job well done!


----------



## pennstater2005

Roosterchest said:


> Flashlight charged? Get some knee pads for all the kneeling you'll do looking for a sprout! Job well done!


Thanks RC! With PRG in the mix I shouldn't have to wait too long :nod:


----------



## pennstater2005

Huge downpour tonight in Western PA but the tackifier held!!!! No peat moss and seed washed up at the bottom. I'll definitely be using that again next year.


----------



## Roosterchest

pennstater2005 said:


> Huge downpour tonight in Western PA but the tackifier held!!!! No peat moss and seed washed up at the bottom. I'll definitely be using that again next year.


Good to hear. I just went thru your picks and saw the little man helping. That's awesome. My son is 4 and is all about "lawning".


----------



## pennstater2005

Roosterchest said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Huge downpour tonight in Western PA but the tackifier held!!!! No peat moss and seed washed up at the bottom. I'll definitely be using that again next year.
> 
> 
> 
> Good to hear. I just went thru your picks and saw the little man helping. That's awesome. My son is 4 and is all about "lawning".
Click to expand...

Yeah it's pretty cool. He is all about helping and I gave him a few bucks at the end of the day. He couldn't believe it


----------



## pennstater2005

EH Griffiths had sent seed that was not as described. Not bad as it just had another KBG variety that wasn't listed, NuGlade.

Anyway, I did complain and the president emailed me letting me know he would send me a Toro hat and $10. I'll take it. I was pleased overall with their level of service and selection.


----------



## Pete1313

Nice!


----------



## ericgautier

That's awesome.


----------



## wardconnor

Any baby grass seedlings or germination?


----------



## pennstater2005

wardconnor said:


> Any baby grass seedlings or germination?


Nothing yet. It's been three days since seed down. I'm expecting some PRG shortly though!


----------



## Roosterchest

pennstater2005 said:


> wardconnor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any baby grass seedlings or germination?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing yet. It's been three days since seed down. I'm expecting some PRG shortly though!
Click to expand...

I planted some Pangea GLR rye recently and I could see sprouts on day 7. They are now on day 10 and growing rapidly. Once PRG pops, it pops.


----------



## pennstater2005

Roosterchest said:


> Once PRG pops, it pops.


Ain't that the truth! That's why I originally planted the 5 way PRG in the backyard. But I wanted some KBG for filling in the occasional bare spots.


----------



## pennstater2005

Woke up this morning and just had a feeling!


----------



## Pete1313

Woohoo!! :banana:


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> Woohoo!! :banana:


I expect an explosion tomorrow!!!


----------



## Roosterchest

Nice! Right on schedule. You can tell the PRG by the red at the base. KBG will also sprout in about 6-8 days. Of course it doesn't do much for 3 weeks. Tortoise and the hare!

Good work.


----------



## ericgautier

pennstater2005 said:


> Woke up this morning and just had a feeling!


Congrats on the green babies! :mrgreen:


----------



## pennstater2005

Roosterchest said:


> Nice! Right on schedule. You can tell the PRG by the red at the base. KBG will also sprout in about 6-8 days. Of course it doesn't do much for 3 weeks. Tortoise and the hare!
> 
> Good work.


Thanks!



ericgautier said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Woke up this morning and just had a feeling!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on the green babies! :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Appreciate it! Hoping to see a few more tomorrow


----------



## pennstater2005

Slowly coming in....


----------



## Pete1313

Beautiful seedbed! The babies are waking up!


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> Beautiful seedbed! The babies are waking up!


Thanks! I'm pretty excited 😁


----------



## pennstater2005

Bit of a wash out today.


----------



## Fronta1

pennstater2005 said:


> Bit of a wash out today.


Penn, very curious to know how the m-binder performed. Thanks, man.


----------



## pennstater2005

Fronta1 said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bit of a wash out today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penn, very curious to know how the m-binder performed. Thanks, man.
Click to expand...

I'll say this. The majority of the seed and mulch were held in place. It was a very heavy rainfall. Only a very small portion of the seed/mulch washed down and it didn't make it very far. I expect I'll spend maybe 20-30 minutes to repair the areas were the water hit it the hardest. Overall, I was very pleased with it. It's hard to tell in the pictures but there is a slope, albeit fairly gentle, to that whole area...as a matter of fact my whole backyard.


----------



## Pete1313

It still looks good to me!


----------



## Fronta1

pennstater2005 said:


> Fronta1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bit of a wash out today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penn, very curious to know how the m-binder performed. Thanks, man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'll say this. The majority of the seed and mulch were held in place. It was a very heavy rainfall. Only a very small portion of the seed/mulch washed down and it didn't make it very far. I expect I'll spend maybe 20-30 minutes to repair the areas were the water hit it the hardest. Overall, I was very pleased with it. It's hard to tell in the pictures but there is a slope, albeit fairly gentle, to that whole area...as a matter of fact my whole backyard.
Click to expand...

Good news. Ok, thanks.


----------



## pennstater2005

Fixed the wash out areas in the reno. I was surprised there was a little more than I thought. It still only took about 30-40 minutes to complete.

Mostly dry forecast for the next week &#128591;


----------



## pennstater2005

Grass progress thus far.....

Day 1



Day 10


----------



## Pete1313

You are going to be mowing in no time! :thumbsup:


----------



## RockyMtnLawnNut

Looking good!


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> You are going to be mowing in no time! :thumbsup:


I'm too scared to mow :lol:



RockyMtnLawnNut said:


> Looking good!


Thanks! It's all about the watering now


----------



## pennstater2005

Day 12


----------



## Pete1313

You are getting close to the first trim! So jealous! Nice work! :thumbsup:


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> You are getting close to the first trim! So jealous! Nice work! :thumbsup:


Thanks! How do I know about when the first cut is? There are still quite a few areas that have nothing or tiny sprouts. Mostly the areas I had to re seed.


----------



## Pete1313

What height do you plan on cutting at for the first cut?


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> What height do you plan on cutting at for the first cut?


Not sure. I've never cut a reno before. Maybe 2-3"?


----------



## Pete1313

I would set your mower to cut at 2" and mow when the majority of the early sprouts reach 3" tall. Skip any morning watering the day of the mow, let it dry a bit, mow in the afternoon, and water after. Don't worry if some of the sprouts are not ready for cut or just starting out. They will be ok and the trim is needed to get the more mature sprouts going as well as keep them from shading out the smaller seedlings. I would then keep mowing at 2" to help it establish.


----------



## pennstater2005

Okay. Sounds like a good plan. Especially considering I didn't really have one &#128513; I'll probably push mow to start.


----------



## pennstater2005

Two weeks today





I know it's premature but some of the more bare areas are making me nervous.


----------



## Roosterchest

Looks good. Remember the jump Pete's made between 2-3 weeks.


----------



## g-man

Also remember you have kbg in there and it will spread. Resist the urge to drop more seeds.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> Also remember you have kbg in there and it will spread. Resist the urge to drop more seeds.


I won't drop more seed. I do have a few areas that I must have missed from a little washout. Those I need to get to but have been feeling lazy. Hopefully this weekend. I don't have much seed left so I have to be stingy.


----------



## Pete1313

It looks good to me! :thumbsup:



pennstater2005 said:


> I know it's premature but some of the more bare areas are making me nervous.


Your germination looks good. It will never be perfectly even. Also some seeds germinate later. I am still seeing new germination on day 24. There is KBG in there and it will do its thing and fill in. The magic will start happening when you can mow it and start spoon feeding it. But have patience and don't force it. Best thing you can do now is have a drink! :beer:


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> It looks good to me! :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know it's premature but some of the more bare areas are making me nervous.
> 
> 
> 
> Your germination looks good. It will never be perfectly even. Also some seeds germinate later. I am still seeing new germination on day 24. There is KBG in there and it will do its thing and fill in. The magic will start happening when you can mow it and start spoon feeding it. But have patience and don't force it. Best thing you can do now is have a drink! :beer:
Click to expand...

Good advice as usual Pete. First mow should be this weekend. Do you mean spoon feeding urea? I'm not sure when or how that is done.


----------



## g-man

Have you started any pots? It is nice to start a few small pots that you could use as sod for trouble spots.


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> Good advice as usual Pete. First mow should be this weekend. Do you mean spoon feeding urea? I'm not sure when or how that is done.


 not necessarily urea, just small frequent doses of N. Try and aim to put down 1 lb of N/k a month. Fast release weekly doses of urea would work well at .25lbs of N/k, or you could use starter fertilizer in bi-weekly apps of .5lbs of N/k, it is also still warm enough to use milo. I would wait another week before fertilizer to try and let the KBG establish some more first. Stop N apps at average first frost date and then one final N app when all topgrowth stops for the year.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Looking good! I now know what the "worry" part in "water, wait and worry" is. Your bare spots will do just fine.


----------



## social port

I see some nice color coming in on those little babies. Looks like you have a great batch. Can't wait to see where you are at in a couple of weeks.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> Have you started any pots? It is nice to start a few small pots that you could use as sod for trouble spots.


No, never thought about that but I have enough seed for that. I think I'm going to try it.



Pete1313 said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1504059217[/url] user_id=417]
> Good advice as usual Pete. First mow should be this weekend. Do you mean spoon feeding urea? I'm not sure when or how that is done.
> 
> 
> 
> not necessarily urea, just small frequent doses of N. Try and aim to put down 1 lb of N/k a month. Fast release weekly doses of urea would work well at .25lbs of N/k, or you could use starter fertilizer in bi-weekly apps of .5lbs of N/k, it is also still warm enough to use milo. I would wait another week before fertilizer to try and let the KBG establish some more first. Stop N apps at average first frost date and then one final N app when all topgrowth stops for the year.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the detailed response. I have the starter fertilizer already so I'll use that or the urea I have as well.



Colonel K0rn said:


> Looking good! I now know what the "worry" part in "water, wait and worry" is. Your bare spots will do just fine.


Thanks Colonel!



social port said:


> I see some nice color coming in on those little babies. Looks like you have a great batch. Can't wait to see where you are at in a couple of weeks.


It's definitely still filling in. I know patience is key and hopefully at a month it's really trucking along.


----------



## ericgautier

FWIW, I did my first spoon feeding at 10 days after first sprouts. I dropped .33lbs/k of Urea.


----------



## pennstater2005

ericgautier said:


> FWIW, I did my first spoon feeding at 10 days after first sprouts. I dropped .33lbs/k of Urea.


I've got lots of urea and starter fertilizer now. Just not sure which one to use. Probably doesn't make that big of a difference.


----------



## monty

Pete1313 said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good advice as usual Pete. First mow should be this weekend. Do you mean spoon feeding urea? I'm not sure when or how that is done.
> 
> 
> 
> not necessarily urea, just small frequent doses of N. Try and aim to put down 1 lb of N/k a month. Fast release weekly doses of urea would work well at .25lbs of N/k, or you could use starter fertilizer in bi-weekly apps of .5lbs of N/k, it is also still warm enough to use milo. I would wait another week before fertilizer to try and let the KBG establish some more first. Stop N apps at average first frost date and then one final N app when all topgrowth stops for the year.
Click to expand...

Is it ok to continue using starter fert even if you don't need the phosphorus?


----------



## ken-n-nancy

monty said:


> Is it ok to continue using starter fert even if you don't need the phosphorus?


Depends upon what you mean by "ok."

High phosphorus levels do not generally have an adverse effect upon turf.

Excess phosphorus fertilization which ends up running off from the soil is harmful to the water quality of ponds, lakes, and streams.

Various states and municipalities have laws regulating phosphorus fertilizer application. Depending upon the details of the application timing and your location, phosphorus fertilization may not be legal in your circumstance.


----------



## monty

ken-n-nancy said:


> monty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it ok to continue using starter fert even if you don't need the phosphorus?
> 
> 
> 
> Depends upon what you mean by "ok."
> 
> High phosphorus levels do not generally have an adverse effect upon turf.
> 
> Excess phosphorus fertilization which ends up running off from the soil is harmful to the water quality of ponds, lakes, and streams.
> 
> Various states and municipalities have laws regulating phosphorus fertilizer application. Depending upon the details of the application timing and your location, phosphorus fertilization may not be legal in your circumstance.
Click to expand...

So if I did .5lb/k every other week of starter fert i should not be a concerned with runoff, and if there are no laws preventing applying then this would be an ok way to spoon feed nitrogen to my new grass? After sprout and pout of course.


----------



## Pete1313

monty said:


> Is it ok to continue using starter fert even if you don't need the phosphorus?


If you don't need phosphorus then using only Nitrogen would be a better option.


----------



## pennstater2005

First mow!!!


----------



## RockyMtnLawnNut

Looking great! Cool to see you have the little guy out helping you. I used to love to help mow when I was a kid. Maybe you'll turn him into a lawn junkie too.


----------



## wardconnor

That is always a good day


----------



## pennstater2005

RockyMtnLawnNut said:


> Looking great! Cool to see you have the little guy out helping you. I used to love to help mow when I was a kid. Maybe you'll turn him into a lawn junkie too.


It's funny, my kids fight over spreading Milorganite. One pushes the little Scott's Mini and the other grabs handfuls and just throws it around  Then they switch :thumbup:


wardconnor said:


> That is always a good day


It was. Felt weird mowing it but it needed it because some sprouts were every bit of 3" already. A little fertilizer next week should be in order.


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> First mow!!!


You gave me a 10 day head start and still beat me to the first mow! Looks nice! :thumbsup: what was your HOC? 2 inches?


----------



## pennstater2005

Thanks Pete! Yeah I mowed at two inches. I wouldn't be mowing anything yet if not for that PRG!!


----------



## pennstater2005

22 days



And the rest of the yard awaiting renovation 😁


----------



## Pete1313

That is looking great!


----------



## Budstl

Looking good


----------



## pennstater2005

Thanks all. Light urea app this weekend along with a second mowing.


----------



## Sinclair

pennstater2005 said:


> Thanks all. Light urea app this weekend along with a second mowing.


That would put your urea app at ~4 weeks after seed down?


----------



## pennstater2005

Sinclair said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks all. Light urea app this weekend along with a second mowing.
> 
> 
> 
> That would put your urea app at ~4 weeks after seed down?
Click to expand...

Yes. Light meaning, per Pete1313's recommendations, .25lb/1K.


----------



## Sinclair

pennstater2005 said:


> Sinclair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks all. Light urea app this weekend along with a second mowing.
> 
> 
> 
> That would put your urea app at ~4 weeks after seed down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. Light meaning, per Pete1313's recommendations, .25lb/1K.
Click to expand...

Thanks. :thumbup:


----------



## ericgautier

pennstater2005 said:


> Yes. Light meaning, per Pete1313's recommendations, .25lb/1K.


 :thumbup: feed those babies.


----------



## pennstater2005

ericgautier said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Light meaning, per Pete1313's recommendations, .25lb/1K.
> 
> 
> 
> :thumbup: feed those babies.
Click to expand...

I can't wait!!!.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Looks nice! From the photo it looks like it's making a case for being the best part of the back lawn...


----------



## pennstater2005

ken-n-nancy said:


> Looks nice! From the photo it looks like it's making a case for being the best part of the back lawn...


Thanks! Yeah, the rest of the yard will be renovated next year or over the next two years. It'll green up more in the fall but it's still a giant mess :roll:


----------



## pennstater2005

Mow then light dose of urea followed by water. Should I be worried about the spots that aren't filing in. Wouldn't all the PRG have came in by now?


----------



## pennstater2005

Lightly raked out the more bare areas and then added seed. I thought about doing more spots but opted to stick with the ones that had virtually no grass yet. The others will fill in.


----------



## pennstater2005

Watering is down to twice a day now. I've started the fall nitrogen weekly apps and am excited to see the progress in a few weeks. Can hardly wait for next year's reno!


----------



## pennstater2005

Day 28


----------



## Roosterchest

Dude, sweet work! Congrats! That is looking really good.


----------



## Pete1313

Agreed. That does look really good!


----------



## pennstater2005

Thanks guys. Gave it only it's second mow. Light urea app tomorrow. Really looking forward to next year when I know it will look even better.


----------



## monty

Looks awesome state!


----------



## Richard Slater

Looking great, you must be very proud of your babies.


----------



## pennstater2005

monty said:


> Looks awesome state!


Thanks Monty!



Richard Slater said:


> Looking great, you must be very proud of your babies.


I am and now I'm wishing I would've done a little more of the backyard!! I only did about a 1/5 of it as a trial.


----------



## pennstater2005

Day 6









Day 10









Day 14









Day 23









Day 29









Day 35









All in all a success so far. Can't wait to see it in another month!


----------



## g-man

^ one side done and ready for the other half of the backyard?

Good job.


----------



## J_nick

Looks good! I can't believe it's already been 35 days. Seems like it was just the other day you were out there with a weed burner trying to burn it all down.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> ^ one side done and ready for the other half of the backyard?
> 
> Good job.


Thanks! About 1/5th is the backyard is done. Got a lot of work left.


----------



## g-man

^ I think the sandals are the key to a successful Roundup application and a reno. :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

J_nick said:


> Looks good! I can't believe it's already been 35 days. Seems like it was just the other day you were out there with a weed burner trying to burn it all down.


Almost forgot about that. Ahhh...good times.



g-man said:


> ^ I think the sandals are the key to a successful Roundup application and a reno. :lol:


I think Colonel Korn called me out on that one! I'm always wearing sandals :lol:


----------



## Pete1313

I enjoy seeing the progression of photos. Nice! It is really filling in! :thumbsup:


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> I enjoy seeing the progression of photos. Nice! It is really filling in! :thumbsup:


Thanks Pete. What do you think the yellowing is in some places? Just immature grass?


----------



## Sinclair

Looking nice! :thumbup:

The stripes on day 29 sure are satisfying. :nod:


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I enjoy seeing the progression of photos. Nice! It is really filling in! :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Pete. What do you think the yellowing is in some places? Just immature grass?
Click to expand...

Tough to say. Did you do your post-m Tenacity yet? Maybe take some close ups


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I enjoy seeing the progression of photos. Nice! It is really filling in! :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Pete. What do you think the yellowing is in some places? Just immature grass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tough to say. Did you do your post-m Tenacity yet? Maybe take some close ups
Click to expand...

No post m tenacity yet. That's this weekend. I'll get some close ups.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I enjoy seeing the progression of photos. Nice! It is really filling in! :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Pete. What do you think the yellowing is in some places? Just immature grass?
Click to expand...

I'm wondering the same thing.
But it really looks nice. Witness to the thickness.


----------



## gregonfire

wow, looks great! Nice progress!


----------



## pennstater2005

Sinclair said:


> Looking nice! :thumbup:
> 
> The stripes on day 29 sure are satisfying. :nod:


Thanks! Hoping to get more of those tomorrow when I mow again :thumbup:



gregonfire said:


> wow, looks great! Nice progress!


Thanks Greg! Your renovation looks like it's coming along quite nicely.


----------



## pennstater2005

Hoping to get outside shortly here to get a close up picture of the lighter colored areas in the reno. I'm wondering if I over applied urea last week.


----------



## pennstater2005

Okay some pics of the yellowing that I'm seeing.



















Any thoughts?


----------



## ABC123

Possibly too much water? Blades could be sharpened.


----------



## pennstater2005

The water could be it I guess but I'm down to once every other day. And the blade is new.


----------



## Roosterchest

I think it's the Urea. I had this is in a small test plot I did. Not a water or blade issue in my opinion. Give it a week with no Urea and see what happens.


----------



## pennstater2005

Roosterchest said:


> I think it's the Urea. I had this is in a small test plot I did. Not a water or blade issue in my opinion. Give it a week with no Urea and see what happens.


I think you're right. Definitely skipping fertilizer this week. Anything else I could do?


----------



## Pete1313

How much urea have you put down so far?


----------



## Roosterchest

Mine just grew out in about a week. On the backyard reno I put down a second round of starter fert and some milorganite about 17 days after germination. The grass really responded to this. To me it's easier to not use Urea because of the watering--just a personal preference.


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> How much urea have you put down so far?


First week was .25lb/k and the second week I had to open up the spreader settings a bit more because it wasn't coming out right so I think more than the .25lb/k. I'm just hoping I didn't kill it.


----------



## Pete1313

.25lb/k of N or .25lb/k of urea? Either way, not knowing how much you applied in the second week I would agree to back off the fertilizer a bit and see if it gets better.


----------



## pennstater2005

.25lb/k of nitrogen. I'm holding off this week and just watching it. Thanks.


----------



## monty

Roosterchest said:


> Mine just grew out in about a week. On the backyard reno I put down a second round of starter fert and some milorganite about 17 days after germination. The grass really responded to this. To me it's easier to not use Urea because of the watering--just a personal preference.


How did you decide how much to put down for 2nd round of starter? .25lb/k N?


----------



## Roosterchest

monty said:


> Roosterchest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mine just grew out in about a week. On the backyard reno I put down a second round of starter fert and some milorganite about 17 days after germination. The grass really responded to this. To me it's easier to not use Urea because of the watering--just a personal preference.
> 
> 
> 
> How did you decide how much to put down for 2nd round of starter? .25lb/k N?
Click to expand...

Not super scientific to be honest. Used half a bag of 23-23-3 meant for 5,000 sq ft on about 4,000. Maybe it was coincidental but the yard exploded with growth 2-4 days after applying the second round of starter fert plus milorganite.

I have some bare/thin spots but it legitimately looks like a yard now.


----------



## pennstater2005

Will grass survive an over application of urea?


----------



## GrassDaddy

pennstater2005 said:


> Will grass survive an over application of urea?


Depends on by how much and if it was fast release/slow release and how much rain there was, and if the grass was wet before. So maybe ;-)


----------



## pennstater2005

GrassDaddy said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will grass survive an over application of urea?
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on by how much and if it was fast release/slow release and how much rain there was, and if the grass was wet before. So maybe ;-)
Click to expand...

46-0-0. It's yellowing. I've been watering a little extra. Some blades are dead for sure.


----------



## Pete1313

How much did you put down in the second app? Your reno is 2k sq ft, how many lbs of urea did you use? Did you apply it to wet or damp grass? How long did you wait to water it in? I'm not 100% sure it is from the urea unless it was over applied(like 3-4lbs of urea or more on 2k sq ft) or incorrectly applied.


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> How much did you put down in the second app? Your reno is 2k sq ft, how many lbs of urea did you use? Did you apply it to wet or damp grass? How long did you wait to water it in? I'm not 100% sure it is from the urea unless it was over applied(like 3-4lbs of urea or more on 2k sq ft) or incorrectly applied.


I honestly don't know. I was doing the whole yard I had a fair amount in the hopper. It wasn't spreading any urea so I opened it up more than normal. I walked faster as well to try and adjust. I know I spread more than the .25lb/k of N than I intended just not sure by how much. I'm hoping most of it makes it.


----------



## GrassDaddy

Was the grass wet when you applied? Did you water it in right after?


----------



## pennstater2005

Not wet when applied but it rained that night. I would say within a few hours.


----------



## Pete1313

I see. Best advice would be keep watering and have some patience. What spreader do you have? One with a single opening? Or a 3 hole earthway? Once it recovers and you decide to fertilize again, you can switch to ammonium sulfate 21-0-0 for quick release as it would be easier to apply, or try a hand held spreader with the urea, or go to a different fertilizer with some slow release.


----------



## GrassDaddy

OK hmm .25lb/k N shouldn't do that, I figure if the grass was wet and it stuck to the blades it might.


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> I see. Best advice would be keep watering and have some patience. What spreader do you have? One with a single opening? Or a 3 hole earthway? Once it recovers and you decide to fertilize again, you can switch to ammonium sulfate 21-0-0 for quick release as it would be easier to apply, or try a hand held spreader with the urea, or go to a different fertilizer with some slow release.


Three hole Earthway. I'll try the ammonium sulfate for the next application. Though that may be awhile now. Thanks.



GrassDaddy said:


> OK hmm .25lb/k N shouldn't do that, I figure if the grass was wet and it stuck to the blades it might.


I spread more than that by accident.


----------



## pennstater2005

I think the yellowing is starting to decrease. No fertilizer this week or next and not watering. Fingers crossed!!!


----------



## ericgautier

^ looking good!

Definitely measure out the Urea next time to be safe.


----------



## g-man

^ use a weight scale and get the weight right. Don't use a push spreader. Hand held is the way to go.

For 0.25N/M, that's 0.5lb of urea/M. That's like a cup of urea.


----------



## pennstater2005

ericgautier said:


> ^ looking good!
> 
> Definitely measure out the Urea next time to be safe.


Thanks! I'm going to buy a scale today.



g-man said:


> ^ use a weight scale and get the weight right. Don't use a push spreader. Hand held is the way to go.
> 
> For 0.25N/M, that's 0.5lb of urea/M. That's like a cup of urea.


Do you mean a handheld spreader?


----------



## g-man

I use this. I got it at Walmart during their season end clearance for $5. It is great for fall urea. I got it figured out to the point I don't have to weight the urea anymore. The only bad thing about it is that it gets stuck open and running if the prills block the opening. I normally tilt it back to let the gate close.

Scotts Wizz Hand-Held Spreader https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011HY5Q1K/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_BI9XzbZAF30RJ


----------



## pennstater2005

^ Thanks gman. Battery powered huh? I like it. Never thought about handheld before. I use to use them all the time when I did landscaping and excavating for a living.


----------



## pennstater2005

I'm also holding off on my post m application of Tenacity. Too scary &#128521;


----------



## pennstater2005

Here is the yard today. The yellowing areas are still present. I believe I over applied urea two weeks ago. I'm still hoping it grows out and fills in but who knows.










I'm wondering if I should go with some milo rather than urea soon. Or wait it out. Dunno.


----------



## pennstater2005

Any thoughts on what the yellowing might be? If it was urea burn I thought it would've grown out by now. Grubs, dollar spot?










Better pics tonight.


----------



## pennstater2005

Here's a sort of close up. Rust maybe? Fungus?


----------



## ABC123

Yeah I bet it's rust. Seen in a few spots myself.


----------



## vnephologist

+1 on the rust. I know it's easier to say at this point, but I definitely don't think it was urea over application. Whenever that has happened to me, there's a more mechanical pattern. Your pattern definitely looks more "natural."


----------



## g-man

Go to the kitchen and grab a white paper towel. Using the paper towel clean a a leaf. If you turn the white paper a red/gold color (rust).

If it is rust, I would treat it since it is a young lawn. I like this for rust. https://m.lowes.com/pd/Spectracide-Immunox-Multi-Purpose-16-oz-Garden-Fungicide/50220911

Also a *measured* spoon feeding of urea (0.20lb N/M) should help. Avoid late irrigation. Hose wash the mower in the street after doing that area since it spreads.


----------



## pennstater2005

ABC123 said:


> Yeah I bet it's rust. Seen in a few spots myself.


That's what I thought once I actually hand pulled and looked closer.



vnephologist said:


> +1 on the rust. I know it's easier to say at this point, but I definitely don't think it was urea over application. Whenever that has happened to me, there's a more mechanical pattern. Your pattern definitely looks more "natural."


I was hoping it wasn't a urea over application. I figured that after three weeks more of it would have actually started to brown and then die, and that has not been the case. I noticed the "orange" look today and decided to pull a bit.



g-man said:


> Go to the kitchen and grab a white paper towel. Using the paper towel clean a a leaf. If you turn the white paper a red/gold color (rust).
> 
> If it is rust, I would treat it since it is a young lawn. I like this for rust. https://m.lowes.com/pd/Spectracide-Immunox-Multi-Purpose-16-oz-Garden-Fungicide/50220911
> 
> Also a *measured* spoon feeding of urea (0.20lb N/M) should help. Avoid late irrigation. Hose wash the mower in the street after doing that area since it spreads.


Thanks g-man. I'm going to stop after work tomorrow and get the product you linked. Watering has been early morning and occasionally afternoon when it was really hot. I have not been washing the mower but will now. I will definitely measure out the urea this time and spread it with something other than the Earthway 2170. I've found it's not great at trying to spread such small, measured amounts. If I open it just a tiny bit for a small application, nothing comes out.

Thanks again all. Fingers crossed!


----------



## g-man

Check the store online inventory. It is that time of year that finding this stuff is hard (right when we need it). The ai is Myclobutanil


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> Check the store online inventory. It is that time of year that finding this stuff is hard (right when we need it). The ai is Myclobutanil


I checked and mine has 3 in stock. AI is listed as Myclobutanil. Thanks again!


----------



## vnephologist

If for whatever reason you can't find it, they may have this...

https://m.lowes.com/pd/BAYER-ADVANCED-Disease-Control-32-oz-Garden-Fungicide/3005265

AI, tebuconazole, is also a triazole like myclobutanil.


----------



## pennstater2005

vnephologist said:


> If for whatever reason you can't find it, they may have this...
> 
> https://m.lowes.com/pd/BAYER-ADVANCED-Disease-Control-32-oz-Garden-Fungicide/3005265
> 
> AI, tebuconazole, is also a triazole like myclobutanil.


Thanks for that link! My Lowe's actually has 9 of those in stock.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Man, the reno is looking very nice. Love the color, sans rust


----------



## pennstater2005

Colonel K0rn said:


> Man, the reno is looking very nice. Love the color, sans rust


Thanks Colonel! I'm getting used to the rusty color. Maybe it could be my thing :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

Got the fungicide. I went with the Bayer because it was twice as much product for only $4 more.


----------



## vnephologist

Didn't mean to steer you wrong, but you can't compare the two based on volume alone. Percentage of active ingredient matters. Since the retail bottles like this aren't usually labeled for turf use, I usually hit up domyownpest for the label of a comparable professional product and do the math. In this case Quali-Pro Tebuconazole 3.6F has 38% active and recommends 0.6oz/M. The Bayer only has 2.9% (check your label to be sure). So (38/2.9)*0.6 oz = 7.86 oz/M. I haven't done the same for the Myclobutanil, and other folks on here may want to confirm my methods and math, but you may want to compare.


----------



## pennstater2005

^
Thanks. I'll definitely check. The Bayer product got better and more reviews and some that were for turf grass diseases. This bottle will last awhile as it only takes 1.5 tablespoons per gallon of water. It's listed diseases it works on included leaf spot and rust both of which I wanted it for.

I don't think you steered me wrong. The AI in the product g-man linked was 1.55% Myclobutanil.


----------



## g-man

The product I linked has a lawn application rate in it. Either one i think it is good for rust. Do try to switch around the class of fungicide you use. Use a foliar application nozzle in your tank. I prefer to apply in the am after the dew has dried up (~10am) and no rain in forecast.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:



> The product I linked has a lawn application rate in it. Either one i think it is good for rust. Do try to switch around the class of fungicide you use. Use a foliar application nozzle in your tank. I prefer to apply in the am after the dew has dried up (~10am) and no rain in forecast.


What do you mean by class of fungicide?


----------



## g-man

Each fungicide has a classification per the mode of operation. In order to avoid the lawn to build resistance to one, it is good to switch to a different type/class. Think of it as antibiotics, that your doctor switches around.

Here is a table of classes (google has a ton of tables): https://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/SPEC/technical-bulletin/UMassfungicide_class_mode.pdf

And way more info (winter reading material): 
http://www.frac.info/resistance-overview


----------



## vnephologist

The FRAC poster is my personal favorite... http://www.frac.info/docs/default-s...arch-2017f19b282c512362eb9a1eff00004acf5d.pdf


----------



## LawnNerd

g-man said:


> And way more info (winter reading material):
> http://www.frac.info/resistance-overview


Wow, that's going to be a great read this winter, and i've already book marked this.



vnephologist said:


> The FRAC poster is my personal favorite... http://www.frac.info/docs/default-s...arch-2017f19b282c512362eb9a1eff00004acf5d.pdf


and now i'ts my personal favorite as well.


----------



## pennstater2005

How long before results are seen from a fungicide application?


----------



## pennstater2005

Second round of fungicide applied. The yellowing has decreased by a large amount. I think this might do the trick.

I'll have to read up on fungicides and learn about the different classes.


----------



## Pete1313

Good to hear that it is getting better!


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> Good to hear that it is getting better!


Thanks. I'll post a pic next week sometime to show the difference. This is giving me some hope. I was really thinking the renovation was a wash.


----------



## stotea

Unfortunately, my reno has the same problem. Tons of rust that I initially thought was mild fertilizer burn. Fungicide should arrive tomorrow.


----------



## pennstater2005

stotea said:


> Unfortunately, my reno has the same problem. Tons of rust that I initially thought was mild fertilizer burn. Fungicide should arrive tomorrow.


No fun. Mine is still coming out of it. Two apps so far. How bad is yours?


----------



## stotea

pennstater2005 said:


> No fun. Mine is still coming out of it. Two apps so far. How bad is yours?


I just got back from being away from home for a few days, and it looks quite a bit worse than before I left. Some areas are worse than others, but I'd estimate roughly half the reno area is affected. Pretty sure the 2.5" of rain we got at the beginning of October was the driving cause.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> stotea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, my reno has the same problem. Tons of rust that I initially thought was mild fertilizer burn. Fungicide should arrive tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> No fun. Mine is still coming out of it. Two apps so far. How bad is yours?
Click to expand...

This recovery process seems to be taking forever :sad:


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stotea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, my reno has the same problem. Tons of rust that I initially thought was mild fertilizer burn. Fungicide should arrive tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> No fun. Mine is still coming out of it. Two apps so far. How bad is yours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This recovery process seems to be taking forever :sad:
Click to expand...

It's better but still there. I think it's coming out of it on its own somewhat. Hope next year's reno goes better.


----------



## pennstater2005

Some views looking up to house.


----------



## social port

I would call it successful. It looks thick all over, and there is a nice, dark green in most places. I think it will really pop after those fungi leave.

Extra points for perseverance, I'd say. You starting glyph apps in July, right?

I love how you are already thinking about next year. I'm equally guilty.


----------



## social port

Also, you are totally winning the domination game with your neighbor.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> I would call it successful. It looks thick all over, and there is a nice, dark green in most places. I think it will really pop after those fungi leave.
> 
> Extra points for perseverance, I'd say. You starting glyph apps in July, right?
> 
> I love how you are already thinking about next year. I'm equally guilty.


The fungal issues have made me less excited for next year's renovation but it's happening anyway!

I'm just debating on finishing the whole backyard or in two more sections. For watering needs, without irrigation, the smaller area for the reno this year was very doable. Not sure I can convince the wife to move the sprinkler around six different places three times a day 

I would probably set up multiple sprinklers on timers if I go that route. I still have a side and front yard that need renovated as well!


----------



## social port

I hear ya 

If you do decide to go the route of a more elaborate sprinkler setup with timers, I had a lot of help in this thread. 
http://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1282


----------



## Pete1313

social port said:


> Also, you are totally winning the domination game with your neighbor.


That's the thing that stood out the most when I see the pics. You had some fungus, and things didn't go as planned.. They will all be a distant memory come next year once it is up and growing come spring, and you are smarter and better prepared for next year's reno because of it. I call it a success! :thumbsup:


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> I hear ya
> 
> If you do decide to go the route of a more elaborate sprinkler setup with timers, I had a lot of help in this thread.
> http://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1282


Thanks for the link.



Pete1313 said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1508894206[/url] user_id=337]
> Also, you are totally winning the domination game with your neighbor.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the thing that stood out the most when I see the pics. You had some fungus, and things didn't go as planned.. They will all be a distant memory come next year once it is up and growing come spring, and you are smarter and better prepared for next year's reno because of it. I call it a success! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Thanks Pete. The line looks nice but scares me! His creeping Charlie is really starting to creep my way :evil:


----------



## pennstater2005

The fungus free section of the lawn reno.


----------



## Pete1313

That is looking good! :thumbsup:


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> That is looking good! :thumbsup:


Thanks Pete. It took months to really thicken up.


----------



## social port

Man, that came in well! Looks good. That's KBG and PRG, right?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Man, that came in well! Looks good. That's KBG and PRG, right?


Yep and thanks! I only took a picture of a tiny little section because the rest is all fungified.


----------



## pennstater2005

Might as well get this rolling now. Yard is greening up quickly, at least when the snow melts enough so I can see it. I'm planning another partial renovation in the back right next to last years.


----------



## social port

:thumbup: here's to another season


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> :thumbup: here's to another season


 :beer:

Should be a doozy!


----------



## pennstater2005

I can still see the fungus from last year. I'm really hoping it grows out this year.

A link to last years reno thread

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=768


----------



## pennstater2005

I wish I had something to add to this. Might get out today and pick up some sticks just to start doing something. I'm going stir crazy inside! 50s and 60s projected here for the next week!


----------



## iowa jim

Better than being in Iowa. 8 inches on the ground and still snowing.


----------



## pennstater2005

iowa jim said:


> Better than being in Iowa. 8 inches on the ground and still snowing.


Okay you got me :shock:


----------



## social port

I spent the last few weeks of winter in the garage just making up stuff to do ("yeah, I really need to get out there to clean those baseboards"). I started the season out with a very tidy garage.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> I spent the last few weeks of winter in the garage just making up stuff to do ("yeah, I really need to get out there to clean those baseboards"). I started the season out with a very tidy garage.


That's where I'm at now. Cleaning the garage....just doing little things. It was too wet yesterday to put the cart behind the tractor and get all the sticks. Maybe later today. Still feels like winter here.


----------



## pennstater2005

I have enough areas in the back that need seed I may use Tenacity instead of prodiamine. Some fairly large areas where the leaf pile sat for the kids.

Maybe prodiamine over the reno from last year.


----------



## social port

Do you think there is any chance that the bare areas could be addressed by encouraging spreading? I wonder if Prodiamine inhibits spreading in KBG.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Do you think there is any chance that the bare areas could be addressed by encouraging spreading? I wonder if Prodiamine inhibits spreading in KBG.


Unfortunately, the bare areas are mostly all a 5 way PRG blend from a few years back. Only the reno has KBG for sure.


----------



## social port

Hang in there. You'll be mowing soon!


----------



## pennstater2005

@social port

Is that a sloth :lol: I had to google it 

That's about what it feels like though


----------



## social port

Looks like a bear to me, but IDK


----------



## pennstater2005

:blush:


----------



## pennstater2005

The grass is definitely green underneath the snow!


----------



## pennstater2005

A look out into the small renovation from last year. Hoping the fungus doesn't stick around.


----------



## pennstater2005

What's crazy is the locally sourced seed that I used for a small section in the front looks the best. It is a mix of KBG/PRG/FF. The back is a 50/50 mix of KBG/PRG and looks ok but got nabbed by fungus fairly quickly last year. A squirrel is digging golf ball sized divots in the backyard which is pi$$ing me off and I almost nailed him this morning with break barrel but the squeaky door scared him.

Time to remove the screen in the kitchen window :twisted:


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Time to remove the screen in the kitchen window


Make it happen, Captain.
I can't believe the fungus has been hanging around this long!


----------



## pennstater2005

Someone was asking on here where you spray out your empty herbicides and this is where I do mine at...it's a dead zone!










This is one of the biggest bare areas I have right now. I used the de thatching rake to clear all the debris here and at other points in the backyard. Then I'll seed and spray Tenacity next weekend.










And here, if you look closely, you can see orange flags along the border of last years small renovation. I sprayed propiconazole today. It's a bit of a mess but the KBG/PRG blend I got from E.H. Griffiths looks amazing where it's actually in right now.










Also sprayed glyphosate over a rather large patch of some weedy grass. I'll seed it next weekend as well.


----------



## pennstater2005

Here's another shot of the small reno from last year....upper part looks the best. Hoping the fungus grows out once I blast it with some milo in a few weeks.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Someone was asking on here where you spray out your empty herbicides and this is where I do mine at...it's a dead zone!


Yeah, that is a great question and is something that I have struggled with. It's kind of like choosing the one part of the lawn that you won't care about.

Man, the grass looks really good near your house.

For the parts of the lawn that are bare: Are those dips/low spots I see in those areas? It looks like the ground is uneven, but it is really difficult to tell via photos.


----------



## pennstater2005

@social port

Yeah the whole backyard, with the exception of the small reno, will need leveled before I start another renovation. It's actually bare in that picture from leaves I raked up and left for the kids! I new when I did it would kill the grass. Not sure how to do that next year.

I just sit on the deck and look at my small portion of nice grass!


----------



## pennstater2005

I generally don't use Milo until May but with the current state of last years Reno I wonder if I should get it down now?


----------



## social port

@pennstater2005 
Understand that I am not making any strong recommendations here: I am just throwing out some thoughts.

If it were me, I'd be looking to get that grass as strong and as healthy as possible before summer. I have always found a component of the LCN's old program for cool season grasses to be compelling: Use starter fertilizer for your first spring fertilization. In your case, that makes a lot of sense to me, because your lawn is still so young (or at least parts of it). I like the idea of pushing root growth right now.

So then, what of milorganite? Assuming that you have enough life stirring in your soil right now, you could throw a little Milo on top of the starter fert.

I might even consider split apps-a half-rate now, and then a half-rate in two weeks, after the temperature range warms a bit more.

Of course, one (of possible several) drawback of this plan is that some link spring nitrogen with later disease-an especially important consideration given your current fungus (and a very persistent one at that).

If there is a perfect answer, I don't know what it is. But this is the direction I would take it.


----------



## pennstater2005

@social port

That makes sense to me. I never thought of the starter fert. I have plenty left over. Phosphorus for some vigorous root growth couldn't hurt. I'll consider a small dose and see how it goes. Thanks!


----------



## pennstater2005

Higher up view..... It's raining so I put down 2.5# of starter fertilizer in the little reno.


----------



## pennstater2005

Got the seed and soil moist crystals for seeding bare spots next weekend.


----------



## pennstater2005

At what point would I know my renovation was only a partial sucess :crying:


----------



## pennstater2005

Here's the better section of the renovation from last fall...










And the rest...


----------



## social port

Top photo is looking good.
I'm a little confused though: Do both areas pictured have the 5 way PRG, or do these areas have KBG as well?


----------



## pennstater2005

Here's the front yard. It's awaiting renovation. I did glypho another area that was literally all weed grass.


----------



## g-man

What happen on the right side?


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> What happen on the right side?


That was all quack. I killed it and will seed soon.


----------



## pennstater2005

After the fertilizer and rain it seems to be slowly, very slowly, starting to fill in and thicken up.


----------



## Togo

@pennstater2005 it looks like it's greening up very nicely.


----------



## pennstater2005

Togo said:


> @pennstater2005 it looks like it's greening up very nicely.


Thanks!!! It took awhile.


----------



## social port

That looks like a substantial change in a short amount of time.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> That looks like a substantial change in a short amount of time.


I hit it with a very light app of starter fert at your recommendation. Then Milo just a few days ago which got watered in quickly with rain. To the right you can still see some yellowing but it looks like it's decreasing.

Oh, I also sprayed a fungicide.


----------



## pennstater2005

Got the big bare spots seeded and a little peat on top. We're expecting rain shortly so I'm holding off on watering today. Hoping it's not a downpour. It's a very vulnerable spot to water pooling in the yard.


----------



## social port

if you have any tackifier left (probably not), it might help prevent seeds from being carried away.

The peat looks good. I'm looking forward to seeing how this comes out.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> if you have any tackifier left (probably not), it might help prevent seeds from being carried away.
> 
> The peat looks good. I'm looking forward to seeing how this comes out.


Thanks. Unfortunately no tackifier. Chance of heavy rain tonight :evil:


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Chance of heavy rain tonight


Tent?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Top photo is looking good.
> I'm a little confused though: Do both areas pictured have the 5 way PRG, or do these areas have KBG as well?


I missed this somehow. The area in the picture is the renovation and it's a 50/50 KBG/PRG mix. The 5 way rye is most of the rest of the backyard not in the picture. It's due to slowly be renovated over the next few years.


----------



## pennstater2005

View from the upstairs bathroom. Reno area is slowly filling in and greening up. The area next to it, full of annua and triv, is next this fall!!


----------



## kolbasz

pennstater2005 said:


> View from the upstairs bathroom. Reno area is slowly filling in and greening up. The area next to it, full of annua and triv, is next this fall!!


I debate this. I did the front like this, started with 25% fall, 25% spring and then 50% fall. Was going to do 25, 25, but just went for it. In the back I should just do section for the next several years since I have no irrigation. just see how it works itself out


----------



## pennstater2005

kolbasz said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> View from the upstairs bathroom. Reno area is slowly filling in and greening up. The area next to it, full of annua and triv, is next this fall!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I debate this. I did the front like this, started with 25% fall, 25% spring and then 50% fall. Was going to do 25, 25, but just went for it. In the back I should just do section for the next several years since I have no irrigation. just see how it works itself out
Click to expand...

I don't have irrigation either. And with 15k of lawn and a water bill tied to sewage no plans for one either. So, small sections at a time (about 2500 sq ft) over the next few years. Even with the smaller sections it's plenty of work for me. It will be a work in progress for awhile!


----------



## kolbasz

I have about 6 in front, 7 in the back.

The only redlief I get is a summer watering plan, so the sewer does not rocket up with the water consumption. But it still jumps a little from normal.


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> View from the upstairs bathroom. Reno area is slowly filling in and greening up. The area next to it, full of annua and triv, is next this fall!!


That is looking good!


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> View from the upstairs bathroom. Reno area is slowly filling in and greening up. The area next to it, full of annua and triv, is next this fall!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is looking good!
Click to expand...

Thanks Pete. I think I'm just going to let it grow out a bit more and then feed it lightly once more before the summer heat kicks in.


----------



## jessehurlburt

social port said:


> if you have any tackifier left (probably not), it might help prevent seeds from being carried away.
> 
> The peat looks good. I'm looking forward to seeing how this comes out.


I used this straw with tackifer on a slope and it worked out well. An even coating is important.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/EZ-Straw-2-5-cu-ft-Brown-Mulch/1000139907?cm_mmc=SCE_PLA-_-LawnGarden-_-GrassSeed-_-1000139907:EZ_Straw&CAWELAID=&kpid=1000139907&CAGPSPN=pla&store_code=2910&k_clickID=59b506bb-3469-418c-b155-3d26912ec810&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuMrXBRC_ARIsALWZrIhHAM2Lf20VcbeUHKawfC7RY4YRSKTibu7vKxxyMyZEHYkVV7_NBj0aAvonEALw_wcB


----------



## pennstater2005

jessehurlburt said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> if you have any tackifier left (probably not), it might help prevent seeds from being carried away.
> 
> The peat looks good. I'm looking forward to seeing how this comes out.
> 
> 
> 
> I used this straw with tackifer on a slope and it worked out well. An even coating is important.
> 
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/EZ-Straw-2-5-cu-ft-Brown-Mulch/1000139907?cm_mmc=SCE_PLA-_-LawnGarden-_-GrassSeed-_-1000139907:EZ_Straw&CAWELAID=&kpid=1000139907&CAGPSPN=pla&store_code=2910&k_clickID=59b506bb-3469-418c-b155-3d26912ec810&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuMrXBRC_ARIsALWZrIhHAM2Lf20VcbeUHKawfC7RY4YRSKTibu7vKxxyMyZEHYkVV7_NBj0aAvonEALw_wcB
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up on that. They do sell that at my local Lowe's. I might use it. That would be expensive for large areas though.


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> Thanks Pete. I think I'm just going to let it grow out a bit more and then feed it lightly once more before the summer heat kicks in.


Definitely bounced back from the rust last year.


----------



## pennstater2005

Had a small wash out where I re seeded. Bought the EZ straw with tack recommended by @jessehurlburt.

Hopefully can get it down later today before it rains again. Bought extra seed for just this occasion!


----------



## pennstater2005

EZ straw with tack went down. It was easy to spread and didn't use much at all to cover the area.










If it works well I'd consider it in lieu of peat moss for this year's fall renovation. Maybe just add a little extra tackifier on top.


----------



## social port

The powder by itself is kind of tricky to spread. It gunk-ed up my hose-end sprayer.
For the second round of seeding, I spread the powder by hand. Wasteful, but it worked. 
I'm glad to know of an alternative.

Let's hope for better weather this time!

Your reno area is looking Greeeen.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> The powder by itself is kind of tricky to spread. It gunk-ed up my hose-end sprayer.
> For the second round of seeding, I spread the powder by hand. Wasteful, but it worked.
> I'm glad to know of an alternative.
> 
> Let's hope for better weather this time!
> 
> Your reno area is looking Greeeen.


Thanks! It's like three shades darker than everything else. I spread the tackifier with my Earthway last year. Had to bounce the wheels a bit to get it to all come out but it came down evenly.

Yeah the EZ straw I had never considered but it's finely shredded and spread easily and covered way more than I expected. I have well over half the bale left.


----------



## social port

I remember you saying something about inhaling most of the powder :lol:

Definitely interested in the hay. Did the bag mention being weed-free? Jesse might remember too? 
I have an (unfair) automatic association between straw and weed seeds.


----------



## social port

Oh, and yeah, the reno looks three shades darker, if not more! I really am looking forward to the final product (years, though it may take)


----------



## Budstl

pennstater2005 said:


> EZ straw with tack went down. It was easy to spread and didn't use much at all to cover the area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it works well I'd consider it in lieu of peat moss for this year's fall renovation. Maybe just add a little extra tackifier on top.


That stuff looks interesting. If this works well for ya, i may try it this fall. Good luck with the seed.


----------



## pennstater2005

@social port

The powder evenly lined my lungs. As far as the weed seed in the EZ straw who knows. I'll be the guinea pig! This area will get nuked eventually anyway.


----------



## pennstater2005

Budstl said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> EZ straw with tack went down. It was easy to spread and didn't use much at all to cover the area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it works well I'd consider it in lieu of peat moss for this year's fall renovation. Maybe just add a little extra tackifier on top.
> 
> 
> 
> That stuff looks interesting. If this works well for ya, i may try it this fall. Good luck with the seed.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'll let you know if the straw was full of weed seed. Or if I'm growing hay! It's only a very small area so good for a trial.


----------



## Budstl

pennstater2005 said:


> Budstl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> EZ straw with tack went down. It was easy to spread and didn't use much at all to cover the area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it works well I'd consider it in lieu of peat moss for this year's fall renovation. Maybe just add a little extra tackifier on top.
> 
> 
> 
> That stuff looks interesting. If this works well for ya, i may try it this fall. Good luck with the seed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks! I'll let you know if the straw was full of weed seed. Or if I'm growing hay! It's only a very small area so good for a trial.
Click to expand...

Ya i did read on there that it is processed wheat. I saw one review on tractor supply that said they had wheat and corn sprout.


----------



## pennstater2005

Plan for today is to go to the new Farm and Feed store I found to buy urea and a few other fertilizers. I don't think I'm going to use Milorganite this year. It's just not cost effective for a lawn of my size. I'm going to try and get that down as it's supposed to rain tonight and tomorrow.

I'm getting a list together to source my seed, tackifier, and the like for the fall renovation. Most of it is from similar sources as last year. The tackifier I'll buy on Amazon as they sell 25lbs for $47 and frees shipping. The seed will still come from E.H. Griffiths as I really like that 50/50 KBG/PRG blend. The cultivars are a bit different but still elite.

I'll have all the starter fertilizer from last year as well as soil moist crystals. Watering will be my biggest expense, unfortunately.


----------



## pennstater2005

Hit up the farm and feed store. My kind of place!










50# of urea for $13 and 50# of 5-10-10 for $9. Sweet! Going to try the 5-10-10 in place of Milo.










Was half expecting paper style bags but they were plastic so nice surprise.


----------



## g-man

Check the 5-10-10. It might be MOP. It works but not as nice to the lawn.

I would suggest getting AS too (21-0-0).


----------



## social port

@g-man I thought MOP was 0-0-60?


----------



## social port

@pennstater2005 sweet! Thanks for the pictures. Always cool to see farm/turf stores and different products.

I'm curious as to why you are planning a non-milo year. I haven't given my new lawn any milo yet either.


----------



## g-man

It is. The bags that are mixes (5-10-10, 6-24-24) that use urea plus MOP to create the blend. In the list of ingredients of the bag it would say muriate of potash or sulphate of potash.

Muriate is cheaper and that's why it is used so much.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> @pennstater2005 sweet! Thanks for the pictures. Always cool to see farm/turf stores and different products.
> 
> I'm curious as to why you are planning a non-milo year. I haven't given my new lawn any milo yet either.


Mainly because it's cost prohibitive for a lawn my size. Yeah, the store was cool and the guy let my son and I go in the back and see all the fertilizers.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> It is. The bags that are mixes (5-10-10, 6-24-24) that use urea plus MOP to create the blend. In the list of ingredients of the bag it would say muriate of potash or sulphate of potash.
> 
> Muriate is cheaper and that's why it is used so much.


Thanks for the heads up. What makes it not so nice to the lawn?

Here is the label on the back. Can I use it. I was just going to give it a light feeding.


----------



## g-man

Yes you can use it. It is just not ideal due to the salt index.

This might explain better. http://farmercommunity.incitecpivotfertilisers.com.au/Guides%20and%20Publications/Agronomic%20Insights/MOP%20vs%20SOP


----------



## ericgautier

@pennstater2005 looks like a cool place! :thumbsup:


----------



## pennstater2005

Put down the 5-10-10. The 50# bag gave me about .20 lbs Nitrogen/1000 sq ft. I only applied it over about 13k as I left the island alone as well as a portion of the side yard. Below is a picture looking up to the house of the reno from last year on the right.


----------



## pennstater2005

The 5-10-10 got watered in nicely from a nice, steady rain instead of an insane, hard downpour! The EZ straw has held good so far.


----------



## pennstater2005

Bit of a wash out this morning. I'll eventually need some topsoil buildup in this area. There was already some PRG coming up so I think it will make it.


----------



## jessehurlburt

social port said:


> I remember you saying something about inhaling most of the powder :lol:
> 
> Definitely interested in the hay. Did the bag mention being weed-free? Jesse might remember too?
> I have an (unfair) automatic association between straw and weed seeds.


Since it was marketed as straw and not hay, I thought I was safe. I did not check the back of the bag. Curious now though...


----------



## pennstater2005

The difference is really starting to show. The renovation is still a bit clumpy but filling in. The renovation this fall will extend down to the fire pit on the right. I've got a substantial jump in the middle of it to somehow cut down and level. I'm not looking forward to that.










This improved in just two days since I applied the 5-10-10 at .20lbs of nitrogen over approximately 13k.


----------



## g-man

Dominating your own yard. :lol:


----------



## Colonel K0rn

g-man said:


> Dominating your own yard. :lol:


 :lol: :lol: I was about to say the same thing. I got the same color response when I threw down urea on my lawn yesterday. Here's hoping I won't have a soggy mess for a week!


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> The difference is really starting to show. The renovation is still a bit clumpy but filling in. The renovation this fall will extend down to the fire pit on the right. I've got a substantial jump in the middle of it to somehow cut down and level. I'm not looking forward to that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This improved in just two days since I applied the 5-10-10 at .20lbs of nitrogen over approximately 13k.


Whoa. Now that is what I call dark green. That color is incredible!


----------



## social port

jessehurlburt said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> I remember you saying something about inhaling most of the powder :lol:
> 
> Definitely interested in the hay. Did the bag mention being weed-free? Jesse might remember too?
> I have an (unfair) automatic association between straw and weed seeds.
> 
> 
> 
> Since it was marketed as straw and not hay, I thought I was safe. I did not check the back of the bag. Curious now though...
Click to expand...

Probably nothing to worry about, Jesse. I'm probably just overly cautious about introducing weed seeds into the yard. I've got four bags of compost that have been hanging out in my garage for half a year because I'm worried that I'm going to get a little dallisgrass (or whatever) mixed in with the product. :?


----------



## pennstater2005

Dominating my own yard is about it! To be fair that was taken later in the evening but that's how it looked to my eye.

On a budget and without irrigation the small renovations are what I get. No way my wife would move that sprinkler 10 times or more every day sometimes twice! I wouldn't either 

Guess I'm on the 5-10 year lawn plan :lol:


----------



## g-man

No need to have the wife move hoses. This solves your problem: https://www.amazon.com/Melnor-4-Outlet-Functions-Independent-Individual/dp/B0748MN8V8

I would try to make a square or a shape that fits with your sprinklers heads for the next reno. A rectangle makes it harder.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> No need to have the wife move hoses. This solves your problem: https://www.amazon.com/Melnor-4-Outlet-Functions-Independent-Individual/dp/B0748MN8V8
> 
> I would try to make a square or a shape that fits with your sprinklers heads for the next reno. A rectangle makes it harder.


Thanks @g-man although being on a fairly tight lawn budget convincing the wife for every new thing is getting tougher :lol: With the small renovations I only have to move the current sprinkler once.


----------



## pennstater2005

I think the fungus has completely gone at this point.










Can't wait to start the next section. I'm loving the 50/50 KBG/PRG mix.


----------



## social port

:dancenana: 
I can't get over how green it is...eh...dark green.


----------



## MarkAguglia

pennstater2005 said:


> I think the fungus has completely gone at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait to start the next section. I'm loving the 50/50 KBG/PRG mix.


I'll trade you my grill for your lawn.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> :dancenana:
> I can't get over how green it is...eh...dark green.


Thanks! I think I'm out of the woods.



MarkAguglia said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1526596553[/url] user_id=417]
> I think the fungus has completely gone at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait to start the next section. I'm loving the 50/50 KBG/PRG mix.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll trade you my grill for your lawn.
Click to expand...

Deal but you gotta take the other crappy parts too!


----------



## pennstater2005

Any thoughts on Greenview seed accelerator in place of peat moss?

https://m.lowes.com/pd/Greenview-Seeding-Mulch-30-lb-600-sq-ft-1-3-1-Lawn-Starter/1000213095


----------



## ericgautier

pennstater2005 said:


> I think the fungus has completely gone at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait to start the next section. I'm loving the 50/50 KBG/PRG mix.


^ this looks really good! :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

Thanks @ericgautier!!

Can't wait to start on the next section!


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Any thoughts on Greenview seed accelerator in place of peat moss?
> 
> https://m.lowes.com/pd/Greenview-Seeding-Mulch-30-lb-600-sq-ft-1-3-1-Lawn-Starter/1000213095


I don't have any experience with it, but the LCN has some thoughts on this product. You want the 4 minute mark, and then he talks about it more towards the end.


----------



## Jaung

pennstater2005 said:


> Plan for today is to go to the new Farm and Feed store I found to buy urea and a few other fertilizers. I don't think I'm going to use Milorganite this year. It's just not cost effective for a lawn of my size. I'm going to try and get that down as it's supposed to rain tonight and tomorrow.
> 
> I'm getting a list together to source my seed, tackifier, and the like for the fall renovation. Most of it is from similar sources as last year. The tackifier I'll buy on Amazon as they sell 25lbs for $47 and frees shipping. The seed will still come from E.H. Griffiths as I really like that 50/50 KBG/PRG blend. The cultivars are a bit different but still elite.
> 
> I'll have all the starter fertilizer from last year as well as soil moist crystals. Watering will be my biggest expense, unfortunately.


Hi, 
I am a new home owner from Penn state. Do you custom mix seeds from E.H. Griffiths or just get *** and PRG separately and spread twice on the lawn? I am planning to overseeding this fall and after I saw your post, I went to E.H. Griffiths to check them out. I am thinking of getting "Best Of The Blues" ( 100% ***) or "Deluxe Fairway" ( 60KGB: 40PRG). Thanks,


----------



## pennstater2005

Jaung said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plan for today is to go to the new Farm and Feed store I found to buy urea and a few other fertilizers. I don't think I'm going to use Milorganite this year. It's just not cost effective for a lawn of my size. I'm going to try and get that down as it's supposed to rain tonight and tomorrow.
> 
> I'm getting a list together to source my seed, tackifier, and the like for the fall renovation. Most of it is from similar sources as last year. The tackifier I'll buy on Amazon as they sell 25lbs for $47 and frees shipping. The seed will still come from E.H. Griffiths as I really like that 50/50 KBG/PRG blend. The cultivars are a bit different but still elite.
> 
> I'll have all the starter fertilizer from last year as well as soil moist crystals. Watering will be my biggest expense, unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> I am a new home owner from Penn state. Do you custom mix seeds from E.H. Griffiths or just get *** and PRG separately and spread twice on the lawn? I am planning to overseeding this fall and after I saw your post, I went to E.H. Griffiths to check them out. I am thinking of getting "Best Of The Blues" ( 100% ***) or "Deluxe Fairway" ( 60KGB: 40PRG). Thanks,
Click to expand...

Either of those would be excellent choices. I ordered this mix http://catalog.ehgriffith.com/info.php/cPath/80_1176/products_id/2457.

It consisted of these cultivars:

*16.66% Rugby II Kentucky Bluegrass
16.66% Midnight Kentucky Bluegrass
16.66% Everest Kentucky Bluegrass
16.66% Revenge GLX Perennial Ryegrass
16.66% Amazing A+ Perennial Ryegrass 
16.66% Fastball RGL Perennial Ryegrass*

This is their E Plus mix. They get their grass from the Oliger Seed Co. out of Akron, Ohio. Once you make an account with EH Griffith the price is not $23 for five pounds it is $21. Be aware there is a small amount of weed and crop content in the E plus mix. I personally did not end up with crazy weed pressure this spring. Some here wouldn't buy seed with any weed or crop seed listed but you pay a premium for that.

Welcome to TLF and glad to see another Pennsylvanian!!!! How was the store? It's about 85 miles from me and I've only had stuff shipped to me.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on Greenview seed accelerator in place of peat moss?
> 
> https://m.lowes.com/pd/Greenview-Seeding-Mulch-30-lb-600-sq-ft-1-3-1-Lawn-Starter/1000213095
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have any experience with it, but the LCN has some thoughts on this product. You want the 4 minute mark, and then he talks about it more towards the end.
Click to expand...

Interesting. He says to put it on thin or it will choke out seed. I'm not sure I believe that. Either way I think I'm going to try it and still apply tackifier on top. I wonder if the seeding mulch holds enough moisture that I wouldn't need the soil moist seed coat. (EH Griffiths has the actual seed coating for $8 and not the crystals which I got last year that are intended for planters and such)


----------



## Jaung

@ pennstater2005
Thanks for the information. It is really helpful. Before I saw your post, I was thinking of getting lesco tall fescue select seed blend from Site One. Now I have two local options. EH Griffith store looks quite popular with the professional landscapers. I prefer EH Griffith to Site One here.

You also get a good pricing on urea. I paid about $17 but it is still a good deal.

I also have to get 11-52-0 because my soil test result came back low on phosphate.


----------



## pennstater2005

Jaung said:


> @ pennstater2005
> Thanks for the information. It is really helpful. Before I saw your post, I was thinking of getting lesco tall fescue select seed blend from Site One. Now I have two local options. EH Griffith store looks quite popular with the professional landscapers. I prefer EH Griffith to Site One here.
> 
> You also get a good pricing on urea. I paid about $17 but it is still a good deal.
> 
> I also have to get 11-52-0 because my soil test result came back low on phosphate.


$17 for urea is a good price. What seed are you leaning towards? Is the seed for a renovation or over seed?


----------



## pennstater2005

Got down 50# of cracked corn and 50# of alfalfa pellets. Then the rains came....perfect timing! Kids all helped.










And the girls helping get the last of the alfalfa pellets out of the hopper.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on Greenview seed accelerator in place of peat moss?
> 
> https://m.lowes.com/pd/Greenview-Seeding-Mulch-30-lb-600-sq-ft-1-3-1-Lawn-Starter/1000213095
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have any experience with it, but the LCN has some thoughts on this product. You want the 4 minute mark, and then he talks about it more towards the end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting. He says to put it on thin or it will choke out seed. I'm not sure I believe that. Either way I think I'm going to try it and still apply tackifier on top. I wonder if the seeding mulch holds enough moisture that I wouldn't need the soil moist seed coat. (EH Griffiths has the actual seed coating for $8 and not the crystals which I got last year that are intended for planters and such)
Click to expand...

It is hard to weight what LCN says regarding its purpose. From the way that he discusses the product, it sounds like he considers the mulch most effective for holding seed in place; moisture retention is an added benefit, but not the primary function.
Does the product label give clear guidance? 
Obviously I am just making some well-intentioned deductions here, but based on how I interpret LCN, If you use the mulch, skip the tack, lightly apply the mulch, and throw a light layer of peat on top.


----------



## pennstater2005

@social port

I was trying to skip the peat moss. Maybe that's not such a good idea. I've got a lot to consider I guess.


----------



## social port

I just read over the product info and advertisement info. It is marketed to retain moisture and help prevent seeds from being washed away.
I think you were on the right track, despite what LCN emphasized.


----------



## Jaung

pennstater2005 said:


> $17 for urea is a good price. What seed are you leaning towards? Is the seed for a renovation or over seed?


I am thinking of getting "Best Of The Blues"  for most of the areas but I have two maple trees ( ~30 ft). For the shaded areas, I am leaning toward "Griffith D-Mix Grass Seed" . I will do core aeration followed by overseeding. I got a quote ( $200) for both overseeding and core aeration but I am not sure about the quality of seed. I may have to spend more than $200 just for the good seed.


----------



## pennstater2005

Picture taken a few minutes ago. It's looking good. One more round of 5-10-10 then I'm all done until the next renovation in the fall.


----------



## social port

This is looking great!
Green and healthy.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> This is looking great!
> Green and healthy.


It's amazing how actual grass stripes and weeds do not


----------



## Sinclair

pennstater2005 said:


> Picture taken a few minutes ago. It's looking good. One more round of 5-10-10 then I'm all done until the next renovation in the fall.


You're going blue too! 😎


----------



## pennstater2005

Sinclair said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Picture taken a few minutes ago. It's looking good. One more round of 5-10-10 then I'm all done until the next renovation in the fall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're going blue too! 😎
Click to expand...

Absolutely!


----------



## ericgautier

pennstater2005 said:


> Picture taken a few minutes ago. It's looking good. One more round of 5-10-10 then I'm all done until the next renovation in the fall.


Nice! :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

ericgautier said:



> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Picture taken a few minutes ago. It's looking good. One more round of 5-10-10 then I'm all done until the next renovation in the fall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Thanks Eric! Can't wait to get more of the yard looking like that.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Looks great :thumbsup:


----------



## pennstater2005

Colonel K0rn said:


> Looks great :thumbsup:


Thanks Colonel!


----------



## pennstater2005

Got the 5-10-10 down tonight. It will be my last fertilization until Fall. I plan on spraying a fungicide over the reno from last year as I'm noticing a few brown patch spots here and there. I'll also spot spray some 2,4D and triclopyr this weekend to catch some stuff that's getting a bit out of control.

Sooner than later I hope to get down to E.H. Griffiths in Pittsburgh to get the seed, seed soil moist coating, and probably a fall granular pre m. I'm excited to actually see the store and what they have.

I hate spending money on the parts of the yard that I know I'm going to eventually kill :evil:


----------



## pennstater2005

Sprayed tebuconazole over entire renovation from last year and spot sprayed a few brown patch spots.

Then spot sprayed triclopyr with spreader sticker and blue dye.

If the rain holds off tomorrow I'll spot spray WBG. Need to mow but have to wait now.


----------



## pennstater2005

Took this today early morning. Notice the little poa explosion near the mulch bed.


----------



## jessehurlburt

thickening and darkening nicely! Dominating the neighbors as well. Another reno this fall?


----------



## social port

Dang, Pennstater, that POA seemed to come suddenly from nowhere.


----------



## pennstater2005

jessehurlburt said:


> thickening and darkening nicely! Dominating the neighbors as well. Another reno this fall?


Thanks! And yes another renovation middle section of backyard. That might be hard keeping the kids off of 



social port said:


> Dang, Pennstater, that POA seemed to come suddenly from nowhere.


Mini poa explosion I guess. Tenacity should knock it around a bit.


----------



## g-man

^ I would have pull it instead tenacity.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> ^ I would have pull it instead tenacity.


Do you think the KBG would fill in if I hand pull all of that?


----------



## g-man

Yes. But my comment is more around control of the poa a. Tenacity will take some applocations, vs you have it all in one spot. Grab a trash bag and go pull it. You will be done in 15min.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> Yes. But my comment is more around control of the poa a. Tenacity will take some applocations, vs you have it all in one spot. Grab a trash bag and go pull it. You will be done in 15min.


I'm gonna try it tonight. I could pro plug the area I suppose depending on how bare it gets.


----------



## pennstater2005

Front yard as of this morning. It's bad. And unbelievably unlevel. But I try not to spend any money on that part of the yard. I did spread a little 5-10-10 and spot sprayed some weeds.


----------



## social port

Any plans to spread a little sand this year?
I'm planning to use some dirt unearthed from my lawn this spring to take care of areas that aren't smooth. I'll probably also be using sand at some point.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Any plans to spread a little sand this year?
> I'm planning to use some dirt unearthed from my lawn this spring to take care of areas that aren't smooth. I'll probably also be using sand at some point.


I think the low spots in the yard are way too low for sand. I'm taking like over six inches. I think I need topsoil. It's a rough ride for the tractor!


----------



## pennstater2005

Wife took this tonight. Neighbors making me look good.


----------



## pennstater2005

Took this tonight to show all the poa annua and bits of triv in the section right next to last year's renovation.

Can't wait to destroy it all :twisted:


----------



## ericgautier

@pennstater2005 what a difference. :thumbsup:


----------



## pennstater2005

ericgautier said:


> @pennstater2005 what a difference. :thumbsup:


Thanks EG! Less than a month until I start torching it :thumbup:


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> ericgautier said:
> 
> 
> 
> @pennstater2005 what a difference. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks EG! Less than a month until I start torching it :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Does that mean, then, that we are nearly at the start of...renovation season  ?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ericgautier said:
> 
> 
> 
> @pennstater2005 what a difference. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks EG! Less than a month until I start torching it :thumbup:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does that mean, then, that we are nearly at the start of...renovation season  ?
Click to expand...

I guess it does!!!


----------



## pennstater2005

Ok @Ware that was insanely fast :lol:


----------



## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> Sprayed tebuconazole over entire renovation from last year and spot sprayed a few brown patch spots.


Never heard of that one. How is it different from Propiconazole?


----------



## pennstater2005

Green said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sprayed tebuconazole over entire renovation from last year and spot sprayed a few brown patch spots.
> 
> 
> 
> Never heard of that one. How is it different from Propiconazole?
Click to expand...

Sorry Green...somehow missed this. It's in the same triazole fungicide class as tebuconazole. I believe there are 9 fungicides in thst class. Those are the two most commercially available I can find (big box stores) and I just rotated them as the grass can become resistant to them rather easily.

I don't know much about the other fungicide classes. This article is a bit outdated but informative.

http://www.apsnet.org/publications/apsnetfeatures/Pages/Fungicides.aspx

I've only applied fungicide three times total. I'm trying to avoid them as much as possible due to some of them having documented resistance and also with a yard my size they're not exactly cost effective.


----------



## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> I've only applied fungicide three times total. I'm trying to avoid them as much as possible due to some of them having documented resistance and also with a yard my size they're not exactly cost effective.


Me, too. I can still count on one hand the number apps I've ever done.


----------



## pennstater2005

Well, I won't be able to do another section of the backyard this year  Two reasons. A bathroom remodel that turned into more than expected and I still don't have a good solution for irrigation and as my sewage is tied to my water bill it's gets exorbitantly expensive!

So, the plan will be to keep the small reno from last year in good shape and have good weed suppression plans in place for the rest. Then, I need to figure out the irrigation situation.

Options there are two fold: 1. I can either drill my own well and I've been in contact with Jody from Emergency Water Well and they have a DIY kit that can be used in conjunction with a pump to pressurize for irrigation purposes. 2. Have a local company drill an irrigation well for me. I checked and found no local ordinances against this. I'm too afraid to call because I think they might make a new ordinance...they're funny that way.

I might do one small area that is literally all poa annua and creeping bentgrass. To be seen........

Edited to add: Emergency Water Well DIY website....pretty cool stuff......

https://emergencywaterwell.com

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uOhwebOEF2E


----------



## social port

That stinks, Man. What's fall without a reno?

So, is the long-term plan to install a sprinkler system?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> That stinks, Man. What's fall without a reno?
> 
> So, is the long-term plan to install a sprinkler system?


I wish. Until I can find a different source of water other than from the borough I'm out of luck. I will try the above at some point....the DIY well or have an irrigation well dug for me by a local company. I would prefer the latter as digging it myself sounds terrible :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

I also might use this as an opportunity to begin some leveling to the back and front using a topsoil/mulch/sand mix (aka cheap topsoil in the bag )


----------



## social port

He is all about fescue, but GCI Turf (Prof. Pete) of youtube land has several videos on installing a system connected to a well. It's a nice set of videos. I dream about a set-up like that. 
I believe that he had his well installed.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> He is all about fescue, but GCI Turf (Prof. Pete) of youtube land has several videos on installing a system connected to a well. It's a nice set of videos. I dream about a set-up like that.
> I believe that he had his well installed.


Thanks. I'll check those out. If I ever do anything with an irrigation well I'll be sure to post it! Can't wait for that day. Sick and tired of paying sewage fees for water not treated :evil:


----------



## bellts02

pennstater2005 said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is all about fescue, but GCI Turf (Prof. Pete) of youtube land has several videos on installing a system connected to a well. It's a nice set of videos. I dream about a set-up like that.
> I believe that he had his well installed.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I'll check those out. If I ever do anything with an irrigation well I'll be sure to post it! Can't wait for that day. Sick and tired of paying sewage fees for water not treated :evil:
Click to expand...

 When you say your water bill is tied to your sewage bill does that mean that you pay a higher rate for any water that doesn't go into the sewer?


----------



## pennstater2005

bellts02 said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is all about fescue, but GCI Turf (Prof. Pete) of youtube land has several videos on installing a system connected to a well. It's a nice set of videos. I dream about a set-up like that.
> I believe that he had his well installed.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I'll check those out. If I ever do anything with an irrigation well I'll be sure to post it! Can't wait for that day. Sick and tired of paying sewage fees for water not treated :evil:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you say your water bill is tied to your sewage bill does that mean that you pay a higher rate for any water that doesn't go into the sewer?
Click to expand...

No. It means if I get a $75 water bill the sewage uses that and applies a $75 sewer charge. So, last year I watered the reno and spent about $200 in water that month and got a matching $200 sewage bill even though most of that water wasn't actually treated.

Deduct meters aren't allowed by the water company. And the borough won't do anything. Although, they let folks who fill their swimming pools just put a note stating the extra water usage was for a pool and they don't charge them extra. It's insane.


----------



## g-man

Problem solved. Install a pool!


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> Problem solved. Install a pool!


I seriously should!!


----------



## g-man

It is a triple win. 1) Kids and wife happy with pool, 2) less area to Reno, 3)no sewer fees for water. You could Reno every year with a small pump from the pool water to the lawn to empty the pool prior to winter.

Just don't tell the wife about the Reno portion. Just tell her you want to maintain less yard and spend more time with the kids.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> It is a triple win. 1) Kids and wife happy with pool, 2) less area to Reno, 3)no sewer fees for water. You could Reno every year with a small pump from the pool water to the lawn to empty the pool prior to winter.
> 
> Just don't tell the wife about the Reno portion. Just tell her you want to maintain less yard and spend more time with the kids.


I'll ask tonight :lol:


----------



## Ware

pennstater2005 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a triple win. 1) Kids and wife happy with pool, 2) less area to Reno, 3)no sewer fees for water. You could Reno every year with a small pump from the pool water to the lawn to empty the pool prior to winter.
> 
> Just don't tell the wife about the Reno portion. Just tell her you want to maintain less yard and spend more time with the kids.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll ask tonight :lol:
Click to expand...

Standing by for answer.


----------



## pennstater2005

Ware said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a triple win. 1) Kids and wife happy with pool, 2) less area to Reno, 3)no sewer fees for water. You could Reno every year with a small pump from the pool water to the lawn to empty the pool prior to winter.
> 
> Just don't tell the wife about the Reno portion. Just tell her you want to maintain less yard and spend more time with the kids.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll ask tonight :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Standing by for answer.
Click to expand...

I'm too scared. Maybe tomorrow :lol:


----------



## Colonel K0rn

I wish our sewage bill was the same as what we pay per gallon for treated water. It's about a 1:1.50 ratio. We pay more for the sewage on every bill than the potable water. When I was checking out the options for a separate meter for irrigation vs. installing a shallow well for irrigation, the ROI would have been about 8 years. I couldn't justify the expense of installing the well or the separate meter,. As it stands, I've got the greenest looking yard in the neighborhood with no irrigation, and I'm just playing it smart with irrigation as the yard tells me when it needs it. There's a couple of spots that will get a bit more "less green" than the rest of the yard. That's my clue to go out and syringe the turf, which I've done twice this year.

Thankfully, we've been getting adequate rainfall, but I have to say that I'm not putting down as much water as I think a lawn like this would need. Whether or not that I can attribute that to the GCF product applications, I'm not sure. This is really the first year I've had a solid monostand in the front. Got a mutt yard in the back.


----------



## pennstater2005

@Colonel K0rn Sorry. Just saw your post. 8 years is a long time to get your money back on a deduct meter! That's why I'm still considering installing an irrigation well myself.


----------



## pennstater2005

Mowed. Back is hanging on.


----------



## g-man

I see heavy equipment in the back. Is that for the pool?


----------



## ChadStokes

pennstater2005 said:


> Mowed. Back is hanging on.


Yard is looking green! Looks like it handled the heatwave we had from the past week or so!


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> I see heavy equipment in the back. Is that for the pool?


I wish! Neighbor is putting up a new outbuilding and also a new driveway to get to it. I got to run the excavator for two hours! Sweet :thumbsup:


----------



## pennstater2005

ChadStokes said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mowed. Back is hanging on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yard is looking green! Looks like it handled the heatwave we had from the past week or so!
Click to expand...

Thanks! No irrigation so if it stays hot I expect it to get crispy.


----------



## g-man

Ha! If you could run an excavator, why there is not hole for the pool by now? Also trench lines for irrigation.


----------



## social port

:lol: g-man, the relentless.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


>


@pennstater2005 Did you use the excavator to stripe?

Looks like you had a great afternoon :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> Ha! If you could run an excavator, why there is not hole for the pool by now? Also trench lines for irrigation.


I'm digging my own well by hand remember?! :lol:


----------



## ericgautier

pennstater2005 said:


> Mowed. Back is hanging on.


Looking good! :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

ericgautier said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mowed. Back is hanging on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking good! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Thanks Eric!


----------



## pennstater2005

Time to attack!


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Time to attack!


1. Nice sticker
2. Nice sprayer
3. Get it all! :thumbup:


----------



## ericgautier

@pennstater2005 I don't see... glyphosate. :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

@social port It's done. See how much it takes out now.

@ericgautier No glyphosate unfortunately  Hopefully next year! Well, at least no blanket spraying glypho.


----------



## pennstater2005

Front yard is rough. Since I won't be renovating anything this year I'll be doing some leveling in the front at least. It's bad.....so bad.


----------



## pennstater2005

Got a bit of bleaching from the Tenacity app. White grass is better than dead grass.


----------



## ChadStokes

Where did you order your tenacity from? Locally?


----------



## pennstater2005

ChadStokes said:


> Where did you order your tenacity from? Locally?


From Do My Own. Free shipping and same prices as anywhere else if not a little better. Plus, if you use the link at the top of the page it benefits the site here a little.


----------



## pennstater2005

Go Tenacity Go!


----------



## jessehurlburt

pennstater2005 said:


> Go Tenacity Go!


Stuff is awesome. My crabgrass is all smoked.


----------



## pennstater2005

jessehurlburt said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go Tenacity Go!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuff is awesome. My crabgrass is all smoked.
Click to expand...

Yeah that picture in your lawn journal looks like you lit it all up.


----------



## pennstater2005

The front yard is embarrassingly bad but I'll show a pic of the Tenacity lighting up the Nimble will and Nutsedge......


----------



## g-man

I like how tenacity makes the weeds pop. You got this. Some nitrogen and it will look great.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> I like how tenacity makes the weeds pop. You got this. Some nitrogen and it will look great.


It is pretty crazy. Cooler temps next week so if rain is predicted as well I'll give it a light dose of N.


----------



## social port

I know that you have a lot of bleached weeds right now, but the thing I notice is how green your grass is under the tree. :nod: 
It's summer, Pennstater. How does your grass still have that color?!


----------



## pennstater2005

Backyard is stressed. Less than an inch of rain in the last three weeks. I just mowed for the first time in a week.


----------



## Powhatan

If it was in my power, I'd give you a whole bunch of rain.


----------



## pennstater2005

Powhatan said:


> If it was in my power, I'd give you a whole bunch of rain.


 :no:

Just a little please.


----------



## pennstater2005

Follow up app of Tenacity this weekend. The Nimblewill is stubborn as is the crabgrass.


----------



## Green

Did you get any rain out of the tropical moisture this past week?


----------



## pennstater2005

Green said:


> Did you get any rain out of the tropical moisture this past week?


Minimal. It was predicted but most of it missed us. My grass is thirsty.


----------



## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you get any rain out of the tropical moisture this past week?
> 
> 
> 
> Minimal. It was predicted but most of it missed us. My grass is thirsty.
Click to expand...

We went 3 weeks without rain once this Summer and once in late Spring, here too. Also went two weeks one or two times this Summer. Even most of my irrigated parts are partly dormant, despite having gotten over two inches of rain the past week.

I think you saw my photos showing the totally dormant, minimally irrigated areas, too. It always looks greener in photos...the brown doesn't totally show.

It's been a tough Summer in the Northeast for grass.


----------



## pennstater2005

View from the neighbors. He was hanging with me. He likes his weeds.


----------



## social port

So, does your lawn come up during the conversation?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> So, does your lawn come up during the conversation?


Yeah but mostly he just rips on me.


----------



## pennstater2005

Mowed last night for the first time in awhile. Not growing much. Never got to get the 2nd Tenacity app down in the front today as temps were in the low 90s. Raining right now as I look out the window and I need it.

Looking forward to fall and the ensuing nitrogen. It's getting close to the fall pre m for me as well and I've got to plan for that. My kids play in the yard constantly so it's hard to get anything down especially since I go heavy with the blue marking dye!


----------



## Green

How much rain?
First time in how long?


----------



## pennstater2005

Green said:


> How much rain?
> First time in how long?


Don't know. Came down heavy and hard for about ten minutes. Not the kind of rain I want but I'll take it.


----------



## Green

Getting enough rain finally?


----------



## pennstater2005

Green said:


> Getting enough rain finally?


It is looking better but it just hasn't rained here much. There's been the threat of rain almost constantly. We live on a hill of sorts and I wonder sometimes if that has something to do with it. Watching the radar a lot of times it splits and goes north and south of us.


----------



## social port

Well, all of this has me curious: 1. Are you using anything for irrigation? and 2) Did that nimblewill ever die? I'm thinking tenacity is a must-have for me next year.
Do you remember when you asked the forum if anyone has ever received herbicide for Christmas (some time last year, I think)? Well, I think I will be guilty of that this year.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Well, all of this has me curious: 1. Are you using anything for irrigation? and 2) Did that nimblewill ever die? I'm thinking tenacity is a must-have for me next year.
> Do you remember when you asked the forum if anyone has ever received herbicide for Christmas (some time last year, I think)? Well, I think I will be guilty of that this year.


I do remember that :lol: It's pretty bad if someone is on Do my own looking for gifts!

1. No irrigation (not until I figure out the sewage bill tied to water situation).

2. With Nimblewill it is listed on the label as needing a follow up application in 2-3 weeks and up to 3 times. I never got around to the 2nd app but I'm on vacation this week so it might get done.

Tenacity is pretty sweet. It got rid of a lot of different broadleaf weeds and weedy grasses. Some just take multiple applications. I enjoy the lawn but I'm also kind of lazy so it'll never be perfect. 3 small kids makes me leary of pounding my grass with herbicides. I hand pull a lot of weeds!


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> I'm on vacation this week


Man! Have a great one :thumbup:


----------



## g-man

Hey, we figure out the irrigation out for you. Just install a pool. The kids will love it. :-D


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> Hey, we figure out the irrigation out for you. Just install a pool. The kids will love it. :-D


Yeah I know! I need a few years. They want a dog first!


----------



## social port

g-man said:


> Hey, we figure out the irrigation out for you. Just install a pool. The kids will love it. :-D


That's true!

Also,


pennstater2005 said:


> It's pretty bad if someone is on Do my own looking for gifts!


It's only bad if they are not using the TLF DMO link


----------



## pennstater2005

Bought ten 40# bags of topsoil from HD. And 2# of KBG 1# of PRG. All to level some terrible uneven spots in the front yard and re seed.

I'm bad with the weight of each grass type to get a 75/25 ratio. Pics to come of leveling. Have to do something since no reno this year.


----------



## Powhatan

pennstater2005 said:


> Bought ten 40# bags of topsoil from HD.


@pennstater2005 Did you get the Earthgro Topsoil? I believe that is a Scotts product. I'll be getting some topsoil later this month so am interested how you like the Earthgro product.


----------



## pennstater2005

Powhatan said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bought ten 40# bags of topsoil from HD.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you get the Earthgro Topsoil? I believe that is a Scotts product. I'll be getting some topsoil later this month so am interested how you like the Earthgro product.
Click to expand...

No it is Organic Valley. I actually like it because it's mostly topsoil with a little sand, peat, and mulch mixed in. And it's only something like 1.47 for a 40# bag.


----------



## Powhatan

pennstater2005 said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bought ten 40# bags of topsoil from HD.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you get the Earthgro Topsoil? I believe that is a Scotts product. I'll be getting some topsoil later this month so am interested how you like the Earthgro product.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it is Organic Valley. I actually like it because it's mostly topsoil with a little sand, peat, and mulch mixed in. And it's only something like 1.47 for a 40# bag.
Click to expand...

Intresting. Might be a regional buy product. I don't see it listed in my area Home Depot store's webpage. Lowe's has it listed, but none in stock or available for delivery.


----------



## pennstater2005

Powhatan said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you get the Earthgro Topsoil? I believe that is a Scotts product. I'll be getting some topsoil later this month so am interested how you like the Earthgro product.
> 
> 
> 
> No it is Organic Valley. I actually like it because it's mostly topsoil with a little sand, peat, and mulch mixed in. And it's only something like 1.47 for a 40# bag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Intresting. Might be a regional buy product. I don't see it listed in my area Home Depot store's webpage. Lowe's has it listed, but none in stock or available for delivery.
Click to expand...

I checked the Home Depot page for my store. They actually show the Earthgro as having 637 or so in stock. But it's actually the Organic Valley. Weird.


----------



## Powhatan

pennstater2005 said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it is Organic Valley. I actually like it because it's mostly topsoil with a little sand, peat, and mulch mixed in. And it's only something like 1.47 for a 40# bag.
> 
> 
> 
> Intresting. Might be a regional buy product. I don't see it listed in my area Home Depot store's webpage. Lowe's has it listed, but none in stock or available for delivery.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I checked the Home Depot page for my store. They actually show the Earthgro as having 637 or so in stock. But it's actually the Organic Valley. Weird.
Click to expand...

I'll have to get some of the Earthgro and try it. Thanks

I think my local HD inventory is waaaay off, says "54172 in stock at Williamsburg"


----------



## pennstater2005

Powhatan said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Intresting. Might be a regional buy product. I don't see it listed in my area Home Depot store's webpage. Lowe's has it listed, but none in stock or available for delivery.
> 
> 
> 
> I checked the Home Depot page for my store. They actually show the Earthgro as having 637 or so in stock. But it's actually the Organic Valley. Weird.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'll have to get some of the Earthgro and try it. Thanks
> 
> I think my local HD inventory is waaaay off, says "54172 in stock at Williamsburg"
Click to expand...

Just a thought. The Organic Valley topsoil is probably only 25% topsoil. The rest is sand, peat, and some other stuff. I am probably going to mix it in with some compost to fill the dips and unevenness in my front yard. I called around to have 3 yards delivered and price per yard was between $39-44 per yard plus a deliver fee ranging from $30-45. I was surprised.

If I had my own way to get it the price would be $20 per ton for screened and $15 for non screened. I'm not sure what I'm going to do but it will be soon. Raining today so no go. I also picked up the Greenview seeding mulch pellets as a trial from Lowes. They are supposed to cover 600sq ft and were about $13. I'm going to use them in place of peat moss and will sprinkle a little bit of the EZ Straw I have leftover from this spring for a little added security. This will be good experimentation for next falls reno.


----------



## Budstl

@pennstater2005 How'd that ez straw work out for ya? Any weed seed in it? I'm debating on this or peat.

Edit: i see in the ole interwebs it says 99% weed free.


----------



## pennstater2005

Budstl said:


> How'd that ez straw work out for ya? Any weed seed in it? I'm debating on this or peat.


It worked well with no real weed pressure that I noticed. I actually put peat down very lightly because I had it then topped it off with the EZ straw. In the front I'll be using the seeding mulch pellets lightly with EZ straw. The EZ straw has gone a long way actually. And there is definitely tackifier in it as it is pretty dusty when you are speading it.


----------



## pennstater2005

Just used the Scott's whiz for the first spoon feeding of nitrogen as it is raining. That thing is freaking awesome! It took me less then five minutes to walk with it across 15k.

I did have to bounce it slightly to keep a continuous rate of application. Otherwise, a great purchase.


----------



## social port

I have one of those and really like it, too.

I give just a little bounce and slightly rotate left and right as I am moving along.

It is perfect for light doses. g-man gave me the recommendation on that purchase.


----------



## g-man

It is great, but don't fill it too much. When it is full and you want to stop, a prills might get stuck in the gate and it keeps it on. You have to bounce the product back away from the gate to take the prill out. It is a great tool for small qty stuff (Fall nitrogen).


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> It is great, but don't fill it too much. When it is full and you want to stop, a prills might get stuck in the gate and it keeps it on. You have to bounce the product back away from the gate to take the prill out. It is a great tool for small qty stuff (Fall nitrogen).


You made me go down and check and make sure I didn't leave it on. It was in the on position. No prills stuck though.

It is an unbelievable tool for spreading small amounts of fertilizer.


----------



## g-man

When there is a prill stuck, the motor keeps turning and spreading right when you want it not to spread.


----------



## pennstater2005

Got 20 - 40# bags of topsoil and 10 - 40# bags of compost/manure mix. Going to haul it all up to the front yard mix it all together and then fill in all the low spots. This is a few years in the making. I've got KBG and PRG seed and will do closer to an 80/20 mix in the front.

Then I'll top off with Greenview seeding mulch pellets and a light layer of EZ straw mostly for the tack that's in it.

Pictures to come!

Not a reno but at least it's something :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

To start with.......a bit out of order....


----------



## pennstater2005

All finished with leveling. I'll need more sometime next year.


----------



## g-man

The wife approved of the partial Reno? Congrats.


----------



## social port

So the topsoil was organic valley?
What about the compost and manure? Gardenscapes?

I'm taking notes for next year.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> The wife approved of the partial Reno? Congrats.


No 🙁 This was just leveling in the front because there were dips that were nearly 6" deep at the center. Although this is something at least!!


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> So the topsoil was organic valley?
> What about the compost and manure? Gardenscapes?
> 
> I'm taking notes for next year.


I got ten bags of organic valley and ten bags of garden scapes to mix with 10 bags of compost. I figured if the quality was poor on either one I could at least minimize it somewhat. I was pleased overall once it was all mixed together.


----------



## pennstater2005

Crazy story....

I finished spraying Tenacity after I seeded and decided to fix the water spigot at the front of the house.

It was stuck so I torqued it off with a pipe wrench. It broke. I went to the basement to shut off the water main and it sprung a leak. Called Aqua who charges $200 to shut off at the curb. Finally slowed it to a drip.

Have a former patient coming tomorrow morning who works for Aqua to help me shut it off at the curb then replace the in house shut off with a new valve.

Spent five hours messing around and driving to get the parts from multiple stores. Got it all though and now I'm home without water. Stupid spigot!!!

Anyway here's a picture of the finished front with no water to water it in :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

Oh and I used the Greenview seeding mulch pellets. I'll report back how well they worked later on.


----------



## g-man

pennstater2005 said:


> Anyway here's a picture of the finished front with no water to water it in :lol:


And no water to take a shower.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway here's a picture of the finished front with no water to water it in :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> And no water to take a shower.
Click to expand...

 :crying:


----------



## g-man

A sharkbite ball valve could solve your problem tonight. Since you got the meter closed to a trickle (or even if it is not). Cut the pipe with hand saw, use the valve in the open position (water flowing) and press it in. You will get wet. Then close the ball valve. At the end connect the other side.


----------



## social port

Dang, @pennstater2005 !!


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> A sharkbite ball valve could solve your problem tonight. Since you got the meter closed to a trickle (or even if it is not). Cut the pipe with hand saw, use the valve in the open position (water flowing) and press it in. You will get wet. Then close the ball valve. At the end connect the other side.


I have the ball valve and the male compression fitting that goes in that. The valve is before the meter though. Which means even though it's off there, sort of, it's not off at the curb. So if I cut it, it will flood my basement.


----------



## pennstater2005

Finally got the leveled and seeded areas watered in last night. Now to hook up the spigot after the water fiasco! No more leaks please :fool:


----------



## pennstater2005

Yesterday I ordered 14 (50#) bags of Lebanon 0-0-7 prodiamine and my seed/soil moist seed coating for next year. I've decided to go back to granular for my fall and spring pre emergents. The thought of loading up the backpack how many times to cover 15K was just too much. I did spring of 2017 and I hated every minute of it.

And with the price of $16 for a 50# bag I just couldn't pass it up. I'll use 3 bags a year so it will last for nearly five years. It is coming via their delivery truck and should be here next week. Now, where to store all that?!!


----------



## social port

Do you mind saying where you bought the PreM? After my preM misfortune this year, I want to try something new.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Do you mind saying where you bought the PreM? After my preM misfortune this year, I want to try something new.


Sorry SP. Missed this somehow. EH Griffith out of Pittsburgh. The only reason I could do that is if you're considered local it's only a $10 delivery fee via their own trucks. They go as far north as Erie which really surprised me. $250 minimum spend that's why I bought so much prodiamine.


----------



## pennstater2005

I've got germination. These are the small areas in the front. It's about 80/20 KBG/PRG. The PRG established so quickly it seems like it helps hold the KBG seed in place in case of a wash out.

I used the seed mulch pellets and weed free EZ straw with tack on top. No peat. If this goes well I'll be doing the same for the continuation of small backyard renovations next fall. Pics below.


----------



## Budstl

Yay! Congrats!


----------



## pennstater2005

Budstl said:


> Yay! Congrats!


Thanks!!


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mind saying where you bought the PreM? After my preM misfortune this year, I want to try something new.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry SP. Missed this somehow. EH Griffith out of Pittsburgh. The only reason I could do that is if you're considered local it's only a $10 delivery fee via their own trucks. They go as far north as Erie which really surprised me. $250 minimum spend that's why I bought so much prodiamine.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. Thanks. 
Congrats on the little babies!


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mind saying where you bought the PreM? After my preM misfortune this year, I want to try something new.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry SP. Missed this somehow. EH Griffith out of Pittsburgh. The only reason I could do that is if you're considered local it's only a $10 delivery fee via their own trucks. They go as far north as Erie which really surprised me. $250 minimum spend that's why I bought so much prodiamine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Gotcha. Thanks.
> Congrats on the little babies!
Click to expand...

Thanks. Are you thinking of using granular for your pre m?


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry SP. Missed this somehow. EH Griffith out of Pittsburgh. The only reason I could do that is if you're considered local it's only a $10 delivery fee via their own trucks. They go as far north as Erie which really surprised me. $250 minimum spend that's why I bought so much prodiamine.
> 
> 
> 
> Gotcha. Thanks.
> Congrats on the little babies!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks. Are you thinking of using granular for your pre m?
Click to expand...

Yes, I went granular this year. Granular is just more doable.

But I was not happy with the results. Since then, I've learned that the product I used was from a solid company (Lebanon). I've also learned, in a post by you in another thread, that granular PreMs keep well if they are sealed in bags. G-man suggested that my rate was too low based on university research; he is probably right, but I applied per the label. So...I just want to try something else next year. 
I used dithiopyr, so why not try my hand with prodiamine. That's my thinking anyway .


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gotcha. Thanks.
> Congrats on the little babies!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. Are you thinking of using granular for your pre m?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I went granular this year. Granular is just more doable.
> 
> But I was not happy with the results. Since then, I've learned that the product I used was from a solid company (Lebanon). I've also learned, in a post by you in another thread, that granular PreMs keep well if they are sealed in bags. G-man suggested that my rate was too low based on university research; he is probably right, but I applied per the label. So...I just want to try something else next year.
> I used dithiopyr, so why not try my hand with prodiamine. That's my thinking anyway .
Click to expand...

I've done dithiopyr granular before as well and didn't have spectacular results. That's why I ended up going with prodiamine WDG 65. But, too much work for me spraying 15k and even more for you at 20k! I plan on doing split apps starting as soon as I get the shipment this week. I'm hoping it comes on a pallet so I can get a picture :nod:


----------



## pennstater2005

EH Griffith came today! Got all 14 bags of prodiamine and some seed + seed coating. Think I'm gonna keep the pallet to stack all my urea, starter fert, and other stuff right on it.


----------



## Powhatan

Lawn goodies :yahoo:


----------



## pennstater2005

Powhatan said:


> Lawn goodies :yahoo:


He told my wife it was only the second residential place he had ever delivered to :nod:


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Powhatan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lawn goodies :yahoo:
> 
> 
> 
> He told my wife it was only the second residential place he had ever delivered to :nod:
Click to expand...

Badge of honor.


----------



## pennstater2005

No pre emergent for me tonight...


----------



## pennstater2005

Continued germination. I didn't want to mix in any PRG but I figured 20% was ok. It germinates quickly and I believe helped keep the KBG from washing away in some heavy rains. There is some KBG in here now.

The taller, darker green stuff was already there. It's at the edges. This is just a small few leveled areas in the front.


----------



## social port

Hey, hey, that looks like it is coming up pretty evenly across the area.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Hey, hey, that looks like it is coming up pretty evenly across the area.


It is. I've been hand watering twice a day. This is a locally sourced KBG blend of older varieties. I'll be very interested to see how this turns out.


----------



## pennstater2005

Just checked the soil temps around the yard. It's averaging around 75 degrees. I've got some time yet until my pre emergent has to go down, which is good because there isn't much rain forecasted. I want to get it applied before it starts averaging 70 degrees.


----------



## pennstater2005

Need to get prodiamine down and urea this weekend. But with 3-5" of possible rain coming gotta hold off again :evil:


----------



## ChadStokes

I know how ya feel...I want to put more seed down but I'm afraid of another washout


----------



## pennstater2005

ChadStokes said:


> I know how ya feel...I want to put more seed down but I'm afraid of another washout


Well, we have some lighter rain coming so I put down the prodiamine and urea after mowing. Hope it makes it before Sundays predicted heavy rains :dunno:


----------



## Budstl

@pennstater2005 seems like everyone is getting hit with rain from this storm. I put down my prodiamine weds. Got a nice 40 minute soaking rain yesterday.


----------



## pennstater2005

Budstl said:


> Got a nice 40 minute soaking rain yesterday.


That's what I'm hoping for tonight. Then no rain tomorrow. Heavy rain Sunday but the prodiamine would've been mostly absorbed into the soil by then.


----------



## samjonester

Looking good! That's a nice green haze showing up. Hope the rain this weekend doesn't do any damage, though it would probably take a lot to hurt what has already sprouted.

I seeded a pot the same time I put my seed down to learn about root growth and plant development. Here's a shot I just took. The sprout in the picture popped up yesterday. It's TTTF, though I doubt that changes much.


----------



## pennstater2005

samjonester said:


> Looking good! That's a nice green haze showing up. Hope the rain this weekend doesn't do any damage, though it would probably take a lot to hurt what has already sprouted.
> 
> I seeded a pot the same time I put my seed down to learn about root growth and plant development. Here's a shot I just took. The sprout in the picture popped up yesterday. It's TTTF, though I doubt that changes much.


Interesting experiment. So about an inch worth of root? I don't think the heavy rains will do anything to seeded areas although all of the KBG may not have germinated yet. I saw the Hogan blend you used. I am considering TTTF w KBG for next fall in another section reno in the backyard. I'll be very interested in how yours turns out :thumbup:


----------



## samjonester

pennstater2005 said:


> samjonester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking good! That's a nice green haze showing up. Hope the rain this weekend doesn't do any damage, though it would probably take a lot to hurt what has already sprouted.
> 
> I seeded a pot the same time I put my seed down to learn about root growth and plant development. Here's a shot I just took. The sprout in the picture popped up yesterday. It's TTTF, though I doubt that changes much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting experiment. So about an inch worth of root? I don't think the heavy rains will do anything to seeded areas although all of the KBG may not have germinated yet. I saw the Hogan blend you used. I am considering TTTF w KBG for next fall in another section reno in the backyard. I'll be very interested in how yours turns out :thumbup:
Click to expand...

The sprout on the right barely shows above the seed hull, and it's got the same 1" root, so I'm assuming that the root dives first, then the sprout rises up.


----------



## social port

That looks like such a large root for a little baby blade. I generally assume that height is close to root depth in the younglings, but it is pretty cool to actually see it.


----------



## Creppin

pennstater2005 said:


> Bought ten 40# bags of topsoil from HD. And 2# of KBG 1# of PRG. All to level some terrible uneven spots in the front yard and re seed.
> 
> I'm bad with the weight of each grass type to get a 75/25 ratio. Pics to come of leveling. Have to do something since no reno this year.


Hey - been following the thread pretty close as I'm a Western PA resident too! Where'd you get the small quantities of the seed? I know it's getting late, but last weeks 90+ And 3-5" rain tomorrow I can't seem to find a good time to seed!

I stopped by EH Griffith and got 5lb of the E mix (.01 weed  ) but also ordered some TTTF from united seed. I just hate shipping charges so trying to source local. Also trying to learn to do my own lawn treatments.

Thanks!


----------



## pennstater2005

Creppin said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bought ten 40# bags of topsoil from HD. And 2# of KBG 1# of PRG. All to level some terrible uneven spots in the front yard and re seed.
> 
> I'm bad with the weight of each grass type to get a 75/25 ratio. Pics to come of leveling. Have to do something since no reno this year.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey - been following the thread pretty close as I'm a Western PA resident too! Where'd you get the small quantities of the seed? I know it's getting late, but last weeks 90+ And 3-5" rain tomorrow I can't seem to find a good time to seed!
> 
> I stopped by EH Griffith and got 5lb of the E mix (.01 weed  ) but also ordered some TTTF from united seed. I just hate shipping charges so trying to source local. Also trying to learn to do my own lawn treatments.
> 
> Thanks!
Click to expand...

Welcome to TLF! Nice to see someone else from western PA. I'm about an hour north of you. I got the seed from EH Griffith as well and got the E plus mix. That is what you'll see in my fall reno from last year. The weed seed not great but I was able to treat anything that popped up with herbicides.

I did a big order, over $250, and so they delivered all the way to my house! Funny you mention TTTF as I'm considering that instead for the next section in the yard as I don't have irrigation and I'd like to see how it does. I regret the E plus mix mainly because of the perennial ryegrass in it. I love rye but this year the dead or dying brown stalks really hung around a long time.

I just put down my pre emergent last night and it is getting nicely watered in right now as I type this :nod:

Can't wait to watch Steelers-Browns tomorrow although I'm a Bengals fan :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

@Creppin Also, I would save whatever seed you get for next fall. It's too late for this area. I don't think the KBG would make it through the winter. And that mix is 50% KBG.


----------



## Creppin

Nice! I didn't know EH Griffith sold smaller quantities. Maybe when I talked to them I was confused. I asked about blends and the only blend they have was 5lb. (Smallest) I'll have to ask about their mono seeds. They were very nice and it's only about 15 minutes from downtown.

Yeah, I wanted to seed 2-3 weeks ago but with heat I didn't think I'd be able to keep alive.

I might try early this week to put down the E and TTTF and fingers crossed we have a fall like last year. It was 70's I felt like into November.

Yeah, the big story today is defiantly the Pitt v. Penn State game. Seems like everyone was talking about. Hopefully the games are not washouts.


----------



## pennstater2005

@Creppin I wish that game wasn't on so late but I'll definitely stay up and watch. My smaller quantity was 5lbs. The e plus mix is a 50/50 mix of KBG/PRG. I'll probably source the TTTF from Hogans seed if I go that route. They are very nice there and I've always dealt with Jack. Keep us posted on your seeding!


----------



## pennstater2005

Prodiamine all neatly stacked up. I'm good for about five years now!


----------



## TreyDoc

Been following your thread for a while now and you've given a fellow NW Pennsylvanian some hope! Glad to see a few others posting as well. It was funny seeing your kids helping out, cause it reminded me of my youngins helping with my semi successful (tried to reno before I knew what I know now, which is still very little, and seeded on top of K31, quack grass, triv, and poa annua) reno last year. The EH Griffith delivery tip was awesome as we only have a Site One that carries limited stock and isnt very residential friendly. Unfortunately, got an email that they're out of prodiamine (because someone bought it all 😉), but I'm still get most of my supplies for next year delivered this week.


pennstater2005 said:


> Prodiamine all neatly stacked up. I'm good for about five years now!


If you wanna unload a bag, I'll happily buy one off you. Keep up the great work and look forward to your TTTF reno if you do go that route.


----------



## pennstater2005

@TreyDoc Welcome to TLF! I've got family in Erie and we love Presque Isle! My kids all love helping in the lawn and occasionally it is actually helpful :lol:

Renovations are a tough undertaking even when you sort of know what you're doing. I asked a lot of questions in this thread and I'll be glad to be of any help you might need.

EH Griffith was a great find for me. Did you order from them? My wife did pick up some pre emergent from the Site One in Erie a few years and said they were friendly. Although they are not a residential type place.

I'm seriously considering trying TTTF next fall as my KBG/PRG reno is doing ok but without irrigation it struggled this summer. Of course, with my recent app of urea along with steady rain it has greened up quickly and the KBG fills itself in which is huge. Maybe TTTF with KBG.

Are you planning on using prodiamine for your pre emergent? Granular or spray? I did a spray application spring of 2017 but it was way too much work for my lazy butt :lol: So I switched back to granular and at $16 for 50# at EH Griffith it's tough to beat. It took me hours to spray the prodiamine and about 5 minutes to spread it. The coverage is better with spray but I'm okay with that as even when I sprayed I still had to spot treat weeds throughout the spring, summer, and fall. I have a 5# jug of prodiamine (for spray applications) that I'm going to list shortly here on the marketplace section if you have any interest. I wouldn't want much for it.

Anyway, again welcome to TLF :thumbup:


----------



## social port

That is an awesome supply of prodiamine. When people begin creating threads wondering why they can't get prodiamine in Pennsylvania, I'll know where to send them 

With a recent urea app and lots of rain, it might be time for some pics :nod:


----------



## TreyDoc

Yea it's a great place to visit, boring place to live lol. Yeah, I've been getting a lot of advice from members here, don't know how to red tag users yet, so I don't think they get a notification when I mention them. I'm writing up a post on my past fails and prep for next year that I'd appreciate any and all feedback on. I did order from EH, but they emailed me and told me that the granular prodiamine and tenacity were out of stock, so I'm only getting the Milo, which is still good since there is no one that sells it here anymore. I can't seem to find a similar product locally and online nothing ghat is similar in price, so I'm at a bit of crossroads. As per some suggestions in another post, putting down some granular prodiamine now would help reduce the poa annua and other winter annuals from terminating and seeding, thus helping my reno next year greatly.

Look forward to watching your lawn work and pickin your brain a bit.


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Yea it's a great place to visit, boring place to live lol. Yeah, I've been getting a lot of advice from members here, don't know how to red tag users yet, so I don't think they get a notification when I mention them. I'm writing up a post on my past fails and prep for next year that I'd appreciate any and all feedback on. I did order from EH, but they emailed me and told me that the granular prodiamine and tenacity were out of stock, so I'm only getting the Milo, which is still good since there is no one that sells it here anymore. I can't seem to find a similar product locally and online nothing ghat is similar in price, so I'm at a bit of crossroads. As per some suggestions in another post, putting down some granular prodiamine now would help reduce the poa annua and other winter annuals from terminating and seeding, thus helping my reno next year greatly.
> 
> Look forward to watching your lawn work and pickin your brain a bit.


Oh you were serious about the prodiamine! I got Dimension (dithiopyr) from Site One in Erie a few years ago and used that and it worked well. It just doesn't last as long. I would call and see if they have it in stock. Instead of milo I would use urea now in smaller doses. I would give the Fall Nitrogen Blitz a read as well if you already haven't.

You can find it at Agway or even cheaper at a smaller farm and feed store. I paid $13 for 50# to give you an idea. It does need watered in and so I time it with forecasted rain. Sometimes literally as the rain is only a few minutes away 

And if you are doing a reno I wouldn't worry about winter annuals too much because you're going to use Round-up (glyphosate) and kill literally everything anyway.

I'm doing my lawn in sections to make it easier on myself and my wallet.

Also if you want to tag some you start typing @ followed by their username and it will pop up in blue and then you click it. It will have the words mention around their username if you did it right.


----------



## g-man

Start with @ then the name. A blue box will hover with a list on names. You need to click on the name. This will change the @ with [ mentions]name[/ mentions]. And that's it.

It doesnt seem to notify on post edits.

edit: Penn beat me to it.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> That is an awesome supply of prodiamine. When people begin creating threads wondering why they can't get prodiamine in Pennsylvania, I'll know where to send them
> 
> With a recent urea app and lots of rain, it might be time for some pics :nod:


Hey! Hands off :twisted: I was sitting on my stack of prodiamine this morning drinking my cup of coffee. If I did that my wife might actually leave :lol:

The lawn has greened up a bit particularly the reno'd area and the PRG section right below it. It's all healing from summer stress and no water for the last month. I'll get a few pics up when it stops raining :thumbup:


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Hands off I was sitting on my stack of prodiamine this morning drinking my cup of coffee.


 :lol: I wouldn't judge you a bit if you were. That stack makes me happy just by seeing it.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hands off I was sitting on my stack of prodiamine this morning drinking my cup of coffee.
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: I wouldn't judge you a bit if you were. That stack makes me happy just by seeing it.
Click to expand...

It really does............


----------



## TreyDoc

Thanks @g-man and @pennstater2005 . Figured out I have to type the name in the but space then delete and the blue box opens. And Penn, I'm only putting Milo and some SMS down to improve soil, not really feed the weeds, I mean grass 😉. Pretty much overrun by quack, k31, poa annua (that somehow didn't all die out this summer), triv, and some broadleafs.


----------



## pennstater2005

@TreyDoc I gotcha. Not trying to feed weeds huh :lol:


----------



## TreyDoc

They're already full 😣


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> They're already full 😣


That looks workable to me. I see grass in there.


----------



## TreyDoc

Unfortunately, there's almost as much K31 as there is grass. Regarding the TTTF, if the township won't allow me to have an irrigation system, I'm going with a 4th millennium stand. That root system is perfect for this soil and climate. Just wish it had some true recovery powers like KBG. @gregonfire has me thinkin of a nice mix, but @Pete1313 has me praying I can get that irrigation permit. Then again, your 50/50 has me considering something similar. How's that going btw? Is the PRG taking over the KBG?


----------



## pennstater2005

The 50/50 is nice and the spreading power of KBG is amazing. I'm sure through allelopathy the PRG has inhibited some of the KBG.

If i did it again I wouldn't use PRG. I could always over seed it later and over seeding KBG into PRG is tough because of its slower germination rates.

That said if I planted TTTF I would add maybe 10-20% KBG. You give bluegrass some nitrogen and it takes off!

Here is my renovated area from last year right now with just rain water irrigation...


----------



## pennstater2005

And in May of this year.......


----------



## pennstater2005

Couple pics while mowing. I need to rake out some dead areas in last years reno and get the pro plugger out........but I probably won't :lol:





@social port You have to either talk me off the ledge of TTTF or push me over it!! Is it a lazy man's grass?


----------



## Green

@pennstater2005, I would not hesitate to overseed TTTF/KBG into the PR/KBG if you're considering it. I did just that last year on a 1,000 square foot area, and it worked beautifully. The area looks a lot better now, the following year. Best results when it's thin.

I've tended to do 5-6 lbs of TTTF and 0.5-1 lb of KBG when overseeding. A good part of the year, TTTF grows slower than KBG.

Fine fescue is allelopathic, too, by the way.


----------



## pennstater2005

Green said:


> I would not hesitate to overseed TTTF/KBG into the PR/KBG if you're considering it. I did just that last year on a 1,000 square foot area, and it worked beautifully. The area looks a lot better now, the following year. Best results when it's thin.
> 
> I've tended to do 5-6 lbs of TTTF and 0.5-1 lb of KBG when overseeding. A good part of the year, TTTF grows slower than KBG.
> 
> Fine fescue is allelopathic, too, by the way.


Thanks! I'm leaning that way. I'll have to use something shade tolerant in these next few years as the lower portion of my backyard is heavily shaded.


----------



## social port

@pennstater2005  ok, here is my take. But first,
Every time I see that picture from May...I mean, geez, is that geeen.

TTTF is a great grass. 
It's hard to beat the color (once you see its depths, you'll know exactly what I mean. It sometimes makes my stomach tighten, like that feeling when you are young and in love.)
It stripes well
Compared to KBG, it establishes quickly.
It should handle your summers just fine. Not sure about winters, but I'd vote yes (you and Green probably have comparable winters, right?)
I know reel low is nice, but high-cut turf looks stellar

But
You may need to overseed every year
It is susepctible to brown patch, a disease which may or may not knock it out. There are relatively effective preventative treatments, but that should factor in as time, energy, and cost
I haven't found water demands to be high, but others say there is little difference between TTTF and KBG in terms of water requirements.
With KBG, recovery from dormancy is real. For TTTF, it is uncertain. There is too much conflicting information. Catch heat and drought stress early, and you should be fine.

From my experience, 
TTTF needs generous amounts of water in the summer to keep its color optimal, but it needs very little water to remain green with some browning (I.e., not looking mind blowing, but surviving and looking OK) and it will tell you when it needs a drink. 
TTTF gets and recovers from brown patch without fungicide (again, in my experience)
Even with minimal irrigation and some disease this summer, most of my TTTF is alive and thriving. 
I have minimal overseeding requirements. And this is from a first-year TTTF lawn - a period in which it is at greatest risk for effects from disease, heat, and drought.

PUSH

I use LS1200, Turbo, and Cochise IV. Word on the street is that Cochise IV is about to be replaced by V. Turbo has been replaced by Firewall.

Biggest question is whether you are doing all TTTF or a TTTFKBG Blend :mrgreen:


----------



## g-man

What is this crazy talk? Kbg monostand is your only option.


----------



## pennstater2005

@social port Thanks for the great input! I've got a feeling the possible need for over seeding could possibly tip me away from TTTF. Winters around here are generally mild anymore so that shouldn't be a big concern. What do you mean when you say recover from dormancy is uncertain regarding TTTF? That sounds a bit scary. If I did this it would be a mix of TTTF and KBG.

The only other mix I'm considering is KBG/PRG again but I would go significantly higher to KBG than the 50/50 I did last fall. Monostands scare me @g-man :lol:


----------



## ken-n-nancy

pennstater2005 said:


> Monostands scare me @g-man :lol:


Well, you could go for a 2-way KBG blend like I'm trying in my front lawn -- Bewitched & Prosperity at 50/50.

You should probably wait to see how mine turns out, though...


----------



## pennstater2005

ken-n-nancy said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Monostands scare me @g-man :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you could go for a 2-way KBG blend like I'm trying in my front lawn -- Bewitched & Prosperity at 50/50.
> 
> You should probably wait to see how mine turns out, though...
Click to expand...

My mix from last fall contained 3 KBG and 3 PRG cultivars. It turned out nice. I'll definitely be watching yours :nod:


----------



## g-man

The main benefit of a kbg is that you could let it go dormant in the summer and it bounces back with rain. If I recall correctly, 0.5in of irrigation every 3 weeks is all it needs during dormancy. A 3way(Award, Bewitched, something else) kbg might be best than a mono.


----------



## Green

social port said:


> It should handle your summers just fine. Not sure about winters, but I'd vote yes (you and Green probably have comparable winters, right?)


TTTF is much more persistent in both Northeast Summers and Winters than PR. I typically lose some PR each year in either the Summer, Winter, or both. I lost a bit of TTTF this Summer, but less than what I lose with PR. I haven't lost TTTF in the Winter yet that I know of, but it's very prone to snow mold.

The PR seems fo hold up a little better in heat when mixed with TTTF and KBG, versus just mixed with KBG. Maybe the mix offers better protection.


----------



## social port

g-man said:


> What is this crazy talk? Kbg monostand is your only option.


TTTF monostand



pennstater2005 said:


> I've got a feeling the possible need for over seeding could possibly tip me away from TTTF.


Overseeding is something you should expect to do if you have pure TTTF. Remember LawnNerd's post about overseeding TTTF a month or so ago? His suggestion that overseeding isn't absolutely necessary is an exception -- very contrary -- to what we assume about the general maintenance of the turf. I very much agree with LawnNerd's point; but you should still at least expect to overseed annually.

If you are doing a TTTF/KBG mix, then I imagine that the rules can be shaken up a bit more. Green would know here. I think he does overseed regularly, but I'm not sure if it is absolutely necessary, as you still would likely have some TTTF, and your KBG could fill in any losses. Any thoughts here, @Green ?



pennstater2005 said:


> What do you mean when you say recover from dormancy is uncertain regarding TTTF?


Uncertainty about how well it recovers from dormancy induced by drought stress. I've heard very seasoned growers say that the line between death and dormancy from drought is thin. Alternatively, I've heard very seasoned growers say that they can bring fescue out of dormancy from drought with no real worries. It's hard to reconcile this, and there is probably a good explanation for it; I just don't know what it is yet. Personally, I've not experienced any real loss from drought. You may recall that I had a noticeable percentage of my fescue brown on my slopes this summer. Once I used a surfactant and gave it more water, it came back, albeit slowly. I don't think there is any brown grass on my slopes now (other than what I've purposefully killed).

So, I make a conservative assumption: If it's brown, it's down. Once I notice blades drying out, I get motivated to water ASAP (but really, this happens infrequently).

You can see how TTTF contrasts with KBG in this regard, when g-man can say 


g-man said:


> you could let it go dormant in the summer and it voices back with rain


Nothing uncertain about that.



Green said:


> but it's very prone to snow mold.


Did not know that!

I'm excited to see what you are going to do, pennstater.


----------



## Green

@social port , @pennstater2005 :

My TTTF/KBG is in the back, North side, so it doesn't get killed in the Summer the way the front does occasionally. That said, this year, it developed dormant patches...and there is still some brown. I'll try to determine tomorrow if I lost anything...but it can be hard to tell sometimes. I hardly irrigated the lower back this year...only a handful times...less than 10x. All of a sudden, there were dormant patches, almost overnight, in late July. That was due to a water deficit developing. It showed the signs of heat stress, but I didn't water right away when it did.

I haven't typically overseeded that area. Exceptions were:

An overseed last Fall in the area immediately behind the deck, which thinned out due to a combination of snow damage and lack of light (since snow tends to get piled there when it's shoveled off the deck, and it's the last place in the yard that it melts, and the last place that greens up in general). A couple of Winters ago, it was still covered into May! That damaged it. So I overseeded that small area last year with TTTF seed because the KBG is poor in the shade and was thin.

And then this past Spring, I had mouse/vole damage while there was still snow, and the ground was in danger of eroding, so I fixed the paths and dropped some seed into them.

I also overseeded a small area last year that was still the old fine fescue mix and never got renovated to the new TTTF/KBG mix.

So far, those are the only overseeds of the back in the past 4 years. Very minimal stuff.

As of this week, if the dormant/brown areas still don't have significant green everywhere in the patches, I will overseed them, but I don't know yet if that's the case. Some of it is definitely recovering with water, but I might have a few patches that need help. We'll see.

With irrigation, I definitely lost some in the front this year, and am now in the middle of an overseed of those patches. This Summer was more typical of the inland transition zone than the coastal Northeast, though, as you know...soil temps in the mid to upper 90s at times.

As far as dormancy: Supposedly, Tall Fescue falls into two categories with respect to dormancy per the research...

The "Continental" type (which almost all of our TTTF is based upon) goes into incomplete or partial Summer dormancy when it has to (peppered brown/green look), but it prefers to stay green. If it goes totally brown, it may lose all moisture. If that happens, it's dead.

The Mediterranean type readily goes into complete or near complete Summer dormancy, in which it goes mostly brown very readily with a relatively low threshold of heat/drought. It comes out of that in the cool weather. It's not typically used in lawns that I know of. If it were, it would probably act more like KBG. Some types of fine fescue do something similar.

As far as I know, there's nothing yet that has aspects of both in one.

Regarding mowing height: 3.5 to 4 inches seems to work well in the Summer in the Northeast with irrigation. The lower limit for Tall Fescue on a level base is generally 1.5 inches, but it prefers the 2.5-4+ inch range.

@ryanknorr has a relatively recent video discussing Tall Fescue, and why it might be the ultimate cool-season grass. He did not go for it, though, because he's playing with mowing reel low these days.


----------



## pennstater2005

It's looking like, but not feeling like, fall :thumbup: Dormant grass is coming back....pretty exciting!


----------



## TreyDoc

That is looking really good. Look forward to what comes next.


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> That is looking really good. Look forward to what comes next.


Thanks! Hopefully it will just get greener and greener with the fall nitrogen apps. Otherwise, I'm just waiting on next fall for another partial renovation.


----------



## pennstater2005

Mowed at about 2.5" inches and then got urea down. Expecting rain tomorrow. I think I've used the string trimmer maybe 3 times the entire season and it shows. Man do I hate string trimming.


----------



## social port

Mowing and urea? Must be fall (finally) :mrgreen:

What kind of string trimmer do you have?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Mowing and urea? Must be fall (finally) :mrgreen:
> 
> What kind of string trimmer do you have?


Echo SRM 225. Nice trimmer just the thing I despise doing the most outside.


----------



## pennstater2005

Raked out some dead stuff from last year's reno area. I'm hoping that the KBG, with a little nitrogen boost, will begin to fill in.





I think this is crabgrass. It's here and there.......





I've been hand pulling it. It's coming up very easily.


----------



## pennstater2005

Quick pic before work this morning! Can't tell if the Screaming Green did anything yet. Definitely got watered in nicely. It was in the upper area you can see was re done last year.


----------



## social port

I like the green I am seeing back there. Has any of the fungus returned?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> I like the green I am seeing back there. Has any of the fungus returned?


Nope that has resolved! Now I just need darker shades of green everywhere else. I'm on a ten year plan :lol:


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like the green I am seeing back there. Has any of the fungus returned?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope that has resolved! Now I just need darker shades of green everywhere else. I'm on a ten year plan :lol:
Click to expand...

I hear you. If it all is as green as last year's reno area, it's going to look great.


----------



## pennstater2005

Not sure if the green up in last years partial reno was due to the Screaming Green or the prior urea apps. Probably a combo of all including rain and cooler temps. Can't wait to do the next section. It's pretty rough looking.


----------



## Budstl

@pennstater2005 that sure is looking dark. Are you planning on using screamin green at all next year? I plan to use it. I'm just not sure if i want to use the front or the back lawn as a trial.


----------



## pennstater2005

Budstl said:


> @pennstater2005 that sure is looking dark. Are you planning on using screamin green at all next year? I plan to use it. I'm just not sure if i want to use the front or the back lawn as a trial.


Probably not unless I could find a really good deal on it. Or maybe just once before I start the urea fall program.


----------



## samjonester

Looking good! Did the damage in the reno fill back in yet?



pennstater2005 said:


> Not sure if the green up in last years partial reno was due to the Screaming Green or the prior urea apps


Got your sample I assume?


----------



## pennstater2005

samjonester said:


> Looking good! Did the damage in the reno fill back in yet?
> 
> 
> 
> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if the green up in last years partial reno was due to the Screaming Green or the prior urea apps
> 
> 
> 
> Got your sample I assume?
Click to expand...

Thanks! Got the sample pretty quickly actually. The KBG does seem to be slowly filling in. Hard to tell how much yet. I should've raked it out earlier in the year and it would've had more time.


----------



## pennstater2005

Put down urea with the Scott's whiz. Nothing much else to report. Leaves are falling.


----------



## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> Thanks! Got the sample pretty quickly actually. The KBG does seem to be slowly filling in. Hard to tell how much yet. I should've raked it out earlier in the year and it would've had more time.


I love that fertilizer. It's so balanced in terms of fast and slow release N, and is perfect for the early Fall application that osuturfman talks about. I was a bit late and dropped mine on 1 October. The grass has been so dark green for over a week now!


----------



## pennstater2005

Wife took this picture of a deer in the backyard. We live within the city limits and so this is a rare occurrence....


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


>


All I can focus on is that turf. It still has that dark green color. What are you doing to your soil? 
I can't wait to see what the yard looks like after you complete the other part(s) of this reno.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All I can focus on is that turf. It still has that dark green color. What are you doing to your soil?
> I can't wait to see what the yard looks like after you complete the other part(s) of this reno.
Click to expand...

Just urea. I don't do much to the yard as far as applications of anything. It'll be nice to see a larger section that same color!


----------



## pennstater2005

Nothing doing. I think I'm just about wrapped up with the exception of mulching leaves and maybe a last application of urea down the road when appropriate.

I think I'm in the very small minority (maybe only :lol of those who look forward to the break.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> I think I'm in the very small minority (maybe only ) of those who look forward to the break.


You have company. Between dragging hoses and seeing new weeds, I'm ready for the break. I do have to say, though, I am going to enjoy my last several mows of the year.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm in the very small minority (maybe only ) of those who look forward to the break.
> 
> 
> 
> You have company. Between dragging hoses and seeing new weeds, I'm ready for the break. I do have to say, though, I am going to enjoy my last several mows of the year.
Click to expand...

Agreed. My mow tonight was nice. Cooler temps, greener grass, and fall colors.


----------



## pennstater2005

I think I'm done. Where's my grass?


----------



## ericgautier

Good stuff! Increase those OM.


----------



## pennstater2005

ericgautier said:


> Good stuff! Increase those OM.


That took forever to mulch. And it was so thick in some spots I had to manually rake it around.

From today......



This makes me want to stay with the PRG/KBG mix @social port.


----------



## social port

Yeah, @pennstater2005 . Can't argue with that color - or the thickness. It looks great.
And you don't even really need to reseed. 
Why were ever considering TTTF


----------



## pennstater2005

Because @social port you make it look so good!!


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Because @social port you make it look so good!!


Thanks for the compliment. I'm remembering that it also had something to do with a lower water requirement :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because @social port you make it look so good!!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the compliment. I'm remembering that it also had something to do with a lower water requirement :lol:
Click to expand...

Oh yeah....that's right.


----------



## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> ericgautier said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good stuff! Increase those OM.
> 
> 
> 
> That took forever to mulch. And it was so thick in some spots I had to manually rake it around.
> 
> From today......
> 
> 
> 
> This makes me want to stay with the PRG/KBG mix social port.
Click to expand...

Looks a bit like my mix of PR/KBG/TF. In my yard too, the PR has recovered this past month from the Summer stress, and the lawn is as thick as it's going to be all year, now.


----------



## pennstater2005

Mulched the rest of the leaves in yesterday. I didn't notice any grass clippings so will probably apply the final app of urea. I know this is debatable but old habits die hard.

Now to winterize the equipment.


----------



## pennstater2005

Think my growing season might be over. Never did put down a winter app of urea. Haven't decided if I will. I probably should do it soon though, eh?


----------



## pennstater2005

The 2018 lawn season is over for me. I finished mulching up the last of the leaves. I'm skipping the winterizer this year. Goodnight lawn.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Goodnight lawn.


Wow, that was sudden.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Goodnight lawn.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that was sudden.
Click to expand...

It really was.


----------



## Apapknarf

Following for 2019. What are your plans for this year?


----------



## pennstater2005

Apapknarf said:


> Following for 2019. What are your plans for this year?


Another partial renovation about 2 or 2.5k. Same seed as last year. I was considering others but it's so nice and fills in with KBG in the mix. I took a week off work mid August for seed down. I was lucky to skip this year as everything would've washed out!

What are your plans?


----------



## pennstater2005

I can sort of see my grass now.


----------



## pennstater2005

Wasn't planning on it but put the prodiamine down. I just checked the soil temp for fun and it was 54 degrees everywhere. Plus, the Forsythia bush has buds that little yellow flowers are just starting to peek out from.

And you don't want the bush in full bloom by the time you get the pre emergent down. Good chance of rain tonight and tomorrow so today was the day!


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Wasn't planning on it but put the prodiamine down. I just checked the soil temp for fun and it was 54 degrees everywhere. Plus, the Forsythia bush has buds that little yellow flowers are just starting to peek out from.
> 
> And you don't want the bush in full bloom by the time you get the pre emergent down. Good chance of rain tonight and tomorrow so today was the day!


Earlier today I was thinking that it might be about that time for you :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't planning on it but put the prodiamine down. I just checked the soil temp for fun and it was 54 degrees everywhere. Plus, the Forsythia bush has buds that little yellow flowers are just starting to peek out from.
> 
> And you don't want the bush in full bloom by the time you get the pre emergent down. Good chance of rain tonight and tomorrow so today was the day!
> 
> 
> 
> Earlier today I was thinking that it might be about that time for you :thumbup:
Click to expand...

You thought right! I'm so glad I don't have to spray it either. I had it down in about ten minutes :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

I put down my prodiamine on Sunday evening. It rained but not as much as expected. I can still see little prills everywhere.

Rain is expected Friday here. Will I lose much effectiveness of the pre m with some of it sitting out there yet long?


----------



## g-man

Not much. Sun/UV breaks it down.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> Not much. Sun/UV breaks it down.


Ok. Thanks @g-man.


----------



## pennstater2005

I bought this today at my local garden center. Never heard of it. Looks good though. At $20 for 50# it seemed like a good deal. I'm saving it for my first application in a few weeks.


----------



## g-man

Do they list ingredients? They should per law.


----------



## pennstater2005

Only label is what is in picture.


----------



## pennstater2005

Well, this is what I'm starting with. Front yard is bad but I've slowly worked a few spots here and there. I'll be seeding the bare spots tomorrow. It's still awaiting an actual renovation.



And the back.....need to fix a few spots and have weeds here and there. In July will start the kill for the next section to be done.



No winterization was done but the fall blitz was.


----------



## Chris LI

@pennstater2005
Thanks for the photos showing "warts and all". It shows that it's not easy to hit the "Tier 3" of lawns and many of us have challenges to overcome. I'm constantly dealing with issues and am leery to post full shots due to bad spots, since so many on TLF have very beautiful lawns. I take photos of my trouble areas, but don't always post them, and should. Maybe others can learn from the issues that I'm dealing with.

What I find extra cool is that your next photo shows the progress you've made with you're backyard partial reno. It shows what is possible with some hard work. The color is really coming in nice and dark.

Thanks again, and I'll be following your journal.


----------



## social port

Chris LI said:


> The color is really coming in nice and dark.


I always notice that too. Such a great color.
I'm also interested in that Green Magic fert. Looks like an alternative to Milorganite.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Chris LI said:
> 
> 
> 
> The color is really coming in nice and dark.
> 
> 
> 
> I always notice that too. Such a great color.
> I'm also interested in that Green Magic fert. Looks like an alternative to Milorganite.
Click to expand...

The color is coming along pretty good. I've got a bit of chickweed in the lawn already though. I'm waiting for my lawn to thicken up like yours!!



Chris LI said:


> @pennstater2005
> Thanks for the photos showing "warts and all". It shows that it's not easy to hit the "Tier 3" of lawns and many of us have challenges to overcome. I'm constantly dealing with issues and am leery to post full shots due to bad spots, since so many on TLF have very beautiful lawns. I take photos of my trouble areas, but don't always post them, and should. Maybe others can learn from the issues that I'm dealing with.
> 
> What I find extra cool is that your next photo shows the progress you've made with you're backyard partial reno. It shows what is possible with some hard work. The color is really coming in nice and dark.
> 
> Thanks again, and I'll be following your journal.


You're welcome! I honestly don't plan on a Tier 3 lawn. I'm good somewhere in the middle. I have a fairly limited budget especially because they base our sewage bill off the water. So, a $200 water bill means a $200 sewage bill. It kills me!

It is a lot of work for a reno, even a partial one. And I'll do another small section again this fall. A lot of those bad spots you see, at least in the front, are areas I sprayed for weeds and there was almost no grass at all. And some other spots I planted seed that wasn't shade friendly....lesson learned. I bought more FF even though I'm not very fond of it's thin blades.

Thanks for following along and I'm watching yours as well :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

Got home from work and decided to use the dethatch rake to rough up the bad areas in the front. Going to stop and get topsoil after work tomorrow and take my time this week prepping the areas. Most likely after finishing raking tomorrow will get some glypho down. I mowed it first. No mow yet in the back. It's coming in slowly.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Most likely after finishing raking tomorrow will get some glypho down.


What is the gly for? I thought that you were going to begin the reno in July?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most likely after finishing raking tomorrow will get some glypho down.
> 
> 
> 
> What is the gly for? I thought that you were going to begin the reno in July?
Click to expand...

Just for the small areas in the front yard that have little to no grass. Want to make sure weeds are all dead.

Backyard reno is still on!


----------



## pennstater2005

Look at all that poa A. Lots of seed heads.


----------



## social port

My poa A is dark green. I cannot distinguish it from my bluegrass or my fescue. Any ideas on why Poa A is sometimes lite green vs dark? Are there different cultivars of Poa A?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> My poa A is dark green. I cannot distinguish it from my bluegrass or my fescue. Any ideas on why Poa A is sometimes lite green vs dark? Are there different cultivars of Poa A?


That's a good question. Not sure. My poa all seems to be very light green. It pulls easily though. I really don't feel like fighting poa :crying:


----------



## pennstater2005

New toy.....



Already have a 24" version but it's corded and I'm tired of dragging that around. This is way lighter as well. I liked the Ryobi line but too heavy.

This will be nice for a quick trim. The corded if I need a little extra length.


----------



## social port

@pennstater2005 very cool!
I have the corded one too, and it has been working for me since 2012. I've been thinking of upgrading because of the cord and (3-4?) extension cables.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 very cool!
> I have the corded one too, and it has been working for me since 2012. I've been thinking of upgrading because of the cord and (3-4?) extension cables.


I signed up for the Home Depot card and got $25 off so with tax here it was $67. Couldn't beat it!


----------



## pennstater2005

Seed, starter fert, and soil moist seed coat all mixed together.



And seed down with Greenview pellet mulch plus EZ tack straw. I hate spring seeding.


----------



## Chris LI

pennstater2005 said:


> Seed, starter fert, and soil moist seed coat all mixed together.
> 
> 
> 
> And seed down with Greenview pellet mulch plus EZ tack straw. I hate spring seeding.


Did you apply Tenacity?


----------



## pennstater2005

@Chris LI

I didn't. I sprayed glypho right before I seeded though. I did some areas in the back as well.

When I do the reno this fall I will spray tenacity after I seed.


----------



## pennstater2005

The backyard small spring seed. Rain expected tonight and a little wet snow. Will water in a day or two if it doesn't come.


----------



## pennstater2005

The front yard is actually looking halfway decent. I can't imagine what it'll look like with a reno.



The EZ straw with tack held up to last night's heavier downpours. That is a slope.


----------



## social port

@pennstater2005 , good luck with the germination. I'm excited :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 , good luck with the germination. I'm excited :thumbup:


Thanks! Fingers crossed. Raining now with rain forecast all week so that's some stress off as long as it doesn't go too nuts.


----------



## pennstater2005

I love these dusk pictures where the dark green stands out......



Pulled poa annua from this area. It's wet so it pulls easily. I know there's about a million seeds in there but it looks better with it out. Still some at the edge of the bed there. Too much to hand pull.


----------



## pennstater2005

So, not much grass is growing in the newly seeded areas. I think this may be because I applied a pre emergent beforehand :lol:

Some little seedlings have sprung up though so not all hope is lost. Typically I have great PRG germination within 5 days.

What the hell is wrong with me :sorry:


----------



## social port

Well, dang. That stinks. 
Is it too late to break the preM barrier and seed again?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Well, dang. That stinks.
> Is it too late to break the preM barrier and seed again?


Good question. Maybe, but I think I'm gonna wait and see how this plays out. If I seed again I think I'll have to wait for fall. What's that green turf paint called again? :nod:


----------



## g-man

I think you should wait. Prem does not prevent germination. It prevents the roots from establishing. If you are not seeing germination, then it is either 1)bad seeds, 2) low temps and 3) not enough moisture. Give it more time. If you still have seeds, get two red Solo cups, in one of the cups place a couple of cotton balls with seed and keep it moist in a sunny area. Don't try it with any other color .


----------



## Pete1313

@g-man, what is the second red solo cup for?


----------



## g-man

To fill it up and have a party. Let's have a party!


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> To fill it up and have a party. Let's have a party!


Sounds good to me! The pre m won't prevent germination but they do work to keep it from sprouting.

I've watered well, seed was fresh, and temps haven't gone much below 50. I do have some germination now but man is it slow so far. I think you might have nailed it with cooler temps though. I'm hoping anyway.


----------



## pennstater2005

Yea! I actually have some grass coming in now....


----------



## g-man

That post should start with "g-man was right, ..."


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> That post should start with "g-man was right, ..."


I don't know what you're talking about :?


----------



## pennstater2005

Anywhere I added topsoil germination is decent.



Where I didn't it's not so good.



Hence the reason to wait a few months per the label to seed on the prodiamine I used.


----------



## social port

Is it the greenview mulch that you used for topsoil?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Is it the greenview mulch that you used for topsoil?


The topsoil was Organic Valley. The seeding mulch was just to help keep the seed in place a little better and to keep it moist.

I just wasn't thinking. I'm kicking myself now!


----------



## pennstater2005

Renovated section not looking too bad for no fert yet. Might throw the Green Magic down tonight.


----------



## pennstater2005

Mowed and put down the Green Magic 18-5-9.


----------



## social port

I love fertilizer days.
BTW, your renovated section looks stripe-y


----------



## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> Mowed and put down the Green Magic 18-5-9.


Great closeup! Looks like MOP, urea, SCU, and maybe some other stuff (DAP??).


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> I love fertilizer days.
> BTW, your renovated section looks stripe-y


Some stripes but more weeds :evil: That Tenacity app lit up good though. Can't wait to hit it again!


----------



## pennstater2005

Green said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mowed and put down the Green Magic 18-5-9.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great closeup! Looks like MOP, urea, SCU, and maybe some other stuff (DAP??).
Click to expand...

Which ones are which? Any idea? It did look like a nice variety of stuff. Only orangic/synthetic around me. Its a Centerra product.


----------



## g-man

How is the overseed?


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> How is the overseed?


I'll get some pictures up later. I just seeded bare areas. Where I put new topsoil it's coming in pretty good but slower than normal. The areas with no topsoil are mostly bare but seedlings are present here and there.

As long as something come soon in to mow I'll be happy. Then I can re do it in the fall.


----------



## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> Green said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mowed and put down the Green Magic 18-5-9.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great closeup! Looks like MOP, urea, SCU, and maybe some other stuff (DAP??).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which ones are which? Any idea? It did look like a nice variety of stuff. Only orangic/synthetic around me. Its a Centerra product.
Click to expand...

The white looks like uncoated urea. The yellow is probably the SCU. The crystal looking or gray stuff is probably MOP. The black may be some type of ammonium phosphate, but I'm not familiar with that one. Not sure what the red is. Looks like maybe 7% of the 18% N may be coated, eyeballing it (slightly under half appears yellow). Edit: just saw your bag says 5.5. Guess I was close. What's that, around 28%? It's not clear what the "organic sources" means. Urea is an organic compound. Are they implying there's actual organic Nitrogen too? Maybe some of the black is biosolids?


----------



## pennstater2005

@Green I was thinking the same thing as far as the bio solid possibly being the darker prills. Wait and see if I notice results now.


----------



## pennstater2005

@g-man

Here's an area with fresh topsoil probably 3" deep.



Same area without topsoil.



I'm heading down to buy a little extra seed for the areas that are struggling. Fingers crossed.


----------



## social port

Wow, what a difference. Are you also picking up more topsoil?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Wow, what a difference. Are you also picking up more topsoil?


No. I probably should. There's grass in those areas. I'll probably just rough it up some more.


----------



## pennstater2005

Got some cracked corn for my kids to spread with their Scott's mini. They keep wanting to spread something so I figured this was cheapest and safe.


----------



## pennstater2005

Re seeded all the areas in the front after using the pitch fork to make little 1/4" holes everywhere. Then light seeding mulch and EZ straw finishing with rolling it in then water.


----------



## pennstater2005

Took this early in the morning.....





Tenacity is working. I still need to get a second app down.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Got some cracked corn for my kids to spread with their Scott's mini. They keep wanting to spread something so I figured this was cheapest and safe.


 Very cool :thumbup: I bet those are the kinds of things you remember - as dad and as son.


----------



## pennstater2005

Renovated area looking good. Can't wait to start the next section. Taking a couple weeks off work for it!


----------



## Pete1313

Quite a difference comparing the two areas!


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> Quite a difference comparing the two areas!


There really is. It's driving me nuts now!


----------



## pennstater2005

Sprayed 6 gallons of Triclopyr on mainly clover. Then followed up with Tenacity in the renovated section for a 3 week follow up app.


----------



## samjonester

That domination line from the deck :lol: can't wait to see the next reno!


----------



## social port

Yeah, that renovated section is looking really good.
Extra points for the Chuck Norris poster. :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

samjonester said:


> That domination line from the deck :lol: can't wait to see the next reno!


I'm pretty excited! A bit of that color is from blue dye although not much as I didn't put nearly enough in.



social port said:


> Yeah, that renovated section is looking really good.
> Extra points for the Chuck Norris poster. :thumbup:


Thanks! Yeah the poster is sweet and my kids get a kick out of it when I read it to them


----------



## pennstater2005

Got off a week of work in early-mid July so I'll start killing off the middle section of lawn around the 12th. A little earlier than I wanted but only week available.


----------



## pennstater2005

Front yard is very slowly trying to fill in. The area with the most topsoil, about three inches, looks the best. Although already has weeds!



The rest is so-so.







And this is where the excavator guy rolled through to dig and find the gas to hook up the guy across the street. At least it was a crappy part of the yard :lol:


----------



## Chris LI

Maybe some alfalfa pellets can help with the slow developing areas.


----------



## pennstater2005

Chris LI said:


> Maybe some alfalfa pellets can help with the slow developing areas.


I'm up for anything at this point. It's a bit depressing.


----------



## pennstater2005

Nothing to report. Lawn is chugging along ok. Renovated area looks great. Just waiting to start the next section :shout: One month til glypho day!!!!!! I ate some glypho in my Cheerios evidently as well this morning


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> ! I ate some glypho in my Cheerios evidently as well this morning


 :lol: That's what I'm talking about !!
Glad to hear things are on the up.


----------



## pennstater2005

Shot from above. Renovated section coming along nicely. Fertilized once. Probably won't fertilize again til fall.



Starting on the next section in just a few weeks! Same seed.


----------



## social port

that renovated section has been going strong all season. 
I never noticed how much shrubbery you have to maintain. I bet that cordless hedge trimmer is making things so much easier.


----------



## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> Shot from above. Renovated section coming along nicely. Fertilized once. Probably won't fertilize again til fall.
> 
> 
> 
> Starting on the next section in just a few weeks! Same seed.


Will be nice once the second half matches!


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> that renovated section has been going strong all season.
> I never noticed how much shrubbery you have to maintain. I bet that cordless hedge trimmer is making things so much easier.


I'm a sucker for adding perennials. The cordless hedge trimmer is something I should've bought years ago!



Green said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1560908657[/url] user_id=417]
> Shot from above. Renovated section coming along nicely. Fertilized once. Probably won't fertilize again til fall.
> 
> 
> 
> Starting on the next section in just a few weeks! Same seed.
> 
> 
> 
> Will be nice once the second half matches!
Click to expand...

Yes! Finally!


----------



## pennstater2005

Think I got some red thread.


----------



## social port

Do you have that grass laying on the kitchen counter? That sounds familiar. Seems to happen almost every time I mow.

Sorry about the fungus. Is it affecting the nice reno area in the backyard?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Do you have that grass laying on the kitchen counter? That sounds familiar. Seems to happen almost every time I mow.
> 
> Sorry about the fungus. Is it affecting the nice reno area in the backyard?


Laying on the stove  Yeah it's in the reno area but I'm not doing any fungicides this year either. I'm not applying any nitrogen either until fall. I need to mow and hopefully that and a few dry days here will ease it up.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Yeah it's in the reno area but I'm not doing any fungicides this year either


Well, welcome to the club. Taking some hits and hoping for the best.
It stinks that the fungus is in the reno, though. It has been looking so good.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah it's in the reno area but I'm not doing any fungicides this year either
> 
> 
> 
> Well, welcome to the club. Taking some hits and hoping for the best.
> It stinks that the fungus is in the reno, though. It has been looking so good.
Click to expand...

I think it's gonna get worse. Higher temps and humidity expected next week. As long as it doesn't kill it all I'll be ok.


----------



## pennstater2005

Sprayed a WBG/WBG-CCO combo with spreader sticker and dye to just hit all the random garbage. Skipped the middle of the backyard since it will be getting the glypho treatment here in a few weeks.


----------



## pennstater2005

The seed mix I'll be using. Nearly the same as last year. Infusion PRG is new.



Seed from 2017


----------



## social port

How did that WBG / WBG combo work out for you? Good response?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> How did that WBG / WBG combo work out for you? Good response?


I was just looking around last night and noticed some weeds curling up pretty good. I'll have to look closer and report back.


----------



## pennstater2005

Sprayed Bayer 6 month weed control along ditch line and Sedgehammer after that. I had extra Sedgehammer so I went down and sprayed the neighbors sedges as well. He has a lawn guy but always has issue with yellow nutsedge.


----------



## pennstater2005

Barring any rain later......today is kill day :thumbup:

Can't wait to get started!!!!!!!


----------



## pennstater2005

pennstater2005 said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did that WBG / WBG combo work out for you? Good response?
> 
> 
> 
> I was just looking around last night and noticed some weeds curling up pretty good. I'll have to look closer and report back.
Click to expand...

It knocked about everything out with the exception of the clover still trying to hang around. The sedgehammer destroyed the yellow nutsedge I put it on.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Barring any rain later......today is kill day :thumbup:
> 
> Can't wait to get started!!!!!!!


Congratulations, @pennstater2005! Exciting day.


----------



## pennstater2005

Running behind on my glypho app. Ordered seed today from EH Griffith. Here's the mix. Infusion PRG is new and one of the KBG cultivars is too. After @ktgrok's experiment I think I'm probably just going to go with a light layer of peat moss with a heavy layer of tackifier (m-binder).

16.66% Everglade Kentucky Bluegrass 
16.66% Everest Kentucky Bluegrass
16.66% Nuglade Kentucky Bluegrass
16.66% Amazing A+ Perennial Ryegrass
16.66% Homerun Perennial Ryegrass 
16.66% Infusion Perennial Ryegrass


----------



## pennstater2005

Got 15# of seed today. Still need to order m-binder. Hoping to get glypho app down barring any rain or too hot temps. Need to get it soon as next week is forecasted to be too hot to spray herbicides....at least when I can do it.


----------



## pennstater2005

Okay, time to die lawn :twisted:



Took 9 gallons exactly to cover this 2500 sq ft area. Went with the heavier dose per label of (per gallon) of 5 tbsp glypho/2 tsp NIS, and a crap ton of blue dye (not per label :lol: )


----------



## g-man

No flip flops this time?


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> No flip flops this time?


Nope. Guess I've matured somewhat in the lawn game :lol: That or getting blue dye out of flip flops is the worst!


----------



## Green

Don't want to kill your toes.

Nice square edges.


----------



## pennstater2005

Green said:


> Don't want to kill your toes.
> 
> Nice square edges.


Thanks! I also finished a dry well today to catch driveway runoff. It's there for in the future when I cut a channel drain into the asphalt although it will take water in as is also.


----------



## pennstater2005

Plan for this week is to slowly work the grass down to scalping level and then bag it all. And then de thatching it by hand :shock: Although for this area I may consider renting one. Especially with the heat coming up around here.


----------



## social port

:lol: 
nice pics, @pennstater2005. The kill area looks great, too.


----------



## Green

Do you have a Groundskeeper rake? If not, go to Ace and get one. It's that good!


----------



## pennstater2005

I forgot to line the dry well with landscape fabric. Not shoveling that stone back out. I will put perforated plastic on top to keep that surface soil from penetrating into the gravel pack.


----------



## pennstater2005

Dry well is finished. Leaving the stone in place until I can connect in a channel drain.

Now to scalp that dying grass!!


----------



## pennstater2005

Down to about 1.5" and going more! I have to borrow the neighbors mower to bag all this.


----------



## social port

Dealing with all of those clippings is my least favorite part of renovating and overseeding.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Dealing with all of those clippings is my least favorite part of renovating and overseeding.


Mine too. The bagger on the push mower made pretty quick work of it though as a vacuum.

A few more pics....


----------



## pennstater2005

Four days into kill....,



Hoping to rent dethatch power rake this Saturday.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Looking good. I don't know why, but the look of a dense, dead lawn always seems oddly appealing to me.


----------



## g-man

@ken-n-nancy really? You can still Reno this year.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

@pennstater2005 No going back now. Looks like you got a good even gly application.


----------



## Green

SNOWBOB11 said:


> pennstater2005 No going back now. Looks like you got a good even gly application.


And the edges are just as square as I predicted.

How far into last year's Reno did you kill?


----------



## pennstater2005

ken-n-nancy said:


> Looking good. I don't know why, but the look of a dense, dead lawn always seems oddly appealing to me.


It definitely makes my other grass look better 



SNOWBOB11 said:


> @pennstater2005 No going back now. Looks like you got a good even gly application.


I used a lot of blue dye. A lot.



Green said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> pennstater2005 No going back now. Looks like you got a good even gly application.
> 
> 
> 
> And the edges are just as square as I predicted.
> 
> How far into last year's Reno did you kill?
Click to expand...

I was looking and I got right onto it. I may go a few more inches if need be. I don't want a strip of old grass in there.


----------



## pennstater2005

Browning up nicely


----------



## rob13psu

pennstater2005 said:


> Browning up nicely


The previous renovation is looking great.


----------



## pennstater2005

rob13psu said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Browning up nicely
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The previous renovation is looking great.
Click to expand...

Thanks Rob! It's getting hit by fungus but overall doing good.


----------



## Chris LI

Nice! Last year's reno for you was a great side by side comparison of new vs. old types of grass. This year is the new vs. new baby grass. It will be a good comparison of baby grass with 1 year old turf right next to it. Do you plan on changing any timing/techniques/fertility/amendments this year, compared to last year's reno? Also, the pin straight lines of the borders of the reno, give a very professional touch.


----------



## pennstater2005

Chris LI said:


> Nice! Last year's reno for you was a great side by side comparison of new vs. old types of grass. This year is the new vs. new baby grass. It will be a good comparison of baby grass with 1 year old turf right next to it. Do you plan on changing any timing/techniques/fertility/amendments this year, compared to last year's reno? Also, the pin straight lines of the borders of the reno, give a very professional touch.


It will be cool to see the new grass next to the older stand. Don't know if I'll change anything or not. I'll have an improved water setup this year with connected impacts and a timer with rain sensor.


----------



## pennstater2005

Getting crispy!


----------



## Pete1313

Such a pretty sight! Looks like a good kill!


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> Such a pretty sight! Looks like a good kill!


Yeah it turned out good except I killed a small spot on the prior reno! Plan was to rent a dethatcher tomorrow but with temps in the mid 90s I'm going to pass on that.


----------



## pennstater2005

Called this morning to reserve the dethatcher. It's gonna be 90 degrees Saturday and Sunday here but I get it for both days for the price of one day so I'll try and get most done early each morning.

I'll get some pictures up when I get it cooking!

Lawn this evening. Round 2 of gly tomorrow.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Called this morning to reserve the dethatcher. It's gonna be 90 degrees Saturday and Sunday here but I get it for both days for the price of one day so I'll try and get most done early each morning.
> 
> I'll get some pictures up when I get it cooking!
> 
> Lawn this evening. Round 2 of gly tomorrow.


That looks great, pennstater. Nice work!


----------



## Chris LI

Oh yeah, that's good and dead. That photo shows a great perspective. You can see how nice last year's reno is compared to the existing lawn on the other side of the kill.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Is the little piece of dead grass on the previous reno from a gly footprint?


----------



## TreyDoc

Looks kinda sexy . . . I can't pick up the dethatcher here till next Friday. Guess there's a bunch of reno's around here. Can't wait to see how it turns out for ya.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1564103215[/url] user_id=417]
> Called this morning to reserve the dethatcher. It's gonna be 90 degrees Saturday and Sunday here but I get it for both days for the price of one day so I'll try and get most done early each morning.
> 
> I'll get some pictures up when I get it cooking!
> 
> Lawn this evening. Round 2 of gly tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That looks great, pennstater. Nice work!
Click to expand...

Thanks!



Chris LI said:


> Oh yeah, that's good and dead. That photo shows a great perspective. You can see how nice last year's reno is compared to the existing lawn on the other side of the kill.


Yeah the difference is huge. Now I can't wait to the last section!



SNOWBOB11 said:


> Is the little piece of dead grass on the previous reno from a gly footprint?


Maybe. I was still figuring out the exact direction of the TeeJet at that point. Now I gotta make sure water hits that tiny spot :lol:



TreyDoc said:


> Looks kinda sexy . . . I can't pick up the dethatcher here till next Friday. Guess there's a bunch of reno's around here. Can't wait to see how it turns out for ya.


It is nice to look at :thumbup: I'll be watching yours as well. I was just in Erie at Presque Isle recently.


----------



## pennstater2005

Dethatcher rented! What a time saver. I still have two more depths to go if needed. I want to save some dead stuff for a bed. Less peat should be needed. More pics to come :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

Made one full pass now will go other direction. I may not need to go deeper. There is a lot of soil exposed now.


----------



## TreyDoc

Nice man. Looks good. How much did you end up removing? What depth did you end up going to?


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Nice man. Looks good. How much did you end up removing? What depth did you end up going to?


Not sure of depth. It has 6 different depth levels 6 being the deepest. I'm on 4. I'll try one more. I'm only about halfway done. I'm going to go the other direction now and see what I can get. Borrowed the neighbors bagger mower to use as a vacuum. I filled it once after 4 passes. I'll probably fill it up at least 7 or 8 times I'm guessing.


----------



## TreyDoc

Looks good. Now, if I can just get my youngins to help out . . .


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Looks good. Now, if I can just get my youngins to help out . . .


Mine didn't last too long :lol: I think they raked up one line and then wanted to go inside!


----------



## iowa jim

I went the other way when i did my reno last fall, i triple areated, put my dethatcher on with 200 lbs. of weight, took a old gate to use as a drag with 100lbs, of weight. Seed to soil contact is very important but i will admit that i had trouble holding the peat in place when we got rain. So your thinking maybe right on and save some money on peat moss as a bonus. good luck


----------



## TreyDoc

@iowa jim Did you need to level again after dragging? Or did you just seed and roll after?


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Made one full pass now will go other direction. I may not need to go deeper. There is a lot of soil exposed now.


Go pennstater!! Best time of the year!


----------



## iowa jim

TreyDoc said:


> @iowa jim Did you need to level again after dragging? Or did you just seed and roll after?


I had some bumps and humps and everything i did helped smooth out the lawn. the old fence gate i used for my final passes really helped smooth it out. I also used a roller to go over the seed for better seed to soil contact.


----------



## pennstater2005

@social port It was so much easier than manually doing that two years ago. I'm still sweating my a$$ off!

@iowa jim I did the same two years ago. I have a few areas left I'll need to do by hand plus level it a bit.







This was almost as bad as spreading peat moss!


----------



## TreyDoc

Sexy. The lawn too.


----------



## Pete1313

The reno prep is looking awesome @pennstater2005! I have to say though, it's not a true Pennstater renovation unless there is a pic of you doing it in sandals!  keep the updates coming.


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Sexy. The lawn too.


 :lol:



Pete1313 said:


> The reno prep is looking awesome @pennstater2005! I have to say though, it's not a true Pennstater renovation unless there is a pic of you doing it in sandals!  keep the updates coming.


Thanks! I gotta say burning the lawn was more fun than de-thatching it! But I agree......sandals will have to make an appearance for this to actually count


----------



## pennstater2005

Can I damage the dethatcher by going too low into the dirt?

Also, I found this lying in the yard. I couldn't find any place on the dethatcher where it might go.


----------



## TreyDoc

Looks like one of the eyes that the cord goes through. I know the dethatcher cord doesn't go up the handle, but maybe from mower? The good thing about it being a rental, is they'll take care of it with no worries to you.


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Looks like one of the eyes that the cord goes through. I know the dethatcher cord doesn't go up the handle, but maybe from mower? The good thing about it being a rental, is they'll take care of it with no worries to you.


Checked it over. Couldn't find anything. I just cleaned it up, topped it off, and will bring it with me in case.

I ended up doing another parallel and then perpendicular pass then vacuumed up the remains. There are still a few places I'll have to use the manual thatch rake but not many.


----------



## pennstater2005

Also, I prefer the gas dethatcher versus the manual one. Sorry buddy.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

That's about as good a seed bed as you can get.


----------



## pennstater2005

SNOWBOB11 said:


> That's about as good a seed bed as you can get.


Thanks! The equipment has made it much easier. I'm still not looking forward to the thatch rake. Just a few spots though. And I need to do some leveling. Planning on Tuesday for a 2nd app of gly. It's been too hot lately or I just haven't felt like doing it.


----------



## pennstater2005

Got 20# of seed now and just purchased 25# of tackifier (m binder). That way I'll have some leftover if needed.....of both actually. All I need is peat. (Already have soil moist seed coat, Tenacity, and start fert)

I was going to do topsoil to level but will wait until a few days before seed down as I am afraid it will all wash away or at least turn to all mud.

*** Wanted to add that I just received a reply from Nature's Seed, where I get the tackifier from, and they note that most folks put this directly on top of the seed water in and then use peat moss. I put it on top of the peat last time. I might go lightly over the seed and then also lightly over the peat.


----------



## pennstater2005

The rain really opened this up for me too see what dead grass I need to get out.



Almost looks like it's already seeded with some peat moss on top. I wish!


----------



## Green

@pennstater2005, I think you said you don't irrigate at all past germination, is that correct? If so, how is your year one renovation grass holding up right now? Looks good in the photos.

By the way, you also have a Craftsman MTD/Briggs engine model mower?


----------



## samjonester

Almost time!!!


----------



## pennstater2005

Green said:


> @pennstater2005, I think you said you don't irrigate at all past germination, is that correct? If so, how is your year one renovation grass holding up right now? Looks good in the photos.
> 
> By the way, you also have a Craftsman MTD/Briggs engine model mower?


I don't irrigate once established. The prior reno was from 2017 and it is doing good. Nice and thick. Some poa a present in late spring early summer but I hand pulled most.

My mower is a Husqvarna rider. The push in the pictures is my neighbors. He let me borrow it to vacuum/bag all the dead clippings as I was dethatching.



samjonester said:


> Almost time!!!


Yea buddy  I just want to get started!!


----------



## TreyDoc

Looks great m8. I'm looking to you on how to spread the M-Binder. How long did it take for you to finish with the dethatcher?


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Looks great m8. I'm looking to you on how to spread the M-Binder. How long did it take for you to finish with the dethatcher?


Using my Earthway spreader. I used it last time basically wide open and then had to bounce it a bit, but it did spread evenly. I put it on the peat moss (not sure why) but this time, at the advice of the place I bought it, will put directly on seed then peat on top.

I may use a little seeding mulch as well.


----------



## pennstater2005

@TreyDoc Oh and I probably spent about two hours actual running the de thatcher.


----------



## TreyDoc

Sounds good. I'm trying to guesstimate how long I'll need it for. Thanks for the info on the M-binder, I wasn't sure if a spreader would work, or if I'd be doing it by hand.


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Sounds good. I'm trying to guesstimate how long I'll need it for. Thanks for the info on the M-binder, I wasn't sure if a spreader would work, or if I'd be doing it by hand.


I did 2500 sq ft. Two passes each of lengthwise and width wise. Vacuuming up dead stuff in between. I did this over two days. I rented it Saturday and then got Sunday as a free day. Had to have it back early Monday at 8.


----------



## pennstater2005

Manual thatching now......got a helper though!



This is why I'll need a second app of glyphosate. Gonna wait till just a day or two until seed down.


----------



## social port

Is that nutsedge coming up? I can't really tell from the picture, so just a guess.

I'm loving all the bare dirt I am seeing!


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Is that nutsedge coming up? I can't really tell from the picture, so just a guess.
> 
> I'm loving all the bare dirt I am seeing!


Looks like nutsedge to me too. Yep lots of bare dirt. And more now because I'm in the process of taking out some big humps and tomorrow will be getting topsoil to level. I'll be using the 3 foot landscape rake for that.


----------



## TreyDoc

Nice man, making me jealous.


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Nice man, making me jealous.


Thanks! Too bad that dethatcher couldn't have leveled at the same time. Too much physical labor for me :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

Stopped and got some topsoil for tomorrow. I'm whooped.


----------



## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that nutsedge coming up? I can't really tell from the picture, so just a guess.
> 
> I'm loving all the bare dirt I am seeing!
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like nutsedge to me too. Yep lots of bare dirt. And more now because I'm in the process of taking out some big humps and tomorrow will be getting topsoil to level. I'll be using the 3 foot landscape rake for that.
Click to expand...

I think so, too.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> TreyDoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice man, making me jealous.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! Too bad that dethatcher couldn't have leveled at the same time. Too much physical labor for me :lol:
Click to expand...

Did the dethathcer at least have a beer holder next to the handlebar?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TreyDoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice man, making me jealous.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! Too bad that dethatcher couldn't have leveled at the same time. Too much physical labor for me :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the dethathcer at least have a beer holder next to the handlebar?
Click to expand...

Sadly, it did not. I had to walk a long distance to get a sip of beer.


----------



## TreyDoc

Seeding soon? I'm getting a shower while running it. I needed it too . . .


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Seeding soon? I'm getting a shower while running it. I needed it too . . .


Hopefully this Saturday. Couple more hours days here then a cool down. I'm not ready anyway. Still have 25 bags of topsoil to finish leveling with. Yuck.


----------



## pennstater2005

A little break....


----------



## g-man

Break? you will have 2weeks for a break after that seed is in the soil. Get back to work! :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> Break? you will have 2weeks for a break after that seed is in the soil. Get back to work! :lol:


But I'm tired


----------



## pennstater2005

Glad I didn't seed yet. Came home to this!

https://youtu.be/m3M0kxzZ4RU


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Glad I didn't seed yet. Came home to this!


Ugh. That site brings back bad memories from last fall. The year of the washouts.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad I didn't seed yet. Came home to this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh. That site brings back bad memories from last fall. The year of the washouts.
Click to expand...

I remember that. Hope there isn't a repeat of that this year. I plan on using some tube sand to guide the heavy water from the driveway another direction.


----------



## pennstater2005

Another downpour!



Extra bag of rock right in front of the dry well to try and slow it down.


----------



## TreyDoc

Sorry to see I'm not the only one the weathers messing with in PA . . .


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Sorry to see I'm not the only one the weathers messing with in PA . . .


You've been getting pounded in Erie then? We've had about 4" in two days.


----------



## TreyDoc

We only got 2.5". We did get to see some pretty cool waterspouts, though.


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> We only got 2.5". We did get to see some pretty cool waterspouts, though.


Nice! You're pretty close to the lake?


----------



## TreyDoc

Yup. Bout 1/2 a mile away. Great for fishing and hanging out, but nowhere near as good as the peninsula for swimming.


----------



## pennstater2005

So, the guys who tore up my front yard for a gas line seeded and stared yesterday, which I'm fine with. Would Tenacity over the straw be effective or worthwhile. That or some gly cause there were definitely weeds there. I didn't know they were coming :evil:


----------



## social port




----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


>


Oh I was cool with it. It's the front. I plan on nuking it in two years anyway :thumbup:


----------



## TreyDoc

I'd grab the straw and remove everywhere they seeded. Nat Fuel came 3 times in 11 months. The first is when I believe Poa Triv was introduced to my yard. Most of the Triv was along and spreading from the line they seeded and covered. I removed the dirt from the second time they came when no one was home. Third, I told them not to touch anything when they were done.

Hope mine is/was an isolated incident.


----------



## pennstater2005

Rolled in the seed and also to level. Then sprayed some glyphosate. I'm sure their seed is top notch.


----------



## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> Rolled in the seed and also to level. Then sprayed some glyphosate. I'm sure their seed is top notch.


Tenacity does sound like a good idea if you're up (down?) for it. I would.


----------



## pennstater2005

Green said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rolled in the seed and also to level. Then sprayed some glyphosate. I'm sure their seed is top notch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tenacity does sound like a good idea if you're up (down?) for it. I would.
Click to expand...

I sprayed glyphosate last night. Can I spray Tenacity today over the gly?


----------



## pennstater2005

Up bright and early to spray second round of glyphosate on back reno. Not my favorite thing to do, especially this early, but it needs done.


----------



## g-man

@pennstater2005 yes you can still spray tenacity. It might work better and I've sprayed the day after seed in the past.

OSU field day

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1158873965143744513


----------



## pennstater2005

Thanks @g-man. I'll be spraying Tenacity this afternoon. Then I need to finish a bit of leveling with the topsoil I have on hand.


----------



## Green

g-man said:


> pennstater2005 yes you can still spray tenacity. It might work better and I've sprayed the day after seed in the past.
> 
> OSU field day
> https://twitter.com/ZaneRaudenbush/status/115887396514374451[mention]pennstater200


And I have sprayed Tenacity 4 or 5 days after seed down (with ryegrass seed) when the very first green seedling or two was stRting to pop up. It was fine. Am I recommending that as the way to do it? No. But it was ok once so far.


----------



## pennstater2005

Got it leveled and sprayed glyphosate over the new topsoil. It's ready for tomorrow.

Put Tenacity down out and also put down a bit more seed. Might throw out some seeding mulch too as I messed up the straw.


----------



## TreyDoc

Congratz man, it looks fantastic. Can't wait to see the babies. You gonna be watching over with a flashlight?


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Congratz man, it looks fantastic. Can't wait to see the babies. You gonna be watching over with a flashlight?


No flashlight here but I'll be looking closely this week!

Getting prepped for seed now!


----------



## pennstater2005

Roughing up the soil that got hardened by the rains. I'm mixing up the seed, starter fertilizer, and soil moist seed coat now.


----------



## social port

Happy seed down day, @pennstater2005!


----------



## rob13psu

Woo! Good luck!


----------



## pennstater2005

Just some pics as I go.....













Gonna roll it in next. Then tack, water, peat, tack, water. Or something like that :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

Thanks @social port and @rob13psu !!!


----------



## pennstater2005

Seed rolled in. Tenacity time. Taking a beer break.


----------



## g-man

Remember to do the tenacity before the mulch. And that can needs a koozie.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> Remember to do the tenacity before the mulch. And that can needs a koozie.


Definitely! And my stupid Bud Light Lime cans are tall and skinny. Don't really fit my TLF koozie :twisted:


----------



## pennstater2005

Tenacity down.....



Tack next....


----------



## pennstater2005

Tack in place and on me.....





Saved half the tack to go over the peat.


----------



## pennstater2005

Got peat spread although my wife made a run for three more bales. That will be 8 across 2500 square feet. It's pretty thin.


----------



## social port

Lookin' good :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

Finished peat with more tack on top. Hope it holds.


----------



## JDgreen18

pennstater2005 said:


> Got peat spread although my wife made a run for three more bales. That will be 8 across 2500 square feet. It's pretty thin.


Ha I only had 9.5 bales and made it work for 3300 st....looking good man. Good luck on no washouts....


----------



## pennstater2005

JDgreen18 said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got peat spread although my wife made a run for three more bales. That will be 8 across 2500 square feet. It's pretty thin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ha I only had 9.5 bales and made it work for 3300 st....looking good man. Good luck on no washouts....
Click to expand...

Thanks! How the heck did you make it go that far?!


----------



## pennstater2005

Watered in the tackifier and got everything cleaned up. I'm beat! Off and on all day. Tomorrow I'll set up the sprinklers and timer. On vacation all week so I get to baby it for a bit :nod:


----------



## JDgreen18

pennstater2005 said:


> JDgreen18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got peat spread although my wife made a run for three more bales. That will be 8 across 2500 square feet. It's pretty thin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ha I only had 9.5 bales and made it work for 3300 st....looking good man. Good luck on no washouts....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks! How the heck did you make it go that far?!
Click to expand...

Lots of practice. Lol I have a system I open the bag and put it out in a row. Then I take my metal rake and move the bigger piles around. Then I flip it over to smooth it out. I can get a nice thin layer with this technique.


----------



## pennstater2005

JDgreen18 said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JDgreen18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ha I only had 9.5 bales and made it work for 3300 st....looking good man. Good luck on no washouts....
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! How the heck did you make it go that far?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lots of practice. Lol I have a system I open the bag and put it out in a row. Then I take my medal rake and move the bigger piles around. Then I flip it over to smooth it out. I can get a nice thin layer with this technique.
Click to expand...

That is impressive! I wanted a metal tined rake but only had a plastic one to work with. Really what I wanted was the Groundskeeper II rake but maybe another year


----------



## pennstater2005

My wife took a video of me spreading the tackifier. Yes, I was running because it tasted terrible and I was ready to just be done :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWm7_mPqU4s&feature=youtu.be


----------



## pennstater2005

Been raining steady but no downpours.


----------



## Mrotatori

@pennstater2005 best of luck. I put my seed down on Monday. What are the red marker flags for?


----------



## pennstater2005

@Mrotatori Thanks and same to you! The flags help my young ones to stay off that area. Doesn't always work.  It's just grass though!


----------



## pennstater2005

Man perennial ryegrass germinates fast!


----------



## social port

:yahoo: @pennstater2005!!


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Lookin' good :thumbup:


Thanks!


----------



## pennstater2005

Haven't had to water much at all yet due to the rain. Was still moist this morning and then afternoon rains were gentle but enough. Still moistened so I'll check in the morning. Rain predicted for tomorrow too. Save me on the water/sewage bill!

I've been watering the two rainbird area's for about 10 minutes each and then hand watering the section they don't get which takes about 5 more minutes. It's working out well so far. Until the wife has to work. Then I gotta call my Dad. I'm sure he'll love that :lol:


----------



## TreyDoc

Gratz on the babies!


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Gratz on the babies!


Thanks :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

Had a wash out. No pics because I plugged my ears laying face down in the bed waiting for it to end.

Pics came after. We re-seeded a bit and then a little extra peat.


----------



## pennstater2005

Torrential rain....it's gone.


----------



## social port

Dang. Is the water running off and collecting in that area behind the bushes?


----------



## pennstater2005

Yes. Most of the peat is gone. Some grass had already germinated and is still there. To be safe tomorrow I'm going to get 10# of seed, albeit different cultivars, and put straw down.

Because of the grade of my yard the peat just seems to get washed away. My neighbor had some work done with straw and the grass is coming up nice and no straw washed away.


----------



## social port

That is a knife in the stomach.
I'm wishing better luck to you.


----------



## Mrotatori

Sorry to see this. You still have time. I wish the best for your Reno.


----------



## pennstater2005

Thanks guys. Tomorrow will be cleanup and re application of at least some seed.


----------



## Chris LI

Sorry to hear about your plight. I like peat moss for better germination, but maybe you could try seeding mulch (Penn Mulch, Seed Accelerator by Pennington, Covergrow by Profile, etc.) for the sloped area. It is helpful to resist washouts. I've used them with some success. You could spread it on top of the peat moss for insurance.


----------



## pennstater2005

Chris LI said:


> Sorry to hear about your plight. I like peat moss for better germination, but maybe you could try seeding mulch (Penn Mulch, Seed Accelerator by Pennington, Covergrow by Profile, etc.) for the sloped area. It is helpful to resist washouts. I've used them with some success. You could spread it on top of the peat moss for insurance.


Thanks. I have some of the seeding mulch and may need to consider it.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Sorry to see that happen @pennstater2005. It's a gut wrenching feeling seeing your hard work wash away in a matter of minutes. We all know you'll dust yourself off get back at it and it will turn out great when your done.


----------



## pennstater2005

Thanks @SNOWBOB11! As @g-man said "failure is not an option".


----------



## JDgreen18

Oh man wash outs are the worst do you have enough seed to do a redo


----------



## pennstater2005

JDgreen18 said:


> Oh man wash outs are the worst do you have enough seed to do a redo


Nope. But I can get very similar seed close by. The actual place I bought it from is an hour and a half away.


----------



## pennstater2005

A few pics from this morning....





There is a lot of seed in the peat. I bought 8# of seed today and bought 10 bales of straw. I'm not doing anything right now but I'm ready. Cleanup today.


----------



## g-man

These are pictures of the mulch that escape? How does the rest of the area looks like?


----------



## pennstater2005

Yes. Here's a picture of how much mulch came out with the seed. It's covered up a little and there's another smaller pile as well.


----------



## pennstater2005

I estimated it was probably 3-4 bales.


----------



## samjonester

UGH!! So sorry! That last pic shows a bit of a green haze from germination. I hope the reseed effort goes well.


----------



## pennstater2005

samjonester said:


> UGH!! So sorry! That last pic shows a bit of a green haze from germination. I hope the reseed effort goes well.


Thanks. There is a green hue over the entire renovation. Hopefully I won't need much seed. Thunderstorms predicted the next few days though :evil:


----------



## samjonester

It doesn't take long for a grass baby to establish roots that can weather a storm! I tracked this in my reno last year and by time top growth was visible, there were already inch long roots. Did you end up going 100% KBG like the other half?


----------



## pennstater2005

samjonester said:


> It doesn't take long for a grass baby to establish roots that can weather a storm! I tracked this in my reno last year and by time top growth was visible, there were already inch long roots. Did you end up going 100% KBG like the other half?


I remember that root. The other area is 50/50 KBG/PRG and this is as well. I'm thankful I had some grass rooted enough to hang in.


----------



## Mark B

Heartbreaker to see the washout, sorry man! Love your attitude "I'm not doing anything right now but I'm ready". Brilliant &#128077;&#127996; best wishes


----------



## pennstater2005

TheWhiteWizard said:


> Heartbreaker to see the washout, sorry man! Love your attitude "I'm not doing anything right now but I'm ready". Brilliant 👍🏼 best wishes


Appreciate it. Anything growing in your pots yet?


----------



## Alex1389

Unfortunate on the washout. But you started early enough so you'll get this going and looking good. Good luck!


----------



## pennstater2005

Alex1389 said:


> Unfortunate on the washout. But you started early enough so you'll get this going and looking good. Good luck!


Thank you!


----------



## pennstater2005

Always cool too see the grass coming out of the seed.


----------



## pennstater2005

Picture from right now.....



Most of it looks like rye. I'm thinking about spreading the 4# of original seed I have left. I also have the straw for cover. As @g-man stated any heavy rains could run under and still wash seed away.

I think though there's enough ryegrass now to assist in less seed wash out. If I wait too much longer I'm afraid I'll be pushing it to get KBG truly established before winter.


----------



## g-man

@pennstater2005 I would not drop more prg. Do you have kbg only seed? How big is this area?


----------



## ericgautier

pennstater2005 said:


> Torrential rain....it's gone.


Sorry to see this.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> @pennstater2005 I would not drop more prg. Do you have kbg only seed? How big is this area?


I did but some KBG seed only but it's a VNS meaning old cultivars. But it's fresh and no crop seed. The area is 2500 square feet.


----------



## pennstater2005

ericgautier said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Torrential rain....it's gone.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to see this.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Not a total loss though. There is some grass!


----------



## pennstater2005

Neighbors area covered with straw. Straw held it in place considerably better than my peat.


----------



## pennstater2005

These sandbags have made a big difference. I can't imagine how much more would've washed out. The water rushes down my driveway.


----------



## Mark B

pennstater2005 said:


> TheWhiteWizard said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heartbreaker to see the washout, sorry man! Love your attitude "I'm not doing anything right now but I'm ready". Brilliant 👍🏼 best wishes
> 
> 
> 
> Appreciate it. Anything growing in your pots yet?
Click to expand...

Yes mate, just some tiny babies so far


----------



## pennstater2005

Well if I don't use the straw the kids found a use for it.


----------



## Jtgorman75

I feel your pain with washouts. Second straight day of washouts for me. I'm hoping what's left will germinate soon...


----------



## pennstater2005

Jtgorman75 said:


> I feel your pain with washouts. Second straight day of washouts for me. I'm hoping what's left will germinate soon...


I hope so too. If not, all we can do is get back at it! With all the work we put in you gotta get something to grow :lol:


----------



## TreyDoc

I'm new at this, but I think it looks great. You'll get everything squared away. Plus, looks like the free labor is ready to throw some more seed with some straw!


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> I'm new at this, but I think it looks great. You'll get everything squared away. Plus, looks like the free labor is ready to throw some more seed with some straw!


I'm still learning too. And yes they're definitely be ready to throw straw!


----------



## pennstater2005

Still coming in.......



It's tough though because I don't know whether the KBG will come in due to the wash outs.


----------



## pennstater2005

Decide to just get after it today.....

Seed, tack, and straw.


----------



## aaronchristopherbake

Second time is sure to be the charm.


----------



## Jtgorman75

Radar in Western PA looks ugly. Hope you faired ok..


----------



## social port

It looks like you covered the entire reno area in straw. Am I seeing that correctly?
I have had many areas that look like your 8:17 photos that fill in beautifully over time.


----------



## pennstater2005

aaronchristopherbake said:


> Second time is sure to be the charm.


Man I hope so :twisted:



Jtgorman75 said:


> Radar in Western PA looks ugly. Hope you faired ok..


It does but somehow most of it has been missing me. It is raining just sort of lightly right now.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> It looks like you covered the entire reno area in straw. Am I seeing that correctly?
> I have had many areas that look like your 8:17 photos that fill in beautifully over time.


I did. There is a possibility of heavy thunderstorms all the way through Thursday now. I didn't feel like waiting that long to get KBG seed down. Most of what germinated was PRG. I saw a lot of KBG seeds washed out in the peat that I scooped up.


----------



## social port

Good luck, pennstater :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Good luck, pennstater :thumbup:


Thanks!! Hopefully the straw is fairly clean. I figure I can always get after the weeds later if needed. I plan on raking the straw out gently as the grass comes up more.


----------



## pennstater2005

Rained hard last night around 2 a.m. Straw held tight.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Rained hard last night around 2 a.m. Straw held tight.


 :dancenana:


----------



## ericgautier

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rained hard last night around 2 a.m. Straw held tight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :dancenana:
Click to expand...

+1. :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

Thanks @social port and @ericgautier!!

Not a big fan of straw but less so of fixing that area for a third time. I'm tired :lol:


----------



## g-man

I don't like seeing all that straw there. I'm worried about weeds, but glad that you did not get another washout.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> I don't like seeing all that straw there. I'm worried about weeds, but glad that you did not get another washout.


Honestly, I've used straw before without much issue. And nothing I couldn't contain with herbicide. I'm hoping that stays true this time as well. I don't like it either though. Hell of a lot cheaper than peat. I happen to have a patient that is a farmer and he charges $3.50 a bale. The local nursery wanted $9 :evil:


----------



## TreyDoc

Nice, lookin good! Looking forward to seeing them new babies in a couple weeks. Now, if I can just keep them thunderstorms away . . .


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Nice, lookin good! Looking forward to seeing them new babies in a couple weeks. Now, if I can just keep them thunderstorms away . . .


Thanks! Surprisingly it's been a dry day here.


----------



## Chris LI

pennstater2005 said:


> Thanks! Surprisingly it's been a dry day here.


Glad to hear! We got a 15 minute pummeling around 6 pm. I thought about all the folks with renos, with yours being the first to come to mind. I figured that you probably got hit sometime in the morning.


----------



## pennstater2005

Chris LI said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! Surprisingly it's been a dry day here.
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to hear! We got a 15 minute pummeling around 6 pm. I thought about all the folks with renos, with yours being the first to come to mind. I figured that you probably got hit sometime in the morning.
Click to expand...

Somehow the rain has missed us the last two days as well so that's been good.

Watering now and unfortunately with the straw you can't see much but it's coming in.


----------



## TreyDoc

Glad to hear it's going well. It's gonna be nice when them beauties start pushin up through the straw. Looking forward to your first mow. I'm living vicariously through your reno . . .


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Glad to hear it's going well. It's gonna be nice when them beauties start pushin up through the straw. Looking forward to your first mow. I'm living vicariously through your reno . . .


Maybe you can come help when it's time to clear the straw off :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

Sprayed Tenacity over the area that the gas company did in the front. It's literally almost all crabgrass! Then sprayed around the reno area on some creeping stuff that was getting to close for comfort.

Removed a bit of the heavier straw that I put around the upper edges of the reno. Will continue to remove a little bit in each area that is filling in nicely.


----------



## pennstater2005

Quick picture while watering......grass is everywhere. Every time I water I remove a some thicker straw I can see.


----------



## TreyDoc

pennstater2005 said:


> TreyDoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to hear it's going well. It's gonna be nice when them beauties start pushin up through the straw. Looking forward to your first mow. I'm living vicariously through your reno . . .
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you can come help when it's time to clear the straw off :lol:
Click to expand...

I'll bring the Presque Isle Beer and the youngins can clear :twisted:


----------



## TreyDoc

That's looking healthy! Can you tell if any of the KBG is sprouting?


----------



## pennstater2005

@TreyDoc That beer looks awesome! Haven't checked for KBG but plan to do so tonight. I imagine some is up or at least I hope so.


----------



## pennstater2005

Wife last watered at 1 pm. 5:30 and straw still wet underneath. Obviously cooler temps help.



Got a mole on the renovation. Traps are out.


----------



## pennstater2005

Half the fire pit is in the renovation. Not sure why :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

Actually, there's grass growing in the fire pit!


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Wife last watered at 1 pm. 5:30 and straw still wet underneath. Obviously cooler temps help.
> 
> 
> 
> Got a mole on the renovation. Traps are out.


Why is it that moles don't show up until the seed has germinated? That seems like such a common occurrence. Why can't they come during the fallowing period? Such bad timing.


----------



## TreyDoc

Time to light the straw on fire and get the grass growing crazy everywhere :twisted:


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Time to light the straw on fire and get the grass growing crazy everywhere :twisted:


I had the hose in hand :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

Got him!!!



Watering now and yard is really filling in now...


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wife last watered at 1 pm. 5:30 and straw still wet underneath. Obviously cooler temps help.
> 
> 
> 
> Got a mole on the renovation. Traps are out.
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that moles don't show up until the seed has germinated? That seems like such a common occurrence. Why can't they come during the fallowing period? Such bad timing.
Click to expand...

Not sure what they find so appealing but he's dead now!


----------



## TreyDoc

Dinner!!


----------



## pennstater2005

Re seeded and strawed the front that failed in the spring mostly because I put down prodiamine at the 6 month rate then seeded :fool:



Saw this growing on the pile of peat that washed out recently....it's growing pretty good!


----------



## TreyDoc

Very nice!


----------



## pennstater2005

Coming through nice....need to get the straw off today.


----------



## Alex1389

Nice!


----------



## pennstater2005

Alex1389 said:


> Nice!


Thanks! I'm going to try and get a pic later with more straw off!


----------



## social port

Starting to look like success. I hope all goes well with the straw removal.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Starting to look like success. I hope all goes well with the straw removal.


Thanks. I don't think I'm going to try and remove it all. Just what comes out with light raking.


----------



## Mrotatori

looking good so far, see green coming up in lots of areas


----------



## pennstater2005

Mrotatori said:


> looking good so far, see green coming up in lots of areas


I'll be curious to see how even the germination is with most of the straw removed. I think it's less, as expected where the washouts occurred. I can't really identify KBG at germination but I'll assume there's a litttle now, at least I hope.


----------



## pennstater2005

Raking off straw. Left a little for moisture. I'm actually going to bag this and use it next renovation. It's just for cover anyway. Had my little helpers as usual!!


----------



## pennstater2005

About half of the straw removed....


----------



## TreyDoc

Looking great, m8! Still think you should of just &#128293; it up . . .


----------



## social port

Yeah, it looks like it is coming in well :mrgreen: 
What are those dark blue/grey clumps?


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Looking great, m8! Still think you should of just 🔥 it up . . .


There's still time!



social port said:


> Yeah, it looks like it is coming in well :mrgreen:
> What are those dark blue/grey clumps?


Maybe the leaves? There's dead leaves everywhere!!


----------



## Chris LI

:thumbup:
It's definitely coming along. Would you go with the straw again for the washout issues you had?


----------



## pennstater2005

Chris LI said:


> :thumbup:
> It's definitely coming along. Would you go with the straw again for the washout issues you had?


Actually, I plan on saving this straw and using it for next years renovation. It definitely held up very well to heavy rains. Will I get additional weeds? Possibly, but worth it in my opinion versus fussing with another washout.


----------



## pennstater2005

Have about 3/4 of the straw raked off now. Mowed and bagged. Light dose of urea.


----------



## social port

Nice! A feel-good addition here is that, at least from the pictures, I don't see any weeds.


----------



## TreyDoc

That is lookin mighty fine!


----------



## Mrotatori

looking really good


----------



## pennstater2005

Thanks all! There is wheat growing :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

This is what was growing. I could just grow it and then bale it.


----------



## pennstater2005

Also, sprayed second app of Tenacity in front over crabgrass. Spot sprayed nutsedge with Sedgehammer. And sprayed Cyzmic CS around perimeter of home and in basement. I'm whooped. That's a lot of triple rinsing containers.


----------



## TreyDoc

Goin green! Grow your own cover for reno 2020!


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Goin green! Grow your own cover for reno 2020!


Hey there's a thought!!


----------



## samjonester

Nice work! Lots of green! :thumbup: Glad the straw helped you out. You overseeded when you put straw down, right? What rate did you use? Looks like you ended up with fairly good coverage considering the rain.


----------



## pennstater2005

samjonester said:


> Nice work! Lots of green! :thumbup: Glad the straw helped you out. You overseeded when you put straw down, right? What rate did you use? Looks like you ended up with fairly good coverage considering the rain.


Thanks! Yes I reapplied seed after the second washout. Not sure of rate but I put down 6# more seed. It looked like uneven coverage until I removed more of the straw yesterday and mowed. I'm surprised it is that even.


----------



## pennstater2005

Got a quick picture as I was leaving this morning.


----------



## g-man

First mow tonight?


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> First mow tonight?


Mowed Monday actually. Got a lot more straw off too.


----------



## TreyDoc

Sweet drive by action!


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Sweet drive by action!


I was already late for leaving for work but I just had to grab a quick one!

I watered in the prodiamine app when I got home from work. No real rain in the forecast here. I don't believe I watered half an inch so I'll probably do it again tomorrow to finish getting it worked into the soil.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Got a quick picture as I was leaving this morning.


It's already looking pretty thick in a lot of places. I think you've made the case for straw.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got a quick picture as I was leaving this morning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's already looking pretty thick in a lot of places. I think you've made the case for straw.
Click to expand...

Bagged some straw for next year. A little winter wheat growing but other than that pretty good!


----------



## pennstater2005

Sunrise picture. All in all filling in pretty good. Need to get a bit more straw out if possible.


----------



## Mrotatori

It's filling in well. What amazes me is the difference in color for the new grass compared to last year's. Mine looks the same.


----------



## pennstater2005

Mrotatori said:


> It's filling in well. What amazes me is the difference in color for the new grass compared to last year's. Mine looks the same.


Yeah the color difference is pretty cool to see. Can't wait for it all to match though either :nod:


----------



## TreyDoc

Impressive. Washouts make for better lawns! It's coming up real nice, again, I'm jealous.


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> Impressive. Washouts make for better lawns! It's coming up real nice, again, I'm jealous.


Thanks bud! They definitely make you better at each renovation you do


----------



## pennstater2005

Second mow. Gonna rake out some more straw and then another light app of urea.


----------



## social port

Looking good, @pennstater2005. Congrats!


----------



## pennstater2005

Thanks @social port.

Here's the difference with more straw raked out.


----------



## TreyDoc

That is lookin mighty fine m8. Crazy thing is, it's only gonna get better!


----------



## pennstater2005

A few shots from this morning.....


----------



## TreyDoc

That looks downright purty. :dancenana: How is the KBG coming along?


----------



## pennstater2005

TreyDoc said:


> That looks downright purty. :dancenana: How is the KBG coming along?


Thanks :thumbup: Not sure....I can't really identify it, at least not yet. I'll look closer tonight.

I am down to watering one time a day. Usually mid day after it starts drying up a bit from the morning dew/wetness.


----------



## social port

Can you tell if you are going to need to spot seed any areas? To me, it pretty well looks like a full lawn already.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Can you tell if you are going to need to spot seed any areas? To me, it pretty well looks like a full lawn already.


Some areas are a little bare. But I think they'll fill in. I don't plan on any more seeding this year. But it is mostly full.


----------



## pennstater2005

Raked out another couple rows of straw. Then mowed. Almost done getting straw out. You can see the giant pile of straw back in the corner. Plus I bagged 8 as well.



The upper area is battling rust.


----------



## social port

@pennstater2005, it looks like you are using a pushmower. How do you drink beer with that?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> @pennstater2005, it looks like you are using a pushmower. How do you drink beer with that?


The struggle is real.


----------



## Babameca

pennstater2005 said:


> social port said:
> 
> 
> 
> @pennstater2005, it looks like you are using a pushmower. How do you drink beer with that?
> 
> 
> 
> The struggle is real.
Click to expand...

 It may help keep straight lines... :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

Quick picture from the kitchen window. I can see where the two renovations are starting to mesh. The lower side of this years reno is thinner than the top. I'll keep gently pushing it with urea weekly. Seems to be helping.


----------



## pennstater2005

Taken from upstairs window. You can see some of the thinner spots especially in the lower area.


----------



## pennstater2005




----------



## TreyDoc

Impressive. Barely can tell a difference between the two renos on 1st and 3rd pics. Nice job man.


----------



## pennstater2005

Still filling in. It's liking the nitrogen.



Difference from 2017 reno on left. I need to get after the triv/annua. And get a few plugs in.


----------



## ericgautier

Looking awesome!


----------



## pennstater2005

ericgautier said:


> Looking awesome!


Thanks Eric.


----------



## Pete1313

ericgautier said:


> Looking awesome!


Agreed! Nice work!


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> ericgautier said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking awesome!
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed! Nice work!
Click to expand...

Thanks Pete. Only one more section to go!


----------



## social port

You make it look so easy. Looks great.
That one picture with the tent opens my eyes to how big your backyard is. Does your property line go all the way to the tree in that picture?


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> You make it look so easy. Looks great.
> That one picture with the tent opens my eyes to how big your backyard is. Does your property line go all the way to the tree in that picture?


Thanks SP! No, just a few feet behind the tent. The whole property is a little over half an acre of which a little over half that I mow. I'm doing lots of perimeter plantings to fence it in naturally.


----------



## pennstater2005

Night shot with Pixel like @g-man. Burning straw while the wife and kids play soccer.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Night shot with Pixel like @g-man. Burning straw while the wife and kids play soccer.


 Nice! Another night shot! Bonus points for fire on the side.


----------



## TreyDoc

Nice picture of the great job on the lawn! Looks like the family is having fun.


----------



## pennstater2005

Slowing down now on filling in. I've got a dead spot you can see off to the right. These colder temps coming are really going to slow its growth.


----------



## Mrotatori

looks good


----------



## pennstater2005

Mrotatori said:


> looks good


Thanks!

Few more after mow today.


----------



## social port

Wow, that is looking good, @pennstater2005. Did you buy a striper?


----------



## Babameca

mmmm Freshly mowed reno. I can smell it from here. And that color. It is difficult to believe...and those new smartphones :lol: I rely on mine, truth truth.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Wow, that is looking good, @pennstater2005. Did you buy a striper?


No striper. Just the old Husqvarna.


----------



## pennstater2005

Timed a light dose of urea today for the entire lawn with the rain heading my way. Bottom half of the reno is struggling a bit. Not filling in much so I'm hoping this gives it a boost.


----------



## pennstater2005

Mow last night. You can see the area struggling more to fill in.


----------



## JDgreen18

That looks good...that area will fill in in no time.


----------



## pennstater2005

JDgreen18 said:


> That looks good...that area will fill in in no time.


Thanks! I'm hoping it mostly fills in before dormancy.


----------



## JDgreen18

pennstater2005 said:


> JDgreen18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That looks good...that area will fill in in no time.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I'm hoping it mostly fills in before dormancy.
Click to expand...

Whatever doesn't it will with a good N push next spring


----------



## pennstater2005

The next area to be renovated is fairly shady midday. Starting to think about cultivars to address that. Not sure though.


----------



## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> The next area to be renovated is fairly shady midday. Starting to think about cultivars to address that. Not sure though.


TTTF? FF? In combination with Bewitched or Mazama? Throw in some of your existing mix for consistency??


----------



## pennstater2005

Green said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The next area to be renovated is fairly shady midday. Starting to think about cultivars to address that. Not sure though.
> 
> 
> 
> TTTF? FF? In combination with Bewitched or Mazama? Throw in some of your existing mix for consistency??
Click to expand...

TTTF is definitely on my mind. I guess I don't care too much about it matching color exactly. I'd rather get the right cultivars in there so I'm not messing with it season after season.

Which TTTF cultivars are more shade tolerant? I should definitely get 5# of my original mix to make a blend though.


----------



## pennstater2005

I would like to avoid FF in the back if possible.


----------



## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> Which TTTF cultivars are more shade tolerant? I should definitely get 5# of my original mix to make a blend though.


I just asked Stephen at Hogan that question in the past hour. He suggested "Rowdy". Said they will be getting some of it in, in the next week or so, and should continue to have it next year.

http://www.sroseed.com/Files/Files/SRO_USA/Tech_Sheets/Turfgrass/Tall_Fescue/Rowdy_ts.pdf

Yeah, I had a shady area that wasn't working well with the PR/KBG a few years back, and overseeded it with TTTF and a little FF. Now it grows well.

I will probably order a couple of lbs of the Rowdy in early March to dormant seed in another area struggling with shade. I will look it up, first.


----------



## pennstater2005

Thanks for the info @Green.


----------



## social port

Ooooh! Cool. Welcome to the world of TTTF, @pennstater2005. I'm excited about that.


----------



## pennstater2005

Got urea down late last night over whole lawn for the rains that are here now. I'm getting close to winding down the urea.


----------



## fusebox7

pennstater2005 said:


> The next area to be renovated is fairly shady midday. Starting to think about cultivars to address that. Not sure though.


If you do KBG... you have to be even more patient in shady areas. My last house the back part of the backyard backed up to woods that faced south. It got a tiny bit of sunlight in the morning and a tiny bit in the late afternoon. It took until spring of the 3rd year to look good (thicker establishment, vigor). In fact the difference between the 2nd and 3rd years was quite drastic. Unfortunately, a lot of folks change course before that 3rd year thinking that the KBG isn't going to cut it... true test of patience.


----------



## pennstater2005

fusebox7 said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The next area to be renovated is fairly shady midday. Starting to think about cultivars to address that. Not sure though.
> 
> 
> 
> If you do KBG... you have to be even more patient in shady areas. My last house the back part of the backyard backed up to woods that faced south. It got a tiny bit of sunlight in the morning and a tiny bit in the late afternoon. It took until spring of the 3rd year to look good (thicker establishment, vigor). In fact the difference between the 2nd and 3rd years was quite drastic. Unfortunately, a lot of folks change course before that 3rd year thinking that the KBG isn't going to cut it... true test of patience.
Click to expand...

This last renovation I did in the shadier areas near the trees are a bit thin. They'll definitely take awhile. Do you remember what cultivar of KBG it was?


----------



## fusebox7

pennstater2005 said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The next area to be renovated is fairly shady midday. Starting to think about cultivars to address that. Not sure though.
> 
> 
> 
> If you do KBG... you have to be even more patient in shady areas. My last house the back part of the backyard backed up to woods that faced south. It got a tiny bit of sunlight in the morning and a tiny bit in the late afternoon. It took until spring of the 3rd year to look good (thicker establishment, vigor). In fact the difference between the 2nd and 3rd years was quite drastic. Unfortunately, a lot of folks change course before that 3rd year thinking that the KBG isn't going to cut it... true test of patience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This last renovation I did in the shadier areas near the trees are a bit thin. They'll definitely take awhile. Do you remember what cultivar of KBG it was?
Click to expand...

In the back shady part it was 50/50 Bewitched and Mazama.


----------



## pennstater2005

Thanks @fusebox7. I'll probably mix in a little shade tolerant PRG and maybe TTTF. Lots of time to think I guess


----------



## pennstater2005

After tonights mow....



Coming along well. I imagine it will be like the other section and take a good year or two before it really matures nicely.


----------



## Mrotatori

It's blending in well, looks great


----------



## pennstater2005

Mrotatori said:


> It's blending in well, looks great


Thanks!


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> After tonights mow....
> 
> 
> 
> Coming along well. I imagine it will be like the other section and take a good year or two before it really matures nicely.


Looking great.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> After tonights mow....
> 
> 
> 
> Coming along well. I imagine it will be like the other section and take a good year or two before it really matures nicely.
> 
> 
> 
> Looking great.
Click to expand...

Thanks bud :thumbup: Sad though cause I can just tell it's getting close to going to sleep.


----------



## samjonester

Looks great! You need a soccer goal at the end of that pitch!


----------



## TreyDoc

Beautiful man. That is absolutely impressive.


----------



## pennstater2005

samjonester said:


> Looks great! You need a soccer goal at the end of that pitch!


Thanks! I have a kids size one 



TreyDoc said:


> Beautiful man. That is absolutely impressive.


Appreciate it :thumbup: How is yours coming? I feel like the season is winding down quickly now. I'm done with urea.


----------



## pennstater2005

Quick picture from last nights mow. Some clippings but not much. I was thinking of one more urea app but it's obviously trying to go sleepy so I'll leave it be.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Looks good @pennstater2005. Color is great. Do you get lots of leaves in fall?


----------



## pennstater2005

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Looks good pennstater2005. Color is great. Do you get lots of leaves in fall?


Thanks. I get a fair amount. Mostly on the lower side of the yard where I haven't renovated. I was too lazy this year to bring leaves to the upper side so I just mulched em in where they lay.


----------



## pennstater2005

Growth has slowed to a crawl. Burning bushes are looking nice though. Wonder why they don't all go at the same time?


----------



## pennstater2005

Close to last mow!

Some Bud Light Lime with T.I.


----------



## social port

pennstater2005 said:


> Close to last mow!
> 
> Some Bud Light Lime with T.I.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

Lawn is basically asleep. Cut about a week ago and no growth since. I cut today but more so to mulch in the last of the leaves. Maintenance is all done on all the equipment. I've had some deer in the yard nibbling on the burning bushes so I bought bird netting and covered them and the new knock out roses.

No winterizer again this year as I didn't see any visual benefit.

It was a good year and I'll be very interested in seeing how this last reno does. One more section for the main backyard and then I'll be done renovating for a little bit. Yeah right :lol:

Also, I'll be working in some fungicide next year as it did some damage to the 2 year old renovation. I'm hoping it will recover.


----------



## pennstater2005

Penn Power was installing a new pole near my house. My wife happened to be home and saw them outside walking around. She asked if they could cut down the two pines in our front yard as they're both nearly dead. Two days later a crew was out and they're gone!!! I have a front yard now to work with.


----------



## Pete1313

Nice!


----------



## pennstater2005

From tonight.... Upper 2017 reno 2019 reno greener part


----------



## Green

@pennstater2005, good to see you're back to pennstating again! Our grass looks the same right now. Partly dormant.

Did you know "Sylvania" means "forestland"? So Pennsylvania is "William Penn's Forestland". But you have Penn's grassland. :mrgreen:


----------



## pennstater2005

Green said:


> @pennstater2005, good to see you're back to pennstating again! Our grass looks the same right now. Partly dormant.
> 
> Did you know "Sylvania" means "forestland"? So Pennsylvania is "William Penn's Forestland". But you have Penn's grassland. :mrgreen:


The upper section had the fungus from last year. It doesn't look good and I'm hoping it recovers somewhat. If not probably a light overseed this fall.


----------



## Chris LI

pennstater2005 said:


> From tonight.... Upper 2017 reno 2019 reno greener part


It will be a great comparison to see the differences in color, density, growth pattern, etc. between the mature and immature renos, as the season progresses.


----------



## pennstater2005

Chris LI said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> From tonight.... Upper 2017 reno 2019 reno greener part
> 
> 
> 
> It will be a great comparison to see the differences in color, density, growth pattern, etc. between the mature and immature renos, as the season progresses.
Click to expand...

I'll be interested in that for sure. Then I'll have the last section this year at the bottom of the yard. It'll look like three different properties.


----------



## pennstater2005

Not lawn related but......those trees they downed for me. I got them all into the Gorilla cart and hauled down to the back. Used a 20# sledge with two wedges and got the big stuff manageable to throw into the fire. I had to use the chainsaw to cut some long stuff first. Burning hot now! Just have to keep it alive through the night somehow. I am sore.


----------



## pennstater2005

If temps keep up I don't think I'll be very far off from my pre m. Possibly a couple weeks earlier than last year.


----------



## social port

I am not a fan of trees (at least in my yard), so I'm glad you were able to get that space opened up.


----------



## pennstater2005

Went outside today to check appropriateness of prodiamine app. I believe it's a bit early. Ground temp 45 degrees F and just starting activity on buds of forsythia. GDDtracker has me in about a week which I believe will be close.


----------



## pennstater2005

Hairy bittercress is showing it's ugly head in my yard now. Pretty easy to identify. I'm hand pulling. Filled half a 5 gallon bucket already.


----------



## Chris LI

pennstater2005 said:


> Hairy bittercress is showing it's ugly head in my yard now. Pretty easy to identify. I'm hand pulling. Filled half a 5 gallon bucket already.


Oh, those little buggers drove me nuts the last few years. I have never had them in the distant past, but about 5 years ago I was invaded by several which I believe must have had seeds blow in from far away during a storm. Not knowing what they were at the time, I discovered them too late in the season (April) and the little flowers exploded, spreading seeds everywhere. I've been vigilant pulling them as soon as I would find them in late winter/early spring ever since, and have had increasingly better success each year.

Also, I believe there are different varieties, or the plant color is affected by environmental ans/or soil conditions, pH, etc., because not all of them have a purple stem or purple central foliage. I'm very curious about it.


----------



## pennstater2005

Chris LI said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hairy bittercress is showing it's ugly head in my yard now. Pretty easy to identify. I'm hand pulling. Filled half a 5 gallon bucket already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, those little buggers drove me nuts the last few years. I have never had them in the distant past, but about 5 years ago I was invaded by several which I believe must have had seeds blow in from far away during a storm. Not knowing what they were at the time, I discovered them too late in the season (April) and the little flowers exploded, spreading seeds everywhere. I've been vigilant pulling them as soon as I would find them in late winter/early spring ever since, and have had increasingly better success each year.
> 
> Also, I believe there are different varieties, or the plant color is affected by environmental ans/or soil conditions, pH, etc., because not all of them have a purple stem or purple central foliage. I'm very curious about it.
Click to expand...

I'm getting to mine earlier this year too. Hoping to finally eradicate it.


----------



## pennstater2005

Prodiamine down. Rain coming hopefully not too heavy. Probably a touch early but conditions are good overall. Couldn't pass it up. Still waking up here.


----------



## pennstater2005

I feel like I'm starting with 3 yards this year! Lower section will be renovated this fall. Mid section, last years renovation, looks best. Hoping upper section recovers more from fungal invasion last year.


----------



## pennstater2005

Bought Crossbow to address the hairy bittercress. Hope to receive it this week and get it down. Too scared to mix that combo on my own :lol:


----------



## Powhatan

pennstater2005 said:


> Bought Crossbow to address the hairy bittercress. Hope to receive it this week and get it down. Too scared to mix that combo on my own :lol:


That winter weed has already come and gone in my area. This later in the weed's growth for your area may be too late for herbicide pickup, but maybe not. Yours is already blooming so may have already dropped seeds for next winter's crop, definitely put down a fall preM.


----------



## pennstater2005

Thanks @Powhatan. It's just kicking into gear here now. Seeds aren't flying off it yet when I walk through it. I put down prodiamine in the fall but it doesn't control bittercress (not labeled for it). Hope I didn't miss my window for post emergent control.


----------



## Powhatan

@pennstater2005 oh I see the prodiamine label doesn't list bittercress but dithiopyr does. Must be a good example to rotate herbicides.


----------



## Chris LI

Powhatan said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bought Crossbow to address the hairy bittercress. Hope to receive it this week and get it down. Too scared to mix that combo on my own :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> That winter weed has already come and gone in my area. This later in the weed's growth for your area may be too late for herbicide pickup, but maybe not. Yours is already blooming so may have already dropped seeds for next winter's crop, definitely put down a fall preM.
Click to expand...

I would carefully handpick them. It's worked for me several years in the spring, since I limit my herbicides as much as possible (no Chemical PreM spring or fall, except for some Tenacity). The population is much lower now and easier to control. They are still blooming in my area and I handpicked a few today. Handpicking will help to limit the seed bank, which may be more helpful than the Crossbow, in the long run.


----------



## pennstater2005

I've been handpicking some here and there as have the kids. It's just back meaner than ever this year so I gotta spray something!


----------



## Chris LI

pennstater2005 said:


> I've been handpicking some here and there as have the kids. It's just back meaner than ever this year so I gotta spray something!


I've struggled with this for years for the same reason (I was 100% organic for 10 years). Hang in there.  I had to have a high threshold for weed tolerance (mental pain) for a long time. I used corn gluten, hand picking, fall overseeding with TTTF, and high HOC (3.5"+) to limit weeds for a long time, before committing to kbg, urea, and using some herbicides sparingly in the last few years.


----------



## pennstater2005

Can't get fertilizer I want so last night before the rains I applied .2# per M of urea. I need that KBG to fill in a bit more. Waiting on crossbow to attack bittercress. Hand pulled a bit but too much. I might need to work in a different pre emergent in the fall.


----------



## pennstater2005

Sprayed Crossbow on the hairy Bittercress. Fingers crossed. It hadn't gone to seed yet.


----------



## pennstater2005

Crossbow put a hurtin on the bittercress! Wilted quickly.


----------



## pennstater2005

Blanket sprayed Crossbow in front. 4 tablespoons per gallon. This was to get the hairy Bittercress and other weeds that popped through. Not much but I didn't feel like using the backpack.

Still not mowing yet. Very slow growth with temps fairly cold yet around here.


----------



## social port

Dang, @pennstater2005. I can't believe it is still slow for you. I feel like I have already have a lot of the season under my belt. Maybe it's the corona that is making time go by slower.


----------



## pennstater2005

social port said:


> Dang, @pennstater2005. I can't believe it is still slow for you. I feel like I have already have a lot of the season under my belt. Maybe it's the corona that is making time go by slower.


There's some truth to that! 35° this morning. Supposed to start warming more this week but again only into the 50s.


----------



## Babameca

Same temps here. It is so Slow! Snow melted a month ago. I am used to mow a week or two after that. Fired up the reel and did few passes to only hit debris and very little yellowed grass tips. Disappointment...


----------



## pennstater2005

Lawn is waking up exceptionally slow this year. Mowed for the first time yesterday. It barely needed it. Still dealing with a little weed pressure but am addressing it.

Also, still spoon feeding urea which is helping kbg portion is lawn to fill in.


----------



## pennstater2005

Still piddling in the front yard versus a renovation as that's for the back last 1/3 this fall.


----------



## pennstater2005

Sitting on a five gallon bucket watching the rain....


----------



## Chris LI

Wow! That color looks fantastic! Congrats on the successful reno! :thumbsup:


----------



## pennstater2005

Chris LI said:


> Wow! That color looks fantastic! Congrats on the successful reno! :thumbsup:


Thanks Chris! I'm still thinking "good from far, far from good." Close ups would reveal poa and not the good kind. No more wheat though :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

Dug out a bunch of hostas and will transplant them into the area I killed off. Nothing grows well there due to shade from the arborvitae. Plus I hate mowing it.


----------



## bernstem

pennstater2005 said:


> Dug out a bunch of hostas and will transplant them into the area I killed off. Nothing grows well there due to shade from the arborvitae. Plus I hate mowing it.


That will make a very nice garden! Looks terrible for turf


----------



## pennstater2005

bernstem said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dug out a bunch of hostas and will transplant them into the area I killed off. Nothing grows well there due to shade from the arborvitae. Plus I hate mowing it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That will make a very nice garden! Looks terrible for turf
Click to expand...

Thanks and yes it does :lol: Although I do like blue dye as some here know.


----------



## Chris LI

I have and love hostas, too. Lily of the valley does very well in dense shade, and ferns too (I also have them).


----------



## pennstater2005

Got loads of triv in last years reno. My fault for buying cheap seed. But, the same seed from two years ago was fine.


----------



## g-man

Or the straw


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> Or the straw


Maybe. But why would a cool season perennial grass be growing in a wheat field? I could see crop type grasses coming from the straw.


----------



## pennstater2005

Lawn is greening up nicely. KBG is filling in bare areas.





Killed off and scalped this section of the front yard where I'm going to plant hostas.


----------



## Chris LI

Nice domination line in the background of the first photo! :mrgreen:


----------



## pennstater2005

Chris LI said:


> Nice domination line in the background of the first photo! :mrgreen:


Thanks!


----------



## pennstater2005

Starting to blend together a little better now....


----------



## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> Starting to blend together a little better now....


Looks great going into Summer. Hopefully this year's Reno will be a breeze.


----------



## pennstater2005

Green said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Starting to blend together a little better now....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great going into Summer. Hopefully this year's Reno will be a breeze.
Click to expand...

Me too! Thanks for the compliment :thumbup:


----------



## Alex1389

@pennstater2005 You've got some awesome color. Nice work!


----------



## pennstater2005

Alex1389 said:


> @pennstater2005 You've got some awesome color. Nice work!


Thanks! The light does make it a bit "limier" than it actually is but I got some poa triv and annua so it is limey in color to a degree :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

Setting up the hostas. Not sure how I want them yet.


----------



## g-man

I would place them further away from the stairs. The grow wider and will start to block them too much.


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> I would place them further away from the stairs. The grow wider and will start to block them too much.


Yeah I didn't plant anything yet. Too hot. I'm a lightweight when it comes to heat. I've got to split some of the bigger ones as well.


----------



## Chris LI

:thumbsup: I love hostas!


----------



## pennstater2005

Chris LI said:


> :thumbsup: I love hostas!


Me too! I'm dreading planting them. Still haven't done it, they're just sitting there :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

Got the hostas in. And I got sunburnt!


----------



## pennstater2005

Got a quote last night for two large cherry trees to come down. I want them down now because they drop limbs constantly and because they can drive through th last section I haven't renovated.

I told him they have until early August because once I drop seed it's done :evil:

$3200 surprised me but I've used them before and they're excellent. He has a Tree Mek meaning he's completely remote controlled now including stump grinder.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yi-WbTbikc

Only one even close to me that has one.


----------



## Powhatan

That remote tree cutter looks so much better than having someone climb up and possibly dropping limbs unsafely. If that job cost compares reasonably to a manual job I'd say go for it.


----------



## pennstater2005

Powhatan said:


> That remote tree cutter looks so much better than having someone climb up and possibly dropping limbs unsafely. If that job cost compares reasonably to a manual job I'd say go for it.


I said yes. Expensive but they clean up like no other. They use turf mats if they need to drive on the lawn.


----------



## pennstater2005

My wife put a Waterhog mat on the grass "just for a few hours". No big deal. It was out there to dry.


----------



## Chris LI

:x  :x  :x  :x


----------



## pennstater2005

Chris LI said:


> :x  :x  :x  :x


Yeah. There is a little green coming up through now.


----------



## pennstater2005

Ordered seed from Nature's Seed. It's also where I get the tackifier. Actually weed and crop seed free. It's for a partially shady area. Here's the label. I start the kill off this Sunday weather permitting.



15% off and free shipping. 15# was about $68.


----------



## Green

Mazama is supposed to be great as you know, especially for partial shade. Quartz is another that interests me; it's supposed to blend really well with TTTF. For the shade, the FF is the real workhorse, though. It does the heavy lifting. There are so many posts about people asking how to get rid of it in lawns, but they hardly ever mention whether the area is shady.

The fert calculator is great to have a link to.


----------



## pennstater2005

@Green

Yeah without researching these cultivars I knew the FFs and Mazama were great for shade. I'm not a big fan of that this blade but if it's sunnier than I think the KBG will move in on it.

I found that calculator because I'm terrible at math :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

Also, the more I think about the poa triv in last years renovated area the more I realize I didn't fallow properly. I was blaming the straw but I believe now I should've sprayed more glyphosate. It was a heavy area of triv. I won't make that mistake this time.


----------



## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> Also, the more I think about the poa triv in last years renovated area the more I realize I didn't fallow properly. I was blaming the straw but I believe now I should've sprayed more glyphosate. It was a heavy area of triv. I won't make that mistake this time.


I don't remember how many apps you did, but I've been doing at least 3 on any Triv areas. This is my second year doing this. I don't believe any has come back in the exact spots a year later. About 7 years ago, I did one or two apps on an area, and only the past year or two saw a little bit of Triv come back there. But it could have come from seed instead of just regrowth from dormant roots, since I did seed that area one or two times since.


----------



## pennstater2005

Applied the Scott's Disease Ex I got on sale from Amazon. Waiting for rain that may not come. I'll water if needed. Humid as heck and more 90s coming this week so figured a good time to drop.


----------



## pennstater2005

Kill off


----------



## pennstater2005

Seed and tackifier will be here today. Already have the soil moist seed coat. Lots of root to get out because of the tree. I do plan on renting the thatch machine again.

The stone you see at the end of the driveway I put there to collect water and it runs off into a drywell. It has stopped the excessive runoff into the yard.


----------



## Jtgorman75

pennstater2005 said:


> Seed and tackifier will be here today. Already have the soil moist seed coat. Lots of root to get out because of the tree. I do plan on renting the thatch machine again.
> 
> The stone you see at the end of the driveway I put there to collect water and it runs off into a drywell. It has stopped the excessive runoff into the yard.


Are you taking that tree out? Or just removing some roots?


----------



## pennstater2005

@Jtgorman75

Just roots. There are quite a few so I'm gonna be busy! I might use the sawzall.


----------



## pennstater2005

Rented the power rake. Didn't go quite as deep this time. Thinking maybe that brought up some of the garage grass I've got from last year.

Exposed plenty of soil. A little leveling this week plus watering a bit to fallow and another two rounds of gly.


----------



## pennstater2005

Hoping to get gly down today after work. Then will need to get a bit more grass out with the thatch rake. Hoping for seed down Saturday or Sunday. Depends on how much I get done this week.


----------



## pennstater2005

Second round of gly. Chopping out some roots tomorrow.


----------



## pennstater2005

Seed down day. Cutting roots out with the reciprocating saw. Easy!


----------



## pennstater2005

All done. The orbit impulse sprinklers are better made than the rainbird ones. Better coverage. Yes I used straw. Afternoon thunderstorms predicted everyday next week.


----------



## pennstater2005

Bought another Orbit impulse sprinkler. The two give enough coverage as they're very adjustable. Maybe a tiny bit of hand watering.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Nothing like another reno right? Should look great soon enough. Do you find that the impulse sprinkles work well for germinating seeds? I wasn't sure if they should be too aggressive for seeding.


----------



## pennstater2005

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Nothing like another reno right? Should look great soon enough. Do you find that the impulse sprinkles work well for germinating seeds? I wasn't sure if they should be too aggressive for seeding.


I'll be glad to take a break after this year 

The impulse sprinklers work well in that the harder stream you see above is for farther away and then when it comes back it waters the inside diameter with less intensity.

I watched it the entire time I watered and it is pretty good coverage. Didn't seem to disturb anything but then again I have straw.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

pennstater2005 said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing like another reno right? Should look great soon enough. Do you find that the impulse sprinkles work well for germinating seeds? I wasn't sure if they should be too aggressive for seeding.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be glad to take a break after this year
> 
> The impulse sprinklers work well in that the harder stream you see above is for farther away and then when it comes back it waters the inside diameter with less intensity.
> 
> I watched it the entire time I watered and it is pretty good coverage. Didn't seem to disturb anything but then again I have straw.
Click to expand...

I might try that for my neighbors reno. I've been using a sprinkler they have that gives a fine mist buy it's slow to get coverage. Thanks for the info.


----------



## pennstater2005

@SNOWBOB11

Here's a video I just uploaded to give you a better idea.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Cool thanks. I can see how the straw could help keep things in place. Hopefully no major storms to test out how much it really helps.


----------



## pennstater2005

Little grasses



Gotta be fine fescue.... I'm hoping I get more sun here than I think and the FF will die away and KBG fill in.


----------



## Babameca

Rewarding!!!


----------



## pennstater2005

Babameca said:


> Rewarding!!!


Yup :thumbsup:


----------



## g-man

It seems like every year is turning out easier to do a reno. Next year the front?


----------



## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> It seems like every year is turning out easier to do a reno. Next year the front?


This is true. It definitely gets easier with experience. Front? Maybe. Probably :lol:

Edited to add: It's been nice doing it in sections. I can learn from one year to the next.


----------



## pennstater2005

Quick update pic


----------



## ken-n-nancy

pennstater2005 said:


> Gotta be fine fescue.... I'm hoping I get more sun here than I think and the FF will die away and KBG fill in.


Well... My experience with a FF / KBG mix is that the FF goes dormant in the summer, giving a chance to the KBG to catch up a little, but growing is slowed enough in the summer that the KBG doesn't make much headway, even though the FF is dormant or practically dormant. Then, in the fall, both grow well, neither outpacing the other. In early spring, though, the FF wakes up first and takes advantage of those long days of spring (lots of sunlight) and cool temps, and handily gains back anything it lost against the KBG the previous summer. Then the cycle repeats. In the long run, neither outcompete the other -- both remain there in about the proportions they were seeded, unless there is some sort of local disturbance which eliminates both grasses -- then the KBG fills back in to the bare spot, and the FF doesn't...

I wish there were a good way to get rid of FF from a KBG/FF mix. I've tried heavy doses of Tenacity, but it wasn't enough. Decided this year to renovate my last northern mix section to all KBG...


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## pennstater2005

@ken-n-nancy

Interesting. Makes sense. I used the FF because the area is pretty heavily shaded and I was afraid the Mazama may not live or be really thin.

And where the shade is dense the FF is growing quickly compared to sunny areas. So at least in those less shaded areas I'm hoping the KBG will outpace it as I see little to no germination in those areas.


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## pennstater2005

Prodiamine down. Start of fall nitrogen.


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## pennstater2005

Coming back a bit now...


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## pennstater2005

Did some seeding in the front on top of the prodiamine I just put down. Some areas no prodiamine so should see better germination.


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## pennstater2005

Once temps cool down a touch I'll be spraying ethofumesate on the existing poa annua. Have been pulling straw off renovation bit by bit. It's coming in nicely.


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## pennstater2005

Renovation is a bit rough. Bluegrass slowly coming in still. I got some Hunter MP 3000s with spray bodies on sale to mess with and learn.


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## pennstater2005

Continuing to fill in slowly. Plan on Ethofumesate app this weekend.


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## pennstater2005

Haven't posted much about this. But it continues to fill in. Been nudging it gently with urea. It's responding. Most of the straw has been raked off. Weeds present but I can handle those. I can't believe I waited so long to use the Hunter MP rotators. They're awesome!


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## pennstater2005

Finally sprayed Ethofumesate. 6oz in 4 gallons of water across 4k. Hopefully can spray again in 3 weeks.


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## Chris LI

pennstater2005 said:


> I can't believe I waited so long to use the Hunter MP rotators. They're awesome!


I had the same reaction when I started using them this year. How are things looking now?


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## pennstater2005

Chris LI said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't believe I waited so long to use the Hunter MP rotators. They're awesome!
> 
> 
> 
> I had the same reaction when I started using them this year. How are things looking now?
Click to expand...

Eh. Okay. It's filling still but pretty thin in other areas. It was a 70% KBG mixed w FF. Lots of weeds but nothing I can't take care of. 3rd renovation I find I'm not getting as excited about things anymore :lol:


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## pennstater2005

Not pushing anymore N but I am gonna get the sprinklers back out for the reno :thumbup: Warm weather coming!!

It's needs everyday of warmth it can get.


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## g-man

How is it looking?


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## pennstater2005

g-man said:


> How is it looking?






Not too bad. At this stage I can't tell KBG from FF.


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## pennstater2005

Renovation area from 2017. Looking good with the Cleveland pear trees and burning bushes.


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## ken-n-nancy

pennstater2005 said:


> Renovation area from 2017. Looking good with the Cleveland pear trees and burning bushes.


Love the fall colors!


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## pennstater2005

Lawn is still growing but just barely. Was planning second ethofumesate app this last week but rain imminent within 24 hours so held off. Still hoping to get it down as I have noticed a difference already with the poa present. Unfortunately, some was all poa and I got some bare patches.


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## pennstater2005

Roses still coming into late November. These are the only ones that aren't knockouts. I can't remember the variety.


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## pennstater2005

I've never winter seeded. I did today. About 45 deg F out. Last year's renovation is a bit rough. Wait and see I guess.


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## pennstater2005

This is what I'm working with. Last year's reno. I want to put prodiamine down but probably won't.

Everything else doesn't look too bad.


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## SNOWBOB11

Sometimes things can look pretty bad coming out of winter but it's crazy how much it will fill in once it warms up. Being you seeded I think your right to hold off on the prodiamine in the reno area. Let the seeds have a chance to germinate.


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## pennstater2005

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Sometimes things can look pretty bad coming out of winter but it's crazy how much it will fill in once it warms up. Being you seeded I think your right to hold off on the prodiamine in the reno area. Let the seeds have a chance to germinate.


I don't have much faith in winter seeding but I'll wait and see. Question is, if it stays warmer do I start to water a bit? There are 40s for the weekend here. I need a new soil thermometer.


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## pennstater2005

Checked soil temp this morning and it is around 41 degrees F. Ten more degrees and I might get lucky.


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## pennstater2005

Got my MSU gdd tracker alert for pre emergent. That coupled with my forsythia blooms I got my prodiamine down last night. Timed with a nice rain today should be set.

Also, sprayed some Crossbow on the weeds in last year's renovation. It's looking rough but I think I can bring it around.


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## pennstater2005

Put down some more seed over the bare areas in last year's renovation. Lightly watered and then rolled it in with my car.


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## SNOWBOB11

That's what I call seed to soil contact :lol:


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## pennstater2005

SNOWBOB11 said:


> That's what I call seed to soil contact :lol:


My neighbor somehow knew what I was doing and offered up his truck :nod:


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## pennstater2005

Color is looking good. It is still waking up. Only mowed once and not much came off. Lots of weed grass out there. Last year's renovation continues to fill in. Taking its good old time.


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## pennstater2005

Haven't posted much as I haven't done much. Still haven't fertilized. As usual upper section looks better. Mid section is full of triv.


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## pennstater2005

Put down my Green Magic fertilizer. Rain tomorrow or next day. Battling poa of both kinds but not really. I hand pull when I feel like it but otherwise pre emergent it is. Virtually no broadleaf which is my main goal.

I think I'll always be level one using level 3 herbicides :lol:


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## pennstater2005

Scott's disease ex down. Humid days recently and rain coming. I was just starting to notice the start of fungus pressure.


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## pennstater2005

Got a quick mow in before the rain. Fido wouldn't move so........


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## SNOWBOB11

Looking good. Color is looking dark as well.


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## pennstater2005

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Looking good. Color is looking dark as well.


It's really taken a long time to wake up this year. Not sure why.


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## pennstater2005

After tonight's mow.....lower section slowly coming around.


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## pennstater2005

I'm starting to see nutsedge popping up. Time to order a little Sedgehammer.


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## pennstater2005

I will say I do believe my consistent pre emergent application in spring and fall is slowly working. I still get some weed pressure but it is less. Now, as far as triv goes.....


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## pennstater2005

Few pics after tonight's mow.


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## pennstater2005

Newer section of renovation (last year's). I don't hate the fine fescue yet. It is definitely helping in the shadier areas.


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## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> Newer section of renovation (last year's). I don't hate the fine fescue yet. It is definitely helping in the shadier areas.


It's not bad when mixed with other species, and really does help with shade/tree roots (or low input). I don't like when it becomes the predominant species. But that won't happen in a lawn getting 3+ lbs of N.

Curious what you think of the Quartz KBG in the Reno area mixture. I have some but haven't tried it yet. It should be fairly easy to find because it's supposed to have a wide blade and isn't super dark like the Mazama.

Quartz pdf: http://vistaseedpartners.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Quartz-Kentucky-Bluegrass-Tech-Sheet.pdf


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## pennstater2005

I'd have to go look. Not sure. I'm bad at parsing out different KBG varieties.


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## pennstater2005

Sprayed crossbow along back burning bushes. Neighbors creeping stuff was creeping into my yard. He apologized for his yard "leaking" into mine :lol:

Double nitrile gloved and rubbed glyphosate over some random patches of K31 that still exist in my front yard. Sprayed sedge hammer in the island. Sprayed remainder of sedge hammer on other weeds that it was labeled for.

I'll try to get some pictures up later. My wife was actually out pulling weeds by hand and using my little Ace Hardware weed puller.


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## pennstater2005

The newest renovated section. Right now my favorite.



I was thinking tonight maybe I wouldn't mind a slightly lighter green grass to mask the inevitable poa invasion.


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## pennstater2005

And just above last year's renovation....



The poa farm......


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## SNOWBOB11

Is that poa a or t?


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## pennstater2005

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Is that poa a or t?


Mostly poa a and so I can't wait to get back at it with ethofumesate late summer/early fall pre m. It's so ugly


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## SNOWBOB11

Ok the better of the bad poa. At least your able to kill it without destroying your lawn.


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## pennstater2005

Gly kicking in on the front spots I wiped on with a glove.



No real plan other than seeding those areas in a couple weeks or so.


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## pennstater2005

Last year's renovation area. Filled in quite a bit over this spring and summer.


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## pennstater2005

Trash



Acceptable



Acceptable


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## pennstater2005

Pre M down 1/2 rate (prodiamine) with urea. Raining right now.


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## pennstater2005

Ethofumesate down. 3oz rate. Will re apply in 21-28 days.


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## situman

Ethofumesate actually kills poa a? My impression was its either hand pull plus pre m.


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## pennstater2005

situman said:


> Ethofumesate actually kills poa a? My impression was its either hand pull plus pre m.


It is labeled for it. 2-3 fall applications for my KBG/PRG mix 21-28 days apart.


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## simplesimon

Fellow Boglehead here, nice looking lawn!


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## situman

pennstater2005 said:


> situman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethofumesate actually kills poa a? My impression was its either hand pull plus pre m.
> 
> 
> 
> It is labeled for it. 2-3 fall applications for my KBG/PRG mix 21-28 days apart.
Click to expand...

Oh wow. Definitely didnt know that. Thanks.


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## pennstater2005

simplesimon said:


> Fellow Boglehead here, nice looking lawn!


Appreciate it! Welcome to TLF :thumbup:


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## pennstater2005

situman said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> situman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethofumesate actually kills poa a? My impression was its either hand pull plus pre m.
> 
> 
> 
> It is labeled for it. 2-3 fall applications for my KBG/PRG mix 21-28 days apart.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh wow. Definitely didnt know that. Thanks.
Click to expand...

No problem. It is pretty expensive so I keep my eye out for splits on the Marketplace.


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## pennstater2005

Haven't even started urea yet. 80 today here. Probably soon though


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## pennstater2005

Just getting this thing ready. Nothing doing yet. Muddy mess really.


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## pennstater2005

Prodiamine down.


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## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> Prodiamine down.


Wow, early...good on you!


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## pennstater2005

Might be time for a first mow in the front. The back, with the exception of the lower yard, is ugly.


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## Guarddawg30

pennstater2005 said:


> Might be time for a first mow in the front. The back, with the exception of the lower yard, is ugly.


I am in SW PA...I was able to get a mow in about a week and a half ago...It just needed to be done...This is one of the craziest springs weather wise we have had in a long time..I am itching to get out and get stuff done also..The forecast finally looks promising after today..


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## pennstater2005

Guarddawg30 said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Might be time for a first mow in the front. The back, with the exception of the lower yard, is ugly.
> 
> 
> 
> I am in SW PA...I was able to get a mow in about a week and a half ago...It just needed to be done...This is one of the craziest springs weather wise we have had in a long time..I am itching to get out and get stuff done also..The forecast finally looks promising after today..
Click to expand...

Nice! Probably a touch warmer there I imagine. Hoping the warm weather sticks :thumbup:


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## pennstater2005

Spot sprayed some hairy bittercress and dandelions in the front with crossbow. Put down some Green Magic fertilizer very lightly. Never this early for me typically but needs some full in.

Front is greening up nice


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## pennstater2005

Got 5 yards of mulch delivered to finish the island driveway thing. Well at least my 2/3rds of it anyway. Have 100ft of no dig edging to install tomorrow before mulching.


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## pennstater2005

Sprayed triclopyr on my clover and oxalis. Forgot how much fine fescue I had and man did it injure or kill a bunch of it.

Whoops


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## Chris LI

pennstater2005 said:


> Sprayed triclopyr on my clover and oxalis. Forgot how much fine fescue I had and man did it injure or kill a bunch of it.
> 
> Whoops


How bad? I would call it a "happy accident" to quote Bob Ross, and look for the silver lining that kbg might fill in over time.


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## pennstater2005

Chris LI said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sprayed triclopyr on my clover and oxalis. Forgot how much fine fescue I had and man did it injure or kill a bunch of it.
> 
> Whoops
> 
> 
> 
> How bad? I would call it a "happy accident" to quote Bob Ross, and look for the silver lining that kbg might fill in over time.
Click to expand...

Bad. I didn't mind the FF.


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## pennstater2005

Couple current pics. It's ok.


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## Green

Looks like the burnt grass from Triclopyr mostly recovered?

And are the clumpy grasses in the last photo plugs you added in an adjacent area??


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## pennstater2005

Green said:


> Looks like the burnt grass from Triclopyr mostly recovered?
> 
> And are the clumpy grasses in the last photo plugs you added in an adjacent area??


I'll take some photos later. Some looks better and some is fried. The mix was 70 KBG and 30 FF. I honestly see very little KBG and don't know why.

The little clumps are the Zoysia plugs I planted.


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## Green

pennstater2005 said:


> The little clumps are the Zoysia plugs I planted.


Wow, Zoysia! I knew they looked different but couldn't put my finger on why. Warm season grass guy, now.


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## pennstater2005

Green said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The little clumps are the Zoysia plugs I planted.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, Zoysia! I knew they looked different but couldn't put my finger on why. Warm season grass guy, now.
Click to expand...

Warm season 10'x10' guy :lol:


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## pennstater2005

First soil test sent out Monday to PSU.


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## pennstater2005

Lower yard where I injured or killed fine fescue.



Upper yard where the Zoysia trial area is.



All doing ok despite overall lack of water.


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## pennstater2005

Kids enjoying the yard.









And the zoysia going to sleep!


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## Chris LI

pennstater2005 said:


> And the zoysia going to sleep!
> View attachment 1779


Funny you mention this. I got home from work tonight just after sunset, did a couple of outdoor chores, and thought about transplanting some kbg plugs into the hellstrip near the mailbox as an experiment. Wish I thought about it a month ago, but we'll see if I have some time to do it. I figured that I would hit the area first with some Topramezone first, to set the Zoysia back. My fall climate is longer, so it's still growing slowly.


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