# synergy's 2020 Mazama KBG Mono Reno



## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

I sprayed my lawn with glyphosate + AS tonight as the first step in my renovation. I will be planting a monostand of Mazama KBG here in western MI.

My target seed down date will be the first weekend in August. I have reserved a dingo+harley rake for 8/1 and will try to flatten out the property and prepare a nice seed bed for seed down that evening or the following day.

Here's a pic of the front and back prior to the kill.




No rain in the forecast for tonight, but my neighbor who doesn't seem to care about his lawn decided to water just now so I need to look at the label and see the rainfast time as he is watering into my yard a decent amount and it's only been 2 hours since I finished spraying. Ultimately I'm not too worried as I have another 2, maybe 3 apps of gly planned before seed down.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Good luck man! Looking forward to watching this. How tough was it to gly your current yard? Looks pretty damn nice as is, but know things will look even better.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@jrubb42 I thought it was pretty easy. I used my Chapin 20V backpack sprayer that I haven't used in two years so my walk speed was slightly off compared to my spreadermate, but other than that it was pretty normal. The one exception to that would be holding a piece of cardboard for a border pass.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

jrubb42 said:


> Looks pretty damn nice as is, but know things will look even better.


Thanks! It's currently a nomix and the uneven growth and the lighter appearance of the fine fescue and some other grasses really annoys me and these are the two biggest reasons I am doing the reno.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

synergy0852 said:


> @jrubb42 I thought it was pretty easy. I used my Chapin 20V backpack sprayer that I haven't used in two years so my walk speed was slightly off compared to my spreadermate, but other than that it was pretty normal. The one exception to that would be holding a piece of cardboard for a border pass.


Haha. I guess I meant mentally, killing your grass that you've been working so hard on.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@jrubb42 I've backed out in the past from the thought, but I decided early on this year I was going through with it for the reasons listed above so tonight was a breeze mentally. Almost calming to be honest!


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Good luck with the reno! I'll be following.

KBG will look great!


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## Babameca (Jul 29, 2019)

Following closely...
Good luck!


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

synergy0852 said:


> I have reserved a dingo+harley rake for 8/1 and will try to flatten out the property and prepare a nice seed bed for seed down that evening or the following day.


My first thought on this, is how many weed seeds could go un-germinated with using a Harley rake the day before seed down? Perhaps tenacity will keep those at bay?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

I'm not too worried about weeds to be honest. I feel like no matter what I do I will get weeds and it's something I'm comfortable with taking care of down the road once the grass is established.

On the other hand my HOA can be picky and I feel a brown lawn will be less frowned upon than a dirt lot as most of my neighbors have gone dormant recently and they won't know the difference.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Mowed the lawn today down to 5/8" and bagged clippings as it's still growing. I want to remove as much material as possible before August. I plan to attempt to get it down to 1/2" before running the Harley rake over it.

I've been capturing an image from one of my cameras every night right around 5P to see the changes and make a crude version of a timelapse.

Images are in order from immediately after gly down through this evening which would be the 4th full day.
















It seems the fine fescue was the first to go with PR following closely behind. The TF and KBG seem to be holding on a bit. Hoping for a good idea of the kill by 7/15 which will be one week since spray. I will target the next spray for next weekend, but will monitor winds and take advantage of the best day for spraying the next round of gly.

EDIT: Added pics for days 5-7


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## WyGuy (May 5, 2019)

Looking forward to see how this turns out! I'm also doing reno this fall with a monostand of Mazama this fall but in MN.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Almost all is dead now minus the shadiest parts along the sides of the house and along the back near the foundation. Going to move my next spray up a day or two as I'm watching the weather for the best possible conditions. I edited the above post to include pics of days 5-7 after gly down.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Welcome to the Mazama mono crew(is there such a thing?).

I've been only impressed with it so far.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Welcome to the Mazama mono crew(is there such a thing?).
> 
> I've been only impressed with it so far.


I'm super excited to join the "crew" and can't wait to experience the joy you have this far. At this point I'm feeling like the only thing that worries me is mother nature, other than that I feel confident.

I went to some big box stores the other day to check out some germination blankets for the slopes on the sides of the house and of course they didn't have what it said online and I stumbled upon some Pennington Slopemaster and think I may give that a shot. It's quite a bit cheaper so I may spread it on the whole lawn and give it a shot and a fuzzy feeling for me with my mother nature concerns...I have enough seed to do the whole lawn twice just in case.

Does anyone have experience with using this? Thoughts good or bad?
Pennington Slopemaster


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## ROJ_3030 (Sep 28, 2019)

Very cool! A fellow Michigander and going mono kbg! Definitely subscribed, curious how this will do in our region.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

What slope?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@g-man my front yard sits higher than the back yard so they sloped it along the side of the house more towards the back. It's enough of a slope that the GM1600 tends to slip if it's not completely dry and in the past when I've seeded these areas I've had issues with the seed moving when watering.

I can get a slope degree measurement and some pics later today if you would like to see them...


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Oh, ok. I just see a flat front and back.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

g-man said:


> Oh, ok. I just see a flat front and back.


Ah yes, the glamour shots. The sides are rough and I don't give them much attention to be honest. Hoping to change that with this reno.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Today the conditions were perfect so I took a break from work and went outside to get the second application of gly+AS down. While still green, the shady areas are just now starting to fade in color and show signs of death. Everything in the sunny areas is pretty toasty and the neighbors are starting to give me nasty looks! :thumbup:

I have the rachio set up to begin watering daily on Saturday to encourage weed growth. This schedule is set to stop a day or two before I get the Harley rake as I want it moist, but not too wet. I also set up my seeding schedules to begin 8/2(will push to 8/3 if I can't get it all done on 8/1). I have 4-5 cycles a day for seeding and have already worked it out with my boss that I will work from home for at least 2 weeks after seed down to monitor the moisture levels and will adapt as needed.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Update on progress: I haven't sprayed anymore gly than the 2 apps. I've been fallowing for a couple weeks now and have seen no weeds emerge which got me wondering if my pre-emergent was still holding out. I sprayed .275 oz/M back on March 30. I believe this works out to be the .75lbs/A rate. It was unusually hot this year and I figured it would have wore off by this time. Today marks exactly 4 months since the pre-emergent went down and according to the label that's the time window for control which obviously can be shorter or longer due to weather variables. I'm not too worried overall since I will be running the Harley rake Saturday and chewing up the top 2" or so. I imagine I will have more weed pressure afterwards and a mistake I will learn from should I do this again some day.

On Monday night I grabbed my sunjoe from my buddies place where I have been storing it and raked the yard to remove as much dead material as I could. I'm debating whether or not to run this again 90° to Mondays pattern tomorrow after the yard waste is picked up or just let it ride and see if the Harley rake will ground it up Saturday. I had called 811 and had utilities marked last week and proceeded to pull up the communication lines running to the house. Most of these were .5-1" under the surface and the Harley rake would have destroyed them. They are now 4-6" under the surface. I also redid the front downspout underground drainage I had installed with irrigation a few years back as I was not happy with how they placed it in a low spot creating a pond everytime a decent rain came.

Current state of the lawn:








Plans for this weekend starting tomorrow:
Friday:
1. Power rake 90° to Mondays run? TBD
2. Spread my last bag of Milo from a year or two ago and SOP @ 2lb/M
3. Mark sprinklers with flags

Saturday:
1. Harley rake
2. Add rock to back near foundation to give the pup an area to use as she goes nuclear on the lawn when relieving herself. This will also make maintaining the property easier and allow us to have more plants out back.
3. Seed
4. Roll with GM1600
5. Spray Tenacity + Azoxy (Will use propiconazole after germination has occurred per the label. Azoxy label suggests best time is at seeding)
6. Spread Slopemaster to the slopes on the side of the house at a minimum....depending on how that spreads I will determine if I will do the whole lawn or return the bags to Lowe's.
7. Crack a cold one and water, water, water

I've discussed my renovation in length at work with my boss since April and he has so graciously agreed to let me work from home to monitor moisture levels until I have an established lawn again before I need to report back to the shop. I'm going to start off my watering with 5 minute cycles every few hours and adjust as needed throughout the process.

If the lawn does as well as my test pot I will be extremely thrilled with the Mazama! I am super impressed as I only water this pot once every 3 days, I haven't fertilized at all, and it's been through a couple weeks of 90s and I can only imagine the temperature the roots experienced in the pot must be higher than what they'll experience in the lawn.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Good luck, I think you will enjoy the Mazama.


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@synergy0852

When did you plant your seed in that pot?

I also had an oh sh*t moment on my preM. I put down less, but still nervous in the back of my mind. I do have weeds germination during my fallowing. However with the Harley rake, I'd imagine you are in the clear.

Good luck to you along this very stressful journey. At least it has been for me!!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Slingblade_847 I planted that 5/8 and had first signs of germination on 5/14. I guess that makes it 77 DAG today. It was only a month after germ and we hit 90s for 2-3 weeks and usually we don't hit 90 until late August around here and even then it's only a few days. I honestly thought it would die cooking in that pot which gets full sun all day long.

Not sure why, but I haven't been stressed at all during this. I've been preparing for nearly two years now with work getting in the way and screwing up my plans the last two years so maybe that's why I'm not too stressed. I have a feeling once seed is down is when I will begin to feel the stress as it's out of my hands in a way at that point and t-storm could ruin all the planning and work leading up to it.


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

Good luck. Looking forward to seeing how the Harley rake works out. I might try that next year in my back yard.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Zip-a-Dee-Zee said:


> Good luck. Looking forward to seeing how the Harley rake works out. I might try that next year in my back yard.


Thank you. I'll do my best to get pics of the process. Sometimes I get in the zone and just forget to document things I do.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

ksturfguy said:


> Good luck, I think you will enjoy the Mazama.


Thanks! I agree. Not expecting much the remainder of this season but I'll be excited all winter long for next season!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

synergy0852 said:


> Saturday:
> 1. Harley rake
> 2. Add rock to back near foundation to give the pup an area to use as she goes nuclear on the lawn when relieving herself. This will also make maintaining the property easier and allow us to have more plants out back.
> 3. Seed
> ...


Step five there hadn't occurred to me for my upcoming renovation. Looks like I'm going to need to work this into my plans for sure! I see you're spraying your applications, which I will plan on doing for the Prop as I'll need to purchase. However I do have a bag of Scott's Disease X (azoxy) and have plenty to put down at the preventative rate when I put seed down. Any reason a granular app would be I'll advised versus getting a liquid application down? Prop is fairly inexpensive so I don't picking up a bottle, but azoxy liquid is quite an investment and not sure it's in the budget.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@OnTheLawn The granular azoxy will work fine. There's a little spot on the label where it says it can be applied after seeding or at seed germination.


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## SpeedNess (May 21, 2020)

Looks like a lot of hard work leading up to this weekend, best of luck. Not gonna lie, seeing your gly timelapse stressed me out a little as your beautiful lawn turned brown by the day, Im sure is going to look way better but it still hurt me a little .

Also, how nice of your boss to understand your lawn situation and let you WFH to keep up with the watering. Looking forward to your results.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Following this!

It will end up looking great.

I battled back and forth between Mazama and a BlueBank mono - settled on the latter. Going to be interesting comparing journals this time next year!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Yesterday didn't go as planned. Got the dingo first thing in the morning and went right to work in the back yard. I really struggled to get the results with the harley rake that I was after and in hindsight I feel it was a waste of money. I would've been better off bringing in some top soil for the low spots I think. That considered it turned out ok after a lot more manual labor than I expected. A lot more hand levelling was required after raking than I thought there would be.

As I stated previously I'm terrible at documenting with pictures and I only managed to get one picture early on in the day before I really got into "the zone."


I was almost done with the front when the harley rake found the fiber line as the dingo climbed up onto the sidewalk and the harley took a dive deeper into the soil than I had planned. I aborted all my plans for after the harley at this point so seed did not go down. The fiber will be getting fixed tomorrow and I've already dug a trench 6 or more inches deep so hopefully I can get the tech to help me out and get it under the driveway instead of waiting for the company to call a contractor to bury it which would push my seeding out a week or more.

In the end I have no one to blame but myself as I didn't dig on that side of the driveway as I thought they used a boring machine to get it under the driveway so it must be pretty deep right? Wrong! During this whole process I have yet to find a cable buried where it was marked with paint. The gas was 2' off, fiber was 12" off at best, cable was 6" off. The fiber I struck yesterday wasn't even close as it was painted in a straight line and was actually on an angle and didn't get to the straight line until it was at the driveway. Lesson learned and I will not make the same mistake in the future should I do this again.

The sky opened up and dropped an inch this morning while I was sleeping so maybe this was a blessing in disguise not being able to get seed down yesterday. It's supposed to rain all day today and into tomorrow now and the new plan is to get the fiber in tomorrow and bury it and then get seed down if the rain quits. I might push this back to Tuesday or Wednesday to let the soil dry a bit so it doesn't stick to the greensmaster when rolling in. The rain revealed a couple low spots in the backyard but the front is looking good. I will address the low spots out back before seeding when the rain quits.


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

Sorry to hear that you had an unexpected setback yesterday. That's a bummer when you're planning to have seed down by day's end. I've been surprised by the amount of hand raking I've had to do so I was hoping you would have had better success with the Harley rake. Good luck finishing things up this week.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Everything happens for a reason during a Reno. Luckily you got to see the low spots.

I'm glad I left 3+ weeks to fallow...I'm learning quite a bit about my irrigation issues and low wet spots.

Good luck next week!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

AT&T came out yesterday and ran a new fiber line and I was able to pull it under the driveway while they were here so we're back in business! After work I went out and buried the fiber and smoothed everything over out front. I'll never understand the reason behind why they do things the way they do. The fiber is run from my neighbors two houses down on the east, it goes under my driveway into the cylinder enclosure on the west side then proceeds to turn around and run back under my driveway before popping up on the east side of my driveway and along the east side of the house where the final connection is.....mind blown.

The dirt is still super wet from Sunday's rain and I am just waiting for it to dry out to the point where I can walk on it without sinking so I can get in the backyard to move a little dirt around and fill in my low spots before I continue with the seeding and everything that follows. I'd love to do it today, but if I'm being realistic I doubt it will be dry enough until Wednesday/Thursday. We've been having days with highs in the 70s lately with a lot of cloud cover and high humidity with some pop up rain showers that aren't helping the situation. The forecast going forward is showing a warming trend and some more sun with falling humidity! Regardless...the moment it's ready I will rest assured be out there getting after it.

I brought the Dingo+Harley Rake back yesterday and the gentleman asked how it went and I explained it didn't go as well as I expected. I proceeded to tell him I felt like the harley rake was missing some pins and he came out to check it over and confirmed it was indeed missing hardware. The guy told me had the pins been in there my experience would have been much better and I shouldn't write off future use should I ever need to do something with it again. I didn't expect any type of compensation, but he gave me 10% off the rental so that was nice of him.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Well the humidity dropped enough and the sun popped out with some wind today and everything dried out enough to get out and get everything done. Seeded @ 2.5lbs/M, rolled with GM1600, sprayed tenacity @ 5oz/A, azoxy @ .4oz/M, D10+ @ 1.5oz/M, and added AS @ 1lb/M to boot. Spread the pennington slopemaster on the yard, only used 6 of the 8 bags I bought as it was a PIA to spread.

I could not get it to flow through the Lesco holes fully opened, tried my scotts wizz and that worked much better, but I got sick of constantly refilling it so I called my coworker who lives nearby and asked if I could borrow his little scotts spreader as it had the same style opening as the wizz and that worked better but I had to fill the hopper 12 times to get down the 6 bags.

I watered for 6 minutes per zone and started to see some light pooling around 5 minutes. Tomorrow the rachio is scheduled to start the schedules I made weeks ago which are 3 mins/zone @ 8A, 11A, 2P, 5P, & 8P. I will monitor the soil visually throughout the day to make sure it isn't drying out and will modify the rachio schedules as needed.

Hoping to see germination around 5-7 days as test pot was 6 days almost to the hour.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

@synergy0852 nice! Glad you were able to get everything down! Sounds like it was kind of a pain, but you managed to get it done, that's all that matters. Sending good vibes your way for weather and germination!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Thanks @jrubb42! I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your test plot as well. Curious how the different cultivars stack up against each other.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Pictures?

I think you picked a great seed date. These cool temps should help with keeping the soil moist.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

g-man said:


> Pictures?
> 
> I think you picked a great seed date. These cool temps should help with keeping the soil moist.


I'm terrible at getting pictures to document a process, I always get in a hurry and forget.

I just went out to check moisture before the next run and snapped some.

This corner back here is all clay and I couldn't get the soil prepped like I wanted...




Grabbed this pic so you could see the slope I referred to previously @g-man 


Added this stone to give the pup a place to do her business outside of the lawn. Tried to make it curvy to reduce trimming maintenance as much as possible. Grass never grew well here anyways with the rain falling through the deck boards creating small channels in the soil.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

Good luck with your seeding! I'm also renovating my lawn with mazama & bluebank. I'll be following your journal to see how the pennington slopemaster work out. I have a very steep backyard.


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@synergy0852 
Best of luck to ya my man. I'm a few days out from dropping seed on my Reno. I'd kill for how level your lawn meets your sidewalks and driveway.

One thing on the rock beds...have you thought about edging to keep it contained?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Slingblade_847 I decided to go with a bigger stone (1-2")hoping that would keep them in place. If it doesn't I will put some edging in.

The lawn never used to be that level with driveway and sidewalk. I've done some work to it over the years... It's still not perfect. I am already planning some sand next year.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Not much to report so far. Been dialing in the watering all week. Running out every hour and a half to check on everything and make adjustments to my irrigation schedule to accommodate what I see.

Neighbors landscaper didn't want to make his job harder so he ran over some of my yard on the side of the house to get around their AC and sucked up a bunch of the slopemaster. The seed was still pressed into the ground from rolling and undisturbed leaving me to believe it was an unnecessary step for me to put the slopemaster down.

Truth be told I can't see the seed very well in some spots and second guessing if I got good coverage, but I swear I saw seed everywhere on Tuesday evening. Starting to think the watering moved a little dirt around and some seed may be covered which is ultimately a good thing.

I thought I had this all figured out but I'm quickly learning I'm not as smart as I thought I was! :shock:


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@synergy0852 i bet you wanted to rip him from that lawn mower. At least it didn't happen day of germination. If I saw it happen in person, not sure if I could stop myself barreling out of the house screaming like there was a fire.

How did you spread your seed? Thinking of mixing mine with some Milo then spread.

I think @Di3soft put seed down the day after you and claimed it hard to see seed as well. This is good info for when I drop so I don't go into panic mode. However both of you appear much more cool and collected vs. me.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Slingblade_847 I thought about scooping a drop spreader, but ultimately I'm out of storage in the garage now with my lawn care addiction so I used my lesco 80lb spreader. I tried to get everything within the bounds of the dirt and not on any concrete/asphalt. I then put an extra pound of seed in my wizz spreader and hit all the edges and dumped the remaining seed back in the bag.

I was slightly triggered by the landscaper but when I went to inspect the damage that quickly faded. Next week when I hear him fire up his mower I'm going to go ask that he not do that and just use his trimmer for that area for a few weeks. He trims after mowing anyways so I don't see it costing him much extra time to be respectful of my property until it's established.

***Side note...just did my morning walk to inspect moisture levels and I see a single seed has germinated. This is absolutely mind blowing for me as my pot test showed 6 days for signs of germination. Finished seeding on Tuesday around 8pm so this would be 84-85 hours post seeding or approximately 3.5 days.***


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Don't want to be a Debby downer but it would be a weed coming out from all the watering.

I hope it's grass though!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@JerseyGreens It's coming out of one of the seeds but yes you're correct it could be a weed even if the label says there's no weeds!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I'm sending green dust your way man. Watching this closely and can't wait to see the night germ shots!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Weeds aren't real.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

OnTheLawn said:


> Weeds aren't real.


 :lol:


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

JerseyGreens said:


> I'm sending green dust your way man. Watching this closely and can't wait to see the night germ shots!


I'll bust out my tactical flashlight tonight and take a peek. I'll post pics once it's widespread germ.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

I went back and looked at my reno journal and looks like I saw germination later in the day on Day 5. You should be getting close!


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Looking good. I have consider converting my front to a monostand. I think you are going to eventually want some sort of edging under the deck to keep the rocks controlled and prevent grass from invading the rocks.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The seed seems to hide under the soil after it breaks the outer shell. You should see good germination tomorrow or monday.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

C'mon grass babies! :clapping:


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@synergy0852 baby grass pictures?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@g-man They're hard to spot. Nothing widespread yet. Rain shower just rolled through and like magic I found a couple(maybe the sun wasn't allowing me to see them I don't know.) Will update with pics later tonight hopefully...


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@g-man Here's some pics.







.....and this just hit me....hoping the seed is pressed into the dirt far enough to withstand this. It's coming down about 2-3"/hr right now and I can't even see the dirt with all the water on top.





They're saying 60mph wind gusts with it...fingers crossed


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Nothing to do right now. Just wait to see what happens.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

g-man said:


> Nothing to do right now. Just wait to see what happens.


Exactly. It's the one thing that's not in our control so no use stressing over it. I bought enough seed to do the yard 2x so I will wait and see what pops up and made it through and then try this again!

It definitely could have been worse. It went as fast as it came. The max rate was just shy of 2"/hr and only dropped .6" but it all came at once. Now it's just a light rain. Honestly the washout up front wasn't terrible...here's what's on the sidewalk.


Something good I can takeaway from this is I know my relocation of the downspout pop up I moved works significantly better! No lake on the east side of the house!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The water looks clear and I don't see a lot of soil on the sidewalk, I think you are good.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@g-man I sure hope so. How long would you wait before trying to get more seed down? Another 5-10 days to evaluate and let some stragglers germinate before that decision?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Yes. In two days you will see if you had storm damage because you won't see grass in the water path. I seriously doubt you had damage.


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

Shoot...once that storm pushed past us I started wondering about your renovation. Hope everything is OK.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I think you should be OK.

You would be surprised what the grass seed can do to anchor itself in 6 days especially if you've been on a good watering schedule.


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@synergy0852

When I saw this storm coming you and the others doing renos were the first thing I thought of.

Have you been able to assess any damage, if there was any?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Slingblade_847 I took a walk around the perimeter and spread some of the washed out slopemaster apart and found a ton of germinating seeds held within so I'm not terribly optimistic. Its hard to say what the interior of the yard looks like but the front is much better off than the back as far as washout. A lot of the seed I could see in days past is now gone, hopefully covered by dirt that moved around but I inevitably lost some.

Right now I am just going to stay calm and wait until they are tall enough to see where I have and don't have coverage before throwing more seed down. I have 12lbs left so I can do the entire yard again if need be but I don't think that's the case. Will update when I have a better idea. Weather has been high 80s with forecasted 90s on the way for another 5 days so I'm just trying to keep the seedlings alive.


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

Oh man! Well if you are anything like me, you are probably seeing 10x more damage than there actually is. Keep calm and carry on. Rooting for ya!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Slingblade_847 Went out with flashlight last night and saw a lot of germination...even in the back where I was slightly worried. Going to go out again tonight. It's very hard to see the KBG seedlings during the day!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@synergy0852 go in the am right before sunrise. The side light some the sun makes them all visible.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

I can see a good bit more this morning. Mostly around the perimeter I am beginning to see a green haze forming. Can't tell if the middle washed out, isn't as warm as perimeter due to concrete/asphalt causing slower germination, the extra seed I put down on the perimeter with the wizz has higher density than the interior, or if I just can't see it from a distance.

The stuff I can see popped up and is about a 1/2" and not really doing much at this point. I believe new seed to be germinating everyday still. I'm cutting back on the watering just a touch and running longer times on others at this point to get it nice and wet and then let it dry out a good bit before the next watering. It really helps working from home as I can check on the moisture multiple times a day.

Is this the sprout and pout stage @g-man? I didn't really notice much of this stalling out in my test pot grow and I know it's not an apples to apples comparison but I was expecting a little more grow after seeing the results of the pot grow.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

synergy0852 said:


> Right now I am just going to stay calm and wait until they are tall enough to see where I have and don't have coverage before throwing more seed down. I have 12lbs left so I can do the entire yard again if need be but I don't think that's the case. Will update when I have a better idea. Weather has been high 80s with forecasted 90s on the way for another 5 days so I'm just trying to keep the seedlings alive.


Feel for you man. I am in the same boat. I have 1-2" deep channels where the washout streamed through on my slopes.
When you throw more seed down, will you rake to get them in the soil or will you scatter seeds on the surface and cover with something? Or something else?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Well to be honest @Mark B I am hoping no extra seed will be necessary. Within the next few days I'm hoping to see more germination in some of these areas. I think some of the seed washed out but some didn't and if that's the case I may just push for a grow in rather than tossing more seed.

If I do have to toss more down I will do the rake method to keep the weight of the greensmower off the baby grass until it's ready for it's first cut.


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

Sounds like a good plan&#128077;&#127996;
I am wondering how much disturbance to the existing grass babies raking would cause in very thin areas.
Would you maybe run the rake through the soil and overly thin areas of grass babies and simply start again in those particular spots? 
I have channels of washout much narrower than a rake where there is no seed left, so maybe I will use a hand fork.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I doubt you are at pout yet. What about posting some pictures?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Mark B Just took a peek at your journal, I have one of these that I would probably use....I'm not overly worried about ripping the babies up. I think they will have a decent amount of roots by the time I determine if I will reseed and letting the soil dry a touch before doing so allows them to hold better I feel.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

g-man said:


> I doubt you are at pout yet. What about posting some pictures?


I will get some on my lunch break and tag you again. Thanks for the help!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

g-man said:


> I doubt you are at pout yet. What about posting some pictures?


Man I better get prepared for our awesome mentor, @g-man, to push me for pictures once I get germ...no pressure!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

@synergy0852 what was your application rate on the Azoxy at seed down?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

synergy0852 said:


> Seeded @ 2.5lbs/M, rolled with GM1600, sprayed tenacity @ 5oz/A, azoxy @ .4oz/M, D10+ @ 1.5oz/M, and added AS @ 1lb/M to boot.


@JerseyGreens I used this, I went with the higher rate just to feel good I suppose. Probably could have gotten away with the lower rate of .2 but I figured I'd protect my investment the best I could. Propiconazole will go down in a couple weeks or at least that's the plan. Check the label on your azoxy product to verify rates as it may not be the same as the one I have.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Thank you!

I have the 2SC select - a lot less of the main ingredient than WDG.

I'll go on the light end. The label doesn't show a rate for new seeding. Wish it did!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@g-man Things got hectic at work and I was putting out fires all afternoon and then a wedding rehearsal this evening so I didn't get pics during lunch.....I did just do my nightly walk with a flashlight and snapped a couple and will post those below.

Update: Good and Bad news. First the good! I have widespread germination visible to my eye now on the interior of the yard! At this time I don't believe I will need to throw more seed at it! There are a few bare spots, but they are not that big and I think they'll fill in just fine.

Now the bad, the grade in the back has been ruined. I think the GM1600 will push some of the bumps and dips around a bit if I get on there while it's moist, but we shall see. I already planned on doing some sand capping next spring or fall depending on how the lawn does next spring.

Without further ado:


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Looking good!


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## Andy87MN (Jun 21, 2020)

Love the flashlight shot. :thumbup:


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

:thumbup: and no significant rain storms in the forecast.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Beautiful shots!!


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

@synergy0852 , the blue pellets in your lawn, are those the pennington slopemaster? How well did it hold the seeds down in the slope during the heavy rain?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@shadowlawnjutsu Yes that's what they are. The slopes held, however the rain was nearly sideways out of the west so my neighbors house blocked my west side slope and my house blocked my east side slope.

In the back yard they were picked up and moved to the edge of my property carrying a decent amount of seed with them as the areas where they settled are way more sense with seedlings than they should be. I thought about raking them around, but didn't want to disturb the seedlings.

Hope this explanation helps you make your decision...as for me, I would save my money next time and just roll them into the soil personally or try an erosion blanket.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

synergy0852 said:


> @shadowlawnjutsu Yes that's what they are. The slopes held, however the rain was nearly sideways out of the west so my neighbors house blocked my west side slope and my house blocked my east side slope.
> 
> In the back yard they were picked up and moved to the edge of my property carrying a decent amount of seed with them as the areas where they settled are way more sense with seedlings than they should be. I thought about raking them around, but didn't want to disturb the seedlings.
> 
> Hope this explanation helps you make your decision...as for me, I would save my money next time and just roll them into the soil personally or try an erosion blanket.


Thank @synergy0852, I actually have an erosion blanket but I'm planning roll it out only when there's heavy rain forecast before germination.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

I just had a feeling @g-man was going to ask for pics today so I figured I'd beat him to it. :lol:

6 DAG Progress pics:


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Looking good! You will be mowing it before you know it lol


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

ksturfguy said:


> Looking good! You will be mowing it before you know it lol


Not really sure when to begin the mowing being this is my first Reno, but I was thinking about 21 DAG which would be end of August beginning of September. When was your first mow?


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

It was about 15 DAG. I'll fully admit it didn't really need it then. Day 21 would probably be good unless yours grows faster.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

It's growing pretty slow right now. Seems like the seedlings grow to about 1/2" then stop. I snagged some 13-5-8 ProPeat last night from YardMastery sale to try out. Thinking after my first mow about tossing down 20lbs of that. (.52lbs N/M, .2lbs P/M, .32lbs K/M) It says it's slow release so I may spray a tiny amount of AMS+Propiconazole along with it to get that foliar boost and then let the ProPeat take over and supplement with AMS sprays along the way.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

That sounds like a great plan! Looking good so far and glad the washout doesn't seem to bad at this point.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Nice shots. I see the greenery!

I used proPeat this past Spring. Wasn't a huge fan. It says slow release but it pushed my growth very quickly. I forgot but I think it's a combo of slow release plus AMS. People love the stuff though!

Love the idea of hitting it with Prop. I'll be doing the same around 3-4 weeks post Germ.

You are in cruise control sir. Just sit back and watch it grow.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@JerseyGreens I was kind of wondering if it truly was slow release. The label says the N is Ammonium Sulfate didn't say coated or anything. I think they say slow release because their claim is the carbon holds the nutrients so they don't leach away or something, which I could see. Decided to give it a shot at the discounted price and I need a little P for the seedlings. Soil has plenty I believe but still a little low on the soil test.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I don't know about propeat, but XGRN really is slow release and it also uses AMS. I had a screwed up and dropped too much. The border areas are not growing faster than the rest.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@g-man what'd you think about my plan to drop ProPeat 13-5-8 and supplement with AMS sprays of maybe .1-.125lbs N/M weekly/biweekly?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Sound ok. I would avoid foliar. Spray it and water it in.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

g-man said:


> Sound ok. I would avoid foliar. Spray it and water it in.


That's what I was thinking as well. Spray it and leave it on for a few minutes, no more than 30, and then wash it into the soil. Not going to get on the lawn for another week or two for these apps. Thanks for your input, priceless as always.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

8:15am. No pictures.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

g-man said:


> 8:15am. No pictures.


Definitely slacking today :lol: . It's amazing how different it can look from going to sleep the night before and waking up the following day. The areas that aren't as dense with germination are starting to slowly green up. I'm seeing some of the oldest seedlings start to tiller and I swear I'm still getting new germination daily. I want to start cutting back on the water slightly, but I think I'll let it go the full 21 days I had Rachio scheduled to do. I've already cut out half my watering time slots and increased the length of the ones I've decided to keep.

I have to leave Thursday to head to WI and I'm slightly worried about the irrigation schedules. When it was high 80s low 90s with high humidity and low wind the schedules worked great. Yesterday it barely broke 80, high wind, and low humidity and I had to supplement between scheduled waterings as the surface was drying out in between. This all makes sense to me but it's still crazy to think I could use more water when it's 80 than 90. Of course my mind and I'm sure many others sometimes forget there are other variables at play like wind and humidity.

Pics from the security cams will have to hold you over for now @g-man:


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Wind plays a big factor in the evaporation. Use the cam to check the moisture right before the next scheduled irrigation. You want the leaves to dry a bit between watering. You can tweak the AM to be a bit longer and less frequent, then the PMs shorter more frequent. I remember taking my son to kings island and checking the cams and triggering the rachio.

Yes, you will continue to have germination of some seeds. It is normal. Some are ahead of the others. By saturday/sunday is when I would start to evaluate if you should drop more seeds and where.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@g-man with the flashlight at night I can see grass in the areas that don't show up on cam or during the day to my eyes. No bare spots as big as the one you had on your reno last year. I would say maybe a couple areas the size of a dinner plate or so don't have any seedlings. I figure these should all fill in either later this fall or by next spring.

At this point I'm leaning towards not dropping anymore seed, but if I take a night video/pics with flashlight would you mind giving your advice on what you would do after having been down this road a time or two yourself?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Sure. Just wait until Sunday for the video.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

g-man said:


> Sure. Just wait until Sunday for the video.


Easy enough. I know there will be a notification in my email first thing Monday morning if I don't!


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

If a dinner plate is the biggest area with no germination I would say you should be good to go. That will fill in by next May or June most likely. Good work!


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

synergy0852 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > Sound ok. I would avoid foliar. Spray it and water it in.
> ...


Just curious why you would want to avoid foliar applications of N and when it's okay to do so. I don't have a lot of experience with spray applications of Nitrogen but I'm planning to spoon feed my seedlings with urea in a couple of weeks.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Zip-a-Dee-Zee the seedlings are more sensitive than mature grass and AS is considered "hot" and will burn even the most mature grass if applied incorrectly so I can imagine seedlings being even more sensitive.

So.....this just happened an hour ago.

Checked back on the camera I have continuously recording and see an Amazon van parked there. Rewind a little more and I see him pull up, turn into my driveway then turn back towards the road. Hops out and delivers package to neighbor and leaves. Ahhhhh the joys of a reno....


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Some people are the absolute worst... You can put caution tape if you'd like. I had to after my disaster.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

JerseyGreens said:


> Some people are the absolute worst... You can put caution tape if you'd like. I had to after my disaster.


I did that a couple years ago when working on small areas in the front yard but ever since I started reel mowing all the neighbors keep their kids, dogs, etc off and didn't see it necessary. It is what it is, I'm sure it'll be fine but I did file a report against the driver.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

dang! Well hopefully not too much damage will be done, looks like germination is going well so they should be fine at this point. Nice progress so far and can't wait for more results.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@OnTheLawn thanks for the vote of confidence!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

My hell strip is a stomping ground for dogs, kids on bikes, car tires, and everything in between. I did the caution tape for my reno. Neighbors keep busting my chops but I'm taking no chances.

Never imagined my reno would get so much attention around the neighborhood. Everyone is talking about it. And most of them have never heard of the concept.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@bf7 I saw this in your journal the other day and it brought back memories. I'm a little upset it happened, but at the end of the day it's just grass and it's tougher than you'd expect. I think it'll all work out in the end.

My neighbors think I'm crazy but they love to stop and chat if they catch me out there. I found out last week they had a secret pool going as to what I was doing. None of them guessed right, most thought I was installing irrigation. (have had that for 3 years now, but they never see it run as it finishes before sunrise)


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

I will definitely be taping off the areas. My surrounding neighbors are all lawn nuts, so they get it. It's the rest of the neighborhood and the dogs and the mailman who walks across lawns that have me worried.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Did you tank mix the Tenacity and Azoxy? Thanks!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@JerseyGreens yes I did.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

well thank you. Any pictures from today?


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

synergy0852 said:


> @Zip-a-Dee-Zee the seedlings are more sensitive than mature grass and AS is considered "hot" and will burn even the most mature grass if applied incorrectly so I can imagine seedlings being even more sensitive.
> 
> So.....this just happened an hour ago.
> 
> Checked back on the camera I have continuously recording and see an Amazon van parked there. Rewind a little more and I see him pull up, turn into my driveway then turn back towards the road. Hops out and delivers package to neighbor and leaves. Ahhhhh the joys of a reno....


I just want to comment that this sort of close up of your Germ rate is impressive. This is about to look stellar in the coming weeks.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

JerseyGreens said:


> well thank you. Any pictures from today?


No pics today, but I will leave you with this....much like the kill I am trying to take a shot from my one camera everyday at the same time. This is what I have so far. I think I missed a day or two in there somewhere....


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Looks nice. I think by nature we throw down more seed (heck even fert, anything granular) around the perimeter making it look fuller quicker...I see the rest coming in now.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Two days, no pictures.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@g-man I'm out of town, but I did take some night shots just in case you asked. 

Got a new phone yesterday and what better to take pics of to test the new camera than some grass right?
I don't have time to sort through pics so I'll just post them all!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

That looks awesome.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

g-man said:


> That looks awesome.


It's one of the denser germ areas. Will grab video of entire thing with flashlight Sunday night.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Looks fantastic


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

That looks freakin awesome!

How long have you been using D10+? On your pre Reno lawn obviously. Want to get into the Subvert products but haven't seen anyone knowledgeable review them just yet.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@JerseyGreens I just started using it this spring. Only did 4 light apps before killing the lawn. I have no clear evidence to whether it helped or not but I will say before I smoked it off I've never seen it look that good in 90° heat before. I throw so much stuff on the lawn it's hard to say it was D10+ that was helping. I will continue to use it on the Mazama once I get back to spraying again, but will take it easy as I believe I saw that it can make sprays a little hot. Will pull plugs before end of season and take pics of roots.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

So I returned home from my trip out of town and took the back way into the neighborhood to get a peak at the backyard from a distance. I was stunned when I saw it(only gone for 30 hours, but it looked much different).

Went for a quick walk around and dragged out the hose in the front to get some dry spots as it was windy the last 2 days and the sprinklers are easily affected by the wind. In the back I triggered a zone and deflected some water with my hands to the dry spots(this is why there is standing water because I got home shortly after my last scheduled run of the day. This will all be gone in a couple hours so I'm not worried.)

Snapped a ton of pics to keep @g-man happy  . Not quite Sunday yet, but do you think this will all fill in by October or next spring? I'm leaning towards yes but I'd love to hear your thoughts.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Looking very good!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

From first sight of germination (8/10) through last night which would be 12 DAG.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Looking good, you will have a lawn again soon!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

bernstem said:


> Looking good, you will have a lawn again soon!


I believe this is the "pout" phase everyone refers to right now. Seedlings about an inch high and some tillering going on but no vertical growth on the oldest seedlings. I'm a very impatient individual so this is hard for me!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Right on schedule. Did you cut back on the watering by any chance?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

JerseyGreens said:


> Right on schedule. Did you cut back on the watering by any chance?


I change my schedule based on conditions but I'm still watering 4 times a day and plan on doing so until 2 days before my first mow. I had like 8 waterings to start with but found 4 worked better. I think this is one of the things we are left to figure out for ourselves as every property and geographical region will be different. For instance if I were to water 10 minutes I'd be flooded. I find 3 minutes in cooler parts of the day is good and 5 minutes during peak sun works best for me.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Next few days should be hot. Don't let it dry up. Do you have pictures of the thin spots?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@g-manI do have some of the backyard from above on the deck this morning, but apparently 108MP pictures are too much to upload  . Will have to reduce resolution later and try to get some more. I will tag you again later.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

synergy0852 said:


> JerseyGreens said:
> 
> 
> > Right on schedule. Did you cut back on the watering by any chance?
> ...


This is my biggest struggle right now. Some areas have puddles others have the peat just starting to dry out. I am getting tired or changing out nozzles on my sprinklers!!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

JerseyGreens said:


> synergy0852 said:
> 
> 
> > JerseyGreens said:
> ...


I errored on the side of not letting it dry out and dealt with the puddles by hand watering the dryer areas when the puddles got too large to give them time to dry out. Germination was slower in the puddled areas. My thoughts are just don't let the seed sit in water constantly. As long as it dries out a bit in between the addition of more water(for me this is overnight) they should be fine and not rot.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Alright @g-man here are my "worst" areas. Quotes because they don't seem that bad to me, but I can't wait to get your opinion.

As you can see they all have some plants in them, but they aren't as dense as other areas where I'm assuming the seed washed to.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The first picture and the last could use some, but don't give them any special treatment. I think they will fill in once you start doing nitrogen.

What are you plans for the first cut? What hoc?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

g-man said:


> The first picture and the last could use some, but don't give them any special treatment. I think they will fill in once you start doing nitrogen.
> 
> What are you plans for the first cut? What hoc?


I was thinking 20-21 DAG for first cut, but I'm really just waiting for the "pout" or pause to be over to go cut it. I'm planning to mow around 7/8-1" to start off. The GM1600 definitely provides a better cut the lower I go and that's just the nature of the beast.

After I mow I want to spray more tenacity at 4oz/A rate along with some propiconazole and light AS kicker. I will also spread that ProPeat 13-5-8 after the first mow and before I spray. I plan to let this sit for 30 mins or so and then water it all in.

This sound like a decent plan?


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

Just wanted to comment your reno has some similarities to mine. I too am experiencing a small wash out 6 days after seed down (less than what you had), and I'm dealing with some stubborn clay soil like you had in your backyard. Makes me feel so much better to see you are having success!


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@synergy0852 
Photo updates?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Not really much to report @Slingblade_847. Looks about the same as before. Some of the oldest seedlings have darkened and put on some growth, but the younger ones are stalled out. From a distance it almost looks like a lawn again, up close looks like a lot of growing/filling in will be necessary in the light spots. I've been taking most of my pics with the highest resolution on new camera and they are bigger than allowed by postimage by a meg or 2 so I can't upload them....let me know if this Google photos link works....Try This

Today the Geek Squad visited my neighbors and decided it'd be fun to do some "offroading" right in the same place Amazon did nearly a week ago to the day. Amazon gave me $100 for my troubles, I don't expect the same from Best Buy, ha!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The link worked. You will need to mow this weekend.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

First mow at the 3 week mark. Great results!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@g-man that was my plan. If I can find time during working from home this week I am going to backlap the mower and get it ready. I thought about using the fiskars, but have decided to just go for it with the GM1600 hoping to flatten out some of the damage from the derecho and be mindful when turning. I'm hoping some of the less mature plants root a little better because right now I don't think they could make it through a mowing. Today I only watered once and it was by hand. Overcast all day with a 10 minute drizzle, humidity was up there and the winds were low. Can I start to push my grass to root deeper with maybe a light watering in the morning and one mid afternoon at this point? (Well after the 90° days pass I mean) I don't see too much for new germination anymore, but I did see some a day or two ago.

@JerseyGreens it won't be much longer for you either I suppose?


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

I'm at 4 full days since seed down. Waiting on germ at this point.

Go for it with the GM. I'm going use a manual but am lightly rolling it with my lawn roller before first mow at an attempt to flatten out grade.

No fungus issues for you - looks like Azoxy is proving useful at seed down.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You are not going to speed up the rooting too much unless you use a chemical. Peptides is an option, but don't worry about it. While you only see 1in of leaf, in my experience there is +2in of root. Yes play around with the irrigation. Overcast, water less. Just keep it moist and you should be good.

I used the 220E on my first mow. I think I had it at 3/4in with groomer off and high (out of the way). I turned off the irrigation that day to let it dry up and get firm. I did straight passes and turned in the neighbor's lawn. Low speed walk firmly. Once I was done, then I did a ams + irrigation.

While the machine is 300lb, the load is spread into 3 rollers, so it is not that bad. The grass blades might look flat, but they stand up by the next day.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@JerseyGreens not sure why I thought you were only a few days behind me! No fungus issues, conditions were ripe with nights north of 70 lately. Lots of spider webs that made me do double takes in the morning.

@g-man everything you just said is what I planned to do with the addition of propiconazole and still debating D10+ with what Paul's Prime Cuts experienced, but I think it'll be fine if I wash off the leaves. Also planning on spreading that ProPeat 13-5-8.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Got some free time this afternoon and was able to backlap the mower, grease, and clean it up. I was about to put it back in the garage, but that Mazama was just staring me down. Decided I was going to mow just one strip along the driveway where it's longer than the rest....that turned into "mowing" the whole front yard. The only thing I saw being cut at 7/8" was the weeds I have and an occasional blade of Mazama here and there....pretty disappointing.

Pic of Front Yard

Some of the grass is nice and dark while others are still that lime green...I think it's time to feed it...or there's not enough oxygen by the roots due to all the watering. Rain in the forecast for tonight and on and off all day tomorrow. Planning on "mowing" again Sunday and fertilizing right after. I may drop the height to 3/4" so I'm actually cutting something.


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

You still have some striping going on! Haha. Patience is probably the hardest part of the renovation it seems like.


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

Funny, I was just noticing some spots this morning where the color was somewhat ashen. I figured it might be drowning in the soil to I adjusted my sprinkler patterns a bit. For your first feeding you're planning to apply a mix of fast and slow release N, correct? Also, when are you planning to apply Propicanazole?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Zip-a-Dee-Zee that's correct. Going to throw ProPeat 13-5-8 and then spray ams + prop. Hoping this weekend after the rain or early next week for that.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Patience. It takes time. Go read @Pete1313 Reno thread. He took great pictures of the progress.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

g-man said:


> Patience. It takes time. Go read @Pete1313 Reno thread. He took great pictures of the progress.


 :thumbup: I've read your's and Pete's at least twice if not three times now. If I get the results you two got I'll be a happy camper that's for sure!


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Congrats on the first mow!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Thanks @ksturfguy! Back still hasn't been mowed, maybe Sunday...depends if we get some much needed rain tonight and how much.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

synergy0852 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > Patience. It takes time. Go read @Pete1313 Reno thread. He took great pictures of the progress.
> ...


Yup, patience. My seed down was 8/5. My first mow and feeding was 9/3.

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=20224#p20224


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

synergy0852 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > Patience. It takes time. Go read @Pete1313 Reno thread. He took great pictures of the progress.
> ...


Ditto. I structured my entire schedule based on Pete's renovation lawn journal.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Got an inch of rain yesterday so today I didn't water the back yard with the cool temps and also to firm up the ground for tomorrow's mow. I did have to put some water down on the front as it sits on sand and drains well whereas the back drains quite slowly being lower and I can't hit sand no matter how deep i push my soil probe in.

About an hour before sunset I went out with a bucket and a screwdriver to get after the weeds as it was driving me crazy and they are easy to see now before I mow. I left most of the broadleaf weeds I know I can kill later and went after the grassy weeds I've been unable to identify. I found some POA Annua I believe(ripples in the blades and a different growth pattern than I'm seeing from the Mazama.) I ran out of daylight but I got 90%+ of what I wanted to.

For some reason the tenacity hasn't bleached a single thing after the first week, maybe I've reached the shelf life on it? It worked great earlier this year as a foliar spray. It can't possibly not have gotten watered in with all the irrigation for watering the seeds right? At this point I'm wondering if it's even worth spraying it as a pre-emergent at 30DAG and just go foliar post-emergent? Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated!

Pics of weeds I targeted tonight


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Just went for my nightly flashlight walk and figured I'd take y'all along. Took quite a few short videos trying to show all the angles. The only spots I'm worried about filling in is over by the AC unit. I think I'll let it go and see what happens this year as there are some plants over there it's just not as dense as I'd like to see. If I don't see it filling in next spring I will toss some seed over there.

Snapped a couple pics of one of the lighter green patches that I think got dry and cooked in the heat we weren't supposed to have yesterday and I wasn't paying attention as the forecast was for rain and cooler temps all day.

 Flashlight walk videos/pics


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

The most frustrating part is the pout, once your past that its all golden. But staring at the grass basically not growing for 2 weeks once it sprouts up is super frustrating.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@FuzzeWuzze I always read about it and thought it can't be that bad! I was wrong....

Some of it is growing again, but there's still a good amount that isn't. If things go as planned tomorrow it will get mowed and fed and then some water again.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

From what I've researched, tenacity is more of a post emergent herbicide with pre emergent properties. What I will say though is that think about if you hadn't sprayed it... how many weeds might have come up? How much Poa might have come up? It's most effective against Poa on its first application according to some cooperative research done, so I would focus on that. It did stop stuff, just not all of it. Looking great so far though and you're almost out of the pout stage!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It looks like great coverage. You don't have to, but I would throw some seeds in the backyard border area, the a/c area and a bit in the front lawn north of the sidewalk. Do it before you mow today, so the greens roller will push them to the ground. Going forward I would treat the seeded areas no different than the rest of the lawn (prodiamine still 60 days from your original date).

The pictures of the grass, they look like tenacity bleaching to me. You can see the purple too.

Mow and fert.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

This is funny, Google sent me a "remember this day" picture.










Yours looks better than mine.


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## Pete1313 (May 3, 2017)

synergy0852 said:


> At this point I'm wondering if it's even worth spraying it as a pre-emergent at 30DAG and just go foliar post-emergent? Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated!


Somewhere 10-14 days from now(I believe your seed down was 8/4?), do another round of tenacity at the 4 oz/acre rate. Add a NIS and make it a post-m app. Plenty of the product will make it thru the young canopy and act as a pre-m anyway. This is an important app to keeping the turf clean.

For reference I seeded on 8/5. That second tenacity app was on 9/17.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

g-man said:


> This is funny, Google sent me a "remember this day" picture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How many days past seed down was this and did you throw anymore seed on this?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Thanks @OnTheLawn and @g-man!

I think our timelines are pretty close g-man. I'll throw some seed today. I've been wondering lately if I skipped the area near the AC on accident with the lesco and I know I didn't do it with the Wizz. I'll get an update on here later with some after mow pics.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Solid progress!

+1 on using another round of tenacity with surfactant this time around.

How tall would you say they got before pouting?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

JerseyGreens said:


> Solid progress!
> 
> +1 on using another round of tenacity with surfactant this time around.
> 
> How tall would you say they got before pouting?


.5-1" (some are still there)


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## Mark B (May 30, 2019)

What aspect is the AC unit facing? NSEW? I am having massive difficulty getting seed to germinate well on a north facing area.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

AC is on the east side of the house. No issues with germination on the north near the foundation where it's shaded all day long.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

6pm. Where are the post mow pictures?


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

@g-man he's slacking. You think you know someone! Give the people what they want!!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@g-man @OnTheLawn I just finished up! *If you don't want to read this long post skip to bottom for link to photos*

Spread seed in any spot I felt was a little bare since I already had the seed out to do other spots. I then mowed @.75" based on what I saw the other night. I still didn't see much for clippings coming off the reel, I think the roller pushed them down and they didn't pop back up in time or I'm just blind. I then spread the ProPeat 13-5-8. After that I spread some peat moss on all the newly seeded areas plus the remaining I had left on the spots that dry out the fastest. Once that was done I sprayed .15lb N/M AMS + 1oz/M prop + .75oz/M D10+. I then hurried to clean out the sprayer and turn on the sprinklers.

I can't remember if I wrote in here that I changed my nozzles to LA nozzles earlier this week, but I did. Today they upset me as I wasn't getting the distance I need even with low winds and the water just seems to start pooling up in 2-3 minutes even after letting it dry out quite a bit the last two days. Soooo.....I thought to myself maybe I can nozzle down even further and increase psi which I figured would increase distance a touch. I have had 1.5, 3.0, and 6.0 gpm nozzles since I changed out the installers lazy 2.0gpms all around. I went and got my box of nozzles and dropped to LA 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 gpm nozzles which is as low as I can get with the Toro t5 nozzle tree. I really wish they'd make lower gpm 25° nozzles. Anyways it appears to have worked, I think I have 2 heads that don't quite make it to the next head, but others around do and I can hand water those areas when I see them stressing. I'm already thinking about changing to a different brand of rotors next season or maybe going with mp rotators all around since I love the ones I already have(this will be more work as I think they're 1/2" inlet whereas my rotors are 3/4".)

Anyways, I've made y'all wait long enough..here's a few post mow/everything else pics as I was watering stuff in. Can't believe my dirt patch is striping already. Cooking dinner while I type this so no time to crop photos so you'll have to look hard for the backyard.

Post first full mow pics


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

There we go! Looking awesome sir. Should be exiting the pout stage soon enough and then it'll explode and fill in nicely.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Like a kid in a candy store just thinking about when it takes off @OnTheLawn.


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

@synergy0852 did your front roller keep getting caked with dirt like mine did during the first mow?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Not really @Di3soft. There was a little bit on the left side of the roller where it's smooth, but it was pretty clean all the way across the grooved area. Maybe try letting it dry a little more before your next mow? Mine has caked in the past when I mowed the swamp when I shouldn't have.


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

I let mine dry for 24 hours before mowing @synergy0852. I guess I just don't know how often I should be mowing now I figured every other day with the reel to keep it short. But then what about the watering


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Di3soft I'd say it depends on your soil as mine is most likely different but I didn't water my backyard at all yesterday or today until after I mowed and it was still soft in areas. Front Yard I watered once yesterday afternoon as it was too dry. Try walking it to make sure it's firm before putting the mower on it. If you have to you could cut different areas on different days while you wait for the wetter areas to dry a little more, I've done this many times after rain in the past. My back yard used to take 3-5 days to dry enough to put a mower on it, now it's usually 1 day after using tons of humic and some Air-8. Right now it's a different story with the multiple waterings per day and everyone's property handles water differently.


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

Yea it's a toss up I guess. My soil stay about the same all around. I can let it dry out before mowing. But how frequently should I mow then?cause if I should mow every other day to keep at .8" then I'll have to never water. So I'm confused


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

How many times a day and for how long are you watering?


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

6am,12,6pm for 7 minutes per zone


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

But I just switched to that schedule before it was 6 times per day at 5 min per zone


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Maybe just cut back on that a bit. What I've been doing is running manual cycles when I see it start to dry at the top and once I see it start to not absorb the water(it gets a little shine to it) I stop the run.

When it starts to dry a bit just remember that's the very top of the soil, there will still be moisture below that where the roots are. My goal is to not let it get completely dry around the roots. Forgive me as I'm not up to date on your Reno, but if you're mowing already we're likely in the same place and the roots are probably a couple inches deep at this point. FWIW this week with the change in weather I'm planning on changing up my watering to a deeper soak in the morning and then a little refresher in the afternoon to replenish the very top of the soil as under that will still have moisture for the roots.


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

I'm in northern Illinois so about the same climate. What do you recommend for watering? 10-15 min early morning and a couple minutes in the afternoon?

And guess I should ask how often I should mow since we are keeping it about the same height too


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

For me I'll probably do 10 mins a zone in the am and another 5 mins in the afternoon. You can try to match the daily ETo for your area and knowing how much sprinklers put out in how long. Split that up however you want throughout the day.

As for mowing I just mow when I feel it needs it for now. The more you mow the more it'll fill in I think.


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

That's what I'm as thinking too about the mowing. So in days I plan to mow skip the afternoon water and see if it's dry enough to mow


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Try that out and if it's still too soft just let it go for the night and check again the next day. Right after I mow I plan to water immediately for a little bit until I'm sure the roots are deeper.


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

Thanks man will try


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

I thought this was funny. There is Mazama growing on a welcome mat on the back patio that's been given 0 attention at all.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Hahahaha this is too good. It's incredible how grass will grow literally anywhere as long as there's something to root into at all. Love it.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Little update: Currently getting a nice light rain.

The photo I posted Saturday showing some of the younger seedlings turning red are now turning brown and appear to be dying. It seems to be more widespread now with more turning red so I'm guessing those will soon turn brown as well. The grass I thought was in the clear also seems to be going brown in spots as well. I'll try to get some pics tomorrow.


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

synergy0852 said:


> Little update: Currently getting a nice light rain.
> 
> The photo I posted Saturday showing some of the younger seedlings turning red are now turning brown and appear to be dying. It seems to be more widespread now with more turning red so I'm guessing those will soon turn brown as well. The grass I thought was in the clear also seems to be going brown in spots as well. I'll try to get some pics tomorrow.


Oh man. Sure the nerves are racked, but it's never as bad as we think it might be. Keep us updated for sure.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Night photo of the grass I was talking about earlier:


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## Slingblade_847 (Apr 13, 2020)

@synergy0852 apologies for not looking back in your journal, but you have applied both azoxy and propi right?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Slingblade_847 said:


> @synergy0852 apologies for not looking back in your journal, but you have applied both azoxy and propi right?


Yes.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Can we get a day picture? And a picture of the area?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@g-man here's a larger area pic and a closeup in the daylight(cloudy and overcast, just finished raining.) The whole lawn has these lime green spots and this is where there's some brown blades. I was able to see that the whole plant isn't brown looking closer.



Let me know if there's more pics you'd like to see.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Could be it's staying too wet there?

I know it would suck pulling a soil plug out right now, but maybe pull one from that center lime green/yellow picture and check out the roots. Compare with a plug from an area with vigorous, healthy growth.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

How long ago was azoxy? What rate?

Not all the blades look brown. Is it progressing? Melting out would be the concerning one.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

g-man said:


> How long ago was azoxy? What rate?
> 
> Not all the blades look brown. Is it progressing? Melting out would be the concerning one.


Azoxy was at seed down so today is day 29 and just outside the labelled window. Propiconazole went down this past Sunday. I can't say if it's getting worse or not as those areas have been a lime green since germination and have been slow to establish compared to other darker green areas. I will continue to monitor and see if all the blades on the plants turn brown or if they stay green and grow out of it.

One thought that crossed my mind was maybe the AMS was too hot for these little guys as I'm seeing slight tip burn on the darker areas as well, but the whole blade isn't going brown like the little guys. I did water it in shortly after spraying(in under 30 minutes for sure.)


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

synergy0852 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> > How long ago was azoxy? What rate?
> ...


Could the Propiconazole be causing this?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Lets monitor. Try to take daily pictures from the same angle. It is easier to see difference that way.

If it is getting worst, use azoxy.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Would you say this is happening where there is a larger amount of those mulching pellets?

Maybe something reacting from that - but again everything is going to be a theory at this point.

Following closely.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

Could that be tenacity?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@JerseyGreens & @rob13psu & @shadowlawnjutsu I honestly don't know. This is one of the "dryer" areas(at least surface level) quotations because it's never really dry I keep the water to it when I see it turning light brown.

As far as propiconazole causing it I doubt it as many have used it in the past with no adverse effects and the label states it should help. I only did 1oz/M of prop.

Could be tenacity but it's more brown than white I'd say.

Like g-man said above I'm just going to keep a close eye on it and react as quickly as I can to stop it if it gets worse. Back to work tomorrow....ugh.

On a positive note....the more mature grass has begun to spring to life! Before long I think the stragglers will catch up and begin to take off! Pic update to follow...


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Took a bunch of pics from different angles and different times before sunset to try and give a realistic idea of where the reno is at this point. This is 23 DAG and some more is exiting pout and taking off. Also included is a "timelapse" of the grow in with pics taken every evening.

Pics and "Timelapse"


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## rob13psu (May 20, 2018)

Looking good!


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## davegravy (Jul 25, 2019)

@synergy0852 as you say it looks similar to what I'm beginning to get. I haven't used any fungicides or AMS, so it's possible they are not factors for you either.

Following.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Got in a little lunch time mow on the front yard which is the 3rd mow so far for the front. Waiting for the back to dry out and hand watering the dryer spots back there to give the wetter areas a chance to dry. Hoping to get back there tonight, if not, then tomorrow afternoon.

25 DAG


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

@synergy0852 looking great man, I just did my second mow two days ago, third one will be tomorrow. With your stripes going towards and away from the house, how did you do the turn around with the GM by the mulch beds?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Very carefully. Basically I'd guesstimate a 10 point turn each time ha!


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

haha, well then i may have to try it as well.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

You're striping now @synergy0852!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@shadowlawnjutsu the camera makes it look pretty good from that angle. Long way to go yet to get back to where I was pre-reno, but seeing how hard it stripes already I can't wait for a nice thick lawn!


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## jrubb42 (Jun 20, 2019)

Safe to say the front is gonna be just fine from that photo. Good work... The hard part is almost done (the waiting). You're almost to the fun part! Watching it spread and having the cultivar you've wanted!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Second mow on the back today.





I saw some germination from the seed spread last weekend today, will head out with a flashlight later for a better idea of how much exactly.

I have 2, maybe 3, really high spots in the back yard from the storm that rolled through awhile back that the reel mower hits dirt on. I'm thinking about cutting out those areas and removing some dirt then replacing the cut out on top. Debating with myself whether or not to do it now or wait until next year. I'm already planning on sanding at some point next year to fill in some of my washed out areas, but these spots are too high and my OCD is telling me to do something about it now.

The hose I bought earlier this year burst the other day and flooded part of the front yard before I noticed it, so I decided to bite the bullet and ordered an Underhill UltraMax Blue tonight to replace it.


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

I see green!!! Glad your making good progress.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Insane how you are striping this already. Very impressive.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

How is the trouble area looking? Spreading?


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## Sfurunner13 (Feb 26, 2019)

Just read through your whole journal. Fantastic work and great documenting! I can't wait to see it fill in. I'm planning a mono KBG in the next few years and I can't wait to see how your's looks in a season or two!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Zcape35,@JerseyGreens,@Sfurunner13 thanks for the affirmation.

@g-man I thought about editing the post last night to comment about that, but I got lazy. The troubled spots that had been affected don't appear to be spreading. Some of it is dead and some is pushing through. All of the areas affected seem to be stunted and are just staring back at me taunting me, but they aren't spreading! The weather took a turn for the better which I think helped.

I'm a little surprised with the weather as I thought we were going to have a warmer than usual fall, but the forecast shows low 70s for highs for the most part with some days not even breaking 60 for a high which is below average for this time of year around here. I think there's rain in the forecast for every day this week.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Mowed yesterday front and most of back (some too wet to comfortably mow.)

Woke up this morning to a change in the weather forecast and rushed out to spray before rain(now being pushed back of course.) Sprayed .23lbs N/M urea, .3oz/M azoxy, 4oz/A rate tenacity no NIS, and threw in some bifen as the bugs have been swarming me as I walk around lately.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

No new pics?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

You always beat me to it @g-man! I was planning on getting some up later as it's 35DAG. I will have a question for you with them as well...


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

35 DAG and another mow in.....front and back this time, although about a 1/3 of the back I had to bust out the fiskars and backlap it so I could mow the wet areas near the back of the house. Once we start losing the sun angle that area stays wet until next summer. Truth be told I didn't even run that irrigation zone all year including during the reno.

Enough chit chat, here's some before and after pics of tonight's mow.
35 DAG Pics

@g-man The pics don't really show it but there's a lot of small gaps to fill in and I have no doubt they will....but I'd like to get your opinion on how long you think those areas north of the sidewalk will take to fill in? I did toss more seed but the rain washed most out and down closer to the sidewalk.

I forgot to take pics of the AC side but I have plenty of new germ over there and have been walking lightly but not treating them any different than the grass that's 4 weeks more mature. If that area makes it through winter(I think it will) I should be good to fill that in next spring, who knows maybe it'll surprise me and go nuts this fall yet.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Looking real good @synergy0852 I'm not sure what picture shows what is north of the sidewalk but I think most of your areas will fill in by Fall, some of the larger areas might not until May or so.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think most areas will fill in this year. Super thick? No, but it will fill in. It will all depend on weather.

Fair warning, in spring after the snow melts, it is going to look bad. You will see it look thinner and a lot of brown leaves. It will be all good once temps warm up.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@g-man you can't say the S word yet.... . Thanks for your feedback!

@ksturfguy thanks for your feedback as well! Nice to know from someone who has grown Mazama!


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

g-man said:


> I think most areas will fill in this year. Super thick? No, but it will fill in. It will all depend on weather.
> 
> *Fair warning, in spring after the snow melts, it is going to look bad.* You will see it look thinner and a lot of brown leaves. It will be all good once temps warm up.


Haha this is the truth. Mine looked awful in March and most of April. I thought my reno was a complete failure.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

synergy0852 said:


> Today the Geek Squad visited my neighbors and decided it'd be fun to do some "offroading" right in the same place Amazon did nearly a week ago to the day. Amazon gave me $100 for my troubles, I don't expect the same from Best Buy, ha!


Was reading through the journal and came upon the above posting from last month. Seriously, Amazon gave you $100, presumably as an Amazon credit, due to their driver having driven on your renovation?!? That's pretty good customer service, actually - I would gladly accept $100 for that drive-over any time. Is it even possible to tell where it happened any more?

Your renovation is looking great! This should be a testimonial to getting an earlier seed-down date than people usually consider. Well done.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@ken-n-nancy they gave me a $100 electronic check. I called them to follow up after I never heard from the claim guy they assigned and the lady on the phone laughed when she saw it was "only" $100 and was willing to cut the check right away. I even told her I had a video that I'd provide showing it happen that was too big to upload and again she stated it is only $100, if you're ok with that I'll cut you a check. I don't even have to spend it with Amazon it went right into my checking account! I've never really had any issues with Amazon they always seem to take care of me...I've spent more money with them than I'll ever admit to so they've made that $100 off me and much much more.

I can tell where it happened for sure. Best Buy was actually worse as it rocks the mower when I come off the concrete into the lawn. I have plans to sand next year at some point so I will take care of these and other issues caused by that derecho at that time.

Thank you for the kind words!


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

g-man said:


> I think most areas will fill in this year. Super thick? No, but it will fill in. It will all depend on weather.
> 
> Fair warning, in spring after the snow melts, it is going to look bad. You will see it look thinner and a lot of brown leaves. It will be all good once temps warm up.


Just by reading this it makes me feel nervous. But the good thing is we get these kind of advice so we know what to expect and not panic. Thanks @g-man for all your tips!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

Looks really good man. REALLY good. You've crushed this reno so far and next spring this thing is going to be rocking.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Mowed today again. Going to be a couple cold nights this weekend about a month earlier than normal.

I decided to take advantage of sprinkler warehouse 20% off sitewide and I ordered some Rain Bird 5000+ rotors and some new MP rotators to increase my angles some. Got those yesterday and installed everything this afternoon. I was a little worried about disturbing the new grass but it went smoothly and I had extremely minimal damage. Overall I'm happy I did it now rather than waiting until next year.

Tomorrow I plan to go out and spray some K4L EB, D10+, AMS or Urea, and I'm undecided on if I'll add the last of some SLS I have laying around from awhile ago. This will all get watered in as soon as I'm done spraying.

The grass looks pretty sad right now from the tenacity. It appears the most mature seedlings are unphased while the last to sprout are bleaching pretty severely. I know most will grow through it, but this is the part I hate about using tenacity with the lawn looking like this for like 2 weeks. Pics to follow on Monday g-man, you'll have to wait...


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

Looking forward to pics on Monday and always check out your new posts. Can you explain a bit more what you're spraying? Sorry, I'm a bit of newb and not familiar with all of the acronyms and what they're used for.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Zip-a-Dee-Zee 
The K4L EB is Kelp4Less Extreme Blend. Picked up 10lbs awhile ago for 50% off. It's Humic, Fulvic, Kelp, and Amino Acids.

The D10+ is Subvert Nutritionals Depth10+. It's a 10-0-10 with root promoting peptides I figured I'd give a shot because who doesn't like more roots and root cycling?!

AMS and Urea I'm sure you've seen. 21-0-0 24S Ammonium Sulfate. Urea 46-0-0.

And the SLS, simple lawn solutions "liquid soil loosener" is a wetting agent I picked up a long time ago and just need to use it up. My back yard isn't the best for water penetration. I've thrown the book at it and nothing truly worked although I saw momentary benefits I'm looking for something more permanent and that's why I hit it with the harley rake. I need to touch up some spots next year that settled or washed out.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Call me a gambling man but I may skip the 2nd Tenacity app on my roller coaster Reno.

It only "suppresses" Poa Annua as a pre-em at the end of the day.

I used it as a post emergent app on my old lawn. Mixed with triclopyr and 2-4D and oh baby it knocked out 99% of the weeds in my crappy new construction house lawn...I'm talking clover and some nasty stuff. One app with the mix.

I might pass on it as a Godsend of some sorts that it's known for on renos. We have a late fall Prodiamine app for a reason.

Ok I need to hit the bed.

Can't wait to see pictures on Monday!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Why is it that everyone thinks that waiting until Monday is acceptable? ;-)

I think the 10+ works as a foliar. I'm always worried of trying new things in a reno. Maybe do a section instead of the whole yard only to see what happens. For the back, sand topdressing next year might help.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

g-man said:


> Why is it that everyone thinks that waiting until Monday is acceptable? ;-)
> 
> I think the 10+ works as a foliar. I'm always worried of trying new things in a reno. Maybe do a section instead of the whole yard only to see what happens. For the back, sand topdressing next year might help.


The D10+ label has a foliar app and in furrow app so I assume it can be soil absorbed as well. I know this isn't in furrow but I assumed the same logic would apply. In the past I've always used it as foliar. I'll turn off one/two of these fancy new sprinklers and let it absorb in that area foliarly and do a little test. I'll have to recalibrate that flow zone on the Rachio once I shut them down.

As far as sand topdressing that's my plan for next year both front and back. Front for smoothness and back is a double edged sword. I've drilled out some 16" cores and replaced with sand in the low spots out back already and it definitely drains faster, but it still pools so I need to address that by raising those 2 small areas up.


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

Thanks for the clarification. One of the things I read in the Fall Nitrogen Blitz thread is that adding late season K increases your chances of developing snow mold over the winter. I'm not sure how much you're putting down in terms of pounds of K with the D10+ app but since we're in similar growing zones I thought I'd mention it.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

I really like the SLS soil loosener. Had great results with it. At 1oz/m it does take forever to get through a bottle though! At the suggested rate and two apps per year, one bottle will last me 11 years for my front yard.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Zip-a-Dee-Zee the K in D10+ is basically negligible. My calcs have me just shy of .03 at the rate I usually go with, but I think the max rate they recommend is only 4x that. Last year I made an SOP app around the end of August to end the year. The last time I put down SOP this year was the end of July right before I ran the harley rake. I did put down that ProPeat, which I believe has MOP(.64lbs/M), at the end of August that should hold me over until next spring.

@OnTheLawn I have had decent results with the SLS as well they are just temporary results for me.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Sprayed around .3 lbs N/M via AMS, 20g/M K4L EB, .75oz/M D10+, and the remainder of the SLS (didn't measure as there wasn't much left, definitely not @ recommended rate.)

I watered this all in with .25" of water while performing an irrigation audit due to replacing all of my rotors and some MP rotator nozzles. The numbers came in exactly where the old ones did so that made my life easy.

The uniformity I have is impeccable as I had the exact same amount in every catch cup despite running a lower gpm nozzle than before and I didn't follow the 1x,2x,3x for 90°,180°,360° rotors. I chose 1.5, 2.5 and 4.0 gpm nozzles as I read it's better to nozzle down than adjust radius with the screw in irrigation tutorials. I'm right at .6"/hr on every zone, both rotor and mp rotator zones.

I ended up watering it all in since I went heavy on the AMS unintentionally @g-man so the D10+ experiment will have to wait for the next application.


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## Lust4Lawn (Aug 4, 2020)

What are your thoughts on the extreme blend? I contacted them and asked for dosage rates for new grass and they told me 1/4 of a teaspoon per gallon per thousand square feet. That seems beyond low.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Hard to say definitively, but my soil has gotten darker since I bought the house. Could be a multitude of things like the EB, root cycling, etc. I usually get a nice response from the grass after an app and I split it with a buddy who thinks the world of it after he applies as well. I use 20g/1000 but some of it doesn't dissolve so I may drop to 15g/1000 in the future. Right now I just strain it out and dump it on a flower in the flower beds.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Pics from tonight after work as promised. I don't even want to mow it at this point, the tenacity has really put the brakes on it. I did everything by the book and the tenacity has decimated my reno, or so it appears. I waited 33 DAG to spray the second round of tenacity @ 4oz/A rate. It's smoked every weed I had, but the collateral damage is way worse than I expected. I definitely have some dead grass as it's now turned from white to brown. Most of this is where the tires from the sprayer rolled over, but there's large patches now dying as well and looking back through the pics these were the areas to germinate the slowest. I was pretty confident a few days ago it would metabolize the tenacity and recover as I've always seen it do in the past...now that everyday it's getting worse and worse I'm not so sure anymore.

Anyways here's the photos from this evening, the grass looks greener in the pics than real life


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

One step at a time. Remember the long game at the end of the day. One healthy seedling will spread like crazy next Spring. Let's see some pictures and find out what we can do to help!


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

It will definitely recover. Live and learn I guess.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Not really sure what I did wrong to correct it for the future. I've done tenacity apps many times over the years, I just think the grass wasn't mature enough, but I'm waiting for insight from others as to what not to do next time.


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

I over dosed my reno with tenacity. Applied starter with tenacity at seed down. Then didn't even think about it and did 4oz rate 14 days later. Luckily I didn't kill off anything I think I just stunned it for a while and turned white. Like you said live and learn


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I wish you would seen this earlier. This had ams, K4L, D10+ and tenacity? How many days since tenacity?

I think you can counteract some of the tenacity with some FAS. Go light first.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

synergy0852 said:


> Sprayed .23lbs N/M urea, .3oz/M azoxy, 4oz/A rate tenacity no NIS, and threw in some bifen as the bugs have been swarming me as I walk around lately.


This was 9/12.

This past Saturday I sprayed what you just said @g-man...minus the tenacity, that was the week prior. Usually I don't see bleaching for 7-10 days but this came on quick this time. Bleached within 3 days and more is following suit under the usual timeline I'm used to. I can spray FAS tomorrow if you think it'll help, but the weakest areas are gone for sure. All shriveled and brown at this point. The more mature and stronger plants look normal for what I'm used to, bleached but not shriveled.

I think the weirdest part is the new seed over by the AC on the East side is unaffected!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think go back to basics. Water and nitrogen for now. I would do 1oz FS/ksqft foliar. Why? Here is the hypothesis and I think I found one study around this. Tenacity/pylex screw up the plant ability to make chlorophyll. Chlorophyll is the green part that is used to store energy from the sun. A boost of iron, could then help with bleaching via helping with chlorophyll production. You can also use FEature.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

I've got MainEvent I planned on doing 1oz/M and thought maybe I'll throw in a touch more N maybe 3oz AMS/M this evening with the MainEvent.

Normally I'd pair triclopyr with tenacity to counter the effect(I believe you've stated this before @g-man) but I didn't want to risk it this past time.

App I described for this evening sound alright to you?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Just do the main event without the extra ams. Main events already has urea/ams and I don't want to stress your lawn too much.

Can you do a control spot just to see if this helps?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Yes I can leave out an area. I'll probably just stop short on the east side. I wasn't planning on watering until the usual AM watering, see any problem with that? I'll be spraying after 5 pm so only 2 hours of daylight at that point.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

That's great. Sunshine is not that important. 4hrs of no irrigation/dew is what matters.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Sprayed 1oz./M Main Event. Skipped a small area on the east side of the house and then doubled down on another small area as I had some left since I mixed as I normally would. For science right?!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm still scratching my head around the bleaching. Any chance you used the wrong syringe? The tenacity one has two scales.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@g-man I only have one syringe and it's the one that came with it I always use. Filled it up to the 5 gal mark, I believe that's 2.5tsp or the equivalent to 4oz/A rate.

I have to say the front yard looked better today than yesterday when I was out there spraying, looked a touch greener.

I have a clip from the day I sprayed through today if you'd like to see.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Hopefully it recovers. If you get a chance, call syngenta and see what they have to say. I don't recall anyone having this experience in the past.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

If I recall you added Bifen to the tank mix when doing the Tenacity app right?

Tenacity is usually advised against tank mixing with insecticides (although some have done it on here) - got this from DoMyOwn - looked for university studies real quick and nothing so far.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@JerseyGreens I've done this app in the past many times on the old mix which should in theory be less tolerant as it had prg and ff in it. I'm chalking it up to some of the grass not being mature enough.

I tried to find time to call Syngenta today but got swamped with work and the rest of the week isn't looking any better in that regard.


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## Lust4Lawn (Aug 4, 2020)

JerseyGreens said:



> If I recall you added Bifen to the tank mix when doing the Tenacity app right?
> 
> Tenacity is usually advised against tank mixing with insecticides (although some have done it on here) - got this from DoMyOwn - looked for university studies real quick and nothing so far.


I recall reading this when tempted to do the same thing:
https://www.domyown.com/can-you-mix-insecticide-with-tenacity-qa-46379.html
_
"It is not recommended to mix certain insecticides with Tenacity Herbicide. You should wait to apply organophosphate or carbamate insecticides 7 days after treating with Tenacity Herbicide to avoid potential turf injury. Other active ingredients would be fine to use at the same time."_


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

I thought bifenthrin was in the pyrethrin category of insecticides....but I will remember not to do this again until I call Syngenta and they tell me otherwise. Thank you for pointing that out gentlemen.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Any difference against the control plot?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

No visible difference @g-man but the grass jumped out of the ground overnight. Got a quick mow in on the front at lunch today and I will be heading out to do the back after work. Overall things took a turn for the better on Tuesday it seems as it got greener instead of whiter for the first day since spraying tenacity. Snapped a photo after the mow at lunch. I'm unsure of the issue in the foreground near the driveway, guessing overcrowding as it's been under performing for awhile now.

EDIT: Updated link for pic of backyard after tonight's mow and one of the dahlias I have been waiting all year long to see, the biggest one has yet to bloom but is close.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/i3X4y5hBQ2ktAbbG7


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

That looks better. Keep giving it nitrogen and water. Im going to try to grow one of those dahlias that @wardconnor keeps talking about.


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## FuzzeWuzze (Aug 25, 2017)

Glad to see its bouncing back, it will fill in any damage with time.
The tenacity shots reminded me a lot of what my area looked like back in May when I hit it hard twice with Tenacity.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

It's been more than a week. How are we looking?


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@g-man wet and soggy. Haven't been out there in awhile. Missed a fert app and mow due to rain all week. Been in the 50s for highs and it's not doing much.


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## Vtx531 (Jul 1, 2019)

Re: drainage and soil

I would say my soil is loam-clay mix. Its doesnt drain the greatest but also isn't a neighborhood low spot.

Check out www.floodfactor.com Put in your address and scroll down to the third map on the page. It seems really accurate for what areas will be slow to drain and remain wet the longest for my neighborhood.

Id be interested to know what it shows for you. It looks like your backyard is kind of low in the pics. If so, amending the soil probably won't help much I'm thinking?

Also, you guys just a little bit north of here seem to get a lot more rain


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Thanks for the link @Vtx531, it says my property is 1/10 risk of flooding. I have a pond through the woods that everything drains to so it makes sense. Going back 30 years the water has never broke past the woods when flooding.

Waypoint says my soil is sandy loam, which I believe for the front but not so much the back. The front will eat water and drain off excess quite well. The back can't even handle .1"/hour. We got a bit over 2" of rain up here spread out over the last 4 days or so, how much did you guys see down that way?


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## Vtx531 (Jul 1, 2019)

My neighbor has a weather station that logs everything and is posted online (pretty awesome) so we received 1.46" over the last week (Sep 28-Oct 4). Prior to that we had 15 days in a row with 0.00" rain!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Very nice! I love my weather station. I've had it a little over a year now and it's a game changer when paired with my Rachio irrigation controller! Total was 2.18" for up here. Daily ETo was between .03-.06, I'm looking forward to this week, the forecast looks nice.


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

@synergy0852 which weather station do you have? I have been thinking of investing in one.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Di3soft I have the Ambient Weather WS-2902A, not the best but good enough for me. Absolutely no complaints with it this far. I believe they no longer make the A they've replaced it with the B version. I'm not sure what they changed on it, I couldn't find much online when looking into it.


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

Thanks @synergy0852 price isnt too bad, I dont need anything crazy so something like this may do the trick.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Di3soft I did some more digging and it appears they have the WS-2902C out now. The B added support for additional sensors, but they didn't display on the screen just the app/website. Now with the C they've upgraded the screen but it still doesn't show info from the optional added sensors. Here's a clip I found.


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Can I ask you how you mounted this on your property? Thanks!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@JerseyGreens I used EMT conduit, I believe it was 2", and pounded it into the ground with the help of a friend so I could make sure it stayed level.

Here you can see it in the back corner. Kind of an eye sore, but I'm a nut for data so it outweighs the aesthetics for me!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

All I see is that beautiful lawn coming along!


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

Wow! Already so much darker compared to your neighbors.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

That's a pic from last fall gentlemen. Current pics hopefully today or tomorrow.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think the back lawn will stay wet because it is sitting lower than the road. The water from all road area will need to move down below the level of the backyard for the backyard to drain. Maybe adding sand can help you have a firmer surface, but I dont think it will help with it getting dry.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Thanks @g-man. I plan on aerating and capping with about 5 tons of sand or so next fall if the grass is ready for it at that time. I had temporary success using wetting agents, but I'm over the constant need for them.


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## Di3soft (Jun 13, 2020)

@synergy0852 I too have a few spots that stay wet much longer, going to do the same next fall, aerate and top dress with sand, tired of the constant wet soil, have come moss cause of it.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Time for an update...it's been about 2 weeks due to the weather here in Western MI. Today marks 56 DAG, nearly to the 60 DAG mark for prodiamine. I'm going to put it down regardless of the temperature/time of the year. Last night I shined my flashlight out into the backyard from the deck instead of doing a walk around and with the dew I was able to see all kinds of outlier grass(pretty sure it's POA Annua as I've been finding it all over and not happy about it at all.) I will get a better look tonight up close hopefully.

I mowed the whole yard on 9/27 @ .75" bench hoc. Yesterday, 10/4, I mowed only the front @ .875" as the back is saturated and still is today. I'm bumping up my hoc to close the year hoping more leaf surface will gather more sun. I will tidy it up next year and get it looking the way I like around .625-.7".

Today I sprayed .105lbs N/M of AMS, 1oz/M of Main Event, and .75oz/M of D10+. It's been 2 weeks since it got it's last feeding as I just couldn't get out there with the steady rain we got for nearly a week straight. I plan to spray again later this week with another .105lbs N/M of AMS that's why I went lighter this time.

Here are some pics of the lawn today. I tried to show some of the bare areas as they've come a long way in the past few weeks, but last week's weather kind of put the brakes on everything. I barely got any clippings when mowing at .875" yesterday.

In one of the pics you'll see the damage a skunk did to my neighbors lawn before I noticed it and scared it off. I thought it was interesting how it went right up to my lawn and stopped....my guess is she has grubs, but I have no evidence.


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## Zip-a-Dee-Zee (Apr 9, 2020)

Curious to see what your outlier grass looks like. I noticed some thin-bladed plants that lit up after I applied Tenacity so I thought they were Poa A, but I only found a couple.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

@Zip-a-Dee-Zee confirmed it was poa annua tonight while I was mowing. It's starting to stand out with the Mazama getting darker. This poa annua grows so fast and dwarfs the Mazama it's crazy. On a night with heavy dew grab an LED flashlight and you can easily see things that don't belong. I can see my neighbors bent and poa quite easily as well as mine.

I hand pulled quite a few tonight but there's a bunch left. I also took a drill to the new soft spot I have in the back. It was weird as I drilled it got drier the further I got down. Usually it's saturated from the top all the way down and in some spots it was tonight but others with standing water were dry down deep. The soil must be layered in a way that doesn't allow it to penetrate. I filled the holes with sand and called it good for now and will address it again in the future.


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Tonight I sprayed the same cocktail as Monday, both product and rates. Added prodiamine to the tank at the 4 month rate. The poa annua is really tossing the seed heads now making it easier to distinguish along with the Mazama getting darker.

I got a pretty cool surprise while digging out some poa annua tonight(been digging a little every night.) I found a rhizome from the Mazama and I wasn't expecting that until next year!


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Winterized my sprinklers yesterday as nights have been dipping below freezing lately.

Backlapped the GM1600 and mowed @ 3/4" today. Spread .45lbs/M AMS with rain in the forecast tonight/tomorrow.

Couple pics after today's mow


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## synergy0852 (Jun 30, 2018)

Mowed once a week since last update. Not taking much off anymore but there is some growth still.

Sprayed a cocktail of AMS/Urea/Main Event/K4L EB 10/29. Total N was around .2 lbs N/M, split evenly from AMS and Urea. Went heavier on the Main Event for Halloween @ 1.5oz/M, and a little lighter than normal on K4L EB at 15g/M.

Only mowed the front for Halloween yesterday. We have a week of 60s for highs rolling through so I will likely push one more spray of N for the year and another mow, maybe 2.

Likely the last pics for the 2020 season taken yesterday and a couple this morning as we are getting some white stuff from above. I'm amazed at the color already this year, can't wait to see it in 2-3 years!


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