# Help planning my fall renovation!



## cgeorg07 (Jul 25, 2018)

Hi All - First time homeowner here with aspirations to have a beautiful Tier 2 lawn! I am in northern new jersey, with a 30,000 sq ft lawn in full sun light throughout the day. The builder originally put down some contractor kbg mix last summer and the lawn did not get off to a great start.

I put down some lesco fert w/ pre-emergent in the spring, followed with some milorganite and most recently dynamic duo. Not sure if I was way off base based upon the soil savvy results below, but tried my best with my limited knowledge. I've put in a full irrigation system in preparation for my renovation.



I'd like to embark on a successful renovation this fall overseeding the existing lawn and getting that lush green lawn my 2yo daughter can enjoy!!

As you can see from the photos, the lawn has bare spots, crabgrass, nutsedge and clover throughout. My opinion is the damage is >50%







So....I am looking for some input from the amazing gurus on here on what my next steps should be.

I am for sure an amateur, and below are my best educated assumptions, so be kind 

Kill existing weeds with Roundup or apply Tenacity during seeding? 
Cut Lawn Low 
Rent Aerator - ground is compacted from construction equipment during house build (Billy Goat PL2500)
Apply 10yds of topsoil to fill bumpy and low spots - is it better to do 1/3 sand, soil, compost?
Use lawn roller on yard 
Apply Screamin 8 Starter Fertilizer - any other recommendations? I have SiteOne access
Rent Slit Seeder - Billy Goat OS901SPH 
Apply 75lbs SeedSuperStore SS5000 Sunny Mixture - I think I need more Seed?!
Use lawn roller over new seed
Water and pray to the lawn gods 
Apply Screamin Green Fertilizer or Dynamic Duo 4-3-1 4 weeks after seeding[/list]

thanks again for your help and guidance!!


----------



## OnyxsLawn (Mar 15, 2018)

If you do have KBG from the contractor then you have the option of just pushing it to fill in the gaps rather than do a full reno as a first time homeowner. They are a lot of work and often fail. 
Otherwise your plan looks good. Have you started the kill already? If not and this is the route you want i would get started, especially given the amount of work you want to do to the soil. I would add a drag mat to your list of equipment to help level before rolling. Scott's starter fert has mesotrione in it so thats a favorite around here for keeping weeds down when seeding. Otherwise I would spray tenacity at seed down along with whatever other starter you prefer. KBG seed rate is 2-3 lbs/k so you are in that range with 75lbs
I feel like slit seeding a reno is unnecessary as you will already have the ground fairly broken up. broadcasting the seed and covering with peat moss or cover grow mulch is the alternative.

I'm sure some of the more experienced guys will chime in as well.


----------



## cgeorg07 (Jul 25, 2018)

@OnyxsLawn, thank you for taking the time to provide your feedback.

I haven't started the kill, and I know I am cutting it close if I go after it all with the Weed B Gon... as I think I need a 4 week gap prior to seeding. I like the Scott's/Tenacity route so I can just go all out one weekend and do everything all together. I just don't know if I am too far gone with my weeds and I would be wasting my time/money by just pushing out more seed and not getting enough weeds killed first.

Slit seeder does make me a bit nervous that I will foul it up, so maybe the 2-pass aeration will open it up enough for me, and rent one of those peat moss spreaders to add cover.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I dont normally recommend a reno. You could search most of the post that I encourage folks not to do it. But your lawn looks rough. There are some good sections, but there are a lot of bare areas with a lot a weed.

Regardless of the path you take, I think your biggest problem is irrigation. I read that you had one installed. Now is the time to use it. Make sure you have it dialed in know how to it takes to run it to get 1in over all the zones. Why use it now, you need those weeds growing, so they absorb all the way to the roots whatever you throw at them.

If you are bringing in topsoil, this weekend is the ideal time. Why? to water it like crazy and grow any weeds it could have, so you could kill them.

The sunny mixture from SSS has very good kbg cultivars in it (award, bewitched, midnight kbg, a prg) but it has one that I dont like (chewing fescue). If you plan on buy more seeds ( i think you need to), just get more award kbg to mix it the sunny one you have (and keep it heavy in the kbg) or go with a tall fescue (depends on the lawn type you want).


----------



## cgeorg07 (Jul 25, 2018)

@g-man - Thank you, I truly appreciate you taking the time to reply.

We have been getting crushed with rain, so these weeds are certainly taking off. I will re-verify this weekend with some tuna cans on the duration for 1in from my sprinklers.

I think I will take your advice and get some award kbg -- last thing I want to do is all of this work and be short seed.

What is the best weed killing cocktail I can start now, and still be able to seed in 4 weeks? I have a Site One down the road.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

If you are doing a Reno, then the best option is the standard round up (not the 365 one!). You could use it up to seed down.


----------



## scz71864 (Mar 21, 2018)

I wouldn't fool with trying to fix that. My advise would be to renovate. Go ahead and start killing it now. You'll probably have to treat several times between now and seedin season. Your PH is high so I'd throw out some lime now to jumpstart getting it into the soil. Follow your soil test and apply a complete fert when you seed.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@scz71864 Adding lime to a high pH will push the pH even higher. The only option to lower a pH when there is no lawn is to add elemental sulfur and rototill it, but being so close to seed down, I dont recommend it. I have a high pH soil (8.1) and you could have a good lawn with it (see my images in the  Cool season Lawn pictures


----------



## scz71864 (Mar 21, 2018)

g-man said:


> @scz71864 Adding lime to a high pH will push the pH even higher. The only option to lower a pH when there is no lawn is to add elemental sulfur and rototill it, but being so close to seed down, I dont recommend it. I have a high pH soil (8.1) and you could have a good lawn with it (see my images in the  Cool season Lawn pictures


Right. I had my numbers backwards.


----------



## cgeorg07 (Jul 25, 2018)

Thanks all. I better get a move on' with the Round Up treatments, and keep the lawn watered to hit the weeds a 2nd time if they resurface.

Post Round-Up and close to seeding time, I was planning to cut the lawn low and aerate. Does that still stick with my plan if I am doing the reno as such? Just want to make sure I don't need to do something like remove the dead turf completely. We are expecting a 2nd baby come labor day...so trying to avoid a divorce


----------



## cgeorg07 (Jul 25, 2018)

All - Just wanted to provide an update as a thank you for the guidance and support as I began planning my fall renovation!

I killed as much of the weed infested areas and left whatever grass was in good shape - it was my first go with a backpack sprayer so it was not perfect coverage....plus my wife and I had a baby in between so I ran out of time to go over with a second pass.

My dreams of getting all the topsoil also didn't happen, but the aeration and slit seeder did a good job beating up the soil. I rented the Billy Goat OS901SPH - took me like 5-6 hours to do my 30,000 sq ft yard. I was really impressed with how it worked! Plus, I just didnt have the time, money or energy to lay peat moss everywhere.

I went with the Scotts w/ mesotrione at seed down on 8/25, and I know the granular is Pre-Emergent based, but it flagged the existing weeds white right away and did actually kill a bunch...or maybe I am just delirious.

Overall I have some areas that really shot-up fast and grew quick (shade), and areas that are still catching up which I hope will fill in!

Here are some photos now on Day 20 with 100lbs of the SeedSuperStore SS5000 Sunny Mixture!

I'm not clear on when is the right time to start mowing - the front yard was a true overseed since the existing turf was in good shape, but the backyard was the roundup area. Should I wait until October for first mow and fertilizer? I only have a riding mower, so trying to be smart to not kill these little guys.


----------



## OnyxsLawn (Mar 15, 2018)

Looking good! How tall is the tallest 20%? Most say to wait until it gets to 3" then mow down to 2" and then let it get to its final HOC. How does the soil feel? If the soil is firm and not soggy you should be relatively safe. My sand is pretty easy to push around but i know clay holds things together much better. For sure let it dry out before mowing and limit turning on the seedlings. thats what will tear them out due to their lack of roots. If you can borrow someones push mower for the first cut or at least do your turns in the neighbors yard thats ideal.


----------



## cgeorg07 (Jul 25, 2018)

@OnyxsLawn - Thanks! The small shaded area is 3", but the majority of the lawn is between 1-2".

Soil is definitely too wet right now as we've had a bunch of rain over the last week here in NJ.

Okay, maybe I can rent a push mower and do a first mow next week. I just wasn't sure if the KBG really is holding out for the 30 days to germinate, or if I can do a mow without damaging the turf


----------



## Mwhal2 (Aug 28, 2018)

Looks good, I'm in Somerset County not far from u and boy did we have a good week of rain for new seed. I aerated fertilized and seeded last week and I got an inch of new grass in a few spots today. I would recommend hitting it again with some starter fertilizer and plan an late mid oct hit of nitrogen Milo or synthetic.


----------



## OnyxsLawn (Mar 15, 2018)

Spoon feeding is best for fresh seedlings. Aim for 1/4lb /k N every week if you can and preferably from a fast release source so you can better control it. Heavy apps can stress and possibly burn the new grass. the roots also aren't deep enough to access nutrients as the move deeper into the soil. Light frequent doses are your friend.


----------



## cgeorg07 (Jul 25, 2018)

Would I be able to use the Lesco 18-24-12 I previously purchased from SiteOne this weekend (week 4) at the bag rate?

Or should I see about getting the Urea from SiteOne?


----------



## OnyxsLawn (Mar 15, 2018)

If you've got the starter left over might as well use it up. Don't know about what the bag rate is but 42lbs of that fert over your 30k would give you 1/4 lb N /k. given that your soil test showed need for both P and K you should be fine with another app of starter but I would switch to urea after this to keep from overdosing on P, plus a lot of K can lead to winter diseases.


----------



## cgeorg07 (Jul 25, 2018)

Thank you @OnyxsLawn

Just so I'm not misinterpreting, I would apply the one bag for the entire 30sq ft per week (I have 3 bags left), or use up 2.5 bags one time?


----------



## OnyxsLawn (Mar 15, 2018)

How big are the bags? I would not spread more than 42 lbs over your 30k and make sure it gets watered in plenty to avoid burning.


----------



## cgeorg07 (Jul 25, 2018)

Bags are 50lb each... 4.2lb per 1000 and says it covers 12,000 sq ft


----------



## OnyxsLawn (Mar 15, 2018)

I would not do the bag rate as it will likely burn. One bag over your 30k would give you 0.3 lb N/K. I would do that. use a low rate and multiple passes until its all spread out. Save the other 2 bags for next year after another soil test so you don't overdose on P.


----------



## cgeorg07 (Jul 25, 2018)

Thank you again @OnyxsLawn


----------



## cgeorg07 (Jul 25, 2018)

Am I the only person who can't find Urea or Ammonium Sulfate? I am in Northern New Jersey and No SiteOne's or any of the local nurseries have either.


----------



## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

If you can't find any cheap, bulk, urea. You can always go to Walmart.

The $13 bag has about 12 lbs N, so just over $1 per pound. Not as cheap as buying 46-0-0, but hey, you can get a pint of Ben & Jerry's in the same trip to ease the pain.


----------



## cgeorg07 (Jul 25, 2018)

Very good point @samjonester . Why shouldn't I get some ice cream for all my hard work 

Of course they are out of stock, but I guess the point being I can try to find some other high N fertilizers with 0 to low P, K?


----------



## OnyxsLawn (Mar 15, 2018)

Did you spread the lesco fertilizer? Based on your soil test you could use some P and K anyways.


----------



## samjonester (May 13, 2018)

@cgeorg07 exactly! The key for you would be getting something with a low percentage of polymer coated granules. That's what makes synthetic fertilizers slow release.


----------



## cgeorg07 (Jul 25, 2018)

@OnyxsLawn - I did spread the One bag of starter, and the lawn is looking great! I want to keep the momentum going and continue to feed the beast.

I was just nervous about spreading another bag of the Lesco 18-24-12 and burning the lawn, after all this hard work.


----------



## OnyxsLawn (Mar 15, 2018)

I wouldn't spread another bag of starter without a soil test to see where your P is. P runoff is a big environmental problem. Pick up whatever you can to get some more N down and feed the lawn. an 18-3-6 29-0-5 or something similar would work fine. Straight Urea is nice because It allows your to precisely control all of your nutrients and its cheap. If you stay below 0.5 lb N/k you are very unlikely to burn.


----------



## cgeorg07 (Jul 25, 2018)

Gotcha @OnyxsLawn . SiteOne by me has some options...
- LESCO 34-0-0 100% Polyplus 5Fe
- LESCO 30-0-5 25% PolyPlus MOP
- LESCO 25-0-6 50% Polyplus MOP 5Fe
- LESCO 18-0-3 40% Polyplus 2Fe
- Nutrients Plus 16-2-3 45% CRN BIO AS SOP 1Fe Screamin Green


----------



## OnyxsLawn (Mar 15, 2018)

Of those I'd do the 30-0-5 because it has the lowest amount of coated Urea. 25 lbs of that over your 30k sqft will give you 0.25 lb N/k. If you want a bit of iron to green things up you could do the 18-0-3. Will the site one not order you some Urea?


----------



## cgeorg07 (Jul 25, 2018)

Thanks @OnyxsLawn Picked up both the 30-0-5 and the 18-0-3 - I'll do the 25lbs of the 30-0-5 this week and next week, and then use the 50lbs of 18-0-3 after that.

I pleaded with SiteOne to order me some Urea, but they said they would only order pallets!. Next year I will jump on it earlier.

I am seeing quite a bit of clover coming up - since I am now 43 days post seed down, should I hit it with the Ortho or too soon?


----------



## OnyxsLawn (Mar 15, 2018)

Good work! odd site one would order a couple more bags for you. seems like a bad time to be out. The other fert will be fine though.

Clover can actually help feed your lawn if you can stand to look at it. Tenacity will do a number on it this year if you are 30 days post germination. Otherwise it will be pretty easy to take out in the spring once the new grass is more established. Any herbicide may stunt the new grass from thoroughly establishing before winter.


----------



## Stuofsci02 (Sep 9, 2018)

Put it down at 1.4 lbs per thousand to get about .25 lb N per thousand. So about 42ish lbs ought to do it. If you put down a whole 50 lb bag you will get about .3 lbs of N per thousand. Not a big deal imo if you want to keep it simple.


----------

