# Patience or more seed?



## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

Looking for the forums thoughts on whether I should be more patient or put down more kbg seed? I'm currently at 18 days after seed down and 11 days after germination. I have some weed pressure so I'm skeptical of putting more seed down so I can get my 1st tenacity app after germination. I've spent some time pulling weeds by hand but won't be able to keep that up. It did rain fairly hard after seeding which I did use a roller to push down on August 14th. I also put down an app of starter fert on the 20th of August. I seeded with award and Everest KBG. The small test pots I have going we're both seeded on the 14th and the Everest has very little germination in the pot where the award is fairly thick.

All that being said and the attached pics, more seed or more patience?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

There are areas there that look too thin after 18days. I would drop seeds.


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## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

Posts like this re-iterate to me that I don't have the "hootspa" for KBG. PRG had me at hello with its 5 day germination and full establishment by the time KBG start's "pouting".

Are you getting good enough coverage with those sprinklers?


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## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

@g-man @halby

I wasn't a big fan of the rye grass I put down last year. It did come up quick but didn't really handle the heat well. I have another roughly 10 lbs of KBG to put down in these bare spots. That'll bring the total up to 50 lbs for about 17k sq ft. I thought I read somewhere that Everest could take up to 28 days to germinate, is that still true? Should I get even more seed or at this point would more seed need to go down in the spring?

Do I have to keep hand picking or when can I use tenacity again? I was planning for some washout but not this much. Thanks again for all your help.


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

Check it at night with a flashlight. It's too hard to notice in the daylight


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## KoopHawk (May 28, 2019)

Your test pots are interesting. The Everest must be very slow to germinate even in ideal conditions. I am usually a wait and let it fill in guy or I would wait and see what needs to be reseeded in the spring. I also tend to go with whatever gman says so I am conflicted...


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

You dropped 50lb, but are you keeping the area moist? I see one sprinkler for a very large area. We had a few very dry days and a single sprinkler will not keep up. The areas do look dry in those images.

There is a line of storms headed our way. If there is no germination in those thin areas by this weekend, you will need to drop seeds and keep the area moist.


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## gregfromohio (Aug 14, 2019)

Drop the seed. Do it today if you can. Maybe save 2 or 3 lbs for the spring to reseed really thin spots. I have to concur with the others, if that is your only sprinkler it will need to run constantly all day and someone will have to move it around every 10 or 15 minutes


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## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

@Coleman2084

Please describe your irrigation setup and frequency


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## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

I currently have a 14 zone in ground irrigation system that has run three times a day for 10 minutes in each zone since seed down day. The sprinkler in the picture was placed there because of the lack of germination in that area. I was worried that the sprinkler that is right in the middle of that dry spot was throwing the water too far and I placed the sprinkler there to see if I could spawn some germination. The dry spot closest to the house I'm not concerned about as that is going to be turned into a flower bed with stone at some point. The long dry story furthest away from the house is not water and is not technically my property so I'm okay with that filling in on its own in the future. I'm actually concerned with over watering as I have had some standing water in the swail between the houses. This area is pretty much mud at this point. I've dialed back the watering to twice a day as I've either seen spiderwebs or mycelium in the yard in the morning when there is dew on the ground. I will drop some more seed today in the thin areas and keep watering.

I wanted to make sure that I'm not just being impatient from watching it everyday and the fact the Everest tester hasn't done much. I think I also ready Everest could take up to 28 days to germinate so again wanted to make sure I wasn't impatient.

I do have just under 10lbs of seed left and also have some midnight I could use if needed.

I am also getting a little concerned with the weeds from the topsoil I used in some areas. I know I need to get another app of tenacity down but obviously need more germination first.

Thanks again for the quick replies and the guidance.

@g-man @halby 
@gregfromohio


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

^^ Spider Webs. Not mycelium.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

Don't worry about those webs.

Just drop a little seed in thin spots and move forward. It's looking solid for 18 days. See others' renovation pictures at comparable stages for reassurance.


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## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

I just put down 8 lbs of seed in the thin areas. I will keep up on the watering and see what happens. I did rake a little in the thin spots and the soil is most. I can only guess that those areas were washed out the second day after seeding since we had heavy rains. Thanks again everyone.

@g-man @halby


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## Matthew_73 (Jul 9, 2019)

I am in the same spot. But the last few days I have seen some growth. It a lot of tillers. I will be at 21 DAG on Sunday. I will do a light reel mow at 2.5 and then run the weasel over some areas of no grass. I too am getting weed pressure. CGI cool blue.


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## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

Matthew_73 said:


> I am in the same spot. But the last few days I have seen some growth. It a lot of tillers. I will be at 21 DAG on Sunday. I will do a light reel mow at 2.5 and then run the weasel over some areas of no grass. I too am getting weed pressure. CGI cool blue.


How do you like the cool blue so far? I know it's early but what are your impressions. I did not have much luck with cool blue personally.


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## Matthew_73 (Jul 9, 2019)

halby said:


> Matthew_73 said:
> 
> 
> > I am in the same spot. But the last few days I have seen some growth. It a lot of tillers. I will be at 21 DAG on Sunday. I will do a light reel mow at 2.5 and then run the weasel over some areas of no grass. I too am getting weed pressure. CGI cool blue.
> ...


So far I like it. I can't tell between the *** and tttf. But it's still new. It has filled nicely. A few bare spots. I drop spread and can see rows of grass like it was slit seeded. 3/4 of it is 1.75 " and the others are 1" and up. I do see some new seedlings. I'm liking it so far.


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## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

Picture of my test pots. This was part of the confusion not much Everest but plenty of award that was planted on the same day.


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## JSS (Jul 15, 2020)

Definitely more seed. I'm at 2.5 well almost 3 weeks since seed down and have great coverage. I went 4lbs/M. Bluebank, Bewitched, and Mazama


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## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

That looks pretty damn good. I put more seed down this morning and still have a little left over for the spring. I was at roughly 2.5-3 lbs/k. Thanks for the picture and reply.


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## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

I added more seed a week ago tomorrow. Hopefully we will see a good amount fill in shortly as I had original germination on day 7. Weather is much cooler and had a little rain. Planning on spoon feeding some nitrogen by the end of the week.
@g-man @halby


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The front looks good. The first image looks like it has some green to it. Cooler weather should help.


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## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

Things look good! I think you will be just fine.


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## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

@halby @g-man

I do have some significant weed pressure in some areas and I know the rule of them is at least two mows. While I have some areas that need mowed not all do. I want to mow but I also want to leave some of the weed leaves for when I spray. Should I just go ahead and mow will the weed leaves recover so that I can then spray after my second mow?

I believe I have some foxtail that is nearly 8-10 inches tall. I've been hand pulling the best I can but it's not feasible to get them all. I do have some other shorter weeds showing up as well. If I spray before I mow and I for sure doomed? Thoughts?


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## pinocchio (Jul 29, 2020)

@Coleman2084 I'm in a similar spot, when you say you put down more seed how did you specifically do that? Just toss it down, or rake it in? How did you do it without damaging the new grass around it?

Thanks!


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## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

@pinocchio

I raked to break up some of the soil and dead grass left behind which did damage a little bit of the current grass. Then I used a small hand spreader to spread the seed. Once it was down I ran a cycle of irrigation. I should be seeing some germination today of that second round of seed. I tried my best to leave as much of the current seedlings in place but there were a few that were torn up.


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## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

Coleman2084 said:


> @halby @g-man
> 
> I do have some significant weed pressure in some areas and I know the rule of them is at least two mows. While I have some areas that need mowed not all do. I want to mow but I also want to leave some of the weed leaves for when I spray. Should I just go ahead and mow will the weed leaves recover so that I can then spray after my second mow?
> 
> I believe I have some foxtail that is nearly 8-10 inches tall. I've been hand pulling the best I can but it's not feasible to get them all. I do have some other shorter weeds showing up as well. If I spray before I mow and I for sure doomed? Thoughts?


I would not risk spraying anything that will hurt your little baby grass.  How many days after germination are you? Perhaps another app of tenacity?


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## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

Currently 20 DAG....I didn't put down enough tenacity the first go around. The topsoil I brought in is killing me with how big some of these weeds are. Should I just chop them down with the weed eater and hope they recover by the time I can spray? I fully anticipated weeds, but the tenacity mistake and the current amount of weeds are worrying me.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Hand pull or just mow. Wait for the right time to do a herbicide.


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## gregfromohio (Aug 14, 2019)

JSS said:


> Definitely more seed. I'm at 2.5 well almost 3 weeks since seed down and have great coverage. I went 4lbs/M. Bluebank, Bewitched, and Mazama


IF I ever do another reno I'm definitely going to throw down 4lbs per K. The 3 lbs per K isnt enough I think.


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## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

Thank agin for help.
@halby @g-man 
I did want to run these spots passed you. I did have quite a spider webs in the yard that I think you can see from previous posts, but I had these yellow spots show in a couple spots. Insects or fungus? Thoughts to remediate before it get to out of control? I've done two one week feeding of urea at a 1/4 lb N per k. I do believe I have some liquid propi if it is a fungus. Thoughts?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I can't tell from the image.


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## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

Closer view of that same spot. 
@g-man


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## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

Coleman2084 said:


> Closer view of that same spot.
> @g-man


In the morning have you noticed cobweb looking things on the grass? What have your daytime and nighttime temps been as well as humidity?


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## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

Temps have cooled off, but July and August were hot. Seed went down on August 14 and I watered like all hell during the first month. In one of the pictures you can see "spider webs" in the yard but was told they were just that. However these yellow spots seem to be about the same size. Also, in another pic you'll see what I believe to be fungus but this was present before I started the Reno.
@halby @g-man

Spiderwebs after Reno started.





What I believe to be fungus before glysophate/Reno.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

These last images are a fungus. The strong shadows is making it very difficult to see the detail. It could be PB or DS or even BP. I just cant tell.


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## damanpal (Jul 22, 2020)

I am in the middle of a reno as well with only Award KBG. Not saying that putting more seed down was not needed but I saw new seedlings popping up in some areas even 30 days after I seeded. I seeded on August 9th and I did mow some areas this past weekend where grass had crossed 2 inches and there were patches which felt like just germinated. I read all about how hard it can be mentally to grow KBG from seed but you don't really know untill you do it. Cheers!!


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## halby (Jun 8, 2020)

g-man said:


> These last images are a fungus. The strong shadows is making it very difficult to see the detail. It could be PB or DS or even BP. I just cant tell.


G-man, I think he's got PB. I know those signs all to well.


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## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

@damanpal

I hear ya... fun and stressful both. I think my biggest rush is that I have some serious weed pressure in my mind. Some are fairly large and I want to do a blanket spray but that day keeps getting pushed back with more germination days. My Everest in my test pot really took close tom30 days to germinate so my yard should keep filling in. I'm going to mow over the weeds for a week or two yet then maybe spray. Looking forward to this time next year!


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## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

@halby

I think this might be spreading a little bit. What's the recommended fix for PB?


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## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

@g-man @halby Any suggestions on how to contain? I'm planning on spoon feeding urea again next week at .25lbs of N. Will most likely spread quinclorac for weeds and crabgrass next week. In addition, looking to spray rgs, Humic 12, and iron next week. I can add in some fungicide if needed. I've also pulled back watering significantly and water every third day if we don't get any rain.


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## Ngilbe36 (Jul 23, 2020)

Coleman2084 said:


> @g-man @halby Any suggestions on how to contain? I'm planning on spoon feeding urea again next week at .25lbs of N. Will most likely spread quinclorac for weeds and crabgrass next week. In addition, looking to spray rgs, Humic 12, and iron next week. I can add in some fungicide if needed. I've also pulled back watering significantly and water every third day if we don't get any rain.


I shared in Halby's pain this year and had the same issue. Here is what I did. It stopped spreading then went away. All effected areas did die though.
Stop watering
Apply diseaseX when dew is on blades
Spray prop 14.3

Again. Not sure what if any of these things contributed to the reduction.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Is it getting worst? I would not do all the stuff you listed. If it is getting worst, I would only do a fungicide effective against that fungus.

Crabgrass? We are supposed to get a frost this weekend in Indy. I would suspect also in NW Ohio. That should kill some of the crabgrass.


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## Coleman2084 (Aug 7, 2019)

I will apply some propi to the infected areas yet this week. I can't tell if it's getting worse or the grass is getting better around it. The other areas seem to be darkening up. I did watch the video linked below which makes me think it is dollar spot since I had the spiderweb looking areas and KBG. I did put down sown disease x in the areas but no propi. The video states that you don't see as much pb which I'm thinking you mean pythium blight in ***. Overall the yard is still thickening up nicely in most areas but I have these spots in some areas. I also think they are near the sprinkler heads which may have left the areas more damp during all the watering I did for my seeding.

@g-man @halby @Ngilbe36


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