# Am I the only one tired of hearing about Tenacity?



## thecutter64 (Oct 5, 2021)

It seems as though everyone thinks Tenacity is the be alll and end all weed killer, PreEM out there. People talk about it in every post !

It works when used correctly but there are waaaay better products for weed killing and certainly for PreEM use. 

Has anyone ever read about the use and indications for Tenacity? Or does everyone just watch videos on BoobTube? 


Rant off


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## macattack (Nov 2, 2020)

Tired of hearing about it yes. Wishing i had sprayed my reno area as having weeds pop, maybe. Though the weeds are small and the reno area is only 400 sq ft of hellstrip. So, i am managing weeds by hand pulling. Massive rain the day before and morning of seeding so i didn't spray and skipped at 30 DAG. Probably could just hit it with Ortho 3-way now, but hoping the hard freeze takes most of them out. Weeds are having a hard time against the super thick grass. I should let it grow a little taller to really crowd them out, at 2.5" HOC now. Maybe next year when i do a bigger area i will use the tenacity. I think this is its main use, for seeding.


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## Toddskill (5 mo ago)

I agree, it has its place, but for whatever reason people seem to think it's the be all end all anymore.


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## Tungsten (6 mo ago)

YouTube influencers make it sound like if your yard is filled with weeds, then spray tenacity and all your problems will be solved. Tenacity has its uses, but YouTube makes it seem much better than it really is.


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## FailedLawn (5 mo ago)

thecutter64 said:


> It seems as though everyone thinks Tenacity is the be alll and end all weed killer, PreEM out there. People talk about it in every post !
> 
> It works when used correctly but there are waaaay better products for weed killing and certainly for PreEM use.
> 
> ...


Can you share some alternatives?

What pre-m would you suggest during seeding?

What post emergent do you recommend for Poa and bentgrass? Especially on newly seeded lawns?


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## Toddskill (5 mo ago)

FailedLawn said:


> Can you share some alternatives?
> 
> What pre-m would you suggest during seeding?
> 
> What post emergent do you recommend for Poa and bentgrass? Especially on newly seeded lawns?


I don't think anyone would recommend alternatives in the scenarios you mentioned, those are the areas it does well. I think we are all referring to the people that act like it's the one and only lawn chemical they need for every weed problem. I've seen several posts on here that go "I've sprayed xxx weed with tenacity but it's still alive, what should I do?"


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## FailedLawn (5 mo ago)

@Toddskill oh gotcha. The only other prem for seeding I can think of is tupersan. Not sure if it’s even around anymore.
I certainly wouldn’t suggest using it for general weed populations, but it’s on of the few that’s labeled for some hard to control stuff. Spraying clover or dandelions with it would seem like a waste.

I haven’t seen any of the YouTube nonsense. They probably make videos about it due to high keyword search volume and get lots of clicks. So much of the web blogs and YouTube stuff is monetized so you have to take it all with a grain of salt…and disregard much of it. I try to stick with university studies & research papers as much as I can.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Good for anything? No.

Game changer when it came out over 10 years ago and very useful (and cost effective)? Yes.

Do I like that it's reduced risk and lower toxicity? You bet!

Do I wish it didn't exist? No way.

Have I used a lot of it (maybe too much) over the years? Yeah.

Did I watch lawncare videos on YouTube when I began using it? No. The community didn't exist back then.

Accidently nuked good grass with it at some point? Yes. Almost a rite of passage!

Am I trying to use less of it lately to manage resistance? Yes!!

Told at least one other person about it and now they're fans of it? Yeah.

The above sum up my concise thoughts on Tenacity. That, and it can become an addiction if people aren't careful.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

FailedLawn said:


> The only other prem for seeding I can think of is tupersan. Not sure if it’s even around anymore.


Went off the market last year. You'd be hard pressed to find anymore remaining stock for sale today.


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## Aceman (Nov 15, 2020)

Toddskill said:


> I agree, it has its place, but for whatever reason people seem to think it's the be all end all anymore.


Wanna know the reason everyone uses Tenacity?

IT'S EASY TO PRONOUNCE AND REMEMBER

Did you ever use omeprazole? It's more commonly known as Prilosec.

2) When I started looking into lawn care products it was very frustrating trying to figure out what kills crabgrass, wild violet, Dandelions and clover. Tenacity seems to take care of most, if not all of them. That made the decision easy.

3) You could choose "Tenacity" or you can choose "Triclopyr Esther". I apparently used this and still can't pronounce it. I found a bottle of it in my garage, but I don't remember what I used it for.

4) Something else I use is Prodiamine. That's an easy one to remember too because it's pronouncable.

5) This year while buying more Tenacity, I decided to buy the generic version. I don't remember what it's called, but it has the same active ingredient.

=Better marketing.


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## wiread (Aug 27, 2019)

I don't watch lawn videos and I swear the only time I see Tenacity being talked about, is usually poorly and on here LOL


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

We need another breakthrough herbicide to be tired about. Bring in POACURE!


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## Grover (9 mo ago)

I thought the main thing about tenacity is that it’s the only, correct me if I’m wrong, pre-m you can use during seeding.

Other than that a bottle of sprectracide seems to take care of probably 80% of the weed issues I have.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Aceman said:


> Wanna know the reason everyone uses Tenacity?
> 
> IT'S EASY TO PRONOUNCE AND REMEMBER
> 
> ...


Tenacity is completely different from Triclopyr Ester. They are not interchangeable. I have both and use them. Triclopyr Ester is labeled for broadleaf weeds only. It is not labeled to control or suppress grassy weeds (i.e. bentgrass, poa annua, etc.). It will not act as an indicator to highlight poa trivialis, so it can be treated with a non-selective herbicide. It is only labeled as a foliar application and not also labeled for a soil application as a PreM (for new seeding). Tenacity is labeled for all of these uses. It is derived from the Bottle Brush plant and has a lower EIQ (Environmental Impact Quotient), so it is more friendly towards the environment. The patent only expired in the last couple of years, so most folks still refer to it by name, and many YT videos were produced while it was still patented, thus the generic names are much less prevalent. Most folks use the term, Q-Tip, and not cotton swab. FYI-The A.I. of Tenacity is mesotrione. Triclopyr is very effective at control or suppression of hard to control broadleaf weeds, such as: Clover, Chickweed, Oxalis, Wild Violet, etc. Each one of these herbicides are one of many tools in a toolbox. However, Tenacity/mesotrione generics have specialized uses as both a PreM and PostM, grassy weeds and new seedlings 30 DAG. Triclopyr Ester and many/most other herbicides cannot be used this way.


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## SpiveyJr (Jun 7, 2018)

The other appeal of Tenacity is it’s relatively low cost and how a little of it goes such a long ways.

No doubt dat der’ social media is corrupting the youth.


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## pgm (10 mo ago)

Honestly, when I first saw my yard in spring of '21 for the hot mess it really was, one of the the first things I came across on youtube to fix it was Tenacity. I actually thought if I sprayed this miracle in the bottle my lawn would look like the lawn on magazine covers. Well, that didn't happen of course.  But it did get me to buy my first sprayer and get on the path of learning about what actually works and how to make the lawn better, so it wasn't a waste to have in the arsenal. I wouldn't say I'm sick of hearing about it but it certainly was far from the cure-all I thought it was and this year it only was used for seeding projects and for starting by battles against CBG and for locating poa.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

FailedLawn said:


> Can you share some alternatives?
> 
> What pre-m would you suggest during seeding?
> 
> What post emergent do you recommend for Poa and bentgrass? Especially on newly seeded lawns?


This. Tenacity has several use cases where other options don't come close. 

I would not do a renovation without it. It is your best option for selective removal of Poa Annua from cool season turf. 

Outside of those scenarios there are often better alternatives.


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## Factor (Oct 10, 2019)

thecutter64 said:


> Or does everyone just watch videos on BoobTube?


One thing you have to remember is the use of a forum is old school. Most think Facebook and Youtube are the forums of today. Only people who either know forums are the place to go or at there wits end come here once youtube failed them.


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## pennstater2005 (Jul 17, 2017)

I don’t watch lawn YouTube videos some I’m out of the loop on that but I mostly see it discussed here for seed down use.


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## FailedLawn (5 mo ago)

Factor said:


> One thing you have to remember is the use of a forum is old school. Most think Facebook and Youtube are the forums of today. Only people who either know forums are the place to go or at there wits end come here once youtube failed them.


exactly. I prefer forums over the fb groups. Most of the forums that I used (gardenweb ATY) are basically dead now. That goes with forums of other interest of mine. Virtually no traffic. This site is actually active and relevant.

also, my bottle of tenacity expired in 2014 and still works.


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## BlueGrass (4 mo ago)

I only use tenacity for nimblewill and bentgrass intrusions.


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## redcoatd (5 mo ago)

Has anyone created a granular form of tenacity for those of us that have too large an area to spray easily?


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## LIgrass (May 26, 2017)

Tenacity's popular because of the wide range of weeds it works on. You won't find anything else that can work on the toughest grassy weeds (not 100% but good) all the way down to dandelions. It also covers the middle range spreading weeds like clover, chickweed, etc. and has equally effective pre-em effects. Nothing like it on the market for cool season lawns.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

redcoatd said:


> Has anyone created a granular form of tenacity for those of us that have too large an area to spray easily?


Yes. Scotts and Lebanon have it available in a starter fertilizer. Same exact granular product. There is only one. Different size bag depending on which brand.


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## Vman12 (4 mo ago)

LIgrass said:


> Tenacity's popular because of the wide range of weeds it works on. You won't find anything else that can work on the toughest grassy weeds (not 100% but good) all the way down to dandelions. It also covers the middle range spreading weeds like clover, chickweed, etc. and has equally effective pre-em effects. Nothing like it on the market for cool season lawns.


Not to mention one of the things I like about it is that a blanket spray on the lawn will help you discover weeds you might be missing otherwise when they start turning white.


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## thecutter64 (Oct 5, 2021)

Vman12 said:


> Not to mention one of the things I like about it is that a blanket spray on the lawn will help you discover weeds you might be missing otherwise when they start turning white.


All grasses turn white including kbg and tttf if sprayed .


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## Vman12 (4 mo ago)

thecutter64 said:


> All grasses turn white including kbg and tttf if sprayed .


Maybe if you put down too much. My rtf/tttf doesn't turn white when I spray. That would kill it by preventing photosynthesis. Heavy handed it can get a little discolored at the tips, but there is a clear difference between what it does to the grass and to the list of controlled plants.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Tenacity can/will result in noticable bleaching of tolerant grasses at the higher acceptable rates. In my experience it can be more than just a bit a the tips.

When using it to highlight weed species, you would use at lower rates so that it does not bleach desirable grasses.


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## Vman12 (4 mo ago)

bernstem said:


> Tenacity can/will result in noticable bleaching of tolerant grasses at the higher acceptable rates. In my experience it can be more than just a bit a the tips.
> 
> When using it to highlight weed species, you would use at lower rates so that it does not bleach desirable grasses.


Yeah you'd need to use it at the correct rate for the desired application. TBH most of the problems I see with applying Tenacity/Mesotrione in blanket applications are when people don't spend the time to correctly calibrate their equipment or use too much for the desired effect/sq footage.

My original point was simply that this is one of the features of Tenacity that I like, in addition to the benefits of it's pre-emergent qualities, etc.

Precision when using it is a necessity, whatever the desired result.


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## mxtd30 (4 mo ago)

I’ve had good results with it. Used it when I started Reno last year when maybe half the front lawn was crab grass. killed it and not my grass. I didn’t do a good pre em in the spring and a bunch came back front and back. Used it again and killed a good portion of my lawn in the front without watering when it was too hot… stupid. Next spring I plan to use prodiamine and mesotrione in combo because I’m so sick of crabgrass…. Yes I learned about it through you tubers but at least it works for me.


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## Vman12 (4 mo ago)

mxtd30 said:


> I’ve had good results with it. Used it when I started Reno last year when maybe half the front lawn was crab grass. killed it and not my grass. I didn’t do a good pre em in the spring and a bunch came back front and back. Used it again and killed a good portion of my lawn in the front without watering when it was too hot… stupid. Next spring I plan to use prodiamine and mesotrione in combo because I’m so sick of crabgrass…. Yes I learned about it through you tubers but at least it works for me.


Yeah we've all messed up, don't beat yourself up about it. I mean when you're talking about Tenacity, you're measuring this stuff in tsp to begin with so it's got a learning curve for sure.

What you want for post emergent crabgrass is quinclorac. That'll smoke it good.


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## mxtd30 (4 mo ago)

Vman12 said:


> Yeah we've all messed up, don't beat yourself up about it. I mean when you're talking about Tenacity, you're measuring this stuff in tsp to begin with so it's got a learning curve for sure.
> 
> What you want for post emergent crabgrass is quinclorac. That'll smoke it good.


What ever gets through next year I’m going to try to hand pull as early and as much as possible too.


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## Vman12 (4 mo ago)

mxtd30 said:


> What ever gets through next year I’m going to try to hand pull as early and as much as possible too.


Getting to those suckers before they seed and pulling them is a great part of the process too. That's part of why I enjoy lawns so much: they'll teach you a lot of patience.


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## consolidatedwm (4 mo ago)

What about using quinclorac vs tenacity, as a cost effective post emergent?


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## Vman12 (4 mo ago)

consolidatedwm said:


> What about using quinclorac vs tenacity, as a cost effective post emergent?


For actual crabgrass control post emergent? Tenacity is good for young crabgrass but quinclorac is better once it starts hulking out.

If you've got mature crabgrass the quinclorac is the way to go BUT as a combo with tenacity as a pre-emergent.

Once you've got established crabgrass it's a war on the ridiculous amounts of seed just waiting for you to slip up. Scotts makes a granular mesotrione you can put down over the area to win that battle if you're not comfortable with spraying.


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## bill101 (Apr 13, 2021)

Aceman said:


> Wanna know the reason everyone uses Tenacity?
> 
> IT'S EASY TO PRONOUNCE AND REMEMBER
> 
> ...


Mesotrione -  Also great for killing nutgrass, and helping control bermudagrass in a bluegrass lawn. But I prefer prodiamine for pre-emergent use in a mature lawn. (aka Barricade)


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Vman12 said:


> For actual crabgrass control post emergent? Tenacity is good for young crabgrass but quinclorac is better once it starts hulking out.
> 
> If you've got mature crabgrass the quinclorac is the way to go BUT as a combo with tenacity as a pre-emergent.
> 
> Once you've got established crabgrass it's a war on the ridiculous amounts of seed just waiting for you to slip up. Scotts makes a granular mesotrione you can put down over the area to win that battle if you're not comfortable with spraying.


I had my neighbor (the person I told about Tenacity a few years ago) tank mix Quinclorac and Tenacity this Summer for mature crabgrass, because I was concerned about Tenacity alone not working, or resistance. It worked great that way. I think he also did a followup app of one or the other, too. I had him back down the Tenacity rate to 2oz per acre, and the Quinclorac was almost full rate. For whatever reason, he still had crabgrass despite using 2 split apps of pre-M. Maybe uneven coverage, because most of it was in the hellstrip. But the tank mix and followup app took care of it nicely.


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## thebmrust (Jun 29, 2020)

thecutter64 said:


> It seems as though everyone thinks Tenacity is the be alll and end all weed killer, PreEM out there. People talk about it in every post !


Weird, the only post I’ve read in the past few months that talks about tenacity, is yours.

Actually, I’m tired of hearing people ranting about things they can’t control. Or maybe they can… LOLz

full disclosure: I used tenacity once. It worked fine but freaked me out.

Everyone calm down. It’s only grass.

/snark


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## Vman12 (4 mo ago)

Green said:


> I had my neighbor (the person I told about Tenacity a few years ago) tank mix Quinclorac and Tenacity this Summer for mature crabgrass, because I was concerned about Tenacity alone not working, or resistance. It worked great that way. I think he also did a followup app of one or the other, too. I had him back down the Tenacity rate to 2oz per acre, and the Quinclorac was almost full rate. For whatever reason, he still had crabgrass despite using 2 split apps of pre-M. Maybe uneven coverage, because most of it was in the hellstrip. But the tank mix and followup app took care of it nicely.


Yep a good mix is the way to go in a lot of cases. One of my favorites on broadleaf stuff is Tenacity and SpeedZone.

Stips near the road can be tuff, especially if you live in a place where it gets a lot of salt in the winter.


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