# Overseeding my Ky31 mix Lawn with Jonathan green black beauty ultra?



## abhi (Aug 17, 2021)

Hi guys,

I'm new to the lawn care in general and just trying to up my game in it after I bought my first house 2 years ago. When I bought the house, I had really thin grass with bunch of clover, crabgrass & dandelions. So, I decided to overseed 15000 sqft (front and backyard) last year with little research and ended up using KY31 Tall fescue seed which I later regretted. Though my yard got way thicker than the last year but the clover infested pretty much everywhere in my front yard and not so much in the backyard. On top of that I didn't like the look of KY31 as well.
So, my plan this year is to overseed again but with Jonathan green black beauty ultra which I believe is a better seed than what I used last year. But, I just want to know if this is the right way to do it or not? Should I be okay to overseed a KY31 tall fescue lawn with Jonathan green black beauty ultra? Any help or suggestions are welcome as I'm just trying to learn here.
Thanks in advance!


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## thin_concrete (Sep 11, 2020)

Yes - short answer, is that yes you can overseed the KY31 into your existing lawn. The clover will continue to be a problem unless you address it though.

Kill it off now chemically, but make sure whatever you use allows you to put seed down without any delay. Also start looking for pre-emergents to put down in the spring to suppress clover/other growth (I use prodiamine for crabgrass control). I personally don't have a clover problem in my area, so I can't point you in any direction product-wise, but my best guess is that there are solutions available.


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## abhi (Aug 17, 2021)

Well! Thank you so much for your reply. I have used tenacity (mesotrione) this year and that did give me some success but not a whole lot. I'm planning to use it again during seeding as it is recommended per label (pre-emergent and post-emergent use). So fingers crossed!
So, If I understood you right, technically I will be fine using Black beauty ultra on a KY31 lawn?


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## 01Bullitt (Aug 31, 2020)

@abhi It looks like you have a Rural King in your town & they sell 50 pounds of Houndogs fescue blend from DLF Pickseed. Not sure what varieties are in Jonathan Green, but I took a pic of the seed tag from last year and looks like Houndogs has some good varities at a good price.
https://www.ruralking.com/catalog/product/view/id/112917


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## abhi (Aug 17, 2021)

@01Bullitt Thanks for the suggestion. I certainly do have rural king nearby and that's where I bought my KY31 last year. Houndogs brand certainly looks like a great choice especially with 0% weed seed. 
But, I was looking for a little blend of KBG in there too, so that my grass can fill in on its own in future years whereas the tall fescue is unable to do so as per my knowledge due to rhizomes absence. Have you had a good success with this seed? 
I have also gone ahead and attached a label that I found on the internet from last year for Jonathan green ultra grass seed for your reference. 
Thanks again for your help!


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## Old Hickory (Aug 19, 2019)

Yes, that seed is fine and it will give you some diversity with its small amount of KBG. and Rye There is plenty of good information in existing threads on overseeding including a Fall Renovation Guide in this forum. In addition, the Lawn Care Nut has a free overseeding guide:

https://thelawncarenut.com/blogs/news/fall-lawn-decisions-to-seed-or-not-to-seed


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## abhi (Aug 17, 2021)

@Old Hickory Thank you for the suggestion. I'll look into LCN overseeding guide too! Thanks


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## 01Bullitt (Aug 31, 2020)

abhi said:


> @01Bullitt Thanks for the suggestion. I certainly do have rural king nearby and that's where I bought my KY31 last year. Houndogs brand certainly looks like a great choice especially with 0% weed seed.
> But, I was looking for a little blend of KBG in there too, so that my grass can fill in on its own in future years whereas the tall fescue is unable to do so as per my knowledge due to rhizomes absence. Have you had a good success with this seed?
> I have also gone ahead and attached a label that I found on the internet from last year for Jonathan green ultra grass seed for your reference.
> Thanks again for your help!


You're welcome! I don't have experience with Houndogs but it caught my eye when I was browsing around Rural King. I would not hesitate to use it because it looks like a good blend. Thanks for attaching the Jonathan Green seed label. It looks like a good blend too and don't blame you for wanting some KBG in there. I am actually experimenting with some KBG in my back yard.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Don't expect much of the KBG to germinate and survive. The slower germination time will allow your existing grass to continue growing and make it harder for the KBG to thrive early on.

If your future goal is to get rid of the KY31, you're going to have to kill it and start over.

Tenacity has its purpose - using as your only defense against weeds, shouldn't be one of them.

Triclopyr is your best bet for clover. Your closest big box store should sell Weed B Gon CCO. Check the label for when you can seed after application.

For what it's worth, KY31 is considered a weed by most.


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## abhi (Aug 17, 2021)

@Harts Thanks for your advice! 
Main goal is to just have a healthy lawn and that was the reason I was thinking of overseeding my yard with JGBB ultra to see if it will all mix in and give a nicer look to yard. But, I totally get what you saying about KBG being too slow with germination and then KY31 taking over. I'll keep that in mind. I mind as well have to go with all TTTF as I don't want to burn my whole yard and start over as that certainly sounds like too much of work.


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## Old Hickory (Aug 19, 2019)

You don't need much of the *** to survive if your wish is to get a better quality of grass into your lawn. I say thrower down and you'll get your wish. What *** does survive will be a bonus.

Oh and shake/stir the bag of JG BBU seed as the *** is a smaller seed and it goes to the bottom of the bag.


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## abhi (Aug 17, 2021)

@Old Hickory That is such a great advice. I'll definitely shake the bag and go for it. Thanks again!


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## jimmythegreek (Aug 7, 2020)

My advise is to not waste seed mixing with k31. Tackle small chunks of the lawn and Reno. Ita not really more work than an overseed just an extra step. Once you get a nice uniform stand next to that 31 you will want to burn it away. That houndog looks pretty good actually


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## lawn-wolverine (Aug 15, 2021)

Cannot help myself…gotta comment ! Look, whoever developed K-31 deserves to spend eternity in a vat of K-31 clippings, kimchi, and Milorganite.
K-31 ought to be banned from the planet. It is a hideous weed, foisted on an ignorant populace as a real lawngrass option. It struggles to die and struggles to live respectably. The damnable stuff mocks any honest lawn owner with a hideous growth habit, creeping out of the ground at a 45 degree angle, defying those trying to honestly mow it into oblivion.
I would much rather have an extensive growth of crabgrass than K-31.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

K-31 has it's uses but not on a homeowners property. It should not be sold in big box stores to the unknowing


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## abhi (Aug 17, 2021)

@jimmythegreek Do you have any suggestions on killing KY31 in the yard? Should I be using Glyphosphate all over and burn it that way?


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## abhi (Aug 17, 2021)

@lawn-wolverine I kind of want to agree with you on KY31 look and use. Not sure why I went that route to start with last year. Just complete ignorance I guess!


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## abhi (Aug 17, 2021)

@M32075 Agree with you! I got it from rural king after watching few videos on YouTube where they actually recommended this grass seed over and over and me being a complete rookie at this just picked up with my eyes closed.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Who on YouTube recommended KY-31 grass seed?


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## lawn-wolverine (Aug 15, 2021)

Harts said:


> Who on YouTube recommended KY-31 grass seed?


I cannot remember the guy, but I saw an article recently (yes!), big and boldly recommending. But a poster here recently and very correctly stated that big box stores should be banned from selling the dastardly stuff. An employed labor force (non-English speaking) in my neighborhood distributed K-31 on my (formerly) 100% monostand zoysia lawn. Likely thought they were "helping" me. I will likely NEVER get rid of that blotchy mess. I try to mow it down in summer (punishment)and occasionally clipper it to the dirt level. It slows it down.


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## Stoked33 (Apr 23, 2021)

@abhi same boat, if it makes you feel any better! I was a complete noob and wanted to overseed my thin TTTF lawn. With my ignorance, and looking for an affordable route, I went with KY31. Thank the lord I was ignorant with watering as well!! A lot of KY31 never germinated. I still have some issues with color and some orchard grass infestation from the project. However, through healthy lawn regimen, the small amounts of KY31 has become less noticeable. I am continuing to overseed with quality TTTF. To the death of KY31!! Best of luck


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## abhi (Aug 17, 2021)

@Harts @lawn-wolverine I don't remember it anymore though. But once I googled it, there are couple of YouTube channels that pop up and looks familiar too. Here are the names:
1. Name it Build it
2. Break Free Homestead


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

@lawn-wolverine you can get rid of it but it requires killing off everything.

KY-31 does have a purpose. It may not be desirable for people on TLF, but there are several benefits including drought and heat tolerance along with being low maintenance.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Ask in the Warm season folder, but I'm pretty sure you can kill the fescue in a zoysia lawn with celsius herbicide. In a cool season lawn, you will need to use glyphosate + seeds to get rid of the K31.


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## kevreh (Apr 3, 2018)

abhi said:


> So, my plan this year is to overseed again but with Jonathan green black beauty ultra which I believe is a better seed than what I used last year. But, I just want to know if this is the right way to do it or not? Should I be okay to overseed a KY31 tall fescue lawn with Jonathan green black beauty ultra? Any help or suggestions are welcome as I'm just trying to learn here.
> Thanks in advance!


I think the right question is how much harder is it to just kill it and seed everything with something you pick? I mean, your never really going to be happy until you go down that road. mixing ky31 and Jonathen Green will create a franken-lawn. And if/when you do a complete reno a year or two from now, you'll look back and think that you wasted that time and effort (overseeding) and should have done it sooner vs later. Considering you have 15k feet, you may need to rent some equipment to help. How smooth is your lawn? If not very smooth look into renting something called a Harley Rake.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

You can split a renovation to make it manageable. Do the front one year back another. If backyard is huge you can also split that


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## jimmythegreek (Aug 7, 2020)

Yes I would gly it right away. Seeding time is soon. Hit it hard with cheap generic gly and do it again a week later. Watch for it to start wilting and cut it as low as possible and bag it up before it wilts lower than ur blade height. Then seed like normal. The reno guide posted as a sticky is excellent info for details. Tttf would look 100x better than that clumping pasture grass


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## abhi (Aug 17, 2021)

g-man said:


> Ask in the Warm season folder, but I'm pretty sure you can kill the fescue in a zoysia lawn with celsius herbicide. In a cool season lawn, you will need to use glyphosate + seeds to get rid of the K31.


Thanks @g-man I will be using some cheap glyphosphate to do the job then!


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## abhi (Aug 17, 2021)

kevreh said:


> abhi said:
> 
> 
> > So, my plan this year is to overseed again but with Jonathan green black beauty ultra which I believe is a better seed than what I used last year. But, I just want to know if this is the right way to do it or not? Should I be okay to overseed a KY31 tall fescue lawn with Jonathan green black beauty ultra? Any help or suggestions are welcome as I'm just trying to learn here.
> ...


@kevreh Its definitely not super smooth but certainly don't have any bumps either. Certainly have two to three low spots where I had to cut the tree down but besides that I guess its just fine. I believe I should just deal with first half of my front yard this year rather than doing it all and see how the whole thing goes out for me and repeat it again next year. 
Thanks!


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## abhi (Aug 17, 2021)

M32075 said:


> You can split a renovation to make it manageable. Do the front one year back another. If backyard is huge you can also split that


@M32075 That's good advice. I believe I should be doing just the front half of my front yard and just see how that whole situation goes and try the same next year if it works out good for me.


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