# TTTF & PRG blend



## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

Does anyone have a lawn journal or experiences where they renovated with tttf and prg only? Seems like it's only monostands, PRG/KBG, TTTF/KBG,etc.

I haven't seen much on mixing TTTF&PRG for an overseed or Renos.

Given the nice dark color of both prg and tttf cultivators now, seems like it would work well together.


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## npompei (Sep 8, 2019)

Following - I went all PRG (newbie, I know) in SE PA and when I overseed come this fall I was hoping to do a TTTF and ***. But oddly enough, my supplier only has PPG & KBG or a mix of the 3. I was hoping to just mix in TTTF & KBG to help the PRG out in the summer.

I just picked up 2 big bags to seed a bit off my new sidewalk and then overseed in the fall but realized, it's 70% PRG and 30% ***! Gah! Hope they will take them back. Anyone have thoughts on mixing just PRG & KBG?!


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

npompei said:


> Following - I went all PRG (newbie, I know) in SE PA and when I overseed come this fall I was hoping to do a TTTF and ***. But oddly enough, my supplier only has PPG & KBG or a mix of the 3. I was hoping to just mix in TTTF & KBG to help the PRG out in the summer.
> 
> I just picked up 2 big bags to seed a bit off my new sidewalk and then overseed in the fall but realized, it's 70% PRG and 30% ***! Gah! Hope they will take them back. Anyone have thoughts on mixing just PRG & KBG?!


I can't really do a kbg lawn since I would be overseeding. I used KBG/TTTF on a small portion of my lawn reno last year and it's struggling. It's a spot that isn't really conducive to KBG, I don't think. The cultivators that PRG have now are beautiful. I know they have their disadvantages but Ryan Knorr seems to have an incredible prg monostand.

I overseeded last year with tttf, if it's needed, I was entertaining the idea of mixing both for an overseed. Trying to see if anyone has any experience or if it's a good idea


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

I did a fall over seed two years ago with Hancock PRG then last fall did a fall over seed with summer TTTF check my journal if it's any help. So far I'm happy with it but let's see how it gets through the summer


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

M32075 said:


> I did a fall over seed two years ago with Hancock PRG then last fall did a fall over seed with summer TTTF check my journal if it's any help. So far I'm happy with it but let's see how it gets through the summer


Nice. I'll reach up. You're in the northeast which will give a fair assessment. Do you have a link?


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:



> M32075 said:
> 
> 
> > I did a fall over seed two years ago with Hancock PRG then last fall did a fall over seed with summer TTTF check my journal if it's any help. So far I'm happy with it but let's see how it gets through the summer
> ...


Look up in cool season journal " Nick's L.I. NY tall fescue overseed into PRG"


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## npompei (Sep 8, 2019)

@M32075 just read through your journal, looking good! Question, why not mix in any KBG? Not questioning why you didn't, just curious what your thought process is?

As I mentioned above, I'm trying to figure out what to mix in with my 100% PRG for my overseed this fall and was thinking to just mix in TTTF with KBG to help spread into bare areas?

My seed guy accidentally gave me 70% PRG and 30% KBG so now I'm wondering if I just stick with this or mix in TTTF?


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

npompei said:


> @M32075 just read through your journal, looking good! Question, why not mix in any KBG? Not questioning why you didn't, just curious what your thought process is?
> 
> As I mentioned above, I'm trying to figure out what to mix in with my 100% PRG for my overseed this fall and was thinking to just mix in TTTF with KBG to help spread into bare areas?
> 
> My seed guy accidentally gave me 70% PRG and 30% KBG so now I'm wondering if I just stick with this or mix in TTTF?


Rye grass is allelopathic. What ever seed you mix with it will eventually dye off. Rye grass will dominant. I went with TTTF because of quick germinating and seeded really heavy. I'll do the same this fall so hopefully it dominant over the rye. KBG I needed to do a full kill to plant didn't have the time. The odds of KBG sprouting then spreading in a rye lawn are not good because of allelopathic. Google it for more information


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## npompei (Sep 8, 2019)

M32075 said:


> npompei said:
> 
> 
> > @M32075 just read through your journal, looking good! Question, why not mix in any KBG? Not questioning why you didn't, just curious what your thought process is?
> ...


Excellent info, I really appreciate it!


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

@Green uses a lot of different varieties, and has both in his yard, but I'm not sure if he has just TTTF/PRG in one particular section.


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

M32075 said:


> npompei said:
> 
> 
> > @M32075 just read through your journal, looking good! Question, why not mix in any KBG? Not questioning why you didn't, just curious what your thought process is?
> ...


So why would companies have northern mixes that would include anything else besides rye? Doesn't make much sense.

Since I have existing rye in my lawn, Makes me now think that my fall overseed could have been a waste of time and money, SSS money mind you.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

When I had my full rye grass lawn it was really beautiful. The shine , color and thickness was incredible. Summer heat and fungus ended it quick. Before that it was a northeast mix it was ok at best it was mostly rye the KBG and fescue never really took off.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> M32075 said:
> 
> 
> > npompei said:
> ...


Grass seed companies like putting rye in there mixes because of quick germination. In 7 days you see grass sprouts customer is impressed


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Also remember in a 70/30 mix of rye/kbg is a 50/50 mix . Kbg seed is much smaller than rye seed


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## Scagfreedom48z+ (Oct 6, 2018)

M32075 said:


> Also remember in a 70/30 mix of rye/kbg is a 50/50 mix . Kbg seed is much smaller than rye seed


I overseeded mostly with 4th millennium and regenerate TTTF last year. I'm going to see how the season goes, I'll most likely overseed it heavy again with the same cultivars. I'm still not seeing that "dark" color from those cultivars yet, not sure if it's just that the grass is still young or not.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

One overlooked reason for including PRG in the mix, is to stabilize the area to reduce erosion/washouts. For a kbg/PRG mix, there should be no more than 20% PRG(80/20 kbg/PRG). Otherwise, the rye will dominate over time. This equates to about 95% kbg in the mix (1,250,000 kbg seeds/lb and 250,000 PRG seeds/lb, generally speaking).

A TTTF/PRG mix will be close to the % of seed by weight in the mix, because the size of the seeds are very similar (~250,000/ lb).


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> M32075 said:
> 
> 
> > Also remember in a 70/30 mix of rye/kbg is a 50/50 mix . Kbg seed is much smaller than rye seed
> ...


I've only heard great things from that mix. I agree give it time to mature I'm sure you will be happy. Stay ahead of fungus get a good prevention plan in place.


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Chris LI said:


> One overlooked reason for including PRG in the mix, is to stabilize the area to reduce erosion/washouts. For a kbg/PRG mix, there should be no more than 20% PRG(80/20 kbg/PRG). Otherwise, the rye will dominate over time. This equates to about 95% kbg in the mix (1,250,000 kbg seeds/lb and 250,000 PRG seeds/lb, generally speaking).
> 
> A TTTF/PRG mix will be close to the % of seed by weight in the mix, because the size of the seeds are very similar (~250,000/ lb).


Excellent information 👍


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Chris LI said:


> @Green uses a lot of different varieties, and has both in his yard, but I'm not sure if he has just TTTF/PRG in one particular section.


I don't have experience with that particular combination, personally. But I've heard of it being used with good results long-term. I think it's a fairly high maintenance mixture, but then again, most mixes and blends are anyway. Also, TTTF is fairly slow to germinate and grow in, and does not do so great when planted with lots of Ryegrass around it in my experience. I had a lot of TTTF that was stuck in the two-tiller stage for a few years in my TTTF/KBG/TTPR mix. So, the trick is to use a high TTTF percentage and low TTPR percentage, like 95/5 to 90/10, and not apply more seed than required to the soil.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

M32075 said:


> Rye grass is allelopathic.


And so are Tall and Fine Fescue, but for some reason, you never hear about it.


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## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

This post has some photos of such mixes:
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=168575#p168575

Also, Allyn Hane's lawn was supposedly not 100% TTTF. He once mentioned it had a low PR percentage in it. Jake still features it in videos every so often.


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