# POA t attack



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

I have this to deal with...

https://imgur.com/a/0zEc0

(Don't mind the lines, host the circles are important)

Want to verify my plan. Weather will break soon enough. Do I glyphosphate the patches now, wait for death and repair? Or, since the patches are smallish, do I dig them out, replace dirt and seed?

Target date for either is within the next 2 weeks, they are calling for snow on Wednesday...

I would just pre-m around the patches as I plan to spray prodiamine, makes life easier than granular that is harder to control and your covering sports with a tarp


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I would not mess around with poa t. Glyphosphate now. Wait for it to die. Glyphosphate again. Then, dig out and replace with plugs from another section of the lawn (back/side).


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

@g-man the big question really is the need for glyphosphate and the wait for kill vs a dig out and seed.

Also, going the plug route, I assume the plug from the front here should be disposed of.


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

Second is this other half of the front where there are spots, but they are not as distinct.

The debate is whether to treat these as potentially POA t of consider them a discoloration.

I fear POA t because they are quite circular.

https://imgur.com/a/tzGE4

It. Doesn't help a ton that the sun came over the house, it is more obvious when it is shaded


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Digging out is hard if you miss some roots. It will come back. I will not use the plug anywhere else. Dispose of it in the trash.


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

Ok, that's what I thought.

POA t or what is most likely POA t is the number one reason I plan to kill the grass in the woods. When bagging, I am Back and forth through the woods, dumping clippings at the back of the property line.


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

The back is even worse, ugh. Trying to have a plan the doesn't have me kill the entire back yard before summer for the kids.

https://imgur.com/4NaNnPm


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Since you don't have a good area to take grass from in the back yard without spreading more Triv around, I would consider growing sod in trays or pots, since you have such a small area to replace. I'm going through something similar.


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

yeah, There are spots with some decent enough grass, but the issue is the larger patches of it creeping on my space.

My bigger concern is handling one or the other. The large patch in the middle for the back is something I killed as it was some unknown grass that was real fine and quick to go dormant. It was also different than all the grass around it. I started last year, intended to fix it, then ran out of time.

If I do not remove the poa t, should I be concerned about spreading it while mowing? My fear is if I start going after all the patches, I will kill half the back yard and then it may not recover in time for summer playing. I also do not have irrigation in the back, so keeping moist is a bit more difficult.


----------



## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

That's just part of the evil of Triv. The only real time we have to kill it is Spring when we can see it. It'll go dormant in May, and won't see it again till next spring. The reason for roundup is that the plant will move the glyphosate around the plant to the roots, which is what you need to kill, and you need to get ALL of them or it'll just be back next spring from any roots you missed. Then you dig it out with an extra 6-12 inches, replace the soil with bagged soil (because you don't know what's in any donor dirt you might shovel up from the back wood line.

I'm with @Green in starting some pots that you can drop in. You can even use those pots to help fill in the middle section of the back. If you grow deep enough pots (3 in depth), this will greatly increase the survival of the pots since the'll already have decent root depth to find water in the summer.

I can guarantee you aren't even seeing all the triv yet. If you want to find it all, wait till temps are consistently in the upper 50's / 60's and do a blanket app of Tenacity at 4oz / Acre rate. It'll light it up like a Christmas tree, but it won't kill it.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but if you are just mowing and not disturbing the soil (which won't bring any roots to the surface to move) you won't spread the triv to other areas.


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

LawnNerd said:


> Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but if you are just mowing and not disturbing the soil (which won't bring any roots to the surface to move) you won't spread the triv to other areas.


If this proves true, this will relieve some anxiety I have.

The back is in bad shape, but if I were to take it in stride, things become easier.

1. deal with the smaller patches in the front, get that right
2. fix the big patch of dirt in the back. I know i need to do some leveling, so thinking to call a landscaper with a skid steer to do it right. Just seed it and hope it survives into summer.
3. Dont mess with the other "patches" in the back until 1&2 are complete. making too much work will ruin the yard for the summer and the kids cant play.

The hardest thing is that for the last few years I have been fighting with poa A and so I put pre-m in the spring and fall and never get to over seed. It makes for no goo time to plant seed, etc. Last year I learned my fall treatments prior were not soon enough, so I am hoping this year I got. This would make doing things in the fall possible.

As for the poa t itself. The one consideration in certainty. It is pricey, but also seems to go a long way. 1.25oz for $95. This article states .25-.5 oz/acre, https://www.agry.purdue.edu/turfnew/tips/2007/06_01poatriv.htm

With 13k yard, I can get several treatments in, potentially over the next few summers. This eliminates the need for killing and planting after say the things I correct this year. Thoughts there too?.


----------



## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Lawnnerd is right, no spreading from mowing.

Certainty removed cool season lawns from the label. The qty to apply is very small and an error leads to killing your lawn. It also makes the current lawn suffer. Hence why I did not mentioned it.


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

g-man said:


> Lawnnerd is right, no spreading from mowing.
> 
> Certainty removed cool season lawns from the label. The qty to apply is very small and an error leads to killing your lawn. It also makes the current lawn suffer. Hence why I did not mentioned it.


so what you are saying is, avoid the certainty and instead, for the next few years, work in small patches, a few per year...

At the end of the day, it is true that after the spring, the patches are gone. However, when they are, they are such an eye sore. As I walk to get the newspaper sunday morning, walk the drive, surveying the lawn. Every time, a little piece of me dies


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

Try to get as many of the small patches as you can this Spring. I know it sounds counterintuitive, but that's honestly the way to go. Once you get rid of the small ones, start working on the larger ones. You might need Roundup for those, and then have to reseed/sod/pot. Don't use Roundup with anything other than gly in it.

The selective herbicides that kill or substantially weaken Triv (which are all either really expensive and/or disappearing, it seems) are kind of finicky and don't do that great a job. If you end up stuck with patches that have a mix of Triv and good grass, you can use them, but they will kill some of your good grass, and it might take multiple years of doing that and overseeding. Always use seed with 0.00 weed and other crop.

I'd start growing KBG in pots or trays now, so you have it ready when you need it. You can throw some PR seed on top once the plugs are transplanted to their final place in the lawn, to keep the same mix of grass.


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

I just start growing grass inside, like many might do with their pepper plants in the window and a spray bottle of water.


----------



## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

kolbasz said:


> . . . The hardest thing is that for the last few years I have been fighting with poa A and so I put pre-m in the spring and fall and never get to over seed. It makes for no goo(d) time to plant seed, etc. . .


Lawd Brother, you ... are ... not ... alone ...

I chew on this same thought, over and over, much of the time I am out working in the yard, every day. Sigh. First world problems, eh?

Oh well, Keep On Keepin' On! :thumbup:


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

Yeah, I did a heavy prodiamine last August so I am hoping I am past the POA a for a year.


----------



## Green (Dec 24, 2017)

kolbasz said:


> The back is even worse, ugh. Trying to have a plan the doesn't have me kill the entire back yard before summer for the kids.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/4NaNnPm


Looking at this photo, before you start filling the spot you killed last year in the back, I would kill/remove all of the Triv spots that are directly touching it. That way, it won't come back into the area.


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

Yeah, what sucks is the back is so bad I just can't deal with it now. Need to focus on fixing what o started in the fall. Hoping to get a guy to bring me some dirt and level things out. It always gets so soupy in the spring and fall, assuming it is poor sloping.


----------



## 440mag (Jan 29, 2018)

Be cautious; I would never wish on another hobbyist (?) what was in two separate "dirt deliveries." 2 or more years apart.

Wireworms in one and untold weed seed-bombs in another.

Now, I "make" my own (peat and bagged top / planting soil). I would add bagged compost but, I have terrible problems with anything resembling any stage of manure attracting wild turkeys which do more damage than tanks (but, that's a separate thread)

Now, back on track with this thread!


----------



## kevreh (Apr 3, 2018)

LawnNerd said:


> ...
> 
> I can guarantee you aren't even seeing all the triv yet. If you want to find it all, wait till temps are consistently in the upper 50's / 60's and do a blanket app of Tenacity at 4oz / Acre rate. It'll light it up like a Christmas tree, but it won't kill it.
> 
> ...


When you spray with Tenacity, do you spray the grass around the poa-t too, then when the poa "lights up" you'll know for sure so you can proceed with glypho? I think thats what you mean by doing a blanket spray.


----------



## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

No, by blanket spray I mean spray the whole yard. There maybe spots that are young and thus not noticible to you yet.


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

LawnNerd said:


> No, by blanket spray I mean spray the whole yard. There maybe spots that are young and thus not noticible to you yet.


I such case, how do you decipher POA t from something else that bleached and may not require glyphosphate


----------



## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

Well, then at that point you'll have to inspect it to see if it Poa T or something else. I'd then spray paint a circle 6" wider than the poa T and hit those areas with the Glypho.

Tenacity will highlight other weeds susceptible to it, but the goal is not to highlight just the Poa T, but to show you if you have other area od Poa T that you aren't seeing yet.


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

LawnNerd said:


> Well, then at that point you'll have to inspect it to see if it Poa T or something else. I'd then spray paint a circle 6" wider than the poa T and hit those areas with the Glypho.
> 
> Tenacity will highlight other weeds susceptible to it, but the goal is not to highlight just the Poa T, but to show you if you have other area od Poa T that you aren't seeing yet.


And this is at the ½ oz per k rate and something that should be done sooner than later I bet.


----------



## LawnNerd (Sep 2, 2017)

it's .55 teaspoons per K. I'd do it when your ground is thawed and temps are in the 50's for a good few day stretch. You want the Poa T. to be growing, and continue to grow to really pull in the Mesitrione.


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

I knew oz sounded too much, I'd need a bottle per app


----------



## kolbasz (Jun 7, 2017)

I got to get a first mow in today. May need to go after a bit more POA t. Once I do tenacity I will know for sure, but after a cut, I can definitely see more light green circles.


----------

