# My Fall Lawn Plan (NY) - *Updated Plan



## pinocchio (Jul 29, 2020)

Thanks to everyones help getting my irrigation dialed in. I feel like it's a small step towards getting everything on track.

Now I want to figure out my fall plan. After reading a bunch of posts on here I've realized that I may have been doing my fall overseeding and fertilizing too late in the past. Usually I do it around the 3rd week of Sept, but it seems like mid August is actually the better time, so that's what I am shooting for this year.

So I have a few questions...

1) Is mid August the correct time?
2) What is the best way to get rid of the weeds prior to re-seeding and overseeding? Considering it's already August should I use a herbicide or just rake it out?
3)I'm assuming I aerate and dethatch at this time as well?
4) Since I am planting new seed as well as overseeding is Scott's Starter Fertilizer + Halts a good choice? Or should I stick to the "Nitrogen Blitz"?
5) Should I be putting down Tenacity?

I know there are a lot of questions there, but you guys are super smart! And I'm really looking to get a nice regiment to follow for the years to come. So thanks in advance for any advice!

Also, this is the current state of my lawn. As you can see there is a lot of weeds and dead spots. I've been handpicking most of the crabgrass and will continue over the next week or so. I also have a weed that I can't identify. If any of you know please let me know.








What weed is this? It pulls out super easy, but is in large clumps. It's the neon green looking weed in the above photos.


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## pinocchio (Jul 29, 2020)

Just bumping this because I am looking to get started in the next few weeks. Sorry if there were too many questions earlier.

The major question I need answered is what pre-emergent/fertilizer should I put down with all the new seed? Tenacity or Scott's Starter fertilizer with Weed Control?



Thanks!


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## Lawnsnotmygame (Jun 3, 2020)

Probably tenacity.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The Scott product has tenacity active ingredient (mesotrione). Use only one of the two.


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## pinocchio (Jul 29, 2020)

@g-man Thanks!

So I've gone ahead and have Tenacity and my SS5000 Sunny Mixture (from SeedSuperStore) coming this weekend. My plan is first mow down to about 1 inch. Then I'm going to pull/rake out as much of the weeds as I can. Then I'm going to till the big areas with a rototiller, and rake the smaller patches to loosen the dirt.

I'm then going to put down the seed, ensure contact to the soil, and then spray tenacity.

2 questions...

1) How long do I wait to water the new seed? I'm afraid to rinse away the Tenacity. Or do I water first, and then spray the Tenacity?

2) Should I be putting down any additional fertilizer? From what I've read, it sounds like you don't want to put down too much nitrogen or the existing grass will overpower the seed. But I would like to give the seed a good start.

Thanks!


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

Let me offer another plan.

Just hit it with round up now. Whatever dies will die. Mow it down to 1 inch like you said and then overseed. You will have a much better result if you kill everything there. What you are getting from seed superstore is going to be genetically superior grass to what you have now. Get some round up ASAP and spray it down north to south and east to west. You don't have to wait for it to turn yellow. You can mow to 1 inch and drop the seed. Make sure you bag all the clippings.

You won't be disappointed with the results.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

1) It is ok to water. You only need to water for 5min not 30min. The idea to keep the soil moist.
2) mother nature gave the seed all it need to grow the firsts weeks. No need to do nitrogen right away.


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## pinocchio (Jul 29, 2020)

@john5246 
How long do I have to wait after roundup to seed?


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

pinocchio said:


> @john5246
> How long do I have to wait after roundup to seed?


You don't. You can seed right away. RoundUp works on contact of anything that is green. It doesn't prevent seeds (grass or weeds) from germinating.

Ensure to smooth and level the area after tilling.


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## pinocchio (Jul 29, 2020)

@Harts

So just to be clear if I go the roundup route, I spray the weeds, and then dig them up? How long do I let roundup do its work before digging them up?


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

pinocchio said:


> @Harts
> 
> So just to be clear if I go the roundup route, I spray the weeds, and then dig them up? How long do I let roundup do its work before digging them up?


You don't need to dig up the weeds. They'll be dead. Do a scalp (bag the clippings) then any soil and leveling before seed.


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## pinocchio (Jul 29, 2020)

Harts said:


> You don't need to dig up the weeds. They'll be dead. Do a scalp (bag the clippings) then any soil and leveling before seed.


@Harts I hope I'm not overcomplicating this, but how will the seed make contact to the soil if the dead/dying weeds are still there?

Thanks for all the feedback!


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

The weeds die off and wilt away. Scalping helps remove most remains.

To my knowledge, nobody on the forum has every sprayed round up then dug up the weeds. Digging them up negates the need for roundup.

No different then killing your grass then spreading seed. You do not need to remove the dead grass.


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

Yeah you can drop your seed while the old grass is still green (it's dead or dying but won't turn yellow for a while). In the meantime your new grass will start to germinate, making it an almost seemless transition.

Whether you choose to wait for the grass to turn yellow or not is up to you. If you have the time go ahead and wait. Remember to spray twice, once north to south and again east to west (very important)


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

pinocchio said:


> Harts said:
> 
> 
> > You don't need to dig up the weeds. They'll be dead. Do a scalp (bag the clippings) then any soil and leveling before seed.
> ...


if after cutting on the lowest setting of your mower the weeds are too dense you can take a weed wacker/string trimmer and scalp it all the way to the bare ground :thumbup:


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## john5246 (Jul 21, 2019)

You will love the final result, it will be well worth the extra cost of buying the round-up and tank spray if you don't already have one.

Next spring make sure you have the Scotts w Halts crabgrass preventer ready to go.


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## pinocchio (Jul 29, 2020)

Awesome, thanks for all the feedback! My plan is to spray Roundup this weekend, and then give it a week to work before I scalp and seed.

As far as the Tenacity, sounds like it's ok to seed, spray tenacity and then water with no worries of rinsing away the Tenacity?


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## Agiuliano10 (Apr 21, 2020)

pinocchio said:


> Awesome, thanks for all the feedback! My plan is to spray Roundup this weekend, and then give it a week to work before I scalp and seed.
> 
> As far as the Tenacity, sounds like it's ok to seed, spray tenacity and then water with no worries of rinsing away the Tenacity?


In the same process as you and from what I've gathered it's best to spray your tenacity down then seed then begin your watering

I'm planning on getting my tenacity down the day before seeding. If you did that there'd be no issue with it washing away from your first watering


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## pinocchio (Jul 29, 2020)

@Agiuliano10

Thanks for the information. Do you happen to know If you apply the day before, and then you scratch in the seed the next if that will affect the Tenacity at all? Does the soil need to be undisturbed after applying?


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

@pinocchio & @Agiuliano10 spray Tenacity as your last step - after you put your seed down. 
In this case, you are using Tenacity as a pre-emergent. It will not get washed away when you start watering your seed. It needs to get into the soil anyway. Regardless, you won't be running your irrigation for very long; so there isn't a fear of run off.


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## Agiuliano10 (Apr 21, 2020)

@pinocchio go by @Harts not by me. I'm a newbie to all this. I'll be putting down last. Thanks @Harts


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## steve392 (May 30, 2020)

Harts said:


> @pinocchio & @Agiuliano10 spray Tenacity as your last step - after you put your seed down.
> In this case, you are using Tenacity as a pre-emergent. It will not get washed away when you start watering your seed. It needs to get into the soil anyway. Regardless, you won't be running your irrigation for very long; so there isn't a fear of run off.


Is this the round up you would use to kill everything?
https://www.domyown.com/roundup-weed-grass-killer-concentrate-plus-p-4033.html


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

steve392 said:


> Harts said:
> 
> 
> > @pinocchio & @Agiuliano10 spray Tenacity as your last step - after you put your seed down.
> ...


Yes. Any roundup will kill everything.


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## psilva (Feb 29, 2020)

[/url]
What weed is this? It pulls out super easy, but is in large clumps. It's the neon green looking weed in the above photos.
[/quote]

This is Japanese stilt grass and it's very invasive. The only thing that will help control it is 'Acclaim Xtra"


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## pinocchio (Jul 29, 2020)

Thanks all!!

So a little update... first the good...

I did end up using round up last weekend. It did a great job on all the Japanese stilt grass and clover. I had pulled most of the crabgrass. Then this weekend I dethatched (which pulled out most of the now dead weeds). The lawn was looking nice and prepped.

And now the bad...

I did however run into a problem when I started to put down the seed that I bought from superseed. I SEVERELY under ordered. I was only able to seed about half of the yard. Seeing as there is rain in the future for this week I had to go ahead and water it in. Now my thinking is to quickly order more, and do the second part of the lawn. Question is, when do I put down the Tenacity? Spray it now or wait until all the seed in the yard is down? Also I still feel like I need to add another pass in some areas of the lawn I already seeded. Can I do that without harm, or should I wait?

Thanks!


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## gregfromohio (Aug 14, 2019)

SSS seeds typically are delivered to me in one or two days, so order it now. You can do either or on the tenacity. It's not a fertilizer, only a weed control product.


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## pinocchio (Jul 29, 2020)

A little update on my lawn with some questions.

It's been about 9 days since I put down the seed and Tenacity. The grass is starting to come in, but I'm worried that it's coming in too thin. I followed all of the watering and seeding rates and was wondering if this is looking correct.

The little side yard portion that is all new grass seems to be a bit thinner than the yard portion, but both seem a bit thin to me. Thoughts?


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