# North of Toronto Canada Newbie questions Grass type/Future plans



## W8INLINE (May 27, 2018)

Hello everyone,

I joined the forum last year and I started my lawn care journey shortly after. Before that I moved in to the new house 5 years ago and other than mowing every sunday (if it rained every other sunday) I did nothing else to it....also figured cutting low around 1.75 to 2 inches will keep the weeds out of sight :lol: My weed garden looked amazing lol. I don't have any pictures from back then but it looked very similar to my neighbor's here


Now being up in Canada I am not able to find anything that works like the guys from south of the border so the only thing I did last year was fertilize, mow taller 2 times a week and threw down about 10 yards of top soil over some areas. I live on a 1.25 acre lot and I am surrounded by properties like the above pic and a wooded area across the street to my east side. As youcan see on the pic of my backyard bellow we don't have fences so that helps weed seeds fly everywhere 


This year I found out from here about Seed world and placed an order of Prodiamine got a backpack sprayer and went to town put down 2 fert apps so far and my lawn looks much better this year so far.

Although I read and watched videos on grass type ID I'm still not 100% in my ability to tell them apart I think I have a variety of bluegrass, rye and fescue.








I love the look of some KBG lawns a few members here have and would love to go that route, however there is no way I could do a reno on 35k sq ft, so I figured I'll take my chances and overseed with *** and hope for the best. I know I will always have old grass types` this way but it is what it is. A local store sells seed at 50% *** and 50% rye. Would that be an option or should I find a place that sells 100%*** varieties and overseed with 100% ***?

I apologize for the long post.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

I'm also north of Toronto 

I'd advise against trying to overseed KBG. The results are generally disappointing, and a waste of expensive seed. I tried in 2017, then did a full reno in 2018 to get what I wanted.

Is there a smaller area of turf that is the sort of focal area or framing for the house that you could have as your showpiece, and let the football field area just be decent?


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## Skwebby (Apr 21, 2019)

I am from Barrie. If you are in the neighbourhood I can let you know where I got my seed. It can be tough up here. Generally the nearest sod farm is good for KBG, but some independent stores carry named varieties of PRG, for example, if you want to overseed. Welcome to the forum.


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## W8INLINE (May 27, 2018)

My local TSC had their quicksun seed which is a mix of 50%*** and 50%PRG on sale for $89 so I bought a couple of bags for some bare spots and was thinking to do my overseeding with that every year in Hope's that slowly I increase my *** % in the lawn. I ride my bike past Barrie once or twice a month....im not very far from there


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## Skwebby (Apr 21, 2019)

If you are ever near Elmvale, Ritchies feed and seeds sells named varieties of seed, in nondescript bags, that originate from Quality seed. I like the PRG mix, it is excellent for overseeding, and, since my lawn is mainly PRG anyway, I use it for patching. By the way, I like the peat moss in the golden bags from TSC, no sticks or debris, good stuff, as well as their urea.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

I don't see any reason to overseed with anything. Your lawn already looks thick. I see a lot of seed heads in your last two pictures which leads me to believe you have a fair amount of KBG already. Feed the lawn come fall time if there are any thin areas and get some herbicide to deal with any weeds you need to take care of.


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## W8INLINE (May 27, 2018)

I thought those seed heads were ryegrass...lol shows how much I know. Was planning on a very light fert app before the heat comes, then wait till mid August and do a good app of the TSC 9-2-2 stuff that has worked great for me last year then 5 weeks later either a nitrogen blitz or try mylo at the bag rate which means 12 bags


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

W8INLINE said:


> I thought those seed heads were ryegrass...lol shows how much I know. Was planning on a very light fert app before the heat comes, then wait till mid August and do a good app of the TSC 9-2-2 stuff that has worked great for me last year then 5 weeks later either a nitrogen blitz or try mylo at the bag rate which means 12 bags


I don't see anything wrong with that plan but I would start the N blitz earlier than late September. Late August is probably better for our area.


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## W8INLINE (May 27, 2018)

Skwebby said:


> If you are ever near Elmvale, Ritchies feed and seeds sells named varieties of seed, in nondescript bags, that originate from Quality seed. I like the PRG mix, it is excellent for overseeding, and, since my lawn is mainly PRG anyway, I use it for patching. By the way, I like the peat moss in the golden bags from TSC, no sticks or debris, good stuff, as well as their urea.


I know Elmvale. It's about 100kms from me....a nice hour and 15min drive. TSC had their Urea on sale from $49 down to $29 last week....picked up a couple of bags for the fall


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

W8INLINE said:


> I thought those seed heads were ryegrass...lol shows how much I know. Was planning on a very light fert app before the heat comes, then wait till mid August and do a good app of the TSC 9-2-2 stuff that has worked great for me last year then 5 weeks later either a nitrogen blitz or try mylo at the bag rate which means 12 bags


I would not do Milo so late. It is too cold to help. Just go straight urea. Snowbob11 has done this in the past. I think you follow his schedule.


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## W8INLINE (May 27, 2018)

I'm following a variation of the cool season grass schedule from Allyn Hane as far as the fert cycles go. So good results last year when I used it.


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

Your lawn looks great. Just keep doing what your doing. Do you have an irrigation system?


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## W8INLINE (May 27, 2018)

Shindoman said:


> Your lawn looks great. Just keep doing what your doing. Do you have an irrigation system?


Yes I do. 10 zones 50 heads, but have not used it this year with all the rain we have been getting


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## Shindoman (Apr 22, 2018)

Do you have a journal going? Looks like a LOTM candidate here.


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## W8INLINE (May 27, 2018)

Wow Shindowman, you're making me blush, but my lawn is far far from where I want it to be. Maybe next year...lol


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

W8INLINE said:


> TSC 9-2-2 stuff that has worked great for me last year


can not find this on TSC site. any more details for me to look into?

Would love to toss down a slow release organic right now if its something I can get.... today.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

MMoore said:


> W8INLINE said:
> 
> 
> > TSC 9-2-2 stuff that has worked great for me last year
> ...


I think he meant HH, not TSC for the 9-2-2.


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

ah yeah.

I will drop by the local HH but I doubt they will have it on the floor for some reason.


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## cfinden (Aug 7, 2018)

I agree the lawn looks great already! That's a lot of irrigation!

@MMoore I've had good results with Soybean Meal and Alfafla Pellets from any farm supply store. Cost me $16 each for a 50lb bag.


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

cfinden said:


> I agree the lawn looks great already! That's a lot of irrigation!
> 
> @MMoore I've had good results with Soybean Meal and Alfafla Pellets from any farm supply store. Cost me $16 each for a 50lb bag.


yeah I saw some of that stuff at the TSC last fall but they don't seem to have it on their site anymore. TSC is just a few doors down from where I work so its far more convenient than Home Hardware for me.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

MMoore said:


> ah yeah.
> 
> I will drop by the local HH but I doubt they will have it on the floor for some reason.


My local HH doesn't stock it, but it is quick to come in. My store gets deliveries from the warehouse every Wednesday, so as long as I order it by Monday night, I get it in 2 days.


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## W8INLINE (May 27, 2018)

Sorry guys, you are right, the 9-2-2 is from Home Hardware and no location to my knowledge has it in stock. I usually order 4 bags at a time and it takes a week to 10 days max to come in. TSC is where I bought the seed, urea, and some of their 16-16-16 fert I used last year


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## llO0DQLE (Dec 4, 2017)

W8INLINE said:


> I love the look of some KBG lawns a few members here have and would love to go that route, however there is no way I could do a reno on 35k sq ft, so I figured I'll take my chances and overseed with *** and hope for the best. I know I will always have old grass types` this way but it is what it is.


I don't get this line of thinking. You don't think you could reno 35K sf but you think you can overseed (which involves seeding and watering)the same area? Or is it the prep work that is daunting to you?

Here's the thing. Like has been said, overseeding KBG will be disappointing, esp with turf that's as dense and established as yours. I would suggest a complete reno but do it in separate stages year by year with a small section at a time, maybe 5 - 10K at a time, or whatever is comfortable for you.


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## W8INLINE (May 27, 2018)

llO0DQLE said:


> I don't get this line of thinking. You don't think you could reno 35K sf but you think you can overseed (which involves seeding and watering)the same area? Or is it the prep work that is daunting to you?
> 
> Here's the thing. Like has been said, overseeding KBG will be disappointing, esp with turf that's as dense and established as yours. I would suggest a complete reno but do it in separate stages year by year with a small section at a time, maybe 5 - 10K at a time, or whatever is comfortable for you.


I think it has to do with the fear of the unknown. Reno is new territory for me. Never done it before and if feels overwhelming especially with a large area like this. On the other hand overseeding feels like an easier route since I have done it many many many times before at older homes of for friends yards.


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## Sinclair (Jul 25, 2017)

Since you have irrigation already installed, I say go for it!

edit: if you really want a KBG monostand. Your turf already looks great.


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## llO0DQLE (Dec 4, 2017)

W8INLINE said:


> I think it has to do with the fear of the unknown. Reno is new territory for me. Never done it before and if feels overwhelming especially with a large area like this. On the other hand overseeding feels like an easier route since I have done it many many many times before at older homes of for friends yards.


It's not much different than overseeding esp if you have Tenacity as you won't be battling many weeds. My first reno, I didn't have Tenacity until Day 60. Still worked well. Tenacity wiped out all the weeds that sprouted with the grass. How about doing 500 sq feet this year to get your feet wet and overcome your fear? Then you will have a sense of what to expect.


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## Kellybrown_87 (Jun 19, 2019)

Picked up two bags the two last bags in the HH warehouse of 25kg 9-2-2. Hopefully they get more. Also picked up a couple bags of 25kg urea for 19.99 from Ritchies in elmvale. Should I put down the 9-2-2 now and save urea for September or put down a combination of the two?


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Kellybrown_87 said:


> Picked up two bags the two last bags in the HH warehouse of 25kg 9-2-2. Hopefully they get more. Also picked up a couple bags of 25kg urea for 19.99 from Ritchies in elmvale. Should I put down the 9-2-2 now and save urea for September or put down a combination of the two?


How much and what fertilizer have you put down so far this season?


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## Kellybrown_87 (Jun 19, 2019)

I put down Scott's halts crabgrass preventer and lawn good. 2 bags each bag weighs 13.42 lbs 30-0-4. I put this down in Early May.


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## SNOWBOB11 (Aug 31, 2017)

Kellybrown_87 said:


> I put down Scott's halts crabgrass preventer and lawn good. 2 bags each bag weighs 13.42 lbs 30-0-4. I put this down in Early May.


Yeah, put down the HH stuff now and save the urea for late summer early fall.

Where did you get scotts with halts crabgrass preventer? I haven't seen that sold in years. Pick it up in the states? Or is it a old bag?


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

I'll chime in on reno vs overseed. If you've never done a reno, doing 50k sf the first time will present a much bigger challenge than an overseed. I would start with a smaller section to get the experience. The process is much more involved and takes a lot of planning ahead of time - nuking the existing grass, fallowing, nuking again, more fallowing, possibly a third nuke, top soil, seed, roll, peat moss, water, water, water.

If you are planning a reno, you should start killing off your existing grass in the next few weeks (assuming a seed down date mid-Aug).

If the HH fert is hard to come by - I have a bucket of it for anyone interested. Make me an offer. I can check this weekend, but I would guess I have 30-40lbs of it from last year. I lined a pail with a plastic bag, sealed the bag with a rubber twist tie and put a lid on it. Been sitting in my garage since last Summer. My garage is insulated and never dips below 50f in the dead of winter.

I ended up switching to a Milo-like fert from Brett Young this year.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread!


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## Kellybrown_87 (Jun 19, 2019)

I picked up the Scott's halts crabgrass preventer onsale from amazon.ca they just had some killex with 2,4-d on for 1L 29.99. I think it's up to 40. Free shipping with prime at my house in two days.


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## MMoore (Aug 8, 2018)

Just called my local HH and ordered a bag of the 9-2-2. will see if they call me back to say its out of stock but they didn't sound like they had any reason to think it was out of stock.


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## cfinden (Aug 7, 2018)

@Kellybrown_87 Can you share a link for the Halts crabgrass prevent and the Killex? I haven't seen any useful lawn products on Amazon.ca for a decent price. Thanks.


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## Laramee (Apr 21, 2019)

@cfinden

https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4025&hilit=Canadian

Some pretty useful links in this post


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## Kellybrown_87 (Jun 19, 2019)

@cfinden

https://www.amazon.ca/ORTHO-KILLEX-Lawn-Killer-Concentrate/dp/B00LM9AWU6/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=killex&qid=1561229895&s=gateway&sr=8-1

It was 26.66 June 10, 2019. Price has been climbing and should drop again. Keep an eye out. I look for Scott's halts and could find it. I ordered it awhile back. They may have removed it.


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## Harts (May 14, 2018)

Killex is also available at www.lawnproducts.ca.


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## W8INLINE (May 27, 2018)

So I woke up to this in the morning. :shock: I had a few sink holes in the middle of the back yard so I told the city to come and fix them since they have been there for the past 4 years...about a year since I moved in. They show up today and they dig about 500sq ft. Maybe I could use this oportunity to start a reno once they fill it?

I guess this land was a landfill before....the boulders they were pulling out were huge









Seeing dumptrucks carving my grass made me throw up a bit in my mouth.

Too bad they were not digging about 50 feet closer to the house, the wife would have got the pool she always wanted


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