# SEKBrian's Lawn Journal (Bluegrass In Kansas)



## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

A little background info on where I started:

I am located in South East Kansas with your typical transition zone weather. In 2017 I purchased my first house and did a full renovation in the fall with a 90/10 TTTF/KBG mix. I was under the impression at the time (based on a little research I did on the internet) that bluegrass would not survive in the transition zone due to extremely hot summers, but it was recommended to me by the business I purchased my seed from.

That fall the grass came in great and and in the spring of 2018 looked even better. Easy peasy.

So that summer rolls around and my yard gets absolutely scorched. My yard gets some shade in the early morning until about noon and then is full sun until about 7 pm. I have in ground irrigation and couldn't believe the 30 minutes of water I was putting down per week in 100 degree heat wasn't keeping things alive. Needless to say things didn't recover great in the fall. I blamed it on the bluegrass being weak of course. I did end up doing a weak over seeding the fall of 2018 using the same mix. I also discover that I'm not putting out anywhere near enough water after doing a catch cup test of my irrigation. Grass comes in great again. Things are looking pretty good

So the same thing happens again the summer of 2019. Although I didn't lose near as much as years prior, I still lost large areas of grass, but that summer was so wet that I only had to run my sprinklers a few times. I decided I lost grass this time due to disease and that once again, the bluegrass was the culprit. So fall of 2019 I overseed with 100% TTTF to combat disease, drought and become bullet proof. I also decide to get serious about fungicides.

This brings me to this summer. I spray fungicides early, get my watering dialed in and still lose grass. Not eve close to the amount of grass as years prior. But its still extremely irritating. So I look closer at my yard and what do I see? Blue grass. Everywhere. The tall fescue is getting hammered by disease and the bluegrass is the only thing that's staying mostly green. I decide to save my money and stop applying fungicides but keep irrigating. Whatever survives is bonus and I will do another overseed this fall.

After TONS of research I find out bluegrass isn't quite as weak as I thought and that many people in the transition zone grow it. After a bunch more research I decide I will useTurf Blue Pro bluegrass mix from Barenbrug. I considered HGT but wanted better color. I was also mostly interested in the barserati cultivar since it scored very well in the NTEP trials at K-state. Some peoples heads may explode when they see that I plan to overseed bluegrass :shock: in the transition zone  

Here are pics of the yard earlier this week. You can see it looks decent enough where the trees shade it and gets thin in the middle where it gets pounded with sun.











Had to include the "domination line" of my yard vs my neighbors. This is actually a little embarrassing because they don't do a single thing to their yard and I'm out there constantly doing stuff to mine. It should look 10x more defined than it does.

Here is timeline of things I have done this week

8/26
Sprayed PGR @ .75oz/m

8/28
Verticut/dethatched my yard.
Scalped grass down to an inch and bagged all the clippings









8/29
Core aerated 2 different directions
Seeded Turf Blue Pro @ 2lbs/m and even a little heavier in the middle of the yard where it was extremely thin. 
Top dressed entire yard with peat moss.
Water


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## weed_wizard (Apr 18, 2019)

Excited to see your progress. Good luck!


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Good luck! Also I could be wrong but i think the baserati cultivator was also in the HGT blend. I cant find the email from last year but I think it was in both blends


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@ksturfguy I think older batches may have but I was checking out @Captquin's bag Of HGT from this year and it didn't have it. I didn't want to take the risk.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Yeah I'm not 100% sure if it had it in last year or not, thought it did but I was more after the Barvette HGT anyways. I think either blend would produce a nice lawn in the transition zone.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

I was worried that the barvette was going to be more lime green but after talking to captquin a little more he seemed to think it was more than acceptable. Don't get me wrong, I want a great deep green lawn but honestly after the last few years I just want something that can stand up to disease and can repair itself and I'm willing to sacrifice slightly on color to do that. Hopefully the barserati gives me the best of both worlds. Hell I can overseed next year with HGT if I need to.


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

Subscribed.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

SEKBrian said:


> This brings me to this summer. I spray fungicides early, get my watering dialed in and still lose grass. Not eve close to the amount of grass as years prior. But its still extremely irritating. So I look closer at my yard and what do I see? Blue grass. Everywhere. The tall fescue is getting hammered by disease and the bluegrass is the only thing that's staying mostly green. I decide to save my money and stop applying fungicides but keep irrigating. Whatever survives is bonus and I will do another overseed this fall.


I had this almost exact same experience. I had been overseeding with high quality TTTF the last couple of years and getting decimated by fungus. This year was really bad and EARLY. I installed swingset for my kids stuck at home due to covid and of course I lost some grass patches under the swing. They went brown due to fungus from all appearances. I was bummed but then within a few weeks the KBG I had been neglecting in my yard filled in the patches and now that they are only KBG, they are holding strong.

I started inspecting my yard all around and all the areas that were more green had more KBG. Even my north side shade spots that only see sun for maybe 2 months a year were almost exclusively KBG.

This is what lead me to do my 100% KBG test patch that you posted in today. If it goes well and I like it through next summer I will reno my whole front yard to 100% KBG next summer.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

I was completely shocked. I should have looked closer last year to see what was actually left in my yard. You can see in my pictures that under both trees, my yard is green. Its shaggy in these pictures because I wanted it long for the PGR. But its so shaggy because the blue grass was growing prolifically.

You can also see near my sidewalk where it's extremely patchy. This area was probably 80% decimated last year and I overseeded this area pretty heavily in the fall of 2019 with 100% TTTF. Most of the green in the pic now is KBG. The TTTF got smoked again.

I also have a side yard on the other side of my driveway that has held up very well from my 2017 renovation (90/10 TTTF/KBG) It's mostly watered in the evenings and doesn't get nearly enough but it looks pretty good and never has near the disease issues I have in the front yard. I'm going to start pushing nitrogen next week to it to see how well the KBG will fill in over there. I will post pics sometime later this week.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Today is day 5 after seed down. This whole week has been overcast, warm and we have got about 1.3 inches of rain. Its been almost ideal. No extreme washouts but we got a about an inch yesterday a little quicker than I really would have liked. Apparently it didn't matter because I woke up today and saw this.









I actually found this yesterday evening. It had germinated in a clump of peat that was slightly suspended above the dirt. I wasn't 100% sure it was bluegrass but I think its safe to say it was.



With the weather being so humid, wet, and overcast (I have only had to run my sprinklers 3 times) disease pressure is very high. I walked out in the yard this morning looking for sprouts and saw some mycelium. Nothing major but it was there. I was going to go ahead and put down some propi maybe tonight when things dry out a little. Its supposed to jump up to almost 90 this afternoon. Would that be a good idea? Or am I just being paranoid?


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

congrats on the grass babies.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Went ahead and dropped propi at the curative rate for some cheap insurance.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

It's been 2 weeks since seed down and about 8 DAG. Yard is starting to green back up with all the rain we have had. We have clearly gotten some heavy downpours because some of the new seedlings have been laid over. Supposed to be sunny the next week so hopefully they will stand back up and haven't been too damaged. Still getting good control of my old grass from the PGR, which has allowed good germination throughout the yard. The big bare patch in the middle is starting to get a green haze. Still a long ways to go.









The pic below is a spot that I had to level and was completely bare. Coming in pretty well. A lot of the new seedlings in the yard have started tillering in the last day or so.



Here are pictures of the side yard on the otherside side of my driveway. Overall looks pretty good. It's mostly bluegrass. I mowed it today and dropped .5lb/m of urea and watered it all in. Looking forward to see how this fills in with an aggressive fertilizer regimen this fall. Kicking around dropping .5lb/m urea a week. Not sure if I will have the time to do it that frequently.








The last image is where it gets hammered with sun between the trees and went dormant. Starting to come back with the cooler/wet weather. I have to hand water this entire area as my irrigation doesn't go under my driveway. Needless to say it doesn't get nearly what it needs.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

I should also add that I did not overseeed the side yard and will only be pushing nitrogen to it this fall.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

Progress is always nice. My seedlings that fell over a few weeks ago stood up fine but the ones that were in new dirt probably wouldn't have because the root and dirt stuck to the root became dislodged too. I didn't see any way they could stand up with no vertically oriented root anymore so I reseeded those spots.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Interesting. I feel like the areas that got leveled with new dirt is where the seedlings did the best. The areas I was looking at must have been where water was running off. Looked at the areas again yesterday after a nice sunny day and they were starting to raise back up. There is still new seedlings popping up in some areas and this week is supposed to be great weather wise so things should start really looking nice.

I have a question for you or anyone reading that has any good input: when are you going to start dropping fertilizer down on your new seeds? and what type? I was going to wait until Oct 1 and start spoonfeeding .25lb/m urea weekly, but I'm as impatient as it gets and want to do it sooner of course. I also have a bag of carbon x I could use for whatever. I think you are 2 weeks ahead of me in your test patch so I wanted to ask.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

SEKBrian said:


> I have a question for you or anyone reading that has any good input: when are you going to start dropping fertilizer down on your new seeds? and what type? I was going to wait until Oct 1 and start spoonfeeding .25lb/m urea weekly, but I'm as impatient as it gets and want to do it sooner of course. I also have a bag of carbon x I could use for whatever. I think you are 2 weeks ahead of me in your test patch so I wanted to ask.


I'm not the expert or as hardcore as most of the guys on here. I put down some starter fertilizer at the beginning of Sept just before I got my first washout (the day before actually). The seedlings had shown up most areas so I thought it might be helpful at that point. Yesterday, I also put down some biosolid fertilizer (milorganite similar) To supplement until I put down another round of starter fertilizer first week of october.

I have no idea how to use urea or if that is safe for grass babies. I'm playing it super safe.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Well I wouldn't have a problem with throwing down starter fert but on my soil test last year, my phosphorus was extremely high so I don't exactly want to add to it. I might have to make a post and ask the forum what they think if no one else chimes in here.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

SEKBrian said:


> Well I wouldn't have a problem with throwing down starter fert but on my soil test last year, my phosphorus was extremely high so I don't exactly want to add to it. I might have to make a post and ask the forum what they think if no one else chimes in here.


I think that would be a good idea. My starter fert is only 16-2-2 so it doesn't add a whole lot more than just nitrogen and iron.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

badtlc said:


> SEKBrian said:
> 
> 
> > Well I wouldn't have a problem with throwing down starter fert but on my soil test last year, my phosphorus was extremely high so I don't exactly want to add to it. I might have to make a post and ask the forum what they think if no one else chimes in here.
> ...


IDK if I would even consider that starter fert unless by starter fert you just mean a fertilizer you apply on need seed. Most starter fert is going to be high in P. The higher levels of P help the young grass develop it's root system.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

@SEKBrian I think you are good to apply your starter fert anytime after a week or 2 of applying the seed. The main reason most people don't apply fert at the same time they seed is to prevent top growth on the existing grass. Really about the 2 week mark your new grass should be fairly close to the same height as your existing grass and I think your good to go on fert.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@ksturfguyAfter scouring the forum today at work, I have ruled against applying a real starter fert that is high in phosphorus. My phos was extremely high according the the k state soil sample I did last spring and I don't want to add to it.

When I got home from work today, it was evident that my PGR is starting to wear off and that the old grass is starting to grow again. I'm confident I will need to mow in the next week or week and a half to keep the old grass at bay. My plan was to start spoon feeding the urea maybe after I had mowed it twice. I am going to disolve .25lb/m into water and spray it for a foliar app. Do you see any problems with this plan? I just don't want to burn my new seedlings.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

I think you should be good with that but definitely water it in. .25 seems to be on the high end as far what most people are comfortable with. I did .25 of N this spring on my KBG and had no issues with burning but that grass was 6 months old as well.

The great thing about growing grass is it's not an exact science and you can do what works best for you (within reason obviously lol). I did my first app of fert 1 week after seed down. Was it the best time? IDK and I dont really care, I knew we were getting a few straight days of light rain and cooler weather so I knew it would be a good time to get the fert watered in.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

SEKBrian said:


> @ksturfguyAfter scouring the forum today at work, I have ruled against applying a real starter fert that is high in phosphorus. My phos was extremely high according the the k state soil sample I did last spring and I don't want to add to it.
> 
> When I got home from work today, it was evident that my PGR is starting to wear off and that the old grass is starting to grow again. I'm confident I will need to mow in the next week or week and a half to keep the old grass at bay. My plan was to start spoon feeding the urea maybe after I had mowed it twice. I am going to disolve .25lb/m into water and spray it for a foliar app. Do you see any problems with this plan? I just don't want to burn my new seedlings.


If you are mulching when you mow, you are also adding a bunch of P back into the soil, too. Sounds like trying to go easy with the P might be a good idea.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Yeah. I guess I'm sitting here saying I'm trying to keep those levels in check but I don't even know what I'll effects high phosphorus have so maybe it doesn't matter either way lol.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

I have been doing more research on KBG and I stumbled across the Barenbrug site. Their KBG mixes do look VERY attractive. Where did you get your Barnbrug from?


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Todd Valley Farms. The seed itself isn't a bad price but shipping burns you. Having second thoughts on what you chose?


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

SEKBrian said:


> Todd Valley Farms. The seed itself isn't a bad price but shipping burns you. Having second thoughts on what you chose?


I haven't made any choices on what to use next year other than I think I'm comfortable enough to go 100% KBG.

My local provider Grass Pad doesnt specifically buy cultivars. So if I decide to use their Blue Wave (what I'm using now) I know that I'll get quality weed free seed and at least 3 different varieties of cultivars but I won't know what until I go see the tag on the bag/barrel. I think the cultivars change with every new shipment from Oregon.

I like the idea of Barenbrug knowing exactly what I'm getting.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

I know I called up to Grass Pad to see what was in their blue wave mix back in June (I called Olathe I believe) and the only cultivar that was the same in your mix, and what they told me, was shamrock I believe. So they must change frequently. When I called they said it contained Diva, Shamrock, Jackpot, and Rock-It. The guy told me that they use the universities info to guide what goes into the mix and he said it does change sometimes. I assume he as talking about K-state's info also

From what I could find, Diva was the only cultivar that did semi decent in the NTEP trials at K-state. I think I saw jackpot or shamrock near the bottom. Its been a while since I have looked, but none of the cultivars seemed like top performers really. I'm by no means an expert on reading that stuff tho. Maybe some of the other cultivars were tested in different years and did fine? Maybe there isn't a whole lot of difference between the middle of the pack and the top performers? Maybe I wasn't looking in the right places for my info either? There's a lot I don't know. But I do recall the barseratti doing very well at K-State. So I was willing to pay for it.

Pretty tough to argue with the results @ksturfguy is seeing with his Mazama also. It looks awesome. I was also kicking around overseeing with it.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

I just found out Barnbrug sells seeds direct on Amazon too and the pricing seems reasonable with free shipping. I think I'm sold.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Week 3 since seed down. 17 DAG. First mow was today! I sharpened blades and bagged all the clippings.

I put down Carbon X at 3lb/M on 9/18. I think it says thats .72N/m on the bag.

I have backed my water off to about 15 minutes every other day. Sooner if its looking dry.

I also threw some seed down in areas that looked thinner. Probably didn't need to but the spots with old dead grass look thin even though there are sprouts in them.

I'm pleased oveall with how its progressing!


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

Have you had any issues with weeds yet? I got info on the Barenbrug seed and the labels say there is 0.01% weed seed. That could be a lot of weeds with KBG seeds.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Yes there are some weeds. I'm not as anal as some people might be about it(at this point in the process) and it could have easily came from anywhere since it seems to be more around the edges of my yard. Obviously I don't like it but its really not too bad. I can deal with it later on. I forgot to add that this HOC is at 2". That's where I will maintain it the rest of the season.


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

@SEKBrian Looking good!!



badtlc said:


> Have you had any issues with weeds yet? I got info on the Barenbrug seed and the labels say there is 0.01% weed seed. That could be a lot of weeds with KBG seeds.


Interesting. I've ordered Barenbrug twice now with no weeds in either. Ordered from Stout Seed. Label pics in my lawn journal if interested.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Mowed last night for the 2nd time. I'm ready to get this spoon feeding kicked off and plan to start next week. Tried to take a few pics without the shadows but my house faces East so it's hard to not have the sun glaring in the evenings. 








You can see the weeds along the edge of the driveway. My bag of seed is long gone but my dad had me order some for his reseed this year and he sent me a pic of his label. No weed seeds according to it and the more I think about it I'm positive mine had none as well. Hopefully this clears things up for you @badtlc


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

Thanks! I found some other labels online showing no weed seed. I guess the local distributor just had an odd batch.

I think I'm going with the Turf Blue Pro also like you. The Turf Blue says it is medium blade and the Turf Blue Pro says it is medium-fine. I definitely prefer more thin bladed looks.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Yeah I was mostly after the better color because I feel like whats already in my yard is pretty dark green. Have you checked out the SPF-30 hybrid bluegrass? It doesn't seem like your typical hybrid blue grass. Guys down in Texas seem to be liking it from what I'm seeing around here. Seems very interesting.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

SEKBrian said:


> Yeah I was mostly after the better color because I feel like whats already in my yard is pretty dark green. Have you checked out the SPF-30 hybrid bluegrass? It doesn't seem like your typical hybrid blue grass. Guys down in Texas seem to be liking it from what I'm seeing around here. Seems very interesting.


I think I have seen some warnings to stay away from SPF-30 but I don't remember what issues specifically were.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

I mowed last night for the 4th time. Nothing new to report overall really . New grass looks lime green. I am going to start spoon feeding the urea this weekend at .25Nlb/m melted down into water and sprayed. Since there's so much new grass I will be watering it in immediately to not burn the new grass. Not really that worried but playing it safe. Hopefully that will kick things into over drive and get the old and new bluegrass to spread and fill in some weaker spots. I also got some triclopyr to treat oxalis that is popping up all over the place as well as some other broadleaf crap. I'd like to mow a couple more times just to be safe before applying that.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Oh also PSA: If you have a Tractor Supply in your area I would check and see if their Scotts Disease Ex is on clearance. I picked up 4 bags today for 2.19 a piece! I picked it up for 11 dollars a bag on an amazon deal ealier this year and thought I was stealing it.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

5th mow tonight . Weeds are about to drive me crazy so I will be dealing with them soon but of course temps are going to be mid to upper 80's all week so I may have to hold off. It's been incredibly dry as well.

I sprayed urea with 1oz of ferrous sulfate mixed in on Saturday. Not sure if you can over do iron on new grass but I didn't want to turn anything black so I went light on that. It turned the old grass a nice dark green so the difference between the new grass and old grass is even more noticeable now. Yard is starting to stripe a little better now too.

Definitely jealous of some of the guys on here and their TTTF overseeds/reno's looking like mature lawns at this point.


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

@SEKBrian I hear you man, but this is one reason why a journal is so important. Go back and look at your "before" pics. Looks great my friend.

What is your fertilization schedule?


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

I am applying urea @ .25N/m weekly


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Well it's been so windy lately that as soon as I mow, leaves just pile back up so these definitely wouldn't be considered glamour shots. I spot treated clover and other broadleaf weeds on 10/16 with weed b gon CCO. Other than that I'm just mowing and pumping the nitrogen to it. Today will be the 3rd round of urea for me. Fingers crossed I can get 3 or 4 more apps in before we really start winding down . It has also been excessively dry. Feel like I'm watering similar to summer. We are supposed to get some rain this week thankfully. Yard needs some actual rain.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

SEKBrian said:


> Feel like I'm watering similar to summer.


Ha! I posted this exact same thought in my thread. Ground just can't get enough water and fighting the nitrogen burn is getting old.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Yeah its terrible. You can see some of the spots drying out in that last pic. Rain is in the forecast for us this week but I'm a little further south than you are. It's also supposed to drop to freezing some nights which isn't what I wanted either.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Another weekend, another .25 pounds of N and another mow. Decided to bust out the 33in mower for this one. It stripes pretty well compared to my 21in. HOC is 2 inches. Really excited for next spring. Hopefully the new blue grass starts getting that deep green color. Supposed to get some rain and maybe snow this week but then it's supposed to bounce back into the mid 60's next week so they say. I'll keep feeding nitrogen until it's consistently cold.

I also got bored and turned my Stihl straight shaft weed eater into a Kombi system. Best decision I've ever made. Got the hedge trimmer attachment used from a guy I know and used my old weed eater gear box and stuck it on a lower shaft and was in business. Looking to add the pole pruner soon. Got to put both attatchments to use today.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Spot treated clover again on 10/29. Used a surfactant this time to see if I could get a little better kill this time.


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

Clover is supposed to be easy to kill. I have a patch of it, and it's been pretty resilient for me as well. Let me know if you find something that works well. I was using the Bayer Bioadvanced product mixed with a little Dawn to help. Seemed to work a little, but clover is still there for sure. Also have a little of what I think is creeping Charlie, which seems to have taken zero damage.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

Captquin said:


> Clover is supposed to be easy to kill. I have a patch of it, and it's been pretty resilient for me as well. Let me know if you find something that works well. I was using the Bayer Bioadvanced product mixed with a little Dawn to help. Seemed to work a little, but clover is still there for sure. Also have a little of what I think is creeping Charlie, which seems to have taken zero damage.


I use Speedzone on clover and it works great. Clover is usually gone within a couple days and doesn't come back.


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

@badtlc That's good to know. I've never used a surfactant. Do you, and if so, which flavor. Thanks again.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@badtlc I'd also like to know what you use for surfactant. I just used some baby shampoo since I have it handy now days. Do you use speedzone for everything or just clover? It's a little pricy.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

@SEKBrian & @Captquin

I use a non-ionic surfectant. I only mix small amounts at a time as I only spot spray. Speedzone lasts forever for me as I only do about 32oz at a time in a pistol-grip hand spray bottle. One 32oz batch will last me well over 2 years. So one bottle should last me a few decades, ha! I checked that it doesn't go bad while sitting on the shelf. just shake well.


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

Right on. I picked up some fert at Site One today. They only had it in gallons. Even with the corp discount it was $70 and I thought I'd never use it all. Glad I passed. Thanks again.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Oh shoot I assumed it had the same usage rate as the weed b gon cco. 1 oz of it only treats 200 sqft. 1 ounce of speed zone treats 1000. That makes more sense now! I think I will order some. Thanks for the info. the CCO is definitely not working as well as I'd hoped it would!


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Mulched some leaves and mowed this afternoon. Weather has been great lately. Very warm for November. 10 day forecast says highs in the 60's every day so top growth should continue. Had to snap pictures quick because the wind is blowing leaves on as quick as I can mulch them.


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## Butter (Nov 14, 2017)

That color is something else! Good job!
This sure is a great fall we're having.
I don't know where you are in SE Kansas and you certainly don't have to say but I'm curious if KBG, or TTTF for that matter, goes completely winter dormant where you are?


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@Butter Thanks I appreciate it! I actually don't like how the photos make the color look. My phone seems to pick up the marbling a lot more than what it looks like in person. It's a deep green and its very obvious that I do something to my yard especially when looking at any of my neighbors. The weekly urea definitely helps but I mixed in some ferrous sulphate in last weeks tank so that's probably most of it lol.

I won't say where I am exactly, but there is a pretty famous coal shovel not too far away from where I live. That should give you an idea. The grass will go dormant eventually. We don't get near as much snow as they do up in KC but the temps get just as cold. Any other year I probably would have my sprinklers blown out by now.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Well folks here we are!

It's 82 days after seed down and and 77 days after germination and I think it's safe to say the season is pretty much done for me. I may get 1 or 2 more mows in if I'm lucky but mowed today and didn't take off very much.

The weather has been pretty unbelievable this fall for us. I mowed in a short sleeve shirt today. It's been pretty dry over all but has been unseasonably warm.

I dropped my final fertilizer app tonight. Decided to go with Carbon X at the bag rate. I didn't water it in since it's supposed to rain this weekend. I plan on blowing my sprinklers out tomorrow or Saturday. I hate winter....and can't freakin wait for next spring.

Decided to end my last picture dump with my favorite mow pattern: horizontal stripes. With the sun going down behind my house, it makes the color look awesome. HOC is still 2 inches. I plan on keeping it there as long as I possibly can. Hoping the shorter HOC will help things dry out next spring when it will undoubtedly pour rain.



















Here is a little before and after of a spot that I leveled when this all started. KBG did its job.


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Well things are getting ready to start up again around here. It finally quit raining today so I got out and picked up the yard and ran the mower with the bag over it to pick up some of the leaves and get things looking decent.

I'm actually happy with the color thus far. It definitely seems better than in the past. I was worried due to the extreme cold temps in Feb (truck read -18 one morning) that some of the new grass may not make it. I also got a new roof put on so figured I'd lose some grass there too, but things look good to me. 








Here's a pic of my soil test from Waypoint



Would have liked to have seen more green values but it is what it is. I knew my potassium was low because it was last year and I never knew how to address it exactly. This year I've located some SOP at a local farm store but they are out of stock currently. Should be in Thursday. For some reason Waypoint recommended applying it all in the fall but I really want to get some down before the summer heat and disease pressure hits so I'm going to apply 1lb/m monthly until I hit the recommended amount. It also says to add more lime so I will pick some of that up too. I'm not exactly sure how to improve things like Boron, Copper, or Manganese? I know sulfur will come up when I apply the SOP but any recommendations are welcome.

My fertilization plan for the spring will be a spoon feed approach with the urea I have but will probably wait until later this spring since I did an aggressive fall blitz. My total N for spring won't exceed 1lb/m. I really hope that will decrease my disease pressure when summer rolls around. It's a balancing act with feeding the new grass to get it established without forcing excessive top growth but I will be using T-Nex this year to help combat that as well.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Got a lot done this weekend in the yard. Started off Friday by spot spraying weeds with some Speedzone.

Saturday I got my irrigation system hooked back up. I only had to re aim one sprinkler so it didn't take me long to get that rolling. After that, I put down prodiamine at a 4 month rate. I also put some Preen down in my flower beds and watered everything in. This is my first time using pre emergents Of any kind so hopefully it works.

Today, I mowed with my 21in mower at 2 inches. I really like this HOC. I'm going to keep my grass low as long as I can. Maybe even all year but will probably go to 2.5 inches for summer.

After mowing I dropped SOP at 1#K and since we aren't supposed to get rain all week I watered it in also. Soil test recommended 4lbs/m so I'll drop it over the next 4 months.











I'm currently trying to convince my neighbor to let me cut down that stupid evergreen tree down by the street. It's right on the property line and neither one of us know who's side it's on. It's way over grown and it blocks the grass from morning sun, which I think will help with the moss issue in that area. I'm also going to cut the tree down on the side of my house. They both are way too big for where they are located.

As for the yard, the color really seems to be coming on fast.

When I removed the sprinkler valve cover to open the valve I found something I thought was kinda cool





Rhizomes from KBG. They were probably 8 inches long or so.


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## badtlc (Aug 22, 2019)

you really are gung ho! I try not to turn my sprinklers back on until mid May.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Yeah I don't plan on needing them until later in the year. I spray most of my stuff so I have to be able to wash things down the to the soil. I will especially need it when I start the spring nitrogen blitz so I can wash things off if mother nature doesn't pull through.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Another busy weekend in the yard. Started off Friday by removing the evergreen tree down the road. It is going to make a huge difference in the amount of morning sun my yard gets. Here's a pic from my security cameras the same time of morning showing the difference

Before


After


Here's a pic of my truck packed with all the crap that was down there. It's hiding the electrical boxes so I made a trip to Lowe's and got some azaleas to put there next weekend, just in time for The Masters!



So I spot sprayed Speedzone last weekend and really messed it up. This stuff is more potent than Weed B Gon that I'm used to. It didn't kill the grass but it sure hurt it. Next time I'll know I need to just give weeds a quick shot, not drench them. Because of the damage tho I'm going to hold off of the PGR so things can grow out.

I also started my spring nitrogen blitz by spraying urea at .25#N/m with 2 oz of FS/m. It's also been dry as a bone so I went ahead and irrigated a half inch of water the next morning instead of just washing things off. With all the traffic from the weekend, it needed it. I can already tell it's bouncing back from the Speedzone damage and the foot traffic. 










Damn those midday shadows!


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

Yard looks really good. Dense. Going to green up and be excellent.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Mowed tonight. Spot sprayed with Speedzone again Sunday. Just gave the weeds a light mist this time and didn't see any damage. Also dug a few areas of poa. 





I really hope the larger spots start to darken up more. They stick out still pretty good.

Also finished up the area down by the street with mulch and azaleas and bordering the whole thing with liriope. I also transplanted some spirea behind the electrical boxes from another part of my house. Ready for all the liriope at my house to green up. Looks like crap. I'll be sure to trim it back next fall also


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Mowed today. Then dropped SOP @ 1#K/m and sprayed .25#N/m.









I have noticed 2 lighter spots in the yard where I leveled with topsoil last year.



I threw down seed heavy and I think I overdid it. I had 2 other spots that I glypho'd some Bermuda that were light like these 2 areas so I thought maybe the Turf Blue Pro was light color green. Well the spots that I used round up are starting to blend in nicely with the rest of the yard, but the 2 places I used bagged soil never have darkened. Thought maybe the soil was lacking nutrients or something and that was causing the light green. Well I pulled the canopy back and there was an under layer of nasty dead grass. I raked these spots out and this is what I'm left with



Needless to say I think this grass came in way too thick and has been crowding itself out. I'm not overly worried because there's plenty of time for it to repair itself but It looked like some of the blades has some leaf spot lesions. Im guessing the soil never dries out because it's so dense. These are the only spots in the yard that I see lesions like that. Temps this week are supposed to get up into the 80's and it's supposed to rain so I think I may put down some disease ex preventatively just in case I am missing something widespread.


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

I feel your pain on the overcrowding. I have several spots from my fall reno just like that, lacking consistent color/yellowing. I am guilty of seeding pretty heavy myself and I think I am going to run the scarifier over it tomorrow and get some of the weaker grass out of the competition. Those spots that you raked out should bounce back in a few weeks.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Yeah I should have just let it be but I thought since I was over seeding that the odds were against me, so I went heavy. Really hoping I don't have problems anywhere else. Worried I may lose more once I stop spoon feeding the nitrogen but I guess we will find out.


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## MichaelGScott (Apr 27, 2021)

Nice lawn, looks way better without that dumb tree


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Grass is growing fast now. We have had some solid rains lately also. I hadn't mowed in 4 days and if I didn't break the 1/3 rule I would be surprised.








In all I'm right at a pound of nitrogen this spring so I think I will call it quits in my nitrogen blitz. I might do another app around Memorial Day or I may do a half dose of carbon x or something? If anyone has a suggestion I'm all ears.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Another mow today. I'm mowing every 3 days. Grass is easily the thickest it's ever been but the color seems off for some reason. It has been extremely cool and we have had plenty of rain so I figured color would be great but that's not the case. Maybe it just needs some sun.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Put down another preventative app of propi this weekend. Dollar spot model is predicting heavy pressure coming up this week. Also got my grub ex down. We finally got a couple days of sunshine and the color bounced back nicely. 










I followed the contour of my flower bed and put some waves in it for something different.

I said I was going to use PGR this year but decided against it. I want to get another year under my belt before I start with it to make sure I can manage disease pressure and heat/drought stress.

Overall I'm pleased with where things are at right now.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

It's been incredibly wet the last 10 days with hardly any sun and there is rain forecasted the rest of the week. Had to raise my mower to knock the grass down last night then dropped it down to 2" tonight and mowed. Went ahead and dropped 1#/k of potassium tonight.

Going to be crossing my fingers for no fungus. I may put down a contact fungicide preventatively also because it's going to be fungus city.









Here is an update on one of the places I had overcrowding problems. Bouncing back pretty well.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Yeah I already have brown patch in parts of my lawn.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@ksturfguy There's a small strip on the south side of my house that I don't care about and I threw down some of the old fescue seed I had left from 2 years ago when I overseeded the bluegrass in the fall and its getting absolutely hammered right now. I would be screwed if it was my whole yard. It's not just some big box store seed either. It was Jacklin Seed and got it from a place that supplies golf courses in KC. Whatever is in it is not disease resistant at all. Glad I moved away from it. Are you having problems in the areas you treated with fungicide or are they pretty clear?


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

@SEKBrian I definitely have some BP in areas I treated but its more widespread in areas I did not treat.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

I can't even remember the last time we have had a full entire day of sun. I'm not exaggerating either. We have had a few days of partial sun the last 2 weeks but no full days. We have had a ton of rainalso. My yard just has a bad general look to it. I'm not sure it's due to fungal problems or lack of sun but it's extremely irritating. 










I put down a curative app of Clearys 3336 since I was due to rotate and I had a partial bottle I needed to get rid of.

I don't have any large spots of brown or anything anywhere. It's just a general brown discoloration in the yard. I have some close ups of some blades. If anyone has an idea of what this is please let me know. Almost looks like grey leaf spot maybe?


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## Butter (Nov 14, 2017)

I know what you mean. A lot of rain and no sun.
My turf is has an anemic and unhealthy look. Like you said, bad general look. My TTTF has similar lesions on the blades. No pattern, just some everywhere. I don't think it's a big deal. Nothing some dryer weather and sun won't fix.


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## Vtx531 (Jul 1, 2019)

Trade you guys some sun for rain...!


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

I would gladly trade you right now. I know in 3 weeks we will be begging for rain!


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Finally got some sun on the grass and color is bouncing back. I also sprayed .25#N/k to get some life back into it. Night and day difference from a week ago in my opinion. I also noticed some frayed grass tips the last couple of mows. I keep my blades sharp but I went ahead and sharpened them again. My mower was running at 3k RPMs so I went ahead and bumped it up to 3300 and cut quality seems better so I bet that will help the color as well. 








I put a zig zag pattern in it this week. That will be the first and last time I do that lol. First of all it took forever. 2nd off, you can't even tell I did it.


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## Captquin (Aug 22, 2019)

I need to book a tee time. Looks great!


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Thank you I appreciate it! Sun and urea really helped it bounce back. I had a buddy asking to do some chipping practice on it not too long ago. Never laughed so hard in my life!


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

We ended up having some pretty intense storms yesterday evening. No tornado sirens, which surprised me but I did have a few limbs down. Used that as an excuse to buy the pole saw attachment for my Kombi unit. Wife was thrilled. Got about 2.5 inches of rain total. Came in about an hour I think.

Put down a preventative rate of azoxy along with my last dose of potassium. I didn't water it in. I'll wait for my sprinklers to run next. It's my understanding azoxy wont prevent dollar spot and could make it worse, which is a big concern for me. It does stop a lot of other things tho. I will probably use my contact fungicide in conjunction just to be safe.

Things are looking pretty good overall. I remember by this time last year I had already thrown in the towel and was trying to figure out if I even wanted to try to maintain a nice lawn in the future. Miles ahead of where I was a year ago.


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## Butter (Nov 14, 2017)

Looks great! Good thing you didn't give up!


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Man things change so fast. I'm kind of at a loss right now with what's going on. It's been hot as hell the last week and a half. I've been watering about 1.5 inches a week I would say which is right on track with ET totals for my area. 








Doesn't look bad from a distance. But there's a problem out towards the middle. Here some shots with just me holding my phone up








I'm not sure what is going on. This spot gets direct sun from about 1030 in the morning to 630 at night. I did a water audit in this spot to make sure it wasn't a dry spot and I was getting .5" per cycle. It happens in this same spot every year. I have been putting fungicides down like clockwork so I guess it's just heat stress. Not sure what will happen here as summer goes on. Not real happy.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Still looks great. Wouldn't stress too much


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

I appreciate it man. I'm just trying to keep up with that Mazama plot of yours!


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think I see the spot in previous images. I think you should rule out any soil/rocks issues. Use a long screwdriver or shovel and see if there is something 6in deep.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Even with adequate water, open areas that have little to no shade cover can suffer from heat stress. The areas under the tree canopy get a little relief, at least. On days you are home during the peak afternoon (~2 pm), try syringing that open area to give it some relief. The idea is to use a fine spray to cool the turf canopy with a lower amount of water, without flooding it, and allow the leaf blades to dry out during the afternoon, so it doesn't stay wet going into the evening, which would promote conditions favorable to fungus.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@g-man I forgot to mention last night that I did push a screw driver down. Near where the driveway and sidewalk meet is rocky. It gets a little more shade tho so I can deal with that. The spot out towards the middle tho a screwdriver goes in like butter. I will really poke around after work tonight and see if I can find anything else.

@Chris LI I have been syringing when I get home from work at about 4pm this whole last week. Not tons of water by any means. Just misting the leaves in this general area. I don't know how much syringing actually helps tho. Once the water is gone, the heat is still there. The areas under the trees look fine so I'm thinking this is a heat issue. But it happens year after year. Theres a pic of my house from google street view a few years before I moved in that looks similiar. I will try to find it.

I moved the HOC to 2.5" last night also, maybe that will help.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Here's the pic.This was taken in 2015 I think. I doubt the yard was highly maintained. But they did have a sprinkler system installed so you think they cared a little. Either way the pattern is similar.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

That photo does help to confirm ongoing heat issues, with the similar situation in the open areas. It sounds like you are pretty much doing the right things. Raising HOC definitely helps. Maybe go to the max setting on your mower for your next mow and keep it there. Humic acid and kelp have helped me. If you don't have them in your program, I would suggest it. If you do, maybe up the number of apps. I need to get some Hydretain down soon. I tried it last year, and I think it helped. (FYI-It's on sale at Yard Mastery). Have you tried it? Others use Aquatrols, which I heard is really good. However, it is expensive.

Also, what do you do with leaves in the fall? Mulching them with the aggressive N blitz can help boost organic matter over time to build the soil.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@Chris LI I do not use Humic or Kelp. Any suggestions on where to buy for the best price? I also don't use hydretain since I have sprinklers. You think it will still help even tho its gets a lot of water?

This last fall was the first time that I did NOT mulch my leaves into the grass. Every other year I have. The only thing I can tell for sure is that this spot seems to be getting better every year. Again, my grass this year is miles ahead of where it was in any of the previous years at this time. I'm sure its just going to take time and I am not patient.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

If you have the ability to spray HA and kelp, then Kelp4Less.com is probably your best bet. They sell powders that you mix with water. They are a best bang for your buck product, but take a little more time/effort to prepare. Most folks will mix it up in a 5 gallon pail with paint mixer attachment for their drill, with warm/hot water, the day before. I use their Extreme Blend that has both HA and kelp, with some other goodies. I don't have the time or patience to mix it the day before, so occasionally I will end up with clogs in my pump sprayer, and tolerate it. Since it's completely organic (sans the OMRI certification, which they clearly state would raise the price), I use it on my veggies, too. They have 2 for Tuesdays, so starting with a smaller order (1 lb.) is a good idea.

I also use N-Ext Products Rgs and Air-8 (and just bought Microgreene the other day). I was cautious at first and did homework a couple of years ago and started using them last year, which I know helped. They are microscreened (if that's a word)so no clogs. IMHO, they are a cost effective Prosumer/Professional product, with good documentation, and I'm seeing good results. The only drawback is initial investment, with either 4-1 gallon jug packages or 2-2.5 gallon packages. I went with the 2-2.5 gallon jugs of Rgs and Air-8. However, they are now offering some smaller 2-1 gallon packages and some single gallon offerings on specific products. I think Rgs is one of those 1 gallon only deals. I like them a lot.

Kelp is really effective as a foliar app (pump sprayer mist), and can be washed in, or applied as a soil app (i.e. hose-end sprayer).

If you are a granular only guy, there are options. Andersons offers Humic DG (Dispersable Granule) and variants with other components. Investment might seem a little high, but it's a high percentage of HA, compared to liquids.

If you have a turf supply near you that will sell to the public, there are various pro-only products available, both liquid and granular.

Also, search for Bestlawn Soil Conditioner (BLSC) and Kelp Help. You will find recipes on TLF and other sites.

Whatever you can do to to help the soil, will benefit the root growth. There are many products out there, I just named a couple. I have also used Simple Lawn Solutions Root Hume and 15-0-15, which has some HA and kelp in it (which I really like). I gave away the Root Hume and a little 15-0-15 to a guy at work today, for him to try. The Root Hume is not as refined as N-Ext Products, and clogged my sprayer, so I told him to use a hose-end sprayer. They also make Soil Hume (kelp and HA), but they were out of it last year in the gallon size, so I tried N-Ext Products.

There are plenty of products out there to try, so check out other options that I didn't mention.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Mowed tonight. Spot in the middle is getting worse.









Here's a time lapse from my security cameras. 
6/18

6/24


From what I can tell the area closest to the sidewalk has quite a few small rocks. Out towards the middle, the screw driver goes in no problem. I will just keep pushing water I suppose. I can only imagine what this is going to look like come August. Gonna be a long summer. Good news is it's supposed to pour rain in about 2 hours and we have rain chances every day next week.


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## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

Is it fungal or insects? Do the pull test for insects and examine blades for fungus.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@situman I'm not sure what is going on. I have pulled up blades in the area. It doesn't pull up like carpet like you would suspect grubs and I put down grub ex about a month ago now. I have put down fungicides on a 2 week rotation for almost 2 months now. I made sure to overlap coverage, used 3 different MOA's. I was also putting down propi/azoxy at the same time to make sure I was covering every disease I could. Then switched to Clearys. Used a contact fungicide a few times as well. I don't notice any leaf lesions. Done numerous water audits. Gave my grass a very light dose of Nitrogen Tuesday I beleive (.15#N/m via urea) and haven't noticed it getting better or worse. This has been an on going issue ever since I have moved into this house. Unless its some kind of root fungus or something I am stumped. We just got 3 inches of soaking rain last night. We will see if it bounces back at all.


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## situman (Nov 3, 2020)

Could just be POA dying then lol. Who knows at this point.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Alright tonight I nuked it and I'm going to start plugging bermuda! Just kidding. Even tho it's crossed my mind.

Weather has been better this last week with over 7" of rain. Supposed to get warmer over the next 10 days with some more rain chances. Things are hanging in there. Ive been checking the middle of the yard and nothing seems to be getting worse I guess. I can see some bluegrass spreading already into some of the areas that died so that's encouraging.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Looking good


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

More heat this week=more grass checking out. Put propi down tonight because apparently I like wasting money lol.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Mowed. Supposed to get another 1-2" of rain tonight. Grass is struggling.









Got a new toy yesterday. Can't wait to abuse this thing during the fall blitz this year. So far I really like it. The wand is a little flimsy. I've seen threads where you can build better ones but I don't do this for a living so I will deal with it. Got a TeeJet nozzle on the way also so we will see how that works.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Congrats on the new toy


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@ksturfguy Thanks man. I know you said you don't like spraying. Something like this might make it easier. A lot easier to focus on coverage when you aren't pumping the whole time.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

SEKBrian said:


> @ksturfguy Thanks man. I know you said you don't like spraying. Something like this might make it easier. A lot easier to focus on coverage when you aren't pumping the whole time.


I have a Chapin battery sprayer. It's OK but I just feel like I get uneven pressure. I think the biggest reason I'm not a fan is I have 20k sqft so have to a few refills and it's just time consuming. I will admit I sprayed the other night and instead of using 1 gal per 1k I used a 1/2 gal per so saved some time. If I had a bigger property I'd love to get a ride on sprayer lol


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Nothing too crazy going on. We ended up going 3" of rain after my last post so that helped quite a bit. Temps are going to be in the mid to upper 90's for the next 10 days so I will be pumping the water to it.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Not much has been going on lately. Had a lot of heat the last couple weeks and finally got a little over an inch of rain last night with cooler weather today. 10 day forecast doesn't look bad with temps in the mid 80's and a lot of rain chances.

I'm itching to start pushing nitrogen. I'm definitely not throwing any seed down this year. We will see how much this bluegrass can spread. 








I'm definitely not very pleased but this is way better than where I was this time last year. Another positive thing is I have only pulled 2 crabgrass plants this whole year so my pre emergent did a heck of a lot better than I thought it would. Since I'm not overseeding I'm going to do my fall app here soon to prevent poa next spring. We will see how it works.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Ok finally September and we finally don't have temps forecasted in the 90's for a few days so I went ahead and dropped .25N/m via urea yesterday. I spread it granular since we had rain in the forecast and ended up getting a little over an inch over night with more on the way today. I'm afraid as thin as my yard is I'm going to have to go aggressive with the nitrogen to get it to fill so I'm kicking around dropping .5#/N a week when the temps really cool off. Mowing doesn't bother me a bit. 







The last pic is by far the worst spot. There is quite a bit of fescue there but there is also quite a bit of small bluegrass plants scattered within. I'm not counting on it filling in this fall but I really don't know what to expect. I feel like this spot really needs seed but I want to see what the bluegrass will do.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Forgot to mention I have a plugger so if spots aren't doing what I want them to I can plug it.

I also don't think any of this was due to fungus. I think it was strictly heat.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Finally getting some cooler weather and some rain. Highs are going to be in the upper 70's the next few days. I've been dropping .25N/m weekly up to this point. Looking like things will cool down enough to where I can start dropping .5# a week from here on out so that's what I will do until top growth stops.











I can see exactly where the spots were that I killed with round up or leveled with top soil last fall. I couldn't stand looking at them last year I can't stand seeing them show back up so hopefully they fill in quick.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

Must be nice to get rain lol


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Oh dude you are't kidding. Needed it bad. Hopefully it keeps coming. I see some slim chances early next week but who knows what will change between now and then,


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Weather the last couple of weeks has been really nice. It's supposed to jump back up into the 90's tomorrow but then cool off next week again. Unlike other parts of Kansas, we have had a decent amount of rain so far this fall with good chances again next week.

I'm still going the aggressive route with the nitrogen and will continue the rest of fall.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Summer is what separates good from great in the transition zone. In my experience the two big factors that cause decline are not enough water and disease. If you know you have a recurring disease issue, then preventive applications of fungicide are the way to go. That will recover this fall. You probably don't need 0.5 lbs/k every week, but it won't hurt. It takes about 2 weeks or so for spoon feeding to really kick in, and irrigating to prevent stress will help a lot with spread.

I noticed your K is low on the soil test. Bumping that will help combat summer stress a bit. I would be inclined to leave the pH on the low side if you can as Summer Patch pressure will be less.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@bernstem I really made a big effort this year to keep up on the fungicides and the water. Religiously checked ET totals for my area as well as looking at the soil itself. If it was a disease issue, I'm not sure what I could have done different and I'm probably not the guy that's going to send a sample off to a lab to find out. My K was low on my soil test so I was making monthly apps until June,I think, when I put the recommended amount down for the year. I also planned to keep the PH where it was at as well.

I agree .5N is probably a little unnecessary. I could only get a 50Lb bag of urea where I'm at which will last me forever so I figured I would give it a shot this year to see what happened since I have plenty of it. I would be tickled if it all filled in this fall. It's kind of an experiment to see what the KBG is capable of when really pushed hard.

So I'm curious what your watering schedule might look like next year with a new stand of KBG? Especially if we get a couple straight weeks in the mid to upper 90's that usually happens in our part of the country?


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## Wile (Sep 17, 2020)

Got a new toy yesterday. Can't wait to abuse this thing during the fall blitz this year. So far I really like it. The wand is a little flimsy. I've seen threads where you can build better ones but I don't do this for a living so I will deal with it. Got a TeeJet nozzle on the way also so we will see how that works.


[/quote]

How are you liking it? I'm thinking about getting one since I have a lot out ryobi stuff.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

SEKBrian said:


> @bernstem I really made a big effort this year to keep up on the fungicides and the water. Religiously checked ET totals for my area as well as looking at the soil itself. If it was a disease issue, I'm not sure what I could have done different and I'm probably not the guy that's going to send a sample off to a lab to find out. My K was low on my soil test so I was making monthly apps until June,I think, when I put the recommended amount down for the year. I also planned to keep the PH where it was at as well.
> 
> I agree .5N is probably a little unnecessary. I could only get a 50Lb bag of urea where I'm at which will last me forever so I figured I would give it a shot this year to see what happened since I have plenty of it. I would be tickled if it all filled in this fall. It's kind of an experiment to see what the KBG is capable of when really pushed hard.
> 
> So I'm curious what your watering schedule might look like next year with a new stand of KBG? Especially if we get a couple straight weeks in the mid to upper 90's that usually happens in our part of the country?


I have a rachio controller and it waters based on Et values. Rough estimates of watering intervals are: 
95+, every 2 days. 
90-95, every 3 days, 
85-90, every 3-4 days, 
below 85, every 4-7 days.

It is currently set to water ~0.6 inches per cycle on established grass. I have been playing with the watering duration and will probably increase it to 0.8 inches per cycle next year on the established lawn. The renovation is getting watered more often and I am not using Et values yet. I'll move to Et values, set it for 3 inch root depth next year, and move it up or down depending on how the grass does. The back is set to 4 inch root depth. At 4 inches, my silt soil will hold ~0.75 inches of water.

That looks like it could be either not enough water or disease.
What was your fungicide regimen? 
Do you know what the fungus might have been and what grass type it primarily affected?
Have you done an irrigation audit to know the irrigation precipitation rate?


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@bernstem So I use the Orbirt B-hyve and it also uses ET totals and uses weather stations to gather info on when to water. It waters exactly as you described above regarding frequency and temps. It does a really good job. I did audits in the area multiple times and was getting half an inch per cycle. The orbit uses a soaking cycle so it does 2 separate .25in waterings 30 minutes apart for each cycle. I was putting down 1.5" in the hottest parts summer a week minumum I would say. Only thing I can think is maybe more frequent waterings could have helped. in 95-100 degree weather it may have to have just a little water almost every day.

As for fungicides, I started rotating propi and azoxy back in May I think. I would have to look back. I also had some clearys left over from the year before so I used that twice I think. I was worried about dollar spot so I was applying every 2 weeks and rotating them after 2 consecutive applications. When I was using azoxy I would also use a contact fungicide since azoxy can make DS worse. Applied all the way until August or so. It looks like mostly the bluegrass was affected. I have been plugging areas the last few days and soil in this area is just gritty. I don't know how else to describe it. I have found some small brown landscaping rocks mixed in also so I'm wondering if this used to be a flower bed or something in the past. There aren't tons of them but they may be mixed in all over.

@Wile The sprayer is very good for a homeowner. I really like it. The gallon marks on the side are almost laughably inaccurate. 1 gallon is at about the 1.5 gallon mark on the sprayer itself. The teejet was a nice upgrade but the tip it came with was perfectly acceptable. You will need to figure out what dial setting matches your walking speed. At full pressure, it will go thru a couple of gallons quick so I dial it back just a little. There are no marks on the dial to see what pressure you are at so it's just a guessing game. It also makes it difficult to remember what setting you were at the last time you used it because you have to turn the dial off to turn the pump off. There is no separate on/off switch. I should just mark my preferred setting with sharpie on the sprayer but its not a huge deal If you have batteries for the sprayer already just buy the tool itself. You will save vs buying the battery, charger, sprayer combo. I would say its a no brainer if you are already in the ryobi tool family to begin with. I have no regrets with it at all.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

That sounds like adequate water and a reasonable preventive regimen. The soil test doesn't show anything that would contribute to the lawn problems that I see. I would say spoon feed this fall to help recovery and keep a close eye on things next year. Pictures of problem areas when it happens will help diagnose the problem, but I'm at a loss from what I can see so far.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Weather is great right now. Supposed to get some rain tonight and tomorrow so I have nitrogen down and ready to go. Wal mart had moss ex for a dollar a bag so I grabbed a couple. I went ahead and threw some down just to really make the color pop.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

Great to see that it thickened up and darkened. That N drop should give it a nice pop for Halloween. What's your HOC?


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

HOC is 2 inches. It's recovering pretty well actually. Still a few spots that have a long ways to go but we still have some time. They were only calling for an inch of rain yesterday and we ended up with 3 so it may have washed out some of the nitrogen and iron that I dropped. Just part of the deal I suppose.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

I'm at 2" too, and I like it right now. I usually stay one notch up at a hair over 2.5", but I'm trying to get everything to spread with 2" HOC and mowing 2x per week. Maybe you should make another urea drop at half the rate, as insurance. A little extra N and water shouldn't 
hurt. We're nearing the end of the season, so getting it down is important.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Well I thought it was going to get chilly and shut things down but it never got as cold as they said. I'm still not sure it's got below freezing here yet. Maybe slightly. I still feel like the trees are pretty green still too. Yesterday it jumped up to almost 75 and it's going to be nice for the next week or so I may drop nitrogen one more time.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Fired the mower up one last time today for leaf cleanup and I ended up actually cutting some grass off especially in spots that get a lot of sun. Never mowed this late in the season before. Weather has been nice since my last update and is even supposed to get in the 70s again this week. 








It's hard to see with the sun angle and time of day but I actually got better recovery this fall than I was expecting. It's not entirely filled in but by next summer it's going to be there. I have absolutely no clue how much nitrogen I dropped this fall but it's easily twice as much as last year.

My fall app of pre emergent really held off the poa also. I don't see a single plant so I'm happy with that.

Overall I'm in better shape at this point than I thought I would be thanks to good moisture and an really nice temps this fall. Ready for winter to be over already!


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Finally time to kick things off again. Did a clean up mow and edge today. Yard still has a lot of thickening up to do down by the road and by the sidewalk to my front door but it will get there.


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## Butter (Nov 14, 2017)

That's good color to start the season!


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@Butter Appreciate it! it really woke up last week thanks to good weather and rain.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Weather has still been pretty cool really. Had a few warm days and some in the upper 80's but then we still have some days with highs only in the 50's. Lawn has definitely started thickening up






This is pic was taken March 20th


And this pic was taken tonight


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Was short on time so just one pic today but the grass has completely come alive. The bluegrass is a lot slower to wake up in the spring. I haven't applied any fert this year yet and will probably do that this week. It's really filled in here as of late thanks to some much needed moisture. There's also rain in the forecast all week so it'll be shaggy before I have another chance to mow.


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## weed_wizard (Apr 18, 2019)

Looks good!


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Got a mow in tonight. Temps got to the low 90's here today and has been near 90 all week. Insane. I planned on fertilizing this week but had to hold off due to temps. Temps are supposed to return closer to normal this weekend so I will drop some carbon x I have left over.









On another note, I finally finished up a little project I started earlier this spring. I decided I was going to fully restore my old John Deere 14SB mower. It turns 33 this November according to the serial # and I figured it deserved a little attention. I actually wanted to do this last fall but never got around to it because I thought it was going to be too much work and didn't want to screw it up. This spring I decided to grow a pair and just go for it.

I got new cables, wheels, deck decals, and new factory paint for the deck, new paint for the handlebars and a few other small pieces. I tore it all down, painted it. Last night I finally got it put back together. Tonight I took it out, turned the gas on, and it started on the first pull. It's far from professional but I thought it turned out pretty well.

Couple of before pics





And the finished product


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## Butter (Nov 14, 2017)

Cool project! Looks like its ready for another 33 years!


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## lbb091919 (Apr 26, 2020)

Yard is looking great and that JD looks brand new. Nice work on the deck repair too. Two 14SZs just popped up on FB for a steal, I'm considering picking up. Need another parts mower? haha


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@lbb091919 don't tempt me! My wife might kill me tho. If she never saw or heard me talk about these mowers ever again it would be too soon.

To my knowledge those only had the Briggs engines on them. I've never seen one in person. You could buy them both and flip one. Or keep them both because they are awesome. Every time one comes up for sale around me, it's gone pretty quick. Highly sought after mowers!


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Got a mow in tonight. We have had a lot of rain lately and the weather has been awesome so the yard was shaggy








HOC is 3" and that's where I will keep it for the summer.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Heat is finally here and it's the same old story for me. Grass was doing just fine when I left for vacation a week ago and when I got back it looked terrible. It needed mowed of course but I have grass everywhere dying and I have no less than a million oak saplings sprouting in my yard. Temps have been in the mid upper 90's and my irrigation ran while I was gone but my grass just can't hang. Every single year in mid June when the heat gets here things just check out. It's not dormancy either. I've seen this exact same pattern enough to know this grass is dead. It's unfortunate because I feel like the grass had recovered 97% from last summers damage and now I'm back to square 1.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

@SEKBrian You think it's because you have KBG or is it your HOC? I mean you don't reel mow but it looks fairly short? But then again with these temps if it's areas receiving a lot of sunlight its probably tough no matter what you do.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@ksturfguy I really don't know at this point. My HOC is 3" and I confirmed it with a tape measure. My mower only goes to 3.5 and I can't imagine that would be the difference between thriving and dying off. Seems like no matter how much water I give it, I just can't avoid it. A bag of seed every year would be much much cheaper than watering and I'm seriously just considering overseeding heavily every fall and just letting it go in the summer.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

ksturfguy said:


> @SEKBrian You think it's because you have KBG or is it your HOC? I mean you don't reel mow but it looks fairly short? But then again with these temps if it's areas receiving a lot of sunlight its probably tough no matter what you do.


^+1
I agree completely. I just went back through your journal and exactly a year ago (6/18/21), this same scenario seemed to occur. It seems like you have addressed some of the other issues, and it was doing better last year, and even better this year. Last year, your HOC was 2.5" at this time, and this year, it's 3", if I'm correct.

IMHO, you should have started at a higher HOC in the spring, and ramped up even more, by now. I'm located near the coast, so it takes longer to get to consistent high temperatures, but my lawn gets fried by late July-early August. For the 2-3 hottest weeks, I have topped out as high as 4". I think that's what you need to do. TTTF and TTTF mixed with kbg like higher HOCs. Higher HOC also helps develop deeper roots, which you need with the heat. It also helps to reduce soil surface temperatures (I'm 99% sure). More leaf tissue also helps retain water. I don't care for it to be that high (with flop over), but it has helped with survival. I don't recall my 14SB going that high, but I ran it on the highest setting. FYI-I love your restored 14SB and may have to pick your brain if I ever have a chance to fix mine up. I've put some work in on mine, but the drive engagement level assembly broke, so I parked it and left it as a future project. The quality of cut is second to none, and it bags and mulches equally well. I purchased an aftermarket mulching blade with teeth, like a Gator blade. I'll take a photo and try to find some info, if you are interested.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@Chris LI You are correct. I was cutting at 2.5 last year and I've been at 3 so far for the most part this year. The exact same thing happened in the exact same time frame 1 year ago. I also hate the high HOC but I suppose I will max it out. I have nothing to lose. The 14SB only goes to 3.5". I just don't understand how some of these guys reel mow on this forum and manage to survive summer. I know some live in milder climates but there are a few that do it in the transition zone and it absolutely blows my mind. I can't even get my grass to hang around the first week of hot weather lol.

I appreciate the kind words on the restoration. These mowers are incredibly easy to work on and I would be glad to help guide you with getting your mower moving again. I know way more about these mowers than I ever planned on knowing. I have kicked around getting a gator blade but I actually side discharge more than I mulch so I like the high lift blades it comes with. I have found that the cut quality is much higher at these higher HOC's when you side discharge and I mow often enough that I don't leave a bunch of clippings on the canopy.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

SEKBrian said:


> I just don't understand how some of these guys reel mow on this forum and manage to survive summer. I know some live in milder climates but there are a few that do it in the transition zone and it absolutely blows my mind. I can't even get my grass to hang around the first week of hot weather lol.


Besides the soil stimulants, I believe they can get the roots to dive deeper with PGR. I just started using it this year, with the first application, this past week. My turf had difficulty at 2-5/8" HOC last year, and I'm hoping the PGR helps with color, roots, and less times violating the 1/3 rule this year.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Seems like no matter how much water I give this yard it just absolutely does not respond. At this point I am going to go ahead and cut back on my irrigation schedule to save some money. I'm currently putting down atleast 1.5" a week and in the spots in the middle of my yard I even hand water some extra but nothing is making it better. Temps have been scorching and I'm tired of sweating my tail off putting in the extra effort.

I know it's a ways off but I do not want to look at a patchy yard all fall and winter like I did last year so my plan will be to overseed fescue so I can atleast feel like I have a yard this fall.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Have you check for bugs? Mainly sod webworm, billbugs or chinch bugs?

https://entomology.unl.edu/turfent/pestlist


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@g-man Just got back in from the test. Mixed up 4 gallons of water with a half cup of dawn and poured it in 4 areas. Saw a lot of spiders but that was mostly it.



Saw this thing but it doesn't look like anything in that list and I only saw 1 in all the areas I checked.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@SEKBrian That looks like a billbug.

https://entomology.unl.edu/turfent/documnts/billbugs.shtml

This is a GDD model for bluegrass billbug (there are more than one type of billbug)
https://gddtracker.msu.edu/?model=12&offset=0&zip=46037

Great info from Purdue, but maybe dated:
https://extension.entm.purdue.edu/publications/E-266/E-266.html

I would do an application of Imidacloprid now and make sure you do one or two early next year.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@g-man Oh wow! That's exactly what that is. I completely missed the billbug in that in the article you sent. The more I read, the more things are clicking. My damage always shows up mid June when it starts getting hot. Starts out as very small circles and they all gradually come together. I don't know how many times I have pulled up a bluegrass plant that was missing roots and thought the crown looked "sandy." Thought it was maybe just my soil and that the roots were gone because of the heat or fungus. But it's 100% billbug frass. Have you ever dealt with them before?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I think 17 years ago in my first home I had some. I also had just general grub damage from the japanese beetles. I have since always used a grub control product (eg. GrubEx) every year as a safety precaution.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@g-man I have grub ex on hand now. Would applying that now help while I get the imidacloprid in? I'm worried things are too far gone at this point.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

The worst of the damage is done. GrubEx wont do much right now. Imidacloprid might kill the adults and reduce the population laying eggs next year. They key is really next year to kill the eggs, so do the GrubEx right at green up. The product will get into the soil and some inside the roots/plant too (if I recall correctly). Do fall nitrogen to recover the damage.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

So I have done some digging in the yard the last few days. I have been HOPING to find an answer to my problems but I'm not confident I have. I've dug up probably 15 spots to see if I can find some billbug grubs or any other type of insect that may be causing problems. So far I have not seen a single billbug grub like I was hoping. These 2 "worms" are the only 2 grub like things I saw in all of my samples. 




I also found tons of ants. Almost every scoop had ants.

So @g-man, could the billbug grubs possibly still be so small that I'm missing them? Do those other 2 worms look like anything to be concerned about? They were literally the only 2 worms I saw. Or could ants be my problem?

Imidacloprid will be going down tonight after my son goes to bed regardless. I was really just hoping to find grubs in every scoop and have an obvious answer to my problems.

My soil is shitty also. So much clay. I actually broke my shovel on my last sample. It was by my sidewalk which is no surprise because I know it's rocky there. The frustration continues.


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## ksturfguy (Sep 25, 2018)

@SEKBrian Sorry your having these issues. It's that time of year where I also usually hate lawn care and get so frustrated by the issues. About a month and a half and we in Sept and I get rejuvenated again.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

So I know when I last posted I said I was going to just overseed fescue from here on but turns out I'm a liar. I started looking around at fescue online and although fescue may be slightly cheaper per pound, it requires twice as much or more to overseed as compared to bluegrass. I can't find any decent quality fescue around where I live so when you tack on shipping to 25lbs of seed, it gets expensive quick. Even driving up to KC to buy seed would cost me 30 bucks in gas.

So I start looking at the SPF 30 thread on here. I'm seeing guys in Texas and Oklahoma have some success. I start googling and see I can get 10 pounds for 60 bucks on Amazon with free shipping so I pulled the trigger.

My bluegrass overseed this year wasn't nearly involved as my first one. I didn't use any PGR or peat moss and I also didn't aerate. I was able to borrow a verticutter from a friend so I mowed down to 2", verticut 1 way, bagged up the debris dropped 2lb/k of seed and verticut it in. The simplicity of this all made it really enjoyable and my expectations aren't super high like 2 years ago so overall my stress level is low

I'll give it a couple of weeks to grow and then start in with the nitrogen.

Here are pics before I beat it up


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

I'm looking forward to seeing your project. I hope this will help overcome the issues you've been having with dieoff. I think the diversity of types an cultivars will be a strength, and really think your chances of a successful outcome are high. The hybrid bluegrass should tolerate the heat sufficiently and will help fill in with the N-blitz, once it reaches maturity. PGR and wetting agents really helped me this year and I highly suggest them. Anything to give you an edge for survival during the summer, is a great asset.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

@Chris LI Ive been kicking around using hydretain. We will see what happens next year. I'm still hesitant about the PGR. I have some on my shelf still but If I could just get one year where I felt confident coming out or summer then maybe I would go for it. Maybe next year will be the year. I'm not sure SPF 30 will be the answer to my problems either but nothing would make me happier than to be completely wrong!


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Week 3 after seed down. I had germination on day 7. My yard has recovered a ton since starting this process. All that extra water has gone a long ways. 







The grass seedlings are only about an inch tall so this recovery is mostly the old grass. Hard to believe that's the same yard from 3 weeks ago even.


This is a spot in front of a sprinkler I had to dig up and fix to give an idea of where the new seedlings are at. With all the extra water I have had to mow weekly and the little seeds don't mind a bit.

Weather has still been very warm. It was in the 90's when I overseeded and it's been near there since. We have had a few nice rainfalls finally but overall it's been hot and appears it will stay that way for atleast the next week. Probably a good thing since it'll give the seedlings a little more time to mature before I start pushing nitrogen. My trigger finger is getting itchy.


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## SEKBrian (Jul 20, 2020)

Things are progressing well. We haven’t got hardly any rain so I’ve had to keep watering a ton.


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## Chris LI (Oct 26, 2018)

It looks like you're compensating well with the trees stealing water from the lawn.


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