# Scalp or raise HOC?



## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

I started this season out by getting my first reel mower, a Cal Trimmer. Overall, I'm pretty satisfied with it, although if I could do it all over, I may go with a different mower. It is a solid machine and performs well, but is does have some limitations compared to professional greens mower without a doubt. One of those limitations is the HOC adjustments. For the average homeowner, which I realize is Cal Trimmer's target market, the HOC adjustments are easy and quick to make, but they leave what I would consider big gaps in height's.

So my dilemma is this: I started the season out with a 3/4" HOC. In early July I raised the HOC to 1" with plans to maintain it there for the rest of the season. (there are no height options on the mower between 3/4" and 1") So now, my lawn is in desperate need of verticutting; I'm starting to scalp areas more and more, large areas are 'spongy', and the mower seems to 'float' over the turf while cutting. The problem is, I don't have access to a verticutter, and renting one is not very practical considering the cost and distance I would have to go to pick it up and return it.

So my question is should I scalp the lawn? And if so, how aggressive should I be with the scalp? For reference, the height adjustments on the mower are 3/8", 5/8", 3/4", 1", and 3 more higher settings. I tried an area at 3/4" and it really didn't accomplish much. It didn't seem aggressive enough to adequately get into the thatch to make a difference. So I tried an area at 5/8". This 'seemed' to be maybe too aggressive. I guess my concerns are if I scalped at 5/8", is the lawn going to be screwed trying to recover for the rest of the season? Ideally, I would go with a height between 3/4" and 5/8" but that unfortunately is not an option with the Cal Trimmer.

Any insight you have into mid-season scalping and the recovery of the turf is appreciated.

Front at normal 1" HOC on 8.1




Test area scalped at 5/8" HOC on 8.1


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

With August and September still ahead, I think you would be fine with the scalp at 5/8" like you tested. Hit it with some fast release N and water and it should recover in 10-14 days (or maybe less).


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

Okay, thanks @Spammage


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

So scalping is just as good or good enough vs verticutting?
I too have some areas that the grass is too thick to the point where it collapses. I'll have to take a pic and post it


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

In my opinion if you are going to scalp it then scalp it. Dont baby around. Scalp it at the lowest setting. cut all the green off. Hit it with a heavy pound of ammonium sulfate and water it more . If you are having thatch issues and you dont have access to a dethatcher drop it down as low as it can go. Collect all the clippings.
Your neighbors will think your crazy until day 10-12. And then they will be like WTF!!!!

Oh yeah show us before during and after pictures.


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

@Tellycoleman that was my initial thoughts, guess I'm just being a chicken!


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

DSchlauch said:


> @Tellycoleman that was my initial thoughts, guess I'm just being a chicken!


No your not being a chicken I see your lawn is as big as mine. So im sure you dont want to deal with 30 bags of clippings. Its gonna be a job for sure.

You thought about using air8 or other chemical dethatchers?


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

@Tellycoleman

I treated with Air8 about 3 weeks ago @ 6oz/k. The thatch really isn't that bad, I think it is actually at a good healthy level, it's just that the turf is so thick. I realize that is a good thing, and as I said before, I would rather manage it with a good verticutting, but I'm working with what I have. And I'm betting 30 bags will get me about half way! The small area I scalped made 4 bags of clippings. I see you're right up the road in Nashville though, so it won't be as bad with 2 people. See you Saturday morning, lets say @ 7?


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

DSchlauch said:


> @Tellycoleman
> 
> I treated with Air8 about 3 weeks ago @ 6oz/k. The thatch really isn't that bad, I think it is actually at a good healthy level, it's just that the turf is so thick. I realize that is a good thing, and as I said before, I would rather manage it with a good verticutting, but I'm working with what I have. And I'm betting 30 bags will get me about half way! The small area I scalped made 4 bags of clippings. I see you're right up the road in Nashville though, so it won't be as bad with 2 people. See you Saturday morning, lets say @ 7?


lol lol Sure then next week we top-dress my yard with 22 tons of sand. lol lol I would take it in sections scalp some every week


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

@Tellycoleman , I cut my lawn at the second level which is about 1.5". The level below is 1" I believe and then there is no level but straight to the ground. Am I going to have a problem since I can't get any lower than my first notch??


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

Started on the back this morning. I guess if you're going to do something outside your comfort zone, just stand on the side, jump high in the air, grab your knees and yell 'cannonball' !! #imnervous On the bright side, my wife isn't too happy with me about it so I have that going for me .....


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

You'll be fine. I went through the same anxiety when I scalped mine down a month ago. I was at over 4" and took it down to 2.25" over a couple cuts. I should have gone lower but I was too damn scared. Got the same reaction from my wife as you are from yours. I fed it and we got some nice rains and it looks great now. By the time football season kicks off you will have a gorgeous lawn.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Yep some people scalp to the dirt. You will be fine with what your doing!!!
You should also be fine with a 1/2 inch scalp vs cutting height difference.

While your at it do a test section or strip ( Because I know your nervous) that you take down to the dirt and see how that looks when it greens up. If it does fine (which it will) then you can scalp that low next year and have your HOC on the 1st notch starting next season.
Nice pool!!


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Check out my results from a 1/2" HOC difference. I was at 0.75, and scalped at 0.5". I scalped last Saturday, and my yard is almost out of regulation from PGR, so it's REALLY about to start taking off unless I can spray it again SOON! I also needed encouragement from another member, and I'm glad I trusted them. It's all good! You got this. I just saw this post, there's so many new ones every day, I can't keep up with them. :lol:

Scalp post my next post is 6 days later.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

So going from 1.5" to 1" scalp should be good for me it sounds like. If I do it I need to do it this weekend because in 2 weeks I'll be out of town for a few days and need to take care of my baby. I should be good using 21-0-0 or 24-2-11 from SiteOne right? I certilkzed like 2 weeks ago but am not getting results. I have before PGR application(last pic) and after PGR pics which could have been slightly too much.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Wait did you hijack his thread lol lol lol I got confused for a second.
@Su@Suaverc118 dont scalp until your ready to go out of town. That way you wont have to worry about cutting it or looking at it and when you get back everything will be green. As far as fertilizer choice it depends on how much lawn you have? If you only have 3K of lawn i would go with a smaller 1st number so you can apply more product and get even coverage


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

@Tellycoleman , too late. I couldn't take looking at my lawn anymore, and I've just been annoyed every day I see it, so I scalped the mikifiki!! So you saw my other pictures, here is the after and I like it already


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

Finished taking the back yard from 1" down to 5/8" today. If you are reading this post thinking about scalping your own lawn, don't say you haven't been warned: it is A LOT of work! LOL 
Put down 1/2 lb N/k and poured the water to it. I plan to put 1/4 lb N/k each week for the next two weeks. What watering schedule should I follow? Similar to new seed/sod, keeping it moist, or heavy watering a couple times a week? Thanks again everyone @Spammage @Tellycoleman @TN Hawkeye @Colonel K0rn for the input, advice and encouragement.


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## Bermuda_Newbie (Jun 15, 2018)

Looks good! Scalping seems like such a counterintuative thing to do. It's a bit scary when your yard is green to start with but I'm sure it will look even better when it comes back in.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Took mine down to .500" from .625" which is a lot more than it seems. Lowering that bedknife .125" has the mower digging down at least another .375"

Took me 3 passes to get there too. So I've mowed 60k today with a 26" mower.

I'd post pics but I was too pooped to hold my phone up afterwards. My phone says I've walked 13.8 miles. 36000+ steps. I'd say that's conservative!


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## Bunnysarefat (May 4, 2017)

I scalped mine under a fresh PGR suppression. 7/8 down to .5. It was fine in 2 weeks.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

I would not water the lawn like new seed. Just increase the water if you want. If you usually put down 1 inch a week put down 1 1/2 or 2 inches. When i sacapled my lawn with my new mower 2 weeks ago i didnt even change the water schedule or put down fetilizer after 9 days i was fine. Dont overthink it
What kind of fertilizer did you use?
If its slow release then i would have put down 1 pound per 1000.


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Lately, I haven't had to bother with watering the lawn, since Mom Nature has seen fit to bestow many droplets of irritation unto my lot this past week. In all seriousness, I've been feeding at 0.25#N/M weekly, and it's been 2 weeks since I fed everything. I waited to see what was going to happen and following advice I was given, if I didn't see any greening up in 72 hours, I'd put some N on it. I didn't need to, and had a 95% green lawn 6 days later.

No doubt the rain helped hasten the green up, but I also just put down another app of PGR, so here's hoping it holds it down for a few weeks until we dry out.


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## Aarsudstrike (Jun 15, 2018)

Saturday I took the back from almost 4" down to about 1". Then I hit it with 1#/1k of N. 

The front is next as I'm getting a ton of brown when I mow.


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## Lawndude29 (Jun 26, 2018)

I scalped mine down a few notches on the caltrimmer. I had quite a bit of crabgrass which I hit with target 6+. It looked bad with the dead crabgrass so I figured it would be a good time to scalp. It was a TON of work lol. My wife and the neighbors think I'm crazy. Looking forward to the recovery :lol:


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## jonthepain (May 5, 2018)

I bet you can't wait to see their faces in a week or so when it looks like a million bucks


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## Jacob_S (May 22, 2018)

Currently trying to decide between scalp again or raise, ya'll aren't helping the argument to give in and raise.


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## Aarsudstrike (Jun 15, 2018)

Lawndude29 said:


> I scalped mine down a few notches on the caltrimmer. I had quite a bit of crabgrass which I hit with target 6+. It looked bad with the dead crabgrass so I figured it would be a good time to scalp. It was a TON of work lol. My wife and the neighbors think I'm crazy. Looking forward to the recovery :lol:


I know my wife and neighbors think I'm nuts but I have a plan. Between work and kids stuff I haven't had a ton of time so the height has gotten away from me. It will look great in a week.


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## Lawndude29 (Jun 26, 2018)

jonthepain said:


> I bet you can't wait to see their faces in a week or so when it looks like a million bucks


Haha yep I'm counting the days!


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## SC-Bermuda (Jul 16, 2018)

I had the same dilemma, scalp or raise the mower, buying my first reel this week helped with the decision. Go low!! I went from 2" to 7/8" with my new to me Mclane 25 and am surprised that it isn't as brown as I expected, the 1/2# of N should take care of the brown cast in a few days I hope. 
This la prima xd was planted June 3rd, Bermuda is some impressive grass no doubt about it(first experience with it).


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## Josh (Aug 8, 2018)

I'm in the same pickle as most. Raise HOC or scalp. This is tonight taking just a third of the blade off. I do not have a reel mower yet. I just dropped a dose of Milo last week, have had good rains last few days. Should I go up or down? If I go down what is your suggestion for bringing the N up?

Common Bermuda. First picture on the right side shows an empty lot. I've scalped that already as a test.


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## FlaDave (Jul 10, 2018)

Josh said:


> I'm in the same pickle as most. Raise HOC or scalp. This is tonight taking just a third of the blade off. I do not have a reel mower yet. I just dropped a dose of Milo last week, have had good rains last few days. Should I go up or down? If I go down what is your suggestion for bringing the N up?
> 
> Common Bermuda. First picture on the right side shows an empty lot. I've scalped that already as a test.


Scalp brings good results in my experience. Collect clippings when you do. Scalp as low as you can. 
How often are you willing to mow? What was your previous hoc and how low did you scalp that yard? You could spoon feed .25-.5lb/k weekly if you're mowing every 2-3 days. Just stay in the 1/3rd rule after scalp. Also I'm in central Florida, how much growing season you have left could be another factor for you.


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## Josh (Aug 8, 2018)

I am currently mowing right under 3". Empty lot test bed was at 2.5" and brought down to about 1.5" - 1.75" as its pretty rough.

We have a good growing season left, I am in Arkansas. I don't mind mowing every 3 days. I have a zero turn and a push rotary. I always prefer the zero turn, but don't mind pushing for the exercise.


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## dtillman5 (Jul 20, 2017)

Scalped mine to 0.5 less in some places. Hit with 1# N /k using a 24-0-10. Watered it in and got 1/4 in rain today. Wish I could go lower but I'm just not level enough yet. More sand is in my future  Now I need a landscape blade :lol:


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## Josh (Aug 8, 2018)

Well I jumped in both feet. Hit it with a heavy dose of Milo. Rain in the forecast later today and the next 2 days.

How long til I mow after a severe scalp?


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## Cjames1603 (Jul 25, 2018)

I did the same thing last Saturday. I am starting to see some greening but tons more weeds. I hit it with milo and am gonna msma tomorrow after church.


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## Aarsudstrike (Jun 15, 2018)

Aarsudstrike said:


> Saturday I took the back from almost 4" down to about 1". Then I hit it with 1#/1k of N.
> 
> The front is next as I'm getting a ton of brown when I mow.


Well here we are 7 days later on the back yard.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Josh said:


> Well I jumped in both feet. Hit it with a heavy dose of Milo. Rain in the forecast later today and the next 2 days.
> 
> How long til I mow after a severe scalp?


Just a word of advice on Milo. It is slow release. You may want to hit it with a quick release at a low rate to kick start it while the Milo takes hold.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

so to the original poster @DSchlauch How does everything look?


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## Necrosis (Jul 12, 2018)

Jumped on the scalp wagon earlier in June. Still waiting for the lawn to green back up


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## anthonybilotta (Aug 11, 2018)

Necrosis said:


> Jumped on the scalp wagon earlier in June. Still waiting for the lawn to green back up


How low did you scalp it ? After 2 months, are all those brown patches dead ?


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

Tellycoleman said:


> so to the original poster @DSchlauch How does everything look?


It's greening up pretty good, probably 50-60% right now. I'll try to post some pics tomorrow. Will probably mow at 3/4" either tomorrow or Tuesday then treat with PGR.

Unfortunately, my plans to scalp the front isn't going to happen, or much else I had planned for the rest of the summer: I'm having back surgery Friday ....


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Ouch good luck with that. Are you having a fusion or a pedicul removed?


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

DSchlauch said:


> Tellycoleman said:
> 
> 
> > so to the original poster @DSchlauch How does everything look?
> ...


Man I can relate. I'm 3back surgeries in. Started at my L5 S1 and has creeped up. Is this your first?


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## Necrosis (Jul 12, 2018)

anthonybilotta said:


> Necrosis said:
> 
> 
> > Jumped on the scalp wagon earlier in June. Still waiting for the lawn to green back up
> ...


Sorry. Typo. July*. So only 3-4 weeks. Scalped it from 4" to 1" or so. Hard to say if they are dead or not. I'm not quite sure. It has new green Bermuda growing through the brown portions. I don't think the woody portions are growing. I'll add a close up later today.


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

@Tellycoleman @TN Hawkeye I'm having a discectomy of L4-L5 and L5-S1, first surgery of any kind for me.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Back surgery, especially discectomies have come along way. After my first one in 1997 I could barely walk for a week. My last one in 2015, we stopped at the grocery store on the way home. Just take it easy, listen to the doctor, and you'll be fine. Don't try to do anything before they tell you that you are ready. Early on take the pain meds as they prescribe. You may not feel like you need one at that time, but in an hour the previous one will start to wear off and you will hurt. After a few days you can start backing off. Good luck.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Ouch a lot of hardware with that surgery. I hope it gives you relief. I know you must be in a lot of pain. I did my internship at a neuro office and they did that a lot. Did the Dr give you odds of success?
I know it's often a crap shoot for success 50/50 but it's the only option for many.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Tellycoleman said:


> Ouch a lot of hardware with that surgery. I hope it gives you relief. I know you must be in a lot of pain. I did my internship at a neuro office and they did that a lot. Did the Dr give you odds of success?
> I know it's often a crap shoot for success 50/50 but it's the only option for many.


So much of post surgery success comes down to genetics. Some people can have the surgery and never have another issue. Some like me with degenerative disc disease can go 15 years and then bam have another issue. My last one was an emergency surgery where I risk paralysis of my left leg had we not operated. I still have no feeling in my left butt cheek which makes for fun party trick. "Yes you can staple my a** cheek again." Worst part was I wasn't doing anything manly when I hurt it. I literally flushed the toilet and straightened up. My L4-L5 disc basically exploded and pieces fell down my spinal column onto my "horsetail" group of nerves. That was 3 years ago on Halloween and no issues since.


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## Tellycoleman (May 10, 2017)

Agreed often many doctors say don't have surgery unless for 3 reasons
1) pain is unbearable 
2) loss of bowel control
3) possible paralysis


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

Yeah, so basically I blew out, totally herniated, L5-S1 about 10-12 years ago pulling a fat *$#(big fella) out of the back window of a car that was upside down and on fire. I've dealt with it for a long time but it has just gotten to the point where enough is enough. I have periods where it doesn't bother me for a while then periods where I can't get out of bed. I fell down a flight of stairs that I couldn't see, and didn't know was there, obviously, last summer in a house fire. (I'm a FF/Paramedic, not just super clumsy)That didn't help it much. So, L5-S1 is totally herniated and L4-L5 is just bulging. I asked the doctor to just go ahead and take care of L4-L5 while he was in there and he concurred that was probably the best course of action. The doctor is pretty optimistic that I will walk out of the surgery pain free, with the exception of the pain from the surgery itself of course. Not having to have any fusions so that's good. I'm trying to be as positive as I can and hoping for the best.

Thanks for the words of encouragement, sorry to get the thread so off topic.


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## jonthepain (May 5, 2018)

Good luck!


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

Scalp done 8.1-8.4, after photos this afternoon 8.13


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## Killmeh (Mar 1, 2018)

Sorry to hear about the surgery! Hope all goes well.

On a side note about scalping, when do y'all think would be too late to scalp?


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## Necrosis (Jul 12, 2018)

Interestingly this portion of the grass that I accidentally cut to dirt did significantly better than the rest of the yard.


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## Bermuda_Newbie (Jun 15, 2018)

@DSchlauch Thanks for sharing your pictures. I scaled a couple days after you and it's about the same progress. I was concerned it was taking so long to green up. Looks like I'm right on track with you. Looking good!


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

I "scalped" mine 8/4 and this is now. So glad I did it. I may throw a little fertilizer down at .5 lb and PRG before I go out of town Thursday. You can see my pics on the first page here.


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## Suaverc118 (Jul 28, 2017)

Here's a morning pic. That brown spot was burned from fertilizer and not enough water I believe. It's getting better.


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## DSchlauch (Jun 25, 2018)

Suaverc118 said:


> Here's a morning pic. That brown spot was burned from fertilizer and not enough water I believe. It's getting better.


Looking good :thumbup:


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## WolfmanC18 (Mar 20, 2018)

I own a Classen TR20 dethatcher and am thinking about sending it through to thin the canopy. I need to buy the slicing blade assembly, but it costs 3 times what I paid for the dethatcher.

How bad will it hurt using flail blades instead of slicing blades?

I already cut as low as the Trucut will go, so I can't scalp any lower.


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## Josh (Aug 8, 2018)

10 days in. 3rd time mowing on the lowest setting. Should I raise the mower to the next setting or continue to mow on the lowest setting? Starting to green up nicely until I mow. I am currently using a Greenworks 40V for the front. Could always use my Hustler, but it's over kill for such a small area. Neighbors cutting height is near 3". Incredibly lush Bermuda for that height.


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## gpbrown60 (Apr 7, 2018)

I say raise a notch or two.


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## gpbrown60 (Apr 7, 2018)

WolfmanC18 said:


> I own a Classen TR20 dethatcher and am thinking about sending it through to thin the canopy. I need to buy the slicing blade assembly, but it costs 3 times what I paid for the dethatcher.
> 
> How bad will it hurt using flail blades instead of slicing blades?
> 
> I already cut as low as the Trucut will go, so I can't scalp any lower.


I have never used the flail blades. You could raise high and gradually drop it down to see if you like your results.


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Josh said:


> 10 days in. 3rd time mowing on the lowest setting. Should I raise the mower to the next setting or continue to mow on the lowest setting? Starting to green up nicely until I mow. I am currently using a Greenworks 40V for the front. Could always use my Hustler, but it's over kill for such a small area. Neighbors cutting height is near 3". Incredibly lush Bermuda for that height.


You have to raise it up at least one notch. You scalp down to reset you HOC. You need to go up a notch to allow the green to grow in. Imagine your grass is your hair (I have none so this is fun for me). You shave your head. After it grows out a bit you really like how it looks. You wouldn't shave it again, you would let it grow out a little bit and cut it back to where it looks good. Same thing with your grass. You scalp it and let it grow out so when you cut it you are cutting it to the height it looks best.


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## TonyC (May 17, 2018)

Josh said:


> 10 days in. 3rd time mowing on the lowest setting. Should I raise the mower to the next setting or continue to mow on the lowest setting? Starting to green up nicely until I mow.


You should scalp lower than your planned HOC. If you scalped on your lowest setting, then up one would be the first check point and likely your new HOC.


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## crzipilot (Jul 4, 2018)

After you scalp,  how long should you wait to mow? Until it grows back and you only cut 1/3 off?


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## Josh (Aug 8, 2018)

18 days later. No products added other than Milo. Still plenty of growing season left. Notice the difference in height from the neighbors.


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## Necrosis (Jul 12, 2018)

Just wanted to update. As others had mentioned I raised the HOC after scalping and the grass grew in perfectly. Pretty happy with it thus far.



Necrosis said:


> Jumped on the scalp wagon earlier in June. Still waiting for the lawn to green back up


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## TN Hawkeye (May 7, 2018)

Necrosis said:


> Just wanted to update. As others had mentioned I raised the HOC after scalping and the grass grew in perfectly. Pretty happy with it thus far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's looking really nice. Good job.


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## TonyC (May 17, 2018)

Awesome! :thumbup: Now go weed and mulch that tree ring.


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## Cjames1603 (Jul 25, 2018)

So starting to think ahead a bit (but not too far ahead). Where do you southeastern Bermuda guys leave you hoc for winter. The flex21 only goes to roughly .5. Should I let it get high enough for rotary on the last cut for winter or do you guys stay as low as .5 for winter?


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## Gopwh2020 (Apr 6, 2017)

Here's my scalp/HOC adjustment. These are 12 days apart. At first the neighbors think you're crazy, but not after today. The TifTuf comes back pretty quickly. I probably watered it slightly more than what it normally needs, but now I'm back to very little water needed.


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