# Goodbye centipede Hello....????



## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Well not quite goodbye. I have 10,000sq/ft with about 2,500sq/ft being the front and side and 7,800sq/ft being the backyard.

Lived with crappy centipede for 8 years at the old house and for about 9 months at our new house.

I am definitely not going to touch the backyard yet as the wife wants to get a put in a pool in a couple years and no use putting a new grass in if it will just get dug up and tore up for now, well that is unless I decide to plug or sprig it cheaply for an experiment. Plus we are installing a 16x16 patio and adding 12x16 on to our deck, so probably not a good year for a backyard reno, probably will just arerate and level. The builder did a horrible job with the sod install.

For the front and sides I would definitely like to replace it. My first thought was St. Augustine as I really don't want to go on the hunt for a decent used reel, so I will be sticking with my riding rotary. But the more I look at Bermuda the more I think I really like it. Plus I just found http://prairieturfequipment.com/product/2011-john-deere-220sl-walking-greens-mowers/ Spending anymore than a $1,000 and my wife would make me get rid of my current mower which I could probably sell for $1,500.

I read all of @J_nick Reno thread were he used seed and that is very encouraging, but I think I would like to go with Tiftuf or Tifgrand. I have requested a quote from SuperSod for 2,500sq/ft.

I am thinking about trying to plug the parkway portion of the front yard which is only maybe 300sq/ft and see how it goes from there.

I also have about 450sq/ft in the back that the builder did not sod, was thinking about maybe sodding it and then using it as my source for plugs/sprigs. How quickly could I rob plugs from it? How long would it take before I could take plugs from it again?

I keep dreaming of someone coming up with a seed for bermuda that you can overseed centipede with and have it take over.

This has to pass the WAF(wife accept factor) and that mainly being $$$$


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Welcome to TLF!!!

I would go with the sod (TifGrand, I'm biased ) and do the parkway with it too while you are at it since it's not much more. I would say you could probably start pulling plugs from the new sod once it has all grown together and you no longer can see the seams of the individual sod pieces. You might be able to get away with it a little sooner if the need arises. After filing the donor plugs hole with sand, you could probably take new plugs every 3-4 weeks if you are feeding and watering properly.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Been calling around and haven't found TifTuf or TifGrand yet, did find some L36 @ $165/pallet which covers 375sq/ft. I could easily get 2 pallets and the wife wouldn't care.

I have to check with the neighbors since about 20-30sq/ft of the parkway is on their side, but I maintain it, I am sure they won't care that I replace all of it.

Will bermuda overtake centipede?


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

Whatever Bermuda cultivar you plan to use make sure you like it and want to stay with it. It could take a full growing season to kill it off if you want to switch later on.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Centipede is not hard to get rid of if you do not want it. It struggles if the soil pH is too high, Phosphorus levels are too high, and there is too much Nitrogen applied per month. It has a hard time with a HOC less than 1/2". In other words, what you are supposed to do to make Bermuda shine, is opposite of how Centipede is supposed to be handled.

I have had to plug areas of lawn totaling about 2000 sq ft getting it done in one day. What I used was a 3" soil auger like this one










I drilled holes in the ground about 3" deep and 6" apart. I used the spoils from the drilling to cover over the plugs completely. Avoiding having them sticking up. Planting plugs that way guarantees you will scalp those plugs at every mowing. It is easier to fill up the slight depressions left if needed.

Once the lawn is composed of mostly Bermuda with some Centipede contaminating it, you can chemically injure the Centipede. Quinclorac(Drive) is not to be applied to Centipede. Neither is Monument or Revolver.

I have done this kind of no till, no re sod kinds of renovations in cases where the original grass was not appropriate for the area and budget was an issue. It only took time and some work.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

If I do just the 2,500sq/ft for the front and sides it would only be about $1000 in sod, which is not an issue at all. I just think if I plug it and do it the hard way it would feel more of an accomplishment. lol


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

J_nick said:


> Whatever Bermuda cultivar you plan to use make sure you like it and want to stay with it. It could take a full growing season to kill it off if you want to switch later on.


I just noticed your kill count!!! What are you using on the gopher and moles? They are tearing up my backyard, I think I have a whole family of them.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Gibby said:


> If I do just the 2,500sq/ft for the front and sides it would only be about $1000 in sod, which is not an issue at all. I just think if I plug it and do it the hard way it would feel more of an accomplishment. lol


Sod is not that expensive in your area. The fact that you have Centipede, albeit looking horrible makes me pay attention to your soil conditions. Centipede existing suggests an acid, low Phosphorus soil to begin with. Failure to address those conditions will most likely lead to Bermuda not looking good either. A soil test costing about $60 will tell you exactly what you have and how to treat it.


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## J_nick (Jan 28, 2017)

For moles I use a Victor Out O'sight trap and for gophers I use a Trapline Gophinator. You can check them out in the separate Mole and Gopher threads.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Here is my soil test from the end of August last year done by Logan Labs.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

If you want the Bermuda, that calls for some Calcium, Magnesium, and Phosphorus. The fact that some areas are at pH 6 are the reason why the Centipede is even hanging on. The areas that are higher in Calcium and pH can probably be explained by construction. Concrete, stucco, and plaster alter soil chemistry. Did you sample very close to the foundations of the house?


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Greendoc said:


> If you want the Bermuda, that calls for some Calcium, Magnesium, and Phosphorus. The fact that some areas are at pH 6 are the reason why the Centipede is even hanging on. The areas that are higher in Calcium and pH can probably be explained by construction. Concrete, stucco, and plaster alter soil chemistry. Did you sample very close to the foundations of the house?


No I did not sample close to the house, but I have found lots of concrete rubble in the buried in the front yard. What I did was take 6 sames with https://smile.amazon.com/Advanced-Simplicity-120607-Sampler-Probe/dp/B01M7RDBXD/ from the area and then used the 3-4" from that and added it to a baggy.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Got it. Bermuda is fairly tolerant of high Calcium soils. Grows well here, where most yards are constructed of a little bit of inland soil pasted over coral. The coral is used as fill material prior to constructing a house or entire neighborhood. Centipede only exists here where that construction practice was not done.


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## TC2 (Sep 15, 2017)

TifTuf goes for $160 per pallet/500sqft from Supersod.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

TC2 said:


> TifTuf goes for $160 per pallet/500sqft from Supersod.


It is actually cheaper than I was thinking. Makes me want to go pick some up this weekend.. After I run to lowes and buy a trailer that they have on sale.

On another note, has any used a sod cutter and sold it prior to doing a reno?


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

So I went and measured then geeked out inputting my numbers into my plot.



~2500 sq/ft is definitely want I want to reno this year, the sides will be going back to where our fence will be.

Front:



Side 1:


This area will need grading better as you can see where I scalped last July and it never grew back.


Side 2:


Have a quote request in to SuperSod for TifTuf and TifGrand. Might have to find some to go look at as I am having trouble deciding between them.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

If you scalped with a rotary mower, any high spots are immediately dug out roots and all. I do not see any kind of extreme irregularity in the lawn. All things being equal, a reel mower would scalp a lawn far less during routine mowing. I remember maintaining a 1/2 acre Centipede lawn with my GM 1000 at 5/8". No scalping. When it was done with rotary mowers at 2-3", plenty of scalping all over the place. Looked hideous, never mind it being in a neighborhood where each property was worth over a million.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

While we aren't worth a million lol the wife probably wishes, there quite a few homes in here that are, plus the golf course. I want dominate them all.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Ok, then the rotary mower is gone, a retired greens mower comes in and the grass replaced with Bermuda. I know most people are not that well off, nothing is more horrible to me that being worth that much and the lawn looking like garbage. I see it all the time in my state.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

How hard is it on a greens mower to mow a yard(my back yard) that is not smooth at all... tons of bumps and dips everywhere.

Would the mower I linked in first post be a decent choice?


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## Mightyquinn (Jan 31, 2017)

Gibby said:


> How hard is it on a greens mower to mow a yard(my back yard) that is not smooth at all... tons of bumps and dips everywhere.
> 
> Would the mower I linked in first post be a decent choice?


I think it would be but I can't remember the max HOC on it. I'm sure someone who know will be by shortly.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

You should know that I mow and spray lawns for a living. Nothing I have seen in the pictures is so bad that a greensmower running on rollers will not mow it superbly. It is the rotary mower that you have to watch out for. None of the lawns I deal with are countertop flat. They all have bumps, changes in grade and dips. The greensmower gently rolls up and down the bumps, inclines, or dips without tearing up the lawns. What is left is a smooth cut without any kind of scalping. It is also the front throw reels on casters and wheels one needs to be careful of. Those are almost as bad about scalping as a rotary mower.


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

Find a zeon or emerald lawn to see. Scana energy HQ has it

Side 2 get shade?


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

jayhawk said:


> Find a zeon or emerald lawn to see. Scana energy HQ has it
> 
> Side 2 get shade?


House faces North so hardly any shade on the front and sides.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

jayhawk said:


> Find a zeon or emerald lawn to see. Scana energy HQ has it
> 
> Side 2 get shade?


:thumbup: Zeon or Emerald mowed with a greensmower look stunning. One note. Emerald is one of the most shade tolerant out of the two.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

How are these prices?


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

@Gibby , I know 500sqft pallets of TifTuf were going between $150-$225 in Alabama. That price seems rather legit to me.


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## TC2 (Sep 15, 2017)

Gibby said:


> How hard is it on a greens mower to mow a yard(my back yard) that is not smooth at all... tons of bumps and dips everywhere.


It's entirely possible, but not a very pleasant experience. I won't use the 1600 on the rear lawn because it bounces around so much I fear for its health. My front lawn isn't flat but the bumps and dips are less severe and it's perfectly fine on there.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Our country club has 2 golf courses, I think I might hit them up and see if they have any used/old/broken reels I can get on the cheap and fix up.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

What grass type would stay green the longest in SC?


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

tiffTuff in Bermuda....
Zoysia til the end the year, greens up sooner , easily in comparison in Atlanta


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## Colonel K0rn (Jul 4, 2017)

Quite a read, and you're getting great advice. If I can suggest something, check out Tractor Supply for their trailers. Reason being is that if you need a tire, or hitch, or anything else related to that trailer that you buy from there, you'll be able to get a perfect match for the same part you're replacing. Some of the trailers that I have seen at Lowe's were questionable as far as build quality, and I opted to go for the wooden floor 6x8 that I have now.

And yes, you can get a great cut on a bumpy as hell yard. My back yard is terribly bumpy, and I get a great cut with my Flex 21. I'm going to be sanding it as well as the front this year. Looking forward to having at least some flat areas to work with in the future.


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## MasterMech (Sep 24, 2017)

Gibby said:


> How hard is it on a greens mower to mow a yard(my back yard) that is not smooth at all... tons of bumps and dips everywhere.
> 
> Would the mower I linked in first post be a decent choice?


I run a 26" Jacobsen greensmower on 20k of builders grade lawn. So yeah, it can be done!

I would not go for an 18" machine for 10k of lawn. At a minimum I'd want one of the 22" (most common size) or 26" units.

A retired greensmower is probably the best bang for your buck but have you checked out the Swardman thread over in the equipment section?


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Colonel K0rn said:


> Quite a read, and you're getting great advice. If I can suggest something, check out Tractor Supply for their trailers. Reason being is that if you need a tire, or hitch, or anything else related to that trailer that you buy from there, you'll be able to get a perfect match for the same part you're replacing. Some of the trailers that I have seen at Lowe's were questionable as far as build quality, and I opted to go for the wooden floor 6x8 that I have now.
> 
> And yes, you can get a great cut on a bumpy as hell yard. My back yard is terribly bumpy, and I get a great cut with my Flex 21. I'm going to be sanding it as well as the front this year. Looking forward to having at least some flat areas to work with in the future.


 Too late on the trailer... $550 for 5x8, couldn't pass it up


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

So I found some Zoysia today, they also had some 419... They had Diamond and Royal... I think I am in love with the Diamond Zoysia...

I knew/know about nothing in regards to Zoysia. She told me the Diamond Zoysia grows only 1.5" throughout the year.

Then I got the prices per pallet which is 450 sq/ft of rolls.

Royal is $220/pallet
Diamond is $420/pallet


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

Ugh. It's appalling that they let the Diamond get that long. Diamond is tolerant of greens height mowing and should probably not be allowed to exceed 1" ever.

It is slower growing than other grasses, and I assume that helps with it's shade tolerance 
as it is possibly the most shade tolerant of all warm season grasses. I would be cautious about thinking it only grows 1.5" VERTICALLY every year, but the growth rate HORIZONTALLY is probably accurate.

Keep in mind that also means that it will be slower to repair itself than other grasses from any damage. It also is not very cold tolerant. I really don't understand the price difference between it and Royal either. Here, all of the cultivars are priced at least closely, including Diamond. One of our TLF members has Royal, and it is VERY nice.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

They had 419 planted but it was just starting to go green however it was overseeded with rye.

Supersod just got back to me and found some TifTuf that is installed at a model home in my sub-division so I am going to check it out later.


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## jayhawk (Apr 18, 2017)

419 overseeded.....that's misleading to the buyer. They clearly aren't taking care of any of their plots of grass. 
You're near Clemson....if so, I doubt winter injury is even possible.

Zoysia (zeon, diamond, emerald, royal) is going to cost more than bermuda....it just takes more time for a sod producer to grow. What's a mass builder going to choose ?

I nuked all my 419 ....I got so annoyed with it in the summer...."raise the height" game.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

I do not think I have seen a 419 home lawn in my state in years. Only places that have 419 are the golf courses. The sports fields have mostly gone to TifGrand.


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## Gibby (Apr 3, 2018)

Breathing life into this...













Plan is, double dose of Tnex in the morning(stunt centpeide and control it during June while away on vacation), following by some sand to level, then seed, then cover with sand.

Will water 5 minutes every hour sunrise to sunset.

P.S. I did prodiamine on 3/30 at 8 month rate....

Once grow in is done, some monument possibly to kill remaining centipede.


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