# Pete1313 Reel Mowed Bewitched Kentucky Bluegrass Renovation



## Pete1313

My name is Pete, I'm 34 years old from NW Illinois, I am addicted to lawncare and have been for over 10 years. From my first home(Pic of my oldest daughter in our first lawn in 2006),







to my second home(some double wides in 2013),







to my third home(Bewitched KBG reel mowed at 3/4" in 2015).







Every home I have progressively gotten more obsessed, and have learned alot along the way. So my wife and kids already know the drill, we buy a new home and now it's time for Dad to renovate the lawn again!

This chapter in lawn renovations will hopefully be it for a while(at least for my own lawn), as my family and I have settled in to make this our forever home. We purchased it in May of 2016 and sits on a triangle shaped 1.25 acres of which 38k sq ft is turf. (Pics from last year when we closed)





































The plan is to renovate with a monostand of Bewitched Kentucky Bluegrass and maintain it at low heights of cut between .75-1"(possibly lower) with a John Deere 2500B triplex reel mower that i picked up last year. 









In a few posts later on tonight I'll go thru some of the steps I have done so far, both this year and last year to get to the point I am at today and then do progress updates as I try and transform an old Northern Mix to something remenesent of a cool season sports field.


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## Michael303

This should be good! Your post on ATY was one of a couple that set off the epiphany that going short with cool season grass was a real option for me to DIY.


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## chrismar

Awesome! Looking forward to following the progress!


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## Redtenchu

I can't wait! Love the new forever home!


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## LIgrass

Congrats..This is going to be awesome! If I had that mower I think I'd mow twice a day :bandit:


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## Pete1313

Thanks for the replies. I am really excited and anxious. The kill date is 10 days away. 
And seed down is about 7.5 weeks away. It has been a plan in the works for about a year and can't wait to see the final product!



Michael303 said:


> This should be good! Your post on ATY was one of a couple that set off the epiphany that going short with cool season grass was a real option for me to DIY.


I'm glad it inspired you and others that close mowed cool season turf was not just something you saw on sports fields. I was hesitant to write that post, mostly because it was against the grain of what most are trained to do with kentucky bluegrass. Looking back, I am glad I did and am excited to see others sharing the same interest i have in short KBG!


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## Pete1313

Going from my previous home with 4.3k sq ft of turf to my new home of 38k, it was a no brainer that equipment upgrades were in order. First off, i decided on a John Deere X590 to be my workhorse for the yard. Tasks such as spraying, aerating, hauling, towing a drag mat, and mulching leaves are all handled with ease. It handles all the slopes and hills in the yard great.









Next on the list was a good spray setup. I needed a sprayer that could accurately and efficiently spray 38k as I do alot of spraying. I spray alot of Primo+FAS, Serenade, and soil conditioners. I decided on the JD 25 gallon mounted unit. (Pic with my youngest when he helped me put it together)








This unit had a spray width of 90", but with only 3 nozzles spaced 30" apart it was not going to apply products with the precision I demand, so upgrades were in order. I made a new boom for it made out of 1" square tube, fit the existing "brake away" bars on the ends, and was able to now have a 5 nozzle boom that evenly sprays 120" wide with nozzles spaced closer at 24".






















120" wide is an important width because the 2500B mow width is 60" wide (after a 2" overlap). By making it spray 120" I can just drive up and down the stripes created by the 2500B and get 100% overlap coverage (sprays the whole stripe I drive down, plus half of the adjacent stripe on the left and the right). I also added a pressure gauge, pressure regulator, primary strainer, and check valve strainers at the tips. Also the excess coming off the pressure regulator is routed back to the tank to keep a continuous agitation to whatever I am spraying.
















I also mounted up a bicycle style speedometer to the x590 so I can keep a consistent speed while spraying. The speedo is mounted on the spray control switch, so I can watch the speed in hand and also start/stop the spray.







the sensor portion of the Speedo is mounted on a home made bracket that is just inside the right rear wheel. The pickup magnet is mounted to the rim.









Other equipment upgrades consisted of changing out my Earthway spreader for a Spyker, a 48" tow aerator, and I already had a tow lawn roller and lawn cart when I had a lawn tractor back in 2006.


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## wardconnor

Nice work Pete. I think you already know how I feel about low cut cool season turf. Can't wait to see your progress.


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## Pete1313

In September of last year I ended up picking up a 2011 John Deere 2500B from an auction in Florida. The triplex was part of a list of equipment brought to auction from globalturfequipment and auctioned off by rebel auction company on proxibid. The exact unit I got was listed on globalturf's website, and I was able to attain it from the auction for about 25% of the price they had it listed at. My guess is units that sit on globalturf's lot for a certain amount of time end up getting auctioned off to make room for new units.




































It needed alittle TLC, but everything worked on it. It had around 1800hrs on it. QA5 7 blade reel cutting units with a max bench HOC of 1.5", groomers spaced for greens conditioning, and rear roller brushes.

I spent the rest of 2016 mowing with the triplex as much as possible so I get a good feel of what it needed over winter as well as seeing how well it handled the yard. It left amazing stripes on the NoMix and I was able to cut down to 1.125" with no scalping at all.
















Over the winter i went thru the machine and did some reconditioning. I was able to get quite a few cuts with it in the fall and gauge what shape it is in, how it performed around the property, and start figuring out what needed to be addressed. The engine, chassis, and hydraulics on the machine were in great shape. No leaks, everything works very smoothly, and the engine cylinder leakage and compression tests were very good (<5% leakage, 180-185 compression). The only things needed on the engine/chassis itself are the PMs (change oil/coolant, tune up, change hydro fluid). And I changed the smooth tires to turfs.









After figuring out that the 2500B was going to be a good fit for the property, and that I was able to cut the NoMix at 1.125" before any renovations, I rebuilt the cutting units with the goal to set them up to maintain KBG between .5"-1" bench HOC.

First off I basically stripped each cutting unit down, spent a lot of time with parts in the solvent tank, made a rust removing bath for the rusted parts, and any rusted painted parts were stripped, primed, and painted. Then every threaded surface had a tap or die run across it before applying some fluid film. Sorry no before pics, but here is what a cutting unit looked like just before reassembly.









Here are some pics of the groomer assembly that I am excited to try out. I converted the greens setup to a fairway setup. 
(Old spacers and knives removed.)








(Difference between greens knife and fairway knife.) 








(Assembled unit with knives now spaced 1/2" apart opposed to 1/4" apart before.)









I had to do some work inside the conditioner drives. They would intermittently work. There is a tapered brass bushing that works similar to how a synchro works in a manual transmission. It is under the gear the screwdriver is pointing to. When pressure is put on that bushing it locks the gear to the shaft. They were worn and needed attention. I also found a cracked bearing and partially sheared off keyway in one of the units.
















I measured the reels and they were all around 4.7"(5" is new). They cut ok, but would have needed a grind before next year. Because they needed a grind, are over half worn, and that I wanted to see how well a new reel cut, I decided to splurge and get new reels. 
(Old reels)








(How JD packages the new reels)









I replaced all the reel bearings, and seals. As well as all the seals on the conditioner drives.

Here is a pic of a rusty old bearing compared to new. I think the course that had this machine needs to rethink their greasing interval.








Replaced the bedknives from the low cut greens knife(not sure why they were even paired with a 7 blade reel?) To a high cut fairway knife. Notice the difference in design, and how much thicker the fairway knife is. Also the top face and front faces are wider.









Here is some pics of them fully assembled, adjusted and just awaiting a backlap.

In this pic you can see I ditched the rear power brush and as a result I had to add the appropriate counterweight.









Here you can see the new bedbar pivot cam, bolt, and hardware.








Here you can see I got rid of the smooth hollow rollers on the rear, I moved the solid smooth rollers that were previously on the front to the back, and added some new grooved rollers to the front.









Some additional pics.


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## J_nick

That is a beautiful machine Pete. You've done an amazing job fixing it up. I love your property and can't wait to see it sub 1" with some top quality grass.


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## Pete1313

Thanks Ward and J_nick. Finding a good deal on the mower, fixing it up to a like new condition and setting it up just how I wanted it was a blast! It is really a fun machine to mow with!


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## Pete1313

I also ended up changing out the hydro fluid, coolant, plugs, filters, belt, and changed the oil. I then backlapped them to match up the new bedknife to reel.

A few other updates I did to the mower was add a fairway yoke kit and a third wheel assist kit. 















When I mowed with it in the fall there was a couple issues that affected the aftercut appearance. One was resolved by changing out the greens style yoke kit with the chains to a yoke kit like you would find on 7500A fairway mower. With the greens yoke kit, the cutting units would bounce around more causing some washboarding and uneven cuts especially since the yard is not perfectly smooth. With the new kit aftercut quality was improved. JD markets the kit as,









I added the third wheel assist because of the slopes and hills on the property. The 2 wheel setup handled the yard fine when it was dry out, but when conditions were not ideal I would break the tires loose and tear up some turf in some places. I didn't want to worry about ruining new seedlings in the first couple mows or waiting a few days after it rained to mow or not mowing in the morning. Now that it is 3wd I can go up the steepest slope in my yard Which is 18° and have zero wheel spin even in a rainstorm (yes I did try it  )

The end result of these two upgrades is I feel I have a mower that would cut my yard as well as any trim/surround mower but is significantly lighter, has a smaller cutting width of 62" which i needed to get around some obstacles, and 22" cutting heads that provide better contouring of the terrain.

A few pics of how it mowed the yard early April this year


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## Pete1313

One of the biggest issues needing to get solved was being able to get water supplied to the yard. Luckily the home had an irrigation system that was installed by the first homeowners back in 1993. The bad news is the system had not been used by the second owners at all from 2004-2016. The system has 7 zones, but initially was only able to find 4 valves. So I powered up the system and manually turned on some of the zones I found. Surprisingly, sprinklers started poping up all thru the yard! Some of the heads blew off risers(replaced and fixed the damaged ones), most did not rotate, all were old hunter "G" type heads, but the main lines held pressure and the supply lines seemed to be in working order!

I had to get in touch with the 1st owners (who still lived in town) to try and locate the remaining zones and valve boxes. Luckily they took alot of pictures back in '93 and I was able to turn over a large rock to find one, and dig thru mulch beds to find the others.

One setback in the irrigation was about 5 minutes after I turned on a zone, the water pressure would drop and the sprinklers would fall back down. I went down to the pressure gauge by the well plumbing and could see the pressure slowly fall as a zone ran. It quickly became obvious that the well pump that was installed was not going to supply the volume I needed. I talked over options with my well guy and had him run a few tests.

The well has a static water level if 120ft, the current pump was set at 140ft, the well was drilled 240ft deep, and has a recovery of 30gpm. But there was only a 3/4hp pump installed that only put out about 6gpm. Talking with the well guy, wanting a variable speed pump, and initially wanting to use all of that 30gpm recovery, I quickly realized that due to the price, putting in a 3-5hp pump with a new wiring and supply line was not going to be an option.

We decided on installing a 1.5hp Grundfos constant pressure well pump setup.























The new pump works great, no more 60/40 cycling when using water in the house, and the pump now has an output of just over 16gpm. Also since it is a variable output unit, I would not need to match the sprinkler output with the well to prevent it from cycling. This was important since the sprinkler system is existing and would make rehabbing it alot easier. This spring when I fired up the irrigation after the pump was installed, the sprinklers popped up and stayed up. Ran one zone for 5hrs and had no issues, even with the flow meter showing it putting out about 15gpm. I was excited to now have the supply to begin rehabbing the rest of the irrigation!


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## ericgautier

Definitely looking forward to this! :thumbup:


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## Ware

Great story. This is going to be an epic thread.


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## Pete1313

Thanks EG and Ware. Definitely getting excited, anxious, and nervous now that this "milo" is about to get real! This is the biggest renovation i have done(previously 12k was the biggest), and the size of it is what makes me nervous/anxious. One thing that I am glad I did was get the ball rolling early on, as I wouldn't want to be rushing to seed down on something this large. Still some little things to do such as killing it, tweeking irrigation, hopefully three rounds of seed bed smoothing/prep, but most of the big stuff is done. Glyphosate is planned for June 25th! I'll try and get some more updates up tonight.


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## GrassDaddy

Wow! Very impressive setup! I'm doing the backyard at 1in, and front yard at 3.5in. I wanted to see if this whole growing short thing was just what people say or had anything to it =P Looks like you proved it can be done lol


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## ales_gantar

Wow.
Quick question: how do you manage to sustain the grass at 1 inch or lower? How often do you mow? I mow every 3 days and on a 160 sqm lawn I collect about 15 liters of grass clippings. K try to keep it at about 4-5 cm.


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## Pete1313

Thanks GrassDaddy and ales_gantar. At the 1.0" height I currently mow about 2x a week on the NoMix. That is trying to follow the 1/3rd rule. When I had bewitched at .75" at my last home, I mowed once every 5 days. You would think at such a low height, you would need to mow every day, but that is not the case for a few reasons. 1) bewitched is a slower growing cultivar, 2) I use generic Primo Maxx which reduces the top growth, and 3) I think shorter mowed grass just grows less in general. For example, if you mow at 3" and you get 1" of growth in 2 days, you won't get 1" of growth when cutting the same grass at 1" in 2 days. It will be less.


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## Ridgerunner

I am enjoying this thread immensely.


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## LIgrass

Pete1313 said:


> 3) I think shorter mowed grass just grows less in general. For example, if you mow at 3" and you get 1" of growth in 2 days, you won't get 1" of growth when cutting the same grass at 1" in 2 days. It will be less.


Interesting. I was wondering about that. That's good to know. I wonder if that's due to the grass being "trained" to stay short, or if less leaf surface = less photosynthesis/energy to grow out as rapidly...


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## Pete1313

Once winter was over, I couldn't wait to get the renovation started. First i took out all of the brick edging that was in the front and side beds by the house. 








I then started defining all the mulch beds. I was really aggressive with the lip depth knowing I would back fill part of it with mulch and I collected all the sod chunks so I could have a pile of soil that would be needed later for leveling. In total I have about 7.5k sq ft of beds and after defining them, I probably collected 8-10 cu yds of soil in a pile in the back of the yard.
















When all the beds were defined and cleaned up, I ended up spraying a mixture of Prodiamine+Isoxaben to limit weed growth in the beds. I also Glyphosated the new planned mulched area by the swing set and trampoline and trimmed up all the trees.























A couple of notes I made from early spring to address later on 1) I saw an incredible amount of grubs when defining the beds, and 2) the few fine fescue patches that are in the shadier areas have alot of thatch.









Also I took these pictures from March 11th. The lawn greened up significantly earlier then the neighbors yards. It could have been from fall urea feedings, but if you see the sharp line between my neighbors yard on the left I suspect it was from the late fall primo apps. There is research out of OSU that suggested fall primo maxx applications encouraged spring green up. I applied primo on 9/3 and 10/1.


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## Pete1313

Ridgerunner said:


> I am enjoying this thread immensely.


Thanks for following Ridgerunner!



LIgrass said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3) I think shorter mowed grass just grows less in general. For example, if you mow at 3" and you get 1" of growth in 2 days, you won't get 1" of growth when cutting the same grass at 1" in 2 days. It will be less.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. I was wondering about that. That's good to know. I wonder if that's due to the grass being "trained" to stay short, or if less leaf surface = less photosynthesis/energy to grow out as rapidly...
Click to expand...

I wonder as well. I do suspect the latter. Less leaf, less roots, maybe alittle more stress on the plant by mowing lower.


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## Mightyquinn

I've been out of the loop for a few days and am now just catching up on things here. AMAZING thread you have here Pete :thumbup: Keep up the great work on the thread and your lawn/equipment.


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## Pete1313

Thanks Mightyquinn! I think part of the reason I love this hobby is just for the equipment.


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## Pete1313

In May I decided to tackle the irrigation. With the new well pump installed, all of the zones would pop up and hold pressure. It is a 7 zone system made of pvc with 42 hunter "G" type heads. After running it and marking all the heads, I quickly realized that it was not going to deliver the coverage and uniformity that I needed. Also all of the heads needed to get upgraded. Most of the heads were spaced around 40ft apart and there were no heads within 20ft of the street. So I drew up on paper where I would put sprinkler heads if I were to design the system from new with closer 30ft spacing. I then marked the yard with "X's" where all the heads should be, compared the old zones with new placement, and started drawing where heads needed to be moved and where heads needed to be added to get proper coverage. I also marked with dashed lines where I was trenching for new feeder lines to the light posts, new wiring to valve boxes, and I redid the invisible dog fence around the yard as well since I had the trencher because it was only 1" in the ground and I needed it deeper so I wouldn't hit it when aerating.























I then rented a trencher and sliced up the yard. The new trenches are about 10" in the ground. Well above where the existing pvc is buried.












































I tied to the existing pcv and used poly pipe for the new install. In total I used 1000ft of poly pipe, 1000ft of invisible fence wire, 400ft of valve wiring, 250ft of feeder cable to the lights, and 56 new Hunter PGP heads. I then tested and everything worked great and began backfilling.
(Some video clips of some zones)




https://youtu.be/4d1qHpvQvSI

I used my drag setup that I made over winter and plan to use for seed bed prep and leveling to backfill all the trenches. It made quick work and really helped get all the soil back in the trench. In total it weighs about 200lbs and the X590 did a good job pulling it.





































The irrigation system went from a 7 zone 42 head system with around 40ft spacing with no coverage at the street to a 7 zone 56 head system with closer 30ft spacing and good coverage throughout the yard. Each zone puts out roughly 12.5gpm which will take each zone about 4hrs to put an inch of water down. I would like more, but is a number I can work with. One nice thing about the low precipitation rate is it works really well with the clay loam soil i have. At 12.5gpm i still have enough flow from the well to run the shower, washing machine or other inside plumbing while keeping the system running at 60psi. By the time I was done, all but 12 of the existing heads needed to be moved some amount.


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## GrassDaddy

Wow those bed edges look really clean!


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## Pete1313

Thanks. They turn out really good with the shovel. I think now that they are cut out and established I will look into getting a bed redefiner(either echo or stihl) for next year due to the amount of edging.


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## Pete1313

Since updating the irrigation I have been playing around with the controller alot and figuring out its features. I ended up installing the Hunter Hydrawise unit with their wired flow meter.















I really like the ability to control it from from my phone which is nice when checking and adjusting zones. The main reason I chose it over the Rachio 2nd gen was the cost with the flow meter installed. A downside to the controller is you need to pay an extra fee to monitor weather stations that are not airports. But since I do my own watering calculations based on ET and rainfall and dont plan on using the smart watering feature it is not a factor. The flow meter is a nice feature. I like tracking the GPM and water usage(meter analog part is in metric, but converts to GPM if wanted when viewing in app) and it gives you charts on GPM, total gallons used per water cycle and total used per week. It also let's you set alerts and sends phone notifications when no flow is detected when a zone is running or when flow is detected and no zone is running which is a nice feature when your main lines are 20 yr old pvc.


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## Pete1313

Speaking of main leak, over Memorial Day weekend I had to fix a slow main leak in one of the valve boxes that was caused by the second owners planting a tree right next to it. I had to use poly as it was too tight to try any type of pvc repair. This spot where the leak was is where the main line from the house splits off and goes to the 4 valve boxes. I think this is important that I found where they split at because if I ever have a major issue with a main line that is hard to locate or not repairable, I can run a new mainline from this point to any zone box and bypass the problem.





































I also had 35yds of mulch delivered and put it down the same weekend. Estimated the mulch fairly well as I was just alittle short and didn't have enough to finish under the trampoline.


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## Pete1313

The weekend of June 10th and 11th I spent time backfilling and then rolling all the trenches that had sunk down with all the rain that was received in the month since the irrigation was completed. I also set and leveled any heads that were off. I tilled and used up almost all the soil that was saved from when the beds were cut out.






























Some pics after the trenches were filled and rolled.


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## Pete1313

Being 8 days away from killing the lawn, I put down 1 lb/k of urea on Saturday. The goal is to keep everything growing good to get a better kill. I think of it as the old lawn' s last meal! 

On Sunday I took out an old fire pit that was falling apart. I didn't like it's location and was too small and will relocating and building a new pit in the back of the yard where I have already been burning alot of tree trimmings. I went down 5-6" in the pit and will backfill with some remaining soil I have in the back if the yard. 















("O" marks where the old pit was and "X" marks where the new will go)









I also spent some time on the triplex on Sunday. I neglected it a bit with all the irrigation work I was doing. I cleaned off all the mud that was built up on the rollers, cleaned the reels well, backlapped them, touched up the front face on the bedknives, and checked them over to make sure everything was still in good shape. I had to replace the yoke block on the rear cutting unit. I mowed with it a few weeks ago before I backfilled the trenches with more soil. The front roller of the rear unit got caught on the lip of a trench that had sunk down 2 inches and bent up the block. Lesson learned. At least the part was only $12. The rear reel wasn't tracking right as a result and as you can see in the pic was hanging really low when in transport mode.






























Also I forgot to mention a few things that needed to be repaired this spring when mowing with the triplex. The left front reel motor developed a small leak. It was small, but noticeable when it was parked in the garage. It was leaking from the seal where the screwdriver is pointing. Hydro fluid was also entering the reel bearing as a result. No damage was done to the bearing so i regreased the bearing and replaced all the seals as JD sells a motor seal rebuild kit.























Also had to repair the rear hydro steering cylinder. The square block part that is bolted on to the frame on the right fell off of the steering cylinder shaft. It is threaded and the shaft screws into the block. The threads stripped out of the block and you cannot buy it separate. You can only get the whole cylinder, so to save some $$ I welded it to the cylinder. Good as new, and works great!


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## Mightyquinn

You have great documentation of your lawn journey in this thread Pete!! You should turn this into a book 

I loved the line about your lawn getting it's "last meal". That was classic :thumbup:

Great to see that everything is coming along nice and really enjoying this thread.


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## Pete1313

Thanks Mightyquinn. I couldn't wait to get it all posted. I had all the pics, but was worried I would forget some stuff if I didn't get it uploaded. It is nice to have everything in one spot, and when the journey is done, it will be great to look back at how far it has come.


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## MrMeaner

Wow!!! Awesome work on everything from the lawn, irrigation, flowerbed and greens mower!! Love everything you've done!!


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## SGrabs33

Pete1313 said:


>


You have your hands full with that yard but you've got the right tools to do the work. Everything is coming along really nicely, Pete. I have always really liked this one picture in particular. Just something with the clean edges and the transition zone in between the dark green plots of grass!


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## Pete1313

Thanks MrMeaner and SGrabs33.



SGrabs33 said:


> ...you've got the right tools to do the work.


Imagine my wife's response when I told her I got another mower from auction only a few months after getting the X590 from JD... better to ask for forgiveness, right?



SGrabs33 said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...I have always really liked this one picture in particular. Just something with the clean edges and the transition zone in between the dark green plots of grass!
Click to expand...

I really like that area as well. It was done to save time edging, as well as the triplex won't fit between the swing set and trampoline that is leveled and set in the ground. I like the separation and the dark green color of Bewitched will look nice with the mulch. Looks like Google maps updated my yard sometime this spring. 








Here you can see it when i first edged it out. The circle area is 25ft in diameter and 46yds from the street tree line. Could make a nice pitch shot the way it funnels down to the circle, what do you think? Maybe a future project!


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## SGrabs33

Pete1313 said:


> Could make a nice pitch shot the way it funnels down to the circle, what do you think? Maybe a future project!


Looks like your far enough away from the house for worry! Go for it!


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## lagerman72

I don't venture to the cool side too often but glad I did. I just read all of this and wow, great work on everything!


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## Pete1313

SGrabs33 said:


> Looks like your far enough away from the house for worry! Go for it!


Maybe someday!



lagerman72 said:


> I don't venture to the cool side too often but glad I did. I just read all of this and wow, great work on everything!


Thanks lagerman!


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## Spammage

This was certainly an entertaining read Pete. I can't wait to see how awesome the yard will look with everything you have done.


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## Pete1313

Thanks Spammage. Getting anxious now that it's only 4 days until roundup!


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## ericgautier

Pete1313 said:


> Getting anxious now that it's only 4 days until roundup!


It's the final countdown! :lol:


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## Pete1313

ericgautier said:


> It's the final countdown! :lol:


 :nod:


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## J_nick

Did you get it sprayed?


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## Pete1313

Glyphosate is going down this morning! I am going to mason line the property lines in a bit. I'll update later today.


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## Redtenchu

Nice!


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## Spammage

:banana:


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## Pete1313

No turning back now, it should be completely dead in a couple weeks!

Started off Saturday morning laying some stripes to use as a guide for spraying. Let the grass grow up to 1.25"-1.5" and just rolled over it with the reels. I didn't want to cut it the day before spraying. Amazing what alittle urea and water will do for a lawn. It is looking the best it ever has and is healthy and actively growing which I think is important to get a good kill. Here are some pre-kill pics, and don't let the pics fool you. Up close it doesn't look as nice, especially with all the different grass types, and color and density differences.































I then took advantage of the rest of Saturday to apply some soil amendments, and on Saturday evening sprayed a mixture which included imidacloprid so I don't have any surprise grub issues when renovating, as well as some soil conditioners and watered it all in Saturday night.









Then woke up early Sunday and layed down some mason line on the property lines.









I sprayed the first 5ft in of the property lines with the backpack sprayer.









Then sprayed the rest of the yard with the mounted sprayer. I planned that the yard needed 320oz of 41% glyphosate. Luckily the Homedepot by me carries it in that exact size (2.5 gallons) and at a decent price of $45. 









I ended up using exactly 320oz in 70gal of water and mixed in 16oz of Cide kick II. Had good spraying weather with todays high only reaching 70°F and the winds were light in the morning. There is also no rain in the forecast until Wednesday. Hoping for a good kill. I was nervous and anxious leading up to the spray, mostly because it was starting to look nice and was getting compliments from the neighbors and family. In the back of your mind you think "Do I really want to do this!" or "What am i about to do!"... Now that it is over and I am committed, it is a big relief and can't wait until next weekend when I get to scalp it down. 6 weeks until planned seed down. Lots of little stuff to do, but staying on track!


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## Togo

I cannot wait to see the finished product! :thumbup:


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## g-man

You killed that!!! Why? It look so good.

Do you have a clever answer to your neighbors asking what happen? Ie well water had a bacteria.


----------



## Redtenchu

This must be the most nerve racking step!


----------



## Pete1313

Togo said:


> I cannot wait to see the finished product! :thumbup:


Thanks for following! I'm excited!


g-man said:


> You killed that!!! Why? It look so good.
> 
> Do you have a clever answer to your neighbors asking what happen? Ie well water had a bacteria.


A few neighbors already know my plans, but for the rest I should think of something in the next week. Maybe tell each one something different. :lol:


Redtenchu said:


> This must be the most nerve racking step!


It is a tough step because now it is real. Everything before was just talk until you spray the glyphosate. No turning back now! I think the most nerve racking step is the time from seed down to first mow, however. You feel so helpless during that step and can't do much but wait and worry...


----------



## ericgautier

Definitely no turning back now!


----------



## LIgrass

Good luck Pete! Don't even worry about it. You got this. :thumbup:


----------



## wardconnor

I like this thread


----------



## J_nick

Pete1313 said:


> .... I think the most nerve racking step is the time from seed down to first mow, however. You feel so helpless during that step and can't do much but wait and worry...


Yep, this is where I'm at right now. Just sitting around twiddling my thumbs wondering if or when the grass will start growing :search: I was really nervous waiting for germination. I'm glad that part is over with but now I'm ready to mow some grass!

From the pictures that NoMix looks really good and stripes well too. I can't wait to see what some high quality grass will do. Hope you have a good kill :thumbsup:


----------



## social port

Your skill, knowledge, and commitment to this renovation is an inspiration. Thanks for posting your amazing work.


----------



## Pete1313

ericgautier said:


> Definitely no turning back now!


Yep!


LIgrass said:


> Good luck Pete! Don't even worry about it. You got this. :thumbup:


Thanks!


wardconnor said:


> I like this thread


Thanks, I like your turf!


J_nick said:


> Yep, this is where I'm at right now. Just sitting around twiddling my thumbs wondering if or when the grass will start growing :search: I was really nervous waiting for germination. I'm glad that part is over with but now I'm ready to mow some grass!
> 
> From the pictures that NoMix looks really good and stripes well too. I can't wait to see what some high quality grass will do. Hope you have a good kill :thumbsup:


The phase you are in is definitely the hardest part. All the work you do on a reno, and then after seed down all you can do is wait.


social port said:


> Your skill, knowledge, and commitment to this renovation is an inspiration. Thanks for posting your amazing work.


Thanks for the kind words!


----------



## ales_gantar

Please post details on the time you irrigate and howmuvh, and what the day temperatures are.
I love this thread! &#127881;


----------



## Pete1313

ales_gantar said:


> Please post details on the time you irrigate and howmuvh, and what the day temperatures are.
> I love this thread! 🎉


Thanks! Since the irrigation has been finished, I have been playing around with it quite a bit. I am still adjusting and getting it dialed in. So i dont have a set water schedule yet. At my old house I would water 2x a week and the amount I would water would be based off of 
evapotranspiration(ET) rates. Ill post how much I plan to water at seed down as it gets closer.


----------



## dfw_pilot

Pete1313 said:


> I sprayed the first 5ft in of the property lines with the backpack sprayer.


I can't find the TLF sticker on the sprayer.


----------



## ales_gantar

I'd love to see how much you add to daily evaporation.



Pete1313 said:


> ales_gantar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please post details on the time you irrigate and howmuvh, and what the day temperatures are.
> I love this thread! 🎉
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! Since the irrigation has been finished, I have been playing around with it quite a bit. I am still adjusting and getting it dialed in. So i dont have a set water schedule yet. At my old house I would water 2x a week and the amount I would water would be based off of
> evapotranspiration(ET) rates. Ill post how much I plan to water at seed down as it gets closer.
Click to expand...


----------



## Pete1313

dfw_pilot said:


> I can't find the TLF sticker on the sprayer.


I need to get some of those! I think one would look reel nice on the triplex!


----------



## dfw_pilot

Agree, lol!


----------



## Pete1313

Scalp day yesterday! Lawn is losing its color, so I dusted off the grass catchers and set the cutting heads to a 3/4" HOC and the groomers were set at 9/16"(25% below HOC)
















Here are some pics of the lawn when I was done cutting and removing clippings at 3/4". The triplex handled all the slopes well. I feel confident that I will be able to get the Bewitched maintained at this height going into winter because of how well it cut it at this height. In the last 2 pics, if you look close, you can see some lighter patches of grass. That is some of the fine fescue that was spread all thru the yard. 












































After round 1 was done, I dropped the HOC for the second round of scalping. I set the HOC to 7/16" HOC(.438") and the groomers at 5/16"(28.6% below HOC). I put the front roller at position 5 at this HOC so the bedknife would not be as aggressive and the behind center distance would be less to try and minimize any scalping. I double cut at this height with the grass catchers on and now its all clean and low. Once again I was amazed at how a large unleveled yard handled the low HOC. I'm glad it's cut down this low as it will make the seed bed prep/smoothing process alot more effective.












































I made a couple of big piles of clippings that will need to get burned. During some of the thicker parts I had to remove and empty the baskets after only cutting for 250ft.


----------



## ericgautier

You are making this look way too easy. LOL. Nice job!


----------



## Pete1313

ericgautier said:


> You are making this look way too easy. LOL. Nice job!


Thanks EG! This part was easy though. I got to drive around on the triplex all day. It was fun! :thumbsup:


----------



## wardconnor

It looks fun... But I know how much work your doing.

What is your plan for leveling other than your custom design drag. Are you still going to core and drag or are you going to topdress and drag? If topdress... With what? That huge pile in your drive?


----------



## social port

How would you handle adding topsoil to a property that large (38ksqft, right?)? I was recently quoted a price of 5,000 dollars for 5,000 sq ft worth of topsoil. Seems like an insurmountable burden.


----------



## J_nick

Pete's next equipment purchase:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Chd86l9ErMo


----------



## Pete1313

social port said:


> How would you handle adding topsoil to a property that large (38ksqft, right?)?


With something like J_nick posted. But that is not in the plans.



J_nick said:


> Pete's next equipment purchase:


I wish!



wardconnor said:


> It looks fun... But I know how much work your doing.
> 
> What is your plan for leveling other than your custom design drag. Are you still going to core and drag or are you going to topdress and drag? If topdress... With what? That huge pile in your drive?


Thanks... No topdressing just coring and dragging to help smooth. I should be getting my new aerator tines from the metal shop later this week. I will hopefully get to test out the process next weekend.


----------



## ales_gantar

Question: it may sound silly to ask, but I always try to get the seeds covered with soil ore something to kerp it moist during the germination period. How are you handling this part of seeding procedure?


----------



## Pete1313

ales_gantar said:


> Question: it may sound silly to ask, but I always try to get the seeds covered with soil ore something to kerp it moist during the germination period. How are you handling this part of seeding procedure?


There is no such thing as a silly question ales_gantar, and your question is one I put some thought into because of the size of the yard and the slopes. In the past i used peat moss to cover the seeds and keep them moist. With 38k sq ft, I didn't want to hand apply peat, and even if I was able to source a topdresser to apply the peat I worry that it wouldn't hold the slopes, especially during a hard rain. I even thought about using peat moss and then going over some of the worst slopes with a tackifier like GrassDaddy used on his reno. A couple of my steepest hills are around 15°(1:4 slope), but the whole property is on a hill that has a slope of at least 6°(1:10 slope). Because of the slope and the size of the yard I decided to go with this product that my local ConservFS stocks.
http://www.profileevs.com/products/hydraulic-mulch/seed-aide-covergrow
















It is 1.6X the cost of peat moss when applied per 1000sq ft but it will make applying it alot easier. This product will flow thru a spreader and also has a tackifier already in it. It is also labeled to use on slopes as steep as a 1:3 slope. I would need 1900lbs to cover 38k sq ft at the 50lb/k rate, but I ended up getting 2040lbs so I would have some extra to apply to the steepest slopes. I am also kicking around the idea of slit seeding some of the steepest slopes before applying the CoverGrow, but haven't decided whether or not I will do that yet.


----------



## kolbasz

this is an awesome thread, but I fear it becoming less awesome when photobucket pulls your pictures...unless of course you want to pay them 399...


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks for the headsup! :thumbup: 
I'll switch them over to postimage.


----------



## kolbasz

postimage is an option but not one I like. especially when people dont turn off ads.

imgur is nice but i heard they have their own financial issues since a restructure and competing service from reddit


----------



## dfw_pilot

kolbasz said:


> postimage is an option but not one I like. especially when people dont turn off ads.


I use Adblock Plus. I haven't seen an ad on postimage in years.


----------



## kolbasz

Probably just on phone then


----------



## Pete1313

Received this email from photobucket today



Apparently, you need to upgrade to their plus 500 plan to do 3rd party hosting. That plan cost $400 a year. Wow! It's a shame because I really liked their app for uploading images. Oh well.. The first page of pics on this thread have been changed over to postimage already.


----------



## chrismar

Pete1313 said:


> Received this email from photobucket today
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, you need to upgrade to their plus 500 plan to do 3rd party hosting. That plan cost $400 a year. Wow! It's a shame because I really liked their app for uploading images. Oh well.. The first page of pics on this thread have been changed over to postimage already.


Got the same from them. Ugh. I'm hesitant to use postimg since they nearly went belly up last year. I'm thinking I'll try imgur, though there are rumors they might be doing something similar to Photobucket soon.


----------



## dfw_pilot

kolbasz said:


> Probably just on phone then


Yeah, I use AdBlock on the desktops and Crystal for Safari on the iPhone. There are lots of good options for mobile too.

Sorry about that, Pete. Hopefully the switch to PostImage won't be too big a hassle. There is a chance they might change in the future as well, but for now, I'm taking that risk with them. PostImage enjoys the ad revenue (that I block on my devices because they are a bit too racy for me) but if they leave the game, I'm sure someone else will fill the void.

Thanks again for sharing your photos.


----------



## Ware

Pete1313 said:


> Oh well.. The first page of pics on this thread have been changed over to postimage already.


Good thing TLF allows post edits - I hear not all lawn forums do.


----------



## Pete1313

Ware said:


> Good thing TLF allows post edits - I hear not all lawn forums do.


 :thumbsup:


----------



## ericgautier

Ware said:


> Good thing TLF allows post edits - I hear not all lawn forums do.


 :lol:


----------



## Pete1313

When going thru a renovation, get things started early and always allow more time then you think you need to get things done. Things will come up and things will take longer then expected...

Started off the weekend trying to accomplish all the small things that needed to get taken care of. I burned the grass clippings from the scalp.









Filled and leveled the hole from the old fire pit.









Did some other small miscellaneous leveling.









Removed and leveled a couple old decaying tree stumps.























Dug up a valve box in the center of the yard that was sunk down almost 2" below grade to reset and level. Found the threaded part of the pvc pipes had a small leak and needed to be tightened/repaired. Backfilled with gravel and now level.





































Spent the rest of the afternoon and evening on Saturday OCD'ing about sprinkler spray patterns and coverage. Changed out a few nozzles, reset and leveled a few heads, and tweaked almost all of the spray patterns in hopes that no seed of grass would go without water.

I was checking and adjusting a sprinkler head that was the farthest away from the house and was wondering why the pressure all of a sudden got really weak. 2 minutes later, I heard a yell "Pete, something is leaking in the basement!" My wife said she heard fast knocking and then the pvc pipe that was in the basement broke at the threads. Luckily we were home and only 20 gallons or so of water got in the basement.









I should of known better. I have heard the loud knocking coming from the 20+ year old pressure vacuum breaker a few times before and knew It would be a problem. I also know that pvc inside a house is not a good idea. Cleaned everything up Saturday night and knew I had a project now planned for sunday.

I got all my supplies early in the morning and when I got home, I started digging out the old PVB backflow preventer.









Picture of the old valve removed. A PVB should not be installed in the ground, and should be higher then the highest sprinkler head.









Made the main coming thru the house out of copper, put the new backflow preventer above ground and transitioned it to pvc once it was back in the ground.
















While I was waiting for the pvc solvent to set, I moved a couple sprinkler heads in the back of the yard, that after killing it, saw that they were not close enough to the property line. I then pressurized the system, checked for leaks, and backfilled.









I ended the evening sitting on the deck, downing a few cold ones, and watching my sprinkler system water my dead grass! I still have a small list of things that need to be accomplished before the first round of seed bed prep that is planned for July 29-30th and the seed down that is planned for August 5-13th. I won't be able to work on the project for the next 2 weekends however, but feel that I am still on pace to get everything done on time. I am glad I got started really early this year. I feel alittle pinched for time now that seed down is getting close, but confident that everything is still on track!


----------



## J_nick

I'm always impressed every time you post Pete. That's some nice looking copper work :thumbsup: keep up the good work


----------



## Redtenchu

J_nick said:


> I'm always impressed every time you post Pete. That's some nice looking copper work :thumbsup: keep up the good work


+1


----------



## wardconnor

It's obvious that Petes not messing around.


----------



## g-man

Awesome work and pictures.

FYI, these connections allow changing valves without having to cut/glue pvc in the future. http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Dura-Sprinkler-Valve-Manifold-Parts-p/329-007.htm


----------



## kolbasz

Your right pete, more time is way better. I remember when I renoed the front yard. Always sprayed way late and there was never enough time to wait and do a second pass on everything that was missed. So, 100% this is the best advice for anyone wanting to reno, add time, like a month more than you think. Especially for killing, this is probably the longest as you have no control over the speed of death.


----------



## GrassDaddy

This is fun to watch


----------



## Pete1313

Redtenchu said:


> J_nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm always impressed every time you post Pete. That's some nice looking copper work :thumbsup: keep up the good work
> 
> 
> 
> +1
Click to expand...

Thanks guys! I have some experience sweating pipe.



wardconnor said:


> It's obvious that Petes not messing around.


  no I'm not! I'm trying to get all the things accomplished and perfected that I have control over before seed down, because after that there will be some variables that I will have no control over.



g-man said:


> Awesome work and pictures.
> 
> FYI, these connections allow changing valves without having to cut/glue pvc in the future. http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Dura-Sprinkler-Valve-Manifold-Parts-p/329-007.htm


Thanks! I have seen those before, but what would be the fun in that..  they are a good idea though, and if it wasn't a "spur of the moment" leak repair i would have considered upgrading to them.



kolbasz said:


> Your right pete, more time is way better. I remember when I renoed the front yard. Always sprayed way late and there was never enough time to wait and do a second pass on everything that was missed. So, 100% this is the best advice for anyone wanting to reno, add time, like a month more than you think. Especially for killing, this is probably the longest as you have no control over the speed of death.


Agreed! :thumbsup:



GrassDaddy said:


> This is fun to watch


Thanks for watching! It has been a fun project!


----------



## Pete1313

Looks like I am all set until july 29th when I am planning the first round of smoothing and seed bed prep. I finished adjusting the last 2 sprinkler zones, swapped out a few more nozzles, and lowered a couple sprinkler heads. I am now starting to go thru a sprinkler audit and will keep adjusting and tweaking the sprinkler system until seed down. These guys will work great. Thanks Mightyquinn! :thumbsup:









I also got my larger aerator tines done. The new tines were made on a laser tube cutter out of 7/8" tubing with a .065" wall. I then cut an angle on them and then sharpened with a grinder. They will pull out a 3/4" core instead of a 1/2" core with the old tines. This will allow me to reach 10% affected surface area in half of the time. Here are some pics of the tines.

Old - laser cut - angled - sharpened
















Difference in diameter
















Old vs. New mounted









New mounted on aerator


----------



## Redtenchu

Nice Upgrade!


----------



## Mightyquinn

Thanks for the shout out Pete! Those gauges are inexpensive and very nice, I bought some extra ones too!!

You are really going ALL IN on this Reno, love what you did with the aerator!!


----------



## Pete1313

Redtenchu said:


> Nice Upgrade!





Mightyquinn said:


> Thanks for the shout out Pete! Those gauges are inexpensive and very nice, I bought some extra ones too!!
> 
> You are really going ALL IN on this Reno, love what you did with the aerator!!


Thanks guys! The tines were a fun project, and will help me accomplish what I want to do with the aerator faster.

Woke up early and checked the gauges that I set up last night. They worked great!


----------



## wardconnor

This is fantastic Pete.


----------



## Pete1313

wardconnor said:


> This is fantastic Pete.


Thanks Ward!


----------



## ericgautier

Awesome stuff! Keep it up.


----------



## ales_gantar

Could you maybe do a video using the aerator? I was thinking to try and buy a add on for the roto tiller, but the aerators I saw all had a vertical stabbing motion, and a spring to eject the plug.


----------



## Pete1313

ericgautier said:


> Awesome stuff! Keep it up.


Thanks EG!



ales_gantar said:


> Could you maybe do a video using the aerator?


I will try and take a video of it in a couple weeks when I use it.


----------



## g-man

Pete, could you explain why do you use the aerator during a reno and why not use it now before seed down? Thanks


----------



## Pete1313

I would love to use it now, but the next chance I would have to use it is July 29th. The aerator, along with the drag set up I made, is to try and smooth out the yard before seed down. Based on how the drag setup performed when I backfilled the irrigation trenches, I believe it will work after aerating. It's called "Poor Man's Topdressing". Not every golf course and sportsfield has the budget to sand topdress and an alternative is to aerate and process the cores. The plan is to aerate to 10% affected surface area, which is aggressive for an existing lawn, but will be ok since I have no grass. The aerator pulls cores that are 4"x8" apart and with the new tines .750" in diameter and 3" deep. This setup will take me 7 trips around the yard to aerate to 10%, but is much better than 16x with the old tines. That 10% combined with 3" deep cores will bring enough soil to the surface to cover the whole lawn .3" deep(or roughly 35 cu yds for 38k sq ft lawn). Then once the moisture in the cores is to the point that it will crumble in my hands, I will take the drag set up and start breaking up the cores. Some of the soil will fall back in existing holes but will be ok since it is at a reduced bulk density. The rest should hopefully find their way into low spots and help smooth out the yard. Depending on how it works, I will incorporate a "Poor Man's Topdressing" into my maintenance plan in upcoming years (although at a reduced affected surface area). Worst case it doesn't work, I will have other options to prep and smooth the seedbed.


----------



## g-man

Great info and it makes sense. I really don't want to reno my lawn, but I do want to level it. My trying to come up with a plan, but nothing seems to make sense to me. My clay soil makes things harder too. I can fill low spots, but no clue about lowering the high spots. But you plan gave me an idea, I could hand aereate the high spots and collect the plugs.


----------



## pennstater2005

Geez, I have a little baby renovation compared to this  And I'm still a little scared :lol:


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> Geez, I have a little baby renovation compared to this  And I'm still a little scared :lol:


It doesn't matter the size of the reno, or how many you have done, it is still a nerve-racking, high anxiety time.

Although alittle late, welcome to TLF pennstater! Glad you found us, and I look forward to tracking your reno as well!

For a quick update, I am just about 2 weeks from seed-down. I have been out of town the past 2 weekends and dont have much new to report. The first round/attempt of leveling and seed bed prep is scheduled for this weekend. Lots of weeds are popping up as well and will require another blanket spray of glyphosate. Almost done with my sprinkler audit also. The yard is looking hideous right now! I bet the neighbors are questioning if I know what I am doing! I will post a more detailed update after this weekend.

Pics of weeds in the yard


----------



## pennstater2005

^
Thanks for the welcome! This is my first reno and I'm glad I only did a small section. Looking forward to your progress Pete.


----------



## Pete1313

*WARNING!"*
If you are not a fan of disturbing the soil, you may not want to see these pictures..

I did a little test run of my aerator and drag setup tonight to see how it would perform before this weekend and check to see if the soil moisture was just right. I was anxiously awaiting this step of the renovation to see how it would turn out and the results were exactly what I was hoping for. It loosened the soil, smoothed it out, and is going to make a great seedbed to plant into. Here are some pictures and I will get some more up after this weekend.

Cores of old, smaller aerator tine compared to larger, new tine.









Sample of cores pulled. Cores averaged 2" in depth so I will irrigate alittle tonight to try and get alittle deeper.









Test area where I made 7 passes, which calculates to an aggressive 10% affected surface area.
















After dragging test area. Holes filled up, low spots got smoothed and area looks almost ready to be seeded.


----------



## wardconnor

I'm a huge fan of dragging and dragging and dragging until its flat and smooth. Cores or no cores.

Can't drag enough in my eyes.

This is REALLY GOOD work IMO.


----------



## g-man

I'm jealous.


----------



## SGrabs33

HuGE cores, looks great!


----------



## social port

Yeah, I'm jealous too.


----------



## ales_gantar

Nice.
How much weight do you have to put on the areator ro penetrate the soil?


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks for the replies!



ales_gantar said:


> How much weight do you have to put on the areator ro penetrate the soil?


The weight limit on this JD model I believe is 250lbs(113kg). I ended up putting 358lbs(162kg) on and the aerator and the X590 seemed to handle it no proplem.


----------



## Ware




----------



## Pete1313

Haha. Thanks Ware!


----------



## Pete1313

Some pics from today. Half of the yard is just about ready for seed. Ran the sprinklers last night to soften it up alittle and then went over it with the aerator to break it up.
















Irrigating helped as I was now able to pull 3 inch cores as you can see from the paint worn off on the tines.









I then let the cores dry alittle and dragged them back in. In total I went over the area about 12x in different directions and the end result turned out very well.





































This area is about as good as I think I am going to get it and as long as there is no major rain events between now and seed down I wont prep this side anymore.


----------



## Redtenchu

Impressive work as always, Well done sir!


----------



## ericgautier

Ware said:


>


^^^ this!!! :thumbup:


----------



## GrassDaddy

wow that looks great. If I could go back I probably would have aerated and leveled. I was too afraid of disturbing the soil. Oh well..


----------



## wardconnor

Holy crap. I like


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Did the second half of the yard today. Here are a couple pics when I was finished.






























Here is a pic of the aerator with 358lbs loaded on it. I tried loading more weight on it(508lbs) but I started having problems keeping the tractor from sliding on the slopes.









The drag mat is still holding up well, and got the job done!









Only had minor damage to 1 sprinkler head and no damage to the invisible dog fence. Ran The sprinklers afterwards to settle down the dust. I'm keeping an eye on the local weather forecasts and temp/precip long range forecasts from the CPC. Finalizing what needs to be done before, during, and after seed down. If all goes as planned, seed down could be as early as next weekend. I'm getting really excited. Reel mower withdrawals are real! It has been 4 weeks since I last used the triplex, and will be at least a month before I get to cut with it again.


----------



## g-man

^ I wonder if the lab is thinking: Where is all the grass?


----------



## Pete1313

g-man said:


> ^ I wonder if the lab is thinking: Where is all the grass?


That's funny! Staring at those trees is her favorite thing. The dog fence is just inside those trees so she won't go in there, but she waits in hopes a bunny will jump out.


----------



## g-man

That's a lab. Mine likes to sit at the top flight of stairs in the patio to sunbathe and watch the backyard. He is old now and busted his knee cap (not fixable).


----------



## Pete1313

Made a quick solution to keep seed and topdressing out of the mulch beds
















Spyker makes a deflector kit but I didn't want to spend the $50 since I would not use it for anything else I would normally apply. Tested the cardboard with some potassium. It worked surprisingly well.

I'm watching the forecast for this weekend. Right now it's saying 30-40% chance for showers. I will watch that closely and hopefully I can plant this weekend.


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> Made a quick solution to keep seed and topdressing out of the mulch beds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spyker makes a deflector kit but I didn't want to spend the $50 since I would not use it for anything else I would normally apply. Tested the cardboard with some potassium. It worked surprisingly well.
> 
> I'm watching the forecast for this weekend. Right now it's saying 30-40% chance for showers. I will watch that closely and hopefully I can plant this weekend.


That's a heck of an idea Pete! I might steal that one 😁


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> That's a heck of an idea Pete! I might steal that one 😁


Feel free, I believe i stole the idea from someone else! Haha! Worked well and cost nothing.


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a heck of an idea Pete! I might steal that one 😁
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free, I believe i stole the idea from someone else! Haha! Worked well and cost nothing.
Click to expand...

That's the kind of stuff I think about after I'm already done!!


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> That's the kind of stuff I think about after I'm already done!!


I've been down that road, having seedlings come up a foot or more into the mulch beds. Roundup takes care of it, but it would better if I can minimize some of it.


----------



## j4c11

Woah, I've been dreaming about a spreader with a heavy duty gearbox like that. What model Spyker is that?


----------



## Pete1313

j4c11 said:


> Woah, I've been dreaming about a spreader with a heavy duty gearbox like that. What model Spyker is that?


It is the 120lb capacity spyker Pro-Series. All the Pro-Series come with that same heavy duty gearbox with lifetime warranty on the metal gears. I also like that the gearbox and axle bearings are greaseable. They are pricy, but top quality. They range from $250 for the 50lb capacity powdercoat version, to $500 for the stainless 120lb capacity.

http://www.spyker.com/pro-series/


----------



## kolbasz

someone needs one of these...

http://www.bakervehicle.com/used/specs/TC-1437.html


----------



## Pete1313

Haha. I wish!


----------



## kolbasz

Oh come on, it's only 4k


----------



## Pete1313

And would need a new tractor to pull it!


----------



## kolbasz

Pete1313 said:


> And would need a new tractor to pull it!


Ok, good point


----------



## Pete1313

Trimmed a few trees this evening that had canopies that were getting alittle low. My oldest daughter helped out. I think she does it just to drive the tractor!






























Found one sprinkler that wasn't rotating yesterday. Went to look for a spare and realized I only had one left and it was partially damaged. :shock: Ordered 4 more so I could have a few just in case and they will be here tomorrow. Running out of stuff to do. Tentative plan is to do the final round of glyphosate on Friday evening and then seed the whole yard on Saturday... Weather permitting.


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> Tentative plan is to do the final round of glyphosate on Friday evening and then seed the whole yard on Saturday... Weather permitting.


That always blows my mind that you can glypho something and seed basically immediately after with no ill effect to the seed. Looks like it's all coming together nicely.


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tentative plan is to do the final round of glyphosate on Friday evening and then seed the whole yard on Saturday... Weather permitting.
> 
> 
> 
> That always blows my mind that you can glypho something and seed basically immediately after with no ill effect to the seed. Looks like it's all coming together nicely.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Kill what's left at the last possible moment and then mesotrione the next day to try and combat any undesirables as much as possible.

Rain coming in today. Hopefully no major washouts so I won't need to re-prep the seedbed. No rain for Friday or Saturday and cooler below average temps forecast for the Midwest long range.


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> Hopefully no major washouts so I won't need to re-prep the seedbed.


This is probably what I'm fearing the most. Investing money into seed and peat moss only to have it get washed away :evil:


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully no major washouts so I won't need to re-prep the seedbed.
> 
> 
> 
> This is probably what I'm fearing the most. Investing money into seed and peat moss only to have it get washed away :evil:
Click to expand...

Washouts are definitely a fear of mine. Especially with all the slopes. That is one reason why i am trying a seed topdressing with a tackifier. There is not much you can do but hope mother nature is on your side. My last reno had significant washout but still turned out fine. The KBG will fill in, and you can always re-level washout spots.

The rain stayed away today. Seed bed is still how I want it for seeding so I will not need to re-drag.


----------



## pennstater2005

^
You're giving me hope Pete! So how much seed does it take to cover an area that size?


----------



## Pete1313

I am aiming to put down 2lbs/k. So 76lbs to cover 38k. I have 100lbs of Bewitched on hand in case i need some extra. This rate is for 100% KBG. If you use a mix, you will need to put down more seed.

http://safesportsfields.cals.cornell.edu/seeding-rates


----------



## wardconnor

^ I like.

Winning


----------



## Pete1313

Final blanket spray of glyphosate went down yesterday. Today is the day! Seed down day! More pics and details when I am done. Time to get to work!


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> Final blanket spray of glyphosate went down yesterday. Today is the day! Seed down day! More pics and details when I am done. Time to get to work!


Good luck Pete :thumbup:


----------



## ales_gantar

We are cheering for you.
&#127881;&#127881;&#127881;


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks! All done, cleaned up and I am beat! Pics and a write up tomorrow!


----------



## g-man

Let the drinking begin.


----------



## wardconnor

ales_gantar said:


> We are cheering for you.
> 🎉🎉🎉


What he said


----------



## ericgautier

Pete1313 said:


> Final blanket spray of glyphosate went down yesterday. Today is the day! Seed down day! More pics and details when I am done. Time to get to work!





Pete1313 said:


> Thanks! All done, cleaned up and I am beat! Pics and a write up tomorrow!


That's a looooooong day. :thumbup:


----------



## Pete1313

Seed down 8/5-
I knew it was going to be a long day so I got going as soon as the sun came up. First, I watered the whole yard the night before. Then to start things off, I started mixing up my seed.









I used 80lbs(slightly more than 2lbs/k) of sod quality, certified Bewitched that I got from SSS.






























And mixed in 24oz of soil moist seed coating









I then mixed some kelp and humic acid with 200lbs of milorganite









And then added the seed mix to the milorganite mix and applied to the yard









I then sprayed 3.5oz of Mesotrione in 35gal of water(4oz/acre rate)









After I finished spraying I rolled the yard, then applied 75lbs of MAP(11-52-0) and 600lbs of Milorganite. In total I put down 1.2lbs/k of nitrogen and 1.4 lbs/k of phosphorus. I then ran the Cover Grow pellets thru the spreader, cleaned up, and let the watering begin!

Here are some pics of the yard this morning after one round of watering.












































Mulch pellets have not expanded and broken down yet. They are just starting to split









Today I am spending time adjusting a few sprinklers by the street, watching the sprinkler run times so the soil stays moist, relaxing, and enjoying all the hard work I put in to get to the point I am today.


----------



## pennstater2005

Ton of hard work and looks awesome!


----------



## Redtenchu




----------



## Ware

Very cool. It's always great to see a plan come together. :thumbup:


----------



## Fronta1

Epic. Just epic. Any reason you choose the map over tsp or starter?


----------



## Fronta1

And how did you spread the seed/fertilize mix?


----------



## RockyMtnLawnNut

Wow! A lot of work and a well deserved rest...until you start crawling around looking for seedlings with your flashlight that is


----------



## wardconnor

&#128076;


----------



## J_nick

Looks good Pete :thumbup: love the greenish blue hue to the dirt. I think you'll need a Tenacity sized bottle of Advil for the next few days


----------



## kolbasz

600# Milorganite......


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks for all the replies!



Fronta1 said:


> Epic. Just epic. Any reason you choose the map over tsp or starter?


I can't get TSP from where I get my fertilizer for some reason, but they do carry MAP. I like Milorganite for seed down N and why I didn't use a starter.



Fronta1 said:


> And how did you spread the seed/fertilize mix?


I used my broadcast spreader. I made a deflector/blocker that I posted about earlier and went around all the edges. I then removed the deflector and broadcasted it in 2 passes in different directions.



RockyMtnLawnNut said:


> Wow! A lot of work and a well deserved rest...until you start crawling around looking for seedlings with your flashlight that is


first flashlight check is planned for Friday night!  If this reno is similar to my last, the very first sprouts should be popping up by then.



J_nick said:


> Looks good Pete :thumbup: love the greenish blue hue to the dirt. I think you'll need a Tenacity sized bottle of Advil for the next few days


thanks! The pellets are swelling up and covering more area after a days worth of watering. Definately took some Advil Saturday night!



kolbasz said:


> 600# Milorganite......


I like Milorganite at seed down, but my back and wallet are in agreement, urea is a better choice for nitrogen needs on a larger yard.

Spent all day yesterday playing with and watching the irrigation. I think I got it where I want it now. I had trouble keeping zones 6 and 7 from drying out between cycles especially by the street. Changed out some nozzles for bigger ones and added some more time to them. I also took some time away from some areas that are staying wet longer. The irrigation is set to run 5 full cycles at 9, 11:30, 2, 4:30, and 7. I am in the hardest part of a reno now... The waiting/worry game!


----------



## Roosterchest

Pete1313 said:


> I like Milorganite at seed down, but my back and wallet are in agreement, urea is a better choice for nitrogen needs on a larger yard.


I'm quite ignorant about Urea, but I've seen posts about using it on new grass. Is there any information about using Urea vs a normal starter Fertilizer?


----------



## kolbasz

Pete, you will be fine. Your prep and N rate will have you going in no time.

I think the biggest thing for you is the long germination time for KBG. When I did 50/50 KBG/Rye, I get return after a week. I know pretty early on how things are going to go. With KBG it is much longer and surely more agonizing, but I am convinced for you that we will soon be very jealous.

The question I have is how long do you wait after it is growing to mow with the reels to keep it low and tight


----------



## Pete1313

Roosterchest said:


> I'm quite ignorant about Urea, but I've seen posts about using it on new grass. Is there any information about using Urea vs a normal starter Fertilizer?


Starter fertilizer has nitrogen, phosphorus, and depending on the brand, mesotrione(a weed preventer ok at seed down). Urea is just straight 46-0-0 fast release nitrogen. It's cheap(around $15 for 50lbs) but you need to be careful not to over apply. Some phosphorus is good at seed down and is why I used MAP 11-52-0. I also used Milorganite for the nitrogen, and like it at seed down since part of it is a slow release nitrogen that will last in the soil until I can walk on it again and apply some more nitrogen. I also sprayed mesotrione, but starter fertilizer would be a good option and "all-in-one" option at seed down if wanted. My soil has adequate levels of phosphorus based on my soil test, so looking forward into fall I will only apply straight nitrogen from urea.


----------



## Roosterchest

Thanks, Pete. My soil tests show I need Phosphorus so I think I'll stick with the starter fert.


----------



## Pete1313

kolbasz said:


> I think the biggest thing for you is the long germination time for KBG...With KBG it is much longer and surely more agonizing


agreed. The waiting game is tough!



kolbasz said:


> The question I have is how long do you wait after it is growing to mow with the reels to keep it low and tight


I plan on mowing with the reels right out of the gate. I plan on making its first cut at around 1" and keeping there until I get passed the 2nd round of mesotrione and then I will use some generic primo maxx and work it down to 3/4" or so.



Roosterchest said:


> Thanks, Pete. My soil tests show I need Phosphorus so I think I'll stick with the starter fert.


Sounds like a good plan! :thumbsup:


----------



## ericgautier

Amazing stuff!

Now time to go on vacation. Hehe.


----------



## kolbasz

1" is good,makes more sense. I was going to say, I waited till over 2" with a spiny mower which is way different. I knew there is no way you could wait that long to hit it with the reels.


----------



## pennstater2005

Hey Pete, can I ask where you got your soil moist seed coating from?


----------



## Pete1313

Here. Price went up a few dollars. I used 8oz for around 26lbs of seed, about double the rate they advertise.


----------



## pennstater2005

^ Thanks!


----------



## Roosterchest

Lucky I got my Soil Moist Seed Coat a week ago. Looks like supply is basically gone online.


----------



## Pete1313

Roosterchest said:


> Lucky I got my Soil Moist Seed Coat a week ago. Looks like supply is basically gone online.


Even the link I just posted is out of stock now. Hopefully Pennstater got what he needed. I bought mine back in May, it was cheaper then too.


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> Roosterchest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lucky I got my Soil Moist Seed Coat a week ago. Looks like supply is basically gone online.
> 
> 
> 
> Even the link I just posted is out of stock now. Hopefully Pennstater got what he needed. I bought mine back in May, it was cheaper then too.
Click to expand...

It was out of stock. I ended up buying it through EH Griffiths. It was 11.50 for a pound. They get you with shipping but the a salesman said it would be here Monday at the latest.

Got my seed there too.


----------



## Roosterchest

pennstater2005 said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roosterchest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lucky I got my Soil Moist Seed Coat a week ago. Looks like supply is basically gone online.
> 
> 
> 
> Even the link I just posted is out of stock now. Hopefully Pennstater got what he needed. I bought mine back in May, it was cheaper then too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was out of stock. I ended up buying it through EH Griffiths. It was 11.50 for a pound. They get you with shipping but the a salesman said it would be here Monday at the latest.
> 
> Got my seed there too.
Click to expand...

Seems like EH Griffiths is a good spot. Can you pick up locally? I see they are in Pittsburgh


----------



## pennstater2005

Yes. Pick up is free. Shipping was a little much but it ships UPS so I know I'll get it quickly.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Pete1313 said:


> Here. Price went up a few dollars. I used 8oz for around 26lbs of seed, about double the rate they advertise.


Pete, where'd you get your mulch pellets?


----------



## Pete1313

Colonel K0rn said:


> Pete, where'd you get your mulch pellets?


ConservFS. I think they are just in the northern Illinois area. I'm sure you can find a similar product at other places that would supply products to landscapers.


----------



## Pete1313

Radar watching.. :roll:


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> Radar watching.. :roll:


You got some heavy stuff coming?


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Radar watching.. :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> You got some heavy stuff coming?
Click to expand...

Storms went went just north and south but not a drop here. There were some really heavy downpours when driving on the highway on my way home from work. Hazards on, people pulled over, and couldnt see the car in front kind of rains. :beer: to Mother Nature and believing she is a fan of close mowed KBG! 

Nothing else to report. Still waiting for the first seedlings to emerge...


----------



## wardconnor

Cheers to close mowed KBG.


----------



## g-man

I would not mind some rain in Indy. I think the line of storm will break apart and we won't get any rain.


----------



## Pete1313

g-man said:


> I would not mind some rain in Indy. I think the line of storm will break apart and we won't get any rain.


Still some out there. I hope it makes it to you!


----------



## J_nick

Mother Nature was very kind to my renovation. Only .15" of rain from final grade to 3 weeks after seeding. By the time it rained heavy again I had already mowed a few times. 0 washouts. Good luck my friend


----------



## ericgautier

Pete1313 said:


> Storms went went just north and south but not a drop here. There were some really heavy downpours when driving on the highway on my way home from work. Hazards on, people pulled over, and couldnt see the car in front kind of rains. :beer: to Mother Nature and believing she is a fan of close mowed KBG!
> 
> Nothing else to report. Still waiting for the first seedlings to emerge...


Good to hear the storms passed you!


----------



## social port

wardconnor said:


> Cheers to close mowed KBG.


And to Mother Nature.


----------



## Pete1313

J_nick said:


> Mother Nature was very kind to my renovation. Only .15" of rain from final grade to 3 weeks after seeding. By the time it rained heavy again I had already mowed a few times. 0 washouts. Good luck my friend


I hope she is just as kind to me!



ericgautier said:


> Good to hear the storms passed you!


Thanks EG. Next chance of rain is almost a week away. As long as the heavy/nasty stuff stays away for another week I will be happy.


----------



## Pete1313

Just like my last bewitched reno, the first babies are waking up on day 6! :yahoo:










Let the nightly flashlight checks begin!


----------



## Redtenchu

Wow, congrats!


----------



## CH3NO2

Time to change your grass type in your profile! Congrats!


----------



## Pete1313

CH3NO2 said:


> Time to change your grass type in your profile! Congrats!


Thanks for the reminder! :thumbsup:


----------



## wardconnor

Nice Pete. Won't be long until you get to use that triplex again. I bet you've been jonesing to get back in the saddle of that beast.

I love that green tinge you get with the new seedlings. So rewarding


----------



## J_nick

:dancenana: wooohooo germination, grow babies grow


----------



## ales_gantar

&#127881;


----------



## Pete1313

wardconnor said:


> Nice Pete. Won't be long until you get to use that triplex again. I bet you've been jonesing to get back in the saddle of that beast.


It's been 6 weeks since I last used it, and almost 3 more before I use it again... But who's counting?? :wave: I plan on getting the triplex ready to make that first cut, so today I will get to spend some time with it.


----------



## ales_gantar

I am never sure how soon I can walk on young grass and when to start mowing. And when to stop watering evey day.


----------



## Pete1313

Felt good to spend some time on the mowers today. First off, the right front reel motor was starting to leak and needed to be resealed. I resealed the left front earlier this year. I guess it will only be a matter of time before I do the rear one as well. They leak from the seals that the splined shaft goes through, but the only way to get those seals is to get the whole kit.








2 seals are separated by a washer and a hidden snap ring








John Deere Packaging 








Bag inside says made in Italy








Gaskets and seals in the kit








Inside of motor
















I cleaned up the deck on the X590 and will bring the blades to work and sharpen them. I will use the deck to mulch fall leaves in between mowing with the triplex.
















I then gave the X590 and 2500B some much needed baths.
















I backlapped the cutting units, faced the bedknives, and set the bedknife-to-reel clearance to .001"(light contact). Still really sharp








And cuts paper beautifully.





I also checked the front roller parallel-to-bedknife and set the HOC to 1.125". I am going to do the first couple cuts at this height and then work it down from there.


----------



## wardconnor

You just secretly have a man crush on your machines.

Good work there


----------



## g-man

I think you should be able to get those orings online. They should have some numbers molded.


----------



## Pete1313

wardconnor said:


> You just secretly have a man crush on your machines.
> 
> Good work there


No doubt, I do this partly because of the machines!


g-man said:


> I think you should be able to get those orings online. They should have some numbers molded.


you're probably right. Too bad I wasn't paying attention to the numbers. It is probably a good idea to replace all the gaskets based on the hours on the machine.


----------



## Spammage

Any signs of life yet Pete?

Edit - oops! Just realized I missed some posts from the previous page of the thread. Congrats!! I can't wait to see how this all comes together for you.


----------



## ericgautier

Pete1313 said:


> Just like my last bewitched reno, the first babies are waking up on day 6! :yahoo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let the nightly flashlight checks begin!


Woohoo! Congrats!


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks spammage and EricG! More and more seedlings popping up. Chances of rain 4 days next week. Hopefully it's beneficial rain and no washouts!


----------



## kolbasz

ales_gantar said:


> I am never sure how soon I can walk on young grass and when to start mowing. And when to stop watering evey day.


I have read that with kbg its about 3 weeks after if germinates you can dial it back. 3 weeks to come in and 3 weeks after.


----------



## ales_gantar

So for PRG I guess it's 1 week plus 1 week?


kolbasz said:


> ales_gantar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am never sure how soon I can walk on young grass and when to start mowing. And when to stop watering evey day.
> 
> 
> 
> I have read that with kbg its about 3 weeks after if germinates you can dial it back. 3 weeks to come in and 3 weeks after.
Click to expand...


----------



## Pete1313

kolbasz said:


> ales_gantar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am never sure how soon I can walk on young grass and when to start mowing. And when to stop watering evey day.
> 
> 
> 
> I have read that with kbg its about 3 weeks after if germinates you can dial it back. 3 weeks to come in and 3 weeks after.
Click to expand...

I would agree with this. I plan on 3-5 waterings per day until it is time to mow(day 25-30 after seed down). Then 1x daily, then cut back to once every 2 days 45 days after seed down. That is not carved in stone and is best to feel out how the reno is doing and make adjustments as necessary.

I feel like I have been observing and adjusting the irrigation run times and amounts on a daily bases. I started with soil that was on the dry side by the time seed day was over. I watered last week 5x a day and the amount was equal to about 150% of ET. This week, now that the soil is moist and how I want it, I plan on having that number closer to 110% ET and am watering with 3 fixed start times during the day (11:30, 2:00, 4:30) with manual waterings in the morning(8-9) and evening(8-9). The morning/evening watering is only based on need, and if everything looks good, I skip that watering.

Last week I used 48704 gallons of water! :shock: good thing I'm on a well!


----------



## Roosterchest

Pete1313 said:


> Last week I used 48704 gallons of water! :shock: good thing I'm on a well!


DO you know how healthy the well is? I'm also on a well but I always act like theres only a 5 gallon bucket down there.


----------



## Pete1313

Roosterchest said:


> DO you know how healthy the well is? I'm also on a well but I always act like theres only a 5 gallon bucket down there.


The well is in good shape. I had tests done last year, it has a 30gpm recovery, and ended up upgrading the pump.
Click Here For More Info


----------



## g-man

Pete1313 said:


> Last week I used 48704 gallons of water! :shock: good thing I'm on a well!


That could fill a large pool.


----------



## Pete1313

g-man said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last week I used 48704 gallons of water! :shock: good thing I'm on a well!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That could fill a large pool.
Click to expand...

It could fill my pool 2x. It is impressive, but sickening at the same time. I do plan on being stingy/efficient with watering as much as possible once it is established.


----------



## Pete1313

10 days after seed down and seedlings are just starting to become visible from a distance. More and more popping up everyday. Bewitched sure does take its time. Flashlight checks are becoming more encouraging. Rain is forecast for tomorrow night. There is an impressive amount of worm casts appearing all over the yard.


----------



## wardconnor

Pete1313 said:


>


Such a great picture.


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> 10 days after seed down and seedlings are just starting to become visible from a distance. More and more popping up everyday. Bewitched sure does take its time. Flashlight checks are becoming more encouraging. Rain is forecast for tomorrow night. There is an impressive amount of worm casts appearing all over the yard.


Here she comes! Great work :thumbup:


----------



## ericgautier

Looking good! :thumbup:


----------



## J_nick

Dang Pete, it's looking shaggy over there. About time to give her a snip don't ya think :mrgreen: congrats on the babies


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks for the replies!



J_nick said:


> Dang Pete, it's looking shaggy over there. About time to give her a snip don't ya think :mrgreen: congrats on the babies


I wish! That picture is really zoomed in. They might be 3/8" tall.

I had some rain come thru last night. Once again the reno missed a direct hit. 1.5" of rain came down 30 miles north, but I had only .25" in the rain gauge, and it was from a few gentle showers. Today is a hard day to figure out when to resume watering. Clouds and high humidity = low ET rates. I keep calling the wife and having her check the conditions since I'm at work. So far she reports no dry spots...


----------



## social port

Pete1313 said:


> Once again the reno missed a direct hit. 1.5" of rain came down 30 miles north, but I had only .25" in the rain gauge, and it was from a few gentle showers.


You deserve the luck. I'm looking forward to next month's pictures.



Pete1313 said:


> I keep calling the wife and having her check the conditions since I'm at work. So far she reports no dry spots...


Something tells me that you've inadvertently made a lawn expert out of her.


----------



## Brianje

Well I'm glad I found this! I actually googled your aty username and found this gem of a post.

Seeing Petes original aty thread gave me the confidence that I can also grow a low cut kbg myself.

Cannot wait to see your lawn in the spring Pete, gonna be awesome. I've also seriously considered selling my 2653a and getting a 2500b. I can see a 1000 lb difference in weight being beneficial. And I would also get to pick your brain every time I had an issue 

Your mower is looking awesome as well. I'm sure you know that machine front to back seeing all the work you've done to it.


----------



## Ware

Brianje said:


> Well I'm glad I found this! I actually googled your aty username and found this gem of a post.
> 
> Seeing Petes original aty thread gave me the confidence that I can also grow a low cut kbg myself.
> 
> Cannot wait to see your lawn in the spring Pete, gonna be awesome. I've also seriously considered selling my 2653a and getting a 2500b. I can see a 1000 lb difference in weight being beneficial. And I would also get to pick your brain every time I had an issue
> 
> Your mower is looking awesome as well. I'm sure you know that machine front to back seeing all the work you've done to it.


Welcome - glad you found us! There is lots of of low-cut KBG love here. :thumbup:


----------



## Pete1313

Brianje said:


> Well I'm glad I found this! I actually googled your aty username and found this gem of a post.
> 
> Seeing Petes original aty thread gave me the confidence that I can also grow a low cut kbg myself.
> 
> Cannot wait to see your lawn in the spring Pete, gonna be awesome. I've also seriously considered selling my 2653a and getting a 2500b. I can see a 1000 lb difference in weight being beneficial. And I would also get to pick your brain every time I had an issue
> 
> Your mower is looking awesome as well. I'm sure you know that machine front to back seeing all the work you've done to it.


It is about time you found TLF Brian! Welcome!

The 1000lb difference is nice, but sometimes I wish I had a 2653. I had to do some work to get the 2500B to handle the slopes the way I wanted and I feel a 2653 would have been better equipt from the start. Only problem is it wouldn't fit thru one tight spot on my yard.. and they are always so expensive at auction. That being said, a 2500b would be a perfect fit for your flat yard. I look forward to following the progress and recovery of your yard here!.. Another "Reel Mowed KBG" member joins TLF! :clapping:


----------



## Pete1313

Brianje said:


> I've also seriously considered selling my 2653a and getting a 2500b. I can see a 1000 lb difference in weight being beneficial. And I would also get to pick your brain every time I had an issue
> 
> Your mower is looking awesome as well. I'm sure you know that machine front to back seeing all the work you've done to it.


 there are alot of knowledgable Reel owners on TLF, and we are all happy to answer any questions you might have about your machine. Your mower and mine have some similarities. If you have any reel questions, feel free to post in the equipment forum. And for specific John Deere questions, post Here


----------



## g-man

^ I thought pete1313 account was also banned. I saw your post this am and was surprised.

Pete, what is the update on germination ? Mowing it tomorrow?


----------



## Pete1313

g-man said:


> ^ I thought pete1313 account was also banned. I saw your post this am and was surprised.
> 
> Pete, what is the update on germination ? Mowing it tomorrow?


No, not banned.

Germination is good. Fairly even. A couple small areas that are not being hit by sprinklers. Mainly the corner areas by the street that have 90° sprinklers. It might be a combination of low GPM nozzles in the corners and losses from wind and daytime watering.

She is definitely in the "pout" stage. I will try and get some close-ups of some of the early sprouts having their 2nd and possibly 3rd leaves already. They are still short at about .5" or less. Tomorrow is day 15 since seed down, and although I'm not sure how well the seedlings will photograph from my typical 2nd floor shots, I will take those to use for reference as well as some more ground level ones and post them tomorrow. If i had to guess from my last reno, I am still about 10-12 days away from its first mow.

Here is a picture I took today when I got home. You can see the germination and all the worm casts if you look close. I think i have a few worms in this soil.  I can't wait to get the triplex out there and flatten all those mounds.


----------



## Brianje

Looking nice ! Do you plan on using the triplex for the first cut? Or are you gonna spend 4 hours pushing a fiskars around ?


----------



## Pete1313

I am going to use the triplex. I believe you used yours for the first cut as well? I am planning its first cut at 1.125", so when the seedlings reach 1.75" tall. I would like to know your thoughts, as well if you don't mind sharing how you handled your first mows, and at what HOC(I believe you were at 1.5"?). When you started working lower, winter height, and any other observations you made from yours last year.


----------



## Pete1313

social port said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once again the reno missed a direct hit. 1.5" of rain came down 30 miles north, but I had only .25" in the rain gauge, and it was from a few gentle showers.
> 
> 
> 
> You deserve the luck. I'm looking forward to next month's pictures.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Another potential 1"+ of rain is forecast for Monday night. After that, it looks quiet all the way thru next weekend with temps in the mid 70's and sunshine. At this point a heavy rain wouldn't be terrible, but I'll hope Mother Nature is on my side one more time!











social port said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I keep calling the wife and having her check the conditions since I'm at work. So far she reports no dry spots...
> 
> 
> 
> Something tells me that you've inadvertently made a lawn expert out of her.
Click to expand...

No expert yet, but she approaching apprentice status!  she does the sprays in the mulch beds and mulches up leaves in the fall with the lawn tractor, but she is not quite ready for tank mixing apps for the lawn, and maybe in a decade she might get to use the triplex... Maybe


----------



## Brianje

Pete1313 said:


> I am going to use the triplex. I believe you used yours for the first cut as well? I am planning its first cut at 1.125", so when the seedlings reach 1.75" tall. I would like to know your thoughts, as well if you don't mind sharing how you handled your first mows, and at what HOC(I believe you were at 1.5"?). When you started working lower, winter height, and any other observations you made from yours last year.


I did use a fiskars for the first cut or 2 I believe. However, with your mower set up I believe your plan seems perfect. And think about golf course fairway construction: they obviously bring heavy equipment on for their first mows as well. My new bewitched seemed to deal with the 2k weight just fine. Turning sharply was a different story. Looks like you kept your back tire smooth which is good. I actually replaced my back tire for a smooth one .

I would really have to look back at my posts as I don't remember when I worked down to an inch. I'm a very impatient man so I'm sure I didn't wait long. I assume you can work down to 3/4 before the fall regimen?

I kept it at 1 inch for the winter.


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks for the feedback! Back tire has tread. I still have the smooth ones, but am not sure I can get up the one hill with a smooth tire, especially on soft new turf. I could swap them over at work. We will see. I do have a mowing plan for the first couple of mows that will limit any full turnarounds on the seedlings. Instead I will be turning on neighbors yards, and on the street.


----------



## Brianje

Pete1313 said:


> Thanks for the feedback! Back tire has tread. I still have the smooth ones, but am not sure I can get up the one hill with a smooth tire, especially on soft new turf. I could swap them over at work. We will see. I do have a mowing plan for the first couple of mows that will limit any full turnarounds on the seedlings. Instead I will be turning on neighbors yards, and on the street.


Well that's good. I'm sure treaded tires on that mower will be fine. I'm going to replace my front tires with smooth ones soon as well. I have no hills so it's no issue for me.


----------



## Pete1313

Here are the day 15 pics. In them it is very hard to see much germination, but it's there, and the pics are needed to show how slow Bewitched is to get going.













































Here are some ground level ones that are alittle more encouraging.






























Here is one that shows some of the seedlings are getting their second leaf.









For reference, here are a couple day 15 pics from my bewitched reno at my old house 3 years ago.
















So that's about it. Nothing to do but wait, worry, and drink...


----------



## pennstater2005

Those ground my level pictures really show the growth! It's coming along nicely.


----------



## Fronta1

Thanks for your detailed posts and sharing your ideas with everyone. Really enjoying following along. Germ looks nice and even.


----------



## wardconnor

&#128077;


----------



## kolbasz

Pete1313 said:


> So that's about it. Nothing to do but wait, worry, and drink...


I am no expert, as we all learned here: http://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=870

But, I do like to offer support. Try not to worry. When I re-did my yard a few years ago, I did it in 3 phases. Dont ask why, but call it man power and ability. If I did it again, I would do it at once, I think...

My front is a rough 6k, I did 25% in the spring, then 25% in the fall that year. then, I went a year and did the last 50%. Not the most normal plan, but this is how it went down and whatever, lets not talk about it.

Long story short, every time I started with dirt, as soon as germination started I was excited, then got nervous. Mainly because it looked like what you have, patches of nice started growth with others still bare. Remember I have 50/50 so timing is different. I was at about 7 days when I hit this stage. Then what seemed like overnight, boom, everything was green. Sure, there were still small patches, but most everything came in exactly as expected.

I guess my point it, dont worry, just wait and drink. Your prep and process was way more elaborate than mine and if mine turned out OK, then yours will surely be fine too.

I'm here for moral support. :beer:


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks for the replies!



kolbasz said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So that's about it. Nothing to do but wait, worry, and drink...
> 
> 
> 
> I am no expert, as we all learned here: http://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=870
> 
> But, I do like to offer support. Try not to worry. When I re-did my yard a few years ago, I did it in 3 phases. Dont ask why, but call it man power and ability. If I did it again, I would do it at once, I think...
> 
> My front is a rough 6k, I did 25% in the spring, then 25% in the fall that year. then, I went a year and did the last 50%. Not the most normal plan, but this is how it went down and whatever, lets not talk about it.
> 
> Long story short, every time I started with dirt, as soon as germination started I was excited, then got nervous. Mainly because it looked like what you have, patches of nice started growth with others still bare. Remember I have 50/50 so timing is different. I was at about 7 days when I hit this stage. Then what seemed like overnight, boom, everything was green. Sure, there were still small patches, but most everything came in exactly as expected.
> 
> I guess my point it, dont worry, just wait and drink. Your prep and process was way more elaborate than mine and if mine turned out OK, then yours will surely be fine too.
> 
> I'm here for moral support. :beer:
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing! It doesn't matter if it is your first time renovating or fifth, this is the toughest time and KBG is the slowest.



kolbasz said:


> ...I guess my point it, dont worry, just wait and drink.


Great advice for renovators in my position! :thumbsup:


----------



## Pete1313

Mother Nature was kind again last night. The area was forecast to get over an inch of rain but all the downpours went just south and I only had maybe .1" in the rain gauge, and It looks like she will give me some great grass growing weather the rest of the week as well! :beer: Grow babies grow!


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## pennstater2005

^ Perfect! Similar weather predicted for western PA!


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## ericgautier

When do you plan the first feeding?


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> ^ Perfect! Similar weather predicted for western PA!


I have had luck on my side this reno. No washouts or heavy downpours and none in the forecast. Only around .3" of rain since seed down.


ericgautier said:


> When do you plan the first feeding?


I am using my last Bewitched renovation as a guide, as I had good results then. According to my notes, I first fed it on day 29. It was the lawns 2nd cut. So if growth is comparable to that reno I would say after its 2nd cut, or around Labor Day weekend.


----------



## Pete1313

22 days since seed down and I'm still waiting, and the Bewitched is still pouting. There has been some new germination within the past few days in the spots that have been slow and the early sprouts are almost out of "sprout and pout".

Germination in the slow areas. Maybe 3/8" tall









Early sprouts are almost 2" tall









Since some of the spots are behind and some could almost use a cut, I have decided to change my game plan and do the first couple cuts at 1 7/16" HOC, and then drop it down after that. This should keep it from needing a mow until end of next week. 
The cutting units are so high I feel i could take them off-roading! 
















In the second picture next to the golf ball you can see the bedknife and it's aggressive attitude. This is one benefit to a floating head design like on this 2500B and would be the same on a 220E. On the higher HOC you can still keep the knife aggressive, where on a fixed unit like my old 220SL you would lose that knife angle and have some cut quality issues.

We had a good slow rain this morning totaling about .4", and on and off showers forecast for the next couple days. At this point I am welcoming any rain from mother nature and am going to start pulling back on the watering midweek after the showers are over. I need to be able to get on it next weekend to mow and give it it's first dose of urea. So I will move to 2x daily watering, and then 1x daily watering by next weekend.

Here are some ground pics comparing the slow germination progress from day 15 to day 22.

Day 15








Day 22









Day 15








Day 22









Day 15








Day 22









Day 15








Day 22









Day 15








Day 22


----------



## Roosterchest

Big difference in a week! Looking good.


----------



## pennstater2005

Such a big area! I wouldn't be brave enough for a KBG mono stand. It definitely is looking better each time you post pictures. Looking like it is really starting to come in now :thumbup:


----------



## ericgautier

Looking awesome Pete!


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## ken-n-nancy

That looks awesome -- showing so much potential already! The difference between day 15 and day 22 is fantastic!


----------



## g-man

You had awesome weather for a reno. I bit south and we are in a drought. It is looking really good.


----------



## wardconnor

Looks FANtastic!


----------



## J_nick

Looking good Pete. Can't wait to see some stripes next weekend!


----------



## jimmy

Looks great! I hope I have similar results!


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks for the replies! Don't let the pics fool you, there is still a long way to go, and alot of areas that will need to fill in. Although it is encouraging to see at least some germination in most places.



g-man said:


> You had awesome weather for a reno. I bit south and we are in a drought. It is looking really good.


It is unbelievable that there has not been any repair work needed as of yet. The heat and heavy downpours have so far stayed away.



J_nick said:


> Looking good Pete. Can't wait to see some stripes next weekend!


Hopefully it will be time to mow next weekend. Going out to the garage and just staring at the triplex is not cutting it anymore! It has been 2 months since I last used it. Although I did spend 5 min on it today adjusting the HOC, taking a few pics,.. and oh yeah i topped it off with gas.. :roll: There may not be many pretty stripes the first couple mows as I am going to focus on minimizing turn-arounds on the yard.


----------



## RockyMtnLawnNut

Looks like you've got nice even coverage. I'm sure it will fill in nicely. Staying tuned for the first cut!


----------



## Pete1313

I had to share this pic of Mother Nature doing her thing! Sixties, showers, and sunshine.. The seedlings are soaking it in!


----------



## pennstater2005

From that picture it really looks like it is filling in! Oh, nice rainbow &#128513;


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Pete1313 said:


> I had to share this pic of Mother Nature doing her thing! Sixties, showers, and sunshine.. The seedlings are soaking it in!


Nice pic! Wonderfully framed through the car window!


----------



## kolbasz

I'm sure the neighbors are happy that there is finally some green in your yard. Their property value can start going back up again...


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> From that picture it really looks like it is filling in! Oh, nice rainbow 😁





ken-n-nancy said:


> Nice pic! Wonderfully framed through the car window!


Thanks! I need to give credit to my wife as she took the pic when I was on my way home.



kolbasz said:


> I'm sure the neighbors are happy that there is finally some green in your yard. Their property value can start going back up again...


Haha! I'm sure they were all worried for a bit. My one neighbor said she was giving directions to someone in town to get to her house and the person's response was "Oh, you live across from the people that accidentally killed their whole yard!" I had to smile at that one and my neighbor explained to them what I was doing. I mean c'mon... who accidentally kills every single blade of grass in their whole yard!..


----------



## jimmy

Pete1313 said:


> Haha! I'm sure they were all worried for a bit. My one neighbor said she was giving directions to someone in town to get to her house and the person's response was "Oh, you live across from the people that accidentally killed their whole yard!" I had to smile at that one and my neighbor explained to them what I was doing. I mean c'mon... who accidentally kills every single blade of grass in their whole yard!..


I got a lot of similar reactions from people recently. Once I explain to them what I'm doing they get it (they still think I'm crazy, but at least not stupid :thumbup: ), but there were a lot of confused neighbors out there...


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Pete1313 said:


> Haha! I'm sure they were all worried for a bit. My one neighbor said she was giving directions to someone in town to get to her house and the person's response was "Oh, you live across from the people that accidentally killed their whole yard!"


What makes this particularly funny is that it's not entirely clear which is worse -- being the person that accidentally killed their whole yard, or being the person that is crazy enough to intentionally kill off one of the best looking lawns on the street!


----------



## ericgautier

k-n-n :wave: good to see more familiar sn's. Glad you are here!


----------



## Pete1313

ericgautier said:


> k-n-n :wave: good to see more familiar sn's. Glad you are here!


Agreed! Good to see you here K&N!


----------



## FuzzeWuzze

Curious what the deal is with dragging the cores before seeding?

Everyone always says to aerate and then seed because the seed goes in the holes, to me that always seemed ridiculous because you dont plant seed 3 inches deep. So dragging makes sense in that respect.

I ask because with a new kid coming any day im trying to figure out what things i can do now like aerating if its still going to be too hot to seed for a few more weeks here in Oregon.


----------



## kolbasz

Pete, I know we talked timing and the wait, I had to patch a small area in the yard. 50/50 seed went down Sunday.

https://imgur.com/a/FO4A8


----------



## Pete1313

FuzzeWuzze said:


> Curious what the deal is with dragging the cores before seeding?
> 
> Everyone always says to aerate and then seed because the seed goes in the holes, to me that always seemed ridiculous because you dont plant seed 3 inches deep. So dragging makes sense in that respect.
> 
> I ask because with a new kid coming any day im trying to figure out what things i can do now like aerating if its still going to be too hot to seed for a few more weeks here in Oregon.


I used coring and dragging as a process to help me smooth the seedbed as well as get it ready for seed. It brought alot of soil to the surface that I was then able to drag around to fill low spots. I don't think aerating and then just dropping seed would be an effective way to overseed. If I were overseeding, I would use a verticutter or slice seeder to get seed soil contact.



kolbasz said:


> Pete, I know we talked timing and the wait, I had to patch a small area in the yard. 50/50 seed went down Sunday.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/FO4A8


I see germination already at 5 days, nice! :thumbsup: Is it 50/50 KBG/Rye?


----------



## kolbasz

Pete1313 said:


> I see germination already at 5 days, nice! :thumbsup: Is it 50/50 KBG/Rye?


Yes


----------



## Pete1313

Today marks 30 days since seed down. I ended up giving its first cut yesterday at day 29. I debated on what HOC to give its first cut at, and after adjusting the HOC up earlier, I decided to put my big boy pants on and cut it at 1.125". All the worm casts got flattened out as well. When I was done, I gave it its first feeding of urea and then watered it in. Look J-nick, some faint stripes!









Here are some progression pics from day 15 to say 30

Day 15








Day 22








Day 30









Day 15








Day 22








Day 30









Day 15








Day 22








Day 30









Day 15








Day 22








Day30









Day 15








Day 22








Day 30


----------



## pennstater2005

Looks awesome Pete. 1.125"!! I feel like I would be scalping again


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## J_nick

Man I've been checking all weekend to see if you gave it a cut. Long shadows on the lawn = not the best time of day for striping but I definitely can see them :thumbup: keep on keepin' on my friend it's looking good


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks guys. It has a long way to go, but felt good to get out there with the triplex and finally be able to do something. Now that I'm mowing and fertilizing, the next update at day 45 should show some nice progress. I have also cut back on the watering and am watering 1x daily at about 100% ref ET.

For comparison, here are a couple pics from day 30 of my bewitched reno at my last house. This reno seems alittle behind the last one, but not by much.


----------



## Spammage

Looking great Pete!


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## wardconnor

It won't be long...Good work


----------



## g-man

I'm just wondering how that old house Reno looks like now. Full of crabgrass or a 1 hoc?


----------



## Pete1313

It is doing ok. It is a low input lawn, no water, under fertilized, and a high 3" HOC. It has some burn out by the street, but still has a slightly darker color then the neighbors. Here are some drive-by pics from August 7th.


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## ericgautier

Looking good Pete!

The old lawn looks pretty good as well.


----------



## RockyMtnLawnNut

Looking great Pete! It's cool to see those pics of the progression. Also, the old lawn is still looking pretty darned good for low input.


----------



## Pete1313

Growin' and mowin'. Snapped some pics for a day 38 update. Dropped another dose of urea on Sunday. I will continue weekly spoon feedings until mid October. Starting to look respectable from street level, but is still really thin and has a long way to go. I will do some 2nd floor Arial shots to show its density on the day 45 update. Post-m Tenacity app is planned for Sunday. Still mowing at 1.125", but I think I will drop it to 1.0" by Saturday. I'm currently mowing every 3 days and I think I could stretch it to 4 but I like to get on the triplex. I have been watering 1x a day at dusk at just over 100% ET since day 30 and am hoping to pull it back to every other day by day 45. There are 2 areas that will need to be addressed in spring as the water pooled and as a result there was no germination. Both areas total about 200 sq ft or so and I will probably transplant into those areas but will give a more detailed update on them at day 60. I feel like it is on cruise control. Let it grow, give it a mow, some N, and work the water to deeper and less frequent.

Here are some progression pics from day 22 to day 38

Day 22








Day 30








Day 38









Day 22








Day 30








Day 38









Day 22








Day 30








Day 38









Day 22








Day 30








Day 38









Day 22








Day 30








Day 38


----------



## monty

Wow is the color really that deeper, or is it just the lighting?


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## Sinclair

monty said:


> Wow is the color really that deeper, or is it just the lighting?


Lighting. Check the colour of his house, truck, and birch tree.


----------



## Sinclair

It is definitely taller and thicker though.


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## pennstater2005

Looks awesome. I feel you on the bare areas. I tried a little repair but will be waiting until spring as well.


----------



## Pete1313

Sinclair said:


> monty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow is the color really that deeper, or is it just the lighting?
> 
> 
> 
> Lighting. Check the colour of his house, truck, and birch tree.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Mostly lighting, but I think I noticed it get a notch darker. Color has a long way to go, but looks cool as every other lawn is dormant in the area as we have maybe gotten .5" of rain in the last 7 weeks.



Sinclair said:


> It is definitely taller and thicker though.


Pics can be deceiving, it is roughly the same height in day 30 and day 38 pics (1 day after a mow) but is just starting to thicken up now that it is getting past sprout and pout and starting to tiller.



pennstater2005 said:


> Looks awesome. I feel you on the bare areas. I tried a little repair but will be waiting until spring as well.


Thanks! It is a marathon, not a sprint. There will always be some spots that will need attention and will be thin. The best thing to do now(especially with KBG) is just let it grow and fill in. Then in spring decide if they are small enough to fill in on their own, or if they need to have some transplants plugged in, or if you need to spring seed.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

Pete, that's looking great! The progress is fantastic! Thanks so much for providing the series of photos from the same locations at different times to show progress.

In the first set of photos, in the Day 38 image there appears to be a "ring" of thin grass around the triple-trunked tree. Any idea why the ring is there? Is that some sort of track from your mower? Something else?



Pete1313 said:


> Day 38


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks ken-n-nancy! I think the ring is from the mower as the area around a tree will see 2-3x the traffic of the rest of the lawn. I noticed it alittle last year even with the old lawn, but was less noticeable during times when the grass was healthier and actively growing. I think when it becomes established, it will be less noticeable. Also the 2500B has an offset tire design to minimize what is called triplex ring so if I mow around the trees clockwise one time and then counter the next, it should minimize that. If I remember to alternate the direction that is.

It is possible that competition from the tree roots, shade, poor germination, and just young weak grass is contributing to the issue as you can kind of see a ring in day 22 pics. And that would be before I started mowing it. Will need to keep an eye on it and see if it gets better or worse.


----------



## social port

Pete1313 said:


> Mostly lighting, but I think I noticed it get a notch darker


You must have that KBG "eye."  
It's looking great, man.


----------



## kolbasz

why is this on page 3? lets see that trampoline up high photo update


----------



## Sinclair

I agree - time for an update! :nod:


----------



## Pete1313

kolbasz said:


> why is this on page 3? lets see that trampoline up high photo update





Sinclair said:


> I agree - time for an update! :nod:


Patience..  
Day 45 is tomorrow. I will post some pictures then. I will post the pics from up high as well to show how it still has a ways to go to fill in.

For a small update, I blanket sprayed a post-m Tenacity app on Sunday morning at 4oz/acre rate, and then more urea on Sunday evening.


----------



## social port

kolbasz said:


> why is this on page 3? lets see that trampoline up high photo update


 :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

Looking forward to the 45 day update! Can't believe it's been 45 days.


----------



## Stegs

just got on this thread, and its impressive for sure!

Cant wait to see it now.

Im still shocked that you redid everything, lawn, soil, irrigation, and then got a JD reel mower to mow it with LOL

Your wife must be very understanding LMAO!


----------



## Pete1313

Stegs said:


> just got on this thread, and its impressive for sure!
> 
> Cant wait to see it now.
> 
> Im still shocked that you redid everything, lawn, soil, irrigation, and then got a JD reel mower to mow it with LOL
> 
> Your wife must be very understanding LMAO!


Thanks! It still has a long way to go, but is making progress every day.

My wife gets me. She knows if I wasn't tearing apart the lawn, it would be something else. I love projects!


----------



## J_nick

I'm glad to see everyone was getting as impatient as I was  looking forward to the update tomorrow!


----------



## Pete1313

J_nick said:


> I'm glad to see everyone was getting as impatient as I was  looking forward to the update tomorrow!


What the... I mean c'mon people! The last update was 6 days ago! :lol:



Pete1313 said:


> Growin' and mowin'. Snapped some pics for a day 38 update. Dropped another dose of urea on Sunday. I will continue weekly spoon feedings until mid October. Starting to look respectable from street level, but is still really thin and has a long way to go. I will do some 2nd floor Arial shots to show its density on the day 45 update. Post-m Tenacity app is planned for Sunday. Still mowing at 1.125", but I think I will drop it to 1.0" by Saturday. I'm currently mowing every 3 days and I think I could stretch it to 4 but I like to get on the triplex. I have been watering 1x a day at dusk at just over 100% ET since day 30 and am hoping to pull it back to every other day by day 45. There are 2 areas that will need to be addressed in spring as the water pooled and as a result there was no germination. Both areas total about 200 sq ft or so and I will probably transplant into those areas but will give a more detailed update on them at day 60. I feel like it is on cruise control. Let it grow, give it a mow, some N, and work the water to deeper and less frequent.
> 
> Here are some progression pics from day 22 to day 38
> 
> Day 22
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Day 30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Day 38
> 
> 
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> Day 22
> 
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> Day 30
> 
> 
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> Day 38
> 
> 
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> 
> Day 22
> 
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> 
> Day 30
> 
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> Day 38
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Day 22
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Day 30
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Day 38
> 
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> Day 22
> 
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> 
> Day 30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Day 38


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## ericgautier

Pete1313 said:


> What the... I mean c'mon people! The last update was 6 days ago! :lol:


The addiction is real... :lol:


----------



## g-man

I was hoping for a time lapse with daily images.


----------



## ales_gantar

Maybe a silly question, but why did you seed at 2 pounds per 1k? What would have happened if you seeded at 3,5? And you didn't use any sand to make the soil more ... load friendly? I am just wondering why.


----------



## LawnNerd

Pete1313 said:


> What the... I mean c'mon people! The last update was 6 days ago! :lol:


Well, This is TLF and we all have high expectations... :lol:


----------



## Stegs

g-man said:


> I was hoping for a time lapse with daily images.


Dude, that would be legit. A live cam mounted on his deck! we all could watch it live


----------



## Pete1313

ericgautier said:


> The addiction is real... :lol:





LawnNerd said:


> Well, This is TLF and we all have high expectations... :lol:


 :lol: agreed!



Stegs said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was hoping for a time lapse with daily images.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, that would be legit. A live cam mounted on his deck! we all could watch it live
Click to expand...

Those both sound like sweet ideas! To bad my production skills are lacking. 



ales_gantar said:


> Maybe a silly question, but why did you seed at 2 pounds per 1k? What would have happened if you seeded at 3,5? And you didn't use any sand to make the soil more ... load friendly? I am just wondering why.


No such thing as silly questions. 2 lbs/k is a decent rate for 100% KBG. KBG seed has roughly 1.4 million seeds per lb. In comparison perennial ryegrass has only 240,000 seeds. So less lbs is needed. KBG also spreads and fills in on its own so if it is alittle thin there is no worry, feed it and it will fill in. If you seed to heavy, you can have fungal issues with the seedlings being too dense. I would love to amend my soil and sand could be an option for that. I have a tough clay loam that is 30% clay, 49.2% silt, and 20.8% sand. Maybe I could have worked in some sand. In order for me to make a difference in those numbers however, I would have needed 2" of sand across the whole area (240 cubic yds) to bring the sand number up to 60% 4" deep. Even "only" 120 cubic yds would only bring the sand number up to 40% 4" deep. The amount of material needed to amend 38k sq ft is not practical for me so I am learning to deal with the soil I have and try and make it the best it can be.


----------



## monty

Come on, Pete, give the people what they want!


----------



## Pete1313

Snapped some pics for a day 45 update. First the good ones at ground level. Still watering 1X per day and now cutting at 1.0".

Day 30








Day 38








Day 45









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Day 38








Day 45









Day 30








Day 38








Day 45









Day 30








Day 38








Day 45









Day 30








Day 38








Day 45









Day 30








Day 45









Here are some progression pics from higher up. These pics don't lie, show how thin the KBG is in spots and how it has a long way to go yet.

Day 15








Day 30








Day 45









Day 15








Day 30








Day 45









Day 15








Day 30








Day 45









Day 15








Day 30








Day 45









Day 15








Day 30








Day 45









Day 15








Day 30








Day 45









All in all I am happy where it is at for day 45. There will be a couple spots that I will need to transplant in spring but most of the other areas will eventually fill in. A post-m Tenacity blanket spray was done 2 days ago at a rate of 4oz/acre and I am starting to see some whitening on some of the weeds but no bleaching of any KBG yet. I am planning a prodiamine app in a few weeks. There is another 30, maybe 40 good growing days left this year so I am hopeful that it will fill in some more by winter.

A few things to note, if you look closely at the aerial photos you can see some spots where the seed only germinated where I aerated, dispite starting with bare soil, no ground cover, and rolling the seed in. This is why I am a fan of disturbing the soil when renovating. If i had to do it over again, i would have ran a slice seeder/verticutter across the whole area after the aerate and drag and before seeding. Also, we have had very little rain over the last 2 months. All the neighbors yards are dormant. The lack of rain was nice in the beginning as I was worried about washout, but I think it is about time that mother nature helps out with some of the watering. This week has some unusually warm weather coming in for mid September. I am hoping for a cool off to follow. When that cool off happens I plan on backing off on the watering to every other day.


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## J_nick

Ohhhh yeah, you can definitely tells she's getting thicker :mrgreen: I love seeing the progression from day 30 to 45. Just think what another 15 days is going to do


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## g-man

The top view shows some trouble areas, but kbg takes a year to really be a lawn. Great progress, hopefully we get some rain soon.


----------



## Pete1313

J_nick said:


> Ohhhh yeah, you can definitely tells she's getting thicker :mrgreen: I love seeing the progression from day 30 to 45. Just think what another 15 days is going to do


Slow and steady. That's why I enjoy taking alot of pictures. With out them, sometimes it looks like the reno is going in reverse. With pics side-by-side, you can slowly see the progression.



g-man said:


> The top view shows some trouble areas, but kbg takes a year to really be a lawn. Great progress, hopefully we get some rain soon.


Agreed. KBG is really slow. That's why it is recommended not to be ready for play as sports turf for up to a year. 
http://safesportsfields.cals.cornell.edu/seeding-rates We both need to do a rain dance!


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## pennstater2005

Wow! Those 45 day photos are impressive!!! Awesome work :thumbup:


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## LIgrass

Awesome progress! In that last pic, is that the area where only the cores showed germination? I thought those were just tire marks. Do you think the reason for that could be the soil in the holes was looser and allowed deeper/better water penetration whereas the normal soil was more compact and ran off instead? If I had an area that big to reno I would definitely disturb the soil as well. Either way that should all fill in quickly.


----------



## Pete1313

LIgrass said:


> Awesome progress! In that last pic, is that the area where only the cores showed germination? I thought those were just tire marks. Do you think the reason for that could be the soil in the holes was looser and allowed deeper/better water penetration whereas the normal soil was more compact and ran off instead? If I had an area that big to reno I would definitely disturb the soil as well. Either way that should all fill in quickly.


That last pic showed it the best, but if you look closely, you can see it in other pics as well. The low spots don't have it as more loose soil was dragged into there but in the high spots where soil just filled the aeration holes it is pretty obvious. I believe it has to do with the looser soil in the holes. Definitely worth noting and if I did it again I would have disturbed it more. I agree, it should fill in over time.


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## ericgautier

Looks good! Nice job.


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## wardconnor

Looks like a success to me. Gonna look awesome when its thick and mowed low.


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## SNOWBOB11

I've only just recently joined the forum but I've been following along on your thread from before I joined. I just wanted to say you've done a great job and your lawn is looking really good. I'm in the midst of a bewitched mono reno on my lawn and your low mowing of your bewitched has got me thinking of picking up a greens mower to try and cut my lawn super low too  . I've got 3k I'm doing and I think that's a difficult undertaking. You've got 38k doing and you make it look easy. Anyways it's really fun following along and best of luck the rest of the way.


----------



## Pete1313

ericgautier said:


> Looks good! Nice job.





wardconnor said:


> Looks like a success to me. Gonna look awesome when its thick and mowed low.


Thanks EG and Ward



SNOWBOB11 said:


> I've only just recently joined the forum but I've been following along on your thread from before I joined. I just wanted to say you've done a great job and your lawn is looking really good. I'm in the midst of a bewitched mono reno on my lawn and your low mowing of your bewitched has got me thinking of picking up a greens mower to try and cut my lawn super low too  . I've got 3k I'm doing and I think that's a difficult undertaking. You've got 38k doing and you make it look easy. Anyways it's really fun following along and best of luck the rest of the way.


Thanks for following and welcome to TLF! I would love to see another member reel mowing KBG. :thumbsup: Best of luck on your reno as well! :beer:


----------



## kolbasz

its funny the difference between ground level and aerial. Neighbors stop over telling me the grass looks good, meanwhile all I am thinking is...it looks OK. let me bring you up to the bedroom and you will see it is not as great as you think.

overall it looks to me coming together pete.


----------



## J_nick

kolbasz said:


> ...it looks OK. let me bring you up to the bedroom and you will see it is not as great as you think.


 :shock: we still talking lawns here :lol:


----------



## pennstater2005

J_nick said:


> kolbasz said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...it looks OK. let me bring you up to the bedroom and you will see it is not as great as you think.
> 
> 
> 
> :shock: we still talking lawns here :lol:
Click to expand...

 :laugh:


----------



## Pete1313

J_nick said:


> kolbasz said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...it looks OK. let me bring you up to the bedroom and you will see it is not as great as you think.
> 
> 
> 
> :shock: we still talking lawns here :lol:
Click to expand...

Ahahaha! :rofl:



kolbasz said:


> its funny the difference between ground level and aerial. Overall it looks to me coming together pete.


Thanks! Yes, the you can't cheat the aerial photos. It has a long way to go.


----------



## Pete1313

I can already hear the neighbors whispering in the shadows... "What did he do to his lawn now?" "Is he killing it again?" Good thing I told one neighbor what was going to happen so I have a witness that I meant to bleach my lawn. Today is day 47 and 4 days since the post-m Tenacity app and am starting to see the first bleaching on the new KBG.




























And the weeds are really lighting up. Only difference is they won't recover like the KBG will.


----------



## Pete1313

For comparison, here is what it looked like at its worst on my last renovation.


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## ken-n-nancy

Looking good!


----------



## Pete1313

Snapped some pics for a day 52 update. The grass is getting its color back from the Tenacity bleaching but the weeds are not. You can see how important I think the second Tenacity app is. Most of the weeds are crabgrass and broadleafs, but i have found and pulled a couple bleached annua plants. All the weeds were just starting to germinate and were hard to see before the Tenacity. This app will clear out these weeds, but the Tenacity that made it thru the open canopy and to the the soil will act as a pre-m and hopefully keep any other weeds away until I can get some prodiamine down in a couple weeks.


















Here are the progression pics from the usual spots. If you look close, you can see spots that are still bleached near the trees. The Tenacity app is doing a good job of telling me where I over apply when I spray. I will need to adjust my spray pattern or change it up when I start spraying other things such as primo so I don't keep overdosing the same spots.
Day 38








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Day 52









Day 38








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Day 52









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Day 52









Day 38








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Day 52









Day 38








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Day 52









It is hard to tell from these pics, but it is starting to really take off. I was worried about the heat wave(6 of the last 7 days were over 90°F) but I stayed strong, kept watering only 1x daily at night and the young grass seemed to love it. I am going to pull back on the watering to every other day now as the daytime highs are dropping to the low 70's starting tomorrow. I feel the grass is ready for a light primo/FAS app and am planning that for this weekend and a light prodiamine app the following weekend. I am also still feeding it light urea apps every week.


----------



## wardconnor

Absolutely fantastic. Beautiful Pete.


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## HomerGuy

Wow....looks great. If my reno turns out half as good as yours I will be a happy man.


----------



## g-man

There is something wrong with the new pictures. The red pickup is not there.

Are you hand pulling the poa annual since they are easy to spot?


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks for the replies! Red pickup is in the garage as I finally got around to washing it.  I am hand pulling any annua when I see it. The Tenacity should take care of the other weeds. So far I have found and removed a few poa annua plants.


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## ericgautier

Looking good!


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## pennstater2005

Looking better with every update!


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## OutdoorEnvy

That's filling in nicely. Well done!


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## Pete1313

Thanks for the replies! Today is day 56. I am watering every other day now and because I did not water last night, I was able to mow first thing in the morning. One benefit to a reel mower is that it cuts really well with dew on the grass. I dropped the HOC down to 7/8" and will probably bring it down to 3/4" before the year is done. Pics are from 9:15 this morning after i was done mowing.

















I then gave the lawn it's first dose of Primo and FAS. It was a light dose at .3 oz/M of Primo, 3 oz/M of FS, and 2.55 oz/M of AS. Finished off with another app of urea and cleaned up. I will post a more thorough update at day 60 showing the good, as well as the spots that need some work. It has a long way to go, but for the first time today I stood back, admired it, and told myself I might actually pull this off!


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## ericgautier

B-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l!!!!


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## SNOWBOB11

Sweet!!!


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## Spammage

WOW! :shock:

That looks so nice Pete!!


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## wardconnor

Looks really nice Pete.


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## pennstater2005

Can't believe your stripes are already looking that nice!!!


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## GrassFarmer

what is the primo and FAS stuff?


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## J_nick

GrassFarmer said:


> what is the primo and FAS stuff?


Primo is a plant growth regulator (PGR)

FAS is sprayable iron.


----------



## wardconnor

GrassFarmer said:


> what is the primo and FAS stuff?


Im sure Pete will chime in but.... This is the stuff Dreams are made of.

Fas is liquid iron that gives the turf a dark green color. Awesome stuff

Primo is a plant growth regulator. It tricks (not sure this is the right term) the turf in to focusing on roots and lateral growth and kind of limits the top growth thus limiting the frequency of mowing. Even more awesome stuff.


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## HomerGuy

Looks amazing Pete.

Maybe I missed this, but how much Urea have you been putting down?


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks for the replies!



pennstater2005 said:


> Can't believe your stripes are already looking that nice!!!


Thanks! They are getting better now that the grass is filling in.



GrassFarmer said:


> what is the primo and FAS stuff?





J_nick said:


> Primo is a plant growth regulator (PGR)
> 
> FAS is sprayable iron.





wardconnor said:


> Im sure Pete will chime in but.... This is the stuff Dreams are made of.
> 
> Fas is liquid iron that gives the turf a dark green color. Awesome stuff
> 
> Primo is a plant growth regulator. It tricks (not sure this is the right term) the turf in to focusing on roots and lateral growth and kind of limits the top growth thus limiting the frequency of mowing. Even more awesome stuff.


These guys did a good job explaining. It is some impressive stuff :thumbsup: Here is a list of some of Primo Maxx' s Benefits. In addition to those, there was some research from OSU saying that fall applications increased spring green up.
All About PGRs
"At OSU, the effects of spring green-up from fall TE applications on Kentucky bluegrass during August and September resulted in significantly faster spring green-up the following year, and the earlier green-up did not cause excessive top growth.

Sports turf managers with early spring sports like lacrosse and baseball may want to investigate using fall applications of TE in conjunction with a late-season fertilizer application to maximize green-up the following year."



HomerGuy said:


> Looks amazing Pete.
> 
> Maybe I missed this, but how much Urea have you been putting down?


Thanks! I have been applying urea weekly since day 29 at a rates between .35-.46 lbs/M of Nitrogen(.75-1.0 lbs/M of urea)


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## zeus201

Amazing work!!!


----------



## ABC123

That looks amazing. Are you going to use a fungicide for prevention with such a large lawn?


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## Pete1313

ABC123 said:


> That looks amazing. Are you going to use a fungicide for prevention with such a large lawn?


Thanks! There are no plans for any the remainder of this year. I will most likely start serenade sprays to prevent any foliar issues next year, especially on a first year lawn. I will keep an eye out for anything that might pop up and act with a curative if needed. Other than that, proper watering, fertilizing, and mowing to limit any disease.


----------



## Pete1313

Snapped some pics for a day 60 update. It is making some small progress. I have not watered in 2 days. As a result it makes the bare areas obvious in the photos since the soil color is so light. It is starting to get some decent color, and is getting thicker but not filling in too much yet. The areas around the trees are taking a beating. I believe it is because there is more mower traffic around a tree, combined with a 1200lb mower and baby grass. I didn't have any issues with the old lawn around the trees, so I'm hopeful they will get better as the bewitched matures.

Day 30








Day 45








Day 60









Day 30








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Day 60









Day 30








Day 45








Day 60









Day 30








Day 45








Day 60









Day 30








Day 45








Day 60









Day 30








Day 45








Day 60









Here are some aerial pics showing the spots that still need to fill in.

Day 30








Day 45








Day 60









Day 30








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Day 60









Day 30








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Day 60









Day 30








Day 45








Day 60









Day 30








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Day 60









Day 30








Day 45








Day 60









Here are a couple pics showing the HOC and the density of the turf in the areas by the street. I was worried that I would have a hard time establishing by the street, but is turning out to be the best performing spots so far.


















Here are the 3 spots that will need to be addressed in spring by either transplanting or spring seeding. The other areas I believe will fill in on their own by next year.

On the side of the garage. Spots puddled and held water when watering multiple times a day









Left side of backyard trees. Caused by water draining out of zone 2 piping between cycles when doing multiple watering times in a day. Draining zone doesn't seem to be a problem now that watering are less frequent.









Area by right side of backyard trees near trampoline. Caused by sprinkler spraying low branches of tree and causing excessive puddles.









Looks like there will be some much needed rain tomorrow and Friday. It will be nice to finally give the sprinklers a break. I am also planning a prodiamine app this Sunday. Weeds are under control, with only a few scattered broadleafs.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Looking great! The stripes are really becoming more pronounced. I love the pic with the baseball on it. I could be looking at a picture of Wrigley Field or something.


----------



## wardconnor

Those pictures look good. Looks better than average. When I planted my lawn it took a year or 2 until is was completely filled in everywhere... who am I to talk though. You have a few of these under your belt.

The rings around the trees is what surprised me. I guess its to be expected with that heavy machine.


----------



## fusebox7

My reel mower arrives tomorrow. Boy am I excited to see the density when cutting (cleanly) that low. Between you and wardconnor, I may be also taking some leveling pointers from you guys  Fantastic job!


----------



## wardconnor

fusebox7 said:


> My reel mower arrives tomorrow.


 Awesome :banana:


----------



## Pete1313

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Looking great! The stripes are really becoming more pronounced. I love the pic with the baseball on it. I could be looking at a picture of Wrigley Field or something.


Thanks! Hopefully it will all look like that next year. Patience.. KBG really tests it.



wardconnor said:


> Those pictures look good. Looks better than average. When I planted my lawn it took a year or 2 until is was completely filled in everywhere... who am I to talk though. You have a few of these under your belt.
> 
> The rings around the trees is what surprised me. I guess its to be expected with that heavy machine.


Thanks Connor! It will get there in time. The tree areas are definitely standing out. I am not concerned at this time, but will keep an eye on it next year. I don't think it is from the grooved rollers on the cutting units, but maybe from the turf tires. I could switch those back to smooths next year if they don't get better. Could also be some compaction in those areas so I might hand aerate those spots next spring and see how they respond.



fusebox7 said:


> My reel mower arrives tomorrow. Boy am I excited to see the density when cutting (cleanly) that low. Between you and wardconnor, I may be also taking some leveling pointers from you guys  Fantastic job!


I'm excited!! I love to see other interest by members reel mowing cool season turf! Connor is your go to guy for leveling advice. I have sanded once and would love to do it on this yard as well, but due to the size, I might be limited to trying to correct the worst spots with sand for now.


----------



## ericgautier

Damn! Nice work Pete.


----------



## LIgrass

Awesome! You couldn't ask for much better than this. I would throw some milo around the trees to help those areas deal with the extra mower traffic stress and more shady conditions.


----------



## Pete1313

A quick update. Day 71. Last Sunday, 10/8, was day 64 and I put down an app of prodiamine at the .5 lbs/acre rate. I also put down another urea app just before the prodiamine. That is going to be my last urea dose before the final winterizer app in a few weeks. This past week mother nature has taken care of the watering and then some with over 3" of rain in the past few days. It was difficult getting out and mowing today as the ground was really soft. Ended up double cutting and bringing it down to .75". This is the height that I will leave it at going into winter. I will be stretching the watering out to water once ET reaches a .35" deficit, which will be about every 4 days this time of year. Things are starting to slow down. I will get some more detailed pics up at day 75, and then an end-of-year update at day 90. One thing to note, as you get lower, it makes the thin areas even more obvious. There will definitely be some patch work needed next spring as well as spots that need to fill in, but so far am happy with where the bewitched is at. Here is a pic I snapped this evening when I was done mowing. One of my favorite stripe patterns, single, single, double.


----------



## Ware

Pete1313 said:


>


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## pennstater2005

That looks amazing!


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## J_nick

Looking good Pete. Thanks for the update! Love seeing that triplex mown turf... I lost the auction for the triplex I was looking at &#128554;


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks Ware, Pennstater and J_nick! Sorry to hear you lost the auction. How much did it go for? One other thing to note, today was the first time I turned on the groomers since renovating. They were set at .5", 33% below HOC. I was nervous turning them on because of all the rain that was received but the results were good. They really helped get some of the horizontal growth straightened out and left a clean cut.


----------



## J_nick

It went for $650. I matched his bid at $650 but since he had his max set there I needed to bid higher. $675 could have brought it home but who knows. I had my max set at $500 but in the heat of the moment went up to $650. Add on 10% auction fee and 6 hour round trip to bring it home and I would have been close to $900, I just wasn't comfortable with that with the "reel issues" it had. I'll just save up my money for a better unit. I've been looking at the JD 2653A's and they seem like it could be a good fit. There are so many different models from the big 3 it's hard to keep them straight.


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## Pete1313

Agreed, $900 would have been alittle high for that one considering its age and unknown reel issues. I will keep my eyes open for you.


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## Colonel K0rn

Hot damn that looks great.


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## aug0211

Looking great, Pete.

You're an inspiration for us all! First timer here with ~8k sq ft in a 100% Bewitched reno and you've been both energizing and educational!

I enjoy reading your posts, seeing your photos, and learning from what you're doing.

I will say, my dinky 20" mower is incredibly unsatisfying every time I check back in on your thread 

Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing it all with us.


----------



## Pete1313

Colonel K0rn said:


> Hot damn that looks great.


Thanks Colonel. It is looking good at street level, but has some trouble spots and thin areas that are obvious in the pics taken from higher up. Even more so the lower it is cut. There will be work that will need to be done next spring, but I am glad I did it all in one shot instead of sections at a time.



aug0211 said:


> Looking great, Pete.
> 
> You're an inspiration for us all! First timer here with ~8k sq ft in a 100% Bewitched reno and you've been both energizing and educational!
> 
> I enjoy reading your posts, seeing your photos, and learning from what you're doing.
> 
> I will say, my dinky 20" mower is incredibly unsatisfying every time I check back in on your thread
> 
> Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing it all with us.


Thanks aug0211! I'm glad I can be an inspiration! Reel mowed KBG looks amazing and hope this thread inspires others to want to try it. This is my first attempt at maintaining it short from the start of a renovation as previously I started reel mowing KBG a year after renovating. I am definitely learning things right along with you! Cutting KBG short has its challenges, and is not for everyone. I also enjoy the look of longer cut cool season grass.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

With every update the stripes look so much more pronounced. I think by next year any thin areas will fill right in and that turf will be looking unreal. Great job.


----------



## aug0211

Agreed, the stripes are looking better and better! I've read some contradictory opinions - some saying to continue the same mowing pattern for improved striping, others advocating for different patterns to avoid ruts. I assume the same pattern is ok with appropriate drainage to avoid ruts?

Regarding HOC, I was always a "mow high" guy, but have been interested in the lower HOCs since joining here from another place 

I'm a novice so I need to be careful, though luckily, my mower helps protect me a bit (it can't go too low).

Pete, do you think the lower HOC is helping your rhizome growth? I have some weaker spots and am hoping the lower mowing helps encourage side growth as I've read on the forum.


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks Snowbob!



aug0211 said:


> I've read some contractory opinions - some saying to continue the same mowing pattern for improved striping, others advocating for different patterns to avoid ruts. I assume the same pattern is ok with appropriate drainage to avoid ruts?


Mowing in the same direction will definitely make the stripes pop. But alternating the direction leaves a cleaner cut. The grass will lay down and some longer pieces will get missed when mowing in the same pattern, or burning in the stripes. Sports fields burn in their stripes to make them pop more. Take a look at Wrigley Field this Tuesday, Wednesday, and hopefully Thursday. You will see the exact same pattern each day, and most likely have been burning it in since the weekend. I would not mow in the same pattern all season long, but a few cuts in the same direction would be ok.



aug0211 said:


> Pete, do you think the lower HOC is helping your rhizome growth? I have some weaker spots and am hoping the lower mowing helps encourage side growth as I've read on the forum.


I don't think I am helping rhizome growth at my height. Others can chime in, but I think a higher HOC encourages rhizomes (around 2" HOC?). Cutting lower does encourage tillering to help fill in. In my case, I have made the decision that keeping the grass plants short, and training them to like the low HOC is a priority. It will still fill in just fine, even if it is not at the optimal height for rhizome production


----------



## fusebox7

:lol: :nod: Yup - amazing, Pete. I have definitely noticed a ton of horizontal growth with my cultivars (1/3 Bewitched). I bet those groomers really help that cutting action. We also got 3+" of rain so I'll be out inspecting the lawn this morning. It's REALLY going to need a mow... and then maybe another trial app of FAS


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## GrassFarmer

hey pete how much urea you planning on for your winterizing app?


----------



## RockyMtnLawnNut

Amazing job Pete! Now is about the time that all the neighbors who thought you were crazy are going to be coming out of the woodwork to ask for lawn advice. I'll also be interested in what your winterizing app looks like.


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## Pete1313

fusebox7 said:


> :lol: :nod: Yup - amazing, Pete. I have definitely noticed a ton of horizontal growth with my cultivars (1/3 Bewitched). I bet those groomers really help that cutting action. We also got 3+" of rain so I'll be out inspecting the lawn this morning. It's REALLY going to need a mow... and then maybe another trial app of FAS


Thanks fusebox! The groomers will definitely help with horizontal growth, and over time the turf will get denser and more upright. In the mean time, it will show all the thin spots as the horizontal growth won't cover them up. Simplest way to describe it, is the groomers will comb/slice thru the canopy and help straighten the blades out for a cleaner cut. In the end, it will help get what looks like the left side of the image opposed to the right.











GrassFarmer said:


> hey pete how much urea you planning on for your winterizing app?


So far i have put down 6 urea apps ranging from .35-.46 lbs/M of Nitrogen. For the final app I will wait until topgrowth stops and then open the spreader a couple clicks. Somewhere in the range of .75 lbs/M of Nitrogen and I will be happy, but alittle more or less won't hurt.



RockyMtnLawnNut said:


> Amazing job Pete! Now is about the time that all the neighbors who thought you were crazy are going to be coming out of the woodwork to ask for lawn advice. I'll also be interested in what your winterizing app looks like.


Thanks! No neighbors asking for advice, yet.


----------



## Spammage

Pete1313 said:


> RockyMtnLawnNut said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing job Pete! Now is about the time that all the neighbors who thought you were crazy are going to be coming out of the woodwork to ask for lawn advice. I'll also be interested in what your winterizing app looks like.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! No neighbors asking for advice, yet.
Click to expand...

They are still trying to figure out why you are always messing with your artificial turf.

Looks terrific Pete! :thumbup:


----------



## aug0211

Spammage said:


> They are still trying to figure out why you are always messing with your artificial turf.
> 
> Looks terrific Pete! :thumbup:


Made me LOL


----------



## Pete1313

aug0211 said:


> Spammage said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are still trying to figure out why you are always messing with your artificial turf.
> 
> Looks terrific Pete! :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> Made me LOL
Click to expand...

Even artificial turf needs maintenance. There is brushing, sweeping, the occasional infill topdressing...


----------



## Pete1313

Snapped some pics for a day 78 update. Not much new going on. Still cutting at .75" HOC with the groomers on and set at .5". I am also not putting down any more nitrogen at this point until I winterize in a few weeks. The main goals right now are leaf mulching and getting it ready for winter. I have been noticing alittle spreading in the bare areas. New growth popping up from rhizomes is satisfying to see. I am starting to see some imperfections at this height where the irrigation trenches were. despite back filling them 3x already it is looking like they will need some touch up work come spring. It is minor, but you can see them in the pics if you look close.

Day 45








Day 60








Day 78









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Day 78









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Day 60








Day 78









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Day 78









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Day 78


----------



## J_nick

You can definitely tell it's thickening up. Is the ring around the trees caused by the inside tire or the back wheel of the triplex?


----------



## Pete1313

I'm not 100% sure. It kind of lines up with the outside wheel, but you would think the front inside wheel would "scrub" and tear up the grass more as it turns. Looking back thru the pics they have been there since the first few mows, so maybe the triplex tore up the seedlings when turning on the first couple of mows when everything was damp and fragile. Also the triplex wasn't set up to properly cut young turf so maybe that contributed when turning. A better setup would have been smooth tires and smooth front rollers. Either way, it looks like the triplex is not causing any other damage and the areas are slowly recovering now that the grass is getting older/tougher.


----------



## J_nick

Well if it does start causing any more damage I know a guy that's in the market  . I would expect the inside wheel to tear more just by the physics of it turning a sharper circle but when turning the rear tire might match up with the outside wheel causing double the traffic.


----------



## pennstater2005

Looks good Pete. And getting some leaves on there to mulch in!


----------



## Lawnfreak

Looking good Pete! You can tell in the bare spots it is starting to fill in more and more with each update. Next year it will be very interesting to see how much the KBG fills in. It was amazing how much Grass Daddy's yard filled in, in a year can't wait to see yours. Also what kind of winterizer are you putting down?


----------



## Pete1313

J_nick said:


> Well if it does start causing any more damage I know a guy that's in the market  . I would expect the inside wheel to tear more just by the physics of it turning a sharper circle but when turning the rear tire might match up with the outside wheel causing double the traffic.


 you would expect at least some inside tire wear. Just weird that their isn't any. I know when I mowed with the triplex last year and this spring on the NoMix there were no wear issues around the trees, so I expect as the turf matures and fills in the rings should disappear. So, unfurtunately you will need to get your triplex from somewhere else! :lol:



pennstater2005 said:


> Looks good Pete. And getting some leaves on there to mulch in!


Thanks! I enjoy mulching leaves. Satisfying getting the rotory out and chopping them up.



Lawnfreak said:


> Looking good Pete! You can tell in the bare spots it is starting to fill in more and more with each update. Next year it will be very interesting to see how much the KBG fills in. It was amazing how much Grass Daddy's yard filled in, in a year can't wait to see yours. Also what kind of winterizer are you putting down?


Thanks! Next spring is when the KBG will start to show off its spreading. Most spots should fill in nicely by summer, the worst spots by next fall. For winterizer I will be using Urea.


----------



## ericgautier

Looking good man!


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks EG!


----------



## LawnNerd

Pete1313 said:


> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks good Pete. And getting some leaves on there to mulch in!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I enjoy mulching leaves. Satisfying getting the rotory out and chopping them up.
Click to expand...

I was just wondering what you reel guys did with the leaves while i was mulching in some this weekend!


----------



## Pete1313

LawnNerd said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks good Pete. And getting some leaves on there to mulch in!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I enjoy mulching leaves. Satisfying getting the rotory out and chopping them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was just wondering what you reel guys did with the leaves while i was mulching in some this weekend!
Click to expand...

I use the rider to chop them up. I have to set it at 2"-2.25" otherwise I will scalp on the slopes and although the grass is cut at .75" the leaf pieces fall into the canopy nicely and disappear in a few days.


----------



## JohnP

Found your thread when googlin' for Bewitched KBG. I'm thinking of doing a front yard reno in 2018 using it. Love all your attention to detail and consistent pictures. Reading this thread today was like a Netflix marathon!  Looks good!!


----------



## Pete1313

JohnP said:


> Found your thread when googlin' for Bewitched KBG. I'm thinking of doing a front yard reno in 2018 using it. Love all your attention to detail and consistent pictures. Reading this thread today was like a Netflix marathon!  Looks good!!


Thanks JohnP! I try and keep up on the pictures as it makes it easy for me as well as anyone following to see how bewitched will fill in and establish over time as well as how patient you need to be when growing KBG. When you look at it every day it is easy to think that no progress is being made, but with pictures, it is easy to see how it has really grown over the last 30-40 days. I'm happy to see you enjoying the renovation so far. There is definitely a long way to go, and lots more to come next year. I look forward to following your reno next year in 2018. Welcome to The Lawn Forum!


----------



## g-man

Binge reading a reno?

I really like Pete thread. It shows the key to a successful Reno, and it is preparation. You could see that he planned for all the details and executed his plan. I would like to see this lawn in person next year.


----------



## Pete1313

g-man said:


> Binge reading a reno?
> 
> I really like Pete thread. It shows the key to a successful Reno, and it is preparation. You could see that he planned for all the details and executed his plan. I would like to see this lawn in person next year.


Thanks g-man! Come up and see it. I will let you take the triplex for a spin! Maybe the coworker I sold my 220SL to will be ready to sell it as he is not using it to its full potential and is debating getting rid of it.


----------



## g-man

I used to travel to Rockford every week for a few months for work. I don't miss the drive North on i39 from Indy.

My current work trips are air travel or to Buffalo Grove, IL. But there is a chance I might need to go to Rockford in the summer next year.


----------



## J_nick

LawnNerd said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pennstater2005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks good Pete. And getting some leaves on there to mulch in!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I enjoy mulching leaves. Satisfying getting the rotory out and chopping them up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was just wondering what you reel guys did with the leaves while i was mulching in some this weekend!
Click to expand...

To reel owners rotary mowers = lawn vacuum/ shredder


----------



## LawnNerd

J_nick said:


> LawnNerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I enjoy mulching leaves. Satisfying getting the rotory out and chopping them up.
> 
> 
> 
> I was just wondering what you reel guys did with the leaves while i was mulching in some this weekend!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To reel owners rotary mowers = lawn vacuum/ shredder
Click to expand...

To cool season guys Bermuda = weed.


----------



## J_nick

LawnNerd said:


> J_nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LawnNerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was just wondering what you reel guys did with the leaves while i was mulching in some this weekend!
> 
> 
> 
> To reel owners rotary mowers = lawn vacuum/ shredder
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To cool season guys Bermuda = weed.
Click to expand...

Touché


----------



## Pete1313

g-man said:


> I used to travel to Rockford every week for a few months for work. I don't miss the drive North on i39 from Indy.
> 
> My current work trips are air travel or to Buffalo Grove, IL. But there is a chance I might need to go to Rockford in the summer next year.


My old home was in Mt. Prospect and I commute to Schaumburg for work, both not to far from Buffalo Grove. Let me know next time you are in the area.



J_nick said:


> LawnNerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J_nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> To reel owners rotary mowers = lawn vacuum/ shredder
> 
> 
> 
> To cool season guys Bermuda = weed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Touché
Click to expand...

 :laugh:


----------



## Pete1313

Snapped my day 99 pictures for an end of the season update. Not much progress from day 60 on. Growth has stopped and I might have done my final cut with the triplex for the season. Still cutting at .75". I really like this HOC, but it shows the imperfections, which is a mixed blessing. Although I can see the imperfections, it will make them easier to level and correct next spring. The rings around some of the trees are driving me crazy. I believe they were from the first couple cuts on the fragile seedlings when I used the triplex. They are not getting worse, and am going to address them as well as the other bare spots next spring. Overall I am happy where it is at going into winter, especially for KBG. Lots of work left to do, but am glad I did the whole yard in one shot, opposed to doing one section at a time over multiple years. Instead of planning another renovation next year, I will instead be able to just focus on some of the bare areas and get them to fill in. I blew out the irrigation 2 weeks ago, dropped my winterizer dose of urea yesterday, and today am getting a gentle, slushy rain to water it in.

Day 30








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Day 99









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Day 99









Here is a shot showing the one property line and the color difference of bewitched at .75" and a northern mix cut at 2.5"









Here are some aerial pics.

Day 30








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Day 99


----------



## pennstater2005

Looks amazing Pete! For such a large renovation the bare areas look far and few between.


----------



## ken-n-nancy

It's nice to see the progression of pictures. It's also clear from the comparison of the Day 60 and Day 99 photos that the rings of mower damage around the trees are slowly repairing themselves. Some spring fertilization for first-year grass and corresponding vigorous spring growth might work wonders on those by the end of June.


----------



## aug0211

Looking great, as usual! Incredible success - especially with such a large area. Neighbors definitely understand that you've known what you've been doing 

On the few spotty areas that are left - will you do anything with those, or will they fill in on their own? Asking for a friend who did his first KBG reno this year ;-)


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> Looks amazing Pete! For such a large renovation the bare areas look far and few between.


Thanks Pennstater! I'm happy where it is at, there are some larger bare spots, but am confident to get them taken care of next year.



ken-n-nancy said:


> It's nice to see the progression of pictures. It's also clear from the comparison of the Day 60 and Day 99 photos that the rings of mower damage around the trees are slowly repairing themselves. Some spring fertilization for first-year grass and corresponding vigorous spring growth might work wonders on those by the end of June.


Thanks K&N! Small progress from day 60 to day 99. The pics help see it. Agreed that spring will do wonders. I do plan on putting a few plugs in to worst ring spots around the trees, also hand core aerating and removing plugs in them, and then maybe topdressing with peat to keep some moisture in as the bare spots seem to dry out quicker.



aug0211 said:


> Looking great, as usual! Incredible success - especially with such a large area. Neighbors definitely understand that you've known what you've been doing
> 
> On the few spotty areas that are left - will you do anything with those, or will they fill in on their own? Asking for a friend who did his first KBG reno this year ;-)


Thanks aug0211! With the bare areas, if they are less than 8" in diameter I will let them be, maybe topdress with some peat and let them try and fill in on their own. For the first 6 weeks or so of the growing season I will be aggressive with light and frequent doses of N which will help them fill in. With the larger areas I will transplant plugs, maybe do alittle hand aerating and remove cores, and then topdress with peat. I am planning to make a 6ft diameter fire pit next spring in the backyard between the 2 trees in the center and the back corner. From that spot there will be alot of donor plugs to transplant.

So far the renovation has been fungus free and relatively weed free. I have to thank the property layout in general as well as the weather for part of the reason there as been no fungal issues. Most of the yard is in full sun, I sit up on top of a hill and the yard has really good air flow. Seems the wind is always blowing. Also being on top of that hill makes the yard drain really well. So far there are a few spots with clover, but the only other weeds I have found have been a dozen or so annua plants that were hand pulled.


----------



## g-man

It is so cool to see the progress. I think a key learning for others doing a kbg Reno is not to over apply seed. Kbg spreads and not overseeing helps avoid fungus. Your pictures show that thickening and spreading.


----------



## Pete1313

g-man said:


> It is so cool to see the progress. I think a key learning for others doing a kbg Reno is not to over apply seed. Kbg spreads and not overseeing helps avoid fungus. Your pictures show that thickening and spreading.


Thanks g-man! I agree 110%. Let it spread and thicken on its own. It's what KBG does. Seeding at too high of a rate will cause problems. I have noticed some spreading this fall with the young KBG, but next spring it will spread even better. The year after that it will be even more aggressive. Patience with KBG, it will be worth it.

I have enjoyed watching this spot this fall. It was an area that I was worried about initially due to how bare it was. The area is in full sun, and the Bewitched is doing a good job closing the gap.

Day 30








Day 45








Day 60








Day 99


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Great job Pete! And nice job of keeping it fungal free, which seems like it can be difficult with first year kbg.

One question for you if you don't mind me asking. I see you said you were going to give it frequent light apps of N next spring. I'm curious in what form you'd plan on providing the N? Synthetic or from organic. I'd assume it would be from milo. I'm thinking about how best to get some areas in my lawn to fill in next year. I'm not able to purchase milo and was wondering if alfalfa pellets and corn meal would be good alternatives. Or if synthetic urea would be the best way to go. Sorry I know this is kind of getting a bit far into the future but I read your post and was hoping to get you thoughts on this. Never too early to make plans for the lawn right?


----------



## J_nick

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Great job Pete! And nice job of keeping it fungal free, which seems like it can be difficult with first year kbg.
> 
> One question for you if you don't mind me asking. I see you said you were going to give it frequent light apps of N next spring. I'm curious in what form you'd plan on providing the N? Synthetic or from organic. I'd assume it would be from milo. I'm thinking about how best to get some areas in my lawn to fill in next year. I'm not able to purchase milo and was wondering if alfalfa pellets and corn meal would be good alternatives. Or if synthetic urea would be the best way to go. Sorry I know this is kind of getting a bit far into the future but I read your post and was hoping to get you thoughts on this. Never too early to make plans for the lawn right?


I think Pete likes to use Milo but with the new yard being 38,000 sqft it's just not cost/time effective. It would take 15.2 bags to cover his yard with Milo at bag rate. That's a lot of crap!!


----------



## Pete1313

J_nick said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great job Pete! And nice job of keeping it fungal free, which seems like it can be difficult with first year kbg.
> 
> One question for you if you don't mind me asking. I see you said you were going to give it frequent light apps of N next spring. I'm curious in what form you'd plan on providing the N? Synthetic or from organic. I'd assume it would be from milo. I'm thinking about how best to get some areas in my lawn to fill in next year. I'm not able to purchase milo and was wondering if alfalfa pellets and corn meal would be good alternatives. Or if synthetic urea would be the best way to go. Sorry I know this is kind of getting a bit far into the future but I read your post and was hoping to get you thoughts on this. Never too early to make plans for the lawn right?
> 
> 
> 
> I think Pete likes to use Milo but with the new yard being 38,000 sqft it's just not cost/time effective. It would take 15.2 bags to cover his yard with Milo at bag rate. That's a lot of crap!!
Click to expand...

Thanks SNOWBOB! and it is never to early to start thinking about next year. I have already begun as well.  Milorganite would be a good nitrogen source to use in spring, but like J_nick said, is not as practical on a larger yard. It cost me about $30 to put 1 lb of N on the whole yard from urea. Compare that to Milo costing roughly $140 for 1 lb of N for the whole yard. There is also the amount of product to put down 80lbs urea vs. 650lbs milo(6-2-0). That being said, there is benefit to using milorganite, and will fit some as well as maybe some soybean meal into the plan for next year, but alot of N will come from urea. I think it is important to mix in a few different N sources instead of just sticking with one. I have no experience with alfalfa, but have heard that it will encourage spreading. If I was in your shoes, I would use ground corn, alfalfa, soybean meal, and supplement with urea/ammonium sulfate. I like soybean meal as an organic N source. It is higher in N (believe it is the equivalent of 7-2-1), and is slightly cheaper for me per lb of N when compared to Milo.


----------



## LawnNerd

Alfalfa contains triacontanol which stimulates roots growth. More roots leads to more rhizomes. I'd imagine you'd be able to source Alfalfa Pellets up there in the great white north SnowBob.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Pete1313 said:


> J_nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great job Pete! And nice job of keeping it fungal free, which seems like it can be difficult with first year kbg.
> 
> One question for you if you don't mind me asking. I see you said you were going to give it frequent light apps of N next spring. I'm curious in what form you'd plan on providing the N? Synthetic or from organic. I'd assume it would be from milo. I'm thinking about how best to get some areas in my lawn to fill in next year. I'm not able to purchase milo and was wondering if alfalfa pellets and corn meal would be good alternatives. Or if synthetic urea would be the best way to go. Sorry I know this is kind of getting a bit far into the future but I read your post and was hoping to get you thoughts on this. Never too early to make plans for the lawn right?
> 
> 
> 
> I think Pete likes to use Milo but with the new yard being 38,000 sqft it's just not cost/time effective. It would take 15.2 bags to cover his yard with Milo at bag rate. That's a lot of crap!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks SNOWBOB! and it is never to early to start thinking about next year. I have already begun as well.  Milorganite would be a good nitrogen source to use in spring, but like J_nick said, is not as practical on a larger yard. It cost me about $30 to put 1 lb of N on the whole yard from urea. Compare that to Milo costing roughly $140 for 1 lb of N for the whole yard. There is also the amount of product to put down 80lbs urea vs. 650lbs milo(6-2-0). That being said, there is benefit to using milorganite, and will fit some as well as maybe some soybean meal into the plan for next year, but alot of N will come from urea. I think it is important to mix in a few different N sources instead of just sticking with one. I have no experience with alfalfa, but have heard that it will encourage spreading. If I was in your shoes, I would use ground corn, alfalfa, soybean meal, and supplement with urea/ammonium sulfate. I like soybean meal as an organic N source. It is higher in N (believe it is the equivalent of 7-2-1), and is slightly cheaper for me per lb of N when compared to Milo.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response Pete. I'm able to get ground corn, soy bean meal and alfalfa without too much trouble, and of course urea/ammonium sulfate. I wasn't sure if it was ok to use urea in the spring so thanks for clearing that up for me. I guess I never really considered how much the price is to do an app of milo for you having such a big yard. Not to mention probably time consuming.

Now I have a general guide line of what I should be using, I have the hole winter to think about applying fertilizer. :nod: Thanks again.


----------



## Pete1313

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Thanks for the response Pete. I'm able to get ground corn, soy bean meal and alfalfa without too much trouble, and of course urea/ammonium sulfate. I wasn't sure if it was ok to use urea in the spring so thanks for clearing that up for me. I guess I never really considered how much the price is to do an app of milo for you having such a big yard. Not to mention probably time consuming.
> 
> Now I have a general guide line of what I should be using, I have the hole winter to think about applying fertilizer. :nod: Thanks again.


No problem. The best advice I can give is don't go crazy with it, have moderation. Young KBG needs more fertilizer, but too much will cause issues. If you properly fertilized in the fall, I would hold off on putting more N down until after the spring flush. Especially synthetics. Even then I would put it down at lower rates then you would typically due in fall. Mix in some organics, and then hold off on the urea/AS in the summer and due mostly the grains.


----------



## j4c11

Poly/sulfur coated urea worked well for me this spring and summer without causing too much growth. SiteOne has 21-4-11 that's almost 90% slow release.


----------



## social port

Pete, I really appreciate your attention to detail in taking your pictures from the same angle. You also seem to be able to target exactly the same space over time. Those are elements that I will be trying to replicate on work that I do in the future.

Also, your bluegrass looks great :thumbup:


----------



## Pete1313

social port said:


> Pete, I really appreciate your attention to detail in taking your pictures from the same angle. You also seem to be able to target exactly the same space over time. Those are elements that I will be trying to replicate on work that I do in the future.
> 
> Also, your bluegrass looks great :thumbup:


Thanks social port! It has a ways to go yet. I try and keep the pics as close to the same angle as it helps see the progress with KBG and how it fills in. Without the pictures it can be easy to get discouraged, but looking back on the pics you can see that it has been spreading.


----------



## Ware

Great thread. Great project. :thumbup:


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks Ware!


----------



## Pete1313

It's been awhile since I updated this thread, and for good reason... It's winter and there is no yard work to do! I'm just about done with my winter/non lawn related projects and am getting the itch to get outside and get back to work on the yard. It's going to have to wait a bit yet however as most of Northern IL is still blanketed by over a foot of snow.



















Fingers crossed that it will melt so I can get an early start like last year as I was able to start working on the yard in the first week of March last year. In the next few weeks I will be putting my plan together for what I want to accomplish this year as well as getting the few parts and maintenance items together to get the triplex and other equipment ready for the upcoming year. For now, I wanted to share a picture I took on February 3rd, before we received all our snow. It compares the dormant genetic color difference between a typical old northern mix and the young close mowed bewitched. Excuse the bare spots, I should get most of those to close up this spring/summer.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

The colour difference is pretty substantial between the two lawns. I've had snow cover here since the start of December right through until now except for about a week and a half in mid January. I got to see my bewitched KBG during that time and took note of how it still had very good green colour. I wasn't sure if it was because of the snow helping to insulate it or if it was just how bewitched looks when dormant. It's cool to see the lawn keep such good colour right through the winter.


----------



## Sinclair

SNOWBOB11 said:


> The colour difference is pretty substantial between the two lawns. I've had snow cover here since the start of December right through until now except for about a week and a half in mid January. I got to see my bewitched KBG during that time and took note of how it still had very good green colour. I wasn't sure if it was because of the snow helping to insulate it or if it was just how bewitched looks when dormant. It's cool to see the lawn keep such good colour right through the winter.


I also last saw my lawn during that mid January rainy week.

I have a blend of KBG varieties, and it was still very deep blue-green.

I suspect the fall urea program is the main factor.


----------



## Pete1313

I do think that the fall nitrogen helps it keep its color. All my inputs do overlap that property line though. Maybe the bewitched responds better to the extra nitrogen compared to the old NoMix lawn to help it stay darker. Most of the snow has come on the back end this winter. There were a few 4" or so snow covers early that quickly melted, but there was also a few extended periods where the lawn was left exposed to some extremely cold weather. Perhaps genetics combined with the extra N are the deciding factors.


----------



## aug0211

So I did not get to do the final winterization - bummed about that, but I had more important things come up 

I bring that up because my property line is also incredibly visible right now compared to my neighbors TTTF mixes - with a few rounds of the aggressive fall plan but no full blown winterization. The Bewitched has kept its green impressively well through the winter.


----------



## g-man

aug0211 said:


> So I did not get to do the final winterization - bummed about that, but I had more important things come up
> 
> I bring that up because my property line is also incredibly visible right now compared to my neighbors TTTF mixes - with a few rounds of the aggressive fall plan but no full blown winterization. The Bewitched has kept its green impressively well through the winter.


I'm running a mini experiment(DOE) this year and hopefully next. 4 areas (fall N + Winterizer @ 1.5inhoc, fall N @ 1.5in, winterizer @ 1.5in, fall N @+3in hoc). So far the two with fall N @ 1.5in look the best and I cant tell them apart. The one with winterizer only doesnt look too different than the rest of the neighborhood. +3in HOC looks the worst. his seems to reinforce that the september nitrogen is the most important one, like what the soldat report indicates.


----------



## Pete1313

Interesting experiment g-man. :thumbsup: make sure you take pics. I would love to see them. Why do you think the 1.5"+fall N is doing better then the >3"+fall N?


----------



## GoPre

What a thread. Thanks a ton for this. The Seinfeld GIF took the cake for me. That was literally me while reading.


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks GoPre for taking the time to read it! More to come this year. I'm excited to get going this season!


----------



## g-man

Pete1313 said:


> Interesting experiment g-man. :thumbsup: make sure you take pics. I would love to see them. Why do you think the 1.5"+fall N is doing better then the >3"+fall N?


So far these are just my winter observations. I need to take pictures as we move into spring. The 3in section might just be a visual thing. The long leaf blades are brown looking and might be hiding any green underneath. They are also further away from the ground and more exposed to the winds.

Ultimately, does it matter? I think how it looks in winter might not be a good indicator. Once it starts growing in spring might be a better indicator.


----------



## Pete1313

g-man said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting experiment g-man. :thumbsup: make sure you take pics. I would love to see them. Why do you think the 1.5"+fall N is doing better then the >3"+fall N?
> 
> 
> 
> So far these are just my winter observations. I need to take pictures as we move into spring. The 3in section might just be a visual thing. The long leaf blades are brown looking and might be hiding any green underneath. They are also further away from the ground and more exposed to the winds.
> 
> Ultimately, does it matter? I think how it looks in winter might not be a good indicator. Once it starts growing in spring might be a better indicator.
Click to expand...

Good stuff g-man! :thumbsup: I imagine next year you will add a .75" HOC to the experiment? :nod:


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## Fishnugget

Wow! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

I just saw your thread for the first time.

Pete you did everything I've done to my front and back yard but on a much much larger scale. From the machines, to trenching, leveling, irrigation,sprinkler spray tweaking, fertilizing you have done it all and more. I have a total of 2500 sq ft and completed my front and back yard and I am still hurting from doing everything myself. In your journal here you make it look so easy. My right arm/hand still goes numb from trenching and I still use lots and lots of Icy Hot cream. 

I dont know how you did it but you did a fantastic job on your lawn and a great job of documenting. Look forward to see your progress.

Pete I am interested in FAS, first time I hear of it. All I have been adding to my lawn has been milo. Should I just stick with milo or start adding FAS? I want my yards more green. Also, what other fertilizer do you recommend? I started my backyard lawn back in Nov-Dec with sod and am mowing at 0.5" HOC.


----------



## Pete1313

@Fishnugget Thanks for taking the time to read my thread! Looking back, it was alot of work, but I like my projects. And the bigger, the better. During this "off-season" I just finished a renovation on the in-laws kitchen and am currently remodeling a friend's office. But after I am done I will be ready for a change of pace and am looking forward to getting back to the lawn and getting outdoors! Im glad i took on the whole lawn renovation in one year instead of breaking it up into multiple years. Last year was all the bull work, but this year will be the refining year. And am excited to get into a normal maintenance groove, watch it fill in, and make it look like the lawn I envision and not a work in progress.

I like using FAS. I spray it when I spray trinexapac-ethyl and it helps me get the iron I need on a high PH soil, gives it good color, and is cheaper than other options for iron on a larger yard. For fertilizer, I will rely alot on urea based fertilizers this year mostly because it is more cost effective on a larger yard but may mix in alittle Milorganite or soybean meal as well. As far as a fertilizer recommendation for you, I have no experience maintaining Bermuda and the warm-season members would be able to give better advice.


----------



## kolbasz

@Pete1313

although I am not ready to jump in and get one, I wanted to ask about your sprayer setup. Since it is on the tractor, how is it with turns? I have an old craftsman and the turn radius is crap. There is no zero turn back and forth, so I would be curious how yours is and how you handle making sure coverage is good.

I am using a 4 gallon backpack now, but a wider spray coverage cuts time and time is money (beer)


----------



## Pete1313

To get even coverage I made my boom spray width to be exactly 2x the width of the stripes the reel mower makes. That way I will just drive up and down each stripe and will get double coverage as it will spray each stripe plus half of the stripe to the left and right of the one I'm driving down. When I get to the end of a stripe, I will switch off the sprayer and 3pt turn and start down the next stripe. The turn radius on my tractor would me comparable to most other lawn tractors. I forgot to mention, before I go up and down the stripes I will spray the clean up passes first, so every mulch bed and the property border will get two passes with the sprayer to basically trim everything out if that makes sense, and then when I get to those borders or trimmed out mulch beds, I will shut off the sprayer and then turn it back on when I get passed the bed and resume on.

Hope that helps, let me know if you need more info. I enjoy spraying the yard and with my setup and technique I think it's fairly accurate.


----------



## kolbasz

That makes lots of sense actually. 3 pt turn vs long broad turns. Only other way is marking dye I suppose.

Which tank do you have. I was looking at pull ones and they are quite pricey.

May have to ask for a push one from santa. I only have 13k so coverage is way less.


----------



## Pete1313

kolbasz said:


> Which tank do you have. I was looking at pull ones and they are quite pricey.


The tank I have came in a kit offered by John Deere. It is their 25 gallon mounted sprayer for the X300/X500. I have seen an identical white version of the tank before, but forgot where online I saw it.


----------



## Pete1313

I've spent a few days outside on the yard this past week and am anxious to get back to some lawn care.

Last week I took my soil samples and should have the results back in the next day or two. I'm trying a different lab this year(Waypoint Analytical) and am also changing the way I take samples. In years past I took soil samples from the 3-4" depth with a pro plugger and then put the rest of the plug back. This year I'm submitting the whole sample from the 0-4" depth and decided to use a different tool to make the job easier. I picked up a 7/16" soil sample probe and modified it with a scrap piece of metal bolted to it as a depth gauge. Worked really well to get consistent depths. It also allowed me to quickly take maybe 100 samples throughout the yard which I then mixed together.




























I also picked up some Milorganite for the year as it was on sale at Farm&Fleet. That is enough Milo to put down 2 lbs of N/M on the yard. I am awaiting the results of my soil test before I get the rest of my supplies, but will rely heavily on urea as my nitrogen source due to it being cheaper.










Saturday was spring tune up day, where I spent the day getting the mowers and other equipment ready for the upcoming year. I did the maintenance on the triplex, cleaned it, backlapped it, and the only part on it that I needed to replace was the rear roller on the rear cutting unit since it had major play in the bearings.










When I was done backlapping and cleaning the cutting units, I was able to use the DIY Bedknife Buddy that @g-man and I have been working on.










On Sunday I spent a few hours cutting in some mulched areas and expanding a a few since the soil is is drying out some and becoming workable.



















Snapped this picture from today.










The Bewitched is starting to wake up. It is out competing the Nomix lawns of the area. Bewitched is a notoriously slow starter in spring but possibly the combination of a first year lawn, fall fertilizer and primo, and that I put it to bed in winter at a 3/4" HOC are contributing to it starting to get going earlier. Minimal winter damage, and if the weather cooperates I will throw the baskets on and due a spring clean up mow sometime in the next week or so.


----------



## kolbasz

Pete1313 said:


> kolbasz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which tank do you have. I was looking at pull ones and they are quite pricey.
> 
> 
> 
> The tank I have came in a kit offered by John Deere. It is their 25 gallon mounted sprayer for the X300/X500. I have seen an identical white version of the tank before, but forgot where online I saw it.
Click to expand...

thanks. So it is tractor specific. Guess I will see how things go with the backpack and PGR on 3 week intervals.


----------



## Pete1313

@kolbasz, the kit is tractor specific. The brackets in it are designed to work with JD.


----------



## ABC123

Looks like you made it through winter very well.

Very interested to see how you implement the greenkeeper app, been trying to figure it out a little bit.


----------



## Pete1313

ABC123 said:


> Looks like you made it through winter very well.
> 
> Very interested to see how you implement the greenkeeper app, been trying to figure it out a little bit.


It made it thru well. There is a little damage that the dogs did in the back yard, nothing crazy, and should be fine when it gets going. As a plus, the winter erased all the crooked stripes that a certain person did when testing out their new mower..  :lol:

I'm hoping I can get some time to play around with the app a bit before the year starts. In case I don't, the main info from the greenskeeper app that I will be using is the primo app interval based on GDD. I did make a spreadsheet that calculates the GDD and tells me when to apply. So if I don't use the greenskeeper app, I will at least use the spreadsheet.


----------



## HomerGuy

I sincerely doubt there will be another thread in the history of TLF that will be as epic as this one.

The photo of a pallet of Milo in your garage is icing on the cake.

Pete what did you use to cut those razor sharp bed edges?


----------



## Pete1313

@HomerGuy I used an Echo PAS-2620 with the Bed Redefiner attachment. It's not designed to cut new beds but thought I would try it out. I went slow and it worked well. When I was done cutting out the edge, I used a garden hoe, shovel and rake to clear out the area next to the edge.

The PAS-2620 is a new tool for me this year and am hoping with the attachments, it will help me keep up on maintaining the edges of the beds. I also picked up an R&R landscape blade and an edger.


----------



## HomerGuy

Pete1313 said:


> @HomerGuy I used an Echo PAS-2620 with the Bed Redefiner attachment.


I've had my eye on a Stihl KM 131 Kombi system with a bed redefiner. These pictures make me want it even more!

I currently have an Echo PAS-225 with a string trimmer and edger attachment. Unfortunately the 225 isn't big enough to run the bed redefiner. I wish I would have bought the larger powerhead at the time so I had the option for it.

I've been happy with Echo overall, but will probably switch to Stihl on my next purchase, only because there aren't any Echo dealers nearby our new house.


----------



## Pete1313

HomerGuy said:


> I've had my eye on a Stihl KM 131 Kombi system with a bed redefiner. These pictures make me want it even more!


When making the upgrade this winter to the Echo, I debated between this setup and the Stihl one. Basically it came down to the design of the bed redefiner. No experience with the Stihl one, but I am happy with the design on the Echo. The "Claw" type version on the Echo cuts nice lines, but it really powered thru alot of surface roots around the maple trees.


----------



## Rucraz2

Wow pete I am just floored by this epic transformation. It actually brought me to TLF and made me become a member. I Mostly spend my time lurking over at ATY. Just thought I would add my 2 cents in. You make this look very easy. I just purchased a property last fall with 1.3 acres. 42.5k of it covered by irrigation. 16 zones in all. Another 1.5k not irrigated across a paved walking/bike trail. The front yard looks like a decent Nomix and the back is 3/4 as good with quite a bit of clumping fescue i think its called? But I would love to follow this to a T with my property someday when my schedule and pocket book allow it. I did have one question though if you wouldn't mind. When aerating how did you avoid the sprinkler heads? I think I read you damaged one? Did you just flag them and drive around? Im not a fan of doing it myself unless truly needed or for a reno as well. But thought I would ask for when the time comes.


----------



## Colonel K0rn

Rucraz2 said:


> Wow pete I am just floored by this epic transformation. It actually brought me to TLF and made me become a member. I Mostly spend my time lurking over at ATY. Just thought I would add my 2 cents in. You make this look very easy. I just purchased a property last fall with 1.3 acres. 42.5k of it covered by irrigation. 16 zones in all. Another 1.5k not irrigated across a paved walking/bike trail. The front yard looks like a decent Nomix and the back is 3/4 as good with quite a bit of clumping fescue i think its called? But I would love to follow this to a T with my property someday when my schedule and pocket book allow it. I did have one question though if you wouldn't mind. When aerating how did you avoid the sprinkler heads? I think I read you damaged one? Did you just flag them and drive around? Im not a fan of doing it myself unless truly needed or for a reno as well. But thought I would ask for when the time comes.


Welcome to TLF! Glad you found the right site for help. :thumbup:


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## Pete1313

Rucraz2 said:


> Wow pete I am just floored by this epic transformation. It actually brought me to TLF and made me become a member. I Mostly spend my time lurking over at ATY. Just thought I would add my 2 cents in. You make this look very easy. I just purchased a property last fall with 1.3 acres. 42.5k of it covered by irrigation. 16 zones in all. Another 1.5k not irrigated across a paved walking/bike trail. The front yard looks like a decent Nomix and the back is 3/4 as good with quite a bit of clumping fescue i think its called? But I would love to follow this to a T with my property someday when my schedule and pocket book allow it. I did have one question though if you wouldn't mind. When aerating how did you avoid the sprinkler heads? I think I read you damaged one? Did you just flag them and drive around? Im not a fan of doing it myself unless truly needed or for a reno as well. But thought I would ask for when the time comes.


Welcome to TLF, and thanks for taking the time to read my renovation! You are correct, I just flagged them and tried to avoid them. I did get alittle careless and got too close to one and had to replace it.

I'm still patiently waiting for this weather to finally warm up so I can get more work done outside. High temps have barely been hitting 40°F. Average high should be around 60°F. It's getting old.


----------



## J_nick

Pete... sorry the weather up there has been extending your winter, same for down here but a little better. I keep popping in to see if you've got a mow in. I've got my lawn down to .250" right now (scalp level) I get a little bit of growth then bam 22° temps zap it. I've had 2-3 of those so I just take the triplex out to even everything out. The smoothness of the lawn is incredible after cutting with these things. I feel the 2500E is at home at the .250" cut, it was an approach mower. Tell the weather man to crank up the heat we need to see some beautiful stripes!


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## Pete1313

J_nick said:


> Tell the weather man to crank up the heat we need to see some beautiful stripes!


Something needs to change.. it is supposed to get warmer by the end of the week(maybe 70°F), but then back down to 40's-50's by the weekend. The yard needs a clean up mow and Prodiamine will go down this weekend or next. Hopefully I can throw the baskets on and get out there this weekend... weather permitting.

Btw, 2 inches of snow was a surprise to wake up to this morning.. :fool:


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## g-man

Thrusday looks great:


----------



## ericgautier

Pete1313 said:


> I'm still patiently waiting for this weather to finally warm up so I can get more work done outside. High temps have barely been hitting 40°F. Average high should be around 60°F. It's getting old.


Hang in there... you'll be out mowing in no time.


----------



## Pete1313

Threw the baskets on yesterday and did a clean up mow after work. Set the HOC at .750" and ran the groomers at ~.5". I was surprised at the amount of clippings and had to empty the baskets 4x.



















I think most of the clippings had to have been growth from last year. Soil temps for the first time yesterday reached 45°F at a 4" depth, but have been around 40° or below previously. I didn't have to mow yet, but I use the stripes as a guide when spraying and am planning to do an app of prodiamine this evening.

Lots of spots needing to fill in, and I'll be putting the KBG's spreading ability to the test as no spring seeding is planned. Here is a quick pic I snapped when I was done right after sunset. Just for you @J_nick.


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## wardconnor

Wow Pete. Looks great. Wide stripes look awesome.


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## J_nick

Beautiful Pete :dancenana: congrats on the first mow


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## fusebox7

Pete1313 said:


> Here is a quick pic I snapped when I was done right after sunset.


  And here I am plucking the infinite Poa annua from my damp sandy loam hotbed...


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## ericgautier

Beautiful! :thumbup:


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## SNOWBOB11

How did you get such good stripes already? Those are some lasers. Very nice.


----------



## stotea

g-man said:


> Thrusday looks great:


This spring is the first time in my life I had the thought of wanting to live somewhere warmer... I love MN - I've lived here all 32 years of my life. But come on! This stuff really sucks. Another 6+ inches of snow this weekend. There's a very good chance we won't have a single day in April that breaks the daily average high temp. 

Anyway... Pete, absolutely beautiful. Your hard work is very obviously paying off. Well done, sir.


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## g-man

I read of a possible Blizzard for the mn area.


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## stotea

Lots of wind and snow with ice underneath. My favorite part of the first image below is "nearly impossible travel conditions" lol.

As of this afternoon:


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks everyone for the replies! It felt good to get the triplex out after a long winter. The Lawn has a long way to go. KBG sure does take it's time establishing, and I have to admit that I am jealous of all the reel mown ryegrass "instant lawns"  I have seen posted lately. I believe KBG is a better fit for my needs/yard/climate, but patience is the hardest part. The front yard is looking very well for just being planted last fall, except for what is triplex ring around the trees that I believe was caused by mowing with the triplex during the first couple mows on young grass. I will plug those areas and watch them fill in this year. The front yards are 100% full sun and think that is helping them establish faster. It should look awesome by summer. 
The back yard is part shade (not terrible), but some of the afternoon sun is blocked by the house and could be a reason why it is alittle behind. There is also some minor dog damage in the back as well as a couple bare areas that I am hopeful will fill in after transplanting. Once the grass starts growing, I will try and document everything good and bad and try and give monthly updates to track the progress and how it fills in.



SNOWBOB11 said:


> How did you get such good stripes already? Those are some lasers. Very nice.


Because triplex.  it makes striping easy, and keeping the lines straight are as simple as looking at a target in the distance and keeping a steady hand on the wheel. I do think the groomers help define the lines alittle better(although they will help erase previous lines when mowing diagonal to a previous pattern). This is because the groomer sort of combs thru the grass, straightens and lifts it, and after it is cut, it is evenly layed down by the rear roller.


----------



## Pete1313

stotea said:


> Lots of wind and snow with ice underneath. My favorite part of the first image below is "nearly impossible travel conditions" lol.
> 
> As of this afternoon:


 :shock: Ugh.. Sorry. Keep that stuff up north! I'm done with that!


----------



## PHXCobra

Meanwhile Phoenix hit 100 this week. I've been wearing shorts for the better part of a month. Sorry to all you guys up north.

As my NY born PA raised mom says, you don't ever need to shovel sunshine.


----------



## SimonR

Looking great Pete.

What is the lowest that KBG can be mowed? Are there more dwarf cultivars that are bred for density and low HOC?


----------



## Pete1313

SimonR said:


> Looking great Pete.
> 
> What is the lowest that KBG can be mowed? Are there more dwarf cultivars that are bred for density and low HOC?


Thanks! The lowest I have maintained bewitched at was 9/16"(.563")/14mm at my last home. It did very well at that height. Any cultivar from the 3 "Compact" classifications should perform well at the lower HOC. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw0xtCmkOnnj3YjGpj88rTQI Also, in the NTEP '06-'10 data, quality ratings for the "Schedule A" maintenance were mowed between .4-6" HOC.
http://www.ntep.org/reports/kb05/kb05_11-10f/kb05_11-10f.htm


----------



## Pete1313

Put down my spring dose of Prodiamine 65 WDG yesterday. .75 lb/acre rate. It actially felt like spring yesterday with a high temp of 69°F, .15" ET, and 24 GDD base 32°F for the day. Too bad it won't last as more cold, below average temps are forecasted.


----------



## HoosierLawnGnome

@Pete1313 Looking good! It will fill in! 

I'm totally with you - KBG takes patience - particularly on a large lawn. I have some spots that look knock down gorgeous and a few others that are fugly. You just can't baby an acre. Makes me really respect the GCs that managed hundreds of acres well. And we need to canonize the GC @ Augusta - STAT!

I'm on year two and still have spots to fill in. Thing is on my previous lawn, I'd baby those spots. I can't do that when I have 7 or 8 3' circles on opposite ends of a big yard. I move plugs in when I have time and toss out seed, but I just don't have time to baby them. The weed wand with glyphosate is my most frequently used "sprayer" now. I can walk around the yard without having to bend over and touch all the quack, and it's a lot more comfortable and enjoyable. My plan is to do that every so often and hopefully the KBG will outcompete the quack. So far, that strategy worked last fall.

Mine still has so far to go. with the triplex, I need to reshape some beds to eliminate the nooks it can't maneuver into.

BUT, it looks just fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. #1 thing my friends comment on when they see me. I'm like "it has a long way to go" - because it does IMO. Most eyes get taken to the nice areas - it's the critical eyes like ours that notice the fringe areas. They'll get there in time!


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## Pete1313

@HoosierLawnGnome thanks for the reply and agree you can't baby an acre. Some of the things I would like to do I just don't have the time/funds/equipment.

Like you mentioned most friends and neighbors dont notice the imperfections and give compliments, but my response is usually the same as yours.. "It has a long way to go."


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## kolbasz

The common folk don't see the negatives like creeping bentgrass, POA t or the likes. They think we are crazy killing sections of green grass to remove the crap


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## Rucraz2

Sounds like it is coming along nicely pete. For some reason i cant get the pics to come up (newbie). But I can jealously picture it in my mind. Can i ask you a few questions since I just moved into about the same setup as you did. Do you rake anything in the yard? To just pick up any matted material?? I have been contemplating getting a front dethatcher rake for the mower. But i dont want to disturb the soil obviously. 
2nd. About how many times are you filling your sprayer tank when spraying? Im getting a 25 gallon sprayer this week in hopes of being ready to get prodiamine down. I was just curious how many tanks you put down.


----------



## Pete1313

This past weekend I fixed any picture issues and they should be working now. I can see them ok on my android device. Let me know if you are still having issues and we can figure out what's going on.

I have not had a need to rake/dethatch/verticut any grass in the yard. Each yard and situation is different, so I won't say I'll never need to do it, just no need at this point.

I use 35 gallons of water/carrier to spray most things. I spray 38,000 sq ft. So that comes to just under 1 gallon per 1000 sq ft.


----------



## Rucraz2

So you do just under 1.5 full tanks on the whole yard? I need to calibrate mine. But with my time restraints its not going to be as accurate as i like. So thats why I was asking.
I just keep going back and forth about a tine dethatcher. I experimented and I left my grass at 3 inches last fall instead of cutting it down more. And it's very matted down. So not sure what to do??? Plus I am doubting It will be in good enough shape to do it before I throw down prodiamine. I dont know if its a good idea to do it afterwards?


----------



## Rucraz2

And yes we did get more snow last weekend. I'm in the SE part of MN. We didnt get the 30+that some got to the north. But we are getting another 5-8 tomorrow. Sounds like we are getting into the 50s coming this weekend. But dont know if the snow will be gone by the time the Forsythia blooms??


----------



## M_GEEZY MW




----------



## Rucraz2

Im still not seeing pics. Just the little image post thing. Its probably something on my end.


----------



## g-man

I see the pictures on my cell and pc. I can't see them from work because they are blocked by the firewall


----------



## Pete1313

M_GEEZY MW said:


>


With everyone anxious to get going this spring, and all the snow that Minnesota received, I wouldn't be surprised if someone had a picture of them actually in the snow with their mower! :lol:



Rucraz2 said:


> So you do just under 1.5 full tanks on the whole yard? I need to calibrate mine. But with my time restraints its not going to be as accurate as i like. So thats why I was asking.
> I just keep going back and forth about a tine dethatcher. I experimented and I left my grass at 3 inches last fall instead of cutting it down more. And it's very matted down. So not sure what to do??? Plus I am doubting It will be in good enough shape to do it before I throw down prodiamine. I dont know if its a good idea to do it afterwards?


Correct. Just under 1.5 tanks. Hard to tell if it needs to be raked or dethatched. Maybe a few pics might help. Would be better to put pre-m down afterwards if you can depending on how aggressive you get with raking/dethatching, If needed.



Rucraz2 said:


> And yes we did get more snow last weekend. I'm in the SE part of MN. We didnt get the 30+that some got to the north. But we are getting another 5-8 tomorrow. Sounds like we are getting into the 50s coming this weekend. But dont know if the snow will be gone by the time the Forsythia blooms??


For what it's worth, the Forsythia hasn't bloomed in NW Illinois yet. So you will have some time. Don't be focused on the notion that you need to put pre-m down the second the Forsythia blooms either. If you need to rake or dethatch and feel that you would be better off putting your pre-m down after you dethatch, then I would put it down after. Even if that means you put it down a week after the Forsythia blooms.


----------



## PokeGrande

Wow, what a thread. Over a course of the last week or so, was able to read through its entirety. Bravo, Pete.

:thumbsup:


----------



## Rucraz2

Snow is 98% gone in my yard, but still too wet too get out there and do anything yet. I did get a 20 gal tank with a 2 nozzle boom. I have been trying to fabricate something with hitch receivers and extensions. Till i found a guy with a welder who is going to help me make a bracket for it to mount on my rear bagging bracket. So it will be easy to take off and install when needed. I think I am going to be putting more liquids down this yr. So I am pretty pumped to get it done this week. Are the Forsythia blooming there yet? Im sure its getting close!


----------



## Pete1313

@PokeGrande thanks! And thanks for taking the time to read it. Lots of work left to do, and lots of spots that need to fill in. I don't think a KBG renovation is complete until you get to the fall after, one year later. I'm going to make a spring update in a bit, and then track progress with updates as it goes thru it's grow in year and establishes.

@Rucraz2 sounds like it will be a nice spray setup once it's done. No blooming forsythia in NW Illinois yet. Should be any day.


----------



## Rucraz2

And I can see your pics now.. not sure why I couldn't before. Looking forward to seeing what it looks like now. Hopefully I can get some pics of my sad looking NoMix this spring before i try and bring some life back to it.


----------



## Pete1313

Snapped some pics for a spring update! I gave the lawn what I'm considering it's first real cut of the season yesterday as there was growth from when I did the spring cleanup mow a couple weeks ago. Soil temps are just starting to go above 50°F at the 4" depth and am finally seeing some normal late April weather with temps in the mid 60's. I've been trying to keep busy getting some yard stuff done, but it has been tough during this extended winter. I have reestablished about 75% of the landscape bed edges, got my pre-m down, powered up the sprinklers and made sure everything was working properly, and built a new sandbox(I mean storage area for leveling sand ) that will hold 4 cu yds of sand.










The lawn seems to be in about the same shape it was in last fall, and the only damage is from the dogs. A few urine spots in the back and a few holes from digging. Overall the lawn looks good from the street level, but the aerial shots don't lye, their is work to do. I plan on starting up some N apps soon, and primo/FAS within a couple weeks, and will be building a new firepit in the back which will give me 45-50 sq ft of plugs to transfer into some bare spots. Here are some pics comparing the yard from last fall to where it is now. Still cutting at .75" HOC.

11/12/17








4/23/18









11/12/17








4/23/18









11/12/17








4/23/18









11/12/17








4/23/18









11/12/17








4/23/18









11/12/17








4/23/18









Here are the aerial pics.

11/12/17








4/23/18









11/12/17








4/23/18









11/12/17








4/23/18









11/12/17








4/23/18









11/12/17








4/23/18









11/12/17








4/23/18









As you can see, there are alot of spots that need to fill in. The front yard is farther along compared to the back. That is because the front yard is 100% sun and the backyard gets some afternoon shade, especially close to the house in the backyard. Bewitched is a shade tolerant KBG, but it still performs better in full sun. I plan to take monthly pictures to try and document how the bewitched spreads over the year. I am also taking some close ups of a couple of the worst areas and will update once I transplant plugs into them. I am also planning on spot leveling some of the worst areas with sand in about a month. I plan to keep the HOC at .75" at least until I do some leveling as it makes the spots that need sand easier to see. I'm anxious to get this year going and get it to fill in. Cold, slow start, but it should get going in a few weeks.


----------



## ericgautier

@Pete1313 those edges are looking amazing!


----------



## fusebox7

Wow @Pete1313 I can't believe how green it is already! We hit 70 here yesterday finally but our soil temps are still in the low 40s. My lawn is still very much brown and sleeping. The No-Mix lawns around me are awake and making me jealous. I know that it's nothing to do with my lawn though because the trees and everything are still sleeping as well. It was a long winter nap this year.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Great job defining those mulch beds. Very clean. With so much mulch area that must have taken a while. Everything is looking really good especially with how the weather has been.


----------



## wardconnor

I like. Looks super dark green. And those stripes? Dynamite


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks for the replies!



ericgautier said:


> Pete1313 those edges are looking amazing!





SNOWBOB11 said:


> Great job defining those mulch beds. Very clean. With so much mulch area that must have taken a while. Everything is looking really good especially with how the weather has been.


Getting the beds the way I want them is a top priority for me this year. I've spent 2 full days on them so far, and will take another day to define the few I have remaining. I have been removing alot of soil out of them and putting it in a few of the larger beds that border the yard. I have probably taken about 5 cu yds of soil from them so far. The echo bed redefiner is helping make some clean edges, and am hoping once I get them setup how I want, the redefiner will make maintaining them easier throughout the season.



fusebox7 said:


> Wow @Pete1313 I can't believe how green it is already! We hit 70 here yesterday finally but our soil temps are still in the low 40s. My lawn is still very much brown and sleeping. The No-Mix lawns around me are awake and making me jealous. I know that it's nothing to do with my lawn though because the trees and everything are still sleeping as well. It was a long winter nap this year.


It is surprising me how green it is already as well. My last bewitched renovation at my previous home woke up a few weeks later when compared to the NoMix lawns in the area the year after the reno.


----------



## social port

Pete1313 said:


> The echo bed redefiner is helping make some clean edges, and am hoping once I get them setup how I want, the redefiner will make maintaining them easier throughout the season.


Pete, are you finding that the bed redefiner produces better results than an edger? Does the redefiner provide a deeper cut? Is that the main perk?


----------



## Pete1313

social port said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The echo bed redefiner is helping make some clean edges, and am hoping once I get them setup how I want, the redefiner will make maintaining them easier throughout the season.
> 
> 
> 
> Pete, are you finding that the bed redefiner produces better results than an edger? Does the redefiner provide a deeper cut? Is that the main perk?
Click to expand...

The bed redefiner is producing good results, but is not the right tool for the job. A bed edger/bedscaper would be the proper tool and cut the edges faster and deeper. Especially true where I am cutting new edges. I bought the echo redefiner to help me maintain a clean edge thru the season and plan on using it at least every couple months to keep the edges sharp. I decided to try the redefiner to cut a new edge a few weeks back and liked the results, even though it is slower than an edger. So I decided to use it instead of renting an edger.


----------



## Rucraz2

So all you do is keep a clean cut edge in your beds? The previous owners have mostly rock around our front trees and red mulch on the back around the flower garden. But they are all edged with the black plastic rolled edging. Which needs to get redone here sometime. I finally got out yesterday and found a lot of vole damage in back. Im not sure what happened to this 20 x 20 section on our hill that is all dead. There are what looks like 3 large lumps of grass like a nest on the middle of it. But it is pretty much all dead matted grass that just rolls right off to bare dirt. Never seen anything like it?! I might post some pics if I can figure out how to. On a new post.


----------



## jessehurlburt

Rucraz2 said:


> So all you do is keep a clean cut edge in your beds? The previous owners have mostly rock around our front trees and red mulch on the back around the flower garden. But they are all edged with the black plastic rolled edging. Which needs to get redone here sometime. I finally got out yesterday and found a lot of vole damage in back. Im not sure what happened to this 20 x 20 section on our hill that is all dead. There are what looks like 3 large lumps of grass like a nest on the middle of it. But it is pretty much all dead matted grass that just rolls right off to bare dirt. Never seen anything like it?! I might post some pics if I can figure out how to. On a new post.


The nest could very well be a rabbit/vole nest. We found a grass nest last year at my brothers house and there were little bunnies under it. Later that afternoon we let his dog out without thinking and he found the nest and killed one of the bunnies. This was on easter no less. :?


----------



## chrisben

That sounds like grub damage.

Edit, Nvm, misread the part about the lumps, thought you were saying the whole 20x20 area had chunks rolling off.


----------



## wardconnor

Pete

Is that this below or something else that hooks up to the echo system?

https://youtu.be/ZR0PUHxyz0c


----------



## Pete1313

wardconnor said:


> Pete
> 
> Is that this below or something else that hooks up to the echo system?


That is a Bed edger/bedscaper and would make cutting new edges easier. I am using the Echo bed redefiner attachment 
https://www.echo-usa.com/Videos/Bed-Redefiner/Bed-Redefiner

The bedscaper would have done the job quicker/better and was considering renting one but with this cool wet/spring, timing a rental was tough and i was itching to get out and get them done. I purchased the Echo bed redefiner attachment to help me maintain the edge during the season but tried it out cutting a new bed (which it is not designed for) and it did a good enough job that I decided to use it for the whole yard.


----------



## wardconnor

Is that an individual machine or an attachment for their PAS type setup?

Is there another set up/attachment for that echo PAS system that accomplishes the same thing with the same quality as the rental machine that you mentioned and that I posted from YouTube?


----------



## Pete1313

wardconnor said:


> Is that an individual machine or an attachment for their PAS type setup?
> 
> Is there another set up/attachment for that echo PAS system that accomplishes the same thing with the same quality as the rental machine that you mentioned and that I posted from YouTube?


I have their PAS bed redefiner mounted to a PAS-2620. 
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=436&start=420#p40430 It cuts an edge about 3" deep and does take some power to run and is why it's suggested to use their bigger engine units. Stihl also makes a bed redefiner, but those are the only two I believe that are available.


----------



## Rucraz2

chrisben said:


> That sounds like grub damage.
> 
> Edit, Nvm, misread the part about the lumps, thought you were saying the whole 20x20 area had chunks rolling off.


Pretty much a majority of the whole area is rolling off to bare dirt. I did see some more vole trails heading to it yesterday that I didnt see before. I didnt realize they cold do that much damage.? Looks like all the voles in the area had a family reunion in my yard. But there are a handful of these "nests" in the middle of it. I havent raked it as I am trying to let it dry as much as I can before I do. But it does not look good. Granted this is my first winter in this property, but I didn't cut it down much shorter for winter following some others advice. Dont think I will do that again given how it looks so far this spring. I dont think I am alone in having a rough looking yard though looking through the neighborhood.

On a side note. I was looking at doing a speedometer like you pete, but found a pretty accurate gps app that has a Speedo that I can see on my phone. I was testing it yesterday when I got that bracket for the tank I had made.


----------



## g-man

Bumping from page 8. No new pictures? I know it just been 2 weeks since the last update, but we are having great growing weather.


----------



## Pete1313

g-man said:


> Bumping from page 8. No new pictures? I know it just been 2 weeks since the last update, but we are having great growing weather.


Alright! 

Basically growing and mowing. Soil temps have gone from 50°F at 4" to staying steady at 65°F, and is in spring flush mode. On 4/29 I gave it the first Primo dose of the year at .3 oz/M and mixed in FAS, humic acid, kelp, and a NIS. To be honest I didn't get the response I typically see from primo/FAS and could be a combination of things. I finished off a bottle of generic primo that had a date code from 2014 (purchased spring 2015) so the primo could have been alittle old. I have a fresh bottle to use the next time I apply. I also didn't get the same response from the FAS I typically see and wonder if tank mixing in the humic acid or kelp could have caused the issues? Either way I'll take those out of the tank next time and just stick with primo/iron.

I just bumped up the HOC to 7/8" to give me alittle more room between mowings. Right now at 7/8" I'm getting about 3-4 days between mows. I was cutting off alittle too much at a time at 3/4" and it was hard to get out more than 2x a week to mow. Hopefully a fresh bottle of Primo and getting past the flush will get growth back in check.

I have applied a couple small apps of a urea/SOP blend that I mixed together and the amounts that I mixed make it a 28-0-20. On 4/29 I put down about .28 lb/M of N and .2 lb/M of K and did that again on 5/6.

I have been noticing some clover popping up and was the main weed I battled when first moving in to the house in 2016. It was enough that warranted a blanket app, so on 5/7 I applied 61.6% triclopyr at a 27.5 oz/acre rate. Other than the clover, the only other weed I have spotted has been some poa annua but have only found a few so I have been hand pulling those when I do my scouting (aka picking up dog poop).

I have a few logs going this year and am not only tracking what I apply like I have in the past, but am also tracking ET rates and how much water I put down combined with rainfall. I'm currently trying to water the 100% sun zones at 90% of ET when it reaches a .5" deficit and am doing about 63% ET in a couple of the shade zones in the back. Interesting to track, and I'll see if I can stretch those numbers a bit more by fall. I'm also tracking GDD and when I apply primo and will try to stick to a GDD based application interval.

Other than that, I have been spending time getting all the mulch beds done. All the edge defining is done and on 4/30 I put a combo of prodiamine/isoxaben down in all the beds. The pre-m was alittle late for the beds but wanted to wait to get it down until all the edges were cut. As a result I had to spot spray some early sprouting grassy weeds with glyphosate and then on 5/5 put down 30 cu yds of mulch. There are a couple more beds that need to be mulched in the back and will get those done this weekend (weather permitting). With last year's mulch and now more this year, I should have the beds where I want them so I can hopefully just turn the mulch next year and only have to add every other year.

Lastly, here are some pics. Mowed yesterday. No official update to show how it's spreading. I will do those in a couple weeks. Color is not what I'm looking for, but it is a young lawn and hope I can darken it up a bit with the next primo/iron app.


----------



## pennstater2005

Pete1313 said:


> Color is not what I'm looking for


Are you kidding me 

Now, your neighbor's lawns....*that's* not the color you're looking for.

I kid.

It looks great and seems to be filling in from looking at past pics. Clover is mostly what I have popping up as well. Can't wait to see it darken up with a little more time and the next primo/iron app.

Good job :thumbup:


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Looking great pete. Can't believe you made us have to wait so long between updates.  Are you going to be doing a app of tenacity this year? Or are you just going to continue hand pulling any poa? Great job on those mulch beds by the way.


----------



## social port

Redtenchu said:


>


 :thumbup:


----------



## fusebox7

Oh yasssss. Gonna be a fun year watching it mature  Nice work my man!


----------



## g-man

It is looking great.

I did 0.4 rate on primo and it is growing more than I expected. Ill hit gdd 300 next week and debating if I should go higher or stick with it.


----------



## Pete1313

pennstater2005 said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Color is not what I'm looking for
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding me
> 
> Now, your neighbor's lawns....*that's* not the color you're looking for.
> 
> I kid.
> 
> It looks great and seems to be filling in from looking at past pics. Clover is mostly what I have popping up as well. Can't wait to see it darken up with a little more time and the next primo/iron app.
> 
> Good job :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Thanks pennstater! It was a long winter and am glad it's finally getting going. The wife asked me a couple of days ago when the spots will start filling in, told her to have patience and I would start transplanting plugs soon. Showed her tonight where there were already some new daughter plants in some of the bare spots.. it's starting!



SNOWBOB11 said:


> Looking great pete. Can't believe you made us have to wait so long between updates.  Are you going to be doing a app of tenacity this year? Or are you just going to continue hand pulling any poa? Great job on those mulch beds by the way.


Thanks snowbob! Right now I am not planning on any tenacity this spring. I am not seeing enough poa yet. With that said, on 5/4 I wasn't planning on a blanket app of triclopyr, yet on 5/7 I sprayed it. We will see how it goes.



social port said:


> Redtenchu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :thumbup:
Click to expand...

 :lol:



fusebox7 said:


> Oh yasssss. Gonna be a fun year watching it mature  Nice work my man!


Still work to do, and lots to fill in, but the hard work is over. Time to let KBG do it's thing!



g-man said:


> It is looking great.
> 
> I did 0.4 rate on primo and it is growing more than I expected. Ill hit gdd 300 next week and debating if I should go higher or stick with it.


Thanks g-man. I'm not sure if I will go up or not. I am debating as well. I might try another .3 oz/M app with the new primo bottle first. If I can get by with less and get the results I want I will stay at a lower rate. Spraying on 38k adds up. Looks like it will be time to reapply around 5/15.


----------



## Seeking_Turf

Looking great Pete!!! Your missing one thing thou... Where is flag pole #19? :lol: :thumbup:


----------



## Fishnugget

Agreed, lawn looks great!


----------



## GoPre

Sweet. I am also going by GDD for primo. Do you guys plan on spraying 3 days out from target date since PGR takes a few to really kick in?


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## wardconnor

Super dark green. Looks great


----------



## Pete1313

Seeking_Turf said:


> Looking great Pete!!! Your missing one thing thou... Where is flag pole #19? :lol: :thumbup:


Thanks! I do have a flagpole and cup, but you can't stick it in the fairway?.. maybe someday I'll have a spot for it.



Fishnugget said:


> Agreed, lawn looks great!


Thanks! Not where I want it yet, but it will get there.



GoPre said:


> Sweet. I am also going by GDD for primo. Do you guys plan on spraying 3 days out from target date since PGR takes a few to really kick in?


The way I interpret it is the target day is when you want to apply to avoid the rebound. So for a .3 oz/M rate I would reapply once the GDD counter reached 287 GDD base 0°C (516 GDD base 32°F). If I applied at a .4 oz/M rate I would reapply at 300 GDD base 0°C (540 GDD base 32°F). Those numbers are for KBG. @g-man, do you agree?



wardconnor said:


> Super dark green. Looks great


Thanks wardconnor. It should get darker over time.


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## J_nick

Looking good Pete, I was starting to get worried about you


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## Pete1313

J_nick said:


> Looking good Pete, I was starting to get worried about you


Thanks J_nick! No need to worry.


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## HoosierLawnGnome

Looking good Pete! I hate mowing low and watching the color go down a level but you cant beat the look and texture!


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## Togo

The lawn is looking amazing! I can't believe how thick it already looks in those close up pictures.


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## zeus201

Looking great Pete!


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## SNOWBOB11

@Pete1313 one quick question when you get a chance. I see you were killing your clover with 61.6% triclopyr. I am trying to kill some clover for my next door neighbor and I can't get the weed b gon cco with 8% Triclopyr but I can get this https://www.seedworldusa.com/products/triclopyr-4-herbicide-1-quart. It has the same ingredient 61.6% Triclopyr as what you used. Would you think I could use it on there no mix lawn too without any damage? Sorry not trying to be a bother but I know you know your stuff.


----------



## Pete1313

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Pete1313 one quick question when you get a chance. I see you were killing your clover with 61.6% triclopyr. I am trying to kill some clover for my next door neighbor and I can't get the weed b gon cco with 8% Triclopyr but I can get this https://www.seedworldusa.com/products/triclopyr-4-herbicide-1-quart. It has the same ingredient 61.6% Triclopyr as what you used. Would you think I could use it on there no mix lawn too without any damage? Sorry not trying to be a bother but I know you know your stuff.


I don't see any reason why you can't use it, but the rates on the website you linked to are wrong. Read the label and the rate should be 16-32 oz/acre for triclopyr 61.6% on turf (3/8-3/4 oz/M). A 1 gallon/M carrier of water should work well.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Pete1313 said:


> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pete1313 one quick question when you get a chance. I see you were killing your clover with 61.6% triclopyr. I am trying to kill some clover for my next door neighbor and I can't get the weed b gon cco with 8% Triclopyr but I can get this https://www.seedworldusa.com/products/triclopyr-4-herbicide-1-quart. It has the same ingredient 61.6% Triclopyr as what you used. Would you think I could use it on there no mix lawn too without any damage? Sorry not trying to be a bother but I know you know your stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see any reason why you can't use it, but the rates on the website you linked to are wrong. Read the label and the rate should be 16-32 oz/acre for triclopyr 61.6% on turf (3/8-3/4 oz/M). A 1 gallon/M carrier of water should work well.
Click to expand...

Thank you Pete. Appreciate your help.


----------



## Pete1313

SNOWBOB11 said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SNOWBOB11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pete1313 one quick question when you get a chance. I see you were killing your clover with 61.6% triclopyr. I am trying to kill some clover for my next door neighbor and I can't get the weed b gon cco with 8% Triclopyr but I can get this https://www.seedworldusa.com/products/triclopyr-4-herbicide-1-quart. It has the same ingredient 61.6% Triclopyr as what you used. Would you think I could use it on there no mix lawn too without any damage? Sorry not trying to be a bother but I know you know your stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see any reason why you can't use it, but the rates on the website you linked to are wrong. Read the label and the rate should be 16-32 oz/acre for triclopyr 61.6% on turf (3/8-3/4 oz/M). A 1 gallon/M carrier of water should work well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you Pete. Appreciate your help.
Click to expand...

 :thumbsup:


----------



## ABC123

Looks great Pete!!

Did you happen to notice if the primo is limiting growth on new shoots vs already cut ones? Just trying to think of other possibility's as this article says they found 5% root uptake.

https://scholars.opb.msu.edu/en/publications/14c-trinexapac-ethyl-absorption-and-translocation-in-kentucky-blu-3


----------



## Pete1313

ABC123 said:


> Looks great Pete!!
> 
> Did you happen to notice if the primo is limiting growth on new shoots vs already cut ones? Just trying to think of other possibility's as this article says they found 5% root uptake.
> 
> https://scholars.opb.msu.edu/en/publications/14c-trinexapac-ethyl-absorption-and-translocation-in-kentucky-blu-3


No, all the growth looks to be fairly even.


----------



## ericgautier

@Pete1313 looking awesome! :thumbsup:


----------



## GrassFarmer

lookin good, how much more urea are you going to put down before summer?


----------



## Pete1313

GrassFarmer said:


> lookin good, how much more urea are you going to put down before summer?


Not exactly sure on how much, but will keep at the weekly urea feedings for at least a few more weeks before switching to some Milorganite.


----------



## Piwko4

Pete1313 said:


> The way I interpret it is the target day is when you want to apply to avoid the rebound. So for a .3 oz/M rate I would reapply once the GDD counter reached 287 GDD base 0°C (516 GDD base 32°F). If I applied at a .4 oz/M rate I would reapply at 300 GDD base 0°C (540 GDD base 32°F). Those numbers are for KBG. g-man, do you agree?


Can you elaborate on how you get the GDD base? Also, how much urea/SOP are you putting down weekly? Thx


----------



## Piwko4

Pete1313 said:


> I have applied a couple small apps of a urea/SOP blend that I mixed together and the amounts that I mixed make it a 28-0-20. On 4/29 I put down about .28 lb/M of N and .2 lb/M of K and did that again on 5/6.


Please forgive me, but what are lb/M? And how did you get a urea/SOP blend at 28-0-20? Isnt urea 46-0-0 and SOP 0-0-60?


----------



## Pete1313

Piwko4 said:


> Can you elaborate on how you get the GDD base? Also, how much urea/SOP are you putting down weekly? Thx


No problem, and welcome to TLF!
Here is a link to some info from UNL describing 
How to calculate GDD. 
https://turf.unl.edu/turfinfo/9-28_GDD_Calcs.pdf
From the research, 0°C/32°F is the temp where no/little trinexapac-ethyl is metabolized on cool season turf and used as the base. And here is a thread on TE and GDD.
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1670



Piwko4 said:


> Please forgive me, but what are lb/M? And how did you get a urea/SOP blend at 28-0-20? Isnt urea 46-0-0 and SOP 0-0-60?


Lb/M = Lb per 1000 square feet. Sulfate of potash (SOP) is 0-0-50. I blended at 60% urea and 40% SOP. Since both that i get are the same SGN it blends and flows easily.


----------



## Pete1313

I apologize as I've been slacking on the updates.

I applied some generic primo from a new bottle of T-nex and mixed it with a liquid Iron product I'm trying out (Ferromec AC) on 5/14. I increased the primo rate to .4 oz/M. It confirmed that my old bottle of podium was too old as the .4 oz/M rate really put on the brakes... actually too much as I think I went almost a week between mowing. The lack of growth was at a bad time as we have had some abnormally hot and humid weather. I spotted dollar spot scattered throughout he yard and the lack of growth combined with dollar spot probability being really high (over 30%) forced me to start up a fungicide plan and on 5/26 I put down some propiconazole.

Some pics of the lesions I was seeing on 5/26.













































Here is an aerial shot of the backyard that had most of the lesions on 5/26. As you can see, it wasn't too bad, but I didn't want to take any chances. If you look close you can see the off color areas.










The blanket spray of triclopyr did an awesome job of clearing out all of the clover, and the only other weed I had an issue with were these guys by the edge of the street.





































The best that it could be Id'd is barnyardgrass that just looks different because of the low cut. I was going to play with some quinclorac to see if it would take them out but they were so easy to hand pull and now they are all gone.

When I've had some free time, I have been stealing plugs from an area in the far back area of the backyard. I am clearing out the circle to build a new firepit in the next few weeks and hope the plugs will take hold and fill in some of the worst of the bare areas.














































I have been continuing on my apps of my blended urea/SOP mix and have applied more of it on 5/19, 5/27, 6/2. I also just put down another dose of T-Nex and Ferromec AC on 6/2. I lowered the dose on the T-nex this time to .2 oz/M. Knowing that I have a good fresh bottle and that I don't want to over apply again, i will start with this rate and slowly adjust to where I want to be at. Finally here are some current picks from this evening. I will try and take all the pics from the usual angles in a couple weeks to document how it's filling in.

Current HOC is 13/16"


----------



## GrassFarmer

Im also seeing similar disease pressure lookin good pete.


----------



## GrassFarmer

How much nitrogen are you up to for this year? It seems like Bewitched really likes the N


----------



## Pete1313

GrassFarmer said:


> How much nitrogen are you up to for this year? It seems like Bewitched really likes the N


Including the app I put down yesterday, the total is up to 1.5 lbs/M of Nitrogen.


----------



## ericgautier

Looking awesome Pete!


----------



## J_nick

These photos remind me of some of mine

Looks like it bounced back and looks great though.


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks EG and J_nick!
@J_nick regarding your pgr overdose, wondering if you saw the same things I saw. Not just the lack of growth, but a general browning and the shredded leaf tips from lack of growth?


----------



## J_nick

I don't particularly remember the shredded leaf tips but I'm not saying they weren't there. Everywhere was brownish, sickly, dingy and dull looking with no growth for a while. I'm spraying at .2oz/1000 this year and although I've only sprayed once it is working as it should. I'm at 114%  on the greenkeeperapp right now so I need to put down a dose like yesterday, plan to spray later today.


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## slash8118

Lawn looks great Pete, can you share what your fungicide regimen will be for the rest of the summer in regards to dollar spot. Im in East TN and also have a bewitched mono. Last summer was my first after the reno and got dollar spot really bad. Already seeing it this year as well


----------



## g-man

A kbg mono in TN? I'm interested to see pictures. How old is it?

FYI, I'm using a model that tries to predict dollar spot pressure in your lawn so you could roll or do something to prevent damage. Greenkeeperapp.com has it. I'm using my own log/data to be more precise.


----------



## Pete1313

slash8118 said:


> Lawn looks great Pete, can you share what your fungicide regimen will be for the rest of the summer in regards to dollar spot. Im in East TN and also have a bewitched mono. Last summer was my first after the reno and got dollar spot really bad. Already seeing it this year as well


To be honest I'm not exactly sure what I will do regarding a fungicide regimen yet. I have propiconazole, and can get iprodione and thiophanate-methyl that is a 20 minute drive away, but I think right now I might just observe and see what happens. What I saw is now gone, but dollar spot pressure is down now as well. Hopefully I'm not chasing it all year. I wonder if the over-regulation of Primo might have contributed to it, so now that I have that under control I might just see what happens. I would hate to just throw on a bunch of chemical fungicides if they are not needed. I am paying more attention to the smith-kerns dollar spot prediction model like @g-man, and although I can't drag hoses like him, I have been syringing in the early morning to knock some of the dew off the grass.


----------



## slash8118

@@Pete1313 what app are you guys using to track that? interested to try it out


----------



## g-man

@slash8118 3 options.

1) Greenkeeperapp.com it gives you the current, but not the graph.

2) turfhacker.com posted a Google sheets that keeps track of it. It connects to weather underground and creates the graphs daily.

3) I took his and improved it with soil data too. https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1670&start=40


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## Pete1313

Im using the turfhacker.com one. You need a weather underground API key. @g-man the API keys are no longer free, correct?


----------



## g-man

They are not. I'm working on a revision that uses Aeris, but it is not as good.


----------



## Pete1313

g-man said:


> They are not. I'm working on a revision that uses Aeris, but it is not as good.


Thanks. At least if you already have a key they still work.. for now.

Looks like dollar spot risk is going back up in the next couple days here.


----------



## g-man

I changed my action threshold to 35% and I will hit 50% in a few days. I had two spots that I found today.


----------



## g-man

100 gallons of round up in 4 gallon backpack sprayer? That's 25 refills! Hopefully not hand pumping.


----------



## Pete1313

@Carl Spackler Welcome to TLF! Lots of information here, and people like you and me that are passionate about lawncare. You should make a lawn reno thread as you are already on your way. I would enjoy following your progress. Thanks for the kind words and taking the time to read my reno thread! It is a work in progress, and I plan on posting an update this weekend showing some of its progress.



Carl Spackler said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 100 gallons of round up in 4 gallon backpack sprayer? That's 25 refills! Hopefully not hand pumping.
> 
> 
> 
> of course it was. My Left shoulder (pump arm) was bruised because of the default straps. I had tried rolled up towels under the straps on my shoulders. Like normal, I found a better replacement after the fact. I knew that would be the worst part of the job. Hopefully for anyone even thinking about a job like that, spring for a good sprayer. This retrofit to my Chapin with a little modification. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MY1YLJZ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Click to expand...

100 gallons with a pump backpack. :shock:
I know you plan on spot spraying what you missed, do you plan on doing another blanket glyphosate app just before you seed? If so you can get by with a 2 gallon of water carrier per 1000 sq ft and still get results, cutting your spray volume in half. I used 8.5 oz per 1000 sq ft of 41% glyphosate in a 2 gallon per 1000 sq ft carrier.


----------



## Pete1313

No need for apologies. Thanks for the kind words. When you have time check out some other members threads. There are lots of other impressive lawns as well! The bewitched is doing good in the shady areas, but I have to admit that most of the lawn is full sun to just part shade. Regarding roundup before seeding, it's not crazy talk. I sprayed a blanket app the night before seeding. The goal is to keep the seed bed as clean as possible just before seeding. Timing mesotrione apps and a strong pre-m plan have also helped keep my renovation relatively weed free to date.


----------



## g-man

You can spray round up on the seeds and it wont do any harm.


----------



## Pete1313

With today being the first day of summer, I think it's time to give an update to see how the lawn is filling in. So far on the year I have put down 1.8 lbs/M of nitrogen from urea and 1.2 lbs/M of potassium from SOP. It is slowly filling in the gaps. I dropped the HOC down to 11/16" and plan on dropping it more this weekend as I plan on leveling out some of the irrigation trenches that have settled and are becoming noticable. As you go lower, the imperfections are easier to see and will be easier to spot level with sand. I had 10 yards of sand delivered,









And although some is planned for the sand box and a base for a firepit that I will build as well this weekend,


















There will still be about 6-7 yards left over to level out spots like these trenches that are becoming easier to see at the lower HOC.



























Overall about 80% of the lawn is starting to look like this,


















But I will keep pushing until I can get that number closer to 100%. I wish I had the time to micro manage some of the bare areas to fill In faster. But with a larger yard we will just let them do their thing and keep updating how they are filling in. I plan on giving an update this weekend after I am done with the sand and then show progress on how I get those trench lines and some of the other low spots to disappear.

Here are some pictures of the progress the lawn has made from the beginning of the season on April 23rd to today.

4/23/18








6/21/18









4/23/18








6/21/18









4/23/18








6/21/18









4/23/18








6/21/18









4/23/18








6/21/18









4/23/18








6/21/18









Here are some aerial pics.

4/23/18








6/21/18









4/23/18








6/21/18









4/23/18








6/21/18









4/23/18








6/21/18









4/23/18








6/21/18









4/23/18








6/21/18


----------



## SNOWBOB11

You can really see how much the grass has spread from your pics. It is looking great at that hight of cut. The colour is looking great too. Nice job Pete.

Are you still dropping urea, or are you done until fall?


----------



## Ware

Looking great Pete! :thumbsup:


----------



## Colonel K0rn

In all seriousness, you've got an amazing looking yard. I look forward to having a yard that size, and will strive to get it to this level of awesomeness.


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks @Ware! 
@Colonel K0rn :lol:



SNOWBOB11 said:


> You can really see how much the grass has spread from your pics. It is looking great at that hight of cut. The colour is looking great too. Nice job Pete.
> 
> Are you still dropping urea, or are you done until fall?


thanks Snowbob! It felt good to get the pics up to show side by side, and is doing a decent job spreading but still has work to do. I need to do a better job of taking pics with the same lighting, the current pics are darker in person then they show.

Regarding the urea, I might do one more small dose around .28 lb/M of N. I'm not sure yet. I also want to start putting down some Milo soon.


----------



## wardconnor

Absolutely beautiful Pete. Hard for me to believe it is that thick and dense already. The beauty of low cut turf. Thick and dense.

Makes me want to renovate with a monostand.


----------



## Pete1313

wardconnor said:


> Absolutely beautiful Pete. Hard for me to believe it is that thick and dense already. The beauty of low cut turf. Thick and dense.
> 
> Makes me want to renovate with a monostand.


Thanks wardconnor! Funny you say that because following your thread, and how easy PRG stripes, gives me the itch to slice in some PRG.



Colonel K0rn said:


> In all seriousness, you've got an amazing looking yard. I look forward to having a yard that size, and will strive to get it to this level of awesomeness.


Thanks Colonel! Sorry I missed this when I was distracted and chuckling about your meme. The larger yard is nice, but i do miss managing a smaller yard like my last home at times. I have said this before, but managing a larger yard compared to smaller one I imagine would be similar to a golf superintendent managing a fairway compared to his greens. There are lots of things I would want to do, but time and budget limit what can be done. Two things I wish I could do would be to do multiple rounds of topdressings on the whole lawn and maybe manage some of the bare areas better by maybe seeding, topdressing, and hand watering. Instead I'm limited to fixing and spot leveling the areas that are noticeable and just plugging bare spots and letting them fill in over time.


----------



## Alan

Pete1313 said:


> [snipped] I have said this before, but managing a larger yard compared to smaller one I imagine would be similar to a golf superintendent managing a fairway compared to his greens.


Great analogy.



Pete1313 said:


> There are lots of things I would want to do, but time and budget limit what can be done. Two things I wish I could do would be to do multiple rounds of topdressings on the whole lawn and maybe manage some of the bare areas better by maybe seeding, topdressing, and hand watering. Instead I'm limited to fixing and spot leveling the areas that are noticeable and just plugging bare spots and letting them fill in over time.


Ain't that the truth. Sometimes I wish my yard was smaller, especially when it's hot as hell.

Looking good Pete.


----------



## pennstater2005

How are you supposed to play basketball with all that sand in the way @Pete1313 . I suppose you could run up the sand pile to dunk it :lol:


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks @Alan!



pennstater2005 said:


> How are you supposed to play basketball with all that sand in the way Pete1313 . I suppose you could run up the sand pile to dunk it :lol:


The kids were doing that when I came home from work after it was delivered. Mother nature put an end to that though with all the rain she put down this week!


----------



## llO0DQLE

Looking great! Hey Pete, if you don't mind, I'd like to pick your brain a little. What would you say is the main reason you like close mowed KBG? Aside from it resembling a sports playing field. Is it denser? More tightly knit? What do you have to say about the commonly held belief that taller KBG = darker? Can you attain the same dark green with the close mow or will it always be slightly lighter than if you let it grow taller, all other things equal (same fertilizer inputs, watering etc)?


----------



## wardconnor

Definitely way more dense and tightly knit. I like the look, touch, and feel better.

Dark green? I can not speak to that one. My lawn is the greenest in my neighborhood and by far the shortest. I would bet that Petes lawn is the same.


----------



## llO0DQLE

Thanks @wardconnor , I was thinking of asking the same question on your journal. That's what I was thinking, I feel like I've noticed in the pics here and your YT vids that close mown turf seems to be denser and more closely knit together. It is definitely growing on me but I do really like the very dark blue green hues I see with the taller cut. Every time I adjust to a lower HOC, I see the color drop but I'm wondering if the grass just needs to spend more time staying at that lower cut to eventually get back to the dark blue green tone of the higher cut. With my short growing season, it may take a couple years of keeping the grass at a lower HOC to really see if the color improves.


----------



## Pete1313

llO0DQLE said:


> Looking great! Hey Pete, if you don't mind, I'd like to pick your brain a little. What would you say is the main reason you like close mowed KBG? Aside from it resembling a sports playing field. Is it denser? More tightly knit? What do you have to say about the commonly held belief that taller KBG = darker? Can you attain the same dark green with the close mow or will it always be slightly lighter than if you let it grow taller, all other things equal (same fertilizer inputs, watering etc)?


Like @wardconnor said it is denser and tightly knit. As far as color, you are correct, with all inputs being the same longer will be alittle darker. But it is not as drastic as you think. At my previous home I had bewitched as well. 1.5 years after seed down I was mowing it at 9/16" and looked very dark still.

Why do I like the shorter turf? Besides the density, the look, and feel, it does remind me of some of the sports fields I played on. I think another reason for me though is how the shorter turf plays. Whether it is hitting some grounders to them or playing soccer, the kids and I play in the yard alot and the ball rolls really smooth. Much more predictable than the hopping and skipping the ball does in higher cut turf. I have 2 dogs as well and also like that when I pick up the poop I can spot it from 300 ft away! :lol:


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## llO0DQLE

Lol about the poop. It's probably easier to pick it up too as it doesn't get buried and smooshed into long blades. Thanks for explaining.


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## fusebox7

Looks awesome. This is the time of year that KBG is shifting gears to rhizome production and we'll see the "2nd wave" of plants start to shoot up from now until late August...then we hit it with the "fall nitrogen blitz to thicken up the new plants. Cheers to summer-survival mode! Now let's get this elite KBG filling in the rest of our gaps


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## PNW_George

Coming in great Pete1313! I remember the beautiful lawn at your other house. That is a big patch of ground to duplicate your previous excellent lawn. Impressive.


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## Pete1313

Thanks @PNW_George and @fusebox7! 
I agree let's get the rest of these gaps closed up!

Sunday funday! Started the morning out building a firepit.



















In the pics you can see how much of a slope the yard is on as the firepit is level. I also put 3-4 yards of sand in the sandbox.



















After the sandbox and firepit, this is how much sand is left.










I have been working on getting the HOC down to add some sand to some low spots, mowed it down to 9/16" today. It lost some color, but not terrible for dropping it down so quick.



















I then took the leveling rake and filled all the low spots with sand on half of the yard.























































I will water that side of the yard tonight to help work the sand down, and took the day off of work tomorrow to do the other half of the yard. The sand pile is shrinking. Here is how much is left.


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## SNOWBOB11

Man pete that's a lot of work for one day. Looks good. I like the fire pit.

Question for you. I was just wondering what your thoughts are on sand leveling a lawn that isn't cut with a reel. I'm wanting to do some leveling with my lawn later next month and I'm not sure whether I should use sand or soil or a mix. I'm currently at 2.5" HOC.

There are also a couple areas I think I'm going to put a little seed down. Not much just a couple bare areas that I'd like to fill in. How do you feel about seeds germinating in sand? In the few areas I want to seed should I put soil instead?

The idea is to get the lawn to be a bit less bumpy because I'm going to be getting a JD greens mower either end of this year or next to start cutting low.

Your thoughts would be appreciated if you get a chance.


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## Pete1313

Thanks @SNOWBOB11! I think whether you cut it with a rotary or reel, you need to get the HOC down to 1". The lower the better. At 2.5" the grass will flop over when sand is put on top and will be hard to work it down between the grass blades. Seeds will germinate in the sand, but a mix will work as well. You could also add some peat to the sand in the areas you want to spot seed to add alittle moisture holding ability if you want. Also, congrats in advance on the reel mower!

Finished the other half of the yard today filling in some low spots and visible trench lines. Still had a couple yards of sand left over so I spread it across the 3000 sq ft of the back yard that is the flattest in the yard where we play alot of sports. Dusted off the old drag setup and went to work.










Here is the spot after a few rounds of dragging.










The sand was alittle wet still, so I let it dry for an hour and then dragged it some more.










I used the leveling rake on the other parts of the yard and here are some pics of the areas when I was all done.





































After I was done I dropped 396lbs of milorganite(.6lb/M of N and .4lb/M of P) and am watering it all in right now. I forgot to mention I'm in rebound from PGR as I haven't applied any trinexapac-ethyl since 6/2. The last time I did a leveling project I timed the rebound and it worked well to help the grass grow thru the sand. The plan is to let it grow up a bit from the 9/16" cut and resume mowing at 11/16-3/4" HOC.


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Thanks for the response @Pete1313.


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## kolbasz

It is awesome when we are talking in 1/16 of an inch when it comes to growth. its a whole new level


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## Pete1313

kolbasz said:


> It is awesome when we are talking in 1/16 of an inch when it comes to growth. its a whole new level


What is also cool is how just dropping the HOC 1/16" produces an impressive amount of clippings when you are dropping it down.

Wanted to show alittle update to the area I did a full leveling job on. 1.6" of rain fell between Monday night and Tuesday night, and really helped work the sand in. I'm really excited to see how this area turns out as so far it is looking really good. In the rest of the trench lines the sand has pretty much disappeared into the canopy already. I plan on giving some more updates to this area as it fills in to show how a leveling job recovers. Looking thru the grass blades it appears I put down right about 1/4" of sand on this area.

6/25








6/28









6/25








6/28


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## kolbasz

Looks like the rain helped a bit


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## Pete1313

Here are a couple pics of the area 1 week later. Pretty much recovered from the sand. You can still see(and feel) the one irrigation trench line that runs across the area, which is impressive after all the sand that was put down. I'll touch up that trench line in a few weeks with more sand.

7/3








7/3


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## pennstater2005

Looks great @Pete1313! It seems like everything you do is a massive undertaking :lol:


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## Pete1313

Thanks @pennstater2005. There are still those annoying bare spots. I'm looking forward to fall when I can push the lawn a bit and get them to fill in.


----------



## gm560

Hey @Pete1313 . I am reading your thread for probably the 25th time as I am gearing up for my much smaller reno. Thank you for keeping such great notes, it is a tremendous resource. Sorry if this isn't the best place for questions. I see you seeded at a little over 2 lbs per 1k. Curious the thought process there. Was that for economical reasons or something else? I get that 38k sqft worth of Bewtiched ain't cheap. I am planning on 3-4 lbs per 1k on my 6k yard and curious if I am going too heavy.


----------



## Pete1313

@gm560 thanks for reading my reno thread! I seeded at about 2 lbs per 1000 sq ft and is right in the middle of the recommended seed rate of 1-3 lbs/M for 100% KBG. 
http://safesportsfields.cals.cornell.edu/seeding-rates
I think the rate I chose worked well. I still have a few areas I'm working on getting to fill in, but those areas were not because of seed rate. They were from too much standing water(puddling) and the rest were caused by the mower around the trees where the young seedlings couldn't handle the turning of the triplex. In the rest of the areas the grass is pretty much done filling in and I would not want it to be any thicker. Too high of a seed rate could also increase your chances of fungus issues in a young lawn. For your Reno I think 3 lbs/M is fine but 4lbs/M might be alittle too heavy for 100% KBG.


----------



## gm560

Awesome, thanks! I think I'll target between 2 and 3 lbs. That should leave me with some extra of all the cultivars in my mix.


----------



## JDgreen18

I'm in the process of doing my reno now. I have been thinking about this. If you are planting 100 percent kbg should the rate you put down be adjusted by the germination rate. So if you have seed that has 85% vs 90% in theory you would have to plant more of the 85% to get the same rate as the 90%
Using say 10 pounds of seed to make it easy 
At 85% you will get 8.5 pounds vs 9 pounds with the 90% of germination. Am I thinking this right?


----------



## g-man

I would not overthink this. Kbg spreads and less is more with kbg. Too dense leads to fungus. 2lb/k is fine. Save seeds for a wash out.


----------



## Pete1313

JDgreen18 said:


> I'm in the process of doing my reno now. I have been thinking about this. If you are planting 100 percent kbg should the rate you put down be adjusted by the germination rate. So if you have seed that has 85% vs 90% in theory you would have to plant more of the 85% to get the same rate as the 90%
> Using say 10 pounds of seed to make it easy
> At 85% you will get 8.5 pounds vs 9 pounds with the 90% of germination. Am I thinking this right?


You are thinking correctly, but like @g-man said don't overthink it. 1-3 lbs/M is a good recommendation, and 2 lbs/M worked well for me.


----------



## g-man

Pete, it been almost a year. I have a question. What's your opinion on the betwitched in the full sun areas? I understand it is good in the shade, but what about the sunny areas?


----------



## Pete1313

g-man said:


> Pete, it been almost a year. I have a question. What's your opinion on the betwitched in the full sun areas? I understand it is good in the shade, but what about the sunny areas?


Bewitched is more shade tolerant than other KBG cultivars, but don't confuse that with it not being ideal for full sun areas. It loves full sun(and so do all KBG cultivars). My full sun areas are done and look beautiful! Bewitched is used in a mix at Toyota Park here(where the Chicago Fire play) and suspect it to be in the blend used at Wrigley Field. Both are full sun traffic areas and look beautiful as well.


----------



## fusebox7

@Pete1313 I saw this video and thought of you as you'll eventually want 25 acres of Bewitched and will need this to mow it


----------



## Drryantsmith

Your lawn looks amazing, Pete! I have recently renovated our front lawn following most of what you did. I did thatch heavily and added a mostly sand topsoil to top dress. The reno was done this spring, and everything is coming in very well(75% bewitched, and 25% paragon prg). There was a lot of unevenness in the color originally, but that seems to be balancing out as it matures. I purchased an old cal trimmer and currently mowing at around 1.25". I had it down to .75", but it started showing signs of stress. It seems to be doing well currently at 1.25", but really admire the striping. Any advice on striping? I don't have a roller on the trimmer.


----------



## Pete1313

Drryantsmith said:


> Your lawn looks amazing, Pete! I have recently renovated our front lawn following most of what you did. I did thatch heavily and added a mostly sand topsoil to top dress. The reno was done this spring, and everything is coming in very well(75% bewitched, and 25% paragon prg). There was a lot of unevenness in the color originally, but that seems to be balancing out as it matures. I purchased an old cal trimmer and currently mowing at around 1.25". I had it down to .75", but it started showing signs of stress. It seems to be doing well currently at 1.25", but really admire the striping. Any advice on striping? I don't have a roller on the trimmer.


Thanks for following my reno and I am glad it helped you with your renovation! For striping, a front roller will help but the best stripes will be made with a mower that has a full width drive drum in the rear. The weight of the mower and the full drum is what makes beautiful stripes and is why greens type reel mowers are becoming more popular.


----------



## mribbens

Pete1313 said:


> Colonel K0rn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pete, where'd you get your mulch pellets?
> 
> 
> 
> ConservFS. I think they are just in the northern Illinois area. I'm sure you can find a similar product at other places that would supply products to landscapers.
Click to expand...

I love using CoverGrow, what spreader setting did you use to get it through your broadcast spreader? I have a Lesco 80# spreader.

I am in NE IL-Grayslake, love this thread!


----------



## Pete1313

mribbens said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colonel K0rn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pete, where'd you get your mulch pellets?
> 
> 
> 
> ConservFS. I think they are just in the northern Illinois area. I'm sure you can find a similar product at other places that would supply products to landscapers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love using CoverGrow, what spreader setting did you use to get it through your broadcast spreader? I have a Lesco 80# spreader.
> 
> I am in NE IL-Grayslake, love this thread!
Click to expand...

Welcome to TLF! Good to see another Northern IL member and thanks for reading my reno thread. Incase you haven't found them yet, there is a ConsevFS not to far from you in Wauconda. As far as CoverGrow thru a spreader, I have a Spyker that has a large single opening. I had it full open and then just closed it alittle as needed based on how it was flowing thru the spreader. How large is the opening on the lesco? If it has multiple openings like an earthway or a smaller opening then the spyker(1.5"x1.5"?) It might be difficult to get it thru the spreader.


----------



## mribbens

Yes that is the Conserve I use, they are great and I should just go ahead and make an account there, I could spend $$$ every day I am there. I work in Wauconda, and my employer has an account with them, so they are super helpful. The Lesco has 3 holes, so I may just tinker around with the settings, close to wide open, to drop the CoverGrow. I am just going to overseed my entire lawn, about 9000 sq ft this fall, and have used CG last fall with great results. Conserve has an Elite sports field blend that I am thinking about using.

Loved your thread, it was a must read last night and today, attention to detail and the time spent is amazing, I wish I could spend more time working on my property, I enjoy it so much, but 2 young kids and a very busy job I am limited.

This is what I am working with, has come a long way but good from far and far from good.


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## wardconnor

That sand is a thing of beauty Pete. It is so satisfying when its down and the work is done. I love a good sanding project. Good work


----------



## Pete1313

mribbens said:


> Yes that is the Conserve I use, they are great and I should just go ahead and make an account there, I could spend $$$ every day I am there. I work in Wauconda, and my employer has an account with them, so they are super helpful. The Lesco has 3 holes, so I may just tinker around with the settings, close to wide open, to drop the CoverGrow. I am just going to overseed my entire lawn, about 9000 sq ft this fall, and have used CG last fall with great results. Conserve has an Elite sports field blend that I am thinking about using.
> 
> Loved your thread, it was a must read last night and today, attention to detail and the time spent is amazing, I wish I could spend more time working on my property, I enjoy it so much, but 2 young kids and a very busy job I am limited.
> 
> This is what I am working with, has come a long way but good from far and far from good.


I'm glad you enjoyed the thread. I will give another update in a couple weeks as we near the start of fall and get ready to give it some N. I hear ya on wishing I had more time for the lawn. 3 kids here and am gone almost 12hrs a day for work. Your lawn looks really good from those pics, especially considering the year we had with the weather. The heat and humidity came early this year.



wardconnor said:


> That sand is a thing of beauty Pete. It is so satisfying when its down and the work is done. I love a good sanding project. Good work


It is rewarding! Is wish I could do it on the whole yard. Sand here is really cheap as the quarry is literally a mile down the road. $9.50 a ton, but would need some better equipment and/or more time to spread it across the whole yard.


----------



## mribbens

WOW, 3 kids and 12 hrs of work every day and you make the time for your beautiful enormous lawn, smh, I don't know how you do it, but I have no excuses after hearing that!

My HOC is at 3, but I am considering lowering to 2 as we get to the fall, I love the look and feel of a lower cut lawn. A question, as I start to transition to the lower cut with a rotary mower, Timemaster, what are going to be major items I will have to deal with?


----------



## Pete1313

mribbens said:


> WOW, 3 kids and 12 hrs of work every day and you make the time for your beautiful enormous lawn, smh, I don't know how you do it, but I have no excuses after hearing that!


Thanks! I've worked hard to try and get as efficient as possible when doing yard work. Having the right equipment helps alot. I have my times down to where it takes about an hour to mow the yard and about the same time to spray it as well.



mribbens said:


> My HOC is at 3, but I am considering lowering to 2 as we get to the fall, I love the look and feel of a lower cut lawn. A question, as I start to transition to the lower cut with a rotary mower, Timemaster, what are going to be major items I will have to deal with?


It will have a scalped look if you take too much off at once. Lower it slowly in steps. You will expose more lighter colored stems as you go lower. Take it down to one notch below your intended HOC slowly and then raise it back up.


----------



## Rucraz2

Looking good Pete. Ive been reel mowing my 500sqft dog pen at 1.25. Doing nothing more than pouring on milo and cutting low from 3" in about two weeks, it has come to the point that the wife wants the rest of the lawn to look like it. Im amazed. So I'm going to have her read this thread and see if I can get her on board.


----------



## Pete1313

Rucraz2 said:


> Looking good Pete. Ive been reel mowing my 500sqft dog pen at 1.25. Doing nothing more than pouring on milo and cutting low from 3" in about two weeks, it has come to the point that the wife wants the rest of the lawn to look like it. Im amazed. So I'm going to have her read this thread and see if I can get her on board.


Awesome! I'm glad you are enjoying the lower cut so far, and look forward to seeing some updates when you decide to cut the whole lawn(42k) lower!


----------



## Rucraz2

I'd have to get a larger mower for that. With my fiskars reel I use, it would take me a whole day to cut my entire lawn. Hopefully in a handful of years when we get some other bills paid off. Then it would be a Ventrac with the 72" reel. Then get the snowblower and have the multifunction machine.


----------



## NoslracNevok

@Rucraz2 Do you have any pics of the dog pen?


----------



## Pete1313

NoslracNevok said:


> Rucraz2 Do you have any pics of the dog pen?


I'm always interested in seeing low cut grass pics as well!



Rucraz2 said:


> I'd have to get a larger mower for that. With my fiskars reel I use, it would take me a whole day to cut my entire lawn. Hopefully in a handful of years when we get some other bills paid off. Then it would be a Ventrac with the 72" reel. Then get the snowblower and have the multifunction machine.


Have you put any thought into a triplex reel mower from JD or toro? They could be cheaper and could find one used at auction. It looks like you have an X540 to handle most of the other bull work.


----------



## Rucraz2

Yeah I've done my research. If it does happen down the road I just think a Ventrac would suit my needs better. And I know I would be spending quite a bit more. Not that I wouldnt take a Tri any day of the week either. Unfortunately any and all big projects are on hold. For probably a handful of years. We were pushing out our budget a bit moving into our new place last fall and shortly after the boss found out she has the big "C" and a few other things. So she only works part time to mostly watch the littlest one, and also try and get healthy. But looks like the end of the woods is a ways out yet. But someday hopefully. 





We'll see if these pics show up. My first time posting. The pics dont look very good but I am stil impressed considering over half of the entire thing looked like that bare spot in the corner by the football. Its still got a long ways to go and a handful of weeds I need to get to. I have done absolutely nothing but milo. Lots of it! Mowing low sure does push it to thicken up. Im going to throw down some pgr here soon and see what happens.


----------



## Pete1313

The dog pen is looking good! And mowing low does help it thicken up! :thumbsup:


----------



## Rucraz2

I am realizing this. As i have always been a higher hoc man. Im debating on lowering the hoc on the rest of the lawn so it will spread in a bit more. Im at 3.5-3.75 now. It looks good from the road but you get up close and its thin. My neighbors mow short and it looks thicker. I keep waiting for the heat to arrive and mine will shine. But im not so sure its making a difference?


----------



## Pete1313

It's been a bit since I gave an update. July was a busy month where we had guests over for the first 2 weekends followed by a family vacation where we were gone for 10 days at the end of July. So not too much done to the lawn besides some milorganite and some primo/iron/fungicide sprays. When we returned from vacation on sunday the lawn had grown to 2" in the 12 days between mows.










I had to bring the HOC up alittle but was able to cut it at 1".




























The area that I did the sand leveling on has recovered well. I wish I could do it to the whole yard.










I did battle some dollar spot in early July when the Smith-Kerns model was over 70% and I had no preventative fungicide down, and here is one of the worst spots as of a few days ago.



















There is another area just like that in the backyard as well as a couple small spots elsewhere. I'm not too worried about these spots as I'm sure they will close up this fall and I know now what my lawn might be susceptible to and when and keep it protected going forward.

I'm counting the days for when the weather cools off and can push it with some fall nitrogen. Until then I'm on cruise control. I plan on snapping all the comparison pics in a few weeks to track on how the bare spots have filled in and then will take another set at the end of fall to show how much my lawn will respond to an aggressive fall N plan.


----------



## KHARPS

Looks unbelievable, Pete!


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## fusebox7

It's nice to keep it simple until you learn your new ecosystem and how it behaves without intervention. Looks like it's doing great with the "low input" thus far :thumbup: I don't wanna wish summer away but fall will definitely be exciting to pour on the "N"


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## JDgreen18

Pete thanks for sharing your info...I love this thread must have read it 5 times. My seed down is next week I cant wait to have a kbg lawn....

Btw looks real good


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## SNOWBOB11

Looks awesome pete. I like the pic of between you and your neighbors lawn. You can really see the colour difference.


----------



## rob13psu

Ridgerunner said:


> I am enjoying this thread immensely.


Agreed!


----------



## Green

Awesome, even after vacation!


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks everyone for the replies!



fusebox7 said:


> It's nice to keep it simple until you learn your new ecosystem and how it behaves without intervention. Looks like it's doing great with the "low input" thus far :thumbup: I don't wanna wish summer away but fall will definitely be exciting to pour on the "N"


I wouldn't call it "low input" :lol:
I'm not a fan of fungicides, it is one of those things I don't feel good about spraying, but some sprays were needed. Bewitched had good NTEP ratings for dollar spot resistance. 
This was a rough year weather wise and is a first year after a reno. I think I might try the curative route, only if needed, next year as well and see if I can get by without using any fungicides as the turf matures.



JDgreen18 said:


> My seed down is next week I cant wait to have a kbg lawn....
> 
> Btw looks real good


I am subscribed and have been following your thread. Your prep work is looking really good and can't wait to see the results!



SNOWBOB11 said:


> Looks awesome pete. I like the pic of between you and your neighbors lawn. You can really see the colour difference.


It is darkening up more each month. I am liking the color so far. It definately stands out compared to the old NoMix lawns in the area.


----------



## fusebox7

Pete1313 said:


> fusebox7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's nice to keep it simple until you learn your new ecosystem and how it behaves without intervention. Looks like it's doing great with the "low input" thus far :thumbup: I don't wanna wish summer away but fall will definitely be exciting to pour on the "N"
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't call it "low input" :lol:
Click to expand...


----------



## Pete1313

Well, the 2500B has been relatively trouble free since I reconditioned it, but today a hydraulic line blew.










It popped right where the metal fitting meets the rubber hose on this line.










I will give greenfarmparts.com a call tomorrow and see how quick I can get a replacement. Luckily it was on the cleanup pass and I was almost finished mowing. It was a weird sound when it happened. Sounded and looked like I ran over a fluorescent light bulb and exploded. I caught it as soon as it happened, and it only leaks when the cutting unit is spinning, so hopefully there is not too much damage to the turf.


----------



## GrassFarmer

you cant have napa or some one locally cut you a new hose and crimp the ends on? Someone should be able to your in farm country too.


----------



## g-man

I was thinking the same thing as grassfarmer. It looks like a Swagelok fitting at the end. I would also inspect them all.


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks @GrassFarmer and @g-man! Another reason why TLF is awesome! Called the local NAPA and they directed me to the closest one that does the lines. They said it only takes a few minutes to make one as long as they have the fittings in stock, otherwise it is a one day turnaround. I'm going to head over tomorrow and see what they can do!


----------



## g-man

If you had the hose with you, then stopping here might be an option too. https://chicago.swagelok.com/en 
360 Windy Point Drive, Glendale Heights, IL 60139 They might be more expensive, but they do carry a lot of the fittings.


----------



## Pete1313

Unfortunately I dont have it with me today.


----------



## Pete1313

We are back in business! Went out on Saturday morning to try and find someone to make a new hydraulic line for the 2500B. First I went to NAPA and they couldn't make a new line as they didn't have the right fittings. Turns out John Deere uses metric fittings. I then called around to the 6 closest places and told them I had metric fittings. All of them said they wouldn't be able to help. I was driving passed my local JD Ag dealer and even though they can't get or sell Turf equipment parts, I showed them the old line and 10 minutes later I had a new line. They even had the o-rings in stock that go into the Male thread that the line attaches to. The fittings are slightly longer than the original, but otherwise looks perfect! Best of all, the original part (AMT1891) is $60, and the one they made me only cost $35!


----------



## g-man

:thumbup:

When they did a side drill for a new cable TV company, they spilled some hydroulic fluid I to my neighbor's lawn. It never grew back. I would remove the spilled section and plug.


----------



## Pete1313

g-man said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> When they did a side drill for a new cable TV company, they spilled some hydroulic fluid I to my neighbor's lawn. It never grew back. I would remove the spilled section and plug.


Thanks for the tip @g-man! I'm watching the area right now. I'm not sure how much/little oil I lost. Even after replacing the line I did not have to add any to the mower. The turf color is alittle lighter in the area, but not significant yet to show up in pictures. Time will tell. It looks to be spread across a small area of about 5 sq ft. If it dies, I have a couple yards of native soil in the back that and I can use some to replace any soil.


----------



## Pete1313

We can all be the biggest critics of our lawns, picking out the smallest imperfections. I am definately no exception. There is always something that needs work!..

One year ago today anyone I talked to thought I was the craziest person they knew as I turned a 38k sq ft lawn that looked like

This









To bare soil









One year later, you drive up the street and it is strikingly darker then any yard in the area. Even when cut at or below 1". The neighbors that said I was crazy now compliment on how well it looks.

I constantly focus/obsess on the areas that need improvement, but today I will sit back and admire the hard work put in to get from the bare soil I was at one year ago to where I am at today. Any other renovators coming up on their one year anniversary since seed down, take a moment and remember where you were at one year ago. Pat yourself on the back for what you put yourself thru and how far the lawn has come. The work that still needs to get done can wait for tomorrow! :beer:

Pics from today's mow


----------



## SNOWBOB11

Looks great pete. You've done an awesome job. I can't imagine having so much turf to take care of, but you make it look easy. Well done.


----------



## JDgreen18

Looks fantastic


----------



## social port

Pete, Just wanted to say congrats on LOTM!
@SNOWBOB11 got it right in the LOTM thread: It is high time that your epic lawn and thread gets its place in TLF Hall of Fame :thumbup:


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks everyone for the replies!

I will have some work waiting for me when I get home today. A bad windstorm took down a tree in the back yard.





































It was 35ft tall. I'm bummed because that area will look lopsided without both trees. If anyone has any tips or suggestions on what to put in its place and how to go about it, let me know. I believe I have read in the past that you can't plant a new tree in the same spot as an old one. How far away would be a safe distance?


----------



## fusebox7

Pete1313 said:


> I will have some work waiting for me when I get home today. A bad windstorm took down a tree in the back yard.


Bummer about the tree! We have a 40 foot red maple that just up and died (diseased?) and we need to cut down & replace as well (it was a great shade/privacy tree). I'll be following any tips/suggestions you get. I would "cheat" and grow 1-2 hybrid poplars but I hate the cotton they produce soooooo much.

Do you know what kind of tree it was? Silver maple? Any strong feelings about characteristics of the new tree?


----------



## g-man

It looked like it was struggling already by the damage at the bottom. How is the other one doing?

I like these:
Bitternut Hickory
Accolade Elm
Kentucky Coffee Tree
Swamp White Oak (won't work at high pH)


----------



## SGrabs33

@Pete1313 All that sucks man. Hopefully that's the end of your bad luck.

Maybe LOTM is like the Madden cover curse. Hope not!


----------



## Pete1313

fusebox7 said:


> Do you know what kind of tree it was? Silver maple? Any strong feelings about characteristics of the new tree?


I believe it was a maple but not sure what kind. No strong feelings about a type of tree to replace it with.. just one that will fit the current landscape. Thoughts?



g-man said:


> It looked like it was struggling already by the damage at the bottom. How is the other one doing?
> 
> I like these:
> Bitternut Hickory
> Accolade Elm
> Kentucky Coffee Tree
> Swamp White Oak (won't work at high pH)


I did not take a close look, just briefly before I left for work. It did look like something was going on at the base of the trunk in that pic. The other one looks healthy, but so did this one before it fell.



SGrabs33 said:


> @Pete1313 All that sucks man. Hopefully that's the end of your bad luck.
> 
> Maybe LOTM is like the Madden cover curse. Hope not!


Let's hope it isn't a curse! :lol:

The hydraulic line wasn't too bad, but the tree sucks because that area will look lopsided for years while a new tree establishes. Quickly looking at it, it looks like I can plant a new tree 5ft away from the old one(mostly forward from the spot and alittle right) and still make it look good in the existing mulch bed.


----------



## g-man

I think you should make the mulch area bigger and plant 2 trees so when the other goes you will still have a pair.

I think the new mulch area should be 5678sqft. So to help a fellow TLF, I rented a sod cutter. I'm on my way north on i-39. I will haul it too so leave the area all clear.


----------



## fusebox7

g-man said:


> I think you should make the mulch area bigger and plant 2 trees so when the other goes you will still have a pair.
> 
> I think the new mulch area should be 5678sqft. So to help a fellow TLF, I rented a sod cutter. I'm on my way north on i-39. I will haul it too so leave the area all clear.


Hah. He's got jokes! :lol:


----------



## Pete1313

g-man said:


> I think you should make the mulch area bigger and plant 2 trees so when the other goes you will still have a pair.
> 
> I think the new mulch area should be 5678sqft. So to help a fellow TLF, I rented a sod cutter. I'm on my way north on i-39. I will haul it too so leave the area all clear.


Did you get lost? You should be here by now!.. :lol:

The area is all clear. The tree has been removed.









And is all nicely stacked in the back corner to be burned later.


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## nellybean

Just spent my saturday morning finishing this thread. Great read, and excellent documentation @Pete1313 . I'm a first time homeowner and just itching to reno my 2k suburban weed crops. Weather's still pretty warm in SE Michigan (mid 80's) but I think I'm going to try for Labor Day. A few more re-reads on this thread with my notebook out, and I think I'll be game.


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## Pete1313

@nellybean, thanks for taking the time to read my reno thread! I'm glad it will help you with your renovation! It is getting late in the game to do a reno in SE Michigan, depending on the type of grass you decide to sow. I would try and target to get it down by labor day. It has been a warm and humid August here with some frequent downpours. We just got 2" of rain on Wednesday-Thursday. It would have been a difficult reno year for me had I decided to seed this year. Hopeful that the weather will change here in the next week and get some better growing conditions. Soil temp highs are still in the 80°F-82°F range here.


----------



## rob13psu

I have to say, whenever I'm having doubts about what I'm doing, or wonder why i'm putting so much work into the yard I revisit this thread. So much work put in with such great results. Well done, Pete!


----------



## Grasshopper

This thread is gold... You're an inspiration pete! 
Thank you and congratulations on lawn of the month. You truly deserve it!


----------



## iowa jim

I want to thank you for giving me the inspiration to do my reno, and my vote for lawn of the month has always been you. Your lawn is looking great , hope mine comes out half as good and i will be happy.


----------



## mark

Hi Pete, are you experiencing fungus issues? I ask because I spoke with a friend who owns a sod farm, and was telling him about your blog. You did a tremendous job. It seems everyone is on the Bewitched kick, and he was telling me he is completely dissatisfied with Bewitched, and will no longer plant it. He grew a monostrand of Moonbeam in 07 when it was the Bewitched of its days. For the past 10 yrs I have battled a fungus issue. It was very interesting listening to someone in the grass business telling me about all these new low mow grasses.


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks everyone for the replies!

@mark, welcome to TLF! Good to see some more Northern IL members. I have not had any fungus issues since early July back when I had some problems with dollar spot. I have to admit though that I think some of it might have been my own fault. Doing things like scalping down to 9/16" and leveling, or overregulating with primo alittle before that were not smart things on my part, especially in the spring after a reno, and probably contributed to some issues. We have been having some rough weather in our area(warm, humid, and lot of precip) and despite the Smith-Kerns model back over 60% again



The lawn is holding up well for mid August with a 7/8" HOC.





The biggest enemy to the yard has been the dogs. Digging holes and leaving pee spots, they do alittle damage to the backyard. But I fill the holes, and the KBG fills in the gaps.

I'm sorry your friend is dissatisfied with bewitched. I have nothing but good things to say about it. I still drive by my old house in Mt. Prospect that was renovated with it in 2014, and keep tabs on my co-worker's Roselle home that I renovated in 2015. Both are doing well, even at lower inputs. Bewitched is still popular with sports fields as well. In the Chicagoland area, it is one of Toyota Park's main KBG cultivars(along with Princeton 105). I can't confirm, but do suspect it to be a cultivar used at Wrigley as well.


----------



## mark

Hi Pete, thanks for your reply. The lawn looks great. I will keep tabs on your blog, and interested how things progress. My friend sodded the MIller Center in Milwaukee and is quite familiar with growing Bewitched. Yes Wrigley has it, but not as a mono strand.. I seeded some Bewitched into my Moonbean that has a shade issue just to see how it handles the shade. I have 30,000 sq of turf in Wayne. I do all the right things, spend a ton of money on fertilizers and such, and the grass is a complete mess with fungus. I am trying to find a new variety to seed into my Moonbeam. I have been pushed by some to go with Prosperity... Anyways, keep up the good work....Thanks again for the reply...


----------



## mustafa

Hi Pete, 
I read your posts, it is an amazing experience that could be a good reference.
You mentioned that you were watering every day till day 45 after seeding. And you cut the watering to become every 2 days. My question is what about the 1" of water rule in this period, and when should we apply it after seeding? And based on your experience do you prefer to put 1" in one day?


----------



## Pete1313

@mark, sorry to hear about your struggles. It was a rough spring for our location this year and I'm sure that didn't help with some of the fungus issues you are seeing. It was cold in early spring and then all of a sudden it got really hot and humid in the middle-end of May. I had 90°F+ temps from 5/24-5/29. Flipping a switch like that can be tough on the grass. Did you have a chance to ID the fungus you are dealing with?

I did suspect it to be in the blend at Wrigley. Thanks for confirming. I had the opportunity to play at Miller Park back in 2009 (an amateur game), no doubt playing on that field sparked my interest in reel mowing KBG. The grass was beautiful.


----------



## Pete1313

mustafa said:


> Hi Pete,
> I read your posts, it is an amazing experience that could be a good reference.
> You mentioned that you were watering every day till day 45 after seeding. And you cut the watering to become every 2 days. My question is what about the 1" of water rule in this period, and when should we apply it after seeding? And based on your experience do you prefer to put 1" in one day?


I'm not a fan of the 1" per week rule. Instead I water based on reference evapotranspiration (ET) and it works well for me. The reason I prefer using ET is some weeks it is cool, cloudy, and humid. Other weeks it can be hot, windy, and low humidity. Watering requirements will very alot based on those 2 extremes and some weeks .5" of water is all the lawn will require and other weeks the lawn will need 1.5". I'm currently watering at 80% of ref ET when it reaches a .75" deficit. So when ref ET adds up to alittle over .9", I water .75". That is for the sunny zones, the 2 part shade zones in the back get watered at 64% of ref ET when they reach a .75" deficit. Sorry, I kind of geek out when it comes to watering the lawn (I even have a log for how much I water, when, and log the days ET and precip) , but I think it's important as over watering can lead to worse problems then not watering enough. As far as watering during the reno, I was watering multiple times a day at above ref ET rates until around day 30. Then I cut back to 1× a day at 95-100% ref ET, and then I believe around day 50 I was watering every other day at 90-95% ref ET. I started this year out at 90% ref ET when it reached a .5" deficit and like I said have worked it down to 80% and watering .75" at a time. I would like to water deeper (1" at a time) but I like to run zones 5,6, and 7 the same night and there is not enough time to run them any longer at night. I hope what I say isn't too confusing, I could babble on about how I water.


----------



## JDgreen18

Hey @Pete1313 I was looking through your journal again. I noticed all your grass seemed to grow in at the same time. Mine I have some areas with about an inch of growrh and others with nothing yet. Im thinking maybe because you used 1 cultivar and my blend has 8 so they have different germination times. It has been 14 days today. What do you think..


----------



## Pete1313

@JDgreen18, no way did mine come up and grow at the same time. There were plenty of areas that one would worry about and looked bare at day 14. Give it some time.


----------



## STL

Pete1313 said:


> I'm not a fan of the 1" per week rule. Instead I water based on reference evapotranspiration (ET) and it works well for me. The reason I prefer using ET is some weeks it is cool, cloudy, and humid. Other weeks it can be hot, windy, and low humidity. Watering requirements will very alot based on those 2 extremes and some weeks .5" of water is all the lawn will require and other weeks the lawn will need 1.5". I'm currently watering at 80% of ref ET when it reaches a .75" deficit. So when ref ET adds up to alittle over .9", I water .75". That is for the sunny zones, the 2 part shade zones in the back get watered at 64% of ref ET when they reach a .75" deficit. Sorry, I kind of geek out when it comes to watering the lawn (I even have a log for how much I water, when, and log the days ET and precip) , but I think it's important as over watering can lead to worse problems then not watering enough. As far as watering during the reno, I was watering multiple times a day at above ref ET rates until around day 30. Then I cut back to 1× a day at 95-100% ref ET, and then I believe around day 50 I was watering every other day at 90-95% ref ET. I started this year out at 90% ref ET when it reached a .5" deficit and like I said have worked it down to 80% and watering .75" at a time. I would like to water deeper (1" at a time) but I like to run zones 5,6, and 7 the same night and there is not enough time to run them any longer at night. I hope what I say isn't too confusing, I could babble on about how I water.


@Pete1313 nice lawn man! For your irrigation, where do you get your data and calculations? Is it from a smart controller like Rachio?


----------



## Pete1313

Thanks @STL! You can get ET data from a Rachio. I have a Hydrawise controller and can get the data from that, but I end up getting it from the ISWS website. I just average the numbers from the Freeport and DeKalb stations, which are the 2 closest ones to me. For rainfall I get the numbers from an electronic rain gauge I have mounted on my pool fence.


----------



## STL

Pete1313 said:


> Thanks @STL! You can get ET data from a Rachio. I have a Hydrawise controller and can get the data from that, but I end up getting it from the ISWS website. I just average the numbers from the Freeport and DeKalb stations, which are the 2 closest ones to me. For rainfall I get the numbers from an electronic rain gauge I have mounted on my pool fence.


@Pete1313 Don't mean to derail from everyone mentioning how awesome your lawn is  which it totally is! but I hoping you can help me nerd out here for a sec.

Thanks for posting the link BTW. I think I found the Missouri equivalent of that site. There doesn't seem to be a lot of locations reporting data in missouri, but there is one station just a little north of me. For ET, it just gives the date and the value, which I guess is all you really need.

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind posting your notes from your last irrigation cycle or two so I can see if I'm on the right track?

As far as the numbers you mentioned, just a guess but is the 80% the plant/turf crop coefficient you're using for your kbg? And did you go with 0.75" since that's the amount you like to water zones 5,6 7, which is 80% of the 0.9" deficit you water at? i.e. if you wanted to water 1", you'd do that when it got to a 1.25" deficit. Sound about right?


----------



## Pete1313

STL said:


> As far as the numbers you mentioned, just a guess but is the 80% the plant/turf crop coefficient you're using for your kbg? And did you go with 0.75" since that's the amount you like to water zones 5,6 7, which is 80% of the 0.9" deficit you water at? i.e. if you wanted to water 1", you'd do that when it got to a 1.25" deficit. Sound about right?


Those numbers sound correct. no trouble at all posting my notes. Here is a screenshot of the spreadsheet I use for ET watering. I'm just posting the last month, and then we can try and pick it apart since it is alittle confusing.



First off, zone watering time is the actual time each zone runs. So you will need to know my precip rate to know how much water I put down. My precip rate is 0.2"/hr, so 210min is 0.7", 240min is 0.8", etc. Rain is the amount of rainfall, and ETo = reference evapotranspiration. The Kc(crop coefficient) is set to .8 but zone 3 and 4 have an adjusted value currently at .64 as they are part shade. As the ETo is entered each day, it is automatically calculating the Kc adjusted deficit for each zone on the right. When the deficit reaches 0.7-0.8" I try and water those zones. Rainfall and the irrigation watering time also automatically subtracts from the deficit.

Please feel free to ask any questions. These numbers are currently working for my yard and soil and may need to be adjusted up or down for yours. I like tracking the data. I can look at the yard and see how it is doing and if it needs water, but then have some data to build off of. What I'm confirming so far is that low cut KBG doesn't really require more water than the higher cut. Maybe watering alittle more often, but the Kc of 0.8 seems to be normal for KBG.


----------



## STL

@Pete1313 awesome! Thanks man. I think I got it and will give it a go.


----------



## kolbasz

Pete1313 said:


> STL said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as the numbers you mentioned, just a guess but is the 80% the plant/turf crop coefficient you're using for your kbg? And did you go with 0.75" since that's the amount you like to water zones 5,6 7, which is 80% of the 0.9" deficit you water at? i.e. if you wanted to water 1", you'd do that when it got to a 1.25" deficit. Sound about right?
> 
> 
> 
> Those numbers sound correct. no trouble at all posting my notes. Here is a screenshot of the spreadsheet I use for ET watering. I'm just posting the last month, and then we can try and pick it apart since it is alittle confusing.
> 
> 
> 
> First off, zone watering time is the actual time each zone runs. So you will need to know my precip rate to know how much water I put down. My precip rate is 0.2"/hr, so 210min is 0.7", 240min is 0.8", etc. Rain is the amount of rainfall, and ETo = reference evapotranspiration. The Kc(crop coefficient) is set to .8 but zone 3 and 4 have an adjusted value currently at .64 as they are part shade. As the ETo is entered each day, it is automatically calculating the Kc adjusted deficit for each zone on the right. When the deficit reaches 0.7-0.8" I try and water those zones. Rainfall and the irrigation watering time also automatically subtracts from the deficit.
> 
> Please feel free to ask any questions. These numbers are currently working for my yard and soil and may need to be adjusted up or down for yours. I like tracking the data. I can look at the yard and see how it is doing and if it needs water, but then have some data to build off of. What I'm confirming so far is that low cut KBG doesn't really require more water than the higher cut. Maybe watering alittle more often, but the Kc of 0.8 seems to be normal for KBG.
Click to expand...

How did you manage to get all these values entered into a spread sheet like this?


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## Pete1313

kolbasz said:


> How did you manage to get all these values entered into a spread sheet like this?


"=MAX(0,K10+(J11*AF11*Y11)-I11-(B11*R11))"
I am not the most knowledgeable when it comes to spreadsheets, but I sat down in early spring and made one that would do all the calculations. I will try and make a post in the irrigation subforum in the next couple days and link to a blank version that someone can download and use if they want. Once the crop coefficient is entered as well as precipitation rate, all someone would have to do is enter the daily rainfall amount, potential ET, as well as how much they watered that day and the deficit would calculate. I would also invite @g-man, or anyone else more knowledgeable in spreadsheets to critique and possibly improve.

I will post a link here when I make the new topic.


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## kolbasz

Pete1313 said:


> kolbasz said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did you manage to get all these values entered into a spread sheet like this?
> 
> 
> 
> "=MAX(0,K10+(J11*AF11*Y11)-I11-(B11*R11))"
> I am not the most knowledgeable when it comes to spreadsheets, but I sat down in early spring and made one that would do all the calculations. I will try and make a post in the irrigation subforum in the next couple days and link to a blank version that someone can download and use if they want. Once the crop coefficient is entered as well as precipitation rate, all someone would have to do is enter the daily rainfall amount, potential ET, as well as how much they watered that day and the deficit would calculate. I would also invite @g-man, or anyone else more knowledgeable in spreadsheets to critique and possibly improve.
> 
> I will post a link here when I make the new topic.
Click to expand...

So you just manually entered the data? Or were you able to auto pull it from somewhere like Rachio logs or something? I have a hard enough time keeping my fert apps logged, let alone the watering cycles and rain. If it was a manual job, kudos to you.


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## g-man

@kolbasz There was an automated method, but WeatherUnderground stopped giving away API keys. If you have a key, then they still work. I started working on using a different system, but I could not get the data from the PWS, only the general town data. It was not good enough for precipitation.

I run a script in google script that reads the temp, humidity, precipitation every night. It places the info into a spreadsheet and calculates the ET0 from the temp data. I calculate GDD, Dollar Spot probability, track forecast temps, grow potential. I've share the google spreadsheet before. Just do a save as copy.


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## Pete1313

kolbasz said:


> Pete1313 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kolbasz said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did you manage to get all these values entered into a spread sheet like this?
> 
> 
> 
> "=MAX(0,K10+(J11*AF11*Y11)-I11-(B11*R11))"
> I am not the most knowledgeable when it comes to spreadsheets, but I sat down in early spring and made one that would do all the calculations. I will try and make a post in the irrigation subforum in the next couple days and link to a blank version that someone can download and use if they want. Once the crop coefficient is entered as well as precipitation rate, all someone would have to do is enter the daily rainfall amount, potential ET, as well as how much they watered that day and the deficit would calculate. I would also invite g-man, or anyone else more knowledgeable in spreadsheets to critique and possibly improve.
> 
> I will post a link here when I make the new topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you just manually entered the data? Or were you able to auto pull it from somewhere like Rachio logs or something? I have a hard enough time keeping my fert apps logged, let alone the watering cycles and rain. If it was a manual job, kudos to you.
Click to expand...

It is not all manually entered. When I am sipping on my morning coffee I can quickly pull up my google drive on my phone and enter the rainfall from the previous night and then ETo. Takes about a minute to do. The rest is calculated. The only other thing you would need to enter is if you watered the night before you would need to input how much (in minutes) you watered. If anyone is interested in the spreadsheet LMK and I will share.


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## STL

@@Pete1313 Interested!


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## Pete1313

I'm going to post a link to the spreadsheet here if anyone is interested in it. Feel free to save it and use it if you wish. It's not for everyone, but I like it and allows me to track how I am using my irrigation.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1quQFX-VrHJBjahKzZUHP_rAIxXOziCfd/view?usp=drivesdk





Here is a screenshot of some of my activity as well as a shot of all the columns on the spreadsheet. The crop coefficient(Kc) is in column AF. It is at .8 which is a good starting point for kentucky bluegrass. Columns Y thru AE are a number that can be adjusted down if you have a shadier area that you notice does not need as much water. Leave them set at 1 if it is a sunny zone. You can see I have my zone 3 and 4 set at .8 because they are part shade and stay wet longer. I am basically watering 64% of ETo(.8×.8) in those zones. So the other part you need to set up is the precip rate for each zone. Find out how many minutes it takes you to water 1" for a zone. Divide 1 by the number of minutes it takes to put 1" down to find you precip rate per minute. For my zones it takes 300 minutes to put 1" down so, 1/300 = 0.0033. Enter those figures into columns R thru X. Once that is all set up, now all you need to do is enter the ETo(potential evapotranspiration) for the day, and the rainfall(if any) and it will start calculating the deficit. I have it set where the deficit columns will turn red once .500" deficit is reached so you can start preparing when to water. When you do water, just enter the time in minutes you watered each zone. In the columns R thru AF I carried the values all the way down thru each day so if you need to make a change(such as adjusting a precip rate or shade value), you can, but will still have a history of past values to keep track of and compare.

Play around with it. Make adjustments as needed. Any questions, LMK. I hope someone else can make use of it. I find it to be a useful tool, and is helping me keep track of data and how I water my yard.


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## g-man

How is the *best* bewitched monostand in *rockford, IL* doing? Did you plant new trees?

PS - I had to find this thread all the way in page 5!


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## Pete1313

g-man said:


> How is the *best* bewitched monostand in *rockford, IL* doing? Did you plant new trees?
> 
> PS - I had to find this thread all the way in page 5!


I know I have been slacking. It's doing good. Not too much new to report. I have not planted a new tree yet, although i did find a 3 foot tall maple sapling in the far back bed that i might at least transplant in the spot. Not sure yet. I'll try and take some pics soon. Work has been crazy busy.


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## Pete1313

Alittle update as to what I have been up to yard wise, August is a rather boring month yard wise as there is not much to do besides mow, provide timely irrigation and just let the lawn do its thing.

On September 9th I dusted off the a the aerator and made a few passes to get to 4.2% affected surface area. It turned out ok and was able to get 2.5-3" cores. The drum/rotating style aerator is alittle disruptive on shorter turf, but not terrible. I've got my eye on auctions for an JD Aercore 800 as something I want to pick up in the future.

Here are some pics of before the aerating, HOC 3/4"








Here are some pics after I was done pulling cores.






I then broke out my drag mat and dragged all the cores back in and it looked like this.




I then threw the baskets on the 2500B and collected any thatch debris that was on the surface. 2 weeks later the lawn is responding very well after aerating. There are a couple areas that need to close up but the turf is thriving and seems happy.

Here are a couple pics from this weekend current HOC around 1".












I have been putting down urea weekly and with the awesome growing weather ahead I am excited for the rest of the season. I think a renovation is complete and considered a lawn after it makes it thru its first complete year and will post an end of renovation update once top growth stops in late fall.


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## JDgreen18

You have a beautiful piece of property pete....


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## ksturfguy

Just skimmed through this entire thread. Wow is all I can say. Awesome work Pete. I have a 3 acre lot, luckily only about 20,000 sqft is turf. That is a lot of work. Couldn't imagine doing what you did.


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## Mark102

To begin with GREAT work! You are a lucky man to have a family that is understanding of the time commitment to lawn care of this nature.


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## Pete1313

Thanks for the replies. Looking back thru these pages, man it was alot of work. And how did I do all of it? It looks crazy, even to me! When doing my reno, I put a plan together the winter before, and started getting done what I could as soon as the weather broke. Getting started early is important in any reno and especially in mine due to the size. My family is understanding as they are used to my large projects. Whether it is a lawn renovation or all the house renovation projects, they know things take time but in the end the results are always worth the effort. I am glad I got it done all in one year. There are a few small areas that give me trouble, but are more related to the slope/erosion or the mechanical damage caused by my current mower setup. I'm working on fixes for those spots, but otherwise the rest of the yard is done, in maintenance mode, and really does not take too much time to maintain.


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## Scagfreedom48z+

Pete1313 said:


> Thanks for the replies. Looking back thru these pages, man it was alot of work. And how did I do all of it? It looks crazy, even to me! When doing my reno, I put a plan together the winter before, and started getting done what I could as soon as the weather broke. Getting started early is important in any reno and especially in mine due to the size. My family is understanding as they are used to my large projects. Whether it is a lawn renovation or all the house renovation projects, they know things take time but in the end the results are always worth the effort. I am glad I got it done all in one year. There are a few small areas that give me trouble, but are more related to the slope/erosion or the mechanical damage caused by my current mower setup. I'm working on fixes for those spots, but otherwise the rest of the yard is done, in maintenance mode, and really does not take too much time to maintain.


Tip of the hat to you. Takes a lot of gonads and go out on a limb like that! Congrats!

I've been reading through your Reno and did you use any topsoil for your seed?


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## rob13psu

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> Tip of the hat to you. Takes a lot of gonads and go out on a limb like that! Congrats!
> 
> I've been reading through your Reno and did you use any topsoil for your seed?


If I'm not mistaken, he core aerated prior to seed down and then dragged the dried cores to create a nice seed bed.


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## Pete1313

Scagfreedom48z+ said:


> Tip of the hat to you. Takes a lot of gonads and go out on a limb like that! Congrats!
> 
> I've been reading through your Reno and did you use any topsoil for your seed?


Thanks! I did not use any new topsoil.



rob13psu said:


> If I'm not mistaken, he pulled plugs prior to seed down and then dragged the dried cores to create a nice seed bed.


What Rob said! :thumbup:


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## Scagfreedom48z+

Genius!


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## krusej23

Any updates? Loved the work you did.


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## Pete1313

krusej23 said:


> Any updates? Loved the work you did.


Nothing too crazy.. I put the smooth tires back on the 2500B to try and minimize some of the triplex ring that I can't seem to get rid of around the trees. The rings were getting better during the summer when growth was faster, but now that things are slowing down the current tire setup was doing some damage again. I tested them out tonight and with the 3rd wheel assist kit I can make it up the steepest hill with the smooth ones on with damp grass and the reels engaged. Will most likely just keep the smooth ones on next year and look to sell the other ones. Also looking to change up the roller setup for next year and am looking at some golfco rollers and will give them a call in the offseason. Otherwise, the year is winding down. I dropped 1500 lbs of gypsum last weekend and my last N app of the year was a couple weeks ago. Growth has slowed to weekly mowing and I'm looking to get my fall cleanup done in the next couple weeks. I know I have been slacking on the updates, but I am now starting on the basement remodel and that has been taking up alot of free time. The lawn is looking really good overall and I will get some pics up this weekend.


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## g-man

There is a basement Reno thread? I need to subscribe.


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## Pete1313

A few pictures to update as the first season is closing down. HOC is 1". I'm really liking this HOC lately as the stripes and color really pop. 
I have been at this height since the 2nd week of September. This is where a mower such as the 2500B, 220E, or any others with an adjustable clip rate really shine as you can set them up to get a really clean cut at the higher HOCs.

Pics have alittle leaf litter and just finished spraying some iron. Overall not to bad for end of October in NW IL. Pics are from yesterday.




Alittle scalping near the property line. I have been accidentally missing some of the grass during mows and decided to take back some of the property line.



When done we had a blast playing football, soccer, and baseball on it. The ball rolls really smooth.




Good thing I took the pics yesterday as this is what it looks like today.






Season is almost done here. Maybe 1 or 2 mows left and mostly just to chop up leaves. There was only about .25" of growth between this weekend and last, and depending on how much growth by next weekend this might be the last cut of the season with the 2500B and just mulch the leaves with the X590. I plan to blow out the sprinklers next weekend, and then start cleaning up the beds before winter.

This renovation is complete. It is everything I could have asked for when I started. There are still plenty of things to keep me busy next year(mulch beds, few bare spots, leveling, and just maintaining) but the yard no longer looks like a work-in-progress. I might do one more update once all the cleanup is done in a few weeks, but otherwise plan to make a new journal for 2019 and get more detailed by sharing fert/spray and watering logs and be more detailed on how I maintain the yard.


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## g-man

This looks great. We had a very short fall this year.

Pete, what is your hoc on the rotary? I need to figure out the leaves without scalping.


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## Pete1313

g-man said:


> This looks great. We had a very short fall this year.
> 
> Pete, what is your hoc on the rotary? I need to figure out the leaves without scalping.


Agreed. A very tough year in general for growing grass. Winter stuck around until mid April here, and then all of a sudden summer came in the first week of May with temps in the upper 80's. The heat and humidity seemed to stick around most of the year as well. It was especially tough for alot of renovators this year with all the untimely late summer downpours as well.

I run the rotary over the leaves at 2.25". It mostly sucks them up, shreds them alittle and spits them back out. It doesn't really cut any grass. Don't use my HOC with the rotary as a guide where to put yours. Due to all the hills and dips, any lower will cause major scalping and even at that height I need to be careful not to enter some parts at the wrong angle.


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## ABC123

Wow Pete that looks fantastic. I got hit with some fungus but not too worried as it's recovering well, just been cold and wet. Ready for winter!


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## mribbens

Pete1313 said:


> g-man said:
> 
> 
> 
> This looks great. We had a very short fall this year.
> 
> Pete, what is your hoc on the rotary? I need to figure out the leaves without scalping.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. A very tough year in general for growing grass. Winter stuck around until mid April here, and then all of a sudden summer came in the first week of May with temps in the upper 80's. The heat and humidity seemed to stick around most of the year as well. It was especially tough for alot of renovators this year with all the untimely late summer downpours as well.
> 
> I run the rotary over the leaves at 2.25". It mostly sucks them up, shreds them a little and spits them back out. It doesn't really cut any grass. Don't use my HOC with the rotary as a guide where to put yours. Due to all the hills and dips, any lower will cause major scalping and even at that height I need to be careful not to enter some parts at the wrong angle.
Click to expand...

Your work has been amazing to read through, this has been a very tough year for Northern Illinois for weather and the grass, but I guess that is why we love working on our lawns, the constant daily challenge!!! Your thread continues to inspire me to keep my grass HOC low, although not ready to jump in the water with a cylinder reel mower, just the Fiskars for now. Thank you!


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## Pete1313

ABC123 said:


> Wow Pete that looks fantastic. I got hit with some fungus but not too worried as it's recovering well, just been cold and wet. Ready for winter!


Thanks! And sorry to hear about the fungus issues. I look forward to watching your lawn grow in next year!



mribbens said:


> Your work has been amazing to read through, this has been a very tough year for Northern Illinois for weather and the grass, but I guess that is why we love working on our lawns, the constant daily challenge!!! Your thread continues to inspire me to keep my grass HOC low, although not ready to jump in the water with a cylinder reel mower, just the Fiskars for now. Thank you!


Thanks for reading! And agree on it being a tough year. I'm glad to be an inspiration for you to mow low! So many cool season members are cutting short, it's hard to keep up on all the progress!


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## social port

It's been a while since I checked up on your lawn. 
That color is just about perfect to my eyes, and the stripes are beautiful.
Looks so good, Pete.


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## Pete1313

Yardwork looks to be done this year for me. Finished my fall clean up yesterday and looking to get some snow tomorrow. I cleared out all the overgrown plants by the pool area.



Imagine that whole back fence area completely overgrown to the height of the fence with grasses and various other plants. The power rotory scissor attachment made quick work of it. I am planning to renovate that area next year with different plantings.

Color is still good, especially comparing to the other yards in the area



Here are some pics of the yard today after the cleanup yesterday. HOC is around 1.25" maybe alittle higher and although I would have loved to give it one more final mow back down to 1.0" today, last night we received .15" of rain. The rain combined with it being late November on a clay loam soil means no mowing today.


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## Pete1313

Done. See you next year lawn.


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## kolbasz

Damn,. I can't believe you got that much snow


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## Pete1313

@kolbasz, it was around 12-13". Impressive amount of snow, especially for here in November.


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## kolbasz

This weather has been crazy so far. Freezing freezing freezing, 58


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## Drryantsmith

Hi Pete, I did a reno of our front yard last spring and used Bewitched. It turned out fairly well, but concerned I am dealing with a fungal issue. The lawn has a global yellowing. I did put down a fungicide late October, and not sure if it did anything. Can I apply fungicide this time of year? I am near Seattle, and temps are mid 40s.


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## Pete1313

@Drryantsmith, it is tough to give advice on a possible fungal issue without some pics and at least some partial diagnosis of what you are dealing with. I am not from Seattle and may not be able to give the best advice on your situation based on your climate. I would generally say that applying a fungicide this time of year would be ok, if it is needed, but would encourage you to start a new thread on your specific issue. Get more into detail on some of the things that might have lead up to the issue including current and past weather as well as what has been applied and done up to this point.


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## Drryantsmith

Thanks for your input, Pete!


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## Pete1313

The story continues... to keep track on what I am doing to the yard this year click here

Pete1313's 2019 Lawn Journal


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## psider25

@Pete1313 What kind of trencher did you rent and how long did it take you roughly per foot. I am planning a new irrigation install at my house and need about 300 ft of mainline 1.25 inch pvc install and about 750 ft or so of .75 inch pvc laterals. Trying to figure out if I can do the trenching all in one day. My soil is typical Illinois silty clay with topsoil on top.

Did you worry about gas or electric at 10 inches deep? How deep was your existing system you tied into?


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## Pete1313

@psider25, it was a fairly sizable walk behind. All hydraulic and believe had the capability to trench 18 or 24" deep. I did the trenching for my yard in one day(it was over 2000 ft) and you should be able to as well. Just make sure you mark it all out beforehand.

All the utilities were marked before trenching. Hand dig near the marked areas. Most of the original mainline and laterals are 36" deep and pvc(can't believe the original owner went that deep). I tied in at the 3/4" risers but had to go down to the original 1" pvc lines in a few spots.


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## BBLOCK

wow just read this whole journal. the stuff lawn dreams are made of. impressive mr. Pete


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## Pete1313

@BBLOCK thanks for taking the time to read! It has been a fun journey!


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## eric1104

@Pete1313 This was a great read! I'm looking forward to reading through your subsequent lawn journals. I stumbled upon your journals because of the size of your lawn and equipment choices. I was in the Chicago suburbs with a smaller 6.3k sq ft TTTF lawn with no irrigation, but recently moved to west Michigan where I have a 25k sq ft mostly KBG lawn with irrigation. It's in great shape and was cut around 3". I've wanted to get into reel mowing and have always liked a 1-1.5" HOC, and this is my first opportunity.

I had identified a lawn tractor and triplex mower as the equipment for a yard this size (was actually already looking at some used JD 2500b and JD lawn tractors before I came across your journal). Similar to your yard, mine has a left to right slope in the front, perhaps a bit steeper. Back yard has a very gradual and even slope toward the back of the lot. I was wondering if you had any advice regarding these two machines based on your experience? Would you do anything differently today if you had the opportunity to start fresh/rebuy?


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## Pete1313

Thanks for taking the time to read!

Regarding the two machines. First, the X590 is a great machine. No real regrets on that purchase. Maybe if I did it again, I would get it with turf tires instead of the HDAP.. but I'm not sure.

No regrets on the 2500B either, but I knew what I was getting into. A 2500B is not typically set up to mow at higher HOCs or handle big undulations and slopes. Reading thru my journals, you can see the upgrades needed to get it set up properly. Upgrades include fairway yokes, 3wd assist, larger front rollers, 7 blade reels, fairway knives. When set up right though, the 2500B had some significant advantages for my property. First the cutting heads steer into turns, something most trim/surrounds mowers don't do, making it easier on the turf in tighter turns. The other advantages are that it is significantly lighter and has a smaller cutting width when compared to a trim/surrounds mower. My advice is if your property is wide open like a football field, consider a 2653A/B as it will be set up better out of the gate to mow KBG and will handle the slopes/undulations. If your property has alot of tight areas or sharper turns consider the 2500A/B/E, but know that it might take some upgrades to get it where you want it.


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## eric1104

Thanks for the thoughts on the machines.

Unfortunately the larger machines won't fit through the doorway of the area of my unfinished basement where I plan to store it. The lighter, more agile greens mower seems to be a better fit for some areas of the yard as well, despite the necessary modifications. In my searching I have found a couple 2500b units with 7 blade reels. Would this mean that they would also have fairway knives or maybe even the fairway yokes? I see you switched to the smooth tires. I may have missed your commentary on this topic, but were the treads contributing to your rings? I've never driven a mower like this and the thought of driving it on a slope has me wanting all the traction I can get!

Finally, given the difference in your apparent mechanical skill and mine (although I can rebuild a carb and change my own brakes, so I'm not totally useless), would you recommend some things to look for when selecting a used 2500 b/e that would make it more manageable? For example - age, hours, recent services, etc?


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## Pete1313

@eric1104, 7-blade reels might have the fairway knives but not likely to have the yokes. The fairway yokes as well as 3wd assist are easy to spot from pics(I've seen a couple with 3wd assist for sale, but never the fairway yokes). If you have some pics of one you are interested in, I can look at them and see if they have any of those upgrades as adding them afterwards does cost some money and the 3wd assist does involve some electrical and hydraulic work.

I had smooth tires originally, then switched to turf, then went back to smooth. 

Smooth with 2wd-no good on slopes

Turf with 2wd-better on slopes, but wear out the grass in tight 10ft diameter turns

Turf with 3wd-awesome on slopes, but once again wear out tight trim passes

Smooth with 3wd-good compromise between traction and less wear in tight turns

Look for something 2000 hrs or less(especially if looking at a gasoline engine model) and preferably something under 10 years old. Common issues off the top of my head are cracking/leaks from the hydraulic hoses going to the reels and the lift arm bushings. The bushings will be hard to inspect unless you remove the heads, but you can kinda tell they are bad if the heads don't raise up high enough.

One warning, these machines do require mechanical ability to maintain. Sending the machine out for repairs instead of repairing yourself can make it cost prohibitive really quick.


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## eric1104

@Pete1313 Thanks again. This is great info... and reading more of your posts about the triplex over the past few days has really been informative regarding the machine and potential maintenance and upgrade work. You're great at documenting the process with pics - I tend to be so damn focused on the work that I forget. Would like to do a lawn journal next year, so I'll have to work on that!

I think I can now do a pretty good job at identifying features. I'm going to keep looking and get in contact with some people I know at local golf courses and see if I can get lucky. If I do see something that I have a question on, I may take you up on the offer and send over some pics, if you don't mind.


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## JerseyGreens

I've been following this Reno journal for a lot of advice the last few months for learning purposes on my own reno. Thank you for journaling it so well!

I may have missed it but did you throw down a "winterizer" N app after the growing season stopped on your reno?


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## Pete1313

@JerseyGreens, looking back at my notes I did put down a winterizer app. On 11/11/17, and it was 73 lbs of urea which = .84 lbs of N/M.


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## Chuuurles

Great read, thanks @Pete1313. Was getting a bit sad as i neared the end of this journal but then found the new journal  ! That 220B I sent you ended up selling a day after i found it after it had been listed for months...figures ha.


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## Pete1313

@Chuuurles thanks for reading my journal! Goodluck in your hunt for a reel mower!


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## Petraszewsky

Very happy to find a detailed thread with proof of concept for using extreme core aeration for leveling large areas. Thanks for taking the time to make detailed posts with pictures.


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## UFG8RMIKE

Hey Pete, awesome set up, your threads are what led me to tackle the huge 2500A restoration. She's nearly complete 
https://thelawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=27045

Our new home on 1 acre is getting closer to completion. The well has not been drilled yet. Wondering what would design if given the opportunity to start from the beginning.

Sounds like variable speed constant pressure pump is the way to go. Just not sure on what to shoot for regarding GPM and pump HP. The neighbors yards and irrigation systems are awful. No pressure, with just a few heads running per zone.

My biggest issue will be high iron content. I believe we're looking at drilling to 240ft to try and get better water. I've started calling around and they design treatment last, based on flow, iron content, and GPM.

.


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## Pete1313

@UFG8RMIKE you need to know your recovery and depth to water once the well is drilled. You won't be able to pick out a pump until then.


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