# My diagram ready to send to Rainbird?



## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

Hey guys, I am hoping to have Rainbird help me with the advisable sprinkler/irrigation layout. I have prepared the following diagram. Do you think it will be adequate to help them provide me with a good solution? 

PSI (at beginning of irrigation main, just after meter): 60 PSI
GPM (from a bib I put in just after the ball valve at the beginning of irrigation main): 10 gpm
Meter size: 5/8"
Mainline (copper pipe before and after the meter in my basement): 3/4"

Thanks so very much for any input at all.


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## Grizzly Adam (May 5, 2017)

What is that in the bottom left of the picture? This drawing will be more than adequate. I got mine back from them a while back and got them to make a couple revisions until things were how I wanted it. All you have to do is reply to the emails they send to contact them. I am now working on marking the lawn, as I just had my one call out yesterday. Upon completion, I will have them do one final revision to make sure that I have accurate documentation for future reference.


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

Grizzly Adam said:


> What is that in the bottom left of the picture?


First off, thanks so much for responding!

In the bottom left of the picture, meaning the 100' mark in the Y axis? Or the legend I made for the symbols?

I had no idea they would be so responsive as you describe. I figured it'd be like a "you're lucky we offer this service take what you get" kinda deal. That sounds pretty sweet.

Thanks again!!!


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## Grizzly Adam (May 5, 2017)

Majahops said:


> Grizzly Adam said:
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> > What is that in the bottom left of the picture?
> ...


The area by the shrubs and the house, opposite of the deck.

Here is my timeline:

January 31 - I submitted my info
February 16 - received version 1
February 16 - I made a revision request
February 21 - received version 2
February 21 - I made an additional revision request
March 1 - received version 3


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

@Grizzly_Adam
That's just my crap side of my house. Tons of sunshine-blocking pine trees with needles so acidic and destructive that they make it uninhabitable by anything worth growing.

I omitted my entire back yard from the drawing. I just don't have it in me to tackle that. Maybe once I can get my meter upgraded to 3/4". I did indicate that I'd like a manifold back there on the drawing though. I'm gonna run a pipe along my unfinished basement ceiling (with my other water pipes) and have that exit in the back yard…. So that I have one pipe exiting in the front and one in the back. Otherwise I need to get a pipe under a 21' driveway. I know the videos make it look easy to do that with water and pipe but I'm fairly certain I will mess that up. For now, the back yard pipe exit / manifold will serve my East front lawn (easier to wrap around the house than go under the driveway).

Really appreciate the discussion man. That timeline was very awesome. How many GPM you getting if I might ask?


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## Grizzly Adam (May 5, 2017)

10gpm at 42 psi. I have seven zones to make sure I have enough throughput.


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

Grizzly Adam said:


> 10gpm at 42 psi. I have seven zones to make sure I have enough throughput.


Nice! Maybe 10 is enough and I just have flow envy.


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## Grizzly Adam (May 5, 2017)

I think so! I hope so... I think with your PSI you won't have much issue.


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

Why someone hasn't made an inexpensive pressure booster is just beyond me. I have to imagine tons of people would buy one. As it is, they cost so much you might as well spend that money bribing the director of your water utility.



Grizzly Adam said:


> I think so! I hope so... I think with your PSI you won't have much issue.


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## ENVY23 (Sep 14, 2021)

Looks good to me. I used them at my last house and although it was a lot of work, it turned out great. Their design was spot on. I had to hire someone to do the backflow due to the utility company requiring a licensed plumber, as well as an annual inspection so you may want to check into that part.

As for going under the driveway, I did it. The water and pipe is BS, at least on my soil. It just made a muddy nasty mess and took forever. It may work for a 3ft sidewalk, but not 20' of driveway. I ended up renting a boring machine and bored under the driveway with an auger. WAY faster and less headache than the water, well worth the $$ to rent it. Once I got to the other end, I attached a 2" PVC pipe and pulled it back through. This made a "sleeve" or tunnel where I could then easily slide my irrigation pipe through it.


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## Grizzly Adam (May 5, 2017)

How are you planning to install the system when the time comes? I was originally going use a vibe plow to pull in the poly, but that won't work with the cpvc I am using for the mainline so I will be using a Ditch Witch 1030 instead.


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

ENVY23 said:


> Looks good to me. I used them at my last house and although it was a lot of work, it turned out great. Their design was spot on. I had to hire someone to do the backflow due to the utility company requiring a licensed plumber, as well as an annual inspection so you may want to check into that part.
> 
> As for going under the driveway, I did it. The water and pipe is BS, at least on my soil. It just made a muddy nasty mess and took forever. It may work for a 3ft sidewalk, but not 20' of driveway. I ended up renting a boring machine and bored under the driveway with an auger. WAY faster and less headache than the water, well worth the $$ to rent it. Once I got to the other end, I attached a 2" PVC pipe and pulled it back through. This made a "sleeve" or tunnel where I could then easily slide my irrigation pipe through it.


Almost nobody has irrigation systems around me. We only need to water like 6 weeks out of the year. Can't remember the last time I saw a sprinkler on. There's really just 1 guy who oversees the township from the Water Authority, so I can't imagine they enforce any water related stuff too hard. He seems very chill and supportive anyway. I will have multiple check valves including a double check valve. I'm honestly not trying to get it inspected yearly - that's craziness.

The other reason I'm not leaning toward doing the under the driveway thing is that I'm going to have manifolds in the back of the house anyway, and from back there it's not that long of a way to wrap around to the front of the house. That boring tool did look super legit I'll give you that. But I have no help, and again, I suspect I'll mess it up


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

Grizzly Adam said:


> How are you planning to install the system when the time comes? I was originally going use a vibe plow to pull in the poly, but that won't work with the cpvc I am using for the mainline so I will be using a Ditch Witch 1030 instead.


I was thinking just a standard trencher, either 12" or 36". If I put them at 12" I'll use 3/4 to 1" PEX, if at 36" I'll use 1.5" PVC. I think. I feel like I change my mind every day. Biggest factor is how much time I have to work, and that's generally very little. :/ if I use PEX I think I'll just hammer it down in the trench with garden staples, and let the sun tame it, then remove the staples. Seem reasonable?

I have a considerable downward slope toward my house. I'm not even including that in my submission to rainbird. I haven't had the time to measure the slope. I figure I'll just "take a little off the top" and make the top of the slope zones run longer than the lower ones. I know very Non scientific. This was my lawn last year as it was just taking root


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## Grizzly Adam (May 5, 2017)

I am going to be going about 8" because our local companies don't seem to bury anything but water as deep as they should. We have our cable drop, an unused phone drop, electric, gas, and water all running through the backyard.


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

Grizzly Adam said:


> I am going to be going about 8" because our local companies don't seem to bury anything but water as deep as they should. We have our cable drop, an unused phone drop, electric, gas, and water all running through the backyard.


Backyard? Lucky duck!


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

Is it sloping towards your house? Don't you get water in your basement that way?


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## Grizzly Adam (May 5, 2017)

Majahops said:


> Grizzly Adam said:
> 
> 
> > I am going to be going about 8" because our local companies don't seem to bury anything but water as deep as they should. We have our cable drop, an unused phone drop, electric, gas, and water all running through the backyard.
> ...


Yeah, the front yard is completely open. So that part will be nice.


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## Grizzly Adam (May 5, 2017)

Majahops said:


> @Grizzly_Adam
> I did indicate that I'd like a manifold back there on the drawing though.


What kind of manifold are you thinking? DIY? Premade? I am going with the ones Orbit makes, which will make things more serviceable for future me. I edited their images to illustrate my layout for future reference. See below.


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

San said:


> Is it sloping towards your house? Don't you get water in your basement that way?


Nope, cuz it curls to the west In the middle and rises back up just enough before the foundation. :/


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

You are absolutely owning me in the preparation category. I hadn't even truly thought much about what manifold I wanted. I figured a lot of that would come to me after I had an idea of how many zones I need. Frankly I'm pleasantly surprised nobody had told me not to run a pipe to the front AND backyard in the basement. 



Grizzly Adam said:


> Majahops said:
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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

Majahops said:


> San said:
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> > Is it sloping towards your house? Don't you get water in your basement that way?
> ...


Ok, just remember that your backflow preventer needs to be 12" above the highest point in your system.


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

San said:


> Majahops said:
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Nope not a double check valve, that's why I chose it


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## San (Jun 21, 2021)

Majahops said:


> San said:
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I don't think a double check valve would meet code for a sprinkler system.


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## Grizzly Adam (May 5, 2017)

Majahops said:


> You are absolutely owning me in the preparation category.


I think I have been preparing longer than you, though. Also, my job has a lot of down time and I have used some of that time to work on this.


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

The head of our water authority just said "we install a double check valve just after the meter, but if you want to put one on the irrigation system that would not be a bad idea." He said there's no need for more than that in terms of backflow preventers. Sounds like I hit the Jackpot in terms of water authorities. 


San said:


> Majahops said:
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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

San said:


> Majahops said:
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Backflow requirements depend on local code. In my city, a RPZ is required. They do not allow Pressure Vacuum Breakers or Dual Check Valves.

A reduced pressure zone backflow preventer doesn't cost much more than a dual check valve. It does not need to be above the highest head so you can do drip irrigation on second floor pots, and it offers the highest level of backflow protection. Most municipalities will require a RPZ. The downside is that it needs to be inspected yearly. If you plan to apply fertilizer and chemicals through your irrigation (not many people do), a RPZ is the only style rated for that.

If you don't have a lot of lawn slope and don't need/want to irrigate second floor pots, then you can use a pressure vacuum breaker. This needs to be installed 12 inches above the highest head in the system and can't be used with chemicals.

edited: grammar


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Majahops said:


> The head of our water authority just said "we install a double check valve just after the meter, but if you want to put one on the irrigation system that would not be a bad idea." He said there's no need for more than that in terms of backflow preventers. Sounds like I hit the Jackpot in terms of water authorities.
> 
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> San said:
> ...


All he cares about is protecting the municipal water supply. The backflow after the utility meter will do nothing to protect the water supply inside the house after the utility installed double check. The risk is low, but you can pull chemicals and bacteria from the lawn into the house plumbing without a backflow. A PVB is ~150USD, a RPZ is ~350USD. I think almost all reputable installers would recommend a backflow on an irrigation system.


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## Grizzly Adam (May 5, 2017)

bernstem said:


> Majahops said:
> 
> 
> > The head of our water authority just said "we install a double check valve just after the meter, but if you want to put one on the irrigation system that would not be a bad idea." He said there's no need for more than that in terms of backflow preventers. Sounds like I hit the Jackpot in terms of water authorities.
> ...


This is the one I went with, commonly used for sprinkler systems. The 3/4" model is $54 and the 1" is $106 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KI0WORE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

My top sprinkler will be 40" above where the backflow preventer would be. What device would you recommend for me in this situation?


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Majahops said:


> My top sprinkler will be 40" above where the backflow preventer would be. What device would you recommend for me in this situation?


I would use a reduced Pressure Zone. A double check is an alternative.

If you use a pressure vacuum breaker, it will need to be raised 52 inches to be above the highest irrigation head.


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

I'll do that then. Thanks so much your input means a great deal!


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

Sorry last question. I really want my back flow preventer to be underground can an RPZ be underground?



bernstem said:


> Majahops said:
> 
> 
> > My top sprinkler will be 40" above where the backflow preventer would be. What device would you recommend for me in this situation?
> ...


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Majahops said:


> Sorry last question. I really want my back flow preventer to be underground can an RPZ be underground?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


RPZs should always be installed above grade in an area with good drainage. In fact, most municipalities prohibit installation in a vault. RPZ backflows may siphon the surrounding water if submerged. Since they function by ejecting any backflow, the vault can fill with contaminated water which can then be pulled into the house plumbing.

Double check valves seem a bit more controversial, but general plumbing code strongly suggests that they not be installed in pits either. The risk of back siphoning when submerged is less, but not zero.

Bottom line, just install them above grade and hide them with some plantings or an enclosure.


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## Grizzly Adam (May 5, 2017)

Get a fake rock from Orbit.

https://www.google.com/search?q=orb...JHa_SAw8Q_AUoAnoECAIQAg&biw=414&bih=622&dpr=3


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

Thanks man, I think I'll do that!


Grizzly Adam said:


> Get a fake rock from Orbit.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=orb...JHa_SAw8Q_AUoAnoECAIQAg&biw=414&bih=622&dpr=3


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

I've almost lost all desire to do an irrigation system. The cheapest 1" RPZ I can find is $250. I need two of them since I'll have a pipe exiting both the front and back of the basement. That's not counting the box, rock and/or bush I'll need to buy to hide it. It's disheartening to shell out $500 for components that I didn't even realize Id need when I started. Can I at the very least place them in the basement or will there be some treacherous Reason I can't do that either?



bernstem said:


> Majahops said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry last question. I really want my back flow preventer to be underground can an RPZ be underground?
> ...


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Majahops said:


> I've almost lost all desire to do an irrigation system. The cheapest 1" RPZ I can find is $250. I need two of them since I'll have a pipe exiting both the front and back of the basement. That's not counting the box, rock and/or bush I'll need to buy to hide it. It's disheartening to shell out $500 for components that I didn't even realize Id need when I started. Can I at the very least place them in the basement or will there be some treacherous Reason I can't do that either?


Check your local codes, but you can install them in a basement with drainage in the floor. They can spit a bit of water so don't place anything near them that can't get wet. You can also install double check valves if cost is too high on the RPZ. You just shouldn't run chemicals through the irrigation then.

https://school.sprinklerwarehouse.com/parts-repair/types-of-backflow-preventers-overview-of-four-common-backflow-preventers/


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

Greatly appreciate it!


bernstem said:


> Majahops said:
> 
> 
> > I've almost lost all desire to do an irrigation system. The cheapest 1" RPZ I can find is $250. I need two of them since I'll have a pipe exiting both the front and back of the basement. That's not counting the box, rock and/or bush I'll need to buy to hide it. It's disheartening to shell out $500 for components that I didn't even realize Id need when I started. Can I at the very least place them in the basement or will there be some treacherous Reason I can't do that either?
> ...


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## ENVY23 (Sep 14, 2021)

I did the double check valve on mine because like you, I also wanted it underground in a valve box. It was all good until I rinsed my mouth out after brushing my teeth and tasted fertilizer in my water. Don't be cheap here, hire a pro for the backflow and get it tested annually. DIY everything else, but don't compromise you and your family's health/safety to save a few bucks.


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

Appreciate it very much. I'll buy a RPZ and see if I can hire a pro to install it.


ENVY23 said:


> I did the double check valve on mine because like you, I also wanted it underground in a valve box. It was all good until I rinsed my mouth out after brushing my teeth and tasted fertilizer in my water. Don't be cheap here, hire a pro for the backflow and get it tested annually. DIY everything else, but don't compromise you and your family's health/safety to save a few bucks.


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## ENVY23 (Sep 14, 2021)

Majahops said:


> Appreciate it very much. I'll buy a RPZ and see if I can hire a pro to install it.
> 
> 
> ENVY23 said:
> ...


No problem. Not trying to throw a kink in your plans, just trying to save you $$$ and a headache from sharing my own mistakes. Nothing worse than buying a backflow, installing it, and then having to buy ANOTHER backflow and redo the job because you did it wrong the first time. I wasn't even running chemicals through my irrigation, it must have came from what I spread on the lawn and worked into the sprinklers, back down the pipe and contaminated my house water. Funny thing is, the pro I hired got me the correct backflow AND installed it for only $100 more than the incorrect backflow I bought the first time. Well worth the money, IMO.


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## Majahops (Sep 26, 2021)

Ha! Yeah definitely don't want to pay twice and hopefully ends up being reasonable.


ENVY23 said:


> Majahops said:
> 
> 
> > Appreciate it very much. I'll buy a RPZ and see if I can hire a pro to install it.
> ...


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