# Planting new lawn with Arden 15 Bermudagrass



## Coldsprings

Hi Everyone,

I am new a new member and joined b/c I wanted to document my the progress of my new lawn and maybe get some ideas and assistance as I go along. I started the project about 3 weeks ago with the installation of a sprinkler system. I am on a well so it was a bit of a challenge to design the irrigation to keep the pump from cycling, leave water for house, and get even distribution on the future lawn. After researching, I decided Princess 77 was best seed option. When I was finally ready to order I discovered that Princess was replaced by Arden 15. I was reluctant to purchase due to the lack of info on this new variety, but ultimately pulled the trigger since its supposed to be the improved version of princess. So I spent 3 days prepping the soil. This included harrowing with my tractor, applying 6 bags of quicklime(based on soil test results), dragging with my chain spike harrow then flipping it over for the first round of smoothing/levelling, then hand raking 3 times to give it that personal touch. 😃 So I was finally able to put the seed (Approx 9lbs) and fertilizer(50lbs of triple 19) out on July 10th. I saw my first signs of germination on July 14th and have been at the hospital the last two days for the birth of my third daughter. Maybe this one will show some interest in lawn care. 😂 This gets us caught up to the current state.....sitting around the hospital patiently waiting to get home to show baby Charlotte the baby lawn that shares a birthday with her! Here are some catch up pics. I hope to keep this thread updated with progress.


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## LawnRat

Congrats!

I'll be putting down a test patch of Arden 15 next week after the 3rd round of glyphosate. Where did you get the seed from? I got mine from Outside Pride. After receiving it I did a bit more research and found them to be kind of sketchy...so I'm hoping for the best.


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## Coldsprings

I got mine from Hancock Seed. I was disappointed that it came in a brown bag....was expecting a Pennington bag....but I guess they make money by subdividing larger bags. It is coated with green and my test patches from a few weeks ago look pretty good. Will post a pic later.


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## LawnRat

Came in a plastic OP bag. I was expecting a Pennington bag too, and mine are coated green also. Not much info out there on the Arden so I guess we both have our fingers crossed. Supposed to be faster to germinate and fill in than 77, and I guess that is so with yours starting in just 4 days...great to hear.


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## JRS 9572

@Coldsprings I'm a 7th generation South Carolinian, and today I learned where Modoc, SC is. And it's only 60 miles from me. :lol: I need to find a dunce cap somewhere. 
Congrats on the new addition to the family. Hope mom and baby are healthy. 
Looking forward to watching the progress on the new yard. That red clay. We just have to embrace it.


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## Chocolate Lab

LawnRat said:


> Where did you get the seed from? I got mine from Outside Pride. After receiving it I did a bit more research and found them to be kind of sketchy...so I'm hoping for the best.


Can you expound on this? I hadn't heard this before.


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## LawnRat

Chocolate Lab said:


> Can you expound on this? I hadn't heard this before.


Google the name, many complaints come up. They even got caught making false positive reviews about themselves on Dave'sGarden and other websites. Lots of seeds not being what they are supposed to be, or not viable. The arden15 is certified, so I'm hoping that means something.


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## Coldsprings

JRS 9572 said:


> @Coldsprings That red clay. We just have to embrace it.


Yes, I may regret not hauling in some top soil but then you have the risk of also trucking in weed seeds. At least I know that the clay was a barren wasteland before and probably does not have a huge weed seed bank. I have planted about 4 acres of common bermuda pasture in the last year and found that the red clay in my area holds bermuda quite well as long as you adhere to soil test recommendations. I am planning on top dressing so maybe I will eventually have a good layer on top.

Baby and mom are doing great! Thanks for the well wishes.


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## JRS 9572

@Coldsprings yep there's tons of common "Coastal" Bermuda grown on red clay for hay fields around here in Lexington County. Of course they're fertilized by the chicken manure from the chicken houses. With all that Nitrogen you can probably grow it on an asphalt black top.


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## Philly_Gunner

Beautiful property and that prep looks spectacular!!


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## ctrav

This is going to be beautiful...Congrats!


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## Chocolate Lab

That is going to look amazing. I love these big projects done from seed.



> I am on a well so it was a bit of a challenge to design the irrigation to keep the pump from cycling, leave water for house, and get even distribution on the future lawn.


Can I ask about more about this? How many GPM can you get out of your well, and for how long? Did you design your system yourself or get help from the well driller (or someone else)? I have a shallow well and I'm always a little cautious about overusing it.


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## Coldsprings

Chocolate Lab said:


> Can I ask about more about this? How many GPM can you get out of your well, and for how long? Did you design your system yourself or get help from the well driller (or someone else)? I have a shallow well and I'm always a little cautious about overusing it.


The well has a recovery rate of about 12gpm so I designed my irrigation so that each zone uses about [email protected] approx 60psi. That leaves 3gpm for the house while system is running. The tricky part with a pump driven system is that I needed to plan my zones to use the full 9gpm. At lower rates the pressure will rise enough to cause the pressure switch to activate and cause pump cycling on/off. This cycling is very bad for pumps. So for my yard I had to plan my zones to stay close to 9gpm(ie 3 rotors per zone) and still not over/under water areas. Its a bit of a challenge and I am still fine tuning it. I have a total of 5 zones for my lawn and a 6th that is stubbed out for drip to my future flower beds and shrubbery. That zone may be tricky bc I just discovered my rainmachine controller will not allow to zones to run at the same time. I havent done the math, but guessing it would take a huge drip system to use 9gpm. The pump may just have to cycle for that zone.

So yes, I designed my system myself. I did refer to http://www.irrigationtutorials.coma good bit. It has a whole section to help you measure your well flow/pressure and design around those parameters. The layout of the site is a bit clunky and I got lost a few times...but in the end it all made sense.

Edit: Oh and the 12gpm recovery rate is the amount my well will supply indefinitely. I think the well driller sized the pump so that it would not go beyond that and empty the well. I have had wells with only 1gpm recovery which barely supported drip irrigation for my garden.


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## LawnRat

Coldsprings said:


> ..That zone may be tricky bc I just discovered my rainmachine controller will not allow to zones to run at the same time. I havent done the math, but guessing it would take a huge drip system to use 9gpm. The pump may just have to cycle for that zone.


Maybe you can just have that "zone" fill up a barrel for a few minutes, then let the drip system run off gravity till empty?


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## Coldsprings

LawnRat said:


> Maybe you can just have that "zone" fill up a barrel for a few minutes, then let the drip system run off gravity till empty?


Never thought about getting gravity involved! Pretty clever. Would just need a place to hide the storage tank.


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## JRS 9572

Smart move on the cycling of the well pump. It's the starting and stopping that causes pumps to wear out. Not the running.


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## MrMeaner

25% overhead on the well GPM is a smart move... I have two water wells on my property here in Lubbock and had 19 GPM to work with. I made sure my zones stayed at 12-15GPM over 6-8 heads per. I changed out nozzles according to radius of the throw.. for example 90 degree corners - 1gpm nozzle, 180 degree heads- 2gpm nozzle and full 360degree heads 3 or 4gpm nozzles.

I know you not suppose to but system has to run a long time to put down enough water. I water at night starting around 12:00-1:00AM.... so they are down by mowing time when water is needed for showers. Also helps as the wind dies down at night and evaporation is minimal. I run my drip system twice a week and start them at 10:00am well after showers are over and only thing that would need water would be for washing dishes, clothes or flushing a toilet. All seems to work well on this schedule for me anyway


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## Coldsprings

I am already considering some nozzle adjustments for corners. I have some spots that are staying too wet.


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## Coldsprings

Here is a pic of my test pots of the Arden 15. These were planted on June 20th in smaller peat pots then transplanted to these larger pots a few weeks ago, hence the small clumps in the center. I have been cutting the smaller pots pretty close and letting the larger pot grow a bit taller. You can see some stolon growth starting to occur.


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## Bmossin

Coldsprings said:


> Here is a pic of my test pots of the Arden 15.


I like to do test plantings as well when i was trying to figure stuff out.


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## JLAD

Beautiful property and home. Can't wait to see the end results.


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## sanders4617

Awesome! Incredible prep work. Looking forward to it


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## Coldsprings

Bmossin said:


> I like to do test plantings as well when i was trying to figure stuff out.


I just read your lawn journal. I had to laugh about the part where you left the hospital to pick up your JD reel mower. I know first hand how quickly you have to grab those good deals. I found a JD 260 on FB market last week for 300. It had been listed for 7 hours and got marked as sold before I got a response. Beat myself up for missing that one. But I ended up finding a decent Jacobsen locally. Fortunately I was able to get it 2 days before the hospital trip. My wife would have disowned me. 😂


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## Bmossin

Coldsprings said:


> Bmossin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like to do test plantings as well when i was trying to figure stuff out.
> 
> 
> 
> I just read your lawn journal. I had to laugh about the part where you left the hospital to pick up your JD reel mower
Click to expand...

She was like "Seriously?????"

If our daughter had not arrived a week or two early it would never have been an issue lol.

I know this will not be the last time she messes up my schedule when it comes to having things planned...but I did not expect it to happen as early as it did!


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## Coldsprings

Time for some germination progress pics. This was planted on the evening of July 10th so lets call it 7.5 days. I have decently even coverage and starting to see a green tint at certain angles. What I am seeing is that the areas that got well drenched are a few days ahead of other areas. There are some areas around the perimeter that were staying to dry and have only just started filling in since I adjusted sprinklers. Pretty pleased, but starting to get some algae in places so trying to decrease watering in those areas.


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## LawnRat

Coldsprings said:


> .. What I am seeing is that the areas that got well drenched are a few days ahead of other areas...


Good to know. What is your watering schedule? I was thinking of doing either 5 minutes every hour or 10-15 minutes every 2 hours in my sandy soil...


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## Coldsprings

LawnRat said:


> Good to know. What is your watering schedule? I was thinking of doing either 5 minutes every hour or 10-15 minutes every 2 hours in my sandy soil...


Each day has been a whole new experiment, but I am averaging about 5 min per zone. I say average b/c my zones range from 2min to 11 min in duration. Had to drop from 2 hour intervals to 1.5 hour yesterday. 100 degrees and windy dries the germination zone in a hurry.


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## ktgrok

Water definitely seems to be THE biggest factor for my bermuda grow in. I was doing about 6 minutes every 2 hours. The areas that got less water definitely lagged behind.


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## Chocolate Lab

Coldsprings said:


> Edit: Oh and the 12gpm recovery rate is the amount my well will supply indefinitely. I think the well driller sized the pump so that it would not go beyond that and empty the well. I have had wells with only 1gpm recovery which barely supported drip irrigation for my garden.


Nice, I guess the well driller has enough experience there to know...

Oh, just googled your town and see you're right next to a huge lake. No wonder it should never run out. So cool.

I'm so spoiled by my well... Not sure I could live without one now. I'm too cheap to irrigate too much with city water.

Thanks for the info.


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## Coldsprings

Ugg, I just wrote a big update and lost it all bu accidentally closing the tab. The add image tool threw me off bc it said I was blocked for violation of TOS. Is that a site wide problem or just me?


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## Coldsprings

Day 10 Update. This is going to be the less verbose version since I am annoyed about deleting my original post. 😢 The grass is finally starting to become noticable as a green haze in many places. The areas that are not noticable still have great germination but are either a few days behind or in areas where the surface has larger clay granules that are hiding the seedlings atm. I estimate about 250 sqft of bare spots in places where water was initially too light. Most of those spots are starting to show new sprouts now that water has been adjusted, so I still have hope.

Weeds are not a problem so far. I am just hand picking the occasional crab grass seedling.


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## LawnRat

I hate when that happens. That's why I always highlight and copy a long post before hitting send or any other button...

Looking good!


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## Coldsprings

Its is amazing how much difference 24 hours can make at this stage of the grow in. I hate it that I have areas in various stages of germination bc it makes watering tricky. I would really like to let some areas dry a bit but don't want the late bloomers(drier areas) to die off from this heat.


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## bbhawk

I'm in the middle of doing the same thing. Did you put down any fertilizer after you seeded it?


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## Coldsprings

bbhawk said:


> I'm in the middle of doing the same thing. Did you put down any fertilizer after you seeded it?


Yes, I fertilized based on soil test recommendations which called for about 60 lbs each of NPK per acre for the initial round and then nitrogen maintenance the rest of the year. For my 7700 sqft my math got me to about 10lbs of nitrogen so I did a full bag of triple 19. It has been almost 2 weeks so I am debating applying some slow release nitrogen in the next few days. A doc I found on greens establishment recommended .3 to .7 lbs per 1000sqft every 5 days during the grow in. I'm sure my heavy clay soil is not going to leach as much as a golf green so I will prob go with the lighter rate to be safe.


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## ktgrok

Coldsprings said:


> bbhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in the middle of doing the same thing. Did you put down any fertilizer after you seeded it?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I fertilized based on soil test recommendations which called for about 60 lbs each of NPK per acre for the initial round and then nitrogen maintenance the rest of the year. For my 7700 sqft my math got me to about 10lbs of nitrogen so I did a full bag of triple 19. It has been almost 2 weeks so I am debating applying some slow release nitrogen in the next few days. A doc I found on greens establishment recommended .3 to .7 lbs per 1000sqft every 5 days during the grow in. I'm sure my heavy clay soil is not going to leach as much as a golf green so I will prob go with the lighter rate to be safe.
Click to expand...

that's good to hear, because tonight I got distracted and mixed up 0.5lbs per 1K instead of the 0.25lbs per 1k I meant to do, lol. It's been I think 10 days since I last put down fertilizer, so sounds like I'm well within the limits - and I DO have sandy soil like a golf green. This makes me feel better about my oops.
Edited to add: Never mind, I didn't mess up after all. I did do 0.25lbs N!


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## Coldsprings

ktgrok said:


> that's good to hear, because tonight I got distracted and mixed up 0.5lbs per 1K instead of the 0.25lbs per 1k I meant to do, lol. It's been I think 10 days since I last put down fertilizer, so sounds like I'm well within the limits - and I DO have sandy soil like a golf green. This makes me feel better about my oops.


Here is the link to the article I was referring to about planting greens and a handy calculator I found that takes the guess work out of application rates. Would be nice if they actually labelled with actual pounds of nitrogen instead of a percentage...I get confused all the time as well.
http://agebb.missouri.edu/fertcalc/

http://gsr.lib.msu.edu/2000s/2003/031101.pdf


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## JRS 9572

@Coldsprings hopefully some of those thunder boomers that came through Friday night helped you out as well. Looking great.


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## ktgrok

Coldsprings said:


> ktgrok said:
> 
> 
> 
> that's good to hear, because tonight I got distracted and mixed up 0.5lbs per 1K instead of the 0.25lbs per 1k I meant to do, lol. It's been I think 10 days since I last put down fertilizer, so sounds like I'm well within the limits - and I DO have sandy soil like a golf green. This makes me feel better about my oops.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the link to the article I was referring to about planting greens and a handy calculator I found that takes the guess work out of application rates. Would be nice if they actually labelled with actual pounds of nitrogen instead of a percentage...I get confused all the time as well.
> http://agebb.missouri.edu/fertcalc/
> 
> http://gsr.lib.msu.edu/2000s/2003/031101.pdf
Click to expand...

Thank you! Although I thought about it again and realized no, I didn't mess up, I did put down 0.25. Just a brain fart, lol. The stuff I was using worked out to 1/8th of a gallon being 0.25 Lbs N. Which is 16oz. But for some reason last night when I was sitting here reading this I was thinking I was supposed to use 8oz, not 1/8th gallon. Had to go back and check my math.


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## Coldsprings

@ktgrok Oh, you are using that fancy liquid stuff! I can't compete with that. I think I have decided to make an application today, just gotta decide what I am using. I bought some 34-0-0 but Would only need like 11 lbs of it to get to .5lb per 1000. Worried about application density being light at that rate. I've also got a bag of milo and more triple 19 so I guess I have mixing options.

@JRS 9572 We got a small amount of rain out of that storm....under 1/4 inch. Going on 3 or 4 weeks now with no significant rain but I am almost ok with it until this lawn gets rooted in. My bermuda pastures look like hell though.


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## Coldsprings

I just took another look at my soil test and realized that I am light on my phosphorus application. I feel like the youngest seedlings are not progressing very quickly and they all have a dark purple color. Turns out the bag of milo is just about the right amount so it is going out today. May even spike it with some triple 19. You can see how much variation I have in this panoramic and I will post a pic of the newest sprouts in a bit.


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## Romangorilla

So just to chime in, I had the same issue in my P77 Bermuda reno a couple months ago. My seed germinated very well, but then just "sat" for awhile and the new leaf blades turned purple (Worry set in). At the advice of @Greendoc who advised to stay away from the "trendy" fert and just put down a balanced fert like 20-20-20 at 1# per 1000, and it cured the purple leaf blade issue (he stated it was a nutrient deficiency) and started to push the growth of the Bermuda.
Can't wait to see the finished product!


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## Coldsprings

@Romangorilla Thanks for the info! My test pots were a bit slow the first few days but then they took off. Some of these newest sprouts have been the same for the last 5 days. Also note the staggered sizes in the same square foot. There is no overseeding here...all planted the same time. Maybe the earliest germinators sucked up the nutrients needed and the most recent are just in limbo. My initial phosphorus application was short by like 30+% so I am sure that is a big factor. Turns out I really needed a high P starter fertilizer for my first application.


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## ktgrok

Coldsprings said:


> @ktgrok Oh, you are using that fancy liquid stuff! I can't compete with that. I think I have decided to make an application today, just gotta decide what I am using. I bought some 34-0-0 but Would only need like 11 lbs of it to get to .5lb per 1000. Worried about application density being light at that rate. I've also got a bag of milo and more triple 19 so I guess I have mixing options.


that's why I went with the liquid, was afraid I couldn't get down the light amount I'd need of the granular. And I totally cheated - Gordon's puts right on the label that 1 gallon = 2.1 # nitrogen. So from there is was easy math. (as long as you remember you want 1/8 of a gallon, not 8 oz, when you leave the paper you wrote it down on on the desk and are too lazy to go back and get it, lol). So 16 oz (1 pints) = 0.25 #N. Then dilute that in whatever amount of water you need to cover 1k sq feet. Or if you want a half pound, use 32oz, etc. I wanted 0.25 just so that if I wasn't even with my application I had less chance of burning it. And so I'm not mowing twice a day, lol. With our raining season starting I have a feeling I'm going to be doing a LOT of mowing. Thankfully lawn time is my happy time.


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## JRS 9572

@Coldsprings same here. Storms look like they're coming. They travel over Lake Murray and heading towards us.....and fall apart.


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## Coldsprings

@JRS 9572 I can't see the gauge but we have had several good showers already and it is still raining. Perfect spacing between showers so not alot of run off. 😄


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## Coldsprings

Ended up with .75 inches spread over 3 or 4 hours. We had very little run off, which is great for the grass.....not so great for my pond. &#128518;


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## TalonII

I really wish I would have found this site about 4 months ago. I just so happened to come across it while searching for info on Arden 15 since I saw it was replacing Princess 77.

I moved into a new construction last winter and had to add a ton of dirt to raise it up/level. I had no lawn. I tried to seed with the princess but had the worst luck with unexpected heavy rain and vast majority of it got washed out. I have a few spots where it stuck and it looks beautiful. Just trying to get it to spread now.

Now I'm fighting a ton of weeds and common Bermuda. I'll be following this thread and quite a few others to try and rehab my lawn into something serviceable.

Btw, Geaux Tigers!


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## Coldsprings

@TalonII Glad to have you as part of the discussion. I also noticed the lack of information on Arden 15 so I started this thread as a way to compile what I learn about it. I was really concerned about a washout after I planted but got "lucky" with drought like conditions. I have had washouts on some of my pasture plantings before so I know it feels like a gut punch. Even common bermuda seed is pricey enough to get your feelings hurt if it doesn't go well. Would love to see some pics of your Princess 77. Do you see any evidence that Princess would win out against common if it had a head start? I have about 2 more acres around the house to plant but I don't want it moving in on my front yard.


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## TalonII

Coldsprings said:


> @TalonII Glad to have you as part of the discussion. I also noticed the lack of information on Arden 15 so I started this thread as a way to compile what I learn about it. I was really concerned about a washout after I planted but got "lucky" with drought like conditions. I have had washouts on some of my pasture plantings before so I know it feels like a gut punch. Even common bermuda seed is pricey enough to get your feelings hurt if it doesn't go well. Would love to see some pics of your Princess 77. Do you see any evidence that Princess would win out against common if it had a head start? I have about 2 more acres around the house to plant but I don't want it moving in on my front yard.


I'll try to take some pictures when I get home. It'll be a small sample size though haha. Luckily I have about 5lbs left over so pretty soon when I see a window I will lay down what I have and pick up again next spring where I left off.

I think if I keep cutting high it will absolutely take over the common. Correct me if I'm wrong but I figured that was the best way to encourage it to spread out. It is incredibly thick and I can go out there almost every other day and notice it spreading out, especially around my blueberry bushes. I guess it loves getting hit with that extra fertilizer.

It looked like to me that the biggest difference between p77 and Arden 15 is that a15 germinates quicker?


This was May 20th. The area I have seen most growth so far is along the patio and of course in the lower spots where the seed all washed into. :lol:


To give you an idea what I'm working with as far as soil goes. So far I've put down one application of triple 16 and the grass responded well. I will do another soon.


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## Coldsprings

@TalonII Good to hear on the competition thing. I noticed alot of people seem to use the soilsavvy tests. Have you been pleased with it? I noticed it lists soil ph but I don't see any recommendations for the amount of lime. Do they not provide that?


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## Coldsprings

Today's project is to get this flower bed in shape which includes setting up a drip irrigation zone. I just planted the knock out roses a few days ago and have some other perrenials to plant. The roses look a little rough bc they have been sitting in pots since mothers day. 🤔


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## TalonII

@Coldsprings Yeah I noticed they don't make any recommendations for ph. I was going to just go slowly and test with a ph kit after each application, but I noticed something funny. The spots where the p77 is doing the best is right up next to the blueberry bushes. I used soil acidifier on them but the grass is growing like weeds all around it.

I am to the point I may just leave the ph alone and focus on raising my nutrients to where they need to be then re-evaluate.


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## Coldsprings

Nobody told me that my front yard would smell like a septic tank exploded with this Milorgnite. Right out of the bag it was ok. Kind of an earthy smell....but it gets worse as soon as water hits it. &#128169;


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## jakemauldin

They say it's the smell of success!!


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## BadDad

Coldsprings said:


> Nobody told me that my front yard would smell like a septic tank exploded with this Milorgnite. Right out of the bag it was ok. Kind of an earthy smell....but it gets worse as soon as water hits it. 💩


It's human waste from Milwaukee sewers lol


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## Coldsprings

Day 15 Update:
I am sooooo close to being able to refer to my front yard as "the lawn". 😁 The areas that germinated first are really starting to fill in, but there are areas that are lagging behind. I still have pretty solid seed germination even in the bare spots, but it seems they have stalled the last 4 or 5 days. The purpleness seems to being slowly improving so I am hoping the fertilizer from 2 days ago is starting to help. I do have a few spots that are going to need more seed. It seems I have a few sandier spots that making irrigation a challenge. Keeping the sandy soil damp means over watering the clay around it. I bought some peat to mix in those areas and I am prepared to make a temp clear plastic green house over these spots if necessary. This morning I used the mower to roll the better half of the yard. There were lots of small pepples and debris on the surface so I wanted to flatten it before mowing. That half of the yard will prob be cut in the next day or two. no Also, the flower bed and drip irrigation are nearly complete.

I like this low angle pic bc it hides the bad spots. 😆


Flower bed progress.


Starting to get rhysome growth. 




The left side of the picture shows the sandy area. The bare red clay area in the middle still has lots of seedlings....just need them to grow.


The area between the trees has been rolled. Don't think you can tell from the pic.


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## JRS 9572

Red Clay. It's permanently stained the bottoms of all of our feet. How our ancestors got anything (produce or vegetable wise) to grow back in the olden days is beyond me.


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## TalonII

@Coldsprings Reading your update made me realize I never posted a current pic of my back yard. You definitely got more germination than me haha





The picture does it way more justice than it deserves. The further out you go the more it is weeds than the Bermuda. But there are decent strongholds of it sprinkled throughout. Enough to work with anyway.

The first pic is of the strongest spot up close to one of the blueberry bushes. I just mowed and it doesn't appreciate me doing it once a week right now. It recovers within a day or 2 though. It has really started to spread in the past few weeks though. You can barely see it now but the empty patch on the left was completely bare and about 2ft in diameter a month ago. There was another just like it but about a foot across near it that has completely filled in.

I'm thinking next week I'll hit the yard again with some triple 16, follow up with some Celsius to start knocking back some weeds, then see where I'm at heading into the greatest season of all: Football season!


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## Coldsprings

I guess I should consider myself lucky that I do not have much weed competition yet. I walk through once a day and pull about a handful of crabgrass sprigs. There is another grass that is hard to differentiate from Bermuda when it is young. Fortunately it has a more vertical growth than the bermuda right now and the leaves get wider as it gets taller. It isnt a problem right now, but I had to chuckle that it looks so similar. Nature always finds a way. And yes, ready for football as well. Go Dawgs!


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## Coldsprings

@TalonII Would be interesting to know what made the blueberry spot do so well. I know you said there was something used acidify the soil....is there anything else you have done there that migjt be a factor?


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## TalonII

I do the same with my precious spots of Bermuda. The wife looks at me like I'm crazy while I pick weeds out the lawn in this little area.

Hopefully I'll find a prime time to throw down the rest of the p77 seed I have left over and see if I can't get it all to establish a solid hold around my patio so I have a good foundation to work with next spring.

So far I haven't applied anything to rid the weeds.


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## TalonII

Coldsprings said:


> @TalonII Would be interesting to know what made the blueberry spot do so well. I know you said there was something used acidify the soil....is there anything else you have done there that migjt be a factor?


The only other thing is that a lot of my run off from the roof flows through there. But I water the backyard religiously so I can't imagine the extra water made that much of an impact.


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## Coldsprings

The flower bed was mostly done lastnight.


Woke up this morning to discover MY WIFE'S dog tried to destroy it.


My wife has been a vet tech all our married lives and lemme tell you it is a constant battle keeping her animals out of my landscaping. At least it wasn't the goats this time.😆

In other news, I couldn't take the bare spots any longer. Bought a bag of peat moss and incorporated it into the top half inch of soil in the problem areas, then reseeded. I think peat moss is my new best bud. It makes this nasty red clay so much more visually appealing. Seriously considering top dressing the entire lawn with it. This clay is very sterile and has expansive properties. It seems to go from too dry to too wet. I also read that silty clays can hold a good bit of water that isnt a available to plants due to being bound in the small particles of clay. We'll see how these spots respond over the next week.

BEFORE




AFTER


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## ktgrok

I can say that the areas I did use peat moss on the bermuda grew so much faster and better. In fact, my two bare areas that are still not filled in are the areas where the peat moss kept washing out. Now I have thick areas of peat moss around those areas, where it washed into, lol. My ph is a bit acidic, so you wouldn't think the bermuda would love peat moss, but it does.


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## Coldsprings

@ktgrok My soil started very acid...like 4.6ish so the peat will fit right in. I applied fast acting lime when I planted so I need to recheck the PH.


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## Coldsprings

I couldn't stand it anymore. I had to cut some grass! Not to mention I had some 2 inch blades in places. The mower did great. Its ser to approx 7/8 HOC, which is the highest setting.


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## ktgrok

Looks good!!!!


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## jakemauldin

I like it, Are those Gardenia's and a Rose bush in the flower bed? LOVE the smell of Gardenia blooms!


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## Coldsprings

@jakemauldin A couple of the rose bushes have white blooms, and there is some white Lantana. It doesn't look like much right now but everything is perrenial and will hopefully fill in nicely. But I am with you on the Gardenia. Will definitely have some of those


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## Coldsprings

Hard to believe it has been 5 days since my last fertilizer application. Since this has evolved into my journal thread, I will note that today I applied approx 25 lbs of 16-4-8 fertilizer. It apparently has 25% slow release due to having sulfur coated Urea. I am trying to stick to about .5 lbs of nitrogen every 5 days until the bare spots start to fill in. I also dusted most of the bare spots with peat moss, but need another couple of bags to finish. I will get some pics shortly. I really have some spots that need to be mowed but my last mowing adventure bruised some areas where I made repeated turns. Gonna let everything dry out from watering in the fertilizer before any mowing.


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## Coldsprings

Once you have to start edging, does that mean you can start calling it lawn? 😆


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## Coldsprings

I got's stripes! They're patchy....but they are stripes.


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## Coldsprings

I did a second mowing of the entire yard lastnight. I started another thread about some patchy discoloration that I thought was bruising from my mowing 3 days ago. Lastnight I decided to cut with the soil still damp, which turned out to be a bad idea. I the wetter areas the rollers started accumulating clay. I had to stop twice to clean them off as my HOC was steadily getting higher. I also have a million little leaf hoppy bugs that I will spray today. I'm not sure if they cause any damage or not but not taking chances.


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## LawnRat

Coldsprings said:


> ... also have a million little leaf hoppy bugs that I will spray today. I'm not sure if they cause any damage or not but not taking chances.


Springtails maybe?


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## Coldsprings

@LawnRat I am almost positive these bugs have wings but I will try to catch and photograph later today.


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## TalonII

Coldsprings said:


> I got's stripes! They're patchy....but they are stripes.


Looking good! You definitely have way more than I did.


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## Coldsprings

@TalonII Thanks! I am fairly pleased so far.

I need some help identifying a new problem that appears to be occurring. I started a seperate thread because I thought my mower was bruising the high spots of my lawn. Now 3 or 4 days have gone by and the areas of lighter/yellowish grass seem to be expanding. At this point I suspect either a fungus/disease or possibly too much fertilizer. Here's the info and pics of the problem:

*Yellowing is concentrated in thicker growth only
*Leaves with ground contact are completely yellow/dead

*Tops of these areas are still growing at normal rate

*The soil has been kept damp 24x7 bc still trying to germinate the bare spots

*The two most recent changes have been mowing and .5lbs/1000 of nitrogen applied 3 or 4 days ago.

I am applying a fungicide today as a precaution but any thoughts on this?


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## tcorbitt20

That looks like a fungus to me. The lawn is looking great! Really coming in nicely!


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## Coldsprings

@tcorbitt20 Thanks! I am worried sick about this yellowing problem though. I basically turned off the irrigation yesterday and hand watered the dry and newly planted spots. I also applied a granular lawn fungicide at the "curative" rate and then watered it in as stated in the directions. It may be my imagination but it looks a little better this morning.


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## Coldsprings

I think if it was fertilizer burn I would be seeing yellowing in the thinner spots as well, not just in the dense stands of grass.


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## ktgrok

If you want to add more preventative/treatment without worry about stressing the grass, I found this stuff. https://southernag.com/residential-products/garden-friendly-fungcde-12x1-pt/
Safe, not too expensive, can use it up to twice a week if you want to, just smells a bit weird (in the bottle, not on the lawn, you only use a tablespoon max per gallon)


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## Batsonbe

Coldsprings said:


> I guess I should consider myself lucky that I do not have much weed competition yet. I walk through once a day and pull about a handful of crabgrass sprigs. There is another grass that is hard to differentiate from Bermuda when it is young. Fortunately it has a more vertical growth than the bermuda right now and the leaves get wider as it gets taller. It isnt a problem right now, but I had to chuckle that it looks so similar. Nature always finds a way. And yes, ready for football as well. Go Dawgs!


@Coldsprings 
I was pulling weeds in my new Bermuda, that I seeded, and noticed this as well. I started pulling them because I noticed the leaves were much wider as well.


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## Coldsprings

@ktgrok Thanks! Looks like it has good reviews on Amazon and covers 40k sqft of lawn! That is way better than any of the concentrates they had at Lowes.

I used 2 bags of this stuff: https://www.lowes.com/pd/BAYER-ADVANCED-Lawn-Fungus-Control-10-lb-Lawn-Fungus-Control/3027697


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## Coldsprings

@Batsonbe I havent noticed any more of it the last week so hopefully I got it all.


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## ktgrok

Coldsprings said:


> @ktgrok Thanks! Looks like it has good reviews on Amazon and covers 40k sqft of lawn! That is way better than any of the concentrates they had at Lowes.
> 
> I used 2 bags of this stuff: https://www.lowes.com/pd/BAYER-ADVANCED-Lawn-Fungus-Control-10-lb-Lawn-Fungus-Control/3027697


Yup- for the price per 1K it's worth trying, I figure. I imagine if nothing else I'll keep adding it to any other liquid applications, as a preventative. In general, southern agricultural products are a fairly affordable option it seems.

I also used the BioADvanced stuff, just the liquid version. I also used Scotts Disease Ex to have two modes of action. Seems to be clearing up, and I continue to apply the garden friendly stuff at 1 tablespoon per gallon in the mean time.


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## Coldsprings

@ktgrok I am usually skeptical of "organic" solutions bc they often seem to be over hyped and under effective...but I read up on the active ingredient in the link you posted. 98.85% Bacillus amyloliquefaciens strain D747*

Best I can tell, you are actually "seeding" the lawn with a beneficial bacteria that fights fungus. That is kinda neat. I'm not clear yet whether its a one time application since what I read said that it readily reproduces with available nitrogen. Urge....to....perform.....experiment.....rising!!!


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## ktgrok

Between that product and the BT and Spinosad I use for caterpillars it's biological warfare in my yard


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## Coldsprings

Quick update. We got 2 inches of rain in short order over the weekend. My reseeded areas were about 7 days post germination and didn't handle the rain very well. The peat moss tends to float so it washed away from the seedlings. For the ones that remained I re-covered in peat and they seem to be doing ok.

The yellowness seems to have turned the corner and I think some of the darker greens are coming back. As best I can tell, the grass growth rate has not slowed down so hopefully there is not any permanent damage.


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## cglarsen

Almost time for a weekly picture update. :thumbup:


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## Coldsprings

@cglarsen Here are some pics after todays mowing. I will reluctantly admit that the lawn has been neglected this week. I tried to cut it 2 days ago and ran out of gas half way through. So half of the grass was too high to even cut with the reel mower. So I had to break out the old rotary, then made a second pass with the Jacobsen. The lines are all over the place bc I couldnt tell where I had been very well. The bare spots are gradually getting smaller and I already see drought stress under the pine tree after only one day of decreasing my watering. I fully expect to have a bed around that tree but thought I would give the grass a shot.


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## Coldsprings

So I have a few questions for the mowing pro's. I am at 7/8 HOC and I think I may drop to 1/2". Should I just go straight to the new height or do it gradually over several days/cuts?

Also, what is the best technique to make the turn from one line to the next with a greens mower? My jacobsen has a single clutch for reel and forward motion and I also have throttle control at the handle. My current approach is to cut two rounds on the perimeter then start cutting the straight lines. But at the end of one run I throttle down but can't seem to make the turn quickly enough and end up leaving a patch of grass on the inside of the turn. I have tried clutch disengagement but the mower is alot harder to turn with no power.


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## LawnRat

That's looking great!


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## cglarsen

@Coldsprings Looking really nice. I guess Arden 15 IS more scalp resistant considering you chopped it down with a rotary and then reel mowed and I can't tell where that happened by the photos. Did you seed at 2 lb/M?


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## Coldsprings

@cglarsen No, I put out 9 lbs over approx 7500 sqft.....not sure the math on that but closer to 1lb/1000. The reason the odd 9 lb number is I bought 10lb and held back 1lb for reseeding bad spots.


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## Coldsprings

Alright, I did the math and it has been 36 days since planting. Neglect has been the theme of the last 8 days. I switched to watering for about one hour every morning. I also paused my fertilizer applications with the hope that less water and fertilizer would cure the fungus symptoms. As a result, the growth has slowed and the grass color is unremarkable. The pictures are from this morning. You can see the bare spots and color variation better from this angle. Note the area under the pine tree looks particularly stressed. This area was completely brown 2 days ago but we have had a few rain showers the last 24 hrs.

Today I applied .5lb N/1000 along with a spraying of pesticide as the leaf hoppers are back with a vengance as well as a few fire ants trying to move in. Hopefully a green up happens over the next few days. I am going to try to get back to the 2 day reel mowing schedule and I MAY drop my HOC to .5 inch over the next week. The height in the pics is probably 1.25" as I keep going too long and having to use the rotary.


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## Coldsprings

Took the drone up for an aerial view. Check out that domination line between my yard and......the rest of my yard. 😜


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## TalonII

Coldsprings said:


> Took the drone up for an aerial view. Check out that domination line between my yard and......the rest of my yard. 😜


Is that a low spot to the right of the tree where the patches are?


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## Coldsprings

@TalonII You mean right here? If so, this was a place that had really grainy clay due to some subsoiling I did before planting. I think it actually didnt hold moisture well until it got a few good rains to settle the clay. I ended up reseeding with some peat and it is filling in pretty well now.


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## TalonII

@Coldsprings Gotcha, yeah that was the spot.

I was just curious because my seeds didn't take hold in any of my low spots. But they held a lot more water than they do now. I guess the weeds soak up all the water now :lol:


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## Coldsprings

While I was plucking weeds today I noticed some sort of caterpillar in the grass. Over the course of 30 min I discovered 4 or 5 of them. I just sprayed yesterday but I am worried that I didn't use a high enough concentration and/or irrigated too quickly. I fertilized at the same time and was trying to water that in. The caterpillars seem to be most interested in the clumps of crabgrass around the perimeter but I am going to keep a close eye on it. I had some help from nature though. A flock of 50 or more sparrows combed the lawn for bugs. I saw several with caterpillars.

In other news, I didn't get any suggestions on reel mowing techniques so I experimented with what I am calling double stripping. I started in the middle and made 2 passes in each direction, gradually working away from the center. This helped with the sharp turns I asked about a few posts ago but there is some wasted walking going from one side to the other as you get further out.

Birds



Double Stripe


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## ktgrok

OMG - KILL THE CATERPILLARS!!!!!!!!!
Seriously, do NOT play around. 
What did you use? The only thing that worked for my army worm invasion was Spinosad. Tried 3 or 4 other things before that, and it was what worked.


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## ENC_Lawn

Double Stripe

[/quote]

Wow...the lawn is looking awesome!!! :thumbup:


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## Redtwin

I have a flock of cowbirds that comb through my yard daily. I've seen some moths and a few caterpillars but no damage so I am letting nature do it's thing. I have treated so they are only getting the ones who made it through. Between the frogs, lizards, and birds, I think I have it covered.


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## Coldsprings

I keep letting the lawn go 4 days without cutting so I end up cutting twice in the same day. First time with rotary to get it low enough for the reel. Here are some pics of today's cut. Rotary was at about 1.25" then reel at 5/8".


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## Coldsprings




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## ENC_Lawn

@Coldsprings

Nice!

Looks good...and it's pretty cool you went that long between cuts and it still looks that good!!! :thumbup:


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## LawnRat

Coldsprings said:


> I keep letting the lawn go 4 days without cutting so I end up cutting twice in the same day. First time with rotary to get it low enough for the reel. Here are some pics of today's cut. Rotary was at about 1.25" then reel at 5/8".


That's looking great, and growing fast. I'm starting to worry that my Ar15 is growing too fast. I'm growing it in with "only" about 1/4 lb of N&K every 5 days, much less than i've seen many guys here use, and mine is growing almost 3/4" a day. Cutting at 1" I, of course, have to mow every day. Now that I'm pretty well filled in I'm going to back down on the fert but I'm afraid this stuff won't ever slow down!

I've been bagging since the clippings seem to add up too fast...I see you aren't...have you had any problems with the clippings getting too thick?


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## JRS 9572

@Coldsprings did you get some of that rain last night? I was happy to see it.


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## ktgrok

LawnRat said:


> Coldsprings said:
> 
> 
> 
> I keep letting the lawn go 4 days without cutting so I end up cutting twice in the same day. First time with rotary to get it low enough for the reel. Here are some pics of today's cut. Rotary was at about 1.25" then reel at 5/8".
> 
> 
> 
> That's looking great, and growing fast. I'm starting to worry that my Ar15 is growing too fast. I'm growing it in with "only" about 1/4 lb of N&K every 5 days, much less than i've seen many guys here use, and mine is growing almost 3/4" a day. Cutting at 1" I, of course, have to mow every day. Now that I'm pretty well filled in I'm going to back down on the fert but I'm afraid this stuff won't ever slow down!
> 
> I've been bagging since the clippings seem to add up too fast...I see you aren't...have you had any problems with the clippings getting too thick?
Click to expand...

Definitely think you can back off, and maybe time to consider PGR?
Also, what form of nitrogen are you using?


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## LawnRat

ktgrok said:


> Definitely think you can back off, and maybe time to consider PGR?
> Also, what form of nitrogen are you using?


Sometimes AS, sometimes urea. A lot of it was slow release that should hold me over for a while if I stop all fert for a couple weeks. I'm definitely interested in PGR but with only about 300 sq ft of reel cut grass I'm going to have to check the marketplace for splits.


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## Coldsprings

@LawnRat 
Mine definitely doesnt grow as fast since I reduced my fertilizer frequency. I really need to research to see the most cost effective slow release thats worth a darn. If I could get to a point of monthly fert applications and keep the good dark green look that would be ideal.

@JRS 9572 We have been pretty fortunate with the rain the last 2 weeks. I have cancelled quite a few sprinkler cycles. My controller will actually do weather based adjustments but I found that the closest NWS station(Augusta) almost never matches my weather. I may have to try switching to Greenwood SC since it is firmly in the piedmont region where AGS is on the edge of the coastal plain. It seems like Interstate 20 is the demarcation line for storms. 🤔


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## JRS 9572

@Coldsprings

My demarcation line is anything that comes from the north across Lake Murray. I fizzles out by the time it comes to me on the south side.

The 1" I got last night came through Edgefield and rolled through eastward.


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## Coldsprings

Quick fall update. I seriously neglected the lawn for the entire month of September. We had basically zero rain and I left my sprinklers on the daily short run watering pattern from the seeding phase. I finally did some measuring and it was equivalent to less than 1/10th inch of rain per night. With the heat, I suspect very little of that water was being used by the grass. It didnt grow at all for a month and was gradually losing its color. I switched to running sprinklers twice a week with about .4 inches per watering. I also applied 25 lbs of triple 19. In 5 days the lawn is almost back to pre-neglect status. Its nice to know I can go into a holding pattern if I ever need to focus on other things for a few weeks. &#128518;


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## LawnRat

Coldsprings said:


> Quick fall update. I seriously neglected the lawn for the entire month of September. We had basically zero rain ...


That describes my September almost to a T. Between no rain, the low reel cut and the hot sun my AR15 turned brown and crispy. I was busy with life and let it go for weeks. I watered it for a few days and the green came back and it started growing again. I let it grow out to about 2" and have been cutting it at that height with my tractor (sacrilege I know) and it looks good to me.

Earlier this year I started a post named "why no Bermuda in Florida". I see now why, especially reel low. IF you can spend enough time and money (water is expensive down here!) the bermuda looks great. But if, like me, you have many other hobbies and projects that need your time also, well... it might not be the best choice. But it seems to be much more forgiving at the higher HOC, cut once a week now instead of every day, so I'll keep it there for a while and see how it adapts.

Like you said, it's great to know the AR15 will bounce back quickly from neglect.


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## Coldsprings

@LawnRat 
I am guessing you have sandy soils which would be less forgiving than my clay when it comes to watering. With my well water I really don't have much excuse.


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## ktgrok

Coldsprings said:


> @LawnRat
> I am guessing you have sandy soils which would be less forgiving than my clay when it comes to watering. With my well water I really don't have much excuse.


Yup. According to what I looked up my soil type can hold about 0.05 inches of water per inch of soil. It's a sieve, plus hydrophobic, so fun times.

Luckily my city has cheap water, and the head of the water management district told me flat out they won't fine anyone for watering on days they are not supposed to. 
Unluckily, my DIY irrigation system has a few spots that stay pretty dry, so i lost some grass to drought stress, but once I figured it out and started hitting those spots with a hose end sprinkler or just hand watering they started to come back.


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## Coldsprings

Hope everyone's lawns survived the winter. My Arden is starting off slowly and I may have just set it back even more. I noticed that there were spots that were way greener where the dogs had peed so it was obvious that I needed to fertilize. I started with the new stuff lowes has that is a rip off of milorganite. I havent been too impressed with it. The granules are bigger and VERY slow to dissolve. As in, I put it out over 2 weeks ago and can still see the granules. So I threw out some triple 19 I had about 4 days ago. Here's where I may have gone wrong. 3 days ago I applied some Image bc of an emerging nutgrass/weed problem. I may have applied that too early.....the grass is looking pretty bad already and I think it will get worse before better. Is there risk of killing the bermuda with this stuff or just yellowing?


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## Ljlawn2019

we reseeded some golf greens with arden 15. Experiencing same problems. our soil samples say our phosphorus levels are very high. we are putting 1# nitrogen per 1000sq ft and 2# potash per 1000, this is recommended by soil samples from Mississippi State University. we are using granular fertilizer. what should we do to improve grass. I thought about spraying with liquid iron


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## Coldsprings

Ljlawn2019 said:


> we reseeded some golf greens with arden 15. Experiencing same problems. our soil samples say our phosphorus levels are very high. we are putting 1# nitrogen per 1000sq ft and 2# potash per 1000, this is recommended by soil samples from Mississippi State University. we are using granular fertilizer. what should we do to improve grass. I thought about spraying with liquid iron


My lawn was definitely delayed due to the Image herbicide application. It finally started to recover a few weeks ago and is starting to look pretty good.


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## Coldsprings

Here's another picture that looks a bit more lush. Still trying to get my water and fertilizer applications dialed in to keep the green color more consistent.


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## JRS 9572

Looks fantastic. It's funny. When it finally warms up consistently the turf gets going.


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## Coldsprings

JRS 9572 said:


> Looks fantastic. It's funny. When it finally warms up consistently the turf gets going.


Yep, and I'll never apply Image that early in spring again. It got rid of my nut grass but cost me several weeks of lawn green up.


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## NObody

any update pics?????


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## Coldsprings

NObody said:


> any update pics?????


Here ya go. Feels like its taking forever to green up, but I just looked back and saw that last year it was late May before the Image issue wore off.
I scalped pretty hard about 1 week ago and its trying to come back after lots of water and fertilizer.


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