# Pre-emergent recommendations



## wchang23 (Apr 9, 2020)

Hi everyone,

I will be swinging by my local Ewing landscape store soon and while I am purchasing fertilizers I would like to pick up some pre-emergent in advance for the fall/early winter application. What do you recommend for hybrid Bermuda grass to prevent POA annua weeds? Is an active ingredient of prodiamine good to use for Bermuda grass? I came across this brand - HJE 0-0-7 Crabgrass Control Plus Fertilizer - 50 lb. Bag https://store.ewingirrigation.com/51210750-0-0-7-crabgrass-control-plus-fertilizer-50-lb-bag Has anyone used this brand before and know how many square feet the 50lb bag can cover? Thank you!


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## wchang23 (Apr 9, 2020)

Or should I go with Anderson pre-emergent with Barricade as active ingredient for POA annua weeds?

https://store.ewingirrigation.com/51220700-0-0-7-turf-fertilizer-with-0-426-barricade


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

I don't use that brand but I do spray Prodiamine on my Tifway-419 with pretty decent success.


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## LoveMyLawn (Oct 14, 2019)

What package size is the Anderson's at Ewing? DoMyOwn has Prodiamine on sell right now. FALL10 coupon code gets less 10%. $32.00 for an 18lb bag.


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## LoveMyLawn (Oct 14, 2019)

Actually I see Amazon has 18lbs of Anderson's for about $32.00(with tax)


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## lambert (Sep 12, 2018)

I use prodiamine 65WDG now, but in the past I have bought 50 pound bags of Lesco 0-0-7 with Stonewall (prodiamine) for under $30.00. If you have a Site One near you you might look into that.

That product from Ewing looks like a good deal too.


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## wchang23 (Apr 9, 2020)

Thanks for all the replies. So the prodiamine will work well for POA annua weed during the winter and I can apply the same pre-emergent in early spring for crabgrass weeds in the summer?


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## lambert (Sep 12, 2018)

wchang23 said:


> Thanks for all the replies. So the prodiamine will work well for POA annua weed during the winter and I can apply the same pre-emergent in early spring for crabgrass weeds in the summer?


I've had good poa control with prodiamine, but there is a lot of poa out there has become prodiamine/dithiopyr/pendimethalin resistant. If you have a bad poa problem you might look at Specticle (indiaziflam) for your early fall app.

Also you can use prodiamine as your late winter app too for crabgrass and other weeds -- it works well for that.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

wchang23 said:


> Thanks for all the replies. So the prodiamine will work well for POA annua weed during the winter and I can apply the same pre-emergent in early spring for crabgrass weeds in the summer?


Yes. With that said, applying *just* prodiamine in the fall is likely going to be insufficient. Indaziflam as @lambert mentioned is a great option. Another is to mix prodiamine with something that has a different mode of action, such as simazine, and/or negate.


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## ltsibley (Jul 30, 2019)

Figured I'd revive this instead of starting another pre-emergent thread...

I'm trying to determine my schedule for this fall + 2021 for pre-emergent. I mainly have poa under control but did have some come up late last season along with some broadleaf weeds. I've only been applying my own chemicals the past two years (all of 2019 and now 2020). This year I've added a walk-behind sprayer to my arsenal and have it dialed in pretty good. I currently have Prodiamine, Princep (Simazine) & Pennant Magnum (S-Metolachlor) on hand. I haven't used Simazine before so I plan on using that as my early fall app. My question is: what should my schedule be for fall/winter/spring/summer on pre-emergent? I've watched @thegrassfactor video on pre-emergent and probably need to watch again but I do understand different MOA and groups. But I'm having a hard time planning what my schedule should be and if I should add any other pre-em to my bag. Last year I did all granular but I plan on spraying all pre-ems moving forward to get more uniform coverage. Another thing throwing me off is the split apps I've read about. Any help would be appreciated.

And if there's another thread that clearly states all this feel free to point me in that direction.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

ltsibley said:


> Figured I'd revive this instead of starting another pre-emergent thread...
> 
> I'm trying to determine my schedule for this fall + 2021 for pre-emergent. I mainly have poa under control but did have some come up late last season along with some broadleaf weeds. I've only been applying my own chemicals the past two years (all of 2019 and now 2020). This year I've added a walk-behind sprayer to my arsenal and have it dialed in pretty good. I currently have Prodiamine, Princep (Simazine) & Pennant Magnum (S-Metolachlor) on hand. I haven't used Simazine before so I plan on using that as my early fall app. My question is: what should my schedule be for fall/winter/spring/summer on pre-emergent? I've watched @thegrassfactor video on pre-emergent and probably need to watch again but I do understand different MOA and groups. But I'm having a hard time planning what my schedule should be and if I should add any other pre-em to my bag. Last year I did all granular but I plan on spraying all pre-ems moving forward to get more uniform coverage. Another thing throwing me off is the split apps I've read about. Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> And if there's another thread that clearly states all this feel free to point me in that direction.


There's really no one way to do it. Figure out a plan that you will like and keep a note pad updated on the good and the bad them build from there.

Example how I sprayed this year I won't spray like that next year as I've learned a few things that I want to try. This is how I sprayed this year

February prodiamine and simzine (half rate)
May pennant magnum (full rate)
August diythpor (full rate)
October prodiamine and simzine (half rate)

Good luck


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## BUbbaSwine (May 8, 2018)

Movingshrub said:


> wchang23 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for all the replies. So the prodiamine will work well for POA annua weed during the winter and I can apply the same pre-emergent in early spring for crabgrass weeds in the summer?
> ...


If you are adding Negate, what mix rate p/1K are you using? The math is making my head hurt


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## Mewwwda (Jul 15, 2020)

Trying to learn here as well, but to keep from starting another thread on this, I'll ask here. I started my own reno the first week of July with Arden 15. Will it be ok to put down a PE this fall or should I wait until next year?

Basically how long should I wait after seeding to put down a PE?


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

@Itsibley I am very similiar to @CenlaLowell .

September 1st-7th: 1/2 rate Dithyiopyr(grassy) and 1/2 rate Isoxaben(broadleaf)
September 15th or so: Full rate Simazine(POA +++) 1/2 qt for 20K
February 15th 2021: 1/2 rate Dithyiopyr and 1/2 rate Isoxaben

I have prodiamine as well but want to use the two bags I have of dithyiopyr. Decided this year to add another mode of action with Isoxaben for better broadleaf control. My reasoning was two fold and explained in the below publications that I posted on another thread.

https://cdn-ext.agnet.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/ESC-042-bermudagrass-lawn-management-calendar.pdf
https://neilsperry.com/2020/08/prevent-winter-weeds-now/


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

@Mewwwda I am not an expert on new seed but this is from the Prodiamine label:

WHEN TO APPLY QUALI-PRO PRODIAMINE 65 WDG AFTER OVERSEEDING TURF
Injury to desirable seedlings is likely if Quali-Pro Prodiamine 65 WDG is applied before the secondary roots of seedlings are in the second inch of soil (not thatch plus soil). To reduce the potential to injure overseeded turf, wait 60 days after seeding or until after the second mowing, whichever is longer, before applying Quali-Pro Prodiamine 65 WDG.

In addition:

May be used on newly sprigged or plugged Bermudagrass at rates not to exceed 0.80 lb./A (0.30 oz./1000 sq. ft.). Newly sprigged or plugged Bermudagrass stolon rooting may be temporarily retarded.


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

@wchang23 I read your earlier post. Prodiamine (the bag selected) has done an adequate job of preventing grassy weeds, some broadleaf, and fair POA control in my opinion.

This year I decided to add Isoxaben for better broadleaf control. With a 3500 sq. ft lawn I would look at adding something like this in addition to your Prodiamine for better overall control.

https://www.domyown.com/fertilome-broadleaf-weed-control-with-gallery-p-2016.html

The two combined would give you two different modes of action plus superior grassy and broadleaf control with minimal expense. Do not mix in hopper since they are different prill sizes.


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## Jeremy3292 (Apr 30, 2020)

cldrunner said:


> @wchang23 I read your earlier post. Prodiamine (the bag selected) has done an adequate job of preventing grassy weeds, some broadleaf, and fair POA control in my opinion.
> 
> This year I decided to add Isoxaben for better broadleaf control. With a 3500 sq. ft lawn I would look at adding something like this in addition to your Prodiamine for better overall control.
> 
> ...


Any idea of the spreader settings for Ferti-Lome w/ Gallery? I am terrible at figuring them out lol I have a Scotts Elite spreader.


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## PGunn (May 17, 2020)

Disclaimer ** I do not have a lot of knowledge in this area but figured I would share what I am going to try on my new Zoysia that was laid back in June.

These are tentative dates set, as long as the soil temps cooperate with me...
Sep 15 - Prodiamine
Nov 15 - Prodiamine + Simazine or MSM
Mar 15 - Pendelum
May15 - Pendulem + Momument

I am hopeful that this mixture will help cover different MOA groups.


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

@Jeremy3292 First you have to determine how much you want to put down. I would measure out 5.7ibs and walk off a 1000 sq ft section. Start with the smallest number on the spreader 2-3 and put down the 5.7 ibs. Then you will find out if you need to bump up the opening up to 3-4 or 4-5. It is not an exact science. From the label:

Apply ferti•lome® Broadleaf Weed Control with Gallery® using a drop or rotary-type spreader designed to apply granular fertilizer. Calibrate application equipment prior to use according to manufacturer's directions. Check frequently to be sure equipment is working properly and distributing granules uniformly. Do not use spreaders that apply material in narrow concentrated bands. Avoid skips or overlaps as poor weed control or plant injury may occur. More uniform application may be achieved by spreading half of the required amount of product over the area and then applying the remaining half in swaths at right angles to the first. When using a drop-type spreader, a splash board mounted below the release point will provide more even granule distribution.
Broadcast Application Rates
Apply ferti•lome® Broadleaf Weed Control with Gallery® at a broadcast rate of 4.6 to 5.7 lb per 1000 sq ft. A minimum rate of 4.6 lb per 1000 sq ft is recommended for optimum results. Use the higher rate in the rate range where heavy weed infestation is anticipated.

Higher rates equals more weeds covered. The downside with this bag is you probably need 3 bags for your size yard. To me then I would be looking at spraying with this:
https://www.seedranch.com/Gallery-75-DF-Herbicide-1-Lb-p/gallery-75df-1.htm
https://www.lawnandpestcontrolsupply.com/products/isoxaben-wg-herbicide-gallery-75-df?_pos=1&_sid=2405903fa&_ss=r

You could get 5 full spraying applications (2 1/2 years) of full rate coverage going the spray route. Higher upfront cost but $27 per app vs. $75 for three bags. I think Ace Hardware and smaller mom and pop nursery's may have the bags cheaper.


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## Movingshrub (Jun 12, 2017)

BUbbaSwine said:


> Movingshrub said:
> 
> 
> > wchang23 said:
> ...


The Negate label indicates for Bermuda and Zoysia - 1.5 ounces of product PER ACRE, so 0.0344 ounces per 1,000 sqft.
Switching to grams - 42.5243 grams per Acre = 0.97622 grams per 1,000 sqft.

Also, NIS is suggested.


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## ltsibley (Jul 30, 2019)

cldrunner said:


> @Itsibley I am very similiar to @CenlaLowell .
> 
> September 1st-7th: 1/2 rate Dithyiopyr(grassy) and 1/2 rate Isoxaben(broadleaf)
> September 15th or so: Full rate Simazine(POA +++) 1/2 qt for 20K
> ...


Thanks for the info @cldrunner & @CenlaLowell .

I understand the schedule and product choice will change for everyone...I guess I'm just trying to understand the best schedule in the sense of split apps and general application interval/time of year. Also, I don't mind purchasing more chemicals and I'm trying to determine the best ones to have one hand maybe for a four year rotation. Everyone talks about Prodiamine and Dithyiopyr and obviously those are the same class so I would assume just use on or the other, no need to use both.

So to clarify: which chemicals are best for fall/winter and spring/summer. and what would be good to ones to have on hand that would be different groups and I could swap around for several years...
ie 2021 = prodiamine, isoxaben, simazine
2022 = dithyiopyr, S-Metolachlor & ?
2023 = prodiamine, simazine & ?
2024 = dithyiopyr, isoxaben & ?.

Something to that effect. And I understand it may need to be 4 or more products each year so just trying to figure out what those may need to be.


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

@Itsibley My four pre-emergents that I am going with for the next few years are:

Dithyiopyr(grassy and some small seed broadleaf)(k1,3)---- *$1.05 per 1000 sq ft*
Prodiamine(grassy and some broadleaf)(k1,3)-----*$0.30 per 1000 sq ft*
Isoxaben(broadleaf)(L,21)------*$4.15 per 1000 sq ft*
Simazine(grassy and some broadleaf-- mostly used for POA)(c1,5)------*$0.17 per 1000 sq ft*

Prodiamine and Simazine are very cost effective. Dithyiopyr is a little more expensive and Isoxaben is very expensive.
My rotation is not only based on the best science but I also share chemical with a neighbor(1 acre) who basically says "buy it and tell me when to put it down". I will probably use Isoxaben and Simazine every spring and fall and rotate the prodiamine and dithiopyr depending on how much I have. At some point I may rotate Specticle Flo for the Isoxaben in the spring for better pre sedge control but it is even more expensive at $5.75 per 1000 sq ft. They are the same mode of action. I would like to hear more from people who are using Specticle Flo and their results.


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## ltsibley (Jul 30, 2019)

@cldrunner that is great info! Thank you for the breakdown of the costs as well. I've been meaning to do that because I'm actually considering offering cheap pre-em treatments to a few of my neighbors just to help our cul-de-sac look better and they constantly ask me questions as well...so the cost breakdown helps me should I do that.

I have also wondered about Specticle Flo so I'd be interested to hear peoples experience with it.

In my mind I was thinking it would be best to skip the (k1,3) group every other year and use something else (and the same goes for any other group) in order to keep weeds from building resistance...am I over-thinking that?


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## Redtwin (Feb 9, 2019)

Be careful spraying for a fee unless you have your applicator license. A disgruntled neighbor could throw you under the bus.


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

@itsibely ( I can not seem to get your name to pop up in the menu after the @ sign.). North Texas lawnowers only need to remember two dates for a decent lawn. Valentines Day and Labor Day. Get any type of pre-emergent down before those dates and your lawn will be respectable.

If I was helping smaller lawn neighbors (5K-10K) I would just go to SiteOne and buy the granular pre-emergent and have them use their spreader to put down. It is more expensive but it really takes someone with an interest in reading the label to be able to correctly use some of these herbicides. At least with granules you just give them a bag and say "try to evenly sperad this across your whole yard in multiple patterns until you run out. Spraying takes a lot of practice and some missteps to get good at it.

https://www.siteone.com/en/701150-lesco-fertilizerherbicide-pre-emergent-dimension-021-0-0-7-a/p/342075

50 lb bag($36) covers 9K for $4.00 per 1,000. More than the $1.05 for WSP but still a bargain. For $72 (two bags) a year a homeowner with a 9k yard could be almost weed free and only take 10 min each time to walk the yard and apply.

Less than a 5K yard and I would send them to HD or Lowes and buy "crabgrass preventer" for $20 and hope for the best.


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## lawn789 (Jun 16, 2019)

I read somewhere in a university study not to use simazine on matrella zoysia cultivars. For instance Zeon. Not sure how true this is.


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## Darth_V8r (Jul 18, 2019)

Man, Y'all are sounding like professional biochemists in here!

Last fall, I used Pre-M for the first time. I waited until December to apply, since I had a wedding in my backyard in november and didn't want to take a chance wrecking the grass - it was a rebuild year. I put down prodiamine, and nothing else. Again in February, and again in May, and my weed pressure this year was 95% reduced from previous years.

Is what y'all are doing rotating the Pre-M's based on trying to get that last 5%, or is it that I got lucky and prodiamine was effective against the weeds that tried to encroach this year, and next year might go differently?


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## mwemaxxowner (May 30, 2020)

lambert said:


> I use prodiamine 65WDG now, but in the past I have bought 50 pound bags of Lesco 0-0-7 with Stonewall (prodiamine) for under $30.00. If you have a Site One near you you might look into that.
> 
> That product from Ewing looks like a good deal too.


In terms of effectiveness, how did that granular app compare to the 65wdg? I have determined that prodiamine needs to be my pre em, for sand spurs, but I'm a little green behind the ears on spraying. I'd prefer a granular application.

At some point I have to get comfortable with it, but I'd rather my learning curve be on a less important task.


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

@Darth_V8r I think every region is different as well as every neighborhood. I live more on the edge of town surrounded by open land. Like you said, I think Prodiamine or Dithiopyr would prevent 90+ percent of weeds. I am adding Isoxaben this year for better broadleaf (Spurge protection). It may or may not be worth the money. I will know next year. The problem is those 10% of weeds cause extra mowings, look bad, and cost on the post control side.

I have used Simazine the last two years in the fall for POA. It has worked extremely well for me and it is extremely cost effective to apply. It only cost $0.17 cents per 1000 sq ft to apply.

@lawn789 The Simazine label says:
Precautions: On newly sprigged turfgrass, hybrid bermudagrass, nondormant bermudagrass or non- dormant zoysiagrass, temporary slowing of growth and yellowing may occur following application.

Even on my hybrid bermuda I go with the lowest application rate. I would treat zoysia the same way.


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## lawn789 (Jun 16, 2019)

cldrunner said:


> @Darth_V8r I think every region is different as well as every neighborhood. I live more on the edge of town surrounded by open land. Like you said, I think Prodiamine or Dithiopyr would prevent 90+ percent of weeds. I am adding Isoxaben this year for better broadleaf (Spurge protection). It may or may not be worth the money. I will know next year. The problem is those 10% of weeds cause extra mowings, look bad, and cost on the post control side.
> 
> I have used Simazine the last two years in the fall for POA. It has worked extremely well for me and it is extremely cost effective to apply. It only cost $0.17 cents per 1000 sq ft to apply.
> 
> ...


Thanks..I'll check it out


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## lawn789 (Jun 16, 2019)

cldrunner said:


> @Darth_V8r I think every region is different as well as every neighborhood. I live more on the edge of town surrounded by open land. Like you said, I think Prodiamine or Dithiopyr would prevent 90+ percent of weeds. I am adding Isoxaben this year for better broadleaf (Spurge protection). It may or may not be worth the money. I will know next year. The problem is those 10% of weeds cause extra mowings, look bad, and cost on the post control side.
> 
> I have used Simazine the last two years in the fall for POA. It has worked extremely well for me and it is extremely cost effective to apply. It only cost $0.17 cents per 1000 sq ft to apply.
> 
> ...


Just wanted to correct myself on that. It states when sprigging matrella zoysia


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## ltsibley (Jul 30, 2019)

cldrunner said:


> @Darth_V8r I think every region is different as well as every neighborhood. I live more on the edge of town surrounded by open land. Like you said, I think Prodiamine or Dithiopyr would prevent 90+ percent of weeds. I am adding Isoxaben this year for better broadleaf (Spurge protection). It may or may not be worth the money. I will know next year. The problem is those 10% of weeds cause extra mowings, look bad, and cost on the post control side.
> 
> I have used Simazine the last two years in the fall for POA. It has worked extremely well for me and it is extremely cost effective to apply. It only cost $0.17 cents per 1000 sq ft to apply.
> 
> ...


@Darth_V8r there is also the possibility of resistant to a pre-emergent, which is why I'm inquiring about which ones to rotate. I have used only dithiopyr, prodiamine & pennant magnum for the past two years and have had great spring/summer weed control and decent fall/winter weed control. I have also have reel low turf, which helps fight off weeds as well.


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## ltsibley (Jul 30, 2019)

cldrunner said:


> @itsibely ( I can not seem to get your name to pop up in the menu after the @ sign.). North Texas lawnowers only need to remember two dates for a decent lawn. Valentines Day and Labor Day. Get any type of pre-emergent down before those dates and your lawn will be respectable.
> 
> If I was helping smaller lawn neighbors (5K-10K) I would just go to SiteOne and buy the granular pre-emergent and have them use their spreader to put down. It is more expensive but it really takes someone with an interest in reading the label to be able to correctly use some of these herbicides. At least with granules you just give them a bag and say "try to evenly sperad this across your whole yard in multiple patterns until you run out. Spraying takes a lot of practice and some missteps to get good at it.
> 
> ...


Yeah my user throws people off...it's Ltsibley...instead of itsibley.

Anywho, I have helped my neighbors with granular applications before but with the cost effectiveness of the liquids along with building a sprayer this year I figured I could go that route for a more uniform application for myself...and also somewhat doing a split with my neighbors and applying it for them. @Redtwin makes a good point though so I might have to draft up a contract and have them sign it that I'm not liable for any damage :lol:


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

@ltsibley I just read a Purdue article that said to rotate every 2-3 years for resistance. I get the split with the neighbors. I am able to buy some bulk items because I split with a neighbor or two. In fact I just exchanged some Certainty for some honey that his bees produced. That was a SWEET deal!!


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## PGunn (May 17, 2020)

Prodiamine 65WDG 5gl on Domyown.com for $65 vs. LESCO Stonewall 65WDG 10lbs for $115. Is this a name brand premium? Is there another Prodiamine recommendation out there?


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

PGunn said:


> Prodiamine 65WDG 5gl on Domyown.com for $65 vs. LESCO Stonewall 65WDG 10lbs for $115. Is this a name brand premium? Is there another Prodiamine recommendation out there?


@PGunn I just saw this post. Are you sure it is 5gl(gallons). I think it comes in 5lb. I just ordered this:

https://www.seedranch.com/Prodiamine-65-WDG-Herbicide-p/prodiamine-65-wdg-5lbs-bag.htm

It is a 5ib bag. This is cheaper($59.95) than other I have seen and I also got a 5% discount.


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

@ltsibley As I was reading this thread again I saw that you were using Pennant Magnum. It seems to me that Pennant Magnum is one of the only pre's that will control nutsedge. Have you seen better control of nutsedge since you have started using it? It seems like a very cost effective way to control nutsedge.


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## ltsibley (Jul 30, 2019)

@cldrunner I did see better control this year (applied at 28ml(.95oz)/1000). I still had it pop up in the usual places but it wasn't near as much as last year. Then after a round of Celsius/Certainty it diminished even further. I still had some pop up late in the season that I just sprayed with C&C again a couple weeks ago. I also had very good control over every other weed I use to have problems with (crab, dallis, etc)...although I've had good control over those for the past couple of years. Overall I'm definitely happy with Pennant Magnum.


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## CenlaLowell (Apr 21, 2017)

I agree, pennant magnum has done pretty good for me as well. Remember though these pre emergent take time to work through and probably need multiple seasons to get rid of those weeds totally.


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## BudaTx (Jul 15, 2020)

Am I missing something about Negate? Does it also have pre emergent qualities? Quick look at the label says it is for post emergent..


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## cldrunner (May 14, 2019)

@BudaTx It's a post emergent. What are you trying to use it for?


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## BudaTx (Jul 15, 2020)

cldrunner said:


> @BudaTx It's a post emergent. What are you trying to use it for?


I was reading the first page and it was said to possibly add Negate to Prodiamine as a second mode of action. Which had me a bit confused because the Negate label says it's a post emergent. I'm all good here. Maybe some others are confused or doing a combined pre and post emergent treatment. Thanks


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