# MJR12284 Fall 2020 Reno



## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Hello all! Here is my plan for my Fall 2020 reno covering approximately 5,200 sq. ft. in my backyard. I'm going with a mix of TTTF/KBG which I purchased from The Hogan Company.

TTTF = Titanium 2LS, Rebounder, Firewall, Paramount (80%)
KBG = Blue Note, NuGlade, Midnight, Legend (20%)

I would love to hear your feedback, and I look forward to documenting my journey along the way. I've been updating the below schedule throughout my reno.

*Schedule*

*July 28 *- Spray Glyphosate (8oz/Gal per 1k) w/ AMS (1 TBSP per Gal) & Water

*August 9 * - Scalped lawn and 2nd Round of Glyphosate (8oz/Gal per 1k) w/ AMS (1 TBSP per Gal) & Water. (Planned 2nd round for August 4 but TS Isaias got in the way.)

*August 15* - Scalped lawn again and used de-thatcher blade to scrape up the dead grass.

*August 17* - Spread 12 yards of screened topsoil. Fallow for 2 weeks.

*August 28* - Spot Spray Glyphosate/Hand Pull Weeds as Necessary

*August 30* - SEED DOWN
Rake seed into soil
Roll seed
Spray Tenacity at 4 oz./acre rate
Peat Moss (7 bales)

*September 4* - Germination of TTTF (DAS 5)

*September 5* - DAG 1

*September 13* - DAG9 - 1st Mow with Manual Reel Mower (2in)

*September 18* - DAG14 - 2nd Mow with Manual Reel Mower (2in).

*September 26* - DAG 23 - 3rd Mow with Manual Reel Mower (2in). Now watering only twice per day.

*September 27* - DAG 24 - 1st Spoon Feeding (0.25lb Urea)

*October 2* - DAG 28 - 4th Mow with Manual Reel Mower (2in)

*October 3* - DAG 28 - 2nd Spoon Feeding (0.25lb Urea)

*October 5* - DAG 31 - Sprayed Propiconazole at 1oz/1k rate. Now watering only once per day.

*October 10* - DAG 36 - 1st Mow with Rotary Mower and 3rd Spoon Feeding (0.25lb Urea)

*October 18* - DAG 44 - 2nd Mow with Rotary Mower. Decided to skip 2nd Tenacity blanket app. due to no weed pressure, time of year, and weather conditions.

*October 20* - DAG 46 - 4th Spoon Feeding (0.25lb Urea)


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Welcome to the Reno club!

Start GLY sooner if you can. 
Scalp sooner before the grass mats down which is what happened to me. Check out my journal. 
Keep first 2 GLY apps 7 days apart. Worked wonders for me. 
Add AMS - 1 tbsp per Gal to the GLY mixture. Found it on amazon. 
It's hot right now - water that lawn really well before 1st GLY app. You want the old lawn to have vigor before nuking it.

Personally like to add all starter ferts, soil amendments etc before seed. 
Also recommend rolling the seed in.

Just a start for my ideas. Good luck!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Thanks @JerseyGreens! I will try to begin GLY sooner if I can, and will definitely scalp sooner to avoid the issue you have. Purchased AMS off Amazon last night, too. I planned to roll seed in as well. Debating the peat moss. Trying to find a peat moss spreader rental around here. I've updated my Reno schedule above with these edits.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Just got my soil test results back from Rutgers Soil Testing Lab. I opted for the basic report. Looks like my pH is just about perfect, but my NPK results are off the charts high. I'm somewhat surprised by this because I have not fertilized much this year -- I had hired TruGreen in March and they came out for a few visits, but I cancelled my contract with them when I discovered this site  Any ideas of what I can/should do to bring my NPK numbers down? Should I change anything about my fertilizing plans for this upcoming reno? My micronutrient numbers they say are "adequate," except for Iron which is "High."


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

All you need is nitrogen.


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## Matthew_73 (Jul 9, 2019)

MJR12284 said:


> Peat Moss (trying to find peat moss spreader rental)


Good luck.


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## Matthew_73 (Jul 9, 2019)

I was told if high in P. Starter fert not needed. Just a 21-0-0 would be suffice. .25-.33 lb per k


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Thanks @g-man and @Matthew_73! I won't add a starter fert then.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

I picked up a Scott's 20 in. reel mower today off FB Marketplace for $25 -- good deal. Will use the reel on the reno.

I also bought gly this weekend and will do a first application tomorrow evening at 8oz/Gal per 1k rate and mix in AMS at 1 TBSp/Gal rate.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Welp, tonight was the point of no return. First round of gly done. Plan to do Round 2 one week from today. I tried to keep the spray uniform but I'm sure I'll have some missed spots. I need to update the name of this journal since my wife has nicknamed this reno "Project Blaze" since I keep telling her I'm torching the lawn!

Here are some pics of my lawn from opposite angles right before I put down the gly.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

Hi @MJR12284,

I'm also from Northern NJ and also doing a reno. Started earlier. My timeline is about the same as @JerseyGreens. Planning to put down the seed next week. Tomorrow is my third round of glyphosate.

Good luck with the renovation!


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

Now there were 3! I like it.

Hoping we can all learn from each other along the way.

@shadowlawnjutsu looks like you will be first to get seed down.

I'm planning to fallow the top a good 3 more weeks. Can't wait to your seed down pics!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Been following your renos as well @shadowlawnjutsu and @JerseyGreens. Looking forward to seeing your progress as well.

I'm on Day 3 after 1st round of Gly and am not seeing much browning going on...hoping that changes over the weekend. I'll do my 2nd round of Gly on Tuesday (1 week after 1st round). Plan to bring in some topsoil and do as much fallowing as I can before seed down date (planning last week in August, weather permitting).


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## JerseyGreens (Aug 30, 2019)

The rain we got last night will help. You went heavy with the GLY @ 8oz so I promise you will see it working in a few days.

I'm shooting for 3rd week of August - this is going to be fun!


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

MJR12284 said:


> Been following your renos as well @shadowlawnjutsu and @JerseyGreens. Looking forward to seeing your progress as well.
> 
> I'm on Day 3 after 1st round of Gly and am not seeing much browning going on...hoping that changes over the weekend. I'll do my 2nd round of Gly on Tuesday (1 week after 1st round). Plan to bring in some topsoil and do as much fallowing as I can before seed down date (planning last week in August, weather permitting).


That's normal. You won't see the browning right away. I started to see browning in my lawn after a week. And that's when it really shows the spots that I missed.


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## samzone7a (Jul 14, 2020)

This is great. I am not torching the lawn, but overseeding. great to see this journal. will start mine soon. right now i'm moving a sprinkler or two.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

We're 8 days out from the 1st round of gly and the lawn is looking CRISPY. Browning really started to kick in around Day 4 or so after application. I had planned to do my 2nd round of gly last night, but Tropical Storm Isaias had other plans. We got hit pretty hard in my neighborhood and lots of huge branches came down in my yard. I started clearing them out tonight but it will be a full weekend project to clean it all up. I'll likely scalp this weekend and then do my 2nd round of gly. They say every reno has its own share of bumps and bruises and I'm hoping this is the only hurdle I'll have to clear. I'm just glad this didn't happen after seed down. Ive also got my sprinkler company coming out next Wednesday to install our new system. As soon as irrigation is installed then I'll have topsoil deliver and plan to fallow for 2 weeks before seed down in last week of August. Lots of work to do and cutting it close so need timing to work out perfectly from here on out.

Ps. Is it possible to have two domination lines WITHIN your own yard?! 😂


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

Looking good! Try to dethatch earlier. Some tiny grass are just living underneath the dead grass. After I dethatch, that's when I see more baby grass/weeds starts popping out.

Last night's storm was so bad, my backyard is a mess!


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## e92M3 (Jul 13, 2020)

Good luck on your reno; I'm on my my second app of Gly on mine too. Let's hope for the best.

I sent you a PM by-the-way re: questions about seed mix, I hope you get as I'm newly registered here.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

e92M3 said:


> Good luck on your reno; I'm on my my second app of Gly on mine too. Let's hope for the best.
> 
> I sent you a PM by-the-way re: questions about seed mix, I hope you get as I'm newly registered here.


Thanks @e92M3! Are you planning to do a journal? Would love to follow along. @JerseyGreens and @shadowlawnjutsu and @OnTheLawn are on just about the same timeline as us and so I have following their journals for tips and advice. Did you get my reply message?


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Lots to update here since my last post. I spent most of last weekend cleaning up from TS Isaias. Had planned to do my 2nd round of gly on Tuesday, August 4 but with the storm and the next couple days being wet and having to cleanup I could not get to it until this past Sunday. I don't think it matters much because the lawn is completely dead now. D. E. A. D. Dead. Lol.

This past week we had landscaping installed along the back fence of our backyard. Pics below. Looking forward to seeing everything come to life and grow.

We also had a new irrigation system installed through a local sprinkler company. They completed the job in 4 hours. We got about 30 heads and 9 zones for the whole yard. System looks legit and I'm excited to have a fully functioning and properly installed irrigation system. The prior owners had two sprinkler systems set up off the spigots in my front and backyard and no back flow preventer or anything. About 8 guys working the job and 1 guy riding a trenching machine which tore up the lawn pretty good. The good news is that the machine tracks helped flatten out some of the bumps in my reno section. I am not so worried about any of compaction issues, but we will see. What would y'all recommend if I needed to address that?

I now need to spend some time getting the sprinklers dialed in and figuring out how much water is being put down on the lawn. We've been eating a lot of tuna fish lately to collect those tuna cans....

Today, I scalped the yard again and at the suggestion of @OnTheLawn I bought this detaching blade that installed pretty easily on my Toro Recycler. I have to say it did a pretty good job of scraping up the dead grass. I did 2 passes in opposite directions and then went over it again with the bagger on to collect all the clippings etc. I didn't use the bag for the first two passes since I was basically filling it up every other stripe. Of course, nothing is easy so of course I spent 1 hr removing this giant rock that was about 2 feet deep into the soil. From what was showing above ground it didn't look that big. I was wrong.

Tomorrow, I am spreading 12 yards of topsoil. Thankfully have the help of the landscaping guys who were here earlier this week. Asked them if they wanted to make some extra cash and they are game. I'm glad they are. I couldn't handle 12 yards by myself in one day. Below are pics of what the lawn looks like now.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Rain all day in the forecast here for me in North Jersey. Was planning to spread topsoil today but am pushing that back until tomorrow. I will go out later today and do some rolling with the lawn roller while the ground is soft from the rain. I think that will help spreading the topsoil tomorrow. There are lots of bumps that I want to smooth out.


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## billw (Jul 19, 2020)

Hey saw you replied to my reno thread, lots of new turf stands going down in Jersey on this forum! Looks like we are on the same timeframe, I'm still debating topsoil. Fortunately the soil/mulch place by me will deliver same day as order.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Yesterday, with the help of 2 workers from the landscaping company that installed our new landscaping last week, I spread about 10 yards of topsoil about 1-2 inches thick across my 4,200 reno area. We finished in about 5 hours. Definitely a ton of hard *** work but I'm glad I did it since one of the main reasons I did this reno was to level out my extemely bumpy lawn. The rain last night also came at the perfect time as it helped pack down the topsoil we just spread and also helped bring some of the small pebbles/rocks to surface (or at least helped clean them off to expose them to the naked eye). Surprisingly there was no puddles of water even though my reno area is slightly on a hill. I'll spend some time this week with my Level Lawn rake and will also be using the roller to get it more smooth. Starting tomorrow I'll be watering 3x day to fallow the new topsoil.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Spent the past two evenings working on leveling with my Level Lawn and the lawn roller. I also raked up all the small rocks and dirt clumps. I first raked approximately 8 foot sections into lines and them raked what collected into smaller piles which I'll pick up this weekend. We got some decent rain since I put the topsoil down on Monday so the ground is still quite wet. This is great for sections that get decent sunlight during the day since they have dried out a bit but other sections are complete mud. I have held off on watering for the past 2 days to help things dry out a bit. I'm going to resume watering this Saturday and do so 3x day for 10 minutes each.


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## billw (Jul 19, 2020)

MJR12284 said:


> I picked up a Scott's 20 in. reel mower today off FB Marketplace for $25 -- good deal. Will use the reel on the reno.
> 
> I also bought gly this weekend and will do a first application tomorrow evening at 8oz/Gal per 1k rate and mix in AMS at 1 TBSp/Gal rate.


I see a lot of people using reel mowers on renovations. Any reason for this? Is it less harsh on the grass blades?

By the way, Bridgewater HD has a Peat Moss spreader, only one I could find in North Jersey. It was rented this weekend when I called. I just used an aluminum landscape rake to spread it.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

billw said:


> I see a lot of people using reel mowers on renovations. Any reason for this? Is it less harsh on the grass blades?


Motorized mower is heavy and can damage new gras when you turn. Manual reel mower is lighter and easier to turn without damaging the grass. You can even lift it to prevent damage when turning.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> billw said:
> 
> 
> > I see a lot of people using reel mowers on renovations. Any reason for this? Is it less harsh on the grass blades?
> ...


What he said! Lol. If you can get one for cheap I'd say it's worth it. Plus it is kind of fun!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Been fallowing for about 2 weeks now and have a decent amount of small weeds popping up. I plan to gly them tomorrow morning (Saturday) and then seed down on Sunday. Hoping these crazy rain storms hold off for the next 10 days or so! Wish me luck!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

I got burned by the hurricane. It should be done by end of weekend. You'll be all set.

I'm planning my re-seed Sunday. Supposed to be milder temps too, so less watering.

Good luck!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

bf7 said:


> I got burned by the hurricane. It should be done by end of weekend. You'll be all set.
> 
> I'm planning my re-seed Sunday. Supposed to be milder temps too, so less watering.
> 
> Good luck!


Thanks! I've been on 3 or 4 different weather apps the past couple days stressing! I'm seeing some rain this coming Tuesday but doesn't look like a major storm. Fingers crossed!


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

MJR12284 said:


> bf7 said:
> 
> 
> > I got burned by the hurricane. It should be done by end of weekend. You'll be all set.
> ...


Putting the seed down while seeing rain in the forecast is a gamble. When I put the seed down, I saw a forecast of rain the next day. It did rain but it's not that heavy. It's just a drizzle all around. I think I just got lucky. I also try to rely on the radar. If I can see a heavy rain build up around the area, I'd be worried.

Good luck!


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## bf7 (May 11, 2020)

It's not worth stressing over the forecasts. They are so unreliable with regard to precipitation. Regular rain is great for seed. T-storms, usually not good.

Just get that seed down. The one guarantee is that it will get colder as the season progresses, and you need time for the babies to establish. If a t-storm pops up and you see damage, throw down some more.

You have TTTF in the mix so you have a little more leeway than us all KBG folks. But at the same time, I'm sure you don't want to end up with all TTTF rather than the mix you wanted. Get that KBG down.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

bf7 said:


> It's not worth stressing over the forecasts. They are so unreliable with regard to precipitation. Regular rain is great for seed. T-storms, usually not good.
> 
> Just get that seed down. The one guarantee is that it will get colder as the season progresses, and you need time for the babies to establish. If a t-storm pops up and you see damage, throw down some more.
> 
> You have TTTF in the mix so you have a little more leeway than us all KBG folks. But at the same time, I'm sure you don't want to end up with all TTTF rather than the mix you wanted. Get that KBG down.


You're absolutely right. Seed down tomorrow!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Final raking before SEED DOWN. Used my landscaper rake and Garden Weasel to loosen the top 1/2 inch of soil. After 2 weeks of fallowing the ground was pretty hard even though I've been watering and give the amount of rain we've gotten. Dang. That was hard work.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Seed is DOWN! Raked, rolled, Tenacity, and spread peat moss. Spread 32 lbs of seed over 5200 sq ft using the 6lb per 1k sq ft rate that was recommended to me by my seed supplier The Hogan Company. I did two crosses in opposite directions on low setting on my spreader to make sure even application. Battled some wind so some spots will be more bare than others. I used 7 bags of peat moss to cover it after spraying Tenacity.

Man it feels good to be done (for now)!

Obligatory post-reno beer pic here. 😃


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## gm560 (Feb 22, 2018)

@MJR12284 How's it looking. Any germination yet?


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## Zcape35 (Sep 17, 2019)

Congrats on seed down, time to finally (try to) relax and wait for some green babies.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

@gm560 I'm 4 DAS and no germ yet but hoping to see some sprouts this weekend!

Thanks @Zcape35!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

First, the good news: WE'VE GOT GREEN BABIES!!!

Now, the bad news: I am really hoping that gigantic bucket of water Mother Nature just dumped on us for 20 minutes won't affect any germ. Hopefully the seed is well enough bedded in the dirt and under the peat moss at 4 DAS that there won't be too much wash out. I have been loving the past couple nights of light steady rain but it just POURED here.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Major change over night as I woke up to see some nice green fuzz on DAS 5. It looks to be pretty even spread so I'm happy about that, as well as the fact it doesn't look like last night's flash rainstorm caused any major washout. There is a section (more like a river) where the rain flowed down my hill where I'll likely need to reseed but overall happy with the results so far. It's nice to see some green in the yard instead of all brown dirt for the past month!

I'll be counting tomorrow (DAS 6) as DAG 1.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

DAS 7/DAG 2.

Lookin' like lime green algae. Lol.

Some more great progress over the past 2 days. Happy with what looks to be some pretty even germ. I haven't walked the lawn yet but will do so tomorrow. There are 2 fairly large areas where there is very little germ. I attribute this to the heavy flash rain storm we got on Thursday (9/3). These two areas are also the most wet from too much sprinkler coverage and also get the least sun. I'll tweak the sprinklers tomorrow. I've included some close up pics of these areas here. I am probably going to throw down some more seed in these areas tomorrow.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

14DAS
9DAG

Really happy with the progress so far as I hit 2 weeks since seed down. I mowed today with my manual reel mower at 2 inch as most of the TTTF was at 2.5 or 3 inches and I won't have a chance to mow again until next weekend. I also am starting to see some tillering on a few grass blades. I've included a few "top-down" pics to give a sense of the density of the "average" areas. It looks great and nice and thick from far but less so when your standing on top of it. I'm going to assume it will fill in a lot once the grass starts tillering and the KBG starts spreading.

I'm planning to do my first Urea application at 21DAG.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

19DAS
14DAG

Mowed today at 2 inches. Definitely noticed more clippings and the grass is getting thicker. Even got some "reno stripes" showing up! 😃


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## BBLOCK (Jun 8, 2020)

looking really nice now!


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

This looks amazing! Great take on the first go around. Not even sure you'll need anymore seed. Job well done sir!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

BBLOCK said:


> looking really nice now!


Thanks @BBLOCK! Even the wife is happy with it so far!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> This looks amazing! Great take on the first go around. Not even sure you'll need anymore seed. Job well done sir!


Thanks @OnTheLawn! I agree. It is definitely not as thick as it looks from far away but I'm gonna let it fill in and thicken up itself without anymore seed. I think I'm too late to throw down any more seed anyway. I already reseed one section two weeks ago that had some washout and I'm gonna leave the rest. Let the N help thicken it up over the next month and a half or so here.


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## LawnBoy (Sep 30, 2018)

This is looking awesome. Your coverage is very consistent.


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## OnTheLawn (Jul 23, 2020)

If you're 15 DAG you're still waiting on some serious tillering from the TTTF and even more tillering/spreading from the KBG. It'll fill in for dang sure!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

OnTheLawn said:


> If you're 15 DAG you're still waiting on some serious tillering from the TTTF and even more tillering/spreading from the KBG. It'll fill in for dang sure!


Oh yes I am patiently waiting for all that to happen! I am so fortunate I escaped any major washout and the 80% TTTF really came in quick and helped establish the lawn. I can't wait to throw down some N next weekend!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

DAS 28
DAG 23

Yesterday, I mowed for the 3rd time at 2 inches. Lawn is getting thicker and I definitely violated the 1/3 Rule in some spots where the TTTF growth was out of control.

I am now watering twice per day. Once in the AM around 10:30 or so and once at 2:30 or so. I will probably switch the once per day very soon.

Today, I sprayed 0.25lb Urea with my backpack sprayer. I watered in immediately after spraying. I swear the lawn looked greener later in the day!

I am debating spraying some Propi. I have not seen any fungus pressure and the temps here recently have dropped overnights significantly and the days have gotten much cooler too.

Next decision I need to make is whether to spray Tenacity at 28 DAG. I have literally zero weeds in the lawn (which I am ecstatic about) and would like to keep it that way.

Would be interested in hearing your feedback on these questions. Thanks!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

DAS 33
DAG 28

4th mow at 2inches today. Lawn has really taken off since last week's initial spoon feeding. So much thicker than last week. This weekend I will do another 0.25lb of Urea. I am still debating doing an application of Propi and whether to do a second round of Tenacity.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

Applying propi is good for new seedlings and will prevent future fungus damage. I did applied propi at 24DAG will be applying probably tomorrow. The reason I would do another propi is because we might get a series of rain in the fall and that could bring fungus to the lawn. So that's just a precaution. I'm actually cycling between propi and azoxy (disease ex).

With regards to tenacity I reapplied tenacity I think it's around 28 DAG, but not at full rate and without surfactant. I applied 2.5 gallon rate (syringe) mixed with 3 gal of water. The first three days made me anxious because of the yellowing but the week after, all seedlings has recovered and does not show signs of yellowing. I would split tenacity from propi because you want your lawn to recover after spraying tenacity. Propi will slow down top growth that means you'll see the yellow blades for a while.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

DAS 34
DAG 29

Applied 0.25lb Urea today. Aiming to do preventative rate app of Propi tomorrow and then 2nd round of Tenacity later next week around DAG 35 or so. I see zero weed pressure in the lawn so far (fingers crossed).

Here's a great comparison between DAG 8 and DAG 28.


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

Do you water right after spraying Amonium sulfate?
I just sprayed 0.2 lbs/M of AMS a while ago. I'm thinking if I should water it or if I can wait overnight and water before sunrise at 5AM.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> Do you water right after spraying Amonium sulfate?
> I just sprayed 0.2 lbs/M of AMS a while ago. I'm thinking if I should water it or if I can wait overnight and water before sunrise at 5AM.


I've only been using Urea and have watered in with 15 minutes after spraying but have read that next morning is fine too. I was just (probably overly) nervous about any burn to the lawn.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

DAS 36
DAG 31

Sprayed Propi today at preventative rate of 1 oz. per 1k rate. Watered in immediately after.

I'm now down to watering once per day, which I started last week sometime. About 10-12 minutes per zone. I dropped down to watering twice per day around DAG 21 or so, and we've had some decent rain since then.

Aiming to do my 2nd round of Tenacity sometime this week.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

DAS 41
DAG 36

5th mow today and 1st one with my rotary mower. I felt the lawn was thick/strong enough for it. Lawn continues to improve both in terms of thickness and color. I'm loving this color right now. I also did my 3rd round of spoon feeding Urea at the 0.25lb rate. I wanted to mow today and so I did not want to also spray Tenacity. I will try to do so instead on Monday. I still have zero weed pressure in the lawn. I'm so glad I fallowed properly before seed down. I love how you can see my footprints in the grass!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

DAS 49
DAG 44

5th mow today. After some back and forth, and reviewing some other reno journals, I've decided to skip the 2nd Tenacity blanket app. I continue to have zero weed pressure so I don't see the benefit right now.

I will likely do my last spoon feeding tomorrow (will be my 4th overall for a total of 1lb N) as I want to allow the young grass to harden off before winter. Anyone disagree?

Also, is anyone doing anything to winterize their renos?


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## shadowlawnjutsu (Jun 9, 2020)

First of all great progress on your lawn. It looks so thick now and stripes are really visible.

I did the second app of tenacity. I feel like it's been effective as it slowed down the weed pressure. I think it killed most of the weeds I got from the straw I used to cover the seeds. But that was few weeks ago. I agree that you should skip it. The weather is starting to get colder and grass growth is slower. I see some poa annua in my lawn but I decided to kill it next spring when grass is actively growing.


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## PrisizhuhnRedNek (Sep 30, 2020)

MJR12284 said:


> DAS 49
> DAG 44
> 
> 5th mow today.
> ...


We are almost exactly on the same timeline and I'm also 80% tttf & 20% bluebank. My plan is to continue to push the N weekly until the top growth stops or somewhere around 50 soil temp which seems to probably be around the first week of November, or about 9 weeks since seed down. Currently I'm sitting at 2.1lbs total N since seed down and I've been doing between .25-.5lbs urea weekly. I think im going to miss any use of prodiamine since 60 days will be about Nov5th and soil should be rather cold by then. Going to focus on spring preM and knock out any weeds that made it through winter.

Your lawn looks great man! keep it up.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

shadowlawnjutsu said:


> First of all great progress on your lawn. It looks so thick now and stripes are really visible.
> 
> I did the second app of tenacity. I feel like it's been effective as it slowed down the weed pressure. I think it killed most of the weeds I got from the straw I used to cover the seeds. But that was few weeks ago. I agree that you should skip it. The weather is starting to get colder and grass growth is slower. I see some poa annua in my lawn but I decided to kill it next spring when grass is actively growing.


Thanks man! Your reno is looking great! At this point in my reno, based on weather conditions and time of year, I'll address next spring whatever weeds may pop up before then. Are you doing Prodiamine app this year?


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

PrisizhuhnRedNek said:


> MJR12284 said:
> 
> 
> > DAS 49
> ...


Appreciate it @PrisizhuhnRedNek, thank you!

Wow that is a lot of N (I think)! How many spoon feedings have you done so far? What was your seed down date? My main concern with continuing to push N is giving the grass enough time to harden off before winter. I can't remember which post I read it in, but I believe @ken-n-nancy gave a really good overview/explanation of this. Perhaps I am being too cautious, though since I am happy with the progress on my lawn, I don't want to do anything that I don't absolutely have to do. I plan to continue spoon feeding in the spring too based on recommended rates/duration before summer. Do you have a journal?


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## PrisizhuhnRedNek (Sep 30, 2020)

@MJR12284

I do not have a journal , lurked on here for awhile just recently signed up. My seed down date was sept 5 with ss1000 & bluebank

Since then I've done

Lbs. N. N/1k
Sept5 8.00%	6	0.5	0.2
sept 20 8.00%	17	1.4	0.65
sept 27 28.00%	1.8	0.5	0.24
October 5	28.00%	3.6	1.0	0.48
October 10	28.00%	1.9	0.5	0.25
October 18	28.00%	1.9	0.5	0.25

That didn't format correctly but the last number is lbs per 1k. So not counting the initial seedown and quick n burst 2 weeks after seed down , I've done 4 spoon feedings


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

MJR12284 said:


> ... My main concern with continuing to push N is giving the grass enough time to harden off before winter. I can't remember which post I read it in, but I believe @ken-n-nancy gave a really good overview/explanation of this.


I think this is the posting you are thinking of regarding stopping fertilization in the fall to allow time for the lawn to "harden off" before winter.



MJR12284 said:


> Perhaps I am being too cautious, though since I am happy with the progress on my lawn, I don't want to do anything that I don't absolutely have to do. I plan to continue spoon feeding in the spring too based on recommended rates/duration before summer.


As described in the referenced posting, I recommend stopping fall fertilization about 1 month (4 weeks) before the top growth of your grass will stop for the winter. This is consistent with the approach described in the Fall Nitrogen Blitz article.

Traditionally, there can also be one final application of quick-release nitrogen after top growth stops, which is described in the "*PS2*" section of the Fall Nitrogen Blitz article. I have made that final application in some years and skipped it in others. However, I've never applied it to just a portion of our lawn, so I don't have any "control group" to tell whether it helped or not. I have seen variation in spring time results in different years, but don't know whether to attribute that to the application (or not) of the final fall fertilizer, or due to winter severity differences. Maybe I'll try a "control area" of a partial application of it this year? Or, maybe not?

I think the most important part of the fall fertilization is what happens in the 6-12 weeks of fall while the grass is still actively growing, and whether or not one makes a final application of quick-release nitrogen after the top growth stops is a secondary factor.


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## ken-n-nancy (Jul 25, 2017)

@MJR12284, I just read back through your journal. You did a great job -- well done! The great job includes not only the work that you did on the lawn itself, but also your documenting of what you did in the journal. Very nice!

I think your new lawn looks fantastic and is a testimony to your hard work. Way to go!



MJR12284 said:


> I will likely do my last spoon feeding tomorrow (will be my 4th overall for a total of 1lb N) as I want to allow the young grass to harden off before winter. Anyone disagree?


You've done a good job with spraying the urea and watering it in afterwards. The grass has clearly responded well.

I have ZERO experience with TTTF, having never sown any in our lawn, although we've done northern mix (FF/PRG/KBG), FF/KBG, a KBG monostand, and a KBG duostand. Personally, with those experiences, I've found weekly fertilization with quick-release fertilizer and immediate watering in to work consistently well. KBG is a very hungry grass once it gets out of "sprout and pout" and again the next spring, so it responds very well to the regular fertilization, even up to 0.5#N/ksqft weekly. At that high rate of fertilization, however, it pays to keep an eye on how the grass responds to keep from overdoing it.

Personally, given what I think to be the case comparing your weather in New Jersey to ours in New Hampshire, I think you can quite safely do weekly light fertilization at least one week longer (until Oct 25th) and if you want to be a little more aggressive, a week after that (until Nov 1st) with weekly fertilization, presuming that top growth in your area probably normally stops around December 1st.

We fertilized our current renovation last week (Oct 16th) which is being fairly aggressive, as our lawn logs indicate that our lawn's top growth in sunny areas (this year's renovation is sunny) stops around Nov 20-26. I'll probably make one last fertilization this week, depending upon how much growth I see has taken place at our next scheduled mowing in two days.



MJR12284 said:


> Also, is anyone doing anything to winterize their renos?


For me, three things, although most of these relate to snow mold avoidance, which may be a complete non-issue for you in New Jersey, as snow mold is usually only a problem with 45+ days of continuous snow cover:

Stop all fertilization four weeks before expected stoppage of top growth, to allow grass to "harden off" naturally. (To reduce winterkill due to desiccation, winterkill due to direct low-temperature kill, and snow mold)
Mow the grass low for the final cut. Since I'm already mowing the renovation at 1.5" (reel low for me -- our summer height of cut has always been 3.75" in the past, although I tried 3.25" this year and think that may have been better), I'll just leave it there. However, we'll bring our main lawn down to 2.25" gradually as top growth continues to slow down. (To reduce snow mold.)
Stop all significant potassium (K) fertilization after Labor Day. (To reduce snow mold.)

As an aside, the "winterizer" fertilizers marketed nationwide which include higher levels of potassium are actually contra-indicated in areas susceptible to snow mold. The research which led to their adoption was based upon warm-season grasses, for which potassium fertilization increases resistance to low-temperature kill. However, the increased potassium also increases snow mold susceptibility, which is more of an issue for us in snow-covered states than low-temperature kill.

(Low temperature kill is less of an issue for folks in the extreme northern states because the cool-season grasses can survive much lower temperatures in the first place, and the snow cover provides an insulating layer which actually keeps the grass from extreme low temperatures. The exception to that is the rare snow-free winter with bitter cold arctic winds -- in a winter like that both desiccation and extreme low-temperature kill (-25F) are a threat.)


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

@ken-n-nancy I very much appreciate your very thorough response and advice. Thank you! And thanks for reviewing my journal and your kind comments.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

DAS 51
DAG 46

4th spoon feeding of Urea at 0.25lb/1k rate. I haven't noticed much improvement since my last spoon feeding, to be honest. Weather is getting colder and we've had a lot of overcast days over the past week or so.


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## PrisizhuhnRedNek (Sep 30, 2020)

MJR12284 said:


> DAS 51
> DAG 46
> 
> 4th spoon feeding of Urea at 0.25lb/1k rate. I haven't noticed much improvement since my last spoon feeding, to be honest. Weather is getting colder and we've had a lot of overcast days over the past week or so.


Me either. We've had a few abnormally cold nights lately and also overcast skies. But today and about the next 4-5 days are prime time again with the sun and temps.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

DAS 56
DAG 51

Mowed today and used the leaf blower to clear the lawn of leaves. Also spoon fed Urea at 0.25lb per 1k rate. Likely my last Urea application of the year since my sprinklers are getting blown out tomorrow (unless I can get lucky with the rain and time it perfectly next weekend). I am pleased with the progress on the lawn.


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## Methodical (May 3, 2018)

That lawn is beautiful^^^. Unfortunately, the battle starts next spring when everything wants to eat/damage that beautiful lawn. :thumbup: They always go after the nice lawns and leave the crappy lawns alone. It's a battle.


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## Christian71 (Apr 26, 2020)

Looks awesome @MJR12284 !!! Great work and documentation!


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## Christian71 (Apr 26, 2020)

@MJR12284 do you plan on keeping your HOC at 2" with TTTF? I have a similar mix TTTF 80%/ PRG 10%/ KBG 10%. I was looking at getting into reel mowing next season but its pointless at anything over 2". Thanks!!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Thanks gents! @Methodical and @Christian71

I'll most likely bump up the HOC this coming summer but plan to play it by ear. If the TTTF can handle the 2 inch HOC throughout the summer then I will likely keep it there or at 2.5 inch. WIth our new irrigation system it might be able to handle 2.0-2.5 inch HOC. I do not plan to reel mow and have a very energetic dog so I feel like I need to keep it a bit longer. What are you planning to do? What is your HOC now? Looks a bit higher than mine (and looks goods too).


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## UMStevo (Aug 25, 2020)

That lawn looks Amazing! Good work!

Your lawn has a very similar look to my TTTF/Mazama mix, but I'm guessing yours was a much better value. Seriosly, very beautiful.


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## Christian71 (Apr 26, 2020)

Thanks @MJR12284!

I'm going to stick with rotary mower for now and to start spring 2021. I am at 3.25 hoc and kinda like it there. I'll probably go to 2.75 or so for last cut this season and see what's up in the spring.

I would love to reel mow the front but just can't see bringing the TTTF down to less than 2". I don't really see anyone on here reel mowing TTTF. Hopefully nobody proves me wrong cuz I don't really want to drop 2k+ on a mower. Lol.

Happy Halloween!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

DAS 69
DAG 64

Mowed today after not being able to do so last weekend due to rain. Not much growth even after some decent rain and warm temps here in Northern NJ. No more Urea apps this year. Sprinkler system got blown out last week. Maybe 2-3 more mows left this year and mainly to chop up the leaves.


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Needed to post this just to remind myself of what the lawn looks like when it's not covered with leaves!!! Argh!


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## Pezking7p (May 23, 2020)

Wowsers. That is a beautiful reno. The color and uniformity is outstanding. Nice job.


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## jskierko (Sep 5, 2020)

Pezking7p said:


> Wowsers. That is a beautiful reno. The color and uniformity is outstanding. Nice job.


+1, looks awesome!


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## MJR12284 (Jun 21, 2020)

Thanks gents! @Pezking7p @jskierko High praise coming from you guys with your beautiful lawns!


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