# Poa control plan



## CLT49er (Jun 19, 2020)

My father in NE Ohio renovated and seeded his yard Sept 2020 with TTTF barenburg. Fescue is strong and healthy. He is loaded with poa annua. Whats the plan to rid or cut back the poa? Overseed wont be needed this fall.

Pre-emergent: full rate app in August? Or split apps, Aug/oct? Split apps in spring?

Whats the herbicide he can use next spring and summer that is safe for TTTF.

Thanks! I am a bermuda guy so I am out of my scope here.


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## cleohioturf (Jul 20, 2020)

its rampant in this area, thrives in our conditions. No real herbicide other than glypho that is really good at just knocking the poa without harming the preferred, in my opinion.

I am going with a more cultural approach, less inputs with watering, let the grass stress, hopefully the poa variants struggle, then get coverage to fill those spots. Obviously TTTF wont spread so would need some interseeding.

Personally, I applied pre em in March at a 4 months rate, now I am due in July, I will go 6 month app on that.

Golf courses around here keep poa annua alive and well, if that gives you an indicator on how rampant it is.


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

cleohioturf said:


> its rampant in this area, thrives in our conditions. No real herbicide other than glypho that is really good at just knocking the poa without harming the preferred, in my opinion.


TTTF in Charlotte here. In NC, the summer heat kills pretty much all of it. Starts dying out late May here. I don't see anything survive my irrigated lawn into June, and gly for Poa A here would be overkill.

Overall, prodiamine is the better defense, but if you apply in fall you can't seed. If you need to seed, Tenacity will maybe control 90% of the Poa A, and with successive years of Tenacity + overseeding will minimize the Poa A density.

Assess the thickness of turf in Aug/Sep when you would overseed. Your options:
a) If the TTTF stand looks good end of Aug, apply 3mo rate of prodiamine, and then maybe another 3mo for Dec-Feb (second app not needed, but we get growing days through mid Dec, and a fluke few days in Jan/Feb sometimes)
b) If you need to seed, spray tenacity blanket the day you lay seed down, and again at the 30mo mark. Apply prodiamine at the 3mo rate +2mo from seeding.

If you have just some spots to seed, spray prodiamine skipping those spots, and then seed+tenacity in the bare spots (essentially following plan B just for the bare spots). The bare spots are where Poa A would typically thrive next April.

You could flip the norm and prodiamine everything in the Fall, and overseed in early spring (maybe a dormant seed in mid-Feb) with tenacity, and then get spring prodiamine down around April, and spot spray quinclorac in the summer if you have any crabgrass. This would be a stronger defense, but suffer on the seeding plan while still giving you an option to get some down.

Whatever is left in March/April that you see, walk around and hand pull it before it seeds. That will minimize next year's issue reducing the seed bed that could germinate in the fall.

Oh and you can also apply a post-em Poa Constrictor. It is fairly expensive. You would apply around Thanksgiving and again around Christmas since the plants should have germinated by then just hard to spot. You could then maybe use a third app of it in Spring (check label, not sure that exceeds yearly max) on anything that makes it through as some germination will occur in spring instead of fal. But controlling before using post-em is preferred over this and this approach probably isn't needed. Note that Tenacity will not control Poa A as a post-em, at least not on the label, but a few (3?) lighter doses does seem to hamper it and potentially prevent it from being able to seed, in my experience if you need some post-em and don't want to shell out $ for PoaConstrictor.


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## Old Hickory (Aug 19, 2019)

@stevehollx What prodiamine do you use/recommend?


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## LawnMavrik (Sep 22, 2020)

stevehollx said:


> cleohioturf said:
> 
> 
> > its rampant in this area, thrives in our conditions. No real herbicide other than glypho that is really good at just knocking the poa without harming the preferred, in my opinion.
> ...


To follow on, does the Tenacity need to be watered in when doing the blanket spray and overseed?


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

LawnMavrik said:


> To follow on, does the Tenacity need to be watered in when doing the blanket spray and overseed?


No. But your seed will need to be watered in. ;-)


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## stevehollx (Apr 8, 2020)

Old Hickory said:


> @stevehollx What prodiamine do you use/recommend?


https://www.domyown.com/prodiamine-65-wdg-generic-barricade-p-2495.html
…But any prodiamine WDG into a backpack sprayer will be fine. Some vendors have a smaller package.


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## LawnMavrik (Sep 22, 2020)

stevehollx said:


> LawnMavrik said:
> 
> 
> > To follow on, does the Tenacity need to be watered in when doing the blanket spray and overseed?
> ...


Best of both worlds I guess! Thanks.


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## sam (Mar 10, 2018)

Thank you for the good advice.

One point though, I thought tenacity can't be done 30 days after seeding - I thought it's when your seedlings are 30 days after germination or 2nd mow whichever comes later


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## Nikegolf1224 (Apr 21, 2021)

When do pre emergent apps start for poa annua in the fall? Going to get some scotts halts instead of overseeding this year


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## M32075 (May 9, 2019)

Nikegolf1224 said:


> When do pre emergent apps start for poa annua in the fall? Going to get some scotts halts instead of overseeding this year


Scotts halts needs two applications. Second one should be about 7 to 8 weeks after the first one for full coverage. When the soil hits around 70 degrees drop your first application


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

Tennacity is mediocre on poa as a pre emergent at best. It's definitely not the magic bullet. Prodiamine in early august is the only site fire way to break the cycle- no fall seeding. Eastern NC has a had a bad few poa years ( my opinion). I am going the ethofusemate and tennacity route. I plan to overseed. Good luck!!!!


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## Nikegolf1224 (Apr 21, 2021)

Bigdrumnc said:


> Tennacity is mediocre on poa as a pre emergent at best. It's definitely not the magic bullet. Prodiamine in early august is the only site fire way to break the cycle- no fall seeding. Eastern NC has a had a bad few poa years ( my opinion). I am going the ethofusemate and tennacity route. I plan to overseed. Good luck!!!!


Will prodiamine kill bent grass too. I got some parches near my ditch. One of the reason i liek the scotts halts because I believe it kills bentgrass too


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## Bombers (Jul 14, 2020)

Scotts halts AI is just Pendimethalin. I would get it in liquid form and stack with prodiamine or do prodiamine and follow up with Pendimethalin 6-8 weeks later. HD and Lowe's carries it now with the Ike's brand. Pretty cheap too.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Bigdrumnc said:


> Tennacity is mediocre on poa as a pre emergent at best. It's definitely not the magic bullet. Prodiamine in early august is the only site fire way to break the cycle- no fall seeding. Eastern NC has a had a bad few poa years ( my opinion). I am going the ethofusemate and tennacity route. I plan to overseed. Good luck!!!!


Not sure this is entirely true. Why would you have to do do prodamine in August if POA doesn't germinate until the spring? I mean you can seed, use tenacity x 2 apps then put prodamine down which would be late Sep/Early Oct depending on when you actually seeded. Hell you can put prodamine down as long as the soil isn't frozen IIRC. I also read that POA germinates when the soil temps are 70 or above, so again why must it be done in August without seeding?


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

Poa germinates in august. You may not think so but it does. Come mid to late jan you can start to see brighter hues of lime, then feb wait for it….more. Full throttle by March. At least that's how it goes in my small fish bowl in eastern nc. As for prodiamine….if you are breaking the cycle….apply in august and again in feb.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

I guess if you don't have a real winter POA and germination would be different.


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## Lawn Whisperer (Feb 15, 2021)

1028mountain said:


> I guess if you don't have a real winter POA and germination would be different.


"Poa annua is a winter annual that germinates in the late summer/early fall once soil temperatures fall below 70F. Seedlings mature in the fall, overwinter in a vegetative state, and flower and produce seed in late spring and early summer."

https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ay/ay-41-w.pdf


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## tgreen (Oct 20, 2018)

Bigdrumnc said:


> Poa germinates in august. You may not think so but it does. Come mid to late jan you can start to see brighter hues of lime, then feb wait for it….more. Full throttle by March. At least that's how it goes in my small fish bowl in eastern nc. As for prodiamine….if you are breaking the cycle….apply in august and again in feb.


^ +1 good advice


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Ok so my point still stands. If you were to seed and use tenacity then prodamine after tenacity wouldn't that be the same as using prodamine and not seeding at all?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@1028mountain this is in the cool season guide. It mimics the Purdue article that @Lawn Whisperer posted above. Read the guide to help answer your questions.



> Poa annua is a weed that grows and develops in the fall. It also survives the winter and it shows up in the spring. The best way to handle it is with a PreM application in early fall (~August). The further south you are, then more you want to do a split application and extend the protection further into winter.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

That doesn't answer my question.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

1028mountain said:


> Ok so my point still stands. If you were to seed and use tenacity then prodamine after tenacity wouldn't that be the same as using prodamine and not seeding at all?


What is your point?

And no. If you were to seed and use tenacity then prodiamine; it would not be the same as just using prodiamine and not seeding.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Point question whatever.

Does tenacity not stop poa a germination if you use it while seeding?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

1028mountain said:


> Point question whatever.
> 
> Does tenacity not stop poa a germination if you use it while seeding?


You edited your post.

I don't know what your point is.

The tenacity label in page 9 has a list of the weeds it controls/suppress via pre emergent and post emergent applications.


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

I have never been able to time it right.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

g-man said:


> 1028mountain said:
> 
> 
> > Point question whatever.
> ...


FFS dude give it a rest. If you don't want to answer the question then don't answer it. I have tenacity but it's downstairs and I have no interest in going downstairs to read it. And last time I checked this was the lawn forum in a thread about POA A prevention but god forbid anyone ask a question that can be answered by reading a label. Hell why even have a forum then if everyone can just read labels.


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

Easy answer- no tenacity will not prevent poa even if applied at seeding. At best it may knock it back a little. To fight an infestation "battle" apply etho after seeding along with tenacity. The prevent poa-break the cycle apply prodiamine in august. Keep chemical blanket on the lawn year round. Tenacity alone is not a magic bullet. In my opinion it just makes your yard look splotchy and look like crap in general. My personal experience if you repeatedly treat poa with it, by the time it's really hurt….you have hurt your turf as well. By the time you actually do something to the poa chances are it would have burned out from the heat any way. Best of luck.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

@Bigdrumnc in my experience and doing no-prem in the fall outside of Tenacity x 2 after a total reno and fall overseeding I get POA in the spring. Not a lot but enough that I pull all of it and its pain in the ***.

Unfortunately for me it seems like I have to overseed every year due to TTTF die off so POA is just expected. I would love to get to a point where I didn't need to overseed but have yet to do so.

'etho aster?' What is that exactly?


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

Ethofusemate sp? Aka progress. Poa has hit me and my area hard the last year. Prime conditions, lol too much to pull by hand.


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## Bigdrumnc (Mar 28, 2019)

1028mountain said:


> @Bigdrumnc in my experience and doing no-prem in the fall outside of Tenacity x 2 after a total reno and fall overseeding I get POA in the spring. Not a lot but enough that I pull all of it and its pain in the @ss.
> 
> Unfortunately for me it seems like I have to overseed every year due to TTTF die off so POA is just expected. I would love to get to a point where I didn't need to overseed but have yet to do so.
> 
> 'etho aster?' What is that exactly?


*should have been etho after seeding , my bad I just noticed my typo.


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## Spartazoo (May 20, 2020)

I also have a huge POA outbreak this year. I am seriously considering scalping it off, spraying roundup, and starting over on September 1st. My yard was originally seeded 20+ years ago with a KBG, Rye, Fescue mix. I really like the newer elite 50/50 KBG/Rye blends. We renovated our HS baseball field in fall 2020 with Earth Carpet's 50/50 blend and it is gorgeous! I am in the decision process now.

My wife and many friends think I am certified nuts if I do it. Everyone else thinks the grass is awesome. I cannot stand the spots of light green. They don't even notice it.


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Spartazoo said:


> I also have a huge POA outbreak this year. I am seriously considering scalping it off, spraying roundup, and starting over on September 1st. My yard was originally seeded 20+ years ago with a KBG, Rye, Fescue mix. I really like the newer elite 50/50 KBG/Rye blends. We renovated our HS baseball field in fall 2020 with Earth Carpet's 50/50 blend and it is gorgeous! I am in the decision process now.
> 
> My wife and many friends think I am certified nuts if I do it. Everyone else thinks the grass is awesome. I cannot stand the spots of light green. They don't even notice it.


With Michigan weather, I would not wait too much to start spraying round up. You can skip the scalping, but ideally you want seed down by 01Aug instead of 01Sep with KBG.


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## Spartazoo (May 20, 2020)

g-man said:


> Spartazoo said:
> 
> 
> > I also have a huge POA outbreak this year. I am seriously considering scalping it off, spraying roundup, and starting over on September 1st. My yard was originally seeded 20+ years ago with a KBG, Rye, Fescue mix. I really like the newer elite 50/50 KBG/Rye blends. We renovated our HS baseball field in fall 2020 with Earth Carpet's 50/50 blend and it is gorgeous! I am in the decision process now.
> ...


Thanks for the heads up... I know I am pushing time, but can't talk myself into pulling the trigger. LOL but I hate the light green.


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## sam (Mar 10, 2018)

1028mountain said:


> @Bigdrumnc in my experience and doing no-prem in the fall outside of Tenacity x 2 after a total reno and fall overseeding I get POA in the spring. Not a lot but enough that I pull all of it and its pain in the @ss.
> 
> Unfortunately for me it seems like I have to overseed every year due to TTTF die off so POA is just expected. I would love to get to a point where I didn't need to overseed but have yet to do so.
> 
> 'etho aster?' What is that exactly?


My experience in the mid Atlantic is the same as yours. TTTF's only game is retreat, then overseed. And tenacity is limited effectiveness on Poa A

I'm 10 months into adding in hybrid bluegrass (SPF30) and so far so good. I'm hoping to have my first fall without a complete overseed.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

sam said:


> 1028mountain said:
> 
> 
> > @Bigdrumnc in my experience and doing no-prem in the fall outside of Tenacity x 2 after a total reno and fall overseeding I get POA in the spring. Not a lot but enough that I pull all of it and its pain in the @ss.
> ...


Yeah pretty much. Pain in the *** if you ask me. I have added some KBG to the mix last spring but not sure how much survived the heat we've had even with irrigation.

Going to overseed with the same Newsom 90/10 TTTF/KBG mix soon and see how it goes.


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## 1028mountain (Oct 1, 2019)

Bigdrumnc said:


> Easy answer- no tenacity will not prevent poa even if applied at seeding. At best it may knock it back a little. To fight an infestation "battle" apply etho after seeding along with tenacity. The prevent poa-break the cycle apply prodiamine in august. Keep chemical blanket on the lawn year round. Tenacity alone is not a magic bullet. In my opinion it just makes your yard look splotchy and look like crap in general. My personal experience if you repeatedly treat poa with it, by the time it's really hurt….you have hurt your turf as well. By the time you actually do something to the poa chances are it would have burned out from the heat any way. Best of luck.


@Bigdrumnc Taking your advice and doing pre-m within the next week. I have POA C as well and will be applying that on top of my pre-m application. Skipping fall over seed as my lawn is mostly thick with only a couple trouble areas that I can just avoid pre-m and reseed by hand.


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## JERSEY (Sep 9, 2018)

g-man said:


> @1028mountain this is in the cool season guide. It mimics the Purdue article that @Lawn Whisperer posted above. Read the guide to help answer your questions.
> 
> 
> 
> > Poa annua is a weed that grows and develops in the fall. It also survives the winter and it shows up in the spring. The best way to handle it is with a PreM application in early fall (~August). The further south you are, then more you want to do a split application and extend the protection further into winter.


----

This is all you need to know......Gman...and others have given the only control known, other than digging out the poa in the spring...

This is an issue if your turf is thin after summer. You have to decide which way you want to go. If you have KBG, the plan of attack is Prodiamine in early aug....(soon) and plan on doing a Nitro bomb ..or Nitro blitz....and force the kbg to spread....and it will! 3-4lbs of N from sept 1---till it stops growing... Opinions vary, but I know what works for me Here.

other draw back to prodiamine is root pruning effect, but its just something you have to deal with.

thats why people say it takes Years to get the turf right.

I have some poa, and I plan on spraying prodiamine soon...and doing a nitro blitz. You can also ignore the poa if its not widespread, as it fades off in june. I dont have huge widespread poa, but it do have plenty.

there are no easy answers.

If you want to overseed and use tenacity, go for it. I find tenacity is not effective. make a plan, and go forward.


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## gorgedude (Jul 5, 2020)

My Poa A removal plan: 
Spring: Physically removing plants and spot spraying glyphosate. Reseeding sprayed areas.
Summer: Reduced irrigation and allowing the lawn to go dormant. This is too ensure the plants do not survive through the winter. Or lease that's the plan.
Late Summer: use Scott's halts once the soil temp reaches 70°.


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