# Iron/Manganese combo without Nitrogen



## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

Today lawn supplier warned me against using nitrogen containing fertilizers until March ( I live in Florida). He strongly suggested an Iron as well as Manganese treatment. I researching product I found that the majority contained nitrogen. My questions are:

1. Are there good combo products with solely Manganese and Iron (liquid)?
2. If I buy separate Manganese and Iron is it fair to assume I can just mix them?
3. Several iron products warn about staining concrete. I have a walkway of coquina (shell stone). My wife would kill me if I turned it orange brown (now white). How can I be careful with a backpack pump spray?


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## Tjstampa (Nov 16, 2020)

Home Depot here in Pinellas has an iron and magnesium product that they sell here in the summer made by Sunnyland. No nitrogen is allowed to be applied from a June 1 until September 30 so it does not leach into the bay. Also if you sweep it off the sidewalk before you water it in it it should not stain the sidewalk


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

You could use this. 16 oz in 2+ gallons of water applied per 1000 sq ft.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

Thank you both!
He told me liquid iron but I did not clarify with him whether the manganese was to be liquid or solid. I like both these ideas

Bill

To clarify on "16 ounces"

Does one weigh the granules or just a 16 ounce measuring cup?


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

Liquid products are always measured by volume. 16 oz is 2 cups or 1 pint.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

Thank you. My bad I thought it was granules!

Looks like iron 1% and manganese 2.5%

The other product mentioned is granular.

The iron content is much higher. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sunniland-20-lb-Super-Iron-Plus-Fertilizer-224115/202595542

I do not think I understand the pluses and minuses of liquid vs solid and what the rate of iron should be.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

The rate of iron depends upon the availability of the iron. Liquid chelated iron is highly available to the plant across a wide range of pH values. Granular iron said to be less available to the plant, so you have to provide a lot more of it to get the same uptake.

Did you get a soil test done? I wouldn't go crazy with micronutrients unless you have a confirmed deficiency.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

I did not get soil test. My turf grower told me to keep my grass green between December to March to add iron and manganese. The grass is new and I have been struggling with dollar spot that I successfully treated and a lighter green than I started with. Willing to get soil test.
What are the steps (if you don't mind).


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

There's a bunch of labs that do it. Cheapest will be via IFAS extension. It involves taking a number of samples from around the yard, mixing them together, drying, and then sending to lab. In general, soil testing is best when you haven't been applying products to the yard for about 6 to 8 weeks. A lot of people will do it in January for that reason.

You can apply either of those products without a soil test, but liquid is going to be safer and probably more effective unless your soil is deficient.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

So If I do this empirically ie "try and see" as opposed to scientifically....
How much liquid chelated iron and how much manganese would I use?


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

16 oz of the southern ag palm nutritional per 1000 sq. Ft. You can use a hose end sprayer with a setting of no more than 8oz per gallon.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

Again I thank you
So I assume 1% iron is good enough! 
Your feedback is appreciated

Bill

Bear with me: On do your own the liquid iron is 5% with same directions ie 16 ounces per 1000 sq feet. In the picture it says 1%.
So being a novice/amateur I'm confused!?


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

Yeah, they are different products. The palm nutritional is a maintenance product. The 5% is for correcting an iron deficiency.

The palm nutritional is probably available at your local Home Depot.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

Could you please post a link to the product you see that has the 5%?


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

5% iron https://www.domyown.com/southern-ag-chelated-liquid-iron-p-2101.html

Palm nutritional https://www.domyown.com/southern-ag-palm-nutritional-spray-p-8944.html


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

Thank you.

So if I use product number 1 it has a lot of iron but no manganese.
if i use product number 2 it has much less iron 1% but has manganese.

Should I use both to get adequate iron/manganese or do you think #2
is enough


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

I think there's enough iron in the palm nutritional. If you are concerned, you could use MicroGreene which has a different balance and is specifically labeled for turf.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

Thank you for this information and your patience.

Bill


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

@William13 if the lawn is growing (not dormant), it will need some nitrogen.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

Thank you G-man.

I did not question my grower when he told me to avoid nitrogen or I could get brown patch at this point in time. I am in west palm beach and he is nearby and he is the developer of the grass diamond zoysia dwarf. Is this a controversial topic in the world of fertilizers? I mean are there groups of people who believe both ways?


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

Adding nitrogen to zoysia at this time of year will make it even more susceptible to large patch disease. Doing so will put you into a high maintenance category, meaning that you would likely want to be on a preventive fungicide program for _at least_ a month prior to adding the nitrogen. Furthermore, pushing any foliar growth is likely to exacerbate any micronutrient (e.g. iron) deficiency, resulting in even more color problems.

My point is that you are "fighting the tide" at this time of year because zoysia is a warm season grass; it's in a vulnerable state right now and the color should probably be your last concern. You can get some turf paint/dye and just spray the grass if you really want to darken the color up without risking a cascade of problems and uncertainty.

To be clear, a micronutrient app such as the ones listed above are not "silver bullets." Their efficacy on improving turf appearance is inconsistent, with or without nitrogen.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

Actually the mistake I made is not wanting a better colored grass. My mistake was thinking a better colored grass would be more immune to diseases. I equated "better color" to "healthier". Now I am realizing this is not the case. I just want to get ahead of the fungus issue I seem to keep on getting. My plan is Eagle alternating with Cleary every two weeks. Right now I think I am in a curative stage of things and I would like to get to a preventative stage. I thought micronutrients would reduce susceptability. No! I do not want to paint my grass. Is there such a thing? I will go with Christmas lights. PS I viewed your "Lawn Journal". That was a lot of documentation. Really liked it.

Bill

Addendum: This is what my grower uses "for what it's worth"

https://www.keyplex.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/KeyPlex-350DP.pdf


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm not a warm season lawn guy. But, a lawn is a living thing that needs food to live. Yes, if it is dormant, then it doesnt need nitrogen, but if it growing, I struggle to think it can be without nitrogen for 4 month. Maybe someone with more experience with zoysia can chime in. @Greendoc ?


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

This is the first time I am getting involved with care of warm season grass. Up until a few months ago I hired professionals. I think I hired the wrong ones because I had to have my whole yard replaced 3 x over the last 10-15 years. So I decided I was going to take it on myself. It make sense not to treat dormant grass with N2 and to treat normally growing grass with N2. Right now the grass down here is growing but its growing slowly. Hence the confusion on how exactly to proceed. My grower told me a little is ok (N2) but I don't know what that even means so I read and participate in good forums with knowledgable people like this one.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

William13 said:


> My grower told me a little is ok (N2) but I don't know what that even means


I think "a little" would translate to less than .25lbs of N per 1000. The exact amount probably depends on the solubility of whatever you use. Personally I doubt there would be any benefit, but interested to hear from others with experience.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

The reason he said a "little was ok" was because I told him I was having trouble finding nitrogen free stuff. As you know I am trying to avoid Brown Patch at this time


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

William, maybe post some pictures to see what we are dealing with.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

I will send.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

@William13, 
I thought of you when I saw page 10 of https://secure.caes.uga.edu/extension/publications/files/pdf/B 984_4.PDF


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

Don't fire me when you see these!!


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

ionicatoms said:


> @William13,
> I thought of you when I saw page 10 of https://secure.caes.uga.edu/extension/publications/files/pdf/B 984_4.PDF


Dear Ionicatoms
Thank you so much for this "Lawn Calander" It is so comprehensive and I appreciate it. 
Bill


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

So I found this:
https://www.domyown.com/turfgrasspro-mn-combo-p-17275.html#gallery
It has 3% iron and 4% manganese. It is not in chelate form. I do totally realize I have not soil tested beyond knowing ph is 6.5 I have no true dx yet. I thought I would just try it per the zoysia growers advice and I would learn by observation. If I am going to experiment I want to use decent chemicals so I guess I am asking if this is a good product for those people who do test and who have deficiencies. The other thing I am questioning is if my gardener is using sharp blades. He says yes!


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

It looks like that product is chelated with citric acid. From what I understand, you'll need to make sure the pH of the final diluted solution remains below 6 while it's in the tank before being sprayed.

This is something I struggle with because my tap water has a "high" pH. I recently ordered citric acid to keep on hand so I can adjust the pH of my tank mixes.

Not sure what to do for a hose end sprayer.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

I use a sprayer for fungicides so I will use it for micronutrients if I decide to go that route. That was so estute to notice that it had citrate. Their other products mention when they are chelated but this product does not come right out and say it. I have no idea why. I posted pictures of the lawn. You can see why I have concern. Maybe painting was not a bad idea....(not serious about that comment). Curiosity what is your pH?


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

My tap water pH is 8.6.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

Wow! you maxed out on bicarb


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

Yeah, it's a bummer. Can't even use a tankless water heater without special precaution.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

g-man said:


> William, maybe post some pictures to see what we are dealing with.


Any thoughts on photos?


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## g-man (Jun 15, 2017)

Im not experienced with warm season lawns. We are in the low participation time of the year, so it will take a while to get more responses.

But, I don't see brown patch. Maybe it could be yellow patch (it might be called large patch on zoysia). But it could also be "baby it is cold outside". I would drop a bit of nitrogen in a small area and see if the lawn responds (turns green). That can rule out under fertilized.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

It happened before "its cold outside" my daughters favorite Christmas song. I googled yellow patch and maybe it looks like that. I wonder if my landscaper is just chopping it up with dull blades but he says no. I'm hitting it with Cleary and Eagle fungicides alternating q 2 weeks.
I also sent pictures to my local exhange but have not heard back yet.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

So after seeing my own photos posted on this forum I searched "images of "zoysia disease" and found a similar appearance on this website

http://blogs.ifas.ufl.edu/escambiaco/2017/08/08/sod-webworm-sightings-escambia-county/

So I went out and pushed and pulled on areas of thatch but could not find any worms. Then I read about 1 table spoon of dish soap per gallon of water and look again.

This is what I found in some but not all places:



So now I have a presumptive diagnosis. Perhaps its other things but I want to treat "tropical webworms". Would really love to hear from the experienced and non-experienced members of forum. Also I have a cool video of the worm popping out of the ground but I don't think this forum accepts videos.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

I used 24 hour grub killer plus + talstar to kill my webworms. See my journal for details.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

What page in your journal do you start talking about webworms?
I read alot about grub killer and talstar or "Bifen" but the reading keeps on aluding preparing for spring. Given its almost winter I know that Bifenthrin is indicated but is it too early for the grub killer stuff?


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

Around page 2.

The 24 hr product is made from dylox or trichlorfon. It is only for killing an outbreak. A so called knock down. Bifenthrin also kills worms, just not as fast.

GrubEx is a preventive control that is useless if your trying to kill an infestation.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

I've learned not to try to be funny on forems because people can take it the wrong way. Your Lawn Journal which you should be proud of, reflects your organized mind and communicative abilities. Honestly it looks more like a real medical record. In the year I have had my grass and I am not complaining I have had fungus, chinch, big white grubs, and now sod web worms and the question of deficiencies. What a learning curve. I plan to start with Bifen this week because thats what I have in the garage. Did you ever consider "Merit" as a choice (hope I did not miss this in your journal as I read it late last night).


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

BTW one of my "Key" confusions is what constitutes spring, summer, winter, fall in South Florida. You read about grub control and they talk about late summer and early fall and how treating in winter does not good because they have already fed and borrowed too deep.


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

I think Merit is popular. I haven't used it or researched it.

Grub population growth is probably determined by soil temperature. That's how i would try to delineate the seasons.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

It is about 70 degrees
Is that Fall?


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

I would say it is in Florida!


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

I was going to use pre-emergence. Are they safe and what do you think about potassium at this Florida time of the year?

Also there are a lot of places my lawn is thin from the sodworms if I do a pre-emergence would that keep it from thickening up?


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## ionicatoms (Mar 8, 2020)

I don't have any thoughts on potassium. Soil test is what is needed to determine supply in the soil.

Pre-emergent shouldn't impact sod webworm recovery unless they killed all the roots somehow.


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## William13 (Oct 24, 2020)

Got it! I will soil test


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