# Reel vs Rotary Experience - The story no one asked for



## Jub (Jun 10, 2019)

Hey gang, wanted to share my experience with rotary and reel mowing over the last year.

I moved into a home with very overgrown Zeon Zoysia in Raleigh NC last summer.



I immediately started lowering it with my rotary Honda push mower with the goal of getting it to roughly an inch with no visible stem as seen in the example (below) from the local SuperSod branch, at which point, I'd switch to a reel mower to maintain.



It looked really bad, as expected, during the lowering process. You could see the track marks from the "mow and go" operation that had been mowing it previously. This gave me an indication that the grass was healthier in the areas of compression from the wheels on their heavy mower.



I started experimenting with scalping as low as my mower would go in one area to see how it would respond (early August, for reference). I did two strips right by the street.



Roughly a week later, that strip grew back in better than I ever expected.



This gave me complete confirmation that I was on the right track and that I was going to have to go through a nasty yellow phase before getting it where I wanted it to be - but that it could definitely get there.

Once it was as low as my Honda would take it, I got a Swardman Edwin 2.0 from Reel Rollers and quickly went to work dethatching. I couldn't believe what came up the first pass.



At this point, I was well on my way and I started reel mowing. I was super pleased with the results.





(I should mention here that I spent a lot of time trying to figure out which real mower I should get. I consulted this forum and had a guy from a local equipment place come demo a John Deere greens mower. Of course, that cut was very good but I felt like it was pretty hard to turn and I would have a hard time getting it into by backyard because of the stone path situation going through the gate.)

I spent the next 10 months or so (including the dormancy) very happy with the Swardman. This year, I was having to mow twice a week just to keep it mow-able, and if I missed a mow, it would take twice as long to get through the next one (roughly 4 hours instead of 2).

Reel Mowing:




Roughly a month ago, the driveshaft on Swardman broke in the middle of a mow and I had a problem on my hands since I couldn't imagine what my grass would be like if it took a week or more to fix. The guys at Reel Rollers were great and overnighted me a new driveshaft/bearings/everything I needed. I changed it out and was back to mowing but my spirit had been broken and I was getting pretty tired of spending so much time mowing my grass.

I started looking for a riding reel mower, talked to the same local equipment guy and was leaning towards a Deere triplex but was hesitant to spend so much on a mower. I was also going to have to make the gate wider to the backyard and build/buy a shed to house the mower. I also wasn't crazy about spending all the money on the upkeep and reel sharpening that would be required.

Ultimately, I decided to experiment with a rotary with a striping kit (because once you have stripes, it's hard to imagine living without them). I was leaning towards a good riding mower but since it's an experiment, I didn't want to spend "good riding mower money" until I knew whether a rotary could keep it as low as I'd like without scalping.

I ended up going with a Toro Timemaster push mower with a Big League Lawns striping kit. I knew I'd be sacrificing reel cut quality for time savings but I had no real expectation of how drastic the trade off would be.

I'm about a month in to cutting with the rotary, on the lowest setting, and could not be more pleased!

It definitely doesn't cut or stripe quite as well as the Swardman. But it also takes roughly 1 hour to single cut my entire lawn (double cut was required with the reel to get al the stragglers). It's also much easier to "push" and takes nearly no effort at all to walk behind it.

By my estimate, my time mowing has dropped from 5-6 hours per week to 1.5-2 hours.

Takeaway: I knew from experience that the reel mower provides the most premium result and this experiment was to determine whether a rotary mower could provide an acceptable result. For me, the answer is a resounding "yes".

My wife doesn't care enough to notice much difference and it still looks orders of magnitude better than my neighbors with their >3 inch mow and go services - and isn't that really all that we're going for anyway?

Rotary with striping kit:








Footnote: I'm mowing the front at the lowest sitting and the back on the 2nd lowest. It looks like it stripes better at that slightly longer length and I'm thinking about bringing the front up to the same height.

I'm planning to hang on the the Swardman for the dethatcher and verticutter for myself and my friends to use a few times a year as these functions perform unbelievably.


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## ENC_Lawn (Sep 9, 2018)

@Jub Wow...beautiful property and lawn!

Thanks for posting...I actually think its looks just as good "possibly better" than your Swardsman pictures!


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)

@Jub thank you for taking the time to make this fantastic post! I really appreciated you documenting your journey on this, especially since it is somewhat similar to mine. I am probably a year behind you in the process, and have empire zoysia along with a much smaller lawn, but have been pondering going back to a rotary shortly. In my case, I was not as patient as you and after using a push reel mower for about two months, I took the plunge and bought an Allett reel mower. After using this for a short while it immediately became apparent that the lawn was not liking even the highest cut (which was about 1.2 inches) and I needed to go higher. So, now I am looking to probably switch back to a rotary as you have and it is awesome to see that you are still getting such an incredible quality of cut.

On the lowest and second lowest settings you mentioned, do you know the approximate height of cut?


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

With a reel, mowing it at the in between HOC is not good. Empire should be between 0.5-0.7". Worst thing you do to Zoysia is maintain it with a reel at or above 1" .


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)

What if one cant maintain it at <1" @Greendoc ?


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)

> My wife doesn't care enough to notice much difference and it still looks orders of magnitude better than my neighbors with their >3 inch mow and go services - and isn't that really all that we're going for anyway?


This is what I am after as well @Jub ....bang for the buck!


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

What is the factor making it not possible? inability to maintain at <1 suggest a mower not capable combined with excess N and water. I have not known the European, foreign made mowers as being the most suited for Zoysia


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## Lp_chazychaz (Jun 15, 2020)

Great story. You have a great mind for this stuff. Thanks for letting us get a glimpse of your process!


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)

> What is the factor making it not possible?


Scalping in a bumpy lawn😩


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## Jub (Jun 10, 2019)

@ENC_Lawn Thanks man - checked out your renovation project. That's dedication!

@TampaBayFL Thanks! The manual says the lowest is 1.75 inches moving up 0.5 inches for each setting (up to 4.25 inches). I haven't measured these numbers and I think manufacturers aren't known for getting this exactly right, for what it's worth.

@Greendoc You're probably right on HOC, but I've been conflicted on what to believe since I started researching the HOC for Zeon. The local turf grass management department (NC State) recommends keeping it between 2-2.5 inches and all of the product literature seems to agree with that.

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/5143614/zeon-zoysia-brochure-the-turf-grass-group

With that said, all of my neighbors overgrown examples are so fluffy and unappealing to my eye.

I maintained the front at 0.75in with my Swardman and 1.25in in the back. However, I'm quite sure the HOC wasn't accurate to what the machine was set to. I think my grass under the roller bar held it up resulting in closer to 1-1.25inch cut. I never measured the actual grass after a mow.

@Lp_chazychaz My pleasure! Thanks for reading!


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## Spammage (Apr 30, 2017)

TampaBayFL said:


> > What is the factor making it not possible?
> 
> 
> Scalping in a bumpy lawn😩


If you scalp to dirt, it will grow in tighter to the soil, allowing you to use the Allett. You can get by with a rotary on zoysia, but you will need to sharpen your blades frequently to have a "decent" cut.


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## Saints (May 5, 2019)

Did you have any problems with the reel slowing down and stopping with the Swardman and your Zoysia? I ask because I've been having issues with mine and I've changed the belts, tightened cables, rechecked HOC and it's still not cutting. Today was the third time I ended up not finishing the lawn because it just can not cut this grass.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Whatever reel mower you put on a Zeon lawn needs to have a relief angle steeper than factory spec and a bedknife that is similarly sharper than spec. Otherwise, you need to mow in such a way that no more than 1/4 or less is taken off per mowing.


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## Jub (Jun 10, 2019)

@Saints if there were more than 3 days between mows, it would constantly "jam" and I'd have to unjam it with my boot. (I appreciate the stupidity of this move, but I couldn't see a way that even if the reel engaged with my boot there that it would hurt me. I deemed it acceptable risk in order to keep mowing. I also started wearing steel toe work boots to mow for this very reason).

I'd also mention that this did not happen with a freshly sharpened blade, but it wasn't practical to always have one of those on hand and even a fresh blade wouldn't hold an edge for more than a few mows. To be fair though, I didn't backlap, which I think would have helped with this.

I'm sure @Greendoc is correct with his comments about relief angle and >1/4 in removal. I'm not exaggerating when I say that I think mine is currently growing 1/4 in every other day and my yard is simply too large to mow that frequently given my current level of interest and free time


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## BobLovesGrass (Jun 13, 2020)

I think this is a great thread. I image the OP is not the first to go down the reel mower path and face problems and gone back to rotary.
I think his story of being content with rotary is great as are all the tips being offered that would have improved his reel experience.

This discussion may cause some to step back before jumping into reel mowing with too little understanding and help those struggling to make reel mowing work get thru their issues without giving up.

:thumbup: to all


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## TampaBayFL (Jul 24, 2020)

@BobLovesGrass .....Very well said. In my excitement, in my excitement, I feel like I jumped into reel mowing too soon without a full understanding of everything that was required. As with most things, there may not be a free lunch and there are various pros and cons to consider. I am learning these as I go along, and threads this like this are of significant help.


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## HoosierLawnGnome (Sep 28, 2017)

The timemaster with big league striper is a fantastic setup cosmetically. Just take care of the engine.

Reel mowing takes 5x the maintenance and 2x the mowing, IF you have a level lawn.

And, what happens when you get a leaf born fungus that soreads by contact and you need to remove dead material so you dont spread it?


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## Saints (May 5, 2019)

Greendoc said:


> Whatever reel mower you put on a Zeon lawn needs to have a relief angle steeper than factory spec and a bedknife that is similarly sharper than spec. Otherwise, you need to mow in such a way that no more than 1/4 or less is taken off per mowing.


Thanks @Greendoc, I guess this is something that I did not know as this is my first season reel mowing. Just to be clear, it doesn't matter whether it is a home owner or commercial reel mower they would all act this way?

I had been mowing 2-3 times a week and getting it done. This past week I had to go 6 days without a mow due to rain and illness. I did take that into account and raised the HOC on the mower from 3/4" to 1", but I guess that wasn't enough. I've only put down about 1 1/2lbs of N this season so it's not growing too crazy and I didn't think I was taking that much off, but I guess I was wrong. I'll try to finish the rest of the lawn today and check exactly how much I'm taking off.

Anyway, great thread @Jub and thanks for the reply. It's helped me a lot.


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## ABC123 (Jul 14, 2017)

I also cut mine with a rotary at times down to .665in and the cut is rather nice with a sharp blade.

A reel isnt totaly needed to go below 1in but it just cuts a little better like mentioned.


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## Mcluvnn18 (Jun 19, 2020)

@Jub great property man. Would you say the Timemaster is worth the price tag? A little hesitant on buying one myself for that reason.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Saints said:


> Greendoc said:
> 
> 
> > Whatever reel mower you put on a Zeon lawn needs to have a relief angle steeper than factory spec and a bedknife that is similarly sharper than spec. Otherwise, you need to mow in such a way that no more than 1/4 or less is taken off per mowing.
> ...


Does not matter. I quickly know that my Toro GM 1000 needs service when it chokes on a Zeon lawn. When the blades are in proper condition, I can put the mower on grass that has grown to 1"+ and take it back down to its normal 0.6 HOC no problems.


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## Jub (Jun 10, 2019)

Mcluvnn18 said:


> @Jub great property man. Would you say the Timemaster is worth the price tag? A little hesitant on buying one myself for that reason.


Hard to say... perhaps I've been desensitized to mower prices from considering a triplex and high quality rotary riding mowers. $1k felt like the extreme "budget" buy.

My only other push mower was the Honda that I paid about $799 new maybe 5 years ago and it performed great. Only reason I didn't just switch back to that was because I gave it to my brother in law after my Swardman arrived.

There are some little things that add up to being worth more than Honda for me:

HOC adjustment is a dream on the Toro. Honda is closer to a nightmare, especially if you aren't moving it frequently, the wheel levers get kinda locked in place. Poor design IMHO

Handle folding on the Toro is better too.

Toro is wider.

Both crank right up on the first pull.

Toro is reeeeal thirsty.


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## Mcluvnn18 (Jun 19, 2020)

Jub said:


> Mcluvnn18 said:
> 
> 
> > @Jub great property man. Would you say the Timemaster is worth the price tag? A little hesitant on buying one myself for that reason.
> ...


Thanks man, I was looking a Honda as well but it just didn't intrigue me as much as the toro did. I have no issue paying the price of the Toro, for me it's more about convincing the wife 😂


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## Jub (Jun 10, 2019)

@Mcluvnn18 just tell her you need t...... Man, I don't know!


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## SGrabs33 (Feb 13, 2017)

Great write up @Jub. Beautiful property! It takes quite a bit of commitment to maintain that large of a lawn with a small mower. Adding a growth regulator would surely help but that obviously would take some more research and the purchase of a larger sprayer.

Glad your keeping the swardman for verticutting. Also imagine it will be super helpful to have to scalp the zoysia down low in the spring to remove the dormant grass. Perhaps having the reel sharpened right before doing that would help significantly. Also, when you send your reel to get sharpened make sure to ask for that relief angle to be added the the reel if it isn't already.


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## LoCutt (Jul 29, 2019)

Since I own a 62 inch cut triplex as well as a walk-behind, I've tried all sorts of patterns on my lawn. I had David Mellor's "The Lawn Bible" book which explains striping and shows what can be done. I generated lots of comments from neighbors by mowing all one direction... zero stripes. Several asked "How did you mow it?" I spent some time trying to figure out how to mow in college football team names but I admit I never figured it out. I think you'd have to mow the grass and then put the vanity pattern(s) in.

European environmental laws probably mean their lawn equipment is not designed to handle USA lawns which are heavily fertilized. An Allett salesman spent a lot of time talking about this to me, trying to convince me that we'll have similar laws eventually.


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## bernstem (Jan 16, 2018)

Nice to see your experience. Interesting on the issues with reel mowers and Zoysia. I would never have thought it would be that different than Bermuda, for example. I think one of the owners at ReelRollers has a Zoysia lawn and cuts with with a Swardman. Maybe he likes mowing every other day.


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## WT10 (4 mo ago)

Jub said:


> Hey gang, wanted to share my experience with rotary and reel mowing over the last year.
> 
> I moved into a home with very overgrown Zeon Zoysia in Raleigh NC last summer.
> 
> ...


@Jub which stripe kit did you purchase from Big League to fit on the Toro TimeMaster 30inch?


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## Kicker (Apr 5, 2018)

@Jub ,

The only question I have for you is what are you going to do come spring time? Warm season grasses benefit from a hard spring scalp to remove any dormant/dead material. Once scalped you raise your height of cut to allow new green growth. You found this out with your journey to the reel mower.

You said you're cutting the front lawn on the lowest setting. how are you going to scalp below that? 
Do you still have the swardman?


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