# Greensmaster 1000 Honda engine replacement



## BryanThigpen (Aug 19, 2017)

Has anyone changed the Kawasaki engine on a GM1000 out with a Honda engine? Gx-160? I picked up a couple mowers with shot engines. Mowers are in great shape so I'm going to try and adapt a Honda or maybe give the predator "Honda clone" a try. Just the bracket that holds the tensioner pulley won't work. Didn't know if anyone had any pics that they have tried. I will take pictures and keep everyone updated.


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## Ware (Jan 28, 2017)

I'm not aware of anyone here that has done this, but please keep us updated. Finding parts for those FE120 engines is not easy, and they are expensive!


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## metro424 (May 26, 2017)

BryanThigpen said:


> Has anyone changed the Kawasaki engine on a GM1000 out with a Honda engine? Gx-160? I picked up a couple mowers with shot engines. Mowers are in great shape so I'm going to try and adapt a Honda or maybe give the predator "Honda clone" a try. Just the bracket that holds the tensioner pulley won't work. Didn't know if anyone had any pics that they have tried. I will take pictures and keep everyone updated.


I had the same idea. Let me know how far you get as I was going to try to do a toro flex 21 Frankenstein conversion. These Kawasaki engine carbs alone are more expensive than the whole predator unit.


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## BryanThigpen (Aug 19, 2017)

Will do. I actually went ahead n bought the 212cc predator and a double pulley sheave for the belts. Will see how it goes


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## BryanThigpen (Aug 19, 2017)




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## BryanThigpen (Aug 19, 2017)

Took a ton of modifications of the OE belt tensioner/clutch. Factory length v belts won't work because the shaft on the predator is more center and the Kawasaki was towards the front of engine. The shaft of the Kawasaki is a metric so the sheave won't fit. The new one should be here in a couple days and I can measure for my vbelt length. If this works out well. Will definitely be getting a Honda gx160 for my GM1600!!! Should be cutting grass by next weekend


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

BryanThigpen said:


> Took a ton of modifications of the OE belt tensioner/clutch. Factory length v belts won't work because the shaft on the predator is more center and the Kawasaki was towards the front of engine. The shaft of the Kawasaki is a metric so the sheave won't fit. The new one should be here in a couple days and I can measure for my vbelt length. If this works out well. Will definitely be getting a Honda gx160 for my GM1600!!! Should be cutting grass by next weekend


Any updates on this?


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## BryanThigpen (Aug 19, 2017)

Well.... kinda at a standstill. All new engines are ccw shaft rotation. Having a hard time finding a belt that is the right size for a AA "double v" size to use a couple more idlers and reverse the belt for proper drive direction. I had it all hooked up and when I engaged it boom she was moving in reverse... shaft rotation never crossed my mind.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

BryanThigpen said:


> Well.... kinda at a standstill. All new engines are ccw shaft rotation. Having a hard time finding a belt that is the right size for a AA "double v" size to use a couple more idlers and reverse the belt for proper drive direction. I had it all hooked up and when I engaged it boom she was moving in reverse... shaft rotation never crossed my mind.


Have you looked into using a subaru since that is what is on the newer mowers?


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## FTZoysiaNewbie (Apr 14, 2019)

Just a thought... Using 2 idlers can reverse it, unless you can find a way to get a figure 8 in there.


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

Well i just looked up the subaru ex13 and it seems to be discontinued. It did have the ccw rotation so i wonder how the 2013 and newer models are different from its predecessors if the shaft use to rotate cw.


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## FTZoysiaNewbie (Apr 14, 2019)

Per the manual of those newer models with honda motor have a extra Gearbox Assembly. Subaru motor is spinning clockwise.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

Correct. The old FE 120G was a gear reduced engine. The Subaru EX13 was also gear reduced


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## Ral1121 (Mar 19, 2018)

I looked up the specs earlier on the subaru and it was also a ccw rotation. I believe mine has a gear box as well.

What was interesting is only the new gm1000s got the new Honda engine. The gm1600 is still using the subaru.

I am guessing if you wanted to empower with the honda, it would work but you would probably have to purchase the gear box assembly through Tori which i can imagine is pretty costly.


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## BryanThigpen (Aug 19, 2017)

Yea that's my plan to use 2 more pulleys. But it will need the double V belt. So it can pull from both sides of belt. The shortest one available is 49 inches. I'm thinking it's gonna be about 35 or so tops. Maybe one of you guys have some better luck finding one


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## FTZoysiaNewbie (Apr 14, 2019)

buy 4 same size sprockets, chain then adjust to your liking.. Probably need to find a machine shop.


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## Greendoc (Mar 24, 2018)

The belts are tightened against the pulleys to engage the drive. How would the chain drive be engaged and disengaged as needed?


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## FTZoysiaNewbie (Apr 14, 2019)

Same concept as belt system. Depends on how deep your pockets are! But you can custom make a chain tensioner or buy one. Just need to figure out how much force it takes to keep a running chain steady and add couple newtons to find the right spring. Or you can make one without spring. Probably best to buy Gearbox Assembly. Try https://www.amazon.com/AlveyTech-Re...MX6MJHFFQYW&psc=1&refRID=Y9W5S6VYRMX6MJHFFQYW and find a way to install it where the current idler pully sits. FYI, with that AlveyTech you can setup cable to do backlapping :lol:.


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## FTZoysiaNewbie (Apr 14, 2019)

metro424 said:


> BryanThigpen said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone changed the Kawasaki engine on a GM1000 out with a Honda engine? Gx-160? I picked up a couple mowers with shot engines. Mowers are in great shape so I'm going to try and adapt a Honda or maybe give the predator "Honda clone" a try. Just the bracket that holds the tensioner pulley won't work. Didn't know if anyone had any pics that they have tried. I will take pictures and keep everyone updated.
> ...


Anyone thought about doing a Stage 1 or Stage 2 even Stage 5 mod on their Frankenstein mower? CVT transmission?


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## Biggylawns (Jul 8, 2019)

Did you ever get this to work?

Excuse my ignorance, but couldn't you just twist the engine belt 180* causing a directional rotation to the "proper" way? It would cause more belt wear but it should work. Then, just hook up the remaining belts properly.


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## Bmossin (May 31, 2018)

Reviving this...would this be an option?

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_304_304


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## cutigers08 (Aug 16, 2019)

I am obtaining a mower with a possible bad engine. Apparently Toro sells a conversion kit, or did at one time. Haven't found a price but it looks fairly in depth. Can't imagine it would be more economical that fully rebuilding a FE120. 
https://www.toro.com/en/parts/partdetails?id=50919


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## Bmossin (May 31, 2018)

I did not see that before...I reached out to my local toro turf dealer

139-5638 $2375.98

138-2143 $1799.98


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## cutigers08 (Aug 16, 2019)

holy smokes. thats quite a few fully rebuilt fe120s!


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## GadgetVictim (Oct 30, 2018)

Hi Guys,

I've been following this post because I'm also interested in changing the Kawasaki fe120d on my Flex21, to either a Honda GX160 or GX120.

Per @BryanThigpen's posting, I assume there was no issue on the relative measurements of the 4 mounting bolt on the engine side fitting into the original 4 monting holes on the mower chassis. Also, I gathered that center displacement of the shaft's centerning after mounting could be easy compensated via belt sizing/tensioning.

However, issues that concern me wrt the shaft is it's ccw rotation, and metric diameter spec. Was the Fe120d shaft diameter 20mm? Not sure, but think Honda may have 20mm drive shafts for their gx120 and gx160.

I looked up the parts list of the Kawasaki kit (139-5638 $2375.98) referenced by @Bmossin. I noted that, included in the kit was a Grearbox assembly attachment for the Honda. Not sure about exact function this gearbox provides (e.g.; reversal of rotation, speed reduction, etc.)

Found Toro document dated 20 Jul 2020, containing listing of all Toro engine replacement kits for both Kawasaki and Subaru engines for Toro models: GM1000, Flex21, and Flex2120:

https://www.toro.com/getpub/183587

I checked conversion kits parts listing for both Flex21 and Flex2120, but did not find a gearbox assembly attachment on the Honda engine for either.

Anyone know why there's a difference? My wishful thinking is the shaft rotation is not an issue. But, I can't logically understand why you would need a gearbox assembly for the GM1000, and none for the Flexs?

Anyone, know the price for each of these kits.
Gadget


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## LoCutt (Jul 29, 2019)

I replaced a 5HP B&S with a GX160 on my 25 inch cut McLane. The GX160 is a great engine, but I believe the GX120 would have done the job and saved some money. This was several years ago, and today's prices may have altered the decision criteria.


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## GadgetVictim (Oct 30, 2018)

Bmossin said:


> Reviving this...would this be an option?
> 
> https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_304_304


@Bmossin Have you given up or still working this conversion? That Honda GX160 seem to have all the right specs (2:1 reducton, ccw rotation. and metrics shaft diameter). 
I was concerned about the Honda's shaft dismeter listed at 22mm. (Thats another thing I've discovered, is that on most of the knockoff Hondas listed on ebay and alibaba exp, if the shaft diameter not listed on their listing specs, they are most likely 20mm.)
I've checked the web to look up the diameter for the Fe120d, but not been able to find it listed anywhere. Guess, I need to buy a micrometer and measure my fe120d's diameter.
Would like to hear an update from you on this. 
Thanks in advance, Gaget


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## Bmossin (May 31, 2018)

@GadgetVictim What I linked to nothrern still has a counter clockwise shat rotation. When I was looking at my FE120, the output shaft rotates clockwise when I pull the engine...so no real solution.


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## GadgetVictim (Oct 30, 2018)

Bmossin said:


> @GadgetVictim What I linked to nothrern still has a counter clockwise shat rotation. When I was looking at my FE120, the output shaft rotates clockwise when I pull the engine...so no real solution.


That's strange. Below provides a screenshot I just took of the Fe120d spec sheet, where it shows ccw rotation wrt pto.


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## Bmossin (May 31, 2018)

@GadgetVictim I have not gotten deeper into it but I believe there is a gearbox on there that is doing the clockwise rotation.

In the kits from Toro to switch to a Honda, that gearbox would then cause the output shaft from that gearbox to rotate clockwise.


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## GadgetVictim (Oct 30, 2018)

You're right, Looks like the 2 gearing in the kit results in a change in rotation from ccw to cw.

Okay, now I understand where my confusion was. When talking fe120 Kawasaki engine for the GM1000, I was thinking that the kawasaki model numbers for both the GM1000 and Flex21 where the same. And, they are not the same. Kawasaki model for GM1000 is fe120g, while the Flex21 is fe120d. Small difference in model numbers, but big difference in shaft rotation direction. CW vs CCW.

*NOTE: I had to edit this post several times, because I realized that the conversion kit diagram posted was for the GM1000 conversion, and I was too focused on my own efforts to convert the Flex21. There were too many moving variables that I failed to notice in a timely manner.

If you note the below screenshot of Honda's conversion kit for the Flex21, you will notice that there is no gear box shown to the output shaft of the Honda engine. I previously noticed it's absence when compared to the GM1000 kit. I thought then, that I was just overlooking something. NOW, I understand why.

Now, since my mower is a Flex21, with a fe120d engine, I have the shaft turnning in the counter clockwise direction. This would be the same shaft rotational direction as all the candidate Honda replacement engines(i.e.; GX160, GX120). So, hopefully no big show stoppers for replacing the Fe120d on the Flex21.

However, still need to focus on resolving other required funtions (2:1 reduction, pulley/belt fit/reuse, etc.) and specs (chassis size/fit, shaft diameter, metric vs standard. etc)for the engine, and other supporting hardware.


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## Spurge Farmer (Oct 1, 2020)

I'm so confused.

I run a golf course, as a result I have a bunch of Greens Masters. I have 3 retired GM1000s (one of my favorite models) with FE120d engines that smoke. I want to take one home and put a Honda GX on it.

Will it work? Is it complicated?

I've read this post many times and seem to get more confused each time.

Your help would be appreciated.


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## Bmossin (May 31, 2018)

@Spurge Farmer i know it will not work for my GM1000. Lift up the belt guard then pull the starter rope slowly so you can see the pulley and shaft off of the engine turning when you pull. On my GM1000, that pulley rotates clockwise...on a gx120,160,200 that shaft rotates counter clockwise. If you got it all hooked up, like at the beginning of this post, the machine will move in reverse because of the counter clockwise rotation.


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## Spurge Farmer (Oct 1, 2020)

@Bmossin Thanks for you help, I was afraid that was what I was reading. I just keep looking at the spec's of both engines and trying to convince myself to go for it. I guess I'll try to find someone to tear down the tired old Kawasaki.

Thanks again.


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## Bmossin (May 31, 2018)

Spurge Farmer said:


> @Bmossin Thanks for you help, I was afraid that was what I was reading. I just keep looking at the spec's of both engines and trying to convince myself to go for it. I guess I'll try to find someone to tear down the tired old Kawasaki.
> 
> Thanks again.


I bought rings to tear down and do mine....will see if I actually do though. I've never done a full on rebuild.


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## Spurge Farmer (Oct 1, 2020)

@Bmossin 
You can do it!

I've got a few if you want to practice on one. :lol: Seriously I have 3 smokers. I'm taking one to a small engine guy on Monday. I'll let you know how it goes.



Bmossin said:


> Spurge Farmer said:
> 
> 
> > @Bmossin Thanks for you help, I was afraid that was what I was reading. I just keep looking at the spec's of both engines and trying to convince myself to go for it. I guess I'll try to find someone to tear down the tired old Kawasaki.
> ...


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## Bmossin (May 31, 2018)

@Spurge Farmer ask him if there is anything special or crazy you have to make sure you get right about teardown and rebuild


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## Spurge Farmer (Oct 1, 2020)

@Bmossin Will do. I have not taken them yet. I decided to take all 3. I'm going to keep the best one, sell the second best one, and keep the worst one as a parts donor. I did take a buffalo blower to him and he seems very knowledgeable and professional. Seems to know a lot about the fe120.



Bmossin said:


> @Spurge Farmer ask him if there is anything special or crazy you have to make sure you get right about teardown and rebuild


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## 2xjtn (Nov 29, 2017)

BryanThigpen said:


> Has anyone changed the Kawasaki engine on a GM1000 out with a Honda engine? Gx-160? I picked up a couple mowers with shot engines. Mowers are in great shape so I'm going to try and adapt a Honda or maybe give the predator "Honda clone" a try. Just the bracket that holds the tensioner pulley won't work. Didn't know if anyone had any pics that they have tried. I will take pictures and keep everyone updated.


Wish you lived closer. I just bought 4 older GM1000's from a golf course for $600. All have running Kawi FE-120's, but they all need reels/bedknives, bearings, etc. I have 2 GM1000's in really good shape, so bough these for parts. But yes, the FE-120's have a special reversing and reduction gearbox on them. You can buy the parts/conversion kit, but it's expensive. Better to send a letter off to a bunch of golf courses around to see if they have any older GM1000's around.


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## Bmossin (May 31, 2018)

@2xjtn I shot you a PM.


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